The He-Goats Horn Broken. OR, INNOCENCY Elevated Against Insolency & Impudent falsehood.  
In Answer to two Books against the People of God called Quakers.  
The one entitled, A FULLER DISCOVERY, which is stuffed with such a multitude of lies, Slanders, and perverting the Truth, as the Like hath not been extant: The Authors of which are John Horn, Thomas Moor Senior, and Thomas Moor Junior.  
And the other Book is falsely called TRUTH'S TRIUMPH by JOHN HORN.  
Which are Answered for the Information of the People, and the clearing of the servants of God, and the way of Truth to the simple hearted from the lies, Delusions and Fallacies that have proceeded from the Spirit of Antichrist and Blasphemy, in these ●●n aforesaid, who Profess themselves Ministers of Christ, but are proved Ministers of Satan and Unrighteousness.  
By a witness of Christ and his work against all the Works of Darkness. G. W.  
In vain have the Wicked exalted their Horn against the Righteous.  
LONDON, Printed for Robert Wilson, at the Sign of the Blackhead Eagle and Windmill, in martin's near Aldersgate, 1660.   

A PREFACE.  
OH! how great hath the wrath of the Dragon that old Serpent, who is the Father of lies been against the Seed which God hath Raised up and endued with his Power from on High, and yet this Seed hath Dominion over all the strength and wrath of the wicked One, to lift up a Standard against him even when he Appears and breaks forth as a flood against the Lord and his Anointed; against whom no Iniquity nor Enmity can prevail or Prosper, and this hath the Lord God of Hosts made us Witnesses of to his Eternal Praise, that it is no marvel to us that the Generation of Vipers and Serpents, (who are Warring for the Kingdom of Darkness) do put forth their stings, and cast out their venom against us, since that in the Power of God we are brought to tread upon them and their deceits: and if the Readers hereof have a single eye to the Lord in his Light in them, they'll see what a Body of Wickedness and Enmity hath Appeared in these our Opposers, viz. in John Horn, Thomas Moor the Elder, and the Younger who have pleaded and much Contended for Sin, which is the devil's Work and for their wearing Cuffs, and ribbons, and for tithes which the Ministers of the New Testament pleaded not for, nor ever owned such Vanities as Cuffs and ribbons, &c. So that all sober minded People who Love the Light of the Lord in them and his Truth, may soon see what Spirit these are of, that plead for and uphold such deceits as these men aforesaid have done. And let the witness of God in all Consciences be minded by which the Spirits may be tried and discovered, whether they be of God or no; and this Light of Christ in your Consciences being minded, and you (who have a desire to know the Lord) waiting in the Light, it will bring your minds into stability to feel God's Power and Teachings, where the Confusion cannot prevail over you, for your Confusion and Darkness is among the Teachers and People, who are as the Waters that are unstable where the Whorish Spirit Rules: And woe is to such who are the Inhabitants of the Earth, and of the Sea, unto whom the Devil is come down and hath great wrath because he knoweth that he hath but a short time, Rev. 12. 12.   

A BRIEF answer To the Book Called, A Fuller Discovery &c.  
EVil men and Seducers wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived, and the wise Men are turned backward, and the Diviners made Mad, 2 Tim. 3. 13. Isai. 44. 25. who have striven to overthrow the Truth as these men, viz. John Horn, Thomas Moor Senior, and his Son Thomas Moor have done, that their impudence, folly, and falsehood more Appears than ever, who have evidently showed themselves to be such as walk with Slanders, and have made lies their Refuge, who are such as the Prophet called brass, and Iron, who are all corrupters, Jer. 6. 28. which I shall here briefly show, both for the clearing of the Truth, and us the Witnesses of it, and for the satisfying of the Simple that they may not be Corrupted with the lies, and Corrupt Doctrines of these the Truth's Enemies, who whilst they Profess Liberty and Redemption to others, and pretend a denial of the Priests of the Nation, they themselves are Children of Corruption in Bondage to the Devil (that old liar) his works which many both Priests and Professors have largely Appeared in against God's Truth and work in his People: For notwithstanding this J. Horn and Thomas Moor, have acknowledged themselves to be neglecters of Christ, and abusers of his Truth, yet still they proceed in the same Iniquity; and notwithstanding John Horn in page 55. of this their Fuller Discovery so Called, (where he had laid down a falsehood in his other Book) now Confesseth himself subject to forgetfulness And over sights, and so did in his forgetfulness write, &c. and in Page 66. they acknowledge that they have their share too much in the Pollutions, viz. of the Nation in General, and in Pag. 63. whereas John Horn had palpably belied me about a Passage he had Learned out of a Priests Queries in Cambridge, he now Confesseth himself Faulty and craves forgiveness, he having been too rash in taking that upon trust (which he Falsely charged me with) as they acknowledge; and yet how often have these Men accounted us Called Quakers false Prophets, Deceivers, liars, Accursed; as also they have accounted us Vipers and Scorpions, Cockatrices, not to be Charmed, and like the Locusts out of the Bottomless pit whose sting is in their tails, which Revilings the Reader may Judge what Spirit they came from, since they have craved forgiveness of us for belying us: 
* Though we own that which brings them to confess their Lying, and Faults and can forgive, but we cannot own their Dissembling and feiguedness in it.  and yet how often have they denied that they have belied us in their Books may be seen; but what Hypocrites are they to Profess themselves Christ's Ministers, and be found in Lying as they are, and what is their Confession worth when they continue in their evil, & as an Addition to their many former lies, Forgeries, and their former Rashness and abuses against the Truth they have falsely charged us with, and laid down these things following against us called Quakers, which we deny and return back upon Jóhn Horn, and both the Tho, Moor's aforesaid, who are the inventors of these lies, Slanders, and Absurdities, which were never owned by us.  
Their Lies and Slanders in their Epistle are these, viz.  
1. They charge us with Maintaining, that that body of flesh in which Christ suffered and bare our sins, and which rose again is not a Body.  
2. That the Blood of Jesus Christ, is not of the Foundation of our Faith, and that our Faith is not Faith in Christ's Blood.  
3. That the Body of his Flesh in which he Suffered, we deny to remain.  
4. That the lower parts of the Earth into which Christ descended, and the Heavens into which he again ascended, are no local places, but some Conditions or Conceits in men.  
5. That neither the Souls nor Bodies of the Wicked shall rise again to judgement.  
This with several other Lies J. Horn and Thomas Moor, charge us (called Quakers) with maintaining or asserting insome Queries I sent to them; when as I only queried them, to try their belief in these things without asserting them; so what unreasonable men these are is easy to see, who distinguish not between Questions and Assertions, who proceed in their lies thus, 6. That we agree with Himneus and Philetus that said the Resurrection is already past.  
7. That Christ came not to Redeem men from out of the natural bodily Death.  
8. That such Faith as that of the Elect mentioned, Rom. 8. 33, 34, 35. is by our Doctrines to be rooted up.  
9 That by our Doctrine, Christ is not the Author and procurer of all good to men, both natural and spiritual.  
10. That we deny Justification by a Righteousness imputed to us.  
11. That to endeavour to detect and make manifest the delusions of any, & to preserve people from them, is a being impatient under, and raging against God's judgements, which they falsely charge us (called Quakers) with maintaining: And with maintaining.  
12. That these Teachers whose Hearers do slight and neglect the Truth Preached by them, and remain slothful, formal Covetous, are false Prophets; whenas the words were not so spoken by us, but we spoke rather in particular against them, and such as being false Prophets and Hypocrites, who being neglecters of Christ, and abusers of the Truth themselves, as they have confessed they have not profited the People.  
Again these abusers of the Truth, viz.  
13. J. Horn, and T. Moor, charge us falsely, with plainly denying judgement after the natural Death and with denying and jeering at Christ that Holy and Innocent man that was born of the Virgin Mary, as having the form and body of a man.  
14. That we set up another thing in his stead, viz. an imaginary seed within every man.  
15. That we plead for a Christ, without anybody of man distinct from others, or out of them, but a certain seed with an imaginary flesh and blood, dying and bearing sin in every man, having no other body but what is in some men dying, yea in every man in its time.  
16. That our Christ hath been always dying and rising in men, from the beginning of the World, and so will be to the end.  
17. That we make nothing of the coming again of Christ, but scoffs at him that died 1600 years ago.  
18. That we account Christ's Death and Resurrection but a shadow.  
19 That the seed (which we speak of in men) is but a conceited Spirit that is within them, with a conceited flesh and blood in them too; of which they say, such an Idol was scarce ever in any Generation of men set up before. Wherein J. Horn, and these two Moors have both lied shamefully, and blasphemed; for the seed which we spoke of, is Christ, whom the Apostles Preached which the promise was to, in them; and this is not an Idol as they have blasphemed, nor his flesh and blood a conceited and an imagined thing, but our meat and drink, without the eating and drinking of which a man hath no life in him.  
20. Again J. H. and T. M. falsely accuse us, with maintaining that our Christ in all the reality of his body with his flesh and blood is wholly within us, sensibly bearing our sins, though not willingly.  
21. That the coming of Christ to raise the dead bodies of all that sleep in Jesus, &c. and the Resurrection of the dead, and judgement afterdeath, is by us altogether denied.  
22. That whatsoever is said of the true Christ or of his Church in the Scripture, we apply to a false Christ and to ourselves.  
23. That we come in our own Name and Authority boasting of ourselves, and witnessing to and of ourselves, and obtruding things upon men, not by and in the Light and evidence of the Spirit.  
24. That we say, our sayings are better than the sayings of the holy Spirit in the Scriptures.  
25. That George Fox said in Bury at Goal of one Disbrough Brother-in-law to Joseph Hagger being a Tradesman in London, that he was Priest and Hireling and took tithes; which with the rest is an odious lie and slander, and denied by George Fox, as also are these, viz.  
26. That we count ourselves Lords, and disdain to have any over us, and revile, and likely would destroy if in our power at our pleasure.  
27. And that our principle leads to it.  
28. That I wilfully played the Jesuit or Sophister to delude the ignorant with seeming like terms.  
29. That Christopher Wade clearly proved a whole dozen of notorious lies against George Fox.  
30. And that in my Answer I give the go-by most egregiously, and in none of them reproves C. Wade. Which also are filthy lies against both G. F. and me, as may be seen in my Book entitled Truth defending the Quakers; so that these things here mentioned against us called Quakers, which John Horn and T. Moor have accused us with, which are inserted in their Epistle, I return back upon them as wicked lies and slanders proceeding from the envious Spirit of the wicked one in them, and yet they are but a few in comparison of many more which they have uttered against us which we are clear of and more of their lies and slanders in their Book are as followeth, viz.  
31. That some of us say we are Christ.  
32. That we cast mists and clouds in our expressions.  
33. That we turn Scripture sayings into fables, perverting the whole Scripture to a corrupt sense.  
34. That by dead in Christ, we mean but the spiritually dead in some, some fancied death, sleeping in him, & the Trumpet, and shout, and Resurrection all Allegorical.  
35. 36. That we are deniers of the Resurrection Preached by the Apostles. And that all men may see us to be so.  
37. That we count the Preaching of the Cross foolishness, and turn it into a Fable or Allegory.  
38. That we confess not Christ come in the flesh, but make him a figure of a spiritual wickedness, or mysterious deceit that works in them that perish.  
39 40. That we turn the words of Truth into a lie. Not only neglecting, but wholly trampling the true Christ under our feet.  
41. That we deny the God above.  
In these slanders also with many others against us, have they showed themselves to be frequent and common liars, all which we return back upon them as things never owned by us; which if they further assay to make them good, we shall know further how to make our defence, that our innocency may be clear from them, as we are clear in the sight of God: But in these they have but done by our words, as they use to do by the Scriptures of Truth, perverted them, and raised lies from them, which is the manner of their Preaching. And now to some of J. Horns and T. Moor's Doctrines in their Epistle, wherein they have belied and grossly perverted the Truth, with their false constructions and inferences, as to our saying, that the seed of God which is Christ, wherever he is known in such a low measure as a seed that suffers, and is burdened in man by corruption, there he desires to be free from the burden of sin, and always to do his father's will, and this seed the Power reaches to where it is begotten, and in the Power it arises in them that believe in the Light for their Redemption, to which J. H. and T. M. Scornfully say of this seed, Christ which we speak of, that he hath not ceased from sin in them, nor can do in all things his father's will, but needs a Power to reach to him where he is begotten: And that we represent him as one not able to do his father's will in some men. To which I reply, that Christ cannot in all things do his father's will, is their own words and not ours, neither does it follow from what we said, for his desiring to do his father's will, in that suffering state does no more argue that he is unable to do it, than when he prayed to the Father, not my will but thine be done who could do nothing without the Father; as also the Heir as long as he is a Child differeth nothing from a Servant, though he be Lord of all, Gal. 4. 1. and Christ came into the World to do his father's will, which is the sanctification of them that believe, which he desired to do before it was done, and as for the Power reaching the seed which so much these men have scoffed at, and counted what we said of it confused stuff, in page 63. They have showed themselves ignorant of the seed of God, which the promise is to, and that they never knew the work of that Power which reaches that seed, as also they are ignorant of the Scriptures, for it is written, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive Power & Riches, wisdom and Strength, and Honour, and Glory, and Blessing, Revel. 5. 12. so that they might as well have scoffed at the Angels of God, who spoke these words, as at us; and have said that the Power that reaches to the seed is Christ, and then Christ is worthy to receive Christ, as also they have done in like manner in their scorn, in page 63. wherein they have showed their gross ignorance of the several manifestations of Christ, the seed in his People, who are of the seed of Abraham, which Christ took upon him to redeem his own, and to bring to his own Power and promise, which he receives of the Father. And our saying that this Seed which is Christ where he suffers, and is burdened in man by corruption, there he desires to be free from the burden of sin, does not argue as falsely as these men infer, that it cannot be said of the Seed of God that in it is no sin, for Christ hath suffered by men's sins and been pressed with them and born them, Amos 2. 13. Ezek. 6. 9 and yet in him is no sin; and if these men were not past feeling, they might feel how the Spirit of the just in them, they have often grieved, burdened and afflicted by their own sins, and yet in that Spirit there is no sin, but in them who resist it.  
J. Horn and Thomas Moor, say their Christ by that his death once suffered, and in his Resurrection in that his Body, &c. hath overcome Death and the Devil, slain the enmity, and taken out of the way all that was contrary to them, redeemed them from the Curse of the Law.  
I Answer, Herein have they stolen the Saints words, which they are out of the like of, for if the enmity were taken out of the way, Sin would not be their natural heritage as they have pleaded for it, and they would not have uttered so many lies and falsehoods as they have done, for one of which, J. Horn hath craved forgiveness; and if all that's contrary to them be taken out of their way, than its evident that sin and the Nations pollutions are not contrary to them, for they have confessed themselves too much to have a share in them, and that they are abusers of the Truth.  
And to that, 1 John 4. 17. as he is so are we in this World, J. H. and T. M. give their meaning, and say, as Christ is unknown, despised, hated, persecuted in his Doctrine, and judged by any of the World so are we.  
Answ. In this have they apparently lied, for Christ was persecuted to Death of the World, but so are not J. horn not T. Moor, neither are they unknown of the World as Christ was, for Christ was never known to Preach in a Steeplehouse by an hourglass for tithes, or so much in the Year in Leiw of them, like the Parish Priests and Deceivers, who are out of the steps of the true Ministers, who walked after Christ's example, & not after the hireling priest's example, who Preach for hire, and gifts, and reward as these men do: And rather than J. horn will freely suffer by the World as Christ did, take heed that he fall not to the Common-prayer-book.  
And to our calling J. Horn a Priest, he says, if we mean he is a Priest of the order of Aaron, a Levitical Priest, we say evidently false.  
Answ. If he be not a Priest of the order of Aaron, than he plainly appears to be a false Priest, seeing that in Page 70. he hath pleaded for his taking tithes, as neither repugnant to God's Law nor man's; as also his practices therein he instances, that the Priests had their several suburbs and Quarters, when as they that had these were of the Levitical Priesthood, Numb. 35. Which Priesthood J. Horn hath plainly denied himself to be one of, and yet pleads for tithes which pertained to that Priesthood which Christ ended, and disannulled the commandment which gave the tithes, Heb. 7. So what hypocrisy is this J. H. in, who claims a right to tithes as both being according to the Law of God and Man, and yet upon that account denies to be called Priest, when as the Law of God calls them Priests that took tithes, and does not the Law of Man the like? And does not the Book of commonprayer call them Priests?  
So that upon this account may J. Horn be called a false Priest, he claiming a right to tithes as by the Law of God, when as the service of the Tabernacle (for which they were given to the priests of levy) he is out of Numb. 18. As also he is guilty of the false Priests practices, who Preached for hire and divined for money Mica 3. 11.  
J. H. and T. Moor the elder and the younger, say, that the false Apostles (it seems by what the Apostles writes of them 2 Cor. 11. 12.) they use to boast of their free Preaching, and in Page 71. They say, that the false Apostles were never the better for their Paeaching freely but the worse.  
Answ. Herein have they plainly perverted that of 2 Cor. 11. 12. for there is no speech of the false Apostles Preaching freely; see the malice and envy of these accusers, how they envy the practice of the true Apostles and Ministers, which was to Preach freely and not for filthy lucre, (Mat. 10. 1 Pet. 5.) Which they have not yet proved the false Apostles did, as they have affirmed, for they ran into covetousness, and were deceitful workers, having the form of godliness, but denying the Power, 2 Tim. 3. And in their affirming that the false Apostles Preached freely, here they have set the false Apostles above themselves; for neither J. H. nor Thomas Moor Senior have Preaching freely to boast of, whilst they are settled in Parishes, and taking tithes and Gifts as the other Priests do, whom they have called greedy dumb dogs, strong to appetite, &c. in their Pamphlet called a Brief Discovery, &c.  
T. Moor's Principle Page 2. That sin is in the believer as a natural heritage from Adam while he is in this mortal body; and to prove it, he brings, Rom. 7. 17, 20. for I know that in me that is, in my flesh dwelleth no good thing; and that it was not he that did sin, but sin in him, and saith there's his natural heritage.  
To which I Answer, Herein hath he wrested the Scripture, for Paul did not say that sin was in him as a natural heritage from Adam while he was in the mortal body, neither did he own it as his natural heritage, for while it was in his flesh it was his burden, (after that he was turned to the Spirit) so he waited till it was done away, that he could witness the Creature delivered from sin and become new in Christ Jesus, who redeems out of the first Adam's state and nature.  
And where we laid down this as T. Moor's Principle, that their nature is restored in Christ, and that their nature is a filthy nature, and Christ took upon him their nature, this they say is falsely expressed and perverted, and yet J. H. and T. M. a little after say thus, viz. That our nature, kind or being, as in us, not in Christ, is corrupt and filthy in itself, yet Christ took upon him our nature, not as it is filthy in us by sin in it, &c. and they say that we might as well have taxed the Apostle of confusion for saying men by nature do the things contained in the Law, Rom. 2. 14. And yet by nature are Children of wrath, Ephes. 2. 3.  
To which I say, we may justly tax these men with confusion indeed, but not the Apostle; for here they cannot discern between the sinful nature and the pure nature; for the nature of Christ is pure, so that it's not their nature, for their nature is filthy, and therefore it is not in Christ, and their bringing that of Rom. 2. 14. and Ephes. 2. 3. together to prove their confusion, showeth, that they cannot discern between that nature, by which men do the things contained in the Law, and that nature by which men break the Law, and are Children of wrath, but make as if it were all one: But be sure they are out of that nature by which some did the things contained in the Law since their nature is filthy, and by it they cannot do these things contained in the Law but plead against that state, and for sin to continue in them as their natural heritage while in the mortal body.  
Again J. H. and T. M. Say, that the Apostle saith not, that Christ in them is the mystery, but the riches of this mystery is Christ in men 
* which is as much as to say, not Christ in them, but Christ in men; and that his riches is not the possession; what folly is this?  the hope of glory not the possession of glory, which is not to be enjoyed till his glorious appearing, when these mediums now in use will cease.  
Answ. So herein would these deceivers put Christ the possession of glory a far off, as a thing not to be enjoyed by the Saints till after their decease, till which time also we know they put Christ's glorious appearing afar off: But then how was Christ all and in all his believers, and how were they changed from glory to glory, and had the heavenly treasure in earthen vessels, 2 Cor. 4. 7. and 3. 18. if they did not possess his glory, when the riches of the glory of this mystery was Christ in the Saints ' the hope of glory? What was not these riches the possession in them too? How grossly do these men wrong the Saints and their words in counting them not possessors of the glory before their decease, when as the Saints even when they were in the pure hope, then rejoice they with joy unspeakable and full of glory, 1 Pet. 1. 8. and again after these men aforesaid have so wronged the Saints in counting them not possessors of the glory while here, they go about to prove their corrupt Principle, viz. That sin is a natural heritage in believers so long as they are here; so that by these men's account, the Saints had not Christ in them as their possession, but sin as their possession, or natural heritage while they lived, which nowhere the Scripture saith; how sadly have they herein wronged the Saints, and blasphemed against the Tabernacle of God, which is with his people in whom he dwells.  
J. H. and T. M. Tell of an instrumental and outward Object, or a medium of faith which they say, is the holy Scriptures, and then they say the last and most inmost and absolute Object is God in Christ, 1 Tim. 4. 10. Rom. 4. 24. And so they say the Object of faith is one.  
I Answer, If the Scriptures be the outward Object or medium of faith, and God in Christ be the most inmost and absolute Object of faith, then how is the Object of faith one? What is the Scriptures without and God one? Or are the Scriptures God? Here's confusion indeed, and where does the Scripture say it is the outward Object and medium of faith? Here these men are come under that confusion they have charged us with (as according to their own account) for in Page 59 they charge us with counfounding the Author with the medium, which they call a piece of confusion, when in Page 6. they confess that Jesus Christ is both the Object of faith, and living and enlivening medium by which any comes to God and believe in God, Heb. 7. 25▪ 1 Pet. 1. 21. so that in Page 8. they say true in saying that we did wisely to say that their darkness and confusion may easily be seen, for so it may, who after in their false inference are telling of some being guilty of the imperfection of wit-lesness, because they have in them their guts that be witless, and thus their lightness and folly appears.  
J. H. and T. M. accuse us that the true Christ we say p. 10. we desire not the knowledge of; In which they have shamefully belied us, for our words are these, that you look for a Christ like yourselves, but that he hath no blood in his Body, as you imagine whom we desire not the knowledge of, for such a Christ they look for, as they cannot prove the true Christ to be, in their Affirming him to have a Bod▪ of Flesh and bones in the Heavens without blood in it, as many have heard them publicly Affirm, which now they would deceitfully deny that they so Affirmed and say. p. 26. that they determined not that his Body is a Body of Flesh and bones, in Heaven without blood, and so they have Preached and published that which they determined not, but were doubtful of; what deceit and confusion is here? And how do they leave men in uncertainties; J. H. and T. M. p. 11. say; That a man may be a sinner by having sin in him, and yet not sin, and to prove it bring Rom. 7. 20. Paul did not the Evil, &c. To which I say, that their words are as much as if they had said, that a sinner sins not; What folly is this? which that of Rom. 7. 20. proves not, for though there was that in Paul which was of God that sinned not, yet when he did the Evil which he would not, than he sinned in doing it. Again these Diviners who are thus Confounded say, he that doth Righteousness is Righteous, as God is Righteous, yea as Christ is Righteous, not because there is no sin in him, but because Christ is made to him of God his Righteousness, and in him he is Righteous, as Christ is Righteous.  
Answ. What then, hath Christ sin in him if a man be Righteous as Christ is Righteous when he hath sin in him? this their Assertion would charge both Christ and them that are in him, to have sin in them, which is Blasphemy against Ghrist; For in him is no Sin, and he is made manifest to destroy Sin.  
And to our Question, which was, what one Sin or sins can they lay to Paul or James or John's charge, or to any of them, that they were not perfectly freed from before their Decease; Let them prove some sin which was not destroyed in any of those, before their Decease, or for ever be silent from pleading for sin, or accusing the Righteous as they have done; as also we asked them what sin can they prove that Nathaniel had in him, when he had no guile in him? To which J. Horn, and T. Moor Reply page 13. That it is enough that we believe Paul, James and John that they had Sin, and did in many things offend, though we cannot name their Particular offences, as it is to believe multitudes to have died, though we know not of what Particular Diseases, &c. and in page 20. They tell us we may as well say, seeing the Scripture Witnesses that the Children of Korah died, not in the Judgement that befell Korah and his Company, what Disease they died of, and if they cannot prove that they died of some Disease, than they are Confuted if they believe and hold that they died, they say.  
Answ. Here any Impartial Reader may see how these men are Confounded, who have accused the Saints to have Sin in them, and to offend in many things while they lived upon Earth, and now cannot prove any one sin, that they were not perfectly freed from before their Decease, or which was not destroyed in them before their Decease, so that here all may see how Ignorantly they have accused the Saints, and how far short of proving their Assertion they are, for any of the Saints confessing any of their present states or failings, does not at all prove that they were offenders, or had sin in them, so long as they lived, as these said accusers would have it: and as to their saying, that multitudes have died though they know not of what Particular diseases, and if they cannot prove that they died of some disease, than they are confuted if they believe that they died; to that I say, thus, their comparison will not hold but is foolish, neither will it follow from what we propounded, for it is evident that multitudes have died, as it is appointed for men once to die: But they have not so proved that all the Saints were Sinners, or had sin in them, so long as they lived according to their Assertion. And to their saying that David implies Sins in them though forgiven and covered in whose Spirit is no guile, Psa. 32. 1, 2. here they have added their own words unto David's, for he spoke of such unto whom the Lord imputeth not Iniquity, whose sin is covered and in whose Spirit is no guile, nor can any say that their sin is thus covered when they sin, or that it shall not be imputed to them while they are guilty of it, for does not the Light of Christ discover in man his sin and reprove him for it, when he is guilty of it? They that know it can tell though it's hid from these said accusers.  
Again I. H. and T. M. say David saith no man living is so free from sin as to be justified, if God enter into judgement with them, and to prove it bring, Psa. 143. 2.  
Answ. This is a lie against David, for these are not his words, he said not that no man living is so free from sin as to be justified, &c. For when the enemy had persecuted David's Soul, and had Smitten his Life down to the Ground, he said enter not into judgement with thy Servant O Lord, for in thy sight shall no man living be Justified: Which relates to that state wherein the Enemy hath Power, that the life is Smitten down to the Ground, and man cannot be Justified, but thorough the death to that which judgement is to: So this Scripture they have brought proves no more that the Saints are not freed from sin in this life, than it does that they are not Justified in God's sight, while in this life, when as the Saints were Justified from that which the judgements of God was to, and such could say its not I that live but Christ in me.  
To our saying touching Christ's Body that the Body is one, and hath many Members, 1 Cor. 12 12. I. H. and T. M. answer that's said both of a Personal and mystical body or Society in different senses, and then they say true; also that the body of Christ either Personal or mystical is not Carnal but Spiritual.  
REP. Here they darken the minds of the simple by words which they have no Scripture for, for the Scripture nowhere speaks of Christ having a personal body, and a mystical body, and yet both Spiritual. For if he hath two Spiritual bodies, wherefore do they say the one is Personal, and the other mystical, as if then both were not mystical; and whence came that distinction in these words from the Papists? What is not that which is Spiritual mystical? (according to their own words) but Paul saith as the body is one and hath many Members, so also is Christ, and now are they many Members yet but one body, 1 Cor. 12. 12, 20. and there is one body and one Spirit, Ephes. 4. 4. but I. Horn, in a Paper to me saith, that Jesus hath a human Body and Soul 
* That which is human is earthly, as humanus & homo are of hhmus the ground from whence man was taken; so that a human Soul is an earthly Soul, what then hath Christ both an earthly Soul and a divine Soul in him?  (& where does the Scripture say that Christ's Soul is human? For his Soul is divine and immortal) & men's natural or earthly bodies are human, and the Apostle distinguisheth between them and the Spiritual bodies, 1 Cor. 15. 40, 44. so that Christ hath a glorious Spiritual body in Heaven which few can discern, distinct from men's teresttial or natural bodies, which are human, now if Christ hath a natural or human body, & a Spiritual body, & his Church too, which is his body, which they call his mystical body, may they not as well say he hath three bodies? And then why not as well four or five bodies? But their Ignorance about the natural and the Spiritual bodies is so plainly discovered in our Book entitled a Brief Discovery of the Dangerous Principles, &c. in which the Truth is so clearly over them that I need say little as to that Particular now.  
To that 1 Thes. 4. 15. Where its said, we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, &c. John Horn and T. M. say, we that live and remain, means but those of us that shall be found living, that is, of the company of believers, with whom they numbered themselves because then living, and possibly not knowing but they might have lived to his coming, but it no more implies that the believers of that age should live and remain till the coming of Christ, than they who lived in David's age, lived in Moses age many hundred years before him, &c.  
I Answer, Herein these perverters would accuse Paul with speaking both ignorantly and falsely, to speak ignorantly, as if he knew not whether they should live and remain till the coming of the Lord, (who then were alive) and to speak falsely, in their denying that the believers of that age should live and remain till the coming of Christ: whenas Paul expressly said, we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them that are asleep; so that they knew the several appearances and operations of Christ till they all beheld his glory with open face as in a glass, and were made to sit with him in Heavenly places.  
J. H. and T. M. The Apostles exhort to set our affections upon things above, where Christ is also at the right hand of God, not upon things within yourselves, but upon things above. Col. 3. 2. 3.  
I Answer, If the Saints were not to set their Affections on things within themselves, than not upon Christ in them, for the Riches of the Glory of this mystery, was Christ in them the hope of Glory, Col. 1. 27. so see the darkness of these men, who would as by their Doctrine divide Christ, who is both in the Saints and at God's right hand, not divided, nor God's right hand divided from them who are saved by it, and how should they set their affections on things above, when they do not affect Christ nor his Spirit in them?  
Page 42. J. H. and T. M. The Apostles Faith was not grounded in Christ's appearing in them, Page 42.  
Answ. Which is contrary to the Apostles Doctrine, for Paul Preached to the Saints that their faith might stand in the power of God, and this power wrought mightily in them; and Paul said, examine yourselves whether you be in the faith, prove your own selves, know you not your own selves how that Jesus Christ is in you except ye be reprobates.  
J. H. and T. M. in Page 31. accuse us with being jugglers, and Jesuits, that are full of lies and confusion. But this I return back upon them as a lie and a slander invented in their malice, for do they know us to be Jesuits? Why do they not discover us to be such then?  
After that J. H. and T. M. have denied that they that were led by the Spirit of God, did witness the creature brought into the glorious liberty of the Sons of God before their decease, (wherein they have discovered much ignorance of the state of them who were led by the Spirit of God, who remained, not all their life time without their liberty) they say it is God that hath ordered the Redemption there spoken of (viz. Rom. 8. 23.) to be after death, &c. and that it was their part (viz. the Apostles) and so is ours to groan after it, and wait for it, till the time of Christ's descending from Heaven to change our vile body, &c. To which I say, and this descending of Christ from Heaven according to these men's words, is not till after men's decease, when they say the bodies shall be raised; And then if it be the Saints part that are deceased, and the part of all believers to groan after, and wait for the redemption of the body, (as if the Saints body were not changed, nor redeemed from the bondage of corruption before their decease, as these men affirm) where are the Saints deceased now groaning for Redemption? are they with the Father in Heaven groaning for it? Or are they groaning in some Purgatory between Heaven and Hell? Oh! what sottishness are these men in? For in the Father is rest from burdens and bondage, which caused the groaning, and the Saints according to their expectations and hope, knew the working of the Power of God, according to which they witnessed, a changing of the body of their lowness (as the word renders it, {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman},) and a fashiong of it into the likeness of Christ's glorious body, which power these men being ignorant of, they put that Redemption and the glorious liberty of the Sons of God a far of, till after the decease they know not how long, but their ignorance about that, hath been largely manifest.  
Again to vindicate Thomas Moors instancing (for Christ's being in Heaven with a body of flesh and bones without blood in it) that we do not read that there was any blood in Adam's body in paradise: To this J. Horn and T. M. say, that T. Moor brought forth indeed such an observation as a conception, or thought of his, which rendered it probable to his apprehension, that a glorified spiritual body needs not the being of material blood in it, and that he reads not that Adam's body had blood in it before the fall, in which he conceives what before was more purely Spirits, was changed into blood, and therein the body became mortal; but this is but his private conception, which he gives not forth as an Oracle to be believed, as an Article of Faith, they say Page 53.  
I Answer, Mark the deceit and lying divinations of these men, and how doubtful and confused they are in what they deliver; it is known by many that Thomas Moor affirmed openly, as also he hath in some of his Books, that Christ's body in Heaven, is a body of flesh and bones without blood in it, and that he ascended without material blood.  
But against this their own assertion, they say in Page 26. yet that his body is a body of flesh and bones in Heaven without blood in it, they determined not: So who should believe these Hypocrites who assert things that they themselves are so doubtful of; and Preached their own conceptions, and imaginations which they have no Scripture for, and against their own words have guessed above what is written, and have given forth their private conceptions, not as an Oracle to be believed. Oh! what darkness and folly are they in? And yet after that they have confessed that what they have said (of Adam's body not having blood in it before the fall) is but a private conception which they give, not as an Oracle to be believed: They go about to vindicate this private conception of theirs in these words, viz. but how prove we that Adam had blood? Why blood is the life, T. M. may answer, it is so in the fallen state follows it, it was so there they say: So than it follows from these men's words that it is in the fallen state that men have blood in their bodies, & that then it is the life but not in the innocent or spiritual state; from whence they might as well say, that then Christ had never blood in his body, for he was never in the fallen state, and that the Saints that were Spiritual had not blood, for they were not thus in the fallen state: What miserable blind guides are these that tive go about to maintain their foolish conceptions which they gall not forth as Oracles to be believed.  
And to our saying, that Nations are made of one blood, Acts 17. 26. J. Horn and T. Moor say, but neither doth that cross T. Moor's apprehensions, for there was no Nation nor man made of Adam before his fall; he fell before he propagated they say.  
Answ. Here again their folly and sottishness exceedingly appears, for Adam's falling before he propagated, does notargue that he had no blood in his body before he fell, for Nations to be made of; for he might have propagated if he had not fallen, seeing that when God had created man in his own image male & female created he them, than God blessed them, and God said unto them be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth and subdue it, &c. Gen. 1. 27, 28. And where we asked them whether they believe there was no blood left in Christ's body when crucified? They answer, how should we certainly believe what is not revealed? Some judge it probable there was not, because it is said after his fide was pierced, forthwith came there out blood and water; water is mentioned last, as if blood might be all drained out till water followed it, they say.  
I answer, Here again they have showed their weakness, in that they have here shown, that they do not certainly believe there was no blood in Christ's body when Crucified, because it's not revealed to them, and where they say that forthwith came there out water and blood. I say, what could the blood all come out forthwith; so that people may take notice, that all their former asserting that Christ ascended without material blood, and that his body is in Heaven without blood in it, & their thus blindly reasoning for it as they have here done, is but all in darkness since what they speak of it is not revealed to them, and therefore they say, they find some good men that had the oversight of the Churches here in Queen Elizabeth, and the following days did not disbelieve or deny such a conception, for they say it is printed amongst those songs set before or after the Psalms in the complaint of a sinner.  
Thus they 
The Scripture doth declare, no drop of blood in thee,  
for that thou didst not spare, to shed each drop for me.   
Page 54. Whence the Reader may see, from whence J. Horn and old T. Moor, and his Son have part of their Faith, or their Testimony for it, even from among Songs which were Invented by men; what sad stuff is this! but sure could they have proved their Faith, and their Conceptions by the Scriptures, they needed not to have gone to among old Songs to have proved it, which are but additions of men, not given forth by the Prophets or Apostles.  
After that John Horn hath in pag. 55. Confessed himself subject to forgetfulness, and oversights, and that he did in his forgetfulness write Job for Elihu, because the Book doth wholly bear the Title of Job; he further proceeds in his Deceit to Vindicate his words in a Letter to Eliz. Underwood which were that the good Angels are not pure in the presence of God, and to prove it he brought Job 4. 18. and 15. 15. where it's said, behold he putteth no trust in his Saints, and his Angels he charged with folly; which were none of Jobs words, but Eliphaz his words, who was one of the Miserable Comforters that came against Job, and one of them against whom the wrath of God was kindled, and spoke not the thing of God that was right, as Job did. Job 42. 7. but John Horn replies, that what Eliphaz said of the Angels as charged with folly, is related by Eliphaz rather as a thing Revealed to him, and said to him in a Vision by a Spirit.  
I Answ. But what Spirit it was that led Eliphaz to speak so against the Saints & Angels, thou J. H hast not made appear, but in thy Darkness and Deceit, hast joined with that Spirit that hath accused the Brethren, and the good Angels as thou hast done further than Eliphaz did, for where provest thou that the good Angels are not pure in the presence of God? and what Sin canst thou prove the good Angels Guilty of, that makes them Impure? and what are the names of those good Angels that thou hast so accused? and dost thou believe that God putteth no trust in his Saints according to his words that thou hast quoted to prove thy Deceit? Again,  
Pag. 57 J. H. and T. M. Say, they said about that in 1 Cor. 15. So (flesh and blood cannot Inherit the Kingdom of God) that in the Changed state, what was blood before, might be Changed into Pure Life and Spirit, the thing and Substance remaining though (they say) not in the same Form of Blood, which yet they Conclude not, they say.  
Answ. Here again, they have showed their folly and Imaginations, for which they have been reproved in Laying down that which they have no Scripture for, but their own blind Supsition, which now they Conclude not, and so are but uncertain of their blindly saying, That in the Changed state what was blood before, might be changed into pure Life and Spirit, and yet the thing and Substance remaining; So how can others believe these men, when they seem hardly to believe their own words, and how often do they thus leave People in uncertainties?  
To our saying, that the Light of Christ shines in Darkness in some before the morning, which was in Answer to that Scripture Isai. 8. 20. which they brought to prove that there is no Light in some, when as the Word is {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} no Morning to him, which afterward J. H. was partly made to confess, but now he and T. M. say that we allude to 2 Pet. 1. 19 and so we Imply that the Word of prophecy (the Scriptures of the Prophets, for it appears clearly by the next verse, they say he speaks of them, as more sure to others for their Faith, because more abundantly Conformed then the Apostles, saying that they had such vision) is not the Morning Light, and that the believers that had like Precious Faith with the Apostles had not Morning Light in them, and so were like those that peep and mutter and Preach false Doctrine they say.  
Answ? Herein have they belied, and wrested our words; for we did not imply, nor intend, that the Word of prophecy in the Believers is not the Morning Light, nor, that the Believers had not the Morning Light in them, nor that they were like those that peep and mutter, as these men have falsely said and belied both us and the former Believers; for we declared how that the Light of Christ both shineth in Darkness, and how it shineth out of Darkness, and how it is both the Evening and the Morning Light; As also there is a time wherein the Light is not clear, nor dark, and when at Evening time it shall be Light, Zech. 14. 7. so that they in whom there is no Morning, have a Light in them, as it appears in Darkness. And their Affirming here that the Word of prophecy spoken of in 2 Pet. 1. 19 is the Scriptures of the Prophets, and that they are more sure than the Apostles saying: (or words) in this, have they showed their blindness, for the Word of prophecy was the Light which shined in a dark place, which Peter Exhorted them to take heed unto, until the day dawned, and the day Star arose in their hearts; for why should the Scriptures of the Prophets be more sure than the Apostles Words? since that the fulfilling of them, the Apostles were eye Witnesses of, and Preached the End and fullness, which the Scriptures of the Prophets do but prophesy or foretell off, and what, was not Peter's words as well to be believed, (by the Believers he wrote to) as the prophet's Words? Seeing these blind men aforesaid have accounted the prophet's Words more sure than his? And where in p. 59 they say that John saith, Christ is the true Light, that lighteneth every man coming into the World; They say it is not enlighteneth, in which they have falsely said for it is: {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} which is as well enlighteneth as lighteneth.  
And where we called John horn Impudent liar, for charging us with a Passage about Mr. Towns-end (as they call him) John Horn says he cannot be guilty of Impudent Lying, for he followed the Cambridge Queries & what was attested in them; To which I say, John Horn then followed a Lying Spirit, and gave himself to believe lies, which the Cambridge Queries were full of, as also that Priest who was the Author of them, viz. Tho. Smith (who J. Horn falsely saith, baffled us; his lies and gross Slanders are made apparent to the Nation (in a Book I gave forth; entitled, The Key of Knowledge, not found in the University, &c.) as John Horn lies also are here like to be, who hath taken part with a Lying Spirit, as one, who is given over to believe and Report Lyes, who hereby seeks to get into favour with the Priests of the Nation, whom he and T. Moor have so publicly in their discovery called Greedy dogs, strong to Appetite, who Hunt after Livings and Maintenance, &c. And now after John Horn hath published this lie against me, which he Learned out of the Cambridge Queries, he saith he might be too rash in taking it upon trust, and not fathering it upon him whence he had it, in that, he Confesses himself faulty, and Craves forgiveness in pag. 63. To which I say, oh! J. Horn where art thou now? How often hast thou in thy Papers said thou hast not belied me? And now thou hast showed thyself how thou hast been like the prophet's Enemies, who were in the the false Reports against the true Prophets; and may not thou and Tho. Moor be ashamed, to say, that scholar that Disputed with us baffled us, when thou art taken so plainly in his lie, and your saying so is but from his Relation? Oh! what filthy Deceit and impudence are you in? Have you all this while counted us Deceivers, and false Prophets, and heretics, and yourselves to be true Ministers; and now do you expect we should forgive you your Iniquity? Oh! what Deceit, hypocrisy, and confusion are you in? But had you stood in that of God, which made you confess your lie, you had not added so many to it as you have. Again you say we twit you over and over, that you are neglecters of Christ and Abusers of God's Truth, by your own Confession, to which you say blessed be God that you are counted worthy to suffer Reproach for his Names sake, for that's the thing you say we are mad at you for, &c. p. 65.  
Answ. Nay, In this have you lied, for wherein you do suffer, it is not for the Name of the Lord, for you are not worthy to suffer for that since that you suffer as Neglecters of Christ and the Abuse of his Truth, which you have long abused, as you have confessed, and yet you continue abusing it, and its servants, with your lies and false Reports; and you have confessed yourselves Guilty of Sin with the Nation, and have your share too much in their Pollutions. p. 66. and have Confessed that we are a heavy Judgement of God, that he hath ordered to punish you for your Neglect of Christ and abuse of his Truth, so that it's not for the Name of Christ that you suffer, but as Evil doers. And in your Confessing your abuse of the Truth, you go about to join yourselves in with the true Prophets, and Apostles, saying that they use to Confess their Sins, as David, Solomon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Paul James John, &c. and then you say, had we heard David's saying, Innumerable evils have Compassed me about, mine Iniquities have taken such hold upon me that I am not able to look up, &c. Would we not have called him Hypocrite for Faulting his Enemies as Evil doers, and yet he himself so burdened with Iniquity, You say? and further, you say, had we heard Isaiah say, we grope for the Wall like the blind, we grope as if we had no eyes, and stumble at noonday, us in the night, Isai. 59 12, 13, 14. For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, &c. Would we not have said, oh! thou Hypocrite, hast thou been crying out against us, as blind and Brutish, and dost thou grope like a blind man? you say.  
Answ. You have herein supposed falsely, for we should not have had the same ground to call David and Isaiah Hypocrites, that we have to call you so; for you never came to that Innocency, and Righteousness they came to, after they had confessed their Sins; for they suffered the terrors of the Lord for them, and Iniquity was David's burden; In so much that he was bowed down greatly, and went mourning all the day long, and so he and the Prophets did not only confess their Sins, but also forsook them, and by the Spirit of Judgement and burning, they were purged from their Iniquities: But you still continue in your Iniquities, and abusing God's Truth, and never suffered the terrors of the Lord, nor sorrowed as David did, nor ever became such Righteous men as David was: For he was not a contender for Sin; not in the hireling Priests steps as you are. And as for Isaiah's saying, we grope for the Wall like the blind, we grope as If we had no eyes, &c. This Relates more to the unrighteous Rulers and Jews, as an effect of their Iniquities, than it doth to any Guilt the Prophet had, (for he was then a Seer and bad eyes, that saw the Light and the straight path) for he said of the Jews, that their hands were defiled with Blood, their Feet ran to Evil, the way of Peace they knew not, and there was no Judgement in their Goings; Therefore said he, is Judgement far from us, neither doth Justice overtake us, we wait for Light but behold obscurity, for Brightness, but we walk in darkness, we grope for the Wall like the blind, See Isai. 59 2. 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. But mark, how it was the prophet's burden, that the people's Iniquity was thus great, for he saith, we roar all like bears and mourn sore like Doves, we look for Judgement, but there is none, for Salvation, but it is far off from us, vers. 11. but it does not appear that ever John Horn or either old Tho. Moor, or the younger, have ever thus Roared and mourned because of Iniquity, as the Prophet Isaiah did (for if they did, they would not plead for it as they do) nor are they come into his Innocency who are Guilty of Sin with the Nation, and have a share in the Nations pollutions as they confess, and yet continue in their Iniquity of lying and abusing the Truth which the Prophets and holy men of God did not, so that they cannot hide themselves and their Guilt and Deceit, though they have taken it upon them to Reprove the Teachers, and People of the Nation.  
Since that John Horn, and Tho. Moor have confessed us called Quakers, a heavy judgement of God which he hath ordered to punish them for their neglect of Christ, and their abuse of his Truth; and we asked them why they Rage so against God's Judgement; Seeing they have sinned so against him? To this they say, were not the false Prophets and Deceivers always a Judgement? And did not the Prophets and Apostles always Reprove them, and warn People of them?  
Answ. Here again their folly appears, for neither have they proved us false Prophets and Deceivers, as they were, the True Prophets and Apostles Reproved; nor yet that they themselves are as the true Prophets and Ministers were, who owned God's Judgements in their place, and did not abuse the Truth as they do (but Mark) where does the Scripture ever say, that false Prophets and Deceivers, were ordered of God as a heavy Judgement to punish his true Prophets for their Neglect of Christ, and abuse of his Truth, as these men's words Imply? seeing they count themselves true Ministers, & us Deceivers ordered of God as a heavy Judgement to punish them for their abuse of the Truth; Again their counting us a Judgement as the Deceivers, and false Prophets were, whom the true Prophets reproved, belongs to themselves & not to us: for these Deceivers were such as sought for their Gain from their quarters, and Preached for Hire and Rewards, and stole the words from their Neighbours, saying, thus saith the Lord, when God never spoke to them, and strengthened the hands of Evil doers that they might not forsake their Sins, and were in their lies, and Lightness, all which John Horn, and Thomas Moor (Especially the Elder) are evidently Guilty, for they have much contended for Sin, declared their own Conceptions and divinations, and J. H. hath pleaded for their taking tithes and Hire. And further J. H. in his Book called Truth's Triumph, hath gone about to clear himself like as they have done here before, as where I counted it absurd for him to say, that People ought to account the Quakers accursed, whom they have said to be an heavy Judgement to them, for than they must Count the Judgement of God accursed, to this J. H. saith in pag 8. for doth not Judgement begin at the House of God? 1 Pet. 4. 17. and doth he not ordain wicked men for Judgement, such as the Chaldeans and false Teachers, Jude 4. and Satan too, as to Job?  
Answ. Here J. H. his deceit is seen plainly, who would fain be accounted as a sufferer with Job, and one in the House of the Lord, but did God ever set Deceivers to be a heavy Judgement over his house to punish it for its abuse of the Truth? as J. H. hath acknowledged we are to him and such as he is: For the House of God is the Pillar and Ground of Truth, and was that Judgement Deceivers which began at the House of God? Surely J. H. hath undervalved the House of God, neither was Job such an abuser of the Truth, nor a liar as J. H. is, nor did he suffer as such a one when God tried him: for he was a Perfect and an upright Man, and one that feared God, and Eschewed evil, such as J. H. is not, to be sure; so what was done to Job was to try him: Neither can he prove us such as the Chaldeans were, Job 1. 17. nor are we a Judgement to God's House, but a refreshment and blessing to them that are in it. And as for the false Teachers spoken of in Jude; they were even such as J. H. is, filthy Dreamers, that spoke evil of the things they knew not, as he doth; and went in the way of Cain to Envy; and after the Error of Balaam for Reward, and spoke great swelling words of vanity, having men's persons in Admiration because of Advantage as J. H. hath. And after that J. Horn hath been pleading for tithes and Hire, he and T. M. in Page 71. Lay down as their Principle; That the Priests and Levites, even when they were such as blind Watchmen, and Ignorant profane Persons, the Lord faults the People for not bringing in and giving them that which he by his Law made theirs (meaning tithes) and charged them with Robing him therein, and to prove it brings Mala. 3. 8, 9  
Answ. Here in have they abused the Scripture, for it does not say, the Lord faulted the People for not bringing and giving tithes to the blind Watchmen and Ignorant profane Persons; but rather faults both the Priests and People for breaking his Law, and tells the Priests they were Cursed, and faults them both▪ as appears for withholding the tithes from the storehouse, saying, Bring ye all the tithes to the store-house, that there may be meat in mine house, Mal. 3. 10. and chap. 2. for at the store-house the Fatherless, widows and strangers should have been relieved out of the tithes, which then were oppressed when the Priests were corrupt, and the tithes were not brought to the store-house which God commanded, Mal. 3. where we accused J. H. and T. M. of ignorance in their pleading, that all are not hirelings that take hire, for which they brought, Zech. 11. 12. And to our telling them it was spoken by way of prophecy concerning Judas demanding hire of the chief Priests for betraying Christ.  
J. H. and T. M. replies, Christ is clearly in the Prophet, the Shepherd feeding the flock, and asking the price, not Judas as we have falsely supposed, but what is said, he says, was by the Prophet Jeremiah, in Matthew it is said Jer. not Zech. they say.  
Answ. They have herein showed their ignorance and cavilling, for where did ever Christ when he was upon earth ask thirty pieces of silver of the Jews, or of any for feeding the flock? herein would they make Christ a hireling like themselves, for in Zech. 11. 12. It is said, they weiged for my price thirty pieces of silver, and a goodly price that I was prized at of them, which plainly hath relation to the price that Judas took for Christ of the chief Priests, Mat. 26. 14. So that Christ did not take this price, nor was he the hireling, but Judas; And where doth the Prophet Jeremiah either contradict us, or the Prophet Zechariah, seeing you allege that their expression agree not? And where you say that such as Christ hires and sends to keep his flock, may and sometimes do prove hirelings as Judas, &c. A poor proof for you who are hirelings, preaching for hire, so Judas that hireling who carried the bag, and was a thief, John 12. 6. is your way, and not Christ who freely takes care over his flock, and freely gives to his Ministers that they may freely give again.  
J. H. and T. M. in Page 73. Say, as for their wearing cuffs and ribbons, and white boot-hose-tops, they say, we make a stir about trifles and lawful ornaments, concerning which Christ hath not put them in bondage, or forbid them to them, they say.  
Answ. If wearing cuffs and ribbons, &c. be lawful ornaments. where is the pride and vanity in apparel, which you reproved the People for in your other Book? What, is not Cuffs, Ribbons, and Lace (which many of your company wear) vanity in apparel? and where you count such vanities lawful ornaments, and say that Christ hath not forbid them, in this have you shown your deceit and vanity, for the Apostles did not preach these things up as lawful ornaments as you have done, for Paul saith, I will that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety, not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array, 1 Tim. 2. 9 and Peter said whose adorning, let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel, &c. 1 Pet. 3. 3, 4. What do you think that Christ did not speak in these Apostles? And are not many of your company transgressors of his Doctrine, in wearing gaudy and costly attire, with their cuffs, ribbons and silver lace?  
And whereas you say (concerning which Christ hath not put you in bondage, nor forbid them to you, we say behold your birth, and what generation you are of; who counts it bondage to put off your pride & come to moderation: Are there not some so born that would count it great bondage to be kept from whoring, & stealing, such is their natures and the Spirits they are of? And here are you, and here is your liberty found in the same nature and bondage: But though it be your liberty to be proud, yet its bondage to them that labours to maintain you therein, & to the whole creation of God, this we know concerning the pride and idleness and fullness of such Teachers.  
And in that you say, Christ hath not forbid them to you, how is that? seeing it was ever forbid to all the Ministers of Christ and their followers; so we say it's not because God is more at one with it, than formerly he hath been; but this is the cause, you having not heard his voice, at any time, nor seen his shape how should he forbid you, or show you better example, seeing the Scriptures you can wrest to every lust, and purpose of your corrupt hearts.  
Oh! what deceivers and Hypocrites are you, to preach up, (and to encourage them in) such vanity and pride? When you should be examples of godliness, and rather reprove such pride and wickedness than encourage them in it.  
And where you say, the Israelstes were not faulted of God for wearing Jewels and earrings, and ornaments, &c. this cannot cover your deceit and pride, for the Israelites borrowed jewels of the Egyptians (such as you are) and as appears they were but for a time worn, for the Lord said unto them, who wore the Jewels, I will come up in the midst of thee in a moment, and consume thee therefore, now put off the ornaments from thee and the Children of Israel stripped themselves of their ornaments, &c. Exod. 12. 35. and chap. 33. 5. and you may see as before the Apostles Preached another thing, and did not wear cuffs nor ribbons, nor plead for them as you do.  
And where we charged thee, J. Horn with being one of the dogs, which thou said look for their gain from their quarters, to this thou answers that thou charged none so.  
I reply, Oh! thou Hypocrite and liar, art thou ashamed to own thy own words? wouldst thou now get into favour with this Priests of the Nation, whom thou hast so palpably writ against in thy Book called A Brief Discovery, & c? wherein thou hast charged the Priests in Page 20. and 21. with being such as Isaiah speaks of, Isa. 56. 10, 11, 12. Blind watchmen, dumb dogs, dogs strong to appetite, greedy dogs hunting after livings and maintenance, that look every one for his gain from his quarters, and with many more such like expressions, which thou and Thomas Moor have uttered against the generality of the Teachers of this Nation, so that thy seeking to revoke or deny what thou hast said (especially if you one begin to bite another) cannot hide thyself, no, if thou should get the Book of commonprayer it would not serve thy turn, if such as thou hast counted dumb dogs begin to bite thee.  
And where in Page 74. thou and Thomas Moor accused the Quakers, and the Jesuits to be either the same, or of very great affinity.  
That, I return again upon you as a lie and a slander, proceeding from a murderous Spirit, who before plainly countedus Jesuits and jugglers in Page 31. But do you certainly know we are such? If you did, you would sure make it better appear than you do, that your murderous Spirits might be satisfied.  
J. Horn and T. Moor's principle, Page 75. For every neglect of Christ and abuse of his truth, deprives not of God, nor is accompanied with such transgressions, as not to abide in his Doctrine, they say.  
Answ. Which is as much as to say, that a man may neglect Christ and abuse his truth, and yet abide in God and in Christ's Doctrine notwithstanding: This is one of the devil's Doctrines wherein they are Ministers of Sin and not of Christ, for he that abideth in the Doctrine of Christ abideth in Christ, and he that abideth in him sinneth not, 1 John 3, 6. for Christ teacheth perfection and holiness, and against all sin and abusing the truth, Mat. 5. 48. and see 1 Pet. 1. 15, 16. So that the pit which these men aforesaid have digged for others, they are fallen into themselves, and have evidently showed themselves to be deceivers, and enemies to righteousness.  
J. H. and T. M. in Page 76. Say thus, viz. We say, that that body of Christ which had flesh and bones after the resurrection of it, is taken up into Heaven and is in Heaven, Luke 24. 39, 40, 51, 52. what change or transmutation further it had in its ascension and glory, we know not (they say)  
Answ. So than it appears, that you know not what such a body Christ hath in Heaven, and so you discern not his body, for what change or transmutation it had in its ascension, and glory you know not: And how know you than it is a body with flesh and bones without blood in it as you have affirmed? Which you would have us to have submitted to your imaginations in, when now you know not what such a body it is yourselves, no more than you know where his blood is, which you said is the foundation of your faith, for it may for aught you know, be turned into pure life and spirits, as you have said: And might you not as well have said so of his body too, seeing what change or transmutation it had in its ascension, and glory you know not, only the nearest proof you have brought to prove it, hath no blood it, is a piece of a rhyme or song that you have learned from among the songs set before (or after) David's Psalms, which you say 'tis probible had they thought it an error, they would scarce have let it be printed there.  
To which I say, you have come off exceeding poorly to prove your Doctrine, and your weakness and ignorance the Reader may easily see.  
'Tis probable too that you did not think there was so many errors and lies in your volume of above 20. sheets against us, as there are in it, which does not prove it Erroneous therefore, which if your matter had been sound, you needed not like the Papists have made up so much stuff, and taken up such a great compass to clear yourselves, but you have the more discovered your folly and wickedness thereby, as the more you will do, the further you go on in it: as also the Reader may see what weakness you have discovered in Answer to our five Questions and other Questions of ours, if he read your Book, but it will be a task and pretty hard for any unprejudiced Spirits to read it over there being so much confused frothy stuff in it, and cavilings, nothing at all tending to Edification to be sure; that in a short time it will be out of Date, and but as wast Paper, or an old almanac except it be with some such cankered Spirits as your own. If John horn pay for the Printing of such great confused volumes: his Preaching sure must be sold at a dear Rate, and if his hearers pay for it, than they know the burden of it, but however his work will come to nought, for the day hath discovered him and it, to be in Darkness.  
And now Reader since that all the particulars of the said Book are not worth answering, I having already answered and Rejected the things in it against us of most concernment, I shall show thee a few more consequences and Doctrines laid down by the said John horn, and Thomas Moor the Elder and his Son, which we deny, and thou may Judge whether they came from a true Spirit or a False.  
J. H. and T. M. In their Epistle say. That he (viz. Christ) may say (as Paul said) to will is present with me, but how to perform what I would, I find not.  
They tell of Christ, making his grave with the wicked before he was begotten, and that he suffers before he be begotten.  
That he by whom all things were made, is in some men, and yet his Power not begotten.  
That when the Power Reacheth to the Seed, it rises in it by Degrees, surely as men in whom he is, Give way to him.  
That he (viz. Christ) hath neither done dying, nor been at any time without his Reigning,  
That he (viz, Christ) Bare his own Sins in his Body, and is the Propitiation for himself, seeing the Church is he or part of him. Page 29.  
That the dead in Christ were Raised before Paul, and the believing Thessalonians died; and so they did not sleep as to their Bodies, but were suddenly changed, and taken up to meet the Lord in the air; And in vain do men look for Christ's coming to Raise the dead, for that's past and gone before the Apostles Age was Past.  
The Resurrection of the Just is over. See Pag. 32.  
That the Flesh of Christ which we eat is something of the Church, the Flesh and Substance of the Church, and so▪ the Church is to eat itself. Page 30.  
These are John Horn, and Tho. moors Own words which we utterly deny, and the Reader may see if they have not therein spoken Blasphemy. Again to our saying; That now the Lord makes a new Covenant with his People, when he takes away their Sins not according to the old Covenant which the Israelites broke, according to Heb. 8. 7, 8, 9 and Jer. 31. 31, 32. and ch. 33. 8. To this J. H. and T. M. say, Pag. 17. It seems then in this time they may be Sinless, and yet Sin, lie and forge and traduce and yet not Sin in it all.  
Judge Reader, is this a good Doctrine or Consequence of theirs which they draw from the words of Truth and Scripture? And further Mark what Doctrines J. Horn, and Tho. Moor have laid down. They Affirm.  

1. That every Sin is not deceit.  
2. Nor every deceit Guile.  
3. That Envy is not Malice, Page 18.  
4. That a man may be a Sinner, and yet not Sin, Pag. 11.  
5. That Sin is in the believer as a natural heritage from Adam while he is in this mortal Body, Pag 2. 8.  
6. That the same mortal Body that dies, or is sown in the Earth shall Rise, but it shall not Rise flesh and blood, Pages 44. 46.  
7. To know Christ as he was the Power of God before the World was, is not the Knowledge of him to Salvation? Pag 48.  
8. That the Light wherewith Christ Lighteth every man is both natural and Spiritual. Pag. 61.  
9 That Adam should not have died the bodily Death had he not Sinned, Pag. 23.  
10. That when Paul saith Christ was seen of him last. 1 Cor. 15, 8. he must needs mean is of his Body, seen and seen by bodily sight Pag. 55. which is contrary to Gal. 1. 16.   
And now I shall note some things in their Answers to our Queries, and briefly Reply to them, by way of discovery.  
J. H. and T. M. Sen. & Juni. in Pag. 77. They go about to prove that Satan presseth men to some duties, thus viz.  
That Satan's Ministers may be transformed into the Ministers of Righteousness, which they could not be, if not zealous for some things that are in their place, and order 
J. H. T. M.  in Duties as to be diligent to go up and down, and Preach Righteous works, together with their own mixtures and to evil unrighteous ends.  
Reply. How miserably come you off here! for these are not Duties, that are done to unrighteous ends, for Duties are done in Righteousness, and to Righteous ends, and this Satan presseth none to, yourselves are these transformed ones you tell of, who are zealous for some things, for tithes or Hire or Masterships, and these are your evil and unrighteous ends, which are manifest to all men, and are not yet come so far as they that are drawn from gross evils, and though Satan for your own ends press these things as Duties, yet are they not Duties in the sight of God and Gospel Truth.  
Touching our 1. Que. You say p. 8. Whether we so propounded it out of weakness or wickedness you will not determine; And yet soon after in your Answer to the same 
I. H. T. M.  Que. you charge us with confounding things clearly distinct and seeking by such confusion to work our ends in deceiving the simple; which is your own false determination against us: when before, you determined not whether we so propounded it out of weakness or wickedness; thus you betray yourselves in your confusion, and at the Beginning of your Answer you falsely say these Questions, give a full Intimation of our Antichristian Spirit, which is your slander, and perverting them.  
In your 2. Answer you say, our Que. is perverse in that it Intimately charges you as calling the Personal Body of our Lord Jesus, a Body of flesh and bones; which you 
J. H. T. M.  say is a slander, for it is not your expression, and yet you say, though possibly you may sometimes have let it pass without consideration or particular notice of it, in some discourse that may have passed between us.  
Reply, Mark how these men are ashamed of their own words, and count that a Slander which they cannot deny, but that they may sometimes have spoken, as called the Body of Christ a Body of flesh and bones, and yet now they say the expression they own not, when it is evidently known that they have used that expression and gone about to prove it to be such a Body without blood in it, but now seeing that they shame not to deny their own expression, I ask them if the glorified Body of Christ be not a body of flesh and bones as formerly they have Affirmed it to be, what is it a body of? and what is the Substance of it?  
Again you say in your 3. Answer, That be even the Son of man came down from Heaven, and descended into the Lower parts of the Earth, although that his Personal 
J. H. T. M.  Body in which he was made man, and became the Son of man was actually prepared for him or the preparation of it was made in the Earth, you say.  
Reply. Mark your confusion here which is as if the Son of man which came down from Heaven, again became the Son of man in that Personal Body which was prepared for him in the Earth which is confusion, for he was the Son of man as he came down from Heaven, and so that Body prepared for him in the Earth, Descended not down from Heaven as the Son of Man did according to your own words. And where you bring Ps. 139. 15. that proves not how the Son of man Descended into the Lower parts of the Earth, for there it's spoken of the Lowest parts of the Earth, wherein the Prophet saith he was curiously wrought now this is besides the Que. for it was about him, which Descended into the Lower parts of the Earth, and not about that which was framed in the Lowest parts of the Earth which David speaks of, Psal. 139. 15. and as for your telling of the Son of man, being three days, and three nights in the heart of the Earth, pag. 92. I say the Sepulchre in which his Body was buried, could not be the Lower parts of the Earth, for it was but one part of it; it being in a Rock, Mat. 27. 60. and where in Pag. 91. you say men of the lowest rank poor despised and of mean esteem may be as properly called the Lower parts of the Earth, and you bring Rom. 12. 16. then I say if such men be the Lower parts into which Christ Descended, It follows that his descending into the Lower parts of the Earth, was his Descending into men of the lowest Rank poor despised and of mean esteem (such as you are not who are set up as Masters) it seems you running into so many things to prove what the Lower parts of the Earth are, which Christ Descended into, you thought if some of them would not serve, others would; but where the Earth is not yet shaken, nor the Power which must shake and Remove it, known, the Lower parts of the Earth, is covered with thick darkness that they are not discerned, nor the Seed which rends the Earth known, and that is your state and to you a Parable, who are out of the Power of Godliness over whom the Earth, and earthly things hath Power.  
J. H. and T. M. Say (Pag. 93 and 106.) That the Name Jesus always signifies that Person, as so made and includes the Body of his Flesh, and that the Name Jesus always signifies Christ as come in the Flesh, and so takes in that Body of his Flesh.  
Reply, If the Name Jesus always Includes the Body of his Flesh, then from this it follows that the Body of Christ's flesh was in the Believers, for Jesus Christ was in them, 2 Cor. 13. 5. thus these men confound themselves, and they have said that it is the anointing that is in the Believers, and not the Anointed which is also false, for Jesus Christ is the Anointed of God, who is in the Saints, and the Anointed, and Anointing is not divided.  
J. H. and T. M. p. 94. That Christ in the Body of his Flesh, may be truly and properly said to be Ascended, or gone up far above all Heavens, not only in respect of Glory and Dignity, but even in respect of place or Local height also.  
Rep. But what place or Local height it is that Christ is Ascended into far above all heaven's Eph. 4. 10. you have not discovered but say it was Heaven itself, or the Heaven of Heavens, as if you had said Heaven itself, & the Heaven of Heavens is far above all Heavens, and then it must be far above itself; when the Apostle saith he that Descended, is the same also that Ascended up far above all Heavens, that he might fill all things, Eph. 4. 9 10. and it is the same that first Descended, that Ascended far above all Heavens, this is spoken without exception of place, or Lo●● height as you except, and the Heaven of Heavens cannot contain that glory that he is in who is ascended, who is both in the Heavens and far above them all.  
Our 10th. Question is, where or how came▪ Christ into the House where his Disciples were met after his Resurrection, the doors being shut, John 20. 19, 26. have not some of you said, that then his body being spirituallized, it glided in at the key hole of the door, you answer, That none of you have said as related.  
Reply, But in this you have not all cleared yourselves from speaking these or the like words, for one that informed me▪ (how Thomas Moor the elder spoke of Christ's body gliding in at the key hole of the door) hath been one of his own hearers whom I know durst not belie him, but would be willing to witness it openly to his face, if called to it, and Barthel Wormel Alderman, who owns you did not go about to clear T. Moor, (from what was said of him as mentioned) when he took upon him to answer that question, and it appears that T. M. and you have had such like whimseyes in your minds, by what follows where you say these words, viz.  
Further also, you are assured, that even the Children of the first Resurrection, when they shall attain to that Resurrection of the dead, and have their bodies that 
T. M. J. H. P. 104.  now are vile fashioned into the likeness of his glorious body, they in those very bodies being spiritual, immortal, powerful, incorruptible shall be equal to the Angels who cannot be hindered from passage by any corruptible things as doors, walls or the like, but can make their own passage thorough any such obstacles, more easily than mortal bodies through the air, and why should it be thought a thing incredible▪ &c.  
Reply, Here people may see these men's imaginations, and dreams, and how against what they have professed, they would appear wise above what is written, for we never read in all the Scriptures that the Children of the first Resurrection in these very bodies of flesh and bones, shall be so equal to the Angels in the Resurrection, as that they may make their own passage thowrow any such obstacles, as doors, walls, and the like, more easily than mortal bodies through the air, as you may see plainly these men imagine; wherein they show themselves intruders into things they have not seen being vainly puffed up in their fleshly minds, and more like such as are peeping and muttering and running into sorcery, and magic, than men in the simplicity of the Gospel, for it is not at all natural nor proper to a body of flesh and bones (it being of such a substance) to make its own passage thorough doors and walls more easily than now it can thorough the air, thus have they showed their dreaming in the night of thick darkness that is over them.  
And in P. 129. J. H. and T. M. are speaking about the second coming of Christ, and say that his second coming, his glorious appearing, never yet hath been to any nor now is; &c.  
Reply, herein they might as well say, that then never yet were any come to Salvation by Christ, for his second coming is without sin unto Salvation, and for the same end he will appear to them, that yet look for him even to save them from their sins, for his coming in the flesh, wherein he was once offered to bear the sins of many, Heb. 9 28. This was one coming of Christ, and after this the Saints who looked for him, received his coming in Spirit to work their Redemption, and to make them witnesses of his kingdom, Glory, and Reign, and to Reign with him over darkness and unrighteousness, but these things have these deceivers put afar off, and discern not Christ's kingdom & Reign, and where they say, that Christ shall then stay all the wicked, even every one that doth not presently submit to serve him and his People, and that then all the Saints that come with him shall have immortal bodies, being as & 
J. H. & T. M.  equal to the Angels; and that they shall Reign with Christ on Earth, and Judge the World until the final and eternal judgement, seize upon all the ungodly at the last, and general Resurrection.  
Reply, Herein they have spoken but faintly and in darkness, for what service it is they imagine the People of God shall then have from the wicked, when they shall be in these raised immortal bodies, they have not told us, nor what need the Saints in these immortal bodies can have of the other part of the Creation, or of the wicked to serve them, especially if their bodies be such as can make their passage so immediately thowrow any such obstacles, as doors and walls, as these men have said, and yet these bodies must be bodies of flesh and bones according to their words: But these vain conceptions do arise from the same Spirit in them that leads them into pride, self-exaltation, and to look for mastership in the Earth like those that look to gain an Earthly kingdom, or to Reign with Christ in some outward pomp and glory, and so to bring all under them, and then they would be Lords indeed, but their expectations after that will fail them, & as for their bringing Revel. 20. 4, 6. It proves not what they would have it (nor the other Scriptures they have blindly quoted that Christ shall personally Reign a thousand years 
* But what is the beloved City, and the Camp of the Saints, which Gogg and Magogg do compass about when the 1000 Years are ended, Revel. 20. 8, 9 whether is it an outward City or not? And where shall it be? and whether any be yet come to that beloved City?  for in Revel. 20. 5. it ' spoken of the first Resurrection, which he is blessed that hath a part in, for than he hath a part in Christ who is the Resurrection, & the life whose Kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, which hath already appeared unto his People, and is set up among them that they are come to Reign with him over the World, and its deceivers, and these men (as appears) imagine that after Christ hath at his coming raised the dead bodies of the Saints, and reigned in person with them 1000 years, there must be another Resurrection of the bodies of the wicked, which they call the last and general Resurrection, but in these things they would show themselves wise above what is written, but the kingdom of Christ wherein he will Reign and Rule over the Nations, is Spiritual and Spiritually discerned and known where the Power wherein the kingdom stands is felt, and not according to the carnal imaginations, of hireling Priests & Deceivers.  
J. H. T. M. In P. 141. They say that Christ hath appointed together with the Preaching the Cross, this outward Ordinance (speaking of the blessing and breaking Bread, and taking and blessing the Cup) for the remembering and showing forth the Lord's Death till be come, which implies that there is even in believers in their several ages, till that his coming again; natural d●●ness and proneness to forget it, and therefore need of such mementoes, &c. and that he hath appointed such means to stir us up by putting us in remembranes often, they say.  
Reply, Herein they undervalue the believers, as if they were 〈◊〉 themselves, having natural dulness and proneness to forget the Lord's Death; & the before imagine that the believers ●●ct have need of such outward ●●ings, as bread and wine to stir them up by putting them in remembrance often, whenas the true believers are come to the substance, and to feed upon the flesh of Christ, and feel his coming, knowing that the bread which they break is the Communion of the body of Christ, and the cup of blessing, which they bless is the Communion of the blood of Christ, which the outward bread and the cup, was but a sign or a figure of, and the end of the World they are come to see, who are in the Communion of the body of Christ, for in the World is the strife and the doting about these outward shadows which are passed away, where the glory of the Sun is broken forth, and the mysteries of life revealed. And what is it that puts you in remembrance to take bread and wine? Will not the same stir you up to the remembrance of Christ's death? But you are so dull and prone to forget it, that you must always have need of such shadows to put you in remembrance often, sure if you were come to feel the power of Christ's sufferings, and were come to feed upon his flesh which giveth life unto the world, and to drink his blood, you would not be so forgetful of Christ as you are, for can a living man who is sound, forget his natural food? And where you say, that we render the Supper of the Lord, as well as the passover a figure, in this have you spoken falsely, for we are come to the Supper of the Lord, and to sup with Christ, and he with us where the bread of God is received, which is not a figure but the substance, to which Supper you are not come who live in pride and vanity, and pleading for sin as your natural heritage, and with such Christ does not Sup, nor feed among such a proud company as you are at your bread and wine, which blindly you call his Supper, when it hath not so much as a true form of the Supper of Christ in it, when his Disciples eat with him in the night, in which he was betrayed, they eat the Passover according to the command, Mat. 26. Luke 22. 8. So that his Supper was not without the Passeover, which was a figure that Christ fulfilled.  
Again J. H. and T. M. in P. 146. you charge us with corrupt imaginations; and with signifying in our former Questions, that the blood sufferings and death of Christ that is over and past as to the actual accomplishment and sustaining thereof, and was so finished in that body is not the bread of life or the drink indeed, and the purger of the conscience, but something else; figured by that, which is now in a present and sensible being nigh to men and in them.  
Reply, In which you show your corruptness and perverting the Truth, in that you are striving against what we said of the flesh and blood of Christ, viz. That his flesh and blood is so nigh to every believer, that his flesh is his meat, and his blood is his drink indeed, and this flesh and blood continues, and is felt in the true believer whereby he hath life in him, and his conscience purged, when the sufferings and death of Christ, as to the actual accomplishment, and sustaining thereof is over and past as you confess: But alas! you are ignorant of this, and cannot tell where the blood of Christ is, as to the existence of it; and yet you have called it the foundation of your faith and God's own blood, P. 89. Acts 20. 28. and yet by your words God is without his own blood in Heaven, for you have denied it to be in Christ's body in Heaven, so you cavel at us for witnessing the life and substance of that, which you are both ignorant of, and are confounded about.  
Where we asked J. H. and T. M. What is their ground for sprinkling the Children, of them they count believers? About this they shuffle and dare not answer directly for fear (it appears) of displeasing their other Brethren, the Priests that differ from them in this, and say they reject our Question, but yet they say That in baptising Repentance, and remission of sins is Preached, and witnessed as in his name for them, and through it unto them, as appears by comparing, Mat. 28. 19 with Luke 24. 47, 48. and Acts 13.  
To which I say, in this have you wrested these Scriptures, for they will not serve your ends as you would have them. Repentance and remission of sins was not Preached by Christ's Ministers to infants through sprinkling them; what do you repent for them? Or promise that they shall repent? And are you sure that they will prove believers, that sprinkle them as the seed of believers in your account? and how do you know that other people's Children whom you have refused to sprinkle are not as well the seed of believers as those whom you sprinkle? and yet for that Popish practice you have no rule in the Scriptures of truth  
You say in P. 155. That we must needs reject and deride imputed Righteousness (viz. mens being the Righteousness of God in him in an answerable sense, as he was made sin for us.)  
Reply, Herein you belie us, for we neither reject nor deride the imputed Righteousness, we being in the faith wherein it is revealed in us, and imputed to us to our sanctification, whereby we are become the Righteousness of God in Christ.  
2. Christ was made sin for us who knew no sin, 2 Cor. 5. 21. neither was there any sin in him so that if men's being the righteousness of God in him, be in an answerable sense as Christ was made sin as you imagine & say, than God must account them his Righteousness, when they know none of his Righteousness, nor have any of his Righteousness in them: And this is to make God account sinful men Righteous, and so not to padiffere utnce between the holy and profane, which was the false prophet's practice, as it is yours also; who have also said that maintaining a justification by a Righteousness within, is a mere Unrighteousness, wherein you do no less than charge the Apostle with maintaining a mere unrighteousness, for he told them of the Righteousness of the Law being fulfilled in them, who walked not after the flesh but after the spirit, Rom. 8. 4. And the Saints were justified by the Spirit of God in them, and had the Righteousness of faith in them, & so were not justified in sin, but from it, Acts 13, 39 1 Cor. 6. 11. Phil. 3. 9 but their state are you far from, who have been pleading for sin which is your natural heritage, which makes you so unwilling to part from it, and you would fain be accounted righteous in Christ, when you are unrighteous and deceitful, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and not having it in you, and so would be counted what you are not, and therein are Hypocrites deceiving yourselves and others.  
And where we asked you, what is the Light with which Christ Lighteth every man which cometh into the World? which T. mere said, is both natural and spiritual.  
To this you say, we vary T. M's saying, as (you falsely say) divers times we did our own Question about the Light at that meeting, for you say his Answer was to our Question as thus stated, what is the Light which Christ giveth? And his Answer to this was, that he is the author and giver of both 〈…〉 Light.  
Reply, In this have you spoken falsely on both hands, for we did not then ask, what is the Light which Christ giveth? but whetter the Light with which Christ Lighteth every man that comheh into the World be natural or spiritual? and T. M. said, it is both natural and spiritual; as also you have lied in saying that we vary T. M's saying, for he and you have confessed in P. 61. That the Light wherewith Christ Lighteth every man, is both natural and spiritual, and yet one Light that is both natural & Spiritual you could not show; thus are you taken in yourself contradictions and deceit: And where you say, that Christ is the author and giver of all that is truly called Light, and good to men, this is not to my Question, for it was touching the Light with which Christ Lighteth every man, and not touching all good that he is the author and giver of, for there are many good things that Christ is the author of, that are not the Light wherewith he in lighteneth every man, so that you discover your weakness about the Light.  
And where you ask, where we read that the Gospel is Preached in every Creature?  
Answ. See Col. 1. 23. in the Greek its {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman}, in every Creature.  
And where you say, you have answered in simplicity and p●ainnese, and not with hidden things of dishonesty, but by a plain manifestation of the Truth, in the words of Truth have declared your minds, that others when they read may understand ●our knowledge in the mysteries of Christ.  
Herein your boasting Spirits are seen, you would make men believe as if what you have written were infallible by a plain ma●ifestation of truth, but presently after you say, if in any thing they find you speak not according to the word, let them refuseit and show you in love by evidence of Scripture your mistake, and you shall thankfully accept it, you say.  
To which I say, what confusion deceit and doubting is this you are found in? And what untempered stuff is this? It appears by this you are not assured that your work is all in the Truth, for all your boasting of your answering by a plain manifestation of Truth and of your knowledge in the mysteries of Christ; and now both your lies, slanders, and mistakes in many things are made manifest, and you may see them if you be not still wilfully hardened; and many more aspersions and slanders besides those I have mentioned, have you vomited out in your rage and envy against us in these your answers, which will be a heavy burden upon you when you come to be silent in darkness as the wicked shall, and to reap the fruit of your doings which will be terrible to you one day.  
And where you desire the Reader, if ever he see any Reply to this of yours, he would distinctly observe if we pervert not or alter your sayings, by taking them in pieces and changing expressions to mar the sense, &c. and in observance of this caution, you say you doubt not but the Reader will be satisfied even from ourselves concerning our Antichristian Spirit, without your adding any more by way of return to ours, which though you will not bind yourselves from, yet you do not resolve to do, though we should give you occasion by such sorry shifts and pretended Answers as hitherto we have returned, you say.  
Reply, As for your suspecting us to mar the sense of your sayings by perverting them, and to lie at the catch to get some matters to snarl about as you say, these are your own practices and it's your own evil thoughts against us, wherein you muse of us as you use yourselves, and that arises from the Antichristian spirit that is in you and not in us; and you are the snarlers (as your many lies and frequent perverting our words doth plainly show) and not we; what are you afraid to fall into your own pit?  
2. And as for your not resolving to add any more by way of return to ours, I say, to what end should you add any more in return to ours, for you thereby would but add more to your former wickedness and slanders, and blasphemy against the spirit of the Lord, which is in us, which sees over your deceits, and this would but add more to your shame, for your lying Books many are grown weary of them, who before you vomited out your malice thus against us, had a better esteem of you than now they have; as also, you have falsely said, that we have been already proved deceivers and Antichrists; which if it were so, then away with your work, there is no more need of it against us, but your malignity and falseness herein is largely made manifest to many, and you had better never have been born, than have vented such wickedness & perverseness out of your mouths if you repent not.   

A Brief Reply to John Horne's Book, Called Truth's Triumph over Deceit, &c. Wherein his Deceit, Insolency, and vain boasting, and his Triumphing in his wickedness and lies, is plainly manifested and here reproved, and the Truth Vindicated.  
I See, that the Diviners and Deceivers strive against the Truth of our God, and the more their madness and folly and falsehood Appears, as it is evidently fulfilled upon this J. Horn, whom this his Book falsely Called, Truth's triumph hath sought to Vindicate his own Corrupt Cause, and to clear himself from what I charged against him, in what I writ in that Book Called, The Quakers no Deceivers, the truth of which in his Pride and Deceit, he hath sought to Trample under Foot, but thereby hath he but more discovered his shame and Malice, and folly, and made lies his Refuge, and under falsehood hath hid himself, as they spoken of in Isai. 28. 15. but the more he strives against the Truth, the more he is ensnared and the worse his Cause appears: Therefore he is not like to Prosper, though he appear strongly in Contention for his Master's work which is Sin and unrighteousness; So the Reader hereof may take notice of some of the chief of John Horne's matter which he hath laid down in order to his father's work, who is the Father of lies and liars such as he is▪ And to some of his Principal matter I shall briefly Answer▪ from whence the Reader may easily Judge what Spirit the rest of J. Horne's Babylonish stuff in his Book came from.  
In Pag. 3. J. Horn chargeth us, with being an Envious and imbittered People, who hiss like Serpents out of the holes. This is one J. H. his malicious Slanders, for we are in that Power wherein we are a Torment to him and such liars as he is, and in that we can tread upon such Serpents, and not be stung though they shoot forth their stings against us.  
In P. 5. J. H. Chargeth me with making the Asserting of the sayings of the Holy men of God, a Warring for the devil's Kingdom. Which is a lie and a Slander against me, for I make his perverting of their sayings (in which he contends for Sin, which is the devil's work to continue in all, and all to be Sinners, so long as they live) a Warring for the devil's Kingdom, since that where Sin is destroyed by Christ, 1 Joh. 3. 7, 8. there the devil's Kingdom cannot stand. And what confusion is this J. horn in, in his Warring for this his father's Kingdom? One while he pleads that the Prophets and Apostles had Sin in them, and were Sinners so long as they lived, as in Pages 5. and 26. and for it brings Ecc. 7. 20. 1 Kin. 8. 46. when at other timees both he and T. M. have admitted of a further state that the Saints attained to then being Sinners while they lived, for they have said that they might have Sin in them, when they did not do it, and that they that were born of God could do nothing against the Truth, 2 Cor. 13. 8. so that when the Saints sinned not, or did not sin as they have granted than they were not sinners, so in their accusing them, with being sinners so long as they lived, they have showed their Deceit and confusion.  
J. H. His Reason to prove that no man is perfectly freed from Sin in this Life, is, that Sicknesses, Diseases, and mortality that came in by Sin, abides upon all men till the death, yea and the bodily death that came in by Sin abides upon all till the Resurrection, he saith.  
In which he hath showed his falsehood and Ignorance, for does sickness abide upon all men till death? Surely than he would make all men live a sad life, if Sickness be upon them all their Life time. Again some of the Righteous may be liable to sickness or diseases through natural Causes, as hunger, cold, outward sufferings (which Christ's when he was upon Earth, also suffered and was subject to infirmities as they confess, yet that does not Argue therefore that the Righteous are not freed perfectly from Sin in this Life, no more than it Argues that Christ had Sin; and the death which they die, who die in him which is gain to them, did not come in by sin, but that death which is already upon all the wicked though living, as also sickness may come as a Judgement upon such; and to his saying that bodily death abides upon all till the Resurrection, I say, what bodily death than came upon Enoch, Elijah or Melchizedeck for Sin? and where died they that death? Gen. 5. 24. Heb. 11. 5, 2 King. 2.  
And where I proffered to be willing to prove against J. H. (If lawfully called) either in the Market place, Steeple house, &c.  
1. That he J. H. is out of the Life, and steps of the true Ministers, and in the steps and Practices of Deceivers, and so is a Hypocrite and no Minister of Christ, who being a Parish Priest is Guilty of the priest's Iniquity whom he hath declared against.  
2. That he upholds a dead Formal Worship like the World, &c.  
3. That his Ministry wherein he contends for Sin, is Antichristian, and both against the Commands and promises and Works of God, and tends to the making both the Preaching and Praying of Christ and the Saints Ineffectual.  
4. And that he the said J. H. is a Forger of lies, a false Accuser, a Slanderer, and so one of the dragon's Army who was wroth with the Woman that brought forth the man-child, and the Remnant of her Seed that kept the Commands of God; These I charged J. H. with, and proffered to make them good against him, to which he saith, P. 6. My foolish Challenge (as he calls it) he shall not accept, &c.  
To which I say, ah! J. Horn, thou wast herein touched; what wast thou afraid to have thy works tried and brought to light? this showeth thy Guilt; but thou knowest I was not afraid to meet thee upon thy Challenge, and to Vindicate the Truth, which thou hast split thyself against for all thy boasting, and what thinkest thou, art thou clear from the Deceivers Practices, and the Parish priest's Iniquity, when thou art Preaching for Hire and pleading for it and tithes? did ever Christ's Ministers plead for and take tithes as thou hast done? and dost thou not think your steeplehouse worship, whereunto persons are called by a company of Bells, is dead and Formal and your Singing David's words (and Experiences) in rhyme and Meeter, and Preaching by an hour glass? where hast thou Scripture for these your Practices? I Queried thee about them in a Paper I sent thee, a great while ago, which I never yet received an Answer to, thy guiltiness in these and many other things plainly may be seen.  
And in P. 6. Thou sayest, thou sent me word that thou should henceforth have no more to do with me, but according to the Apostles Counsel, Reject us. But thou may see thou hast herein lied again, for wherefore hast thou scribbled so much confused stuff against us (if thou intended to have more to do with me?) and against me in particular hast thou shown thy venom the most.  
In P. 6. Again thou sayest, Thou shalt not go about to plead thy own Cause but leave it to God, and rather take good Hezekiah's course when Sennacherib railed upon him, that would not have him answered again; Herein hast thou shamefully lied again, for thou hast gone about thorough much of thy Book to plead thy own Cause and hast not taken good Hezekiah's Counsel as thou hast pretended, but hast answered again though to thy own confusion.  
And in Pag. 7. Where thou sayest, The Quakers would be thought to be better than the Prophets and Apostles, This is thy lie and slander, J. H.  
And in Pag 8. To my saying, the true Prophet says all his Judgements were before me, and as for his Statutes I did not depart from them, I was also upright before him, and have kept myself from my iniquity, 2 Sam. 22. 24 but thou sayest that David acknowledges he had then Iniquity, for how was Iniquity his, if there was none in him? In which thou hast perverted David's words, for David saith he kept himself from his Iniquity, and did not depart from the Statutes of the Lord, so that then he was not a Sinner: and our transgressions and our Sins the Saints spoke of, when they were washed from them, and their transgressions done far from them, Psal. 103. 12. Rev. 1. 5.  
In P. 9 J. H. Saith, It is true too that God promises that his People shall be all Righteous, and clean from all their filthiness, &c. and that God is performing his promises to them, that they may all be perfectly Righteous, even in themselves in the New Heaven and Earth, and New Jerusalem where shall be no unclean thing, he saith: To which Reply, In this hath John Horn overthrown his former Doctrine, for if the People of God shall be cleansed from all their filthiness, as in Ezek. 36. 25. and be all perfectly Righteous in the New Jerusalem, than they are not to be Sinners, nor have sin in them so long as they live, as J. H. hath affirmed, for the Saints before their decease, were come unto New Jerusalem, and to be Citizens there, and to a Kingdom that could not be shaken, into which no unclean thing could come; and to see the removing of the old Earth, and Heaven which were shaken, Ephes. 2. 19 Col. 1. 13. Heb. 12. which yet J. H. and all such as he, who are contending for the devil's work are Ignorant of.  
And as for those that John saw, Rev. 14. who were without fault before the Throne of God, I. H. saith, all that heartily believe in Christ, and are not moved away from the hope of the Gospel it is Christ's Office to present them holy unblameable, and without Reproof in God's sight, Col. 1. 22, 23. not because they are sinless in themselves, he saith. Mark his confusion and deceit here, according to J. H. his words here, the Saints who are without fault before the Throne of God, and holy blameless, and without Reproof in God's sight are Sinners notwithstanding; as if sin were no fault, and not to be Reproved or blamed in God's sight; Oh! what darkness and deceit art thou in I. H. what art thou wholly past feeling? dost thou not know in thy own particular that every Sin thou hast is reprovable, and art thou not Reproved in thy own Conscience by the Light for it? surely thou art exceedingly hardened, and hast denied Christ's Office in thy contending for sin to continue even in them whom Christ presents Holy unblameable and without reproof in God's sight, who live not to themselves but unto the Lord.  
And in P. 10. I. H. Saith, He that in such a sense as in 1 Joh. 1. 9 confesseth his Sins is Righteous as Christ is Righteous, for Christ is his Righteousness and yet he that confesseth his sin is not without sin in himself,: In which he hath uttered Blasphemy against Christ, for Christ hath no Sin in himself to confess, as they have who are but confessing their Sins which they have, who are not freed from Sin; for they who are Righteous as Christ is Righteous, do witness Sin condemned in the flesh, and destroyed, and walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit being purified from all the filthiness of flesh and Spirit.  
And to my saying, that Paul witnessed the groaning and travelling in pain before the Birth was born in him or before he was Born of God (which I. H. hath deceitfully perverted, and wronged my words about) and that Paul spoke to Conditions below his own (to the Romans) which I. H. saith, cannot be true, and the other too, for if Paul was but then groaning to be born, and not born of God, he spoke of his own state, and if he spoke to others states below his own, than is it not true that he had, while an Apostle a time in which he was not born of God.  
To which I say, in this hath he showed his blindness and falsehood, for he hath not a ground for these cavals against me, in that I never affirmed, that Paul was but groaning to be born of God when he wrote to the Romans; nor that he was not born of God when an Apostle, but I know he witnessed the groaning, and travelling in pain before the free born state was witnessed in him, as also after he was come into that state himself, he suffered with the body where it suffered, and travailed for its redemption where it was not redeemed; which body was not one member but many, and for the suffering seeds-sake in those members, Paul condescended to states below his own, even when he wrote to the Romans, all which he himself could not then be in, when he so wrote, yet a sufferer and a traveller under all those burdens which the body under went, about whose condescending, I have more fully writ in that Book called the Quakers no Deceivers, Page 14. 15, 16, 17. the truth's whereof J. H. cannot get over for all his cavails.  
And where thou sayest J. H. in P. 9 that the temptations God tries his People with, are to try and purify their faith from the mixtures therein,  
In this thou art ignorant of the faith of God's elect, and the mystery of it, for it is pure and stands in the power of God, where there is no mixture of sin, it being of another nature than sin, for it worketh sin out.  
J. H. in P. 16. Speaking of the birth which is born of God, he saith he denies not but in that birth there might be degrees and growth after, nor will the perfection of it be as to the body, till the resurrection thereof from the Dead.  
To which I say, that birth thou never knew, nor its perfection: For how could the body be a Temple for the Lord, if the perfection of the birth be not as to it? For the Saints were born of water, and the Spirit which cleansed them from all filthiness of flesh and Spirit, so that they became members of his body, of his flesh and of his bone.  
J. H. saith The Prophet Isaiah, doth not witness that in them a Child was born, and a Son in them was given.  
Answ. Christ was the first born in many Brethren, {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman}, Rom. 8. 29. and was not Isaiah one of these brethren? Who also had been as with Child, Isaiah 26. 17. Jer. 30. 6.  
And where in P. 19 thou chargest R. H. and me with counting Christ's coming in the flesh to be but a figure, in this thou hast belied us, for it was never so affirmed by us.  
J. H. saith, Some did believe in the Light, before they believed that Jesus is the Christ; as Nathaniel and Cornelius, and divers others.  
Answ. Where proves he that by Scripture? For Christ is that Light, which Cornelius and others believed in, who is not divided: His words here implies, as if they that believe in the Light, believed in they knew not what. If they believed not Jesus to be the Christ, when they so believed: And my saying a man must believe that Jesus is the Christ, and believe in him too, before he be born of God, as Christ said, believe in the Light that ye may be the Children of the Light, of this J. H. says, what is this but to fight against the Apostle John, 1 John 5. 1. and says I stick not to make John a liar, P. 21. In which he hath shamefully lied, for I own what John said, and I spoke according to Christ's Testimony, who put believing in the Light before being Children of it; for they received Christ, and believed in his name, that they might become the Sons of God, John 1. 22. and 12. 36 So that J. H. in not owning and believing in Christ before being born of God, implies, that while the birth which is of God, is but in bringing forth in man, before it be born, man is but in the unbelief, while that work of God is but in effecting and not effected, which shows J. H. his ignorance of the new birth, which is not conceived without faith in the Light, before it is brought forth.  
J. H. saith P. 24. That the Creatures deliverance into the liberty of the Sons of God, and the Redemption of the saint body, which they groaned and waited for, Rom. 8. 19 20, 21, 22, 23. could not be before those Saints deceased (for saith he) the Apostle (vers. 17, 18,) speaks about their sufferings with Christ, and reigning with Christ, and speaks of the sufferings with him, as first, and the reign as a thing afterward; the sufferings are of this present time or life, but the glory is to be after revealed, and therefore spoken of as in the future to this present time.  
Answ. Here you may see the liberty of the Sons of God, and the redemption of the body, which the Saints in their life time groaned and waited for, and the reigning with Christ, and the revealing of his glory in the Saints; all these hath J. Horn put afar off, as things not attained by any in this life, in all which he hath showed himself void of understanding, and hath denied the Sons of God their liberty and privileges, and so hath denied the end and effect of the Saints travail and sufferings, and the work of the Spirit of adoption, which was sent into their hearts, and of the Son of God who was made of a woman, made under the Law to redeem them that were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption of Sons, Gal. 4. 4, 5, 6. and that adoption reacheth to the body of the believers, and was its redemption, which for a time it groaned, and waited for, Rom▪ 8. and the Saints were brought to reign with Christ upon the Earth, and made partakers of his glory, being made more than conquerors in Christ thorough their sufferings, and even then the Spirit of glory, and of God did rest upon them, Rom, 8. 37. 1 Pet. 4. 14.  
And what gross darkness is it for him to say, the Creatures deliverance into the glorious liberty of the Sons of God could not be before the Saints deceased, as if it were not possible to be so.  
And whereas from J. Horn's not owning that the Saints may attain to the redemption of the body, before the bodies be raised out of the grave, (according to his wores) I said from this, than Paul is not yet come to the redemption of his body, which so many hundred years since he groaned and waited for, seeing that the Resurrection of the bodies is not yet come: Oh! how J. Horn is vexed at me ' for thus discovering his blindness, as in P. 25▪ he shows his venom in calling us, wicked and corrupt, and poor shifting, for he saith, the Fathers that died in the faith, received not as then the promises, and that Abraham hath not yet received all the promises for which he hoped, which is another case than Paul's groaning and waiting for the redemption of the body from the bondage of corruption, for the Scripture does not say, that Abraham groaned and traveled, for that which he hath not yet received; for it's said that these all died in the faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar oft and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, Heb. 11. 12, 13. but hath not Abraham now received the promises which was to him, viz. seen the increase of his seed, and received the Heavenly City and Country, which he and the Martyrs (spoken of in, Heb. 11.) died in the hope of? Since th●●Abraham yet liveth, and is in the everlasting kingdom, but 〈◊〉 is besides J. H. his matter about Paul's not yet being come to the redemption of the body, from the bondage of corruption, which so many hundred years since he groaned and waited for, which bondage of Corruption J. H. and T. M. have accounted to be the Corruption of mortality in which the body corrupteth in Death and in the Grave, as also they have called it rottenness in their other Book P. 48. from which it follows that Paul groaned, and waited for his body to be redeemed from the corruption and rottenness in the Grave, before ever the body was either Dead or laid in the Grave, or corrupted there: And thus their sottishness appears, so that this we may lay down as their principle, that the redemption of the body from the bondage of corruption, which so many hundred years since Paul groaned and waited for (when he lived) he hath not yet attained to it.  
Alas! then they would make poor Paul have a long travail and suffering, as also according to what they say in their other Book, Page 47. 48. viz. That it was the Apostles part to groan after the redemption, till Christ's descending from Heaven, (which they say is not till after the decease)  
And whereas I said, that Asa's heart was perfect with the Lord while he did that which was right in the sight of the Lord (which might be all his days, till that was written in, 2 Cron. 15. 17, 18, 19) but not when his heart was departed from the Lord, and he turned into the Rage, Oppression, and Persecution (nor when he was in the natural state) which is clear ●●cording to 2 Chron. 16. 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. J. H. saith that is a gloss of my own brain against the authority of the Text.  
But I. H. can neither overthrow my Answer about this, nor clear himself of it, for was Asa's heart perfect with the Lord, when he relied not on the Lord? and when it was departed from the Lord? and when he was in rage with the Prophet of the Lord, and put him in Prison? and when he sought not to the Lord but to the physicians? If I. H. urge, that he was perfect all his days, it seems his confidence and faith is grounded upon the History chiefly as the foundation of it; and yet he will but stick to such places of it in the letter, as he thinks may serve his turn, and other places he can turn and wrest▪ But seeing his confidence is such in the Letter, or those histories of the Kings, I'll ask him if these two places be both infallible and in union? viz. in 2 Kings. 8. 26. it's said two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to Reign, and in 2 Chron. 22. 2. it's said forty and two years was Ahaziah when he began to Reign, and see 2 Kings 9 27, 28. and what are all these the word of God and in unity?  
And where in P. 29. thou J. H. accusest me with alleging the sleeping in security, (against which the Apostle warns them, ●● Thes. 5. 6.) as an interpretation of the sleeping in Jesus, In which thou hast shown thyself a gross and impudent liar, for I never put such an interpretation upon the sleeping in Jesus, for it was publicly known at our dispute, that I plainly distinguished between the sleeping in Jesus, and the sleeping in sin or security, as also I suppose your own relation of the dispute may prove thee false in this thing.  
And another of thy lies, is, that I did never confess that coming of Christ from Heaven, and that bringing with him them that sleep in him, and raising the dead in Christ, the Apostle speaks of 1 Thes. 4. which I have often confessed and witnessed to, but against thy lies and lying imaginations.  
And where I charged thee with pleading for sin, and that thy Ministry tends to keep people in it, thou sayest, which reflects upon the Apostles equally with you, P. 31. In this haste thou also lied, for the Apostles never set forth two such Books chiefly in contention for sin and deceit as thou and thy brethren in iniquity have done; nor ever pleaded for wearing cuffs and ribbons and such like things, as you have done, nor did they say the Prophets and Apostles were sinners so long as they lived as thou hast done, P. 26. so that thou art not at all fit to be compared to them who art in so much deceit and lies, and yet thou hast called God to thy witness, and reckoned thyself with the just P. 28. 32. and again in thy deceit hast gone about to vindicate thy saying thou wast able to worry me and such foxes; which thou hast not yet done for all thy malice, though it's evident thou art more like a worrier (or wolf) than a Lamb.  
And in page 33. J. H. propounds this for the Readers usefulness, viz. that the same persons that believe, are considerable as they are men and women, and have natural beings of souls and bodies, as springing from Adam by propagation, and so they are sinful, mortal, subject to many infirmities, and have members on earth to mortify, and yet the same persons as they are by the grace of God begotten to know and believe in Christ, and reckoned after him have another state in him, which is not reckoned after Adam, and what they are in themselves, and so they are Saints holy, spotless, complete, He saith.  
I Answer. Was there ever such deceit and confusion as this? did you ever hear of sinful, mortal, holy, spotless, complete Saints and believers in Christ? or did you ever read in Scripture of a sinful spotless Saint? Thus madly hath J. H. accused the Saint●, and pleaded for sin which in his father's work, who before accounted such sinners as are without fault before the Throne of God, and whom Christ presents holy, unblameable and without reproof in God's sight, P. 9 as if he had told us of unblameable sinners, and sinners without fault: And as for his counting the spotless Saints sinners in themselves as propagated from Adam, he hath showed his blindness and deceit, for the spotless Saints are come out of Adam's state and are no more subject to his transgression by propagation or natural issue, than the children's teeth are set on edge by the Fathers eating sour grapes, Jer. 31. 29, 30. For they are come into Christ the second Adam's state, and live not to themselves but to him, so the twain is made one, and they are one new-man in Christ, in whom he that abideth sinneth not.  
And after that J. H. hath pleaded for his laughing at the dispute whereby his lightness scorn and madness appeared, Eccles. 2. 2. in Page 34. he saith that none that saw things rightly could see Truth with us, damping or confuting him, for then could he not have laughed or rejoiced over us he saith.  

* This is another such a reason as I Horns saying that he is not a dumb dog for he could worry me, &c.  I Answer, This is a sottish reason, for could not the Truth on David's and the true prophet's side confute and damp their enemies, when they laughed and scoffed at David, and the true Prophets, as I. H. Hath laughed and scoffed at us, so that his scoffing and laughing at us, does not anrgue the truth to be on his side, but rather showeth his impudence, vain glorying and profaneness, which is largely gone abroad.  
And whereas I. Horn said, the King Christ shall rejoice in God, and every one that swearsby (●r comfesses) him shall glory, and to prove it brought Psal. 63. 11. To which I say, if every one that swears by Christ shall glory, then must the drunkards and liars and all such profane persons, as swear by him glory, about which I. H. charges me with reviling and blaspheming the very words of Scripture, & calls me a desperate deceiver, in which he hath both belied me and my words, and slandered me, for I neither reviled nor opposed the very words of Scripture, but witnessed against I. Horne's saying, that every one that sweareth by Christ shall glory, which he would falsely put upon Scripture▪ for the words are not so in the Scripture, Psal. 63. 11. there's not Christ mentioned, for that was in the time of the Law before Christ came when oaths were used, so that he in encouraging men to swear by Christ, hath denied Christ's Doctrine, which is, swear not at all, Mat. 5. and so hath given liberty to the drunkard's practice; and then he telling of his explication of the word swearing, by the word confessing, as he saith its explicated in, Rom. 14. 11. and Phil. 2. 11. In which there is no mention of swearing by Christ at all, but of every tongue confessing to God, and of confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord. Oh! how sadly hath I. H. come off here and shifted for himself, what doth he make swearing by and confessing Christ all one? then he would make all the Saints who confessed Christ swearers and so transgressors of the Doctrine of Christ, which was against swearing, but not against confessing Christ.  
Again this impudent man I. H. amongst others of his falsehoods he accuseth me with; he is not ashamed to charge me with saying, that the 63. Psalm verse 11. tends, to encourage drunkards, and with saying that the Apostles and Proph●●●, when they confessed sins were not true believers, with many other lies: Truly I. H. of all the liars and false accusers that ever I met with, thou art one of the most expert to tell lies and falsely to accuse, thou hast sure been long discipled in they father's work, who was a liar from the beginning, or else thou couldst not be so expert in it.  
Again, how falsely and poorly com'st thou off, in saying, that in my asking, why should Christ teach his to pray, that his will may be perfectly done in Earth as it is in Heaven; if it be not in this World to be done? in this thou sayest, that  
I Reply, There is nothing to be prayed for, but what is here to be enjoyed in this Word: In which thou hast again lied, for that is none of my reply, but this is my Reply, That thou hast appeared against the end, for which the Disciples of Christ Preached as he taught them, who prayed, that his Fathers will might be done in Earth as in Heaven; which thou I. H. hast denied to be so done in this World: But Christ's Testimony contradicts thee; for Christ saith, what things soever ye desire when you pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them, Mar. 11. 23, 24. And they desired the will of God to be done in Earth as it is in Heaven, where there is no sin: Which my Reply is truth and stands clearly over thee, and overthrows thy sinful Doctrine about the Prophets and Apostles being sinners so long as they lived; And thy telling of sinful Saints that are spotless, Pages 26▪ 33. and such thy sinful Doctrines tends to make the Saints unbelievers, and their praying in effectual, when they prayed that the will of God might be done in Earth as it is in Heaven.  
And to thy saying That I would exclude the coming of Christ in glory, and his glorious kingdom out of your Prayers, for that is in the World to come, thou sayest.  
I Answer, Indeed, thou hast already excluded these things out of thy Prayers thyself, who art in thy wickedness and unbelief, and putting the glorious kingdom a far off, (as appears) as not to be come to in this life, contrary to the Saints faith, who were translated into the kingdom of the dear Son of God when upon Earth, which kingdom was everlasting and glorious, and stood in the Power of God, into which no unclean thing can come.  
And where thou I. H. sayest, Thou shall add no more to G. W. but leave him to the Lord's convincement, and silencing.  
Indeed it's high time for thee to give over, and add no more indeed; for thou hast added enough folly and falsehood against G. W. and the Truth cotended for by him, to manifest thy folly and Lying Spirit to the Nation, and if thou add any more to G. W. hereafter, since thou hast promised to add no more to him, but to leave him to the Lord's Convincement and silencing, thy Lying Spirit and deceit, is like further to be discovered to the Nation: And thy craving forgiveness for one of thy lies will not hide thy many more, and much more of thy Confusion I have passed by, and more of thy Aspersions and slanders, which are chiefly against me I have waved as not worth mentioning and trample them under my feet as the dust, knowing that the Lord will recompense them into thy own bosom one day, and Judge thee for them. And as for what thou Layest upon Richard Hubberthorne, it's but like the Rest of thy frivolous false stuff, and his Innocency and uprightness will clear him from thy aspersions; when thy wickedness and lies will stink and appear odious both in the sight of God and men.  
And, oh! how hath thy deceit appeared in thy sending so many Questions to R. Hubberthorne, as thou hast done? and for what end didst thou send them? seeing that thou and thy Brother Moor have pretended as if you sufficiently knew our Principles already; and said in a Paper to me as that you sufficiently discovered our corruptness before; and that you would not own us to be such good Doctors as to learn of us; nor needed further discover us; So if thou didst neither send these questions to R. H. to Learn of us, than thou sent them in vain, and it was in thy foolishness, but thy wicked ends which thou hast not yet fulfilled against us are easy to see.  
And where thou accusest R. H. Of denying that there be many such Angels and Spirits, as the Scripture declares, and of denying the Resurrection of the Body, as will appear if he clearly speak out his mind in Explication of his said Answer, thou sayest. In both these thou hast belied him, and hast falsely accused him without understanding his mind, as also thou sayest his Answer cannot be understood unless it be known what be these two Seeds, and therefore Queriest of him, and a little after, thou challengest him for explaining his Answer, before it can he seen to agree with the Apostles doctrine of the Resurrection. See how thou betrays thy own malice, falsehood and folly against R. H. for it appears by thy own words here, that it is not known to thee, whether he deny the Resurrection in his doctrine, or whether he own it according to the Apostles Doctrine, except he further explain his Answer; and then thou hast Judged him for denying the Resurrection without understanding him, and art like the natural men whom the Apostles Reproved, who spoke evil of the things they understood not, and could not cease from sin, 2 Pet. 2. 12. 14. and thou art never like to understand us aright, while thou in thy malice sets thyself to belie and bespatter us with thy falsehoods, and sets thyself against the Truth, as thou hast done: Thy malice and enmity doth sadly darken and blind thee, so that all people ought to take heed how they follow or believe thee and such as thou art, lest they be Leavened with the same malicious Spirit that Rules in thee, and become as blind as thou art, and so fall into the ditch with thee, and that generation of Deceivers and Hirelings whose way thou art in; who are guilty of the blood of souls for destroying them, and diverting their minds from the simplicity of the Gospel, and your doubtful conceptions and vain Imaginations, which God is confounding and will bring them to nought.  
London in the 6. Month, 1660.   

R. H. His Answer to JOHN HORN.  
IN thy Answer to my Queries thou seemest ●o be Resolved to say something, although it be absolute contrary 
J. H.  to the Truth, and to that which thou knowest to be Truth as will appear in what follows.  
In Answer to my first thou sayst; Christ in his Spirit Ascended up to Heaven, when his Body was upon Earth, is this an Answer to the Question? is the mind or Spirit, called the Son of man according to John 3. 13. which came down from Heaven? and no man doth Ascend up to Heaven but the Son of man, which was then in Heaven; so by this thy Answer it appears then, that the Spirit is the Son of man, and that there is no other Son of man that Ascends into Heaven but the Spirit: than what becomes of that Body thou speaks of, if the Spirit only be that Son of man?  
In thy Answer to the 2. and 3d. Queries, thou provest In thy way, that Mary did that which was forbidden by Christ, when she held him by the Feet and worshipped him, but in Mat. 28. 9 there is no forbidding of her to touch him, but this is plainly manifest that thou art in a snare, and cannot tell how to get out, and yet thou wilt be saying something though thereby thou more ensnare thyself: but this Scripture thou wilt once know fulfilled, the wicked shall be silent in darkness.  
When thou shouldst Answer to the Fourth, thou tellest of its being a secret and of prying into things above what is written: although the ground of my Query is grounded upon that which is written in Luke 24. 4.  
To the Fifth thou sayst that the Women did distinguish which was Christ was certain, but how they did so is a foolish curious Question: what certainty is there that they did know, when thou knowest not how? but this is like the rest of the priest's Doctrine, beating the air, and leaving all People in uncertainties and yet would be paid for so doing; but the Lord hath made thee manifest with the rest, that you cannot deceive much longer.  
To the Sixth thou sayest the two Angels were seen visibly, but were not bodies nor Persons of men; but in thy Answer to the Fourth sayst, that they both saw them as men, and heard them speak and had two Individual Forms; Now if thou were but simple, and not wilfully blind, thou mightst be the more excused.  
In thy Answer to the Seventh, thou art more lost and confused then in all the rest, for when thou shouldst Answer who were the 11. Disciples that were met together, mentioned Luke 24. 33. Thou sayst that Thomas might occasionally be gone out.  
Answ. If he was gone out, than the 11. was not together, as Luke 24. Again thou sayst that Matthew was chosen before the Evangelist wrote this Book; what Darkness and Ignorance is this? thou art not Questioned when the Book was written, nor when Matthew was chosen, but who was the Eleven that was together? and whether was Matthew one of the Eleven seeing he was not then chosen, when Christ did arise from the dead? but there needs not much be said to thee, only to let thee see thy own folly, lest thou should say thou art wise.  
To the Eight thou seemest to Affirm, that the Scripture are to be taken as they speak (and not otherwise a Mystery.  
Answ. Then why dost thou and the Priests give meanings to the Scriptures, and do not let People take them as they speak, but makes them such a Mystery without your meanings, and so plain with them? but this is thy Practice and Doctrine to condemn thyself in the thing that thou allowest, and builds again that which thou hast destroyed, and so makes thyself a Transgressor.  
Lastly in thy conclusion thou falsely chargest me: that I do not believe that any of these things mentioned in these Scriptures to be really done. which is not my Faith; for I do believe that those things mentioned were really done and fulfilled as the Scripture speaks, but it is no new thing with thee to accuse falsely, and to make Lyes thy refuge; but what in all those things thou hast done against me, I do forgive thee, and do warn thee for the time to come, that thou go not on to commit the unpardonable Sin against God and his Spirit, never to be forgiven.  
Again in thy last Paper thou declarest thy Ignorance of the two Seeds, and askest what be those two Seeds?  
Answ. These two the Scripture speaks of, the Seed of the Woman, and the Seed of the Serpent.  
2. Who did or doth sow them Seeds?  
Answ. God doth sow the one, and the wicked one the other.  
3. Where be they sown?  
Answ. In man.  
4. When be they sown?  
Answ. When man had a being, and a body to receive them.  
5. What be the bodies they shall rise with?  
Answ. Their own bodies according to their own natures the one pure, and the other defiled.  
6. Whether be these two Seeds, and two bodies in all the world or two Seeds in every man, and the two bodies to or in every man?  
Answ. The Seeds are but two in the whole world, having each Seed its own body, and in every o 〈…〉 e one be cast out.  
7. When shall those Seeds arise, or be raised, whether after the bodily death or after spiritual death?  
Answ. Every one in Its own order, after the death of that which is born of the Flesh, and also after the death of the spiritual wickedness, which is yet alive in all hirelings and Deceivers (such as thou art) where the Seed of God is yet in its grave.  
8. What are the graves these are in, and out of which they shall arise?  
These of which the Scripture speaks, which when thou comest to understand it, thou wilt understand both the Seeds and graves of which we speak, Christ the Seed made his grave in the wicked; and in the rich in his death, and out of that grave shall rise with his Body into everlasting Life, if thou canst receive it thou Mayst be satisfied.  
And as to thy 9 Query, Why I say, that the one shall rise into everlasting Life and the other into Condemnation?  
Answ. Because it is so, therefore I say so, and if thou say to the contrary make it manifest, but in this as in other things thy folly and Ignorance is manifest, to ask why I speak the Truth which thou thyself darest not to be Truth,  
R. HUBBERTHORNE.   

A postscript.  
AND T. M. Sen. Thou hast taken a bad work in hand now in thy old age, to join thyself and to appear so publicly with a lying Spirit as thou hast done; But how wast thou licks to do better, when thou hast denied the Lord in thy turning into the way of the covetous Tyth-taking-Parish-Priests, whose deceit thou formerly hadst a sight of, and in part wast made to witness against them; but that zeal and that simplicity which thou hadst then is turned into darkness, and betrayed, and thou become as sottish and as dark an earthworm as the Priests, whom thou hast witnessed against: And thou art become a respecter of persons, and canst bow and cringe under such as be great in the Earth, as they do for their own ends, and thou art by many taken notice of, to be more sottish dead and dark, since so much thou hast partaken of the priest's iniquity, than ever thou wast, and the same enemy and betrayer in thee and thy two Disciples, viz. J. H. and thy Son leads you out to deceive others, with your dreams and imaginations, and to betray the simplicity, and to murder the innocent in others, for which you have a sad account to give; and if thou returnest not to that principle which once brought thee in part to see the deceit of the Priests, but continuest in thy deceit, hypocrisy, and accusing the innocent, and so remainest in sottishness and hardness of heart, thou will be cut off & perish in thy iniquity in thy old age.  
Alas! What silly men are ye? You are never like to gain to yourselves any honour and credit among any that are honest hearted, by your Books and aspersions against the poor Quakers (so called) for it is so common a thing for them to undergo revilings and aspersions even from the vilest of men, as Drunkards, Covetous Idolaters, and the like, that in what you have done you have not shown yourselves any whit more eminent or famous than such, but have merely ranked yourselves in the dragon's Army, with them, in belying and slandering the iunocent.  
THE END,