Substance of a Sneech De
livered ^t the East In-
dia' House
/
By
Thomas Henchman
Eqft India Affairs.
SUBSTANCE
OF
A SPEECH
DELIVERED AT THE
EAST INDIA HOUSE,
BY
THOMAS HENCHMAN, ESQ.
AT
A SPECIAL GENERAL COURT,
Held on Thurfda,/, April 8, 1802,
ON THE SUBJECT OF
THE PRIVATE TRADE,
AS REPORTED BY
WILLIAM WOODFALL.
Xou&on :
PRINTED BY T. GILLET, SALISBURY-SQUARE.
1802.
The Refolution moved at this Court by Mr.
TWINING, and fecorfded by Mr. HUDDLESTONE,
was as follows :
Refolved, That this Court confirm and approve the Proceed-
ings of the Court of Directors upon the Subject of the Private
Trade of India. That in their proceedings they have Shewn
themSelves, and the Court are convinced will always Shew them-
felves, defirous of prefcrving, by reafonable arrangements, that
good understanding with the Board of Commiffioners, which is
fo important to the interefts both of the Public and the Eaft
India Company ; but that the Court of Directors be authorised
to take Such further Steps as may appear to them neceffaiy for
the defence of thofe rights which have been Solemnly Sanctioned
to the Company by their charter, which are eflential to the in-
tereSts of the Public, as well as of the Company, and to the vio-
lation of which the Proprietors of Eaft India Stock can never
confent.
To this the following Amendment was moved
by Mr. IMPEY, and Seconded by Mr. HENCHMAN :
Refolved, That the queStion of Private Trade between India
and Britain, on which fuch oppofite opinions are holden by per-
Sons of the higheft authority, appears to this Court to involve
considerations of the utnnoft importance, as well to the Eaft
India Company as to the Maritime, Commercial, and Political
Interefts of this Kingdom ; and this Court is of opinion, that
previous to the final arrangement of a permanent fyStem, a full
and fair experiment Should be made, as propoSed by the Board
of Commiffioners for the Affairs of India.
The numbers were,
For the original Motion 134
Again ft it - - 32
Majority 1O2
SUBSTANCE
OF
[Among other obfervations in the courfe of his
fpeech, Mr. Bebb faid, I take the prefent oppor-
tunity of noticing a part of the Obfervations
publifhed by the honourable Proprietor (Mr.
Henchman) upon thefe Reports. I have been
quoted by name, and made to fay,* " The
" manufacturer prefers the employment of the
" Private Agent to that of the Company." I
never held fuch an opinion, nor are there any
fuch words in the letter alluded to. I have
too much refpect for the character of the ho-
nourable Proprietor, to fuppofe he designedly
made an erroneous quotation ; but I wifh he
had perufed my letter with more attention, be-
fore he quoted it.-j~ One other matter in
thefe
* See Obfervations, page 46.
t Mr. Henchman has, fince the General Court on the 8th
of April, read Mr. Bebb's letter of the i;th Nov. 1788, with
particular attention, and he fees no reafon to alter his opinion
that Mr. Bebb fays, " the manufadlurer prefers the employ
A 3 ment
( 6 )
thefe Obfcrvations I muft alfo notice; an Ad-
vertifement of the Board of Trade in Bengal
is exhibited, in which the public are informed
of the freight paid by the Company on their
regular (hipping, amounting to 521. 15s. per
ton, and this freight is invidioufly contrail ed
with foreign freight, at l()l. per ton. The
occafion of this advcrtifement was this : There
were, at the time fpoken of, in the river of
Bengal, feveral Britifh-built fhips, fent out by
the Directors for the purpofc of bringing to
London the goods of individuals, and the Com-
pany's own gruff goods. They were fea- worthy
infurable fhips, which coil the Company, a?
near as I can recollect, from 14\. to 201. per ton.
\vhillt individuals were charged the Act of Par-
liament price of 221. I Os. per ton. But feveral
perfons wiftieel to put their goods on board the
Company's regular (hips, in order to benefit by
the low rate ui which the regular fhips are
always infured. It was fignified to them they
might do thi?, provided they would confcnt to
" ment of the private Agent to that of the Company.'' Mr.
Bebb, it is true, is correct, when he alFcrts tlu-fe very wordi
are not to be found in his letter. Mr. Henchman found them
in hu vj/ictal paper <y '/-(Jinnee, given with a manulmpt volume
of papers at the India-iloufe, of which Mr. Bebb's letter form-
ed a part ; and Mr. IlL-nchm.in is confirmed iii hii opinion,
that the couftruc'lion ib peiicctly iair, according to the tenor of
the lettei .
pay
pay the fame freight as thefe (hips coft the Com-
pany. For their guidance, the particulars of the
freight was publifhed. The items were fpeci-
fically given, where they were fpecific ; where
they were contingent or uncertain, the fairefl
computation that could be made, was ftated.
Nothing was meant to miflead. The permiffion
to lade private goods in the regular (hips, in-
flead of being oppreffive to the trade of indi-
viduals, was an indulgence.*]
Mr. HENCHMAN rofe, and addrefled the Chair as
follows :
MR. CHAIRMAN,
BEFORE I enter upon the fubject which has
been already fo much debated this evening, I
fhall take the liberty of begging permiffion briefly
to explain the caufe of iny wifhing to have been
heard for a few minutes, on the first opening of
the bufmefs this day. I defired then to be heard
to a point of privilege, which, in moll affemblies,
is allowed to have precedence before any other fub-
* This indulgence was of fuch a defcription, that no one is
iiated to have taken the benefit of it. Mr. Bebb admits the
freight of thefe regular (hips coft the Company 52!. i^s. per
ton. which is a faft of fonie importance in the prefent queftion-
A 4 ject
( 8 )
jeet whatever: and for the beft of reafons; becaufc,
if your privileges are infringed, you may foon have-
no opportunity of debating at all, for that may be
taken away alfo. I fhould then have dated, as I
fhall now, that the privileges of this Court have
been ferioufly infringed and difrefpecled and
by your own agents, the Court of Directors ; the
inftance is this: In May lad, when we had under
our confideration the very fubject we are ftill en-
gaged upon, this Court came to a refolution ap-
proving of the report and proceedings of the Di-
rectors, and inftrucling them to act without delay*
upon the principles therein contained. From
that time to this, for ten months, the Proprietors
have never been called together, or informed in
any way of what the Court of Directors had done
in confequence of thofe inflrucYions : at lad we
learn, by the papers now printed, that they found
fuch ferious difficulties as to prevent their execut-
ing the orders they had received; that they had
exerted themfclves to do fo, hut found fuch objec-
tions in the fuperior Board, that they had aban-
doned thofe inftructions, and entered into a new
and different negotiation, which they now lay be-
fore this Court. Sir, I mean to contend, that the
Directors, in this proceeding, have infringed the
privileges of the Court of Proprietors ; that they
were under the cxprcfs orders of this Court to
carry into execution without delay certain rcfolu-
( 9 )
lions they had approved ; and, in cafe they found
that impracticable, they had only one courfe to
take, which was, to come back to this Court to tell
the Proprietors fo, and to receive fuch further in-
fh'uclions as they might think proper to give
them. It may be very proper here to confider
the nature, circumftances, and importance of this
fubjecl. It concerns one of the largeft branches
of Britifh commerce ; and it had been fo fully dif-
cufled and reported upon by the Court of Di-
rectors, that they faid long ago all further delibe-
ration was necdlefs ; that they had afcertained
what was right to be done ; and they entreated
the General Court to give them the inftruclions
they received. Now, Sir, I muft infifr, that it is
a ferious breach and contempt of the privileges of
this Court, for the Directors, under fuch circum-
ftances, to let alidc the orders of their conftituents,
without telling them that they found themfelvcs
in fuch a predicament that they could not. fulfil
them : and betides that, entering upon a different
negotiation, which gave up the cilcntial points be-
fore intifled on, and at laft agreeing with his Ma-
jefly's Minifter, that a different fyftem fhould be
adopted ; but fuch a fyftem as the Directors them-
felvcs had reprefented to this Court would inevita-
bly bring ruin on the Company I mean the ad-
miffion of the claims of the Merchants, and Teak
Ships into the trade between England and the Eaft
Indies.
Indies. My intention was, early in this day, if I
had been permitted to fpeak, to have ftated this
cafe, and to have propofed a rcfolution, vindicat-
ing our own rights, by declaring that we are
fenfible of this want of refpe6t on the part of the
Executive, to the Conftituent Body ; but, Sir, if
there prevails such an apathy in the Court, I shall
content myfelf with this notice of the matter; and
with only remarking, that if this difpofition con-
tinues, the Proprietors will be no more than tools
or inftruments in the hands of the Directors ;
called on when they pleafc, to vote juft what they
defirc; to be regarded, juft as much as they in
their good pleafure may think fit. By the motion
now propofed this Court is about to tell the Di-
rectors, as they were told before, that all they have
done fince May lad meets their approbation, al-
though it differs fo materially from their former
infiruclions; fhould that be carried, I think there
will be Icls reafon to cxpecl: they will pay any at-
tention to it, fiuce they have given fo lately this
unqualified inftance of treating the authority of
their Conliituents with contempt. An apology.
at any rate an explanation, is clue from the Di-
rcclors ; but I fhall not purfuc the fubjecl further :
It refts with the Court to difpofe of it as they
pleafc ; all I hope is, that they may not eftablifh
a dangerous precedent again It themfelves, by
pafling it over without notice.
I (hall
c )
I (hall now, Sir, proceed to make fome re-
marks upon the correfpondence that has pafled
between the Court of Directors and the Board of
Commiffioners ; and alfo upon the paragraphs
which were prepared for India by the Directors,
and the corrections which were made in them by
the Board of Commiffioners. Thefe paragraphs
were framed by the Directors, for the purpofe of
inftructing their Governor-General to carry the
eleven Proportions relative to Private Trade into
effect, which had received the fanction of the
Honfe of Commons on the 25th of November laft ; ^
and I have no hefitation in declaring my opinion,
that, inftead of being formed with a fair and
honeft intention to that end, they feem to me
to be of a complexion that mult have a direct
contrary tendency, and have all the appearance of
being meant to defeat, inliead of promoting the
object of his Majefty's Minitter, which was a fair
experiment between Britifh and Indian Ships. ,\
No wonder, then, that the Board of Commiffioners
difapproved and altered thefe paragraphs, and fub-
iiituted others in their ftead, which might anfwer
the real end and purpofe intended. Upon the
correfpondence I fhall not fay much ; it has been
well commented upon already : I (hall only re-
mark, that there is evidently throughout it a
fixed determination to oppofe the Board of Com-
miffioners in every application they make for
papers
( 14 )
papers to guide them ; and fometimes very extra
ordinary reafons affiance! for fuch refufals. Fof
inftance, when Lord Dartmouth requefts to fee the
feparate opinions of the Directors, belonging to
their firft Report, arid which Mr. Dundas had
leen, they reply " The papers therein mentioned
" had only for object a free and full interchange
" of fentiments among the Members of the Spe-
" cial Committee, preparatory to their laying their
* c opinions upon the important matters referred to
" them before the Court at large ; that they made
" no part of the Report to the Court of the 27 tk
il cf January I a ft ; arid had never been made life
" of to influence the decision of the Court upon
" that fubjcct. The papers, therefore, are confi-
f dcred by the Members whofe fignatures they
'* bear, as well as by the Court at large, as pri-
" vate papers/' No\v, Sir, to determine this
point, it is only nccciiary to appeal to the Report
itfelf, which exprefsly refers every reader to them,
* : as containing much fupplementary detail, and
k large illulirations of a variety of relative topics."
But, Sir, the truth may be, that one Director
having publicly admitted, that his feparate opi-
nion would prove his difference in fentiment, and,
of courfo, that the Directors were not unani-
mous ; fo the Directors generally have pcrfifted in
refuling to produce thefe other feparate opinions.,
ielt they lliuuld prove that others among them
alto
{ 13. )
alfo differed. Such conftruclion I might have a
right to put upon their refufal ; and it muft tend
to increafe the fufpicions afloat, until fuch time
as thefe papers are produced. There can be no
fuch thing as private documents among public
officers. I infift, therefore, that this Court has a
right to the papers in queftton.
In the middle of the letters now printed (p. 15)
will be found one from the Minifter, who being
very reafonably alarmed at the Directors adver-
tifing for hiring fhips in the fummer, fays " I
" am induced by a ftrong fenfe of public duty, to
" reprefent to you the inexpediency of entering
" into fuch contracts, until the very important
" fubjecl, which has recently occafioned a corre-
" fpondence between the Commiffioners and your
fi Court, has undergone the inveftigation and dif-
" cuffion which, it may be prefumed, will take
" place in the enfuing feffion of Parliament."
In anfwer to which, the Chairman, with the appro-
bation of the Court, explained to the Minifter,
" that all the fhips they were about to take up
" were for the Company's own ufe and cargoes."
To which the Minifter replied, " That he had
* f good reafon to believe, that the additional (hip-
" ping was not folely intended for the purpofes
" which he defcribed ; but if it was agreed that
" it was only to be made ufe of in the manner
5 defcribed by the Chairman, his objections were
" removed."
*' removed." After this clear underftanding, that
they were fo take np no Jhips for Private Trade at
that time, the Directors perfevere, and take up
many fhips ; which they now Jlate to I e Jhips taken
up fofitwely for Private Trade (Vide No. 38,
printed papers,) and not for the Company's ufe.
Sir, I do fay, that here is an appearance fo un-
handfome and fo uncandid on the part of the Di-
rectors, that it requires from them a very clear
explanation indeed.
I fhall not go into the letter which you, Mr.
Chairman, addrcfled to Mr. Addington, evidently
with the hope of alarming him refpecling this
inquiry. My learned Friend (Mr. Impey) has
done all that could be wifhed refpecling that
letter ; and, to be fure, it is a moft extraordi-
nary circum (lance, that you fhould in that letter
deprecate an inquiry into the Company's affairs,
as extremely dangerous ; and yet, in your prefent
Report, go very deep into that inquiry yourfelf. If
this was the only inconfiftcncy difcernible in thefe
papers, I fhould attribute it to accident ; but, Sir,
I find fo many others, that they are to be attri-
buted to fome other caufe.
I now, Sir, come to the Paragraphs which
the Court of Directors had prepared to accompany
the eleven Propofitions to India refpecling Private
Trade ; and if I do not fhew that they bear ftrong
evidence of a fettled intention to throw obftaclcs in
5 the
the way of the Indian (hips, inftead of giving
facilities to them, I do not defire credit with this
Court for any thing I may fay here this day. No
wonder, Sir, that paragraphs of fuch a tenure
fhould be objected to by the Board of Commif-
lioners ; but there is much wonder, that the Di-
reclors (hould ever have framed them. Some hcfi-
tation, I think, has been exprefTcd in admitting,
that the Directors have had the intercourfe which
is imputed to them with the Treafury ; but, Sir,
there needs no referve on the occafion ; for my
honourable Friend (Mr. G. Johnftone) was right
in charging them with having been intriguing in
that quarter. I know it to be a fact ; we all know
that the Directors foon found that they could not
perfuade the Board of Commiffioners to give into
their views ; and therefore they went directly to
Mr. Vanfittart : they faw both the Secretary and
the Minifter ; they carried on the negotiation there
inftead of with their proper fuperiors, the Board of
Commiffioners. That they did this, I aflert on my
own knowledge. I alfo faw Mr. Vanfittart, on the
part of the Agents, and he told me the Direclors
had been with him, and he with them. There-
fore, there can exift no doubt that the Direclors
transferred their applications from the Board of
Commiffioners to the Treafury. And, Sir, were
you not there obliged to promife thofe conceffions,,
which it is now the object of thefc curious orders
to
to defeat ? It may be fairly charged, that fuch is
the riefign ; for nothing elfe could induce the
framing them of the tenure they arc. To (hew
the fpirit throughout thefe orders, I fhall firft
notice a part of the introduction, where the Di-
rectors account for the Paragraphs being delayed :
They fay, " That when an honourable Member
" of the Houfe of Commons moved there, that
" the papers mould be laid before the Houfe, and
" his motion was acquiefced in, the tranfmiflion
" of the orders we had prepared was, in confluence,
" fufpended." Now, Sir, the very printed papers
which I hold in my hand, prove the contrary ; for
Sir William Pulteney moved for thefe papers the
beginning of June, 1801 ; but in (lead of fufpend-
ing their orders in confequence, the Directors ftili
went on contending with Lord Dartmouth for the
tranfmiflion of them, and never ccafed till, at the
end of two months, they found his Lord Hi 5 p wa
not to be moved, but pointedly told them, " That
" he dared not (hew a marked contempt for what
" might be the opinion of the Legislature ; that
" he dared not riik the adoption of meafures
" which may counteract the regulations of Parlia-
" ment." Such refpeclful attention to a branch
of the Legiflature mud meet with approbation
every where but behind that bar. My point, how-
ever, I think, is now made clear, that you did not
fufpend your orders in confiquexce of the Houfe of
Commons,
( >7 )
Commons entertaining Sir William Pulteney's
motion for papers, but in confequence of Lord
Dartmouth's fpirited oppofition to your repeated
attempts to gain his confent to them.
Soon after, in thefe Paragraphs, the Directors
fay " Our oppofition to the introduction of In-
" dian fhips here did not arife from a defire to
" exclude them from mixing in the commercial
" fhipping of this country." Yet in your former
Report, and in your fpeeches, you had been
(Irongly arguing againft them ; becaufe they would
interfere with the (hip-builders, artificers, and
tradefmen of all forts ; and becaufe they would
throw Englifh feamen out of employ. When
you almoft recommended to the (hip-builders and
failors to rife up againft the proportion to allow
Indian fhips to come here, can it be faid you had
no defire to exclude them from mixing in the
commercial (hipping of this country ? I am afraid
this aflertion muft appear as ill founded as many
others.
I next find in thefe Paragraphs " That many
" publications have been induftrioufly difTemi-
" nated in this country againft the matter and
" reafoning of thefe Reports : and in thefe pub-
" lications there are not a few grofs errors in point
" of fact." Sir, I cannot refrain from faying,
that this is mere aflertion ; and I call upon the
author of this paragraph to (hew, to point out
B thrfc.
C 18 )
thefe grofs errors, which are fo glaring and fo nu-
merous: and I hope you will not have credit for the
fa 61, until you prove, by inftances, that your afier-
tion is well grounded ; which is not yet done in
any part of the papers you have printed. If, how-
ever, it (hould now, or at any future day, be fhewn
that I have fallen into errors of any defcription
(which I am far from thinking is not the cafe) I
(hall, I declare, be ready to confefs them.
The next, point in thefe Paragraphs I fhall
notice is that, where, after defcribing the Private
Trade as you think it ought to be, it is faid "This
u Remittance Trade, thus dcfcribcd, forms the
" point at which we wifh to flop." Why then
have you not done fo long ago ? No ; you have
admitted the Trade to go on much beyond this
point year after year ; and if you had not leen fome
other caufe, you would not have objected even now.
Sir, it is fair to charge, that confl ruing the acl of
Parliament as the Directors have done (viz. that all
the Private Trade fhould be confined to the returns
for Britifh exports, and the acquifitions of indivi-
duals in India, after deducting what might be takers
up by bills drawn by the Governments abroad on
the Court of Direclors), they ought long fmce in
duty to have ftopt the Private Trade altogether; for
there have been no Britilh manufactures exported
un their (hips; and the bills drawn from India an-
nually have exceeded all the fa v ings that the higheft
calculation
( 19 )
calculation ever admitted it were practicable for
the fervants of the Company and others to make.
If fo, the Directors fhould have brought this
queftion to iffue much earlier ; there exifts no
legal capital, in their opinion, to carry it on ; all
that is done muft, therefore, be unwarrantable.
Yet it was too delicate and too interefting a quef-
tion for them to ilir : they were afraid to meet
what appears to have been their duty and fo they
are ftill ; for they are even now propofing a plan
for continuing this Trade, though, it muft be
confefled, not with much apparent fincerity for its
fuccefs ; at leaft as I view it.
I next come to the Paragraph which directs
how the Teak Ships are to be contracted for,
which it was agreed (houid be built in India ;
nnd it ftatcs, that the terms and conditions are to
be agreeable to a printed fchedule tranfmitted with
the orders.
["Here Mr. Henchman flopped to obferve,
that he fhould want feveral papers in the
courfe of what he had to fay, and handed
up a lift of them, begging that a Clerk
might get them at hand. As Mr. Hench-
man now wanted the fchedule, which was
the firft, fome demur feemed to arife within
the bar, whether he fhould have it]
Mr. Henchman on this faid, Mr. Chairman, I
am at a lofs to account for any hesitation on this
B 2 point.
C 20 )
point, becaufe the fchedule ought to have been
printed with the Third Report ; however, I am
not diftreffed for want of it ; I have read the fche-
dule- it is printed, and in the hands of every (hip-
owner ; I (hall, therefore, quote what is neceflary
to my argument from memory: you will, I truft,
fet me right if I (hould make any miftake. Sir,
that fehedule requires, that the Captain and Of-
ficers of any Indian Ships contracted for, (hall be
bred up in your regular fcrvice. Now, you know
no fuch men are to be found in India, and there-
fore that claufe would prevent any (Lips from
being contracted for at all ; but if they could be
met with, you know, and have formerly admitted,*
that it would be moft unreafonable to expect that
owners fhould commit fuch large properties to
the management of Grangers : fo that at all event?,
it would act very much to the impediment of thefe
contracts. Your orders alfo direct, that no more
than \A\. per ton (hall be allowed for the freight ;
being the rate nt which you have contracted here
and when Lord Dartmouth inquires of you, in
his letter of the 23d of February lad, " Whether
" there are no contingencies, fuch as an allowance
'" on the building, home demurrage, or other cir-
" cumftances, which will make the rale exceed
ki 141. per ton ?" the Court of Directors an-
"* Vide former Debates on Shipping.
fwcred,
C 21 )
fwered, " They forefee no circumftances which
" can increafe the rate of freight of Ul. per ton ;
u but if any fhould occur, the increafe will equally
" apply to Indian as to Britifh fhips." Then, Sir, V
you do not admit the 3l. per ton in the building,
or the 3d. per day per ton home demurrage, in the
fchedule, is to be allowed to thefe Indian fhips.
Are not thefe contingencies that will encreafe the
rate of freight ? And taking them into the calcu-
lation, you have not contracted to build any (hips
at 141. per ton. The value of thefe two items
would make an increafe of at leaft ll. 10s. per ton. V
Yet, Sir, you would exclude the Indian (hips,
unlefs the owners will contract fimply for J4l.
which is lower than any contracts you have made
for building in England : and you tell Lord Dart-
mouth, you forefee no circumftances which can in-
creafe the rate of freight. Is this giving facilities,
or an equal participation to the Indian ftiips ? So
far from it, that it is denying them common juftice ;
and I therefore muft confider this part of the
orders as an intended impediment to the ufe of In-
dian fhips on equal terms, until a fatisfadlory ex-
planation is given.
I have now to notice that part of the Paragraphs
which fays " In order to afford a provilional aid
l< to the fupply of a due proportion of Indian
" tonnage for Private Trade, and alfo to give en-
" couragement to the difpofal of Indian fhips in
B 3 " this
( 22 )
ic this country, we permit extra fhips of that de-
" fcription (about 50O tons) to be hired for one
** voyage home, under exprefs flipulation, that
" they are not to return to India, either direclly or
" circuitoufly on account of any Britifh fubject
" whatever." Now, Sir, I would afk, what mer-
chant will enter irito fuch an engagement ? Would
any man make himfelf liable, after the (hip poffibly
has been fold half-a-dozen limes, and at latl goes
again to India, perhaps under foreign colours, and
fome Englifhman bearing a (hare in her, to a pe-
nalty for fuch an event ? It clearly is an article to
which no prudent man will fubfcribe. But this is
not all ; the Dircclors furely never meant fuch
fhips fhould come to England at all ; I think they
have acknowledged as much. The Proprietors need
only refer to the 74th page of the Third Report,
in which the Dircclors cxprefsly date, " there are
" few fervices, except that of the Eaft India Com-
'* pany, in which they (fhips of four or five hun-
" dred tons) can be employed ; nor is ihcre a chance
" for their being fold, unlefs there (hall be a de-
** mand for the Commerce of France or Holland."
It is impoffiblc, Sir, that this can by any inge-
nuity be explained away : it (lands in pofnive op-
pofition to your profeffions ; but muft be taken as
a direct proof, that you never intended any fuch
fhips fhould come to this country for falc. I
think I have the faireft ground for faying this,
when
r 23 )
when you yourfelves acknowledge, that there is ^
no chance of that clafs of fhips being fold, which
is the only clafs you are willing to allow to come
to this country for fale.
Next, Sir, I muft refer to your inftructions about
manning thefe Indian (hips, when they may be
contracted for : you fay, in thefe intended orders,
" the Act of Navigation allows one third of the
" crew to be aliens, and therefore Lafcars to this V
" extent may be employed, but by no means in
" any greater proportion." This I may furely
challenge as another impediment to the Indian
fhips being employed. You know that Euro-
pean feamen in great numbers are not to be found
in India. Suppofe twenty teak (hips, or as many
as are this year in the Thames, to be wanted, two /
thirds of each crew may be forty men, and the.
whole number would be eight hundred. It is a
thing impoffible to find eight hundred Britifh fea-
rnen in the Eaft Indies: therefore no contracts
can be made, if this is infilled on.
After this follows an acknowledgment, that " it
" is our (the Directors) intention to give an equal
" participation, on equal terms, to the Indian (hips,
< c in bringing home the Private Trade." This,
however, is infiantly done away by the particle
BUT, which provides, that " the Directors may
" hire at any time a (hip or (hips cafually (which is
" a mode we (hall never be inclined to prefer), but
B 4 " that
( 24 )
" that is to give no pretcnfion to the Indian fhip-
" owners for furniftiing one in that way, or on fuch
" terms." Here the equal participation is imme-
diately deftroyed (vide Report, p. 102.) : and can
this be reckoned fair between the Directors and
Private Traders ? Or, does it not rather prove the
neceffity of there being fome declared umpire be-
tween two fuch parties ? Who can this be but the
Board of Commiffioners ? To whom this power
was evidently intended to be given by the fpirit,
and indeed I may fay, by the letter, of the Act of
17Q3.
Next, Sir, with refpect to the loading of thefe
Indian fhips. The Directors would order, " if the
" fhips fent from Europe, and engaged in India,
" cannot both be laden at parallel periods, thofe
" from Europe, which cannot be diverted to any
" employment in India (as the country ihips may)
" muft be laden firft." Is this another inftance
of the impartiality of the Directors, and of the equal
participation which they intend to deal out to the
Merchants in India ? Or did not this article, in
common candour, require the aid of fuperior au-
thority to correct the manifeft injudice it exhibits ?
I will not detain the Court longer by detailing
other inftances of the fame fpirit, ib clearly mani-
fefted from the beginning to the end of thefe
Paragraphs. I will content niyfelf with adding,
that I read nothing in the corrected copy of the
Paragraphs
( 25 )
Paragraphs returned by the Commiffioncrs, but a
defire to do away thefe evident obftacles, thrown
intentionally, as I conceive, in the way of the
Indian (hipping ; and to make the Paragraphs what
they ought to be, the means of " opening a fair
" competition between Indian and Britifti fhips,
" for bringing home the Private Trade."
It is a very neceilary obfervaticn to make in this
place, that the Court of Dire6tors have, on receiv-
ing thefe corrected Paragraphs, only come to a
general rcfolution, that " taken altogether, they
lt dernonftrate a decided and unequivocal intention
" of invading and deftroying the commercial rights
" and privileges of the Eafl India Company."
They have not (hewn to what parts they particu-
larly object : many parts remain, as they them-
felves originally formed them ; others are only
calculated to make the facilities to Indian fhips
the fame as to Britim ; and where there are any
that are to deftroy the rights and privileges of
the Company, I am at a lofs to difcover. I call,
however, upon any and every Gentleman behind
the bar to point out thole paragraphs which can be
charged with being big with any fucli confer
quences.
Mr. Chairman, there is an opinion given by
your learned Counfel, among thefe printed Pa-
pers, to which it is very neceflary I fhould not omit
to refer upon the prefent occasion. We all with
good
good reafon pay high refpcft to his advice: and
yon, Sir, and the Court of Directors have, I
make no doubt, been guided, in the conflruclion
of the Aft of the 3Qth Gco. III. cap. 89, by the
learned Counfel's detailed opinion, given on the
2d of -October lafl, at your defire. The part of
that opinion to which I at prefent beg to draw the
attention of the Court, is that refpefting the taking
up of fhips for the Company's fervice for eight
voyages, when the Aft of the 3f)th Geo. III. ex-
prcfsly fays, u the Company fhall employ no fhips
" in their regular fervice, unlefs contracted for to
" ferve in trade and warfare, or in any other fer-
" vice, for fix voyages." The learned Counfel.
after affigning his reafons, fays, " I think, there-
" fore, that the Company may contract for eight
" voyages, which is only extending the principle fur-
" ther than the law requires." The opinion (lands
No. 26 in thefe printed Papers ; every Proprietor,
therefore, has an opportunity of referring to it:
and the ufe I intend to make of the extract I have
quoted from it is this. Extending the principle of the
Att, I think I may venture to (late, is taking the
fpirit of the Act in (lead of abiding by the letter of
it. The Act of the 3Qth fays positively, that the
Directors mull contract for their flrps for fix
voyages. There is no latitude given, as there
might have been by the words or more ; and I am
ready, on the authority of the learned Gentle-
8 man,
man, to believe that they were unneceflary ;
though there might have been fome plaufible rea-
fons affigned, at the time the Act was palling,
again ft taking up (hips for more than fix voyages,
if fuch an authority had been known to be con-
tained in the Act as it is now worded. However,
Sir, I repeat, that extending the principle (by mak-
ing a pofitive injunction to take up (hips for fix
voyages, includes a liberty to take them up for
eight, or for eighteen, for any number may as
reafonably be taken as eight) is in other words,
adopting the fpirit of the Act, inftead of abiding
by the letter of it. If I am wrong in this, I fhall
be much obliged to any one who will fet me right.
But, Sir, if the fpirit of one Act can be adopted
inftead of the letter, I would fubmit, whether the
fpirit of another Act may not alfo be adopted in-
ftead of the letter ; and therefore I mean to claim
it for the Act of the 33d Geo. Ill as it has been
claimed in this in fiance in refpect to the Act of
the 3gth Geo. III. The Act of the 33d ex-
prefsly grants a controuling power to the Board of
Commiffioners over the Private Traders to and
from India, in feveral different feet ion s ; and
fpeaking of that Act, it has been fa id by a Gentle-
man of the profeffion, that " nothing can be more
" manifeft than the diftinction eftablifhed by the
" ftatute between the two forts of Commerce (the
" Company's and the Private), and the authority
" which
<f which it veils in the Com miffio tiers to decide all
" controverfies which (hall arife out of the Private
" Trade" and again, that " no doubt can be en-
" tertciined of the reafon of the law, and the in-
" tcntion of the Legislature."* If this opinion
be well founded, and the fpirit of the Act of the
33d Geo. III. be clearly of this defcription, I afk,
for information, why the principle of this Act may
not be extended, as well as the principle of the
Act of the 3Qth ? All that is wanted is an umpire
between the Court of Directors and the Private
Merchants it is not fit that either fhould be the
judge in his own caufe the Legiflature could
never intend any fuch thing ; what they did in-
tend is perfectly clear, and the clamour about
chartered rights, and the infringement of them,
on the prefent occafion, is nothing but a popular
outcry, raifed, in default of argument, to preju-
dice the minds of the Public, in a cafe where no
rights of the Company arc attacked, but the rights
of the Private Merchants are ferioufly endangered;
and the evident intention of the Legiflature is at-
tempted to be overruled. In fhort, Sir, if the
principle of an A6t of Parliament can be extended,
or, in other words, the fpirit can be adopted in-
ilead of the letter, I afk again, can it not as rea-
* Vide Mr. Henchman's Observations, 2d edit, for the
ttiiole of this opinion, p. 1.97-
fonably
( 29 )
fonably be claimed in refpcct to the Act of the
33d, as in refpect to the Act of the 3Qth of Geo.
III.?
Before I proceed to the Third Report, I would
here juft enquire, with what confiftency do the
Directors come to this Court complaining againft
the Government of the Country, as having "a
"decided and unequivocal intention of invading
" and destroying the commercial rights and privi-
" leges of the Company ?" If you, Sir, are cor-
rect in bating the queftion at iffue to be purely
commercial, I may very reafonably afk, by what
authority, and upon what grounds, the Court of
Directors engaged, by their fccrct Refolution of
the 25th of November laft, to fubmit the Para-
graphs intended for India to the approbation of
the Board of Commiflioners ? This part of your
unauthorized compact with Mr. Addington, how-
ever, was not of long continuance : as foon as the
Directors difcovered that the Board of Commif-
iioners would not approve juft fuch orders as they
wifhed to tranfmit to India, becaufe they were
not calculated to carry into fair effect the eleven
Proportions offered to the Minilter as the bafis of
an experiment, the concefTion was withdrawn.
By this mode of conduct, the Directors firlt infill,
the queftion is commercial, and fubject to no con-
troul : fecondly, they take upon themfelves to de-^
j that it fhall be fubmitted to the controul or
approbation
approbation of the Comrniffioners : and laftly, as
foon as they difcover that this mode of proceeding
will not anfwcr the end they expected, they pra-
ted againft their own conceffion, and fay, for the
fecond time, that the queftion is purely corn-
's/ mercial ; and that the Comrniffioners, in attempt-
ing to exercifc a controul (which the Directors had
taken upon th em 1 elves to agree to) (hewed a de-
cided and unequivocal intention of deftroying the
rights of the Company. Are men high in office
in the State to be treated in this capricious man-
ner ? Will they allow the Directors of the Eaft
India Company to fay and nnfay juft as they
pleafe ? Or, will they not rather be diflatisfied with
fuch conduct ; and if there is fo much doubt upon
the fubjc6t, remove the doubt, by a reference to
that tribunal, which alone is able to put an end to
thefe angry controversies ? Such is the predica-
ment into which the Directors have brought the
Proprietors ; and now they expect them to approve
all they have done, involving a grofs breach of the
privileges of this Court. I truft there may be
found fpirit enough among us to difappoint any
fuch expectation, by negativing the prefent motion.
I fhall now proceed to the Third Report of the
Court of Directors, which has been printed fepa-
ratcly, and is intended to fupport what was never
heard of before, an IMPERIAL EMPIKK, by avert-
ing the dreadfal ronfeqncnces which the Direc-
tors
( 3J )
tors fee in the employment of Eaft India (hip-
ping. But, Sir, before I enter upon the Report,
I muft beg to do an acl of juftice to an old friend
of mine, Mr. C. Grant, who is confefledly the /
author of the Firfl. and Second Reports from your
Committee. That Gentleman's talents I well
know, and they are to be traced in thofe Reports ;
his language, his ftyle, arid his ingenuity are evi-
dent : and, Sir, with a full recollection of their
contents, it would be unjuft indeed, that in com-
menting upon this Third Report, it fhould for a
moment be fuppofed by any one that I was com-
menting upon a work of Mr. Grant's. No, Sir;
I do moft (incerely acquit him of having had any,
the lead (hare in this compofition ; there is not a
(ingle fentence that bears the dump of his pen ; it
is the work of fome other hand ; and Mr. Grant
need not be envious of the laurels the author will
gain by the fupport this Third Report will give to
the long contefted queftion.
Perhaps, Sir, fome idea may be formed of what
is to be expected in the courfe of the argument
from the terms of the introductory paragraph.
We are told, that " in their former Report the
" Court of Directors endeavoured, hit without fuc-
" cefs, to explain the dangerous confequerices that
" are likely to follow from fueh a fyftem" (mean-
ing the fyftem of Indian (hipping) and then im-.
mediately afterwards, that " the object of the fame
" Committee
( 32 )
" Committee at prefent is, to endeavour to give
" the fubjecl a different form, and to refer to their
" former Report for elucidations which they can-
" not improve" It is very true, Sir, the author
has not improved upon the former Reports ; but
it is rather an extraordinary way of convincing, by
referring to former Reports, which have been un-
fuccefsful, and which the Committee confefs they
cannot improve ; and I was puzzled ftill more,
when I turned to the laft page of this Third Re-
port, for there I am told, that in thcfe (unfuccefs-
ful) Reports it was demonftrated } that the plans of
the Private Traders muft terminate in the deftruc-
tion of the Britifh Empire in India. Now, Sir, how
a demonstration could be unfucccfsful, I fhall ex-
pect to hear explained from your fide the bar ; for
it is generally underfiood to be proof fo ftrong and
invincible, that the mind mufl yield to it. This,
however, is not all the fingularity of the prefent
cafe : for we arc next told, that this queftion is fb
extraordinary in its nature and circumftances, that
" what would be decorous, prudent and deiire-
able on almofl every other occafion, would be cul-
pable and even criminal at prefent." How, Mr.
Chairman, could the Court be brought into this
ft range and wonderful dilemma; and what path
are we to purfue, when that which would be de-
corous, prudent and dcfireablc on other occafions,
is to be fo injurious on this ? I did hope, Sir, that
I fliould
( 33 )
I (hould have met with fome comfort, however,
when I proceeded further, becaufe I found in the
fame page, that " riot only the truth, but the
" whole truth, fhould be fubmitted to the confide-
*' ration of his Majefty's Minivers," (mark, not
the Board of Co mmiffi oners) " the Proprietors,
" and the Public" and I read again, in a later
part of this Report, that " it is indifpenfible for
" your Committee, and for the Court (of Direc-
" tors) to diveft themfelves of their private feel-
" ings, in order to do juftice to the Company and
" to the Public." From all this the Proprietors
muft perceive, that they have not had the whole
truth yet laid before them (perhaps the feparate
opinions, fo often aiked for, contain fome part of
it), nor do I, after a careful perufal of the pre-
fent Report, difcover what this wonderful infor-
mation confifts of. I really fee nothing new, ex-
cept it is the attack upon Mr. Dundas, of which
I (hall take further notice by and by. But, Sir,
I (liould have thought thefe Gentlemen would at
all times have done jufiice to the Company, and
that upon this queftion they would have fubmitted
to the General Court the whole truth long ago.
It has been rather extraordinary treatment, tho*
I believe not unprecedented here, to require the
Proprietors to give a decifive opinion, without
having the whole cafe fubmitted to them.
Proceeding further into this Report, I agree
C with
( 34 )
with the Committee of Directors, that " on a
" queftion which, in its progrefs, produces fuch
" very important and ferious confequences, mere
" opinions, drawn from inferences and fpeculative
*' calculations, ought not to be admitted." Sir, I
thii.k we ought mod readily to acquiefce in this
way of thinking; and in confcqucnce, I cxpecled
to find the Report replete wiih evidence that
could not be contefted : but in ft cad of any fuch
proofs, perhaps of all others this is the publication
mod generally fupported by inferences and bold
N aflertions. In one place the Committee confefs
they have no regular returns ; but they contend
that fuch accounts as they have fhall (land till
their infufficiency be (hewn ; and " that in the
" mean time the unauthcnticatcd rcprcfcntations
" of the perfons who are interefted in dcpriv-
" ing the Company of their Trade, be not taken
" as a bafis upon which any argument whatever
" can be built." And even afterwards the Di-
rectors add, " they truft that their adversaries fhall
" be compelled to prove, that the Trade they pro-
" pole to carry on is, in its nature, likely to be
" permanent." It appears immediately, however,
to be rather hard fervice they would impole upon
their advcrfarics, for they inftantly add, " this,
*' hcivei-ci') is impojfible" and aliign the rcafons
why.
This Report, in an early part, declares, that
the
( 35 )
the Company are always willing to remove ob-
ilacles to exports from this country. All that I
fball fay in anfwer to this is, that there is no proof
but of the contrary. In this Report the Directors /
Ihew, that 800 tons of Britifh goods were export-
ed on the Company's (hips in the year J793, but
that the exports of Private Merchants on the
Company's (hips have long fince dwindled into
nothing; yet when Indian fhips have come to the
Port of London, they have carried away fix or feven
hundred thoufand pounds worth of Britifh goods
in a feafon. Thefe are fa els, and therefore there/v
muft have been fome obftacles and obje6Hons to
the Company's fhips, which the Directors have
not removed. Indeed, it is well known there
were many, and they have been often enumerated.
I perceive, Sir, that you ftill perlift in the idea,
that (hips are the end, and goods only the means ;
but I do not difcover any proofs to eftablifh this
opinion, and the queftion has already been fully
difcuffed. I find, however, the Directors them- ^
feves allow in this Report, that " in a very fhort
" time the Traders in Goods, and the Owners of
" Ships, \viil become in India, as they are in other
" parts of the world, different pevfons." If fo,
what becomes of all the long arguments we have
heard about the means and the end, and the bad
confcqucnces of the Ship-owner and the Mer-
chant being one and the fame party ?
C a I
( 3d )
I fhall now proceed to the queftion of Capital,
upon which your Committee fay, " they fhall
" prove, that the larger part of the capital em-
" ployed in this Trade is Britifh, and not Indian."
After fome fearch, I found the promifed proof,
and it is this : they ftate the amount exported from
Bengal, by Private Merchants, at 783,0001. and
the amount imported by them to the fame place
at 303,0001. leaving a balance of 483,0001. The
Indian capital, therefore, fay the Direclors, does
not exceed 303,0001. Sir, this is a moft extraor-
dinary fort of proof. The Merchant draws bills
of exchange on his correfpomlent in London for
the 483,0001. it is admitted ; but he muft get the
money for which he draws, from fome refident in
Indra, and therefore furely it is, bonajide, what has
been called India Capital. If you mean to de-
prive the Indian Merchant of his credit, I under-
Hand you : but I cannot confent, that it is Britifh
Capital he trades on, becaufe his correfpondent in
London accepts his bills, upon goods coniigned
to him. But there is an eafy remedy for this, fay
the Committee : " check the trade of Indian Mer-
<f chants; fuch a check will not operate to the pre-
"judice either of India, the Company, or the
* c Public." Here is the prcfent opinion of the Di-
reclors, briefly and openly given : return to all
your former coercive meafures; renew all your
penal laws; there is your remedy. Now, Sir, have
we
( 37 )
we any proof, in Head of this mere afTertion, that
it will be a remedy ? No ; but we have abundance
of experience in proof, that thefe checks will revive
and fupport Foreign and Clandeftine Trade; in-
fomuch, that the Dire6tors were very loud againft
them; and defired, only a fhort time fince, that
they might be removed.
The comparifon that is made in this Report
between Britifh, Indian, and foreign fhips ; and
between Britifh and Indian owners, is not the leaft
extraordinary part of it. It is not my wifh to
enter into, this comparifon between any two de-
fcriptions of Merchants; it is not for me to take
the liberty of pointing one out as extortioners,
and crying up the other for their public fpirit and
generofity. Nor will the old owners be very thank-
ful for this panegyric, when they recollect that the
very fame Directors, only a few years fince,
charged them with fimilar extortion, and faid the
Company only employed their fhips becaufe they
could not get any others. It fuits the prefent pur-
pole to ufe this language; but the juitice of it is
very questionable. As to generofity in counting-
houfes, I believe that is not the place to look for
it; every Merchant makes the belt bargain he can,
according to what he has to difpofc of; thefe Gen-
tlemen have done no more, and I am perfectly
fatislied, that they poflefs as much generofity and
liberality in fociety as any other men.
C 3 But,
( 38 )
But, Sir, the inftance brought forward in the
prefent Report, carries with it its own refutation.
The Governor General found himfclf, above a
twelvemonth ago, under a cafual ncceffity to en-
gage all the Iliips he could meet with for an extra
and dangerous fervice: the Bengal Merchants were
called on to derange all their commercial engage-
ments; and to let their Ships to the Government ;
they did fo ; but they required a high price,
\vhich the Governor General gave. " The Gabriel,
" one of thefc (hips," fay the Directors " is cn-
" gaged at loOol. per month, for nine months, or
"13,5001. ; whilft the Rockingham, one of the
" Company's fhips, performs the fame ferv ; ce for
*' 6301. per month, or for nine months, 5,4501.
t( making a difference and a lofs to the Company
" of 8,0501. : the Public and the Company, lays
" the third Report, ought to be rcfcued from fuch
" avarice and extortion." But, Sir, is this a fair
ilate of the cafe? Was the Rockingham engaged
for this fingle and dangerous fervice ? You know
fhe was not, but that (he is, after fervirig fix
voyages as a regular fhip, engaged to perform a
voyage in the Company's frrvirc, upon their dif-
mantled plan ; that she happened to be in India at
the time, of courfe was railed upon to go on this
fervice, as within the covenants of her contract.
The Directors, therefore, take the rate agreed to
under very different circumstances, to make a com-
parifon
( 3Q )
parifon with the Gabriel ; and bcfkles this, they
omit to ftate, that at prefent they have a law-fuit
with the owners of another (hip, the Martha, on
this very queftion. And, Sir, I have good reafon
for thinking, that the owners of the Rockingham
will difpute this very point with the Directors,
and not reft fatisfied with 6;30l. per month as here
allowed them. A lew months will fhew whether
I am right or wrong, and even then, if they are
compelled to fubmit, it will be only in confequence
of a previous exifting contract, by which they are
obliged to fcrve in trade and in warfare on cer-
tain conditions. It is therefore impofllble to draw
a fair companion between the two. But, Sir, the
Directors might, if the object had not been to dif-
parage the Indian owners, have ftatccl, that when
Lord Wellefley lately talked of fending three or
four regular (hips to China for want of cargoes,
that arch offender, Mr. Fairlie, offered to furnifa
the Governor General with goods to the value of
18 or 2O laes, in order to preverr it: and it is very
probable thefe fhips are now on their voyage home,
fupp'ied with cargoes by one of thole very men
who are ab tiled as extortioners; and inftead of
aiding, to be taking every opportunity to injure
and diftrcfs the Company. Next, Sir, with regard
i " *
to the companion between Indian and European
(hips, as to dcarnefs ; foreign Europe (hips are
fait! to be the chcapcft, and teak (hips the dearcft;
C 4 this
( 40 )
this I totally deny, upon the information I have
had. Perhaps many people will agree with me,
when they are acquainted that teak fhips will go
eight or ten voyages to India and back, without
any repair at all ; whilft an oak fhip is never able to
go above three voyages without a thorough repair,
at an expence of many thoufand pounds. In an
early part of this Report, great fault is found with
an honourable Friend of mine, (Mr. D. Scott) not
only becaufe he has differed with the reft of the
Directors on this fubjccl, but a letter of his, of fo
old a date as 1787, is brought forward, to (hew
what unfounded and ill digcfted proportions he
at times recommended. This letter contained a
plan of increafing the exports of Britifh manufac-
tures yearly to a great amount. He aflerted, that
the Company had riot for years fent out above one
quarter of their tonnnge in goods. Now, Sir, it
is curious to fee the method, which, the Report
ftates, was followed, toafcertain whether this affer-
tion was correct or not. " To fuch a propofal,
" one Jingle faft was oppofedby the Court of Direc-
<e tors, namely, that at the time Mr. Scott made
" the propofals, returns were received of the draught
" of water of each fhip, as the only means to enable the
" Court to a [certain^ whether the fhips were not too
" full to perform the voyage from Europe to
" many parts of India with fecurity ; and on fe-
c vcral occaiions, (hips were not fuffered to pro-
" ceed
* 5 ceed until fome part of the cargo was taken out,
(( in confequence of the (hips being overloaded.
" Suck a decifi've proof of the want of any bafis on
" which a project of fo much importance could
" reft, gave the Company a fhort refpite until the
"years 17Q2-Q3, when it appeared in another
tf form, &c. &c." Mr. Chairman, I really doubt /
my own fenfes, to undcrftand fo (imple a cafe as
this, when the Court of Directors fhall ferioufly
aflert, that the only means to afcertain whether their
Jhips 'were overloaded (with Company's cargo) was to
take their draught of water, and this is called a de-
ciftve proof, Pray, Sir, was it not poffible that /
other perfons betides the Company might have
goods on board thofe fhips ? Such things have
happened ; there have been times when (hips
outward-bound have been half laden with Clan-
deftine Tade ; and on that occafion, there was a
more obvious and decifive teft, which might have
been referred to I mean the invoice of each (hip's
cargo belonging to the Company, and the ac- \
count of the tonnage it occupied. However, in-
ftead of throwing a reflection on the offer of Mr.
Scott, it is entitled to much praife ; for on a refer-
ence to the amount of Britifh goods exported by
the Company, it did not much exceed half a mil-
lion in 1 787, and it has continued to increafe gra-
dually ever (ince, infomuch, that this laft feafon it
amounts to two millions. This has been the effect
of
of that letter; and whoever was the author of a
propofition producing fuch a confequence, has done
great fervice to the Public.
In purfuing this Report, I find the Directors
afTert, that " the Foreign Trade mud revive and
" will increafe," but they foon afterwards fay
tc there appears to be an npprchenfiori about the
" Foreign Trade, which no practical Foreign Mcr-
" chant can underfland. It is but fair to alk for a
" fingle inftance wherein it lias fuccceded ?" And
they then defcribe how every Foreign Company has
been ruined, as well as numbers of Private Mer-
chants, and the remainder of them are ftated to be
infignificant. In fhort, fay the Directors, " there
" was a wreck of general and individual enterprise"
Thcfe furcly are not proofs that the Foreign Trade
mnjl rev I've and wilt incrctifc. I do not, however,
go this length with the Directors ; I know there
will be a Foreign Trade, as well as that there was
a Foreign Trade, of good credit ; but how exten-
five that Trade will be, depends more upon the
fettlcment of the prefent quell ion than upon any
other circumftancc uhatcver. y\ll 1 contend for is,
that the Britilh Government fhouid interpofe, and
bring as much of this Trade as poiiible to the
River Thames, and in particular that which is car-
ried on with Brililh capital.
Thefe. Private Traders are, in various parts of the
prcfcnt Report, ftated to intercept the Company's
funds,
( 43 )
funds, and to foreftall the Company's market.
How are thcfe points maintained ? In my opinion,
not more fatisfactorily than any of the preced-
ing. Let us firft examine into the funds What
have the Company raifed during this war by bills
on the Directors, and by bonds given in India ? I
fhall not be contradicted, when I ftate it at ten or
twelve million fterling. But I need not go fo far
back ; I have evidence enough in my favour in this
Report ; it is there dated, that very late loans in
India amount to 2,200,OOOl. ; and that 1,200,0001.
of this laro;e fum is borrowed at Madras at one
o
time, in the autumn of laft year. Now, Sir,
initead of intercepting the funds, here is a clear
proof that the Government of Madras were able, a
few months ago, to negociate a larger loan than
they ever negociated before., fince the exiftence of
the Company. How does this happen ? Why, it
happens from the trade, credit, and circulation of
thefe very men, whom the Directors wifh to de-
ftroy. In the former war (diftinguifhed as the
American war) there was no fuch clafs of men
What was the flate of the Company's credit then?
They had incumbrances of only half the amount of
the prefcnt debt, yet their means were exhaufted,
and their paper at Bombay was 65 per cent, dif-
count at Madras it was 50, and at Bengal 3O
or 35 per cent, below par. What is it now ? Such
Paper
( 44 )
Paper as bears an intereft of 6 per cent, is at a dif-
count of 22 per cent.
Paper of 8 per cent, is at a difcount of 7 or
8 per cent.
Paper of 12 per cent, is at par.
The Company's credit is therefore much better at
this time than it was at the former ; and there is
no doubt it will continue to be fo, as long as en-
couragement (hall be given to the general trade
of their fettlements. Next, Sir, as to forestalling
the Company's markets It is a circumflance de-
ferving attention, that in the early part of the Re-
port thcfc Merchants are reproached with not ex-
porting Eritifh manufactures; and the proof is,
that in 800 tons of merchandize exported by one
houfe, there was only one ton of woollens. Here
is a glaring proof that they do not interfere or
foreflall the Company's markets ; for woollens are
one of the grand ftaples the Company deal in.
But the Merchants are accufed of failing without
convoy, and doing every thing they could to get
to an early market. It is true, they ufed, as all
Private Merchants mull, the beft diligence they
could ; they often failed with any convoy to the
weilward, inftead of the Eaft India convoy, but
very feldom, I am told, failed abiblutcly without any
convoy at all. There are, however, other circuin-
ftanccs to be brought into this account ; the ar-
ticles they generally deal in arc clifkTcnt from the
Company's
( 45 )
Company's Trade : woollens, copper, naval ftores,
the Company may engrofs ; and for the fale of
thefe articles in India, the Company have fettled
periods by auction, which they would not alter,
whether the fhips of individuals arrived before or
after them. This regards the outward Trade.
With refpecl: to the imports from India, it is well
known that the Company's goods are always fold
firft, fo that the goods of Private Merchants can-
not get to auction till after them ; and this is more
particularly evident, as they are all under lock and
key in the Company's warehoufes.
We are told in one part of the Report, that the
Exclufive Trade is to be the falvation of the Court ;
I wifh, Sir, it could be fhewn to be equal to any
fuch effect ; the profits of the China Trade may
poffibly be equal to the annual dividends ; but we v-
are here fpeaking of the Indian Trade. That
there are no profits upon the exports is admitted,
and I have many doubts as to the returns from
India. I have a right to entertain thefe doubts,
from your own Reports and accounts given at dif-
ferent periods ; but I will mention one circum-
fiance that poffibly may make every man who
hears me, doubt alfo. In the calculations made
by the Directors, no intereit of money is charged
on the capital employed, yet a great part of the
Company's Indian investment is made with money
borrowed at Indian hucreli ; and the courfe of the
bulineis
bufinefs is this it is borrowed early in the yea?
to be advanced to the native Manufacturers the
goods are delivered in the courfe of the year-
they are (hipped the beginning of the next year
at the end of it they arc fold in England and
in the beginning of the third year Britifh manu-
factures are (hipped in return, which may be fold
in the courfe of that feafon ; fo that it muft be
thirty or thirty-fix months before the money is
realized to pay off the bond that was given for
the firft loan to make the investment. To this
we may add 5 per cent, conferred to be lolt in
the exports, fo that it may fairly be faid 35 per
cent, is on this account to be added to the Com-
pany's expences in making up the account. I
will not ftop to notice many other charges not
calculated on by the Directors ; this alone is fuf-
J
ficicnt to raife very fcrious doubts, whether the
Company gain any thing by their Indian inveft-
ments ; but, fay the Directors, " the furplus has
*' not appeared fo large as it ought to have done,
" from the Company's adherence to the old forms
" of making up the accounts." Now, Mr. Chair-
man, I contend the very contrary of this, and af-
fcrt, that if they did not adhere to thefe old forms,
the furplus would appear liill Icfs, in Head of more ;
for the practice of the India-houfe is, and has long
been, to value the rupee at two (hillings, whereas
they have bills upon them at rates of exchange
much
much higher, which, of courfe, muft reduce in-
,itead of augmenting their furplus profits.
In this part of the Report, it is alked with
fome confidence, " Will the Indian Agents and
Traders fubmit to a limitation of their profit, in
the fame manner as the Company ? Will they
" pay what they get, over and above 10 per cent.
tl into the public Trcafury, for the benefit of the
" State ?" It may fafely be anfwered, the India
Company do no fuch thing. (Look to the Acl of
1793, Seel. 3.) When the Company had a Trade
only to carry on, and no territory, the Govern-
ment knew them to be equal to but a very mode-
rate contribution ; and it was only when the Com-
pany appeared to have a furplus revenue of above
a million, that they ftipulated with them for
500.0001. per annum for the benefit of the pub-
lic, \vhich the circumftances of the times have and
will prevent them from paying, during the whole
of their prefent Charter. It may, therefore, rea-
fonably be aiked What great benefit the Public
receive, except from the increafe of the India Trade
generally ?
On thefubject of Lafcars, and the appeals which
are here made to humanity concerning them the
cafes are overftrained and are few. Many fhips
have come with their crews of Lafcars, as health v
as fhips with Europeans, or we thould have had
more examples. But. Mr Chairman, the fair way
of
( 48 )
of deciding where the inhumanity refts, is by giving
a comparative account of the number of Lafcars
and Englifh feamen, loft in this Trade altogether.
I iincerely believe it would be found, that as
many Britifh failors die on the Ganges as Lafcars
do on the Thames, or, why are your regular (hips
fo often obliged to take black feamen to aflift in
your homeward bound voyages ?
It is not a matter of any furprife to me, but it
is deferving of attention, that the Directors take
fo little notice of the Cotton Trade, and the large
fupply of tonnage it would require. It is a trade fo
precarious, that the Directors know they cannot
attempt to furnilh Britifh tonnage for it ; yet they
would rather leave it to the Americans than to
Private Merchants in India. Ten or twelve thou-
fand tons of teak (hipping have come here with
this article in one feafon ; but a bad harveft may
prevent any coming, when the Directors have fent
(hipping to bring it. Thofe (hips may only be
juft returned, when the next harveft (hall have in-
creafcd the flock in fuch a degree, that the Mer-
chants would wi(h to export it to Enghmd in as
large a quantity as ever. Nothing but Chipping
on the fpot can fuit fuch a trade, in oppofition to
the vigilance and cnterprizc of America, who has
at this time 300 vcffcls engaged in the trade with
India and China, and who had lately fcvcral Chips
on the Malabar coaft, wanting cargoes of cotton,
as
they declared, to fupply the Englifh Manufac-
turers on this ifland. I now come, 1 confefs, to a
part of this Report, and it is the only part very flat-
tering and gratifying to myfelf ; it is that where
the Directors exprefs a hope that the fame thing
will be done which I recommended to them to do
laft May ; I mean, to confult the late Governors
General of India. They would infinuate indeed,
that the queftion then propofed to be put to thefe
high characters was, u Whether the Exclulive
" Trade (hall remain in the hands of the Com-
" pany, or be transferred to a few Indian Traders ?"
But, fortunately, the motion ftands on record, and
bears the cleareft evidence of the contrary. At
that time, Mr. Chairman, fuch a reference, the Di-
rectors laid, would have been " unconftltutional in
" itfelf." I hope it will be explained how that is
poffible. " It would have degraded the dignity of
< c the Proprietors, and would have proved hutni-
" Hating to the Directors." All thefe objections
are now got over, and I am happy to find it is fo ;
I am as ready as ever to abide that teft, confident
that they are the proper parties to advife with on
fuch an important fubjcct.
In this part of the Report, there is a paragraph
which I hardly know how to defcribe, perhaps it
may be intended for the profound it is fhort, and
I will read it. Speaking of the Priv 7 ate Merchants
and their deftructive Propofitions, the Report (page
D 100)
( 50 )
100) proceeds : " But they (the Merchants) are
" not aware, that, whilft they contend to deftroy
te the part of an ancient, firm, extcnfive fabric, over
*' which they have no legal right or claim what-
"ever, the ancient, real Proprietors, finding thcm-
" felves deprived of that broad (hield, which has
" hitherto protected and preferved inviolate, under
" the Britifh Constitution, all corporate bodies, may
" fpurn at the ruin which will remain." Mr,
Chairman, I really do not understand
[Here Mr. Bofanquet (a Director), got up
haftily, and was about to interrupt Mr.
Henchman ; when Mr. Henchman, turning
to him, faid " Sir, if you are the Author
of this part of the Report, and wifh to ex-
plain it, I will readily take my feat, while
you do fo." Mr. Bofanquet made no an-
fwcr, but fat down. Mr. Henchman went
on ]
Other rcafons, befidcs the want of time, prevent
me from following this Report through every part ;
and from comparing it with other opinions which
the Directors have given : there are, however, con-
trarieties fo very apparent, that they mufi ftrike
every reader. The Private Merchants arc too often
ace u fed of wilhing to ruin the Company, and to
exclude cverv body from the Trade but thcmfeJves.
It is fometimcs faid, that they cannot make the
Trade to anfwer ; that two Ihort years will cxpofe
their
( 51 )
their errors, and fhew that their plans are not
practicable ; yet in that (hort fpace of time thefe
adventurers are to acquire fortunes, and the Com-
pany's Charter will be deftroyed. All this is to
happen, although we have already the experience
of a few years, and no fingle inflance is produced
to fhew that they have deviated from the rules
laid down for them ; that any perfons have got to
India that ought not, through their means ; or
that any thing has occurred to make Colonization
more apparent. If any complaint can be made
againft thefe Traders, \vhilft ufing Teak Ships, I
beg it may be brought forward ; and, that we
may have proof, inftead of affertion, according to
the doctrine laid down early in this Report itfelf.
[We lament that we have to ftatc, that Mr.
Henchman had now for a long time expe-
rienced great interruption from the noife
in the Court, and a continual call for the
Queftion. It was abfolutely impoffible for
him to proceed ; and the Chairman inter-
pofed without effect. Mr. Henchman,
however, perfevered ; and when the cla-
mour and noife was very loud, he flopped
entirely, and waited until itfubfided. Mr.
Twining ir.terpofed fometimes with efF< cl,
but oftcncr without it. Sir Francis Bar'wp
c3
faid, if there were time enough, he would
pledge himfelf to refute every argument
D '2 advanced
( 52 )
advanced by the honourable Proprietor, who
had rifcn to fpeak at a late hour of the day,
and was continuing to fpeak, till it was
fo late that no one could anfwer him ; and
then he would fill the newfpapers with
what he had faid. Mr. Henchman bore all
this interruption with remarkable patience,
attending to nothing but the qucftion, and
proceeding, from time to time, as filence
could be obtained. Surely this difordcr of
the Court was highly unbecoming, and
would better become a bear-garden than a
deliberative aflembly of rcfpeclable mer-
chants. Are the Gentlemen aware that fuch
diforder and difgrace ftrikes at the free-
dom of debate, one of the moft important
and boafted characleriftics of the bleffings
of our glorious Conftitution one of the
happy di functions between free fubjecls,
and the flavcs of arbitrary power and clef-
pot ic government ?]
Mr. Henchman faid, he was forry for the late-
nefs of the day, but it was not his fault ; the fub-
ject was fo copious, that it was not to be gone
through in an hour. lie faid he was perfectly
ready to adjourn, and meet again at twelve to-mor-
row, if Gentlemen preferred it.
The CHAIRMAN laid, No, no. We had better
have it all out now. The Proprietors would not
be
( 53 )
be pleafed at having fuch another long day to-
morrow.
Mr. Henchman continued. I now, Sir, come to
a part of the Report, which I am exceedingly forry
to find treated in the manner it is : I mean the
attack upon the late Minifter for India, Mr.
Dundas
[The clamour and noife in the Court was now
renewed ; fome called out, that was not the
queftion ; that Mr. Henchman was difor-
derly ; that the queftion was Private Trade ;
and one Director faid, that for the laft ten
minutes Mr. Henchman had been fpeak-
ing from the queftion. J
Mr. Henchman replied, I truft I am in order ;
I mean to be fo ; and I am fpeaking to nothing but
the contents of the Third Report. [Clamour re-
newed, and queftion loudly called for.] I am
forry I cannot yet come to a conclufion, I may
be an hour longer, and thefe interruptions will
make it ftill later. I appeal to the Chair ; if the
Chair fhall declare that I am not to be admitted
to fpeak to certain parts of the Report, I (ball
fubmit. I beg the Chair to declare whether I am
in order or not.
[The Chairman at laft was heard, and de-
clared Mr. Henchman was perfectly in or-
der, and ought to be allowed to proceed.]
Mr. Henchman continued. Sir, I thank you
D 3 for
( 54 )
ior your candour, and I repeat, that I am exceed-
ingly forry to find in the Report, this wanton,
unmerited, and difrcfpeclful attack upon Mr. Dun-
das ; and I more particularly regret to find, among
the Gentlemen who fign it, the name of an ho-
nourable Baronet and Friend of mine (Sir H. Inglis)
who fo lately, and fo creditably filled the feat you
occupy. Sir, that very Gentleman about a twelve-
month fince. brought forward certain Kefolutions of
a very different complexion, refpeclingthe fame right
honourable Character. I beg, Mr. Chairman, that
the papers relative to the penfion granted to Mr.
Dundas may now be read. [[Here confiderable in-
terruption occurred, and much difinclmation ap-
peared within the bar to the production of the
Papers.] I think I have a right to the papers, they
are in pofTcffion of the Court of Proprietors ; they
are on their own records : but as the objection
feems to be ftill maintained, I will do without them ;
though I beg the refufal may be marked : I have
the Kclolution in my mcrnoiy, and I will repeat it.
In Feb. 180), upon IV] r. Dundas' s rcfignation of
the office of President of the Board of Commif-
fioncrs, the Directors came to a rcfolution highly
flattering to Air. Dundas ; pafling high enco-
miums on his ad mini it ration ; and begging that he
would accept a penfion of 20OO1. per annum, as
fomc acknowledgment of the great ferviccs he had
rendered to the Company, during the time he had
filled
( 55 )
filled the pod of Proficient of the Board of Comrnii-
fioners; and, not content \vith this liberal offer,
they requcfted further, that he would condefcend
to accept of the ufe of a houfe during his life, at
the expence of 50Ol. per annum more to the Com-
pany. I remember well with how much zeal my
honourable Friend recommended to the Court of
Proprietors to confirm this proportion, which the
Directors had made to Mr. Dundas: and I do not
recollect at that time, that any one Director offered
a fingle objection, or faid that he dirTented from it.
The right honourable Gentleman has been out of
office from that time to the prefent day ; he can
therefore have done nothing fince, to induce the ,
Directors to alter their opinion of him, except it <
be, having manifefted, that he entertains the fame
fentiments which he did before he went out of of-
fice, reflecting the employment of Teak Ihips in v"
Private Trade : and which fentiments particularly
appear in his letter of the 2d of April, 1800. Sir,
thefe fentiments are now fo offenfive to the Direc-
tors, that in difcuffing the fubjcct, they cannot
forego an opportunity, however indifcreet, to intro-
duce irrelevant matter, to take away from the
weight of an opinion to which both Ikies of the
bar have been long ufed to pay fo great a (hare
of refpect. A review is therefore to be taken of
the general ftate of the Company's affairs, al-
though you, Mr. Chairman, fo earneftly deprecated
D4 all
( 56 )
all fuch enquiry, as extremely dangerous, in your
famous letter of the 7th of November lad, ad-
dreffed to Mr. Addington ; and which has been fo
fully commented on by my learned Friend (Mr.
Impey) this day. How can the prefent diflertation
be juftified, if what you faid in that letter was rea-
fonable? However, the fact is, that in this Report,
we find the late Prefident, whofe adrniniftration
was fo much extolled laft year, and fo amply re-
warded, is now charged with being the author, or
acceflbry of almoft every thing that has brought
the prefent. imminent diftrefs upon the affairs of
the Company, and that has reduced their affairs to
fuch a ftatc, according to your opinion, that it
would be dangerous to look into them. He has
increaled our cftablifhments to a ruinous extent;
he has allowed our political rcfourccs to be ab-
forbed ; he has given afliftancc to deprive the
Company of the resources they aclually poflcfled,
under pretence of contributing towards the prof-
perity of the Indian Empire. And a companion
is gone into between the period of diflrcfs in which
he began his adminift ration, and the ftatc in which
he has left the Company's affairs, on retiring from
office ; and after this companion is drawn, it is
faid, " Thcfc difcuffions and compariibus are pain-
" ful in the extreme; but when the Company
''' find that attempts arc made, and fn^ortcd l>y
' fuch powerful intcrrjl, to deprive them of the
" only
( 57 )
" only means to reftore their affairs, under un-
" founded pretences, it is indifpenfable for your Com- *
" mittee, and for the Court, to diveft themfelves of
" their private feelings, in order to do juftice to
" the Company and the Public."
Sir, this paragraph from the Report fpeaks too
plainly for itfelt ; I do not vvifh to give it an inter-
pretation ; it is too clear who is meant by this
powerful intereft, that is acting this extraordinary V
part under unfounded pretences. But I muft afk,
if all this objection lay again ft Mr. Dundas, where
was the juftice towards the Company in unani-
moufly recommending for him the penfion of
2O001. per annum ? And where was the duty to-
wards the Company in keeping all thefe opinions
fecret ? for I believe I may venture to ttate, that
hardly an in fiance occurs for many years paft, of
the Directors communicating to I lie Proprietors,
that the late Prelident had fuggcfted any one thing V
which threatened injury to the Company's affairs.
It may alib reafonably be a Heed, whether many of
the arrangements alluded to, were not the a els of
the Directors themfelves, and only paffed in review
before Mr. Dundas from his prclidingin the Board
ot Control ? 1 will not at prefcnt take up more
time in inquiring who is relponlible ; I will only
repeat, that the introduction of this matter in the
prelent Report appears to have arilcn from a mo-
tive that I am lorry fhould influence a public body ;
and that it is probable, if it had not been for that
influence,
( 58 )
influence, the Directors would not even now " have
" divefted themfelves of their private feelings to do
"juftice to the Company." But, Sir, this exa-
mination having been gone into by the Commit-
tee of Directors, and the ftate of the Company re-
prcfented as deplorable, comparatively with what it
was in J/83: it becomes necefTary to look at
their circum (lances at that period, and at prefent.
Abroad, in 1785-4, the Company was indebted ten
or twelve millions fterling ; at prefent they owe
twenty millions fterling. But, Sir, in thefe twenty-
millions, there may be five millions with which the
Company charge the Government of Great Britain,
for military and other fervices, including the expe-
dition to Egypr, undertaken on their account. If
fo, Sir, it is doubtful whether your debts abroad at
this time, exceed what they were in \ 783-4, more
than three or four millions : but, Mr. Chairman, I
have no objection to looking at the companion
between the two periods, with all the a (fumed dif-
fence between a debt of ten millions in 17S3-4,
and twenty millions at the prefent day, which is
ftated to occafion fuch infinite d ill reft. If we look
to the diftrcfs abroad in 1 783-4, it will be feen that
the Company's credit was quite cxhaufted ; their
bonds and other feeurities were at the enormous
difcount of ()5 per cent, at Bombay ; of 50 per cent.
at Madras; and of 30 or 35 per cent, at Bengal.
Bills of exchange were never regularly paid ; the
civil and military were greatly in arrears; and the
army
( 59 )
army at laft in a ftate of abfolute mutiny for their
pay. In 1801, the army is paid up ; the civil fer-
vants are paid in paper without murmuring ; the
difcount on bonds and fecurities is very low ; not
exceeding 7 or 8 per cent, except on paper that
bears the lovveft intereft, that is 6 per cent, and
upon that only 22 per cent. ; and fo far from the
Company's credit being exhaufted, the Govern-
ments in India have, within thefe few months, bor-
rowed more money than ufual ; in particular at Ma-
dras, they have negociated one loan for 1,200,0001.
a thing unheard of till now. This is not a ilate
for defpair; it may require a fyftem of reform and
economy both abroad and at home ; and peace,
which is now accomplifhed, affords the faired op-
portunity of entering upon both. As to the lit ua-
tion of the Company in Great Britain, it has been
repeatedly ftated from behind the bar as very prof-
perous, and I hope we are not in any error on that
fubjccl:. The Sales have been very large ; the
Treafury has been very full ; Bills of Exchange have
been paid in advance ; you have not been obliged
to go to Parliament in forma paupens, or in any
form, unlefs it may be to defire they will difcharge
the long bill you have again (I the Government.
Your credit is fo perfectly good, you could circu-
late a million more Bonds ; you could purchafe to
any amount of Exports on credit. The Bank will
lend you ; you have 1 ,200,0001. of annuities you
can fell ; in fhort, you have afTets at command, if
Government
Government will but be ju ft towards you, of at
leaft eight millions fterling. You may, therefore, I
hope, go on without calling for any additional capi-
tal ; and, I believe, you owe in England at this
time one million and a half lefs than you did in
1/83-4, at which time the Company's credit and
ability was fo very low, that you were obliged to
go to Parliament to folicit that you might have a
longer time allowed for the difcharge of 900,000!.
arrear of duties ; and that you might be protected
againft the holders of bills from India, and be au-
thorifed to defer payment of them for two or three
years after they became due. Now, Mr. Chair-
man, if there is any truth in this fiat e of the Com-
pany's affairs at home and abroad, taking into the
confideration whatever the prefent debt may ex-
^eed the former, I do not think there is reafon
fufficient to conclude, that things arc now lo in-
finitely more alarming and defpcrate than they
were in 1 783-4. All this is open to the obferva-
tion of every man who will take the trouble of ex-
amining fuch accounts and documents as are pub-
lifhed ; but, as it is pofftblc we do not yet " know
" the whole truth," I do not pretend to offer any
dccifive opinion on the real ft ate of the Company's
affairs. Perhaps we may be allowed, one day or
other, to go into a complete examination of them ;
and I differ, I confels, Mr. Chairman, fo far from',
you on the fubjcct, that the fooner that is done, in
my opinion, the better.
But.
( 61 )
But, Sir, condemn no man, and efpecially a mad
like the late Minifter for India, whom you have
fo uniformly praifed, without a very different re-
view and examination of your affairs, than what is
given in this Report : common juftice would re-
quire it for any man ; refpect for paft and acknow-
ledged fervices requires it for the Ex-Minifter.
There are many other parts of this Report which
challenge obfervation.
[Here was a violent call for the QuefHon, and
Mr. Henchman could not proceed for fome
time. At laft filence was obtained.]
Mr. Chairman, I have ftill much to lay, particu-
larly about Shipping, and in anfwer to the aflertions
which are made to convince that Indian (hips are
the dearclt ; but I fhall not trouble the Court
%^
further on that fubjcct at prefent than to obferve,
that I ftill retain the opinion I have long enter-
tained of teak fhips being upon the whole the
cheapeft ; that thev are the bed fuitcd for the
Trade, the Directors themfelves confeis in their
former Report, wherein they fay, " Indian fhips
" would have a clear advantage over others, be-
< caufe the equipment would be acljuficd with cer-
" tainty to the number and times of the cargoes
" procurable." But, Sir, there is a matter which
the Directors carefully keep out of fight, that I
* inuft brine; into view : and that is, their Memorial
\ i
to the Lords of the Treafury in 1797> containing
fentiments and principles diametrically oppofite to
what
( 62 ;
tvhat they contend for at prefent. It is reafonable
to afk, why the Court of Directors have not in any
one place attempted to fhew how their opinions
declared in 179/ 5 are to be reconciled with their
opinions in 1801? Even after they have been fo
often reminded of the contradictions, this Third
Report is as cantioufly filent upon that point as
the two preceding. My learned Friend (Mr. Im-
pey) has handled this point with his ufual ability,
and I afk with him, what anfwer can be given
to this memorial ? How can it be reconciled with
the later conduct of the Court of Directors ?
Neither do the Court of Directors point out
any of thofe grofs errors they fay exift in opinions
that have been publifhcd in oppofition to their Re-
ports, although they exprcfs confiderable anxiety,
that nothing but proofs fhould be paid any atten-
tion to by this Court. I with, Sir, they had
abided by their own rule ; and it may not be af-
fuming too much to conclude, that they would have
done fo oftencr, if they had been poffeded of any
proofs fatisfaclory to thcrnfelves.
The laft part of the Report that I (hall this
evening take notice of, is the repented afTertion,
that the Surplus Trade of India cannot be brought
to the River Thames ; and that a thort time would
(hew the erroneous principles and plans of the
Merchants. If fo, why not allow an experiment to
be made on equal terms ? If the Merchants will
fo foon be lofers and bankrupts by the trade, why
all
( 63 )
all this anxiety to prevent them from making a
trial, that, by the declarations of the Direclors, muft
fo iliortly afford proof, that they (the Direclors) are
right, and their opponents wrong? The violent
oppofition that is made to any fuch experiment,
affords a very ftrong prefumption, that the Direc-
tors are not fo confident in the" event as they are
in the aflertion. However, Sir, be the error on
which fide it may (and I have great and moft re-
fpeclable encouragement ftill to think it does not
lay with thofe whofe caufe 1 efpoufe), I do truft
the Court will difcern, that no good confequences
can refult from their confirming, as is propofed,
the intemperate Refolution of the Court of Direc-
tors of the 26th of laft month. Is it reafonable,
is it refpectful, is it true, that the Government
of the country has " demonftrated a decided and
" unequivocal intention of invading arid deftroying
<c the commercial rights and privileges of the Eaft
" India Company ?" What can the Eaft India
Company gain by making this violent declaration
of war with the Adminifiration ? and where have
the Directors fhewn this to be the fact ? They
have not pointed out in what part of the corrected
orders this intention is manifeftcd ; and the mo-
tion before you will only lead to the continuation
of that, predicament in which the Directors have
been for many months, in confequence of a Re-
folution equally imprudent, pafled by this Court on
the '28th of May : or it muft lead to a confequence
which
( 64 )
which all have profefled a defire to avoid, that is^
the fubjecl going into Parliament, where, for my
Own part, if this amendment is rejected, and the
original motion is approved, I think it impoffible
to prevent its going; and it is indeed time we had
done with it, if intemperance is fo far to prevail,
that his Majefty's Minifters are treated with marked
difrefpecl, and if common decorum and civility can
no longer be prefervecl in the courfeofour debate,
even towards the perfon and character of the re-
fpeclable Nobleman who now prefides at the Board
t of Commiffioners. Too much heat, animofity, and
influence of private interefts, is got amongft us ;
it is time, therefore, that the difcuffion fhould come
to an end in this place, and be referred to ano-
ther, where it will be entered upon coolly and dif-
paffionately ; where the examination will proceed
upon public principles, and where clamour and
uproar is not admitted ; where thofe who are to
decide will not be under the influence of favours
received or expelled ; bur will, after a candid and
thorough inveftigation of the merits, come to that
decifion which (hall be juft towards the India
Company, and moft beneficial to the general in-
terefts of the kingdom at large.
T.Gitlet, Printer, u..r. .
UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA LIBRARY
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