ILLINOIS UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS AT URBANA-CHAMPAIGN PRODUCTION NOTE University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Library Brittle Books Project, 2015.COPYRIGHT NOTIFICATION In Public Domain. Published prior to 1923. This digital copy was made from the printed version held by the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. It was made in compliance with copyright law. Prepared for the Brittle Books Project, Main Library, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign by Northern Micrographics Brookhaven Bindery La Crosse, Wisconsin 20158 No. 3. The Principal Under Secretary to The Chairman, Unemployed Advisory Board. Sir, Chief Secretary's Office, Sydney, 29 June, 1899. I am directed by the Chief Secretary to inform you that Mr. George Black has been appointed as an additional member of the Board to deal with the question of the Unemployed, and that Mr. Black has been duly notified of such appointment, and requested to place himself in communication with you as Chairman of such Board. I have, &c., CEITCHETT WALKER, Seen.—4/7/99. —— Principal Under Secretary, No. 4. First Progress Report of the Unemployed Advisory Board. 54, Bridge-street, Sydney, 14 July, 1899. To the Eight Honorable G-. H. Reid, P.C., M.P., Premier,— Sir, We, the members of the Board duly appointed to advise the Government in accordance jwith your minute of the 18th March, 1899, and that of the Honorable the Minister for Public Instruction, hereinafter set forth, have the honor to submit the following Progress Report:— The Board met on Tuesday, 23rd May, 1899, at 2*30 p.m. The Secretary read the following minutes :— ' Subject :—The Problem of the Employed. The Treasury, New South Wales, Sydney, 18 March, 1899. Pou many years, at intervals, and constantly since 1890, the question of the Unemployed, and what to do with them, has been pressing itself upon public notice. Public works have been pressed on from time to time, but the trouble has proved to be one whi»K^011centrate(i ^eir attention only upon lJP^g«^sof^ the serious outlook for the wir their consideratioii*t&i,§§«^£^^works, the expeditic the present necessity, leavingSfe^hj^er questic unemployed to a later report. Witntni^'Ubject ,voi*Ls which could be considered as reproductive, ter, the^Bpard decided to ask the Government to give us carrying into operation of which might help to relieve n of providing p&M^anent means for dealing with the in view, communications have from time to time been addressed to you, urging that the considerationof^the Government be given to the following subjects :— 1. For est-thinning.—Information has been furnished to the Board by an officer o£ the Forestry Branch, to the effect that upwards of 200,000 acres of forest land have been thinned,, with satisfactory results. Not only has the expenditure on forest-thinning proved reproductive to the ertent of increasing the number of trees, which averaged in a natural forest from eight to fifteen to the acre, to eighty marketable immature and fifty marketable mature trees to the acre in the thinned pine forests*, but it has also resulted in increasing the grazing capabilities of the land, raising the assessed rent value in some cases from 2f-d. to 5^d. per acre in red-gum forests, and increasing the rental fully Id. per acre in the pine forests. At the very least, the value of our future timber crops has been increased 300 per cent, by reason of the thinning operations carried out. With such satisfactory evidence before them, the Board had no hesitation in suggesting that the work be proceeded with on as extensive a scale as possible. They further suggested that parties of five men, instead of ten, be formed, as there is less difficulty in arranging suitable gangs of five. 2. JBogan Scrub Lands.—The Board were pleased to learn that further blocks were to be thrown open, and urged that the work be carried out in as extensive a manner as possible, in order to provide work for some of the unemployed of both city and country. They also suggested that the men should be sent out in parties of five. 3. Eradication of Prickly-pear.—It has been represented to the Board that large areas of vacant Crown land are being rendered useless by reason of the growth of prickly-pear, and that although private owners and conditional lessees are required to eradicate the pest, it has been found impossible to fully enforce the provisions of the Act in respect to private lands, because the Government have virtually taken no steps to cope with it, except by letting certain land on improvement lease. Large areas of reserves and Crown lands thickly affected with prickly-pear remain uncleared, forming a menace to those who are making praiseworthy efforts to deal with the increasing pest. In many cases the reserves form a series of seed-beds from which the pear is distributed, causing serious losses. The Board, therefore, strongly urged that energetic measures be taken at once to operate on the more thickly-infested reserves in the Hunter District, leaving other lands to be dealt with later. This work, the Board were informed, will ultimately repay the Government, not only by improving the land operated upon, but by saving country so far not affected; and, further, it will afford employment to a number of able-bodied men. 4. Conversion of the City Tramway system, a worlc already authorised—The Board considered that, if proceeded with on a larger scale, this wrork might afford employment to a number of the skilled labourers amongst the able-bodied unemployed. 5.5 5. The Grading of the Southern Railway Line near Murrumburrah.—The Board were gratified to learn that the carrying out of this work had been sanctioned, and that it was estimated to provide employment for at least 2,000 men. They were anxious that this labour should not be secured by recent arrivals from the other Colonies, and suggested that, in addition to the applicants being required to produce electors' rights, in this and similar classes of work, the whole of the men to be employed should be registered at the city or country agencies of the Labour Bureau. Learning that it had been decided to engage all the men on the spot, the Board respectfully pointed out, under date 12th June, that such a course would be very inconvenient to the unemployed of the metropolitan area, some of whom might go down at considerable expense, and then find that they were unsuitable for the work. The Board, there- fore, suggested that a quota of the men from the metropolitan area should be selected through the Labour Bureau in Sydney, and that an officer of the Bureau should be instructed to attend at Harden and ascertain whether the country applicants could produce satisfactory evidence that they were residents in the Colony, and not recent arrivals from the other Colonies attracted by the announcement of the work, and also to facilitate the employment of the men. 6. Duplication of the Milson's Point Railway Line beyond St. Leonards.—The Board were gratified to find that the Railway Commissioners, recognising the importance of giving an improved service to this rapidly-growing district, had recommended the Government to ask Parliamentary sanction for the necessary funds to carry out this reproductive work. The sum of £50,000 was voted last year towards the duplication of portion of existing railway lines, and the Board, not being aware of any reason for delay in proceeding to carry out this work, respectfully urged that steps be taken to proceed with it as soon as possible. This work has the merit of providing reproductive employment upon which the married, unskilled labourers of the metropolitan area, who find a difficulty in leaving their homes, could be employed in the neighbourhood during the most trying season of the year. 7. Drainage of Land in the Gwydir District.—The Boardrascertained that some time ago proposals were made for the drainage of certain lands in the Gwydir District, a work which would benefit half a million acres at the comparatively small cost of £18,000. The proposal had already been favourably considered by the Ministers for Lands and Works, and the carrying of the scheme into operation would not only give employment to a number of unskilled labourers, but would render a large area of Crown land available for settlement. It appears, however, that there is a legal difficulty in the way, but the Board are hopeful that this may be overcome. 8. Repainting Iron Bridges on the Ryde Road.—The Board were informed that the three iron bridges on the Ryde Road are urgently in need of repainting, and therefore asked the Grovernment if they could see their way clear to carry out this work, which would give employment to a number of men who are only able to perform the lighter class of labour. 9. North Sydney Cemetery and Lane Cove River Bridge.—The clearing of land for cemetery purposes at North Sydney, and the construction of a road and approaches to the proposed bridge over the Lane Cove River near Chatswood, it is estimated, will afford employment to 100 men during the winter months. The construction of the road and bridge would afford access from the Field of Mars to Chatswood and the new suburbs on the North Shore like. 10. Repainting Public Buildings.—It has been represented to the Board that considerable depre- ciation of property is resulting from delay in repainting certain public buildings, including the General Post Office, Public Works Office, Lands Office, Colonia|l Secretary's Office, Little Bay Hospital, and other public buildings in the country. The Board urged; that this class of work be proceeded with as expeditiously as possible, as it would have the merit ofi preserving public buildings and giving employment to a number of men. 11. Road to Burragorang Mining Field.—Representations have been made to the Board that the mining field at Burragorang, although only in the prospecting stage, is deserving of the favourable attention of the Grovernment. At least one of the mines has produced encouraging results, notwith- standing the expense the owners have been put to in consequence of being compelled to convey the ore over an almost impassable road in order to have it treated at the Dapto Works. It is said that the present condition of the road not only retards the development of the land already taken up, but also seriously interferes with other prospecting operations. The construction of this road would give employment to a number of the unemployed, resident in the district, or sent up from Sydney for the purpose. 12. Glebe Island.—The Board visited Glebe Island for the purpose of ascertaining whether employment could be profitably found for a number of able-bodied men, and in the course of their inquiries they were informed that about 225 men are at present employed in obtaining and carrying stone for the approaches to the Glebe Island Bridge and some reclamation works. The work in connection with the approaches will, it is stated, be completed in about four or five weeks time, when at least 100 men will be thrown out of employment, unless other work be found for them. The Board were favourably impressed with the possibilities of doing valuable work on this Island by cutting part of it down and utilising the material for reclamation and the construction of walls round the Island for wharfage purposes. The execution of this work would render available valuable sites for warehouses, factories, timber yards, &c., and provide about 4,000 feet frontage to White and Johnstone's Bays, with a depth of water (after dredging the silt) varying from 28 to 38 feet, and about 2,000 feet frontage to Rozelle Bay, where the depth of water has not yet been definitely ascertained. The area of Glebe Island is about 33 acres, and with the reclamations necessary to get deep water, without interfering with the fairway, an area of fully 50 acres would be available. With the exception of the portion used for the Abattoirs the Island is at present practically unoccupied. It appeared to the Board a great pity that such a valuable asset as this could be made should so long have remained unimproved. The Government wharfs already erected are extensively used, and even the additional accommodation now being provided at Darling Harbour will, it is said, be readily taken up when completed. As the demand for wharfage accommodation is in a westerly direction the Board have no doubt that when the work now suggested is completed the Government will find no difficulty in putting it to practical and remunerative uses. Although the Board were strongly of the opinion that the Island improvements, herein suggested, ?an be defended irrespective of railway communication, they nevertheless felt that the time is not far listant when the Government will think it desirable to take into consideration the question of extending she railway, from the suburban line near Petersham, to the Island, and possibly also connecting with the Southern6 Southern line. These connections would add materially to the value of the Government property by affording facilities for the growing export trade, enabling goods to be taken direct from the ship's side to the country, and to warehouses, depots, or factories established on the Island for subsequent distribution. The congested traffic in the tunnel from Redfern Station to Darling Harbour would also be relieved. The improved tram service to Harris-street, with the prospect of an extension westward, owing to the new bridge, will afford easy access to the Island from the business part of the metropolis. The work of partly cutting down, reclaiming, and constructing walls oil this valuable property should, in the opinion of the Board, be carried out without further delay. It would have the merit, not only of giving continued employment to the men already at work there, and whose time will shortly expire, but additional hands to the number of 800 or 400 could be profitably employed on this important undertaking. The work could be carried on without interfering with the Abattoirs, although eventually, if it is decided to retain them on this Island, it might be found advisable to make alterations to suit the changed Condition of the surroundings. It will be seen that the foregoing include the suggested expediting of works for which money has already been voted or Parliamentary sanction obtained, and if expeditiously carried out they would afford relief to a large proportion of the unemployed during the most trying time of the year. Doubtless there are numerous works other than those mentioned by the Board which might be undertaken, and they suggest that the various public Departments be urged to expedite the carrying out of such as are in a sufficiently forward state of preparation for early execution. In dealing with the larger question of devising some scheme by which the unemployed problem may be more permanently treated, the Board paid visits to the Government Asylums at Rookwood, Parramatta, and Newington, to the Hawkesbury Agricultural College, Pitt Town Casual Labour Farm, and other places. During their visit to the Asylums the Board ascertained that a large percentage of the inmates were capable of performing light work—many of these men having been drawn thither owing to their inability to obtain suitable work in private employment. While these places offer a temporary home, dipre is evidence of unsuitableness in their surroundings, which renders it impossible to satisfactorily oDinW the men in any class of remunerative work. The Board find that there is a considerable number of men similarly circumstanced who, from various causes, are unwilling to seek admission to the Government charitable institutions, preferring to suffer their privations in silence and unobserved, in the daily expectation that some light employment may become available. Though some of the suggested works would furnish temporary relief to this class of labour, as well as to the able-bodied men, they will not offer a permanent solution of the difficulty. Before the question can be properly dealt with, a larger and more practical scheme will have to be submitted, and, with that object in view, the Board have now under consideration proposals which, it is hoped, will help to solve the difficult and complex question remitted to tlieirv. Such proposals manifestly require the jtloj t careful investigation and earnest consideration, and further reference to them is reserved for a future rpport. In the course of their investigations the Board deemed it to be their duty, although not properly coming within the scope of their inquiry, to make urgent representations to the Government with regard to the serious danger to the inmates of the Asylum at George-street, Parramatta, should a fire break out on the premises. The building is of five storeys ; :t was formerly a mill, and is entirely unsuited to its present uses. It is overcrowded with 1,100 inmates—no less than 400 of whom are helpless in hospital; and the Board were informed that in case of fire very few could possibly make their escape. The Board were pleased to learn, through their Chairman, that you had called for an inquiry with respect to the representations made, and had carried out your promise to visit the Asylum, with the result that instruc- tions were given for the carrying out of such arrangements as would temporarily meet the requirements of the case. The Board feel it to be unfortunate that their representations, when applied to railway matters only, have apparently been misunderstood. The recommendations of the Board were made in all good faith, and with the sole desire of doing what they could to suggest to the Government means by which the unemployed could be profitably employed, and with no wish to usurp functions or responsibilities which properly belong to trusted officers of the State. They must, therefore, conclude that the comments which appeared in the daily Press must have been made under a misapprehension of the facts. So far the Board's relations with Ministers and public Departments have been of the most cordial nature, one and all expressing an earnest desire to assist the Board in their endeavours to arrive at a solution of the unemployed question. "While anxious to work in harmony with the various Government Departments, the Board feel it incumbent upon them, even at the risk of appearing officious, to unreservedly communicate with you as the head of the Government, if in so doing they can assist in expediting the carrying out of authorised reproductive works in order to afford assistance to men whose condition, at the most trying time of the fear, should appeal to the heart of every humane person in the community. ' SYDNEY SMITH, Chairman. JOHN KIDD. S. T. W HID DON. THOMAS ROSEBY. J. D. LANGLEY. P. SLATTERY. G. D. BUCHANAN. J. H. L. ZILLMANN. J AS. "WATSON. CLEMENT LEWIS. GEORGE BLACK. A. E. Basset Hull, Secretary, 54, Bridge-street, Sydney, 14th July, 1899. No. 5.7 No. 5. Appendix A. Address by the Chairman of the Unemployed Advisory Board (The Hon. Sydney Smith), delivered at the elrst meeting- of the board, held on 23RD May, 1899. The Chairman : The Secretary has just read a copy of the Bight Honorable the Premier's minute, authorising this Committee to inquire into and report upon the best means for dealing with the problem of the Unemployed. It is a subject that I approach with mixed feelings of pain and pleasure—pain because of the regret I feel that any necessity should be found to exist in our extensive and rich territory for such an inquiry, and pleasure that I have, with you, an opportunity of giving a helping hand to assist in relieving those who are unfortunately in distressed circumstances- We find that in the neighbouring Colony of Victoria, where the Unemployed question is said to be in a very acute stage, a similar inquiry is being conducted ; and it is gratifying to know that here I have associated with me gentlemen of an earnest spirit, who will not be dismayed at being called upon to devise . means to place this complex question on a satisfactory footing. It should be a source of gratification to us to feel that we commence this inquiry under the favour- able auspices of the Government and the sympathy of both public and press, who join with us in the desire that we will be enabled to achieve something to solve a question that has engaged the minds of thoughtful and philanthropic men in nearly every civilised country. The fact that we are engaged in such a meritorious work for the benefit of suffering humanity should stimulate us to use our best endeavours to make our labours fruitful and of lasting benefit to those wThose troubles and necessities appeal to our hearts, and whose condition claims the kind sympathy and practical help of all classes of the community. On receipt of the Premier's minute I placed myself in communication with the Chief Secretary, who arranged with the Public Service Board for the appointment of Mr. Hull as Secretary to this Board, and that gentleman lost no time in reporting himself to me, and taking the necessary steps to aconife suitable premises wherein to prosecute our inquiry. I also had an interview with Mr. Creer, the Superintendent of the Labour Bureau, who has promised to prepare a return showing the number of unemployed in the city and country, and to furnish other information which might be of value to the Board. It will be as well, perhaps, in order to give as prompt relief as possible, to first consider schemes that can properly be charged to votes already sanctioned by Parliament, leaving the larger and more important questions, for which Parliamentary sanction will have to be obtained, to be dealt with later. You will, doubtless, at this stage think that I will foreshadow some of the subjects that the Board might see fit to take up. Have no fear of my wearying you with a long address. I realise that in order to be successful our motto must be " Work, not rhetoric." One of the matters specially referred to by the Premier is that of the unemployed whose age might prevent them from obtaining remunerative work, but wpo could perform light work if opportunity offered. Unfortunately, we have numbers of men of this class, jmany of whom have to seek temporary shelter in our charitable homes. As an indication of the extent-pf this class of labour, I may mention that casual inquiry from an officer of one of these institutions revealed the fact that about 400 out of 1,100, with a steadily increasing number, a;t present in that institution, could perform light work of a reproductive character if a suitable place wxre provided. And I am informed that these men would feel less hesitation- about accepting Government assistance if they felt they were doing something, however little, m return for their support. Now, I think the Board's attention might be directed to the extension of the labour settlements Labour Settie- by setting apart areas of land where such men might be employed in producing milk, butter, vegetables, J^tsfora£ed fruit, tobacco, silk, and other kinds of agricultural produce, or engaged in producing or manufacturing occupations which would not come into competition with outside trades, the surplus products, after furnishing the requirements of the settlements themselves, to be applied for the use of gaols, hospitals, and charitable institutions. If directed on practical lines, such labour should lessen the cost of these institutions and afford a light and healthy occupation for men who are at present the recipients of charitable support for which they are doing absolutely nothing in return; and thus putting them on an independent footing would tend to imbue them with a spirit of self-reliance. The selection of different climates for such settlements would also be of great benefit to those men who are suffering from such complaints as are capable of being alleviated by a change of air. An allowance might be made to the men for meritorious work, thus giving them a further incentive to exert themselves and providing them with something tangible to look forward to, and surrounding their unfortunate lot with an atmosphere of hope. We have also been asked to consider the case of the unemployed who are able and willing to do a Abie-bodied full day's work if opportunity offers. This at once opens up a very wide range of reproductive works for men\ consideration, if intelligently dealt with. For the present it will be only necessary for me to refer to a few" avenues of employment which might receive our consideration, although others may appeal to us as/ " ^ equally important, viz., the improvement of our forests, and reservation of lands unsuitable for agricul- ture for forest conservation and planting. Our forest lands open up an extensive field for profitable employment in timber-getting and preparation for use in connection with public works and export. The clearing of our scrub lands in a similar manner to the Bogan country is a remunerative work which can be defended on grounds of practical utility, although in this class of work, as Mr. Carruthers points out, immediate occupation is necessary to keep the scrub under in order to make the work reproductive. The clearing of reserves surrounding our public watering places, public stock routes, and other reserves ought also to find employment for a large number of men. ^ Then, again, more advantage might be taken under the Water Bights and Drainage Act and the Artesian Boring Act. You are doubtless aware that under these Acts the Government are empowered to borrow money to carry out national works, or works for the benefit of private landowners at their request, such as the drainage of lands, the conservation of water for agricultural, mining, or pastoral purposes,8 purposes, the only charge being interest on the coat of construction, with a fair charge for maintenance, in no case exceeding 6 per cent, in all. I am satisfied that many important works under these heads could be carried out which would afford remunerative employment to thousands of men, and also be the cause of settling large numbers of families on the land. I am aware that several large and important schemes have been suggested, and while in no way wishing to discourage such, I hope that the consideration of these will not overshadow the less extensive ones, such as the placing of wfeirs across our rivers, creeks, and other watercourses for the purpose of conserving water which could be turned to profitable use in the directions previously mentioned. Within the last few days a work has been approved on one of our mining fields which, at a cost of £400 (and upon which sum 5 per cent, has been guaranteed), will conserve several million gallons of wrater, thus enabling a considerable number of miners to be employed. I also propose to bring under the notice of the Board several similar schemes which I think will be equally productive. During my visit to the North Coast my attention was directed to large areas of private swamp lands specially suitable for agriculture, which, if drained under the provisions of the Water Rights Act, would maintain a large population at a nominal cost per acre to the settler. A well- known resident of the Hastings and Macleay District estimates 90,000 acres available, which, wTith judicious outlay, could be made highly productive. Another proposal which might receive consideration is that of improving our lands for closer settlement purposes, charging interest to occupiers on the capital cost. This is no new principle, and it has already been applied to the Bogan scrub lands, the construction of water-works, mining and other purposes, and putting down artesian bores. I am satisfied that the same course could be followed with marked success in clearing our lands for mixed farming. To better illustrate what I mean, I would suggest that (say) 200,000 acres of good land should be set apart—a portion suitable for agriculture and a portion for grazing—divided into blocks of sufficient area to maintain a family (say) 300 acres. Clear 100 acres of it fit for the plough, ringbark part of the balance, and supply fencing wire to the occupier as is now done to the lessees of Government tanks, charging the settler interest on the capital expended and the unimproved value of the land. There may be difficulties to overcome with respect to prices for clearing, but any intelligent man with knowledge of the c* »st would be in a position to fix a fair price, and if thought desirable the work could be carried out under the butty-gang system, as in the case of the Murray Eorest. Bujthpse- are niere matters of detail which can easily be dealt with. First let the principle of improving our 5and in this way be settled, and the details will naturally suggest themselves. One of ihe drawbacks at the present time for successful development is the want of capital, and if the initial cost of preparing the land, &c., be overcome, there will be no difficulty in providing a class of men to become producers, contributing to the wealth of the Colony. The value of our estate will be enhanced, and we will receive fair interest on the cost; we will help to settle a happy and contented bady of men on the soil, make small farms ready for occupation, which wrould place the land within the reach of men of small means, thereby increasing the number of producers and adding considerably to the national wealth. Concentration of settlement wjrnld also lessen the cost of administration, and enable the Government to give better facilities for bringing the produce to the seaboard—all tending to that improvement,;of the land which should be the aim of every Government. Private owners, who have to pay 6 per cent, for their loans, do not hesitate tf> borrow money for nse upon the principle referred to, and why should the Government, who can obtaio. a plentiful supply of money at 3 per cent., hesitate to put the principle into practice also ? 1 - . .Ihe third class. To devise a method of treating the third class of men referred to in the Premier's minute requires our most earnest attention ; but as this matter is surrounded with such manifest difficulties, I propose to , make no suggestions at this juncture, being content to leave the full consideration of the question the I future deliberations of this Board. I would merely express an opinion, with which I feel sure yoi^ will agree, that every effort should be made to discourage the practice of relegating these men to houses of correction, but rather that strenuous exertions should be put forth to provide some home or establish- ment to which they might be sent for a short period and employed in reproductive work. My remarks are merely suggestive of some of the lines upon which it might be desirable to direct our attention, along with others which will be submitted as the inquiry proceeds. Appendix B. Statements made by Witnesses to the Unemployed Aotisory Boakd. Tuesday, 23 May, 1899. Mr. Creer, Superintendent of the Labour Bureau, called and examined:— ..Mr. Creer. 1. Chairman.] It is a very difficult matter to give any definite information as to the number of the a—^ unemployed in New South Wales. I suppose we may have from 8,000 to 10,000, but the number 23 May, 1899. fluctuates considerably from day to day. One day in Sydney we may have only 3,000 and a day or two after the number may increase to 5,000. Taken roundly, I would say that the number at present in Sydney is between 3,000 and 4,000, but the number is increasing. Over 3,000 were employed upon the Christmas work of painting the park railings. With the winter coming on the number of the unemployed will increase. Shearing operations will be much less extensive this year on account of the drought; squatters will employ as little labour as possible, so that the men usually employed in shearing, fencing, tank sinking, and other work, will flock to Sydney. 2. With regard to dealing speedily with the question, I would suggest that the Departments concerned should push on with the construction of the lines of railway already authorised; with the conversion of the city Tramways, and other authorised works. If by these means all the able-bodied men were absorbed, it would be less difficult to deal wTith the question of finding employment for aged men wrho are only capable of performing half a day's labour. Of this class I estimate that there are from 800 to 1,000, many being married men with families. Tf the authorised Government works were pushed on, it would relieve the great body of the unemployed. . 3.9 3. Archdeacon Langley^] Included in the 800 to 1,000 old men referred to there are many clerks, Mr. Creer. accountants, &c., who are past heavy manual labour, yet are able and willing to work so far as their strength will permit. Outside of the able-bodied men there are upwards of 100 clerks, compositors, 1899. refer to female servants. 77. Mr. Whiddon.'] In your dealings with the men you have met in connection with the unemployed movement, have you met a considerable number of clerks ? Yes ; also grooms, coachmen, cooks, old soldiers, and ex-policemen. 78. Have you met many clerks or warehouse assistants ? Yes, there was a fair sprinkling of that class. 79. Mr. Schey.] Do you not think that if the number of unemployed men could be largely decreased the number of unemployed women would not tend to decrease in consequence ? That is probable. 80. Are there not a large number of women unemployed at the present time because of the fact that a large number of men are employed ;—have not many women to seek employment because their husbands. are out of work ? Yes, that goes without saying. Alexander Thompson called and examined :— 81. Chairman.] Are you employed in Sydney at the present time ? Yes, as a stonemason. A. Thompson. 82. Have you had much to do with the unemployed question ? I have taken some interest in it. /——^ 83. Can you give us any idea as to the number of unemployed stonemasons ? I should say there would 1899. be about 100. They might be employed a week or so now and again. 84. Do you know how many unemployed there are altogether ? No ; but I should say the Labour Bureau would be no index as to the number. 85. "Why? A very large number of men in the city never frequent the Bureau at all. I do not believe there are twenty men in my trade whose names have been on the list-books. 86. Why do not they go upon the books ? There is never any demand for their labour there. They may also have their private and personal reasons for not going there. 87. Dr. Zillmann.'] Is the Bureau popular with the working-classes ? I do not think it is. 88. Chairman.] What is the reason of that ? It appears to be a place for men to congregate at and play cards. Men who are really anxious for work would not put in a whole day sitting in the yard there. I should say as a citizen of Sydney and as a worker, that it is a most objectionable institution. 89. Do you think there is a good deal of distress at the present time owing to want of employment ? Yes, it is acute ; the distress hides itself very much. There is a large section of the working-classes who are in a most acute state of destitution and who never parade it. 90. Are you aware of any works which might be put in hand at once to relieve that distress ? I know of none beyond the works the Government have carried out of late, such as forest-thinning and scrub-cutting. I should think that men who were aged and inefficient from sickness and other causes might be employed (say) at Bondi or Lady liobinson's Beach in the improvement of the beach. Suggestions have been made .for their improvement. These places are handy to the city and suburbs, and the work would be to a certain extent reproductive. There are also the tramway works ; but I do not think if they were started they would affect the unemployed at all. 91. Do you not think that there are a large number of unemployed who could do that class of work? Yes, but outside of them there are people who follow that occupation regularly, and who are, as a rule, never idle. To meet the difficulty we require some new creation—something which does not exist at present. 92. Archdeacon Langley.~\ You do not think that any present work which can be carried out wTill e\en temporarily meet the distress ? Yes ; if it is something new—altogether apart from the ordinary work. To hurriedly put into operation some work would not meet the difficulty at all. There should be some new creation—some works which have not been proposed up to now. The tramway work would go on in any case, and would give abundance of work to men who are not already unemployed. 93. Chairman.] But still it would relieve the labour market? For a few weeks. 91. What are those who would not take that work doing at the present time ? They are working on other Government work, such as railways, bridges, and wharves. They are, as a rule, men who are skilled in that particular business. 95. Dr. Zillmann.~\ Do you think there is much work done now by the contract system which could be done by the day-labour system ? I think the Government could do most of their own work by the day- labour system. They would get as much in quantity, and a superior quality. 96. Mr. Buchanan.] Do you not think that that would create another class of unemployed? Yes; it means putting out the men who ordinarily follow that occupation. 97. Mr. Kidd.] You mean that it is necessary that some fresh avenues of employment should be opened? Yes ; there is no demand for the labour of these men, and we require an entirely new creation. 98. Mr. Whiddon.'] Is there much unemployed skilled labour ? There is a fairly large percentage of skilled labour. The larger proportion are unskilled. For some reason or other they have become inefficient. 99. What were skilled men have become unskilled men for want"of work ? Quite so. 100. But the majority of them are really unskilled men ? Yes ; day labourers. 101. Mr. Thomas.] You have stated that about 100 masons are at present unemployed ;—do you mean by that statement that 100 men are regularly out of work ;—for instance, if one man gets work to-day, and another finishes a job, is he thrown out ? No; I mean that they are temporarily unemployed. At present there may be 100 men idle with no prospect of getting work for months. 102. I take it that a stonemason would know better than the Bureau where to get work ? Just so. 103. At the same time the Bureau might be of service to the casual labourer? Yes. 104. Mr. Whiddon.] Does the same remark apply to bricklayers ? Yes ; it applies to all in the building trade. 105. Mr. Kidd.] I suppose the bulk of those you speak of, in your trade, have not much prospect oE getting any employment in that trade for some months to come :—if a work were opened up outside their own particular trade, would they be likely to obtain employment in connection with it ? Yes ; a very large number of them have worked as labourers at Shea's Creek. * 106.14, JL Thompson. 106. Mr. Thomas.] I was informed the other day by the Postal Department that they had difficulty in obtaining bricklayers to do the telephone tunnel work ? I would not say that there are a large number 26 May, 1899. 0£ "bricklayers unemployed. Their prospects in the future are somewhat similar to those of the stone- mason. 107. Mr. Kidd.] If] the Board is successful in opening up avenues of casual labour, I suppose those connected with your trade would have no objection to register themselves at the Labour Bureau ? I do- not think so. Tuesday, 30 May, 1899. John Mcintosh, of Ba]main, called and examined:— J. Mcintosh. 108. Chairman.] Have you any statement to make to the Board? A few days ago I went to the Labour Bureau, and drew the attention of Mr. Creer to the fact that there were two iron bridges which had 30 May, 1899. never been scraped nor painted for four years, and that that work would give immediate employment to people like myself. 109. Br. Boseby^] Where are these bridges ? One is the Iron Cove Bridge, the other is the bridge across to Grladesville. The Darling Harbour Bridge also requires painting. 110. Chairman.'] The only work you suggest is the painting of the bridges ? I would draw your attention to the state of Lyon's Road, Eive Dock ; also the Long Bay Road. They require repairing, and would give employment to a number of men. 111. Mr. Kidd.] What trade do you follow ? I have been working with boilermakers at Mort's Dock, Cockatoo Island, and other places. I have done painting work, but I am not what you call a thorough tradesman. I have painted boats at Mort's Dock. Albery Edward Stewart, engineer, blacksmith, and boilermaker, called and examined:— Chairman.'] Are you out of employment ? Tes. Have you been out of employment long P I have worked about six weeks out of fifteen months. I understand that one of the difficulties in connection with your obtaining employment is your age ? I have applied for one or two situations. My last application was for the position of teacher in blacks mi thing at the Technical College. I was informed that being over 40 years of age I had no chance. I may mention that during the time I was chief foreman at Beyer, Peacock, and Co.'s works, Manchester,, a man who obtained a similar situation in Owen's College, Manchester, was over 50 years of age. That man worked with me before he got that situation, and I was very much surprised when I was told that I could not obtain a similar situation on account of being over 40 years of age. 115. What age are you? I will be 50 next birthday, but I am able to work, and my mental faculties are as good as—I might say better than—when I was 40. 116. Mr. Buchanan.] What positions have you occupied since you came to the Colony? The late Engineer in-Chief of the South Australian railways obtained a situation for me in Melbourne to manage the construction of twenty-five locomotives, and other rolling stock, and bridges, for the Melbourne Locomotive and Engineering Company. The twenty-five engines, 500 trucks, and several bridges were completed entirely under my management. My last situation in the old country was as chief foreman over the smithy and forging departments of Beyer, Peacock, and Co., Manchester. I did not come to this country until I was severely attacked with rheumatism, and the doctor advised me to take a sea voyage. I went to the New Zealand lakes. Whilst I was here Dr. Renwick told me that if I went home again I might be attacked by the same complaint, and he advised me to stay. As a result I brought my family out. The situation which I applied for, and to which I have referred, was one exactly in my line. 117. How long have you been in New South Wales ? Three years this last time. 11S. Have you an elector's right? Yes. 119. Dean Slattery.] Are there many men who are refused employment by the Government on account of being over 40 years of age ? I could not say. I may state that the man who obtained the situation to which I have referred had a permanent situation. He was in employment at the time he applied for the billet. 120. Mr. Watson.] In your search for employment, have you found a tendency, if a man shows advancing age-—no matter whether he is physically fit or not—for younger men to be given a preference? "Yes. I may mention that I got a job with Mr. Chaplin, the engineer, in Druitt-street. He said to me, " You are an old man, and will not be of much good." I asked him why. He replied, " I want two sets of winding gear made for engines." I offered to do the work, and did it. He said he was quite surprised with the result, and that he had never had better work turned out in his place. Since then he has sent for me twice to do work. 121. Have you thought over anything which you think would tend to create employment ? One thing which would give employment in the engineering line, would be for the Colony to make its own locomotives. I believe this is the only Colony in the group, with the exception of Western Australia, which is not manufacturing its own locomotives. I have been to two or three firms, but being grey haired they would not give me work. If it were not for my son I would be without a home, and yet I am as able and as willing to work as any man in the country. 122. Mr. Kidd.] Is it not a fact that you are not able to obtain employment on account of requiring a better position than that of an ordinary mechanic? No. I will take a workman's position. 128. Are there many in your trade who are out of employment ? A good many. A.E. Stewart. 112. 30 May, 1899. J] 4, Y PK Monday,15 Monday, 5 June, 1899. [The Board visited the Moohwood and Parramatta (George-street and Macquarie-stree£) Benevolent Asylums, and the Newington Asylum for the Destitute and Infirm.] Alfred William Green, Chief Superintendent of Asylums, was examined as follows :— 124. Chairman.] How many inmates are there in the Rookwood Asylum ? 804. A. Green. 125. How are they employed ? We do all our own farming. We milk 100 cows for the other institutions. _ % We make all our boots and a good deal of our clothing. The cleaning of the place is done by the inmates. ^ June> 1899. We have a staff of four nurses and three male attendants. The whole of the work of the institution is done by the inmates, who are of all ages, ranging from 22 years to 80 and upwards. 126. Have you any epileptics ? Yes. 127. Dean Slattery.] Have you many old men in the institution ? A large number. 128. Chairman.'] Do you find the number increasing? Yes, rapidly. I have at present under my control, in the different institutions, 4,101 persons. 129. Mr, Lewis.] How many are you supposed to accommodate in the Rookwood Institution ? Six hundred. 130. And you are accommodating 800 ? Yes ; we are overcrowded. 131. Dr. Zillmann.] How many have you in each dormitory? We should only have sixty, but we are carrying eighty. 132. Dean Slattery.'] Is there any danger to health on account of the over-crowded state of the building? The place is well ventilated. These are modern buildings. 133. Mr. Whiddon.] What proportion of the inmates are unable to do anything? About 40 per cent. They are aged and infirm, and are able to do absolutely nothing. 134. Mr. Leivis.] How many of the remainder would be capable of earning a living outside? It depends on circumstances. Some of those who come here are convalescents from the hospitals; they stay for a week or two until they become strong, and are then seen by the doctor, who certifies whether they are fit to go out. If they are fit to go out, they go. The inmates are sent here by the Government Medical Officer, and as soon as they are capable of working outside they are, if under 50 years of age, discharged. 135. Mr. Kidd.] Have you many who are on the sick list? Yes, 150. We have not any acute cases; we deal with convalescents. 136. Dr. Roseby.] How do you make up the 4,101 inmates in the different institutions ? There are 804 &t Rookwood; 1,114 at George-street, Parramatta; 376 at Macquarie-street, Parramatta; 925 at Liverpool; 44 at the Cottage Homes, Parramatta; and 838 at Newington. Of the latter 757 are women, the balance being made up of men and boys. The boys are received from the State Children's Depart- ment. 137. Chairman.] Do I understand you to say that you have 40 per cent, of incapables ? Yres ; that is in the whole of the institutions. 138. Dean Slattery.] What is the percentage of incapables at Rookwood ? It is less than 40 per cent. here—not more than 30 per cent. 139. Mr. ThomasT] I understand you to say that the Government Medical Officer in Sydney sends men here? Yes. 140. How do those whom he does not send get here ? Any man who declares himself to be destitute, and incapable of earning a living outside, can get admission here. They have to fill an application form and obtain a medical certificate. 141. Chairman.'] What are the partially able-bodied men employed at? Farming, and cooking. We do the whole of the housework by inmate labour ; also the farming, both here—Rookwood—and at Newington. The inmates also make boots, do the repairs, washing, and so on. 142. Mr. Buchanan.] Do you allow them wages ? A small gratuity. We do not give them wages with the idea of encouraging them to remain in the asylum, but to assist them when they go out. 143. Dr. Zillmann.] Is that irrespective of the work they do ? Yes. 144. How many of the inmates are married ? At present we have twenty-two married couples at Parramatta and fourteen married couples at Newington. Yery few of the others have a wife or husband living. 145. Mr. Whiddon.] Are the married couples housed together ? Yes. 146. Mr. Buchanan.] What proportion of men and women have you ? About 3,300 men and 757 women. The women are at Newington. 147. Have you tried any other industry besides farming? No. We have no industry which competes with the outside market; but we make our own boots and clothing. 148. Mr. Whiddon.] Do you produce vegetables ? All ordinary vegetables, but not potatoes. We have not the soil or climate for producing potatoes. 149. Dean Slattery.] Are you improving the land ? Yes. 150. Have you any cattle ? We milk 100 head here at present, and forty at Newington. 151. Do you grow the fodder for the cows ? Not the whole of it. 152. Have you to buy fodder ? A good deal of it. I may mention that the cost per head of the inmates last year was as follows :—At Rook wood, £13 15s. ; at Parramatta, £13 10s. ; at Newington, £10 10s. ; and at Liverpool, £14. Of course there are more sick at Liverpool. 153. Mr. Kidd.] Is the milk produced at Rookwood supplied to the other institutions ? Yes, at Rook- Avood and Newington. 154. Chairman.] Do you get sufficient to supply them? Yes, with the exception of a little which we purchase at Liverpool for consumptives ; but for the ordinary use of the inmates we produce more than sufficient. 155. Mr. Buchanan.] Have the inmates the option of leaving the institution when they choose ? Yes. 156. Chairman.] Are all the men fully employed ? We occupy the skilled men at bricklaying, carpentering, and making ornamental seats, drains, &c. We employ no skilled labour from outside with the exception of one carpenter and blacksmith. The majority of the inmates are not skilled. 157. Could you make any articles which are not imported to the Colony without competing writh others ? Not without having overseers and plant, and that would mean a great deal of expense. A man may start to-day to make half-a-dozen seats, and to-morrow he may get a job outside, and, of course, he will go. We have to deal with the question of employment from the point of view that our population is always shifting. 158.16 A. W. Green. 158. Lewis.] When they are fit to go outside do yon discharge them ? Yes. /—-A—^ 159. Mr. Whiddon.] "What means has a man who is in here of gettingajob outside? They are always 5 June, 1899. -n touch with the builders and employers generally. 160. Are you in touch with the builders, or are they ? They are. Of course people often apply to us. The artisans who come here have generally been with contractors for a number of years, and they are always on the look-out for a job ; they have means of communication. The builders do not come here and ask for men. We do not act as a labour bureau in any way. If we want a billet for a "man we telephone to Mr. Creer, and tell him; but wre leave the labour-agency business to the Bureau. We do not clash with it in any way. 161. Mr. Thomas.] If a man makes an application—say, to some Charity Board—for admission to the Bookwood Institution, wrhat routine has he to go through to prove that he is entitled to admission ? He is examined by the Medical Officer. 162. Does he require a medical certificate before he can come here ? Yes ; if he is under 60 years of age. 163. Then anyone who is 60 years of age can, because he is that age, demand to come here? Yes, and he is admitted. 164. If a man is under 60 years of age he must have a medical certificate to the effect that he is incapable of doing a full day's work before he is admitted ? Yes. 165. Br. Zillmann.] What medical attendance have you here? A visiting medical officer—Dr. O'Connor. He comes regularly three times a week, and when he is required at other times. 166. How long have you been in charge ? Three years. 167. Mr. Thomas.'] If a man is under 60 years of age, and is capable of doing a full day's work, he cannot come here ? No; he may come for a night's shelter, like any other man on the road. 168. It does not matter how long a man has been out of work, if he is capable of doing a day's work he is not supposed to come here ? No ; we do not deal with the unemployed in any way. These places are simply the homes of the destitute, infirm, and aged. 169. Mr. Whiddon.] Are not many men of 60 capable of doing a fair day's work ? Yes. 170. Supposing the authorities in Sydney see that men of 60 are capable of doing a fair day's work they still send them here ? Yes. 171. Have you many malingerers? No; not so many as one would be inclined to suppose. My experience is that the malingerers are very few. 172. Mr. Kidd.] Is the reason of that the fact that you give them no encouragement to stay in the institutions ? Yes, largely. 173. Dr. Zillmann.] Would it be advantageous to separate the men who are unable to work from those who are able ? To do that you would require a big staff to look after them. At present they mix up with the others, which is far better. 174. Dr. Boseby.] Is there any difference between the George-street Asylum, Parramatta, and the one at Bookwood? JSro ; excepting that there is no farming at George-street. We send the men who are regarded as the strongest to Bookwood. There are a good number of men at George-street who are able to do light work. They are nearly all labourers. There are very few artisans. 175. Chairman.] How many inmates have you in George-street ? 1,114. Of this number 406 are in the hospital. 176. Dr. Boseby.] Is that an unusually large number ? No ; they are suffering from senile decay, and paralysis. 177. What work is done at George-street? Boot-making, laundry-work, tailoring, and so on. 178. Dr. Zillmann.] Is the laundry-work for the men on the premises? Yes; it is done for the whole institution. 179. Mr. Buchanan.] What is the death-rate per thousand ? 8'17. 180. Chairman.] How many men in the George-street Institution could do light work outside ? Sixty per cent, should be able to do w^ork similar to that done at Bookwood. ] 81. How long do the men work per day ? Six hours. 182. What is your opinion of the Government setting apart about 1,500 acres of land for them ? I am thoroughly in favour of farming homes for these men. The great trouble we have with them is drink ; that is what we have to contend with in the neighbourhood of towns. .183. If you had good land, and could employ 60 per cent, of the men upon it, you could, I suppose, produce a good deal ? Yes. 184. Could you, by that means, almost supply the wants of the whole of the institutions ? Yes : pretty well. At present we are making £500 a year out of pig-breeding ; and if we had a farm elsewhere we could make a good deal of money out of pigs, poultry, and so on. 185. Dean flattery.] Are these institutions self-supporting? No; we cannot make them absolutely self- supporting, because there are always 40 per cent, who must be maintained. I am satisfied that 60 per cent, could, keep themselves. The proof of the pudding is in the eating of it. At Newington last year— taking the whole of the decrepits and invalids into consideration—the cost per head was only £10 10s. ; that includes doctors' attendance, and everything else. That shows that the production of the healthy portion must largely pay for the sick portion, because the same patients could not be kept in the Sydney Hospital for less than £30 or £40 per year. 186. Dr. Zillmann.] Do you raise pigs at both Newington and Bookwood ? Yes. 187. Are they used for feeding the different establishments ? No ; we sell them. 188. Mr. Thomas.] Do you give the inmates a fixed diet, or are they allowed to eat as much as they can ? They have a fixed diet except in regard to bread, the allowance of which is unlimited. 189. Mr. Buchanan.] Do you supply them all alike ? Yes. 190. Chairman.] Do you experience any difficulty in getting the 60 per cent., to whom you have referred, to do their work ? A little moral suasion has occasionally to be used. 191. It can be overcome, I suppose ? Yes. I do not find more than 3 per cent, of the inmates are troublesome. We have a few agitators whom we cannot satisfy, and you have to deal with them as a man would deal with anyone else under him. We have no means of inflicting punishment, except by stopping leave or gratuities of tobacco. No one is put on bread and water or anything of that kind. 192. Dr. Zillmann.] What is the tobacco allowance ? Half a cake a wTeek. That they receive under any circumstances. Those who work receive an extra fig per week. 193.17 193. Mr. Thomas I suppose that some of the inmates can eat more than others? Yes. If a man asks A. W. Green, for more there is always sure to bo something left for him. —A—■-\ 191'. I suppose that an inmate who works out in the open can eat more than an inmate who cannot work ^ June> 1899. at all ? Those men are allowed cheese and extras of that kind. I can assure you that the inmates get more than you or I can eat. They are allowed 14 ounces of meat and 14 ounces of bread per day to start with. They are also allowed 12 ounces of vegetables. 195. If a lire broke out in the (xeorge-street institution, how many of the inmates do you suppose would he able to escape? Very few. The accommodation is altogether inadequate for our requirements. The building is over-crowded and is difficult to manage by reason of the large number of persons in it. I strongly favour the idea of establishing farm homes to utilise such labour as is available in institutions of this character. 196. Mr. Whiddo7i.~\ What proportion of skilled tradesmen come to the institutions under your charge? Not more than 3 per cent. With regard to the Maequarie-street institution, I may mention that the bakery there supplies bread to about 3,500 inmates connected with that and the other institutions, and we use 1} tons of flour daily. The kitchen garden at Maequarie-street is rented ground. At Newington there are eight nurses and one matron. Not more than 3 per cent, of the inmates there can be said to be troublesome at all, and only about three altogether are very bad. More than one-half of the inmates at Newington are in the hospital on account of senile decay and other ailments. Those who are not under medical supervision are lightly employed. Thursday, 8 June, 1891). | The Board visited the Ilomebush Bojj and DucJc Rider Reclamation JVorJcs.'] James Walter Grimshaw, District Engineer, Sydney and South Coast, Harbours and Kivers, Public Works Department, was examined :— 197. Mr. Tho mas.'] What is the object of carrying out the Ilomebush Bay Reclamation Works ? The J. W. object is to form land with the silt dredged from tho Sydney Harbour. It was customary, at one time, Grimshaw. to take the silt out to sea ; and that, of course, was money lost. We now bring it to one of our reclama- t ions, pump it ashore, and thus gain the land. 8 ^ime> I8". 198. Dean Slattery.J What is the extent of the reclamation ? 438 acres. 199 Mr. Thomas.'} Is it the object of the Government to sell it as building sites? That could be done ; but as a rule tho reclamations are converted into parks. We formed the fascine-bank which is now in existence (but which is gradually being washed away by the current) and pumped silt into the bay. Before that work was completed the pump was required elsewhere. The current has broken through the fascine- bank in several places, and we are now repairing and facing it with stone. The work was commenced yesterday, when twenty men were put on. These men were obtained through the agency of the Labour Bureau. 200. Do you think the foundations would be good enough for building purposes ? I think so. Of course the situation is lowr—5 feet above high water. The stuff pumped in is of a loose, silty nature, and as it dries it contracts and settles ; and of course it will take time to consolidate. 201. It would not mean damp houses? jSro. 202. Dr. Roseby. ] How will the scheme work out financially ? We have not got so far as to be able to say definitely. When work of this kind has been completed, the land has generally been taken for the purposes of a park. At liozelle Bay, where reclamation work has been carried out, a large timber mill has been erected, and revenue has been derived from it. Another place which is being made use of is White's Bay. There are timber yards there. Those works were undertaken from a sanitary point of view; they were absolutely necessary. Another place we have reclaimed is Bush cutter's Bay. 203. I presume you must have a sand-pump dredge at work ? Yes ; and to supply that sand-pump dredge we must have another dredge which will lift the silt from Sydney Harbour, put it into hoppers, and bring it here. Two dredges are required. 204. Would they have to be built specially ? If this work were to be completed, independent of any other work, they would have to be built. 205. Chairman.] Could you not utilise other dredges? The dredging of Sydney Harbour is a continuous work—it is always going on; the silt is always accumulating. 206. Has not the dredging of the Parrarnatta Biver been talked of for some considerable time ? Yes. 207. And the stuff you took out of Parrarnatta Biver would not only make the river more navigable, but wrould be useful in connection with the Homehush Bay reclamation ? Quite true. 208. Mr. Thomas.] I take it that there are not sufficient dredges at the disposal of the Government; they would have to purchase or build ? Yes, if this work is to be done at once. 209. And that would take time ? Yes. 210. If more dredges were built you could utilise them ? Yes. 211. How many more dredges could you utilise in doing such work as the Parrarnatta Biver improvement ? We have barely sufficient for present requirements ; but if we had two more—one for pumping and one for dredging—we could deal with the Parrarnatta Biver improvements. 212. What would you do with the dredges when this work is completed ? We are buying and building dredges as fast as we can at present; not only Sydney, but the country districts require them. 213. Chairman.] When the work is completed at Ilomebush Bay, you will have any amount of avenues for the employment of the dredges elsewhere ? In all probability. I' may mention, however, that we have dredges lying idle now, because we have not the money with which to pay the necessary wages of men to work them. What is required is a larger Dredge Vote, and more money for the plant. 214. Dr. Roseby.Then, as a matter of fact, we have the dredges, but we have not the money to pay the men to work them ? We have them lying idle. We have not any for this particular reclamation work, because we have not an available sand-pump. 215. Dr. Zillmann.') How many men could you put on the reclamation work, in addition to those who are there now? About fifty. I could not put on more, because I have not the punts which would be required to bring up the stone. 216. Could the punts be made in Sydney? Yes. 217. 295—-C18 J. W. 217. And that would give employment to others P It would. Gnmshaw. 218. Chairman.] "Would the coat of this work come out of loan expenditure P The Dredge Yote is not out of loan expenditure. S June, 1899. 219. But would you not charge the expense in connection with a work of this kind, to loan? I do not say that it should not be charged to loan. I do not know how far you could make this a remunerative work. 220. But you admit that it should be chargable to Loan Vote? To a certain degree, because this is a reclamation work. 221. Dr. Zillmann.] I understand you to say tlie land will be suitable for building ? I think it would, wThen completed. 222. Archdeacon Langley.] "Would Homebush Bay be a good locality for factories? I think it is rather out of the way. 223. Dean Slattery.] Is the river deep enough to allow of large steamers coming up? Yes. The Parra- matta steamers come up already. I think it would be many years before there would be a demand for building sites on this reclamation. People would naturally build first on the hills round about. 221. Archdeacon Langley.} Would not the reclaimed land be more available, being close to water? Yes. 225. Dean Slafiery.] How high do you intend to build the bank-wall ? To the height of the existing fascine bank. 226. Dr. Eoseby] Will not the stone facing be rather expensive ? Not very. 227. Where do you get the material from ? Home of it from the Sugar Company. They load it on the punt at Darling Harbour, free of cost, because they want to get rid of it. We quarry some of the stuff ourselves at Glebe Island. 228. Then it is not very expensive ? In some instances we get the ballast for nothing. We shall be able to get a large quantity from Mort's Dock, which will not have to be paid for. The cost is about Is. per ton landed here, but will be reduced when the men get accustomed to the work. 229. Dean Slattery Could you employ 100 men at Homebush Bay if you had the stone ? Yes, if more punts were available. 230. Could you not employ that number at once? No, we have so many other works on hand. There are many works which we cannot delay and which are more important than this. 231. Archdeacon Langley.] What do you pay the men per day ? Seven shillings. They are mostly local • men, and they have all passed through the Labour Bureau. 232. Dr. Zillmann.] Could not soil be brought down from the mainland ? That would be very expensive. 233. Archdeacon Langley.'] What amount of work is there in the construction of the bank at Homebush Bay ? It would give employment to fifty men for about twelve months. 231. Chairman.] What is your experience of the character of the work the men at Homebush Bay are able to do? I cannot say ; they were only put on yesterday. A great many of these men pass through our hands, and the best will be kept on. 235. W7hen do you expect to complete the Homebush Bay reclamation? It will take many years to fill it in—five, six, or perhaps, ten years. 236. What will be the extent of the Duck Iliver reclamation ? 67 acres. 237. What is being done in connection with it ? Nothing at present. The fascine-bank was really constructed before its time. The Parrarnatta Council were to pay interest on the expenditure, as it was intended that the land should be used as a sewage farm. 238. Are they paying interest ? I do not think so. The land was purchased in anticipation, and the fascine bank was constructed in anticipation, and then the Council declined to accept the sewerage scheme proposed, or to have anything to do with the reclamation. Saturday, 24 June, 1899. [The Board visited the Haivlcesb-ury Agricultural College.] George Yalder, Superintendent, Hawkesbury Agricultural College, was examined:— G, Valder. 239. Archdeacon Langley.] How many pupils have you in the college ? One hundred, which is the ^maximum number we can accommodate. The rule is to receive pupils between the ages of 16 and 25, but 24 June, 1899. occasionally first-class men come here for instruction. 240. Dean Slattery.] How long are the pupils supposed to remain? Por two years ; but if they require a special course, they stay another six months. 241. Dr. lioseby.] What is the acreage over which you have control? Three thousand five hundred acres. 242. How much is under cultivation ? One thousand acres. 243. How many hours do the pupils work per day ? About seven hours. They work indoors and out- of-doors on alternate days. 244. How many cattle have you ? Two hundred and fifty head. Of these, 160 are milch cows. The rest are steers. 245. Archdeacon Langley.] Do you supply your own meat ? I have commenced that lately. 246. Dean Slattery.] Have you any sheep ? Six hundred stud sheep. 247. Dr. Roseby.] What industries are followed, apart from ordinary cultivation ? Fruit-growing, dairying, pig-farming, poultry-fanning, bee-farming, [The Heard subsequently visited Pitt Town Settlement.'] Alexander Hutchinson, manager of the Pitt Town Casual .Labour Earm, was examined:-— A. 288. Dr. Bosehy.] How many men have you on the settlement ? Zorty-seven at present. The number Hutchinson, fluctuates. 289. Are any of the men married ? They are mostly single. We have no families on the settlement, 24 June, 1899. excepting in the case of one of the old hands, whom we have retained. He is a very useful man, and the Department has allowed, him to remain. 290. How long do you keep the men here? For about three months, or until they have made £2, when wre send them away. 291. Mr. Watson.'] What wro rk is done? We clear the timber, cut wood, and do general farm work. On an average we send 50 tons of wood per week to Sydney, where it is sold by auction. 292. Dr. Zillmann.] Have you to pay for it going down ? Yes ; it would be a good thing for my returns if we had not. 293. Dr. Bosely.'] I suppose the employment is not very remunerative ? The men who cut wood work eight hours a day, and their earnings would average about 12s. a week. 291. Archdeacon Lanyley.] Does that include rations? We have a maximum and minimum wage. The minimum is 2s. 6d. a wreek and rations ; the maximum is 5s. a week. 295. How many men work" at cutting lire wood ? Prom ten to twelve. The cutting is done by hand. 296. How many acres have you under cultivation ? About GO. A labour farm, pure and simple, will never consume a large amount of labour. It is the preparation of the land for farming which consumes the labour. 297. Do you conserve water ? We have always plenty of water. One thing the original settlers did was to make some splendid dams. 298. Dr. Zillmann.] Do you think the settlement was a success ? That opens up a broad question, and it wrould take a long time to discuss it. Before I came here I was asked to value the place and the work done, and I put a considerable value on the dams which had been made. 299. Archdeacon 'Lanyley.] What is the extent of the settlement? Two thousand and fifty acres. 300. Of which 60 acres are under cultivation ? Yes ; but we have an additional 100 acres nearly ready for the plough. 301. Dr. Zillmann.] What are the results of the crops ? II p to this season the work has been largely preparatory. The seasons have been very bad. It was stipulated that I should raise, in the shape of potatoes, vegetables, &c., sufficient for our own consumption, and we are doing that now. 302. Are you raising flour ? JNro. 303. Are you raising meat ? We have cattle coming on. I have a gang of men who are getting timber to fence an area of 400 or 500 acres. To do that work', and to break up the ground, we require horses. 301. Could you employ an additional number of men ? There is no end to the number of incu we could employ. We are increasing the value of the land, and making it iit for cultivation. 305. If an additional number of men were sent here would their employment result in reproductive work ? It would always be reproductive work to make land fit for the plough. The money the men are paid and their rations will be fully represented by what they will do. 306. Archdeacon Lanyley.] Have you any poultry here ? I have a strong objection to poultry on a farm like this, for the reason that you require a practical man to take full charge of them and to devote the whole of his time to them. 307. Have you any pigs ? Yes. We had three sows; now we have twenty-two; and we shall have about forty in the next few months. 308. Dr. Zillmann.] Why could you not have poultry on part or the farm? We should require a manager for them, and the regulations debar us from keeping men here for more than three months. You would be surprised at the dilapidated condition of some of the men who come here, but they soon improve in health. 309. Could von get 2,000 acres of the land fit for cultivation? One man could not do that. 310. Is the land good enough? I think so. Personally I would clear half the land. I would cut it up into blocks of various sizes, with so much cleared land to the front, and so much uncleared to the back. I would plough it and rent it to the men, and scores would take it. Scores of men go upon the land and are utterly ruined in a few months, because of the want of capital to prepare it for cultivation. Labour farms will never pay unless you first clear the land, and cut it up into blocks. 311. Archdeacon Lanyley.] Have you any men here who are making furniture for the huts? We make all our own furniture, such as it is. 312. Mr. Watson.'] If you had a larger body of men here could you put them to the work of laying pipes for the purposes of irrigation ? We could easily irrigate every inch of the land. 313. Dr. Roscbi/.] I believe the only industrial work you have here is in connection with the farm, the piggery, and the timber cutting ? We have twenty head of cattle, and they are increasing. We have no dairy. I want to be able, some day, to fall back upon the cattle and break the contract with the butcher for six months. I have no sheep, but could do very well with some. 314. Howr many pigs have you ? Twenty-two, from four. 315. Archdeacon Lanyley.] Are you able to grow plenty of vegetables for the forty-seven men whom you have here ? Yes, and to feed the pigs as well. 316. Mr. Watson.] Have any engineers reported against the possibility of bringing the w ater from Cattai Creek to the settlement ? I have never heard of that. I believe it could be done. 317. Would the cost of providing a permanent water supply, by the laying of pipes by the unemployed from Cattai Creek, be paid for by the additional value it would'give to the land? I have no doubt of it, but I do not speak as an engineer. I think I see the utility of it. 318. Dr. Boseby.] In the meantime, with the teams you possess, you have the means of cultivating a very large area ? In the very hot season we have never lacked cabbages or other vegetables. Of course, that meant an enormous amount of manual labour by hand-watering. 319. Archdeacon Lanyley.] Where do you get your manure from ? Sometimes we have men here who are very helpless, and it is ditficult to know what work to put them to. I generally give them barrows and shovels and send them over the common to obtain manure, of which hundreds of tons are lying about. The manure is worth 2s, Gd. a ton on the ground, ^ 320.21 320. To what extent does the feed you obtain by means of cultivation sustain the horses? I do not A- require to purchase anything for them. utc^inson. 321. Do you grow corn for the horses P Yes. Tnnp isqq 322. How many horses have you ? Nine. -**uue, iqjvn 323. Plow long have yon been in charge of the place ? For close on three years. 324. Have you any milking cows ? Yes, two. 325. Br. Rosehj.'] Of what does the cultivated area consist? Two acres of barley for green feed are coming on. There are also 20 acres of wheat, oats, and barley. ¥e also grow turnips, potatoes, planter's friend, beans, and peas. We have an orchard of 20 acres. 326. How are the trees getting on ? Last year was a bad one for them, and very little wood was made. There was practically no rain, but I lost none of the trees. The trouble is that there are not sufficient of any single sort of tree to enable us to make a market. The original idea was to have them more for our own consumption. 327. I understand that many of the fences were cut down before you came here ? Before I came here there was a chock and log fence, but it was of no service, because men and cattle could knock it over. I am therefore cutting up the wood, and am erecting post and rail fences. 328. How many miles of that kind of fencing have you ? About 6 miles. 329. What subsidy do you get from the Government ? Nothing, but the Government supply everything. 330. What do they supply? Groceries, meat, &c., and any returns go to the Government. 33L. Is the settlement paying its way? I think Mr. Clegg, of the Labour Department, could give you that information. I could hardly tell you without reference to figures. I do not keep the accounts. 332. Are the men giving a fair equivalent in labour for what they receive in the shape of rations? I am satisfied, taking into consideration the improvements which have been made, that the Government are not losing anything. 333. Archdeacon Langleij.'} Have you anyone to overlook the men ? I overlook them myself. I am in the saddle most of the day. 334. If 100 men were sent to you at once could you employ them ? I think so. 335. But you have no accommodation for them ? We are making fresh accommodation. The last time Mr. Creer and Mr. Clegg were here we talked the matter over. The maximum number hitherto has been forty-eight, and it was resolved to increase it to seventy-five, and I am making accommodation for that number. We could, however, go on increasing accommodation. 336. Mr. Lewis.] Could you take on 150 men ? We could when the huts are ready for that number. 337. 1 take it that directly the men learn anything and become useful to you they have to go away? That is so. 338. Mr. Schet/.~] What do you think is the average cost ol the food of the men ? With the vegetables we grew it cost me, last quarter. 4s. J J> 1. per head per week. Thursday, 29 June^ 1899. Ernest Samuel Hunt, engineer, was examined :— 339. Chairman.'] I believe you have had a good deal to do with the unemployed question? I have dealt E. S. Hunt, with the question in Queensland, and I have also given a lot of work to unemployed men. ^—A—— 340. You have made certain suggestions to the Board with regard to the unemployed question? Yes. 29June, 1899. 341. What are your views with regard to the solution of this difficult problem? Relief works, unless they are of a reproductive nature, can never solve the problem. Relief works, unless they are of a repro- ductive nature, should never be entered upon, as they leave the men, on the completion of the works, in the same position as that which they held at their commencement, the relief pay not being sufficient to enable them to effect any saving. Apart from that, there is nothing in prospect to act as an incentive to persevere. Only those who are too old to make a new start in life should be placed on such works. For the permanent solution of the difficulty, suitable areas must be selected, each possessing certain natural resources and advantages, and such industries only should be established as are not in competition with established trades. Provision should be made for an expenditure of £500 per man, extending over a period of five years—say £200 for the first year, £100 per annum for the next two years, and £50 per annum for the succeeding two years. This would include the current rate of w^ages for three or four and a half days a week, the cost of purchasing materials, stores, and machinery, and materials for barracks, workshops, and certain improvements. During this period trades should be established and the areas brought to the self-supporting stage. A system of State credit currency should be adopted until obliga- tions are met or satisfied, thus ensuring domestic supplies and reasonable individual wants during the development period. It may be advisable to conduct work on the State improvements continuously. Then shifts of three days should be adopted, allowing the workers to follow their special trade, or to work on the land during the other three days, thus finding room for double the number of workers. Amongst the industries which might be established are such as are likely to be brought into existence by the development of the settlement. 342. l)r. Zillmann.] What do you think would be a good plan for meeting the present necessities of the unemployed ? I understand that you have already dealt with certain works. I certainly think you should start industries such as coal and iron mines. They would take up a lot of useful labour. Almost any inexperienced man could work in them. My first suggestion is to start the able-bodied men upon the gold-mines or mineral areas. 343. A number of men are crying out for work, and we have made certain recommendations which we think feasible, but we would like to have advice from others ; you are a practical man, and might know of some work? I may mention that some time a 379. The land, of itself, would not produce unless it were fed ? You must feed it; but I would not1 July' gorge it. 380. Do you think it is below the average quality of land? Some of it may be. 381. But take it as a block P As a block, I think it is fairly average land for the district. George "V alder, Superintendent, llawkesbury Agricultural College, was examined :— 382. Chair man.] What is your opinion of the land at the Pitt Town Settlement ? I should say it is much Q-. Valder. below the average farming land. ^ 383. Supposing the land was cleared and made ready for the plough, would it be suitable for agriculture? 1 July, 1899. Yes, if it could be got on a large scale. 384. At what rental P A. small rental—from Is. to 2s. Gd. per acre. 385. What would it cost to clear the land and make it ready for the plough ? About £3 10s. per acre, in its present state; but if 1 was to (dear that class of land I would ring it first. 386. Would you select such a place for the purposes of farming P Yes, provided it could be obtained at a nominal rent, and in large areas. 387. What area would be sufficient for a family to live upon it? From 200 to 300 acres. 388. Mr. Buehanan.~\ What do you think of the expediency of sending from 150 to 200 unemployed men to a piece of land like that? They would not do the \vork so cheaply as you could get it done by contract. 389. Do you think it would be an expedient thing to do under any circumstances? There may be certain conditions in existence rendering it advisable to get rid of a number of men in that nay ; but looking at the matter from a commercial point of view, I should say, " No; 1 can get the work done more cheaply by contract." 390. Mr. Kicld.] Supposing you had 2,050 acres of land like that; it would cost you £3 10s. per acre to clear, in addition to £1 per acre, its original value;—would you ever be likely to clear it for the purpose of letting it out in small farms at from Is. to 2s. (id. per acre ? No; it would not pay to do it. 391. Then you would prefer to ringbark it, and make it suitable for a grass paddock? Yes. 392. That is the only value you attach to it ? Yes. 393. Mr. Buchanan.] Is the Pitt Town Settlement a fair sample of the land about Windsor ? There is a very large area of similar land until you get to the banks of the river, where it improves. 394. Mr. Kidd.] Could you say whether any large quantity of the settlement would be suitable for vines ? I do not like it, even for vines. It would pay far better to go somewhere where the land is better, and pay more money. 395. Your opinion is, that we could not possibly undertake to clear land of that character and expect it to be reproductive? I would not think of it. 396. Mr. TFhiddon.'] Do you think there is any possibility of the settlement ever being self-supporting, so that it will cease to be a charge on the Government'/ ISTo ; I do not think so—that is, if it is worked on the co-operative system. 397. Do you think that, unless the Government part with large areas of it at a nominal rent, anyone will be able to make more than a living out of it ? No. 398. An ordinary rental would handicap anyone who wished to sustain himself ? That is so. 399. Do you think it would be better for the Government to look for other lands ? Certainly. 400. And better results would accrue? Yes. 401. Do you think the energy bestowed upon the Pitt Town Settlement is wasted? Yes. Tuesday, 4 July, 1899. Wallace Webster, "Forest Inspector, Walgett, was examined :— 402. Chairman.] Do you know the country referred to by Mr. Lomax in his letter to the Board ? Yes. W. Webster. 403. Would it compensate the Government to clear it of prickly-pear ? It would pay ultimately, by ^ saving country so far not affected. 4 July, 1899. 404. Dr. Zillmann.'] Does not prickly-pear grow from the root again, even after it has been cleared? Yes, if you drop the smallest portion of it. 405. Mr. Kidd.] Does it not grow from the leaf ? Yes ; the best thing is to burn it, or put it under water. 406. I suppose the best way to deal with the pest would be by letting the land under such conditions to the leaseholders that they would be able to take steps to exterminate it, and by the Government them- selves dealing with the stock routes and reserves ? Decidedly. If we deal with the scrub leases at all we should deal with them at once. It is of no use clearing half a patch of prickly-pear without clearing the other half, because it will spread again. 407. Dr. Zillmann.] Is the Queensland Government doing anything in the direction of eradicating the pest ? I believe they are taking action now, but can give no positive information. 408. What is the condition of the reserves near Picton ? There is nothing but prickly-pear there. The cattle feed upon it; but it is not good for them. 9 409. Chairman.] I believe there is some proposal to make ensilage of it ? A few weeks ago Mr. Lomax had two large gangs of men ringbarking timber and clearing prickly-pear. 410. Whilst the Government are issuing orders for the eradication of the prickly-pear they are taking no steps to clear their own lands ? Not to my knowledge. 411. Dr. IZoseb?/.] Do you know whether the circumstances referred to by Mr. Lomax have been reported to the Government ? I have no doubt the Government are aware of all the facts of the case from their inspectors in the district, and from reports furnished by the District Surveyor. 412. Chairman.] What area of land is included in the reserves in the county of Benarra ? I could not say. 413. I suppose the reserves are more or less covered with pricklv-pear ? Yes ; but there is not so much making towards Collymongool. Driving north you meet it first on the Meehi. 414,21 W. Webster. 414. And in nearly all the leases which have been issued recently provision is made that the runs shall • <-A-—^ be kept clear of prickly-pear ? Yes, in all settlement leases. 4 July, 1899. 4^5 js carried out ? The leases to the south have not prickly-pear upon them. Wirrah and part of the northern portion of Caidmurra are reserves which are more or less covered. 416. What would it cost, on an average, to eradicate the prickly-pear P 10s, an acre, on portions; an average cost could not be determined without actual inspection and knowledge as to acreage and extent of pear on it. 417. Mr. Black.] "What does it cost to clear the worst portions? 30s. an acre; and then there are possibilities that it will have to he dealt with again. 418. In view of the rapid spread of prickly-pear in that part of the country, and the consequent depreciation in the value of Government land, do you think it would pay the Government to undertake the cost oi: eradicating it from the reserves ? I think it would. Of course you have to consider the adjoining land wdiich would be saved. 419. Do you know what private people pay for eradicating the pear ? Generally a wage of about 15s. a week with rations. 420. Do they let out the work by contract ? I do not know of that being done. 421. Do you think it would be better to employ labour, as Mr. Lomax does, or to work on the butty-gang system ? That would be the better system if the Government did the work. 422. Would the reserves bring in more money if they were cleared of prickly-pear? Decidedly. 423. To what extent? Perhaps not to a great extent, because the rent of that land is not more than Id. or 2d. per acre. 424. Is there not a danger of the prickly-pear spreading over the Crown lands by reason of the reserves being infested ? Undoubtedly, by the agency of birds and floods. 425. If all the reserves were cleared of it would there be less likelihood of it spreading to private lands? Decidedly. 426. Therefore, the pastoral tenants would be more likely to give more money for their land ? Yes. It will not pay the pastoral lessees to clear it on certain portions. 427. If it will not pay the pastoral lessees to clear it, would it pay the Government to clear it for them ? I am speaking of small holders of homestead leases—not of pastoral tenants. 428. Will not the same thing hold good of every kind of holding ? I do not think it will pay the Govern- ment to clear one holding for the sake of that one holding, but for the sake of the adjoining Crown lands to which the pest is spreading. John Edgar Davies, in charge of the administration or the Prickly-pear Act, was examined :— J. E. Davies. 429. Chairman.'] Has the Department spent anything of late years in the eradication of the prickly pear ? No money has been spent for eradication purposes for the last ten years—excepting £500 for 4 July, 1899. clearing isolated travelling stock and camping reserves. 430. A large area of land about M'uswell brook and Scone is leased under prickly-pear leases ? We have leased about 40,000 acres under the Prickly-pear Act. That averages £8 a section of 40 acres. We could have leased it in larger blocks, but we must cut it up in order to conform with the Act. 431. Is there a large area of land available to be operated upon in the same wTay ? Yes. A good deal of it has been offered seven or eight times ; but it has never been taken up. We have offered it at Is. a year for 640 acres. Some of the land we have recently leased in the Hunter district will cost £7 an acre to clear. It will be good land when it is once cleared. 432. Then there is a lot of land in the same district which, even if cleared, would be worth very little ? That is so. 433. Arch deacon Langley. ] Is the clearing of the prickly-pear hard work? Men will not do it if they can get anything else. 434. Is it as bad as navvy-work, or could it be done by elderly men ? Elderly men could do it if they were properly accoutred. We have a reserve at Scone—the permanent common—2,000 acres of which are overrun with prickly-pear. It would cost £3 an acre to clear it. 435. Chairman.J And the land in proximity to it is being operated upon by private individuals ? Yes. Most of them are doing good work. 436. I suppose the state of things on the reserve at Scone is causing the prickly-pear to spread? 'No doubt it is the seed-bed of the whole of the district. 437. Would not the Government be justified in clearing the reserve ? I think so. You cannot expect private owners to do similar work if the Government will not do it. 438. What do you think the reserve would cost to clear at present? About £5,000. 439. Would the expense be justified ? I cannot say that. Some of the land is good, and some of it poor. 440. But in view of the land improvement which would be effected, and prevention of the spread of the disease, would not the expenditure be justified ? Yes. 441. Have you made any report in reference to this particular reserve? I have received a report from the inspectors about it. 442. What area of Crown lands have you in the Hunter district? Isolated patches of from 30 to 2,000 acres. Some of it is good land, and some of it would not pay for clearing. 443. Would it pay you by preventing the spread of the pest ? Undoubtedly. 444. Archdeacon Langley.'] It is only fair, if you compel private owners to clear, that you should stop the seed going to their land? That is so. We prosecuted a man the other day, as a warning to other land- owners, for non-compliance with the Act. ^Representations were made by the Member for the district, Mr. Dight, and it is intended to refund the fine and costs. The Act is a fairly good one in many respects, and we could do good work with it; but owing to the large expenditure required to clear Crown lands it has been rendered difficult to administer, and until the Crown undertakes the destruction of the pest on their lands it will be impossible to fully enforce the provisions of the Act in respect to private lands. 445. I suppose the Crown authorities cannot be prosecuted? JSTo. It has been tried without success. 446. Chairman.] What other districts are infested ? On the Castlereagh and Marthaguy Creeks, in the Dubbo and Coonamble districts, there is a good deal of it. 447.25 447. Is it spreading? Yes; and it has been for many years past. Since I have had charge of the J- E. Davies. working of the Act—now for ten years—the pest has increased, not for want of representation to the ^ Government on the part of the Department, but because there has always been a lack of funds for 4 1899- carrying out the work. Bingara is another district which is being overrun with the prickly-pear. [Representations are being made every day with regard to other noxious weeds, such as the sweet-briar, star thistle, and the Bathurst burr. The Bathurst burr promises to become worse than the prickly-pear. 448. Mr Kidd.] The sweet-briar only grows in cold climates ? It is growing in the New England district. 449. Chairman.] Have you heard of any proposal for dealing with the pest? "When you were Minister for Mines I was instructed to prepare an amended Bill; but the matter never went any further. 450. Has not some proposal been recently made by the Department to lease certain areas with a view to making use of the pear ? One man has a patent for turning it into fodder ; but it will cost about 25s. a ton to prepare the stuff, and in a good season you can buy lucerne more cheaply. Again, it would not give the same benefits to the cattle. 451. Br. Zillmann.] For how many men could you find employment in the removal of the prickly-pear ? 500 straight away, without any trouble. 452. Mr. Hidd.~\ Could you do with 500 on the Hunter ? Yes, easily. 453. Mr. Black.~\ I understand that you have let a block of 640 acres in the Muswellbrook district for £8 per annum, or 3d. per acre ? That is the average return we get from prickly-pear leases. . 454. What is the usual rent ? That is the average rent. In some instances we get £25, with clearing conditions. 455. People are willing to give you, for favourably-situated blocks, as much as £25 per section, even though they may be put to the expense of clearing it? Yes ; over 40,000 acres are leased under the Act at the present time, and the average return per section is £8. 456. Is it a fact that the prickly-pear trouble is largely traceable to Queensland ? Yes ; in the north-west. 457. Is it fair to say that unless the Queensland Government take action it will be impossible for us to keep the evil within check? Yes. 458. If anything is to be done in the shape of clearing the land and assisting the unemployed, would it not be best to begin in some portion of the country near Sydney rather than out back, until better supervision can be exercised? I think it would be difficult to get a large body of men to the north-west. 459. Has the prickly-pear extended much along the North Coast? No. 460. Is not Riverina quite exempt? No; there is a little about the Eiverina, near Berrigan. If land were cleared in the Hunter district, land which cannot now be leased would be taken up. A clearing condition could be inserted in any lease issued, which would compel the lessee to keep the land clear. At present people will not look at pear-infested land. A station owned by the late Sir John Robertson was given to a gentleman for twenty years without any rental, provided he cleared the prickly-pear. 11 July, 1899 Tuesday, 11 July, 1899. [The Board visited the Glebe Island Bridge and Reclamation TVorks."] James Walter Grrimshaw, District Engineer, Sydney and South Coast, Harbours and Rivers, Public "Works Department, was examined:— 460. Chairman.] "What number of men are at present engaged in the works at Glebe Island? 227. J. W. These men are engaged in removing the stone from the island for the purpose of constructing the Grimshaw. causeway to the Glebe Island Bridge. It is also proposed to utilise the stone of the island for reclamation . works, extending 500 feet in a north-easterly direction. 461. When will the bridge causeway be completed ? In about a month's time. We shall then have finished as far as we can go until the main part of the bridge is completed, and 100 of the men will have to be discharged unless steps are taken to enable the Department to proceed with the reclamation work. The work which is now being done is charged to the Glebe Island Bridge. 462. Do you think the reclamation work would be a good work to proceed with ? An excellent work. 463. Would it be reproductive? Yes; we are wanting wharfs everyday. The area of the island is 33J acres, and the reclamation will amount to 14f acres. There would be about 3 acres of wharfage around that. That means 2,190 feet of wharfage along AVhite Bay, 560 feet at the head, and 1,400 feet along the Sydney side of the bridge. 464. Could not additional wharfage accommodation be provided on the Annandale side of the bridge ? Yes. 465. What area? About 3 acres of land could be reclaimed there, fronting Johnstone's Bay, thus giving additional wharfage accommodation of 750 feet; or we could get an additional 2,000 feet of wharfage accommodation by extending the work from the bridge round the island on the south-east side. 466. Therefore, if the improvements are carried out you can give an additional wharfage accommodation of 6,150 feet ? Yes. 467. At what cost ? The cutting down of part of the island, at 2s. per cubic yard, will cost £40,000 ; and wharfage will cost £50,000—in all about £90,000. The quantity of material in the whole of the island, above 4 feet over high-water level, is 1,736,880 cubic yards, or 3,126,384 tons. The quantity of material necessary for the reclamation is 729,952 tons. 468. "What depth of water would you have around the island when the wharfs were completed? Twenty- eight feet could be obtained at low water. 469. And a large vessel could come alongside the wharfs ? Yes. 470. How long would it take to carry out the work ? We could put on about 500 men, and could keep them employed for two years. 471. If the whole of the island were cut down, would you have any difficulty in using the stone on other works ? No. Of course a large quantity of it would be required for the reclamation. None of it would be wasted. 472. Mr. Whiddon.] There is an outlet for the stone if only the money necessary to provide for its removal is voted ? That is so. 295—D 473.26 Grimshaw I?' ^T' ^ew^s^\ ^ believe that wharfs give a large return to the Grovernment ? Nothing better. K Chairman.] Have you a large demand for wharfs at present? More than we can supply. There 11 July 1899 are on^J ^ve Grovernment wharfs under construction at present which are not let. They will be let as Ji ' soon as they are finished. 475. If wharfage accommodation is provided at Glebe Island there will be ample demand for it? That is my opinion. 476. And they will give a good return for the outlay? Tes. Most of the others pay from 15 to 20 per cent. 477. Dr. Boseby.] Is any railway communication with the island contemplated ? Not at present, that I am aware of. 478. Chairman.'] Have you ever considered a proposal for bringing a branch line from somewhere between Petersham and Ashfield to the island ? I can scarcely say I have considered it; but it has always struck me that it would be likely to be carried out some time. 479. Would it considerably relieve the difficulty at present experienced at the liedfern tunnel ? I am not prepared to express an opinion, but very likely it would. Thursday, 20 July, 1899. \The Board visited the Salvation Army Farm, at Deewhy, Manly.] Adjutant "William Wright was examined :— 480. Mr. Buchanan.] How many men have you on the farm ? Sometimes we have twenty to twenty-four ; at present w^e have eighteen. The number fluctuates. 1899 .^iat ^le area °^' ^ie farm ? 1,300 acres altogether. There are GO acres in the block we are working on at present. 482. Is this a fair sample of the land ? Tes ; but the nearer the hills, the better the soil becomes. 483. Can you get any crop without manuring? Not much; we get a quantity of manure from our piggeries and stables. 484. Mr. Schey.] Do you make anything out of the land ? I support all the men on the place from the produce eighteen to twenty men from 20 acres under cultivation. 48o. Does this cover all expenses ? All except the annuity paid for the farm. 486. Br. Zillmann.] What do you give the men ? Board and lodgings, and a gratuity from Is. to 3s. per week. I have paid from £2 to £3 per week in gratuities. 487. Mr. Buchanan.] Are the men contented ? No ; they are inclined to be a discontented lot. 488. Mr. Schey.] Do you take any account of women and children? No. 489. Do you get your recruits through the Salvation Army? No ; this place is open to anyone. If a casual swagman came here and applied for admission, I would take him in. 490. Have you estimated the average cost per individual ? Ten shillings per week. 491. Can a man earn more than his subsistence ? Some can ; but I and the other two officers wrork eight hours per day, and our living also comes out of the produce of the farm. 492. Taking it all round, have the men earned 12s. 6d. per week per man ? Yes. 493. How much more do you think your men capable of earning, on an average? I am not in a position to say ; it depends on the men ; but I can always make them support themselves. 494. Mr. Buchanan.] How long have you been here ? Two years last January. This place was then a swamp, pure and simple. It has been all cleared and underground drained. It never floods now ; we have stone drains, and some are slabbed over, and ti-tree brush is placed .on top, always leaving a free course for the water. There is about 50 feet of a fall in this paddock. 495. Have you done any fruit-tree planting ? Yes ; but we began too late in the season. 496. Mr. Schey.] Are the men above the average as labourers ? No; they are just the ordinary class. Some have not the least idea of work ; but they are not of the worst class. 497. Mr. Kidd.] What time do they stay, on the average ? About a month; but there is no limit to the time we will keep them if they wish to stay. 498. Mr. Schey.] ^ If you get a man who will not do a fair day's work, what do you do with him ? I talk to him, reason with him, and point out that it is for his own good, and if he does not reform he is dismissed, but only if he is absolutely bad. 499. Have you contributed anything towards the capital cost of the farm out of the sale of j our produce ? I can hardly say. I have done some work for head-quarters in Melbourne, which, if done by an outside contractor, would cost £150 or £160. 500. Mr. Black.] Are these men doing immediately productive work ? Yes; and also work that will eventually be still m.ore productive. For instance, in addition to cultivating the land already cleared and drained, they are preparing fresh land for cultivation. 501. IIow long does it take to clear an acre ? Six good men would mattock an acre in a week. 502. How many acres have you cleared during the last twelve months ? I have been cultivating princi- pally during the past twelve months, but have cleared .10 acres lately. 503. Mr. Schey.] Have you any live stock? About 150 piers, and two cows for our own use. I have also five horses. 504. Mr. Kidd.] Are you utilising artificial manures ? Yes; the Sugar Company's bone-dust, &c. I do not use night-soil, because it has a very bad effect on the vegetables grown.on it. 505. Dr. Zillmann.] Have you any poultry? No; but we are thinking of getting some, and also establishing a dairy shortly. 506. Do the men work better;—are they better disciplined, as the result of religious influence r We have a number of men who know nothing of the Army or its religion. I find it is best to treat them as men, apart from religious convictions. 507. Would it be possible to manage a compulsory labour farm for the vagrant or loafer class, in conjunction with such an institution as this ? No; I think they should be kept entirely separate. 508. A! ? ill ant Wright. 27 508. Have you not had men here who have learnt something useful during their stay ? Yes. I have hauld be of the highest producing quality ; and instead of, as now, taking a large area to feed one beast, it is said that at small cost it could be made to maintain one beast per acre. Not only could it be made productive in this way, but also capable of producing heavy crops of maize, &c. As an illustration of the value of this kind of work, we might point out that recently on land near the Manning River a survey was made of a work estimated to cost about <£7,500, which would drain 6,800 acres—or at a cost of less than Is. per acre per annum in interest, while the increased value would be at least 5s. per acre per annum, and we anticipate even more satisfactory results with regard to several schemes on the Hastings and Macleay Rivers. This is only one of several instances which might be cited in connection with works of this description. We are aware that large areas of this land are in the hands of private persons ; but if they do not think fit to improve the land at their own expense, or to ask the Government to do so under the Water Rights Act, under which they would be charged not more than 6 per cent, on the improved value of the land, and in no case more than 6 per cent, on the actual cost of the work, it seems not unreasonable that the Government should resume and improve it for the benefit of the State. In dealing with such land, it will, of course, be necessary to take accurate levels, by-allowing for the shrinkage when the land becomes drained. It would also be necessary to carefully ascertain the quality of the soil to be operated upon, because it is hardly necess.ny to point out that in this non-practical men are likely to be deceived—and never more so than on lands of tliis description, since, although a surface examination may disclose indications of good black soil, careful inspection may reveal that it is after all little else than sand, requiring large quantities of fertilisers to render it sufficiently reproductive. As * See Report of tlie Proceedings of the Agricultural Conference, Hawkesbury Agricultural College, July, 1837.35 As a Board we have not visited the country districts named, and consequently our inquiries have not been as extensive or as searching as we would have liked ; but from a general knowledge of the Colony we have no hesitation in stating that these river districts, as well as the lands on the Gwydir, near Moree, and other undrained lands, may provide an avenue for profitable employment for large numbers of the unskilled men, whose well-directed efforts would be the means of largely increasing the productiveness of extensive areas within our territory. Mining. Another avenue of employment which might, with advantage to the great industry of mming, be opened up in this Colony is the conservation of water on some of our mining fields. These are works which, of course, require report and inspection in order that definite recommendations may be made on the subject; but we feel that much good work may be done in this direction, especially where the expenditure of small amounts of money would result in the conservation of sufficient water to enable mining fields, languishing in times of drought for want of water, to be profitably worked. One work in particular has recently come under our notice, where the Government obtained a guarantee of 5 per cent, on an amount of £500 advanced under the Water Rights Act for the construction of works which secured the conservation of 7,000,000 gallons of water, and the dam, if raised two or three feet, could be made to hold from 10,000,000 to 12,000,000 gallons. This supply enables the proprietors to view with indifference such times of drought as we have recently passed through, although previously a pro- tracted dry season necessitated the abandonment of the field for several months. One mine-owner alone states that this reliable water supply has enabled him to keep sixteen men in active employment, and there will be occupation for an increased number as soon as the necessary machinery has been erected. In this case the Government have not only obtained the guarantee of interest on the outlay, but they also receive £>1 per acre per annum for land which, for any purpose other than mining, is practically worthless. This instance affords a good indication of the importance of giving attention to works of this kind, in order to still further assist in the development of the mineral resources of the Colony. We believe that many alluvial gold-fields, at present more or less deserted, would furnish at least subsistence to a large number of men by intelligent fossicking, and suggest that the Government might arrange small parties, find rations for a limited period, point out localities, and even loan simple sluicing and washing machines, on such terms as would secure control, and ultimate reimbursement for everything supplied, from those whose earnings were sufficient to allow of such payments. Forest-plan ting. Intimately associated with forest-thinning—to which we have referred in our previous Report—and forest improvement works, is the work of forest-planting, for which there is a large scope in many parts of the country, and a profitable field for the employment of labour. In some populated districts the pinch of scarcity is already felt; the supply of red cedar (one of the most valuable and extensively used of our timbers) is almost exhausted. As an indication that the supply of ironbark—the most durable of all timbers for sleepers and other constructive works—is being rapidly depleted, it may be mentioned that the Railway Commissioners have recently decided to accept other timbers for railway sleepers. Forest-planting is known to be highly profitable to those who can afford to await the return. Although timber crops take a long time to mature, they are surprisingly remunerative ; so much so that in many parts of Europe land, that cannot be profitably utilised for agriculture, owing to the low return for its produce, is being devoted to timber culture. Scientifically undertaken, and every allowance being made for the initial cost, interest, and loss of the use of the land in other directions, forest-planting ensures ultimate returns of a highly satisfactory nature. In this connection it is also to be remembered that, apart from the climatic value of forest cover, statistics indicate that the world's supplies of timber are being rapidly depleted, owing to the increased uses to which timber is being put. A further inducement for undertaking extensive afforestation may be found in the fact that much of oar land is unsuitable for agricultural pursuits, but eminently fitted for the growth and production of timber. We, therefore, recommend that steps be taken to commence forest-planting in a systematic manner. SUMMARY OF RECOMMENDATIONS. Proposal I. 1. This Board recommend for the alleviation of the unemployed evil a composite scheme, consisting of (a) Receiving Depot, (b) Industrial Farm, and (c) Assisted Settlement Blocks. 2. The areas should consist of blocks contiguous to Sydney and other large centres of population, for Receiving Depots; considerable areas for Industrial Farm Settlements, and large areas for cutting up into blocks for assisted settlers. 3. No land should be alienated ; the State should be the sole owner. 4. The control of the Settlements should be under a Board to be appointed by the Government, including, if possible, the Minister for Lands and the Minister for Labour. 5. The Board of Control should have power to report to the Government; to inspect the various Settlementsto suspend or suggest the removal of employees; to offer advice; and generally to control the administration of the Settlements, including their finances, subject in all cases to the approval of the Government. (a) Receiving Depots. 6. The Receiving Depots should be open to all persons, excepting those of notoriously bad character, as a temporary refuge, subject to their good behaviour. Every effort should be made to replace the inmates in the ordinary channels of employment. 7. The Receiving Depots should not be regarded as self-supporting Institutions, but every effort should be made, by the labour of the inmates, to reduce the expenditure as much as possible. Men and women, if found suitable, should be eligible for the Industrial Farm Settlements. («)36 (I) Industrial 'Farm Settlements♦ 8. The proposed Industrial Farm Settlements should be managed by persons selected on the advice of the Board of Control. 9. Every endeavour should be made to find employment in the ordinary channels of industry, and every person desirous of taking up such employment should be afforded every assistance in reaching and obtaining the same. 10. Entrants should be on an equality, but subsequently a careful classification of the settlers should form a feature in the management of the Industrial Farm Settlements. 11. While the Industrial Farm Settlements cannot be expected to be self-supporting from their initiation, every effort should be made to make them so. 12. Intending settlers may be admitted at the discretion of the Board of Control, and no one should be permitted to withdraw from a Settlement without giving such notice as the Board may require. 13. All preliminary work,—clearing, road-making, building, &c., should be done by the settlers, each man being credited with his share of the work performed, the cost to be viewed as a charge against the Settlement. 14. Every effort should be made to establish the greatest diversity of employment of which the land and inmates are capable, both agricultural and manufacturing. 15. As far as may be, everything consumed or used on a Settlement should be produced and made there. 16. Except in cases of emergency, no adult should be required to work more than eight hours a day. 17. Remuneration and privileges should be made to settlers by board, residence, clothing, &c., on a scale of allowance in proportion to the work done and to the resources available. 18. So far as may be possible, competition with outside industries should be avoided. 19. As a part of the system, there should be a Department of Technical Education, to the classes of which every inmate should be required to attend. 20. Those settlers on the Industrial Farm Settlements who have shown the necessary aptitude and trustworthiness should be afforded an opportunity of taking up the assisted settlement blocks. 21. The rules should not be unduly oppressive or inquisitorial, but should include prompt dismissal for disobedience, idleness, drunkenness, and immorality ; and transfer to the Charitable Institutions in cases of incapacity. (c) Assisted Settlement Blocks. 22. For the purposes of assisted settlement blocks the Government should, as necessity arises, select and set aside such areas of suitable land as may be deemed sufficient. 23. Such areas should be divided into blocks, whose dimensions are regulated by the climate, the quality of the soil, and position as regards a market, but in all cases each block should be equal to the support of a family. 24. Occupation and use should be an obligatory condition, and all leases should be subject to forfeiture if these primary conditions be not carried out. 25. Intending settlers should be considered eligible for admission at the age of 18 years. 26. The Board of Control should have power todeclare any applicant unsuitable; but, as a general rule, the applications of the married men should be considered prior to those of the single. 27. The tenant should pay as rent an amount equal to 2| per cent, on the value of the land ; such payment to commence at the end of the second year. 28. All lands thus leased should be subject to reappraisement. Provided that no such reappraise- ment should take place in consequence of any increment of values caused solely by the exertions and expenditures of the settlers thereon. 29. Where necessary, the Government should assist settlers to erect dwelling-houses, farm buildings, and other improvements, or with tools and seeds : such advances to be a first charge on the said improve- ments, to bear interest at the rate of 4 per cent., and to be repayable after the second year of settlement has expired, in annual instalments extending over a period of twenty years. 30. For every assistance granted to a settler, improvement of equivalent value, as assessed by the Board of Control, should be put upon such settler's block. 31. Where improvements made at Government cost are of sufficient value, their insurance should be provided for at the cost of the settler. 32. 1STo settler should be permitted, unless under special circumstances to be decided by the Board, to hold more than one block, nor should he be permitted to sublet or subdivide such block. 33. Each lease should contain a clause providing that such lease may at any time be cancelled if, in the opinion of the Board of Control, it is not being used to the best advantage or for the best purpose; or if, in the opinion of the Board, the continued residence of the lessee be from any cause not conducive to the interest of the Settlement. In such case tenant-right, as hereinafter provided for, should accrue. 34. Leases should contain provisions to secure the creation and maintenance of channels for drainage or irrigation purposes, and the preservation or planting of trees for timber and shade, and such reservations of rights, powers, minerals, and materials as may appear to the Board of Control necessary in the interests of the Settlement. 35. In case the obligation to reside on the blocks or the payment of any sums due as rent be not duly performed, the lease should be subject to forfeiture. 36. Should any settler abandon his holding without repaying the advances made to him thereon, he should not again be eligible to take up land under this scheme, unless under extenuating circumstances. 37. A settler should, with the approval of the Board, but not otherwise, be allowed to transfer his holding and the rights appertaining to it. But no such transfer should be approved unless made bond fide, and not for the purpose of evading any forfeiture or penalty imposed or about to be imposed by the Board of Control. 38. No transfer of any block should be at any time made, except by the approval of the Board of Control, who must also approve of the proposed transferee, who should be subject to precisely the same conditions as those which governed the transferor. 39.37 39. Tenant-right should accrue upon the determination of a lease, and should entitle the person in whom, for the time-being, the tenant-right is vested to receive the value to an incoming tenant of the improvements from any persons who, subject to the approval of the Board of Control hereinbefore reserved, may take a lease of the land containing the improvements. The value of the improvements to an incoming tenant should be appraised by the Board of Control, and be calculated on the basis of the value of such improvements to the land leased. The improvements in respect of which tenant-right is conferred should in all cases be ; (a.) of a permanent, fixed, and substantial character, and necessary for the profitable occupation of the land ; and (6.) the property of the person claiming to have tenant-right in respect thereof. Provided always that— (a.) The tenant-right should lapse after the expiration of twelve years from the date of its first accruing, and thereafter the improvements become the property of the Board of Control; but such lapsing should not affect any agreement, appraisement, or order for payment previously made ; (b.) the incoming lessee of the land containing the improvements should pay the value thereof, as appraised by the Board of Control, by such instalments, and at such dates, as may be prescribed by the said Board ; (c.) in the event of such incoming lessee not paying the amount of such appraisement upon entering into possession of the holding, such amount, or so much thereof as remains unpaid for the time- being, should be and remain a charge upon the land containing such improvements while in the hands of a lessee until payment thereof; (d.) the Board of Control should have power to cancel the lease of any incoming tenant who fails to pay any amount due and owing in respect of such tenant-right within the period prescribed by the Board; (e.) the value of any improvement should not be taken to exceed the first cost thereof, and no allowance should be made for any improvement not of a useful character. 40. In case o£ any settler dying intestate, power should be given to the Board of Control to make arrangements, subject to the legal administration of the estate, for the carrying on of the holding by the widow or other approved person, for the benefit of the family. 41. The Board of Control should have power to authorise the holding of any block by the wife and family of any lessee during his prolonged or enforced absence. 42. JSTo holding should be sold under any writ of execution issuing out of any Court, nor vest in any official assignee or trustee, nor be ordered to be conveyed upon the bankruptcy of the lessee thereof, nor pass by any assignment for the benefit of his creditors; nor in any other way be taken from the lessee thereof for the satisfaction of any debt or liability under process or constraint of law. Any transfer, assign- ment, alienation, conveyance, charge, or encumbrance of a holding, except so far as expressly permitted by sanction of the Board of Control, should be absolutely void. 43. The sale of intoxicants, except for medicinal purposes, should not be permitted. 44. In any survey of land for Assisted Settlement, ample provision should be made for a village reserve, in which small residential blocks of land should be set apart for lease to such of the settlers as may desire to avail themselves of them. 45. The Board of Control should be empowered, after the second year of settlement, to grant prizes for— 1. General efficiency in agriculture and farm improvements. 2. Taste in homestead decoration, or work done in vegetable and flower gardening. 3. Production and development of live stock of any and all kinds; or such other purposes as they may think fit. 46. The Board of Control should be empowered to carry out such features of co-operation as they may consider desirable, including the power to lease land to parties of co-operators, and to obtain from the Government any advances approved for the establishment of co-operative industries in connection with the Assisted Settlements. Proposal II. Compulsory Labour Colony. 1. There should be established a Compulsory Labour Colony to which the persistently idle and vagrant may be committed with a view to their possible reformation, and the endeavour to compel them to earn as much as they consume. 2. The Compulsory Labour Colony should be under the control of an officer appointed by the Govern- ment for the special purpose. 3. The Compulsory Labour Colony should include such forms of industry as may be found suitable. 4. The inmates should be carefully classed, and provided with such encouragements by way of better food and other luxuries as may stimulate a spirit of industry among them. 5. All those persons who are now sent to gaol for having insufficient visible means of support should be sent to such establishment. 6. The provisions of the Vagrant Act with such amendments thereof as may seem necessary should be made applicable to this establishment. 7. The period of enforced residence should not be less than twelve months for the first offence, and two years for the second. 8. This establishment should be, as far as possible, self-sustained, and maintained by the internal consumption of its own products. Miscellaneous Proposals. 1. A Labour Intelligence Department should be established on the lines laid down in the body of the Report. 2. An early opportunity should be taken to introduce a Bill to provide for the licensing of Servants' Registries, and to fix a scale of fees chargeable by and payable to license holders in respect of the hiring of servants. 3.38 3. A trial should be given to the co-operative system of constructing public works, so successfully carried out in New Zealand. 4. A system of agricultural instruction should be extended to our primary schools. 5. Efforts should be made to carry out extensive drainage schemes in the Grafton and other Land Districts. 6. The conservation of water on mining fields should be made the subject of investigation and report by Government experts. 7. Steps should be taken to commence forest-planting in a systematic manner. 8. Advances on approved security should be made to present occupiers of land. 9. The Government might arrange for the fitting out of small parties to fossick on the more or less deserted alluvial gold-fields. 10. An Industrial Farm Settlement might be established for partially-capable men transferred from the Charitable Asylums. There remain those avenues of employment for both classes referred to, which we have but briefly touched upon in our Reports, and others which time has not yet permitted us to fully investigate. Such questions must be dealt with in a future report. We desire, however, to point out that, in submitting this Second Progress Report, we by no means claim to have completed the task assigned to us. The problem is far too complex and varied in its aspects to be fully dealt with in the limited time during which the Board have been in existence; but Ave think the suggestions herein made are, as far as the}^ extend, reasonable, practicable, and advisable, and we confidently recommend them to the earnest consideration of the Government. SYDNEY SMITH, Chairman. JOHN KIDD. G. D. BUCHANAN. S. T. WHIDDON. J. H. L. ZILLMANN. JOSIAH THOMAS. JAS. WATSON. THOMAS ROSEBY. CLEMENT LEWIS. H. D. LANGLEY. WM. F. SCHEY. P. SLATTERY. GEORGE BLACK. A. F. Basset Hull, Secretary. 54, Bridge-street, Sydney, 29th September, 1899. No. 7. Appendices to the Second Progress Report. Appendix A. Letters addressed to the Premier. Conversion of City Tramways ; forest-thinning; Southern Line grading ; J3ogan scrub lands; and Prickly* jpear eradication. Sir, Unemployed Advisory Board, Sydney, 29 May, 1899. I have the honor to report that the Unemployed Advisory Board met on the afternoons o£ Tuesday and Friday last, for the purpose of considering the best means of dealing with the problem of the unemployed. Your minute, setting forth the reasons for the appointment of the Board, was read and considered. The Honorable the Minister for Labour kindly authorised Mr. Creer, Superintendent of the Labour Bureau, to be in attendance at the first meeting of the Board, and he reported that the estimated number of unemployed men in the city and suburbs is at present between three and four thousand, and it is thought that the number for the whole Colony is between eight and ten thousand. Owing to the existing drought, and the winter season having set in, it is anticipated that the number of the unemployed will be largely increased during the next few months. In view, therefore, of the serious outlook for the winter, the Board decided to ask the Government to give their kind consideration to several works which, it is thought, might help to relieve the present necessity. One of the works suggested is the conversion of the City Tramways, already authorised ; this, it is considered, if proceeded with on a larger scale, might afford employment to a number of the skilled labourers amongst the able-bodied unemployed. The Board also considered the work of forest-thinning, and urge that the Government be asked to proceed with this class of work. From information received by the Board it was understood that many thousands of acres of forest land have already been dealt with in this wTay, and with most satisfactory results, the grazing capabilities of the land having been improved, and the number of matured trees will be materially increased. It has been pointed out that, so far as the red-gum forests are concerned, there is very little time available, owing to the annual floods occurring about July. The Board were gratified at the announcement you were good enough to authorise me to make,, that you had sanctioned the carrying out of deviation works on the Southern Railway Line, which will afford employment to at least 2,000 men; and also that further blocks of the Bogan scrub lands are to be rendered available for clearing. The Board are anxious, with you, in seeing that this labour will not be secured by recent arrivals from the other Colonies. In addition to the applicants being required to produce electors' rights, the Board are strongly of opinion that in this, and similar classes of work, the whole of the men to be employed should be registered at, and selected through, the city or country agencies of the Labour Bureau. Another39 Another work which the Board are of opinion might be taken into consideration is that of eradi- cating the prickly-pear from Crown lands, and in order to make some more definite suggestions in regard to this class of work, the Board would be glad if you could kindly authorise Mr. Hay, an officer of the Lands Department, to be in attendance on Tuesday next, so that the area of such land to be operated upon may be ascertained, and definite proposals may be made to the Government on the subject. While the Board are at present particularly engaged in the endeavour to suggest means for dealing with the present unemployed, they are at the same time not losing sight of several important schemes for dealing with the whole question of the unemployed as classed in your Minute. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, The Eight Honorable G. H. Eeid, P.C., M.P., Premier, Sydney. SYDNEY SMITH, ----Chairman. Drainage of Laiid in the Gwydir District. Sir, Unemployed Advisory Board, Sydney, 31 May, 1899. I have the honor to intimate that the Unemployed Advisory Board have ascertained that some time ago proposals were made for the drainage of certain lands in the Gwydir District, a work which will benefit half a million acres at the comparatively small cost of £18,000. The proposal, the Board understand, has already been favourably considered by the Ministers for Lands and Works, and the carrying of the scheme into operation would not only give employment to a number of unskilled labourers, but would render a large area of Crown land available for settlement. It appears, however, that there is a legal difficulty in the way, but the Board are hopeful that this may be overcome. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, SYDNEY SMITH, The Eight Honorable Gr. H. Eeid, P.C., M.P., Premier, Sydney. Chairman. Bepainting Iron Bridges on the Byde Boad. Sir, Unemployed Advisory Board, Sydney, 1 June, 1899. I have the honor to bring before you a further work which has been submitted to the Unemployed Advisory Board. It is stated that there are three iron bridges on the Byde Eoad which are urgently in need of repainting, and the Board respectfully ask the Government if they can see their way clear to carry out this work, which will give employment to a number of men who are only able to perform the lighter class of labour. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, SYDNEY SMITH, The Eight Honorable Gr. H. Eeid, P.C., M.P., Premier, Sydney. Chairman. Duplication of Milson s Point Bailway Line. Sir, Unemployed Advisory Board, Sydney, 1 June, 1899. In further reference to the question of providing reproductive labour for the unemployed, the Board respectfully urge your favourable consideration of the proposal to duplicate the railway line beyond St. Leonards towards Hornsby Junction. The Board are gratified to find that the Bailway Commissioners, recognising the importance of giving an improved service to this rapidly-growing district, recommended the Government to ask Parlia- mentary sanction for the necessary funds to carry out this reproductive work. The sum of £50,000 was voted for the purpose, and the Board are not aware of any reason for delay in proceeding to carry it out, and therefore respectfully urge that steps be taken to proceed with it as soon as possible. This work has the merit of providing reproductive employment upon which the married, unskilled labourers of the metropolitan area, who find a difficulty in leaving their homes, could be employed in the neighbourhood during the most trying season of the year. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, SYDNEY SMITH, The Eight Honorable G. H. Eeid. P.C., M.P., Premier, Sydney. Chairman. George-street Asylum, Barramatta. Sir, Unemployed Advisory Board, Sydney, 7 June, 1899. During the visit of the Unemployed Advisory Board to the George-street, Parramatta, Asylum, made for the purpose of ascertaining the number of men whose services could be utilised if provision were made for the establishment of labour settlements, the Board were very much concerned at the great and apparent danger to the large number of inmates should a fire break out in the building. Although this matter does not fall within the immediate scope of their duties, the Board feel that you will not take it out of place if they respectfully draw your serious attention to the present position of affairs, it having been stated that barely 5 per cent, of the inmates of the Hospital, numbering about 400, could escape if a fire broke out in the night-time. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, SYDNEY SMITH, The Eight Honorable G. H. Eeid, P.C., M.P., Premier, Sydney. Chairman. North40 North Sydney Cemetery and Lane Cove River Bridge. Sir, Unemployed Advisory Board, Sydney, 9 June, 1899. The Unemployed Advisory Board respectfully urge upon the consideration of the Government a proposal to set apart certain land for a cemetery for North Sydney and the clearing of the same, together with the construction of a road and approaches to the proposed bridge over the Lane Cove River near Chatswood, the site of which is now, the Board understand, under consideration, and also the approaches from Gladesville and Ryde. It has been represented to the Board that the making of this road, bridge, and approaches would satisfy a long-felt want, and afford access from the Field of Mars to Chatswood and the new suburbs on the North Shore line. If this can be held to be a necessary and reproductive work it would doubtless afford employment to about 100 men during the winter months. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, SYDNEY SMITH, The Right Honorable G* H. Reid, P.C., M.P., Premier, Sydney. Chairman. Engagement of Men for Murrumburrah Siding. Sir, Unemployed Advisory Board, Sydney, 12 June, 1899. "With reference to the employment of men on the grading of the Southern line near Murrum- burrah, the Unemployed Advisory Board understand that it has been decided to engage all the men oil the spot, and they therefore respectfully point out that this course will be very inconvenient to the unem- ployed of the metropolitan area, some of whom might go down at considerable expense and then find that they wTere unsuitable for the work. The Board therefore suggest that a quota of the men from the metropolitan area be selected through the Labour Bureau in Sydney. With regard to the country unemployed, wrho apply and are engaged on the spot, the Board urge that an officer of the Labour Bureau be instructed to attend and ascertain whether the applicants can produce electors' rights or other satisfactory evidence that they are residents in this Colony, and not recent arrivals from other colonies, attracted by the announcement of the work. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, SYDNEY SMITH, The Right Honorable G. II. Reid, P.C., M.P., Premier, Sydney. Chairman. Road to Burragorang Mining Field. Sir, Unemployed Advisory Board, Sydney, 12 June, 1899. I have the honor to inform you representations have been made to the Unemployed Advisory Board that the mining field at Burragorang, although only in the prospecting stage, is deserving of the favourable attention of the Government. At least one of the mines has produced encouraging results, notwithstanding the expense the owners have been put to in consequence of being compelled to convey the ore over an almost impassable road in order to have it treated at the Dapto Works. It is said that the present condition of the road not only retards the development of the land already taken up, but also seriously interferes with other prospecting operations. It is understood that Mr. Pittman, of the Mines Department, who recently visited the field, and Mr. Warden Gibson, report hopefully of its future prospects. So well does Mr. Pittman think of the out- look of this field that he suggested an exceptional course should be taken, and a portion of the Prospecting Yote set apart for the purpose of providing additional facilities to the mine-owners in the district to continue their operations under something like satisfactory conditions. The Board do not urge that this course be pursued, recognising that it is purely a road matter, properly chargeable to the Road Yote, but they ask that the Honorable the Minister for Works be consulted as to whether assistance could be given to those who, at considerable expense and under dis- advantageous conditions, have done much prospecting work in the locality. The construction of this road would give employment to a number of the unemployed resident in the district, or sent up from Sydney for the purpose. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, SYDNEY SMITH, The Right Honorable G. II. Reid, P.C., M.P., Premier, Sydney. Chairman. Fores t- th inn ing. Sir, Unemployed Advisory Board, 19 June, 1899. Adverting to my letter of the 29th May last, I have the honor to bring under the notice of the Government a suggestion of the Unemployed Advisory Board that the work of forest-thinning be proceeded with. Erom information furnished to the Board, it is understood that many thousands of acres of forest land have already been dealt with in this way, and with most satisfactory results, the grazing capabilities of the land having been improved, and the number of trees which will eventually reach maturity materially increased. The Board respectfully suggest that, in forming gangs of men for forest-thinning work, parties of five be despatched instead of any larger number, it having been pointed out to the Board that there is less trouble in arranging for and making up gangs of five. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, SYDNEY SMITH, The Right Honorable G. H. Reid, P.C., M.P., Premier, Sydney. Chairman. --Bogan41 Bogan Scrub Lands. Sir, Unemployed Advisory Board, Sydney, 19 June, 1899. Adverting to my letter of the 29th May last, I have the honor to bring under the notice of the Government a suggestion of the Unemployed Advisory Board that the scrub-cutting operations at the Bogan be carried out in as extensive a manner as possible, in order to provide employment for some of the unemployed of the city and country. The Board were pleased to learn that a number of men have recently been sent away to this work, and respectfully suggest that, in forming future gangs, parties of live be despatched instead of any larger number, it having been pointed out to the Board that there is less trouble in arranging for and making up parties of five. I have the honor to be, Sir, Tour most obedient Servant, SYDNEY SMITH, The Eight Honorable G. II. Eeid, P.O., M.P., Premier, Sydney. Chairman. Repainting Public Buildings. Sir, 30 June, 1899. I have the honor to intimate that representations have been made to the Unemployed Advisory Board that considerable depreciation of property is resulting from delay in repainting certain public buildings, more especially with regard to the General Post Office, Public Works Office, Lands Office, Colonial Secretary's Office, Little Bay Hospital, and other public buildings in the country. The Board, therefore, respectfully urge that this class of work be proceeded with as expeditiously as possible, as it will have the merit of preserving public buildings and giving employment to a number of men who are at present unfortunately out of work. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, SYDNEY SMITH, The Eight Honorable G. H. Eeid, P.C., M.P., Premier, Sydney. Chairman. P richly-pear Eradication. Sir, Unemployed Advisory Board, Sydney, 12 July, 1899. Adverting to my letter of the 29th May last, I have the honor to intimate that representations have been made to the Unemployed Advisory Board that large areas of vacant Crowrn Land are being rendered useless by reason of the growth of prickly pear, and that, although private owners and con- ditional lessees are required to eradicate the pest, it has been found impossible to fully enforce the pro- visions of the Act in respect to private lands, because the Government have virtually taken no steps to cope with it, except by letting certain land on improvement lease. Large areas of reserves and Crown Land, thickly affected with prickly pear, remain uncleared, forming a menace to land-owners who are making praiseworthy efforts to deal with the increasing pest. In many cases the reserves form a series of seed-beds from which the pear is distributed, causing serious losses. The Board, therefore, strongly urge that energetic measures be at once taken to operate on the more thickly-infested reserves in the Hunter District, leaving other lands to be dealt with later. This work, the Board are informed, will ultimately repay the Government not only by improving the land operated upon, but by saving country so far not affected, and further, it will afford employment to a number of able-bodied men. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, SYDNEY SMITH, The Eight Honorable G. H. Eeid, P.C., M.P., Premier, Sydney. Chairman. Glebe Island. Sir, Unemployed Advisory Board, Sydney, 13 July, 1899. I have the honor to intimate that the Unemployed Advisory Board visited Glebe Island for the purpose of ascertaining whether employment could be profitably found for a number of able-bodied men, and in the course of their inquiries were informed that about 225 men are at present employed in obtaining and carrying stone for the approaches to the Glebe Island Bridge and some reclamation works. The work in connection with the approaches will, it is stated, be completed in about four or five weeks' time, when at least 100 men will be thrown out of employment, unless other work be found for them. The Board were favourably impressed with the possibilities of doing valuable work on this Island by cutting part of it down and utilising the material for reclamation and the construction of walls round the Island for wharfage purposes. The execution of this work would render available valuable sites for warehouses, factories, timber yards, &c., and provide about 4,000 feet frontage to White and Johnstone's Bays, with a depth of water (after dredging the silt) varying from 28 to 38 feet, and about 2,000 feet frontage to Eozelle Bay, where the depth of water has not yet been definitely ascertained. The area of Glebe Island is about 33 acres, and with the reclamations necessary to get deep water, without interfering with the fairway, an area of fully 50 acres would be available. With the exception of the portion used for the Abattoirs the Island is at present practically unoccupied. It appeared to the Board a great pity that such a valuable asset as this could be made should so. long have remained unimproved. The Government wharfs already erected are extensively used, and even the additional accommodation now being provided at Darling Harbour will, it is said, be readily taken up when completed. As the demand for wharfage accommodation is in a westerly direction, the Board have no doubt that when the work now suggested is completed the Government will find no difficulty in putting it to practical and remunerative uses. 295 —E Although42 Although the Board are strongly of the opinion that the Island improvements, herein suggested, can be defended irrespective of railway communication, they nevertheless feel that the time is not far distant when the G-overnment will think it desirable to take into consideration the question of extending the railway, from the suburban line near Petersham, to the Island, and possibly also connecting with the Southern line. These connections would add materially to the value of the Government property by affording facilities for the growing export trade, enabling goods to be taken direct from the ship's side to the country, and to warehouses, depots, or factories established on the island for subsequent distribution. The congested, traffic in the tunnel from lied fern Station to Darling Harbour would also be relieved. The improved tram service to Harris-street, with the prospect of an extension westward, owing to the new bridge, will afford easy access to the Island from the business part of the metropolis. The work of partly cutting down, reclaiming, and constructing walls on this valuable property should, in the opinion of the Board, be carried out without further delay. It would have the merit, not only of giving continued employment to the men already at work there, and whose time will shortly expire, but additional hands to the number of 300 or 400 could be profitably employed on this important undertaking. The work could be carried on without interfering with the Abattoirs, although eventually, if it is decided to retain them on this Island, it might be found advisable to make alterations to suit the changed conditions of the surroundings. I have the honor to be,. Sir, Your most obedient Servant, SYDNEY SMITH, The Eight Honorable Gr. II. Eeid, P.O., M.P., Premier, Sydney. Chairman. Sir, Unemployed Advisory Board, Sydney, 7 August, 1899. Representations having been made to the Unemployed Advisory Board that in selecting able- bodied men through the Labour Bureau for the Bogan scrub cutting, forest thinning, and other work, the practice is to ballot first, and then subject the successful men to a further selection, with the result that some are rejected on account of unfitness for the work. The Board submit that if, out of the number of men applying, those considered physically fit to perform a fair day's work for the wage offered were selected before, instead of after, the ballot, much time would be saved in balloting, and there would be less ground for dissatisfaction on the part of the men who, after waiting the result of the ballot and being successful in the drawing, find themselves rejected on the ground of unsuitability. With regard to those works where a fixed price has been settled on a fair wage basis, such as forest thinning, &c., there seems to be no objection to the men successful in the ballot being allowed to proceed to carry out the work so long as they are satisfied to take it. It is alleged that men successful in the ballot have been rejected before trial, because it was thought they did not possess the requisite physical qualifications. The Board consider that if there are any amongst the applicants, who for good reasons should not be employed, the process of selection should be carried out before the ballot is taken, unless some dis- qualifying circumstance subsequently transpires. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your obedient Servant, SYDNEY SMITH, The Right Honorable Gr. II. Reid, P.O., M.P., Premier, Sydney. Chairman. Sir, Unemployed Advisory Board, Sydney, 30 August, 1899. I have the honor to inform you that several delegates from the unemployed waited upon me to-day, and suggested the advisableness of carrying out soaie of the works referred to in the attached advertisement by day-labour. Although tenders closed oil Monday last, I am informed that the contracts have not yet been let. While there may be considerable difficulty in performing all the works in the manner suggested, this Board think that it might be possible to carry out some of them by day-labour without injury to the public interest. If this could be done, it would assist in giving employment to a number of men who have been registered at the Bureau for a considerable time past. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, SYDNEY SMITH, The Right Honorable G. H. Reid, P.C., M.P., Premier, Sydney. Chairman. Sir, Unemployed Advisory Board, Sydney, G September, 1899. I have the honor to inform you that certain representations having been made to this Board animadverting upon the quality and manner of distribution of the rations supplied to the unemployed through the Labour Bureau, a sub-committee of the Board was appointed to attend on the occasion of last Friday's distribution, with a view to ascertaining whether the complaints made were well grounded. The sub-committee reported that on investigation they found in one case the meat supplied was considerably tainted, but on this being pointed out by one of the members, good meat wras substituted. The sub-committee found that the flour was not of good quality, being musty and dark in colour ; the condensed milk issued had ceased to be soluble; and a piece of meat, supposed to weigh 8 lb., was found to contain a bone weighing nearly 3 lb., and was cut from the lower part of the shin. Complaints wTere made that children sent for the rations were imposed upon, inferior meat being given to them.43 The place of distribution is an objectionable one; the rations are given out at a small window opening on a narrow lane. There is no shelter from the weather, and as the distribution occupies upwards of five hours, many applicants are kept waiting for a considerable time. In view of tins report of the sub-committee the Board respectfully suggest that if it is intended to continue the supply of rations, an officer be appointed to inspect and superintend the distribution, that fresh milk be furnished instead of condensed, and that more suitable premises be provided. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, SYDNEY SMITH, The Eight Honorable G. II. Eeid, P.O., M.P., Premier, Sydney. Chairman, Appendix B. Report on Labour Conditions in New Zealand. [Presented to the Unemployed Advisory Board by the Yen. Archdeacon Langley, Qth December, 1899.] On arriving in New Zealand one is immediately impressed, not only with the entire change in the character and appearance of the country, but in the condition of its people. Coming from Sydney, with its parks and thoroughfares crowded with men waiting about without employment, many of them asking alms, at Auckland you mix with a population among whom there appears to be no real want—where for every able-bodied man there appears to be plenty of employment—and where the people seem exceptionally happy and well satisfied. This was certainly my first impression of New Zealand. The loveliness of the scenery, with green hills and trees, and foliage in the freshness of spring, give it the appearance of a Great Britain in the Pacific—the home of a wealthy, prosperous community, where every labourer can find employment, and every family a home. A closer investigation, and more intimate acquaintance with the people, showed, however, that, in spite of appearances, there was poverty which had to be dealt with; that here, as elsewhere, there were large calls upon the charity of the community. But, so far as the unemployed are concerned, my earliest impressions remained. New Zealand has, practically, no unemployed problem to solve. The country at the present time knows nothing of the troubles that are pressing upon us. It has not, however, been so always. I was assured that, years ago, things were very different; that that Colony suffered as we appear to do so, constantly, and that unemployed agitations were frequent. All this has passed away, In writing to the Premier of New Zealand just before leaving, I said that in his Colony the unemployed problem had practically been solved, provided that the present condition of things proved permanent, and that it was not obtained at too high a cost. It appearing to me that I could best assist this Board by seeking to discover the means by which such a result had been brought about, I made careful inquiries, which led me to the conclusion that this satisfactory position is attributable partly to certain things peculiar to New Zealand, and, partly, to legislation. With regard to the first, the Colony is capable of supporting a large population in the cultivation of the soil and occupations upon the land. There is a great extent of good land available for cultivation ; and the regularity of the seasons, the regular rainfall, and the entire absence of droughts such as devastate Australia, make it possible for pastoralists and farmers to expend money and labour with reasonable certainty of a return. Though in some places the land is exceedingly rich, it is not better than some large areas which we possess. But the abundant rain, falling regularly, changes the whole character of operations upon the land. This applies to the grazier of sheep or cattle, but still more to the tiller of the soil. Men can take up small areas of land, and by judicious cultivation make a good living. As an illustration, I may mention the case of a settler I visited in one of the Government subdivisions at Hawke's Bay, who was doing fairly wrell on 21 acres of land, for which he paid interest and taxes amounting to £35 a year. He got an occasional day's work from the runholders, which helped him considerably ; but he stated that had he 40 acres instead of 20, he could do well, and, at certain seasons, employ labour himself. This man keeps sixteen milking cows upon his farm, besides horses and pigs, and also grows some crops. Then, in the North Island, the kauri gum-fields are a source of employment always open, wrhere, though men cannot earn satisfactory wages, they can always obtain sufficient to keep them from pauperism. There is no need for a man to seek alms, as, with the most primitive tools, an unskilled labourer can always obtain the wherewithal to provide himself with food. Another contrast between New Zealand and this Colony, which, I think, has something to do with its improved condition, is that the town population is not congested into one large city like Sydney or Melbourne. Not only have they Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, and Dunedin, each wTith its 50,000 inhabitants, more or less, but there are other large towns like Nelson, Napier, Timaru, and Port Chalmers. This, I think, tends to improve the condition of the country, and to provide more employment for the people. In the matter of special legislation for the working classes, New Zealand is certainly an object lesson. Whether such legislation prove effective or otherwise, the legislators of that Colony have shown a courage that is remarkable. They have dealt with problems upon which we have only theorised, and the political student has there a field for observation and inquiry of the most intensely interesting character. It is difficult, in writing upon the subject, to avoid the discussion of some of these questions, and expressing the opinions one has formed upon them ; but 1 feel that I can render the best service to the Board by confining my remarks to such legislation as deals definitely with the employment question, and giving such information thereupon as I have been able to gather. Labour44 Labour Intelligence Department. I had the opportunity of seeing something of the working of the Labour Bureau in several of the large towns, and it appeared to me that the system has much to do with the prosperity of the workers. It has no less than 200 agencies at work throughout the Colony. By this means full information of the labour condition of every district is kept before the officials, and workers are shifted from the congested districts to places where there is a demand for labour. An applicant, when registered, is required to report weekly, either personally or by letter, until employment has been found. Employers are encouraged to make use of the Bureau by the care exercised by the officers in their selections. The persons in the various districts who act as agents appear to take an intelligent view of their position, and to perform their duties satis- factorily. They are either Government officials or members of the Police Force. Men employed through the Bureau are sent forward to their destination by railroad, steamer, or coach, care being taken that the cost is duly repaid by the worker. It appeared to me that there was among the officers of the Bureau a very earnest sympathy with the workers, and a distinct sense of their responsibility. A monthly paper, called the Journal of the Department of Labour, is issued regularly, and largely circulated. This journal gives full and interesting information upon all labour questions, not only in New Zealand, but in other countries. It appears ably edited, and I should think is a valuable agency in the work. The usefulness of this Department is, however, considerably impeded by the comparatively small number of employers of labour who avail themselves of its aid. Out of 2,115 persons who were found work for the year ended 31st March last, only 638 were sent to private employment. This, doubtless, is due in some measure to the fact that many employers have their own agents, who in the past have supplied their wants, and whose services they do not care to dispense with ; but I think it is also largely due to the bitterness of party spirit. The wealthy classes generally resent a good deal of the recent labour legislation, and, as a consequence, will have nothing to do with any of the machinery that it has provided ; but I think that confidence in the Bureau is growing, and that in a few years much of the prejudice against it will pass away. A large share of the time and attention of the Department is devoted to forwarding men to co-operative works, to which system I shall now proceed to refer. Co-operative Works. Whatever may be the advantage or "disadvantage of co-operative works, there can be no doubt that to them the Colony is mainly indebted for its condition in the matter of the employment of the workers; and upon that subject it was my special desire to obtain all possible information. My time was too short, and my opportunities too limited, to enable me to form an independent judgment, and so 1 endeavoured to find out the opinions of all sorts and conditions of men. My great difficulty was that this, above every other ameliorating scheme, was the centre round which bitter party spirit raged. The friends and supporters of the present Government were loud in its praise; all persons, in the House and out, who were opposed to the Ministry, were strong in their denunciation of the system. Those in its favour put it very much as Mr. Blow does in his little paper already in your hands. They say that, prior to the introduction of this system, large profits were made by the contractors, practically at the expense of the workmen; that this was not even the worst, but that these contractors largely let the work to sub-contractors, who took it at a lower rate, and either made money by sweating the workers, or lost money at the expense of the business people, from whom they purchased materials, or of the workmen to whom they failed to pay the full amount of their wages. Further, that a great deal of congestion was brought about in the labour market by the contract system; that when works were about to start, large numbers of men crowded to the locality; the contractor meanwhile brought his staff of navvies with him, so that the works were no relief to the local labour market, but rather otherwise. It is contended by the officers of the Government that the effect of the co-operative system is not only to give men a fair day's pay for a fair day's work, but to enable them to secure the profit, which was previ- ously secured to the contractor ; that it places the workman on a higher level; that he is practically his own master, and is likely to take a greater interest in his work. Above all, they hold that it is advantageous to the State; that the works are carried out for their actual value, and that it gives the Government complete control over its own expenditure; that it enables the Government to have public works completed in due time, as, under pressing circumstances, they are able to put on as many men as the engineer can employ. It is also maintained that the work is done with greater efficiency; that there is no risk of scamping or putting in inferior material, and that work done under the system will show to advantage when compared with that done by contractors. Another advantage claimed for it is that when, for financial or other reasons, it is considered desirable to delay for a time the completion of any work, such a course can be adopted without loss to the Government by way of compensation to contractors. It is held by the opponents of the system that it can be made an instrument of political corruption; that by its agency large bodies of men may be removed to any one part of the country for a time, for voting purposes; that it was in the power of a Ministry, when an important election was pending, to set going some public work in that constituency in order to secure the election of the Government repre- sentative. It was further stated that political influence can be so brought to bear upon the Government officers that through fear of dismissal they would fail to exercise a proper supervision. It was also thought that the wages earned by the men were higher than could be obtained for similar work in private employ- ment, and that the system had the effect of withdrawing men from every other class of employment to the detriment of the industry of the country. It was also constantly stated that inferior work was allowed to pass; that the system necessitated larger expenditure in supervision; and that the work cost considerably more than if it had been carried out under the old contract system. Another strong objection raised against it was that it was almost impossible to get gangs of men of equal strength and capacity, and that the system tended to discourage the more vigorous workers to do their best work; that the tendency was to bring all down to a common level. I was assured that in this respect some discontent existed among he workers themselves. To45 To what extent these objections, i£ valid, apply to the system itself, as distinguished from details in carrying it out, must be left for the consideration of those who propose to introduce it among ourselves. Certain facts respecting it are beyond question. 1st. It absorbs the unemployed, and explains to a large extent the fact that since the adoption of the system, eight years ago, there has been 110 unemployed agitation in New Zealand. 2nd. It encourages the settlement of men and their families away from the great centres of population. When men are engaged upon the works in any locality, the officers of the Labour Department provide, when so desired, travelling expenses for the workmen's families, either by railway, coach, or steamer, deducting the cost from the wages of the men, the liailway Department allowing 25 per cent, on the amount of the railway fares. These people, in some instances, settle down in the district, and when the work comes to an end, find occupation among private employers in the locality. 3rd. In every case where it is impossible or undesirable to remove the family, each workman signs an authority for the officers of the Department to pay one-half of his wages to his wife and family during his absence. By this means, care is taken that those dependent upon the employees shall be duly provided for. The extent to which the system has been availed of is interesting. In the month of September 3,3-18 men were engaged on these works. Strong expressions of disapproval of the system might be heard among some of the most intelligent and thoughtful men in New Zealand; indeed, one clever and influential man, with whom I had a long conversation, stated that if, as the result of the general election shortly to be held, a new Government came into existence, one of the first things it would do, would be to put an end to the system. But he failed to suggest any other means of dealing with the unemployed, to take its place. A leading dignitary of the Church of England, a man of wide sympathy and great influence, gave me his opinion upon the subject, in a conversation I had with him. He said that the co-operative works were more costly to the Government than the old contract system, but that it saved the Government and the country more than the extra cost, by its absorption of the unemployed; and that the men and their families were, by its means, saved from pauperism and encouraged in habits of industry. The Levin State Farm. Among the various schemes devised for relief of the unemployed, the Government of New Zealand decided upon establishing a State farm. After considerable inquiry they chose as its site a block of 800 acres of land at Levin, about 50 miles from Wellington, and in September, 1894, commenced work with thirty-seven men, with fifty-five dependents. The land was a forest of heavy timber and thick scrub, and the clearing was most expensive. The clearing was done under the co-operative works system, and the men paid full wages for their labour. The timber on the estate was a valuable asset, and returned to the Government <£1,250 in the first four years. A great deal of work had necessarily to be done in road-making, fencing, erecting cottages for the men; and for all this labour, full rates were paid to the workers. While I approve of the course thus taken, it must be remembered that it involved a much larger expenditure than would have been incurred by private settlers taking up the land. I suppose that very few pioneers, either in Australia or JSTew Zealand, could make 6s. 6d. or 7s. a day out of their land for the first four years of settlement. The total amount voted by Parliament for carrying on the operations of the farm for the first four years was £8,289, which, in addition to the receipts, covered all expenditure for that period. By a curious coincidence this amount almost exactly corresponded with the wages paid to the workers for the same period. The receipts for these four years amounted to £3,875, which may be stated thus :— 1894-5. 1S95-0. 1.896-7. 1897-8. Total. £ s. d. £ s. d. £ s. d. £ s. d. £ s. d. Timber .......................................... 396 2 8 312 17 6 476 15 11 65 7 9 1,251 3 10 Agriculture and other sources ............ 86 2 4 508 15 9 1,066 15 8 963 1 6 2,624 15 3 The assets of the farm at the end of the period named were as follows:— £ s. d. £ s. d. £ s. d. Fencing.......................................................................... 528 0 0 Roads made, &c............................................................... 459 0 0 Bush felled .................................................................... 752 0 0 • Buildings ..................................................................... 1,510 0 0 Fruit-trees, vines, &c....................................................... 336 0 0 Estimated value of 15 acres, used as an orchard, at £30 per acre 450 0 0 Plantations fenced and planted .......................................... 70 0 0 -- 4,105 0 0 Estimated crops ............................................................... 160 0 0 Pumps, water-troughs, windmills, separator, farm tools, &c. ... 442 0 0 Cattle, horses, pigs, &c.................................... ................. 941 0 0 ------ 1,543 0 0 -- 5,651 0 0 This would show a loss to the Government of £2,650, which is more than made up by the improved value of the land. I was assured that were the Government desirous of disposing of the farm they could do so at a rate sufficient to pay all the amount of their expenditure, with interest added. I have entered somewhat fully into this matter, because I had to convince myself that the opinion freely expressed in New Zealand, that the farm was a failure, was incorrect. I think, under the circum- stances, it may be pronounced a success. On one or two points, however, I venture to make suggestions :— 1. In the clearing of the land it seems to me that much more might have been made of the timber on the estate. The amount received on that account was £1,251 for a period extending over four years ; out of which I find that £456 was received for royalty on timber. Surely a considerable source of profit must have been lost. Had the course adopted elsewhere been carried out at Levin, a six-horse power- engine purchased, and a small sawmill plant erected, I should think that the timber might have become a valuable46 valuable asset. Again, a flax-dressing plant might have been obtained as soon as the flax could be grown, and thus employment found for some of the people on the estate during the winter. Some other industries might also have been set to work to provide for a larger population to consume the produce, and thus con- siderably to increase the income ; but I think it is probable that this latter suggestion may be contem- plated by Mr. Mackey, who has the establishment under his control. I only make these suggestions in view of any experiments in the same direction, which may be decided upon by our Government, 2. I think it would have greatly saved expenditure if there had been from the first a system by which the men were paid a daily or weekly wage, with board and lodging. This would have been more economical, and, I think, equally satisfactory to the men. Then I would suggest that in connection with the farm a store should have been kept, where the men could purchase whatever they required at a reason- able rate, they being allowed credit up to the amount of their earnings. I believe that if some plan such as I have sketched had been adopted, the ,£2,600 of apparent loss would have been saved. 3. I think it is a good plan to pay the officers of the Institution by a commission instead of by salaries. In our Labour Home I have adopted this course with decided advantage, and I can see no reason why even the workers on this estate should not have been paid, partially, on similar lines. This would have given the men a deeper interest in the concern. The latest information I had respecting the farm shows distinct development, from a financial point of view. The income to 31st March was £1,300, against an expenditure of £1,700, of which £1,200 was spent on permanent improvements. The land is evidently very rich, capable of producing 14 or 15 tons of potatoes, 28 tons of carrots, 45 bushels of oats to the acre, and enormous crops of turnips, mangolds,