cQOOMCOOMQQvl 'aCQewBQOa I fay, themfelves, Sir, for, I confider the Crown, and its Servants, as one ; and, I will venture to fay, that no Inftance can be produced, in which fuch Requifition was made, even in Times, when, \ :rhaps, the Rules of Justice were not fo clofely adhered to as they ought. Beiides, Sir, what is now moved for, is abfurd ; and, for that Reafon alone, if tiiere was no other, I would oppofe it; to what. Sir, does our Enquiry tend? We are to judge the fame Queftion, which has been put to the Attorney and Sollicitor- General, we are not to judge them for judg- ing it ; and we are to determine, Sir, accord- ing to our Senfe of the lew, according to in- dubitable Precedent, and according to our own Information, and not according to the Opinion of Lawyers, of whatPvank, or Ability foever ; I Hiall, therefore, give my Voice a- gainft the Motion as unprecedented, and, in every Refpccft, improper. Mr Day v.] ^J^airs of Ireland, 95 Mr £— ikf— . MrS , *' That the King can do no Wrong,'* is a Maxim well known, and, I believe, generally allowed ; but. Sir, I cannot fufficiently ex- prefs my Surprize and Concern, at hearing Opinions advanced, in this Houfe, from which it muft neceflarily follow, that the King's Minifters, or Servants, can do no Wrong. We have been told. Sir, that the King and his Servants are one, and, that we have no Right to addrefs the King to ac- quaint us with the Advice given to him by his Servants, upon the Principle, that no Man is to be required to criminate himfelf ; but this Dodlrine, Sir, has the common Fate of Error and Fallacy, it overturns the very Principle it would eftablifh ; that the King can do Wrong is true only upon a Suppofition that his Servants may j and that they may be called to an Account for fo doing : If they cannot be called to an Account for doing. Wrong, it is of very little Confequence to us, whether their being liable to do Wrong is al- lowed or denied. What is it to us, whether they 96 Debates relative to the [Day V. they can, or cannot do Wrong, if, when it is allowed they do Wrong, we have no Reme- dy ? And how are we to have this Remedy, Sir, but by addreffing his Majefty, upon any wrong or doubtful Meafure, to know what Advice was given him concerning it, and who was the Advifer ? Gentlemen have talked much of Precedents in this Houfe, and have very j'jftly fuppofed that Precedent im- plies a Right, and confirms it j and, if fo, I am fure we have moft abundant Proof that this Houfe has a Right to addrefs the Crown, to do, what is called criminating its Servants, and that the Crown has complied with fuch Addrefs. We have Precedents, Sir, enough, upon Record, of corrupt Advifers of Kings, who have betrayed the public Caufe, being given up to public Juftice ; and, are we now to condemn all thefe Precedents at once ? to explode the Principle upon which they were formed, and renounce the falutaryEffeds they produced, by fuppofing, that the Crown and its Servants are one, and, that when thefe Servants are perfidious, and betray their royal Mafler's higheft Intereft, by betraying that of his People, he cannot be addrefifed to difclofe their Advice, becaufe a Man ought not to be required to criminate himfelfl I fay, Sir> Day v.] Affairs i?/' Ireland. 97 Sir, to difclofe their Advice, for, to favour the Suppofition that the King can do no Wrong, he is fuppofed only to carry the Advice of others into Execution ; the Servants of the Crown are anfwerable for every illegal or un- conflitutional Adt that palTes the great Seal -, yet the Ad: is not theirs, the Signature that makes it valid is not theirs, and the Order for paffing it is not theirs ; all thefe Adts are the Ads of the Crov/n ; for v^hat, then, is the Servant, or Minifter, anfwerable but for his Advice, vs^ithout which thefe Ads would never have been done ? And how are we to acquire an Ability to judge of this Advice, but by addreffing the Crown to lay it before us, with all that has any immediate Relation to it ? I will venture to fay. Sir, that thus to addrefs the Crown is not only our Right, but our Duty and our Intereft ; and it is alfo the Intereft of the Crown to comply with fuch Addrefs : If its Servants have been faith- ful, the more ftrid the Examination of their Condud, the more Honour they will ac- quire ; if they have not, it will be equally dangerous both to the Crown, and to the Conftitution, to fcreen them. It has been faid. Sir, that if the Advifers of the Crown were to give their Opinion, under a Senfe of their 8 Debates relative to the [Day V. their being liable to have it canvaffed in this Houfe, they would not be able to give it free- ly : I confefs, Sir, this is the firll Time I ever heard it advanced, that, throv/ing a Weight only into one Scale, was a likelyj Way to hold the Balance in Equilibrio ; what' is fo likely to prevent a corrupt Minifter from wronging his Judgment, and his Confci- ence, to gratify fome unconftitutional Furpofe in the Crown, as the Profpedt of being made anhverable for his Perfidy, and fubjecftcd to an Enquiry of this Houfe ? If, indeed, by free, Gentlemen mean an Exemption from all Ties, that reftrain Men from doing Evil, I will allow, that the Counceilors of the Crown v^^ill be lefs/m', under the Profoed; of a parliamentary Enquiry, than otherwife j but, 1 believe, no Gentleman prefent will be an Advocate forfuch Liberty, either in them, or in any other Member of civil Society j to bring my Reafoning home. Sir, to the Cafe in QuelHon, I fay, that the Chanceliorlhip of the Exchequer is an Employment of the highefl national Importance, that your Predeceifor in that Chair enjoy'd it many Years with the greatefl Honour, that it is now granted for Life, and, that if fuch Grant fliould appear to be contrary to Law, it is fuch an Innovation of our JDay v.] Affairs in Ireland.' 99 our Rights as thofe who advifed it ought to be impeached for : Though I have mentioned only the Poft of Chancellor of the Exchequer, I would not be thought to except that of Mafter of the Rolls, yet, by nam-' ing thofe Offices, I mean nothing perfonally againfl either of the worthy Gentlemen who fill them ; I mean, only, that, what they en^ joy worthily, they fliould enjoy legally j and, that, while we are adorning the Super- ftrud:ure of our Conftitution, we {hould not fubvert the Foundation. I am perfuaded, Sir, that there are many Inftances of Impeach- ment parallel to this ; Lord SomerSy Sir, was impeached for the Advice he gave, with R^- fpedt to the Partition Treaty ; others might eafily be named, but, not to deviate farther from the Point immediately in View, I mud declare myfelf an Advocate for the Motion. The R-t H— ble F— A--. MrS , I am, abfolutely, overwhelmed with Aflo- niflimcnt, to hear any Gentleman talk of im- peaching two of the King's Servants, for giv- ing their Opinion, to the beft of their Judg- ment, upon Oath i I fay, to the beft of their H Judg- I GO Debates relative to the [Day V. Judgment, for fo we muft fuppofe their Opi- nion to be, and are bound to ad: according to that Suppofition 3 the Proof of the con- trary, with Refpedt to Advice, properly fo called, to do, or not to do, any certain A(5l in fufpence, being impoffible, before any Judicature but that of him whofe Preroga- tive it is to fearch the Heart : *' The Tree may be known by its Fruit ;" and, a bad In- tention may, in many Cafes, be certainly, and therefore fairly inferred, from Advice to a bad Adt : The Ad, therefore, advifed to be j done, is the proper Subjed of Examination ; but, if Gentlemen would not fuffer their Zeal to out-run their Judgment, they would fee, that, in the Cafe before us, there is no fuch Thing as Advice ; there is no Ad performed by the Parties, of which we can take Cog- nizance, becaufe there is no Ad performed, concerning which we can poffibly determine, whether, with Refpcd to the Agent, it is good or bad. The Opinion of the Attorney, and Sollicitor-General, Sir, which Gentle- men have affeded to call Advice, is given, upon a Qu^cftion relative to what is, and not to what 7?ia)\ or JJj all be. It relates, Sir, to the Tenor and Effed of Laws now in force among us, and which have long been foj Day v.] y^Jhirs of Ireland^ ioi fo ; and, are the Attorney and Sollicitor-Ge- neral, Sir, anfwerable for what thofe Laws enable the Crown to do ? or, for what the Crown may do, upon a Suppofition that it ex- erts no Power, but fuch as thefe Laws give ? The Attorney, and SoUicitor-General, Sir, are, in this Cafe, anfwerable only for their Inte- grity, and, even for their Integrity, they are anfwerable only to God, as God only can know whether they are, or are not, fincere : As to the Cafe of Lord Somers, I can fcarce perfuade myfelf that Gentlemen are ferious, when they mention it as parallel to that in queftion : Lord Somers advifed the doing a certain A(fl, which was, then, a Contingency. The Attorney and SoUicitor-General advife no Acfl, but merely give an Opinion, with Refped to what is, or is not, right by Laws actually in being. If this is Advice, Sir, a Man may juftly be called an Advifer, who tells another, according to the beft of his Knowledge, the Hour of the Day ; in fhort. Sir, there is as much Difference between the Cafe of Lord Somers^ who advifed the Partition Treaty, and, that of the Attorney and Solli- citor- General, who give their Sentiments, on ft Point of Law, as, between giving a Man my Ppinion of the Weather, and, advifing H 2 Jiim I02 Debates relative to the [DayV. him to take a Journey. Befides, Sir, the conferring any Favour upon an Individual, is a Thing of fo private a Nature — ^ Mr E M — . So private a Nature ! It amazes me, Sir, to hear that Right Honourable Gen- man, who w^as once fo great an Honour and Ornament to the Law, make Ufe of that Ex- preffion ; though the Object of the King's Favour be an Individual, yet the Favour conferred is fuch as interefts the Public in the higheft Degree j it is one of the firft Offices in the Kingdom, and, the Power it confers, may be fo exerted, as to be of the moft fatal Confequence to the Public j but, waving this, Sir, the great Queftion is, whether the giving this Office for Life, be it important, or be it trivial, is not an Infringement of the Law ? If it is not, whatever Danger may be incurred by it, it behoves us to fubmit ; but if it is, I hope no Gentleman here will think of implicitly acquiefcing in it, under a No- tion of its being of a private Nature, Mr. DaV v.] Affairs of Ireland. 103 Mr JV^ H^. MrS , I am under very great Obligations to the honourable Gentleman, who fits on the op- pofite Bench, for confirming my Sentiments, by declaring his own to be the famej and I alTure you, Sir, that it has given me the high- eft Opinion of his Judgment, which I fhall for ever honour and refpeft. My Senti- ment, Sir, which has had the Honour of be- ing thus confirmed, is, that Lawyers ^0, and that they Jhould differ, in Opinions, upon Points of Law 5 I think, alfo, that it is very proper for Lawyers, upon fome Occafions, not only to differ from one another, but from themfelves ; I believe there are many Gen- tlemen prefent, who have found the Advan- tage of it. If all Lawyers were to be of the fame Opinion, what Subjeds could there be for Litigation ? If there were no Subjed:s for Litigation, there would very foon be no Lawyers ; and, if there were no Lawyers, what would People do for Advice, and, to whom could even the Crown have applied upon the great and momentous Occafion that we are now confidering ? And, Sir, if the H 3 iame 104 Debates relative to the [Day V. fame Lawyer's Opinion was always to be the fame in an Afternoon, as in a Morning, to what Purpofe would Recourfe be had to any of thofe cogent Arguments, which are now known to alter it ? all Rhetoric, Sir, the mofl powerful Rhetoric would be ufelefs, and that which could never be ufed would never be acquired y we fhould ftagnate in Stupefadlion and Inactivity, for want of Motives to adt and to think; fo that nothing lefs could happen from ''all Lawyers thinking like each other, and, from the fame Lawyers always thinking alike, than what Gentlemen feem to have in- ferred from much lefs Injury offered to the Law, the total Subverfion of our Conftituti- on, and Ruin of the State. I cannot fuffici- ently admire and commend my worthy Friend's Opinion, that my Brethren of the Law ought always to be confulted, efpecially upon important and public Occafions j it is an Opinion from which great and manifeil Advantages will refult, if it fliould be adopt- ed ; and, I cannot but congratulate with my Brethren, that it is adopted in a very confide- rable Degree already. There are knotty Points, which, even thofe auguft Fti fonages, the Lords, to whom we, in this J j'a-ci Houfe, 'look up with an humble Senfe of our Inferi- ority^ Day v.] Affairs of Ivi'E.LAiiY). 105 ority, may, poffibly, find it fomething diffi- cult to difcufs ; they have, therefore, as it is very fit and becoming that they (liould, the Prime of our Lawyers for their Councellors ; the Lawyer of a Lord, Sir, (hould not cer- tainly be lefs than a Judge ; and, according- -ly, we fee that our learned Judges, feated on the foft Wool Pack, and diftinguifl:ied by the fcarlet Robe, arc always at Hand, in their Houfe, to be occafionally confulted by them, to fave them the Labour of thinking, which is, certainly, beneath the Dignity of Perfona- ges, fo fublime and auguft. If it is fit, as my worthy Friend has advanced, and, as I hearti- ly agree, that Lawyers ought always to be confulted, it is fit that we fliould have our Lawyers too, and, it gives me great Pleafure to fee that we are not without them ; look which Way I will, fome of the learned Body are flill in my Eye ; and, this, being the Cafe, what need have we to look abroad ? It would neither do us, nor our Lawyers Cre- dit, to have Confultations, without Doors, to explain or determine what they are expell- ed to explain, and we are to determine with- in. I humbly conceive. Sir, that this Affair, great, and folemn, and momentous, as it i?, may maintain its Dignity in Parliament, as^ H 4 well io6 Debates relative to the [Day V, well as In a Court of Law ; and be as fkill- fully difcufled, and as wifely determined. As to the laying the written Opinion of the Attorney, and Sollicitor-General, before the Houfc, I confefs, I do not fee what End it will anfwer. I have heard of a mechanical Philofopher, who, having fpent many Years in the Difcovery of the perpetual Motion, at laft invented a Machine, confifting of a great Variety of Wheels, Levers, Pullies, and other Powers, which would draw a Cork out of a Bottle, very nearly as well as a Cork-Screw;- We have the Attorney and Sollicitor-General here with us, and, inftead of the round about Way of addreffing to have the Opinion they wereof fome time ago, laid before us, inftead of ha\ing Recourfe to the Machine with Wheels, and Levers, and Pullies, let us afk them their Opinions at once, and draw the Cork out of the Bottle ourfelves. There are, to be fure, many Objedions againft examining Perfon$ *viva voce. A worthy Gentleman, at the Bar, once told a Judge, that he had no lefs than twenty fuch Objections j and, being allowed to declare them, he faid, that the firft was, that the Man was dead. This was allowed to be fatisfadtory, and the other nineteen were p.ot required. What they were, I cannot take Day V.J u^Jah's of i^EL AND. 107 take upon me to fay, but, Sir, as the Gentle- men, whofe Opinion we defire to know, are not only living, but prefent, and able, and wil- ling, to give the Satisfaction required, 1 do not think any one of the twenty Objedtionsi whatever they were, can be fupported againft them. What their Opinion was, I cannot tell, and, if I could, I might be equally at a Lofs to know what their Opinion is ; as the Gentlemen, therefore, are ready to anfwer for themfelves, I muft, with the greateft Defe^ rence to the Opinion of my worthy Friend, declare myfelf againft the Motion. Jit palled in the Negative, y^ to 32, SATUR- io8 Debates relative to the [Day VI. SATURDAY, 0^.29, 1763. SIXTH DAY. Mr y-^H—H-^, P. S. MrS , AS it is of the higheft Importance, to prevent the Monopoly of Coals in this City, and the Extortion which a Monopoly never fails to produce, and, as an Adt was palTed laft Seffions for this Purpofe, I think it is very proper, that we (hould enquire how far that Adl has been effedual, in order to continue it, or amend it, as fliall appear to be hecefTary ; and, I hope the worthy Gentle- men, who, by that Ad:, were appointed to carry it into Execution, will not think it amifs, that it fhould be the Defire of this Houfe, that they fliould attend, to give what Infor- mation they can upon the Subjedl, and in- form the Houfe, in what manner they have fulfilled the Trufl: repofed in them. I, there- fore, beg leave to move, that a Committee may be appointed to take into Confideration, aq DavVL] ^fairs o/lRELAViD. tog an A(5t to prevent the exceflive Price of Coals, in the City of Dublin^ and, whether the faid A61 is proper to be continued, and, whether any, and what Amendments be neceffary, to be made therein j as alfo, to enquire into the •Condud of the Officers, intruded with the Execution of the faid A6t. It was then moved, that the Call of the Houfe, which, by Order, now ftands for next Monday^ be adjourned till Tuefday^ the Day following. To this, Mr H — F — obje6led, and faid, that he believed it was underftood, that the very interefting and important Quefiion, con- cerning the Peniions, was to come on, when the Call iliould take Place, and, he was both againft deferring it, and lofing a Day ; he obferved, that the Houfe fat but fix Months in two Years, a fpace of Time, which, if every Hour of it was employed, in the Bufi- nefs of the Nation, would belittle enough to do it with the Deliberation and Attention it required, and, that, as a great Encroachment had already been made upon that Time, by late Meetings, and RecelTcs, he was unwillii\^ that no Debates relative to the [Day VL that another Day fhould be loft j he faid, he feared allb, that it might be made a Prece- dent to lop off a fixth Part of the Time, that it was their Intereft, as well as Duty, to im- prove, which was his principal Reafon againft it, and that to the Motion, fimply confidered, he thought it fcarcely worth while to ob- jed. MON. Day VII.] Jf air so/ Ireland, m MONDAY, Nov, i, 1763. SEVENTH DAY. TH E R— t H— ble Mr J5— B— pre- fented a Petition of Henry Cottingham^ and Jafnes Ki?ig, of the City oi Dublin^ Mer- cers, fetting forth the LolTes by them fuftain- cd, by the Journeymen Weavers, and Ap- prentices, of the City and Liberties, by cutting to Pieces many rich and beautiful Silks, and Velvets, then in the Looms of the Petitioners, and the Materials, Tackle, and Silk prepared for carrying on a Silk and Velvet Manufac- ture, all the Property of the Petitioners 5 and that the faid mifguided People (become fen- iible of their Injuftice to the Petitioners, and of the great Injury and Damage they have brought upon themfelves and their Country) have requefted the Petitioners, to improve, and advance the Silk Manufadure Q>i Ireland-, which, the Petitioners, from their heavy Lof- fes, are unable to do without the Aid of Par- liament 3 and praying Relief. ThQ 112 Debates relative to the [Day VII. The Petition being read, Mr B — moved, that it might be referred to the Conlideration of a Committee, and, he was feconded by Mr J— G— , the S. G. as follows : . ■ I Mr S— , As to the Allecrations of the Petition, which the R — t H— ble Member has propofed to ' refer to the Committee, they are certainly the i proper Objcdis of the Enquiry of that Com- * mittee, as they relate particularly to the Pe- titioners, but, as they are of a Nature that deeply affedls the public Peace and Security, repugnant to all Duty, and fubverlive of all Order, they deferve the moft ferious and fo- lemn A'^ention of this Houfe. It appears, by the Petition, that the treafonable Infurrec- tion?, which have fo frequently, of late, inter- rupted the public Tranquillity in remote Parts of the Kingdom, have now reached the Capital J infulted public Juflice on her Seat and fliaken the Government at its Centre j we are now called upon, not only to redrefs a private Wrong, but to aflert the Caufe of an injured Nation : Not to reprefs the Violence ' here, by fome fignal Exertion of Legillative Au- Day VII.] y^ffatrs of Ireia-^d. 113 Authority, would be to encourage it elfe- where, for what will the Infurgents of remote Provinces conclude from the Impunity of thofe at the Metropolis, but, that the Go- vernment, confcious of its own Weaknefs, has furrendered at Difcrction, and given up the common Rights and Privileges, which it could no longer defend, to the Mercy of a diiTolute and outrageous Rabble ? That I may not be thought to aggravate the Evil, by a rhetorical Difplay of imaginary Guilt, and imaginary Confequences, I will take the Li- berty, Sir, to give you a plain Narrative of the Fadt. A confiderable Dealer in this City, who not only carries on a very extenfive home Manufa6lury, but a refpedlable fo- reign Commerce, thought proper to import a large Quantity of French Silks, whether, as Patterns for weaving Silks here, or for Sale, it matters not -, the Importation, with either View, is equally lawful ; upon this, a Num- ber of Manufadurers, taking it into their Heads to prohibit, as a private Injury to them- felves, what the Law allows as a national Be- nefit, ^got together in a riotous Band, armed themfelves in a hoftile Manner, and, profef- fing no lefs than Robbery, and Murder, befet the honeft Trader's Houfe, demanded, that 114 Debates relative to the [Day VIL he fliould be delivered up to death, and, that his Silks, both thofe imported, and in the Loom, fhould be put into their Pofleffi- on 5 when thefe Proceedings were oppofed by a legal Force, under proper Officers, they flew in the Face of Juflice, openly defied Au- thority, and, having overpowered the Magif- trate, and his Affiftants, they periifted in their Violence, to the Affright, and Confufion of the whole City : It has been obferved, that in the Apparatus of Death there is more Terror than in Death itfelf ; thefe Wretches, therefore, that the Murder they were pre- pared to perpetrate, might lofe none of its Effe6l, carried a Coffin in Froceffion to the Houfe of the Victim they had fingled out, fwearing, with horrid Imprecations, that they would carry off his dead Body in it : It hap- pened, however, that he effed:ually fecreted himfelf from their Fury, till it, in fome De- gree, fubfided, but, they forced him to ratify fuch Conditions as they thought fit to di(flate, by the moft folemn Oaths j yet this, what- ever Security they might think it, for his Be- haviour in the Time to come, did not fatisfy their Revenge for what was paft ; they, there- fore, broke violently into his Work-fhop, and War^houfes, cut great Quantities of valuable Day VII.] Affairs of Ikela^b. ii^ and beautiful Silk and Velvet to pieces, broke his Looms, and, either, ftole or deftroyed whatever elfe they could lay their Hands upon. While this was doing, the unhappy Vidim, his Family, and his Friends, were in an Agony -of Confternation and Terror ; the City itfelf was flruck with a Panic, and no Man knew where the Violence might flop. It is a dreadful thing, Sir, for a licentious Rabble to wreft the Sword out of the Hands of Juftice, and to enforce, with Tumult, and Violence, the Execution of Laws which they apprehend to be eluded ; but, it is an Evil that admits of no Aggravation, for them to impofe Laws of their own, in Oppolition to thofe of the State ; and, invade, not only Property, but Life,, when they happen capricioufly, to difapprove the Conduct of thofe, by whom, they do not fo much as pretend any Law has been broken. I fay. Sir, this is a Crime, which, with Re- fpedt to itfelf, can admit of no Aggravation, but with Refped: to the Criminals, it may j if it appears to be committed not by the Ig- norant and Thoughtlefs, but by the Knowing and Confiderate ; not by the Obfcure and Indi- gent, but by thofe, whofe Station and Pro- perty give Influence to their Example j not by thofe who are in a fubordinate and fervile I State, 1 1 6 Debater relathe to the [Day Vlt. State, but by " thofe that are put in Autho- rity over them,'* how does the Guilt accu- mulate upon their Heads, and, of how much feverer Punifliment arc they worthy ? I am forry to fay, Sir, that this Guilt has been ac- cumulated, and this Punifhment deferved in the Cafe before us : My particular Situation, Sir, has acquainted me with the whole of this Tranfaftion, from its firft Caufe, to its laft Effedts, and, I find myfelf, with inex- prefTible Regret, obhged to declare, that it appears with the flrongefl Evidence, upon various Examinations, that the Perfons, who gave rife to it, are no other, than the Mafter and Wardens of the Corporation of Weavers, and, that the poor deluded Wretches, who, adually did the Mifchief, were fpirited up by them, a(5led under their Influence, and were little more than the Inftruments of their Wickednefs j yes. Sir, the Mafter and War- dens of that Corporation, who are intrufted by their Charter, with a very confiderable Power, in confidence that they would ufe it for the Regulation, and good Government of its Members, have, in that very Hall, and in thofe very Seat^, where, they ought to have exerted themfelves "as a Terror to evil doers, and, a Reward to thofe who do well," per- verted I Day VII,] Jf airs of Ireland^ ii^ verted their Inftltutlon, and abufed their Power, to the worft of all Purpofes, by redu- cing the Poor, and the Dependant, to Tu- mult and Rapine, Violence and Murder, the Ruin of Innocence, and the Subverfion of Go- vernment. It appears amongft other Things, that the Mafter of the Corporation actually fent AmbafTadors on behalf of the Infurgents^ to Mr Cottingham^ in order to bring him into a Capitulation with them, and prevail upon him, to give up the offending Silks, to be burnt, in compliance with their Demands, infinuating, that there were no other Means to prevent more fatal Confequences ; upon thefe Fadts I fhall make no Comment, as, I am perfuaded, no Comment is neceffary -, the Expediency of taking the mofl: effectual Mea- fures, to prevent fuch rebellious Infurredtions, for the future, is felf-evident, as they ftrike, I had almofl: faid, at the very Exiilence of our Conftitution ; if I have trefpaffed long upon your Time, by an Endeavour to point out the Evils, that call aloud for a Remedy, in their moft ftriking Colours, I flatter myfelf, that I (hall be excufed, without an Apology, as I had no View in difplaying the Malignancy of the Difeafe, but, that the Method of Cure might be vigorous and fpeedy. As the End I 2 of T i8 Debates relathe to the [Day VII. of War is Peace, (o the End of Juftice is Mer- cy : Whatever Punifhment deters from Vice, prevents Mifery j and, I am fure, I cannot more eflTcdiually exert my Benevo- lence, than by calling out the Terrors of the Law, againft Pradtices which cut off Reward from Labour, and Security from Innocence ; which, corrupt Poverty into Wickednefs, and endanger the Vitals of the Conftitution, by fpreading a Gangrene in its Members. The R— t H— ble P— A— then got up, and exprelTed his perfedl Agreement with the learned and worthy Member that fpoke laft, with Refpe6t to the Neceflity of putting a flop, immediately, to the unbounded Licen- tioufnefs of the lower Clafs of People j a Li- centioufnefs, which, he obferved, was fo dif- ferent from the true Spirit of Liberty, that it was impoffible they fhould fubfift together ; he faid, alfo, that he could not, but greatly admire his pathetic, and animated Defcription of the Enormities of which he complained, and the various DiftrefTes, which they pro- duced : But, he faid, he hoped to be excuf- ed, for differing a little from him, as he could not lay the Riot, wholly, to the Chaige of his BrethreUy the Weavers ; (this caufed a great Laugh, Dav Vri.] j^jYiirs of Ireland, ug Laugh, as he had juft been complimented with the Freedom of their Company) but, was rather of Opinion, that it was raifed, and carried on, by their Journeymen and Appren- tices ; efpecially, as they frequently entered into Combinations agai ifl their Mafters them- felves, demanding, in a clamorous and tu- multous Manner, fometimes, the raifing their Wages, and, fometimes, the fhortening their Hours of Work. Mr y- H— ^-, P. S. MrS , - I rife up to give my Opinion, that the Allegations of the Petition are an Objedl high- ly worthy of a parliamentary Enquiry ; and, that as two worthy Members of Society have greatly, and moft unjuftly, fuffered by the il- legal Proceedings of an enraged Mob, to the great Injury of a Manufadure, which they were carrying on, very much for the Benefit of the Nation, it is but juft, that they fliould be redreired,as well, upon their own Account, as upon that of the Public ; I was alfo, the more ready to rife, on this Occafion, as, I over heard fome Gentlemen near me, make I 3 an 120 Debates relative to the [Day VJI, an Obje<5tion to the Petition, which it is in my Power to remove j they faid, that a Peti^ tion of this Kind was a Novelty, andunfup- ported by Precedent; but this is by no means the Fad, for, I remember, among other Inftances, a parallel Cafe, that happened in a neighbouring Kingdom, in the Year 171 5 ; At that Time there were great Riots among the Woollen Manufadurers, and great Da- mage was done, upon which the Sufferers applied to Parliament, and a Compenfation was allowed them of above five thoufand Pounds ; and, now, that my Endeavours may not be wanting, to continue the good Hu- mour, which was raifed by the worthy Gen- tleman who fpoke laft, and, that Gentlemen may have their laugh out, which, my getting up interrupted, I muft fay, that the Weavers are my Brethren too, and that, I am very wil- ling to hope, they are not fo culpable as the worthy Gentleman, who feconded the Mo- tion, feems to think them ; I am perfuaded, that he fpeaks from the Convidion he has received by the Examination, but, perhaps, he has feen the Examinations only of one Side, and that Story which is good till ano- ther is told, is not always fo afterwards. As So the Mailer and Wardpns of the Company, I have Day VII.] Affairs of Ireland, i2r I have frequently converfed with them upon the Subject ; and, if they are not the greatefl: Hypocrites, as well as the wickedefl: Men in the World, they are wholly Innocent in this Affair ; for they have afferted their Innocence with the mofl folemn and repeated Aflevera- tions. Mr 7— G— , S. G. in a fhort Reply, gave fome farther Reafons, why he believed the Mafter and Wardens of the Corporation, to have been effentially, and originally, concern- ed in the Riot : And Mr C — C — , made a (hort Speech, with a View to palliate what had been advanced againfl the Mafter Wea- vers, and to throw the whole Blame upon their Journeymen. 1 4 TUBS. 122 Debates relative to the [Day VIII. TUESDAY, Nov. 2, 1763. EIGHTH DAY. The R-t H— ble F- A—. MrS — ^, I Have, in my Hand, a Petition, figned by the Mayor, Corporation, and principal Inhabitants of the City of hondonderry ; it has always been held. Sir, that the rewarding eminent Merit, in particulars, is a general Benefit, by flimulating others to Emulation, and exciting them to the fame Defert, by hopes of the fame Advantage. I, therefore, flatter myfelf, that I fhall not be thought un- neceflarily to take up your Time, by faying a few Words in favour of your prefent Peti- tioners. If this Nation had been fo happy as to have its Hiftory written by any Au- thor of Abilities equal to the Work, the Adlions of the Citizens of Derry^ would have furnrflied its moft fhining Paffages; PafTages, which would have embellillied the moft il- luftrious Hifiory, 'and highly honoured the moft heroic Nation. The want of fuch Hif- torians. DayVUI.] Affairs of Ireland. 123 torians, is, indeed, the lefs to be regretted, as we have the moft authentic Records of fuch Loyalty, Magnanimity, and public Spirit, in that antient, proteftant, and unconquered City, as would {hake the Credit of any Hiflorian, however eminent for Impartiality and Truth, if they depended merely upon his Teftimony. The Records I mean, Sir, are the Journals of this Houfe, and of the Commons in Eng- la?id J you will there find the Citizens ofDer- rjy fupporting the Laws, the Religion, and the Liberty of their Country, in defiance ofall the Miferies, that the Cruelty of War, aggra- vated by the fanguinary Rage of Bigotry, and Superftition, could bring upon them ; to fay, that they gave their Lives a Ranfom for the Bleffings, which their Pofterity enjoy, is to wrong them of more than half their Praife, if we do not confider the Manner, in which it was paid ; the Pompof War,and the Sound of the Trumpet, awake in almoft every Mind a fudden and tumultuous Courage, which, rather overlooks Danger, than defies it ; and, rather fufpends our Attention to Life, than reconciles us to the Lofs of it ; the Soldier ruflies forward with Impetuoiity, and, when he hears the Thunder of the Battle, can glory in the Elation of his Mind ; but when Death ap- 124 Debates relative to the [Day VIII. approaches, with a flow and filent Pace, when he is feen at leifure, and, contemplat- ed in all his Terrors, the Spirits fhrink back to the Heart, the Love of Fame, and, even the Hope of Heaven is chilled within us, and the Man at once prevails, not over the Hero only, but the Saint. Of the few, that, in this Hour of Horror, have furmounted the Senfe of their own Condition, who is he that has looked with the fame Equanimity upon the Partner of his Fortune, and the Pledges of his Love ? When a Wife, or a Child, has been a Hoftage, and the Tyrant's Dagger has been lifted to their Breaft, how has the Hero and the Patriot melted in the Hufband and the Father! By what Name, then, fhall we dif- tinguifh the Virtue of the Citizens of Derry, who did not rufh upon Death for their Country, in the momentary Ardor of fudden Conteft, in the Pomp and Tumult of the Field of Bat- tle, but waited his deliberate, though irrefifta- ble approach, (liut up within their own Walls, in the gloomy Receffes of Sicknefs and Famine j and who, while they felt the Pangs of Hunger, undermining Life in themfelves, beheld, alfo, its deftrudive Influence in thofe whofe Lives were ftill dearer than their own ; who heard the faltering Voice of helplefs In- fancy Day VIII.] Affairs of IscELA^n, 125 fancy complain, till the Sounds, at laft, died upon the Tongue ; and, who faw the languid Eye of fainting Beauty exprefs what no Lan- guage could utter, till it was clofed in Death I In this Trial to (land firm, in this Conflict to be more than Conquerors, was it not, alfo, to be more than Men ! To have been the Birth-Place, or the Refidence of one fuch Hero, would have fired a thoufand Cities with Envy, and have rendered the meanefl Hamlet illuftrious for everj what, then, is JDerry^ whofe whole Inhabitants were anima^ ted by this divine Virtue, like a common Soul ! Nor is it ftrange, that their Pofterity Should be ftill diftinguidied by the fame Spi- rit J for, how is it poffible they fliould hear the Recital of thefe Wonders, and enjoy the Benefits they procured, without glowing at once with Gratitude and Emulation : Their Virtue, from whatever Caufe, has been long hereditary already. In the Civil Wars of 1 64 1, Derry was the impregnable City, which baffled all the Force of the Rebels, to the Encouragement and Support of the whole North of Ireland. In the glorious Revoluti- on of 1688, a Crifis, perhaps, the mofl im- portant that ever happened in any Age, or a- py Country, Derry flood forth the Bulwark .of 126 Debates relative to the [Day VIII. of the Laws, Religion, and Liberty, of this Nation ; to Derry we all owe, in a great Meafurc, the ample and peaceable Pofleffion of them in which we are happy at this Day ; and, how Derry behaved, daring the late In- furrecflions, we need not be told. A Series of Acknowledgments and Thanks, recorded in the Journals of this Houfe, from its firft Inftitution, to the prefent Time, are, at once, the moft authentic Teftimony of the diftin- guiihed Merit of this City, and its moft glori- ous and permanent Reward. But, though all private Encomium may be precluded, as an Honour to Derry ^ it may, perhaps, be indul- ged as a Pleafure to me, and, let me add, to thofe, alfo, before whom I fpeak ; for, I am confident, that, among all who hear me, there is not one, who would not, from the fame Motive, and, with the fame Pleafure, have fpoken of her Citizens as I have done, except where my Language has been inadequate to my Ideas, and there, I am confident, they would have fupplied the Defed:. As to the Allegation, and the Prayer of the Petition, though, as I obferved, it is a general Benefit to reward Merit, yet, I muft do my Confti- tuents this farther Juftice to fay, that, if what they folicit, had not, exclufive of this Princi- ple, Day VIIL] A fairs of Ireland. 127 pie, been a national Advantage, they would not have made it the Object of their Solicita- tion ; that Modefty and Moderation, vi^hich are the infeperable Concomitants of Merit, and that Uprightnefs, and Generofity of Mind, which would difdain to requeft the Applica- tion of any Part of the public Treafure to a private Ufe, would have prevented them. The Trade of the City of Derry^ Sir, is, within thefe few Years, greatly increafed, with Refped to Imports and Exports ; the fingle Article of the Linen Manufadure, amounts to no lefs than 200,000/. per Ann. There are,be- longing to this Port, four and twenty Ships, from two hundred to three hundred Tons burthen, and, I believe, there are very few other Ports, in the Kingdom, which employ as many ; but the Water is too (hallow, even at high Tide, to float thefe VelTels to the Quay j the River, alio, is fo narrow, as to render the Navigation very inconvenient, fo that the Merchants of Derry are obliged to pay eight Pence a Ton for Lighterage of all Goods, both in and out, and are conliderable Suffer- ers by Rilque, Damage, and Delay. To render this Part of the River more commo- dious, and to deepen the Channel, will re- quire about 1,600/. by the beft Computation that \ 128 Debates reJathe to the [Day VIII'. that can be made j the Sum is, comparative- ly, very fmall, and the Advantage will be great, not only to Derry\ but to the Nation in general ; for every Encouragement given to Trade, is like an Addition of vital Strength to the Heart, which is immediately difFufcd to the remoteft Parts of the Body. I, there- fore, pray, that this Petition may be read. The Petition was read accordingly, to the Purport as fet forth above, and, it was order- ed to be referred to a Committee ; upon which a Committee was appointed accord- ingly. A Petition of Margaret AJJ:ii'orth^ Widow oi 'Thomas Afiworth^ late of Den?iybrook^ in the County of the City of Dublin, Linnen, Cotton, Callico, and Paper Printer, deceafed > praying Aid to enable her to carry on thofe Manufad:ures, was prefented^ and read. Mr T— M— then moved, that it might be referred to a Committee. Mr Day VIII.] Affairs of Ir-ela^d. 129 Mr £- S- P-^. MrS , I find that vaft Numbers of People have come from every Part of the Kingdom, with Petitions of this Kind, praying parliamentary Aid to carry on different Manufactures ; and, as it would be imprudent to detain them from their Bufinefs, and cruel to keep them in Suf- pence, it being impoffible to gratify half of them, I think, it is fit we fhould know the Senfe of the Houfe with Refpe6t to Petitions, of this Kind in general : The granting of Money, by Parliament, on thefe Occafions, is a Praftice but of late Years ; however, I con- fefs, that I was one of thofe who thought it for the Benefit of Trade, by improving vari- ous Manufactures into greater Degrees of Perfection ; but Experience, Sir, from which there can be no Appeal, has, at length, con- vinced me that I was miftaken, and, that it has produced an EffeCt direCtly oppofite to that which was intended ; in fome Inftances it has put an End to the very Manufacture it was fuppofed to encourage, and, in others, it has favoured a Monopoly, and reprefix:d the Indufiry J30 Debates relative to the [Day VIII. Induftry of many, by giving to a few an un- due Superiority over them, which muft al- ways be the Cafe, when large Sums of Mo- ney are poured into the Hands of particular Perfons ; I mean large, with Refpedl to the Circumftances of thofe who receive them, and fuch have been the fmalleft that Parliament has thought fit to grant. I am very fenfible. Sir, that Manufacturers {hould be encoura- ged by all poiTible Means, and, that no Ob- ject can be more worthy either of the Atten- tion, or the Bounty, of Parliament. It is im- pofiible that many fhould live, where few can be employed j it is by Labour, only, that the Inhabitants of a civilized Country c.n fubfift J and it is, therefore, impoffible, that any civilized Country fliould be popu- lous, where there is little to do. As no Country, that is not populous, can be either flourifliing or ftrong, and, as it is manifeftly ' the Intereft of every Individual, that the Country, in which he lives, fliould be both, it follows, that the Encouragement of Manu- tadures, by which, alone, Multitudes can be employed, is elTential to the Profperity, if not to the very Subfiftence of the State. Upon this Principle, therefore, inftead of granting large Sums, to particular Perfons, to difpofe of as \ bAY VIII.] j^ffalrs of Ireland. 131 as they pleafe, I think we fhould apply them in hberal Premiums, for different Manufac- tures, as they are brought to Market, in Pro- portion to their ^Quantity and Excellence 5 this would be an univerfal Encouragement, and would dlffufe an univerfal Spirit of Dili- gence and Emulation, as every Man would afpire to gain what was offered, not to this, or the other Individual, but to whomfoever fhould excel. I have, myfelf, within this few Days, had many Petitions of the fame Kind, with that now offered, put into my Hand, all which I refufed to prefent, and, fhall give it as my Opinion, that no more fhould be received, and that one only fhould lie upon the Table, to determine the Fate of the refl. Mr T — M— anfwered, that other Petiti- bns, of the fame Kind, had been introduced, without being objecfted to ; that he thought it very hard his fhould be the firfl that was fefufed, and, that he did not fee why he fhould not have his JoSb done as well as another. Mr £ — S — P — , in reply, declared, up- 6n his Honour, that this was the firfl Petiti- on of the Kind that he had heard introduced, K and. I 1 3 2 Debatei relative to the [Day VIII. and, that if he had been prefent, when others were introduced, he would have objeded to them J that he had the higheft Refpedl for the honourable Member who introduced this, and, he was fo far from meaning any Thing like a perfonal Oppofition, that if he could bring himfelf to fubmit to do a Jobb at all, he would do his Jobb as loon as any Man's. The Qoeftion being put, that the faid Peti- tion be referred to a Committee, it was car- ried in the Affirmative, by 69 againft z^^ ; and a Committee was appointed accordingly. Mr£— ^-P-. Mr S , As I fliall always be difpofed to fubmit my private Judgment to that of thisHoufe, Icon- elude, that I had made a wrong Determina- tion, as I fee the Majority is againft me, and fliall, therefore, prefent many Petitions, v/hich have been offered me, and which I fliould, otherwife, have refufed. But, not- withftanding the Divifion for reading this Pe- tition, I am perfuaded that many Gentlemen, who divided for it, mufl be extremely forry to fee the pubHc Money lavifhed away in JOBBS, Day VIII.] j^ffairs of Ireland. 133 JoBES, which might be othervvife employed to public Advantage : I am very forry that I happened not to be prefent when the firfl Petition of this Kind was introduced, that I might have objeded againft it ; but, I hope, fome Method will ftill be found to fignify the Difinclination which, I am fure, the Houfe has to thefe Applications. Dr C— £— . Mr S , I do not rife up to oppofe the worthy Gentleman, who made the Motion with Re- fpeftto the Petition, for, I believe, the utmoft that he requires, is, that it fhould be referred to a Committee, for them to enquire into the Merits, and report to the Houfe ; but I am very much againft Petitions of this Kind, in general, and fo, I hope, every Gentleman will be, who recollects the vaft Sums that have been granted upon them, and the U{q that has been made of the Money. I re- member, a confiderable Sum was given lail; Seffions to the Proprietor of a Glafs-Houfe on the Strand, who, the Moment he got it, inftcad of fetting himfclf to blow Bottles, fet •his Houfe on Fire, blew it up, and then went K. 2 about 134 Debates relative to the [Day VII t about his Bufinefs. Large Sums were alfo given to the Cambric Manufadory, and, the next Thing we heard of it, was, that the Proprietors were Bankrupts. One Delamain got Money for making Rhone Ware, and the Work has been difcontinued from that Time to this. The Parliament has, alfo, difpofed of large Sums, for the like Purpofes, by the Dublin Society ; and, I think, fome Enquiry ihould be made, whether the Money, with the Difpofal of which they have been entruft- ed, has turned to a better Account than what we diflributed ourftlves. But an Incident has happened, Sir, in this Debate, much more alarming than the Mifapplication of Money granted to Manufadurers 3 a Word has been ufed as a Denifon of this Houfe, which is a Difgrace to Language, as it exprefles what cannot exifl without difgracing human Na- ture, by the moft flagitious Sacrifice of pub- he to private Intereft, under a Pretence of Patriotifm, and Attention, to National Advan- tages. I have heard, Sir, the Word Jobb, and, I have heard it ufed as an avowed Name for a Meafpre recommended to Parliament, under Colour of encouraging a Manufacture : Do Gentlemen, then, acknowledge the bring- ing in, and foliciting Jobbs ? and, do tlie Mem- DavVIIL] Affairs of Iri.1. Ann, 135 Members of this Houfe, profelTedly, do JoBBS for one another, inflead of fulfilling the Truft repofed in them by their Conftitu- ents, and tranfadting the Bufinefs of the Na- tion ! I am now, unfortunately, feated be- tween two Gentlemen who have banded the Word JoBB from one to another in a Senle, and Manner, which makes it juflly to be ap- prehended, that we have loft not only Virtue, but Shame j that we have done Evil till we have miftaken it for Good. One afks, " Why {hould not I have my Jobb done, as well as another ?" he is anfwered, from the oppofite Side of the Houfe, " If you will do my JoBBs, I will do yours." The very Air, 3ir, that conveys fuch Sounds, is contaminat- ed, and it has crolTed me till it has made me fick ) the Word Jobb is not only an odious, but a peftilential Monofyllable, and, I moft iincerely hope, that 1 {hall never again hear it mentioned in this Houfe, without the mofl opprobrious Epithets that can poflibly be in- vented, as none can fufficiently exprefs its Turpitude and Malignity *. K 3 Mr * Though Dr L — 's Obfervations were juft, with Rc- fpecl to Mr AI—^ yet he has miftaken Mr P — ; for 136 Debates relathe to the [Day VIII. Mr i?— F—. MrS , As I perceive many Gentlemen have taken the Liberty to deviate, confiderably, from the Matter in Debate, I hope I may be indulged in a fmall Digreffion, with Refpedl to a cer- tain Monofy liable, which has greatly affedled a Gentleman at the other End of the Houfe ; and, he himfelf has declared, has even made him fick : This Monofyllable, Sir, is the Name of a certain illegitimate Child, oi Pub- lick Spirit^ whom the World has agreed to call JoBB. He is well known in this Houfe, and, I am forry to fay, has not been ill receiv- ed in it ; permit me, therefore, to give fome ferther Account of his Defcent and Family, his Character and Qualifications. I have al- ready obferved, that his Mother is Fublick Spirit ; this Lady, though fhe is defervedly efreemed for many great and good Qualities, Mr P — did not fay, if Mr M— would do his Jobbs, he would do Mr M—-S \ but, that if he could fubmit to do a Jo3R at all, he would as foon do it for Mr M-— as for any Man. is Day VIII.] Jfmrs of Ireland. 137 is known to have a Freedom cf Principle^ and a Warmth of Confiitiition^ which, con- curring with Opportunity, fpecious Preten- ces, and folemn AiTurances, have frequently fubverted her Chaftity, and feduced her to the Embraces of the meaneft and the moft unworthy Wretches in the World : Among thefe was Self- Inter ejfy by whom Publick Spirit has a numerous Ifliie, diftinguifhed by the Name of Jobb ; how they came to be fo called I fhall not at prefent enquire, but, it is certain, that, as to their outward Appearance, they greatly refemble their Mother, and that, in their Principles and Difpofitions, they are altogether like their Father. Their Refem- blance to Public Spirit has enabled them to do much Mifchief, by executing the Projeds of Private Liter e/i ; they have been difper- fed all over the World, and have ad:ed in e- very Sphere. They have eftabliflied great Empires, and brought them to Deftru6lion ; they have placed Monarchs upon a Throne, and baniflied them to a Defcrt ; they have appeared in the Character of Alexanders^ Boiirbof2Sy and Ravilliacs : They have been adtive both in Church and State, from the Minifter to the Contra(5lor, from the Archbi- K 4 fhop 138 Debates relative to the [Day VIII. fhop to the Curate, from the Judge to the Newgate Sollicitor, from the Commander in Chief to the Quarter Mafter, from the Court Phyfician to the Itinerant Quack j they have always flourifhed in Proportion to the Wealth and Generofity of the Country, where they have redded j and, though this Country can- not boafl to have been vifited by many of the Offspring, which Public Spirit has born to a worthy Father, yet many of the Jobbs, her Children, by Self -Liter ejl, have come over hither from a neighbouring Kingdom, and have, with great Succefs, played, both upon our Virtues and our Weaknefs : They have flattered us, by telling us, that we were Rich ; and, they have amufed us, by pretending to encreafe our Riches > they have applauded pur Generofity ; and, to give us an Opportu- nity of (hewing, that we have deferved the Complement, have been very free in foliciting Favours ; this Opportunity we have leldom failed to improve -, we have lavished upon them whatever they required ; they, in re- turn have gone off with their Booty, exulting in their own Cunning, and defpifing our Sim- plicity. DayVIII.] JfairsoflRELAiiD. 139 One of this hopeful Progeny, who hap- pened to be born on this Side of the Water, about ten Years ago, found a Hoard of Money, which, as is a common Cafe, betrayed him into ftrange Inconfiftencies, fo that fome Per- fons did not fcruple to fay, he was befide himfelf ; it was his Cuftom, for fome time afterwards, to fally forth, attended by Drum- mers and Trumpeters, and a licentious? and diforderly Rabble, crying out, in a difmal and frantic Tone, O ! my Country ! my bleeding Country ! The little Boys ran away, crying and frighted, and the Women fell into fits ; but, at laft, he fat down with his AlTo- ciates about him, treated them with Whlfl<:y, and Tobacco, till they could neither fee, fpeak, nor ftir j and, declared, that Irelafid was the happieft Country in the World, that all Minifters were Patriots, and, attended to nothing but eftablifhing Liberty, and reward- ing Merit *, Some * In the Year 1753, it was difcovered, that there was a very large Sum in the Treafury unapplied, and, for which, there was no call ; many Pcrlbns afFcdted ^reat Fears, that it would be unconftitutionally difpofed of. 140 Debates relative to the [Day VIII. Some of the Family of the Jobbs^ are flill among us, and endeavour to conceal them- felves under borrowed Names, and Charac- ters J but it is rnofl certainly the Duty, and, I moft fincerely hope, the Inclination, of every Member, of this auguft AlTembly to deted:, and banifli them for ever. That they may be the more eadly difco- vered, I fliall mention feveral particular Cha- rade rift ics, which, by a penetrating Eye, may be feen through all their Difguifes. They very often aiTume their Mother's Name, and pretend, that their Father was Integrity, a Gentleman of very honourable Defcent, who, having of late Times, been much negledted, by Perfons of Power and Interefl, has fallen into Misfortunes, and been obliged to play at Hide and Seek, fo that having been long in Obfcurity, nobody knows where he is. This Pretence, frequently procures them great Po- of. An Oppofition againft the Court was made, by a numerous Party, but, fomc time afterwards, finding themfelves miftaken, they accepted of Court Preferment, and tacitly acquiefced in Court Meafures, pularity. Day VIII.] 4fdirs of Ireland. 141 pularity, of which they are very fond ; but, the Failacy may eafily be difcovered, by at- tending to their Conduct, for that will al- ways demonftrate their Relation to Self Inte^ refii from whofe Principles alone it proceeds. They fometimes afted: a violent PaiTion for cultivating the Arts of Peace, for the Im- provement of Trade, Shipping, Manufactures, high Roads, and Bridges 5 at other Times, they are very bufy in Preparations for War, in erecting and repairing Fortifications, Ram- parts, and Barracks ; and, of late, they have condefcended to amuie themfelves with great Guns, Haubitzers, and Mortars ; with Pow- der, and Ball, and Fire, and Smoke j Vv^ith warlike Peace, and peaceful War; but their true Character will always be difcovered, by a Dilatorinefs and Inconfiftency of Condud:, in whatever they undertake. They are al- ways zealous and in hafte to begin a Work, but they do not care how long it is in Hand, and take care, to do all in their Power to pre- vent its being finiflied. They will alfo be found, frequently, to begin their Undertaking at the wrong End ; for they have been feen very bufy in preparing Implements of War, for the Defence of Fortifications, before there were any Fortifications to defend. Their Pailion i42 Debates relative to the [Day VIII. Paffion for Land-Works is not more confpi- cuous than for JVafer-Works, Some time ago, they were exerting all their Influence to make Inroads into the Sea ; they were build- ing Keys, and projeding Piers ; crying to the Ocean " hitherto ilialt thou come, and here fhall thy proud Waves be flayed;" but, at prefent, they feem to take greater delight in the more gentle and innocent Entertainment of tracing the Meandering of Canals, and Ri- vers, through Meads and Lawns, from one great City to another. But neither is Land nor Water fufficient to circumfcribe their Projedls ; they mount the Air, and, pretend to erect Caftles, for the Accommodation of thofe that fhall undertake a Journey to the Moon -f-. As to the Places where they are to be found, they love good Company, and afTociate much with thofe, in whom you Gentlemen, place great Confidence ; they are found at the Treafury Board, the Linnen Board, the Bar- rack Board, and, in fliort, at every other t Alluding to the impradical Schemes, for which. Money has been obtained, by Cabal and Private Inte- feft. Board ; Day VIII.] j^jfairs of Ireland. 14^ Board ; nor are they ever to be mifTed at Grand Juries, or Societies that have the Difpofal of Money. It has been faid , by fome that they have a necromantic Pov^er, v^'hich, others fuppofe to have been long fince loft, and, which, fome modern Sceptics fuppofe never to have exif- ted : It is infinuated, that they may, for ought we know to the contrary, be, at this Moment floating in the Air, within this fa- cred Rotunda j that they may appear to fome among us, like the Dagger of Macbeth^ with the Handle towards us -, but, let none of us fay to it, as he did, " come, let me clutch thee." Let us fufpeft the Appearance of every " queftionable Shape," and, if any JoBBS approach in their own, whether they attempt to flip in at the back Door, to pop from behind the Arras, or to fkulk privately in it ; or whether, hoping to pafs unfufped:ed, by appearing to have nothing to fear, they may boldly endeavour to enter in front, let us unite at once, to feize, and to expel them, as Pefts of Society, and Traitors, to the State, with all the Ignominy and Contempt that is their due. The R— t H-ble Mr B— M-, moved, that the Committee appointed to conlider the Peti- 144 Debates relative to the [Day VIII. Petition, of Mary A/hivorth, fhould fit in the Houfe, and, that it fliould take into Con- lideration all the Petitions of the fame Kind, praying Encouragement, for carrying on Arts and Manufadlures. Some other Member, alfo moved, that this Committee fliould always fit in the Houfe, and, not as ufual, in the Speaker's Chamber ; in Order that the Tranfadtions might be the more publicly known, becaufe, it fometimes happened that three or four Friends of the Party got together, and, agreed to juft what they pleafed j and, becaufe, the Houfe feldom thought fit to differ from .their Committee ; it was added, that the more public the In- quiry into the Utility of allotting the publick Money to particular Purpofes was made the better. The H— -ble £■— 5—, reprefented, that very great Inconveniency, and Danger, fre- quently rofe, to the Subjedis of this King- dom, from the Negled: of the Mafters of Ships trading to England, who, neither pro-. vided a proper Number of Hands, to navigate the Veffel, nor a fufficient Quantity of Ne- ceflaries, to ferve the Purpofes of Life, if the Ship Day VIII.] 4fairs of Ireland. 145 Ship happened to be a few Days longer in her Voyage than ufual, by bad Weather, which, frequently drove her out of her Courfe ; particularly. Candles and frefh Wa- ter 'j he faid, that, he was himfelf, a Paffen- ger, very lately, on board the Lively^ and, that the Danger, and Diftrefs, which he, and the reft of the PafTengers fuffered, by the Want of thofe Articles was inexpreffible; that the Terror they felt from the Danger of the Storm was nothing in comparifon of their fuffering for want of Water, and their dread of perifliing by Thirft ; he, therefore, . prayed that he might have leave to bring in the Heads of a Bill, to prevent fuch Evils for the future. » " Ordered, that leave be given, to bring in Heads of a Bill, for the better PvCgulation of fuch Ships as Trade between the Kingdom of Jrela7id, and that of Great Britain ; and, for making it penal, for the Maftcrs and Commanders of fuch VelTels, to proceed to Sea, without a fuiiicient Number of able Sea-men, to navigate them, and a compe- tency of Bread, Water, and Candles, for the Number of PailenG;ers and Hands on Board, allowing, even for the Chance of a tedious Palfage. WED- 146 Debates relathe to the [Day IX. WEDNESDAY, A7ci;. 3^, 1763. NINTH DAY. THERE was a Meeting of the Com- mittee of Accounts, of which Mr y — B — , Senior, was Chairman, when there arofe the following Debate : The R— t H— ble Mr P— T— , the A. G. MrS ■'-, I think it my Duty to propofe, that the Fadts, which I (hall now lay before you, be made part of your Report to the Houfe : The Fadts are thefe : In the Year 1729, it was found, that the ufual Supplies had not been fuf- ficient to anfwer the Exigencies of Govern- ment J to make good the Deficiency, there- fore, 200,000/. was raifed, by Parliament,' in the fubfequent Seffions, after the ufual Manner : When this Sum came to be ac- counted for, in the Year 173 1, the Publick got Credit for Six-pence in the Pound out of it, fuch a Deduction being made from all publick Money, when it goes out of the Trea- fury. Day IX.] jifairs of Ireland. 147 fury. This Dedudion of Six-pence in the Pound, from the Hereditary Revenue, is paid as a Fee or Perquifite to the Vice Treafurer 5 but, the Deduction of Six-pence in the Pound, from the Additional Duties, has always been made an additional Aid to Government, and the Treafury has been made Debtor for it accordingly. The public Accounts were pafled the fame Year, and, this faving of Six- pence in the Pound, upon the 200,000 /. ad- ditional Duty, was voted and allowed as an Aid to Government, nor did the Vice Trea- furer pretend to lay any Claim to it. The fame Year, it was alfo found Necef- fary, to raife the farther additional Duty of 100,000/. and this Sum being accounted for in the Year 1733, the faving of Six-pence a Pound upon it, like that, upon the other 200,000/. was placed as a farther Aid, and, this has been the conftant Pradiice, and vot- ed as fuch from Seffions to Seffions, In the Year 1759, the Sum of 150,000 /. was raifed, and a Vote of Credit given for 200,000 /. more : This 200,000 /. was raif- ed in the fubfequent Year, and the Deputy Vice-Treafurer thought proper to pay the L Pe. 148 Debates relative to the [Day IX. Dedudlion of Six-pence in the Pound out of it, to the Vice-Treafurer, inflead of retaining it in his Hands, as a farther Aid to Govern- ^ ment. In the Year 1761, the public Accounts were paiTed, and, by fome Miftake, the Pay- ment of the Six-pence in the Pound, upon 200,000/. being the Sum of 5,000/. to the Vice Treafurer, was allowed, and the Deputy Vice Treafurer was not, as ufual, made aci countable for it as an Aid to Government. Sometime afterwards, however, I applied to the Deputy- Vice-Treafurer, and told him, that I did not think him fafe, in having paid' the 5,000 /. to the Vice Treafurer, it being my Opinion, that, as the 200,000/. froi which it was a Dedudtion, had been raifed upoi a Vote of Credit, and was an additional Duty^ the Poundage ought to have been made faving to the Government, as all Poundage upon additional Duties had adtually been, in all preceding Times, and, that, though the Accounts had been pafTed by Parliament, yet they might be over-hauled, and, he might be made Debtor to the Treafury, for the Money, and Day IX.] Affairs of IwE-LK^Tt, 149 and obliged to pay it. This, I thought it my Duty, as a Servant of the Crown, to do ; and the Deputy-Vice-Treafurer was fo fenfihie of the Weight of what I faid, that he thought proper to make Stoppages for his own Indemnification of two Thirds of the Sum he had paid, from a Ballance in his Hands, due to two Vice-Treafurers, and he would have flopped the other Third, from a third Vice-Treafurer, but, he being out of Office, the Deputy had no Ballance due to him in his Hands j to this Gen- tleman, however, who, was then in England^ he wrote a Letter, ftating the Fad:, and re- lating my Opinion -, upon this, the Vice Treafurers took an Opinion in that Kingdom, and filed a Bill in Chancery againfl the De- puty, in order to recover the Money he had flopped ; to this Bill they made me, as A — ^ G— , a Party, and I freely confefs, that hi- therto I have put in no Anfwer to it, for, as the Queftion litigated, relates to the Difpofal of public Money, I thought the Parliament had the befl Right to determine it. L % The J 50 Debates relative to the [Day IX, The R-t H-ble F— A—, Mr S , I am very fbrry to fay, that, I cannot but draw a Conclafion, diredily oppofite to that of the worthy Gentleman who fpoke laftJ from the very fame Premifes j for, it appears to me, from the whole of what he has faid, that it would be in thehigheft Degree impro- per, and unbecoming, for the Houfe, to inter-l fere in the Queftion, which he would recom- mend to its determination. The honourable Gentleman, has very freely confefTed, that h( has obflrudted the common Courfe of Juf-* tice, by a wilful and intended delay ; but, Ihall we take Advantage of fuch delay, tc preclude the Determination of a Court, t< which the Parties have regularly appealed Does it become us to wreft a Suit out of the' Hands of the Court of Chancery, or to fore- judge a Caufe, that has been properly brought before it ? Belides, Sir, the very Pretence for taking this Affair out of the Jurifdidion, into which it is properly brought, is fallacious. The Vice-Treafurer, by Virtue of the Patent, which he holds under the Sandion of the Laws Day IX.] Affairs of Ireland. i^i Laws of this Kingdom, is intitled to a Poun- dage of Six-pence in twenty Shillings, out of all Monies paid out of theTreafury, if there is not an exprels Refolution of this Houfc to the contrary ; now, it is not pretended, that there was a Refolution of the Houfe againft it, with Refpecfl to the Sum in Queftion, and indeed, the contrary appears by inconteftible Evidence, for the Poundage has adlually been allowed by the Houfe, and no Man can fup- pofe the Houfe would allow a Dedudlion, that had been made contrary to its exprefs Refo- lution. But, as there has been no Refolution againft this Deduction, neither is it equitable that there fhould, for, it is no more than a reafonable Salary to the Vice-Treafurers, and, is made from the Individuals, only, that re- ceive Money from the Exchequer, and, not from the Public, who would be charged with a Salary, for thefe Officers, if they were not paid by this more equitable, and lefs burden- fome Method. They are intitled to this Mo- ney, raifed in this Manner, by the Ad of Par- liament, under which they liold their Patent ; and they have received this Money by the Execution of that Ad ; and can we, by any Refolution, fay, that this Ad ought not to have been executed ? or, that it fhall not be L 3 exe- 1^2 Debates relative to the [Day IX, executed for the future ? An A6t, indeed, may be repealed, but the Execution of it can' never be fufpended, while it continues in force, without the Exertion of an unconftitu- tional and rebellious Power, which muft ne- ceflarily throw all Things into Confufion. Neither is it the Province of this Houfe to explain the Lav/s, other wife than by new Statutes properly paiTed for that End j the Courts of Law are appointed for this Purpofe, and to them the Subjedt is, by the Inftituti- on of his Country, to apply : Nor, in the prefent Cafe, is the Object worthy of parlia mentary Notice, being only a paltry Sum o about five thoufand Pounds. It was, indeed, the Objedt of parliamentary Attention, when it came regularly before the Parliament, con- nected with other Matters of greater Impor- tance ; and the Parliament, as I have already obferved, confirmed the Dilpofition of it, which is now controverted , if the Refoluti- ons of any former Scfiions are to be review- ed, and we are to undo this Seffions what we did laft, I do not fee, why we may not go back twenty Years, or, bring the Authority of our Rcfolutions into Queflion, from the Time that Refolutions were firft made. If I it was lawful to take Cognizance of this Af- fair, Day IX.] ^Jazrs of Ireland. 153 fair, in wrong of the Court of Chancery, to which the Parties have appealed, yet, I think, we (hould be bound to eftablilh our Refolu- tion, both for our own Honour, and, in Juf- tice to the Gentlemen it concerns; for it would furely be a piteous and cruel Cafe, to make Gentlemen refund, what we have al- lowed them as their Right, and what, in con- fequence of fuch Allowance, they have re- ceived and fpent. Upon the whole, I am clearly of Opinion, that the Houfe fhould do nothing in the Affair. Sir i^— C— . MrS , As I always liflcn, with the greateft Atten- tion, to the Arguments of that learned Gen- tleman, nothing that he fays efcapes me, and, I fhall, therefore, endeavour to trace him flep by ftep, and offer my Thoughts, upon the very fame Points, which he has made the Subjed: of his own. I (hall, how- ever, begin where he has ended, and, as he has thought fit to fay it would be a cruel, and pitiable thing, to bring the Vice-Treafurers to an Account, for what they have fpent, 1 think L4 it y 1^4 Debates relative to the [Day IX, it would be proper to afcertain how far they are Objedts of Commifferation, and, therefore, move, that the proper Officer do lay before the Houfe, an Account of the Sums that have been paid to the Vice-Treafurers, as Salaries for {twtn Years laft paft ; we fhall then know, not only how far they are to be pitied, but how far the want of fufficient Salaries will juftify their having 5,000/. of the public Money, which, except in this fingle Inftance, they never had before. The honourable Gentleman, has, indeed, told us, that it is a reafonable Salary, and, he would perfuade us that the Public does not pay it, becaufe, it is raifed by Dedudions from Sums received by Individuals out of the Treafury ; according to him, granting it to be a reafonable Salary, the Publick adually faves 5,000 /. (which it would be othcrwife taxed to pay this Salary,) by the ingenious Contrivance of mulding thofe, who have Claims on the Treafury. Whether this Sum is a reafonable Part of their Salary now, will be beft determined, when the Amount of their Salary fliall be known, but their Salary was certainly thought fuffi- cient without it, both by their Maffers, and themfelves, from the Time of the Eftabliffi- ment of their Office, till the paffing of their laft Day IX.] Affairs of Ireland. 155 laft Accounts. As to the Pretence, that, if they receive this Increafe of Wages, by a Poundage from Individuals, the Pubhc v^^ill not pay it; a Moment's Confideration will ihew it to be a Fallacy. This Poundage muft be applied, either as an additional Aid to Government, or an Increafe of Salary to the Vice-Treafurer. If it is applied as an additi- onal Aid to Government, the Public necelTa- rily faves a Sum equal to its Amount ; for if, inftead of being applied as an additional Aid, it is paid as an Increafe of Salary, the Public muft raife fuch a Sum, to replace it in the Treafury j fo that, as long as this Poundage is paid to Vice-Treafurers, fo long the Publick muft pay juft as much as that amounts to, more than they would pay if the Poundage was applied as an Aid to Government. — — But, we are farther told, that we ought not to bring the Vice-Treafurers to an Account for an unjuft Application of public Money, becaufe it is now feveral Years fince the pub- lic Money was mif-applied j I confefs this is the firft Time I ever heard that the Age of a Crime ought to be its Protedion. Give me leave to fay, that it is the indifpe^ifible Duty, sis well as the moft important Privilege of this Houfe, to enquire into the Diftribution of 156 Debates relative to the [Day IX. of public Money, and to take Cognizance of the Mif-application of it, at any Time part, however rerfiote, if there is a Poilibijity of re- covering the Sum, or punilhing the OfFenden If Sir Williajn Robinfon, who was fo lone ago difmifled from his Office, for corrupt. Pradiices, was in being, and had wherewithal! to fatisfy the Public, we fhould he inexcufa- ble, if we did not compell him to do it. I intend to fet on foot an Enquiry myfelf, with Refpe6l to fevcn thoufand Pounds that was not accounted for in the Year 1742 j and, if Length of Time fliould not be allowed to fcreen Guilt, neither fliould the Negied of thofe, whofe Bufinefs it is to deted it, dete^^ others from the Attempt. The Negled: of that Sefiions, which pafled the Accounts, in which the Sum in queftion was mifapplied, gives no Sanction to the Mifapplication : Is] our having once done wrong, a Reafon that] we fliould never do right ? On the contrary,] it is the Duty of this Parliament to redifj the Mifl:akes of former Parliaments ; and, I| think, that he who labours to find Caufes why this Houfe fliould not, to the utmofl, fulfill its Truft, with Refped: to the Confi- dence which the Public has repofed in it, by making it the Keeper of its Purfe, does not adl Day IX.] Affairs of Ireland. 157 a(5t as the Friend of his Country. The Fadt, at prefent before us, is this ; the Vice-Trea- lurers, and their Deputy, who are Servants of the Public, have a Difpute among them- felves about the Difpofal of public Money ; of Money which this Houfe has put into their Hands for particular Purpofes, and, inftead of applying to this Houfe, to know what thofe Purpofes were, they carry their Difpute into a Court of Law ; and, fhall we acquiefce in a Meafure, in which we are fo contemptuouQy pafled by, and which fo effentially affects us, with Refpect to our higheft Privilege and greateft Truft ? Surely Mr A— G— aded with the utmoft Propriety, with the greateft Attention to his Duty, and the higheft Re- gard to the Honour of this Houfe, by pre- venting the Determination of this Queftion in Chancery, before we had an Opportunity of taking Cognizance of it ourfelves. The ho- nourable Gentleman, who fpoke laft, has told us, that the Vice-Treafurers are intitled to this Money by the Ad of Parliament under which they hold their Patent ; and that we cannot condemn, or fufpend, the Execution of an Ad otherwife than by repealing it. But, does not this Gentleman know, that, to fay they are intitled to the Money, under an A209 L more, the whole Charge for thofe Years being 5,200/. This, Sir, ap- pears extremely myfterious to me, and, I dare fay, does fo to every Gentleman that hears me. The Increafe in the Penfions is immenfe, for, atprefent, they amount to no lefs than 42,627/, 19 J. 2d. more than the Civil Lift. I, there- fore, humbly move, that this Fad: may be re- cognized by this Committee, and that it be the Refolution of this Committee, that the Penfions do exceed the Civil Lift 42,627/. 195. 2d. Mr P— r-, the A- G— . As the Computation, by which the Penfions appear to exceed the Civil Lift, is entirely an arithmetical Operation, I think it is proper that every Gentleman fhould have Time to fatlsfy himfelf of the Refult of it, before he concurs in a Refolution by which that Refult is declared : The honourable Gentleman, who fpoke laft, fays, it has coft him fome Pains and Trouble, to make this Computation, and, therefore, it is reafonable to fuppofe, that o- ther Gentlemen cannot make it v^^ithout ; fo that, if they arc not to take it implicitly from him lp2 Debates relative to the [Day X. him, fome Time muft be allowed them, and, I think, the Time of this Committee maybe better employed, as I do not fee what End the Relblution propofed will anfwer, when it is made. Mr i?_ F_. Though the Computation coft me fome Time, and Trouble, as it was neceffary for me to ftate the Articles, both of our Income and our Expence, and then to compare the A- mount, it may now be done with the great- eft Facility, becaufe the Accounts, ready drawn up, and ftated, lie upon the Table, fo that nothing more is neceffary than to write down two fhort Lines of Figures, and, by the moft fimple and eafy Operation in Arithme- tic, to dedud one from the other. I, there- fore, defire that the Chairman may make it on behalf of us all, and report it, which, I apprehend, will, at once, put an End to doubt, and carry univerfal Convidtion with it : The mere Convidtion of the Truth of the Fa6t, is not, however, the Intent of my Mo- tion, which I think it now the more necefTa" ry to explain, as the honourable Gentleman, who fpoke laft feems wholly at a Lofs to guefs Day X.] Affairs o/" Ireland. 193 guefs what it may be. My View, Sir, in the Refolution, for which I moved, is, with all pofTible Duty and Refped:, to lay before his Majefty the Senfe of this Houfe, with Refpedt to the great Increafe of the public Expence, in an Article from which we can derive no Advantage, and to a Degree, which, by gra- dually burthening us with a Debt, that we are wholly unable to bear, will terminate in cur Ruin J this, I think, we owe, as an A6t of Duty, to his Majefty ; and, as our Votes are printed for the Information of the Public, I think this Fa(5t, in which the Public is fo nearly interefted, fhould appear in them. I would not, however, have it fuppofed that I am an Enemy to all Penfions indifcriminately, for I think that Gentlemen, who have diftin- guifhed themfelves in the Service of their Country, have a Right to a Gratification, and I think it is the Intereft of their Country that they fliould have it j to reward Merit is to produce it j the Public, therefore, will pur- chafe greater Advantage by thus ftimulating Individuals to fignalize themfelves in its Ser- vice, than by expending the fame Sum in any other Manner : All that I mean, is, to fhew that this Article is fwcUed beyond its due Bounds, and that the Difad vantage of con - trad:- jp4 Debates relative to the FDay X. tra6ting Debts, the Interefl of which can only be paid by the Impofition of Taxes, which cannot be born, is greater than even the Re^ ward of Merit itfelf can countc-bailance j and, I am confident, that if his Mc^jcfty was appri<^ zed of the Weight of our Burthen, he would not fuffer us to bear it. Mr Af— P-. I (hall not enquire whether what is pro- pofed, would, or would not, take up more Time than can now be allotted for it, but, aa the honourable Gentleman who fp(;ke lall, faid, that the Refolution, for whicli he mov- ed, was intended to be laid before his Ma- jefty, as a folemn Adl of the Houfe, I am for that Reafon, againft his Motion, for, making it on a fudden ; fuch a Refolution would come with infinitely more Weight and Dig- nity, after the Members have taken Time for Conlidcration ; there are many Objects of Confidcration that will offer themfelves on this Queftion, befides the mere Truth of the Fad : Deliberation always gives Weight and Force ; Precipitancy always has a contrary Effecfl J the advantage of Deliberation we may fecure by adjourning the Queflion till to- Day X.] Affairs of Ireland. 195 to-morrow, and, as I do not fee that the fmalleft Inconvenience can refult from the Delay I think this (hould be done. Mr P— T—, the A. G. then made the Motion for Adjournment. MrE— S—P^, As there can be no previous Queftion moved for in a Committee, the Motion, for Adjournment, is always conlidered as a pre- vious Queftion, I muft, therefore, declare I am fo far from thinking the Refolution in Queftion will gain Weight and Force, by de- lay, that I think it will greatly lofe, with Re- fped to both J as the Fad itielf is manifeft at fight, we can deliberate only whether we will declare it, and furely this can fliew no- thing, but an Irrefolution, and Lukewarmnefs, which can neither do us Credit, nor our Coun- try Service ; is not the Excefs of Expences, above our Revenue, a Grievance that calls for inftant Redrefs ? Is not the Confequence of it equally manifeft and fatal ? Ought we not to feize the firft Opportunity of making it known to him, from whom alone Redrefs is to be expeded ? And can delay have any O other 196 Debates relative to the [Day X. other Tendency, than to convince him, ei- ther that our Danger is problematical, or, that we have not a proper Senfe of it j will it not, therefore, tend directly to counteradl the very Refolution we are urged to delay, when at laft it fhall be made ? If a Man was to fee his Friend drowning, would he deliberate a- bout throwing out a Rope to fave him ? Would this Adion lofe any of its Weight, or Force, or Ufe, by thathafle which the honeft Impatience of Affedtion would naturally give it ? And would not Deliberation, on the con- trary, be a Proof, either that no Danger was apprehended, or no Deliverance defigned ? I confefs, Sir, that I cannot but fee Deliberation, in this Cafe, and in ours, exadly in the fame Light, and, therefore, I oppofe the Motion, for Adjournment, on this Occafion. Mr C— C— . I am forry to fay, that the very Reafon, which has been moft plaufibly urged for our coming to this Refolution, is with me a Rea- fon againft it. It is faid to be intended for the Information of his Majefty, but, in that View, I muft declare, it appears to me, not only unneceffary, but officious. I have the greatefl Day X.] Affairs of ICELAND. i^y greateft Reafon to believe that his Majefty is already well acquainted with the State of the Finances of this Country, and, with the Pur- pofes to which its Revenue is appropriated 5 and, I have very good Authority to fay, that our amiable and benevolent Prince will, from his truly parental Tendernefs for us, his loyal and afFedlionate People, take every Method to redrefs whatever ihall appear to be really a Grievance : I will venture to fay farther, that the Lord Lieutenant, who has the good of this Country equally at Heart, has already received fuch Inftrudions from his Majefly^ relative to the Penfions, as, if known, would effedually preclude the Motion, which the honourable Gentleman, at the lower End of the Houfe, propofed. I thought it my Duty on the prefent Occafion, to mention this to the Committee. Mr £— 5— P-. As I am fully perfuaded of the Veracity of the honourable Member that fpoke laft, and make no doubt of his having very good In- telligence, I {hall readily admit what he has been pleafed to advance j but, as he has not any Appointment under his Majefty, O 2 whicl; 198 Debates relative to the [Day X. which can give him Authority to communi- cate this Intelligence, I think, it ought not, in any Degree, to influence our Determinations. MrC— C— . I do not prefume to fay, that I had any Authority to communicate what I have juft now mentioned to the Committee, nor fliould I have taken the Liberty to have done it, had it not been publicly faid this Day, by a Num- ber of Gentlemen at the Caftle. The Grati- tude that I owe to his Majefty, for the graci- ous Declaration he has made, and the high Senfe I have of the Obligations we are under to his Excellency the Lord Lieutenant, for the kind Part he has been pleafed to take, in this Affair, animated me fo far to trefpafs a- gainfl; the flridl Rules of Propriety, as to be the firft to communicate what I thought would be very acceptable to the Committee, though there are many Perfons in it, whofe Employment, Confequence, and Experience, give them a better Right to have done it. Mr P- r— , the A. G. . Though I did not intend to mention this Affair Day X.] Affairs in Ireland. 199 Affair, at this Time, yet, I now think, I am called upon to declare what I know about it. I am informed, that his Excellency the Lord Lieutenant, upon his firfl coming to the Ad- miniftration here, reprefented the State of this Country, with Refpedl to Penfions, in fuch a Light, to his Majefty, as induced him to take them into Confideration, and, I am informed, that his Majefty's Secretary of State has lince written a Letter to the Lord Lieutenant, which came to his Hand laft Night, impower- ing him to communicate to this Houfe, his Majefty's Intention, not to grant Penfions upon this Eftablifhment hereafter, except, upon very extraordinary Occafions, either for Life, or Years. Mr y— Fitz G-, I beg leave to obferve, that, in my Opinion, the Intelligence communicated by the ho- nourable Gentleman, who fpoke laft, is pre- mature, and contrary to Order. It is pre- mature, becaufe when it is known that a par- liamentary Enquiry is immediately to be made, concerning the Legality of granting away a very great Part of the Sum, annually paid in Penfions, it is improper to anticipate, O3 in 200 Debates relative to the [Day X. in this Committe, a Debate, which is to come on at a Meeting of the Houfe j and, it is contrary to Order, to mention any Intelligence of this Kind in a Committee at all. Befides, it is at all Times improper, as well in the Houfe, as in a Committee, to mention the King, or his Miniflers, in a manner that may, in the lead Degree, influence the Determina- tion of this Part of the Legiflature, in a Quef- tion, upon which the Public Intereft fo eflen- tially depends. When his Majefly intends us the Honour of a Meflage, and it is brought to us by the proper Officers, at his command, it is our Duty to receive and confider it j but, when we are deliberating upon a Queflion, that comes properly before us as Reprefenta^ tives of the People, we are not to be told that his Majefly has faid this, or his Minifter has faid that, much lefs are we to regard the Whifpers of a Levy, or any thing that a Mi- nifter thinks fit to drop in a feled: Junto, with a View to have it reach this Houfe, in the Courfe of its Circulation *. I exprefs myfelf with * The Lord Lieutenant, upon the firft Intelligence pf his Majefly's Intention, with Rcfpedl to Penfions, though: DayX.] jfffdirs of Ireland. 201 with the greateft Zeal, on this Occafion, as it certainly behoves us not only to avoid, with the utmofl Care, all Royal or Minifterial In- fluence, but even the Appearances of it. Mr P- r-, A. G. Not to controvert what has been offered to iliew that the Intelligence juft communi- cated to the Committee, is premature, or con- trary to Order, it is fufficient, for my own Juftification, to repeat what I faid before, that I did not intend to communicate it, and that I had not received any Authority fo to do s but, as feme Hints had been thrown out, I thought it better to explain the whole Mat- ter, than to let Gentlemen go away with un- certain Surmifes, and conceive Prejudices, which it might afterwards be difficult to re- move. thought fit to communicate it to a few of the principal Gentlemen ; but, not thinking he had fufficient Autho- rity to make it Publick, he wrote to his Majefty for permiflion fo to do ; this Permiflion he received, in the Letter mentioned in this Debate, to have come to his Hand the Night before ; and he then communicated it to a Number of Gentlemen at the Cajile. O A Mr. 202 Debates relative to the [Day X,^ Mr i?- F-, Admitting what that honourable Gentle- man has faid, with Refpecft to his Majefty's Intention, and that his Intelligence was pro- perly conveyed, I think it iliould by no means preclude the Refolution it is fuppofed to ren- der unneceflary j for, I obferve, that the Royal Intention, as it has been reported to us, re- lates only to Pcnfions for Lives, or Years ; whereas, the great Burthen upon this Efta- blifhment is Penfions during Pleafure, which we feldom fee revoked, becaufe they are ge- nerally effectual for the Purpofe intended. It is manifeft, from the uniform Condudt of thofe to whom they are granted, that their Influence is more certain, and, therefore, more dangerous, than that of others, and for this Reafon, as to their immediate Tendency, more worthy to be the Subjecfl of an Ad- drefs. Mr J— D — made ufe of fome Argu- ments, in Favour of the Adjournment, upon which, Mr B got up, and fpoke to the following Effe(fl : Day X.] Affairs of Ireland. 203 I fhould certainly oppofe the Adjournment, if I had no other Objedion agalnft it, than the ill Ufe which may poffibly be made of it ; I am forry to fay, that, upon thefe Occafions, I have frequently known lix or feven Gentle- men meet, who have an Influence in this Houfe, which is too often more prevalent than Convidtion itfelf. In the prefent Cafe, I fhould be very forry to have fuch a Meeting, ^nd, therefore, I am againft the Adjournment. The Queftion for the Adjournment was then put, and carried in the Negative 80 a- eainft 71. The Queftion was then put for the Mo- tion, and pafTed in the Affirmative ISlem. Con, It is remarkable, that the very fame Quef- tion, on the very fame Occafion, was determi- ned by the firft Divifion laft Seffions, when it pafled againft the Adjournment 82 againft 80. The Speaker then refumed the Chair. Mr £— S— P— faid, that he fliould be glad to know what Day it would be agreea- able 204 Debates relative to the [Day X. ble for him to bring into that Houfe a Com- plaint of a Breach of Privilege, with Refpedfc to Letters coming free to Members of that Houfe ; this Privilege, he faid, he thought lliould be fupported, and, he alledged, that an E?igliJJj Letter, dire(fted to him at his Mother's Houfe in himerick^ was charged at the Poft- Office there, becaufe, when it came thither, he happened to be at Dublin j this, he faid, he thought a Breach of Privilege. The R_t H_ble W^ H— F^, P. M. G. got up, and faid, that he was of a different Opinion : The Poft-Officein Ireland, he faid, was a Branch of the Poft- Office in England, and he apprehended that the Privi- lege of Members of Parliament here, with Refpedl to their Letters paffing free, was not more extenfive than that of the Members in England^ where it was an eftabliflied Rule, that, if the Letter was not direded to the dwel- ling Houfe of the Member, or to a Place where he was adually refident at the Time, it fliould be charged. He faid, that a Member of Par- liament, mEnglandj had made a Complaint of exadly the fame Kind as this of Mr P — , with Refpedt to the charging two Letters, which he could produce, and, that being in the Day X.] Affairs of Ireland. 205 the Courfe of the Debate, convinced of the Impropriety of Letters direded to Members of Parhament going free to Places, where the Member was not, and of the ill Purpofes to which it might be abufed, he acqiiiefced \n the Charge, and dropped his Complaint : Mr F — , however, added, that he would not an- ticipate the Debate, which would arife on the Day that fliould be fixed for Complaints of Breach of Privilege being heard, and exami- ned, and that he v/as willing it fhould be fixed as foon as was thought proper, ■ Mr P— replied, that he agreed, with the Poft-Mafler, in allowing that the Poft-Office in Ireland was a Branch of the Poft-Office in England^ but infilled that the Privilege of the Members in Irela?2d had no dependance up- on that Country, Mr F— interrupting him, anfwered, he did not fay that it had. Mr P — then proceeded, and faid, he was fired at a Breach of Privilege of this Kind, as many Arts had been pradlifed to prevent the Members from enjoying the Advantages of it. Jf e added, that it once happened that the Re- folu- 2o6 'l)ebates relative to the [Day XI. folutions of the Houfe, relative to this Quefti- on, and in Favour of the Privilege, had been fecreted and not printed. TUESDAY, AVj. 8, 1763. ELEVENTH DAY. UvJ—Fitz-G—. MrS , THE Penlions that are now charged upon the civil Eftabliiliment of this Kingdom, amount to no lefs than feventy-two Thoiifand Poimds per Annum, befides the French and military Penfions, and befides the Sums paid as Salaries for old, and new unneceflary Em- ployments, and thofe paid in unneceflary Ad- ditions to the Salaries of others ; the Penfi- ons, therefore, on the Civil Eftablifhment a- lone, exceed the Civil Lift above forty-two 'Thoiifand Pounds. It appears to have been the unanimous Refolution of this Houfe, in the Year 1757, that the Increafe of Penfions was then very alarming, and, as the Increafe of Day XI. Affairs of Ireland. 207 of Penfions, fince that Time, has been very confiderable, it muft be now alarming, in a much greater Degree. Pcnfions have gradu- ally increafed every Year, from the Time that their Increafe was declared to be alarming, by a folemn Refolution of this Houfe. I fpeak it with equal Aftonifhment and Con- cern, and, I think, it mufl aftonifli and con- cern all that hear me. There are many other Circumftances that aggravate this Evil. Pen- fions were not only increafed by the Minif- ters, immediately after the folemn Declaration of this Houfe, that they were already fo great as to be of the mo ft fatal Confequence, had been communicated, in a moft fubmillive Manner, by an Addrefs, to the Crown ; but at a Time when an expenfive War increafed the real Exigencies of the State, and when a large Supply, large, with Refpedt to the pecuniary Abilities of this poor Country, was required, and granted, and a very confiderable national Debt willingly, and chearfully, contradted : At a Time, too, when many new Regiments Were raifed, which, as they would necelTarily increafe the Influence of a Minifter, by creat- ing new Appointments, might well have ex- cufed us from paying penfionary Gratiftcati" pns ; It might, reafonably, have been hoped, that 2o8 Debates relathe to the [Day XI. that our general Inability, our neceffary In- creafe of Expence, our contracting Debts, and our Increafc of the Minifter's Power, by raif- ing new Troops, the Command of which would be in his Difpofalj would, without any Remonftrance from the Commons, have been fufficient to deter him from laying upon us the additional and odious Burthen of new Penfions j yet, unhappily for us, Penfions have been increafed, in Proportion to the very Caufes why they fhould not encreafe ; and, while our Ability has been growing lefs, and the Influence of the Minifter more, we have not only had our Money given away, in new Penfions, but in Augmentations of the Salaries that we have too long paid for doing nothing. It is always, with Regret, that I diicover the Nakednefs of my Country, but, upon this Occafion, I ought not to hide it : Upon this Occafion, I mufl remind you, that Ireland is not more than one third peopled ^ that our Trade lies under fuch Difadvantages, that two-thirds of the People we have are unemployed, and are, confcquently, condem* ned to the moft deplorable Indigence j a State which cannot fail to render them wretched, in Proportion as the Luxury of a few has multiplied artificial Wants, to which they are no Day XI.] Affairs of Ireland. 209 no Strangers, but oF which they have no far- ther Knowledge than juft ferves to excite Envy and Difcontent. We have neither fo- reign Trade, nor home Confumption, fuffici- ent to diftribute the Conveniencies of Life a- mong us, with a reafonable Equality ; or to enable us to pay any Tax, proportioned to our Number. This Illand is fuppofed to contain three Millions ; and, of thefe, two Mil- lions live like the Beafts of the Field, upon a Root picked out of the Earth; almoft without Hovels for Shelter, or Cloaths for covering. What muft become of a Nation, in this Situ- ation, which, at the fame Time, is contract- ing a Debt that muft every Year increafe, by a very confiderable Excefsof its Expences a- bove its Income ? What muft become of a Nation whofe idle Hands, inftead of being employed, by the Introdudtion of Trade, and the Eftabliftiment of Manufad:ures, are form- ed into Corps of mercenary Soldiers, whom the unhappy Community to which they be- long, and to the Profperity of which their Labour ought to contribute, is taxed to pay ;, with this Aggravation, that the Expence they can fo ill bear, is unnecefllirily increafed, upon the Penfion Principles, by the Number of Regiments, and Oflicers, being greatly more than 2IO ^Debates rclathe to the [Day Xf^ than in Proportion to the Number of Men ; by the Money paid to thefe Officers being fpent in another Country, almoll: all the Staff, which is very weighty, being Abfentees, and feveral of the Re$>;iments themfelves beins ordered out of the Kingdom ? What Me- thod can be found to prevent the Ruin of a State, in which thefe Evils not only continue, but increafe ? What new Mode of Taxation can be devifed ? Shall we tax Leather where no Shoes are worn, or Tallow, where no Can- dles are burnt ? What Tax can be raifed upon the Neceffariesof Life, where they con- fift wholly 'of Roots and Water ? and, where Convenienciescanbut juft be procured ? What Tax can be laid upon them that will not ope- rate as a Prohibition, and, confequently, can never be raifed ? If we cannot increafe our Revenue, we have but one Alternative, we muft either lellen our Expences, or be un- done : Surely, it is not necefHiry to confider how Ruin may be aggravated, to determine our Choice ; and yet there are many Circum- flances that will aggravate our Ruin, if we fuller it to take Place ; thofe who have fuf- fered in a good Caufe, who have facrificed a private to a public Litereft, who have fuftain- ed fuffering Virtue, or, alfcrted the Claim of ne- Id AY XL] Affairs of Ire LAN d. 2 i i negleded Merit, have derived Confolation from a noble Source, and have not only tri- umphed, but rejoiced in Misfortune* Will this be our Cafe? If we ourfelves, our Wives, and Children, and all that are near and dear to us, are ftript of our whole Birthright j if our Conftitution is fubvertcd, our Freedom deftroyed, and the wretched Inhabitants of this loyal and magnanimous Country left to perifh, for Want, in the Streets, what Com- fort (hall we have in this dreadful Day of our Vifitation ? Can we then refledl, with the Patriot's Elation of Mind, that we fuffer for the general Good of Mankind ? Can we footh ourfelves with the confcious Generofity of • having procured any important Benefit to our Sifter Country ? Can we flatter Ourfelves with a Loyalty that has faCrificed all to the Gratification of our Prince ? or with a roman- tic, but noble Liberality, that has laviflied our whole Poflefiions, in rewarding thofe who have opened new Mines of Knowledge, of unlocked new Springs of Felicity ? — No 5 mortifying Confideration ! we are facrificing Ourfelves to increafe the Folly and Extrava- gance of thofe, whom Opulence has already made extravagant and foolifh j or to enrich the Servile and the Corrupt, whom it is the P In- 212 Debates relative to the [Day XI. Intereft of every State to keep poor. Some private Service done to the King's Advifers, is the Claim, the only Claim, of both Claf- fes, to the Vitals of our Country ; and, what is our confenting to pay Penfions to fuch Wretches as thefe, but leaving our Property to thofe who have ftabbed us to the Heart ! It is written, That the Wages of Si?i is Death j but whoever will look into our Lift of Penfi- ons, will have Reafon to fay, *' That the Wages of Sin is Ireland,'' There are, indeed, on that Lift, two Perfons who have an indu- bitable Claim to our Gratitude j one in this Kingdom, and the other in England -y but ma- ny of the reft, on the Lift, are Names that arc no where elfe to be found, that blot the Pa- per, and diflionour the two worthy Perfons, who are mentioned in the fame Margin : It is not, indeed, pretended that they have Me- rit, even in the Preamble of the very Patent that gives them our Wealth ; it is there con- fefled that they are feleded to good Fortune hy fpecial Grace, and 7nere Motion : If we en- quire what it was that qualified them for this Diftindion, we ftiall find, that the Qualifica- tion of fome, was, their having had Penfions before, that were too fmall to gratify their Vi- ces ; the Qualification of others, their contri- buting Day XI.] Affairs of Ir-rla^-d. 213 buting to the Vices of their Superiors, and of fome, their Dexterity at procuring for a Minifter, a parliamentary Influence : They are of both Sexes, of all Countries, and of all Claffes : The Foreigner, by having a Penlion for Life, or Years, may employ our own Mo- ney againft us ; for, though the Grant, in that Cafe, might be refumed, yet it might, before that Time, be transferred for an equivalent Sum, which would be thus out of our reach : The Native being worthlefs and corrupt, and his very Demerit being his Recomrpendation, is already adtually employed againft us, by fe- cretly undermining our Independence, and Liberty, and both concur in draining us of Money to an Amount that muft load us with an unfupportable Debt, and terminate in our inevitable Ruin. Our Cafe, however, is not defperate ; our Hope js in the Beft of Princes, the Friend of Virtue, the Father of his People : To redrefs this enormous Griev- ance, nothing more can be ncceflary than to acquaint him with it : To expofe the delu- five Arts of his Advifers, and convince him, by the Reprefentation I have now made, that they are facrificing the Happinefs, almoft the Exiftence, of three Million of his loyal and dutiful Subjeds, to a few Wretches, of whom P 2 he 2 14 Debates relative to the [Day XI. he is totally ignorant, and whom, if he knew, he would defpife and deteft. It can never be fuppofed, that cur moft gracious Sovereign would concur in fuch Meafures, if he might do it without an exprefs Violation of the Law, much lefs can it be fuppofed, that he would fuffer the Law to be violated, which he has publickly and folemnly engaged to de- fend. That the Grant of the Penfions, in Queflion, is contrary to Law, I fhall now prove, by inconteftible Evidence, and, what- ever Doubt fome Gentlemen may have, or pretend to have, about the fatal Confequences of our Penfions, I prefume that there are none who doubt, or pretend to doubt, whether a Pradlice fhould be fuffered, by which Laws, that immediately affedt, not Individuals only, but the very Conftitution are trampled under Foot. The Crown, Sir, has a public and a private Revenue ; the public Revenue it receives as a Truftee for the Public; and the private Revenue it receives in its own Right. The public Revenue arifes from the hereditary and temporary Duties, and thefe are exprefly appropriated to particular Purpofes ; fo that the Crown is not a Truftee with a difcretionary Power, Day XL] Affairs of Irela^-d, 215 Power, but a Truftee, limited and prefcribed ; receiving the Mooey, merely to apply it for the Purpofes to which it is appropriated. The private Revenue arifes from the ancient Demefne Lands, from Forfeitures for Treafon, and Felony, Prifage of Wines, Light-Houfe Duties, and a fmall Part of the cafual Reve- nue, not granted by Parliament, and, in this, the Crown has the fame unlimitted Property that a Subjedt has in his own Freehold. Now, Sir, the private Revenue of the Crown, probably, does not amount to 7,000 /. a Year, io that the Penfions, amounting to 72,000/. a Year, include an illegal Appropriation of 65,000 /. a Year, of an unalienable Revenue, limitted to public Ufes, That the public Revenue is thus limitted, appears inconteftible, by the very Statutes on which the feveral Duties that conftitute it are raifed. The Grant of the Excife is faid, in the Pre- amble, to be for " Pay of the Army, and ** defraying other public Charges, in Defence ** and Prefervation of this Kingdom ;" the Grant of Tonnage and additional Poundage, *' for proteding the Trade of this Kingdom P3 at 2i6 Debates relative to the [Day XL " at Sea, and augmenting the public Reve- " nue 5" and the Grant of Hearth-Money, as " a public Revenue for public Charges and *' Expences." This Grant of Hearth-Money was made in lieu of the Irijh Court of Wards , in which the Crown had private Property ; and on which Penfions had been charged ; and, there- fore, the Legiflature, apprehending that thofe to whom thefe Penfions had been paid, might endeavour to obtain them out of this new Revenue, was not content that they fhould only be 'voidable by the general Appropriati- on of the Grant in the Preamble, but added a Claufe, exprefly enabling, that all fuch Penfi- ons fhould be void ; enabling the Court of Ex- chequer, in a fummary Way, to compell the Grantee to re-pay all the Penfion that Tiould be received, on Pretence of fuch Grant, and inflicting a Forfeiture of double the Value, on every Perfon, who fhould accept of fuch Pen- fion ; it mufl alfo be remarked, that the Claufe annulling Penfions contains no Excep- tion in Favour of Penfions granted as Re- wards for public Services; it is, therefore, manifefl, that the Legiflature did not confider fuch Penfions as Part of the public Charges -, if Day XL] Affairs of Ireland. 217 if they did, this Adl would be inconfiftent with itfelf. The A(fl for granting the Revenue of Ale- Licenfes, not mentioning the Ufes for which it was granted, in the Preamble, has reftrained the Crown from charging it with Penfions, by an exprefs Claufe. The Ad: granting the Revenue of ftrong Water, and Wine-Licences, was principally intended to regulate the Retail of thofe Li- quors, and not for the Income, which was fuppofed to be inconfiderable j therefore no Preamble was thought of, to declare the Ufes of it, nor any exprefs Claufe to guard it a- gainft Penfions ; yet, as there is nothing in. it that fhews an Intention of private Property, the Conftrudlion of this Ad: muft be govern- ed by the ufual Intention of fuch Grants, for this is the univerfal Pradtice, with Refpedl to Conftrudions in Law, as might be (liewn from a hundred Inftances. The Grant of Poundage Is manifeflly in- tended for public Ufes : It was originally granted in the i^xYioi Henry the IVth, to the military Fraternity of St George, for main- P 4 tain- 2i8 Debates relative to the [Day XI. iaining a military Force, in Defence of the Englifi Pale againjl Rebels : An Adt of the loth of of Henry the Vllth, recites, that the Tax had been converted by the Fraternity to private Ufes^ and, therefore, grants it to the Crown for five Years ; at the Expiration of this Term it was made perpetual by the Ad: now in Force. The IriJJj Quit-rents, and Crown-rents, were referved on Grants of Lands, in which the Crown had a private Property, and, therefore, thefe Rents were originally the private Property of the Crown, but, by the Englijh A(ft of the nth and 12th of King William the Hid. it is enaded " that thefe " Rents flialiy£>r ever be for the Maintainance *^ of the Government of Ireland y and that all *' Penfions fince the 13th of February 1688, " charged or to be charged thereon, fhould " be void." Now, it cannot be argued, that the exprefs Exclufion of Penfions proves them not to be excluded by the general Appropria- tion of the Duty ; becaufe, though the ex- prefs Appropriation of the Duty, does ex- clude them, an exprefs Claufe, was, notwith- {landing, necefifary for two Purpofes ; one was, that Penfions which would other wife have Day XI.] Affairs of Ik-el A^v>, 219 have been only 'voidable , might be void-, and the other, that Penfions, granted between the 1 3 th of February 1688, and the Time of mak- ing the Ad might be null, which might other- wife have been deemed valid. It muft alfo be obferved here, that this Adt, like that an- nulling Penfions on the Hearth-money, makes no Exception in favour of thofe fuppofed to be granted for public Service ; fo that fuch Penfions cannot be pretended to be for the Maintenance of Government. It alfo appears that the Legiflatures, both of England and Ireland^ wifely forefaw, that an Exception, in Favour of Penfions, grounded on public Me- rit, would be abufed, by Servants of the Crown, and Mifleaders of the People j and it is manifefl, that charging the Revenue of Ire^ land with Penfions, is contrary to the Inten- tion of both Legiflatures, in other Words is contrary to Law, This Fadt, once eftablifhed, totally pre- cludes all that might be offered on the other Side, yet, I cannot help obferving, that one Argument, in particular, in Favour of Pen- fions \%felo-de-fe ; it is faid, that Penfions are ufeful for maintaining the Dignity of the Crown J if fo, no Penfion fhould be grant- ed 220 Debates relative to the [Day XI. cd for Lives, or Years, either in Pofleffion, or Reverfion, becaufe fuch Grant tends to lefTen the Dignity of the Crown in fucceed- ing Reigns; fome new Kind of Sophiftry, muft, therefore, be invented to frame a plau- fible Apology for the Advifers of fuch Pen- fions. I think, Sir, it would now be unneceflary to take Notice of a Letter, faid to have been written by one of the Secretaries of State, concerning his Majefty's Intention, with Re- fped; to Penfions, even if it had come legally before us j I {hall, therefore, only obferve, that it promifes nothing ; it fays, as we have beei informed, by thofe who affecft to believe that it ought to preclude our prefcnt Enquiry, that Vtn^ions J or Lives or Tears, (hall not be grant- ed for the future, except on extraordinary Oc" cafions : Penfions, during Pleafure, therefore, are out of the Queftion ; and who but the Minifter is to judge of the Occafion, upon which Penfions are to be granted for Lives, or Years ? If the Minifter, Sir, fhall think fit to advife the granting fuch Penfion, for the fu- ture, he has nothing to do, but to pretend that the Occafion is extraordinary, to evade the Promife, in which we are now exhorted im- pii- Day XL] ^^fairsef Ireland. 221 plicitly to truft. Upon the whole, as the prefent Load of Penfions is ruinous in itlelf, as it is laid on, in Violation of the conftitutional Laws of the Kingdom, as the Acquiefcence, in fuch Violation, is a Breach of the Truil re- pofed in us, and totally repugnant to our higheft Intereft, and, as we have at prefent no effedual Promife of Redrefs, I humbly beg leave to move " That an humble Addrefs be prefented to to his Majefty, to reprefent, in the moft du- tiful Terms, that the Debt of this Kingdom is become very great. That the Penfions, now in being, that have been placed on the Eftablifhments of this Kingdom, are one of the Caufes of the Increafe of the public Debt. That thofe Penfions have been paid, and con- tinue to be paid, out of all the Revenues of this Kingdom without Diflindlion. That it appears to this Houfe to be worthy of his Majefty's Royal Confideration, whether the Grants that have been made of thofc Pen- fions, are agreeable to, or warranted by the Laws of Kingdom, and whether the Reve- nues of the Crown that have been given for public Ufes, ought, or can by Law, be applied to Penfions : And, therefore, moft hum- 22 2 Debates relative to the [Day XI, humbly to befeech his Majefty, to order it to be made known, as his Majefty's Royal Will and Command, to the Officers of the Trea- fury of this Kingdom, that no Part of the Revenues of Excife, Cuftoms, Poundage, Hearth- Money, Quit-Rents, Ale Licences, Wine, or Strong Water Licences, or of the additional Duties, granted or to be granted in this Kingdom, for any limited Term, be paid or applied to any Penlion, or Annuity, grant- ed, or to be granted, out of, or which may any ways charge, or affedl the faid Revenues of Excife, Cuftoms, Poundage, Hearth Money, Quit Rents, Ale Licences, Wine, and Strong Water Licences, and additional Duties, or any of the faid Revenues, till it fliall firfl be de- termined by a Court of Juftice, of compe- tent Jurifdiclion, that the Crown may grant Annuities, or Penfions, out of the faid Reve- nues J and that his Majefty may be graciouf- ly pleafed to give his Royal Orders to the Officers of the Treafury, that no Penfions be paid out of the faid Revenues, in any other Manner, than the Judgment, or Decree, of a Court of competent Jurifdi(5tion, (hall deter- mine to be juft, and agreeable to the Laws of this Kingdom; and that his Majefty may be gfacioully pleafed to order his Majefty's Ser- Day XI.] u4ffairs of Irel AN T>. 223 Servants of the Law in this Kingdom, to make that Defence, that the Laws of the Kingdom fhall warrant, to every Suit that (hall be commenced or carried on by any Pen- iioner or Annuitant, claiming any Part of the faid Revenues, till it (hall be judicloufly deter- mined, in the moft folemn Manner, and by the dernier refort, that the Crown may grant Penfions, or Annuities, out of the faid Reve- nues. That his Majefty's faithful Commons, neverthelefs, do by no Means intend, that the Crown fhall be deprived of the Means of re- warding Merit, or of conferring thofe Boun- ties, on proper Occafions, that the Honour and Dignity of the Crown may require : But that his Majefly's faithful Commons, on the contrary, will be ready to provide a Revenue, fuch as the Condition and Circumftances of this Kingdom fhall admit of, to enable the Crown to reward Merit, and, on proper Oc- cafions, to confer thofe Bounties that may be fuitable to the Honour and Dignity of the Crown, if it fhall be determined, that the pre- fent Revenues of the Crown, that have been given for Public Ufes, ought not to be applied to Penfions. Provided thefe Revenues be referved and applied to the Support of his Majeflv's Government in this Kingdom onlv." Mr 224 Debates relative to the [Day XI. Mr J— M— faid, that he did not pretend to go into the nice Difquilitions of the Law, or enter the Lifts with the worthy Member, who fpoke laft, fo juftly pre-eminent in the Profeffion ; but that he thought it his Duty, when he intended to oppofe a Meafure of fo great and upright a Man, to difclofe his own Sentiments as the Motives of his Condudt, however firmly he might be perfuaded they would have but little Influence upon others. Let us fuppofe, fays he, that the Houfe Ihould come into the Motion ; that the King, in confequence of it, fliould give Orders to his Servants, to fupport a Suit intended to inva- lidate his own Grants, and diftrefs the de- ferving, for feme fuch I think the honourable Gentleman has allowed to be in the Pen- fioners Lift: ; let us fuppofe, that after long litigation, at a vaft Expence to the Crown, and to the total Ruin of the Penfioners, the Grant ftiould be declared illegal, and invali- dated accordingly ; I apprehend that the Evil, refulting from fuch a Determination, would be greater than the Good ; it would immedi- ately injure the Prerogative of the Crown, and, confequently, would be hurtful to the Conftitution, of which the Crown is an eften- tial DavXI.] ^fatrs of Ireland 225 tial and confiderable Part. It is necelTary, in all Conftitutions, that the Regal Dignity fhould be fupported by a Power to reward as well as to punifh : It is furely, contrary to all Rules, as well as all Senfe of Right, and Wrong, that our amiable and beloved Sove- reign, who holds the Sword of Juftice in one Hand, fhould hold a barren Sceptre in the other. The two great Springs of all Adtion are Hope and Fear, and, where Fear only o- perates. Love can have no place j a People ftimulated only by Fear, however free, and, whatever Advantages of Government they may boaft, are in a worfe State than the Sub- jects of a Defpotic Prince ; Rewards and Pu- nifhments are allowed to be properly in the Hands of the Divine Being, w^hom Kings (liould be taught to imitate, and, in every State, it is as neceffary to ftimulate to fuch A(5lions as are beneficial to a Sta^e, as to de- ter from thofe which are hurtful : If Per- fons of great Merit become grey in the Ser- vice of their Country, muft they be difmifled to ftarve when they are capable of this Ser- vice no longer ? Or muft the Public fuffer by having them continued in Places of which they are unable to difcharge the Duty ? To continue them would be furely the moft ex* 226 Debates relative to the [Day Xf. expenfive Way of rewarding them ; and to difmifs them, unrewarded, would be little better than adopting the horrid Cuftom of the Indian Savages, who deftroy their Parent* when they grow old j upon the whole, con- lidering the prefent, juft, and gracious Dif- pofition of his Majefty, and the amiable Con- dudl of the Lord Lieutenant, with Refped to the Penfions on this Eftablifhment, I really think Reftridions are unnecefTary ; and, as I fhould be forry to render his Majefty's divine Charadteriflic of delighting to do Good in- effedual, I muft declare myfelf againft th* Motion. Mr R- I,-. Mr S , I am fo aftonidied. Sir, at what I have heard from the honourable Gentleman, wha fpoke laft, that I know not where to begin my Reply j becaufe it has been admitted, that two Perfons, who receive Penfions from this Eftablilhment are worthy, he fets out upon a Suppofition, that Penfions, in general, are the Reward of Merit, though they have been exprelly faid to be given for the Services firft. t)A,Y Xi.] u^Jairs of Ireland', 227 6f Vice, to Vice, to be a Superfluity added to Wealth, or, the Means of Luxury and Intem- perance, to Ignorance and Sloth > If^ upon the Principle, that it is better for ten guilty to e- fcape, than for one innocent to fufFer, he would infinuate, that all the Penfions fhould be continued, for the Sake of the few who deferve them, he muft, firfl, fhew, that the Fund propofed to be eftablidied for enabling the Crown to reward Merit, will be inade- quate to the Deferts of thofe few ; for, other- wife, there is no Neccflity for continuing Pen- fions to the unworthy, upon pretence, that they muft otherwife be taken from the defer- ving : Befides, Sir, if that was the Cafe, his Principle concludes direcflly againft him ; for many more innocent Perfons will fuffer, by the Continuation of Penfions, as they ftand at prefent, than by the total Annihilation of them all; by their Continuance, Sir, the whole Nation muft fuffer, as the honourable Gentleman, who made the Motion, has (liewn by his mafterly Addrefs, not to the Pafiions only, but the Underftanding. What then can the Gentleman mean, by fuppofing, that, an Enquiry into the Legality of thefe Grants, will reftrain the King's Power of doing Good ? Is the Gratification of a certain Number of Q^ fervll?' 228 Debates relative to the [Day XI. fervile, obfcure, vicious, idle, and voluptuous Wretches, at the Expence of a Nation, doing Good ? Will not his Majefly rejoice to be undeceived, and to have his Benevolence di- reded to its proper Objed: ? Would he not alfo be glad to have his Bounty kept within its proper Channel, rather than fufFered to overflow its Banks, and ruin the Country ? This Country, Sir, might eafily be made a bright Jewel in the BnfiJJo Crown, and, it is now able to contribute fomething to the ge- neral Stock J it may be faid. Sir, like the Bird in the Fable, to produce one golden Egg in a Day, but, if thofe who receive the gra- dual Tribute are impatient to feize the whole Treafure at its Source, they will fare, as the Peafant did, who ripped up his Bird, and fuf- fei by the fame Folly and Rapacity that de- flroyed their Benefactor. But, I am really, Sir, almoft afraid to follow the honourable Gentleman farther j he has told us, Sir, that, if the Grant of Penfions is illegal, it ought to be, notwithftanding, permitted, for fear of hurting the Prerogative. Is it the Preroga- tive of the Crown, Sir, to act contrary to Law ! And have we lived to hear this Prin- ciple advanced in an Irijh Houfe of Com- mons ! Upon this Occasion, my Humanity retrains JDay XL] Affairs of iR-E-LA-iiD. 229 reftrains me from making any Remark, and, I am fure, the Senfe of the Houfe muft ex- cufe me from a Reply. But, Sir, we have alfo been told, by a mofl: extraordinary De- du6lion of Argument, that if we do not fuffer ourfelves to fink under the prefenc exorbitant Load of Penfions, we ihall be in a worfe State than the Slaves of a Tyrant in Barbary ; dread- ful Dilemma, and aflonifhing Paradox ! but how is it made out ? Why, if we limit the Penfions, we fhall totally annihilate the King's iPower to reward Merit ; if we annihilate his Power to reward Merit, he can never excite Hope ; if he excites no Hope, he can adl only upon our Fear, and thofe, that are fti- hiulated only by Fear, are worfe off than Slaves in Barbary. If it is poffible to recoiled: myfelf, among all thefe Wonders, and fee my Way through this Confufion, let me afk, has the King of Great Britain no Source for the Rewardof Merit, but 7r//7:> Penfions ? Let us look round, and take a View of the Servants of the Crown, and their Servants, and the Servants of their Servants, in every Depart- ment j and, let us count their Numbers, and theValue of their Employments ; we iLall foon be convinced, that the Service of the State is moft abundantly its own reward j of how 0^2 many 230 Debates relathe to the [Day XI. many does the firft and principal Clafs con- fift, who, in general, are paid for doing no- thing ? And how much more numerous are the fubordinate Claffes that are paid for doing, what the others leave undone ? While all thefe lucrative Employments are in the Gift of the Crown, is Merit to go wholly un- rewarded, if we reduce our Penfions within the Limits of our Ability ? Is Merit to be wholly unrewarded, if our Vitals are not drained away for thofe who have no Merit at all ? Amazing Abfurdity ! But if our Penlions are reduced, and our Laws kept facred,worfe Confequences ftill follow ^ we are then to adl from no Motive but Fear, and, if fo, we are in a worfe State than Slaves in Barbary, It is fomewhat difficult to con- ceive, what makes the State of the Subjedls of Morocco deplorable, if it is not a (lavilli Subie(ftion from a principal of Fear ; and, if it iS;, there cannot be lefs Difficulty in conceiving Jiow our State can become worfe, fuppofing the fame Effe o8 Debates relative to the [Day XVI. Sir R C — feconded this Motion, and faid, that the Paper Manufadure, being in its Infant State, and of great Importance to the Kingdom, it ought to receive every poffiblc Encouragement. Mr A— M-— . MrS , There is no Man in this Houfe, Sir, more ready to encourage the Manufacftures of this Country than myfelf, as no Man can have a fuller Conviction, that the Riches and Hap- pinefs of the Country depend principally upon them. Yet I fhould be forry to have this Houfe come fo fuddenly to a Refolution, which v^ould, in fome Degree, operate v^^ith the Force of a Law, and which may alfo give Jealoufy and Umbrage to Nations with whom we have Connexions, and whofe Good-will and Friendfhip we fhould do every Thing in our Power to fecure j there are alfo other ill Confequences to be appre- hended from the Meafure propofed, which, at leaft, make it advifeable, not to take it pre- :ipitately : If we may Credit the Memorial that Day XVI. Affairs of Ireland. 309 that lies upon the Table, we ought rather to encourage than difcourage the Importation of Paper, becaufe we confume more than our Manufacturers can fupply, and do not yet im- port enough to make good the Deficiency, which it is of great Moment for us to do. Printing is a Manufacture, the Encreafe of which neceflarily depends upon having Paper of a good Kind, and at a reafonable Rate, and there are confiderable Works of Printing now carrying on j if, therefore, we produce a Scar^ city of Paper, by prohibiting its Importation, we {hall raife its Price, and we fhall alfo debafe its Quality ; for our Paper Makers will have a Monopoly, and impofe upon the Stationer, Printer, and Confumer, what Commodity they think fit, and at what Price j however,^ as I am wholly ignorant of the State of our Paper Manufad:ory, and fpeak only upon Conjecfture, and the Credit of the Memorial, I have mentioned to be lying before us, I wifh a Committee might be appointed to en- quire, how far our own Manufactory of Pa- per can fupply the Confumption j if it can- not fupply the Confumption, I do not fee that this Motion is neceflary for its Encou- ragement. It will not encourage the making it by making a Market, for it has a fufficient X z Mar- 3 lo Debates relative to the [Day XVI. Market already ; it will not encourage the making it better^ for when it is confumed in confequence of an Order, and not by Prefer- ence, the Manufadurer, will, be lefs felici- tous to recommend it by its Quality, and gain it the Preference, than when the Sale depends upon fuch Preference. I hope, therefore, that the Gentleman will withdraw his Motion, and that a Motion will be made for the Appoint- ment of a Committee, to make fuch Enqui- ries as may be previouHy neceffary to direft our Determinations. Sir/^'— O— . Mr S , Whatever Deference I pay to the Judgment of the learned Gentleman, who fpoke laft, I muft be excufed from withdrawing my Mo- tion 5 as Committees have been frequently appointed, lince the Year 1749, for the very Enquiry he mentions, concerning the State of our Paper Manufa<5lory, and frequent Re- ports made, and Premiums given for its En- couragement, I think its Progrefs and prefent State muft be fufficieiitly known ; however, lam Day XVI.] Affairs o/'Ireland. 3 1 1 I am commiffioned to afTure the Houfe, that the Manufactory of Cork alone would fur- nifli this City with forty thoufand Rheams a Year, and, that there are, at leaft, twenty other Manufaiflories, which, if they had pro- per Encouragement, would be able to fupply the whole home Confumption, and, where fo many Mills are conftantly at Work, I fee no danger of a Monopoly j there will be a fuffi- cient Rivalry among them to keep Paper at a reafonable Price, and to furnifh a good Com- modity. Belides, I do not fee how the Meafure, propofed by the Motion, can leiTen the Importation of foreign Paper any other- wife than by tending to gain the Preference for our own Paper, both with Refpe6t to Quality and Price, by encouraging the Ma- kers to perfevere in the Exertion of their Di- ligence, and their Skill. Is a pretended Re- gard to Foreigners, or a Fear of giving them Umbrage, to prevent our endeavouring to eftablifh Manufadlures of our own upon fuch Principles, and by fuch Means as thcfe P If the Price of our own Paper is unreafonably raifed, and the Quality rendered worfe by this Motion, it will rather encourage than prevent the Importation of the Commodity ; for what fhould hinder the Stationer, Printer, X 3 and ^ 1 5 t)ebates relative to the [Day XVI, and Confumer, from ufing fuch Paper as de- ferves the Preference, whether with Refped: to Quality, or Price, fuppofing the Meafure propofed by the Motion to take Place ? And how, Sir, can this Meafure tend to make Paper fcarce ? Will more Paper be ufed by this Houfe than was ufed before ? If we propofed to make an Order, that for every Sheet we ufed we fhould burn another, under a Notion of encouraging the Manufacture, by cncreafing the Confumption, then it might be objected, that we fhould make Paper fcarce ; but, we propofe no fuch Thing, we only propofe that the Quantity of Paper we have been ufed to confume, fhall, for the future, be fupplied by our ownManufa6tures; and, furely, there is nothing in this that can hurt any other Manufadture of our own, or juftly give Offence to any other Country, as an Injury to theirs. What Encouragement the Paper Manufadure may receive from the Motion it is not neceffary to enquire, for it is not oppofed, upon Pretence that it will give no Encouragement, but the contrary, that it will give too much. I have already fliewn that this Pretence is groundleis, and, I fhall now fliew, that fuch Encouragement as it can give to that Manufactory, the Manufac- tory Day XVI.] Affairs of Ireland. 313 tory ought to have : It is a Manufadlure of great Importance in itfelf, and it is alfo of great Importance as a Branch, though a rer- mote one, of the Linnen Manufa^flure ; Paper is a Commodity fabricated from Materials, which would otherwife be of no value, and it employs a great Number of Perfons, who, from their Situation, and Circumftances, could be employed in no other Way than the col- leding fuch Materials together. That the Meafure propofed would operate with the Force of a Law, prohibiting the Importation of Paper, 1 have (hewn already to be a mere groundlefs Pretence : You, Sir, (addreiling himfelf to the Speaker) and this Houfe have a Power of ordering the public Proceedings of Parliament to be printed in what Manner, and upon what Materials you think fit, but your Order cannot extend further, and, there- fore, for any Thing yet offered, I muft hum- bly beg leave to be excufed from withdraw- ing my Motion. Lord B — got up, and faid, that he had po Objetftion to any Motion that could pro- duce fo falutary a Purpofe as the Encourage- ment of a ufeful and confiderable Manufac- tory y but that to prevent all Appearance of X 4 Rival- J5I4 Debates relative to the [Day XVI. Rivalihip, and render the Meafure agreeable to every Body, he propofed to make an A- mendment, and that Paper of Britifi Ma- nufadture ihould be included in the Motion. Sir i?— C— . MrS^ I hope, Sir, I fhall be excufed, for making a flight Obfervation, on what has been faid, by the honourable and learned Gentleman who fits on the oppofite Bench j it has been infinuated by that Gentleman, that the Dif- couragement of Foreign Manufactures, by the Encouragement of our own, ma,y give Um- brage to Countries, with which we are con- neded j but, if the pleafing our Allies is to interfere with the Execution of a Meafure, which, we think for our own interior Ad- vantage, we fhall be in a State moft deplor- ably dependant and confined, and become the Servant of Servants, in the moft mortify- ing Senfe of the Words. As to the Amend- ttient in favour of Britifh Paper, I am afraid it would be attended with very great Incon- veniencies, and, in a great Meafure, defeat the Intention of the Motion, for it would be very eafy Day XVL] Jfairs of Ireland. 31^ eafy for the Eiiglifi Factors, in league with the Fadors here, to pour in, by the Way of EfJgland, a vaft Quantity of Paper made by the Dutch', is there not every Day a vaft Quantity of French Silk obtruded upon us, as the Manufadure of England f Is this Griev- ance fo foon forgotten ? Every body knows that the Fadors make up the Cockett, and, that the Land-waiter very frequently knows nothing of the Matter, though he is obhged to the contrary by his Duty, and, as we have no DupHcate for Paper, there being no Ad: of Parliament for that Purpofe, and it being made of Rags, that are picked up in the Streets, it will be impoffible for the Printer ito fwear whether the Paper he ufca is Britijh Manufacture, or Foreign, as there is no poffi- bility for him to afcertain it. Indeed, I am averfe to the Ericreafe of Oaths, fyr, as far as 1 have been able to obferve, they do little more than increafe Perjury. Let me add, that the Britijh Manufadory of Paper is not fufficient to fupply the Confumption of that Country, and that Ireland gets fcarce any from thence, for, upon infpeding the Cuf- tom-Houfe Books, I find, large Importati- ons of Paper from Holland, but little or pone from Great Britain - I, therefore, chufe to ^l6 Debates relative to the [Day XVf. to have the Queftion put, without the A- mendment. It was, however, agreed, that the Queftion fhould be put with the Amendment, and then Mr H—S^ faid, That though he fliould have objected againfl it, as firft propdfed, yet he was now ready to give his Vote for it. Mr P— r— , the A. G. faid, tliat he could never vote for any Motion fo precipi- tately put, fo late in the Day, and fo unex- pected by the Houfe ; he faid, too, that a Refolution of the Houfe would influence many, though it would not bind them j that the Houfe was but one Part of the Legifla- ture, and had no right to do what would bind even a nngle Perfon ; that Gentlemen who had coniidered the Motion maturely in their Clofets, might be Mafters of it, and that other Gentlemen had an undoubted Right to a competent Time for confidering it, that they might be upon equal Terms with thofe who had confidered it already, and that he thought no Method fo fit for this Purpofe as the Appointment of a Committee ; but, that as it was Infifled, that the Queftion Ihould be put, he muft beg leave to put the previous Day XVI.] Affairs of iRvXA'an. 317 previous Queftion, whether it fhould be put or not. The Motion was as follows : " That from and after the firfl: Day of December next, all the Votes and Journals of this Houfe, Public Accounts, Acfts of Parliament, and other Matters to be printed by Order of this Houfe, or for the Public Ufe, fhall be printed on the beft Sort of Paper manufadiured in Great- Britaifi^ or in this Kingdom j and that no Charge for Paper to be made ufe of, after the faid firfl Day oi December^ fhall be allowed in the National Accounts, or paid by the Public, without an Affidavit made before a Magi- ilrate, by the Perfon claiming Payment, that the Paper fo charged is the Manufa(fture of Great-Britain, or of this Kingdom, or was bought from a Manufadlurer of Paper as the Manufadture of Great-Britain, or Ireland^ excepting the Statues now printing under the Diredlion of the Judges." And the previous Queflion being put, that that Queftion be now put. It pafTed in the Negative. TUBS- 3i8 Debates relative to the [Day XVII. TUESDAY, Nov, 15, 1763. SEVENTEENTH DAY. MAJOR W— B — made a favourable _ Report from the Committee appoint- ed to take the Whale Fiihery into Confide- ration, and it was ordered to be referred to the Committee of Supplies. A Report was made from a Committee, appointed to confider of Repairs, that were wanting to St Catheri7je's Church, and a Mo- tion was made that this Report fliould be re- ferred to the Committee of Supplies. This Motion was oppofed, and it was urged, that the PariQioners were able to repair their Church at their own Expence. Mr R- F-. Mr S- I have great Reafon to think. Sir, that the Parifliioncrs are not able to repair their Church at their own Expence, and, I think, that Day XVII.] ^Jairs of JRELAi^D. 319 that nothing can be more worthy the At' tention of Parliament, than the keeping the Places of Worfhip in the Metropolis in de- cent Repair. External Appearances have a great Effe(ft upon the Mind, which cannot without the utmoft Difficulty be abftradeci from fenfible Objedls, or confider the wor- fhip of God as wholly diftindt from the Cir- cumflances in which it is performed j we fhould, therefore, avail ourfelves of AfTociati- ens of Ideas, which we cannot break, and contrive that the Worfhip of God fhould bq performed in fuch Circumftances as will mofl concur to put the Mind in a proper Frame for it, and, confequently, give it a more ef- fe(flual Influence. A ferious Senfe of Reli- gion, and a confcientious Performance of its Duties, will difpofe the common People to be good Neighbours, and good Subjedls, and greatly tend to quell a contumacious and tur- bulent Spirit, which has of late fo much in- terrupted the Public quiet, and, in fome De- gree defeated the Purpofes of Civil Govern- ment. The Queflion being then put, whether the Report fhould be referred, it was carried in the Affirmative 76 againfl 60. 320 Debates relative to the [Day XVII. The Committee appointed to confider the Petition of the Minifter and Church- wardens of St Andreivs reported, that it was neceilliry to enlarge the Burial Ground of that PariOi j this Refolution of the Committee was ftrong- ly oppofed by Dr L— , who demonftrated, that the Effluvia of corrupting Bodies, thrown together in great Numbers, but juft below the Surface of the Earth, in populous Cities, could not but produce very pernicious Confequences. He obferved, that the Pracr tice of thus burying the Dead was contrary to that of all Antiquity, and of moft of the great Cities in Europe, to none of which it could be more pernicious than to Dubli?i^ as the Streets were very clofely built. The Refolution was, upon Motion, recom- mitted. 4 WED- Day XVIII.] u4ffairs of Ireland, 321 WEDNESDAY, Nov. 16, 1763. EIGHTEENTH DAY. THIS being the Day appointed for con- fidering the State of the Penfions, and how the Encreafe of them might be pre- ^nted. Mr £— *S — P — moved, that the Houfe {hould proceed upon the Bufinefs of the Day. Mr y- D MrS- No Man in this Houfe, Sir, is more fen- fible of the many Difad vantages that arife from the Encreafe of Penfions, as they are now grant- ed, than myfelf ; and an Enquiry into the State of this Grievance, and the Means of redref- fing it, is certainly a very fit Objed: of the Attention of this Houfe ; but I cannot think, Sir, that fuch an Enquiry is neceflary at this Time, becaufe we have the greatefl Reafon t0 3^2 Debates relative to the [Day XVIII,' to believe that ail tlie Advantages which could be expected from it will be obtained without it. I m«ft again mention the Af- liirance by which his Majefty has been gra- cioufiy pleafed lb anticipate Our Wiflies. He has allured us, that no Penfion for Life, or Years, fl:iall be granted for the future, except on extraordinary Occafions j and thefe are the Penfions, Sir, at which we have mofl Reafon to be alarmed ; they are permanent ; they are transfcrrable ; and they are not fub- jed to difquaUfying Laws : Gentlemen, in- deed, have faid, that every Occafion, which a Minifter fliall pretend to be extraordinary, will be fufficient to evade the Promife j and that he will have nothing more to do, when he is inclined to grant a new Penfion for Life, or Years, than to fay, that there is an extra- ordinary Occafion for it. But, Minifters, Sir, however corrupt, very feldom venture upon a bad Meafure, which they cannot veil, with a Pretence that is at leaft fpeclous, and will at the firft Glance give it the Appearance of Good ; that very Attention to their own In- tereft, which frequently leads them to betray the Interefb to the Publick mufi: neccflarily rcftrain them from open and flagitious In- fults upon the Reafon as welt as the Rights of Pay XVIIL] Affairs of Ireland. 323 of Mankind, and can any Gentleman prefent believe, that a Minifter who has a defire to reward his Pander, or his Borough Jobber, with a Penfion for Life, or Years, will have the Effrontery, or the Rafhnefs, to pretend that a Grant of fuch Penfion is upon an extraor- dinary Occafion, and, therefore, excepted in his Sovereign's Promife to his People ^ Let us, at leaft. Sir, give the AlTurance we have re- ceived a temporary Credit, and fufpend our Proceedings till the next Seffions, when, if we fee fufiicient Reafon to diftrufl: it, we may take the very Meafure that is now pro- pofed, with more Juftice, and a better Grace. At prefent, it is manifeftly premature, and wholly repugnant to the Confidence that we ought to place in his Majefty's Declaration. I, therefore, humbly move, that this Queftjoft may be poft-poned till the firft Day of nexf >/^. Mr E- S- P— . MrS , 1 remember. Sir, and fo I am fare does every Gentleman prefent, that when the Mo- tion for determining the Right of granting Penfions by a Trial at Law was rejected, it 324 Debates relatroeto the [Day XVIII, was the unanimous Opinion of this Houfe, that Penfions were fuch a Grievance, as a Committee ought to be appointed to enquire into, and confider how to redrefs j and that the Houfe did, accordingly, come to an una- nimous Refolution, to refolve itfelf into a Committee for that Purpofe on the next Ttief- day : But, as other indifpenfible Bufinefs took up great Part of that Day, it was made another unanimous Refolution of the Houfe, that the Confideration of the State of the Penfions, and how to prevent their Encreafe, iliould be undertaken this Day. But, I am forry to fay, that, notwithflanding thefe Re- folutions, I have but too much Reafon to beHeve the Sitting; of fuch a Committee was never intended j and I think it my Duty to communicate fuch Reafon of my BeUef to the Houfe. As I' was coming lall: M&?iJay from the four Courts, in my Chair, I was flopped by a particular Friend, a Gentleman of great Worth and Confcquence, who ailced me, whether I intended to go that Day to the Houfe. I anfwered, that I did not, as I kneW of: nothing that n?ade my attendance necefiary, and that, as I had been mach-fji- tigued by the Bufinefs of the Houfe, and of the Courts, I intendsd tamake that a Day of Refl : Day XVIII.] Affairs in Ireland.' 325 Rell: : He replied, '* You may not only take your Reft this Day, but every other Day of the Seffions, for Things are now fixed fo as to admit of no Alteration j no Enquiry will be made into the State of the Penfions, nor any Thing elfe done but what has been agreed upon with thofe who are to take the lead." To this I anfwered, with great furprize, that I could fcarce think what he told me was poffible. That the Houfe had been unanimous for an Examination, and had actually appointed a Committee for that Pui« pofe, but a few Days ago j that the Public expeded it, and that to difappoint them in an Expedlation fo reafonable, and on an Occafion fo important, would be wholly inconfiftent with the Dignity, as well as with the Duty of the Houfe, as the Members would then appear to be nothing more than State Pup- pets, with Wires in their Nofes, by which they were turned firft one Way, and then a- nother, juft as thofe who had the Manage* ment of them thought fit. Mr P — was here interrupted, by Mr P— » IT—, the A. G. Y 2. y\x 326 Dehdtes relathe to the [Day XVIII. Mrr . MrS— , Whatever private Converfation, Sir, the Gentleman, who fpoke laft, might have with his Friend, it is furely improper to introduce it into this Houfe ; and it is ftill more impro- per that Infinuations, fo injurious to its Mem- bers, (hould be fuppofed to have any Weight in it. I hope every Gentleman in this Houfe feels a proper Difdain at being reprefented as a Puppet, moved by the Did:ates of another's Will, and fufficient Spirit to (hew, by his Con- duct, that he a(5ts upon Principles of Freedom, and Independance, in confequence of his own Principles, and by the Determination of his own Judgment : As to the Enquiry, in Quef- tion, I Ihali, for my own Part, oppofe it, from a full Convidlion, that it is unneceflary j what could we hope more from this very Enquiry than an Alfurance from his Majefty, that he has con/idered the Grievance, and will redrefs it r and this Afiurance he has been gracioully pleafed to give us already. It is, indeed, true that this AfTurance has not come before the Houfe, with the Solemnity of a formal Mef- Dav XVIII.] uiffairsofl-R-ELA^D 327 fage, but Gentlemen feem to forget that his Majelty could not communicate it in that Manner, coniiftent with his Charadier, and Dignity. The Intimation to the Lord Lieute- nant is a Favour, and, if his Majefty is graci-^ oufly pleafed to wave his Prerogative in our behalf, are we to expecft that he fliould do it in a Way that would imply a Confcioufnefs of his having abufed it. His Majefty has, in this Inftance, treated us with a Condefcenlion and Kindnefs, of which, I may venture to fay, we have no Precedent ^ and fhall we re- turn it with Remonffcrance, and Complaint ? Shall we refufe a Favour from our gracious Prince, merely becaufe it is not offered in a Manner that would degrade himfelf ? I re- member, indeed, fomeGentlemen aiked, with a contemptuous Sneer, what this Houfe had to do with a private Converfation, at the Caf- tle J but, furely, I may now recriminate, and afk, what has this Houfe to do with a private Converfation in the Street. I had, certainly, a better Right to relate what I had heard, from the Lord Lieutenant, with a View to calm Animofities, and conciliate Affecftion, than the honourable Member, on the Bench near me, had to retail the Impertinencies of a bufy Pratler, who took upon him to foretell Y 3 the 328 Debates relative to the [Day XVIII. the Condud; of this Houfe, and impute it to diflionourable Motives^ which could tend only to excite Dilcontent, and DilafFedion, at a Time when Peace and Unanimity were efTen- tially necelTary, not only to our Profperity, but our Exigence. Upon the whole. Sir, I iliall, from the clearefl Convidion, and with the moll public and difinterefl:ed Intention, give my Voice for poftponing the Enquiry till the firfl of July. Mr £— S- P-. Mr S , i am forry to fay, Sir, that the honourable Gentlemen, who is juft fet down, would not have borne fo hard upon me, whatever he might have done upon my Friend, if he had not miftaken my meaning ; he has, in the l^recipitancy of his Zeal, fuppofed that I re- prefented the Members of this Houfe as Puppets, aduated by a concealed Power ; but, Sir, he will be convinced that I faid juft contra- ry : I faid, I could not believe what my Friend told me to be a Fad, and my Reafon was, that if it had been a Fad, the Members of the Houfe would appear to be Puppets 3 but, as I did net believe the Fad, neither did I be- lieve Day XVIII.] j4ffairs of Ireland. 329 lieve the Members of the Houfe to be Pup- pets, or to appear to be fuch ; now, Sir, whether the Fa6t related, by my Friend, was or was not true, I fliall leave the honourable Gentleman to determine, and, if it was true, I fhall alfo leave him to reconcile it to the Wifdom, Steadinefs, and Confiftency, that ought to diftinguifli fo confiderable a Branch of the Legiflature, as he can. Mr /T— B-, Mr S , Give me leave to fay, Sir, that at prefcnt this Houfe is as free from any Imputation of Diflionour, arifing from what the Gentleman who fpoke laft, let drop to his Friend, as a new-born Child would be from a Declara- tion, that if he fliould ever invade the Pro- perty of another? he would be a Thief J we have as yet been guilty of no Inconfiftency, and, like my honourable Friend, I cannot be- lieve, that we fhall : But, in what light fhall we ftand, if the following Fadls fhould be alledged againft us. " On Wednefday^ the Ninth of November ^ We agreed that the Penfions, charged on the Y 4 Civil 33^ Debates relative to the [Day XVIT}* Civil Eftablifliment, were an intolerable Grie- vance. On the fame Day, we pafTed an un- animous Rel'olution, That on the Tuefday fol- lowing, we {hould take that Grievance intci Confideration. On that Tuefda)\ we paire4 another unanimous Refolution, that we would confider the Grievance on the next Dav, and on that very next Day refolved, that we (liouid not confider the Grievance at all !" 1 fay. Sir, if this (hould be the Cafe, how can fuch Fluduation be accounted for ? by what flrange, by what miraculous Illumina- tion can we fuppofe Gentlemen to difcover inftantaneoufly, on Wednefday, that an Opi- nion, which they had formed on T^uejday^ after long Confideration and Debate, was er- roneous ? How fhall we account for Refo- lutions diametrically oppofite, pafled in the farheHoufe, and, by the fame Members, With- iii four and twenty Hours of each other ? Will there not be then fufficient Reafon to fufpedt the Influence, the mere mention of which has given fuch Offence ? Will not bur Proceedings be confidered as a folemn Mummery, and ourfelves as mere Shadows, changing Place with the Light behind us, and depending, for our very Exigence, upon It'? Day XVIII.] Affairs of Ir^ei. Ann. 331 ^t ? But this, Sir, bad as it is, is not the worft ; the Caufe of this Inconfiftency is ftill more alarming than the Inconfiftency itfelf ; whatever may be our Dependancc, it is for the Intereft of all Parties that we fhould, at leaft, appear to be free^ and, there is the greateft Reafon to fear that an Enquiry, which fuch extraordinary Methods are taken to pre- yeotj would difclofe Abufes, and Enormities, which it is of the laft Importance on one Side to conceal, and, confequently, on the other to difcover. If the PenlionS are not a Grievance, why fhould an Enquiry be pre- vented, that will fliew us our miftake ? If they are a Grievance, why fhould an Enquiry be prevented that v;^ill lead toRedrefs ? We are told, indeed, that fuch an Enquiry is preclud- ed, by an Affurance that his Majefty will grant no more Penfions for Lives, or Years, except upon extraordinary Occalion ; but, if we acquiefce in this Affurance, and if the Promife fhould be fulfilled, we fliall tacitly acknowledge a Power, to the mere forbear- ance of which we owe our Exemption from Ruin, and, under which, we muft acquiefce with filent fufferance, whenever it fhall be exerted over us. Though we may depend upon the exemplary Virtues of that moft amiable 332 Debates relative to the [Day XVIII* amiable Sovereign, whom Providence has, at prefent, fet over us, it would be romantic to hope that they will be tranfmitted to all who fhall fucceed him. It behoves us to do for our Poflerity, what our Anceftors did for us ; and, if it is poffible, fecure, as a Right, what as a Favour muft be precarious ; and proceed to an Enquiry, which we cannot now relin- quidi, without the Proflitution both of our Intereft and our Honour j an Enquiry which cannot but gratify a Prince, whole Happinefs is our Profperity, and which may reftrain any, who may hereafter delight only in the Dif- play of their own Power, and fondly endea- vour to derive Glory from Oppreffion. Mrikf- P-. MrS- I am extreamly furprized, Sir, to hear Gen- tlemen indulge themfelves in Declamations, only to repeat what has been faid already, and advance Principles that have been fliewn to be erroneous : It is, furely, taking up Time to very little Purpofe, that might be improv- ed to the Advantage of ourfelves, and the Public : It is making a Debate, once com- men- DaV XVIII.] A fairs of Ireland. 333 menced, endlefs ; and puts the bed Reafoner, in the Condition of Hercules^ ftriving with Anteus, who, the Moment he was thrown to the Ground, flarted up again with new Vigour, and gave his Antagonift the Labour of perpe- tual Conqueft, without gaining the leaft Advan- tage from his Superiority. It was irrefragably proved, in this Houfe, but a few Days ago, that the Crown had a Power of granting Pen- fions, without the Violation of any Law ; that this Power was, therefore, conflitutional ; and fo united with other Parts of the Conftituti- on, that, to fubvert it, would endanger the whole Chain, of which it was a Link. It . was proved, from our Statutes, from Hiftory, from immemorial Cuflom, from the Journals of this Houfe, not only that the granting of Penfions was legal, but that the Legality of it had never been called in Qaeftion ; and yet Gentlemen flill talk of exempting the Reve- nue from fuch Grants, as a Matter of Right, and affe(5l to talk as if nothing more was ne- cefTary to redrefs a Grievance, fuppofed to arife from thefe Grants, than to enforce Laws that have been broken, and alTert Powers that have lain dormant. We have no Way, Sir, of preventing more Penfions from being granted, but that of prevailing upon his Ma- jefty 334 Debates relative to the [Day XVIII. jefty not to do, what might be legally done j in other Words, by foliciting as a Favour, what we cannot claim as a Right : This Fa- vour, Sir, without Solicitation, is already of- fered us, and, it may reafonably be expedted, that thofe Gentlemen who are inclined not to accept it, fhould juflify their Principles, fo extraordinary and fo new, by fome Argu- ments equally new and extraordinary ; that they would, at leafl, get forward in the Dif- pute, and not, like a Horfe in a Mill, exhauft their Strength, by trotting in a Circle ; a Drudgery which the poor Beaft is always hood-winked to perform, and, in which, it is impoflible for us to imitate him, without ihutting our Eyes. Give me now leave. Sir, to obferve, that feveral Things have, in the Courfe of this Debate, been taken for grants cd, which ftill remain to be proved. We have been told that Penfions are greatly en- creafed, which is a Fa6t not to be denied j but it has been taken for granted, that Penfi- ons are a Grievance, in Proportion to this En- creafe, which is a Fallacy: Under the Pro- tedlion of thofe very Sovereigns who have en- creafed our Penfions, our Wealth is increafed in at leaft an equal Degree. If, in the Year jTOj, our Penfions amounted to 42,000/, and Pay XVIII. ] j^JairsoflR-ELAHD. 33^ and if, at prefent, they amount to 70,000/. it does not follow, that we are now in a worfe Condition than we were then, in the Proportion of 42 to 70 : Has not every Revenue, both public and private, encreafed in the fame Pro- portion ? Nay, have not the Fortunes of pri- vate Gentlemen been doubled ? Befides, Sir, Money has, finqe that Time, leflened near one Half in its Value ; fo that, although the Sum granted in Penfions is larger, the Grati- fication is not equal ; and, what the King now gives is lefs in Value than it was when we fuppofe that Grievance to have been tolerable, which we now alledge to be ruinous. There can be no Time more proper for the Difplay of Royal Munificence than the prefent ; great Opportunities for Diftin»:lion have offered du- ring a War now at an End ; and great Merit has been difplayed ; befides. Sir, our King is young ; he is juft afcended the Throne j his Heart overflows with Benevolence and Libe- rality ; and what Wonder is it, that, with fuch Claims upon his Bounty, and fuch a Difpofi- tion to beftow, he fliould have made Ibme Additions to the Penfions, which, yet, as I have obferved, do not exceed in Reality, ■vvhatever they may do in Appearance, the Qratuities beflowed by his Royal PredecefTors, in 336 Debates relathe to the [Day XVIIL in Circumftanees which lefs required them : Yet, even at this Time, and in thefe Circum- ftances, his Majefty is inclined to reftrain his own Difpofition, that he may gratify ours ; and what farther can be propofed by the En- quiry, it is impoffible for me to imagine.^ Mr R — F — faid, in reply, that he was forry to hear the Name of his Majefty io fre- quently made Ufe of in the Houfe 5 that it could not fail having' an Influence, from which the Houfe, as a third Part of the Legiflature, independant on the other two, ought al- ways to be free : That it was the more dan- gerous, in Proportion as his Majefty was the mora amiable, and would more effe<5lually fcreen a Miniftcr who had oppofite Qualities, He faid, alfo, that the mention of a Letter faid to be written by the Secretary to the Viceroy, was irregular, and of pernicious Tendency 5 and that, if it had come properly before them, it could be confidered only as the Letter of a Secretary, written to excuf6 or palliate the Advice of an unpopular and dc- hrudive Mcafure, and to prevent a con- ftitutional Enquiry into a Grievance, of which he had been the Caufe ; it was known, he fajd, that fuch an Enquiry was about to be {tl on Dav XVIII.] ^Jairs of Ikeland, 337 on Foot, (o early as the fecond Day of the Seffions, and that the Letter was written in Conlequence of that Knowledge, and with a View to effed what was now doing, the poftponing the dreaded Enquiry to a long Day. The R-t H— ble Mr P- T— , the A. G. in anfwer to this, faid, that the Affair of the Letter was intirely mif-reprefented ; that it was not written, in confequence of InteU ligence received that an Enquiry into Pen- fions would be fet on foot : But that the Lord Lieutenant, upon his firft coming into the Adminiftration, had applied to the King upon that Subjed:, with a View of doing an acceptable Service to this Country, and had obtained a Promife from his Majefly, that no more Penfions (liould be granted for Lives, or Years, except on extraordinary Occafions 5 that he communicated this Promife to the Gentlemen here, immediately upon his com- ing into this Kingdom, and that to confirm the' Promife, and give Weight to his Excel- lency's Report, his Majefty had been graciouf- ly pleafed to repeat it in a Letter, which he ordered his Secretary to write for that Pur- pofe. The 338 Debates relative to the [Day XVIII, The Order for the Day being read, upon the Motion of Sir K — C — , he fpoke to the following Effect : Sir i?_ C_. MrS— , I hope, Sir, it will not be fuppofed, that what I may offer upon this Occalion, proceeds from any partiality, either on one lide or the other : I am not inclined to fay any Thing againfl Penfioners, becaufe I was formerly upon that Lift myfelf j nor am I inclined to fay any Thing for them, becaufe I coniider my Efcape from among them as one of the mofl fortunate Circumftances of my Life. I mull confefs. Sir, that every Thing that has been faid to Day, upon the Que (lion now in Difpute, appears to me to be foreign to the Purpofe. The firft Thing propofed, by the Appointment of a Committee, is, an Enquiry into the State of Penllons ; but, I think, the State of Peniions is perfedly known already : What have we been doing, Sir, in our former Debates on this Subjeay XIX. for a certain Number of Years, which it muft do, if the Committee is not miftaken in their Report. I think, therefore, that the Report with Refped to the 7th and 8th Refolutions fliould be recommitted, that the Report of the private Committee may come again in the ufual Way, before the Houfe, and that it may then, according to the conftant Ufage of the Houfe, be referred to the Committee of Supplies. Mr R— F — faid, in reply, that there wag the greateft Reafon to conclude, that the Work at Baliy Caftle would ftand, that mofl Part of it had already ftood four Years, and the reft two, and that Stone Work, when it gave way at all, generally gave way before the Cement was hardened ; and, he obferved, that as thefe Confiderations were Inducements to pay the Money without Security, fo they would, for the fame Reafon, incline M.v Boyd to give Security, if it fhould be required, which he made no doubt of his being ready and willing to do. Upon this the 7th and 8th Refolutions, were recommitted, the Houfe not being wil- ling to bind, or to influence the Committee ef Day XX.] Affairs of iKixAi^n] 3^3 of Supplies, in the Grant of the Money, claimed by Mr Boyd, FRIDAY, Nov. 18, 1763. TWENTIETH DAY. MR R — F — reported from the Com- mittee, to whom the 7th and 8th Refolution mentioned above were recommit- ted the following Refolution : " That Hugh Boyd, Efq; deferves the Aid of Parliament, upon his giving Security, by Recognizance before the Chief Baron, ©r fome other Baron of the Exchequtff, to fupport and keep in repair, at his own Expence, the Works by him eredted at Bally Cajile, for one and twenty Years." Dr L . Mr S , This Work at Bally Cajlle, Sir, has been made a Pretence for getting Money from the Public, ever fince the Year 1721 ; and, Mr Boyd, 2^4- Dekifes relative to the [Day XX, Boyd^ upon the Payment of the laft 10,000 /. gave the fame Security that he offers now for keeping it up -, yet the whole Work went to rack, and we engaged to advance him more Money. I am told, Sir, that there was a Sand-bank on the Outfide of that Harbour, which by the Surge is now carried into it, and renders the Ground there almoft level with the reft of the Strand, and it is well known, that there is no River or other Way by which the Sand can be carried out of the Harbour ; it is certain that the Public has not profited in any Degree, by the vaft Sums that have been laid out upon the Work, and, therefore, I fliall not give my Vote to re- ward Mr Boydy for having profited himfelf. MrP— r— , theS.a Mr S— , As I happen to be perfecSlly and particu- larly acquainted with the whole Tranfadiion concerning the Coal-Mine, and Harbour of Bally Caftle, I beg the Patience of the Houfe to lay it properly before them. A Colliery was firft difcoverad at Bally Cajile, in the Year 172 1, and Mr Steward, the Gentleman in whofe Eftate it lay, obtained a Grant from Par- Day XX.] Affairs of iRELANt). 355 Parliament of 2000 /. to aflift him in work- ing it 5 he obtained 2000/. more in the next Seffions, and another 2000 /. in the Seffions following. All this Money was expended in finking Shafts, and in other Works necef- fary to open and work the Colliery, which was of very great Advantage to Mr Steward^ and to the Neisrhbourhood, but no Advan- tage could accrue from it to the Public, ex- cept a proper Harbour could be made at Baily Caftle^ for exporting the Coals to diffe- rent Parts of the Kingdom j this being re- prefented to Parliament, 5000 /. was granted in one Seffions, and 5000 /. more in another, to make fuch an Harbour j but thefe Sums being found infufficient, 10,000 /. was grant- ed afterwards, at which Time Mr Boyd, to whom the Property of the Coal Mine had defcended, entered into Security to compleat the Work without farther Aid : But, not- withftanding this vaft Expence, amounting to no lefs than 26,000 /. tending principally to in- creafe Mr Boyd's private Fortune, and,notwith- ftanding the Security he had given, the whole Work fell to Pieces. But, after this Dif- appointment of the Public, and after this Forfeiture of his Engagement, he applied a-- ^ain to Parliament, in the Year 1759, for A a tarth^r 35^ Debates relative to the [Day XX. farther Aid : It is true, indeed, that he did not defire any Money in Advance, but he de- fired that if he compleated the Work, he fhould be re-imburfed his Expence. It is alledged, that the Parliament yielded to this Requeft, and plighted their Faith to repay him fuch Sums as he fliould lay out in the Work, upon Conditions that are now fulfill- ed ; but I do not find this Allegation fupport- ed by fufficient Proofs and, I think, con- lidering the vafl Sums that had before been thrown away upon the fame Project, and the Inefficacy of the Security that had been given, it is not very likely to be true : Plowever, he is now come with his Claim, and expeds that the Public fhould pay for a Work, which will immenfely encreafe his Eftate j this is a Meafure, in which I can never concur, and, if I thought it reafonable, that he ihould, in any Manner be re-imburfed the Sums that he has laid out for his own Advan- tage, I would propofe, that the Money (hould be raifed among thofe who fhare the Advan- tage with him, the Neighbourhood, which would have been furniihed with Coals from his Mine, if the Harbour had never exifted ; and by a Toll to be paid by the Shipping, that come into, and go out of the Harbour. The Day XX.] Affairs of Ireland. 'i^y The keeping tlie Harbour of Dublin clear is certainly a public Benefit, yet that is not done by an univerfal Tax, but by Methods, which, I think, may be very properly adopt- ed in the prefent Occafion. Mr y- J5— ,aC— r. Mr S , I very readily admit, Sir, that the Colliery at Bally Caftle has been an Object of Parli'a- , mentary Attention for many Years j and,' I ^think it is impoflible to. bring a ftronger Proof that it is of national Importance; the only Thing to be confidered, in my Opinion, is, whether the Harbour is, at. length, what the Wifdom of Parliament has been (^ dt- Urous to make it. If it is, fcarce any ' Sum can be called large, that has, or fliall be paid for that Purpofe, compared with the im- menfe Wealth that is annually drained from this Kingdom for Coals, or with the Benefit the Public will derive from our fupplying that Commodity to ourfelves. By the Account of Coals brought from Bally Caftle^ the lafl Year, it appears that there was a faving to the Nation of at leaft 10,000/. and it may A a 2 eafily 35^ Debates relatrce to the [Day XX. eafily be demonftrated, that the Trade mud encreafe every Day. It is true, tliat the Work lias not proceeded with an uninterrup- ted Succefs, and, confidering its Nature, it would have been a Miracle if it had -^ build- ing a Harbour is an undertaking that is not executed twice in an Age, and thoie con- cerned in it, having, confequently, no expe- riental Knowledge, miftake and mifcarriage are almoft inevitable ; the Lofs, however, that has accrued in carrying on the Works of Bally Cajilc^ arofe neither from mifma- nngement nor miftake ; but from an Event which no Sagacity could forefee, and which neither Diligence, nor Skill could remedy. The Worm, common in the Wcfi hidieSy but hitherto unknown in Europe^ got into, and deftroyed the Wooden Frame, on which the Mafonry was conftru(fted in the fame Man- ner as it is in all Works of the like Kind ; if it had not been for this Accident the Work would, in the Opinion of unexceptionable Judges, have ftood for Ages j and, by the Ac- counts that have from Time to Time been £;lven into this Houfe, by the Perfons intruft- ed with the Money that has been granted to carry on the Work, they appear to have laid it out with Integrity and Oeconomy. I will not 'An Day XX.] Affairs of Ireland. 359 not deny, that the Work is of Advantage to the Undertaker; but it is of much greater Ad- vantage to the Public ; and, furely, it would l>e unjuR, that the Public fhould withold from him a P^eward for the Service he has rendered it, merely becaufe a private Ad- vantage accrues to him from the fame A6t : It is the great Art, and the great Duty of Government, to make Duty co-incide with Intereft, and thus unite the Advantage of the Individual with that of the Community. The Government has very wifely allotted a Reward for apprehending Robbers -, and if a Man (hould feize a Thief as he wa5 going off with his Booty, and thus recover what he had flolen, would it not be very injurious to deny this Man the Reward, upon Pretence that he was a fufiicient Gainer by the Adl already, in recovering the Property that he would otherwife have loft ? It is certainly our Intereft to encourage thofe, who ri/k their private Fortune in Undertakings of pub- lic Utility, independant of the private Advan- tage they may obtain by their Succefs ; and, lam, therefore, of Opinion, that Mr Boyd^ having fucceeded, fliould be re-imburfed his Expences, which, if he had not fucceeded, would have fallen upon himfelf, A a 3 Mr 360 Debates relative to the [Day XX. Mr 7?— F — , in reply to Dr L — , faid, that he was furprized to hear one of the Re- prefentatives of the Capital objed:, to the Re- imburfing of Mr Boyd^ as that City profited more by the Work than any other Part of the Kingdom ; he was fure, he faid, that the Price of Coals was already reduced by it, as feveral Ships from Bally Cajlle^ had arrived with Coals but a few Days ago. Dr h — replied, that though he thought himfelf under the greateft Obligation to the City of 'Dublin, for making Choice of him for one of its Reprefentatives, yet he fhould be very fory to have it thought that he would fliew any Partiality to it, at the Expence of the Reft of the Kingdom j he added, that for his Part, he had as yet experienced none of the good Effeds of the Harbour, and Col- liery at Bally Cajlle^ for, that Coals were as dear as ever j and he thought it time enough to pay for public Service, when the Public experienced that they had been ferved. It was then urged, that the private Com- mittee was impovvered only to enquire into, and report jhe State of the Harbour of Bally Caftle Day XX.] j^fairs of Jkel and, 361 Ca/Iky and not to report that Mr Boyd de- ferved the Aid of ParHament. That it would, therefore, be irregular, and a bad Precedent for the Houfe to agree to that Re- folution, befides having an undue Influence on the Committee of Supplies. It was, therefore, propofed, that the Re^ folution fliould be recommitted. And it ' was ordered to be recommitted accordingly. A a 4 S A- 362 J^ebates relative to the [Day XXI. SATURDAY, A/c-u. 19, 1763. TWENTY -FIRST DAY. TH E Houfe, according to Order, re- folved itfelf into a Committee, to conr lider the Supplies, and the Lord Lieutenant's Speech. The R— t H— ble A— M— took the Chair as Chairman. Mr P— "T— , the A. G. laid before the Committee, an Account of the Supplies that would be abfolutely neceflary to carry on the King's Bufinefs ; and he particularly diftin- gijiihed the Sums neceflary for the Military Eftablifliment, for the Civil Eftablifhment, and, for the Payment of the Intereft on the National Debt ; He then, faid, that in con- fequence of the Expences, necelTarily attend- ing a burdenfome though fuccefsful War, the Parliament had granted a Power to the Crown, to raife 950,000 /. partly by Aids, and partly by Vote of Credit, but that it had not been found neceflary to raife more than 650,000 /. Day XXI.] ^j/W^ Ireland. 36^ 650,000 /. for which Infereft was agreed to be given at five per Cent., He then propo- fed that 100,000/. which had been lent free of Intereft for the firft Year, fhould fland at five per Cent, that the other Debentures fhould be thrown together; that 350,000/. fhould be drawn at four per Cent, and the Refl re- main at five ; but, that the Debentures at four fhould be lafb paid off: He then made a Computation of the Interefl-, and added the Amount to the Civil and Military En:ablifh- ment : He alfo computed the Amount of the hereditary Revenue, and the additional Du- ties, at a Medium for fourteen Years, and, de- ducting this Amount with that of the Loan Duties, from the Sum to be raifed, fliewed how much would remain for incidental Char- ges, the King's Letters, and the Improvement of the Country. He begged Leave to ob- ferve, that, of the Money borrowed, there re- mained in the Treafury 1 30,000 /. fo that the National Debt could not be flatedat more than 520,000 /. He then flated the Amount of the Military EflabHfliment in 1754, fince which Time, feveral Regiments had been fent from that Eflablifliment to America^ and, faid, that, although the mih'tary E- ftablifliment did now much exceed that A- mount 364 Debates relative to the [Day XXI. mount, yet that the Increafe could not reafon- ably be objedied to, if it was confidered that Part of it arofe from the Addition of Dra- goon's Pay J that the Number of Regiments, and the Staff, were alio encreafed, and an ufe- ful Body oF Artillery added. All thefe Aug- mentations, and Additions, he faid, were ab- folutely neceffary, and fuch as the Country could much better bear now, than it could bear the Eftablifhment of 1754 at that Time, though the Amount of that Eftablifliment was lefs ; and in this Opinion he hoped the Committee would concur. He obferved, however, that, before the Motion was made for complying with the ufual Grants for the Supply, it would be necelTary to put a Quef- tion on the State of the National Debt. It was, therefore, moved, that it was the Opini- on of the Houfe, that the National Debt was 520,000/. To this it was objedled, that, if the neat Debt was fuppofed to be 520,000 /. the Sum that remained, after deducting 130,000/. the Money ftill in the Treafury unfpent, from 650,000 /. the grofs Debt, the Nation would not get Credit for the 5000 /. Poundage on the Day XXI. Affairs of Ireland. 365 the 200,00/. borrowed by a Vote of Credit. {^See the Debates of the ninth Day.) Mr M— then faid, that he muft put the Queftion on the lefs Sum, and, therefore, mo- ved, that it was the Opinion of the Commit- tee, that the National Debt amounted to 5 1 5,000 /. at Lady-Day lafl. Mr R— Fitz-G — replied, he was well informed, and fully perfuaded, that the Vice- Treafurers had an undoubted Right, by Law, to the Poundage in Queftion, and had adlu- ally received it : He added, that now to de- prive them of it, by a Refolution of a Com- mittee of the whole Houfe, would be contrary to all Juftice : That if their Right was doubt- ful, it fhould be tried in a Court of Law, and left to the Determination of fuch Court. Mr J— Fitz-G—, and Mr P— T-, the A. G. declared themfelves to be of the fame Opinion. Mr F— G — faid, that, as the Houfe had not only acquiefced in the Vice- Treafurer's appropriating the 5000 /. but con- firmed it, he thought that the fetting afide by a fubfequent Law, what a prior Law had ear- ned into Execution, would be attended with much ^66 Debates relathe to the [Day XXI. much worfe Confequences than the Lofs of the Money. And the A, G. faid, that as he had not the leaft Doubt of the Vice-Treafu- rers' being entitled fo the Money which had been allowed them, he could not think it pru- dent to put the Public to the Expence of a Suit. The Queftion being then put on the lefs Sum, it palTed in the Negative, ^^ againft 57. And the Queftion being then put on the larger Sum, it pafTed in the Atfirmative, Ne- mine Contradicente. A Motion was then made, that the Com- mittee fliould agree to grant the u/uai Sup- plies, which produced the following Debate : Mr E— S— P-. I think. Sir, that our agreeing to grant a grofs Sum,' under the Denomination of ufual Supplies, will preclude us from the Advanta- ges of objedting to the Grant of Money for any particular Purpofe. It is the Cuftom, Sir, of another Country, to mention every Eflab- Day XXL] Affairs of Ireland. 367 Eftablifhment particularly, and provide for it as the Houfe thinks proper, after a feparate Confideration ; and I therefore intend to move for an Amendment in the Motion, and that the Word necejjary fhould be inferted^ inftead of the Word iifiial -, and then, what- ever Sums may not be thought necejjary^ and whatever Modes may not be thought proper, may admit of Debate ; Gentlemen will have an Opportunity to offer their Thoughts upon the Subjedt, and a better Regulation may take Place. As to what the honourable Gentle- man on the Floor has faid, .with Refped: to ftating the military Eftabliihment, I fliall beg Leave to obferve, that, I think, the lafl: mili- tary Eftablifliment, for a time of Peace, fhould not have been ftated from any particu- lar Year j if it is flated for the two Years 1752 and 1753, and for the two Years 1754 and 1755, and fo, at a medium, it will be found lefs than the prefent Eftablifliment, which is alfo a military Eflablidiment in Time of Peace, by a much more confiderable Sum. Now, Sir, I Oiall endeavour to fliew that the prefent Eftablifliment is not neceffary for any good Purpofe, either to us, or our fifler Country, for I iliall always confidcr our Inter- efts as united, and I (hall alfo endeavour to fluew 368 Debates relattve to the [Day XXI. /hew, that, whatever ufeful Purpofe it may be fuppofcd to an Twer, it miift incur Difad vanta- ges much more than equivalent^ by taxing us above our Ability. In the firft Place,^it will, I fuppofe, be readily granted, tliat the Milita- ry EftabiiQimentj dudng the Peace that was concluded at Aix-la-Chapelle^ was fufficient for that Time ; and I fliould be glad to know why the fame Eftablifliment is not fufficient for this. Has this Peace left us in lefs Secu- rity, or is it likely to be of lefs Duration ? As we have been lately taught to think the con- trary, by AlTurances of the higheft Authority, this cannot be fuppofed j and, if any Gentle- man prefent, can fuggeft another Reafon, why the Military Eflablifliment, that was fufficient then, is not fufficient now, I (hould be glad to hear it. But it has been faid, Sir, that we are now better able to bear the prefent Eftab- llfliment, than we were to bear an Eftabliffi- ment fo much lefs, when it took place. Now I muft, in the firft place, beg leave to ob- ferve, that, allowing this to be true, it cannot be fuppofed to juftify the Exceedings of the prefent Eftabliihment, if fuch Exceedings cannot be proved to be neceflary j for I Ihould be very forry to think any Gentleman in this Houfe imagined that our rjare Ability to fuf- tain Day XXL] y4ffairsof Irela^nd. 369 tain a Burthen, was a fufficient Reafon for laying it on. But, by what Powers of Elo- quence are we to be perfuaded that our Abili- ty is greater ? At theConclufion of the Peace oi Aix-La-Chapclle, in the Year 1749, Mo- ney was accumulating in the Treafury, as ap- peared from a Surplus that will not eafily be forgotten : The hereditary Revenues, as well as the additional Duties, were encreafing ; the Article of Management v/as much lower ; and the Lift of Penfions was comparatively fmall ; Employments, and their Salaries, were within narrower Bounds j there were no Ex- ceedings in the Concordatum, and extraor- dinary fecret Services were not thought necef- fary. But, at prefent, Sir, our Treafury is not only exhaufted, but we are encumbered with a Debt of 520,000 /. the Intereft of which our beft Calculators have been ex- tremely puzzled in contriving to pay ; the Lift of Penfions is enormous j many new and ufe- lefs Employments have been created, and the Salaries of the old ones greatly encreafed j many more Perfons, of great Property, are be- come Abfentees ; the Revenues of the Crown, during the laft Year, have decreafed more than 40,000 /. and will, probably, decreafe ftill more; and the Management of them is, not- with- %j6 Debates relative to the [Dav XX t witliftanding, regulated upon a larger Scale. We have read, Sir, very extraordinary Ac- counts of Etoquence, and Accounts ftiU more extraordinary of Mufic : We have read, Sir, that Amphionh Mufic influenced the Stones to dance into a Wall j and this Feat, I be- lieve, {lands hitherto unrivalled by any Pour- crs of Eloquence ; yet, I think, he that can perfuade us that we are richer, when we are not only without Money, but in Debt, than we v^ere when we were not only out of Debt, but had a conliderable Sum lying by us, will fairly turn the Scale in favour of Eloquence againfl: Mufic, and efFed a greater Wonder than AmphioUy who built Thebes with his Harp. The military Eflablilhment Is faid. Sir, to be a neceffary Preparative for War j but can that prepare us for War, which tends . to deftroy our Exiftence ? Are we to be pre- pared for War by a Drain of Taxes, which will exhauft, and more than exhauft us, du- ring Peace ? The beft Way o'l improving Peace into an Ability for War, is the Cultiva- tion of Arts, the Extent of Trc.de, and the Practice of Oeconomy ; for this only can in- ;| vigorate the Root, of which all the Modes of national Defence are Branches. I am adiam- ed, Sir, to defcend to Particulars, after fo ge- neral Pay XVil.] AffhirsoflvLEi.A^'b. 371 neral a Confutation of what has been faid in favour of our prefcnt Eftablldiment ; and yet, left It (hould be pretended that Particulars were pafied over, becaufe they were not un- derftood, I fliall beg leave to obferve, that, as Matters are now managed, the ufual E-^ rLabli{l:iment of 12,000 Men will coft us con- fiderably more than formerly, without produ- cing one fingle^ Advantage. Thefe 12,000 Men, Sir, are now formed into fix more Re- giments than they ufed to be, and the Num^* ber of Officers is, confequently, greatly in- ereafed j this increafes Expence, and it alfo increafes Dependants, which cannot be pre- tended, I think, to be national Benefits: Itis^ however, pretended, that, when a War fliall break out, thefe Regiments may be cafily re- cruited, and a neceffary Number of Men raifed without forming new ones j and that the Offi- cers, which are now faid to be fupernumerary, will be better able to difcipline the Men, than young Gentlemen juft taken into the Service: But, if the Peace continues long, the Expence of thefe Officers, till they can be ufcful, will be more than equivalent to the Ufe they will be of on the Approach of a War, even fup- pofing they will then be as ufeful as is pre- tended i but I think it is eafy to (hew thatthis ^ b will 372 Debates relathe to the [Day XXf. will not be the Cafe : Officers that have grown old in a State of liftlefs Inadivity, du- ring a long Peace, who have been ufed only to lounge about at Country Quarters, without any Thing either to think of, or to pradlife, but Expedients ta kill Time, naturally grow difiatisfied with their Profeffion, and get a Habit of negleding the Duties of it, by hav- ing little Duty to do ; and it is not reafona- ble to believe, that, upon an Augmentation^ Gentlemen in thefe Circumftances, and under thefe Habits, will exert themfelves with fa much Zeal aiid Adivity^ • as young Men, warmed with a Spirit of Enterprize, new to the Profeffion, and pleafed with the Splendor and Parade of it, when their Service is requir- ed : and, as to the Ability of difciplining the new Troops, every Gentleman, who has the leaft Acquaintance with military Affiiirs, knows, that the difciplining Recruits gene- rally falls to the Share of non-commiffioned Officers, and, therefore, that there is no need of an expenfive Train of commiffioned Offi- cers for that Purpofe. Let me alfo, upon this Occafion, obferve, that, during the lafk War, the new raifed Regiments diftinguifned themfelves as nobly as any of the Veterans of the Field, and that the Englijh Militia were remark- t) AY XXL] Affairs of lRV.hAi^Tf. 373 remarkably well difciplined. I come, now, to confider the Staff, and, as that Teems to have been enormoufly encreafed, without any Pretence of Advantage, the Trouble of (hew- ing fuch Pretences to be fallacious, is preclud- ed. I fliall only obferve, that the Eftablifli- mentin England'vs, 17,600 Men, and the E- flablil]]ment here but 12,000, but yet that the Staff here is double to the Staff in England : If in England the Staff is fufRclent, I fhould be glad to know why it is to be fo much more here j the Difproportion is immenfe ; if the Staff upon 12,000 was only equal to that up- on i7j6oo, the Difproportion would be great j but, if the Staff upon 12,000, is double to that upon 17,600, there mufl certainly be fome Reafon for it, very different from mere military Advantage. I am unwilling to fug- gefl that Reafon, and, indeed, it is fo obvi- ous, that it need not be fuggefted ; efpecially as moft, if not all the general Officers, are Abfentees. As to the Ordnance, which is another heavy Article of our Expence, hav- ing encreafed no lefs than 26,000/. I confefs myfelf wholly unable to conceive what End it can anfwer : We have no Fortifications, as I know of, to defend ; and, I am informed, upon very good Authority, that all this Ord- B b 2 nance 374 Debdtei relative to the [Day XXt. nance does not include as many Cannon as would mount a thirty-Gun Ship : There are, however, no lefs than twelve Clerks belong- ing to that Board, and it has, in every Re- fped, the lame Eltahlifhment, as to Officers, with that in Englmid -^ with all this it is liable to no Check, nor is it included in the Muf- ter-Office: At prefent, I confefs, this is not much to be regretted, for, I am perfuaded, the noble Earl, who now prefides in this De- partment, will take Care to have the Duty effecftually done, and the Corps kept com- plete. It is, indeed, a happy Circumftance for us, that he has been appointed to this Sta- tion, as well on Account of the Integrity and Uprightnels of his Character, as on Account of his redding and fpending his Fortune a- mong us : But if the Corps lliould go into the Hands of another Commander, who may, probably, be of another Country, the Differ- ence will be very much to our Difadvantage. The Commander has a Power of filling up all the Employments, except fix, which will then, probably, be given to Perfons who re- fide on the other Side of the Water, and the whole Corp?, being fubie(^ to no Check, might do what they pleafed. As the milita- ry Eftablifhment, therefore, appears to me to be Day XXI.] ' ylffliirs of Ireland. 375 be, ill every Refped:, inconfiftent with the National Iiitereft, and to be equally abfurd and pernicious, both in a general and particu- lar View, I muft beg leave to move, that the Word nece[jary may be inferted in (lead of the Word iifiiaL Mr P— r-,the A.G. To the Amendment now propofed by the Honourable Member, I have two Objed:ions ; I think it is, in itfelf, improper; and, I con- jfefs, I cannot conceive that it can aafwer any End. It is certain, that, in a neighbouring Country, a Supply is feparately voted for e* very particular Part of the Eftablifliment, and there it feems to be very proper, becaufe the Supplies are granted every Year : But here the hereditary Revenue is a ftandiiig Fund for the Exigencies of Government, whatever they may be ; and the additional Duties are voted only as an Aid to that Fund, and are, there- fore, confidered as included in it : The Sup- plies, therefore, are always voted in one Ag- gregate, and I do not fee how they can be voted otherwife. I cannot, however, com- prehend how this Mode of granting the Sup- plies, can deprive us of the Advantage of ob- B b 3 jedling 37^ Debates relative to the [Day XXI. jeding to particular Parts of the Eftablifh- ment, which may be thought improper or unneceiTary. If the honourable Gentleman thinks 12,000 Men too many, he may objed: to the Sum appropriated to the Payment of them J and, if it be the Senfe of the Houfe, that a fmaller Number of Men will be fuffi- cient, a lefs Sum will, confequently, be voted. The fame Thing may be done with Refpedl to the Officers, the Ordnance, and every other Part of the Eftabliiliment ; nor does the Mo- tion already made, in any Degree preclude it. The Amendment propofed, I think, is alfo improper in itfelf j for, if the Word neajjary is fubflituted inflead of the Wor.d iifual^ it will imply that fomething unneccjjary had been propofed. As to my making Choice of the Year 1754, in flating the Difference be- tween the prefent Peace EftablKhment, and that fubfequent to the Treaty of Aix-la-Cha- pelle^ I thought myfelf warranted in it, as that Year was, very nearly, a Medium be- tween the Conclufion of the Treaty, and the breaking out of the lad War. I muft alfo beg leave to obferve, that there are feveral un- avoidable Caufes of the Increafe of the prefent Eftabliihraent, which he has not confidered. The Pay of the Dragoons was incrcafed by a Vote Day XXL] y4fairs of Ireland. 377 Vote of this Houfe 5 there is a half Pay Lift which amounts to 32,000/. a Year, and an additional Staff was added to the Regiment of Dragoons ; if thefe Sums are deduded, he will find the Encreafe of the Eftablifliment by no means fo large as he would fuggeft. As to the Mode of fixing the Eftablifliment, it has, upon very mature Confideration, been adopted by a neighbouring Country ; and, as I am informed, approved by Perfons of the greateft military Experience. As the Increafe of our Expence, therefore, is not fo unaccoun- table as he fuppofes, neither is it fo burthen- fome : Let us confider the Amount of the Sums which we have voted for interior Im- provements, and, from that, infer our pecuni- ary Ability. In the two ScfTions before the Year 1753, 400/. in each Seflions was thought a fufficient Bounty for public Works : In the Year 1753, when there was a Surplus in the Treafury, no lefs than 30,000/. was granted in fuch Bounty, and 40,000/. more the Seffi- ons after wai ds, fo that from that Time to this, I cannot think there has been lefs than 400,000 /. granted for the Improvement of this Country, which, perhaps, is more than any other Nation in Europe has allotted to the fame Purpofe, confidering the Difference of B b 4 Extent 573 Debates relative to the [Day XXt. Extent and Revenue. Now, Sir, if we are able to expend fuch Sums upon other Objedls, of National Advantage, how comes it that we are crufhed at once by the Increafe of our military Eftablifhment ? As this Increafe a* rifes from the Execution of a Plan that has been approved by the beft Judges, as mofhef- fed:ual for our Defence, it lliould, in my O- pinion be confidered as neceflary to a Scheme for promoting National Advantages, and come in for its Share of the Sums allotted to public Works : Beiides, Sir, as I would not fuppofe that the vaft Sums granted for the Improvement of this Country have been ex- pended without Improving it, I mud: con- clude, that our Abilities, after Improvements adequate to fuch Sums, are proportionably greater than they were before, and that our Country is at once better worth defending, and more capable to provide for its Defence. I will add, Sir, that in Proportion as it is bet- ter worth defending, it is more likely to be attacked, and, for that Reafon, a more effec- tual Defence is necefl'ary ; what is worth keeping, is worth taking away, and our Dan- ger from without, increafing in Proportion to our interior Profperity, our Preparations for Defence fliould alfo proportionally en- creafe, T^AvXXi.] Affairs of Ireland. "^yg creafe, and the fame Circumftances that fur- nifh the Reafons for thefe Preparations, will alfo abundantly furnifh the Power. To con- elude, Sir, let me appeal from Argument to Experience ; every Gentleman prefent, has a pieafing Demonflration of the Encreafe of our public Wealth, by the Encreafe of his private Fortune, and, I call upon all that hear me, to declare whether, in general, it is not more than equivalent to the increafed Ex- pence of our Military Eftablifliment, which has, with all the Pathos of Exaggeration, been reprefented as an Inundation, or an Earth- quake, that was to fweep us from the Face of the Earth, or to bury us in its Bowels ; for thefe Reafons, I fhall Vote to have the Quef- ilion put, as I propofed it. The R— t H— ble W- G— H—. I am very forry. Sir, to find myfelf under a Neceffity of differing, as well from my honourable Friend near me, as from the ho- nourable Gentleman on the Floor, whofpoke lad : In my Opinion, Sir, the prefent Peace- Eftablifliment fliould be compared with that of the Year 1751, as that Year and the pre- fent are the Years immediately fubfequent to the 3 So Debates relative to the [Day XXI. the Treaties of Peace, and, I muft obrerve, that particular Circumftances, or Exigencies, peculiar to either Year, are not to be confi- dered as Parts of the general Plan, nor is the Expence which they might make neceffary, to be confidered as an Expence eilential to fuch Plan. Now, I do not find that the Ex^ pence of the prefent Peace-Eftablilhment, ex-f ceeds that of the Peace-EftabHfliment, in the Year 1751, more than 111,000/. Out of the Staff which makes part of that Sum, we muft iirft dedud the Sum of 5500 /. an addi- tion to the Salary of the Lord Lieutenant ; and the Sum of 4000 /. an addition to the Sa- lary of the Secretaries, making together 9500A we mufl dedud: the half- pay Lift which a^ mounts to 32,000 /. and the additional Pay to the Dragoons, which amounts to 20,000 /. more, with the increafed pay to the Deputy Quarter-Mafter, Adjutant-General, and other neccffary Staff" Officers, fo that the Encreafe of the Eftablifliment cannot be reckoned at quite 50,000 /. As to the Staff, I muft acknow- ledc^e, that it is heavier here than in England y but, I think, it is eafy to convince every candid and difpafiionate Mind, that it muft be fo •, there is not a fufficient Number of Gentlemen refident in Ireland, and properly quali- Pay XXL] Affairs in Ireland. 3S1 qualified to furniih the Staff; as a Staff, there- fore, is effentially necelTary, it muft be form- ed of Gentlemen who have Regiments in England^ and Seats in the Parliament there, with other Appointments, which make theic Attendance in that Kingdom indifpenfibly neceffary ; fo that if the Staff confiited only of the neceffiry Number, fuppofing the whole to be refident, the Bulineis could nevef go on, fome being always unavoidably ab- fent ; that a fuilicient Number, therefore, may be refident. to tranfad: the Bufinefs here, it is neceffary that the Staff fhould confiil: of Super-numeraries. I muff now obferve, that though the conftitutional Eftablifliment, in the Year 17 51, was 12,000 Men, yet there was at that Time but 11,500 Effedives kept up J but as we now keep up the whole Number, the Expence of 500 Men muft be dedudied from the 50,000 /. which the pre- fent Eftablilhment is fuppofed to exceed the Eftablidiment of 1751. But it is objeded, that, in the prefent Eftablifhment, there is a great Increafe of Officers ; I admit the Fad, but, I think It by noMeans unjuftifiable 3 Gen- tlemen, that are not experimentally acquainted with military Affairs, may fuggeft what they pleafe, but thofe that are, know that an Ar- my 382 Debates relative to the [Day XXI. my receives very great Advantages from a numerous Commiiiion. Officers that have been trained in the Service muft have a Skill that young Officers cannot have, and, allow- ing that Recruits are difciplined, chiefly, by non-commiffioned Officers, it is necefTary that the commiffioned Officer fliould have fome Experience, in order to fee the non- commiffioned Officers do their Duty, and to know when it has efFed:ually been done. Befides the Gentlemen who have Commiffi- ons under the prefent Eftabliffiment, were before in the Service, and, if they had not been taken into the Forces that were kept on Foot at the Conclufion of the Peace, when their own Corps were diftanded, they mufl have received Half-pay j fo that we have the whole Advantage of their Service for the ad-^ dional Half-pay, which they receive upon being employed ; neither is the Difproportion between the Officers and private Men fo great as appears at firfl Sight, when Allow- ance is made for the Redudion of a Com- pany from every Regiment, and a Man from every Company and Troop, which Al- lowance will reduce our Commiffion, nearly, to the fame Plan that has been adopted in Epigland, From this exceeding of 50,000/, we Day XXI.] Affairs of Ireland. 383 we muft alfo dedudl the Increafe of the Artillery, and the only Queftion will be, whether that Increafe is neceffary. Now, Sir, the State of the Artillery, before the pre- fent Regulation took place was wretched in the higheft Degree. Upon the little Alarm that was fpread by the ralh and hopelefs At-r tempt of Thurotj 3. Train of Artillery was marched to Newry^ and another was fent to Clonmel; but, neither of thofe Trains had fifty Men with them as a Guard, nor was there one of thofe that were with them, that knew how to fire a Gun ; it is, therefore, very clear thatfome Regulation was necefiary, and that which has been fo much complain- ed of, fcarce makes our Artillery proportio- nate to our Eftablifhment of 12,000 Men. The Artillery Company confifls of 400 Men, which coft 26,000/. a Year; now in Eng- Jandy where the Army confifts vf 17,600; the Train of Artillery confids of 1 500 Men, which cofls 150,000 /. a Year ^ fo that con- fider this Eftablifhment as you pleafe, it will be found neither difproportionate in itfelf, with Refped: to its feveral Parts, nor to the Ability of the Country, nor to the Service it is to perform ; it has been iaid, indeed, not to be adequate tq the Service, and that it could not 384 Debates relativeto the [Day XXI. not furnifh Cannon to a thirty-gun Ship, and this 1 am willing to admit, at prelent, be* caufe it is in its Infancy, but the very Objec- tion fliews a better State to be deiirable, and it is making its Progrefs towards a better State every Day. Upon the whole, Sir, I am perfuaded that 12,000 Men cannot reafon- able be thought too maay, and that 1 2,000 Men could not poffibly be put under a better Regulation. Mr H— F— . I obferve. Sir, that the honourable Gen- tleman, who Ipoke lad, among other Expe- dients to reconcile us to the enormous Ex^ pence of our military EHiablirnment, has ob- ferved, that, in many Inftances, it is the fame as in Great Britain ; but, furely, if we take Jiim at his Wo''d there needs no other Proof that it is an Expence which wc cannot pof- fible fuftain ; how is it poflible, Sir, that this miferable Country, precluded from every advantageous Branch of Trade, imall in ex- tent, and three fourths of it unpeopled, a Country that feels itfelf finking under a Debt of 600,000 /. the mere Interefl of wliich it has puzzled our moft able Calculator's to pay, how I Day XXL] Afcji/s of Ire lakd. 385 how is it pofiible. Sir, that this Country fhould keep pace with Great Britain, the moft flourifhing and moft opulent Nation under Heaven, with a Trade that covers the Sea, and bufies the moft diftant Parts of the Earth ; of great extent in comparifon with this inferior Spot, fwarming with Inhabitants, and abounding with Money ; a Nation that fuftains a Debt of 150,000,000 /. of which it pays the Intereft without giving up one Luxury, or neglecting one interior Improve- ment ? That we fhould be expected to pay for public Eftabhrhments, after the fame Rate as this mighty Nation is furely unreafonable in the higheft Degree j but the honourable Gentleman has gone farther. Sir, he has al- lowed that in fome Articles we pay after a ftill dearer Rate, even than Great Britai?i -, he has allowed, Sir, that our Staff is fuperior, and he has alledged that it ought to be fo, for a Reafon that exhibits our Situation in the moft mortifying and alarming View. Deplorable, indeed, is the Condition of that Country, which is under the unhappy Ne- ceftity of paying twenty Servants, that it may be ferved by ten, at the fame Time that the Wages even of the ten, amounts to more than it can afford to pay. We have been told, ^^6 Debates relative to the [Day XXf. told, Sir, that we mufi: pay a numerous Staff*, becaufe fome will be always abfent, and becaufe it is necelTary that a certain Number Ibould refide j now, Sir, it will appear, that after an unrealbnable Sum has been exacted from us to pay many, as the only Condition upon which we can be ferved by few, thofe few render us no Service at all j it is well known, Sir, that our whole Staff is abfentj notwithftanding the Refidence of a certain Part is fuppofed to be indifpenfibly necefTary, and, notwithftanding, we are to pay for the Refidence of that Part at fo enormous a Price : The Injury, therefore, that we fuffer by this Mcafure, is the moft complicated and aggra- vated that can be imagined ; wt pay a double Number, that we may have the Service of half; the Service of half is abfolutely necef- fary, but the Service of half is not rendered us, and it is not rendered, becaufe thofe whom we pay for it are, with others, whom we alfo pay for doing nothing, fpending oup Money in another Country ! I would not be thought. Sir, to exaggerate Fads by ima- ginary Circumftances, or give them a more formidable appearance by Rhetorical Flou- rifhcs } when General Officers on the Staff were wanted here at the Redudion of the Troops, Day XXL] ^Jhirs of Ireland. 2^1^ Troops, there was not one to be found, and we were under a Ncceflity of hiring other Generals to do their Bufinefs j and fliall we tamely confent to continue in a Situation at once fo oppreffive and ridiculous ? Shall we contradt Debts of which we can neither pay Principal, nor Intereft, that we may maintain a Number of Servants, whom we never fee, in Idl-. nefs and Luxury, and, at the fame Time, hire Men by the Day to wait at our Table ? There is one Article, indeed, in which the honourable Gentleman has told us, we are not rated equal to the Proportion obferv* ed in Engla?id, that of our Artillery j but, though our Artillery may be lefs in Propor- tion to our i2jOoo Men, than the Artillery of England^ in Proportion to 17,600, yet it does not follow that we are under-rated in that Article, for the Artillery of £;?g-/jWmuft be confidered as relative, not only to the 17,600 Men, which he has mentioned, but to a vaft Marine, of which he has taken no Notice ; and to feveral Forts, v/hich it is there thought neceflary to keep up ; whereas it is well known that we have neither Forts nor Marine. As I am now following the honour- C c -Mi 388 Debates relative to the [Day XXI. able Gentleman in a Comparifon that he has drawn between this Country and E?ig» land^ I cannot omit to obferve, that our Mi- litary Eftablidiment includes four Regiments of heavy Horfe ; that, in England , heavy Horfe have been laid afide, as well becaufe they are more expenfive, as becaufe they are kfs ufeful than other Troops j in this Article certainly, the Difadvantage is on our Side, and I fhould be glad to know upon what Pretence we are loaded with an ufelefs Expence from which our Neighbours are fet free. I think, Sir, that we have fome Reafon to complain of the Manner in which our Regi- ments have been multipliedj even fuppofing the Multiplication of them to be an eligible Meafure fimply confidered ; all our old Re- giments, Sir, fuftered a Redudion of one Company to make room for the new favo- rite Regiments that were to be placed upon this Eftablidiment J now. Sir, the Officers of thefe reduced Companies, had, furely, a right to confider themfelves as intitled to their Commiffions, and the full Advantage of them, at leaft, while the Regiments to which they belonged fl:iould be kept up ; the pub- lic Faith was pledged to them for this, and, upon Day XXT.] Affairs of Ireland. 389 upon their Confidence in the public Faith, they had formed their Habits of Life -, no Man can be blamed for not providing againft Contingencies, to which he has no Reafon to fuppofe himfelf liable ; and it is very inju- rious to fubjedl a Man to Evils, which he has neither deferved nor forefeen ; the Gentle- men, Sir, that have thus been turned out of their Appointments have Wives, Families, Creditors, or Dependants of fome Kind, who muft fufFer with them ; and the Injury to In- dividuals, muft, therefore, extend to a very large Circle -, the Mifchief, however, does not ftop here, for the Public is equally injured as a collective Body. The Increafe of Regi- ments and Officers, for which the Reduiftion of thefe Companies has made room, muft en- creafe the Power ofthe Miniftry,by encreafing the Number of its Dependants ; our Army is indeed, rather an Army of Officers than Men -, and the Influence of the Minifter extends as well to thofe who are in expectancy as to thofe that are in PolTeffion of Commiffions ; and this Diladvantage alone is, in my Opinion, much more than a Counttr-ballance to any Advantage, either real or pretended, in the railing Recruits, or difcipiining the Men. But whatever may be the Utility of the Eftablifh- C c 2 ment 390 Debates relative to the [Day XXI, ment propofed, I am fure it will be too dear- ly purchafcd by this Country, for the Ex- pencc; can never be defrayed but by a Tax upon Land, and, as this Country is circum- ftanced, a Tax upon Land muil be its Ruin. I, therefore, iliall give my Vote for the A- mendment, that we may, at all Events, fecure to ourfelves the Power of obje(5ling to thofe Parts of the Eftabndiment which (hall ap- pear to be Grievances, and, from which, not- withftanding what has been fuggefted to the contrary, many Gentlemen think we {hall be precluded, if the Refolution palTes in its pre- fent Form, M-j-r//^— 5-. After making feveral Calculations, and confidering the Eftablifhment in all its Bran- ches, concluded, that the additional Pay of the Officers, deducting the Half-pay, which they muft have received, if they had been difmif- fed, did not amount to more than 4000/. a Year. He faid, that the honourable Gentle- man, who fpoke laft, had infinuated that fome Regiments were Favourites : Favourites, he faid, was an opprobrious Name, becaufe it had been generally applied to thofe who did not Day XXL] Affairs of Iri.laud, 391 not deferve Favour ; but that we fliould con^ lider whofe Favourite a Perlbn was before we determined tlie Senfe of the Word j to be the Favourite of a refpedlable Charader, faid he, certainly implies Merit ; and thefe Regiments are the Favourites of the Public, the moft re- fpedable Character upon Earth j thefe Regi- ments moil: glorioufly diftingullhed them- felves in the Service of their Country, on the Plains of Minde?!, and have purchafed the Favour of their Country with their Blood; the Word Favourite, therefore, can be no Difgrace to them, nor to favour them a Dif- grace to us. The honourable Gentlemen, he alfo obferved, had hinted that heavy Horfe were not ufeful in Proportion to their Ex- pence ; but this, he faid, he apprehended not to be univerfally, though, perhaps, generally true ; becaufe the heavy Horfe, by their Weight, performed fuch Service at Marbourg^ as no other Troops could perform. In an- fwer to what had been alledged, with Refpedt to the Increafe of Minifterial Influence, by the Increafe of Regiments on the Efta- blifliment, he obferved, that the Influence ariling from the Dependance and Expedatiou ,Gf Officers upon Half- pay, would be much Cc 3 greater, 392 Debates relative to the [Day XXI, greater, and, for thefe Reafons, he declared himfelf againft the Amendment. Mr H— T*— , got up to anfwer Mr 5—, but Mr H — H—^ the P. S. having been up before him, he fat down. Mr H then repeated, and inforced the Arguments that had been before urged in fa- vour of the Nectfiity and Propriety of the prefent Civil and MiUtaryEuabU(hments ; and he added, that there was not a Kingdom in the World that had leis Reafon to complain of public Taxes, and that its Difadvantages, with Refped: to Trade, arofe rather from the Extravagance and Folly of its Inhabitants,than from any Reftraints that were impofed by Government; no check could be pretended he faid, except upon the Manufad:ures of Wool- len and Silk ; and this would be attended with no National Difadvantage, if the Na- tives would contribute to the homeConfump- tion of thefe Manufaiflures, by wearing them themfelves; which a fen felefs Vanity prevent- ed them from doing, at the fame Time that they were clamouring againft Government, upon Pretence that the Manufadories, thus languifliing by their own Folly, were not en- coura- Day XXI.] j^ffairs of Ireland. 393 couraged : He added, that Ireland fuffered much more from the Condud: of its Inhabi- tants, by wearing foreign Manufadtures, and fpending their Money in another Country, than by any Demands of Government ; and that whatever Outcry had been made againfh the Supplies, as exorbitant and oppreflive, it was certain that no Neceffary of Life had yet been taxed ; and that,even the Superfluities of Life, were enjoyed upon eafier Terms in Ireland^ than eifewhere. He obferved, that Money was never fcarce, where Intereft was low ; and that, in Ireland^ Money might be had, upon pubUc Security, at four^ Sirj was repugnant to the very Conditions upon which they held their Ports, and con- trary to the known and eflablifhed Rules of all the Countries in the World. Some of the new Regiments that were thus eftabliflied, upoq Day XXi.] Affairs of Ireland. 395 upon the Ruins of the old, had no Service to plead J and others were kept on Foot, contrary to the very Conditions under which they were railed, for they were railed only during the War, or for a certain Time. The Injury, therefore, of continuing thefe, and difbanding the Veterans, was double ; the Veteran, the Soldier I mean, for they are Men as well as their Officers, were, by long military Service, difqualified for any other j and the new Men, who were not perfectly broken to military Subordination and Fatigue, wifhed to obtain their Difcharge j fo that we have contrived our Difmiffion and Eftablifhment in fuch a Mah- ner, as to puniih equally thofe whom we dif- band, and thofe whom we keep on foot, to fay nothing of the Injury done to the Public. The honourable Gentleman, Sir, has amufed us with very minute and elaborate Calculati- ons, but, I am of Opinion, they will convince very few that the Increafe of our Eftablifli- ment, with Refpeft to our Officers, amounts to no more than 4000 /. We have heard many Diftindions concerning the Sum of 1 1 1,0.00 /. which the prefent Military Ellab- iifhment is allowed to exceed the Ertablifh- pent immediately fubfequent to the laft War j vj {hall not enquire, Sir, into what Parts this Sum 39^ Debates relative to the [Day XXI. Sum may be divided, or examine the feveral Modes, Times, and Purpofes, of laying it on ; all that I think neceffiry to obferve is, that it is a neat Increafe of our Expence, and that it is beyond our Ability to pay, which, I think, is an infuperable Objcdlion againft it. The honourable and learned Gentleman who fpoke lad, has, indeed, inferred our pecuniary Ability from the low Interefl of Money j but though, in general, this Inference may be juft, it is not fo with Relpedt to us, and, I think, I can eafily {hew that the low Intereft of Money in Ireland^ is the Effedt of Poverty, not of Wealth : Our Securities are generally bad, and our Trade is under great Reftraints and Difcouragements j the few, therefore, who have Money to lend, are at a Lofs how to employ it. As we are an Ifland governed by our own Laws, and not connected with o- ther Stages in commercial Intereft, we are (fill defirous of laying out our Money at Home, and, as good Security is rare, we are tempted to lend our Money on fuch Security, when it can be found at a low Intereft, not bocaufe Money is plenty among us, but becaufe we have no Opportunity ofdifpofing of it better; and, if the honourable Gentleman will recol- lect, I am fure he muft acknowledge, that, except Day XXI. J Jffairs of Ireland. 397 except on public Security, and fuch private Security as is very rare, Pvloney is not to be had here for lefs than iix per Ce?U. befides Fees to Lawyers, and Attornies, in the very Adt of borrowing. The honourable Gentle- man has alfo mentioned the Cheapnefs of Provilions, and Labour, as another Inftance of our Wealth j but the Cheapnefs of Provi- iions and Labour, proves, to Demonftration, that the comparative Value of Money is high, and the comparative Value of Money can ne- ver be high, but where it is fcarce : Befides, Sir, Provifions and Labour are not cheap in a particular Country, in Proportion as they coft lefs Money, than in another Country; they are cheap and dear only with Refped: to the Proportion their Value bears to the Value of Money, whatever it is. If we look into our ancient Annals, we fliall find that there was a Time when a whole Sheep was fold for a Shilling, but it does not follow that Mutton was then cheaper than it is now j for it will be found that a Shilling was of the fame Va- lue then as the Sum is that will purchafe a Sheep now: If this is confidered, it will feem no Paradox, that though Provifions and Labour may be procured here for lefs Money than in another Country, yet they are equally dear ; and 5^8 Debates relative to the [Day XXI. and if we judge of the Number that cann»t procure the Provilions that the honourable Gentleman has fuppofed to be cheap, we inuft conclude that they are much dearer : I (hall therefore only delire the honourable Gentleman, and every other Member of this Houfe, to recoiled: the Situation of two Millions and a halfj of the three Millions of Inhabitants which this Country is fuppofed to contain, and then lay their Hands upon their Heart?, and declare whether their Country is rich or poor. As to the Riots of the lower Clafs of People, which, it muft be confefTed, have been too frequent, I think the molt ef- fedual Way of preventing them, would be to avoid the Subllitution of real Evils in the Place of thofe imaginary ones that have milled them ; for, though we have no Realbn to de^ fpair of quieting their Minds, when it may be done by diflipating an lilufion, yet there will be little room for Plope, when it can be done only by concealing a Reality. Mr T'— Le H— faid, that he thought it very improper to anticipate a Debate, which could properly come on only upon an En- quiry into the Grievance fuppofed to arife from the Eftablifliment, which was not the Subjeiflt Day XXL] ylfairsoflR-ELAiiD. 399 Subjed; of the Day ; and, therefore, he fliould only fay, that, in his Opinion, the A- mendment ought to be admitted, as it feemed to be the prevailing Opinion, that the Mo" tion, as it now flood, would preclude fuch an Enquiry, which, he was perfuaded, the ho- nourable Gentleman did not intend : He ad- ded, that he thought the Word neccjfary could be no Slur upon their Proceedings, but that they greatly expofed themfelves to Cen-r fure, by objee Ceremony ? ^ T^hink, *' Sir, fays the Fell<;>w, why I think I never ** iaw God Almighty ferved like a Gentlemaa *' before." An Amendment wa« then made in the Motion,, by infcrting 1000/. inftead of 2,600/, D d and 404. Debates relative to the [D A y XXI* and the Committee refolved that that Sum Should be granted. Many other Sums were alfo grants, as it was faid, in Confequence of a Determinatioa previoufly made, notwithftanding all the Ob- jecflions that could be urged againft it j the Committee being fmall, and it growing late^ Mr W — B — faid, that it feemed to him that Time was more precious than Money, and that as he perceived it was to r^o Purpofe to oppofe the Grants of Money for particular Purpofes, he moved, that the Committee fliould report that they had made fome Pro- grefs, and that they fliould have Leave to fit aeain. Dr L — feconded Mr B — , and faid, that Health fliould no more be laviflied by late Hours, than Money by Jobbs j and the Mo- tion being put, was agreed to. The Speaker then refuming the Chair, the Report was made accordingly) and it was re- folved that the Houfe would, next Monday Morning, refolve itfelf into a Committee, to confider farther of the Supplies, and the Lord Lieutenant's Speech, Tbe End of V O L. L The Gentleman luho took thefe Debates, being in a dijlatit Part of the Continent luhile they ixiere printing, a Speech of the R. H. G. H. n\)hich ivill be found in p. 640, ^as, by mjlake, imputed to J. H. H. the P. S. Jnd the fol- io-wing Errors alfo efcaped the Prefs, ifjhich the Reader is reqttejled to correal. Page I, for March 10, read OBoher ii. 37, line laft but one, inftead of for life, read at Will, 51. line I. for Mr R. F. read Mr R. Fitz. 59. line I. for keep, read, help. 62. line 7. for prevented, it\d, pretended. 68. line 13. for the, read, a. 70. line 13. ioT opinions, read, opinion, 71. line 7. for precept, read, precepts. 79. line lo. for Charity, read, Chriftianity. 95. line 16. iov Wrong, read, no Wrong. 120. line 4. for Examination, read, Examinations. 136. line I. for R. F, read R. Fitz. 143. line laft but one, for the R.H. read, the H. 172. line ao. for T. H. read W. H. j8o. ad paragraph, line i, for ivas, read, is. line 3,' for ivas, read, is. line 4. ibr ^ai;^, read gi-ve-s, line 5. for luere, read, ^rf. 185. line laft but one, for dear, read, ^co;/. 202. line the laft, for Mr R. read Mr W. B. 208. line 4, for Command, read, Commifions. a2i. line 23. ior Lavjs of Kingdom, read, £a7u/ o/' the Kingdom. 231. line 19. ioT facred, re^d, fecure. 254. line 4. for /o, read, //;. 308. line 6. for Mr yf. M. read, the R. H. Mr A. M. 328. line 12. for fet, re^d, fat. 340. line 8. for Mr A. M. read Mr A. M. 392. line 3. for //. 7". read, H. F. 427. line 16, for Brandon, read, Bandon. 429. line 14. for Rt H— ble W. B. read Rt H— bleS. B, 448, line laft, for H. T. read, /i'. f. 475. line 12. for Ferois, read, AVm. 476. line 3. for f^erois, read, /''/m. 499. line 15. for brufi/h, read, BrilijT). 523. line 2. for /f. />. read, W. C. 640. line 40. for J. H. H. the P. S. read, the "R.U.C.FU 662. line 5. for non refdenced, read, tion reftdent. 702. line 4. for I he Serjeant, lead, of the Ser-vant. 737. line 13. for Deliberation, le^d, De/iOerafivni. I y