"» l ^»«" 
 
 ' I 

 
 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA 
 AT LOS ANGELES
 
 THE 
 
 QUESTION 
 
 O F T H E 
 
 PRECEDENCY 
 
 O F T H E 
 
 PEERS 
 
 O F 
 
 Ireland in England, 
 
 FAIRLY STATED. 
 
 Jn a Letter to an English Lord, 
 
 ^jNoblemano/^ other Kingdom. 
 
 r — ' — — 1 
 
 Alieni appetens, fui frofufus. 
 
 D V B L I N: 
 Printed in the Year MDCCXX^IX.
 
 
 -
 
 
 i 
 
 ESI*. 
 
 ♦ . 
 
 TO THE 
 
 
 ^READER 
 
 : ■ 
 
 iJJS Cifap* gf the Peers of 
 
 Ireland having been admitted 
 upon the unhappy Occajion of 
 the Procejjion at the Funeral of her 
 tate Majefiy ^ueen Caroline, in 
 which they were allowed the Place 
 and Rank which they had ever be* 
 I fore enjoyed ; it may feeni fomt~ 
 what unneceffary y at this T*ime^ to 
 A 2 publijh 
 
 301253 
 
 CJ3 
 g
 
 ii To the READER. 
 
 publi/h any thing relating to this 
 Difpute. But, m it is prefumed^ 
 that there will Jhortly be another 
 Marriage in the Royal Family r , and 
 as many other Occajions may happen 
 of new Ceremony , in which the fame 
 great Perfons may be concerned, it 
 cannbt be improper to Jhew this Ar^ 
 gument in its full Force, which will 
 inevitably take away all Occafion of 
 Pretence to repine at that Deter- 
 mination which has been fo wifely 
 made, in a Matter never to have been 
 contefled, if it had been truly under- 
 food* 
 
 It is a very great Misfortune to 
 the Public k, that Men, either out of 
 Prejudice or Vanity, fo frequently 
 
 give
 
 To the READER. iii 
 
 give their Opinions upon Subje&s 
 with which they are wholly unac- 
 quainted \ and this Misfortune is of 
 greater Confequence, when it happens 
 to concern the Pretenjions of Nations 
 or of Bodies of Men of this Difiin- 
 Bion. The Heat and Paffton fhewn 
 in private Debates, too often com- 
 municate a fad Influence upon pub- 
 lick Councils, and create Divifions 
 and Animof ties of a very dangerous 
 Nature to the Commonwealth, It 
 was upon this Ground, that one of 
 the Articles of Impeach?nent againfi 
 the great Earl of Strafford was, 
 That he had affirmed Ireland to be a 
 conquered Country ; and the famous 
 Mr. Pymm, a Manager of that 
 Impeachment, obferved upon it. Hat 
 
 no
 
 jv To the READER. 
 
 no Speech could be fuller fraught 
 with Treafon to the Englifli State, 
 fence it tended to create a general 
 DifaffeSlion in that whole People to 
 the common Government. Upon the 
 fame Principle it was, that the Com- 
 mons of England * wifely expelled, 
 and voted to the Tower, Sir Chri- 
 ftopher Pigot, Knight of the Shire 
 for Bucks, one of the moft confi- 
 derable Members of that Houfe, for 
 an Inve&ive againjl the Scotifh Na- 
 
 tion. 
 
 
 If then it has been the Wifdom of 
 the Legifature to endeavour, by Me- 
 thods of the greatefl Severity, even 
 upon its own Members, to ftpprefs 
 
 * Feb. 13, i6e6. 
 
 fuch
 
 To the READER. v 
 
 fuch Opinions, as have a Tendency 
 to create a DifaffeElion in the Coun- 
 tries appendant on our Government, 
 it mufi be thought a meritorious AB^ 
 to attempt by a clearer State of any 
 Difpute, which may occajion a Dis- 
 content of this Kind, to remove the 
 Caufes of it : And as the Circum- 
 flances of Europe, and of this Na- 
 tion in particular ; are fuch as now 
 require, more than perhaps in any 
 former Time, the JlriSlefi Union among 
 ourfelves, a Step which is taken to 
 that deferable End, requires no Apo- 
 
 It remains therefore for us, only 
 to make our Excufes to the Noble 
 Author, that this Copy is publifhed 
 
 without
 
 vi To the READER. 
 
 without his Knowledge or Concurrence, 
 Among fome Tranfcripts of this cu- 
 rious Piece y which were handed about 
 in Manufcript y at the Time of this 
 Difputey one has happened to fall into 
 our Handsy whichy as we acquired 
 without any Condition or ReftriBion y 
 we hope we may be allowed to pub- 
 lifh without Offence, 
 
 ■ 
 
 THE
 
 ■ -■ i * ' ■ ■ 
 
 — ■ ^— — —— — — — — — i ^mm i i 
 
 THE 
 
 QUESTION 
 
 O F TH E 
 
 PRECEDENCY 
 
 O F T H E 
 
 Peers of Ireland ix\England y 
 
 FAIRLY STATED. 
 
 In a Letter ft? an English Lord. 
 
 My Lord, 
 
 THE laft Time I had the Honour 
 of converfing with your Lordfhip, 
 you may remember, that our Dif- 
 courfe was principally turned upon the Dif- 
 pute concerning Precedency between the 
 Englijh and Irijh Peers, and that I promifed 
 
 your Lordfhip to procure for you a Copy of 
 
 B thofe
 
 2 Tie Precedency of the 
 
 thofc Papers which were prefented to his 
 Majefty by the Peers of Ireland, in Vindi- 
 cation of their Rights. Having made your 
 Lordfhip this Promife, I think my felf obliged 
 to perform it, and now acquit myfelf of it, 
 by fending you the following Sheets, which 
 contain all that was delivered to his Majefty , to- 
 gether with fome additional Precedents, which 
 for want of Time could not be then collected. 
 After this, I afTure you, that I would willing- 
 ly fubmit the Contefl to your Decifiort ; 
 tho' your Seat in Parliament here might be 
 generally thought, and would be thought by 
 me, in the Inftance of fome other Perfons, 
 a Reafon againft it. But your Lordfhip's 
 known Candour and Integrity eafily vanquifh 
 all Sufpicions of Partiality. 
 
 I mail trouble your Lordfhip with very little 
 Introduction j you are already well enough 
 acquainted with the Nature of the Difpute. 
 Nor fhall I offer you any Apology for the 
 few Obfervations of my own, upon the Ar- 
 guments ufed againft our Body, fince your 
 Lordfhip defires. to be Matter of the Debate ; 
 and as thefe Obfervations are, in fome mea- 
 fure, neceffary to your being fo. 
 
 1 I mail
 
 Peers ^Ireland. 3 
 
 I fhall therefore proceed directly to give 
 you the Memorial prefented to his Majefty 
 by the Earl of Egmont y upon the 2d of i\fo- 
 vember 1733, in the Name, and on the Be- 
 half of the Peers of Ireland, upon the Occa- 
 fion of the Solemnity of the Marriage of his 
 Serene Highnefs the Prince of Orange with 
 the Princefs Royal. 
 
 "TheMEMORIAL 
 
 " To the King's Moil Excellent Majefty, 
 
 " The humble Memorial of the Peers of 
 " your Majefty 's Kingdom of Ireland, 
 u now in London , 
 
 " Sheweth, 
 " 'THHATthe Peers of your Majefty 's King- 
 
 dom of Ireland are now in a£hlal Pof- 
 <c feflion , by Determinations of King yames L 
 " King Charles I. and King Charles II. of a 
 " Right of Place and Precedence in England 
 " (which has been allowed them, as appears 
 u by the annexed Schedules) ; and in Procef- 
 " fions always took Place of all Englijh Peers 
 " of inferior Quality, and were fupported 
 C£ therein by your Majefty 's Royal Prede- 
 
 <f ceflbrs. 
 
 B 2 "We
 
 4 The Precedency of the 
 
 <c We therefore moft humbly hope, that, 
 u upon this joyful Occafion, when every 
 " faithful Subject of your Majefty is defirous 
 €i to manifeft the Part he takes, in what re- 
 <f gards your Majefty 's Illuftrious Family, 
 " they (hall not be refufed an Opportunity 
 " of mewing their Zeal and Affedtion, as 
 V your Majefty 's Peers of Ireland. 
 
 " Which is humbly fubmitted, &c. 
 
 To this were annexed feveral of the In- 
 ftances that follow. 
 
 The King is the Fountain of all Honour, 
 and as fuch your Majefty 's Predeceffors have 
 ever determined all Matters of Precedency. 
 
 Officiary Earldoms were the nrft Honours 
 known in England', the Perfons invefted with 
 thefe Dignities were Magistrates who govern- 
 ed the Provinces and Counties in England be- 
 fore the Conqueft, and they held for the moft 
 part during the Pleafure of the Prince only. 
 
 William the Conqueror flrft eftablifhed in 
 this Kingdom the Feodal Honours of Earl 
 and Baron ; they were held by Tenure of 
 Lands, and were Hereditary. 
 
 (a) The Barons were diftinguifhed into 
 two ClalTes; the firft were called the Barones 
 
 {a) Preface to DugdaWs Baronage, Vol. I. 
 
 Major e$)
 
 Peers ^/Ireland. 5 
 
 Majores, who had Summons individually to 
 the Parliament by the Title of the principal 
 Seats of their Baronies. The fecond were 
 called the Barones Mmores, who held by 
 Knight's Service immediately of the King ; 
 they had a Right alfo to come to Parliament, 
 by one general Summons from the Sheriffs 
 of the Counties in which they lived. 
 
 King Henry III. difcontinued the Right of 
 the Barones Minores, and fubftituted Titular 
 Barons in their Place, who came to Parlia- 
 ment by virtue of his fpecial Writ only, 
 without regard to Tenure, or Hereditary 
 Claim ; and thus, by his Prerogative, gave 
 Precedency to a new Order of Men above 
 the ancient Barons of the fecond Oafs. Some 
 of the prefent Barons of Efigland ftill hold 
 their Titular Honours by this Appointment 
 of that Prince, and yet maintain their Rank 
 above the Defcendants of the Barones Mi- 
 nores ; many of whom are ftill exlfting m 
 the Male Line at this Day. 
 
 King Edward III. created a new Order of 
 Nobility, fuperior to all the ancient Noble- 
 men of England, placing the Duke above 
 the Earl, which was the highefl Title 
 B 3 known
 
 6 The Precedency of the 
 
 known in England from the Conqueft to 
 
 that Hour. 
 
 Richard II. created a new Order, bearing 
 the Title of Marquis, which he ranked be- 
 tween the Dukes and Earls, depriving the 
 latter a fecond time of their Precedency. 
 
 Henry VI. firft introduced the Dignity of 
 Vifcount, and gave it Place before all Ba- 
 rons. 
 
 (b) The fame Prince ordained by Charter, 
 that Henry Beauchamp Earl of Warwick, 
 fhould be primus Comes Anglice ; and he had 
 Place accordingly before all the Earls of 
 England. 
 
 (c) The fame Earl being created Duke of 
 Warwick, that Prince ordained alfo, that he 
 fhould have Place next to Mowbray Duke of 
 Norfolk, and before the Duke of Bucks. 
 
 (d) Humphry Earl of Buckingham and 
 Stafford, being created Duke, the fame King 
 Henry then ordained, that he fhould be re- 
 puted the firft Duke in England, giving him 
 Precedency over the whole Body of the No- 
 bility. 
 
 (b) Cart, de Annis 21, 22, 23 & 24 Hen. VI. 
 
 (c) Cart. 22 Hen. VI. Pat. 7. Ap. 
 
 (d) Cart, ab Annis 21. ufq; 24 Hen. VI. 
 
 (e) Edmond
 
 Peers o/Ireland. 7 
 
 (e) Edmond of Hadham was, by the faid 
 Prince, created Earl of Richmond, with Pre- 
 cedency of all Marquifes as well as Earls. 
 
 if) J a fP er °* Hatfield, Brother to the faid 
 Edmond, was alfo created Earl of Pembroke, 
 with the fame Precedency, faving that his 
 Brother mould have the Place immediately 
 above him. 
 
 (g) In the 23d of the fame Reign, John 
 Duke of Norfolk had a Patent of Precedency 
 next under the Duke of Exeter. 
 
 (h) King Edward IV. decreed, that Ro- 
 bert Bothell, Prior of St. John ofjerufalem^ 
 mould be reputed the firft Baron of England, 
 and have Place and Precedency above all other 
 Barons. 
 
 (/) Anne Rocheford was, by Henry VIIL 
 created Marchionefs of Pembroke, and had 
 Precedency of all others of the fame Quality 
 (the King's Children alone excepted). 
 
 In the 31ft of Henry VIIL a Statute was 
 paffed to fettle the Precedency of the Great 
 Officers of the Crown. But this arlecls the 
 
 (e) Pat. vel Cart, tf Hen. Vf . 
 
 (f) Pat. Hen. VI. 
 
 (g) Pat. 23 Hen. VI. 
 
 (b) Pat. Edw.IV.2da Pars, m. 15. 
 ($ Pat. 2 4 Hen. VIIL p. i. 
 
 E 4 Prero-
 
 8 The Precedency of the 
 
 Prerogative no further, nor alters the Prece- 
 dency of any Order of Men, otherwife than 
 as to that Point. Which is evident both 
 from the Letter of that Statute, and from 
 the conftant Ufage ever fince $ which is the 
 beft Interpreter of the Law. 
 
 (k) Since that Statute, Sir James Hay, 
 Knight, was, by Letters Patent under the 
 Great Seal of England, impowered to take 
 Place and enjoy Precedency as a Baron of the 
 4th of James I. during his Life, in all Aflem- 
 blies and Meetings wherefoever he mould 
 appear j yet was he no Peer of England or 
 Scotland^ by plain Exception in his Patent. 
 
 (/) In the fame Reign, Sam/an Lennard, 
 who married the Sifter and Heir of Gregory, 
 late Lord Dacre, had Licence under the 
 Great Seal, to take Place of the eldeft Son 
 of the Lord Dacre of the South, and above 
 the eldeft. Sons of all other Barons beneath 
 the faid Lord Dacre. 
 
 (m) Howard Earl of Nottingham, obtained 
 a Grant from the fame Prince, to hold the 
 Place of John Mowbray Earl of Notting- 
 
 (k) Privat. Sigill. 4 Jac. I. 
 (/) Pat. Jac. I. ' 
 
 {m) Great Folio Vellum cover'd Book of Precedents, 
 by Sir Richard St. George. 
 
 ham %
 
 Peers o/Irelan.d. 9 
 
 ham, his maternal Anceftor, to himfelf for 
 Life only, and not to his Wife ; by which 
 Grant he had Precedency of all the Earls of 
 England created after the firft of Richard II. 
 
 (») The like Inftances are frequent in late 
 Times, and many may be produced in every 
 Reign. 
 
 Thefe Inftances are humbly offered to your 
 Majefty, to (hew forth the undoubted Prero- 
 gative of your Majefty to difpofe and fettle 
 all Matters of Precedency, and to manifefl 
 that this Pre-eminence is not dependent on 
 the Nature of any Order of Nobility ; but 
 that it is merely temporary, and at the Difpo- 
 fal of the Crown. 
 
 " Your Majefty's Subjects, the Peers of 
 li Ireland, do therefore prefent this Claim of 
 cC Place and Precedency, with all Humility 
 li and Submiffion to your Majefty's unlimited 
 u Authority in this Matter, begging Leave 
 <c only to lay before your Majefty, that they 
 c< have equal Pretentions to the Pre-emi- 
 " nence contended for with the Peers of 
 <l England, who enjoy it with themfelves, 
 ?' upon no other Ground than the Grace 
 '?* and Favour of your Majefty, and you r 
 
 (») Penes Comitem de Egmont. 
 
 i( Royal
 
 io The Precedency of the 
 
 " Royal Predeceffors. And they truft, 
 <c that they have not, in any fort, deferved 
 u a Difcontinuance of the fame Privileges 
 <£ which have been allowed them, and in 
 u which they have been conftantly and ftea- 
 <c dily maintained by all the Kings of Eng- 
 u land, from the earlieft Notices of Record. 
 
 *' In Juftification of thefe their Preten- 
 u fions, they humbly fubmit the following 
 " Precedents to your Majefty's moil gracious 
 " Confideration." 
 
 In the famous Charter of the Liberties of 
 England, called the Magna Charta, granted 
 by King John, not many Years after the 
 Acquifition of Ireland by the Kings of Eng- 
 land, Henry Archbifhop of Dublin figned 
 immediately after the Archbifhop of Can- 
 terbury, and before all the other Peers of 
 England. 
 
 (<?) In that famous Indenture of Afibcia- 
 tion between 5 Earls and 15 Barons, figned - 
 at London, the 13 th of December, the 3d of 
 Edward II. Richard de Burgo, the Irijh Earl 
 of Uljler, figned in his Place, next after Gil- 
 bert de Clare Earl of Gloucejler, and before 
 all the Englijh Barons. 
 
 (0) Penes Comitem de Egmont. 
 
 0>)ln
 
 Peers ^/Ireland. ii 
 
 (p) In the Mufler of Soldiers, in the 
 Voyage of Normandy, before the Town of 
 Calais, in the 2 ifl of Edward III. the Irijh 
 Earl of Kildare was ranked immediately after 
 Hafiings Earl of Pembroke, and before the 
 Bifhop of Durham, and the Englijh Barons, 
 Stafford, Talbot, &c. 
 
 (if) In the Reign of Richard II. Vere Earl 
 of Oxford^ being created Marquis of Dublin^ 
 had Place of all the Earls of England. 
 
 (r) Henry VI. upon Whitfunday, in the 
 4th Year of his Reign, was dubbed a Knight 
 by the Regent his Uncle, 'John Duke of Bed- 
 ford. Upon which Occafion, Writs being 
 iffued to thofe who were to attend the King, 
 in order to be Knighted with him, among 
 thefe was fames, Son to the Earl of Ormond y 
 who had Place before the Lord Grey of 
 Codenore. 
 
 (s) In the 2 5th of Edward IV. 1475. the 
 Scotch Earl of Dowglas figned before the 
 Lords Scroop, Stanly, and Hajiings, to the 
 Conditions of a Treaty then made with the 
 
 (/>) Lord Stafford's Plea for Precedency before the 
 Lord Talbot. 
 
 (q) Pat-9Ric. II. &2iRic.N. 
 
 (r) Rymer's Feeder. Vol. 10. fol. 356. 
 
 (s) Rjmer's Feeder, Vol 10. fol. 356. 
 
 King
 
 1 2 The Precedency of the 
 
 King of France, concerning the Retreat of 
 the Englijh Army out of that Kingdom. 
 
 (/) Among thofe Knighted at the Corona- 
 tion of Edward V. the Irijh Earl of Ormond 
 had Precedency before the Lords Sutton, Grey 
 of Rut ben, and other Englijh Lords. 
 
 («) In 1484, in the Ratification of the 
 Treaty between King Richard III. and the 
 Crown of Portugal, the Scotch Earl of Douglas 
 figned next to the Englijh Earl of Salop, and 
 before the Lords Audley and Stanley. 
 
 (x) In the 9th of Henry VII. 1497, ^*" 
 mas Earl of Ormond, being fummoned only 
 as an Englijh Baron, did neverthelefs take 
 Place of all the Englijh Barons of older 
 Creation. And of the fame Nature there 
 are many other Inftances. 
 
 ( v) At an Interview between King Henry 
 VIII. and the French King, the Irijh Earl 
 of Kildare took Place of all the Englijh Peers 
 of inferior Quality. 
 
 (z) Among the Knights of the Bath, made 
 at the Coronation of King Edward VI. Fe- 
 
 (t) Hiftory of the Order of the Bath, by John ^Lnjtis % 
 Garter King at Arms. 
 (») Rymer's Foeder. 
 (x) Rolls of Parliament. 
 (y) FUdes's Hiftory of Cardinal Wblfey. 
 (z) Hiftory of the Knights of the Bath, ut fupra. 
 
 bruary
 
 Peers o/Ireland. 13 
 
 bruary the 20th, 1546, the lrijh Earl of 
 Ormond was placed next after the Earl of 
 Oxford, and before the Lords Maltravers, 
 Talbot, Strange, Herbert, Lyjle, Cromwell, 
 Haftings, &c. 
 
 {a) In a Letter from the Council, notify- 
 ing the Death of Queen Elizabeth to the 
 Lord Ewre, and the reft of the Commif- 
 fioners for negotiating the Treaty of Br erne, 
 the lrijh Earls of Kildare and Clanrickard 
 figned immediately after the Earl of Lincoln, 
 and before the Lords Howard, London, Dela- 
 were, &c. 
 
 (b) At the Funeral of Queen Elizabeth, 
 the Marchionefs of Northampton was Chief 
 Mourner, fupported by the Lord Treafurer 
 and the Earl of Nottingham ; her Train was 
 borne by the Countefs of Oxford and the 
 Counters of Northumberland, affifted by the 
 Vice-Chamberlain. There were fixteen 
 Countefles affiftant to the Chief Mourner, 
 among whom were the two lrijh Countefles 
 of Kildare and Clanrickard, 
 
 (a) Kymer's Foedera. 
 
 (h) Manufcript Colle&ion of John Anfiis, Garter King 
 at Arms. 
 
 (0 At
 
 14 *The Precedency of the 
 
 (c) At the famous Jutting held at White- 
 hall, by Henry Prince of Wales, in 1609, 
 the Lord Gordon, Son to the Scotch Marquis 
 of Huntley, was marfhalled, according to his 
 Degree of Quality, immediately after the 
 Earl of EJfex, and before the Englijh Ba- 
 rons, Waldon, Monteagle, Chandois, and 
 Compton. 
 
 (d) Among the Knights of the Bath, 
 elected on the 2d of June, 16 10, George 
 Lord Gordon, Son and Heir to the Scotch 
 Marquis of Huntley, was placed before the 
 Lords Clifford and Fitzwalter, Sons and 
 Heirs of the Englijh Earls of Cumberland and 
 Suffex. The Lords Hay and Ereskine, Sons 
 and Heirs to the Scotch Earls of Athol and 
 Mar, were placed before the Lords Wind/or 
 and Wentworth. Sir Francis Steward, fe- 
 cond Son to the Scotch Earl of Murray, and 
 Sir William Steward, eldeft Son to the Scotch 
 Lord Blantyre, before the eldeft Sons of the 
 Englijh Barons Dudley and Hunfdon, Ger- 
 rard and Stanhope : Sir Edward Bruce, eldeft 
 Son to the Scotch Lord Kinlofs, before Sir 
 
 J {c ) Manufcript, Sir "Richard St. George's brown cover'd 
 Book, fol. 53 — 29. penes Comit. deEgmont. 
 (/) Hiftory of the Knights of the Bath. 
 
 William
 
 Peers ^Ireland. 15 
 
 William Sidney, fecond Son to the Englijh 
 Vifcount Lijle ; and Mervin Touchett, fe- 
 cond Son to the Irijh Earl of Cajllehaven, 
 before Sir Peregrine Bertu, fecond Brother 
 to the Earl of Lindfay. 
 
 (?) At the Funeral of Queen Anne of 
 Denmark, Wife to King James I. the Scotch 
 Marquis of Hamilton had Place immediately 
 after the Marquis of Buckingham, and be- 
 fore the Earl of Oxford j and the Irijh Earls 
 of Clanrickard and Cajllehaven, had Prece- 
 dence in the Proceflion next after the Earl of 
 Devon/hire, and before the Vifcounts, and 
 the reft of the Englijh Nobility. 
 
 (f) The Scotch Countefs of Hume, and 
 the Irijh Countefs of Kildare, had likewife 
 Place after the Countefs of Devon/hire, be- 
 fore the Lady Dawbenny, and all the Englijh 
 Nobility of inferior Rank. 
 
 (g) The Lady Ophalia,Wife to theeldeft 
 Son of the Earl of Kildare, had likewife 
 Place according to her Quality in that Pro- 
 ceflion. 
 
 And the Servants of the Countefs of KiU 
 
 (e) Heralds Office, Funerals of Kings and Princes J. 4. 
 (/) Ibid. 
 U) Ibi* 
 
 dare
 
 1 6 The Precedency of the 
 
 dare did alfo walk in the Procefiion among 
 
 the Servants of the Englijh Peers. 
 
 (h) At the Creation of Charles Prince of 
 Wales, afterwards King Charles I. the 4th 
 of November , the 1 4th of James I. at Wejl- 
 minfier ; 
 
 There was a Conteft raifed concerning the 
 marfhalling the Witnefles or Teftes to the 
 Patent of the Prince of Wales, Sir George 
 Copping, Clerk of the Crown, refufing to 
 fet them down without the Approbation of 
 the Marftials. 
 
 The QuefKon was fubdivided into three : 
 
 I. Whether the Earl of Arundel, being 
 Marfhal for the Day, fhould fign as Marfhal 
 or as an Earl according to his Antiquity. 
 
 II. Whether the Scotch Duke of Lenox, 
 being Earl of Richmond in England y mould 
 fign, with Precedency, as Duke of Lenox, 
 a Foreign Title, or as Earl of Richmond. 
 
 III. Whether the Sons of Earls, who were 
 Barons by Writ or Patent, mould hold their 
 Places as Vifcounts, according to their Birth, 
 or as Barons, according to their Places in 
 Parliament. 
 
 (h) Sir 'Richard St. George's Colle&ion of Patents and 
 Creations, penes Com. de Egmont, fol. 37. dorlb,& 74- 
 
 As
 
 Peers of Irzl an b. ij 
 As to the firft Queftion, it was declar'd, 
 
 that the Earl of Arundel mould have Place 
 
 as Marfhal. 
 
 As to the fecond and third Queftion, it 
 
 was declar'd ; 
 
 I. That the faid Duke of Lenox mould 
 fign with Precedency as a Duke, 7 though by 
 a Foreign Title, and an HonOur merely ti- 
 tular in England. 
 
 II. That the eldeft Sons of Earls, though 
 Barons of Parliament, mould have Prece- 
 dence by the titular Honour of Vifcounts, 
 and not as Barons. Forafmuch as fuch Peers, 
 though they fit and have Precedence in Par- 
 liament according to their Baronies ; yet at 
 large, and at all other Meetings, they ought 
 to have Place according to ; the Dignity of 
 their Birth and Title. 
 
 And accordingly the faid Scotch Duke of 
 Lenox took Place of all the Englijh Earls, 
 and the Scotch Vifcount Fenton of all the 
 Englijh Bifhops and Barons with like Prece- 
 dency to all the reft, according to this De- 
 termination. 
 
 (h) On Friday the 24th of March 1620, 
 
 (b) Herald's Office, m. 3. p. 1619. Funerals of Kings 
 2nd Princes. 
 
 € there
 
 1 8 The Precedency of the 
 
 there was a grand Tournament ; the Pro- 
 cemon began from Denmark Houfe in the 
 Strand : Prince Charles, who was one of the 
 Juftors, went firft, followed according to 
 their feveral Precedencies by the reft of the 
 Combatants ; viz. next to the Prince, the 
 Marquis of Buckingham, Earl of Lincoln and 
 Dorfet j and then the IriJJj Earl of Defmond 
 before the Englifi Lords, Walden, Campion, 
 Scroope and Gerard. 
 
 (/) In an Acl: of Council, made on occa- 
 lion of a Petition of Ralph Brooke, the He- 
 rald, at Whitehall, the 7th of 'December 1622, 
 the Irijh Vifcount Grandifon iign'd imme- 
 diately after the Lord Chamberlain, and be- 
 fore the Englijh Baron Brooke , the Treafurer 
 and Comptroller of the Houfhold, the Se- 
 cretary of State, the Chancellor of the Ex- 
 chequer, and the Mafter of the Rolls. 
 
 (k) In a Commiffion appointed concerning 
 the Afliftance of the Low Countries, and the 
 Security of Ireland, the Irijh Vifcount Gran- 
 difon is ranked before the Lords Carew and 
 Brooke. 
 
 (i) St. George's Book, brown Cover, fol. 98, penes 
 Comit. Egmont. 
 (k) PuL,lickA&s, 1624. 
 
 In
 
 Peers <?/* Ireland. 19 
 
 (/) In a Commiffion concerning the Je- 
 fufits, the Irijh Vifcount Grandifon fign'd 
 before the Bifhop of Winchefler, the Lords 
 Carew, Brooke, &c. 
 
 (m) In another Ecclefiaftical Commiffion, 
 rn 1625, the Scotch Vifcount Falkland, and 
 the Irijh Vifcount Grandifon, were rank- 
 ed before all the Bifhops, and above the 
 Lords Zouche, Carew, Brooke, &c. 
 
 (») In the Powers given by King James I. 
 to certain Lords to fign the Treaty of Mar- 
 riage for his Son Prince Charles with the In- 
 fanta of Spain, the Lords are fet down ac- 
 cording to their refpe&ive Precedencies, and 
 the Irijh Vifcount Grandifon is there placed 
 above all the Englijh Barons. 
 
 (0) At the Funeral of King James I. the 
 Vifcounts Grandifon and Valentia carried the 
 banners of Ireland ; and the Scotch and Irijh 
 Peers preceded, according to their Degrees, 
 next before the refpec~tive Degrees of the 
 Englijh, 
 
 (j>) Among the Knights of the Bath, made 
 
 (/) Publick Adts, 1624. 
 
 (;//) Ibid. 1625. 
 
 (») Ibid, and Wilfon's Inft. of King James. 
 
 (9) In the Herald's Office. 
 
 if) Hiftory of the Knighcs of the Bath, ut fupra. 
 
 C z at
 
 20 The Precedency of the 
 
 at the Coronation of King Charles I. 1625, 
 George Fielding, Vifcount Callan in Ireland-. 
 fecond Son to the Earl of Denbigh, had Pre- 
 cedency in the Creation of the Lord Bazil 
 Fielding, his elder Brother, Son and Heir to 
 the faid Earl, and alfo of the el deft Sons of 
 the Efiglijh Earls of Derby, Salisbury, Mont- 
 gomery, Warwick, Carlijle, Bolingbroke and 
 Wejlmorland. 
 
 (q) At another Tournament upon the gd 
 of March 1629, which, according to the 
 Words of the Book, was had in the moil 
 princely manner that had been feen for many 
 Years before, the Iriflj Earl of Dejmond was 
 one of the Tilters. There were two Mar- 
 quifes, feven Earls, and two Barons j the faid 
 Earl of Dejmond followed immediately after 
 the Earl of Warwick, and before the Lords 
 Walden and Gerard. 
 
 (r) At the Funeral of King Charles II. the 
 14th of February 1684, the Nobility of the 
 three Kingdoms walked in ProcefTion, ac- 
 cording to the Precedency before obferved. 
 
 (s) At the publick Entry of K.William III. 
 thro' London to the Palace of Whitehall, on 
 
 (?) Herald's Office, m. \\ fol. 2 6. 
 (r) Ibid. 
 . U) Ibid. Tikings, m 3. 
 
 Tuefday
 
 Peers ^Ireland, 21 
 
 'J'uefday the 16th of November 1697, the 
 Nobility of England, Scotland and Ireland, 
 were marfhalled according to their refpective 
 Precedencies. 
 
 In the fame Reign they frequently afTerted 
 and maintained their Rights in Proceffions 
 made to St. Pauls, on account of the Suc- 
 ceffes of the Englijh Arms. 
 
 (/) At the Funeral of King William, the 
 Irijh Peers walked as fuch, and took Place 
 of all Englijh Peers of inferior Quality ; 
 among others the Lord Vifcount Windfor, 
 not then a Peer of England^ had Place of 
 all the Englijlo Barons. 
 
 (u) At the Funeral of the late Queen Anne 
 the Irijh Peers walked as fuch ; and the Irijh 
 Earls took Place of the Englifi Vifcounts, 
 Barons, &c. m that Proceffion. The Earl 
 of Arran, being alfo an Englijh Baron, had 
 Place as an Earl, as had alfo the Earl of 
 Bcllamont, and his Lady had Mourning fent 
 to her to walk as a Countefs. 
 
 During the Reign of that Queen, there 
 were repeated Exercifes of this Privilege in 
 
 numerous Proceffions of the fame Nature 
 
 • ■ ■ 
 
 (/). Herald's Office. 
 [u) Ibid. 
 
 with
 
 2 z The Precedency of the 
 
 with thofe before obferved on account of 
 
 the feveral Thankfgiyings for our Victories 
 
 abroad. 
 
 In the laft grand Inftance of publick Ce- 
 remony, viz. that folemn Proceffion from 
 Greenwich to London, upon the firft Arrival 
 of his late Majefty, of Glorious Memory, 
 King George the Firft, the Peers of Ire- 
 land (x) were marfhalled according to their 
 refpective Degrees of Quality, with Prece- 
 dency over all the Englifi Peers of inferior 
 Rank. 
 
 Finally, That as to Precedents of this 
 kind, they are almoft innumerable ; the 
 Charter Rolls in the Tower, from the earlier!: 
 Times ; the Books of the Council ; and the 
 Originals of publick Inftruments of all Sorts, 
 containing Proofs fufficient to fill whole Vo- 
 Jumes, if it were necefTary to collect them. 
 
 " Your Majefty 's Peers of Ireland beg 
 y Leave to obferve farther : " 
 
 That their not walking at the Corona- 
 tion here, cannot be drawn in Argument 
 againft their eftablifhed Right to walk in 
 other Proceflions ; fince the Peers of Eng- 
 
 (x) Earl MarfhaPs printed Order, and the Books cf 
 the Office of Arms. 
 
 land,
 
 Peers ^/Ireland, 23 
 
 land, in that Cafe, walk as Members of the 
 Legiflature of England. 
 
 That the Irijh Peers do not walk, nor ever 
 did walk, as Peers, at the Coronation of their 
 Kings, for this Reafon, that no King is 
 crowned as King of Ireland -, an Act of 
 Parliament having been made in Ireland, in 
 the Reign of King Henry VIII. by which, 
 whoever is crowned King of England ', is de- 
 clared to be, ipfo fadlo, King of Ireland \ 
 without further Ceremony. 
 
 And that before that Act had patted, there 
 never had been any Coronation in that King- 
 dom, the Kings of England being then in- 
 verted with no other Title than that of Lords 
 of Ireland. 
 
 That on all other folemn and publick Oc- 
 cafions, of which any Traces of Remem- 
 brance do yet continue, they have ever been 
 allowed the Precedency contended for. That 
 in the Cafe of Weddings, the Matter cannot 
 be evinced otherwife, than by a Parity of 
 Reafoning ; fince there has been no publick 
 Wedding in the Royal Family, of which any 
 Account doth now remain upon Record, fo 
 far as it has been yet difcovered. 
 
 C 4 Tc
 
 24 3*b e Precedency of tha 
 
 To this muft be added, that in all Acts of 
 the Legiflature, the Peers of Ireland have 
 been, and are named with the Precedency 
 here mentioned. And in all AAs of Parlia- 
 ment, the Englijh Lords are ever ranked be- 
 neath the Irijh of fuperior Quality ; and 
 where an Englijh Lord has a fuperior Title 
 in Ireland, he is always known, ftyled, and 
 ranked by the Title of his Irijh Honour. 
 
 (x) That the Houfe of Commons of Great 
 Britain, notwithftanding the Service of the 
 Irijh Peers in that Houfe, do receive them, 
 when any Affair requires their Prefence, 
 (and they are not Members of that Affembly) 
 with the fame Refpecl that they mew to an 
 Englijh Peer on the like Occafion, permit- 
 ting them Chairs to feat themfelves upon 
 within thenar, and in the Body of the Hqufe j 
 as may be feen in their Journals upon feveral 
 Occafions, particularly in the Cafe of the 
 Earl of Corke, in the Reign of K. James I. 
 
 That in all publick Entries of Ambaffa- 
 dors, the Irijh Peers have preceded accord- 
 ing to their Degree of Quality, taking Place 
 of the inferior Order of the En^li/h. 
 
 (x) Journal of the Houfe of Commons, Jac. I. 
 
 That
 
 Pjeers ©/"Ireland. ge 
 
 That Irijh Peers have ever carried the 
 <Sword of State to and from Chapel, which is 
 not permitted to an Englijh Duke's eldefl 
 Son. 
 
 That they do, and have always, walked 
 before the King to and from Chapel, and 
 have equal Right with the Englijh Peers to 
 go there into the King's Clofet. 
 
 That the Queen never viiits any but 
 PeerefTes, and of thefe none under the De- 
 gree of a Countefs ; yet that the Irijh Coun- 
 tefles have ever been vifited by the Queens 
 of England. 
 
 It does not appear, that there ever was any 
 Difpute upon the Head of Precedency be- 
 tween the Irijh and Englijh Peers for above 
 400 Years, during which Time the former 
 had an uncontroverted and uninterrupted 
 Right to the Privilege here contended for •> 
 till about the latter End of the Reign of 
 Queen Elizabeth, when a Difpute arifing 
 in Ireland concerning Place, between the 
 Lord Audley, fecond Baron of England, and 
 the Barons of Ireland, none of them would 
 yield it to him. Upon which the Lord 
 Audley made Application to the Queen, who 
 told him, " That it was in her Tower to 
 
 " give
 
 s 6 The Precedency of the 
 
 " give him Precedency y but that it was not 
 41 in her Power to deprive others of it :** 
 And foon after created him Earl of Caftle- 
 haven in Ireland. 
 
 (y) The next Difference that happened 
 upon this Subject was in 162 1, when the 
 Prerogative having been exercifed in creating 
 Peers, both Englijh^ Scotch and Irijh y in 
 fuch a manner as to have caufed very great 
 Complaints, both with refpect to the Num- 
 bers made, and the Perfons fo created; and the 
 Englijh Barons imagining, in particular, that 
 they fuffered great Diminution of Honour 
 and Refpect from the many of Englijhmen 
 who had procured Titles in Ireland and 
 Scotland, took the Matter under Confe- 
 deration, and prefented a Petition to King 
 'James I. figned by 33 Barons, which was 
 ^delivered by the Lord Defpenctr. 
 
 (z) In this Petition they only objected to 
 •the Scotch and Jrijb Vifcounts, and took care 
 to diftinguifh between the Peers of Scotland 
 and Ireland y who had Eftates in either King- 
 dom, and levelled their Complaint only againft 
 
 (y) Camden's Anmls. 
 (&) Camden's Annals. 
 
 thofe
 
 Peers o/Ireland. 27 
 thofe who had no Fortunes where they en-, 
 joy'd their Titles. 
 
 (a) Mr. Camden relates, That the King 
 gave no immediate Anfwer to this Petition, 
 relenting it in the higher! Degree ; and be- 
 ing in particular extremely angry with the 
 Lord Defpencer, for prefuming to offer any 
 thing of that Nature to him. But, after 
 three Days, the Barons were ordered to wait 
 upon the King ; a few of them only were 
 admitted, who kifs'd his Hand, and were 
 feverely reprimanded ; and the King faid, 
 <c That he was, and that he would fo approve 
 " himfelf the common Father of all his 
 <c People r 
 
 (b) Upon this Occafion the Heralds were 
 confulted, and Sir Richard St. George p , Qla- 
 rencieux, delivered his Argument in Favour of 
 the Irijh and Scotijh Peers, in the following 
 Words : 
 
 The Queftion between the ViJ counts of Scot- 
 land and Ireland, and the Barons of 
 England, for Place and Precedency at 
 their Ajfembliet and Meetings here in 
 England. 
 
 fa) Ibid. 
 
 {b) Original Book of Ceremonies, by Sir Richard St 
 pcorgei penes Comjt. de Egmortt. 
 
 4 " fThe
 
 $8 The Precedency of the 
 
 " f The fundamental and auntient Degrees 
 <c of Honor are thefe, and are thus ranked j 
 " firfr. Dukes, then MarquirTes, then Earles, 
 c< then Vifcounts, then Barons. As none 
 u but abfolute Princes have Power to give 
 <c thefe Honors ; even fo by their Regall 
 <c Power they are to he diftinguifhed, and 
 '* by no other meanes. 
 
 " f Thefe being thus fettled, cannot be 
 " altered, or fit for Subjects or Parliaments 
 " to queftion (efpecially proceeding from 
 c< one and the fame Sovereign). 
 
 OBJECTION. 
 
 '* ^ Thefe being in fever all Kingdoms , may 
 
 Ci alter the Cafe, and make a material Diffe- 
 
 " rence-y for there are diuers Priuiledges and 
 
 <c Immunities due to the Barons of this 
 
 " Realm, fettled and eftablijked by Able of 
 
 " Parliament, wherein the Fif counts of Scot 7 
 
 " land and Ireland doe not participate, nor 
 
 - c can challenge any Inter eft , as their Per- 
 
 tl Jones are freed from Arrefts, their Triall 
 
 " by their Peers, upon which their Protefta- 
 
 " tion of their Honor is injlead of an Oath. 
 
 " They haue their Action o/'Scandalum Mag- 
 
 % f riatum againft thofe that jhall ufe any de^ 
 
 c< prauing
 
 Peers ^Ireland. i| 
 
 " pr ailing Speeches in Derogation of their 
 tc Honor. The Lawes of the Land therefore 
 " having Jo much Refpedt and tender Confide- 
 " ration unto the Englifh Nobilitie, and none 
 " at all to the other , who are left as common 
 " P erf ones to the Lawe ; the Condition and 
 H ^ualitie of their Degree here in England,' 
 ** cannot fail but receaue a Diminution. 
 
 ANSWER. 
 
 " ^[ If Place and Precedency mould be 
 <£ taken from them, becaufe they are no 
 " Peers of the Realm, by the fame Reafori, 
 C£ Dukes, MarquirTes and Earls of Scotland 
 f and Ireland (hall take no Place here in 
 " England \ before the Barons of England; 
 " which weare very prepofteroufe, and by 
 " Experience is found contrary. 
 
 c< (c) Sonnes and Heires (c Being no Peers; 
 
 11 6f DukeS, MarqiliffeS and pi.Ice undVr Barons: 
 
 " Earls Of England are no the Reafon is all one 
 <-> tor thefe, as ror the 
 
 " Peers of the Realm, and Scotifte and iriflie. 
 " are deprived of thofe Priviledges and Imu- 
 " nities that Barons have ; and yet there 
 pf is no Diminution of their Precedency, and 
 i4 Titles of Honor: For they have Place 
 " above all Barons, notwithstanding they 
 " are no Peers of the Kingdom. 
 
 " f What
 
 jo The Precedency of the 
 
 jy;The Difference " f (d) What Priviledges 
 ^cStaS " the Lawcs of the Land 
 both the Houfes of « may C onferr upon Barons 
 
 Parliament, for con- ' . , r 
 
 ferring of Honor. " of this Kingdom is not in 
 k ihZr 1 ^ <c DHpute, neither is their 
 S'J&SjjniSC " Ha PP inefsmali gnedonthe 
 outhisroyaiconfcnt. " other Parte; but have they 
 <c any Lawes that do give Place to the Ba- 
 u rons of England before the Vifcounts of 
 " Scotland or Ireland ? Or is there prece- 
 " dent Vfe or Cuftome to confirm and ratify 
 " it ? I am fure the Civill Lawe holdeth 
 " this Maxime, That in Paritie of Degrees, 
 M Priority is the Rule to diftinguim them ; 
 " but it was never before this Time heard 
 *' of, that inferiour Titles, or Degrees of 
 u Honour, mould have Place above fuperior, 
 " upon fo weake an Inference : And it is 
 cc ftrange, that a Miftery of this Nature 
 *' mould come within the Compafs of Dif- 
 <c pute or Queftion (efpeciaily being a tranf- 
 <c cendent Power inherent only in the King 
 <c and his Regall Prerogative). 
 
 u ff Is not Honor proceeding alone from 
 " the King, and inherent in the Blood of 
 u him to whom he mall conferr it ? Shall 
 
 " the Diuerfitie of the Kingdome, being un- 
 
 M der
 
 Peers o/Ireland. 3 r 
 
 u der one Soverain, worke fo ft range an 
 '* Effect as is fuggefted ? Is not his Royal 
 a Power as abfokite in the one as in the 
 <l other > Shall the Aire or Diuerfitie of the 
 " Climate fo eclipfe his Dignitie, as he muft 
 4< yealdtofuch a prepofterous Inconvenience, 
 <c fo foon as he treadeth upon that Soil ? It 
 ic is a ftraunge Doctrine never heard or pub* 
 u lifhed before. 
 
 OBJECTION. 
 
 " f But the Thing deftred by the Englifh 
 ** Barons is not meant y that the Scotifh and 
 <c Irifh Vifcounts Jholde lofe the Appellation 
 11 and Titles of Vifcounts here in England, 
 " but retaine them fill : But only for the 
 a Time they be here, they may take their 
 " Places underneath the Barons of England. 
 " For by this means the Honour of the aun- 
 u tient Nobilitie and Baronage of this King- 
 u dom will be maintain d y which hathfori/h- 
 " ed y and bene reputed as a Brazen Wall for 
 <c the Defence of the Realme and Service of 
 <c their Soueraigne, as Bracton, that fa- 
 " moufe Lawyer, hath well ob/erved : Sunt 
 " et alii Potentes fub Rege, qui dicuntur 
 " Barones, hoc eft, Robur Belli. 
 
 AN-
 
 3 2 The Precedency of the 
 
 ANSWER. 
 " f Let it then be indifferently confider- 
 " ed how this may be helped, (and his Ma- 
 " jerry's Prerogative preferved) and the fun- 
 <c damental Titles of Honor not brought out 
 «' of Frame. The Rank and Order of fet- 
 H led Degrees of Honor are thefe y firft a' 
 <£ Duke, then a Marquifs, then an Earle; 
 " then a Vifcount, then a Baron j thefe 
 <f know their Places, and this" Rule guideth 
 " them,' auoideth Confufioh, and prefen/eth 
 <f Love and Frieridfhip. To breake this 
 a Rule, by placing of Barons aboue Vif- 
 (t counts, or fuperior Titles under inferior, 
 " weare to fet the Carte before the Horfe, 
 fC arid to beget fuch a Prefident as to the 
 11 World might feem monftroufe and ridicu- 
 " loufe. Befides, to make this a Worke of 
 " his Majeftie's (for otherwife it cannot be 
 " done) weare too great Boldnefs to require 
 <c it, or to capitulate with him under Pre- 
 (c tence of a Right, and by that meanestake 
 <£ it as a Grieuance. Wherein doth his Ma- 
 <c jcliie wrong them ? Doth he take from 
 " them, beCaufe he giveth toothers ? Gr is 
 <c it not in his Power to give or hold his 
 
 " Hand ?
 
 Pe e rs of Ire l a nd. 33 
 c< Hand ? Why then fhold this be taken as 
 " a Grievance ? But the right Way weare 
 u for all thofe, unto whom this Grieuance 
 cc appertaineth,, to feeke it of his Majeftie in 
 il all Humilitie, that he wold be pleafed to 
 cC hold his Hand j for that is. the right Courfe, 
 £C otherwife their Labour wil be loft, and 
 <c his Majeftie's Difpleafure agrauated, for 
 " dealing in a Bufinefs whqlly inherent in his 
 " Power, and nothing appertaining to them. 
 
 ^ £ f In Parity this hath ever hene the 
 " Rule and Cuftom both of auntient and 
 " moderne Times -, that if any of the De- 
 " grees of Honor, either of Scotland or Ire- 
 " land, mail meet in England, the Puifnie 
 " of any of thefe Degrees of the Nobility 
 " of this Realm, mall take Place above the 
 " auntienteft of thofe of Scotland or Ireland-, 
 " and in like manner, the Englijh meeting 
 u in any other of thofe Kingdoms, mall do 
 " the like; and the Reafon holds as well for 
 ■" the one as for the other, becaufe they are 
 c< no Peers of each others Kingdomes ; but 
 " this holdeth only in Parity, and this Pri- 
 " urledge of the Kingdomes extends no 
 * l farther. 
 
 D « f If
 
 
 34 The Precedency of the 
 
 f If his Majefty had taken from them 
 any of thofe honorable Titles they for- 
 * c merly helde either by La we or Cuftome, 
 "or in any Sorte made a Diminution of 
 " them, then had there been Colour to com- 
 <c plaine j but fo far hath his Majeftie bene 
 " from giving them the leaft Caufe of Dif- 
 <e tafte, as in his royal and loving Difpofi- 
 " tion towards them, he hath multiplyed 
 <e upon them Honore,and honorable Ty ties. 
 €< If they will alleadge, that the Diftribution 
 
 • was not indifferent, let them then know } 
 ** that the Kinge is free in his Guifts, neither 
 " to be taught, {trained, or wrefted to it ; it 
 <f is a Roiall Work of his owne, which he 
 " can doe, and none elfe ; neither can it be 
 " juftly fayd, that he hath not dealt equally 
 " or indifferently ; for it is great Reafon he 
 " have a Freedom in thofe Things which 
 
 * are in his Royal Power. 
 
 
 €t 
 
 
 Ri. St. George, Clarencieux." 
 
 Upon
 
 Peers ^/"Ireland. 35 
 Upon which his Majefty declar'd, 
 
 I. (e) That all Englijh Earls fhould (in Eng- 
 land) take Place of all Scotch and Irijh Peers of 
 that Degree, but that both the latter fhould 
 take Place as laft Earls of England, accord- 
 ing to their Creation ; and that the fame 
 fhould be obferved, in like manner, by all 
 other Degrees of Nobility, either above or 
 below an Earl. 
 
 II. That in Scotland, the Scotch Peers 
 were to take Place firft, according to their 
 Degrees of Nobility, then the Englijh, and 
 then the Irijh. 
 
 III. And likewife the fame in Ireland, 
 where the Irijh were to take Place firft, ac- 
 cording to their Degree of Nobility, then the 
 Englijh, and then the Scotch. 
 
 (f) The Englijh Lords thought it pru- 
 dent not to move any further in this Matter, 
 during the fame Reign j but a few Years 
 after the Acceffion of King Charles I. in 
 1628, they prefented a new Petition to the 
 King, in which they alfo utterly difclajmed 
 
 (0 I. 25. p. $1. In Officio Armorum. 
 (/) Journal of the Houfc of Lords, 1628. 
 
 D 2 ^any
 
 36 The Precedency of the 
 any Intention to attack any other of the Irijk 
 or Scotijh Nobility, excepting fuch only as 
 had no Eftates in thofe Kingdoms. 
 
 (g) His Majefty determined nothing upon 
 it for the prefent j but three Months after, in 
 a Grand Council, in which the Scotch Earls 
 of Kelley and Moreton took Place of the 
 Viicount Dorchejler, and the Irijh Vifcounts 
 Grandifon and Wilmot, of the Bifhops of 
 London and Winchefter, and the Englifi Ba- 
 rons Saville and Newburgh, a folemn Order 
 was made and publifhed, Requiring all Men 
 to demeane them/elves, according to the pre- 
 cedent Forms of RefpeBy to the Nobility of 
 Ireland and Scotland, thereby meriting his 
 Majefiys good Opinion for their difcreet Car- 
 riage in that Behalf , as on the contrary , his 
 Majefly will hold and ejleeem thofe Perfons 
 unworthy of his Favour, that hereafter Jha 11 
 any-ways, either in Words or Actions, raife 
 any Debates or Quarrels for Precedency. 
 Which Order is recorded in the Earl Mar- 
 fhal's Book, I. 25. fol. 61. in the Office of 
 Arms. 
 
 {g) Council Pooksj 4 Car. I. 28 June, 1629, 
 
 The 
 
 . 

 
 PfiERs ^Ireland. 37 
 
 {h) The King alfo confirmed again the 
 Order of Precedency, which his Father 
 King James had fettled, in the manner we 
 have juft mentioned. 
 
 (i) In 1667, a new Attempt Was made to 
 take away the Precedency of the Scotch and 
 Irijh Lords in England. 
 
 Die Jovisy 5°* Decern. 1667. 
 (k) " The Earl of Bollingbroke reported, 
 < c That the Committee of Privileges have 
 u taken into Conlideration the Matter of 
 " Complaint concerning Foreign Nobility ; 
 u and they have perufed former Proceedings 
 " concerning the Bufinefs; and upon ferious 
 " Thoughts thereof, their Lordftiips do con- 
 " ceive the Statute of 31 of Hen. VIII. cap, 
 " 10. to be the Fundamental Rule for Di- 
 u redtion of Precedency, in all other Places 
 i( within the Realm, as concern the Peers of 
 <c England ; and that for thefe Reafons :" 
 
 I. li Becaufe in the faid Statute, there is 
 " no Mention made of any Foreign No- 
 
 {h) Obfervations upon the Laws of Nations, as to Pre- 
 cedency, by Sir George Mackenzie. 
 (/) Tournal of the Houfe of Lords. 
 
 (*) Ibid. 
 
 D 3 " bility, 
 
 o 
 
 01253
 
 3 8 The Precedency of the 
 
 •' bility, but only of the Peers of this Realm 
 
 4 oiEnglandr 
 
 II. " The faid Statute is in Force, not 
 ic only in Meetings in Parliament, but alfo 
 " in the Star-Chamber, and in all other 
 " Afiemblies and Conferences in Council." 
 
 III. " Becaufe, tho' the Civility of Pre- 
 ft cedency hath been in Courtefy permitted 
 11 by the Peers of England, to the Foreign 
 u Nobility, when they come to attend on 
 " his Majefty here, by way of dutiful Re- 
 " pair for a fhort time> yet when they have 
 " Domicilium here, it is not fit it fhould 
 % be granted unto them, left the Courtefy 
 " do become a Cuftom." 
 
 IV. * His Majefty, by his Letters Pa- 
 <c tents, giving Precedency only to fuch 
 u Perfons, fo created, to the Degree of Peers 
 ■ £ in thofe Kingdoms from whence they de- 
 " rive their Titles, it mult needs be looked 
 cc upon as a Deviation from the Law, and 
 " a high Dishonour and Derogation to his 
 " Majefty 's Letters Patents, and the No- 
 Cl bility of this Kingdom, that they mould 
 11 not enjoy thofe Privileges and Pre-eminen- 
 " ees contained in them, and fo highly af- 
 
 U ferted 

 
 Peers o/Ireland. 39 
 
 Cl ferted and grounded on the Law of the 
 « Land." 
 
 V. " More particularly, the Right of Pre- 
 cc cedency doth concern the Peers of this 
 M Houfe, England being the Seat of the 
 u Rnglijb Empire, and without whofe Af- 
 " fent no Laws can be made in this Realm." 
 
 VI. " This Settlement of Precedency will 
 a accord the Quarrels and Difputes which 
 " have, and may happen, in the Execution 
 " of his Majefly's Service upon Commiffions, 
 M and other publick Affairs of this King- 
 « dom." 
 
 " Laftly, This Committee do humbly of- 
 M fer it to the Houfe, that the Lords will 
 <c be pleafed to eftablifli this Aftertion of the 
 " Right of Precedency of the Peers of Eng- 
 €C land before all Foreign Nobility, by fome 
 " folemn Declaration of the Houfe of Peers." 
 
 a After a ferious Debate and Confidera- 
 " tion, this Houfe agreed with the Com- 
 " mittee for Privileges in this Report, Nem. 
 " Con. and referr'd to the fame Committee, 
 <l to draw up a Declaration to the fame 
 ct Purpofe as is mentioned in the Report, 
 " and to offer the fame to this Houfe, and 
 ,c alfo to addrefs his Majefty thereupon." 
 
 D 4 Die
 
 4-0 7/fe Precedency of the 
 
 Die Mercurii, 4°. Die Martii 1667. 
 
 (I) " The Lord Howard, of Charlton, rc- 
 <c ported from the Committee of Privileges, 
 u a Draught of an humble Addrefs to be 
 tC prefented to the King, concerning Foreign 
 "Nobility, according to the Directions of 
 lt this Houfe, which Addrefs was read as 
 " followeth: 
 
 a To the King's Moft Excellent Majefty. 
 
 - 
 
 " The humble Petition and Addrefs of your 
 " Majefty's moil loyal Subje&s, the Peers 
 y of your Kingdom of England, 
 
 u Mod: humbly fheweth, 
 " nr^HAT the Peers of this Realm hav- 
 c c JL ing formerly made their Petition to 
 tc the Crown (as the Fountain of all Honour) 
 <c for Prefervation of their ancient Rights and 
 ' Privileges, they all derive from its Royal 
 " Grace, and fovereign Dignity, which we 
 iC humbly now renew unto your Majefty, 
 V finding what they then complained of daily 
 " increafing upon us for want of timely Re- 
 
 i-'oreign Nobility, Report of. 
 
 li medy,
 
 (4 
 
 Peers ^Ireland. 41 
 
 medy, the Nobility of Scotland and Ire- 
 " land taking Place in this Kingdom, ac- 
 " cording to their Titles, without any Re- 
 H gard to the Precedency due to the Peerage 
 <c of this your Majefty's Realm, to the great 
 " Difparagement and Injury of the Englijh 
 " Nobility, as will appear to your Majefty 
 u by the following Reafons, which we hum- 
 " bly offer." 
 
 I. u That the original Foundation of Pre- 
 " cedency is the Nature of the Truft, and 
 cc the Power joined with it - y both which 
 
 the Peerage derive from the Grace and 
 Royal Dignity of the Crown, by an here- 
 ditary Right, fo great a Share, and of 
 tc fo much Concern, that they ought to 
 " receive no Competition of Precedency 
 " from any others." 
 
 II. " That this Truft and Power is an- 
 u nexed to the Peerage, and the Difference 
 cf of Titles only gives the Precedency in the 
 " fame Body ; and a Peer of England, tho* 
 
 a Baron, is of equal Confideration to a 
 Peer of any Country, tho' the Cuftom of 
 that Country may give them all greater 
 " Titles, which is demonftrable by our 
 
 a Neigh- 
 
 «>£ 
 
 ii 
 
 a 
 
 a
 
 42 The Precedency of the 
 
 *' Neighbours giving no Value to fuch when 
 
 Cc not dignified with the Peerage." 
 
 III. " That the Right is evident by your 
 <c Majefty's Laws, under which we all live 3 
 *' which take no Notice of any fuch Ti- 
 " ties, nor give them the leaft Privilege, 
 c< but are fubjecT: to perfonal Actions, Ar- 
 u refts, &c. as other Commoners. 
 
 IV. " That very many of them have 
 " been, and are chofen, and do ferve in 
 " the Houfe of Commons, and are not al- 
 " lowed either to fit or be covered at any 
 " publick Conferences of both Houfes or 
 •? Committees." 
 
 V. " That the Statute of the Jift of 
 <c King Henry VIII. Chap. 10. doth adjuft 
 «' the Precedence of the Peers, and great 
 " Officers, in all great Councils and Con- 
 * c gregations of Men fo clear, that it leaves 
 " no Room for interpofing of any others, 
 " upon any of thofe Occafions, and it ful- 
 " ly evinceth the Right in all other Places*" 
 
 << 
 
 If your Sacred Majefty fhall confider 
 *' how much it imports to your Crown 
 " and Dignity, to preferve the Peerage 
 " in their full Luflre and Fruition of 
 
 « all
 
 <c 
 
 ic 
 
 PEBRS tf/lRELAND, 43 
 
 " all their Privileges, they being the 
 '* beft, fafeft, and mofl natural De- 
 * fence of Monarchy, againft the po- 
 " pular Diftempers of this laft Age : 
 u We fhall, with great AfTurance, hum- 
 " bly befeech your Majefty, that you 
 will be gracioufly pleafed to eftablifli 
 fome Rule for regulating this Mat- 
 ter in the future, that the Incon- 
 veniencies to your Nobility and Go- 
 " vernment, which may happen there- 
 ct by, may be feafonably thereby pre- 
 a vented and avoided." 
 
 <c And after a ferious Debate thereupon, it 
 " was generally agreed to by the Houfe." 
 
 ct Die Luna, 9 . Die Martii, 1667. 
 
 " The Lord Keeper reported, that, ac- 
 " cording to the Commands of this Houfe, 
 ? he had prefented the Petition and Addrefs 
 *f of the Peers of this Kingdom, concerning 
 " the Foreign Nobility, to his Majefty; and 
 " after he had read the fame, his Majefty's 
 " Anfwex was 3 That it was a Eufmefs of 
 41 great Concernment , and be 'would take it 
 4 * into hit ferious Conjideration." 
 
 " Eat
 
 44 Tie Precedency of the 
 
 ic But nothing farther was done in it, and 
 <{ the Peers of Ireland have been ever fince 
 " maintained in thefe their Rights, by the 
 " Kings of England: 1 
 
 AND now, my Lord, having laid be- 
 fore you fome few Precedents out of an 
 infinite Number which our Records afford 
 as to this Point, and having prefented to you 
 the Proceedings of the Englijh Lords in 
 every Step they have taken iince they firft 
 tegart to controvert our Privilege } it remains 
 for me to fhew your Lordfhip the Fallacy 
 and InfufBciency of thofe Arguments which 
 have been alledged in the Addreffes to the 
 Crown upon this Head $ in doing which, 
 I fhall in Effect anfwer all that is urged 
 againft us upon the prefent Occafion ; and I 
 hope your Lordfhip will pardon the una- 
 voidable Freedom which I am obliged to 
 take in this Examination. I mould be very 
 forry to treat any Proceedings of your Lord- 
 fhip's Houfe without the greateft Decency 
 and Regard ; fuch as are" relative to your 
 legijlative Capacity t I fhall never prefume in 
 a private Capacity to queftion or oppofe j, 
 but fuch as are of a private Nature, as your 
 
 Addreffes
 
 Peers ^Ireland. 45 
 
 AddrefTes and Reafons to the Crown in this 
 Particular muft appear to be, admit a great- 
 er Liberty ; and I may venture to prefume 
 that neither your Lordfhip, nor any other of 
 your Body, will take it as any juft Matter 
 of Offence, that I avail myfelf of any Ex- 
 preflion, or make ufe of any kind of Argu- 
 ment which I may judge advantageous to 
 the Caufe I have undertaken to defend. At 
 the fame time I do affure your Lordfhip, that 
 I mail guard my Pen as well as the Nature 
 of the Queftion can admit ; and I mail take 
 up as little of your Lordfhips Time, and 
 trouble you with as few Words as I poffibly 
 can : Res ipfa ornari negat contenta doceri. 
 I fhall begin with the Attempt of the Eng- 
 lifi Peers in 1667. 
 
 (m) The Author pf the Hiftory of the 
 Duke of Ormond } a Writer in no Manner 
 concerned in the Interefl of Ireland, obferves, 
 that there was a Party then in England, 
 which had a great Malignity againfl the 
 JCingdom of Ireland in general, and a De- 
 sign of exafperating all Orders of Men there- 
 Cm) Carte's Hiftory of the Duke of OmonJj Book 6. 
 Vol.11. 
 
 in.
 
 46 The Precedency of the 
 
 !n. This was the Time when the firft Laws 
 were made to prohibit the Importation oflrijh 
 Cattle, and to confound the Woollen Manu*. 
 facture there : Meafures which begin to be dis- 
 covered now to have been very near fatal to 
 the Commerce of England, by the Increafe 
 of the Price of Provifion and Labour, and by 
 the Eftablifhment of the Woollen Manufac- 
 tures in almoft. every other State of Europe, 
 He obferves, that thofe Attempts were all 
 made out of Wantonnefs, and a Spirit to do- 
 mineer, (as he terms it) and aggravated by per- 
 fonal Pique> and Envy of the Earl of Shaftef- 
 bury, and others of the Cabal, at the Greatnefs 
 of lbme of the Irijh Noblemen, as the Duke 
 of Ormond, the Earl of Anglefea, &c. His 
 Reflections and Account of this Matter may 
 well deferve to be read ; but that Detail would 
 be unneceffary here. It is fufficient to take 
 Notice of the Principle upon which this Con^ 
 teft arofe, and of the many farther Confe- 
 quences that attended on it ; from whence Men 
 may be led to inquire, whether the prefent Dif- 
 pute may not be grounded likewife upon the 
 fame vain Motives, and whether it may not 
 be followed again by the like pernicious 
 Effects. 
 
 But
 
 Peers o/Ireland. 47 
 
 But to come clofer to the Point, we mall 
 particularly confider the Reafons reported by 
 the Earl of Bollingbroke in 1667. The flrft 
 of which was grounded upon a Statute 
 faffed the 31/ of Henry VIII. by which 
 a Settlement of Precedency was made the only 
 one that ever was made by Aft of Parlia- 
 ment. 
 
 The Statute here mentioned can never bear 
 relation to the Point in Queftion, becaufe the 
 Peerage neither of Ireland or Scotland are 
 
 mentioned in it And yet it is notorious, 
 
 that for many Centuries before that Aft was 
 made, the Peerage of Ireland and Scotland 
 enjoyed that Right, for which the former 
 now contend. It is further notorious, that 
 the Peers of Ireland were from the Time 
 of that Aft, to this Period, itill main- 
 tained in the fame Privileges, without fo 
 much as a Angle Difpute upon this Head be- 
 tween the two Nations, except in the Cafe of 
 the Lord Audley before-mentioned j a thing 
 which could not have happened, if there 
 had ever been before that Time the leaft 
 
 Doubt concerning the Interpretation of it 
 
 The very making of that Aft, without any 
 Notice taken of the Pretenfions of the Irijh 
 
 Peer,
 
 48 The Precedency of the 
 
 Peers, is the itrongeft. Proof, that they 
 were then looked upon as inconteflable ; for 
 that was the natural Time to have fettled 
 this Matter, if it had not been thoroughly 
 fixed before. But tho' a new Difcovery 
 mould be made in this Age, that any thing 
 were contained in it, which might now feem 
 to render the Queftion dubious, even in fuch 
 a Circumftance the Peers of Ireland would 
 have an invincible Plea from Prescription, 
 and from the conflant Cuftom from that 
 Period, which is furely the bell: Interpreter 
 of Law. Lajlly, This A& appears evi- 
 dently to be no-way concerned in the general 
 Bufinefs of Precedency, but fingjy relative 
 to the Ranking of the great Officers of State, 
 the Crown having often fince that Act exer- 
 cifed the prerogative of giving Precedency to 
 later Peers over the more antient, as in the 
 Cafe of Howard Earl of Nottingham, in the 
 Reign of James I. and other Inftances, which 
 we have cited before in the Schedule annexed 
 to the Memorial. 
 
 The 2d Reafon that this Statute is in Force 
 in Parliament, in the 'St \a\ '-Chamber ; and in all 
 
 other
 
 Peers ^/"Ireland. 49 
 
 other Ajfemblies and Conferences in Council, 
 is partly true, and partly falfe. 
 
 That it has Force in Parliament is clear, nor 
 can it be difputed by the Peers of Ireland, 
 becaufe they come not thither. That it is in 
 Force alfo in all AfTemblies, &c. is likewife 
 true ; but in both Cafes only in this Senfe, as 
 it relates to the Englifo Peers among them- 
 felves, and among them only with refpecl: to 
 the great Officers of the Crown. That it 
 does not affect the Precedency of the Irijh 
 Peers in the ArTemblies there mentioned, is 
 evident from the Records now remaining of 
 the Star-Chamber, and from the Books of 
 the Council in a Multitude of Inftances. I 
 need only mention one, which occurs among 
 the Papers cited here, where you will find 
 in a Council held upon this very Subject, 28 
 jfune y 4 Car. I. 1629. that the Scotcb 
 Earls of Kelly and Morton took place of the 
 Vifcount Dorchejier, and that the Irijh Vif- 
 counts Grandifon and JViltnot took place alfo 
 before the Bifhops of London and Winchejler, 
 and the EngliJJj Barons Savill and Newburgh. 
 
 As to the 3d Reafon contained in this Re- 
 port, it gives up intirely the Qucftion of 
 
 E antient
 
 jo The Precedency of the 
 
 antient ufage ; for it is acknowledged, That 
 the Civility of Precedency hath been in Cour- 
 tejy permitted by the Peers of England to the 
 Foreign Nobility, when they come to attend on 
 his Majefty here-, and tho they feem to allow 
 this reafonable for a fiort time y yet when they 
 have Domicilium here, they think it not ft it 
 Jhould be granted to them, left the Courtefy do 
 become a Cuftom. 
 
 The Peers of England feem to affume in 
 this Place a very whimfical Authority j That 
 their Civility has been the only Foundation 
 of the Precedency enjoyed by the Iri/h Peer- 
 age. This kind of Infinuation is very inju- 
 rious to the Royal Dignity j for tho 5 they 
 apply to the Crown with a feeming Modefty 
 for an Abolition of that Precedency, it is very 
 evident, that if they be allowed to have created 
 that Precedency themfelves, the Inference is 
 natural enough, that they might take it away 
 themfelves $ and if the Premijes were yielded, 
 the Confequence would be very probably de- 
 duced upon the firft favourable Opportunity. 
 
 Not to make Refle&ions upon the avowed 
 Declenfion of Politenefs in the Englijh Nobi- 
 lity of this Age, from that of their Fore- 
 fathers, furely nothing can be more fan- 
 
 taftical
 
 Peers o/Ireland, 51 
 
 taftical than this Affectation, that the Peers of 
 Ireland are. indebted to them only for the Pre- 
 cedency they enjoy. I could venture to an- 
 fwer for that Body, that if they underftood 
 it in this Light, they would refign it readily 
 enough. But no Record as yet appears, by 
 which they granted to them this great Favour. 
 If there is any, it is more antient than the 
 Magna Chart a of King 'John ; for at that 
 Time, the Peers of Ireland enjoy 'd this Right, 
 as it is evidently proved by the Schedule of 
 Precedents annex cl. 
 
 The Truth of the Cafe is this, that they 
 hold it primarily from the Handing Laws of 
 Honour, which prevail over the whole civi- 
 liz'd World, (a) La Roque, an eminent 
 Writer, in his Treatife of Nobility, tells us, 
 That celui qui eft noble en un lieu, eft noble 
 partout, puifque la Qualite de I Homme neft 
 pas plus indivifible que fa propre fubftance, 
 & qu'il eft de la bienfeance, & de Vutiliti 
 pour lentretein de la Societe des Hommes de 
 reconnoitre chezfoi laNoblefte d'unEtr anger: 
 Which is, rt That a Nobleman in one Place 
 ' ' is a Nobleman in another Place, and it is 
 
 (a) La Roque, Traire de la Noblefie, \*o. Cbap. lxxvi. 
 fol. 230. 
 
 E 2 " agreeable
 
 3 2 The Precedency of the 
 
 " agreeable to general Convenience, and ne- 
 H ceflary for the good Governance of Society, 
 " mutually to allow the Pre-eminence of the 
 " Nobility of Foreign Countries/' 
 
 He fays farther, que la Noblejfe eft une 
 Qualite adherent e a la Perfonne, qui fe porte 
 par tout : Co? turn, non am mum mutant, qui trans 
 mare currunt j £C Nobility is a Quality inhe- 
 tl rent to the Perfon not with {landing any 
 " Change of Place or Country." 
 
 The Peers of England, from the Nature of 
 their Office of hereditary Judges, ought to be 
 well informed in the Laws of Nature and 
 Nations, and in the Civil Law, as well as in 
 that of their own Country. If they con- 
 fuft the Civil Law, they will find, that the 
 Nobility of a Foreign Country are in all 
 Parts of Europe received with fuch a De- 
 gree of RefpecT:, that they are even allowed 
 the Place before the Nobility of their own 
 Rank abroad. Thus a Foreign Baron is treated 
 as a Vifcount, and a Vifcount as an Earl, out 
 of their own refpective Countries. This Rule is 
 conftantly obferved in all Ceremonials, info- 
 much that if any Prince fhould charge an 
 Officer of Arms with a Commiffion to a Fo- 
 reign Court, that Officer, if a Purfuivant, 
 
 will
 
 Peers ^Ireland, 53 
 
 will be received as an Herald ; if an Herald, as 
 a King at Arms. 
 
 The Civil Law is the Rule of all Matters 
 of this Nature in all Nations, where the Law 
 of the particular Land does not oppofe it. 
 And the Law of any particular Land is 
 cither Pqfitive or Prescriptive. As it appears 
 therefore, that the matter of Precedency is 
 not in this Country regulated by any pqfitive 
 Law, mould the prefcriptive Law contended 
 for by the Irijh Peers, be not allowed to have 
 its Force, the Civil Law will intervene, and 
 the Peers of England will unwarily eftablifh 
 a Precedency in favour of the IriJJj Peerage 
 far more injurious to themfelves according 
 to their Eftimation of the Thing. For 
 whereas the Peers of Ireland now claim 
 only a Right of Precedency, before thole of 
 the inferior Orders of Nobility in England, if 
 that Claim mould be denied, they will in- 
 ftantly become intitled by the general Law 
 of Nations to Precedency in England, even 
 above all the Englifi Nobility of their re- 
 fpedlive Degrees. 
 
 It feems fomewhat extraordinary, that the 
 Point of confiant Ufage mould be in this 
 manner given up ; and then in the fame 
 
 E 3 Breath,
 
 54 'The Precedency of the 
 
 Breath, that a Change of that Ufage in both 
 Rations for fo many hundred Years mould 
 be demanded upon fuch Reafons, as feem 
 much more ftrongly to conclude, that this 
 Privilege, if they had it not, mould be yielded 
 to them, than for taking it away, now that 
 they are actually in Pofleflion of it. If this 
 Privilege was antiently permitted, when Eng- 
 land diew no Profit from the Peerage of that 
 Kingdom, the Argument feems of a very 
 ftrange Nature, which urges their Depriva- 
 tion of it, becaufe they have Domicilium 
 here (as they term it) ; that is, becaufe they 
 fpend 200,000 /. per Annum in this King- 
 dom. As to the AfTertion of the Lords, 
 That it is Jit to change this Ufage; Their 
 Lordfhips might think fit perhaps at fome 
 time or other, to engrofs the whole Le- 
 giflative Power to themfelves, but it would 
 certainly be no Reafon for their being 
 fuffered to do it ; and it is a new Doctrine, 
 that they are Judges of what is fit, and 
 that they are to determine for themfelves 
 in a Matter of this kind, which (if Prefcrip- 
 tion be laid afide) is intirely the Bufinefs of 
 Prerogative, and inconteflably vefted in the 
 King. 
 
 In
 
 Peers o/Ireland. 55 
 
 In the 4th Place, it is affirmed, That it 
 would be a Deviation from the Law, and a 
 high Difionour and Derogation to his Ma- 
 jeftys Letters Patents, and the Nobility of 
 this Kingdom, that they Jhould not enjoy thofe 
 Privileges and Pre-eminencies contained in 
 them, and Jo highly attefted and grounded on 
 the Law of the Land* There is no Doubt, 
 but that it would be a Dishonour to the 
 Nobility of England, to be deprived of Pri- 
 vileges and Pre-eminencies derived from the 
 Law of the Land, and his Majeity's Patents. 
 
 But where is the Precedency grounded on 
 the Law of the Land, or any Precedency ex- 
 clufive of the Peers of Ireland, but fuch as 
 is mentioned in the Act of Henry VIII. which 
 how far it reaches, we have fliewn ? And 
 what Pre-eminency orPrecedency is contained 
 in the Patents of the Englifi Peers, which are 
 not equally contained in thofe of the Peers 
 of Ireland alfo ? As to the Law of Prece- 
 dency, it is nothing elfe than antient Cuftom 
 and Prefcription, which, the famous Civilian 
 Puffendorf afiures us (b) t is a fufficient Law 
 to determine all Queftions of this Nature by. 
 
 {b) Puffcndprf, Book viii. chap. 4. 
 
 E4 This
 
 56 The Precedency of the 
 
 This Law is fully on the Side of the Irijh 
 Peers, and the Derogation of that Law can 
 never happen from maintaining the Peers of 
 that Kingdom in their antient Rights : The 
 contrary indeed would not only be a Dero- 
 gation, but a flagrant Violation of it. As to 
 the Honour of his Majefty's Letters Patents, 
 if they are vindicated by the Crown, in per- 
 mitting them ftill to continue to draw the 
 fame Confequences that they have ever done, 
 there can be no Violation of them. It is an 
 old Doctrine of the Papifts, that Faith is not 
 to be obferved with Hereticks; but it is a new 
 one of the Peers of England \ that the Faith, 
 'Credit, and Honour of the Crown, may be 
 freely proftituted with regard to the Irijh Na- 
 tion. It is a Doctrine too that may draw 
 pernicious Confequences hereafter to them- 
 felves, as by it they undermine a Foundation 
 common to the Fabrick of either Houfe of 
 Peers. And it was in the firft Inftance of 
 this Attempt, attended with Ill-conveniences 
 naturally to be expected from it j for the Ba- 
 ronets, tho' a new Order of Men, who had 
 bought their Titles but a few Years before, 
 encouraged by this new Notion ftarted by the 
 Englijh Peers, that Precedency was not a 
 
 Matter
 
 Peers ^Ireland. 57 
 
 Matter to be fettled by any Prefcription, in 
 their Turn made an Attack upon the Englijh 
 Peers themfelves, pretending to take place 
 before the younger Sons of the Englijh Vif- 
 counts and Barons ; and as monftrous as this 
 Pretention appears in the firft View, it was 
 attended with much Trouble to the Englijh 
 Peers, before it was determined in their Fa- 
 vour ; the King being pleafed that they fhould 
 learn by their own Experience what ill Con- 
 veniences arife from the Defire of fuch Inno- 
 vations, in Matters fo long fettled and deter- 
 mined by the Practice of former Ages, (a) Nor 
 was this all ; for they were likewife attacked 
 in the fame manner by the Knights of the 
 Privy Council, who difputed the Precedency 
 of the younger Sons of Englijh Earls (b) ; 
 nay, the eldeft Sons of common Knights 
 pretended to take place alfo before the eldeft 
 Sons of the younger Sons of the Engliflj Barons. 
 Thefe Contefts were carried on with fo much 
 Heat and PafTion on both Sides, that it was 
 fear'd many dangerous Quarrels would have 
 
 (a) Sir Richard St. George\\ T d\\\m cover'd Book, penes 
 Com. Egmont. 
 
 (b) Sir Richard St. Georges Book of Ceremonies, penes 
 jCom. Egmovty fol. 48. 
 
 happen'd
 
 58 The Precedency of the 
 
 happen'd upon it : Infomuch that the King 
 forbid either of the Parties from being prefent 
 for fome time at any publick Ceremony, till 
 the matter was determin'd, which tho' it was 
 at laft, in favour of the Peers, it brought never- 
 thelefs no fmall Mortification, and was no 
 fmall Detriment to their Dignity, to be en- 
 gaged in a Conteft of this kind with Perfons, 
 who had till then been ever confidered fo 
 many Degrees beneath them, and even their 
 moft remote Pojlerity. 
 
 It is afferted in the 5 th Place, That the 
 Right of Precedency doth concern the Peers 
 cf this Houfe, becaufe England is the Seat of 
 the Englifh Empire, and without their Affent 
 no Law can be made in this Realm. 
 
 I fubmit it to your Lordfhip, whether there 
 is any thing conclufive in this Argument ; 
 The Right of Precedency particularly concerns 
 the Englim Peers, becaufe no haw can be 
 made in England without them. Does the 
 Right of Precedency concern none but thofe 
 who are Legiflators in England ? How came 
 the great Officers of the Crown by their Pre- 
 cedency ? How the Order of Baronets ? How 
 that of the Knights ? And fo on to every 
 
 Degree,,
 
 Peers ^Ireland. 59 
 Degree, of which there are many more who 
 have their ftated Rules of Precedency as 
 much confirmed to them, as to the greateft 
 Peers of the Land. Their other Reafon, that 
 England is the Seat of the Eng/i/h Empire, 
 is of the fame kind, and is in Subftance an- 
 fwcred by the fame Argument : But does the 
 Seat of Empire affecl Precedency t Does the 
 King's living in this Part of his Dominions, 
 give the Peers of this Dominion a better 
 Right to any one Privilege in the Nature of 
 the Peerage ? If it does, they hold this Pri- 
 vilege upon a precarious Tenure ; for it is 
 in his Majefty's Breaft to inhabit any Par 1 
 of his Dominions that he (hall fee conveni- 
 ent. That this Circumftance gives them in 
 Confequence a greater Influence, is too vi- 
 fible to be denied ; but that it gives them 
 any Right to that Influence, is a long and 
 difficult Work to prove. The Seat of his 
 Majefty's Government is in or about Lon- 
 don : Is my Lord St. 'John of Batterfea 
 therefore to have Place of other Barons, 
 becaufe the Place he derives his Title from 
 is fituate near the Town ? Or is my Lord of 
 Warwick^ as Baron of Kenfington, to have 
 Precedency of all other Lords, becaufe the 
 
 Court
 
 60 The Precedency of the 
 
 Court doth now inhabit the Seat of his 
 Barony ? 
 
 If by the Seat of Ertglijh Empire be un- 
 derftood, that Ireland is a dependent King- 
 dom, my Lord, this is a Difpute of a Na- 
 ture too high and picquant to both Na- 
 tions for me in a private Capacity to med- 
 dle with ; but altho' it mould be a Truth 
 of the moil inconteftable Nature, it would 
 give no Force to this Pretention, becaufe 
 there muft be fome Conditions in every De- 
 pendence (which is not yet a State of 
 downright Slavery) , and thefe Conditions, 
 when they are not exprefs, are tacit, and 
 then, only to be explained by the conftant 
 Ufage , which Ufage is ftrong in Favour of 
 the Irijh Peers. If by Dependance be under- 
 ftood a Subjection to the Kingdom of England's 
 allowing the Legality of that Subjection, 
 fuch a general State does in no-wife necef- 
 farily import the Subordination of Indivi- 
 duals : The Crown, according to the Max. 
 ims and Principles of the Revolution, de- 
 rives its Power from the People, and is in- 
 ferior tp them in a collective Body : By this 
 Rule therefore, thefe noble Lords may as 
 
 well
 
 Peers ^Ireland- 6 i 
 
 well argue, that they ought to have Prece- 
 dency of the King himfelf. 
 
 But in fine, as to this Particular, howfo- 
 ever this Matter of Superiority and Dignity 
 in the Peerage of either Nation may be de- 
 termined, or whether it be determined at all, 
 it matters not ; the Thing is fufficiently de- 
 cided without it, not only by the Practice of 
 all former Ages, but by the Opinions of 
 the beft, Civilians, and the moft judicious 
 Writers. I mall only trouble your Lordmip 
 with the Senfe of the great Author I have 
 once before cited upon this Subject : (#) He 
 fays, " That tho' it is unavoidable that one 
 «« Office will be held as more honourable 
 " than another, yet it is no Reafon that all 
 " and every particular Perfon, entrufled in the 
 ft more honourable Office, ftitfuld therefore 
 " challenge Precedency from all and every 
 " Perfon in the lefs honourable. It is fuffi- 
 *' cient, that the higheft Perfon in the in- 
 " ferior Office mould give Place to the firfl 
 " in the fuperior, and he may ftill have Pre- 
 c * ference to all who are in Subordination to 
 (i thefirft." Again, he fays exprefly, " That 
 
 fa) PufFendorff, lib. 8. cap. 4. 
 
 " thp
 
 62 The Precedency of the 
 
 " the Dignity of an Office which a Man 
 " bears in his own Commonwealth, gives 
 " him no Right to prefer himfelf to the 
 " Subjecls of a foreign State, who may 
 " perhaps bear Offices which he in his own 
 ff Country demands Precedence upon ; and 
 " laftly, that becaufe Marks of Honour are 
 <c always prefumed to be given as Rewards 
 <l of Eminence and Virtue, therefore the ci- 
 ** vilized Part of the World abroad gene- 
 <c rally pay the fame Degrees of Refpect to 
 ce the Honours of Foreign Nations, that 
 <c are allowed them at Home." 
 
 It is not very eafy to handle the fixth Ar- 
 gument of the Report with Decency, The 
 Perfons here concerned are of fuch Diftin- 
 6tion, that I am tender of giving the harfhefi 
 Epithets to # their Conduct. Whatever his 
 Majefty may think of it, it is certain, that 
 this Argument would be judged of a very 
 bold and haughty Nature by all other Princes 
 in the World. They fay that this Settle- 
 tlement of "Precedency will accord the Quar- 
 rels and Difputes which may happen in the 
 Execution of his Majefiys Service upon Com- 
 ?niJJions, and other puMick Affairs of this 
 Kingdom ; which is in EffecT: to fay, That 
 
 his
 
 Peers ^Ireland. 63 
 
 his Majefty {hall be obliged to make a Change 
 in the Bufmefs of Precedency, and that he 
 muft at their Inftance deprive the Peers of 
 Ireland of their immemorial Right, and that 
 they ivillfubmit to no other Determination of 
 his Majefty. But if Innovations are to be 
 made upon no better Grounds than the Will 
 and Pleafure of a few Peers of England, 
 and if this Language to the Crown mould 
 prove fuccefsful, it would be an Evidence 
 of Weaknefs in our Government, greater 
 than our Hiftory has afforded in the moll 
 troubled Times, and one which would not 
 fail of drawing after it further Demands, 
 perhaps of a more important Kind. It 
 might be worthy Confideration, whether 
 when the Peers of Ireland were removed out 
 of the Way, the Commons of England 
 might not be encountered foon after ? They 
 have Privileges which are thought to be 
 equally Obje&s of Ambition, Jealoufy and 
 Envy to the Englifi Lords, as thofe of the 
 Peers of Ireland are Objects of their Vanity. 
 
 But how this Settlement of Precedency 
 mould anfwer the admirable End of pre- 
 venting Quarrels and Difputes, is a wonder- 
 ful Difcovery : For if a Settlement of Pre- 
 cedency,
 
 64 72* Precedency of the 
 
 cedency, founded on the Law of Nation?, 
 corroborated by the conftant Ufage of 500 
 Years, maintained by many fucceflive Prin- 
 ces, whenever it has been attacked, be not 
 fufficient to reflrain the Peers of England 
 from quarrelling and difputing upon this 
 Point, even when the Kings Bufmefi is con- 
 cerned ; I know not upon what Grounds it 
 is to be expected, that the Peers of Ireland 
 fhould more patiently acquiefce under a new 
 Determination, by which they would be de- 
 prived of Rights fo ancient and authentick. 
 
 The lall Refolution of this Committee 
 contains a very extraordinary Advice to the 
 Houfe, that they would be pleafed to efla- 
 blijh this Ajjertion of the Right of Precedency 
 of the Peers of England before all Foreign 
 Nobility, by fome Declaration of the Houfe of 
 Peers. 
 
 My Lord, I may well call this Advice ex- 
 traordinary, fince it is an Advice to invade, 
 jiot only the Privileges of another Nation, 
 but to attack the Prerogative of the Crown, 
 nay, the very Law of the Land. That the 
 Prerogative of the Crown is invaded by it, 
 is very apparent j for this Prerogative is ac- 
 knowledged amply by the Englijh Lords 
 
 them-
 
 Peers <?/ h e l a il d, 65 
 
 themfelves in their Application to the Crown 
 in the Year 1624, and that the Law of the 
 Land is concerned, is evident in more re- 
 fpects than one : And firft; as the Law of 
 the Land is always concerned in maintain- 
 ing the Prerogative of the Crown ; but that 
 it is fo further, is evident from the Endea- 
 vours of the Englijh Nobility at that Time, 
 to procure an Act of Parliament to fettle 
 the Precedency upon themfelves, which was 
 a ftrong Acknowledgment, not only of the 
 Extent of the Prerogative in this Cafe, but 
 yet more, that even the Prerogative itfelf 
 was infufficient to make fo great an Innova- 
 tion. At length the fame Peers finding that 
 they could not prevail upon the Crown to 
 exert its Prerogative, nor that they could 
 procure a Statute for their Purpofe, which 
 both the Crown and Commons muft be very 
 averfe to on different Reafons, they came now, 
 as you fee in this Report, in Oppofition to 
 both, to endeavour to invert themfelves with 
 this pretended Right by their own Decree. 
 
 In Confequence of this Report a Petition 
 
 and Addrefs was drawn up, as we have ob- 
 
 ferved before, and prefented the 4th of 
 
 March 1667, by the Lord Keeper, to 
 
 F which
 
 66 The Precedency of the 
 
 which were annexed the Reafons recited' 
 above. 
 
 To begin then with the Firft of thefe 
 Reafons ; That the original Foundation of 
 Precedency is the Nature of the Truft, and 
 the Power joined with it, both of which the 
 Peerage derive from the Grace of the Crown 
 by hereditary Right. 
 
 That the Nature of the Truft, that is, the 
 Power of the Peerage, is not the Foundation 
 of Precedency, has been very fufBciently 
 proved already in the Anfwer to the 5th 
 Reafon of the Report. 
 
 But with humble Submiffion, the noble 
 Lords who prefented this Addrefs, were not 
 only deficient in point of Reafoning, but 
 much miftaken in Judgment, when they 
 grounded their Pretenfions upon this Plea. 
 The Confequence muft be very bad for 
 themfelves, if this Maxim were eftabliftied, 
 that the Nature of their Truft, and the Power 
 they were inverted with, was a juft Founda- 
 tion for Precedency. The Houfe of Com- 
 mons may l^y Claim to Precedency upon 
 the Foot of their Truft, and may poflibly 
 carry their Point againft the very Englifh 
 Peers themfelves, if the Importance of Truft, 
 
 or
 
 Peers ^/ I r e 1 a ^ d. 67 
 
 or Weight of Power, mould become the 
 Regulator of this Difpute j nay, according to 
 thefe Pretenfions, the Barber who was the 
 grand Implement of Power to Lewis the 
 Xlth of France , mould have had Precedency 
 of all the Princes of the Blood, and Peers, of 
 that Kingdom. 
 
 With refpect to the Second Reafon of 
 this Addrefs j That a Peer of England, tho 
 a Baron, is of eqiial Confideration to a Peer 
 of any other Country, thd the Cujlom of that 
 Country ?nay give them all greater Titles, 
 which is demonflrable by our Neighbours giv- 
 ing no Value tofuch, when not dignified with 
 Peerage. 
 
 My Lord, I confefs I know not what Ufe 
 the Peers of England propofed to make of 
 this Argument. If it be meant, that they are 
 of equal Confideration at Home, Nobody can 
 doubt, nor will Anybody deny, that the Peers 5 
 of any Country are of equal Confideration 
 to the Peers of another within their own 
 Territories : If it be urtderftood, that they 
 are of equal Confideration abroad, this implies 
 *hat Foreign Nobility is in all Countries of 
 equal Confideration with the Native Nobility , 
 which is an Argument full in favour of the 
 F 2 Preten-
 
 68 The Precedency of the 
 
 Pretentions of the Irijh Peers. If this be 
 not allowed, I cannot fee to what Purpofe 
 this Mention of Foreign Peers is made at 
 all, or how any Comparifon can with any 
 Propriety be drawn between them and others 
 of another Country. In Truth there was a 
 Neceiiity for fome Argument to be produced 
 in Defence of this new and ft range Pre- 
 tention of the Englijh Peers ; and as it often 
 happens in a weak Caufe, that bad Argu- 
 ments are ufed for want of better, they 
 were injudicioufly led to make ufe of this 
 which probably they thought fufficient to 
 amufe, and likely never to be anfwered : 
 But fince they have taken this Notice of the 
 Practice of Foreign Nations, it naturally 
 gives me Opportunity to make this Obferva- 
 tion, that the Dignity of Peerage is not con- 
 fidered abroad as the Foundation of Prece- 
 dency. It will be fufficient to inflance the 
 Practice of France : The Ladies of the an- 
 tient private Families there do not there yield 
 thcPas or Place to the greateft Dutchefles and 
 PeerefTes of that Kingdom, unlefs their Fa-' 
 milies are more an tient, which all who have 
 lived any Time in that Country by daily 
 Obfervation know ; fo that it is the Antiquity 
 
 of
 
 Peers o/* Ireland. 69 
 .of Birth, and no Pretenfions of the Peerage, 
 which determines the Matter of Precedency 
 there. And upon this Footing, I may ven- 
 ture to affirm, that the Peers of Ireland will 
 join JfTue, and to a. Difquifition of this Kind 
 they will readily refer their Claim, if it fhall 
 pleafe his Majefty to permit them fo to do. 
 The Peers in Ireland are for the mod: part 
 free from the Taint of mean Alliances, 
 which the commercial Advantages of other 
 Countries occafion frequently elfewhere, 
 and which in Foreign Nations deilroy No- 
 bility, and all its Train of favourite Confe. 
 quences ; and altho' this Dignity has been 
 proftituted in many Reigns, by being con- 
 ferred upon mean Perfons in both King- 
 doms, and poffibly within a certain Period 
 more, with reipeel to Ireland than Eng- 
 land, there will yet be found a great Num- 
 ber of Families in the IriJJj Peerage, with- 
 out . Difparagement to that of England, 
 equal to thofe of England, or any other 
 Peers in Europe. 
 
 As to the third Argument in the Addrefs, 
 in which it is alTerted, That the Laws of 
 England take no Notice of any fuch 'Titles, 
 nor give them the leaft Privilege, to fpeak 
 
 F 3 with
 
 jo Tfe Precedency of the 
 
 with the greateft Modefty, their Lordmips 
 were abfolutely miflaken in this Fact. The 
 Laws of the Land do take Notice of the 
 Peerage of Ireland ; for when the fame No- 
 bleman happens to be a Peer of both King- 
 doms, and the Irijh Title is fuperior to the 
 other, that Title is conftantly fet down be- 
 fore the other, and is indeed generally the 
 only one by which he is known or ftyled, 
 not only in common Acceptation in all Com- 
 miifions either private or publick, but even 
 in all Avfts of • the Legiflature itfelf j nor 
 does this depend upon the Choice of the 
 Perfon, or Courtefy of the People, fmce this 
 Rule has ever been obferv'd in ajl publick 
 Tranfactions, from the Acquifition of Ire- 
 land to this Hour. Nay, the very Houfe 
 of Commons in Great Britain (notwith- 
 standing the Service of the Peers of Ireland 
 in that JHfoufe as Englijh Commoners) dq 
 receive them, when any Affair requires 
 their Prefence, and they are not Mem- 
 bers of that Houfe, with the fame Re- 
 fpect that' they give to an Englifi Peer 
 on the like Occafion, permitting Chairs to 
 feat themfelves upon within the Bar, and 
 in the !3ody of the Houfe, as may be ken 
 
 i i i >-' * -L* ' . ■■■■ ■ :>%. i £ ■■■< \ ■ .. .■ •*!
 
 Peers o/Ireland. 71 
 
 in their Journals upon feveral Occafions, par- 
 ticularly in the Cafe of the Earl of Corke, 
 in the Reign of King James I. 
 
 But to purfue this Matter further : It is 
 beyond all Difpute, that the Peerage of Ire- 
 land are under Cognizance of the Laws of 
 England^ and by the fame Laws have various 
 Privileges ; for fome of which I refer you to 
 the Englijh Statute of the, 4th of Henry V. 
 Chap. 6. in which there is fome Regulation 
 of them. You may fee, moreover, in Dyers 
 Reports, 15 Eliz. pag. 306. in Comptons 
 Book of the Jurifdiction of Courts, fol. 23. 
 That it is the Opinion of both thefe Lawyers, 
 who were of the greateft Note in their re- 
 fpeclive Times, 'That an Irifh Peer^ by the 
 Laws of this Realm, is not triable here in 
 Capital Cafes. And that able Man Mr. St. 
 fohn (a), Solicitor General in the Time of 
 Charles I. affirms the fame thing, in his Ar- 
 gument before the Englijh Lords themfelves, 
 upon prefenting the Bill of Attainder of the 
 Earl of Strafford from the Commons j in 
 which he makes a remarkable Diftin&ion of 
 privilege in Favour of the Irijib Peerage, 
 which I give you in his own Words : "It 
 
 (a) Rufliworth's Colle&ions. 
 
 F 4 "is
 
 y 2 H'he Precedency of the 
 
 <c is true, fays he, a Scotijh or French No- 
 a bleman is triable here as a common Per-r 
 " fon ; the Law takes no Notice of their 
 f c Nobility, becaufe thofe Countries are not 
 <c govern'd by the Laws of England : But 
 ? c Ireland being gpyern'd by the fame Laws, 
 ' c the Peers there are triable according to the 
 f* Laws of England only per Pares^ by their 
 <c Peers," As for the Law of Heraldry i 
 how far they are taken Notice of by the Of- 
 ficers of Arms in this Kingdom, is evident 
 upon a late Declaration of Mr. Anfiis^ Garter 
 King at Arms, and all the Officers of that 
 pourt of Honour, " That they could not 
 i\ perform their Duty, if they did not call 
 i{ over the Irijh Peers, together with the 
 il Englifi, in the Order of Precedency here 
 • c contended for." And it is alfo manifeft, 
 from the Order of the Earl Mar(hal, con- 
 cerning the Fees of the Irifi Nobility, in 
 1624. where the Reafon for infixing upon 
 thofe Fees, and upon the pafling their Grants 
 under the Great Seal of England^ is parti- 
 cularly given in theie Words, In order to 
 preferve their due Rights of Precedency. But 
 this Point is fo very evident, that I mould he 
 amamed to dwell upon it. 
 
 :;'■'• ' • '*" I
 
 Peers ^"Ireland, 73 
 
 I fhall therefore now come to the 4th Ar- 
 gument of the Addrefs j which is drawn from 
 the Service of the Irifh Peers in the Houfe of 
 Commons here, and from their not fitting, or 
 being covered, at any publick Conference 
 of both Houfe s or Committees. 
 
 That the very Legillature itfelf does in 
 feveral Cafes pay Refpect to the Dignity of 
 the Peerage of that Kingdom, we have al- 
 ready proved fufficiently ; but what can be 
 more abfurd than this kind of Argument ; 
 becaufe they haee not a Right to certain par- 
 ticular Privileges of Peerage, that therefore 
 they can have a Right to no Privilege of 
 Peerage ? Mufl they have all, or none ? Is 
 this the Nature of Precedency ? If it be, why 
 do not the Sons of Peers take their Seats, and 
 vote in Parliament with their Fathers ? for 
 they have a Precedency which is, for fo much, 
 of the fame Kind with that contended for 
 by the Peers of Ireland; and it is well 
 known, that the eldeft Son of a Duke takes 
 Place on all Occaiions (unlefs fpch as are 
 relative to Acts of the Legiflature) of eve- 
 ry Earl ; and every youngeft Son of a Mar- 
 quis, of every Baron in England. At the 
 
 fame time it is not unfit to be obferved 
 
 i- .... . < 
 
 again
 
 74 2lfe Precedency of the 
 
 again in this Place, that an lrijh Peer has 
 ever had a Right to carry the Sword of State 
 to and from Chapel, which the Son of no 
 Peer of England of what Rank foever is ad- 
 mitted to do : lrijh Counteffes are alfo vi- 
 lited by the Queen, a Refpecl which is ne- 
 ver fhewn to any of the Nobility of any 
 of thefe Kingdoms below that Degree of 
 Quality. All which, with many other of 
 their Privileges of a like Nature, can be 
 derived from no other Principle than this 
 Maxim ; That with refpect to the Crown, 
 the Peers of the three Kingdoms are upon 
 an equal Foot, and in the King's Prefence 
 that they mould receive the fame Counte- 
 nance and Deference from him. 
 
 As to the 5th Reafon of this Report, it 
 relates fingly to the Act of Henry VHIth \ 
 which has been fo fully explained already, 
 that there is no need of any further Anfwer 
 to it. 
 
 We are come now to the Clofe of this re- 
 markable Addrefs, where the whole Power 
 of their Reafon is collected, and where poli- 
 tical Confederations are advanced as irrefra- 
 gable Arguments for the Ruin of the Pre- 
 cedency of the lrijh Peers. His Majefty is 
 
 defired
 
 Peers a/'Ijrejland. 75 
 
 Jefired to confider how much it imports his 
 Crown and Dignity^ to preferve the Peerage 
 in its full Lujlre and Fruition of Privileges, 
 the Peers being the beft, fafejl, and mojl na- 
 tural Defence of Monarchy ', againfi the pa- 
 pular Diftempers of the lafl Age. 
 
 My Lord, it is as much the Intereft of the 
 Peers of Ireland, as it can be of the Eng- 
 jiflo, to defire his Majefty to preferve the 
 Peerage in its full Luftre, and Fruition of 
 their privileges : They are indeed the only 
 Noblemen that have at this time Rea- 
 fon to implore this Juftice of the Crown : Jt 
 is their Peerage alone, it is their Privilege, 
 that has been attacked. 
 
 Whatever can be faid of this Neceflity of 
 ^he Luftre, and of the Fruition of the Privi- 
 leges of the Peers \ might be urged againft At- 
 tempts of the Commons, if any fuch mould 
 ever be made 5 but to be urged againft a Body 
 of Men, who are indubitably Peers as much 
 as they themfelves, who have derived their 
 Privileges under the fame Magna Charta, 
 and their Honours from the fame Princes ; 
 their Peerage under the fame great Seal, and 
 in the very fame Terms of Expreilion, can 
 
 carry
 
 7 6 The Precedency of the 
 
 Carry with it, to impartial Men, nothing bijt 
 an Air of great Extravagance. 
 
 To confider this Matter in a true Light, 
 the Peers of England are themfelves con- 
 tending for a Diminution of their Privileges. 
 As the Law of Precedency is now eftablifh- 
 ed by reciprocal Allowance, they have Pre- 
 cedency in Ireland upon the fame Foot that 
 we have it here, according to the Regulation 
 made by King 'James the Firft, as it appears 
 in the Schedule annexed to the Memorial, 
 and as it was again confirmed by King Charles, 
 the Firft. The Moment therefore that 
 the Precedency of the Irijh Peers in England 
 mall be denied them, that of the Engllffi in 
 Ireland mufl fail likewife j and this, though 
 H may not prejudice fo many of them there 
 as may be gratified in Vanity here, will yet 
 affect a confiderable Number of the Englijh 
 Lords, who of late Years particularly have 
 found the Way over to our Employments 
 as alfo thofe who have married their Daugh- 
 ters into that Kingdom ; fo that though they 
 {hould hurt us, they would manifestly hurt 
 themfelves at the fame time, and rather ar- 
 gue, as I laid before, to diminish their own 
 Privileges, than to preferve them. 
 
 As,
 
 Peers ^Ireland. 7? 
 
 As the Precedency of Irtjh Peers can never 
 diminim the Fruition of the Privileges of the 
 Engiijh, hecaufe the Privileges contended 
 for, were never enjoyed by them ; fo neither 
 does it obfcure the Luftre of their Nobility, 
 
 I know but four Particulars, in which the 
 Luftre of the Nobility may be injur 'd by the 
 Irijh Peers : Either by fomething unworthy 
 in their private Characters ; the Addition of 
 their Numbers, as to the Peerage in general ; 
 their want of Fortunes equal to their Digni- 
 ties j or, their want of Birth. The Peerage 
 of no Nation can be obfcured, by a Conjun- 
 ction with another Peerage, irreproachable in 
 every one of thefe Particulars. Let us then, 
 confider the Peerage of Ireland by this Cri- 
 terion : Are they unworthy in their private 
 CharaSer f To fay the Truth for the Ho- 
 riour of both, it may pombly be moft prudent 
 not to make a Difquifition into private Life. 
 In numerous Societies all the Members cannot 
 be as perfect as might be wim'd ; and there- 
 fore the Nobility of both Nations will, I pre- 
 fume, confent mutually to wave this Argu- 
 ment j and the rather, becaufe it is indeed 
 improper to decide this Queftion j for Cha- 
 racter is but perfonal and temporary, depen- 
 dent
 
 j 8 Tie Precedency of the 
 
 dent upon Accident and Education, and vari- 
 able in every Generation ; whereas the Peerage 
 itfelf is perpetual and hereditary. I mall 
 therefore quit this Point, after making this 
 Remark, that the Denial of Privilege to the 
 Irijh Peers, would manifeftly^.end to create 
 this Objection , and even to render it perpetual. 
 For a Diftinction of Privilege and Refpect 
 naturally begets a Species of Pride, which is 
 the greateft, if not the only Incentive to Ho- 
 nour, and to that generous Conduct, by which 
 the Peerage ought to be diftinguim'd j and 
 therefore it is, that by the Confent of all Na- 
 tions and Ages, Mankind have voluntarily 
 attributed to Birth and Titles, and eminent 
 Station, a Degree of Regard and Deference, 
 which it would be abfurd to fuppofe they 
 would have yielded, but from an Expectation 
 and Obfervation of this publick Virtue in 
 general arifing from it. 
 
 Is the Lujlre of the Nobility injured by its 
 Number ; and therefore the Addition of the 
 Nobility in Ireland diminijh that Jjujire by 
 their Prefence here? If it be r the Grown 
 fliould be decently applied to, to reftrain the 
 Exercife of its Prerogative for the future, in 
 creating Peers of either Kingdom. 
 
 is
 
 Peers o/Ireland. 79 
 
 Is it that the Nobility of that Kingdom 
 'want Fortunes to fupport their Dignity? It 
 is a Misfortune to that Kingdom, that this 
 Objection can be fo well anfwerd : For it is 
 a Misfortune to any Country, that its Proper- 
 ty fhould be divided with a great Inequality. 
 This Inequality is notorious there, above the 
 Example of any other Nation. So that not- 
 withstanding the general Poverty and Diftrefs 
 which the Body of the People undergo, and 
 the Difficulties which both the landed and 
 trading Intereft in common fufFer, from 
 the Restraints upon them in almoft every 
 Branch of Commerce -, by which, at a modeft 
 Computation, they do not fee from their 
 Eftates the third Penny of the Profit which 
 they might make of them, under a Govern- 
 ment more equally conducted ; yet many of 
 the Peers are poffefs'd of Fortunes fuited to 
 any Degree of Quality whatever, and many 
 are happy in very conliderable Properties on 
 the Englijh Side. 
 
 Is it that their Birth is unequal to their 
 Dignities? If it were true, it is well known 
 that mod of their Titles have been at all 
 times conferr'd upon them by the Advice 
 and Interpofition of an Englijh Adminiftra- 
 
 tion,
 
 &o 7%e Precedency of the 
 
 tion, who fhould have confidered better the 
 Confequences of fuch Creations ; but we 
 have already faid enough to obviate all Re- 
 proach upon this Head : I (hall therefore 
 only obferve farther, that altho' it be impof- 
 fible, until Intereft and Prejudice, PafTions 
 and human Infirmities, fhall be banifh'd from 
 all Courts, to prevent the Advancement of 
 fome Men, who are not entitled to the 
 Honours they attahi ; yet I may venture 
 to fubmit this Truth to the moft rigid 
 Scrutiny, that the Nobility of Ireland (ex- 
 cepting Four or Five of Irijh Extraction, 
 who themfelves are very eminent) are whol- 
 ly compofed of Families tranfplanted frorh 
 England thither, many of which are either 
 the chief or the younger Branches of the 
 greateft. Houfes of Great Britain^ fuch a's 
 long before their Migration into that King- 
 dom, where they were commonly employed 
 for the Service of the Englijh Crown and 
 Government, had enjoyed the greateft Of- 
 fices of the Englifa and Scotifh States, and 
 had frequent Summons to their Parliaments : 
 Families which had they remained on this 
 Side, had many of them received here, 
 on account of the Merits of their Anceftc^s 
 
 alone,' 
 4
 
 Peers ^Ireland. 8r 
 
 alone, the Honours which they have acquired 
 there-, by their Service to the Commonwealth. 
 Men who, could they have entertained the 
 lea ft Sufpicion, that in modern Times the 
 vulgar Prejudices could have ever rifen to 
 fuch a Point as to cut them off from every 
 valuable Pretenfion in their Mother Coun- 
 try, as they had no Neceffity, fo could 
 they have had no Inclination to have ha- 
 zarded their Lives, and neglected their an- 
 tient Intereft in this Kingdom, in Defence 
 of the Englifi Intereft in that, upon the 
 precarious Profpect of the Advancement of 
 their Fortunes there, in which many have 
 been totally difappointed, and others only 
 rewarded in a Proportion j which, con fide r- 
 ing the horrid Devaluations they have fuf- 
 fered by the Revolutions of former Times, 
 and the partial Restraint of the frefent Age 
 upon their Properties, they might have eafily 
 attained in the fame Courfe of Years withSloth, 
 and Indolence, Security and Peace at Home. 
 
 It may be allow 'd, That the Peers are the 
 moji natural Defence of Monarchy againjl the 
 popular Dijlempers of the Times. But with 
 humble Submiffion, they may not always 
 prove the fafeft j for if it mould ever ap- 
 
 G pear
 
 8 3 The Precedency of the 
 
 pear that they lull after too great Power, or 
 if a future Prince mould lean too much upon 
 them, and the People mould find, that the 
 Publick mould be played between their 
 Hands and thofe of the Crown, it might 
 rather tend to hazard, than to preferve the 
 Monarchy : And it is no Queftion but that 
 the Complaifance of that Houfe, and the 
 Dependence of the Crown upon them in the 
 laft Century, contributed in no fmall De- 
 gree to create thofe popular Diflempers here 
 fpoken of. 
 
 The natural and fafeft Defence of Mo- 
 narchy is the Juftice of the Prince. We 
 know of no Hiftory in which it appears,, 
 that a People, however wanton either in its- 
 Wealth or Privilege, have attempted to in- 
 vade the Rights of their Sovereign, until the 
 Attack had been firfr, made on them. A 
 Prince who lays k down as a fundamental 
 Rule to venture upon no Innovations, forms in 
 fuch a Refolution a Barrier too firm to be 
 trefpaffed on by the moil hardy or ambi- 
 tious of his Subjects; but on the other hand, 
 if this fleady Scheme be unregarded, and if 
 he once excentrate, there is no longer any 
 rix'd Point for him to be directed by, and he 
 
 f" becomes
 
 Peers ^/Ireland, 8$ 
 
 becomes immediately diftracted with the Cla- 
 mours of thofe he injures, and with the 
 farther and infatiable Demands of thofe he 
 fought to favour. 
 
 To bear a little farther upon this Argu- 
 ment j I will acknowledge once more, That 
 the Peers are the natural Defence of Monar- 
 chy : But are not the Peers of Ireland equally 
 concerned in the Defence of Monarchy ? As 
 long as they have Privileges maintained to 
 them, which are dependent on monarchical 
 Government, and which muft fall, if that 
 Government mould alter into a republican 
 Form, fo long will they be a natural De- 
 fence to Monarchy ; But to deprive them 
 of thefe Privileges, is evidently not to 
 ftrengthen Monarchy ; on the contrary, it 
 difmembers the Crown of a great Number 
 of its beft Supports, and in the natural Courfe 
 of Things muft weed out the very Root of 
 that Principle in a whole People, whofe 
 Numbers make up at lean: One fifth of 
 his Majefty's Subjects ; fo that a Counfel of 
 this Kind, however plaufible it may feem at 
 firft View, is in Reality, and in Truth, the 
 moit republican that can be given. 
 
 G 2 I am*
 
 £ 4 Tie Precedency of the 
 
 I am very ready to believe, that the Lords 
 who laid this Scheme, were very far from 
 forefeeing Confequences like thefe, from 
 what they defired of the Grown -, but 
 had they not been too much hurried on by 
 the Vanity of monopolizing, as it were, all 
 Honour to themfelves, they mufl have dis- 
 covered not only this Confequence with 
 regard to that Kingdom, but they mull 
 have forefeen fomewhat in it tending to the 
 fame End even here. The Lords miftake 
 themfelves egregioufly, if they confider them- 
 felves as able to ftand alone between the 
 Prince and the People. They are not the 
 antient Barons of England, who could raife 
 Armies from among their own Dependents, 
 and transfer the Crown as they thought pro- 
 per : Their Number may be as great, and 
 their nominal Privileges may be ftill retained ; 
 but they want the Property, which is the 
 only Bails of real Power -, and wanting this, 
 they have no other Way but that of draw- 
 ing others in to fupport them by the Weight 
 of their Property, which they furnifli to that 
 End, in Confideration of fome inferior De- 
 gree of Privilege, with which they are en- 
 gaged to maintain the fame Intereft. The 
 
 Order
 
 Peers ^"Ireland. 85 
 Grder of Baronets, and all other Ranks of 
 Precedency, are to be confidered as fmaller De- 
 grees of Nobility, created either from the 
 judicious Obferyation of this Truth, or from 
 Neceffity, which enforces often a kind of 
 mechanical Operation of it ; and by thefe 
 kinds of Artifice the Crown has learned to 
 flipply the Defects of the Fortunes of the 
 antient Peerage. But among thefe, ftand in 
 a principal Place the Nobility of Ire/and, 
 who by their Property, and the Privileges of 
 Refpect, as yet remaining to them, afford a 
 yery large Contribution to the Security and 
 Dignity of the Crown, and to that of the 
 whole united Body of the Peerage 5 it 
 therefore feems demon ftrable, either that 
 the Crown mult be obliged to continue them 
 ip. their Privileges from thefe political Con- 
 fiderations, or elfe proceed to augment very 
 largely the £ody of the Englijh Peers, which 
 would be a Remedy that might be thought 
 to carry with it a greater Diminution of the 
 Dignity of that Body than the other. 
 
 My Lord, I could follow this Reflection 
 much farther, and argue much more ftrongly^ 
 both as to the Point of Right, and the Conii- 
 ileration of a political kind. But as I am un r 
 
 G 3 willing
 
 16 The Precedency of the 
 
 willing to move the Paffions even of thofe who 
 are prejudiced againft us, fo I would rather 
 that my Defence of the Rights even of that 
 illuitxious Body, of which I have the Ho- 
 nour to be a Member, fhould be weaker 
 than it might be made, than that any thing 
 fhould drop from my Pen, which might 
 carry with it an Air of Menace, to which 
 the moft modeft Argument of the Incon- 
 venience of national Diffatisfaction would 
 by our Enemies be inftantly converted. J 
 mall therefore fay little of the general Dif- 
 guft which thefe continued Attempts upon 
 Ireland^ both in great and fmall Matters, 
 muft at laft create in that Kingdom, or the 
 Effects that often follow fuch unhappy 
 Caufes. 
 
 I fhall only obferve, that it mutt feem tor 
 all prudent Men more advifeable at this Jun- 
 cture when the Power of the neighbouring 
 Nations is fo much inlarged, and their Jea- 
 losies of our Profperity univerfally rifen to 
 a great and dangerous Degree, rather to take 
 foch Meafures as might unite with a chear- 
 ful Zeal and Affection the Subjects of alf 
 his Majefty's Dominions in one common In- 
 tereit, than thus on all Occafions to diffract 
 
 the
 
 Peers o/Ireland. 8^ 
 
 the Minds of Men in that Kingdom by a 
 Perfeverance in that unhappy Scheme of 
 barbarous Policy, to the long Continuance 
 of which, and to no other Caufe, muft be 
 afcribed an Event not ever parellelled elfe- 
 where in the Hiftory of the whole World, 
 that a People fo great in Numbers, and in a 
 Situation of fuch Importance, mould remain 
 for a Space of above 500 Years under the 
 fame Government, fo generally and totally 
 aliened in Attachment to that Government 
 as they were found to be in the laft Revolu- 
 tion, and which, from a Continuance of the 
 fame Conduct, cannot be fuppofed to have 
 admitted any great Alteration for the better 
 fince that Period. 
 
 But to quit this Confideration, which 
 would carry me farther than would be con- 
 venient in this Place : From this and other 
 Reafons of the laft. Importance, we may 
 certainly expect both the Crown and Peopk 
 of Great Britain on our Side in this Dif- 
 pute. 
 
 The People of Great Britain can never 
 have an Intereft to aggrandize or add to the 
 Piftinction and Diftance now between them 
 and the Body of the Peers. Tho' Diltinclions 
 
 G 4 may
 
 88 The Precedency of the 
 
 may be neceftary to our prefent Form of 
 Government, yet too remarkable Privileges 
 are dangerous to Liberty, and will therefore 
 never be fufFered or encouraged by a Nation 
 fo brave and prudent. 
 
 We may hope of his Majefty, confidering 
 the Services we have done to his Family in 
 particular, confidering our remarkable Advan- 
 ces in his Favour in the moil critical Conjun- 
 cture, at lead a common Protection with 
 the reft of his Subjects ; at leaft, we may pro- 
 mife ourfelves, that in his Reign we (hall 
 not be diverted of thofe Remains of Privi- 
 lege which former Reigns have left us, efpeV 
 daily when they are Privileges which con- 
 cern the Dignity and Honour of the Crown. 
 We may hope this Juftice from his Majefty, 
 the rather, as it was in his Father's Reign that 
 the firft Attack upon the Irijh Peers was made 
 with any Succefs, when he gave his AfTent to 
 a Bill by which their Judicature was declared 
 void. If his prefent Majefty mould fufTer 
 himfelf be prevailed upon by the Clamours 
 or Sophiftry of fome few about him; to pur- 
 fue the Conduct to which he is advifed in 
 this Inftance ; it will fooner or later grieve 
 him, when he comes to reflect from a 
 
 better
 
 Peers o/Ireland. 89 
 
 better Information of the Force of thofe 
 Pretentions of the Irijh Peerage, and 
 from that juft Difpofition which even his 
 worft Enemies acknowledge, that the Work 
 of the Destruction of the Privileges of that 
 Peerage mould be both begun and ended in 
 fo few Years under his Family, which has 
 been a Work unaccomplished for above 500 
 Years, under the worit and moft arbitrary- 
 Princes we ever had. 
 
 We flatter ourfelves, that his Majefty will 
 rather act the Part of Queen Elizabeth, King 
 James I. King Charles I. and King Charles II. 
 in this Instance. 
 
 Queen Elizabeth abfolutely denied it to 
 be in her Power to deprive the Peers of 
 Ireland of their Precedency. And King 
 James I. upon the Attempt that was made 
 in his Reign, received it as an Indignity and 
 Affront offered perfcnally to himfel}\ and 
 treated the Lords concerned in it in a fuitable 
 manner; yet in this Application the Irijh and 
 Scotijh Peers, who had Eftates in their re- 
 fpective Kingdoms, were exempted : His 
 ylnjwer was, Ihat he was the common Father 
 of all his People. 
 
 King
 
 go T/jc Precedency of the 
 
 King Charles I. was applied to in the 
 fame manner : The Peers in that Application 
 acknowledge, that a Precedency hath been 
 allowed to the Nobility of Scotland, accord- 
 ing to their Ranks, which they declare it no- 
 ways their Intention to alter. But they com- 
 plain, that Numbers of Englifimen have lately 
 obtain'd Honours in the Kingdom of Scotland 
 andlreland, and that it is for a Remedy to this 
 Ill-convenience only that they had addrefTed 
 his Majefty. That this is, as it has been pra- 
 ctifed in fome Reigns, a great Ill-convenience, 
 mull: be acknowledged, and is as much deli- 
 red to be feen redrefTed by the Irijh as by 
 the Englijlo Peers. But however, as it was 
 thought impoflible, when the Peerage was 
 once granted, to make a Diftinction between 
 the Members of the fame Body, the King 
 then took the moft prudent Courfe in anfwer- 
 ing as he did, That it is eafier to prevent an 
 Inconvenience, than to redrefs it, being hap- 
 pened: And foon after, by a Declaration 
 in Council, required the Nobility of England 
 to carry themfelves in the fame manner to the 
 Peers of Scotland and Ireland, as they had 
 ever done. 
 
 When
 
 Peers c/Ireland. 91 
 
 When the Peers of England, a 4th time, 
 in 1667, applied themfelves to Charles the 
 Second, he anfwered as you may fee above, 
 ^hat the Biifinefs was of great Concernment ', 
 and he would take it into ferious Confederation. 
 But nothing was done upon it, and from that 
 Day to this, the Peers of Ireland have re- 
 mained in full Enjoyment of thefe Rights. 
 
 My Lord, Is this a* Bufinefs now of lefs 
 Concernment, or deferving lefs ferious Confe- 
 deration, than in the Reign of Charles the 
 Second ? Can our prefent Counfellors, more 
 able than thofe who have gone before them, 
 reconcile the Diftinction to be made between 
 the Members of the fame Body, the Peers of 
 Ireland who are merely Englifhmen, and thofe 
 who are inheritanced in that Kingdom? Or 
 is the next Attempt to involve the latter alfo, 
 whofe Rights have never been before cen- 
 tered ? Should it be required or expected of 
 his prefent Majefty, more patiently to fufTer 
 the Prerogative to be invaded, than any of his 
 Predeceflbrs ? Or are we to think him lefs 
 the common Father of his People ? Is that 
 Prerogative raifed higher than in the Reign 
 of Qncen Elizabeth? Or can the Crown now 
 
 exercife
 
 9 2 ¥he Precedency of the 
 
 exercife a Power, which it difowned evcu 
 in thofe Times ? 
 
 My Lord, I mull even believe, that upon 
 a little Reflection, the very Peers of England 
 themselves will retract this Application ; nay, 
 I dare venture to think they will recede from 
 it, with Concern that they had ever engaged 
 in it at all. For befides the Arguments 
 already given of actual and eventual IU-con- 
 veniencies, that have arifen and may arife 
 from it, there remains another of the •highefl 
 Importance, which it behoves them to consi- 
 der well. To overthrow the Force of Pre- 
 cedent and Cuftom, would in a manner work 
 a DiHolution of the Englifi Peerage. Is it 
 forgotten upon what Grounds all Baronies 
 by Writ now ftand ? What Barony in Fee is 
 a Barony, but by Precedent, Cuftom, and 
 Prefcription ? Who is lb ignorant as not to 
 know, that all the Peers, who hold hereditary 
 Seats in Parliament by virtue of a Summons, or 
 who derive their Honours from the Female 
 Line, have no other Foundation for thefe 
 Honours, than the fame prefcriptiye Law, by 
 which the Peers of Ireland defend this Pri- 
 vilege ? The Writ of Summons is only peri- 
 focal, nor is there contained in it one Syl- 
 lable,
 
 Peers ^/Ireland, 93 
 
 lable,that can be conftrued into theConceffion 
 of hereditary Honour. If then this prefcrip_ 
 tive Law be not allowed, one Species of the 
 Peerage mud for ever vanifh, and a great 
 Number of the moft antient and eminent of 
 the Nobility will be returned again into the 
 plebeian Order. But on the other hand, if 
 Precedent and Prefcription be found of fuch 
 Force, as to be able to create the fullefr, Pri- 
 vileges, and to tranfmit the Peerage itfelf to 
 Pofterity in its utmoft Extent -, Can it be 
 doubted, that Precedent and Prefcription are 
 not fufficient to eftablim a fmgle. Privilege Of 
 a Nature fo much inferior ? Or can Men of 
 Senfe and Honour offer this unjuft Pofition, 
 that what is Law in favour of the one Peer- 
 age, is not Law in favour of the other ? 
 Should this Argument, which I am fure can- 
 not be anfweredy be furmounted from an 
 Opinion, that the Englijh Peers have Autho- 
 rity to maintain their Seats and Privileges, 
 whether juftly or unjuftly founded, I mall 
 not give myfelf the Trouble to difpute upon 
 that Head, or concern myfelf to mew how 
 little Security there may be in fuch a Depen- 
 dence It is fufficient, that no Man either of 
 Honefty or Honour would defire or exercile 
 
 fuch
 
 94 lie Precedency of the 
 
 fuch Authority j and I therefore will not ad- 
 mit a Suppofition fo injurious to their Lord- 
 fhips Honour. It would be a melancholy 
 Confideration, if they who are intrufted with 
 the abfolute Difpofal of the Property of other 
 Men, mould endeavour, after all the Prece- 
 dents here quoted, to grafp at the Privilege 
 of another Peerage. Juftice is, or ought to 
 be, the grand Characteriftick of their Body, 
 and this is as much concerned in Privilege as 
 Property. 
 
 My Lord, Having faid thus much of the 
 Ill-conveniencies which fuch a Meafure mull 
 create with refpedr. to the Englijk Peerage, 
 give me leave to fay a few Words with 
 regard to the Mifchief it would bring upon 
 the Peers of Ireland. 
 
 Rights of this kind are of more Impor- 
 tance than they appear to the Generality of 
 the World to be at the nrft View. Prece- 
 cedency, in itfelf, abftractedly confidered, is 
 below the Notice of any Man of Senfe : But 
 in its Confequences, it is a Matter of great 
 Moment. As fuch, it has been contended 
 for by Princes and crown 'd Heads, even by 
 Force of Arms : As fuch, it hath been in- 
 fixed upon by the greateft Bodies of Men 
 
 with
 
 Peers ^Ireland. 95 
 with the greateft Solemnity. Precedency, 
 like Forms in Parliament, confidered only in 
 itfelf, is ridiculous and vain : But confidered 
 as a Means to the Support of Dignity and 
 Order, is eflential to the very Existence of 
 Authority. Thefe Tributes of Refpect main- 
 tain the Veneration paid to the high Rank of 
 Peerage ; they are the Outworks of its more 
 folid Privileges. The Diminution of them 
 muft inevitably lefifen the Eftimation of the 
 Order, and reduce its Power. In a private 
 Confederation it muft create a Contempt for 
 Individuals, fatal to their perfonal Intereft in 
 the Matter of Preferment and Alliance. 
 From hence it becomes a Bufinefs of Na- 
 tional, as well as Perfonal Concern. The Sue- 
 cefs of this Attempt would inevitably ferve 
 as a Precedent for fome farther Violation of 
 the Privileges of the Irijh Peerage in new 
 Inftances. It would reduce them to the Di- 
 lemma, either of baniihing themfelves from 
 this Kingdom, and from the Prefence of the 
 Prince, (about whom a natural Attendance 
 is their Duty) or of fubmitting themfelves to 
 fuffer fuch Indignities from Perfons far be- 
 neath them, as cannot be borne by Men of 
 great Quality, Birth, and Fortunes. Nay 
 more, it is to be queftioned how far the Lords 
 
 of
 
 96 Tie Precedency of the 
 
 of that Kingdom here, may have it in their 
 Power to fubmit to fuch a Regulation, with- 
 out the previous Direction of their Conduct 
 from the Parliament of Ireland. 
 
 It was refolved by the Peers, upon the 18 th 
 of fune 1678, in the Cafe of the Vifcount 
 Purbeck, That no Fine levied by a Peer of 
 the Realm of his Honour , can bar a Title of 
 Honour, or any Perfon claiming a Title under 
 him that levied fuch a Fine. As it is then 
 an adjudged Cafe, that no Man has Power 
 by any Act, to refign his Peerage ; may it 
 not be well queftioned, whether he has 
 Power to refign any of the Pre-eminencies or 
 Privileges united with it ? And if it mould 
 be fo determined, as it is undoubtedly the 
 Intereft of the Peerage of all Nations that it 
 fhould be, what muft be the Confequence to 
 any fingle Peer of Ireland, who mould take 
 upon him to yield up this Pretenfion in his 
 own Inftance ? It is certain, in Circumflances 
 of fo nice a Nature, and fuch as may concern 
 in their Confequences the Peerage of a whole 
 Kingdom, particular Men are not at Liberty 
 to follow their own private Judgments, In- 
 terefts, or Inclinations. And therefore thofe 
 Difputes which may arife in the Publick, 
 
 upon
 
 Peers ^Ireland, 97 
 
 upon a Decifion of this fort, may happen to 
 be very frequent and dangerous. Nor can 
 thefe Diforders, if they do happen, be 
 afcribed with any Juftice to the Irijh Peers, 
 who may be concerned in them, fince they 
 neither can in point of Honour (however 
 they may difregard their own Privileges) aban- 
 don thofe of their Body, nor in point of Pru- 
 dence venture to incur the general Odium 
 and Contempt of their whole Nation, and 
 the Cenfure of the Houfe of Lords in that 
 Kingdom, which in fuch an Inftance would 
 without Doubt fall with the whole Weight 
 that their utmoft Power could enforce it with. 
 It muft therefore concern any humane Go- 
 vernment, to avoid, if poffible, a Meafure fo 
 much loaded with Inconveniencies and Mif- 
 chief. 
 
 It is a Maxim in Reafoning, that an Argu- 
 ment which proves too much, proves nothing. 
 The Argument againft the Precedency of the 
 Irijh Peers is of this kind. For if thofe Lords 
 have not the Precedency contended for, they 
 have none at all. And having none, the firft 
 Nobleman of that Kingdom muft give Place 
 not only to fome of the loweft Profeflions 
 that are exercifed in this Country, (which, 
 H mean
 
 98 The Precedency of the 
 
 mean as they are, have by the Cuftom of 
 England their fettled Degrees of Precedency) 
 but even be obliged in ftric"t Conclufion to 
 yield it to the moft beggarly Mechanick of 
 Great-Britain. What Honour can be derived 
 to the Nobility of England from hence, that 
 a Nobleman of any Country mould be redu- 
 ced into Circumftances of fuch Contempt, 
 requires a greater Degree of Penetration than 
 I am Mafter of, to difcover. And not to 
 confider the general Alliance between the 
 Peerage of each Kingdom, it mould rather 
 feem that fuch Infults as muft naturally arife 
 from fuch a Regulation, tolerated upon many 
 of the greater!; and moft antient Families 
 (exclulive both of their Honours and Eftates) 
 in thefe Dominions, can tend only to level 
 and confound all manner of Diftindtion what- 
 foever. 
 
 My Lord, if your Lordmip will pardon 
 the Length of the Quotation, I mail conclude 
 with an Inftance not wholly impertinent to 
 this Debate, from one of the nobleft Authors 
 in the World. The Writer is Tacitus , and the 
 Country of which he fpeaks is the Roman 
 Empire, whofe glorious Example all Nations 
 may be proud to follow -, and whofe Senti- 
 ments
 
 Peers ^Ireland. 99 
 
 ments may ferve as the Criterion for all that 
 is of greateft Dignity and Wifdom in human 
 Nature. 
 
 In the Confulate of Vitellius and Vipfanius 
 in the Reign of Claudius, a Queftion was 
 moved in the Senate concerning the Augmen- 
 tation of that Body, by Admiflion of the 
 Nobility of Gallia Comata into the Peerage 
 of that Empire, a Privilege which that Na- 
 tion then defired. Great Contention arofe 
 upon this Demand, and the Prince was much 
 difturbed with the inveterate Confequences of 
 this Difpute. There were not wanting, even 
 in that illuftrious Houfe, Men who were 
 actuated more by popular Prejudice, and nar- 
 row Notions, than by the true Intereft of 
 the Empire, or a generous Judgment. Thefe 
 Senators with Warmth and Paffion alledged, 
 " That Italy was not yet fallen to fo low a 
 " State, as that fhe was not able to fupply 
 " her own Senate out of her own Members : 
 " That in antient Times, Times by the 
 <c Cuftoms and Manners of which, theRoman 
 c£ Empire had rifen to that confummate 
 u Glory, and from the Example of which 
 " it would be happy for them never to de 
 " cline, the Roman Subjects were judged 
 H 2 " furlicient
 
 ibo The Precedency of the 
 
 c< fufficient for the Roman Senate. Was it 
 <c not enough, that this Dignity had been 
 " already proflituted (o far, as to admit the 
 " Venetian and Infubrian Nations into that 
 " Community of Privilege, unlefs they were 
 " overborne and fwallowed up in the Multi- 
 cc tudes of a Foreign Nobility, nowpropofed 
 <c to be introduced among them ? Of what 
 " Value would that Dignity hereafter be to 
 <c the Roman Senators ? Or what Preferments 
 <c could the old Nobility of Rome expecl 
 <{ hereafter? What ProfpecT: for them to 
 " reilore the Splendor of their Families, de- 
 cay 'd by their Antiquity, when all the great 
 Employments of the State mould come to 
 be conferr'd on a Foreign Nobility, againft 
 u the Influence of whofe Eflates, and greater 
 u Fortunes, they would be unable to contend? 
 " A foreign Nobility, whofe Anceftors, even 
 " in late Times,had been theLeaders of Armies 
 " flefh'd in the Slaughter of the Roman Citi- 
 €i zens, and in more antient Story were 
 " recorded to have feiz'd by Violence the 
 " Habitations of their Forefathers, viola- 
 c< ted their Religion, and overthrown the 
 " Altars of their Gods ! That they might 
 <{ be indulg'd, perhaps, to bear the Name of 
 
 " Romans^ 
 
 cC 
 
 ii
 
 Peers of Ireland, ioi 
 " Romans, but that they ought never to be 
 " allowed the Rank of Roman Senators, 
 <c or the Enjoyment of the great Offices of 
 " State." 
 
 But the Emperor, having founded his own 
 
 Opinion upon the moft folid Reafon, was 
 
 fleady to it, and having fummon'd the Senate, 
 
 condefcended to bear a part in this Debate 
 
 himfelf. His Speech was to this Effecl: : 
 
 Majores mei [quorum antiquijjimus Claujus ori- 
 
 gine Sabindftmul in civitatem Romanam & in 
 
 familias Patriciorum adfcitus eft) hortantur 
 
 uti paribus conftliis Rempublicam capejfam, 
 
 transferendo hue quod ufquam egregium fue- 
 
 rit. Neque entm ignoro c JuliosAlbd i Corunca- 
 
 nios Camerio, Porcios Tufculo ; & ne Vetera 
 
 fcrutemur, Etrurid Lucanidque & omni Italia 
 
 infenatum accitos. Poftremb tpfam ad Alpes 
 
 promotam, £? non modb Jinguli viritim, fed 
 
 terra gentefque in nomen noftrum coalefcerunt. 
 
 Tunc folida domi quies 3 et adverfus externa 
 
 Jioruimus, cum Tranfpadani in civitatem re~ 
 
 cepti, cumjpecie deduct arum per orbem terra 
 
 legionum, additis provincialium validiftimis y 
 
 fejfo imperio fubventum eft. Num pcenitet 
 
 Balbos ex Hijpanid, nee minius inftgnes 
 
 <viros e Gallia Narbonenft tranftvijfe ? Ma~. 
 
 H 3 nent
 
 102 The Precedency of the 
 
 nent pofieri eorum, nee amore in banc pa- 
 triam nobis concedunt. Quid aliud exitio 
 Lacedamoniis £? Athenienjibus fuit > quam- 
 quam armis pollerent, niji quod vicJos pro 
 alienigenis arcebant ? At conditor nojier Ro- 
 mulus tantum fapientia valuit, ut plerofque 
 populos eodem die hoftes, dein cives habuerit. 
 Advence in nos regnaverunt. Libertinorum 
 Jiliis magifiratus mandari, non y ut plerique 
 falluntur, repens y fed priori populo faclitatum 
 eft. At cum Senonibus pugnavimus y fcilicet 
 Folfci & Mqui nunquam adverfam nobis aciem 
 jlruxere ? Capti a Gallisfumus,fed & Tufa's 
 objides dedimus, & Samnitium jugumfubivi- 
 tnus. Attamenji cunfla bella recenfeas, nul- 
 lum breviore fpatio quam adverfus G alios con- 
 fecJum, continua inde acjidapax. Jam mo- 
 ribus, artibus, affinitatibus noftris mixti, 
 aurum & opes fuas inferant potius, quam 
 feparati habeant. Omnia, patres confer ipti, 
 qua nunc vetujlijjima creduntur, novafuere. 
 Plebeii magifiratus poft Patricios y Latini pojl 
 Plebeios, cater arum Italia gentium poft La- 
 tinos, hiveterafcit hoc quoque : & quod 
 hodie exempli s tuemur y inter, exempla erit. 
 " Claufus my own Anceftor was of Foreign 
 ,£ Extra&ion, by Birth a Sabine, admitted 
 
 " in
 
 Peers ^Ireland. 103 
 
 " in one Day a Citizen and Senator of Rome. 
 " Thislnftance in my own Family, inftruds 
 " me in the juft Method of conducting the 
 u publick Intereft to Advantage, and teaches 
 <f me to reject no Man of fignal Merit, in 
 k< whatfoever Country he may happen to be 
 <c born . The Julii, Conine anii and the Porcii 
 " fprung from Alba, from Camerium and 
 <c from Tufculum, Tufcany. Lucania, and the 
 <c reft of Italy 1 have been all admitted to the 
 " Senate in the latter Ages of the Common- 
 " wealth. The Empire thus extended to 
 <c the very Alps, proceeded no longer in this 
 " flow Degree ; me united to herfelf not 
 <c fingle Men alone, but at once whole Re- 
 il gions of a vaft Extent, and mighty Na- 
 " tions. From this Time forward we en- 
 <€ joy'd a lading Peace at home, and became 
 u the Terror of the World abroad. We 
 <c flatter'd ourfelves, that our Happinefs de- 
 ic pended on our mighty Armies ; but in 
 " Truth our exhaufted State derived its Se- 
 tC curity from this prudent Coalition of the 
 " provincial Power, with the Remnant of 
 u our own. What Reafon have we to re- 
 " pent, that our Forefathers called to the Se- 
 u natorial Dignity the Family of the Balbi, 
 H 4 cc who
 
 104 'The Precedency of the 
 
 u who are deduced from Spain, or the reft 
 ,( of thofe great Houfes which have been 
 tl acquired to us from the Nar bonne Gaul? 
 " Their Pofterity ftill remain an Honour to 
 rt the Senate, nor are they found, in their 
 " Attachment to the Empire, inferior to the 
 " worthier! Roman of us all. The potent 
 " Republicks both of Lacedamon and of 
 " Athens , great as they were in Arms, fell 
 " by this narrow Principle, this favage Policy, 
 li of arbitrary Rule over their dependent Pro- 
 " vinces. Romulus, the wife Founder of our 
 " Empire, purfued a different Courfe. By 
 u his Addrefs, they who were one Day Enemies 
 M of Rome, the next were Citizens of Rome, 
 " and faithful Citizens. Whence this Jea- 
 <c loufy of communicating to Foreign Fami- 
 u milies, the Senatorial Honours, when 
 <{ a Foreign Extraction has never been 
 " efteemed a Bar to the fupreme Ad- 
 <c miniftration of the fovereign Power ? 
 " It is not the Practice only of thefe 
 el modern Times, but of all Antiquity, 
 u to confer the firft Employments of the 
 •* State on thofe, whofe Anceftors were not 
 " fo much as free of Rome, when recom- 
 a mended by their Merits to thofe Employ- 
 
 " ments.
 
 Peers o/Ireland. 105 
 
 " ments. If the antient Enmity of this 
 <c People mould be offer'd as an Argument 
 " againft the Conceffion of this Privilege, 
 " How often have we fought with the 
 " Vofci, JEqui, and Senones, who have long 
 u fince effaced this Obftacle of Union with 
 cl us ? We confefs that we have often fuf- 
 a fer'd from the Gauls the worft Event of* 
 " War j but we have likewife often fufrer'd 
 " from the Tufcans, and the Samnites r the 
 " mod ignominious Defeats ; yet are they 
 now one common People with us. If we 
 reflect upon the Courfe of our Wars with 
 this Nation, we fhall find none brought 
 " to happier Conclufion, than that which 
 " we have had with them. A faithful and a 
 " permanent Peace has thence enfued ; their 
 " Manners and their Cufloms, their Arts 
 <c and Manufactures, are now become the 
 tc fame with ours ; they are bound to us by 
 u Ties of Blood, and mutual Alliances. What 
 *' Madnefs would it be to force them, by 
 " our unequal Government, to enjoy their 
 " Fortunes, and to fpend their Treafures in 
 u their own remoter Provinces ? How much 
 tl more prudent to invite them, by a mild 
 < c and equal Treatment, to draw hither their 
 
 " Wealth, 
 
 CC 
 
 tc
 
 106 The Precedency of y &c. 
 
 " Wealth, and to difFufe their Property 
 " among us ? Thofe Regulations, which ap- 
 a pear to us moil antient, have had a Be- 
 " ginning, and once were likewife new. 
 '.? The Magiftracy was at firft committed 
 " only to Patrician Families ; the Plebeian 
 u were admitted after j the Latin Nation 
 u was then united to us, and they were alfo 
 " entrufted with them. The other Italian 
 " States were laft permitted to be Par- 
 <c takers in them, and already the Me- 
 <£ mory is almofl effaced, that they have 
 " ever been a different People. In like man- 
 " ner will this Meafure, which we are now 
 c< obliged to defend by the Credit of former 
 «■ Precedents, become itfelf a Precedent to 
 cC future Ages." 
 
 The Roman Senate obey'd the Voice of 
 Reafon : The Gauls obtain'd the Privi- 
 lege they fought. 
 
 My Lord, 
 
 I am, &c t
 
 POSTSCRIPT. 
 
 SINCE the foregoing were collect- 
 ed there have been found the fol- 
 lowing Precedents, with refpect to Mar- 
 riages and Chriftenings in the Royal Family, 
 which had efcaped all former Inquiries, and 
 which clear up this Conteft in fuch a man- 
 ner, that I think it impoffible any farther 
 Difpute can ever be made upon this Sub_ 
 jedt. 
 
 • 
 
 In 1502, in the Reign of Henry VII. on 
 St. Paul's Day, in January, at the King's 
 Manor-Houfe of Richmond, at the Marriage 
 of James King of Scots, by Proxy, to Mar- 
 garet eldeft Daughter of our Sovereign Lord 
 the King ; 
 
 The King fent for the Subftance of the 
 Lords both Spiritual and Temporal, that were 
 near London, to be prefent. 
 
 The
 
 108 POSTSCRIPT. 
 
 The Irijh Earl of Ormond had place next 
 after the Duke of Buckingham, the Marquis 
 of Dorfety the Earls of Arundel, Northum- 
 berland, Derby High Conftable of England, 
 Surrey HighTreafurer of England, and EJfex, 
 before the Englijh Lord Maltravers, Strange, 
 Howard, Dawbeney the King's Chamberlain, 
 Broke Steward of the Houfhold, Bergavenny, 
 Montjoy, Dacres of the North, &c. • 
 
 Note, This is in a Book in the Herald's- 
 
 Office wrote by Somerfet Herald, who 
 
 attended by Order of the King -, it is 
 
 likewife in a Book marked W. K. fol. 
 
 144. in that Office. 
 
 In all other Marriage Ceremonies, that are 
 
 recorded, the Names of the Lords are not fet 
 
 down. 
 
 Only in that of the Palfgrave, upon Shrove- 
 Tuefday 161 2, which is mention'd in Sand- 
 ford's and Stows Annals, it is obferved, That 
 the Lady Elizabeth was led back from 
 Church by married Lords, viz. the Scotch 
 Duke of Lenox, not then an Englijh Lord, 
 and the Earl of Nottingham Lord Admi- 
 ral. 
 
 And
 
 POSTSCRIPT. 109 
 
 (a) And in that of the Princefs of 'Orange, 
 in May 1641, it is remembred, that the 
 King, with the Earl of Arundel Lord Steward 
 bearing the Sword, the Earl of Lindfey 
 Lord High Chamberlain, the Earl of Hol- 
 land^ the Scotch Duke of Lenox, and Scotch 
 Marquifes of Hamilton and Huntley, having 
 place of the Lord Goring , and Mr. Secretary, 
 came upon the Stage j and in general, that 
 the Seats ex parte Cantoris were referved for 
 the reft of the Nobility. 
 
 (b) As to Chriftenings, at that of King 
 Edward VI. the Lord Butler was prefent in 
 his Place at that Ceremony. 
 
 (c) In that of Prince Charles, afterwards 
 King Charles II. on the 26th of June 1630. 
 the Vifcount Falkland had place imme- 
 diately after the Vifcounts Wentworth and 
 Dorchejler, and before the Englijh Barons. 
 And fome Copies have it, that the Irijh 
 Earl of Thomond was likewife prefent in his 
 Place at that Ceremony. 
 
 So that it may be affirmed pofitively, That 
 there is no Inflance upon Record of publick 
 
 (a) MSS. Colled, penes Joban. Anfis. 
 (*) Ibid. 
 (c) Ibid. 
 
 Ceremony
 
 no POSTSCRIPT. 
 
 Ceremony of any Nature, except in theBufinefs 
 of Coronations, (of which we have fully ex- 
 plained the Diftinction in the 23d Page of 
 this Work) wherein the Rights of the Irijb 
 Peers have been denied them. 
 
 FINIS. 
 
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