THE LIBRARY 
 
 OF 
 
 THE UNIVERSITY 
 OF CALIFORNIA 
 
 LOS ANGELES 
 
 GIFT OF 
 
 Mrs. George Gore
 
 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 AND 
 
 GENERAL CULTURE. 
 
 BY THE AUTHOR OF "FRIENDS IN COUNCIL." 
 
 BOSTON: 
 
 ROBERTS, BROTHERS. 
 1871. 
 
 [ALL RIGHT* RESERVED]
 
 PR 
 
 HT79 
 
 London, March, 1871. 
 MY DEAR RUSKIN, 
 
 I DEDICATE these " Conversations on War and 
 Culture " to you, feeling that there is no one who will 
 receive them with more kindliness, and endeavour with 
 more earnestness to make the best of them. 
 
 I sympathize with you very cordially in the great 
 effort you are making to draw attention to the wants 
 of the labouring classes. Whatever may be the measure 
 of your success in that difficult work, you, at any rate, 
 have set a great example in showing that a man, who 
 has an especial aptitude for teaching the most advanced 
 students in matters of high art, can, for the moment, 
 put aside his especial vocation, in order to make man- 
 kind address themselves to the far greater question 
 of how the poorer classes can be raised to independ- 
 ence of thought, comfort of living, and dignity of 
 behaviour. 
 
 I remain, 
 
 Yours affectionately, 
 THE AUTHOR. 
 
 J. Ruskin, Esq., LL.D. 
 
 922389
 
 CONVERSATIONS 
 
 ON 
 
 WAR AND GENERAL CULTURE. 
 
 CHAPTER I. 
 
 [THE conversations which I am about to report, 
 took place soon after the early victories of the 
 Germans over the French. I suppose it would 
 have been better if these conversations had been 
 confined to one subject as, doubtless, Mr. Mil- 
 verton had originally intended that they should 
 be. But conversation is a thing that no one of 
 the interlocutors can rule ; and it will proceed 
 in its own sinuous and eccentric way. The 
 intense interest which every one in England feels 
 in this war, makes it almost impossible for any 
 
 i
 
 2 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 conversation to go on without interruptions 
 arising from a reference to the awful scenes 
 which are taking place in a neighbouring 
 country. 
 
 As for me, I am but a mere reporter, and 
 cannot, of course, direct or restrain the conversa- 
 tion to any particular topic. I dare say that my 
 short-hand brethren, the reporters in the House 
 of Commons, would also, sometimes, like to be 
 able to guide and restrain the debate ; but in this 
 respect they are powerless in their sphere, as I 
 in mine. 
 
 I think, moreover, that it may interest many 
 of my readers to see how questions relating to 
 war were interwoven in these conversations with 
 questions relating to general culture. 
 
 It was at a country-house, and during the 
 recess, that those persons, who are called " Friends 
 in Council," met, and thus conversed.] 
 
 Mr. Milverton. I have a subject in hand, 
 which I have long wished to discuss with you. 
 It has reference to general culture, and especially 
 to the deficiency of information which prevails 
 among those whom we call the best-informed 
 classes.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 3 
 
 Sir John Ellesmere. Is there any burridge in 
 the garden, Sandy ? 
 
 Milverton. Now, that shows the want of in- 
 formation in certain persons. It is not btirridge, 
 but borage, derived from the Latin " borago." 
 
 Ellesmere. Never mind the spelling. Let 
 this wretched pedant have his way ; but do you, 
 Sandy, go and get the borage, and insist upon a 
 large bowl of claret-cup being made ; otherwise I, 
 for one, will not assist at any lecture upon culture, 
 and will be content with the paucity of information 
 which I possess. 
 
 I thank my stars that I am a humble per- 
 sonage. 
 
 Mr. Cranmer. Your stars, Ellesmere, must 
 be stars of a very moderate capacity, and very 
 ready to be thanked, if they sanction this appeal 
 to them respecting your humility. 
 
 Milverton. Mine is a very ungrateful task. 
 I want to show you all, how very ill-educated we 
 are ; and how very few of us can presume to call 
 ourselves men of culture in any liberal sense of 
 the word. 
 
 Ellesmere. Now he is going to oppress us 
 with his vast powers of memory. He will make 
 out that everybody is a savage, and only fit to be
 
 4 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 a cannibal, who does not know fifteen languages, 
 and five-and-twenty separate branches of science. 
 
 This is the kind of thing which Milverton's 
 prodigious memory enables him to say to you : 
 "It was seven years ago, when we were at the 
 end of that gravel walk, and were just going into 
 the greenhouse, that you mentioned to me that I 
 must be an idiot if I believed that, in our time, 
 we should ever have household suffrage. It was 
 on a Tuesday, if you recollect, and you were 
 going up to town early on Wednesday morning." 
 I do not like living with fellows that have such 
 a memory. The pleasant people to live with are 
 those that forget soon. What a memory women 
 have for injuries ! 
 
 Cranmer. I don't wonder, Ellesmere, you 
 wish to live with people of short memories. 
 Never mind : I forget nine-tenths of the out- 
 rageous things you have ever said against me. 
 
 Ellesmere. Thank you, Cranmer. I can 
 assure you I very soon forget your piercing 
 sarcasms. I say with Caesar, let me have men 
 about me that are fat, and can forget things. 
 The British public is a charming public to deal 
 with. Why ? Because it is fat, and can forget 
 things. Otherwise it would fare ill with certain
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 5 
 
 politicians whom I could name, and who always 
 rely upon the splendid forgetfulness of that 
 excellent public. I hate your lean, remember- 
 ative people. 
 
 By the way, I do not find that Milverton is so 
 prone to recollect those remarks I made to him 
 seven years ago, which have turned out to be 
 quite right. 
 
 Milverton. I suppose you will now allow me 
 to commence the consideration of the subject 
 which I wish so much to bring before you. It 
 would, perhaps, be advisable for me, in the first 
 instance, to arrange the subject of culture under 
 the following 
 
 Ellesmere. I do think, Milverton, you are the 
 oddest man in the United Kingdom of Great 
 Britain and Ireland. At this moment we are all 
 of us thinking, day and night, (at least, all of us 
 except you), about this dreadful war ; but your 
 stoical or epicurean mind suddenly betakes itself 
 to the serene contemplation of culture. I believe 
 you do it for the sake of paradox. 
 
 Milverton. What should you say, then, if I 
 were to tell you that the general subject of culture 
 has been revived in my mind by the consideration 
 of this war ?
 
 6 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 What is the real cause of the late defeats of 
 the French ? " Ignorance, my dear madam," 
 as Dr. Johnson once said, " simple ignorance," 
 ignorance of topography ; ignorance of lan- 
 guage ; ignorance of what was going on in other 
 nations ; ignorance of their own resources. 
 
 I do not wonder that Charles V., as a states- 
 man and a soldier, thought so highly of a know- 
 ledge of languages, when he said, " The man who 
 knows two languages is twice a man." A sort of 
 sublime conceit seems to overcome the French in 
 their study of foreign languages, when they do 
 study them. They can't spell a foreign name 
 rightly; they can't make a quotation accurately. 
 I took up yesterday a work of one of their 
 greatest scholars. He must needs quote Shake- 
 speare after this fashion : " To be, or no to be ; " 
 and as for proper names, the only two names that 
 I have observed them always to spell accurately 
 are " London " and " Palmerston." How true 
 that copy-book sentence is, that " Conceit is the 
 mother of Ignorance." There is nothing so 
 dangerous as your supposing you know a thing 
 when you do not know it. This kind of conceit 
 has been the ruin of theologians, metaphysicians, 
 geographers
 
 AND GENERAL CULTIRE. ^ 
 
 Ellesmere. Historians 
 
 Milverton. and statesmen. In this par- 
 ticular case I should rather like to turn the word 
 culture into information. It is the want of infor- 
 mation, proceeding, however, very largely from 
 a want of culture, which is the ruin of States. 
 
 War is a thing which of necessity occupies 
 I may say absorbs our attention while it is going 
 on ; but observe in history how uninteresting a 
 thing it is for the most part. One war is very 
 like another. Some years hence, if this con- 
 versation were to be reported, a reader would 
 hardly know for a time of which war we were 
 talking. To make any use of our study of any 
 particular war, our object should be to get behind 
 or beyond the common topics, and to see what 
 are the true causes of success or failure. 
 
 Sir Arthur Godolphin. And for that pur- 
 pose, I agree with Milverton, we must come back 
 to culture. 
 
 Milverton. Yes ; can you doubt, for instance, 
 what will be the groundwork of failure on our 
 part, if we ever do fail in war ? Will it not be 
 our defect in organizing that horrid want of 
 arrangement and of forethought which is to be 
 seen throughout our civil life ? For instance,
 
 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 there is a certain great railway station, not very 
 far from London. I see all our Crimean blunders 
 at that station. I contemplate it with awe, con- 
 sidering the immense stupidity of which mankind 
 British mankind is capable. Everything is 
 done that should be omitted, and everything is 
 omitted that should be done. Do you suppose 
 that the same want of arrangement, which is 
 visible at that station, and in many others like 
 it, will not be displayed in our arrangements for 
 war ? You take such a mean view, Ellesmere, 
 of the word culture. I do not mean exclusively 
 the culture that is to be attained from books. I 
 have shown elsewhere, for example, that organiza- 
 tion is a thing that can be taught, that people 
 can be brought up to be good organizers. Why, 
 even the defects of temperament can in a great 
 degree be cured by culture ! It is said, that in 
 this war, their arms of precision have not been 
 made the most use of by the French, on account 
 of their excitability of temperament, and their 
 indulgence in aimless rapidity of firing. 
 
 Cranmer. I was much struck by what you 
 said, Milverton, as regards the mischief which 
 has been caused to the French by their ignorance 
 of foreign languages.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 9 
 
 Ellesmere. Yes; I dare say that a knowledge 
 of those dreadful irregular verbs in the German 
 would have made a difference in the war. 
 
 Milverton. I mean something much wider 
 and deeper than that peculiar form of ignorance. 
 What a disadvantage that nation is under of 
 which other nations know much, while it knows 
 but little of other nations. The Greeks were 
 sure to be beaten ultimately by the barbarians, 
 as they called them, because they knew so little 
 of those barbarians. 
 
 Sir ArtJmr. It is a similar disadvantage 
 that we authors, Milverton, labour under in 
 society. Other people know so much about us 
 about our most cherished opinions while we 
 know so little about them. 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. If Shakespeare had travelled, 
 would he have been a greater man ? 
 
 Mr. Mauleverer. I think very little of travel- 
 ling. A fool longs to carry his folly to the utter- 
 most ends of the earth. He does carry it thither, 
 and he brings it all back with him. 
 
 Milverton. I am not going to declare that 
 any particular form of culture is the only form, 
 or the chief form. Keeping our discourse for the 
 moment upon culture as regards war, let me
 
 io CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 point out to you what a signal proof of culture 
 is to be seen in the wonderful kindness shown 
 to the wounded. What does this indicate ? It 
 shows that Christian culture, though it has not 
 succeeded in eradicating war, has introduced a 
 spirit of humanity hitherto unknown. We now 
 feel something of what is the worth of any 
 individual man, looked at in every possible way, 
 as a son, a husband, a father, a cultivator. 
 
 Sir Arthur. A possible inventor. 
 
 Milverton. The feebleness of the world 
 proceeds from its want of real men. And even 
 the least worthy of men, with the exception of 
 confirmed thieves, hardly ever pass through the 
 world without having done some one good stroke 
 of work for it. 
 
 Mauleverer. I am sorry to be obliged so 
 often to come in and check Milverton's en- 
 thusiasm, when he rushes into some absurd praise 
 of mankind. He admits that his " Christian 
 culture " has not " eradicated war ; " but I really 
 do think it might have done something more than 
 it has done to prevent war. How we smile with 
 contempt at the ancient mode of deciding disputes 
 by " wager of battle " between one man and 
 another. Is this mode of settling disputes made
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. u 
 
 more sensible by many men being engaged in 
 it ? Has arbitration made any advance as a 
 means of reconciling nations ? I pause for a 
 reply. 
 
 Ellesmere. Then you are full of hope for 
 mankind, and are astonished that they do not 
 do better. I thought you held with Byron, that 
 man has ever been a wretched creature, and ever 
 will be. Besides, you know, people must be 
 excited, and nothing is more exciting than war. 
 
 Milverton. Don't talk in that heartless way, 
 Ellesmere. It might have been true in former 
 days. I really don't know what a baron in olden 
 times had to amuse him but wars and forays. 
 But now there is so much to interest and occupy 
 any man, from kings downwards things which 
 we did not appreciate before. Look at the 
 savagery of great towns. Would it not be 
 enough for the fame of any great minister or 
 potent monarch, if it could be said of him, that he 
 found his capital, or any of his great towns, tree- 
 less, colourless, bathless, mudful, smoke-stained, 
 its amusements coarse, the dress of its inhabitants 
 hideous, its food adulterated, its drink pernicious, 
 its crime organized, its infectious diseases for the 
 
 o 
 
 most part unguarded against, its open spaces
 
 12 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 gradually being encroached upon ; and that he 
 left it a bright, beautiful, well-behaved, healthy 
 city, with honest food to eat, and graceful amuse- 
 ments to amuse it ? 
 
 Ellesmere. And large spaces for the children 
 and the dogs to play in. 
 
 Milverton. This is harder work, too ; requir- 
 ing much more intellect and energy than going 
 to war. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I want to revert to our dis- 
 cussion of the present war. Let us keep to that 
 for the moment. 
 
 Milverton. If so, there is a remark which I 
 want to make about it. 
 
 Our newspapers have received great praise, 
 and justly so, for the immense pains they have 
 taken to keep us well informed about the progress 
 of the war. 
 
 Ellesmere. That is their business ; it pays. 
 
 Cranmer. I believe Ellesmere dislikes to hear 
 anybody praised. 
 
 Milverton. But I was going to say that they 
 deserve more praise, and Ellesmere will not 
 grudge it to them, for the pains they have taken 
 to bring out clearly the horrors and miseries 
 of war.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 13 
 
 Ellesmere. I believe Milverton has written 
 several of those articles himself. 
 
 Milverton. No, I have not. I have a sort 
 of despair of writing anything upon the subject ; 
 and if it were not a paradox to say so, I think 
 I feel these horrors and miseries too acutely to 
 write about them well. 
 
 Sir Arthur. And then, too, one feels that 
 in addressing the British people, one is addressing 
 that people which requires the least lecturing 
 upon the subject. One feels that they might 
 reply to one by saying, " We know all that ; it 
 is no news to us : but what can we do ? " 
 
 Milverton. It is a curious thing ; but, far and 
 away, the best writers who have written books on 
 this subject, are Frenchmen. 
 
 I will tell you what would be a famous thing 
 for the world ; and that would be, to institute a 
 course of reading for the young of foreign 
 countries on this subject. How I should like 
 to be a Civil Service Examiner in Prussia, 
 France, or Russia, in order to institute such a 
 course. 
 
 Cranmer. What would be the nature of it ? 
 
 Milverton. There would be very instructive 
 bits which I should select from the old chroniclers,
 
 H CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 from Gibbon, and from some of the histories of 
 Eastern wars, which were singularly cruel wars. 
 Then I should have, as a text-book, one of the 
 best accounts of Napoleon's Russian Campaign. 
 There are admirable books on that campaign. 
 Then I should insist upon the Erckmann- 
 Chatrian novels as a subject of examination. 
 And, lastly, for the higher classes, I should insist 
 upon Bastiat's great work forming the basis of 
 their anti-warlike studies. These are the French 
 authors I allude to. 
 
 Cranmer. I have read other works of Bastiat ; 
 but not the one which you speak of. 
 
 Milverton. It is excellent. One of the great 
 maxims which I hold to in life, is, that the indirect 
 results of any evil are nearly sure to be the most 
 formidable results. This is what Bastiat shows 
 as regards war, and as regards standing armies 
 and large armaments. The measure of civiliza- 
 tion in a people, is to be found in its just appre- 
 ciation of the wrongfulness of war. I do not 
 believe that a more courageous body of men 
 exists in the world than our fellow-country- 
 men, or any people who would more delight 
 in the severest physical contests. I cannot 
 imagine a people who would be more fervid
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 15 
 
 when they had undertaken a just war. But it 
 must be just, or they must believe it to Jbe just ; 
 or, at any rate, they must hold it to be absolutely 
 necessary ; otherwise their conscientiousness would 
 blunt their swords. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I think you are right, Milverton. 
 What I complain of in the French, especially in 
 most of their great writers and speakers on this 
 subject, is, the low view, comparatively speaking, 
 they take of it. 
 
 Ellesmere. I think you are wrong, Sir 
 Arthur. What you perceive and dislike 'in 
 them, if I read them rightly, is, something which 
 pervades their whole course of thought, or, I 
 should rather say, of expression. If it were 
 not an arrogant thing to say, these great writers 
 and speakers ought to have a man like me at 
 their elbow. You have no idea of the use that 
 I have been to Milverton. These Frenchmen 
 are in the habit of using vague generalities of 
 expression which do fatal mischief. They make 
 immense deductions from scanty premises ; and, 
 in short, a good deal of their writing and speaking 
 is as the notes of the big-drum. For instance, 
 after a man has enumerated every kind of force 
 which could be brought to bear upon the present
 
 16 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 emergency, there will come a sentence, perhaps 
 occupying a paragraph, " Behind us all is France." 
 
 If you come to analyze this kind of thing, you 
 find it contains nothing serviceable. 
 
 Cranmer. Don't you mean, Ellesmere, bom- 
 bast and braggadocio ? 
 
 Ellesmere. No ; I do not. 
 
 Milverton. No ; he does not, Cranmer. I 
 have often longed to describe the kind of thing 
 that Ellesmere has been endeavouring to put 
 before us. It would require an elaborate essay to 
 do so. I have perceived something kindred to 
 what Ellesmere means in their greatest writings. 
 They begin with a theory ; facts must be made 
 to conform to it. They do not appear to me to 
 have a sufficient appreciation of the odd and 
 strange motives which actuate mankind. When 
 you look into any long course of great trans- 
 actions, you find scores of strange motives 
 actuating the persons who were concerned in 
 these transactions. I have a theory which a 
 little explains this error of theirs, and it is, that 
 every Frenchman is more like every other 
 Frenchman, than every Englishman is like every 
 other Englishman. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Hence, what is called a great
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 17 
 
 idea, when it once gets into the heads of the French, 
 is more pestilent than it is elsewhere, as it is more 
 supremely prevalent. All the great evils in the 
 world have proceeded from what are called "great 
 ideas " getting into the heads of many men. In 
 fact, as some one has well said, "thinking in 
 mobs " is the most dangerous thing in the world, 
 as it is sure to lead to acting in mobs. 
 
 Milverton. Your maxim, Sir Arthur, must 
 really be taken with much reservation. All the 
 great good in the world has proceeded from great 
 ideas getting hold of vast numbers of beings 
 Christianity for instance. 
 
 As we are all laying down maxims at present, 
 I shall venture to propound one of my own, 
 namely, that one of the greatest arts in life, for 
 nations as for individuals, is to know how to 
 make exceptions, and this by reason of the intense 
 laziness of mankind. 
 
 Ellesmere. And their natural objection to 
 the painful process of having to think out any- 
 thing thoroughly. 
 
 Milverton. Yes ; the decadence of nations 
 may be traced to this. I always call it Byzan- 
 tine. Whenever I see in the present time, or 
 when, reading of past times, I find a nation 
 
 2
 
 1 8 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 rushing into one course of thought, taking up 
 rules which they fondly imagine to be principles, 
 I always say to myself, they are becoming Byzan- 
 tine, and we shall soon see symptoms of decay. 
 You may notice instances of this in the conduct 
 of a dynasty, or of a ministry, as well as in that 
 of private individuals. They come into power 
 with a set of ideas implying a course of conduct ; 
 and they do not know when to make the excep- 
 tions. 
 
 Ellesmere. Exceptivity (I like to coin a new 
 word : it annoys the precise Milverton, and per- 
 plexes Cranmer), exceptivity requires so much 
 moral courage, and especially, so much fearless- 
 ness as regards the charge, which all men dread 
 more or less, of inconsistency. 
 
 Milverton. And the worst of it is, that in the 
 direction of public affairs it is so difficult and so 
 dangerous to be inconsistent on the sly. Apropos 
 of this, I always think of that story which the 
 poet Coleridge used to tell so admirably, of his 
 being on the box of a stage-coach with a coach- 
 man, who lectur-ed him severely upon the impro- 
 priety of throwing halfpence to the beggars who 
 followed the coach. Presently a little ragged boy 
 followed the coach perseveringly for a long way.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 19 
 
 Coleridge, being afraid of another lecture from the 
 coachman, buttoned up his pockets. Soon, how- 
 ever, he felt some very queer jerks, which seemed 
 to proceed from movements of the coachman ; 
 and, watching attentively, Coleridge found that 
 the coachman was with difficulty getting half- 
 pence out of his own pocket (you know what a be- 
 wrapped and involved creature a stage-coachman 
 was in those days), and throwing them furtively 
 to the ragged, shoeless child. 
 
 You see, the coachman probably knew when 
 to make the exception, and had the courage to 
 make it, though furtively. 
 
 Oh ! how the moral of that small anecdote 
 might be applied to more potent people than 
 coachmen, to those who drive the great state 
 carriage. You find out a man of remarkable 
 ability; you would like to employ him in the 
 service of the State. But he is over-age ; or he 
 does not know Greek ; or he has some defect or 
 other which is hit by one of your trumpery rules ; 
 and, instead of breaking through your rule, you 
 bless your rule, and magnify it, and say to your- 
 selves, "How good we are to abide by our rules, 
 and not to do what we wish to do, and what we 
 know it would be best to do ! " Have the Medes
 
 20 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 and Persians those men of such strictness that 
 they have become proverbial for their abiding 
 by laws and rules lasted as great nations ? 
 
 Ellesmere. Hurrah for " the Exceptional ! " 
 It will take its place, in Sir Arthur's vocabulary, 
 side by side with the Good, and the True, and 
 the Beautiful. 
 
 Milverton. Do let me give you one more 
 instance of what I mean. I assure you it is a 
 frequent instance. I do not know that anything 
 has been more prejudicial to the commercial 
 interests of the world, especially to the railway 
 interest, than the system of " qualifications." I 
 always protested against it from my earliest 
 years ; and I see no reason to change my opinion. 
 What do you do ? You lay down a rule that a 
 man shall not be elected as a governor or director, 
 unless he possesses a certain property qualification, 
 and, moreover, which is still worse, unless he has 
 possessed that qualification for a certain time. By 
 this rule you limit your choice enormously. What 
 you want is a man a governing man ; a man who 
 will do your work well for you from the love of 
 good government, as regards anything which he 
 takes in hand. You will neither secure him, nor 
 stimulate him to any great extent, by insisting
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 21 
 
 on his having a large pecuniary interest in its 
 success. All the best men will work well, if 
 they will work at all, without that. It was the poor 
 man in the Scriptures whose wisdom saved the 
 city ; and probably no pecuniary interest that 
 you could have given him, would have made him 
 do more or less than he did if anything, less. 
 
 Sir Arthur. This is all very true, I dare- 
 say, Milverton. Doubtless we and the French, 
 and every other people that I have ever known 
 anything about, have not known how and when 
 to admit the Exceptional. You see, I do not 
 mind Ellesmere's somewhat faded sneer, and 
 am quite ready to join the Exceptional with the. 
 Beautiful and the True. But my mind is at 
 present full only on the war ; and I am going 
 to say something which will delight the malice 
 that Mauleverer bears against mankind or 
 rather pretends to bear, when he is with us. 
 
 There is one thing, I say, which this war has 
 fearfully illustrated. We had all known some- 
 thing about this thing before, at any rate, those 
 of us who had read Rochefoucault, and the other 
 writers who write cynically. 
 
 Ellesmere. I put in an objection at once. 
 " Cynically," my dear ladies, is a word derived
 
 22 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 from the Greek for dog, and may be rendered 
 dogically. Now what a shame it is to put upon 
 dogs the meanest aspects of human nature. But 
 what were you going to say, Sir Arthur ? 
 
 Sir Arthur. I was going to say that the 
 comments upon this war have afforded the most 
 trenchant exemplification that has been witnessed 
 in my time, of the base and unjust condemnation 
 which mostly follows failure. 
 
 Ellesmere. I must interrupt again. If there 
 is anything which dogs do not delight to do, it is 
 to condemn failure. They never desert their 
 unfortunate master because he is unfortunate. 
 You will say, in your foolish, critical fashion, 
 that they do not understand failure. You little 
 know dogs. If they did read the newspapers, 
 it would make no difference to them. They 
 would always be true to the master who had 
 fed them. 
 
 Milverton. You all know that I think little 
 of future fame, and as little of ill-fame as of good 
 fame. I believe that if we are to recognise one 
 another in a future life, increased knowledge will 
 develop a sorrow and a pity that cannot even be 
 imagined now ; and that no spirit of the blest will 
 find it in his heart to condemn the most erring
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 23 
 
 of his brethren. But, with all this belief in the 
 toleration and the sympathy that will hereafter 
 be produced by possessing an ampler knowledge 
 of the conditions of humanity, one must confess 
 that one should not like to be pointed out in a 
 future world as the creature who, when on earth, 
 was always for the strongest. If there is anything 
 especially and undoubtedly unchristian, it is the 
 worship of worldly success. This is Anti-Christ. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Dante has drawn many fearful 
 pictures of what are supposed to be the extremes 
 of human wickedness, many of them representing 
 sins which would fall off from a disembodied 
 creature ; but I can faintly imagine what he 
 would have said of the wretch who was always 
 for the strongest ; how he would have pictured 
 him as inevitably a denizen of the nethermost 
 hell of all a hell full of the drainage of all that 
 is execrable from all the other abodes of hell. 
 
 Milverton. I almost doubt if there is any 
 such man. There are men who talk as if they 
 were always for the strongest, but in their hearts 
 they sympathise with the weakest. Nevertheless 
 I can image something of a public character, 
 something which should combine the occasional 
 basenesses of many men something commercial,
 
 24 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 for instance which should always be for the 
 strongest. 
 
 Ellesmere. Well, there is one comfort, nobody 
 can say this of me. 
 
 Cranmer. No, Sir John : your love of oppo- 
 sition prevents your being a victim to this vice. 
 The crowing of the victorious party will always 
 command a counter-crow from Sir John Elles- 
 mere. 
 
 Ellesmere. Well said, Cranmer ; and put epi- 
 grammatically. I don't care if it be a counter- 
 vice that prevents in me this greatest of all vices. 
 At any rate, you believe that I am always inclined 
 to crow out for, I would rather say to bark up for, 
 the beaten party. And so I am. There will 
 always be enough of hired shouting for the 
 conquerors. 
 
 Milverton. Yes : and one can appeal to 
 posterity. Do you remember what I quoted to 
 you some time ago from my favourite, Metas- 
 tasio ? It is where Themistocles says, " that 
 future ages will envy him, not so much for his 
 triumphs, as for his misfortunes," one of the 
 truest sayings, I think, that have ever been said. 
 How dull, too, is the career of an unbroken 
 fortune !
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 25 
 
 I must, however, recall to you the very words 
 of Metastasio ; 
 
 Invidieranno 
 Forse 1'eta future, 
 Piu che i trionfi miei, le mie sventure. 
 
 Ellcsmere. I will give you another noble 
 saying, the nobility of which has not been effaced 
 by its being somewhat hackneyed : 
 
 Victrix causa Deis placuit, sed victa Catoni. 
 
 You look up, Blanche, for a translation of the 
 Latin. I can give it you. 
 
 The Play was successful : nine newspaper 
 critics went home with the author to supper, 
 and said he was the finest fellow in the world. 
 The Play was damned : the only person who 
 went home with the author was Sir John 
 Ellesmere, and Sir John said, that it was more 
 to the author's credit that the Play had been 
 damned, than it would have been had the Play 
 been saved. Moreover, Sir John added, that it 
 all depends upon the audience ; and hisses from 
 some people are a form of praise more welcome 
 than clapping of hands from others. 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. What a wonderful language
 
 26 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Latin must be ; so few words in it require so 
 many in English to render them. 
 
 Ellesmere. The translation, my dear, was 
 large and liberal, but not loose. There are, 
 however, as the Latin passage intimates, very 
 few Ellesmeres in the world. Alas for it ! 
 Hence the value of the Proverb, " Nothing fails 
 like failure" a more significant Proverb, perhaps, 
 than, " Nothing succeeds like success." 
 
 Cranmer. I wish you clever people would 
 tell us more what you think about this particular 
 war, instead of dwelling on this particular form 
 of human baseness. 
 
 Ellesmere. Yes ; both Cranmer and I were 
 aware that failure in. the actor educed baseness 
 in the bystander. Even the philanthropic Maul- 
 everer will own that. But tell us what you 
 think about the causes and the consequences of 
 the war. 
 
 Milverton. With respect to the real causes 
 of the war, one cannot help having much sympathy 
 with both sides, and feeling that if we had been 
 in the position of either side, we might have acted 
 much as they have done. The unification of 
 our nation is an idea which, if we had been in 
 a similar position to that of the German people,
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 27 
 
 would have been a most stirring idea with us, and 
 would have induced us to do many good things. 
 
 Sir Arthiir. And many bad things. 
 
 Ellesmere. Yes ; Unifications, to use Mllver- 
 ton's fine word, are seldom made with rose-water. 
 
 Sir Arthiir. Nothing is more unscrupulous, 
 or more cruel, than an idea or rather, than the 
 men who once become possessed by an idea. 
 
 Milverton. The first Napoleon hated Ideo- 
 logists, as he called them ; and was himself a 
 signal victim to Ideology. 
 
 But, to proceed to the motive which actuated 
 the other side. No doubt it was a desire to 
 maintain a military supremacy. Put it as our 
 own case. Don't you think we should be very 
 much inclined to go to war, on any pretext^ if 
 our naval supremacy were threatened ? Of all 
 things, the thing I like best, is, to be just if one 
 can, and not only to be just in our dealings, but 
 in our imaginations. 
 
 But what I want to talk to you about, is, not 
 the causes, but the consequences, of the war. 
 Though fully sympathising with the motives that 
 actuate the Prussians, I cannot but view with 
 intense alarm the indirect consequences of their 
 victories. I fear that all European nations, and
 
 28 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 perhaps the Americans too, will imitate the 
 Prussian military system. Now, that I look 
 upon as decidedly a retrograde movement for 
 the world. 
 
 Cranmer. Wait a minute, Milverton. Will 
 not the adoption of this system diminish standing 
 armies ? 
 
 Milverton. I do not see why it should. I 
 believe we shall have both evils the evil of large 
 standing armies, and the immense evil, as it seems 
 to me, of any portion of the best part of a 
 civilian's life being obliged to be devoted to 
 military training. Of course I know what is to 
 be said on the other side ; but it seems to me 
 a retrograde movement to do away with the 
 division of labour, which the Prussian military 
 system tends to abrogate. 
 
 You see, I am one of those persons who 
 think that there is a great deal to be done in the 
 world, and not one man too many to do it ; and, 
 moreover, that to attain excellence (considering 
 the shortness of life), a man's whole time must 
 be given to the subjects in which he is disposed 
 to excel. 
 
 The great strides that have been made in 
 civilization, have been made in the brief intervals
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 29 
 
 of peace which the world has enjoyed. Now, 
 I do not look upon this as having been caused 
 solely, or chiefly, by the material comfort which 
 belongs to a state of peace ; but from the time 
 and the thought that have been devoted by 
 individual men to the highest and noblest arts 
 of peace. Come, now ; I will bring home to you 
 what I mean, by taking particular instances. 
 Would you like to have had some of the best 
 years of Faraday's life directed to military 
 training ? Or of Wheatstone's, or Sir James 
 Simpson's, or Dickens's, or Thackeray's, or 
 scores more, whom I could mention ? 
 
 Elksmere. I could drag on existence if all 
 the eminent men who ever lived had done a little 
 less than they have done. 
 
 'Milverton. Yes ; but, perhaps, they would 
 have done nothing at all, if you had diverted 
 their minds, at a critical period of their lives, from 
 those pursuits which were especially suited to 
 those minds. However, on reflection, I think 
 that it was, perhaps, weak in me to take these 
 particular instances. Do you know, Ellesmere, 
 that agriculture is a thing requiring the whole 
 devotion of a man's mind ? You innocently 
 suppose, I dare say, that you could get up agri-
 
 30 CONVERSATIONS ON IV AR 
 
 culture ; and so you could, as far as enabling you 
 to hold a brief in some case concerning it ; but, 
 I venture to say, that you have not an idea of 
 the close and unremitting observation of nature, 
 which is needful for practical success in agriculture. 
 You would be surprised to find how much know- 
 ledge is possessed by farmers and agricultural 
 labourers knowledge of a kind not to be taught 
 by books, and very much resembling that know- 
 ledge which doctors and surgeons acquire by 
 immense experience, and which they cannot im- 
 part to you. 
 
 Cranmer. I have no doubt this is very true. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Tres-bien, as they say in the 
 French Chambers. 
 
 Milverton. To men like you I need hardly 
 take the pains of working my case out further. 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. Work it out for us poor 
 women, Leonard. 
 
 Milverton. I will, my dear. I have studied 
 chemistry. I know pretty well what books can 
 tell me about it ; and I know enough to know 
 that I could never be a great chemist. I see that 
 it takes years to attain that delicate appreciation 
 of minute differences, that intentness of eye, that 
 severity of observation and of thought, which
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 31 
 
 would enable one to do anything in this great 
 science. Another valuable illustration suddenly 
 occurs to me. You think, I dare say, that it is 
 an easy thing to look through a microscope, and 
 to appreciate what you see by its aid ; but I 
 tell you that it takes a lifetime, with very peculiar 
 natural advantages into the bargain, to become 
 a good microscopic observer. In fact, you might 
 almost reckon upon your fingers all the great 
 microscopic observers that have existed since the 
 discovery of the microscope. 
 
 As regards my own craft, do you suppose that 
 the art of expressing one's ideas tolerably, comes 
 by nature, and is not, for the most part, attained 
 by great and constant cultivation ? 
 
 Again : is there any great artist, any great 
 statesman, who will tell you that he should have 
 been the better artist, or the better statesman, for 
 having given some of the best years of his life to 
 military training ? 
 
 Ellesmere. As to artists, I do not know ; 
 but as to statesmen, it appears to me that any 
 extra knowledge that they might have gained, 
 would have been very useful to them ; and that 
 their minds are not so crowded up with knowledge 
 as not to be able to store away a little more.
 
 32 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Milverton. This is only one of your reckless 
 sneers, Ellesmere. All the great statesmen I 
 have ever known, have been very laborious men 
 in their own craft, and have found quite enough 
 to do in endeavouring to master that. They read 
 through those Blue Books which I am afraid 
 most of you ordinary members of Parliament only 
 read with much skipping, if you read them at 
 all ; and then, not more than one in five, I believe, 
 of these excellent works do you reserve for your 
 especial reading. 
 
 Ellesmere. One in three hundred ! 
 
 Milverton. Besides, look what a training in 
 the way of previous acquisition it requires, to be 
 a statesman. The history, the political economy, 
 the knowledge of the resources of his own country 
 and of other countries, he ought to have mastered. 
 The man who has to govern India, as our Secretary 
 of State for India, had better not have given any 
 of the best portion of his years to military training. 
 
 Ellesmere. I suppose you would have us 
 believe, Milverton, that Cranmer had better have 
 been reading his Adam Smith, which of course 
 he knows by heart, than practising the goose-step, 
 which feat, by the way, he never would have 
 accomplished, and which would not have aided
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 33 
 
 him in acquiring that supreme meanness by 
 which he ever distinguished himself when he was 
 Secretary of the Treasury. I know I never 
 could get him to do anything for my constituents 
 that cost more than three shillings and sixpence. 
 
 Milverton. Ah ! there you touch me nearly. 
 If statesmen had studied more closely the re- 
 sources of states and the means of developing 
 them, if they had thoroughly appreciated the 
 likeness and the difference, especially the difference, 
 that there is between the fortunes of a state and 
 of an individual, they would not be guilty of that 
 meanness, which, I must own, may sometimes 
 be justly imputed to them in the present day. 
 It is the want of culture, not the excess of it in 
 one direction, that has produced this dangerous 
 disposition which they delight to manifest. 
 
 Sir Arthur. You think with me, Milverton, 
 then, that it is dangerous ? 
 
 Milverton. I do. You may think me 
 pedantic in referring so much to History as I 
 do ; but I have ever observed that the decadence 
 of a nation has been preluded by a fit of un- 
 reasonable economy. 
 
 Cranmer. And by a fit of unreasonable 
 expense. 
 
 3
 
 34 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Ellesmere. Very good, Cranmer, very good 
 indeed, according to my thinking. 
 
 Milverton. I also am willing to say " very 
 good." The two things are not incompatible. 
 The pendulum may first swing too much to 
 one side, and then too much to the other. All I 
 maintain is, that there is as much error in the un- 
 reasonable inclination to one side as to the other. 
 
 What we gain from the study of history is a 
 few great ideas, or rather a few great perceptions. 
 (I mean what the French call aperpus.) That 
 man is not a wise man who expects that history 
 will closely repeat itself, as is sometimes said ; 
 but there are certain great principles 
 
 Ellesmere. How he changes his word ! First 
 it is " ideas," then " perceptions ; " then " prin- 
 ciples." 
 
 Milverton. Never mind the word : you 
 know what I mean. Well, one of these principles 
 is, that there must be continuous development in 
 a nation. Otherwise it stagnates : otherwise 
 there may be a certain half -dead, half- alive 
 prosperity about it : but it ceases to be a great 
 nation. I contend that meanness on the part of 
 the governors checks development on the part 
 of the governed. New thoughts, new hopes, new
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE, 35 
 
 aspirations arise amongst the people. These 
 must be favoured; or the nation stands still. 
 
 Sir Arthur. And such things cannot be 
 favoured when you have the governing power 
 looking upon the nation as if it were an indi- 
 vidual tax-payer. I have heard statesmen say, 
 " I can't consent to this or to that expense. I feel 
 for the individual tax-payer ; I throw myself into 
 his position." Now there comes in that notion 
 which Mr. Milverton put forward a little time 
 ago, namely, that a statesman should learn what 
 is the difference between the government of an 
 individual's estate and the government of the 
 estate of the nation. 
 
 Ellesmere. Give us an instance, Sir Arthur ? 
 I am one of those stupid fellows who never can 
 appreciate abstract propositions. Hurrah for the 
 concrete! is what I am always saying to myself 
 and other people. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I cannot prove that any indi- 
 vidual tax-payer, whom you may take at random, 
 is benefited by technical education being favoured 
 by the Government. Very likely his son, or 
 his grandson may be. But one thing I am 
 certain of; and that is, that the whole nation is 
 benefited by an improvement in technical educa-
 
 36 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 tion, which improvement could not be made 
 without Government furtherance. The whole 
 nation will be made richer by this furtherance. 
 If our power of designing, if our chemical know- 
 ledge, if our aptitude for wedding Art to choiceness 
 of material, is not developed, we infallibly fall 
 behind other nations ; and your friend, Cranmer, 
 the individual tax-payer, will in some way or 
 other suffer for that. 
 
 Milverton. I think it will puzzle you to 
 find a good answer to what Sir Arthur has just 
 said ; but I shall carry his views much further, 
 and into humbler forms of detail. If ever this 
 nation is ruined, it will be by a too sedulous 
 attention having been paid to the expenditure 
 of those three-and-sixpences you spoke of, Elles- 
 mere. A great nation's affairs should be con- 
 ducted with immense promptitude, and with a 
 considerable indifference to minute items of 
 expenditure, especially when that expenditure is 
 expended within the country. A man in power, 
 whose whole thoughts should be given to greater 
 things, should not have a moment's hesitation, 
 on the score of expense, as to whether he should 
 send a messenger hither or thither, or whether 
 he should employ an extra clerk, &c., &c. All
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 37 
 
 these expenses are vanishing quantities, when 
 considered with reference to the work which he 
 has to do. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I have held high office, as you 
 know ; and my experience thoroughly tallies with 
 Milverton's, who has also had great experience. 
 When I was last in office I was pulled up for 
 an expenditure unauthorized, as they told me, of 
 3/. i$s. an expenditure about which there could 
 not be the faintest shadow of a doubt of its 
 absolute necessity. It really sickened me of 
 office that I should have, a year and a half 
 after the transaction had taken place, and when 
 I had accomplished what I intended to accom- 
 plish, to fight a battle for this trumpery ex- 
 penditure. 
 
 It was not always so. I recollect, many years 
 ago, sanctioning a considerable expense without 
 any legal authority, which I believe indeed, I 
 am certain saved the country a great number 
 of lives. Instead of being reproved, I was highly 
 praised ; but such, I fear, would not be the 
 case now. 
 
 Milverton. No : of course it wouldn't. I will 
 tell you something, Sir Arthur, which, with the 
 best intentions, has produced the greatest possible
 
 38 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 mischief. It is the recent legislation under which 
 the Audit Office acts. 
 
 Now nothing is more reasonable than the 
 establishment of such an office ; nothing, in 
 practice, can be more injudicious than its being 
 encouraged indeed, almost compelled to be 
 a vexatious office. In the first place, though 
 this is a trifling matter in my eyes, comparatively 
 speaking, it has produced great additional expense ; 
 This is No. i of the evils. 
 
 No. 2, which is far more important, is, that 
 it occupies the time, and irritates the minds, of 
 those official persons whose minds ought to be 
 occupied in a very different way. One of the 
 high permanent officers of State tells me that, 
 in the midst of the most urgent business, whether 
 writing difficult letters or conducting difficult 
 interviews, he is constantly interrupted by his 
 signature being demanded for the expenditure 
 of is. 6d. 
 
 But I am forgetting No. 3, the most im- 
 portant of all. This system of vexatious audit 
 prevents the governing man from having the 
 courage to do that which he would otherwise 
 undertake, and which, perhaps, is the most im- 
 portant part of his functions. It prevents his
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE, 39 
 
 undertaking those things which are eminently 
 needful for the public service, but which it is 
 not his bounden duty to undertake, and which, 
 unless he is a very brave and enduring kind 
 of person, he will not undertake for fear of 
 botheration a fear of the most potent kind. 
 
 We have heard a great deal of late years 
 about red-tape and circumlocution. By far the 
 worst kind of red-tape is that which takes the 
 form of distrust of subordinates. That creates 
 the red-tape of the mind the red-tape which 
 prevents the subordinate from doing the most 
 infallibly necessary thing at the right time. 
 
 Now take an instance from a very small 
 incident in the present war. A correspondent 
 overhears a party of French cuirassiers, whose 
 horses are tied up in the courtyard under his 
 window, discuss their grievances. They had 
 marched that day ten leagues. The men and 
 the horses are exhausted. The town is full of 
 Government forage and stores of all kinds ; but 
 though the poor men have been searching for the 
 proper authority to furnish them with food and 
 forage ever since four o'clock it is nine o'clock 
 in the evening when the correspondent overhears 
 the talk they cannot get either food or forage.
 
 40 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Now, reflect upon this small incident. 
 
 Depend upon it, the food and forage were not 
 left locked up, without any one to superintend 
 them ; but the superintendent was doubtless 
 without the requisite authority to serve out the 
 rations. Requisite, do I say ? that is exactly 
 the point, whether it was requisite; whether the 
 circumstances did not constitute a sufficient 
 requisition ; but the superintendent was no doubt 
 afraid to act. It is not routine which is ruinous; 
 it is the fear of breaking through routine. 
 
 Sir Arthur. All the mischief proceeds from 
 want of trust. I say always, if you employ me, 
 trust me utterly. As the head of an office, 
 whether political or permanent, do you think I 
 wish to be extravagant ? Do you think it would 
 not be a pride and a pleasure to me, to do the 
 greatest possible amount of work with the least 
 possible expense ? If I am not that kind 
 of person if I am not to be trusted, for good- 
 ness' sake don't employ me. The service of 
 the State is not such a lovely service, that 
 men who have not their bread to make, or 
 who can get their bread in other ways, should 
 undertake it. 
 
 Ellesmere. We are rather overpowered by
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 41 
 
 the official men present ; and the one official man, 
 from whom we could hope to hear the other side 
 of the question, is silent. 
 
 Cranmer. There is a good deal in what they 
 say ; but they should have come to us at the 
 Treasury in their difficulties. I am sure, at least 
 in my time, we should never have been unreason- 
 able in these little matters. 
 
 Sir ArtJmr. Come to you ! Come to you in 
 a matter that requires immediate settlement, and 
 about which your lords would have replied to us 
 in three weeks' time, and perhaps with a negative ! 
 Eh, Milverton ? 
 
 Milverton. It is simply absurd, suffocatingly 
 absurd. 
 
 Ellesmere. Well, there is one comfort, that 
 when we have Milverton with us, we are sure to 
 have sufficiently strong language, although he 
 does pride himself upon being the justest of men. 
 
 Milverton. I have yet to learn that justice 
 always uses smooth language. 
 
 Ellesmere. It is an awful thing to endeavour 
 to penetrate through official reserve ; but with my 
 stupid, commonplace love for the concrete, I 
 should like to know the case (I speak as a lawyer) 
 in which Sir Arthur undertook an expenditure
 
 4 2 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 which would now be cavilled at, and which saved 
 many lives. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I don't mind telling you. [Here 
 Sir Arthur related, in confidence, the incident in 
 question.] 
 
 Ellesmere. Well, supposing your facts to be 
 true or rather, as I ought to say, your state- 
 ments to be accurate I think you have made out 
 a case. 
 
 Milverton. Let me go back for a moment to 
 the general question. Sir Arthur has been good 
 enough to approve of what I have said about the 
 difference in the question of expenditure of an 
 individual and of the State. But I don't mind 
 telling you confidentially, that I should almost be 
 satisfied if the State behaved as judiciously in 
 matters of expenditure, as most of the great 
 employers of labour do. The great employers of 
 labour, being mostly men of large minds and 
 extended views, are wonderfully liberal in the 
 recompence they give for good service. They 
 understand the value of a man. They don't take 
 him by examination in classics or mathematics ; 
 but they prove their man : and when he is proven, 
 they hold to him. I don't mean to maintain 
 that the State can, in every case, look after the
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 43 
 
 people it employs, as a private individual can ; 
 but it ought to aim at its service being at least 
 equal, if not superior, to the service of private 
 individuals. Reckless reduction, carried out with 
 great individual suffering, is a thing which injures 
 the whole of the public service, and damnifies it 
 for a generation to come. The doing away with 
 all prizes that can, by any possibility of screwing, 
 be done away with in the public service, is most 
 injurious to the encouragement of official talent. 
 Of course the same principle applies to all the 
 other services under the Government. In short, 
 economy, to be successful, requires the utmost 
 judgment, the utmost patience, the utmost tender- 
 ness; and will never be carried into practice wisely 
 upon sudden spurts, and where the economizing 
 person is bent upon showing that, during his 
 brief tenure of office, he effected such and such 
 signal reforms. 
 
 Sir Arthur. One thing I have to remark; 
 and it is this : They talk of the Manchester 
 school. I suppose they mean the school which 
 represents the trading interests of the country. 
 Now, if there are any people who will be injured 
 by injudicious economical reforms, it is those 
 who represent the great trading interests of this
 
 44 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 country. I can imagine that some old lady who 
 lives upon an annuity, and has not many years to 
 live, and who is childless, might gain something 
 a few sovereigns from injudicious parsi- 
 mony on the part of the Government ; but the 
 trading interests of the country, who thrive by 
 action, and force, and development, will find 
 themselves woefully mistaken, by adopting and 
 furthering the starving system for the public 
 service. 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. We ladies have been very 
 silent during this discourse upon economy. I 
 want, very presumptuously perhaps, to revert to 
 the consideration of war. My good brother, 
 Leonard, objects to the Prussian military system. 
 He has shown us what injury it would produce if 
 adopted here ; how you men would all be less 
 clever as lawyers, chemists, doctors, and states- 
 men, if some years of your life were to be given 
 to military training. Now, I want to know 
 whether he objects to volunteering? I have a 
 personal reason for asking. Our boy, John 
 Leonard, who is, as you know, a tall boy of his 
 age, though only sixteen, is beginning to tease me 
 about his becoming a volunteer. What am I to 
 say to him ?
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 45 
 
 Milverton. By all means let him become a 
 volunteer. 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. But won't this do him 
 injury in his future career ? 
 
 Milverton. Perhaps so ; perhaps not. It 
 may do him good service. Now, you mustn't 
 think I am inconsistent, Mildred ; for I really 
 am not, and you would not think that I am, if 
 I could thoroughly explain to you what I mean. 
 I love the volunteers. I think we are immensely 
 indebted to them. I think it is madness on our 
 part not to further and favour them in every way. 
 I am a volunteer myself an honorary one ; and 
 I am proud to say that I was chairman of the 
 committee that formed one of the most dis- 
 tinguished bodies of volunteers. I do not think 
 there is anything I am prouder of than " my 
 volunteers," as I always call them to myself. I 
 admit that I am a very honorary volunteer, for 
 I cannot carry myself much less myself and 
 a rifle for three or four miles, without being 
 dreadfully fatigued ; but I have promised my 
 corps that I. would look after the commissariat, 
 if ever they should be called into real action ; 
 and I have my eye upon all the corn-stacks 
 and hay-stacks in the neighbourhood.
 
 46 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Ellesmere. What an outburst of enthusiasm 
 from our daring and energetic friend ! 
 
 Milverton. But, now to business to answer 
 the charge of inconsistency that I know you will 
 bring against me. 
 
 Let those people, I say, volunteer, who have 
 the disposition, the time, the means to do so ; and 
 recollect that a young man may, at one period of 
 his life, have the disposition and the time and 
 the means, 'that at another he has not. As 
 regards John Leonard, he has not his total 
 fortune to make. If John Leonard were the 
 son of very poor parents, and were going to 
 Scotland to learn agriculture from some skilful 
 farmer there, I should be sorry to divert John 
 Leonard, in a peremptory manner, from his 
 avocation. In fact, without any more talk, there 
 is just that difference, which is pretty nearly 
 infinite, between what is compulsory and what 
 is voluntary. The volunteer suits himself, and, 
 in so doing, suits the State. 
 
 I suppose you will now let me return to the 
 main branch of the subject which I originally 
 intended to bring before you namely, culture. 
 I admit that there has been of late years a 
 general diffusion of something like culture; but
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 47 
 
 the number of highly cultivated men, of men 
 abreast with all the knowledge of their time, 
 has not, I conceive, proportionately increased. 
 
 Ellesmere. There is very good reason for 
 that, my dear fellow. Knowledge has been so 
 much extended that you cannot expect the 
 individual man to keep pace with it. 
 
 Sir Arthur. You forget, Ellesmere, that 
 the means of acquiring knowledge have also 
 immensely increased. Consider, for instance, 
 the aids that there are now for acquiring classical 
 knowledge; and how in former days a classical 
 scholar had to do so much pioneer work which is 
 now done for him. 
 
 Milverton. Think also of the number of 
 questions which are settled, or which mankind 
 have resolved not to fash themselves any more 
 about. 
 
 Cranmer. At any rate we can take up a prac- 
 tical question which Milverton wants to set before 
 us, and ascertain what a highly cultivated man of 
 the present day might be expected to know. 
 
 Milverton. To begin with, there are a certain 
 number of works which, if one aimed at being a 
 cultivated man, one would like to have read in 
 the original.
 
 48 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Ellesmere. Enumerate them ; and, for good- 
 ness' sake, do not make the list too long. 
 
 Milverton. The works of Homer, ^schylus, 
 Sophocles, Plato, Virgil, Horace, Dante, Cer- 
 vantes, Le Sage, Moliere and Goethe. I for- 
 bear to enumerate works written in the Eastern 
 languages ; but, at any rate, one would like 
 to have read one's Old Testament in the original. 
 Most of the works I have mentioned are untrans- 
 latable. Let all honour be given to the learned 
 and accomplished men who have given us trans- 
 lations of these great works ; but they would be 
 the first to admit that these works should be 
 read in the original by any one who aims at 
 enjoying their full beauty. 
 
 Sir Arthur. It is worth while, I think, to 
 remark, that it is not only the ancient works 
 which are untranslatable, in Milverton's sense of 
 the word, but the modern ones are just as much 
 so. For instance, Don Quixote. 
 
 Milverton. Being aware of Ellesmere's prone- 
 ness to object, I made my list a very short one. 
 Of course I could have added twenty or thirty 
 other works, in respect to which nearly the same 
 assertion might be made. 
 
 But I want to put before you another part of
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 49 
 
 the subject, which weighs much upon me. It 
 is this, that I cannot call that man a highly 
 cultivated man, in the present day, whose know- 
 ledge is confined alone to Literature, and does not 
 embrace Science. 
 
 Conceive that there are intelligent creatures 
 going about the world, highly placed, governing 
 other people, making laws and interpreting them, 
 who have not the slightest notion of the most 
 elementary proposition in pure Science ; and, 
 what is more to the point, have not the slightest 
 notion of the composition of earth, air, or water ; 
 and to whom the simplest properties of matter, or 
 rather the laws which govern matter, are a mystery. 
 To me, it is a wonder that mere curiosity does not 
 lead such men men, mark you, of the highest 
 intelligence to make some inquiry for themselves 
 about the things which surround them. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Of course this is the result of 
 a most defective education in early life. 
 
 Ellesmere. I beg leave to remark, Milverton, 
 that if you choose to make the acquisition of 
 ancient languages so important ; if you won't let 
 your highly cultivated man be content with read- 
 ing his Plato in a translation ; you have no right 
 to expect him to be acquainted with Science. I do 
 
 4
 
 50 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 not wish to make such an important discussion as 
 this is, personal ; but I must remind you again, 
 Milverton, that you are one of those unfortunate 
 persons gifted with an overpowering memory ; 
 and this will make you prone to set up an un- 
 reasonably high standard for your highly cul- 
 tured man. 
 
 Milverton. It may be so. I believe, how- 
 ever, that a good memory is not an original gift. 
 It is merely the result of an attention which any- 
 body might give. However, to oblige you, I 
 will give up Greek ; and if I do, you will surely 
 agree with me that Science ought to take its 
 place. I put aside for the moment the beauty 
 of scientific studies, the exquisite enjoyment to 
 be derived from refined calculations, the delight 
 of dealing with certainties. Looking back in 
 life, I can hardly remember any pleasure so great 
 as that of mastering some scientific problem. 
 Here again, as a mere matter of intellectual 
 curiosity, one would like to know what the 
 supreme thinkers in the world have been en- 
 deavouring to think out. I always feel that 
 the greatest intellectual surprise that any man 
 can have, is that which he may experience in 
 reading the first three sections of Newton. He
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 51 
 
 will acquire thereby a higher notion of the 
 possibilities of human attainment. 
 
 Ellesmere. Never having tried, can't say ; 
 but am willing to believe. I wish, though, you 
 knew something about Contingent Remainders. 
 I think you would see something there, too, as 
 regards the possibilities of human subtlety. 
 
 Milverton. But you see, Ellesmere, Con- 
 tingent Remainders may in some state of human 
 affairs be done away with ; whereas Newton's 
 three sections apply to the laws of the universe. 
 Well, now, I am going to say something with 
 which I fear that few of you, except the ladies, 
 will agree. I cannot consider that man to be 
 a highly cultured man, who does not know 
 something of music. Here is the only universal 
 language ! Here is the language which can touch 
 even the brute creation ! Herein are subtleties 
 of concord and discord, equivalent to the utmost 
 refinements in language, and, as I believe, far 
 surpassing the subtlety of Ellesmere's Contingent 
 Remainders. How wonderful a thing music is, 
 may be divined from the rarity of supreme success 
 in it. Great poets are rare enough ; but I think 
 you will all admit that great musicians are rarer. 
 And then, as I have said before, the thing is
 
 52 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 universal. You may plead ignorance of Newton's 
 works ; you cannot plead entire ignorance of what 
 Mozart has done : and probably not one of us 
 men here present has the slightest notion even 
 of the theory of music. However, the moment 
 I get any time to spare, I mean to learn music.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 53 
 
 CHAPTER II. 
 
 [!N our last conversation we left off suddenly, 
 music being the topic that was about to be 
 discussed. But Mr. Milverton was called away 
 to attend some justice business ; an opportunity 
 which was seized upon by Sir John Ellesmere, 
 who, I think, hates long discussion of any kind, 
 to propose a country walk. " It's no good waiting 
 for Milverton," he said. " These men of mighty 
 culture are always very weak about the legs. 
 For my part, I like a man to be developed in 
 all directions. What's the use of working your 
 brains to that extent of dizzy confusion that you 
 are afraid to look down from a height ? And 
 show me any learned man who can play well 
 at hockey. Look at that sweet dog. She 
 knows, as well as possible, that I am proposing 
 to go out for a walk, and that Milverton won't 
 go ; and every movement in her body expresses
 
 54 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 the misery of divided allegiance. But pleasure 
 will prevail over duty, as it has, before now, once 
 or twice, at least, in the course of the world's 
 history. Our pretty Fairy will come with us, 
 wagging her tail in a slow remorseful way, as 
 she passes the room where Milverton is in- 
 differently administering very indifferently 
 country justice." So we went for our walk, 
 leaving Mr. Milverton at home. 
 
 When we met next day for the purpose of 
 renewing our conversation, Mr. Milverton and 
 I could not for some time commence where we 
 had left off. On this occasion it was Mr. Maul- 
 everer's fault, who had been put into a great 
 rage by a speech he had just been reading of 
 an important politician. For Mr. Mauleverer 
 to be in a passion, is a rare thing. He has, in 
 general, an air of serene and unctuous con- 
 temptuousness. The conversation thus began. ] 
 
 Mauleverer. I declare solemnly 
 
 Ellesmere. Please don't, Mauleverer. I never 
 hear those words but I am sure that something 
 very rash and very abusive is to follow. 
 
 Mauleverer. Nonsense, Ellesmere. I declare 
 solemnly I would emigrate if I were a little
 
 AND GENERAL. CULTURE. 55 
 
 younger. This country will not be worth living 
 in, if such people are to become powerful. Now- 
 a-days any fellow may say anything, however 
 injurious to a large class of his fellow-country- 
 men, with the chance of its being well received, 
 if he can express himself well, and make a 
 tolerable speech " to split the ears of the ground- 
 lings," as Shakespeare has it. 
 
 Milverton. It all proceeds from want of 
 culture. 
 
 Cranmer. I really don't see that. Surely 
 it requires some culture to make a good speech. 
 
 Milverton. Want of general culture is what 
 I mean, Cranmer. If more people were more 
 highly cultured in this . respect, so that the power 
 of making good speeches was more generally 
 diffused, the exorbitant influence now possessed 
 by the few who can speak well would be 
 diminished. Besides, if there were more general 
 culture, there would be fewer "groundlings" 
 having ears to be split, or, as I should say, 
 tickled, by mere ability in speech-making. I 
 say this, much against my own interest, , for if 
 there is anything in the world I can do, it is to 
 make a speech. In fact, as you know, I never write 
 anything, but always speak what I have to indite.
 
 56 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Ellesmere. Yes ; I often think what a blessing 
 it has been for the world that you never were 
 in parliament. There would have been one more 
 fellow there who could talk for any given time 
 on any given subject. And we have quite 
 enough of them already. If I were the Sovereign, 
 I would never call any statesman to my councils, 
 who had not shown that for some one session he 
 could be totally silent. 
 
 Sir Arthur. It is a beautiful thing silence 
 Sir John. Let us show that we estimate the 
 fulness of its beauty by indulging in long " flashes 
 of silence " while Milverton resumes his discourse 
 upon culture. 
 
 Ellesmere. I cannot promise to do anything 
 of the kind. I cannot hear all manner of fallacies 
 and exaggerations put forward, and neglect my 
 duty by not contradicting, or controverting them 
 at the time. I don't make speeches. I only 
 make judicious interruptions and crushing re- 
 joinders. Crushed herbs are sweet, we know ; 
 and, if Milverton has anything to say worth hear- 
 ing, his lucubrations must be capable of develop- 
 ing sweetness when subjected to the slightly 
 crushing process caused by my poor and feeble 
 objections.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 57 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. Please don't be so modest, 
 John ; anything but that. 
 
 Ellesmere. Instead of sneering at me, you 
 ought to be thankful to me ; for you would all 
 be overpowered by those two authors, Sir 
 Arthur and Milverton, if there were not some 
 person representing the outer world, some extern, 
 as the Catholics would say, to keep them a little 
 in order. But go on, Milverton. Where were we ? 
 
 Milverton. I was endeavouring to incite you 
 all to learn music, having told you that it was 
 the only universal language that even the brutes 
 understood something of it, and rejoiced in it ; 
 that the deepest subtleties of composition and 
 expression might be displayed by it ; that it was 
 a universal solvent ; that it could move men 
 sooner than anything else to pity, sorrow, joy, 
 or indignation ; that it formed one of the finest 
 and most delicate means of sympathy ; above all, 
 that it was a most valuable kind of education, and 
 that it evolved humility. 
 
 Ellesmere. Good gracious ! I never heard a 
 word of this. I should have protested vigorously 
 if I had. I suppose Milverton fired off all these 
 fine things at the poor woman who came to 
 complain that her husband had beaten her black
 
 58 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 and blue (no doubt she deserved it). And how 
 astonished she must have been when Milverton, 
 in his musical frenzy, told her that if she had 
 known how to play one of Sebastian Bach's 
 fugues in E sharp, this evil thing would never 
 have befallen her. But to maintain that music 
 evolves humility is coming it a little too strong. 
 What on earth are you young women laughing 
 at ? I declare, the longer I live, the more con- 
 vinced I am that my little friend, Master Henry 
 Spoffell, aged nine years, is one of the wisest 
 of human beings. 
 
 Cranmer. Who is this infant prodigy, and 
 what wisdom has he taught Sir John ? I don't 
 perceive that the wisdom of people of riper age 
 produces much effect upon Ellesmere's obdurate 
 nature. 
 
 Ellesmere. Young Henry is a son of a friend 
 of mine at our Bar. I went down to Brighton 
 some time ago, and took the boy out for a treat 
 on a Sunday afternoon. But I must describe 
 him to you. He is a very little fellow, with a 
 very big head, on which he wears a very big 
 hat He has a tail-coat, and carries a stick. In 
 short, he is as like his papa as a gherkin is to 
 a full-grown cucumber. We walked up and
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 59 
 
 down the pier discoursing about many things, 
 including the great question as to whether modern 
 toffy is equal to ancient toffy that is, to the toffy 
 of my time. Suddenly he changed the subject, 
 and said to me, " Do you like the girls ?" Now 
 this would have been an embarrassing question 
 to some people ; but I dashed off an answer at 
 once, " Yes, I rather like them, Harry ; they are 
 very well in their way." " I don't," he said ; 
 "they giggle so." Doubtless some of the girls, 
 as they passed us on the pier, had been moved 
 to giggling by the *droll appearance of the little 
 man. But, upon reflection, I perceive the full 
 force and depth of his remark,, taken generally. 
 What was there in anything I . said just now 
 to provoke my wife and Mrs. Milverton to this 
 intemperate fit of giggling ? The men .were all 
 as grave as mustard-pots. 
 
 Lady E lies-mere. It only shows their ignorance. 
 Who could help giggling, as you call it, Sir, at 
 hearing such nonsense talked about music ? 
 
 One of the pleasant remarks which John often 
 makes to me, with a magisterial air, is, " Never 
 talk about things, my dear, which you do. not 
 thoroughly understand. Nod your head one way 
 or the other, but do not say anything." It would
 
 60 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 have been well if John had nodded his head, 
 instead of talking about a musical composition 
 in E sharp. There is no such thing. 
 
 Ellesmere. I have no doubt there is such 
 a thing ; but such elevated composition has not 
 yet reached your half-tutored ears. For my part, 
 I am resolved never to compose in any key but 
 E sharp. 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. By the way, are you quite 
 sure, John, that when the girls giggled, as they 
 met you and little Henry on the pier, it was only 
 at his droll appearance that they giggled ? 
 
 Ellesmere. I know that it is only the wife 
 of one's bosom who would think of making such 
 an ill-natured suggestion. But never mind her 
 nonsense, Milverton. How, I ask, does music 
 evolve humility ? 
 
 Milverton. One of the first things to encourage 
 in mankind is reverence. One of the most likely 
 things to promote reverence, is an appreciation 
 of the immense differences that exist in the 
 capacities of different individuals. Now there are 
 but few people who have the requisite knowledge 
 to appreciate the enormous difference between 
 Newton's capacity and their own. But there are 
 many who have some means of appreciating the
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 61 
 
 difference between a Beethoven, or a Mozart, 
 and themselves. They must be aware that there 
 are heights of the capacity for musical creative- 
 ness, which they can only look up to, but can 
 never hope to climb. Hence the study of music 
 promotes reverence and thus promotes humility, 
 in a larger extent, perhaps, than any other form 
 of culture, inasmuch as the knowledge of music 
 at least of what has been accomplished in music 
 is more widely diffused amongst all classes than 
 a similar knowledge in any other department of 
 science. I have no doubt that the culture of 
 music amongst the Germans has been of immense 
 service as regards the general culture of the 
 Teutonic mind. 
 
 Ellesmere. We practical English can do 
 without so much of this musical culture. 
 
 Milverton. Well, I will return to what you 
 call practical things. Nobody has a greater 
 contempt than I have for some of the conclusions 
 that so-called political economists have come to ; 
 but it is only because they have not known how 
 to wed political economy to real life a marriage 
 which, like many other marriages, might be very 
 felicitous, but is not so. I can hardly look upon 
 an English gentleman as a cultured man who
 
 62 
 
 has not read his Adam Smith. Then meta- 
 physics then theology. What great works there 
 are in these two branches of knowledge ! 
 
 Ellesmere. Knowledge ! Should we not 
 rather say guess-work ? 
 
 Milverton. Have it as you like : bring me 
 always down to the practical. Don't you think 
 it would be well if some of us men, who pretend 
 to be cultivated, knew a little more about physio- 
 logy ? Don't you think we should govern our- 
 selves and other people a little better ? I think 
 I have noticed that those men who know some- 
 thing of this subject, have an extreme objection 
 to leaden pellets being propelled into the human 
 body, of the delicacies and beauties of which they 
 understand something. 
 
 Mauleverer. I should like to say a word for 
 astronomy. 
 
 Sir Arthur. And I for mechanics. 
 
 Ellesmere. Dr. Johnson makes Rasselas 
 exclaim, "I see that it is impossible to be a 
 poet ! " So I say it is impossible to be one of 
 Milverton's cultured men. 
 
 There is an injunction in one of Lord Chester- 
 field's letters, which I have learnt by heart. 
 Indeed, I may say I have learnt it by carrying
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 63 
 
 into practice most of its requisitions. Lord 
 Chesterfield orders his son to be " well - bred 
 without ceremony, easy without negligence, steady 
 and intrepid with modesty, genteel without affec- 
 tation, insinuating without meanness, cheerful 
 without being noisy, frank without indiscretion, 
 and secret without mysteriousness ; to know the 
 proper time and place for whatever you say 
 or do, and to do it with an air of condition." 
 I flatter myself that I have entirely acquired the 
 art of doing everything with an air of condition ; 
 but even I have not yet attained the perfection 
 of behaviour inculcated by the politest of peers. 
 Much less can I hope, in this short and transitory 
 life, vexed by many bores, by obscure telegrams, 
 by London dinner-parties, and London evening- 
 parties, to become the man of perfect culture, 
 according to the lines laid down for constructing 
 that admirable creature by our exacting friend 
 and host. I give it up entirely. 
 
 But that is no reason why the rest of you 
 should not hear and give good heed to what 
 Milverton will tell you. 
 
 Cranmer. Oh, don't be so down-hearted, 
 Sir John. Seeing how successful you have 
 been in acquiring all the arts of politeness, I
 
 64 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 think you need not despair of becoming a well- 
 informed man, even although Milverton should 
 make his standard a very lofty one. 
 
 Ellesmere. Not merely lofty inaccessible 
 at least for a poor fellow like me, subject to all 
 these interruptions I have spoken of, and also 
 being very married. 
 
 But, to descend to particulars. Here am I, 
 as ignorant as Fairy of the first principles of 
 Science ; and how can you expect me, at my 
 time of life, to master any branch of Science ? 
 It is impossible. 
 
 Milverton. That I deny. Now, for instance, 
 what time do you suppose it takes to learn 
 something something well worth knowing of 
 chemistry ? I don't mean to be able to perform 
 delicate experiments ; but to ascertain something 
 of the nature of the things which surround you, 
 and to appreciate the exquisite exactitude of the 
 physical laws under which we live. 
 
 Ellesmere. Three years ? 
 
 Milverton. Three months. I do not mean 
 to say that a boy would do this in three months ; 
 but a man, practised in the art of learning, would. 
 
 Ellesmere. How fond you ought to be of 
 competitive examination.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 65 
 
 Milverton. As you well know, I am not at 
 all fond of it ; and one of the strongest reasons 
 for my dislike of it, is, that it tends to prevent 
 culture. By it, you insert into a youth's mind, 
 not the idea that knowledge is a beautiful thing 
 in itself : but, that its main use is for self- 
 advancement. You throw the acquisition of 
 knowledge into the domain of business. You 
 disgust the young with knowledge. Often as 
 it has been quoted, I quote again for your edifi- 
 cation, what Lord Bacon says. 
 
 [I cannot find the passage which Mr. Mil- 
 verton quoted, and I do not like to ask him 
 about it, as he is deeply engaged on some work 
 which occupies his whole mind. I recollect that 
 the passage was something of this kind : that 
 knowledge was not this, and not that, and not 
 the other that, for instance, it was not a terrace 
 for a vain man to pace up and down upon; but 
 that it was something for the glory of God, and 
 the relief of man's estate. I am certain of those 
 last words "the relief of man's estate;" and 
 they probably will recall the passage to the 
 minds of any of my readers who may be versed 
 in Bacon's works.] 
 
 Do you perceive, in that passage, any signs 
 
 5
 
 66 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 of approval of competitive examination ? The 
 man with a real love of knowledge, delights, as 
 Bacon did, in the idea that all men should know 
 what he knows. He revels in the sympathy 
 of men of knowledge. He wishes everybody 
 to be able to aid him in discovering the " open 
 secret" of nature. He pits himself, not against 
 his fellow-labourers, but against nature. 
 
 Ellesmere. I should like to work this question 
 out with you a little. Do I understand you, that 
 you object to examinations generally as a means 
 of ascertaining the qualifications of an individual ? 
 
 Milverton. No : but I object to making them 
 competitive ; or rather, to speak accurately, I 
 object to making them too severely competitive. 
 
 There is a common metaphor, which I always 
 make use of when talking on this subject. It 
 is the putting up of a bar for men or horses to 
 leap over. Put up your bar if you like. In 
 other words, settle a standard of qualification ; 
 and say that it shall be needful for a youth to 
 come up to that standard before he is permitted 
 to enter the Army, the Navy, or the Civil 
 Service ; but do not pit one youth against 
 another individually. I object very strongly 
 to the Cambridge system, by which you endeavour
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 67 
 
 to give every man his exact place ; this must 
 make competition very fierce. There will always 
 be sufficient competition in the world : we need 
 not increase it artificially. 
 
 Now look what an evil the competitive spirit 
 is, when carried to a great excess. We have 
 resolved to allow, and, whether we had so resolved 
 or not, we cannot help allowing the present war 
 to be fully in our minds at the present moment. 
 What is the cause of that war the vera causa, 
 as Lord Bacon would have said ? It is that 
 a people cannot be content with saying to 
 neighbouring people " we are very brave ; you 
 are very brave : we are very powerful ; you are 
 very powerful : let us agree to respect one 
 another, and to keep our hands off from one 
 another." But no : it must be ascertained, 
 absolutely ascertained, by competitive examina- 
 tion, which is the braver and which is the more 
 powerful. 
 
 As I have often ventured to say to you, there 
 is nothing so much wanted in the world, as for 
 a man, or a body of men, to be content to be 
 second. I need hardly point out that such a 
 contentment would fulfil one of the noblest aims 
 of Christianity.
 
 68 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Sir Arthur. I also think, Milverton, and 
 in this I know you will agree with me, that this 
 contentment would insure a greater amount of 
 knowledge and proficiency. 
 
 Milverton. Yes : if you carry competition to 
 its uttermost, you inevitably destroy individuality. 
 
 Ellesmere. Big words ; but I do not exactly 
 see what they mean. 
 
 Cranmer. Nor I. 
 
 Milverton. I suppose you will admit that, 
 for almost everybody, there is something in 
 which he could especially excel. If you press 
 competition to its uttermost, you never allow 
 sufficient time or thought to be given for the 
 development of each man's peculiar aptitude. 
 He must know what others know. There is 
 no subject which he can afford to neglect, and 
 no subject to which he can afford to give peculiar 
 attention. 
 
 Now, as regards another matter, I suppose 
 you will also admit, that envy is one of the worst 
 things in the world. 
 
 Envy mostly enters where close competition 
 leads the way. The greater men, it is true, 
 escape this vice. One of the sure signs of great- 
 ness is freedom from envy. But as regards the
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 69 
 
 mass of mankind, they will have envy developed 
 in them, almost in the same proportion that you 
 encourage individual competition. 
 
 Sir Arthur. There is nothing probably of 
 which people are so envious, as of fame. 
 
 Returning to war, I always think what an apt 
 illustration it is, of the accidental way in which 
 fame is gained, to see how the name of some 
 insignificant village suddenly becomes a renowned 
 historical name, because it has been in or near 
 the scene of battle. 
 
 Ellesmere. We generally read that the village 
 is in flames. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Yes : not only is fame an acci- 
 dental thing, but mostly an unfortunate thing. 
 
 Mauleverer. Very good, Sir Arthur. To 
 speak the language of the mathematicians, fame is 
 chiefly a function of misfortune. You can hardly 
 point out any very famous man in history, whose 
 latter days have not been clouded with mis- 
 fortune, unless indeed, like Caesar, he has been 
 assassinated in the full flush of his good fortune. 
 
 Milverton. I could : but how about the 
 eminent men in Literature ? 
 
 Mauleverer. Oh ! they only write because 
 they are miserable miserable for themselves or
 
 70 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 for others except those who write for money, 
 and surely they are miserable enough! 
 
 Ellesmere. I wish to interrupt this dolorous 
 discourse, and to say something which has 
 nothing whatever to do with the subject, but 
 which has just come into my mind. You see our 
 dog, Fairy. Please regard her with admiration. 
 
 Cranmer. Why ? we always regard Fairy 
 with admiration, but why to-day especially ? 
 
 Ellesmere. Because Fairy, like all the rest of 
 the good animals, makes use only of those weapons 
 of offence and defence which nature has gifted her 
 with. And her pretty teeth she only tries upon 
 boys. Don't you, Fairy? It is only ourselves, and 
 the rest of the simious tribe, who carry arms or 
 make use of missiles. The monkeys, you know, 
 will throw down cocoa-nuts at you. If I had been 
 consulted, I do not think I should have given hands 
 to any of the animals, man included at least, not 
 until their heads had been better trained to make 
 good use of such a potential thing as a hand. 
 
 Milverton. Putting aside Ellesmere's ill- 
 natured remark 
 
 Ellesmere. Suppose wasps had hands, what a 
 life they would lead us. 
 
 Milverton. Putting aside Ellesmere's ill-
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 71 
 
 natured remark, I reverf to the subject we were 
 discussing. What a different thing is the desire 
 of knowledge from the desire of fame ! It always 
 surprises me that men can go through the world 
 clever men who seem to have no desire to 
 understand what they see about them. Now 
 here is a safe passion the passion for knowledge 
 which you might encourage in mankind to the 
 uttermost ; and it is an unenvious passion. 
 Here is Ellesmere, who knows nothing of Arabic ; 
 but his mind is set on attaining the first place at 
 the Bar. What will that profit you hereafter, 
 Ellesmere ? whereas one can hardly imagine the 
 soul divorced from its knowledge. 
 
 Ellesmere. This is all very fine ; but the 
 body objects exceedingly to being divorced from 
 the utmost amount of pounds, shillings, and pence 
 it can accumulate. 
 
 Sir Arthur. To use a witticism, which was 
 much current last year, the most obdurate metals 
 will melt, you know, Ellesmere, in that place to 
 which most of the eminent lawyers are hastening. 
 
 Ellesmere. It seems to me that those persons 
 who delight so much in polite culture, can be 
 very rude. 
 
 But how about women, Milverton ? Would
 
 72 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 not a little competition be good for them ? 
 Milverton is very discreet, not to say cunning, in 
 all that he has ever said about women's claims, 
 women's rights, women's education, and the like, 
 which we hear such a din about nowadays. 
 
 Milverton. You are quite right, Ellesmere ; 
 not cunning though discreet. When I write, or 
 talk about anything, I have always a strong wish, 
 perhaps a stupid one, to bring people over to my 
 way of thinking ; so I generally avoid needless 
 controversy as much as I can. But I have no 
 objection to enter upon this subject. I will begin 
 with an axiom that is, with something which is 
 an axiom in my mind. Women are in many 
 things our superiors, in many things our inferiors 
 our equals never. I hold with Coleridge, that 
 there are souls masculine and souls feminine. If 
 I were suddenly asked to give a proof of the 
 goodness of God to us, I think I should say that 
 it is most manifest in the exquisite difference He 
 
 made between the souls of men and women* 
 
 so as to create the possibility of the most comfort- 
 ing and charming companionship that the mind of 
 man can imagine. 
 
 Ellesmere. What will your friend John Stuart 
 Mill say to all this ? 
 
 ' f/ 
 
 rX 
 
 <v 
 
 ^ - 
 
 -
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 73 
 
 Milverton. I admire John Mill amazingly as 
 a human being; and though I see but little of 
 him, I feel very much attached to him. But I do 
 not always agree with his views. Now, I will 
 take one point of difference which affects this 
 question. He would say, I believe, if he were 
 here, "you speak of women as they are, not as 
 they might be, if they were properly cultured." 
 
 I believe that careful investigation would 
 furnish a complete answer to this argument of 
 his. I will take a particular case. For one 
 man who understands the rudiments of music, 
 there are, at least, three or four hundred women 
 who do so. Do they create in it ? Where is 
 there a Frau Beethoven, a Frau Mozart, a 
 Signora Bellini, a Signora Rossini, a Madame 
 Auber ? It is a most audacious thing for me 
 to say, but I feel as certain of it as that I am 
 here ; that if I knew as much of music as most 
 of the ladies of my acquaintance, I should 
 assuredly use that knowledge for invention. I 
 could not go on, playing other people's ideas. 
 This is one of the marked differences between 
 men and women the exceeding audacity of the 
 one, the exceeding sweet timidity and prudence 
 of the other. I don't believe that this difference
 
 74 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 will be essentially altered by any change in the 
 " regiment of women." 
 
 Ellesmere. I must interrupt, and say that as 
 to audacity 
 
 Milverton. Now don't talk nonsense, Elles- 
 mere. Was it a woman, do you think, who 
 first constructed a boat ? or, what is still more 
 audacious, first set foot in it upon the water ? 
 
 Ellesmere. As to that, I admit that probably 
 it was not a woman who first eat an oyster. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Milverton is right, according to 
 my judgment. 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. But let us hear, Leonard, 
 about those things in which we are superior. 
 
 Milverton. You know them, my dear, as well 
 as I do. Everybody knows them. It is talking 
 common-place to talk about them. You are 
 superior in quiet endurance, in niceness of 
 demeanour, in proprieties of all kinds, in delicate 
 perceptions of all kinds especially of character 
 in domestic prudence, in constancy ; and, what is 
 greatest of all, in not allowing your affections, or 
 your admirations, to be dulled or diminished by 
 familiarity. Really I do not think there is any- 
 body who admires women more than I do. 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. That is a prelude, Blanche,
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 75 
 
 I have no doubt, to his commencing the chapter 
 on our inferiorities. 
 
 Milverton. Yes it is, my dear. You are 
 inferior to us in the sense of justice, in daring, 
 in originality, and, generally, in greatness. You 
 have minor defects too. You are not so pleasant 
 to one another as men are. The art of nagging, 
 and of being generally disagreeable, when you 
 choose, are yours in perfection. Decidedly you 
 are more unforgiving than we are. 
 
 Ellesmere. What about their reasoning 
 powers ? 
 
 Milverton. These are very great. 
 
 Ellesmere. This is a new theory. 
 
 Milverton. Why you really don't suppose, 
 Ellesmere, that women can't reason quite as well 
 as men ? 
 
 Ellesmere. I may be very foolish, but I had 
 always supposed something of the kind. 
 
 Milverton. Oh no; it's quite a mistake. 
 Some of the finest reasoners that have ever 
 lived have been women. What you perceive in 
 them, that makes you think they cannot reason as 
 well as men, is this, that they decline to abide by 
 the decisions of reason. They introduce the 
 affections of the soul, when we, in our poor,
 
 76 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 creeping way, are content to abide by the con- 
 clusions of logic. You argue with a woman. 
 I can tell you, she appreciates all your argu- 
 ments; and, at the end of your discourse, is 
 frequently wont to repeat her original opinion 
 in exactly the same words as she first used in 
 stating it. But this is because she does not 
 choose to be convinced. 
 
 Ellesmere. Well, I do believe there really 
 is something in what you say ; but it makes them 
 out to be inferior animals, which is all that I 
 care to prove. 
 
 Milverton. No, it does not. Altogether it 
 is a most beautiful arrangement, showing again 
 the wisdom of Creation. I will tell you why. 
 
 Women were made inferior to men in physical 
 strength. If they had been made exactly amen- 
 able to our ways of reasoning, they would have 
 had too little hold upon us. Whereas now, being 
 really resolved to rule, as all we men are, at least 
 in serious matters, we are obliged to guide and 
 govern women when we do guide and govern 
 them ' 
 
 Ellesmere. It is well to put in that proviso. 
 
 Milverton. To guide and govern them, when 
 we do guide and govern them, through their affec-
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 77 
 
 tions, so that we are obliged perpetually to pay 
 court to them, which, as I intimated before, is 
 a very beautiful arrangement. 
 
 Ellesmere. I see. The irrationality of women 
 is another proof of the wisdom and goodness of 
 Providence. That is, according to the Milver- 
 tonian view of the matter. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I think the Milvertonian view, 
 as you call it, is a very charming view, and I 
 believe it to be a correct one. 
 
 Mauleverer. It may be true, but it gives one 
 a very miserable notion of the construction of 
 human society : namely, that we are to live with 
 creatures, and to be immensely dependent upon 
 them (almost all cookery is thrown into their 
 hands), with respect to whom we are to encounter 
 the perpetual fatigue of winning their affections, 
 if we are to persuade them to act reasonably, 
 that is, according to our view of reason, which 
 may be a most imperfect one. 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. I am thoroughly puzzled. 
 I do not know whether to accept this view of the 
 question, or not. There seems to be a great deal 
 of truth in it, but yet it places us upon a lower 
 level. 
 
 I could have said exactly a similar thing for
 
 78 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 our side. I know that when I want to persuade 
 John to do anything which I am certain the 
 right rules of reason should compel him to 
 assent to, I am often obliged to coax him a 
 little; which I suppose corresponds with that 
 process which Leonard calls winning the affec- 
 tions, and which is so tiresome and fatiguing, 
 according to my husband and Mr. Mauleverer. 
 
 Ellesmere. Mauleverer said nothing about 
 "tiresome." That is the way in which women 
 always contrive to introduce something foreign 
 to the discussion. Notwithstanding Milverton's 
 assertion as to their powers of reasoning, the 
 power of keeping to the point is not one which 
 they manifest. 
 
 Cranmer. We shall never agree upon this 
 matter. We may differ considerably about war ; 
 but, at any rate, there is more chance of our 
 coming to agreement about that, than there is 
 about our agreeing in any conclusions respecting 
 the rights, claims, privileges, immunities, and 
 intellectual merits of women. It is very ungallant 
 of me, perhaps ; but, should I ever come back to 
 office, I do not wish to have them as clerks in the 
 Treasury; for, unfortunately, I am not a man 
 skilled in guiding or governing anybody by the
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 79 
 
 affections. I resign that form of guidance to the 
 supreme suavity of Sir John Ellesmere. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I have not read the news in to- 
 day's papers. And it is dangerous to talk about 
 the war, without having read the morning's news ; 
 for, otherwise, one may put forth the most intelli- 
 gent and carefully-considered opinions which are 
 flatly contradicted and shown to be absurd and 
 irrelevant by the latest telegrams. 
 
 Milverton. The news to-day is most remark- 
 able. It is not that it chronicles any great event 
 of siege or battle ; but it shows what wonderful 
 powers of arrangement and what prevision have 
 been brought into action by the Germans. It 
 appears that there are, at least, 650,000 of them 
 on the soil of France, at a considerable distance 
 from their base of operations; and yet all these 
 people are amply provided with food and ammu- 
 nition, and the horses with forage. It is an 
 immense triumph of forethinking organization. 
 
 Sir Arthur. While we are talking about 
 war, I will tell you one thought which I have 
 always had about it, a very presumptuous 
 thought you will probably say, but it is one to 
 which I hold most strongly. I think it is non- 
 sense to talk of any especial military talent. I
 
 8o CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 am not alone in this view. One of the most 
 eminent of modern statesmen holds it also. 
 
 Cranmer. I don't understand exactly what 
 you mean. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I mean that I object to the 
 common notion that a great military commander 
 possesses certain qualifications peculiarly fitting 
 him for the conduct of military affairs, and that 
 these qualifications are seldom possessed even by 
 the most distinguished men in civil affairs. It 
 appears to me, on the contrary, that all business, 
 military as well as civil, should be conducted 
 much in the same manner, and requires much 
 the same qualifications to conduct it well. If 
 there is anything special required for military 
 command, it is apprehensiveness. I think you 
 will find that all great commanders have pos- 
 sessed this quality in a high degree. It is the 
 want of this quality which has led to so many of 
 the French defeats. 
 
 Milverton. I quite agree with your notion, 
 Sir Arthur, that there is no wonderful difference 
 between the qualities that make men excel in 
 military command and those which make them 
 excel when placed in power as civilians ; except, 
 perhaps, that there is something required in
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 81 
 
 action on the day of battle, for instance which 
 requires some especial qualifications in a com- 
 mander. 
 
 Ellesmere. I do not see this. I know what 
 you mean ; rapidity of decision upon change of 
 circumstance. This quality is wanted in civil life 
 too. It is needful to make a great debater, a 
 wise councillor, a good lawyer. I think you are 
 right, Sir Arthur, in challenging anybody to 
 maintain that generalship requires extraordinary 
 qualifications. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Well, this emboldens me to say 
 something which I should not otherwise have 
 ventured to say, even to such intimate friends 
 as you are. You know I am the least military 
 of mortal men, being merely a student and a 
 politician : but I declare to you (don't laugh at 
 me), that I think I showed this military talent, 
 which Milverton calls apprehensiveness, in con- 
 sidering the present campaign. Like the rest of 
 the world, I took down my maps when the war 
 began, and looked at them carefully. I made up 
 my mind that there was immense danger to 
 the French from the possible movement of 
 the Prussians through the Vosges. I should 
 instantly, if I had been in command of the 
 
 6
 
 82 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 French, have provided against that movement. 
 You may laugh if you like, but I assure you this 
 is not an afterthought. My little daughter, if she 
 were here, would tell you that " Papa was always 
 talking about the Vosges." 
 
 Milverton. I quite believe you, Sir Arthur ; 
 and I have no doubt that you were not alone in 
 this apprehensive thought, but that hundreds 
 thought the same. 
 
 Ellesmere. It ought always to be remem- 
 bered, but is very frequently forgotten, that the 
 Great Napoleon was not a Frenchman. He 
 seems to me to have been an apt representative 
 of the genius of the Italians. 
 
 Milverton. Quite true, Ellesmere. 
 
 By the way, there is not anything so important 
 for a nation as to be well aware of its peculiar 
 characteristics, and to guard against the defects 
 which its specialities lay it open to. 
 
 I must tell you an anecdote, which I think 
 singularly illustrates one of the characteristics of 
 the French. Our friend, George Lewis, told it 
 to me years ago ; and I wish I could tell it to 
 you as well as he told it. 
 
 An intelligent Frenchman came to pay him, 
 or some friend of his, a visit. In the room there
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 83 
 
 was a large map of Europe over the chimney- 
 piece. The Englishman and the Frenchman sat 
 down before the fire. After some ordinary talk, 
 they began to look up at the map, and to comment 
 upon it. 
 
 Now, you know, in any map of Europe, how 
 Russia seems to overhang the rest of Europe, 
 like a great thundercloud. The Frenchman 
 made these extraordinary remarks, " At first 
 sight, no doubt, the movement would appear 
 likely to come from there." Thus saying, he 
 pointed to huge Russia. 
 
 " Mais non ! it seems to me evident that the 
 movement must come from there ; " and, as he 
 spoke, he pointed to small France. 
 
 Now, if the friends had been considering any- 
 thing else but a map; if it had been a French 
 book, or a French work of art, or a speech in 
 the French Chambers, there might have been 
 some " discourse of reason " in remarking that, 
 " from France must come the movement which 
 shall dominate the world." 
 
 But the map ! but of all things else, the map. 
 How could any rational being discern in the 
 map that " the movement " must come from 
 France ?
 
 84 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 I have often thought over this anecdote, which 
 was passed on to me when it was quite warm, 
 when the conversation had just taken place. And 
 I have thought what a remarkable difference it 
 indicates between English and French nature. I 
 suppose that there is not an Englishman in the 
 world, who, looking at the map of Europe, does 
 not feel somewhat appalled by the relative small- 
 ness of his own country, and astonished that 
 " the movement has ever come from his small 
 island." 
 
 To use the expression of our friend Carlyle, 
 " the imagination of a Frenchman seems some- 
 times to be divorced from fact" 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. All you gentlemen seem to 
 do little else than philosophize about this war, 
 entering deeply into national character, and 
 matters of that kind ; but you seem to lose sight 
 of the horrors of it, and these are the things 
 which oppress our poor feminine minds the most. 
 But then we are so " deficient in greatness," you 
 know. 
 
 Milverton. If I am to dwell upon the 
 horrors of the war, I must adopt an astronomical 
 illustration, which I have tried on you before. 
 
 Ellesmere. Now don't go into abtruse cal-
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 85 
 
 culations. " My education was completed," as 
 the late Lord Derby used to say, " in the pre- 
 scientinc period." I wish I had been brought 
 up as a national schoolboy. You hear them 
 asked some such question as this : 2,375 yards 
 of taffety, at 3^. 6%d. a yard ? The clever little 
 wretches at once advance forward, stretching out 
 their arms like pump-handles, to show that they 
 can answer the question, if their master will only 
 allow them to do so. Whereas I keep thinking 
 all the time, what a difficulty it would be for me 
 to answer the question at all, even with the 
 assistance of my wife and my clerk ; and yet you 
 must admit I am rather a clever fellow, as you 
 all have reason to know. 
 
 Milverton. Want of culture, you see : 
 want of early culture. But now to proceed with 
 my astronomical illustration. What I wish to 
 show is, that there are hardly any of us who 
 properly appreciate figures. 
 
 When, on an unclouded night, Ellesmere, 
 you look up into the heavens, how many stars 
 do you see ? 
 
 Ellesmere. Do you remember what Charles 
 Lamb said when the schoolmaster asked him 
 whether he had ever made any calculation as
 
 86 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 to the value of the rental of all the retail shops 
 in London ? 
 
 If, he said, he had asked me what song the 
 sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when 
 he hid himself among women, I might have 
 " hazarded a wide solution." And so say I on 
 the present occasion. Not but that I have some 
 statistical ideas. If you were to tell me of 
 any "long, unlovely street," as Tennyson says, 
 in which there are seven hundred and fifty-three 
 married men, I could tell you pretty accurately 
 about the relations of domination that exist 
 between them and their wives. There are six 
 hundred who are entirely managed by their wives ; 
 there are one hundred and fifty foolish ones, who 
 are always wrangling and jangling for the mastery; 
 and there are only three who manage their wives 
 without beating them. But then these three are 
 nearly always away from home, being captains 
 of vessels. I am a dab at some kinds of calcula- 
 tions, you see ; but, as regards the stars, I have 
 no skill in estimating their number, or anything 
 else about them. 
 
 Milverton. But try, Ellesmere ; think over 
 it, and try. 
 
 Ellesmere. Well, if I must say something,
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 87 
 
 I should say, that on such a night as you describe, 
 I see 157,283 stars. I make it odd numbers, 
 because that looks scientific ; but I suppose it 
 is hundreds of thousands. 
 
 Milverton. The utmost you ever see is three 
 thousand. 
 
 Ellesmere, Oh, that is the sort of thing one 
 might tell a young woman, when one is making 
 love to her on a moonlight night, and when she 
 will believe anything one says. That time of 
 facile credence however soon' passes away, accord- 
 ing to my experience. But you must not try such 
 a preposterous statement on us middle-aged men. 
 I know I see more than three thousand. 
 
 Milverton. No, you don't. What you do 
 not know, is, what a large number is three 
 thousand. You have really no idea of* three 
 thousand. Am I not right, Mauleverer, about 
 the stars ? 
 
 Mauleverer. Yes. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I speak with all submission, in 
 the presence of you scientific people ; but I am, 
 for once, entirely of Ellesmere's way of thinking, 
 or rather of imagining. 
 
 Milverton. Let us give them, Mauleverer, a 
 proof of what we have been saying. I forget the
 
 88 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 exact figures, but I will take care to overstate 
 them, rather than the contrary. There are, at 
 the utmost, only five thousand nine hundred stars 
 which are visible to the naked eye. Now I 
 suppose you will admit that you can only see at 
 one time one hemisphere; and, supposing the 
 stars to be equally distributed, you can only see 
 two thousand nine hundred and fifty. 
 
 Three thousand is your maximum ; but you 
 have so poor an idea of three thousand, that you 
 can hardly believe this. 
 
 Ellesmere. I am silenced, but not convinced. 
 I am quite feminine in this matter. I disdain 
 facts and figures, and hold to my own opinion 
 still. 
 
 Milverton. Now ; having appreciated, to some 
 extent, how large a number three thousand really 
 is, imagine a dead or wounded man in the place of 
 each one of those stars. It would be a good many 
 wretched beings to mourn over. Now imagine 
 that you could travel from hemisphere to hemis- 
 phere of different worlds, and see, one after 
 another, a hundred hemispheres of these horrid 
 constellations of dead and wounded men. Thus 
 you might attain to some notion of the injury to 
 life already caused by this war. I made a calcula-
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 89 
 
 tion, some little time ago, of the room those who are 
 entirely hors de combat would take up ; and, if I 
 recollect rightly, I found that you might pass along 
 a line of them, arranged on both sides of the road 
 in beds three feet wide, without any interval, from 
 London to Dover. It is worth while, I think, 
 sometimes to go into these somewhat fanciful 
 modes of illustrating the enormous evils and 
 sufferings caused by war. 
 
 Cranmer. I saw the other day that some one 
 had made a calculation of the agricultural losses 
 occasioned by this war, and they amounted, in 
 money, to 1 7o,ooo,ooo/. 
 
 Sir Arthur. It is a great advantage to us, 
 that we have Milverton as one of our company, 
 because he always starts us with some one subject 
 that is predominant for the time in his mind ; and, 
 as everybody must have noticed, when you have 
 one subject before you, much of what you see, 
 or hear, or read, seems all at once to have an 
 unaccountable reference to that one subject. 
 
 Ellesmere. Oh yes ! It is a great advan- 
 tage to have Milverton boring-on upon one 
 subject, because it is so delightful to make 
 excursions from it, and to diverge into a hundred 
 other things. There is all the pleasure of naughti-
 
 9 o CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 ness in this divergence. It has the sweetness of 
 forbidden fruit. 
 
 Cranmer. I don't like it at all. I like to 
 keep to one subject, and to work that out well. 
 But I know that to attempt this is hopeless 
 when certain persons are with us. 
 
 Ellesmere. Why not say at once, a certain 
 person ? 
 
 Sir Arthur. What I am going to say now, 
 touches nearly the two great subjects we have 
 been discussing namely, Culture and War. 
 
 I suppose we have all read our newspaper 
 lately with an eagerness and intentness unknown 
 to us before. We have already said something 
 about newspaper writing ; but I mean to say 
 something more. Milverton began our conver- 
 sation with an intimation that he was going to 
 dwell upon our deficiency in culture. I think 
 that our newspaper-writing is an astounding 
 instance to the contrary. You easily see how 
 this doctrine of mine bears upon the question 
 of the present war. I declare solemnly, to use 
 Mauleverer's favourite expression, I declare 
 solemnly that I think that the misfortunes of 
 the French are to be attributed more to their 
 bad newspaper- writing than to bad generalship,
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 91 
 
 to insufficient preparation, or to almost any other 
 cause that you can name. 
 
 Now, look at our own newspapers. Do you 
 not feel as certain as possible, that if our states- 
 men were to put forth false intelligence, inflated 
 manifestoes, wild proclamations, or to conduct 
 themselves in the most unseemly and unpatriotic 
 manner in their assemblies, the newspapers, as at 
 present constituted, would be down upon them in 
 a moment ? 
 
 Nay more, if our chief literary men were to 
 write as wildly as some of the chief literary men 
 in France have written at the present crisis, our 
 newspapers, instead of backing them, would 
 ridicule them and keep them in order. 
 
 Cranmer. I don't love newspapers, for they 
 are always so hard upon us official men ; but I 
 think you are right, Sir Arthur, in what you 
 imagine about them, and that they really would 
 curb extravagance of every kind. 
 
 Milverton. I must own, Sir Arthur, that 
 there is a great deal in what you say. I was 
 thinking, however, when I introduced the subject 
 of culture, of individual culture. But, to return 
 to newspapers. I think I fully appreciate the 
 wonderful things done by the daily press, as, for
 
 92 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 instance, the goodness of the articles, evidently 
 written in the small hours of the' night after a 
 debate in the House of Commons. But what 
 astonishes me most is the weekly press. The 
 quantity of thought expressed in it is amazing. 
 I will show you what I mean. Sandy, just give 
 me that paper which is on the table. 
 
 Now let me enumerate the subjects it treats 
 of. First there is an article on " The War," 
 which seems to me to be very good. Then 
 there is a thoughtful article upon " Italy and 
 Rome." Then one upon " The German Con- 
 ditions of Peace," which appears to give a very 
 fair view of the case. 
 
 Now take a single sentence in it. " Victor 
 Hugo and Michelet shared with Beranger and 
 Thiers the guilt of exciting two generations of 
 Frenchmen to repeat the crimes of the empire 
 by the robbery of the Rhine." Is not that a 
 true statement, and a very significant one ? Then 
 there is an article on " The Ministry and the 
 Democrats." Then an article entitled " Sir 
 Henry Bulwer on Mediation." Then one on 
 " The Future Constituent Assembly." I would 
 not say that I agree with everything in these 
 articles; but I must admit that there is a great
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 93 
 
 deal in them. Then comes an article upon 
 Mr. Bruce. I do not think that this is a just 
 article, whatever may be its merits as a clever 
 piece of composition. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I suppose you will admit with 
 me, Milverton, that the man has not yet been 
 born who can for any long time fill the appoint- 
 ment of Home Secretary with satisfaction to the 
 murmuring public. 
 
 Milverton. No ; that phoenix has not yet 
 arisen in the world. 
 
 Ellesmere. I tell you what, my fine fellows, 
 you don't know what it is to be Attorney or 
 Solicitor-General. Those unhappy functionaries 
 have to be acquainted with all earthly and 
 heavenly affairs, and to be ready at a moment's 
 notice to give a sound legal opinion upon them. 
 
 Milverton. Those potent personages are 
 not so much before the world as the Home 
 Secretary is. Their great functions are rather 
 dark : his are conducted under that " fierce light " 
 which " beats " upon the Home Office, as it does 
 upon the Throne. 
 
 But you must let me resume my description 
 of this periodical. I don't care if it fatigues 
 or bores you. Its very length will prove the
 
 94 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 truth of what I say. After the cruel usage of 
 Mr. Bruce, comes an elaborate article on " The 
 War of 1870," written, I should guess, by a 
 learned soldier. Then come what are called 
 the social articles, any one of which would have 
 delighted and astonished our ancestors, accus- 
 tomed to weak Tatlers and verbose Ramblers. 
 
 Ellesmere. Astonished, probably. 
 
 Milverton. These articles are headed " Good 
 Advice," " Popping the Question on the Stage," 
 and " Village Politics in France." With regard 
 to the last-named article, I do really believe 
 that there is more knowledge shown in it of 
 the French peasantry than almost any literary 
 man in France could produce. I say literary 
 man advisedly ; for George Sand seems to 
 me to have a profound knowledge of peasant 
 life. Now I will read you a bit from this 
 article : 
 
 " The peasant is nowhere an easy person to 
 become really acquainted with, and the French 
 peasant is the least easy of all. He is far 
 pleasanter to talk to than his English namesake, 
 but he is just as distrustful. He has a sort of 
 animal secrecy and wariness ; and in the presence 
 of men of better station and education than him-
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 95 
 
 self, although he is quite ready to display a 
 democratic consciousness of equality, which would 
 be odd on this side of the Channel, he has all 
 the caution and reticence of intuitive fear. Books 
 help us very little indeed. Nine out of ten 
 French novels never stir beyond the Parisian 
 boulevards ; and the few that do, with one 
 illustrious, exception, either confine themselves, 
 like Balzac, to country towns, or invent imaginary 
 scenes of country innocence and repose. Perhaps 
 the one person who knows the French peasant 
 best is the Englishman who wanders from village 
 to village, with knapsack on his back." 
 
 Then there is an article, showing great 
 research, upon " The Protests against the 
 Vatican Degree ; " thea " Army Organization " 
 is discussed ; then comes an article of anti- 
 quarian research ; then " Pawnbroking " is elabor- 
 ately discussed ; then " The Drama ; " then there 
 are several reviews of .English books. Finally 
 there is an elaborate review of French Literature, 
 in .which thirteen or fourteen French works are 
 carefully considered. 
 
 .We are accustomed to this kind of thing, 
 and hardly . realize the astonishing nature of it. 
 This is but one of the weekly productions. It
 
 96 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 happened to be the one on the table. There are 
 others, in their way, quite as astonishing. 
 
 Sir Arthur. And do you not admit, Mil- 
 verton, that if our statesmen were to deviate 
 into folly and excitement, these fellows would 
 do their best to keep us right ? 
 
 Milverton. Yes : but there is something to 
 be said on the other side ; namely, that so much 
 good writing, which of course mainly takes the 
 form of criticism, always tends to check vigorous 
 action on the part of those who have to act. 
 
 Mauleverer. Very true, . Milverton ; very 
 true : you cannot develop any one form of 
 human thought and endeavour, without somewhat 
 injuring all the rest. 
 
 Ellesmere. Pleasant creature, this ! Gold- 
 smith's Croaker was an encouraging fellow when 
 compared with him ! 
 
 Mauleverer. You all go on so fast, you seem 
 to me always to have your thoughts at the tip of 
 your tongues, so that I have no chance with you. 
 When I do get in a few words, I am obliged to 
 make them pretty strong. As for Milverton, I am 
 positively ashamed of him. Something is said, 
 which hits him very hard, or which at least ought 
 to hit him very hard, and which he ought to feel ;
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 97 
 
 and, instead of rejecting it, he receives it with the 
 utmost placidity, just because it enables him to 
 say something friendly and encouraging about the 
 progress of human affairs. If the French press is 
 noxious, at any rate the English press is admirable, 
 according to him and Sir Arthur. 
 
 Ellesmere. So somebody gets some credit, 
 which must be very painful to you, Mauleverer. 
 
 Mauleverer. Allow me to change the subject 
 a little, only a little, and to make a statement of 
 facts as they exist at the present moment, in 
 which doubtless these praisers of mankind, Sir 
 Arthur and Milverton, will discern something 
 that is very wonderful and very beautiful. 
 
 Ellesmere. Don't include me. I didn't say 
 the English press was very astonishing or very 
 beautiful. 
 
 Mauleverer. Please, Sir John, have the good- 
 ness, for one five minutes, to let me have my say 
 without interruption. 
 
 There is a city, the second in the world as 
 regards size, the first in the world as regards beauty : 
 noble in Architecture (if there is such a thing as 
 good Architecture in the world) ; rich in Art, as far 
 as man's poor efforts in Art can go ; abundant 
 in works of Literature, whatever merit that abund- 
 
 7
 
 98 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 ance may have : bright, clear, joyous ; adorned 
 with gardens, statues, fountains ; the home of 
 pleasure; the home of Milverton's beloved cul- 
 ture ; distinguished for Science, as well as for 
 Literature and Art, not to have seen which is not 
 to have seen anything of the world. And this 
 great city is beleagured by a host of armed men ; 
 and, at this moment; we are dubious whether its 
 temples, its towers, its palaces, its vast abodes of 
 hoarded Literature and Art, its pleasant gardens, 
 its light-reflecting lovely streets, may not be 
 welded into one hideous mass of destruction by 
 the shot and shell of the invaders. Here is your 
 triumph of civilization : here is an example of the 
 progress of human affairs : here is one of the con- 
 quests of Christianity ! This is what it all comes 
 to : and you can sit in your armchair, and praise 
 mankind. 
 
 Ellesmere. (Aside to me in a whisper ;) He 
 is very awful when he breaks out in this way ; 
 isn't he, Sandy ? These quiet fat men always 
 are. 
 
 Mauleverer. (Continuing^) And things have 
 been brought to this pass by two nations, highly 
 civilized. Oh, yes ! highly civilized ! For the 
 invaders have gone down into the depths of
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 99 
 
 things. They know exactly what are the bounds 
 of human knowledge. They have gone deeper 
 than Locke ever did. They have not only 
 discovered that it is impossible for the same 
 thing, at the same time, to be and not to be ; 
 but they know all about innate ideas, and 
 thoroughly understand the doctrine of contra- 
 dictory inconceivables. 
 
 Milverton. While you are about it, Mau- 
 leverer, you may as well say, for you will say 
 truly, that there is no branch of human know- 
 ledge to which this laborious and truth-loving 
 people have not added much. What then ! 
 
 Mauleverer. And, looking on, being perfectly 
 aware of the danger, there have been the other 
 wise nations of Europe this Europe, with its Re- 
 formation, and its Art of printing, and all the fine 
 things it has done and suffered since St. Peter 
 came, or did not come, to Rome with all their 
 knowledge, and all their wisdom, and yet not able 
 to prevent this culminating horror. 
 
 Milverton. As to " horror," I agree with 
 you ; but you have put it upon totally wrong 
 foundations. I don't care about Art, or Science, or 
 Literature, when you are considering human 
 suffering. The horror would be quite as great to
 
 ioo CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 me, if the beleaguered city did not contain one 
 work of Science, Literature, or Art. A human 
 being any human being is a far more beau- 
 tiful production than the finest work of Art. 
 
 Sir Arthur. No, no, Milverton, this is going 
 a little too far. The human beings may be 
 replaced, but the works of Art cannot. 
 
 Milverton (rather excitedly). I am astonished 
 at you, Sir Arthur. Just think for one moment 
 of an agonizing night of suffering passed by any 
 one wounded man, left on the field of battle. I 
 declare, I would purchase exemption from suffer- 
 ing for that one human being by the destruction 
 of the finest work of Art in the world. 
 
 Ellesmere. Really, Milverton, there are too 
 many of us upon the ground, at least of us men, 
 for there cannot be too many women. 
 
 Milverton. How can you talk such cruel 
 nonsense, Ellesmere ! Go to your Shakespeare. 
 Learn there what a human being is, or may be. 
 " How noble in reason ! how infinite in faculty ! in 
 form and moving how express and admirable! 
 in action how like an angel ! in apprehension how 
 like a god ! the beauty of the world ! the paragon 
 of animals ! " 
 
 Mauleverer. The fewer human beings, the
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 101 
 
 fewer miserable fools, hoping inane hopes, wish- 
 ing impossible wishes, endeavouring inconsistent 
 endeavours always duped from their cradles to 
 their graves the serfs of passion, the slaves of 
 circumstance, at best the tyrants of their fellow- 
 men. I prefer a great work of Art. 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. Really, Leonard, even I 
 think you make too much of human beings. 
 There is a something in a divine work of Art 
 which would compensate 
 
 [I do not like to continue the account of this 
 conversation, for Mr. Milverton, goaded on all 
 sides, got into one of those tremendous passions 
 in which he sometimes, but very rarely, indulges, 
 and said the most violent things against all of 
 us. At last he got up and went out of the room, 
 feeling, I suppose, that as a host he had not 
 maintained the reticence which a host should 
 practise, having said the strongest things in the 
 strongest language. Certainly he went out 
 making a playful remark; but it was bitter and 
 severe in its playfulness. He said, " I will not 
 stay any more with you wretches. You only put 
 me into a rage, which I know is very unbecoming. 
 I will go and talk with old John the gardener ; 
 and I do declare I believe that, in that somewhat
 
 102 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 sour, crabbed old man, vexed with rheumatism, 
 but whose nature has not been lowered by an 
 effeminate care for works of Art, I shall find 
 nobler and juster notions than in all you demi- 
 semi-cultivated people. You put me in mind 
 of the patricians of Rome, who could jeer, and 
 joke, and bet about the gladiatorial shows, un- 
 conscious of the infinite cruelty and hideous 
 indifference to human suffering they were mani- 
 festing." 
 
 There was an awkward silence for a minute 
 or two after Mr. Milverton left the room. Mrs. 
 Milverton also went away, evidently to soothe 
 her husband. Sir John Ellesmere broke the 
 silence.] 
 
 Ellesmere. Well, we have "been and gone 
 and took and done it," as the vulgar say. He 
 is a dangerous fellow to deal with, is Milverton. 
 You never know when you are touching him to 
 the quick. At last I did not dare to joke, or 
 I might have asked him whether I was worth 
 the " Venus de' Medici," and which of the two, 
 for the world's good, he would rather save from 
 destruction. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I am very sorry ; but you know 
 he does deceive us. In general he bears so
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 103 
 
 serenely with your sarcasms, Ellesmere, with my 
 fastidiousness, Mauleverer's misanthropy, and 
 our general impertinence and opposition, that one 
 is not prepared for these outbursts. 
 
 Ellesmere. Oh, you wicked Sandy ! Et tu 
 Brute ! You surely ought not to have told 
 the truth namely, that you thought the books 
 in the Paris Library more valuable than some 
 of the human beings. I am ashamed of you ! 
 
 Mr. Johnson. He never was cross with 
 me before. 
 
 Ellesmere (imitating Milverton). I am dis- 
 appointed with you, Johnson. There is an absence 
 of that generosity of sentiment which becomes 
 the young. From these hardened men of the 
 world, what can one expect but hardness ? But 
 I did think better things of you. That was what 
 he said, was it not ? 
 
 Now, I am the most unlucky of all of you; 
 for I really agreed with him. 
 
 Cranmer. Oh, oh ! 
 
 Ellesmere. Upon my word I did ; and, if 
 he would only have had patience, I should have 
 come round to his side. I don't care much about 
 works of Art. To tell the honest truth, I like 
 dogs and horses better.
 
 104 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 I will tell you what we will do. Milverton 
 is always abjectly humble and civil after one of 
 these outbursts. We will boldly renew the con- 
 versation at or after dinner. 
 
 Mauleverer. After dinner. There is a chance 
 of our having black-game for dinner. Mrs. Milver- 
 ton told me that some virtuous Scotch laird had 
 sent them some black-game the first of birds. If 
 the discussion should wax warm again, it will 
 spoil our dinner. 
 
 Ellesmere. This explains that whispering in 
 corners, of Mauleverer and Mrs. Milverton, which 
 I noticed this morning, and thought it boded ill 
 for Milverton's domestic peace. If he were here,, 
 poor fellow, he would dilate upon it as an instance 
 of the effect of culture. Mauleverer is the most 
 knowing man in culinary science ; and all the 
 women fear him, and look up to him accordingly. 
 When he is coming to dine with us, Lady Elles- 
 mere is more fussy than if she were about to- 
 receive seven dukes with their respective duchesses. 
 She even condescends to consult me about the 
 soups. And, let me tell you, I have invented 
 a soup for these great occasions, about the com- 
 position of which I will hold forth to you some 
 day. But now we must think of making our
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 105 
 
 peace with Milverton. It shall be after dinner, 
 as Mauleverer suggests, that we will resume our 
 wicked talk. Our fearlessness in renewing the 
 conversation will show Milverton that we have 
 not been hurt by all he has said. I shall go over 
 to his side ; for I assure you I am of his way 
 of thinking; and it will all end as happily as 
 the third volume of a novel. Only you must not 
 give way too much, or too soon, but must hold 
 for a time to your wicked opinions touching the 
 supremacy of Art, Science, and Literature, and the 
 insignificance of human beings. Otherwise he 
 will see through our device. 
 
 [What a kind-hearted fellow Sir John Elles- 
 mere really is ! He was quite unhappy, as I 
 found afterwards in a walk I had with him, at 
 Mr. Milverton's having been put out in this way. 
 Sir John Ellesmere did contrive that the con- 
 versation on this topic should be resumed. It 
 happened, just as he had prognosticated ; and the 
 conversation proceeded in the most playful way ; 
 Mr. Milverton, however, protesting that all of 
 us, except his good friend Ellesmere, did not 
 make enough account of human beings. He con- 
 cluded, I remember, by a quotation from a Scotch 
 song, which has these words in it, "And sair
 
 106 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 she lightlies me." " Ah ! " he said, " you sairly 
 lightly the ineffable worth, and the ' potentiality,' 
 as Dr. Johnson would have said, of any human 
 being, a creature not made of stone and paint, 
 that is to live for ever and for ever."]
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 
 
 CHAPTER III. 
 
 [THE following chapter is very brief; but I think 
 it furnishes more materials for thought than any 
 one we have lately had ; and, although it deals 
 chiefly with war, and especially with the present 
 war r it certainly furnishes an illustration of that 
 subject, for which Mr. Milverton and I have, 
 from the beginning of these conversations, in vain 
 endeavoured to get an uninterrupted hearing 
 namely, general culture. 
 
 Nothing surprises me more for I am, com- 
 paratively, an ignorant and ill-read young man 
 than to find how subjects connected with the 
 events of the present day, may always meet with 
 illustration and enlightenment from the labours of 
 some of the great writers of the past. 
 
 However, I must not take up the. time of my 
 readers by . lucubrations of my own, but must
 
 io8 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 proceed at once to set before them the result 
 of my notes of this conversation, which began 
 thus. ] 
 
 Milverton. There is a question, in reference 
 to war, which I should greatly like to discuss 
 with you. Without, however, wishing to say 
 anything rude or impertinent, I hardly think that 
 you will appreciate the full importance of this 
 question. Some of you, for instance, Ellesmere, 
 will only make fun of what I say ; and I do not 
 think that any of you, except perhaps Sir Arthur, 
 will enter into the subject heartily. If a certain 
 excellent Florentine gentleman, who was born 
 about four hundred years ago, were alive and in 
 this room, I cannot imagine a greater intellectual 
 pleasure than discussing the question with him. 
 He, too, would have delighted in such discourse ; 
 would soon have taken the main part of it out of 
 my incapable hands, and would have woven it 
 into one of his own discourses of transcendent 
 sagacity. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I suppose that this " excellent 
 Florentine gentleman " is no other than Niccolo 
 Machiavelli. 
 
 Milverton. The same the man who has,
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 109 
 
 perhaps, been more mis-represented than any 
 other man that has ever lived. 
 
 Ellesmere. Doesn't he (I mean Milverton, not 
 Machiavelli) love a paradox ? 
 
 Mauleverer. I am with you, Milverton, before 
 hearing what you have to say ; for Machiavelli is 
 a great friend of mine. I have not read much of 
 him ; but what I have read, convinces me that he 
 had penetrated into, and thoroughly understood, 
 the depths of human baseness. 
 
 Milverton. And the heights of human good- 
 ness. 
 
 Cranmer. I know nothing about Machiavelli ; 
 but I have always understood that he was most 
 manifestly an emanation from the Evil-one ; and, 
 for my part, I have seldom found that the 
 universal opinion of mankind is a wrong one. 
 I have heard, but I dare say it is a mere popular 
 theory, that our expression, " Old Nick," was 
 derived from Niccolo Machiavelli. 
 
 Ellesmere. I propose something. Before 
 entering upon the Machiavellian subject, which 
 Milverton, with a sublime conceit, intimates that 
 we are hardly worthy to discuss, let us hear 
 something about Machiavelli himself from Mil- 
 verton, his chief admirer and friend.
 
 I io CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Milverton. I am quite willing to endeavour 
 to make you appreciate, as far as you are 
 capable of appreciating, the merits of this extra- 
 ordinary man. 
 
 Now, when any one is very strongly con- 
 vinced that he is right in any matter, even if 
 he is not a sporting man, he is very prone to 
 offer a bet upon the subject, as the most 
 undoubted way of showing his sincerity. Now 
 I will bet you, Ellesmere 
 
 Ellesmere. What shall we bet ? I vote it 
 shall be a new collar for dear Fairy. Her 
 present one is very shabby ; and I know she 
 feels ashamed of it. 
 
 Milverton. Good. I'll bet you, that if you 
 will give me ten minutes time to look over my 
 copy of Machiavelli, I will produce a number of 
 passages from his writings which will compel you, 
 if you are a just man, to admit that they have the 
 most clear bearing upon the present state of the 
 war between the French and the Germans, and 
 that these passages are pregnant with wise 
 suggestions to both sides. 
 
 Ellesmere. Done ! 
 
 Milverton. And, mark you, I am not pre- 
 pared for a bet. I had not been thinking of
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. in 
 
 Machiavelli till this conversation began, and I 
 have not looked into his pages for two or three 
 years. Give me the book, Johnson. 
 
 [Hereupon Mr. Milverton took his Machiavelli, 
 and went out of the room. The conversation 
 during his absence was of a desultory kind, being 
 chiefly enlivened by Ellesmere's saying that, after 
 all, he had a great sympathy with Machiavelli ; as 
 many other great and good persons had been 
 grievously misunderstood and calumniated for 
 instance, he himself, (Sir John Ellesmere,) the 
 Count von Bismarck, Nero, Henry VIII., and 
 last, not least, Lucrezia Borgia. It must not be 
 imagined that Nero, being mentioned immediately 
 after Count von Bismarck, was intended for an 
 uncomplimentary allusion, for Sir John Ellesmere 
 has always maintained, and in this he has been 
 supported by Mr. Milverton, that Nero has been 
 greatly calumniated, and was, as he says, not a 
 bad sort of fellow. Then Mr. Milverton entered 
 the room.] 
 
 Milverton. I feel quite confident that I shall 
 win. I will tell you what I propose to do. I 
 will merely read the headings of some of the 
 chapters. Then, if you wish it, I will give 
 extracts from any chapter that may seem to you
 
 112 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 to bear closely upon the subject of the con- 
 troversy. 
 
 " Se le fortezze, e molte altre cose che spesse 
 volte i principi fanno, sono utili o dannose." 
 
 " Whether fortresses, and many other things 
 which princes frequently make, are useful or 
 hurtful." 
 
 "/ danari non sono il nervo delta guerra, 
 secondo che e la comune opinione" 
 
 " Riches are not the sinews of war, as accord- 
 ing to the general opinion they are supposed 
 to be." 
 
 " Che gli uomini che nascono in una provincia, 
 osservano per tutti i tempi quasi quella medesima 
 natura" 
 
 " That the men who are born in the same 
 province, preserve throughout all time nearly the 
 same nature." 
 
 Hitherto the headings of the chapters have 
 been somewhat general in their application. We 
 are now coming to close quarters. 
 
 " Come un capitano prudente debbe imporre ogni 
 necessita di combattere ai suoi soldati, e a quelli 
 degdnimici tor la" 
 
 "How a prudent general ought to impose 
 every necessity for fighting upon his own soldiers,
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 113 
 
 and to take away necessity for fighting from the 
 soldiers of the enemy." 
 
 Cranmer. Don't be angry with me for 
 interrupting, Milverton ; but I don't understand. 
 
 Milverton. Nor did I thoroughly until I 
 glanced into the chapter, while I was in the other 
 room. It means Always have somewhat of the 
 pressure of necessity, as an impulse to your troops 
 when you make them fight, and as a reason for 
 your doing so. And especially, do not give your 
 enemy the advantage which arises from that 
 ultimate form of necessity, despair. 
 
 Is not this good advice ? If you could but 
 see how he works it out, you would certainly say 
 so. I feel though, I have not done justice to this 
 chapter. Let me try again ; he means, let there 
 be a reason for your fighting manifest to your 
 own troops a convincing reason of necessity 
 why you should fight then and there. In short, 
 always have necessity on your side. Observe 
 how the contrary course of conduct has acted 
 upon the French troops during the present war. 
 There have been innumerable marchings and 
 counter-marchings : no reason why the battle 
 should have been here, and not there ; now, and 
 not then. That is what demoralizes troops, as 
 
 8
 
 114 
 
 Machiavelli perceived. Observe how large his 
 maxim is : what a number of cases it would com- 
 prehend. It is getting those emphatic words "you 
 must " upon your side ; and contriving that the 
 enemy is not driven into a corner ; but has every 
 opportunity for vacillation; that there should be 
 no " you must " for him to say to his troops. 
 
 Again, "La cagione perche i Francesi sono 
 stati^ e sono ancora giudicati nelle zuffe da principio 
 piu che uomini, e dipoi meno che feminine" 
 
 " The reason , why the French have been, 
 and are now, accounted in warlike contests, to 
 be at first more than men, and afterwards less 
 than women." 
 
 Sir Arthur. Pardon me, Milverton; but I 
 do not think it very generous of you to quote this 
 chapter. Are you no> too, inclined to lean to the 
 strongest ? 
 
 Milverton. No, my dear Sir Arthur, I am 
 not. I never would have quoted the heading 
 of this chapter, at least at the present time, unless 
 I had found in the body of the chapter that 
 Machiavelli had maintained of the French that, 
 " with ordinary skill, the French ardour in war 
 might be kept up to the end in the same measure 
 as at the beginning."
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 115 
 
 " Ma non e per questo che questa loro natura, 
 che li fa feroci nel principio, non si potesse in modo 
 con r arte ordinare, che la li mantenesse feroci 
 infino nel /' ultimo" 
 
 Now I come to the best of all, at least to the 
 most applicable at the present moment. 
 
 " Ai principi e alle repubbliche prudenti debbe 
 bastare il vincere ; perche il piu delle volte quando 
 non basti, si perde." 
 
 " Prudent princes and commonwealths ought 
 to be satisfied with victory ; for most times when 
 victory does not suffice, it is lost." 
 
 Sir Arthur. This is very good indeed. I 
 can imagine, even from my little knowledge of 
 Machiavelli, what an excellent chapter he would 
 write on this heading. 
 
 Ellesmere. I don't rely upon imagination : 
 let us hear some of it The thing certainly 
 promises well. 
 
 Milverton. It is indeed a wonderful chapter. 
 He shows, by examples, how unwise it is for the 
 victors to make too much of their victory ; for 
 the vanquished, to make too little of their defeat. 
 I declare 
 
 Ellesmere. Say " solemnly," after the fashion 
 of Mauleverer.
 
 n6 CONVERSATIONS ON IV A R 
 
 Milverton. Well, then, I declare solemnly I 
 believe that if Count von Bismarck and M. Jules 
 Favre, who are probably rather busy men just 
 at present, would, for only one day, forsake all 
 other business, and shut themselves up to study 
 this chapter of Machiavelli, it would be the best 
 thing for the world that could happen. 
 
 Ellesmere. But give us some of the examples, 
 Milverton. 
 
 Milverton. I will try to do so ; but I feel 
 keenly how poorly I render into English his con- 
 summate Italian. However, I will give it in the 
 most literal manner I can. " Hannibal, after he 
 had routed the Romans at Cannae, commanded his 
 orators at Carthage to announce the victory, and 
 to ask for supplies. It was argued this way and 
 that, in the Carthaginian Senate, as to what should 
 be done. Hanno, an old and prudent citizen of 
 Carthage, counselled that this victory should be 
 used wisely; namely, to make peace with the 
 Romans, it being possible for the Carthaginians 
 to have peace now, as he said, with honourable 
 conditions, as they had gained a battle ; and that 
 they should not wait to have to make peace after 
 another battle, which might be a defeat. For the 
 object, he argued, of the Carthaginians should be to
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 117 
 
 show the Romans that they were able to deal with 
 them; and, having gained a victory, they should 
 have a care not to lose the benefit of it, merely 
 for the hope of gaining some greater battle." 
 
 Now, my good friends, just recollect what 
 a victory Cannae was ! I think the foregoing 
 passage might be of use to Count von Bismarck. 
 Now, for M. Jules Favre. 
 
 Machiavelli takes the siege of Tyre as an 
 instance of the folly of refusing terms of peace 
 offered by the prevailing side the inhabitants 
 of that city having most unwisely refused the 
 conditions of peace which Alexander the Great 
 had offered to them. The following is the 
 passage : 
 
 " Therefore, princes cannot commit a greater 
 error when they are attacked (and when the 
 assault is made by assailants who are far more 
 puissant than they are), than to refuse all terms 
 of accommodation, especially when these terms 
 are offered by the enemy ; because never will 
 such low terms be offered to them, which may 
 not be in some respect advantageous for the 
 party which accepts these terms, who will thus 
 be sharers of the victory gained over them- 
 selves."
 
 Ii8 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 How profound those last words are ! I have 
 paraphrased rather than translated. He writes 
 with such fearful brevity and compression, that 
 one is sometimes obliged to do so. I will give 
 the words to you in the original : "e vi sara 
 parte delta sua vittoria^ You see that the prince 
 who is wise enough to accept the first terms 
 offered to him, has, according to Machiavelli, a 
 part in the victory gained over himself. Now I 
 want to be allowed to give you another passage 
 which seems to me singularly applicable to the 
 present state of affairs. I am afraid you are 
 getting tired of Machiavelli. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Not a bit. I could listen to 
 these extracts and your comments on them for 
 a very long time. They interest me exceed- 
 ingly. 
 
 Ellesmere. I could not listen for a very long 
 time, but I am quite willing to hear one or two 
 more. 
 
 Milverton. I will not molest you with more 
 than one ; here it is. 
 
 " Che lo assaltare una citta disunita, per occu- 
 parla mediante la sua disunione, e partita con- 
 trario" 
 
 " That to besiege a disunited city, in order to
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 119 
 
 occupy it by means of its disunion, is an unwise 
 course." 
 
 You will admit, I believe, that it is probable 
 that not a little wisdom bearing upon the present 
 siege of Paris may be extracted from this chapter. 
 Machiavelli gives several examples to prove the 
 truth of his assertion, and concludes by adducing 
 the contests of Philip Visconti, Duke of Milan, 
 with the Florentines, in which contests he 
 always relied much upon their disunion. At last, 
 grieving over these military undertakings of his, 
 he exclaimed that the factions of Florence had 
 made him expend uselessly " two millions of 
 gold." I suppose he means two millions of 
 ducats. 
 
 Ellesmere. Come here, Fairy. No : you 
 needn't kiss me so much. I am not proud of 
 being kissed, even by the most charming of 
 dogs. She shall have a new collar, she shall ; 
 and without any expense to her master. I must 
 own, Milverton, that this Machiavelli of yours 
 appears to be a very fine fellow, and that his 
 writings, as is the case with the writings of all 
 the greatest men, have a perennial meaning and 
 application. Now I have given up handsomely, 
 have I not ? Your success in this bet has made
 
 120 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 me anxious to hear the question which you were 
 about to put before us at the beginning of this 
 conversation, but which you thought we were 
 scarcely worthy to hear, and which you longed 
 to discuss with your beloved Florentine. 
 
 Milverton. No ; I decline to do so now. 
 It has really been a great exertion to me, in 
 this short time, to renew my acquaintance with 
 Machiavelli ; and to make up my mind, without 
 a moment's hesitation in each particular case, as 
 to what passages I should give you, to prove the 
 point I desired to prove. I believe, if we looked 
 into the causes of our fatigue on any given day, 
 we should find that it depended more upon the 
 number of decisions we had come to than upon 
 all the rest of our work. 
 
 Ellesmere. Milverton cannot be tired, but he 
 must fatigue himself still further by finding out 
 good reasons why he should be tired. For my 
 own part, I am always tired of severe discussion, 
 and am ready for muscular exercise. I am a 
 muscular Christian, if I am worthy of the name 
 of Christian at all. How I wish we were at Eton 
 again, Milverton ! and could go leaping over 
 Chalvey ditch with long poles, as we used to 
 do when we had exerted our minds to the
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 121 
 
 utmost stretch by writing splendid copies of 
 verses upon the theme 
 
 Dulce ridentem Lalagen amabo, 
 Dulce loquentem. 
 
 Men are such fools not to keep up their boyish 
 sports. However, Fairy and I are just as lithe 
 and lissom as we were when we were both young 
 puppies are we not, Fairy ? 
 
 [So saying, Sir John leaped out of the study 
 window, followed by Fairy, and neither of them 
 was seen any more until dinner-time. And thus 
 the conversation ended ; for none of us ever 
 attempt to keep up continued conversation when 
 the provoking Ellesmere has left us, whom 
 Mr. Mauleverer, delighting in culinary similes, 
 always likens to first-rate Ceylon curry-powder, 
 which, as he says, "can give significance and 
 flavour even to the poorest and most contemptible 
 of edible animals the domestic rabbit."]
 
 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 CHAPTER IV.* 
 
 [SUBSEQUENTLY to the conversation in the first 
 chapter, grave events had occurred. The battle 
 of Sedan had been fought ; the French army had 
 capitulated ; Louis Napoleon had surrendered him- 
 self; and the Republic had been proclaimed at Paris. 
 
 It was when talking of the foregoing remark- 
 able incidents that the following conversation 
 arose.] 
 
 Milverton. There are two things in the 
 world that infuriate me. One is, cruelty to 
 animals ; or, to extend the idea, cruelty to the 
 unresisting, the other is, the invasion of a 
 legislative assembly by a mob. I have no 
 patience with either of these enormities, and 
 would do anything in the world to prevent them. 
 
 * It will be obvious to the reader that this conversation succeeded 
 the one given in the first chapter ; but I published the others 
 out of their order, thinking that Machiavelli's wise sayings might 
 possibly be of some use at the present moment.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 123 
 
 Sir Arthur. At Paris it is the old, old story 
 over again. A mob being where it should not 
 be, has been the cause of most of the political 
 misfortunes of France. 
 
 Ellesmere. Yes, I hate a mob. It is a 
 creature that has no respect for lawyers. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Consider what a legislative 
 assembly is ! The very essence of its being 
 the reason of its existence is, that there should 
 be deliberation and resolve, freed from all influ- 
 ence of force. It is a supreme effort of man- 
 kind to deal with things reasonably. 
 
 Ellesmere. The rooks and crows understand 
 this, and conduct their solemn assemblages with- 
 out employing beak or claw. 
 
 Milverton. Sir Arthur has told us to con- 
 sider what a legislative assembly is. I ask you 
 to consider what a mob is ; and, to tell the truth, 
 I doubt whether any of you have thoroughly 
 considered what a mob is. The main horror 
 of it to me consists in its being a chance assem- 
 blage of persons who will never meet together 
 again. I wish I could explain to you all that 
 I see in this important fact. If the mob consisted 
 of the same persons who should meet on various 
 occasions, it might be trained and educated;
 
 124 CONVERSATIONS ON IV AR 
 
 might appreciate the consequences of its deeds ; 
 might have remorse ; might undo what it has 
 done. But, no : collected together in the most 
 haphazard fashion, it enters sacred places where 
 it should never be seen ; changes, in a few 
 moments of fury, the fate of nations ; and then 
 vanishes, as it were, into space, having generally 
 accomplished an amount of evil which it takes 
 a generation or two to reverse. 
 
 Ellesmere. Upon my word, that does put 
 a new idea before one, though all that Milverton 
 has said is as obvious as the light of day. But 
 I do perceive that I have always viewed the 
 mob as if there were unity in the creature ; as 
 if it were the same mob, here and there, yester- 
 day and to-day, instead of its being a " fortuitous 
 concurrence of accidental atoms " which are never 
 again reunited, any more than are the constituent 
 atoms of a cloud that has descended in rain. 
 Now if the real mob were like the stage mob, 
 which is what Milverton would desire, that is, 
 a number of persons who are sometimes a mob 
 of fisherman, sometimes a mob of peasants, some- 
 times a mob of outlaws, sometimes a mob of 
 ladies and gentlemen, but always one and the 
 same mob, they might be drilled and instructed,
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 125 
 
 might have a soul and a conscience, and might be 
 a creature amenable to reason. 
 
 Sir Arthiir. Familiarity renders us dull 
 and unappreciative of the wonderful thing that 
 the structure of civil society is ; tens of thousands 
 of people, as in our greatest towns, moving about 
 in an orderly fashion, almost as orderly as bees ; 
 and certainly not more than one man in each ten 
 thousand, throughout the day, endeavouring to 
 carry his object, whatever it may be, by pure 
 force. 
 
 Milverton. It is an immense result the 
 result of profound thought and continued labour 
 of untold generations. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Yes : and when you have mob 
 rule, you resolve, for the moment, all this splendid 
 fabric of civilization into its original elements. 
 
 Ellesmere. King Mob is the most detestable 
 power that has existed in the world, always ex- 
 cepting the Inquisition of former days. And, 
 strange to say, there has been a singular similarity 
 in the proceedings of both of these iniquitous 
 powers, although they seem outwardly so much 
 to differ. 
 
 Cranmer. Well, hitherto, I have agreed with 
 every word that has been said about mobs ; but
 
 126 
 
 this last saying of Ellesmere's does astonish me. 
 For the life of me, I cannot see what likeness 
 there can be between a mob and the Inquisition. 
 
 Ellesmere. But there is a likeness. No great 
 thinker, Master Cranmer, is understood at once. 
 Kant is not ; Hegel is not ; and many a writer of 
 the present day is somewhat obscure on the first 
 reading. But I will expound. Did not the 
 Inquisition act suddenly ? Does not the mob act 
 suddenly ? When you were seized by the Inqui- 
 sition, did you know who was your accuser, or 
 of what you were accused ? And when you are 
 confronted by a mob, does not some obscure 
 person, name unknown, and who probably knows 
 nothing of you, shout out " a la lanterne ! " and 
 you are strung up immediately ? There are 
 certainly trifling differences, chiefly of mere forms 
 and ceremonies, between the action of the mob 
 and that of the Inquisition ; but substantially 
 their proceedings are of a very similar character. 
 In both cases the charge against you is almost 
 incomprehensible. I am sure you will see I have 
 proved my point. 
 
 If it had not been for this fellow, Cranmer, 
 who is so unlike me, always dissenting from what 
 everybody says, our conversation would have
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE, 127 
 
 been a wonderful and beautiful instance of uni- 
 formity of thinking. 
 
 Milverton. I know that Ellesmere is secretly 
 very tired of this uniformity ; and, therefore, if 
 you please, we will change the subject ; and you 
 will, perhaps, allow me to say something which I 
 had intended to say about culture. 
 
 Sir Arthur. No, Milverton, our minds are, 
 for the moment, wholly given to war. Say now 
 anything that you have to say about that 
 
 Milverton. There is no subject to which I 
 have given so much thought in the course of my 
 life as that of war, or rather the prevention of war. 
 I have turned it over in my mind in every 
 imaginable way ; and, sometimes, the result of 
 long thought about it has been only increased 
 perplexity. It is not of much use talking about 
 the horrors of war-^-at any rate, not at the time 
 it breaks out, or after it has broken out. One 
 goes on, though, talking about these horrors, 
 just as one fires from a fort upon the outposts, 
 not from any hope of seriously checking the 
 enemy, but merely to show that one is on the 
 alert, and thoroughly alive to the situation. 
 
 But what one wants to get at are the principles, 
 the ideas, the animus, and the peculiar conditions
 
 128 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 of circumstances, which one foresees must lead 
 to war. Of course, if one could by any talking 
 or writing affect the primary questions, such as 
 those which relate to the principles upon which 
 men act, one would do the greatest good. But this 
 is an effort which requires long periods of time. 
 
 Ellesmere. Please give us an instance, Milver- 
 ton. You know my horror of the abstract. 
 
 Milverton. The putting down of false ideas 
 of glory would illustrate what I mean. This is 
 clerical business ; but, somehow or other, the 
 clergy do not seem to do it. 
 
 Cranmer. I should like to have an account 
 of the secondary causes, those which relate to 
 what Milverton somewhat vaguely calls the con- 
 ditions of circumstances which cause war. 
 
 Milverton. If you will all be very good and 
 attentive, and if Ellesmere will promise not to 
 interrupt me for an interval of six consecutive 
 minutes, I will endeavour to show you what I 
 mean in this respect. 
 
 Ellesmere. Done ! I believe Milverton would 
 like to have me held with a cord round my 
 tongue, as if I were a refractory horse about to 
 be shod. 
 
 Milverton I will divide the subject carefully.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 129 
 
 But first I must notice that all endeavours to 
 prevent war, whether relating to primary or 
 secondary causes, depend upon increased culture 
 of the minds of men. 
 
 1. This great argument must be insisted upon, 
 namely, that the results of war are never, or at 
 least, hardly ever, what the promoters of war 
 intend or hope for. 
 
 It assumes as a fact that which is well known 
 to historians : I doubt, however, whether any 
 historian has adequately exemplified it by the 
 innumerable examples that might be given. And, 
 comparatively speaking, it is of little use that 
 historians alone should be cognizant of this fact. 
 It should be well known to the million ; and, 
 among the million, to the many statesmen who 
 often act as if they were entirely ignorant of 
 the fact. 
 
 2. It should be one of the great efforts of the 
 world to settle, in times of peace, those unsettled 
 questions of diplomacy which are nearly sure, at 
 some time or other, to lead to war. 
 
 I should not wonder if some future historian 
 were to prove that the Schleswig-Holstein ques- 
 tion was the cause of the whole of the present 
 turmoil and misery. 
 
 9
 
 130 
 
 It is a witty saying, attributed to Lord Palmer- 
 ston, that there was only one man in Europe who 
 understood the Schleswig-Holstein question ; and 
 that he did not understand it. Now, what is the 
 use of diplomacy, if it cannot settle these ques- 
 tions ? 
 
 3. The craving for increased territory should 
 be restrained. 
 
 If there is any signal benefit for mankind 
 which can be effected by increase of culture, it 
 is this : that the wild desire which exists in some 
 nations for increase of territory, may be checked 
 by the thinkers of the nation. Can it be said 
 of any ruler, or set of rulers, in any country we 
 know of, that they succeed in governing well the 
 people of their own country ? And why they 
 should wish for any more people to govern, sur- 
 passes my comprehension. 
 
 At present, we are the only nation that has 
 even a dim apprehension of the wisdom of this 
 self-restraint. 
 
 4. The ways of peace should be made inter- 
 esting. 
 
 This seems very vague; but I contend that 
 the project has a great deal in it. One of the 
 main reasons why we British people are averse
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 131 
 
 from war, is, that civil life is exceedingly interest- 
 ing to us, and that all our people partake of it. 
 For example, the man who is devoted to educa- 
 tion, or to sanitary reform, or who is anxious to 
 increase the political force of any particular class 
 in the State, has enough upon his mind to occupy 
 all his energies. War is a horrid nuisance to 
 him, and a terrible interference with the mode of 
 action he loves best. 
 
 5. Reward and Jwnour civilians. 
 
 This again may seem to have but little to do 
 with the main subject. It has, though. It would 
 be a most prudent thing, with a view to checking 
 warlike impulses, to give rewards and honours 
 for the great actions in civil life. At present, 
 I suppose you will all admit that rewards for 
 civil service are very rare, and rarely made with 
 judgment. 
 
 6. In the affairs of other nations, intervene 
 very early, or not at all. 
 
 I suppose you will all agree to this. There 
 is an immense deal to be done by early interven- 
 tion ; and, if you ever mean to take any part 
 in what may seem to be an affair concerning other 
 nations only, but which, in reality, is almost always 
 your own affair as well as theirs especially if
 
 132 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 they are neighbouring nations you must inter- 
 vene early. At its outset, the greatest river can 
 be easily bridged over ; but never so easily after- 
 wards. 
 
 Ellesmere. You have exceeded your six 
 minutes, Milverton ; but I myself held the rope 
 round my tongue. I must now, however, speak 
 out. One of your six maxims had reference to 
 checking the wish for territory. Your statement 
 of the case was not fair ; at any rate, not altogether 
 fair. The aggrandizing rulers of nations do not 
 wish for territory because they want to have more 
 people to govern, but because they wish to be 
 able to govern in peace the people who are 
 already under their sway. That would be their 
 statement of the case ; and you must meet it. 
 
 Milverton. I do meet it by all the other 
 suggestions I have made. Besides, you know, if 
 we are to go on for ever preparing warlike means 
 in order to ensure the ends of peace, there is no 
 prospect of improvement for the world in this 
 matter. Whatever I, considering myself for the 
 moment a warlike nation, say or do, I can always 
 maintain that it is with the object of preventing 
 war being made upon me. 
 
 Now I will tell you what is my ultimate
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 133 
 
 thought on the whole matter; and that is, that 
 there will never be assured peace for the world, 
 until two or three of the great nations resolve 
 to take the risk of preparing for peace instead of 
 for war. 
 
 Mauleverer. This is simply Utopian. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I cannot go so far as Milverton ; 
 but this I will say, I think that we, and other 
 nations of Europe, have been very remiss in not 
 laying hold of any opportunities for entertaining 
 the proposition of something like general disarma- 
 ment. I was almost alone in the political world, 
 when I thought we ought to have welcomed the 
 proposal of a congress, which was made by Louis 
 Napoleon some time ago. 
 
 Milverton. I was with you, Sir Arthur. 
 
 Sir Arthur. It may seem very hopeless, but 
 no opportunity of that kind should ever be lost. 
 I cannot but think that some good must come 
 eventually from any meeting of European states- 
 men who should meet together to consider these 
 great questions of peace and war. 
 
 Milverton. Yes. 
 
 Cranmer. I say " yes " also. 
 
 Mauleverer. And I do not say no. 
 
 Milverton. Again, here is an amount of
 
 134 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 unanimity which must be very trying to Elles- 
 mere. I will, therefore, venture to introduce a 
 topic respecting which I have no hope of there 
 being, amongst us, any uniformity of thinking. 
 Indeed, I know I shall be in a woeful minority. 
 I really do not know that there is any human 
 being who agrees with me in what I am going to 
 state as my opinion. 
 
 Cranmer. Ellesmere will agree if he possibly 
 can. It would be absolute joy to him, I know, 
 to be in a minority of two against the rest of the 
 eight hundred millions of the world. 
 
 Ellesmere. Thank you, thank you, Cranmer, 
 for your favourable opinion of me. I believe, my 
 good friend, you are a determined free-trader. 
 Do you suppose that free trade was advocated 
 at first by more than a minority of two ? But 
 proceed, Milverton ; let us hear this wonderful 
 heresy. 
 
 Milverton. I cannot admire the spirit of 
 agglomeration which prevails among mankind 
 at present. 
 
 Ellesmere. Somewhat vague, this ! 
 
 Milverton. For instance, I do not see the 
 advantage of great States ; I do not see the 
 advantage of collecting together all the people
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 135 
 
 that speak the same language, into one nation- 
 ality. I do not believe this collectiveness tends 
 to civilization, or to prevent war. It tends to 
 uniformity ; whereas I think civilization is pro- 
 moted by diversity. I have not seen that the 
 greatest things have been done by the largest 
 States. In fact, I think there is a danger of 
 bigness being supposed to be greatness. 
 
 Ellesmere. I have often heard you allude to 
 such subjects ; but I have never really thought 
 about them myself. Having no opinion of my 
 own, I am quite willing to be upon your side 
 for a consideration. Stop that breakfast-bell of 
 yours ; I hate the cross, clanging, peremptory 
 noise of bells. Stop it, I say, for only three 
 mornings, and I will fight your battle like a man 
 and a brother. 
 
 Mauleverer. I will be on your side, too, 
 Milverton ; but, without demanding any fee. I 
 have told you, until I am weary of mentioning 
 the fact, that man is a wretched creature, placed 
 amidst deplorable circumstances, and that you 
 cannot make much of him whether he belongs to 
 a small state or a big one, to a small town or a 
 huge metropolis ; but I should think there is 
 more certainty of the fermentation of folly, the
 
 136 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 more you agglomerate people, to use Milverton's 
 word; and that foolish ideas are more likely to 
 reach their consummation of folly in action, the 
 larger the number of people who entertain these 
 ideas. 
 
 Ellesmere. Having on our side Milverton, 
 who is so eminently practical, and never led 
 away by enthusiasm Mauleverer, whose loving 
 insight into human nature must make him take 
 a wise view of all human affairs and Ellesmere, 
 that fair, impartial, and unprejudiced man, who 
 is always willing to do the best he can for his 
 fee we must prevail. We three against the 
 world in talk, I say. And so, come on. 
 
 Milverton. I think that my American friends 
 are very wrong in the view they take of this 
 matter : they have a juvenile love for territorial 
 acquisition. Surely they are big enough to be 
 content with what they have, and may now think 
 about making themselves as pleasant as they are 
 useful to the rest of the world. 
 
 I cannot see the force of the argument, that 
 people who speak the same language, must 
 necessarily be agglomerated together. I do not 
 find in language such a bond as that. Surely 
 there are peoples who differ intensely from one
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 137 
 
 another in all that concerns community of thought 
 and action, who yet speak the same language. 
 
 Then, again, do you suppose that the largest 
 States always make the wisest laws ; and that 
 extent of territory confers especial wisdom on the 
 ruling persons therein ? 
 
 Ellesmere. Just the contrary, I think. The 
 larger the territory, the less time can be given for 
 attention to any part of it. There is no time 
 for judicious legislation. If we ever fall as a 
 nation, it will be from too much pressure of 
 business on our hands. We have so much to do 
 with Ireland, with India, with our colonies, that it 
 is hard work to find time for attending to those 
 legislative measures which would greatly benefit 
 our own people. 
 
 I think I have followed pretty well upon the 
 side which I have taken up for hire. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Allow me to say a word. Both 
 you and Milverton have chosen to omit one very 
 important element of welfare to a large State : 
 namely, that there is a greater choice of fit persons 
 to govern. 
 
 Ellesmere. Now, though there is something 
 in this argument, can you really maintain, Sir 
 Arthur, that, in any great State you know of, much
 
 138 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 advantage is taken of this opportunity for large' 
 and varied selection ? 
 
 Sir Arthur. Not all the advantage that 
 might be taken ; but some advantage certainly. 
 
 Ellesmere. In a State consisting of three or 
 four millions of people such, for instance, as 
 Saxony do you not suppose that there is a suffi- 
 cient number of persons to be found, capable of 
 filling well the highest offices of Government ? 
 
 Sir Arthur. Yes ; but assuredly there is not 
 such a choice as in such a nation as ours. 
 
 Ellesmere. Well, let that be granted for a 
 moment. Still, will not the ministry of the 
 smaller power, having so much less to attend to, 
 be able to conduct its affairs better than they are 
 conducted in the larger State with the slightly 
 superior ministry ? However, this is a point 
 which admits of diverse opinion ; and I do not 
 pretend that what I have said about it is con- 
 clusive. 
 
 Milverton. I insist upon this point : namely 
 that variety in Government is a great advantage 
 to the world. Now, put an extreme case. Imagine 
 all Europe under the sway of one Government, I 
 do not believe this would be otherwise than a 
 great detriment to the progress of civilization.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 139 
 
 Then, as regards another point ; I admit that 
 you have a larger choice of governing men in a 
 great country ; but practically the choice is more at 
 haphazard ; and less is known about the capacity 
 of individuals than is known in a smaller State. 
 
 Again, I am persuaded that for the advance- 
 ment of Literature and Science there is an advan- 
 tage which belongs to smaller States. The 
 current of thought does not set in one way when 
 there are many States in the civilized world. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I don't believe that Government 
 has much effect in any way upon the progress of 
 Literature, Art, or Science. 
 
 Cranmer. There I differ from you, Sir 
 Arthur. 
 
 Ellesmere. What, Cranmer on our side ! I 
 shall go over to the other. 
 
 Cranmer. I do think that Government can 
 very much promote Science. It is very good of 
 me to say this, and to confess to you that when I 
 was Secretary of the Treasury there was nothing 
 I detested more than to receive a deputation of 
 scientific men, as I generally came over to their 
 way of thinking, though I had to resist them 
 stoutly. 
 
 Ellesmere. You will never be Secretary of
 
 140 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 the Treasury again, if you allow this peccant 
 disposition of yours be known to your chiefs. 
 
 Milverton. \ began by telling you that I 
 should be alone in this discussion. Ellesmere 
 and Mauleverer have kindly arranged themselves 
 on my side ; but I am going to say something 
 now which will disgust my allies. I hold that at 
 some future time, perhaps not a very distant one, 
 there will be a great change of thought in the 
 world as regards this question, and that separation 
 rather than agglomeration will be the aim of some 
 future age. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Restore the Heptarchy ! 
 
 Milverton. Not exactly that. At present 
 the pendulum is going very far in one direction ; 
 it will, by-and-by, swing as far to the other. 
 Communities will endeavour to separate a little. 
 Can there be a more dangerous associate for a 
 town than a fortress ? Future towns will avoid 
 placing themselves in juxtaposition to a fortress. 
 I mean that remark chiefly to apply as a meta- 
 phor. For example, seats of Government will 
 not always be placed in the metropolis. Therein 
 the Americans have been much wiser than Euro- 
 pean nations. Decentralization will more and 
 more prevail. It will be found out that monster
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 141 
 
 towns are very difficult to deal with, as regards 
 some of the principal objects of civilized life. It 
 will also be discovered, that the most refined 
 pleasures need not be absent from towns that are 
 comparatively small. Dramatic talent, and, in- 
 deed, artistic talent of all kinds, will find its 
 account in comparative dispersion. 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. I do believe you are quite 
 right, Leonard. 
 
 ELlesmere. Lady Ellesmere has visions of a 
 state of things in some small happy town, where 
 there will be only one lawyer, her husband ; 
 where Johnny and the little ones will be able to 
 spatiate amidst green fields ; where there will be 
 a cheery little opera ; and where there will be no 
 large dinner-parties a form of enjoyment in 
 London which she does not relish as much as she 
 ought. 
 
 Besides, she would be free from those magni- 
 ficent beings with powdered heads and silk-clad 
 legs, of whom, at present, she stands rather in 
 awe. For my part, I rather like them. They 
 are almost the only well-dressed people in the 
 community. Besides, I have a strong belief in 
 the faithfulness of servants. In two or three 
 great breaks-up of families which unpleasant
 
 142 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 events, alas, have occurred but too frequently in 
 late days ! I have found that all the servants, 
 " Jeames " included, have behaved very well. I 
 do not agree with the common remark that is 
 made about there being no servants now like the 
 servants of the olden times. 
 
 Milverton. I quite agree with you. You 
 must not be so discursive, but must allow me 
 to go on with my remarks upon decentralization 
 and disagglomeration. You must own, that the 
 tendency of modern times is towards, what is 
 called, popular government. Now popular govern- 
 ment, with all its merits, has one great demerit, 
 that of being prone to act by fits and starts. It 
 is apt to rush from wild expenditure to abject 
 thrift one extreme being just as bad as another. 
 I am not very fond of these popular impulses 
 being allowed to act over immense extents of 
 territory. Such experiments may be tried on 
 too large a scale to please me. 
 
 On the whole, and as a summing up of this 
 subject, I dare to say, that if I were not an 
 Englishman, I would as soon be a citizen of 
 the republic of Andorra as of any community 
 I know of. 
 
 Ellesmere. I have before heard you talk of
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 143 
 
 this Andorra, but I am sure I do not know where 
 it is. One of the uses of wars is, that they teach 
 us geography ; but whether, as Dickens makes 
 the schoolboy say of the alphabet, it is " worth 
 while to go through so much to learn so little," 
 is a question. But where is Andorra ? I suppose 
 some little republic in South America, known 
 only to Milverton, or perhaps existing only in 
 his imagination ! 
 
 Milverton. It is situate between the northern 
 limits of Catalonia and the French Depart- 
 ment of the Ariege. No customs -duties are 
 imposed think of that, Cranmer ! The young 
 men live in the same house as the head of the 
 family, nor are they allowed any authority, not 
 even a vote, until they are married. The style 
 of life is very patriarchal. The total area is 
 about one hundred and ninety square miles. 
 The inhabitants, numbering about eighteen thou- 
 sand, rule themselves, electing a council of twenty- 
 four, that is, four deputies from each of the six 
 counties into which the State is divided. 
 
 Mauleverer. People, I have no doubt, are .as 
 miserable there as elsewhere. Let all the other 
 circumstances of life be ever so comfortable, you 
 have always this, that the wrong people mostly
 
 144 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 fall in love with one another, and that is sure to 
 produce misery enough. 
 
 Ellesmere. After this cheerful sentiment, I 
 think it would be as well to take a walk on the 
 Downs. The sparseness of population there will 
 be a comfort to Milverton's mind. No foolish 
 agglomerations there, except of silly, well-meaning 
 sheep. No need for decentralization. 
 
 Milverton. Stop a minute. There is some- 
 thing to which I must call your attention. We 
 were talking, the other day, about French writers. 
 I must read you a " communication," as official 
 persons would say, which George Sand has just 
 made. [Here Mr. Milverton read George Sand's 
 letter.] Now take only one sentence, forming 
 a paragraph, according to the fashion by which 
 French writers seek to intensify their writing. 
 
 " The God of Armies his name is Country 
 and Liberty ! " 
 
 Now have we any reason to believe that there 
 is an especial " God of Armies ? " And conceive 
 the absurdity of this god's name being " Country 
 and Liberty." Why there is no creed of the 
 lowest savages that would not give the god of 
 battles, if they had invented such a being, a more 
 appropriate name than " Country and Liberty."
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 145 
 
 But, of course, it is idle to attempt to reason 
 about such absurdities. 
 
 This letter, however, affords a good example 
 of what we were saying about the way which 
 French writers have, of wandering into big-drum 
 talk. It seems as though they had a number of 
 big words, which they chuck about in a chance 
 fashion, hoping that by accident some of these 
 big words may fall into their right places, and 
 make a fine sentence, which hope is seldom 
 realized. 
 
 And then, remember, that this sentence has 
 not been written by an ordinary writer, but by 
 one of the most consummate writers of our age. 
 Her little rustic novels are simply perfection. 
 Take La Petite Fadette for instance, a story of 
 twins, the children of a peasant proprietor, and 
 of Fadette, the child of a poor peasant woman. 
 There are no sensational scenes, no incidents that 
 are not of the most ordinary kind. There is no 
 exaggeration throughout the book. The style is 
 excellent ; the descriptions beautiful. In fact, 
 there is nothing to blame, and everything to 
 admire. Again, it is a universal story, a story 
 which would suit all nations in its way Shake- 
 spearian. And then consider that the same writer 
 
 10
 
 146 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 can talk such nonsense about the " God of 
 Armies." The moment these French writers 
 write about anything that is abstract, they seem 
 to think that there is no occasion for common 
 sense to pervade their writings ; whereas common 
 sense enters into fairy stories, and into the highest 
 flights of imagination. There is a great deal 
 of common sense in the story of Prospero and 
 Miranda. 
 
 Ellesmere. All very true ; but let us come 
 and wander into the districts of disagglomeration. 
 
 Milverton. No : you must stay a little longer. 
 I have another precious extract to give you from 
 another French author, which will also be a good 
 illustration of what I have been saying. Victor 
 Hugo has been making a general appeal to the 
 Germans, in the course of which he says, " Paris 
 is nothing but an immense hospitality." 
 
 Ellesmere. He might as well say "Paris is 
 nothing but buttered muffins." The one state- 
 ment would be quite as true as the other. 
 
 Cranmer. What odd ideas you have, Elles- 
 mere. 
 
 Milverton. But his idea is not far wrong in 
 this case. Now, hospitality is a thing totally 
 disconnected with the paying of bills that is,
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 147 
 
 on the part of the receiver of hospitality. And 
 if anybody has made a visit to Paris, and has had 
 no bills to pay, he is a highly privileged mortal. 
 You might as well say Regent Street is an 
 immense hospitality. 
 
 I, too, have an odd idea. I think if you were 
 to take thirty or forty potent substantives, thirty 
 or forty telling adjectives, and thirty or forty 
 verbs, some of them common, and some forcible ; 
 and if you were to put these substantives adjec- 
 tives and verbs, separately, into three hats, in 
 folded pieces of paper, as though you were going 
 to draw lots ; and then take from each hat one 
 of these folded papers, you would make as fine 
 sentences to be arranged in short paragraphs, as 
 these great writers indulge us with. 
 
 In fact, you would be talking high French, 
 without knowing it. I will give you a notion 
 of the kind of substantives we will put into the 
 substantive hat : France, glory, Paris, fraternity, 
 the State, liberty, battles, equality, despotism, 
 immensity 
 
 Ellesmere. Bosh ! 
 
 Milverton. No : that coarse word will not 
 come in, Ellesmere. Let me continue the list. 
 Republic, beauty, joy, vastness, creation, space,
 
 148 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 peoples, profundity, intelligence, civilization, and 
 so on. 
 
 Among the adjectives, we will take care to 
 have the word " sinister " a word, if you observe, 
 the French delight in. 
 
 Some day or other we will have a game at 
 this, for the fun of the thing. 
 
 Ellesmere. Don't suppose, Milverton, that 
 your own class, the authors of England, are 
 entirely guiltless as regards this tall kind of talk- 
 ing. It was only yesterday that I was reading 
 one of your great reviews, and I came upon this 
 sentence : " The great man is he who never 
 blunders." Now, is not that as absurd as anything 
 you have quoted ? 
 
 Milverton. No, it is not. You could not 
 have furnished me with a better means of showing 
 the difference between the writers of the two 
 nations. I admit that the statement of the English 
 author is ridiculous, entirely devoid of truth, as 
 may be seen from a diligent reading of the lives 
 of great men, from King David downwards. It 
 would, perhaps, be more like the truth to say, 
 " The great man is he who is sure to make the 
 greatest of blunders." But now mark the differ- 
 ence between the English and the French author.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 149 
 
 The Englishman, smitten for the moment with 
 the desire to write something fine, has put forth 
 an aphorism, with which we cannot agree. But 
 we understand what he means ; whereas, when 
 authors tell us that Paris is nothing but an 
 " immense hospitality," or that the " name of the 
 God of Armies is Country and Liberty," they 
 have gone into a region of thought, or rather of 
 no thought, into which we cannot follow them. 
 I am much obliged to you, Ellesmere, for your 
 attack upon the poor Englishman, for it has 
 been very useful to me in the way of illustration. 
 
 Ellesmere. May we go now ? 
 
 Sir Arthur. No ; not just yet. It is very 
 hard upon you, Ellesmere, but I want you to stay 
 for a minute or two, to hear what I have to say. 
 And it is simply this, that one of the greatest 
 proofs of deficiency of civilization, in an individual 
 man or woman, or in a nation, is the readiness 
 to believe a lie. Of course nobody would believe 
 a lie if he knew it to be a lie ; but there are 
 nations, as well as individuals, who hasten to 
 believe injurious accusations, which, upon the face 
 of them, are, to say the least, enormously im- 
 probable. For instance, when a man is accused 
 of being a traitor, whose alleged treason would be
 
 150 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 highly injurious to himself, any reasonable people 
 would pause before they gave credence to such 
 an accusation. In short, there is no evidence 
 more strong, or more conclusive, of the existence 
 of a superior mind, than its power of waiting and 
 considering before it resolves to believe any 
 injurious accusation. Happily, there are a good 
 many such minds. Otherwise we should all be 
 victimized by lies in an age when there is so 
 much writing and speaking, and such swift modes 
 of communication as there are in our time. 
 
 Ellesmere. I am glad I stayed, for I take this 
 maxim of Sir Arthur to be a panegyric on myself, 
 as nobody can accuse me of a readiness to believe 
 anything I may hear. 
 
 [And here the conversation ended.]
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 151 
 
 CHAPTER V. 
 
 were all lounging about in the study, which 
 is the cosiest room in the house ; and there 
 was no .conversation of a settled character, for 
 Mr. Milverton was absent. He had gone to attend 
 a meeting of school managers, and had not 
 returned. The talk was desultory, and chiefly 
 maintained, as usual, by Sir John Ellesmere.J 
 
 Ellesmere. What a fine thing is a country 
 gentleman's life in England ! I do believe it is 
 the salvation of the country. There is nothing 
 like it anywhere else, as far as my poor experi- 
 ence goes. Now, look at our good host. If ever 
 there was a man, meant to be a solitary student, 
 that is the man ; and such an inactive fellow, too ! 
 He thinks he has done wonders if he has walked 
 with us across the orchard ; but, you see, he is 
 obliged to attend to local affairs ; and no doubt it 
 does him a world of good.
 
 152 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Sir Arthur. It must be a very attractive 
 life, for it is the ideal life of every English- 
 man. 
 
 Ellesmere. You should have seen Milverton 
 during the year in which the volunteers were 
 formed. He told you the other day how proud 
 he was of being a volunteer. I was down here 
 for three weeks at the height of the business. 
 You know how devoted he is to whatever subject 
 is uppermost in his mind ; and we heard about 
 nothing but military rules and regulations, and 
 military uniforms and accoutrements. I assure 
 you, that great imaginary battles, in which the 
 volunteers took the principal part, were trans- 
 acted in this study ; and we did not then 
 hear half as much about Machiavelli as about 
 Lord Elcho. 
 
 Sir Arthur. As I have often said before, it 
 is a great advantage, Milverton's having always 
 some subject pressing on his mind, which absorbs 
 his energies, and which he will insist upon every- 
 body else considering. 
 
 Ellesmere. I rather think I baffle him some- 
 times. 
 
 Cranmer. I don't know : he always contrives 
 somehow or other to work round to his subject.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE, 153 
 
 Ellesmere. Yes : and you always aid him in 
 doing so. 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. I can't help thinking what a 
 queer country squire John would make ! He 
 often talks of retiring ; but, I confess I dread 
 the day when that retirement will commence. 
 It is not, by any means, that I have too much 
 of his company at present ; but I know we shall 
 lead a life of perfect solitude, for which neither of 
 us is exactly fitted. He will lay down the law to 
 the country justices ; and he will say some of his 
 odd sayings at country dinner-tables ; and, after a 
 few months, we shall be steadily cut by all the 
 gentry. It will only be my unfortunate self, or some 
 old retainer like the gardener here, who will have to 
 endure him ; and what a life we shall lead ! And 
 then, too, somebody will commit a trespass, and 
 John will make such a dreadful fuss about it not 
 caring a straw about the trespass, but being de- 
 lighted at having an opportunity of fussing about 
 something. Please don't retire just yet, John : not 
 until we are a rheumatic, wheezy, old couple, and, 
 like Mr. and Mrs. Smallweed, can sit by the 
 chimney-corner and throw pillows at one another. 
 
 Ellesmere. Women are never accurate. Mrs. 
 Smallweed didn't throw pillows.
 
 154 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Mrs. Milverton. John would be very good to 
 the poor. 
 
 Ellesmere. Thank you, Mrs. Milverton. I 
 wish you could make your sister sometimes say 
 something good of me. Oh, dear ! what a foolish 
 man I was when I was young. I might, perhaps, 
 have won a wife who would occasionally have 
 spoken well of me. 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. Not if Blanche had known 
 you as well as I do. 
 
 Ellesmere. Now that Milverton is out of the 
 room, I must tell you something that tickled my 
 fancy greatly. You recollect his going out of the 
 room the other day in such a rage, because all of 
 you would make out that works of Art were of 
 more account than human beings ; and how he 
 said that he was going to confabulate with old 
 John, the gardener. Well, it is an ill tempest 
 that does not blow somebody some good. You 
 must know that old John had given warning. 
 Milverton had said, in the innocence of his heart, 
 "The celery is not so fine this year as it was 
 last year." Whereupon old John, being in one 
 of his crustiest moods, fired up at once, and 
 said, that " he saw he didn't give satisfaction, 
 and he'd go, that he would ! " and accordingly
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 155 
 
 he gave warning on the spot. Milverton was 
 not deeply affected, seeing it was about the two- 
 and-twentieth time (as I can certify) that John 
 has given warning. Well, when Milverton was 
 so angry with us, he really did go to get some 
 comfort from old John. I have wheedled out of 
 Milverton what was the talk between master and 
 man. Old John knows every turn in his master's 
 countenance, and saw at once, I have no doubt, 
 how vexed he was. So the old man looks up in 
 his sly way, like an old raven, with that side-long 
 look in which ravens indulge, and said, " They 
 beant with you this morning, master ? " " No, 
 thank goodness ! " said Milverton, somewhat 
 savagely, as you may imagine. " Ah ! he do 
 talk, that lawyer, he do, a'most like the clatter 
 of the mill down yonder." (You will observe 
 how everybody here lays everything that goes 
 wrong upon me me, the most innocent of human 
 beings ! and in this case, the only innocent one.) 
 But, I forgive old John, for he benignly added, 
 " I likes un though ; he ain't a bad sort, arter 
 all." Now, really, it was very splendid of old 
 John coming out as a peacemaker. Moreover, 
 he resolved to make Milverton perfectly happy, 
 by taking him into favour again. " I beant sure,"
 
 156 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 he added, " but what I'll stay till arter Christmas. 
 You'll never get any one but me who will put up 
 with your ways, master. As for that there celery, 
 it was as fine as ever growed." Milverton, of 
 course, owned that he must be perfectly in the 
 wrong about that unfortunate celery ; and then they 
 went pottering together about the garden, laying 
 out their plans for years to come. So you see 
 that it is an ill tempest, as I said before, that does 
 not blow somebody some good ; and, in this 
 instance (a very rare one, by the way) it has 
 blown some good to the tempest-causer himself, 
 for Milverton is always delighted to be taken 
 into favour again by old John. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Well, I do hope that we shall 
 have no more talk respecting the relative value 
 of works of Art and human lives ; though, as I 
 said just now, what makes our conversations 
 here so interesting, is, that Milverton generally 
 contrives to keep before us the thoughts that 
 are, for the moment, prominent in his mind. 
 
 Ellesmere. I do not think, Sir Arthur, that 
 you have quite hit off the reason why we cluster 
 about Milverton, and go to him, since we cannot 
 persuade him to come to us, he being as fond 
 of home as his cat, Bijou.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 157 
 
 Sir Arthur. What is it then, Ellesmere ? 
 
 Ellesmere. It is that he thoroughly believes 
 in himself not in his physical or moral self, for 
 he must know the many weaknesses in those 
 quarters, but in his intellectual self in the truth 
 of his convictions. I have known him ever since 
 he was so high, and I flatter myself I understand 
 him. He forms his opinions silently, after much 
 pondering ; and, when he has once formed them, 
 he has a supreme conviction of their absolute 
 Tightness. Now there is always something 
 interesting in dealing with a man who has a 
 profound belief in himself. You have something 
 to battle against. I hate your fluffy, feather-bed 
 kind of people, your walking haystacks newly 
 made, upon whom you can always make an 
 impression. 
 
 Many of his opinions are aged opinions ; and, 
 as we do with good wine, he values them the 
 more, because they have been bottled up so long. 
 You know, for instance, how strong are his 
 opinions about the evils of competition. You 
 can always draw him out upon that subject. 
 Well, he communicated these same opinions to 
 me when we were strolling about the playing- 
 fields at Eton (of course he never played at
 
 158 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 anything if he could help it) ; and he told me 
 then that competition was " the consuming vice 
 of a decaying period." He was, even as a boy, 
 somewhat grandiloquent. It was about that time, 
 too, he informed me that Bishop Berkeley was the 
 greatest metaphysician that had ever lived, and 
 that his ideal theory was quite right. He holds 
 that same opinion still, as I found out the 
 other day. Again, when we were both a little 
 older, and were walking up and down the cloisters 
 of Trinity, on a wet day, he desired me to believe 
 that Machiavelli was one of the greatest thinkers 
 on political subjects that-had ever blessed the 
 world with their thoughts ; and that the said 
 Machiavelli was a very creditable personage, 
 whose chief aim it had been that the world 
 should be well governed. 
 
 It amuses me, Milverton's pretending to take 
 us into council, and reading to us anything that 
 he has written, as if we could change his views. 
 If any of you, . even the judicious Cranmer, 
 supposes that he has ever seriously affected 
 any one of Milverton's cherished convictions, he 
 is the victim of a fond imagination. Milverton 
 watches what we say, and will sometimes con- 
 descend to vary the expression of his opinions
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 159 
 
 accordingly. But the substance is adamantine 
 in his mind. In fact, he uses us somewhat as 
 foolometers, though of course he would be too 
 polite, even in his thoughts, to use such a dis-> 
 logistic word as " foolometers." But here he 
 comes. [Enter MILVERTON. 
 
 Milverton. What were you saying about 
 foolometers, Ellesmere ? You shouldn't talk so 
 loud, when the study window is open, if you do 
 not wish to be overheard. I believe I am a 
 foolometer to you, for you try all manner of folly 
 and wickedness upon me. I don't forget, Master 
 Ellesmere, that you pretended, the other day, 
 to agree with these people about works of Art 
 being more precious than human beings, though I 
 must do you the justice to say that when, after 
 dinner, the conversation became serious, you 
 were thoroughly on the right side. But you 
 thought you would annoy me, and " get a rise out 
 of me," to use that common expression for a 
 vulgar project. 
 
 Ellesmere. No ; I was not exactly maintain- 
 ing that you ever played the part of foolometer. 
 What I was saying applied to other people to 
 Cranmer, and Lady Ellesmere, for instance. But 
 what has been done, Milverton, by the rustic
 
 160 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 sages, who constitute the school board ? I do 
 hope that you have been doing what you can 
 to prevent this rabid culture of yours extending 
 to national schoolchildren. They know twice 
 too much already. At least they know far more 
 than I do of those detestable vulgar fractions, and 
 dates, and names, and everything which wise men 
 forget, as soon as they can, after leaving school. 
 I would have you to know, though, that I am 
 becoming a highly cultured man myself, and 
 am going to impart to you something that will 
 delight the inmost cockles of your heart. 
 
 Now, what shall be said in praise of the man, 
 or rather what shall not be said in praise of the 
 man (for it would be difficult to praise him 
 enough), who loses no time in practising what 
 other people only preach ? The words of the wise 
 are to him " as the nails fastened by the masters 
 of assemblies " a passage in the Scriptures, by the 
 way, which I have never been able to understand. 
 
 Cranmer. I know this, that Sir John is the 
 master of surprises ; for I should never have 
 suspected him of rushing to practise what other 
 people have preached to him. I dare say, 
 though, he attends to his own sermons. Most 
 people do.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 161 
 
 Ellesmere. What an effect good company 
 produces upon a man ! Living with us so much 
 as he does, Cranmer absolutely becomes witty. 
 Don't let it be known, Cranmer. Keep your 
 wit for us. It won't do you any good as a candi- 
 date for office. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Please leave Cranmer alone, 
 Ellesmere, and tell us at once what you have to 
 say. I am pining to hear what Milverton was 
 about to say in reference to Machiavelli when you 
 interrupted him the other day. 
 
 Ellesmere. I have been studying science ever 
 since the first day of our recent conversations, 
 when Milverton told us that it was a barbarous 
 thing for men, who call themselves cultivated, not 
 to know something of the physical world that 
 surrounds them ; and I have come to the 
 conclusion that we are ruled by the infinitely 
 little. 
 
 Mauleverer. Do you mean that we are 
 governed in Literature and politics by people of 
 very small minds ? for if so, although it is a very 
 ill-natured saying, I am not disposed to differ 
 from you. 
 
 Ellesmere. How he endeavours to father his 
 misanthropic ill-nature on me! No, sir; I mean 
 
 1 1
 
 1 62 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 my maxim to relate purely to Science. I have 
 been studying Professor Tyndall " On Dust : " 
 then, prowling about amongst Milverton's books, 
 I have been reading of monads, and rotifers, and 
 animalculae of all kinds. Then I have gone into 
 geology, and found out how many millions of 
 little shelly creatures are condensed into a square 
 inch of marble. Then I have advanced into 
 physiology, and learnt all about germ cells, and 
 that " the microcosms of all the inhabitants of 
 Ireland and Scotland would weigh little more 
 than a pound."* 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. It is all true. I do not 
 mean all true about those monads and things. 
 But John has really been studying Science. He 
 has been sitting up half the night, almost every 
 night we have been here, and has sometimes had 
 the cruelty to awake me to tell me of something 
 wonderful he has found out. 
 
 Ellesmere. Yes. You see, I wanted to know 
 some of the things you scientific people had really 
 found out. It is hopeless, at my time of life, for 
 me to go into x + y = cos 0, the sort of stuff you 
 mathematicians fill up pages with, chiefly for 
 fun, I believe, and to perplex and annoy us 
 
 * Cod in Matter, Dr. Clarke.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 163 
 
 unscientific people. But I wanted to know 
 results. By the way, I must not omit to tell you 
 that I went into the question of infinitely small or 
 invisible fungoid growths, which I daresay are 
 the origin of most diseases, and that I revelled in 
 the question of ultimate atoms. 
 
 Altogether, and most seriously speaking, I am 
 appalled by a sense of the importance of observing 
 infinitely small things. 
 
 Milverton. It is delightful to hear you talk in 
 this way. 
 
 Ellesmere. Yes. As I approach old age I 
 am becoming a Milvertonian, much against the 
 grain. But it is wonderful, is it not, to see how 
 large a part these immeasurably small, and, for the 
 most part, invisible creatures and atoms, play in 
 this world ? I declare I should like to know 
 something more of Science. I wish I had been a 
 doctor instead of a lawyer. Those fellows keep 
 up their Science. Look at Sir Henry Holland ! 
 If I had life to come over again, I would know 
 more about these things. 
 
 I even carried off, on the sly, Milverton's 
 microscope. What a world of beauty it reveals 
 to us ! But I see it is too late for me to 
 hope to become a good microscopic observer.
 
 1 64 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Really, I perceive Milverton was right the other 
 day, when he intimated what a loss might occur if 
 a youth who was intended by nature to become a 
 scientific man perhaps a microscopic observer, 
 were carried off to be manufactured into a mere 
 soldier. Descartes, though, was a soldier, was 
 he not ? 
 
 Sir Arthur. Yes. 
 
 Milverton. Never mind the exceptions. Go 
 on, Ellesmere. 
 
 Ellesmere. And let me tell you one thing. I 
 would not do what Mauleverer has done, namely, 
 bother myself about those huge remote heavenly 
 bodies ; but I would devote my mind to the little 
 things which are more within my ken. And I 
 will tell you another conclusion I have come to. I 
 would not go so deeply into pure mathematics as 
 they do at the Universities. 
 
 Milverton. This kind of knowledge must be 
 kept up, too, Ellesmere. 
 
 Ellesmere. Well, it should not be kept up by 
 me. Now I am going to betray something to 
 you, meaning, I confess, to surprise you. I did 
 not consult any of you upon my difficulties, or ask 
 you to explain anything in these books, which 
 required more mathematical knowledge than I
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 165 
 
 possessed (it is difficult to possess less) ; but I 
 went off to a certain friend of mine, a clergyman, 
 whose rectory is about six miles from here, and 
 who was a high wrangler in my time. He knew 
 all about x + y = cos 9 ; but he had no interest 
 whatever in the subjects I was studying. He 
 neither knew nor cared anything about them. 
 Before I could get any reasonable discourse out of 
 him, I was obliged to indoctrinate him as to the 
 principal facts. Now this should not be ; and the 
 worst of it is, that it makes good Milverton's 
 theories about competitive examination. My 
 friend said to me, that he had read " like a tiger " 
 at the University. That was his expression, 
 though I have not found the feline tribe to be 
 very studious. They seem to be given chiefly to 
 sleeping, if I can judge from your beloved cat, 
 Bijou. But, however, he read " like a tiger," he 
 said, to get his fellowship, and so to get his 
 living. And, as for Science, he " did not care a 
 straw about it." He wanted me, very much, to 
 give him, in exchange for his small modicum of 
 mathematical information, a legal opinion upon 
 the " Common Rights " appertaining to his glebe. 
 To come back again to what were my thoughts 
 after mastering this immense mass of knowledge
 
 166 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 respecting the infinitely small portions of creation; 
 I really think I should have been a good 
 reasoner on scientific matters, as I am very slow 
 to believe anything. 
 
 Milverton. I do hope, Ellesmere, that amidst 
 the many scientific works you seem to have 
 studied 
 
 Cranmer. Dipped into 
 
 Ellesmere. It is a pity that Cranmer's nature 
 is so prone to depreciation. 
 
 Milverton. Well ; I hope then you did not 
 omit to dip into Huxley's Address to ttie British 
 Association. It is really excellent. You would 
 immensely delight in it, Ellesmere, because it is 
 so fair and so argumentative a production. And 
 then the man is very eloquent, and writes well a 
 merit not always to be observed in the works of 
 scientific men. Then, too, he comes to much the 
 same conclusion that you do, Ellesmere, about the 
 value of the infinitely small. Please give me 
 the Address, Johnson. It is on the table close 
 to you. I am afraid Ellesmere has not read 
 it, as it does not appear to have been moved. 
 Let me read to you one or two passages as illus- 
 trations of the style. It is not a work from which 
 we can quote bits, in order to give a just idea of
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 167 
 
 the substance. In concluding, he says, " Our 
 survey has not taken us into very attractive 
 regions ; it has lain, chiefly, in a land flowing with 
 the abominable, and peopled with mere grubs 
 and mouldiness. Nevertheless," he adds, " you 
 will have observed, that before we had travelled 
 very far upon our road, there appeared, on the 
 right hand and on the left, fields laden with a 
 harvest of golden grain, immediately convertible 
 into those things which the most sordidly practical 
 of men will admit to have value, namely, money 
 and life." 
 
 Ellesmerc. Huxley and I agree. We are 
 birds of the same feather, only his scientific 
 plumage happens to be a little more brilliant than 
 mine. I would plead a cause for that man with- 
 out taking a fee. Can I say more to show my 
 appreciation of his merits ? 
 
 But, reverting to the main subject, I do admit 
 that there is an immense deal which we unscientific 
 people might learn of Science, if we only aimed at 
 mastering the results of scientific research. 
 
 Milverton. Now, this was where Lord 
 Palmerston was so great. There was no dis- 
 covery in Science during his time, which that 
 much-inquiring man did not read about, and, as
 
 1 68 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 far as he could, master. I dare say I have told 
 some of you this before. 
 
 Sir Artlmr. You have not told me. I 
 knew Palmerston pretty well ; but I had no idea 
 that he cared about Science. 
 
 Milverton. He did, though. I have often 
 made long railway journeys with him we two 
 alone in a compartment. For about the first 
 fifty miles he would work at his official boxes. 
 Then for he was the most courteous and kind 
 of men he would have a little talk with me about 
 affairs in general, thinking it right to be com- 
 panionable. And then, out of his capacious great- 
 coat pockets, he would bring some scientific paper 
 the last thing published by the Astronomical 
 Society, or the latest discovery in optics ; and he 
 would be absorbed in this paper until the end 
 of the journey. The only things that occasionally 
 took the place of his scientific studies, were works 
 relating to the grammar of foreign languages. 
 He knew more about Italian and modern Greek 
 than almost any other man. Now, I have always 
 put him down in my mind as a man of real 
 culture. Of course it would have been a grand 
 thing for him if he had been better educated, 
 scientifically speaking, and had known more of
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 169 
 
 pure mathematics ; but then, I suppose, we 
 should have lost him as a politician, for the bent 
 of his mind was scientific. 
 
 Sir Arthur. You do surprise me, Milverton. 
 How true that line of Henry Taylor's is which, 
 by the way, the same Henry Taylor (I beg his 
 pardon, Sir Henry) once told me he had written 
 without any notion that people would find so 
 much meaning in it " The world knows nothing 
 of its greatest men." 
 
 Milverton. Yes ; I think it ought to make 
 us all very modest and dubious in our judgments 
 of other men, when we see that a man like Lord 
 Palmerston, living in the front of the world, always 
 on the stage, one of the frankest of men too, was 
 so little understood. 
 
 But I must not go on talking about Lord 
 Palmerston, or I should talk for an hour. By the 
 way, one thing more I must tell you, and that is, 
 that he was a most sensitive man. 
 
 Ellesmere. Sensitive ! 
 
 Milverton. Yes ; about other people's diffi- 
 culties and misfortunes. In his latter days one 
 was obliged to conceal from him, occasionally, 
 things of this kind; he fretted over them so much. 
 And yet I daresay you have a notion that he
 
 1 70 CONVERSATIONS ON IV A R 
 
 was a mere man of the world ; jovial and good- 
 natured, not taking things much to heart. You 
 never were more mistaken. 
 
 It is particularly fitting that Lord Palmers- 
 ton's name should be mentioned in connection 
 with the subject which Ellesmere has brought 
 so prominently before us ; for his lordship, 
 shortly before his death, wrote to me, desiring 
 me to cause scientific inquiries to be made 
 respecting a matter deeply concerning the public 
 welfare, which inquiries chiefly related to the 
 possible presence of small animalculae, of fungoid 
 spores. He had not been put up to this by any 
 scientific man, but it was his own idea that an 
 investigation of this kind might lead to important 
 practical results. 
 
 Ellesmere. I wish I had given the attention 
 to these things that Lord Palmerston did. Upon 
 my word, if he, in his busy life, could keep an eye 
 on the results of Science, surely the rest of us 
 could do the same. 
 
 Milverton. Now, is not this a triumph for 
 me, that I should ever have induced Ellesmere 
 to take to Science ! 
 
 Sir Arthur. It is a very delightful circum- 
 stance ; but at the present moment, though
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 171 
 
 rejoicing in any improvement of our friend 
 Ellesmere, I confess I am impatient to hear 
 what Milverton was about to say anent the pre- 
 vention of war that something which we were 
 scarcely worthy to hear. 
 
 Ellesmere. " Oh loss of one in heaven to 
 judge of wise," as the Archangel Gabriel says in 
 Paradise Lost. " Wise " there means wisdom. 
 
 Milverton. No ; we will touch upon the 
 Machiavellian subject afterwards : but do let 
 me take this opportunity of proceeding with my 
 main subject, culture. If you will allow me to 
 do so, I assure you I will enter upon a branch 
 of that subject which will be of eminent service 
 to you practical service. Johnson wants me to 
 make use of my notes on books ; but I might as 
 well ask this east wind, which half kills me, to 
 be courteous and kind, as ask you to put aside 
 talking about war at this time for the sake of 
 mere literary discussion ; but I think you will 
 allow me to do so for the sake of " improving " 
 the fact of Ellesmere's scientific conversion. 
 
 Ellesmere. You need not sneer. I shall be 
 a scientific man long before you are a musician 
 a feat which you are always declaring you will 
 undertake.
 
 172 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Milverton. I assure you, I really am glad that 
 you have made a beginning in your scientific 
 studies, and a very good beginning too. I do not 
 say that you will be of as much use as my good 
 friend Ruskin would be, if he were here ; but 
 your recent scientific acquirements will enable 
 you to be of some use in supporting the views 
 I am going to put forward. 
 
 I want to insist upon the deficiency of culture 
 in the construction of those things upon which 
 health and comfort in domestic life depend. I 
 must, of necessity, go over much ground that 
 has been trodden by me before ; but what there 
 will be new in it, will be, the endeavour to show 
 that it is the want of culture which allows the 
 existence of the evils I shall enumerate. You 
 must admit, I think, if you are at all observant, 
 that our streets, our houses, our furniture, our 
 modes of conveyance, and, in short, all those 
 constructions which we form for the uses of 
 daily life, are full of errors. Now, in the first 
 place, it will be natural for you to say to me, " we 
 do admit this : we admit, for instance, that our 
 streets are ill-devised, our houses ill-built, our 
 apparatus for warming and lighting most wasteful 
 and absurd, and our furniture mischievously ugly;
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 173 
 
 but we are neither architects, builders, tradesmen, 
 nor artisans, and the blame must rest with them." 
 I cannot agree with you. It is the want of 
 general culture in the customer that creates the 
 inferiority of the thing purchased by him. 
 
 Cranmer. As usual, I am the slow person 
 who does not exactly understand the drift of 
 your discourse. 
 
 Ellesmere. If you want to be understood, 
 Milverton, always take a particular case. 
 
 Milverton. I will now do so ; and I will 
 profit at once by your scientific researches. 
 Thanks to Tyndall and Huxley, and others of 
 the chief men of Science in our time, you have 
 discovered for you a somewhat late discovery 
 the enormous influence of the small creatures and 
 things in this world. You have learned to 
 respect, with all the respect that flows from 
 terror, the awful power of dust and invisible 
 animalculae. Now, what is the first thing to be 
 done in a sick-room ? The first thing is to 
 remove out of it everything that could be a nidus 
 of infection ; but if you observe carefully the con- 
 struction of nearly all furniture, and especially of 
 the ornamentation of furniture, it is such as to 
 make the furniture a habitat for dust. I some-
 
 174 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 times wonder to myself, how infectious disease, 
 when it has once got into a house, is ever to be 
 got out, as there are so many little receptacles 
 cleverly formed for holding it. Now, here comes 
 in the main point I wish to prove, which is this 
 that if many more people had much more know- 
 ledge of the physical circumstances and laws of 
 the world in which they live, these foolish forms 
 of construction, of which I complain, would be 
 put down. In the absence of this kind of 
 culture, the most obvious facts pass unheeded. 
 For example, it is a fact, patent to all men's eyes, 
 that in a coal-burning country, there is a great 
 deal of concentrated smoke in great cities. Does 
 a perception of this fact make us a bit wiser in 
 the construction of houses and public buildings 
 in those cities ? Look at a certain great public 
 building which has been recently constructed. 
 Observe the patty-pans, as I call them, which 
 surround that building, and are fondly supposed 
 to be an ornament to it, but which are rapidly 
 becoming black dabs upon it. Observe, too, the 
 grimy statues. If you must have such ornaments 
 and such statues, they should be of terra-cotta 
 they should be washable. 
 
 Ellesmere. There spoke the man of know-
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 175 
 
 ledge, as he believes himself to be, in the 
 ceramic art. 
 
 Milverton. I knew I should hear that ill- 
 natured remark from Ellesmere ; but I had 
 expressed the same opinion long ago, before I 
 knew anything about plastic clays. Passing from 
 all personalities, let me insist once more upon 
 showing you that these vast errors in domestic 
 comfort result from want of culture. Now, I 
 assure you I am going to the root of the matter. 
 There is a certain time that elapses between the 
 period when knowledge is ascertained about any 
 subject, and the period when that knowledge is 
 brought into practical operation. Of course that 
 time is longer or shorter, according to the number 
 of persons in a community who are imbued with 
 the knowledge in question. For example, Elles- 
 mere has honoured us with his company for about 
 a fortnight. During that time, and when he has 
 not been occupied in eating, drinking, walking, or 
 in snubbing me, he has been picking up a little 
 Science, chiefly giving his mind to very small 
 creatures and things. I admit that, with his 
 lawyer-like power of getting up a subject, he has 
 probably acquired more in this fortnight than 
 most people would have acquired in six weeks.
 
 1 76 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 But I venture to tell you that if there were only 
 a few thousands of persons who knew what 
 Ellesmere now knows about these matters, there 
 would be a public to which scientific men could 
 appeal, and that public would very soon begin 
 to make alteration in the direction which I have 
 pointed out. After all, the constructor and the 
 seller ultimately adapt their works and their 
 goods to the wishes of the purchaser. 
 
 Ellesmere. See what a useful unit I am, or 
 may become ! I am sorry to say, however, that 
 my vast scientific researches have led me to an 
 equal fear and admiration of great things as well 
 as small. In fact, I now believe in nothing but 
 the biggest of big guns and the smallest of small 
 animalculae. I see that that nation will prevail 
 in war which has guns of the longest range, and 
 that that people will excel in health and comfort 
 which has the greatest knowledge of dust and 
 animalculae. 
 
 Milverton. Now you must let me go on and 
 express to you thoroughly my whole thoughts in 
 this matter. The early training of the young 
 must be greatly altered. I shall never forget a 
 certain great author stopping me once in Belgrave 
 Square, and, to the astonishment of the passers-
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 177 
 
 by, scolding me for wishing to inflict upon him 
 knowledge about the Dolopes. " Sir," he said, 
 "I do not desire to hear anything about the 
 Dolopes. No, sir, I entirely decline to have any 
 acquaintance with the Dolopes." Had he been a 
 man given to swearing, he would then and there 
 have dealt very shortly and sharply with the 
 Dolopes. Mark you, I was not Dolopizing to 
 him ; but he was addressing me as an imaginary 
 historical culprit, endeavouring to impress upon 
 him some knowledge of an obscure Greek tribe. 
 Now, I quite agree with him. I, too, decline to 
 hear anything more about the Dolopes, while 
 there are such important things in this world to 
 be attended to in preference to the Dolopes. Oh 
 that men would sometimes consider the shortness 
 of life! 
 
 Again, I go back to early training. Surely 
 the first thing, after moral training, that we 
 should insist upon, is, a training that would make 
 every child understand something of the world in 
 which he is to live and take an active part. Now 
 I must tell you a story that I have often told 
 before ; but it affords an excellent illustration of 
 the absolute madness which sometimes prevails 
 in our training of the young. I was asked to 
 
 12
 
 178 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 examine a large school of girls, to ascertain their 
 proficiency in education. I tried them in various 
 things ; and, as you may imagine, I am a very 
 mild examiner, not being prone to expect much 
 accurate knowledge from anybody about any- 
 thing. I found them lamentably deficient. Some- 
 body by my side, who knew the locality, whispered 
 in my ear, " Try them in Ezekiel." That was 
 more easily said than done, for I must confess 
 that a knowledge of Ezekiel is not one of my 
 strong points ; but it did turn out that they were 
 well up in their Ezekiel, at least in the guesses as 
 to the meaning of that prophet's obscure writings, 
 though they were ignorant of anything that could 
 be of any practical service to them in after-life. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I quite agree with you, Milver- 
 ton ; and I do not think that what I am going to 
 say contains any exaggeration. I maintain that 
 about three-fifths of all we teach had better not be 
 taught at all. 
 
 Milverton. I daresay. I should like to say 
 something more to you upon this subject, to give 
 another illustration of what I mean. Now I look 
 upon the adulteration of what we eat and drink as 
 one of the greatest evils in the world. I know 
 that you are all with me on this subject, because
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 179 
 
 you were so when we talked of it once before. I 
 declare to you that horror- stricken as I am at 
 war, I believe it would be worth while to endure 
 a great war, if by that means we could get rid of 
 the adulteration of food and drink. You, even 
 you, who are supposed to be tolerably cultured 
 men, have no idea of the pernicious effect upon 
 the moral and physical well-being of your fellow- 
 creatures, produced by this adulteration. 
 
 Now, do you suppose that this practice of 
 adulterating the prime articles of food, would 
 hold its ground if there were more general 
 culture ? Not for a day. The present Parlia- 
 ment contains many men of scientific knowledge ; 
 but even if we were to have a parliamentum 
 indoctum, a very ignorant body of men for legis- 
 lators that is, as far as Science is concerned 
 and even if culture did not reach them, a larger 
 extent of knowledge amongst their constituents 
 would compel legislators to think of, and to 
 legislate upon, this great matter. Do you see 
 those white chimneys in the distance ? They 
 are the chimneys of our doctor's house. He 
 keeps all the milk-sellers for miles round in due 
 order by means of his lactometer. I do not, 
 however, expect that this general culture which
 
 i8o CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 I advocate, will make everybody severely 
 scientific 
 
 Ellesmere. And lactometrious 
 
 Milverton. But it will make them understand 
 the mischief of adulterated food and drink. The 
 demand will become wise. People will not 
 expect to buy some article of food as genuine, 
 at a price at which it cannot be genuinely 
 supplied. And with a wise demand will come 
 an honest supply. 
 
 I will say no more upon this subject. I 
 confess it is one that I am liable to expatiate 
 upon too largely. I know that I am often ridiculed 
 for dwelling so much upon what people are apt to 
 call " trifling matters." 
 
 Ellesmere. Yes ; you might have some name 
 in Literature if you Dolopized more, and wrote big 
 and fine words about remote, obscure, and useless 
 things ; and, by the way, nobody would Dolopize 
 better if he once took to Dolopizing. How gran- 
 diloquent Milverton would be on some obscure 
 point in history or metaphysics ; and how he 
 would persuade himself, and endeavour to per- 
 suade his readers, that this obscure point he was 
 labouring at, was " the be-all and the end-all " of 
 human thought and endeavour !
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 18 1 
 
 Mauleverer. You have no notion how curry- 
 powder and mustard are adulterated ; and I could 
 even tell you something about eggs which would 
 astonish you. 
 
 Ellesmere. Well, I see we are to have no 
 talk about the war this afternoon ; and so, not- 
 withstanding the east wind, let us go out. I find 
 there is so much to observe in every little creature 
 and thing, that I long to see for myself their 
 ways of going on. I am now enamoured of 
 tadpoles. I find they can teach me so much. 
 By the way, this lady has been very silent during 
 the conversation, which, as it treated largely, 
 though indirectly, of bread and butter and comes- 
 tibles of all kinds, I should have thought would 
 have elicited words of domestic wisdom from her 
 and Mrs. Milverton. 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. I have the grace, John, not 
 to interrupt a conversation, when I can add 
 nothing to it. 
 
 Ellesmere. Come along, all of you, and, as 
 we walk, I will tell you about certain mischievous 
 small creatures that can sting very severely, not- 
 withstanding their smallness. I suppose we must 
 leave Milverton behind, as all his culture has not 
 enabled him to bear up against the east wind.
 
 1 82 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Some day I will give you a lecture upon the 
 athletic side of things. 
 
 A kick, that scarce would move a horse, 
 May kill a sound divine, 
 
 as Cowper says ; and the misnamed curry-powder 
 and mustard which have some effect, I dare say, 
 upon the highly-cultured Milverton, are swallowed 
 with impunity by the robust and ignorant Elles- 
 mere no, by the way, not so ignorant, now that 
 he has had his fortnight's severe training in the 
 realms of infinitesimal science. 
 
 [We all went out for a walk, except Mr. 
 Milverton ; and I wish my readers could have 
 heard all the droll absurdities that Sir John Elles- 
 mere uttered during the walk, finding out resem- 
 blances between the habits of those animalculae 
 which he had studied, and the ways of his par- 
 ticular friends. Inanimate dust, as might be 
 expected, he chiefly compared to useless learning.]
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 183 
 
 CHAPTER VI. 
 
 [I WAS much pleased with the last conversation, 
 because, with the exception of some few vagaries, 
 it kept to one subject namely, the scientific cul- 
 ture which causes men to investigate infinitesi- 
 mally small things and creatures. For the same 
 reason I like the conversation which I am about 
 to record ; because, except a little careering about 
 of Sir John Ellesmere at the outset, it keeps to 
 one subject. I daresay that to my readers it is 
 sometimes amusing to see how Sir John Elles- 
 mere and Mr. Mauleverer divert us from the 
 main subject ; but it is not always equally amusing 
 to Mr. Milverton and his private secretary. We 
 want to say our say, and we can hardly ever 
 manage to get it said. We often have members 
 of Parliament visiting us here. They would 
 thoroughly sympathise with our difficulties. 
 Sometimes, as they tell me, they are full-charged
 
 1 84 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 with a speech which they want to have an oppor- 
 tunity of delivering in some great debate. When, 
 however, they think they have a chance of doing 
 so, up rises a minister, or some leader of a section, 
 or some favourite of the House, or some wit, such 
 as Mr. Bernal Osborne ; and at last it comes to 
 this, that the speech, which has been so anxiously 
 prepared, is not delivered at all. 
 
 It was a charmingly wet day, one of those 
 hopelessly wet days in which one willingly resigns 
 oneself to.in-door work. We were in the study, 
 as usual, and Sir Arthur had been urging Mr. 
 Milverton to take this opportunity of discussing 
 his Machiavellian branch of the subject of war, 
 which he had threatened so many times to give 
 us. Of course Sir John Ellesmere could not at 
 once allow anything so sensible to be done, but 
 interrupted as follows. ] 
 
 Ellesmere (in a whining tone). My beloved 
 friends, my good brethren and sisters, I wish to 
 address a few words of exhortation to you. Let 
 the giddy and the frivolous depart from amongst 
 us. Brother Cranmer, you had better go away. 
 And if there are any young women present, who 
 are more disposed to giggle than to listen reve- 
 rently to the words of wisdom, they, too, had
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 185 
 
 better take their departure and employ themselves 
 in knitting, netting, or knotting, so that they may 
 compose their minds, and not disturb us by their 
 presence. I am not unmindful, too, of what 
 Brother Humgudgeon said lately on a similar 
 occasion : that young women, while they knit, or 
 net, or knot, should, at the same time, cease to 
 employ their minds in preparing snares for those 
 who are unyoked, and scourges for those who are, 
 alas ! yoked. 
 
 Cranmer. I am quite ready to consider myself 
 as one of " the giddy and the frivolous ;" but I 
 don't see why I should leave the room. 
 
 Ellesmere (in Ms natural tone of vo"e). Don't 
 you see that Milverton and Sandy mean business 
 to-day ? Milverton is like an old colonel, replete 
 with self-importance, who has smelt a great deal 
 of powder, and who thinks military discipline the 
 finest thing in the world ; and, as for Sandy, he is 
 just like a young recruit, with streaming ribands 
 to his cap, strutting up and down King Street, 
 and whose whole bearing seems to say, " Come 
 on, Rooshians or Prooshians : I've been and 
 listed, and I'm a match for any dozen of you;" 
 (and so he need be, considering the difference in 
 the numbers of the respective armies !) Depend
 
 1 86 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 upon it, to-day it is as much as our places are 
 worth to interrupt Milverton or Sandy in the dis- 
 course they are about to deliver to us. 
 
 Nevertheless, as I shall have no chance of 
 interrupting, I must tell you a good story, which 
 has just reached me in a letter from my friend 
 Serjeant . Now I will tell you what I con- 
 sider the merit of a good story, or a good anec- 
 dote. It is, that it should have a before and an 
 after that it should open to you vistas of thought. 
 Milverton's story of the Frenchman and the map 
 was, I must own, one of that kind. Mine, about 
 Master Henry Spoffell's saying, had the same 
 merit. When you tell me some witty thing that 
 Talleyrand said, it is generally only a thing of the 
 day, and you soon forget it. The story that I 
 am going to tell you has a perennial application. 
 Here it is. A very eminent person in the scien- 
 tific world, one of the most renowned of engineers, 
 began life, very wisely, by working in a factory. 
 Now there was a man in that factory who had 
 worked there for many years ; who had never 
 made any friends, never cottoned in with anybody, 
 and was supremely silent : but he took to this 
 young man ; and his way of showing that he had 
 taken to him, was, by coming up and saying to
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 187 
 
 him these four or five emphatic words, " A san- 
 guineous rum world, this." I use the word 
 " sanguineous " because I remember that Mil- 
 verton has a peculiar horror of the forcible Anglo- 
 Saxon word it represents. A day or two would 
 elapse ; and then the silent man would come up 
 to his young friend again, and exclaim, " A san- 
 guineous rum world, this." Now, you know, 
 upon whatever subject Milverton is about to 
 discourse to us, this saying of the silent man 
 will be sure to apply. I say ditto to the silent 
 man. 
 
 Mauleverer. And I say ditto, too. Ellesmere 
 told you some time ago how he, and Bismarck, 
 and Nero, and Lucrezia Borgia, were misunder- 
 stood. I also am misunderstood. Do you think 
 that mine is a mere puerile misanthropy ? I feel 
 for the evils of the world as much as you do, only 
 I cannot sit in the seat of the praisers of the 
 world. It seems to me that almost everything 
 concerning human society requires to be recon- 
 sidered. 
 
 Milverton. Well, my dear Mauleverer, I am 
 going to invite you to a careful reconsideration of 
 a very important branch of our subject, namely, 
 the prevention of war.
 
 1 88 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 War is useful to many ; so says Lucan, multis 
 utile bellum. Now ; with a view to prevent war, 
 we should look carefully into the question, as to 
 the classes to whom war is useful ; and, as I am 
 sure Machiavelli would tell us, we should take 
 care to encourage, or at any rate to give power 
 to, those classes to whom war is injurious or 
 odious. To begin with, I suppose you will admit 
 that war is useful to soldiers and sailors, or at 
 least is by them supposed to be so. Also, that it 
 is useful to those who furnish the munitions of 
 war. Also, that the agricultural community 
 sometimes find it useful to them, or fancy that 
 they do so. Here, however, I must guard myself 
 from too wide an interpretation being given to 
 those words, " agricultural community." I would 
 rather confine this assertion to those who profit 
 by the sale of agricultural produce. I do not 
 believe that the agricultural labourer, as a rule, 
 and with any view to his own interest, desires 
 war. For example, I believe that if, at the pre- 
 sent moment, the agricultural population of France 
 were polled, in order to ascertain their wishes and 
 opinions as to the continuance of the war, a very 
 large majority would be found to vote for peace 
 on almost any terms. What I have said above,
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 189 
 
 applies to peasant proprietors, as well as to agri- 
 cultural labourers. 
 
 Now as regards artisans ; their interest, con- 
 sidering them as a body, ought to be, and, I 
 believe, is wonderfully adverse to war. I think 
 it is one of the surest symptoms of progress in 
 the present day, and one of those facts which 
 most distinctly contradict Mauleverer's harsh 
 views as regards the want of progress in mankind, 
 that our British artisans, associating themselves 
 with the artisans of other countries, stoutly pro- 
 tested against the continuance of the present war. 
 
 If we look at this matter rightly, we shall find 
 that the artisan is, of all men, the man who, if he 
 were guided by his interest, should be most averse 
 from war. Look at the thousand odd ways in 
 which artisanship is employed in an age of high 
 civilization. The moment that war comes, all 
 that tends to promote comfort or health, to create 
 beauty, to delight fancy, is either restricted or 
 abandoned in presence of the stern necessities of 
 war. 
 
 Here, however, I am bound to declare to you 
 a melancholy fact. It is a fact, though, which 
 shows the greatness of mankind, and illustrates 
 how prone men are to make light of and postpone
 
 190 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 their nearest interests to sentiment and feeling. 
 Ellesmere has said, and very justly, that those 
 anecdotes are valuable which are not mere present 
 witticisms ; but which have " a before and an 
 after," and which, in their humble way, open up 
 long vistas of thought. I will give you a very 
 pregnant anecdote, showing how the artisan will 
 postpone his own interests when he has once got 
 a political idea into his head. A friend of mine, 
 a physician, became entangled in the crowd at 
 Kennington on that memorable evening when a 
 great Chartist row was expected, and when Louis 
 Napoleon armed himself with a constable's staff 
 to support the cause of order. My friend ob- 
 served a young man of pleasant appearance, who 
 was very busy in the crowd, and appeared to be a 
 leader amongst them. Gradually, by the pressure 
 of the crowd, the two were brought near together, 
 and the good doctor had some talk with this fiery 
 partisan. They exchanged confidences ; and to 
 his astonishment, the doctor found that this furious 
 young Chartist gained his livelihood, and a very 
 good livelihood too, by heraldic painting by 
 painting the coats-of-arms upon carriages. Now, 
 if you can imagine this young man's darling enter- 
 prise to have been successful, if Chartism had
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 191 
 
 prevailed, what would have become of the paint- 
 ing 1 of arms upon carriage-panels ? I believe that 
 my good doctor insinuated this suggestion to the 
 young man, and that it was received with disdain. 
 I must own, therefore, that the utile, even when 
 brought home to a man's self, has much less to do 
 with people's political opinions and desires, than 
 might at first be supposed. Indeed, I would 
 venture to maintain, that no great change has ever 
 been produced in tJte world by motives of self- 
 interest. Sentiment, that thing which many wise 
 people affect to despise, is the commanding thing 
 as regards popular impulses and popular action. 
 
 You must own that I have been very fair as 
 regards what I have said about artisans. I have 
 indicated by this story of the heraldic painter, 
 that I am perfectly aware that a political opinion 
 will thoroughly overcome the interest of this class, 
 and may determine them for war ; but I am sure 
 that their interests point to peace ; and, as they 
 become more and more instructed, and less and 
 less amenable to political passion or prejudice, 
 they will become earnest favourers of peace. I 
 rely much upon them now : and I look forward 
 
 9 
 
 to still greater and surer support from them here- 
 after.
 
 192 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Now, with respect to the higher classes, let us 
 look at the motives by which they are likely to be 
 actuated ; and let us see who, amongst them, are 
 likely to be favourers of war, and who, on the 
 contrary, are likely to view war with eminent 
 disfavour. 
 
 Let us begin with the learned professions. 
 The clergy protest, officially as it were, but at 
 the same time very sincerely, against the horrors 
 and cruelties of war ; but they do not, and pro- 
 bably they cannot, do much as a body to prevent 
 it. Observe how little head the clergy in France 
 have made against the perpetration of this present 
 war. I am not disposed to blame them overmuch. 
 I am quite sure that as a body they are favourers 
 of peace ; but it is evident that they have either 
 very little power to prevent war, or their peace- 
 loving desires are overbalanced by political con- 
 siderations having reference to the state of their 
 Church. 
 
 I come now to the lawyers. To them war is 
 not useful ; for, after all, they thrive with the 
 general thriving of the community in which they 
 live. But, on the other hand, war is not specially 
 injurious to them. Their dealings are with the 
 richer classes, who are the latest to be pinched by
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 193 
 
 the dire calamities of war. A small tradesman 
 suffers far more from war than a great lawyer 
 does ; but, again, his sufferings, as regards his 
 interests, are not by any means so acute and 
 pressing as those of the artisan. By the way, of 
 course I except those artisans who are employed 
 in manufacturing the munitions of war. Their 
 number, however, when compared with the rest of 
 the artisans, is insignificant. 
 
 I come now to the doctors. I contend that 
 their interest does not affect them much either 
 way. They are already so generous to the poor 
 (I love the doctors) that they do not suffer much, 
 pecuniarily speaking, when the poor become a 
 little poorer. The doctors, as the lawyers, live 
 upon the richer classes. They (the doctors) pro- 
 bably appreciate the sufferings caused by war 
 the physical sufferings more accurately, and with 
 more feeling, than any other persons do. I am 
 therefore disposed to reckon them on my side ; 
 that is, on the side of those who detest and abhor 
 war ; and who would do everything in their power 
 to prevent it throughout the world. But these 
 doctors and surgeons for of course I include 
 surgeons are but a small body, and a scattered 
 body. The want of power to act in combination, 
 
 13
 
 194 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 is a thing very clearly to be perceived as regards the 
 medical profession. They can hardly fight their 
 own battles, set aside the battles of other people. 
 They have always been neglected by the State. 
 
 I now come to Science, Art, and Literature. I 
 must thank you for your kindness in listening to 
 me so patiently. I am making a speech to you, 
 as it were, and a peripatetic speech [Mr. Milverton 
 was walking up and down the room] ; and I wish 
 you to hear all that I have to say, without inter- 
 rupting me, reserving your protests until I have 
 finished. 
 
 I believe that I, and the people who think 
 with me in this matter, have ardent supporters 
 amongst the learned, the artistic, and the scientific ; 
 and, what is more, I venture to say that a similar 
 statement may be made as regards the feelings of 
 these classes throughout all ages. I asked Theo- 
 dore Martin, who has written an admirable life of 
 Horace (a life which shows to us not only the nature 
 and domestic doings of Horace, but the aspect of the 
 Roman world in which he lived), whether Horace 
 was really a man of peace ; and Martin referred 
 me to that ode in which Horace, addressing 
 Augustus, who brings back with him peace to 
 Rome, beautifully enunciates the blessings of
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 195 
 
 peace. (You must not ill-naturedly remember 
 those words of Horace's, relictd non bene parmuld, 
 for Horace was no coward) : 
 
 Tutus bos etenim rura perambulat : 
 Nutrit rura Ceres, almaque Faustitas : 
 Pacatum volitant per mare navitae : 
 Culpari metuit Fides. 
 
 This is how Martin translates it : 
 
 For safe the herds range field and fen, 
 Full-headed stand the shocks of grain, 
 Our sailors sweep the peaceful main, 
 
 And man can trust his fellow-men. 
 
 And then there is this charming stanza : 
 
 Now each man, basking on his slopes, 
 Weds to his widow'd trees the vine, 
 Then, as he gaily quaffs his wine, 
 
 Salutes thee, God of all his hopes. 
 
 I should weary you, if I were to show you 
 how, from the earliest times, the greatest men in 
 Science, Literature, and Art have protested against 
 needless warfare. You may say that it has been 
 for their interest to make this protest : Science, 
 Literature, and Art droop their heads when war 
 uprears her gory figure. But the men of Science, 
 Literature, and Art, are the most disinterested of 
 mankind ; otherwise they would hardly have 
 devoted themselves to Science, Literature, and Art.
 
 198 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Then, again, the civil servants are not so very 
 fond of seeing men with cocks'-feathers in their 
 shakos, reaping all the honours and rewards of 
 the public service. Again and this is a great 
 subtlety the whole tenor of their lives is adverse 
 to the predominance of physical force. Now 
 comes in my good Machiavelli. He would, I 
 believe, say : If you wish war to be abstained 
 from ; further, and favour, and give power to this 
 official class ; so you will have a concentrated 
 body close to the inmost springs of government, 
 and very often moving these springs most effectu- 
 ally, who, by every motive that can actuate man- 
 kind, are profoundly adverse to war. 
 
 Lastly, I would ask you, can there be anything 
 more unfortunate for the peace of the world than 
 the military and civil services being confounded 
 together ? At this moment, is it not a thing to 
 be greatly regretted, that a prime minister is at 
 the same time a major in a regiment of cavalry ? 
 
 Before I conclude, I must dispose of an objec- 
 tion which is, otherwise, sure to be made. It is 
 that the pressure of war, whether actual or im- 
 pending, is very different according to the different 
 circumstances of the nations engaged, or likely to 
 be engaged, in war. For instance, the pressure
 
 AXD GENERAL CULTURE. 199 
 
 of war in a country that is not likely to be in- 
 vaded, is very different from that in a country 
 which is likely to bear the brunt of the war within 
 its own boundaries. This difference will, of course, 
 very greatly affect the disposition to hinder or 
 promote war, of the different classes and persons 
 whose motives I have been considering. Again, 
 an example of the effect of this difference of cir- 
 cumstance, I may refer to what I have said about 
 the lawyers. I said that their interests were, com- 
 paratively speaking, very little touched by war. 
 Indeed, litigation, which is a kind of warfare, and 
 not the least formidable kind, may even be pro- 
 moted by a state of war. Nevertheless, when a 
 country comes to be largely invaded, and its 
 principal cities besieged, law becomes as silent 
 as Literature. 
 
 It would be almost impossible to exhaust the 
 combinations of circumstances which would tend 
 to vary the conclusions I have put forth as to the 
 proneness to, or aversion from war, in different 
 classes of the community. The utmost that can 
 be done (which, however, it is very desirable 
 should be done), is, to form some general conclu- 
 sions, and then to see how the motives I have 
 adduced as affecting different classes, will be
 
 200 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 weakened or intensified by the peculiar circum- 
 stances of each case. 
 
 I have finished, and I pause for a reply. 
 
 [There was silence for a minute or two, and 
 then Sir John Ellesmere replied.] 
 
 Ellesmere. I am not going to cavil at Mil- 
 verton's speech. In order to reply to it, if I 
 meant to reply, I should first have to make use 
 of Sandy's short-hand powers, and to request him 
 to write out in a fair and legible hand Milverton's 
 twenty - minutes' speech ; but there are some 
 points respecting which I humbly ask for further 
 facts, and more express details. Now one thing 
 occurs to me as a matter requiring fuller explana- 
 tion. I had thought that it had been generally 
 allowed that times of discord and war had pro- 
 duced great men in all branches of human effort ; 
 and, therefore, that literary, artistic, and scientific 
 personages were not called upon to protest so 
 loudly against war as Milverton supposes. 
 
 Milverton. This is a common delusion. I 
 have fought against it before, and I am ready to 
 combat it now. I appeal to great historians, as 
 to whether it is not true, as I maintain, that the 
 greater progress in Art, Literature, and Science has 
 uniformly been made during the few periods of
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 201 
 
 profound peace which this much-tormented world 
 has hitherto enjoyed. Look at what was done 
 in the thirty years following the battle of 
 Waterloo. 
 
 Sir Arthur. In Science, yes ; in Literature, 
 yes ; in Art, I doubt. 
 
 Milverton. Well, I do not pretend to have 
 any masterful knowledge of this latter subject. 
 My impression is strong, very strong, that I am 
 right ; but we will ask some one who does know. 
 We will appeal to our friend Ruskin. If he 
 decides against me, I will bow to his decision. 
 But about Literature and Science, I am firm as the 
 Fates. Do you suppose that Homer wrote while 
 the siege of Troy was going on ? Do you not 
 admit that Virgil wrote the sEneid in times of 
 peace ? Do you not see that our own great 
 writers wrote, if not in times of actual peace, in 
 times when war did not really come near our 
 shores ? 
 
 I believe in the inevitable nature of things. 
 
 Ellesmere. Of course you do ; of course we all 
 do ; that is merely one of your fine phrases. 
 
 Milverton. Well then, what I mean, is, that I 
 believe that men are always governed by the same 
 motives, and prepossessed by the same ideas. I
 
 202 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 suppose you will admit that the arts of peace are 
 preferable to the arts of war ? 
 
 Ellesmere. Yes ; but that has nothing to do 
 with the subject. 
 
 Milverton. Can these two branches of Art 
 flourish together at the same time ? 
 
 Ellesmere. I don't know ; that is the question 
 at issue. 
 
 Milverton. Do you find, Mister Objector- 
 General, that you can be absorbed by two different 
 pursuits at the same time ? Now I will come to 
 a maxim of political economy which has been 
 equally true in all ages namely, " that the supply 
 is regulated by the demand." You must know, 
 too, that the thinking power of mankind is not 
 unlimited. When warlike thought is demanded, 
 it will be supplied to the exclusion of peaceful 
 thought --of thought for the civilization and 
 comfort of mankind. I will give you a very- 
 homely instance. You go, and try any of the 
 great publishers of the day, whether they will 
 accept any literary work of yours ; and I am sure 
 the world would be delighted, in ordinary times, 
 to receive a work from the pen of Sir John 
 Ellesmere. But the publishers will now turn a very 
 cold shoulder to you, or to any other promising
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 203 
 
 young author. They will say, and say truly, " we 
 cannot get anything else thought about, while this 
 horrid war lasts." 
 
 Ellesmere. Never mind ; what a blessing this 
 war will be to future authors ! I foresee 2,379 
 histories written about it, and 8,655 novels. How 
 weary, in after days, we shall become of it ! 
 
 Milverton. I see that Ellesmere is deviating 
 into his cynical talk, and that he has no more real 
 objection to urge against my discourse. The rest 
 of you are silenced, if not convinced ; and so I, 
 for once, shall propose ending our discussion and 
 taking a walk. I can tell you it is a much harder 
 thing to make a speech to you critical fellows, 
 than even to address a weaned London audience 
 in an after-dinner speech. 
 
 Ellesmere. How artfully he rushes away from 
 the conflict, not waiting to hear all that I could 
 say against the predominance which he and his 
 friend Machiavelli would wish to be given to the 
 civil service, in which, however, he has been 
 artful enough (true touch of Machiavelli !) to 
 include us poor slaves to the public, members of 
 Parliament, about whom I have heard him before 
 now, when it suited his purpose, speak not quite 
 so respectfully.
 
 202 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 suppose you will admit that the arts of peace are 
 preferable to the arts of war ? 
 
 Ellesmere. Yes ; but that has nothing to do 
 with the subject. 
 
 Milverton. Can these two branches of Art 
 flourish together at the same time ? 
 
 Ellesmere. I don't know ; that is the question 
 at issue. 
 
 Milverton. Do you find, Mister Objector- 
 General, that you can be absorbed by two different 
 pursuits at the same time ? Now I will come to 
 a maxim of political economy which has been 
 equally true in all ages namely, " that the supply 
 is regulated by the demand." You must know, 
 too, that the thinking power of mankind is not 
 unlimited. When warlike thought is demanded, 
 it will be supplied to the exclusion of peaceful 
 thought of thought for the civilization and 
 comfort of mankind. I will give you a very- 
 homely instance. You go, and try any of the 
 great publishers of the day, whether they will 
 accept any literary work of yours ; and I am sure 
 the world would be delighted, in ordinary times, 
 to receive a work from the pen of Sir John 
 Ellesmere. But the publishers will now turn a very 
 cold shoulder to you, or to any other promising
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 203 
 
 young author. They will say, and say truly, " we 
 cannot get anything else thought about, while this 
 horrid war lasts." 
 
 Ellesmere. Never mind ; what a blessing this 
 war will be to future authors ! I foresee 2,379 
 histories written about it, and 8,655 novels. How 
 weary, in after days, we shall become of it ! 
 
 Milverton. I see that Ellesmere is deviating 
 into his cynical talk, and that he has no more real 
 objection to urge against my discourse. The rest 
 of you are silenced, if not convinced ; and so I, 
 for once, shall propose ending our discussion and 
 taking a walk. I can tell you it is a much harder 
 thing to make a speech to you critical fellows, 
 than even to address a wearied London audience 
 in an after-dinner speech. 
 
 Ellesmere. How artfully he rushes away from 
 the conflict, not waiting to hear all that I could 
 say against the predominance which he and his 
 friend Machiavelli would wish to be given to the 
 civil service, in which, however, he has been 
 artful enough (true touch of Machiavelli !) to 
 include us poor slaves to the public, members of 
 Parliament, about whom I have heard him before 
 now, when it suited his purpose, speak not quite 
 so respectfully.
 
 204 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 But I am always willing to imbibe oxygen, in 
 which, too, there may be a trace of ozone you 
 see how scientific I am becoming ; and so let us 
 sally forth in full force, being ready, with the 
 peaceful Milverton, to knock down anybody we 
 may meet who ventures to differ from us in the 
 least as regards the most effectual means of 
 putting down war. 
 
 Now, Lady Ellesmere, put on your most 
 dashing and warlike hat you women are begin- 
 ning to dress very much like general officers, and 
 are indulging largely in the feathers and frippery 
 of which I believe the cruel Milverton would 
 deprive the defenders of our soil, in order to 
 make them less attractive to the womankind ; for 
 you must know that that is the best way of 
 diminishing their power. 
 
 \Exeunt omnes. 
 
 [I subjoin a fragment of conversation which 
 took place during our walk. 
 
 Mr. Milverton suddenly said, " I should like 
 to ask you all what you think has been one of the 
 most indefensible things done in the course of the 
 present war ? "] 
 
 Ellesmere. Here comes one of Milverton's 
 vast questions, which, suddenly turning round
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 205 
 
 upon you, he asks, and which it requires seven 
 years of anxious consideration to answer pro- 
 perly. And then he insists on your giving an 
 answer on the spot ; as he did with me the other 
 day, when he would make me expose my igno- 
 rance, as regards the number of stars to be seen 
 by the unclothed eye. 
 
 Cranmer. Is it the needless destruction by the 
 Prussians of some French village ? 
 
 Milverton. No : those things are always un- 
 premeditated, and are done in passion. Un- 
 premeditated wickedness is the smallest, or at 
 least the most pardonable of all human wicked- 
 ness. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I know what it is. 
 
 Ellesmere. The two scribblers are always in 
 wonderful accord with one another. 
 
 Sir Arthur. It is the publication of the Em- 
 peror's private correspondence. 
 
 Milverton. You are right, Sir Arthur, accord- 
 ing to my notions. 
 
 You were saying, in a previous conversation, 
 what a wonderful thing social life is in a great 
 city tens of thousands of people going about 
 their business, and not more than one per ten 
 thousand seeking to attain his ends by violence.
 
 206 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 The Post-Office is not the least of the wonders of 
 this civilization. 
 
 The sacredness of letters is one of the greatest 
 triumphs of civilization. We live in an age when 
 there is too little reticence ; when publicity is the 
 rule rather than the exception. 
 
 But, at any rate, private letters are now sacred 
 with us. 
 
 Now I will admit that, in the times of the 
 Commonwealth, it was not unreasonable that the 
 correspondence between Henrietta Maria and 
 Charles the First, implying so much treachery 
 as it did, should have been made known to the 
 world. But a more abominable thing has not 
 been done in my time than the publication of the 
 private correspondence of the Emperor. It was 
 worse than a crime : it was a blunder. I place 
 a very high value upon the word "gentleman." 
 It includes the noblest ideal of honour, and not a 
 little part of Christianity. It may be a boastful 
 thing to say, but I believe that though we British 
 may not have the finest manners in the world, we 
 take a high place amongst the first gentlemen of 
 Europe. 
 
 Now there never was a more ungentlemanly 
 transaction than this publishing by the Provisional
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 207 
 
 Government of private letters, such as the letters 
 of the Empress to the Emperor. I have been 
 delighted to find that in railway-talk, and in 
 omnibus-talk, this proceeding has been universally 
 condemned in England. The true and just idea 
 of what a gentleman should do, and of what he 
 certainly should not do, permeates English society 
 from the highest to the lowest ; and I firmly 
 believe that there is not one of the reddest of 
 red republicans amongst us who would not con- 
 demn this proceeding. 
 
 [One other postscript, as it were, I must make 
 to the foregoing conversation. In the course of 
 our walk, we resumed our talk about Machiavelli, 
 saying how curiously applicable to the present 
 state of things were many of his discorsi. Sir 
 Arthur remarked, that this was always the case 
 with the writings of great men, in fact, was the 
 test of them, namely, that they could not become 
 obsolete. He said, that " while Sir John Ellesmere 
 had been studying Science, he had borrowed 
 Mr. Milverton's Tacitus, and had been refreshing 
 himself with that great author, whose descriptions 
 of the Germans were as applicable to the circum- 
 stances of the present day as anything we have
 
 208 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 had from Machiavelli." When we returned home 
 Sir Arthur showed me the following passage, 
 which I cannot withhold from my readers. 
 
 " On the same side of Germany, bordering on 
 the ocean, are the possessions of the Cimbri, a 
 reduced community, but of historic grandeur. 
 
 " Vast ruins remain to confirm their traditions 
 such as an encampment on each bank of the 
 river, having a circuit whose extent is a just 
 measure of our belief that the people, capable of 
 constructing it by their united labour, was nume- 
 rous enough to raise the armies recorded. Our 
 capital had reached its six hundred and fortieth 
 year, when it was first startled by the arms of the 
 Cimbri, in the consulship of Caecilius Metellus 
 and Papirius Carbo, from which date to the second 
 consulship of Trajan is two hundred and ten 
 years so long does Germany take to conquer ! 
 In the course of so long a period each side has 
 had its losses. Neither Samnium nor Carthage, 
 neither Spain nor Gaul, not even Parthia, has 
 read us more frequent lessons. The subjects of 
 Arsaces have proved themselves less dangerous 
 than the free warriors of Germany. What victory, 
 except the slaughter of Crassus, has Asia, which, 
 as soon as it had lost Pacorus, was struck down
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 209 
 
 by Ventidius, got to show against us ? Whereas 
 the Germans, with Carbo, and Cassius, with 
 Scaurus Aurelius, Servilius Csepio, and Cnseus 
 Manlius, all defeated, or taken prisoners, have 
 wrested five consular armies at once from the 
 Roman commonwealth, and Varus and his three 
 legions even from Caesar (Augustus). Nor was 
 it without paying dear that Caius Marius smote 
 them in Italy ; the immortal Julius in Gaul ; 
 Drusus, and Nero, and Germanicus, in their own 
 retreats. Soon after this, the gigantic threats of 
 Caius Caesar (Caligula) ended in a ridiculous farce. 
 Then followed peace ; until, profiting by our fac- 
 tions and by our civil war, they stormed the winter 
 quarters of our troops, put Gaul in jeopardy, and, 
 although they were repulsed in that undertaking, 
 lose, to this day, more battles in our despatches 
 than in the field."]
 
 210 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 CHAPTER VII. 
 
 [A NEIGHBOUR, who lives at some distance, came 
 over to see us, and was kind enough to ask any 
 of us, who were fishermen, to come and fish 
 with him in some water that he had taken in 
 the Itchen. Sir Arthur, Sir John, and myself, 
 went. About the results of the fishing I would 
 rather not speak. Sir John and Sir Arthur have, 
 as it seems to me, no skill in the piscatorial art. 
 I think I have ; but Sir John would keep close 
 to me, in order to have somebody to talk to, and 
 to disentangle his line for him ; and he seemed 
 to think that noise and movement were attractive 
 to the fish. A conversation that took place, as we 
 we driven home, was very interesting to me ; and 
 it led to a change of our proceedings in the next 
 conversation at home. Sir Arthur remarked to 
 Sir John Ellesmere, " How very good Milverton's 
 speech was the other day ! "]
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 21 1 
 
 Ellesmere. I am sorry, Sir Arthur, I can't 
 agree with you at all. I am sure I am as fond 
 of the man as though he were not my brother-in- 
 law ; but, to confess the truth, the speech seemed 
 to me very poor and ineffective. In the first 
 place, it was manifestly a got-up affair. It had all 
 been conned over thoroughly beforehand. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I do not see any harm in that. 
 
 Ellesm-ere. Well, perhaps not. Anyhow, it 
 did not interest me. I put in some objections 
 pro forma, and in order that he might see I had 
 been paying due attention. But now I will tell 
 you my real objection to the whole thing. Mil- 
 verton is a politician ; by which I do not mean 
 he is a party-man, but he expects great results in 
 a matter of this kind, such as the prevention of 
 war, by means of political handling. I do not 
 expect any such results. You think me a very 
 unromantic individual ; but I hold, that if any 
 great thing is done in this most important matter, 
 it is more likely to be accomplished, even by some 
 stirring book, or by the speechifying of some 
 ardent enthusiast, such as a Peter the Hermit ; 
 by some peaceful crusade, as it were ; or by the 
 formation of some sect. I can't tell you exactly how 
 it will be done ; but it will be by something very
 
 212 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 different from manoeuvring class against class, 
 patting one on the back, and discouraging another. 
 
 There is a very eminent person of the present 
 day, to whose splendid talk I never listen with 
 any pleasure. It always seems to me unreal ; like 
 the gibbering of ghosts, if there are such beings. 
 This same effect was produced upon me by this 
 speech of Milverton's, which you admire. In a 
 word, I did not care to answer it, even if I could 
 have done so. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I really think, Ellesmere, you 
 are too hard upon it ; and often, though I know 
 you are half in joke, you seem to me to come 
 down upon Milverton too severely. 
 
 Ellesmere. No ; in reality I am more amused 
 by him, and interested in him, than any of you. 
 I must tell you what he said to me yesterday, 
 in the greenhouse Milverton is always more 
 alive when he is in an atmosphere where the 
 thermometer ranges from 87 to no . I have 
 often thought, that, if I were in any very great 
 difficulty, and wanted good advice, I would send 
 for Milverton ; put him into a heated oven ; and 
 hear what he would say upon the subject sub- 
 mitted to him. If he ever says anything good, 
 it is when the weather is very warm. However,
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 213 
 
 he really said a very good thing. I was more 
 pleased with it than with anything I had heard 
 him say for the last three years. Perhaps it was 
 because it hit me very hard. You may not see 
 anything in it, Sir Arthur. 
 
 We were talking, as usual, about the war ; and 
 he diverged into the general subject of quarrelling. 
 He said a number of very strange things about it. 
 The one that struck me most was this. He was 
 describing the course of a quarrel, of which one 
 person's ill-temper was the principal cause ; and 
 he said, it would soon end but for one thing, 
 namely, that the aggressive person cannot make 
 it up with himself; and so he goes on raging, 
 and raving, and laying down fresh lines for future 
 quarrel. He could forgive you, the other side, 
 easily enough : it is himself he cannot forgive for 
 having shown his temper and begun the thing. 
 That is what makes him so cross. How swiftly 
 peace would be made between them if the other 
 side could understand or imagine this feeling. 
 The main art for a passionate man to acquire, is, 
 the forgiveness of himself in the first instance. 
 
 When he uttered these sayings, I felt as 
 though I had received a blow ; for all that he 
 said came so home to me.
 
 214 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Feeling guilty, I turned to take a look at 
 Milverton's face, to see if I could discern whether 
 he meant to allude to me when he gave this 
 instance of how quarrelling fails to be broken 
 off at the first outset. But he had taken up 
 a tortoise, and was philosophizing about the 
 creature. " Look, Ellesmere," he said, " at this 
 much-underrated reptile. Even naturalists, who, 
 like biographers, are not prone to underrate the 
 merits of the creatures they write about, have 
 little to say in favour of the moral and intellectual 
 qualities of the tortoise. I cannot maintain that 
 it has an arched and noble brow. But see what 
 high qualities this reptile is manifesting at the 
 present moment : for instance, Faith, based 
 upon Experience and Judgment. In general, it 
 is a most timid creature ; but it has discovered, 
 that when this monster, myself, takes it up, it is 
 for the purpose of petting ; and consequently it 
 stretches out its little head to be stroked, and 
 fixes its brilliant little eyes upon me confidently. 
 Observe, still further, it is mumbling my finger 
 affectionately. It can bite most severely. In 
 this action, it shows that it possesses the rudi- 
 ments of the highest fun, wit, and humour, such 
 .as they appear in mankind. It makes as if it
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 215 
 
 would bite, and doesn't bite. It appreciates, 
 perhaps without having read Locke's works, 
 Locke's definition of wit, and knows that there 
 must be unexpectedness in it. It thinks that I 
 shall expect to be bitten, and that there will be 
 fun in its not biting. What great gifts have been 
 given to every creature, even to the meanest ! And 
 then, too, it is so fond of music, and would attend 
 the Philharmonic with the most discriminating 
 pleasure." 
 
 Having heard enough about the merits of the 
 tortoise, and not relishing a temperature of at 
 least 88, fearing, too, lest Milverton should 
 return to the subject of quarrelling, and should say 
 something that would hit me still harder, I slunk 
 away quietly. 
 
 However, to return to the subject of quarrel- 
 ling, I am sure that one often goes on " raging 
 and raving," as Milverton expressed it, because 
 one is so angry with oneself for having begun to 
 rage and rave. 
 
 Sir Arthur. It is a subtle remark ; but I do 
 not feel as much struck by it as you are. 
 
 Ellesmere. You have a much more composed 
 and well-balanced nature than I have, Sir Arthur. 
 But don't you agree with me, Sandy ? Have not
 
 216 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 you, in your persevering Scotch way, heaped 
 coals upon the fire, merely because you were 
 disgusted with yourself for having lit the fire 
 at all ? 
 
 Johnston. Oh, I thoroughly understand what 
 you mean, Sir John. What you say puts me in 
 mind of a feeling I often had in my boyish 
 quarrels. 
 
 Ellesmere. I tell you what we will do. 
 Before you began to favour us with your 
 company, Sir Arthur, we used to get Milverton 
 to write an essay, and then we used to comment 
 upon it. Let us do the same thing now. We 
 will get Milverton to write us an essay on 
 quarrelling. It will be sure to apply, more or 
 less, to the present war, and will give pith and 
 point to our conversations on this subject. 
 
 Besides, it will amuse Milverton ; and I pity 
 him very much just now. Everything is going 
 against him. Think what must be the dismay in 
 his mind at the present state of affairs. For 
 years he has been apprehensive about some 
 general European war being inflicted on man- 
 kind. You were not with us, Sir Arthur, when 
 he used to oppress us with long essays about war, 
 which, to my poor thinking, seemed, at the time,
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 217 
 
 rather irrelevant. I am sure that he must be very 
 down-hearted now. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I don't perceive it. 
 
 Ellesmere. I do. There is a film of dis- 
 appointment coming over his mind. You must 
 notice how much more he listens to Mauleverer, 
 without opposing him, than he used to do. Of 
 course, being such an obstinate fellow, he will go 
 on talking and writing and speaking about his 
 favourite themes ; but I know, from something 
 that he said to me the other day, that he has less 
 heart and hope than he used to have. It is a 
 good trait in these obstinate fellows, that even 
 when they are sodden with ill-success, they go on 
 just the same, as if they were upborne by good 
 success ; but then the energy to do so is all taken 
 out of themselves, as it were. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I don't quite understand you. 
 
 Ellesmere. Oh, don't you know that when 
 work is prosperous, or likely to be prosperous, it 
 does some of itself for itself ? 
 
 Sir Arthur. That is a queer theory. 
 
 Ellesmere. It is a true one. Prosperous work 
 brings with it the energy for the work. Unprosper- 
 ous work has to pump up, as it were, all the 
 requisite energy for the work out of the worker.
 
 218 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 What a continually amusing thing the study of 
 character is ! Now, for the life of me I could not 
 go on hammering at one set of ideas, and always 
 taking the same side. I don't mind confessing to 
 you, Sir Arthur, that when I have argued on one 
 side of a case, doing the best I can for my client, 
 I should often like to jump up on the other, and 
 bowl over a few of my own arguments. If I 
 were Milverton, I should set to work to show 
 forth the wonderful beauties and advantages of 
 war : I should scout sanitary science, and point 
 out the blessings of dirt and disease : and I 
 should show the merits of inhumanity to animals. 
 No ; I don't think I could do that ; but I could 
 take the opposite side in all the rest-of Milverton's 
 favourite topics. But he can't, poor fellow ! and 
 to speak metaphorically whether it rains or 
 whether it shines, he will go on in his course to 
 the end of the chapter. 
 
 It is a grand thing to have something of a 
 lawyer in one's composition. The reason why we 
 fellows live so long, and are such a lengthened 
 blessing to the world, is, that we do not fret our 
 souls and derange our minds by harping on one 
 strain of thought. We are very wise people, 
 in our generation, I can tell you. By the way ;
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 219 
 
 talking of our cleverness reminds me that I 
 promised to explain to you why Milverton 
 praised the Treaty of Paris, the other day. I 
 know what he meant. It was not the main part 
 of the Treaty of Paris, but a sort of codicil to it 
 a Declaration which was made at the Congress, and 
 which was, indeed, a great advance in civilization. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I don't know to what you 
 allude. 
 
 Ellesmere. I can tell you ; for I had to give 
 an opinion about the operation of a certain clause 
 in it. It is a very short affair. 
 
 [Sir John then gave us the substance of the 
 following clauses, to the exact words of which he 
 afterwards referred me. 
 
 " i. Privateering is, and remains, abolished. 
 
 " 2. The neutral flag covers enemies' goods, 
 with the exception of contraband of war. 
 
 " 3. Neutral goods, with the exception of con- 
 traband of war, are not liable to capture under 
 enemy's flag. 
 
 " 4. Blockades, in order to be binding, must 
 be effective ; that is to say, maintained by a force 
 sufficient really to prevent access to the coast of 
 the enemy." 
 
 For the remainder of the drive they continued
 
 220 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 to talk about the Treaty of Paris. When we got 
 home, we persuaded Mr. Milverton to set about 
 writing an essay upon quarrelling, which I read to 
 them a day or two afterwards. This is the 
 essay : 
 
 QUARRELLING. 
 
 The man, not being a hermit in the Thebais, 
 or a saint on a pillar, who says he will never 
 quarrel, is a very foolish person. There are 
 even such things as judicious quarrels quarrels 
 of deliberate choice, not the children of anger or 
 of necessity. That wisest of Lord Chamberlains, 
 my Lord Polonius, does not bid Laertes never 
 quarrel, but merely says : 
 
 Beware 
 Of entrance to a quarrel. 
 
 And, indeed, it is a thing to be very wary of, and 
 mainly on account of the bystander. That third 
 person who, in general, and with so much reason, 
 prides himself upon his disengaged wisdom as a 
 looker-on, is apt to be woefully wrong in his 
 judgment of a quarrel. Moreover, it is nearly 
 certain that he will condemn both parties ; and so 
 it is clear that you will do yourself some damage
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 221 
 
 in his repute of you by any entrance into any 
 quarrel. For what bystander is industrious 
 enough to consider, with all the labour that a 
 just judgment requires, the causes and motives 
 of the quarrel ? 
 
 Ofttimes he is totally deceived, and places the 
 balance of wrongfulness upon that party or person 
 who is least to blame. This occurs when there 
 have been a series of insults, slights, or disparage- 
 ments, patiently borne by the one side, which 
 side, in the quarrel that the bystander happens 
 to witness, seems to have broken out into an 
 unreasonable passion upon a very trivial cause. 
 It is as when one sees a river, that has long 
 gone underground, break out suddenly, and the 
 beholder says, " Here is a rush of waters from 
 some mysterious origin," little knowing for how 
 long a course the quiet river has flowed under- 
 ground, augmenting its volume from many 
 hidden springs. Sometimes it seems almost a 
 fatality, that the most injured person should 
 break out into quarrelsomeness upon a most, 
 apparently, inadequate occasion. It reminds one 
 of the old story of the last feather that breaks 
 the camel's back. For these reasons a quarrel 
 is greatly to be eschewed, inasmuch as it is
 
 222 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 nearly certain to lower your repute with the 
 bystander. 
 
 Still there are quarrels which should resolutely 
 be entered into, on deliberate purpose. Strange 
 to say, and lamentable to say, domestic quarrels 
 are of this kind. To use a common phrase, they 
 " clear the atmosphere ; " and, moreover, it is to 
 be remembered, that almost any state of things 
 is better than quiet dislike, or growing disgust. 
 It is but too true that lovers may be made more 
 ardent, friends more friendly, associates more 
 willing to listen to our just claims, by an occa- 
 sional quarrel. But then, as everybody knows, 
 these quarrels must be very rare. 
 
 One of the most important things to be borne 
 in mind while considering this subject, is, that 
 most quarrels are quarrels that depend upon 
 words. These form the main substratum of all 
 contentiousness. You may do a man a sub- 
 stantial injury, and be easily forgiven. But 
 utter only one injurious word, and there is a 
 fine opening for a quarrel. Also, in the conduct 
 of the quarrel, there is nothing so much to 
 beware of as the use of injurious words. Some 
 people transact a quarrel so neatly that they 
 invariably appear to be in the right. Exaggera-
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 223 
 
 tion is always punished, and never more speedily 
 than when employed in the transaction of a 
 quarrel. If possible, when in presence of your 
 adversary, understate your case against him ; and, 
 as regards the nicety of your expressions, talk as 
 you would have talked, if both of you were 
 wearing swords. 
 
 There is one thing respecting quarrels, which 
 is almost too obvious to need mentioning ; and 
 yet it is worth while mentioning it, if the doing 
 so would impress its utility upon any one hiiman 
 being. Quarrelling, as a rule, partakes of anger ; 
 anger, as certainly, partakes of unwisdom. If, 
 therefore, to use the common expression, you 
 are resolved to " have it out " with somebody 
 who has offended you, the first thing to be 
 resolved upon, is, to allow a little time to elapse, 
 if only a few hours, before you begin to attack 
 the offender. There is probably no greater 
 surprise of the every-day kind occurring to men, 
 than the surprise which they must feel, if they 
 observe their own minds carefully, at the differ- 
 ence in their sentiments with regard to any 
 trouble or offence, according to the time at which 
 they take up the consideration of it. At first, 
 as we all know, the offence occupies the whole
 
 224 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 extent of the mental vision. In a very short 
 time it begins to recede into its proper place, 
 and is one thing out of many which are within 
 the presence of the mind, instead of being the 
 one thing. That hackneyed illustration, which 
 must be very suitable to mankind because it is 
 so hackneyed, namely, the Sibyl's Books, is appli- 
 cable here also, though in a very different sense 
 from that in which it is usually applied. Post- 
 ponement, in this case, is sure to reduce the 
 weight and number of the books of glowing 
 words in which the original offence is written. 
 In the days of our forefathers, when blood-letting 
 was one of the curative methods most in vogue 
 upon any disturbance of the nervous system, it 
 would, doubtless, often have been a very judicious 
 thing to be bled after receiving any great offence. 
 In our age which is, I suppose, medically speak- 
 ing, wiser to postpone taking any notice of the 
 offence is the only means left for subduing the 
 unreasonable affections of the mind, now that 
 blood-letting is entirely discarded. 
 
 In treating of this subject, much account is 
 to be taken of the differences of men's tempera- 
 ments ; and there are few of their attributes in 
 which they differ more largely and more pro-
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 225 
 
 foundly. There is the man of hardened tempera- 
 ment, who can go to sleep in ten minutes after 
 a severe quarrel ; and there is the sensitive man, 
 who frets for days and nights after he has had 
 a quarrel, even with some indifferent person, and 
 though he holds himself to have been entirely in 
 the right, and has no touch of remorse in the 
 matter. Such a man should avoid even, what I 
 would call, business-like and sensible quarrels, for 
 they create an atmosphere which he cannot imbibe 
 with comfort or safety ; whereas the hard man 
 will make good profit out of them. 
 
 To show how different are the temperaments 
 and the natures of men, as bearing on the subject 
 of quarrelling, an instance may be taken from the 
 conduct of two brothers, which was related by 
 the third brother. " My elder brother," he said, 
 " is admirable in conducting a quarrel, or a 
 difficult matter tending to a quarrel, if he is per- 
 mitted to conduct it in writing only. Moderation 
 seems to flow from his pen in exquisitely judicious 
 sentences. If, however, we trust him with an 
 interview, it is all over with our cause, and we 
 are involved in a hopeless turmoil of offensive 
 disputation. With my younger brother, the case 
 is exactly opposite. The gentlest, the justest, 
 
 15
 
 226 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 and most persuasive of men (also with the requi- 
 site amount of firmness), when dealing with his 
 fellow-men in an interview, he is a veritable Turk, 
 if you trust him alone with pen, ink, and paper, 
 and he does not see about him the human face 
 divine." 
 
 Now the foregoing is a most significant fact. 
 There are people who should never dispute upon 
 paper ; and there are others who should never 
 dispute viva voce. There have been eminent 
 statesmen who have been totally ignorant of 
 their own qualifications in this matter ; who have 
 written when they should have spoken, and 
 spoken when they should have written. 
 
 The common saying, that it takes two to make 
 a quarrel, and the much deeper saying of the 
 Spaniard, that the man who makes the rejoinder 
 who says the third thing is the man upon 
 whose shoulder the quarrel rests, are both of 
 them true sayings. I venture to carry the 
 thought still further, and to maintain, that, in 
 most cases, if you can make it up with yourself, 
 you can almost immediately make it up with 
 your opponent. That is, in the accidental 
 quarrels, which are, of course, by far the most 
 numerous. What happens is, that you say or
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 2:7 
 
 do something which you secretly regret ; but 
 your regret turns to anger, and you go on enlarg- 
 ing your saying, or your doing, almost from spite 
 against yourself. Make friends with yourself, 
 and you will soon find that you can make friends 
 with your opponent. 
 
 Then there are the quarrels that arise from 
 affection, are nurtured by affection, and are among 
 the most difficult to bring to a happy issue. 
 Coleridge, in his Christabel, has admirably de- 
 scribed this kind of quarrel. 
 
 Alas ! they had been friends in youth ; 
 But whispering tongues can poison truth ; 
 
 And constancy lives in realms above ; 
 And life is thorny ; and youth is vain : 
 
 And to be wroth with one we love, 
 Doth work like madness in the brain. 
 
 The last cause, however, that he names, is, in 
 most cases, the prevailing one. Its strength lies 
 in this : that you think the person you love 
 has no right to offend you. You could bear 
 everything from an enemy, but not from him. 
 Csesar covered his face with his mantle when he 
 found Brutus among the conspirators. If we 
 were sincere with ourselves, we should own that 
 we think the claims of Love and Friendship
 
 228 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 ought to be stronger than the claims of Justice 
 and Truth. 
 
 There should be a certain perfection aimed at 
 in the conduct of a quarrel, if it is to lead, as 
 it ought always to lead to a reconciliation. There 
 should be no root left from which another quarrel, 
 similar in nature to the original one, could possibly 
 grow up. I. need hardly remark, that, if this maxim 
 applies with some force to the disputes of indi- 
 viduals, it applies with a great deal more force 
 to the disputes and quarrels of nations and 
 for the following reason ; an individual is but 
 a short-lived and transitory creature. A patched- 
 up quarrel may sufficiently serve his or her 
 purpose, even when it is evident that, both 
 parties surviving, the quarrel must break out 
 anew. But the case is very different with nations, 
 for they are long-lived creatures, and a root of 
 discord left (although what is visible of the 
 evil thing above ground, is swept off) is nearly 
 certain to produce a renewal of the dispute, 
 and probably of war, to the arbitrament of which 
 national disputes are ultimately referred. 
 
 All the best maxims for the conduct of warfare 
 and negotiation, apply to the management of a 
 domestic quarrel. As in warfare, build a bridge
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE, 229 
 
 for the enemy to escape over, as it makes him 
 retreat much sooner ; and always remember that 
 your if is a. great peacemaker. Give your 
 opponent the full benefit of that potent little 
 word. Then, as in negotiation, do not half state 
 your case, or the quarrel will have to be gone 
 over again. Timidity of statement is as much 
 to be avoided as exaggeration. When I said, 
 " understate your case," I meant your case as 
 against your opponent. Do not understate your 
 own claim ; but understate his neglect of it. 
 Rather assume that he has not been as wicked as 
 he has been in ignoring your affection, your 
 merits, or your dignity. (Good Heavens, how 
 men will quarrel about their dignity !) 
 
 If there is any time in a man's life when, what 
 generosity of nature he may have is especially 
 serviceable to him, it is in the midst of a quarrel. 
 Say but one generous or kind thing, and it is 
 wonderful how soon it will be responded to. This 
 is to be expected ; for the warmth evoked by a 
 quarrel, will rush very rapidly towards any offer 
 of conciliation. It is from this circumstance that 
 quarrels are occasionally most useful, as develop- 
 ing a warmth, which burns up long-continued 
 petty causes of dislike or disfavour. Coldness is
 
 230 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 the result of most poisons, and the cause of most 
 deaths, in the world of affection as in that of 
 physical life. 
 
 In preventing, conducting, or getting out of 
 a quarrel, most useful aid is to be found in the 
 exercise of imagination. It is an effort of imagina 
 tion only that can enable you to appreciate fully 
 the claims and motives, and especially the passions 
 and prejudices, of the other side. For this reason 
 never quarrel with a stupid man or woman, if you 
 can possibly avoidit, as such a person will never 
 for a moment be able to realize your conception 
 of the matter in dispute, and will, therefore, never 
 make due allowance for you. If you are obliged 
 to quarrel with a stupid person, endeavour to 
 contrive that he should be represented, or at least 
 accompanied, by a clever person, who may aid 
 him in understanding your view of the quarrel. 
 So largely is imagination useful in the prevention, 
 or in the wise conduct, of a dispute, that it would 
 hardly be too much to assert, that a man of the 
 highest order of imagination would find the 
 greatest difficulty in quarrelling at all. One feels 
 that Shakespeare could hardly have quarrelled 
 with anybody, because he would have had such 
 a keen dramatic sense of the feelings of the other
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 231 
 
 side, that from pity and good-nature he would 
 have been sure to have yielded the point at 
 once. 
 
 Again, if you wish to avoid quarrelling, be 
 pleased to entertain the profoundest belief of the 
 extreme inaccuracy of men, women, and children, 
 as regards the repetition of what they hear. 
 Hearsay is the fruitful parent of many of the 
 most malignant quarrels that infest mankind. 
 
 When negotiation leads to quarrelling, it 
 mostly happens in this way : A demand is 
 made by one side ; it is held to be utterly un- 
 reasonable by the other ; and a counter-demand 
 for retractation is sent back. The retractation is 
 not made in full. On the contrary, though the 
 original demand is somewhat modified, it is 
 substantially made again. The counter-demand, 
 applying to the modified, as well as to the 
 original proposition, is renewed. By this time 
 both parties have become rather warm. There 
 are a few more negotiations, ending at last in a 
 hearty quarrel. 
 
 Or, to take another instance, a demand is 
 made on one side ; is not utterly refused ; is even, 
 indeed, accepted by the other side, but with 
 -certain modifications, which, when submitted to
 
 232 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 the party originally making the demand, are 
 deemed to be important. This party does not 
 appreciate the comparatively friendly reception of 
 his original demand ; thinks by pressure to get 
 more ; and renews the original demand. The 
 other side, finding no recognition of his friendli- 
 ness, becomes haughty and stiff, and returns an 
 answer less favourable, at least in expression, 
 than his first one. And so there goes on a 
 constant interchange of unacceptable propositions. 
 In short, in this case, as in the preceding one, the 
 giving way on either side is not done handsomely. 
 Thus, upon the balances of difference, sometimes 
 amounting only to very small quantities, the 
 negotiation takes the form of a quarrel. And so 
 mighty nations, as well as little boys in the street, 
 rush into fighting. It is worth while to see how 
 it happens amongst these boys in the street. 
 " Put your foot there if you dare," says one boy 
 to another. The other boy does not put his foot 
 there, but to near there ; and after another 
 challenge or two of the same nature, neither 
 frankly received nor frankly declined, the negotia- 
 tion turns into active combat. The same thing 
 occurs in domestic life ; and, when you hear of 
 people leading a cat and dog life (very unjust,
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 233 
 
 this metaphor to dogs and cats, who, when they 
 live together, mostly come to amiable conclu- 
 sions !) it is that neither side maintains its own 
 resolutely, or gives way handsomely. Of course, 
 the ultimate reason of this state of things is pride, 
 or the desire to appear consistent in the eyes of 
 the bystander. The greatest quarrels that have 
 arisen on the face of the earth, have been arrived 
 at by one or other of the methods above de- 
 scribed. 
 
 I have now endeavoured to show you how, in 
 my opinion, you should avoid a quarrel ; how 
 you should enter into it ; how you should hold 
 your ground in it ; by what means you should 
 conduct it; and, especially, how you should get 
 out of it. Any knowledge concerning the last 
 clause of the foregoing sentence is worth all 
 the rest. 
 
 [Mr. Milverton had to leave the room before 
 I had finished reading the essay, as a neighbour 
 had called to see him upon some parish business. 
 After I had finished my reading, the essay was 
 discussed, and was generally approved, even Sir 
 John Ellesmere saying that it certainly kept close 
 to the subject. Then Mr. Cranmer spoke.]
 
 234 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Cranmer. I was thinking, all the time, wherever 
 does he get his facts and instances from. He is 
 the least quarrelsome of mortal men. When I 
 was in office, I had some very tough things to 
 settle with him, and had to oppose him vehe- 
 mently, but he never quarrelled with me. 
 
 Ellesmere. He is too much in the clouds, for 
 a great part of his life, to have much spare time 
 or attention to devote to quarrelling with us poor 
 creatures, who wisely abide upon the solid earth. 
 He can be very passionate, as we have seen 
 lately, but not quarrelsome. And then he would 
 think it so very undignified just like Sir Arthur, 
 who is far too great a " swell " to quarrel with 
 anybody, if he can possibly avoid it. 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. I do not see why John 
 should seek a second-rate motive, to account for 
 an unquarrelsome disposition. I suppose he 
 thinks that all men are naturally as contentious 
 as he is. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Cranmer has raised a great 
 question which has often perplexed me. Con- 
 sider the great writers of fiction. What an 
 affluence of characters there is in their writings. 
 I mean such writers as Shakespeare, Scott, Moliere, 
 Dickens, Thackeray, George Eliot, and the rest
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE, 235 
 
 of them. Where do they find these characters ? 
 Is it Experience ? is it Imagination ? If it is the 
 conjunction of the two, what are the limits of 
 each ? 
 
 Ellesmere. Perplex yourself no more, Sir 
 Arthur ; I can explain it all thoroughly. My 
 
 recent scientific studies 
 
 [Enter MILVERTON. 
 
 Milverton. Is Ellesmere beginning to take 
 upon himself the airs of a scientific man ? 
 
 Ellesmere. I am merely explaining to them 
 where the great writers, such as Shakespeare, Scott, 
 and Dickens, and where the small writers, such as 
 Milverton, take their characters and their examples 
 from. The study of the Infinitesimal explains 
 everything. What they do take, is a germ-cell ; 
 and when you have read as much as I have read 
 about these interesting little atomic structures, 
 you will know what they can be made to do, if 
 properly developed. But, without joking, I will 
 explain to you what I think happens to these 
 men, and I will take a particular case. Scott, 
 sitting in court as " the sherra," witnesses the 
 manifestation of some oddity, or some peculiarity, 
 some trait of greatness or of smallness, in man or 
 woman (and, out of court, I would add "in dog").
 
 236 CONVERSATIONS ON IV A R 
 
 This is the germ-cell for him. Coming into his 
 mind, it has fallen into the proper nidus for 
 development. Once he has seen or heard a 
 .Saddletree take the greatest interest in a cause 
 not pertaining to him ; and the whole of the 
 Saddletree character is almost at that moment an 
 accomplished fact in his mind. So, with some 
 trait of his faithful Purdie, such as when that 
 trusty henchman vehemently contended that cer- 
 tain trees should not be cut down, whereas Sir 
 Walter as vehemently declared that they should, 
 and at the end of their walk together Purdie says, 
 " I think I'll tak' your advice, Sir Walter ; " there 
 was a germ-cell of Andrew Fairservice in Rob 
 Roy, and of Richie Moniplies, of Castle Collop, 
 in the Fortunes of Nigel. The pertinacity, and 
 the abounding self-conceit of these two well- 
 drawn characters, were all contained in some such 
 germ-cell. I hold with Locke, a favourite writer 
 of Milverton's, who learns from him to dive down 
 even into the abstruse nature of tortoises, Nihil 
 esse in intellectu, quod non prius erat in sensu, 
 that, in fact, there is no knowledge but that which 
 has its origin in experience. 
 
 Milverton. I beg leave to differ entirely. 
 
 Sir Arthur. And so do I.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 237 
 
 Ellesmere. What a foolish fellow I am to get 
 involved in metaphysical subtleties, when I might 
 have kept to Science, and abided by incontro- 
 vertible experiences. However, you now know 
 what I mean, and I ask, is my theory a good one, 
 or is it not ? 
 
 Sir Arthur. I think it is a good one. 
 
 Milverton. The poor author is impatient to 
 hear what his critical friends will say about the 
 essay. 
 
 Ellesmere. We were all very laudatory ; we 
 all agreed that it might have been better, but that 
 it was not so bad. 
 
 Milverton. Such hearty praise entirely rewards 
 me for the pains I took in writing it. 
 
 But I want now to illustrate some of the 
 statements I made in the essay, by referring to an 
 account of a quarrel, which I believe to be the 
 best account of any quarrel that has ever been 
 given in Literature I need hardly say that it is 
 the quarrel of Brutus and Cassius, in Shakespeare's 
 Julius Cczsar. Here is the volume of Shake- 
 speare, which I took care to have by me. First 
 observe how soon the quarrel deviates from 
 things into words, and also how these words are 
 misrepresented 'by both of the persons quarrelling.
 
 238 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Judge then how many quarrels must arise from 
 hearsay and its misrepresentations. Cassius 
 says : 
 
 I am a soldier, I, 
 
 Older in practice, abler than yourself 
 To make conditions. 
 
 Upon this saying of Cassius, the quarrel instantly 
 grows much warmer. It is shortly afterwards that 
 Brutus says : 
 
 Away, slight man ! 
 
 You will find, if you read this scene aloud, that 
 from the time when Cassius has said 
 
 I am a soldier, I, 
 Older in practice, 
 
 to the time when Brutus misquotes him, the inter- 
 vening words would not take much more than a 
 minute to read. 
 
 Brutus. You say, you are a better soldier : 
 
 Let it appear so ; make your vaunting true, 
 And it shall please me well : For mine own part, 
 I shall be glad to learn of noble men. 
 
 Then Cassius corrects this misrepresentation ; 
 but you must especially observe that he mis-
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 239. 
 
 represents what he had previously said, and is 
 not at all confident as to what he did say. 
 
 Cassius. I said, an elder soldier, not a better : 
 Did I say, better ? 
 
 Now what he did say, was " older m practice, 
 abler than yourself to make conditions " as 
 being the more worldly-wise of the two, as Cassius 
 would naturally think. 
 
 Then observe another point. This quarrel 
 would never have been got over, without an 
 interview. Writing letters would only have made 
 matters worse. I can't prove that from any 
 particular passage ; but I feel that I am right 
 in making the statement. 
 
 Lastly, come to the main point. How is it 
 that the quarrel comes to an end ? Only by 
 Cassius ceasing to contend, and not indulging in 
 denunciations, but in lamentations that are almost 
 abject. 
 
 There is my dagger, 
 And here my naked breast ; 
 
 ***** 
 I, that denied thee gold, will give my heart : 
 Strike, as thou didst at Caesar ; for I know, 
 When thou didst hate him worst, thou lov'dst him better 
 Than ever thou lov'dst Cassius. 
 
 Brutus is immediately mollified. All the
 
 240 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 warmth that had been aroused by anger, deviates 
 into tenderness, and the reconciliation of the 
 two friends is one of the most touching things 
 ever written, even by Shakespeare. I remember, 
 when I was a child of six years old, that it was 
 one of my first reading lessons, and I hated read- 
 ing it, exceedingly, for I always felt inclined to 
 cry over it. 
 
 Ellesmere. Of course, we have seen how, in 
 this essay, you have made some allusions to the 
 terrible war we are at present witnessing, as, 
 for instance, when you speak of the necessity of 
 extracting every root of the cause of quarrel, 
 applying your remark especially to the quarrels 
 of Nations. I wish now to make an observation, 
 to which I think you are bound to give some 
 answer. You admit that, as regards private and 
 domestic quarrels, there should be some prepara- 
 tion for them. Should there not also be some 
 preparation for national quarrels, especially when 
 they are perceived to be inevitable, or, at any 
 rate, highly probable ? 
 
 Sir Arthur. He is right, Milverton, I do 
 not wish to say anything rude ; but I think you 
 yourself will admit, that in the present state of 
 Europe, it is verging on the Utopian to imagine
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 241 
 
 that you can persuade any two or three of the 
 principal nations to agree to a reduction of arma- 
 ments. I do not say that the time may not come, 
 when your pacific theories may possibly enter 
 into practice; but surely the present is not that 
 time. 
 
 Milverton. I am sure you will admit that 
 you have not often met a human being who has 
 a more thorough detestation of war than I have, 
 or a greater dislike to needless preparation for 
 it. I object to the maxim, Si vis pacem, para 
 be Hum. I do not say, "If you want peace, prepare 
 for war ; " but I am obliged to confess that there 
 are occasions when a nation must say to itself, 
 " You can hardly expect to avoid war ; and if 
 you wish to prevail in war, you must prepare for 
 it." A nation may see that it has entered into 
 such treaties and guarantees ; also that its colonial 
 possessions maybe of such an extended character; 
 that, with every disposition for maintaining peace, 
 it cannot reasonably expect to be let alone. Then, 
 having an almost moral certainty that it will not 
 escape conflict, or at least to give a menace, which 
 will be futile unless the means of carrying out 
 that menace are close at hand, it ought to prepare, 
 and must prepare, for war. The great defect of 
 
 16
 
 242 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 modern statesmanship has been the not looking 
 far enough forward. Statesmen have often been 
 as well contented as members of the Stock Ex- 
 change, to arrange their transactions for the next 
 month, and to look no further. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I liked what you said, Milver- 
 ton, about the quarrels of affection. I suppose 
 you had in your mind not only private quarrels 
 of that sort, but the quarrels of nations as well. 
 If the Americans loved us less ; if they did not, 
 indeed, value our regard more than that of all 
 the world besides ; they would not be so huffy 
 with us. And, on the other hand, if we did not 
 care far more for them than for all other nations, 
 we should not be so vexed at their huffiness, and 
 be prone to be huffy in return. 
 
 Milverton. For my own part, I can never 
 view an American otherwise than as a fellow- 
 countryman, once removed. I see very little 
 essential difference between him and one of our- 
 selves. I fancy but perhaps this is a fancy 
 that he speaks a little nasally. He tells me but 
 perhaps this is a fancy on his part that I do the 
 same. But his thoughts are as my thoughts, 
 except, perhaps, in one thing, that he dotes 
 upon extension of territory, and that I certainly
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 243 
 
 do not. I should feel it to be a sort of murder 
 to kill an American, even in battle. I should, 
 perhaps, be killing a man who is the exact counter- 
 part of myself. I believe, as you know, intensely 
 in race. There are, doubtless, Milvertons in 
 America ; and this very man whom I might kill, 
 might be, as I perhaps am, an exact resemblance 
 in nature, form, and character, to some common 
 
 ancestor. You know our friend R . In his 
 
 dining-room, just behind where the master of the 
 house sits, there is the portrait of an ancestor 
 who lived in the times of Charles I. I declare, if 
 our friend were called out of the room unobservedly, 
 and it were not for the difference of dress, the 
 man in the picture might descend and take his 
 place at the dinner-table, and no one of the guests 
 would find out the difference. And so it might 
 be with me, and some American cousin of mine 
 both of us being exactly similar chips of the 
 same old block. And then, (for these desperately 
 unlucky things occur in real life as well as in 
 novels), I am to kill this counterpart of myself. I 
 decline to do so, or to run the chance of doing so, 
 if I can possibly avoid it. 
 
 Ellesmere. I must tell you a droll idea that 
 has come into my mind. The two Milvertons would
 
 244 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 be the two most indolent men in their respective 
 armies. They would affect to be very courageous, 
 for indolent men are always afraid of their indo- 
 lence being mistaken for want of courage. They 
 would, accordingly, be well to the front. They 
 would, however, be lying down, having made a 
 kind of sofa of baggage and knapsacks. Then 
 they would take what are vulgarly called " pot 
 shots " at one another. But this pleasing occupa- 
 tion would be occasionally interrupted by their 
 making notes for future essays, or for Thoughts 
 on the Present Campaign, or for a great work on 
 The Folly of Soldiering. Both of them being 
 bad shots, very little harm would be done either 
 way, but they would furnish great amusement to 
 the armies. And, as nothing promotes good 
 fellowship so much as laughter on a common 
 subject, they might be the means of making a 
 lasting peace. Observe, that Milverton, much 
 as he detests war, does not decline to go to 
 battle with any other people than his dear 
 American cousins. 
 
 Milverton. Never mind his nonsense. The 
 greatest, and the most dangerous error, that at 
 this moment besets the European family of 
 nations, is that Englishmen, Scotchmen, and
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 245 
 
 Irishmen do not love fighting. Being rather a 
 sombre race (at any rate the English and the 
 Scotch), nothing would delight us more than 
 fighting. For war, whatever may be its evils, 
 chases away dulness. And, as for the Irish, they 
 love fighting for the fun of it. They are always 
 anxious to find the " jontlemen who will have the 
 kindness to tread on the tail of their registered 
 paletots." And no people in the world fight 
 better. 
 
 But we are all restrained by the fear of doing 
 something very wrong, in going to war. To 
 speak the honest truth, and in words not common 
 in these mealy-mouthed days, our rulers, and all 
 those who could throw in their influence for war, 
 are dreadfully afraid of being damned for doing 
 so. They have come to the belief, that God 
 does not approve of war ; and therefore they will 
 not be driven into it except by stern necessity. 
 But, granted the existence of that necessity, and 
 that the burden of a tender conscience be removed 
 from the British mind on its entrance into any 
 war, the great mass of the British people are as 
 merry as crickets. I have watched this feeling in 
 my fellow-countrymen ; and, to say the truth, in 
 my own self.
 
 246 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Ellesmere. You are quite right, Milverton ; 
 even Cranmer, on such occasions, has no objection 
 to a loan a transaction which absolutely horrifies 
 him in other times. It all comes from our like- 
 ness to Fairy. I do really think that no English- 
 man thoroughly understands his fellow-country- 
 men, unless he has kept a bull-dog. Without any 
 joking, bull-dogs are wonderfully like us. They 
 are the least interfering of animals. Observe 
 Fairy. She follows at our heels, wrapped in a 
 surly kind of enjoyment ; never going up to other 
 people, never yappeting at the heels of horses. 
 In fact she is a silent, steady, industrious kind 
 of dog, who would get a prize for minding her 
 own business. But once make that business war, 
 and see with what animation, with what deter- 
 mination, and with what joy, this solid creature 
 goes into action. Then, contrast the conduct of 
 our greyhound, Rose, who has something to say 
 to every cur she meets, and not always a friendly 
 saying ; who makes her way into every shop ; 
 pokes her nose into people's hands, to see if there 
 is anything for her ; and will absolutely startle and 
 horrify two young lovers, by rushing in between 
 them, and almost saying to them, " What folly 
 are you going to commit ? " Whereas, Fairy
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 247 
 
 passes them by contemptuously, only hoping 
 that they may some day quarrel, and that she 
 may be obliged to take a side. 
 
 Cranmer. If Ellesmere once gets upon the 
 subject of dogs, it is very difficult to stop him. 
 
 [The conversation was here interrupted by 
 the arrival of the second editions of the morning 
 papers. There had been a battle, and the letters 
 of the correspondents teemed with descriptions of 
 the horrors of the battle-field after the engage- 
 ment. We could talk of nothing else. Mr. Mil- 
 verton then gave us a description of the photo- 
 graphs of some battle-fields in America, which 
 had been sent to his friend Dickens, and which 
 they had looked over together. I now resume 
 an account of the conversation as it proceeded.] 
 
 Milverton. I need hardly tell you that we were 
 horror-stricken as we looked over these things. 
 
 We thought, that much as photography has 
 done for the world, the best thing it had ever 
 accomplished was these photographs, as they 
 are such potent dissuaders from war. We 
 thought so then. If my dear friend were alive 
 now, he would probably agree with me that the 
 world seems to have entered into such a career 
 of madness that nothing can stop its folly.
 
 248 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Sir Arthur. I should like to have been with 
 you. Dickens would have been sure to make 
 such shrewd remarks. 
 
 Milverton. He did. He pointed out how the 
 dead men all lay upon their backs, and he noticed 
 a peculiar swelling of the body that was visible in 
 all of them. But what I am always thinking of 
 in these times, is not the dead, but those who are 
 left wounded fatally wounded on the battle- 
 field ; and not even so much of their physical 
 agonies, as of what may be their thoughts as they 
 lie untended for hours, perhaps for days, slowly 
 stiffening into death. 
 
 Cranmer. Mayhap they think but little. 
 Milverton. With many it may only be pain 
 masterful pain, the pain of a wounded animal 
 that absorbs the whole mind of the dying man ; 
 but if any one of them thinks away for a moment 
 from his pain, what must be his thoughts ? It is 
 not likely that he has read his Shakespeare ; but 
 surely the thought, if not the expression, of the 
 dying Mercutio comes to his lips " A plague o' 
 both your houses ! " and he roughly curses in his 
 inmost soul both King and Kaiser. No longer 
 buoyed up by hatred (there never, perhaps, was 
 much of that feeling in him), and no longer even
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 249 
 
 supported by excitement, the whole madness of 
 the thing he has been concerned in, is revealed 
 to him. Indignation consumes his soul, an indig- 
 nation more profound than that of the dying 
 gladiator, who thought of his " young barbarians 
 at play ; " an indignation more profound, I say, 
 because he, the dying soldier, has had, or seems 
 to have had, some particle of free-will in the 
 matter. He has, at least, shouted forth vain- 
 glorious boastings, and has joined in all that 
 tavern exultation which forms such a ludicrous 
 and horrible prelude to serious warfare. But all 
 this seems to him now to belong to a former state 
 of existence, and to have been transacted in 
 another world. For now, wisdom, ever-halting, 
 mostly too late, has come upon him hand-in-hand 
 with death ! 
 
 Perhaps there is a sound of music in the 
 camp of his own comrades, which his feeble voice 
 cannot reach. They are merry there, and he 
 hears the song which he, too, had often joined in 
 singing at the tavern and on the march ; but its 
 strains are not so inspiriting as they were then, 
 and are but a mockery of his sufferings. 
 
 Is he a lover ? He thinks of her. It is not 
 always of their sorrowful parting that he thinks ;
 
 250 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 for that strangely errant and ungovernable thing, 
 memory, carries him back, perhaps, to some fond 
 hour, hitherto forgotten, as when, one summer 
 day, she threw wild flowers in his face while they 
 were walking by the river-side, and was shy, and 
 would not come as near to him as he wished ; but 
 never looked more beautiful. There is a strange 
 complacency in his mind at the thought that he 
 will be so much mourned over by her. If this 
 bleeding would but stop, he would scribble some- 
 thing to her, at least write her name. But it is 
 so cold, and he must sleep for a few minutes. 
 He will write her name when he awakes. But 
 he never does awake. 
 
 Is he a son, too young, perhaps, to have been 
 smitten very deeply with love for a maiden ? His 
 dying thoughts are wholly with his mother. No 
 one scene, either of dread parting or of playful 
 affection, brings her image before him, for, from 
 his mother it has been continuous love ; and it is 
 the fond recollection of his whole short life-time, 
 shared with her, that is present to his mind at 
 once. Her grief, which he knows will not cease 
 until her life ceases, is no consolation to him. 
 
 Is he a husband, and a father ? His are the 
 bitterest feelings. There is no consolation here
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 251 
 
 at least, no earthly consolation. What a world 
 this is, in which he leaves those dear ones, is but 
 too clearly manifest to him from the way in which 
 he has been made to depart from it. It would be 
 a temptation worthy of the Arch-Tempter him- 
 self, standing by that dying soldier, to try what 
 portion of his soul's welfare he would imperil, so 
 that he might be permitted to behold his wife and 
 children once again, if only in this dying hour. 
 He listens for aid to come : to him life is still 
 inexpressibly dear. He hears the galloping of 
 horse ; but his trained hearing knows that this 
 is only the quick pursuit of friends or foes, and 
 not the approach of any aid for him. The cold 
 wind makes its strident noise amidst the reeds ; 
 he watches them bend before it ; and it is, 
 perhaps, the last thing that he sees or thinks 
 about. 
 
 Some, the least fatally wounded, have spare 
 thought for a fellow-sufferer lying near, and crawl 
 to aid him ; but the most part are lost in an over- 
 powering pity and sorrow for themselves. And, 
 besides, they are so thirsty. 
 
 There is in all their minds, whether they are 
 sons, husbands, or lovers, a pervading sense of 
 horrible ill-usage ill-usage, by whom they
 
 252 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 scarcely know or care ; but, had they energy, they 
 would be inclined to curse the universal nature 
 of things. 
 
 And oh, my God ! how I wish that some of 
 those who are the prime causers of all this agony, 
 could themselves suffer some of the agony they 
 cause. But no : they are away in snug rooms, 
 telegraphing accounts of victory, or summoning 
 for slaughter new levies to their aid. Their time 
 has not yet come. 
 
 Mauleverer. And thus great Nations are 
 welded together, and historians write grandly 
 about this welding ; and the grass is very green 
 in certain spots of the earth's surface ; and every- 
 thing is quite satisfactory in this " best of all 
 possible worlds." 
 
 [There was no more conversation after this, 
 to-day, worth recording; and so I close the 
 chapter.]
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 253 
 
 CHAPTER VIII. 
 
 [THE original purport of these conversations has 
 been greatly changed. At the time they com- 
 menced, it was hoped that the termination of the 
 war between France and Prussia would not long 
 be deferred. Mr. Milverton had prepared his 
 views upon several subjects connected with 
 general culture, and had hoped to discuss them 
 with his friends. But general culture has, com- 
 paratively speaking, faded away from men's 
 thoughts ; and people now, in almost every 
 quarter of the globe, can hardly think of anything 
 else but war, present or to come. 
 
 We were all assembled in the study, and there 
 had been the discussion which takes place daily 
 upon obscure telegrams of obscure battles, a dis- 
 cussion ending in nothing but hazardous conjec- 
 tures. Mr. Milverton was evidently in very bad 
 spirits ; and Sir John Ellesmere, to comfort him,
 
 254 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 had reminded the friends of a metaphor which 
 Mr. Milverton had often used on previous occa- 
 sions. He had said, the advance of civilization 
 is like the advance of the in-coming tide, which, 
 for any given moment, appears to the bystander 
 to be as much of a retreat as of an advance ; but 
 still the tide comes on. Sir John asked him 
 whether the metaphor did not still hold good.] 
 
 Milverton. One is very loth to give up a 
 metaphor which has become a favourite one for 
 oneself ; but I hardly venture to say that I could 
 use it now. The world seems to me to have 
 gone mad of late years. I picture to myself some 
 superior being looking down upon us, and I think 
 what he would say. " Here are these poor 
 wretched creatures, men ; ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill- 
 housed ; not having as yet attained the first 
 elements of civilization ; and they must employ 
 all their spare time, thought, and energy in tear- 
 ing one another to pieces." Almost the worst of 
 it is, that we cannot imagine a superior being 
 making any of these severe comments upon our 
 doings, which should be other than commonplace 
 remarks. We know it all, just as well as he does. 
 We, at least those of us who have any pretension 
 to the power of thinking, think as I conjecture he
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 255 
 
 would. But nothing in the way of remedy occurs 
 to any of us. For my own part, I can only go 
 back to what I have said a hundred times before. 
 And it appears to me like a doleful old song, 
 which a bewildered sick man goes on droning out 
 to wearied listeners ; and the attendants at the 
 bed-side say to themselves, "If he were in health 
 again, he would sing to us some other song, for 
 we have heard this a hundred times." 
 
 Ellesmere. Let us hear the song for the 
 hundred and first time. 
 
 Milverton. Well, all the present mischief 
 seems to me to arise from certain wild and 
 mistaken ideas, which governing people have 
 taken from time immemorial, of what are the 
 duties, and what should be the object of govern- 
 ment. It is the old story over again, that some 
 wonderful felicity will accrue to mankind from the 
 accretion of certain territories under one headship, 
 subject to one form of government. If a well- 
 known and admirable suggestion of Lord Mel- 
 bourne's, addressed to certain fussy people of his 
 time, had been adopted by sundry governing 
 persons who have had great power for the last 
 ten years, it would have been a grand thing for 
 the world. " Can't you leave it alone ? " was
 
 256 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 what he was wont to say; and if they had left 
 it alone, how wisely they would have acted. 
 
 Ellesmere. Lord Melbourne, as far as I know 
 anything about him, was a man after my heart. 
 He seemed to me to have an element of wisdom 
 in him ; a kind of wisdom which has gone out 
 of fashion in the present day. I have no doubt 
 that there are many things which these governing 
 persons, whom you allude to, would have done 
 well to leave alone. What other defects, or 
 superabundancies, have you to note in them ? 
 
 Milverton. It is an extraordinary remark to 
 make, but I think it is a true one, that there is a 
 total absence of generosity in the dealings of 
 States with one another, and even in the dealings 
 of individual Governments with the sections of 
 people under them. I would make an exception 
 for our own government, because it has, several 
 times, in the course of the last half-century, given 
 examples of singular generosity ; but I can seldom 
 find a trace of this generosity elsewhere. 
 
 Mauleverer. I should be much obliged by 
 your telling me what we have ever done that is 
 generous. 
 
 Milverton. Our conduct in the abolition of 
 slavery was generous. Our attempts, of late
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 257 
 
 years, to conciliate Ireland have been generous. 
 Our free-trade policy is generous. I am one of 
 those who are convinced that free-trade triumphed, 
 not so much because it was thought to be for our 
 own interest, as because it was thought to be 
 just ; and the classes who supposed that they 
 should surfer most, ultimately resolved to bear 
 that suffering, on the ground that the policy in 
 question would conduce to the public good. I 
 could give other instances of generosity, but these 
 will suffice to illustrate what I mean. 
 
 But there has been a terrible want of generosity 
 to be seen throughout the political world in modern 
 times. What a splendid opportunity for generous 
 behaviour Louis Napoleon had at one time, but 
 never used it. I am the last person to run down 
 that prince, for whose conduct throughout his 
 difficult reign there is a great deal to be said both 
 in praise and in extenuation ; but I always thought, 
 and have not waited for his downfall to express 
 my thought, that he missed a golden opportunity 
 of showing himself a great man, when he 
 retained power beyond the time that had been 
 allotted to him as President of the Republic. 
 
 Everywhere there has been a great misuse of 
 power. I call it a great misuse of power, when a
 
 258 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 powerful State absorbs smaller States, upon next 
 to no provocation. I never shall be brought to 
 see the especial beauty, or loveliness, of great 
 Empires thus formed. It is clear that we have 
 not yet passed through the robber era of the 
 world ; and that Christianity has not made any 
 effectual resistance to Fraud and Force. 
 
 Mauleverer. Yes : we are still thorough 
 barbarians ; and your folly, my dear friend, is in 
 not having found it out long ago. 
 
 Milverton. I deserve this reproach for having 
 over-stated my case. Christianity has made a 
 stout resistance to the evil passions of mankind, 
 and has even had some effect upon the conduct 
 of nations towards one another, at any rate, has 
 had some effect upon their mode of conducting 
 warfare. Captured garrisons are no longer put 
 to the sword ; women have been respected in 
 this war. 
 
 Ellesmere. The innocent are only starved, 
 not put to death ; and the excuse of " the necessities 
 of war " is always put forward when a village or a 
 town is burnt. 
 
 Milverton, What grieves me, what makes 
 me desponding, what I cannot see my way out of, 
 is this that the thoughts and wishes of the really
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 259 
 
 cultivated men of the world have so little influence 
 upon the conduct of national affairs. This failure 
 of just influence greatly arises from that terrible 
 centralization which many of you think to be so 
 fine a thing. A few people get into their hands 
 the management of the material wealth, and 
 other resources of a Nation. Their interests, their 
 amusements, their objects, are essentially different 
 from those of the masses of the people whom they 
 govern. This statement has nothing to do with 
 the form of government. It is frequently as true 
 of a republic as of an absolute monarchy. The 
 poor peasant does not amuse himself with diplo- 
 macy, he only pays for it; not only with his 
 money, but often with his blood. Two crafty 
 persons, highly placed, set to work to . contend 
 with one another, to see which of them can 
 make the country he sways greater, or rather 
 bigger, than the other country ; and the fortunes of 
 millions of people are played away in the most 
 reckless manner by these transcendent gamesters. 
 We, I mean we British people, are at this 
 moment suffering from that which has been one 
 of the severest causes of suffering in all ages. 
 Everybody pays a huge price, and has ever paid 
 it, for being a little in advance in civilization and
 
 260 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 humanity of those persons who surround him. 
 Almost all martyrdom simply means this. The 
 prophets, and the martyrs, and the wise men who 
 cannot conceal their wisdom, all suffer in the same 
 way. And the same rule applies to Nations. We 
 have come to the conclusion, rather late in the 
 day, but still anticipating other Nations, that 
 conquest is a dangerous thing, and that the 
 accession of territory does not always bring 
 strength. We are, therefore, peaceable. I believe 
 that there is scarcely a man amongst us, certainly 
 not a thinker, who would not willingly say we 
 have territory enough, and perhaps more than 
 enough, to govern well, and that we may now 
 devote ourselves to that which ought to be the 
 main business of all government namely, the 
 welfare of the individuals governed. But there 
 are States that are far behind us in thought 
 upon these matters, and which still believe that 
 there is some wonderful joy and delight to be 
 found something which will raise the individual 
 as well as elevate the Nation in the accretion of 
 territory. 'Themistocles said that he could not 
 fiddle, but that he could make a small State into 
 a great one. I must say that I think something 
 may be said for the fiddler ; and that, if he were
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 261 
 
 a good fiddler, he was perhaps a more serviceable 
 citizen even than Themistocles. 
 
 Ellesmere. I admit that there is something 
 in what you say ; but you will persist in over- 
 looking a motive a very plausible motive 
 which has great influence with the persons whom 
 you most condemn. It is, that they suppose that 
 safety is coincident with the greatness, or, to use 
 your word, the bigness, of a State, and that this 
 safety will ensure peace. 
 
 Milverton. I admit that it is quite right to 
 remind me of this argument in favour of the huge 
 follies and wickednesses of governing people. 
 But I contend that it is a fallacious argument. 
 You may distribute, or redistribute, territory in 
 any way that you please : you may set up, or put 
 down, the Pyrenees : you will not thereby produce 
 peace that is, unless you advance to either of 
 the two extremes which are not the least likely, 
 at any rate in our time, to become realities. A 
 universal Empire means peace. In the best times 
 of the Roman Empire, as I have shown you before 
 now, the peace of Europe, of Asia Minor, and 
 of what was known of Africa, was maintained by 
 300,000 soldiers, who may almost be looked upon 
 as having been policemen.
 
 262 CONVERSATIONS ON IV A R 
 
 Again, if you could imagine Europe to be 
 divided into small States, and the de-centraliza- 
 tion, which I know you think I dote upon, to be 
 carried into effect, peace would be maintained 
 with, comparatively speaking, small armies ; and 
 the wars would, at any rate, be petty. There 
 would not be these huge conflagrations of war. 
 
 Now you are often taunting me (by you I 
 mean Ellesmere and Mauleverer) for my being 
 unpractical ; for my being an enthusiast ; for my 
 taking Utopian views. I now mean to carry the 
 war into your own country. Are you not un- 
 practical, enthusiastic, and Utopian, if you mean 
 to contend that the results of the present 
 ambitions of certain European Nations will lead 
 inevitably to peace ? 
 
 Sir Arthur. I think Milverton has you there. 
 
 Cranmer. Yes. I don't agree with Milver- 
 ton in many things ; but I must own that he 
 makes a palpable hit when he asks Ellesmere 
 and Mauleverer whether the present state of 
 things promises peace. 
 
 Mauleverer. My good people, / never said 
 that I approved of the present state of things, 
 or of any state of things that, as far as I can see, 
 can be brought about upon this earth. I merely
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 263 
 
 protest against Milverton's dreams. I do not 
 support any other dreamer. 
 
 Ellesmere. Pray do not suppose that I think 
 that any conglomeration of individuals, whether 
 large or small, will produce wisdom in the 
 governors, or the governed, among those in- 
 dividuals. 
 
 Milverton. I am very much pleased to have 
 brought you both to this point. It leaves a free 
 field for me. 
 
 Ellesmere. Yes ; but what do you propose ? 
 What remedy have you in view ? 
 
 Milverton. Well, my only remedy is to 
 go on endeavouring to prove to mankind that 
 they should not suppose that any great good 
 will happen to them from being massed into 
 large Nations ; that the thought of the world, as 
 at present directed, does not lead to the main- 
 tenance of peace, does not tend to ensure the 
 comfort and happiness of private individuals. 
 Tyranny ever follows in the wake of war ; and, 
 if you wish to be allowed to think, or to act, with 
 that reasonable amount of freedom which ought 
 to belong to every private individual, you are 
 endangering that freedom of thought and action 
 when you do anything that tends to promote war.
 
 264 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Ellesmere. I know that you often think my 
 remarks are irrelevant and absurd ; and, some- 
 times, when I am most in earnest you think I am 
 most in joke. But I hold that the greatest part 
 of the miseries of human life proceed from dulness. 
 Some people are dull, and they must molest other 
 people to get rid of their dulness. War is a most 
 interesting game ; and those who have the power 
 of playing at it, will play at it, unless they can be 
 interested in some other way. 
 
 Sir Arthur. 
 
 '' War is a game which, were their subjects wise, 
 Kings would not play at." 
 
 Milverton. There is something in what Elles- 
 mere says ; only I should make the important 
 alteration of substituting the words want of culture 
 for dulness. 
 
 Now I will state the matter in somewhat of 
 an abstract way. In any great war there are 
 about twenty or thirty persons who may be 
 charged with having been the prime movers of 
 it. They are, for the most part, kings, statesmen, 
 diplomatists, writers, and great speakers. Most 
 of them are middle-aged or elderly gentlemen. 
 According to the average value of life, they have 
 about twelve or fifteen years' expectation of it.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 265 
 
 One would really think that they might employ 
 these twelve or fifteen years a little better than in 
 concerning themselves with war. But the real 
 fact is, that most of them, except the writers, are 
 very ignorant. They know nothing of Science ; 
 they know little of Literature : of real statesman- 
 ship, too, very little. Many of them, I daresay, 
 have scarcely realized the fact of which Science 
 has informed us, that this planet is a very small 
 and insignificant body, and that to rule over a 
 little more or a little less of it, is not a thing to be 
 proud, or to be ashamed of. I remember that 
 Jean Paul says, "On travelling from one village 
 to another, the path appears as long to us as to a 
 mite which creeps on a map from the name of one 
 to the name of another ; and to loftier spirits our 
 sphere may, perhaps, be a globe for their children, 
 which is turned and explained by their tutor." If 
 you could once implant in the minds of these 
 governing men a love of individual culture ; if you 
 could show them what a poor thing it is for a 
 man to pass through this life, knowing nothing of 
 the laws of nature, nothing of all the wonders of 
 the world (for though this planet is small it is 
 very wonderful) ; they might see that there is 
 some knowledge worth their while to acquire
 
 266 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 before they quit this world. I hold with Goethe, 
 that there is no such thing as waste in creation. 
 I cannot believe but that it will profit a man's soul 
 hereafter to have gained knowledge during its 
 residence here ; and the souls of many of those 
 men who have had great opportunities in this world, 
 will find themselves very bare and shivering, and 
 as uncultured as the souls of those who have had 
 fewest opportunities in this world, when they 
 come to enter into another state of being. 
 
 These, however, you may well say, are but 
 mere fancies. I rest, however, on solid ground 
 when I say, these men who promote war might 
 find a much higher ambition for all their energy 
 and all their talents. 
 
 [Here Mr. Milverton was called out of the 
 room.] 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. I am only going to say what 
 I believe Leonard would have said for us women 
 if he had not been interrupted. I know he would, 
 for he has said something of the same kind 
 before. 
 
 I am not one of those women who have any 
 notion of seizing power from men. I do not 
 blame the efforts of many of my sex who are 
 endeavouring to gain a more reasonable recogni-
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 267 
 
 tion of our talents and our powers : but there are 
 several of their objects with which I do not sym- 
 pathise ; and I fully admit the mental superiority 
 of men. Yet this I do say, that I most earnestly 
 believe that if we had more political power, or, 
 at least, more political influence, it would be 
 well used. 
 
 In the first place, we are more pitiful than you 
 men. I believe that the anguish caused by this 
 present war has entered more deeply into the 
 souls of women than of men. 
 
 Well then, again (I hope you will not think 
 me presumptuous), we are less likely to be led 
 away by what you men call " great ideas." I 
 have never heard, or at least only once in my life, 
 any woman of any nation express a wish for 
 increased territory. Our circle may be more 
 confined ; but within that circle I do think that 
 we take a wiser view of things in general. We 
 are more oppressed by. a sense of the real diffi- 
 culties of life. We care more than you men do, 
 that the people about us should be well housed, 
 and well clothed, and well fed. Everywhere the 
 woman is the person, in almost every household, 
 who looks most anxiously to the physical well- 
 beine of the household. And this, I contend,
 
 268 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 carries with it a wisdom of its own. Brother 
 Leonard sometimes has an air of patronizing us 
 in what he says, and I think he hardly does us 
 justice. In reality, we are his best supporters ; 
 and if ever his diatribes against war have any 
 success, it will be through us women. 
 
 Ellesmere. I have nothing to say against your 
 remarks, my dear. I admit that your sense and 
 judgment are admirable as regards those affairs 
 that come justly within your province, and I 
 acknowledge that you are eminently practical. 
 I am quite willing, when there is a council of war 
 held by us savages, that the squaws should have 
 a voice in the proceedings. 
 
 For my own part, I don't mind telling you what 
 horrifies me most in war. Now don't exclaim, 
 when you have heard what I have got to say, 
 " Oh, that's so like Ellesmere ! He always takes 
 a perverse view of every question." I say, then, 
 that what I detest most in war is the cruelty to 
 the animal creation. My mind is full of pity for 
 those good creatures, the horses. They have had 
 nothing to do with the causes of war ; their vote 
 has not been taken ; but they have to bear not 
 the least share of the agony. I sometimes regret 
 that mankind ever succeeded in taming horses.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 269 
 
 I think, too, that if we had to do all the draught- 
 work ourselves, there would be much less incli- 
 nation to go to war than there is at present. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I should be contented if the 
 men who promote war really took a fair share of 
 the danger, and ran the risks of private soldiers. 
 I think it is perfectly monstrous that a man 
 should, as it were, blow the trumpet, and yet keep 
 in the rear. 
 
 Ellesmere. My dear Sir Arthur, you must not 
 think me rude ; but really, you imaginative men 
 do put forth most unreasonable propositions. You 
 want those whom you call " promoters of war " 
 to partake the dangers of the common soldier. 
 Now, in many cases, these promoters are the 
 commanders of armies. Surely, the duty of a 
 general a sacred duty, in many instances, for 
 the preservation of his own soldiers is to keep 
 $ut of harm's way. Except in extraordinary 
 instances, his sword is worn only for form's 
 sake. 
 
 Sir ArtJmr. I must own that there is some- 
 thing in what you say, Ellesmere. 
 
 Mauleverer. Nobody can accuse the first 
 Napoleon of want of courage ; but, if I recollect 
 rightly, he was only wounded once, and then by
 
 270 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 a spent ball, which hit his boot. No, it is inevit- 
 able that these " promoters of war," who, as Mil- 
 verton justly described them, are kings, statesmen, 
 authors, diplomatists, and orators, must inevitably 
 keep out of harm's way. This is one of the many 
 infelicities of mankind, which, as I often tell you, 
 cannot be avoided. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Well, then, Ellesmere, what do 
 you propose ? I must say, and /, too, do not 
 wish to be rude, that you object to everything, 
 but propose nothing. 
 
 Ellesmere. I have nothing distinctly to pro- 
 pose. Nay, more, I believe I talked nonsense to 
 you the other day, Sir Arthur, when I said that 
 if ever war were put down, it would be by some 
 great movement some kind of crusade of which 
 I did not see my way to specifying the nature. 
 I have thought since of what I said then, and I 
 am inclined to believe that the desired object wilU 
 not be accomplished in that way. There is, I 
 suspect, nothing to be done in this matter but 
 bringing thought gradually to bear upon the. 
 whole subject. Milverton is horribly disappointed 
 because the writings of Bastiat, Erckmann-Cha- 
 trian, and others, of course including his own, seem 
 to have had so little effect in their generation.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 271 
 
 [Here Mr. Milverton entered the room.] 
 I am saying that you are horribly disappointed, 
 Milverton, because the writings of sundry enthu- 
 siastic persons who have written against war, have 
 had so little effect in their own time. I think you 
 show an unreasonable impatience in expecting 
 these writings to have an almost immediate effect. 
 Recollect, that to produce any great effect on 
 any question in which the world is interested, 
 many thousands of people have to be convinced. 
 You writers are always so impatient for visible 
 results. You think, when you have proved any- 
 thing to your own satisfaction, that all other 
 persons must forthwith acknowledge the truth of 
 your conclusions, and must proceed to act upon 
 them. And must proceed to act upon them, I 
 repeat; for you seem to forget the inevitable 
 delay and hesitation which mostly take place 
 between intellectual conviction and practical action 
 upon that conviction. 
 
 I mean to be very encouraging in what I say 
 now upon this matter. Go on writing and pro- 
 testing, and storming, if you like, against the evils 
 of war ; but all I say is, do not expect immediate 
 results. Your time will come, not, perhaps, in 
 your own age
 
 272 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Mauleverer. Which is, no doubt, a great satis- 
 faction 
 
 Ellesmere. But that time will come. No effort, 
 that is worth anything, is ever lost. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Yes ; as Byron says 
 
 For freedom's battle, once begun, 
 Bequeath'd by bleeding sire to son, 
 Though baffled oft, is ever won. 
 
 Milverton. We all know that there is a great 
 deal of truth in what Ellesmere says. Moreover, 
 we may take some comfort from what has hap- 
 pened in the world's history in similar cases. 
 There has been some great evil some world- 
 wide folly such as duelling, or judicial torture, or 
 persecution for religious opinions. The horrid 
 evil has gone on, apparently without any abate- 
 ment in many generations, when all of a sudden 
 the evil thing has fallen away from mankind, like 
 a garment which no longer fits, and you are un- 
 able to say, " who has done this ? " No doubt 
 thousands of persons have been concerned in the 
 doing. 
 
 Therefore I say, with the sanguine Ellesmere, 
 let us go on writing and protesting, and, to use 
 his phrase, storming against the evils of war, 
 being sure that in good time some grand result
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 273 
 
 will come of all our labours which hitherto appear 
 to have been so lamentably fruitless. 
 
 Ellesmere. I must have a last word. Milver- 
 ton has quoted from Jean Paul to-day. He 
 (Milverton) once made me read a work of the 
 said Jean Paul. It did not quite suit my common- 
 place nature, which pines for distinct statements 
 clearly enunciated. But I was much struck by 
 the wealth of metaphor which the good German 
 expended in his work. One of these happy 
 metaphors has ever since remained in my mind ; 
 and, oddly enough, it was only last evening, 
 when we passed a pond in our homeward walk, 
 that this metaphor recurred to me. Jean Paul 
 says, " The frogs cease croaking when a light is 
 placed on the banks of the pond." That is all 
 you want light and a great many things besides 
 the croaking of frogs (which, for my part, I rather 
 like) will cease, when once a sufficient light is 
 brought to bear upon them. 
 
 18
 
 274 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 CHAPTER IX. 
 
 [I ADD a short chapter, recording a conversation in 
 the afternoon of the same day on which the fore- 
 going conversation took place. 
 
 Lady Ellesmere had been telling Mr. Milver- 
 ton what she had said in the morning about 
 women being his best allies in the general crusade 
 against war. " Yes," said Sir John ; " Pope says 
 that ' every woman is at heart a rake.' I don't 
 know whether that is true ; but I admit that every 
 woman is at heart a quakeress, except in the 
 article of clothing."] 
 
 Milverton. The best human beings of the 
 present day, the women, are in full accord with 
 the greatest, or, at least, the shrewdest men of 
 past times. I am tired of always giving you my 
 own poor thoughts upon this horrid subject, war. 
 Yesterday evening I solaced my soul by looking 
 round these bookshelves, and taking down works 
 which I knew would have something in them that
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. . 275 
 
 would be entirely consonant with my feelings on 
 the subject. What a blessing books are, seeing 
 that one can always choose one's companions 
 from amongst them, in whatever mood one hap- 
 pens to be ! 
 
 Ellesmere. Yes ; you can pass by the Opera 
 Omnia of Ellesmere, of which, however, I do not 
 see a large paper copy in this room ; and you can 
 take down your Sir Arthur On the Becoming, or 
 your Cranmer on the Loveliness of Taxation ; and 
 you can revel in community of thought with these 
 great authors. And, moreover, you can shut 
 them up the moment that you find they are 
 beginning to disagree with you. 
 
 Milverton. There was one book I did shut 
 up. It was Sir William Temple's works. I was 
 dreadfully disappointed at finding that he was 
 only partially on my side. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Let us hear what the others 
 said. 
 
 Milverton. I will begin with that great Italian 
 historian, Guicciardini. He says : 
 
 " No mortal thing should Man more desire, 
 neither attribute to a higher Felicity, than to 
 behold his Enemy prostrate upon the Earth, and 
 reduced to such a Condition, that he hath him at
 
 276 , CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 his discretion. But the more Felicitous is he to 
 whom this doth chance, the more is he bound to 
 render himself Glorious, by using it in a laudable 
 manner; that is, to show Clemency, and to par- 
 don ; which is the especial Quality of Generous 
 and Exalted Spirits. 
 
 " Those Undertakings and Affairs, which are 
 not to be expected to fall through any sudden 
 shock, but through consuming and wasting away, 
 draw out to a much greater length than is believed 
 at first ; because, when men are obstinately deter- 
 mined to endure, they endure and sustain much 
 more than would be believed. Wherefore, we see 
 that a War, which is to be finished by Famine, by 
 Inconveniency, by Lack of Money, or the like, 
 runs off farther than would be believed. As it 
 often happens with one who is dying of a Phthisic, 
 that his Life doth always prolong itself beyond 
 the opinion of the Physicians. Thus a Mer- 
 chant, before he fails through being consumed by 
 Usury, doth always stand a longer Time than was 
 believed." 
 
 Now I have before ventured to commend to 
 Count Von Bismarck and to M. Jules Favre, 
 some passages similar to the foregoing, which I 
 was fortunate enough to find in Machiavelli ; but
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 277 
 
 I am afraid that my lucubrations had not much 
 chance of reaching the ears of those potent per- 
 sonages. And if they had reached them, I believe 
 I might as well have suggested to the east wind 
 to be gentle and consolatory ; to young men, not 
 to fall in love with the wrong person ; to old men, 
 to approve of their sons making moneyless mar- 
 riages ; to statesmen, to abjure expediency ; to 
 lawyers, to say nothing in favour of their clients 
 but what they thoroughly believe to be true ; and 
 to learned Churchmen, to avoid subtleties ; as to 
 recommend such wise conduct, as Machiavelli 
 counsels, to the combatants on either side. 
 
 Ellesmere. Don't abuse my friend Bismarck, 
 but give us some more extracts. 
 
 Milverton. I will now give you three from 
 Voltaire, in an excellent article which he wrote in 
 his Dictionnaire Philosophique : 
 
 " Vers le Canada, Jiomme et guerrier sont 
 synonymes ; et nous avons vu que dans notre 
 hemisphere, voleur et soldat ^taient meme chose. 
 Manicheens ! voila votre excuse. 
 
 " Le merveilleux de cette entreprise infernale, 
 c'est que chaque chef des meurtriers fait bdnir ses 
 drapeaux et invoque Dieu solennellement, avant 
 d'aller exterminer son prochain.
 
 278 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 " Mise"rables medecins des ames, vous criez 
 pendant cinq quarts d'heure sur quelques piqures 
 d'^pingle, et vous ne dites Hen sur la maladie qui 
 nous de"chire en mille morceaux ! Philosophes 
 moralistes, brulez tous vos livres. Tant que le 
 caprice de quelques hommes fera loyalement 
 e"gorger des milliers de nos freres, la partie du 
 genre humain consacree a rheroisme sera ce qu'il 
 y a de plus affreux dans la nature entiere." 
 
 Ellesmere. How admirably the fellow writes ! 
 Now that is the kind of writing I like, in which 
 there is transparent clearness. 
 
 Milverton. Now I must trouble you with a 
 passage from Swift. It is in the Travels of Gul- 
 liver amongst the Houyhnhnms. He is informing 
 his master about the warlike proceedings in 
 Europe. The Houyhnhnm remarks : 
 
 " ' In recounting the numbers of those who 
 have been killed in battle, I cannot but think you 
 have said the thing which is not.' 
 
 " I could not forbear shaking my head and 
 smiling a little at his ignorance. And, being no 
 stranger to the art of war, I gave him a descrip- 
 tion of cannons, culverins, muskets, carabines, 
 pistols, bullets, powder, swords, bayonets, battles, 
 sieges, retreats, attacks, undermines, countermines*
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 279 
 
 bombardments, sea-fights, ships sunk with a thou- 
 sand men, twenty, thousand killed on each side, 
 dying groans, limbs flying in the air, smoke, noise, 
 confusion, trampling to death under horses' feet, 
 flight, pursuit, victory; fields strewed with car- 
 cases, left for food to dogs, and wolves, and birds 
 of prey ; plundering, stripping, ravishing, burning, 
 and destroying. ... I was going on to more 
 particulars, when my master commanded me 
 silence. He said, ' whoever understood the nature 
 of Yahoos^ might easily believe it possible for so 
 vile an animal to be capable of every action I had 
 named, if their strength and cunning equalled 
 their malice But when a creature pre- 
 tending to reason could be capable of such enor- 
 mities, he dreaded lest the corruption of that 
 faculty might be worse than brutality itself.' He 
 seemed, therefore, confident, that instead of 
 reason, we were only possessed of some quality 
 fitted to increase our natural vices, as the reflec- 
 tion from a troubled stream returns the image of 
 an ill-shapen body, not only larger, but more 
 distorted." 
 
 Ellesmere. This, too, is admirable. Here is 
 another writer who never leaves one in doubt as 
 to what he means.
 
 280 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Milverton. Now I am going to rejoice the 
 cockles of your heart, Ellesmere, and to give you 
 an opportunity of reading to the assembled com- 
 pany the fable which you have imparted to me. 
 I return to my Guicciardini. You may observe 
 that I am not quoting from that ponderous work, 
 but from a little book written by a lady, Emma 
 Martin, who has given a translation of his maxims. 
 I have not had time to verify the translation. 
 
 " I commend him who stands Neutral in the 
 Wars of his Neighbours, if he be so powerful, or 
 hath his Dominions of such Condition, as that he 
 hath nothing to fear from the Conqueror ; because 
 he doth thus avoid Peril, Expenses, and Exhaus- 
 tion, and the Disorders of the others may afford 
 him some profitable Opportunity. Except it be 
 with these conditions, Neutrality is foolishness, 
 because, binding thyself to one of the parties, thou 
 dost run no danger but the Victory of the other, 
 but standing between, thou art always bruised, 
 conquer who will." 
 
 Cranmer. I should like to hear your fable now, 
 Sir John. 
 
 Ellesmere. Oh, it's a poor foolish little thing. 
 
 Milverton. Pray don't be modest, Ellesmere, 
 but give it them at once. I tell you candidly that
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 281 
 
 I mean, if I can, to compose a fable on the other 
 side of the question, for some future occasion. 
 
 Ellesmere. It won't be as good as mine. 
 
 Milverton. Now Ellesmere is speaking in his 
 natural tone, which becomes him much better than 
 when he is superfluously modest. 
 
 Ellesmere. Well, here is the fable, since you 
 will have it : 
 
 A spectacle very attractive to all boys, and 
 indeed to most grown-up people, is occasionally to 
 be seen in our streets. 
 
 It consists of a perambulating cage, containing 
 birds and animals of various kinds, all living 
 together in complete harmony, and enticingly 
 labelled " The happy family." 
 
 A monkey is seated on a cat's back, to the 
 complete satisfaction, apparently, of both parties ; 
 a mouse nestles to an owl ; a hawk fondles a 
 sparrow ; a raven's only thought appears to be, 
 that each of its friends and fellow-prisoners should 
 enjoy its own property. 
 
 Altogether " the happy family " forms a most 
 instructive sight to the human beings who crowd 
 round it a slightly reproachful, but still a most 
 engaging object for contemplation. 
 
 This " happy family," when at home, and oft
 
 282 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 duty, no longer being obliged to perform a most 
 unwilling friendship, sometimes indulges in its 
 natural propensity for internecine warfare. 
 
 The weather was cold ; and there was a good 
 fire in the showman's garret, for monkeys (expen- 
 sive creatures to buy, and not easily tamed) are 
 very chilly, and require warmth and care, lest, like 
 their human prototypes (as they call us), they 
 should languish away in consumption. 
 
 The genial heat provoked the combative ten- 
 dencies of some of the members of " the happy 
 family." The hawk and the raven commenced 
 a .fierce attack with beak and claw upon each 
 other. The dog, a mastiff, the only really tamed 
 and good-natured creature in the miniature mena- 
 gerie, summoned with loud barking his master, 
 who happened to be absent, then growled his dis- 
 pleasure at this outbreak, and finally lay down 
 upon the hearth-rug, blinking and winking as is 
 the wont of dogs while basking in the light of 
 the fire. 
 
 The contest ended with many screams of rage 
 and much flying about of fluff and feather. But 
 peace was not in their minds. Both combatants, 
 after a moment's pause, made a common onslaught 
 upon the unhappy dog, for each maintained that
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 283 
 
 he had winked encouragement and approbation to 
 the other side. The pecks and clawings of furious 
 hawks and ravens are not pleasant things to 
 encounter, and may, at first, appal even the most 
 stout-hearted of dogs. And, at last, when victory 
 did incline to his side, he was somewhat of a 
 piteous spectacle. But wisdom is seldom gained 
 without suffering. And surely it was a wise 
 saying which the dog then uttered, "If they 
 quarrel again, I will take a side early in the fray, 
 and not have to endure, at the same time, the 
 claw of the hawk and the beak of the raven. 
 These creatures are not tame enough, or wise 
 enough, to understand the merits of a consistent 
 neutrality." 
 
 Cranmer. The fable is a very droll one, but 
 you really don't mean, Ellesmere, that we should 
 take a part in this war ? 
 
 Ellesmere. I don't know that I mean anything. 
 I won't be cross-questioned in this way. Great 
 imaginative writers are not bound to accommo- 
 date themselves to the peculiar circumstances of 
 the present moment. I give you something which 
 has a certain appropriateness in it for all times. 
 The poor dog's honest nature and unintentional 
 winking, are always misunderstood. You can't
 
 284 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 take Faust home, can you, and apply it as a 
 family book ? It does not pretend to be an equi- 
 valent for Buchan's Domestic Medicine. 
 
 Sir Arthur. I wish that Ellesmere were one 
 of us authors. How he would defend us and his 
 Opera Omnia at the same time ! 
 
 Ellesmere. Here is a streak of sunshine ! Do 
 you see ? For goodness' sake, don't let us waste 
 our time in this dull study in talking about authors 
 and their works, when there is a chance of our 
 getting a walk before dinner, after all this rain. 
 
 \_Exeunt omnes.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 285 
 
 CHAPTER X. 
 
 [THE visit of our friends was nearly concluded ; 
 and they were to return to London in a day or 
 two. Mr. Milverton and I were in the study 
 expecting them to join us, in order to have a 
 final discussion upon some of the many points 
 which had been raised in the course of these con- 
 versations. I was deploring to him how little we 
 had done of all that we intended to do, and was 
 reminding him, for instance, of the careful pre- 
 paration I had made, under his direction, of the 
 various books which he thought should be read 
 by any man who was to be considered to be a 
 cultivated man in English literature. " Never 
 mind, Alick," he said. " Culture must, for the 
 present, take care of itself. What little we have 
 managed to say about war, will be talked of by 
 Ellesmere and Sir Arthur at London dinner- 
 tables, and will not be altogether lost. I mean,
 
 286 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 moreover, if we can get an opportunity to-day, to 
 sum up, as shortly as may be, a few of the con- 
 clusions I have come to about war." 
 
 At this moment, Sir John Ellesmere and Sir 
 Arthur entered the room.] 
 
 Ellesmere. Sir Arthur and I, Milverton, have 
 been having a dispute, which has almost degene- 
 rated into a quarrel, about the nature of Love. 
 I believe that I have invented an aphorism about 
 Love, which closely borders upon perfection. 
 But Sir Arthur persists in not seeing the merit 
 of it. 
 
 I say, that the person you love most, is the 
 person with whom you can stay longest without 
 being bored. Of course, I know that there are 
 different kinds of love ; but this one great maxim 
 will apply to all. Sir Arthur talks of " unity of 
 soul," and " community of sentiment," and all the 
 fine things that Sir Arthur naturally would talk 
 of; but, to use an emphatic expression, they are 
 mostly " bosh." Don't accuse me of being rude 
 to Sir Arthur : he has been very rude to me, and 
 has told me I know nothing about the subject I 
 pretend to understand. 
 
 Unity of soul ! I have a very high opinion of 
 Sir John Ellesmere as a companion, but I don't
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 287 
 
 want another of the sort to live with me. He 
 would bore me terribly. Then, as to " community 
 of sentiment," I commune in sentiment very 
 much with Clarkson, Wilberforce, and Co., about 
 slavery and the slave-trade. I should not, how- 
 ever, have wished to have lived much with them. 
 They would have bored me to extinction. 
 
 But listen. [Sir John, in his careless way, had 
 left the study-door open, and we could hear what 
 Mrs. Milverton and Mr. Mauleverer were talking 
 about on the landing.] 
 
 Mauleverer. There should be a soup^on of 
 garlic in it. 
 
 Mrs. Milverton. But my husband does not 
 like garlic, Mr. Mauleverer. 
 
 Mauleverer. He must be made to like it. 
 Besides, he will know nothing whatever about it, 
 if you are discreet in its use. You women overdo 
 everything. It requires the delicacy of a man- 
 cook to apply telling flavours. 
 
 " Thin, but not too thin ; thick, but not too 
 thick," as Mr. Woodhouse says of his gruel, in 
 Miss Austin's Emma. If that wise old gentle- 
 man had given us his thoughts about pepper, and 
 garlic, and other condiments, there would have 
 been the same element of wisdom in 'them.
 
 288 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Mrs. Milverton. But we must go ; they will 
 be waiting for us in the study. 
 
 E lies-mere. Now, there is community of senti- 
 ment; but, after all, I do not think they would 
 have lived happily together. She would not have 
 been content to look up at our stout friend, with 
 the mute admiration with which she regards her 
 husband during his dullest discourse. But here 
 they come. 
 
 [Enter MRS MILVERTON and MAULEVERER. 
 
 We were talking, Mrs. Milverton, about love. 
 It is of no good recounting to you what I have 
 said, because it is a subject of which you know 
 but little ; but I will go on to say that I have a 
 scheme in my head for making every marriage a 
 perfectly happy one. I mean to be a supreme 
 benefactor to the human race. But you must not 
 put up a statue to me, for that form of gratitude is 
 one which I beg to decline. I do not wish to be 
 made ridiculous in future ages. No, no : only 
 a simple white slab, with these few words 
 upon it : 
 
 This was the man who prevented unhappy marriages. 
 
 Milverton. I suppose we must let Ellesmere 
 go on talking his nonsense until Cranmer and my 
 lady make their appearance.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 289 
 
 Ellesmere. Nonsense ! As if it were not a 
 far greater benefit for the human race to set up 
 marriage than to put down war, which latter trans- 
 action, with all his endeavours, Milverton will find 
 somewhat difficult. 
 
 It is a very slight change which I shall 
 propose. It will merely be, making the honey- 
 moon, or something like the honeymoon, precede 
 the marriage. Then they will find out whether they 
 bore one another much, and whether they really 
 can live happily together for an indefinite time. 
 
 Sir Arthur. Let us hear the details of the 
 scheme. 
 
 Ellesmere. I hate details. They are the 
 ruin of great thoughts, which otherwise would be 
 carried into action. But I am ready with my 
 details on this occasion. No marriage should 
 take place without a certificate from some respon- 
 sible householder (I should prefer its being one 
 from the prospective mother-in-law of the pro- 
 spective bride), stating that the high contracting 
 parties have lived in the same house together, en 
 famille, for one month. 
 
 There are several minor details. A young 
 man must not say to a young woman, " Will you 
 marry me ? " But, " Will you take a moon with 
 
 19
 
 290 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 me ? " It is not to be called a honeymoon, or a 
 verjuicemoon, but simply a " moon." 
 
 Then there must be a short Act of Parliament, 
 or Order in Council. I have already drawn it up 
 in my mind. It is to run thus : 
 
 " Whereas, by reason of the naughtiness of 
 men and the tiresomeness of women, many 
 marriages are not found to be so happy as they 
 ought to be ; and whereas it is presumed that 
 this misfortune arises from the fact that the 
 persons contracting to marry have no sufficient 
 knowledge of each other, and do not know 
 whether they will bore each other very much or 
 not ; it is expedient to order (I think it should be 
 an Order in Council), and it is hereby ordered ; 
 that all persons being about to marry, should, 
 previously to the marriage being solemnized, 
 produce a certificate, certifying that they have 
 lived in the same house together, as members of 
 the same family, for the time of one lunar month. 
 
 " Let this Order be communicated to the 
 Secretary of State for the Home Department, 
 and let all persons herewith concerned govern 
 themselves accordingly." 
 
 Milverton. When will any one put a stop to 
 Ellesmere's nonsense ?
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 291 
 
 Sir Arthur. There is somebody coming who, 
 I think, will do so. I hear the rustle of feminine 
 garments. 
 
 [Enter LADY ELLESMERE and CRANMER. 
 
 Ellesmere. No wonder that women are so 
 much less shy than men ; because they are so 
 conscious that they make a sensation wherever 
 they come, with their superfluities of adornment. 
 Whereas, look at Cranmer, how he sneaks into 
 the room behind my lady, being conscious of 
 what a poor appearance he makes in that tweed 
 suit of his, when compared with her flowing magni- 
 ficence of attire. 
 
 Sir Arthur. You have lost a great deal, 
 Lady Ellesmere, in not hearing what your 
 husband has just been saying about love and 
 marriage. 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. Marriage he may know 
 something about ; but of love very little, if 
 anything. 
 
 Milverton. When shall we come to business ? 
 
 Ellesmere. It is all Sandy's fault that Mil- 
 verton is so strict with us these times. Sandy is 
 an enemy to all fun : will never laugh himself ; 
 and, if he had a family, would never permit any of 
 his family to laugh.
 
 292 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 Milverton. You are all going away, and 
 somehow or other, I have been prevented from 
 consulting you, as I meant to do, about the 
 general subject of culture. 
 
 Ellesmere. Let us take it all for granted. I 
 cannot say that the subject has altogether been 
 omitted. You have dwelt upon the advantages of 
 scientific education ; and you have made me com- 
 mence my education in that respect. 
 
 Milverton. Well, now, I want to make a 
 finale, or rather a summary, of what I have said, 
 or have had to say, upon the subject of war, 
 which subject has been the one that has insisted 
 upon being chiefly discussed by us, during our brief 
 holiday. 
 
 I have endeavoured to show you that the 
 agglomeration of small States may not be a 
 serviceable thing for the world. I will begin by 
 dwelling a little upon that point; and I am now 
 going to say something which I do not think has 
 been taken into consideration by any of you. 
 This agglomeration of States will eventually lead 
 to the formation of some great metropolis. I 
 hold that a great metropolis, from its unwieldy 
 nature, is an evil of the first magnitude. 
 
 All the difficulties, with regard to sanitary
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 293 
 
 regulations, are increased, in almost geometrical 
 progression, according as the town begins to rise 
 in population, say from two hundred thousand to 
 a million of inhabitants. I am not going to enter 
 into details. I merely throw this thought before 
 you, as one which, perhaps, is worthy of your 
 consideration. 
 
 Again, I have dwelt upon a fact, for such it 
 appears to me to be ; namely, that the larger the 
 nation, the less likely it is for the governing body 
 to be well chosen. 
 
 I have pointed out, or ought to have pointed 
 out, what great things have been done in Science, 
 Literature, and Art, by Principalities or Republics 
 of exceeding smallness as regards population. 
 
 I have told you, until you are weary of hearing 
 me, that the evils of war outweigh all other evils 
 of the world; moreover, that war is a most re- 
 productive calamity. Other calamities often have 
 a speedy end. The potato plant or the rice plant 
 fails. There is a famine in the land. It is a 
 terrible scourge, but it has not a tendency to 
 produce anything like itself. On the contrary, it 
 generally leads to a better husbandry and to a 
 better management of material resources. The 
 same thing may be said of pestilence. It nearly
 
 294 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 always leads to an improvement in sanitary 
 arrangements. But war, unless the issues of it 
 are most skilfully managed, only leads to an 
 armed peace, which your friends, Cranmer, the 
 political economists, think to be almost more 
 mischievous than war itself. 
 
 Ellesmere. Is he going on for ever, this man ? 
 
 Milverton. He means to go on for some 
 time longer. 
 
 He now insists upon the want of generosity in 
 this world, and the utter want of Christianity. 
 There has not been any quarrel in our times 
 amongst nations, that is not liable to the censure 
 conveyed in the preceding words. It seems as 
 if people had lost the idea, which even preceded 
 Christianity, and which finds its best expression 
 in one of ^E sop's fables ; namely, that the genial 
 sun is a more powerful agent than the bitter and 
 boisterous wind, at any rate, in uncloaking your 
 adversary. 
 
 Now, with regard to quite another point. 
 Ellesmere has given us an ingenious fable, 
 meant to imply that neutrality is a bad thing. 
 Fables are like proverbs, and can be twisted and 
 turned in any way. I have not had time to 
 evolve a fable in opposition to his. But there is
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 295 
 
 no need of fables. When he was urged upon the 
 point, he would not say that his fable had any 
 immediate application to the present state of 
 things. I admit that the questions which have 
 been raised, concerning the duties of neutrals, 
 and the policy of non-intervention, require to be 
 maturely considered. But, at the same time, I 
 maintain that our " attitude," to use the common 
 phrase, on this present occasion, has been, in almost 
 all respects, thoroughly justifiable. If no nation 
 is to show a great unwillingness to enter into war, 
 how is war ever to be discontinued ? And, surely, 
 you, even those among you who are not Utopians, 
 do look forward to some period, however distant, 
 when the quarrels of nations will be settled with- 
 out the arbitrament of war. 
 
 Then there is the cattle plague. You may 
 depend upon it, this is not one of the least scourges 
 that belong to a state of war. I wish people 
 would really consider how all these millions of 
 human beings who inhabit Europe, are to be fed, 
 if we allow a state of warfare, or of large prepara- 
 tion for warfare, to be nearly permanent amongst 
 us. I have no doubt, whatever, that the great 
 outbreak of the cattle plague in Europe, during 
 the last century, was occasioned by war, and that
 
 296 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 the loss of many a battle is to be attributed to the 
 loss of provisions caused by this plague. Yet, 
 how rarely is any mention made of the plague by 
 historians ! This is a wonderful instance of the 
 way in which even observant persons fail to 
 recognize the importance of the most important 
 things that are happening before their own eyes. 
 I referred to Smollett's History of England for 
 the year in which the cattle plague broke out 
 during the last century in our own country, and 
 I found that the memorable domestic event of 
 that year was a remarkable murder of a man and 
 his wife, which occurred in or near London. In 
 the recent outbreak of this plague, we lost cattle, 
 the value of which was estimated at five millions 
 of money. We are now well prepared to meet, 
 and I hope, to conquer, any outbreak of this 
 disease that may occur here. But we may be 
 baffled ; and at any rate the restrictions upon 
 trade which are needful in order to keep out the 
 plague, or to have at hand the readiest means of 
 suppressing it, are very hurtful to trade. Our 
 danger at the present moment has been entirely 
 produced by this war ; and I am sure I am not 
 wrong in enumerating the cattle plague as one of 
 the evils consequent upon war.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 297 
 
 I now turn to another branch of the subject. 
 I cannot help blaming (I hope my blame is not 
 unjust) diplomacy for not having done more to 
 prevent this war. It seems clear to me, that 
 if Louis Napoleon's ambassadors had known 
 more of the state of public feeling in the respec- 
 tive countries to which they were accredited, this 
 war would never have taken place. It is evident 
 that the Emperor was perfectly in error when he 
 supposed that the States of Southern Germany 
 would not unite with the Prussians in a war 
 against France. The error of diplomatists, is, that 
 they are apt to content themselves with learning 
 what are the views and wishes of the upper ten 
 thousand ; but do not observe or appreciate the 
 current of popular opinion, which, in our times, 
 must largely affect the decisions of every Govern- 
 ment. 
 
 There is one general remark which I must 
 make; and it is this, that we must be very 
 careful, in commenting upon this war, or upon 
 any other great event in which nations are con- 
 cerned, not to attribute too much to what we affirm 
 to be national characteristics. I am not sure that 
 I am not to blame for having fallen into this 
 error, in the part which I have taken in these con-
 
 298 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 versations. The words of the preacher are surely 
 to the purpose, when he says that there is " neither 
 yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of 
 understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill, 
 but time and chance happeneth to them all." I 
 am, as you know, a great admirer of the Spanish 
 people, and the question has often been put to 
 me, How is it that these people, whom you admire 
 so much, have of late done so little in the world ? 
 It must be from some defect of national character. 
 But I do not believe that it is anything of the kind, 
 and am prepared to show that, since the days of 
 Charles the Fifth, the Spaniards have been a 
 singularly unfortunate people especially unfor- 
 tunate in their sovereigns. Again, I say it does not 
 become us, who have been remarkably fortunate in 
 our geographical position, and in the circumstances 
 of our history, to attribute too much of our national 
 success to our national character. And, reverting 
 to the subject which has mostly occupied our 
 thoughts of late, we must be slow to pronounce, 
 that the main events of this war have been deter- 
 mined by the national characteristics of either of 
 the contending nations. As regards the Germans, 
 we must recollect that the war has been principally 
 organized by a foreigner, and the diplomacy con-
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 299 
 
 ducted by a man of foreign extraction. As regards 
 the French, it must be observed, that no one of us, 
 though we all think we understand the French, 
 succeeded in anticipating the conduct that they 
 would pursue on their principal city being besieged. 
 Such facts as these should make us very careful 
 in drawing conclusions as to national character, and 
 as to the results to be expected from that character. 
 I have no doubt that, for many years to come, 
 historians, moralists, and philosophers will point 
 to this war, and assert many things, respecting the 
 national character of both nations concerned, which 
 will be disproved when either of these nations 
 comes again prominently before the world. 
 
 With regard to the Secret Treaties which had 
 been made without any cognizance on our part ; 
 I do not blame our diplomatists. In every trans- 
 action, an honest man, who has no indirect pur- 
 poses, is at great disadvantage when dealing with 
 others who are not so honest as he is, and have 
 purposes which they cannot openly avow. 
 
 Lastly, there is a great problem to be solved, 
 in the best way that it can be, by this country, 
 and which has to be especially considered by you 
 members of Parliament. The whole country 
 seems anxious to increase our means of offence
 
 300 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 and defence. I do not wonder at this. The few 
 pleasures that there are in this world are not con- 
 fined to eating and drinking, to dancing and singing, 
 or even to being well clothed and well housed ; 
 in short, to being made comfortable. It needs 
 no Akenside to tell us that " the pleasures of the 
 imagination " are very keen ; and, no doubt, it 
 is a great pleasure nay, more, it is a great 
 satisfaction, to feel that, as a nation, we are not 
 without considerable influence in the world's 
 affairs. Moreover, we have been accustomed to 
 enjoy this satisfaction, and we begin to miss it 
 now. I am not going to contend that we should 
 not desire to resume this satisfaction ; although, I 
 think, that probably we somewhat underrate the 
 influence which we have at present, notwithstand- 
 ing all our supposed infirmity of purpose and 
 action. 
 
 Ellesmere. I will give you a little assistance, 
 Milverton. Returning home late at night from 
 some tiresome debate, I have witnessed a quarrel 
 between some man and woman, probably husband 
 and wife : the woman has uttered all manner of 
 injurious taunts, and has not failed to call him a 
 coward ; but she knows all the time that the man 
 is no coward. I need say no more.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 301 
 
 Milverton. Thanks, Ellesmere, for your illus- 
 tration. I have said before, and I say again, that 
 a foreign nation cannot make a greater political 
 mistake, than when it supposes that England will 
 not fight. 
 
 I must, however, return to what I mean to 
 say to you parliamentary men. You have this 
 painful problem before you which I have just 
 stated, and which I will sum up in the following 
 words : You have to make this country reason- 
 ably satisfied that due preparation is made for 
 offence or defence, to provide against the contin- 
 gencies of war. But, at the same time, you will 
 have to take care that you do not make our 
 people a warlike people or, rather, a people 
 whose first thought is war, or preparation for war. 
 If you attain the latter object, you will break 
 down our greatness in other respects, and you 
 will go against the genius of the nation ; you will 
 prevent its reaping those advantages which its 
 geographical position ought to command. I for- 
 bear to speak of the injury to Science, Art, and 
 Literature, which would be occasioned if you enter, 
 without reservation, into a close competition with 
 other nations as regards warlike preparation, and 
 especially if you servilely adopt their peculiar
 
 302 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 methods of training, which may suit them very 
 well, but which, I believe, will not be found to 
 suit us at all. 
 
 I beg to remark, that I do not agree with 
 those people who suppose, that if a general 
 system of military education were adopted now, 
 in those countries which have it not, that system 
 would preclude the existence, or essentially 
 diminish the number of standing armies. If you 
 do not take great care, you will have both evils. 
 I think that history will support me in this. Take 
 the times of Louis XI. of France, and his father, 
 Charles VII. I believe that in those times almost 
 every man received some training as a soldier, 
 and yet these kings had standing armies. They 
 would be considered ludicrously small armies 
 now, but they were sufficient to ensure tyranny 
 then. If I recollect rightly, Philippe de Corn- 
 mines comments upon the mischief and the 
 burden that Louis XL's standing army was to 
 his subjects. However that may be, I feel 
 confident that, in the present day, those persons 
 will be very much deceived who think that, by 
 favouring and furthering a general military educa- 
 tion of the people, they will succeed in reducing 
 standing armies.
 
 AND GENERAL CULTURE. 303 
 
 Now I have something very important to add, 
 as affecting all that I have said in these conver- 
 sations, touching war.. It is this : that a great 
 part of what I have said does not apply with 
 especial force to our own people. We are not 
 desirous of acquiring territory : we are averse from 
 war, not so much from feeling as from principle. 
 But I have endeavoured to treat the subject 
 generally; and what I have said has been 
 directed, not so much against Anglican, as against 
 European opinion. You may say to me, "your 
 views will never reach the people whom you 
 would most wish to influence ! " I cannot help 
 that. A writer, or a talker, must take the chance 
 of his writing or his talking reaching the right 
 people ; and we should all have to adopt a 
 Carthusian silence if we resolved never to say 
 anything but that which is sure, at once, to meet 
 with a reception from those persons for whom the 
 saying is mainly intended. 
 
 Ellesmere. Well, we have listened to this 
 discourse very patiently; and, certainly, I have 
 very little to object to in it; unless, indeed, it 
 be, that Milverton is kind enough to place before 
 us members of Parliament a problem almost 
 impossible to solve.
 
 304 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR 
 
 One thing, however, I must take leave to say, 
 in reference to the general subject of war. You 
 don't mean to maintain, Milverton, that war is all 
 bad ? that nothing good comes out of it ? 
 
 Milverton. No ; I do not maintain that any- 
 thing which God permits is altogether bad. 
 
 Sir Arthur. And suffering is, perhaps, the 
 greatest and the best of instructors. The most 
 beautiful jewel, as I deem it to be, is said by 
 naturalists to be a produce of suffering the 
 pearl. 
 
 Ellesmere. That is one of Sir Arthur's pretty 
 sayings. I do not hold with it. 
 
 Milverton. I would rather have fewer pearls 
 and much less suffering, even for the oysters. 
 But, my dear Ellesmere, don't you think that 
 there is every prospect of enough being said and 
 done, in the course of the next generation, to 
 favour war or to excuse it ? Is it not well that 
 there should be some few people on the other 
 side ; and that there should, at any rate, be one 
 nation, which, while it is ready to perform its 
 national duties and to uphold the treaties it has 
 signed, should yet be a protesting nation, if the 
 only protesting nation, against the horrors, 
 miseries, and unreasonableness of those wars
 
 AXD GENERAL CULTURE. 305 
 
 which, as we have discovered with regard to 
 the other scourges of mankind, are, for the 
 most part, preventible ? 
 
 Lady Ellesmere. We women are entirely with 
 you, Leonard. 
 
 Ellesmere. Of course they are. To speak 
 somewhat commercially, if not coarsely, they 
 become a ' drug in the market ' after a great war. 
 I suppose this present war will kill six hundred 
 thousand men. The Gretchens and Annettes will 
 find a woeful scarcity of lovers. 
 
 Milverton. Don't joke about it, Ellesmere. 
 It is a perfectly hideous thing to think of the 
 private misery that will follow upon this whole- 
 sale destruction of human beings. If we lived 
 in Pagan times, I could imagine this vast cloud 
 of misery, as of some hateful incense, rising up to 
 appease the nostrils of offended gods ; but, with 
 our present belief in a God of mercy, what a rank 
 offence, in His eyes, our odious wars must be ! It 
 is now 1871 years since Our Saviour came into 
 this world. During that time there have been a 
 great many individual Christians, or, at any rate, 
 persons who believed that they conformed to the 
 dictates of their Great Master. But you will find 
 it hard to maintain that there has been one 
 
 20
 
 306 CONVERSATIONS ON WAR, ETC. 
 
 Christian nation, if we may judge of its claims to 
 Christianity by its conduct towards other nations. 
 
 [Here Mr. Milverton got up, and left the 
 room ; and the conversation afterwards was only 
 of a desultory character. This was the last sus- 
 tained conversation that we had before our party 
 broke up, and before the members of Parliament 
 who chiefly constituted it, went up to hear the 
 Queen's speech, and to commence the labours of 
 the session.] 
 
 THE END.
 
 LONDON : 
 
 PRINTKD BV SMITH, ELDER AND CO. 
 OLD BAILEY, B.C.
 
 MTCf
 
 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA LIBRARY 
 
 Los Angeles 
 This book is DUE on the last date stamped below. 
 
 RFCF M ' 
 
 JUL 29 1 
 
 A..'. 
 
 74 4-9 
 
 J65 B 
 
 f- 
 ,0 
 
 DISCHARGE-imfi 
 8 1978 
 
 JUN 4 1978 
 
 Form L9-32m-8,'57 ( C8680s4 ) 444
 
 3 1158 00299 6451 
 
 UC SOUTHERN REGIONAL LIBRARY FACILITY