^FULL REPORT 
 
 OF THE 
 
 SPEECH 
 
 OF THE 
 
 Rt. Hon. HENRY G RAT TAN, 
 
 I N THE 
 
 HOUSE OF C O M M O N S . 
 OF IRELAND, 
 
 €>:< T H U R S D A Y t h e 14th or F ETB R U A R Y, i -5?, 
 
 IX THE 
 
 DEBATE ON 1' I T H E S. 
 
 DUBLIN': 
 
 Printed by P. BvR .ST, No. 108, Grafron Street ; 
 
 A N I) 
 
 Rc-piinted by J. DHj;Rf<T, Picciidilly, I.on'dov.
 
 LIBRARY 
 
 UNnrKRSITY OF CALIFORNIA 
 SANTA BARBARA 
 
 FULL REPORT 
 
 OF THE 
 
 SPEECH 
 
 OF THE 
 
 JRt. Hon. HENRY GRATTAN. 
 
 M 
 
 R. Grattan faid it was not his intention 
 to furprife the Houfe at the piefent, by intro- 
 ducing fo important a fubjedt as that of tithes ; 
 he would prefer fubmitting the grievances com- 
 plained of by the peafantry, to a Committee, 
 who would examine if they really cxifted or not. 
 That fuch mode of proceeding would meet with 
 the approbation of the Houfe he had no doubt ; 
 as the Committee, by confidering the magical 
 error in its true form, would fee the necciTity of 
 a commutation of tithes ; a commutation that 
 was he to propofe, in the firfl inflance, without 
 
 B can-
 
 C 4 ] 
 
 convincing the Houfe that the peafantry were 
 really diilrcfled, might bring on an oppofition 
 that he would wIOn, if pofllble, to fee avoided on 
 the prefent momentous fubjedl. It is, continued 
 he, a pofition in politics as well as phyfics, that 
 for the purpofe of removing the complaint it is 
 neceffary for the phyfician to know the nature of 
 the diforder. For this purpofe there were many 
 refpeclable witneffes ready to attend to prove 
 their allegations, which he was convinced would 
 fhew the neceffity of a reformation being made 
 in this mode of provifion for the clergy. He 
 faid he declined at prefent feparating the quef- 
 tion j he underflood that tithes of a particular 
 nature, unfanc'^ioned by law, were levied on the 
 poor in the fouthern parts of the country ; he 
 lamented their inability to pay them, and re- 
 proached, in terms of ardent indignation, that 
 fpirit of peculation and rapine that brought down 
 mifcry and wretchednefs on fo ufeful a body of 
 men. Tithe of turt had been levied by the 
 clergy, and paid by the poor ; a hearth-money 
 tax of tv/o iliillings a hearth, in lieu of the tithe 
 of turf, which was unknown to the laws, had 
 been alfo levied ; and where oppofition was of- 
 fared to thefe illegal demands, litigation enfued, 
 and often the paifor, the tithe prodlor, and tithe 
 farmer, with every mifchief in their train, united 
 to bring on the lowed and moft ufefui of the con> 
 
 muiiityj
 
 C 5 ] 
 
 munity, accumulated niin. Thofe charges, he 
 %vas well convinced, could be fufficiently eila- 
 blifhed> with niimberlefs others equally grie- 
 vous, and which he would referve for another 
 rfiore favourable opportunity — For which pur- 
 pofe he moved, 
 
 *' That a Committee he appai'/ited to inquire if then 
 
 *' is any juji caufe of difcontent in the proinnce of 
 
 *' Aii'.njier, and alfo to inquire if the late exccffei 
 
 " committed in the province of MunJIer, and coun- 
 
 *' ties of Kilkenny and Carlow, zvere on account of 
 
 *^ tithes J or on account of the colleBion of them y and 
 
 * ' alfo what redrefsfJjould be afforded thetn ; and to 
 
 ** report their opinion thereon,''^ 
 
 In this Committee, faid he, I (liall ftate and 
 bring; evidence of the grricvances under which the 
 wretched people labour. In this Committee I 
 fliall alfo fubmit what occurs to me as the proper 
 mode of remedy. I do not wifli in the firft in- 
 ftance to uOier thefc matters to the Houfc, be- 
 caufe, as I laid before, I am unwilling to rifk 
 theintereft of the clergy, the caufe of the poor, 
 and the happinefs of the country, upon my opi- 
 nion. Let me then bcfcech an inquiry, from 
 which much good and no mikhicf whatever can 
 pofllbly refult. 
 
 B 2 With
 
 [ 6 3 
 
 With refped to the payment of the clergy, 
 ■whofe incomes I would rather augment than di- 
 Uiinifli, three plans have occurred to me : 
 
 The firfl is, 
 
 ** To pay the clergy the full amount of what, 
 *'^ on a fair average, they have received for feve- 
 " ral years prior to the diflurbances complained 
 ** of, which amount fliould be raifed by applot- 
 *' ment in the manner of other country charges.'* 
 
 The fecond is, 
 
 ** To inftitute a general modus in lieu of 
 »« tithe." 
 
 The third is, 
 
 **' A combination of modus of commutation, 
 *' by a general furvey of every county ; a certain- 
 '^ fum to be allowed for every acre under tillage, 
 ** and the whole county at large to be the fecu- 
 ** rity of the clergyman." 
 
 This I affert to be not only praAicable, but 
 eafy of accomplifliing, for fimilar furveys are 
 every year made m almoft every county in Ire- 
 land. Gentlemen mufh obferve that there is a 
 vail difference between a fair inquiry, which is 
 the fole fubjeft of my motion, and a pofitive 
 agreement, which may bind down Parliament to 
 
 a fpe-
 
 C 7 ] 
 
 a rpecific plan. I do not willi them to be pledged 
 to any fyflem, but firft to examine whether any 
 fyftem at all is neceffary, and then to determine 
 upon the nature of it themfelves. But if die bu- 
 fmefs ihall be futfered to go into a Committee, 
 1 flatter myfelf fuch proofs will be adduced, fuch 
 fubftantial allegations attefted upon oath at the 
 bar of the Houfe, as will convince them that 
 the voice of complaint has not been raifed with- 
 out juil, ajid even more than fufncient caufc. 
 And theie proofs (hall not come from White- 
 Boy^s, or from perfons fuppofed favourable to 
 their proceedings, but from men of irreproach- 
 able characters ; men who have been goaded to 
 outrage by tithe-prodors, but who have pa- 
 tiently fubmitted to reiterated impofition, and 
 become the mediators of peace, and the inftru- 
 ments of tranquillity. Thofc evidences are ready 
 to be produced at the bar of your Houfe; and 
 when you go into Committee, gentlemen will 
 have an opportunity of aflenting to, ordifapprov- 
 ing, the propofed plans of reformation. 
 
 The Attorney General faid, I differ alto- 
 gether with the Right Honourable Gentleman as 
 to the mode of taking up the fubject. I cannot 
 think it right, that, with the concurrence ot diis 
 Houfe, the idea of redrefs fhould be let afloat ; 
 thus to heat the imaginations of the people, with- 
 out
 
 C 8 ] 
 
 out any pofitive remedy in view to allay them. I 
 will not therefore content to the Committee of 
 Inquiry propofed by him, for I am f\ire that a 
 more effectual means to increafe the difturbances 
 that exift, and to difturb the public tranquillity, 
 could not be taken. My Right Hon. Friend 
 has admitted it to be a matter of fuch difficulty, 
 as to call for the greatefh efforts of the wifeft heads 
 to determine it with prudence, and yet he wants 
 the Houfe to enter inftantly into a Committee, 
 in order to afcertain whether any juft caufe of dif- 
 content exifts in the province of Munfterj or in 
 the counties of Kildare or Carlow, on account of 
 tithe, or the collection of tithe; and if any, to 
 report the fame, with their opinion thereon. If 
 his abihties, confeffedly fo great, have not been 
 able to devife any plan which he can vouch for, 
 and pofirively recommend, I think it would be 
 madnefs to agitate the fubject at ^11. But if he is 
 in poffeffion of any fyftem, in God*s name, let 
 Iiim propofe it. He well knows that the Houfe 
 will liften with partiality to any propofal coming 
 from him. If it ihall appear to be fuch as I can 
 approve, 1 ilia'l certainly fupport it; if not, I 
 mull only vote againft it. 
 
 '&" 
 
 Lord Kings BOROUGH rofe to fecond Mr. Grat- 
 tan's motion. I cannot, {aid his Lordfhip, for- 
 hc3X mcntipning the oppreOions and diftreffes 
 
 under
 
 C 9 T 
 
 under v/hich the poor in the lo\ith of Ireland 
 labour. I re fide in that part of the kingdom, 
 and therefore cannot be ignorant of them. The 
 people who cultivate the poor lands in the 
 county of Cork are utterly unable to pay tithe of 
 any kind, and yet tithe of every kind is molt 
 rigoroLifly demanded from them. Many de- 
 mands made by the clergy are illegal. I have 
 myfelf been cited to an ecclefiailical court 
 for payment of an illegal demand, and which, 
 illegal and exorbitant as it was, I Ihould have 
 been obhged to comply with, without ever hav- 
 ing joined iliue, were T a poor man. If a 
 Committee is appointed, gentlemen will have 
 an opportunity of entering into the merits of 
 the bufmefs. 
 
 Mr. Browne, (of the College) faid he felt 
 much difficulty in oppofmg the Right Honourable 
 Gentleman, whofe romantic fuceefs and fplendid 
 abilities had long infured his triumph. He could 
 not however at prefent fubmit to his motion, it 
 being in his mind replete with an inconfillency 
 that did not ufuaily mark his meafures. The 
 honourable member, continued he, has eflablilh- 
 ed our conftinitional rights on a folid foundation, 
 but would he now (hake it by fufilriiig an inno- 
 vation on our ecclefiaftical fyftcm ? It would, 
 faid he, be a tafs. replete v/ith dilficulry and 
 
 danger
 
 [ lO ] 
 
 danger to attempt altering fo ancient a {yllem; 
 and the abfiirdity of llich a meafure being adopt- 
 ed, having no colour of reafon why it fliould, 
 ^v,•Is fo evident, that any remark on it would ap- 
 pear fuperfiuous to die Houfe. Mr. Browne 
 next adverted to the compenfation bill which 
 had been introduced. This, he trufted, would 
 cffcftually anfwer every purpofe to reftore order 
 and tranquillity in the fouth. He afked the Right 
 Honourable Gentleman, who authoriled him to 
 become the arbiter between the clergy and their 
 tlock ? Who had appointed him to regulate their 
 property ? I am warranted, continued he, in de- 
 claring the cldrgy have made no fuch requeft ; 
 and on the part of the people 1 can fafely fay the 
 fame, as no petitions appear to give weight to his 
 afiertions. 
 
 Here Mr. Browne took an opportunity of re* 
 currino- to the late contefted eledion in the county 
 of Cork. The conflid between the ruUng pow- 
 ers in that county incited a fpirit of oppofition in 
 the lower order of people ; diis fpirit was en- 
 courag;ed, becaufe it met no refiftance from their 
 fuperiors, and it therefore grew into an oppofition 
 againft the clergy, that is neither warranted by 
 law or juftice. On the part of the clergy he 
 could with truth fay, that they were a body of 
 men by no means hoftik to humanity, as has 
 
 been
 
 been falfely allcdged ; tlieir meeknefs would not 
 permit them, nor their benevolence fuffer them, 
 to crufh thole mifguided people who had refin- 
 ed the laws, and deprived them of their pro- 
 perty. That the clergy had Laboured under 
 many oppreflions, was a fa6t univerfally known, 
 yet, he would take upon him to fay, they wifh* 
 ed for no alteration in a fyflem founded on the 
 pure bafis of religion ; its fimplicity endeared it 
 to them, and their reverence for the ancient 
 conftitution made them prefer it to any new re- 
 gulation, rather wifhing to fuffer thofe ills they 
 have, than fly to others that they know not of. 
 He concluded by obferving that in refpe(5l to the 
 complaint of the Right Honourable Gentleman, 
 of a tithe of turf being levied, he was affured if 
 any fuch tithe had been taken by the clergy, it 
 was in lieu of fomething withheld from the paf- 
 tor ; and that the laity were no fufferers by fuch 
 regulation. He therefore could not, confif- 
 tcntly with his principles, give his approbation 
 to the motion made by the Right Honourable 
 Member. 
 
 Mr. G RATTAN. — Mr. Speaker, I am called 
 on by an Honourable Member to fupport what 
 I have alledged refpedling the opprcfTions cx'- 
 pericnced by the fouthern pcafantry. Though 
 
 C well
 
 C 12 ] 
 
 well I am convinced the matter would come with 
 much more propriety before a Committee, yet, 
 as it is not likely I will have an opportunity of 
 introducing it before the Houfe in that fhape, 
 I muft now requeft your indulgence, while I 
 juftify myfelf, and vindicate my aflertions. 
 
 . I had indeed flattered myfelf I would not have 
 occafion to trouble the Houfe on the fubjed of 
 tithes, and therefore I referved myfelf to meet 
 the queftion in Committee. 
 
 If I can judge from appearances, there feems 
 to be a determined oppofition to this meafure. 
 My predicament muft of courfe be a fmgular 
 one, as I am cenfured by one Honourable Gen- 
 tleman for 7iot producing a plan, and by an- 
 other for producing one which has been empha- 
 tically declared to threaten injury to the ftate. 
 Thus, \)y the fame fpecies of fophiftry, I am 
 charged with being an arbiter between the clergy 
 and their flock without any authority, and of 
 courfe a fomenter of commotion, and a pro- 
 moter of difturbance. If it is criminal to wifli to 
 heal the breach fubfifting between the clergy and 
 the laity ; if it is fomenting diflurbance to wifli 
 to conciliate all parties, then I have materially 
 erred ; it tx) deny me the opportunity of doing 
 
 this
 
 C 13 3 
 
 tliis is meritorious, the people of Ireland 
 muft be foon convinced to whom they are 
 obliged. 
 
 Are not the commotions that difturbed the 
 peace of the country too notorious to be denied ? 
 Is it not the ufuage of the parliaments of both 
 kingdoms, in fimilar cafes, to inveftigate the 
 caufe, and ftrike at the root of the evil ; and not, 
 by adopting temporary expedients to remove the 
 effe(5ls, fuffer the primary error to exift ? If this 
 has been the cafe, then, Sir, I tread on firm, on 
 conftitutional grounds, and will not helitate to 
 fay, taat an inquiry ought to be made, and if it, 
 ihould appear that the fubjed is opprefled, re- 
 drefs fhould follow. If you deny this, you deny 
 the exiftence of the conftitution. 
 
 Sir, there are men ready to appear at your 
 bar, refpectable men, who are enabled and wil- 
 ling to prove on their oaths, that the commo 
 nalty in the fouthern counties are monflroufly 
 aggrieved. Call thefe men to your bar, hu- 
 manity demands it, and their opprcfTions require 
 it ; and if they cannot clearly fupport their alle- 
 gations, it will be to me a fubje<5t of plcafurc, 
 and to the Houfe a matter of triumph. If it ap- 
 pears to me that no grievance docs cxiil, then I 
 
 C 2 will
 
 f H ] 
 
 will unite In fupporting a fyftem now apparently 
 obnoxious, 
 
 I applaud the modeH: worth of my honourable 
 
 friend [Mr. Brown] whofe integrity of principles, 
 
 and benevolence of heart, I have long admired j 
 
 and though I widely differ with him on the pre- 
 
 fent queftion, our coincidence of fentiments on 
 
 others, is a reflexion that muft ever afford me 
 
 pleafure. It is. Sir, painful to me to reflect 
 
 that fo much oppreffion exifls, that this op- 
 
 prelfion falls chiefly on that mofl \ifeful body, 
 
 pur hufbandmen. To convince the Houfe that 
 
 oppreffion and exaction really cxift, I requeft 
 
 the attention of the Houfe while I read a few 
 
 extrafts from letters and papers now in my hand, 
 
 the fubftance of which can be verified on oa^ji. 
 
 The charges contained in thefe papers, Sir, are 
 
 of fuch a heinous nature, and exhibit fuch a 
 
 fcene of iniquity and melancholy impofition 
 
 pra^ftifed on the fouthern peafantry, as muft 
 
 raife indignation in the breafl of every man that 
 
 hears them. 
 
 It has been afferted on the part of the clergy, 
 or rather of their pro6tors, that though their 
 charges fometimes carried the feature of extor- 
 tion, ftiU the full tenth was feldom taken from 
 
 the
 
 [ >5 ] 
 
 tke parlfhioner; and they even dared the op- 
 preffed to Hiew one inftaiice where any part of 
 the laity's property had been illegally tithed. 
 The laft affertion I am warranted to fay is a 
 glaring violation of tmth, for I can (hew, to 
 the full fatisfadiion of this Houfe, that turf has 
 been tithed — illegally tithed. 
 
 I have alfo the bell authority for aflerting that 
 where men have been refradoiy, and would not 
 fiibmit to what they knew was a grofs impofition, 
 they have been dragged before an ecclefiaflical 
 court ; that the decifion of thefe difgraceful 
 courts made the defendants enter into fecurity for 
 the illegal payment of tithe of turf, and not be- 
 ing able to accomplidi that payment, wretches 
 who had fcarcely a rag to protect them from the 
 inclemency of the elements, were call into a 
 loathfome prifon — martyrs to extortion, and 
 vilftims to violated juftice. — Sir, it is obvious 
 and degrading to the conlHtution, to fee ex- 
 tortion aflume the power of legiflation, and 
 comm\iting its own exadlion by laying a tax of 
 two fliiUings on each health of poor creatures, 
 many of whom had not a turf to burn, or a 
 coal to kindle. Is not fuch rapacity contrary to 
 juflice, and repugnant to law ? for the law par- 
 ticularly exempts creatures of poor condition 
 from a hearth tax ; which, under the name of 
 
 fmokc-
 
 [ i6 ] 
 
 fmokc-money, is feized on by the rigorous and 
 rclentlefs tithe fador. 
 
 I \\<ill now afk the Hoiife, is it prepared to 
 deny thefe charges, or is it prepared to juftify 
 them ? It cannot — it will not — I have the opi- 
 nion of an upright and learned lawyer, whofe 
 talents and virtues are an ornament ic human 
 nature, and who has been lattiy tranfiated to the 
 feat of juftice, to fay that the parfon, the prodlor, 
 or tithe farmer, who prefumes to exad a tithe 
 of turf, or the tax of fmoke-money, and the 
 ecclefiaftical judge who acquiefces with them, all 
 ad contrary to law, and are deferving of, and 
 liable to, exemplary punifliment. [^A ay of hear, 
 hear.'] A tithe of fiirze has alfo been claimed and 
 obtained, though they were not cut for fale, but 
 fpent or confumed on the premifes ; nay, the mofl 
 trifling article of the wretched parilliioner falls a 
 facritice to the impious grafp of avarice and rapa- 
 city. I now afK gentlemen, is it pofhble for ex- 
 aclion to invent a more caiel and fevere tax than 
 thefe I fubmit for confideration ? Than the firil 
 charge nothing can be more exorbitant, except 
 the charge of the proclor, which amounts to 
 the enormous l\im of two ihillings in the pound, 
 for coileding his own exadion, a tax that may 
 as jultiy be levied for the fupport of the clergy- 
 man's domelYics. — After this fair and pl?in ftate- 
 
 ment
 
 [ '7 ] 
 
 ment of facts, can it be faid that there has been 
 neither opprelTion or extortion in Miinfter ? No 
 furely, fince every thing paid tithe in that pro- 
 vince, that paid tithe any where elfe, and pota- 
 toes, flax, and turf were alfo tithed there, that 
 were tithed no where elfe. Thus much for the 
 province of Munfter, with the additional charge 
 of proftorage. 
 
 Having now clearly fliewn, Sir, that the 
 fouthern counties have been particularly ag- 
 grieved, I (hall proceed to ftate the tithable 
 prices charged for the diiferent produdions of 
 the earth, particularly in thofe parilhes recently 
 difturbed ; which are according to the follow- 
 ing ftatement : 
 
 IVheat from 125. to 20s. per acre* 
 
 Potatoes from 8j. to 195. do. 
 
 Barley from gs. to 135. iio. 
 
 Oats from 6s. to 10s, do, 
 
 Meadozu from 4^. to 'js, do. 
 
 Flax from lis. to ic,s, do* 
 
 Befides, 
 
 For a little garden 19 J. 
 
 In the county of Cork, the ratagcs are : 
 
 Potatoes i6j-. per acre. 
 
 Wheat 16 J. do. 
 
 Bark'}
 
 [ >« ] 
 
 Barley 
 
 95. 9^. d(i. 
 
 Oats 
 
 8i. do. 
 
 Mcadozvhg 
 
 6 s. do. 
 
 Exclufive of this general ftatement, Sir, I 
 fliall produce other inftances of uncommon ex- 
 tortion, where wheat, potatoes, flax, &:c. are 
 charged by the (lone ; rape alfo, which the 
 legiflature thought it wifdom to cultivate, has 
 not efcaped the eye of the proiflor, but has 
 been taxed enormoufly. 
 
 In Ulfler, Sir, the farmer pays but fixpence 
 for his flax, be the quantity great or fmall. 
 Through the whole nation the rate of tirhing is, 
 on an average, but one third of what is charged 
 in Munfter ; the confequence of which has been, 
 that while livings in other parts of the kingdom 
 have improved in honeft gradation as the coun- 
 try improved in wealth, in Muniler they have 
 exceeded all bounds. 
 
 Is not this. Sir, an encroachment, and fuch 
 a one as fully accounts for tli-e difcontent of the 
 people ? for it is not merely that a living has 
 grown from fixty pounds to three hundred 
 pounds, but the proctor and tithe-farmer's 
 gains, or perhaps the gains of two or three in- 
 termediate relays of tithe prodors and tithe- 
 farmers.
 
 C '9 ] 
 
 farmers, extracted from the peafant, full twice 
 as much as went into the pocket of the parfon. 
 
 In corroboration of further monftrous extor- 
 tion, I 111 all read the depolition of a refpefta- 
 ble farmer. 
 
 No. I. flates tliathe was charged 165. an acre 
 tithe for oats. 
 
 No. IV. ftates that he was obliged to pay 24s. 
 for two Englifh acres of wheat^ and for bull po- 
 tatoes, i]s. an acre. 
 
 No. VI. flates that he was charged 40;. an 
 acre for potatoes, which he refufed to pay ; and 
 having been caft in a fuit he commenced in con- 
 fequence of this exaction, a decree was obtained 
 againft him, which amounted to fixteen pounds 
 <ofts ! 
 
 No. XVI. fhcws that deponent paid 15J. an 
 acre for wheat. 
 
 And No. XVIII. afl'crts that he paid fourteen 
 pounds to the clergyman, having been charged at 
 the rate of one pound two fliillings per acre tithe 
 for potatoes. Thcfe fadls. Sir, arc lupportcd 
 by the oath of a creditable geijtlcman, and 
 
 D there
 
 [ 20 ] 
 
 there can be lio doubt of their authenticity ; 
 fuch, I lament to fay, are the exadtions praftifed 
 on the Iririi peafantry — fuch are the crimes that 
 bear the mild name of oppreffion — fuch are the 
 iniquitous extortions that call loudly and juftly 
 for reformation. 
 
 Now I afk, will gentlemen admit thefe ratagcs 
 to be founded in t:ii5l, and fay that no fubftan- 
 tial caufe of grievance cxifls ? I requeft they will 
 not pafs my queftion in fiience. \^A paufe.'] If 
 they do, I fliall conceive that it is a queftion 
 which they cannot, or arc afraid to anfwer. 
 
 Sir, the litigation excited by this degrading 
 mode of provifion for the clergy, is an evil that 
 fhakes the foundation of induftry, that draws 
 down on the miferable peafant accumulated ruin, 
 that ftems the torrent of juftice, and is the fource 
 of oppreffion. I am concerned to find that 
 tithes of turf, potatoes, and fmoke-money, are 
 with impunity levied contrary to law. The 
 peafant who refifts this cruel violation of juf- 
 tice, and flies for prote(flion to a petty court, 
 foon, to his defbuftion, difcovers that which 
 fhould have been his afylum receives him as a 
 devoted viiflim ; that by the collulion of the 
 court, or the imbecility of the judge, he falls 
 » facrifice to his tanerity, and a decree is ob- 
 tained
 
 C " 3 
 
 tained which involves him and his flimily m 
 eternal ruin. 
 
 This pi(5lure of calamity, Sir, may appear 
 over-charged ; for the honour of human nature 
 I wifli it was ; but from the prodor's bills and 
 receipts, which I hold in my hand, I am con- 
 vinced of the exiftence of unexampled oppref- 
 fion ; and as to the iniquity and coUufion of 
 eccleliaftical courts, it is fo flagrant a matter, 
 and fo univerfally known and admitted, that 
 to dwell on the fubje6l any longer for the p\ir- 
 pofe of impredmg the idea, would be a wafte 
 of words, and an infult offered to the honour- 
 able members that furround me. 
 
 I fhall now advert. Sir, to what has been ad- 
 vanced, that the court would afford redrefs to 
 the complainants, and relieve them from fuch 
 heavy oppreflions. 
 
 But, Sir, it is well known that the Vicars 
 Court is like a PolilTi Diet, diRinguilhed for no- 
 thing but injuftice, ignorance and party ; the 
 Judge is always one of the body, or elfe his 
 appointment proceeds from it ; and though in 
 lome cafes the flagrant juftice of the individual 
 might controul the partial umpire, yet the 
 foniliuitiun of the court is fuch, that none 
 
 D z but
 
 [ " ] 
 
 but a partial judge has ever been known to prc- 
 fide there. 
 
 That the ecclefiaftical court is a mofl expen- 
 five and grievous judicature, 1 prefume no man 
 of candour will deny. It is well known to the 
 Houfe that the cofts and expences of a fuit in the 
 Vicars Court are feldom lefs than one pound fix 
 {hillings and eight-pence, though the fum liti- 
 gated may not be more than five fliillings. In 
 addition to this grievance, the incompetency of 
 a witnefs is of no avail to fet afide his evidence ; 
 the moft contemptible and fufpicious wretch is 
 embraced with a holy zeal, and on the merits of 
 his teflimony this upright court, without hefita- 
 tion, decrees : — nay, though he were the proc- 
 tor, or fervant of the party, and his bias and 
 corruption were evident, ftill his evidence is ad- 
 miflible ; notwithftanding he viewed the crop in 
 the infancy of vegetation, or the ground at the 
 time was red, vvhen it was impoffible, with any 
 degree of certainty, to anticipate its value, or to 
 afcertain its produce. And it is well known, 
 Sir, that he frequently gueffes at the quantum 
 of land, produce, and value, without lurvey, 
 weight, or meafure. 
 
 The uncharitable and exccffive ratages in the 
 foath, S'li^ mull roufe the indignation of the 
 
 Houfe*
 
 [ ^3 ] 
 
 Houle. Ill the year 1786,! can prove from in- 
 difputable evidence, the tithes of many farms 
 amounted to the rack rent of the landholder ; 
 and I am ailiired from reputable authority, that 
 it is a praftice to charge the innocent and unfuf- 
 pe<5ting hufbandman for more acres than he real- 
 ly poffeffes ; this i? a charge incontrovertible, as 
 I have a furvey, fworn to, that not only proves 
 this, and the infamous exadlion of the proftor, 
 but plainly fliews that, in many inftances, not 
 only the tenth, but the fourth is extorted from 
 the unprotected peafimt. 
 
 Surely, Sir, it will not be afked after what I 
 have Hated, is there not a remedy for fuch egre- 
 gious impofition ? That queftion has been al- 
 ready anfwered by what I advanced refpefting 
 the impotency of inferior courts, where the ex- 
 pence attending the failure of the parilhioner's 
 fuit muft be attended by certain deftrudion.--- 
 This, Sir, caufes a fear that operates to the ad- 
 vantage of the tJlhe-prodor, canter, &c. and 
 prevents the objcft of their plunder from feek- 
 ing redrefs in a iummary way. 1 lament, Sir, 
 that the clergy are fo very tenacious, that they 
 will not fuffer or give their approbation to any 
 alteration in a fyflem that has time immemorial 
 given rife to perfecutionsand profecuiions in this 
 kingdom. The mild fj^irit of the Gofpcl does 
 
 not
 
 [ 24 3 
 
 not fay, that opprcflion is of divine right — that 
 the elemental tithe of fire Hiall roall the tithe- 
 pig of the paifon, or that it is juft to receive 
 tithe of a wretched cottier, which amounts al* 
 moll to the rack rent he pays for his farm. 
 
 Sir, the progrefs of a fuit ni the hip ecclefiajll' 
 cal courts, is attended with double the expence of 
 a fuit carried on in the ecclefiaftical courts of 
 England, and is at beft a penal remnant of bar- 
 barity, that requires immediate annihilation. 
 
 I fhallnow, Sir, recur to the enormities prac- 
 tifed in the levying of tithes, and for the purpofe 
 of convincing the Houfe of the truth of my alle- 
 gations, I (hall, with permifiion of the Houfe, 
 read an extracl from a letter written to me by a 
 gentleman in Calhel, for whofe veracity I can 
 vouch, 
 
 l^Rcad a letter which took a vlezv of the progrefs of 
 tithing from the year 1774 to 1783; zvhich Mr. 
 Grattan, after furniping the Houfe with, proceeded in 
 the fvlhzving manner to comment on.~j 
 
 Sir, it appears that in the year 1783, a year 
 of famine, for two hundred and fixty-five barrels 
 of wheat one pound an acre has been charged, 
 according to the average produce of preceding 
 
 years^
 
 C H 1 
 
 years, uncommonly produAive. The Vicars 
 Court in the diocefe of Calhel, appears from in- 
 conteftible evidence, to be a moft iniquitous one. 
 [^Copies of decrees taken from the rule book of this court ^ 
 Mr. Grattan now read.'] 
 
 Thus, Sir, it plainly appears that the court cal- 
 culated the number of barrels, which the acre of 
 potatoes, wheat, or oats might produce, either 
 on the fuperficial and partial view of the farm, or 
 the moft extraordinary or partial eftimate of their 
 prodors, valuators and dependants. 
 
 I condemn exceedingly, the uncertainty of 
 fuch grounds for the decilion of property ; the 
 minute divifion in barrels and ftones, is an inge- 
 nious but exceptionable device to accumulate 
 exadtion on the poor. This mode of proceeding 
 is like an apothecary or taylor's bill — crowded 
 with little dirty items to fwell an exorbitant ac- 
 count — \_A laugh.'] 
 
 Such abominable extortion, I am forry to ob- 
 ferve, is peculiar to this country, and extremely 
 injurious to its commercial interefts ; a tax oij 
 grain difhpates the fpirit of induftry, by driving 
 the peafant from the plough to lefs valuable pur- 
 faits ; a bold and robuft peafantry is the Ilrength 
 of the empire, and the fmews of commerce; 
 
 they
 
 [16] 
 
 tliey Hioiild be cheriihed by the legillature with 
 a parental affedlion ; I therefore call upon Go- 
 vernment to alleviate their wrongs, which it will 
 completely do, by regulating that fyftem which 
 is no lefs a degradation to the clerical charader, 
 than it is repugnant to the precepts of Chrifti- 
 anity. 
 
 Sir, from the decrees I have read, it is obvious, 
 that the parfon and prodors claim and receive 
 market prices for tithes ; whereas in juftice, in 
 equity, and in law, field prices can only be de- 
 manded ; to infift on market price is a monftrous 
 exaction, it is claiming a tithe of labour, as well 
 as of property, as no allowances are made for 
 digging and drawing, nor no recompenfe given 
 for the trouble or labour of the pcafant. 
 
 From the decrees I have read. Sir, it appears 
 that in the year 1774, which was a year of fear- 
 city, that for 
 
 ' 350 barrels of beer, 40 barrels had been ex- 
 acted for tithe. 
 
 130 barrels of oats were charged proportior;-- 
 ably. 
 
 4256 flones of potatoes were charged 42^ 
 ftones for tithe. 
 
 Hay
 
 [ ^7 ] 
 
 Hay had been charged i os. a ton. 
 
 47 acres of wheat charged i/. 2S. gJ, an acre ; 
 and meadow was charged 125. an acre. 
 
 Thus it is plainly proved, by thefe decrees, 
 that the ratages are exorbitant ; but even thefe 
 extortions will appear trivial, when compared to 
 the rapacioufnefs of 1783, which was a year of 
 famine ! During this year potatoes had been rated, 
 according to the decree, one guinea an acre — an 
 equitable famine price !— flax above one guinea 
 an acre, another equitable famine price ! — hay 
 1 05. a ton, a very equitable famine price ! — to 
 which is tacked i/. 6s. Sd. cod — all, all equitable 
 famine ratages ! 
 
 Will any honourable member controvert what 
 I have alledged; there is no man can, I am con- 
 vinced : lorry then am I to find, that the pover- 
 ty and accumulated wrongs of the poor of this 
 country are only equal to the rapine and pccu- 
 lation of their mercilefs plunderers. 
 
 From this ftatcment, nothing Is more obvious 
 than that the clergy and their proclors had fct 
 forth a plenty produce, and thereto annexed a 
 famine price, availing themlclvcs of famine, 
 Vhich was unchriRian and uncharitable, and 
 making plenty itfcif thefcourge of die farmer. 
 
 E That
 
 [ ^8 ] 
 
 That this had been done appeared evident 
 from the decrees in cafes of poor people, who, to 
 a good Chriftian, fliould have been objects of 
 fuccour in a year of fcarcity, and not the devoted 
 obje(5ts of extortion and exadion. 
 
 Thefe decrees, and the caufe that excites 
 them, are extremely prejvidicial to the poor, and 
 deftruclive to hufbandry. Surely, it is very 
 impolitic to load with a tithable tax the rudi- 
 ments of our manufactures. The regulation of 
 tithing fliould ever keep in confideration the in- 
 tereft of the manufacturer ; I am alTured, from 
 the befl authority, that 145. an acre have been 
 paid for an acre of flax, and 16/. have been 
 exacted as tithe for four acres of rape ; the firfh 
 elements of our manufadures fhould be tithe-free, 
 and though flax is our fl:aple, yet it pays a greater 
 tithe in tliis kingdom than in Great Britain, as 
 there the tithe of flax and hemp does not exceed 
 55. the acre. 
 
 Sir, in the north, and the province of Con- 
 naught, tithe of turf and potatoes are unknown; 
 to fmoke-money the peafant is equally a itrangcr ; 
 ^Yhich demonftrates, that the exactions practifed 
 on the fouthern poor, are much more enormous 
 than thofe experienced by the northern hulband- 
 men. 
 
 In
 
 [ 29 ] 
 
 In Kildare the ratage of 
 
 IVheat is, per acre, 6.f. 
 Meadow ing, do. 35. 6d. 
 
 In the county of Dublin the ratage is about, 
 for 
 
 lVI:'eat, per acre, 6s. 
 
 Oats, Barky, Aleadozi'ing, md all other arti- 
 cles JubjeB to tithes, are in the fame propor- 
 tion. 
 
 In the King's County the ratages upon 
 
 If'hcat, Barley, and all other tithable articles, are 
 equally rcafonable. 
 
 In Connaught the ratage is, for 
 
 H'ljeat, per acre, about 6s» 
 Potatoes, 'nothing. 
 
 And upon the whole there is no demand what- 
 ever made of prodoragc-fces for trouble in the 
 colledion of tithe. 
 
 In the county of Antrim no tithe is demanded 
 for potatoes ; all the other tithe-rates are equally 
 rcafonable with thofe I have before dated. 
 
 In many other counties which I could men- 
 tion, but the detail of which would be railier 
 
 K z tedious,
 
 [ 30 ] 
 
 tedious, no demand is made of tiilie for potatoes, 
 and fome few are exempted from tithe of flax. 
 
 I now, Sir, call upon the gentlemen of the 
 law, and afk. them if they can produce legal au- 
 thority in fupport of the extortions I have ftated. 
 If they cannot, I call on them to afliil me in 
 framing a bill that will remove thefe enormities^ 
 and give comfort to the peafant, and an honour- 
 able fupport to the parfon. 
 
 Sir, in refped to potatoes, the tithe ought in 
 juflice to be eftimated, not according to the 
 quantum of produce, but confonant to the poor 
 condition of the peafant ; and the perfon who 
 values them lliould ever have under confideration 
 the low price of labour in this country. The 
 Teverfe is the fad : in the province of Munfter 
 the exadions are uncommonly high, though the 
 price of labour is fo low that it fcarcely affords 
 the means of fuftenance to the wretched peafant 
 and his haplefs family. 
 
 When a minifter of the Gofpel vifits a parifli- 
 ioner fo circumftanced, and claims twelve or 
 fifteen, or fometimes twenty iliillings, for an 
 acre of tillage, he demands a child's share ; 
 he extrads alms from a beggar, he adds famine 
 to poverty, he infringes the holy Gofpel, he 
 
 grinds
 
 [ 31 J 
 
 grinds the face of the poor, and facrifices that 
 humanity and benevolence, which (hould diftin- 
 giiiQi the clerical charader, to the mammon of 
 iinrighteoufnefs. When fuch a man produces 
 the proftor's valuation, the peafant might pro- 
 duce the Gofpel, and in point of divinity, thougli 
 not of law, the peafant would have the advan- 
 tage of the parfon. The peafant would ftate the 
 paftor's fpiritual profeffion againft his reverence's 
 exaclion, and may admonifh him with his own 
 religion, which triumphs over every other divi- 
 iion of Chriftianity, by the exccfs of piety and 
 contempt of riches. 
 
 Sir, I cannot avoid combating the prevalent 
 opinion, that gentlemen (hould fupport the 
 clergy in upholding a fyRem, that has neither 
 equity or juftice to recommend it ; this indeed 
 would be a criminal partiality. 
 
 Is it becaufe the burden is renloved from the 
 flioulders of the rich to thofe of the poor ? Is it 
 becaufe the eflated gentry fend from their parks, 
 their palaces, and delightful improvements, the 
 ominous tithe- pro^lor to levy contributions on 
 the potatoe garden of the cottager ? Is it under 
 fuch narrow and confined confiderations you 
 mock the complaints of the peafantry, and re- 
 lufe your aid to remove their opprcflTion ? No, 
 
 furely ;
 
 C r- i 
 
 fiirely ; this would be a giols libel on the gene- 
 rolity of Iriflimen ! 
 
 Befides tlie accumulated dillrefles tithes bring 
 on the miferable tenantry, I do infift that no 
 fyflem has ever been adopted in this country 
 which more efFedually involves its inter eft. 
 Tithes, as operating againft agriculture, excite 
 depopulation, and are inconfiftent with indullry ; 
 there is a kindred alliance between tillage and 
 manufaftures, and what one fuffers by exaction 
 the other eventually experiences by depopula- 
 tion. 
 
 I cannot avoid exprefling my abhorrence at 
 clergymen interfering in fanguinary punilh- 
 ments; thofe who (liould fliew the moral exam- 
 ples of humanity and meeknefs, degrade the 
 ecclefiaftical charader by purfuing, with vindic- 
 tivenefs and perfecution, the objefts of their ven- 
 geance. Of the truth and piety of many worthy 
 ecclefiaftics, I am willing to bear honourable 
 teftimony ; their temperance and humanity are 
 deferving of applaufe. The wifli neareft my 
 heart, is to unite all parties, and the only mode 
 of accomplifliing this is, to provide amply for 
 the miniilers of the Gofpel, by a mode that 
 would facilitate tiie payment of the church re- 
 venues.
 
 C 33 ] 
 
 venues, and cafe the opprefTions of the wretched 
 pearantn\ 
 
 Sir, how difgraceful muft it appear to fee die 
 face of the foiithern provinces covered with an 
 extenfive army, fent for to fight the battles of 
 the clergy and their proctors ? How dreadful, 
 how fatal had been the confequences were they 
 led to action by a barbarian or a bigot ! No, 
 the rays of benevolence and humanity guided 
 tlie footfteps ot their commander, and he accom- 
 plilhed, by temperance and an amiable concilia- 
 tion, that peace and tranquillity which marked. 
 his march, and now lliews the gratitude ofthofe 
 creatures wiiom he difdained to flau2:hter. 
 
 On die part of the clergy it has been mention- 
 ed, that a combination exilled among the parifli- 
 ioners, which prevented the clergyman from 
 drawing home his tithes. To fliew this charge 
 J3 unfounded, 1 rcqucft rlie attention of the 
 Houie, while 1 read a letter from a reputable 
 gentleman, onwhofe veracity I can depend. It 
 is directed to the clergyman of his diocefe, and 
 is conceived in thefe terms ; — 
 
 ** Sir, 
 
 *' I deem it liighly proper to give you early 
 '* notice of my intention of laying out your tithe. 
 
 *' i re-
 
 
 [ 34 ] 
 
 ** I reqvicfl:, If convenient, you will be Co good 
 as to fend and have it drawn away. If, how- 
 ever, it will be attended with any inconveni- 
 ence, I fhall, if agreeable, draw it with my 
 
 ** own fervants and horfes.'* 
 
 Friendly and candid as this is, it has been re- 
 fufed. I muft think that the clergy lofe conli- 
 derably by their obftinacy in this refped. Thus 
 the old and only remedy the parifliioner had, 
 having been withftood by the law of the land,_ 
 tlie neceffity of a new one — a firm regulation 
 which will obviate all occaiion for either, muft 
 be apparent to every man of common fenfe— 
 of common difcretion. 
 
 In the county of Kerry, Sir, I am well In- 
 formed that mercilefs rapine and remorfelefs pe- 
 culation are every where to be found ; the whole 
 body of the people of that county are againft 
 pro(flors and tithe -farmers; therefore the voice of 
 juftice and the grievances of the people call loud- 
 ly for an a*5l of commutation. Tithes are the 
 body and foul of exadion and ufury, that defy 
 legiliAtive refLrictlon, and are only fuftained by 
 the ufes of a cmel law. 
 
 Now, after having made thefc ftatements, I 
 fhall obfcrve. that though there is no circumilance 
 
 adequate
 
 C 35 ] . 
 
 adequate to create orto juftify difturbance, thne 
 is no one objed lb likely to excite commotion a?; 
 a fcarcity of the necefTaries of life ; nothing can 
 tend fo much to caufethat fcarcity as the exorbi- 
 tance of tithe demands. If, therefore, you willi 
 the peace and tranquillity of the kingdom, you 
 will take neceflary meafures to prevent that ex- 
 orbitance, the firft ilep to which purpofe is the 
 appointment of a Committee of Inquiry on the 
 alledged grievances. Let each province of the 
 kingdom be placed on a level ; at prefent no 
 equality exifts ; for while the inhabitants of the 
 north, unannoycd by any religious exaction, 
 proceed cheerfully on their manufadures, and 
 various purfuits of profperous induftry, the ufe- 
 ful peafant in the fouth, who follows the plough, 
 anticipates, that the feed he fows will only ripen 
 to be plucked by the hand of a relcntlefs morl- 
 fter, and that he muft remain bereft of the 
 means of comfortable fubfiflence. 
 
 Thcfe are weighty grievances, and of them- 
 fclves (hould indicate the neceflity of fpeedy re- 
 gulation. But this neceflity will more (Irongly 
 appear from the fix allegations which I hold rn 
 my hand, and whicli evidence are ready to attcft 
 911 oath at the bar of your Hovife. 
 
 F ALLE-
 
 [ 36 ] 
 ALLEGATIONS. 
 
 I. 'That in certain parijhes in the fouth, tithe has 
 been demanded and paid for articles not tithabk by 
 law or cujlom ; and this they zvere ready to verify on, 
 oath at the bar of the Houfe of Commons. 
 
 II. That the tithe redory in certain pari^es in the 
 fouthy do afky extort, and recci-te from the poor pa- 
 rijhioncry one or two JJjillings in the pound under the 
 defcription ofreElorage, a demand opprefjive and ille- 
 gal ; and this they are ready to verify on oath at the 
 bar of the Houfe of Commons. 
 
 III. That in certain parifJ:)es in the fouth, demands 
 for tithe had been excejjive, and have not obferved 
 a7iy equity in favour of the hufbandman, the poor, or 
 the manufiBurer ; and this they are ready to verify 
 on oath at the bar of :he Houfe of Commons. 
 
 IV. That in certain parifjes in the fouth the ra- 
 lages for tithe have of late years greatly and rapidly 
 increafed, infomuch that certain livings in the courfe 
 of a few years have increafed three, four, or five fold ; 
 and this they are ready to verify on oath at the bar of 
 the Houfe of Commons. 
 
 V. That in certain parifhes in the fouth, the pa-* 
 rifjioners have duly and legally fet out their tithe, and 
 given due notice, but that no perfon has attended on 
 
 the
 
 C 37 ] 
 
 the part of the proElor or m'ln'ifter, under the cxpeFta- 
 jiorij they fuppofe, of getting fome other mode of re- 
 covery ^ tending to deprive the parijh of its legal right 
 of fetting out the tithe; and this they are ready to 
 verify on oath at the bar of the Houfe of Commons. 
 
 VI. That the tithe -farmers in certain parifJjes of 
 thefouth have opprejfed, and do opprefs his Majeflfs 
 fubje^s, by various ways of extortion, ajfuming to 
 themfelveSj arbitrarily and cruelly, pozvers which the 
 law do not give ; and by viaking a barbarous ufe of 
 fuch pozvers as the lazvhas put into their hands { and 
 this they are ready to verify on oath at ike bat of the 
 Houfe of Commons, 
 
 By fuffering the bufinefs to go into Committee, 
 and after examining fads, wc fhall, I am con- 
 vinced, be able to afcertain the grievance com- 
 plained of, and to difcover a fuitable remedy. 
 Let us not be diffuaded by the averfion of the 
 clergy from altering a fyftem, which, impelling 
 the lower clafles to defpair, fubjeds them to fan- 
 giiinary puniOiment, and diminilhes the revenue 
 of the clergy themfelvcs. The daemon of un- 
 righteoufnefs feems to have infpired the Irilh 
 ecclefiaflics with an unholy zeal ; and they op- 
 pofe with fury the reformation of a fyilem, which 
 they cannot even fupport by apoitolic authority ! 
 The church of Ireland is degraded into a fchool 
 
 F 2 of
 
 t 3S ] 
 
 of cortention and animofity ; that harmony 
 which fhoiild fubfift between the creatures of the 
 Omnipotent is baniflied from his temple, aild is 
 not even to be found amongft thofe who profefs 
 themfelves his enemies ! 
 
 I will now lay the fketch of a plan before the 
 Houfe, which, if adopted, will remove every 
 difhculty, and be equally beneficial to the clergy 
 and laity. 
 
 1 would give the {\andard of grain, for the 
 value of money ; I would let the officer who 
 llrikes the average of grain for the county, ftrike 
 it for feven years, for which fpace of time, this 
 average fliould be a nile for regulation of tithes, 
 to be a folemn compaft between the clergy and 
 laity ; a (imilar eftimate to be made at the expi- 
 ration of the next feven years ; thus to proceed 
 
 4 
 
 in regular gradation, by which an effeftual cau- 
 tion will be eftablifhed againfl injury to the cler- 
 gy, from a decreafe in the value of fpecie. I 
 think the mode of levying a tax of this nature for 
 the fupport of the clergy fhould be by applot- 
 mcnt, for that is a plan the common people are 
 bell acquainted with in raiiing public money, 
 upon which, in my experience, I have never 
 beard of difcontent or murmuring. 
 
 ^
 
 L 59 ] 
 
 By diminiiliing the income of rich and unde- 
 ferved benefices, poflefled by non-refident eccle- 
 fiaftics, a fund will accnie for augmenting the 
 falaries of the inferior clergy ; men who have 
 long toiled in the vineyard, a mod worthy and 
 meritorious body ! It is not meet that aminifter 
 of the Gofpel, who deferts or defpifes the duties. 
 of his funftion, fliould monopolize the fums al- 
 loted as a recompenfe for fpiritual fervices which 
 he never performs. — It is not proper to leave the 
 refident paftor to pine in obfcurity and want. — 
 In a confiderable tract of the county, which com- 
 prehends a large fcope of ground, I can voucli, 
 from my own knowledge, that there is but one 
 refident clergyman for the cure of many thoufand 
 fouls who dwelleth in it ! and the faiary of this 
 ecclefiaftic is no more than thirty pounds a year ! 
 Surely fuch laborious priefts Ihould be allowed 
 to participate of the unearned wealth of their 
 
 idle brethren. But if the legiflature (hall not 
 
 think that proper, the reducbon may be ex- 
 plained to fuch purpofe as may be deemed moll 
 expedient. 
 
 Confonant to this plan, I would totally exempt 
 from all tithe-rates the food and fuel of the poor 
 cottager — potatoes and turf in all parts of the 
 kingdom. — I would alfo take fuch precautions 
 a; would prevent the growth of fuch articles as 
 
 are
 
 [ 40 ] 
 
 are effential to manufadnres from being retarded 
 cither by a total abolition of tithe on them, or by . 
 fubflituting a very hght commutation. But I 
 would make compenfation to the clergy for the 
 vote of agiftment. — I would have all the gra- 
 zing grounds which are now exempt, contribute 
 an acreable allowance. This would evidently 
 befriend agriculture, and by being coUefted in 
 the manner of a pariili cefs, would obviate all 
 the trouble attendant on tithe at prefent, fuch as 
 viewing, canting, and fetting. — This plan, I 
 pledge myfelf, would produce afyftem of equa- 
 lity as yet unknown. The rates under it when 
 in eflimation would be. 
 
 Wheat, per acre, 5^. 5^. 
 
 Barley, do. 2 s. 6 d. 
 
 Poiafoes, zvhcre cultivated in any quantity, 
 
 6d. an acre. 
 And all other rat ages would be equally req- 
 
 jonahle. 
 
 "^rhc divtm' right of tithes has been ever fet up 
 by the clergy in oppofition to the facrileglou^ ef- 
 forts of the laity t-o abolifh them. — To anticipate 
 this argument is no great proof of penetration ; 
 to refute it, requires no great degree of logic. 
 If we give ourfelves time .to trace the origin of 
 tithes., we fhall have no great caute to exult in. 
 
 our
 
 [ 41 J 
 
 our imitation. — In the early days ofdarknefsand 
 bigotf)', an ignorant people were not averfe to 
 fuftain the hixiiries of the church — Bigotry and 
 a blind enthurialm favoured the wilhes of the 
 prieft, and the laity fubicribed cheerfully to his 
 f jpport — The want of money gave the firft rife 
 to tithing ; the people were bigots and barba- 
 rians, and their priefts were fenfualifls and extor- 
 tioners — The fituation of the world was fuch in 
 the antediluvian a?ra, and the fcarcity of money 
 was fo prevalent, that tithes were naturally 
 fixed upon as the moil eligible provifion for the 
 clergy. 
 
 The Jews, Sir, as having favoured the cuftom 
 of tithing, feemto have laid dovvn fuch a maxim 
 for the conduct of Chriftians, as Chriftians fear 
 to violate. When 1 hear of the ftubborn argu- 
 ments ufed by the ecclefiaftics of the church of 
 Ireland, in favour of divine right, it incites mf 
 indignation. — The clergy who make ufe of fuch 
 an argument are unacquainted with the fubjedl of 
 tithes, elfe they would defpife oppofmg it to the 
 oppofition of the laity ; for the firfl mention we 
 find of tithes in holy writ, is of Abraham, who 
 redeemed his kinfman Lot with his fubdance — 
 Pagans improved on the fyftem of Jews, and the 
 Chriftians of the prefent cera improve upon both ; 
 forry am 1 to fee the example of Jews and ido- 
 laters
 
 [ 4^ ] 
 
 lators held (o facred among Chriflians. — Tithes 
 were founded in the days of darknefs, and they 
 are continued at the prefent enhghtened period, 
 
 through wickednefs and perverfenefs. This 
 
 Ho\ife is not a fynagogue of Jews; why, there- 
 fore, fo tenacioully adhere to Jewilh cuftoms, ex- 
 cept there is fomething rational to recommend 
 the cuftom or ufage ?— -As well may you contend 
 for a revival of their prepofterous cuftoms, their 
 purifaftions and their circumcifions, as to argue 
 and infer, that becaufe tithe was their modes 
 of payment it fliould be adopted and continued 
 by us. 
 
 When the grofs idolatries and the vile abomi- 
 nations which over-run this terreftrial habitation 
 fuperceded the Chriftian religion, were tithes 
 continued, or is there an inftance of their being 
 demanded ? — Were tithes demanded under the 
 Chriftian doftrine, or under the difpenfation of 
 the Gofpel ? Did the primitive minifters of Chrif- 
 tianity demand tithes ? Or is there any proof 
 that they depended on tithes for their fupport ? 
 If they did not, I fav, the claims of the clergy 
 for tithes areunchriftian-like ; it is an avaricious 
 demand, united widi avarice and extortion, 
 which nor only deprives it of all force and validi- 
 ty, but renders oppofition to it by no means cri- 
 minal. 
 
 Are
 
 C 43 ] 
 
 Are not the words of the great Redeemer of 
 mankind repugnant to the exadlions of the cler- 
 gy of this day ? What does he fay ? 
 
 " Beware of covetoufnefs." — *^ Lay not vip 
 for yourfelves treafures on earth." 
 
 When the MefTiah, with his Apoflles, enter- 
 ed into the dweUing of the Gentiles, he faid 
 *' Peace be to thishoufe." — l^ot tithes. 
 
 Does this feem to fandion a demand of the 
 foil's produce ? 
 
 The Council of Conflance, I admit, may be 
 adduced againft our interference in the fyftem of 
 tithes. — The Council of Lateran, and Council 
 of Nantz, denounced vengeance, and thunder- 
 ed their anathemas againft all thofe who refufed 
 to pay tithe. The fentiments of St. Auguftine 
 and St. Jerome were coincident with thefe ; as 
 was alfo Juno's, who gave Priapus, the genius 
 of war, all the tithes of fpoils that Mars gained 
 in battle, for learning him to dance ! Eudemus men- 
 tions a kind of beaft in Africa, that feems tho- 
 roughly acquainted with the dodrine of tithes ; 
 thefc animals always eat ten parts of their prey, 
 leaving the eleventh as a kind of firft fruit. One 
 would have thought that this fancied dcfcription 
 
 c; of
 
 C 44 ] 
 
 of Eudemus was a prophecy of the rapacity of 
 our modern elergy. 
 
 As to Auguftine, Sir, he was a good and a 
 rehgio\is man : To prevent fenfuaUty and feaft- 
 ing, he claimed a tithe of the perfons who dined 
 within his holy diftri6l : His demand being com- 
 phed with, and the Saint following the example 
 of other ghoftly Fathers, fpent in perfonal appro- 
 priations and revelry, a tax that was levied under 
 the fpecious pretext of curbing immorality and 
 diflipation. 
 
 The old Fathers, Sir, fometimes afTerted their 
 holy claims with temperance, and oftentimes 
 with avidity, equal to the pious claimants of the 
 prefent period. They difdained, like an India 
 or South Sea Company, to demand them under 
 the right of charter ; their refources or regula- 
 tions of provifion being unfettled, they made 
 them ever fubfervient to their luxury. The bi- 
 gotry of the people was fuch that it prevented 
 all refiftancc ; which indeed was needlefs, for 
 in cafe they did, a whole army of faints would fly 
 to the attack, and feize with impunity on the fa- 
 , cred treafure. 
 
 Tithes, Sir, were not introduced into England 
 till about the fourth century, and what gave rife 
 
 to
 
 [ 45 ] 
 
 to thera at that time, will be no great matter of 
 triumph to the clergy. The pious King of Mer- 
 cia perpetrated a barbarous murder, and to expi- 
 ate the horrid crime, and fave the fouls of his 
 mother, his grandmother, and anceftors, he not 
 only caufed tithes to be rigoroufly exa(5led from 
 his fubjefts, but paid them himfelf. A laudable 
 inftance that a fyftem founded on fo righteous 
 a meafure fhould not fuffer by innovation ! I 
 fhould mention that the paying of tithes after their 
 cftablifhment in England, was for near a century 
 peculiar to the kingdom oiMercia, but was about 
 the year 1400 introduced throughout England by 
 an equally pious and fanguinary Monarch. 
 
 To demonftrate that tithes have been ever 
 fubjeft to innovation, you have only to recur to 
 an ad made in the fifth of Henry IV. " Where 
 a bill paffed the Commons againftthe exac- 
 tions of tithe of quarries and tithe of dates.'* 
 
 <( 
 (( 
 
 In the 31ft Henry VIII. chap. 1 3. it was enact- 
 ed that " the King and his patentees ihould hold 
 their pofTeffion of the dilTolved monaftries dif- 
 charged and acquitted of payment of tithes, as 
 freely and in as large and ample a manner as 
 thehoufes of religion held them at the time" of 
 their dilTolution." 
 
 Sir,
 
 [ 46 ] 
 
 Sir, the iiiilanccs of innovations are nuinbcrlefs, 
 and are as glaring as the exadions pradifed in le- 
 vying of tithes are notorious. It may be a mat- 
 ter not unworthy the attention of the Houfe, to 
 calculate all the certain and incidental expences 
 of cultivation ; it amounts at leaft to a demand of 
 one fixth, beyond difpute. But when the one 
 tenth is demanded, if you calculate juftly, you 
 will find that with the labour, and all the certain 
 and incidental expences of cultivation, it amounts 
 at lead to a demand of oneftxth, that is, " one 
 *' fixth of the whole produce of the kingdom would 
 ** fall to the fhare of eight or nine hundred hdivi- 
 ** duals — while, for the remaining two millions nine 
 hundred and above ninety-nine thoufand inhabitants, 
 would only be left to divide amongjl them, the re- 
 ** maining five parts,^' — a grievance fo monftrous 
 as prima facie to fpeak for itfelf — But it will be 
 objeded that the demand of the full tenth is not 
 made : for that very reafon a regulation is necef- 
 fary. Are the clergy fo diftinguifhed for meek- 
 nefs, moderation, and a contempt of the goods 
 of this world, that you can with fafety or pru- 
 dence fuffer theprofperity of the fubjed to hinge 
 upon their forbearance ? What ! will you fuf- 
 fer the prosperity of the fubjed to hinge upon the 
 forbearance of the clergy, when the intereft of 
 the clergy is at (lake, and when their intereft is j 
 incompatible with the fubjed's profperity ? 
 
 Siirelf 

 
 C 47 3 
 
 Surely this is contrary to all proportion ; a, 
 weighty grievance, and of itfelf Ihould indicate 
 the neceflity of fpeedy regulation. 
 
 I applaud that meeknefs and piety of the prc- 
 fent race of clergymen, whofe good works we 
 are told entitle them to a divifion of the whole 
 kingdom every fixth year ; let no man then 
 condole with an impious laity, though they 
 fuffer every extortion and oppreffion to infiire 
 our virtuous paftors honed competence and holy 
 eafe. 
 
 While I am fpeaklng upon this fubject, J 
 would not have it underllood that I am ignorant 
 of the latent caufe which obftruAs an amicable 
 adjuftment of the tithe-bufmefs. It is the ar- 
 rogant idea that the profane laity (hould not 
 meddle with the facred thin2;s of the church I 
 It is from the impio\is opinion that the wealth 
 of the church (hould be unbounded ; as if Chriil 
 could not walk over the land without being ac- 
 companied by Mammon ! It is from that pre- 
 fumptuous waywardnefs which will neither 
 hearken to the cries oi diftrefs or the didates of 
 reafon ! — It is from the over-caution ot digni- 
 fied luxury ! from a tenacioufnefs of relinquifh- 
 ing, even for a moment, that grafp of thofe 
 revenues, which are at prefent firmly held ; re- 
 venues
 
 r 4S 3 
 
 venues that bloat the dignitary in proportion as 
 they bring down rehgion — religion which is de- 
 clining apace, and in many parts of the king- 
 dom is already, like the nymph Echo, dwindled 
 to a mere found ! from that fpirit of jealoufy 
 which impels the clergy on the mention of 
 *' commutation,'^ to attempt moving heaven, 
 earth, and ocean, in their behalf — to invoke 
 Jove to (liake Olympus with his thunderbolts 
 — Neptune to take the deep with his D-ident — • 
 while Plutus, their tutelary god, protefts their 
 coffers ! 
 
 An idea has gone abroad, that it is the duty of 
 gentlemen, at all events, to proted the clergy in 
 their prefent fyftem. This is an afperfion of their 
 own charader, becaufe they are interefted in 
 fo doing. It is right to fupport the clergy ho- 
 nourably; it fhould be the fii-ft objetfl of 
 every man. [_bear ! bear! hear!] I fay fo, be- 
 caufe I think the fupport of Chriftianity the firll 
 dutv. 
 
 What IJuther did for us, philofophy has done 
 for the Roman Catholics : Elizabeth and Luther 
 dared a reformation in the church, and who will 
 be bold enough to fay we are lefg competent 
 tlian they ? 
 
 In
 
 t 49 ] 
 
 In the name of humanity, I call on you to 
 hearken to the voice of millions ; for the honour 
 of the ecclefiaftical charader, give the clergy an 
 opportunity of refuting thofe heavy charges made 
 againft them. 
 
 * Hdc lege J in trutind ponetur eadem^ 
 Tu quid & populus mecum decideraU 
 
 Though the clergy revolt at the idea of com* 
 mutation, they can give no reafon for their per- 
 verfenefs ; perhaps they think that the Irifli 
 peafant, like the afs, becomes more ufeful and 
 adive in his labours, by adding to tlie weight 
 of his burden. Benevolent confideration ! 
 
 The prodors, you are convinced, are not only 
 colleftors of tithes, but gatherers of taxes. — 
 They are appointed by the parfon, as a fliep- 
 herd appoints his dog, to watch over the ilock ; 
 but like barbarous wolves, they unmercifully 
 devour the flock, and deceive the paftor! Their 
 office of tax-gatherer is procured by the courtly 
 intereft of their employers ; and fo faithful arc 
 
 * The Reporter, by a recurrence to his notes, difcovcm 
 that Mr. Grattan did not make ulc of the Latiu cjuotatioa 
 *' Nemo compeUetor^ fed Jic pinceat" as erroncoiifly ftated in 
 the Morning Poft, which has liecn fince infcrted in a srURi- 
 oui publication of Mr. firattau's fpccch. 
 
 they
 
 C so 3 
 
 they to the intereft of their paftors, that they 
 often remit the tax and levy the tithe. Thus 
 the clergy and tithe-pro6lors have fet up a little 
 commutation of their own, which they enjoy in 
 privacy and peace, though they are hoftile to 
 the idea of the legiflature adopting one, and in- 
 voke all the faints to arms, on bare mention of 
 the word amongfl: the reprefentatives of the peo- 
 ple ! For fuch taxes as are not paid, the pro<ftor 
 gets the note of the peafant ; thefe notes are 
 known in that part of the kingdom by the ap- 
 pellation of Kerry Bonds ; and by that means, 
 terrifying him with the pidure of a prifon, he 
 gets him foul and body into his poffeffion ! Op- 
 prefiTmg not only the fubjed, but defrauding the 
 revenue ! 
 
 I implore the Houfe not to credit every idle 
 tale that rumour has fent abroad, relative to the 
 people of the fouth. The impediments faid to be 
 offered to the coUedion of tithe, are rarely found- 
 ed in fad. In many inftances they have not only 
 offered no oppofition, but have voluntarily pro^ 
 pofed to draw them with their own cars and their 
 own cattle, and this too, free of all gratuity. — 
 You fliould rather liften to the wailings of men, 
 born in flavery, and educated in captivity ! The 
 oppreffion of tithe-farmers, and tithe-canters, has 
 long fince bent their necks to the yoke of obedi- 
 ence.
 
 [ 51 ] 
 
 ence^, and they frequently rubmlt to the mofl 
 cmel iilages of the la.v, to mifery and famine, 
 rather than riik a htigation with their vicious 
 oppreflbrs. 
 
 I can adduce Inftances where the p.arlfhioner 
 has been inhumanly compelled to pay ten per 
 cent, for the privilege of paying full tenths to 
 the par-fon ! I have befides^ the fchcdules of the 
 proftor's demands, and which I will oppofe to 
 the idea of an undervaluation. Thefe fchedules 
 
 run thus " fo much for barley — fo much 
 
 for oats — fo much for wheat — fo much for po- 
 tatoes." Now they are all high ratages — and 
 in addition to the parfon's exorbitance is the 
 proctor's demand of 2S. in the pound for his 
 trouble, making a ratage of excefs and uncha- 
 ritablenefs, which rather calls for the puniflimcnt 
 of difmiflal, than the prodigious reward of one- 
 tenth of the whole fum. 
 
 I do not condemn the proclor for making the 
 mod of his trade, which is exaction, but I con- 
 demn the laws for leaving tlie divifion of pro- 
 perty to the difcretion of a wretch who only 
 follows his nature, when he excifes upon the 
 moft wretched, and the mofl hclplcfs part of the 
 community. I know it has been ailerred that 
 the full lendi upon tillage has never been de- 
 
 H mandwi
 
 t 5^ ] 
 
 manded — but if you go into an inquiry, I havff' | 
 the ftrongeft reafon for fuppofing that tlie alFer- 
 tion will be controverted to the full fatisfaction 
 of every member in the Houfe. 
 
 Nor do the effecls of the bounty which I fo 
 much applaud, ever reach the claffes of men of 
 whom I now fpeak. It is of elFential fervice 
 to the opulent landlord, but not to the indullrious 
 tenant. The haplefs people of the fouth are 
 hufbandmen from necefTity not choice. They 
 have no Other means of exiflence. They are 
 obliged, in many places, to clamber mountains, 
 rocks, and precipices, to fnatch from fterility a 
 little fpot of ground, and oppofe indefatigable 
 induftry to the natural ftubbornnefs of the foil ; 
 and they are compelled to wade to cultivation 
 through bogs and morafles ; labouring thus to 
 reclaim watery fpaces and difmal voids ; labour- 
 ing thus to add to the productive grounds of the 
 kingdom. And for all their exertion, what is 
 their reward ? none — but on the contrary, wliile 
 it diftinguifhcs them as the moft ufeful memb^s 
 of fociety, itfubjefts them to the predatory grafp 
 of avaricious proftors, and unfeeling tithe-far- 
 mers. In England thefe lands would for feven 
 years be exempt from taxes of any defcription, 
 under the fandion of the laws. In Ireland they 
 are not only oblig^ to contribute their propor- 
 tion
 
 I S3 1 
 
 tion of taxes, but tithe of every denominationi 
 is mofl rig-orouflv demanded from them. The 
 wretched mountaineers who cultivate them are 
 obhged for fome crops to pay thirty (hillings an 
 acre tithe ; for wheat, where raifed, fourteen Ihil- 
 lings an acre ; oats, potatoes, and indeed every 
 other article are rated upon a fimilar fcale of 
 cruelty and rapine. But this payment of tithe is 
 not all. Thefe mountaineers are obhged to fub- 
 mit to a poll-tax, to the charge of fmoke-money, 
 to feveral otlier ecclefiaftical impofitions : fuch as 
 fees for oblations, fees for religious ceremonies, 
 and a thoufand other fantaftical charges, ground- 
 ed on the groflell fuperftition, and enforced with 
 unabating feverity. All thefe charges I under- 
 {land will be proved upon oath at the bar of 
 your Houfe. Nay more : The ratages of tithe 
 have rifen in thefe identical places in a gradation 
 of two, three, and four fold. And this too, I un- 
 dei-ftand, will be verified on oath at the bar of 
 your Houfe. ♦ 
 
 Where can the tenantry of Ireland look fop 
 protection if you deny them afTifbmce ? They 
 arc the pillars of the ftatc, and if not humanity, 
 good policy ought at Icall to guide you to cheriih 
 them. You complain they are intractable; there 
 is no animal fo fierce but can be tamed, fave the 
 tyger ; yet he is in fome meafure to be fubdued. 
 If yo\A wilh to conciliate him, feed luni well. 
 
 H 2. 1 ry
 
 C 54 ] 
 
 Try the experiment, I entreat you, with the in- 
 habitants of the ibiith, which you can eafily do, 
 by reheving them from the heavy exadions un- 
 der which they fuffer. 
 
 I know it will be faid, if you eafe them of their 
 burden, in this refped, that it will afford but 
 the momentary eafe of fliifting it from one flioul- 
 der to another ; that rents will immediately rife. 
 I deny it. I fay it is an odious, an infamous 
 libel on the gentry of the nation. I fay it is a 
 fcandalous imputation on both houfes of Parlia- 
 ment, who are all poffelTed of lands, to fuppofe 
 that they would avail themfelves of their own 
 aft ; to fuppofe that they would take a bafe ad- 
 vantage of the clemency of the legillaturc, and 
 fliamefully filch for their own ufe what was in- 
 tended for the fuflenance of the pcafantry. 
 
 I laugh at the idea that Parliament cannot in- 
 terfere in the bufinefs, becaufe tithes are priv<jte 
 property. I fay they are pubhc property to de- 
 fray a public expeace, which is the maintenance 
 of the clergy. Befides, there is this difference to 
 be obferved-: the law gives no man a private 
 property, it only proteds him in the pofTcffion of 
 it. Now the law gives the clergy their iupport, 
 ^nd giving it, can alfuredly regulate that pro- 
 perty. I glory in the power ; nay, in the omni- 
 potence
 
 C 55 1 
 
 potence of Parliament in this refpecl; and I 
 hope it will be exercifed in this inftance to ex- 
 pole the fallacy of an argument which has been 
 fo induftiioufly circulated. 
 
 What ! will this honourable Houfe continue 
 to view with fiient apathy, afyilcm of opprellion 
 which does no honour to the legiflative charac- 
 ter ? Will this honourable Houfe fay it is not 
 competent to the tafk of reforming tithes, and 
 'ecclefiaftical dues ? — What ! are you, after hav- 
 mg reftored your appellant jurifdiclion — are you, 
 who were competent to decide, as you did, on 
 the tenantry bill — to emancipate your conftitu- 
 tion, and to eftablifh your independance — in- 
 competent to alter and approve; nay, pull down 
 a ftruclure \\hofe bafis is exaftion, and whole 
 fupport is matchlefs oppreflion ? 
 
 Another argument founded upon the danger of 
 innovation may be urged ; but it is equally fal- 
 lacious. — The fame argument might be ufed 
 againft any improvement. — Wliat is the glorious 
 conftitution you poflefs but innovation ? Inno- 
 vation upon a monarchy in the hands of a def- 
 potic prince ? What is the mild and amiable re- 
 ligion you profefs, tlic proteftant religion, but 
 an innovation ? What is it but Cluidianity ref- 
 cucd out of the hands of an ambitious, a cor- 
 rupt.
 
 C 56 ] 
 
 nipt, and avaricious pricfthood ? When bloody- 
 Herod was informed that the forerunners of the 
 Redeemer of mankind were preaching the vir- 
 tues of humility and true religion, he deemed it 
 innovation, and he committed indifcriminate 
 maifacre to extirpate the Son of God, whom he 
 pronounced an innovator 1 The revolution itfelf, 
 ■which introduced arts, fciences, and learning, 
 was deemed an innovation! — ^\Vhat was your 
 own riot-ad, your own compenfation-ad of laft 
 fefTion ? Innovadon indeed — innovations with a 
 vengeanc^^ ! — It is an abufe of terms to call im- 
 provement innovation. Salutary alteratives which 
 amend the debilitated conftitution are juftly 
 termed reftoratives ; and the fame will hold 
 good applied to the flate, as well as applied to 
 the human frame. 
 
 Without renovation there had been no revela- 
 tion ? Hearken, I again call on you, to the com- 
 plaints of the people, and do not permit the 
 luxury of the clergy to make the altar the flep- 
 ping ftool to ufury and abomination. 
 
 The fource of your reafon tells yo\i that 
 you iliould embrace every fed of religion ; how 
 then can you hope to receive fovereign mercy 
 if you are deaf to the cries of your fellow 
 creatures f 
 
 The
 
 [ 57 ] 
 
 The doclrine of the dark conclave of bigotry, 
 which, burfting, ovenvhehned the nations of the 
 earth, may be urged in favour of fuch criminal 
 apathy ; but the pangs of him who fuffered a 
 cruel crucifixion will rulh from the fepulchre, to 
 upbraid you with ingratitude and involve your 
 future tranquillity. 
 
 Do not evifcerate the bowels of the \NTetcheS 
 that implore your protedion. The Chriftian 
 church cannot exift on the ruins of barbarity < 
 the pillars of extortion and rapaCloufnefs but 
 deface the noble ftruclure, level them with the 
 dull, and reflore it to its primitive fplendour. 
 
 You have reforted to the engines of coercion 
 and penal laws, to give tranquillity to the king- 
 dom, but you never thought of an engine which 
 would have anlVered the purpofe with a thou- 
 fand times more efficacy, the engine of redrefs, 
 'Tis not yet too late to ufe it. Convince the 
 people, I conjure you, for once, that you con- 
 fider them objecls of your care, Imprefs them 
 with this gratifying fcntiment ; there is not a 
 fpeck on the map ot your country which is not 
 the objed of your earned folicitude ; and this yon 
 will do by fuflfering the bufmefs to go into Com- 
 mittee. 1 implore you to it; I implore the coun- 
 try gentlemen pariiculajly, by their viriuc, their 
 
 juftjcc.
 
 t 58 1 
 
 juflice, their honour, by their feehngs, their 
 regard of humanity, their love of their coun- 
 try, but above all, by that latent fpark which 
 I knew to be in their compofition, and which 
 I have often feen blaze forth, and leave in 
 eclipfed degradation the abaihed fervants of the 
 Crown. We fliall then have laid the foundation 
 of an inquiry which muft enforce us a happy 
 peafantry, a venerable priefthood, and a con- 
 tented people. 
 
 The Attorney General. — The Rt. Hon* 
 Gentleman has given us an uncommon difplay 
 of the moft fplendid oratory I have every heard, 
 but I hope the delufion into which the Houfe 
 have been thrown, by the eloquence and the 
 high colouring which my Right Hon, Friend 
 has given the fubjedl, will foon vanifli, and that 
 they will view the queflion divefted of all glare, 
 pomp of words, and flight of imagination, 
 with reafon, calmnefs, and juftice. In the fouth 
 of Ireland that caufe of difcontent did exiil, 
 no one will deny, but I deny that thefe difcon- 
 tents were owing to the clergy. I am ready to 
 admit that thefe • dilcontents might be owing 
 to die improper and rapacious conduft of the 
 tithe-prodors, but there are laws already in exiil- 
 ence to take cognizance of their condudt. I am 
 ready to agree with my Right Hon, friend, 
 
 that
 
 [ J9 ] 
 
 that the decillons of ecclefiaflical courts in refpect 
 to tithes, may not be altogether fo very proper ; 
 and to remedy that, if I have the concurrence of 
 my Right Honourable Friend, I have no objec- 
 tion to bring in a bill, to prevent ecclcfiaftical 
 courts from determining fuits brought on ac- 
 count of tithes. If the peafantry are opprefled 
 by the exactions of the farmers and tithe-proc- 
 tors, the inheritors of the land ought to give 
 them redrefs. I would alk my Right Honour- 
 able Friend, is it his wilh that the minifters of 
 the eftabliihed church in this kingdom ihould be 
 left deftitute of a fettled fubfillence, and go 
 about requefling alms ? Much has been faid on 
 the unrelenting feverity of the clergy in refpect 
 to their tithes, but I am well informed, and I 
 beheve the fa6t is fo, that in ninety-nine in- 
 ftances out of one hundred, the parfon is the 
 perfon who is really opprefled, and deprived of 
 his juft dues. In regard to the prefent difcon- 
 tents on the fuhjeft of tithes, I am aflured that 
 they originated in election party, and I muft alfo 
 inform my Right Honourable Friend, that the 
 perfons who now look up to him for redrefs, will 
 not be fatisfied with a commutation, for they 
 wilh not to pay the parfon at all ; but admit- 
 ting tor a moment that a cojnmutation for 
 tithes Ihould take place, the abolition of the 
 hearth'iuurjey will be the next thing they will 
 
 I look
 
 C 60 ] 
 
 look for, and thefe will be the confequences 
 of going into a Committee. If the peafantry in 
 general were to fhake off that refpedt for their 
 clergy, whom, from early habits, they have been 
 ufed to look on with a kind of veneration, and if 
 they are permitted to fet the clergy a defiance, 
 and to look upon them with contempt, you will 
 have no poflible tie over them. I am therefore 
 decidedly of opinion, that going into a Commit- 
 tee would be productive of the worft confe- 
 quences, I earneftly requeft my Right Hon. 
 Friend to give me any one or the whole of his 
 plans, in the fhape of a bill, and if I fhall un- 
 cjerftand them, I will then give my Right Hon. 
 Friend my opinion more fully on the fubjedt, in 
 refped: to its being pradlicable or not. 
 
 Mr. CuRRAN. — 'With much diffidence I rife 
 to encroach onthe patience of the Houfe, to fay 
 a few words on a fubjeft where fuch an aflonilh- 
 ing difplay of eloquence has been united with fo 
 much information, that I muft confefs myfelf 
 loft in admiration, and incapable of cafting a 
 nev/ light on a bufinefs of fuch great national 
 magnitude. 
 
 Indeed there is nothing left unfaid ; however, 
 from the part I have taken laft feffion, my filence 
 jnay be conftrqed into apoftacy, and I may be 
 
 faid
 
 [ 6i ] 
 
 faid to recede from thofe fentimeiits I have be- 
 fore pronounced. Were I not indeed decided 
 in my opinion, and firmly perfuaded of the ne- 
 ceflity of a commutation, I fliould be deaf to 
 convidion, and loll to every fenfe of humanity. 
 
 I can fay, with tmth, that I am a fincere 
 friend to the clergy, and wifli to fee them no 
 longer continue in a ftate of uncertainty, that 
 mud be very diftrefling to the feelings of gentle- 
 men, and not a little difgraceful to the laws ; 
 laws which have been made in the daysof dark- 
 nefs and fuperftition, and have now nothing but 
 their antiquity and abfurdity to recommend 
 them. The temple of the Lord is now fuppoit- 
 ed by extortion and oppreffion, the people arc 
 alienated from the prieflhood, and the face of 
 the whole bufmefs bears lb melancholy an ap- 
 pearance, that every gentleman is called upon 
 for his exertions. 
 
 It is faid, that in this propofcd inquiry the 
 clergy may be afperfed ; that is another reafon 
 why I fhould voteforaninveftigation, for in that 
 inquiry I hope that the difcontents faid to exifl 
 may be found to be exaggerated, and if there are 
 any complaints againfl: the clergy, Itruftthey 
 will prove unfounded, and that the condudof a 
 few, if fuch there arc, ought not to tlirow a ftig-
 
 t . 6» 3 
 
 ma on the whole ot that refpcdable body. For 
 the honour of Padiament I will vote for the mo- 
 tion. Laft feflion the peafantry in the fouth were 
 in a ftate of tumult and infurre6lion, and you op- 
 poied them with arms, and in doing this yo\j 
 fhewed your fpirit. — Their grievances and com- 
 plaints were then oifered to be fubmitted -to you, 
 but you would not hear them till they returned to 
 an obedience of the laws, and then, and not till 
 then, you faid you would attend to their com- 
 plaints ; and now that they are in a ftate of per- 
 fe(fl fubmifTion to the laws, you refufe to hear 
 them : and will an adminiftration which endea- 
 vours to gain popularity by detefting of pecula- 
 tion^ refufe to hften to the complaints of a de- 
 fcription' of people who fay they are. aggrieved ? 
 You promiied, and you ought to hear them. I 
 declare my moft perfect coincidence in the mo- 
 tion made by my Right Honourable Friend for 
 going into a Committee. 
 
 The Floufe divided on Mr. Grattan's motion. 
 
 For it, 49 
 
 Againfl; it, 121 
 
 FINIS. 
 
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