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 Ex Libris 
 C. K. OGDEN 
 
 THE LIBRARY 
 
 OF 
 
 THE UNIVERSITY 
 
 OF CALIFORNIA 
 
 LOS ANGELES
 
 THE PARNELLITE SPLIT: 
 
 OR, 
 
 THE DISRUPTION OF THE IRISH 
 PARLIAMENTARY PARTY. 
 
 FROM 
 
 WITH AN INTRODUCTION. 
 
 LONDON : 
 GEORGE EDWARD WRIGHT, THE TIMES OFFICE, PRINTING-HOUSE-SQUARE ; 
 
 AND 
 
 GEORGE ROUTLEDGE AND SONS (LIMITED), BROADWAY, LONDON, EC, 
 AND GLASGOW, MANCHESTER, AND NEW YORK. 
 
 1891.
 
 3>A 
 
 INTRODUCTION. 
 
 On the 17th of November last, the jury in the divorce action of 
 " O'Shea v. O'Shea and Parnell " pronounced their verdict. They 
 found that the charges against the respondent and the co- 
 respondent had been proved, and that there had been no con- 
 nivance on the part of the petitioner. Ten months had elapsed 
 between the issue of the writ and the trial, and it is impossible 
 to suppose that during this long interval the effects of a decision 
 adverse to Mr. Parnell were not a subject of speculation to many 
 persons actively interested in public affairs. The decision itself 
 was very generally anticipated by those best qualified to judge, 
 and practical politicians of all parties must have foreseen that it 
 might seriously modify the complex relations then subsisting 
 between Mr. Parnell, the Irish Parliamentary party, and the 
 British Gladstonians. Yet it may be said that the political con- 
 sequences of the trial came as a surprise to even the most intel- 
 ligent observers of current events. No accurate forecast of those 
 consequences had been made, because the data for such a forecast 
 were, in fact, inadequate. The existence of the two forces which 
 have proved to be the determining factors in the situation 
 created by the verdict was indeed known, bat there were no 
 means of calculating the strength of the one, or the probable direc- 
 tion of the other. These forces were the disaffection of the Irish 
 Nationalists towards their leader, and that curious moral entit} r , 
 tl the Nonconformist conscience." Persons moderately ac- 
 quainted with Irish politics had long been aware that the 
 Nationalist ranks contained elements bitterly hostile to the 
 supremacy of Mr. Parnell. They knew that he had a band of 
 personal enemies within the Irish Parliamentary party. They 
 knew, too, that the Irish priesthood disliked the leadership of a 
 Protestant, and that prominent members of the old Land League 
 nourished fierce resentments against the chief of the; "constitu- 
 tional " party. But the force and volume of the disaffection 
 
 1—2 
 
 ifi^^Q/SO'
 
 iv. INTRODUCTION. 
 
 cherished by thoso several soctions of the Irish Nationalists 
 towards tho common leader of them all, vvero wholly unsuspected. 
 Thoy were concoalod by tho iron discipline of the Parliamentary 
 party, by tho professional timidity and reticence of the priests, 
 and by the sense of their own impotence entertained by tho dis- 
 comfited Land Loaguers so long as thoy remained without allies. 
 Tho power as well as the existence of " the Nonconformist 
 conscience " were well known, but its idiosyncracios are so in- 
 scrutable, its operations in the sphere of Irish politics have been 
 for many years so abnormal and so erratic, that any confident 
 prediction of its action under novel conditions was impossible. 
 On the one hand, it had always professed to base its political 
 judgments on a rigid and unfaltering obedience to tho precepts of 
 tho Decalogue. On the other, it had condoned the flagrant and sys- 
 tematic breach of many of those precepts by tho Irish Nationalists 
 for years. To foretell its view of Mr. Parnell's delinquencies 
 was a problom, as events proved, which "passed the wit of 
 man." 
 
 Little, however, as the political consequences of tho divorce 
 action had been foreseen, they constituted nothing less than a 
 political catastrophe. Nothing like it, either for the dramatic 
 interest of its development, or for tho effect it promisos to exercise 
 on the fortunes of political parties in the United Kingdom, has 
 occurred within tho memory of tho present generation. It is 
 believed, therefore, that a permanent record of these events will 
 be acceptable, not only to students of history and politics, but to 
 all who take an interest in public affairs, whether at home or abroad. 
 Accordingly, it has been determined to republish in tho present 
 volume the letters, manifestoes, and other documents issued by tho 
 several parties to the conflict, togethor with the reports of tho meet- 
 ings of the Irish Parliamentary party during the crisis. Some por- 
 tions of tho " Interview " with Mr. Davitt of November 2G, and also 
 one or two passages of the debates in No. 15 Committee Room, 
 have been omitted, as they appeared to be devoid of permanent 
 interest, and some trifling alterations of a verbal naturo have been 
 made in order to preserve the continuity of tho narrative. With 
 those exceptions tho whole of the present volume has been re- 
 printed from the reports which appoarod from day to day in tho 
 columns of The Times. All the documents quoted have been 
 reproduced at length.
 
 INTRODUCTION. v. 
 
 The book contains a minute account of the daily progress 
 of the crisis from November 18, the day following the verdict 
 in " O'Shea v. O'Shea and Parnell," down to Mr. ParnelPs 
 departure for Ireland on December 9. The first chapter 
 covers the period from the verdict in the divorce case down 
 to the unanimous re-election of Mr. Parnell as chairman of 
 the Irish Parliamentary party (November 18-25). It begins with 
 the report of the National League meeting in Dublin on 
 November 18, gives the opinions of Mr. William O'Brien and the 
 other delegates to America delivered the same day, and the 
 report of the very important meeting at the Leinster Hall, 
 Dublin, on November 20, and concludes with the unanimous 
 re-election of Mr. Parnell as chairman of the Irish Parlia- 
 mentary party on the first day of the Session, Tuesday, November 
 25. Throughout the whole of this p6riod' the members of that 
 party vied with each other in expressions of unalterable devotion 
 to their old leader. No voice was raised against him. All 
 agreed that the verdict in the divorce action in no wise affected 
 his public position. The American delegates announced that 
 they stood firmly by his leadership not only out of gratitude for 
 his unparalleled services in the past, but " in profound convic- 
 tion that Mr. Parnell's statesmanship and matchless qualities as 
 leader are essential to the safety of our cause." At the Leinster 
 Hall meeting Mr. Justin M'Carthy himself moved the first reso- 
 lution declaring " that in all political matters Mr. Parnell 
 possessed the confidence of the Irish nation," and that the 
 meeting " rejoiced at the determination of the Irish Parlia- 
 mentary party to stand by their leader." He said that they 
 were not going to change their leader " because of the cry raised 
 against him." He suggested that " chivalrous and generous 
 motives " might have led Mr. Parnell to refrain from defending 
 himself in the Divorce Court. He asked, Were they going to set 
 up " some wholly inferior man " in Mr. Parnell's place, because 
 certain Tory and Liberal Secessionist papers had attacked him ? 
 " No man of common sense," he urged, would dream of doing 
 so. Mr. M'Carthy did not fear the effect of the verdict on British 
 opinion. The Home Rulers, he contended, would not lose the sup- 
 port of any honest allies. Some people, it was true, might fall away 
 from them. He could only say, " Let them fall away. The 
 national cause would go on without them." Mr. M'Carthy's 
 
 Chap. I. 
 
 Nov.18-25.
 
 vi. INTRODUCTION. 
 
 motion was seconded by Mr. Healy, and Mr. Healy's loyalty to 
 
 XT ' ' Mr. Parnell outrivalled Mr. McCarthy's. To Irishmen he 
 Nov.l8-2o. J 
 
 declared, Mr. Parnell was " less a man than an institution." 
 They had been taxed with servility to Mr. Parnell. Mr. Healy 
 repudiated the charge. The Irish party, ho observed, without 
 their chief would bo "a very pretty party in the House of 
 Commons." It would include representatives of "the Socialists, 
 the land national izers, tho barristers, and, probably, the attorneys." 
 The choice of instruments they made to guide them to Home 
 Rule was " a matter for them and not for the English people," 
 and Mr. Healy roundly warned intermeddlers " not to speak to 
 the man at the wheel." Mr. Gladstone's late Attorney-General 
 for Ireland, Mr. Samuel Walker, Q.C., warmly supported the 
 views expressed by Mr. M'Carthy and Mr. Healy, while his 
 colleague in office, the late Gladstonian Solicitor-General, The 
 MacDermot, Q.C., seconded a further resolution. 
 
 The unanimity of the .Parliamentary party remained unbroken 
 five days later. Mr. Parnell's re-election as chairman was the 
 first business at their meeting. It was proposed by Mr. Sexton, 
 and "agreed to amid loud applause." Seceders from Mr. Par- 
 nell's faction have alleged that his re-election was a merely 
 formal honour, and that ho was not expected to accept the office 
 tenderod him. .No hint of such a fooling appears in tho report. 
 It is distinctly stated that Mr. Parnoll " promised that he 
 would continue to discharge tho duties of leader," in response to 
 " the unanimous desire " of tho party. Mr. Parnell plainly took 
 tho election seriously, and 'no dissent seems to have been ex- 
 pressed from his vicvy. 
 
 Tho second chapter contains a record of tho chief ovonts which 
 CiiAr. II. l 
 
 Nov 25-28 ha-ppenocl botwoon the adjournment of the meeting of the Irish 
 Parliamentary party on tho afternoon of November 25, and the issuo 
 of Mr. Parnell's Manifesto on Friday, November 28. The verdict 
 in the divorco case, it will bo remembered, was given on Monday, 
 November 17. Mr. Gladstone has stated, in a speech mado at 
 Retford on December 11, that he felt tho proceedings in that case 
 " would destroy entirely tho moral weight and tho moral force " 
 of Mr. Parnell. He did not at once communicate his opinion to 
 Mr. Parnell. Ho waited for a weok, and in tho samo speech he 
 explains tho reason of his inaction. " I determined," ho says, 
 " to watch tho state of feeling in this country, and 1 very soon
 
 INTRODUCTION. 
 
 VII. 
 
 found that the Liberal 'party in this country had made up its 
 mind to draw a broad distinction between the national cause of 
 Ireland and the person and tho personal office of Mr. ParneU." 
 Sir Charles Russell insists, with candour yet more damaging, on 
 the fact that considerations of political exjaediency alone, and 
 not of outraged moral it}', wrung from Mr. Gladstone his con- 
 demnation of Mr. Parnell. Speaking at Braintree on December 5, 
 he said that " it was not until Mr. Gladstone saw the rising, 
 overwhelming tide of public opinion that he felt bound, in the 
 interest of the party he led and of the cause he advocated, 
 to convey to the leader of the Irish people that his con- 
 tinued leadership must have a chilling effect upon the en- 
 thusiasm of many staunch friends." Mr. Gladstone's inves- 
 tigations into the state of feeling in the country were doubt- 
 less materially aided by the reports he received from the meeting of 
 the National Liberal Federation held at Sheffield on the Thursday 
 and Friday after the verdict, at a moment, as Mr. John Morley 
 told the delegates, when the country was (i peculiarly stirred by 
 anxious incidents and painful disclosures." On Sunday the 
 " Nonconformist conscience " spoke from a hundred chapels, 
 and on Monday Mr. Gladstone announced to Mr. Morley the 
 conclusion to which his studies of the " rising tide ' had 
 brought him. It was that Mr. Parnell's continuance " at 
 the present moment " in the leadership of the Irish party 
 would 'be disastrous to Ireland, while it would render his 
 own leadership " almost a nullity." The Irish members 
 learnt the contents of this document soon after they had unani- 
 mously and enthusiastically re-elected Mr. Parnell as their 
 chairman, and had received his pledge that he would continue to 
 discharge the duties of his office. They held a second meeting 
 the same evening, but, as Mr. Parnell had gone home, they 
 adjourned without coming to any decision. Mr. Parnell presided 
 over their deliberations next day (November 26). Mr. Barry 
 and Dr. Commins at once pressed him to resign. Mr. Justin 
 M'Carfchy quite forgot his objection to setting up " some wholly 
 inferior man," and seconded their exhortations. Mr. Sexton and 
 other members agreed with Mr. M'Carthy, while Colonel Nolan 
 and Mr. John O'Connor urged Mr. Parnell to stick to his post, 
 and " not to permit himself to be dictated to by Mr. Gladstone." 
 Mr. Parnell, " who throughout the proceedings had maintained 
 
 Chap. II. 
 
 Nov.25-28.
 
 Chap. II 
 Nov.25-23 
 
 CnAr.III 
 
 Nov. 28- 
 
 viii. INTRODUCTION. 
 
 tho attitude of a listener, closed tho procoodings by simply 
 loaving tho chair." 
 
 Tho mooting adjourned from Wednesday, November 20, to 
 Monday, Decombor 1. On tho Wednesday night Mr. Davitt 
 pronounced a sovere condemnation of his old confederate, 
 taxing him with trickery and falsohood, declaring that ho would 
 have nothing more to do with him, and suggesting that the leader- 
 ship should be put into commission. 
 
 Tho third chaptor contains tho Manifosto issued by Mr. Parnell 
 to "tho People of Ireland " on the night of Friday, November 28, tho 
 Dec 1 replies of Mr. Gladstone and Mr. Morley published on tho following 
 day, and the telegram and manifesto of five of the six American 
 delegatos, pronouncing Mr. Parnell's retention of the leadership 
 to bo impossible. In his Manifesto Mr. Parnell alleged that tho 
 integrity and independence of a section of his .party had boon 
 " sapped and destroyed by the wire-pullers of the English 
 Liberal Party" ; that Mr. Gladstone's letter claimed " a right of 
 veto " on the Irish party's choice of their own leader, and con- 
 tained a menace that resistance to this claim would involve an 
 indefinite postponement of Home Rulo. To enable tho Irish 
 people to measure tho loss wherewith they wore threatened unless 
 they threw him, their leader, " to tho English wolves," Mr. 
 Parnell purported to describe the kind of Home Rule Mr. Glad- 
 stone was ready to grant. Mr. Parnell declared that ho had 
 obtained his information from Mr. Gladstone himself, when on a 
 visit to Hawardon in November, 1889. He said that Mr. Glad- 
 stone told him that in his own opinion and in that of his col- 
 leagues, the Irish representation in the Imperial Parliament must 
 be reduced from 103 members to 32, that tho land question must 
 be reserved from tho control of the Irish Legislature, that the 
 Irish constabulary must remain under Imperial control for an 
 indefinite period, and that the appointment of "judges, resident 
 magistrates, &c," should bo. kopt in tho hands of the Imperial 
 authority for some ten or twelve years. Mr. Parnell next stated his 
 own views upon these alleged proposals of Mr. Gladstone's, and, 
 after mentioning certain negotiations ho had had with Mr. 
 Morley on questions of Parliamentary strategy, wont on to 
 assert that Mr. Morley had latoly asked him whether he would 
 bo willing to accept tho Chief Secretaryship for Iroland himself, 
 or would allow any othor mombor of his party to do so ; and that
 
 INTRODUCTION. ix. 
 
 Mr. Morley had also urged him to allow " a legal member of his 
 party " to become a law oflicor of the Crown. After a brief « '„„ 
 reference to the " Plan of Campaign " tenants, for whom Mr. Dec. 1. 
 Parnell stated Mr. Morley had informed him it would be impos- 
 sible for the Liberals to do anything " by direct action," Mr. 
 Parnell concluded his Manifesto by declaring his belief that 
 Home Rule could be obtained only by an Irish party which was 
 independent of any English party ; that Homo Rule would bo 
 neither ondangered nor postponed by any action of the Irish 
 people in supporting him ; and that even a postponement of 
 Home Rul-e would be preferable to a compromise of Ireland's 
 national rights, by the acceptance of a measure which would not 
 realize the aspirations of the Irish race. 
 
 The answers to this remarkable document do not call for any 
 special observation. Mr. Gladstone gave Mr. Parnell's statements 
 a general denial, and asserted that every suggestion made by him- 
 self was from written memoranda. He did not, however, dis- 
 close what in fact his suggestions to Mr. Parnell had been, or 
 quote from the memoranda to which he referred. 
 
 On the night of Saturday, November 29, the day of Mr. Glad- 
 stone's reply to Mr. Parnell's Manifesto, Mr. Parnell made 
 another curious and characteristic move, the details of which 
 were disclosed in the debate of the Irish party on Monday, 
 December 1. On Saturday a meeting of Irish members was 
 hastily convened. Mr. Parnell then requested Mr. M'Carthy 
 to see Mr. Gladstone, Sir William Harcourt, and Mr. Morley, 
 and to try to obtain from thorn letters declaring that on 
 their return to power they would propose a Home Rule Bill 
 vesting the control of the constabulary and the settlement 
 of the land question in an Irish Parliament, and that they 
 would treat these provisions as vital to the Bill. Mr. Parnell 
 assured Mr. M'Carthy that if these two concessions were made 
 he would retire " from public life." Mr. M'Carthy undertook the 
 commission with reluctance, and endeavoured to execute it 
 in the course of the following day. Mr. Gladstone, however, de- 
 clined to regard Mr. M'Carthy as representing, in any sense, the 
 Irish party, and stated that he could offer no suggestion, sign no 
 document, and give no message for him to convey to that party. 
 Mr. Gladstone further intimated that even were the proposed 
 arrangement otherwiso possible, ho could not feel certain that any
 
 x. INTRODUCTION. 
 
 CHAP III (mcumont ho might sign would not bo divulged. Sir William 
 
 Nov. 28- Harcourt gave a similar reply in curtor tonus. Ho said that 
 
 DEC. 1. after Mr. Parnell's Manifesto, ho would not give anybody any 
 
 assurance in writing or by word of mouth, that was to bo brought 
 
 in any way under the notice of Mr. Farnell. Mr. .M'Caitliy 
 
 failed to see Mr. Morley at all. Mr. Darnell's object in making 
 
 those proposals will appear later. They wore very dexterously 
 
 devised, and bocamo the pivot of the adroit and unscrupulous 
 
 strategy ho now proceeded to display. 
 
 _, ,_ The fourth chapter contains the reports of the meetings and 
 
 Chap. IV. c ta 
 
 Dec 1-5 proceedings of the Irish Parliamentary party from Monday, 
 
 December 1, down to the abortive closo of the attempted negotia- 
 tions with Mr. Gladstono on Friday, December 5. Throughout 
 the course of these proceedings Mr. Parnell's policy was simple 
 and consistent. He strove to gain time. His followers engaged 
 in systematic obstruction, and Mr. Darnell shamefully abused 
 his position as chairman to abet them. Tho first two 
 days, Monday, December 1, and Tuesday, December 2, wero 
 occupied in debating a dilatory proposal of Mr. Parnell's 
 supporter, Colonel JNolan, to the effect that tho question of 
 the chairmanship should be postponed until members had had 
 an opportunity of consulting thoir constituents, and until 
 the party could meet in Dublin. Mr. Sexton opposed the motion, 
 on tho ground that delay would break up the alliance between 
 the people of Ireland and '* tho only friends from whom they 
 had any reasonable horje— ho meant the Liberal democracy of 
 Great Britain." His judgment, ho declared, was clear, and not 
 oven his constituents could alter it. No power on earth could 
 alter it, " for it was tho fiat of his conscience," and " he claimed 
 to act on his conscience." Mr. J. Redmond, on tho othor 
 hand, supported Colonel Nolan. Mr. Parnell's offer to resign 
 upon the conditions laid down on Saturday proved, Mr. 
 Redmond urgod, tho sincerity of his patriotism. He con- 
 tended that, although the English alliance was important, 
 " they wore asked to soil their loader " to preserve it, and that 
 they were bound to see what they were getting as his price. Mr. 
 Parnell promptly took up his spokesman's words. " Don't 
 sell me for nothing," ho exclaimed dramatically. " If you get 
 my value, you may change me to-morrow." Mr. Red- 
 mond went on to argue that, in selling their leader,
 
 INTRODUCTION. xi. 
 
 "they were selling absolutely and irrevocably the inde- 
 pendence of the Irish party." Ho pointed out that while 
 Mr. Gladstone had denied Mr. Parnell's statements, " ho ab- 
 stained absolutely from -giving to the public or to the Irish 
 nation anything in the shape of a definite or clear statoment as 
 to what ho proposed." Mr. Redmond, for his part, unhesitatingly 
 preferred Mr. Parnell's word to Mr. Gladstone's. He twitted the 
 majority with having changed their attitude only " when Mr. 
 Gladstone issued his ukase that Mr. Parnell should be trampled 
 under foot," and he warned the champions of tho tenants on the 
 "Campaign " estates, that " Mr. Parnell's dethronement would 
 rend the Irish people in America in twain," and so stop "the 
 source of the supply on which these tenants had been depending 
 for so long." Mr. Healy, like Mr. Sexton, based his opposition 
 to the motion on grounds of pure political expediency. He 
 boasted that ho "went to the Leinster Hall meeting and pro- 
 nounced for Mr. Parnell in the face of English clamour." "Aye," 
 he continued, " we stood up for Mr. Parnell against the Bulls of 
 the Pope of Rome. It was not likely we would allow ourselves 
 to be influenced by the declarations of a single Wesleyan pulpit." 
 It was only when Mr. Healy perceived that Mr. Parnell had 
 alienated that body of opinion " which they were bound in this 
 matter to defer to, " that Mr. Healy did, in fact, defer to it. 
 " Having neither armies nor fleets," observed this earnest 
 advocate of the " union of hearts," " we are bound to 
 rely upon constitutional and Parliamentary methods." The 
 Home Rule, however, at which Mr. Healy aims, is essen- 
 tially the same as the Home Rule demanded by Mr. Parnell. 
 " We believe," he said, " that the Home Rule Bill outlined- in 
 Mr. Parnell's Manifesto is not one the Irish people could accept. 
 I cordially join in that sentiment. (Loud cheers.) I pledge my- 
 self to accept no such measure." Mr. Parnell himself followed 
 Mr. Healy. After bitterly reproaching his former secretary with 
 ingratitude, and exclaiming " That Mr. Healy should be here 
 to-day to destroy me, is due to myself," he went on to inquire 
 who had asked Mr. Healy to second the resolution at the 
 Leinster Hall meeting, calling upon him not to retire, and who 
 had asked Mr. Justin M'Carthy " to travel to Dublin, and to say 
 that he could give secret information to throw a different com- 
 plexion on hidden events]" "I did not give Mr. Justin 
 
 Chap. IV. 
 Dec, 1-5.
 
 ClIAP.IV. 
 
 Deo. 1-5. 
 
 xii. INTRODUCTION. 
 
 M'Carthy any information," added Mr. Parnell. " Where was 
 Mr. Sexton ?" he went on, " at this meeting ?" " Where were you 
 all ? Why did you encourage me to come forward and maintain 
 my leadership in tho face of the world, if you wore not going to 
 stand by me ?" Mr. Parnell then revertod to and amplified tho 
 argument already used by Mr. Redmond. Ho was ready to be 
 deposed, provided they got value for his deposition, and as 
 a proof that they would not got adequate value, ho told the 
 story of the negotiations conducted on Saturday and Sunday by 
 Mr. M'Carthy. " Wo are all agreed," he said, " that you will 
 not have this Bill," and tho remark was greeted with loud cheers. 
 " There has not boon a man to say a word in favour of this Bill. 
 But are you suro that you will be able to get anything better ? " 
 Mr. Parnell assured them they would not. He said he knew 
 what Mr. Gladstone, Sir William Harcourt, and Mr. Morloy 
 would do for them. " I know that thero is not a single one of the 
 lot to be trusted," he added, " unless you trust yourselves." 
 Therefore tho author of the Manifesto adjured the party ho had 
 trained so well, to be true to their own selves, and it would 
 follow, as the night the day, they could not be false to any man. 
 On Tuesday, several hours were wasted in reading telegrams and 
 discussing tho communications sent to the dolegates in America. 
 The debate was not so interesting as on the previous day, but 
 some lively episodes occurred, and some valuable statements were 
 made. Mr. Barry, a determined anti-Parnellite, " respectfully sub- 
 mitted " that itwas not in order for Mr. Parnell's private secretary, 
 Mr. Campbell, to speak of him and his friends as " the infamous 
 caucus in tho corner," whereupon the chairman characteristically 
 declared that " ho would confirm Mr. Campbell's word, if neces- 
 sary." Mr. Healy was rebuked for his "most insolent and im- 
 pertinent " conduct, as he had been compelled to withdraw an 
 imputation of falsehood made against Mx. Parnell tho day before. 
 Ho took his correction vory kindly, and presently expressed 
 his sense of tho dignity of tho chairman's action. A groat point 
 was mado by some of Mr. Parnell's supporters of the alleged fact 
 that a telegram from tho American delegates, hostile to their 
 chief, had been greeted with cheers by some anti-Parncllito mem- 
 bers of tho party in the National Liberal Club — " in an English 
 Club," as it was bitterly described. Mr. O'Kolly again uskod 
 whether any man, knowing Mr. Gladstone's " intellectual
 
 Chap. IV. 
 
 INTRODUCTION. xiii. 
 
 subtlety," would'assert that there was "anything like real or 
 valuable contradiction " of anything that Mr. Parnell had said, in _ ., _ 
 Mr. Gladstone's letter, and he announced that he had received a 
 telegram from " their old friend, Devoy." Mr. Arthur O'Connor, 
 like Mr. Sexton, thought it necessary to inform the meeting that 
 in repudiating Mr. Parnell, he looked to the approbation of his 
 conscience. He was a party, it is true, to the resolution moved by 
 Mr. Sexton, which proposodMr. Parnell's re-election to the chair. 
 But he explained his attitude. Like Dr. Tanner and Mr. J. F. X. 
 O'Brien, Mr. Arthur O'Connor " considered himself then in the 
 position of one of the Old Guard of Napoleon "giving a parting 
 salute." Mr. W. A. Macdonald reminded the meeting that when 
 Mr. Sexton came down to the House on the first day of the 
 Session, " he told the members of the party that Mr. Parnell's 
 leadership ought to be continued." At length a division was 
 taken, when the Noes were 44 and the Ayes were 29, showing a 
 majority of 15 against Mr. Parnell. Twelve members of the 
 party, including the six American delegates, were absent, and 
 one seat, that for North Kilkenny, was vacant. 
 
 A letter from Sir William Harcourt and a joint letter from Mr. 
 Labouchere and Professor Stuart, both of which denied certain 
 statements made by Mr. Parnell in the course of Monday's debate, 
 were issued on Tuesday. The same evening a meeting of the 
 Central Branch of the Irish National League sent a telegram to 
 Mr. Parnell expressing its " undivided allegiance " to him and 
 the Irish cause. On the following day — sixteen days after the 
 verdict in the divorce action — the " Standing Committee of the 
 Archbishops and Bishops of Ireland" issued an address declar- 
 ing that "they could no longer keep silent." " As pastors," 
 the prelates announced, they did not base " their judgment 
 and solemn declaration on political grounds, but simply 
 and solely on the facts and circumstances revealed " — more 
 than a fortnight before— " in the London Divorce Court." They 
 repudiated Mr. Parnell's leadership, and pronounced him to be 
 "wholly unworthy of Christian confidence." But the Irish Bishops 
 are rarely content in these days to speak "as pastors " only. 
 Political motives, they did acknowledge, stimulated their zeal. " As 
 Irishmen," they confessed, " devoted to their country . . . 
 and earnestly intent on securing for it the benefits of domestic 
 legislation, they could not but be influenced by the conviction
 
 Chap.IV. 
 
 Dec. 1-5. 
 
 xiv. INTRODUCTION. 
 
 that the continuance of Mr. Farnell as leader . . . must 
 havo tho effect of disorganizing their ranks," and even of causing 
 " inevitable defeat at tho approaching general election." With 
 so dangerous a sinner their lordships could no longer prudently 
 co-operate. Accordingly they exhorted the faithful to throw him 
 over. 
 
 On Wednesday, December 3, Mr. Parnell fell back upon the 
 ground ho had taken up on tho previous Saturday. Mr. Clancy, 
 one of his supporters, proposed that the Whips of the party 
 should bo instructed to obtain from tho Liberal leaders a state- 
 ment of their views on the control of the constabulary and the 
 settlement of the land question, before any further consideration 
 of the subject under debate. Mr. Clancy argued that there 
 was no reason why, if Mr. Gladstone were prepared to give tho 
 assurances desired by Mr. Parnell, the fact should not be mado 
 public. The control of the constabulary, he said, was a ques- 
 tion "at the very bottom of their demands," and they also 
 wanted the settlement of the land question in their hands. It 
 was further stated that if the Liberal leaders gave assurances of 
 a satisfactory nature upon these points, Mr. Parnell would retire. 
 Tho meeting was adjourned at Mr. Parnell 's request, to afford him 
 an opportunity to determine whether he should reserve to himself 
 the right of accepting or rejecting tho assurances to be obtained 
 from the Liberal leaders, or concede it to the majority of tho 
 Irish party. 
 
 On tho Thursday Mr. Parnell announced his decision. Ho 
 was prepared to let the party be the judge of tho sufficiency or 
 insufficiency of the assurances, upon condition that the party 
 took the responsibility off his shoulders on to their own. That 
 responsibility, Mr. Parnoll said, depended not merely on his posi- 
 tion as chairman of the Parliamentary party, but upon his posi- 
 tion as " loader of tho Irish nation." If, therefore, he transferred 
 it to the majority of the party, as ho professed to be ready to do, 
 he claimed that they should "by solemn resolution" record their 
 judgment in the face of their constituencies. He insisted on tho 
 need of caution in dealing with Mr. Gladstone His own word, 
 he said, had boon "grievously challenged " about tho Hawarden 
 communications, " but no attempt had been made to contradict 
 him, no attorn pt had been made to say in what single respect 
 inaccuracy existed, no attempt had been made to show, if there
 
 CnAr.IV. 
 
 INTRODUCTION. xv. 
 
 was inaccuracy, what the correction for the inaccuracy ought 
 to be." "In other words," he proceeded, "although I j-. ', -" 
 have been contradicted by a wholesale system of slander, 
 we have not been informed, we have not been told that 
 the constabulary will be given." "You are dealing," Mr. 
 Parnell warned his hearers, " with an unrivalled sophist." 
 " \ou are dealing," he repeated, " with a man with whom, 
 and to whom it is as impossible to give a direct answer to 
 a plain and simple question, as it is for me impossible to 
 give an indirect answer to a plain and simple question." 
 " I know this old gentleman well," he added. " I do say this, 
 having been in communication with him since 1882, upon many 
 important subjects and topics connected with Ireland — I 
 can tell you, gentlemen, I have never yet succeeded in 
 getting a straight answer to a single straight question 
 from him, and they have , been many and numerous that had 
 to be laid before him." In his desire to bring home to the 
 meeting the perils they might have to face in treating with this 
 " unrivalled sophist," Mr. Parnell reminded them of an impor- 
 tant bit of secret history relating to the Home Rule Bill of 1886 — 
 that project which has been invariably represented to the out- 
 side public as the happy offspring of the " union of hearts," 
 and as being freely accepted by the Irish party in complete 
 and final satisfaction of all Irish demands. The Home Rule 
 Bill, said Mr. Parnell, was forced upon himself and upon his 
 colleagues, and it was accepted by them pro tanto only. Just 
 before it was introduced, Mr. Parnell received a message that if 
 the Irish party " did not accept that Bill as it stood, the Cabinet 
 would resign in a body." Thereupon Mr. Parnell called together 
 Mr. Dillon, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Healy, Mr. Sexton, Mr. M'Carthy, 
 Mr. O'Kelly, the late Mr. Dwyer Gray, and Mr. Davitt. He said, 
 "Here is the Bill. It is a Parliamentary hit. It is nothing more. T 
 have been told to-day by Mr. Gladstone that it is for us to take or 
 reject that Bill, and if we undertake the responsibility of leaving-it, 
 he will make a statement in the House of Commons to-night declar- 
 ing that he can do no more, and' that the responsibility and the 
 want of solution for the Irish Question must rest upon us." 
 Mr. Parnell then placed the situation before his friends. " Here 
 is the Bill," he said, " with all its defects, absence of sufficient 
 control of the police; will you take it or will you leave it?"
 
 Cuai>.IV. 
 Dec. 1-5. 
 
 xvi. INTRODUCTION. 
 
 His colloagues, ho informed tho meeting in No. 15 Committoe 
 Room, said to him " that they would accept it pro tanto, 
 reserving for Committeo the right of enforcing and, if necessary, 
 reconsidering their position with regard to thoso important ques- 
 tions." Mr. Healy, who replied to Mr. Parnoll, supplemented his 
 account: of this remarkable transaction. He said that Mr. Parnell 
 displayod true statesmanship in his conduct of this secret con- 
 ference in 1886. The members present were cavilling over the de- 
 tails, or, rather, over the absence of certain provisions in the 
 Government Bill. " Mi. Farnell," continued Mr. Hoaly," rose 
 from tho table and said— and it clenched and ended the discussion 
 — ' Gentlemen, two great statesmen have left the Cabinet. You 
 have now an opportunity of wrecking another Cabinet,' whoreupon 
 they all said, 'Good evening.' That was tho way in which the 
 discussion was concluded." Mr. Parnell ended his speech on 
 Mr. Clancy's amendment by repeating his offer to retire from the 
 chairmanship upon the terms he had stated, and he suggested 
 that two resolutions of his own should be substituted for Mr. 
 Clancy's, as defining more exactly his own position and that of 
 his opponents. The good faith of this suggestion was suspected 
 by the anti-Parnellites, and a very heated and angry discussion 
 followed. Two important matters which had cropped up in the 
 debates of tho provious days were brought out with fresh clear- 
 ness. Mr. Sexton once more stated that tho only reason why he 
 and his friends desired to got rid of Mr. Parnell, was to satisfy 
 the scruples of the British Gladstonians. It became their duty, 
 he said, to call upon their leader to abdicate "as soon as it 
 became apparent to them, that the result of Mr. Parnell's reten- 
 tion of his leadership would be infallibly to draw away from 
 the Liberal camp a sufficient proportion of the doctors of the 
 country to render victory impossible." It was then that Mr. 
 Sexton's conscience uttored its irrevocable fiat, and that tho man 
 who had proposed Mr. Parnell as chairman, and had told 
 other members that his leadership should bo continued, bocamo 
 at twonty-four hours' notice his steadfast opponent. Per- 
 sonal considerations, Mr. Sexton was at pains to insist, had 
 no place in their thoughts. "Ho, for his part, had no other ambi- 
 tion but to servo his country in the ranks." The anti-Parnellites, 
 indeed, still professed their oagornoss to leave to Mr. Parnell tho 
 Bubstanco of his power. In the debate of Tuesday, Decemoer 2,
 
 Chap. IV. 
 
 INTRODUCTION. xvii. 
 
 Mr. M. J. Kenny, an anti-Parnellite, had stated that on the pre- 
 vious Wednesday, the first day upon which the party met after D , ~ 
 the publication of Mr. Gladstone's letter to Mr. Morley, a com- 
 promise had been tendered to Mr. Parnell by his opponents. They 
 had suggested "that Mr. Parnell should retire from the chair for 
 a time, they undertaking not to fill it up in the meantime." Mr. 
 Kenny's statement was now expanded and confirmed by Mr. 
 Sexton. " If they were to change their leader," he declared, 
 " it would be possible for them to surround him with a Cabinet ; 
 and in this connexion he had told Mr. Parnell that in his retire- 
 ment he could nominate the committee." Mr. Healy, "with 
 much emotion," .had already pledged himself on Wednesday 
 that, if Mr. Parnell accepted the judgment of the ma- 
 jority on the sufficiency of the assurances of the Libe- 
 ral leaders, • " his voice would be the first, at the very 
 earliest moment possible consonant with the liberties of his 
 country, to call him back to his proper place as leader of 
 the Irish race." There is no evidence to show that Mr. Parnell 
 was much affected by either the promises or the emotion of the 
 men of whose fidelity he had just experienced such convincing 
 proofs. He adhered to the terms he had offered the majority, 
 and when "the storm in a tea-cup," as he called it,provoked by 
 their suspicions of his proposed substitutes for Mr. Clancy's 
 resolution had been lulled, he explicitly pledged himself to 
 resign if, by vote, the majority of the party decided that the 
 answer of the Liberal leaders was satisfactory. Thereupon Mr. 
 Clancy's resolution was carried in a slightly modified form, 
 with two dissentients only, and the meeting adjourned to give 
 time for the proposed negotiations with Mr. Gladstone, Sir 
 William Harcourt, and Mr. Morley. The Liberal leaders decided 
 that Mr. Gladstone alone, as leader of the Liberal party, could 
 speak in its name, and accordingly Sir William Harcourt and Mr. 
 Morley declined to see the delegates of the Irish Parliamentary 
 party. After a good deal of rather puerile diplomacy, in the course 
 of which Mr. Gladstone granted the delegates an interview, he 
 finally refused to make any statement of the intentions of himself 
 and his colleagues on any provisions of a Home Rule Bill, " in 
 connexion with the question of the leadership of the Irish party." 
 In other words, Mr. Gladstone made Mr. Parnell's deposition a 
 condition precedent to any announcement of his intentions, nor 
 
 2
 
 I ii \r.IV. 
 Dec. !-">. 
 
 i'nw. V. 
 Dec. 5-10. 
 
 xviii. INTRODUCTION. 
 
 did ho give any definite or tangible pledge to make such an an- 
 Douncement, even confidentially, if that condition were fulfilled. 
 
 It is difficult to suppose that Mr. Parnell did not from the 
 first foresee that these proceedings would be fruitless. In any 
 event, he risked nothing by the offers he had made. If by any 
 inconceivable piece of fatuity the Liberal leaders had given the 
 delegates clear and positive assurances upon the subjects referred 
 to them, Mr. Parnell's holdover his countrymen and over his party 
 would have become stronger than ever. He had elicited from Mr. 
 Sexton a promise that under no circumstances should ho bo called 
 upon to retire from Parliament. His retirement from the leader- 
 ship, accomplished upon such terms, would have been 
 universally regarded by Irish Nationalists as a crowning per- 
 sonal sacrifice to his country's cause — a sacrifice insuring the 
 substitution of truo national independence for the sham " self- 
 government " of 3886. In the popularity won by the achieve- 
 ment of so solid an advantage Mr. Parnell would have possessed 
 a real security that the promises of Mr. Sexton and Mr. Healy 
 would be kept — that his retirement would be merely nominal, 
 and that it would be brief. If, on the other hand, assurances 
 had been given which were not clear and positive, and they were 
 nevertheless pronounced to be satisfactory by the solemn vote of Mr. 
 Parnell's opponents, he would have been able to quote their action 
 to their constituents as a convincing proof that they were either 
 " traitors " or fools. When, as actually happened, the Liberal 
 loaders doclined to give any assurances at all, Mr. Parnell 
 could plausibly chargo both thom and the seceders from his own 
 party with treachery, and he had gained a delay of several days. 
 
 The fifth and last chapter contains the report of the final meet- 
 ing of tho Irish party on Saturday, December 6, of their disrup- 
 tion that evening by the secession of the majority, of the sub- 
 sequent meetings of tho rival sections on December 8 and 9, and 
 of Mr. Parnell's departure for Ireland on tho evening of the last- 
 named day. The book concludes with the observations of The 
 Times upon tho scene at Euston Station and Mr. Parnell's vale- 
 dictory remarks. 
 
 The earlier part of Saturday's meeting was spont in a prolonged 
 wrangle over a resolution dirocting tho delegates to report upon 
 the negotiations with the Liberal leaders. After the report had 
 been read, Mr. Abraham, an anti-Parnellite, endeavoured to read
 
 INTRODUCTION. 
 
 xix. 
 
 a resolution, in defiance of Mr. Parnell's ruling that Mr. John 
 0'Connor,a member of his own faction, was in possession of the chair. 
 Mr. Abraham handed his resolution to Mr.M'Carthy. Mr. M'Carthy 
 rose, "and was apparently about to read it, when Mr. Parnell, 
 who throughout the scene remained standing, grasped the copy of 
 the resolution from Mr. M'Carthy, saying, ' I will not receive 
 it.' " A scene of great uproar followed, but Mr. Parnell adhered 
 firmly to his ruling, and finally obtained a hearing for Mr. John 
 O'Connor, who moved a long resolution expressing the regret of 
 the party that Mr. Gladstone refused to negotiate with them, or to 
 state his .views on the two vital points submitted for his con- 
 sideration, " except upon the condition that this party shall first 
 remove Mr. Parnell from the chairmanship." A succes- 
 sion of "scenes" followed. A taunt from Mr. J. Redmond 
 describing Mr. Gladstone as " the master of the party " elicited 
 an obvious retort from Mi . Healy , referring to Mr. Parnell's private 
 life. Mr. Parnell replied by calling his assailant "a cowardly little 
 scoundrel " for insulting a woman. Mr. Abraham desired to 
 move, as an amendment to Mr. O'Connor's resolution, a resolu- 
 tion declaring Mr. Parnell's tenure of office at an end. Mr. 
 Parnell ruled that this was a new substantive motion, which could 
 not be put as an amendment. Mr. Healy sneered. Mr. Parnell 
 threatened. Mr. Arthur O'Connor declared they were " in danger 
 of becoming the laughing stock of the world " — a remark which the 
 party, with unconscious humour, greeted with " unanimous 
 cheers " — and adjured them to terminate proceedings which were 
 " rapidly becoming a disgraceful farce." Other members thought 
 differently, and Mr. Leamy had just pleaded, amid cheers, Mr. 
 Parnell's services in having " brought their country to its present 
 glorious position," when Mr. Justin M'Carthy rose, and called 
 upon all who thought with him to retire from the room. Forty- 
 five members thereupon withdrew, and the disruption of, perhaps, 
 the most perfectly disciplined party Parliament has ever seen, 
 was consummated. Mr. Parnell remained behind with twenty-six 
 adherents. After a speech from Colonel Nolan, he rose, and with 
 much bitterness taunted the men who had " deserted " with 
 dreading "the lightning of public opinion in Ireland." They 
 had been false to all their pledges, and Ireland, he declared, had 
 the power and the will to fill the places of the deserters. Mr. John 
 O'Connor's motion was then carried unanimously, and the his- 
 
 Chap. V. 
 Dec. 5-10.
 
 CiiAr. V. 
 
 Dec. 5-10. 
 
 xx. INTRODUCTION. 
 
 toric series of meetings in No. 15 Committee Room came to a 
 close. 
 
 The meetings of the anti-Parnellite faction held between the 
 disruption of the party and Mr. Parnell's departure for Ireland 
 do not call for any extended comment. Mr. Parnell received a 
 characteristically effusive telegram from Mr. William O'Brien, to 
 which ho sent a characteristically curt reply. The delegates to 
 America, with the exception of Mr. T. Harrington, gave in a 
 cautiously-worded adhesion to the seceding majority, and on 
 Tuesday, December 9, six days after the Irish Roman Catholic 
 Bishops had issued their tardy repudiation of Mr. Parnell, and 
 when it had now become quite clear that the majority of the 
 Parliamentary party were committed against him, Sir John 
 Pope Hennessy, the selected Nationalist candidate for North 
 Kilkenny, informed Mr. Parnell that " he could not as an Irish 
 Catholic " support him. Sir John Pope Hennessy was at once 
 adopted by the seceders as their candidate, and the same night 
 Mr. Parnell went over to inaugurate his Irish " Campaign."
 
 THE PARNELLITE SPLIT. 
 
 CHAPTER I. 
 
 THE IRISH PARTY AND THEIR CHIEF. 
 
 MEETING OF THE NATIONAL LEAGUE. 
 
 At the fortnightly meeting of the National League, held in 
 Dublin on November 18, Mb. J. E. Redmond, M.P., who was in 
 the chair said he felt very highly honoured at the privilege of 
 presiding at that meeting, the more so because it afforded him an 
 opportunity of speaking from a position of some authority a few 
 words on a subject which must be uppermost in the minds and 
 hearts of the Irish peoplo that day. They would read with 
 amusement, tempered onl}- with disgust, the stupid and malicious 
 reports in reference to the political position of their leader, Mr. 
 Darnell (loud cheering), which within the last few days had 
 appeared in the columns of the anti-Irish Press in England. Ho 
 took leave to say that the talk that Mr. Darnell's political position 
 had been prejudiced in the remotest degree by what had taken 
 place within the last few days was the most grotescpue absurdity. 
 (Cheers.) Mr. Parnell's colleagues in the House of Commons 
 were bound to him by the double ties of private friendship and 
 political allegiance. (Cheers.) For himself he might say that 
 for the last ten years Mr. Parnell had been his friend, and nothing 
 had been done that could tend in the remotest degree to weaken 
 that friendship. On the contrary, it did seem to him that when 
 trouble came to him, when a shadow came to burden his life, it 
 was the time for every man who called himself his friend to draw 
 closer and nearer to him. (Cheers.) Private friendship was one 
 thing ; political allegiance was an entirely different thing. The 
 Irish party were bound to their leader by ties of absolute 
 confidence and unswerving allegiance, and in that the Irish party 
 reflected the sentiment of the entire Irish people. (Cheers.) The 
 
 Nov. 18.
 
 Nov. 18. 
 
 2 THE I1MS11 PARTY AND THEIR CHIEF. 
 
 position which Mr. Paine!] occupied that day in politics had 
 been won by ten years of unceasing courage and unparalleled suc- 
 cess. (Cheers.) lie found Ireland weak, hopeless, and despised. 
 Ho had brought her to-day to a position of power. From the com- 
 mencement of his political career down to that moment he had 
 been assailed by the remorseless and undying hato of Ireland's 
 enemies. No weapon was too mean to be used in attacks upon 
 him in public and in private, and the measuro of Mr. 
 Parnell's fidelity to the Irish causo had been the measure of the 
 hatred of his enemies, He had borne those attaeks with 
 patience, and the Irish people were not so foolish and so 
 ungrateful as to forget those things at a moment of this kind. 
 (Cheers.) It is quite possible that if Mr. Parnell were to con- 
 sider his own selfish interest he might, perhaps, evade the duties 
 and responsibilities of his great position ; but if tho Irish people 
 thought Mr. Parnell entertained the remotest idea of taking such 
 a course, he believed the whole Irish race would go to him, and 
 beg of him to maintain his position at their head. Hut, with 
 that indomitable resolution which was, perhaps, his most pro- 
 minent characteristic, Mr. Parnell had stated his intention to 
 stand by Ireland to the last, and they would tell him that never, 
 in his whole political career, were the Irish people more deter- 
 mined to stand-by him than they were to-day. (Cheers.) It 
 was quite true that the meeting and Mr. Parnell himself would 
 consider that these observations of his were unnecessary. But 
 he thought it was desirable that their friends in England and 
 Scotland should not be misled for a moment by the attacks which 
 were being made by the enemies of Ireland. Mr. Parnell had 
 that day, as ho had at the commencement, the enthusiastic devo- 
 tion and unswerving political allogiance of the Irish people. 
 (Cheers.) He asserted, and he spoke in the name of the whole 
 of Mr. Parnell's colleagues in the House of Commons, that the 
 nation stood united as one man at tho back of their leader. He 
 believed if the malicious attacks by their enemies on their poli- 
 tical leader should bo persisted in they would result in strength- 
 ening the power of Mr. Parnell, and rendering more united at his 
 back the forces of the national movement. (Cheers.) 
 
 Alderman Dillon said Mr. Parnell would read with pleasure 
 and satisfaction of the reception which had been given to his 
 name that day at one of the largest meetings of the National
 
 NATIONAL LEAGUE MEETING. 3 
 
 League held in that room for some months. This further attempt 
 to hurl him from the leadership would only secure him more 
 firmly than ever in his position as leader of the Irish party. 
 
 Mil. Leamy, M.P., saitl this question was one between the 
 Irish people and Mr. Parnell, and the Irish people would not 
 accept the interference of any one outside, whether friend or not. 
 (Hear, hear.) Mr. Parnell was the chosen leader, and as long as 
 he was willing to lead they were willing to follow. (Cheers.) 
 The attack on Mr. Parnell was not due to any sense of morality, 
 but was a matter of revenge for the success he had achieved over 
 his enemies. It was not a sense of morals that inspired his 
 enemies, but a feeling of hate, because he had done so much 
 good for Ireland, and would continue to do good for Ireland, and 
 would continue to do good for the country. (Cheers.) The time 
 was opportune for declaring their loyalty to Mr. Parnell, and the 
 Irish party would rally around him next week with more devotion 
 than ever, when he would be again leading the combat in tho 
 House of Commons. (Cheers.) He wondered what would be 
 thought of the men who might suggest that it was necessary to 
 get some one else to be chairman of the party. (Laughter.) He 
 would like to see an Irish member who would propose any one 
 else go before his constituency. He would like to see any one 
 who would have the audacity to do such a thing. 
 
 Dr. Kenny, M.P., said it was their duty to declare their un- 
 altered attachment to Mr. Parnell through weal and woe. If ever 
 a man was necessary for the cause of a country, Mr. Parnell was 
 necessary for theirs. (Hear, hear.) The Irish people .saw in 
 him the wisdom and indomitable courage that were necessary for 
 their leader, and he had now brought them to the gate of success. 
 They would not permit him to give up his position, even if he 
 was inclined to do so. It would be simply effrontery on the part 
 of the English or Scotch people to interfere in this question, and 
 the Irish people had made up their minds that Mr. Parnell was 
 to be their leader. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. W. A. Macdonald, M.P., said he entertained strong 
 opinions in reference to this matter. He had been long of the 
 opinion that private matters of this kind had nothing to do, and 
 ought to have nothing to do, with a man's public position. He 
 always regretted the retirement of Sir Charles Dilke, because of 
 his great efficiency in his department. One of the reasons why 
 
 a— 2 
 
 Nov. 18.
 
 Nov. 18. 
 
 1 Till: [BISH PAETY AND THEIR CHIEF. 
 
 he Eelt that Mr. Parnell should continue as their leader was that 
 if the events of the Last two days had occurred a year ago, when 
 the English people were wavering, the Irish cause would have 
 been injured (cries of "No, no," and expressions of dissent); 
 lmt lie believed no injury would now be done to the Irish cause 
 by what occurred, and the people of England would be guilty of 
 gross ingratitude if they did not recognize Mr. Parnell 's services 
 in Ireland. (Hear.) 
 
 Count Pli.nki m said Mr. Parnell was not on his trial before 
 the Irish people, who had no reason to change their position 
 towards him. 
 
 Mr. W. Redmond, M.P., said Mr. Parnell. had endeared him- 
 self to the Irish party, and he looked on him as the greatest 
 champion that ever fought for Ireland. He would not only follow 
 Mr. Parnell in the House of Commons, but would follow him to 
 death, if necessary. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mi;. J. J. Clancy, M.P., said that when the matters decided 
 within the last few days were first mentioned, he wrote to Mr. 
 Parnell, telling him that, whatever the consequences might be, 
 he might count on his support so long as he was true to Ireland. 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Mn. J. G. S. MacNeill, M.P., also expressed his unswerving 
 affection foj and allegiance to Mr. Parnell, and said he hoped he 
 would be by his side when Mr. Parnell made his lirst speech in 
 the Parliament of College-green. (Cheers.) 
 
 Other speeches followed in the same strain. 
 
 VIEWS OF THE AMERICAN DELKtiATES. 
 
 fn (ho course of the same day, the following opinions on Mr. 
 >\o\.ib. Pamell' s -position were expressed by the undermentioned mem- 
 bers of the Parnellite delegation to America : — 
 
 Mr. Gill, M.I'., speaking for himself and for Mr. Dillon and 
 Mr. O'Brien, said:--" The result of the case of 'O'Shea v. O'Shea 
 and Parnell' cannot affect Mr. Parnell' s standing in political 
 life. The issue in the case is of little importance. Mr. Parnell 
 has thought lit not to defend himself. That is his business, and 
 the fact' ought not to enter into politics, nor become a factor in 
 legislative questions between England and Ireland. So far as I 
 can sec, the Irish Parliamentary party will take no notice of the
 
 THE AMERICAN DELEGATES. 5 
 
 verdict." Mr. Gill stated tho circumstances of the election of 
 Mr. Pamell to tho leadership of the party. After the death of 
 Mr. Butt, he said, the party was divided between Mr. Parnell 
 and Mr. Shaw, there being 10 in favour of each, thus causing a 
 deadlock. Then Captain 0' Shea, who was the thirty -third mem- 
 ber of the party, entered the room and cast a deciding vote for 
 Mr. Parnell. By this act, therefore, Mr. Pamell was made leader 
 of the Irish Parliamentaiy party. 
 
 Mb. O'Bkien himself, in the course of an interview, said that 
 he regarded the attack of the Tory newspajsers on Mr. Parnell as 
 beneath notice. For ten years, he continued, the same pajners had 
 assailed Mr. Parnell's character, not from motives of public 
 morality, but on account of his unrivalled leadership. With 
 regard to the O'Shea case, Mt. O'Brien said he knew nothing, 
 but he went on to vituperate Captain O'Shea in extreme terms. 
 He added : — " The Irish party and people ma} 7 be trusted to safe- 
 guard the interests of the cause without the least regard to the 
 rumours set afloat by moralists like Pigott's employers." 
 
 Mr. T. P. O'Connor was also clear that it was for the Irish 
 alone to choose their leader, that they would cling to Mr. Parnell, 
 and that the Gladstonian Liberals would not interfere with their 
 choice. He said that "the Irish envoys knew that the people 
 at home were resolved to keep Mr. Parnell at the head of the 
 party. With regard to the Gladstonian Liberals, he believed 
 that they would act at the present conjuncture according to their 
 convictions on the Irish question. Their policy was to leave to 
 the Irish the government of their own affairs, and that included 
 the choice of leader. It was for the Irish people alone to choose 
 their leader, and, besides, all the English statesmen acknow- 
 ledged that Mr. Parnell was the greatest Parliamentary leader 
 that the Irish had ever had. His disappearance from that post 
 would create dismaj T among the Nationalists." 
 
 Nov. is. 
 
 THE LEINSTER HALL MEETING. 
 
 Two days later, on Thursday, November 20, a great meeting 
 was held in the Leinster Hall, Dublin. The meeting was con- 
 vened for the purpose of considering the policy of the Govern- 
 ment in Ireland, to reiterate the demand for Home Rule, and to 
 forward the movement in aid of evicted tenants. It was, how- 
 
 No v. 20.
 
 6 THE IRISH PARTY AND THEIE CHIEF. 
 
 Nov 20 ° VOr ' s P 00(1il y turned into a demonstration in support of Mr. 
 Parnell. Twenty-five members of the Irish Parliamentary party 
 attended. 
 
 Among those on the platform were Messrs. Justin M'Carthy, 
 M.P., William Murphy, M.P., William Redmond, M.P., Pierce 
 Mahony, M.P., T. Healy, M.P., J. Redmond, M.P., Thomas 
 Condon, M.P., Dr. Kenny, M.P., Swift M'Neill, M.P., J. J. 
 Clancy, M.P., the Right Hon. S. Walker, Sorjcant Hemphill, 
 The Macdermot, Q.C., &c. 
 
 On the motion of Mr. William Muri>hy, M.P., the chair was 
 taken by the Lord Mayor of Dublin. 
 
 Dr. Kenny read the following telegram, which had been re- 
 ceived from the Irish delegates in America : — 
 
 " We stand firmly by the leadership of the man who has 
 brought the Irish people through unparalleled difficulties and 
 dangers and from servitude and despair to the very threshold of 
 emancipation with a genius, courage, and success unequalled in 
 any history. (Cheers.) We do so not only out of gratitude for 
 those unparalleled services in the past, but in profound conviction 
 that Mr. Pamell's statesmanship and matchless qualities as 
 leader are essential to the safety of our cause." (Cheers.) 
 
 The Lord Mayor, in opening the proceedings, said it must be 
 a great support to Mr. Parnell, whose life and fame and hope 
 were centred and bound up with the causo of Ireland naturally, 
 to see that there was no diminution in the number and the 
 warmth of his followers ; but that, on the contrary, they massed 
 themselves at his back compactly as on the joyful day when his 
 heel was planted on the neck of the malignant and fallen foe. It 
 was living in England that caused any lapse that had occurred 
 in Mr. Parnell. If he had lived in Ireland he would never have 
 been contaminated by O'Shea. However, he had chosen to koep 
 silence, and that was his own affair. They had no more right to 
 question his private action and motives than they had to inter- 
 fere with him as a Protestant if he choso not to go to church on 
 Sunday or eat meat on Friday. (Cheers and laughter.) The only 
 crime Ireland would know of Mr. Parnell was one which she 
 knew was impossible in him— the crime of treason to Ireland. 
 (Cheers.) 
 Mr. Justin M'Carthy, M. P., moved : — 
 
 " That this meeting, interpreting the sentimont of tho Irish
 
 LEINSTER HALL MEETING— MR. M'CARTHY. 7 
 
 people tliat no side issue shall be permitted to obstruct tlio pro- 
 gress of the great cause of Home Rule for Ireland, declares that 
 in all political matters Mr. Panic] 1 possesses the conlidence of 
 the Irish nation, and that this meeting rejoices at the determina- 
 tion of the Irish Parliamentary party to stand by their leader." 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. M'Carthy said they were not going to change their leader 
 because of the cry raised against him. (Hear, hear.) He did not 
 know whether it might not have been chivalrous and generous 
 motives that induced Mr. Parnell not to enter any defence in the 
 action, but they might take from him the suggestion that if Mr. 
 Frank Lockwood had been allowed to cross-examine they would 
 have a very different story before them. (Cheers.) If they found 
 a leader of consummate skill and absolute devotion, a man who 
 could lead them as no one else was ever able to lead the Irish 
 cause, a man who had raised the Irish cause far beyond the level 
 to which it was raised by Grattan or O'Connell, were they going 
 to change this man and set up some wholly inferior man in his 
 place because some Tory and Liberal Secessionist newspapers 
 said that the man had gone wrong 1 (Cries of " JNo, no.") No 
 man of common sense would accept such a doctrine as that. If 
 Mr. Parnell had gone morally wrong, was that the least reason to 
 excuse him from doing his duty to the people whom ho was lead- 
 ing to victory ? They all knew they could not do without him, 
 and their duty was, firstly, secondly, and lastly, to raise their 
 country. (Cheers.) No one could say that the Irish race was 
 wanting in honour or in virtue, and they certainly should not like 
 to go to the London Press, or the Press of the Tory party, or the 
 Liberal Secessionist party, for instructions in 1 these subjects. 
 (Cheers.) They would say to their opponents in England : — 
 " Look to your own men and women and do not touch Irish men 
 and women." (Cheers.) The speaker, in conclusion, expressed 
 a conviction that the cause would be carried on to most perfect 
 success under the leadership of Mr. Parnell. He did not believe 
 they would lose in this contest one honest Englishman, Scotch- 
 man, or Irishman who stood by them from the first. (Cheers.) 
 There might be some who would fall away from them, not only 
 in Great Britain, but over here, and to those people he could only 
 say let them fall away ; the national cause would go on without 
 them. (Cheers.) 
 
 Nov. 20.
 
 8 THE IRISH I 'ARTY AND THEIR CHIEF. 
 
 Nov 20 Mu ' T " M * Hea '- y ' MP j seconded the motion. Ho said that 
 
 Eor Irishmen Mr. Pamell was less a man than an institution. If 
 he were to-morrow to resign his scat for Cork he would be in- 
 stantly re-elected. (Cheers.) Mr. Balfour might go down and 
 oppose him with the hattlo cry of " light railways and heavy sen- 
 tences." (Laughter and cheers.) They were accused by their 
 opponents of being servile to Mr. Pamell, but who, he would ask, 
 was servilo to Mr. Parnell ? He (Mr. Bealy) was no man's man 
 but Ireland's (cheers), and he supported the resolution, not for 
 the sake of Mr. Parnell as an individual, but for the sake of Ire- 
 land as a nation. (Cheers.) He observed that there was from 
 ono quarter whore he would have expected silence a recommenda- 
 tion to Mr. Parnell to retire. Some of them might have heard of 
 the king who never said a foolish thing, and who said to his 
 brother James, "Nobody, my friend, will ever kill me to make 
 you king." (Laughter and cheers.) When he (Mr. Healy) 
 thought of the possibilities that might occur were they to join in 
 this demand for dethronement of Mr. Parnell he saw a very 
 pretty party in the House of Commons. (Cheers and laughter.) 
 They would see included in it representatives of the Socialists, 
 the land nationalizes, the barristers, and probably the attorneys. 
 (Laughter.) He looked at this question in a very different 
 manner from the way the English people looked at it. Thoy were 
 born Irishmen and Nationalists, and they remembered the time, 
 not yet ten years ago, when Ireland stood ragged and distressed 
 tagging at the gate of nations, when the representation in Parlia- 
 ment was a bye-word and a disgrace, when the sacred House of 
 Commons was little better than an auction mart for the honour of 
 Irish representatives, and he would never for a moment forget 
 who it was that had changed all that. (Cheers.) Tho right to 
 govern Ireland depended on the personal character of no man. 
 If they were convinced of tho righteousness of Home Rule, the 
 instruments they selected for the purpose of guiding them 
 towards it was a matter for them, and not for tho English people, 
 but for Ireland. (Cheers.) For his part, he declined to take tho 
 cork out of the soda-water bottlo to see it fizz. (Laughter and 
 cheers.) Ho was satisfied with a National party, and by tho 
 National party and the National leader he would abide. While 
 thoy owed a duty to Mr. Parnell, the latter owed a duty to thorn. 
 Thoy had stood by Mr. Parnell, and Mr. Parnell must stand by
 
 leinstei: HALL MEETING— MR. HEALY. !) 
 
 them. (Hear, hear.) He would only say, in conclusion, that ho 
 joined in the metaphor used by Mr. M'Carthy with reference to 
 the ship sailing under experienced hands and at a time of 
 crisis and danger and struggle recommend to them the weather- 
 beaten monition : — " You are requested not to speak to the man 
 at the wheel." (Continued cheers.) 
 
 The resolution was supported by Mr. Samuel Walker, Q.C., 
 Mr. Pierce Mahony, M.P., and the Mayor of Cork, and carried 
 unanimously. Mr. John Redmond moved the following resolu- 
 tion : — " That, impressed by the generous sentiments of the 
 masses of the people of Great Britain and their determination to 
 end for ever the misgovernment of our country, this meeting, 
 assuring them of the gratitude of Irishmen, repels with indigna- 
 tion every suggestion of compromise terms with the coercion 
 Ministry, and declares its satisfaction at the policy of combat 
 announced by Mr. Parnell for the coming Session." 
 
 The Macdermot, Q.C., seconded the resolution, and Mr. J. J. 
 Clancy, M.P., and Colonel Nolan having spoken in support of 
 it, the resolution was carried unanimously. 
 
 A vote of thanks having been passed to the Lord Mayor for 
 presiding, the proceedings terminated. 
 
 Nov. 20. 
 
 MR. PARNELL RE-ELECTED BY HIS PARTY. 
 
 Parliament re-assembled on Tuesday, November 25. Pursuant 
 to the notice which he had issued to his followers on November 
 15 — the first day of the divorce action — Mr. Parnell met the 
 members of the Irish party in No. 15 Committee Room shortly 
 before 3 o'clock. A full muster awaited his appearance, and the 
 welcome accorded to him was enthusiastic in the extreme. Loud 
 cheers were given as he entered the room, and much hand- 
 shaking and many assurances of continued allegiance preceded 
 the business of the day. 
 
 On the motion of Mr. M'Carthy, Mr. Richard Power, the 
 principal Whip of the Nationalist part}*, was voted to the chair. 
 The first business was the re-election of Mr. Parnell as chairman 
 of the party, which was proposed by Mr Sexton, seconded by 
 Colonel Nolan, and agreed to amid loud applause. 
 
 Mr. Parnell thanked the meeting for this furtherand fresh proof 
 of their confidence in him, and stated that, in response to their 
 
 Nov. 25.
 
 10 
 
 THE IRISH TARTY AND THEIR CHIEF. 
 
 Nov. 
 
 unanimous desire, ho would continue to discharge tho duties of 
 leader. After some further formal business the meeting 
 adjourned, having lasted about an hour.
 
 MR. GLADSTONE'S ULTIMATUM. 11 
 
 CHAPTER II. 
 
 MR. GLADSTONE'S ULTIMATUM AND ITS EFFECT. 
 
 In the course of the afternoon of the same day, November 25, 
 the following letter from Mr. Gladstone -to Mr. John Morley was 
 communicated to Mr. Parnell : — 
 
 " 1, Carlton-gardens, Nov. 24, 1890. 
 
 " My dear Morley, — Having arrived at a certain conclusion 
 with regard to the continuance at the present moment of Mr. 
 PamelPs leadership of the Irish party, I have seen Mr. 
 M'Carthy on my arrival in town, -and have inquired from him 
 whether I was likely to receive from Mr. Parnell himself any 
 communication on the subject. Mr. M'Carthy replied that he 
 was unable to give me any information on the subject. 
 
 " I mentioned to him that in 1882, after the terrible murder in 
 the Phoenix Park, Mr. Parnell, although totally removed from 
 any idea of responsibility, had spontaneously written to me, 
 and offered to take the Chiltern Hundreds, an offer much to his 
 honour, but one which I thought it my duty to decline. 
 
 " While clinging to the hope of communication from Mr. 
 Parnell, to whomsoever addressed, I thought it necessary, view- 
 ing the arrangements for the commencement of the Session to- 
 morrow, to acquaint Mr. M'Carthy with the conclusion at which, 
 after using all the means of observation and reflection in my 
 power, I had myself arrived. It was that, notwithstanding the 
 splendid services rendered by Mr. Parnell to his country, his 
 continuance at the present moment in the leadership would be 
 productive of consequences disastrous in the highest degree to 
 the cause of Ireland. I think I may be warranted in asking you 
 so far to expand the conclusion I have given above as to add that 
 the continuance I speak of would not only place many hearty 
 and effective friends of the Irish cause in a position of grea.t 
 
 Nov,
 
 12 MR. GLADSTONES ULTIMATUM. 
 
 embarrassment, but would render my retention of fcho leadership 
 of the Libera] party, based as it has been mainly upon the pro- 
 secution of the Irish cause, almost a nullity. This ( xpansion of 
 my views 1 beeped Mr. M'C'arthv to repaid as confidential, and 
 not .intended for his colleagues generally if he found that Mr. 
 Parnell contemplated spontaneous action ; but I also begged that 
 he would mako known to the Irish party, at their meeting to- 
 morrow afternoon, that such was my conclusion, if he should find 
 that Mr. Parnell had not in contemplation any step of the nature 
 indicated. 
 
 " 1 now write to you, in case Mr. M'C'arthv should be unable to 
 communicate with Mr. Parnell, as I understand you maypossiMv 
 liavo an opening to-mormw through another channel. Should 
 you have such an opening, i beg you to make known to Mr. 
 Parnell the conclusion itself, which I have stated in the earlier 
 part of this letter. 1 have thought it best to put it in terms 
 simple and direct, much as I should have desired, had it lain 
 within my power, to alleviate the personal nature of the situation. 
 As respects the manner of conveying what my public duty has 
 made it an obligation to say, I rely entirely on your good feeling, 
 (art, and judgment. 
 
 ' : Believe me sincerely yours, 
 
 " \Y. E. Gladstone. 
 
 " Right Hon. John Morley, M.P."* 
 
 *The verdict in O 'Shea v. O' Shea and Parnell was found on 
 Monday, November 17 ; Mr. Gladstone's letter to Mr. Morley is 
 dated November -4. The following passage from a speech 
 delivered by Mr. Gladstone at the Retford Railway Station on 
 December 11, may help to explain his silence during the week 
 that intervened : — 
 
 Well, thou came the proceedings in the Divorre Court, and those 
 proceedings produced in my mind this effect. I am now telling you 
 what is my own personal impression. I felt that the effect of those 
 proceedings would lie, so far as I could judge, to destroy entirely the 
 moral weight and the moral force which are absolutely necessary in 
 Parliament for anyone who is to be the leading champion of a fiint 
 rational cause. I'ui I felt also that we ought to look to Mr. Parnell 
 himself to recognize that fact, and I know very well that it was ini- 
 ppssible that the question could reach a satisfactory sedation except by 
 his spontaneous action. (Cheers.) Therefore I determined to watch 
 the state of feeling in this country, and I very soon found that the 
 Liberal party in this country had made up its mind to draw a broad
 
 IlJiy II MEMBERS DISCUSS ABDICATION. 13 
 
 The tenour of Mr. Gladstone's letter soon became known 
 amongst the Nationalist members, and great excitement followed. 
 They gathered in groups in tlio corridors and lobbies, and con- 
 sternation marked every face. After some informal consultation 
 of this kind, another meeting of the Irish party was called. 
 
 At this second meeting, which was held in the Conference 
 Room at 9 o'clock, and was not so largely attended as the first, a 
 copy of Mr. Gladstone's letter to Mr. John Morley was read, and 
 considerable discussion took place in reference to its contents. 
 All present admitted that after such a pronouncement the gravity 
 of the situation had increased tenfold. Mr. Parnell did not 
 remain at St. Stephen's long after the commencement of the 
 Address, and he was consequently absent from the meeting. For 
 this reason it was resolved to postpone any decisive action for 
 the present. The copy of Mr. Gladstone's letter was sent on to 
 Mr. Parnell, and the meeting adjourned until next day, the 
 member for Cork being apprised of the fact. 
 
 Nov, 
 
 MEETING OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 The adjourned meeting of the Irish Parliamentary Party was 
 held in No. 15 Committee Room at 2 o'clock on Wednesday, 
 November 2G. 
 
 Mr. Parnell, as chairman of the party, presided. Among 
 those present were Messrs. Justin M'Carthy, vice-chairman of 
 the party, J. Huntly M'Carthy, Knox, Tuite, Donal Sullivan, 
 Commins, Hayden, Arthur O'Connor, Leamy, J. J. O'Kelly, 
 Barry, Pierce Mahony, Swift MacNeill, Joseph Nolan, Crillv, 
 \V. A. Macdonald, Peter M'Donahl, Blane, Condon, Sheehy, 
 John O'Connor, P. J. O'Brien, E. Harrington, Webb, Lane, 
 Morrogh, Molloy, T. A. Dickson, Murphy, Dalton, Fox, Deasy, 
 Pinkerton, Flynn, H. Campbell, Quinn, Sheehan, Foley, R, 
 Power, Stack, Harrison, Clancy, Sir Thomas Esmonde, Colonel 
 Nolan, Dr. Kenny, and Dr. Tanner. 
 
 distinction between the national cause of Ireland and the person and 
 the personal office of Mr. Parnell. (Cheers.) In fact, it became 
 clear to me — and I am now speaking only as a witness of the fact — it 
 became clear to me that the persistence of Mr. Parnell in the leader- 
 ship of the Irish party would be completely fatal to the cause of Home 
 Rule in England, Scotland, and Wales. (Cheers.) 
 
 Nov. 26.
 
 Nov. 2G. 
 
 14 MR. GLADSTONE'S ULTIMATUM. 
 
 Mk. Pakxell formally opened tho proceedings, but made no 
 speech. 
 
 .Mk. Baeey, member for South Wexford, was the first to broach 
 the subjoet of the day. He appealed to Mr. Parnell, as a co- 
 adjutor of 11 or 12 years' standing, not to tako a step which 
 might prejudice .for years the causo in the promotion of winch 
 they had been so long engaged. He referred in touching lan- 
 guage to the services which Mr. Parnell had rendered to tho 
 party, but urged that the present crisis was one which demanded 
 a personal sacrifice for the good of tho country, and he put it to 
 tho Nationalist leader whether in the light of Mr. Gladstone's 
 letter it would not bo the wisest course for him to retire for a 
 period from the leadership of the party. 
 
 Dk. Commix s, another old coadjutor of Mr. Parnell 's, fol- 
 lowed. He said he had been associated with tho leader for many 
 years, and he thought he was therefore entitled to speak. He 
 would regret as deeply as any one Mr. Parnell' s retirement, but 
 he felt that expediency demanded that he should adopt this 
 course for a time. 
 
 Me. Justin M'CAHTiiY,in an eloquent and impassioned speech, 
 dwelt at longth on the sacrifices which Mr. Parnell had made in 
 the causo of his country. Having regard to Mr. Gladstone's 
 letter, however, he had come to the conclusion that tho situation 
 had undergone a material change since the previous day, and ho 
 endorsed tho view which had been expressed by the last two 
 speakers as to the advisability of the position being recon- 
 sidered. 
 
 Mil. Sextox held the same view, and in a speech which lasted 
 nearly three-quarters of an hour made certain suggestions with a 
 view to an amicable settlement He regretted the absence of 
 Messrs. Dillon and O'Brien at such a juncture, but thought that 
 the best course to adopt would bo to ask every member of the party 
 for an expression of opinion on tho subject of tho leadership. 
 The proposal was received with applause. 
 
 Mu. Laxe referred to the case of the tenants on the Ponsonby 
 estate, and pressed upon Mr. Parnell the undesirability of taking 
 any action which would be likely to prejudice them. He re- 
 minded the member for Cork that the farmers on this estate had 
 been waiting for a prolonged period in tho anticipation that their 
 prospects would be improved by a general election, and he ex-
 
 IRISH MEMBERS DISCUSS ABDICATION. 15 
 
 pressed an earnest hope that their expectations might not bo dis- 
 appointed just as they were on the verge of realization. He ap- 
 preciated to the full the sacrifices which Mr. Parnell had made 
 in the cause of Ireland, but ho thought the temporary retirement 
 of their chief would be the best thing that could happen at tho 
 present juncture. 
 
 After some further conversation, in the course of which Colonel 
 Nolan and others urged Mr. Parnell to stick to his post, and not 
 to permit himself to be dictated to by Mr. Gladstone when his 
 own party had spoken unanimously in favour of his retention of 
 the leadership, the meeting was adjourned in order to allow mem- 
 bers who had charge of Bills to proceed to the House and take 
 part in the ballot, which was fixed for 3 30 p.m. 
 
 At 5 o'clock the conference was resumed, and further speeches 
 were delivered. 
 
 Me. Sheehy spoke at some length with regard to the Smith- 
 Barry tenants, on whose behalf he had been labouring for a long 
 time, and, taking the same line as Mr. Lane, asked what would 
 happen to these unfortunate people if the next general election 
 went against the Home Rule party. The people in Tipperary 
 were living on in the hope that an appeal to the constituencies 
 would bring not merely comfort and prosperity to the country, but 
 their own restoration to their homes. For the sake of the Smith- 
 Barry tenants, he appealed to Mr. Parnell to consider carefully 
 whether it would not be best for him to retire for a time from the 
 leadership. 
 
 After some further discussion, in the course of which Mr. John 
 O'Connor spoke strongly in favour of Mr. Parnell's continuance 
 at the head of the party, a suggestion was made that the meeting 
 should be postponed until the following Monday, in order that 
 time might be given for obtaining the views of the absent members. 
 Some members objected to this, and further discussion took place ; 
 but eventually the proposal was adopted amid cheers. 
 
 Mr. Parnell, who throughout the proceedings had maintained 
 the attitude of a listener, closed the proceedings by simply leav- 
 ing the chair. 
 
 Nov. 26. 
 
 MICHAEL DAVITT ON MR. PARNELL. 
 
 The New York Sun and other New York papers of November 27 Nov. 27.
 
 Nov. 27. 
 
 1G MR. GLADSTONE'S ULTIMATUM. 
 
 published a long interview with Michael Davitfc, in which the 
 following passages occur : — 
 
 .Mn. Michael Davitt, < n Leaving the conference held 3 esterday 
 (Wednesday) evening by the chiefs of the Homo Rule movement, 
 gave a complete and categorical statement of bis views of the effect 
 of the Parnell scandal upon the cause of Home Rule. 
 
 Mr. Davitt, who appeared to be suffering from great depression 
 of spirits, expresses himself as follows : — 
 
 " The crisis is unquestionably the most serious that has arisen 
 for the last 20 years in connexion with the Irish cause. It is now 
 a question whether the Irish people are to lose all chance of Home 
 Rule for the next dozen years by clinging to the discredited cha- 
 racter and leadership of Mr. Parnell, or whether, by throwing him 
 over, they are to secure that for which Ireland has made untold 
 sacrifices in supporting the Land League and National League 
 movements. 
 
 " The decision practically rests with the Irish Parliamentary 
 party. Mr. Parnell has been appealed to in vain— first by men 
 who have worked with him faithfully since he entered public life ; 
 secondly, by the best friends of Home Rule in Great Britain; 
 and, thirdly, at the meeting held yesterday evening, by Mr. Justin 
 M'Carthy, Mr. Sexton, and his most trusty lieutenants. He is 
 deaf to all these appeals, and still resolves to maintain his 
 posit i. Hi at any cost to the Irish cause. 
 
 If public feeling in Ireland and the opinion of the Irish in 
 America reinforce that section of the Parliamentary party which 
 is now demanding Mr. ParnelFs retirement, he will find it im- 
 possible to resist any longer. Should he not retire, and should a 
 majority of the party not force him to do so, thon, in my judg- 
 ment, the cause of Home Rule is completely lost — because Mr. 
 Gladstone has made it clear to the public of this free country 
 that he remains as leader of the Home Rule movement only on 
 condition that Mr. Parnell retires from his present position. 
 
 "I think the postponement till Monday is a wise stop, and will 
 be altogether in favour of the right policy. That is, I think it is a 
 healthy sign that Mr. Parnell is not going to have it all his own 
 way. The night before last he had it all his own way by trickery. 
 List night he did not have it all his own way. A most signili-
 
 MR. DAVITT'S VIEWS. 17 
 
 cant incident is that Mr. Justin M'Carthy, the vice chairman 
 of the party, who sided with Mr. Parnell on Tuesday night, 
 addressod a speech last night to Mr. Parnell as chairman, in 
 which he asked him to retire. 
 
 Asked whether Mr. Justin M'Carthy could succeed to tho 
 leadership in the event of Mr. Parnell 's retirement, Mb. Davitt 
 said : — 
 
 " As to that, probably he will. He is at present tho vice- 
 chairman of the party, but he is not at all, in my opinion, com- 
 petent to lead a combativo party. He is a very amiable, cultured 
 man, and thoroughly faithful to the Irish cause." 
 
 On the question being repeated as to who would be the most 
 likely man to succeed Mr. Parnell, and whether he himself had 
 any chance of doing so, Mr. Davitt said : — 
 
 " As to who would be the leader I do not know. I am en- 
 tirely out of the question." 
 
 Asked what he thought of Mr. Dillon's chance, Me. Davitt 
 said *. — 
 
 " If Mr. Dillon was at home I have not the slightest doubt 
 but what he would get a majority of the votes of the party. He 
 is not only popular in Ireland, but he is very highly respected 
 by the Home Rulers here in Great Britain. He is a man of un- 
 questionable earnestness and great ability, and he would, I 
 think, be the most popular of the five or six men who might have 
 any claims to leadership." 
 
 To the question whether he or any other man could command 
 the allegiance of the party, Mr. Davitt replied : — 
 
 " As for me, I am entirely out of the question ; I am not even in 
 Parliament and do not want to be." 
 
 Asked again to say whether he believed that if it should be 
 decided to retain Mr. Parnell' s leadership the cause of Home 
 Rule would be dead, Mr. Davitt said : — 
 
 " The cause of Home Rule is not only dead, but, if you will 
 permit me to say so, is damned for at least 12 3 r ears, Mr. Glad- 
 stone at once throws it up. The Liberal party wipes it off the 
 slate, and, unless the Tories come round and give Ireland 
 Home Rule, which is very unlikely — just about as likely as the 
 Queen sending for me to form a Cabinet — we shall not get it. 
 
 Nov. 27.
 
 Nov. 27. 
 
 18 MR. GLADSTONE'S ULTIMATUM. 
 
 Mr. Davitt, being invited to take into account the enormous in- 
 fluence which the Catholic question had on the subject and to say 
 what he thought of the attitude of the bishops and priests of 
 Ireland in the present juncture, said : — 
 
 " So far that attitude has been — well, I was going to use a very- 
 strong word, but 1 will not ; I will put it this way. They should 
 have spoken out, because, poor as Ireland has heen and trampled 
 upon as she has been in the past, she has at her moral bankers' 
 probably greater crodit than any other nation. In other words, 
 Ireland has always been remarkable for her regard for chastity and 
 virtue, and especially for tho sacred rights of the domestic 
 hearthstone. Well, now, notwithstanding [Mr. Parnell's outrago 
 upon his friend, and his being proved guilty of acting the 
 part of a dishonourable man and thereby tarnishing the 
 movement of which he has been a leader, there has not 
 been an expression of opinion from a single bishop or 
 priest in Ireland, and their neglect of their duty to speak out 
 in the name of Ireland puts them, I am sorry to say, in rather a 
 bad light before the Irish people throughout the world. It has 
 been left to the Nonconformists in England to speak out in plain 
 language about this crimo of Mr. Parnell's. However, it is, 
 perhaps, not too late. Somothing may yet be said by Archbishop 
 Croko or Archbishop Walsh before noxt Monday. But many of 
 us have expected that last week we would have had a pronounce- 
 ment from some of these quarters, which would have told tho 
 world that, although Mr. Parnell is a Protestant and this woman 
 is a Protestant, nevertheless, as Mr. Parnell is our leader, we 
 aro morally concerned in his acts ; and all the more so that as a 
 Catholic people we are jealous of the moral reputation of our 
 raco ; wo should have been before the Nonconformists in express- 
 ing our condemnation." 
 
 Askod whether it was tho fact that in the beginning of the 
 O'Shoa case Mr. Parnell had pledged his word to Mr. Davitt that 
 tho charge against him was untrue, Mr. Davitt replied : — 
 
 " That is almost what occurred when this divorce case was 
 first mentioned in the public Press. I came over from Dublin 
 expressly to see Mr. Parnell, and I succeedod within 12 hours in 
 getting at Captain O'Shea's case and his evidence, and was tho 
 first to tell Mr. Parnoll what Captain O'Shea's case against him 
 was. Mr. Parnell then spoke to me as follows : — ' Davitt, 1 want
 
 MR. DAVITT'S VIEWS. 19 
 
 you to go back to Ireland to tell our friends that I am going to 
 get out of this without the slightest stain on my name or reputa- 
 tion,' and he repeated those words again. I fully believed, and 
 I think he intended me to believe by those words, that he was 
 entirely innocent of the charge made against him. I immedi- 
 ately went and told John Morley so. I crossed over to Ireland 
 and told Archbishop Walsh. Mr. Morley was delighted and so 
 was Archbishop Walsh ; intensely relieved Archbishop Walsh 
 was. I told all these and other of my friends that I had never 
 known Mr. Parnell to lie to me, and that until the charge should 
 be proved at his trial I would believe implicitly in his innocence. 
 That was a few days after the thing was mentioned in the Press. 
 
 Now, when I find that Mr. Parnell is deaf to all appeals, that 
 he will not retire, no matter what the cost of his stubbornness 
 may be to the cause of Ireland, I am no longer bound to stand 
 by him in any way, and, no matter what the issue may be on 
 Monday next, I have nothing more whatever to do with him as 
 long as he lives." 
 
 Asked with regard to the future leadership of the party, Mr. 
 Davitt said : — 
 
 " No matter what happens on Monday next, there will be, I 
 regret to say, dissension for a time. It is inevitable. My own 
 opinion is that Thomas Sexton will be the future leader. He is 
 the ablest all-round man in the party, and I think he would be 
 the best, as he would undoubtedly be the most brilliant, Parlia- 
 mentary leader. M'Caithy may be the choice of the party, be- 
 cause he is a man with no decided opinions, and would not quar- 
 rel with anybody, and is a man nobody would be jealous of. I 
 think it just possible they may put the leadership in the hands 
 of a committee. That would be my suggestion — say, a com- 
 mittee of M'Carthy, Sexton, Healy, and Dillon." 
 
 Nov. 27. 
 
 b— 2
 
 CHAPTER III. 
 
 MR. PARNELL'S MANIFESTO. 
 
 __ The meeting of the Irish Party stood adjourned from Wednes- 
 
 day, November 27, to Monday, December 1. At a late hour on 
 the night of the intervening Friday Mr. Parnell issued the 
 following manifesto to the Irish people : — 
 
 " To the People or Ireland. 
 " The integrity and independence of a section of -the Irish 
 Parliamentary party having been sapped and destroyed by the 
 wirepullers of the English Liberal party, it has become necessary 
 for me, as the leader of the Irish nation, to take counsel with 
 you, and, having given you the knowledge which is in my 
 possession, to ask your judgment upon a matter which now solely 
 devolves upon you to decide. 
 
 " The letter of Mr. Gladstone to Mr. Morley, written for the 
 purpose of influencing the decision of the Irish party in the 
 choice of their leader, and claiming for the Liberal 'party and 
 their leaders the right of veto upon that choice', is the immediate 
 cause of this address to you, to remind you and your 
 Parliamentary representatives that Ireland considers tho inde- 
 pendence of her party as her only safeguard within the Con- 
 stitution, and above and beyond all •othor considerations what- 
 ever. The threat in that letter, repeated so insolently on many 
 English platforms and in numerous British newspapers, that 
 unless Ireland concedes this right of veto to England she will 
 indefinitely postpone her chances of obtaining Homo Rule, coin- 
 pels me, while not for one moment admitting the slightest proba- 
 bility of such loss, to put before you information which until 
 now, so far as -my colleagues are concerned, has been solely in 
 my possession, and which will enable you to understand the 
 measuro of the loss with which you are threatened unless you 
 consent to throw me to the English wolves now howling for my 
 destruction.
 
 THE HAWARDEN CONFERENCE. 21 
 
 " In November of last year, in response to a repeated and 
 long-standing request, 1 visited Mr. Gladstone at Hawarden, and 
 received the details of the intended proposals of himself and 
 his colleagues of the late Liberal Cabinet with regard to Home 
 Rule, in the event of the next general election favouring the 
 Liberal party. 
 
 " It is unnecessary for me to do more at present than to direct 
 your attention to certain points of these details, which will be 
 generally recognized as embracing elements vital for your infor- 
 mation and the formation of your judgment. These vital points 
 of difficulty may be suitably arranged and considered under the 
 following heads : — 
 
 ' : (1) The retention of the Irish members in the Imperial Par- 
 liament. 
 
 "(2) The settlement of the land or agrarian difficulty in 
 Ireland. 
 
 " (3) The control of the Irish Constabulary. 
 
 "(4) The appointment of the Judiciary (including Judges of 
 the Supreme Court, County Court Judges, and resident magis- 
 trates). 
 
 " Upon the subject of the retention of the Irish members in the 
 Imperial Parliament, Mr. Gladstone told me that the opinion, 
 and the unanimous opinion, of his colleagues and himself, 
 recently arrived at after most mature consideration of alternative 
 proposals, was that, in order to conciliate English public 
 opinion, it would be necessary to reduce the Irish representa- 
 tion from 103 to 32. 
 
 "Upon the settlement of the land it was held that this was 
 one of the questions which must be regarded as questions 
 reserved from the control of the Irish Legislature, but, at the 
 same time, Mr. Gladstone intimated that, while he would renew 
 his attempt to settle the matter by Imperial legislation on the 
 lines of the Land Purchase Bill of 1886, he would not undertake 
 to put any pressure upon his own side or insist upon their 
 adopting his views — in other and shorter words, that the Irish 
 Legislature was not to be given the power of solving the agrarian 
 difficulty, and that the Imperial Parliament would not. 
 
 " With regard to the control of the Irish Constabulary, it was 
 stated by Mr. Gladstone that, having regard to the necessity for 
 conciliating English public opinion, he and his colleagues felt 
 
 Nov. 28.
 
 Nov. 28. 
 
 22 MR. PAENELL'S MANIFESTO. 
 
 that it would bo necessary to leave tliis forco and the appoint- 
 ment of its officers, under the control of tho Imporial authority, 
 for an indefinite period, whilo the funds for its maintenance, 
 paymont, and equipment would ho compulsorily provided out of 
 Irish resources. 
 
 " The period of ten or twelve years was suggested as tho limit 
 of time during which tho appointment of judges, resident magis- 
 trates, &c, should bo retained in tho hands of the Imperial 
 authority. 
 
 " I have now given a short account of what I gathered of Mr. 
 Gladstone's views and those of his colleagues during two hours' 
 conversation at Ha warden — a conversation which, I am bound to 
 admit, was mainly monopolized by Mr. Gladstone — and pass to 
 my own expressions of opinion upon these communications, 
 which ropresont my views then and now. 
 
 " And, first, with regard to the retention of tho Irish members, 
 tho position 1 have always adopted and then represented is 
 that, with the concession of full powers to the Irish Legislature 
 equivalent to thoso enjoyed by a State of tho American Union, 
 tho number and position of the members so retained would be- 
 come a question of Imperial concern, and not of pressing or 
 immediate importance for the interests of Ireland. But that with 
 tho important and all-engrossing subjects of agrarian reform, 
 constabulary control, and judiciary appointments left either 
 under Imperial control or totally unprovided for, it would be tho 
 height of madness for any Irish leader to imitate G rattan's ex- 
 ample and consent to disband the army which had cleared the 
 way to victory. 
 
 " I further undertook to uso every legitimate influence to recon- 
 cile Irish public opinion to a gradual coming into force of the 
 now privileges, and to the postponements necessary for English 
 opinion with regard to constabulary control and judicial appoint- 
 ments, but strongly dissented from tho proposed reduction of 
 members during the interval of probation. I pointed to the ab- 
 sence of any suitable prospect of land settlement by either Parlia- 
 ment, as constituting an overwhelming drag upon the prospects of 
 permanont peace and prosperity in Ireland. 
 
 " At the conclusion of the interview 1 was informed that Mr. 
 Gladstone and all his colleagues wero entirely agreed that, pend- 
 ing tho general oloction, silence should be absolutely preserved
 
 CONVERSATIONS WITH MR. MOKLEV. 23 
 
 with regard to any points of difference on the question of the re- 
 tention of the Irish members. 
 
 " I have dwelt at some length upon these subjects, but not, I 
 think, disproportionately to their importance. Let me say, in 
 addition, that, if and when full powers are conceded to Ireland 
 over her own domestic affairs, the integrity, number, and inde- 
 pendence of the Irish party will be a matter of no importance ; 
 but until this ideal is reached it is your duty and mine to hold 
 fast every safeguard. 
 
 "I need not say that the questions — the vital and important 
 questions — of the retention of the Irish members on the one hand, 
 and the indefinite delay of full powers to the Irish Legislature 
 on the other, gave me great concern. The absence of any pro- 
 vision for the settlement of the agrarian question, of any policy 
 on the part of the Liberal leaders, filled me with concern and ap- 
 prehension. On the introduction of the Land Purchase Bill by 
 the CTOvernment at the commencement of last Session, Mr. 
 Morley communicated with me as to the course to be adopted. 
 Having regard to the avowed absence of any policy on the part of 
 the Liberal leaders and party with regard to the matter of the 
 land, I strongly advised Mr. Morley against any direct challenge 
 of the principle of State-aided land purchase, and, finding that 
 the fears and alarms of the English taxpayer to State aid by the 
 hypothecation of grants for local purposes in Ireland as a counter 
 guarantee had been assuaged, that a hopeless struggle should not 
 be maintained, and that we should direct our sole efforts on the 
 second reading of the Bill to the assertion of the principle of 
 local control. In this I am bound to say Mr. Morley entirely 
 agreed with me, but he was at the same time much hampered — 
 and expressed his sense of his position — in that direction by 
 the attitude of the extreme section of his party, led by Mr. 
 Labouchere. And in a subsequent interview he impressed me 
 with the necessity of meeting the second reading of the Bill with 
 a direct negative, and asked me to undertake the motion. I 
 agreed to this, but only on the condition that I was not to attack 
 the principle of the measure, but to confine myself to a criticism 
 of its details. I think his was false strategy, but it was a 
 strategy adopted out of regard to English prejudices and Radical 
 peculiarities. I did the best that was possible under the circum- 
 stances, and the several days' debate on the second reading con- 
 
 Nov. 28.
 
 Nov. 28. 
 
 21 MR. PARNELL'S MANIFESTO. 
 
 trasts favourably with Mr. Labouchoro's recent and abortive 
 attempt to interposo a direct negative to the first reading of a 
 similar Bill yesterday. 
 
 " Time wont on. The Government allowed their attention to 
 bo distracted from tho quostion of land purchase by the Bill for 
 compensating English publicans, and tho agrarian difficulty in 
 Ireland was again rolegatod to tho futuro of another Session. 
 Just boforo tho commencement of this Session I was again 
 favoured with another interview with Mr. Morley. 1 impressed 
 upon him the policy of tho oblique method of procedure in refer- 
 ence to land purchase, and the necossity and importance of 
 providing for the question of local control, and of a limitation in 
 the application of the funds. He agreed with me, and I offered 
 to move, on tho first reading of the Bill, an amendment in favour 
 of this local control, advising that, if this wero rejected, it might 
 bo left to the Radicals on the second reading to oppose the prin- 
 ciple of the measure. This appeared to bo a proper course, and 1 
 left Mr. Morley under the impression that this would fall to my 
 duty. 
 
 " But in addition he made me a remarkable proposal, referring 
 to tho probable approaching victory of tho Liberal party at the 
 polls. Ho suggested some considerations as to the future of tho 
 Irish party. He asked me whethor I would be willing to assume 
 the offico of Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, or 
 to allow another member of my party to take the position. He 
 also put boforo me the desirability of filling ono of the law offices 
 of the Crown in Ireland by a legal momber of my party. I told 
 him, amazed as I was at the proposal, that 1 could not agree to 
 forfeit in any way tho independence of the party or any of its 
 members ; that tho Irish people had trusted me in tins movement 
 bocause they bolieved that the declaration I had made to them at 
 Cork in 1880 was a true one and represented my convictions, and 
 that I would on no account depart from it. I considered that, 
 after the declarations we have repeatedly made, the proposal of 
 Mr. Morley, that wo should allow oursolves to be absorbed into 
 English politics, was one based upon an entire misconception of 
 our position with regard to the Irish constituencies and of tho 
 pledges which wo had given. 
 
 " In conclusion, ho diroctod my attention to tho Plan of Cam- 
 paign estates. Ho said that it would bo impossible for tho Liberal
 
 CONVERSATIONS WITH MR. MORLEY. 25 
 
 party when they attained power to do anything for those evicted 
 tenants by direct action ; that it would be also impossible for 
 the Irish Parliament, under the powers conferred,, to do anything 
 for them, and, flinging up his hands with a gesture of despair, he 
 exclaimed, ' Having been to Tipperary, I do not know what to 
 propose in regard to the matter.' I told him that this question 
 was a limitod one, and that I did not see that he need allow 
 himself to be hampered by its future consideration ; that, being 
 limited, funds would be available from America and elsewhere 
 for the support of those tenants as long as might be necessary ; 
 that, of course, I understood that it was a difficulty, but that it 
 was a limited one and should not be allowed to interfere with the 
 general interests of the country. 
 
 " I allude to this matter only because within the last few days 
 a strong argument in many minds for my expulsion has been that, 
 unless the Liberals come into power at the next general election, 
 the Plan of Campaign tenants will suffer. As I have shown, the 
 Liberals propose to do nothing for the Plan of Campaign tenants 
 by direct action when they do come into power, but I am entitled 
 to ask that the existence of these tenants, whom I have supported 
 in every way in the past, and whom 1 shall continue to support 
 in the future, shall not constitute a reason for my expulsion from 
 Irish politics. I have repeatedly pledged myself to stand by 
 these evicted tenants and that they shall not be allowed to suffer, 
 and I believe that the Irish people throughout the world will 
 support me in this policy. 
 
 " Sixteen years ago I conceived the idea of an Irish Parlia- 
 mentary party, independent of all English parties. Ten years 
 ago I was elected the leader of an independent Irish Parlia- 
 mentary party. During these ten j^ears that party has remained 
 independent, and because of its independence it has forced upon 
 the English people the necessity of granting Home Ride to Ire- 
 land. I believe that party will obtain Home Rule only prodded it 
 remains independent of any English party. I do not believe that 
 any action of the Irish people in supporting me will endanger the 
 Home Rule cause or postpone the establishment of an Irish Par- 
 liament ; but even if the danger with which we are threatened by 
 the Liberal party of to-day were to be realized, I believe that the 
 Irish peoplo throughout the world would agree with me that a 
 postponement would be preferable to a compromise of our national 
 
 Nov. 28.
 
 Nov. 28. 
 
 Nov. 29. 
 
 26 MR. PARNELL'S MANIFESTO. 
 
 rights by the acceptance of a measure which would not realize the 
 aspirations of our race. 
 
 " I have tho honour to remain your faithful servant, 
 
 " Charles Stewart Parnell." 
 
 REPLY OF MR. GLADSTONE. 
 
 On Saturday Mr. Gladstone issued the following reply : — 
 
 ' ; Sir, — It is no part of my duty to canvass the manifesto of 
 Mr. Parnell, which I have received this morning, and 1 shall not 
 apply to it a single epithet, for I am not his judge in any matter, 
 and I believe myself to have shown in the matter of the Pigott 
 Commission that I had no indisposition to do him justice. But 
 the first portion of the document consists of a recital of proposi- 
 tions stated to have been made by me to him, and of objections 
 entertained by him to those propositions. The Irish as well as 
 the British public has a right to know whether I admit or deny 
 the accuracy of that recital, and in regard to every one of the four 
 points stated by Mr. Parnell I at once deny it. 
 
 " (1) The purport of the conversation was not to make known 
 ' intended proposals.' No single suggestion was offered by me 
 to Mr. Parnell as formal, or as unanimous, or as final. It was a 
 statement perfectly freo, and without prejudice, of points in 
 which either I myself or such of my colleagues as I had been able 
 to consult inclined generally to believe that the plan of 1880 for 
 Home Rule in Ireland might be improved, and as to which I was 
 desirous to learn whether they raised any sorious objection in 
 tho mind of Mr. Parnell. 
 
 " (2) To no one of my suggestions did Mr. Parnell offer serious 
 objection ; much less did he signify in whole or in \ art that they 
 augured tho proposal of 'a measure which would not satisfy the 
 aspirations of the Irish race.' According to his present account, 
 ho received from me in the autumn of 1889 information of vital 
 changes advorso to Ireland in our plans for Home Rule, and kept 
 this information secret until in the end of November, 1890, and in 
 connexion with a totally independent and personal matter, he 
 produces it to the world. 
 
 " (3) I deny, then, that I mado the statements which his 
 momory ascribes to mo, or anything substantially resombling
 
 MR. GLADSTONE'S REPLY. 27 
 
 them, either on the retention of the Irish members, or on the 
 settlement of the land or agrarian difficulty, or on the control of 
 the Constabulary, or on the appointment of the Judiciary. As 
 to land in particular, I am not conscious of having added any- 
 thing to my public declarations, whilo as to County Court 
 Judges and resident magistrates I made no suggestion what- 
 ever. 
 
 " (4) The conversation between us was strictly confidential, 
 and, in my judgment, and, as I understood, in that of Mr. 
 Parnell, to publish even a true account of it is to break the seal 
 of confidence which alone renders political co-operation possible. 
 
 " (5) Every suggestion made by me was from written 
 memoranda. The whole purport of my conference was made 
 known by me in the strictest confidence, when it had just taken 
 place, to my colleagues in the Cabinet of 188G, and I assured 
 them that in regard to none of them had Mr. Parnell raised any 
 serious difficulty whatever. 
 
 " (6) Neither Mr. Parnell nor I myself was bound by this 
 conversation to absolute and final acceptance of the principle 
 then canvassed ; but during the year which has since elapsed I 
 have never received from Mr. Parnell any intimation that he had 
 altered his views regarding any of them. 
 
 " I have now done with the Hawarden conversation, and I 
 conclude with the following simple statement : — 
 
 " 1. I have always held in public as well as in private that 
 the National party of Ireland ought to remain entirely inde- 
 pendent of the Liberal party of Great Britain. 
 
 " 2. It is our duty, and my duty in particular, conformably 
 to the spirit of Grattan and O'Connell, to study all adjustments 
 in the great matter of Home Rule which may tend to draw to our 
 side moderate and equitable opponents ; but for me to propose 
 any measure except such as Ireland could approve on the lines 
 already laid down would be fatuity as regards myself and 
 treachery to the Irish nation, in .whom, even by the side of Mr. 
 Parnell, I may claim to take an interest. 
 
 " I remain, Sir, your very obedient servant, 
 
 " W. E. Gladstone. 
 " London, Nov. 29, 1890." 
 
 Nov. 29.
 
 Nov. 29. 
 
 28 Mil. PAKNELL'S MANIFESTO. 
 
 REPLY OF MR. MORLEY. 
 
 On tho same day Mi'. Morley also replied to Mr. Parnoll as 
 follows : — 
 
 " Sir, — Tho manifesto published by Mr. Parnell this morning 
 contains two or three statements affecting me which I desire, 
 without loss of time, to correct. 
 
 " (1) I made no sort of attempt to fetter Mr. Parnell's action in 
 the Land Purchase Bill. He agreed with me, in all our conversa- 
 tions, that the Dill ought to be opposed as omitting the principle 
 of local control, and for other reasons specified by him in his 
 speech of April 21. The only question was as to the form of the 
 motion for the rejection of tho Bill. I pointed out to him (April 
 14) that, as many Liberals objected to the whole principle of tho 
 Bill, an amendment stating reasons would be less suitable than a 
 motion for rejection simpliciter, and Mr. Parnell assented. Two 
 days later he explained to me his alternative plan for fining down 
 rents. This, at Mr. Parnell's request, 1 immediately communi- 
 cated to Mr. Gladstone, and the same evening I wrote to Mr. 
 Parnell that Mr. Gladstone felt that we could have nothing to 
 say about his plan one way or another, but that, of course, he 
 was perfectly free to propound it on .his own responsibility. So 
 completely did we recognize that our relations with the Irish 
 party were an independent alliance, and not a fusion. 
 
 •' (2) Mr. Parnell imputes to me that, in our conversation of 
 November 10 (five days before the proceedings in Court), 1 made 
 a ' remarkable proposal,' with the object of absorbing the Irish 
 party into English politics by means of office. I made no pro- 
 posal. It was natural that, in a free and confidential discussion 
 of a possible future, I should wish to make sure, for Mr. Glad- 
 stone's information, that Mr. Parnell still held to tho self-denying 
 declaration of 1880. His answer to my inquiry was what I had 
 fully anticipated. 
 
 " (3) Mr. Parnell's account of what passed on the same occa- 
 sion on the subject of the evicted tenants on Campaign estates is 
 wholly incorrect. I observed that some direct action might 
 become necessary, though, of course, I foresaw that there were 
 difficulties in the way of legislation. I never said thai either I 
 or any of my colleagues had formed any conclusion against 
 legislation. I never said or hinted that it would bo impossible
 
 MR. MOKLEY'S REPLY. 29 
 
 for an Irish Parliament to do anything in the matter. I did say 
 that, whether by direct or indirect action, the evicted tenants 
 ought not to be allowed to suffer. As to Tipperary, there is all tho 
 difference between sensible perception of difficulties and the 
 despair which Mr. Parnell ascribes to me. 
 
 " Mr. Gladstone is well able to deal with his own share in tho 
 manifesto, but I am bound to say that on November 10 I was 
 under the most distinct impression that Mr. Farnell did not 
 object to the suggestions thrown out a year ago at Hawarden as 
 subjects for provisional examination, if those suggestions were 
 likely to make a scheme generally acceptable to Great Britain. 
 
 " lam, Sir, yours faithfully, 
 
 " November 29." " John Morley." 
 
 Nov. 29. 
 
 Mr. Gladstone further referred to Mr. Parnell's manifesto in 
 the subjoined letter, written the same day to Mr. Mellor, the 
 Gladstonian candidate for the Bassetlaw Division of Notting- 
 hamshire : — 
 
 " 9, Carlton-gardens, S.W., Nov. 29. 
 " Dear Mr. Mellor, — I learn with gratification that you have 
 undertaken to be the candidate of the Liberal party in the 
 Hundred of Bassetlaw, and I feel assured that all your political 
 friends elsewhere as well as there will consider that in the pre- 
 sent perhaps unparalleled crisis of affairs you take a wise and 
 patriotic decision. The manifesto of Mr. Parnell, to which you 
 will see my reply in a couple of hours, has made still wider the 
 gulf which since the recent disclosures had separated him from 
 the Liberal party, who have now to consider the great and noble 
 cause of justice for Ireland apart from an individual name. But 
 I am glad to think that, so far as appears, there will not be a 
 severance between us and the Nationalist party of Ireland, for 
 the manifesto of Mr. Parnell throws over his Parliamentary col- 
 leagues, acknowledges in them no right or authority, and goes 
 past the constitutional representatives of his country in a fancied 
 appeal to the nation which has chosen them to speak its wants 
 and wishes. 
 
 " Believe me very faithfully yours, 
 
 " W. E. Gladstone."
 
 Nov. 20. 
 
 Nov. 30. 
 
 30 MB. PARNELL'S MANIFESTO. 
 
 VIEWS OF THE AMERICAN DELEGATES. 
 
 November 29th was also the day on which five of the six 
 delegates sent by the Irish party to America first expressed then- 
 decisive condemnation of Mr. Parnell. They did so in the fol- 
 lowing telegram to Mr. Justin McCarthy despatched from India- 
 napolis, Indiana : — 
 
 " We suspended judgment at Mr. Parnell' s request, pending 
 
 the appearance of his manifesto. We have this morning readtho 
 
 manifesto with tho deepest pain. It fully convinces us that Mr. 
 
 Parnell's continued leadership is impossible. We will cable our 
 
 views fully to-morrow, for the information of the Irish party and 
 
 tho Irish people. 
 
 " John Dillon. 
 
 " Wm. O'Brien. 
 
 " T. D. Sullivan. 
 
 " T. P. O'Connor. 
 
 " T. P. Gill." 
 
 MANIFESTO BY THE IRISH DELEGATES IN AMERICA. 
 
 On Sunday, November 30, they followed up this telegram by 
 the accompanying manifesto : — 
 
 " Our sense of the matchless genius displayed by Mr. Parnell 
 as leader of the Irish party, of tho imperishable services which 
 ho has rondered to tho Irish causo, of the courage, integrity, and 
 splendid success with which ho has led our people for ten years, 
 and tho comradeship, personal respect, and affection which for 
 years have bound us to him, have made us suspend to the latest 
 possiblo moment our judgment against his further leadership. 
 The obligation to express that judgment is to all of us the most 
 painful duty of our lives. No earthly consideration could have 
 moved us to our determination except the solemn conviction that 
 we have been driven to choose between Mr. Parnell and tho 
 destruction of our country's cause. So painfully alivo were we 
 to all that might be involved in the loss of such a leader that we 
 eagerly co-operated with our colleagues in every effort to retain 
 his iniluence in our councils. Tho manifesto of Mr. Parnell just 
 issued, however, cuts us off from the last hopes to which we 
 clung. Anxious to avoid a word that might embitter this contro- 
 versy, we shall not dwell on the cruel injustice with which he
 
 VIEWS OF THE AMERICAN DELEC4ATES. 31 
 
 treats the members of the party who followed him with loyalty 
 and affection such as no leader ever experienced before. His recol- 
 lection of their fealty to him in many an hour of trial might well 
 save them from the imputation that even a section of them could 
 have allowed their integrity to be sapped by Liberal wirepullers ; 
 nur would we do more than enter a protest against this violation 
 of all constitutional principle in flouting by anticipation the 
 decision of tho elected representatives of the people from whose 
 votes the chairman of the Parliamentary party receives his 
 authority, and resorting to a vague general appeal over their 
 heads. Considerations like these we should readily have waived 
 in the interest of the national solidarity, but the method in 
 which, ignoring the origin of the present calamitous situation, 
 Mr. Parnell endeavours to fasten the responsibility for it upon 
 Mr. Gladstone and Mr. Morley compels us to dissociate ourselves 
 in the strongest manner from the imputation, which we believe to 
 be reckless and unjust. 
 
 " We view with abhorrence the attacks made upon Mr. Parnell 
 by his public and private enemies under cover of his present 
 difficulty. To attacks of this kind, addressed to a man of proud 
 and strong spirit, we attribute many of the terrible dangers with 
 which Ireland is now threatened, and we fear that they may do 
 further mischief by diverting the minds of many from grave 
 national to purely personal issues in the natural resentment 
 against the ungenerous attack made upon the great leader in the 
 hour of his stress and disaster. But, while making every pos- 
 sible allowance for Mr. Parnell's feeling on this score, we con- 
 sider it very unjust to the English people, and lamentable from 
 the point of view of international good feeling, to describe as 
 " English wolves howling for his destruction " those who have 
 not been able to bring themselves to the same view to which 
 gratitude and the necessity for union impelled Mr. Parnell's own 
 colleagues and countrymen. 
 
 " Mr. Parnell's plea that Mr. Gladstone's letter to Mr. Morley 
 involves a claim to dictate to the Irish party, and thereb} 7 strike 
 at its independence as a strictly Irish national body, is one cal- 
 culated to inspire every Irish national aim. If that plea be not 
 an obvious fallacy, the Irish party having been formed for the 
 purpose of winning Home Rule, any attempt to divert the Irish 
 party from that object in the interest of English parties would be 
 
 Nov. 30.
 
 Nov. 30. 
 
 32 MR. PARNELL'S MANIFESTO. 
 
 an invasion of the independence of the Irish party, and would, 
 we boliovo, be repelled by no one more sternly than our colleagues 
 and ourselves, who are now in opposition to Mr. Parnell. lint 
 the very basis of our independent alliance with the Liberals is 
 
 the adoption by them of the programme for which the Irish party 
 was formed and the recognition of it. It must be the first object 
 of a Liberal -Cabinet to ;realizo that programme. Whatever 
 differences of opinion may exist as to the motive with which Mr. 
 Gladstone's letter was communicated to the public, it was 
 obviously not his hostility to Homo Rule, but his earnest desire 
 to save it from disaster, that prompted him to write the letter. 
 We deplore that the difficulties of Mr. Gladstone's position were 
 not frankly recognised by Mr. Parnell, and that, on the contrary, 
 friendly private communications, obviously made with a view to 
 smoothing the passage of the Home Rule Bill, have been made 
 tho basis for insinuations of treachery to the Irish cause. By 
 his conviction, again and again expressed, Home Rule to be 
 effective must be such a measure as will satisfy the Irish. Mr. 
 Gladstone is bound to a full and ample measure of self-govern- 
 ment -for Ireland. To offer any other scheme would be an act 
 not only of incredible baseness, but of incredible folly, and we 
 emphatically separate ourselves from any such charge against 
 Mr. Gladstone. Wo think it deplorable that Mr. Morley's sug- 
 gestion that somo of the Irish party should co-operate for 
 carrying out the Irish programmo of the Liberal Home Rule 
 party should be so strangely interpreted by Mr. Parnell. 
 Every member of the Irish party will, of course, agree with Mr. 
 Parnell that the acceptance by any Nationalist member of offico 
 from an English Ministry would be a breach of the elementary 
 principles upon which the party was founded ; but nobody know- 
 ing Mr. Morley's character could doubt that the suggestion was 
 made in the honest belief that a Liberal Ministry would be helped 
 in tho difficult work of carrying through tho details of the Home 
 Rule Bill by co-operation with Irish colleagues, and that it was 
 not an insidious attempt on the integrity and independence of the 
 Irish party. We have now to confront the statement that Mr. 
 Parnell's leadership opens an impassable gulf between the repre- 
 sentatives of Ireland and tho Liberal party, who faithfully ob- 
 served their part of their side of tho agreements as to the national 
 claims of Ireland ; and tho situation is aggravated by the de-
 
 VIEWS OF THE AMEKICAN DELEGATES. 33 
 
 plorable expressions of ill-will towards the British people, who 
 again and again during the past five years manifested their 
 determination to do justice to Ireland, and who have, by their 
 votes, paralyzed the arm of coercion. In deliberately bringing 
 things to this position Mr. Parnell has entered upon a rash and 
 fatal path, upon which every consideration for Ireland's safety, as 
 well as our personal honour, forbid us absolutely to follow him. 
 " In the future of the party thus isolated and discredited we 
 cannot imagine how any Irishman can see anything but destruction 
 to the hopes of self-government, happiness, and peace, which but 
 a few weeks ago were on the point of being realized for our people, 
 so tried by many years of sacrifice and suffering. What Mr. 
 Parnell asks us to do, stripped of all side issues, is to sacrifice 
 all hopes of an early settlement of the Irish struggle to his 
 resolve to maintain his personal position. We are driven to choose 
 between the leader and the cause, and in that sad choice we 
 cannot hesitate. We lay these views respectfully before all our 
 colleagues of the Irish Parliamentary party, in the earnest belief 
 that a decisive vote on their part will deliver Ireland from tho 
 fearful anxiety that now overhangs her people. We are convinced 
 that a calm but resolute course of action on our part in this cruel 
 emergency will redound to the advantage of our cause by furnish- 
 ing conclusive testimony of the capacity of the party and people 
 for self-government. 
 
 " We cannot relinquish the hope that, in face of such decisive 
 action by the elective representatives of the Irish people, Mr. 
 Parnell 's sense of patriotism will withhold him from plunging 
 Ireland into those horrors of dissension which so often already in 
 her tragic and unhappy history have robbed her of liberty at the 
 moment when it was within her grasp, and save him from undoing 
 in one passionate hour the results of all his incomparable services 
 to our country. " John Dillon. 
 
 " William O'Brien. 
 
 " T. P. O'CONNOR. 
 
 " T. D. Sullivan. 
 
 " T. P. Gill." 
 The sixth delegate, Mr. T. Harrington, who has had sole charge 
 of the National League organization as secretary from its founda- 
 tion in 1882, did not sign this message, and has consistently 
 given Mr. Parnell his support. 
 
 Nov. 30.
 
 CHAPTER IV. 
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 MEETINGS AND PROCEEDINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 MEETING OF THE IRISH PARTY— THIRD DAY. 
 
 Monday, December 1, was the date fixed for the resumed meet- 
 ing of the Irish party. At half-past 10 o'clock Mr. Parnell hold 
 a private meeting of his supporters at the Westminster Palace 
 Hotel. He was in excellent spirits, and made no secret of tho 
 fact that he had not altered his determination not to relinquish 
 the leadership of the party voluntarily. 
 
 Mr. Parnell and his secretary were joined by Mr. Edward 
 Harrington, Mr, Joseph Nolan, Mr. John Redmond, Mr. W. Red- 
 mond, Mr. R. Power, Mr. E. Sheil, and Mr. J. J. O'Kelly. Tho 
 meeting lasted for over an hour. In reply to tho representative 
 of an Irish newspaper, who spoke to him as ho was leaving the 
 hotel, Mr. Parnell said, " Tell them I will fight to the end." 
 Mr. Parnell with his supporters then walked across to the House 
 of Commons. As they crossed to the House, Mr. ParnelPs sup- 
 porters passed several of thoir dissentient colleagues hurrying to 
 tho meeting, ono of them being Mr. T. M. Healy, who drove up 
 looking much flushed and excited, and did not appear to notice 
 his former colleagues. 
 
 Mr. Parnell, accompanied by Mr. Henry Campbell, arrived at a 
 quarter to 12, and at once went to Committee Room JSo. 15. Mr. 
 Parnell took the chair at half-past 12. There were then 74 mem- 
 bers present. Messrs. Carew, Gilhooly, and Lalor were away 
 through illness. The absentees also included tho American dele- 
 gates, tho 0' Gorman Mahon, Mr. P. O'Brien, who was undergo- 
 ing a sentence of imprisonment, and Mr. Leahy. Tho follow- 
 ing official account of tho proceedings was supplied for publica- 
 tion, through special reporters of tho Freeman's Journal, who 
 were admitted to tho meeting.
 
 DEBATE OF DECEMBER 1. 35 
 
 The following is a complete list of those who attended : — 
 Messrs. W. Abraham, J. Barry, A. Blane, G. Byrne, H. Camp- 
 bell, P. Chance, J. J. Clancy, Dr. Commins, T. J. Condon, M. 
 Conway, W. Corbet, J. Cox, D. Crilly, J. Dalton, J. Deasy, T. 
 Dickson, Sir T. Esmonde, J. Finucane, Dr. Fitzgerald, J. C. 
 Flynn, P. J. Foley, Dr. Fox, E. Harrington, H. J. Harrison, 
 L. P. Hayden, M. Healy, T. Healy, J. Jordan, Dr. Kenny, 
 M. J. Kenny, D. Kilbride, E. Knox, W. J. Lane, E. Leamy, M. 
 M'Oartan, J. M'Carthy, J. H. M'Carthy, P. M'Donald, W. A. 
 Macdonald, Sir J. M'Kenna, J. G. Swift MaeNeill, R. Maguire, 
 Pierce Mahony, B. Molloy, J. Morrogh, W. Murphy, Col. JNolan, 
 J. Nolan, J. F. X. O'Brien, P. J. O'Brien, A. O'Connor, J. 
 O'Connor, T. O'Hanlon, F. O'Keeffe, J. O'Kelly, J. Pinkerton, 
 P. J. Power, R. Power, T. Quinn, J. Redmond, W. Redmond, 
 W. Reynolds, J. Roche, T. Sexton, J. D. Slieehan, D. Sheehy, 
 E. Sheil, J. Stack, Donal Sullivan, Dr. Tanner, J. Tuite, and 
 A. Webb. 
 
 Some time was occupied at the outset by the reading of cor- 
 respondence bearing on the issue raised. 
 
 Messrs. R. Lalor and Leahy wrote announcing their determina- 
 tion to support Mr. Parnell. There was also a large batch of 
 telegrams from various league branches in Ireland and Great 
 Britain, Irish Town Commissioners, and Boards of Guardians, 
 addressed to Mr. Parnell, and read to the meeting by Mr. Camp- 
 bell. The substance of these communications was an expression of 
 unabated confidence in the member for Cork as leader of the Irish 
 Nationalist party. From Rhode Island and Philadelphia there 
 were also telegrams couched in such terms as " Meeting repre- 
 senting 60,000 supports your leadership," and "Overwhelmingly 
 for you." 
 
 As president of the party, Mr. Parnell took the chair, and at 
 the conclusion of the preliminary proceedings, 
 
 Mr. Sexton said, — Mr. Parnell, I wish to submit a cpuestion 
 to the chair concerning a matter of procedure. Sir, at the open- 
 ing of the meeting to-day, and before the admission of the Press, 
 you asked the secretary to read to the meeting a number of tele- 
 grams which had been received, and amongst them was a tele- 
 gram from the delegates in America communicating in very brief 
 terms their views, and promising.a further communication for the 
 guidance of the party. Since then a further telegram from the 
 
 c— 2 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 36 MEETINGS OF THE IkISH PARTY. 
 
 American delegates has appeared in the Press, addressed to Mr. 
 Justin McCarthy, and I am informed by him that, not having 
 been at his home since 10 o'clock this morning, lie has not re- 
 ceived the original, which is probably lying there. Sir, unless 
 this further telegram is nowread to the members it may not come 
 to their knowledge upon this supreme question before the vote is 
 taken, and therefore I submit that this further telegram, further 
 explaining and amplifying their views, should be read. 
 
 Mi;, PABNELL. — Whenever it is put into my hands I will 
 read it. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — The original 1 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Yes. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — But we have not the original. It appears in the 
 newspapers. 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— Has Mr. M'Carthy verified it I 
 
 Mr. M'Carthy.— JNo. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — If you cannot find the original I will read the 
 newspaper copy. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — I move that it be road now quantum valeat. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I rule that a newspaper paragraph should 
 not be read, as having no bearing on our proceedings, but I do 
 not want to put you to any disadvantage. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — It is not a question of disadvantage. 
 
 Mr. Parnell (to Mr. Campbell). — Will you now continuo to 
 read the telegrams ? 
 
 Mr. Campbell then continued to read the telegrams, those 
 only being excluded which came from private individuals. 
 
 The Chathman said, — Now, Dr. Tanner, it is your request to 
 address the chair. 
 
 Dr. Tanner. — Before I move any resolution I should like to 
 know what is the proposition before the meeting. 
 
 The Chairman. — The proposition before tho last meeting was, 
 " That a full meeting of this party be held on Friday to give Mr. 
 Parnell an opportunity to reconsider his position," whereujwn 
 that debate was adjourned until Monday, and the question now is, 
 " That a full meeting of the party be hold on Friday, to give Mr. 
 Parnell an opportunity to reconsider his position." 
 
 Mr. Healy. — That was last Friday. 
 
 The Chairman. — No ! it is clearly next Friday. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — Have all the telegrams been read ?
 
 DEBATE OF DECEMBER 1— PROCEDURE. 37 
 
 The Chairman. — If there are any more they must be read at 
 the end of the meeting. An exception, of course, will be made in 
 favour of the communication from the Irish delegates when it 
 arrives. 
 
 Mk. Sexton. — I merely ask because I have had a telegram from 
 the Bishop of Sligo, and I want it to be supposed that it was not 
 in any way slighted. 
 
 The Chairman. — Of course, no. 
 
 Dr. Tanner. — 1 would respectfully urge upon you, Sir, that 
 the resolution which was placed before the meeting on last 
 Friday had reference to the following Friday. But if it has re- 
 ference to Friday week I presume I cannot speak to a resolution 
 which deals with a past date. 
 
 The Chairman. — This resolution was proposed and seconded 
 on Tuesday. The adjournment of its consideration was to the 
 following Friday. The resolution was duly proposed and 
 seconded, and the party arrived at a unanimous resolution to 
 adjourn the consideration of this resolution until Monday. 
 Therefore the resolution is still before the chair, and I rule that it 
 is still before the chair, and will have to be disposed of before you 
 go on with anything else. 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy. — I would suggest that the better course for 
 those who think that a technical objection should not stand in 
 the way would be that we should vote against the resolution, and 
 allow it to be put at once. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 The Chairman. — You are perfectly willing to vote against your 
 own resolution. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — I suppose it will be perfectly competent for any 
 member to move an amendment ? 
 
 The Chairman. — Provided it is in order. 
 
 Colonel Nolan. — 1 have also an amendment to propose, but 
 as I cannot move an amendment upon an amendment, I presume 
 I would not be in order. Before any action is taken on this reso- 
 lution, I hope, Mr. Chairman, you will receive other amendments. 
 
 Mr. Abraham. — Would I be in order in moving this resolu- 
 tion ? — " That, acting upon an imperative sense of our duty to 
 our country, we the members of the Irish party do declare that 
 Mr. Parnell's tenure of the chairmanship of this party is hereby 
 terminated," 
 
 The Chairman.— I decide that that is not an amendment. 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dec. l. 
 
 38 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Mu. JonN Barry. — Tt soems to mo wo can go on to some prac- 
 tical stop by my withdrawing my resolution, and for theso 
 reasons. My resolution was for a full mooting of the party. 
 That is mot by tho full mooting of the party assembled here 
 now, and the second roason is that tho resolution, having asked 
 that yon should get more time to reconsider your position 
 
 Tho Chairman. — Are you speaking now on a point of order or 
 asking for leave that you should be permitted to withdraw your 
 resolution 1 Because you must limit yourself. If you wish to 
 withdraw it, you must ask the leave of the party. You will not 
 be allowed to make a second speech. 
 
 Mu. Barry. — All that I am asking for is to make a singlo word 
 of explanation in asking permission to withdraw my resolution. 
 
 The Chairman. — You are perfectly entitled to explain it. I 
 only wish to draw your attention as to the necessity for some 
 limitation as to the naturo and extent of your speech. 
 
 Mr. Barry. — My second reason, as stated in my resolution, 
 that time bo given to Mr. Parnoll to reconsider his position, and 
 that he has reconsidered his position by issuing his mani- 
 festo 
 
 Tho Chairman. —You cannot go into the question of the mani- 
 festo, bocauso if you do 1 shall have to go into a groat many 
 other questions, and we will be kept here a long time. 
 
 Mr. Barry. — I now wish to withdraw my resolution. 
 
 Tho Chairman. — With regard to the request that this resolu- 
 tion bo permitted to bo withdrawn, I shall require and decido 
 that it cannot be withdrawn without unanimous consent of 
 the meeting. ("Hear, hear," and cries of "Oh.") I am fol- 
 lowing the precedent of tho House of Commons, which has 
 always been carried out at our meetings. (Hoar, hear.) 
 
 Dr. Tanner.— Might I ask to have the resolution read once 
 more? (Cries of "Oh.") 
 
 Tho Chairman. — Como here and read it yourself if you like. 
 
 Mr. Barry. — I wish to know — are tho standing ordors of tho 
 House of Commons to be carriod out hero ? 
 
 The Chairman. — Those rules havo always regulated the pro- 
 ceedings at the meetings of our party, and if you wish to form 
 special rules and regulations you will havo to do so. (Hear, 
 hoar.) 
 
 Mi;. A. O'Connor.— It is desirable, at any rate, that we should
 
 DEBATE OF DECEMBER 1— PROCEDURE. 39 
 
 come to some amicable, some quiet, and some decisive decision. 
 (Hear, hear.) The motion now before the chair is that a meeting 
 be held on a certain Friday in order to enable you, Mr. Parnell, 
 to reconsider your position. 
 
 The Chairman. — What -question are you addressing yourself 
 to now ? 
 
 Mit. A. O'Connor. — To the question of the admissibility of the 
 amendment. 
 
 The Chairman. — There is no such question before me at 
 present. The question is that the withdrawal of this resolution 
 be permitted. It can only be withdrawn by the unanimous per- 
 mission of the meeting 
 
 Mr. A. O'Connor. — I would ask, as a matter of order, whether 
 it is not competent for a member to move, as an amendment, that 
 the resolution which is so retained for the meeting 
 
 The Chairman. — You can only .move an amendment to this 
 resolution when the motion for leave to withdraw it has been 
 withdrawn. 
 
 Mr. A. O'Connor. — I thought that leave to withdraw it had 
 been refused. 
 
 The Chairman. — I have not so ruled. I have ruled it must 
 be with the unanimous decision of the meeting. That ques- 
 tion has not been put. The only question that can be put is 
 whether it is your pleasure that the resolution be withdrawn, 
 and there can be no further debate until that question is decided. 
 I now put it to the meeting — Is it your pleasure that the resolu- 
 tion be withdrawn ? (Loud cries of " Hear, hear," and " No, 
 no.") 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — Divide. 
 
 The Chairman. — There can be no division on such a question. 
 Mr. Sexton knows that perfectly well. 
 
 Mr. A. O'Connor. — I wish to ask a question on a point of 
 order. Now that we have the resolution retained, is it not com- 
 petent for any member to move an amendment to the resolution 
 embodying any proposition which relates to the subject matter of 
 that resolution 1 
 
 The Chairman. — If you will show me your amendment I will 
 tell you whether it is in order or not. 
 
 Colonel Nolan. — I claim priority for my amendment. 
 (" Hear, hear," and " No, no.") 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 40 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Mi:. Abraham. — Mr. Chairman, ['beg to hand you my amend- 
 ment. 
 
 Colonel Nolan. — And I bog to hand you my amendment also. 
 
 M a. Condon. — I beg leave to second Mr. Abraham's amendment. 
 
 Colonel Nolan.— On a point of order, I claim that my amend- 
 ment shall come first. My amondment is a hostile one and one 
 of a character that is usually received first. 
 
 Mit. T. M. Healy. — That is not a point of order. 
 
 Mil. A. O'Connok. — 1 submit that the motion— the terms of 
 which I cannot exactly remember — handed in by Mr. Abraham is 
 porfectly portinont to tho subject matter of the original resolution, 
 and in no way infringing any of the rules of the House of 
 Commons as bearing upon the quostion of tho amendment. I 
 submit, Sir, that Mr. Abraham's amendment is perfectly in order. 
 
 Tho Chairman. — I decide that Mr. Abraham's amendment is 
 entirely out of order ("Hear, hoar," and cries of " Oh ")— that 
 it is in direct contradiction to the amondment itself. Colonel 
 Nolan's amendment is perfectly in order. 
 
 At this announcement thero was somo applause, followod by an 
 outburst of laughter. 
 
 The Chairman (warmly). — I hope we shall avoid those ex- 
 pressions of opinion amongst oursolvcs, and I believe if we do 
 not that thero is sufficient public spirit in this meeting and 
 sufficient determination amongst the members at this meeting 
 to support tho chair in preserving order. (Loud cheers.) 
 
 Mr. A. O'Connor. — On a point of order, will you hoar me? 
 The amondment proposed a certain adjournment, to enable you, 
 Sir, to consider your position as leader of the party. The amend- 
 ment is perfectly absurd in its terms, no doubt, but I would sub- 
 mit there is nothing in it which prevents its boing accepted as a 
 perfectly admissible amendment. 
 
 Tho Chairman. — I have carefully oxamined your amendment, 
 and I can only give my judgment. No chairman of any public 
 meeting would accept this as an amendment. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mb. T. M. Healy.— Divide, divide. 
 
 The Chairman. — You cannot divide on a point of order. 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy. — I presume I shall bo allowed an expression 
 of opinion here as well as in the House of Commons. 
 
 Tho Chairman. — Probably a much fuller expression of opinion. 
 ( Eear, hear.)
 
 DEBATE OF DECEMBER 1— PROCEDURE. 41 
 
 Dr. Tanner. — I wish, Sir, to make a few observations. I wish 
 to speak before you, Sir, and my colleagues, as I am always pre- 
 pared to speak before you and the country, and I say with the 
 greatest respect, with profoundest respect and regret, that you, 
 Sir, as a leader of our party, as a gentleman that I always 
 honoured and respected during my connexion with politics — I was 
 not a politician bred and born (" Hear, hear," and laughter) — I 
 wish to say that in addressing the meeting at the present time 
 my feelings will perhaps interrupt my utterances. I say it with 
 profoundest regret, that last Tuesday, when you, Sir, were re- 
 elected as our leader during the present Session, had I not been 
 misled by reports that apparently came from an authoritative 
 source, that you were going to resign the chair after being voted to 
 it as a mark of our respect — had I not believed that you would 
 have withdrawn after the vote of confidence was passed in you 
 for all your past services — I should have felt it my duty to have 
 voted against you as leader of the party during the present 
 Session. (Hear, hear.) I wish it to be perfectly understood, 
 notably now that the Press is present, that! at any rate voted for 
 your continued leadership, hoping that you would not have con- 
 tinued, but would have accepted the position. I regret to have to 
 say now — and it is one of the most painful duties of my life to 
 have to say — I must unhesitatingly and unflinchingly vote 
 against your continued leadership, and may God protect the 
 right. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy. — I wish to give my reasons for voting against 
 the resolution of my friend Mr. Barry. Chronologically, I believe 
 that resolution is now an absurdity. (Hear, hear.) That resolu- 
 tion was moved upon Wednesday last, requesting you by the 
 Friday following — meaning last Friday — requesting that a meet- 
 ing be called for that day, and that you were to have an oppor- 
 tunity in the interval of reconsidering your position. Upon that, 
 as I understand, not having been able to be present at either 
 Tuesday's or Wednesday's meeting, it was considered advisable 
 by some of the more immediate supporters of the chair to require 
 an adjournment until Monday, and that request, being a most 
 rational and proper one, was unanimously agreed to by the meet- 
 ing. Therefore, without wishing for one moment to quarrel with 
 the ruling of the chair, 1 say that to my mind the resolution has 
 been placed out of date by the acceptance of the subsequent 
 
 Deo. 1.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 42 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY . 
 
 amendment, carrying the adjournment over the further date 
 appointed for consideration in the original resolution. 
 
 The Chairman. — You will see, Mr. Healy, that no casting 
 back can now be allowed. You are in reality combating the deci- 
 sion of the chair, and though your argument might havo been rele- 
 vant to the question at the time, it is not relevant to tho question 
 before tho chair now. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mk. T. M. Healy. — 1 hope that I may be allowed to give the 
 reasons which occur to me for asking those who would have sup- 
 ported Mr. Barry on Wednesday last to vote against him now. 
 However, I bow to your ruling, Sir, and the further point I wish 
 to put is this. I am debarred by the ruling that has just been 
 given from giving the real reasons that influence my judgment. 
 Wo have now arrived at half-past 2, after having sat hero since 
 12 o'clock, with a considerable adjournment for luncheon. I con- 
 sider, if technique or any other consideration be allowed to be inter- 
 posed between the judgment of this meeting and its decision, 
 unfortunate consequences might arise. And while everybody 
 would be naturally anxious, upon the first resolution being put 
 from the chair, to express their opinions, in the sense that Dr. 
 Tanner has done or otherwise, yet at the samo time I think it 
 will be in accordance with good policy if those who take the view 
 that 1 have had the honour to express would allow that resolution 
 to bo put from the chair as speedily as possible, and vote against 
 it, and then consider Mr. Abraham's resolution- as the one 
 upon which they shall desire to express their opinions. (Hear, 
 hear.) 
 
 Ma. Richard Power. — Which amendment comes first, Mr. 
 Abraham's or Colonel Nolan's ? 
 
 The Chairman. — Clearly Colonel Nolan's comes first. 
 
 Mr. Sheehy.— Might 1 ask, Mr. Chairman, what is tho amend- 
 ment ? 
 
 The Chairman (reading). — " That the question touching the 
 chairmanship of the Irish Parliamentary party be postponed 
 until members have had an .opportunity of personally ascertain- 
 ing tho views of their constituents and until the party can meet 
 in Dublin." (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Colonel Nolan. — That amendment, T may say, was drawn 
 up without consultation with any one. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. M. Healy. — On a point of order I submit that Colonel
 
 DEBATE OF DEC. 1— COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT. 43 
 
 Nolan, having already spoken on the resolution, cannot speak 
 again. (Cries of " Oh !") 
 
 The Chairman. — As the Press are here now, we cannot have 
 the same rules as regulated our private meetings. I decide now 
 that it will be open to every member of the party to speak again. 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Colonel Nolan. — Mr. Chairman, 1 consider that my resolu- 
 tion is one of first-rate importance, and that it is really the most 
 important question before this meeting, whether we shall decide 
 exclusively on our own initiative or whether we shall do so on this 
 solemn occasion after having consulted our constituents (cheers), 
 and possibly other people who have got the right to speak on the 
 matter. I should greatly deplore any serious division in this 
 party. (Cheers.) 1 sincerely hope and trust that this discussion 
 will be conducted in public as it has been conducted hitherto, 
 without one word of acrimony being dropped from the lips of any 
 member, which could embitter the situation, and we all know that 
 embittering the situation would eventually weaken the Irish party 
 and the Irish representation, and weaken the whole Liberal cause 
 and the prospects of Home Rule. (Cheers.) I hope we shall 
 argue this debate in public as we have already done in private, in 
 such a fashion that we may all eventually be able to agree and 
 again work together as we have done before for the cause of 
 Ireland. (Cheers.) I believe my amendment tends entirely in 
 that direction. I believe, now that we are after the first rush, 
 when we were under the cynosure of the eyes of the political 
 world, when we now have time to hear what our constituents have 
 to say (cheers), to hear their views, that if my amendment is 
 adopted we shall have no division at all. You may ask me, if 
 my amendment is carried, how long would it take to ascertain the 
 views of our constituents i I can only answer by telling you 
 what the minimum time would be and what the maximum time 
 would be. The minimum time, I should say, wculd be eight 
 days, and the maximum time would - be about three weeks. That 
 would enable us to discuss this matter fully and thoroughly, 
 enlightened by the opinions of all parties in Ireland. I shall 
 exclude no party, and I believe we shall all agree. That is the 
 first reason I give. You may say that what I suggest is a 
 dangerous precedent, and that this party cannot always be asking 
 for the advice of their constituents. I quite admit that, It may 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 11 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 bo said wo arc running tho risk of undoing ten or 11 years of hard 
 work ; we do not know how we may unsettle the rotes of the Irish 
 voters in England. If we settle this matter to-day, we do not 
 know how it will be received in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) Every 
 one who has spoken on this subject has been obliged to acknow- 
 ledge the surpassing services of Mr. Parnell. Every member also 
 has spoken with respect of Mr. Gladstone. On reading the 
 papers on Tuesday 1 find thoy tried to put one of these men 
 against tho other. What could be more foolish ? When we go to 
 Ireland tilings will be put in a different way. Our constituents 
 will use persuasion with us and will try to make us unanimous 
 on this point. I now come to the second part of the resolution. 
 1 do not think it matters very much whether we meet in Dublin 
 or in London to decide the matter, but at tho same time I think, 
 in a matter affecting Home Rule so much, wo ought to pay some 
 tribute to our own capital. (Hear, hoar.) There is no doubt that 
 when wo meet here we are influenced by surroundings. (Hear, 
 hear.) I say the people at home, while we moot here, will not 
 expect the same independence from us as if we met in Dublin 
 and chose our chairman in Dublin. 1 do not think we should be 
 open to the accusation of having taken a panic vote, or that we 
 were influenced by the greatest statesman of modern times. If 
 we aro to throw over Mr. Parnell, I say we should first go to our 
 constituents (cheers), and bo in the position as if we had an Irish 
 plebiscite. I hope there will be no argument used about the delay 
 that may tako place, such as that we have been annoying the 
 Liberal party. I believe that our attitude towards the Liberal 
 paity will not be changed during the interval, while we will have 
 the unquestionable advantage of deciding for the whole of Ireland, 
 without there being any suspicion of pros sure being brought to 
 bear upon us as to what we ought to do in this supreme crisis. 
 (Cheers.) I beg to move my amendment. 
 
 Sir Joseph M'Kenna seconded tho amendment. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — Mr. Parnell, Sir, I deeply regret that I find it 
 impossible to vote for Colonel Nolan's amendment. I am extremely 
 anxious to treat this grave case with every consideration (hear, 
 hear), and to allow any time that may bo judged necessary for 
 arriving at a just decision. But according to my judgment tho 
 case is urgent, and it admits of no delay. (Hear, hear.) I felt 
 on Wednesday last that in adjourning until Monday we wore
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. SEXTON. 45 
 
 incurring a serious risk, and I submit to this meeting that, from 
 the reports which we receive from day to day, the refusals of 
 Liberal members, of English Liberal members, to meet their con- 
 stituents, the determination of Liberal candidates to retire from 
 the field, and the reports from Liberal agents as a result of their 
 investigations in all parts of the country, if we postpone this 
 question till the end of the present Session, or for a month, or 
 even for a week, we may substantially be guilty of one of the most 
 terribly criminal acts that ever were committed by a body of public 
 men in the course of the history of the world, and that act would 
 be the breaking up of an alliance in which you have led the people 
 to hope, the breaking up of an alliance in which they have fondly 
 hoped for the last four years, of an alliance built up by the 
 unimaginable labours and pains of the past 11 years, an alliance 
 between the people of Ireland and the only friends from whom we 
 have any reasonable hope — I mean the Liberal democracy of Great 
 Britain — an alliance firm, affectionate, progressive, and destined, 
 tried no matter by what test, to succeed and to endure. (Cheers.) 
 I cannot, for one, accept the risk of breaking up the alliance, and 
 it is as well to secure it as to fulfil another duty ; and it is to 
 relieve this country and our own from the torture of anxiety and 
 suspense (hear, hear) that I plead urgency for the grave case now 
 before us. (Hear, hear.) I share in the hope of Colonel Nolan 
 that passion will be absent fiom our debate. (Hear, hear.) The 
 case is not one for passionate declamation. (Cheers.) We are a 
 body of representative men who are trained to judge of the bear- 
 ings of public questions. The case is one for the calm and firm 
 exercise of an independent judgment. We have laboured together 
 hard and long in the sacred cause of Ireland, and it would cause 
 me deep and lasting grief if anything avoidable were said 
 to-day to render it impossible for us to labour together in the 
 good cause hereafter. (Cheers.) It is needless for Colonel Nolan 
 and for any man to call to my mind the services of Mr. Parnell 
 to Ireland. I am well aware of them ; I have good cause to know 
 them. (Hear, hear.) I stood beside him in the original struggle 
 for the formation of his party ; I stood beside him in the State 
 trial of 1880 ; I shared his imprisonment in Kilmainham ; I am 
 one of those who have stood immediately by his side during the 
 past 11 years in the House of Commons ; I have humbly shared 
 his labours. (Hear, hear.) I have done my best to render them 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 46 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 effectual, as Mr. Pamell well knows, and 1 say of myself, what 
 is also true of my colleagues here — that it is unnecessary for any 
 Irishman to remind us now or hereafter of the labours and 
 tho services that were our glory and our pride. (Cheers.) 
 Nothing that can happen here can obliterate tho services 
 of Mr. Parnoll from tho heart of tho country or from the history 
 of his time. (Hear, hear.) But gentleman, no service by any 
 leader entitles him to ruin his cause (cheers), and, indeed, 
 the greater the services that he has rendered, the greater the 
 capacity and the genius that he has shown, the greater cause have 
 we and the greater right to look to him and to expect him, for 
 such time as may be needed, to sacrifice his personal feeling, 
 and even some part of his personal prestige, for the supreme 
 interest of his country. (Cheers.) I have spoken of the neces- 
 sity of guarding by prompt action — action, prompt, docided, and 
 unmistakable — the alliance between Ireland and the Liberal 
 party, which is our only hope. What will become of that allianco 
 if we delay ? I have it on the best authority that the Irish Press 
 Agency, our propagandist department in this country, has ceased 
 to have any useful existence. Its literature is not boing sought 
 for ; its speakers are no longer wanted ; and if the present un- 
 certainty is allowed to remain and the growing passion to develop, 
 is not that ono sign sufficient token that before wo have time to 
 meet in Dublin and elsowhero the alliance, which has already 
 been strained to the point of sundering by the excitement caused 
 by Mr. Gladstone's declaration, may be broken off, and broken off 
 for ever 1 (Hear, hear.) I do not dwell upon the point that we 
 ought to meet in Dublin. I wish we had oftener met in Dublin. 
 (Loud cheers.) It is no fault of mine, no fault of my friends that 
 we have not ; and if a meeting had been called in Dublin at tho 
 opening of every Session I should have been ono of thoso who 
 would havo been found present. (Hear, hear.) It has been sug- 
 gested to us that wo ought to consult our constituents. (Hear, 
 hoar.) I deny that this question is one upon which we are bound 
 to resort to an appeal to tho country. (Hear, hear.) We are en- 
 gaged upon a quostion of tho organization of our part}'. We are 
 engaged upon a question of the tenure of the chair, and is it to be 
 argued that upon such a question, upon a question of the removal 
 or appointment of chairman — which is a party emergency such as 
 it may easily be supposed might arise for decision any day, and
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT-MR. SEXTON. 47 
 
 which would be decided in an instant — that wo aro bound to resort 
 to an appeal to the country ? I submit to you that in this grave 
 matter, as in every other case of public duty, we are bound first 
 to act upon our judgment, and then to account to our consti- 
 tuents. (Hear, hear.) The dictate of my judgment is quite clear ; 
 even my constituents could not alter it. (Hear, hear.) There is 
 no power on earth that could alter it, for it is the fiat of my con- 
 science. (Hear, hear.) But so far as concerns my constituents, 
 I have not the slightest reason to doubt that they concur with me. 
 They are aware of my intention ; they have had ample notice of 
 it ; no word has reached me to dissuade me from my course. I 
 am entitled to assume their assent, and I do most absolutely 
 assume it. (Hear, hear.) I am under no need to resort to them 
 or consult them, but if hereafter it should appear that my action 
 to-day is unsatisfactory to them, I shall not wait to be called upon 
 to retire, but I shall facilitate them by instantly restoring to their 
 hands the public trust I have kept unstained. (Cheers.) So much 
 upon the question of appeal. I find an urgent case before me ; 
 I claim to act on my conscience. I say there is no human 
 power, whatever it be, that could alter my decision. If my con- 
 stituents support me I shall be proud of their confidence. If they 
 dissent from me I shall accept the penalty. (Hoar, hear.) There 
 is excellent reason to believe that the unfortunate conjuncture of 
 affairs that has arisen invites the Government that is now oppres- 
 sing Ireland to resort to dissolution. How if a dissolution finds 
 us with the question undetermined (cheers), with England excited, 
 with large classes of persons enraged by the present condition of 
 aifairs, with our own country torn into wars and factions 1 We 
 should be thrown at the mercy of the enemy. (Cheers and counter- 
 cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — At the mercy of the unrivalled coercionist of 
 the Irish race. (Cheers and counter-cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — And I therefore regard it as a main point of 
 political policy, and a necessary matter of prudence, that, before 
 a Tory Government have an opportunity of resorting to a dissolu- 
 tion, this unfortunate and lamentable question which engages us 
 to-day shall be determined one way or the other. (Hear, hear.) 
 An intolerable evil would be suspense, a supreme danger would 
 be lack of determination and decision. I have one other reason, 
 gentlemen, for claiming at your hands, as a matter of patriotic 
 
 Dec. 1,
 
 Dkc. 1. 
 
 48 MEETINGS OF THE TKISTI PARTY. 
 
 duty, an immediate decision upon this question. Whilst for tho 
 sake of my country I hope that the docision will call upon Mr. 
 Parnoll to retire, yet if it should happen that tho decision should 
 be the other way, I for my part will bo happy to quit public life 
 with a grateful sense of tho services that he has rendered, and 
 blot out of my mind for the rest of my life any thought of bitter- 
 ness and wish him success in the rest of his career. (Cheers.) 
 But there is one other reason for emergency which is demanded 
 by self-respect. Mr. Parnoll in his manifesto has declared of 
 tho men who besought him to retire that their integrity and inde- 
 pendence have been sapped and destroyed by the wirepullers of 
 the Liberal party. I do not ask him if ho believes it. 
 
 Mr. W. A. Maodonald. — I believe it. 
 
 Mr. Sexton (continuing). — I ask Mr. Parnoll if he believes any 
 of his supporters gieos credit to that statement — I ask him if he 
 bolievos that Ireland will believe it? (Cheers and counter-cheers.) 
 I believe to be true of every man who stands by me in this conflict 
 what I know to be true of my r self, aid what I cannot but think 
 that Mr. Parnell knew also, and that is that no wirepuller of 
 any English party dared approach any man of us with any pro- 
 posal to corrupt or cajole (cheers), and that if ho ventured it — 
 from Mr. Gladstone down to the humblest hanger-on of politics — 
 he would have reason to remember it and regret it to the last day 
 of his life. (Cheers.) Against what men, Mr. Parnell, have you 
 levelled this imputation ? 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — You have got first to substantiate that 1 have 
 levelled it against any man. You had better heed what you are 
 talking of. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — It is the opening sentence of your manifesto. 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— Will you read it ? 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — I have 'no need to road it. I know it— it has 
 burnt itself on my mind. 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— Read it. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — '•' That tho integrity and independence of a 
 section of the Irish party " 
 
 Mr. Parnell (with emphasis).— "Of a section." 
 
 Mr. Sexton.— What section 1 
 
 Mr. Parnell (rising). — The section who are in treaty with Mr. 
 Labouchero and Professor Stuart— the section of tho party with 
 whom you and other men inside this party 7 , who ought to know
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. SEXTON. 49 
 
 better, have arranged to put mo out of my position in this party. 
 (Cheers and counter-cheers.) In every hole and corner of this 
 House this conspiracy has been going on for days, and I would 
 have issued no manifesto to the Irish people if I had not felt that 
 the time was come for me to let them know what was going on 
 behind their backs, and to recall the self-respect of the party. 
 (Cheers and counter-cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Sexton.— I have to declare, Mr. Parnell, with alj the 
 calmness I can command, that tho statement you have madb, so 
 far as it concerns me or any member of the party of whom I have 
 any knowledge, is absolutely and utterly unfounded. (Cheers 
 and counter-cheers.) I have never entered into any treaty with 
 any member. (Cheers.) My first knowledge of the circumstances 
 which led to this painful position was the letter Mr. Gladstone 
 addressed to Mr. Morley, of which I only knew a few moments 
 before the assembly of a number of the members of this party and 
 this party alone, and it was upon the impulse and patriotic feel- 
 ing of the members of this party and this party alone, gathered 
 together without a suggestion from, or without connexion with, 
 any other party whatever, that the movement arose which has led 
 to this meeting to-day. (Cheers.) I have been faithful and my 
 friends have been faithful in our fealty to this party, and I 
 challenge any man to offer a proof, or attempt to offer a shadow 
 of proof, that I or any friend of mine has ever consulted with any 
 English member against the leader of this party. The imputation 
 must be levelled, if it is levelled against any friend of mine, 
 against the men who, acting upon a sense of duty, have besought 
 you to retire. Who are they ? They are the men who stood beside 
 you in the original fight by which this party was founded. They 
 are the men who shared your imprisonment in Kilmainham and 
 endured many imprisonments besides. They are the men who 
 endured with you the ordeal of the Special Commission ; they 
 are your own chosen lieutenants in the strife of Parliament. 
 
 Mr, John O'Connor.— Not all. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — The exception proves the rule. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — All I have to say with regard to choosing 
 representatives is that I have not chosen eight members of the 
 Parliamentary party. Everybody has chosen my colleagues 
 except myself. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — The point I was endeavouring to urge was that 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dec. l. 
 
 50 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 amongst the men who from public duty besought you to re- 
 tiro are to bo found the men who havo stood immediately around 
 you during the past 11 years, who have borne the brunt of the 
 Parliamentary fight — the men whose advice you continually sought, 
 and the men whose advice in moments of emergency you liked to 
 have — and, let mo add, the men who now find themselves con- 
 fronted by this imputation are the very men who created the in- 
 tegrity and vindicated the independence of this party under cir- 
 cumstances which would not havo made it strange if the in- 
 dependence and integrity of any party had been sapped and 
 destroyed. (Cheers.) I refer to the men who for weeks and for 
 months and for years back have had to guard and guide this party 
 at times when you were not in their midst, and when they had no 
 opportunity of referring to you, and strengthening themselves by 
 your wise counsel and advice. And if these circumstances, Mr. 
 Parnell, in your judgment, should not have intervened, T believe 
 that in the judgment of Ireland and the civilized world they will 
 effectually intervene between your followers and the imputation 
 which in a moment of personal emergency you have ventured to 
 cast upon them. (Cheers.) Integrity is not unconditional 
 acceptance of the views of any man ; independence is not sub- 
 mission to the will of any man. Wo are your colleagues, Mr. 
 Parnell, but wo are not your slaves. 
 
 Mr. Pahnell. — Hear, hear. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — I claim in the face of the world, and I claim in 
 the presence of the Most High, that the integrity of the Irish 
 party is unstained, and that its independence is absolute. 
 (Cheers.) Tho question, the urgent question, is between the 
 leader whom we have loved — whom we can never forgot, and whose 
 useful tenure of his position circumstances have made impossible 
 —the question is between him and the cause to which our fealty 
 is due. If tho leader is retained, in my judgment the cause is 
 lost ; if the cause is to be won, it is essential that tho leader 
 should retire. (Cheers and counter-cheers.) I am acting, I 
 solemnly doclare, against my natural will and against the whole 
 strong current of my disposition. Be my time in politics long or 
 short — and I shall be happy to be reliovod of tho obligation of 
 public life— but be my time in politics long or short, I assure you, 
 Mr. Parnell, and I beg you to give mo credit for sincerity in this 
 declaration, I assure you I never can have a leader whom 1 can
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. J. REDMOND. 51 
 
 love and regard as I have loved and regarded you. (Cheers.) 1 
 am obliged to do violence to my own desire, I am obliged to over- 
 come my natural inclination, acting upon the stern compulsion 
 of duty, and if it were the last act of my life — the act by which 
 I would ask my friends to remember me and the country to judge 
 me — I am obliged to vote that the retirement of our leader, for a 
 period at least, is urgent, and that to accept Colonel Nolan's 
 motion would be to create a public danger, because I believe that 
 every day's delay in determining this situation is filled with the 
 most dangerous risk. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr, John Redmond, — Sir, the speech to which we have just 
 listened seems to me, in its tone at any rate, to be a strong argu- 
 ment for a delay of this question (hear, hear), and I have risen 
 for the purpose of supporting the amendment moved by my hon. 
 and gallant friend Colonel Nolan. One of the earlier declarations 
 made by Mr. Sexton is one which bodes ill for any useful purpose 
 from a debate of this question in this room. T allude to his state- 
 ment that no power on earth can change his mind upon the 
 matter. (Hear, hear.) If that be so I ask myself what earthly 
 use is debate or discussion on the matter, if men's minds are 
 closed to argument and to reason ? If that be so would it not be 
 better for us at once and without delay of even half an hour to 
 give our votes, without reason or argument or discussion, upon 
 this mere matter of party organization (hear, hear), which when 
 looked more closely into involves the deposition of the leader of 
 the Irish race ? 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — Mr. Redmond will allow me to say that when I 
 spoke of power I meant, of course, compulsion. 
 
 Mr. Redmond.— I understood Mr. Sexton to say that his mind 
 was irrevocably made up upon this question. (Hear, hear.) If 
 that be so there is no relevance in his interrupting me. I claim 
 to speak here with just as much authority as Mr. Sexton. (Hear, 
 hear.) 
 
 Mr. Sexton.— Hear, hear. 
 
 Mr. Redmond. — Do not let me be misunderstood. I do not 
 claim the same authority from attainments or services, but I do 
 claim the same authority as he has claimed for himself to speak 
 here on behalf of the men who stood by your side, Mr. Parnell, 
 when, almost alone, you created this movement. (Hear, hear.) 
 I claim the right to speak as one of those who, during the ten 
 
 d— 2 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 52 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 yoars that have elapsed, both in Parliament and in tho country 
 and in America and Australia and throughout tho world, have 
 freely given the best years perhaps of my life in sustainmont of 
 the cause which Mr. Sexton sorved and you led. And there was 
 ono portion of Mr. Sexton's speech which found a responsive 
 echo in my heart, where he deprecated any heated expression 
 from members of this party which might dead to bitterness and 
 animosities, which probably, if not checked, might last for a life- 
 time. I echo that ; but in echoing that I am bound, as an honest 
 man, to say that that consideration did not have the effect of 
 modifying many of the expressions used and almost the whole 
 of the tone adopted by Mr. Sexton in his spoech. This is a 
 question, gentlemen, whether you will come to a decision now 
 on the question of the retirement of the leader of tho party or 
 whether you will adjourn it for further consideration. One of the 
 arguments used by my hon. and gallant friend Colonel Nolan is 
 that we ought to meet for this purpose in the metropolis of our 
 country. That may seem a matter more of sentiment than of 
 practical importance, but I am bound to say that in this matter 
 it is impossible, in my opinion, for tho representatives of tho 
 Irish nation to place sentiment entirelyout of their mind. (Hear, 
 hear.) It was in the capital of the Irish nation that you were 
 called formally to that chair that you occupy, and I do say that 
 if you are to bo deposed from that chair the proper place to do it 
 is in the capital of the Irish nation and in the face of the Irish 
 people. (Loud cheers.) Mr. Soxton has said that he denies that 
 this is a question that he feels bound to appeal to his consti- 
 tuents upon. That seems to me to bo an unanswerable argument 
 of his. Jf ho is true to his description of these proceedings, 
 that it is a matter merely of party organization, then I admit 
 that this party mooting anywhere at very short notice might 
 deal with it. But let us not shuffle with the real situation. 
 This is not a mero question of party organization. (Cheers.) 
 This is a question as to whether tho man who is not merely 
 tho leader of this party, but who has, by his services, earned 
 for himself the position of loader of the Irish race throughout 
 tho world, is to be deposed from tho position by a voto of the 
 representatives of the Irish people ; and it does scorn to mo 
 a heartbreaking circumstance that any consideration of danger to 
 party alliance in England or any other matters should have such
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. J. REDMOND. 53 
 
 an effect upon the minds of the national representatives of tho 
 Irish people as to induce men like Mr. Sexton to deprecate in this 
 matter a short delay, that the Irish members may make sure that 
 in this matter they are acting in accordance with the full wishes 
 and opinions of the Irish race at home and abroad. Mr. Sexton 
 used a very strong argument, if this was a 3mall matter such as 
 he described, in saying that a dissolution of Parliament may 
 take place, as I understood, within the eight days for which my 
 friend Colonel Nolan asks for an adjournment ; or, to take tho 
 other extreme limit which my hon. and gallant friend suggested — 
 three weeks — that a dissolution of Parliament may find us, if it 
 takes place during that time, if an adjournment is granted, in a 
 disorganized and disunited position. Is there any man in this 
 room sanguine enough to say that if to-day by your vote you 
 depose from that chair the leader of the Irish race, in eight days 
 the result of that action will have so disappeared that the Irish 
 race will present to the enemy an unbroken and united front 1 
 (Loud cheers.) My position on this matter is a very plain one. 
 I have been, as you know, Mr. Parnell, a faithful and loyal 
 colleague and follower of yours ; I have as you, gentlemen, know 
 — those of you at any rate who have been for years in this party 
 with me know — that I have been a faithful colleague. I owe 
 loyalty to the leader of this party, and I also owe loyalty to the 
 party ; and I think — although this is not perhaps the main issue, 
 I do think — the sooner we make our position clear the better. 
 (Hear, hear.) I intend to vote and to use every exertion in my 
 power for the leadership of this party and the Irish people by 
 Mr. Parnell, but at the same time I recognize the duty I owe to 
 this party, and I recognize the obligation and the pledge which I 
 took when in 1885 I was elected a member of this party — that if 
 this party comes to a decision hostile to my view, then before 
 taking any steps to support Mr. Parnell, if he chooses to go further, 
 I will resign my seat and consult the wishes of my constituents. 
 It seems to me that this amendment raises matters of the gravest 
 importance. Mr. Sexton has based his refusal of a delay upon 
 this ground — namely, that this matter is urgent. And why is it 
 urgent ? Because you will say that the continued leadership for 
 eight days means the utter destruction of the Liberal alliance. 
 (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) Now, the danger of an alliance 
 between the Irish party and an English party at this moment i§ 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 54 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 no doubt a matter of concern and importance, but in deciding a 
 question of tins kind, where we are asked to sell our leader (loud 
 cheers) to preserve an alliance, it seems to mo that wo ate bound 
 to inquiro what wo are getting for the price that wo are paying. 
 (Renewed cheers.) 
 
 The Chairman. — Don't sell me for nothing. If you get my 
 value, you may change me to-morrow. (Renewed cheers.) 
 
 Mb. Redmond (resuming). —The first thing, Mr. JParnell, that I 
 desire to make plain is my view on this point. It seems to me 
 that in selling our leader in order to preserve the Liberal alliance, 
 we are soiling absolutely and irrevocably the independence of the 
 Irish party. (Loud cheers.) This party has been powerful only 
 because it has been independent. Every Irish party that ever 
 existed in this House fell in the same way — through the inde- 
 pendence of the party being bartered away ; and I believe in my 
 heart that if we sacrifice you to preserve this alliance that the 
 days in our generation of the independence of the Irish party are 
 at an end. What, I would like to know, woidd bo the position of 
 this party if you were sacrificed, and if a portion of the party 
 held together — I am supposing a number of things — and if the 
 Liberal party camo back to power and a Home Rule Bill were 
 proposed — what position, I want to know, would the Irish party 
 under such circumstances be in if they wont to Mr. Gladstone 
 and demanded from him a full measure of our national rights ? 
 Why, Mr. Gladstone would be absolutely unfettered, and he 
 would have the Irish party, so to speak, in tho hollow of his 
 hand. The independence of the party would be gone, and it 
 would bo — and this is ono of the most urgent reasons for the 
 course I am taking — a discredited and powerless tool of the 
 Liberal party. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Parnell and gentlemen, in 
 estimating the value of a Liberal alliance, we aro bound to take 
 into account the statements made by you in the manifesto which 
 you have issued. Now, you have made certain statements with 
 reference to the provisions of the Home Rulo Bill which Mr. 
 Gladstone says ho will introduce if he comes back to power. You 
 have given a description of that Bill, which Ichallongo contradic- 
 tion from any Nationalist in this room when I say it reduces that 
 Bill to a sham and a fraud on the Nationalist aspirations (loud 
 cheers), and if that description given by you bo true, thon all the 
 sacrifices mado to obtain that Bill would bo thrown away, and we
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. J. REDMOND. 55 
 
 would be sacrificing you for what would be regarded by the Irish 
 race throughout the world as a compromise of our principles and 
 a betrayal of our cause. But Mr. Gladstone has made a denial. 
 He has denied your recollection of what he said on the four 
 points mentioned by you, upon the vital point of the control by 
 the Irish Executive of the Irish police, upon the equally vital 
 point of the power to deal with the land question being given to 
 the Irish Parliament. He says his recollection differs from 
 yours, and he denies your version of the provisions of the Bill. 
 But Mr. Gladstone abstains absolutely from giving to the public 
 or the Irish nation anything in the shape of a definite or clear 
 statement as to what he proposes (cheers), and if it comes to a 
 question of recollection — in this I speak only for myself — if it 
 comes to a question of recollection, of veracity, I have no hesita- 
 tion in saying that I am prepared to take your word before his. 
 (Hear, hear.) But what I want to point out is this. This party 
 is probably aware — if it is not aware of it, I will ask you, Sir, to 
 confirm what 1 say, and I will appeal to Mr. Justin M'Carthy, 
 also, to confirm it — this party is probably aware that on Saturday 
 last you made a proposal to Mr. Gladstone of such a character 
 as I venture to say stamps the whole of your conduct in this 
 matter as highly patriotic and self-sacrificing. 
 
 The Chairman. — The proposal was made by Mr. M'Carthy to 
 Mr. Gladstone. 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy. — On his own account? 
 
 Mr. Redmond. — Well, now, we will deal with that afterwards. 
 I have said that I will ask Mr. Parnell and Mr. M'Carthy to 
 confirm what I am saying. That proposal as I understood it — 
 I speak subject to the correction of these gentlemen — as I under- 
 stand it was this— that if Mr. Parnell's recollection of what 
 took place at that interview were wrong, then let Mr. Gladstone 
 give definite and clear assurances 
 
 The Chairman.— To Mr. M'Carthy privately. 
 
 Mr. Redmond. — To give power to a Parliament in Dublin to 
 deal with the land question and to give to that Parliament con- 
 trol over the police — that then under these circumstances you 
 were willing, having gained that for the Irish nation, to sacrifice 
 every personal consideration and retire from public life. (Loud 
 cheers.) And, Mr. Parnell, as I understand the situation, that 
 overture to Mr. Gladstone has been fruitless, and, for one reason 
 
 Dec. 1,
 
 Deo. 1. 
 
 56 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 or another, as to which others must spoak, Mr. Gladstono de- - 
 clined to give the assurances required. I mention those things 
 for two reasons. First of all — and God knows it seems a heart- 
 breaking thing for an Irish .Nationalist member to have to say it — 
 I use this argument because I think it seems your conduct is 
 honourable, patriotic, and self-sacrificing. I allude to it, also, 
 because it shows the measure of the value of this Liberal alliance 
 for which we are sacrificing you. (Cheers.) This Liberal alliance 
 means this — that if we consent to sacrifice you the Liberals will, 
 forsooth, make some little endeavour in the country to act up to 
 thoir solemn pledges of supporting Home Rule, not for love of us 
 or of you, but because it was a just cause. They will, if we 
 sacrifice you, continue to advocate Home Rule as a just cause, 
 and they hopo — a very delusive hope, as it seems to me — that 
 under those circumstances they may be ablo to obtain a majority 
 at the English polls. Very well, and that will mean the intro- 
 duction by Mr. Gladstone of a Homo Rule Bill. You have chal- 
 lenged that Homo Rule Bill as a fraud upon the national hopes, 
 and you have told Mr. Gladstono that if he says he will intro- 
 duce provisions making it a genuino Home Rule Bill you will 
 retire, and I say that you can appeal with confidence to the Irish 
 race to decido between you. (Loud cheers.) If this bo the 
 measure of the benefit to be gained by Ireland by the preservation 
 of tho Home Rule allianco, [ do not believe the Home Rule 
 alliance is worth preservation, at the enormous, at the torriblo 
 cost of sacrificing you. (Cheers.) Mr. Parnell, I was one of 
 those who, in common with a largo numbor of gentlemon in this 
 room, freely spoke our mind in Dublin of your political position 
 immediately after the newspapers had told us tho details of tho 
 recent trial. I was not present at your re-election on Tuesday, 
 but, as I understand it, the party unanimously ro-elected you 
 as chairman (hear, hear), with tho full knowledge, of course, 
 of tho proceedings to .which I havo alluded. Tha altera- 
 tion in the attitudo of the party only camo about when 
 Mr. Gladstone issued his ukase that, forsooth, you should 
 bo trampled under foot. (Cheers.) I say that attitudo taken 
 by Mr. Gladstono was unworthy of a great man. I say that 
 in my belief the attitude taken by him was not tho attitude, 
 and up to this moment is not the attitude, of an honest 
 man. My belief is that if he were a great man he would not bo
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. J. REDMOND. 57 
 
 so precipitate in writing that letter. If he were an honest man 
 and he were true in his denials of your manifesto, he would now, 
 even at the eleventh hour, give such assurances as would ease 
 the political situation. No. It seems to me, however, that his 
 desire is that you should be trampled to the ground, and whoever 
 tramples you I will not take part in the transaction. (Cheers.) 
 As to your retention being a danger to the Irish cause and the 
 Homo Rule cause, I do not believe that that is a real danger, and 
 these are the reasons why I do not believe my friend Mr. Sexton's 
 argument is a sound one when he says that this matter is urgent, 
 because this alliance would be broken up if you are retained. 
 There is one other matter to which I want to allude, and that is 
 a matter which has not been directly mentioned in this room, 
 excepting some communications read from the chair, but which 
 has formed, both in your manifesto and outside, a considerable 
 ground of argument and discussion — viz., the question of evicted 
 tenants in Ireland. Now, I am speaking in the presence of my 
 friends Mr. Condon, Mr. Sheehy, Mr. John Roche, and other 
 men who have been specially connected with this question, and 
 I claim from them the concession of this position to me — that I 
 have been identified during the whole of this Campaign move- 
 ment in Ireland as much as they have been identified with these 
 tenants. I am as much pledged to those tenants as my friends 
 Mr. Condon or Mr. Sheehy. When Mr. Dillon and Mr. O'Brien 
 were leaving this country they did me the honour of asking me to 
 take some share, with one or two of my friends, in the manage- 
 ment of the affairs on these estates ; and, therefore, I think I 
 can speak as one who has had some responsibility in the matter 
 and as one who, by his action, has shown he is full of sympathy 
 for these tenants, and I say here that I would sooner cut off my 
 right hand than do anything which would have the effect of 
 destroying the hopes of these men and leaving them to starvation. 
 But, Sir, I take a different view altogether with reference to this 
 matter from that taken by my friends. I fear that if this party, 
 yielding to English clamour, yielding to the dictation of English 
 statesmen, sacrifices you, that the source of the supply on which 
 these tenants have been depending for so long— the generosity of 
 the Irish people in America — will be diverted from these tenants 
 in a way which could not be possible under any other conceivable 
 circumstances. (Hear, hear.) Any man who has been in 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dkc. 1. 
 
 58 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 America, as I have, and knows America as intimately as I do, 
 must be aware of the fact that your dethronement will rend the 
 Irish people in America in twain (cheers) ; and I say, in the 
 face of such a calamity as that, in America it will be impossible 
 to rely on the source of tho generosity of the people which has 
 been sufficient to sustain those tenants in the past. 1 have to 
 say more than that. I believe that in the pledge you have given 
 that you will stand by those tenants those tenants have the 
 most complete assurance that they will in the future be dealt 
 with ; that tho portion of your demands on the Home Rule 
 Bill in reference to the power to bo given to the Irish Parlia- 
 ment to deal with tho land question is a direct demand on 
 your part for power to restore those tenants to their homes. 
 (Cheers.) I believe that these tenants would unanimously repro- 
 bate the idea that you are to be sacrificed for them. (Hear, hear.) 
 I believe that if these Campaign tenants were polled to-morrow 
 they would have sufficient manliness and patriotism to say to 
 their representatives here, " Your first duty is Ireland — your first 
 duty is to the loyalty you owe to the independence of your party 
 and your leader ; and you are not to allow your position or 
 your interests in the remotest degree to interfere with the dis- 
 charge of that duty." I will say nothing about my motive in 
 this matter ; I disdain to do it. (Cheers.) My public record, 
 without any boasting, 1 should say entitles me to the belief (loud 
 cheers), entitles me to entertain the belief that, whatever course 
 I take, the Irish people will believe that I am actuated by the 
 highest motives of patriotism. (Loud cheers.) It is true that I 
 have a feeling of personal loyalty to you. I have said elsewhere, 
 and I say here, that you have been my friend, and I think this 
 is no time in which a man who has been once your friend should 
 turn against you. (Hear, hear.) But I most solemnly think 
 that while you remain my friend and my personal attachment is 
 the same to you as it always was, I declare most solemnly, and 
 1 know I will be believed — 1 am entitled to be boheved — that 
 in this consideration I am not allowing my personal attach- 
 ment to you to weigh in tho balance. I would sacrifice my 
 liberty, I would sacrifice my life, I would sacrifice the liberty 
 and lifo of tho truest and best friend I have in the world for 
 tho sako of the independence of my country. (Cheers.) It 
 is not a personal motive that animates mo ; it is because
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. T. HEALY. 59 
 
 I believe your maintenance is necessary to the success of our 
 cause. (Hear, hear.) It is because I believe that your over- 
 throw will be an instance of ingratitude such as has been shown 
 in no other country in the world, perhaps, and such as will 
 stamp the Irish people as unworthy of those rights which you 
 and all of us have been working for. For this reason, and with 
 the full sense of my responsibility, I am here to support your 
 leadership, and I hope it will not be considered irreverent of me 
 if I say that I hope the God of our fathers will direct the heart 
 and conscience of every man in this room to come to a just deci- 
 sion ; and I consider that, whatever arguments may sway the 
 minds of men, their main reason for supporting you, or even 
 opposing you, will be a desire for the welfare of their country 
 (hear, hear), and, expressing my hope, with which I will con- 
 clude, that this terrible crisis in the history of Ireland and in the 
 history of our party may not be allowed, shall not be allowed, 
 to bring once more upon our people the terrible curse of disunion 
 — second only to the terrible curse of want of independence to 
 which in the past we have owed most of the miseries and mis- 
 fortune of our country — I invite you, gentlemen, to give your 
 votes for Ireland. (Loud and prolonged cheers.) I invite you to 
 give your votes for the independence and honour of Ireland's 
 representatives (renewed cheers), and from my point of view you 
 cannot give your vote for Ireland or the independence of our 
 party or the cause of our freedom unless you give it in support 
 of the man who has brought us to our present position, and who, 
 in spite of all, in my humble judgment, is destined to lead us to 
 the fulfilment of all the hopes and traditions of our race. (Loud 
 cheers.) 
 
 Me. T. M. Healy. — I am very glad indeed that my friend Mr. 
 Redmond has so eloquently and truly stated that there is no 
 necessity on the part of any man here present by his vote to vin- 
 dicate the motives with regard to which he is influenced in cast- 
 ing it. I heartily and cordially declare that in the bitter days 
 that have gone by I have never found greater occasion to admire 
 and respect my colleague, and I will say this — that, whatever 
 vote may be given to him to-day, I have the fullest assurance that 
 this party will remain united and unbroken (hear, hear), and 1 
 no more challenge the rectitude of purpose of any man opposed 
 to my own views (hear, hear) than I would permit any man to 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 60 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 challenge tho rectitude of my purpose. (Cheers.) Therefore it 
 was that I regretted that iti tho very opening observations of my 
 friend Mr. Sexton ho should have been interrupted with the 
 statoinent that he was to be found in the lobbies and corridors of 
 the Houso of Commons taking treasonable counsel with tho oppo- 
 nents of Mr. Parnell to eject him from his position in order 
 practically to better his country ; and I am amazed that my 
 friend Mr. Redmond, seeing tho patience with which that insult 
 was borne, should have complained that Mr. Sexton's reply was 
 harsh or imported anything of a bitter feeling. I must say for 
 myself that I do not think I possess sufficient self-command, if 
 such accusations were hurled at my face, to deal with them with 
 the moderation that ho did. Now I pass from that subject and I 
 address myself to the argumentative portion of my friend Mr. 
 Redmond's address. The amendment of Colonel Nolan before 
 the chair is that wo shall delay our decision and meet in Dublin. 
 •We are, I presume, as much in possession to-day of Mr. Parnell 's 
 viows through his manifesto as we shall be were we to meet in 
 Dublin. 1 do not think he could very well add anything to what 
 he has said in that manifesto. For it is unlikely that he would 
 have omitted therefrom any argument that could be used to affect 
 opinion in the position in which he was placed. Therefore, as 
 the statement of the case is put forward on Mr. Famell's behalf 
 by the bost authority — namely, himself — we ought to be in full 
 possession of his side of the argument. I do not see, thorofore, 
 where would be the gain to him in this delay. As for tho place 
 of meeting being Dublin, I honour the motivo of my friend 
 Colonel Nolan, but, really, poor Dublin has been so passod over 
 in meetings of this party in the past that it is a somewhat novel 
 proposal to make now that judgment should be given in a parti- 
 cular locality. I next come to the statement of Mr. Redmond 
 with regard to yielding to English clamour and to English states- 
 men. Ourdomand from tho English people is such a measure of 
 Homo Rulo as wo can honourably accept for our country. We 
 abated many of our demands when wo accepted tho Home Rule 
 Bill of 188G. (The Chairman.— Hear, hoar.) Tho abatement 
 of those demands was made by the members of our party who had 
 boon sentoncod to be hanged, drawn, and quartered in endeavouring 
 to achieve a greater measure of self-government for Ireland. Why 
 was that abatement made ? To conciliate English opinion. (Tho
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. T. HEALY. 01 
 
 Chairman. — Hear, hear.) And is English opinion now only to be 
 described as clamour when we have to sacrifice all the historic 
 claims of our country handed down to us for generations ? We 
 believe that the Home Rule Bill outlined in Mr. Parnell's mani- 
 festo is not one the Irish people could accept. I cordially join 
 in that sentiment. (Loud cheers.) I pledge myself to accept no 
 such measure. (Renewed cheers.) But let me mention this 
 strange circumstance — that the two matters in that Home Rule Bill 
 of 188G were the very matters that Mr. Parnell declared horrified 
 him at Hawarden in 1889. As I apprehend — I speak subject to 
 correction — in the Home Rule Bill of 1886 we did not regain or 
 obtain the immediate control of the constabulary. In the Home 
 Rule Bill of 1886 we did not regain or obtain the immediate con- 
 trol of the judiciary, and, with all that, the entire body of Irish 
 members, not 32, but 103, were to be excluded from the Imperial 
 Parliament. Now the objection is put forward, as I understand, 
 that we are only to have 32 members. I am assuming now as the 
 basis of my argument the Hawarden interview upon Mr. Parnell's 
 lines. 
 
 The Chairman. — You are assuming Michael Davitt's account, 
 not mine. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Healy. — I do not know anything about Mr. Michael Davitt. 
 I am afraid he would not allow me on any occasion to become 
 his spokesman. I certainly shall not allow 'myself to be made 
 his spokesman to-day. I therefore say, in so far as these two 
 arguments go, that we came to an agreement — an agreement 
 solemnly ratified by Mr. Parnell — to accept the Home Rule Bill 
 of 1886, and I say that no measure smaller than the Home Rule 
 Bill of 1886 will satisfy us. (Hear, hear.) But Mr. Parnell says I 
 have accepted Mr. Davitt's account of the interview. Quitting 
 Hawarden, almost immediately Mr. Parnell made his way to 
 a public meeting in Liverpool, and the suggestion has been put 
 forward in the manifesto that for nine months he retained the 
 terrible secrets intrusted to him at Hawarden, kept his colleagues 
 in ignorance, allowed some of them to go to Australia, others to 
 America, and all to spend their time and their intellects on 
 English platforms, while he was persuaded at that interview, to 
 use the expression, that " we were at the mercy of the unrivalled 
 coercionist of the Irish race." 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 62 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH TARTY. 
 
 The Chairman.— It was an expression that I used at Wexford 
 throe days before I was arrosted. 
 
 Mit. Healy.— Why did not Mr. Parcel] say three days after lie 
 loft Hawarden ? (Loud cheers.) 
 
 The Chairman.— I told you that I did not say them. 
 Mr. Healy.— You will have the difficulty of summing up to 
 this jury, you being at the same time the judge and the defend- 
 ant. (Cheers and cries of " Oh " and " Shame.") Here are the 
 expressions used at Liverpool after the Hawarden interview— on 
 tho very day of the Hawarden interview. The Hawarden inter- 
 view was on December 19, and on that very day Mr. Parnell found 
 himself speaking at Liverpool,—" We trust that not only in 
 Liverpool, but in tho great county of Lancashire, we shall be able 
 materially to assist in increasing the forces of Liberalism which 
 will rally at the next general election to the assistance of our 
 grand old leader." (Laughter.) And at a subsequent meeting, 
 upon tho same day, Mr. Parnell said,—" The great Liberal 
 party has come to the help and the rescue of Ireland. My 
 countrymen recognize, and join with me in recognizing, that 
 we are on the safe path to our legitimate freedom and future 
 prosperity. They will accompany mo and continue both until 
 you have helpod your great leader to win this bounty which 1 
 trust we are on tho eve of entering upon." Was that misleading 
 the Irish people ? Was that misleading the English people ? 
 Has there been any subsequent interview, and, if so, why was it 
 not stated in the manifesto, in which Mr. Gladstone abandoned 
 the position that ho took up in tho Home Rule Bill of 1886 ? 
 And why, if the Hawarden interview be tho capital matter on 
 which Mr. Parnell bases himself in his manifesto, why, I say, 
 were these false words uttered at Liverpool ? Either Mr. Parnell 
 at Liverpool was false or his manifesto was false. (" Hear, 
 hear," " No, no," and " Shame.") 
 
 Tho Chairman. — I will not stand an accusation of falsohood 
 from Timothy Healy, and I call upon him to withdraw his 
 expressions. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Out of respect to tho chair I will withdraw tho 
 accusation. (Hear, hear.) I say this — that, so far as public 
 utterances went, tho position in which the Irish people were left 
 was the position at Liverpool on the day of the Harwardon inter- 
 view. Which is likely to bo tho moro correct kind— that deliver-
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. T. HEALY. 63 
 
 ance, fresh and straight, with no suggestion of personal motive or 
 personal opposition that could be levelled, or the position 
 assumed on the occasion of this manifesto ? Is the Irish party 
 so bankrupt in its confidence that Mr. Parnell says, as his 
 manifesto declares, that there «vas not one single member of his 
 colleagues to whom he could have intrusted these vital secrets 1 
 (Hear, hear.) So much in reference to that point. I then come 
 to the suggestion that in the action we are taking we are taking it 
 in conjunction with Mr. Labouchere and Professor Stuart. 
 
 The Chairman. — Hear, hear. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — William O'Brien and John Dillon are in Chicago. 
 
 Mr. Dalton. — Four thousand miles away. They do not know 
 what is going on. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Precisely. They are 4,000 miles away from Mr. 
 Labouchere and Professor Stuart. 
 
 Dr. Kenny. — What communications were sent to them 1 
 
 Mr. Healy. — The long despatch of our delegates in America 
 was ruled out upon a technicality, though no man questions, or 
 could question, its genuineness. 
 
 The Chairman. — It is not to hand yet. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — We have all read it, and I therefore say that the 
 suggestion need not be levelled at my friend Mr. Sexton, or any 
 other man, that he has arrived at any conclusion adverse to Mr. 
 Parnell because of interviews and colloquies in the corridors or 
 lobbies. It is so unfounded as to be almost absurd. These 
 men have come to their conclusions surrounded by that free 
 America which Mr. Redmond threatened us will have its sympa- 
 thies dried up. We are appealed to by Mr. Redmond on the 
 ground that America will be adverse to our action and that he has 
 travelled in America, and that no more will the evicted tenants 
 be supported from the United States, because he knows the feeling 
 in that great Republic. Who knows it best, John Redmond or 
 John Dillon — the men who are there now, and who, from their 
 place in America, surrounded by tens of thousands of Irishmen, 
 and, ay, of Irish regiments with bayonets and arms in their 
 hands — which are more likely to give in to the clamour, and to 
 English clamour alone ? I say this — that to void the action of 
 the Irish party, or any section of that party, upon the accusation 
 of personal motive is a proceeding which recoils upon its author. 
 It is unfounded, and the retort that, en my part, it will receive is 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 61 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 that what personal motives influenced us influenced our leader. 
 I will assume that no personal motive animated anybody, and 
 when Mr. Redmond reminds us of declarations made in Dublin, 
 I say that the declaration which I shall have the most reason to 
 look back to with satisfaction in my life was the declaration I felt 
 able to make for Mr. Farnoll in the Loinster Hall (hear, hear), and 
 if ho had any glimmerings of the honesty and patriotism in the 
 breasts of those who opposed him ho would have seen in that 
 declaration the greatost evidence of the sacrifice that we were pre- 
 pared to make for him in the cause of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) 
 Yos, I went to tho Leinster Hall meeting and pronounced for Mr. 
 Parnell in the face of English clamour. Aye, we stood up for 
 Mr. Pamoll against the Bulls of the Popo of Pome. (Cheers.) 
 It was not likely we would allow ourselves to bo influenced by 
 tho declarations of a single Wesleyan pulpit. Therefore, until it 
 was made manifest to me that, for reasons into which I shall not 
 enter, he had alienated the bulk, I may say the entirety, of that 
 body of opinion which we wero bound in this matter to defer to, 
 until it was shown that he had left himself no foothold upon 
 which he could help Ireland through the medium of the English 
 people, it was then, and then only, that I folt driven to the posi- 
 tion which 1 occupy to-day. And let me remind him that I was 
 not alone in that declaration. He refers to Mr. Labouchere, I 
 notice, as the name of the person with whom we have been 
 colloguing. I notice that Mr. Labouchero took up an exactly 
 similar position, and that Professor Stuart, through the columns 
 of the Star, of which he is a director and editor, in as far as ho 
 could stem the torrent of English opinion, endeavoured to prevent 
 the calamity of dissension and disunion among the friends of 
 Ireland by recommending the retention of Mr. Parnell. So far, 
 then, for the personal matter. Why do I defer to English 
 opinion ? Why did we defer to it in the settlement of 1886 ? 
 (Hoar, hear.) Why then were we willing, when passion and 
 hatred animated many members of our race — why were we 
 willing to ondeavour to commence an apostolate of friendship 
 with the English people ? Wo were willing to do so because 
 we wero led by Charles Stewart Parnell, and ho was able 
 so to abate that passion and that recollection of wrong 
 and of centuries of suffering on the part of Ireland as to insure 
 this acceptance, almost without an exception, by every body of
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— Mil. T. HEALY. C5 
 
 representatives of the Irish nation. Ireland possessed neither 
 armies nor fleets. Having neither armies nor fleets we are bound 
 to rely upon constitutional and Parliamentary methods. There 
 was no hope for Ireland until Mr. Parnell succeeded in obtain- 
 ing the promise of a Home Hule settlement. (Hear, hear.) He 
 did it in consultation with English opinion, abating many of our 
 demands, forgetting much of our wrongs and sufferings, and 
 when we to-day calculato from that expression of English opinion 
 that, not in units, or in tons, or in thousands, but in millions, 
 the voters of the Liberal party have declared themselves against 
 Mr. Parnell, and declared that the result of the mischief which 
 will result to Ireland by his continuance in the leadership must 
 be fatal to the hopes of our country, I found myself upon the hard 
 necessities of the case ; and while I would rather, if I could, 
 prevent this cataclysm in the party, while I would rather, if I 
 could, prevent the possibility of dissension, or of division, or 
 of difference among our scattered people, I say that the neces- 
 sities of Ireland are paramount. I tell our chairman this —if he 
 consults freely the opinions of his supporters here to-day he 
 will conclude from them that the best thing he could have done 
 for Ireland would have been to have on Tuesday last retired 
 from his position. There may be, of course, individuals amongst 
 our friends of a contrary opinion, but I speak of the volume of 
 opinion of the party and of the volume of opinion amongst his 
 own friends — namely, that if he could have seen his way to have 
 sacrificed his personal feelings upon Tuesday last, and not have 
 been paid, in the events that occurred, the overwhelming and un- 
 paralleled compliment of re-election — if he had been able to say, 
 " Yes, I have served Ireland truly and well ; my services are 
 not denied, they are acknowledged ; but now I have been in- 
 formed by Mr. Gladstone, or I collect from English opinion, that 
 my presence as your leader may present a difficulty in tho 
 future ; and, acting upon that feeling of self-sacrifice which has 
 always animated me, I will temporarily withdraw from a scene 
 where I am no longer of the same advantage and value to my 
 country," it would have been better. That was not the course 
 taken by our chairman. Why was it that on Tuesday last, on the 
 occasion of his re-election, knowing, as he did, what was the 
 feeling of Mr. Gladstone with regard to his position, why did he 
 not there and then take his party into his confidence— (hear, 
 
 E 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 66 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 hear), and, having taken it into his confidence, why did he not then 
 reveal to them the explanation of Mr. Gladstone's attitude that he 
 has inserted in his manifesto of Saturday ? Why was the 
 Irish party allowed on Tuesday and on Wednesday to meet with 
 distracted counsels, without knowing that the secrets of the mani- 
 festo were soon to be revealed to the world i Why was not, then, 
 some communication made to my friends Mr. Sexton or Mr. 
 M'Carthy I Why were they not told—" Ah ! there is a bitter 
 plot against the liberties of Ireland. 1 am to be driven out. The 
 integrity of the Irish party has been sapped, and I am here to 
 warn you and advise you upon it.' J Why was Tuesday allowed 
 to pass, Wednesday allowed to pass, and Thursday allowed to 
 pass, and then not tho party, but the entire world, learn of this 
 event for the first time ? On this ground I oppose the resolution 
 of Colonel Nolan ; but I do so, also, upon this further ground. 
 We have been maintaining Mr. Parnell for years and years, not 
 only on account of his Parliamentary services and his capacity 
 for further service, but because of the great valuo of his name as 
 a magnet and centre for Irish patriotism. Under that name tho 
 scattered units of our race have been collected ; around that 
 name many great historic associations must for ever linger ; but 
 let us retain Mr. Parnell as our leader, and of what value is that 
 name to us ? It will be maintained under these circumstances 
 that Mr. Parnell, having boon declared against by the body and 
 volume of English opinion, purchased his place at the head of 
 our party by driving out of our cause and out of the ranks of poli- 
 tical service the first great English statesman who has held out 
 the hand of help and fellowship to Ireland. (Cheers.) Might 
 not that consideration give him pause 1 Might he not consider 
 that at least there is a possibility of dissension, as to whether he 
 should go or stay, amongst these scattered units of the Gael ? 
 Would we be ablo in future to conjure with that name which had 
 been used as a battering ram to drive Mr. Gladstone out of the 
 possibility of further service to Ireland ? We have a distracted 
 1 ublic opinion in Ireland. That at least will be conceded. Let 
 tho proposal of my friend Colonel Nolan or of my friend Mr. 
 Redmond lie carried, and let us maintain Mr. Parnell in his 
 position ; can wo doubt that there will lie dissension and dis- 
 traction amongst our countrymen 1 Can we doubt that we would 
 no longer lie able to magnetize our people by that name, when it
 
 COL. NOLAN' SI AMENDMENT— MR. T. HEALY. 67 
 
 is known that we have only agreed in rallying round him against 
 the better judgment of all the more important members of our 
 party— of Dillon, O'Brien, T. D. Sullivan, of Justin M'Carthy, of 
 Sexton, of Arthur O'Connor, and of so many honoured names amongst 
 our people ? And if we were now, on the appeal of Mr. Redmond, 
 to close our ranks once more round the name of Parnell and 
 to determine to exorcise Mr. Gladstone from English politics as if 
 he were the evil spirit, " the unrivalled coercionist of the Irish 
 race," if we were to drive him out from his capacity for service 
 to the Irish people by muttering incantations of unity and of 
 friendship, when there can be neither the one or the other, our 
 unity as a party is gone. Our friendship- — where is it in the face 
 of accusations that our integrity is sapped and that we are engaged 
 in treasonable cabals around the corridors against our country's 
 greatest friend ? Freedom, unity ! I say to Mr. Parnell his 
 power is gone. He derived that power from the people. We are 
 the representatives of the people. (Loud and prolonged cheers.) 
 Place an iron bar in a coil and electrize that coil and the iron 
 bar becomes magnetic. This party was that electric action. 
 There (pointing to the chairman) stood the iron bar. The elec- 
 tricity is gone, and the magnetism with it, when our support has 
 passed away. If my words appear to some of my friends to be 
 too strong or too bitter, I say this— that I speak in this arraign- 
 ment fully conscious that we, upon our side, must confine our- 
 selves to the irreducible minimum of statement ; and that, upon 
 the other side, every argument, every appeal, every artifice (cries 
 of " Oh ") — I withdraw the word if it is offensive — every senti- 
 ment that passion or friendship can arouse may be safely and 
 generously appealed to. We have nothing before us but stern 
 realities. (Hear, hear.) We cannot found our position upon 
 sentiment, upon the claims of friendship, upon anything except 
 the awful necessities that surround us in the presence of a 
 trembling Irish cause. (Hear, hear.) I say, then, and declare, 
 that my vote shall be for the deposition of the chairman of this 
 party. I will not give that vote without regret. We are not all 
 cold and passionless. I give it under what I conceive to be the 
 solemnest obligations of duty and of patriotism. (Hear, hear.) 
 If we could have maintained Mr. Parnell in that position we 
 would have done so. Did we leave one stone unturned or effort 
 unmade, one meeting unaddressed or unappealed to, to maintain 
 
 e— 2 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 68 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 him wliero he was ? I examine my conscience in regard to my 
 duty towards Mr. Pamell in this crisis. I find therein no prick 
 of conscience. I say, then, that, having regard to the distrac- 
 tions to our country if he remains, and to the knowledge I pos- 
 soss of the patriotism of my colleagues who will support him, 
 and the patriotism and sense of unity of the Irish race, that 1 
 helieve if ho remains his party and his country will bo dis- 
 tracted. That being the case, as all men are ephemeral, and as 
 nothing is eternal save the Irish cause foundod upon a basis of 
 right and judgment (cheers), I know that those who support him 
 most strongly to-day will, once the vote of the majority is re- 
 corded, rally round the position which he now occupies, and 
 which will then become the heart and centre of Irish authority 
 and patriotism. I know that my country similarly and its peoplo 
 will rally round that position. Men pass away and causes 
 remain, and the Irish cause will march through these dissen- 
 sions and these distractions purified and eternal. (Cheers.) I 
 tell Mr. l J arnell that if ho has a sacrifice to make upon the altar 
 of his country there is yet time. He can still hand down to his 
 countrymen a name upon which no fleck of even bitterest malice 
 can be cast if he takes counsel with those who are as patriotic as 
 himself, who are as single-minded and as single-purposed as 
 himself, but who are resolved here, defj'ing every consideration 
 except the consideration of country, who are determined here to 
 cast their votes for that country, and to cast their votes for it 
 believing that they are doing an act which will yet hew a path- 
 way to freedom. (Loud cheers.) 
 
 Mn. Parnell, who was greeted with loud cheers, said, — I 
 think that the time has como, on this second day of silence on 
 my part, that I should intervene in a debate which has not been 
 provoked by me and in reference to an opposition that has not 
 been made by me — an opposition created, on tho day on which 
 this House met, by tho letter of Mr. Gladstone. We shall have, 
 and thoso who will be responsible for tho decision of this party 
 will have, to deal with first causes in this matter. In apportion- 
 ing the responsibility, you will have to consider your own respon- 
 sibility and what it was from the first. The movers and 
 seconders of this resolution — tho men whose ability has not been 
 so conspicuously exorcised as that of Mr. Healy and Mr. 
 Sexton— will have to bear their responsibility in all this. And who
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. PARNELL. 69 
 
 can doubt it ? Mr. Healy has been trained in this warfare, and 
 who trained him ? Who saw his genius ? Who telegraphed to 
 him from America to como to him ? Who gave him his first 
 opportunity and chance ? Who afterwards got his seat in Parlia- 
 ment for him, rebuking and restraining and going past the prior 
 right of my friend Jack Redmond in Wexford ? That Mr. Healy 
 should be here to-day to destroy me is due to myself. But I am 
 glad he is here to-day to destroy me, if he understands the mean- 
 ing and effect of his own proceedings. If he does, he is respon- 
 sible and I am not. Mr. Healy has reminded us that he attended 
 the meeting in Dublin. He reminded me of his services. He 
 has not been slow ,to remind me of his- services to me and 
 the party. He reminded us that he attended that meeting in 
 Dublin. (Mr. Healy.— I reminded Mr. Redmond.) I under- 
 stand that Mr. Healy attended this meeting in Dublin and 
 seconded the resolution calling on me not to retire from the 
 leadership. (Loud cheers.) Who asked him to «do that ? Did 
 I 1 (Renewed cheering.) Who asked Mr. Justin M'Carthy to 
 travel to Dublin and to say that he could give secret information 
 to throw a different complexion on hidden events ? Did I ? 
 (Loud cheers.) Where was Mr. Sexton at this meeting ? (Re- 
 newed cheering.) When his counsel might have been of import- 
 ance in preventing -the ravelling of a false situation, where was 
 he ? Where were you all ? Why did you encourage me to come 
 forward and maintain my leadership in the face of the world if 
 you were not going to stand by me '? Why .did my officers en_ 
 courage me to come forward and take my position on the bridge 
 and at the wheel if they were going to act as traitors and to hand 
 me over to the other 'commander-in-chief ? (Renewed cheering.) 
 I did not ask them to do that. I did not ask them for this certi- 
 ficate of character, of which so 'much was made at the Dublin 
 meeting. 1 did not give Mr. Justin M'Carthy any information. 
 I did not ask that that meeting should be held. And you talk of 
 the position that has been created and why it has been created- 
 I will show you before I sit down why .it has -been created, and 
 that the blame for its creation does not rest with me. Of the man 
 that has been put up— I was going to say the leader-killer 
 (laughter and cheers) — the leader-killer who sharpens his poniard 
 to stab me as he stabbed the old lion, Isaac Butt, in the days 
 gone by — I remember well, and it will be a recollection which will 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dkc. 1. 
 
 70 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 always be a comfort to mo, that though Isaac Butt " reneged " 
 mo, I nover in word or deed counselled the attacks made on 
 him, and although the times were times, of crisis, such as we 
 did pass through and may again — although the times were times 
 of stress — I allowed that old man to go down honoured to his 
 grave rather than that 1 should seek to step into tho shoes of a 
 politician who, however many his faults, had created a great 
 movement, and had given to me, and to many others, the power 
 of participating, and taking part in 'it. (Loud cheers.) Now, 
 what is to be said ahout my .temporary retirement ? Was that 
 request as honest as the one Mr. Sexton made me when he asked 
 me to resume the leadership ? (Ironical cheers.) He who had 
 refused to come to the Dublin meeting comes to the London 
 one. He asks me to take the leadership with one voice, and ten 
 minutes afterwards he announced, to my astonishment, that 
 when he made me that request ha believed that I would reject it. 
 (Laughter and cheers.) Oh, yes ! It is easy enough to talk .about 
 honesty in politics. It is easy enough to talk about speeches in 
 seeming contradiction one with the other. I am asked about 
 going to Hawarden. 1 go to Hawardon. I receive this communi- 
 cation from Mr. Gladstone. I am told that this communication 
 is not to be divulged to any of my colleagues— that it is an 
 important communication. Mr. Healy expects me to go on the 
 Liverpool platform, and, on the strength of this Hawarden decla- 
 ration, to denounce Mr. Gladstone, and say ho is not a Grand 
 Old Man, and because, gentlemen, forsooth, within an hour after 
 receiving this Hawarden communication, I failed to do anything, 
 well, then I am held up to public odium as deceiving the good 
 citizens of Liverpool and deceiving this statesman, who I hoped 
 then would have done something for the cause of Ireland. My 
 responsibility was enormous. Was I, at a single stroke, without 
 either giving any time or opportunity to Mr. Gladstone to recon- 
 sider his position, to denounce him on account of a half-com- 
 pleted programme ? Surely the absurdity of this must bo patent 
 to every one. It does not require any words to show Mr. Healy 
 how ridiculous tho proposal is (hear, hear), that I, at Hawarden, 
 having received this communication, should at once go on tho 
 platform and denounce this old man on the strength that ho was 
 not going to cany out his Irish proposals. Remember, I had only 
 just received those proposals. I was not allowed to bring them
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. PARNELL. 71 
 
 before my colleagues. I was told that none of them were to be 
 taken as definite or final, and that the chief proposal of all — the 
 proposal that refers to the retention of 30 members — was the pro- 
 posal which might be subject to further revision. In any case it 
 was not a question of drafting a private Bill. It was a question 
 of dealing with a gentleman much my senior to whom I was bound 
 to pay every reverence and courtesy within limit. But as to 
 appealing to a meeting which contained some of his own sup- 
 porters, that is a very poor ground for asking you to vote for my 
 deposition. Now, then, I want to ask Mr. Healy a further ques- 
 tion, but perhaps I ought not to be too personal — I want to ask 
 you all a further question. I want to ask you, before you vote 
 my deposition, to be sure that you are getting value for it. 
 (Cheers.) On Saturday night I made a proposal to Mr. Justin 
 M'Carthy. I was anxious to keep this proposal from the news- 
 papers. I do not know now that I ought to give it to the news- 
 papers, but I do not see how it is to be prevented. 
 
 Mr. John O'Connor. — It was in the papers on Sunday 
 morning. 
 
 Mr. John Redmond. — It was in the papers the next morning, 
 however it got there. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — The proposal was this. There is a difference 
 of recollection between Mr. Gladstone and myself with regard to 
 the statements that were made in this Hawarden conversation. 
 You all admit — and this is the misery of it — we are all agreed 
 that you will not have this Bill. (Mr. Condon.—" Hear, hear," 
 and loud cheers.) There has not been a man to say a word in 
 favour of this Bill. But are you sure that you will be able to get 
 anything better 1 Can Mr. Healy say you will be able to get any- 
 thing better ? Can Mr. Justin M'Carthy say it 1 Can Mr. Sextou 
 say it ? If they can say it, for God's sake let them say it, and I 
 will not stand for a moment in the way. (Loud cheers.) What 
 was the proposal that was made? Will Mr. Gladstone, Sir 
 William Harcourt, and Mr. Morley give to Mr. M'Carthy letters 
 declaring that, in the event of the return of the Liberal party to 
 power, a Home Rule Bill be proposed under which the control of 
 the Irish constabulary will be vested in an Irish executive respon- 
 sible to an Irish Parliament, and will they also include in the 
 same measure power to deal with and settle the Irish land ques- 
 tion, and that these provisions will be regarded as vital to the. 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dkc. 1. 
 
 72 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 T5ill ? Now Mr. M'Carthy went to Mr. Gladstone with these pro- 
 posals. I stated, heforo he went, that I would not communicate 
 with Mr. Gladstone; that Mr. Morley had pointed out to me, 
 through Mr. M'Carthy, that Mr. M'Carthy was the channel 
 through which all further communications were to ho made from 
 tho party to him. That was tho last communication I had from 
 Mr. Morley ; if thero were any further communications they were 
 to come through Mr. M'Carthy. I said, " Very well, then." 
 On Saturday night I said to Mr. M'Carthy, "Will you take 
 thoso communications to Mr. Gladstone — not from me, but from 
 the party, or from a section of tho party, or from yourself, and as 
 a matter for his consideration before this question comes up 
 again for decision ? And I assured Mr. M'Carthy that, although 
 it was not a matter that I desired to be put before Mr. Gladstone, 
 yet that if these two concessions were made I should retire from 
 public life as a matter of course. This was done on Saturday, 
 and Mr. Gladstone has replied that he will not hold any com- 
 munication with me as leader of the party. 
 
 Mu. M'Carthy.- No, no. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — He is perfectly welcome to that. Tho com- 
 munications wore also put before Sir William Harcourt, and his 
 roply, as I understand it, was that under no circumstances will 
 he give any promise whatever, cither now or hereafter, to 
 any Irish party ; and Sir William Harcourt, remember, is 
 the man whom you will have as your leader when Mr. Gladstone 
 dies. 
 
 Mr. Condon. — Not our leader. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Won't you 1 Mr. Morley will not deny that 
 this great man, Sir William Harcourt, whose chain you are going 
 to put about your necks, is the man who has the reversion of tho 
 Liboral leadership ; is the man who has declared that his limits 
 and ideas about Homo Rule are Mr. Chamberlain's scheme of 
 local government, and if Sir William Harcourt ever comes into 
 power he will give you local government and plenty of coercion. 
 (" Hear hoar" from Mr. Parnell 's supporters.) That is not from 
 Mr. Morley, but it is from myself. I know very well what Sir 
 William Harcourt will do for you, 1 know what Mr. Gladstono will 
 do for you, I know what Mr. Morley will do for you, and I know 
 that there is not a single ono of the lot to bo trusted unless you 
 trust yourselves. (Loud cheers.)
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT-MR. JUSTIN M'CARTHY. 73 
 
 " To thine own self be true ; 
 " And it must follow, as the night the day, 
 " Thou canst not then be false to any man." 
 That is what I have to saj' to the Irish party. If I am to leave 
 you to-night, I should like to leave you in security. I should 
 like — and it is not an unfair thing for me to ask— that I should 
 come within sight of this " promised land." (Loud and enthu- 
 siastic cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Justin M'Carthy said, — I do not intend to make any 
 lengthened speech on the general and main question before 
 you. I do not propose to endeavour to add to the arguments and 
 emotion which have been developed on the one side or on the other. 
 I only wish to make some statements of what went on within my 
 own knowledge, and which may make the situation a little more 
 clear to you, and that is in reference to what occurred on Satur- 
 day and Sunday, as far as I am concerned. On Saturday, at 
 a hastily-summoned meeting of some friends of our chairman 
 — amongst whom I was glad and pleased and proud to be 
 reckoned — I had unexpectedly the office thrust on me of going 
 to Mr. Gladstone and endeavouring to reopen the negotiations 
 that had been going on. I shall tell you — and Mr. Parnell will 
 bear me out in this — that I myself strongly and repeatedly 
 objected to undertake any mission. I said that I did not think 
 it good under any circumstances or under any conditions, and 
 I told them I considered it was not wise and in any event not 
 worthy of;the Irish party to send any letter to any English states- 
 man whatever to get from him any promise that involved the 
 resignation of the chairman of the party. I told Mr. .Parnell and 
 the meeting that I would be strongly opposed to bearing a message 
 of that kind to Mr. Gladstone, or to any English statesman what- 
 ever, if it involved the resignation, not of Mr. Parnell but even of 
 the youngest and most obscure member of the Irish Parliamentary 
 party. I urged that our quarrels amongst ourselves were for our- 
 selves and for our own party and our own nation, and that we 
 ought not to place ourselves at the feet of any English statesman, 
 however great or however well-meaning towards us. (Loud cheers.) 
 I think I was wrong now in yielding to the strong pressure brought 
 to bear on me by friends in that room. There was one strong 
 appeal made to me by a respected colleague, who said, in earnest 
 tones, that he believed that I would be deserting my duty if I left 
 
 DEC!. 1.
 
 Dkc. 1. 
 
 74 MEETINC4S OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 the least stone unturnod in the way of reconciliation by going to 
 Mr. Gladstone. Under that pressure I consented to go. I shall 
 tell you in the briefest form what occurred. The names of three 
 men were mentioned — Mr. Gladstone, Sir William Harcourt, and 
 Mr. Morley. I did not succeed in seeing Mr. Morley. I saw 
 Mr. Gladstone and Sir William Harcourt. Mr. Gladstone had 
 talked to me before and talked to me since about tho difference of 
 recollection between himself and Mr. Parnell as to points of agree- 
 ment and disagreement at Ha warden. He still adhered to his 
 declaration that Mr. Parnell's impression of what he (Mr. 
 Gladstone) said on that occasion was absolutely mistaken. On 
 thoso two or three important points mentioned by Mr. Parnell 
 Mr. Gladstone adheres to the declaration that Mr. Parnell is 
 absolutely mistaken. He adheres to his declaration that Mr. 
 Parnell and he parted in general agreement as to the basis of 
 a Home Rule measure, and that there was not one word more of 
 difference between them than there would be between two of tho 
 closest colleagues in planning out a measure as to which they had 
 not agreed about the details. We now come to the offers I was 
 pressed by my friends and pressed by Mr. Parnell to make to 
 Mr. Gladstone. It is perfectly true that Mr. Parnell told me that 
 he would not enter into any communication himself with Mr. 
 Gladstone. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I did not say that on account of any personal 
 foaling or hurt on my own part, but I did so after the statement in 
 the Daily News that Mr. Gladstone communicated with you, 
 and that he had declined to see me. 
 
 Mr. M'Cartiiy. — That is a question of pure misunderstand- 
 ing. I never heard that Mr. Gladstone refused to see you. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — You came down with Mr. Sexton to the smoko 
 room, and he said, " Won't you see Mr. Gladstone to-night ?'' 
 
 Mr. M'Cartiiy.— I never saw Mr. Gladstone myself at that 
 time. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — It was a mere suggestion on my part, thinking 
 it might lead to a healing measure. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I thought you would not ask me to soo Mr. 
 Gladstone except you were directed to do so. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — It was a mere suggestion on my part. I merely 
 said, " Would it not be well to see Mr. Gladstone V 
 
 Mr. M'Cartiiy.— I went down to tho smoke room with Mr.
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. JUSTIN M'CARTHY. 75 
 
 Sexton, but till Mr. Parnell mentioned this, i never heard a 
 word about Mr. Gladstone refusing to see him. We come now to 
 what Mr. Gladstone said about this document. He said, in the 
 first instance, that he did not feel himself entitled to interfere in 
 any way in any discussions of the Irish party. For bim Ireland 
 was represented by the Irish party, the Irish party was repre- 
 sented by the elected leader of the party, and for him there was, 
 therefore, no one but the elected leader of the Irish party with 
 whom he could feel himself entitled to negotiate. He regretted 
 the condition of things that made us disorganized for the time, 
 but he said he could not regard me as representing in any sense 
 the Irish party. I had, in fact, told him that, apart from our 
 communication, I did not represent the party ; that I could not 
 profess to represent the party ; that I came from no meeting of 
 the party, but that I came from a number of friends, hastily 
 assembled, who thought it would be a good thing for the country 
 if I made this statement to Mr. Gladstone. Under these con- 
 ditions Mr. Gladstone said he could offer no suggestion, sign no 
 document, and give no message for me to convey to the Irish 
 party ; but he furthermore added that in any case, and sup- 
 posing it were possible for him to enter into any such arrange- 
 ment, he could not sign that document and give it to me with 
 any certainty that it might not be used in print by any of those 
 concerned in it. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I did not even want to see the document. I 
 merely wanted your assurance that it had been given. 
 
 Mr. M'Carthy. — I never understood 1 was to get a document, 
 and that Mr. Parnell was to know nothing about it, or that Mr. 
 Parnell was not .to make up his mind about resigning before he 
 knew what came from Mr. Gladstone. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I only wanted your word. 
 
 Mr. M'Carthy.— Does any one believe I would undertake 
 that responsibility, that I would go to Mr. Gladstone and procure 
 a document, that I would go to Mr. Jfarnell and say " the docu- 
 ment is all right," and that on my mere word Mr. Parnell would 
 resign his leadership ; that I would go to the party and say, " I 
 have received a telegram from Mr. Gladstone, the contents of 
 which I could not tell Mr. Parnell, but which induced Mr. Parnell 
 to resign " ? If any member thinks I would do that, then he puts 
 little store on my experience, on my common sense or friendly 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 76 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY . 
 
 feelings to Mr. Parnell, and on my patriotism. (Cheers.) As to 
 Sir William Harconrt, ho did not say and did not suggest that he 
 would not make any promise of any kind to any Irish member. 
 Ho said that, undor the condition of the manifesto issuod by Mr. 
 Pamell, which he said he bolioved to bo a conversation to bo kept 
 iu tho most absolute secrecy, ho would not give me or anybody 
 else any assurance in writing or by word of month that was to be 
 brought in any way undor the notice of Mr. Parnell. Ho said 
 almost nothing about tho general question, but he said not a word 
 to mo that meant to convey that he would not enter into any 
 arrangement with any Irish party or any member whatever. That 
 is my story about these negotiations — I cannot help calling them 
 tho unfortunate negotiations, which I undertook most reluctantly — 
 and only undertook when a last appeal was made to me not to 
 neglect my duty by leaving any stone unturned that might load 
 to a settlement of this terrible question. Now as to the general 
 question. I do think that Mr. Parnell has made too little of the 
 error committed by keeping private till now the conversation 
 between him and Mr. Gladstone at Hawarden. 
 
 Mb. Parnell. — I am perfectly willing to admit that I was to 
 blame in that, but I am glad I have told it all now before tho 
 mischief was done. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. M'Cartiiy. — I only give my view now as to what I think 
 an Irish leader should have done. You possessed a secret almost 
 vital to tho cause of your country. Supposing it were so, you go 
 about the world with this secret at your heart, and see 3'our party 
 and your country sliding down to this precipice, and, because you 
 had taken a pledge of privacy, you say you could not disclose it. 
 That is a pledge I could not have accepted on any condition 
 whatsoever. But supposo I had accepted it, and was bound in 
 that terrible silence, 1 was not bound to go on the platform and 
 commend Mr. Gladstone. (Cheers.) I was not bound to allow my 
 countrymen here, and in Scotland, and in Ireland, as well as in 
 America and Australia, to go about glorifying Mr. Gladstono 
 while I know in my heart of hearts that Mr. Gladstone's purposo 
 was, if he could, to betray the Irish cause and the Irish people. 
 (Cheers.) But, supposing I had felt that terrible bond of silence, 
 that seal as rigid as the seal of tho confessional itself, pressing 
 on me, would I havo broken that seal of confession for tho sake of 
 publishing a manifesto under any conceivable condition of public
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. JOHN O'CONNOR. 77 
 
 affairs ? (Cheers.) If that agreement was ever to be known, the 
 time of making it known was when it might have been of great 
 service by warning Irishmen against false friends, and not at a 
 moment when, after concealing it so long from the party, a mani- 
 festo was sprung upon the party and country. Speaking for my- 
 self, the whole transaction seems to me to have betrayed from 
 the beginning a vital error of judgment. (Mr. Parnell, " Hear, 
 hear.") Many of the remarks made about small inconsistencies 
 are not worth serious and solemn consideration ; but I think that 
 was an inconsistency which, in my mind, imperilled, and must 
 always imperil, your leadership and your capacity for leadership 
 and work. (Cheers.) I think some of us should have known 
 something about it. That secret, borne about so long and revealed 
 at the wrong time, does so weaken one's confidence in the judg- 
 ment of our leader that I cannot see any hope, if the present 
 arrangement of the party should last, that the cause of the country 
 is to be served and saved. 
 
 Mn. John O'Connor. — Mr. Chairman, I have listened with 
 very great attention, as the case demanded, to the speeches 
 which have been delivered by your opponents. Those speeches 
 appear to me to place your supporters at this meeting in a false 
 light before the world. (Cries of " Hear, hear," and " No, no.") 
 It has been held up to this meeting that, if we vote for you, we 
 vote against the country. I entirely deny the accuracy of that 
 statement. (Cheers.) I think I may claim for those who will 
 vote for your leadership to-day as strong a desire to act in 
 accordance with the interests of the country as the other side 
 claim for themselves, and as I am willing to accord to them. 
 I think that the reading of those resolutions at the early stage 
 of our meeting, which came from Irishmen assembled in Ireland, 
 England, and Scotland, show that those who support your 
 leadership to-day are in accord with the country in this matter. 
 Almost all the telegrams and letters conveying to us the opinions 
 of our fellow-countrjmien at home and abroad in meeting 
 assembled have, with two or three exceptions, called upon this 
 meeting to support j-our leadership. (Cheers.) Our people at 
 home act upon the principle initiated by Mr. Healy at the 
 Leinster Hall, when he said, "We gained our present position 
 by independence, and by independence and independence alone 
 we can maintain it." (Cheers and counter cheers.) The young 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 78 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 mon of Ireland met in Young Ireland's Society, and in the 
 organization you, Sir, have .created, have sent their message 
 hero to this meeting in tones almost unanimous in support of 
 you, and those who will vote for your leadership. They know 
 well what the condition was in the past. The young men of 
 Ireland know that you have reconciled the conflicting elements 
 in which you found Irish politics when you became our guide 
 and our leader, and they feel that, once your guiding 
 hand is romoved, once your cementing genius is withdrawn, 
 Irish politics will resolve themselves again into those conflicting 
 elements. (Hear, hear.) We are askod to vote you, Sir, out of 
 the leadership of this party and nation on the ground that 
 there is danger to the •alliance between the Liboral party of 
 England and the Irish peoplo. I entirely traverse that opinion. 
 I believe there is no fear for that alliance, and I have 
 reason to believe it. 1 have been upon many plat- 
 forms in England sinco the verdict was given in the case 
 that was the origin of all our trouble, and local leaders 
 upon thoso platforms, addressing meetings variously com- 
 posed — some composed entirely of working men, and some 
 of peoplo living in the suburbs of groat cities — have stated 
 that no matter what any man might do, no matter what might 
 occur to any man in the future, they had been working and 
 striving for Homo Rule for the Irish people, and they would con- 
 tinue to do so, and that nothing in the world would alter their 
 opinions in that respect. That was the expression givon from 
 local leaders — men who in their own localities were considered 
 saints and leaders and guides — and these expressions 'of opinion 
 wero applauded to the- echo by the audiences to whom they were 
 addressed. That, Sir, is my experience. I have read the 
 speech of Earl Spencer wherein he in unmistakablo terms stated 
 what bo wished you to do in order to solvo this problem. He 
 stated ho personally wished that you, Sir, might retire from the 
 leadership of the Irish party. He added that in tho event of 
 your retaining tho leadership their plain and simple duty as 
 leaders was to stick to the principle of Homo Rule. (Cheers.) 
 That statemont was mado at a large meeting and was applauded 
 to the echo, and if tho Liberal newspapers of this country and tho 
 Libera] leaders of this country had only the harkbono of Earl 
 Spencer tho English peoplo would have remained true to that
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. W. REDMOND. 70 
 
 opinion. (Hear, hear.) Let ns remember that this alliance that 
 has been spoken of was formed at a time when yon, Sir, were 
 charged with conniving at murder, and when every man here 
 was charged with some crime in connexion with the agitation in 
 Ireland, and these accusations were not considered a bar to that 
 alliance. (Hear, hoar.) I have no hesitation in saying that, if 
 we show that independence which the Irish people have unmis- 
 takably shown, there is no danger to that alliance, and that it 
 will be stronger if in this great and important crisis the Irish 
 people and their representatives remain true to the independent 
 principles that have guided them in the past. What are we 
 asked to do to-day 1 We are asked to go back upon the past 
 history and traditions of the Irish people, to step down from the 
 proud position of an ancient nation and become the mere tail of 
 an English party, to be wagged by the will of its head. (Laughter 
 and " Hear,' hear.") When you, Sir, asked me to join this 
 party, I joined it as an Irish Nationalist, and I shall continue to 
 belong to this party only so long as it is an Irish Nationalist party. 
 (Loud cheers.) I shall cease to be a member of it when it 
 becomes a mere tail of an English party. (Renewed cheering.) 
 These are the reasons which will guide me in supporting you in 
 that .position from which you have taught the Irish people to 
 respect themselves, from which you have taught the world to 
 wonder at and admire you. These are the reasons for which I 
 vote that you retain that position to-day. 
 
 Mr. T. O'Hanlon supported the amendment, and claimed that 
 all the Irish members should have time to consult their consti- 
 tuents, as they ought to be guided by them in voting on this 
 matter. He believed that those men who were about to vote for 
 their leader's destruction were those whom Mr. Parnell had 
 brought from obscurity and placed in the position which they 
 now;occupied. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mk. W. Redmond also supported the amendment. He alluded 
 to Mr. Parnell's great services to the Irish cause in the past, and 
 argued that among the Liberals of England and Scotland there 
 was not the outcry for Mr. Parnell's expulsion which some 
 parties were anxious to represent. He himself had addressed a 
 large number of meetings in England, and he believed he was 
 right in saying that the circumstances which had led up to the 
 meeting would only prove a mere temporary check to the Irish 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Deo. 1. 
 
 80 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 causo (cheers), and that those men who at present were impressed 
 with the justice of Ireland's claims would now put them aside 
 simply because of a personal matter affecting one man. He 
 maintained that Mr. Gladstone would never have brought forward 
 a Home Rule Bill, only that he had been forced to do so by Mr. 
 Parnell, and in conclusion he earnestly asked them to postpone 
 this important question until the proposition which hud been 
 made by Mr. Parnell to Mr. Gladstono had been either accepted 
 or rejected. 
 
 Mr. Pierce Mahon v said a great deal of capital had been made 
 out of that portion of Mr. Parnell's manifesto referring to the 
 Hawarden interview. Ho (Mr. Mahony) did not hold with those 
 who said there was a breach of confidence involved in making 
 public that interview. He was glad that there was a unanimous 
 feeling at the meeting that the Home Rule Bill shadowed forth in 
 that interview would not be accepted by the Irish party. 
 
 Dr. Kenny thought the delegates in America, had they listened 
 to Mr. Parnell's touching appeal, would not have joined in any 
 cry of " A la lanterne." He was convinced that had they known 
 of tho offer made to Mr. Gladstone which now placed on his back 
 the burden, they would have entertained a different opinion. Mr, 
 Darnell was reproached with two things. One was that he held 
 his peace when the bond of secrecy was placed on his lips and 
 that he did not go forthwith to tho nearest platform and proclaim 
 the terms of the Home Rule Bill. On the other hand he was ro- 
 proached that, when this miserable ghost of a Bill was being 
 dangled before thoieyes of_ Ireland to win votes from him, ho then 
 under. the stress of circumstances declared the terms of that Bill. 
 They were now discussing the dictum of a statesman who said to 
 them, "Throw away your leader or you will take the conse- 
 quences . " It was a hypocritical cry and clamour got up by tho 
 old women of both sexes in this country to " bulldoso " tho 
 Liberal party and Ireland. He urged a further delay and time 
 for consideration. Precipitancy had landed them into that 
 morass and precipitancy would not get them out of it. By delay 
 they could communicate more fully with tho delegates in 
 America. 
 
 Dr. Tanner.- Read their letter. 
 
 Tho Chairman. — Order. Who is interrupting.
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— DR. KENNY. 81 
 
 Dr. Tanner. — I spoke, Sir ; I wish their communication to bo 
 read. 
 
 The Chairman. — I must ask you to resume your seat, Dr. 
 Tanner. 
 
 Dr. Tanner.— I have done so. 
 
 Dr. Kenny, continuing, said that if they were guilty of such a 
 suicidal act as to get rid of their leader they would have nothing 
 but uncertainty before them. 
 
 Mr. J. Nolan spoke next, and declared that the question could 
 not be settled by the prominent men of the party, nor by the people 
 in Ireland, but it was one to be settled by the Irish race. He 
 referred to the number of votes of confidence that had been passed 
 in Mr. Parnell since the recent case, and he referred to the 
 speech made by Mr. Healy in the Leinster Hall, which concluded 
 with the impressive words in reference to Mr. Parnell, " Don't 
 speak to the man at the wheel." (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Edward Harrington, interrupting, said, — No ; but cut 
 his throat. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. J. Nolan, continuing, said that at the meeting of the 
 party on Tuesday last Mr. Sexton had declared that Mr. Parnell's 
 leadership was essential to the existence of the party. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — I said it appeared to me at that time that course 
 was best calculated to preserve the unity of the party. On the 
 following day I thought, however, the question of the cause of 
 Ireland came in. 
 
 Mr. J. Nolan said he accepted the correction, but he thought 
 Mr. Sexton had said that in obedience to self-preservation, the 
 first law of nature, they should elect Mr, Parnell. 
 
 The Chairman.— I think Mr. Sexton said I was the only man 
 fitted to lead the part} r . 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — I said I thought Mr. Parnell more likely to con- 
 serve the unity of the party than any -individual «oi' group of 
 individuals. 
 
 Colonel Nolan. — I think Mr. Sexton said nearly everything 
 possible, because I know he left me nothing to say. (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. J. Nolan said it had been boasted there that the Irish 
 people supported Mr. Parnell even in opposition to the Pope. 
 Were they now going to resign him at the crack of the Glad- 
 stonian whip ? (Cheers.) He would support Mr. Parnell. 
 
 Mr. J. C. Flynn declared that -though the members ]of the 
 
 F 
 
 Dec. 1.
 
 Dkc. 1. 
 
 82 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 party had rallied round Mr. Parnell at the last meeting they 
 would now rally round their country as between Mr. Parnell and 
 Mr. Gladstone. He would support Mr. Parnell against a 
 thousand Gladstones ; he would not support him against his 
 country or what he believed to bo the interests of his country. 
 Some of them had been spoken of as catspaws, but he claimed 
 for those on his side of the question, who differed with the 
 greatest regret from their beloved chief, that they were no moro 
 catspaws than those who supported him. But he would now 
 suggest that there had been enough debate. (" Hear, hear," and 
 " No, no.") 
 
 Mr. John Redmond.— Closure, closure ! Wo have had no 
 debate at all. 
 
 Mr. Flynn said he did not intend to movo the closure, but he 
 only intended to bring forward an argument. The discussion 
 which had taken place had put them in possession of the facts of 
 the case. 
 
 Sir Joseph M'Kenna supported the amendment, and expressed 
 his strong approval of Mr. ParnelPs continued leadership. 
 
 Mr. E. Harrington alluded to what ho described as a con- 
 spiracy of silenco on the part of those who were anxious that 
 Mr. Parnell should be deposed, and ascribed their silence to the 
 fact that they wero anxious to decapitate their chief that very 
 night. He was aware that many membors present wero pledged 
 to their Liberal friends, who were in the corridor outside waiting 
 for the " Noes " from their friends inside, who were determined 
 to have their leader out dead or alive. 
 
 Mr. Sheeiiy spoke strongly in favour of Mr. Parnell's retire- 
 ment. He accused Mr. Parnell of having acted unfaithfully 
 towards the evicted tenants by not divulging what he knew of the 
 Hawarden interview for such a long time. Why did he not 
 divulgo it 12 months ago, when a good deal of the sacrifices that 
 had since been made wouldnot have been necessary. It was only 
 recently that any effort was made to help those tenants. 
 
 Mr. Parnell (warmly). —Who made the plan ? Whose brain 
 planned it ? Who got the hundred thousand pounds last year for 
 the Irish tenants, and devised the plan by which it was 
 obtained ? 
 
 Mr. Sexton.— As Mr. Parnell asks the question, I may say it 
 was 1 who suggested the plan to him. (Cheers.)
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT. 83 
 
 Mr. Parnell denied that statement. 
 
 Mu. Pinkeeton expressed himself as against Mr. Parnell's 
 continued leadership, the manifesto having caused him to como 
 to that opinion. 
 
 Mr. Conway denied that any harm could bo done to Home 
 Rule by Mr. Parnell's continued leadership. He referred to a 
 statement which, ho said, Mr. Sexton made on the journey from 
 Dublin to London prior to the opening of Parliament, to the effect 
 that Mr. Gladstone was about to issue a manifesto that he should 
 retire from public life unless Mr. Parnell was thrown over. 
 
 Mr. Sexton (interrupting) declared upon his solemn word of 
 honour that he never made such a statement. 
 
 Mr. Conway repeated that the statement was made in the pre- 
 sence of himself and other members of the party, and that this 
 was one of the circumstances which showed the conspiracy 
 which was on foot against their leader. He made a stiong attack 
 upon Mr. T. M. Healy for his inconsistency in supporting Mr. 
 Parnell in Dublin a fortnight ago and now seeking to hunt him 
 from public life. Why did not Mr. Healy support him now ? 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy. — Because he is useless for any purpose. 
 (Cries of " Oh.") 
 
 Mr. Conway. — There is life in the old dog yet. (Loud cheers.) 
 He concluded his speech by appealing to his colleagues not to 
 suborn themselves to any English party. 
 
 Mr. Knox said he did not think that under the circumstances 
 they could complain of the issue of Mr. Gladstone's letter. Mr. 
 Gladstone might have been in the past a coercionist, but he had 
 at heart the Irish cause. He was an old man now, and knowing 
 he could not be spared for many years he felt that if Mr. Parnell 
 refused to retire all his latter daj-s would be useless. 
 
 Dr. Fitzgerald strongly supported Mr. Parnell's leadership. 
 
 Mr. J. H. M'Carthy said he came into Parliament under the 
 leadership of Mr. Parnell six years ago, and during that time to 
 the best of his ability he had helped Mr. Parnell. Ireland 
 during that time had passed through a course of serious diffi- 
 culties conducted by Mr. Parnell, who had shown them that he 
 could carry them through the present difficulty, and under these 
 circumstances he (Mr. M'Carthy) had made up his mind that his 
 only course was to give his vote to Mr. Parnell. 
 
 Mr. Leamy said that Mr. Sexton, in the course of his speech, 
 
 f— 2 
 
 Eec. 1.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 81 MEETINGS OF THE IKISH PARTY. 
 
 stated that Ireland was distracted, and that if some issuo was 
 provided it in the matter in dispute, it would bring some chance 
 of joy to the nation. He asked whether there was any man in the 
 assembly who would stand up and declare that if the result of 
 their deliberations was that Mr. Parnell were ousted from the 
 leadership the result would be received with joy in Ireland. 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Webb urged that the Irish party were not actuated by per- 
 sonal motives. He should vote for the discontinuance of Mr. 
 Painell's leadership, and ho did so in the interests of Ireland. 
 
 Mr. Chance, in expressing the same intention, remarked that 
 he was not a prominent member of the party or one of its great 
 debating members. 
 Mr. Campbell.— Yoii are a dishonest one. 
 Mr. Healy rose to order. 
 
 Mr. Campbell.— I know that he is a dishonest man for this 
 
 reason, he has been intriguing and wire-pulling, Mr. Parnell, 
 
 against your leadership in Kilkenny for the last three or four days. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. -1 think, Mr. Campbell, you should withdraw 
 
 the expression. 
 
 Mr. Campbell.— I will not withdraw. 
 
 Several members asked Mr. Campbell to withdraw the remark, 
 and he thon consented to do so in obedience to the general views 
 of his friends. 
 
 Mr. Plane pointed out that they had been sitting for 11 hours, 
 and he therefore, he said, would move an adjournment. 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— The question is " That this debate do now 
 adjourn." As many as are of that opinion say "Ay." (Cries of 
 " Ay.") I declare that the " Ayes " have it. 
 
 Mr. Healy complained that the other side had not been asked 
 whether they agreed. 
 
 Mr. Parnell (rising). — The adjournment has been cairied. 
 Mr. T. Healy.— I move that Mr. M'Carthy take the chair. 
 (Loud cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— I have not left the chair yet. 
 Mr. Healy. — Thon put the question. Mr. Parnell. 
 Mr. Parnell. — I have put the question. 
 Mr. Healy. — You have not. 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— I am not going to have my ruling challenged 
 by Mr. Healy.
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— ADJOURNMENT. 85 
 
 After some other remarks Mr. Parnell again put the question, Dec 
 when the majority appeared to be in favour of continuing the 
 debate, and therefore Mr. Parnell said that the discussion must 
 proceed. 
 
 Mr. Healy said that a division should be taken, as one had 
 been challenged. 
 
 Mr. Condon and Mr. Sexton said it was not necessary. 
 
 Mr. E. Harrington and Mr. John REDMOND.said that at such 
 an advanced hour it was almost physically and mentally impos- 
 sible to continue the debate, and they suggested an adjournment 
 till the following day. 
 
 Messrs. Clancy, O'Kelly, and Byrne proposed the ad- 
 journment of the debate. 
 
 Mr. T. Healy said he would agree to an adjournment on the 
 understanding that the debate would terminate the next day. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Do not have any understanding with him. 
 
 Mr T. Healy. — It is very hard to have any understanding 
 with Mr. Parnell. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Do not be dictating terms to me. 
 
 Mr. Healy said he wanted to have an understanding that 
 the next day another adjournment would not be asked for. 
 
 At this point Mr. Sexton interposed, asking that in the 
 interests of unity and good feeling the adjournment should be 
 agreed to. 
 
 The meeting was ultimately adjourned until 12 o'clock on 
 the following day, Tuesday, December 2. 
 
 MEETING OF THE IRISH PARTY— FOURTH DAY— DIVISION. 
 
 The meeting of the Irish Parliamentary party, which adjourned 
 at 10 minutes to 12 on the night of Monday, December 1, was re- 
 sumed at noon on Tuesday, December 2. Mr. Parnell was the 
 first to arrive, just before noon, and he was soon followed by the 
 whole of the members who were present on Monday. The fol- 
 lowing account of the proceedings has been officially supplied : — 
 
 Mr. Parnell took the chair, and at the outset a number of let- 
 ters and telegrams, addressed to Mr. Parnell and members of the 
 party, were read. This occupied a considerable time. 
 
 At 20 minutes to 1 Mr. J. F. X. O'Brien moved that business 
 be proceeded with. 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 86 MEETINGS OF THE IHISH PARTY. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — We will read first tho telograms that have been 
 received in the meantime. If :iny members have received tele- 
 grams from public bodies in Ireland, they should be read. I 
 noticod that a great many telegrams had come in. The members 
 who received them should hand them in to the chair to be read. 
 
 Mit. Barry. — I move that tho communication from our col- 
 leagues in America be read. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Yes, as soon as I rocoivo it. If you wish to 
 have it read I shall have it road. I do not think I have oven read 
 it myself. 
 
 Mr. John O'Connor. — I have not read it either. 
 
 Mr. Sexton.— It will be found, Mr. Parnell, in any of the 
 morning papers. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Have you been able to find this communica- 
 tion yet, Mr. Barry 1 
 
 Mr. Barry. --It is in the morning papers. 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy. — I understand that yesterday you ruled, 
 when Mr. Sexton wished to read a communication from the Bishop 
 of Sligo, that the dobate should not be interrupted. I object to 
 the dobate being interrupted now for anything except tho Ameri- 
 can delegates' telegram. 
 
 Mr. John O'Connor. — Surely you are not afraid of Irish 
 opinion. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy. — We want definite rulings, and thoso rulings 
 adhered to. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I have made no rulings to-day contrary to my 
 rulings yesterday. You might as well have said that prayers 
 should not be read before the meetings of the House during an in- 
 terrupted dobate. 
 
 Mr. Henry Campbell then read the American delegates' mes- 
 sage from ono of tho morning papers. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — There is a passago in this that I ought to refer 
 to now. They say, " So painfully alive wero wo to all that might 
 be involved in tho loss of such a leader, that we eagerly co- 
 operated with our colleagues in every effort to retain his influence 
 in our councils." I wish to know whether that refers to commu- 
 nications made to them since the issue of Mr. Gladstone's de- 
 mand for my resignation, or before it. There have been state- 
 ments made, I know not on what authority, that communica- 
 tions have boon made to Mr. Dillon — more than one communica-
 
 COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE AMERICAN DELEGATES. 87 
 
 tion — and communications independently of those sanctioned by 
 the meeting of the party, and I think we ought to have all these 
 communications before us. (Cheers.) If it be true that any com- 
 munications have been made to Messrs. Dillon and O'Brien, ex- 
 cept the communication which was sanctioned by the party since 
 its first meeting on the Tuesday, then I think we should have 
 those communications before .us 'and know by whom they were 
 made, whether by individual members, the chairman of the party, 
 or other persons. The only communication of which I had a 
 knowledge was a telegram, or rather two telegrams, one sanctioned 
 by the party, from Mr. Richard Power, giving the division and a 
 statement as to my view of the responsibility of my position, and 
 another one, which I sent them myself, asking them to refrain 
 from expressing any opinion until they had seen my manifesto. 
 But I think, before we can come to any judgment as to the weight 
 to be attached to this announcement, that we ought to know what 
 communications were made to them by members of the party. 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Dr. Kenny. — T beg to say, Sir. I sent a wire from Dublin exclu- 
 sively on my own account, carefully guarding myself against 
 giving any expression but my own individual opinion on the status 
 quo. I used the words " individual opinion," so that there could 
 be no misconception. I do not think there was any violation of 
 any rule in doing that. I thought I was perfectly justified in 
 doing it, as I think any member of the party would be. I cannot 
 trust my memory to repeat the words, but the message ran this 
 way : — " My individual opinion is that our salvation is retention 
 of Mr. Pamell in the chair." I carefully guarded myself by say- 
 ing that I expressed no other opinion but my own. If I did 
 wrong I regret it, but at the same time I think that it was a 
 legitimate thing to do, and that I have nothing to be ashamed 
 of. 
 
 Mb. Justin M'Caethy. — I rise to say one word, in consequence 
 of an absurd statement in several papers to-day, that I telegraphed 
 to John Dillon conveying him some message. I have not tele- 
 graphed to any of our friends in America ever since this discussion 
 began, on any matter whatever. (Hear, hear.) The statement is 
 so absurd that I should hardly have spoken, but to allow even so 
 ridiculous a rumour at this time to go forth would be to create a 
 prejudice. I know of no communications made to our friends in 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 88 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 America, except those officially published and the one I havo just 
 hoard of from Dr. Kenny. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Barry. — I shall be in the recollection of the meeting that 
 on Wednesday last it was resolved that the Whips of tho party 
 should send an official messago to our colleagues in America, and 
 Dr. Commins and myself, tho mover and seconder, should seethe 
 telogram before it was sont. When the meeting was over I went 
 to Mr. Richard Power, and I said, "What about the telegram ?" 
 Ho ropliod, "Oh, we will send it to-morrow." I said it was a 
 grave matter of importance, and that tho telegram should be sent 
 immediately, and I asked Mr. Power to be kind enough to draft 
 the telegram. Ho drafted the telegram, which I hold in my hand. 
 Ho then handed me the telegram and asked me how it would do. 
 It read : — " Meeting adjourned till Monday." 
 
 Mu. Parnell — I have seen it. 
 
 Mr. Barry. — Let me read it : — " Meeting adjourned till Mon- 
 day. Sexton, M'Caithy, Arthur O'Connor, Barry, Commins, 
 Sheehy, Dickson, Webb, Flynn, spoke in favour of Parnell 
 reconsidering position. Colonel Nolan, Blane, Conway, W. 
 Macdonald, Huntly M'Carthy, and Dr. Kenny supported 
 Parnell." Mr. Power left me with the message in the lobby, 
 and went, I thought, into the House, I thought ho had left 
 me only for a moment. I waited in the lobby for an hour, but 
 as Mr. Power did not return I felt there was some misunder- 
 standing. Mr. Power did not say anything to me about sending 
 the telegram, but he simply placed it in my hands. I waited for 
 fully an hour, and everybody had left the lobby of the House. I 
 thon proceeded to the telegraph office and forwarded this tele- 
 gram to Mr. Gill, Fifth Avenue Hotel, New York. I have since 
 ascertained Mr. Power sent a second telegram with your know- 
 ledge and sanction. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — And at my request. 
 
 Mr. Barry. — I submit that it was understood and arranged 
 by the party that any telegram sent in an official sense by tho 
 party should be submitted to the mover and seconder of the re- 
 solution, and I protest against any other course being adopted in 
 regard to the second telegram. 
 
 Mu. Parnell. — You had bettor hear what the telegram is. 
 
 Mr. Barry. — I say hero was an arrangement arrived at by tho 
 party, and surely the party is ontitlcd to some consideration, and
 
 COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE AMERICAN DELEGATES. 89 
 
 it was a reasonable proposal that the mover and seconder should 
 see any telegram that was sent. 
 
 Mr. Campbell. — Only one Whip sent it ; the other was not 
 consulted. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I think it is rather comical your objecting to 
 Mr. Power sending a telegram containing an addition to your 
 telegram, when you had framed this telegram behind my back and 
 sent it on your own authority admittedly, without the authority 
 of the Whip. (Cheers, and cries of " No, no.") 
 
 Mr. Barry. — Let us have this matter set right. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — It appears it was not the Whip of the 
 party who sent the telegram, but you ; and it was sent before I 
 had an opportunity of seeing it. I say that mere ordinary 
 courtesy should have dictated to Mr. Barry's mind the necessity 
 of showing the telegram before it was sent. 
 
 Mr. Barry then explained that Mr. Power framed the telegram 
 and asked him to send it ; but a second official telegram was sent 
 by Mr. Power, which he himself thought ought to have been sub- 
 mitted to the mover and seconder of the resolution. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — We explained why the second telegram was 
 sent, which has caused such wrath on the part of Mr. Barry. 
 
 Mr. Richard Power. — Mr. Barry has made rather too much 
 about these telegrams, and I will briefly state exactly what did 
 occur. When I left the room here I met Mr. Deasy, and I said 
 to him that we should consult together about this telegram. Mr. 
 Deasy said he would be satisfied with any telegram I would 
 send. That was as regards the second telegram. As regards the 
 first telegram, I say I perfectly agree with Mr. Barry. I must say 
 I objected to putting the names in, but Mr. Barry objected to 
 taking them out, and said it would be very unfair if the names 
 were not put in. He was supported in that view by two other 
 gentlemen, whose names I do not remember. I betrayed a little 
 weakness, and very wrongly sent it without seeing Mr. Parnell, 
 who had left the House. As regards the second telegram, I met 
 Mr. Parnell in the lobby, and he said he wanted to speak to me. 
 
 Mr. Barry. — Excuse me, you intended I should send the 
 telegram. 
 
 Mr. R. Power. — Certainly, but I protested against the names 
 being put in. 
 
 Mr. Barry. — You finally agreed to the names going in. 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 90 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Mr. E. Harrington. — My name was left out. 
 
 Mr. R. Power. — For the sake of harmony and peace I agreed 
 to that, and told Mr. Barry that he might send the telegram if he 
 liked, and I left him there in the hall. As regards the second 
 telegram, Mr. Parnell asked mo had I sent the telegram ? I said 
 1 had, and he said, very proporly, that 1 had no right to send it 
 without showing it to him. I had no right to send it ; I take all 
 the responsibility. But Mr. Parnell said " You should now send 
 the following telegram ; it is only fair to me you should state 
 exactly what occurred at the meeting." The second telegram was, 
 " Mr. Parnell refuses to reconsider his determination," and, I 
 think, " refuses to retire," as well as I remember. That is all 
 wo sent, and if there was any member of the party in the House 
 at the time Mr. Parnell can correct me. 1 said, " I will go and 
 see if there is any member in the House I can show the telegram 
 to." I could not see any one except Mr. Deasy, and he said, " I 
 will agree to anything that you and Mr. Parnell agree to." I 
 could not find any member in tho House at that time, but I found 
 afterwards they were engaged at a meeting at their own conference 
 room, to which I was not invited or Mr. Parnell. (Cries of " Nor 
 I," and cheers.) These are briefly the circumstances of the case. 
 I do not think I have violated my duty. The only mistake I made 
 — and I admit it was a mistake — was that I ought to have shown 
 the telegram to Mr. Parnell. 
 
 Mr. John O'Connor, as one of those who felt aggrieved on tho 
 occasion, desired to say that he felt that in the sending of such a 
 telegram an injustice was done to those who were supporting Mr. 
 Parnell's leadership, and the sending of tho names to America 
 was calculated to mislead their friends. It was well known that 
 he himself supported Mr. Parnell, yet his name was not contained 
 in the telegram. This business was not being conducted accord- 
 ing to the principles of fair play. (Loud cheers.) He was glad 
 this matter had boon brought up, that there was an opportunity of 
 exposing to the Irish people at home and abroad the dastardly 
 attempts that had been made to mislead the public as to tho 
 position of many men at the meeting, who were as honest and 
 patriotic as those who were determined to put Mr. Parnell down. 
 (Choers.) 
 
 Mr. Campbell.— Sir, I rise to strongly support the argument 
 put forward by my hon. friend, in oxposing these infamous pro-
 
 COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE AMERICAN DELEC4ATES. 91 
 
 ceedings on the part of the caucus in the coiner. (Cheers and 
 cries of "Oh.") 
 
 Mr. Barky. — I rise to order. 
 
 The Chairman. — What is your point of order ? 
 
 Mr. Barry. — Mr. Campbell pointed his hand to this part of 
 the House and spoke of the infamous caucus in the corner. I re- 
 spectfully submit that is not in order. 
 
 The Chairman. — The country will have to decide as to your 
 proceedings. (Cheers.) I shall confirm Mr. Campbell's word if 
 necessary. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Barry. — More shame for you. 
 
 Mr. Campbell.— I look upon it as the most infamous thing 
 that has ever happened before the Irish people, that your col- 
 leagues, who ought to have supported you and stood by you and 
 shown you fair play in a fair fight, that they should have gone 
 behind your back and wirepulled, telegraphed, done everything 
 that was infamous, to mislead our colleagues in America as to 
 the position which you still hold in this party. If I had known 
 for one moment that that telegram was about to be despatched, I 
 should have insisted upon rising at this board to tell the people 
 whom 1 represent and to tell the Irish people the world over that 
 I was with you, so that my colleagues in America, humble though 
 I be, might know that I had not deserted the Irish cause. That 
 is the position I would have let my colleagues know in America, 
 if I had had an opportunity of speaking on that day. I had not 
 that opportunity, and I brand as infamous the action of col- 
 leagues who would thus go behind your back and try to cut your 
 throat before the Irish people. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — I think no contentious reference need be made 
 to any meetings of sections of the party, because if I am speak- 
 ing of sections in connexion with this unhappy dispute, un- 
 doubtedly meetings of both sections have been held. (" Hear, 
 hear," and cheers.) 
 
 The Chairman. — Not after Saturday. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — There was an important meeting held by Mr. 
 Parnell on Saturday at the Westminster Palace Hotel. 
 
 The Chairman. — After many other meetings held on your side. 
 
 Mr Sexton. — It is impossible, unreasonable, it is fatuous, to 
 suppose that with men holding strong opinions in matters of 
 great importance it would be possible to restrain their conversa- 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 92 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 tion with one another. You cannot reduco men to the condition 
 of individual isolation. Thoy must take such opportunities as 
 offoi for consultation with each other. But I am not aware of 
 any gathering of members from which any membor of the party 
 was excluded. 
 
 Mr. R. Power. — While the meeting was taking place Mr. 
 Parnell and myself were in the House, and wo know nothing about 
 the matter. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — I am aware that a meeting was held on Saturday 
 evening at the Westminster Palace Hotel, attended by a body of 
 members of the party who support Mr. Parnell in this business, 
 and that 1 and some other mombers were not invited. 
 
 Mr. John Redmond. — T may mention that Mr. Abraham, who, 
 I understand, is to be your spokesman when the main question 
 of your deposition comes on, was present at that meeting. 
 (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — The statement of Mr. Redmond does not at all 
 affect my statement. I hope we shall not have an angry wranglo 
 on a question of this kind. (Hear, hear.) Wo all know that Mr. 
 Parnell summoned meetings to which all the members of the 
 party were not invited. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I followed your example. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — It would be thought absurd of us if we refrained 
 from any consultation which we could have with one another. 
 Mr. John O'Connor has said that the business is being worked. 
 Undoubtedly it is being worked. (Cheors and counter-choors.) 
 The view of my friends was that this was eminently a case for 
 the decision of the party. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Hear, hear. Why don't you leave it to the 
 party ? (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — I left it to the party, recognizing that wo, who 
 had the fullest knowledgo of the facts — that we, who had poli- 
 tical training necessary to enable us to appreciate the question 
 beforo us — we were best able to judge of our grave and terrible 
 responsibility. I therefore told my friends last week that it was 
 desirable no attempt should be made to affect the deliberations of 
 the party. I may say that I received a telogram from the Cor- 
 poration of Dublin, of which I am a member, announcing that a 
 special mooting was to be held to express corfidence in Mr. 
 Parnell, but I rofrained from sending any reply (hoar, hear), be-
 
 COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE AMERICAN DELEGATES. 93 
 
 cause I was determined that by no act of mine could it be said 
 that I attempted, in this grave crisis of our country's cause, to 
 influence in the least degree, by any outside appeal, the delibe- 
 rations of this party. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mu. John O'Connor. — Can anybody explain who is respon- 
 sible for the placarding of the city of Cork with copies of tho 
 American delegates' cablegram ? (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — 1 know nothing abovit tho matter. The arrange- 
 ment of the party in reference to the telegrams to America was 
 that no communication should be initiated on behalf of the 
 party with the body of delegates in America unless through the 
 Whips of the party, who should submit their telegrams, for the 
 satisfaction of both sides in this dispute, to the mover and 
 seconder of the resolution. 
 
 Dr. Fitzgerald. — Only to the Whips. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — Mr. Power wrote one telegram, and he submitted 
 it to the mover of the resolution, and the mover is blamed for 
 having sent it. Mr. Power admits that the telegram should 
 be sent, and therefore I think Mr. Parnell will not maintain 
 the reproach which he directed against Mr. Barry a moment 
 ago. 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— Most certainly I do. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — I think the original arrangement entitled Mr. 
 Barry to send that telegram, and that Mr. Barry, in despatching 
 the messages, was simply carrying out the purpose of the Whips. 
 But we have it also before us that a second message was sent on 
 behalf of the party which did not conform to the conditions 
 agreed upon. 
 
 Mr. John Redmond. --Was there anything unfair in it? (Hear, 
 hear.) 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — That is not the question. The question is 
 whether the arrangement agreed upon has been carried out. I 
 became aware at the end of the week that a number of messages 
 were being received from the delegates in America. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Hear, hear. Where are they? (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Sexton (continuing). — From individual delegates ad- 
 dressed to individual members of the party. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Where are these cablegrams ? 
 
 Mr. John Redmond. — iSame, name. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — I cannot give the names, but I am informed they 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 94 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 were individual messages. I received a telegram of inquiry from 
 one of the delegates in America. 
 
 Mr. Pa knell. — Whero is it '. 
 
 Mit. Sexton. — I have not got it hero, but I can state the sub- 
 stance of it. It was a message from Mr. T. P. O'Connor, in 
 which ho requested me to givo him my views on the situation. 
 That demand by him to mo was a demand which 1 felt obliged to 
 respect. (Hear, hear ) I did not fool that the distance of Mr. 
 T. P. O'Connor from me entitled me to refuse him the knowledge 
 which I would givo him if he were hero. I did send a message 
 informing him that, in my opinion, the majority of the party were 
 of opinion that the retirement of Mr. Parnell would be — I think I 
 said — necessary for the welfare of the Home Rule cause, and also 
 for the security of the evicted tenants. (Cheers and counter- 
 choers.) I have stated that view in my public speeches here. 1 
 do not wish to conceal it now, and I further added that, if tho 
 envoys saw their waj r to support the majority of the party, I had 
 a hope that substantial unanimity would be secured. I believe 
 that in sending that message I discharged my duty. I have not 
 a copy of that reply ; but if it bo thought that that reply should 
 be laid before the party I have no objection that it should be 
 done. 
 
 Colonel Nolan.— I really think now that Mr. Sexton in some 
 public way should withdraw the expression of opinion contained 
 in that telegram, because I believe he made a mistake It is so 
 important, such an important expression of opinion, that I hold 
 that the telegram from America is probably foundod on it. (Hear, 
 hoar.) Mr. Sexton said that substantial unanimity would be 
 obtained in the party provided the delegates votod for tho retire- 
 ment of Mr. Parnell. He must now see that that statement is 
 totally devoid of foundation (cheers), and I hope he will with- 
 draw it. 
 
 Mr. James O'Kelly.— I think it right to say that T also 
 received a telegram from Mr. T. P. O'Connor asking my views, 
 and 1 thought it my duty to reply that, if Mr. Parnell were 
 overthrown, it would causo dissension in the party, which would 
 lead to civil strife in Iroland. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Leamy. — 1 ask the meeting to come back to the origin of 
 this piesont discussion. Tho adjournment from Friday to 
 Monday was granted by the party for the specific purpose of
 
 COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE AMERICAN DELEGATES. 95 
 
 enabling the delegates in America to offer their opinions on the 
 situation. I think they were not entitled to get any information 
 of what occurred in this room at that meeting. Mow, what has 
 been the effect of sending on the telegram that a number of 
 members spoke for the motion and a number against ? Un- 
 questionably a false impression was caused at home and abroad. 
 (Hear, hear.) I have been a victim of that false impression. I 
 learned only this morning that I was set down in the newspapers 
 as neutral in the matter. I have got letters asking me, " Is it 
 possible that on an occasion of this kind you are standing 
 neutral ?" That, of course, was because I had not had the oppor- 
 tunity of expressing my opinion at the meeting of the party. I 
 therefore think it was not fair to send out telegrams that certain 
 members were opposed to Mr. Parnell and certain members for 
 him. 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy.— I rise to a point of order, I ask if the 
 chairman will be good enough to inform me what is the question 
 before the meeting. 
 
 Mr. E. Harrington. No, no. You were out. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — A discussion has been opened by Mr. Barry on 
 the question of communications with the delegates in America, 
 and that discussion will have to proceed to its end. 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy. — Another piece of«pure obstruction ! (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell (vehemently). — I think that a most insolent and 
 impertinent observation (counter cheering) — a most insolent and 
 impertinent observation. (Renewed cheering.) 
 
 Mr. Barry. — I rise 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— Sit down, Mr. Barry, please. 
 
 Mr. Barry. — Allow me 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I will not allow you, Sir. Mr. Leamy is in 
 possession. Let him go on. 
 
 Mr. Leamy.— What I say is that a false impression was pro- 
 duced by the telegrams to America implying that a majority — 
 and among them the leading members of the party— were going in 
 one direction. Now, the reason why the speaking at the meeting 
 on Friday was all in that one direction was because we thought 
 it only fair and reasonable that our opponents should be allowed 
 to give their reasons for their extraordinary change of front. 
 (Hear, hear ) 
 
 Mr. W. Redjiohd. — My position is this. I think, if any names 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 96 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PAIITY. 
 
 wore sent to the delegates in America, all the names of all the 
 men on each side should have been given. (Hear, hear.) 1 feel 
 it my duty in connexion with this matter to draw attention to a 
 statement which has appeared in some of tho newspapers. It 
 was said that the cablegram from our friends in America was re- 
 ceived by certain members of tho party with cheers. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mil. Paknell.— Where ? 
 
 Mn. W. Redmond. — In an English club. (Loud cheers.) I say 
 that that statement ought to be contradicted by our opponents in 
 this matter (hear, hear), for I acquit every one of my colleagues 
 hero of participation in that proceeding, believing as I do that tho 
 decision of our colleagues in America gave our opponents as much 
 regret and pain as it has given us. (Hear, hear.) I say, if Mr. 
 Parnell is to be deposed by a majority, in God's name lot the 
 majority depose him ; and if it bo a matter for cheering, it is not a 
 matter for cheering in any English club. (Cheers.) 
 
 A number of members here rose together, and from them Mr. 
 Parnell called Mr. Barry. 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy. — I thought you had ruled he had spoken. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I will allow him to have another try. 
 
 Mr. Barry. — I wish to say that I am perfectly satisfied with 
 the explanation of Mr. Richard Power (hear, hear), and after that 
 explanation, in which he has stated that he gave me the telegram 
 and asked me to send it, I ask you, Sir, to relieve me from the 
 imputation you threw out, in, I am sure, a moment of heat, that 
 I was guilty of treachery in sending this telegram to America 
 behind your back. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. T. Healy. — I ask my friends on our side not to continuo 
 this discussion. It is evident and patont to every man who will 
 apply his mind to this question, and not allow himself to be in- 
 fluenced by this kind of red herring which has been drawn across 
 our path, that Mr. Parnell asked tho delegates to suspend their 
 judgment pending the issue of his manifesto, and that then, 
 having that manifesto before them, they came to the conclusion 
 upon that manifesto and upon the merits of the case put forward 
 therein by Mr. Parnell. (Hear, hear.) Now we are in a position, 
 as I understand, of having our proceedings on this occasion con- 
 ducted strictly on Parliamentary lines. That was laid down 
 yesterday from tho chair in the most formal manner, and the 
 chairman ruled in every sense, so far as he could, in a formal
 
 COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE AMERICAN DELEGATES. 97 
 
 strictly Parliamentary manner. I would appeal to the chirman 
 not to depart from that position. I entertain, if Mr. Parnell will 
 allow me to say so, the highest personal respect for him, and I 
 have expressed privately — that is to say, I have not run to the 
 newspapers with it, but to every one who has come to me.I have 
 declared my sense of the dignity with which Mr. Parnell con- 
 ducted our proceedings, and the gentlemanly character of his 
 whole temper and bearing yesterday, notwithstanding the very 
 painful position in which he found himself. (Hear, hear.) If 
 any one wants to go to where those opinions were expressed he 
 can go to the quarter where some of our political opponents are so 
 fond of foregathering — the National Liberal Club. (Hear, hear.) 
 Now, I appeal to Mr. Parnell on the present occasion to adhere 
 to strict Parliamentary ruling. (Hear, hear.) Then I complain 
 that Mr. Parnell should have allowed Mr. Barry to speak twice. 
 I complain that Mr. Parnell has allowed this debate to be inter- 
 posed between the question before the House ; and, whatever 
 opinion anybody may have of Mr. Parnell, they must all regard 
 him as a man of enormous Parliamentary ability and reputation. 
 Therefore, I would say to him for his own sake, as he is in the 
 chair, exercising the enormous influence which his chairmanship 
 gives him, and as it is his own personal position and conduct 
 which are under debate, I invite him to be even more rigid in his 
 Parliamentary decisions than he would be if it were the conduct 
 of one of his humblest colleagues that was under discussion. 
 (Hear.) 
 
 Mr. Deasy said that, with regard to the cablegrams alluded to 
 by Mr. Barry and Mr. Power, though he remained in the room 
 until the last moment, he was unaware that any duty was cast 
 upon him to wire to their colleagues the same night. He thought 
 it should be done the next day. When about to go to his hotel he 
 met Mr. Power, who said that Mr. Barry and himself had drafted 
 a cablegram, and that Mr. Barry was waiting for him (the 
 speaker) to see it. He returned to the Lobby, and, not seeing 
 Mr. Barry, concluded the cablegram had been sent. He saw Mr. 
 Campbell in the Lobby next day and said it was extremely un- 
 fortunate that any names had been sent, and that unless the 
 entire names were sent none should have been sent. Further- 
 more, he said he thought it hardly right to send any names at 
 all, because at a large gathering of men such as they had those 
 
 G
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 98 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 who gave their opinion first might be the leading men of the 
 party or they might bo the rank and file, and a wrong complexion 
 might be given because of the way the debate turned. He ex- 
 pressed the same opinion to Mr. Richard Power, Mr. Barry, and 
 several of his colleagues, and Mr. Power said he regretted his 
 woakness in allowing the names to be sent. Mr. Power asked 
 what ho should do, remarking that Mr. Parnell was angry, and 
 he advised him to see Mr. Parnell. He also told Mr. Power that 
 he might affix his own name if Mr. Parnell and Mr. Power sent a 
 telegram, even if he did not seo it. He had the same respect for 
 the honour of Mr. Parnell and Mr. Power then as he had now, 
 and ho felt that neither of those gentlemen would put anything 
 on paper that he would be ashamed to put his name to. (Hear, 
 hear.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Mr. Healy has raised a point of order that 
 this discussion ought to terminate. 
 
 Mr. Murphy. — I rise, but not with the view of carrying on this 
 discussion. 
 
 Me. Parnell. — If it is carrying on the discussion we must 
 proceed with the reading of the telegrams. I am perfectly willing 
 to cany on the discussion, but it will 'bo my turn to say some- 
 thing. 
 
 Mr. Murphy. — I do not wish to say anything further than 
 to point out that the paragraph that gave rise to the discus- 
 sion — 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — But this is precisely the matter you want to 
 carry on. You must see you cannot do both things — namely, ask 
 mo to stop it and to go on with it. 
 
 Mr. John Redmond said ho understood Mr. Parnell invited 
 from members present information concerning the sending of 
 cablegrams to America. Ho himself sent a .cablegram to Mr. 
 Gill, suggesting from himself that the best way to settle tho 
 difference would be if by any possibility the 'delegates could 
 come home and meet the party. (Cheers.) He did not think 
 there was any importance to be attached to it ; but if he sup- 
 pressed the fact importance might be attached to it heroafter. 
 (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Joseph Nolan. — A complaint has been made — 
 The Chairman. — I think we had better go now to the reading of 
 the telegrams.
 
 COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE AMERICAN DELEGATES. 99 
 
 Mr. Condon. — I wish to speak on the subject of the cable- 
 grams. (Interruption.) 
 
 The Chairman. — If we are going on to the subject of the 
 cablegrams, all I can say is 
 
 Mr. Condon. — Very well, if the meeting does not wish to hear 
 me (cries of "Order") 
 
 Mr. Joseph Nolan. — A complaint has been made that you 
 decided yesterday and to-day that the proceedings should be 
 carried on according to the rules of Parliamentary procedure. 
 
 Mr. Healy.— I beg pardon ; I did not say that Mr. Parnell 
 decided to do so to-day. 
 
 Mr. Nolan.— I do not think that Mr. Healy should have made 
 use of the expression that a red herring was being drawn across 
 the trail. 
 
 Dr. Fitzgerald rose to speak, but was inaudible, amid cries of 
 "Spoke" and "Chair." 
 
 The meeting adjourned at 2 o'clock. 
 
 At a quarter to 3 proceedings were resumed. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Can we not make some progress, Mr. Chairman ? 
 
 The Chairman.— Before we go from the subject which was 
 occupying our attention before the adjournment, I think I am 
 entitled to say that I suppose no other communications were 
 made to the American delegates, except those which have been 
 mentioned to me, 
 
 Mr. Condon. — No, Mr. Parnell. On Saturday afternoon, having 
 read the manifesto, I met Messrs. Sheehy, Lane, Roche, and 
 Kilbride, and we discussed that part of the manifesto in reference 
 to the evicted tenants, and we then considered it our duty to 
 cable to Mr. O'Brien and Mr. Dillon our views with regard to the 
 effect that part of the manifesto would have upon the tenants in 
 Ireland, and, though I cannot give you the exact words of the 
 cablegram, I can give you the substance, which was to the effect 
 that in our opinion that part of the manifesto would have a 
 weakening if not a disastrous effect upon the Campaign tenants 
 in Ireland. Mr. Sheehy and the other gentlemen are here and 
 can bear me out in this. I have nothing to hide in the matter. 
 (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Sheehy. — I concur in the statement Mr. Condon has 
 made. I, do not think it would have been honourable of me, 
 having sent it, if I did not avow it. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 g— 2 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 100 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 The Chairman. — Then I suppose I am to assume that no other 
 member of the party has made any communication ? 
 
 Mu. Kilbride. — I also was a party to the sending of tho 
 cablegram. 
 
 Mu. Sheehy. — The gentlemen whose names have been men- 
 tioned attached their names to the cablegram. 
 
 Tho Chairman.— That refers only to one cablo. Then I assume 
 that no other member of the party made any communication with 
 the delegates ? 
 
 Mn. John Redmond. — I think I have some reason to complain 
 that, when a communication was sent to the delegates in America 
 on behalf of a number of gentlemon professing to speak on behalf 
 of the Campaign tenants, no communication was made to me. I 
 am in this position— that, in conjunction with my frienda Mr. 
 Sheehy and Dr. Kenny, I was left in Ireland by Mr. Dillon and 
 Mr. O'Brien specially charged with looking after the interests of 
 these tenants. 
 
 Mu. Sheehy. — As a matter of explanation, neither Mr. Con- 
 don, Mr. Kilbride, Mr. Lane, nor myself ventured to express the 
 opinion of anybody but ourselves. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mu. Clancy. — I do not know whether it is necessary for me to 
 say, but perhaps it is, that on Wednesday morning last, before 
 the meeting of the party took place, Dr. Kenny and myself sent a 
 cablegram to America to this effect*:—" Wire views of Dillon 
 and O'Brien on Mr. Gladstone's letter, which was not be- 
 fore mooting of party yesterday. This message from selves 
 alone." 
 
 The Chairman. — I think we may assumo that these are all the 
 communications that have been made. Mr. Campbell will go on 
 with the reading of messages. 
 
 Mu. Campbell then read a number of telegrams and lettors. 
 Mu. Healy and Mr. Flynn objected to some of them being read, 
 as being personal letters ; they had received a number of such 
 letters. 
 
 Mr. Campbell.— I have 2,000 or 3,000 telegrams in your sup- 
 port, which have boon put on one side. 
 
 Mr. M. Healy asked that a telegram from Canon O'Mahony, 
 of Cork, should be read. 
 
 Tho Chairman. — Certainly ; I think it ought to bo read. 
 
 Mr. John O'Connor.— I have received telegrams from Father
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. O'KELLY. 101 
 
 Sheehy and others, and I have not read them, as being personal 
 telegrams. 
 
 Mr. M. Healy. — Wait until you hear it read. 
 
 Mb. Campbell then read the telegram. 
 
 The Chairman. — I know when I was elected I had only one 
 priest supporting me out of the whole of the Cork priests. 
 
 Mr. T. Healy. — And that priest was Canon O'Mahony. 
 
 The Chairman. — And that was the reason I allowed his letter 
 to be read. 
 
 Mr. John O'Connor. — I, of course, do not object to its being 
 read. 
 
 Mr. James O'Kelly, who was received with cheers, said he 
 supported Colonel Nolan's amendment for the adjournment of 
 the meeting to Dublin for two reasons. The first was that before 
 they took a decision upon the question they should have some 
 opportunity of gauging the real opinion of Ireland. From the tele- 
 grams which had been read it was evident that there was a vast 
 body of opinion running counter to the action which they knew 
 the majority of the party intended to take. Another reason why 
 he supported the amendment was because their proceedings were 
 in part judicial proceedings. They were at once the judges and 
 jury, and the atmosphere in which they were sitting was not a 
 judicial atmosphere. (Cheers.) The people of Ireland would be 
 scandalized if they were to see the proceedings that followed the 
 meetings of that party. Would any honest man stand up and 
 say that when the doors of the House were thrown open and 
 when they went into the lobbies, scenes would not be witnessed 
 such as were witnessed as late as the previous night ? (Cheers.) 
 What would be said of a jury which went into conference with men 
 who were known to be hostile, and bitterly hostile, and demand- 
 ing the destruction of the man upon whom the Irish party were 
 sitting in judgment 1 (Cheers.) Whatever the decision of the 
 party, it was felt on both sides that the business would not end 
 in that House or in that room. (Cheers.) When Mr. T. P. 
 O'Connor asked him his views he said that if they were to drive 
 Mr. Parnell from the party they would be beginning a civil war. 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy.— What about the party pledge ? 
 
 Mr. O'Kelly said that as for the party pledge, if he were 
 beaten at home he should resign his seat. (Cheers.) From the 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 102 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 inception of the party it had been their boast that whatever they 
 did was done in obedience to the will of; the people. What 
 abont the pledges they had given over and over again to the 
 people of Ireland to do only that which they approved of 1 The 
 adoption of Colonel Nolan's proposition would give them time 
 to think, and it would give the country time to think. The inci- 
 dent that occurred the other night at the National Liberal Club 
 had been mentioned there. Ho would not refer to it otherwise, 
 because it was too shocking to his mind that any body of Irish- 
 men should have stood up in that English club and rejoiced over 
 the fall of their chief and the disunion of their country. (Loud 
 cheers.) Why were they in such a hurry to forestall the opinion 
 of Ireland ? If time wore given, and if the decision of tho 
 country was clearly against them, he would submit absolutely, 
 and would be no party to resistance to the will of the country. 
 (Cheers.) But he would not submit to a decision which was 
 forced along by the intrigues and pressure of an English party 
 and an English statesman. (Cheers, and cries of " No, no.") 
 That was the view he took, and it was the view he believed tho 
 country would take. He asked them to argue from the decision 
 of tho Dublin Corporation that the opinion of Ireland had not 
 been changed from its friendliness to Mr. Parnell by anything 
 that had happened. (Hear, hear.) Let thorn convince him that 
 the throwing over of Mr. Parnell would give them a measure of 
 Homo Rule which they themselves would accept, and he would 
 vote with them. (Cheers.) But what was the fact? They had 
 the account given by Mr. Parnell showing tho kind of Home 
 Rule Mr. Gladstone proposed to givo them. (Hear, hear.) They 
 had such contradiction as Mr. Gladstone had made, and what 
 was the value of it 1 Would any man, knowing Mr. Gladstone's 
 intellectual subtlety, get up and say there was anything like 
 real or valuable contradiction of anything that Mr. Parnell had 
 said in that letter of Mr. Gladstone ? There was nothing 
 thoy could hold on to. (Cheers.) If Mr. Gladstone and tho 
 Liberal party wanted to" settlo this question they had got the 
 chance. (Hear, hear.) The challenge had been thrown down to 
 them. (Cheers.) It was said that to give an answer might spoil 
 tho Home Rule Bill, but some day that Bill would come to tho 
 front, and the sooner tho better. (Cheers.) There was ono point 
 which seemed to bo lost sight of in this discussion — tho state-
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. O'KELLY. 103 
 
 merit that Mr. Gladstono had of himself with his party the power 
 to grant Home Rule. Now, he denied that the Liberal party had 
 the power to give Home Rule. Their power to do anything was 
 strictly limited by the power of the House of Lords to deny them 
 when the Bill went to the Upper House, and that power of the 
 House of Lords was an unenfranchi sable barrier to all progress 
 unless it was backed by the fear of revolution. He held that 
 that fear was absent in the case of Ireland (hear, hear), and they 
 would neversee a revolution in England based upon any Irish claim. 
 (Cheers.) Coming to the question of Mr. Gladstone's letter, he 
 said Mr. M'Carthy was almost too honest for political life, and 
 seemed to think that the mere assurance that was given by Mr. 
 Gladstone, Mr. Morley, and other men in the Liberal party favour- 
 able to them was a sufficient guarantee ; but he would call to Mr. 
 M'Carthy's recollection a little scene which took place in the House 
 some years ago, when a similar question of relying on the honour 
 of English statesmen arose. It was on the night on which they 
 threw Mr. Gladstone out of power. A small committee of the 
 Irish party was holding a meeting, their chief being present, when 
 communications were made to them from the Conservative party. 
 There were certain promises given to them on the faith of English 
 gentlemen and on the faith of English statesmen. He himself 
 wished those promises to be put in writing, but Mr. M'Carthy said 
 it would be impossible, and it was against the habits and etiquette 
 of English life. Mr. M'Carthy trusted these men implicitly. 
 Did he not know that in a few months these men came up and 
 lied themselves out of the situation ? (Cheers.) They not only 
 betrayed the Irish party, but denied that the thing had ever 
 happened. (Cheers.) He himself followed Mr. Parnell from the 
 Council-room, and saw him go direct to Mr. Winn, the Conserva- 
 tive Whip, and in half an hour afterwards Mr. Gladstone's 
 Government was thrown out. They then gave themselves away 
 on the honour of these men, and notwithstanding that experience 
 Mr. M'Carthy was now prepared to give himself away to the other 
 party on their honour. (Hear, hear.) The situation was a very 
 slippery one for the men who represented Ireland to put them- 
 selves in. If they were going to give up their chief, they should 
 at least give the people something in exchange for him. (Hear, 
 hear.) He asked them not to go with empty hands and shadowy 
 promises, with the experience they had had of Parliament, and of 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 104 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 the confidence which could bo placed in the words of English 
 gontlemen and English statesmen. (Hoar, hear.) The deception 
 was not merely historical ; they had had it within their own 
 experience. And if they had recovered from that position, how had 
 they recovered ? By the unity of the party, by the unity of the 
 race, by fighting like one man. (Cheers.) The moment they gave 
 away their chief they laid down a rule by which the political life 
 of the next man who led them was rendered insecure. (Hear, 
 hoar.) What man would trust them afterwards ? (Cheers.) 
 Would the English trust them 1 (" No, no.") Trust was based 
 upon general respect. (Cheers.) The third point upon which 
 they based their action was the unity of the cause, the unity of 
 the people, and he held that that vanity must include the unity of 
 the Irish race. It was not enough to be united in that room. 
 Five of the most respected of their men were in America, and they 
 had issued their manifesto. What, it the Press were to be trusted, 
 had been the result? It had killed their action in America, or, at 
 least, their action would be hampered. He had had communica- 
 tions from America, both of them absolutely unsought ; one from 
 their old friend Devoy — the one which he himself had published 
 — and the other the one they had read there that day. These men 
 represented not themselves alone, but a volume of opinion of some 
 importance. He did not come to a decision hastily, but waited 
 to hear what the men who differed from him had to say. It 
 seemed to him that the supreme question was the question of 
 holding their own cause and the people together, whatever tem- 
 porary evil might result from that action. The really important 
 thing was to keep the Irish race united under their leader. 
 (Cheers.) He was the standard round which the whole Irish race 
 was ranged. Pull down that standard and they would find their 
 battalions dispersing in more than one direction. (Cheers.) If 
 Mr. Parnell fell, in his fall the statue of Irish liberty risked 
 being smashed to pieces. (Loud cheers.) 
 
 At this point Mr. Parnell left the room temporarily, and during 
 his absence Mr. Justin M'Carthy took the chair. 
 
 Mr. A. O'Connor said one of the things which pained him 
 most was to find himself differing for once from his friend James 
 O'Kelly. This might be the last occasion possibly on which he 
 himself would address either this party or any other Irish Parlia- 
 mentary party. Ho believed that his own independence and in-
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. A. O'CONNOR. 105 
 
 tegrity had been beyond question until now. (Cheers.) He de- 
 clared to them that no wirepulling of any English party had ever 
 affected him, and at this moment his independence and integrity 
 were intact before the leader and the country. (Cheers.) On 
 that black and dismal day within the last three weeks when the 
 result of the proceedings in the Probate Division was made 
 known, he felt that for himself at least and for Ireland the con- 
 tinuation of Mr. Parnell as chairman of that party was impossible. 
 (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. E. Harrington. — Why didn't you say so at the time ? 
 
 Mr. A. O'Connor. — I speak for myself, and I say that from 
 that moment I felt that Mr. Parnell was an impossible leader, and 
 I believe now that Mr. Parnell is an impossible leader, for the 
 people of my race. (Hear, hear.) When, on Tuesday, on enter- 
 ing this room, I found a resolution in course of preparation I was, 
 I admit, ashamed, overwhelmed, and confused. (Cries of "Oh!") 
 I arrived at the conclusion that it must have been through some 
 misunderstanding or another. I considered myself then in the 
 position of one of the Old Guard of Napoleon giving a parting 
 salute. 
 
 Mr. E. Harrington. — You won't ride off on that plea here. 
 
 Mr. A. O'Connor. — I have not interrupted any one (cheers), 
 and I promise to avoid any language which would give reason- 
 able offence to anyone. After that meeting, when I found myself 
 in consultation with other members of the party, I did declare 
 without hesitation or compromise or qualification that I con- 
 sidered the vote of the afternoon should be reconsidered ; and 
 before I knew of Mr. Gladstone's letter, before I believe any 
 member of this party knew of Mr. Gladstone's letter, I had 
 already urged upon some of my colleagues the necessity of taking 
 immediate action, so that the character and dignity of this party 
 might be preserved, and that we might not be influenced by the 
 opinion of any English statesman or party. (Hear, hear.) When 
 Mr. Gladstone's letter appeared it added to my previous convic- 
 tion. I regarded that letter as the effect of a cause. I hold 
 myself independent of English public opinion. I have not 
 courted English public opinion ; but I look to the opinion of my 
 own countrymen and to the approbation of my. own conscience. 
 But if there had been room for doubt before the publication of the 
 manifesto, that would of itself have removed it. I can, I think, 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 106 MEETINC4S OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 through the lines of the manifesto, trace the nature of the consul- 
 tation which it recalls, and in that consultation, whatever may 
 have been Mr. Parnell's impression at that time or since, I 
 believe when the wholo matter is known nothing that can fairly 
 be mado ground of complaint against Mr. Gladstone will be forth- 
 coming. A great many questions have been raised in the course 
 of this debato which are beside tho real point. The real issue 
 before us is simple. It may be road in the delicate wording of 
 the resolution such as Mr. Barry proposed on Saturday, on which 
 the meeting stood adjourned. It may be shelved for a time, as 
 is admitted by the amendment of Colonel Nolan, and it may be 
 easily stated, as in the amendment of Mr. Abraham, and rejected, 
 I am sorry to say, by the chair ; but the issue is clear and 
 distinct. We all understand it. There is no shirking it. 
 
 Mit. John Redmond. — No one wants to shirk it. 
 
 Mr. A. O'Connor, continuing, said he was willing to believe 
 that no one wanted to shirk it ; but the issue was the question of 
 the chairmanship of Mr. Parnell. No man in the room had ap- 
 preciated more thoroughly than he the transcendent services of 
 that statesman ; for he was a great statesman. He himself 
 was fully aware of the disadvantages which must attend 
 the Irish cause if Mr. Parnell's leadership was brought to 
 an end. Tho decision must bo damaging ; but if it was 
 a mere question of policy tbat was to guide- them, however 
 great the disadvantages of Mr. Parnell's retirement might 
 be, tho disadvantages of his retaining office were incom- 
 parably greater. (Hear, hear.) It was proposed to adjourn tho 
 decision until the opinion of the Irish people was ascertained, 
 though they were not told how that opinion was to be ascertained 
 and how they were to act upon it. Upon that proposal his deci- 
 sion was clear. They owed it to themselves as self-respecting 
 men of independence and intogrity ; they owed it to the party 
 and to their convulsed and distracted country to settle this ques- 
 tion at onco definitely and permanently. Tho country had loft 
 to them the responsibility of choosing their chairman, and they 
 must decide. (Cheers.) Tho situation was distressing and 
 heartrending in the extreme ; its prolongation was intolerable. 
 
 Colonel Nolan. — Yes, for you. 
 
 Mr. O'Connor.— Yes, I admit I am speaking for myself.
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT-MR. MACDONALD. 107 
 
 Mr. Campbell (ironically). — Give me the dagger ; I will do 
 the deed. (Cries of *' Order.") 
 
 • Mr. O'Connor appealed to the meeting to come to a definite 
 decision on the real issue. Whatever motion was put from the 
 chair, he should so vote as to show that in his opinion the chair- 
 manship of Mr. Parnell should be determined. Jf the decision 
 of the party was adverse to what he considered it should be, he 
 should at once surrender to his constituents the trust they had 
 committed to him and surrender it uncom promised and unstained, 
 with full confidence that he had honestly done what he believed 
 was his duty. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. W. A. Macdonald, referring to the speeches delivered by 
 Mr. Sexton and Mr. Healy, asked whether these gentlemen had 
 always maintained the position they now took up. They had 
 told them that Mr. Parnell 's leadership was impossible. Mr. 
 Sexton did not go to the Leinster Hall meeting, but on the first 
 day of the Session he came down to the House and told the mem- 
 bers of the party that Mr. Parnell' s leadership ought to be con- 
 tinued. (Cheers.) In 24 hours afterwards Mr. Sexton was a 
 most powerful advocate for the directly contrary view. (Laughter 
 and " Hear, hear.") He wanted to know what had changed Mr. 
 Sexton in the interval. (Hear, hear.) After criticising the 
 course which Mr. Healy had taken, the speaker warmly supported 
 Mr. Parnell's leadership, and contended that the voice of the 
 Irish nation was with him, and that without him the Irish party 
 ■would become discredited and disorganized. He hoped that 
 Ireland would speak decisively, and that in the interests of 
 Ireland, which Mr. Parnell had served so long, and in the in- 
 terests of the colleagues who were standing by him, Mr. Parnell 
 would not for one moment relinquish his claim to be the chairman 
 of the party and the leader of the Irish people, until the Irish 
 people, by an unequivocal vote, had dethroned him from that 
 position. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. William Corbett said Mr. Parnell had brought Ireland 
 out of bondage. He had sacrificed his health and everything for 
 her. Were they now to cashier him in deference to the cry of an 
 English party ? He did not envy the people who could lightly 
 take that view. Mr. Healy was a lawyer by profession, and could 
 always make black white. 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 108 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Me. T. M. Healy. — What is Mr. John Redmond's profession ? 
 You have more lawyers on your side than we have. (Laughter.) 
 Mb. J. Redmond. — But you have more attorneys. 
 Mr. Campbell. — All the Healy family are attorneys and 
 lawyers. (Laughter.) 
 
 Sir Thomas Esmonds paid a high tribute to Mr. Parnell's 
 services to Ireland, but said that ho came into politics, not to 
 bind matters to any man, but to serve his country. He believed 
 that a change in tho Irish leadership was necessary. 
 
 Mr. Richard Rower supportod Mr. Parnell's leadership, and 
 deplored the sudden and extreme change of opinion that had 
 taken placo on the other side. Men who now wanted to depose 
 Mr. Parnell were, three days ago, his warmest supporters. He 
 believed the cause of Ireland could only be saved by Mr. Parnell's 
 leadership. In the course of further remarks, the speaker 
 referred to Sir Thomas Esmonde, and said he did not tell them 
 why he had now changed his mind upon this question. (Hear, 
 hear.) He told them that he had changed his mind on Tuesday. 
 He (the speaker) challenged him to deny this— that on Wednesday 
 evening at the National Liberal Club he declared himself in 
 favour of Mr. Parnell. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Sib Thomas Esmonde. — I have not the least recollection of 
 having said anything of the sort. 
 
 Dr. Kenny. — But I am the member who first gave to Mr. Power 
 the information he has just used. I ask Sir Thomas Esmonde 
 whether he did not leave me at the National Liberal Club on 
 Wednesday evening, before going to Ireland, in perfect accord 
 with me as to the leadership. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — " Quostion, question." 
 
 Sir Thomas Esmonde. — I have not the least recollection of 
 what my friend Dr. Kenny says. If I did make any remarks on 
 the subject, he must have misunderstood the purport of them. 
 
 Dr. Kenny (who rose-amid cries of "Order" and "Sit down") 
 said he wrote to Sir Thomas Esmonde from Dublin, and, if tho 
 letter were produced, and a certain passage in it read, it would 
 show that he (Dr. Kenny) was right. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — You have no right toitalk that way. (Crios of 
 "Order.") 
 
 Mr. E. Harrington. — It is a question of honour, Healy ; leavo 
 him to himself. (Renewed cries of " Order.")
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. R. POWER. 109 
 
 Sir Thomas Esmonds said he would produce the letter to- 
 morrow if he could find it. 
 
 Mr. R. Power (continuing) said he would pass •from that 
 matter, and ask Sir Thomas Esmonde another question — if, 
 upon a certain occasion, he sent a wire to Mr. Parnell saying 
 that he and others would issue a manifesto in support of him, 
 and two hours after, the same evening, came to his colleagues 
 and withdrew his name from that manifesto ? 
 
 Mr. Healy here went over and spoke to Sir Thomas Esmonde. 
 
 Mr. E. Harrington. — Look at his legal adviser. If he is an 
 honourable man, he wants no legal adviser. 
 
 Mr. R. Power. — I am not surprised that Mr. Healy is anxious 
 to give assistance to his friend on this occasion. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — On the contrary, I told him to hold his tongue 
 and not assist this obstruction. 
 
 Mr. Power. — Then you gave him excellent advice, and I am 
 only sorry he did not follow it. Mr. Power went on to say that 
 they were responsible to the people who had sent them there, and 
 the people who sent them to Parliament were the people who 
 ought to have a voice in this matter, and not be shut out from 
 the deliberations which were now going on. (Cheers.) Referring 
 to a remark of Sir Thomas Esmonde' s, that there was no objection 
 previously for the Irish party to be the tail of the Liberal party, Mr. 
 Power said he agreed with him that there was no objection before, 
 but the tail at that time had a head, and now they wanted to take 
 them without a head and have nothing at the tail. (Cheers.) He 
 firmly believed that the Irish people in America and Australia 
 would not have given them the support which they had if they 
 had not believed that the party was animated by a spirit of inde- 
 pendence. There was no disguising the fact that they had now come 
 to a fierce and, he regretted to say, a bitter fight between two sec- 
 tions of the Irish party. It was a fight, but let it be said openly 
 that it was a fight between Mr. Sexton and Mr. Parnell. 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Barry.— Between Mr. Parnell and Ireland. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. E. Harrington. — Between John Barry and Ireland. 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Power asked why, if it was a question between Mr. Par- 
 nell and Ireland, they did not go over to Dublin and settle it ? 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 110 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Mit. W. Redmond. —Henry G rattan would havo gone to Dublin. 
 
 Mr. Power 6aid it was not a question between Mr. Parnell 
 and Ireland, but a question whether they would remain a solid 
 and independent party in the House of Commons, led by tho 
 only man who could lead tho Irish party, or whether they would 
 throw thomselvos helpless and hopeless into the hands of tho 
 Liberal party to-day. In conclusion, he expressed his determi- 
 nation to stand by Mr. Parnell. (Uheors.) 
 
 Mr. Chilly, after a few personal explanations, said that up to 
 Tuesday ho had been of opinion that tho outcry against Mr. 
 Parnell in England was only that of a few fanatics ; but he was 
 now satisfied that the situation had been vitally and funda- 
 mentally altered by two facts. These two facts were the issue of 
 Mr. Gladstone's lettor and Mr. Parnell' s own manifesto. (Cheers.) 
 If this fight for Ireland were worth fighting within the Constitu- 
 tion, it could only be won, to his mind, by an honourable and 
 manly self-respecting alliance with tho British democracy, and, 
 because he believed that Mr. Parnell' s action had not only im- 
 perilled and jeopardized any possibility of such an honourable 
 and upright alliance but had utterly destroyed any such possi- 
 bility, he intonded to vote dead against the continued leadership 
 by Mr. Parnell of tho Irish party. (Cheers.) He had come to 
 this conclusion with intense pain, sorrow, and agony (hear, hear), 
 and he was prepared to abide by the consequences. Mr. Parnell 
 had done him tho honour of bringing him into the party, but he 
 was willing to face the consequences if it involved his retire- 
 ment, bocause he should carry with him tho conviction that in 
 this terrible crisis he had done what he thought was best for Ire- 
 land. It was almost breaking his heart-strings to give the vote 
 he was going to give. He came into tho party animated by the one 
 ambition to serve the cause of Ireland, and to serve it until he 
 died. (Cheers.) Although he should vote against Mr. Parnell 
 that night, he was voting for the liberty of Ireland. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. M. J. Kenny said they were told they must consult with 
 tho peoplo of Ireland. He was prepared to consult with them 
 and to abido by their decision ; but he contended that they must 
 not shirk thoir duty at that meeting. If the decision of that 
 meeting was not to bo abided by, and the minority intended to 
 appeal to tho peoplo of Ireland afterwards, they would lie disre- 
 garding tho fundamental rulo of tho Irish party, that tho
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. M. J. KENNY. Ill 
 
 minority should be bound by the decision of the majority, and ho 
 believed, under such circumstances, it would be useless to con- 
 tinue the discussion. The main question that concerned them 
 was whether they should vote for the destruction of the alliance 
 with the English Liberal party or whether they should vote for 
 Mr. Parnell's retirement. In such an alternative there was but 
 one choice. They were reminded of the efforts of the past 16 
 years. What had been those efforts, and what were they intended 
 to lead up to ? (Cheers.) If they were not the gratification of 
 personal ambition, they were to lead up to self-government for 
 Ireland. (Cheers,) How was self-government for Ireland to be 
 attained ? Could they obtain it as a separate and independent 
 party 1 They were bound to enter into an alliance with 
 some English party before they could ever obtain Home Rule for 
 Ireland. (Cheers.) The Tory party never betrayed them. They 
 entered into an alliance with them, and, at a certain moment, 
 when they became useless for the party, they (the Nationalists) 
 entered into an alliance with the Liberal party. The moment 
 they broke that alliance they would be cast back into the position 
 they occupied ten or 11 years ago. (Hear, hear.) The Liberal 
 party would become useless, and they would have to start over 
 again. Suppose they did ? What was it to lead up to but 
 another alliance in the future ? Were they, then, to be at the 
 mercy of one man, who, at a critical moment, might fall as Mr. 
 Parnell had fallen ; and were they to be cast into the melting-pot 
 again ? (Cheers.) The people of Ireland might be committed to 
 one eternal round of political agitation leading nowhere. He re- 
 fused to subordinate the interests of Ireland to the accidental 
 chance of the integrity of some particular man ten or 20 years 
 hence. They had been asked who was responsible for the present 
 situation. He said it was Mr. Parnell. Let there be no shirking 
 of the point. He contended that Mr. Parnell had led his friends 
 into a certain position, and when he found that he could not 
 remain where they placed him, his duty was to have withdrawn. 
 When the party met last Wednesday Mr. Parnell was offered on 
 behalf of the majority of the party a most honourable and just 
 compromise. 
 
 Mb. Parnell. — What was it ? 
 
 Mn. Kenny, continuing, said it was suggested that Mr. Parnell 
 should retire from the chair for a time, they undertaking not to 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 112 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 fill it up in the meantime. In June last Mr. Pamoll had 
 expressed implicit boliof in the bona fides of tho Liberal party. 
 Why was it that ho did not .produce this conversation until an 
 issue personal to himself was raised ? (Cheers.) The inference 
 which Mr. Parnell wished thorn to draw from the Hawarden 
 conversation was that he could not trust the Liberal party — 
 (Mr. Parnell.— Hear, hear)— and that they were bound to betray 
 them if Mr. Parnell ceased to be their leader. If ho (Mr. Kenny) 
 thought that the Irish party was so stupid and ignorant or so 
 helpless that, without Mr. Parnell's lead, they would bo at the 
 mercy of the chicanery of any English statesman he would have 
 no hope in the future for the Irish party or Parliament. (Cheers.) 
 But the Irish people looked to their representatives, and not to 
 tho chairman of those representatives, for the ultimate salvation 
 of their country ("Hear, hear," and cries of " No, no ") ; and he 
 believed that if Mr. Parnell had been really desirous of saving tho 
 situation he would have withdrawn. He would then still have 
 been a great force, and would have been of great service to 
 Ireland ; but by obstinately retaining a position which was 
 untenable, by appealing to Ireland and distracting the people 
 there on the eve of a general election, he might be the means of 
 rendering Home Rule absolutely impossible. Under tho circum- 
 stances it was impossible that the interests of Ireland could be 
 safeguarded otherwise than by Mr. Parnell's compulsory retire- 
 ment from tho chairmanship of tho party. 
 
 Mr. J. F. X. O'Brien .said Mr. O 'Kelly told them that they 
 had nothing to hope from the Liberal party. Then what was tho 
 meaning of their alliance with that party for the last five years ? 
 Was it a sham ? Mr. O 'Kelly also said that they gave themselves 
 away some years ago to the Tory party. Under whose leadership 
 did thoy do that ? It was also said that they gave themselves 
 away to the Liberals ; but under whose leadership did they do 
 that? (Hoar, hear.) Mr. O'Kelly also referred to the waning 
 influence of the Irish in America, and Mr. Eugene O'Kelly, of 
 New York, said that commenced after the proceedings in the 
 Divorce Court. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — He said nothing of the sort. 
 
 Mr. O'Brien.— Thon, if he did not, it would be a very becom- 
 ing thing for him to say. (Laughter and cheers.)
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. J. F. X. O'BRIEN. 113 
 
 Mb. Parnell.— Why did'nt you say .that on Tuesday, Sir ? 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Mh. O'Brien. — On the question of leadership I wish to say we 
 havo had very little leadership of any kind from Mr. Parnell 
 during the last few years. (Hear, hear.) As forme, after the 
 Divorce Court expose, I came to the conclusion that your con- 
 tinued leadership was intolerable and a disgrace. (Interruption, 
 and cries of " Order.") 
 
 Mit. E. Harrington.— Why did'nt you say so on Tuesday ? 
 We cannot allow this to go on. Our own side ought not to 
 allow it. 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— Let him go on. Order for Mr. O'Brien, please. 
 
 Mr. O'Brien. — On Tuesday last before going to the meeting I 
 was assured by Mr. Barry that you had decided to retire, if re- 
 elected. (Cries of " Oh.") 
 
 Mr. Barry.— I was informed so by Mr. Lane. (Renewed cries 
 of " Oh, oh.") 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— Another Cork member. 
 
 Mr. Lane.— It is not a lie, Mr. Parnell. 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— I did not say it was a lie. I said it was 
 another Cork member to whom we were indebted for that. 
 
 Mr. Lane. -Well, Mr. Parnell, I am not ashamed of being a 
 Cork member. (Loud cheers.) As to the statement that you 
 would retire if re-elected, I was told so by Mr. Tuohy. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — You have misunderstood me, Mr. Lane. 
 
 Mr. Lane. — I am very sorry, Mr. Parnell, if I have. 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— I did not say it, was a lie, or impute false- 
 hood to you, or cast any reflection on the Cork members. Mr. 
 O'Brien is in possession of the Chair, and cannot be interrupted. 
 
 Mr. J. F. X. O'Brien. — In re-electing you last Tuesday we 
 were only paying you a compliment, for we thought you intended 
 to resign. (Laughter.) As to the Hawarden meeting, I do not 
 think the people of Ireland will be satisfied with your explana- 
 tion. You said you knew then that Mr. Gladstone had become 
 false to us. 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— I did not say he had become false to you. 
 (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. O'Brien.— I will allow the people of Ireland to think about 
 that for themselves, -Mr. Parnell. (Cheers and counter-cheers.) 
 You kept silence on that treachery, and left your colleagues under 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 ] ) 10 ' 
 
 11 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 the impression that all was safe, and went about the country 
 praising Mr. Gladstone. I leave you, Mr. Parnell, to convince 
 the people of Ireland of the honesty of your part in that grave 
 matter. This is the most wretched moment of my life, for 1 see, 
 shattered by you, who brought us to our splendid position, all 
 the hopes of Ireland. 
 
 At this stage an hour's adjournment for dinner took place. 
 
 On the resumption of the meeting, 
 
 Mil. Parnell said, — I wanted, in regard to a question of dis- 
 puted recollection between Mr. Lane and Mr. Barry a short time 
 
 Mn. T. Healy. — I rise to a point of order. I understood you 
 had called upon Mr. Garrett Byrne. 
 
 Mn. Parnell. — Yes ; but it is a mattor which, I think, the 
 meeting ought to have in their possession. 
 
 Mr. Healy.— I respectfully submit to you that you cannot 
 occupy the position of chairman in conducting our debates, and 
 at the same time continue the position of counsel to yourself. 
 (Cheers and counter cheers.) This is a matter which has got to 
 be met now, and I will meet it. (Cheers and counter cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — What is it you want to meet ? 
 
 Mr. Healy.— I want to meet the fact that the debates are not 
 being conducted by the Chair in accordance with the position 
 laid down yesterday— viz., in accordance with the rules to which 
 you referred. 
 
 Mr. Parnell here roso from the chair. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Am I in possession or not ? 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — At present I am in possession, and I wish to 
 have a matter cleared up with regard to a statement made in 
 reference to the Cork members, and to Mr. Lane in particular, 
 just before wo adjourned. 
 
 Mr. Healy.— Will strangers be roquested to withdraw in the 
 meantime ? 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — No ; this is a matter which comes within the 
 competency of the meeting, and it should bo within the com- 
 petency of the reporters. The Press were present. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — I don't refer to the reporters. 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— Who are the strangers 1 
 
 Mr. Healy.— 1 see one behind me, Mr. J. M. Tuohy. 
 
 Mr. Lkamy.— Why, Mr. Tuohy is chief of the Freeman staff.
 
 PROCEDURE— CONVERSATION. 115 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— This is Mr. Tuohy who is wanted in this 
 matter. Mr. Lane was under the impression I stated to the 
 meeting that he had received from Mr. Tuohy a statement, which 
 he communicated to Mr. Barry, that, prior to the meeting on 
 Tuesday, I had expressed my intention of resigning in case I 
 was re-elected to the chairmanship of the party, and that this 
 information, so communicated by Mr. Tuohy, produced a power- 
 ful impression on his mind, and also on Mr. Barry's, with 
 reference to the subsequent proceedings. Now, I have asked Mr. 
 Tuohy to state to you 
 
 Mr. Lane. — If you will allow me one moment 
 
 Mr. Healy. — I have raised a point of order. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — What is it ? 
 
 Mr. Healy. — I will state it. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Very well. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — I am waiting for you to sit clown. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — I will ask my friend Mr. Healy not to strain the 
 discussion. (Loud cheers.) My friend has often deferred to me 
 in the midst of difficulty, and I would ask him not to strain a 
 point of order in this matter in which Mr. Parnell is so deeply 
 concerned, but, on the contrary, to allow the utmost latitude. 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Mr. Chairman, may I make an observation 1 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Certainly. 
 
 Mr. Healy, proceeding, said that, the chairman having initia- 
 ted the discussion, he would say, on the other hand, he differed 
 from their friends who took the opposite view, that they should 
 not allow extraneous matter to be introduced. 
 
 Mr. J. Redmond, alluding to the point of order, appealed to 
 his friend Mr. Healy not to interpose an obstacle. 
 
 Thereupon, 
 
 Mr. Conway rose to order. 
 
 Mr. Healy acceded to the suggestion made by his friend Mr. 
 Redmond, but said that what he would point out was that when 
 an accusation was made yesterday of the most terrible kind against 
 his friend Mr. Sexton and when four members rose in succession 
 to give their testimony for Mr. Sexton they were ruled out. 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— They all spoke. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — No ; you refused to hear any one of them. 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— I did not allow them to interrupt the debate. 
 
 h— 2 
 
 Dec. '2.
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 116 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Mr. Healy now appealed to tho chairman, whose fairnoss he 
 would like to acknowledge, to endeavour, as far as his personal 
 position enabled him, to give them the same liberty of apprecia- 
 tion as they were most happy to accord to him. (Hoar, hear.) 
 
 Mb. W. Redmond wished to ask the chairman if there was any- 
 thing whatever to provent tho four gentlemen who wished to cor- 
 roborate Mr. Sexton from rising in their places in the ordinary 
 course of debate. (Cheers, and cries of " No, no.") 
 
 Mit. Lane.— I did not state at any time that I heard you say you 
 were about to retire, and I distinctly denied on last Wednesday 
 that I myself was in any way influenced by that statement which 
 Mr. Tuohy made to mo in the vote which I gave for your re-olec- 
 tion. I stated distinctly when I came into this room that I was 
 determined, if you presented yourself for re-election, to support 
 you. 
 
 Mr. Parnell thought that Mr. Lane had misunderstood his 
 reference to him. It was not in any way intended to be offensive. 
 
 Mn. Lane said ho had explained the way the matter took place. 
 He felt the tone of Mr. ParnelFs ejaculation very deeply ; so did 
 his colleagues for tho city and county of Cork. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I am a Cork member myself. (Cheers.) 
 
 After further conversation, Mr. Tuohy, at the invitation of the 
 chairman, said ho saw Mr. Campboll at his office on the Saturday 
 before tho House mot, and had a conversation with him about tho 
 position of Mr. Parnell. They were discussing the matter, and 
 Mr. Campbell stated, as his own opinion, and expressly excluded 
 himself from giving it as Mr. ParnelPs opinion or intention, 
 that, in certain contingencies, he thought Mr. Parnell might 
 retire. When he met Mr. Lane in the Lobby, he stated to Mr. 
 Lane, in the first instance, that Mr. Campbell had given this 
 entirely as his own opinion, and that it was not given as Mr. 
 Parnoll's intention at all. 
 
 Mr. Lane.— Quite so. 
 
 Mr. Tuohy added that he had not the least recollection of 
 being asked any question by Mr. Lane afterwards, nor of his 
 having spoken to him from that time to this. 
 
 Mr. LANEwishod to remind Mr. Tuohy of a statement ho made 
 to him before the meeting that Mr. Parnell was about to retire, 
 without any qualification. 
 
 Mr. Tuohy.— No.
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— MR. G. M. BYRNE. 117 
 
 Mr. Lane said that after the meeting was over Mr. Tuohy told 
 him that-he made the statement upon the best authority possible, 
 that of Mr. Campbell. 
 
 Mr. Tuohy said that he had not the least recollection of having 
 met Mr. Lane in the way stated. 
 
 Mr. J. Huntly M'Carthy said that he had no knowledge of 
 what Mr. Tuohy said to Mr. Lane, but in a conversation which 
 he had with Mr. Tuohy, he distinctly understood from him that 
 his impression was that Mr. Parnell would not resign. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Campbell denied that he ever told Mr. Tuohy that he knew 
 Mr. Parnell was going to resign, or that Mr. Parnell told him that 
 he was going to resign. 
 
 Mr. M. J. Kenny said that on Tuesday Mr. Campbell told 
 him that it was Mr. Parnell' s intention to hold on to the leader- 
 ship. 
 
 Mr. G. M. BYRNE.also said that Mr. Campbell on Tuesday 
 stated that Mr. Parnell was going to accept the chairmanship. 
 
 Some discussion then took place with reference to a statement 
 made by Mr. Conway as to a conversation between Mr. Sexton and 
 others in reference to the leadership. 
 
 Mr. G. M. Byrne contended that there should be no unseemly 
 haste in arriving at a division on the subject before them, and de- 
 clared his intention of supporting the chosen leader of the Irish 
 party. 
 
 While Mr. Byrne was speaking, a messenger from the House 
 announced that a division was about to be taken on the Land 
 Purchase Bill, and a suggestion was made that members should 
 take part in the division, but this was met with loud cries of 
 " No, no," while Mr. Leamy said, amid cheers, — " This is the 
 Irish Parliament. Don't mind the English Parliament." 
 
 Mr. G. M. Byrne proceeded with his remarks, and said he was 
 surprised to hear from Mr. Sexton that without Mr. Gladstone 
 they could expect no hope. If Mr. Sexton and Mr. Healy were so 
 frightened or panic-stricken, he was not panic-stricken. (Hear, 
 hear.) He asserted that the letter written by Mr. Gladstone was 
 a great piece of dictation, and he hoped that when the Bishops of 
 Ireland met that week they would see that it was a piece of dicta- 
 tion, and would not allow themselves to be dictated to by any- 
 body. The object of the letter was to intimidate Mr. Parnell and 
 to intimidate the Irish party, and prevent them from electing Mr, 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 118 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Parnoll. (Hoar, hear.) Thoy ought not, he contended, lightly to 
 get rid of Mr. Pamell'a leadership. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mi:. Dalton spoke in favour of Mr. Parnell's retaining tho 
 leadership, stating that he would not vote for " selling " the 
 Irish leader to an English party for any price whatever. With 
 regard to Mr. Parnell's version of what occurred at Hawarden, he 
 believed the Irishman rather than tho Englishman when it came 
 to a question of accuracy between them. As to the danger to the 
 alliance with the Liberal party, he believed the Liberals would 
 stick to Ireland as long as it served themselves and no longer. 
 
 Mil. Harbison addressed the meeting in support of Mr. Par- 
 nell's retention of the leadership. In faco of the position taken 
 up by Mr. Gladstone, it would be madness and folly to abandon 
 tho best leader the Irish people over had for vain and illusory 
 pledges from which it was perfectly easy for Mr. Gladstone to 
 escape. Ho expressed the view that at the next general election 
 they would bo in a better position with Mr. Parnell as their 
 leador, with 85 followers behind him, than they could bo without 
 him. He would probably hold the balance of power and be able 
 to extort from the Liberal party a measure of Home Rule, to which 
 they were every one pledged. 
 
 Mb. Tuite said he had arrived at the decision to voto against 
 Mr. Parnell's leadership with the greatest pain. Tho prosent 
 occasion demanded that every man should do his duty according 
 to his conscience, and it was tho Irish pcoplo that weighed on 
 his heart. Ho.'did not care what wero ,tho consoquences to him- 
 self. 
 
 Mb. T, A. Dickson said the reason which would influenco his 
 vote was solely a moral one, and if he voted for Mr. Parnell's 
 leadership he would bo falso to every religious conviction he 
 ever held during his life. 
 
 Mr. Hayden, speaking in support of Mr. Parnell, believed that 
 the retention of tho member for Cork as leador would not for ono 
 single hour stand in the way of Homo Rule. 
 
 Mr. P. J. O'Brien said the vote that he would give would 
 be wrung from him by the deepest sorrow that the situation should 
 compol him to cast it against the leader whom bo had so loved 
 and respected. 
 
 Mr. Plane said after tho Special Commission he refused to 
 believe that the witnesses of British hire ceased at the Divorce
 
 COL. NOLAN'S AMENDMENT— DIVISION. 119 
 
 Court. Hence it was that he appealed to his colleagues not to 
 recognize any decree from that Court. 
 
 Mr. Jordan said that Mr. Parnell in his speech yesterday- 
 asked who created this position, and he replied that it was not 
 he. (Hear, hear.) If not, who did create the position ? 
 
 A voice. — Mr. Gladstone. 
 
 Mr. Jordan. — Not we. 
 
 Mr. E. Harrington. — All except yourself. 
 
 Mr. Jordan. — And I surely say not the Liberal leader, nor 
 the Liberal party. I say plainly and boldly that it was Mr. 
 Parnell himself, the leader of the party. Continuing, the speaker 
 said he resented the charge of conspiracy. He was a Noncon- 
 formist, but he was prepared to admit that where genuine coin 
 was, there also would be the spurious, and there was a certain 
 amount of canting in all societies and amongst all parties. 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. E. Harrington.— And recanting. 
 
 Mr. Jordan said that he, at any rate, had never recanted. 
 (Cheers.) Whether his constituents approved or disapproved 
 what he did, he had made up his mind, and if they demanded 
 his retirement he should have the greatest pleasure in giving up 
 his trust to the constituency from whom he had received the 
 greatest possible kindness. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I shall now put the amendment : — " That all 
 questions touching the chairmanship of the Irish party be post- 
 poned until the members have had an opportunity of personally 
 ascertaining the views of their constituents, and until the party 
 can meet in Dublin." 
 
 The division was taken as follows : — 
 
 FOR THE AMENDMENT OF COLONEL NOLAN. -29. 
 
 Blane, A. Hayden, L. P. O'Connor, J. 
 
 Byrne, G. M. Kenny, Dr. J. E. O'Hanlon, T. 
 
 Campbell, H. Leamy, E. O'Kelly, J. J. 
 
 Clancy, J. J. M'Carthy, J. H. Parnell, C. S. 
 
 Conway, M. Macdonald, W. A. Power, R. 
 
 Corbet, W. J. M'Kenna, Sir J. Quinn, T. 
 
 Dalton, J. Maguire, J. R. Redmond, J. 
 
 Fitzgerald, J. G. Mahony, P. Redmond, W. 
 
 Harrington, E. Nolan, Colonel Sheil, E. 
 
 Harrison, H. Nolan, J. 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 120 
 
 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 Abraham, W. 
 Barry, J. 
 Chance, P. A. 
 Cummins, A. 
 Condon, T. J. 
 Cox, J. It. 
 Crilly, D. 
 Deasy, J. 
 Dickson, T. A. 
 Esmonde, Sir T. J. 
 Finucane, J. 
 Flynn, J. C. 
 Foley, P. J. 
 Fox, Dr. J. 
 Healy, M. 
 
 AGAINST.-44 
 Healy, T. 
 Jordan, J. 
 Kenny, M. J. 
 Kilbride, D. 
 Knox, H. V. 
 Lane, W. J. 
 M'Oartan, M. 
 M'Carthy, Justin 
 M'Donald, P. 
 MacNeill, J. G. S. 
 Molloy, B. C. 
 Morrogh, J. 
 Murphy, W. 
 O'Brien, J. F. X. 
 O'Brien, P. J. 
 
 O'Connor, A. 
 O'Keeffe, F. A. 
 Pinkerton, J. 
 Power, P. J. 
 Reynolds, W. J. 
 Roche, J. 
 Sexton, T. 
 Sheehan. P. 
 Sheeby, D. 
 Stack, J. 
 Sullivan, D. 
 Tanner, Dr. C. 
 Tuite, J. 
 Webb, A. 
 
 ABSENT.- 
 Harrington, T. 
 Lalor, R. 
 Leahy, J. 
 O'Brien, P. 
 
 -12. 
 
 O'Brien, W. 
 O'Connor, T. P. 
 O'Gorman Mahon, The 
 Sullivan, T. D. 
 
 Carew, J. L. 
 Dillon, J. 
 Gilhooly, J. 
 Gill, T. P. 
 
 Mr. Parnell said, — I find that the noes are 44 and tho ayes 29, 
 so I declare the noes have it by a majority of 15. 
 
 There was no demonstration at the announcement of tho 
 numbers. 
 
 On the motion of Mr. Clancy, tho debate was adjourned till 
 2 o'clock on the following day, Wednesday, December 3. 
 
 A letter from Sir William Harcourt to the Editor of The Times, 
 and also a joint letter from Mr. Henry Labouchere, M.P., and 
 Professor Stuart, M.P., contradicting statements made by Mr. 
 Parnell, were issued on December 2. They were as follows : — 
 " To the Editor of The Times. 
 
 " Sir, — Mr. Parnell has made a statement with reference to me 
 which I think it necessary to contradict, though it has already 
 been declared to be untruo by Mr. Justin M'Carthy, from whom 
 alone Mr. Parnell could have derived any information on the 
 subject. 
 
 " Mr. Parnell has affirmed that I havo stated that ' under no 
 circumstances would I give any promiso, either now or hereafter, 
 to any Irish party.' That assertion of Mr. Parnell's is not true. 
 
 " What really occurred is briefly as follows : — Mr. M'Carthy 
 proposed to mo that I, in concert with Mr. Gladstone and Mr. 
 John Morley, should sign a letter binding ourselves to certain
 
 LETTERS FROM SIR W. HARCOURT AND OTHERS. 121 
 
 terms propounded by Mr. Parnell, which letter was to be kept an 
 inviolable secret. I confess I did not regard this as a practical 
 transaction. I pointed out to Mr. M'Carthy that the condition of 
 secrecy was wholly inadmissible ; that such a document could be 
 of no value to Mr. Parnell or any one else unless its terms were 
 made known ; and that, if it were otherwise, after what had 
 occurred I did not attach any importance to Mr. Parnell's pledge 
 of inviolable secrecy. 
 
 " So far from refusing to hold communication as to the settle- 
 ment of Home Rule with any Irish party, what I stated was 
 exactly the reverse. I told Mr. M'Carthy that the Irish party and 
 the Irish nation possessed a far higher and more lasting security 
 than any secret negotiation or individual pledges, in the un- 
 questionable political fact that no party and no leaders could ever 
 propose, or hope to carry, any scheme of Home Rule which had 
 not the cordial concurrence and support of the Irish nation, as 
 declared by their representatives in Parliament. 
 
 "I added some words of sympathy for the painful difficulties 
 in which the Irish party now found themselves, and said that the 
 present moment of confusion did not afford an occasion on which 
 it was possible to enter with any advantage upon the discussion 
 of the particulars of a future scheme of Home Rule. 
 
 "It will be seen, therefore, that both the spirit and the 
 substance of my reply to Mr. Justin M'Carthy were exactly the 
 opposite of what Mr. Parnell has stated. The other statements 
 of Mr. Parnell in relation to my views and conduct are such as do 
 not seem to me worthy of notice, except so far as to say that they 
 are as opposed to the truth as that which I have just refuted. 
 
 " Your obedient servant, 
 
 " December 2." "W. V. Harcourt. 
 
 " December 2. 
 
 " Sir,— Mr. Parnell is reported to have yesterday informed his 
 colleagues that a section of them had been in treaty with Mr. 
 Labouchere and Professor Stuart to put him out of his position in 
 the Irish Parliamentary party. This statement we desire em- 
 phatically to contradict. Mr. Parnell's attempt to turn off upon 
 us the origin of a movement which arose entirely amongst his own 
 colleagues has not the slightest foundation ; in fact, Mr. Sexton's 
 version of the matter, in his reply to Mr. Parnell, is, so far as we 
 are concerned, quite correct. We were seated together at about 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 Dkc. 2. 
 
 122 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 8 o'clock on Tuesday evening, talking upon another subject, when 
 Mr. Sexton approached us and asked us whether it was true that 
 Mr. Gladstone had put on record his views with respect to Mr. 
 Parnoll's position in a letter addressed to Mr. J. Morley. We 
 ropliod that it was so, and that wo bolieved that the letter had 
 alroady boon sent to the Press for publication. On Mr. Saxton 
 expressing a wish to have a copy of this letter, we procured him 
 ono from the Press agency to which it had been sent. 
 " We are your obodient servants, 
 
 " H. Labotjchekk. 
 "J. Stuaiit." 
 
 NATIONAL LEAGUE MEETING. 
 
 On the evening of the same day the usual fortnightly meeting 
 of the National League was held at the League offices in Dublin. 
 Current events gave it unusual importance, and the attend- 
 ance was the largest which has been seen for some years. Every 
 reference to Mr. Parnell elicited enthusiastic cheers, while tho 
 names of Mossrs. Healy and Sexton were received with groans 
 and expressions of scorn. Several Roman Catholic priests were 
 presont. Mr. Thomas Mayne, an ex-M.P., was elected to 
 preside. 
 
 It was announced that tho organizing committee of the 
 National League had passed tho following resolution the previous 
 night :— " We, the members of the organizing committee of the 
 Irish National League, express our full and complete confidence 
 in Charles Stewart Parnell as leader of the Irish Parliamentary 
 party in tho British House of Commons, ho having been duly 
 electod leader for the presont Session. We deprecate the attempt 
 mado to displace him from a position which he has so usefully 
 and honourably filled." (Cheors.) 
 
 Tho Chairman, referring to tho present crisis, said that the 
 final decision in the matter should rest with tho Irish people, 
 no matter what might be done in Westminster. (Cheers.) The 
 Irish people deniod and repudiated tho right of any Englishman, 
 no matter how high his position, socially or politically, even 
 though ho was a friend of Ireland from his cradle — which Mr. 
 Gladstone was not — (A voice. — "A Coorcionist." Cheers. 
 Another voice. — " The grand old conjuror." Laughter.) He 
 was sorry to see that tho letter of Mr. Clad stone was regarded by
 
 NATIONAL LEAGUE MEETING. 123 
 
 some worthy members of the Irish party — (Loud cries of " No, 
 no, no," aud a voice. — "Unworthy members." Cheers.) 
 
 Mk. M'Cakthy, Drogheda. — " Place hunters," and a voice.— 
 " Chief Justice Healy (hisses), who sold the interests of Father 
 M'Fadden." (Loud cheers.) 
 
 The Chairman said these men had not looked upon the letter as 
 
 they in Ireland did. The issues now before the people were well 
 
 defined. These issues were two. The first was that the Irish party 
 
 had become a portion of the Liberal party (cries of " No, no, 
 
 no ") whether tail or head. That was the issue raised by Mr. 
 
 Gladstone, from whom they would be bound in future to take 
 
 their commands, and the first essential to the alliance between 
 
 the two parties was that they should throw overboard the man 
 
 who had made that alliance a possibility. (Cheers.) They 
 
 would get nothing from either of the great English parties for 
 
 love. (Hear, hear.) They would get the best terms from the 
 
 party who came in first at the next election, and, as to the 
 
 Liberal alliance, he felt that Mr. Thomas Sexton (hisses) did 
 
 not believe what he said when he stated that the only hope for 
 
 Home Rule was an alliance with the Liberal party. He (the 
 
 chairman) believed he was the only gentleman present who had 
 
 been a member of the Irish Parliamentary party, and after nine 
 
 years of personal contact with Mr. Parnell he could tell them 
 
 that, if Home Rule was to be won in their time, it could only be 
 
 won by Charles Stewart Parnell. (Cheers.) He knew every 
 
 member of the Irish Parliamentary party, and he could tell them 
 
 that there was not one out of the 8G, except Mr. Parnell, who 
 
 could lead the party. (Cheers.) In the black history of Ireland 
 
 he could tell them, as one who had mixed in private and public 
 
 conversation with Mr. Parnell, there never was a man who had 
 
 done so much for the Irish cause as their great leader. (Cheers.) 
 
 No Washington, no Napoleon, ever did so much for his native 
 
 land as that done by the Irish leader. No matter what came, 
 
 whether they got Home Rule in seven weeks or seven years, 
 
 Charles Stewart Parnell was the man that would lead them. 
 
 Me. J. Shanks, T.C., said he was glad that his first act as a 
 member of the central branch of the Irish National League was 
 to propose a vote of confidence in Mr. Parnell. He moved the 
 adoption of the following telegram : — 
 
 " To Parnell, M.P., House of Commons, London. — The Central 
 
 Dec. 2.
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 124 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Branch of the Irish National League sends greeting to Charles 
 Stewart Parnell, the elected leader of the Irish people, and 
 assures him of their undivided allegiance to him and the Irish 
 cause, and fully confirms the resolution passed by the organizing 
 committee at their meeting last night. — Thomas Mayne, Chair- 
 man." (Cheers.) 
 
 The Rev. Father Behan and Mr. Amos Varian.— No, no. 
 
 At this point there was considerable excitement and confusion, 
 the cheers for Parnell being loud and repeated, while the shouts 
 of " No, no," were distinctly heard. Order was not restored until 
 after repeated appeals from the chairman. Several panes of glass 
 were broken in one of the doors, owing to the great crush and ex- 
 citement. Mr. Shanks resuming, said that no doubt the offence 
 charged against Mr. Parnell was a very unfortunate one. This 
 announcement was received with cries of " What about Sex- 
 ton?" 
 
 The Rev. Father Hurley, of Kildare, seconded the resolution, 
 and said ho had pleasure in raising his voice for God and 
 country, and in defence of the deliverer of this country, Mr. 
 Parnell. (Loud cheers.) He admired that maxim of O'Connelh^ 
 Religion from Rome, politics from home (applause)— and referring 
 to tho Norman invasion, he said that the people, having listened 
 to tho voice of the hierarchy, had brought ruin to the country. 
 (Loud cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Oldham supported the motion. He said that if tho Bishops 
 had expressed an opinion on this question a week ago the people 
 would have regarded their pronouncement on tho moral aspect of 
 the caso ; but after the publication of Mr. Gladstone's letter, this 
 hud become a political question, and a political question it re- 
 mained to-day, and any position that the Bishops might take 
 now must be put into the scale as a political weapon. (Cheers.) 
 Ho believed that the peoplo could within tho next month put 
 sound material into the Irish party, and then they could present 
 to the enemy a solid Irish square. Mr. Baker also supported the 
 motion. 
 
 The Chairman then announcod that it was desirablo to tele- 
 graph tho resolution to Mr. Parnell at onco (Loud cheers.) He 
 declared the resolution carried with acclamation. (Rev. Father 
 I *> i : i i \\, shouting.— No, it is not passed with acclamation.) At 
 this announcement tho cheering for Parnell recommenced, and
 
 PROCEDURE— CONVERSATION. 125 
 
 amid cheering for Mr. T. Harrington and Mr. J. J. Clancy, the 
 meeting adjourned. 
 
 Dec. 2. 
 
 MEETING OF THE IRISH PARTY— FIFTH DAY. 
 
 The meeting of the Irish Nationalist party, which was ad- j, „ 
 journed from the night of Tuesday, December 2, was resumed on 
 Wednesday, December 3, in Committee-room No. 15, the members 
 assembling at 2 o'clock. Mr. Parnell appeared to be in the best of 
 spirits, and expressed the utmost confidence as to the result of 
 the contest in which he is engaged. When he entered the Com- 
 mittee-room at 2 o'clock a considerable number of members had 
 assembled. During the afternoon there was a full attendance. 
 Mr. Parnell presided. 
 
 At 20 minutes past 2 Mr. Parnell said, — I think we have 
 enough members present to proceed with our business. Mr. 
 Campbell will go on reading telegrams. But first I ought to state 
 that I communicated with the Serjeant-at-Arms to know how long 
 we might remain here this evening after the rising of the House, 
 and he sent me a message to inform me that we might remain 
 until 7 o'clock, and not any later. 
 
 Mr. Healy.— I would like to see them sending the police to 
 turn us out. I think, Sir, it would be well for the Whips to in- 
 form the Serjeant-at-Arms 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— Mr. Campbell must go on with the reading 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Inform the Serjeant-at-Arms that this party will 
 decide for itself when we shall leave the House of Commons. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I shall not undertake to send any impertinent 
 message to the Serjeant-at-Arms or any other member of the House 
 of Commons, which has granted us 'the privilege of using this 
 committee room. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — It is no privilege ; it is a right. 
 
 Mr. O'Kelly. — I understood we agreed that the proceedings of 
 this meeting should be conducted on Parliamentary lines. The 
 rule of the House of Commons is that all business should cease 
 at 6 o'clock on Wednesday, and it will cease here as well as in 
 other parts of the House. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — And there is another rule that the business of 
 the House should begin on Wednesday at 12 o'clock, and we did 
 not begin until 2 o'clock.
 
 Dec. 3. 
 
 12G MEETINGS OF TIIE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Me. Parnell. — You could have raised that last night, whon 
 tho hour for commencement was discussed, and, as I understood, 
 agreed to by the unanimous wish of tho meeting. 
 
 M u. Sexton. — I trust that the business of the meeting will 
 proceed, and if any member wishes- to prolong tho period of 
 sitting it can bo raised at 7 o'clock, but at present tho meeting 
 should proceed. 
 
 Mn. Parnell. — I merely thought it my duty to put you in 
 possession of the information at my command. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — I thought it my duty to put the meeting in 
 possession of my views too. 
 
 Mr. Campbell then proceeded to read the telegrams. 
 
 Mu. Clancy, who resumed the debate, said that the 
 last week had been to him a week of absoluto torture, 
 and though ho had had some difliculty in making up his 
 mind he had made it up at last. Ho disclaimed any 
 intention to dictate to tho party in his Leinster Hall speech. Ho 
 supported Mr. Parnell on that occasion on several grounds, one 
 of which was that ho believed then, as he believed now, that 
 Mr. Parnell had notceasod to possess all tho qualifications for a 
 leader. (Cheers.) Then came Mr. Gladstone's letter, which 
 staggered him. He felt that a great doal of harm had been done, 
 and that possibly the Homo Rule cause might be injured by Mr. 
 Parnell's retention of the leadership. Ho had been induced 
 to give his vote by the belief that all they had gained in recent 
 years, including the conversion of Mr. Gladstone and the Liberal 
 alliance, had been gained by tho manifestation of tho absoluto 
 independence of tho Irish party. Had they not shown in a 
 hundred ways that they wore independent? All tho concessions 
 of recent years would bo still in nubibus, and Mr. Gladstone's 
 conversion to Homo Rule would still bo in the womb of the future. 
 (Hear, hoar.) He was not prepared to characterize Mr. Gladstone's 
 letter as an opon and barefaced effort at dictation. (Hear, hear.) 
 But no matter how mildly or considerately worded that letter, tho 
 effect of it was to tell them that, if they did not got rid of Mr. 
 Parnell, they should get rid of Mr. Gladstone. (Hoar, hear.) 
 That seemed to him, whether Mr. Gladstone intended it or not, to 
 be an absolute threat, to which the representatives of Ireland 
 could not, without sacrificing the highest interests of the country, 
 have submitted for one moment. (Cheers.) By deposing Mr.
 
 MR. CLANCY'S AMENDMENT— MR. CLANCY. 127 
 
 Parnell they would destroy not only the independence but tho 
 unity of the party (hear, hear), thus bringing back the internal 
 dissensions which for generations past had kept them helplessly 
 at the feet of the English. In his opinion, if Mr. Parnell was 
 deposed there would no longer be a united Irish party. (Hear, 
 hear.) He contended that they could not pluck Mr. Parnell from 
 his position as leader of tho party without causing a terrible con- 
 flict. (Cheers.) It could not be done except after a storm which 
 would shake the whole Irish world. (Cheers.) His own desire 
 was to avoid a conflict which he was quite cortain would postpone 
 even an attempted settlement of the Irish question for the pre- 
 sent generation. (Cheers.) Another consideration with him was 
 one which had arisen out of the circumstances of Saturday 
 night's meeting at the Westminster Palace Hotel. He need not 
 narrate once again the facts on that subject. Mr. Parnell offered 
 to retire if Mr. Gladstone, Sir W. Harcourt, and Mr. John Morley 
 would give certain guarantees. Mr. Gladstone's reply might be 
 summed up by saying that he refused to answer. (Hear, hear.) 
 Mr. Gladstone said in the first place that he did not think it 
 right to interfere in the internal discussions of the Irish party. 
 He had, however, interfered with them already. (Hear, hear.) 
 He had also said that he could not treat with the leader of the 
 Irish party, and he himself could not understand why Mr. Glad- 
 stone had refused to treat with Mr. M'Carthy. 
 
 Mil. M'Carthy said that he told Mr. Gladstone that he did 
 not come from the Irish party, but from a hastily-summoned 
 meeting. 
 
 Mr. Clancy said he did not think he had said anything con- 
 trary to that. Mr. Gladstone had also said that he could not 
 give the guarantee because it could not be kept secret. Would he 
 give it to be made public ? Why should it not be made public ? 
 (Loud cheers.) It could not be kept private, and he himself in- 
 tended to ask them to insist that it should be made public. Mr. 
 Gladstone had made the present situation in which they found 
 themselves. 
 
 Mr. M. J. Kenny. — Not in any sense. 
 
 Mr. Cla>"cy. — In the name of God, what did you mean by your 
 vote of Tuesday 1 'What did you mean, after giving that vote, by 
 coming down and proposing to reverse it after Mr. Gladstone's 
 letter ? Proceeding, Mr. Clancy contended that it was Mr. 
 
 Dec. 3.
 
 Dec. 3. 
 
 128 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Gladstone's letter which caused many mombers to alter their 
 opinions. Mr. Gladstone made tho situation and ho could end 
 it (Mk. l'\i;\ ELL.— Hear, hoar), and tho millions of the Irish race 
 throughout tho world would convict him of insincerity if ho stood 
 in this tremendous crisis upon a point of punctilio or etiquette 
 or technicalities. A nation's cause was at stake, (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mil. Parnell. — Two nations. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Dr. Tanner. — One man. 
 
 Mil. Clancy said that Mr. Gladstone should come down from 
 his high place when he knew ho could settle the question. If Mr. 
 Gladstone did not do it he himself could only come to the con- 
 clusion that he had not made up his mind to give them a satis- 
 factory measure of Homo Rule, and that they would lose nothing 
 by retaining Mr. Parnell and losing tho Liberal alliance. He 
 himself would not sit in an Irish Parliament which had not tho 
 control of the constabulary. That question was at the very 
 bottom of their demand. (Cheers.) They also wanted the settle- 
 ment of the land question in their hands. Mr. Gladstone had 
 no land policy ; he had not even the policy of voting for tho 
 present Bill ; he was going to vote against it. Tho Liberal party 
 was going to vote against it. 
 
 Mr. T. Healy — So did we last night. 
 
 Mr. Clancy declared that the Liberal party at present had no 
 land policy, and as the Irish party had a distinct policy they 
 were entitled to ask Mr. Gladstone what his policy was. These 
 matters having been made public, It was imperative that the 
 matter should be settled. They were bound to get this thing 
 cleared up. If they failed they ceased to be not only an inde- 
 pendent party but a Nationalist party. (Cheers.) He appealed 
 to his friends to treat this matter seriously and considerately, 
 and to bring to an end, if possible, this terrible crisis which had 
 been wringing tho heart out of them all tho week. He begged their 
 acceptance of tho amendment he was about to move. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — Before Mr. Clancy concludes, as he has made 
 a most important proposal — namely, that certain suggestions 
 should be made to Mr. Gladstone as to the declaration of his 
 policy on vital questions in regard to Ireland — I presume Mr. 
 Clancy is authorized by Mr. Parnell to make some further com- 
 munication. 
 
 Mr. Clancy. — Certainly ; but let me understand you exactly.
 
 MR. CLANCY'S AMENDMENT— MR. CLANCY. 129 
 
 Mr. John Redmond. — Do I understand you to ask, Mr. Sexton, 
 if Mr. Clancy is entitled to make a further communication that, 
 if these assurances are of a satisfactory character, Mr. Parnell 
 will resign the leadership of the party ? 
 
 Mr. Sexton.— My inquiry was directed to that point. 
 
 Mr. Redmond. — Well, that is so. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Clancy. — I have authority for stating that, if assurances 
 are given after the manner suggested in this amendment, 
 Mr. Parnell will retire. (Cheers.) The amendment was as 
 follows : — 
 
 " That, in view of the difference of opinion that has arisen 
 between Mr. Gladstone and Mr. Parnell as to the accuracy of 
 Mr. Parnell's recollection of the suggestions offered at Hawarden 
 in reference to suggested changes in and departures from the 
 Home Rule Bill of 1886 on the subject of the control of the 
 constabulary and the settlement of the land question, the Whips 
 of the party be instructed to obtain from Mr. Gladstone, Mr. 
 John Morley, and Sir William Harcouit, for the information of 
 the party, before any further consideration of this question, what 
 their views are with regard to these two vital points." (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy. — I wish to put a question to the meeting as 
 a matter of procedure. I am sorry Mr. Parnell is not here. I 
 speak in presence of the Press, but I would suggest that, if 
 necessary, the representatives of the Press here present should 
 be asked to suspend their report upon any particular point, 
 because I think it would be most inexpedient that our discussion 
 on this matter, in case we accepted the amendment, should go 
 before the world, and that the whole world should know 
 practically the result of our Cabinet Council. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Clancy. — I think the suggestion you are now making is 
 so important that Mr. Parnell ought to be present. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell was then sent for. 
 
 After some discussion Mr. Sexton proposed that the discus- 
 sion should be adjourned until noon on the following day, for the 
 purpose of discussing Mr. Clancy's amendment. Mr. Parnell 
 having returned and resumed the chair, Mr. Sexton, addressing 
 him, referred to the terms of Mr. Clancy's amendment, urging 
 that the amendment did not bear immediately or obviously on 
 their proceedings at the conference during the week, but the state- 
 ment of Mr. Clancy and Mr. Redmond, that if the communica- 
 
 i 
 
 Dec. 3.
 
 Dice. 3. 
 
 L30 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 tions were satisfactory Mr. Parnoll would retire, had given him 
 much gratification. It enabled him to hope that Mr. Parnoll 
 would voluntarily resign his position at the head of tho party, 
 under circumstances which would enable thoso who differed now 
 to agree that ho had made his retirement from public life the 
 means of securing an advantage to his country. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Healy, who spoke with much emotion, said that, if Mr. 
 Parnell felt able to meet the party on the points put forward, his 
 voice would be tho first, at tho very earliest moment possible, 
 consonant with the liberties of his country, to call him back to 
 his proper place as loader of the Irish race. (Loud cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Chance submitted, in opposing tho adjournment, that Mr. 
 Clancy's proposal raised a false issue, and could by no possible 
 chance lead to a settlement. (Cries of " No, no.") 
 
 Mr. M. J. Kenny said ho fully adopted the opinions of Mr. 
 Sexton. 
 
 Mr. Parnell said Mr. Sexton had asked a practical question, 
 as to whether his retirement from the leadership of the party and 
 from public life would be governed by the decision of tho party or 
 his (Mr. Parnell's) own view as to the satisfactory nature of tho 
 replies of those statesmen to the questions on tho two vital points 
 of the control of the Irish constabulary and future powers of tho 
 Irish Parliament regarding the land question. That was a sudden 
 question, and it would be fair to give him 24 hours to consider the 
 subject between then and noon on Thursday. (Hoar, hear.) 
 
 On the motion of Mr. Sexton the meeting then stood adjourned 
 until noon on the following day, Thursday, December 4. 
 
 DECLARATION OF THE IRISH ROMAN CATHOLIC 
 HIERARCHY. 
 
 On this day, Wednesday, December 3, tho following important 
 document was issued by tho Standing Committee of the Roman 
 Catholic Archbishops and Bishops of Ireland, and approved by 
 tho undermentioned Prelates : — 
 
 " Address of tho Standing Committee of tho Archbishops and 
 Bishops of Ireland to the clergy and laity of their flocks : — 
 '•' Very Rev. and Rev. Fathers and Fellow-countrymen,— Tho 
 
 Bishops of Ireland can no longer keep silent in the presence of
 
 DECLARATION OF IRISH BISHOPS. 131 
 
 the all-engrossing question which agitates, not Ireland and 
 England alone, but every spot where Irishmen have found a home. 
 That question is — Who is to be in future the leader of the Irish 
 peoplo, or, rather, who is not to be their leader ? Without hesita- 
 tion or doubt, and in the plainest possible terms, we give it as our 
 unanimous judgment that, whoever else is fit to fill that highly 
 responsible post, Mr. Parnell decidedly is not. As pastors of 
 this Catholic nation we do not base this our judgment and solemn 
 declaration on political grounds, but simply and solely on the 
 facts and circumstances revealed in the London Divorce Court. 
 After the verdict given in that Court we cannot regard Mr. 
 Parnell in any other light than as a man convicted of one of the 
 gravest offences known to religion and society, aggravated as it is 
 in his case by almost every circumstance that could possibly 
 attach to it so as to give to it a scandalous pre-eminence in guilt 
 and shame. Surely Catholic Ireland, so eminently conspicuous 
 for its virtue and the purity of its social life, will not accept as 
 its leader a man who is dishonoured and wholly unworthy of 
 Christian confidence. Furthermore, as Irishmen devoted to our 
 country, eager for its elevation, and earnestly intent on securing 
 for it the benefits of domestic legislation, we cannot but be 
 influenced by the conviction that the continuance of Mr. Parnell 
 as leader of even a section of the Irish part} 7 must have the effect 
 of disorganizing our ranks, and ranging as in hostile camps tho 
 hitherto united forces of our country. Confronted with the pro- 
 spect of contingencies so disastrous, we see nothing but inevit- 
 able defeat at the approaching general election, and, as a result, 
 Home Rule indefinitely postponed, coercion perpetuated, the 
 hands of the evictor strengthened, and the tenants already 
 evicted left without the shadow of a hope of being ever restored to 
 their homes. 
 
 "Your devoted servants in Christ, 
 
 " 4-Michael Logue, Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of 
 All Ireland. 
 
 " +Wm. J. Walsh, Archbishop of Dublin and Primate of 
 Ireland. 
 
 " +T. W. Croke, Archbishop of Cashel. 
 
 " + Jno. MacEvilly, Archbishop of Tuam. 
 
 " + Jas. Donnelly, Bishop of Clogher. 
 
 " + James Lynch, Bishop of Kildare and Leighlin. 
 
 1-2 
 
 Dec. 3.
 
 Dec. 3. 
 
 Dkc. 4. 
 
 132 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 " + Francis J. MacCormack, Bishop of Galway and Kilmac- 
 
 duagh. 
 " +John MacCartiiy, Bishop of Cloyne. 
 " +\Ym. Fitzgerald, Bishop of Ross. 
 " + Bartholomew Woodlock, Bishop of Ardagh and Clon- 
 
 macnoiso. 
 " + Thomas Alphonsus O'Callaghan, Bishop of Cork. 
 " + James Browne, Bishop of Ferns. 
 " + Abraham Brownrigg, Bishop of Ossory. 
 " + Patrick M' A lister, Bishop of Down and Connor. 
 " 4- Patrick O'Donnell, Bishop of Raphoe. 
 " + John Lyster, Bishop of Achonry. 
 " + Edward M'Gennis, Bishop of Kilmore. 
 " + Thomas M'Givern, Coadjutor Bishop of Dromore. 
 " + John K. O'Doherty, Bishop of Derry. 
 " +M10HAE1 Comerford, Coadjutor Bishop of Kildare and 
 
 Leighlin. 
 " + Thomas M'Redmond, Coadjutor Bishop of Killaloe. 
 " + Nicholas Donnell, Bishop of Canea. 
 " Dublin, Dec. 3, 1890." 
 
 MEETING OF THE IRISH PARTY— SIXTH DAY. 
 
 Tho meeting of the Irish party was resumed at half-past 12 on 
 Thursday, December 4. Mr. Parnell took tho chair, and pro- 
 posed to go on reading the telegrams. 
 
 Mr. Sexton suggested that they should avoid reading docu- 
 ments of a necessarily contentious description. 
 
 Mr. Parnell assented, and said,— I understood from you, Mr. 
 Sexton, that the condition that I should retire from public life was 
 not insisted upon. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — I said nothing about public life, nothing what- 
 ever. (Hoar, hoar.) I never had in contemplation in the pro- 
 ceedings of this party that this party should dictate anything 
 more than its own chairmanship. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I think that wo had better have the resolution 
 read, and then I shall be in a position to make my statement. 
 
 Me. T. Healy. — I would suggest, as the resolution has not been 
 put from the chair, and as we agreed practically to interrupt the
 
 MR. CLANCY'S AMENDMENT— MR. PARNELL. 133 
 
 proceedings on a statement from Mr. Redmond, who also was 
 allowed to interpolate his observations — 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Very well, it need not be necessary to read the 
 resolution. The consideration which I have been able to give to 
 this most important matter has been assisted by a consultation 
 with my friends, and I may say in the tirst place that Mr. 
 Sexton will be the first to admit that he asks us to some extent to 
 enlarge the scope of the amendment as it was put before the meet- 
 ing by Mr. Clancy. He asks me, in reference to these two most 
 important requirements of his — requirements that I consider he 
 is perfectly entitled to make, that I do not in the slightest degree 
 object to his making, and that I am glad that he has made — he 
 asks me to state that, in the event of the information to be ob- 
 tained from Mr. Gladstone, Mr. Morley, and Sir William Har. 
 court being satisfactory to the party, I should consider then that 
 the question of the chairmanship had been determined. I wish 
 to show him in what way that request enlarges the resolution or 
 the amendment. The amendment requires that we are to ascer- 
 tain, before any further consideration of this question of the 
 chairmanship, the views of Mr. Gladstone, Mr. Morley, and Sir 
 William Harcourt for the information of the party with regard to 
 these two vital points. Mr. Sexton asks me before we have ob- 
 tained this information to bind myself practically to accept with- 
 out any further consideration of the question the definite 
 judgment of the party upon the matter. Now, I wish to say with 
 regard to that proposal at once that, having placed myself 
 in the hands of my friends in regard to this matter at 
 the commencement, I could not agree to surrender my re- 
 sponsibility or any part of my responsibility. My respon* 
 sibility is derived from you to some extent, to a large extent, 
 but it is also derived from a long train of circumstances and 
 events in which many of you, and I speak to you with great 
 respect, have had no share. My position has been granted to 
 me, not because I am the mere leader of a Parliamentary 
 paity, bat because I am the leader of the Irish nation. 
 (Hear, hear.) It has been granted to me on account of the services 
 which I have rendered in building up this party, in assimi- 
 lating prejudices, in smoothing differences of opinion, and in 
 keeping together the discordant elements of our race within 
 the bounds of moderation all over the world. And you, gentle- 
 
 Dec. 4.
 
 Dkc. 4. 
 
 134 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 men, know, and I know, that thoro is no man living, if I am 
 gone, who. could succeed in reconciling the feelings of the Irish 
 people to the provisions of the Hawarden proposals. (Hear, hear.) 
 I havo explained to you why I cannot surrender my responsi- 
 bility in this matter, but I will go on to say, further, that, since 
 you ask me to doclaro beforehand my views upon these 
 important questions, since you ask me to surrender to 
 you beforehand my judgment upon these matters, I claim 
 that this party in tho faco of their constituencies should 
 by solemn resolution announco what their judgment is. 
 (Cheers.) While not apprehending, as I said yesterday, any 
 difference of opinion (hear, hoar), while believing as I do 
 that I shall be found certainly not in advance of the senti- 
 ment of the party upon these matters, I claim that you, sinco 
 you wish to take from me the responsibility which to-day is mine 
 and which can only be surrendered by my act (cheers), that you 
 should state, for the information of your constituents and for my 
 information, what your definite judgment is with regard to tho 
 two important questions of the control of the constabulary and 
 the land question. ((Jheers.) In order to facilitate your coming 
 to a conclusion, I have drafted a resolution, which, if you wish 
 and think proper, I will move : — 
 
 " That, in the opinion of the Irish Parliamentary party, no 
 Homo Rule Bill will be satisfactory or acceptable to the Irish 
 people which will not confer the immediate control of the Irish 
 police on the executive responsible to the Irish Parliament ; and, 
 secondly, which does not confer upon tho Irish Parliament full 
 power to deal with the land quostion." 
 
 I put this resolution before you for your consideration, for your 
 judgment. It is, of course, capable, if you desire it, of amend- 
 ment and of modification, but let me lay some further considera- 
 tions bofore you. My word has been grievously challenged with 
 regard to the accuracy of my statement as to the Hawarden com- 
 munications, but no attempt has been made to contradict mo 
 (hear, hear), no attempt has been made to say in what singlo 
 respect inaccuracy exists, no attempt has been made to show, if 
 there is inaccuracy, what tho correction for the inaccuracy ought 
 to be. In other words, although I havo been contradicted by a 
 wholcsalo system of slander, we havo not been informed, Ave
 
 MR. CLANCY'S AMENDMENT— MR. PARNELL. 135 
 
 have not been told, that the constabulary will be given. Now, 
 gentlemen, it is for you to act in this matter. You aro dealing 
 with a man who is an unrivalled sophist 
 
 Mu. Barry.— Which one ? 
 
 Mn. Parnell. — The grand old man. 
 
 Mu. Barry. — I don't believe it. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — You are dealing with a man with whom and to 
 whom it is as impossible to give a direct answer to a plain and 
 simple question, as it is for me impossible to give an indirect 
 answer to a plain and simple question. (" Oh, oh," and 
 " Hear, hear.") You are dealing with a man who is capable of 
 appealing to the constituencies for a majority which will make 
 him independent of both the Irish party and the Tory party at the 
 next general election. And if I surrender to him, if I give up my 
 position to him, if you throw me to him (" No, no," " Order," 
 and cheers), I say, gentlemen, that it is your bounden duty to 
 see that you secure value for the sacrifice. (Cheers.) How can 
 you secure this value ? You can secure this value by making up 
 your minds as to what these provisions in the Bill should be, 
 and by going to him as the representatives of the Irish people 
 and by telling him that this is your mind. Mr. Healy reminded 
 me the other day that I had agreed to the provisions of the Home 
 Rule Bill of 1886, under which the control of the constabulary 
 was not immediately granted to the Irish Parliament. Well, 
 gentlemen, Mr. Healy will also remember tbat just before the 
 introduction of that Bill I called together a meeting of my lead- 
 ing colleagues, of whom he was one, and submitted the provisions 
 of that Bill to them as soon as I knew what they were going to 
 be. Mr. O'Kelly and Mr. Sexton, I think, were also present, so 
 was Mr. Michael Davitt. I took counsel with all the men of 
 authority, so far as I could reach them at the moment, in the 
 Irish party. I said : — 
 
 " Here is the Bill. It is a Parliament hit, it is nothing more. 
 I have been told to-day by Mr. Gladstone that it is for us to 
 take or reject that Bill, and if we undertake the responsibility of 
 leaving it, he will make a statement in the House of Commons 
 to-night declaring that he can do no more, and that the respon- 
 sibility and the want of solution for the Irish question must rest 
 upon us." 
 I said : — "Here is the Bill with all its defects, absence cf suffi- 
 
 Dec. 4
 
 Dec. i. 
 
 136 MEETINGS OF THE I1USTI PARTY. 
 
 cient control of tho police ; will you take it or will you leave 
 it/" And my colleagues said to me that they would accept it 
 pro tanto, reserving for Committee the right of enforcing and, if 
 necessary, reconsidering their position with regard to these 
 important questions. It is not fair to throw upon my shoulders 
 the whole burden and responsibility of these matters. (Hear, 
 hear.) It is not fair, gentlemen, it is atrociously unfair, to use 
 against me passages of acquiescence, general acquiescence, very 
 general acquiescence, with regard to the details of this measure 
 in tho bygone days. I can ,say this — that nothing I have ever 
 done or said upon this or any other Irish question has been 
 spoken or done otherwise than out of an earnest regard for the 
 interests of the people. (Hear, hear.) I can say that I havo 
 not been governed by any personal consideration whatever, and 
 that if anything or any principle has been sacrificed, I havo 
 always been willing to offer myself up as the first victim. My 
 responsibility ceases when your responsibility commences. Con- 
 sider well before you assume it. 1 gladly divest myself of it. 
 It will no longer bo possible for you to say to tho consti- 
 tuencies, " Parnell betrayod us by entering into a treaty 
 with this Grand Old Man behind our backs, and kopt it 
 secret from us until the last moment, and then divulged it for 
 his own purposes." You will not be able to put upon my back 
 tho responsibility for my shortcomings, and Heaven knows they 
 are many and great. You will not be able to point to this omis- 
 sion or to that deficiency in the future Irish measures as attri- 
 butable to my neglect or to my weakness, whichever you like to 
 call it, because whatever will have been done you will havo done 
 it yourselves. I was willing— and this is the extent of my gnilt, 
 and I admit it froely — I was willing to havo done my best to recon- 
 cile tho prejudices of the Irish people in reference to the control 
 of tho Irish police. I was willing to have risked my position in 
 that direction ; to have done perhaps what I ought not to havo 
 done — to have gone beyond my duty ; and Mr. Gladstone knows 
 woll that in striking me down ho strikes down the only man who 
 could make that measure acceptable to Ireland. (Cheers.) And 
 was I under these circumstances to keep my lips sealed and 
 closed ? Was the Hawardcn seal to bo kopt on my mouth after 
 Mr. Gladstono himself had put it out of my power to remain any 
 longer silent (hear, hear) with any sort of regard to the interests
 
 MR. CLANCY'S AMENDMENT— MR. PARNELL. 137 
 
 of Treland and my public duty ? Now, I know this old gentle- 
 man well. It is not sufficient here to call him a grand old man ; 
 that is not sufficient adulation to offer at the shrine of the Glad- 
 stonian greatness. I know not what further incense to offer, but 
 I do say this — having been in communication with him since 
 1882 upon many important subjects and topics connected with 
 Ireland — I can tell you, gentlemen, I have never yet succeeded 
 in getting a straight answer to a single straight question from 
 him, and they have been many and numerous that had to be laid 
 before him. I am quite willing, under those circumstances, to 
 resign to you the task of negotiation, but not until I see you have 
 recognized, and that you fully understand, your own responsi- 
 bility. That is my view. (Mr. Parnell again read his resolution.) 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy.— That is an amendment to Mr. Barry's 
 resolution. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — It occurs to me at first sight that the better 
 course to adopt to conduct the discussion on this subject is, as a 
 substantive motion, as having been called for by the amendment 
 of Mr. John Clancy, that motion being kept alive as well as the 
 question connected with it. I beg leave to say, in conclusion, 
 that if the Irish party adopt my resolution on this subject, and 
 take the necessary steps to ascertain from Mr. Gladstone, Mr. 
 John Morley, and Sir William Harcourt what their views are with 
 regard to these two vital points, and if the party, after considera- 
 tion and consultation, should decide that these views are in 
 accordance with the views of the party on these points as above 
 expressed, then I shall place myself in the hands of my friends 
 and retire from the position of chairman of the party. I would 
 propose, after the first resolution is adopted, or anything re- 
 sembling it is adopted, to move a further, with regard to a matter 
 of detail, in these terms ; — 
 
 " That a sub-committee be appointed by the party, consisting 
 of the Whips, of five members from those who were in a majority, 
 and of five members from those who were in a minority on 
 Colonel Nolan's amendment, and that to those people be in- 
 trusted the duty of selecting from amongst themselves three de- 
 legates from each side to seek an interview with Mr. Gladstone, 
 Sir William Harcourt, and Mr. Morley for the purpose of ascer- 
 taining whether their views are in accordance with 'the views of 
 the party on those points as above expressed, and whether they 
 
 Dec. 4.
 
 Dec. 4. 
 
 133 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH TARTY. 
 
 will agree to embody those views in their Home Rule Bill, and 
 make them vital to the measure." 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy said he had heard with considerable amaze- 
 ment the oxtracrdinary speech just delivered. They were placed 
 in a remarkable position. They had adjourned the meeting until 
 that day in order to ascertain whether the proposal put forward 
 by Mr. Clancy was really a bond-Jide one. They were prepared 
 to accept the principle of Mr. Clancy's amendment. They were 
 prepared to stand or fall 
 
 Mk. Parnell.— Excuse me, Mr. Healy, there must be some- 
 thing before the chair. 
 
 Mk. T. M. Healy.— Thero is your speech, and I will answer 
 it. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I think Mr. Clancy's amondment should be 
 seconded first. 
 
 Mr. Campkell. — There is nothing before the meeting. 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy (warmly). — I am before the meeting. 
 
 Mr. Camprell. — 1 repeat there is nothing beforo the chair. 
 (Hoar, hear.) 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy.— I am boforo the chair. (" Hear, hear," 
 and cries of " Order.") 
 
 Mr. Campbell. — To put the matter in order, I beg leave to 
 second the amendment of Mr. Clancy. 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy, continuing, said he would invite their 
 friends on the opposite side, oven Mr. Campbell, to show somo 
 little sense of discretion. His sido wero prepared to accept the 
 principle of Mr. Clancy's amendment— namely, to obtain from 
 the Liberal party satisfactory assurances on the two points 
 alleged by Mr. Parnell to be in contest. What would follow 1 
 When their Whips came back from the Liberal leaders, who was 
 to decide whether the interview was satisfactory or not 1 They 
 put the plain question to Mr. Parnell, and he asked — and it was 
 a very natural request — that he should bo allowed 24 hours to 
 determine it. 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— I only took 12 hours. 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy.— I am sure we would bo very glad to have 
 granted you 24 days. Mr. Parnell ha3 refused 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I have not. That is an entire misrepresenta- 
 tion of my position. 
 
 Mr, T. M. Healy. — I am putting the view as your speech
 
 MR. CLANCY'S AMENDMENT— MR. T. HEALY. 139 
 
 struck me, and I am endeavouring to do so against a flood of 
 obstruction. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — If Mr. Healy is going to complain of the tone 
 of my speech 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy. — I am not going to make any complaint. 
 T am about to address myself to the political ingredients of the 
 speech and not its tone. Mr. Pamell has refused to submit this 
 matter to the judgment of his party. (Cries of " No, no."), 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Not at all. Nothing of the sort. 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy. — And he has proposed new conditions. 
 (" Hear, hear," and " No, no.") They had adjourned last night 
 in the hope of peace, on a distinct proposal made by him to know 
 whether Mr. Parnell in this matter was going to rely not only on 
 the judgment of his party by 44 votes to 29, but on the judgment 
 of men, including Mr. Richard Power, Dr. Kenny, Mr. Leamy, 
 Mr. Conway, and of leading friends on the other side. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Certainly, they are all entitled to judge it just 
 as well as I am. 
 
 Mr. Healy, continuing, asked what was the value of discuss- 
 ing Mr. Clancy's amendment if Mr. Parnell would not accept the 
 judgment of his party '? Were they fools to spend their time in 
 elaborating the amendment, which on being accepted was to have 
 no value ? 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Not at all. 
 
 Mr. Healy said there were present some 73 members out of 8G, 
 and, according to Mr. Parnell' s view, if there were 72 to one, and 
 that one was Henry Campbell, he would refuse to submit himself 
 to the judgment of his party. 
 
 Mr. Mahony. — You are mistaken. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Why, if I am mistaken, does Mr. Parnell want 
 Mr. Clancy's amendment withdrawn ? (Cheers and " No.") 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I do not. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Why does he want other proposals substituted ? 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Because you made an additional proposal your- 
 self in Mr. Sexton's speech, not included in Mr. Clancy's amend- 
 ment. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Precisely ; because we wanted to know what we 
 were discussing Mr. Clancy's amendment for. Mr. Healy, con- 
 tinuing, said he would ask Mr. Parnell, supposing they agreed to 
 send to the Liberal leaders, and, as Mr. Clancy requested, ask 
 
 Dec. 4.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 140 MEETINGS OF THE I TUSH PARTY. 
 
 the Liberal leaders for an answer on the two questions, would ho 
 submit to the decision of the majority of the party as to whether 
 the answers were satisfactory or not, and if they pronounced 
 them satisfactory would he retire 1 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — If the party assume the responsibility by 
 adopting my resolutions, undoubtedly, yes. (Cheers.) If tho 
 party tako my responsibility off my shoulders by adopting theso 
 two resolutions, and declare their opinion upon these two impor- 
 tant questions before their constituencies, undoubtedly, j - es — I 
 retire and accept your judgment. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Healy said tho question they were discussing was Mr. 
 Clancy's resolution, and lie would ask Mr. Parnell, with regard 
 to that resolution, for an answer. 
 
 Mr. Parnell said he had told them his views on the resolu- 
 tion. He had said that it did not free him from his responsibi- 
 lity, and that he declined to do anything unless the party 
 assumed the responsibility, which he was willing to yield. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — I invite the attention of the meeting to this fact. 
 Mr. Clancy's resolution is practically Mr. Parnell 's resolution. 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I beg your pardon, nothing of the kind. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Is Mr. Clancy here ? 
 
 Mr. Clancy. — 1 am. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — I say your resolution is Mr. Parnell's resolution. 
 
 Mr. Clancy. — My resolution is my own, (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Healy said his foundation for the statement was that 
 when he had asked Mr. Clancy to lot him see his resolution ho 
 (Mr. Clancy) refused, unloss with Mr. Parnell's sanction. 
 
 Mr. Clancy said he was acting as a friend to Mr. Parnell, and 
 he thought it right to consult him. 
 
 Mr. Parnell said he had read the resolution twice before he 
 was summoned into the room, and he had not grasped its full 
 meaning until that morning. 
 
 Mr. Healy said that Mr. Parnell had had the resolution before 
 him for two days. 
 
 Mr. Clancy. — He had not. I had the resolution in my pocket. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — When did Mr. Clancy first show Mr. Parnell tho 
 resolution ? 
 
 Mr. Clancy. — I do not think I ought to bo catechized in this 
 way.
 
 MR. CLANCY'S AMENDMENT— MR. T. HEALY. Ill 
 
 Mu. Healy said they asked Mr. Clancy and Mr. Redmond, if 
 this resolution were accepted, and if, thereupon, deputies were 
 sent in conference to the Liberal leaders, and there was a satis- 
 factory reply, would Mr. Parnell retire, and Mr. Redmond said, 
 " Yes," honest man that he was. 
 
 Mr. Leamy. — What is the use of going on in this way ? 
 
 Dr. Fitzgerald. — This is a nice way to make the " golden 
 bridge." I ask Mr. Healy to withdraw that imputation. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — I say Mr. Redmond is an honest man. 
 
 Dr. Fitzgerald. — That means we are all thieves. (" Hear, 
 hear," and " No, no.") 
 
 Mr. Healy. — If Mr. Redmond feels that my statement about 
 him is in the least degree offensive 
 
 Mr. Redmond. — What statement ? 
 
 Mr. Healy. — I said you were an honest man, Mr. Redmond. 
 (Laughter, and " Hear, hear.") 
 
 Dr. Fitzgerald. — I must ask Mr. Healy to keep himself within 
 the bounds of some sort of decency. 
 
 Mr. Healy, continuing, said that was the position last night. 
 They then said, " Who is to be the judge of the satisfactoriness 
 of the decision 1 " 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— That was a question left unprovided for in the 
 resolution, and that is a question which has been defined by my 
 speech — that when the party assume the responsibility and take 
 the responsibility off my shoulders on to their own, they shall be 
 the judge. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — As far as I can gather, the majority of the party 
 is willing at once to assume that responsibility (cheers), and, if 
 you will only allow Mr. Barry's resolution to be withdrawn, and 
 allow our resolution, which you refused to allow to be put on 
 Monday last, to be put now, the party will at once proceed to its 
 executive responsibility. (Cheers.) Mr. Healy went on to say 
 that his colleagues met the amendment on the previous day in 
 the fullest spirit of reconciliation. 
 
 Dr. Fitzgerald. — You cried over it. 
 
 Mr. Healy said they were in hopes at any rate that it would be 
 accepted. But now what Mr. Parnell wanted was that Mr. 
 Clancy's amendment should be withdrawn, and necessarily also 
 Mr. Barry's resolution, in order to enable Mr. Parnell' s resolu- 
 tion to be put forward. There would be no question of leadership 
 
 Dec. 4.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 142 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 before the party. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Clancy's amendment and 
 Mr. Barry's resolution would bo withdrawn, and then on the ques- 
 tion of the chairmanship being withdrawn the party would bo 
 ongaged in discussing, not the present leadership, but the pro- 
 spects of a Home Rule Bill. (Hear, hear.) Did Mr. Pamell 
 think they were children ? (Cheers.) Mr. Pamell complained of 
 Mr. Gladstone not giving a straight answer. Had they had 
 straight conduct and straight answers since last night ? (Hear, 
 hear.) No, A question had boon asked on Mr. Clancy's amend- 
 ment, and to that question they had not received the straight 
 answer which Mr. Pamell boasted he was always enabled to give. 
 (Cheers.) They were to be trapped into the withdrawal of Mr. 
 Clancy's amendment and necessarily of Mr. Barry's proposal, 
 because when he asked Mr. Pamell whether his proposal was to 
 go as an amendment or a resolution he said a resolution. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — It is indifferent to me whether you have it as 
 an amondment or a resolution. It simply contains my views on 
 the question Mr. Sexton put to mo. I regret you do not consider 
 it a straight answer, but it is my answer, and upon that answer 
 I will stand or fall before the country. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Then you will fall. (Cheers.) And now that 
 both sides have made up their minds, what is the use of further 
 debate? (Cheers and interruption.) 
 
 Mr. Leamy. — Away with him ! Away with him ! 
 
 Mr. John O'Connor. — Crucify him ! (Cries of " Oh, oh.") 
 
 Mr. Condon. — I think that is an expression that should not be 
 made use of. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr, Sexton. — Mr. Parnell, 1 think you will agree with me that 
 the interests of good order cannot be advanced by observations 
 which, under the circumstances, are nothing but blasphemous. 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. J. O'Connor rose to explain. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Allow mo to proceed. Mr. Healy went on to say 
 that they would vote_Mr. Parnell 's deposition, be it that day, to- 
 morrow, Saturday, or Sunday. 
 
 Colonel Nolan.— Not Sunday. I will not sit on Sunday. 
 (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. Healy — Colonel Nolan will probably bring out his cavalry 
 and artillery to the hills (laughter and cheers) now that a speech 
 has been delivered appealing to what a certain gentleman in the
 
 MR. CLANCY'S AMENDMENT— MR. T. HEALY. 143 
 
 Special Commission called the hillside men. (Cheers.) Our 
 position is plain and unmistakable. 
 
 Me. Parnell.— Hear, hear. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Your position is plain. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Hear. hear. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Let us come then to the issue. (Cheers.) You 
 declare that the country is for you. Go to it. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — So we will. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Healy asserted that they were all bound by a solemn 
 pledge that the minority would be bound by the majority. 
 
 Mr. Campbell. — I have taken no such pledge. 
 
 Mr. Healy said they had given their pledges in writing " to 
 sit, act, and vote with the majority of the party " (cheers), and 
 now the hillside men were to be appealed to. They had ascer- 
 tained that their debates were a mere consumption of time, 
 because when they were terminated no respect would be paid to 
 their decision. Mr. Parnell declared in advance that he would 
 defy it. (Cheers.) He would tell Mr. Parnell that he was no 
 greater than the majority of that party. (Loud cheers.) Judged 
 by every constitutional principle that party was the register of 
 the authority of the Irish nation. (Cheers.) He repeated that 
 every one of them had taken a solemn pledge — " that I will sit, 
 act, and vote with the Irish party, and that if it should be de- 
 clared by the majority of two-thirds of the party that I have 
 failed to do so, I will resign my seat." (Hear, hear.) The 
 pledge to respect the decisions of the party and be bound by the 
 majority was absolute. (Hear, hear.) Yet they were to be 
 told in the end by Mr. Parnell, " I have no regard for your 
 decision. I have been talking here simply against time. I 
 deride your authority and I appeal against it." (Cheers.) No 
 man with an intellect superior to that of a sparrow would be mis- 
 led by the sophistries of that deliverance. (Cheers.) " I tell 
 you and those who move bogus resolutions," added Mr. Healy, 
 " that we are the brains of the country and not its brogues." 
 (Cheers.) These resolutions have been organized by Dr. Kenny. 
 (" Hear, hear," and " No, no.") 
 
 Dr. Kenny.— Mr. Healy pays me a high compliment, but I 
 assure him that he is wrong. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — We know the machinery. We see the ropes and 
 the pulleys. 
 
 Dec. 4.
 
 Dec. i. 
 
 Hi MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Dr. Kenny roso to order. He said it had been freely bandied 
 about, that he went back to Dublin to organize the National 
 League. He declared on his honour there was not one single iota 
 of foundation for that statement, and he would make his denial 
 as particular as any man liked. 
 
 Mb. He.vly.— It is sufficient. There is not a man in the party 
 will dispute your word. 
 
 Dr. Kenny said thero wore men who had made such state- 
 ments. He had wired saying ho had heard of no meetings, and 
 did not think any ought to be held ; but if the people chose to 
 express their views, they could not help it. 
 
 Mr. Healy gladly withdrew the suggestion with regard to Dr. 
 Kenny, whose mere assurance would give validity to any 
 declaration he would make in the mind of any member of the 
 party. (Hear, hoar.) But let him (Mr. Healy) say, with regard 
 to the resolutions, that they knew the machinery. They heard 
 tho creaking of the cranks. Every winch and pulley that could 
 be employed had been gathered together to set them in motion, 
 and he would only say, so far as concerned their effect on him- 
 self, that ho would rather retire and emigrate, beggared and out- 
 cast, to an African swamp, than allow his judgment as an 
 indej)endent representative of the people to be influenced by any 
 consideration which his conscience did not recommend. (Cheers.) 
 Mr. Parnoll had said that an atrociously unfair use had beon 
 made of the fact that he (Mr. Parnell) accepted the Home Rule 
 Bill of 1886. 
 
 Mit. Parnell. — With reservations on certain points. 
 
 Mr. Healy said " Quite so." No such complaint had been 
 made. Thoy were delighted that Mr. Parnell accepted the Home 
 Rulo Bill of 188G. They were delighted that ho got the Homo 
 Rulo Bill of 1880. His name had been praised all over tho 
 country for having obtained it, and the only observation they 
 mado was neither in the nature of a complaint that he had 
 accepted it, nor to give rise to a supposition of griovance against 
 him ; but they simply pointed out that, having accepted that 
 Bill, they did not sec how he could, in the manifesto, complain 
 that Mr. Ciladstone had refused to give him satisfactory assurances 
 in a senso further than what he (Mr. Parnell) had accepted in 
 the Bill of 188G. 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— No, I beg your pardon.
 
 MR. CLANCY'S AMENDMENT— MR. T. HEALY. 145 
 
 Mr. T. Healy. — I am only explaining that wo make no com- 
 plaint against you. 
 
 Mb. Parnell. — You make a distinct statement of fact. The 
 discussion at Hawarden was taken upon departures from the 
 Homo Rule Bill of 188G, as admitted by Mr. Gladstone, and it 
 was in reference to those departures that I felt myself placed in 
 this embarrassing position. 
 
 Mn. Healy said he was only explaining that Mr. Parnell waa 
 not entitled to say that atrociously unfair taunts had been levelled 
 at him for accepting the Bill of 1880. The taunts were not for 
 accepting the Bill, but for saying that Mr. Gladstone was in a 
 plot with a section of the Irish representatives whom the Liberals 
 had undermined. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I did not say that Mr. Gladstone was in the 
 plot. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Well, that there was some intrigue by which the 
 Liberal representatives had sapped the Irish representatives to 
 induce them to destroy you and fling you to the ravenous English 
 wolves, because you were unwilling to accept an Irish Parliament 
 in which the police would not be immediately controlled, and in 
 which we should not have the right to settle the land question. 
 Proceeding, Mr. Healy said they founded their complaints not on 
 Mr. Parnell's attitude in 1886, but on his attitude in 1890. Mr. 
 Parnell had referred to his calling his colleagues together in 1886 
 to consult them before the Home Rule Bill. 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— I called together Mr. Dillon, Mr. O'Brien, 
 yourself, Mr. Sexton, Mr. M'Carthy, Mr. O'Kelly, Mr. Dwyer 
 Gray, and Mr. Davitt. 
 
 Mr. Healy said " Quite so " ; but he (Mr. Healy) took entire 
 issue with the position now assumed by Mr. Parnell, who was 
 evidently now shaping his course towards " the hillside men," 
 when he said that he submitted the proposals to them in 1886, 
 and told them certain things which they accepted. They did 
 accept the Bill, and they now rejoiced and gloried in it. But tha 
 attitude of Mr. Parnell in conference that night was not the 
 attitude stated by him to-day. At that time they were discussing, 
 not the police, not the land question ; in those days of 18S6 it 
 seemed a mighty great thing to get the control of an Irish Parlia- 
 ment (hear, hear), and the limitation of a few years put upon the 
 
 K 
 
 Dec. 4.
 
 Dec. 1. 
 
 116 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 control of the Irish constabulary did not trouble them very much. 
 (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— Put your limitation into the Bill as it was put 
 into that Bill. 
 
 Dr. Kenny.— There was no limitation. (Cries of " There 
 was.") 
 
 Mr. Healy said the way Mr. Parnell showed statesmanship 
 was this ; they were cavilling over the details, or, rather, he 
 should say, over the absence of certain provisions in the Bill. 
 Some men demanded a Custom-house ; some question like that 
 was raised and Mr. Parnell rose from the table and said— and it 
 clenched and ended tho discussion—" Gentlemen, two great 
 Btatesmen have left the Cabinet. You have now an opportunity 
 of wrecking another Cabinet," whereupon they all said, " Good 
 evening." That was the way in which the discussion was con- 
 cluded. 
 
 Me. Parnell.— I communicated to you the message which 
 was given to me that, if we did not accept that Bill as it stood, 
 the Cabinet would resign in a body, and my reason for communi- 
 cating that message to you then was that you might share the 
 responsibility of those proceedings with me. You did share it, 
 and I shared it with you, and I say to-day before you put your- 
 selves into a similar position, tho next time, on the next intro- 
 duction of the Home Rule Bill, bo sure that a similar message 
 will not be hurled at your head, and be sure that the majority of 
 the Liberal party will not be against you on that occasion, and 
 that you will not have lost the controlling voice which has been 
 given you. 
 
 Mr. Healy said if a similar message was hurled at their heads, 
 what could they do more than last time 1 (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— You can secure the ground now if you like, 
 and if you havo the courage. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Healy rejoined that when the message was hurled at their 
 heads their chairman, statesman as he was, accepted the Bill, 
 and they accepted it. They met in the samo room— but under 
 what happier circumstances !— and Mr. Parnell introduced Mr. 
 Michael Davitt. Mr. Parnell then said, in effect, We havo had 
 differences with the Liberal party ; there may havo been some 
 soreness and ill-feeling, but it would be a fatal error if we did 
 not close with this oiler and, further, to put it on record at once
 
 MR. CLANCY'S AMENDMENT— MK. T. HEALY. 117 
 
 that this Bill is in principle accepted by the Irish partj'. Now 
 what was the position ? The party was asked to secure the 
 ground in advance. He would secure the ground if they gave 
 him some millions of men and some artillery, hut without them 
 they would he in the future as they were in the past. Some 
 leaders would put to the party the question : — " Will you accept 
 this Bill or will you smash the Cabinet ? " That was Mr. 
 Parnell's alternative in 1886, and he, himself, ventured to think 
 that there was sufficient statesmanship yet left in the benighted 
 majority who opposed Mr. Parnell now to take a course as states- 
 manlike as that of their leader in 1880. Six months after the 
 Hawarden interview, when, on the occasion of his birthday, Mr. 
 Parnell was entertained at the Westminster Palace Hotel by his 
 colleagues, he undertook to hold aloof from all English parties 
 " until an English party arose which would concede to Ireland 
 the just rights of the Irish people." 
 
 Mb. Parnell. — Hear, hear. 
 
 Mb. T. M. Healy.— Will he cheer what follows 2 
 
 Mb. Pabnell. — Every word of it. Read it. 
 
 Mb. T. M. Healy. — I will read every precious word. (Head- 
 ing) : — " That time has since come." Where is the cheer for 
 that ? 
 
 Mb. Pabnell. — Hear, hear. 
 
 Mb. T. M. Healy. — I have extracted it at last. Rather feeble, 
 I suggest. (Reading) : — " That time has since come about when 
 an English party — a great English party under the distinguished 
 leadership of Mr. Gladstone — has conceded to Ireland those 
 rights, and has enabled us to enter into an honourable alliance, 
 honourable and hopeful for our country" — with a garrulous old 
 man — 
 
 Mb. Pabnell. — That is your interpolation.* 
 
 Mb. Healy (reading) : — " Honourable for the great English 
 party, an alliance which I venture to believe will last." What 
 broke it off ? (Loud cheers.) 
 
 Mb. Pabnell, Colonel Nolan, and Db. Fitzgerald each 
 replied " Gladstone's letter." 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy. — It perished in the stench of the Divorce 
 Court. (Loud cheers.) On the 30th of June last — the date of 
 this speech — Mr. Parnell was satisfied with the Liberal alliance. 
 
 Mb. Pabnell. — I believe now that if that letter had not been 
 
 k— 2 
 
 Dkc. 4.
 
 Dec. 4. 
 
 148 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 written that alliance would have been fully maintained. (Hear, 
 hear.) 
 
 Mil. T. M. Healy replied that that letter was merely a state- 
 ment on the part of Mr. Gladstone that ho would not be able to 
 work with Mr. Parnell. it contained no statement departing 
 from political principles. Mr. Gladstone was called a sophist 
 and a garrulous old man, who never gave a straight answer, and 
 yet they were to go hat in hand to him. Mr. Parnell had 
 trampled on his gray hairs and bespattered them with mud, and 
 then proposed that he should be asked for terms. Mr. Gladstono 
 might say, " 1 am insulted by the chairman of your party, and 
 if ho cannot refrain even amongst yourselves from terms of abuse 
 and anger towards me, how can I give an answer which I may bo 
 (old is to lead to his political destruction ?" That was the matter 
 which they were anxious to debate that afternoon. Mr. Parnell 
 recommended the Gladstonian principle to the Irish nation, 
 and declared in advance that their prejudices might be safely 
 allayed, and that they might safely accept the aid of Mr. Glad- 
 stone's genius. Ho himself retained his opinion of the entire 
 transaction. Nothing had occurred since the 30th of June to 
 change his opinion of Mr. Gladstono, or to turn him back to the 
 career of hatred towards the English people, out of which Mr. 
 Parnell led him. (Hear, hear.) He should maintain his posi- 
 tion, and invite his countrymen to do the same They would go 
 into this tight armed, as they believed, with every feeling of 
 patriotism. They would go into the fight putting forward tho 
 claim that they were on the side of prudence, of justice, and of 
 right (loud cheers), and, whatever taunts might be addressed to 
 him in the course of this feud, he would endure them as they 
 had endured ten years of slavery in the House, and, whatever 
 were the issues, he should not shirk stating them oi enly to tho 
 people, and with the people be the verdict. (Loud cheers and 
 counter cheers.) If Mr. Parnell should go down, ho was only one 
 man gone. Heads of greater leaders had been stricken on tho 
 block before now for Ireland, and the Irish cause remained. 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Mil. J. Redmond said Mr. Healy' s speech was a string of 
 insults from beginning to end, and nothing but the weighty re- 
 sponsibility resting uj on every man in the room upon this ques- 
 tion restrained him from resenting Mr. Healy's imputations as
 
 MR. CLANCY'S AMENDMENT— MR. J. REDMOND. 149 
 
 he believed they deserved to bo resented. (Hear, hear.) He 
 denied absolutely the accuracy of the representation of the situa- 
 tion by Mr. Healy. Deliberately or otherwise, Mr. Healy had 
 absolutely misrepresented the position taken up by the chairman 
 yesterday. Mr. Clancy moved a resolution, and there had been 
 no suggestion that the two subsequent resolutions were in the 
 least inconsistent with Mr. Clancy's. He himself believed that 
 even yet there might be an amicable settlement if only they were 
 animated by a desire to deal reasonably in this matter. After 
 Mr. Clancy's resolution, Mr. Sexton asked if he was correct in 
 assuming that, if these communications were held with Mr. 
 Gladstone, and if satisfactory assurances on two vital points 
 were obtained, Mr. Parnell would resign the leadership. They 
 all agreed to this, yet one would think, to listen to Mr. Healy, 
 that there had been some receding from the position. Mr. Sexton 
 having received his assurances, he asked whether the majority of 
 the party or Mr. Parnell was to be the judge whether the assur- 
 ances from Mr. Gladstone were satisfactory. Everybody who 
 heard the inquiry realized the fact that that was the crux upon 
 which would turn the attempt to settle the matter. He believed 
 that Mr. Parnell' s statement had been misunderstood by Mr. 
 Healy and misrepresented. He did not want to impute bad faith 
 to Mr. Healy, though he had bandied accusations against them 
 pretty freely. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — What accusations did I make ? 
 
 Me. Redmond. — You accused us of proposing bogus resolutions, 
 of taking up a position that was not bond fide, of wasting time 
 fcr the purpose of causing delay, and of an attempt to rig the 
 country. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — I adhere to all those statements. 
 
 Mr. Redmond. — Then what is the point of the interruption ? 
 
 Mr. Healy. — 1 thought it was something terrible. 
 
 Mr. Redmond. — I don't know anything more terrible than 
 accusations of bad faith and falsehood to your colleagues and 
 country. (Cheers.) Mr. Redmond went on to ask whether it 
 was unreasonable for Mr. Parnell to ask for security that the 
 Irish Parliament should have the control of the police and power 
 to settle the land question, and before surrendering his position 
 to ask from the majority an expression of opinion on those points. 
 When Mr. Parnell had made it absolutely certain that the Home 
 
 Dec. 4.
 
 Dkc. 4. 
 
 150 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Rule Bill would bo a reality and not a sham, then he would 
 place his future in the hands of a majority which he knew was 
 hostile to him at that moment. (Cheers.) How could that be a 
 change of attitude ? The change of attitude was on the part of 
 Mr. Healy. (Hear, hear.) Ho characterized Mr. Hoaly's speech 
 as the worst-tempered and most hysterical speech that was ever 
 delivered by a man in the position of a leading politician. He 
 appealed to Mr. Sexton to say what difference there was between 
 Mr. Parnell's attitude yesterday and to-day. When Mr. 
 Clancy's amendment was moved Mr. Parnell was asked a ques- 
 tion, and in reply he had given an answer that would be received 
 in Ireland as it was received by his colleagues, as another proof 
 of his soundness of purpose and his devotion to the cause which 
 had led to the very threshold of victory. (Hoar, hear.) His 
 opponents were men who were willing to accept the vague assur- 
 ances of Mr. Gladstone as to the future of Home Rule. They 
 were men who were willing to sacrifice Mr. Parnell without 
 thought or heed of what that sacrifice would entail. They were 
 going to sacrifice the one man who was capable of serving the 
 nation. (Cheers.) They had in Mr Parnell the greatest Irish- 
 man since the days of Hugh O'Neill, and if he were driven out 
 they would be obliged to take inferior men. But they had got 
 him, and why should they drive him out ? He believed that in the 
 moment when by an adverse vote of tho party Mr. Parnell w r as 
 driven from the chair and public life tho Irish race throughout 
 tho world would bo rent in twain. Tho one hopo of safoty for 
 Ireland and the Home Rule cause was that Mr. Parnell should 
 remain at his post, or else abdicate it having obtained for Ireland 
 security for the settlement of that question. If he, Mr. Parnell, 
 obtained that socurity for Ireland and then retired, he believed 
 tho Irish race would consent to his temporary withdrawal from 
 tho position he now occupied. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Sexton said he had listened to Mr. Farnell's speech with 
 profound attention, and was sorry to say he had no option 
 but to add that he had heard it with deepest disappointment 
 and most piercing regret. (Hear, hear.) His sorrow was more 
 permanent than any anger could be, and he should endeavour in 
 the solemn words he would now address to the party to secure 
 that his language should bear no trace of anger. (Hear, hear.) 
 He wished from his heart that tho speech of Mr. Redmond had
 
 MR. CLANCY'S AMENDMENT— MR. SEXTON. 151 
 
 answered to his avowed desire, but it was a peculiar quality 
 
 of his intellect that whilst in one sentence, in its form and 
 
 its substance, be seemed to appeal to the spirit of conciliation, 
 
 in the next breath he proceeded to imputation; innuendoes, and 
 
 even to open charges which appeared to him (Mr. Sexton) to 
 
 render conciliation impossible. Mr. Redmond had accused Mr. 
 
 Healy of making use of threats. Let it be remembered that Mr. 
 
 Healy himself and others had been exposed in the course of 
 
 that lamentable contention to the most offensive charges and the 
 
 most abominable insinuations. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Healy's 
 
 speech, however it may have touched them in point of form, was 
 
 impregnated and possessed by the spirit of a great constitutional 
 
 argument. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Healy said that he was prepared 
 
 to follow his convictions to the point of action. Could any man 
 
 opposite say less ? Mr. Sexton said that never to his knowledge 
 
 in the course of political history had there been cast upon any 
 
 body of public representatives an imputation so injurious and so 
 
 undeserved — that the} 7 were acting in an unpatriotic spirit because 
 
 against the position of any man whatever they preferred the 
 
 cause of their nation. (Cheers.) They stood by Mr. Parnell so 
 
 long as they thought it within the range of human possibility 
 
 that the continued leadership of their part}' by Mr. Parnell was 
 
 compatible with any remaining national hope of the freedom of 
 
 their country (cheers), but at a certain stage it ceased to be a 
 
 question of clamour and became a question of political force. 
 
 (Hear, hear.) They were elected by the people of Ireland to 
 
 conduct the Parliamentary cause. Their first duty, therefore, 
 
 was to guard the Parliamentary position (hear, hear), and as 
 
 soon as it became apparent to them that the result of Mr. 
 
 Parnell's retention of his leadership would be infallibly to draw 
 
 away from the Liberal camp a sufficient proportion of the electors 
 
 of the country to render victory impossible, as soon as the 
 
 supreme interest of Ireland became visibly and undeniably 
 
 concerned, their duty was, when the cause presented itself as 
 
 between a nation and a man, to call upon the man to retire, and 
 
 to stand indomitably by the nation. (Loud cheers.) But of all 
 
 that had happened to pain and humiliate him, nothing had 
 
 excited in him those feelings more potently than the argument 
 
 that the cause of Ireland without Mr. Parnell became a hopeless 
 
 cause. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Dec. 4.
 
 Dec. I. 
 
 152 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Mi:. Redmond.— Who said that ? (Cries of " Order.") 
 Mi:. SEXTON said that the standing argument upon the other 
 sido was that tho retention of Mr. Parnoll was necessary for the 
 salvation of Ireland. (Cheers.) He contended that no man was 
 necessary. Whether tho chairmanship were or were not left 
 vat-ant, tho party was composod of honest men, and independent 
 men, and never more than at the present time had they given 
 such painful proof of their independence. That party was, and 
 would be, dominated by the spirit of the Irish people themselves, 
 and no matter who might lead, the pitiable calumny against the 
 Irish nation would not come truo, that that party would ever be 
 tho tail of any party. (Cheers.) It was clearly suggested that 
 Mr. Parnell's leadership was indispensable. It was perfectly 
 possiblo for that party to elect a man with great knowledge, with 
 remarkable culture, and with an intellectual ability which would 
 enable him to cope in any emergency with even the most sophis- 
 tical statesman. He, for his part, had no other ambition but to 
 serve his country in the ranks. (Cheers.) He declared there was 
 no personal ambition in the party which need stand in the way of 
 an ample and efficient leadership. Never in political history 
 was there a party constituted so full of mutual regard and re- 
 spect, and so possessed and interpenetrated by the spirit of con- 
 fidence and of friendship. (Cheers.) Let any man say what he 
 would, that party was bound together by links of steel which no 
 man, and no question of leadership, could injuriously affect ; 
 and if they were to change their leader it would be possible for 
 them to surround him with a Cabinet ; and in this connexion he 
 had told Mr. Parnell that in his retirement he could nominate 
 the committee — conclusive proof that he (Mr. Sexton), at any rate, 
 in the future government of the party thought there should be no 
 taint of hostility to him (Mr. Parnell) or anything which could 
 operate detrimentally to Iroland. (Cheers.) He felt obliged to 
 refer to the language employed towards Mr. Cladstone. They had 
 long been a nation in the valley of tho shadow of death. Genera- 
 tions of their countrymen had yoarnod in vain and had died 
 without finding their prayer granted. What had Mr. Glad- 
 stone done for Ireland ? At a time of his life when he had a natural 
 claim for repose ho had prolonged his labours for the sake, and for 
 the single sake, of securing the freedom of Ireland. (Cheers.) Who 
 uovjd say that for the last four years any man of tho Irish party
 
 MR. CLANCY'S AMENDMENT— MR. SEXTON. 153 
 
 had laboured with more ardour than Mr. Gladstone 1 (Hear, 
 hear.) He had to encounter the heat of the whole nation and the 
 prejudices of race and creed. He set himself to the task with a 
 strong resolution, and in his (Mr. Sexton's) judgment he had 
 performed it so far with unrivalled intellectual power, with the 
 ardour and energy of youth, and with the most extraordinary 
 success. (Cheers.) The Freeman's Journal had spoken of him 
 (Mr. Sexton) as Mr. Gladstone's man. (Laughter.) He appealed 
 to his friends opposite — and he thought they would always be his 
 friends in private life (cheers) — did anybody in that assembly 
 think he was Mr. Gladstone's man 1 (Cheers.) He had never 
 spoken to Mr. Gladstone but once, when the right hon. gentleman 
 spoke to him in the House. Any attempt to misrepresent the 
 position of Mr. Gladstone was discreditable to the generosity of 
 the Irish race. He was not Mr. Gladstone's man. (Cheers.) In 
 all humility he said he was Ireland's man. (Cheers.) And he 
 was not prepared to allow any man to become Ireland's master. 
 (Cheers.) They called Mr. Gladstone a dictator. What option 
 had Mr. Gladstone ? He did not speak with haste. The letter 
 was published, he (Mr. Sexton) admitted, with regrettable haste. 
 (Cheers.) But he (Mr. Sexton) had heard — he was not in a 
 position to declare it — that before that letter was published those 
 who authorized the publication of it were under the fixed impres- 
 sion that the communication which had passed between the 
 Liberal leaders and the Irish members, and the substance if not 
 the terms of the letter itself, had come to the knowledge of the 
 Irish party. Lord Salisbury won the contested elections of 1886 
 by only one vote in 40, and did any one say that the storm of feel- 
 ing which had recently been excited over England would not 
 probably detach from the Liberal strength a greater number than 
 one in 40 ? Did any one <say that Mr. Gladstone was wrong in 
 concluding that if the situation remained unchanged his position 
 as leader would be futile ? Yesterday he (Mr. Sexton) asked Mr. 
 Parnell, upon view of Mr. Clancy s resolution, what authority 
 would determine, in the event of a reply from the Liberal leaders 
 upon the proposed negotiations — what authority would determine 
 whether the reply was satisfactory or not. (Hear, hear.) Mr. 
 Pamell's reply was in these words : — " I have every belief and I 
 feel every confidence in such an issue as that placed before the 
 Irish party — the cpuestion as to securing any future important pro- 
 
 Dec. 4,
 
 Dec. 4. 
 
 154 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 visions, and as to the power of the Irish Parliament— that there 
 will be no difference of opinion between me and the party as to 
 whether these future declarations are satisfactory or not." Why, 
 then, was the position changed ? 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — It is not changed. There is not an atom of 
 change so far as you are concerned. 
 
 Mr. Sexton said he exerted himself assiduously last evening 
 by conference with some of his friends to secure an honourable 
 and amicable settlement, and he might say their hopes were such 
 as did not now appear to him to correspond with the result. 
 (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Sexton) complained that Mr. Clancy on 
 tho previous evening declined to show him the amendment. Why 
 was it denied to them until the moment before they rose to 
 discuss it ? Mr. Clancy's amendment was in effect a trap-door 
 resolution. Mr. Redmond must have known that tho party 
 would only conclude that satisfactory assurances would be 
 assurances satisfactory to the majority of the party. Now, how- 
 ever, closer questioning had discovered the fact that if they were 
 to assent to Mr. Clancy's amendment they might meet there 
 weeks hence or months, and find themselves in the position in 
 which all their efforts would be of no avail. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — No. 
 
 Mr. Sexton, continuing, said Mr. Parnell would be as abso- 
 lutely dictator of the situation as ho was at present. 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— 1 am not dictator of the situation at present. 
 
 Mr. {Sexton. — It appears to mo that Mr. Parnell will not deny 
 that the majority of the party have the right to decide what is 
 satisfactory as to the assurances. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I am not denying it. (Cheers.) I think this is 
 a storm in a teacup. 
 
 Mr. Sexton said a situation had been created which none of 
 thorn might be able to end. Tho American mission had been 
 ruined, and their race in America wero in danger of being torn by 
 dissension. It was, therefore, of the utmost importance that they 
 should secure some speedy solution of the crisis. How did Mr. 
 Parnell propose to secure that ? Mr Parnell asked them to turn 
 aside from Mr. Clancy's amendment, which was his own, and to 
 consider other and different proposals. 
 
 Mb. Parnell said he was quite willing, if it was so wished, 
 that they should carry out tho matter of Mr. Clancy's amendment.
 
 MR. CLANCY'S AMENDMENT— MR. SEXTON. 155 
 
 Mr, Sexton. — If I understand Mr. Parnell correctly lie said 
 that upon the adoption of Mr. Clancy's amendment it was 
 unequivocally understood that the majority of the party would 
 have the right to determine, without these resolutions, whether 
 the replies, if any, of the Liberal leaders are satisfactory. If 
 that is so it alters the situation. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I never heard a word of objection to these 
 resolutions until Mr. Healy's speech. I simply put forward 
 these resolutions as a means of carrying out the scope of Mr. 
 Clancy's amendment. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — Mr. Parnell refuses to let us go into conference 
 with the Liberal leaders unless we first bind ourselves as to the 
 terms of the reference. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — No. 
 
 Mr. Sexton said they might then proceed on the assumption 
 that the resolutions were not to be moved. Here was the first 
 submitted to Mr. Parnell : — " That, in the opinion of the Irish 
 Parliamentary party, no Home Rule Bill will be satisfactory or 
 acceptable to the Irish people which will not confer the imme- 
 diate control of the Irish police on an Irish Executive responsible 
 to an Irish Parliament ; and, secondly, which does not confer on 
 the Irish Parliament full power to deal with the Irish land 
 question. 
 
 Mr. Parnell, referring to his first resolution, said, — I believe 
 that is the view of the party, and all I have to say is that if you 
 take these proposals to the Liberal leaders, and if you say that 
 the answer' of the Liberal leaders upon those two points is 
 satisfactory to you, and if you decide that it is so satisfactory 
 by resolution, it will be satisfactory to me. (Loud and general 
 cheering.) 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — In that case will these resolutions be with- 
 drawn ? 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I have not moved them. But I shall propose 
 that the party should express its opinion upon the answer by 
 resolution. I want simply to have an expression from the party, 
 either first or last, so that the responsibility should be thrown off 
 my shoulders. 
 
 Mr. Sexton suggested that if Mr. Clancy's amendment were 
 carried the delegation should wait upon Mr. Gladstone himself. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I should insist strongly upon the three leaders, 
 
 Dec. 4.
 
 Dec. 4. 
 
 156 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Mr. Gladstone, Sir W. Harcourt, and Mr. Morley, being present, 
 for reasons which I can give if necessary. 
 
 Mr. Sexton asked Mr. Parnell if he would resign if, by vote, 
 the majority of the party decided the answer of the Liberal 
 loaders was satisfactory 1 
 
 Mn. Parnell. — Certainly ; you might have had that at tho 
 beginning of the meeting, if you had not had Mr. Healy's speech. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — No, Sir ; if we had not your speech. 
 
 Mr. Sexton asked whether there would be any objection to 
 appoint with the Whips one or two representatives of each section 
 of the party as members of the delegation. 
 
 Me. Parnell. — So four or live of them could be formed into a 
 committee and retire to consider tho subject. 
 
 Dr. Kenny thereupon moved that the chairman, Mr. John 
 Barry, Mr. Leamy, Mr. Sexton, Mr. T. M. Healy, Mr. Justin 
 M'Carthy. and the two Whips be formed into a committee. 
 
 Mr. Barry said ho did not distinctly understand the position, 
 and suggested that Mr. Parnell should make a distinct statement 
 as to what his position would be in tho event of the answer of the 
 Liberal leaders being satisfactory. (Cries of " Oh, oh.") 
 
 Mr. Parnell (vehemently). — Mr. Barry, I tell you this. I 
 have stated with distinctness over and over again what my course 
 will be, and I will give no further answer. (Loud cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Barry. — I say this for myself, that I am not satisfied. 
 (Cries of " Oh, oh.") 
 
 Mn. Sheehy. — Mr. Paniell's statement is perfectly sufficient. 
 
 Mn. Sexton said they all agreed that if Mr. Clancy's amend- 
 ment was adopted tho delegation would proceed to the English 
 Liberal leaders, and if the answer was satisfactory Mr. Parnell 
 had declared that he would voluntarily and of his own accord 
 relinquish the leadership. If those negotiations, which appeared 
 to him to stand upon a satisfactory basis, were carried to a suc- 
 cessful issue, he believed that what otherwise might have been 
 the decline of Mr. Parnell's career, and what might be treated as 
 his fall, would be memorable as having been accompanied by one 
 of the most distinguished achievements of his life. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. W. Redmond, who spoke with emotion, claimed his right 
 to put one question. (Cries of " Order.") In face of what had 
 taken place within tho last five minutes, who was tho man who 
 would say that Charles Stewart Parnell (renewed crios of
 
 MR. CLANCY'S AMENDMENT— MR. SEXTON. 157 
 
 " Order ") was animated by any personal motive, or that he was 
 not acting for the love of Ireland, and the love of Ireland alone ? 
 (Loud cheers.) 
 
 Mu, Barry. — I do not believe he is. (Cries of '•' Oh !") 
 
 Mr. Sexton, continuing, asked that Mr. Clancy's amendment 
 should be put from the Chair, and then if any man had anything 
 to say against it let him say it. For himself, he would tell his 
 friends to accept the amendment. 
 
 Mr. Healy suggested that before tho amendment was put the}' 
 should have an opportunity of considering its exact terms, and 
 proposed that it should be suspended for a time. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — That comes back to my suggestion. 
 
 Mr. O'Kelly appealed to them as representatives of Ireland, 
 and in the name of the Irish race, to pass the amendment as it 
 stood. (Hear, hear.) He believed that the declarations of their 
 chief would be carried out to the letter, and he appealed to them 
 not to interfere with the settlement, and perhaps to-morrow they 
 would once more be a united party. 
 
 In the course of a discussion on the question of appointing a 
 committee to consider the terms of the reference to be made to 
 the leaders of the Liberal party, 
 
 Mr. Healy said he would like to substitute for his name on 
 the committee the name of Mr. Arthur O'Connor. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — I have a similar feeling, as 1 have taken a highly 
 contentious part. ("No, no.") 
 
 Mr. Parnell read the resolution. — " That, in view of the 
 difference of opinion that has arisen between Mr. Gladstone and 
 Mr. Parnell as to the accuracjr of Mr.ParnelFs recollection of the 
 suggestions offered at Hawarden in reference to suggested 
 changes in and departures from the Home Rule Bill of 188G, on 
 the subject of the control of the constabulary and the settlement 
 of the land question, Mr. Justin M'Carthy, Mr. Parnell, Mr. 
 Sexton, Mr. Healy, Mr. Redmond, and Mr. Leamy, together with 
 the two Whips of the party, be instructed to take steps to obtain 
 from Mr. Gladstone, Mr. John Morley, andSir William Harcourt, 
 for the information of the party, before any further consideration 
 of this question, what their views are with regard to these two vital 
 points." 
 
 The resolution was put, and Mr. Parnell declared that the 
 Ayes had it. Mr. Barry challenged this, and called for a divi- 
 
 Dec. 4.
 
 Dec. 4. 
 
 Dec. 4. 
 
 158 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 sion. Mr. Parnoll took a show of hands. Mr. Barry and Mr. 
 Chance again held up their hands against the resolution, which 
 was declared carried amid cheers. 
 
 Tho meeting adjournod to 12 o'clock on Friday, December 5. 
 
 Mr. Flynn asked whether it would not bo well, in view ofitho 
 naturally heated proceedings, that the same rulo as formerly 
 should be observed with regard to publication. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Tho report has gone already. 
 
 Mr. A. O'Connor asked whether the eight gentlemen who had 
 been named were to go and request an intorview with Sir William 
 Harcourt, Mr. Morley, and Mr. Gladstone. 
 
 Mr. Parnell said the details must bo left to the eom- 
 mitteo. The resolution was that thoy wero to take steps to 
 obtain from those gentlemen, for the information of tho party, 
 their views with regard to these vital points. 
 
 Mr. T. Healy said he had a strong objection to go on any 
 such delegation. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — That is a matter which tho committee can 
 settle when they meet. 
 
 Tho proceedings then terminated, and the members of the 
 delegation remained in private consultation as to tho means to be 
 adopted to carry out the wishes of the meeting. 
 
 MEETING OF THE IRISH PARTY-SEVENTH DAY- 
 NEGOTIATIONS WITH MR. GLADSTONE. 
 
 In pursuance of Mr. Clancy's resolution adopted by the Irish 
 party on December 4, the members therein named, namely Mr. 
 Justin M'Carthy, Mr. Parnell, Mr. Sexton, Mr. T. Healy, Mr. 
 Redmond, and Mr. Loamy, together with the Whips, Mr. R. 
 Power and Mr. J. Deasy, met and selected from their number 
 Messrs. Sexton, T. Healy, John Redmond, and Leamy as a de- 
 putation to seek interviews with Mr. Gladstone, Sir William 
 Harcourt, and Mr. John Morley. 
 
 Tho following account of the delegates' proceedings is taken 
 from the official report presented by them to the Irish party on 
 Saturday, December C.
 
 NEGOTIATIONS WITH MR. GLADSTONE. 159 
 
 The Whips addressed to Mr. Gladstone, Sir William Harcourt, 
 and Mr. John Morley severally, the following letter : — 
 
 " House of Commons, Dec. 4,1890. Sir,— We ara directed to 
 inform you that at a meeting of the Irish Parliamentary party the 
 following gentlemen have been appointed to seek an interview 
 with you — viz., Messrs. Leamy, John Redmond, Sexton, and 
 T. M. Healy — to inquire, for the information of the party, as to 
 the manner in which the Liberal leaders would be prepared to 
 treat certain subjects in the event of their being in a position in a 
 future Parliament to deal legislatively with them. The subjects 
 in question are the settlement of the agrarian difficulty in 
 Ireland and the control of the Irish police. A similar request 
 has been addressed to Sir William Harcourt and Mr. John 
 Morley. We have the honour to remain your obedient servants, 
 
 " Richard Power, ) wh - s ,, 
 " John Deasy, ) 
 
 The following were the replies received :— 
 
 " House of Commons, Dec. 4, 1890. Gentlemen, — I have the 
 honour to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of this day. 
 Whilst expressing my sense of the honour you have done me in 
 desiring to learn from me ' the manner in which the Liberal 
 leaders would be prepared to treat certain subjects in the event of 
 their being in a position in a future Parliament to deal legisla- 
 tively with them,' you must permit me to point out that I have 
 no authority to determine such matters, and that Mr. Gladstone 
 alone, as leader of the Liberal party, can speak in its name. 
 You will understand, therefore, that it is from no want of courtes}' 
 that I find myself precluded from accepting an invitation to an 
 interview such as you have been good enough to propose to me. 
 I have the honour to remain your obedient servant, 
 
 " W. V. Harcourt." 
 
 " House of Commons, Dec. 4, 1890. Gentlemen, — I am 
 extremely sensible of the honour of your invitation, but it is 
 strictly the duty of Mr. Gladstone, as the leader of the Liberal 
 party, to determine the time and manner of stating the plan of 
 dealing with the subjects mentioned in your letter which he 
 would be prepared to recommend to his party and to Parliament. 
 I must therefore very respectfully beg you to excuse me from 
 intervening under the present circumstances in the way that you 
 propose. Yours faithfully, " John Morley." 
 
 Dec. 4.
 
 Dec. 4. 
 
 Dec. 5. 
 
 ICO MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 " 1, Car lton-gar dens, Dec. 4, 1890. Gentlemen, — So far as I 
 comprehend the tenour of the letter I have just had tho honour to 
 receivo, 1 understand that it is proposed by you to constitute a 
 body with the assistance of Sir William Harcourt, Mr. Morley, 
 and myself, which body is to deliver to you assurances as to tho 
 courso which the Liberal party, if in power, would take in a 
 future Parliament with regard to two of the many important 
 particulars connocted with any plan of Home Rule. I would on 
 no account attempt to fetter in any way your liberty of communi- 
 cation in any quarter to which you may think proper to address 
 yourselves, but I regret to be unablo to enter upon the joint 
 consideration of any matter submitted to me in combination with 
 a selection of my friends and former colleagues which has been 
 made neither by me nor by the Liberal party of this country. I 
 leave it to you to consider how far this leaves it open to you to 
 prosecute further your request, and I think it best at the present 
 moment to abstain from touching upon any point except the one I 
 have just raised. I remain, dear Sirs, yours faithfully, 
 
 " W. E. Gladstone." 
 
 The official report proceeds : — 
 
 " In consequence of the views expressed in these letters, tho fol- 
 lowing communication to Mr. Gladstone was prepared by the com- 
 mitteo and addressed to him by the Whips : — 
 
 " ' House of Commons, December 4, 1890. Sir, — We have tho 
 honour to acknowledge the receipt of your courteous reply to our 
 inquiry. Tho names of Sir William Harcourt and Mr. John 
 Morley were suggested with a view to greater convenience and 
 facility of consultation. We are now instructed to say that we 
 shall regard an interview with yourself, either alone or with any 
 of your political friends whom you may bo pleased to select, as 
 for the purposo of enabling us substantially to discharge tho com- 
 mission with which we have been intrusted. We have the honour 
 to remain your obedient sorvants, 
 
 " ' Richard Tower, 
 " ' John Deasy. 
 
 " ' The Right Hon. W. E. Gladstone.'" 
 
 On receipt of this reply, Mr. Gladstono consented to sco tho 
 delegates. The interview took place at 1, Carlton-gardens, at 
 half-past 12, on Friday, December 5. The official report says : — 
 
 " In accordance with a memorandum previously agreed upon
 
 NEGOTIATIONS WITH MR. GLADSTONE. 161 
 
 botween the delegates, the views of the party were submitted to 
 Mr. Gladstone by Mr. Sexton. The following are the terms of the 
 memorandum : — 
 
 " < Clause 21 of the Home Rule Bill of 1886.— (1) To ask that 
 subsection (a) of the clause be applied to the Royal Irish Con- 
 stabulary as well as to the Dublin Metropolitan Police, and that 
 subsection (b) of the clause be omitted. 
 
 " ' (2) To ask that Mr. Gladstone shall state whether the 
 Liberal leaders intend to deal with. the land question themselves 
 in the Imperial Parliament, either by purchase or on the lines of 
 the measure introduced by the Irish party and supported by the 
 Liberal party, or by remitting the question to the Irish Legisla- 
 ture. 
 
 " ' (3) To ask that any proposals of the Liberal party in pursu- 
 ance of the two foregoing articles shall be treated by them as 
 vital.' 
 
 " Mr. Gladstone, in his reply, spoke from a written document, 
 and the delegates agreed upon the following memorandum as con- 
 taining their joint recollection of what he said to the effect that 
 while he was willing at all times to confer with Irish members on 
 questions affecting their country, such a conference was barred 
 when it was sought for the declared purpose of determining a 
 question of recollection as to the Hawarden conversation. Mr. 
 Sexton asked if he felt it within his province to say whether the 
 barrier could be removed, and in what way. Mr. Gladstone said 
 that it was not within his province to make a suggestion which 
 might be regarded as an interference with the independence of the 
 Irish party. Mr. Redmond asked, if this barrier were removed, 
 might it be hoped that these conferences would proceed. Mr. Glad- 
 stone replied that in that case he would regard the matter as if 
 the barrier had not existed. As the deputation was leaving he re- 
 marked that, as regarded the police, he would have little difficulty 
 in speaking. 
 
 " The statement made by Mr. Gladstone to the deputation was 
 made from a written document, a copy of which was forwarded to 
 the delegates. It is as follows : — 
 
 " ' I have never been indisposed to converse freely with Irish 
 members on Irish policy, and there is nothing which I have heard 
 from Mr. Sexton in the statement he has just made which in any 
 degree tends to produce such indisposition. I have no opinion 
 
 L 
 
 Dec. 5.
 
 Dec. 5. 
 
 1C2 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 or intention of any kind to conceal, but since writing my letter of 
 last evening I have read in the papers of to-day the report of the 
 proceedings of the Irish party at their last meeting. 1 find there 
 is no appointment of a deputation, but, as far as I understand, 
 you havo been delegated by a committee which (a) is composed 
 of certain persons ; (b) appointed to dispose of a question of a 
 difference of recollection as to the purport of an interview at 
 Ha warden. 
 
 " ' I fear that there is here a preliminary bar to any communi- 
 cations on the matters you desire to opon. I acknowledge no such 
 difference of recollection. I can say or do nothing which should 
 imply that the general purport of that interview is matter of 
 doubt. Besides my own recollection and written notes, and the 
 recollections of my former colleagues founded thereon, I rely on 
 the recollections of the other party to the interview conveyed in 
 communications with one or moro individuals and in public 
 speeches both immediately after the visit and again when several 
 months had elapsod. Viewing as a whole tho language used by 
 me in my letter to Mr. Morley, and in my published letter of last 
 Saturday, I cannot, apart from any other difficulty, enter into a 
 discussion having for its object to dispose of a difference of re- 
 collection which I do not acknowledge to exist. Further, I may 
 say that the question raised by my letter to Mr. Morley was a 
 question of leadership, representing what I found to be the views 
 of the Liberal party of Great Britain, and having no -connexion 
 with Home Rule or its conditions. But what is now requested of 
 me makes the question a question of Home Bule, and I am asked 
 to open a new discussion on a separate ground. The British 
 Liberal party is enthusiastic for Home Rule, but the trust which 
 it has committed to me does not authorize me to open such a dis- 
 cussion in connexion with the question of leadership, on which 
 they entertain a separate and decided opinion.' : 
 
 In order to remove tho barrier referred to by Mr. Gladstone, 
 the delegates then unanimously decided, in consultation with 
 Mr. Parnell, Mr. Justin M'Carthy, and the Whips of the 
 party, to recommend the party to rescind Mr. Clancy's amend- 
 ment and to adopt the following resolution : — 
 
 " That the following members of tho party — viz., Mr. Learn}-, 
 .Mr. John Redmond, Mr. T. Heal}', and Mr. Sexton — are hereby 
 authorized to request a conference with Mr. Gladstone for the
 
 NEGOTIATIONS WITH MR. GLADSTONE. 163 
 
 purpose of representing the views of this party, and of requesting 
 an intimation of the intentions of himself and his colleagues with 
 respect to certain details connected with the following subjects : 
 — First, the settlement of the Irish land question ; second, the 
 control of the Irish constabulary force in the event of the esta- 
 blishment of an Irish Legislature." 
 
 With this object the delegates met their colleagues in No. 15 
 Committee Room at 4 o'clock. 
 
 Mr. Redmond moved and Mr. Sexton seconded the rescission 
 of Mr. Clancj^'s resolution, which was carried unanimously. 
 
 Me. Redmond moved and Mr. Sexton seconded the sub- 
 stituted resolution stated above, which was carried, Mr. Barry 
 and Mr. Chance dissenting. 
 
 The official report records that, in pursuance of the foregoing 
 resolution, the Whips addressed the following letter to Mr. 
 Gladstone : — 
 
 " Sir,— We have the honour to inform you that at a meeting of 
 the Irish party, held at 4 o'clock this day, the accompanying re- 
 solutions were unanimously passed. We are directed by the 
 gentlemen named in the second resolution to request the favour 
 of an interview." 
 
 The following reply was received from Mr. Gladstone late the 
 same night : — 
 
 " 1, Carlton-gardens, Dec. 5, 1890. 
 " Gentlemen, — I have the honour to acknowledge the receipt 
 of your letter transmitting to me two resolutions of the Irish 
 Parliamentary party. By the first of these resolutions, the sub- 
 ject of our correspondence is entirely detached from connexion 
 with the conversation at Hawarden. In the second I am requested 
 to receive a deputation which, besides stating the views of the 
 party, is to request an intimation of my intentions, and those of 
 my colleagues, as to certain details connected with the subject of 
 the settlement of the Irish land question and with the control of 
 the Irish constabulary force in the event of the establishment of 
 an Irish Legislature. 
 
 " As your letter reached me during the early hours of the 
 sitting of the House, I hava had the opportunity of learning the 
 views of my colleagues with regard to such a declaration of 
 
 l— 2 
 
 Dec. 5.
 
 Dec. 5. 
 
 1G1 MEETINGS OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 intention on two ont of tho many points which may be regarded 
 as vital to the construction of a Government measure of Homo 
 Rule. 1 may be permitted to remind you, as I mentioned to tho 
 deputation this morning, that the question raised by the publica- 
 tion of my letter to Mr. Morley was a question of leadership, and 
 that it is separate from, and had no proper connexion with, tho 
 subject of Home Rule. I have arrived at tho conclusion that I 
 cannot undertake to make any statement of our intentions on 
 theso or any other provisions of a Homo Rule Bill in connoxion 
 with the question of the leadership of tho Irish party. When 
 the Irish party shall have disposed of this question, which 
 belongs entirely to their own competence, in such a manner as 
 will enable me to renew the former relations, it will be my desire 
 to enter, without prejudice, into confidential communication, 
 such as has heretofore taken place, as occasion may servo, upon 
 all amendment of particulars and suggestion of improvements in 
 any plan for a measure of Home Rule, 
 
 " I may venture to assure you that no change has taken placo 
 in my desire to pross forward on the first favourable opportunity a 
 just and effective measure of Home Rule. I recognize and 
 oarnestly seek to uphold the independence of the Irish Parlia- 
 mentary party no less than that of the Liberal party. I acknow- 
 ledge with satisfaction the harmony which, since 188G, has pre- 
 vailed between them, and, when the present difficulty is romoved, 
 I am aware of no reason to anticipate its interruption. From 
 Avhat has taken placo on both sides of the Channel in the last 
 four years I look forward with confidence, as do my colloaguos, to 
 tho formation and prosocution of a measure which, in meeting all 
 the just claims of Ireland, will likewise obtain the approval of 
 tho people of Great Britain. 
 
 " I shall at all suitable times prize tho privilege of free com- 
 munication with the Irish Nationalist party, and I will finally 
 remind you of my declaration this morning that, apart from per- 
 sonal confidence, there is but one guarantee which can be of real 
 value to Ireland. It is that recently pointed out by Sir William 
 Harcourt in his letter of December 2, when he called attention to 
 " the unquestionable political fact that no party and no leaders 
 could ever propose or hope to carry any scheme of Home Rule 
 which had not tho cordial concurrence and support of the Irish
 
 NEGOTIATIONS WITH MR. GLADSTONE. 
 
 1CS 
 
 nation as declared by their representatives in Parliament." 
 With this statement of my views and those of my colleagues I 
 anticipate that you will agree with me in the opinion that there 
 would be no advantage in a further personal interview. 
 
 " I have the honour to be, gentlemen, yours faithfully, 
 
 " W. E. Gladstone." 
 
 Dec. 5.
 
 CI LIFTER V. 
 
 RUPTURE OF THti IRISH PARTF— MR. PARNELL'S DE- 
 PARTURE FOR IRELAND. 
 
 D , r Saturday, December G, was the eighth and last day of the 
 
 meetings of the Irish party. The members assembled at 1 o'clock 
 in No. 15 Committee Room. 
 
 Mn. Parnell took the chair, and said : — 
 
 Gentlemen,— This meeting is assembled for the purpose of 
 receiving the report of the delegation appointed at the last meet- 
 ing of the party to request a conference with Mr. Gladstone for 
 the purpose of representing the view of this party in respect to 
 certain details connected with the following subjects. First, the 
 settlement of the land question, and, secondly, the control of the 
 Irish constabulary force, in the event of the establishment of an 
 Irish Legislature. I wish to know whether tho delegates are pre- 
 sent and are prepared to present their report. 
 
 Dr. Kenny (who was received with cries of " The delogatos, 
 the delegates ") said, — I beg to move that the delegates be re- 
 quested to retire to prepare a report for the information of this 
 meeting, and that the sitting be suspended pending their return. 
 (" Hoar, hear," and " No, no.") 
 
 The proposal was seconded by Mr. Mahony and opposed by 
 Ma. T. Healy, and, after a short but heated debato, was put to 
 the vote. On a show of hands being taken, 25 were for the reso- 
 lution and 34 against. 
 
 The resolution was therefore declared lost. 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy. — I have a motion to mako which will put 
 the meeting in order : — " That communications between this party 
 and tho Liberal leaders be read, as well as tho report of the dele- 
 gates' interview with Mr, Gladstone, already agreed to and signed 
 by them."
 
 PROCEDURE— CONVERSATION. 167 
 
 Mil. E. Harrington. — I would appeal to my friend to take a 
 different view. We all know what the object of our meeting yes- 
 terday was, and we all expected to have a report for this meeting. 
 I may say nothing whatever about what has occurred since, and 
 I am surprised that Mr. Sexton, who would be one of those to 
 bring forward this report, did not support Dr. Kenny's motion. 
 (Cries of " Order.") 1 do not want to be personal. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — I will answer you. 
 
 Mr. Harrington. — I know nothing of the report, and I want 
 now to know all about it. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. John Barry. — It is quite ready. 
 
 Mr. E. Harrington. — How do I know it is ready, or why 
 should you know it before it is presented ? (Hear, hear.) I am 
 as much of a partisan as you are, and I may tell you I am pre- 
 pared to meet you on any ground. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Barry. — The four delegates say it is ready. 
 
 Mr. Kilbride did not think there was any necessity for a reso- 
 lution, and added, — "In God's name let the delegates now retire 
 to report." 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Well, then, will the delegates retire 1 
 
 Mr. Sexton said he should have been willing to retire, but he 
 agreed with Mr. Healy that there was no necessity to put them 
 under a formal direction, and he thought the delegates could add 
 nothing to the material before the chair. If they were pressed to 
 report, all they could do was to make a catalogue of the docu- 
 ments. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Hear, hear. Put the documents in the order 
 in which they must be presented. 
 
 Mr. Redmond claimed that every step taken by the delegates 
 since the appointment of the delegation should be recorded and 
 put before them in proper sequence. If he had considered Dr. 
 Kenny's resolution an insult to the delegates, he should have re- 
 sented it as readily as Mr. Sexton; but the matter was important, 
 and not one or two letters, but all of them, should be placed before 
 the public. He appealed to the three other delegates to go with 
 him into the next room for ten minutes, and come back with a 
 report. 
 
 Mr. Barry.— Well, fire away. (Cries of " Go.") 
 
 After some further discussion, in which Colonel Nolan and 
 Mr. Sexton took part, 
 
 Dec. 6.
 
 Dec. C. 
 
 108 RUPTURE OF THE IRISH TARTY. 
 
 Mil. John O'Connor made an earnest appeal in favour of tho 
 delegates retiring to prepare the report. 
 
 Me. W. Redmond said ho certainly thought that the delegates 
 should retiro at once. (Hoar, hoar.) 
 
 Mr. W. A. Macdonald failed to understand Mr. Healy's tactics. 
 Mr. Healy had begun by saying — " Withdraw the resolution and 
 we will retiro, and the thing will be done in five minutes." It 
 was not withdrawn, but was put in the ordinary way; but how did 
 thataltor the case 1 Ho hoped they would not stand upon tech- 
 nicalities, but that the delegates would at once give them the 
 report. 
 
 Mr. Justin M'Carthy deprecated any waste of time in debating 
 this question, and suggested that they should leavo it to the dele- 
 gates to make the report in the form they thought best. 
 
 Mr. Parnell, at Mr. Healy's request, read that gentleman's 
 resolution. 
 
 Mr. Parnell then said, — I will shortly explain why I object 
 to tho adoption of the resolution of Mr. Healy. My objection 
 may be contained in a single sentence, — that I do not: think any 
 piecemeal account of this matter should go before the country. 
 (Cheers.) This business is, owing to circumstances which are 
 not in the control of tho meeting, becoming very conflicting. It 
 consists of a number of communications made by our delegates 
 to the Whips of the Liberal party, to Mr. Gladstone, to Mr. 
 Morley, and to Sir William Harcourt. Some of these communi- 
 cations I have. I have been endeavouring — much assisted by tho 
 courtesy of the delegates — to keep myself informed of the subjects 
 occupying tho attention of tho delegates during the interviews. 
 I have here some documents which 1 have endeavoured to collect 
 as the matter went on, but I have not got them all. 1 believe 
 those documents are forthcoming ; but it is absolutely necessary, 
 to enable you to understand what has been dono 
 
 Mb. T. M. Healy. — What documents do you require ? 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I cannot toll. 
 
 Mb. Healy. — You havo got all wo have got. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— I don't accuse Mr. Healy or any ono else of 
 suppressing any of tho documents. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — You have got everything that is there. 
 
 Mb. Paenell. — Of course I have got everything that is hero. 
 (Laughter.)
 
 PROCEDURE— ME. RARNELL. 1G9 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Everything that exists. (Hear, hear.) 
 Mr. Parnell. — The documents 1 have not got are in exist- 
 ence and capable of production for this meeting, and I sub- 
 mit they ought to be produced. How is it possible for you to 
 understand this position unless the full information is put before 
 you ? (Hear, hear.) The only persons who can put the full 
 position before you are the delegates. There is no blame attaching 
 to the delegates for not having prepared their report. Up to late 
 last night the delegates, after a series of complicated communi- 
 cations, were in waiting for Mr. Gladstone's formal and definite 
 reply. That reply was not received till 10 o'clock. The dele- 
 gates were good enough to assemble in my room at the West- 
 minster Palace Hotel to consider the entirely new situation 
 which has been created by that reply. I suggested to the dele- 
 gates, while the matter was fresh in their memory, to put down 
 on paper their recollections, as far as the recollections coincided, 
 and the conversation which took place with Mr. Gladstone at the 
 interview yesterday. This they were kind enough to do, and this 
 recallection of the conversation is what Mr. Healy terms in this 
 resolution the report of the delegates' interview with Mr. Glad- 
 stone, already agreed to and signed by them. It is true it was 
 agreed to as containing the joint recollections of the delegates of 
 this most important interview. I did not ask them to go any 
 further. I said to them, " Put down so much on paper, but I 
 don't wish to ask you to consider the question individually or 
 go any further on the present occasion than putting in writing 
 your joint recollections." That is all that has been done 
 by the delegates in regard to framing a report— absolutely all. 
 That memorandum is here amongst the papers I have in my pos- 
 session, and will undoubtedly form a portion of what the dele- 
 gates have to report to you. But it cannot possibly be the sole 
 report. What 1 want is that these important events shall be 
 placed before you in a collected form so that you may understand 
 how the matter rests. I do not understand why we have got into 
 this tangle. You seem to think that I am in some way so deep 
 that you cannot trust me to take a single step without supposing 
 that I am endeavouring [to drag you into some quagmire or 
 morass. I assure you that there is nothing further from my in- 
 tention. All that I wish is that you be put into possession of 
 all! information possible from the delegates, which information is 
 
 Dec. 6.
 
 Dec. 6. 
 
 170 RUPTURE OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 to be put into an orderly and regular fashion and will form por- 
 tion of our proceedings. I will ask Mr. Healy how far he is 
 acting in accordance with his deliberate judgment of what is just 
 and right in this matter when ho asks us to go into the considera- 
 tion of this grave and momentous position in a fragmentary 
 fashion. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mu. T. M. Healy reciprocated the courtesy and friendliness 
 with which Mr. Parnell met them the previous evening. The first 
 matter that arose was the communication from Mr. Gladstone to 
 them. Then followed Mr. Gladstone's reply, and their reply to 
 Mr. Gladstone. All these matters were in writing. Then fol- 
 lowed their interview with Mr. Gladstone. On Friday night, on 
 the suggestion and by the direction of Mr. Parnell, the four dele- 
 gates agreed to draw up a memorandum of their joint recollec- 
 tions with regard to that interview. That, therefore, existed in 
 writing. Then followed the rescinding of Mr. Clancy's resolu- 
 tion and the passing of Mr. John Redmond's resolution. Those 
 things were in writing. Then followed a fresh communication 
 with Mr. Gladstone and a fresh interview. Then followed Mr. 
 Gladstone's reply, and that also was in writing. There was no 
 matter in relation to this case from start to finish that was not in 
 writing. He could not see, therefore, why his resolution did not, 
 to use a theatrical phrase, " exactly fill the bill." The only 
 report he would consent to make was this — to stick six pins into 
 these different documents and join them together, and mako that 
 their report to the meeting. (Hear, hear.) If the intention were 
 that they were to go outside — and having spent two or three hours 
 the previous night in Mr. Parnell's room in hammering their 
 brains and cudgelling their intellects — to draw up an exact memo- 
 randum of what had occurred, if they wero to go further into tho 
 matter and tako tip time in trying to come to some further arrange- 
 ment on the point, he declinod. Every word that Mr. Gladstone 
 uttered to tho- delegates in the first instance was read from a 
 written communication, and in order that there might be no con- 
 flict as to its contents, he himself on the previous night advised 
 that Mr. Richard Power should address a communication to Mr. 
 Arnold Morley, who was present during the interview, with 
 reference to the statement. 
 
 Mr. Parnell said Mr. Power had obtained that. 
 
 Mr. Healy said that everything that was done was undor Mr.
 
 PROCEDURE— CONVERSATION. 171 
 
 Parnell's own eyes, and so careful was he on the previous night 
 that he took two copies of tho documents from Mr. Sexton. What 
 were the documents that were not before him 1 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I have not all the documents before me. 
 
 Mr. Healy said that must be the fault of Mr. Parnell's own 
 Whip and supporter, Mr. Power. 
 
 Mr. Arthur O'Connor thought that the drawing up of a 
 formal report might protract the proceedings. He hoped they 
 would have some regard for their dignity in connexion with the 
 proceedings. 
 
 Dr. Kenny contended that the meeting had a right to require 
 a narrative of the events in consecutive order. (Mr. Parnell. — 
 Hear, hear.) It was quite possible that the report might be a 
 separate report by every one of the delegates ; but what they 
 wanted was a simple narrative of the facts as they occurred re- 
 duced to writing. The delegates must give a narrative of the 
 whole proceedings, and he said they were simply wasting time. 
 (Loud ironical cheers from Mr. Parnell's opponents.) 
 
 Mr. Leamy. — We have no desire to waste time. 
 
 Dr. Kenny. — It is ridiculous and insulting to insinuate that 
 we are wasting time. (Cries of " Divide, divide.") 
 
 Mr. E. Harrington. — Rowdyism will not carry this. 
 
 Mr. Power, in the course of further discussion, said Mr. Red- 
 mond had prepared a short report. 
 
 Mr. Parnell remarked that there was nothing to prevent Mr. 
 Redmond from giving his narrative of his share in the proceed- 
 ings, but the question they were discussing was whether all the 
 delegates should retire to make a joint report. 
 
 Mr. Healy —I am afraid if this thing goes on there will be 
 more retiring than the retiring of the delegates. 
 
 Mr. Paenell said that upon Mr. Healy's amendment there 
 was nothing to prevent Mr. Redmond, or any other delegate, from 
 giving his account of what took place. At the same time it would 
 be an immensely more convenient course if they would, without 
 directing, allow the four delegates to retire and arrange the narra- 
 tive for consideration. 
 
 Mr. Barry. — Well, put Mr. Healy's motion. 
 
 Mr. Redmond. — Will I be allowed to say one word ? (Cries of 
 " No" and "Spoke.") 
 
 Mr. Sexton.— Hear Mr. Redmond. 
 
 Dec. 6.
 
 Dec. C. 
 
 172 RUPTURE OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Mit. Redmond repeated that the matter was so important that 
 the country would claim to have a precise and chronologically 
 arranged narrative of the different documents. 
 
 Mk. Healy said that could be done under his resolution, and 
 that, if Mr. Parnell liked, he would add to his resolution the 
 words "in chronological order." 
 
 Mil. J. Nolan said the deputation would only havo been show- 
 ing some courtesy in laying before tho moeting a formal report, 
 and he complained bitterly of the unnecessary waste of time that 
 had taken place. 
 
 Mn. Bahry called attention to Mr. Healy's proposal. 
 
 Mn. Parnell. — That does not carry out Mr. Redmond's pro- 
 posal. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — That is what he said. 
 
 Mr. Redmond. — This is one of the things. I want not only the 
 documents, but every event which led to them. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Blane considered that the delegates were bound to give 
 a report to the meeting that delegated them to conduct certain 
 negotiations. 
 
 Mr. O'Kelly said he thought they had a right to obtain tho 
 delegates' formal report on the matter. They had been engaged 
 in proceedings of enormous importance, possibly the pivot on 
 which the decision of the party should turn, and they had a 
 right to demand that the history of the negotiations, which must 
 have enormous influence, should be laid before them authorita- 
 tively. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Mahony said that when he was speaking some time beforo 
 Mr. Healy wished to retire with the other delegates. Why had 
 he changed 1 What objection could thero be to tho delegates 
 making that report when every one of them, even that ambitious 
 gentleman Mr. Healy — (interruption, and cries of "Withdraw") 
 —surely Mr. Healy did not hold a special licence to furnish 
 taunts. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Healy took every opportunity of in- 
 sulting them. ("No, no.") Well, he attacked as many of them 
 as he could possibly find tho opportunity. Mr. Healy would find 
 that possibly thoy might bo able to hit back. (Cheers.) Mr. 
 Redmond was ready to make a report. Were they going to shut 
 his mouth? ("No, no.") Well, if they earned Mr. Healy's 
 motion they did shut his mouth. 
 
 Mr. Sexton. — No, no.
 
 PROCEDURE— CONVERSATION. 173 
 
 Mr. Clancy asked what objection they had to a formal report. 
 If it were an easy matter, such as Mr. Healy and Mr. Sexton 
 said it was, and could be done in ten minutes 
 
 Me. Healy. — I was about to leave the room when stopped by 
 Mr. Harrington's threats. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. E. Harrington. — Pardon me, now. I saw you leaving the 
 room in an aggressive manner, as if inviting a following, and I 
 told j^ou to sit down — that neither now nor ever would you have a 
 party. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Healy rose to speak. 
 
 Mr. Harrington (in a loud voice). — You are doing everything 
 to ruin the country. (Cheers, and cries of "Order.") 
 
 Mr. Healy (vehemently). — I repel the suggestion, and I retort 
 it. (Counter cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Harrington. — I will say nothing now, but that we will 
 find out. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Clancy, resuming, said that it was agreed that the report 
 could be done in five minutes. 
 
 Mr. Harrington. — Then let it be done now, in God's name. 
 (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Clancy said that if the document were prepared no one 
 could go outside its four coiners hereafter, and that was an im- 
 portant consideration. (Hear, hear.) If there were any difference 
 of opinion between the delegates there was no possible chance of 
 that difference of opinion appearing there as a basis of discussion, 
 for it would not be in the report. 
 
 Mr. John Redmond. — There is no difference of opinion. 
 
 Mr. Campbell appealed to Mr. Sexton, in the interests of 
 peace and of the Irish race all the world over, to agree to let them 
 have the documents, from which they could gather the facts, so 
 as to be able to form their independent individual judgment on 
 what had taken place. 
 
 Mr. Justin McCarthy suggested that they should adjourn 
 for luncheon. 
 
 Mr. R. Power seconded the motion. 
 
 Mr. Healy objected strongly to any adjournment. He thought 
 that in a matter of that kind they should do without their 
 luncheon. (Loud cheers.) 
 
 Dr. Fitzgerald urged that the delegates should be allowed to 
 retire and consider their report, so that they might place before 
 
 Dec. 6.
 
 Dec. 6. 
 
 171 RUPTURE OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 tho country and tho meeting a precise account of everything that 
 had taken place. (Cheers.) Apparently, from the symptoms to 
 be seen on the other side of the room, every man there knew the 
 result of the negotiations which had taken place. He appealed 
 to Mr. Sexton to retire with the other three delegatos and place a 
 plain issue boforo the party. 
 
 Mr. Sexton said the country was in an agony of suspense, 
 and they found themselves led away day by day entirely from 
 tho main issue, which thoy would ultimately have to decide. 
 Now, he did not think it would be proper for him at this stage to 
 withhold the observation that tho majority of the party had made 
 up thoir minds (cheers and cries of " Oh, oh ") 
 
 Mn. Redmond. — They said that on Monday, too. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Sexton (continuing) said they had made up their minds 
 that these intolerably prolonged proceedings must be brought to a 
 closo to-day. If they could not be brought to a close by a motion 
 from the chair, they must be determined in some other way. If his 
 side were in a minority they would gladly retire ; but the fact 
 that they were in a majority placed a deep obligation upon them. 
 He was unwilling that the delegates should bo called upon to 
 consider a formal report. Certain communications had been made 
 by them, and copies of the letters which they had written were 
 in the hands of the officials ; and, in regard to the only matter 
 which was not before them or in writing, the four delegates had 
 already agreed to a narrative, committed it to writing, and 
 verified it by their signatures. The majority of the party could 
 not longer undertake the prolongation of the suspense to tho 
 country nor the strain on themselves. (" Oh, oh.") He could 
 not ondure it one day longer, and therefore, before the proceed- 
 ings came to a closo that day, thoy must ask Mr. Parnell to put 
 a motion from tho chair to determino tho final question, or they 
 would have to take such other measures as might be open to them. 
 (Cheers.) In the course of his remarks. Mr. Sexton suggested an 
 adjournment for half an hour, in accordance with Mr. M'Carthy's 
 proposal. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — It is proposed that we adjourn until a quarter 
 past 3, and that in the interval we hope that the delegates will 
 meet and come to some arrangement. 
 
 The motion for adjournment \\;ts then agreed i<>. On resuming 
 after luncheon,
 
 MR. PARNELL AND MR. M'CARTHY-A SCENE. 175 
 
 Mr. Parnell said, — Do you wish, Mr. Healy, to have your 
 resolution modified ? I understand the delegates have come to 
 some agreement as to the report they will present to us. 
 
 Mr. Healy said he moved his resolution believing that the 
 object of the -opposite side in desiring a report was that, the 
 moment the report or any resolution about it was placed before 
 the meeting, it was Mr. Parnell's intention to call upon some of 
 his friends to move a further obstructive resolution upon that 
 report. 
 
 Mr. Parnell said Mr. Healy must not impute motives or make 
 assertions which he was not prepared to substantiate. He should 
 confine himself to his resolution. 
 
 Mr. Healy said that, the delegates having agreed upon the 
 report, thereby proving there was no conflict between them, he 
 preferred leaving his motion with the meeting to be dealt with. 
 Mr. Healy subsequently altered his resolution so that it read as 
 follows : — " That the communications between this party and 
 the Liberal leaders, as embodied in the report of the delegates, be 
 read." 
 
 Mr. Parnell agreed to this. 
 
 Mr. John Redmond then proceeded to read the report recording 
 the negotiations with Mr. Gladstone described in Chapter IV. 
 The substance of this document has .been given nearly verbatim 
 above. It concludes as follows : — 
 
 " At all these conferences between the delegates, both before 
 and after the written and oral communications above mentioned, 
 the Whips and Mr. Parnell were present." 
 
 The report is signed — " Ed. Leamy, J. E. Redmond, Thos. 
 Sexton, and T. M. Healy," and is dated December 6, 1890. 
 
 At the conclusion of the reading of the report a scene of great 
 confusion arose, Mr. Abraham and Mr. -John O'Connor rising 
 together, and Mr. Parnell ruling that Mr. O'Connor had posses- 
 sion of the chair. Amid the confusion Mr. Abraham said he 
 wished to move a resolution, and tried to read it, but he could 
 not be heard. He thereupon handed it to Mr. M'Carthy, who 
 rose, and was apparently about to read it, when Mr. Parnell, who 
 throughout the scene remained standing, grasped the copy of the 
 resolution from Mr. M'Carthy, saying, " I will not receive it." 
 Mr. Parnell and Mr. M'Carthy then stood addressing each other 
 amid cries of " Chair " and " Order." 
 
 Dec. 6.
 
 Dkc. 6. 
 
 176 RUPTURE OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Mi:. Pabneil. — Until the party deposes mo from the chair I 
 am your chairman. (Loud cheers and counter-cheers.) 
 
 Mb. Barry. — You are not our chairman. (Cheers, and cries of 
 " Order.") 
 
 Mr. Justin M'Carthy addressed an observation to the chair- 
 man which could not be hoard owing to the din. 
 
 Mb. Parnell. — You attempted to movo a resolution surrepti- 
 tiously. (Cheers, and cries of " No.") 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Give us back our document. (Cheers, ccunter- 
 choors, and interruption.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell, in the midst of further disorder, still rulod that 
 Mr. O'Connor had the chair, and Mr. Barry exclaimed excitedly, 
 " You're a dirty trickster." (Cries of "Order," " Chair," and 
 interruption.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell.—" Order, order." (Uproar.) 
 
 Mr. Sheehy. — We will respect the Chair if it rospects tho 
 party, but if the Chair does not respect the party we cannot re- 
 spect the Chair. (Interruption.) 
 
 Mr. Arthur O'Connor. — I would appeal to my friends to 
 manifest to the chairman, our lato leader, every possible respect. 
 He has called upon Mr. O'Connor. Let Mr. O'Connor speak. 
 (Cheers and counter-cheers.) 
 
 Mr. T. Healy was understood to stato that Mr. O'Connor had 
 not risen when Mr. Abraham was on his feet. 
 
 Mr. C0R3ET (warmly). — Healy, you will have to answer for this. 
 (Cheers and counter-cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Healy. — So will you, too. 
 
 Mr. Parnell again called upon Mr. O'Connor, and repeated 
 that ho was their chairman until they deposed him. 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Allow me to depose you. (Cheers and counter- 
 cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell again called upon Mr. John O'Connor, but Mr. 
 O'Connor was not allowed to proceed. 
 
 Mr. Sexton rose, and Mr. Parnell exclaimed, " Silence, Sir. 
 Mr. O'Connor." 
 
 Mr. Sexton remarked that Mr. O'Connor was soated when Mr. 
 Abraham rose, and Mr. Abraham said that was true, but Mr. 
 O'Connor denied it. Mr. Sexton at last suggested that they 
 should submit to tho ruling of the Chair, and asked Mr. Parnell 
 to call upon Mr. Abraham when Mr. O'Connor sat down.
 
 MR. PARNELL AND MR. M'CARTIIY— A SCENE. 177 
 
 Mu. Parnell, — Certainly. Of course it will be necessary for 
 Mr. John O'Connor's resolution to bo seconded. (" Hear, 
 hear," and ironical laughter.) I may state, for the information of 
 the meeting, that I did not either see or hear Mr. Abraham until 
 after 1 had called upon Mr. John O'Connor. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Justin M'Carthy said he had risen to a point of strictly 
 Parliamentary order. As he was about to express that point some 
 one handed him a letter of some kind, and the chairman struck it 
 outof his hand. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mn. Parnell.— I took it out of your hand. (Cheers.) 
 
 Colonel Nolan. — No, no, he did not -strike it out of your 
 hand. 
 
 Mb. M'Cakthy said he did not know what the letter contained 
 or whom it came from. On that ground Mr. Parnell said he was 
 going to act as chairman and suggest something that some one 
 gave me, and that gave rise to the fearful storm that had been 
 raging. (Hear, hear.) As to his point of order, when a differ- 
 ence of opinion arose between the Speaker and anybody in the 
 House as to who had first caught the Speaker's eye, it was in the 
 power of any man, and in his right, to move that that member be 
 first heard, and not the other member. 
 
 Mr. Edward Harrington. — It was never done. 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy.— Well done, Harrington. 
 
 Mr. Harrington. — 111 done, Healy. You will always get 
 your answer from me, Healy. (Cries of " Order.") 
 
 Mr. M'Carthy. — I say it was moved by Mr. Cowan, of New- 
 castle, and carried against the Speaker. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — There was no such thing. 
 
 Mr. M'Carthy. — That point of order I was going to raise when 
 our chairman struck the letter out of my hand and refused to hear 
 me. (Cries of " No, no.") 
 
 Mr. Parnell, — Your friends refused to hear you by their 
 clamour. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. M'Carthy.— You struck the letter out of my hand. (" Hear, 
 hear " and cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — You were about to put some resolution, thereby 
 usurping my functions. 
 
 Mr. M'Carthy. — I was not. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — That was my interpretation of your action. 
 
 Mr. M'Carthy. — You might have asked me what 1 was going 
 
 M 
 
 Dec. 6.
 
 Dec. g. 
 
 178 RUPTURE OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 to do. I might have expected that courtasy from your hands. 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Mit. Parnell again called on Mr. John O'Connor. 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy.— 1 move that Mr. Abraham be heard. 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — That motion is entirely out of order. (Hear, 
 hear.) 
 
 Mb. Healy.— Put the motion. 
 
 Mr. Parxell. — I refuse to put it. (Loud choers.) 
 
 Mr. Healy. — Then I will put it myself. (Cheers.) 
 
 Dr. Fitzgerald. — AY ho are you ? You are not the leader of the 
 Irish people. (Cheers.) 
 
 Me. Parxell. — Goon, Mr. John O'Connor. 
 
 Mr. Johx O'Connor.— Mr. Healy has betrayed himself by his 
 haste into premature action. He is not leader yet. (Cheers.) 
 Permit me to say that I had endeavoured to catch your eye to 
 move this resolution, and had risen from my seat. (Cries of 
 " You had not.") The resolution I have to move is as follows : — 
 
 " That, having received from the delegates from this meeting a 
 report of the proceedings between Mr. Gladstone and the dele- 
 gates of the party appointed to confer with him, and having read 
 Mr. Gladstone's letter of yesterday, we regret to learn, and wo 
 call the attention of our countrymen to the fact, that although tho 
 terms of the original resolution appointing the delegation were 
 specially altered to suit his views and to remove the barrier which 
 ho stated stood in the way of the proposed conference, Mr. 
 Gladstone still refuses to enter into negotiations with tho Irish 
 party, or to state his views on the two vital points submitted for 
 his consideration, except upon tho condition that this party shall 
 lirst remove Mr. Parnell from tho chairmanship." 
 He submitted that that resolution was not made with a view to 
 obstruction. He had heard the report of tho delegates with very 
 great regret. As far as he possibly could, he would refrain from 
 saying anything offensivo to Mr. Gladstone. But if there was 
 anything which would justify tho charges made against Mr. 
 Gladstone — anything which would justify Mr. Parnell in his 
 statement that it was difficult to get anything out of Mr. Glad- 
 stone but what was indirect and uncertain — it was his conduct in 
 reference to these negotiations. (Choers.) He rejoiced when tho 
 delegates came to them to make an alteration in the terms of tho
 
 MR. J. O'CONNOR'S RESOLUTION-MR. J. O'CONNOR. 179 
 
 reference, and had thought it was only necessary to make the 
 
 . . . i ■ DEC. O. 
 
 alteration in order to place Mr. Gladstone in a position to bring 
 about a settlement of the question at issue and a determination 
 of the crisis. He was borne out in that by the statements in the 
 newspapers speaking for the Liberal party. To his intense regret, 
 the hopes they entertained were broken. Why had Mr. Gladstone 
 altered his mind 1 He had done so in obedience to English feel- 
 ing — to manufactured English feeling. (Hear, hear.) But what 
 had become of the noble idea that Ireland was to be ruled accord- 
 ing to Irish ideas ? He had thought that Mr. Gladstone would 
 keep that idea in his mind, but he asserted that in his conduct 
 towards this party he had parted from that position. (Cheers.) 
 There could be no doubt that the feeling in Ireland and of the 
 Irish people abroad was with Mr. Parnell and for his maintenance 
 of the leadership. (Cheers.) He contended that any attempt 
 of Mr. Gladstone and the Liberal party at dictation would be re- 
 sented by the Irish people. Mr. Parnell's opponents were placing 
 themselves unreservedly in the leadership of Mr. Gladstone. 
 They said "No," but let them read Sir William Harcourt's letter, 
 and he said " Treat with Mr. Gladstone." 
 
 Mr. A. O'Connor.— He is not a member of the party. 
 
 Mr. J. Redmond. — The master of the party. (Cheers and 
 counter cheers.) 
 
 Mr. T. Healy. — W 7 ho is to be the mistress of the party I (Cries 
 of " Shame " and noise, several members calling oat remarks 
 which could not be distinguished in the uproar.) 
 
 Mr. W. Redmond. — They must be very badly off when they go 
 to arguments like that, 
 
 A voice. — It is time. 
 
 Mr. A. O'Connor. — I appeal to my friend the chairman. 
 (Noise.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— Better appeal to your own friends ; better 
 appeal to that cowardly little scoundrel there (noise), that in an 
 assembly of Irishmen dares to insult a woman. (Loud cheers and 
 counter-cheers.) 
 
 Mr. A. O'Connor said he was going to appeal to his friend Mr. 
 Painell by saying that whatever painful duty they had to dis- 
 charge, they should discharge it like gentlemen. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. John O'Connor said he pitied the Irish gentlemen, the 
 representatives of a nation of gentlemen, who were obliged to 
 
 m— 2
 
 Dec. C. 
 
 180 RUPTURE OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 accept tlio leadership of a coward who dared to insult a woman. 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 Mk. Condon protested against Mr. O'Connor's language, and 
 said he, for one, was not under the leadership of any one. 
 
 Mb. John O'Connor said that Mr. Parnell, as chairman of 
 that party for the last eight or nine years, would be insisted upon 
 by the Irish people to demand securities for those liberties which 
 he had been commissioned to obtain for them before ho disbanded 
 his army. (Hear, hear.) The Irish people knew the history of 
 their country, and knew from the quarrel between Grattan and 
 Flood that the man who demanded securities for the preservation 
 of thoir liberties was in the right. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mk. W. Redmond. — And one of the men who defended Ireland's 
 liberty was Parnell's ancestor. 
 
 Mr. J. O'Connor said that all their liberties had been taken 
 from them, and a Parliament as was proposed, which would bo 
 allowed to make laws but not to enforce them, would be a sham, a 
 mockery, and a delusion to the Irish people. With regard to the 
 Hawarden conference, he defended Mr. Parnell's action in 
 divulging its nature after having kept it secret so long before he 
 was deprived of an opportunity of safeguarding the principles that 
 ho himself considered necossary. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. O'Kelly, in seconding the motion, thought that tho answer 
 which they had received from Mr. Gladstone was a warning to 
 gentlemen on the opposite side. It was a new evidence of tho 
 danger of departing from absolute independence in dealing with 
 tho English parties in this country. "While in one part of the 
 response thoy wero told Uiat there was no desire to interfere with 
 the action or the independence of the Irish party (hear), in another 
 and most vital part of the communication it was clearly laid down 
 that unless the party did a certain thing no communication would 
 be held with the party. (Loud cheers.) The order had gono forth 
 that before the new party could be recognized it must depose its 
 chief. (Loud cheers arrd counter-cheers.) They who had been 
 members up to this day of a united party would bo no party to a 
 transaction of that kind, and he was suro that in taking their 
 stand by their leader thoy were acting for the benefit of their 
 country and in the interests of their constituents, wdiose wishes, 
 ho believed, they were carrying out. There would bo a grave
 
 MR. J. O'CONNOR'S RESOLUTION— MR. ABRAHAM. 181 
 
 responsibility upon the gentlemen who had announced their 
 intention of becoming a separate party. 
 
 Mr. Abraham felt that any attempt to carry a Liberal majority 
 at the next general election must prove unsuccessful if Mr. Glad- 
 stone should be induced by anything they did there to retire from 
 the leadership of the party. (Cheers, and cries of " JNo.") He 
 had, therefore, felt that Mr. Parnell should retire. (Cheers.) As he 
 had not done so, however, he himself thought they would be want- 
 ing in respect to themselves if they did not bring matters to an 
 issue. They ought to decide who should be their chairman. 
 (Cheers.) The resolution in which they attempted to bring the 
 discussion to an issue having been ignominiously treated by the 
 chairman and torn to pieces in his hands (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — That is distinctly untrue that 1 tore the resolu- 
 tion — quite untrue. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Abraham would not enter into an altercation on the sub- 
 ject, but he repeated that the party would be wanting in respect 
 to themselves and in duty to their constituents if they allowed 
 the minority to continue the tactics by which the party had been 
 made the laughing-stock of the world. (Cheers.) Mr. Parnell 
 and his friends desired to appeal to Cyesar ; unto C?esar let 
 them go. His own side would be willing to stand or fall by the 
 same decision — the decision of the people. (Cheers and counter- 
 cheers.) He would ask permission to move his resolution as an 
 amendment to Mr. O'Connor's resolution — 
 
 " That we, the members of the Irish Parliamentary party, 
 declare that Mr. Parnell's tenure of the chairmanship of this 
 party is hereby terminated." 
 
 Colonel Nolan. — I rise to order. No one could construe 
 that as an amendment. 
 
 Mr. M. Healy (to Mr. Parnell).— You declared Mr. Clancy's 
 amendment, which had no possible connexion with the resolu- 
 tion, to be an amendment to the resolution. 
 
 Mr. T. Healy. — But circumstances alter cases. 
 
 Mr. John Redmond said that Mr. Clancy's amendment was 
 quite consistent with Mr. Barry's proposal, which was not that 
 Mr. Parnell should be deposed from the chair, but that there 
 should be an adjournment till Friday to enable Mr. Parnell to 
 consider his decision. 
 
 Mr, Parnell. — I have now had the opportunity of examining 
 
 Dec. 6.
 
 Dec. G. 
 
 182 RUPTURE OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 the original resolution proposed by Mr. John O'Connor, and the 
 resolution suggested by Mr. Abraham as an amendment to it, 
 and I rule that the resolution suggested by Mr. Abraham as an 
 amendment to the original resolution is no amendment what- 
 ever to the original resolution. (Cheers, and cries of " Oh, 
 oh.") 
 
 Mi;. He alt.— Bravo, bravo ! 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Mr. Healy, I will not stand very much more 
 from you. (Cheers.) I say it is no amendment whatever to the 
 original resolution, and it can only be put as a substantive 
 motion. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. A. O'Connor said that those who, like himself, acquiesced 
 mistrustfully, but yet acquiesced in the suggested conference 
 with the Liberal leaders, did so in the hope that it might prove a 
 golden bridge for the voluntary retirement of Mr. Parnell, with a 
 sincere desire to bring the existing -position to an amicable end, 
 and to preserve the unity and amity of that party for the great 
 work that yet remained to be done. (Hear, hear.) Their hopes 
 had been dashed, and they now found themselves in the position 
 in which they stood before Mr. Clancy's amendment was pro- 
 posed. (Hear, hoar.) Apparently now they were invited to resume 
 the wearisome and, as it seemed to him, unseemly round of 
 further amendments from only particular quarters, of successive 
 adjournments, and of altercations of a not very dignified charac- 
 ter. (Cheers.) They had already spent a whole week at that 
 work, and the prospect of a formal decision had become more and 
 moro dim. (Hear, hear.) It was obvious that a determined 
 minority, favoured by the chairman, who was personally interested 
 (cheers), could, if they chose, indefinitely postpone the record of 
 the decision of tho majority. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Nothing of the sort. 
 
 Mr. O'Connor said that, whatever might bo the proceedings of 
 the minority and whatever tho decision of the chair, there was 
 inherent in tho majority right, power, and authority, some way 
 or other, to define and record its position. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell.— I am bound to point out to the meeting a fact 
 of which you must be very sensible, Mr. O'Connor, with your 
 long experience, that up to the present moment you have not ad- 
 dressed yourself to a single portion of the resolution. (Cheers.) 
 You are favouring us with a lecture about obstruction, on which
 
 SECESSION OF THE MAJORITY. 183 
 
 you are undoubtedly well qualified to speak (laughter), but it is 
 not the subject before the chair. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. O'Connor. — My experience also tells me that when there 
 is a motion before the chair it is right to move an amendment, and 
 in my speech to lead up to that amendment. (Cheers.) 1 am 
 endeavouring to come to it. We have been very moderate in this 
 matter, and there is danger of our moderation being misconstrued. 
 (Hear, hear.) We are in danger of appearing to the country as if 
 shirking our duty. We are in danger of becoming the laughing- 
 stock of the world. (Unanimous cheers.) I think this thing has 
 gone on> long enough. (Cheers.) I think further words only a 
 waste of time, and a loss of dignity, and therefore I invite my 
 colleagues to make an end of the business. (Cheers.) The time 
 has now come not to talk but to act. (Loud cheering.) We owe 
 it to ourselves, to our party, to our country, to make an end of 
 what is rapidly becoming a disgraceful farce. I ask the over- 
 whelming majority of this party to decide now and at once to 
 record their decision, if not here, then elsewhere. (Cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Mr. Arthur O'Connor knows perfectly well that 
 that is not an amendment. 
 
 Mr. A. O'Connor. — Very well, if it cannot be put here 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy.— Wait awhile, Arthur. 
 
 Mr. Leamy said they had heard a good deal of the old cries of 
 obstruction. He was proceeding, when 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy asked if Mr. Leamy was in order. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — He is perfectly in order. 
 
 Mr. T. M. Healy.— I thought you ruled Mr. Arthur O'Connor 
 out of order. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — He chose to make a speech, and it will have to 
 be answered. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Leamy went on to say that if they were at all within their 
 right to bring the charge of obstruction against Mr. Parnell and 
 his followers, they might have done it in a manner which would 
 show that they had some tenderness for the man who by the use 
 of this very same weapon of obstruction, when he had very little 
 support, brought their country to its present glorious position. 
 (Hear, hear.) 
 
 SECESSION OF THE MAJORITY. 
 Mr. Justin M'Cartpy thought the time had come when they 
 
 Dec. 6.
 
 Dec. 0. 
 
 lsl RUPTURE OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 ought to bring this dobato to a close. (Hear, hear.) He did not 
 want to say one word to increase tho bitterness of a crisis like the 
 present, but he had hoped up to last night that their chairman 
 would still help them out of this terrible, this national, this 
 organic difficulty. Ho was disappointed that Mr. Parnell had not 
 lent them more assistance out of tho dilemma, and he felt that 
 tbey would bo wasting time in further controversy, when it had 
 been made clear that tho door was to be barred against any 
 definite settlement of the controversy in that room. (" Hoar, 
 hoar " and " No, no.") Ho saw no further use is carrying on a 
 discussion which must bo barron of all but reproach, ill-temper, 
 and indignity, and he would, therefore, suggest that all who 
 thought with him at this grave crisis should withdraw with hira 
 from the room. (Loud cheers.) 
 
 Mr. J. H. M'Carthy (speaking amid interruption caused by 
 members leaving tho room). — I am a member of a constitutional 
 party. (Cries of " Ordor," and noise.) I said it was my inten- 
 tion to vote with Mr. Parnell. I did vote with Mr. Parnell. I 
 would have voted with him again if the decision had taken place 
 to-night, as to my mind it has taken place. The question is 
 over ; the majority has decided. I am sorry for the decision, but 
 it is decided, and I go with tho party, (Loud cheers and 
 dissent.) 
 
 The majority of tho party thon left tho room, leaving Mr. 
 Parnell in tho chair and the following members : — 
 Blane, A., South Armagh M'Kenna, Sir J. N., South 
 
 Byrne, G. M., West "Wicklow Monaghan 
 
 Campbell, H., South Fermanagh Maguire, T. R., North Donegal 
 
 Clancy, J. J., North Dublin Co. Mahony, P., North Meath 
 Conway, M., North Leitrim Nolan, Colonel J. P., North 
 
 Corbet, W. J., East Wicklow Oalway 
 
 Dalton, J., West Donegal Nolan, J., North Louth 
 
 Fitzgerald, Dr. J. G., South O'Connor, J., South Tipperary 
 Longford O 'Kelly, J. J., North Roscom- 
 
 Harrington, E., West Kerry mon 
 
 Harrison, H., Mid Tipperary Power, R., Waterford City 
 
 Hayden, L. P., South Leitrim Quinn, T., Kilkenny City 
 
 Kenny, Dr. J. E., South Cork Redmond, J., North Wexford 
 
 Leamy/Ed., South Sligo Redmond, W., North Fermanagh 
 
 Macdonald, W. A., Ossory Sheil, E., South Moath 
 
 Division, Queen's County 
 
 When the mooting had again settled down. 
 Colonel Nolan said that now that Mr. Huntly M'Carthy 
 had made a change, they made ovory possible allowanco for tho
 
 MR. J. O'CONNOR'S RESOLUTION— COL. NOLAN. 185 
 
 contending feelings which had drawn him in two directions -in 
 one direction by his judgment and the wishes of his constituents, 
 and in the other by family ties. Therefore not a word would be 
 said in reprobation of the course taken by Mr. Huntly M'Carthy. 
 The gentlemen who had left the room, he went on, had exercised 
 a right, but it was the right of departing from that party. He 
 went on to contend that they had had only two days of real 
 debate — Monday and Tuesday — and yet they were told that they 
 had exhausted the question. He was afraid that what had 
 happened was of a totally different nature. The country, being 
 enlightened by the debates of Monday and Tuesday, for the first 
 time understood the position in which Mr. Parnell stood, and 
 commenced to pronounce in his favour. A number of gentlemen 
 were very much afraid that that process would go on, and so they 
 were most anxious to terminate the discussion which would en- 
 lighten the people of Ireland as to the true position. (Cheers.) 
 He went on to say that perhaps some people would like to under- 
 stand the balance of English parties. There were 306 Conserva- 
 tives, 68 Unionists, 86 of the Irish party, and 209 Liberals. Mr. 
 Gladstone calculated that at the next election he would get an 
 increase of 12 per cent., so that the numbers would be — Conserva- 
 tives 250, the Unionists 53, the Irish members 86, and the 
 Liberals 280. It was obvious from that that without the Irish 
 party the Liberals would be able to do nothing, even if they took 
 the Unionists into their camp. But some said the Liberals would 
 get a greater gain than 70 seats, but there was one condition even 
 of them getting the 12 per cent.— viz., the Irish vote. He had 
 been a Whip for seven years, and had talked the matter over with 
 all the leaders, and they could never make out that the Irish vote 
 in England was worth less than 40 seats. Whether they would 
 vote with the Liberals or Conservatives he could not tell, but he 
 believed if Mr. Parnell were to go through those constituencies 
 they would rally to give the Liberals a majority sufficient to give 
 Home Rule. In concluding, Colonel Nolan said that whatever 
 Mr. Parnell's position might be for the next two or three years, 
 he would have ranked his name with that of O'Connell as the 
 greatest Irishman for the last three centuries. (Cheers.) 
 
 Dit. Fitzgerald repudiated with indignation the charges 
 levelled by Mr. Healy against what he called " Irish hillside 
 men and Irish brogues." He was a hillside man, but he remem- 
 
 Dec. 6.
 
 Dbc. C 
 
 186 RUPTURE OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 borod well the danger those hillside men had faced, rightly or 
 wrongly, for the sake of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mu. YV. Redmond, in giving the reasons why he intended to 
 follow Mr. Parnell'a leadership, said that he had come solemnly 
 to the conclusion that the only reason why the continuance of 
 Mr. Parnoll as leader was opposed was because it would not 
 please Mr. Gladstone. (Cheers.) Mr. Parnell had offered to 
 retire if they could ascertain from Mr. Gladstone what the Homo 
 Rule was that was to be proposed. Mr. Parnell could not have 
 acted fairer than that. He himself would not remain in the 
 House of Commons a single day if his leader were to be chosen by 
 Mr. Gladstone, or any other English statesman. He for one would 
 not, in the absence of assurances from Mr. Gladstone, consent to 
 throw away the man who, above all others, had shown himself 
 able to cope with the cunning of Mr. Gladstone and other Eng- 
 lish statesmen who deceived Irishmen in days gone by, and 
 whoso deceit would be practised again if they sent their leader 
 from their midst. For those reasons ho intended to persevere in 
 that House, as far as he could, to maintain Mr. Parnell's leader- 
 ship in that House. (Loud cheers.) 
 
 Mr. Blane said they were not unmindful of the fact that the 
 Tenant Right party formed in 1852 was split up by men who had 
 previously gone about tho country making patriotic speeches. 
 Thoso nun were afterwards found on tho bench sentencing unfor- 
 tunate men in the dock for following the advice they gave them. 
 Let them be careful that tho days of Keogh were not coming 
 again. He would say what ho intonded to tell his constituents, 
 that a certain compact was entered into with Peter the Packer. 
 
 Mr. Leamy. — Enough. This is very injudicious. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — Mr. Plane, I wish to tell you that the Serjeant- 
 at-Arms says we shall have to leave at 5 o'clock. 
 
 Mr. Blane. — Then I move the adjournment until Monday. 
 
 Mr. Parnell. — I will put tho resolution. (Cheers.) I wish 
 to say, in putting this resolution, that the men who have deserted 
 from our party this evening have deserted on the eve of the day 
 when we were about to return to our country, and that thoso men, 
 while clamouring for a decision, clamoured for that decision 
 because they dreaded the lightning of public opinion in Ireland. 
 (Cheers.) I recognize the right of postponing a decision as long 
 as tho postponement of that decision gives time to the country to
 
 lit. PAUNjJLti DEPOSED BY TilE SECEDERS. 187 
 
 understand the issne. (Hear, hear.) I recognize the right of a 
 minority not to obstruct, but to claim full and fair freedom of 
 debate (hear, hear), where that freedom of debate gives the 
 opportunity to the Irish nation to rally round us as it has done 
 to-day. (Cheers.) It was this Irish nation that has consolidated 
 round us from Ireland, America, England, Scotland, and every 
 other direction that those men feared ; it was this Irish opinion 
 they wished to stifle that they have recoiled from ; and it was 
 this Irish opinion they fled from when they fled from this room 
 this evening. (Loud cheers.) Gentlemen, we have won to-day. 
 (Loud cheers.) Although our ranks are reduced in number, I hold 
 this chair still. (Renewed cheering.) Although many of those 
 who were our comrades have left us, Ireland has power to fill 
 their ranks again. (Cheers.) Ireland has power to send us good 
 men and true for every one of those who have left us, and 1 little 
 know our gallant country if I am mistaken in the opinion that 
 when she gets the opportunity she will freely exercise that power. 
 (Renewed cheers.) They left this room because their position 
 here was no longer tenable. (Hear, hear.) They saw they had 
 arrayed against them that great force to which we must all bow — 
 that great force without which none of them would ever have 
 come here. (Hear, hear.) And, recognizing that position, they 
 stand to-day in the most contemptible of all positions — the 
 position of men who, having taken pledges to be true to their 
 party, to be true to their leader, to be true to their country, have 
 been false to all those pledges. (Loud cheers.) 
 
 The resolution of Mr. John O'Connor was then put to the 
 meeting and carried unanimously, amid acclamation. 
 
 The proceedings then terminated. 
 
 Dec. 6. 
 
 MEETING OF THE MAJORITY— DEPOSITION OF MR. 
 
 PARNELL. 
 
 The majority of the party, after leaving Committee Room 
 No. 15, adjourned to the Conference Room, when it was found 
 that 45 members were j resent. Mr. John Deasy, the Whip, was 
 moved to the chair. It was in the first place moved by Mr. 
 Arthur O'Connor and seconded by Mr. J. F. X. O'Brien : — 
 
 " That, acting under an imperative sense of duty to our 
 country, we, the undersigned, being an absolute majority of the 
 whole number of the Irish Parliamentary party, declare that
 
 188 
 
 RUPTURE OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Dec. C. 
 
 Mr. Parnoll's torm of chairmanship of this party is horoby 
 terminated." 
 
 This having been carried, Mr. T. M. Healy moved, and Mr. 
 Sexton seconded, the election of Mr. Justin M'Carthy as 
 " Sessional chairman " of the party. It was also resolved, on 
 the proposition of Mr. Chance, seconded by Mr. Molloy : — 
 
 " That a committee is hereby constituted to exercise jointly with 
 the chairman the powers and discharge the functions hitherto 
 attached to the chairmanship of the party ; and that this com- 
 mittee do consist of eight members of the party, to be chosen by 
 ballot on Monday next at 2 p.m." 
 
 On the proposition of Mr. Abraham, seconded by Mr. D. 
 Sheehy, the following declaration was agreed to : — 
 
 " Wo hereby solemnly renew our adhesion to the principle in 
 devotion to which we have never wavered — viz., that the Irish Par- 
 liamentary party is, and always must remain, independent of 
 all other parties ; and we further declare that tve will never enter- 
 tain any proposal for the settlement of the Home Rule question 
 except such as satisfies the aspirations of the Irish people. 
 
 M'Carthy, Justin, Derry City 
 
 (Chairman) 
 Abraham, W . , West Limerick 
 Barry, J., South Wexford 
 Chance, P. A., South Kilkenny 
 Commins, A., South Roscommon 
 Condon, T. J., East Tipperary 
 Cox, J. R., East Clare 
 Cnlly, D., North Mayo 
 Deasy, J., West Mayo 
 Dickson, T. A., St. Stephen's 
 
 Green, Dublin 
 Esmonde, Sir T. H. G., South 
 
 Dublin Co. 
 Finucane, J., East Limerick 
 Flynn, J. C, North Cork 
 Foley, P. J., Conucmara Divi- 
 sion, Co. Gal way 
 Fox, J. F., Tullamore Division, 
 
 King's County 
 Healy, M., Cork City 
 Healy, T. M., North Longford 
 Jordan, J., West Clare 
 Kenny, M. J., Mid Tyrone 
 Kilbride, D., South Kerry 
 Knox, E. F , West Cavan 
 Lane, W. J., East Cork 
 
 M'Cartan, M., South Down 
 M'Carthy, J. H., Newry 
 M'Donald, P., North Sligo 
 MacNeill, J. G. S., South 
 
 Donegal 
 Molloy, B. C, Birr Division, 
 
 King's County 
 Morrogh, J., South-East Cork 
 Murphy, W. M., St. Patrick's 
 
 Division, Dublin 
 O'Brien, J. F. X., South Mayo 
 O'Brien, P. J., North Tipperary 
 O'Connor, A., East Donegal 
 O'KeefVe, F. A., Limerick City 
 l'inkcrton, J., Galway City 
 Bower, 1'. J., East Waterford 
 Reynolds, W. J., East Tyrone 
 Roche, J., EastGalway 
 Sexton, T., West Belfast 
 Sheehan, J. D., East Kerry 
 Sheehy, D., South Galway 
 Stack, J., North Kerry 
 Sullivan, D., South Westmeath 
 Tanner, Dr. C. R., Mid Cork 
 Tuite, J., North Westmeath 
 Webb, A., West Waterford
 
 MR. PARNELL AND MR. WILLIAM O'BRIEN. 189 
 
 At a late hour the same night an informal conference of the 
 anti-Parnellites was held for the purpose of deciding what steps 
 should be taken for strengthening the position of the party in view 
 of the anticipated campaign against them in Ireland. Mr. Justin 
 M'Carthy presided, and the whole of the 45 members opposed to 
 Mr. Parnell's retention of the leadership were present. It was 
 resolved—" That Messrs. Justin M'Carthy, Dickson, Murphy, 
 Barry, Morrogh, T. Healy, and Sexton be constituted a committee, 
 with power to draw up a prospectus for the formation of a limited 
 company to establish and conduct a daily National journal in 
 Ireland." Mr. John Barry and Mr. Alfred Webb were added to 
 the list of treasurers, and a subscription list having been opened 
 to meet urgent needs, contributions to the amount of £1,020 were 
 announced, every gentleman present subscribing. 
 
 PROCEEDINGS OF DECEMBER 8 AND 9. 
 
 Mr. Parnell spent the greater portion of the afternoon and even- 
 ing of Monday, December 8, at St. Stephen's, but he was seen 
 very little in the House of Commons. He remained some time 
 in the library, discussing with Mr. John Redmond and others his 
 programme for the next few weeks. Subsequently he proceeded 
 to the smoking-room, where a considerable number of his sup- 
 porters had gathered, and further conferences took place. 
 
 The following telegrams passed between Mr. O'Brien and 
 Mr. Parnell :— 
 
 " To Parnell, House of Commons, London. — I shrink with 
 horror from taking sides with you in a struggle which opens such 
 appalling prospect of ruin and disgrace to our cause. Throughout 
 this unhappy business I have refrained from saying one word 
 personally offensive to you, and have read with deepest pain and 
 disgust some of personal attacks made on you. And now before 
 Ireland is irretrievably committed to a ruinous conflict I appeal 
 to you, as a leader I have for ten years been proud to follow, and 
 as a friend for whom I still feel warm affection, can you not see 
 some way by which, while safeguarding your own reputation, the 
 country may be saved from the utter destruction that threatens 
 it ? William O'Brien, Hoffman-house." 
 
 Dec. 6. 
 
 Dec. 8.
 
 Di-.c. 8. 
 
 190 RUPTURE OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 To this Mr. Pamell cabled the following reply : — 
 " Had j'ou wired prior to Saturday some suggestions from me 
 might have succeeded. Now too late for me to rescue seceders 
 from false position. Shall, however, be glad to see and consult 
 with you on arrival in Europe." 
 
 Anti-Parnellite Meeting. 
 
 In accordance with the decision arrived at on the previous 
 Saturday night, the anti-Parnellites held a meeting at 2 
 o'clock on Monday, December 8, for the purpose of completing 
 their arrangements in view of the impending contest in Ire- 
 land. The circulars convening the meeting had been sent 
 to all the mombers of the Irish party, but, as was antici- 
 pated, only those opposed to Mr. Pamell's retontion of the 
 leadership put in an appearance. Mr. Justin M'Carthy pre- 
 sided, and upwards of 40 members attended. On the motion of 
 Mr. Sexton, it was agreed, "That this meeting of the Irish Par- 
 liamentary party, to which every member was invited, do hereby 
 solemnly ratify the resolutions passed at the meeting held 
 on Saturday last in the Conference Room of the House of 
 Commons." 
 
 Sir Thomas Esmonde was appointed as an additional Whip to 
 tho party. It was then resolved, " That our chairman, Mr. Justin 
 M'Carthy, bo authorized, if he deem it expedient, to prepare an 
 address to the Irish people at home and abroad on tho 
 present aspect of the Jrish quostion with regard to tho future 
 policy of the party." 
 
 Mr. Deasy was empowered by tho meeting to move for a writ 
 for North Kilkenny, and the meeting then proceeded to eloct a 
 standing committee " to assist tho chairman by their counsel 
 and advice." Voting was by ballot, the method adopted being 
 that in force at meetings of the National League. The Whips 
 and secretaries of the party having first appointed scrutineers, 
 each member present wrote on a slip of paper the names of eight 
 gentlemen for whom he intended to vote. Then, tho lists having 
 been collected and analyzed, the first eight names were 
 announced by tho chairman as -those of tho committee, no other 
 information being vouchsafed. These names were — W. Abraham,
 
 SIR J. POPE HENNESSY DECLARES FOR THE MAJORITY. 191 
 
 J. Dillon, T. M. Healy, W. O'Brien, A. O'Connor, T. P. 
 O'Connor, D. Sheohy, and T. Sexton. 
 
 A number of telegrams and letters having been read in support 
 of tho action taken by the majority on Saturday, the meeting ad- 
 journed until Tuesday, December 9, at 2 o'clock. The adhesion 
 of Mr. Gilhooly and the 'Gorman Mahon has increased the 
 voting strength of the anti-Parnellites to 52. 
 
 On Tuesday, December 9, Mr. Parnell received a telegram from 
 Sir John Pope Hennessy, in which the latter declared that in 
 view of the Bishops Manifesto, he could not as an Irish Catholic 
 stand by Mr. Parnell. 
 
 At the adjourned anti-Parnellite meeting on the same day, Mr. 
 Justin M'Carthy in the chair, Sir John Pope Hennessy's tele- 
 gram to Mr. Parnell was read. It was agreed to telegraph at 
 once to Sir John Pope Hennessy asking whether he would stand 
 as an anti-Parnellite. 
 
 The following telegram addressed to Mr. M'Carthy was also 
 read : — 
 
 " We are, of course, in cordial sympathy with your resolutions. 
 As to the methods to be emplo}-ed in the immediate future, owing 
 to the impossibility of having adequate consultation by cable, we 
 desire, as hitherto, to leave the responsibility to you, we co- 
 operating by methods we believe best to secure Mr. Parnell's 
 withdrawal and the reunion of the party. 
 
 " Dillon. 
 
 " O'Brien. 
 
 " O'Connor. 
 
 " Sullivan. 
 
 " Gill." 
 
 MR. PARNELL'S DEPARTURE FOR IRELAND. 
 Mr. Parnell left London for Dublin on the evening of Tuesday, 
 December 9. He travelled by the night mail starting from Euston 
 at 8 20. Mr. Richard Power, M.P., chief Whip of the party, was 
 in waiting at the station, and was shortly afterwards joined by 
 Mr. Barry, M.P. At 8 15 there was a rush of people who had 
 gathered at the entrance to the station. Mr. Parnell had then 
 
 Dec. 8. 
 
 Dec.
 
 Dice. 9. 
 
 192 RUPTURE OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 arrived, and was escorted from his cab by about 20 of his Parlia- 
 mentary supporters to the door of the carriage engaged for his 
 conveyance, he having declined a special saloon which was 
 offered him. Amongst thoso present were Messrs. E. Harrington, 
 John O'Connor, Kenny, and Chance. While Mr. Parnell was 
 thus accompanied to his seat in the train, Mr. T. Healy and his 
 brother, Mr. Maurice Healy, entered the station and proceeded 
 to a first-class compartment in the train, from which they 
 witnessed the reception accorded to their late leader. In response 
 to many inquiries Mr. Parnell said, " Wo will win — we will 
 win," and he shook hands with many of thoso who crowded 
 around him. 
 
 When Mr. Parnell entered his compartment the crowd gathered 
 and called for a speech. Mr. Parnell, who seemed to be in excel- 
 lent spirits, advanced to tho window of tho carriage, and, in ad- 
 dressing the gathering as " fellow-countrymen in England," said 
 he was overwhelmed with the honour they had done him in ap- 
 pearing in such numbers to wish him " (iod speed" in the fight 
 ho had undertaken. It was just 16 years ago that they first as- 
 sisted him in framing for his country a policy which he had 
 never given up, and which, with their help, would be successful. 
 Ho had never forgotten that help, and he asked them, exiles of 
 Erin, to continue the support they had previously given. They 
 would have no cause to regret that action or the fight upon which 
 he entered that day, and his hope was that they would achieve 
 the end which God had determined for them. These remarks 
 were frequently interrupted by loud cheers and approving shouts. 
 After tho speech a rush was made by those present to grasp Mr. 
 Parnell's hand, and tho crowd followed the carriago in which Mr. 
 Parnell stood as it moved out of the station, cheering as they ran 
 along tho platform. 
 
 Dec. 10. 
 
 Tho following leading article appeared in The Times on tho 
 morning after Mr. Parnell's departure for Ireland : — 
 
 " Tho brief but eventful Parliamentary Session that closed 
 yesterday will be long remembered for its intense dramatic in- 
 terest and its profound influence upon political relations. It has 
 disappointed every reasonable forecast of its character and every 
 ordinary calculation -of results. The day before Parliament met
 
 MR. PARNELL'S DEPARTURE FOR IRELAND. 193 
 
 there was nothing to indicate the approach of a storm which has 
 brought to the ground the elaborate and laboriously constructed 
 fabric of Opposition policy. There were, indeed, mutterings of 
 discontent among the Nonconformists on account of the revela- 
 tions made in the Divorce Court, but many Gladstonian writers 
 and speakers had insisted that these revelations had nothing to 
 do with political life ; the Nationalist party in Ireland and in the 
 House of Commons had gone solid for Mr. Parnell, and Mr. 
 Gladstone was as far as the Roman Catholic hierarchy from 
 giving any sign of disapproval. In a few hours the whole situa- 
 tion was changed. Mr. Gladstone, apparently convinced that 
 his noisy friends in the Press and on platforms had not rightly 
 gauged the feelings of the constituencies, addressed to Mr. Par- 
 nell a request that he would temporarily efface himself, on the 
 ground that otherwise Mr. Gladstone's retention of the leadership 
 would become almost a nullity. What that oracular threat may 
 have meant, we shall probably never know. Mr. Parnell did 
 not trouble himself to inquire, but speedily put it' beyond 
 all doubt that he had not the remotest intention to retire, 
 whether temporarily or otherwise, on any consideration whatever. 
 Obstinacy on one side was met with obstinacy on the other. 
 With trained docility, the ' items ' who had just been proving 
 that the Irish people alone have the right to say who shall lead 
 them, and that Mr. Parnell's private life has nothing to do with 
 his fitness for political command, instantly turned round and 
 demanded, in tones of outraged virtue, that their sacred move- 
 ment should forthwith be purged from the stain of adultery. The 
 priests and Bishops took courage to vindicate the moral law, upon 
 which, notwithstanding the pressure brought to bear by the 
 Vatican, they had permitted the Irish people to trample ; and 
 the Nationalists were divided into two hostile camps by a differ- 
 ence of view concerning the best means of breaking up the 
 Empire. From the purely Parliamentary point of view the imme- 
 diate result was the total collapse of preparations, ostentatiously 
 made and loudly trumpeted, for the obstruction of business. 
 With unprecedented rapidity and ease the Government worked 
 off their entire programme under cover of the furious battle raging 
 in Committee Room No. 15. It still wants a fortnight to Christmas, 
 yet members of Parliament are at liberty to go home and prepare 
 to enjoy the festive season. There is evidence, however, that no 
 
 N 
 
 Dec. 10.
 
 Dec. 10. 
 
 191 RUPTURE OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 undue haste was shown in taking advantage of the respite. 
 The Government were bound by promise not to push things 
 beyond the present stage, but had they been free to go on, it 
 is doubtful whether much more progress could have been 
 made. 
 
 Not a moment is lost by the two Home Rule factions in 
 prosecuting their quarrel upon the larger battlefield where it now 
 has to be fought. The Irish mail last night bore away from 
 Euston a precious freightage of political and personal virtue. In 
 one compartment were Mr. Parnell and his principal adherents, 
 in another were packed Mr. T. M. Healy and other shining 
 lights of the faction which, with a defective sense of humour, is 
 now eager to be known as ' the patriots.' The honours of the 
 start were undeniably with Mr. Parnell, who has evidently taken 
 from the highest authority lessons in deportment in railway 
 stations. His imitation of the accepted model of peripatetic 
 propriety was remarkably accurate. He ensconced himself in a 
 first-class compartment, after declining the too ostentatious 
 luxury of a special saloon. Upon his modest retirement burst 
 the sounds of popular enthusiasm, which were quickly ascer- 
 tained to proceed from a great concourse of Irishmen bent upon 
 doing him honour. There were cries for a speech, and then Mr. 
 Parnell " advanced to the window of the carriage " — how well we 
 know the phrase — and made his little oration after the approved 
 model. There was the proper touch of humility, the proper 
 thankfulness for this magnificent demonstration, the due declara- 
 tion that he could never forget the support extended to him at a 
 critical moment in a nation's history, and — last and subtlest stroke 
 of all — the inevitable hint of special acquaintance and harmony 
 with the decrees of the Almighty. The imitation was perfect, 
 and was done with a perfect gravity which leaves it doubtful 
 whether he intended an audacious parody, or whether a danger- 
 ous politician has acquired that </«« si-belief in his mission 
 which alone can make him :more dangerous still. While this 
 delectable scene was enacting at one part of the platform, the 
 poor " patriots" were hiding their mortification in a compart- 
 ment at another, It is a thousand pities that no sympathizing 
 band could .be found to give them what Mr. Parnell beautifully 
 calls a " God-speed." If Mr. Healy could only have " ad- 
 vanced to the window" as well, and unburdened his swelling
 
 MR. PARNELL'S DEPARTURE FOR IRELAND. 195 
 
 heart in a neat and appropriate speech after the best model, the 
 comedy of the situation would have been complete. 
 
 There is dramatic fitness in the opening of the Irish struggle 
 in Kilkenny, which enriches the language with a proverbial 
 description of internecine conflict. Sir John Pope Hennessy 
 has found it difficult to make up his mind, but has finally de- 
 cided that as an Irish Catholic he cannot go against his Bishops. 
 What a pity it is that Bishops who command such implicit 
 obedience should have refused to put down outrage and fraud, 
 and should have been so slow to pronounce even against adultery ! 
 It remains to be seen whether this obedient son of the Church 
 will stand in the anti-Parnellite interest, but if he does there 
 can be no doubt at all that the fight will be a lively one. Mean- 
 time Mr. Parnell will hasten to expound the situation as he 
 views it to a meeting in Dublin, to which admission is to be by 
 ticket. There may be some occult reason for an arrangement 
 which on the face of it seems an indication of weakness. 
 The expected manifesto from the other party is held back, 
 possibly in order that it may include a reply to Mr. 
 ParnelPs Dublin speech. Evidently there is nothing useful 
 to be done just now in America, for members of both parties 
 are preparing to return to Ireland, Mr. Harrington in the 
 interest of Mr. Parnell, and Mr. William O'Brien with in- 
 tentions which at present seem a little obscure. His telegram 
 to Mr. Parnell betrayed a degree of perturbation and indecision 
 which might have won a less frigid reply ; and his second 
 message, to correct some supposed misunderstanding of the first, 
 has the air of considerable anxiety for the interview which 
 Mr. Parnell coldly stated his willingness to grant. Judges of 
 Irish sentiment think that Mr. O'Brien is the only man who has 
 much chance of successfully rousing the country against 
 Mr. Parnell, and in that case any weakness on his part would go 
 far to spoil a very pretty fight. It is probable that we have not 
 yet seen the last of the revelations with which Mr. Gladstone and 
 his followers have been regaled. It may be expected that the 
 general struggle in Ireland will be productive of much plain 
 speaking all round. Enough, however, is already known of the 
 characters of both factions to fill their English allies with 
 unspeakable disgust, and to open their eyes to the fact they have 
 so long ignored, that the representation of the elements in Ireland 
 
 Dec. 10.
 
 196 
 
 RUPTURE OF THE IRISH PARTY. 
 
 Dec. 10. 
 
 which alone can make a nation does not lie with any section of 
 tho rarnellite party. Partisan prejudice dies hard, but the 
 application of the Rev. Newman Hall for membership of the 
 Nonconformist Unionist Association may perhaps be taken 
 as a sign of a salutary revulsion of feeling in Nonconformist 
 circles." 
 
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