Second Reading of the Reform 
 Bill 
 
 JN 
 
 215 
 
 1832 
 
 D8
 
 LORD DURHAM'S SPEECH 
 
 SECOND HEADING 
 
 THE REFORM BILL.
 
 LORD DURHAM'S 
 
 SPEECH 
 
 THE SECOND READING 
 
 OF THE 
 
 HOUSE OF LORDS, FRIDAY, 13th APRIL, 1852. 
 
 LONDON : 
 JAMES RIDGWAY, 169, PICCADILLY. 
 
 MDCCCXXXII.
 
 LONDON t 
 PRINTED BY T, BRETTELL, RUPERT STREET, HAYMARKET.
 
 HOUSE OF LORDS, 
 
 FRIDAY, APRIL 13, 1832. 
 
 MY LORDS, 
 
 JNoT having had an opportunity, either of de- 
 claring my sentiments, or even giving a personal 
 vote on this most important Question, when it was 
 before the House last, I naturally feel anxious to 
 take advantage of the present moment, and trespass 
 on your attention for a short space of time. I am 
 the more desirous of doing so now, because, from 
 the severe and painful indisposition under which I 
 have lately laboured, and from which I am in fact 
 still suffering, I fear that if I delay addressing 
 your Lordships till a later period of this night's 
 debate, I shall not have strength sufficient to enable 
 me to avail myself of the indulgence of the House. 
 I have listened with the greatest attention to 
 the long, and may I be permitted to add, desultory 
 speech of the Noble and Learned Lord (Wynford) 
 who has just sat down ; and I can assure him, that 
 
 B
 
 c 
 
 if any interruption came, during a part of that 
 speech, from this side of the House, it was not 
 with the view of impeding the course of the Noble 
 Lord's arguments, but merely for the purpose of 
 setting him right as to the grounds on which those 
 arguments were founded. As for the speech of 
 the Noble and Learned Lord, it has embraced 
 many topics and related to many subjects : but of 
 these, some are entirely unconnected with the ques- 
 tion itself, and others with its present stage. In 
 one portion, he alluded to the Household of their 
 Majesties ; in another, to the inconsistency of the 
 Reverend Bench ; in a third, to the state of the Irish 
 Church ; and in a fourth, to the state of the Manu- 
 factures of India. The Noble and Learned Lord also 
 entered into a long examination of the details of 
 the Bill, into which I cannot follow him, because 
 the principle of the Measure is alone under discus- 
 sion at the present moment. Of this, indeed, the 
 Noble and Learned Lord seemed to be fully aware 
 himself, when he apologized for detaining your 
 Lordships so long in discussing the Clauses of the 
 Bill, on the ground that, as we were not likely to 
 go into a Committee, he should never have an 
 opportunity of examining them. Now, as I feel 
 certain that this Bill will go into a Committee, I 
 must decline following a course so inconsistent with 
 the rules and regulations of the House.
 
 My Lords, I must say, however, that the close 
 and laborious attention which I paid to the Noble 
 and Learned Lord's speech, has been in some de- 
 gree repaid by the pleasure of finding that he, at 
 least, has not adopted that tone of party rancour 
 and personal animosity towards His Majesty's 
 Ministers, which has, in so marked a manner dis- 
 tinguished the debates of the two last nights. 
 Very different, indeed, was the tone and temper of 
 his speech from that which proceeded from the 
 Reverend Bench on the last night. Of that exhi- 
 bition on the part of a Reverend Bishop (Phill- 
 potts, Bishop of Exeter), I shall only say that, if 
 coarse and virulent invective malignant and false 
 insinuations the grossest perversion of historical 
 facts decked out with all the choicest flowers of 
 his well-known pamphleteering slang 
 
 The EARL OF WINCHILSEA rose to order, and 
 moved that the words " false insinuations" and 
 " pamphleteering slang," should be taken down. 
 After some observations from Earl Grey, Lord 
 Holland, and the Duke of Buckingham, LORD 
 DURHAM continued as follows : 
 
 My Lords, I was interrupted by the Noble Earl 
 in the course of a sentence I was addressing to 
 your Lordships, and it now seems to be his intention 
 that the words which I uttered should be taken 
 down. I have not the slightest objection to that
 
 8 
 
 course being adopted on the contrary and I 
 now state to your Lordships the reasons which 
 induced me to use those words. I shall not stop 
 to inquire whether the words " pamphleteering 
 " slang " were the most elegant which I could have 
 used. They do not perhaps suit the Noble Earl's 
 taste ; but they are the only words which I consider 
 can correctly describe the speech of the Reverend 
 Bishop (Phillpotts). Now, as to the words " ma- 
 " lignant and false insinuations.'" The Noble Duke 
 (Buckingham), who wishes me to retract them, 
 must, I am sure, well recollect that that Reverend 
 Bishop (Phillpotts), in the course of his harangue, 
 insinuated that some of His Majesty's Ministers 
 were unbecomingly connected with the Press. 
 From the terms in which that insinuation was 
 couched, I could have no doubt that he alluded 
 to me. It would be gross affectation in me to 
 deny it the more especially, as I had been pre- 
 viously told, by those who had read those papers, 
 that the same charge had been made against me, 
 by name, in those weekly publications which are 
 so notorious for their scurrility and indecency. 
 When, therefore, I found that charge repeated in 
 this House, in terms which neither I or any man 
 living could misunderstand, I determined to take 
 the earliest opportunity of stating to your Lord- 
 ships that it was as false as scandalous. I now
 
 repeat that declaration, and pause for the purpose 
 of giving any Noble Lord an opportunity of taking 
 down my words. 
 
 LORD DURHAM then resumed his seat for a 
 moment, but as no Noble Lord rose, he proceeded 
 to say 
 
 My Lords, As it seems no further interrup- 
 tion is to be offered me, I shall dismiss the subject 
 by saying, that I never will shrink from the oppor- 
 tunity of meeting before this House, or my country, 
 any charges or insinuations which may be directed 
 against me, from whatever quarter they may pro- 
 ceed. If I have expressed myself somewhat earnestly 
 and warmly, your Lordships will, I am sure, deem 
 me justified, when you reflect that, to all the tortures 
 of an afflicted mind, have been of late superadded 
 calumnies of the basest description calculated to 
 wound not only my own feelings, but those of all 
 who are dearest to me : but I now return to the 
 Question, from which I have been diverted by the 
 interruption of the Noble Earl. 
 
 My Lords, we have been charged by a Noble 
 and Gallant Duke (Wellington), and a Noble Earl 
 who sits on the third bench (Mansfield), with 
 having created that excitement in the public mind 
 which led to that general demand for Reform, 
 which is now admitted to prevail by many of 
 those who formerly denied its existence. On
 
 10 
 
 what facts those Noble Lords found their asser- 
 tion, I cannot comprehend. If there is any one 
 subject which more than another has been dis- 
 cussed, both in and out of Parliament, especially 
 within the last fifty years, it has been that of a 
 Reform in the Representation of the People. 
 From the Revolution, it has been advocated by 
 the most eminent men of which this country can 
 boast. From the year 1783, when the celebrated 
 Yorkshire Petition was presented, it has never 
 been lost sight of by the people ; taken up, it is 
 true, with more or less energy, according to the 
 circumstances of the times but always holding a 
 high place in their estimation, and connected by 
 them with the most vital interests of the country. 
 It was brought under the notice of Parliament 
 by the Duke of Richmond, in 1780 ; Mr. Pitt, in 
 1782, 1783, and 1784; and subsequently by Mr. 
 Flood, my Noble Relation at the head of the 
 Government, Sir F. Burdett, Mr. Brand, Lord 
 Archibald Hamilton, Lord John Russell, and 
 many others. The Noble and Gallant Duke, 
 therefore, is not supported by facts, when he says, 
 the feeling is one of late growth ; and still less 
 when he says, that it is owing to the examples of 
 the French and Belgian Revolutions of 1830. 
 That it has assumed a much more formidable 
 appearance within these last four or five years is
 
 11 
 
 true ; but not owing to the causes alleged by the 
 Noble and Gallant Duke. In my opinion, it has 
 been owing, in a great measure, to the repeated 
 refusals of your Lordships to grant representation 
 to the great towns of Leeds, Manchester, and 
 Birmingham, when the fitting opportunities were 
 afforded you ; it has also arisen from the expo- 
 sures which took place in the Parliamentary 
 inquiries relative to Grampound, Penryn, and 
 East Retford, laying bare scenes of the grossest 
 political profligacy and corruption ; but above all, 
 my Lords, it has been in consequence of the great 
 mass of the middle classes having at length 
 identified themselves with this Question. To this 
 part of the subject I particularly wish to call 
 your Lordships' attention, not only because I think 
 its full consideration involves one of the great and 
 leading principles of the Bill I mean the eman- 
 cipation of those classes, but because it will 
 account, in the only satisfactory mode, for the 
 intensity of feeling with which this Measure has 
 been received ; and will demonstrate the improba- 
 bility of the country being satisfied with any 
 less degree of Reform than that which is afforded 
 them by this Bill. 
 
 Your Lordships are, no doubt, too well read in 
 the history of your country not to be aware, that, 
 up to the Revolution of 1688, the object of each 
 successive struggle was to prevent the Sovereign
 
 from obtaining despotic power. At that period 
 the Crown was defeated, and has ever since been 
 dependent on, and at the mercy of, two parties of 
 the higher orders between whom the contest 
 for political power has been bitter and incessant 
 whilst the people were well or ill governed, 
 according to the principles of the party which was 
 predominant. For a long time, the people acqui- 
 esced in the supremacy of the higher orders, and 
 their exclusive possession of political privileges. 
 Conscious of their own incompetency, from want 
 of education, to enjoy those privileges, they felt no 
 jealousy, and offered no opposition to the mono- 
 poly vested in their superiors. But, my Lords, 
 a great change has taken place within the last 
 fifty years in the state of society. The two ex- 
 tremes have been gradually meeting the one 
 standing still, whilst the other has been gradually 
 improving. It cannot be concealed, that the 
 middle classes have increased, of late, in skill, 
 talent, political intelligence, and wealth, to such 
 an extent, that they are, and feel that they are, 
 competent to the performance of higher duties. 
 They thus, naturally enough, feel ambitious to be 
 no longer excluded from their fair share of poli- 
 tical power : and the result of their continued 
 exclusion must be a political convulsion and 
 necessarily a destructive one for the unnatural 
 compression of great power by insufficient means,
 
 13 
 
 always ends not only in the annihilation of the 
 feeble bonds which restrain it, but in the destruc- 
 tion of all that is within the range of its ex- 
 plosion. 
 
 That the middle classes have a right to indulge 
 in these feelings, no accurate observer of the state 
 of society can deny. The Noble Duke opposite, 
 the proprietor of St. Mawes, (Buckingham) has 
 thought proper to describe them as paupers as 
 beggars. So far from this being the fact, their 
 wealth more than doubles, nearly trebles that of 
 the higher orders*. As for their intelligence 
 look at all the great towns of the Empire this 
 Metropolis, Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham, Shef- 
 field, Liverpool, Newcastle, Edinburgh, Glasgow, 
 and many others and by whom will you find the 
 scientific institutions, the literary societies, the 
 charities in short, all associations tending to the 
 advancement of arts, literature, and of science, 
 and to the amelioration of the human kind by 
 whom will you find them supported ? by whose 
 example and whose purse maintained ? By the 
 Middle Classes. 
 
 The gentry, living apart in the country, 
 enjoy the luxuries and amusements peculiar to 
 their class, but mix neither in the pursuits or 
 
 In 1814, Colquhoun estimated the income of the pro- 
 ductive classes at .292,555,147 that of the unproductive, 
 at .137,966,225.
 
 relaxations of their neighbours in the towns. 
 Whenever they are brought together in pub- 
 lic meetings, on political occasions, their supe- 
 riority in learning or intellect is no longer 
 manifest the reverse is the fact ; and I can 
 assure the Noble Baron (Ellenborougii), that 
 whether he is right or wrong in the opinion he 
 entertains, with regard to the inferiority of in- 
 tellect displayed by the newly-returned Members, 
 if he were to attend any of the meetings of the 
 middle classes, and enter into a discussion with 
 them on political or scientific subjects, he would 
 have no reason to plume himself on his fancied 
 superiority. This being the case then, the question 
 is naturally asked, is that a fit and proper state of 
 the Constitution, which excludes from the en- 
 joyment of political power and privileges a large 
 body of men, possessed of talents, skill, and 
 wealth, merely because they do not happen to 
 be included in a particular class, endowed with 
 privileges bestowed upon them in different times, 
 and different circumstances ? I contend, therefore, 
 my Lords, that these feelings alone would be 
 sufficient to induce the people to desire that the 
 advantages, as well as the burthens, of the Con- 
 stitution should be extended to them. But were 
 there no other reasons ? Did the working of the 
 Constitution, in its present exclusive state, produce 
 no other mischievous effects than their exclusion ? 
 Did those who virtually represented them as the
 
 15 
 
 Noble and Learned Lord (Wynford) says did 
 they perform the duties of their trust advan- 
 tageously to the country ? The answer, my 
 Lords, which the people give to these questions is, 
 and always has been, in the negative. I can 
 accumulate proofs upon proofs of the correctness 
 of this assertion a few will suffice. It appears, 
 that when this corrupt Parliamentary system first 
 came into operation I mean shortly after the 
 Revolution the National Debt amounted to 
 .16,000,000 ; at the end of the last war, in 1814, 
 it had risen very nearly to .800,000,000. The 
 National Expenditure had increased, during that 
 time,from .5,600,000 to more than .94,000,000. 
 The Poor Rates from .1,000,000 to .7,000,000. 
 In one reign alone, that of George III., 
 .27,000,000 were lavished in subsidies to all the 
 great powers of the continent*. In the same 
 
 . 
 
 * Austria . . . 7,070,000 
 
 Prussia . . . 1,683,000 
 
 Russia . . . 1,952,000 
 
 Sicily . . . 2,300,000 
 
 Sweaen . . . 2,706,673 
 
 Spain- . . . 2,637,831 
 
 Ditto . . . 673,441 
 
 Portugal . . . 8,380,000 
 
 .27,402,945 
 
 exclusive of of.4,000,000, granted to French, Corsican, and 
 Toulouse emigrants French clergy St. Domingo, Russian, 
 Portuguese sufferers, &c. &c.
 
 16 
 
 period, the naval and military expenditure 
 amounted to .928,000,000 that is to say, the 
 luxury of indulging in war cost this country a sum 
 little less than ONE THOUSAND MILLIONS. All 
 these proofs of an unlimited and unchecked ex- 
 penditure, and many others*, which I need not 
 now detail, became known to the people at the 
 conclusion of the war. Great distress followed 
 much discontent and loud complaints prevailed 
 and how were they met ? by conciliation or con- 
 cession ? No by every species of repressive and 
 coercive enactment. Measures for preventing the 
 exercise of public meetings and petitioning for 
 fettering the Press for suspending the Habeas 
 Corpus Act for granting Indemnity Bills were 
 successively proposed to the House of Commons, 
 and immediately adopted by that Assembly. These 
 proceedings seem, if I may judge from their cheers, 
 to be approved of by the Noble Lords opposite; they 
 
 * Sir James Graham subsequently brought before Par- 
 liament another instance of the working of the present system, 
 the sums annually paid to Privy Councillors. He proved, 
 that of these 169 persons, 113 received .650,164 per an- 
 num ; of which .86,103 were for Sinecures, .121,650 for 
 Pensions, and .442,333 for active services. Of these 30 
 were Pluralists, receiving .221,133 per annum; 47 were 
 Peers, receiving .378,300 per annum ; and 22 were Mem- 
 bers of the House of Commons, receiving .90,849 per 
 annum.
 
 17 
 
 were not grateful to the people, I can assure them 
 who, seeing their liberties attacked, and their 
 resources squandered, through the instrumentality 
 of a House of Commons, theoretically the guardian 
 of both, naturally directed their attention to the 
 mode in which that House was chosen, which 
 neither represented their feelings or protected their 
 interests. The picture which was then presented 
 to them was no less startling and disgusting than 
 that of the state of their finances, to which I have 
 just alluded. They found one portion nominated by 
 Peers a second by Commoners a third by traf- 
 ficking attornies, selling seats to the highest bidder 
 a fourth owing its return to the most unblushing 
 bribery and corruption ; in one part of the Empire 
 a Park, with no population at all, or at least of 
 the smallest kind, returning two Members, in 
 another, a large and important town, with hun- 
 dreds of thousands of inhabitants, with no re- 
 presentation at all and even that small part of 
 the House still dependent on the public voice, so 
 fettered and circumscribed by the immense ex- 
 penditure required, as to be virtually placed in the 
 hands of a very small class. My Lords, all this 
 led to that state of things which has been so 
 prophetically and so accurately described by a 
 celebrated writer, whose name is so familiar to 
 Noble Lords opposite, and whose opinions are gene-
 
 rally so pleasing to them, that I make no apology 
 for substituting his glowing words for my feeble 
 expressions. Mr. Burke says : 
 
 " An addressing House of Commons, and a pe- 
 " titioning Nation a House of Commons full of 
 " confidence, when the Nation is plunged in de- 
 " spair in the utmost harmony with Ministers, 
 " whom the People regard with the utmost abhor- 
 " rence who vote thanks, when the public opinion 
 " calls upon them for impeachments who are 
 " eager to grant, when the general voice demands 
 " account who, in all disputes between the People 
 " and the Administration, presume against the 
 " People who punish their disorders, but refuse 
 " even to inquire into the provocations to them ; 
 " this is an unnatural, a monstrous state of things 
 " in this Constitution. 
 
 " Such an assembly may be a great, wise, awful 
 " Senate but it is not, to any popular purpose, a 
 " House of Commons." 
 
 My Lords, I think that I have now stated suffi- 
 cient reasons to account for the general prevalence 
 of that desire for Reform which now exists, and to 
 show that it did not owe its origin, either to our 
 instigation, or to the French and Belgian Revolu- 
 tions, as stated by the Noble and Gallant Duke 
 opposite (Wellington) ; at all events, of this I am 
 quite confident that to whatever causes it is to be
 
 19 
 
 ascribed, it can never be allayed or removed by 
 any other mode than that of a full and generous 
 compliance with the wishes of the People. Here, 
 however, I am met by the Noble Lords opposite, 
 who talk so loudly of the dangers of concession* 
 and the safety of resistance and by the Reverend 
 Bishop (Phillpotts), who preaches to us the neces- 
 sity of leaving the consequences to God. My 
 Lords, I say nothing of the impropriety of those 
 constant appeals to that sacred name, in this place 
 especially from such a quarter but I ask, is 
 history to be for ever a sealed book to those Noble 
 Lords? Are its pages to be for ever perverted by 
 the Reverend Bishop (Phillpotts)? Do they not 
 teem with instances of the folly and inutility of 
 resistance to the determined wishes of the People, 
 intent on the acquirement or restoration of their 
 rights ? When the consequences have been left to 
 Providence, has that resistance ever produced any 
 thing but a postponement of those claims, always 
 to be renewed with increased vigour, and ulti- 
 mately attended with complete success? My 
 Lords, I assert that the Revolution of 1641, the 
 French Revolution of 1785, and the separation of 
 the North Ameri can Colonies as was truly observed 
 by the Noble Baron on the cross benches (Wharn- 
 cliffe), might all have been averted by timely and 
 wise concession. Can any man, with the slightest
 
 20 
 
 knowledge of our history, attempt to persuade me, 
 that if Charles I., after conceding the Petition of 
 Rights, had kept his faith with his people, he 
 would not have saved his crown and his life ? 
 The Noble Duke (Buckingham), who alluded on 
 the last night to the fate of this king, argued on 
 what occurred at a subsequent time, when all con- 
 cessions were rendered useless by Charles's repeated 
 acts of treachery and his unconstitutional and 
 illegal violations of the rights and liberties of his 
 subjects. I refer to the first stage of these unhappy 
 proceedings, when, by wise and honest measures, 
 the monarchy might have been strengthened and 
 consolidated. Again, with reference to the French 
 Revolution, I say, that if Louis XVI. had adopted 
 the advice given him by his Ministers, the people 
 would have been satisfied the ancient institutions 
 of the country ameliorated the altar, the throne, 
 and the aristocracy, preserved from the horrible 
 fate which afterwards befel them. Twice had 
 Louis XVI. opportunities first, under Turgot's 
 ministry ; secondly, under Necker's, of concili- 
 ating the country, and averting that fatal catas- 
 trophe, by limited concessions. The nobility 
 resisted and the Revolution followed. The Noble 
 Baron (Wharncliffe) has so ably detailed you the 
 impolicy of our resistance to the claims of the 
 North American Colonies, that I need only add to
 
 his powerful argument my own conviction, that if, 
 after the Repeal of the Stamp Act, England had 
 not destroyed all the benefit of that concession, by 
 the Declaratory Act, and the re-imposition of the 
 Tea Duties, North America would at this hour 
 have been a portion of the British empire. My 
 Lords, I repeat, therefore, fortified by these exam- 
 ples, that when the consequences have been left to 
 Providence, according to the suggestion of the 
 Reverend Bishop (Phillpotts), the course of events 
 has always been uniform in the first instance, 
 bigotted resistance to the claims of the people in 
 the second, bloody and protracted struggles ; and 
 finally, but invariably, unlimited, disgraceful, but 
 then useless concession. 
 
 But, my Lords, have those of you who talk of 
 resistance, calculated the comparative amount of 
 forces which are arranged on each side? On the 
 one hand, are arrayed the Crown, the House of 
 Commons, and the People on the other, not Two 
 Hundred Peers if a majority, at least a bare one 
 of this House. Now, my Lords, supposing that 
 you reject this Bill a second time and supposing 
 that the People acquiesce quietly in your decision, 
 and that their feelings of disappointment do not 
 break out in open tumult and violence ; will there 
 be no punishment to you in the utter separation, 
 which must take place, between you and your 
 fellow-countrymen ? In the sentence of excommu- 
 
 c
 
 22 
 
 nication which they will pass upon you Are you 
 prepared to live in solitude in the midst of multi- 
 tudes your mansions fortified with cannon, (as 
 was lately that of the Noble Duke Newcastle) 
 and protected by troops of faithful, perhaps, but 
 if the hour of danger came, useless retainers ? 
 Surely there must be something in this state 
 of things most revolting to the habits and 
 feelings of a British Peer and yet these are 
 the most favourable circumstances which can 
 follow the second rejection of this Bill. I see 
 before me many Noble Lords, who pride them- 
 selves on the cordiality of their intercourse with 
 all around them, in the country, both rich and 
 poor whose presence there is generally welcomed 
 by the congratulations of their neighbours, of all 
 ranks will those Noble Lords receive with equal 
 complacency the greetings they will have to en- 
 counter after having destroyed the long cherished 
 hopes of their fellow countrymen ? No my 
 Lords, I fear the change between confidence and 
 distrust, affection and hatred, will be so great, 
 that the satisfaction of having preserved Nomina- 
 tion Boroughs for a time and for a time only 
 will but ill console them for the annoyances and 
 expressions of dislike and aversion which will be 
 heaped on them on all sides. I contend, there- 
 fore, that resistance must produce the very worst 
 consequences, tending to destroy that harmony
 
 and good-will among all classes of society, which 
 are so essential in every well-governed state and 
 especially in this country, where all should be 
 
 Not equal, yet free, 
 Equally free for orders and degrees 
 Jar not with Liberty, but well consist. 
 
 My Lords, it was. under this conviction, and 
 believing as I did, and still do, that the claims of 
 the people of this country were not to be trifled 
 or tampered with by any Ministers it was under 
 this persuasion, that I, for one, and I believe all 
 my colleagues, came to the consideration of this 
 Measure and were anxious to frame such a Bill, 
 as, by its large and comprehensive provisions, 
 might not only give general satisfaction, but at 
 the same time set this Question finally at rest. 
 Into a detailed examination of those provisions, 
 this, as I have already said, is not the fit oppor- 
 tunity for entering. They have, moreover, toge- 
 ther with the alterations which have taken place, 
 been so ably and fully detailed by my Noble 
 Relation, who moved the Second Reading of this 
 Bill, that I need not say more, than that its lead- 
 ing principles are, as in the former Bill the dis- 
 franchisement of all Nomination Boroughs the 
 purification of the lesser Boroughs the enfran- 
 chisement of the great and populous towns the
 
 24 
 
 emancipation of the middle classes and the dimi- 
 nution of the expense of elections. 
 
 There is, however, one portion of the details to 
 which a Noble Marquess (Londonderry) alluded 
 on a former night, with which I am personally 
 connected, and therefore your Lordships must 
 permit me shortly to refer to them. The Noble 
 Marquess was pleased to accuse me, for whom he 
 professed private respect and esteem, of having 
 been a party to a gross job. How the Noble 
 Lord can entertain any respect or esteem for a 
 person whom he supposes to have been guilty of 
 such improper conduct, I certainly am at a loss to 
 conceive. I can assure him, and your Lordships, 
 that I never could respect myself, if I felt for a 
 moment that I had been guilty of, or accessory to, 
 any such proceeding. My Lords, I will not 
 retaliate I will not make use of any such harsh 
 expressions, in return, towards the Noble Mar- 
 quess, with whom formerly I lived on terms of 
 personal friendship; but I must beg leave to tell 
 him, that when the provisions of this Bill are 
 closely and fairly investigated, it will be found 
 that the privileges which are extended to the 
 county of Durham, can be justified to their fullest 
 extent, on those principles of wealth and popula- 
 tion which have been taken as the tests for 
 enfranchisement in this Bill ; nay, more, I pledge
 
 25 
 
 myself to prove, that they do riot even border on 
 the limits within which other towns and counties 
 have derived the benefit of representation and 
 that if you were to strike them out, you would 
 also have to disfranchise many others now in- 
 cluded, but inferior to them in population and 
 wealth. I solemnly disclaim any wish or inten- 
 tion to procure for myself any personal advantage 
 or influence whatever. I should be ashamed of 
 myself if I had entertained any such desire and 
 if I had the attempt would have been futile, for 
 the constituency to be created is so numerous, 
 intelligent, and independent, as to be above all 
 influence, either of mine or any other person. 
 
 Here I shall take the opportunity of briefly 
 noticing the statement made the other night by 
 the Noble and Gallant Duke (Wellington), with 
 respect to Christchurch and Tavistock. My Lords, 
 the observations made by the Noble Duke, would 
 lead to the impression, that Tavistock had received 
 an unfair preference. Such, perhaps, was not the 
 object of the Noble Duke, when he made those 
 remarks ; but it undoubtedly was that of the 
 person from whom he received the statement. 
 That calculation, unexplained, would lead your 
 Lordships to imagine that the return of Popula- 
 tion, Assessed Taxes, and Houses, quoted by the 
 Noble Duke, related to the two Boroughs, at the 
 time when the question of their disfranchisement
 
 26 
 
 had to be determined. That is not the fact those 
 returns related to the enlarged boundaries made 
 subsequently by the Commissioners. At the time 
 of disfranchisement, Tavistock had 
 
 Population. Houses. Assessed Taxes. .10 Houses. 
 4,388 626 .1,124 15 9 269 
 
 Christen urch had 
 
 Population. Houses. Assessed Taxes. .10 Houses. 
 
 2,262 516 .733 12 3 
 
 191 
 
 The comparison, therefore, of the enlarged Borough 
 of Tavistock, with the enlarged Borough of Christ- 
 church, has nothing to do with the question of 
 disfranchisement, which could not have been 
 decided in any other way without violating every 
 principle of fairness and justice. 
 
 Before I conclude, my Lords, I must notice an 
 objection to this Bill, made by the Noble and 
 Learned Lord (Wynford), who preceded me this 
 night. He says, that the expense of contested 
 Elections will be greatly increased by this Bill, 
 because all who know any thing of the nature of 
 that expense, must be aware that it chiefly arises 
 from the charges made on account of Agents and 
 Poll Clerks ; and therefore, as the polling places are 
 greatly multiplied, a greater expenditure will be 
 proportionably required. My Lords, I differ with 
 the Noble and Learned Lord, entirely. I have
 
 27 
 
 had the honour and certainly a very ex- 
 pensive one to stand a severe contest for the 
 Representation of the County of Durham. It 
 cost me, as I once told your Lordships before, no 
 less a sum than .30,000, and I believe, a Noble 
 Friend behind me, a Noble Marquess (Cleveland), 
 could give your Lordships some further informa- 
 tion, as to the sums of money lavished at that 
 Election, it having cost him also, I fear, rather 
 more than the sum I have mentioned. I have, 
 therefore, had some experience on this point 
 and I can assure the Noble and Learned Lord 
 that the main and great expense arises in 
 bringing up Voters from a distance, and in 
 paying for their legal subsistence at the county 
 town, until they have polled. During the whole 
 time that the election lasted, the legal entertain- 
 ment of the voters cost me .1000 a day. I there- 
 fore must contend that, by appointing polling 
 places in different parts of the county, we shall 
 take away the necessity for incurring these heavy 
 charges for travelling and subsistence, and there- 
 fore materially, if not entirely, diminish the great 
 expenditure now required. My Lords, there are 
 many other topics to which the Noble and Learned 
 Lord has alluded, but which cannot, I repeat, be 
 properly debated except in the Committee. I must 
 therefore postpone any notice of them until that 
 period with this declaration merely that there
 
 28 
 
 are no persons more anxious than His Majesty's 
 Ministers that the provisions of the Bill should 
 undergo the severest scrutiny or more desirous 
 to remove any well-grounded objections which may 
 be fairly urged against them. 
 
 For all these reasons, My Lords, which I have 
 ventured to submit to your consideration, I implore 
 you to consent to the Second Reading of a Bill 
 the object of which is to give security to the 
 Throne contentment to the People and perma- 
 nence to all the best Institutions of the Country, 
 and shall now conclude, by saying, in the words of 
 that illustrious statesman, whose principles I vene- 
 rate, and whose example I have endeavoured to 
 follow, although at a humble distance, throughout 
 the whole course of my political life, I mean Mr. 
 Fox, " We risk our all upon the excellence of 
 " this Bill. We risk upon it whatever is most 
 " dear to us, whatever men most value the cha- 
 " racter of integrity, of honour, of present repu- 
 " tation and future fame these and whatever else 
 " is precious to us, we stake on the constitutional 
 " safety the enlarged policy the equity and 
 " wisdom of this measure." 
 
 F I N IS. 
 
 LONDON : 
 PRINTED BY T. BRETTEJLL, RUPERT STREET, HAYMARKET.
 
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