nia UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT LOS ANGELES Tth Congress, ) SENATE. ( Document 2d Session. \ ■ , "^ { No. 36.- NEW STATEHOOD BILL. HEARINGS BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE TERRITORIES ON HOUSE BILL 1254:], TO ENABLE THE PEOPLE OF OKLAHOMA. ARIZONA, AND NEW MEXICO TO FORM CONSTITUTIONS AND STATE GOVERN.MENTS AND BE ADMITTED tNTO THE UNION ON AN EQUAL FOOTING WITH THE ORIGINAL STATES. December 10, 1902. — Submitted by Mr. Beveiidge and ordered to be printed. WASHINGTON: GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE. 1902. TERRITORY OF NEW MEXICO. Pursuant to Senate resolution No. 282, adopted June 27, 1002. a subcommittee of the Committee on Territories of the United States Senate assembled at Chicago on November 10, 1902, and proceeded to New Mexico Territory, Arizona Territory, Oklahoma Territor}^, and Indian Territory for the purpose of investigatino- conditions relative to the admission of said Territories to statehood. The sub- committee was composed of Senator Beveridge (chairman), Senator Dillingham, Senator Burnham, and Senator Heitfeld, Senator Heit- feld joining the part}' en route before reaching New Mexico. Castaneda Hotel, East Lasvegas, N. Mex., Wednesday, November 12, 1902, 2 o'clock p. m. The committee began the hearing of testi- at the above-named place on the above date. Albert D. Ogborn. the official stenographer for the subcommittee, was, prior to the hearing of testimonv, duly sworn to faithfully, accurately, and honestly take down and transcribe the hearings of the subcommittee. Judge William J. Mills, the first witness called bv the committee^ first having been dul}' sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: J Q. Please state your name, and tell the committee of what court or ^ courts you are the judge. — A. My name is William J. Mills. I am j chief justice of the supreme court of New ^Mexico and judge of the ^ fourth judicial district, composed of the counties of San Miguel, Mora, Colfax, Union, and Guadalupe. Q. Now, in these counties the court is held in each county, is it? — A. Yes, sir; and also the United States court is held in this district, in Las Vegas. Each county, as provided under the law. is allowed to hold court in the separate counties, and the law of the Territory pro- vides that two terms of court shall be held in each county of the dis- trict everv 3'ear. Under the* laws of the Territory two terms of the court are supposed to be held in each count}' each year, and these are paid for by the county. Each county levies a tax for a court fund, and the expenses of the courts are paicl out of the court funds collected in the several counties. There has always been money enough to do this in the four years that I have been judge, except in Guadalupe County. In that county we always held one term, until the Rock Island Railroad was built there; and. of course, fi-om it being built through the county and the ritfrafi' naturally brought in as the result of its being l)uilt. there has been more criminal business, and the new propertA' in the county has not been taxed: and in that county we have- not had any term of court this year. Mv predecessor only held one term during the four years that he was here. 2 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. MEANING OF TERMS " MEXICAN " AND "AMERICAN." Q. Tiike tlio r()UMtio>; county by county and tell the eonnnittee the relative diti'erenee in the pe()i)le down here; I mean by that the diHer- ence in the races, the relative proportions of each. — A. The ten "'American" includes everybod}- that is not a "Mexican;" and in th- county, San Alio-uel — I have not looked at the census — the largest pai of the American popuhition is in the towns — East Lasvegas, Las Vegat and the other towns. Some Americans have been here ever since tli " American occupation, and they are not as good citizens, I think, t the native Mexicans. San Miguel County, which is the largest count in the district, 1 should say — of course this is not accurate — I believ< though, that there are about 6,000 that might be called Americai in it. Q. And how many Mexicans "^ — A. And I think there must be aboi 14.000 or 1.5,000. Q. Now i)lease give us each county in its turn. — A. Mora County, I do not remember the population, but that very largely predominates of Mexicans. The Americans live principally at Watrous and Shoe- maker, and along the line of the new railroad which goes through the countv. There are a larger percentage of the Mexicans than in this county. And in Colfax County I think that three-quarters of the peo- ple there are Americans. In fact, in Colfax Countj^ we sometimes hold a term of court there without a Mexican on the jury at all. Q. How about Union County? — A. There is a predominance of Mexicans. In the northern part of that county I think the Americans predominate. In Guadalupe County, previous to the building of the Kock Island Kailroad, there were some American storekeepers and some men running their Hocks and herds. Since the railroad came I think that it has brought in a larger number of Americans, but before that I think perhaps hve-sixths of them were ]Mexicans. INTERPRETER IN COURTS. Q. Now. about your court, Judge. Do you have an interpreter?^ A. Yes. sir. Q. Do you have an interpreter in each count}'? — A. No, sir; only the one in the district. I have liad him for three years and a half. Q. Now. the work of the interpreter consists of interpreting th testimony of witnesses and the arguments of counsel? — A. Yes, sii the arguments of counsel and instructions of the court to the jury. ' Colfax County 1 have not needed him .sometimes; in the other countie I have had to use him constantly. The Americans are busy, and the always like to try to keep off the juries. Q. What is the proportion of cases in which the interpreter is en ployed? — A. I seldom have an interpreter except in the sessions c the court. Under the laws of the Territory the court is always opei ajid in cases heard in chambers, and where a juiT is waived, there is large ])roporti()n of them tried without an interpreter. Q. How about the jury cases?— A. I do not think I have tried a dozen civil cases with a jury. In some of the civil cases tried before me I have not needed him. In all of the criminal cases I have had to have hiuL Q. In reference to a jury in the jur}' room in making up their ver- NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 3 diets after cases have been submitted to tliem, are tlie services of an interpreter required in the jury room!; — A. No, sir; I never have an interpreter in the jur}^ room. There are always lots of men on juries that speak both languages. Q, And do they interpret it between themselves? — A, I presume so; yes, sir. Q. When you try civil cases that require the testimony of witnesses, what is the fact about the use of an interpreter in those cases ? — A. Well, in some cases we have them, but I think in a very large proportion of cases we do not need them. Perhaps it is because the Americans liti- gate more, or have more proport}" to litigate over. Q. 1 believe you said you did not have more than a dozen civil cases tried before a jury in four vears? — A. Yes sir. I have disposed of 1,477 cases in this district in the first two years; that is, dismissals and trials. JURY CASES MOSTLY CRIMINAL. Q. What is the nature of the most of the cases you have before a jury ^ — A. Well, as I have stated, the most of them are the criminal cases. There are, of coui"se, some murder cases. We have never had a conviction here in the first degree; we have had a very considerable number of second-degree cases, and some third-degree cases. We have had a number of cattle-stealing cases, against which the laws are very severe. We have tried one man. in LTnion County, who assaulted a train, and on the trial he was convicted and hung. He shot a mail clerk through the mouth, and the conductor, and was captured and hung. Q. What is the nature of a majority of the criminal cases ? — A. There are some robberies, but very few; and cattle-stealing cases, there were a great many of those, but practically that industry has stopped in the Territor}', at least in this district. Nearly all the guilt}' parties are either in the penitentiary or afraid to go ahead. But it is like any- where — assaults and all kinds of cases. The United States court is in session, and to-morrow we are going to try some people for robbing a post-oflice in the southern part of Guadalupe County. After that trial is over they will be tried for murder, for it is alleged the}' killed a boy in the robbery. DUTIES OF INTERPRETER. Q. 1 understand the use of an interpreter is to interpret the testi- mony, to interpret the charge of the court to the jury, and to interpret the argument of counsel to the jury. — A. Yes, sir; to interpret everything to the jury that it is necessary for them to know. Q. How many counsel have you here in your court, at Las Vegas? — A. I do not remember exactly; I think between fifteen and twenty, somewhere. Q. And in these other counties, how many? — A. In Colfax County there are a considerable number, perhaps a dozen; in Union County there are four or five. The lawyers here go to these other counties. In Mora County there are none; in Guadalupe County there are now three or four. Before the Rock Island Railroad went there, there were no lawyers there. Q. The lawyers are mostly Americans, are they ? — A. They are all 4 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Americans, with perhaps three exceptions. Of course, the Mexican lawyers talk Enolisli as well as we do. We have no Mexican lawyers in (/olfax County. Q. Would it be inconvenient for the connnittee to inspect your dockets this afternoon^ — A. No, sir; not at all. The clerk is down- stairs. We can brino- the dockets and court records both. We keep the civil records and criminal records. There will be twelve or tit'teen books. I think. There is at the present time but very little crime in this district, except in the eastern part of Guadalupe County, neartheTexas border, where the Texas Rangers drive the people over here and wo have to drive them ])ack. William J. Mills. NEroMUCENO Segura, first having ])een duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. M}^ name is Nepomuceno Segura. Q. How long have you lived in the Territoiy? — A. I have lived all my life in the Territory. Q. How old are you? — A. I was born in 1853, at Sante Fe, N. Mex. Q. And you are the court interpreter here? — A. I am; yes, sir. Q. The court interpreter is appointed by the judge of the court? — A. Yes, sir. WHAT COURT INTERPRETER DOES. Q. Will you describe to the committee the duties — the nature of 3'our duties in that office ?^ — A. Yes, sir. The nature of ui}' duties are to interpret from P^nglish into Spanish all evidence given before the court. There are very manj^ Spanish-speaking people that come before the court as defendants and witnesses, and I have to interpret both ways — from the Spanish into the English and from the English into the Spanish; also the arguments of counsel, l)oth into English and Spanish. That is the amount of the duties of a court interpreter. Q. That is, both the arguments to the court and the jury? — A. Yes, sir; both to the court and the jury. The juries are made up of Spanish-speaking and non-English-speak- ing people, are they? — A. Oh, mind you, here in this county here this is a very large Spanish-speaking people, and we have here about two to one Spanish-speaking members of the jury to the English speaking. Q. Do the Spanish-speaking people speak English? — A. Some of them do ;ind some of them do not. IN JURY ROOM. Q. Now. as to the work in the jury room, jonv services are not required in the juiy room, are they^ — A. No, sir; except in very strenuous cases. No, sir; except in very exceptional cases. In two cases I have found that I had to go in the jury room and interpret for them. This was necessary when there was a portion of Spanish- speaking members and a portion of English-speaking members and neither of them speaking the other language, and the courts thought NEW STATEKOOD BILL. it was pvopor for the intorpvoter to oo into the room so that tliey could interpret, and the nienihcu's of the jury know what waso'oino- on. Q. There is g-enerall>' on each jiny, is there, some member who speaks both Uinguages? — A. Oh, 3'es; 3'cs, sir, NATURE OF CASES. Q. But in the majority of the cases in which your services are required — what is the the nature of the majority of the cases in which your services are required? — A. Well, the majority of them are criminal cases, because I act as interpreter both for the Ihiited States court and for the Territorial courts; you understand they are l)oth separate courts, of course. Q, From your observation as interpreter, what is the nature of most of the criminal cases in which your services are required; that is to say: Here are a number of criminal cases, some are for one crime, some another, and some another. Will you give the committee the proportions, as nearly as you can, of the various crimes from which the cases spring? — A. Well, in speaking of the United States side of the court, the majorit}' of the cases of late years have been under the Edmunds law; that has been the majority of cases. Q. That is the Mormon law, the anti-polygamy law? — A. Yes, sir; and then there is the cases for cutting timber, etc. Q. The majority of cases under the Edmunds law has been due to the influx of the Mormon population? — A. No; I do not believe so. I do not believe tliat the cause of the majorit}^ of these cases being pre- dominant in court is on that account, but it generally takes its cause. Generally it comes from the lower strata of our people (and when I say "our people" I mean the Mexican people) that are brought before the court under that law. Those are the people that come under that law, generally. Q. What are the propoi'tions for larceny, grand and petit? — A. Well, that would be under the Territorial laws, in the Territorial courts. CASES UNDER ANTI-MORMON LAW. Q. Well, give the remainder of the proportions in the United States court. You have given the larger pi'oportion as being under the anti- ]Mormon law; now, then, give the other proportions. — A. Well, there is very little to say in that case; there is veiy little business on the Ignited States side of the court. Q. Going to the Territorial side, then, give the proportion of the crimes which causes the cases. — A. Well, larcen}' comes tirst; that is, I think, the largest proportion of cases larceny cases. There are some murder cases, and in our district here we have had very little, very few cases of that nature — of murder cases. Q. What would you sav, at a rough estimate, would be the numl)er of criminal cases you have had, both in the Territorial and the United States courts within the last four years, if you can make an estimate, a rough one, of course? — A. I could hardly answer that, but it seems to me that the proportion would be about 40 per cent. Q. About 40 per cent of all the cases? — A. Yes. sir; of all cases is criminal cases; and that might be divided among all classes of people. Q. Now take, for instance, in this countj^, what is the proportion? — 6 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. A. Take, for instance — we are, in this county — we are an extraordinary county, so far as members is concerned — the Mexican is. 1 may say we are three to one, more than that even, in this county, and generally in this district. This is the fourth district. We have live counties in this district — San Miguel, Mora. Guadalupe, Union, and Colfax counties. PROPORTION OF CRIMES. Q. Now, will 3"ou take up these counties in their turn and give 3'our estimate as to the propoitions of the population, native and foreign, and kind of cases that predominate in each county i — A. I will take San Miguel, which is the largest, I think, in New Mexico. We have that proportion of y)eople here. Now. having that proportion of peo- ple here — of Mexican people here — foreign element you would call it — the Mexican element, so called, won't come up to half of the criminal proportion in the courts. Q. Take these counties that you have named and give the propor- tion; lirst the proportion of native, or so-called Mexican population, and the proportion of foreign and so-called American population in the count3^ — A. Well, that is what I was coming to. 1 think that the proportion would ])e, if you want me to give in all of the district, it is just about the same: just about the same throughout, because there is only one county in this district, Avhich is Colfax County, wherein we have, 1 believe, a predominance of so-called American population. Q. That is the count}" in which Raton is situated? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And that is a railroad town? — A. Yes, sir. That would be about m}" statement. I think it would hardly be half of the proportion thrown on to us — against the Mexican population, the native population. I say we, because I am a Mexican. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. In other words, the Americans would be concerned in fully half of the criminal cases? — A. Yes, sir; 1 think so. William E. Gortner, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Please >tate your name, residence, and age. — A. William E. Gortner; East Lasvegas, N. Mex.; I am 40 years old. Q. How" long have 3"ou been the court reporter here ? — A. Well, oti' and on. for about ten years. Q. You mean the stenographer in the court ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you take stenography in Spanish? — A. No, sir; I do not. Q. Do you take the testimony of witnesses as we do in other courts? — A. Yes, sir; just the same as in other courts. Q. You take it, then, from the interpreter, do 3'ou? — A. Yes, sir; where the testimony has to be interpreted. one county with ENGLISH-SPEAKING JURY. Q. Do \"ou recollect the case where some member of the jury was not Spanish-speaking? — A. Well. I take down and have in the five counties in the fourth judicial district — there is not but one county in this district where we have an English-speaking jury, and that is Colfax Count}'. NEW STATEHOOD KILL. i Q. In all of the others they arc Spani.sh-.spcakino- juries? — A. Yes, sir. Q. So that in all the cases in which you transcribe the testimony of witnesses it has been from an interpreter? — A. Yes, sir. I would like to explain; under the law here there is a o-reat many cases that can be tried in chambers before the judo-e. MIXED JURIES. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. You mean to say that you have mixed juries in these four coun- ties? — A. Well, in the county of Mora, which is about 3(» miles north of here, the juries, both the g-rand and the petit jury — they have 24 men on the petit jury, so that when one jury is out they can use another — and out of the 24 in that county, proliably two Americans, the balance Mexicans. In this county sav about, out of the 24 petit jurors, six Americans. The Americans always try to get oH' the jury, and the Mexicans want to serve. The}^ want to get the $2 a da}^, and mileage. By the Chairman: Q. Now on these juries there are men of all ages down to what, on the average? — A. Well, the qualification is above the age of 21 and under the age of 60. Q. Now, the Mexicans from 21 up to 35 require an interpreter? — A. Yes, sir, they do. Secundino Romero, first having been dul}^ sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q, You may state your name to the committee. — A. My name is Secundino Romero. Q. What official position have you held? — A. I am clerk of the dis- trict court for the fourth judicial district of New Mexico Territory. Q. What counties compose that district? — A. The counties of Miguel, Colfax, Union, Mora, Guadalupe. Q. Have you present with you some of the records, dockets, and order books of that court? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you kindly furnish to the committee a list of the grand and petit juries w^ho served in the counties comprising the fourth judicial district, beginning with the fall terms of court, 1900, and ending with the fall terms of lt)02, and also a list of indictments returned by the grand juries in said counties during the same period, and make the same a part of your evidence? — A. Yes, sir; I will furnish them as soon as possible. And further the witness saith not. The list of juries and indictments furnished by the last-named wit- ness, which are a part of his testimonv, is hereto attached as Plxhibit "A." Miss Georgia Murray, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Please state your name to the committee. — A. Miss Georgia Murray. S NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. Arc 3'ou a native of New Mexico? — A. No, sir; 1 am not. Q. Where do you come from? — A. 1 am a native of Wisconsin. Q. How long nave you been here? — A. This is the third year. Q. You teach in the schools of Las Vegas? — A. In Las Vegas; yes, sir. Q. How many children do you have in that school there? — A. I think there are 151 enrolled. I am not the principal, 3'^ou know. Q. Who is the principal? — A. Mr. Armijo. Q. Of what department do you have charge? — A. Of the higher grades — the fourth, tifth, sixth, and so on. Q. How many pupils have you under you? — A. I have 27. Q. Boys and girls both? — A. Yes, sir. Q. About what proportion ? — A. Eleven girls and 16 bo3\s. STUDIES IN HIGHER GRADES. Q. And what do you teach in those higher grades? — A. Reading, writing, arithmetic, spelling, language, physical culture, and geog- I'aphy. Q. You teach English in those higher grades? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And no Spanish? — A. No, sir; no Spanish. Q. And how old are the pupils, on the average? — A. The average age, 1 judge, was 13 and l-l. WHAT THE PUPILS SPEAK. Q. And when they come to you from the lower grades, do the.y speak perfect English or only broken English? — A. No, sir; they do not; they speak l^roken English. The fourth grade is the lowest grade. Some of them speak it ver}^ poorlv, but they understand it. Q. Do the}' acquire it perfectly before they get out ? — A. Now, that is a hard question. Q. How long have you been teaching here? — A. Two years; that is, this is my second year; 1 have only taught two months of my second year. Q. So you have really taught but one year? — A. Yes, sir. I did pi-actice work in the normal one year. In the public schools onW one 3'ear, and onl}^ two months over. TENDENCY TO DROP ENGLISH. Q. So that you can hardly say. from your knowledge, that they have perfect English? — A. No; they have not perfect English. Q. Have you had an opportunity to observe them when the}' get out of school, whether they keep up the English or not? — A. Do you mean on the playground? Q. Yes, and at home and in life ? — A. There is a tendency to drop the English. By Senator Dillingham: Q. Please tell us what proportion of those of the lower grades who were Spanish-speaking pupils come up in your grades, if you know. — A. All of theuL NEW STATEHOOD BILL. V By Senator Heitfelu. Q. What school do the American pupils attend? — A. East Las Veg-a.s; there are two districts in the old town. And further the witness saith not. Miss Francesca Zana, tirst having been duly sworn, testilied as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Please state your name to tTie committee.— A. Miss Francesca Zana. Q. Are you a native of this Territory? — A. Yes, sir. ^ Q. Were you born here in Las Vegas? — A. Yes, sir; in Las Vegas. Q. Were "you born in East or W^est Las Vegas? — A. In West Las Vegas. Q. In the old town ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And vou are teaching there now? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Of what branches do you have charge?— A. I have charge of the kindergarten. Q. And the superintendent has the intermediate grades? — A. Yes, sir; the principal. Q. And Miss Murray has the higher grades? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How many children have you under you? — A. 1 have 82. STUDIES IN LOWER GRADES. Q. What do you teach them — what are the things that you teach? — A. I teach them reading, writing, spelling, and arithmetic. Q. Is any of your teaching in Spanish? — A. Yes, sir; I teach them in English and Spanish; I teach them to translate. SPANISH AND ENGLISH TAUGHT. Q. You teach both English and Spanish ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. When they come to school, what do they speak? — A. They generally speak Spanish. Q. Are there any of them who speak English when they come to school? — A. Yes, sir; there are some. Q. What are the Spanish text-books which you teach them, if any i — A. I just teach the lirst reader in Spanish. Q. Do you remember the name of it?^ — A. It is Manella's. CHILDREN AT PLAY USE SPANISH. Q. Have you noticed the children at play ? — A. Yes, sir, Q. What language do they use? — A. They generally use Spanish. And further the witness saith not. Enrique Armijo, first having been first duly sworn, testified as follows : By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. My name is Enrique Armijo. Q. How old are 3'ou? — A. I am 43 years old. 10 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q, Have you lived in the Territory all your life?— A. Yes, sir; I was born in Las Vet>"as. Q. That is the old town?— A. The old town; yes, sir. Q. How many people has the old town?— A. I believe there are about 4.000. CHARACTER OF POPULATION. Q. The character of that population is Spanish, is it not— 1 mean Mexican, as we term it ?— A. Yes, sir. We use the term "Mexican '' to distinguish from the Ano-lo-Saxon. Q. The committee noticed in driving around the town that nearly all the signs were in Spanish where they have groceries and meat mar- kets; what is the reason for that?— A. The majority of the people talk Spanish. Q. You are the superintendent of the schools there, are you '. — A. I am ])rincipal of one of the schools; j^es, sir. Q. You teach the intermediate grades, Miss Murray the higher, and Miss Zana the lower grades? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How many pupils have you in that school?— A. We have 155. Q. There were some of the children that we met this afternoon when riding about town who did not seem to be able to speak English. Do you know whether or not they were from your school ? — A. They were from the Christian Brothers' school; they were not from my school. ENGLISH AND SPANISH READERS. Q. What do vou teach in your schools?— A. We teach them both English and Spanish. We use Baldwin's readers in English and Mantailla's in Spanish. Q. How high up do those grades go in your rooms? — A. In my room thev go from second and third in the English. Q. And how far in the Spanish?— A. In the Spanish, lirst and second. The Spanish language, when they know it fluently in the second reader, they are able to read any reader, because the vowels never change in Spanish. Q. That "is the reason you do not have any higher than that?— A. The board of education do not give us any opportunity to teach any- thing higher than that. Qr Of this 155 pupils in your school, are they Mexican or Ameri- can—that is. in these two terms as they are used down here to contra- distinguish the foreign population from the native population? Are these children native children, from the natives of Las Vegas?— A. Thev are Mexicans, with the exception of one Italian girl that is there, but she don't know any other language but a little English and Spanish. Q. You had just dismissed school this afternoon when we passed?— A. Yes, sir; yes, sir. LANGUAGE USED BY CHILDREN. Q. What language do the children use at play?— A. Most of the time they talk Spanish, but some of the time they talk English. They prefer to talk in their mother tongue. Q. How long have you talked English? I observe that you talk a little bit brokenlv; how long have vou spoken English? — A. Since 1871. NEW STATEHOOD BILL, 11 Q. How loiio- hjive you been superintendent over here? — A. This is the third year in this school, but I have been in other scliools. Q. Where have .you been in other schools? — A. In the lower dis- trict, in No. 1. Q. Do the same conditions prevail there? — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. Enrique H. Salasar, first having- been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Please state your name to the committee. — A. My name is Enrique H. Salazar. Q. How old are you? — A. I was born in 1859; I am al)out 43 years old. Q. Are vou a native of the Territory ? — A, Yes. sir. Q. Were you born in Las Vegas? — A. I was born in Santa Fe. Q. How long have you lived in Las Veg-as? — A. For the last twelve years. Q. Y^ou are the editor of El Independiente? — A. Y^es, sir. Q. And postmaster? — A, Yes, sir. Q. Is your paper weekly or daily? — A. Weekly. newspaper's circulation. Q. How large a circulation have you? — A. About 1,800, audit is published in Spanish. Q. Is there any English paper published in Las Vegas? — A. No, sir. Q. What is the comparati\^ circulation in Las Vegas, through your post-oiBce, of American and Spanish newspaper publications? — A. I have been a newspaper man for the last* 24 years, and it is an average of 10 per cent more than the English paper. Q. In Las Vegas, through your post-office?— A. In my post-office- well, I have, out of 600 there, I have 150 of English paper— that get the paper. Q. That is, your paper? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Of papers published in English and papers puldished in Spanish, what is the proportion of those papers that go through your post- office? You say you have a circulation of 1.80(> of yours? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, are there other Spanish papers that go through your post- office? — A. Y^es, sir. Q. Now, then, are there any English that go through your post- office? — A. No, sir; none. LAS VEGAS EXCLUSIVELY SPANISH. Q. So that in your post-office it is exclusively Spanish? — A. Y^es, sir; as far as the newspaper circulation is concerned. Q. I infer from that that the population of Las Vegas is practically a Spanish-speaking population?— A. Yes, sir. Q. The committee observed, in driving through Las Vegas, that most of the groceries, meat markets, and other signs were Spanish signs; is that from the same reason? — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. 12 NEW STATEHOOD KILL. KiciiAitD R. C. Simon, the offic-itil interpreter of the committee, was here called, and took the following oath, which was administered to him l)y the chairman: You do faithfully swear that you will faithfully and truly interpret into English the statements of the witnesses ealled before this committee. Jesus Maria Tefoya, a Spanish-speaking witness, was first diil}^ sworn, and testified as follows: (The oath was administered to this wit- ness and his testimony taken by means of the oflicial interpreter of the connnittee.) B}' the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. My name is Jesus ^laria Tefoya. Q. How old are you ^— A. Sixty -five years of age. Q. And vou are a native of New Mexico^ — A. Yes, sir. Q. Were vou born in Las Vegas?— A. No, sir: 1 was born in Sante Fe. Q. How long have vou lived in Las Vegas?— A. Since the year 1S4»). Q. How long have you been a justice of the peace? — A. I have been justice of the peace several times; in 187.5 and 1876, and four years now. Q. Your oflice is in Las Vegas? -A. In West Lasvegas: yes, sir, Q. About how many cases have you had this year? — A. I do not know how many cases! About twenty, twenty-five, or tliirty. Q. In this year? — A. Yes. sir. CASES in justices" COURTS. Q. Can vou remember the nature of those cases? — A. Well, my book would show: l)ut. more or less, it is about thirty cases, among ]\lexican and American people. Q. The cases that vou have before you— what language is used? — A. The Spanish. Q. The people who live in Las Vegas speak Spanish?— A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you be kind enough to take the carriage, or any other con- veyance, and go over and get your docket and bring it back? — A. Y"es, sir: all right. And here the witness left the committee room, and returned after some time with his dockets, which were submitted to the committee. Examination resumed. By the Chairman: Q. Do you keep this criminal docket? — A. Yes, sir. DOCKET IN SPANISH. Q. I see it is all kept in Spanish? — A. Part of it; most of it is in Spanish. The Spanish is kept in Spanish and the English in English. Q. The last case was November 7. 1902. That is in Spanish: the next case is in Spanish. Is there anything in this criminid docket that is in English ? — A. Yes. sir; some in English, down there. Q. Who wl-ote this in English for you?— A. I did it myself. Q. I observe in this criminal docket of yours of 200 pages that practicallv all are written in Spanish— all entries?— A. Yes, sir. NEW statp:hood kill. 13 Q. That is because of what? — A. Because the Spanish population is in the majol■it^^ Q. Because the cases are in Spanish, with Spanish-speaking defend- ants? — A. Yes, sir; Spanish-speaking- criminals. Q, You speak Spanish yourself in these cases? — A. Yes, sir. NATURE OF CASES. Q. It will be impossible for the committee in the time at its dis- posal to examine these cases. What are the majority of these cases a])out? — A. The majority of these cases are assault and battery with words. Q. And what is the next most frequent class of cases? — A. The next is from going into the railroad train — some robberies and lar- cenies. Q, Most of your civil docket is also in Spanish ?^ — A. Yes, sir; some in English. Q. I notice here a case written in Spanish where the names are apparently English — that is, a civil case written in Spanish ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. You say where the case is written in Spanish it is because the parties were Spanish-speaking persons ? You sa}^ that where the record is written in Spanish it is where the case was conducted in Spanish? — A. Oh, no; it is not in every case. REASON FOR SPANISH DOCKET. Q. Where they are Spanish-speaking, you put it down in Spanish? — A. No, sir; the law don't compel me to do so. I write more Spanish, because that is my mother tongue. Q. My understanding is that in many instances where the names are apparently English it is caused by the fact that many 3"ears ago Americans came down here and married Mexicans, and the children of those marriages speak Spanish? — A. I only use the English in cases — whether the case is in English or Spanish, I prefer to write the Spanish, because that is my native tongue. Q. Well, I suppose where the names are Spanish and it is written in Spanish there is no doubt but what it was a Spanish case? — A. No, sir; that is right. In cases where one of the litigants is Spanish and the other English I write it in Spanish; therefore most of my cases are written in Spanish. Pablo Ulibarri, a Spanish-speaking witness, first having been duly sworn (the oath being administered through the official interpre- ter), testified as follows, through the official interpreter: By the Chairman: Q. You may please state your name to the committee. — A. My name is Pablo Ulibarri. Q. You were a census enumerator? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Where was your census enumerating district? — A. No. 7 dis- trict, I think, but I am not sure about it. Q. What part of this country did that embrace? — A. Placientas, the district had three precincts. 14 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. Does that include Las Vegas?— A. No, sir; 15 miles north of Las Veg'as. Q. Do 3^ou renienil)er how many people there were in your dis- trict? — A. I do not know just exactly. Q. Give the number as well as you can. — A. About twenty-live hundred. LANGUAGE USED BY COUNTRY PEOPLE. Q. What language is spoken Ijy those whose census 3'ou took? — A. Ninetv-five per cent speak Spanish. Q. 'Of this 9.5 per cent can any speak English?— A. Sixty-live per cent of this 95 per cent also speak English. Q. How do you know, if you do not speak English yourself ? — A. I figure that that percentage speak it. Tliey all learn it in the schools. °Q. How do you know, if you do not speak it yourself? — A. I asked these young people if they went to school and if they spoke English. Q. You know that from those who went to school? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How did you take the census of the 5 per cent who did not speak Spanish '. — A. 6f that 5 per cent some of them knew English and Span- ish, and the rest only Spanish — no; the other 5 per cent knew English, but not Spanish. Q. How could you take the census of those?— A. I could speak suffi- cient English to" make myself understood in English to take their census. OCCUPATION OF PEOPLE. Q. What is the occupation of the people in the district in which you took the census? — A. The greater part of them are farmers. Q. Did you take the census according to your oath and instructions, fully and faithfully, or not?— A. I took it to the best of the knowl- edge 1 had and the orders I received. CENSUS CORRECT. Q. Do you think 3^our census was accurate? — A. I think so, accord- ing to the information given to those people. Q. Have vou voted here in New Mexico ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Are the ballots printed in Spanish?— A. They are printed in Spanish and also in English. Q. Where did you vote?— A. I vote in the old place, in Las Vegas. BALLOTS IN SPANISH AND ENGLISH. Q. What ballot, English or Spanish, does the most of the people use? — A. They vote in English and Spanish l)oth. Q. Have you ever observed any voting in the country districts 15 miles north of here, where you took the census? — A. I was not there at the time of the voting. And further the witness saith not. DiAMO Deo Sena, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: B}" the Chairman: Q. You may please state your name to the committee.— A. My name is Diamo Deo Sena. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 15 Q. How old are you? — A. 1 am 47. Q. Are you a native of the Territory? — A. Yes. sir. Q. Were you born here? — A. I wa.s l)orn rig-ht here in Vegas. Q. You are a census enumerator? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What was your census enumerating- district; what district did you have to enumerate? — A. 1 do not remember what was the num- ber; it was in San Miguel. Q. How far from here? — A. Twenty-five miles. Q. In what direction? — A. West of here. CENSUS OF COUNTRY DISTRICT. Q. Was it a countiy district? — A. Yes, sir. Q. That is, the people were engaged in agriculture ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Sheep raising, or what? — A. Some of the fellows are in sheep raising. Q. And what else? — A. Agriculture. Q. What kind of agriculture do they do out there? — A. Corn and wheat. Q. Where is this located; what stream runs there? — A. The Pecos River. Q. Do you remember, in the rough, what the total number of people was ? (Here the official interpreter of the conmiittee was called and the remainder of the examination of said witness was conducted througli the said interpreter.) A. I do not remember. Q. What was the proportion of languages spoken by the people there? — A. Spanish. FEW SPOKE AMERICAN. Q. How many spoke American ? How many Americans were there in there? — A, Well, very few; but a good many Mexicans speak English, I think. Q. Did you take the census in Spanish? — A. No; I took it in English. Q. Did you take it all in English?— A. Oh, not all English. The names had to go in Spanish. Q. But when you were speaking to the people? — A. All in the S^janish. Q. Did you find anybody who could not speak Spanish over there ? — A. Oh, yes. Q. How many? — A. Oh, 1 do not believe there will be over twenty- tive, or forty, maybe. Q. And in that district how many hundreds or thousands altogether — two or three thousand or fifteen hundred? — A. 1 can not tell how many. About eight hundred; something like that. TWENTY-FIVE SPOKE "AMERICAN." Q. About eight hundred altogether, out of which twenty-tive spoke American? — A. Yes, sir; that was Americans; yes. 1(3 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. By Senator ITeitfeld: Q. What pcrt'entage of the Spanish population speak English? — A. Well, I guess — well, the ones 1 can tell, most of them, they speak English, but speak good English, about twentv-tive; something like that. Q. But all of them, you say, speak some English? — A. Yes, sir; some English. Q. How do you know — do you speak any English? — A. Oh, I know those people. By the Chairman: Q. You sa\' you took the census in Spanish ? — A, Yes, sir. Q. Then, how do you know those people speak English? — A. I have known those people ever since I was born; there is people that I know veiy well there, and they have had a school. By Senator Dillingham: Q. Did you make a correct account of the people in that district ? — A. 1 made it the best I could. CENSUS COKRECT. Q. Was it sul)stantially correct? — A. It was substantially correct. And further the witness saith not, Jose Lino Rivera, first having been dul}^ sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. M}- name is Jose Lino Rivera. Q. Are vou a native of the Territory? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How old are you, Mr. Rivera? — A. I am .56 now. Q. What was your census enumerating district? — A. Well, I do not rememljer the number now. Q. Where was it located ? — A. At old Las Vegas. Q. In the town? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Have 5^ou lived there all your life? — A. JNot all my life; I was born at another place. census in las VEGAS. Q. Do you remember about the number of people in your dis- trict? — A. Well, about; I do not remember exactly. Q. Oh, well, just make a rough guess. — A. Very near 3,O()0 people. Q. That is the town of Las Vegas itself? — A. Yes, sir. Q. There are more people there than that, are there not, or are there? — A. That was in the district where I took the enumeration, 3,0o0. Those were just two precincts. Q. What was the language used in the precincts? What language did }'ou use when you took this census, Spanish or English ? — A. Span- ish, with the Spanish people. Q. With how many out of that number did you use English in taking the enumeration? — A. Well, lean not tell the exact numl)er. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 17 NATIVE LANGUAGE SPANISH Q. Well, the native lang-uage of practically all the people in Las Vegas is Spanish, is it not^— A. Yes, sir. Q. That is the languag-e that they use themselves?— A. Yes, sir. Q. The ticket that thev vote is printed in Spanish, is it not, when they vote:'— A. That I do not remember; I think it is generally in Spanish. . Q. Did you take an oath when you were appointed an enume- rator? — A. Yes, sir. Q. To take this census truly?— A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you do so?— A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. H. S. WoosTER, tirst having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Will you please state your name to the committee?— A. H. S. Wooster is my name. Q. You are not a native of New Mexico?— A. No, sir; I am a native of New York. Q. How long have you been down here?— A. I have been here twenty years. Q. Have you been here in Lasvegas that long? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Are you a justice of the peace in East or West Lasvegas?— A. In East Lasvegas. EAST lasvegas AMERICAN. Q. In East Lasvegas a majority of the people are Americans? — A.- Yes, sir; they are English-speaking people. Q. And your cases are between English-speaking people, are they ? — A. Yes, sir; mostl3^ Q. I see here on your docket the case of The City of Las Vegas v. Achico? — A. Yes, sir; that is a Mexican. Q. When you get a man like Achico, do you have an interpreter? — A. Yes, sir. INTERPRETER WHEN NECESSARY. Q. Do 3'ou speak Spanish? — A. I do not; I invite in an interpreter, and use him when it is necessary. Q. Are you familiar with old Las Vegas? — A. Yes, sir. MIXTURE OF PEOPLE. Q. The population over there is, as we all understand, principalh^ Spanish? — A. Chiefly Mexican. By that we distinguish the Spanish- speaking people from the others; there is some Spanish and some Indians, and a mixture of people. Q. Have you an acquaintance out around in the country here, Judge? — A. Yes, sir; somewhat. Q. What business are the people engaged in in the country out from town? — A. There is a little class of farmers; the}^ raise some crops. H s B 2 18 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. CULTIVABLE LAND ALONG STEEAMS. Q. Are they near some stream? — A. MostlN^ the cultivable hind is along the streams, })ut not ver^^ extensive; the}^ are not what we would call in the East farmers. Q. The chief occupation of the people outside of town, aside from cultivating along the streams, is what^ — A. Some of them have a few cattle, a few sheep and a few goats; and the manv that live in the little plazas, that we call them, the male portion goes out and herds stock. HOW COUNTRY PEOPLE LIVE. Q. What are the plazas? — A. The}^ are places with inhabitants, in a little square. The original town is a little square. As I understand from the Mexicans, the}' were built that way so that they could pro- tect themselves from the Indians, and when old Mexico granted strips of land, little arroyas, they lived in those plazas and went out to cul- tivate, and the plazas were built in a square. Q. So that I understand that these people who live outside here in the countrv, they do not live in separate houses, but out in bunches? — A. Yes, sir; and all the order there is, there is simply a square built around, and there is little avenues built around, and they go out to do their herding, and they have little corrals that they bring their goats in at night. They take them out on the plains and up in the woods, and in the evening they bring them in; and that is the way the chil- dren get their education, lots of them — herding goats. MOSTLY "MEXICAN." Q. Are the most of these people who live out in the country away from the town Mexicans, as that term is used down here ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And they speak what language?— A. They speak the Spanish language, or ivy to: l)ut I understand that it is not the pure Castilian; it is a sort of a jargon of their own. Q. It is not English, is it?— A. No, sir. Q. Could any of us understand it if we went out there ? — A. You could not understand a word. HOW CAxMPAIGNS ARE CONDUCTED. Q. And how are the political campaigns and elections conducted out in the country? — A. Weil, they conduct them the same way that the English do. Q. Do they have speeches? — A. Y"es, sir; it is all in Mexican, and all the ticket's are printed in Mexican. I have occupied the position of justice of the peace and police judge for fourteen vears. Q. Have you observed any of the children over in Old Lasvegas after they take tlieir education in the school there — whether they keep on speaking English or go back to speaking Spanish^ — A. Some of them feel a delicacy about speaking English after they learn it. and in a conversation with them they will avoid speaking English all they can, SCHOOL CHILDREN GO BACK TO SPANISH. Q. And they relapse into Spanish? — A. They go right back to the Mexican. And further the witness saith not. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 19 Eugenic Rudolph, tirst having been duly .sworn, testilied as follows: By Senator Dillingham: Q. Please state your name to the committee? — A. My name is Eugenio Rudolph. Q. Were you a census enumerator? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What territory' did your district cover? — A. 1 think my district was No. 4:6: I am not sure. Q. Where was it located i — A. It was outside of town, nortliAvest from here— north south. CENSUS OF COUNTRY DISTRICT. Q. How far? — A. Oh, well, it is about 40 miles from here. Q. Did you take an oath to do the work correctly? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you do it so^" — A. Yes. sir. Q. What was the nationality of the people in that district, whether the}" were Mexican or American? — A. Well, they were Mexican, a major it}' of them. TWENTY PER CENT AMERICANS. Q. How large a majority? — A. Well, the}" might be about 20 per cent Americans among them. LANGtTAGE SPOKEN. Q, What was the language spoken there ^ — A. Mexican, most of it. Q. Were there schools in that district ( — A. There were not any at the time I was there. I was there in June. Q. Ordinarily, are there schools in that district? — A. Yes, sir; they told me they had schools there: that is. froni November on. Q. Have you any knowledge about the number, the proportion of the children who attended school? — A. Well, according to the enu- merator numbers, I think it must have been — I had about 500 in- habitants altogether, and it was about — let me see, it might be about 200 children amongst them that went to school. PROPORTION OF CHILDREN. Q. Are you sure that you mean that; out of 500 inhabitants, 200 school children? — A. More or less; you might say I would come to some houses where there was two of the family, and about three or four or live children in each house. Q. Do you mean that there were 500 people, grown up, adults, in the district? — A. Yes. sir; in my district. By the Chairman: Q. How many people, altogether, young and old?— A. I do not know; seven or eight hundred; I coukl not very well say; I could not recollect the numbei- there was very well. And further the witness saith not. 20 NEW STATEHOOD HILL. Pablo Jaramillo, tir^t huving been duly sworn, testilied as follows: By Senator Burnham: Q. You may state 3'our name to the committee. — A. Pablo Jara- millo. Q. Were you a census enumerator? — A. Yes, sir; 1890 and 1900. CENSUS UPPER LAS VEGAS. Q. What did your district include in 1900? — A. It included Upper Lasvegas, that was precinct 9; Las Vigiles, that is precinct No. 33, and Las Vegas Hot Springs, that is precinct 47. Q. What was the number of the district? — A. Well, I do not remember what the luimher of the district was. Q. What was the total num))er taken in your districts — A. Five hundred and something was the total number. PROPORTION OF MEXICANS. Q. What proportion were Mexicans? — A. More than half of them. Q. Do you know about the niunber of scholars in the schools? — A. No, sir; 1 can not tell you the number of them, because eveiy little house you w^ill find lots of them. SCHOOL AGE. Q. You can not tell the number of school age? — A. Well, school age is from 5 to 21 years. Q. Can 3^ou tell how many, or about how man}"? — A. Well, I could not tell you exactly. It might be over 1.50. Q. Do you speak Spanish? — A. Yes, sir; I am a Spaniard. Q. And in taking the census you used both languages, did you? — 'A. Yes, sir; where there were Spanish people I used Spanish, and where they were American people I used the English. Q. Are you a native of the Territory? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you always lived here? — A. Yes, sir; 1 was born here; I was born in San Miguel; that used to ])e the county seat of San Miguel County. CENSUS ACCURATE. Q. Do you think you took the census accurately? — A. Why, I think I did — the best I could — according to ni}" oath. And further the witness saith not. F. O. Blood, first having been duh' sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Please state 3'our name to the committee. — A. F. O. Blood. Q. And where are you from originallv? — A. From P^ssex County, N. Y. Q. How long have 3'ou lived here? — A. Twenty-one years in New Mexico. Q. During that time you have lived where? — A. In White Oaks^ Lincoln Count}", four years. Q. How long have you lived here? — A. Seven years here. Q. You are the postmaster at East Lasvegas? — A. Yes, sir. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 21 NEWSPAPERS IN EAST LAS VEGAS. Q. How many newspapers are published in East Lasvegas? — A. Two dailies and two weeklies. Q. Are they all American? — A. The two dailies and one weekly American, and one Spanish. Q. The predominance of the inhabitants here are Americans ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What is the name of the Spanish newspaper here i- — A. La V'oz del Pueblo. Q. This Spanish paper here is printed for the people here? — A. No, sir; it is nearW entirely outside of town. SPANISH paper's CIRCULATION IN COUNTRY. Q. And the Spanish paper in Las Vegas is for the people there? — A. Its circulation is principally in the country. Q. Can you g-ive a rough guess, from the oljservation in your post- office, of tde circulation of that Spanish newspaper in the country? — A. Well, I could not tell the copies; 1 know the number of poiuids; it is practically all. "AMERICAN" PAPERS. Q. How many American papers go out into the country? — A. Proljably 500. Q. Into the whole country of San Miguel? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And the rest of the circulation is here in East Lasvegas? — A. Yes, sir. Q. The people who inquire for mail at your post-office are confined practically to East Lasvegas? — A. Entirely so; yes, sir. Q. Where do the people out in the countiy get their mail? — A. There are little post-offices all out in the country. Q. Do 3"ou know any of these postmasters out in the country ? — A. Yes, sir. POSTMASTERS ' ' MEXICAN. " Q. Are they usually Mexicans? — A. Yes, sir; nearly all of them. Q. Because the people who go to their post-offices are Mexicans? — A. I suppose so; yes, sir. B}^ Senator Dillingham: Q. How many papers go out in the country from your office that are printed in Spanish? — A. Well, I could not tell; there is 140 pounds goes out of our office every week; there is about 8 to the pound, and we send 140 pounds. The paper printed on this side, there is 140 pounds of it. Q. That is the Spanish paper? — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. Rafael Gallegos, tirst having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator Dillingham : Q. Please state your name to the committee. — A. Rafael Gallegos. Q. Do you speak English? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Were you a census enumerator? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Where do you reside ? — A. At Las Vegas. Q. And you are a native of the Territory ? — A. Yes, sir. 22 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. MOSTLY '"MEXICANS." Q. When you were appointed a cen,su.s enumerator, what territoiy did your district embrace? — A, Precincts 7, 20, and 61. Q. Where is that located? — A. It is located in the countj'^ of San Mig'uel. Q. How far from here? — A. It is on the Sapollo River, 10 miles from here. Q. And of what race or races is the population made up? — A. Mex- icans and Americans. Q. And in what proportions? — A. Most of them are Mexicans. Q. And what is the language spoken ? — A. Most of it is the Mexican language — the Spanish language. CORRECT ENUMERATION. Q. Did 3"ou make a correct enumeration of the people in that dis- trict? — A. To the V)est of m^- knowledge. Q. Do you remember what the number of people was?— A. No, sir; I have got a copy of it at home, at m}^ house, but I do not remember now how many there were. By the Chairman: Q. Could you make a rough guess ? — A. No, sir. Q. W^here was this district of yours located with reference to Las Vegas? — A. Ten miles out. Q. What is the occupation of the people there — herding? — A. Yes, sir: and most of them are farmers. Q. What streams How through there. Is that the Pecos district? — A. The Sapollo River. Q. You can not farm away from the stream? — A. No, sir. Q. Why not? — A. On account of the hills. NO FARMS AWAY FROM STREAMS. Q. There is no water among- them? — A. They can irrigate from these streams, but there are no farms far away from the stream, outside of the limits which were given by the Government of Mexico, and the people were not allowed to take away the water from the stream out- side of the natural current. Q. What do the people do away from the stream: do thev herd? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Have 3"ou been in any of the schools out there? — A. Yes, sir. Q. In the country schools? — A. Yes, sir. SPANISH AND ENGLISH TAUGHT. Q. Is Spanish taught in those schools? — A. Spanish and English; yes, sir. Q. Do you know the names of any of the teachers out there? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Can 3"ou give some of the names? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Give some of the names? — A. Melecio Losero. Q. Is that a lady? — A. No, sir; that is a gentleman. The names of the others I do not remember. np:w statehood bill. 23 Q. They are mostly native Mexicans? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you been out in these country districts in an}- political campaig-ns? — A. Yes, sir. POLITICAL SPEECHES MADE IN SPANISH. Q. Are speeches made to the people? — ^A, Yes, sir. Q. In what language were those speeches made? — A. Made in Span- ish. And further the witness saith not. Miss Maggie J. Bucher, tirst having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Please state your name to the committee. — A. Miss Maggie J. Bucher. Q. You are here at the request of Mr. Rodey, are you not? — A. Yes, sir. Q. I take it that j^ou are not a native of the Territory ? — A. No, sir— of Virginia. Q. How long have you been down here? — A. Eight years in East Lasvegas. Q. You are the superintendent of the schools? — A. Superintendent of the schools of the city of Las Vegas; post-office East Lasvegas. We have nothing to do with the schools on the other side. Q. The population of this city is principally American? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And the attendants in your schools are children of American parents:! — A. Mostly; yes, sir. Q. Have you any Spanish? — A. Yes, sir; we have 715, and out of that about 100 Spanish. Q. That is, in East Lasvegas? — A. Yes, sir; the cit}- of Las Vegas. Post-office, East Lasvegas. standard of schools. Q. State what the fact is, whether English is taught here. — A. Eng- lish only here; no Spanish is taught here. The schools are thoroughly up to grade, and they can go in any of the States — they are just as good as the}' are in anv of the States. We have a high school that has a four years' course in pi'eparation, and two years in operation now. By Senator Dillingham: Q. How long is the course before they enter the high school? — A. Eight A^ears in the grades. Q. How many teachers do you have under you '( — A. Fifteen. Q. They are all American? — A. Yes, sir; except the Spanish teacher in the high school. We have a Spanish teacher in the high school. Q. The 100 Spanish never get to the high school ?— A. No, sir. WHEN pupils quit SCHOOL. Q. When do they usually quit? — A. We have them running up, and they -usually quit about the tit'th grade. 24 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. When the Spanish children come to school what do they speak? — A. The}' speak Spanish; they do not know a word of English usually. We have no Spanish children in the high school. SPANISH CHILDREN DO NOT REACH HIGH SCHOOL. Q. They do not reach the high school? — X. Not at the present time; they are improving. Q. Now, then, in the high school 3'ou have a Spanish teacher? — A. Yes, sir. HIGH SCHOOL PUPILS INSTRUCTED IN SPANISH. Q. And your pupils are instructed in Spanish? — A, Yes, sir. Q. How long is that course? — A. Four years, with two in operation now. Our high school has been in the Normal University here because we had no building, and we have just taken it away from there. PURPOSE IN TEACHING SPANISH. By the Chairman: Q. Your purpose in the Spanish is that the pupils may be taught Spanish so that thev may teach Spanish or transact the business of life in a Spanish population? — A. Yes, sir; that is the idea exactly. Q. Have you had time to observe the Spanish children who come up to certain grades and drop out, as to whether or not they go home to their Spanish surroundings and take up the Spanish language? — A. I have not had much opportunity; I have had some. There are some of the girls that have finished up the fifth and sixth grades that hold very good positions in the stores here. Q. Are thej^ mostly boys or girls? — A. About half and half. LANGUAGE SPOKEN AT HOME. Q. They go home at night and speak the Spanish, do they not? — A. Yes, sir. Q. The question is whether or not they leave school — after they leave school their tendency as a whole was to continue the English or to lapse back into the Spanish? — A. They are very anxious not to give up their English, but to answer that question definitely, I could not. Q. Do you observe whether or not in their plays the 1<»0 Spanish children flock together, or do they mingle? — A. The}" mingle. LANGUAGE USED AT PLAY. Q. What language do they use in their plays? — A. A mixture of Spanish and English. If they can use the Engli.^h, they do; if not, Spanish. B}' Senator Dillingham: Q. How far have they carried the grades, in the fifth grade? — A. They read in the fifth reader, and have an idea of fractions and lan- guage work and geography. They are quite apt in anything mechan- ical. They learn to write and learn to draw, but it is very hard to teach them English well. And further the witness saith not. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 25 Felipe Baca y Garcia, a Spanish -speaking witness, fii-st having been duly sworn through the medium of the official interpreter, testified as follows through said interpreter: By the Chairman: Q. You do not speak English? — A. I speak yery little; I understand some. Q. You raa}^ state your name to the conniiittee. — A. My name is Felipe Baca y Garcia. Q. How old are you? — A. Forty-eight years old. Q. You are a justice of the peace; where is 3'our office? — A. In the Placa Vegas, and precinct 64. Q. Old Las Vegas? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How long haye you lived there.^ — A. The last forty-eight years. LANGUAGE PRINCIPALLY SPOKEN. Q. What is the language principally spoken by the people where youliye? — A. Mexican. Q. What are the litigants who appear before you in your court, Mexicans or Americans^ as that term is used? — A. Mexicans are a majority. DOCKET IN SPANISH. Q. I see that all of your docket is written in Spanish. — A. All is written in Spanish. INTERPRETER WHEN ENGLISH IS USED. Q. The witnesses whom you hear before you in the trial of cases, are they Spanish-speaking or English-speaking? — A. When they are English I haye an interpreter there. Q. I see here on page 6 of your docket what appears to be a justice of the peace jury. Is that a jury? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What are the names of those jurors ?— A. They are Pedro Triego, president; Fabriar Gallegos, Antonio Maria, Pedro Grego, Jose Uli- barri, and Luis Pino. Q. That is the only jury on your docket, is it? — A. Yes, sir. NATURE OF CASES. Q. Whatis the nature of your cases ? — A. Some for robberies, others for carrying arms, and cases of assault and battery. Q. Haye you read the Constitution of the United States? — A. Ko, sir; I haye never read it. Q. Haye you been present at any campaign speeches in Las Vegas ? — A. Yes, sir; I have been there many times. Q. In what language are those speeches made? — A. In Spanish and in American both. Q. You try these cases of course under your statutes here, under the laws of the Territory ? — A. Yes, sir. 26 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. LAWS PRINTED IN SFANISH. Q. And arc these laws printed in Spanish? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And also in Eno-lish? — A. I have the code in Spanish, and I do not have it in Enolish. And further the witness saith not. Cleofes Romero, first having l^eeu duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may please state your name to the committee? — A. My name is Cleofes Romero. Q. Are you a native of New Mexico? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you always liv^ed here in this county? — A. Yes, sir; I was born rio-ht here in this town, in old Las Vegas. Q. Where did you get your education; where did you go to school ? — A. First I went to school in St. Marys, Kans., and then I went to the business college in Kansas City. Q. St. Mary's is a church institution? — A. Yes, sir. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. Is that — is St. Marys in Pottawatomie County? — A. 1 do not know whether it is or not. By the Chairman. Q. You went there first, and then to Kansas City, to the business college? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And then you came back home? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And 3'ou are now the sherili' of this county ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Your office as sherifl' takes you pretty well over the county ? — A. Yes, sir. herding, the chief occupation in the country. Q. We gather from what we have learned that the occupation of the people out through the country is chiefly herding? — A. Yes, sir. herders are natives. Q. And they are what, as to their race, Mexican or American, as those terms are used down here? — A. The herders are what we call natives. Q. And they speak what language? — A. They speak Spanish, and you will find a good many that will speak both languages. Q. Have you been out in the campaigns? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Were there any speeches made out in the country? — A. Yes, sir. Q. In what languages i — A. Both languages. Q. Where do you iind the English-speaking men out in the coun- try i — A. There are some precincts where we have Americans, and we speak there in English. SPANISH CHIEFLY USED IN CAMPAIGN SPEECHES. Q. The majority of the speeches are made in Spanish? — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. And here, at the hour of li) o'clock p. ul, the committee adjourned further hearings until Thursday morning, November 13, 1902, at 10 o'clock a. m., at the Palace Hotel, Sante Fe, N. Mex. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 27 Santa Fe, N. Mex., NomiiiU,' IS, 190'2. ,]. Francisco Chavez, first having been duly .sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Mr. Chavez, state to the committee your full name. — A. J. Francisco Chavez. Q. You are a native of New Mexico? — A. I am. Q. Your age? — A. I was born in 1838 — sixty-nine years ago. Q. How long have you been superintendent of public instruction? — A. About a year and a half. Q. During that time what schools have you visited? — A. I have visited the schools in the county of Taos, Rio Arriba, Mora, Colfax,^ Union, Chaves, Eddy. Donna Ana, Socorro, Valencia, and Bernalillo, and this county — Santa Fe. Q. Well, do you mean by that that you visited all of the schools in these counties, or have you visited the schools in the principal towns of the county ? — A. I have been to the county seat of each county. I have looked over the records of the superintendents. I thought it proper to visit two or three or five of these different districts, and have gone there and have communicated with nearly every district in the Territory. Q. Your personal visits have not been in the country schools?— A. Yes; in the country schools, as I have said, in all of these counties that I have mentioned. Q. In a year and a half? — A. Yes; I have visited at least four dis- tricts in each county in these counties mentioned. The law requires me to make an annual visit to each one of these counties, but the appropriation was so small, it being only %b()()^ and postage alone was. $25 a month. You see, I have to communicate with Europe, the Phil- ippine Islands, with (.'aba, with Hawaii, and other States in the Union, and with a large number of agricultural associations in the Union. Q. That would leave you just $200 of your appropriation to make these personal trips on? — A. Yes, sir; I hav^e put my hand in my pocket to pay for some of these trips. STUDIES TAUGHT IN THE SCHOOLS. Q. Mr. Chaves, in the common schools Avhat are the studies taught — in the common schools, not the high schools? — A. Grammar, geog- raphy, arithmetic. This is what is usually taught, but language is taught. Q. Spanish? — A. No; not all of them. There are good schools where Spanish is not taught at all. Q. The committee understands from testimony' already begun that in a high school in an American settlement at East Lasvegas, Spanish is not taught until the highest grade is reached, and in all larger schools- both Spanish and English is taught. — A. Yes, sir. SOME DISTRICTS IN WHICH SPANISH IS TAUGHT EXCLUSIVELY. Q. What is the case about Spanish being taught exclusively in cer- tain counties of the Territory? — A. There are some districts in which 28 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Spanish is taught exclusively. The reason for this is the paucity of teachers. Q. Have 3-ou g-ot a list with you of the teachers of the Territory? — A. No, sir. ^ Q. Is your office here?— A. They ought to be at the office. Q. Can you procure the list? — A. I will do so to-day. WHAT SPANISH TEXT-BOOKS USED. Q. What Spanish text-books are used in the common schools? — A. They are Velazquez's grammar and reader. Q. What else ^ — A. I forget the arithmetic and geography. Q. But some Spanish authority? — ^A. Yes, sir. Probably McGuffey, but translated from the English to the Spanish. Q. The history that is in the common schools? — A. American his- torv. Very likely McGutfey, translated from English into Spanish. And further the witness saith not. The list of teachers forwarded bv the last-named witness appears as Exhibit B. John R. McFie, associate justice, Territory of New Mexico, presid- ing judge, first judicial district, being called as a witness, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. How long have you been in the Territorv, Judge? — A. More than nineteen years. Q. How long have you been judge? — A. Nine years. Q. Your first appointment was under President Harrison? Con- tinued since? — A. I dropped out under Cleveland's term. Was reap- pointed by President Roosevelt last jenr. Q. What State were you originall}^ from? — A. Illinois. Q. What are the counties that comprise your judicial district? — A. Santa Fe, Taos, Rio Arriba, and San Juan. proportion of native population. Q. In the counties, taking them in the order you have named, what would you sa}^, as a rough estimate, of the proportion of the native or Mexican population, or what we call down here Mexican population? — A. At a rough estimate, I would say two-thirds are natives. Q. That would apply to each county ? — A. No. San Juan is largely American. Rio Arriba and Taos are largely native. the larger per cent natives. Q. And Santa Fe? — A. Santa Fe, the larger per cent of the people are native people. Q. That is the count}^ in which the city of Santa Fe is located? — A. Yes, sir. Q. You hold court in each one of these counties? — A. The United States court is held here in Santa Fe for four months, and then court is held in each of the counties twice a vear for Territorial business. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 29 Q. Have you got your official Territorial list for the last one or two or three ^^earsi! — A. Yes; they are in the clerk's office. Q. The committee could have access to them and to the docket? — A. Yes, sir. P]ver3'thing- is at your disposal. rKOVISION FOR INTERPRETER. Q. In the trial of cases, both in the United States and Territorial courts, do you use an interpreter^ — an official interpreter? — A. Yes, sir. The law provides for an interpreter in our courts. In the county of San Juan we rarely use an interpreter. In other counties an inter- preter is necessary, both on account of the ]'ui\v and witnesses. interpreter's work. Q. The work of an interpreter is what? — A. He translates English into Spanish and Spanish into English. Q. He translates the testimony of witnesses to court and jury and translates the arguments of counseH — A. Y"es, sir; and the charge of the court to the jury. The law requires the charge of the court to be in writing, and of course it is in English, and it is then read in Spanish to the native juries, if the}^ are native juries; also interprets the oath of office. METHODS OF JURY ROOM. Q. When the jury retires to the jury room what is the nature of the work of an interpreter being' re(|uired in the jury room to translate for those who speak English and no Spanish and others who speak Spanish and no English? — A. It is very rarely that an interpreter is sent unless requested by the juiy. The reason for this is there are many of the natives who speak English and they are required to interpret. Q. There is alwaj's somebod}^ in the jury room that speaks both tongues, but not everyone? — A. I never allow an interpreter in a jury room unless there is some one in the jury room that can not speak English. This rarely occurs, but then the official interpreter is required. THE COMMISSION OF CRIME. Q. Now% as to the taking up of criminal side of the court, what are the proportion of American to Mexican classes; can you give a rough sort of estimate as to the proportion of the greater crimes of the criminal court? — A. Speaking as to this district, I would estimate two- thirds of the crimes as committed by the native population to one- third by the Americans. Q. Y^our rough estimate as to the proportion of the crimes of the Americans? — A. It is very difficult to get at that because it differs very greatly here. Eor instance, there is no preponderance of one class of crimes. I think the matter of larceny would predominate when it comes to the stealing of stock. And then the crime of arson and assault and battery would probably come next. Q. Judge, outside of the countv of San eluan, have 3'ou had a single case in all of your service as judge in a jur}" case where the services of an interpreter was not required? — A. Well, I think not. I do not 30 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. rectill a case now for the reason that natives predomhiate in our terri- tories. Q. Your juries run in age from 21 to 60 years? — A, T^'enty-one to 60 years. This is the age limit. COMPOSITIOX OF JURIES. Q. You tind that the young- native members of the jury speak Span- ish^ — A. Yes; a great many of them; but there are a very large num- ber of them speak English with the Spanish people that speak English. Q. Do they speak English as fluently as we ourselves this day, here this morning? — A. No; not as fluently as we do; but I think there are more than one-half of them speak it so as to be conversive. Q. ^Vhat is the language they use among themselves ? — A. The}" speak the native tongue. I notice a tendency to speak the language among themselves after they have acquired it. Q. Have you in your long residence down here — I take it you have traveled more or less among the country districts? — A. I have held court in all of these counties. HERDING AND SHEEP RAISING. Q. The people outside of the towns and out in the country are engaged, as I am informed, chiefly in herding and sheep raising. Espe- cially along the water courses? — A. Yes; along the water courses the}^ are farmers. Q. Have you visited the schools out in the couaitry? — A. No, not man}' of them. Q. You are not prepared to testify, from personal examination, con- cerning the schools of the countr}"? — A. No. Q. Have j^ou ever participated in political campaigns out in the countrv districts? — A. No, sir: 1 have never since I have been in the Territory. Q. Your jury lists are kept in books, are the}* not ^ — A. Yes. HOW JURIES ARE MADE UP. Q. They are drawn, are they not^ — A. The commission selects the juries and sends in the list, and then the juiy is made from these names that are sent in b}' the committee. Q. So this jury list is selected by the commission? — A. Yes. And furthermore witness saith not. The committee resumed hearings at 2.30 o'clock p. m. Miss Barbara Ferea y Risarri, first having been duly smorn, tes- tified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Will you please state your name to the committee? — A. My name is Barl)ara Perea }' Kisarri. Q. You were a census enumerator? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And what was your census district? — A. Cerrillos and Madrid. 1 think the number of the district was 21, if I am not mistaken. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 31 Q. Was it in this county ? — A. Yes, sir; in this county of Santa Fe. Q. Was it in this city or outside? — A. Outside of the city. Q. How far away ? — A. 1 thinlv Cerrillos is a))out 28 or 30 miles from Santa Fe. Q. Were the people in the district which you enumerated town or countiy peopled — A. Mostly all country people; 3'es, sir. MOSTLY LAliOKERS. Q. Their occupations were what'^ — A. Well, mostly all of them were laborers. Q. Laborers at what? — A. Some of them used to work for the rail- road and some of them at the coke ovens. Q. Can 3"ou remember, at a rough g-uoss, of what the total number was that you enumerated? — A. I am afraid I can not remember now. Q. What proportion, what number of the number you took were natives, or Mexicans, as contradistinguished from Americans? — A. Well, the greater part of them were Mexicans. In Cerrillos and Madrid I took in a few Americans and other nationalities — that is, in Madrid more than in Cerrillos. Q. Out of the total number that you took what was the proportion that were Americans as compared with the Spaniards? Were there many Americans? — A. Not very many, just a few. CENSUS TAKEN IN SPANISH. Q. In taking the census of the native population did you use the Spanish language in taking them? — A. Yes, sir; I did. Q. They spoke Spanish? — A. They spoke Spanish; yes, sir. Q. Before you entered upon the duties of j'our office 3^ou took an oath, did you? — A. Yes, sir; 1 did. Q. To faithfully enumerate the people, and so forth? — A. Yes, sir. CENSUS ACCURATE AND CORRECT. Q. Did you faithfull_y, accurately, and correctly enumerate the people in your district? — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. Jose D. Sena, iirst having been duly sw^orn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee? — A. My name is Jose D. Sena. Q. Are you a native of New Mexico? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How old are you? — A. I am 35 3'ears old. Q. Have vou lived here all your life? — A. Except the years 1 have attended school. Q. Where did you attend school? — A. In Las Vegas, and two j^ears in St. Louis. Q. You are the assistant interpreter? — A. Yes. sir. Q. You interpret for the court when the official interpreter, who has been elected sheriff, can not act? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Where do ,you interpret for him? — A. The only term I attend regularl}^ is the Rio Arriba County, where he has been elected sheriff'. Q. Have you attended the conventions iiere: did you attend the last liepublican convention here? — A. No. sir. 32 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. INTERPRETER FOll CONVENTION NOMINATING PRESENT DELEGATE. Q. Did you attend the TeiTitorial convention which nominated Mr. Rodey? — A. I attended the Republican Territorial convention this year. Q. Did you interpret there? — A. I did. Mr. Maortez was appointed interpreter on the floor, but I interpreted. Q. This was the Territorial convention which nominated Mr. Rodey? — A. Yes, sir. Mr. Maortez was appointed interpreter on the floor, and his voice gave out, and I did it for him. Q. What did you do in that convention? — A. I interpreted the speeches seconding- the nomination of Mr. Rodey. The nomination w^as made by a gentleman in English, and I interpreted it in Spanish, and I interpreted for Mr. Romero, of Las Vegas. Q. Where was that convention held? — A. In Raton. Q. When was it held i — A. Octol)er 10, this year. Q. And an}^ speech made in English you interpreted into Spanish, and any speech made in Spanish you interpreted into English ? — A. Yes, sir. METHOD OF INTERPRETATION. Q. And 1 understand that the method is for a speaker to speak a sen- tence and then he stops and you translate it, and then he speaks another sentence and you translate that? — A. Yes, sir; although most of them when I am interpreting keep right on and I keep up with them. Q. That is on account of your proflciency as an interpreter? — A. Yes, sir. TRANSLATION IN THE COURTS. Q. Just describe briefly your translations in the courts: what it is that you translate. Do you translate the testimony of witnesses? — A. Yes, sir, and the questions of counsel, and the arguments of coun- sel to the jurv, and the instructions of the court to the juiy. IN JURY ROOMS. Q. You have been called into jury rooms? — A. Yes, sir; this term of court I attended I was directed to go into two jury rooms with the jury themselves. There was one man on the panel that could not speak English at all, and he was the only one on the panel that could not speak English and Spanish both, Q. And 3'Ou have had two such cases in court this term? — A. Yes, sir. IN THE LEGISLATURE. Q. Are you the interpreter in the legislature? Who is the inter- preter in the legislature ? — A. The}^ generally select a diflerent one ever}" term. IN THE COUNCIL. Q. Who was the last one ?— A. The last one was Mr. Reed; he was the interpreter for the council. NEW STATKHOOD HILL. 38 IX TUi: HOUSE or KKI'KKSENTATIVES. Q. The council- timt is in the plui;e of the senate;!— A. Yes. sir. And in the house of representatives tlwy had Mr. Nestor Montoya, and also they had Modesto Ortiz. Q. Where are they from ( — A. They l)oth live, in All)U(|uer(|ue. Mr. Montoya, he is the court ii>terpreter there. Mr. Reed was the inter- preter'of the council, but really in the council he had nothing to do. TENDENCY TO USE OE ENGLISH, • By Senator Heitfeld: Q. What is the tendency to the use of the English language on the part of the Mexican population; is it growing^ — A. It is growing, and 1 can notice it every day. For instance, the children on the streets play with young American children sometimes, and the Ameri- can boys will try to speak the Spanish, and try to learn it. and the little boys won't let them. And in my own people th(} custom is. when tlK\v get to talking English, they talk it entirely. For instance, in my'own family we talk in English entirely, except when mother is present, and then we talk Spanish, because she don't talk English at all. Q. Is that the case in the outlying districts? — A. Yes. sir; the poorer peo^^le are very anxious to learn the English. They learn it as fast as they can. Sometimes the people who live in my neighbor- hood, they go out to work in families that speak English, and I meet them and'speak to them in Spanish and tliey vrill answer me in English. By Senator Dilltngha:m: Q. That is especially true of the l)etter educated class? — A. Yes, sij"; and a majority of the }>eople doing business here speak English. Bv the Chaik:\l\n: Q. Are you acquainted with Las Vegas? — A. Yes. sir. Q. Would you say that that was the case there? — A. No, sir: not so much. Q. In one carriage there yesterday members of the committee met a great many children, and tried to speak English with them, and they could not do it. — A. Well, that is not the case so much over there. A RACE PREJUDICE. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. In Las V.egas, as I understand it, the two elements are divided by two towns? — A. Yes. sir; and there seems to be a race prejudice there more than in any other part of the world. Q. Is that the case here;' — A. No, sir: I have not seen it so pro- nounced any place else as there. That was dying out, I thought, the last time I was there. Q. Have you any other towns like that ? —A. We have .Vlbu([uer(iue: there is the old town, which is Mexican, and the new town is almost entirely American. Q. \Vhat language do rhey use in the 1)usiness houses here'? — A. English, chiefly. H s B 3 34 NEW STATEHOOD HILL. BOOKS EOUCrllT. Q. ll'AVQ ycni tiny Spanish schools in this town ? — A. ISo, sir: we have no Spanisii in the schools in the Territory. As I understand it. the hoard of education, in buyino- ))()oks, they are all Enolish hooks. Of course there are places, for instance, in the country districts where the teacher has to have a knowledge of both Eno-H.sh and Spanish. By the Chairiman: Q. Are you speaking from knowledge r ] suggest that you ought to be certain about that statement. — A. I mean by that that it is not taught exclusively to any other language. Q. P)ut you do not mean to say tliat Spanish is not taught in an}' of the schools^ — A. I do not think it is taught in any of the schools here in town. All the information 1 have as to that is that last year the}' had a Spanish class in the high schools here. 1 think Mr. Woods, the superintendent, could give you more information in that regard. And furtlier the witness saith not. Facundo Ortiz, tirst having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator DiLLiNGiL\M: Q. You may state your name to the committee^ — A. My name is Facundo Ortiz. Q. You speak English ^ — A. Yes, sir; 1 do. Q. Y"ou were one of the census enumerators at the last census? — A. Y'^es, sir; 1 was; in the enumeration district No. 20. Q. Where was that territory located? — A. In the Territory of New Mexico. Q. In what particular part? — A. It was at a place called Sante Fe, Agua Frifra, and CMenaga. outside the city. Q. How far away from the city? — A. It starts about a mile out of town. Q. And goes how far? — A. About 10 or 12 miles: if 1 ;im not mis- taken, as far as 16 miles. Q. How long were you employed in taking the census ? — A. Exactly, I can not tell you. Q. Well, about how long:! — A. Abouta month. NATIONALITY OF INHABITANTS. Q. What was the nationality of the iidiabitants of that district: that is, to what race did they belong? — A. Most of them are natives. Q. Mexicans ; — A. Y"es. sir: ^Mexicans. Q. How large a proportion of them were Mexicans? — A. '\>'ell, most all jMexicans, they wert\ MEXICAN LANGUAGE USED. Q. What language did you find was used connnonly among them? — A. Mexican: they all spoke Mexican. Q. What language did you use in taking the census^— A. The same as tliey did. Q. Do you recollect about what the population of that district was in numl)er? — A. No, sir; 1 have not got it in my mind noAV. I could not tell vou exactlv. 1 do not remember exactlv. NEW STATEHOOD HJLL. 35 A CAREFUL ENUMEKATIOX. Q. Did you make a careful enumeration, so as to be sure that they all g-ot onto your record^- A. Yes, sir; I went house by house in taking- the enumeration. And further the witness saith not. Clementa p. Ortiz, first having- been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator Dillinciham: Q. You may state your name to the eonunittee.— A. My name is Clementa P. Ortiz. Q. What is your age ^ — A. Seventy -one years. Q. And how long-' have you lived in the Territory ?— A. All my life, with few exceptions, when 1 went to school, and in the States two or three years. Q. You we're one of the census enumerators in 1900^ — A. Yes, sir. Q. And where was your work done in 1900^ — A. It was in Espanol and San Ildefonso. Q. And where are those places located ^— A. It is— San Ildefonso is northwest of here. Q. How far? — A. About 20 miles from here: and Espanol is about 26 miles. Q. Are those villages; or was the territory sparsely inhabited? — A. There were not many villages; scattered houses. Q. How many inhai^itants in the district that you enumerated, as nearly as you can recollect? — A. I ])elieve it was over a thousand, if I remebemr well; 1 do not exactly remember. RACE OF THOSE ENUMERATED. Q. And to what race did those inhabitants mainly belong, Mexican or American?— A. Spanish; that is, not any Indians; I did not go to the pueblos of the Indians, and some Americans and Germans, and so forth. Q. ^Vell, what j^roportion— how large a proportion of the entire population of the district were of Spanish extraction ? — A. It was a majoritv; majoritv Spanish. It was about three-fourths of it. Q. And what language did they employ ?— A. Well, some of tliem spoke Spanish, and the young boys anil girls beg-in to speak English. Q. Wliat language did you employ in taking the census? — A. Eng- lish and Spanish both. Q. English with the English-speaking people and Spanish with the Spanish-speaking people? — A. Y^es, sir. A FULL AND COMPLETE ENUMERATION. Q. Did you make a full and complete enumeration of tlie people in your district?— A. I did, sir: I did all I could. If anyone were absent "it was not my fault. I went to every house and inquired of every village. I did not take any of the Indians on the pueblos. They had a special enumeration for them. And further the witness saith not. 30 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Ambrosio Ortiz, first having" l)een duly sworn, testiliod as follows: By Senator Dillinmiham: Q. You may state your name to the coniniittee. — A. M}^ name is Am))rosio Ortiz. Q. You speak P^noHsh ^ - A. Yes, sir. Q. How old are you^ — A. 1 will be 63 next December. Q. And you reside here? — A. Yes, sir; I was born here in Santa Fe. Q. Have vou always resided in the Territory? — A. Always in the town of Santa Fe. Q. And you assisted in taking the census of 1900? — A. Yes, sir. Q. AVhereabouts? — A. In precincts 4 and It), here in the city, in the limits of the corporation. Q. Do you remember about the number of inhabitants of those precincts ? — A. There were thirty-one hundred and some odd. PROPORTION OF MEXICANS AND AMERICANS. Q. What proportion of them were of that class known as Mexicans and what proportion were of that class knowMi as Americans? — A. About one-third Americans. Q. And two-thirds Mexicans? — A. Yes, sir; two-thirds Mexicans. LANGUAGE USED. Q. What language is used by the Mexicans? — A. We always use the Spanish language. Q. That is usual andcustomar}- when they are associating together? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Is there any effort on their part to master the English and use that!' — A. Sometimes they did. Sometimes when I went to a house and I did not find the men there, and I spoke to the lady in the Spanish language. Q. What language did you employ in taking the census? — A. The Spanish and English. There were some Germans, and the}^ all spoke English. I used English among the English people and German peo- ple, and Spanish among the Mexican people. CENSUS ACCURATE. Q. Did you take pains to make a full and accurate enumeration of the people? — A. Yes, sir; I did, sometimes. Q. Well, how well do you think you succeeded? — A. First rate. Q. How man}' schools are there in those precincts? — A. There is one Indian school and 4 schools of the city. Q. Do 3'ou know the number of pupils in that district? — A. I do not recollect. Q. Well, did I understand you to say that there were 4 schools in that district where you took the enumeration? — A. Yes, sir: 4 schools. The precinct No. IT, those are the government, and the precinct No. 4, it belongs to the city. Q. Do you know whether Spanish is taught in those schools or not? — A. They teach English, Q. Do they teach Spanish, too? — A. I do not know exactl}', 1 think very few; they teach the young children, maybe. And further the witness saith not. NEW statp:hood bill. 37 Joseph P. Conklin, lirst luivino- ])eon duly sworn, testitied as follows: By Senator Dillingham: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. Joseph P. Conklin. Q. How old are you? — A. I am S-t. Q. Do you i-e.side in the city c — A. Yes, sir. Q. How long- have you been a resident here? — A. T was l)orn and raised here. 1 took the census in the southern portion of this count}'. Q. How far out from the city? — A. Why, 1 started from here 34 miles, and from that on ^0 miles, along the district 1 had. Q. About how many inhabitants were there in that territory;' — A. About 900. OCCUPATION OF INHABITANTS. Q. And, in genoral. what was their occupation? — A. Well, most of them were mining-. Q. And those not engaged in mining were engaged in what ^ — A. Well, sheep raising and farming. Q. Is there an}' farming except right along in the bed of the streams? — A. That is all — right along the streams. Q. And how was the population there divided up as between these 900 people, as to Americans, as that term is known here, and Mexi- cans? — A. Well. I suppose about two-thirds were Mexicans, and the other third were Americans; but then most of them Mexicans in the mines, however, talk English as well as Spanish. Of course those that were engaged in farming, they have a school about three months out of the year, and the young ones they are learning it, but the old folks do not know it. OLDER INHABITANTS CLING TO SPANISH. Q. The older ones cling to the Spanish? — A. Yes, sir; they never learned it, and they are too old now. Q. How large a territory was that — that is, in area? — A. Why, it is about 20 miles long, and 1 do not know how wide it is; about 10 or 15 miles. Q. It was a sparsely settled district? — A. Yes, sir; only right where the mining was done. MINES OWNED BY AMERICANS. Q. Those engaged in mining came in contact with the Americans all the time? — A. Yes, sir; the mines are owned by Americans. Q. Did you take pains in making this enumeration to make it as per- fect as possible? — A. Yes, sir; 1 made as good a record as anybody. Q. You are satisfied that it was perfect? — A. Yes, sir; I am. And further the witness saith not. James D. Hughes, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator Dillingham: Q. You may state your name to the connnittee. — A. eTames D. Hughes. 38 NEW STATEHOOD BILL, Q. And what is your ag-e, Mr. Hughes? — A. I am 41, Q. How long- have you ))een a resident here^ — A. Since 1881 — twenty-one y(>ars. Q. You are a ])ul)lish('r^ A. I ha\-e charge of the business part of the phint, Senator. I have nothing whatever to do with the publica- tion or editorials. AN ENGLISH AND SPANISH PUBLICATION. Q. State what the publication is that you are connected with. — A. It is a daily publication; we have a daily in English, a weekly in English, and a weekly in Spanish. Q. What are the names ^ — A. The Santa Ee New Mexican is the daily. The New Mexican Review is the English weeklv, and El Neuva Mexicana is the Spanish edition of the weekly. RELATIVE CIRCULATION. Q. What is the circulation of these various publications? — A. The daily had a circulation last year of a thousand and twenty, the English weekly of TOO, and the Spanish weekly 1,!)00. Q. And where is the weekly mostly circulated? — A. That is out in the outside districts — out through the ranching districts. WHERE CIRCULATED. Q. That is true of both of these publications? — A. Very largeh^; 3'es, sir. Of course we have quite a sales circulation in the town with the English weekly.. We have practically no subscribers at all for the English weekly in town; it is almost altogether out of town. Q. And are these substantially the same paper, one being in English and the other in Spanish i — A. Our English daily and weekly are sub- stantially the same. The weekly is made up from the daily, but the Spanish weekly is only partially what the dailv is. We have a sepa- rate editor for that and translator. It is very largely the same. We take extracts from the daily. Q. Is there any other newspaper published in Sante Fe? — A. There is a Spanish weekly. El Boliten Popular, and another English weekly, the Capital. Q. You have no knowledge of the circulation of them ( — A. None whatever; not the slightest. OUTSIDE PUBLICATIONS. Q. I suppose outside publications come in here freely ;' — A. Oh, 3'es. You see, Senator, we get Denver papers at night of the day of their publication, and it curtails the circulation in the Territory of the local papers. The Denver papers are the papers that are mostly taken here. I suppose ther(^ are more Denver Republicans and Denver Times — more than all others combined — although the St. Louis Glol»e-Democrat and the St. Louis Republic have a large circulation in the Territory. And further the witness saitli not. NEW S1\NTEH()()D BILL, 89 A. M. Bekgeke, iirst huvinn' hcciii duly swoni, tcstiried as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state 3'oui' muue to the conmiittee. — A. My iianic is A. M. Beroerc. Q. What official position do you hold? — A. I am clerk of the district court of th(^ tirst judicial district of the Territory of New Mexico. Q. What counties coni})ose that district? — A. The counties of Santa Fe, Rio Arriba, Taos, and San Juan. Q. Have you present before the coniuiittee some of the records, dockets, of that court? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you please furnish to the committee a list of juries who served in Santa Fe County, 1902; Rio Arriba County, 1002; Taos County, 10O2; San Juan County. lOoo, and make the same a part of 3'our testimony? — A. Yes. sir; 1 will do so as soon as possible. And further the witni^ss saith not. Said jury list furnished ]>v the last-named witness, and duly certified to I)v him, is ann(\\ed as Exhil)it ''C." Francisco Anaya, first having been duly sworn, testitied as follows: By the Chairman: Q. What is your name? — A. Francisco Anaya. Q. Do you speak English? — A. Not very well, but 1 can understand some. Q. You are a native of New Mexico? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How long- have you been a justice of the peaces — A. I have been a justice of the peace for prett^y nearly two years; two years next Januar}'. SPANISH DOCKET. Q. I see this docket is practically all written in Spanish. — A. Yes, sir. Q. Why is it you make it in Spanish instead of English ? — A. Because we keep the dockets in Spanish. Q. I see here that nearly all the names of the parties in running- through the docket are Spanish names. — A. Yes, sir. Q. Are most of your cases with the Spanish population? — A. The majority of them are Mexicans in my precinct. Q. In the trial of these cases the witnesses are examined in Spanish. Are the cases conducted in Si)anish? — A. Yes, sir; sometimes in Spanish, sometimes in English. There are so many cases that have to be tried there that we have to try them in English. INTERPRETER E^OR JUSTICE OF THE PEACE. Q. Where the}^ are tried in English, do you have to have an inter- l)reter? — A. Sometimes, because some of the witnesses are Americans and some are Mexicans; but 1 do not understand the language, and have to have an interpreter on the floor. Q. Do you have juries !; — A. Yes, sir; sometimes. Q. Is there any jury list in this docket of yours ?^ — A. No, sir. Q. Do you have lawj-ers in your court? — A. Yes, sir. 40 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. LAWYERS SPEAK SPANISH. Q. I)c> the lawyers speuk to the juries in Spanish^ — A. Yes. sir; sometimes. Q. \\'ell, do they very often sp(>ak to the juries in English ? — A. Yes. sir. Q, When they do, do you have an interpreter^ — A. Yes. sir: we do. Q. Do you ever have a jury in whieh English is spoken in which you do not have to have an interpreter^ — A. No, sir. There are many times that the jury is composed of Americans and Mexicans. The Americans understand the Mexican language and do not have to have an interpreter. JURY LISTS. Q. You have a list of the jury in your justice court? — A. Yes. sir. Q. They are in Spanish ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Have vou read the Constitution of the United States? — A. Yes, sir; I have read part, not all. Q. AVhat do understand the Constitution of the United States to be ? — A. I understand the Constitution to be — the statutes of the Terri- tory of New Mexico were made in the Constitution of the United States of America. . Q. \Yhat parts have you read ? — A. 1 have read parts of it in Spanish. Q. You have not read all of the Constitution? — A. Not all. Q. Can you remember any ])art or any portion of the Constitution i — A. The Constitution is under what the laws of New Mexico are made. And the laws of New Mexico have to be made under the Constitution of America. Q. Do you know how the Constitution of the Ignited States l>egins i — A. No, sir. A .iriiV SEXTEXCE. [Ciiiiy tnkcn from docket. Jury sentence.] Saxta Fe, N. M., Abril 7 de 1892. Nosotros los del juit\do liayaiiios al acusad*) con culpa y le imponemos So. 00 de imilta y cinco dias de carsel. Marcos Castillo, Presldcnte del Jurado. Charles M. Conklin, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman : Q. U'ill you give the committee your full name? — A. Charles M. Conklin. Q. How long have vou li\ed here? — A. 1 was born here. Q. 1 judge from your name that you are what is known as Amer- ican, as distinguished from Mexican? — A. My father is American; mother is Mexican. Q. How long have you l)een a justice of the peace? — A. About a year. Q. About a year? — A. Yes. sir. Q. I notice, in running over your docket here, that it is all written in Spanish. — A. Yes. sir. Q. Why is that? — A. Because it was the custom of the justice of the peace that was before me. He always kept the record in Spanish. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 41 Q. I iilso notii'O that the record kept is not your hunchvritiiio-. — A. The handwriting- is by my son, who helps me, Q, Your son ^ This is your name sio-ned to the bottom, is it not? — A. Yes, sir: some written by m}' son and some b}' Jose Maria Garcia. Q. Your son writes Eng-lish? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And you write English ( — A. Yes, sir, Q, Yet your docket is kept in Spanish? — A, Yes, sir, Q, In the trial of causes tried in your court are the trials conducted in Spanish? — A, In Spanish, mostly. Of course most of the lawyers that practice in the justices' courts speak Spanish ? Q, And where there is a lawyer that speaks only P^ng-lish, then you have to have an interpreter^ — A, Sometimes: because I speak English myself, Q, You interjn-et, then? — A, If there is a jury, then I have to have an interpreter, but otherwise not, because 1 speak English myself. INTERPRETER USED IN JURY CASES, Q, In the case of a jury the service of an interpreter is always used? — A, Yes, sir, Q. I see 3^our several dockets are also kept in Spanish, — A, Yes, sir: for the same reason, Q. They are kept in Spanish^ — A, Yes, sir: they are kept in Span- ish — record and all. Yes, sir, Jose Maria Garcia, tirst ha\ing been duly sworn, testilied as fol- lows: By the Chairman: Q, Will you give your full name^ — A, Jose Maria Garcia, Q. Are 3'ou a justice of the peace now? — A, Ko, sir, Q, You preceded Mr, Conklin ( — A, Yes, sir, Q, How are justices of the peace appointed in the Territory ? — A. By election. Q, They are elected by the people? — A, Yes, sir, Q, How long were you a justice of the peace? — A, I have been a justice of the peace eight years: that is, now eight years next January, Q, Did you turn over your records to Mr, Conklin? — A. Yes. sir, reason for KEEPING RECORDS IN SPANISH, Q, In what language were those records kept!* — A, Usually in Spanish, because the people here are Spanish, and the American peo- ple are less than the Mexican people and most all talk Spanish, you know, and of course I like my own language better than any other, the same as I like the Tnited States lu^tter than any other country in the world. Q. Sometimes you have English-speaking counsel in the court. In that event, did you use an interpreter? — A. No, sir. Q. You could understand English Avhen it is spoken? — A. Yes, sir. Q. But when you have juries 'what is spoken? — A. We speak Spanish. Q. If you had American witnesses or Eng'lish-speaking counsel, did it require the services of an interpreter? — A. Yes, sir; because the 42 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. witnesses and lawyer of defendant are unable to understand what the\'^ are talking about. Q. You were born in the Territory'? — A. Yes, sir; 1 was born here in New Mexico. I was raised up here and lived here until the civil war, when 1 enlisted, in 18(U. You see I am crippled. Q. Outside of that, you have lived here all the tinie^ — A. Yes, sir. Camilo Padilla, tirst having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Will vou please state vour name to the committee? — A. Camilo Padilla. Q. You were a census enumerator!! — A. Yes, sir. Q. What was the district you were to enumerated — A. Part of the city of Santa Fe. Q. In this enumeration do you rememl)er, in a rough way, about the number you enumerated? — A. Maybe about fifteen or seventeen hun- dred people. Q. In taking those 1,T<>0 people how many would you say used the Spanish language? — A. Mayl^e almost all, because there are very few Americans living in that part of the city. There are a few Germans and Italians. Mostly all are Spanish people. Q. Bt^fore 3'ou began your work did you take an oath to faithfully and correctly enumerate all the people in your district t — A. Yes, sir. ENUMERATION CORRECTLY MADE. Q. Did you faithfully and correctly enum(n-ate all the people in your district? — A. Yes, sir. And further witness saith not. JirvENCio QuiNTANA, fir.st having been duly sworn, testified as fol- lows : By the Chairman (answers through the official interpreter of the conmiittee) : Q. Will you give your name to the committee f — A. Juvencio Quintana. Q. You are a justice of the peace? — A. He saj^s he is. Q. How long? — A. Since last year; February. Q. Where have vou resided? You area native of this place?— A Yes; I am a native of this Territory. Q. Always resided here? — A. Lived in Santa Fe all my life. Q. In your court do you have occasion for an interpreter ? — A. One time in the whole of his court. INTEKl'KETER USED IN ENGLISH CASES. Q. What language is used in your court? — A. In Spanish only, but sometimes, when it is an English case, he speaks English. Q. Only once had occasion for an interpreter? — A. Onlv one time. Q. What occasion then ? — A. Does not remember. Q. In what language is your record kept? — A. In Spanish. Q. Entirely? — A. Yes. sir. Q. Do you have a jury ? — A. No. Q. Have you had occasion for a jury? — A. No. And further witness saith not. NEW STATKHOOI) HILL, 43 Leonardo Dukan, first haviiijj' been duly .sworn, testiticd as follows: By the Chairman (answers through the official interpreter of the committee): Q. Will you please state your name^ — A. Leonardo Duran. Q. How long- have you been a justice of the peace? — A. Two years. (}. What language is used in your court iJ — A. Spanish. Q. And for what district are you a justice of the peace? — A. The eighteenth. Q. In Saute Fe?— A. Yes, sir. Q. In Avliat language are the records of your court kept ? — A. In Spanish. Q. Do you require the services of an interpreter at any time? — A. Yes; sometimes. Q. On what occasions? — A. When it is a case where the man can not speak in Spanish. ' Q. Have you read the Constitution of the United States? — A. A" little of it. statutes printed in SPANISH. Q. Are the statutes or laws that you have in your justice's court })rinted in Spanish? — A. In Spanish. And further witness saith not. Paul A. F. Walters, first htiving been duly sworn, testified as follows: B}^ the Chairman: Q. Will you give to the committee vour f ull name? — A. Paul A. F. ^Valters. Q. How long have you lived here? — A. Three and one-half years. Q. What State did you come from? — A. Eastern Pennsylvania. Q. Did you come down here about the same time Mr. Andrews did? — A. No; I came here after he had 1)een interested in the Terri- tory, but he has lived here onh' in the last year. I was in Santa Fe. Q. You were a neighbor of his in Pennsylvania? — A. He lived in Pittsburg and 1 came from the eastern pail of Pennsylvania. I knew him in Harrisburg. Q. You are the postmaster here now? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How long have you been postmaster? — A. Three months. circulation of SPANISH NEWSPAPERS. Q. What would you say of the Spanish-printed newspapers that go through your office here? — A. I should judge about 85 per cent. Q. Of those that go through the mails here only what would the per cent be? — A. Almost 50 per cent. Q. Almost one-half? — A. Yes, sir. NATIVES AS LETTER-AVRITERS. Q. The mail that is put into tlic office and received, what is the per cent of that? — A. That is a matter of guesswork, but the natives are great letter- writers. Most of their mail is in the S^janish handwriting. Q. Are the newspapers going out of this office all printed here in 44 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. the cit_y? — A. Yes. They would pvat'ticuUy have to be to entitle them to second-class postage. Q. You have no accounts — A. That is my opinion. I have made no account. Merely guesswork. Q. Do 3'()U speak Spanish;! — A. A little; not much. I can under- stand it, but do not s])eak it. Q. Have you any difficulty in making these men understand — patrons of your office^ — A. Once in a while. Patrons from the country districts can not understand me, but the average man in the city can understand English. Q, You have some one in the office that can speak Spanish, 1 sup- pose? — A. Yes; my assistants speak Spanish and English. Q. Your communications with the patrons of 3'our office would l)e very simple? — A. Very i)lain. Yes. And further witness saith not. Pedro Sanchez, tirst having been duly sworn, testified as follows; By the Chairman (submitted through and answers by the official interpreter of the committee): Q. State your full name. — A. Pedro Sanchez. Q. You were the census supervisor of New Mexico? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How old are you? — A. Seventy 3'ears.' Q. Seventy years ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. You appointed the enumerators under you? — A. Yes. Q. You remember altogether how many enumerators there were? — A. About 78. majority of census enumerators were natives. Q. Were nearly all of these natives — Mexicans, as they use the term Mexican down here? — A. The majority were natives. Q. Did most of these natives speak Spanish ? — A. All spoke Spanish. Q. How many of them spoke Spanish and nothing else? — A. Not sure; but think they all spoke English and Spanish. I am not quite sure. Q. You do not speak English yourself. How do you know they all spoke English ? — A. They wrote to me that they all spoke English. They made their applications, and in these applications they stated they spoke English and Spanish. Q. You did not see theui in person? — A. Not all. Q. We had at Las Vegas before us yesterday some of the enumera- tors who could not speak English. — A. In that case they lied to me, because they represented to me the other way. Q. Of the enumerators named by you some were Americans, were they not? — A. vSome were Americans. Q. Very few, however? — A. In some cases the population were more Americans, and in those the enumerators were Americans. enumerators asked for SPANISH INTERPRETERS. Q. There w^ere thirteen Spanish interpreters to assist the enumerators in taking the census. What were these interpreters for? — A. Because the enumerators asked for them. Because some of these gentlemen NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 45 speak Ensi'lish, and Spanish, and Grornian, and for that reason they asked for these interpreters. Q. His explanation does not lit the following- facts: He had 1 German interpreter, 17 Indian interpreters, 1 Italian interpreter, 18 Spanish interpreters. Ask him if it is not the fact that the ] :> Si)anish interpreters were not recjuired ])y American enumerators who found out that they could not take the census in their precincts without a Spanish interpreter^ — A. He does not know the reason why it was. They simply made ai)plication for these interpreters and he g-ranted them. Q. Is it not his opinion that these 13 Spanish interpreters that were requested from him were requested by American enumerators who could not take the census without them? REASON FOR REQUESTING SPANISH INTERPRETERS. A. That is the reason why they asked for them. They could not make themselves understood. Q. Has he traveled out in the coiuitry in the outl3"ino- districts? — A. No. Q. Any place out in the Territory? — A. He has traveled a little — not much. Q. When? — A. During- the last two years. Q. Where? — A. In Albuquerque, Dona Ana. Rio Arril)a, and Taos. Q. Now he savs he has traveled a little in the country districts? — A. Yes. Q. If he has lived here all his life, he has lived here before the rail- roads came. Has he traveled out in the country? — A. Yes; before the railroads came. POPULATION OF COUNTRY DISTRICTS MEXICAN. Q. Out in the country districts, what is the character of the popu- lation — is it Mexican or American? — A. The greater part Mexican; the majority of the people are Spanish. Q. What language did the majority of the people in the country districts speak? — A. Spanish language. Q. Before he took his office he took an oath to administer the duties of supervisor of census and that the census would be correctly taken. Was the census correctly taken? — A. He says he carried it out to the very best of his knowledge, and that he took the oath. Q. Was the census taken correctly and accurately ? — A. He says he thinks it was taken entirely correct; but there are some who say it was not taken correctl3^ Q. Quite correctly? -A. Quite correctly. And further witness saith not. Albuquerque, N. Mex., JVovejiiher llf., 1902. The committee resumed its hearings at the above place at the above date and hour. fFudge Benjamin S. Baker, called as a witness before the com- mittee, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Please state to the committee 3'our name and official position. — 4() NEW STATEHOOD KILL. A. Beiijiuuiii S. Baker; associate justice of the supreme court of New Mexico. Q. How long have you been associate justice^ — A. I entered upon the duties of this office the :^!>th day of flanuary of this year. Q. Have you been continuously on those duties ever since ^ — A. Ever since; yes, sir. Q. liow many times do you have courts — A. I held one term of court here in this county, and two — well, since the 17th of September of this term of court now in proo-ress; and one term in Valencia County, and one term in McKinley County. Q, What county is this^ — A. Bernalillo County. Q. What counties constitute your district!; — A. These three coun- ties that I have named — Bernalillo, Valencia, and McKinle}' counties. PROPORTION OF POPULATION. Q. What are the proportions, as you have observed, of the Mexican and American population in these counties, using those terms as they are used down here? — A. Do you mean of jurors or cases? Q. No, no; of the population. — A. Well, in J^ernalillo County I come in contact with a great many more Republicans, I should say Ameri- cans, for the reason that this city is practically all Americans. At the court I would thirdv at)out 60 per cent would be Mexicans; that is, in this county. Q. Now. in the other counties, how is it? — A. In Valencia Count}', those with whom I come in contact, I would think three-fourths, maybe 80 per cent, are ^Mexicans. Q. In McKinley County, how is that? — A. Valencia County, that is one of the strongest Mexican counties in the Territoiy. McKinley County is about, I would think, 80 per cent Americans. Q. Where is that located? — A. That is west; Gallup is the county seat. Q. What river runs through that county? — A. I do not think they have got any river. MEANING OF TER:M "'AMERICAN.'- Q. Is that a mining county? — A. Yes, sir; very heavy coal mines. Now, when I use the term "American" I mean all other nationalities except Mexicans. Q. The preponderance of Americans in McKinley County is explained bj' the coal mines there, is it? — A. No, sir; among the merchants and among the ranchmen, and there is a very great many engaged there in the Indian business, as they term it— the blankets, and curios, and evei\ything of that kind. Q. In your courts, Judge, in the trial of cases ])efore a jury, do you hav^c an official interpreter? — A. All the time. Q. You have him here now? — A. Yes, sir. DUTIES OF AN INTERPRETER. Q. The duties of that interpreter are what? — A. Well, he interprets all of the witnesses that can not talk the English, and if he does talk English and there are Mexicans on the jury that do not understand the English he interprets that. NEW STATEHOOD lULL. 47 Q. And the arQuinents of counsel? — A. And the arouniciits of counsel: yes, sii-. Sometimes we have a jury that understands the Eng-lish. ONE CASE TKIEl) WITHOUT INTEKTRETEK. Q. Do you have that in this county? — A. Yes, sir; I have had, I think, one of the twenty-four that did not understand the Enu'lish; and if you get thcnn mixed properly once in a while you have a jury that is all right, and if not if there is one on the jury that does not understand the English we have to use the interpreter. Q. And in Valencia County?— A. I would thiidv e\ erv case. Q. And in McKinley County how is it^ — A. I think in McKinley ■ County the only term I have had there was only two that required the interpreter out of the twenty-four. Q. Have j^ou had any case since you have l)een on the 1)ench when the interpreter was not used? — A. I think in McKinle}" County. That is a new county and they haven't much business. Q. Altogether in the three counties, since you began your official duties, how many cases have you tried before a jury without an inter- preter? — A. I declare I do not think there is more than one. PROPORTION OF CRIMES. Q. Taking up the criminal side of the docket. Judge, what would be your estimate as to the proportion of crimes, not as distributed among the natives and Americans, but as to the nature of the cases, whether larceny, or murder, or what; what percentage constituted those crimes, if you know? Give a rough estimate. — A. Well, the criminal business is very light. I think we have had about — I think only four murder cases. Q. That is, in the United States court? — A. No, sir; in both. There was one in the United States court, and 1 think — my recollection now is — three in the others. CRIMINAL DOCKET HEAVIER IN TERRITORIAL COL'RT. Q. The criminal docket, of course, is necessarily heaver in the Ter- ritorial courts than in the Federal courts^ — A. About the same. LIQUOR CASES. Q. The reason 1 have stated it in that form was that in the other two districts where we have been it was stated to be that way. — A. It was al)out the same, on account of indictments for selling liquor to the Indians. In this count}" what I have stated is true. They have run up in num])ers on account of the indictments for selling liquor to the Indians; they have run up. Well, I guess may1)e the Territorial is a little heavier; but we will do all the criminal business in this county in eight days. And further the witness saith not. Nestor Montc^ya, first having been dulv sworn, testitied as follows: By the Chairman: * Q. You may state to the committee your full name and age. — A. My name is Nestor Montoya; 35 years old. 48 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. Are you a native of the Territory ? — A. I am. Q. How long- have you acted as official interpreter of the courts? - A. For a1)out twenty years. Q. You just succeeded from one judo-e to another I' — A. No, sir: I have been interpreter in different districts. Q. In different districts of the Territory? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Your duties as interpreter consist, as the committee understand it. of interpreting- the testimon}' of witnesses to the jury and the court, and the arguments of counsel to the jury and court? — A. Arguments of counsel at times to the jury, not to the court. Q. And the charg-e of the court to the jury? — A. Y"es, sir. "COURT INTERPRETER,'' A REGULARLY ESTABLISHED OFFICE. Q, That is a regularly established office \ — A. It is. by Territorial enactment. Q. You occasionally, or if oftener say so. gx) into the jury room, and it is when the jury consists of ^Mexicans, so called, and Americans, so called, in order to interpret between them? — A. Well, on veiy rare exceptions; generally there is always either a Mexican, what we call Mexicans here, or Americans, what we call Americans here, on the jury that understand both languages. But 1 think, in my whole expe- rience of nearly twenty years, I have l)een in the jury room to explain matters between the Spanish-speaking and English-speaking juries twice: once in Colfax County, at Springer, and the other time at Sante Fe. Q. Colfax (bounty is one of the heaviest American comities, is it not? — A. Y^es, sir. COMPOSITION OF JURIES. Q. In your twenty years' experience there have been a large num- ber of instances where the jury was entirely Mexican, or spoke Span- ish? — A. I do not remember of but one jury — of anv jury, except in one county where the whole jury — two counties, where the whole jury was Mexican. That was in Valenica County, the next county to this, and in Taos County, up abo\"e. Q. Where has your experience been in the twenty years? — A. It has been in the first judicial district, of which Sante Fe is the seat, and in the fourth judicial district, of which Las Vegas is the seat, and in this district. Q. When did you go into the jury room in Colfax County ? — A. I went there on one occasion; that was about 1S8H. I believe. Q. Y'ou have not been interpreter in that district within recent years? — A. No, sir. Q. A gentleman who lives in Las Vegas is interpreter there now? — A. Y"es. sir. Q. The Americans are more numerous there now than formerly ? — A. Y^es, sir. Q. So that there would be more Americans on a jury there now than during the long period you speak of? — A. Y^es, sir; that is right. Q. During the long period you speak of, before the Americans came down here, was it the case or not that the juries were nearly all Mexicans? — A. Not in that countv. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 49 Q. Well, 1 am speakino- of all over the Territory. — A. Well, the majorities of the jury were Spanish speaking. WHEN AN INTERPRETER IS NEEDED IN THE JURY ROOM. Q. In other words, 1 understand that where an interpreter is needed in the jury room it is where some member of the jury speaks English and can not speak Spanish^ — A. That is right. And therefore they have to interpret back and forth. Q. Where were you born? — A. In the old town of Albuquerque. Q. That is largely Mexican, is it not? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How large is this county of Bernalillo? — A. Why, the extent of the county nuist be about — from Bernalillo down to Isleta — about 70 miles north and south, and it must be about 200 miles east to west. Q. Have 3^ou been pretty well over the count}^, in* the country dis- tricts? — A. Yes, sir. Q. "^rhe people of the countrj- districts are of what character as con- tradistinguished between Mexican and American ^ — A. They are mostly Spanish-Americans. What we call Mexicans are scattered Mexi- can ranches, and sheep raising. Q. The business of these people out in the country districts is chiefly herding, is it not!' — A. It is chiefly cattle raising and sheep raising and farming. FARMING ALONG STREAMS. Q. The farming is done mostly along the streams? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Along what streams? — A. In the valle^^ here, and also they have some small streams in the east part of the county and in the west part. THE SANTA FE RIVER. Q. We saw the Santa Fe River yesterday at Santa Fe; it was a little stream not 3 feet wide. Farming is mostly along the streams, and is impossible in districts away from these streams, is it not? — A. Yes, sir; it is; but they simply farm enough to raise for their own consump- tion, for fodder and forage. HOW OUT-DISTRICT COUNTRY PEOPLE LIVE. Q. The committee understands that in the country districts out away from the towns the people, instead of living in separate houses, as is the custom up in other States, live in little clumps of houses, called villages? — A, Yes, sir. Q. Surrounded by a wall? — A. Oh, no. Q. They live together, in other words '. — A. Yes, sir; in the villages, although some of the villages are scattered: a man has a ranch here and a ranch there, and a village 2 or 3 miles ofl'. and it has a name. Q. What language do they use among themselves? — A. Well, the Spanish language; yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. At 2 o'clock p. m. the committee resumed hearings at the above- named place. H s B 1: 50 NEW STATEHOOD 151 LL. G. \V. Metzoar, tirst hjivino- |)eon dul}^ .sworii, testitied as follows By the Chairman: Q. You iiiiiy state to the committee your name and age. — A. My name is G. W. Metzgar, age 40. Q. How long have you lived in the Territory? — A. All my life. Q. You were born in the Territory? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you been living right here? — A. Half the time, and half the time 6 miles from here. Q. You were a census enumerator? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Was yours a country district or a town district? — A. It was a town district, I think. Q. Was it in New Albu([uer(|ue or the old town ^— A. It was in the countr}' jibout 8 miles. Q. Eight miles in what direction?— A. North, precinct No. 2, CHARACTER OF POPULATION. Q. At a rough guess, about how many people were in your dis- trict? — A. It was a little over 8(l(), if I remember right. Q. What was the character of that population, Mexican or Ameri- can, as those terms are used down here? — A. About medium. Q. Do 30U speak Spanish? — A. Yes. sir. Q. What language did vou use in taking the census? — A. I used both. Q. When it was Spanish, you used Spanish? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What was the occupation of the people in your census district? — A. Oh, most of them farmers. Q. Is that along the Rio Grande? — A. Yes, sir. FARMING BY IRRIGATION. Q. They farm from irrigation along the rivei'? — A, Yes. sir. Q. Are the}' small or large farms :' — A. Large farms, I think. Q. How many acres in a farm that 3'ou call a large farm? — A. I call a farm that has 160 acres a l)ig farm for this countiy. Q. When 3^ou use the word American out here you mean all other foreigners except the Mexicans, do you? — A. Yes, sir. Q. You say they were about half and half ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Were these Americans — these foreigners, Americans from the States, or Germans, or what were they? — A. Oh, they were mostly native Mexicans. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. Do \'ou mean from that Americans or mostly Mexicans? — A. Most of the people there are Mexicans. B,v the Chairman: Q. Did the people mostly use the Spanish language? — A. No; lots of them use English. Q. What did you use in making the census? — A. Most of them Spanish and English. Q. Did you use any English in making the census of the Mexicans ? — A. No, sir; alwaj's Spanish. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 51 Q. Whiit liuioiuigo do they talk among- theni.selve.s ? — A. Yes, sir; Spanish, Q. You took an oath before 3011 entered upon your duties to hon- estly and accurately take this census, did you not? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you take the census according to your oath, truh' and hon- estly^ — A. Yes, sir. CENSUS COKKECT. Q. Is your census correct^ — A. Yes. sir; I tliink so. A. In this census district of yours are there any country schools? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you renieniher the names of any of the teachers out there? — A. I do not remember them now. Q. Were 3'ou in any of the schoolhouses? — A. No, sir. Q. Ha\'e you been in any of the schoolhouses out in the country i — A. No, sir. Q. You do not know from personal observation what is taught out in the country schools? — A. No, sir. When I learned to read and write m}^ father had a school-teacher of his own. There was no schools in the country hardly then. C. When was that?— A. That was in ISTO. I was ahout S or 9 years of age. And further the witness saith not. Seferino Ckollott, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: Bv Senator Dillixgham: Q. You may state your name to the committee, — A. My name is Seferino Crollott; that is a French name. Q. Where do vou live? — A. I live in New Albuquerque, Bernalillo County. Q. Were you a census enumerator? — A. I was appointed by the general superintendent in districts 3 and 4 — by Mr. Sanchez, in July, 1900. Q. Your territory covers what districts? — A. Districts 3 and 4, in Alameda and Sandia. Q. Did you make a careful and full enumeration of those districts ? — A. I did; yes, sir. Q. And made a correct report ? — A, Yes, sir. Q. Do you remember the num})er of the population ? — A. It must have been about fourteen to tiftecn hundred. HALF '•'American'" and half ""Mexican." Q. And, in point of race, what were the proportions? — A. Well, some of them, they were half American and half Mexican; that is to say, their father was American and he was married to a Mexican lad3\ Q. Can 3'ou tell us about what proportion? — A. Well, the average on that must have been, in 1113" two districts, between 110 and 115 families. Q. All of the balance of the population was Mexican ? — A. Well, most all of the balance. 52 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. And what language is used among the people of your district? — A. Well, the average in the English people must have been about 45 per cent. Q. I do not think I understand you. — A. About 45 per cent of the of the population there speaks the P^nglish language. OLDER RESIDENTS CAN NOT SPEAK ENGLISH. Q. And the balance the Spanish language? — A. Yes, sir; the old, old Spanish people can not speak it at all. It is only those from 18 down, say, from 21 down to or 7. speaks pretty fair English. I found a good many there from 45 to 50 that could speak the English pretty well, but those from 65 up could not speak it at all. Q. Do 3"ou know anything about the schools there? — A. Yes, sir; 1 visited the schools there. ENGLISH AND SPANISH TAUGHT. Q. What is taught there? — A. They are taught in the English and Spanish both. Q. In reading and writing? — A. Yes, sir; both in the same way. Q. When they take up grammar and history and geograph3% what text-books do they use? — A. When they take up grammar and history and geography and higher mathematics and history- Q. Are they in English or Spanish? — A. The teaching was in both languages, English and Spanish. By the Chairman: Q. Is this your justice of the peace docket ^ — A. Yes, sir. Q. Where are you justice of the peace? — A. In the old town of Albuquerque. Q. How long have you been a justice of the peace? — A. I have been a justice of the peace two j'ears. Q. Is this your docket [indicating book] ? — A. Yes, sir. DOCKET MOSTLY IN SPANISH. Q. I see, in running through from page to page, that there is qcca- sionalh' the record of a case kept in English and mostly the records are in Spanish? — A. Yes, sir; sometimes I make it in Spanish and English. Q. Most of the cases are written in Spanish. — A. I make the record of a case in English or Spanish. Most of my population there in that precinct are Spanish, ^^ou see. and most of the cases are in Spanish. WHEN TRANSCRIPTS IN ENGLISH. Q. So that when j'ou have a case in Spanish 3'ou keep a Spanish record? — A. Yes, sir; although the transcript into this court I make in English. Q. You do not make the transcript in Spanish? — A. No, sir. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 53 FEW ENGLLSII CASES. Q, There are comparatively few Eiio-Hsh cases here? — A. Yes, sir; they are very few, Q. In the cases that you try before a jury A. There are very few tried before a jury. Q. Mostly before you?— A. Yes, sir. ^ Q. You speak both languages? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And you do not need an interpreter?— A. No, sir; unless the parties that come before me can not speak both languages. Q. That does not occur very often? — A. No, sir. CASES OF ASSAULT PREDOMINATE. Q. What are most of your cases for? — A. Well, the most of them is for assault. 1 hardly get a case for larceny. Q. Have you schools out there in your district? — A. Yes, sir; we have. Q. Do you remember the names of any of the teachers out there? — A. Well, the school is under the management of the Sisters. Q. Both English and Spanish are taught, ars they?— A. Yes, sir; both Spanish and English. Q. The people in their homes speak Spanish? — A. Well, my chil- dren I have in their schools — I have seven children, and they speak the Spanish language, ))ut they read and write in English. My wife is Spanish, of course. Q. Do the people before you speak Spanish? — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. Modesto C. Ortiz, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name and age to the committee. — A. My name is Modesto C. Ortiz, 40 years of age. Q. You were a census enumerator? — A. Yes, sir. Q. You are a native New Mexican? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Where was your census district? — A. It was the upper town, in the old town of Albuquerque. Q. How many people were there in your census district ? — A. Eleven hundred and twent3"-tive. ENGLISH USED. Q. What language did j^ou use in taking the census? — A. The Eng- lish language. Q. Altogether in the old town of Albucpierque? Do you speak Spanish? — A. Yes, sir; I do. Q. What did most of the people speak in the district where you took the census? — A. English. Q. The most of the people? — A. Yes, sir. Q. In their own homes? — A. Well, in their own homes they used their own language. Q. And the Spanish is your own language ( — A. Yes, sir. Q. And yet, although that was their language and your language too, you took the census in English? — A. I took it in English in some instances, of course. My question was in my own language also. Q. You did not, in api)roaching the Mexican population there, you 54 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. (lid not use th(> laii<;-UiiuT that they used and that you used, you used English:: — ^A. When I approached my own pi^ople, 1 used the native language. NATIVK TOXdUE USED IN MAJORITY OE CASES. Q. So that in a majority of cases you used the native language? — A. Yes, sir. Q. You took an oath to faithfully and honestly and correctly take the census? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you so take the census? — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. EsLAVio Vigil, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Y'ou may state your name to the committee. — A. My name is Eslavio Vigil. Q. Wei-e you a census enumerator? — A. Yes. sir. Q. How old are you? — A. Thirty-eight years. Q. Are you a native New Mexican ? — A. Y"es, sir. Q. Where was your census district located? — A. In district No. 5, in Barillas, in Bernalillo County. Q. Where is that from here? — A. AI)out half a uiile from here, joining the city limits. Q. Is it in what is known as the Mexican town? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How many people were in your district? — A. About 1,500. Q. That is in the Mexican town^ — A. Yes, sir. Q. In taking your census of this population you used, in your questions, what language? — A. In some cases, English. Most of the people there they are taught in the English a good many years, and lots of that people don't. Q. Spanish is your ow^n language? — A. Y^es. sir. SPANISH THE LAxXGUAGE OF THE MASSES. Q. And Spanish is the language of the masses of the people out there?— A. Yes, sir: yes, sir. Q. Now, that being the case, when you went to question these people who use the Spanish language, and that being your own tongTie. do you mean to tell the committee that you used the English instead of the Spanish in taking that census? — A. No, sir; no. sir. Q. You used the Spanish? — A. Y"es, sir. Q. Do you live out there? — A. Y"es, sir; I live right there. Q- Y^ou took an oath to take this census correctly^ — A. Y''es, sir. Q. Did you do so? — A. Y^es. sir. CENSUS CORRECT. Q. Your census is correct? — A. Yes. sir. Q. The language which the people use in their homes out there is what? — A. The most of it is in Mexican. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. Do 3'ou fill anv official position now^ — A. No; 1 am on the school board, I am the clerk of the school board, and I am elected at this last election school superintendent of the county. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 55 By the Chairman: Q. You are the newly elected .school superiTitendent of this county ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Are you familiar with the countr}' districts of this county, the districts outside of the town^ — A. Yes, sir; yes. sir. OCCUPATIOX OF THE PEOPLE. Q. Along- the river the committee understands that the people are engaged in small farming by irrig-ation? — A. Yes, sir. Q. But away from the river the people are engaged in herding of one kind and another; is that correct? — A. Yes, sir; some in herds and some in farming. Q. How can they be engaged in farming away from the water courses? — A. Well, sometimes we have the water until June and July, and we raise a crop of wheat. Q. Out on the mesa what do thev do? — A. They generally have it witliout any irrigation. Q. Do they raise wheat without irrigation on the mesa and on the mountains? — A. Yes, sir, Q. The people in the country districts outside are of what nature as to their race, Mexican or American, as we use those terms down here? — A. They are Mexicans. Q. They live, as the committee understand it, not in separate houses .some miles apart, but in little clumps of houses; is that correct? — A. Ko; they have adobe houses. LIAE IN NEIGHBORHOODS. Q. But those are in a little neighborhood together? — A. Yes, sir. Q. The language by the country people out in the country is wdiat? — A. 1 will explain myself a little further about that. Some of them have them close together and some of them do not; the}" have their houses on their own farms, separated. Q. What is the majority of cases? — A. The majority of cases, out- side on the mountains, outside of the Rio Grande, the}' have them on their OW'U farms. Q. But along the Rio Grade they are in clumps? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What is the language that the people use among themselves? — A. The Mexican language. Q. Are there schools out in the country? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Can you remember any of the names of the teachers out in the country schools ? — A. Yes. sir; lean tell you some of the names of tliem. Q. Have you got a list of all the country teachers? — A. 1 have not got it with me. Q. It can be procured? — A. Yes, sir. WHAT IS TAUGHT IN THE SCHOOLS. Q. The studies taught to the children in those country schools are what? — A. English. Q. You have arithmetic? — A. They taught English in their school. Q. Do they also teach geography? — A. Yes, sir; and grannnar. 5(5 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. And do tli(\v tc:u'h English? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And thov toiicli Spaiiisli ? — A. No, sir; they are prevented from teacliino" Spanish in all the schools here. We do not get Mexican hooks to teach the; language. They request that they want to learn the language. We have our own children that learn the English lan- guage. Q. Do you mean in th(> country districts of this county? — A. Yes, sir; in this county. We have not had — for four years I have been on the school board, and we have not got a single book; we have Spanish and English. And fui'ther the witness saith not. WiLLL\M BoKOHERT, tirst having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator Dillincjiiam: Q. You may state to the committee your name, age, and residence. — A. Aly name is William Borchert; Albuquerque; age, 62. Q. And 30U are a justice of the peace? — A. I am, sir. Q. How long have you been a justice of the peace? — A. Since last July. Q. You reside in what they call the American city — the new city ? — A. Yes, sir; Albuquerque. Q. Have you your dockets with you? — A. Yes, sir; I have brought my own record that 1 have kept. My office is appointive. 1 was appointed in July to till out the term of my predecessor, last July. Q. Now, what is your jurisdiction ; over what territory ? — A. Simply precinct 20, here in Albuquerque. Q. Your jurisdiction is confined to that? — A. Well, it is anything in the county. 1 was appointed in precinct 26, but my jurisdiction extends all over the coiuity. Q. The cases coming before you are from that precinct? — A. Yes, sir; generally. Sometimes they come to us on change of venue, or in the al)sence of the justices in the other precincts. Q. The large majority of the people in that precinct are Mexicans? — A. Yes, sir; we have a very few Americans. HIS OWN INTERPRETER. Q. Do you speak both languages? — A. Yes, sir; I am my own interpreter. Q. Have you always lived in the Territor}'? — A. I have lived here for thirty-five years. Q. What class of criminal offenses predominates? — A. V/ell, sir, I have had but very few criminal cases, and those are simply assault and battery, or something of that kind; petty criminal offenses. I have committed one or two men to jail, but that is about the amount of it. Q. In certain classes of cases you have a right' to determine the puiiishment for criminal offenses, and in others to bind them over to a higher court? — A. Yes, sir; to l)ind them over to the grand jury of the district. Q. Of what class of cases do you have final jurisdiction? — A. Well, simply misdemeanors, or something of that kind. In all cases of felonies we bind them over to the grand jury. In civil cases our juris- NEW statp:h()()D bill. 57 diction goes in all eases to one hundred dollars — a little less than one hundred dollars. Q. The records in this docket of yours are all kept in EnoH.sh, are they noti* — A. Yes, sir. Q, Do you have authority to commit persons to jail who are con- victed of misdemeanors^ — A. Yes, sir. Q. What is the limit of a jail sentence which you may imposed— A. About six months, I think, is the limit of my jurisdiction^ — impris- onment of six months in the county jail. And further the witness saith not. A. J. Crawford, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator Dillingham. Q. You may state 3^our name to the connnittee. — A. My name is A. J. Crawford. Q. You live in this city, of course? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How long have you been police judge here? — A. I have hekl this office for eight years. Q. Have you your record here? — A. Yes,. sir. There is the record there which' will show every case tried in the police court for live years. PREVALENCE OF CRIMES. Q. Have you sufficient familiarity with your record so that you can state to us the various crimes that are charged and the proportion in which each one prevails? — A. Well, sir, we have had — there is court here twice a year, and we have about fifteen to seventeen felonies bound over to the grand jury each term, and perhaps two-thirds of them are convicted. Q. And of those cases which are felonies, Avhat are the cases? — A. Well, larcenies from stores and shops, and a few cases of assault to kill, and some few burglaries. These l)urglaries and larcenies are entirely from the foreign population — the wandering population going- through to the coast and going back. Burglaries by natiAC people, or people residing here, are very rare. We have a few assault to kill cases among our people here. Carrying concealed weapons is almost entirely unknown. FEW ARRESTS. Q. Are assaults the most frequent class of cases? — A. Yes, sir. With five or six thousand people here during the whole of the fair week I do not think we had l)ut a few arrests. Q. Al)out what is the number of cases determined by you in the course of a year? — A. Well, they average about one hundred and twenty-live, or fifty a month — that is, everything. There are a great man}^ of these — that is, these tramps — that come through, and we pick them up to rush them through, Q. Y^ou have jurisdiction of civil cases, too? — A. Yes, sir; up to $100. Q. And how many civil cases? — A. We get very few in our court. There is a case of "murder there; the district attorney drew up an indictment of murder in the third degree. It was really an accident — a little bov ran under a vehicle during the fair. 58 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. Do you koop your records entirely in Eng'li.sh? — A. Oh, yes; yes. sii\ Q. What aie these nuisance cases here? — A. Those people were up for ui'inatino' in the alleys and streets. Q. There is one here for keeping" a public nuisance. — A. He had ids premises in an unsanitary condition. NO CASE FOR CARKYINO CONCEALED WEAl'ONS. Q. You have an orderly community, 1 believe? — A. I have not had a case before me for carrying- concealed weapons, I do not think, for a 3^ear. We have a very orderly conmiunitv. And further the witness saith not. William J. Oliver, iirst having- been duly sworn, testitied as follows: By Senator Dillingham: Q. You mav state vour name to the committee. — A. Mv name is William J. Ol'iver. Q. You reside in this city !■ — A. At the Indian school, two miles and a half north of the city. Q. Are you connected wdth the school!^ — A. Yes, sir; 1 am clerk of the school. Q. Well, tell us alwut it; whom you have there, and how many, juid so forth, — A. We usually have about from 3U() to 3:^5. Q. And of what tribe ^— A.' Mostly Puel)lo and Navaho. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. What percentage of the Pueblo children have you, probabl}-? — A. Eighty-five per cent of them are Pueblo. Q. Well, what percentage of the entire Pueblo tribe have you of the children of school age? — A. I could not answer that. extent of the pueblo. Q. You do not know what the extent of the tribe is? — ^A. Well, thev include so many — there are so many — they have branches of the Pueblo that are scattered all over the Territory. The Indians that live collectively in villages are styled Pueblo, and there so many of them in the Territory. Q. Have you any idea how many there are of those? — A. No, sir. Q. Have you any idea of how many Navaho you have in this Territory? — A. Well, they are on the reservation and I could not tell 3'ou. Q. And you have some of the Navaho children there? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Are there any Indian schools in the Territor}", outside of this school? — A. Yes, sir; we have one at Santa Fe and one at Dolce; it is a ))()arding- school; both are ])oarding- schools. what the INDIANS ARE TAUGHT. Q. Wliat do you teach the children at school? — A. We teach them English, and take them through the school to about the eighth grade of this school, and we teach them industries — carpentering, black- NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 59 .smithino-, .shoemaking, tailorino-, and harness making, and for the girls the domestic sciences. Q. How long since this school was established here^--A. About .sixteen 3'ears. (^. Have you some idea of what these Indians do after they leave schools — A. Yes, sir; we keep track of some of tliem, and a number of them are doing very well. Some of them are there as employees, and are doing nicel}\ SOME GO BACK TO THE BLANKET. Q. Do they go back to the ])lanket in great numbers? — A. Some of them do; ves, sir. Q. What kind of citizens do they make? — A. Very good, some of them, while some of those who have gone back to the blanket have not turned out very well. Q. What do they follow after they leave the school — the Puel)los? — A. Pretty largely agriculture and stock raising. Q. And the Navajo? — A. They roam about over the re.-^ervation with their sheep, and when they can get any water thev raise a little corn. INDIAN CHILDREN APT SCHOLARS Q. Are these Indian children apt scholars? — A. Many of them are, among the Navaho. By Senator Dillingham: Q. Did you do anything for the census? — A. Yes, sir; I enumerated for the school. Q. For the school, simply? — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. C. F. Myers, first having been duly sworn, testitied as follows: By Senator Dillingham: Q. You mav state vour ntmie to the committee. — A. Mv name is C. F. Myers. ' ' Q. And your official position is what? — A. Mayor of Albuquerque. Q. Since' when? — A. Since the term of office commenced, in April this year. Q. And how long have vou been a citizen here? — A. Since May, 1SS9; the 18th day of May. " ALBUQUERQUE AS A CITY. Q. We would like to have you, in 3'our own way, make a statement about your city — its character and growth, and anything that suggests itself to you as l)eing important. — A. It is what you might call strictly an American city, as it is. We have eight aldermen, two from each ward. We have a city clerk, as a matter of course, and treasurer, and so on. Q. And a population of what? — A. It is. I judge, between seven and eight thousand. I think the ballot was al)out thirteen hundred votes this last election. (30 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q, And the proportion of Americans? — A. In the city here there are very few Mexicans; very few, indeed. Q. Is the old town part of the cit}'? — A. It is not; no, sir. (^. How laro-e is the old town? — A. Well, 1 can hardly say; it is a .small place, thouo'h. Senator. I should say that there may be a thou- sand inhabitants over there, but they are almost entirely Mexicans. There are more Mexicans there; a few German gardeners, and a few French people, but the majority of them are Mexicans. MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS. Q. (lO along- with your statement as to your city. -A. We conduct our aliairs here very much on the order that they do back East. We have waterworks here, owned by a corporation. We have our light plant, both electric and gas, owned by a corporation. We have granted a franchise foi' an electric street railway. They have put up a thousand dollars for the franchise granted by the city council. We have our city physician. We have four ward schools here, with two additional for the overflow pupils in two wards. We have a central high school and we have a university. We have, I think, 1,250 pupils enrolled at the beginning of the school year, in September. We have a bonded indebtedness in the city of 1^168, (>()0. Sixty-live thousand dollars of that indebtedness, if I remember right, was bonded in 1889 at 5 per cent. BONDED INDEBTEDNESS. Q. What was that money used for? — A. It was used to take up old indebtedness, our old scrip and outstanding debts, and the same year there was another issue of bonds made at 4 per cent for |33,0()0. Last 3'ear we refunded some ^.50,0UO for building a sewer s^^stem in the city. The original bonds that were issued for the building of the sewer — I think it was in 1891 — they were 6 per cent bonds, and we replaced them last yqhv at 4 per cent. Last year we also issued $15,000 worth of bonds at 5 per cent for defraying our portion of the expense of building our portion of this viaduct acrosss the tracks. The Santa Fe bore the other half. Q. What is your assessed valuation?— A. $2,100,000. Q. And what per cent of that would vour entire indebtedness amount to?— A. Our indebtedness is $ltJ3,000 as compared to $2,100,000, TAX RATE, (^. How is your property assessed here; at full value? — A. No, sir; it is not assessed at full value. The rate of taxation in the city here — I am not postive, but I think it is $0.1415 for city purposes. Of course there is a portion of that goes for the support of our public-school system. Q. What is the entire rate of taxation ? — A. Territorial, county, and municipal, $5,815, I have given these matters consideral)lc study since I have been in there. Q. Do 3'ou have a lire department? — A. Yes, sir; we have. We have a very well e(|uipped department. We have no steam engines; we have sufficient pressure from the plugs. Q. Do \'ou have a chemical engine? — A. Yes, sir; sve have a chem- NEW stat?:hood bill. 61 icsil eii*>ino. We have a captain of the fire department and two assistants; and tlie chairman of the tire committee of the council acts as chief. INDUSTRIES. Q. What are the industries of tlie city ( — A. The big- bulk is the Santa Fe shops; they employ a great number of men. We have a planing mill here, a small one, of small capacity; we have two flour- ing mills; we have a large brewery here; an ice factory. Of course we have our light from our gas works and our waterworks, and we are now buikling a large woolen mill; they are putting it up at the present time. Q. I notice you have good stores in the city. Where does the trade come from? — A. From all about the country. I am in the hardware business m^'self, and do a jobbing business. We send goods west of here as far as ^^'illiams, Ariz.; we ship stuff south of here as far as Silver City. That is just about 275 or 280 miles south of here, and of course there are all these towns along the road between these points. I do business, and, in fact, all the jobbers here do business up as far as Colorado — just across the line into Colorado on the north. ELEMENTS FOR FUTURE GROWTH. Q. If you have in mind any elements which you think will make for the future growth of the city you may state those. — A. A^'ell. they are now building a line of railroad, called the Santa Fe Central — in fact, the road, as I understand, the road is all graded that will connect the Denver and Rio Grande at Santa Fe with the Rock Island at Tor- rence, N. Mex., and it is the intention to connect with it about 32 miles east of here, which will put us in connection with the Rock Island. The Santa Fe is going to build a cut-off from the line at Roswell to connect with a point on the Atlantic and Pacific, and that will materially aid the growth of this town. This railroad building will require a great deal of money, and much of that will find its way to this cit}'. THE SURROUNDING COUNTRY. Q. Tell us about the surrounding countrv for 20 or 30 miles; what is the occupation of the inhabitants? — A. It is almost entirely wool, outside of mining. They bring their wool in from points east 00 miles, and northwest of us here from towns as far as 75 or 80 miles, by wagons. I have seen one wagon-train load of 17<>,000 pounds from one producer. It is veiy largely a grazing country, mostly for sheep. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. What is the extent of the farming, grain and grass raising, and so on? — A. It is limited. It is almost entirely on this Rio Grande Valley, and it is only limited owing to the fact that there is so few engaged in it. I know of several French and German people engaged in that line that do well. Q. Was there anv wheat raised in this coiuitrv^ — A. Yes. sir; lots of it. Q. With or without irrigation? — A. With irrigation; our wheat raised here at a point 32 luiles south, at a point called Belin, took the first prize at the World's Fair in 1893. 62 NKW STATKIIOOD KILL. Q. Do you i-iiise any without irrioation at all? — A. 1 do not know; I have an idea that they do in the mountains, where they have these little streams, and the soil is more or less dani]) all the time. My ideas al>out statehood are that if we ac(|uii'e statehood it will hrino- us an influx of American people. It will hrino- lots of capital lu'i-e to open U)) our min(>s. We have lots of oood minino- property her(>. and capital will not conn^ in since we are ii Territory. AMKKICAX POPULATION. Q. What is the extent of the American population, or all of the population outside of Mexican, in this Territory^ — A. I could not tell you how many; the census will show. You take the town of Silver City, below here, it is entirely American; you may take our city here, it is entirely American; you take the city of Las Vet>-as, it is entirely American, while the old town is almost exclusively Mexican. You take the city of Las Cruc(\s, only a great many Mexicans there. Demino- is almost entirely American; Gallup is almost entirely American. Q. Do you have nuich of a transient population? — A. No, sir. Q. But the country people are mostl}' Mexicans? — A. Yes, sir; a great deal more. There are very few Americans engaged in sheep raising has been asked; there are lots of theuL You take east of here, in that Chilili country, and it is entirely Scotch and Americans in the sheep business. DEVELOPMENT OF COUNTRY. By Senator Dillinghan: _Q. But the thing that you have in mind is the opening of the mines ^— A. Yes, sir; and the opening and development of the country. You take this Rio Grande lliver, they can go up to a point up here some 8H or 4(1 miles, and where they come to bed rock, the bottom of the river, and they put in a large dam and catch the water. You take it ])elow that dam wh(Mi it liows through this sandy soil, this sandy country, the water goes through and is below the surface. And the company that started that figured that they could dam the river up there, at what they call the Rocky Canyon, they could bring the water down over this mesa here, and irrigate the whole valley here. We think that we can only get the capital to do that hy statehood. You take our gardeners over in the old town, when the river is dry they have their pumps and engines. They have a square well down" to the river— down to the level of the water", and they ha\e always got a crop, while the Mexicans who do not do that have lio crops. The Mexicans here, of course, the big majority of them, are illiterate; that is, the older class of them. We have some of them among the better class of peo])le that are as bright and well educated as the average citizen. The trouble with old timers is that they had no school facilities. Up to 1880, when the Sante Fe road came up here, they were cut off from the world, and they had no chance at the schools" until we got the railroad here. And the young peoi)le in the Mexican families grow- ing up. we have the schools in all the little hamlets, and the church, and 1 am satisfied it is only a few years luitil you will find the young Mexicans growing up here, they will l)e all ri"ght. We have as good NEW STATEHOOD 151 LL. 63 srhools here in the eity as we have anywliere. I was raised in St. Louis myself, and 1 have a boy in the middle of the high sehool here who is 14: years old, and I went baek there last year \yith him to visit, and some of his eousins there was talking- a])out being in the ninth grade, and they were not as far advanced as he was, and he was ''josh- ing" them al)out it. "the MEXICAN.'' Q. Are these Mexicans slow a))oiit paying th(Mr taxes? Do they object to that^ — A. I do not know about that. I know the county is on a cash basis. They did not think of taxing themselves for school purposes until the Americans came in. I do not know about that, but I suppose that is about right. They catch on to the Americans' ways and they pattern after them. When I Hyst came here in 1889— since that time there has been a wonderful improvement in the Mexicans. Q. Do you do any credit business? — A. Yes. .sir; lots of it. " ' MEXICANS '' TRUSTWORTHY. Q. Do you tind the Mexicans trustw^orthy ?— A. Yes, sii-. There is one thingabout the Mexican, as a rale; he will, as a rule, pay his bills. Of course you will find lilack sheep among them, but most of the mer- chants here would rather trust a Mexican than an American. Men will get jobs here in these shops, and they will be here for a month, or six weeks, or six months, or a .vear, and they go away, and they will have l)ills here, and, as the l)oys say, somebody is holding the sack. I have sold them thousands of dollars worth of goods, and they have never yet made an objection to making a bill of sale for whatever they got, a wagon or a farming imi)lement of some kind, for what they get, making a cash payment and giving a bill of sale for the balance. They come up and pay, and the majority of them will take an American's word for most anything. I have got peojile on my books that pay their accounts every six months, or once a year, and they never ask for a I)ill for anything. They will come in when they sell their wool or anything and say, "What is my bill?" and I will tell them, and they "will say, "Here is a check," or "Here is the gold for it." And further the witness saith not. STATEMENT OF THOMAS HUGHES, OF ALBUQUERQUE, N. MEX. Thomas Hughes, one of the persons selected by Delegate Rodey to make a statement before the committee on behalf of the Territory of New Mexico, appeared before the committee and made the following statement: I will only take up your time for a few^ minutes. I am not a public speaker. 1 am a newspaper man. I came down here in 1881 at the request of Governor Wallace and Governor Fremont, of Arizona, for the purpose of making a State. I had published a newspaper in Kansas for a number of years, and was prominent in politics in that State. I was Presidential elector in 1876 in the lirst district of that State. I came here in 1881, and have published a newspaper ever since. 1 am well acquainted with every county in the Territory. 1 have been in every Republican convention in this Territor}^ since 1881. We have some good men and some bad men; some intelligent and some igno- rant. We have built up here in this city — we have built up a dozen towns in the Territories that compare with the towns of any other State in the Union. 1 think that this city will compare with any town of its size in the United States. 64 NKVV STATEHOOD BILL. TEKKITORIAL EXHIBITIONS. In 1S81 1 ostablishod the Territorial fair here. 1 promoted it and have been with it ever since. I liave held successful exhibitions every year and have cultivated a friendly feeling- and a State pride in the jx'oph^ until we have exhibitions now that will compare with any in the West. In fact, we have larger exhibitions here than they have in Denver. In the matter of railroads, of course, not having state- hood, w(^ can not get capital here, and until we had this movement for statehood we could not get any railroads. Senator Andrews and others, of Pennsylvania, feeling that the prospects for statehood were good, kept in on the railroads. We have English papers and Spanish papers in every county in the Territory, both Democratic and Repub- lican. In this county we have pu])lic schools in every voting precinct. English is taught just the same as in any of the States. Spanish is taught as a side issue, as German would be in any State in the Union. AVe had German in the i)ul)lic schools of Kansas as a study there. Al)out the native people here, I wish to say that 1 iiave never met in my life a more conservative people. There is no corruption among the people of this Territory, or native people, unless a corrupt poli- tician gets into them and corrupts them. TERRITORIAL POLITICS. 1 was in the Pomeroy campaign in Kansas, and 1 know what political corruption is. I have been a member of the legislature since 1887. I never knew a member to receive money for anything. If a native of this Territory likes you, and if they have confidence in you, you can get almost everything with them, and 1 will say this about them in politics, that in my twenty-two years experience I have never had one of them to lie to me in politics. If the leaders say in a precinct here that it is going to come out so and so, it is going to come out that vfay. I have been the chairman of this committee here for years, and I never paid a Mexican a cent for his vote in this Territory. They are a quiet, peaceable people. You must remember that up to 1865 the peons of this Territory, which was possibly two-thirds of the population, ^vere practically slaves. Lincoln's emancipation proclamation emancipated them. We have two or three hundred of them here working in the railroad shops. They are faithful workers. Forty or tifty of them are working in the woolen mills. They are not energetic. They do not (-are about getting rich like Americans. They are perfectly will- ing to let things go easy. They never suggest anything in the" legis- lative assembly: they are perfectly willing to let anything go through. If you g(>t a bill through and the next session you want to amend it, they say nothing, but go ahead and vote for the' amendment. THE FIIJST PUBLIC SCHOOL BILL. In 1887 I had the honor of introducing into the legislature the lirst public-school ))ill. It was beaten, but the next session it was passed. We have in this town as good a school svstem as any American town in the country. The school system is tirst class. The only trouble is we are growing so rapidly that we have not enough buildings. Q. You made the teaching of English compulsory, did you not?— A. Yes, sir: and the attendance. This last campaign we went through NEW STATP^HOOD lULL. 6 the couiitiy and wo seldom had to use an interpreter. This younger generation understands English as well as I do. We ought to have statehood. We feel to make a State is a laudable ambition and pride. I was living in Kansas when it was made a State, and t-ame down here with the sole puri)()se of building a State. The building of a State is one of the greatest works that any man can do, and we fail to see why any Senator of the United States should op})ose us in the least. We ask you to help us, and we will help ourselves. We are helping our- selves. We have never asked a cent from anyone in all the misfor- tunes of the West. When the wars came up. we have done our duty. I sent my oldest boy to Cuba as a sergeant in Koosevelt's regiment, and at the time I thought alxnit it, and thought J am only half an American citizen. Why should 1 send my boy ^ Hut that spirit of pride and loyalty to country made us do that. We are trying to build these people up. We Irivc schools, universities, and public libniries. We have everything they have in any city of the Union. As far as straight, downright interest is concerned, 1 think we Avill compare with the rest of creation. FOUR PER CENT BONUS. Our bonds are at 4 per cent — the Ijor.ds of the city and county — all 4 per cent bonds. We had to issue bonds in building this town to build sewers, and court-houses, and jails, and everything of that kind. Our rate of taxation is very low in comparison to the assessment. Ever3^body ligures their assessment as low as possible. We have a defective system, which we have not improved. I drew up a bill four years ago and passed it and afterwards found it was very defective. Now. gentlemen, 1 have nothing to say further than this: 1 have lived here and dealt with these people. 1 have run a newspaper — Republican — but I have not a Democratic enemy in this town. I can carry this county on any proposition by 3,6(»(» majority, and 1 appeal to you to give us statehood, and we will give you a State that will be one of the very best in the Union. We have no heavy debt — Terri- torial, county, Or city. We are self-supporting in everyway. We think the valley here' is as fertile as the Nile, and it will support as large a population. All we need is capital, and that will bring us schoolhouses and churches and, every other element of civilization. 1 do not know wliat further I can say. 1 am willing to answer any (luestion that you may care to put to me. We want to be a self- governing people. We want the privilege of representation in Wash- ington to help develop our resources, and we have liere that American pride that we want to do business for ourselves just like all the people from the thirteen colonies up. I presume that statehood will cost more for the tirst four or five years, looking at it from a selfish standpoint, ])ecause my taxes will be increased. But this question is above taxa- tion; the question of statehood is wdth us. It is above all financial considerations. Some ]^eople have feared that we would be a Mexican State. They thought Colorado w^ould l)e a Mexican State when it was admitted, aiid now tliere are but a few only in the southern part of the State, and all they do is to elect my friend Borillo to the State senate. They are a good, quiet people, and that is about all they do. H s B 5 66 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. STATEMENT OF WILLIAM B. CHILDERS, OF ALBUQUERQUE, N. MEX. Hon. William K. Childers, one of the persons selected by Delegate Rode}' to appear before the committee and make a statement on behalf of the Territoiy relative to the admission of the Teri'itory to statehood, appeared before the committee and made the following statement: The Chairman. You may proceed before the committee in j^our own way. Mr. Childers. Mr. Rodey did me the honor of selecting me as one of the people to appear before the committee. We have our ideas about the question of statehood as any Senator may have upon any question. 1 have lived in New Mexico for twenty-two years. I am now 48 years of age, and I have cast one vote for an elector for Presi- dent in my life and helped to count the ballots in one precinct. I did not think at that time and I do not think noW that that vote was a mis- take. That vote was cast in the city of St. Louis for ]\lr. Tilden. I am a native of Tennessee. I came to New Mexico with all my predi- lections in favor of the Democratic party. My preceptor and teacher was John Randolph Tucker, of Virginia, and of course you can under- stand that early prejudices might have made a Democrat out of me and probably did. I came to New Mexico and was quite active in politics and have been ever since. That I have been active I do not think it is necessary to apologize for. I was at one time exceedingly active in behalf of the Democratic party. I was chairman of the Democratic Territorial committee and in 1890 made a tight against statehood in New Mexico. In 1889 the tight was made, as 1 remember now, as Mr. Harrison's Administration was just coming into power. legisi>ature passed bill for statehood. Immediately before Mr. Harrison w'as inaugurated the legislature had met. It was overwhelmingly Repu])lican. with a Democratic gov- ernor. There were a great man}- contests and finally the Republicans got a majority of two-thirds and they passed a bill for statehood before the constitutional convention. There was a bitter contest between them and the Democrats offered to concede to the Republicans one majority, but they would not agree on that apportionment for delegates .to the constitutional convention. The result was that the Democrats did not participate in the convention. STATEHOOD CONSTITUTION REJECTED BY 8.O00. The constitution was adopted by the convention, which was rejected at the polls by 8,000 majority. Not until 189(i were my relations with the Democratic party particularly changed. In 189f; I was a delegate to the Indianapolis convention and voted at that nomination for Palmer and Buckner. Of course we did not know "where we were at." At that time 1 Avas encumbered with the office of United States district attorney. I was appointed in June, 189(), by Mr. Cleveland to the office which ought to have been given me in 1893. I know that more or less this matter is a political question and I make this statement for that reason. Whatever compliments may have been paid me by ]Mr. Rodey — and in connection with that I refer you to the fact that a commission as NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 67 United Sttites attorney was issued me by Mr. Cleveland and another one by Mr. McKinley. Since 1808 I have been United States district attorney for New Mexico. Prior to that time I had been actively eno-ag-ecl in the practice of law. 1 think that 1 am pretty well known and have had experience^ in most of the counties of the Territory except in some of the remote counties. Though 1 have never had any business in them, I think I know something- about the general condi- tions of the Tei-ritorv. FORMERLY OPPOSED STATEHOOD. Now, having made that statement, I may say that for a long time I thought that it was a hazardous thing for us to have statehood, on account of the peculiar conditions of our population; but I have come to this conclusion after, as I think, years of consideration, and after having been on the other side of the question — in ISilO the platform was not in favor of statehood, and I was on that platform. Of course the Congressional history of it is not at all necessary for me to refer to. So that while I stood in that convention, it has very often been presented to me that that was the best thing for us to do. Now it strikes me in two ways. Of course you can understand that a man who has been as actively engaged in the practice of hiw. as I have, under- stands all about the ditferent things regarding the jury system, and having as wide a personal acquaintance as I have had in that way and in a professional and a personal and social way, that 1 have souie knowledge of the conditions in New Mexico. It strikes me that the statehood question presents itself in two ways. One proposition is. What would be the effect upon ourselves here in New Mexico? The second proposition is. What eflect wall it have upon the relations of New Mexico with the other States of the Union ? TAXES HIGH. It is said our taxes are high. They are; there is no question about that. I think a complete answer to that is that the new countries, or countries undergoing anything like rapid development, where you have ambitious comnuniities, they are always apt to discount the future and the result is higher taxation. They may say our system is not what it should be. I am perfecth' willing to say that the burdens of sus- taining State government, if we ever have one, must rest upon the new blood that is coming to this Territory and invested interests in the Territory and upon the people who are in the habit of paying- taxes. The history of the Mexican people is that they are not in the habit of paying direct taxes. MEXICAN TAX SYSTEM. Not until 187(3 was there any taxes directly upon the real estate in New Mexico, and in old Mexico to-day they do not do it. It requires somewhat of an education of these people and somewhat of an enforce- ment to get them to understand why they should pay. I would not claim that our tax laws are ideal by any means. They are not even ideal anywhere, in fact. It is one of the most difficult problems that anybod}^ has to deal with. But I think we are making a great deal of 68 NEW STATEH(M1D BILL, headway in that respect. I can not say that we are (overtaxed in the city of All)ii([uer((ue. The rate of taxation seems iii<>li, unquestion- iihW. When you ask about 4 per cent and a fraction or 5 per cent taxation upon real estate, it unquestionably seems hig-h; but when you come to look at the actual transactions between the owners of prop- erty as to what it should be set out, you have to take oli' about two- thirds of the rate in order to put it down where it should be. MEXICAN POPULATION AND JURIES. Now, how will we govern ourselves^ As we exist to-day and as we have existed for forty or fifty yeai's, if anybody has a fear of the domi- nation of the Mexican people in the Mexican counties where the Mexi- can population dominates, I uuist say that they make a very fair concession — more, in fact, than the American population is entitled to in the county offices and members of the legislature. And still they have had an opportunity to pass repressive laws if they wanted to, but which they have never done. They assess taxes when they happen to 1)6 in the majority, and collect them and spend the money. What more they can do I do not know. And then Ave come to our courts. It is impossil^le not to hold court with Mexican juries. It is absolutely impossible in some counties of this Territory not to hold court with Mexican jurors — jurors who can not speak the English language. It has been so. It is not worth while for you and me or anybod}' else to ask the question as to who is to blame for that — as to why that con- dition of affairs should have continued ever since the cession of this country to the United States by Mexico. THE COURTS. Nevertheless that is a fact, that where there is a voting population of l,oUO or 2,000 people in the county they are almost cxclusivelv Mexi- can. There were originally three judges and three courts. Subse- quently Congress enacted a law authorizing the Territorial legislature to establish courts in counties — district courts for the counties. The United States courts, as we call them here — they are not United States courts, strictly speaking, but for convenience out here we call them that. Originally there were three courts held in the three places, and everything was tried there. Sul)sequently, after this law was passed, the legislature authorized the holding of courts in each of the counties. Whenever a county was organized, the legislature authorized the hold- ing of courts to try cases involving the laws of the Territory and the criminal laws of the Territory, and the subject-matter of which was under the laws of the Territory. I think it has been the same thing practically as the development of the courts in the last twenty years. Now the jurors of the United States court are drawn from the district. We now have five judges and live districts. THE .lURORS. The jurors are not drawn from any particular county. In the dis- trict courts in the counties the jurors are drawn from the counties. If we were made a State we might have Federal courts held in prob- NEW STATEHOOD HILL. 69 ably not more than two places and possibly not more than one in the State. Now, that rehit(\s moi-e to the cpiestion of the ett'eet upon the safety of property as investments than anything else. The eti'eet of that would be in a rapidly developing country, more than in any of the P^astern countries, that "litigation involving civil rights would natu- rally go to the Federal courts and the jury w^ould be drawn there, the 'suits having been brought there in the first place, or transferred there under the laws authorizing the removal of cases from the State courts to the Federal courts. So that the jurors in the Federal courts could be drawn from the whole State or from the whole district. They would be drawn under the United States statutes just as they are drawn in any State in the country. That statute would provide that the judge or the clerk of the court and one other person of an oppo- site political affiliation to his own should select a certain number of names and put them in the box without regard to their political affili- ations, and they would serve as jurors, and in that way I think we will have as good jurors as any State in the Union. My experience justifies me in saying that. The judge who selects his clerk would be appointed by the President of the United States, and as the clerk would be selected by him, there would be eliminated from that an}^ consideration of a political nature. It seems to me, and I think any of you gentlemen who are, as all of you probably are, engaged in the practice of laww^ould readily under- stand, that any case involved in the matter of investment in the coun- try would go to the Federal courts and would be absolutely free from prejudice. I do not want to draw any comparisons between our Terri- tory and Texas, but I know- it to be a fact that persons desiring to bring a damage suit — for instance, a personal injury suit — against a railroad will move from this Territory to Texas and bring his suit in El Paso, for instance. MEXICAN .JURIES FAIR. Now, the fairest juiy 1 have ever known in these cases is a Mexican. I refer to that because some persons say a fair verdict will not be returned because a corporation is interested. Now, my own experi- ence has been that they — and of course they are people that are sus- ceptible to influence, much more so than the sturdy Anglo-Saxon would be. A man's citizenship does not depend upon his ability to write and 1 do not believe a better class of jurors could l)e found than the Mexican jury. My experience in the pnu-tice of law had been somewhat limited l)efore I came to New Mexico. 1 spent a few years in the city of St. Louis, and have tried cases outside of New Mexico very frequentl3% and 1 find that they are fair jurors, and even when they do not under- stand a word of English; but the consideration they would bring to bear upon a verdict would surprise a person who is not acquainted with them and has not had experience with them. Of course in this western country a man who has anything to do with the courts runs up against a hard proposition, Init the hardest propositions I have had have been in the American counties. I have run up against them once or twice since I have been United States district attorney. And so, I think, I have spoken very briefly, and if I have been able 70 NEW statp:hood bill. to conve}' to vou in iii.v way what the i-onditions of the courts wovild be Avith this addition if we could get the United States courts in the Territory— if we had one now, if it were po.s.sible under our Territorial system— it would be an immense advantage to us. TENDENCY IX JUDICIAL APPOINTMENTS. ■ Now. if VOU will pardon me a minute. You take our judicial system, from a standpoint of the judges that we have, if you will permit me to say it. after twenty years' experience, the best judges we have had in New Mexico, the niost satisfactory judges, the most satisfactory not only to the people of New Mexico but to the Department of Justice in Washington, have been people appointed from the people of New Mexico, There had not been a judge appointed in New Mexico from the people of New Mexico until Cleveland's tirst adndnis- tration. The tendency now is to appoint all officers for the Tei-ritory from the Territory. I think that since 1884 both Democratic and Republican platforms have declared in favor of appointing officers from the Territory. We have been able to etiect that, and I think it has been recognized as a rule of justice. I think it is lit and proper to appoint a man from the comnumity in which he was to serve to any kind of a position, and I think it has been a benefit all the time. 1 do not mean by what I have said about that to reflect upon some of the \ery excellent men who have been appointed from the outside and Avho have come here. While they had not been residents of the Territory before they were appointed^ some of them stayed and some of them did not. They were free from any prejudice in the wa}^ thev discharged the duties of their offices, but the aV)solute viciousness of the system is something I can not get over. SUPREME COURT. When 1 tirst came here w^e had three judges who held district courts. We have five now. They do the business of the district courts. They try all the cases that are tried in the district courts. From them an appeal lies to the supreme court of the Territory, and they are mem- bers of that court. I do not care how good judges may be that may be selected, I do not think it is right to make a judge the judge of his own case on appeal. By Senator Dillingham: Does the judge who tries the case as a district court sit in the hear- ing in the supreme court on appeal? — A. No, sir; he is not allowed to do it under the law of the Territory, but I can show you in the printed records of the Territorial courts where it has been done. It is not done now. Now% for instance. I will refer you to the State of New York. 1 remember of having a conversation, in discussing this veiy question, with a United States Senator from New York in discussing a bill which we think would give us appeal from the courts of the Ter- ritory to the United States court of ai)peals. In several cases involv- ing ^^5,000 or over appeal lies directly to the United States Supreme Court. The system is what I am talking aliout. I do not think there is any scandal connected with the present judges on the bench, but I do say that it is inevitable that this proposition of '-you tickle me and NEW STATEHOOD BILL, 7l I'll tickle you" can not be helped. As far as the nisi prius courts are concerned, I think that justice is administered fairh^ and honestly by the present judiciary of New Mexico. ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE HONEST. 1 think it would compare fairly with the administration of justice and the conduct of the courts in most of the States in the country under State government, but I think no system would be perfect unless 3^ou had a district appellate tribunal. I do not want to be understood as making- any kind of an insinuation against the personal^ integrity or abilit}^ of the present gentlemen on the bench. I think we are perfectly capat)le of sustaining government, so far as an}'^ tax upon our resources are concerned. I have never seen the time since I have been here where it seemed to me that the Territory was more upon the upgrade and that it had more of a prospect of innnediate prosperity before it. I do not claim the same amount of population that some of my friends in the Territory do. I like to be more accu- rate in the statement of facts. I think we have enough to entitle us to statehood. I do not think it is necessary to claim more than we have. OPINION ON CENSUS. I will take the census for it and stand upon the census. I think possi])ly that we may have a little more than the census gives us. I have a little doubt, too, that we have a little more. I know that it is somewhat difficult to get the population in a sparsely-settled country like this. We have a railroad system just beginning. The Rock Island was here last year. We have the Santa Fe proposing to build through now from Roswell east. I have not been to Roswell for a good many years, but I understand from reliable people that they have a population of three or four or live thousand people. 1 have that from the people of Pecos Valley. That was in the last few months. 1 understand that within the last year that country has undergone a veiy considerable development, and there is a great deal of population tioocling into a section of country like that, although the development may be prospective, if it is immediate prospective, and that I think is really the cause of the influx of population in that country. IRRIGATION AT ROSWELL. The only time 1 was ever there in my life was eight or ten 3'ears ago. They have a line irrigation system. As tine as you can tind in the country — in Phoenix or anywhere in California. It was very slow for them to put in that immense investment of capital and the actual opening up of the country was ver}' slow. The irrigation com- pany went into the hands of a receiver and the railroad built in connec- tion with it went into the hands of a receiver. I think that is the actual condition of things there at this time. There are other rail- roads l)eing built in the Territory, and we have immediate prospect of one being built from Bisbee up. The western part of the Territorv has great resources, but it is absolutely undeveloped. I know of mines over there where the people have leased them and the operators 72 NEW STATEHOOD HILL. havo htiulcfl their oiv T<» or 80 milos ))y wtigoii. Anybody who was contestino- stutohood miu'lit say we had better wait until these railroads are t)uilt and th'^ population hiis increased, but I think statehood will accelerate thes(> tliinos. My own experience is that it will accelerate the brino-ing- of capital into New Mexico. (3nly the other day 1 was talking to a man who said he had erected in Raton a block of* buildings at a cost of $25,000 or $80,000, and he said he wanted to ])orrow $10,000 on it, and he had it all paid for and he had the arranoenients made to get the money of a Jewish friend in the East (I think he l)elonged to that rac(^ himself), and they wrote to him and said they had forgotten it was a Territory, and they did not want to invest any money in a Territory. That man was a man back East from whom this man bought goods. INVESTMENT IN TERRITORIES. I think that has a great etiect upon the growth and prosperity of the Territory. I know that from that standpoint some people would not consider" that for a moment. I know I have been East man}' times and I would give people my card and they would say, '' Oh, yes; you live in old Mexico. ^V\vdi kind of a government do you have down there in Mexico T' Now, I have had that thing happen to me many hundreds of times. I have gone into the stores in the cities of Chicago and New York — great department stores — and ha\-e ordered goods to be sent to me here and they did not know the difference })etween old and New Mexico. I think that anybody who has had experience in the Territories north of us will know about the investment of money in these Territories when they have been admitted as States. I do not think that anv Representative in either of the Houses of CougTess, if his opinion was asked, but would say so. In 1889, when these States were admitted under the omnibus bill, some of them were undergoing a state of depression. 1 went up there in the Northwest several times in connection with a bank receivership, and they were undergoing a very great state of depression. They had it in Denver, too, but when the country began to improve they went forward and we did not. MININ(t and RAIEROADS in TERRITORY. I do not think there is any reason why a man with a shaft 10 feet on one side of a line and a thousand feet on the other could not get money to sink the 1,000-foot shaft 10 feet as easily as to sink a 10-foot shaft ^on the other side. But we can not do that because we are a Territory, an«1 on the other side of the line there is a State. If the Rock Island is going to build a road to El Paso to gt>t to ^Mexico or to the Pacific coast. I do not think we would have anything to do With that. They would be like the company that is building IIH miles of railroad from Santa Fe down to the Rock Island. No great railroad company is behind them. Senator Andrews and some people in Pitts- ))urg who have faith in this country are building it. They have not issued a l)ond and have not sold one. Of course I do not want to talk about anybody's prixate business in a case of this kind. I understand that the investment has ])een largely due to the personal eft'ort of Sen ator Andrews. The gentlemen who are interested in it are substantia' and responsible. NEW STATEHOOD BILL, 73 The road from Bisl)oo to El Paso was not Ituilt by any trunk line of railroad. I •understand that the oentlonien who are behind it are of anii)le means. They are Thelps, Dodge & Co., of New Vork. ^Ve accomplish local thino-s that have been started that way. This rail- road from El Paso, the El Paso and Northeastern, was ))uilt in the same way. i think that has a very vital l)earino- on the question of statehood. It would not to you or me. ))ut there is a sort of a feeling that when the popuhition is large we nmst be (-onsidered to have been — occupied the possessions which we have, which is not an equivocal one and the very statement that we are untit for statehood must have some etiect upon our credit abroad, and we all feel the eli'ect of that. We believe that we have had opportunities for observing it which people outside of the Territory who would take a more reasonable view of it would not have thought of. RELATIONS TO THE UNION. Coming to the other proposition — that is, our relations to the Union. What kind of people are we going to send for Representatives; and ai-e we capable, and will the people of New ^Mexico exercise the right of self-government and send to the Senate of the United States the right kind of peopled Are we a conservative people ? 1 understand we are. I understand that the people of New Mexico are as conserva- tive as any people of any group or Territory in the United States have shown themselves to be. They have their own interests at heart, and that is one of the things that lias made them largely Republican — thej' believe in protection. The condition is an argument to them. You get out and talk to them and see w hat wool was worth and what it is worth now. Now. 1 believe that these are considerations that swerve every connnunity on the face of the earth — whether you find them in New' Mexico. Pennsylvania, or South Carolina; that these considera- tions have more to do with political results in the country than any- thing else that could be suggested; and I say that on the question of any of the propositions that might come up the people of New Mexico are a conservative people and not easily led otf on any proposition. The Spanish-speaking people are naturally conservative. They are born that way. They are not in a hurry to follow after any new light or false leads that niay be given to theuL They stand generally for law and order and good government. They are peaceable people, and always have been, as a general proposition, the people who stand by law and order when any question of that kind arises. Part of what I have said suggests that reference to our relations outside of New Mex- ico is the matter of Federal relations, with reference in particular to the courts. The other part, as 1 said, would be our representation in Congress. REPRESENTATION IN CONGRESS. Now, it might not be. but I think we could select conservative men. I am satisfied of it in my own mind. 1 have heard two or three or four names mentioned in connection with the United States Senator- ship. Mr. Rodey has ])een mentioned, and Senator Andrews, and of course Mr. T. B.' Catlin has always been considered a standing candi- date for the United States Senate whenever the question of election arises. I think it would be premature to mention anj^ bod}' as a can- 74 NEW STATEHOOJ3 BILL. didate. Of course Ave have heard the names of a great many gentle- men canvassed as candidates for that position. Senator Andrews has lived here about eight years. I have known him as being in New Mexico six years. The first time I ever met the genth^man was in Hiils1)oro. and hv was engaged in mining, and that was six years ago. I do not know whether he had his voting residence here or not. I have not l)een intimately acquainted with him more than two or three years, but at least six years ago he was engaged in mining down there, ^low, as I say, I think our representation in Congress would be very respectable, and I believe it would be conservative, and I think the result of the election of United States Senators from New Mexico would not be a disappointment to the country. I think it would com- pare favorably with an}^ of the new States. That is my opinion of it. Albuquerque, N. Mex., November 15, 1902. The committee resumed hearings at the above-named place and time. C. M. Foraker, called as a witness before the committee, testified as follows: By the Chair3IAn: Q. Please state your name and age to the committee. — A. C. M. Foraker; 41 years old. Q. How long have you been in the I'erritory "t — A. It will be twent}^ years next month. Q. AVhat otticial position do you now hold i — A. United States mar- shal for the district of New Mexico. Q. And during your residence in the Territory have you been pretty well over the Territory^ — A. Yes, sir; ever}' county in it except one. COUNTRY POPULATION PRINCIPALLY MEXICAN. Q. In the country districts what is the nature of the population with respect to what language is used and as to what is called down here Mexican and American^ — A. Well, the country population is princi- pally Mexican. Q. What language do they speak? — A. Principally the Spanish language. Q. Have you been out in the course of the political campaigns down here and observed the political campaigns in the country districts? — A. Yes, sir; a great deal. Q. What is the fact as to the use of an interpreter at the meetings, or how are those conducted? — A. They always have a Spanish inter- preter. Q. Have 3'ou ])een in the conventions? — A. Y'^es, sir. INTERPRETER ALWAYS USED IN CONVENTIONS. Q. What is the fact as to the use of an interpreter in the political conventions? — A. They always use an interpreter. Q. Is that true here in Al]ni{|uerque(^ — A. Y"es, sir. NEW STATEHOOD «ILL. 75 JURY PAY ROLLS. Q. I asked you, Mv. Foniker, to submit to the coinmittec jury pa}' rolls and jury receipts of the Territor}-. We have them here before us now. — A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you be kind cnoug-h to take a sample jury pay roll, with jury receipts for each district, and make a transcript of them for the committee? — A. Yes, sir; 1 can do that. Q. 1 notice, for example, in examining- those jury pay rolls, that it shows the names of the jurors, and the names themselves show the nativity or the character of the jurors, and also, in a number of instances, that they have receipted by the making of their marks. — A. Yes, sir. There are five districts in the Territory where we hold the United States court, and we hold them twice a year. These jur}^ fees are not to each county; they are by districts. In this district there are two counties — this county and Valencia. EMPLOYMENT OF THE PEOPLE. Q. In what capacity are the people out in the countrj^ employed? — A. Why, principally, raising sheep — herders, stock growers — but their stock only consists of goats and sheep, principally. EXPENSES OF JURIES. Q. Returning to the question of the jurors, which your official duties call particularly to jouv attention, I will ask you as to the comparative heaviness of the jury expenses. What is the fact about that? — A. Well, it is with reference to what they do; the expense is very heavy for the work they perform, the duties they perform. They come in and hold a two weeks' -session, and have held as high as fort3^-three days, and returned no indictments. Q. The Department at Washington has its attention called, or directs its attention to, this whole judicial situation? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What is the fact as to the Department having had this under consideration, and that fact having been called to your attention in certain correspondence with the Department? Was not a letter writ- ten by Attorney-General Griggs to Mr. Hay, of the Territorial Com- mittee in the House, a copy of which was sent to your office? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. This is the letter, is it not [exhil)iting letter]? — A. Yes, sir. "'AMERICAN'"' COUNTRIES. By Senator Dillingham: Q. I would like to inquire about the nature of the country in the eastern part of the Territory; take it, for instance, in the neighborhood of Roswell, and north and south of there. — A. There are two or three counties in this Territory which are principally Americans, and that is around Rosw^ell, in Chaves County, and the country just south, in Eddy County. The}^ are principally Americans over there, stock raisers. Q. What is the character of the soil and industries? — A. It is very good in the valley; along the Pecos Valley there thej^ raise a great deal of alfalfa and of fine quality. 7G NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q, That is in the river bottom'^ — A. Yes, sir. Q. When you <><^t away from it, how does it compare with the country throi*i.o-h which we have come'^ — A. It is very simihir. NOTHING RAISED AWAY FROM WATER. Q. So that, o-enerally speaking, the country is o-iven up to o-razing' except in the river ])ottom? — A. Oh, yes, entirely: you can not raise anything awav from the water. Down in Grant County there is principally a stock country down there. 1 lived there sixteen years, in the cattle business, and the country is settled up with cattle men; that is, very sparsely settled, though. Q. Where is that county located? — A. In the southwestern part of the Territory; the southwestern corner. SIGNING BY MARK. By the Chairman: Q. I note, in hastily looking over the lists, that some of the jurors signed receipts for their fees with their marks. What has been your experience in this? — A. Some sign 1)y their mark and some do not. I recollect in one case, where there was a grand jury of 21, that 19 of them signed by mark, and in another case a petit jury of 21: where 21 of them signed by their mark. The letter identified by the witness, and which was read in evidence before the committee, was as follows: Department of Jcstice, WasJdngton, D. C, December 15, 1900. Hon. George W. Ray, Chairman: Coiinnitlee on the Judiciary, House of Ilejrresentativen. Sir: In compliance with the suggestion made in your letter of April 23, 1900, I have the honor to inclose herewith a draft of a bill prepared by my direction, having for its purpose the correction of the evils of the jury system in New Mexico. I also inclose a copy of a letter addressed to me on November 28, 1900, by the United States attorney for "New Mexico, explanatory of the proposed bill. The provision that jurors shall imderstand the English language is very important. Although New Mexico has been a Territory for fully lifty years, it is the ext'eption to find among the jurors selected for service in the United States courts any who can understand the English language. Consequently the (Tovernment is under heavy expense annually in the employment of interpreters. The population of the Territory is largely of Mexican descent, and they are anxious to serve as jurors, while the (so-called) American element endeavor to escape jury duty. Reference to the pay rolls of jurors in the first and second districts, composed largely of Mexicans shows that many of them arc unable to write their own names. The United States attorney is convinced that under the present law (the act of the Territorial legislature of March 16, 1899) there is much delay in completing the juries, and that the Mexican grand and petit juries willfully and often without cause prolong the term of service for which they are drawn. At the .January and September, 1899, terms at Santa Fe, the grand jury was in session twelve days each, and a total of eight indictments were returned, at a cost to the government of $1,42:3.05. The grand jury was in session two days at the April term, 1899, and four days at the November, 1899, term at Socorro, at a cost of ^1,100.80 to the govenunent, and no indictments were found. Other illustrations can be given of the heavy expense to which the United States is put in the direction indicated. This expense will be greatly reduced if, as con- templated in the inclosed draft, sutticient names are included in the venires as sub- stitutes for those who may be disqualitied or excused. I urgently recommend that the bill suggested be submitted to Congress, and that its passage be secured at the present session. Very respectfully, John W. Griggs, Attorney-General. NEW STATEHOOD KILL. 77 And further tho witness saith not. Jury pay rolls and receipts referred to by United States Marshal Foraker attached as Exibit D. At 2 o'clock [). in. the connnittee resumed the hearing- of testimony at the last above-named place and date. Abran Abeyta. first having- ))eeii duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You maj^ state your name to the coumiittee. — A. Mv name is A})ran Al)eyta. Q. You are a native New Mexican^ — A. Yes, sir; 1 was born right here. Q. How old are you? — A. Forty-one years old. Q. What is your official position? — A. I am treasurer and colh^-tor of kSocorro Coimty. Q. In issuing notices and posting notices out through the count}^ — do you do that? — A. 1 send notices to every person in the county. Q. Do vou send those notices in Spanish or English? — A. In Eng- lish. Q. Do vou post any notices? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How do you post them? — A. VYe give the notice in the news- papers and post a notice. Q, Do you do that both in Spanish and English? — A. JNo, sir; in English, We used to have some in Spanish, but we have quit that. Q. What is the population of Socorro County ? — A. It is 10,000. Q. And how many of those are Mexican'?— A. I think it is about two-thirds. BOYS ARE LEARNING ENGLISH. Q. Do the}" use the Spanish? — A. The old settlers use the Spanish, but the boys are learning English. Q. Do you say that the notices of the tax collections are made in English ? — Yes, sir. Q. And what al)out the legal notices for the probate of wills? — A. They are given in English. Q. Is that under your jurisdiction? — A. No, sir; that is under the })robate judge. Q. What is the nature of the country in Socorro County, as to the occupation of the people? — A. Well, it is farming and mining. Q. The farming is along the Rio Grande? — A. Yes, sir. Q. By irrigation ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Away from the Rio Grande, up on the mesas, the occupation is herding, is it? — A. Yes, sir; it is the largest sheep-raising county in the Territory, I think. Q. What mines have you down there? — A. Gold and silver and lead. Q. Can you name some of the mines? — A. We have the Hardscrab- ble at Magdalena. and the Kelly mine at Magdalena, and we have a good many mines in -the Morgoaaon district. Q. AVhat is the nature of those mines? — -A. They are copper and gold. Q. Have 3'ou any newspapers published in Socorro? 78 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. NEWSPAPERS. A. Yes, sir; wo have the Soeorro Chieftain: we have the San Mar- eiel. and we have El llepuhlieana, an English and Spanish newspaper. And further the witness saith not. James A. Summers, first having been duh' sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. Mv name is James A. Summers. Q. What is your position? — A. I am prol)ate clerk and recorder. Q. With regard to the printing of legal notices posted up in the court-house and other places, what is the fact as to their being printed in Spanish and English? — A. Well, the law requires LEGAL NOTICES MUST BE PRINTED IN SPANISH AND ENGLISH. Q. That they ])e printed in both languages? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And they are so printed? — A. Yes, sir: 1 have a copy here. These are filed also with the papers. Q. Are these the same [indicating copies of notice] i — A. Yes, sir; just the same thing. Q. Can you let the committee have these? — A. Yes, sir. Q. These are the notices that were posted up, one in English and the other in Spanish ? — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. And here the said notices, identified by the witness and given to the committee as evidence, were read in evidence and are attached as Exhibit PI W. E. Dame, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. State your name to the committee. — A. W. E. Dame, clerk of the district court for the second judicial district of New Mexico Territory. Q. Have 3^ou some of the dockets and records of that court here with you? — A. Yes, sir; I have. Q. Will you please furnish to the committee a certified copy of the final judgment, and order amending the same, in this case [pointing to entry in order book], wherein A])eline A. Aguirre et al. are plaintiffs and Francisco A. Sarracio et al. are defendants, and make the same a part of your testimony? — A. Yes, sir; I will furnish it at once. Further the witness saith not. And here said certified copy of said judgment and order furnished bv the last-named witness and made a part of his testimonv is attached, marked '' Exhibit F." Anastasio C. Torres, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. My name is Anastacio C. Torres. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 79 Q. You are a native New Mexican ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How old are you? — A. 1 was born in the town of Socorro, Socorro County, N. Mex. Q. How old 'are you? — A. I am 83 years old, to the best of my recollection. Q. You are the county superintendent of schools in Socorro County? — A. 1 am the ex-county superintendent and the newly elected county superintendent. 1 had a majority at the last election, but the certificate has not been issued yet. Q. How large is Socorro — I mean the town { — A. The town of Socorro contains about twenty -five hundred people, to the best of my knowledoe. Q. And the county? — A. And the county— there is a little over — between eighteen and twenty thousand people in the county. Q. How many schools in the county, outside of Socorro? — A. There was during my incumbency in office, if I am not mistaken, 44 school districts, including the one in the city of Socorro itself, all included in one district. TWO-THIRDS SPANISH-SPEAKING PEOPLE. Q. The population in the country districts is very largely Mexican, as the committee understands it, as that term is used down here? — A. In the rural districts perhaps two-thirds of tlie districts are possibly of Spanish -speaking people and one-third of English-speaking people — somewhere in that neighborhood. Q. And the language which these two classes use among themselves is their own native tongue? — A. Yes, sir. Q. The schools taught out in the country teach what branches ?--A. They teach English, or both ?]nglish and Spanish; that is the Territo- rial rule. Q. That is your statutory requirement?— A. Yes, sir; both English and Spanish, "and English; and those where they begin— where they can not have taken the English alone — they have to teach both P]ng- lish and Spanish. And further the witness saith not. H. G. Baca, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state vour name to the coinmittee. — A. M}^ name is H. G. Baca. Q. You live in Socorro?— A. Yes, sir; 1 live in Socorro. Q. You are a native New Mexican? — A. Yes, sir; I was born right there in Socorro. Q. You are a merchant there? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What is the nature of your merchandising establishment? — A. Well, I am out of the business now, and have been for the last two years, and 1 have been probate clerk of Socorro County. Q. Are you probate clerk now? — A. Yes, sir. Q. In issuing notices, legal notices, from your office, in what lan- guage are they issued? — A. In English. Q. Is it the" same in Socorro County under the law as it is under the law in this county? — A. Yes, sir. 80 NEW ST.\.TEHO()D lULL. NOTICES ISSUED IN TWO LANGUAGES. Q, Thoi! it is issued in botli lano-uaoes, and thoy aro posted up in both lanouao-es^ — A. Yes. sir; they are issued and posted up in both laiiti'uaj^es. Q. You have been in Socorro C4)unty tdl your life^ A, I have been in Texas. Q. How lono- have you been in Socorro County ^ — A. Ail my life, except two years. Q. Have you been out over the country, in the country districts in that county? — A. Never out more than two 3'ears; I have been in Texas. Q. 1 mean out in the country. — A. Oh, yes; yes, sir; 1 have been out in the country. Q. Tlie people who live out in the country are of what character, of what racial character. Mexican or American? — A. They are both. Q. What is the proportion? — A. The bio-uest proportion is natives; Mexicans. Q. What lang'uag'e do they use among- themselves? — A. Well, among- themselves the Spanish language. Q. And when these people come into town to your office to see you, what language do they use in talking to you? — A. The bigg^est part the English language. Q. The Spanish language is your original native language? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Y'^ou learned the English ? - A. Y"es, sir. Q. Y^ou speak the P^nglish with an accent now? — A. Yes, sir. Q. When these peo})le come into your office to see you, what lan- guage do they use in talking to .you? — A. We use the English language among ourselves, we Mexicans, but generall.y all the business 1 have transacted in the English language; sometimes when the}" do not talk the English we talk Spanish to them. And further the witness saith not. A. A. Sedillo, iirst having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Y'ou mav state vour name to the committee. — A. Mv name is A. A. Sedillol^ Q. Are you a native New ^Mexican? — A. Y^es, sir. Q. How old are you? — A. Twenty-seven, Q. Are you the court interpreter? — A. Well, 1 have ])een. Q. When ? — A. This last term of court, Q. The Territorial or Federal court? — A. Well, we have only one kind of court here. Q. Well, you have one court with two sides to it? — A. Well, on both sides. Q. Y'our duties consist of translating the testimony of witnesses to the jury and the court? A. Yes, sir. Q, The argjjnients of counsel to the jurj' ? — A, Y^es, sir. Q. And the charg<> of the court to the jury? — A. Y"es, sir. Q. In what n-v tanc(\s have you been required to be in the jurv room to interpret amo g the jurois? — A. None whatever, except the grand jury. NEW r^TATEHOOB BILL. 81 INTERPRETEU IX THE GKAM) JURY. Q. That was each timo (in the o-rund jurv, I supjjose? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And what district is this^ — A. The Fifth judicial district. Q. Is that Jud|^e McMillan's court? — A. Yes, sir. By Senator Dillinciiam: Q. Where were you educated^ — A. Ki^ht here in the Territory; in fact, I have had no education: I just picked it up. Q. You use good English. — A. ^^'ell, 1 do not know; I think 1 use better Spanish than English; I use the Spanish most of the time. By the last term of court I meant the court before the present session. Court is in session now. Q. Is Judge McMillan holding that court now^ — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. Charles P. Neavhall, called as a witness before the committee, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Please state your name to the committee. — A. Charles P. Newhall. Q. How long have you lived here, Mr. Newhall i — A. Seven years. Q. You are tax collector 'i — A. Yes, sir. Q. And also assistant cashier of the First Nationrd Bank of Albu- querque? — A. Yes, sir. tax notices IX SPANISH. Q. The conmiittee, in driving through the country yesterda3% noticed posted up, l)earing your name, some notices; what notices were they? — A. Well, the}' were the notices for the collection or payment of taxes; taxes are now due. Q. Those are printed and posted up through the country ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Is that in accordance w^ith the law? — A. Yes, sir; I think it is. Q. The committee observed that tliose were printed in Spanish. — A. Well, most of them would lie Spanish in the outlying precincts, Q. Of course the committee takes it that where the population is both so-called American and Mexican that they are in both lan- guages? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you leave a copv of your bank statement with the com- mittee to go with your testimony? — A. Yes, sir; here is one. And further the witness saith not. (The bank statement left by the last witness is attached as Exhibit G.) Prof. William George Tight, called as a witness by the commit- tee, testified as follows: By the Chairmax: Q. Please state vour name to the committee. — A. AVilliam George Tight. Q. Where are you from i — A. From Ohio. Q. You are president of the Universit}' of New Mexico ? — A. Yes, sir. H s B 6 82 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. What school did you roino from '. — A. 1 cunie from Denison Uni- versity, Ohio. Q. W(MV you president of that? — A. No, sir; I was professor of geology there. Q. What parts of New Mexico had you gone through before you came here to the university!; — A. I was in Albuquerque, Socorro, Magdalena, and after that 1 made a trip into the mountains on a geological expedition. Q. Did you ever go over the country districts? — A. Except on that trip, and a little I have been around the last year in the Territor3\ Q. AMiat time did you make these geological trips? — A. We were out three weeks — out in the mountains. CLASSES MET. Q. Did you observe the people through the country districts? — ^A. Wh}", some; ves, sir. Q. What was their racial character as distinguished by the terms Mexican and American, as they are used down here?— A. Well, 1 met both classes, of course; of course we did not meet verj- many out in the mountains. Q. Did you meet some ? — A. Yes, sir; some native people. MOSTLY SPANISH SPOKEN. Q. \\\ these geological expeditions of yours, what language did you find the native people speaking among themselves? — A. Most of them speak Spanish. Perhaps, however, I should say as a rule 1 could make myself understood. I never had an}^ trouble to get along. Q. What language do they use among themselves? — A. I think the}" speak Spanish, mostly. Q. Did you observe anything on these geological trips of the coun- try schools? — A. No, sir; I did not. Q. Did you observe the speech of the children in these country hamlets — among themselves? — A. Not ver}" much, because 1 did not stop very much in the hamlets, because we were on camping trips. We had our own camping outfit with us. I did not see a great deal of them. Q. In the country districts the language used among the nati\"e population between parents and children was what? — A. As near as I am acquainted with it, it was Spanish. Q. How long have you been president of the university? — A. A year, and thus far into this year. Last 3'ear was xwx first 3'ear. Q. What time did you come here last j^ear? — A. I came here the 11th of August last year. Q. The seat of the university is here at Albuquerque? — A. Yes, sir; about a mile east, I think. NUIVIBER OF STUDENTS IN UNIVERSITY. Q. How man}" students have you now? — A. About one hundred and ten here. Q. Are they from all portions of the Territory ? — A. Y"es, sir; fairly well distributed; the larger per cent are from Albuquerque. We have NEvr r;TATp:H()!)i) hill. 88 one pupil witli a 150 mile drive to get to the railroad to come here to school, from the western part of the country. Q. What are the studies tauu-ht ' — A. We have the regular college instruction. Qui- standinu' is ecjual to the standing of any of the I'^ast- ern schools, as far as scholarships are concerned. Our four-years' academic course admits directly to Berkeley, Harvard, and Chicago, And further the witness saith not. Chaeles E. Hodgin, called as a witness by the connnittee, testiiied as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Please state your name to th(^ committee. — A. Charles E. Hodgin. Q. Where arc you from? — A. From Indiana. Q. What part of Indiana? — A. Well. Terre Haute. Kichmond. and Indianapolis. Q. How long have 3'ou been out here ^ — A. About eighteen years. Q. How old are 3'ou? — A. I am past 40. Q. Where have you lived in the Tei'ritory ? — A. I have been in Allniquerque all the time: 1 came direct!}- from Eichmond here. Q. Did you teach school back in Indiana? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And you came out here and taught school i — A. Yes. sir. Q. You are now professor of pedagogy in the university? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How lorig have you held that position? — A. Fi\'e years; this is the sixth year. Q. How long has the university l)een in operation^ — About ten years, I think, since it began operation. STUDENTS IN NORMAL DEPARTMENT. Q. How man}^ students have you under you in your department? — A. Only eight or ten in the normal de]>artment; that is just simply a department of the university. Q. Where are the}' from? — A. They are from the different pans of the Territory. Q. Where are the most of them from? — A. Most of them are from All>uquerque. Q. Hov\' many of them are from Albuquerque? — A. I think of the present number about four. There are some of them, of course, who are transient; they have moved in here from other places, and we call them from Albuquerque. A great many come in from other places on account of the health of some member of the family. Q. Do they come from the Territory ? — A. ^^^ell, from the Territory and other States. Q. These twelve that you have under you, some of them are from Albuquerque? — A. Yes, sir. Q. The instruction that you give these students is in the art of teach- ing? — A. i'es, sir; psychology and the scier.ce of teaching. I just brought the Indiana State Normal along, as near as I could. And further the witness saith not. 84 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Atanasio Montoya, tirst htivin.o- boon duly swoni, testilied as follows: By the Cii airman: Q. You may state your name to the eonunittee. — A. My name is Atanasio Montoya. Q. You are a native New Mexican?— A. Yes, sir. Q. How old are YOU?— A. 1 am 26 years old. Q. Where do you live, or where have you lived in the Territory?— A. 1 live in a little town 3 or 4 miles above this town. Q. Do you live there now?— A. Yes, sir. Excuse me, I was not ))orn there. I was born in a little villag-e farther down^ Q. You are a i)rivate teacher of Spanish now? — A. Yes, sir, PKIYATE teaching IN SPANISH. Q. How lon_a- have you t)een a private teacher of Spanish? — A. 1 have ))een gi\ino' private lessons for seYeral years; in fact, 1 gave pri- vate instruction before I was appointed teacher of Spanish in the uni- Yersity. 1 have had no class for a year. Q. Last year, when you had a class last, how many did you have? — A. I do not remember'quite ^vell whether 1 had two classes or one. I had one, which was the largest, composed of teachers at the Indian school, 10 or 12 of them, and'then I had several private pupils in town. Q. Are you going to organize private schools here in this city this fall?— A. Yes, sir. And furthei- the witness saith not. Hon. B. S. Eodey appeared before the committee and made the following statement: 1 assume, Senators, that the statement th:it I made in Washington before the committee, being in print, is to be used by the committee in its delil)erations, and that you have a copy. To that I have not much to add save that in the recent campaign, when I went around the Territory, I noticed such a vast improvement in things as that I would like to have known it— to have testiiicni a))out it at that time in Washington. The building of the Rock Island road in the southeastern part of the Territorv has tilled up that territory until instead of l)eing some- what dull, a.s it was for three or four hundred miles some two years ago. it is quite prosperous now. Many mining companies have come in there and tilled up the whole section of the country along the line. I assume that if vou are taken bv Mr. Hawkins up to Alamagordo you will see a part of this country. I Avish to say that in the neigh- borhood of Silver City and that connnunity, on account of the mines belonging to the Hearst society l)eing developed, that the territory lias inlproved vastly. In the northwest, too. there has been a large influx of inmiigration there, and the territory is vastly improved also. The conunittee's tour so far has been along this line of railway, and thev have come in contact with the counties which are more than half- and-half Spanish speaking in the ordinary sense. No county is Spanish .speaking in the usual sense, because while lots of people speak Spanish thev also speak English, and while their language in their own hamlets would ])e Spanish thev also speak English.' There are many counties NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 85 in the Territory which you have not visited, and whii-h you will not on account of time, which are ahnost exclusively Enodish: some of thi^m not so larg-e as the Spanish speaking-, so called, some of tlunn (|uite as large. In some of these comities they never have an interpreter except once in- a while when a witness who speaks Spanish oidy is brought in, and then they have an interpreter. ENGLISH-SrEAKINt; COUNTIES. To name these counties. Edd^y County in the southeast corner, Chaves, next county north of it. are as English speaking as any county in New England. Guadaloupe. north of that, is going- to be largely English speaking, because of the intiiix of new population caused f)y the build- ing of the railroad. Colfax and Union counties are largely English speaking, and they never have interpreters or any i>ut English-speak- ing juries. Perhaps I had better modify that by saying- that in Colfax* County there will be times when an interpreter is needed, but Colfax is in fact and is considered so overwhelmingly English speaking that we have classed it that way. Take the city of Raton. It has forty- five hundred people and only four or live hundred natives, and many of them are H)ng-lish speaking-. The county in the southeastern corner has a number of Mexicans in it. They are not natives in this country. They are not citizens of the I'nited States. They are peons that came there from old Mexico. They do not have any interpreters down there. Luna, east of that, has not twenty-Mve Mexican residents in the county at all. Otero has about — I don't know how many Mexicans, and it is slrictly an American county in every sense. This county is about half-and-half, with the American element increasing-. Santa Fe County is contended to be about three-fourths Mexican, but some of the citizens of that county contest that, and say only half. Rio Arriba and Taos are three-tifths Spanish. I have made a calcu- lation from well-informed people — the census gives us no information on the subject, but I am satislied the population of New Mexico to-day, counting every race w hich is not strictly native Mexicans, is about three-lifths Mexican and two-tifths Spanish. Taking- the increase, my calculation is that of all the population of New Mexico, three-fourths of them and perhaps a little better can speak English. I have lived here in New Mexico twenty-two years. 1 have been through several campaigns l)ef ore I was elected to Cong-ress, and of course in these cam- paigns 1 went in nearly every county of the district. In my two cam- paigns that I have gone through in my election to Congress I have been all through the Territory. I know the Territory's history as well as the person who makes it his business can learn it in the time I have been here. I know the people thoroughly. They are a good people. They are not a people at all inclined to violate the law. THE TAX QUESTION. One of the things that [X'ople may look at with disfavor is the tax question. We return ??3U.OUO,00<) "of property for taxjition when we have easily three hundred millions of proi)erty in the Territory. Three- fourths of the property is easily owned by Americans, so i-alled. There- fore it must be the Aniericanswho are the tax dodgers. Our railroads alone are worth more than our entire tax returns. Our land grants 86 NEW S'i'ATKH(*<)]) HILL. hold hv private ownership iire worth tilraost as much as our entire tax returns. Our houses and lots in the cities and towns are worth as nmch as our tax returns: and several other items, especially cattle and wool together, are worth about as much. We figure that when we come into a State of the Union that it will give us an opportunity to remedy this crying evil. Then with a levy of 1 per cent, limited to that in our constitution, will give us more than we need. By the Chairman: Q. The laws under which your tax returns are made are Territorial laws, are thev not? — A. Yes, sir. Q. The same laws under which the returns would be made under statehood would be passed by the legislature? — A. Yes, sir. Q. The United States would have nothing to do with that? — A. ^'o, sir. Q. And if you were a State your tax returns would idso be laws passed by the State legislature? — A. Yes, sir. Q. So, with the fact of statehood, the Territorial government would have nothing to do with that particular point — the laws under wdiich the tax returns are made? — A. In the sense in which you ask the ques- tion, that is true. We have ti-ied to correct this at times. We tried to get our assessors together and have them i"ate property at its true market value. They can not do that very well because if they did they would get a lot of money into the treasury which was not needed. One county "don't like to return its taxes at ^»0 per cent of its value and lia^e another county rc^turn its at '20 per cent, because it would be pay- ing an undue proportion of the Territorial taxes. A lot of the people who have the interests of the Territory at heart have talked this thing- over in the last five \'ears, and they figure it out that a plan will be adopted under the State constitution that will ena))le the levy to be laid within 1 per cent. A PROPOSED SYSTEM. There is a system talked of of leaving to the executive of the new State the power of appointing assessors for a time at least. It has been talked even to appoint assessors from counties remote from the counties in which the taxes are to be fixed. Colorado had such a trouble, and they sent a committee over to New Zealand or Australia, liaving heard that their system w^as better than the American system, and Senator Teller had their report printed as a Senate document, and the edition has been exhausted two or three times. The omnilnis statehood l)ill Ix^fore your committee will bring a l)ounty of land equal to that which ]Mr. Ferguson secured for the Ter- ritory, and it is figured that that will luring to us more than we have had apportioned to us, and that the new quatitity of land that will come, put with those Mr, Ferguson got in lb98, will practically sup- port our schools. We will get eight or nine million acres. B}' Senator Heitfeld: Q. Are you now getting sixteen and thirty-six sections in each town- ship? — A. Yes, sir: and we are getting two million in the statehood bill. Franchise taxes will support the State government, and we will have no government to sustain except the county and municipal gov- ernment, and we figure that the limit of 1 per cent will bring us more NEW stat?:hood bill. 87 than twice as much as we will need. 1 state to this committee in the best of faith that 1 have no more doubt about the people of New Mex- ico sustaining- a State o-overnment as patriotic citizens, and sustaining a National (lovernment, than I have of the peoph^ of any other State in the Union doing it. At the close of the hist session of Congress I took my wife and cliildren down to Rockaway Beach, and I saAv there in that neighborhood in the time that we stayed there a million per- sons, and 1 compared them mentally, and I have no doubt of the com- parison being favorably made between those people and our people. Our people in this Territory — our American people in this Territory — are among the brightest and best people in the world. NATIVES HAVE PASSED LAWS FOR FIFTY YEARS. The natives have been here tifty years and have been passing their own law^s and Congress never annulled but one law, and that was w^hen the legislature many years ago chartered a denominational school and Congress promptly annulled the act. When w^e look at the aldermen in St. Louis, and the mixtures in politics that we have in Colorado, and the political conditions we have in New York, where the people rise up and try to throw off the most corrupt oligarchy ever seen in a city. 1 think we will come along all right. We realize that capital does not invest itself in the Territory with the ease or in the amounts that it would in a State, and for that reason the people are clamorous for statehood and Ave believe that we will progress n great deal faster under a State government than under a Territorial form. Above and behind all that, since the insular decisions of the Supreme Court, we hate to live under a condition where we could be ceded awa}^ in time of war, and where Congress could pass a tariff act shutting out our members from the State. By the Chairman: Q. Is it your interpretation of the law that that could be done under the law? — A. I state it to be my opinion as a lawyer that I believe that the same Congress which extended the Constitution over us can take it away. 1 l^dieve that the same Congress which passed that law can revoke it and take the Constitution away. Q. And take the Constitution away ? — A. 1 think so. I think as a matter of law that that can be done. It is doubtful in my mind if a child born in the Territory of New Mexico is eligible to the JPresidency. The courts said in the insular decisions that the provisions of the Con- stitution that takes an excise should be equal and uniform in all of the States don't extend to all the Territories. It may be that the same rule that a person born in a Territory is never in a constitutional sense a natural-born citizen of the United States. Lewis Cass went into the Cabinet from the Territory of Michigan and was afterwards a Senator from the State of Michigan. John Hay went into the Cabinet from the District of Columbia. Those are two notable instances. Congress has returned to the Territory $80,U0() a year in off' years and ^60,000 a year in legislative years. It has taken the I'evenues from the Terri- tory under the law^s,'and allowed the Indians to conmiit depredations on our people; and the progress we have made is only twenty years old in New Mexico. If the conmiittee will take the time to look at the report sent in this morning by Colonel Chaves, Territorial superinten- 88 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. dent of schoolts, thev will see that we have about 1,000 .school-teachers in the Territoiy and that our school property is worth ^2,50(»,O0O. We have crude schools in some instances, and in some there are good ones. Our city schools compare favorably with any of those of the Eastern and Central States. With reference to the testimony' that the committee has taken, I have watched its course. You have got some evidence as to country justices of the peace and some in the towns. You find some of them crude and some intelligent justices of the peace, even more than you expected to find. COURT AND COUNTY RECORDS. You will find that our court records compare favorably with an}^ State in the Union. You will find that our county records are in good shape. You must have become satisfied from your investigation that notwithstanding the difficulties under which the people have labored, that the overwhelming language is English. Personally, 1 can tell you that the native people here are very anxious for the education of their children. I have been approached time and again by people who wanted me to try to get their children into the Indian schools when they had enough Indian blood to swear that they were part Indian to get them in there. It is proposed to adopt one of the best constitu- tions for the State of New Mexico that it is possible for them to frame, and to get along to their destination as fast as they can. It has been discussed as no other subject has been discussed in the Terri- tory. We expected to be admitted as a State. We sincerely hope w^e will. We will be the most disappointed people in the United States if we are not. We regret that we are not being as well treated as the Philippines and Porto Rico, while it might be said by Congress to us now. We will do the same with you and let you go on. We will return to you the revenues collected from the Territory as we are doing in the Philippines and Porto Rico. We believe that w^e have advanced to where statehood is the remedy for us now. We would like to have a voice in Congress. The Territory has fifty things to ask Corigiess where the State has one thing to ask of it. Representation in Congress is so helpless that we need four Delegates. A good portion of my time in the last session was taken up l)y the Committee on Foreign Relations and before the Secretary of State in preventing the passage of laws detrimental to the interests of the Territory in regard to the building of the big international dam at El Paso. ' ' INTERN ATIOXAL-DAM '' LA W\ By the Chairman: Q. In whose interest is that international-dam law^ — A. It is in the interest of Texas, but more largely in the interest of the Republic of Mexico. It provides that a mile of our Territory be ceded to Mexico and that nobody take a gallon of that water from above until the dam is filled, and Mexico waives her right to the dam against the United States of about !^5O,O(>o,000. Q. What is the interest of Texas? — A. The interest of Texas in it is to tiy to get more water for El Paso and the territoiy below it» NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 89 We have no objection to that, but we ha\e objection to the section of the bill which is always in it preventing- us from taking a gallon away from it north of it. We do not consent that there is any such thing as an international appropriation of water, and that therefore we are under no duty to Mexico to let the water run by our doors to our own detriment for their benefit. Colorado has taken so much of the water north of us that the v'lvov is dry many months of the year right o])po- site the room in which you sit. The irrigation bill is the greatest law that was ever passed for the West since the homestead law was passed, "inadequate representation." I was speaking of the inadequac}^ of the representation of the Ter- ritory to Congress. A Territor}^ would need one Delegate on the Hoor of the House eveiy moment from the time the session opens until it closes, because all the Congressmen, instead of acting as a board of aldermen for the Territory, as they ought to, actually attack it as in the case 1 have cited. New^ Mexico is peculiarly open to these attacks. Then, again, we would need another one before the commit- tee to press our matters before the connuittee. Then when theN' are all done we need another one before the Departments and another one on the floor of the Senate. We are virtually lobbyists on the floor of the Senate unless we can get some good, kind Senator to act as our representative. In the first place the States in the East have no land matters. There are many land matters here. B}^ the Chairman: Q. Mr. Rode}-, the committee reported every one of your bills except the statehood bill, did they not? — A. Yes, sir, you did: but in a new- Territory like New Mexico one Delegate is wholly inadequate. Q. Do you think all the time that the connuittee required of you last session on all the l)ills outside of the statehood bill, was there three hours all told? — A. It might not have been more than three hours actually before the conmiittees, but the time I spent in trying to get the connnittees to meet, and trotting around and getting information would be many days. Take, for instance, the State of Wyoming, about one-third that of New Mexico. When a Representative gets through with a bill in the House he promptly passes it on to the Senators and they take care of it. But it is not so with a lone Delegate, who has everything to attend to himself. The Territorv asks everything it has to have done in connection with their schools and things. They have to ask the consent of Congress under the so-called Harrison law. We have to ask Congress, while if we were a State and had these lands absolutely deeded to us we could mortgage them and put up our build- ings; but while these strings are tied to them, now we can not do that. When a State is an ap])licant for a thing that a Territory wants, the State always has the preference; whether it is previously stated that it shall have it or not, it is, the case. For that reason and many others a Territorial government over a vast territor\' like we have here is whollv inadequate. O. N. Marron, one of the persons selected by Delegate Rodey to appear before the committee on behalf of the Territory, testified as follows: 90 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. By Senator Burniiam: Q. State your name to the couimittee. — A. M3' name is O. N. Marron. Q. Where do you reside ? — A. I live in Albuquerque. I have resided in Albuquerque "since September, 1891. Have practiced law and am a practicing attorney. For four years, from November, 1803, to Decem- ber, 1S9T, I was clerk of the district court of the second judicial dis- trict of this Territory. I was mayor of the city of All)U([uerque for three terms. Q. Now, you will make such statements as you may wish to make to the committee. — A. I have visited every town of any importance in the Territory. 1 am familiar with the native population, and my expe- rience with "them has been to prove that they are good citizens, good friends, and good neighbors. They are honest and intelligent. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. Mr. Marron, what do you think is the proportion throughout the Territory of the Mexican population as against the American, by which I mean all others than Mexican '( — A. I believe that the Mexican population predominates in New Mexico. The proportion of Ameri- cans to ]Mexicans l)eing pro])aljly OO and 1()(). Q. Sixty as against 100^ — A." Yes, sir. AMERICAN POPULATION STABLE. Q. Is the American population a stable one i — A. Yes, sir. There is one peculiarity that I have noticed about the American population, they come here and they stay; they don't go away. There is some- thing remarkable about the climate, about the country, and about the people that strikes them and they stay here. Senator Burnham. Now, what 1 had in mind was any statements that you cared to make we would be glad to hear. That is, any par- ticular thing you desired to say. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. Is there any tendency on the part of the Mexican population to copv after the Americans and to use the English language and Ameri- can" methods? — A. There is. They like the American methods and thej^ are very rapidly adopting the American methods. They have the" American agricultural nuichinery. They are very largely agri- culturists and stock raisers. SPANISH THE LANGUAGE IN THE MEXICAN HOMES. By Senator Burnham: Q. Is it not a fact that the Mexicans, as a rule, in their own homes verv largely use the Spanish language^— A. That, I think, is the fact, Semitor. There is no question about that. There^ is no information that I can give you that would not be cumulative evidence. Of course, we Americans and the Mexican population, as the last election shows, are very anxious for statehood. We believe that if we had statehood the great undeveloped resources of our Territory would be developed. That we would have a great intlux of population here that would develop our country. That we would get capital here, and I believe that it would be very few, but a very few years until the American population would largely dominate. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 91 Q. V^liat State do you come from' — A. 1 came from New York State, up on Lake Champlain; from Essex Count}'. And further witness saith not. WiLLAK!) S. Hopewell, lirst having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator Burnham: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. M}' name is Willard S. Hopewell. Q. Tell where you reside and what is your occupation. — A. Well, sir, at the present time 1 am building railroads, although I am inter- ested in the cattle business, in raising cattle. I reside in Sierra County, N. Mex. Q. How long have you ))een in New Mexico!' — A. Twenty -three years next month, sir. Q. And your business in particular has been what'^ — A. Cattle rais- ing and mining, and for the last two years I have been interested in railroad building. Q. Through your work in cattle raising and mining what part of the Territory have you been familiar with i* — A. With all the southern part of the Territory', but more p-.n-ticularly the southwestern. HISTORY OF MINING CAMl'S. Q. In. that part of the Territory what have you found as to race division?— A. Why, when I lirst went in there, which was twentv-two or twentj^-three years ago, it was principally Mexican in the section I was in, west of the Kio Grande. Another time, in the early eighties — eighty-three, eighty-four, eighty-tive, eighty-six, or eighty-seven — the great mining camps at Lake Valley and Kingston opened up. and the Platte raiich district, and then a very large American poi)ulation came in; but after the silver depreciated in value the camps closed down, and the American population decreased to a very large extent, and left it up in that county. Sierra, about evenly divided. To-day the Mexican population in that county predominates, proba])ly 60 per cent Mexican to -fO per cent American. Q. How are the Mexican people occupied in the section that you are familiar with? — A. In farming. Agricultural purposes principally. Of course, when the mines were working they did a great deal of freighting and working in the mines. Q. ^^ ere their farming operations contined to the river borders? — A. To the valleys: yes, sir. A. At farming small farms? — A. Small farms, sir. MEXICANS CONTINUE SPANISH LANGUAGE. Q. Is it the habit of the Mexican people to continue the use of the Spanish language in their own homes? — A. Yes, sir; to a very large extent. In fact, I would state it was almost universal. Q. Of course, they have to use the English language to do business with the English-speaking people, but after all they like their own language and talk it? — A. Yes, sir. Oh, yes. Q. And they talk it, then, only when it is necessary for them to talk English? — A. Yes, sir. But I will say this, that as soon as I went 92 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. into tliat section of the country, tliat wiiat is now Sierra County, 1 do not supi)()s(^ there was over one hundred Enoli.sh-speaking people at the outside. Now, I would say tliat 75 per cent of the Mexican people talk English, but they will not talk it unless they have to. ENGLISH CONFINED TO THE YOUNGER ELEMENT. Q. Then English is practically contined to the younger element?— A. Oh. yes; that is very true. " And that being a far^ning country in that particular section, and the Mexicans working in the mines and mixing up with the American miners, developed the Mexican popula- tion into speaking English much more so than in many of the other counties in the Territory, until to-day in Sierra County you can not go to any town or village but what a large num1)er speak the English language. Q. But the prevalent language is the Spanish language? — A. Yes, sir; in the Mexican districts they talR the Spanish. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. Being acquainted with the outlying districts, have you noticed their schools throughout the country pretty generally? — A. Yes. sir. Q. Do you know what is taught in these schools; whether they use the English or the Spanish language? — A. Why, in that section of the country I have been a school director for a great numlier of years. They always employ in the Spanish districts a teacher that can speak both the English and Spanish, which was very necessary; Vnit the educational progress amongst the people of the southern portion of the Territory has been very great in the last ten years. The school- house facilities and the employment of teachers has been gone into very carefully, not only in Sierra County but in Socorro ('ounty. Of course, if vou go over into Grant County, tlie extreme southwest county of the Territory, that is what we call an American county, and the English, of course, predominates. In the valley of the Minvus, which is a nice farming region, with a large Mexican population, there is no trouble in going- up' and down there to talk with any of_ them there now in the English language, because they have had to mix and associate so nmch with the Americans that they have acquired the English language, ])oth the old and the new language. They have had to do their business in English, because the Americans would not learn the Spanish, and when necessity comes in they seem to acquire and learn the English language very readily. ENGLISH AND SPANISH BOOKS USED. By Senator Burnham: Q. Do you know whether in the schools books in the Spanish are used? — A. Books in English and Spanish are used; yes, sir. I bought some for the sixth year in the Mexican precincts in Sierra County for Spanish and for English for use in the schools. SCHOOL attendance REGULAR. By Senator TIeitfeld: Q. Do the children atticnd school pretty regularly ^— A. Yes, sir; the attendance is verv remarkable in the Mexican precincts of our NEW STATEHOOD HILL. 93 districts. Tliey have a larger attendance than in the American pre- cincts. Although we have a compulsory school law compelling- attend- ance, they seem to be very desirous in that part of the Territory to acquire an education. Q. Is there any sort of race feeling, or a disposition on the i)art of the Mexicans to get awa}' from the Americans and to isolate them- selves'^ — A. Not half as much as among the Americans, and that has been proven in the elections. For instance, I am a Democrat and Mr. »Toseph, who was the Delegate to Congress several times, when an Ameri- can was running against him in the election two 3'ears ago, when Mr. Rodey ran, he had 2,700 majority. In our county we have always counted on the Mexican element to vote the Democratic ticket, while the natural tendenc}' of the Mexican element in the Territory" is to vote the Kepul)lican ticket; but we will find that the Mexicans are more loyal to their part}" thaii what the Americans are, because the Americans will scratch and flop around and often run into Populists and independents. Now, I have never seen the race issue developed among the Mexicans. I understand that it did once or twice in San Miguel Count v, but my impression is that the American race issued more than the Mexicans did. I have worked a great many Mexicans and a great many Americans, and while there are some things about them that 1 do not like and I am a little bit prejudiced — cattle men get a little prejudiced against them; 1 am prejudiced against them on account of their cruelty to animal — still. 1 must say 1 found them to be a very decen.t sort of people, except where they became too much contaminated with some of the worthless American element that came in along with the building of American railroads. And fin-thei' witness saith not. At 7 p. m. the committee resumed its hearings at the above-named place. N. E. HiCKEY, called by the committee as a witness, and tirst having been duly sworn, testilied as follows: By the Chairman: Q. State your name.^ — A. My name is N. E. Hickey. Q. How long ha^'e you been out hei'e:! — A. Just a little over four years. Q. Where did you come from? — A. I came from Colorado here. I was born in Indiana, moved to Kansas, from there to Colorado, and from Colorado here. Q. You are the superintendent of the schools here? — A. Yes, sir. Q. If 3'ou can make any statement that will enlighten the committee we will be pleased to have you do so. — A. My statement would be along the line of school work. I came hei'e four years ago, as I have stated, and took charge of the city schools here. At that time we had an enrollment of about 700. Our school has increased in numljer each year about 150, until last year it was over 1,200; that is, in round numbers; I can not give the exact numbers. During that time we also increased the strength of our course. For instance, when I came here we had only eleven years in the public schools — eight ^^ears below the high school and three in the high school. We have increased the strength of that course until now" we have eight years in the course 94 NEW STATEHOOD HILL. and four years in the lii^-h s(^'h(K)i,s, so tliat our pupils graduating from our high schools are admitted in colleges East and West, and have i>een without examination admitted to the freshman year. STANDARD OF GEADP: WORK IN THE SCHOOLS, The grade work — 1 can say this, having taught in Kansas and Colo- rado — the grade work is as strong in Albuquerque as it was in the towns in which 1 taught in Kansas, two towns, and as it was in one town in Colorado, towns of just about the same size of this. I think it is just about as strong as the average school work East or West, hav- ing couipared our work with the catalogues of schools East and West. Our object was to get our schools up to the standard of East and West, so that when pupils came here they could enter our course without loss of time, and we have succeeded, I think, in getting a course to com- pare very favorably with courses East or West. Speaking of teachers, we have since I have been connected with our school work — we have been trying to get teachers here that are strong, and to-day I was going over in my mind, before 1 came up here, and there are 26 teachers in the city, and the superintendent, and 1 think 17 are graduates ot normals and colleges. Some of these are graduates of high schools. I did not take that into consideration, but of course others have not had more than a good common-school education. SCHOOLS CROWDED. We have the schools so crowded that our school laws allow us the sliding scale, if 1 may use that expression. The law states that a pupil may enter the schools at 5 years of age. In cities, if they are crowded, the board has the right to raise that to 7, and tlie fact is that we were so crowded we raised it to 6 in order to keep a great many of the younger pupils out. Another thing that I noticed in the school work: We charge tuition for nonresident pupils, and the last two years — last yenv particularly; I do not know in regard to this 3^ear, because I am not connected with the schools this year — but last year we had a great many applications from the surrounding country" and the surrounding Mexican towns for positions and places in our schools for the Mexican children and paying tuition for them. We had two or three cases where they came from surrounding counties, the parents desiring their children to learn the English language, and that tendency was nmch greater during the last two years than during the first two years. 1 have taught or helped in county institute work in this county and in Socorro County, two years in this count\^ and one in Socorro County, and the work was all done in Englisli language. SOME TEACHERS COULD NOT SPEAK ENGLISH FLUENTLY. It is true that some of the teachers there could not speak the English language tluently, but I think all understood the work we did in Eng- lish, although we had to make some of it very simple for them to get it, but on talking with these teachers we found all of them were doing- some work in English. It was not necessarily the Ijest work that a teacher could do, l)ut they were doing their very best, and doing some work in the Eno-lish lano-uao-e. J visited the schools when in Santa NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 95 Fe, with Professor Woods — 1 do not know whether he appeared Ijefore the committee or not. He is workino- at a great disadvantage in the way of school buildings, and for the time that he has been there and the means in his hands and the encouragement that he has received from the people — a good majoritv of the people there are native peo- ple — he is doing w^eTl. His grading is not cpiite as good as ours, or was not last y«'ar. The teachers of this Territory have a so-called teachers' association. They meet once a year, as they do in most of the States, at holiday time. We of course talk about thc^ work in different places and try to explain so that we can be helpful to each other, so that we can strengthen the course and strengthen as many of the teachers as possible, feeling that there is where the work needs to be done. Of course, our distances are great here, but last year we had an attendance at Santa Fe, I think it was seventy-live, and we have native teachers at that place, and on the whole 1 think I can say that the question of education is a live question with the people. 1 know it is with the city. I am quite positive it is by talking with the teachers; that it is witli the people of the county or country I am not. Now, we ha^'e in. our corps of teachers a lady who taught several years among the native element, and in talking with her she tells me that the Mexicans show a great desire, at least in her work, to have their children learn the English language. Q. Who is she ^— A. Mrs. Roberts. Q. Where does she live^ — A. She lives here in the city. She teaches Spanish and English in the school. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. Do the teachers in the country here hold certificates? — A. I am not positive, but 1 think so. I am not connected with the county schools. Q. Who conducts the teachers' institutes that you hold? — A. In some cases— the case at Socorro County — the county superintendent conducts it. In this county the count}^ superintendent employed some one — I have forgotten the name — a man who lived up at Santa Fe. Q. A practical teacher? — A. Yes, sir. And I would say that the county superintendent of Socorro County had been teaching several 3'ears before he was elected supei-intendent down there. I\v Senator Dillingham: Q. The teachers in some of the places where Ave have been have told us that the children of Mexican parents seemed rather anxious; that the parents seemed anxious to have their children in school and have them taught English, and when they got u]) to the sixth grade it was almost impossible to keep them. — A. Yes, sir. Q. To what do you attriljute that? — A. I think it is because they have got to get out and work on the ranch and herd sheep and goats. We have a few, but man}- of them have to do that. SMALL PER CENT GET TO HIGH SCHOOL. I think, however, there is a small per cent of those who enter the primary grades that ever get to the high school, and having eight grades "to pass through, they do that. There was a boy in our school 17 years old. I said to him*, 'Mohn, you are going to continue in the high school and graduate?" and he said, "Why, I am 17 years old." 96 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 1 .siiid, "' Well, I cloii't care if you are; go on throuo-h college and you will come out at 23. and that is young enough to begin." He said. " Gee whiz, ]Mr. Hickey, I have got to get out and hustle before that."' In talking with the native teachers the}' tell uie that the Mexicans as a whole wish to have their cliildren learn the P^nglish language and are very anxious for it. I think that you take the people over 45 they will never try to sp;>ak the English, ])ut at the same tin)e these people are anxious for their children to learn the English language. And further witness saith not. And here further hearing of testimony in the Territory of New Mexico was adjourned until Thursday, November 20, 1902. Las Cruces, N. Mex., Xovemher W, 1903— 1 2). m. At the above-named place and date the committee resumed the hear- ing of testimony relative to the question of the admission of the Ter- ritory of New Mexico as a State in the Union. Judge Frank W. Parker, called as a witness by the committee, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Judge, will you please state your name and age to the com- mittee^ — A. Frank W. Parker, age 42. Q. How long have 3'ou lived here^ — A. Twenty-one j'ears. Q. How long have vou been Federal judge here? — A. Since Feb- ruary, 1.898. Q. You are judge of both the district and Territorial courts? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What is your district?— A. The third. Q. What counties does that included — A. Grant, Luna, Sierra, Dona Ana, and Otero. Q. In Grant County the American population is considerable? — A. Yes, sir; it predominates. POPULATION IN DIFFERENT COUNTIES. Q. How is it in the other counties? — A. In Luna County the popu- lation is practically all American; Deming is the county seat. Sierra County is al)out equally divided. In Dona Ana County I should say the population is two-thirds Mexican and one-third American. In Otei'o County there is quite a large Mexican population: close up to a third at least of the population is Mexican. Q. What count}' is this? — A. Dona Ana. Q. In the trial of causes, have you a regular court interpreter? — A. We have. Q. The committee judges from other testimony already before it that the duties of the interpreter consist of interpreting the testimony of witnesses to the jury and to the court, in interpreting the arguments of counsel to the jury, and the charges of the court to the jury. — A. That is correct. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 97 Q. And the interpretation in some ca«es between the jurors them- .selves in the jurj' room? — A. That is the case where there happens to be an American on the jury who does not understand the Mexican hm- guage or a Mexican that does not understand the English. KIND OF LITIGATION THAT PREDOMINATES. B}" Senator Dillingham: Q. On the civil side of the docket, Judge, what class of cases pre- dominate? — A. Why. the litigation covers a very broad field; it covers — almost all of the important civil litigation arises out of min- ing property. It extends over all kinds of litigation. For instance, controversies between railroads. I happen to think of one as to rights of way, and matters of that kind. The civil litigation since I have been on the bench has been much less important since I have been on the bench than it was before. I spend the most of my time trying the criminal business. Q. What are the crimes most frequently charged i! — A. Well, the most frequent crime is the larceny of animals. We have quite a num- ber of homicides, but no more than would be expected, I suppose, in a frontier country, as this is. Those two crimes are the most promi- nent. With the incoming- of new population, the building of rail- roads, etc., we have coming in another kind of crime, such as burglary and larcen}" in dwellings, buildings, etc., which is not common among people who have been long residents here. CATTLE STEALING. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. But they will not respect the other man's live stock? — A. No; there seems to be quite an inclination to seize upon the other man's cattle. Q. Is this cattle stealing more among the American than among the Mexican population? — A. 1 do not think so. MEXICANS AS JURORS. By the Chairman: Q. Do you think of any other statement that is suggested by the questions asked you that 3'^ou would like to make? — A. Well, it has occurred to me that this committee, representing the people, the Con- gress, have an idea that Mexicans do not make good jurors. Now, ray experience has led me to believe that that is a mistake. Of course, education has some — has many — advantages and some disadvantages. These people who are picked up as jurors are not educated people as a rule, but they have wonderfully good memories. They remember the testimony; that is, they are not going to be what we sometimes call " smart Alecks," and think they know more about what the law is than the court does. The}^ take the instructions of the court and obey them, and they have intelligence enough to apply the facts and 4-each a cor- rect determination. Now, I have gone through entire terms of court right in this town at which the jury was practically entirely Mexican, H s B 7 98 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. and tliov hit the nail on the head every single time, and never made a miss. I want to say that for the Mexican people. I l)elievc that is all I have to say. And further the witness saith not. Manuel Lopez, called as a witness, and first having been duly sworn through the official interpreter of the committee, testified as follows, the questions being propounded and the answers thereto given through the medium of the interpreter of the coumiittee: By the Chairman: Q. You may state to the coumiittee your name, your age, and your business.^ — A. My name is Manuel Lopez, 52 years of age, justice of the peace. Q. Are you a justice of the peace in this town of Lasci'uces^ — A. Yes, sir; in the 'rwentieth precinct. Q. In your docket here I find a printed form of record. What is that^ — A. That is a criminal complaint. Q. Is this the form used in 3"our court? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Always in Spanish? — A. Yes; well, sometimes in English. Q. Will you let the committee have this, and make it a part of your testimony? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What is this paper, an order of arrest? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Can the conunittee have that as a part of your testimony ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. The one I hold in my hand is American? — A. Yes, sir. Q. I see it is in typewriting. — A. Yes, sir; they are mostly type- written in P^nglish. Q. Can the committee have that, also, as part of 3'our testimony? — A. Yes, sir; I can read English, but I can not write it. Q. I notice that all of 3'our docket is in Spanish? — A. Yes, sir; noth- ing in English. TERRITORIAL STATUTES IN JUSTICE OF PEACE OFFICE PRINTED IN SPANISH. Q. The statutes of the Territory that yon keep in your office are printed in Spanish, are the}"? — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. The blanks and forms identified by the witness and made a part of his testimony V)y him are attached as Exhibit H. JosE Gonzales, called as a witness, and first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state to the committee your nauie and age. — A. My name is Jose Gonzales, and I am 35 3-ears old. Q. Are 3'ou a native New Mexican? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And your business is what ^— A. I am editor of a Spanish paper in this town. Q. What is 3^our circulation? — A. I have 900 now. Q. What is the name of 3'our paper? — A. El Labrador. And further the witness saith not. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 99 Samuel A. Steele, called as a witness, and first havino- been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator DiLLixciiiAM: Q. You may state to the committee your name.— A. Samuel A. Steele. Q. You live in Lascruces^ — A. Y'^es, sir. Q. How long have you been living* in Lascruces'^ — A. Fifteen or sixteen years. Q. You were one of the census enumerators? — A. Yes, sir; in the last census. Q. And where was your district? — A. Commencing about here, and coming up to the northern part of the city. Q. TVas it in the city ?— A. It took in all of the town and part of the country outside; 3 or -i miles out. Q. Do you remember about the number of inhabitants that you enumerated? — A. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,000. It took in all of this whole district, running up as far as Sampson's Ranch, and went almost to the river. Q. Did you take a full and complete census of the people? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Y^ou obeved the oath that you took, did you? — A. I obeyed the oath exactly. ONE-THIRD AMERICANS — TWO-THIRDS SPANISH. Q. What was the relative number of each class of the population; that is, of those that are called Americans and of those called Mexi- cans^ — A. Oh, in my district there was al)out one-third Americans. I think there nuist be two-thirds Spanish. Q. Do you speak Spanish^ — A. Vevy little. Q. How did you take the census!' — A. 1 had an interpreter with me a part of the time. During the first ten da3's I was in town here, and during that time the Mexicans and I were able to get along without an interpreter, and when I got out in the country — the most of them there come in from Mexico — the children, lots of them, could speak English; but with many of them we had to have an interpreter. I found them all very intelligent people. They were all far ahead in this Tei-ritory. And further the witness saith not. Maj. Eugene Van Patten, called as a witness, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator Burnham: Q. You may state your name to the conmiittee. — A. Eugene Van Patten. Q. How lop.g have you been a resident here? — A. Of this country forty-five years, in the Territorj- of New Mexico; from Germany. Q. Did you assist in taking the last census? — A. I did, sir. Q. What territory did your district embrace? — A. The third precinct. Q. That included part of the town and outlying district? — A. Yes, sir. 100 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. How far out?— A. I went down below the colleg-e, and along the main street here. I took the lower end, from about the middle of the town, from the church, the south side of the church, down below the college. Q. About how far?— A. Well, I think it is about 3 miles; probably a little more or a little less. Q. How many people did you enumerate ?— A. I do not remember; I can not remember how many 1 did enumerate. PRINCIPALLY MEXICANS. Q. Do you know how they were divided as between the Americans and the Mexicans?— A. Yes,' sir; the principal portion were Mexicans. Q. You took an oath to enumerate fully and accurately ?— A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you comply with the oath?— A. Yes, sir; to the best of my ability. Q. Do you speak Spanish? — A. Yes, sir. Q. You did not need an interpreter ?— A. No, sir; I am an interpre- ter myself; I am an interpreter for the United States district court here. Q. \lnd do you think you got the full number of the population?— A. Yes, sir, Q. And you made your returns on that basis, did you? — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. IsiDOR Armi.jo, called as a witness, lirst having been duly sworn, testified as follows: B}^ the Chairman: Q. You may state to the committee your name, age, and official position. — A. My name is Isidor Armijo: probate clerk and ex officio recorder within and for the county of Dona Ana, Territory of New Mexico; age 31. I was a census enumerator, too. By Senator Dillingham: Q. And where was your census district? — A. My district was the southern precincts, 11 and 18. Q. In this city? — A. No, sir; outside of the city. Q. And about what was the number of population in those pre- cincts? — A. As near as 1 can remember now, I believe about 800; 750 or 800. proportions of races. Q. And about what were the proportions of the difierent races there ? — A. ^Vell, the majorit}' native. Q. By that you mean Mexican? — A. I mean American citizens, not Mexicans; born in the United States. Q. Of what blood were they, of American or Mexican descent?— A. Of Spanish extraction. I ani^of Spanish extraction myself, but I was born in the United States and I am an American. The Chairman. But you understand down here, and the committee know that themselves, \hat the words " Mexican " and " American " down here are used as they are not used anywhere else in the United States. We are just getting at the racial blood; that is all. By Senator Dillingham: Q. What is the language that prevails in the district?— A. Well, both languages; English and Spanish. The Americans speak Spanish, NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 101 nearly all of them, and the Mexicans, as you see, they speak Eng-li.sh a little. The younger element speaks it more than the older elenjent. Of the 3'ounger element, I can say that about 80 per cent of the rising- generation speak and write the P^nglish language. LANGUAGE OF SCHOOL CHILDREN. By the Chairman: Q. The committee observed, on passing the schools this morning, that the children in the scliool yards at play were using the Spanish language among themselves at play. Have you observed that also? — A. Well, I have not seen it just as the}' were playing, but I have visited nearly all of the schools of this county and I made addresses to the children. They always spoke in English when I addressed them. Q. Have you observed them at play at recess? — A. No, sir; Ihavenot. Q. When they go home at night from their schools, what language do they use in their homes between themselves and their parents? — A. Well, it depends a great deal. The progressive people here will insist upon them speaking English, and they all speak English when 3"ou address them in English. Q. Well, when they go home at night from their schools, what lan- guage do they use in their own homes between themselves and their parents? — A. It would be difficult to say wdiether they spoke Spanish or English at any particular time; they use both languages. DEEDS RECORDED IN LANGUAGE IN WHICH THEY ARE MADE OUT. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. I see part of this record which you have brought before the com- mittee is in English and part of it is in Spanish. — A. No, sir; the deeds are recorded in the original language that they are sent in in. If we have a deed sent in in French, it will be recorded in French. There are some deeds written in 1853, and they are not yet recorded. By the Chairman: Q. Now, here is one on page 141. What is that? — A. That is a bond. Q. What is the date of that? That is 1901, is it not?— A. Yes, sir. Q. What language is that in? — A. It is in Spanish. Q. And this gentleman signs by his mark ? — A. One of them; yes, sir. Q. This record here is a mortgage-deed record^— A. Yes, sir. Q. And what record is this [indicating another record]? — A. That is the mining deeds of the same county. farming by irrigation. Q. How long have you lived here ? — A. I have lived here all my life. Q. Are 3"ou acquainted with the countiy districts around here? — A. Yes, sir, Q. What is the occupation of the people? — A. Farming, cattle rais- ing and sheep raising, and mining. Q. Farming is conducted by means of irrigation? — A. Yes, sir. Q. That is, only in the neighborhood of the river? — A. Yes, sir. Some of them are putting pumps now in the vallev, and securing water for irrigation in that way. As long as these streams prove to be what they expect them to be, there will be hundreds of pumps put on the farms in the valley. And further the witness saith not. 102 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. F. D. Hunt, called as a witness and, tirst having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: , Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. Mv name is F. D. Hunt. Q. And how old are you, Mr, Hunt^ — A. I am 27 years old. Q. How lono- have you lived here at Las Crucesi! — A. One year. Q. Where did you come herefrom? — A. From southern California, Q. You are the editor of the American paper here? — A, Yes, sir. Q, What is the name of it? — A. The Las Cruces Progress. Q. What is your circulation ? — A. It is about 300, NEWSPAPERS IN LAS CRUCES. By Senator Dillingham: Q, How many papers are there here? — A. Five published here, Q, What are the names of them? — A. The Las Cruces Progress, my paper; The Rio Grande Republican; they are entirely American; The Las Cruces Citizen, half English and half Spanish, and El Tiempo, Spanish, and El Labrador, Spanish. Q, Can you give the circulation of each of them? — A. No, sir; I can not. And further the witness saith not. Marcel Valdez, called as a witness and. lirst having been duly sworn, testified as follows: B}^ the Chairman: Q, You may state 3'our name to the committee. — A, My name is Marcel Valdez, Q. And your age? — A. Fifty-three." Q, Are you a native New Mexican ? — A. No, sir, Q. Where were you born ? — A, J was born in the State of Chihuahua. Q. How long have you been here? — A, About thirty-two or thirty- three years. Q. What is your business? — A, Editor of a paper, Q. What is the name of it? — A. El Tiempo, sir; 21 years old. Q. [Holding up a newspaper.] Is this the paper? — A, Yes, sir, Q. It is published in Spanish? — A. Yes, sir, Q, What is the circulation of your paper? — A, About nine hundred. Q. I see printed here, among other things, the official vote of Donna Ana County; that is in Spanish, too? — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. Francis E, Lester, called as a witness, and, having duly affirmed to testify to the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth relating to the matters and things in hearing before the committee, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee, — A. My name is Francis E, Lester, Q. And your age is what? — A, M}' age is 32, Q. And what is your business? — A, Registrar of the college, and in charge of the work in English-Spanish stenography, Q, How long have you lived down here? — A, Twelve years. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 103 ENGLISH-SPANISH STENOGRAPHY. Q. Do you teach Euolish-Spanish stenog-raphy at the college'^ — A. Yes, sir. Q. How many .students have you taking stenography? — A. We have now 18. And further the witness saith not. Allen J. Papen, called as a witness, and, lirst having been duly sworn, testitied as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. My name is Allen J. Papen. Q. How old are you I — A. 1 am 32. Q. How long have you been here? — A. Twenty-two years in New Mexico; nine years in Las Cruces. Q. The committee ol)serves that this is a heavily Mexican country, so called? — A. It is a majority Mexicans; yes, sir. circulation of newspapers. Q. What is the proportion of Spanish and American newspapers going through your office — you are the postmaster here? — _A. Yes, sir; T am the postniaster. There ai'e two English, two Spanish, and one half Spanish and half English. Q. What is the proportion in which they go through your office? — A. I think they are about equally divided; I do not know that there is very much difference in pound weight. Q. "Have you examined that question? — A. No, sir; I have not. I am the editor of one of the newspapers here myself. Q. What is your paper? — A. The Republican. Q. What is your circulation? -A. My circulation is 650. By Senator Dillingham: LANGUAGE OF COUNTRY PEOPLE. Q. How long have you been postmaster? — A. About five months. Q. Do you speak Spanish? — A. Yes, sir. Q. The people who come to your office, j^ou can sj^eak to them in English or Spanish either? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Do people come to your office from the countr}^ districts? — A. Yes, sir; for four or live or six miles. Q. The people from the country districts speak what language when they come for their mail? — A. Why, usually Spanish. And further the witness saith not. Elias E. Day, called as a witness, and first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You mav state vour name to the committee. — A. Mv name is Elias E. Day."^ Q. And your age and occupation? — A. Age, 39; occupation, mer- chant; also, superintendejit of schools of Donna Ana County. Q. When were you elected? — A. In November, two years ago. Q. How many schools have you in the county? — A. Nineteen dis- tricts, 20 schools. lUi NEW STATEHOOD KILL. Q. HoAv inaiiy schools in this town'^ — A. Two schools. Q. The rest arc out in the country districts? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you a list of the teachers? — A. No; 1 have not. Q. Can you give them, hurriedly? — A. Yes, sir; I think so. M. A. Molina. Mrs. L. C. Woodson, Mrs. L. L. Brown, Miss Lottie Sweet, Miss Nora Newberry, Miss Lillie Costales, Mrs. J. C. Chaves, Mr. Adrian Conzales, Miss Sophia Gilchrist, Miss Eulalie Ogoz, Miss Eliz- abeth Foster. Q. Are those the teachers in town, now? — A. No, sir, 1 am going around over the country; there are only four or live teachers here. Sister Mary of Mercy, at the Mesilla school; Miss Alma Sweet, Mrs. Sarah Edwards, Mrs. Lily Robinson, Miss Blanche Bailey, Miss Vivette Davis. 1 think that is all I remember. ENUMERATION OF PUPILS. Q. How many pupils are there in town here?^ — A. Do you mean the enumeration ? Q. No, sir; actually in school. — il. lean not tell you exactly;! think in the neighborhood of 350 in the town, now in the public schools. Q. How many in the county in the public schools ( — A. In the whole county, something like 1,650. Q. In the lower branches both Spanish and English are taught up to the second reader, are they ? — A. In some of the schools. And further witness saith not. Martinez Amador voluntarily appeared as a witness, and tii'st hav- ing been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. Martinez Ama- dor is my name. Q. Where do you live? — A. I live here in Las Cruces. Q. Are you a "native of this Territory ?— A. No, sir; I am a native of the Republic of Mexico. Q. How long have you been here? — A. Well, I am 64 years old; I come here when I was 9 years old. Q. Where do you live; in this county^ — A. Yes, sir. Q. Are vou a farmer? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Your farm is near what water stream ^— A. Near the Rio Grande. Q. Do you farm by irrigation? — A. By irrigation entirely. SUFFER FROM WANT OF WATER. Q. Is your farm all watered regularly?— A. No, sir; we have been suffering' a great deal for water. Since the railroad came here there is so nuich population above, it cuts all our water here. We have been suti'ering, and we lose our farms, and we lose a good many thousand dollars on that account. I have a good deal of a farm here myself. I got here 300 acres of land and I can not raise nothing on account of water. I lose my orchard, and lose nearh^ the whole thing. Q. How far do you live from town? — A. I live here in this city. That place where you eaten your dinner to-day, that is my residence, right on this side. NEW STATEHOOD BTLL. 105 CAN NOT DEPEND ON RAIN. Q, The committee understands that farmino- can not be done away from the streams i' — A. Well, in this country it is very dry. They won't raise nothing if there is no water from the river, you know: we can not depend on rains at all; it don't rain here enough. Q. And the committee understands from other witnesses that stock raising i.s possible 5 miles from the water hole or water stream; is that correct? — A. Yes, sir. Well, they all get the water up there in the mountains in the springs, but it ain't been enough water to water a big stock of cattle. NATIVES NOT READY FOR STATEHOOD. Q. Is there any statement which you want to make to the com- mittee? — A. Well, I want, if you will allow^ me, to make a statement about our population. My people all belong to the Mexican race. The}" come from old Mexico, and I think our people is not able now to support statehood, because most of the people here is ignorant; and I do not think we are ready to support statehood yet for about ten years, until our children grow up. We got good schools now, and we send our children to school, and they doing well; but the old resi- dents are mosth" Mexicans, you know. You take them in the election time, and you take thein what you call the emblem; the}" go b}" that, and they do not know who they vote for. The}^ do not know who is on the ticket — the majority of that kind of people. As a consequence^ I think there is one great fault of our people — they have not got education, the old timers; the old timers, like me. 1 never been in the schools, except the primary schools, you know, but 1 been picking up here and there to know just the little I know now, and that is about all; l)ut 1 never l)een in the schools. My children are all well educated. They have Ijeen to school in St. Louis and they have been in the schools here. My children, they are able to support statehood and compete with the majority as far as people, 3'ou know, but the others. 1 am ver}- sorry to say it, they are not able to do that. The remainder of the questions propounded to the witness, and the answers thereto, were made through the medium of the official inter- preter of the committee. '•MANY DO NOT KNOW WHAT STATEHOOD IS." Q. What is the feeling of the people, the native Mexicans out in the country, like yourself, about this subject? — A. There are a good man}" that do not know what statehood is. They do not know the difference between a State and a Territory. The greater part of them do not know how to write or read. Q. You live out in the country; now in the campaigns are there speeches made out there to j^our people? — A. Yes; they have some speeches, but it is always in Spanish when they have campaign speeches. Sometimes they speak in English, and then they have an interpreter to interpret it to them. And further the witness saith not. 106 NEW statp:h<)od bill. John J. Vkknon, called as a witness, and first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: B}' the Chairmak: Q. You may state to the connnittee your name, 3^our age, and your occupation. — A. My name is John J. Vernon; 33 years old; professor of agriculture in the New Mexico Agricultural CoUeg-e. Q. You have a well running out there? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What is the purpose of sinking an artesian well when you are so near the Rio Grande? — A. It is not an artesian well; the purpose is to supplement the river when it dries. RIVER DRIES UP. Q. Does the river dry up? — A. It does. Q. How many of tliose wells are there? — A. 1 know of four in this vicinity. Q. Are they all running like yours? — A. There are none of them pumping as much water as ours. Q. Have you reported it to the Department of Agriculture? — A. No, sir. Q. Wliat time in the year does the rivei- dry ?— A. It generally dries in the middle or hitter part of June, and then w^e may have a short drought or a long one. FLOW OF RIVER DEPENDS ON RAIN AND SNOW FALL, Q. The committee understands that the fiow of the river depends upon the rainfall or snowfall in the mountains? — A. Yes, sir; that is right. Q. And there are ^^ears when the insuthciency of that rain and snow fall makes the river go dry?— A. Yes, sir. There are years when the river does not go dry. Q. In those years the irrigation can be conducted? — A. Yes, sir. Q. This well out here is what is called an experiment? — A. It is; yes, sir. SPANISH AND ENGLISH TAUGHT. Q. The committee noticed down there in the bulletins put up at the college — bulletins of examination — that examinations were made in English and examinations in Spanish. You teach Spanish out there, as well as English, do you? — A. Yes, sir; we have a course in Spanish. By Senator Dillingham: Q. How deep is that well?— A. Forty-eight feet from the surface of the ground. Q. How large a pipe did vou sink? — A. A 6-inch pipe. Q. What did you find at the depth of 48 feet?— A. After al)out 7 feet of soil it is a sand until we strike the gravel and sand stratum, and that is 12 feet thick; and we have a 12-foot perforated strainer. It is not the ordinary strainer; it is an open hole a quarter of an inch wide and an inch and a half long, and it lets all the sand in and leaves the gravel out. By the Chairivian: Q. How many students have you? — A. About 200. Q. How many in attendance now? — A. About 200 now. NEW STATEH()()D BILL. 107 ONE THOUSAND (GALLONS A MINUTK. By Senator Heitfelu: Q. Wiisit is the capacit^^ of your pumps?— A. We have tested a number of pumps: a thousand gallons per minute is our capacity. Q. Is tiie supply of water sufficient for that?— A. I believe it is. We have pumped thirty hours, and the vacuum gauge showed the same as at the beginning. Q. How much will that supply?— A. We believe that we can cover from this well loC acres, without the use of the river. Q. Is that a sort of a subterranean stream?— A. I think it is in the sand and gravel altogether. DRY SEASON AFFECTS THE WELL. Q. Have you any idea of whether a dry season would affect the well materially?— A. Yes, sir; it makes a difference. When the river is running and when it is not it makes a difference of nearly 2 feet. When the water was in the river the water stood within 6 inches of the pipe that you saw. and now it stands within about 2 feet of it. Q. Have yoii experienced any great droughts since you sank that -^ell? — A. It was sunk this year, and this is considered a dry year. Last year we had no drought. By the Chairtvian: Q. What is the largest crop you raise here? — A. Alfalfa. And further the witness saith not. Martin Lohman, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: Bv the Chairman: Q. You may state to the committee your name, your age, and what your businesses. — A. My name is Martin Lohman; my age is 48; busi- ness almost everything- — general merchandising, tiouring mill, and cattle. Q. You getyour wheat for your mill from what section? — A. Right here. (tREAt advancement. Q. How long have you been here? — A. Twenty-six years. Q. The committee would be glad to hear any statement that you have to make concerning affairs here. — A. I do not know exactly on what lines you want my statement. During the time I have been here there has been great ad\ancement. There was no school here when I came here except the Catholic convent. To-day there is T<»0 scholars right in this town. The schools have advanced a great deal. We have done it ourselves without any aid from the National Government. I venture to say that the Government has done more for the Porto Kicans in the last two years than they have for the New Mexicans in the past fifty years. I "believe our people are as law abiding as they are any place. Q. What is the extent of your business?— A. Probably $150,000 a 3"ear. Q. Do you sell to people who live around in the country here ( — A. Ri^ht here in this vicinity. Q. How many clerks have you? — A. I have seven in the store. 108 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. Do they s])Oiik both Spiinish and English? — A. All of them but one. Q, And ho speaks what? — A. Onl}^ Spanish. Q. Do YOU speak Spanish also? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Among- the customers who come into your store what proportion of the lang-uage i,s used? — A, Well, this is a Mexican country. I should judge two-thirds. Q. Are you familiar with the family life of the people here? — A. Yes, sir. Q. The conmiittee observed to-day in driving past the schools that the children at play in the schoolyards were using the Spanish lan- guage. What is the language used by the people in their own homes when the children go home at night? — A. Well, 3"0u might say the Mexicans would use the Spanish language and the Americans the English. It is a surprise even to me the amount of English used bj' the Mexicans here. AGRICULTURE DP^PENDS ON IRRIGATION. Q. With reference to your business people here, this is an agricul- tural, stock-raising, and mining county, the committee understands? — A. Yes, sir; but agricultural principally. Q. That depends upon the irrigation?— A. Yes, sir. WHEN THE RIO GRANDE RUNS DRY. Q. What season of the year does the Rio (Irande run dry ? — A. Well, it generally runs dry about July, I believe. Q. The committee was told by one of the witnesses that it went diy in June. — A. Well, that may be. I am not much of a farmer. Q. The agriculture depends entirely upon irrigation, does it not? — A. Yes, sir; entirely. Q. Not upon rainfall? — A. Yes, sir; although there has never been a failure of our wheat crop on account of the shortage of water in all of the twentj^-six years 1 have been here. A(iRICULTURE SUPPORTS COMMUNITY. By Senator Dillingham: Q. What supports this city or village? What are the industries that go to support this comnumit}"? — A. Agriculture principally. There are four or five smaller towns above and four or hve below that sup- port this town. We have raised last year, I should think, 20,000 tons of alfalfa. Q. That is the chief agricultural product? — A. Yes, sir; valued at $10 a ton. Q. It is feed for live stock, is it not? — A. Yes sir. Q. Alfalfa is the most easily raised crop, is it not^ — A. Yes, sir; and three or four to five cuttings. Q. The committee understands that there may be a number of cut- tings for each year and not exhaust the land? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Now% the committee would be pleased to have 3'^ou make anj'' statement that you would like to make. — A. Well, J am heartily in NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 109 favor of statehood, and I think that 95 per cent of our people here are — Mexicans and Americans alike. And further the Avitness saith not. And here, at the hour of 3 oV-lock p. ni., the further hearing of testi- mony was adjourned to ])e resumed at El Paso, Tex. Sheldon Hotel, /;/ ]*)serve, scarceh' noticeable. Lincoln County is almost entirely a grazing and mining county, and is largely a Mexican county. The Mexican element predominates there. My juries in Lincoln County will run aV)out from — well, I do not think I ever have less than eight out of twelve that are *" Mexicans," and so7ue- times more than that. Q. In that county you have an interpreter? — A. Yes. sir; all the work is done through an interpreter. The juries in that county — very few of the Mexican jurors understand the English language at all. and all the work is done through the interpreter; the taking of testimony, the charging of the court, and the sununing up of counsel. NEW STATEHOOD HILL. Ill Q. When the juiy take the ease for consideration does it become necessary to have an interpreter in the jury room? — A. Ver}^ fre- quently, yes, sir. The interpreter, the clerk, the stenoo-rapher. and the marshal are all sworn, and they all go around with me in all of the courts. SOCORRO COUNTY. Q. Well, you may pass on to the next county. — A. Socorro is ver}" much the same as Lincoln County. It has between nine and ten mil- lions of acres. It is about one-third of the size of New York State. It extends east and west 175 miles, and north and south 50 or 60 miles. It is almost given up to sheep raising. The American Valley has a valley there of more than a million acres, and they have cattle in there. In Lincoln County their grazing is owned by four large cattle com- panies, chieliy the Block Ranch and three others. The Block Ranch own a territorv that is probablv 4<» l)v 6() miles. Thev run i)erhaps 30,000 head ofcattle. Q. In the county last named, what about the population there? — A. The ratio? .MEXICAN ELEMENT PREDOMINATES. Q. Yes, sir; the ratio. — A. Oh. the Mexican element very largely predominates. The ratio on juries is about the same as in Lincoln. Q. And there is the same need of an interpreter i — A. Yes, sir. In cases, however, not before the court they are held in ])usiness to be tried before a jury. Q. And you iind very few of that class that understand the English language? — A. Very few of those that are of mature years who can sit on a juiy. Once in a while yon can tind a l)right, capable man among them that understands the English very well; but even then they prefer to have an interpreter, l)ecause the}' think and act from a Latin standpoint entirely. HOLD STRICTLY TO THEIR LANGUAGE. They have been educated and taught in that manner, and they hold very strictly to their language. There have been very little educa- tional advantages. The Federal Government has done comparatively nothing for the people of this Territory in their schools, and they have put no limitation upon them as to the right to hold office or serve on juries; and that can not be done by the Federal (xoxernment now. There was a little attempt to have that apply to the Federal jurorr3. PROTEST AGAINST KNOWLED(}E OF EXGLISH AS A REQUIREMENT FOR JURORS IN UNITED STATES COURTS. The bar, it seemed, here took up that matter, and through the influ- ence of their leaders they passed a resolution and sent it to Congress protesting against the requirement of the Englisli language as a quali- fication for jurors in the United States courts. 112 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. What about the schools in thase counties '^— A. Well, that I am not very well posted on; it is only in the most general way. This term of court at Lincoln the teacher boarded at the same hotel where I was, and sat at the same table, and I talked with her quite a little. She has about 00 scholars; she told me that very few^ of them could speak the English language. PUPILS SPEAK SPANISH IX VACATION. They will learn a little through the school year, and through the vacation they intermingle among themselves, and they speak the Spanish language; and their people hold to it. Q. Have you spoken of all the counties in your district t — A. Yes, sir. CRIMINAL CASES. Q. What is the general class or classes of litigation that come into your courts :< — A. On the criminal side of the docket, probably 50 per cent of the criminal cases are the larceny of stock, cattle, horses, sheep, mules, and goats. For all of which the penalty is very heavy. The punishment is up to what would be equivalent to about fifteen years; that is, a line of $.5,000 and imprisonment in the penitentiary for five years, and the minimum is one year in the penitentiary and |500 fine, which is equivalent to about five years and a half. THE CARRYING OF DEADLY W^EAPONS. ■Q. What crime comes next? — A. The carrying of deadly weapons. That is a misdemeanor here, and there are quite a good many indicted. They are seeking to do away with the carrying of deadly weapons. There is a statute here that allows a traveler to carry a revolver, but he must unmount his gun, as they sa}^ here, when he comes into an inhabited village, or a settlement. Q. What do they consider a settlement? — A. The statute that covers that question has declared that what is meant by a settlement is a single house, or more. Q. He must take his gun off when he reaches a settlement? — A. Yes, sir, CIVIL CASES. Q. Now, as to the civil side of your docket, Judge; how do the cases on that side run? — A. Well, the civil side of the docket, that is very much as it is in the Eastern States — it covers all classes of litiga- tion. There is not a great deal of mining law; there is not a great deal of irrigation law, but some; I have had but very little mining and irrigation litigation before me, but I have had some. 1 have had some chancery proceduie before me, in regard to the division of prop- erty and estates, and the settlement of estates; and I have had a good many actions upon contract, and the ordinary commercial business. There is also a great deal of divorce in the Territory. EASY TO OBTAIN A DIVORCE. There is probably no place in the world where a divorce is so easily obtained as it is in the T'erritorv of New Mexico. The moment that a NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 113 inair.s wife puts her shawl on her head and says to him "I am tired of livin^>- with you: I am o'oiiig- home to my mother,"" he is entitled to and may secure a divorce under the laws of this Territory. He can get a divorce from her in twenty-tive days after that kind of an adandon- ment. and the divorced wife may be carrying the offspring of her late husband to a second husband within thirty days after she has left the tirst one. ABANDONMENT THE PRINCIPAL GROUNDS. Of all of the divorce cases which have come before me since I have been on the bench all. with one or two exceptions only, have been based upon a))andonment. Q. And there is no time required that the abandonment shall have continued to entitle the applicant to a divorce on that ground, then i — A. No, sir; any abandonment proven by the words spoken, and because she has left his bed and board is sufficient cause. For people not resi- dents of the Territory one year's residence in the Territory is required. B3" the Chairman: Q. How long does it take them to become citizens of the Terri- tory; to vote? — A. Six months. And further the witness saith not. And here, at the hour of 8 o'clock p. m., the committee arose, to resume hearings at some point in the Territory of New Mexico, to be later determined. On Train near Carlsbad, N. Mex., Fridaii, Xoreinhtr ^21^ 1902 — 9 j)- m. After leaving the above-named town the committee resumed hearing of testimony relative to the question of the admission of the Territory of New Mexico as a State, and heard the testimony of the following- citizens of Carlsbad: Francis Gallatin Tracy, called as a witness, and tirst having been dul}' sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state to the committee your name and your business. — A. My name is Francis Gallatin Tracy; I am president and manager of the Pecos Irrigation Company. Q. How long have you held that position? — A. I have been for two years in that position. Q." What is the Pecos Valley Irrigation Company? — A. That is a company organized to impound the waters out of running streams and to sell them in the way of water rights and for rentals: and to buy and sell land, Iniild reservoirs, and build canals. Q. How long has the company been in operation? — A. The present company will be two years next February, but the plant, through various reorganizations, has been in operation since 1891. Q. What is the mileage of your main canal now actually carrying water? — A. Now actually in use? Q. Yes, sir; actually in use to-day. — A. It is between 25 and 30 miles; I can not tell you exactl}^, because it has a channel that meanders. H s B 8 114 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. You have a channel that i.s longer than that^ — A. Yes, sir; 4u miles. Q. How many acres have you under cultivation f — A. We have 12,500 acres that almost every acre got crops this year. KINDS OF CROPS RAISED. Q. What is the nature of the crops raised on that land'^ — A. Chiefly alfalfa and Kaffir corn. There is some cotton and fruit of various kinds, and various kinds of vegetables; but the main crops are the fodder crops. Q. The alfalfa being the chief fodder crop^ — A. Yes, sir. Q. The object of the agriculture is to supplement the grazing qualities of the country? — ^A. Yes, sir; to aid it, to supplement it. Q. This valley, then, is essentially a stock-raising valley? — A. Yes, sir; in the first instance. We raise, though, a very fine quality of fruit, and, eventually, I believe that the valley will rank very high on that product. We have been in competition with California and other districts, both in apples and peaches, and we have never been surpassed in the prices that we get in the market. Q. Is your water drawn from the Pecos River? — A. Yes, sir; w^e have two dams across that river. Q. The Pecos River is the river we have been traveling along. all afternoon, is it? — A. Yes, sir. It has a watershed of 250 miles long above here, and about 60 miles wide. WHAT SUPPORTS CARLSBAD. By Senator Dillingham: Q. What supports this town? — A. The main support of the town, sir. is the live-stock interests of the surrounding country; the farming interests, of course, also support it, but the main support is the live- stock interests, sir. We shipped 10,000 cattle here last year, and a million pounds of wool. We have a wool-scouring plant. Q. What is the nearest town? — A. The nearest town is Roswell, 75 miles away. Q. You have the trade of the surrounding territory? — A. Yes, sir; we secure a trade in all directions for -lO or 50 miles. Q. What is your water supply for this town ? — A. It is from wells 3 miles south of town; it is a pure lime water. Q. Are those what are known as the springs? — A. No, sir; that is an underground flow. Q. Have you springs in addition ;;— A. Yes, sir; we have the springs springs on the banks of the Pecos. That is how it gets its name. Q. What is the population of your tow^n? — A. The town has a population of about 1.500. We have not had a census very lately. By the Chairman: Q. What did the census of li>00 show? — A. I can not tell you the exact figures; the Census Commissioner is on here. By Senator Dillingham: Q. Have you a sufficient amount of water to make irrigation reliable from year to year over this territorj'^ of which you have spoken ? — A. Yes, sir: I think the water supply here is almost uidimited if you could store sufficient. The floods here are enormous. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 115 WATER STORAGE. Q. Can you store sufficient, or are you .storing- sufficients — A. We are storino- sufficient for double the acreage which we have under cultivation. But that can be indefinitely extended by other reservoirs. Q. What is the cost of the irrigation to a farm, say, of 160 acres S — A. Do you mean the value of the water? COST OF IRRIGATION. Q. Yes, sir; what is the annual charge for water? — A. We charge them $1.25 an acre. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. What is the source of the water for your irrigation here? — A. We have two dams across the Pecos River, one 11 miles north and the other 6 miles. Q. What are they ? — A. One is the storage reservoir, the upper one, and the other one is just the one from which the canal is headed and the water diverted. The combined capacit}^ is 80,000 acre-feet. They are arrived at by two dams of about the same length, 1,100 feet long and about 15 feet high each. They are rock-filled dams, and have ample spillway to spill the fiood. We have floods that run to 20,000 acre-feet in this valley. Q. What is your investment in this plant!'- A. The construction account alone was nearlv $2,000,000, and the companv was originally incorporated for $1,750,000 and bonded for $900,000. ' By the Chairman: Q. Is there anything else that 3'ou think of that you would like to say to this committee? — A. No, sir; I think not, sir. And further the witness saith not. L. O. Fullen, called as a witness, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Please state to the committee your name, age, and business. — A. L. O. Fullen; age, 30; postmaster, and editor of the Argus, and engaged in sheep raising. Q. How long have 3'ou been down here? — A. In the Pecos Valley twelve years. Q. Where did you come here from? — A. From western Kansas. Q. What is the circulation of your paper ? — A. About eight hundred. Q. It is an English paper, is it not? — A. Yes, sir. Q. The population of Carlsbad is practically all American, is it not ? — A Yes. sir; you might say it is wholly; there are 15 Mexican voters in the county. Q. What was the population by the census of 1000? — A. Less than a thousand. Q. You sa}' you are engaged in sheep raising? — A. Yes, sir. sheep raising. Q. Does the raising of sheep successfully require the raising of alfalfa for them? — A. No, sir. 116 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. They use .simply the g-rass off the open country? — A. Yes. sir. Q. How many sheep are o-razed in this county? — A. In the adjoin- ing country then' is probably 150,0(»0 head of sheep. By Senator Dillingham: Q. We understand that this town is supported by its agriculture and herding- stock? — A. Yes, sir. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. Do you use the alfalfa for winter feed or fo rfattening cattle? — A. For fattening cattle. Q. How many cattle have j^ou here? — A. I do not know that I can answer that; I do not know. The cattle interests and the sheep inter- ests are verj- equalh' divided in this county. By the Chairman: Q. Have you any statement in addition to the answers you have given to this connuittee, which you desire to make I — A. We would like to have some voice in the selection of the men who rule over this Territory. As it is now we are absolutelv voiceless. Q. You do not entirely mean that, now, do you? You vote for members of the legislature, and so on. — A. Yes, sir; Init I mean our judiciary and our governor. These men come here and do man}- things wrong, and they have to answer to nobody. If they have sufficient influence to secure their appointment, thev have sufficient influence to hold their places in spite of everything. Q. Now, upon that subject, what have you to say about the present judiciary of the Territory? — A. I think it is good except the flfth judicial district. We have charges against the judge of this district on file in Washington. They were filed by a committee, of which Mr. Tracy and I are members, and we think we could substantiate them if we could get a hearing, but we can not get it. That is one reason for our grievance. Now, if that man was elected by the people he would have to answer to the people. He could not go on and make himself obnoxious and not be in danger of losing his position. Now, that is the principal fault that we find. SCHOOLS. By Senator Dillingham: Q. What about the schools here ? — A. We have good schools. Q. How many pupils in your village? — A. In the city schools we have a school population — it is about four or five hundred. Q. How" many teachers have you? — A. Six teachers, I think, in the cit}" school building. Ever}- district in the county has schools. By the Chairman: Q. How often do you have rains here? — A. Our rainy season is June, Jul}-, and August. DO NOT DEPEND ON RAIN. Q. You do not depend upon the rain for vour agriculture at all, do you?— A. Not at all. And further the witness saith not. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 117 James O. Cameron, called as a witness, first having been duly sworn, testitied as follows: By Senator Burnham: Q. You ma}' state your name to the committee. — A. James O. Cameron. Q. You are an attorney? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Are you a sheep raiser, too? — A. Yes, sir; I raise some sheep and some cattle. Q. What do you want to tell us? — A. 1 just simply want to register the fact that the people 1 represent want statehood. Q. Have 3'ou reasons for that? Can you give this committee any information? — A. Yes, sir. My idea is that this country is in a fair way; it is beginning to develop. I have lived in the valley here thirteen years, and I have lived here during the whole of the develop- ment of the country. IMMIGRATION. There is now starting in a good immigration and a good develop- ment in the country. Q. Where is that from? — A. All over the United States. I believe that the fact is that the immigration here now most of it comes from the Middle States. The immigration heretofore has been largely from Texas and Missouri, and some from the Southern States. Q. Where are you from? What other fact have you to give us? — A. 1 think if we could get statehood it would encourage the immigra- tion here and aid the development of this countrv here. Q. Why do you think that!'— A. For this reason: That there is a great many people throughout the country that do npt have a proper idea of a Territorial government. B3' the Chairman: Q. I think jon might help the committee more if you would give us some facts and information. — A. Of course 1 am all the time here up and down this railroad in my business, and 1 am seeing the people that are coming in and looking into affairs w4th a view to coming in here to settle, and of course I talk with them. INQUIRIES AS TO TERRITORY. And the}' naturally begin to inquire about things. One thing they always inquire about is how our officers are here, how we select them. Well, of course, now. our officers here are appointed and sent here. Q. What local officers have you appointed and sent here?^ — A. No local officers are appointed. They ask about our judiciary, and of course our judges are all appointed. Q. How many people have you had to ask you? Who asked you if 3'our judiciary was appointed? — A. Well, I would say half of them who inquired about the country; knowing that I am a lawyer, they generally drifted into that subject. Q. They all learn that you are a lawyer, do they ? — A. That nat- uralh' comes up, because they want to know what a man's business is. 1 do not know that 1 have anv facts further than this. Q. Do you raise anything outside of alfalfa and fodder and fruit J — A. No. sir. Q. There is no mining in this district? — A. No, sir. 118 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. AGRICULTURE AND GRAZING. Q. It is purely agriculture and g-razing :■ — A. Yes, sir. Q. Within your personal knowledge, what has been 3'our increase in immigration within the last two j^ears? — A. Well, sir, where my ranch is located, within the last two years, quite a large number — what I mean by a large number — 1 would sa}^ that the population has increased 25 per cent by immigration coming in. Q. Do you remeniljer what your school registration or enumeration was in Carlsbad two years ngoi — A. No; I do not. Q. Do you know what it is now? — A. No. sir, Q. What do j^ou mean by in the neighborhood of your ranch? — A. Well, that is in the northwestern corner of this counh^ 50 miles from Carlsbad. Before, there were perhaps, I should say, 4:0 little farms along on a little stream there, and to-day that has increased to per- haps 50 or 60.. The farms haye been increased, not bj^ those farms being diyided up, but b}^ new settlers coming in. Q. How large are those fai-ms? — A. Well, sir, those farms will range from 100 acres in cultiyation on down to 5. And further the witness saith not. William C. Reiff, first haying been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. My name is William C. Reifl'. Q. And your age is w^hat? — A. Fifty-seyen jeavs old last week. By Senator Burnham: Q. Were you a census enumerator at the last census? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And your district included what? — A. The southern half of this county. Q. How many people were included in your enumeration? — A. I can not tell you; in the south half of Carlsbad Ave haye 745, and 400 or 500 around there. Q. Did you take an oath to make a complete and accurate enumera- tion of the people in your district? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you comply with it;! — A. Yes, sir; I did. CENSUS enumeration PERFECT. Q. And your return of the number of persons in your district was perfect, was it? — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. R. W. Tansill, first haying !)een duh' sworn, testified as follows: B}' the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. My name is R. W. Tansill. Q. And you may state your age, and your occupation, and how long you haye been here at Carlsl)ad. — A. 1 came here in September, 1888. Q. Did you come here for your health? — A. Yes, sir; I came here for my health. 1 was 44 years of age. I was born in 1844, in Virginia. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 1]9 Q. What is your business^— A. My business was the cig-ar business. Q. Wliat is "your business here? — A. I have no business here. I came here andl became interested in thing's, and I took some interest in the irrigation company, and 1 have some interest in some patches of land. Q. The committee has heard from the president of tlie irrigation company concerning that. We understand, also, that the population of this county is practically all American'^ — A. Yes, sir. Q. And that the occupation of the people here is chiefly agriculture and grazing ^ — A. Yes, sir. Q. And that the agriculture is supplemental to the cattle-raising and sheep-raising industries? — A. Yes, sir; that is right. Q. Now, sir, if there is anything which you can state to the com- mittee in addition to that we would like to have you do so. — A. I receive a great deal of correspondence. My name has gone out — has appeared on a great deal of the literature that has gone out from this county, and the}^ have written me about it. It is true the country is developing very rapidly now. You take Roswell. When I came here in 1888 it was a town of 900 inhabitants; it has now 4,000 or •±,200. This town, I have said a good many times, there was nothing here but jack rabbits and prairie dogs. My wife has named the town both times. EXTENT OF LAND UNDER IRRIGATION. Q. I believe you stated that there was about 12,500 acres under irrigation here?— A. Yes. sir; that is right at Carlsbad. Q. How many schools have you in Carlsbad? — A. I think there are three. Q. Have you any high school in Carlsbad? — A. I won't be certain for that. Q. Do you remember how many teachers you have in Carlsbad? — A. I do not know exactly. It has been stated to you, of course, that we are law-abiding citizens down here. I leave my doors all open at night and all those things, and we feel perfectly safe in this county. We have good officers here, so far as our sheriti's and so on are con- cerned; in fact, I feel much more comfortable here, so far as safety is concerned, than I would in Chicago. MANY COME FOR THEIR HEALTH. Q. Do many people come here for their health? — A. Yes, sir; a veiy large per cent of the people come here for their health. They come here for their health, and they have been greatly l)enetited, and they stay here, and make our Ix'st citizens. Did I tell you that a man came direct from Paris, France, with his family, for their healthj And another ladv came directly from New York City last night. She is a splendid lady, by the way, and highly connected. And the healthful- ness of our climate brings a great many tine people. CLIMATE. Q. Is the trouble that people come here for mainly trouble with the lungs!'— A. Yes, sir; mainly for that. This is a splendid climate for nervous trouble, too. Q. What is your altitude?— -A. Thirty-one hundred and fifty feet. 120 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. If there are aii}^ other facts you desire to la,y before the commit- tee, or any information other than what you know has been given us, you may give them. — A. I am not going to dwell upon this statehood proposition, and I really do not know anything that 1 can add to what has been said. If you can lead out on any questions, I will ])e glad to answer them. And further the witness saith not. efAMES O. Cameron, recalled, testified as follows: PROPERTY VALUES INCREASED. By the Chairman: Q. Have you any further facts to present? — A. There is one fact that occurs lo me. ^ 1 can not tell what the increase in population has been in the last two years in Eddy County, but I know that values of property have increased in the county in the last two years 38^ per cent. That is due to the more competent and high class of immigrants, and more immigration than we have had before. A property which sold in the town of (Jarlsbad for $800 two years ago, ^S,50o was refused for it last month. Q. What property was that? — A. A town lot there in town. Q. How large was that lot? — A. Twenty-five feet front. Q. Do you think of any other fact?— A"^. The assessed valuation of the county has increased in the last three years, according to our assessment rolls, in the neighborhood of $500,000. Now, you asked me about the schools. I, of course, have some children going to school, and in a general way I pay attention to those schools. I think I am correct in stating our population — that is, our ordinary attendance in the public schools' at Cftrlsl)ad— is 400 now, of which schools, all over the county the schools have increased. I am very well acquainted with the school superintendent. AN AMERICAN COUNTY. Q. This is one of the counties known as an American county, is it? — A. Yes, sir. I do not think we have over six Mexican taxpayers 4n the county. I practice law. and there has been only one term of court in twelve years where there has been a Mexican sat on the jury. There was one term of court when there was two Mexicans on the jury. I think 95 per cent of the population of Eddy County is white people. Q. Do you have an interpreter in your court? — A. No, sir; we do not need an interpreter for our juiy only when there is a Spanish- speaking witness. I believe that a larger per cent than that of the voting population are Americans, and most all are native-born Ameri- cans; very few of them are foreign-born people. Q. How long have you had this railroad here?— A. This railroad was })uilt into Carlsbad in 1S1>1, and went on through to Roswell in 1894. The increase in Chaves County would be much more than in this county. And further the witness saith not. And here further hearing of testimony was adjourned to Oklahoma Territory. TERRITORY OF ARIZONA. Prescott, Ariz., Monday, JSfoi'emher 17^ 1902. At the Burke Hotel, at the above-named place and date, the com- mittee began the hearing of testimony in Arizona Territory at the hour of 9 o'clock a. m. Henry Hartin called, and first having- ])oen duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. Henry Hartin. Q. How old are you, Mr. Hartin^ — A. Twenty-three years old. Q. Are you a native of this Territory?— A. Yes, Sir; I have always lived at Prescott. Q. What was your census district? — A. Why, 1 do not remember the number of it now. Q. Was it in town here? — A. No, sir; it was in the country. Q. How far from here? — A. It run from here down to Agua Fria; down through the Black Hills. Q. Can you remember, in a rough way, what the total area and population of your district was? — A. No, sir; I can not. Q. You took an oath, did you, before entering upon your duties as census enumerator, to faithfully and honestly enumerate the people of your district? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you do that?— A. Yes, sir. CENSUS ACCURATE. Q. Your census was accurate, was it? — A. Yes, sir. OCCUPATION OF PEOPLE. Q. What was the nature of the occupation of the people out in the country districts which you enumerated^ — A. Why, mining and stock raising, and a little agriculture. Q. Where was the agriculture carried on? — A. Down on the Verde, about the head of the Verde Valley, along the river. Q. They worked the valley along the river? — X. Yes, sir, Q. Have you Ijcen pretty well over the Territory? — A. No, sir; I have been pretty well over Yavapai County, but not over the Terri- toiy. Q, How far was the irrigation taken from the river in the Verde Valley, of which you spoke? — A. Not at all; it was just along the bed of the river. Bv Senator Heitfeld: Q. How wide is the valley? — A. It was not quite a quarter of a mile; it was not, at the widest place, a quarter of a mile wide. 121 122 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. What is the stock business principalh^, cattle or sheep? — A. Cattle, and quite a few sheep. NATURE OF POPULATION. Q. Wliat is the nature of the population, American or Mexican? — A. Mostly Americans. Q. Any Mexicans? — A. There are a few Mexicans, and some Basque French. And further the witness saith not. J. J. Sanders, called as a witness, and first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairj\l\n: Q. You may state 3"our name to the committee. — A. J. J. Sanders. Q. And 3"our age? — A. Forty-two years. Q. Are you a native of this Territoiy? — A. No, sir. Q. How long have you lived here? — A. I have been here about six years and a half. Q. What was your census district; that is, were was it located? — A. It' was in the southeastern part of Yavapai County. Q. I suppose you do not remember, in the rough, the number of people in your district? — A. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,100. Q. Before 3'ou entered upon j^our duties as enumerator you took an oath to honestly, faithfully, and accurately enumerate the people in 3"our district? — A. Yes, sir. census accurate. Q. Did 3^ou do so? — A. As far as I was able. Q. Of course, 3^ou did it as far as 3"ou were able. Your census report was accurate, to the best of 3'our ability, was it? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What was the occupation of the people in 3^our district? — A. Miners, prospectors, and stock raisers. Q. What was the character of the population — as to whether it was American or Mexican, as the3" are called down here? — A. Largel3" American. I had very few Mexicans. Q. Was there anv other nationality? — A. There were a few Indians; about 20 Indians. By Senator Heitfeld: Q, Do 3"ou think that the census is complete? There are some state- ments around that the census does not do the Territor3^ justice. Do 3^ou think the census is complete? — A. No, sir; I do not. difficulty in taking census. Q. As far as 3'our district is concerned? — A. As to my district and others, we could not get over the whole county. I worked twenty- eight days of the thirty days in June from ten to eighteen hours, and 1 was played out, and 1 could not reach all the points. There was some few that I could not reach in the mountains — prospectors out in the hills. By Senator Dillingham: Q. Did you so report to the Government? — A. Well, I reported to the supervisor, verbalh'. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 123 By the Chairman: (^. Take your own district. — A. It was aliout 40 miles long- and about 10 miles wide, in the mountain country, and it was rough. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. Did the enumerators get in an^' extra time? Were the enumera- tors in this Territory given any extra time? — A. Well, I believe they did give them thirty days extra time down in Graham County. We were allowed overtime for all we worked over ten hours a day. but we w^ere not allowed any extra time. Graham County had to get extra time to get over the county. By Senator Dillingham: Q. I understand that those few whom you missed were prospectors 'i — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. Judge Richard E. Sloan, called by the committee as a witness, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Judge, please state vour name to the committee. — A. Richard E. Sloan. Q. And your official position is what? — A. Associate justice of the supreme court of Arizona and judge of the fourth judicial district. Q. How" long have you lived in the Territory? — A. I have lived in the Territory since ISSl. and in this district since 189-4. Q. Have 3"0u been in the Territory outside of the cities very much ? — A. I have been all over the Territory, in every part of it, and have held court in nearly every county in the Territor}. mining, a(jriculture. and stock raising. Q. What w^ould you state to the committee of the character of the industries of the Territory, from your observation ? — A. The indus- tries may be divided into three, practically — the mining, the agricul- tural, and the stock raising. The mining industry is the prominent one, and especially in this district. The cattle and sheep industry is improving, l)ut much less so than the mining-, except in the counties of Apache, Navajo, and Coconino. These counties are sheep growing, except in Coconino County, where the lumber industry amounts to considerable. Practically the whole county is covered by the two forest reservations, however, and in the future the lumber industry will be confined to rather narrow limits. The county of Yavapai is largely dependent upon the mines for its industries. By mining, or the industries connected with the mines, I mean the extraction of ores and the treatment of ores, millii^g and smelting. In the country south of us, in Maricopa County, that is largely agricultural. That is the count}' of which Phoenix is the (.-ounty seat, and the capital of the Territory. You will perhaps acquaint yourselves with the condi- tions there when you are there. By Senator Dillingham: Q. I think you had better state them, if you please. — A. The Salt River Valley is a magnificent empire in possibility. As j^ou will note 124 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. as you ^'o throug-h it, nature laid it out for irrigation. It does not require any preparation in order that the water may he distributed econoniieally over the land. WATER SUPPLY. We have had for a series of years a remarkable shortage of water, and for that reason the farmers have not prospered as they did in former years. The amount of land that can be utilized is practically unlimited. The water necessarily is limited. The rainfall is not such as to atiord sufficient water for all the land in the Salt Kiver Valley. However, there are possibilities for the storage of water which will be completed. If those works which are now contemplated are completed, that will add many thousands of acres to cultivation. By the Chairman: Q. That has reference to the bill before Congress with reference to an irrigation S3^stem ( — A. Yes, sir. Howeyer. there are some private enterprises contemplated, and one or two of them are partially com- pleted that will add practically to the water supply. I have reference more particularly to what is called the Agua Fria dam and the water- storage proposition there. But the great proposition is the one which the Government may construct, or I trust will conr-truct, at the point known as the Tonto Basin. That is on the Tpper Salt River. Q. That is the one in which Mr. Heard is the engineering expert down there, and is interested in his official capacity, is it not? — A. Yes, sir. I do not know whether he has any official capacity, except that he is water commissioner. The examination of this site and the report was made by Mr. Davis, who is in the Government service. Q. In the Geological Survey 'i — A. Yes. sir. Q. Will you proceed witj your statement? — A. He has reported, as I understand it. favorable, and has given an estimate of the probable co.st, which shows it to be a reasonable proposition from an economical standpoint, and so that the Government of the United States may con- struct the reservoir within the terms of the bill, and so that the con- sumers of water may utilize the water. There is some mining in Maricopa County, and some properties that are valuable, but the development is practically in its infancy. To the south and east of Maricopa is Penal County, which has most of the same features as Maricopa County. It has an abundance of very fine land, some of which has been put under cultivation, but they have no water storage there. There is an available water storage site on the Gila some distance above the town of Florence. That has been .surveyed, and estimates made of the probable cost of that by the Government, and the people there are hoping that the Government will construct a reservoir in the Gila, so as to bring in cultivation the land in that county, particularly in the hope of providing Avater for the Pima Indians, whose reservation is along the Gila River. Q. Their reservation, the committee understands, depends almost on that? — A. Yes, sir. water and PIMA INDIANS. Q. They are in a process of extinction without it? — A. Ye:?, .sir; they are almost in a destitute condition. I understand. I was at one NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 125 time familiar with tho.se Intlians. I lived in that eountv at one time. They were then in a fairly prosperous condition, for there was water for "their lands. Tliey grew wheat and the ordinary vegetables, such as pumpkins and corn "unci sciuashes; but wheat was their principal product. That is not possi1)le now. inasnuich as practically ail of the surface water Howing in the (lila has been diverted in (rraham Countv, so that the (iila, for muc-h of the year, is dry. Our water storage is absolutelv essential, not only for the preservation of the farming interests in Pinal County, but for the preservation of the Indians. There is some mining in Pinal County. The famous Silver King mine, which was operated in an early day, and from which there was extracted in the neighborhood of $!:),«JO0,600, is situated in that county. It is not now^ worked on account of the low price of silver and the fact that the rich ores have been taken from the mine. Q. Who are the owners of that mine ^ — A. It is a company, and I am not able to tell you who the leading stockholders now are. The principal office of the company is in San Francisco, Q. Take the mines of the Territory, without reference to their value on account of their metal, liut with reference to their possible output, what is the proportion of gold, silver, and copper mines ^— A. The value in dollars I presume is what you mean? Q. No, sir; that is not what I mean. I mean in bulk output; that is to say, are the larger proportion of the mines in output gold, or silver, or copper? What is the proportion — I mean to say, what is the proportion of the mineral w^ealth of the Territory, not in dollars, as it might fluctuate from time to time, ))ut in the product of the metal? — A. Of course copper is the principal product of our mines. PRODUCTION OF COPPER. We rank, as I remember it, next to Michigan no^v in production of copper. Montana is first, Michigan second, and Arizona third. Q. What is the greatest of the copper mines down here? — A. I think the Copper Queen, at Bisbee. is the largest. The production of copper is increasing in Arizona more than in Michigan or Montana. Q. Is the Copper Queen Senator Clark's mine? — A. No, sir; it is not; that is the Phelps, Dodge & Co. mine. The next is the United Verde, which is in this county, and which is the Clark property. The United Verde mine is perhaps the most proiitable mine in the Terri- tory, inasmuch as the percentage of preci(nis metals exceeds that of anv other copper mine in the Territory. Q. As a by-product?— A. Yes, sir; "it carries gold and silver. Its production, as I remember it, was something in the neighborhood of 4:(»,U(»U,0()0 pounds of copper last year. The ranking, after the United Verde— I should say that the Arizona Copper Company's mines at Bisbee rank next. Q. Who are the chief owners of that ^— A. It is owned by a Scotch company. Mr. Colquohoun is the general manager. Phelps. Dodge & Co. have properties at Bis1)ee which are. very productive. There is another company, the Shannon Copper Company mines, a new com- pany which promises to be a large producer. In addition to these mines, we have the Old Dominion, at CTlo])e. and the Black Warrior, and some other properties which produce much property. 126 NEW STATEBOOD BILL. Q. Without going into the details of the mines, can you pass, in a general way, to the silver and gold? — A. Now. copper is the principal product, both in (juantity and value, of course. PRODUCTION OF GOLD. Q. Next give us the production of the gold mines.— A. The pro- duction of the gold mines in the last year practically, as near as can be ascertained, was between S3,000,o6() and §i,00<),00(». There were but one or two silver properties that were worked for their silver alone. Silver was a by-product, and so gold and coppei are the metals which are mined bv the properties operated. The silver is a by-product except in one or two properties in Mojave County. That is the county which lies to the northwest of this county, over" toward the Colorado River, and is essentially a mountain region. There are very valuable gold discoveries there^new discoveries, practically. I should say that the value of copper would be fifteen, the value of gold would be four, the value of silver would be one and a half. Q. The silver mines are such, where the silver is not produced as a by-product of the other mines, but the essentially silver mines are not worked on account of the fact that its low price makes it not profit- able i — A. Yes, sir. PRODUCTION OF SILVER. Q. What is your judgment as to the silver-producing area in the Territory as a mining proposition? — A. It is comparatively limited as compared to copper and gold. Q. Is there any prospecting for silver down there now? — A. There is little or none. Q. The prospecting is chiefly for gold?— A. Yes, sir; and copper. By Senator Dillinc4HAm: Q. 1 did not understand your statement as to the proportions.— A. I mean to sav this: That "in proportion of 15 to 4 would be the proportion of copper to gold. In other words, if you had fifteen mil- lions in copper you would have four millions in gold and one and a half millions in silver. I did not mention Yuma County, which is in the southwestern portion of the Territory, and there are some very valuable gold mines, notably the Fortuna, King of Arizona, and some others, representing a large production of gold. About Yuma there is considerable irrigation. The water is taken from the Colorado River and applied to the land lying in the bottoms and adjacent to the river — on both sides of the river, the California side and the Arizona side — and very large irrigation works are contemplated, and will per- haps be put in operation in a comparatively short time. The land is very fertile. The climate is hot, to be sure, but it is healthful, and the" works are such as bring in a good class of people, and there is no reason to believe that farming will not be quite an industry in Yuma County. In Pima County the stock interest is quite large as well as the mining, and in Cochis'e County, w^hich is the extreme southeastern countv of1:he State, that is perhaps the greatest mining section of the Southwest. We have Tombstone, Pierce, Bisbee, and other districts that are producing very largely both in copper, gold, and silver, and on the ])order new tow'n-s h^rve sprung up as the result of the develop- •NEW statp:h()od hill. 127 ment of the copper mines in Cochise County and Sonora. We have Doug-las and Nico. The town of Douglas is not over two years old, but the vote was six or seven hundred this year. That is the smelting point for the Bisbee mines and some of the mines in Sonora, owned by Phelps, Dodge & Co. NO COAL MINED. B}^ Senator Heitfeld: Q. Is there any coal mining- in this Territory ? — A. There is no coal mined in this Territory. There is said to be some coal in Graham County that has not been developed. There is said to be a great deal of coal in Apache County, in the Navajo Reservation, which is a part of the Gallup coal fields. That is not available, and has never been opened. Outside of those two places I know of no coal in the Terri- tory. By the Chairman: Q. In vour trial of causes in the Territorial, or Federal courts either, throughout the Territory, I assume that you have not had occasion very often to have recourse to an interpreter in your courts? — A. Except in cases where we have had Mexican witnesses. In the trial of criminal causes we frequently have need for a Spanish interpreter. Q. To interpret the testimony of witnesses to the jury and to the court? — A. Yes, sir. knowledge of ENGLISH REQUIRED OF JURORS. Q. And the arguments of counsel? — A. Never, sir; never. The statute of the Territory forbids the acceptance of any man as a juror who does not understand the English language. Q. ^o that dispenses with an interpreter save where a native or Spanish-speaking witness testifies? — A. Yes, sir; or where the defend- ant who is put upon trial who is incapable of understanding or speaking the English language. Q. If there is anything you would like to speak further about, we would be glad to liear it,— A. In the first place, our statutes make it very easy for the best citizens to get excused from our juries. The exemption statutes are very liberal, and our statutes as to the qualili- cations of jurors are liberal; so that among our best citizens many avoid jury duty; yet, notwithstanding that, 1 can say that the average of our juries is fully up to what you would find in the Middle States. I am not familiar with juries in the far East, Imt in Ohio and Indiana, and in that section, but so far as intelligence is concerned, and the disposition to do what is right. THE LIQUOR BUSINESS AND CRIME. Q. The committee observed the nature of the anuisements on the streets here. Do anv crimes come before your courts that grow out of this state of affairs? -A. Well, of course, we do have a good deal of crime that grows, necessarily, out of what is ordinarily termed the liquor business, the liquor traffic; as you will find it in the States, and wherever there is free access to whisky; but there is comparatively 128 NEW STATEHOOD BILL.' little crime in the town — this place and Jerome, for instance, the larger towns. It is astonishing- how little there is in the way of crime of a serious nature. Drunl\enness is not as frequent as you would expect. Nearly every man drinlvs, but it is not, as a rule, drinking that you would tind in many s(>ctions of the country where you have habitual drunkenness. Men seem to be capable of drinking more here, and liolding their own; while there is some crime that is con- nected with drinking and drinking results, assaults and crimes of that nature. There are no crimes against property, but crimes against the person. I can sa}^ however, that in this district at this time there are no pending cases of murder, which is unusual, to be sure, but it hap- pens to be the case. There are a good many cases which have been tried during the last two or three months of assault with intent to commit mui'der, assault with deadly weapon, and aggravated assault, but no murders. And further the witness saith not. F. A. Tritle, called as a witness by the committee, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: B}^ the Chairman: Q. Please state your name and age to the committee. — A. F. A. Tritle; I will be TO in next August. Q. How long have you lived in the Territor}^? — A. i came down here in ISSO. Q. You were supervisor of the census for the Territory? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you remember about how many enumerators vou had under you?— A. Well, about KM). . Q. You appointed those enumerators, did you not^ — A. Yes, sir; except those that were connected with the Indian Department; they were suggested by the Commission. Q. You had a prettv thorough knowledge of the Territory'? — A. Yes, sir; I w^as governor here prior to that time, and knew more about it in that w^ay than I did in connection with the census. I did not go about the Territory any, as far as the census was concerned. Q. You did not need to; you knew it? — A. Well, the people that were appointed did that. Q. So that you were peculiarly qualified by I'eason of your acquaint- ance with the Territory to select the enumerators? — A. Yes, sir. Q. You, in common with all of the enumerators, took the oath — the customary oath to take the census accurately ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. That was done, was it? — A. Yes, sir; that is to the extent pos- sible. You know, as a matter of course, tliat Arizona covers a great deal of ground, and the area is great, and necessarily some v\ ere missed that we would not come in contact with; but they were supposed to take them all. and the presumption is that they did it as successfullv as it could be done in a country like this. THE CENSUS SUBSTANTIALLY CORRECT. By Senator Dillingham: Q. I understand you to say that the result of the census was sub- stautiallv correct? — A. Yes, sir. NEW STATEHe extremely warm. Q. That would be people of permanent homes, and sufficient means to go outside of the Territoiy? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And your enumerators had the data to take those? — A. No, sir; they would not be taken. Q. If a man was absent and had sufficient means and substance to go away from his home in the heated term, and had his home, or ranch, wouldn't there 1)e anybody there? — A. He would have to answer for himself; and if he was outside of the Territory at the time the enu- merator went to his place, he would not be on the roll. Q. How many would you say there were of them? — A. I would not have an}' idea of that. Q. It would be limited, would it? — A. Yes, sir; although some of the sections claim there was a good man}^ people absent. You will come in contact with them when 3^ou get to Phoenix, and those places that were hot, and they claim the}^ had a good many more people than were returned. And further the witness saith not. Julius N. Rodenberg, called as a witness b}^ the committee and first having been dul}' sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. Julius N. Rodenberg. Q. And your age? — A. I was born in 1849 — that makes 53. Q. How long have you lived in the Territory? — A. Since 1870. Q. You were a census enumerator? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Where was your district located? — A. From Prospect down to the line of the county. H s B 9 ISO NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. You took an oath, did you not, to take your enumeration and to take it accuratelv and faithfull}' 'i — A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you do so? — A. I tried to do so, as near as I could, but it was such a large district and mixed population. POPULATION SO PER CENT WHITE. Q. What was the nature of the population? — A. Eig-hty per cent white, and the others natives and Indians. Q. The natives came under you? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you use an interpreter in taking their enumeration ? — A. No, sir; I did not need it. I talk four or five different languages, and among them Spanish. Q. In taking the census of the natives you used the Spanish lan- guage? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What was the nature of the occupations of the people in your district, 3"our census district? — A. In the valleys all farming and stock raising, and in the mines, such as Octave and Congress, principally mining. And further the witness saith not. William S. Marts, called as a witness and first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator Dillingham: Q. You mav state vour name to the committee. — A, William S. Marts. Q. You reside here? — A. Yes, sir. Q. You were a census enumerator? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What territory did your district cover? — A. I took everything south of this street. Q. In this city? — A. Yes, sir. Q, Do you remember about the number of people in your district? — A. Well, about, I think — I think something like two thousand or more; I remember my pay check was sixt3^-two or sixty-three dollars, at 3 cents a head. Q. Did 3'ou make an accurate report and a thorough enumeration? — A. Yes, sir; I never skipped a man, woman, or child that I could find. Q. This was a city population? — A. Yes, sir. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. What was the nature of the population, American or Mexican? — A. Well, I ran up against white people, Mexicans, and Chinamen, and I should judge that — well, about four-fifths of them were white and the balance about equalh" divided between Mexicans and Chinese. And further the witness saith not. E. B. MoDEN, called as a witness and first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: B}^ the Chairman: Q. You may state j^our name to the committee. — A. E. B. Moden. Q. You are the city clerk here? — A. Yes, sir. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 131 LICENSE SYSTEM FOR DRINKING HOUSES, DANCE HALLS, AND RESORTS. Q. The committee wants to iiKiuire of you as to the license system with respect to the drinking houses and dance halls and other resorts here, as to the character of it and how much it is per months — A. Do yon want it separate 'i Q. Yes, sir; just state it in the briefest possible form, separately. — A. Well, we have other licenses besides dance halls and saloons. Q, Well, g-o ahead and give the whole thing. — A. It is about $6,000 a quarter. Q. You mean for the whole thing. For each place, say, how is it? — A. For a saloon it is $20 a quarter, three months. The total license collected in the city for one quarter — the licenses are collected quar- terly^, and that is about the amount, $6,000. Q. Now, go ahead and analyze it as to what they were for. — A. Well, saloons, |20 a quarter: games of chance, $15; general merchants, stores, their license is according to their gross receipts; some pa}" $20 a quarter, some pay $12, some $6; $6 is the lowest. The dance halls are $10 a night. Kestaurants are $6 a night; hotels and restaurants, $10. Q. What do you mean by hotels and restaurants ( — A. That is where the hotel has a restaurant with the hotel. Refreshment business, such as soda water fountains and ice cream parlors, are $6 a quarter. Q, Are there any other licenses with the liquor business? — A. Count}^ licenses. Q. 1 am not speaking of that, but the occupations, the business. — A. No, sir. Q. What do dance halls include!' — A. Just the dancing in the hall. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. I was told last evening that the games paid a dollar a day for each game. — A. They pay a dollar and a half; they pay a dollar to the county and 50 cents to the city. NO SUNDAY CLOSING. By the Chairman; Q. l^esterday being Sunday, and it being right here on the open street, the committee could not help but observe that the saloons, games of chance, and dance halls were running. Your law permits that on Sunday as well as any other day ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Is there any other form of license? Is nothing else licensed? — A. Well, in fact, all businesses are licensed, Q. What is the fact as to the ordinance here concerning any other form of w^hat is known as vice outside of drinking ;' — A. In regard to the women particularly, there is none that I know of. There is a regulation requiring an examination by phj^sicians. They are exam- ined twice a week by the city physician — the city health officer, rather. Q. And in case of failure to observe that regulation they are fined, are they? — A. Y^es, sir; there is a fine attached to it. Q. The city derives its revenue from that business in that way, does it? — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. And here, at the hour of 11 o'clock a. m., the committee arose to proceed to Phoenix to hear further testimony at that city. 132 . new statehood bill. Adams Hotel, Phoenix, Ariz., Tuesday, Noveinher 18, 1902—2 j^. iii. Benjamin A. Fowler, selected as one of the persons to make a statement to the committee on behalf of the admission of Arizona Ter- ritory as a State, appeared before the committee and first having been duly sworn made the following- statement: By the Chairman: Q. Please state your name to the committee. — A. My name is Ben- jamin A. Fowler. The Chairman. The committee will be glad to hear you with refer- ence to this Territory, its resources, people, etc., with respect to this question of statehood. Mr. Fowler. At a very late hour last night I was requested to ■appear before the committee to represent the people here in a general way. It is a pleasure as well as an honor. In thinking the matter 'Over I have thought that you were loaded down with statistics of all kinds. You have the reports of the governors of the Territory, the present governor, and his predecessor. You have had other printed matter, and you have heard Hon. Mark Smith dilate upon Arizona and its greatness and resources, and I have thought that it was not as much statistics as other things that you want to hear from me. I am not an old resident here. Judge Kibbey has been here fifteen years. He has been on the United States bench and practicing law here for that length of time. Now, my residence here has covered a period of four years. I came, originaUy, from New England, not far from our friend Senator Burnham and our friend Senator Dillingham, but perhaps 1 would look at the question here a little different from one who is native ])orn. I have thought, for instance, that you would not care to have us go into the area of the Territory very much, although it is an intercj ting point to keep in mind in that connection that we could put some twelve New Hampshires in area, or Vermonts, or one hundred Rhode Islands and have room left. area not a basis for statehood. It is not the area that should ))e the basis of statehood. I might tell you that we have the largest pine forests in the United States, as was remarked to the chairman this morning. We have thought and we think that we have the finest granite in the United States. By the Chairman: Q. Where does that forest track lie ? — A. Over to the northwest. Q. What railroad does it touch? — A. Neither one. Q. Where is it? — A. It is between the Santa Fe on the north and the Southern Pacilic on the south. There is a little branch at Williams that runs down into it. Q. How far is it from the railroad?— A. The railroad on the north is very near the edge of it. The railroad on the south I should say is within 50 miles or 100 miles — 50 miles certainly. The statistics I ■did not think worth while to bring with me, but there are a few others that I think it would ))e well to bring out. For instance, the fact of the development of this Territory. Now, that is very great. The development of this Territory strikes the Eastern man as simply wonderful. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. lo3 CAPITAL AND IMMIGRATION COMING. It does not impress a strang-er so much as it does after he has lived here a while. The amount of capital that is coming- in here, the rail- roads being- built, the development of the mining- country is the greatest tlmt has ever been in this district. And the immigration in this Territory is steady. It is an immigration of a better class of people than originally came from year to 3'ear. Perhaps that is because the people in the East are getting- better and better, and these people that are coming down here are making- a class of citizens that are of a very high tj^pe. Now, in that connection, I maj^ speak of another thing that is inter- esting-, and that is as 370U have seen here, and to a stranger from the East I have heard it repeated over and over again — the fact of having such modern conveniences, electric railroads and street cars, the safety of life and property here. It is beyond the ordinary understanding- of an Easterner. I think I remarked about a retired manufacturer from the East who came here to see his daughter, and I think his wife made him promise not to go out of the hotel after night and not to leave the important streets in the daytime. He says, ""'I have been here two months, and I go out at all times, dtiy and night, and I have not seen a single brawl, and as for drunkenness, it is very rare, of course.'' And the fact is that this city has but two night policemen, at a time when it would seem that they needed more, in view of the fact that the saloons are open all the time. As a fact, I feel that I am safer in the suDur))s of this cit}^ than I would be in the suburbs of New York or Boston, and I lived there most of my life. People have lived here for years and never locked their houses. Now, in that connec- tion, I might speak of the number of churches that there are in the Territory. That is an index to the character of the people and the number of church memljers. CHURCH MEMBERSHIP. Now, about one-half of the entire population of the Territory are church members. By the Chairman: Q. Can you give the denominations roughly? — A. Yes, sir. There are about 70,000 altogether, church members, and about -10,000 of these are Catholics, and about 7,000 are Mormons, and the rest divided among the other denominations. Then there is another point that interests the Easterner, and that is the interest of the citizens here in education. Now, you have had an opportunity to-day to see, for instance, our school buildings here in Phoenix. I have been a mem- ber of school boards in the East, and a teacher for ([uite a number of years in my younger years, and 1 think I can testify honestly as to the character of the schools here. The buildings are very convenient; our people have no desire to save in expense whatever in the construction of buildings and in the purchase of any apparatus needed in the school work. ILLITERACY. In that respect and along that line I may speak of the percentage of illiteracy here as agreeably low. I do not know that there are any reliable statistics, but the best statistics that I can o-et an idea at was 134 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. b}' reliiible authorities as low as 2 per cent and as high as 8 per cent, and I think 4 per cent would be a fair per cent of illiterac}' in Ari- zona. That is accoiuited for by several thing-s. One is that the for- eign element in Arizona is small. Another is that the influx of people from the East are, in nearly all cases that have come down under my notice, there is not an exception but that the}' are educated people of more than average education. You would be surprised to g*o out in the country here and into the mining- districts and see the number of college men and university men; the people scattered over here. 1 remember particularly I was out to a mining' property and I saw a young man reclining under the shade near the windlass. He was working the windlass and while they were tilling the bucket at the Ijottom of the shaft he was reading, and 1 said: ''Young man, what have you there?" and he held up a book in the original Greek. I think I have said enough on that subject. I might give you iUustration and illustration on that line. Our teachers are nearly all Easterners. The principal of our schools, the superintend- ent of our schools are men of mental life from the East. CHARACTER AND INTELLIGENCE OF PEOPLE. Then there is another reason for the high grade of character and intelligence of our people here, and that is the climate. It brings to our country a great many people who have either come out here for their health or have come here for the winter and enjoyed the climate and they located here. We have a great many citizens who came out here as invalids and have recovei'ed their health and appear among the most active and influential of our business men. That accounts in a large degree for the high grade of intelligence and the low grade of illiteracy. Now, as to the population, we have a very small negro population. We have a very small Mexican population. In this countv there are 25,000, and I think the Mexican popidation is about 1,000." By the Chairman: Q. In what portion of the State is the Mexican population? — A. It would he in the southern — the nearer you get to Mexico the more Mexicans. Q. T^he committee thought the}^ saw a large number of Mexicans at the Congress Mines yesterda3\ — A. Yes, sir. Now I come to the question of population. The census, as you know, gives us about 122,000, and we feel that the census worked against us in two differ- ent ways, and I think the grounds that are taken by the people are very just. I stand as one who wants to give this committee absolutely exact facts. I think if Arizona is not worthy of statehood she ought not to have it, and if she has not the men and women here she is not worth}' of statehood. It is not green grass and fat cattle that make a State. They are elements, but what makes a State are men of intelligence and ability and men of character. That is what made New England; that is what made the United States, and what is going to make it here in Arizona. •'the new ENGLAND TYPE." I used to talk in addresses of what we called the New England t3'pe and that it went out into the Middle West. And it is here. You NEW STATEHOOD BILL, 135 have seen it here this inorniiig- in the school children. You saw a few negro children and a few Mexicans, but the great bulk of them were of American parentage. I was ver}^ glad indeed to have the com- mittee arrange the ride in such a way that you could see them, and 1 stated to the chairman in my judgment 90 per cent of those children were from parents who came from east of Kansas City, and in talking to a business man at noon he said, "'"You might have gone further and said that 90 per cent of the parents came from east of the JNlissis- sippi River," and it is that current of New England blood that came down into the Territory and made it what it is. You know that the governor in his report claims that the population is over 140,000, I have stated in Washington that it was over 150,000, It has been said in Washington that it was over 175,000. POPULATION 150,000. My idea is that the population to-day is very close to 150,000, Y"ou may ask. Why did the census give us only 122,000? and I may say, Wh}' did Phoenix only show 5,500? You have only to know of the 2,200 school children and the voting population of over 2,000 to find out for yourselves whether there is a question of the population of 5,500, The hot season began here in May and the people began to migrate to their summer homes in the moimtains, at the seashore in the East, and the census being begun in June, many of our families were gone. I was never taken. One of the cashiers of the banks was not enumerated. We were both here, and 1 do not know why we were missed. By the Chairman: Q, What do you think the population is here? — A, Ten thousand, Q. Do you think there were 5,000 people away from home that summer? — A. No, sir, I brought the matter up in the board of trade, of which I was a director, and am now, and we took the matter up and wrote to the Director of the Census and he wrote that it was too late for him to do anything, but that we could take the census for our- selves if we wanted to and compare it with theirs. That was in July or August and it would be too late to make any census that would be a good and fair l)asis for a comparison, and so we gave it up. We all knew that the statement of the Census Bureau would go out to the public and Phoenix would get her 5,500 and that we could not follow that statement all over the world, and so we let it go. There is another explanation of the small population of Arizona, and that is the enumeration was at so much per head. POPULATION IS SCATTERED. In this country the population is scattered, and you get out into the mountains and while there is a large population as a whole, they are far apart and many a time it would cost an enumerator 75 cents or $1 to earn 4 or 5 cents, and it stands to reason, and we think it is very reasona])le, that the enumeration of that rural population was fixed up by the enumerators. Q. Would it not be natural, Mr, Fowler, for a census enumerator to get the names of eveiybody he possibly could, whether from them or somebody that knew about them, and return them, thus not onh" swelling his compensation, but giving the better account of his Terri- tory than the reverse? Is it not the usual and almost universal tend- 136 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. encv to swell the returns rather than to diminish them? — A. I should think it would be, naturally, yes, sir; but our conditions are such that when you get out into the mountains, the cattle regions, it is difficult and expensive to get out into the different sections and report them. There are other reasons, perhaps, but that is enough, in our judgment, to make up for quite a little difference. In the meantime the Terri- tory has been growing steadily. Take Phoenix, even in the drought which we have had in the last two years, and you gentlemen have seen what that has been. GROWTH IN SPITE OF WAXT OF WATER, If we could have gone over there with you this morning we could have shown you orchard after orchard and ranch after ranch that is dying for want of water. In spite of that our country around here has been growing in population. And the territory to the east of us,^ and the territory to the west of us, and the territory to the north of us has been steadil}^ growing also, which would make up for the other 25,000, which, in iny judgment, should be added to the population of the Territoiy. Xow, there are one or two other items that I had in mind. These are rather desultory remarks I am making to you to-day. In speaking of the American and foreign-))orn population. I was rather proud of what you saw in the court room, because that was the regular inspection that we have there. Now, the interpreters salary in that court is less than $100 a year, and there is not one case in ten in civil cases where witnesses are Mexican — there is not one case in ten where the interpreter is called in. It is upon such statements as this quality of manhood and womanhood of this Territory that I should base all the hopes that I might have of you granting Statehood to our people. I think that the strongest basis— the strongest thing that I can bring- forward for your consideration. I might go into the material wealth, but you know that the material assessed value of the Territory is $39,000,000 or $40,000,000. Little facts like one given to me by a railroad man a little while ago concerning the freight, the freight and passenger receipts at the little town of Benson have been as high as $160,000 a month. Take it in Bowie, the freight and passenger receipts have been as high as SIO.OOO a month. Take it at Lordsburgv they have usually 200 or 300 cars there. By Senator Dillingham: Q. What is the traffic that yields such results as that?— A. The min- ing interests have been developed south of Benson. We have a large district of mining interests from Bisbee, being the center, and you have Tombstone. HISTORY OF TOMBSTONE. Tombstone, a while ago, was down to a half a hundred people, and beyond Tombstone to-day they are laying the rails and ]Mr. Gage and Mr. Frank Murphy are rehabilitating Tombstone. It had one great fall, but it was practically abandoned for fifteen or sixteen years, and now it is a long stoly of how Mr. Gage found they were pumping all the water from the mines, and he tried to make an arrangement with all the other miners to go in with him and pump the water out, but they would not do it. and then came a great fire and burned his out and"^ then the water flooded the other mines, and now this company has NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 137 bought all of them in and they are to be worked in one interest. I should make some reference as to the business at the other points, althoug"h at Bowie you approach the Gila River country, which is one of the finest in the country. Over at Yuma they have another system of irrigation. Some of the linest land in all of the United States is in Yuma and the water is being- taken from the Colorado River. Per- haps you are acquainted with the report of Mr. Davis, the engineer of the geolog-ical survey, which has opened up a view for that country that sounds like an Arabian Nights' tale. By the Chairman: Q. What is the present actual development there in irrigation ^ — A. Very little from the Needles down ahuost to Y'uma, and the fact is it would take a very large amount of money to make that developiuent to divert that water. Mr. Davis told me that something like a million acres of land could be irrigated over in that section and would be as soon as the works were put in. Now, in connection with irrigation, 1 want to say just a word with reference to the irrigation in this valley. This, as you know, was supposed to be occupied by a prehistoric race. A PREHISTORIC RACE. It was supposed that long ago there was 300,000 or 400,000 people in this valley, but that prehistoric canals were laid on engineering- lines is a fact, and some of the canals to day lie along the h'nes of those old prehistoric canals. We have in this valley one of the lai'gest irriga- tion systems in the United States. AVe have here over i^()() uiiles of canals. One of the canals that we did not drive up to is 50 miles long. We have over 900 miles of laterals here and thousands of miles of ditches. The water is taken from the head of the Arizona Canal and then runs across on the other side on Dr. Chendes Canal, on the other side of the river, and the balance comes down into the Maricopa Land Grant River Canal. Q. Below the dam the river is now dry, is it not? — A. No, sir; not below the dam. There is usually a stream trickling down and then it disappears altogether. Q. So that a mile below it becomes dry ? — A. Y^es, sir. You g'o out here and follow this avenue south to the river and you come to a dry bed, and in the great flood of 1891 the water came up to the hotel and was several miles wide. PLAN FOR BUILDING A RESERVOIR, Now, it is our hope and plan to interest the United States to the extent of constructing- for us a reservoir about HO miles north of east of here, a reservoir that will impound six times as much water as any other irrigation dam in existence. That is not the bill which a comuiittee of Congress has reported favorably, but it is the enabling- act authorizing- this county to issue two and a quarter million bonds. This daiu is only 200 feet acres bottom and 700 feet long, ])ut it gives us a reservoir pretty near 25 miles long. The great Wachuset dam only holds 200,000 acre-feet of water. The Croton system has cost six millions and is not completed and it impounds only 800,000 acre- feet. For not exceeding three millions there can be built up here a reservoir that will impound eight times as much. These, engineers tell me, can be put into foundation walls in the mountains and it is only 65 138 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. feet to the bed rock, but I did not intend to go into that. I was drawn into that incidentally, havino- given a gi'eat deal of m}^ time to that in the last few years and to bringing to us what seems near at hand. The success of this valley depends absolutely upon irrigation with the water that conies from the mountains. If we have an insufficiency of rainfall or snowfall in the mountains, we have an insufficiency of water down here. We have sunshiny days like this, as the boys say, three hundred and eighty-tive days in the year, but it is surprising the number of beautiful days, like this, we have. There is no other section that I have ever been w^here we have as many beautiful days as we have here. We have over three hundred days in the year when the sun shines like it does to-day. RAINFALL. Down here everybodv is happy when they see the clouds coming and the rain comes, because we go along here for months and not a drop of rain falls. The volume of water, of course, depends on the snow- fall. The Salt River has about 6,500 of miles of watershed and the Verde, which is the principal tributary of the Salt River, has about 6,000 square miles of rainfall. By Senator Dillingham: Q. Have you any means of knowledge about the annual influx of people into the Territory? — A. I do not know of any statistics that I could refer to. My judgment has been made up from observation and from correspondence, and in coming in contact as I have in a bus- iness way and a political way — well, I have not gone into politics here at all aside from the fact that I was in the legislature two years ago and had a somewhat extended acquaintance throughout the Territory, and I made it a special point to inquire about the increase of popula- tion in the difi'erent sections of the Territory, and have done so by correspondence since, and 1 base my judgment upon that data. That would not be what you would call strictly mathematical and reliable data like the census. By the Chairman: Q. The number of acres actually under irrigation is what? — A. I want lirst to emphasize to the committee the fact that w^hen 3'ou talk about 275,000 acres of land on the canals, that all of that land prac- tically, there may be a little— there may be 250.000 acres— that takes out s^ome blocks that have been abandoned, but all of that 250,000 acres has been operated. The water has been over it. This last year we did not irrigate in this valle.y exceeding 90,000 acres. Over 90,000, I told you, to 100,000 acre's. In fact, Mr. Heard thinks it was even less than that on account of the drought. I have 280 acres of land 1 did not put anv water at all on, because I did not have it. I have avoided, gentlemen, a number of things that I would have said to you individually, because they were personal references. I feel delicate about going into the matter of making personal references. PROPORTION OF RANCH ACTUALLY IRRIGATED. In the case in which I was talking to the chairman about my ranch of 310 acres, there are 280 acres that I have not put any water on for NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 139 three years, and 140 acres, about that, out of which 1 have had water enougli to cultivate about 10 acres, although 1 have spread out over more territory than that. I had quite a considerable acreage of oranges and grai)es, ])ut I wanted to save them, but I lost them in spite of everything 1 could do. Q. 1 understand that the reason you did not put more than this 40 acres under water was because of lack of waters — A. Yes, sir; I did not put more than 40 acres under water because 1 lacked the water, but 1 was paying for 100 acres of water. The contracts are worded that the waters are to be furnished provided it is in the river. 1 have covered the ground that it seems to me wise for me to develop, leav- ing a number of other sul)jects for Judge Kibbey. As 1 say, I have been here for four years, nearly, not quite. I came in contact in a somewhat extended way with the citizenship of this Territory and it is a great pleasure to me to testify before this committee to the high order of intelligence, character, and ability that we have in this Ter- ritory, and I keep emphasizing that point, because as I have said to my associates in this comnumity, that if we do not have a true basis for statehood we do not deserve statehood. There is flowing through the veins of the people here the same blood that Hows through the veins of the people of the East. There is the same patriotic impulses here that j^ou find in the East. 1 believe that the first blood shed in Cuba in the Spanish war was that of an Arizona boy, and Arizona, if I remember riglit. had a larger per capita repre- sentation in the Army during the war with Spain than ariy State in the Union. You will never call on Arizona that the call will not be met with a response that will carry pride to the heart of all our people all over the country. PEOPLE FROM EVERY STATE IN ARIZONA. We have people here from every State in the Union. The presi- dent of the New York society told me this noon they had 100 members in their society here, and the societies of other States have more than that, some of them. We feel that we have been in a degree disfran- chised. We are pretty near the United States. We had the right of franchise in the East." We were born, some of us, in the shadow of Bunker Hill, (^ur ancestors fought there for their rights, for the right of no taxation without representation. It is in the hands of this conmiittee to say whether we are qualified to have that right or not. For one, I am content to leave it in your hands, having made a personal examination and investigation of the subject down here, which 1 think was as wise a move as this conunittee could have decided upon. I am sorry that I did not have a little more notice of this in order that I might have made a little preparation. CHARACTER OF JUDICIARY. By the Chairman: Q. The committee would like to know your opinion of the judiciaiy of the Territory, as to their capacity and purity. — A. The judiciary of this Territory stands high, gentlemen. President Roosevelt said to me, there is one thing we are very sure of. , Judge Kent, as you all know, was a Harvard man and a friend of the President, and Mr. 140 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Lodo-e and Mr. Roosevelt said to me, there is one thing that we are very sure of and that is that Mr. Kent will make an absokitel^y honest judge. There is no judge that has ever come into this Territory that has created a better impression and gained the absokite confidence of the people than Judge Kent has. He first came in when there was irrigation litigation of a complicated nature, and I said to Mr. Roose- velt, "I am afraid Mr. Judge Kent will tackle this irrigation question before he has been there very long, and I am afraid that he can not decide them rightly. He has got to be there a long time liefore he can take them in and absorli them," and so far in all his rulings and decisions, he has in a remarkal)le manner enjoyed the confidence of the litigants and the people who have had no confidence in the judges for the Territory for the last twenty vears. 1 am very glad to testify to that. Q. Is that generally true of the present judiciary? — A. Yes, sir; I think so. I have onl}^ met Judge Kent casually. I had reason to send in my letters of introduction to him from Senator Lodge, who is a friend of mine and gave me letters to him. Judge Sloan is another man who stands well in this community and is a very upright gentleman. THE BENCH ABOVE SUSPICION. I do not believe there is a member of the liench to-day in Arizona of whom anyone would breathe a word of suspicion. That is my judg- ment as a common citizen, and they are regarded as excellent lawyers; but there are difierent grades. The}' ai'e not all of the same grade. 1 want to say just this one word more regarding what we saw this morn- ing. That, so far as I can observe, you saw the every-day routine of the cour troom there. I have been in a number of times simply to judge for myself as to the way Judge Kent presided and the way court mat- ters were handled, and I have been very much impressed with the dig- nity of the court, with the fairness of the decisions of the court, and the mastery of the situation by the court. Judge Kent is not a man who will permit himself to ))e trifled with in any way. 1 may say the same of the other judge of whom you speak. It is ni}^ aim and desire to help this committee in every way that I can. and I think it is the desire of the best element of citizens here in the Territory to simply present the facts to j^ou as near as we can do so. And further the witness saith not. Joseph H. Kibbey, first having been sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman : Q. State 3'our name, age, and how long you have lived here in the Territory.— A. M} name is Joseph H. Kil)bev; 1 am a lawyer, and I have lived here since Mav, 1888. In this valley since 1803. In Pinal County from 1888 to 1893. Q. You may make your statements as you desire. — A. I am toler- ably well acquainted with the conditions in nearly everj^ county, having visited them on many occasions. During my earlier period in the Territory I was on the bench, holding court in nearlv all the counties of the Territorv and have attended court in nearl}^ all the counties since that time. I came from Indiana. I came here as the NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 141 attorney for the promoter of the canal enterprise. I became tolerably well .satisfied with the conditions here and have remained here ever since, and I am here for good I suppose. I am, of course, anxious for statehood for a o-reat many reasons. Too many reasons to state here. We think W(^ are entitled to it because we thiidv ourselves to be citizens of the United States, and although we can not say what State — and there is a sentiment connected with it that makes it desirable, not only a sentiment, but there is a sentiment that very materially affects our material prog-ress. There seems to be a prevalent opinion among the people in the East that the very name of Territory is associated with the idea of crudity of all sorts. The courts, the schools, and the people themselves, individually and collectively, think it is unsafe both to persons and property; that it is not a good place to invest, or to rear or take children, and I know of no way of eradicating that idea unless we can bring people here and see it. Unless we can say we are not a Territory ])ut a State, and the notion of our Territorial conditions goes when we become a State. The people of the East have a prett}'' correct notion, in a gen- eral way, of a new country. THE PEOPLE COSMOPOLITAN. The people here are C(»smopolitan. They come from the States. Nearly all of the varied interests are represented. It may be said, I think, generally, that the energetic people come West. I will not say that they are the best, but they are energetic at any rate. They bring with them the habits and notions and prejudices i'rom their old homes and apply them with their conditions in their new homes. It is not necessary for me to refer to the theory of the government of Territories under our organic act. It is practically the same in all of the Territories and has been practicallj^ the same for over a hundred years. THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM. We do not like our judicial system. When it comes to that, we like to avoid it if we can. We have no particular objection to the person- nel of the courts as they are established. The judges are appointed by the President of the United States, b}- and with the advice and consent of the Senate, but the complaint does not arise from that. They are from those appointed locally or those sent in from the outside. But the appellate jurisdiction is vested in the supreme court, which is composed of all the judges, who are also the trial judges. A case is tried in the lower courts, and when it is appealed it comes for con- sideration to a court composed of judges who sit in the trial courts. Of course, not the same judge who sits in the trial of the case origi- nally sits in the hearing on appeal. In a court as small as ours, com- posed of so few judges, we find it unsatisfactory. There has been a com- plaint made by most of the members of the bar and most of the judges themselves. Of course, it can be said that a man ought to be large enough or big enough to go on the bench and review a case that he had tried and do it honestly. Q. 1 understood you to sa}' that the particular judge who tried the 142 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. ca.se in the court below did not take part in the case on appeal? — A. No. sir; he does not. Up to ten years ago we had only three judges in the Territory, and the judge sat who tried the case, and they all sat; but the provision of the law now is tiiat the judge who tried the case below is disqualified from sitting on the court on appeal when he tried the case below. That was our complaint of the system until it was modified. Q. You are not complainitig of the system after it has been modi- fied? — A. No, sir. I do not think it' has been greatly improved, although that particular feature of it has been removed. COURT PROCEEDINGS UP TO THE STANDARD, Now, the court proceedings are up to the standard. 1 have had con- siderable experience in communities of this size in Indiana up to 1888. I knew the judges. 1 knew some of the judges of the supreme court. The law has not come to that state of certainty here that it has back there. AVe are not governed by precedents in our own Territory as the States are in the older States. Court changes with each change of Administration, and our judges come from different places and come from these different States with different ideas. Q. Is it not the case that the judges usually change with each elec- tion in most of the States:!— A. No, sir; the practice has been to change. Now. of course, there has been a constant change here. Q. You talk about the changes here being with the changes of Administration. Is not that true of the States of the central West? — A. No, sir; if a party succeeds at one election, then it is one judge go in and the other judge go out, and he is taken from your State and is familiar with the laws of your own State. Our judges have until very recently been sent in from the outside. They would come in from California, or Texas, or Ohio, and they come with their ideas of their laws from those States. Q. Judge Sloan has been here as long as you have, has he not? — A. Yes, sir. Q. The universal tendency now is to appoint judges locally? — A. Yes, sir; there is an exception in the case of Judge Kent. Q. What have you to say about the tendency of the court that we visited this morning? — A. I have been very well pleased with Judge Kent, ))ut that ol)jection applies to Judge Kent. Judge Kent was from Maine, originally, and practiced law in New York and came to Colorado, and that would not be bad at all if there was any perma- nence about it. NO DISPOSITION TO FOLLOW PRECEDENTS. It seems to have lieen the result, whatever the reason for it, there is greater uncertainty and no disposition to establish and follow prece- dents. It is very unusual to cite an Arizona decision. SVe would cite a Massachuse^tts decision with as much certainty and a New York decision with more certainty than we would cite an Arizona decision. Some of our judges came from Massachusetts and other States that have laws radicallv different from those of Ohio and Indiana. The Aveight of this is that because of the unfamiliarity of the judges with the statutes of the Territorv, that he would decids a case where the NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 143 statutes of the Territory were involved without a sufBoient knowledcre of them. I would not ([uite mean that. Q. What would you mean^ — A. I would mean that wherever a per- son receives his education in a certain system, that he w^ould follow that system. Q. What would you say was the system in any State? Do you think there is any such great dissimilarity^ — A. Yes, sir. For instance, we take our code from the code of Texas. It was a peculiar code, one of the briefest that any State has had. The Texas code w as supplemented by a long- statement of rules, but in our codification of 1887 we adopted that code, which was incomplete in itself, l)ut we did not adopt the rules, and we w^ere left unsettled as to what we should do. At that time our judges and a great many of the bar came from California, and they came with Californian notions of practice. California, it is true, is supposed to be modeled after New York, bat there is a very decided difference there. VAST EXTENT OF PUBLIC DOMAIN. We have irrigation laws and mining laws and, probably, land laws, and we have a vast extent of public domain that is subject, or the use of it is subject, to appropriation for a varietv of purposes, and all of them are giving rise to disputes and conflicts and questions as to origin of rights and questions of right that do not arise in the eastern States. Q. Is it not true that the decisions of Judge Kent have given extraor- dinary satisfaction on those very questions? — A. He has not passed . on them very much yet. I have talked with Judge Kent about these things myself. He has pending before him now a very considerable litigation about our water rights and he told me he was bothered about these new conditions because of his lack of familiarity with these laws. We have no doubt that he will learn them and decide them right. If the National Administration should succeed itself and he succeeds him- self, he will probably be satisfactory. Now, the proceedings in court have been carried on with as much decorum as in the cities of the same size in the middle West. The juries are made up of an Arizona popu- lation and that is characteristic of a new countr}'. They average as to integrity, frank, and outspoken. They have pretty just ideas of what is justice. There is as little corruption among our juries and our judges as there is among the communities of the older States. Now, it has been seldom that Congress has legislated with our local affairs, although it has a right to do so. I can only recollect a few^ instances. One with reference to some lionds. One set issued l)y Yavapai Courit}' and one set by Pima County. There was. some dissatisfaction about that, but it was probably an unjust criticism. It is as a matter of sentiment that we could have attended to this matter as well locally as it could have been attended to by a body who did not have any knowledge of them whatever. Q. What w^as that? — A. Involving the legality of some bonds. Q. That was involving an issue of bonds above the statutory limit, was it not? — A. No, sir; it was in the matter of some railroad bonds, l^avapai County and Pima County issued some bonds in aid of the construction of the railroad from Phoenix to Prescott. The road in Yavapai County was constructed, but the road in Pima County was 14-1 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. never canstructed, except ten miles of it. A train never ran over the track at all, except for construction purposes, about ten miles of it being- ])uilt. Those bonds had been issued. PIMA COUNTY BONDS. It is said in Pima County — the bonds there were issued, and it was claimed that the,y had not been properly issued, and that Yavapai County bonds had been issued properly because they had got value received. These })onds were issued before or about the time by reason of the fact that there was a refunding act passed b\^ the Territorial legislature. It was afterwards reviewed and adopted by Congress with slight amend- ment. It was held under this act that we could have these bonds refunded under the provisions of the refunding act, and it was objected to by both of the counties. In the meantime the courts of this Ter- ritory had passed upon the question of the right of a county to issue bonds in aid of a railroad, and the Territorial supreme court held that they had been given the right to do it under the provisions of the organic act. That case w^ent to the Supreme Court of the United States and was affirmed. In the meantime, after that a suit was lirought on these bonds, and complete the land connnission and refund them, and in that case it was claimec that these bonds had been held invalid by the supreme court of the Territory, and they went there again, and they were again held invalid, and that case went to the Supreme Court of the United States, and while the case was pending there Congress passed a law holding the bonds valid. Q. Was that an act asked for l)v the Delegate of the Territory ? — A. Yes, sir. But we claimed in this Territor}^ that the consideration had failed, and that the bonds were illegally issued. The funding act was passed in the Territory in 1889 and revised bv Congress, I think, in the same year. Q. The act of Congress sustaining that refunding act was asked for by the Delegate in Congress, was it ( — A. Y"es, sir. Now these are some of the things that we are complaining of. They are largely matters of sentiment, it is true, but we think these things could have been managed as well locally as by Congress. Q. Well, Congress only did what your legislature did and what your representative asked. — A. Yes, sir; but we don't think Congress should have had any part in the matter at all. CONSIDERABLE PROPORTION OF CRIMINALS ARE MEXICANS. I attended courts in the various counties and we have had before us a variety of criminals. The proportion I have seen are above the average for intelligence. There is a considerable proportion of these taken up for crimes who are Mexicans, and their ofl'enses are gener- ally of a minor character — some of them cutting scrapes, assaults of various kinds, and some of them cattle stealing. There are a great many homicides. They are not confined to the Mexicans. Possibly there are more of them among the mining camps among the whites than there are among the Mexicans. The administration of justice and the enforcement of law have been, I feel, very fairly administered. Now, as to our population, of course the statistics show what the NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 145 census made it. This county is practically an agricultural county, depending on agriculture for "its development. Our markets for it are chietiv local. We will probably raise some products that will be the subject of export. Surrounding us are mining- counties. They are developing and will constantly develop. They are not oidy increasing the product, but the products of the Territory. Pinal County is also an agricultural county. Navajo County is a grazing county and so is Gra'ham, and Coconino is a mining and grazing county. Mohave County is almost entirely a mining county. Yuma is a mining county, but will be in time a great agricultural county. WANT OF WATER RETARDS CULTIVATION OF LAND. There are already propositions there to convert the Colorado. Pinal County is on the Ciila and so is Pima. None of the lands have been put into cultivation yet that can be, simply because we have not t)een able to put all the hinds in cultivation for want of water. And further the witness saith not. C. T. Walters, called as a witness, and tirst having been duly sworn, testilied as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state vour name to the committee. — A. ]Mv name is C. T. Walters'. Q. Was your census district inside of this city or outside of it i — A. In the city. Q. You took an oath before you began your enumeration to enumer- ate faithfully and accurateiy, did you? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you do so? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Do 3'ou regard your report as accurate? — A. As near so as pos- sibly it could be made. CENSUS — FOUR OR FIVE PERSONS OUT OF '2,000 OVERLOOKED. By Senator Dillingham: Q. What reason was there that it could not be made accurate? — A. Well, the fact of the business is that I could sweai' that it was accu rate, but after the work was done I discovered four or live people that I had overlooked, or not that 1 had overlooked, but people that they had failed to report to me that they were stopping there. Q. How many did you enumerate? — A. It was very nearl}^ 2,000; it lacked very little of 2,000. Q, How many enumerators were there in the city? — A. There were four. There were four wards in the city at that time, and there w^ere four enumerators appointed. Q. It has been claimed that the enumeration did not include any- where near what the population was, and we called you in here to tind out whether that was so and if there was any considerable falling otf of the population in your report from what it actually was; what the reason of it was. — A. Well, at that time of year there is always a falling otf of our population. I found quite a number of vacant houses; quite a number that it was impossible for me to get any information as to the people who had resided there from the simple fact that there was no means of finding out. H s B 10 146 new statehood bill, enumerator's omissions. Q. It was people who had removed, was it? — A. Yes, sir. I expect right at this time, if you would g-o over the same district, I do not think you would tind over two vacant houses to-day. There is a time of year that everybody who are in any kind of circumstances at all. they manage to get awaj' for a few months. Q. Those are the people who get away from the town for the sum- mer to the mountains? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you enumerate anybody that went away? — A. Yes, sir. I knew I was going to enumerate that district, and when I knew of a family that was going away 1 went to them and got them before. Q. Weren't you well acquainted in the city? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Didn't you know what families had removed and were going away, to your knowledge? — A. Well, I could not say that I could. I have lived here a great many years. By the Chairman: ■Q. How many men would 3"ou say you missed in your district? — A. I do not think I missed over five or six. And further the w itness saith not. J. E. Stovall, called as a witness and first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: B\' the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. J. E. Stovall is my name. Q. How old are you? — A. Twenty-six years old. Q. How long have you lived here? — A. Six years. Q. You were a census enumerator? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Where was your census district, in town or outside? — A. In town, the Fourth Ward. Q. Before you entered upon 3^our duties as enumerator did you take an oath to faithfully, honestly, and accurateh^ enumerate the people in your district ? — A. I did. Q. Did you do so': — A. I did. Q. Did you regard the census, as you returned it. as accurate? — A. 1 did at that time: 3^es, sir. COMPLAINTS AS TO CENSUS. By Senator Dillingham: Q. Have you had any complaints made that it was not accurate? — A. Well, when we turned in our reports the board of trade took up some action against us — not exactly against us, but saying that we had not enumerated — that is, that we had not turned in the full amount from the simple reason that at the time of year, in flune, everybody that is able financially goes elsewhere for cooler places; and I know to my I'crtain knowledge that in the Fourth AVard there were a number of the prominent families that were not in town. Q. Did you enumerate them? — A. No, sir; because we had explicit instructions to enumerate no one except what was here. Q. How many did you miss on account of that? — A. That would be hard to say, because some of them were aw^a}' and some of them were here, perhaps. Perhaps they were here in Phoenix and we did not NEW STATEHOOD 15ILL. 147 get hold of them, and the family was away. If 1 wa.s to give you an estimate 1 could not do it on authority. Q. What do you mean by saying that the family was away? That the hus))and was here and the famih' was away ^ — A. No. Now, I know of one family especially, that he was here, and I tried to catch him. She was a widow lady, and she and her daughter were out of town; they were over to California. And at the same time one of the boys was here, and 1 tried to catch him. and I did not do it: and what are you going to do about it? Q! What did you do about it^ — A. Well, I could not catch him. Q. Well, 3'ou made no return? — A. No, sir. PERSONS MISSED BY AN ENUMEEATOR. Q. How many people would jon say you missed in 3'our district, if 3'ou can give a guess ? — A. Well, I should say in the district at that tune, I should say there was at least 1(»() people or more. Q. That you missed? — A. Yes, sir; that were out of here at that time. Q. What was the total number that you took? — A. 1 do not remember. Q. What is a rough guess? — A. I do not know. Q. How are 3^ou able to make a rough guess of the people you missed and you can not make a rough guess of the people you took? — A. It would be a hard matter for me to say. I have forgotten entirel}^ the amount of people 1 took. Q. You can make a rough estimate of the people vou missed, but you can not make a rough guess of the people you took. Do you recollect what pay you got^ — A. Twenty-tive dollai's. Q. How much did you get^^^er head? — A. Well, now, I do not think I just exactly remember. Q. What action did the board of trade take against you i — A. They did not take any special action, only when they reported to Washington that the amount of the enumeration turned in was not correct. Q. They are not satistied with your work? — A. Yes. sir; because they knew there were people that were not here that were not enu- merated, and the superintendent-general of the census wrote to each one of us, and he asked us if we had made the census according to instructions sent out, and we signed that and sent it liack, and that was all there was of it. And further the witness saith not. M. H. McCoRD, called as a witness, testitied as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Please state your name to the committee. — A. M. H. McCord. Q. You are the United States marshal of the district of Arizona? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you some jury lists with you? — A. Yes, sir; it shows the expenses of the trial juries and the grand juries for one year. It runs into two years, but it is for one year complete. Q. 1 see here that the i)ay roll for trial jurors for the quarter end- ing June 30 was $381.05; for the quarter ending March 31, for grand jury, was §i350; and again, trial jurors for the quarter ending March 31, '1902, $i-160. These'are fair samples, are they ^ — A. Yes, sir. Q. How long have you lived in the Territory*?— A. Pretty near ten 3'ears. 148 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q, Awav from the wiiter courses, aside from the mountuin comitry» the mining-, what is the industry of the people?— A. Well, stock raisino-, herding^ sheep and goats; that is all the industry there is. Q. Where is the so-called native or Mexican population? — A. It is mostly in Pima County and Graham County; that is in the eastern part of the Territory. Q. How many natives— that is, Indians— would you say you have in the Territory?— A. Well, when I was govei'nor 1 had a census made and we figured it 37,000. 3IORMON CHURCH MEMBERSHIP. Q. Where is the seven thousand Mormon Church membership located?— A. There is about 2,000 in this county and east of here, and 3,000 in Graham County, and 2,000 in Apache County. And further the witness saith not. Pedro Garcl\ de la Lama, called as a witness, and tirst haying been duly sworn, through the medium of the official interpreter of the committee, testified as follows through the medium of the official interpreter of the connnittee: By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. My name is Pedro Garcia de la Lama. Q. Are you a native of the Territory?— A. No, sir; Mexican. Q. When did you come here?— A. Six years ago. circulation MEXICAN RARER. Q. You are the editor of El Progreso?— A. Y^'es, sir. Q. What is the circulation of your paper?— A. Fifteen hundred; 700 in Arizona. And further the witness saith not. J. J. Otero, called as a witness, and first having been duly sw^orn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Y^ou may state your name to the committee. — A. My name is J. J. Otero. Q. How old are you? — A. I am 28. Q. Are you a native of this Territory ? — A. Y^es, sir. Q. What is your })usiness? — A. The cattle Imsiness. Q. Any other business? — A. The newspaper business. Q. In connection with El Progreso? — A. Yes, sir. Q. That paper is published in Phoenix?— A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you remember what the circulation is? — A. It is about 2,300, I believe. Q. And where does it go— all over the- Territory?— A. All over the Territory. California, and New Mexico. Q. How many go in the Territory ^— A. I do not know exactly; we have got about 700, I guess. Q. Do you say you are a cattleman? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Where is your ranch?— A. In the Tonto Basin. NEW STATEHOOD HILL. 149 Q. How fur from here is that? — A. Northeast from here; it is about 50 miles. Q. Are you on any stream of water? — A. On the Sycamore. PLENTY OF WATER IN KAINY SEASON. Q. Is it possi])le to have a ranch away from a water stream? — A. Well, when it is the rainy season, we have plenty of water to irri- gate and raise Ijarley. Q. Periiianently speaking, can you have a ranch away from a water course? — A. Why, we depend upon the rain there; it is not on the hills. As far as water for the cattle, we get the water by springs and creeks — out of the springs and creeks. Q. You are on a water course, as I understand it: you are on a stream?— A. Yes, sir; part of the time it is running and part of the year it is dry. Q. You speak Spanish, do 3 ou ? — A. 1 do. Q. Do the pepple employed by you speak Spanish? — A. Yes; and English. And further the witness saith not. DwiGHT B. Heard, called as a witness, and first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. D wight B. Heard. Q. And your age? — A. Thirty -three. Q. And how long have you 'lived here? — A. Eight years in next March. Q. You are one of the water-storage commissioners? — A. Yes, sir. Q. You are familiar with how much of this Territory?— A. Why, I know this valley very thoroughly, and something of Prescott, and something of Flagstaff, and something of Tucson. Q. In what portions of the Territory which you have named are there irrigation works actually in operation ? — A. The principal irriga- tion in the Territory is in this valley and in the Upper Gila Valley. And there is also quite a small irrigated section just south of Tucson; and there is a splendid irrigated section in the Gila \^illey, about 30,000 acres. Q. How much would you say at the present time is actually under irrigation? — A. In the whole of the Territory? ACTUAL IRRIGATION. Q. Yes, sir, in the whole Territory. — A. About 185.000 acres under actual cultivation. Q. At the present time? — A. Yes, sir. Q. The water for irrigation purposes comes from the Salt and Gila, or from any river where the irrigation is? — A. Yes, sir; they bring some from the Colorado River; the Salt, the Gila, and the Colorado are the irrigating streams; and the Verde, also. Q. Will you state to the committee what the effect is when there is a drought, or lack of rain and snow fall? — A. Well, the people are not able to raise the crops that they otherwise would. Q. On account of not being able to put the water on the lields? — A. There is plenty of water, but we are not now able to regulate it. 150 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. The storage and utilization of the waters depend upon regulating the stream, and a part of that is the l)ill which we have before the committee? — A. Yes, sir, and under the general irrigation law. NATURAL 1 AINFALL WILL RAISE NOTHING. Q. When there is no water — when you have water, I understand the soil to be extremely fertile? — A. Extremely so. The natural rainfall will raise nothing in this country. I can say to you that at one time I was a little skeptical on this question of stat(diood, but now I sin- cerely believe that Arizona is worthy of statehood. I want to put myself squarely on record on that question. And further the witness saith not. Frank Luke, called as a witness, and tirst having been dul}' sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state vour name to the committee. — A. Frank Luke is my name. Q. And what is your official position here;' — A. City assessor and tax collector. Q. Do you collect the license taxes here? — A. Y^es, sir. LICENSES. Q. Will you state to the committee what the license taxes here are for? — A. Well, we have the merchants' tax, the merchants' license, and the saloon license. Q. And games of chance? — A. Gambling licenses also. Q. What are the saloon and gambling licenses? — A. The saloons are $50 a quarter, and the gambling license P2() a month. Q. Does this license permit them to keep the saloons and gambling places open on Sunday^ — A. Yes, sir. Q. That is under the Territorial statute? — A. Y"es, sir. Q. What is the total revenue derived from this source? — A. The total collection of last j'ear was over $125, (m>0 — between S25,00O and $26,000. That takes in the merchants, the saloons, the gambling, and everything. I am also the tax collector, and we get a revenue from that 'source of about $33,000. Q. That is from what taxes? — A. The property taxes. Q. Over $25,<)00 of revenue from the licenses and over $43,000 from the property taxes? — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. F. M. Murphy called as a witness, and tirst having ])een duly sworn, testified as follows: B}^ the Chairman: Q. Please state 3'our name to the committee. — A. F. M. Murphy. Q. The committee would like to have from you a compact state- ment, as compact as you can give to the committee, of the railroad situation in the Territory, actual and prospective, carefully discrimi- nating between what is actually completed, and what is really build- ing and what is in contemplation. — A. It would be better for me tirst to speak of what 1 am intimately associated with, and have control of NEW RTATEHOOD BILL. 151 to a large extent. 1 am at this time extending what is called the Prescott and Southeastern road into the Bradshaw Mountain district. Q. Where does that road come from? — A. That leaves the Santa Fe, Prescott and Phoenix about 6 miles north of Prescott, and runs east and south. THE PRESCOTT AND SOUTHEASTERN RAILWAY. Q. How far does it run east and south? — A. From the point that it leaves the Santa Fe, Prescott and Phoenix it is now completed about 26 miles. The first 8 or 10 miles, after passing through that point of rocks down there, it opens out into Lonesome Valley; and then, after traversing the valley a few miles, into the mountains; the mines are being developed in the mountains on both sides, and large and exten- sive operations are bfeing- conducted at this time. And then after passing through this valley it swing's out into the mountains, and the first place of importance that we encounter, commercially speaking, is the Valley Verde Smelting Compan^^'s plant. Q. Is it completed there? — A. Yes, sir; that is there, and there is a custom smelter there that is proving- a great success and a great ele- ment of assistance in the development of that section, because it fur- nishes a ready market for the local ores that can not stand the trans- portation to the smelters that are located at the ditierent points in the east — Denver and El Paso, if you please. Prior to reaching that point, the station just before arriving- there, the stage leaves for the Verde Valley, which is quite an extensive valley of a considerable irrigation; and passing through the Cherry Creek district, a district of consider- able importance, there are a number of mills going up in there. Then, after leaving- that point, for the next lU miles 1 venture to say that you can easily see from the railroad where a dozen difi'erent mining companies are in operation to-day; hoisting plants are in operation, and putting up mills, and getting into that condition where they^ are just reaching- a producing stage. Some of them are producing very satisfactorily, and are on a dividend-parang basis to-day. Then at the bend, just about 6 or 8 miles from the smelter, I have just completed a branch road into what is known as the Big Bug district. It cost me. $25(),U00 to complete it. OTHER LARGE INDUSTRAL OPERATIONS. At that point the company that I am president of has erected a 20-stamp mill, and we are putting- a tunnel through the mountain 8,000 feet long, which will connect with another mining district on the other side of the mountain. The mines on that side of the moun- tain, under existing conditions, have to transport their stuti' 11 to 16 miles over rough roads to get their stuff to Prescott; and this gets it in touch with the railroad. We are nearly 2,(»0(> feet on either side of the mountain, and working with air compressors and machine drills on both sides of the mountain. Then, after having completed that ))ranch road, I took up the extension of the Prescott and Eastern, and they will have it completed by January 1, 16 miles on the end of that, into the Bradsha^v Mountain district. FURTHER EXTENSION OF ROAD. I am now about to complete contracts for the extension of that road for another 11 miles of very heavy mining work; well, we will have- 152 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. two or three switch backs in it, in order to get over the divide, to get into another rich mining district. By Senator Dillingham: Q. How much is now actually completed and in operation, and how much in prospect? — A. About 39 miles will have been completed by the 1st of January, and the other 11 miles I expect to contract for right away. That will complete that to the heart of a verj^ large mining district. By the Chaikmax: Q. Will you proceed, Mr. Murphy? — A. Now. I have authority from the Sante Fe to put on engineers now any time; in fact, I could have done that any time for the last two months. another line. I have a sort of a roaming commission to put them on wherever I think proper, to locate a line from a point on our lines to a point on the Colorado River, 90 miles. We have had our mining engineers in there and examined the entire country. Q. Have you surveyed it^ — A. Only by reconnoissance. I have been working at so many ditierent places that I have not had time to get at it. I wanted to make use of some of the people that I have that I have entire contidence in. I have had that investigated by Prof. John A. Church, one of the l>est mining engineers in the countrv. Now, I have had Mr. Drake, our chief engineer, to make a reconnois- sance of it preliminary to a survey. That I'oad is going to be com- pleted, and I will have the engineers in there very soon. I have had a reconnoissance made for a line running 22 miles north of Hot Springs. Two or 3 miles this side of there we come to a point where we go into the Hot Springs. There is another district in there, and there are two or three hundred men in there. And it is Just a question of a little more extension of development work that is now going on to put the men in there and construct the road in there. ^ I have a sort of a roaming privilege to put the men in there and build the roads that I think ought to be l»uilt. I am building to Pinal County from here, via Florence; that will supply all that country that will be available by the construction of the San Carlos irrigation canal. I am just now laying the rails out of here for 5 miles, and I have got two sets of pile drivers at work laying the approaches. We are almost up to them now. I want to complete the tinal location of the balance of the line. We made our preliminary survey. That took us two or three months, and then it took us six months to fix the loca- tion of the line tinally, I succeeded in getting the right of way for 25 miles about three week ago, and I let the contract for 25 miles of this road, and that is under construction now. and we commenced grading about ten days ago. Q. That is in the course of construction ?— A. Yes, sir; and will be completed to a point — to Benson — supplying a very large mountain mining and agricultural country east of this point — east of Tempe and Mesa. The railroad construction that I have referred to now is some- thing that is directly under my own supervision and is controlled by me, and I have authoritv to go ahead with it. I have authority to let NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 158 additional contracts, and I am getting up additional rights of way at different points, and when I get it ready I will let the contracts. At a point on that road where it turns to go south this same Prof. John A. Church, that we keep in the held to make reports to us in support of numerous examinations that I have had made ))y different i)eople, giving us the detailed information of the districts and the possible traffic to be developed, he would make us a simplified statement, and he makes the statement to me that at some point on that road, about 100 miles from here, there will be the largest city in Arizona. PROSPECT FOR A LARGE CITY. That is his prediction. There is a very highly mineralized section of country there that will be supplied l)v this railroad, and associated with that is probal)ly one hundred and tifty or two hundred thousand acres of as fine land as ever was that is only partially supplied with water. Q, How far is that from the San Carlos Canal; how niuch is there irrigated from the San Carlos Canal i — A. I do not suppose there is over 5,000 or 6,000 acres of that 150,000 that is being supplied right now. Q. The rest depends upon the reservoir? — A. Yes. sir: largel3^ That was one of those enterprises when it was first started in Arizona, was like many other enterprises started in Arizona; they were gotten together and bonded and capital secured on the basis of the returns that they could figure out on the land before it was occupied, and a large part of those enterprises failed out there. LIVE E^'TERPRISES. Now. that has been true in many cases in Arizona; but the changed conditions and the few years that have intervened have brought to bear on that intelligence, and capital sufficient now. and they are taking all these things up and proffting by the mistakes made and putting them into live enterprises, and that is true here of many of the enterprises throughout the Territory. Now, speaking of the railroad situation, that covers pretty much what I have direct control of, so to speak. The Santa Fe runs through the north part of the Territory from where it leaves the New ^Mexican line to the Colorado River, which is the west line of the Territory. There is a railroad which leaves the Santa Fe running from Kingman up to Chloride. The development in there is very heavy now. Q- What is this road that comes down from Ash Fork \ — A. That is the Santa Fe, Prescott and Phoenix. That is controlled by the Santa Fe. and 1 operate it for them. Q. The road from here to Benson is what ^ — A. That is where I control the thing, where it extends to-day; just where it will fall later I am not prepared to say. The Southern Pacific goes through the lower or southern part of the Territory. Unfortunately for the Ter- ritory, neither of the transcontinental roads touch the rich mineral or agricultural part of the Territory. In the extreme southern part of the Territory the El Paso and Southwestern has developed recently a system of roads there that covers several hundred miles. ' Q. Does that pass through Bisbee? — A. Yes, sir; the road that you 154 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. go over. They have also built a line from Douglas to Bisl)ee, and on down into Mexieo. and their business conies out and Arizona gets the benefit of it. They have a line from Bisbee to Naco, and on into Mexieo. Their traffic comes out from Mexico, and they get the benefit of it. The road that leaves Benson, paralleling the El Paso and Southwestern, and on to Nogales, branching ofi' at Fairbank, at Nogales it goes on into Mexico. NOGALES, A THRIVING TOWN. At Nogales there is a very thriving town; that will be a prosperous place. Eighteen miles out from Benson they have completed a grade for a road to Tombstone. They are probably laying rails now. That is Phelps, Dodge & Co.'s property. The Southern Pacific have just completed a survey for a line crossing from Cochise, which is a point in the neighborhood of SO miles east from Benson, going directly south, passing the Commonwealth mine, which is the Penrose mine; that is. Senator Penrose's brother. It will be suggested to you that all of these roads are going into this southern country that I am speaking of. Q. Is that in course of construction? — A. They have just completed their surveys. Q. How long is that branch? — A. Well, in the United States I should suppose it would be about loo miles long. Q. And how long in Mexico? — A. Oh. three or four hundred miles, proba])ly; but it brings traffic into the United States, you know, and enriches that tier of counties all along the border. OTHEK NEW RAILROADS. Then, the Arizona and New Mexican road, that runs from Lords- burg, on the Southern Pacific, to Clifton and Morenci; they have carried that down to connect with the El Paso, and that lets them into Deming. Q, Is that completed i' — A. Yes. sir, and in operation. Q. How long is it from Morenci to Deming? — A. I should judge about 1elt of pine tinibcn- in the United States, in this Territory, that extends from the Grand Canyon into New Mexico, in the southeastern portion, about ♦!<> to SO miles in width and 300 miles in length. The greater ])ortions of it have been included in the forest reservations and in the Indian reservations. That country must depend entirely upon grazing for its success in the portions outside of the timber land. There is very little mining up that way; some little up aljout the Grand Canyon. YAVAPAI COUXTY A GRAZING, MINING. AND AGRICULTURAL REGION. Yavapai County is a grazing, mining, and agricultural region. You saw the Congress, and the ()ctave is 11 miles from there, and the Glach near that, and some in operation and some not. The mineral belt comes into that county from Mohave, in the northwest. There are verv rich ores there to-day, and some have been worked out, but others have taken their places. This county is an agricultural county, although there are some mines in it about Wickenberg, The old Vul- ture mine back of Wickenberg — some nine millions have been taken out of that. They have about 135,000 acres actually under irrigation here at the present time. The main crop is alfalfa, to feed stock brought down from the north or from the ranges. Yuma County, to the west of us, is a mining and agricultural county. The water for irrigation there comes from the Colorado River. About 50.000 acres inunediately below the city of Yuma is in irrigation at the present time; some from pumping water and some from the river. They pump, in some instances, in order to get rid of the silt that flows down this stream. That silt is very heavy, and, while it enriches the soil, it cakes upon it and makes it hard' for cultivation. Pima County, next east of here, is agricultural, mining, and stock raising, mainl3^ That is one of the old original three counties cut up. It is very rich. Tucson is a prosperous town about the size of this, perhaps larger, and is perhaps the third oldest town in the United States. They irri- gate there from the waters in the Santa Cruz. ABANDONED MINES. Very few of their mines are now in operation, the reason being the fall of the price of copper and the cost of freight. Cochise County is the richest county, probably, and has been developed in the last two or three years in railroad l)uilding. mining, and cattle ranging. They have built there the El Paso and Southwestern Railroad ])ack in these mining camps, giving them an outlet, and intend building other branches to that. These lines parallel the Southern Pacitic, and gradually run away from it and go through the diflerent mining camps of the county. They have the large Bisbee mines, which you will see. and the Pierce mine, the largest gold-producing mine in the Territory; the Commonwealth, and the smaller mines being opened up in the diflferent parts of the county, alreadv producers. At Bisbee they have drilled and have found their copper ore bodv for a distance of V) miles from the original discovery at the Copper Queen, show- ino- that the ore Itody follows the vein for that distance; they have a distance of from two to three hundred feet at one end to eleven hun- NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 157 dred feet at the other end. That is a very valual)le ore deposit. In Santa Cruz County, throuo-h this county and section they have the San Pedro River and branches, and they have found artesian water along- that, and are developing it. That county is cut oti' from Pima County, and is on the ^Mexican border, south of Pima C'ounty. That is a smaller county, and on account of the town of Nogales, which is the main town, and as a mining- and agricultural section, has more industries than they have in Cochise and Pima. Graham County is a mining and agricultural county. In the moun- tains thev have the Clifton and Morenci mines and the Shannon Cop- per Company. I suppose they are among- the largest copper mines in the world. They reduce there, and make an immense prolit on 5 per cent copper ore. The Clifton Company is owned by a Scotch corporation, and I have understood in years past that they expended $7, ()(»(>, OOo liefore they got out a dollar, and that they could not hardly g-ive away the stock at one time, and now vou can not buy it. They handle immense quantities of ore, and consider themselves lucky if they get ore that makes 5 per cent. Phelps. Dodge & Co., of New Yoi-k, own the Copper Queen. Above there thev have fifty or sixty thousand acres of land in cultivation and under irrigation. That is on the line running from Bowie, on the Southern Pacitic, running to Globe. MORMON SETTLEMENTS. That is a very prosperous and thrifty section of the Territory. The main settlers tliere, however, are Mormons. They are a very thrifty class of people and they have successfully raised all sorts of fruit. In that county they also' tind artesian water by boring. Gila County is entirely a mining and agricultural county. Pinal County is the same, except in the valley about Florence; they irrigate there to quite an extent. The Territory as a whole is in a thoroughly prosperous condition, and every year makes material advancement in the devel- opment of mines, in the development of the agricultural resources, and in the development of the stock industry. These are the three main industries. In every county in the Territory- you will lind a progressive class of people,'^ energetic, patriotic, and thoroughly Ameri- can. Our towns are growing rapidly. Within six months considera- bly over two hundred Iniildings have been erected in Tucson. The town of Prescott has grown materially within the last year, and has been entirely reconstructed and many ncAV buildings erected above the old ones replaced after the tire. DROUGHT OF LAST FOUR YEARS MATERIALLY AFFECTED WATER SUPPLY. Florence and Phoenix have been more at a standstill for the reason that the drought of the last four years has very materially atiected the amount of water, the surface flow of the streams, and the general water suppl}'. EFFECT OF STORAGE DAM. By Senator DillinCtHa:m: Q. Governor Brodie, what will the effect be if the storage dam is built which is under consideration, and of which we saw the model 158 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. this morning?— A. Well, this reservoir would be tilled in most an}- one Hood. %Ve have two rainy seasons, the summer and winter; the heaviest storms coming in the winter, generall}^ in Januarv and Feb- ruarv. In one of those storms the flood waters flowing down from the mountains would All any reservoir that we could construct on any one of these streams, and particularly on this Salt River, which has so manv branches and drains so large a country. The eflect of that would be to increase the area to be irrigated. That one reservoir would irri- gate 480, 000 acres of land, l)y a conservative estimate. The natural flow of the stream would be allowed to go on its way down the stream, for the use of prior locations. The natural flow would not irrigate the amount of land that they have under cultivation in this valley. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. That dam would not in any way afl'ect the natural flow of the stream? — A. Oh, no; it is to store and impound the flood waters, and 1 understand that their purpose is to make a canal around the lake, so that they can send the entire natural flow of the stream around. It is <'ustomary to measure the natural flow and let that nuich out, but in this case 1 understand that it is the intention to build a canal and let the natural flow go around. PUBLIC I^STITUTIONS, SCHOOLS, CHURCHES. I believe that I can consistently say that the public institutions in the Territoiy — the schools, the' churches, the university, and the normal schools— are in excellent condition. I should say tirst, the pul)lic schools would compare favorably with those of almost any other division of the United States. We take a special pride in our pul)lic school system, inaugurated here in the early days under Gov- ernor Saflord. ' It has been greatly builded up, until to-day we have schoolhoiises in every disti'ict, and education is made compulsory up to a certain age. The normal schools are very progressive and thor- oughly up to date, thoroughly equipped, and have a most excellent corps "of professors. We have two normal schools, one at Flagstafl' and one at Tempe. The University of Arizona at Tucson is a most creditable institution. It is kept up by appropriations I)y the General Government, to a certain extent. It is an agricultural college. They have an experimental station here in this valley; another at Tempe, above there, where they are cultivating the date palm very successfully on alkali land. I understand— I believe— they have from the General Government §40,000 a vear, coming everv two vears, and that that is to be applied for specifi'c purposes. The Territory, by appropriation during the difl'erent years, has built the buildings at the Territorial university; and this last vear they voted $25,000 in bonds for the construction of a librarv and" museum. Now, you will have an opportunity to see the university during vour stav in Tucson. Last year we also constructed at Tucson a reforiii school," for which was voted §!>.5,000 in bonds. The building has ])een flnished, l)ut it will depend upon this coming legis- lature—the amount of money they appropriate for buildings and fur- nishings—to make it possible to utilize the school. This is for the general purposes of a reform school. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 159 TERRITOKIAL PRISON. Our Territorial prison is located at Yuma and is in good condition. It consists of a large wall aljout the grounds, with buildings inside — the cell rooms. The prisoners are utilized in the late 3-ears only on the repairs and additional vrork about the prison, in making adobes for sale, and in making excavations for new works about the prison. There is probably work there for them for the coming year. There are nearly three hundred prisoners in that penitentiary. The Terri- torial insane asylum is located here at Phoenix. It is only 8 miles out of town. It is a veiy creditable institution. The Territory, not being- wealthy, has to add to each institution as occasion demands, and from year to year, or from two years to two 3'ears, at the meeting's of the legislature. TERRITORIAL TAX RATE HIGH. The rate of taxation in the Territory is excessively high as compared wdth the rate in the Eastern States and Territories, for the reason that these public Iniildings have been constructed: bonds have been for aid to railroads, and have been voted for an exhibit at the World's Fair, or at the ditierent world's fairs, and for other purposes: and I might not l)e far wrong in stating that the average rate in the ditierent coun- ties would reach perhaps S8.50 on the ^100 valuation. By Senator Dillingham: Q. What proportion do you get on personal property, and what on real estate ?-^A. The proportion of taxable property would be very hard for me to say, unless I went back to the auditor's office. There is a very small proportion: all real estate that is patented is taxed. There is a very small proportion, perhaps, of personal property taxed; that is, considering stock and everything. The reason for that is that it is hard to get an exact accounting of the cattle on the ranches. By Senator Burniiam: Q. How does the valuation for taxation compare with the true val nation of the property^ — A. Well, the matter is left almost entirely in the hands of the owner of the property, who certities on the return that he sends to the assessor. If the board of supervisors, sitting as a board of equalization, see cause, the}' raise these assessments. I should judge that on the average the assessed valuation would be pei-haps one- third up to one-half of the actual value of the property, except, per- haps, when they give returns on cattle, they value those at about 50 per cent of their value. The people of the Territory, as a general thing-, almost unanimously believe that they are in a condition linancially and in every wa}' to carry on a State' government. They think they are entitled to admis- sion'to statehood^ for the reason that the.v are of the class that they are: that they are ai>le to carry on a government, and that it will be beneficial as a whole to the people if they are admitted as a State. They have a great desire in this country, as in all others, to have a voice in the selection of their officials: to have them responsilde to the people for the places that they hold. They desire particularly the stal>ilitv that comes with a State government": the stability in the laws of the State that comes with a State government: and they desire par- 1()U NEW STATEHOOD BILL. ticLilarly that prosperity that coiiies from statehood, as has been shown, I believe, with one exception, in every new State admitted in the last twenty-tive years. ASSESSMENT OF TAXABLE I'ROPERTY. The assessment of the taxable property for this year amounts to something- over $39,000,000. There are mines in this Territory that if you were to offer them $89,000,000 for them they would refuse it. Take the Jerome property; they would not take 1100,000, 000 for it, I think. They refused §60,00(i,i»o0 for it some years ago. The growth of this Territory, gentlemen, has been magnificent within the last thirty-two years, since I have known it. When I first came here, thirty-two years ago, outside of the towns it was ver}' seldom that within a hundred miles you would meet a per- son or find a house; to-day the country is thoroughly settled from one end to the other; the Indians are all at peace and on their reserva- tions; and, taking it all in all, Arizona has shown as large strides as any other subdivision of the United States, when you consider the difficulties that had to be encountered. I would like to say all the good that I can for Arizona. I wish to say that I myself believe personally that a State government in this Territory, if adopted, could be carried on successfuily; that it will be for the benefit of the Terri- tory financially and in every other wa}', and will inure to the benefit of the peopleof the Territory, if they be admitted. You will have good opportunity to see the class of inhabitants throughout Arizona; your tour through it being almost in a circle will give you a very fair idea of the class of population that we have here. Judge Nelsox G. Laytox, called as a witness, and first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator Dillingham: Q. Please state your name to the committee. — A. Nelson G. Layton. Q. You reside in Phoenix? — A. Y"es, sir. Q. And your official position is what? — A. Superintendent of public instruction for the Territory. Q. How long have you held the position? — A. Since the 1st of July last. CONDITION OF THE SCHOOLS. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. We desire to ascertain the condition of the schools of the dis- tricts, and so on. and the extent of them, and the number of children enrolled, and so on, and have called you before the committee to ask you to give us this information. — A. Well, now, I have a little report here, which is a part of my biennial report. We have the number of children of school age, which is from 6 to 21 in this Territory: at this time the number is 25,259. The number of children enrolled in the public schools of the Territory is 19,203. The average daily attend- ance last year was, in the public schools, 11,514. The whole number of school districts in the Territory is 275. The number of grammar schools is 122; the number of priniary schools is 320. The whole num- ber of male teachers is 118, of female teachers 339, making a total of 457 teachers. The number of new districts organized during the year was 11; the number of new schoolhouses built was 19. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 1()1 STATISTI(\S. The imniber of voluiiu's in the school libraries is 11,63(). The avei'a^'e number of da,vs that schools were maintained in all of the school dis- teicts was 125 for the year. The average salary paid to the male teachers was |>85.51; the average salary paid to female teachers was $71.75. That is per month, of course. The amount received from the Territorial fund to be distributed among the districts was $22, 051 ; the amount received from the county taxes Avas $195, (JOl^, the amount received from the special district taxes was $14,120; the amount received from poll taxes was $23,942; the amount receiA^ed from licenses, tines, and miscellaneous sources, $80,748.12; total receipts, $530,648.64. The expenditures for last year were: Paid for teachers' salaries, $224,599.86; amount paid for lil)raries, $357.55; amount paid for school apparatus, $2,137.44; amount paid for new buildings and school furniture, $60,954.23; amount paid for repairs, fuel, etc., $61,529.53; amount paid for miscellan(H)us purposes, $27,106.79, mak- ing the total expenditures for the year $401,235.59, leaving a balance on hand at the end of the school year of $129,413. The total bonded indebtedness for building new schoolhouses is $297,737.84. The total A^aluation of all of the school property is $654,942. That is the tabu- lated statement. I have here a comparative table of progression, show- ing the progression in our schools from 1885 to the pi-esent time, which 1 will leave Avith the committee as a part of my stateuient. (The statement is attached as Exhibit I.) J. C. Adams appeared before the conuuittee as a witness, and, fii'st having been duly sworn, testified as folloAvs: Mr. Adams. I have only been here seAcn years, and after I had been here about a year and a half they elected me mayor here, and I was in a position to pretty thoroughly understand the morals and other things that happen in a Western town. Five or six A'ears ago in this toAvn bawdyhouses Avere public, and were practically licensed by the collection of tines. Women without license Avere alloAved to sing in saloons and allowed to go around to the games and hang over the bars, and do things of that kind, without any ordinance. IMPROVED MORAL CONDITIONS. The bawdA'houses were driven out of town, and they located just across the border of the city limits, and I then, at the request of the citizens, got the council to expand the limits of the territory of the toAvn until Ave have a tremendous corporation noAV, so far as the limits are concerned, and they were l)v that means driven out of existence, and to-day there are absolutely no l)awdyhouses, licensed or otherwise — absolutel}" none — as I am informed, and 1 believe that my information on that is rcdiable. The Avomen in the saloons were gradually gotten rid of. Thev used to sing in the saloons, and without any ordinance at all 1, as mayor, told them^ — told the saloon keepers — that the women could not drink over their bars or sing in the saloons or hang about them. I says, '"If a-ou want them to sing in your saloons, 3'ou may do so by putting a platform back on the back part, and that is as far as they can go in your saloons.-' That Avas the lirst move, and after that an ordinance was passed taking them entirely out of the saloons. H s B 11 162 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. GAMBLING A LICENSED FEATURK. As far as o-ainl)linir is concerned, it is a licensed feature in the city, but every bit of oambling- that is done in this country is done, I think, absohitely on tiie scjuare, upon the square principle, as far as they can be conducted: that is, 1 do not know of such a thing as a brace game — that is, in other words, the men playing- faro or roulette and those things here — they are conducted on the square, so far as taking advan- tage of the players is concerned. 1 believe, as far as the licenses are concerned, that if we were a State that these things here woukl be wiped out. That belief is based upon some of the things that have actually occurred here. LOCAL-OPTION LAW. The last legislature passed a local -option law. They held an election in this county under the local-option law, which meant the wiping out of the saloons. If that law carried, the saloons would g-o, as such, and an election was held in a great many districts, and outside of this town, Tempe, and Mesea the vote Avas 4 to 1 to wipe out the saloons, unless petitioned for by a majority of the freeholders of that district. Now a saloon can not exist in Maricopa. There can not be a licensed saloon outside of Phoenix, Tempe, and Mesea. We have A.lhambra and Peoria. Those are two other little towns that were 3 or 4 to 1 against the licensing of saloons. When I was mayor we had three policemen, two in the daytime and one at night. It was a pub- lished fact, and it was called to my attention during the last election, that only one sheriff in the last fifteen years has shot at a man and only one sheriff' has been shot at in the last fifteen years in this county. And I simply wanted to mention these things to the committee because they are facts. 1 am here, planted here with what I have. THE AVERAGE CITIZENSHIP. I believe that the average of the citizenship of this count}' at least will average with the citizenship almost anj^where, and it is reall}^ the wish, I know, of 98 men out of 100 that have property here that we may have statehood. Further hearings were here adjourned to Tucson, Ariz. Tucsox, Ariz. , Novemher 19^ 1902. At 11 o'clock a. m. , at the Orndorff Hotel in the above-named city and on the above date, the committee resumed the hearing of testimony with respect to the question of admission of the above-named Territory to statehood. John E, Magee, called as a witness, and first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator Dillingham: Q. You may state 3'our name to the committee. — A. My name is John PI Magee. Q. Were you a census enumerator? — A. Yes, sir. np:w statehood rill. 163 Q. Wluit was your district? — A. The business portion of Tucson. Q, And do you remember about what the enumeration of your dis- trict was, in number? — A. About 3,000; about — may})e a little over. Q. How carefully did you take the enumeration? — A. As carefully as human ino-einiity could do it, accordino- to the instructions given by the department; block by block and house by house. CENSUS COMPLETE AND ACCURATE. Q. Then 1 take it that vour census — your enumeration — was com plete and accurate? — A. Yes, sir; I think so. And further the witness saith not. W. L. G. SouLE, called as a witness, and tirst having been duly sworn, testitied as follows: By Senator Burnham: Q. You may state 3'our name to the committee. — A. W. L. G. Soule. Q. Do you reside here? — A. I do, sir. Q. How long have you resided here? — A. For the last four 3^ ears. Q. Were jou a census enumerator? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What was your district? — A. It embraced the southwest corner of this town; the southwest third. It took in from Congress street to the extreme limits of the town, and from what is called the Military Park up there, the reserve, down to the creek. Q. How many names were, as near as you can tell, included in your enumeration? — A. About 3,700, I think; but I can not remember now. an interpreter used. Q. How careful were you to get a full enumeration ? — A. I was very careful. They were nearly all Spanish there, and I had an interpreter along and I was very careful, and I think I got everybody that was living in the district. Q. Did you have the services of an interpreter all the time? — A. Most of the time. There are very few English-speaking people in that section. It is Spanish and half-breeds. Q. You complied with the requirements, and made a full and com- plete census? — A. I did. Q. And 3"our enumeration included everybody in the district? — A. Yes, sir; I think I took in everybody; I think I did. I had had experience before in Kansas and Colorado in census taking, and I had always been very careful. I have been more so, more so than others would be, because I have thought it would be necessary to be very careful and accurate. And further the witness saith not. Paul Jones, called as a witness, and first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator Heitfeld. Q. You ma}-^ state jouv name to the committee. — A. M3" name is Paul Jones. Q. Are j^ou a resident of this Territory ? — A. I am. Q. How long have you lived here? — A. Over three years and a htilf . IG-t NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. ^^'el■(» you a rcnsus enunicrator^ — A. 1 was. Q. Did you take an oath that you would take the enumeration care- fully and accurately and to tlie ix^st of your ability l)efore you began j^our work ^— A. 1 did. Q. Did you do so^ — A. I did. Q. What was the number of persons that you enumerated in j-our district? — A. My district was above Sixth avenue; the total number was 1,815. Q. Where was j'our district!' — A. It is in the east part of the citj^; east of Sixth avenue. That was nn^ district over there. There were three districts here in Tucson. I had that, Mr. Magee had the one next to that, and Mr. Soule the next one to that. The total popula- tion, as reported to us, was 7,553. INTERPRETER CxENERALLY REQUIRED. Q. What was the nationality of the people in your district? — A. As to the nationalit}^ of the people in my district, 1 at the time thought they were very nearly one-half Mexican or nearlv one-half not Ameri- can born— United States born — and 200 Indians (ISO Indians in the Indian school, and some outsiders), and the rest were Indians or mixed Indians and Mexicans. Q. Did you use an interpreter^ — A. Most all the time. I got some- what familiar with it and got along without an interpreter a part of the time. And further the wntness saith not. Thomas Hughes, Jr., called as a witness, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. My name is Thomas Hughes, jr. Q. Are you a native of Arizona? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you speak the Spanish language? — A. I do; yes. sir. Q. What is your business? — A. Well, I have been in the Post-Office Department for the last six years until I got to be court interpreter. DUTIES OF COURT INTERPRETER. Q. You are the court interpreter in this district, are you? — A. Yes, sir. Q. In both the Federal and Territorial courts? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Your duties are to interpret the testimony of witnesses to the court and jury ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And do 3'ou ever have to interpret the arguments of counsel? — A. No, sir; I never have. Q. Is that the full extent of your duties, just the interpretation of the evidence of witnesses!' — A. Yes, sir; that is all. And further the witness saith not. Prof. Frank Yale Adams, called as a witness, first having been duh' sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Professor, will you kindly state your name to the committee? — A. M}' name is Frank Yale Adams. Q. And what is 3'our age ? — A. I am 85. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 165 Q. You are president of the university ? — A. President of the Uni- versity of Arizona; 3'es, sir. Q. How many students have you this 3'ear^ — A. We have enrolled this year thus far 176 students. Q. Ho^^' many of them are girls';' — A. AI)out one-third are girls. Q. And two-thirds are boys? — A. Yes, sir. CURRICULUM OF THE UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA. Q. What is your eurrieulum, stated in a general way ? — A. We have the difierent departments. We have the literary course, which car- ries the degree of bachelor of philosophy, and we have a scientific course, which carries the degree of bachelor of science, and we have a mining course, leading to the degree of bachelor of science in mining. Q. You do not confer those degrees, do you? — A. Yes, sir; we con- fer them. Q. How long is j^our college course ? — A. Four years, the regular course; and we have a postgraduate course also. Q. What are 5^our requirements for entering the freshman year? — A. Practically the same as are required in the universities. Q. Do you mean that? — A. Yes, sir; 1 do. Q. Well, the same as is required for entrance to the freshman class at Harvard? —A. No, sir; a year less. The same as is required for Stanford, the University of California, etc. Q. Are there an}" other universities in the Territory besides this? — A. No, sir; there are none; this is the only college institution in the Territory. Q. What was your attendance last year? — A. Two hundred and fif- teen. The attendance this year, on the same basis, will be 225. Q. What do 3'ou mean by that? — A. Counting the number in attendance this year at this time in proportion to the number in attend- ance last year at this time. Q. How late do they enter? — A. They enter throughout the year. We have a short course in assaying that takes well — that strikes a good many. And a good many come in for that at the January semester, at the second semester. Of the 176 that we have entered at present probably 100 are taking the full course; the others are taking the various branches for sjiecial work. Q. These students come from all over the Territory, do they? — A. Yes, sir; they do. Q. How man}" do you have from Phoenix? — A. 1 should say that we have from Phoenix and the adjoining territory twenty- five. A SCHOOL OF MINES. Q. And how many have you from Tucson and the surrounding terri- tory? — A. About seventy or seventy-five. We take a special pride in our school of mines. We claim it is the most practical thing in any of the Western States because of the proximity of the mines. And further the witness saith not. Judge George R. Davis appeared before the committee and testi- fied as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Judge, will you please state your full name to the committee? — A. My name is George R. Davis. 166 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. And your age is what ^— A. Forty-one years. Q. How 'long- have you lived here, Judged— A. Something over five 3^ears. Q. Have von been in this district all this time?— A. Yes, sir. Q. Have "you been over the district very much? — A. I have been in the county seats, and in some of the suburban towns in the counties— not all of them. Q. What county seats?--A. I have been to Tombstone; I have held court there twice a year. tombstone's rise and fall. Q. That is quite a town now, is it not?— A. No, sir; Tombstone is not much of a town; it is but a small village. Once it was a great town, one of the great mining camps of the West; but it is a deserted village now. However, there is an effort being made to rehabilitate the mines and the town. LITTLE IRRIGATION LITIGATION. Q. With reference to the civil side of your docket, I suppose niost of your cases on the civil side of your docket are mining and irriga- tion cases? — A. There is very little irrigation litigation in my district. Phoenix is the district in which the largest amount of irrigation litiga- tion is. The litigation is chiefly mining and general commercial practice and suits in regard to titles. Q. On the criminal side, what is the proportion of the crimes that are charged? — A. Well, do you mean the proportion as to the class of crimes ? Q. Yes, sir; the proportion of crimes. —A. Well, we have in every county of the district, at every term of the court, 1 might say, some larcenv cases, some assault cases, and generally some murder cases. Q. What proportion of those cases now are distributed among the so-called ' American" and so-called '^Mexican"' population?— A. It would be my estimate that three-fourths of the persons convicted of felonies belong to the class known as Mexicans. And further the witness saith not. L. C. Hughes, called as a witness, and first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: B}^ the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee.— A. My name m L. C. Hughes. Q. How old are vou? — A. 1 am 59 vears old. Q. How long have you lived in "the Territory ?— A. Thirty-one vears. Q. Are you pretty well acquainted with the Territory ? — A. I think I am. Q. What is your business?— A. 1 am now the editor of the Star. Q. Are you pretty well ac(iuainted with the people of the Terri- torv ? — A. 1 think I am. Q. Is the sentiment here pretty unanimous for statehood? — A. I believe it is. Q. Was there any meeting here yesterday, or recently, concerning that matter? — A. There was. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 167 "TIJE PIONEER SOCIETY." Q. What was that meetino-^ — A. The meetijio- was the uieetinjj;- of "The Pioneer Society." Q. Did they adopt any resolutions at that meet! no- ^ — A. They did. Q. What were they; what was the purport of those resolutions? — A. The ])urport of those resolutions is that they are unanimously in favor of statehood, but they desire to have some amendments made in that section of the omnibus bill which refers to Arizona. Q. What are the amendments which they desire to have made? — A. They desire to have a larg'er number of delegates to the constitutional convention; they desire to have an apportionment made between the respective counties on the Imsis of the census of 1900. APPORTIONMENT A GERRYMANDER. The present apportionment is a gerrymander. They also desii'e ample time from the time when the bill is passed until the meeting of the convention — plenty of time — for the holding of the election for the delegates to the convention; plenty of time — a reasonable time from the time of the election — from the time the election takes place until the convention meets, and then three or four months from the time the constitution has been framed in which it can be presented and dis- cussed before the people until it can be voted on. Q. Are they satisfied with the present omnibus bill? — A. No, sir; they are not. Q. Have you those resolutions with you? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you have a copy tiled with our secretary with your evi- dence? — A. Yes, sir. Now, there is another thing Q. Can you point out your objections to the bill? — A. Yes, sir; the bill is a gerrymander. The bill does not give a just apportion- ment. For instance, but three delegates are given from Pima County, and three are given from Pinal County, and two from all the other counties; and Pinia County has as much population and more taxable property than all these three put together. Q. So you are not satisfied with the apportionment made jn the bill? — A. No, sir; we are not. Q. You were governor of the TerritoiT at one time? — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. The resolutions identified by the last witness and left by him as a part of his testimony here follow: Hat.l op Arizona Pioneer Society, Tucson, Ariz., November 18, 1902. Hon. A. J. Beveridge, United States Senator, (Jhairuian of Committee on Territories. Sir: By direction of the Arizona Pioneer Society I have been requested to present to you the accompanying views and sentiments of the society upon the provisions of the pending liill now before the United States Senate in regard to statehood for Oklahoma, Arizona, and New Mexico," and to respectfully ask the favorable consid- eration of your committee. I have the honor to be, Very respectfully, your obedient servant, [seal.] ' Sidney E. De Long, President of the Arizona Pioneer Society. 1(38 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Ophiioit of llic Siicii'ti/ of Arizi»ui I'ioiieerx, nx defiued at n full uiertinr; held at their rnmnx ill Tiicxou, Ariz., Xoreinber 18, l'.)02, upon the Mfepx that .should he taken in regard to the important question of h ringing Arizona into the United States as a ttorn-eign State. It is not the intention of this society to take part as an association in politics, nor is this deemed a political question, but one in which every good citizen ought to feel a deep interest. It is presumed that all citizens of Arizona are in favor of statehood, imder fair and just conditions to all the people interested, regardless of their political or party affiliations. There has been a bill passed by the House of Representatives at the last session, and wliich is now in the Senate to be acted upon soon after convening in December next, for the admission of Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Arizona as States of the Union, sometimes spoken of as the "omniljus bill." While there is much in this bill that the society would consider beneficial to all, it would seem in some of its provisions to have i3een prepared hastily and without proper consideration for the rights of the whole people, and therefore the society would respectfully suggest that this bill be amended in these particulars before its final passage, or a new bill sul)stituted. First. The representation of members for the constitutional convention called to frame a' State constitution should be apportioned among the several counties of the Territory according to the whole population as declared by the census of 1900, unless a new special census be declared and taken by due authority; and it might be con- sidered an improvement to increase the whole number of delegates to the constitu- tional convention from thirty-six, as fixed in the bill, to, say, sixty. In the appor- tionment l)y the " omnibus" bill " the apportionment by a political legislature of Arizona for its own members was adopted and not according to the population of the different counties. Second. The society would respectfully suggest that the bill be amended so that the appointment for delegates to the constitutional convention be made among the several counties of the Territory according to the population by the census of 1900. The governor of the Territory, chief justice, and secretary of the same shall declare the nural)er of delegates for said convention apportioned to each county to be voted for. Third. In taking the sense of the people in an election for the adoption or rejec- tion of the said constitution, said election shall be in not less than four months after said convention shall adjourn, after the completion of its labors, and held for the purpose of voting upon the constitution, for or against, as framed by said constitu- tional convention. The vote shall be "for the constitution" or "against the constitution," and no other vote shall be taken for any person or any other subject at that election. Fourth. Should the vote taken upon the constitution be in favor of its adoption, as framed by the constitutional convention, then and in that case the election for State officers and others to be elected when Arizona becomes a State shall be at the next general election in 1904, for to call a special election would put the people to an almost useless expense to reach the same results. Report adopted in full meeting November 18, 1902. [seal.] Sidney R. De Long, President of Societij. James Flynn, called as a witness, and first having been duly sworn testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Yon may state your name to the committee. — A. James Fl3'nn. Q. What ai-e your official duties? — A. City tax and license collector. Q. From what sources does the cit}' derive license revenue? — A. From the saloons and g'am])ling\ Q. How nmch from the saloons? — A. They have changed it; they pay ^25 a quarter now, license. Q. And the next? — A. The gambling privileges, $17.50 a month, SALOONS AND GAMBLING HOUSES NEVER CLOSE. Q. Are both of those open on Sunday? — A. All the time. i\. Day and night? — A. As long as they want to. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 169 MERCHANTS ALSO LICENSED. Q. 1> tluTc any other source? — A. The merchants all pay a license. Q. Hon- much do they pay? — A. Accordino- to the business they do. The}' run fi'om ^3 to ^45 a quarter, merchants' license. Zexkendorf pays $4:5; that is the only one that pa^vs that much. Q, What is the total income to the city from the license revenue? — A. Well, it varies: it will be about $12,000 this year. Q. How many saloons have you? — A. Well, it varies; there is about ■15 now. Q. How many yambling- places? — A. There is 6 places where there is g-amblino- done now. That varies, too. 1 think it is 6 now where there is gambling- done now. Q. There is not a gambling place in every saloon? — A. No, sir. Q. Does the saloon license carry the gambling privilege, too? — A. No, sir; they do not carry the gambling privilege, but anyliody that wants to open a gambling game he can open in any saloon that he pleases, but he has got to pay a license. Q. Is there any other source of revenue? — A. Street fakirs pay, and peddlers, and things like that. Q. This license system is under the statute of the Territory, is it? — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. William Angus, called l\v the committee as a witness, and hrst having been duly sworn, testitied as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the committee ? — A. My name is William Angus. Q. How old are you? — A. Twenty-six years old. Q, Where are you from? — A. I was born in Illinois. Q. How long have you been here?- A. Five years and a half. Q. You are superintendent of the schools of the city and county? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How many schools have you in town?— A. There are 1 build- ings: 21 teachers. SCHOOL ATTENDANCE. Q. And how many children are there enrolled^ — A. There were 1,124 during the first month. Q. And how manv in attendance? — A. And the attendance is a little over 1>00. Q. At the present time, now?— A. Yes, sir; and that is an increase over last year of 2.52 for the corresponding month. Q. Are" graduates from your high school admitted directly into the university, the Territoriallauversity ?— A. No, sir; we have no high school here: the preparatory course in the university takes the place of a high school. I would like to make one more statement, and that is that 65 per cent of my teachers in the county and city are gradu- ates of normals and universities. Q. HoAv many are graduates of normals, and how many are gradu- ates of universities? — A. About half and half; I can not say exactly. Q. Do you know about that? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you mean graduates from the universities, such as we have 170 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. ill the iNIiddlc West, or Yale iind Harvard ( — A. Stanford and Berkeley universities, and the normal .schools of New York and Arizona.' And further the witjiess saith not. M. P. FiiEEMAX, called as a witness, and first having- been duh^ sworn, testified as follows: By the (Jhairiman : Q. You may state A^our name to the committee. — A. My name is M. P. Freeman. Q. How lono- have you been here in Tucson'; — A. Nearly twenty- two years. Q. What is youi' business? — A. I am president of the Consolidated National Bank. Q. Is that the larg-est bank here^ — A. It is the largest in the Terri- tory, so far as its deposits are concerned; not the largest as to capital. Q. What is the extent of your deposits? — A. About $900,(X>0. Q. What is 3^ our capital? — A. Capital $50,000 and surplus and profits §25,000. ^ INTEREST RATES. Q. What is the rate of interest here ? — A. Interest varies from 8 to 12. Q. Never higher than 12? — A. No, sir. About here there are some exceptional loans made as low as 7 per cent, but that is rare; the rate is from 8 to 12. Q. Loans are made in what proportion, what classes of business is meant, what proportion to the merchants, what proportion to the miners, and what proportion to the ranchmen ^ — A. That is rather a difiicult question to answer. Q. Well, in a rough ,vay? — A. Well, I should say that the larger proportion is loaned to the mercantile interests. Q. And then what proportion between miners and ranchmen? — A. The loans on mining properties or mining securities are very small; the}" are confined to the mercantile interests and the cattle interests. And further the witness saith not. (And here, at the hour of 1.30 o'clock p. m., the committee arose, to resume further hearing at the city of Bis))ee, Ariz., at 8 o'clock p. m. of said day.) Copper Queen Hotel, Bisbee, Ariz., Wednesday, ^^ore//djer 19. 1902 — 82)- m- At the above-named place and date the committee resumed the hear- ing of testimony relative to the question of the admission of said Ter- ritorv to statehood. Walter Douglass, called as a witness, and first liaving been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Will you please state your name and age to the committee?— A. Walter Douglass, 32 years of age. Q. How long have you been here, Mr. Douglass? — A. I have been here oil' and on for the last twelve years. Q. What is your business here now? — A. I am superintendent and general manager of the Copper Queen Consolidated Mining Company. Q. Phelps, Dodge & Co. are the owners of that mine, are they not \ — A. Yes, sir. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 171 Q. The town of Douolass is named after your father ?--A. Yes. sir. Q. lie is the president of these companies? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Is the town of Douo-lass near here?— A. It is 26 miles from liere, by the railroad. Q. Is that where the new smelters are being erected?— A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you g-ive a brief statement to the committee of the devel- opment here of the mining properties of your company, the number of men employed, and so forth?— A. Well, we employ approximately 1,800 men; at least there are 1,800 men on the pay roll, but some of them do not w^ork full months. We treat from 8(>0 to 1,00. i tons of ore a day, and we produced last year 20,(»00 tons of retined copper. EMPLOYMENT IN MINES AND SMELTERS. Q. How many of those men are employed in the mines and how many in the smelters ?— A. About half and half —about 900 men under- ground and aliout 900 on the surface. Q. You were kind enough to show the committee a map of the work- ings of the mine, as well as a sample of the mine itself. What is the extent of those levels?— A. Well, I can not say. That statement that I made to you I would not make under oath at all. I believe one of the engineers is supposed to have measured it up at one time, and he measured up over 100 miles, and that was a couple of years ago. Q. That is caused by the fact that you follow the veins as they recede? — A. Yes, sir. Well, there are no veins, as a matter of fact. There are isolated deposits in the limestone, and we have to go by guess- work to find them; but when w^e iind them they are very large. A MINING "CAMP.""' Q.'You call this town a camp?— A. Yes, sir; but it is an incorpo- rated citv. Q. What is the fact as to its being the largest mining camp m the Territorv? — A. Yes, sir; it is. Q. AVhat is the population here?— A. I believe they registered 1,725 votes. It might have been 1,625. We call 5 men to a vote, or 5 people to a vote here, which would run it upward of 9,000 people. We w-ere not incorporated when the last census was taken, and it was taken with the countv at large. Q. AVhy do you locate your smelters at Douglass, 25 miles away, 'instead of here?— A. Because the present smelting works were too congested to do economical work, and the water proposition is a rather difficult one here, and we think there is more water over there. Q. Water is necessarv for smelting? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What other mining properties are there in this region comparable to yours ^— A. Well, the Calumet and Arizona has large ore bodies. Q. Where is that ^— A. That is joining our mines, and it erected a smelter at Douglass and blew it in two days ago. Q. It erected its smelter there for the same reason that you did yours? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you properties at Morenci ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Are they smaller or larger than here?— A. They are smaller producers. The ore is of lower grade. We treat more ore, but we dO' not produce more than two-thirds as much copper. 172 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. How inauy men do you oniploy there ?— A. Probably about 1,200, altoo-ether. Q. And how many in the mines and how many on the surface? — A. It is generally a))out half and half. "MEXICAN" AND '" AMERICAN '' CAMPS. Q. What is the fact about that camp and this camp with reference to what is known, in popular parlance down here, as to the people in the two camps bcino- Mexican or American — as to their being- Mexican or American camps ^ — A. Well, Morenci and Clifton used to be essen- tially Mexican camps, but that don't obtain now, for a very large pro- portion of them are white men. Q. And how is it here? — A. There are 90 per cent white here. Q. AVhat is the per cent of each over there? — A. I could not say, but I should think they might be about half and half over there; possi))ly 40 per cent white and 60 per cent Mexican. THE BOOM DAYS OF TOMBSTONE. Q. Were you here in the boom days of Tombstone? — A. No, sir. Q. Was it a place of considerable consequence about that time? — A. Oh, yes. Q. What is its condition now? — A. Well, its condition is altogether dependent upon what the development will do on the lower lev^els, when they get the water out of the mines. Q. Has there been an increase or decrease in the population since the old days? — A. A very large decrease. It used to be a place of 12,000 people, and a year ago it was a town of six or eight hundred people. Now it is a town of 1,200 people. Q. It depends upon what, do you say? — A. On the mining opera- tions which have been resumed there; and the future prosperity will depend upon whether the ore bodies below the water level will be prof- itable to operate and work. Q. Where are the Commonwealth mines located? — A. In the Sul- phur Springs Valley. Q. Who are the owners of that mine? — A. Mr. Penrose, a brother of Senator Penrose, of Pennsylvania; Mr. Beringer, and Mr. Brock- man. Q. Is that the same Mr. Penrose who is interested in the reduction^ works at Colorado Springs? — A. Yes, sir; the same one. And further the witness saith not. And here, at the hour of 8.30 o'clock p. m., the committee arose to resume its hearings at Las Cruces, N. Mex., Thursdav, November 20, 1902. Committp:e on Terkitokiios, United States Senate. Wa.^h;mjto„. I). C, Tliui'Hday, Jheemher J^, WO^. The committee met at 10.80 o'clock a. in. Present: Senators Beverid^e (chairman), Heitfeld, Patterson. Dil- lingham, Bard, Burnham, and Nelson. Present also: Mr. F. H. Newell, hydrographer of ihv United States (xeoloo'ical Survey. TESTIMONY OF ME. F. H. NEWELL. HYBEOGRAPHER UNITED STATES GEOLOGICAL SURVEY. F. H. Newell, having been first duly sworn by the chairman, testi- fied as follows: The Chairman. Kindly state to the committee your name and ofHcial position. Mr. New^ell. F. H. Newell, hydrographer United States Geological Survev. The' Chairman. As such has it l>een your dutv to examine, from a scientitic point of view, the physical conditions in New Mexico and Arizona^ Mr, Newell. Yes, sir. The Chairman. And have you supplemented that l)y personal inspection ''. Mr. Newell, Yes. sir; since 1888 1 have spent consideral)le time in those Territories and in the adjacent States, WITHIN ARID REGION. The Chairman. Will you state to the committee, in your own way, the situation in the Territory of New Mexico with reference to the question of ariditv ^ Mr. Newell. The Territory is well within the arid region, and agriculture there is dependent almost entirely upon the artificial appli- cation of water. The Chairman. By the artificial application of water you mean irrigation 't Mr. Newell. Yes, sir; irrigation. The principal source of supply is the Rio Grande and its largest tributary, the Pecos lliver. The United States Geological Survey has been measuring the flow of the Rio Grande where it enters New Mexico, and at various points along its course. We have also measured some of its tributaries,- and have measured where it leaves the Territory to form the boundary line between Texas and the Repu1)lic of Mexico. We have been making studies of the extent to which that water can be used for irrigation purposes in the future. The Chairman, Will you state to the conunittee the extent to which that water is used at presents Mr, Newell. The usual summer supply is entirely employed, and there is now a considerable acreage under cultivation for which there is not a sufficient supply of water in all seasons. The spring flow — the floods — in large part go to waste, and water storage is absolutely essential to the future development of the Territory. 173 174 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. LITTLE OH NO WATER STORAGE. The Chairman. Does water storage at present exist there? Mr. Newell. There is very little, if an,y, water storage. There is some on a few of the tributaries of the Rio Grande. The Chairman. What would joii say al)out the sufficiency or insuffi- ciency of the water in the Rio Grande for irrigation purposes by means of canals? I will state that the committee, on its recent trip, went along for a considerable distance and observed an absence of water tlierc. That is the reason I ask the question. Mr. Newell. There are very few canals of any consideral)]e size on tiic Rio Rrande. Most of them are small ditches built by the Indians or Mexicans, and the supply is not sufficient for all the irrigated lands in the latter part of the crop season. The river is frequently dry from the international boundary north. That is the normal con- diton of the Territory. The future development of the region rests upon the feasibility of constructing reservoirs along the Rio Grande, and especially in the northern part of the Territory. There are also several projects for water storage in the soutliern portions of the Ter- ritory, and their feasibility will l)e determined by the regularity of the spring Hoods. The Chairman. Is that a matter of certainty, or is it problematical and experimental t Mr. Newell. That is a matter which we are to determine by the surveys now in progress. We believe it possible to construct reser- voirs at different parts of the Territory, and think they will be built within the next century or generation. But no one system has yet been determined upon a« feasible. The Chairman. That is as far as you have gotten ? Mr. Newell. Yes, sir. RIO GRANDE NORMALLY DRY IN SUMMER. The Chairman. You speak aliout the river being dry. The com- mittee observed at El Paso, Tex., that the river was entirely dry and dusty, and people were walking across its bed instead of across the l)ridge. Ml-. Newell. That is the normal condition during the summer season. The C'hairman. I believe you said the other portion of the Territory where there was water was the Pecos, did you not? Mr. Newell. The Pecos is the principal stream of eastern New Mexico. The Chairman. Will you state the supply of that stream, and the availability of its water for irrigation, the character of the water, and other scientific facts wdiich will enlighten the committee? Mr. Newell. The Pecos drains an area of what is generally known as red beds, in which there is a good deal of gypsum, which is easil)' soluble in river water. The river itself is controlled by storage res- ervoirs. There is one at Lake McMillan, about 12 miles above Ros- well, and a secondary one at Lake Avalon, nearer Roswell. Below that it receives water from springs, from the Hondo and a number of other rivers, and the flow is increased. It is nearly all utilized in the canals between Roswell and Carlsbad. Below Carlsbad little water is taken from the river usuall3% the portion utilized being that taken out by the canals at Pecos City, south of the territorial line in Texas. The NEW STATEHOOD HILL. i<5 water, as it g'oes toward the Texas line, is heavily charo-od with gyp- sum, which is taken in solution from the soil through which the water flows. The storag'e capacity on Pecos River and the tributaries can doubtless l)e increased somewhat, but as to how much it can be increased no one knows at present. GYPSU3I IN THE PECOS. The Chairman. You speak of gypsum. Please state to the com- mittee what its effect is — whether it is a fertilizer or the reverse. What effect does gypsum have upon the soil over which it is distributed by the flow of the Pecos River J' Mr. Newell. G3'psum is frequently known as a land plaster and is used in the East as a fertilizer. It is beneficial up to a certain point, but above that point it becomes destructive to crops. The soils of Pecos Valley contain the gypsum in small (juantities. As it increases in percentage it becomes concentrated and injurious. I have seen in the past month a great many acres of orchard land and hundreds of acres of alfalfa land that had lieen destroyed hy what is locally called the "■ gyp " deposit. The Chairman. You have entered generally into the two tracts where there is a possibility of irrigation from streams. I will ask you to state to the committee whether there is any possibility of agriculture in any other portion of the Territory on account of the lack of water? MORE AGRICULTURE POSSIBLE. ]\Ir. Newell. The extreme northwestern portion along the San Juan River has a fairly good water supph^ and there they raise, near Farm- ington, verv valuable fruits; but the area of agricultural land is restricted. Outside of that area and a few other localities where springs and streams exist agriculture is impossible. The Chairman. Here is a map of New Mexico [indicating] which has upon it black areas, dotted areas, and white areas. Is that map prepared by your department ? Mr. Newell. This map is one of a series prepared in the office of the United States Geological Survey from the records of the Land Office. It shows in black the lands which have passed out of the ownership of the Government into the ownership of corporations or individuals. MEXICAN LAND GRANTS. The (Chairman. What was done under the Mexican land grants ? Mr. Newell. Most of the large black patches on the New Mexico map indicate the area and location of the Mexican land grants, con- firmed by treaty with Mexico. The smaller dots on the map represent homestead and other entries made under the existing land laws. The checkerboard pattern in the central part of the Territory represents the alternate sections of land donated to the railroads. The white is the land still in the ownership of the National Government and subject to disposal under existing laws. The Chairman. First taking the black areas, I will ask you whether or not those black areas include all irrigable land, or all land which will support either human or animal life? Mr. Newell. They include practically all of the agricultural land to vvhich water can readily be brought. There is in New Mexico prob- ably no area in the ownership of the United States on which a man can now make a living, except by cattle raising. 17() NEW STATEHOOD BILL. The Chairman. Tlic black areus include all such lands, hut are the entire portions of the bhuik areas such lands as you have described, or is there a portion of them that is of valued Mr. Newei.l. Considerable portions of the black areas, that is, the land grants, nvo nonirri^-al)le and perfectly arid. The lands are val- uable mainly for timber and i>-razino-, but not for agriculture. The Chairman. W^hat is the fact about the white areas — shown on the map — which are subject now to further entry and occupation, as to whether they are capal)le of supporting- any industry or any population i portions can not be further developed. Mr. Newell. The vacant pul)lic lands, shown in white, can not sup- port an}' industry beyond grazing, excepting in the timbered portions. Some timber lands belong to the Government still, but the remaining^ area is composed of grazing lands and is not capal)Ie of further devel- opment. The Chairman. With reference to gi-azing lands. A great deal of testimony was given before the committee to the effect that grazing- was possible for cattle, up to a limit of 5 miles on either side of a water course or water hole. In this white area on this map it does not appear that there are any streams or water courses. Is that the case? Mr. Newell. The grazing there will support a cow to ten, twenty, or thirty acres, provided water can be had within a radius of about 5 miles. That is a fair journey for a cow. The Chairman. You have already described the available water sources of the Territory in answ^er to former questions^ Mr. Newell. Yes. The Chairman. You spoke aljout the timl>er tracts. What is the fact about the timl^er tracts having been largely, or somewhat at least, taken up by grants to institutions or otherwise^ Mr. Newell. The timber areas are rapidly being entered upon under the existing laws, and particularly through the laws granting* lands to the Territory for certain institutions, and for the improve- ment of the Rio Grande. proportion irrigated area. , The Chairman. A question is suggested to me, which seems to be very pertinent. You have descri))ed the limit of the irrigation area. Cbuld you roughly state the proportion that that irrigation area bears to the whole area of the Territory? Mr. Newell. I do not recall the exact figures. They are published in a report prepared for the Twelfth Census. It is my impression that about one-fourth of 1 per cent of the area of the Territory is irri- gated. [Total area of Territory, 78.374,400 acres: amount irrigated in 1889 was 208.898 acres, or .2(5 per cent.] Senator Nelson. That is the percentage that is irrigated? Mr. Newell. Yes, sir. Senator Nelson. Let me ask this: They have practicall}^ irrigated all that it is possible to irrigate under present conditions? Mr. Newell. Yes, sir; without water storage. Senator Nelson. Without storage? Mr. Neavell. Yes. The Chairman. Turning now to Arizona. I understand your familiarity with that Territorv to be the same as with reference to New Mexico? NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 177 AGRICUI.TUKE IMPOSSIBLE EXC^El'T BY IRRIGATION. Mr. Newell, Yes. The Chairman. You may state to the committee what portions of this Territory may be used — whether there is a possi])ilit\- of ag-ri- culture in this Territory except l)y irrigation^ Mr. Neavell. It is not possible excepting- on the northern portion of the Territory. There, at an elevation of about seven thousand feet, settlers are raising small areas of potatoes, without irrigation; and some cereals, cut green, for feeding cattle. The Chairman. Aside from that, the occupation of agriculture is not possible there, except by irrigation from streams. Is that true? Mr. Newell. Yes. The Chairman. In order to make this brief, I will state that the committee understands that tlie irrigated area is aliout Phoenix, some on the Gila River, and some near Yuma. Mr. Newell. Yes. The Chairman. What can you state al)out the sufficiency or the insufficiency of the water supply for the irrigation canals about Phoenix^ CONDITIONS AT PHOENIX SERIOUS. Mr. Newell. The condition at Phoenix is extremely serious, as the land under cultivation exceeds in area the available supply of water; for the last two or three years there has not been sufficient water for more than half or two-thirds of the land which has been normalh' luider cultivation. The Chairman. Is that because there is not enough water in the river ? Mr. Newell. It is because of the shrinkage of the river during the past few years. The Chairman. Is there any other source of water supply for irri- gation, except that water from the rivei"? Mr. Newell. That is the only source excepting a small amount of water to be obtained from deep or artesian wells, and from shallow wells in the gravels near the river channel. The Chairman. Could any appreciable (juantity of ^vater be obtained in that way, taking into consideration the whole area^ Mr, Newell. That would probably not represent more than 1, 2, or 8 per cent of the entire area that is irrigable. The Chairman. Are there any other sources available if Mr. Newell. None, except by storing the spring Hoods. The Chairman. That brings us back to the storage (fuestion, which I understand is something to be determined in the future, and which is problematical. PHOENIX system MOST PERFECT. Mr. Newell. Yes. The Chairman. Is it a fact that the irrigation s\'stem in use around Phoenix is the most perfect irrigation system in either of the two Ter- ritories t Mr. Newell. Yes; the system of canals near Phoenix is the largest and most complete in the two Territories. The Chairman. Here is a map of Arizona, which I take it is also prepared by j^our department, and which has black areas and white areas [producing mapj. h s b 12 178 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Mr. Newkll. Yes, sir; it is of the same series as the map of New Mexico, pre\iousiy discussed. The CiiAiuMAN. Will you explain to the committee what those black areas and white areas mean? Mr. Newkll. The black areas of the map represent the lands which have passed into the hands of individuals or corporations. The amount is extremely small with reference to the area of the Territory and small as compared with the lands in private ownership in New Mexico. The northern part of the Territory is crossed b}^ the broad land grant of the Atlantic and Pacific Railroad Company, and in that the railroad is the owner of every alternate section, but the selections have only been to a small extent, as shown by the map. All the lands that maybe selected in the future are not shown on the map. The railroad has not selected them, as I understand, l)ecause the company does not wish to pa}" the taxes on the lands. Senator Nelson. Is there a road built through there? Mr. Newell. The road has been operated for fifteen years, more or less. The company has a right to select alternate sections within the broad bands running across the entire northern half of the Terri- tor}", extending for 40 miles each side of the railroad. explanation of map. The Chairman. As to irrigation, please describe the condition of the rest of the Territor}^ with reference to the occupation of agricul- ture outside of the black area shown on the map. Mr. Newell. Outside of the black area there are practically no lands susceptible of irrigation, except in the contingency of very extensive storage in the future. The Chairman. Will you state, if you can. roughly speaking, what proportion the lands under irrigation bear to the entire area of the Territor}" 'i Mr. Newell. It is probably about a fourth of 1 per cent. I can correct that statement later, but it is less than 1 per cent. [Total area of Arizona Territoiy is 72,268,800 acres, of which there was irrigated in 1899 an area of 185,396 acres or 0.25 per cent.] The Chairman. It is less than in New Mexico, is it? Mr. Newell. It is somewhat less than in New Mexico. Senator Heitfeld. Have the lands all been surve3xd in those Territories? Mr. Neavell. It has not all been surveyed and subdivided. The maps show the extent to which subdivision has progressed. Senator Heitfeld. How do you get all your detailed information if there have been no surveys made? Have parties been sent out there to investigate and segregate the lands, and to ascertain these things? Mr. Newell. Lands can not pass out of the ownership of the Gov- ernment unless they have been surveyed. This represents lands actu- alh' disposed of. surveyed and unsurveyed lands. Senator Heitfeld. You speak of the area disposed of, and that area has been surve^'ed? Mr. Newell. Yes, sir: other unsurveyed areas have ))een examined in a general way bj^ parties sent out to study the possible supply of water. Senator Patterson. What is the percentage of irrigable lands in Wj^oming? NEW STATEHOOD BILL. l79 Mr. Newell. That depends on the extent to which water storage is susceptible of application in the future. Senator Patterson. 1 mean without water storage. Mr. Newell. Without water storage it would be probably from 2 to 3 per cent of the area of the State. Senator Patterson. Of Wyoming? Mr. Newell. Of Wyoming. The total area is 62,448,000 acres, of which, in 1895>, there were irrigated 005,878 acres, or nearly 1 per cent. Senator Patterson. What is the percentage of irrigable lands in Colorado i Mr. Newell. Two and one-half per cent has l)een irrigated, and probably that can be increased to 4, or possibly 5. per cent with water storage. [Total area of State is 66,332,800 acres, of which there was irrigated in 1899 an area of 1,611,271 acres, or 2.43 per cent.] Senator Patterson. There is a great deal of water storage there now, is there not? Mr. Newell. There is a good deal on the headwaters of South Platte River near Greeley. water storage in COLORADO. Senator Patterson. And a great deal in other places, too? Mr. Newell. Also on the Arkansas River there is some. Senator Patterson. There is water storage on the Rio Grande, is there not? Mr. Newell. Very little. I do not know of any existing there. Senator Patterson. You know of no system of water storage there? Mr. Newell. I do not know of any. Senator Patterson. Have you been there lately ? Mr. Newell. Yes, sir. Some system is contemplated on the head- waters, but I do not think any has been actually constructed. Se^nator Patterson. What'is the percentage of land that is irrigated in Wyoming now? Mr. Neavell. I think it is less than 1 per cent. Senator Patterson. Is it not less than one-half of 1 per cent? Mr. Newell. 1 do not think so, because there are large areas of land which are wet for forage and pasturage, which may be called irrigated, and yet which are not cultivated. These tigures are given exactly in the report of the census. I am simpl}^ speaking now from memory. I have not looked at those tigures for some months. Senator Patterson. There are only a little over a million acres irrigated in Colorado now\ Mr. Newell. I think 1,800,000— something over a million and a half. It is a little more than in California, Ixit it includes lands which are used for pasturage and not cultivated. Senator Patterson. The Rio Grande runs pretty nearly through the center of New Mexico from north to south, does it not? Mr. Newell. Yes, sir. THE RIO GRANDE. Senator Patterson (referring to map). Branching out from what I will call the main artery of the river bed, I see innumerable little hair lines, some thin and some thicker. What do those lines indicate? Mr. Newell. Those lines indicate drainage lines which carry water during the stormy seasons. Some of them are perennial near their sources, but do not reach the main river except in times of flood. 180 NEW STATEHOOD HILL. The CiTAiR^rAX. Pardon me. Senator. 1 wish to ask one question: Do I undei'sta'nd you to say that except in times of flood those chan- nels are dry ^ jMr. Newell. Yes, sir; they are usually dry. Senator Pattkhsox. Do I understand you to say that there is no water in the Kio Grande during the summer months through its entire extent from north to south l Mr. Newell. There is usually water throughout the year down to the White Rock Canyon above Albuquerque, but helow that, where the Santa Fe road approaches the river, it is entirely dry in summer. Senator Patterson. Albuquerque is how far south of the northern boundary '. Mr. Newell. It is nearly midway of the distance of the Territoi-y. Senator Patterson. And the Territory is about how long from north to souths Mr. Newell. I have forgotten the figures. Senator Patterson. About 'IbO or 300 miles? Mr. Newell. It is nearer 400, I should judge. Senator Patterson. But down as far as Albuquerque there is usually water in the Rio Grande perennially, is there not? Mr. Newell. I have frequenth' seen it dry during August and September, Senator Patterson. I suppose those things are possible, )>ut not at all the usual condition. Mr. Newell. Well, it j^robably happens one year out of three. Senator Patterson. And for what length of time ? Mr. Newei>l. For from sixty to ninety days, or possibl}" even for six months. I think it has been dry. Senator Patterson. That is in the neighborhood of Albu([uerque? Mr. Newell. In the neighborhood of Albuquerque, yes. Senator Patterson. But the quantity of water increases as you approach the northern boundary of the Tiu'i'itory? CROPS WITHOUT IRRIGATION. Mr. Newell. Yes. Senator Patterson. May not cropo be raised without irrigation in New Mexico, say at an elevation of 7,000 feet? Mr. Newell. Frequently you can raise crops, especialiv cereals cut green for forage. Senator Nelson. That is cutting it green and using it for hay? Mr. Newell. Yes. Senator Patterson. There are frequent rains, are there not, on the highlands, say in the early spring? Mr. Newell. Yes. Senator Patterson. And also in July or August? Mr. Newell. There are occasional rains in March and April. Then there is a season of summer rains frequent! v. Senator Patterson. Are there not frequent rains, though, which are not of long duration ? Mr. Newell. Not freqiunit in the sense that we have them in the East. There are, perhaps, one or two rains a month. Senator Patterson. Have you not a season there in which showers are lial)le to occur three and four times a week, covering a period of about six weeks, up on the highlands or table-lands? NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 181 SHOWERS IN NEW MEXICO. Mr. Newell. 1 have not seen it as frequent as that. In March and April 1 have seen showers which occur perhaps once a week, in the afternoon, on the mountains: Init I have no recollection of more fre- quent showers. Senator PATrERSON, Is there any particular difi'erence in the condi- tions between, say, New Mexico and the central part of Colorado? Mr. Newell. New Mexico, as a whole, has a lower latitude and lower altitude, and so it is decidedly warmer, and has decidedh^ less rainfall on the mountains. Senator Nelson. And is more arid as a whole? Mr. Newell. Yes; there is far less timber than there is in Colorado. Senater Patierson. I have reference now to lands, say, at an eleva- tion of from 5,500 to 8,000 feet. Is there any particular difference between the rainfalls in New Mexico and in Colorado on the moun- tains, or in the sections of countiy of those elevations? Mr. Newell. There is little land at that high elevation excepting at the headwaters of the Pecos River and the table-lands of the central and northern part of the Territory. The altitude as a whole is consid- erably less than that. Only about one-third of the territorv is above 6,000 feet, while over one-half of Colorado is over 6,000 feet. Senator Patterson. What is the altitude of Sante Fe? Mr. Newell. 1 think it is about T.OiiO feet. I do not recall it. Senator Patterson. From what streams are the lands about Santa Fe irrigated ? Mr. New^ell. They are irrigated from the Santa Fe Creek mainh% which rises in the mountains directly above the town. Senator Patterson. The Santa Fe Creek is tributaiy to what stream? Mr. Newell. It flows into the Rio Grande near the mouth of the White Rock Canyon. THE SANTA FE CREEK. Senator Patterson. Santa Fe Creek is one of the tributaries to the Rio Grande that carries water for irrigation ? Mr. Newell. It does during the spring months, but whenever I have seen the creek during the summer it has been dry. There is water storage al)ove the city of Santa Fe for the waterworks and the local supply of the town. Senator Patterson. There is considerable cultivation of lands in a small waj" around Santa Fe, is there not? Mr. Newell. There are orchards and small gardens cultivated by the Mexicans. Senator Patterson. Are they irrigated from the Santa Fe Creek? Mr. Newell. From the Santa Fe Creek, and from the storage basin on the creek. Senator Patterson. Up on the northeastern part of the Territoiy I see a vast number of what seem to l)e land entries, and these also seem to be on the little tributaries to the larger streams. Are those taken up for agricultural purposes mostly ? streams dry. Mr. Newell. Those are mostl}" taken up b\^ cattlemen. I think sections 16 and 36 have been selected by the Territory or taken by cattlemen. In particular, the entries near Cimarron and Red rivers 182 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. show the land fenced in by cattlemen in that part of the country. 1 was there a few weeks ag-o, and all the streams that I saw were dr^'. Senator Patterson. The streams were all dry in Colorado this year? Mr. Newell. Yes. Senator Patterson. We thought we were going- to hav e a water famine in Denver, you know. Mr, Newell. Yes. Senator Patterson. What is the length of what is denominated as the Pecos Valley ? Mr. Newell. It extends practicall}^ from Las Vegas on the north through its full length of the Territory, Senator Patterson, How many miles ^ Put it in miles. Mr. Newell. 1 should say 25U to HOO miles. Senator Nelson. Where does the Pecos empty i Mr. Newell, It empties into the Kio Grande, crossing the western prolongation of Texas, The Chairman. It empties into the Rio Grande in Texas? Mr. Newell. In Texas: yes. Senator Patterson. That has the reputation of being one of the richest valleys in the West? cattlemen's paradise. Mr. Newell, Y"es; it has been the great cattlemen's paradise; but it is now being utilized to a certain extent for the production of fruit around Roswell and Carlsbad. Senator Patterson, And also for crops? Mr, Newell, The general crops are mainh* for forage. Alfalfa is the principal crop. The Chairman, That is for fodder? Mr, Newell, Yes, Senator Patterson. Are there not often good crops of forage? ^ Mr. Newell. Y"es; especially of alfalfa, one of the best crops raised there for feeding cattle. Senator Patterson. AVith the construction of storage reservoirs you can hardly tell the extent, can you, to which the Territory can be irrigated? Mr, Newell, It is impossible at present to tell. The storage will doubtless increase the irrigated area. Senator Patterson. Tremendous volumes of water come down those rivers during certain seasons of the year, do they not^ large volumes of water. Mr. Newell. The}" are ver}- large. Senator Patterson. If the waters could ])e conserved a ver}- heavy percentage of land could be put under irrigation, could it not? Mr, Newell. We have been measuring the amount of water, and if it could all be saved several hundred thousand acres could be irrigated. Senator Patterson. Is that the limit — several hundred thousand? Mr, Newell, I think so. The limit is the total amount of water which comes down the Rio Grande and Pecos, The measurements at various points on the Rio Grande give the actual amount of water which has passed that point during various years in succession. Those figures I can insert in the testimony if j^ou wish. I do not recall them. The ('hairmax. Certainly. Please do so. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 183 The %ures referred to are as follows : Total yearhj mn-o{f, in acre-feet, of the Rio Grande at Embudo, N. Me.v., and at the station hunnn as Rio Grande, above the White Rock Canyon. Year. 1889 . 1890. 1891. 1892. 1893 . 1894. 1895. 1896 . 1897. 1898 . 1899 , 1900, 1901 , Mean At Embudo. At Rio Grande. a Acrr-fect. 747, 070 Acre-feet. 1 064 377 1 348 217 899, 730 608, 996 (b) 885, 279 467,960 1,107,818 838, 166 375, 138 537, 381 572,153 (■698,072 1,896,518 1, 086, 933 682, 344 707,472 856,554 987, 982 "Below month of Chamu River. & Record of 1894 is incomplete. fjanuiiry and February flow is estimated. Senator Patterson. I wish to suggest, Mr. Chairnuui, if it l)e con- sidered of value l\v the committee in the discussion of these bills, that the Delegates from the Territories should be permitted to interrogate the witness. Those of us who do not live there are not familiar with the salient points of the subject, so far as irrigation is concerned, and we can not bring out that which I think should be brought out. The Chairman. I do not know what the feeling of the committee is about that. That would be an unusual procedure. I think the Sena- tor has drawn out all that a skillful lawyer or a man familiar with the conditions could draw out. I think the committee is competent to ask such questions as may be necessary. Senator Patterson. Well, I simply submit that. I move, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. Rodey and Mr. Mark Smith be invited to interro- gate this witness upon these subjects after the testimony of the wit- ness is extended. Senator Nelson. I think it is an unusual procedure to allow other parties to come and interrogate a witness before a committee. Senator Heitfeld. Suppose the Delegates be permitted to be present to suggest questions to the Senators. Senator Patterson. I will modify the motion, Mr. Chairman. I move that we be permitted to cross-examine the witness further, and that to enable us to do so we be permitted to invite the Delegates from the two Territories to be present that we may receive from them such suggestions as will be pertinent. The Chairman. Of course, Senator Patterson, it is your right to cross-examine the witness further to any extent you like without a motion. As to inviting the Delegates to be present, as Senator Nel- son has suggested, that is an unusual proceeding, and I think one that is entirely unnecessary. As far as the Senate is concerned, it is per- haps unprecedented. ' I do not think that should be done.. The right to cross-examine the witness to any extent you desire is yours. Senator Patterson. I am groping around in these dark areas. [Laughter.] The Chairman. These are scientific facts. Senator Patterson. Yes: but sometimes scientific facts are not facts. 184 nj:w statehood hill. Senator Nklsox. I wanted to call attention to another fact, and that is Senator Patterson. Pardon nie for a moment. A\ hat 1 mean is that if we want to ,i>-et an intellig'ent knowledge of the sul)ject-matter, such a cross-examination as I suogest may develop many things that would change and modify, not the testimony of the witness. ))ut the conclusions that would be drawn from all the testimony combined. Senator Melson. What I wanted to say in connection with that was this, Senator Patterson. You are aware"of the fact that we have been exceedingly limited as to time by reason of the arrangement that was made las't "^session. This bill is to be taken up next Wednesday, and the report of the committee ought to be made by that time. The tes- timony ought to ])e printed, ancl if we delay much further, we can not get it printed and ready before the Senate takes up the matter. Senator Patterson. I will not press the matter. Senator Nelson. I have heard a great many Senators express the desire that the testimony be printed, and the report of the committee made, by next Wednesday. results of rainfall. The Chairman. Mr. Newell, concerning the rainfalls on the plains, what becomes of those rainfalls on the plains^ Mr. Ne-well. a considerable portion of the rain sinks into the ground; another part evaporates, and another small amount runs away, forming streams if there are channels through which it can readily escape. The Chairman. Is it not a fact that within an hour after these rains fall on the plains the plains are as dry and dusty as before^ Mr. Newell. Frequenth'; quite dry. The Chairman. Senator 'Patterson asked you concerning fodder raised without irrigation, to which you responded that that was somewhat true. I want to ask you if that is not true along the streams only. Mr. Newell. As 1 understood the question it was as to whether the fodder raised without irrigation was not valua})le. It is extremely valuable. The Chairman. But where it is raised without irrigation it is along streams ? where fodder is raised. Mr. Newell. Usually it is along lands which are subirrigated or wet b}' natural sources. The Chairman. You were interrogated about the Santa Fe Creek as to its being a tributary to tlie Kio Grande River and carrying water i^erennially. The committee inspected that creek or river at Santa Fe. We found when we got there that a thin streamlet of water, perhaps 2i feet in width, and of scarcely appreciable depth, was all there was of it. Could there be any irrigation from that ( Mr. Newell. The water you saw was probably the return seepage from the irrigation above. "That in turn is turned into small ditches below, which catch every drop which comes down. The Chairman. You spoke about Pecos Valley extending from Las Vegas to the southern part of the Territory. What is the fact as to the valley near Las Vegas being practically dry and arid and without I \ NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 185 veiy much liabitation? What is the fact as to the water at that point being' scarcely appreciable;! Mr. Newell. The water at that point is ver}- scanty. It is used largely in the ditches above Las Vegas. There is usually ver}- little water in the channel. Below there the springs come in and reenforce the flow. The Chairman. So that apart from the scarcity of water in the streams about which we have spoken, how far away from the streams, if there was enoug-h w^ater, could irrigation ])e carried on l)v canals? Mr. New^ell. It depends wholly upon the topography of the country. As a rule the irrigation ditches rarely depart more than a few miles from the stream. There are cases in Kansas where they can go off at I'ight angles to the stream. RESULTS OF FLOODS. The Chairman. The committee, in taking testimony concerning the dams above Carlsbad, w^here 12,500 acres were under irrigation, were told by the president of the irrigation company that the dams were sometimes impaired and destroyed by sudden floods of water. What about that^ Mr. Newell. The dams have gone out once through sudden flood, because they did not have sufficient spillway. Since then thespillwa}^ has been greatly enlarged, and the dams are practically safe. The Chairman. Speaking of Colorado, are not considerable areas of land there cultivated and subject to grazing, without irrigation, b}^ the natural process of rainfalls Mr. New^ell. On the lands, particularl}" on the divide between Denver and Pueblo, there are considerable areas where dry farming of cereals is carried on, and then there are considerable areas which are grazed, but not cultivated, and where the grazing is of excellent quality. COLORADO RAINFALL SUFFICIENT FOR GRAZING. The Chairman. The rainfall is sufficient without irrigation? Mr. New^ell. Sufficient for grazing, and even to cut a little hay. The Chairman. Going out from Denver to the east on any line of railroad, that \'ast tract of territory there appears to a casual observer to be a fine grazing country, without irrigation, simply Avith the natural rainfall. Is that true i Mr. Newell, That is true. Senator Patterson. That is all arid east of the mountains, except where it is irrigated from streams? Mr. Newell. Yes. The Chairman. In respect to Arizona, I understand you to say that the grazing lands there must be near a water hole or water course ? Mr. Newell. Thej^ must be within a day's journey. Senator Heitfeld. Would not that be the same condition with respect to Colorado and other States ? Mr. Newell. Yes; general grazing on the plains is impracticable unless they have a great man}' wells. The hour of 12 o'clock having arrived, the committee adjourned. ^■1 32" ^^i<^ S -DOC-J4 . 57 2 yi OHNiA LIBI^iki^^ S Doc, J.,00(>. Q. Are there are other statements 30U would like to make?— A. I believe that is all. Q. What al)out the court-house? — A. We are on a cash basis; I say it is paid for. MONEY TO PAY THE DEBT. Q. What do you mean by that? — A. We have money enough in the treasury at this time to pay off all the indebtedness of the county and give us a handsome balance; but this court-house was ])uilt for $40,000, and the jail added to it, and the furnishings cost about $50,000, and when the installments come up there is always money left to pay it and leave the $30,000 surplus. Q. And that does not need to be impaired for the payment of your bonds? — A. It is a sacred fund; that can not be touched. And further the witness saith not. (Mr. David P. Mennon suggested to members of the committee, in private conversation, that the lands set apart to the Territory of Oklahoma in the pending statehood bills or in the organic act for the public institutions of the Territory at $20 per acre would amount to $7,000,000, and would be amply sufficient for every purpose, and that there should be in the act foi' the admission of the Territory as a State a clause that these lands should not be sold for less than $20 per acre, because they were absolutely worth twice that amount.) Further hearing was here adjourned. Lee Hotel, Oklahoma City, Okla., Monday Morning^ Novemher ^4, 1^^^ — ^^ ''^- ^'^• The committee resumed hearing of statements and testimony with respect to the admission of Oklahoma and Indian Territories to state- hood at the above-named place and date. Anton H. Classen voluntarily appeared before the committee and, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q, You maj" state to the committee your name, age, residence, and what your business is. — A. My name is Anton H. Classen. My busi- ness is at this time street railway and in the realty business — building a street-railway line here. Q. How long have you been in the Territory? — A. Since April 22, 1899. Q. What is your familiarity with the people and industries of the Territory? — A. Well, it is medium; fair. population. Q. Now, sir, if you have any statement to make to this committee that will give the committee any enlightenment on any phase of the NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 191 .subject before it we will be glad to hear you. — A. Well, in regard to thi.s question of .statehood, we have a population for Oklahoma of about 500,000 people; we have about an equal number in the Indian Ter- ritory; and the way the two Territories are located, the western half of it — Oklahoma Territory proper — is mainly agricultural; and the Indian Territory, it has a great deal of mineral wealth, such as coal and iron, and marble, and minerals of that kind; and I feel that the two Territories would make one great State. DO NOT NEED STATEHOOD. Q.- Well, have 3'ou any views on statehood or the admission of States at the present time^ — A. My view would be this, personally: That I am satisfied with the Territory, and we do not need statehood at this time, and my reason for that is this, that we have at the pres- ent time a 4 per cent limit; we can not vote bonds at any time for more than 4 per cent; and if we have some time, until we become settled, we can go into statehood without any indebtedness, or ver}' little indebtedness. Everything is in good condition; we are doing well; I think we are as prosperous as any part of the Union, and I could not ask on that account to have it changed. Q. Your idea on that point seems to be this: That if you can go on as you are, as prosperous as you are, that when 3^ou do become a State you will have all that you desire, without any indebtedness? — A. Yes, sir; that is the idea. At this time there are a great many railroads building, and the chances are that we would vote railroad bonds. The different towns are ambitious to get all the railroads that thev can, and they would simply bid against one another to vote the bonds, and I think that at this time it would be better if we did not get statehood until these railroads are built. Q. In other words, you think the railroads will be built without the bonds? — A. Yes, sir, 1 do; that has been done heretofore; what little we have raised for them we have raised by donation. Q. What do \"ou think is the view of the people upon that ques- tion ? — A. I think that outside of the politicians there is very little stir here upon that question. I am satisfied that the majority of our busi- ness men here, our wholesalers and these people, are contented. In this county they have paid verj^ little attention to it. They are bus}" and contented, and the farmers are in the same condition. APPOINTEES GOOD MEN, Q. Do you think of any further statement which you care to make? — ^A. Nothing else; only I w^ould .say this, as to the political side of it, I would just add this: I would .say that our appointees are good men, and they are doing well. In other words, the appointees that we have here, almost without exception — I am acquainted with all of them in the Territory, and I do not know of an}" of them at this time, of any of the Federal appointees here — that they are men that we could not improve ujDon by electing them. I think they are excellent, and as a Republican I am satisfied with the Administration. There is hardly an exception; I do not know of a man. And further the witness saith not. 192 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. William M. Newell voluntarily appeared before the committee, and, first having' been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator Dillingham: Q. You may state your name to the committee.— A. William M. Newell. Q. And your age and place of residence^ — A. Fort \' years of age; Norman, Okla. Q. How far is that from this city '. — A. Seventeen miles. Q. If you have any statement which you desire to make on this ques- tion of statehood — any opinion, or your reasons for that opinion — if you will state them briefly and concisely, we will ])e glad to hear you. — A. Well, on what point more particularly^ FOR >>-IXGLE statehood. Q. Well, we understand you wanted to be heard. — A. So far as our people arc concerned in the southern part of the Territory, we, of course, want statehood as soon as we can get it, but we want that statehood with the Indian Territory. We recognize the fact that Okla- homa Territory in itself, by itself, is too small to be a State. It would be a burden to the people on account of taxation. We feel, further, that the two Territories together would make one good average West- ern State. And the proximity, the physical relations of the two Ter- ritories are such that they ought to be brought in together as one State. They lie in such proximity that we can readily be brought in; that is, the intelligence, Imsiness, etc.; and the main thing is the expense to the people in supporting a State government with the small territory which we now have. By the Chairman: Q. Your idea is that if the two are joined in one State the expense of the State government would l)e practically halved? — A. Yes, sir. They are neither one of them able to support State government alone. The' Indian Territory is like Oklahoma Territory — we are poor yet. The taxable property is entirely insufficient, except at a veiy high rate of taxation, to support a State government. assessed valuation. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. What is the assessed Aalue of all your pro})erty ^— A. Well, it is in the neighl)orhood — I can not give you that real accurately, but in the neigh i3orhood of ^T(i,(M)0,< )<»(). It may be a little above that since we have taken in the additional territory out here. Our popidation, with the additional territory in the west that was taken in this fall a year ago, will l)e about (JOO^OdO. or in the neighborhood of that. views of the teople. By Senator DiLLiNanA:M: Q. How far are the opinions which you have expressed on this sub- ject the opinions of the people in your section of the Territory^ — A. 1 believe that I am safe in saying that nine-tenths of our people — I mean b}" that not the Avomen and children, but the business men of NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 193 tho count_y and 1113' part of the Territory — are in coii.sonance with the view.s that I have expressed. There are a few who want statehood with the Indian Territory ultimately attached. There is some feel- ing- — there has been some feeling engendered as the result of discuss- ing that question, and they do not want to ])e made a tail to the kite and come in piecemeal, and they want to come in on an eijuality with us and begin \'()ting with us. And I believe that that will create and engender a feeling that will continue a long time if they are brought in that ^vay, brought in piecemeal. Q. That suggestion of yours seems to be based on the idea that some time the Indian Territory will ])e made a part of Oklahoma? — A. I say, that some of tiiem favor that. Q. Well, your idea seems to be that there is no idea in this question of separate statehood, but of ultimate single statehood? — A, Yes, sir; I think that is right. There is no feeling of that kind at all. You can not find any such feeling as that in the southern part of the Territor3\ And further the witness saith not. D. H. Wilson voluntarily appeared before the committee, and, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: B}^ Senator Dillinc^ham: Q. You may state your name and age to the committee. — A. My name is D. H, Wilson, and I am 35 3'ears old. Q. And your residence is what? — A. At Vinita. Q. What distance is that town from Guthrie? — A. Well, that is 183 miles from here, and 30 miles from here to Guthrie; it would be 213 miles. Q. And you are in what county ? — A. It is in the Cherokee Nation. SIZE OF VINITA. Q. How large a town is Vinita? — A. Why, it has from 2,500 to 3,000 people. The census gave us 2,720, I think. Q. If you have any opinion on the question of statehood and the con- ditions under which statehood should be granted, as representing your people we would l)e glad to have you state them as concisely as pos- sible. — A. I am not here as a delegate; really, I was out here on pro- fessional business, and I heard of this meeting and drifted into it. Q. What is your profession? — A. lam a lawyer by profession. I would say that the concensus of o])inion as shown, in my judgment, is in favor of single statehood. MEANING OF "'SINGLE STATEHOOD." Q. What do you mean by single statehood? — A. With both; wnth the two Territories; that the two Territories should be one State; and I believe that the business interests of the country and the intelligent opinion that prevails generally is in favor of single statehood. Of course, I would sav that the full-blood element of the Indians, as a rule, are against it. They are a very sluggish, noncommittal class of people, and it is very difficult to get anything out of them, even to get them to enroll as citizens of the nation; and other interests, which are more or less mercenary, may be more or less against it, as they see H s B 13 1V)-1 NKW STATEHOOD KILL. their intere.sts iiiight be attectcd by it; l)ut I believe that the intellig'ent people at large, and the thouohtful people, those that are interested in the business interests of the Territory and are looking forward to what should be the future existence of the people and the future con- dition of the people are for single statehood. Q. How o-enerally do they desire statehood, or their own Territorial form of government^ — A. Well. I will say this: That I think that the people are hardly in condition for statehood yet. CONDITIONS IN INDIAN TERRITORY. Q. Do you mean that as to the Indian Territory, or as to both of the Territories^ — A. Well, I speak more particularly of the Indian Territory. That is on account of the conditions there, and if those conditions could be overcome, as a matter of fact of getting- a settle- ment of their affairs as Indians settled up, and their allotments of lands perfected into good titles, and so on, I think there is the chief condition which relates to statehood. Bv the Chairman: Q. Will 3^ou explain to the committee wherein the proceedings as to the allotment of the lands to the Indians would interfere with state- hood, if it would at all; in what respect would the going on of that allotment interfere with statehood^ — A. Well, the machinery of a State is difierent to some extent to what it is in a Territory, although the Territory is a Territory under the United States; that is, its own government woidd be in very good condition to run the affairs of it, I should sa}", perhaps about as well as a State; but, of course, until the titles are perfected we would not be in good condition to tax the Indians and tax these lands; and I do not know, other than that, of an\' particular reason. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. AVhat are the conditions under which they have taken these allot- ments? Where do they get these titles? — A. Under the treaty it will be live j^ears from the time the patents are issued — 1 mean from the time the certificate of patent is granted. I believe that the language is that the certificate shall be granted, and in five years they shall be given absolute patents, designating one-half of the lands as a home- stead, and one-half as land that they may dispose of a^fter five years. The allotment is equal to what — is equal to 11<.» acres to each Indian of average land. INDIAN lands. Q. And do these Indians now own the land all in severalty? — A. No, sir; not yet. Some of the Indians are in penitentiaries; some are incompetents; a great many are of these classes, and as to these classes, either from the fact that it is impossil)le to get in their allot- ments and get on them or from the fact that they have not the intel- ligence to do so, they have allowed matters to remain as they are. A great many are full f)loods. and these full l)loods stay back in the hills, a great many of theuL Some of the more int(dligent ones among them are getting ithe full ])loods to take their allotnuMits, sometimes on this nicer or better land; and a great many of the full bloods are staying back in the hills and take their allotments. i)art of them, ])ack there; NEW rtTAT?:H<)OD HILL. 195 and the more intellig'ent tVllows are takiiiji" their aUotinents in the bet- ter hinds, with a view to t)uyino- it at tlie end of the Hv(! years. POPULATION OF INDIAN TERRITORY. Q. What is the population of the Indian Territory ^ — A. It is about 400,0(Hi, 1 think. J'KOPOHTION OF WHITES AND INDIANS. Q, What is the pro})ortion of whites as against the Indians, half- hU)ods, and those that have part Indian blood; — A. A\'ell, 1 see in the papers that it is al)out three to one. Q. Do they secure some of the lands in the Territory ^— A. Oh, no. I would sa}',^ Avith respect to that answer that I made awhile ago, I am not certain wdietber the reference to when the Indians — the one with reference to the Indians would include the intermarried or adopted or not. but I do not think it does. The whites who are not intermar- ried or adopted have no legal rights to the land in the Territory. Q. There are a great many of those in there that have no rights, are there not^ — A. Well, they have rights as lessees. Under the Curtis bill the}' can lease the lands. Q. Business men can go in there and engage in business in towns and cities? — A. Yes, sir. By the Chairman: Q. W' e passed through a good many towns like South McAlester, Muscogee, and Vinita. Where do the people who built those line busi- ness buildings in those towns there get the title to the lands? Are they leased? — A. I can explain that; it is somewhat confused, I would say. TOWN-SITE COMMISSIONERS. The Indians, under their constitution — in the formation and adop- tion of their co!istitution — prohibited the council of the Indian Nation, the Cherokee Nation, from ever selling or dispo.^ing of any of that land for any purpose whatever; and in the face of that constitutional pro- vision the C'herokee council passed a law creating what was known as a town-site commissioner, and providing that the town-site commis- sioner might allot certain lands under a law that was then passed. I am not certain whether that law designated certain lands for towns or not, but I think that related to the railroad land; but the town-site conunissioner might lay the lands out into town lots, and they were to sell it to the highest bidder, and the Indians l>ought them. No one else had a right to buy then), and they remained in that condition for a good nrany years. Some of the towns were laid out twent}' years ago, and l)efore the recent laws, providing how the whites might come in thei'eand might legitimately hold titles, the white men would come in there and do business in an Indian's name. They would also bu}^ lands in an Indian's name, and they would hold them that way. But that was very unsatisfactory and impractical and caused a great deal of perjury and chicanery. And the Curtis bill was passed, and that was the lirst positive law by which a white man might hold lauds in these towns. 196 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. Thon after the passage of the Curtis bill were these titles which mioht be called surreptitious converted into legal titles under that law^ — A. A great man}' of them. HOW TITLES ARE HELD. Q. How are the titles to the lots in an}- of these to^yns through which we passed yesterday, for instance, where these big buildings are, how are those titles held? Are they held under the Curtis bill %— A. Yes. sir; or under the more recent law. We lawyers think that no white man may procure title under the Curtis Inll. When the white ujen got in there and made these towns, and pushed the country along, it looked like a one-sided aftairthat they might not own it, own any inter- ests there, and be protected in them. And that Curtis bill provided that the town lots might be sold, and sold to the highest bidder, all that were vacant, and those that were not vacant might be sold at one- half their appraised value. It says that the owner may do so and so; and it further provided that anyone having made improvements upon it, that anyone in possession, having improvements on it — and that was construed to mean u white man as well as an Indian— and in that way the white man would get the Indian to indorse over to him by a bill of sale; that was the way he held his title. Q. And that is the way those titles were held?— A. Yes, sir. Q. Are the railroad grants in the same way?— A. No, sir. Q. It seemed from a cursory examination by the couimittee that there was a very heavy tide of white immigration coming in there. Is that true ?— A. 'it is not true now more than it has been for years. Q. That is the way you explain these big towns?— A. Yes, sir. TIDE OF IMMIGRATION. Q. Is that tide of immigration keeping up?— A. Yes, sir; but not to an alarming extent at all. Throughout the country there are whites that have been making those farms for years and years, and it is very difhcult for a man to rent a farm in the Cherokee Nation now. Q. Is the title to those claims procured in the same way ?— A. Under the recent law there is a law providing for a man to g^i^ title to the claims; they go on these same lands and under the permission of the Secretary of the Interior he may lease these lands. By Senator Dillingham: Q. Your Territory is pretty well occupied with railroads, is it not ?— A. Yes, sir; but there ought to be some more come in. By the Chairman: Q. Are there others contemplated?— A. Yes, sir; 1 hear of some. Q. Are there any surveyed?— A. Yes, sir; there was one surveyed in by Grove and Fairland the other day. Q". W^as the surveying actually done?— A. Yes, sir. Q. But the road is not under construction ? — A. No. sir. And further the witness saith not. Henry Marshall Ferman voluntarily appeared before the com- mittee, and, lirst having been duly sworn, testified as follows: - By Senator Burnham: Q. You may state your name to the committee.— A. My name is Henry Marshall Ferman. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 197 Q. Where do 3'^ou reside? — A. At Ardniore, Ind. T. Q. Are you one of the delegation from there? — A. Yes, sir; I am one of the delegation from Ardmore. 1 have been in the Territory for seven years, and I have l)een grand master of the Masons, and I am a lawyer by profession, and my acquaintance carries me all over the Territory, and I think I am as familiar there as any other citizen in the Territor}'. INDIAN TERRITORY PRODUCTS. Q. You may make your statement. — A. I want to say this: That we will be very glad indeed if you can visit our section of the Territory, which is the Egypt of the Territory. Over two millions of dollars has been paid out for cotton alone on the streets of Ardmore. We ship an immense amount of products, carloads of cattle and carloads of hogs. ARDMORE CENSUS OF 1 !♦()() AND 1902. In 1900 the census gave us over 5,000. This summer, in order to issue bonds for schools and waterworks, another census was required by the Congress. Our population was 8,687. We have increased over 3,i>00 in two years. We have the most thickly settled portion of the Indian Territory. The last census gave us 1-17,00(>. Since then our population has increased about 33 per cent. Q. How far is that from here? — A, Ardmore is 100 miles south of here. Our district judge, who served in Congress from Colorado, would like to come up and make a statement before you. Now, then, our people feel this way about it: We are without representation and without voice, except in the local self-government in the towns; we feel that in every quality of citizenship Ave are the equal of any portion of the United States. We most earnestly desire to have representa- tion in Congress. SINGLE STATEHOOD AS A MATTER OF BUSINESS. As a matter of business, we want single statehood. We do not want it by piecemeal. We feel that it would l)e a rank injustice to us to have our people absorbed in the future. The population is about equal in the two Territories. We have more good land than they have in Okla- homa; we have coal and timber and asphalt, and we feel that Oklahoma would be the beneticiary of the union. We feel that it would be the cause of trouble in the future to bring us in by piecemeal. On the question of schools, the mayor requested me to make this statement, that it is impossible to give us lands for the school fund as the other Territories have been given. IMMENSE COAL FIELDS. There are immense coal fields down there which ought to be sold. If it would be possible for Congress to purchase those coal fields and give them to us, we think that that is the only course that is open to us to raise a school fund. Our condition down there is pitiable beyond language to describe. In the towns we have schools; but the chil- dren that pick the cotton, and raise the cotton and the corn, they are without education. There is no asAdum down there; there is no 198 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. jilat'c for the orphiuis to be eared for. We have no insane asylum down there; we have the insane chained to stumps and in loo- (•a]>ins, so that our ofticers have to wink at criminal charg-es bi-ought against them, so that they can be sent to asykuns where they can be cared for. By Senator Burnham: Q. How general is the opinion which you have expressed? — A. Ninety per cent. In fact, the intelligent element of the Chickasaw Nation is united on that question. THE CHICKASAW NATION. By the Chairman: Q. What proportion of the people in the Indian Territory are white ? — A. 1 can only speak for the Chickasaw Nation: about 85 per cent. Q. That proportion white in the Chickasaw Nation? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What did you say the bonds in Ardmore were issued for? — A. Schools and waterworks. Q. So that you have pretty good municipal conditions ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. The same is true, I take it, of South McAlester, Vinita, and the other good towns? — A. Y"es, sir; l>ut we are operating under the Arkansas law of 1884, and there is no provision in that law to force people to put down sidewalks. Subsequent to 1884 Arkansas put in force a law that would force men to put down sidtnvalks, l)ut that law was not put in force in the Indian Territory. So that we have meii who put dow^n sidewalks now, and the next property to theirs there is a hog wallow in front of it. By Senator Burnham: Q. Y^ou speak of 85 per cent white. Does that include all of the Indian blood? — A. There is not more than 500 full-))lood Indians in the Chickasaw Nation, and the mixed blood count with the white people. By the Chairman: Q. Of that 85 per cent what proportion can read and write? — A. Well, those who are above scholastic age, I would say 75 per cent of them. The country people do the very l)est they can. They have little subscription schools for three or four months in the yenv. increase in immigration. Q. What about the increase of immig-ration there? — A. As I said, since the last census we have increased about 80 per cent. Q. Where does that come from? — A. All over the Union; we tind them there from everywhere. Q. What do these "people do that come in? — A. Principally, they are farmers. Now, since the Frisco road has run through, for instance Ada, Mill Creek, and Medea, those places have 8,000 or 4,000 people in them. We have some coal mines down there, but they are not worked much. Q. There is a proposition pending to give you a separate Territorial form of government; what do j^ou say about that, or the proposition to give j'^^ou single statehood?— A. If we can not get single statehood we want that. NEW stat?:h()<>u bill. 199 Q. Suppose you wove to extend the territorial limits ot Oklahoma around the Indian Territory^ — A. We do not feel that if the T(M-rito- rial o-overnment is continued that the representative from Oklahoma can properly represent us. We would like to have a representative that we could instruct, because we do not think Oklahoma understands our conditions. And further the witness saith not. A. L. Gates voluntarily appeared before the comaiittee and. first having ))een duly sworn, testified as follows: Bv the Chairman: Q. You may state to the committee your name, ag-e, and where you live. — A. Mv name is A. L. Gates; age. 4-1; I live at Glaremore, Ind. T. Q. How long have 3'ou been down there ^ — A. Nine years last June. Q. Where did you come from ^ — A. From New Jersey. Q. What is your business down there ^ — A. Newspaper publisher. Q. What is the name of 3'our paper f — A. The Progress. Q. What is its circulation^ — A. Eight hundred. Q. If you have any statement which you desire to make we will be pleased to hear you. — A. I would like to state for the people down there that they are very anxious for some form of government, espe- cially for some provision for schools. In canvassing for a statehood call I canvassed sixty-five l)usiness men, and 1 asked them if the}' were in favor of statehood with Oklahoma. Fifty -seven signed the call; there were three that would not sign, one was indifferent, five were opposed. IN FA^ OK OF SINGLE STATEHOOD. Gourt convened there last week and I interviewed the leading men, among them three bankers, a large merchant, and some of the leading men on the works, and they were all in favor of single statehood with Oklahoma, and wanted it done. The objection over there that is raised is on account of the indebtedness of Oklahoma. Among the intelli- gent class the sentiment is undoubtedlv overwhelmingly for single statehood. Q. What is the feeling of your people as to single statehood for the Indian Territory and Oklahoma, and a territorial form of government for yourself alone ^ — A. Our people, a large majority of them, are opposed to a territorial form of government. We are opposed to that. Q. What proportion of the people down there are white, or the American element? — A. Well, there is 35,000 citizens there, and I should judge about 50,000 noncitizens in the nation. That is in the Cherokee Nation. I think the roll of the Dawes Commission will show about 37,000 citizens. That will include the Cherokee himself, his adopted wife, the Delaware and the freedman. Q. What is the proportion of people like yourself that went down there from other places!' — A. 1 should judge in the Cherokee Nation it is about two to one. BUSINESS ELEMENT IMMIGRANTS FROM THE STATES. Q. Two to one of your class "i — A. Yes, sir. The business element, as a rule, are immigrants from the States to a large degree. 200 NEW STATEHOOD 15ILL. Q. You iiieaii they are peoplo who have come in tliere from other partti of the Union ?— A. Yes, sir. A great many of those are adopted, too. but they have come in there from othcn- parts of the Union. TAXABLE WEAETIl. Q. Do vou think of any other statement to make ^— A. We feel that in the matter of resources and ad\anc(Miient we are prepared to be a State; and on that question 1 will say that we shipped Qi.H) ciir- loads of corn from our town last year; we became a Presidential post-office six or seven years ag-o, and we have a town of 2,(>00 inhabit- tants; that our taxable wealth is about ;^;300,000 within the coi-porate limits of the town. We have a hotel there; we have every acconuno- dation that a country town can have. We have a hotel there that is three stories high, and is 05 by IBO; we have an opera house there that seats 1.000 people. Q. Have you electric lights ^-A. No, sir: we have not electric lights; we have an application now in for electric lights. And further the witness saith not. W. A. Ledbetter voluntarily appeared before the committee and, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You may state your name to the conmiittee. — A. W. A. I^ed- better is my name. Q. And how old are vou^— A. 1 am oi< years of age. Q. Where do you live ^— A. I live at Ardmore. T was appointed as a delegate on the committee to this committee on the part of a con- vention held at Ardmore not long since. Q. What was that convention"?— A. It was a convention composed of delegates from the difierent parts of the Chickasaw Nation looking to securing relief by legislation for the people there. Q. Any statement which you desire to make which is not cumula- tive, and* which properly comes before this Committee on Territories, we will be glad to hear.— A. I live in the Chickasaw Nation some twelve vears now\ 1 am a lawyer and I have had opportunities to get fairly well acquainted with the* conditions down there. Our res^ources are very great; our population is typical of the Southern and \yestern States— our Southern and Western population intermixed. We have, in point of agricultural advantages, one thing that is superior to almost anv other section of the country, in this: That we can raise the very best of wheat on the same farm' with the very best kind of cotton, and that distinguishes us from almost any other part of the United States. STATEHOOD WITH OKLAHOMA. Q. Did this convention from which you are a delegate have any ideas or take anv action with reference to the question of statehood with Oklahoma (—A. We had a very elaborate discussion of it. Every speaker announced himself, and represented the people that he came from, as decidedly in favor of union with Oklahoma in the event that it could be secured. The dominant idea, however, was that if we be- come a part of the State of Oklahoma that we wanted to come in on terms of absolute equality. The convention was a unit on that propo- NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 201 sition. As an alternative proposition, however, they favor something along the line of what is known as the Moon bill, which provides for a separate Territorial form of government; but they were opposed to that proposition if its tendenc}' was to make a separate State out of the Indian Territory. That is the opinion of 75 — if not of 90 — per cent of the business men of the Chickasaw Nation. Jt is a matter of verv gi;eat regret to us that this conunittee could not have seen the Chickasaw^ Nation. 'It is very highly develo})ed, and in the country the development is much greater than it is elsewhere in the Indian Territory. Q. What is the proportion of the w hite population ? — A. I believe that the white population in the Chickasaw Nation would be in the neighborhood of 15.5,000 or 160,000 people. Q. What is the total population^ — A. We have about, jointly, Indians, all parts of the tril)e — in other words, tliere are quite a num- ber of people in that tribe who have practically no Indian blood in them — 1 do not suppose there is 1,000. 155,000 WHITES IN CHICKASAW^ NATION. Q. How many whites like yourself ?— A. 150,000 or 155,000. Q. That is 150,000 accounted for. Now, outside of that, how many more people are there in the nation? — A. There are perhaps 20,000. By Senator Buknham: Q. What part of the area of the Indian Territory does the Chickasaw Nation include? — A. Well, I suppose about one-fourth of the entire Territory. And further the witness saith not. C. B. Ames appeared voluntarily before the committee, and first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. You ma}' state to the committee your name and age, and 3-our place of residence. — A. My name is C. B. Ames; age, 32; residence, Oklahoma City. FOR ONE state. Q. You may now proceed with such statement as you desire to make to the committee. — A. 1 wish to say that the sentiment of Okla- homa City is in favor of single statehood and that the sentiment of Oklahoma City is in favor of the admission of both of these Ter- ritories as one State together. The people of this town are opposed unalterably to the attachment process. They believe it is one which will make permanent sectional lines in the State for generations to come. Q. What do you say as to the proposition of separate statehood for Oklahoma and making the Indian Territory a Territory, looking to ultimate statehood for them ? — A. I think it would jeopardize both of the States; that if that was done we would have the locating of our public institutions to do over again when they came in, because the voting strength of the two Territories will be in the Indian Territory. We have been opened to settlement, our crops are all planted, and 202 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. our titles are oontirmetl. Tlu^re they have no title, until recently in the Creek Nation, they are there now all allotted; and in the Seminole Nation tiiey are all allotted. Q. What is 3'our business;! — A. I am a lawyer. THE WHOLESALE P.USINESS. Q. What is the proportion of the business of this city over in the Indian Territory ? — A. Our wholesale business amounts to $15,000,000 a 3'ear, about. The wholesale business of this city in the Indian Ter- ritory is prol)ably 20 per cent of the whole volume of business in the Indian Territory. The freio'htand passenger receipts of the railroads in this city amount to $3,000,000 a year, possibly a little more. Q. Do you say that 20 per cent of your business here is trade in the Indian Territory ^ — A. About that. That is simply an estimate. Q. Have you any further statement to make? — A. I would like to sav one other thing, and that is, that from our point of view we think the Indian Territory is now ready for statehood. You have g-ot a legal right to attach them. That was decided in the case of Thomas v. Gay, 169 United States, page 264. They certainly have a popula- tion to do so, and to bear their share in sustaining the government: and the}' certainly have the resources to sustain that population. Q. What about the illiteracy? — A. The last census shows that 76 per cent of their population are literates. PERCENTAGE OE LITERACY AND ILLITERACY. Q. So there is 24 per cent of illiteracy ? — A. Yes, sir. In Oklahoma the percentage of literacy is 97. Now, about the question of the tax- able property in the Indian Territory, the report of the committee on the main bill shows that they have about $60,000,000 of taxable prop- erty in the Territory. The lands have been allotted largely, and in three years they will l)e allotted; that is, throughout the reserve — full possession — only the homesteads of the Indians, which is about 25 per cent of the lands in the Territory. That is to say, that there will be 75 per cent of the lands subject to taxation. Now, 75 per cent of the land in Oklahoma — not more than that — will be subject to taxation, because of the fact that many of the lands are not patented yet; and then we have up here the Osage Indian Reservation. Q. What is your present appraised value of taxable property in Oklahoma!' — A, The present appraised value for taxation of the prop- erty in Oklahoma is $72,000,000. And further the witness saith not. W. H. Trudoeon voluntarily appeared before the committee and, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator Dillingham: Q. You mav state vour name to the committee. — A. Mv name is W. H. Trudgeon. Q. And vour age and place of residence. — A. Fortv-three; Purcell, Ind. T. ■ Q. And what is your business? — A. My busines.s is the grain ))usi- ness and the lumber business down there. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 203 SENTIMENT OF THE rEOPLE. Q. If you can do so, wo would ho o-lud to havo you state tho thought and t'oelin*>- of the people of your section of the Territory with refer- ence to the (luestion of statehood. — A. Well, Senator, I think they are pretty much agreed as to the proposition of one State for the two Ter- ritories. I speak more particularly of the business interests; and I think on that question that 90 per cent of my pai't of the Territory are in faN'or of one State made up of the two Territories. They are, prac- tically speaking, together now, and I do not see how you can separate them very well. Q. Where do you live; what districts — A. In the Chickasaw Nation. Q. What proportion of the population there is made up of people who came in from the outside, like vourself?— A. There is about 120,000. Q. And what is the entire population ^— A. About 125,000—135,000. Of course the population has increased rapidly in the last year. CONSOLIDATED INTERESTS. Q. Is there an3^thing further than that that you would like to stated — A. Nothing more than that the business interests, the social interests, and the moral interests of the (wo Territories are very closely combined. The Episcopal churches of the two Territories are together under one bishop; the Catholic churches of the two Territories are together under one bishop; the Epworth League of the two Territories are together. Q. How a))Out the Methodist Church!'— A. They are not together in the two T'erritories. The grain dealers are together in one solid, compact organization, Q. How about the cattle interests of the two Territories; are they together? — A. No, sir; they are apart. The rest are together, and they come together as one. By the Chairman: Q. You are the author of the liill for a Territorial government and giving a Delegate in Congress from the Indian Territory- '( — A. Yes, sir. Q. Your bill was for a Delegate?— A. Yes, sir; and I prepared a brief on that l)ill of the conditions under which we live, and that brief was handed to you. Q. That was after your bill was presented? — A. No, sir; that was handed to you Ijefore the ])ill was handed to you. And further the witness saith not. A. B. White voluntarily appeared before the committee and, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator Dillingham: Q. If you have an^^thing that is particularly pertinent to any of the subjects in hand of which you know, the committee will be glad to hear .you, otherwise we must ask you not to take the committee's time as we are in a hurry to leave. — A. I was unaware of the pres- ence of the committee in the city to-day until Colonel Ferman asked me to be present. 204 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. Where do you resided— A. At Sulphur, a))out tlie center of the Chickasaw Nation. Q. How Ion o- have you lived there ^ — A. About two years. I am the mayor of the town. UNANIMOUS FOR SINGLE STATEHOOD. Q. AMiat have you to sa}* in reoard to the ([ue.stion now before the committee with reference to statehood^ — A. The people of that com- munit}^ are very anxious for statehood, and the sentiment of the com- munity is practically unanimous for single statehood, provided they can get it on an equality with Oklahoma. Q. And for what reason do they want that? — A. Well, they think they are qualified for statehood, both in population and in taxable wealth, but our government machinery is very inadequate. We are governed only by the United States courts, and they are situated at long distances apart. Q. Would not a separate Territorial form of government answer your purposes? — A. No, sir; the sentiment is practically unanimous against that. W^e think it will put us off for a long time. Q. Do 3^ou think you are as well prepared for statehood as Okla- homa? — A. No, sir; because the lands are not divided and are not taxa))le. Q. What would l)e the advantages of a union of the Territories? — A. Well, we have no way to record deeds, for instance. People are now ac(|uiring titles to their lots in the towns, and there is only one office in the Chickasaw Nation where they can be recorded. That is at Ardmore. Then, the Chickasaw Nation is 100 miles square. SCHOOLS AND ROADS. We have no schools, except each to^vn supports its schools by direct taxation. We have no public roads. We have roads, but the people fence up the roads in every direction at will, and there is no powder by which they can be opened or worked. There has never been an^^ work done on the public roads, and none of these benefits that people derive from well-organized governments, from law^s w^ell administered — we have not these things. We deplore being put into the State of Oklahoma by piecemeal. By the Chairman: Q, What do you say as to statehood for Oklahoma now, and Terri- torial government for yourselves now, and finally to statehood for yourselves? — A. 1 would be satisfied with that individually, and 1 think the people would. Speaking for myself and speaking for the conmiunity, we would prefer single statehood inmiediately. We think it would engender a little sectional feeling between Oklahoma and ourselves if we were brought in afterwards, and that we were brought in under unfair conditions; that Oklahoma would be given a large advantage by being allowed to locate the public institutions of the State. And further the witness saith not. O. D. Halsell voluntarily appeared before the committee, and, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 205 B}' the Chaiuman: Q. You may state your name, your age, and what your husincs.s is. — A. O. D. Halsell: 47 years old; wholesale gi-ocer. Q. Located in Oklahoma City ^ — A. Yes. sir: and Guthrie, and Pauls Valley, Ind. T. Q. Is a good deal of youi' business in the Indian Territor}'? — A. About one-fourth or one-third. Q. What statements do you desire to make herei' — A. We do not want double statehood, from a business standpoint. Q. If 3'ou have a State at all 3'ou want a single State? — A. Y'es, sir; we want a single State. Q. What have you to say upon the main proposition of a State at all at the present time? — A. Well, if we are to have statehood at all at the present time we want single statehood. Q. Would you rather have no statehood at all than to have double statehood? — A. It raises our taxes, our freight rates, and brings a hardship on the business interests. SENTIMENT OF THE BUSINESS PEOPLE. Q. What do you say is the sentiment of the business people con- cerning statehood at all at the present time ? — A. Eighty per cent are in favoi- of single statehood. Seventy per cent would be in favor of leaving it as it is unless they could have single statehood. Q. AYill you give the committee, very bi'iefly, the reasons for that? — A. The reason is that business men ai-e looking out for the cost of run- ning the business, taxes, insurance, and everything of that kind. We figure that we can get cheaper monej" in here by being one large State. And another reason is our freight rates, as soon as we cross the State line or the Territorial line, are advanced, and it increases the cost of doing business. Q. Now, then, state your reasons for preferring that the thing remain as it is at present. 1 understood you to say you preferred single statehood if there is statehood at all, but you prefer a Territorial form of government? — A. We want single statehood if we have statehood at all, but if it is going to be two States we Avant it to remain as it is. Q. W^hich do you want? — A. I want single statehood. As between single statehood and i-emaining under Territorial form, we prefer single statehood. Here is a picture of the university that the Epworth League of Oklahoma and the Indian Territory is building. Q. Will you leave that as a part of your evidence? — A. Yes, sir; I will be glad to. A wholesalers'' association of the two territories. Q. Have you got a wholesalers' association of the two Territories together? — A. Y"es, sir; we are just tied up. Q. What is the number of business associations that are a union of the two? — A. Do you mean the amount of them? Q. Y^oii have named one. — A. Y^es, sir. Q. Now^ what others? — A. Well, dry goods. Q. Is that in Iwth? — A. No, sir; they have separate associations. The grocers have their associations. 206 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Q. Is there a dry o-oods asj^ociation in the two Territories, or does the Indian Territory have its association separate;! — A. They Avorlc together. Everything is just based I'ight on that as though it was just one Territory. And further the witness saith not. The picture identilied l)y the wdtness and left as a part of his testi- mony is ''Exhibit K." S. T. Alton voluntarily ap})eared l)efore the eonimittee and, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. State to the committee your name, age, and what 3'our business s. — A. My name is S. T. Alton; I am in the wholesale grocer}^ business. Q. Where are you in business^ — A. In Oklahoma Cit\'; I have been engaged in that 1)usiness here for the last three years. Q. What proportion of your lousiness is in Oklahoma and what pro- l)ortion in the Indian Territorv ^ — A. About 75 and 25 — about 25 per cent in the Indian Territor3\ Q. What statements do you desire to make to this committee con- cerning the question ))efore it i — A. From the point of view of a whole- sale business man^ SINGLE STATEHOOl) BETTER FOR BUSINESS. Q. On statehood, single or doubled — A. Yes, sir, or not at all. So far as our ))usiness is concerned, avc woidd rather not have statehood for awhile until the Indian Territory is ready to get in with us. We all believe it would be better for the business interests in this town for one State composed of the two Territories, and our reason for that would be, one of them at least, that all States have raihvay commis- sions, regulating rates, and so on, and as arbitrator between the people and the railroads; but as it is now we pay a great deal more on ship- ments after we cross the Territorial line than we do in our own Terri- tory. Then there would l)e centers built up there and markets, and there would ])e sectional feeling, and their ambitions and their irder- ests would l)e to build up their own town. DEVELOPMENT RAPID. Q. You seem to be getting along pretty well in Oklahoma City at the present. What about the development of this Territory? — A. Our business is very satisfactoiy. The dexelopment of the Territory is very, very rapid. It is going as fast as we can keep up with it. Q. What about the farmers:! — A. The farmers of Oklahoma are very prosperous. Q. What is the proportion of your bad delfts!' — A. Our losses this year will run about one-third of 1 percent of our sales. That is about what they will run in Illinois or Indiana. Q. The committee can not help but observe on the street here these innnense business houses. What is the volume of your business?— A. Yes, sir; we had a business of a million and a quarter here at this point; and we also have another house at Enid, Ind. T. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 207 GOOD CLASS OF TEOrLK. Q. So that tho l)usinoss iiumi here nvo very prosperous? — A. Yes, sir; we have a u'ood ehiss of peopU^ and merchants. Q. What is your hank rate hei'ei^ what are 3'our rates of interest? — A. We borrow money in New York in our own business. Q. Is New York willing- to loan 3'ou money out here, notwithstand- ing the fact that you are a Territory ? — A. Yes, sir; we borrow mone}^ at 4i per cent in New York, and we sold paper here during- the Hurry for tU. Q. What is your rate here ? — A. We can liorrow uioiiey here at 8 per cent, but we borrow it in New York. New York knows what business is. and they don't care whether we are a Territor}- or not. And further the witness saith not. C. G. Jones voluntarily appeared ])efore the committee, and Hrst having been duly sworn, testiiied. Bv Senator Dillingham: Q. Are you the mayor of this city t — A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, sir, will you state to this committee what the feeling of this city is in respect to statehood? — A. There is a unanimous feeling of the people here, I think, in favor of statehood. Q. lender what conditions? — A. Single statehood, including ,the Indian Territory. Q. What is the population of your city ? — A. Twenty-two thousand. Q. What is the assessed valuation of your property? — A. Close to four million. Q. And the rate of taxation ? — A. Two fourteen. Q. What proportion of the trade of the city is in the Indian Terri- tory ? — A. A great deal of it. As we have the wholesale grocers here, they have a great deal of trade in the Indian Territory. Q. You don't know what proportion? — A. No, sir; I do not know what proportion. INDUSTRIES of THE CITY. Q. The city is sustained by what industries mainW ? — A. Largely by the agricultural industries in the surrounding country. Q. Now, if there is anything you would like to say to the committee bearing on this question we would be glad to have you say so. — A. One of the objects in wanting single statehood is that the business of the two Territories is so intermingled together that it woidd be hard to separate it as I see it at this time. DESIRE INDIAN TERRITORY ADDED. Q. What is the feeling of the comuuunty about really desiring state- hood or remaining under the present conditions? — A. Well, the feel- ing of the people — 90 per cent of them, at least — would be in favor of statehood if we could get Indian Territory added. Q. But you would not want it alone? — A. There would 1)6 some that would prefer statehood as the boundary lines are now. Q. If they could not get that, would a majority of the people say as to remaining under present conditions? — A. They would prefer to 208 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. \vdVo it under present conditions rather than to liave statehood as Oklalionia })oundaiT lines are now, Q. II" there is anything further you woukl like to say. you nia}^ proceed. — A. I am now connected with railroad buildino- — building- a railroad nearly through the entire Indian and Oklahoma Territories — and for the railroad we would like to have a single State. Q. There is no difficulty in getting capital to come in here, is there?— A. No, sir; I have just signed and issued !|8,5O0,0O(i of bonds that were issued and h3'pothecated at 4 per cent. A COMMERCIAL CENTER. Q. Were these railroad })onds!! — A. Yes, sir. I want to state that this is a commercial center and that my statement is from a commer- cial standpoint and not from a political standpoint. This is not the political center. Guthrie is the political center. Oklahoma City is the commercial center for the Southwest for Oklahoma and the Indian Territory. MONEY RATES. Q. Do you want to make any statement to the committee with regard to the rates of money in this Territory? — A. Yes, sir; I would like to speak of that. The "rate of money on farm loans can readily be had at 6 per cent tiat from insurance companies. We have issued some 4 per cent thirty-year bonds and sold them at 2 per cent pre- mium. Our credits liere are looked after and are in as much demand as credits are in States, both for municipal, railroads, and all other credits. Q. Would the Territorial form of government that you have had up to the present time retard your development ?— A. No, sir; 1 think not. Q. Do you think 3'ou would have gone ahead as fast as you would had you had State government? — A. Yes, sir, I do; because the devel- opments we have made in the thirteen years is phenomenal: and the very fact of giving us statehood, what is known as single statehood, with both Oklahoma and the Indian Territory would increase the prop- erty of our country, as I think, from a commercial standpoint. And further the witness saith not. I. M. HoLCOMB voluntarily appeared before the committee, and first having been duly sw^orn testified as follows: By the Chair:man: Q. State your name to the committee. — A. I. M. Holcomb. Q. Do you live here? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Were you a census enumerator? — A. Yes. sir. Q. Was your district in town or out in the country? — A. It was in town, the Third ward. Q. What was the actual enumeration in your district? — A. Twenty- five hundred and something. The census of our city was 10,000. Q. Was your enumeration correct at that time? — A. Well. I think it was about what was there. Q. Have you observed any increase since that!' — A. Yes, sir; a decided increase. Q. In that quarter? — A. Yes, sir. NKW STATEHOOD BILL. 209 Q. By iminioration, or liow^ — A. Well, largely by imnii^iatioii; ye.s, sir. Q. You are also the .superintendent of .sehools? — A. Ye.s, sir; 1 wa.s until la.st March. Q. Of thi.s city>— A. Yes, sir. SCHOOL ATTENDANCE. Q. What was the number of children in actual attendance in your schools while you were superintendent? — A. Last year in March, when I went out, at a rough estimate, it was 3,300. Q. How many teachers did you have? — A. We had (55 teachers when I went out. Q. Do you have a high schools — A. Yes, sir. COURSE OF STUDY. Q. What were the studies of the last grade of the hig-h school? — Trigonometry was our hig-hest mathematics. A. We had Virgil for Latin, and we had geology and the sciences. Q. Where did you take Cte.sar and those elementary thing's in Latin? — A. In the second year. We had Harkness system in the first year's work, Caesar in the second, Cicero in the third, and Virg-il in the fourth. Q. Do you Avant to make any statement as to the statehood ques- tion? — A. I want one State out of the two Territories, because we feel the two Territories complement each other. Q. Do you want single statehood for Oklahoma or. if you can not get that now% wait until the Indian Territory can come in? — A. Well, I want the two tog'ether. And further the witness saith not. T. B. Jones voluntarily appeared before the couanittee and, first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Ohaikman: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. T. B. Jones. Q. You were a census enumerator? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Was your district in town or out in the country? — A. The First Ward in the city. Q. Do you remem])er what the emuiieration was? — A. In my ward it was something like 1,800. Q. Did you take an oath to take the census accurately? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you do so? — A. Yes, sir; I did so to the best of my abilit3\ And further the witness saith not. And here, at the hour of 12 o'clock noon, the committee arose, to resume hearings at the cit}' of Guthrie, Okla., on the above date. Hotel Royal, (Iuthkie, Okla., Monday^ Noveiiiher '21^., 1902 — 2 jp. m. At the above-named place and date theconmiittee resumed the hear- ing of statements and testimony relative to the admission of Oklahoma Territory and Indian T'erritory to statehood. h s b 14 210 NEW STATEHOOD HILL. Hon. Thomas B. Ferguson, Govornor of Okhihoina, appeared before the conimittce and made a statement relative to the admission of Okla- homa Territory to statehood, as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Governor, the committee will l)e pleased to have you make what- ever statements you desire to make. — A. I presume — in fact, I do not kuow just the line along which you are asking this information. Are you wanting- information in regard to the condition of the Territories? Q. Anything that you desire to say. 1 take it that the committee would be' glad to hear anything l)earing on any phase or all phases of the question now before the committee, also anything you may have to submit on the question of double or single statehood. — A, Well, now, as to a statement of the conditions and resources of the Territory, do you particularly want anything of that kind i I can give it if you desire. Q. Did you read Mr. Flynn's statement before the committee? — A. Yes, sir. CENSUS RETURNS. Q. Have you anything to say in addition to that? — A. Nothing, only the later changes. Our last population the census return'^- gave us 541,0(J0 people. However, we believe it is not up to the full standard. We think that the changes in the population of the Territory will easily make 600,000 people. Q. Is that by immigration since ^ — A. Yes, sir; by inmiigration. Q. You do not impeach the census then?— A. No, sir: 1 do not. There has been a constant rush into the Territory. I think the census was nearly accurate — as nearly as could be. Our assessed valuation, as returned for the Territory", was $72,600,000. We went over that matter recently in the auditor's office and found that the assessors returned property, including all real estate and personal of every kind, with a little less than one-fourth of its value, which would give us about two hundred and eighty-eight to three hundred million dollars of prop- erty. We have in the Territory about ITO school ciiildren, and along that line I have a statement that I would submit that would cover all that ground. SENTIMENT FOR STATEHOOD. Q. Do you wish to make this statement as a part of your statement here? — A^ Yes, sir; I wish to make it as a part of my statement. And in regard to the sentiment for statehood over the Territory, I think it is universal among all classes, regardless of political affiliations; I think that the people of the Territory are for statehood. We believe that we are entitled to statehood, and entitled to it now. We believe that our conditions warrant it in every r(\spect — financially and educationally, and from a standpoint of population. Of course we believe that a majority of the people of the Territory want statehood for Oklahoma. 1 believe that; and, unless there are questions that you want to ask, that is all I care to state. Q. Governor, what have you to state as to the proposition that is in the minds of the people down here as to single statehood, as it is called here? — A. Well, a majority of the people of the Territory are not in favor of single statehood. ' We ))elieve that it would impose a burden NKW statp:h<)<)D hill, 211 of taxation upon us to heuUicHl with the Indian Territoiy which would ))e unjust to the people of this Territory, and especially does that hold good as to the school funds and the taxation for improvement in the Indian Territory which they haye not at this time. They have ahout l|60,<»00,00() worth of taxa])le property, according to an estimate of a committee sent from the Territory to investigate affairs in the Indian Territory, and we feel — 1 say we; I think I speak for at least a majority of the people of Oklahoma — that it would impose a burden of taxation, extra and additional, that we are at this time hardly able to bear. LANDS SET ASIDE FOR SCHOOL PURPOSES. By Senator Heitfeld: Q. What lands have you of the State lands set aside for your schools and other educational institutions? — A. We have sections 16 and 36 set apart for school interests and 13 and 33 for buildings. Q. Has the Indian Territory any such provisions? — A. It has no lands to set apart at all. It has no taxable property at all except real estate and personal property. The real estate in towns — town lots. It has no lands in m}' judgment which can be set apart. By the Chairman: Q. When these allotments are made and the titles perfected, then that land will be taxable? — A. Yes, sir. Q. So that when that is done it will add to the present 160,000,000 worth of taxal)le property which they have at the present time? — A. That remnant of land w^ould be taxable. Q. But how long would it be before that land would ])e taxable? — A. Well, what do you say i Twenty-one years was my understanding about it. Q. We understood that it would be taxable in live years? — A. I think that is a mistake. RESOL^RCES OF THE INDIAN TERRITORY. Q. What about the resources of the Indian Territory in the way of coal mines, tim))er, and so on ? — A. They have vast resources. Their resources in coal and timber are far ahead of ours. Our resources are purely agriculture. We have in the western part of the Territory what geologists claim is an unlimited cement deposit. It is being- worked no^v and hundreds of barrels are being shipped out. We have salt deposits that are being utilized, but beyond that w^e have little wealth of that character and w^e depend almost wholl}' upon our agri- cultural interests. By Senator Dillingham: Q. You say you are in favor of statehood for Oklahoma alone. Do I understand you to say that you would faAor eventual statehood for the Indian Territory, or favor having the Indian Territory come in in parcels? — A. Oh, we are in favor of Oklahoma statehood at the pres- ent time with the provision for the Indian Territory to be added from time to time as conditions will permit, but we hai'dly feel at this stage in our Territorial history that it would l)e exact justice to tax us with the })urden that would necessarily result from an alliance with the Indian Territory at this time. 212 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. liy the CiiAiiiMAN: Q. What would you say as to the proposition of separate statehood for the Indian Territory, 'first as a Territorial government and event- uallv separate statehood ? Do you think the people desire that ^— A. _ 1 believe that a majority of the" people of this Territory would be in favor of that. I think the majority of the people ac([uiesce in the present bill, and y(>t 1 believe that the prevailing sentiment in the Ter- ritory would l)e in favor of Oklahoma as a separate State, By Senator Dillingham: Q. Is this opinion confined to any section, or is it all over the Ter- ritory 'i Would Oklahoma City take one stand on that and Guthrie take another stand u[)on that question^ — A. To some extent. POLITICAL features ELIMINATED. Of course, we understand that all political features are to be elimi- nated in these matters, but simply referring to the last election would illustrate that. The eastern portion of the Territory voted largely regardless of political affiliations against the proposition upon which Mr. McGuire was elected. By the Chairman: Q. What was the i)roposition for which they voted affirmatively^ — A. Single statehood. The two Territories to be admitted too-ether. I know that the matter came up in committee meetings in this way. I know that the Democrats and Republicans in the neighborhood of Shawnee were supporting Mr. Cross on the ground that his stand as the representative of the Territory would l)c for Oklahoma statehood. ISSUE or immediate statehood. In the Avestern part of the Territory, all along the Rock Island, the people, regardless of party, supported Mr. ^NIcGuire on the issue of immediate statehood. Q. Has the proposition been up to your people yet for consideration or for expression of opinion by voting or otherwise as to immediate statehood for Oklahoma Territory with eventual statehood for the Indian Territory ^— A. That has never been before our people. That has only been discussed a little in the press. Q. Then do you desire to have your former opinion expressed as in favor of that idea of making two States out of these two Territories^ — A. I believe I would be honestly stating the prevailing sentiment in the Territory in making that statement. I would be willing to have that statement made. Q. What is the feeling in the Indian Territory on that question^— A. The prevailing sentiment for statehood with Oklahoma as far as I have been able to ascertain, I think there is an element there at places for statehood regardless of Oklahoma. 1 gather largely from the press of that Territorv, but I believe that the prevailing sentiment, if it could be ascertained in the Indian Territory, especially among the business men, is for Oklahoma statehood— that is, statehood Avith Oklahoma. NEW STATP:H0(>D lULL. 213 Q. Single .statehood, so called?— A. Sino-le statehood; yes, sir. And further witness saith not. Here follows the statement tiled by the last-named witness as a part of liis testimony: POPULATION. The population of Okhihoma, as shown by the returns of the county assessors, is 541,480. This shows a gain over 1901 of 142,149, or nearly 'M\ per cent. This enumeration indicates an average of 14 persons to the square mile of area. The combined population of the three new counties, Comanche and Kiowa, is 78, 838. Percentage of illiteracy is 5i per cent. Percentage of foreign born is 4 per cent. Valuation of property returned for taxation in 1902 was $72,677,428, showing an increase of $12,212,727 over 1901. PROPERTY. As the property is returned liy the assessors at al)Out one-fourth of its actual value, it is evident that the real value of the taxable property in the Territory is about JS^800,000,000. Value of farm lands as returned $22, 614, 650 Value of town property as returned 11, 629, 199 Value of railroads as returned 6, 339, 462 Value of moneys and credit as returned 3, 068, 273 Value of other property as returned 29, 025, 839 TAXES. Territorial tax levy is lit- mills. Resulting revenues will be |5f)6,950.90, which is an increase of $113,398.69 over 1901. INDEBTEDNESS. The Territorial indebtedness on November 80, 1902, was $466,950.43, which is about 85 cents per capita. BONDS. The bond-interest fund has to its credit $21,504.02. The Territorial levy for this fund was increased to one-half mill, which it is expected will so increase the fund that the bonds may be redeemed at an early date. There is deposited in the I'erritorial depository the sum of $532,498. 30. Some 2,968,000 acres of land have been settled upon during the past year, and there are yet about 8,777,»>(>0 acres, not included in reserves, open for settlement*. This land is mostly located in Beaver County. SCHOOL LAND. All of the 2,055,000 acres of school land are leased, and the income for the year 1902 from the same will amount to about $8<>(>,(H)0, which is more than double that received for the previous year, iientals have been reasonable, and as a rule well paid. 21-1 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. SrilOOL ATTENDANCE, There were taught during" the year l!>Ol, 2,278 schools, with an aggre- gate atteiuhmce of 110,971, being 112,048 white and 4,1»28 colored. The total amount paid teachers in salaries was $502,277. Total amount expended among common graded schools was $783,679.49. Two hun- dred and seventeen schoolhouses were erected at a cost of $lol.958.72. One thousand eight hundred and two pupils were graduated from our common schools. Territorial school fund, amounting to $267,105.14, was apportioned among the various counties. KAILWAY MILEAGE. The railway mileage as returned for taxation in ]March was 1,413.20 miles of main track and 178.55 miles of side track. Over 500 miles of railroad have been built during the past year. Shipments out of the Territory during the past year were: Cattle far loads. . 6, 442 Wheat do. . . . 18, 593 C'Orn do 210 Castor beans do 65 Oats do 308 Hogs d bill. 217 practically without schools. We would lik(^ our people in some way to be provided with schools. Q. Could not that be obtained with a Territorial trovernment^ — A. Yes, sir; I su})pose so. We have no pu])lic lands that can be used for that purpos(>. Nothing- only by taxation of the citizens in the nation, not native citizens. We feel that we niioht be able to make Cono-ress see these thing's as we see them. That is what we have made this country what it is, and it would be fair for Congress to l)uy the coal lands from the Indians and donate it to the Territory as a school fund; that is, the Government of the Unitc^d States pay for them out of their Treasury and donate the lands to us. And further the witness saith not. Sidney Clark appeared voluntarily before the committee, and first having- been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator Dilli\(tIiam: Q. You may state you name to the committee. — A. My name is Sidney Clark. Q. You may proceed with such statement as you wish to make to the committee. — A. I only desire to make a remark or two in connec- tion with this subject. CHAIRMAN OF THE STATEHOOD EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE. Q. Well, sir, proceed to make it. — A. I am chairman of the statehood executive committee, which has been in existence in this Territory ev^er since the statehood movem?nt was first started. The commit- tee is composed of one member in each county. It is nonpartisan in character, although a large number of the members are Republicans, and there are some Populists and Democrats. At the last convention I was made chairman of a memorial committee. That convention was held on the 80th day of Jaiuiary, 190-, while the last Territorial legis- lature was in session. It was ,held in this city, and was composed of about 300 or 850 delegates, representing' nearly all of the parties and business interests in the Territory. That convention appointed a committee to memorialize Cong*ress. composed of myself as chairman, and A. J. Seay, F. E. Cillett, and Dick T. Morgan. The conmiittee formulated a memorial, wdiich was presented to the House of Representatives, and was before the Com- mittee on Territories of the House of Representatives. Whether or not a copy of this memorial was presented to the Committee on Terri- tories in the Senate I am not advised. I have a copy here, and it represents our application for statehood. I think it is exceedingly conservative in its statements, and we })elieve that it states sufficient reasons why we should be admitted as a State in the I'nion. The fig- ures given with reference to population and some other matters are very much less than the actual figures. For instance, the figures for population are given as 8i>8,000, which was the population on the 1st of June, 1900, two yeai's and six months ag'o. Since that time three counties in the southwest have been added, and a very larg'e population was thus brought in at one time, and our estimate of the population now is not less than o'25JH){). Another correction I desire to make in regard to this memorial is in regard to the banks. The numl)er of 218 NEW STArt^HOOD HILL. iKiiiks o-iven here is very much less, by some 50 or (lO or 75, than the biinks which are actually in existence at this time in the Territor^^ INCREASE IN NUMBER OF BANKS. There has been a very lai-ye increase in the last two years and a half, especially under th(> last law of (.'ono-ress authorizing- the establish- ment of national banks with smaller capital than had theretofore been authorized. I desire to say that about 1,(HJ() miles of additional rail- road has been constructed or is under construction; so 1 think 1 am justified in saying that this memorial which I present to the commit- tee, and upon which we are willing to rest our case as to our right to statehood, is very conservative. Unless the committee desires to ask ({uestions, I do not know that I have anything further to sav. Q. Do you desire to have this memorial made a part o( your testi- mony before the committee^ — A. Yes, sir; 1 w^ould like to have this .memorial made a part of my testimony. (Said memorial was thereupon tiled with the committee, and is attached as Exhibit L.) By Senator Dillingham: Q. Is this an application for statehood for Oklahoma alone as a Territory ( — A. Yes, sir. Q. And does it look to the addition of the Indian Territoiyif Does the memorial give the reasons why Oklahoma should be admitted as a State upon its present population and resources ( — A. I will sa}' further that the statehood executive conmiittee, <'onsisting of persons from all parties, mostly Republicans, however, are heartily in favor of the bill which has been passed by the House of Representatives and is now pending in the Senate. Q. Do you mean the omnilnis bill ^ — A. Yes, sir. Q. You do not rest your case upon your own merits, then ^ — A. Yes, sir; we rest our own case upon our own merits. Q. By that statement do you mean that your committee have exam- ined into the righr to statehood of the other two Territones that you have included in this omnibus l)ill, and are in favor of that bill passing, or none;! — A. No, sir; that is not my answer. Q. Do you mean by that that you are in favor of the Flynn l)ilH — A. I say that individually 1 am in favor of the Flynn ])ill. The state- ment that we make on behalf of Oklahoma is that Oklahoma is abun- dantly able for statehood. In answering the question further 1 do not speak for the committee at all. And further the witness saith not. Thomas H. Doyle voluntarily appeared before the conmiittee and, lirst having been duly sworn, testiiied as follows: By Senator Burnham: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. My name is Thomas 11, Doyle. Q. Where do you reside? — A. At Perry, Noble County. Okla. Q. And your age and occupation? — A. I am 39 years of age, and a lawyer by profession. NKW STATEHOOD HILL. 219 SINGLIO STATEHOOD CONVENTION. Q. Mr. Doyle, you desire to iiiako some statement ; if you will pi'o- ceed to do so\ve will be ol)liged. As I understand, you have taken some inter(^st in this matter and you are the author of some l)ill and we would like to know your views on that hill. — A. Why, I, as chair- man of the delegation selected by the single statehood convention. Indd at Muskogee November 12, llHji, to pres(>nt the claims of the p(M)ple of both Territories for recognition l)efore Congress, on the theory set forth by the resolutions and the memorial adopted by that convention asking "that Congress grant statehood to Oklahoma and Indian Terri- tory, united as one State, went to AVashington about a year ago at this time in connection with John Bradford, of Ardmore, another delegate, and, at the recjuest of the Conunittee on Territories, prepared a bill on the line of a union of Iwth of the Territories as one State, which was introduced bv Mr. Stephens, of Texas, and is known as the Stephens statehood bill*. At the request of youi- chairman. Senator Beveridge, 1 prepared a bill which was introduced in the Senate by Mr. Patterson, officially known as Senate^ bill 8368, which was practically the same bill, and is entitled "A bill to provide for the union of Oklahoma Ter- ritory and the Indian Territory, and to enable the people thereof to form" a constitution and State* government, and to l)e admitted into the Union as the State of Oklahoma on an equal footing with the original States, and to make donations of public lands to such State. January 30, lt»02. Read twice and referred to the Conmiittee on Ter- ritories," Avhich bill is now pending before the Senate Committee on Territories. I believe that it is the sentiment of the people of Okla- homa and the Indian Territory, almost unanimously among the class of people who have given the "statehood matter any thought, that the two Territories should be united as one State. THE rUBLIC VOICP:. The public voice, as far as it is voiced, as far as it has voiced itself in nonpartisan conventions, has so declared, the resolutions of the most representative body that we have under the law, being the legis- lature, has repeatedly declared for single statehood, the last declaration being the memorial addressed to the Congress of the United States, passed in March, 1901, and approved by the governor, which is printed on page 193 of the session laws of 1901, passed without a dissenting voice in both houses, demands single statehood, that is, a union of V)oth Territories as one State. COMMERCIAL ORGANIZATIONS DEMAND UNION OF THE TWO TERRITORIES. The commercial clubs and boards of trade of the Territory, in so far as they have expressed themselves, have demanded the union of both Territories as one State. Oklahoma City demanded on the line set forth in the Stephens and Patterson bills. This memorial was addressed to ('ongress by practically a full meeting of the Board of Trade of Oklahoma City some time last spring, and since the introduc- tion of these bills. The condition of Oklahoma Territory, if admit- ted on the lines of the Flynn bill, can best be expressed by the veto message of our then governor, Barnes. I was a member at that time 220 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. ot" the ii«s('iiibly, unci had ))een a member of a previous assemljly with Governor Barnes. A bill was passed, as is some precedent to justifv, l\v the leiiislative assembly, asking- for statehood, asking for a consti- tutional convention, providing that the Indian Territor}' should be added by piecemeal. The bill was vetoed by Governor Barnes, and his veto message occurs on page 1085 of the Council Journal, and I ask that that be made a part of my statement: that is on page 1085 of the Council Journal of l!H)l. This is the veto message which I cut out of ni}^ Council Journal. And here said A^eto message, introduced b}' the witness, was read to the committee, and is as follows: Guthrie, Okla., Mardt 0, 1899. To the Honorable Council, Fifth Legislative Assembly. Gkxtlemex: I believe that the people of Oklahoma de^iire statehood in tlie Ameri- can Union, because it is the highest and l)est form of free government known to the children of men, and 1 am in hearty sympathy with this desire and purpose, but I do not believe, all things considered, that the enactment of this bill into a law would advance the interests of Oklahoma toward the fruition of our hopes one iota. No sincere man will for a moment contest the statement that a State government would be much more expensive to maintain than is our present Territorial government. The expenses of a State government nuist be borne by taxation of the jn-operty of the i)eople, and the people of Oklahoma who pay the taxes are not in conclition, nor do they wish, to assume any additional ijurden of that I'haracter. It is true that our people have ])een generally i)rosperous for the past few years, but it is as well for those who have in keeping the welfare of the State, as it is for the individual, to con- sider carefully the results of any proposed enterprise before taking a step that will incur additional obligations and increased assessments to meet them. We should not forget that Oklahoma is in some respects as yet an experiment. We might have a recuirenceof the dry seasons of 1894 and 1895. The recent action of Congress refusing to ratify treaties with the Cherokees and Creeks, pledging the United States to a poUcy of continued separation of the two Territories, is significant to the thought- ful mind and indicates a well-settled and determined purjwse in the minds of Sena- tors and Representatives never to admit ( )klahoma and the Indian Territory as two States. And I feel sure that the ultimate destiny of the two Territories is that of single statehood. This being true, to hold a constitutional convention at this time to form a constitution for Oklahoma upon the lines laid down in this bill would not advance the matter in the slightest degree, but, on the contrary, would retard and hinder the growth of a healthful political sentiment in the Indian Territory in favor of such a union. With the Indian Territory incorporated with Oklahoma in one State we would place a star upon the flag of our country whose luster would not be dimmed by the constellation of magniticent States ])v which we are surrounded. Our varied resources of timber, mineral, agricultural, and grazing land would forever furnish the necessary supplies to pay the expenses of a lirst-class State government, and enable us to build and maintain penal, reformatory, and eleemosynary institu- tions that would compare favorably with those of the most advanced and progressive ]n ople, and all without the people who must always pay the taxes for the support of the government, feeling in the slightest degree the burden of excessive demand by the taxgatherers. (_)n the other hand, Oklahoma, with her resources restricted to agriculture and the raising of cattle, without the hope even of development of voal or other minerals in paying quantities, or the development of manufat-turing industries, would be but a weak and feeble commonwealth in the great sisterhood of States. We have never, as yet, raised a revenue in any one year sufficient to pay the run- ning expenses of our Territorial government, and a casual deficit has been steadily increasing year by year. By reason of the Federal limitations upon our debt-creating power, and by reason of a careful and econoniic-al administration of Territorial laws, aided in no small degree by the (General Government, which pays a large share of our governmental exi)enses, we have been al)le to maintain the credit and good name of our Territory. < )ur taxable valuation, placed last year at about torty millions, was the subject of much criticism by the people, and the very first bill passed by the hon- orable House of Representatives of your Honoral>le body was to reduce said valua- tion to S:i2, 000,000. I assume, therefore, that the people do not wish to incur the expenses of two special elections and of holding a constitutional convention without better prospects of ameliorating the condition of affairs than this measure seems to offer. I therefore feel constrained to return council l)ill No. 47, lieing "An act providing for the formation of a constitution." NEW STATKHOOD BILL. 221 I desire to further state tluit 1 believe, by cai-eful researcii. that tiie provisions of the Patterson l)ill provided and meet the conditions existing- in the Indian Territory at this time, it being- a Territory without a county municipal government, 1 believe that section 1 absolutely providers and covers all the rights under th(> treaties that have been granted to the Indians. 1 believe that this l)ill, in its provisions for the sale of the school lands, or from allowing it to be a matter of local self-government, providing that the new State may continue to lease, offers the pro})er })rinciple, as undi'r the original grants it was intended that it sliould bi' treated as a matter of pur('h" local concern; and that any disposition or appropriation of these funds, that it should give to the people the right, to l)e expressed through their chosen representatives in the constitutional convention, or the State legislatures that will sit as following the constitutional asseml>ly. The omnibus bill discriminates as against several of the Territorial educational institu.tions in the division of the proceeds of the pul)lic lands. SALE OF PUBLIC SCHOOL LANDS. The provision in the bill pending as to the sale of the public school lands provides that the President may make such other reservations in addition to sections 16 and 36. Thirteen was reserved for college purposes and 83 for building purposes, which was afterwards ratified by Congress in l8i>4. Thirteen and 33 were not reserved in original Oklahoma, but only in the Cheyenne, Arapahoe, Iowa, and Kickapoo reseivations, or the Potawatomi Reservation, those only ])eing reserved in the seven counties which include the Cherokee Outlet. We believe that it should be left to the constitutional assembly, as the Patterson bill provides, and not as under the provisions of the Flynn bill, which discriminates in favor of three particular educational institutions. A scandal occurred on the return of President Boyd, of the university, and President Escott, of the Agricultural College, who went down to Washington and secured the insertion of section 8 in the omnibus bill, wdiich modified the Flynn l)ill in that it gave one-third of the proceeds of all of those lands to each of these institutions. Our first governor of the Territory, ]VJr. Steele, at present a member of Congress from Indiana, is the author of the leasing- law which pro- vides for the leasing of public lands in the Territories. From his observation and experience as governor of this Territory he secured the passage of that bill. The people who failed to get homesteads in the Territory got leases on sections 16 and 36, and 13 and 33. VALUABLE IMPROVEMENTS IN LANDS. These people have placed valuable improvements upon these lands, and the improvements are taxable. They have believed at all times, and w^c believe, so far as the legislative assembly has spoken — I have been the author of two bills in the fifth and sixth leg'islati\'e assem- blies, which were vetoed by the governor, which were intended to give these people, these lessees the right to have the preference in the pur- chase of those lands, and that they should not be conipelled to bid against outside parties at public sale. On this presumption, provision or full provision giving them the preference right, we made the ])ro- vision generally applied to all in the Territory. My idea and the 222 NEW STATEHOOD KILL. ideas expressed in the Patterson bill are that that matter should be left to the constitutional assembly or the State assembly as to the manner of the disposal of said lands. Q. What is vour view of the situation under the Patterson bill^ — A. I would provide, after careful research, that the deleg-ates elexjted to the constitutional assembly shall be elected at large from each of the five Indian nations, oranting them their pro rata under the census of 1900; that the constitutional assembly shall have the right to create not to exceed 24: counties; that in the State election to be held that the county officers necessary to hold the election, to wit, the clerk and comniissioners, be appointed in these counties until their elections can be held; that in the State election to l)e held the county officers shall be elected in these counties; that pending that election for the ratifica- tion of the constitution and the election of State officers, which are both to be held at the same election, the governor shall appoint the officers necessary to hold the election, to wit, the clerk and commis- sioners, to hold office until the election is held. Q. Whv do vou favor the two Territories together ^— A. Our Ter- ritorial tax is now 78 cents on the ^100; it is excessive. The Gov- ernment now pays oar judges, our supreme and nisi prius judges, our legislative assembly, and our marshals. In order to maintain the public institutions, our penal and eleemosynary institutions, it would increase our tax rate to keep up a State government almost to the point of confiscation in some instances. I do not believe that the people could i)ear the burden of a strictly agricultural State, the census show- ing that the increase of population for the new States, after the home- stead land is taken up. is very slow. THE UNION OF THE TWO TERRITORIES THE REMEDY. The remedy is that both of the Territories should ))e united; that the 2,400 miles of railroad in the Indian Territory, the :)00,000 acres of mineral land, which must be sold within two years, will make up a taxable wealth in the Indian Territory in addition to that of the 200 towns in the territory of the new State. I would like to file an argu- ment with the conuuittee which I have of these bills. We hold a statehood convention on the od day of December. And further the witness saith not. Ex-Governor C. M. Barnes appeared before the committee, and first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By the Chairman: Q. Governor, will you please state your name, for the records — A. My name is C. M. Barnes. Q. What is your business now? — A. lam president of the Logan Count V Bank of (nithrie, Okla. Q. 'the committee would be pleased to have any statement from vou which you think would be useful to the committee. — A. I wish to !vay that I am not present here by any inclination of my own; that I was requested by several gentlemen to come before the coumiittee, and that I come riot entirely as a volunteer. I call your attention to the four animal reports made l)v me while 1 was governor of the Terri- torv, from Mav, 1897, to Mav,"l900. NKW STATEHOOD BILL. 223 PROGRESS AND DEVELOPMENT EXCEPTIONAL. I want to siiy, in addition to what I have said here in those reports on that question, that the projj-ress and development of the Territory has continued to be exceptional from that time up to the pi'esent time: that w^e have had a succession of good years and i>ood crops; that the people have developed the wealth of the Territory very ra]3idly from an agricultural standpoint, and it is the general s<'ntiment of all the people now that they are able to support and sustain a Static govern- ment. The}' are W'rong about that. As a general proposition, I think the people generally expect that sooner or later we will be combined as a State with the Indian Teri'i- tory, but our people are not willing to await the settlement of ati'airs over there until the}' are ready to assume the l^urdens of statehood. We are read}", willing, and able to pay the bill. And while I say that. 1 do not thiid-L that there is any great popular clamor for haste or for immediate statehood. We would be perhaps willing- to w^ait another year. If a ])ill could be granted so as to place our campaign one year later our people would be very well satisfied with that; I think so. But as a general rule our people are able and willing, and would be glad to have the bill passed as it is now pending before the Senate, with perhaps some few amendments, which are not necessary to mention. Q. Which bill? — A. The part of the bill wliich relates to Oklahoma, which is known as the omnibus bill. Q. In other words, the Flynn bill, which has been made a part of the omnibus bill? — A. Yes, sir; I think that the people here generally favor the passage of that bill. Q. You confine your remai'ks to that part of the bill which affects Oklahoma? — A. Yes, sir. OKLAHOMA SENTIMENT AS TO ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO. The people here have no intei'est in the part of the bill which relates to Arizona and New Mexico, and I guess if there is any sentiment here on that c[uestion it is unfavora))le. I want to call attention to the last paragraph of my last repoi't, which was made two years ago, and that is very short. It reads as follows: "The citizenship of Oklahoma is very largely composed of intelligent and educated people. American born and raised in the various States about us, who know the oldigations and are willing to assume the full responsibilities of statehood.*" I do not know that I have anything further to add. ami I thank the committee for this opportunity to present these matters. And further the witness saith not. S. T. Goodman voluntaril}^ appeared before the conunittee, and. first having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator Dillingham: Q. You may state your name to the committee. — A. My name is S. T. Goodman. Q. Have you any oflicial position? — A. No, sir. Q. Where do you live? — A. At Tonkavva, Okla. Q. Now, make your statement in the briefest possible form, as we are pressed for time. 224 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. A TKKRITOKIAL SCHOOL. A. Two years ago the legislature of this Territory established a Ter- ritorial school for higher educational purposes in Kay, in what we know as "'The Strip"" do VA^n here. And in arranging this statehood hill that is now before the Senate there was not any provision made for this school to rt^'eive any of the benefits from that school land whatever. I refer now to section 13 in each township, which was oranted V)y President Cleveland's proclamation opening the Territory. It was granted for the use of the Territorial schools for higher educa- tional purposes, and this school, which was recently organized, I think it was overlooked; and we are only seeking to get a share, our share, of whatever belongs to the school of that land, or the proceeds of it. Q. That is the point that you want to make to the committee, is it, Mr. Goodman^ — A. Yes, sir. And further the witness saith not. Judge J. C. Strancj voluntarily appeared before the committee and, lirst having been duly sworn, testified as follows: By Senator Burnham: Q. Are you now holding judicial ofBce? — A. No, sir; I have never been on the l)ench here; 1 have been on the ])ench twelve years in Kansas. I was attorney-general for the last term, last spring, here in the Territory. Q. And you have been a resident here how long? — A. Since 1893. Q. And you are now engaged in the general practice? — A. Yes, sir. Q. You have some statement to make; if you will state it briefly we will be obliged. — A. I desire to say this: That in mv judgment we do not need any statehood until the Indian country is ready to come in with us. I believe if w^e get statehood for Oklahoma now, and get our pennl and chsiritable institutions located and Iniilt, it will mean statehood for Oklahoma for all time. OKE OOOD state FROI THE TWO TERRITORIES. It seems to me that we ought to have one good State from these two Territories, and my judgment is that admitting Oklahoma now. and locating the state capital, and the penal and charitable institutions, will preclude the unity of the two Territories. Q. How general is the opinion to which you have given expression ? — A. I think it is very general, outside of the politicians who want to become Senators and governor. people's interest in STATEHOOD. Q. Have you in mind the percentage? — A. Well. I think that 75 per cent of the peoi)le of this Territory, if you would go to them and ask them, would say that they preferred to go with the Indian coun- try, and that they are not anxious for statehood now. 1 have talked with speakers in the campaign, when they would come l)ack here, and they would say, "Why, we can not get them interested in the state- hood question." I have talked with people on the question of voting for Mr. Maguire. I would ask them why they voted for Maguire, if NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 225 it was on the statehood proposition, and they would say, '"No; we think he is the best num." My judg-ment is that the reason many voted for him was because he came here early, and helped dev(dop the Territory, and knew where he lived, and where to iind him. and did not know where the other man lived exactly. Our fellows talk about our haying a very large population in Oklahoma, and wealth, all that sort of thing. We are developed now, gentlemen, A FARM ON EVERY QUARTER SECTION. We have got a farm on every quarter section, nearly every quarter section of land in the Territory. All the additional population we can get in the Territory now above what we have got has got to come from the building up of the cities. The farmers and business men are doing well, and they do not need statehood, either. The United States Gov- ernment is furnishing us judges, paying our legislature, and our peo- ple are thoroughly satistied with the conditions as the}' are now. And further the witness saith not. T. J. Lowe voluntarily appeared before the committee, and asking leave to make a statement to the committee, made the following state- ment: AN AGRICULTURAL COUNTRY. Mr. Lowe. Outside of politics, my opinion is that it is best for all parties to have single statehood, as this Territory alone is an agricul- tural country with no manufacturing interests, and we need the coal in the Indian Territor}- to help us here, and one State would have juris- diction especially of the rates and could give us decent coal rates. Another thing is that our taxes now are about 8i in mnny of the counties, and we are not able to get into statehood at this time; so far as I am personally concerned I am opposed to any statehood at all at the present time for these reasons. But the sentiment of the people in both of the Territories is for single statehood. Outside of the poli- ticians who want to become governors and LTnited States Senators, I think the feeling is that we are opposed to statehood at all at the present time. And further the witness saith not, (Mr. L. G, Edwards, president of the Conmiercial Club of Norman, Okla,, tiled with the committee, by permission of the committee, a memorial on behalf of said club, wliich appears as Exhibit M,) And here, at the hour of 3.30 p, m,, the committee adjourned the hearing of testimon}' relative to the admission to statehood of the Territories of New Mexico, Arizona, Oklahoma and the Indian Ter- ritory. H s B— -^15 EXHIBIT A. IN THE DISTRICT COURT, FOURTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT, TERRITORY OF NEW MEXICO. The followino- is a list of the Territorial grand and petit juries who served in the counties comprising- the Fourth judicial district for the Territory of New Mexico, viz, San Miouel, Colfax, Union, Mora, Guadalupe, beginning- with the fall terms of court, 1900, and ending with the fall terms of court, 1902: SAN MIGUEL COUNTY. List of grand jurors, Territorial court, November term, 1900. W. T. Treverton. Jose Leon Madrid. Florencio Esquibel. Emilio Sanchez. Fermin Maldanado. Candelario Flores. Ambrosia Madrid. Cecilio Valverde. Calipetro Gurule. Marcelino Montoya. John Hill. Pedro Rivera. C. St. Allen. Engenio Rudolph. Felix Garcia. John W. Zollars. Jose Abram Salazar. List of petit jurors, Territorial court, November term, 1900. Clemente Angel. Juan Blea. Juan Martinez y Baca. Anastacio Buston. Crestino Garduno. Facundo Montoya. A. Gallegos. Jose Romero. Manuel Chavez. Lucrecio Lucero. Anastacio Quintana. Francisco Garcia. Alejandro Aregon. Rafael Gallegos. Francisco Narvaiz. Martin Marquez. Dolores Mares. Pedro Roubal. Jose E. Apodaca. Donaciano Otero. J. Minium. Isidoro V. Gallegos. Jose Lino Rivera. Henrv Neafus. IJst of grand jurors, Territorial court, May term, 1901. Jefferson Raynolds (foreman). Macedonio Montoya. Valerio Baca. Sostenes Delgado. Sixto Arm i jo. Francisco Ribera y Martinez. Gabriel Chavez. F. O. Blood. Eligio Gallegos. Seventeen good and lawful men, taken from the body of the county of San Miguel, etc. 226 Macario M. Lobato. Encarnacion Gonzales. Damacio Tafoya. Juan Xemecio Crespin. Luis Gold. Pablo A. Sanchez. Ladisladio Gallegos. M. J. Crowlev. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 227 List of petit jurors, Territorial ronrt, Mai/ term, 1901. Faustin Padilla. Nestor Sanchez. Frutoso Sena. Jose G. Alarcon. Antonio Garcia v GallegOi?. Felipe Montoya. Joiin Dalton. Eugenio Griego. David Montoya. Fernando Aleniond. Pedro Garcia. Jose Varela. Twenty-four good and lawful men, Miguel, etc. Francisco E.sjuibel. Felipe Duran. Roman Gallegos. Vicente Martinez. Tranquilino (^iarcia. Pablo Vigil. Ricardo Gomez. Jo.se Rimirez. Juan B. Lucero. Manuel Montoya. Jesus (iuiterrez. I Gabriel Montoya. taken from the bodv of the countv of San List of grand i tiroes, Territorial court, Noremfjer term, 1901. Orecencio Gallegos. Epifanio Gonzales. Eleuterio Griego. Ysidoro V. Gallegos. Martin Varela. Manuel A. Sanchez. Eugenio Valdez. B. F. Forsythe. Sigmund Nahm. Leandro Jaramillo. Octaviano Sandoval. Jose Lucero. Antonio Griego. Luciano ]Maes. Indelecio Sena. Jose Ygnacio INIontoya. Marcelino Sabedra. IJst of petit jurors. Territorial court, November term, 1901. David Urioste. Petrolono Lucero. Romaldo Trujillo. Abado Garcia. Felix Garcia. Juan Esquibel. Francisco Wallace. Eugenio Gallegos. Atilano F. I'libarri. A. H. Whitmore. John Shank. Jesus Maria Romero. Bias Ortiz. Gumecindo Ortiz. Prospero Baca. Felipe Rivera y Martinez. Juan Jose Salazar. Clemente Segura. Jose A. Baca. Dario Atencio. Jose Felipe B. Montano. Lucrecio Lucero. Manuel A. Ganzales y Lucero. Anderson Brinkley (colored). IJst of grand jurors, Territorial court, May term, 1902. ]\L M. McSchooler (foreman). i Andres Lopez. Cruz Segura. Luciano ^Martinez. Delfino Gallegos. Daniel Stern. Justo Gonzales. T. B. McXair. Eugenio Gallegos. Santiago Wallace. Narcico Duran. Sabino Lujan. Martin Delgado. Felipe Medina. H. P. Brown. t Gregorio Garcia. J. B. Mackel. i List of petit jarors. Territorial court, Mag term, 190~ Manuel Tafoya. Dionicio Romero. Filomeno Cresi)in. Jesus Serna. INIanuel Rivera. Leandro Ortega. Ciriaco Griego. .Tuan L Gomez. Juan Coriz. Demetrio Garcia. Reyniundo INIartinez. Felipe Rivera. Felipe Maes. Juan Sandoval. Leandro Villanueva. Monico Anaya. Teofilo Garcia. Manuel Manzanares. Jose Andres IMontoya. Ramon Trujillo. Felix Garcia y ( aiiterrez. Marcos Tafoya. Fabian Gallegos. Trinidad Sena. Grand and petit jurors for November term, 1902, not yet impaneled. 228 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. COLFAX COrNTY. IJxt of (jraittl jurors, Territorial court, Mardi ter)ii, 1900. II. (i. Frankenberger. Alf Jelfs. Manuel Valdez. George W. Warder. W. J. Parker. George Beebe. Jolin Baldwin. Edward Brossard. Doniciano Graham. J. K. Hunt {foreman). J. Y. Fowler. Thomas Floyd, jr. Frank Heming. W. J. Linwoitd. J. A. Carter. William C. Branuni. Isaac L. Brackett. Lial of petit jurors, Territorial con rt, March term, 1900. AVade Brackett. C. F. Burns. Ed O. Brown. (.Tabino Bernal. J. M. Bell. W. M. dementi- W. Edward. Jesus Guiterrez. M. A. Lopez. David Padilla. C. W. Eickard. (ieorge W. Ives. Peter Larsen. Francisco ^Medina. W. L. Johnson. Walter INIcCloud. J. C. Orrin. Samuel Rathlmn. Stephen Wiseman. Fred Nash. J. F. White. ' Watson Spencer. Charles H. Bell. Ciiarles E. Howell. Lid of (/rami jurors, Territorial covrt, Septouber term, 1900. Harry Brainard. Henry Baruel. P. P. Fanning. J. R. Belisle.'^ Teodoro Baca. Thomas Clouser. Edward Duff v. C. A. Elles. Jo.se A. Espinosa. Edward L. Fugate. Severiano Martinez. Andres Fernandez. W. D. Kershner. Juan Jose Valdez. H. C. Jones. Meliton Xarva. J. Van Houten (foreman). List of petit jurors, Territorial court, Sejitemher term, 1900. J. J. Covle. W. L. Brackett. F. O. Crocker. Thomas English. M. Keleherr J. H. Morgan. Harry Musselwhite. Wm. H. Newton. Juan Ortega. S. H. Rogers. Nestor Padilla. Abe Sever. Edward Simons. Francisc(j Trujillo. Alex. Wersonick. J. J. Valdez. M. Montoya. Matias Mares. A. D. Coulter. Frank Cloud. Pablo ]\Iontoya. Isabel Baca. John W. Crouse. Lacev Everitt. List of grand jurors, Territorial court, March term, 1901. Alden Allen. J. M. Arellano. B. M. Blackwell. Fred Born. Patrick Bovle. J. J. Grifhii. James L. Livingston. W. K. Irwin. George E. Lyon (foreman] Amador Montoya. E. R. jNIanning. J. R. Vigil. Pedro y Santistevan. D. Cassan. E. \V. Fulehum. Nat Oldham. W. F. Degner. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 22'.) List of petit jnrorH, Territorial court ^ March term, 1901. Michael Cawley. Regin Belisle. Herman Fiinke. Robert Love. J. A. Rash. John Utton. J. M. Charetta. Perfecto Madrid. James Turner. Joe T. Jaikson. Salvador Tafoya. Harry Fry. Thomas Goin. J. A. Gise. M. B. Hays. A. G. Johnson. J. C. Miller. Fred Rohr. E. J. Love. P. H. Smith. Manuel Vi<:il. Henry Kruger. Isidoro Baca. Manuel Pai-heco. List of (/rand j lira r.t, Territorial court, September term, 1901. David G. Dwyer (foreman). Aubryn Allison. Oscar Trov. A. C. Prire. William R. Butler. J. W. p]shneur. Ventura Gallegos. R. W\ Maize. Manuel Arellano. Geo. "W. (Tillispie. E. R. Fullenwider. W. C. Braiinin. J. A. Carter. M. M. Salazar. W. J. Linwood. A. K. Letton. L. G. Walsh. List of petit jurorx, Territorial court, Septemfx'r ter)n, 1001. A. L. Bell. John Graham. T. G. Gregory. Daniel X. Jackson. E. A. Littrell. AV. F. Ruffner. Walter L. Sever. James A. Black well. R. H. Irwin. John Burchitt. J. W. Turner. Marion Uttrell. P. J. Delaney. L. ]NL Fleniiuij;. Charles }\. Howell. William Hahh. Frank Henning. Alfred Jelfs. J. A. Kremis. W. A. Moore. J. C. Orrin. S. H. Reed. C. D. Stevens. C. A. Whitted. List of grand jurors, Territorial court, March, term., 1902. J. P. Brackett (foreman) Elogio Charette. Robert Hern. R. H. Ayers. Perfecto Cordova. Pedro Chavez. Jesus Guiterres. Thomas Floyd, jr. Jacob Karlin. George Littrell. George E. Beebe. Thomas McBride. M. Keenan. Meliton Narvaiz. M. R. Mendelsohn. E. T. Officer. E. C. Sperrv. List of petit jurors, Territori'd, court, March term, 1902. Victor Montoya. Jose Pena. C. Ribera. M. A. Lopez. 0. P. Pessman. Charles Rohr. C. T. Stockton. G. M. Fetter. S. C. Gillispie. F. C. Peterson. J. I. Valdez. E. O. Brown. J. M. Bell. J. E. Fernandez. I. L. Brackett. J. N. Cook. William Edwards. R. Fitzgerrald. E. L. Fugate. E. O. Jones. Charles Kline. John Nason. F. C. Nash. Henrv Schroeder. 230 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. L(.s7 of (P'and juror.% Trrrltorlul miirt, Se pi ember term, 1903. Thomas English. Agapito Duran. P. P. Fanning. H. C. Jones. G. I^. Lyon (foreman). J, C. Lucero. Benito Mares. Rich Oldham. P. Y. Santistevan. S. C. Sproule. Manuel Valdez. Edgar W. Fulghrum. A. R. Stricher. William F. Degner. John W. Grouse. J. F. White. S. B. McRoberts. LiM of petll jurors, Terrltorinl court, Septemher term, 1902. J. B. Bidwell. Fred Born. Patrick Berry, jr. Fred Breugserman. J. M. Bel isle. Thomas Glauser. J. F. Gordova. F. Dickman. J. J. Griffin. Matt Heck. Allen Hal las. J. J. Little. Alex. Wersonick. S. A. Weisman. A. D. Goulter. C. A. Eariskson. Harry M. Fry. M. D. Havs. Fred Rohr. G. W. SiuTiock. Gharles Vight. Frank Braunin. G. H. Bell. Fred Mullen. UNION COUNTY. Lid of grand jurors. Territorial court, Scpteviher term, 1900. Jose de la Luz Garcia. H. Bramlett. S. N. Mitchell. Thomas P. James. Juan Martinez. Antonio [Mascaraneas. J. F. Brown. Alejandro Guiterrez. I. J. Morgan. Frank Rankin. G. W. Davis. Jose Dominguez. Pitacio Montoya. Rumaldo Martinez. Santiago Padilla. Mateo Lujan ( foreman) , lAst of petit jurors, Territorial court, September term, 1900. R. H. Gouley. A. G. Thompson. Howell Earnest. G. W. Pawley. J. Meagher. Teodore Bangeter. Francisco Miera. Valentine Martinez. Tranquilino Garcia. Miguel Romero. Donaciano Vigil. T. E. ]*Iitchell. Feliciano Molina. Cristobal Garcia. Candido Garcia. Antcmio ^Nlaria Sanchez y Ortiz. Manuel Fuentes. Manuel Gallegos. Epiminio Sanchez. German Garcia. Juan de Dios ^Martinez. Leandro ^lartinez. Manuel Encinias. Julian Padilla. List of grand jurors, Territorial court, March term, 1901. Carl Eklund (foreman). F. H. Alexander. Francisco Garcia. Teofllo Rael. Carl Gilg. Agustin Vigil. Dan Tavlor. P. L. Pinard. Jose Apodaca. Jose Manuel (ionzales. Mateo Arguello. Demetrio Cordova. Lonjino Esquibel. E. Fawcett. Alonzo Padilla. Andres (iarcia. J. S. Holland. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 231 Li.ff of petit jnror)^, Territorial court, March term, 1901. Harrv C. Thompson. William :\IcCa8h. Henry J. Collins. Francisco Lucero. Saturnino Pinard. Matias Casados. Francisco Uliberri. Preciliano Garcia. Marcelino Cordova. Filil)erto Gallegos. Rumaldo Fuentes. Leocadio Vigil. Nestor Marquez. James K. L. Johnson. Juan Jose Garcia. H. M. Foster. Elias Bernal. Leandro G. Gallegos. John Spring. F. A. Mestas. W. A. Miller. J. S. Jarrell. George B. Gold. L. E. Herron. Lint of grand jurors, Territorial court, September term, 1901. Robert P. Ervien (foreman^ Jose Cordova. Pedro ^Martinez. Samuel Collins. Jose P. Blea. Epifanio A. Gallegos. Alex. McKenzie. Manuel Martinez. Lino Garcia. Telesfor C. de Baca. Lucas E. Gallegos. S. M. Doran. Philip Denitz. J. W. Evens. James Goode. Tom A. Gray. Prudencio Ortega. List of petit jurors. Territorial court, September term, 1901. Benito Coi'dova. William Forester. Augustin Sanchez. Reyes P. Martinez. Francisco A. Gallegos. Joseph Doherty. . Jose D. L. Baca. Delfino S. Quintana. Jose L. ^Martinez. Enearnacion Lucero. Procopio Montoya. Jose Hilario Sancoval. Felix Castillo. Santiago Ortiz. Ricardo Casaus. Telesfor Casaus. Oscar Bell. Victor Sisneros. J. Prosper Stuyvesant. John King. Pablo Gallegos. J. C. Martinez. W. T. Thatcher. Matt. Emery. List of grand jurors, Territorial court, Mcnrh term, 1902. Christian Otto (foreman). Roy W. Lackey. Trinidad Guana. Frank Law. J. J. Chavez. Hipolito Garcia. Charles Callis. J. D. Casados. Pedro Miera. Julian Cadilla. Luis Sanchez. Nepomeceno Martinez. Alberto Sanchez. Sam Taylor. Jose Dominguez. E. H. Pricer Emiterio Gallegos. X/.sf of j)ctit jurors. Territorial ccmvt, September term, 1902. W. E. McCash (foreman). Fernando Garcia. Samuel T. Home. John Spring. William S. Potter. Juan Rael. Eusebio Padilla. Charles J. H. Bnshnell. J. S. Holland. Nicolas Vigil. Rumaldo Fuentes. Filiberto Gallegos. Leocadio Vigil. George Pawley. Abel Martinez. Saturnino Pinard. Juan ]\L c de Baca. 232 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Lixl of petit jurors, Territorial court, September term, 1902. Richard Pierce. Charles W. Sandford. Herinau Hilticrs. WiUiain J3ont/. James W. Wiggins. D. V. Padilla. David Cardenas. Antonio Miera. Santiago Padilla. Albino Roybal. Marcelino Cordova. Francisco L. Vigil. Albino Medina. Manuel Chacon. Loginio Esuuibel. Epemenio Sanchez. Elogio Lovato. Jose A. Crane. H. C. Thompson. ]\hinael 1). J. Mascaranes. W. N. Pasham. Jose de la J^nz Garcia. George Gold. L. E. Herren. MORA COUNTY. List of grand jurors, Territorial court, October term, 1900. Juan OHvas. Manuel M. Martinez. Marcelo Montova. Jose Demetrio Medina (foreman Faustin Leyba. Miguel Kucero. Juan Lujan. Doroteo Vigil. Felipe Basquez. Engenio Esquibel. Juan Romero. Luciano de Herrera. (jeorge Berg. David Armijo. Dionicio Sisneros. Pedro Gonzales. Jose G. Gallegos. List of petit jurors. Territorial court, October term, 1900. Julian Duran. Pedro Padilla. Pablo Solano. Juan Cristobal Martinez. Juan Rivera. Leandro Martinez. Antonio Velasquez. Pedro Garcia. Manuel Mora. Julian Gallegos. Ignacio Mestas. Manuel Torres. Jesus Maria Salazar y Santistevan. Jesus Espinosa. Carmen Sandoval. Cornelio Arguello. Alejandro Mares. Juan Jose Garcia. Daniel Espinosa. Hijinio ^lartinez. Jesus Maria Valdez. Tomas Padilla. Quirnia Abeyta. Albino Cordova. There was no session of court held in ^Nlora County in April, 1901, owing to lack of money in court fund. Juan Navarro (foreman Rafael Romero y Lopez Jose Vibian Fresquez. Anastacio Garcia, jr. Andres Gandert. Engenio Lobato. Miguel Espinosa. Jose Brazil. Manuel Valerio. List of grand jierors, Territorial court, October term, 1901. Jose ]Maria Perwa. Antonio Romero. Pablo Duran. Isidor INIontoya. Antonio Sanchez. Juan Prando. Andres ^lartinez. Guadalupe Garcia Sanchez. List of petit jurors, Terr it oricd court, October terni, 1901. Pantaleon Olguin. Fidal Duran. Donaciano Sanchez. Antonio S. Trujillo. Agapito ^Martinez. Ramos Barros. Juan de los Reyes Montoya. Juan Jose Quintana. Juan C. Quintana. Felipe Barreras. Ignacio Maes. Damacio Chavez. Jose Maria Martinez. Cesario Guana. Pedro Antonio Montoya. Laureano Bernal. Juan Manuel Sisneros. Juan de Jesus Sandoval. Lucas Mestas. Alejandro Mares. John Spinner. Jose Gregorio Leyva. Jose Marino Gonzales. Jose Encarnacion Aragon. NEW STATEHOOD JilLL. 233 f,int of grand jurors, Territorial court, April term, 1902. Tito ]\Ielin(les (t'oreinan). Francisco Martinez y Lncero. Nicolas Martinez. Nicolas ^Martinez. Gavino Rivera. Daniel Medina. Rafael (^uintana. Jnan Rfxlriguez. Sal)ino Rodriguez. Pedro Pad ill a. 'Cornelii) .\rguello. Julian Duran. Rutilio Luceid. Juan I>. IMea. Saul Padiila. Manuel Medina. Apolonio Cas^ados. List of prt it jurors, Territorial court, April term, l[i02. Rosendo Vialpando. Pedro Salazar. Ramon Frezquez. Felipe Vasquez. Jose de la Cruz Romero. Pedro Auto Fernandez. Loginio Duran. Anastacio ^lartinez. Apolonio de Herrera. Rafael de Herrera. Fernando Esquibel. Fernando Esquibel. Pedro Huatado. Charles Weber. Andres Varos. Jesus ^laria Romero y Sanchez. Victor Gallegos. Manuel Velasquez. \'idal C. Martinez. Juan B. Ortega. Pablo Abeytia, jr. Jose Dolores Garcia y Sanchez. Jose Valdez. Antonio ^Martinez y Pacheco. Antonio ^lartinez y Pacheco. Jose Ortiz. No term of the district court was held in Mora County during the month of Octo- ber, 1902. GUADALUPE COUNTY. List of grand jurors. Territorial court, June term, 1900. Charles Sumner (foreman). Dario Luna. Benito Nelson. Mauericio Ortiz. Jose E. (Tonzales. Isaac Sandoval. Estolano Ortega. Cipriano Flores. Simon Sena. Luis Gonzales. Fernando Aregon. Sostenos Romero. P. R. Page. Manuel E. ^lorales. Monico Madrid. Mariano Samora. Roman Dodge. List of jtetit jurors. Territorial court, June term, 1900. Antonio J. Aguilar. W. B. Giddings. •Reymundo Harrison. Bonifacio Lopez. Jose Pablo JNIartinez. Esquibel Cordova. Juan L. Sanchez. Santiago Uliberri. Feliciano Aragon. David Crespin. Cecilio Castillo. Ricardo Chavez. Liborio T^ncero. Florencio (iarcia. Pedro Lucero. Perfecto Baca. Gregorio Sanchez. Jose Sanchez y Baca. Daniel Sanchez. Toribio Florez. INIanuel Perea. Jose Samora. Elifigo Campus. Ascencion Padiila. 234 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. The next term of court held in the county of (iuadahipe was commenced on the 14th day of October, 1901. The grand and petit jurors at that term were as follows: Grand jurors. L. F. Churchhill (foreman). I Solomon Sanchez. Antonio Jose Aguilar. Manuel I'rioste. Paco Baca. Salome .Martinez. Santiago Giddings. Roman Dodge. Powers Gillispie. j Mariano Zamora. L. N. Le Testu. Narciso Saiz. W. R. Lott. I Jose Sanchez y Baca. Francisco Padilla. I Martin Barreras. Jose Pablo Sandoval. I Petit jurors, Guadalupe Couutij, Odoher term, 1901. Marcedou Chavez. Claro :Mestas. Matilde Chavez. Estolano (.)rtega. Jose Chavez y Garcia. i Ramon Campos. Damacio Gonzales. Roman Casaus. Dario Luna. Bernebe Gallegos. Bonafacio Lopez. Felipe Sanchez y Baca. Roman Labadie. l Victoriano Chavez. Nicolas Madril. | Anastacio Rael y Aranda. Hilario INLirtinez. Fernando Aragon. Roman Padilla. i Espiridion Abeyta. L. M. Shely. ; Toribio Flores. Pedro Via". I Severiano Griego. No term of the district court has been held in Gaudalupe County since October, 1901, owing to a lack of funds. The following contains a list of criminal accusations or indictments returned 1)V the o-nmd juries of the various counties comprising the fourth judicial district, from the fall terms of court in the year 1900 to the fall terms of court in the year 1902, ujaking practically a period of two years: SAN MIGUEL COUNTY. November term, 1900. Territorv of New Mexico r. Francisco Mora, larceny; Territory of New Mexico '•. Albino Sandoval, larceny; Territory of New Mexico r. Dario Salazar, assault on wife; Territorv of New Mexico v. Calvin ^Mortimer, larceny; Territory of New Mexico r. Mariano" Salazar, murder; Territory of New Mexico v. Desiderio Padilla, carry deadly weapons; Territory of New Mexico r. James Johnson, obtaining money on false check; Territory of New Mexico v. Manuel Sena, larceny of horse; Territory of New Mexico V. Romaldo Fernandez, assault and l)attery with intent to kill; Territoiy of New Mexico r. Noverto Gonzales, assault and battery; Territory of New ^Mexico r. Rey- mundo Nieto, assault with deadly weapon; Territory of New Mexico v. Juan de los Reyes Castillo, muider; Territory of New Mexico r. Calvin 3Iortimer, contempt of court; Territory of New Mexico v. Warrick M. Johnson, alias Maverick Johnson, and Simon Garcia, criminal complaint. Mail '^'■'». 1901. Territorv of New Mexico c. Reducindo Benevides, larceny from shop or ware- house; Territorv of New ]Mexico v. Reducinda Benevidez, burglary; Territory of New Mexico r. R. T. Montrose, obtaining money on forged check; Territory of New Mexico V. Marcos Montova, a^^sault with intent to" murder; Territory of New ^Mexico t\ John Duffv (colored), 'assault with intent to murder; Territory of New Mexico r. William Kilev, larceny; Territorv of New Mexico v. Ignacio Baca, larceny of cattle; Territory of New ]\Iexico r. Cenon Maes, larceny of swine; Territory of New :Mexico v. Jose Salas, larcenv of cattle; Territorv of New Mexico r. Simon Garcia, larceny of cattle; Territorv of "New Mexico v. Simon Garcia and Jose Salas, larceny of cattle; Territory of New " Mexico v. C. A. Long, Ales. Kauffman, Barney Gulkey, Fred Dexter, Dan NEW statp:h()()D bill. 235 Bnyik-r, bivukiuii: neul on car; Territory of New Mexiecj /■. C A. Long et al., entering railroacl car; Territory of New IVIexico r. Less Scarborough, James Hanson, and Karl Crigler, breaking seal on car; Territory of New Mexico v. Lee Scarborough, James Hanson, and Earl Crigler, entering railroad car; Territory of New Mexico /•. Earl Crigler, entering railroad car; Territory of Ne^v Mexico r. Earl Crigler, breaking seal on car; Territory of New jNIexico r. Alex Kauffman, entering railroad car; Territory of New Mexicfj r. Alex Kauffman, breaking seal on car; Territory of New Mexico '■. James Hanson, entering railroad car; Territory of New Mexico /•. James Hanson, breaking seal on railroad car; Territoi'y of New Mexico r. Dan Snyder, entering rail- road car; Teri'itory of New ^Mexico r. Dan Snyder, l)reaking seal on car; Territory of New Mexico v. Fred Dexter, entering railroad car; Territory of New 3Iexico r. Fred Dexter, breaking seal on car; Territory of New Mexico r. Barney Gulkey, entering railroad car; Territory of New Mexico v. fearney Gulkey, Invaking seal on car; Territory of New ^Mexico /•. C. A. Long, entering railroa Baca, discharging pistol in settlement; Territory of New Mexico v. Jose Ramon Trujillo, discharging pistol m saloon; Territory of New Mexico r. Jose Ramon Trnjillo, assault with deadly weapon; Territory of New ^Mexico r. Seralin Baca, unlawfully selling cattle; Territory of New^ Mexico r. Antonio Castillo, embezzling sheep; Territory of New ^Mexico v. Fred- erick A. Hummel, murder; Territory of New Mexico r. Tomas C'hancellor, assault with intent to murder; Territory of New Mexico v. Elmer Galvin and Charles Rivers, burglary; Territory of New Mexico r. Elmer Calvin, burglary; Territory r. Charles Rivers, burglary; Territory v. J.C. Minimum, selling liquor without license; Territory /'. Atanacio Casados, unlawfully purchasing cattle; Territory r. Pedro Peclia, assault and ))attery; Territory r. Guaclalupe Grtiz, murder; Territory v. Agapito Jaramillo, ai^peal; Territory of New Mexico r. Manuelita Salazar, appeal. colfax county. List of Ixdictmexts Retltrxed by the Grand Juries of Colfax County from THE September Term, 1900, up to and Including the September Term, 1902. September term, 1900. Territory r. Mendo Rodriguez, murder; Territory r. E. J. IIul)liard, appeal; Ter- ritory V. Thomas Thompson, appeal; Territory r. Mendo Rodriguez, murder; Terri- tory ('. Lucien N. Fewell (Pistol Johnnie), assault with intent to murder; Territory v. Raymond Stewart, burglary; Territory r. ]Maria Buena, appeal; Territory v. Joseph F. Jamison and Volney F. Jamison, unlawfully killing cattle; Territory v. J. F. Jamison and V. F. Jamison, larceny of cattle; Territory v. Walter Hartley, assault with intent to maim; Territory v. Abram Mondragon, murder; Territory v. Miguel Archuletta, unlawfully carrying arms; Territory r. Walter Hartley, highway robbery; Territory' /■. Abram Mondragon, assault with intent tonmrder; Territory v. Robert E. Lee, Charles Rohr, Jacob Schuelmeister, larceny of cattle; Territory v. Robert E. Lee and Jacob Schuelmeister, larceny of cattle; Territory r. Arthur E. Huyck, unlaw'- fully permitting prisoner to escape; Teri-itory v. Charles E. Peterson, unlawfully car- rying arms; Territory v. Frank il. Hubbard, larceny of horses; Territory v. Alexis R. Hubbard, jr., larceny of cattle; Territory ?'. William Boehner, larceny of cattle; Ter- ritory of New ilexico v. Herman Chevez, larceny of a horse; Territory of New Mexico V. Felix Gonzales, unlawfully discharging a pistol; Territory v. C. F. Colcord, obtain- ing propei'ty by false pretenses; Territory v. Charles Allison, assault with intent to rape; Territory v. Jesus Duarte, threatening with deadly weapon. Mdvrh term, 1901. Territory of New Mexico r. Luis ^Martinez, highwi^y robbery; Territory v. Joseph Weston, assault with intent to murder; Territory r. William Robinson, assault with intent to murder; Territory r. Severiano Gonzales, unlawfully carrying arms; Territory of New ^Mexico l-. Daniel Garza, murder; Territory of New Mexico v. Joseph Medlock, murder; Territory r. Joseph F. Jamison, ^'olney F. Jamison, larceny of cattle; Territory v. Joseph F. Jamison, Volney F. Jamison, unlawfully killing cattle; Territory v. Thomas O'Neill, unlawfully carrying arms; Territory v. Pearline Cheatham, alias Mrs. M. P. Cheatham, alias Pearline Goss, arson; Territory v. Pearline Cheatham, alias Pearline (ioss, alias Mrs. ]M. P. Cheatham, arson; Territory r. Emma Mussehvhite, arson; Territory r. Pearline Cheatham, alias Mrs. M. P. Cheatham, alias Pearline Goss, and Emma ]\Iusselwhite, arson; Territory v. A. S. Stewart, assault with intent to murder; Territory v. Harry Ruffner, assault with intent to murder; Territory v. W^illiam M. Johnson, assault with intent to rob. September term, 1901. Territory r. (luy Wolf, larceny; Territory v. Napoleon Canton, forgery; Territory V. J. Fidel ^Martinez, assault to murder; Territory v. Charles Luppy, unlawfully flourishing pistol; Territory v. Laura Pierce, assault and battery; Territory r. Salo- mon C. (Tarcia, forgery; Territory r. Daniel Garza, nmrder; Territoi-y r. V. L. Pizel, appeal; Territory r. Fred Julius, larceny; Territory /'. Miguel Archuletta, unlawfully flourishing pistol; Territory r. Nepomeseno Me(Una, unlawfully flonrishing pistol; Territory r. Mii-hael Leahy, larceny; Territory c. Fred Julius, larceny; Territory v. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 237 Alexis R. L. llubhard, laiTeiiy of horse; Territory r. Imiuuiiu'I Viiiil, vioiatiuj,' elec- tion laws; Territorry v. Jose' Roibal, violatino- election laws; Territory v. James Mackie, violatiii"; election laws; Territory v. Kiiuumel Vi^jil, Jose Roihal, James Mackie, violatinij election laws; Territory /'. Robert Mitchell (colored), violating election laws. Miircli term, 1U02. Territory r. AVatkins Jones, violating election law; Territory r. Melvin AV. ;\Iills, unlawfully selling merchandise; Territory r. Watkins Jones, violating election law; Territory"?'. Emanuel Vigil, violating election law; Territory r. Emanuel Vigil, Jose Roibal, James JNIackie, violating election law; Territory of New ^Mexico r. Robert Love, murder; Territory c. Robert Mitchell, violating election law; Territory v. William Allen and Jesse Stuart, burglary; Territory r. Thomas Wolly, alias Thomas Willoughbv (colored), murder; Territory /•. Ed. Sla'ughter, assault to do great bodily injury; Territory v. (ieorge Kascukatis, assault to nuu'der; Territory v. Ward \< . ^Nlurphey, forgery; Territory i\ J. E. Slaughter, assault to connnit great bodily injury; Territory v. Joseph Corredo, unlawfully discharging jjistol; Territory v. Joseph Cor- redo, unlawfullv carrying arms; Territory v. Ward W. Murphey, forgery; Territory r. George Carter and George Ilillei's, burglary; Territory r. Alexis R. Hubbard, jr., larceny; Territory v. Juan Nuanez, assault to connnit great bodily injury; Terri- tory w.'Lacey Everett, rape; Territory ?■. Lacey Everett, sodomy; Territory r. John Boardman, alias Jack Boardman, assault with deadly weapon; Territory r. John Braithwaite, assault with deadly weapon; Territory r. Pearline Cheatham, alias Pearline Goss. obtaining goods under false pretenses; Territory v. Emanuel Vigil, Jose Roibal, James Mckie, violating election law; Territory r. Andrew Morton, ]>er- jurv; Territory?'. Bias Trujillo, larceny; Territory v. Louis Miller, larceny; Territory ■V. Louis Miller, larceny; Territory v. Louis Miller, larceny; Territory v. Lacey Everett, sodomy; Territory r. Lacey Everett, sodomy; Territory v. Lacey Everett, rape. September term, 1902. Territory r. Walter Wade, murder; Territory v. John Wallace, abduction; Territory V. John Wallace, assault with pistol; Territory v. John Wallace, assault with intent to murder; Territory v. John Wallace, assault with pistol; Territory c. Jose Ortega, abduction; Territory v. Jose Ortega, assault while armed with deadly weapon; Ter- ritory V. John Wallace and Jose Ortega, abdnctionj Territory c. John Wallace and Jose "Ortega, assault with pistol; Territory r. Charles J. Lovvther, larceny from per- son; Territory r. Canuto Espinosa, assault with intent to kill; Territory r. George Sauer, assault with intent to murder; Territory v. George Saner, assault with pistol; Territory v. Juan Pacheco, unlawfully selling liquor; Territory v. Juan Pacheco, unlawfully selling liquor; Territory v. Silvero Gallegos, unlawfully selling liquor; Territory"?'. Silverio Gallegos, uidawfully selling liquor; TeiTitory ?■. Silverio Gallegos, assault while armed with deadly weajion; Territory v. Charles Arellano, assault while armed with deadly weapon; Territory?'. Silverio Gallegos and Juan Pacheco, unlaw- fully selling li(iuor; Territory ?•. Silverio Gallegos and Juan Pacheco, unlawfully sell- ing liquor. UNION COUNTY. IJd of indicimeMH returned by the grand juries of Union County, during the fall term of court 1900, andu}-) to the fall' term of court 1903. September term, 1900. Territory r. Trinidad Vigil, ai)peal; Territory r. Ricarcio Medina, forgery; Terri- tory r. Cosme Padilla, forgery; Ter'-itory r. Cecilio Ortega, murder; Territory v. Albino Sandoval, Francisco Mora, "larceny of cattle; Territory r. Estel)an Maes, forgery; Territory v. J. G. Adamson alias E". W. Wright, larceny; Territory r. Victor Alarid, assault with intent to murder; Territory r. Victor Alarid, assault with intent to kill; Territory ?■. Jose Garcia and Jose Tapia, larceny of cattle; Territory /•. Jose Torres, assault with intent to murdei; Territory?'. Ed. Austin, larceny of horses; Territory r. M. S. Brown, retailing liquor without license; Territory v. Jose Y. Rael, larceny of horses. 3farch term, 1901. Territory r. Madison Coppenbarger, Wm. X. Sherman, nun-der; Territory r. Gabriel Atencia, appeal; Territory v. J. F. Cowen, petldling without license; Ter- ritory V. J. F. Cowen, peddling without license; Territory v. J. F. Cowen, peddling 288 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. without license; Territoiy r. ]\L C-. Alexander alias BoV) Alexander, larceny of cattle; Territory r. M. C. Alexander alias Bob Alexander, lart-eny of cattle; Ter- ritory r. M. C. Alexander alias I)ol) Alexander, unlawfully branding cattle; Territory r. M. C. Alexander alias Bol) Alexander, defacing brands; Territory v. James S. .Terrell, driving cattle out of Territory without being inspected; Territory r. Jose F. Gomez, endjezzlement; Territory r. Julian Ramirez, uttering forged check. Sepfoiiher term, 1901. Territory v. George Tate, ])eddling without license; Territory r. Maurice Hauen, burglary; Territory v. John Young, unlawfully carrying arms; Territory v. Fred Alexander, assault to kill; Territory /■. Victoriano Tafoya, rape; Territory v. Jose Cornelio Gonzales, larceny of cattle. Marcli term, 1902. Territorv r. Jose Cornelio Gonzales, larceny of cattle; Territory c. Robert 8. ]\Ialey, larceny; Territor\^ v. Benito Anaya, assault to murder; Territory v. Jose Gornelio Gonzales, larceny of cattle; Territory r. G. W. Guyer and Romulo Padilla, mal- feasance in office; Territory v. G. W. Guyer, Romulo Padilla, malfeasance in office; Territory r. G. W. Guyer and Romulo Padilla, malfeasance in office; Territory v. Jose Cornelio (Tonzales, larceny of cattle; Territory r. Jose Cornelio Gonzales, unlaw- fully selling cattle; Territory e. Jose Cornelio Gonzales, unlawfully selling cattle. September term, 1902. Territory r. All)ert Jordan, carrying deadly weapons; Territory 'V. William Wal- droup, driving cattle from Territory without inspection; Territory v. Thomas Denny, carrying arms; Territory r. Louis Keeper, carrying arms; Territory v. Charles O. Kidd, carrying arms; Territory r. Juan Torino, Mathew ]\IcMains, John R. Guyer, Lola Keough, Louis Keeper, assault with pistol, etc.; Territory v. Charles O. Kidd, carrying arms; Territory v. All)ert Jordan, carrying arms; Territory v. Louis Keeper, carrying ai-ms; Territory v. Thomas Denny, carrying arms; Territory /'. William Gray, unlawfully discharging pistol; Territory v. John R. Guyer, eml^ezzlement: Territory v. Jcjhn R. Guyer, forgery; Territory v. S. O. Stewart, peddling without license; Territory v. William Burt, unlawfully carrying arms; Tei'ritory r. James S. Jerrell, obtaining signature under false pretenses; Territt)ry e. James S. Jerrell, unlawfully selling mortgaged property; Territory v. .Santiago Ortiz, criminal com- plaint filed by district attorney. MORA COrXTY. Lht of indictments returned h// the grand juries of Mora County from the term of court held in October, 1900, up to and including the term of court held in April, 1902, there being no term of court held in Mora Count >j in October, 1902. October, 1900. Territory /•. Donaciano Trujillo, assaulting wife; Territory v. Jacobo Branch, lar- ceny of cattle; Territory v. Adolfo ^I. ^fartinez, unlawfully selling sheep; Territory V. Severino Trujillo, unlawfully selling cattle. October term, 1901. Territory v. Guadalujie B. de Cordova; appeal, assault and battery; Territory v. Alberto Martinez, assault; Tei-ritory c. Rumaldo ^Martinez, assault: Territory r. Nico- las Lopez, larceny of horse; Territory r. Cruz Naranjo. assault: Territory r. P. J. Zeiniet, embezzlement; Territory r. Ambrosio ^Martinez, larceny of cattle; Territory r. Jose D. Herrera, dealing in merchandise without license; Territory v. Jacabo Branch, larceny of cattle; Territory r. T. C. Walker, larceny; Territory i\ Arturo Moya, larceny of horse; Territory v. Julian (ionzales y Baca, larceny. Aiird term, 1902. Territory v. Porfirio Garcia, larceny of cattle; Territory /•. Antonio Lopez, larceny of cattle; Territory r. Telesfor Jiminez, larceny of cattle; Territory r. Telesfor Jimi- nez, larceny of cattle; Territory v. Telesfor Jiminez, larceny of cattle; Territory v. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 239 Telesfor Jimiiiez, unlawfully killing cattle; Territory r. Telesfor Jiininez, larceny and killin^r cattle; Territory r. Teles^for Jiminez, unlawfully killing,' cattle; Territory r. Telesfor Jiminez, larceny of a horse; Territory /•. Telesfor Jiminez, unlawfully kill- ing cattle; Territory /•. Telesfor Jiminez, larceny of cattle; Territory /•. Telesfor Jimi- nez, larceny of cattle; Territory r. Telesfor Jiminez, larceny of horses; Territory v. Telesfor Jiminez, larceny of horse; Territory /'. Leandro Archuletta, appeal; Terri- tory r. Jose Brazil, appeal; Territory v. C. R. Walker, practicing medicine without license; Territory v. Nicolas Guiterrez, assault on wife; Territory c. Pablo (iallegos and Meliton Garcia, larceny from person; Territory v. Pal)lo (tallegos ami Meiiton Garcia, robbery from person; Territory r. Pablo Gallegos, robbery from person; Ter- ritory ('. PabloGallegos, robbery from person; Territory r. Meliton Garcia, robbery from person; Territory r. Meliton Garcia, larceny from person; Territory r. Tiburcio Romero y Cordova, rape; Territory r. Simon Barela, rape. GUADALIPE COUNTY. Li>s. LUNA COUNTY. J. E. Robertson, W. W. Robertson, Dolores Moss, Ella Gyney, Francis U. Duti', D. L. Call, Mrs. A. J. Smith, Annie Scarliorough, E. H, Cox, Lillie Billingslea, Rosa Connelly — 11. m'kinley county. John Hodgson, Fannie McNulty, Gabriel Zaczinski, Martina Ortiz, Leon Smith, R. R. Larkin. Miss" Re1)ecca Brown. Miss Addie Clay- ton, Miss Elizabeth Mclntire, Miss Helen McNallan, Miss Mary Murphy, :\lrs. E. C. Smith— 12. MORA COUNTY. B. Gallegos, H. B. Baca, Casimiro Trujillo, Miguel Martinez, Eugenic Romero, Sebastian Escjuibel, Pedro A. Cordova, Margarette Graney, Georgie Murray, D. Pacheco, Abel Sandoval, Albino Maes, P. V. Lobato, M. Tavior. Sister Angelica, Sister Ann Joseph, Laura Padilla, M. N. Velastiuez, M. B. Martinez, Pearl E. Price, Margarette C. Cor- dova, G. Gallegos, Agustin Vigil y Valdez, R. Esquibel, J. H. Parker, B. Sandoval, Sabino Garcia, Tomas Trujillo, Marceliuo Pino, O. J. Flores, Margarita C. Martinez, Antonio A. Lucero, Juanita Gallegos, J. G. Leyba, Esteban Garcia, W. M. Tucker, C. Padilla, M. Mar- tinez, Leandro Martinez — 39. OTERO COUNTY. A. J. Smith, A. F. Hickson, Mrs. A. J. Hollars, T. H. Shannon, Mr. J. ]M. Blazer, Lillian Johnson, Harrv HefHeman, Lizzie H. Ver- den. Alien Blacker, J. W. Nations, Mrs.' A. J. Smith, E. H. Cox, S. C. Bennett— 13. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 243 KIO ARRIBA COUNTY. Francisco Kivera, Eliseo Lujan, Jose Ttilache, Reyes Ortega. P. A. Domingues, Ignacio Cordova, Pedro Pacheco, Henry ]McKinzie. Mi.s« C. Montoya. Frank L. Galle.s,. J. A. Velasquez. Miss C. Jaraniillo. E. Jaraniillo", Eliseo Maestas, D. Archuleta. S. Chavez, A. M. Joseph, Frank P. Chavez, Mrs. E. R. Valdez. J. L. Montoya, Miss Call, Eda Stcll)erger. Felix D. Ortega, Bernardo Sanchez, Miss F. Ortega, Placido Sanchez, E. Gonzales. Solodgren E. Jacquez. P. F. Salazar, D. M. Bi-own, Aniado Sanchez, S. Roybal. F. Montano, R. Serna, Roma Atencio, J. V. Miera, Manuel Borrego, Julian Trujillo, Eugenio Mar- tinez, Elias Galleg-os, W. H. Shupe, PI Espinoza— i6. SAN JUAN COUNTY. John Frazer, Hattie C. Butler, Maud Warring, C. O. Gromet, E. T. Israel, Clarence Wilson, J. Arrowsmith. Louis H. Hallett, Mrs. Bryce, A. G. Goniett, Delia Martin, Minnie Elmer, Mrs. Allen, Miss White- head, Frank Paulson, E. Black, O. L. Waite, Rossie Draper, Violet Draper, E. Wise, J. W. Henry, Mrs. Scott Morris — 22. SAN MIGUEL COUNTY. E. L. Hewett, Richard H. Powell. James G. McNarry, T. D. A. Cockerell, David L. Arnold, W. D. Givens, A. M. Chapman, L. C. Butcher, Eleanor M. Hill, Grace D. Dickenson, May G. Ingersoil, Virginia Hendran. E. Adkins, Maggie J. Bucher, Catalina Duro, Nellie Steen, Bessie Cavanaugh, Nellie Papin, Lena Johnson, Allice M. O'Brien, Cornelia Murray, Georgia Murray, Winifi-ed O'Brien, Anna Papin. Margarette Graney, Charles B. Barker, Tereza Lopez, Stella J., Bernard, Francisca Lucero, Venceslao Romero, Enrique Armijo, A. Zalas, Sister Tereza Maria, Sister Thais, Portirio Gallegos, A. A. Gal- legos, Celso Jaramillo, Sixto Garcia, Placido Beltran. Enrique Marcs, Aurelia Ulibarri, Eutimio Gallegos, J. B. Gallon, J. I. Garcia, Adelia Gonzales, H. Garcia, M. A. Guerin, Juanita Abeytia, Isidro Trujillo. P. R. Lopez, Anastacio Gallegos, Gregorio Esi^uibel, Nicolas Esquibel, Apolonio Sena, Cicilio M. Quintana, Lola M. Romero, G. Ortiz, F. Sanchez. Frank Vour, Everardo Armijo, Lena Johnson, V idal M. Flores, Jose Varela, Pablo de Herrera, Francisca Sena, Sixto Armijo, Manuel Silva, Melecio Lucero, Jose F. Gonzales, Martina Martinez, Jose M, Sena, Juan Gar(;ia y Gonzales, Teofilo Madrid — 74. SANTA FE COUNTY. L. M. Larson, Mrs. L. M. Larson, R. R. Grant, Grace B. Hall, Daisy Patterson, Berta Rodgers, Myrtle Boyle, Mrs. II. L. Dunning, J. A. Wood, Louisa Schnepple. Fannie McNulty. May Sullivan. Miss A. S. Bundy, Mrs. D. C. Fletcher, Ella M. Berger. Margarita John- son. Florence Gilderslee\'e, ]\Iarv M. ]\Iarsh, Virginia G. Call, Camilo Padilla, E. B. Glidden, Emelia Gutterman, Rine Sargent, C. A. Lin- derman, S. T. Smith, Flavio Silva, Elizabeth R. Cross, Jose Ortiz y Baca, M. Tessie Call, Valdera Slaughter, C. P. Ortiz. Fred Lopez, Sixto Garcia, Juan R. Ortiz, Jose F. Gonzales, Catharine Halloran — 46. 244 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. SIERKA COUNTY. Maud I. Anderson, Edna Anderson, Nona Murphy — o. SOCORRO COUNTY. C. R. Keyes, F. C. Lincoln, E. A. Drake, Julia F. Atkinson, Oliver K. Smith, A. W. Fitch, Sister Mary Basil. Sister Angelica, Miss Mammie Cortisy, Russell Howell, Julius Campridon. C. P. Armijo, Manuel Trujillo', Martin Lopez, G. Vioil, P. A. Marcelino. Miss L. Morris, Mrs. Carlota Savles, Miss A. M. Randall, J. M. White, Miss L. Millard, Miss McCoach, C. C. Torres, Apolonio Valle, S. Baca, M. Carrillo, Mrs. R. G. Mosse, J. N. Romero, L. Arag-on, Julian Trujillo, Mrs. E. M. Bartelle, J. S. Baca, David Flores. C. Jojola, Seferino Montoya, P. A. Vio-il. R. Gonzales, E. M. Chaves, E. Flores, Abelino Lopez^ Leopoldo Contreras, Miss Laura Green. Gregorio Abeyta, Rafael Pena, J. G. Davis, J. D. Carrillo, D. E. Bera, C. H. Kirkpatrick, Miss Kirkpatrick, A. L. Heister — 52. TAOS COUNTY. E. D. Seai-s, Collins Dickson, Richard Oakley, Mildred Newby, Maud Hamblin, Bertha Hamblin. Sister Adelaide, Sister Divina, Sister Birchman, J. D. Martinez, D. Martinez. J. J. Vigil, G. Martinez, Pablo Baca, Ferdinand Me vers, T. A. Rivera, Edward Bowman, Man- uel Martinez, Alfred Trujillo, Adolph Espinoza. Deltinia Sanchez, Felix Trujillo, Nicolas Anaya, Amador Hernandez, F. A. Valdez— 2.5. UNION COUNTY. G. L. Marsh, F. P. Cams. Ida F. Love. L. ]\L Smith, James Ellison, Mrs. James Ellison, Luciano Castillo, Miss Julia Barron, Malaquias Baca, J. J. Garcia. Miss F. Martinez, Q. Montoya, Rafael Sisneros, 11. Lopez, P. P. Branch, Petra Gallegos, Francisco Baca, Sixto Garcia, Manuel Martinez, Margarita T. de Karanjo. J. Quintana, Miss J. Bar- ron, Benito Cordova, Miss M. Thonipson, M. D. Abeytia— 25. VALENCIA COUNTY. Fannie F. Graves, Henr\- J. Carson, Daniel Romero. -1. D. Cordova, Bentio Otero, Trinidad Otero, Luciano Glares, Refugia Sanchez. Vic- toriana Conelly, David Lujan, J. M. Samosa, J. H. Gallos, Pablo Jaraniillo, Valentin Candelaria, Telesfor Mirabal, Jossie Mirabal, J. K. Ri\-era, Jose M. Torres. Lorenzo Otero, Sixto Lujan. O. B. San- 4ihez, M. Chaves. Francisco Rubi. David Lucero — 25. Total, 622. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 245 EXHIBIT C. Territory of New Mexico, Countij of Taos: LIfit of jieiil jurors selected to serve for the June, A. D. 1901, tena of the district court in and for the county of Tuos. Name. Town. Precinct. 1. Jose Jesus Vig'il Ranehos s 5 3. Squire Hartt, jr 4. John Cummins 3 Red River Citv ... .... 5. James Riff do ; Red River. 5 7. Manuel Miora Prado 5 8. Jose Aca>i< i Suaso Ranchitos de Abajo 2 do 2 10. David Velarde ... Ranehos 2 11. EM|ui]iulo Martinez Chimasal 9 do 9 3 14. Jose D. Martinez . ...do 3 5 16. J . D. Morris Tres Piedras 15 17. Manuel Lnjan .... . . Llano . ... Llano. 18. Manuel Medina Arroyo Seco 5 19. Manuel R. Martinez do 5 20. Chas. Weber Red River Citv Red River. 21. Concepcion Dominguez . .... Chimasal . . 9 22. W. A. Robbins Valdez 5 10 24. Pedro R. Trujillo Taos 1 We. the undersigned commissioners, dul}" appointed, selected, and sworn to select 24 qualitied persons to serve as petit jurors for June, A. D. 1901, term of the district court in and for the count}' of Taos, Territorv aforesaid, do hereby certify that we have on this 11th day of May, A. D. 1901, duly selected the persons named in the foreg-oing- list for the said June, A. D. 1901, term, the said persons being duly qualitied to serve as such petit jurors. William Fraser. W. M. Adair. Juan Nepomoceno (his x mark) Martinez. Witness to mark: Frank Staplin. N, H. Gillott. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 11th day of May, A. D. 1901. [seal.] Frank Staplin, Notary Pahlic. Territory of New Mexico. Counti/ of Taos: 1, A. M. Bergere, clerk of the district court of the first judicial dis- trict of the Territory of New Mexico in and for the county of Taos, do hereby certify that the above and foregoing is a true, correct, and complete copy of the list of petit jurors selected to serve for the June, A. D. 1901, term of the district court in and for said count}^ of Taos. In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and the seal of said court, at my office in the citv of Santa Fe, county of Santa Fe, and Territory aforesaid, this llrth day of November, A. D. 1902. [seal.] a. M. Bergere, Clerk. 246 NEW statp:h(>od bill. Territory of New Mexico, Coavty of Tuos: List of grand jurors selected to serve for the June, A. I). 1901, term of tlie district court in and for the county of Taos. Name. Town. Precinct. Taos 1 2. Wm. McKean Red River City Red River. 3. R. W. Tanrtv 4 E S Redrline: . (^ue.'ita Questa. 4 5. Pablo ( isniTO'^ Ranehitos de Arriba 5 Ranches 3 8. 0. H. Stanley Taos 1 10 Llano Llano. 11, Silviano Lucero Arroyo Hondo 6 4 13. .F. P. Wright Arroyo Seco 5 10 Taos 1 16. Santiago Romero Canon de Taos 1 Santa Barbara We, the undersigned conimissioners duly appointed, selected, and sworn to select 17 qualitied persons to serve as grand jurors for the June, A. D. 1901, term of the district court in and for the county of Taos, do hereby certify that we have on this 11th day of May, A. D. 1901, selected the persons named in the foregoing list for the said June, A. D. 1901, term, the said persons lieing qualilied to serve as such grand jurors. William Fraser. W. M. Adair. Juan Nepomoceno (his x mark) Martinez. Witness as to mark: Frank Staplin. N. H. Gillot. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 11th day of May, A. D. 1901. [seal.] Frank Staplin, Notary Public. Territory of New Mexico, Coiinfi/ of Bto Arriha: List of grand jurors selected to serve for the May, A. D. 1901, term of the district court in and for tlie county of Rio Arriba. Name. Town. Precinct No. Manuel Valdez y Vigil Tierra Amarilla 17 11 Silviano Roibal 2 9 13 Antonio Martinez v Cordova . Quemado 6 8 Juan Isidro Martinez 4 Juan A. Garcia Ojo Caliente 9 Cebolla 12 do 12 Antonio A. (iallegos Vallecitos 14 Fernandez Martinez 18 14 11 >Iaximinii) Duran .... . . Los Pinos ]5 David Martinez, jr Velarde 25 NEW statp:ho()D bill 247 We, the undersigned comnii.ssioners duly appointed, selected, and sworn to select 17 duly qualified persons to serve as grand jurors for the May, A. D. 19()1, term of the district court in and foi- the county of Rio Arriba and Territory aforesaid, do hereby certify that we have, on this loth day of April, A. D. 1901, selected the persons named in the foregoing list, the said persons having been qualified to serve as such grand jurors. Victor Valdez. ToMAS Gonzales. W. G. Sargent. Territory of New Mexico, County of Rh Arriha: LiM of 2>dit jurors selected to serve for the May, A. D. 1901, term of the district court in and for the county of Rio Arriba. Name. Town. Tranquilino Serrano Coyote Francisco Durant ' Tierra Amarilla . . . . Lucio Garcia ! Parkview Jose Onecimo Valrtes Tierra Amanlla . . . . Necolas Martin Farkview Martin Ramon Martin i Tierra Amarilla Jose Rami m Ciarcia Espanola Agustin Martin Abiquiu Felipr I. Guillen | Alcalde Cesario ( TallcRos i Abiquiu Salvador Romero Las Truchas Feli.x J. Lucero ' Elrito Miguel A. Trujillo j do Filadelfio Montano I Cebolla Faustin Maes ! Canjilon Manuel (iriet Donaciano Salazar . . , Julian Atencio Meregildo Jaramillo . Miguel Martin Antonio Gurule Epimenio Chacon Donaciano Gallegos. Ramon Jaramillo Embiido . Canones Cebolla Elrito Espanola Gallina Cebolla Elrito Rio de Chama . Precinct No.— 20 17 18 17 18 17 7 11 2 11 5 10 10 12 16 1 23 12 10 7 24 12 10 3 We, the undersigned commissioners duh* appointed, selected, and sworn to select 24 qualified persons to serve as petit jurors for the May, A. D. 1901, term of the district court in and for the county of Rio Arril)a, Territorv aforesaid, do herel\v certify that we have, on this 15th day of April, A. D. 1901, selected the persons named in the foregoing list, the said persons being qualified to serve as such petit jurors. Victor Valdez. ToMAS Gonzales. W. G. Sargent. 248 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Territory of New Mexico, County of Rio Arriba: Lht of (jrand jurors selected to serve for the May, A. D. 1902, term of the district court in and for the county of Rio Arriba. Juan Romero Santia.trii Martinez ... Secumliiid Martinez Theixloni Rodriguez Pablo Lurcro Daniel Trujillo Julian Ateneio Dionicio Archuelta . Juan C. Gurule Bartolo Martinez Donaeiano Chacon.. Felijie (Jarcia Soteni .Vrchuleta ... Teodorc) Serrano Pedrii (.^nintana Andres Herrera (De) Jose Rafael Mestas . . Town. Embudo Truchas Quemado Espanola Ojo Caliente El Rito Cebolla Petaca Vallecitos Ortiz Canjilon Teirra Amarilla Park View Coyote Canones Chamita Gallina Precinct No.— 6 7 9 10 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 •20 22 8 24 We. the undersigned comnii.ssioners. duly appointed and sworn to select 17 qualified persons to serve as orand jurors for the May. A. D. 19<>2, term of the district court in and for the county of Rio Arriba, do hereby certify that we have on this 21st day of April, A. D. 1902, selected the persons named in the foregoing list for the said Ma}^ A. D. 1902, term, the said persons being duly qualified to serve as such grand jurors. B. C. Hernandez. Venceslao Jaramillo. PoLicARPio Lopez. Territory of New Mexico, County of Rio Arrlha: List of petit jurors selected to serve for the May, A. D. 1902, term of the district court in and J or the county of Rio Arriba. Name. Manuel Martinez y Ruibal Pedro Maes Luciano Salazar Franciscc > E. Vigil Creeencio Archuelta Reyes Trujillo Candido Salazar y Garcia . . Melq>iiades Martinez Donanciano Campos Francisco Vigil Jesus Maria Gonzales Jose Vivian Suaso Casimiro Montoya Rosendo Moya Buenaventura Martinez . . . Jose Damian Giron Policarpio Chaves Jose Ulibarri Tireio Gomez Nicolas Martinez Juan Andres Gomez Manuel Salazar Rumaldo Montoya Henrv McKenzie Town. Embudo Chamita ....do Rio Chama do Chimayo Espanola , Chamita Ojo Caliente El Rito do , Abiquiu do do Petaca Vallecitos do Tierra Amarilla do Park View Lumberton Canones , Velarde Los Ranchitos . Precinct No. 1 2 2 3 3 4 7 8 9 10 10 11 11 11 13 14 14 17 17 18 21 23 25 NEW STATEHOOD HILL. 249 We, the undei'fsioned eoiiinii.ssioiiers, duly appointed and sworn to select 2-1: qualified persons to serve as petit jurors for the May, A. L). 1902. term of the district court in and for the county of Rio Arriba, do hereby certify that we have on this 21st day of April, A. 1). 1902, selected the persons named in the foregoing- list for the said May, A. I). 1902, term, the said persons being qualified to serve as such petit jurors. B. C. Hernandez. Venceslao Jaramillo. PoLicARrio Lopez. Territory of New Mexico, County of Scm Juan: List of petit jurora selected to serve for the October, A. D. 1902, term of the district court i)i. and for the county of San Juan. Name. Walter Van Bruddenboek Frank Mir E. D. Duncan J.T.Green J.B.Austin Ed Wise W.L. Paddock William Thomas H. H.De Luche W. L. Kennedy J. C. Carson Larkin Beck Geo. W. Griffin Robert Townsend Geo. W. Adair Thomas Gail Pedro Montano Manuel Prado Juan A. Jacquez William Gilmore Nicanor Chavez Luis Munoz Ed Foster Frank W. Blackmer Town. Pine River. ....do Aztec ....do do do La Plata . . . do Fruitland . . do Precinct No. Farmington do do do Bloomfield.. do Largo do do Flora Vista . Blanco do Cedar Hill . . do We, the undersigned commissioners, duly appointed, selected, and sworn to select from the jury list of the county of San Juan 24 quali- fied persons to serve as petit jurors for the October, A. D. 1902. term of the district court in and for the county of San Juan, do hereby cer- tify that we have on this 2Tth day of September, A. D. 1902, selected the persons named in the foregoing list for the said term, the said persons being duly qualified to serve as such petit jurors. George A. Tinker, C. S. Cameron, Leonard Boat, Co/mnissioners. 250 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Territory of New Mexico, County of San Juan: List of grand jurors selected to serve for the October, A. D. 1902, term of the district cour in and for the county of San Juan. Niime. Town. Precinct No. B. A. Rodriguez Pine River 1 Price Walters 2 A. R. Springer do 2 A. Villiuan do .. . 2 Cliiirk's I'rico La Plata ... 3 Mike Real . . do 3 J. E. McCartv Fruitland do 4 S. H. McGee 4 D. J. Craig Farmington 5 M. W. Milligan do 5 Jas. T. Fay .. .do 5 John Tennev Bloomfield . . 6 M. S. Pachaco M. F. Mullarkv 8 Reuben Hefflin do 8 J. Sixto Baca Blanco Cedar Hill.... 9 Frank Robbing 10 We, the undersigned commissioners, duh* appointed, selected, and sworn to select from the juiy list of the count}^ of San Juan 17 qualified persons to serve as grand jurors for the October, A. D. 190:], term of the district court in and for the said county, do hereby- certify- that we have on this 27th day of September, A, D. 1902, selected the persons named in the foregoing list for the said October, A. D. 1902. term, the said persons being duly qualified to serve as such grand jurors. George A. Tinker, C. S. Cameron, Leonard Boat, Commissioners. Territory of New Mexico, County of Santa Fe: List of grand jurors selected to serve for the September, A. D. 1902, term of the distric court in and for the county of Santa Fe. Name. Town. Precinct No. Ciriaco Rael Frank Williams 20 Jose Lopez 11 John Bell Sixto Garcia 3 L. A. Hughes do 17 C. W. Dudrow do .. .. 4 G. W. Hickox do 3 Soldinnii Sjiitz . .do .. 18 Simnn Xu^liaum do 17 Antiiiiii) ( )rtiz 8 12 Ji )se .\ mad( > Lucero 16 Juan M.Archuleta 15 Rafael Garcia do 15 Frank Bond 16 Victor Ortega 14 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 251 Wo, the undersio-ned connni.ssioner.s, duly appointed, selected, and sworn to select from the jury list of the county of Santa Fe 17 (piali- tied persons to serye as g-rand jurors for the September, A. 1). ]H<>2, term of the district court in and for the county of Santa Fe, do hereljy certify that we haye on this Tth day of August, A. D. 1902, selected the persons named in the foregoing list for the said September, A. D. 1902, term, the said persons bein^g duly qualitied to serye as si^ch grand jurors. H. B. Caktwright, J. B. Mayo. Celso Lopez, Commimoyiers. Territory of New Mexico, County of Santa Fe: List of petit jurors selected to serve for the September, A. D. 1902, term of the district court in and for the county of Santa Fe. Precinct No. Guillcrmo Salazar Santa Fe I 18 Tomas Gurule Canoneito ! j^ Pedro Martinez Golden ' 11 George Smith do 11 Juan Sanchez [ do 11 Daniel Wright I do l^ George E. Bailev ' Cerrillos _( Luis Moya Santa Fe ^ Jose Dolores Garcia do 2 William H. Kerr do I 1' Hilario Apodaca do : o Jesus M. Romero do 1 w Feliz Lopez do i -J Santana Herrera do ' 17 Francisco Ortiz v Baca do 2 Santiago C. de Baca do j 1^ Juan Manuel Martinez do ' If Epimenio Maestas Santa Cruz i lo Jesus Maria Montoya Pojoaque i l Julian Ortiz do ' 1 Candido Duran Santa Fe 4 Daniel Carter Glorieta i l-i D. M. Quintana , Lam y - George Davis : Gahsteo ; » We. the undersigned commissioners, duly appointed, selected, and sworn to select from the jury list of the county of Santa Fe, 2-1 quali- tied persons to serye as petit jurors for the September, A. D. 1902. term of the district court in and for the county of Santa Fe, do hereby certify that we haye on this Tth day of August. A. D. 1902, selected the persons named in the foregoing "list for the said September. A. D. 1902, term, the said persons being duly qualitied to serye as such petit jurors. H. B. Cart-wright, J. B. Mayo, Celso Lopez, Commission ei'S. 252 NEW STATEHOOD BILL." Terkitoky of New Mexico, County of Santa F(^: List of grand jurors selected to serve for the March, A. D. 1002, term of the district court. H. Pacheco Diimian Montoya Samilo Padilla y Garcia Antonio Lnjan Leandro KivtTa J. G. Schnniann Jesus M. Baca Daniel M. Jones Pedro Lopez Precinct No. Name. C.C.Green G. B. Hendricks . . Pablo Gallegos . . . Manuel Naranjo . Albino Herrera. .. Eulijo Martinez .. Benedito Naranjo David Baca Precinct No. We, the under.siyned eomnii.ssioners, duly appointed, selected, and sworn to select 17 qualitied persons to serve as grand jurors for the March, A. D. 11M)2, term of the district court in and for the county of Santa Fe, do hereb}' certify that we have on this 11th day of Feb- ruary, A. D. 1902, selected the persons named in the foregoing list for the said March, A. D. 1902, term, the said persons being quali- fied to serve as such grand jurors. Aethur Seligmax. Louis D. Sugar. Benito Lujan. Territory of New Mexico, County of Santa Ft- : List of petit jurors selected to serve for the March, A. I). 1902, term of the district court in arid for tJie county of Santa Fe. Name. Atanacio Vigil , Cristobal Rivera Julian IIcrriTa J.M. |;..l:,i> Muiia^ Sandoval Nestor Koniero Nicolas Lofcz Ross Gritlith W.M.Swyres J.N.Carley Benito Alarid Francisco Rivera y Gonzale; Precinct No. Name. Luciano Ortiz Thomas Griego Vicfiit'' K. Koyiial.. Anti'iiio llci r-ra . .. Tom:is lloylsil Narciso Lujan Nestor Sena y Ortiz Daniel Romero Elijio Madrid Anecleto Contreras. N. Salmon , John Dendahl Precinct No. We. the undersigned commissioners, duly appointed and sworn to select 24 qualified persons to serve as petit jurors for the March, A. D. 1902. term of the district court in and for the county of Santa Fe, do herel)v certif}^ that we have on this 11th day of February, A. D. 1902, selected the persons named in the foregoing list for the said March, A. D, 1902, term, the said persons .being qualified to serve as such petit jurors. Benito Lujan. Louis D. Sugar. Arthur Seligman. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 253 PETIT JURORS. Aztec, N. Mex, March H, 1000. Hon A. M. Bergere. C'lerl of tlie Dldi'ict Court, First Judicial District of New Mexico: This is to certify that the followino-named persons have been this day selected by the undersigned jury commissioners of San -hian Count}^ to serve at the ensuing April term of the district court as members of the petit jury, to wit: 1. Herman K. Rathjen. 2. Thomas F. Murphy. 3. Foster Bhicklock. " 4. M. Salvado Pacheco. 5. George T. Brett. 6. Peyton Skith clay of November, A. 1). 1901, we have selected the persons named in the foregoing list, the said persons being duly qualified to serve as such grand jurors. Antonio Ma. Borkego. EuGENio Gonzales. Tobias Lujan. EXHIBIT D. Office of United States Marshal, District of New Mexico, Alhuquerque^ N. Ilex.^ Novemher 21, 1902. I, C. M. Fo raker. United States marshal for the district of New Mexico, hereby certify that the inclosed papers enumerated below are true and correct copies of the originals now on file in my office. Form 14, account current fees of jurors, July 1, 1902. to Septeml)er 30. 1902. Form 14, account current fees of jurors, April 1, 1901, to June 30, 1902. Form 29, voucher 6, fees of jurors, quarter ending December 31, lltUU. Form 29, voucher 3, fees of jurors, quarter ending December 31, 1900. Form 29, voucher 2, fees of jurors, quarter ending December 31, 1900. Form 29, voucher 7, fees of jurors, quarter ending December 31, 1900. Form 29, voucher 4, fees of jurors, i^uarter ending December 31, 11)00. Form 29, vouchers 1, 5, and 6, fees of jurors, quarter ending June 30, 1901. Form 29, vouchers 1 and 2, fees of jurors, quarter ending Septem- ber 30, 1902. Total. 12 items. C. M. FORAKER, United States 2faisJ((d. Form No. 14. The United Stales In account current with C. M. Foraker, United Slates mmshcd fur the district of] New Mexico, for fees of jurors in attendance upon the United States courts during the period from Aprd 1 to June 30, 1901. Dr. Cr. Vouch- ers. Dollars. Dollars. To disbursements as per ab- stract ^ i' S3, 124. 60 By balance due the United States per last account, for fees of jurors . Bv draft of the United States treas- urer, dated April 25, 1901 S3, 683. 55 Paid petit jurors Deposited to credit of treas- urerof United States June •'0 1901 2, 000. 00 2, riOO. 00 To balance due the United States 5, 024. 60 58.95 5, 683. 55 5, 6!S3. 55 250 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. District of New Mexico, ss: C. M. Foraker, marshal of the Unite'l States for said district, l^eing duly sworn, deposes and says tliat it appears from the orders of court that the persons named in the vouchers referred to in the above account severally attended as jurors at the term above named, and that they wer eentitled to the sums opposite their respective names in the -s^ouchers, for attendance and travel; and he further says that said sums have lieen paid to them, respectively, in lawful money, in pursuance of the order or orders of court. C. M. Foraker, Marshal. Sworn and subscril)ed to this 17 day of July, 1901, l^efore me. Fred. B. McKeehax, Notary Puhlic. Indorsed: Form No. 14. No. 1. Account current. Dist. of New Mexico. C. M. Foraker, U. S. marshal. Fees of jurors from April 1st, 1901, to June 30th, 1901. Note. — The period to be indicated above is that during which the expenses were incurred or the services rendered. Approved at Albuq. July 20, 1901. Form No. 14. The United States in account current with C. M. Foraker, United States marshal for the district of Neiv Mexico, for fees of jurors in attendance upon the United States courts during the period from July 1, 1902, to Sept. 30, 1902. Dr. Cr. Vouch- ers. Dollars. ! By balance due the United^ States Dollars. To disbursements: Paid .irrand jnrorslstdis- 1 2 3 4 1,283.25 1, 369. 35 465. 40 422. 55 Bv draft of the United States Treas- 1 urer, dated .Tul v 17, 1902. No. 273. . . By draft of the United States Treas- urer, dated Aui:. •'). V.wi. No. 417 ... By draft of tlic I'liitiMl states Trea.s- urer, dated Sept. 27, 1902 Paid yietit jurors 1st dis- trict (■■lurt 2, 500. 00 Paid ,i;raiid jurors 2d dis- 1, 500. 00 I'aid petit jurors 2d dis- 4,000.00 i To balance due tlie United States 3, 540. 55 3, 959. 45 7, 500. 00 7,500.00 District of New Mexico, 8.s'.- C. M. Foraker, marshal of the United States for said district, being duly sworn, deposes and says that it appears from the orders of court that the ])ersnns named in the vouchers referred to in the above account severally attended as jurors at the term above named, and that they were entitled to the sums opposite their respective names in the vouchers, for attendance jukI travel; and he further says that said sums have been paid to them, respectively, in lawful money, in ])nrsuance of the order or orders of court. C'. ]\I. Foraker, Marshal. Sworn and sul)scril>ed to this 1st day of (3ctol>er, before me. Fred. B. ^NIcKeehax, Notary Public. Second District of New Mexico, .<<.v In the United States district court for said district, at a term thereof liegun and held at All)uquerque, on the ■ day of . Present: The Honorable Benj. S. Baker, judge, the following order was made and entered of record, to wit: Whereas C. M. Foraker, United States marshal, has rendered to this court an account of his disbursements for fees of jurors in attendance upon the United States courts during the ]ieriod from July 1, 1902, to Sept. 30, 1902, with the vouchers and items thereof, and in presence of , United States attorney, has proved, on oath, to the satisfaction of the court, that the disl)ursements charged have been fully ]iaid in lawful money: and whereas said charges appear to be just and according to law. KEW STATEHOOD BILL. 257 It is hereby ordered that tlie «ud ac-count, aniountinji to three thousand live hundred forty dollars and fifty-live cents, be, and the same is hereby, approved. The above is a true copv from the record of an order made by said court on the day of October, 1902. " Witnesss my hand and the seal of said court this day of October, 1902. , Clerk. (Indorse g OS 1 < H. Sandoval Miles. Nov. 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29. Nov. 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29. Nov. 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 26, 27, 28, 29. Nov. 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 20, 21. 22, 23, 24, 26, 27, 28, 29. Nov. 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 26, 27, 28, 29. Nov. 26, 27, 28, 29 . . Nov. 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29. 1 2 ""2 19 20 138.00 40 nn 30 112 $4.50 16.80 L. Romero LasColonias Las Vegas Las Vegas Las Vegas Las Vegas Chaperito Wm. N. Rosenthal... i I61 ^9 nn H. Lorenzen 15 15 4 20 30.00 30.00 8.00 40.00 Chas. Tamme D. Winternitz A. Almazar 30 E 120 18.00 Total 377 754.00 971 1,456.65 District op New Mexico, ss.: I, Secundino Romero, clerk of the fourth judicial district court of the district of New by the court to pay the several above-named the amounts set opposite their names, (Indorsed:) Triplicate. Form No. 29. Voucher No. 6. District of New Mexico T,as Vegas, N. M., during the quarter ending Dec. 31, 1900. $950.65. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 261 the dlMrict of Nev Mexico dnriiKj the quarter ending December 31, 1900, sitting , 6 Mesilla Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 La Luz I Oct. 1, 2, 3, 4, .5 Santa Rita : Oct. 1,2,3,4,5 Anthony ' Oct. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Werd..'. Oct. 1,2,3,4,5 Garfield Oct. 1, 2, 3, 4, Chamborino i Oct. 1, 2, 3, 4, Werd I Oct. 1,2, 3, 4, .6... ,6... ,6... ,6... .5,6, 5,6, 5,6, Las Cruces Mesilla do do Hatch Mesilla . Mesilla •. Lascruces Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 .. Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5,6.. Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.. Oct. 2, 3, 4, .5, 6 . . Oct. 1,2, 3, 4, 5, 6.. Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 . Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.. Mesilla ' Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 . Mesilla j Oct. 1, 2, 3, 4, .5, 6 ...... . NW Paraje i Oct. 1,2, 3, 4, .5, 6...! 4| 00 30 $4.50 8.00 6.00:. 2.00! 6.00. 2.00 2.00. 2.00. 2.001 6.00 10.00 10.00 10.00 22.00 18.00 14.00 20.00 16.00 14.00 16.00 160 10.00 4 10. 00; 4 10. OOl 4 16.00.... 10.001 4 10.00 4 10.00 10.00 12.00 20.00 320 .60 .90 .60 14.40 5.70 80 12.00 30 4.50 1.05 125 18. 75 .60 .60 15.00 Jose Camunes was paid one day by mistake, and the second check was drawn to District of New Mexico, ss: T, James P. Mitchell, clerk of the court of the third district of New Mexico, do court to pay the several grand jurors above named the amounts set opposite their [se.\l.] (Signed) (Indorsed:) Triphcate. Form No. 29. Voucher No 3. District of New Mexico, at Lascruces, N. Mex., during the quarter ending December 31, 1900. $518.30. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 203 Form, No. 29. district of New Mexico during the quarter endinr/ December 31, 1900, Kitting at Las N. Mex. United States marshal for the district of New Mexico, the sums set opposite our 3 o a < 03 o o H Signatures of payees. Witnesses to marks. Paid by check. No. Date. Name of deposi- tory. 66 220 138 12 329 $3.30 11.00 6.90 .60 16.45 $7.80 15. 05 6.90 .90 16.45 .60 • $13. 80 23.05 12. 90 2.90 22.45 2.60 2.00 2.00 2.90 6.00 10.00 10.00 10. 60 49.30 37.00 16.30 44.90 23.80 17.45 47.65 10.60 10.60 10.60 10.60 19.80 10.60 10.60 10.00 10.60 12.60 44.10 J. J. Garcia J. E. Foster 251 252 253 255 256 260 f 263 1 261 262 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 1900 Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. Oct. 1 1 1 1 1 2 3 3 3 5 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 First National Bank, Albu- querque. Do. Do. P Melendres Do. Do. R. Taylor Do. IJ. (his X mark) J Camune. J. (his X mark) Jaramillo. H. B. Lane [•P. Avondale B. B. Ownley... 1 Do. .90 Do. Do. Dick Seligman Do. .Icsus Silva, jr Do, .60 27. 30 19.00 2.30 24. 90 7.80 3.45 31.65 .60 .60 .60 .GO 3.80 .60 .60 Howard Guion ... Do. 258 266 46 258 60 48 258 12.90 13.30 2.30 12.90 3.30 2.40 12.90 .lesus Borenda Do. Do. Do. 1) L Stephens Do. E Madrid Do. Elifiinso Lopes ... Do. Juan (liisxiuark) de Dio Telles. Ramon (his x mark) Salazar. Anastaco (his x mark) Montoya. F. (his X mark) Garcia. Manuel (his x mark) Balles. Victor (his x mark) Duran. Nicanor Guerra . . D. Seligman D. Seligman D. Seligman D. Seligman D. Seligman D. Seligman Do. Do. Do. 1 Do. Do. 76 3.80 Do. Do. Eloy (his X mark) , Nicanor Guerro. Lucero. Roman (his x D. Seligman mark) Lucero. A. (his X mark) D. Seligman 291 Oct. 1 292 Oct. Do. Do. .60 .60 24.10 293 294 297 Oct. Oct. Oct. Do. Lucero. Roman Bermudes Do. 182 9.10 Pablo ( his X mark) Dias. J. P. Mitchell ... Do. 2, 223 111.15 198.30 518. 30 1 1 cover shortage. hereby certify that the United States marshal for said district was ordered by the names, as appears from the records of the coitrt. James P. Mitchell, Clerk. By John Lemon, Deputy. Pay roll of grand jurors in attendance upon the Third judicial district court, lield 2(34 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Amended Pail roll of pel It jurors in attendance at the United States third judicial district court Las Cruces, We, the undersigned, do liere1)j^ acknowledge to have received of C. M. Foraker, respective names, in full, for the services specified. Name. Residence. Post-office. Dates for which paid (attend- ance). D. Apodaca. C. Garcia . . N. Lucero . A. Sarabia. B. Petraza — Jolm Hegan . J.N. Oustot . R. Cassidy . . A.Martinez T.Grijalba Francisco Sanchez Ramon Lopez A. Garcia P.Torres J.J.Gonzales L. Arias J. Enriquez.. A. S. Abcyta. D. Lopez J. Provencia... Pablo Cordova . S. Benavidas . . Luz Rios Jose Trujillo. J. Armijo"... A. Garcia . C. Lucero. Miles. San Antonio. Oct. 1 (2 travel) 5.00; Tularosa Oct. 1 (3 travel) Las Cruces Las Cruces 10 NE. Las Cruces Organ Cooks ... Hermosa l! 2.00. 26. 00 47 26.00 30.00 12 W. Las Cruces.. Las Cruces.. Las Cruces.. Las Cruces.. Dona Ana . . Pinos Altos . Engle Las Cruces. . Las Cruces.. Hatch 10 20. 00 18.00 18.00 9 18.00 9 18.00 13: 26. 00 SW. Dona Ana . Dona Ana . Las Cruces. Las Cruces. Anthony .. 22. 18.00 i 18. 00 ... . ! 24. 001 4 9 18.00 Las Cruces... Las Palomas. Cuchillo Hatch q 18.00 20,00 10 18 270 10, 20.00 18 270 13| 26. 00 9 18. 00 13 26.00 62 9.30 13 26. 00 48 7.20 10 20.00 2 .30 $7.05 4.20 1.5. 30 Oct. 2 Oct. 1,2,3, 4, .5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 (2 travel). Oct. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, 8, 9, 10, 11 (2 travel). Oct. 1, 2,3,4,5,6,7, 8, 9, 10, 11 (4 travel). Oct. 1, 2, 3, 4, .5, 6, 8, 9,10,11. Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11. Oct. 2, 3,4,5,6,8,9, 10, 11. Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10,11. Oct.2, 3, 4, 5, fi, 8, 9, 10,11. Oct. 1,2,3, 4,5,6,7, 8, 9, 10, 11 (2 travel). Oct.l, 2,3,4,-5,6,7, 8,9,10,11. Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10,11. Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8,9, 10 11. Oct. 1,2, 3. 4, .5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 (1 travel) . Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11. Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10,11. Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9,10,11. Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. Oct. 1,2, 3, 4, .5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 (2 travel). Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10,11. Oct. 1,2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 (2 travel). Oct. 1,2, 3, 4, 5, 6,7, 8, 9, 10, 11 (2 travel). Oct. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9,10,11 (2 travel), a J. Armijo overpaid S2.-50. Amount overpaid and collected from him, S2.50, and redeposited. Oct.2. Oct. 2 . 4 8.00]. 11 2. 00; 1! 2.00;. 2.70 3.60 60 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 2()5 Form No. 29. for the district of Nevj Mexico (hiriiu/ tlie (piarter evding Deciinher 31, 1000, .fitting at 'N. Mex. United States marshal for the (Ustrict of New Mexico, the sums set opposite our s a o o lO CB o c g < o Ml 05 O c H o i 3 o Signatures of payees. Witnesses to marks. Paid by check. No. Date. Name of deposi- tory. 248 288 $12. 40 14.40 $12.40 14.40 $18. 40 22. 40 2.00 2.00 2.00 33.05 37.40 52.20 20.00 18.00 18.00 18.00 18.60 42.00 32. 50 18. 00 18.00 28. 40 18. 60 18. 60 22. 70 22.70 28. 30 18.00 44.70 40.10 22. 20 254 257 258 259 264 1567 1568 1569 1570 1571 1572 1573 1574 1575 1576 1577 1578 1579 1580 1581 1582 1.583 1584 1585 1586 1.587 1588 Oct. 1 Oct. 1 Oct. 2 Oct. 2 Oct. 3 C. Garcia Bank, Albu- querque. Do N. Liicero Do. A. (his X mark) Sarabia. B. Pctraza N. Lucero Do Do. 7.05 11.40 22. 20 John Hegan Do. 144 138 7.20 6.90 J. N. Oiistot Oct. 11.. Oct. n.. Oct. 11.. Oct. 11.. Oct. 11.. Oct. 11.. Oct. 11.. Oct. 11.. Oct. 11.. Oct. 11 Oct. 11 Oct. 11 Oct. 11 Oct. 11 Oct. 11 Oct. 11 Oct. 11 Oct. 11 Oct. 11 Oct. 11 Oct. 11 Do. R. Cassldv Do. A. (his X mark) Martinez. J. (his X mark) Grijalba. Francisco San- chez. Ramon Lopez Chas.Mehan Chas. Mehan Do. ' Do. Do. Do. 12 266 188 .60 13.30 6.90 .60 16.00 10. 50 A. (his X mark) Garcia. P. (his X mark) Torres. J. J. Gonzales Chas.Mehan B.Williams Do. Do. Do. L. (his X mark) Arias. J. (his X mark) Enriques. A. S. Abevta M. Barela M.Barela Do. Do. 76 12 12 3.80 .60 .60 4.40 .60 .60 2.70 2.70 2.30 Do. D. (his X mark) Lopez. J. (his X mark) Provensio. A. S. Abeyto.... L. Burmudes . . . Do. Do. Do. S. (his X mark) Benevides. Luz Rios D. B. Morris, jr. Do. 46| Do. Jose (his X mark) Trujillo. J. (liis X mark) Armijo. B.Williams M.Barela Do. 138 138 38 6.90 6.90 1.90 16. 20 14. 10 2.20 Do. Do. C. Lucero Do. 266 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Pay roll of petit jurors in uttemhmce at tlie United Statex tliird judicial di' Bank, Albuquer- I que. I DO. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. • Do. [ Do. } Do. } Do. ]- Do. I Do. \ Do. \First Nat'l Bank, J Albuquerque. do hereby certify that the United States marshal for said district was ordered by names, as appears from the records of the court. Hakry p. Owen, Ckrl:. of petit jurors in attendance upon the second jud. dist. court, held at Albuquerque, 272 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Amended Pay roll of petit jurors in attenckuice at tJie United States fourth judicial quarter ending June SO, 1901, We, the undersigned, do hereby acknowledge to have received of C. M. Foraker, our respective names, in full, for the services specified. Name. E. R. Fullenwider F. O. Blood R. Rovbal . John Bell M. Vigil Wm.Howenfield M. Tafoya A. Sena S. Espinosa L. Garcia F.Gonzales L. M. Segundo . . . C. Lucero L. Quintano R.B.Rice C.Romero A. Arguello M.Segura F.Nieto M.Floros S. Romero A. Duran R. L. y Apodaca.. Residence. E... Post-office. Dates for which paid. Attendance. Raton May 13, H Las Vegas Wagonmound Raton Mora Buell-Raton . . Mora Liberty Mora Pelos Guronomo Chaperito Rociada Rociada Las Vegas Las Vegas Las Vegas — Las Vegas Piierto de Luna. Las Vegas Puerto de Luna. Cimarron Chaperito May 14 May 13, 14, 1.5, Hi, 17, 18. Mav 13, 14, 1.5, 16,17,18. May 13, 14, 15, 16,17,18. May 13, 14, 15, 16, 17,18. Mav 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. May 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. May 13, 14, 15, 16, 17,18. Mav 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. Mav 13, 14, 15, 16, 17,18. May 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. May 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. May 13, 14, 15, 16, 17,18. May 14, 1.5, 16, 17, 18. May 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. Mav 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. Mav 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. Mav 13, 14, 15, 16, 17,18. Mav 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. May 13, 14, 1.5, 16, 17, 18. May 13, 14, 15, 16, 17,18. Mav 13, 14, 15, 16, it, 18. 10 $6.00 2.00 14.00 7 14.00 14.00 16.00 14.00 20. 00 14.00 16.00 14.00 14.00 7 14. 00 14.00 10.00 10.00 10.00 10.00 20. 00 10.00 20.00 20.00 14.00 «9.00 6.60 9.00 34. 05 9.00 3.75 4.50 9.00 7.50 7.50 25. 20 25. 20 6.60 9.00 NEW STATEHOOD HILL. 273 Form No. 29. district coitrtfor the — sitting at Las< Vec/as, N. Mcx United States luaryhal for the (listricl of New Mexico dii.rivg the — (Ustrict of New Mexico, the sums set opposite o % 11 1 B Signatures fil' payee.s. Witnesses to marks. Paid by check. Num- ber. Date. Name of deposi- tory. 222 ijll. 10 117. 10 2.00 18. 60 25. 20 23. 00 33.80 23.00 .54. 15 23.00 25.25 18.60 23. 00 21. .50 21. 50 10.00 10.00 10.00 10.00 45. 30 10.00 45.30 33. 80 23.00 76 77 136 1.59 May 14 ....do... May 18 ....do... ....do... ....do... ....do... ....do... ....do... ....do... ....do... ....do... ....do... ....do... ....do... ....do... ....do... ....do... ....do... ....do... ....do... ....do... ....do... First National F. 0. Blood Bank, Albu- querque. Do. 92 224 4.60 11.20 «11.20 9.00 17. SO 9.00 34.15 9.00 9.25 4.60 9.00 7.50 R. Rovbal Do. John Bell Do. M. Vigil 160 16] Do. 224 11.20 Wm. Honevfield . Do. M. (his X mark) Tafoya. A. Sena E. P. Chapman.. 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 Do. 2 .10 Do. Do. 110 2 5.50 .10 Do. Do. L. Montane S e - gundo. C. (his X mark) Lu- eero. Do. Per R.B.Rice... Do. 7 50 Do. R.B.Rice Do. Do. A. Arguello Do. M. Segura Do. 2 .10 25.30 F Nieto Do. M. Flores Do. 2 144 .10 7.20 25. 30 13.80 9.00 Do. Do. R. L. V Apodaca Do. H S B- -18 274 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Amended Pdi/ roll of pritt jin-ors l)i uttendanee at the United States fourth judicial district court for Vegas, We, the undersigned, do hereby acknowledge to have received of C. M. Foraker, our respective names, in full, for tj.ie services specified. Name. Residence. Date of attendance. 1 No. Per diem days. paid. Miles by stage or private convey- ance, atl5 cents. o a < B. C. Pittenger E. Las Vegas May 14,15,16,17,18 5 10.00 District of New Mexico, .s^.- I, , clerk of the fourth judicial district court of the district was ordered by the court to pay the several petit jurors above named the amounts (Indorsed:) Form No. 29. Voucher No. 5. District of New Mexico. Payroll Vegas, N. M., during the quarter ending Jmie 30, 1901. Amended Pay roll of })et it jm-ors in attendance at the United Statei^ fourth judicial district court for Vegas, We, the undersigned, do hereby acknowledge to have received of C. M. Foraker, our respective names, in full, for the services specified. Residence. Dates for which paid. o 6 z; 3 c < i a o a Name. County. a; c Direc- $ tion. Post-nfflce. Attendance. > Las Vegas, N. M. Raton N. M.. May 13. 14, 15,16,17,18. do 6 8 12.00 16.00 Fred Bruegge- man. ! Total . 14 28.00 District of New ]Me.xico, .s.s.- I, Secundino Komero, clerk of the fourth judicial district court of the dis- trict was ordered by the court to pay the several ]urors above named the amounts (Indorsed:) Form No. 29. Voucher No. 6. District of New Mex. Payroll of quarter ending June 30, 1901. 139.20. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 275 Form No. 29. the (UMricf of New Mexico durinq the quarter end'mq June 30, 1901, siltiiK) at fjcis N. M. United States marshal for the district of New IVlexico, the sums set opposite Miles by rail, at 5 cents. c o S < Total mile- age paid. 'I o Paid by check. Signature. Witne.ss to mark. No. T^ f . Name of deposi- 2 .10 .10 10.10 B. C. Pittinger 182 May 18 Bank.Albuquer- que. of New Mexico, do hereby certif}'^ that the United States marshal for said district set oi^posite their names, as appears from the records of the court. Secundino Romero, Clerk. of petit jurors in attendance upon the fourth judicial district court held at Las Form No. 29. the district of New Mexico during the quarter ending June SO, 1901, fitting at La!< N. M. United States marshal for the district of New Mexico, the sums set opposite i2 1 Amount. o n O a D o 3 ci "3 Signatures of payees. Witnesses to marks. Paid by check. No. Date. Name of deposi- tory. 12.00 27. 20 2214 2223 June 14 June 15 First Nat'l Bank, 22-4 11.20 11.20 Fred Brueggeman. Albuquerque. Do 1 224 11.20 11 -'^0 39.20 trict of New Mexico, do hereby certify that the United States marshal for said dis- set opposite their names, as appears from the records of the court. Secundino Romero, Clerk. petit jurors in attendance upon the 4th jud. dist. court, held at Las Vegas during the 276 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Amended Pay roll of grand jurors In attendance at the United States dktricf court for the first district We, the undersigned, do hereby acknowledge to have received of C. M. Foraker, respective names, in full, for the services specified. H. S. Kaune , Nieanor Baca Francisco Gon- zales y Baca. Agustin" Martinez Marcus Eldodt... Demetrio Rivera. Ignacio Cordova . J.E.Manzanares. Camilo Varos Salvador Valdez . Jose Ignacio Arellano. Federico Chavez . Filadelflo Mon- tano. A. N. Harp Residence. Countv. Francisco Rav- bal. Juan Bautista Ortega. William White... Geo. Brocklesbv . George N. Frotz- mann. Miguel Martinez. Manuel Sanchez . Esquipulo de Aguerro. Santa Fe Santa Fe . . . Santa Fe . . . Rio Arriba . Santa Fe . . . Rio Arriba . Rio Arriba . San Juan . Tao.s Taos Taos Rio Arriba.. do Santa Fe Toas do San Juan . Taos Santa Fe. Rio Arriba. do... Santa Fe. Direc- tion. E. N. SE. NW. SW. Post-office. Santa Fe . . . Santa Fe . . Santa Fe .. Park View Santa Fe .. Vallecitos . Cordova . . . Largo Taos Ojo Caliente Dixon Canjilon... Pierra Am- arillo. San Pedro . Penasco . . . do Jewett Red River . 1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9, 10,11,12,13 San Pedro, (mileage one way only) . C h a m i t a , (mileage one way only). Tampas . . . Santa Fe.. . Dates for which paid. -Attendance.' 1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9, 10,11,12,13 1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9, 10,11,12,13 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 9,10,11,12,13 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10,11,12,13 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 9, 10, li; 12, 13 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 9,10,11,12,13, 1,2, 3, 4, .5, 0,7,8, 9,10,11,12,13 2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 9,10,11,12.13 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 9,10,11,12,13. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 9,10,11,12,13. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 9,10,11,12,13. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 9,10,11,12,13. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9,10,11,12,13. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 9,10,11,12,13. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 9,10,11,12,13. 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, 10, 11, 12, 13. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10,11,12,13. /Aug. 30-31 tSept.14-15 Travel. /Aug. 30-31 tSept. 14 [Aug. 31 tSept. 14 Aug.29,30, 31, Sept. 14, 16, 16 (Aug. 30-31 \Sept. 14 (Aug. 31 \Sept. 14 Aug. 31, Sept. 14. Aug. 30, 31, Sept. 14, 15. Aug. 30, 31, Sept. 14,15. Aug. 31, Sept. 14. Aug. 31, Sept. 14. Aug. 31, Sept. 14. fAug. 28, I 29,30,31, ■jSept. 14, 1.5,16,17. Aug.29,30, 31, Sept. 14, 15. Aug. 31, Sept. 14. Sept. 14. Sept. 14. 12 36.00 12 36.00.... 12 36.00.... 17! 51.00 11! 33.00 48.00 45.00 57.00 45.00 45.00 17' 51.00 51.00 45.00 45.00 45.00 6.00 57.00 54.001 126 52 42 30 40 il60 45. 00 44 13 39.00, 3 13 39.00, 24 1 3. 00 . . . a All dates in attendance column are month of September, year 1902. District of New Mexico, .s.s.- I, A. M. Bergere, clerk of the district court of the first district of New Mexico, do court to pay the several grand jurors above named the amounts set opposite their (Indorsed:) Form No. 29. Voucher No. 1. District of New Nexico. Pay roll of during the quarter ending September 30, 1902. |1,283.25. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 277 Form No. 29. of New Mexico, during the quarter ending September SO, 1902, sitting nt S(tnta Fe, N. Mex. United States marshal for the district of New Mexico, the sums set opposite our 12.00 4.20 18.60 9.30 4.50 18.90 3'S ^ p. 36.00 23. 25 2.70 106 9.90 378 7.80 6.30 4.50 6.00 24. 00 18.90 6.60 45 3.60 6.00 3.40 29.60 5.80 6.00 5.30 18.90 18.90 3.60 106 5. 30 106 5. 30 592j 29. 60 306j 15. 30 72 3. 60 38, 1.90 2. 65 18.00 7.60 48.20 14.60 10.50 8.00 28. 80 26. 70 9.90 9.80 11.30 53.60 34.20 10. 20 2. 35 6.25 Signatures of payees. H.S. Kanne Nicanor Baca Francisco Gonza. les y Baca. /Agustin (his x \ mark) Martinez. Marcus Eldodt . . . Paid by check. Witnesses to marks. No. Demetrio Rivera . Ygnacio Cordova. J.E. Manzanares . Camilo Varos Salvador Valdes. 00| Jose Ignacio Arel- lano. 80 Federico Chavez .70 Filadelflo Mon- I tano. F. Gonzales y Baca. Date. 59 54.90; A.N. Harp 54. 80 Francisco Raybal . 56. 30 Juan Bautista Or- tega. 116. 60 88.20 .55. 20 45.25 William White... | i George Brockelsby George N. Proty- mann. Miguel Martinez Manuel Sanchez., Esquipulo (his x mark) Aguerro Steplien Easton Name of Depository. Sept. 13 ...do... ...do... ...do... ...do... ...do... ...do... ...do... ...do... ...do... ...do. ...do. ....do.. ....do.. 3.... do.. ....do.. ....do.. ....do.. ....do.. ....do... 79.... do. 3 do , All checks dated September, 1902, and drawn on the First Natl. Bank of Albu- querque, N. M. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. hereby certify that the United States marshal for said district was ordered by the names, as appears from the records of the court. [Seal.] -'^- ^^- Bergere, Clerk. grand jurors in attendance upon the first district court held at Santa Fe, N. M., 278 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Amended Pujl roll of petit jurors lit attendance at the United States district court for tlie frst district We, tlie undersigned, do hereby acknowledge to have received of C. M. Foraker, respective names, in full, for the services specified. Name. Residence. County. Chiis. Closson . . . John Patterson... Manuel Salazar . . Carlos Archuleta. Serafino Salazar. . Urban Salazar Manuel Pachcco . Antonio Archu- leta. Lorenz Basquez.. Nicolas Archuleta David Gallegos . . T.A.Melson O. W. Alexander . Bias Sanchez Everette Burns . . L.T.Bryan Edgar Andrews . . Ross Griffiths .... Lawrence Welsh. SantaFe... Santa Fe . Taos Rio .\rriba.. Rio .\rriba.. Rio .Vrriba.. Rio Arriba.. Rio Arriba.. Taos Rio Arriba. . Rio Arriba.. Taos SantaFe.... Taos Taos Taos Santa Fe . . . Santa Fe . . . San Juan ... William E. Len- i San Juan . festy. I Wni. T. Williams . Santa Fe . . Allen Young Santa Fe .. Grant Rivenberg. SantaFe.. ms. Direc- tion. Post-office. SantaFe.... SantaFe Ranches de Taos. Chamita Chamita Chamita Chamita Chamita Taos Elrito Elrito Red River .. Cerrillos Penasco Red River. Twining Cerrillos Cerrillos Bloomfield . Aztec Dates for which paid. Attendance. Travel. Sept. ' Cerrillos Cerrillos Santa Fe ... Sept. 1 Sept. 1,2,3.4, 5,6,7.8,9,10, 11,12,13. Sept. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,6,7.8,9,10, 11,12,13. Sept. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. S, 9, 10, 11,12,13. Sept. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,6,7,8,9,10, 11,12,13. Sept. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,6,7,8,9,10, 11,12,13. Sept. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,6,7,8,9,10, 11,12,13. Sept. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,6.7,8,9,10, 11,12,13. Sept. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,6,7,8,9,10, 11,12,13. Sept. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,6,7,8.9,10, 11,12,13. Sept. 1,2, 3,4, 5,6,7,8,9,10, 11,12,13. Sept. 1,2, 3, 4, 5,6,7,8,9,10, 11,12,13. Sept. 1, 2. 3, 4, 5,6,7,8,9,10, 11,12,13. Sept. 1, 2. 3, 4, 5,6,7,8,9,10, 11,12,13. Sept. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,6,7,8,9,10, 11,12,18. Sept. 1, 2. 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10,11,12,13. Sept. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. Sept. 1. 2, 3, 4, 5. 6. 7, 8, 9, 10,11,12,13. Sept. 1. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. Sept. 1, 2, 3. 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. Sept. 1, 2, 3, 4. 5. 6, 7. 8, 9, 10,11,12,13. Sept. 2, 3, 4. 5, 6,8,9,10,11. 12, 13. Aug. 31, Sept. 14. Aug. 31, Sept. 14. Aug. 31, Sept. 14. Aug. 31, Sept. 14. Aug. 31, Sept. 14. Aug. 31, Sept. 14. Aug.30,31, Sept. 14. Aug.30,31, Sept. 14. Aug.30,31, Sept. 14. Aug.29,30, 31, Sept. 14, 15. Aug. 31, Sept.—. Aug. 31, Sept. 14. Aug.29,30, ,31, Sept. 14, 15. Aug.30,31, Sept. 14, 15. Aug. 31 . . . Aug. 31... Aug. 29, 30, 31; Sept. 14, 15, 16. .\ug. 29, 30, 31: Sept. 14, 15, 16. Aug. 31, Sept. 14. Aug. 31 . . . NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 279 Form No. 29. of New Mexico during the quarter ending Heptemher SO, 1902, silting at Santa Fe, N. Me.i . United States marshal for the district of New Mexico, the sums set opposite our 181.00 .90 .90 .90 .90 9. 30 9. 50 7.50 18.90 .30 .5.4u 18.90 11.40 «5. 30:»13. 40 3. 85 4. 75 3. 85 3. 85 3. 85 4. 75 3. 85 4. 75 3.85 5.30 4.75 14.60 6.00: 13.50 6.00! 13.50 Signatures ol' payees. Paid by check. Witnesses to marks. 13.00: Chas.Closson. 3.00, .Tolm Patterson. 58.40 Manuel Salasar. 49.75 Carlos Arehuleta 48.85' Soralin Saliizar .. 49. 75i Urban (su -x raar- [ ca) Salazar. 49.75 Manuel Pacheeo. 15.00 12.90 592 3. 60 72 72 15. 30 3.60 5.30 15.30 9.00 34. 20! 3.90 10.70 I 34.20' I 20. 40 49.75 .\ntoni^latey district court for the first Fe, N. Mex. Residence. Dates for which paid. o Name. County. 1 5 Direc- tion. Post-oftice. Attendance. Travel. No. of days Amount. Manuel Valdez .. Santa Fe Mis. Santa Fe SGDt. 2. 3. 4. .5. 11 11 $33.00 59 nn W. 0. Cooper .... Pedro Raobal Santa Fe 6,8,9,10,11, I 12, 13. Santa Fe i Sept. 2, 3, 4, .5, t 6,8,9,10,11, : 12, 1.3. Santa Fe.... Sept. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. Santa Fe ! i li; 33.00 Total 361 1 nss nn 816 ! 1 District of New Mexico, ss: I, A. M. Bergere, clerk of the district court of the first district of New Mexico, do court to pay the several petit jurors above named the amounts set opposite their [seal. ] (Indorsed:) Triplicate. Form No. 29. Voucher No. 2. District of New Mexico. New M*x., durincT the quarter ending September 30, 1902. $1,369.35. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 281 dvitrirt of New Mexico duriiuj the qiuirlcr eiidiiuj Sej)teiitl>er 30, 1902, sittini/ at Smiti — Continued. c p o a < ^ 03 o O c © a OS Signatures of l)ayees. Witnesses to marks. Paid by check. IS i s < No. Date. Name of deposi- tory. 1 i S33.00 Manuel Valdez. . . 107 108 109 Sept. 13. Sept. 13. Sept. 13. Do. 33.00 \V. 0. Cooper Do. 33.00 Pedro Roibal Do. 1 122.40 3279 163.95 286.351,369.35 1 hereby certify that the United States marshal for said district was ordered by the names, as appears from the records of tlie court. (Signed) A. M. Bergere, Clerk. Pay roll of petit jurors in attendance upon the first district court, held at Santa Fe, 282 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. EXHIBIT E. NOTICIA LEGAL. TJltliiia Yoluntad y Testaineuto de Jose Baca y Barda, Finado. A E.speridion IWa, Albacoa y Leo-atario, Sabina Chavez, Emiliano Baca, Andres Baca, 3^ Dionicio Baca, Legatarios, todos Residentes de Barelas, N. M., j a todos a quienes esta concierna. Estan Yds. por esta Notiticados que la Ultima Voluntad y Testamento de Jose Baca y Barela, del Coiulado de Bernalillo y Territorio de Nuevo Mejico, finado ha sido producido y leido en la (Jorte de Pruebas del Condado de Bernalillo y Territorio de Nuevo Mejico, en una Sesion Regular de la niisma, tenida el dia Dos de Setiembre 1902, y el dia para Aproliar dicha Ultima Voluntad y Testamento fuo por ordcn del Juez de pruebas de dicha Corte fijadopara elLunes dia seis deOctul)re, A. D. 1902, Termino de dicha Corte, a las 10 A. M., de dicbo dia. _ Dado bajo mi mano v el sello de dicha Corte, este dia Dos de Setiem- bre, A. D. 1902. [seal.] J. A. Summers, Escrihoni) de Pruehas. LEGAL NOTICE. Last lo'dl and ttstainent of Joae Baca y BareJa^ deceased. To Exjh I'ldion Baca., execxdor and devisee., Sdhina Chavez., Emiliano Baca^ Andres Baca^ and Dionicio Baca., devisees, all 'residents of Barelas., N. M., and to all lohom it may concern: You are hereby notified that the alleged last will and testament of Jose Baca y Barela, late of the county of Bernalillo and Territory of New Mexico, deceased, has been produced and read in the probate court of the county of Bernalillo, Territory of New Mexico, at a regular term thereof, held on the 2nd day of September, 1902; and the day of the proving of said alleged last will and testament was, by order of the judge of said court, thereupon fixed for Monday, the 6th day of Octo- ber, A. D. 1902, term of said court, at 10 o'clock in the forenoon of said da}^ Given under my hand and the seal of said court this 2nd day of Sep- tember, A. D. 190:i. [seal.] J. A. Summers, Prohate Clerk. EXHIBIT F. Be it remembered, that heretofore, at a regular term of the district court of the second judicial district of the Territory of New Mexico, within and for the county of Bernalillo, begun and held at the court- house in said county on the third Monday in September, 1900, and on NEW STATEHOOD KILL. 283 the third day of said rej^uhir term, the same heino-the 19th day of Sep- tember, li>()0, the foUowino- amont>' othor proceeding's were had: Present, Ilonora))le f Jonathan W. ('riim{)a(*ker. associate justice of the supreme court of the Territory of New Mexico, and judg-e of the second judicial district court thereof, Abelino A. Aguirre, etal., r. Francisco A. Sarracino. et al. No. -tTiO. This cause havino- at a former day come on for final hearing- upon the pleadings, proofs, and exhibits returned therewith, the three reports of A\'illiam D. Lee, the master of this court, to whom this cause was referred for examination and report, the stipulation of coimsel as to the eiiect to be given to Prince's Exhibit No. 2T, and upon the excep- tions to the said reports tiled on behalf of complainants by their coun- sel, F. W. Clancy, and on behalf of such of defendants as have appeared herein, by their counsel, B. S. Rode}' and L, Bradford Prince, and counsel having been heard as well for said defendants as for the com- plainants, and this cause having been taken under advisement by the court, the court, being now sufficiently advised in the premises, over- rules all of the exceptions to the said report of the said master, and hereby adopts the findings of the said master in said reports contained and set forth as the findings of the court in this case, except so far as modified by the stipulation aforesaid of all of the counsel who have appeared herein. It is, therefore, ordered, adjudged, and decreed by the court that the said reports of the master be, and they hereby are, in all respects approved, ratified, and confirmed except so far as modified by the said stipulation, and that, in accordance with the said reports and the said stipulation, the lands and premises in the pleadings and in the said reports described and referred to, with the exception and res- ervation in the first of said reports noted and hereinafter set forth, are owned by the following-named persons in the proportions set opposite their respective names, to-wit: Albert L. Richardson, 9/30 and 7,761,983/11,642,400 of 1/30. L. Bradford Prince, 8,117/11,760 of 1/30. ^Villi Spiesrelbercj, 13/28 of 1/30. Louis Hunino-, 583/2100 of 1/30. Dolores Garcia, 17/525 of 1/30. Juliana Chaves, 17/1750 of 1/30. I^nacio Chaves, 17/1750 of 1/30. Victorio Chaves, 17/1750 of 1/30. Jesus Chaves, 17/1750 of 1/30. Juana Candelaria, 17/3500 of 1/30. Cresencio Candelaria, 17/3500 of 1/30. Heirs of Eusebio Ballejos, 54/75 of 1/30. Heirs of (xabriel Ballejos, 54/75 of 1/30. Manuela Apodaca, 1/210 of 1/30. Jesus Apodaca, 1/70 of 1/30. Ana Maria Apodaca, 1/315 of 1/30. Jesus Maria Mestas, 1/630 of 1/30. Esequiel Mestas, 1/630 of 1/30. Dolores Candelaria, 1/630 of 1/30. Deciliano Aj>odaca, 1/70 of 1/30. Anastacio Garcia, 53/3780 of 1/30. Josefa Garcia, 53/3780 of 1/.30. Anasaria Garcia, 53/3780 of 1/30. Veneranda Telles, 1/280 of 1/30. Abel Telles, 1/280 of 1/30. Cliniarco Gallegos, 143/5040 of 1/30. Five Brothers of Climarco Gallegos, 143/1008 of 1/30. 284 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Heirs of Jose Jaramillo, 11/400 of 1/30. Francisca Jaramillo de Sarracino, 11/320 of 1/30. Cruz Jaramillo, 11/400 of 1/30. Brigida Jaramillo, 11/400 of 1/30. Barbara Jaramillo, 11/400 of 1/30. Juana Ballejos de Baca, 11/2000 of 1/30. Jose Ballejos, 11/2000 of 1/30. Koman Ballejos, 11/2000 of 1/30. Ruperta Ballejos de Silva, 11/2000 of 1/30. Daughter of Francisco Ballejos & Marcelina Jaramillo, 11/2000 of 1/30. Demetrio Jaramillo, 11/400 of 1/30. Heirs of Baltazar Jaramillo, 11/1600 of 1/30. Heirs of Concepcion Jaramillo, 11/1600 of 1/30. Heirs of Genoveva Jaramillo, 11/1600 of 1/30. Lupe Sandoval, 1/100 of 1/30. Juana Sandoval, 1/150 of 1/30. Marcelina Castillo, 1/150 of 1/30. Heirs of Francisco Sandoval, 1/100 of 1/30. Josetita Sandoval, 1/100 of 1/30. Tomas Sandoval, 1/100 of 1/30. Deciderio Sandoval, 121/2100 of 1/30. Rafael Sandoval, 1/100 of 1/30. Josefa Sandoval, 1/100 of 1/30. Cecilia Ortega de Garcia, 1/90 of 1/30. Antonio Jose Ortega, 1/135 of 1/30. Santos Ortega, 1/135 of 1/30. Heirs of Francisco Ortega, 1/90 of 1/30. Feliz Ortega de Dominguez, 1/90 of 1/30. Tomas Garcia, 37/3150 of 1/30. Mariano Garcia, 37/3150 of 1/30. Maria Garcia, 37/3150 of 1/30. Feliz Garcia, 37/3150 of 1/30. Jose Manuel Garcia, 37/3150 of 1/30. Leandra Sanchez, 1/135 of 1/30. Claudia Mason, 1/80 of 1/30. Sara Mason, 1/160 of 1/30. Leopoldo Mason, 113/1120 of 1/30. Beatriz Jaramillo, 1/240 of 1/30. Juan Jaramillo, 1/240 of 1/30. Lorenza Jaramillo, 1/240 of 1/30. Liljrada Aragon, 1/60 of 1/30. Teresa Aragon, 1/60 of 1/30. Aragon de Figueroa, 1/60 of 1/30. Librada Landovazo, 1/200 of 1/30. Jesus Landovazo, 1/200 of 1/30. Manuel Landovazo, 1/200 of 1/30. Amado Landovazo, 1/200 of 1/30. Refugio Landovazo, 1/200 of 1/30. Feliz Sena de Garcia, 1/40 of 1/30. Alfredo Apodaca, 1/60 of 1/30. Benjamin Sanchez, 1/240 of 1/30. Eliseo Sanchez, 1/240 of 1/30. Prospero Sanchez, 1/240 of 1/30. Nemecia Sanchez, 1/160 of 1/30. Heirs of Pedro Aragon, 1/30 of 1/30. Dolores Aragon, 1/30 of 1/30. Elias Chaves, 1/90 of 1/30. Felix H. Lester and Summers Burkhart, 1/45 of 1/30. Lupe Aragon de Jaramillo, 1/70 of 1/30. Jesus Aragon, 1/70 of 1/30. Nepomuceno Aragon, 1/105 of 1/30. Lucario Aragon, 1/105 of 1/30. Reyes Aragon de Gonzales, 1/70 of 1/30. Leocadia Chaves de Chaves, 1/210 of 1/30. Elisa Pacheco, 1/210 of 1/30. Petra Aragon de Chaves, 1/70 of 1/30. Antonio Lucero, 1/3 of 1/30. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 285 Juaiia Gallegoi?, la grarnle, 1/6 of 1/30. Juana GallefjoH, la chica, 1/6 of 1/30. Manuel Atoclia (Tallegos, 1/9 of 1/30. Pablo (Tallegos, 1/9 of 1/30. Gallego8, brother of last two, 1/9 of 1/30. Heirs of Nicolas Gallegos, 1/3 of 1/30. Jesus Baca, 1/45 of 1/30. Adolfo Baca, 1/150 of 1/30. Liberate Baca, 1/150 of 1/30. Pedro Baca, 1/150 of 1/30. Trinidad Baca, 1/150 of 1/30. Baca, a daughter, living at the house of Alejandro Sandoval, 1/150 of 1,30. Trinidad Marquez, 11/120 of 1/30. Desiderio Marquez, li/120 of 1/30. Jesus Marquez, 11/120 of 1/30. Lorensita ^Marquez de Chavez, 11/120 of 1/30. Lugarda Marquez de ]Mirabal, 11/360 of 1/30. Octaviana Marquez de Barela, 11/.360 of 1/30. Elviria Marquez de Arniijo, 11/360 of 1/30. Juan Bautista Marquez, 11/96 of 1/30. Gabriel Marquez, 11/96 of 1/30. Estoliano 31arquez, 11/480 of 1/30. Veneranda ^larquez, 11/480 of 1/30. Viviana Marquez, 11/480 of 1/30. Natividad Marquez, 11/480 of 1/30. Patrocinio Manjuez, 11/480 of 1/30. Heirs of Ferniin Chavez, 11/96 of 1/30. Eegalada ]Marquez, 1/24 of 1/30. Felipe ^larquez, 1/24 of 1/30. Seferina ^Nlanjuez, 1/36 of 1/30. Deluvina Marquez, 1/24 of 1/30. [Manuel Gallegos, 1/18 of 1/30. Martin Gallegos y Chaves, 1/96 of 1/30. Procopio Gallegos y Apodaca, 1/96 of 1/30. Concepcion Gallegos y Apodaca, 1/96 of 1/30. Alcario Gallegos y Ajiodaca, 1/96 of 1/30. Predicanda Gallegos y Apodaca, 1/96 of 1/30. Saturnina Gallegos y Apodaca, 1/96 of 1/30. Manuel Gallegos y Apodaca, 1/96 of 1/30. Liberato Gallegos y Apodaca, 1/96 of 1/30. Rita Candelaria, 1/9 of 1/30. Maria de los Angeles Candelaria. 1/9 of 1/30. Merced Candelaria, 1/9 of 1/30. Maria Gallegos de Casias, 2/21 of 1/30. Noberta Gallegos, 4/189 of 1/30. Desiderio Gallegos, 4/189 of 1/30. Diosa Gallegos, 4/189 of 1/30. Guadalupita Gallegos, 2/63 of 1/30. Apolinaria Gallegos, 4/189 of 1/30. Juana Maria Gallegos, 4/189 of 1/30. Maria Asencion Gallegos, 4 63 of 1/30. Manuel Chaves y Lucero, 2/189 of 1/30. Heirs of Cipriana Duran de Candelaria, 1/63 of 1/30. Refugia Candelaria, 1/63 of 1/30. Ynez Candelaria, 1/63 of 1/30. ]\Iaria Candelaria, 1/63 of 1/30. Juan Francisco Candelaria, 1/63 of 1/30. Antonio Jose Serna, 1/27 of 1/30. Juan Serna, 1/27 of 1/30. Concepcion Serna, 1/27 of 1/30. Josesito Serna, 1/27 of 1/30. Rumalda Serna, 1/27 of 1/30. Barbara Serna, 1/27 of 1/30. Vences Ortiz, 1/62 of 1/30. Maria Refugia Ortiz, 1/162 of 1/30. George J. Juilliard, 1/162 of 1/30. Mauricio Ortiz, 1/162 of 1/30. 280 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. I Miguel Ortiz, 1/162 of 1/30. IVrlilia Ortiz, 1/162 of 1/30. Kojo (iarvia, 1/108 of 1/30. Eusel)i() Garcia, 1/108 of 1/30. Ydt'hno (larcia, 1 '108 of 1/30. Feliz CTaroia, 1/108 of 1/30. Maria Oritz de Ansures, 1/81 of 1/30. Barbara Ortiz de Padilla, 1/81 of 1/30. Veneranda Ortiz de Lopez, 1/81 of 1/30. Jose Serna, 2/63 of 1/30. JnanaSerna, 2/63 of 1/30. Irineo Torres, 1/63 of 1/30. Jesus Maria Torres, 1/63 of 1/30. Casimiro D. Garcia, 45 224 of 1/30. Dolores Serna, 1/63 of i/30. Rosaria Serna, 2/189 of 1/30. Brigida Serna, 2/189 of 1/30. Juan de Jesus Molina, el Gordo, 1/18 of 1 30 Candido Molina, 1/18 of 1/30. Jose Andres Molina, 1/18 of 1/30. Jose Pablo Molina, 1/18 of 1/30. Anastacia Sais, 1/18 of 1/30. Pilar Molina, 1/54 of 1/30. Sofia .Molina, 1/54 of 1/30. Rosenda Molina, 1/54 of 1/30. Juana Molina, 1/33 of 1/30. Juan Rafael Molina, 1/33 of 1/30. Eulogio :\Iolina, 1/33 of 1/30. Juan Francisco Molina, 1/33 of 1/30. Jose Molina, 1/33 of 1/30. Justo Molina, 1/33 of 1/30. Luciano Molina, 1/33 of 1/30. Maria Molina, 1/33 of 1/30. Lorenso Molina, 1/33 of 1/30. Ainada Griego, 1/33 of 1/30. Jose Chaves, son of Polonia Silva, 1/108 of 1/30. Juana Maria Chaves, daughter of Polonia Silva, 1/108 of 1/30. Guadalupe Chaves, 1/270 of 1/30. Adela Chaves, 1/270 of 1/30. Apolonia Chaves, 1/270 of 1/30. Estevan Chaves, 1/270 of 1/30. Pilar Chaves, 1/270 of 1/30. Josefa Silva de Jiron. la Chata, 1/54 of 1/30. Manuel Silva, 1/36 of' 1/30. San Juan Xlibarri, 37/432 of 1/30. Feliz Ulibarri, 37/432 of 1/30. Longino Ulibarri, 37/432 of 1/30. Juana Ulibarri, 37/432 of 1/30. Tiburcia Ulibarri de Salas, 37/324 of 1/30. Canuto Ilibarri, 37/216 of 1/30. Carlota Naranjo de Chaves, 37/162 of 1/30. Jose G. Chaves, 1/252 of 1/30. Benito Chaves, 1/252 of 1/30. Querino Chaves, 1/252 of 1/30. Sabina Chaves, 1/252 of 1/30. Benina Chaves, 1/252 of 1/30. Loreto Chaves, 1/252 of 1/30. Juanita Chaves, 1/252 of 1/30. Trinidad Garcia de Torres, 1/36 of 1/30. Trinidad Romero de Jaramillo, 3/20 of 1/30. Andrea Garcia, 1/324 of 1/30. Candido Garcia, 1/324 of 1/30. Damasio Garcia, 1/324 of 1/30. Manuel Garcia, 1/324 of 1/30. Rafael Garcia, 1/324 of 1/30. Telesfor Garcia, 1/324 of 1/30. Abela Garcia, 1/324 of 1/30. NEW STATEHOOD HILL. ' 287 Beatriz Garcia, 1/324 of 1/30. CJarcia, cliild of Juan (iarfia, 1/324 of 1 30. Aniado Aguirre, 1,1S0 of 1/30. Donaciano Ajjuirre, 1/180 of 1/30. Abelino A^'uirre, 1/180 of 1/30. Andrea Garcia de Luna, 1/180 of 1/30. Catedra Garcia, 1/180 of 1/30. Luis Padilla, 1/72 of 1/30. Maria CJliaves de Archundi, 7/96 of 1/30. Manuelita Chaves de Padilla, 7/96 of 1/30. Rojeria Gandelaria, 7/480 of 1/30. Eidal Candelaria, 7 480 of 1/30. Luis Candelaria, 7/480 of 1/30. Domingo Candelaria, 7/480 of 1/30. Miquela Candelaria, 7/480 of 1/30. Manuel Chaves, 7/48 of 1/30. Leandro Aragon, 7/48 of 1/30. Miguel Romero, 1/24 of 1/30. Jose Maria Romero, 1/24 of 1/30. Manfor Romero, 1/192 of 1/30. Irines Romero, 1/192 of 1/30. 8oledad Rf.mero, 1/192 of 1/30. Acacio Romero, 1/192 of 1/30. Gregorio Romero, 1/192 of 1/30. Venceslado Romero, 1/192 of 1/30. Jcsefa Romero, 1/192 of 1/30. Romero, sister of seven preceding, 1/192 of 1/30. Jesus Romero, 1/30 of 1/30. Susana Romero de Sals, 1/45 of 1/30. Maria de Jesus Chaves de Barela, 1/72 of 1/30. Antonia Chaves de Sandoval, 1/72 of 1/30. Paula Chaves de Sandoval, 1/72 of 1/30. Primitiva Morales de Garcia, 1/72 of 1/30. Anastacia Chaves de Montano, 1/72 of 1/30. Delfida Mirabal, 1/432 of 1/30. Elena Mirabal, 1/432 of 1/30. Trinidad IMirabal, 1/432 of 1/30. Melitona Mirabal, 1/432 of 1/30. Serafin Mirabal, 1/432 of 1/30. Modesta Miral)al, 1/432 of 1/30. Jose Manuel (iarcia, el Lindo, 1/96 of 1/30. Luciana Garcia, 1/96 of 1/30. Garcia de Pena, wife of IManuel Pena, 1/96 of 1/30. Matiana Garcia de Sandoval, 1/96 of 1/30. Juana Garcia, 1/144 of 1/30. Juanita Garcia, 1/144 of 1/30. Leonires Morales, 1/384 of 1/30. Liberos Morales, 1/384 of 1/30. Kosenda IMoraies, 1/384 of 1/30. Pablo Morales, 1/384 of 1/30. Jesus Mason, 1/6 of 1/30. Heirs of Gregoria (Tonzales de Candelaria, 1/20 of 1/30. Juan Gonzales, el Herrero, 13/280 of 1/30. Placida Molina, la Cautiva, 39/1120 of 1/30. Cayetano Molina, 39/1120 of 1/30. Maria de Jesus Gonzales, 13/350 of 1/30. Trinidad Gonzales de Gonzales, 39/700 of 1/30. Dolores Gonzales. 39/700 of 1/30. Juan Gonzales, 13/350 of 1/30. Candelaria Chaves de Hutchason, 1/8 of 1/30. Jose Alari Chaves, 1/90 of 1/30. Antonio Jose Chaves, 1/90 of 1/30. Querino Jaramillo, 1/360 of 1/30. Jose ^Manuel Jaramillo, 1/360 of 1/30. Ricardo Jaramillo, 1/360 of 1/30. Heirs of Cresencio Jaramillo, 1/240 of 1/30. Clemente Baca, 1/60 of 1/30. 288 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Jnana Baca, 1 60 of 1/30. Joae Maria Chaves, 1/12 of 1/30. Jose Rafael Chaves, 1/72 of 1/30. Juan Manuel Chaves, 1/72 of 1/30. Jose Francisco Chaves, 1/72 of 1/30. Santiaiso Chaves, 1/72 of 1/30. Trinidad Chaves, 1/72 of 1/30. Petra Chaves, 1/72 of 1/30. Pauhna Herrera, 1/12 of 1/30. Catarina Herrera, 1/24 of 1/30. Felipe Herrera, 1/24 of 1/30. Juana Herrera, 1/30 of 1/30. Refugio Herrera, 1/30 of 1/30. Juan Jose Herrera, 1/30 of 1/30. Ambrosia Herrera, 1/30 of 1/30. Nicanor Herrera, 1/30 of 1/30. Manuela Montova de Martinez, 1/24 of 1/30. Teofila INIontova de Trujillo, 1/24 of 1/30. Heirs of Dorotea :\Iontoya, 1/24 of 1/30. Pednj Domingues y Montova, 1/24 of 1/30. Tiburcia Herrera de Garcia, 1/6 of 1/30. Pablo Montano y Herrera, 1/6 of 1/30. Leonarda Herrera de Lujan, 1/42 of 1/30. Donaciano Gallegos, 1/42 of 1/30. Salome Gallegos, 1 42 of 1/30. Gavino Gallegos, 1/42 of 1/30. Crespin Gallegos, 1 42 of 1/30. Antonia Gallegos, 1/42 of 1/30. Epitasio Lopez, 1/126 of 1/30. Maria Lopez, 1/126 of 1/130. Juanita Lopez, 1/126 of 130. Juan Jose Herrera y Jiminez, 1/42 of 1/30. Sabina Herrera, 1/42 of 1/30. Romana Herrera, 1/42 of 130. Bernabe Herrera, 1 42 of 1/30. Julian Herrera, 1,42 of 1/30. Juan Herrera, 1/42 of 1/30. Micaela Herrera, 1/42 of 1/30. Heirs of Juana Herrera de Montano, 1/6 of 1/30. Rosalia Jaramillo de JNIartin, 3/50 of 1/30. Eduardo Gonzales, 3/200 of 1/30. Perfecto Gonzales, 3/200 of 1/30. Reyes Gonzales, 3 200 of 1/30. Cleofa Gonzales, 3 200 of 1/30. Jose Dolores Ballejus, 3/175 of 1/30. P^ucaria Ballejos de Apodaca, 3/175 of 1/30. Trinidad Aragon, 1/350 of 1/30. Dolores Aragon, 1/350 of 1/30. Estevan Aragon, 1/350 of 1/30. Mariano Aragon, 1/350 of 1/30. Nestora Aragon, 1/350 of 1/30. Narciso Aragon, 1/350 of 1/30. Juan Archun.li, 3/700 of 1/30. Beatriz Arclumdi, 3 700 of 1/30. Premia Archundi, 3,700 of 1/30. Jose Rafael Archundi, 3/700 of 1/30. Jose Ballejos, 3/175 of 1/30. Jose Ballejos, son of Manuel Ballejos, 3,350 of 1/30. Manuela Ballejos, 3,350 of 1/30. Manuel Bellejos, 3/350 of 1/30. Pablo Ballejos, 3/350 of 1/30. Juana Jaramillo de Martin, 1/25 of l,/30. Jose Jaramillo, son of Juan Jaramillo, 1/25 of 1/30. Francisco Jaramillo, 1/25 of 1/30. Adolph Seligman, 4/15 of 1/30. Max Frost, 2/15 of 130. B. F. Wade, 2/15 of 1,30. NEW STATEHOOD HILL. 289 lleir^J of Marcos Jarainillo, 1/9 of l/.SO. ( 'iVHeucio Jaianiillo v (.hillego, 1/9 of 1/30. Jof^e Manuel Jaramillo, 1/lS of 1/30. ("reseiu'io Jaramillo y Vhaven, 1/1(5 of 1/30. Manuel Jaraniillo, el Chino, 1/15 oi 1/30. Manuel Jaraniillo, 1/15 of 1/30. Antonio Jarainillo, 1/15 of 1/30. Jose y Jaraniillo, son of Dolores Jarainillo y C'liaves, 1 45 of 1/30. Juan Jarainillo, 1 '45 of 1/30. Sotela Jaraniillo, 1 45 of 1/30. Franeisquita Jarainillo de Cliave?, 1/9 of 1/30. Tafoya v Jaraniillo, son of Teresa Jarainillo ami Damasio Tafoya, 19 of 1/30. Jose Sabedra, 1/45 of 1/30. ]\raris Sabedra, 1 /45 of 1/30. Jose Sabedra, Segundo, 1/45 of 1/30. Francisco Sabedra, 1/45 of 1/30. Sabedra, l)rother of four preceding, 1/45 of 1/30. J nana :\raria Otero, 4/105 of 1/30. Uafaela (ionzales de Mason, 4/105 of 1/30. Daniela (ionzales de Sandoval, 4/105 of 1/30. Jesus Gonzales de Garcia, 4/105 of 1/30. Salvador Baca, 41/525 of 1/30. Heirs of Jesus Maria Gonzales y Santillaues, 4/105 of 1/30. Heirs of Lorenzo Garcia, 1/21 of 1/30. Trinidad Ballejos, 1/84 of 1/30. Abran Ballejos, 1/84 of 1/30. Encarnacion Ballejos, 1/84 of 1/30. Narciso Ballejos, 1/84 of 1/30. Filoinena Garcia, 1/28 of 1/30. Jose Garcia, 1/28 of 1/30. Juan Chaves, son of Polonia Garcia, 1/7 of 1/30. Juan Barela, 1/45 of 1/30. Altagracia Barela, 1/45 of 1/30. Tiburcio Padilla, 1/90 of 1/30. Jose Padilla, 1/90 of 1/30. Serafina Chaves de Marquez, 1/75 of 1/30. Filomeno Chaves, 2/225 of 1/30. Feliz Chavez de Mirabel, 1/75 of 1/30. Juana Chaves de Jaraniillo, 2/225 of 1/30. Cruz Chaves de Salazar, 2/225 of 1/30. Clatarino Molina, 1/60 of 1/30. Ysabel Molina, 1/60 of 1/30. Juana Maria Molina, 1/60 of 1/30. Feliciano Molina, 1/60 of 1/30. Miguel Chaves, 1/6 of 1/30. Heirs of Jose de Jesus Chaves, el Arriero, 1/6 of 1/30. Domingo Chaves, 1/6 of 1/30. Jose Vidal Molina, 1/30 of 1/30. Seferino Molina, 1/30 of 1/30. Crucita Molina, 1/30 of 1/30. Venceslado Molina, 1/30 of 1/30. Predicanda Molina, 1/30 of 1/30. Manuel Chaves, 1/6 of 1/30. Josefa Chaves, 1/6 of 1/30. Juan Gurule, 1/6 of 1/30. Miguel Chaves, 1/12 of 1/30. Juana Chaves, 1/12 of 1/30. Francisco Baca, 1/5 of 1/30. Cecilia Baca, 1/25 of 1 /30. Dolores Baca, 1/25 of 1/30. Manuel Baca, 1/25 of 1/30. Juana Baca, 1/25 of 1/30. Jose Jarainillo, 1/15 of 1/30. Manuel Jarainillo, 1/15 of 1/30. Trinidad Jarainillo cion Padilla de Sabedra, 1/98 of 1/30. Merenciana Padilla, 1/98 of 1/30. Jose Rafael Sabedra, 1/126 of l/'30. Trinidad Sabedra, 1/126 of 1/30. Jose Andres SaV)edra, 1/126 of 1/30. Zenobio Sabedra, 1/126 of 1/30. Nestor Sabedra, 1/126 of 1/30. Eligio Sabedra, 1/126 of 1/30. Delfina Sabedra, 1/126 of 1/30. Blisea Sabedra, 1/126 of 1/30. Jose Romero, 1/14 of 1/30. Heirs of Salvador Jaramillo, 1/2 of 1 30. It is further ordered, adjudged, and decreed by the court that each share of the said premises, as hereinbefore declared and set forth, shall he charged with its ratable proportion of the costs, charges, and expenses of this suit to be taxed; and that an allowance be, and it is hereby, made to William D. Lee. for his services as master in this cause, of the sum of fifteen hundred dollars, to be taxed as a part of the costs herein; that the costs, charges, and expenses of this suit be, and they hereby are, declared to be a lien upon the lands and premises aforesaid, and upon each share and interest as hereinl)efore set forth for its proportionate share of such costs; and that if any party or par- tics to this suit pay more than his or their due proportionate shares of such costs and expenses, then such party or parties shall have a lien upon all interests or shares in the said lands and premises, other than 292 NEW statp:h()OD bill. their own, for the repayuient to them of what they nia}* have paid over and above their due proportionate .shares of such expenses. It is further ordered, adjudged, and decreed by the court, in accord- ance with the reconnuendation of the master, that of the said lands, which amount to lt>!>,567.92 acres and are connuonly icnown by the name of the Cebolleta g-rant. 4.5t)7.1'2 acres l)e. and they here))y are, reserved and excluded from the effect of this decree in order fully to cover the amount of land in actual possession and occupation of persons now living- on the said grant, no proofs having been snbmittedaccuratel}^ and precisely to detine and limit the same. It is hereby further ordered, adjudged, and decreed by the court that the several counsel who have appeared in this cause, and who are L. Bradford Prince. Ralph E. Twitchell. Bernard S. Kodey, and F. W. Clancy, are entitled to, and are hereby declared to have, liens on the shares and interests of their respective clients in the said lands and premises, as herein set forth, for their compensation for services rendered in this suit. J. W. Cruivipacker, Associate Justice^ c&c. Abelino A. Aguirre et al. r. Francisco A. Sarracino et al. No. -tTK). Upon reading and tiling the petition of Miguel Chaves and others, heirs of Juan Antonio Chaves and of Salvador Chaves, two of the original grantees of the Cebolleta grant, from which it appears that a portion of the interest of said two grantees has been reported by the master as belonging to the heirs of fJose de riesus Chaves, el Arriero, while the proofs show that that person was never married, and had no children, and after hearing F. W. Clancy, attorney for said peti- tioners, and it appearing to the court that the correction prayed in said petition can have no possible eli'ect upon the interest or interests of any other person or persons who have been reported to be the owners of interests in the said grant, It is ordered, adjudged, and decreed by the court that the decree about to be entered in this cause be corrected and amended so as to omit therefrom the statement that the heirs of Jose de Jesus Chaves, el Arriero, are entitled to 1 H of 1 30 of the said grant, and so as to state the interest of said petitioners and of Domingo Chaves in the said grant to be as follows: Miguel Chaves, 2/9 of 1/30. Domingo Chaves, 2/9 of 1/30. Jose Vidal Molina, 2/45 of 1/30. Serafino Molina, 2/45 of 1/30. Crucita Molina, 2/45 of 1/30. Venceslado Molina, 2/45 of 1/30. Predicana ^Molina, 2/45 of 1/30. It is further ordered, adjudged, and decreed by the court that this supplemental decree shall be taken and considered as a part of the final decree this day entered herein. J. \V. Crumpacker, Associate -/iistice, ctx\ .Territory of New Mexico, County of BtrnaJ'tlJo. s.s: I, W. E. Dame, clerk of the district court of the second judicial dis- trict of the Territoiy of New Mexico, within and for the county of NEW stat?:h()od bill. 298 Bernalillo, do h(U'cl)y cortity the above and foro.o-oing-to bo a true, cor- rect, and complete copy of a final judgment and order aniendiniL;- same, made and entered of record in that certain caii.se lately ])endino- on tlie docket of .said court wherein Al>elino A. Ao-uirre and other.s were plaintiffs, and Francisco A. Sarracino and others were defendants, as the orio-iuals remain of record and on tile in my .said office. In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and affixed the seal of said court at mv office in Albuquerque, New Mexico, this 14th day of November, A. D. 1!X)2. [seal. J W. E. Dame, Clerh. EXHIBIT G. ('ondenscd report of the eond'tllon of the First National Bank of Albuquerque at the do>^e of business July 16, 190£. Resources. Liabilities. Loan.s, discounts, and local secur- ities $1,153,5,59.86 39, 000. 00 825, 307. 29 312, 000. 00 Capital, surplus, and protits «202, 467. 78 150,000.00 ] . 977, 399. 37 Banking house and fixtures Deposits Cash and exchange Total . United States bonds Total 2, 329, 867. 15 2,329,867.15 EXHIBIT H. Territorio de Nuevo Mexico, Condado de : Ante el Hon. , juez de paz del precinto No. , coii- dado de — , Territorio de Nuevo Mexico: , debidamente juramentado expone por queja, que el dia de , A. D. de 190 — , dentro del precinto No. — — , con- dado y Territorio arriba dicho, hay y alii, a eso de las de la un tal , Y siendo esto en contra de los Estatiitos del Territorio y en contra de la paz y dig-nitad publica, pido que sea tornado su cuerpo y jiizgado segun la ley que corresponda. Testiy-os : Suscrito y juramentado este dia de A. 1). de 190- Juez dis Puz dd Pfvcinfo No. Notario Piiblico. 294 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. EXHIBIT I. Arizona school ftfatixtim — Comparative table, ISSo to 1002, tnclusire. Year. 1885 1886 1887 1888 1889 1890 1891 1892 1893 1894 1895 1896 1897 1898 1899 1900 1901 1902 Receipts. $186, 159, 120, 157, 179, 201, 236, 247, 266, 205, 211, 219, 219, 250, 295, 421, 411, 530, Expendi- Number of schools. tures. S138. 164. 83 137 135, 030. 39 150 117,004.74 169 130,212.14 184 150, 543. 41 197 177,483.83 219 198,762.43 237 207,897.62 251 221,213.28 265 176, 671. 02 289 203,016.41 261 214, 450. 88 293 205, 949. 12 337 224, 185. 90 347 241, 555. 94 375 &45, 314. 29 398 336,838.80 428 401, 235. 59 442 Days of school. 120 140 143 124 135 126 127 124 130 124 120 126 128 130 127 125 128 125 Number of census children. 10,219 Average daily at- tendance. 10, 303 12, 588 12, 976 13, 874 14, 710 15, 463 16, 203 15, 909 16, 936 17,427 18, 802 19, 823 20, 833 23, 435 25, 259 3,326 3,507 3, 602 3,849 4,293 4, 702 5, 047 5, 198 5, 340 6,791 7.034 7,641 8,983 9,011 9,396 10, 177 10,921 11, 514 Value of school property. S212, 389. 00 201,984.00 176, 238. 00 222, 219. 00 222, 9.58. 00 268, 435. 00 297,444.00 320, 609. 00 344, 646. 00 405, 446. 00 414,447.00 428, 935. 00 445, 379. 00 472, 107. 00 490, 504. 00 .529, 024. 00 612, 929. 00 6.54, 942. 00 EXHIBIT J. We, the under.sig-ned. in behalf of the Empire State Soeietv of Ari- zona, representing- l.ouo citizens of the Salt River Valley, and thou- sands of other New Yorkers in the Territory of Arizona, respectfully petition your honorable body to grant us reenfranchisement. Lewis Halsey, President. T. E. Dalton, Treasurer. C. F. AiNSwoKTH, Vice- President. EXHIBIT K. First building- Epworth University. Supported by joint patronage of both branches of Methodist Episcopal Church in the two Territories. [On account of lack of time, illustration omitted in printing.] EXHIBIT L. MEMORIAL PRAYING FOR THE ADMISSION OF OKLAHOMA INTO THE UNION AS A STATE. To the Congress of the United States: The undersigned respectfully represent that a statehood convention was held at Guthrie, Okla., on the 30th day of January, 19(11, called by the nonpartisan statehood executive committee, and that about 100 delegates were in attendance, representing all parts of the Territory and all the political partit\s. That the convention thus assembled was the most representative in its character ever held in Oklaiioma. and in demanding the immediate admission of the Territory as a State undout)tedly expressed the sen- timent of nine-tenths of the people on the statehood question. NEW BTATEHOOI) HTLL. 295 That the undorsio-nod were appointed a coinniittec to present to Con- gress the clamis of Oklahoma for immediate statehood. In pursuanee of the duty devolved upon us by the eonvention we further represent: That the territory within the boundaries of the proposed State of Oklahoma was acquired by the United States from France by the treaty of April 30, 1808, and that by the third article of said treaty the people of Oklahoma have guaranteed to them the right to l)e admitted into the Union as a State '' as soon as p()ssil)le according to the })rinciples of the Federal Constitution.'" (8 Stat., p. 202.) That the Territory of Oklahoma, as now organized, contains 39,030 square miles, exceeding the total area of the 6 States of Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New Jersey, and Dela- ware. There are 12 States now in the Union with less area than the proposed State. That Vjy the Federal census of 1900 the Territory had a population of 398,331, of which 109,191 were of voting age and 147,656 of school age. Since that time new lands have been opened to settlement; there has been a large immigration into all sections of the Territory, and a conservative estimate places the present population at not less than 500,000. Nine States have a less population than Oklahoma now has. The average population of 22 States admitted since the original 13 was 59,113, the highest being only 155,270. Of the 31 States admitted, 4 States had less than 50,000 population at date of admission; 8 States less than 75,000; 9 less than 100,000; 6 less than 200,000; 1 less than 300,000, and only 3 in excess of 300,000. That the assessed valuation of property for the year 1901 was $60,464,696, the property being listed for taxation at less than one- third its actual value. Sixteen States had less taxable property at the time of admission. Before Oklahoma would become a State under the operation of an enabling act passed by the present Congress the real value of her taxable property would be largely in excess of $200,000,000. That the capacity of Oklahoma for agricultural production is fully equal to that of any State in the Union of the same area. The wheat crop of 1901 reached 25,000,000 bushels; cotton, 140,000 bales, and the corn crop (1900) 60,000,000 bushels. No section of the Union produces a greater variety of crops, or with more uniform success. That according to the report of the secretary of the Oklahoma Live Stock Association, the total number of cattle in the Territory is 1 500,000; horses, 365,000; swine, 400,000; mules, 75,000; sheep, 45,000, making a grand total of 2,385,000. That about 1,200 miles of railroad are in operation in the Territor_y at the present time, and that more than 400 miles are in process of construction. Railroad lines are now projected and building that will reach every county in the Territory and make a connection with all the great railroad svstems of the surrounding States. That at the end of the last fiscal year there were 113 Territorial and 31 national banks, with $16,495,465 resources and $12,512, Olf) deposits. At the same date the total T'erritorial indebtedness was onlv 1466,220. That the common schools of the Territory and the higher institu- tions of learning in their organization and excellence are equal to those of any State in the I'nion. There are 2,096 school districts, a Territorial university, two normal schools, an agricultural and 296 NEW STATEHOOD HILL. mechanical college, and a normal university for colored students. These institutions are liberally supported by the Territory, and about 2,000 young men and women are in attendance. The annual expendi- ture for the sup])ort of the common scliools is about $1,000,00(1. The census shows that there is less illiteracy tlian in any State in the Union, and less than 5 per cent of foreign-born population. That the lands reserved foi- the common schools, public buildinos, and penal and charitable institutions for the future State amount to 2,050,000 acres. These lands are now leased under an act of Con- gress and have produced a net revenue of $1,000,000. An insane asylum and penitentiary are badly needed, and it is the desire of the people of the Territory that they be constructed under the direction of a State government. That there are 22 daily, 108 weekly, 20 monthlv, and 4 semimonthly newspapers and periodicals published in the Territory. That at the election in li>00, 72,352 votes were cast for Delegate to Congress. This muiiber was in excess of the total vote in each of the following States: Delaware, Florida, Idaho, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, North Dakota, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Ver- mont, and Wyoming. That the undeveloped resources of the Territory promise for the proposed State a magniticent future. Coal, oil, gas, salt, asphaltum, granite, and zinc are already discovered in almndance, and there are evidences of gold and silver in the Wichita Mountains. That in all the elements that go to make up an ad\'anced and pro- gressive civilization, in the number of its population, and in the nvate- rial resources necessarv to sustain a state government, Oklahoma is far in advance of any Territory ever admitted. On the 28d of ]Niay, 1896, the Committee^ on Territories of the House of Representatives reported in favor of the admission of Oklahoma, concluding the report as follows: In the opinion of the committee no Territory has ever been Ijetter fitted to enter the Union as a State. Your memorialists call attention to the report of the governor of the Territory, setting forth the most remarkable development of the last few years. A¥hile his report reads like a romance, it is neverthe- less true. The governor well says: Here to-day is a growing, progressive American community of more than half a million ])eople, successful in all lines of life work, with schools and colleges and universities beyond those of half the States; with a code of laws equal to those of any State; with a taxable wealth sufficient to carry on all of the functions and insti- tutions of self-government without burdening the people. Who, then, can give any good reason why all the rights and priWleges of self-government should not be accorded these people? Let him wlio disputes the claim of Oklahoma to a place in the galaxy of States carefully peruse the pages of this report as showing the past progress, "present conditiims and future possibilities of the Territory, and he can not but be convinced, even against his will, of her right to statehood. With a population greater than that of any Territory ever admitted to statehood, and greater than that of twelve different States of the Union at this time; with a taxable valuation greater than that of any State of the Union at its admission; with a school population almost double" the average population of all of the States when granted self-government; with an area almost equal to that of the State of Ohio, and greater than that of thirteen States; with a free school within easv distance of every home and a higher college or university education offered wit'hout prit;e to all of the youth of the Territory, of whatever race or sex or condi- tion; with well-governed cities and counties, and laws enforced in every way; with a people 96 per cent American born, and all loyal and patriotic citizens; with an NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 297 annual prodnrtiDU of 25,000,000 bushels of wheat, 00,000,000 l.uslicls of eorii, 150,000 l)aleH of cotton, and other ajj:ricultural products in proportion, and herds that pas.s the million mark; with a financial record without a stain of default or rei)udiation; with a financial, conunercial, and business growth ecjualed ])y no other State or Ter- ritory, is not Oklahoma clearly entitled to admission to the sisterhood of States? In (.•oiu-lusioM. we call the attontion of Conoross to the fact that res- olutions were adopted ])y all the Presidential iiominatino- conventions in 1900, promising- the admission of Territories as States. The people of Oklahoma now ask that the pledges thus made be redeemed, and that they be allowed to enjoy the rights and benetits which belong- to the people of a sovereign State. Respectfully submitted. Sidney Clarke. A. J. Seay, F. E. (ilLLETT, Dick T. MoR(iAN, Meat or'tal L 'omm It tec. EXHIBIT M. A STATEMENT IN REGARD TO THE OKLAHOMA FEDERAL LAND GRANT, PRESENTED BY THE NORMAN COMMERCIAL CLUB, OF NORMAN, OKLA. To the Coiinnittee on Territories, United States Senate, Hon. Albert J. Beveridge, chainnan: I. A Statement of Conditions. 1. Oklahoma has a Federal land grant of some 2,060,000 acres (nearly seventeen-twentieths of the grant being- for education) now leased' on three-year leases and yielding a rapidly increasing income. 2. A gain or loss of but 50 cents an acre on these lands means a gain or loss of §1,000,000 to Oklahoma. 3. Some 8,0(»0or 10.000 lessees are strongly organized to control the tirst State legislature and force the sale of the lands ''as raw lands." They have paid lobbyists, attorneys, and " official organs " working to that end. 4. The Flynn statehood bill provides no minimum price for the lands. Moreover, the bill has been construed by an ex-attorney -general for Oklahoma as making the sale of the lands mandatory without giving- the citizens of Oklahoma a chance to vote on the question. 5. The people of Oklahoma are not yet awake to the magnitude of these interests, to their duty to posterity, or to their general responsi- bility as guardians of this great trust. If the question of the disposi- tion of these lands Avere to come to a popidar ))allot within the next' year, the interests of the State and the schools, both present and future, would in all prol^aliility be sacrificed to the demands of the lessees. 6. Because of the strength and aggressiveness of the lessee org-ani- zation and the seeming indifference of the general public, the politicians of ))oth parties, in order to secure the support of the lessees, are, for the most part, willing- to sacritice the lands by immediate sale at a nominal price. 298 NEW STATEHOOD KILL. 7. The historv of like endowments in other States shows that theii' disposition has crenerally been attended l)y g-ross fraud and shameful public plunder and that the resulting funds frequently have been em])ezzled and squandered or invested in bad securities and in a per- petual bonded State indebtedness. The following States are indebted, in the sums named, to their educa- tional funds: Illinois $1,165,000 Wisconsin 1, 563, 000 Missouri 4, 300, 000 Michigan : "4, 300, 000 Ohio ; 4, 500, 000 These sums have been used by the States named for current expenses and public improvements, and now stand as irreducible State debts, on which the present and all future generations must raise interest income by taxation. II. The Friends of this Interest Desire — 1. Such a clause in the statehood bill now before Congress as will give the citizens of Oklahoma a direct vote on the question of the sale of these lands. '1. Because of the strong organization to force the sale of the lands at a price far less than their real value, we desire a clause in the l)ill that will take the lands oti' the market for the next five years, until the (juestion of their sale can be put fairly ))efore the people of Oklahoma, and the}' realize the tremendous interests at stake. 3. As Nebraska and the city of Chicago are meeting- with great suc- cess with a public-leasing system on long-time leases, we ask that the statehood bill permit the State of Oklahoma, if it will, to adopt a sys- tem of long-time leases (say twenty-tive years) to the occupying lessees, with provisions under our constitution for fair reappraisements at reasonable intervals. •1. As our public lands are unevenly distributed over the Territory, causing local jealousies by loss of iocal taxes, it is important that Congress permit us, under a leasing s^^stem, to refund to the country, township, or school district in which a given tract of public land lies such a per cent of the net income from that tract as our constitutional convention may provide (but not to exceed, say. 'lb per cent), except that where the lands have been selected in large solid bodies, as in the indemnity lands, or where public lands ha\-e been or may lie laid out and leased as town or city lots, a sum not to exceed, say, 40 or 50 per cent of the net ground rentals from such lands or lots may be refunded to the county, township, school district, city, or town in which such tract lies, said refunded sums to })e used locally for such educational or other pul)lic ^xirposes as the legislature acting under our constitution may provide. Such refunding can not be done without permission of Congress and is highly essential to the establishment of a smooth and safe working management of the grant. 6. The heart of the matter is this: In making the Federal land grant Congress should see to it that the endowment is secured to the intended beneficiaries and that it is not turned over to the State unprotected, probably to fall under the control of an organization whose self-seeking would defeat the purposes of Congress in making this grant. « Or more. NKW STATEHOOD HILL. 299 ADDITIONAL STATEMENT. Ohio was admitted in 1S()2, l)ut was not authorized by Conoress to sell her school lands until 1820 (4 U. S. Stats., 138), nor her salt lands, which were devoted to education, until 1824. (4 V. S. Stats., 79.) Indiana was admitted in 181<), but was not authorized by Congress to sell her school lands until 1828 (4 V. S. Stats., 2!>8), nor her salt lands, which likewise were deyoted to education, until 1832. (4 U. S. Stats., 5.58.) Illinois was admitted in 18 18. She sold her school lands without authority from Congress in 1831. (Illinois laws 1831, 173.) Congress in 1843 legalized and ratified all sales thus made (5 U. S. Stats., 600) and authorized the sale of the remaining portion. These facts should furnish sufficient precedent for holding up the sale of Oklahoma's lands for a reasonable period, such as is asked in this memorial. A mininuun sale price and a time limitation would haye the same purpose in yiew, yiz. to secure the State in its endow- ment. We belieye the time limitation would serye the purpose more etlectiyely. There is no excuse for haste in the disposition of this grant. The State should be giyen a chance to make a fair tight for its interests. L. J. Edwards, President. November 24, 1902. THE NORMAN COMMERCIAL CLUB GOES ON RECORD AGAINST THE SALE OF THE SCHOOL LANDS OF OKLAHOMA. Tuesda}^ night, November 18, 1902, the Commercial Club of Norman, by a unanimous vote, passed the following resolutions; " Whereas the Federal Goyernment has granted to the future State of Oklahoma an endowment of some 2,000,000 acres of public lands, of which nearly seventeen-twentieths is expressly reserved for educational purposes; and Whereas approaching statehood will force upon Oklahoma the adop- tion of some permanent policy relative to this great endowment; and Whereas the history of similar endowments in other States shows that their disposition has been attended l)y gross frauds and shameful scenes of public plunder whereby the intended beneficiaries in many cases have been deprived of the greater part of their endowment; and Whereas the sale of our public lands would not enable Oklahoma to avoid some form of tenant systeuL as witness Kansas, with «iO,92() tenant farms, all private (census of 1900), as against Nebraska, with 44,810 tenant farms (25,000 of them under State control), and witness, further, the entire United States, with 35.3 ])er cent of its farms held under the private tenant system; and Whereas Nebraska has developed a highly successful plan of State leasing for its unsold school lands; and Whereas we believe that a public system of long-time leasing to present occupants, with provisions for fair reappraisements at reason- able intervals, would best conserve the interests of the pul>lic, avoid the daup-ers of loss by embezzlement and bad investment, from which HOO NEW STATEHOOD HILL. the school funds of otluu- Stat(\s have sutiVrod, and at the same time be just and fair toward the lessees; and Whereas the school-land lessees, in close and powerful oi'oanization, have publicly resolved to force the innnediate sah* of thcs(> lands to themselves ''as raw lands" and to support oidy such candidates for the leyislature as will work to this end: Therefore, Br !f ju.solrrd bt/ tlte (Jomnierddl Chib of Noniud)^ (Jkh(.: 1. That we unalterably oppose any action lookin^f to the sale of these lands except it be of certain portions of the indemnity lands where public policy may render their sale expedient. 2. That we favor the insertion of a clause in the pending statehood bill prohibitino- tht^ sale of these lands for a period of five years after admission to statehood and not thereafter until the electors of the State shall have so directed by popular ])aIlot. 3. That we favor the insertion of a section in the State constitution that will ]>ut the management of this endowment on a conservative, nonpartisan, l)usiness basis in the intiM'ests of the people and the schools of Oklahoma, thereby removing- this question from the pos- sibility of legislative juggling and eliminating it as an issue in the future politics of the State. 4. That this resolution be furnished the Territorial press with request to publish, and to the various commercial organizations of the Territory. L. J. Edwards, President. November 24, 1902. CONVENTION CLOSED YESTERDAY — THE LESSEES FORM PERMANENT ORGANIZATION — COUNTIES WILL ORGANIZE — THE TERRITORIAL OFFI- CIALS WERE ELECTED — CONSTITUTION WAS ADOPTED — STRONG BODY 0R(;ANIZED to SECLTRE the sale of SCHC^OL lands of the TERRI- TORY. [OkliihoiiiM City Tiines-.Touriial of Tuesday, July 29, 1902.] The convention of the school-land lessees yesterda^y closed after the election of the officers and the passage of a resolution that there be meetings held in each county of the Territory in wdiich the school lands are located on Tuesday. August 12, at which time there are to ])e county organizations formed. The following is the list of ofHcei-s elected: The four candidates nominated for the presidency were C. ^V. Oliu- stead, A. C. Notson. J. R. Cowg(M-, and N. D. March. A majority of all votes cast was recpiired, the candidate getting the smallest vote to drop out of the contest. The tirst ballot resulted as follows: Olmstead, 227; Notson, 88; Cowger, 217; March, m. (598 ballots.) Second ballot: Olmstead, 1:18; Notson, SS; Cowger, 316. Mr. Olmstead was declared unanimously elected and made a neat speech of thanks. His home is at Luther. For secretarv the first ballot resulted: L. Bissell, 241; A. McTaggart, 250; A. C. Notson, 2o7. Second ballot: McTaggart, 315; Bissell, 431. (74H ballots.) Mr. Bissell resides at Kildare, Kay County. For treasurer the first ballot resulted as follows: J. B. Tate, of Perrv, 375; J. W. Stonebraker, of Lincoln County, 284. (659 ballots.) NEW statp:h«h>d hill. 301 The followiiio" is the constitution that was adopted l)y the convention for the permanent organization: This organization shall be known as The Territorial Lessees' Union. Article L Having as its object the proniotion of the moral, financial, and general welfare of the lessees of school lands in Oklahoma and the promotion of all other matters affecting the leasing, jjreservation, imiirovenient, and sale of snch lands. Akt. 2. This organization shall )>e conn)oseil of the several county organizations organized for like purposes in the Territory of Oklahoma, which said county organi- zations shall be cunstituted toext-rcise the powers hereinafter stated. Art. 3. The otiicers of this organization shall be a president, as many vice-i)resi- ()D kill. with the exception of Cii^iter, Logan, Gartield, Wa«hita, Greer, and Beaver. The best-represented counties were Oklahoma. Noble, and Lincoln. The convention was called to ord(M' at 2 o'clock, after which J. K. (/owger. of Wellston, was made temporary chairman and L. Bissell, of Kildare. Kay County, temporary secretary. The selection of temporary otiicials was then followed by the appoint- ment of committees on credentials, resolutions, order of business, constitution, and by-laws. A. delegate f rom^ each county represented was placed on the com- mittees mentioned above. After the appointment of committees the convention adjourned until 1.30 o'clock this afternoon. In conversation with a representative of this paper this afternoon. Secretary Bissell said: This organization will be made permanent, and the purpose of this convention is for the making of a law to protect the school-land lessees and future sale of lands, and to give the lessees the preference to purchase the lands when Oklahoma becomes a State. This afternoon at 2 o'clock Chairman Cowger called the convention to order, with all delegates present. The committee on credentials made a report to the effect that all counties should be entitled to representation with the exception of Gai-field, Kiowa, Washita, Custer, Day, and <;reer. The report was adopted. < )n motion each delegate was allowed to cast the full vote for the county he represented. The committee on permanent organization then reported its business tran.sacted during the noon hour. The committee recommended that the organization shall be known as the Tnited Lessees' Union of Okla- homa. The committee also recommended that the otficers of the asso- ciation be coiuposed of a president, vice-president, secretary, and treasurer and that each officer serve for a period of one year and that the voting be done by ballot. The report Avas laid aside for the pres- ent. The organization was then made permanent. The chairman here appointed Messrs. Durand, Taggart. and Smith to pi'cpare an order of business. The committee on resolutions then reported as follows: First. RexolrcfJ, That we emphatically express our dissent to the idea that these lands should be under a perpetual tenant system. Second. That we therefore demand that such legal action shall be taken by our first State legislature regarding these lands that will bring them to sale at as early a date as practicable, at an appraised valuation as raw lands according to quality, the lessees to have the preference right of purchase at the appraised value, and be secure in the value of the improvements he has placed upon the farm. Third. That we V)elieve that this can be done in such a way as to secure the ten- ants in their just rights and at the same time protect the Oklahoma school land from loss. Fourth. That if any lessee should fail to purchase at appraised value the same shall l)e sold to the highest Ijidder, and said purchaser to pay for improvements on said land. Fifth. That we pledge ourselves to the support of such men to the Territorial legis- lature as will do all in their power to bring the school lands on the market in accord- ance with the above resolutions. Sixth. That the Territorial convention pass a vote of thanks to the press for their kindness in publishing a call for this convention. A. McTAG(iEHT, Chairman. C. W. Olmsted, Secretan/. The above report was passed as read. It was advocated that the land east of range l-t be sold in quarter sections and the land west of there be sold in sections. Officers to serve until the tirst Tuesday in January, 1902, will be elected late this afternoon. APPENDIX. Santa Fe, N. Mex., Xn sent out for animal reports ])y county superintendents. These are now being received, but can not be tabulated before December 31. upon which date the supei'intendent of pubHc instruction is rcfjuired to make anmial report to the governor of the Territory. Nor does the list herewith presented include another very important group of teachers who for many years past have contributed much to the educationid advancement of the youth of New Mexico-— i. e.. the several sectarian institutions which "employ 160 teachers, of which 72 are Roman Catholic and 87 represent the Protestant faith. Presbyte- rian, Methodist, Baptist, and Congregational— and which own school ]n-operty in the Territory to the value of .^250,000 and train annually some 6,000 pupils. Also there is excluded from this list the names of teachers engaged in private sectarian mission and Government Indian education— such schools in New Mexico numbering 38, employing 110 teachers and giving instruction to nearly 2.500 Indian children. As far as can be approximated from reports thus far rendered and covering the current year, the total numl)er of school-teachers employed in New^ Mexico at tliis time is 1.100, who are engaged in the training of more than 50,000 pupils to the true standard of American citizen- ship, and the total value of our school pi'operty is fully ^2.500.000. In this connection your honorable committee will, under the circum- stances, I hope, pardon me for quoting here an extract from a former report, as follows: While it is a fact that New Mexico for many years has directly taxed her people more heavily per capita for the establishment and maintenance of a good system of public schools than four-fifths of the older States in the ITnion, we have been per- sistently held up to public scorn, and often grossly misrepresented at Wasliington and throughout the Eastern States for our alleged lack of school facilities and reputed want of interest in educational matters. * * * 303 304 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. This Territory has been neglected and uncared for by the National Government in resi)eet to ednoational matters for more than fifty years, while to-day we witness the sending of school-teachers in shiijloads to I\)rto Rico, Cuba, and the Philippines, at Government expense. If, half a century ago, as by every moral and humane right they should have done, the United States had thus sent train loads of teachers into New Mexico, this population would rank to-day with the most enlightened com- numities of our common country. Instead, the Federal Government has i)ersistently ignored the true citizenship of the Territory, but has taxed them to contribute to its sul)stance, a part of which is being expended to-day to educate the Porto Rican and the Filipino, for the "education" — God save the mark — of several thousand long- haired, blanketed Indians. Therefore, for what they have learned the people of New Mexico are entitled to the more credit, owing to the fact that the parent Government has never given one cent toward the uplifting of the masses which came peacefully to its protecting care under the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. Very respectfullv submitted. J. Franco Chavez, Siij^eriiili'inhiit Pidilic InMructiiDi, ftc. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 305 EXHIBIT N. The following- is taken from a transcript of the criminal docket of the United States court of the second judicial district of the Territory of New Mexico, beginning with case No. 11:^8 and ending with case No. 12088, the transcript of each case having been certitied by the clerk of said court: No. 1128, United States of America r. Yee Yene. Crime, beinjr unlawfully within the United States. No. 1129, United States of America v. Charley Fong. Crime, l)eing unlawfully within the United States. No. 1130, United States of America v. Lee Tong. Crime, being unlawfully within the United States. No. 1131, United States of America c. Yee Ar Lun. Crime, being unlawfully within the United States. No. 1132, United States of America v. Yee Kee Wah. Crime, being unlawfully within the United States. No. 1133, United States of America v. Josefa Tenorio. Crime, contempt in not obeying subpiena in 1070. No. 1134, United States of America v. Ignacio Lopez. Crime, contempt in not obeying subpcena in 1070. No. 1135, United States of America v. Paz Garcia. Crime, contempt in not obey- ing grand-jury subpoena. No. 1136, tfnited States of America v. Miguel Gonzales. Crime, contempt in not obeying grand-jury subptiena. No. 1137, United States of America v. Manuel Morales. Crime, contempt in not obeying grand jury sul)pa>na. No. 1138, United States of America v. Mariano Armijo. Crime, bigamy. No. 1139, United States of America v. Mariano Armijo. Crime, adultery. No. 1140, United States of America v. Antonio Ballejos. Crime, bigamy. No. 1141, United States of America v. Francisco Chavez. Crime, fornication. No. 1142, United States of America v. Marcelina Padilla. Crime, bigamy. No. 1143, United States of America v. Emilio Aragon. Crime, adultery. No. 1144, United States of America r. Finia Chavez, alias Finia Chavez de ]\Iolina, alias Finia Chavez de Revalia. Crime, bigamy. No. 1145, United States of America r. Luis Silva. Crime, adultery. No. 1146, United States of America v. Dolores Sandoval, alias Dolores Sandoval de Chavez. Crime, adultery. No. 1147, United States of America v. Manuel Chavez. Crime, adultery. No. 1148, United States of America r. Tomasita Serna de (Talindro. Crime, adultery. No. 1149, United States of America v. Enrique Benavides. Crime, adultery. No. 1150, United States of America r. Juliana Lobato. Crime, adultery. No. 1151, United States of America v. Francisco Rael. Crime, adultery. No. 1152, United States of America v. Petra Chavez de Moya. Crime, adultery. No. 1153, United States of America v. Richard Dermandy. Crime, fornication. No. 1154, United States of America r. Lillie Belmont. Crime, fornication. No. 1155, United States of America r. John Matthew Tice. Crime, fornication. No. 1156, United States of America r. Ethel Sweet, alias Byra Smith. Crime, fornication. No. 1157, United States of America v. John Stein. Crime, fornication. No. 1158, United States of America v. Nieves Chavez. Crime, fornication. No. 1159, United States of America v. James T. Smith. Crime, contempt in not obeying grand jury subptena. No. 1160, United States of America v. Good Eye, or Indian Charley. Crime, con- tempt in not obeying grand jury subpoena. No. 1161, United States of America v. John Morrison. Crime, removal to Texas. No. 1162, United States of America v. C. A. Hudson. Crime, contempt. No. 1163, United States of America v. Caesar Grande. Crime, contempt. No. 1164, United States of America v. Rafael Galoaldon. Crime, contempt. No. 1165, United States of America v. Juan Chavez y Trujillo. Crime, contempt. No. 1166, United States of America v. Manuel Montoya. Crime, contempt. No. 1167, United States of America v. W. B. INIcLaughlin. Crime, contempt. No. 1168, United States of America v. Salvador Toledo. Crime, contempt in not obeying grand jury subpoena. No. 1169, United States of America r. Epimenio A. Miera. Crime, violation of postal laws. H S B 20 30(i NKW STATEHOOD BILL. No. 1170, raited States of America /•. Epimenio A. Miera. Crime, violation of postal lawy. No. 1171, United States of America v. Jnan Jose Salazar. Crime, violation of postal laws. No. 1172, Unite: Lewis E. Densmore and Jose S. Baca. Crime, murder. No. 2031, United States of America r. Sam Sing. Crime, reusing postage stamps. No. 2032, United States of America r. W. S. Willis and Virginia Reed. Crime, adulterv. No. 2033, United States of America r. Marie German. Crime, embezzling letter. No. 2034, United States of America v. Tonias C. Montoya. Crime, adultery. No. 2035, United States of America r. Diego Serna and Gregoria F. Listwick. Crime, adultery. (No bill.) No. 2036, United States of America r. John AVhalen and Elizabeth Waichawicus. Crime, adulterv. (No bill.) No. 2037, ITnited States of America r. Jose Baca. Crime, murder. No. 2038, United States of America v. Lewis E. Densmore. Crime, murder. No. 2039, United States of America r. Anna Hamilton and A. J. Martin. Crime, adultery. No. 2039, United States of America r. A. J. ^Martin. Crime, adultery. No. 2040, United States of America v. Transito ]klartinez and Felipa IMontoya de Garcia. Crime, adulterv. No. 2041, United States of America >: Ernest A. Titjen. Crime, bigamy, polygamy, unlawful cohabitation, adulterv, fornication. No. 2042, United States of America r. Hoo Gun. Crime, being unlawfully within the United States. (Before J. W. Crumpacker, committing magistrate.) No. 2043, United States of America r. Woo Sing. Crime, being unlawfully within the United States. ( Before J. W. Crumpacker as a committing magistrate. ) No. 2044, United States of America v. B. H. Shaw. Crime, violation of postal laws. ( Before J. ^V. Crumpacker as a committing magistrate. ) No. 2045, United States of America r. Ju Heang. Crime, being unlawfully within the United States. (Before J. W. Crumpacker as a committing magistrate. ) No. 2046. United States of America >•. Lem Chong. Crime, being unlawfully within the United States. No. 2047, United States of America r. Ah AVong. Crime, being unlawfully within the United States. 308 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. No. 2048, Ihiited States of America r. p:ilis Winders. Crime, contempt in not obeying summons. No. 2049, United States of America c. Pantaleon Mora. Crime, embezzlement. (No bill.) No. 2050, United States of America v. B. H. Shaw. Crime, embezzlement. No. 2051, United States of America r. B. H. Shaw. Crime, embezzlement. No. 2052, United States of America v. Lui Lang. Crime, forging a Chinese certifi- cate. No. 2053, United States of America r. Ju Heang. Crime, forging a Chinese certif- icate. No. 2054, United States of America r. Zenon Sandoval. Crime, contempt for fail- ure to obey summons. No. 2055, United States of America v. Narciso Gutierrez. Crime, contempt for faihire to obey summons. No. 2056, United States of America i: R. P. Hall. Crime, contempt for failure to obey summons. No. 2057, United States of America v. J. A. Hubbs. Crime, contempt for failure to obev summons. No. 2058, United States of America v. Felipa Montoya de Garcia, G. E. Wilson, and ^Irs. G. E. Wilson. Crime, scire facias in 2040. No. 2059, United States of America v. Woo Sing. Crime, being unlawfully in the United States. (Appeal.) No. 2060, United States of America r. Robert L. Sunner. Crime, stealing United States mail. Xo. 2061, United States of America r. Robert L. Sunner. Crime, stealing letter. United States mail. No. 2062, United States of America v. Charley (Navajo Indian). Crime, . No. 2063, United States of America v. Charley Boy (Navajo Indian). Crime, . No. 2064, United States of America r. Francisco Bedillo. Crime, selling liquor to Indian. No. 2065, United States of America c. Charles ]\IcCoy. Crime, murder. No. 2066, United States of America r. Dave Weinman. Crime, contempt. No. 2067, United States of America r. Jennie Turner. Crime, violation postal laws. No. 2068, United States of America r. B. H. Shaw. (No bill). No. 2069, United States of America r. Henry T. Woodard. Crime, counterfeiting. No. 2070, United States of America v. Adblph Quinzer. Crime, manslaughter. (No bill.) No. 2071, United States of America /•. Navajo Charley. Crime, failure to obey subpoena. No. 2072, United States of America r. Daniel :Miller. Crime, selling liquor to Indians. No. 2073, United States of America r. Charles Boggio. Crime, selling liquor to Indians. No. 2074, United States of America v. Rose Roat. Crime, selling liquor to Indians. No. 2075, United States of America ?•. Dad Benson, whose name is to the grand jurors otherwise unknown. Crime, selling liquor to Indians. No. 2076, United States of America r. John Sherman. Crime, selling liquor to Indians. No. 2077, United States of America >: Petra Chavez, Julian Cane. (No bill). No. 2078, United States of America *■. Joe Spears. Crime, indictment for disposing of intoxicating liquor in southern district of Indian Territory. No. 2079, United States of America r. Ja Min Ni, Neh, alias Crazy, Nachi Neez (3 Indians). Crime, . No. 2080, United States of America v. Yictoriana Sedillo, Alejandre Sedillo. Cnme, accused of adultery. (No bill. ) No. 2081, United States of America r. Andrew Casna. Crime, selling liquor to Indians. No. 2082, United States of America v. Barney Grosse. Crime, selling liquor to Indians. No. 2083, United States of America /■. Thomas McConkey. Crime, selling liquor to Indians. No. 2084, United States of America r. Mrs. Peter Delavante. Crime, selling liquor to Indians. No. 2085, United States of America /•. Jacobo Garcia and Feliciana Garcia. (No bill.) ■ No. 2086, United States of America r. Francisca J. Garcia. Crime, perjury. No. 2087, United States of America /■. Francisca J. Garcia. Crime, perjury. No. 2088, United States of America r. Ed Scarborough. Crime, smuggling. KEW MEXK O TERRITORY. INDEX OF WITNESSES. Las Vegas: ^^^^• Judge \Vm. J. Mills 1 Nepomuceno Segura - •! Wm. E. Gortner t 6 Secundino Romero "_ Miss Georgia Murray " Miss Francesca Zana 9 Enrique Armijo 9 Enrique H. Salasar - 11 Jesus Maria Tefova 12 Pablo I'libarri . ." l'^ Diamo Deo Sena 1^ Jose Lino Rivera 16 H. S. Wooster 1" Eugenio Rudolph 19 Pablo Jaramillo -0 F. O. Blood 20 Rafael Gallegos -, 2] Miss Maggie J. Bucher 28 Felipe Baca y Garcia 25 Cleofes Romero 26 Santa Fe: J. Francisco Chavez 27 Judge John R. McFie 28 Miss Barbara Perea y Risarri 30 Jose D. Sena 31 Facundo Ortiz '^^ Clementa P. Ortiz p5 Ambrosio Ortiz 36 Joseph P. Conklin 3^ James D. Hughes 3 / Francisco Anaya 39 A. M. Bergere 39 Chas. M. Conklin -10 Jose Maria Garcia "H Cainilo Padilla 42 Juvencio Quintana 42 Leonardo Duran 43 Paul A. F. Walters 43 Pedro Sanchez 44 Albuquerque: Judge Benj. S. Baker 45 Nesto^- Montova 47 G. W. Metzgar 50 Seferino Crollott 51 Modesto C. Ortiz 53 Eslavio Vigil 54 Wm. Borchert 56 A. J. Crawford 57 Wm. J. ( )liver 58 C. F. Mvers 59 Thos. Hughes 63 309 310 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Albuquerque — Contiuued. Page. Hon. Win. B. Chikler? 66 C. M. Foraker 74 Abran Abeyta 77 James A. Sunnners 78 W. E. Dame 78 Anastacio C. Torres : 78 H. G. Baea 79 A. A. Sedillo 80 Chas. P. Newhall 81 Prof. Wm. Geo. Tight 81 Chas. K. Hodgin 83 Atanaoio ]\Iontoya 84 Hon. B. S. Rodey 84 O. N. Marron . . .* 90 Willard S. Hopewell 91 N. E. Hickey 93 Las Graces: Judge Frank W. Parker 96 INIanuel Lopez 98 Jose ( ronzales .' 98 Samuel A. Steele 99 Maj. Eugene Van Patten 99 Isador Armijo 100 F. D. Hunt 102 Marcel Valdez 102 Francis E. Lester 102 Allen J. Papen 103 Elias E. Day 103 Martinez Amador 104 Jolm J. Vernon 106 Martin Lohman 107 El Paso: Judge Daniel H^ McMillan 109 Carlsbad: Francis Gallatin Tracy 113 L. O. Fullen 115 James O. Cameron 117 James 0. Cameron (recalled ) 120 Wm. C. Reiff 118 R. W. Tansill 118 Exhibits: A. — Certified copy of jury lists and indictments (Las Vegas) 236-240 B. — List of school-teachers in New Mexico _ 240-244 C— Certified copy of jury lists, first judicial district, New Mexico 245-255 D. — Jury lists and pay rolls. United States district courts. New Mexico. 255-282 E.— Legal notices from probate clerk's office ( Albuquerque ) 282 F. — Certified copy of judgment in United States district court, second district (Albuquerque) 282-293 G. — Bank statement ( Albuquerque ) 293 H. — Justice of the peace forms 293 N.— Transcript criminal docket, second judicial district 305-308 Appendix: Letter, J. Francisco Chavez, superintendent schools, New Mexico. 303-304 INDEX OF SUBJECTS. Population, racial division and language: Judge Wm. J. Mills 1 Secundino Romero 7 Cleopas Romero 26 J. Francisco Chavez 27 Judge John R. McFie 28 J ose D. Sena 31 Paul A. F. Walters 43 Pedro Sanchez 44 Judge Benj. S. Baker 45 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 811 Population, rat'ial division and language — Continued. \'>igi^. C. F. Myers 59 James A. Summers 78 W. E. Dame 78 H. G. Baca 79 Willard S. Hopewell 91 Isadore Armijo 100 James 0. Cameron 117-120 United States courts — Language, crimes, and interpreters: Judge Wm. J. Mills 1 Nepomuceno Segura 4 Wm. E. Gortner 6 Secundino Romero 7 Judge John R. McFie 28 Jose D. Sena 31 Judge Benj. S. Baker 45 Nestor Montoya 47 C. M. Foraker 74 A. A. Sedillo 80 Judge Frank W. Parker 96 Judge Daniel H. McMillan 109 Schools and colleges: Miss Georgia Murray 7 Miss Francesca Zana 9 Enrique Armijo 9 Miss Maggie J. Bucher 23 J. Francisco Chavez 27 Wm. J. Oliver (Indian school) 58 Anastasio C. Torres 78 Prof. Wm. (ieorge Tight 81 Chas. E. Hodgin 83 Atanasio Montova 84 N. E. Hickey ./ 93 Francis E. Lester 102 Elias E. Day 103 John J. Vernon 106 Martin Lohmaii 107 Newspapers (Spanish and English): Enrique H . Salasar 11 F. O. Blood 20 James D. Hughes 37 Paul A. F. Walters 43 Jose G( )nzales 98 F. D. Hunt 102 Marciel Valdez 102 Allen J. Papen 103 L. O. Fullen 115 Petty courts (justice of the peace and police) — Language used, crimes charged, etc. : A. J. Crawford 57 Jesus Maria Tefova 12 H. S. Wooster . . .' 17 Francisco Anaya 39 Felipe Baca v (Tarda 25 Chas. M. Cohklin 40 Jose Maria (jarcia 41 Juvencio Quintana 42 Leonardo Duran 43 Seferino Crollott 51 W^m. Borchert 56 Manuel Lopez , 98 Census — Language and racial division: Pablo Ulibarri 13 Diano Deo Sena 14 Jose Lino Rivera 16 Eugenio Rudolph 19 Pablo Jaramillo 20 312 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Census — Language and racial divisiou — Continued. Page. Rafael Callegos -' 21 Miss Barbara Perea y Risarri 30 Facundo Ortiz 34 Clementa P. Ortiz 35 Anibrosio Ortiz 36 Joseph P. Conklin 37 Cainilo Padilla -12 Pedro Sanchez -44 G. \V. Metzgar 50 Seferino CroUott 51 Modesto C. Ortiz 53 Eslavio Vigil 54 Samuel A. Steele 99 Maj . Eugene \'an Patten 99 Isadore Armijo 100 Win. C. Reiff 118 General statements — Occupation, resources, development: C. F. Myers 59 Thos. Hughes 63 Hon. William B. Childers 66 Hon. B. S. Rodey 84 0. N. Marron 90 Willard S. Hopewell 91 Martinez Amador 104 Martin Lohman 107 R. W. Tansill - 118 James 0. Cameron 117 County and municipal government offices: Cleojias Romero 26 C. F. Myers 59 Abran Abey ta ^ 77 H . G. Baca 79 Chas. P. Newhall 81 Isadore Armijo -- 100 Banks: Chas. P. Newhall 81 Irrigation : John J . Vernon 106 Francis Gallatin Tracy 113 R. W. Tansill " 118 TEHRITOHY OF AHIZONA. INDEX OF WITNESSES. Prescott: P^^^- Henry Martin 121 J. J.Sanders 122 Judge Richard E. Sloan j 123 F. A. Tritle 128 Julius N. Rodenberg 129 William S. Marts 1 30 E. B. Moden 130 Phoenix: Benjamin A. Fowler 132 Judge Joseph H. Kibbey 140 C. T. Walters 1-45 J. E. Stovall 146 M. H. McCord 147 Pedro Garcia de la Lama 148 J. J. Otero 148 D wight B. Heard 149 Frank Luke l''>0 Frank I\L Murphy 150 Governor Alexander 0. Brodie 155 Judge Nelson G. Layton 160 J. C. Adams " 161 Tucson : John E. Magee 162 W. L. G. Soule 163 Paul Jones 163 Thomas Hughes, jr 164 Prof. Frank Yale Adams 164 Judge George R. Davis 165 L. C. Hughes 166 James Flynn 168 William Angus 169 M.P. Freeman 170 Bisbee: Walter Douglass 170 Exhibits: I. Statements showing comparative growth of schools, etc 294 Prof. F. H. Newell, hydrographer, United States Geological Survey 173, 185 Maps accompany Professor Newell' s testimony face 186 INDEX OF SUBJECTS. Census, language, racial divisions: Henrv Martin 121 J. J. Sanders 122 F. A. Tritle 128 Julius N. Rodenberg 129 William S. Marts 130 C. T. Walters 145 J. E. Stovall 146 John E. Magee 162 W. L. G.Soule 163 Paul Jones 163 313 314 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. General statements: Page. Judge Richard E. Sloan 123 lienjaniin A. Fowler 132 Jndjie Joseph H. Kibbey 1-10 F. M. Murphy 150 Governor Alexander O. Brodie 155 United States courts, juries, and interpreters: Judge Richard E. Sloan 123 M. H. McCord, United States marshal 147 Judge Joseph H. Kibbey 140 Judge George R. Davis 165 Thomas Hughes, jr > 164 Newspapers, Spanish and English: Pedro Garcia de la Lama 148 J. J. Otero 148 L. C. Hughes 166 Railroads: F. M. Murphy - - 150 Occupation of people — Agriculture, mining, and stock raising: J udge Richard E. Sloan 123 J. J. Otero 148 F. M. Murphy 150 Governor Alexander O. Brodie 155 Walter Douglass 1 70 Licenses and taxes: E. B. Moden 130 Frank Luke 150 J. C. Adams 161 James Flynn 1C8 Schools and colleges: Governor Alexander 0. Brodie 155 Judge Nelson G. Layton 160 Prof. Frank Yale Adams 164 William Angus - 169 Irrigation : Benjamin A. Fowler 132 Dwight B. Heard 149 Banks and interest rates: M. P. Freeman 170 TERRITORY OF OKLAHOMA. INDEX OF WITNESSES. Woodward: Page. Oscar Von Fersen 187 A. G. Cunningham 188 Memo.— David P. Mennon 190 Oklatioma City: Anton H.'Classen 190 Wm. ]M. Newell ( of Norman ) 192 D. H. Wilson (of Vinita, Ind. T.) 193 Henry Marshall Ferman ( of Ardmore, Ind. T. ) 196 A. L.'Cate? (of Clareniore) 199 AV. A. Ledbetter (of Ardmore) 200 C. B. Ames (of Oklahoma City) 201 W. H. Trudgeon (of Purcell).' 202 A. B. White (of Sulphur, Ind. T.) 203 0. D. Halsell (of Oklahoma City) 204 S. T. Alton (of Oklahoma City)' 206 C. G. Jones (of Oklahoma City) 207 1. M. Holcomb (of Oklahoma City ) 208 T. B. Jones (of Oklahoma City) 209 Guthrie: Goy. Thos. B. Ferguson 210 Thos. M. Robnett (of Ardmore, Ind. T.) 216 Sidnev Clark 217 Thos.'H. Doyle (of Perry) 218 Ex-Goy. C. M. Barnes (of Guthrie) 222 S. T. Goodman (of Tonkawa) 223 Judge J. C. Strang 224 T. J. Lowe 225 L. G. Edwards (of Norman) 225 INDEX OF SUBJECTS. General conditions: Anton H. Classen 190 Henry ^Marshall Ferman 196 A. L.' Gates 199 C. B. Ames 201 O. D. Halsell 204 C. G. Jones 207 Goy. Thos. B. Ferguson 210 Tho.s. H. Doyle 218 Ex.-Gov. C. M. Barnes 222 Judge J. C. Strang 225 Conditions in Indian Territory: D. H.Wilson ." 193 Henry Marshall Ferman 196 A. L.'Cates 199 W. A. Ledbetter 200 AV. H. Trudgeon 202 A. B.AVhite 203 Thos. M. Robnett 216 315 316 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Single and separate statehood: Page. Wm. M. Newell 192 D. H. Wilson 193 Henrv IMarshall Ferman 196 A. L.*Cates 199 W. A. Ledbetter 200 C. B. Ames 201 W. H. Trudgeon 202 A. B.White 203 O. D. Halsell 204 S. T. Alton 206 C. G. Jones 207 Gov. Thos. B. Ferguson 210 Thos. M. Robnett. 216 Sidney Clark 217 Thos.'H. Dovle 218 Ex.-Gov. C. M. Barnes 222 Judge J. C. Strang 224 T. J. Lowe .- 225 Agricultural and industrial conditions: Oscar Von Fersen 187 A. G. Cunningham 188 Anton H. Classen 190 Henry Marshall Ferman 196 C. B. Ames 201 0. D. Halsell 204 Judge J. C. Strang 224 Assessed valuation of propertv and i-ates of taxation: Wm. M. Newell 192 A. B. White 203 S.T.Alton -. 206 C. G. Jones 207 Schools: A. G. Cunningham 188 1. M. Holcomb 208 School lands: David P. iSIennon 190 S. T. Goodman (Tonkawa) 223 Population : Oscar Von Fersen 187 A. G. Cunningham 188 Anton H. Classen 190 W. H. Trudgeon 202 C. G. Jones 207 Gov. T. B. Ferguson 210 Exhibits: K. — Picture of Epworth League University. (Omitted in printing on account of lack of time) M. — Memorial of Norman Commercial Club HEARINGS OF THE SENATE COMMITTEE ON TERRITORIES JUNE 28 AND 30, 1902, ON HOUSE BILL NO. 12543, PRO- VIDING FOR THE ADMISSION OF THE TERRITO- RIES OF ARIZONA, NEW MEXICO, AND OKLAHOMA TO STATEHOOD. 317 ADMISSION OF THE TERRITORIES OF ARIZONA, NEW MEXICO, AND OKLAHOMA TO STATEHOOD. Committee on Territories, United States Senate, Wa.s/im(/ton, D. C, Saturday, June 28^ 1902. The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. Present: Senators Beveridge (chairman). Bate, Bard, Heitfeld, and Kean. Present, also, Hon. Marcus A. Smith, Delegate from Arizona; Hon. Bernard S. Rodey, Delegate from New Mexico, and Hon. Dennis T. Flynn, Delegate from Oklahoma. The committee thereupon proceeded to the consideration of the bill (H. R. 1254:3) providing for the admission to statehood of the Territo- ries of Arizona, New Mexico, and Oklahoma. The chairman's presence being required at the Conuuittee on the Philippines, Senator Bard took the chair. The Acting Chairman. 1 regret that the chairman of the committee will not be able to be present during the hearing, as he is engaged on the Philippine Committee. The purpose of this bill is to give the Delegates in Congress an opportunity to speak to the statehood bill. 1 would suggest that w^e take them up alphabetically; and the gentlemen representing Arizona are invited to present any matters they desire to present. Mr. lioDEY. Unless the gentleman from Arizona desires to proceed, Mr. Chairman, I have here several citizens to-da}" who will not be here at a later day; and if The Acting Chairman. It is not expected, I believe, to have very long speeches here at present; and as Mr. Smith is desirous of getting away, I think we will hear him tirst, Mr. Kodey. All right, sir. The Actixg Chairman. I think it would be well to allow him to present what he desires tirst. Senator Bate. Allow me to say to you, gentlemen, that I do not think there is much division, in our committee, at least, upon the ques- tion before us; and it will therefore be a good plan if j'ou will abbre- viate what you have to say as much as you can. ]\Ir. Smith. One who has been in the service as long as I have is pretty apt to do that. STATEMENT OF HON. MAECUS A. SMITH, DELEGATE FEOM THE TERRITORY OF ARIZONA. Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, my idea for a proper hearing of these bills, and our purpose as far as Arizona is concerned, is to subsequently lay before the committee the 319 320 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. facts concerning its resources, which, we think, justify us in our appli- cation for admission as a State. Tliere has been a long straggle, especially on the part of Arizona and New Mexico, against this infamous Territorial system of govern- ment. Taking a ver^^ brief view of the political history so well iN;nown to you that it is only necessarv barely to alhide to it, the ordinance of 1787 provided that in the great northwestern part of the United States when any one of the subdivisions which were granted by Vir- ginia and the othe«r States to the General Government should obtain as man}' as 60,000 inhabitants it should be entitled to statehood, and should be adinitted into the Union of States. Thei'e was a direct guaranty on t4^ part of the Government to that effect, and it was fre- quently reen^^t^t^ after the adoption of the Constitution. That ordi- nance did not Include the present Territories of New Mexico, Arizona, or Oklahoma. But in the treaty that we entered into with the Mexican Government after the war with Mexico, the treaty of Guadaloupe Hidalgo, and sub- sequently — I do not think it was reiterated in the Gadsden purchase, but that onl}' covered a small part of the present Territory of Arizona — the same guaranty that had been given to the earlier Territories was repeated. By that treaty it was again guaranteed that these people who were liv- ing there, not in Arizona at that time, but within the present bound- aries of New Mexico, should have their country admitted as a State as the others had been. So we have gone from the first on that guaranty, and Congress has invariabl}" kept its word, except as to the two Territories of Arizona and New Mexico. Those two Territories have been made the mere whim and caprice of politicians and have been thrown as a shuttlecock through the political atmosphere until the people have become wearied with the burden from which they are everlastingly suffering — a govern- ment of carpethag rule, that was denounced in the Declaration of Inde- pendence and was filed as one of the articles of that great indictment against the mother counti'v. That has gone on from that da}' to this. Now, let us see what our claim is. We have, at the very lowest — and I want to deal squarely with you; I think I am putting it easily 25,000 below our present population — 160,000 people in the Territory of Arizona as well educated, aye, better educated in a general way, than any similar constituency in the United States of America. There has been some objection raised by those who know nothing about it to the Mexican population of New Mexico and Arizona. Even that condition does not apply to Arizona. My friend Rodey is well able to take care of it as far as New Mexico is concerned. In Arizona there are one or two small Spanish settlements. They are made up of the children and grandchildren of the peo})le who lived in this country years before the separation of that country from old Mexico. They have been educated in our public schools. They have intermarried with the better class of white people, and around us there ire Spanish-speaking people who are as good citizens as you will find anywhere. I do not refer, of course, to the common Spanish who occasionally come in from Mexico. I do not refer to the low and ordinary common laborer that you find at the lowest edge of every country. Some of them are in all of the Territories; but we have so small an amount of NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 321 them that thoy have no appreciable effect whatever on an election or on the public .spirit of the country. Our present population has come to us from every State in this Union. It is not made up of the illiterate; but it consists of the brave, fearless, well-educated boys from the different parts of the couiitry,. from Florida to Maine. The illiterate did not seek the hard environ- ment and the dangers that surrounded the early settlement of the West- It was the self-confident American boy that went. He has gone there;- ills children have been born in New Mexico, and are being Ijorn to-day all over Arizona — bone of your bone and tlosh of your tiesh, and peo- ple worthy of their illustrious sires. I may not be too boastful when I say that in the wider, the freer, and the opener development I think they are going to make even l)etter men than their fathers were. That is the kind of people that have Ijcen subject to a miserable car- petl)ag gov^ernment and have been pillaged by Congress during all this time — Mexico for fifty years, Arizona since 1803; and it has kept up to this very hour without any abatement of the awful infamy. Why should they, of all the people in this Union, be selected to be- made the target of what seems almost to be malice and spite, as com- pared with the conduct of Congress toward the other States? _ We have three times the population — nay, four, five times the population— of the State of Nevada, which has not been badly represented among you most distinguished gentlemen ever since it came into the Union. It has a larger population than any one of the Western States that were recently admitted into the Union had Avhen they were admitted, except, I believe, the Territory of Washington. And now, for rea- sons inexplicable to us, we are told that we must still be kept out. Without going at this time into any mere question of statistics, I will give a brief outline of our reasons for asking statehood. I know that the census shows that we have a population of about 130,000. Senator Bard, our neighbor, will remember that that census was taken right in the heat of summer. We are an industrious people, and through the other months of the year we provide ways and means to send our families and children in the summer (and to go ourselves, when our business will permit), to the delightful resorts of southern California. That census was taken at a time of the year when our population was largely absent. Fully a third, I know, of the people of the great city of Phoenix were away, because the census enumeration shows that the city of Phoenix has 5,000 inhabitants. There is not a man in the Territory acquainted with it who does not know that the city of Phoenix to-day has 15,000 people. They have put the population of Tucson at 6,000. Tucson is not nearly as large as Phoenix, but Tucson has every one of ten or eleven thousand people, as the school census, the school attendance, and the voting population show. The town of Bisbee has, according to the census, 3,000 people. There are more than 3,000 people on the pay roll of its mines. As a matter of fact, Bisbee is a town of 7,500 people. You have the census of lOOO giving that sort of a population tothc Territory of Arizona, and this is what was taken right in the cities and towns. What do you think the enumerators did when they struck the great ranges of mountains that run for hundreds of miles, and are 50 miles across, full of miners and prospectors ? What did they do' H S B 21 322 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. for the great barns and the homes along the foothills of those moun- tains, or for the great cattle and sheep interests in the mountains and on the valley ranges? Who has ever taken them? The census has never taken"^ mv name, and you can not find one man in iive who ever saw a census enumerator in the Territory during that time. ^ The Department itself recognizes that the census is absolutely unreliable, and the reason is very plain. It is very evident. They could not attord to make it thorough. Senator Heitfeld. They could not take it in the time allowed, either, could thev? * Mr. Smith. They could not take it in the time allowed, and they could not hire horses at the price we charge and go through that coun- try and hunt these widely separated yet industrious and prosperous hamlets. They did not go to them at all, and the result is a mere naked, miserable guess. For fear of perjury they put down only what names they actually took, and, in my opinion, they did not take half of the people they should have taken. That was the census. That was the way they arrived at the popu- lation, and on that census an argument will be made, and has been made in another ]>ranch of this Congress, that we are unable to copy with the great question of statehood. Let us see how diti'erently Congress has acted with other people, and if our claim is not pretty well founded that we have been particularly singled out bv our friends for the slaughter. I read from a statement I made before the House on this subject when the question of the admission of Arizona was before that body : "Of the twentv-tive States admitted to the Union, beginning with Vermont in ITlJl and closing with Colorado in 1876, Maine and Kansas alone had as much as lOO.dOO population. Vermont, Kentucky, Mis- souri, and California are the only others which had as many as 50,000 population. In 183fi-37, the previous census giving the representative ratio of 47,700, Arkansas was admitted with 25,000 and Michigan with 31,000. From 1845 to 1848, when the representative ratio had reached 70,G00, Florida, Iowa, and Wisconsin were admitted to the Union — Florida, with 28,700; Iowa, with 43,000, and A\'isconsin, with 30,900. "Again, in 1858, when the ratio of representation had risen to 93,500, Minnesota was admitted on the previous census" — just what we have to work with here. ' ' Minnesota was admitted on the previous census, showing only 7,000 inhabitants, and the next year Oregon became a State with only 13,200 population. "In 1867, when the ratio had risen to over 127,000, Nebraska was taken in on a population of 28,800. and in 1876, the ratio having reached 131.500, Colorado came in with only 39,000." And yet these Territories for which we speak stand at this late day on exactly the same footing as the Philippine Islands and Porto Rico, except that they have been less favorably legislated for in this very session of Congress, because the carpetbag rule there is evidently well paid and does not need to steal. Mr. KoDEY. They get their own revenues, too, and we do not. Mr. Smith. They get more revenues, and get them from the National Government, while we take ours out of our own pockets and pay more per capita for the education of our children than any people have ever paid since Cadnnis sent the Bible up the avenues of time. And still tliey sit and wonder, and we wonder. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 323 With this history of these great States before j^ou, you can see some reasons for our protest. Will you observe, gentlemen, what we claim will happen in our Territories if they are made States? For the same old plea, that "you have no resources," that "your land is a part of the great desert," was applied to States that are now the most populous and thriving in the countr}^ You sit here, 3,0U0 miles away, and tell us we have nothing but des- erts on which to live, and that we can not build a State out of them. We answer that our near neighbors, our brothers, had exactl}' the same thing said about them as they went West. Furthermore, we say that we have made a State out of our country there and have filled it with a prosperous population that turns out every year twice as much per capita as any State in this Union; that puts into the wealth of the world every year twice as much per capita as any State in this Union. Senator Bate. That is on account of your copper mines, 1 suppose? Mr. Smith. It is on account of everything — copper mines, cattle, fruits, harvests, and so on. Senator Heitfeld. What is the assessed value of your real estate? Mr. Smith. 1 do not know at what figure the}^ put it. It is some- where in the figures I have here, to which I will call the attention of the committee later on. I do not know at what figure they put it; but 1 know that the assessed real valuation of the Territory, putting it at the very lowest possible sum, is $250,000,000. We have a mine worth nearly that amount. We have railroads running through our Territory that are assessed at onl}^ $5,000 a mile that we know are bonded for $40,000, and are paying a good dividend on their bonded indebtedness. And only one of those railroads is assessed at all. Now, that vast amount of propert}' will all become assessable when we become a State. Senator Bate. How do you happen to make a distinction? Why do you assess one and not the other? Mr. Smith. There is only one that is not a land-grant railroad. The others were land-grant roads and were exempted from taxation until the Territory should become a State. But I must sa}^ for the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railroad (and I say it to their credit) that they are voluntarily paying $175 a mile into the treasury of each county through which they pass, for the support of those counties, bj'' an arrangement made at this session of Congress. The assessed valuation of the property, however, is the point to which I am addressing myself. There is the great Copper Queen mine, belonging to Phelps, Dodge & Co., of New York, it is true, at Bisbee. There is the great property around Bisbee that is held by friends from the district of the Senator who sits opposite to me, Mr. Bard, by whom millions of dollars' worth of land is now owned. There are the great Clifton mines and the Shannon mines. There is the Commonwealth mine, owned largely by Mr. Penrose, a brother of the present Senator — an enormous, magnificent, gold-producing mine. There is the w^hole country north of Prescott, with every mountain range biinging forth its fruits to the general harvest of the world. It is to-day the most prosperous mining country on the face of the earth; and 3^et the mines are not assessed. No wonder, then, that even our county showings of the assessed valuation of the property are far from the real mark, and farther than the census showed our population to be. 324 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. So we are workinc^ aj^ainst these things, and we find each man hunt- ing up these little facts to put up ag-ainst us in the nature of a special pleader, without ever daring or attempting to explain why they hap- pened, and saying, "You are onl}' a little people with ^8(3,000,000 of assessable property, unable to carry on a State government," when, as a matter of fact, it is a bagatelle, not a drop in the bucket. The Acting Chairman, Wh}" are not the mines assessed? Mr. Smith. Because they come under the provisions of a Territorial statute passed in the earl}^ days that exempted mines from taxation, in an effort to encourage as much as possible the development of the mining industries of the countr^^ Then when the mines grew large and strong they were able to take care of themselves Senator Bate. Are mines assessed in anj^^ Territory? Mr. Smith. Oh, yes. Senator Heitfeld. They are not assessed in my State. Senator Bate. Nor in mine. Mr. Smith. They were not generally assessed in any of the Terri- tories in the West; and, as I say, when they grew large and strong they were pretty well able to take care of themselves when it came to the question of changing the law as to the assessment of their property. [Laughter.] These conditions will pass away in statehood. I believe, from inter- views I have had with them, that the owners of those great mines are to-day willing to pay a net-proceeds tax on them, which is a proper tax. A mining tax should always be levied on the net proceeds and not on the property itself, for one year it may be valuable and the next not. I have no hesitation in saying that under a State govern- ment those men will gladly contribute liberally toward the support of the government through a proper and fair taxation of their property. I predict for Arizona just what has happened in every one of these other States. It is bound to come. Now let us see what the effect of statehood itself is. At the present time people go right through my country into old Mexico to invest in property that is certainly not half as valuable as that they ride over in going there. Why do they do it? Because there is no stability to our legislation; because the shadow of Con- gressional legislation hangs over every act of a Territory; because we can not bond a single, solitary road. Take any business proposition, where you have to hunt men of means to develop it. They will not go into it for the reason that the veiy act on which you rest your rights is liable to be amended or repealed after your rights have become vested and you have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on the property. Why, gentlemen, in the very last term of the Supreme Court it declared the bonds on my county for the construction of a railroad fraudulent, and at least void ab initio, no railroad ever having been built. The Supreme Court declared that the bonds were of no account and never had been; that the legislature never had the power to order the county to issue them. The plea was made that the county had never delivered them, and yet they passed a little amendment at the end of an appropriation bill or something else through Congress in which it was said that "all legal obligations of the Territory on a bonded debt are hereb}" legalized." So there is a standing obligation on our county, although the railroad does hot run as far as from here to that NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 325 fireplace, and my county alone is taxed $180,000 for it, a thing that could not possibly happen in a State. You see how our development is retarded, gentlemen. We have been kept back, and yet you see the beautiful development of south- ern California, just across the river, a countrv that is not one whit better in any sense than ours, and in fact not as good. Yet that coun- trv has been made the garden spot of the West, through the enterprise of just such pioneers as went to m\^ countrv, represented here by men like the Senator who confronts me. They wrought in that land. Sena- tors, and have done no more for it than I dare say w^e will do for ours when you give us exactly the same power and the same right to do it. There is now no place in the world more attractive to those who live in it or visit it than the beautiful country of southern California, whi(;h was a desert as bad as our own when, with their magniticent genius, enterprise, and energy, our American brothers first put their hands to the plow under its l)urning sun. Let us see what statehood has done in other parts of the country. "In ten 3' ears after statehood Kentucky had increased 200 per cent; Tennessee, 195; Ohio, 40S; Louisiana, 100; Lidiana, 500; Mississippi and Alabama over 400 per cent; Illinois, 350; Missouri, 111; Michi- gan, 221; Florida, 570; Iowa, 345; Wisconsin, 886; California, 3T0; Minnesota, 2,370." Ever}' State I have named increased at the surprising average ratio of 275 per cent. If you had not had statehood in any one of the States I have named west of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers, there would to-day have l)een people passing over them to California. They could never be developed under that form of government. It is inimical to the inter- ests of every free man in America. There we are, ripe for statehood, ready for it. Gentlemen, I do not care (measuring my words and being a Demo- crat if the Lord ever made one, as I see it) what the politics of that country is. I hope the Senate may rise to the point of giving it its rights, no matter whether it is Republican or Democratic or Populis- tic. Those people have a right to their opinions and to their free expression, and the}' have a right to enjoy the citizenship of this country, and not the mere Territorial tutelage thej^ have been under- going all these years. The development there, in spite of the opposition to it, has beexi marvelous. There has never been the boom daj's, and we have never sought them; but there has been a slow, permanent development of the country gradualh' going on under all these adverse conditions. Since the da}' the statehood bill passed the House my mail has been absolutely overwhelmed with requests from every State in this Union for information concerning the Territor}'. The writers say the}' are glad we are going to be a State; they have some chance now of saving their property, if they carried any there, or of keeping it if they made it there. The people of the country do not know the condition of the Terri- tory, If they did, they would not come at all. Arizona is ready for development. Its development means the devel- opment of every part of our country. I believe in the doctrine that the prosperity of any one section in some way, somehow, lends pros- perity to the balance of it if you have not killed the balance in trying 326 "NEW STATEHOOD BILL. to make an artificial prosperity in the first section. But if it is natu- ral, if it comes as a normal result of statehood, where I and my neigh- bors around me fight our battles as you fight your own, it helps every spindle and shoe factory in New England, every cotton mill in the South, every enterprise in the country, for it gives them more chance to produce, and they are thus able to live higher and live better, in a way that would otherwise be beyond their means. What reasons are there agains't it? Why are other people so fearful that we will be unable to help ourselves? We can not possibh^ hurt them. How are we going to hurt the State of California, the State of New Jersey, or the State of Tennessee? What burden can we possi- bly be on you? Has Nevada ever burdened California, or either of her neighbors? Did Tennessee's admission or Kentucky's admission ever hurt any of the States around them ? Most certainly not. And even if we stopped now and did not develop at all, it is a shame to our Government to say that a Territorial form of government shall rest over what will be!, before the next census is taken, 250,000 American citizens. 1 do not know what else to say. I only wish to say to the committee that when burdens are to be borne, when taxes are to be paid, when avenues for your successful trade are to be opened up, when men are to die, you will find a contribution from us; but when it comes to receiving a single bit of recognition at your hands we are spurned in contempt from the foot of the throne. We enlisted the first company in the Spanish war, and shed the first blood on Cuban soil. We bore that burden as we bore all the balance of the burdens. Senator Bate. You allude to Captain O'Neill, do you not? Mr. Smith. Yes; Captain O'Neill was the first commissioned officer, as I understand, who fell on that field. We pay our proportion of taxes every year to the Federal Govern- ment. Your collectors are among us. Your custom-houses are along our coasts; your internal-revenue collectors and your marshals are within our borders. Yet if a man cuts a stick of timber to build a bridge across a creek to get his child to school he is arrested and car- ried before a United States court, it may be 150 miles awa3% and tried for depredations on the public timber, and we are forced to go to Oregon to buy lumber to build our schoolhouses. That is another condition from which we are suffering. ' You started out to protect us when we settled that country, yet your Indians have devastated our homes and killed our people, and if "they were lucky enough to escape they have seen everything they had accumulated in years go up in a night: and the Government will not pay them back a cent, not a cent. Yet there is now a bill before Congress to pay a million dollars to stop some plague in some island somewhere over here. New Mexico never dreamed of such a thing, with all the money she has spent to suppress plagues in the shape of smallpox, cattle diseases, and so on. We have never even asked you to give us a niggardly few thousand dollars with which to run a legis- lature, yet 3'ou sa}' that we can not call it when we want It, and, though you are 3,0o0 miles away, tell us how long it shall sit and virtually what it shall do. Then, gentlemen, I can not see how a man born on this soil can object to granting us statehood. If he was not born here it might be different, because probably in his youth, from his mother's breast, he did not NKW STATEHOOD BILL. 327 get the broad inspiration of freedom that came to you and me. But in the case of a man born in this country, appreciating our relations with each other, the functions of our Government, and the right of a people to be free and independent as their neighbors are free and independent, I can not see where the objection could come from. It is dilticult to speak temperately on this matter. Three se})arate times I have passed this bill through the House of Representatives, once under a suspension of the rules. Three separate times has it been to the Senate door asking for admission. I have seen and I have advocated, since I have been in Congress, the admission of Washington, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Idaho, and Utah. My voice has been raised for the admission of ever}- one of them; and my Territory, standing equally competent to assume every burden they had, and equally capable of enjoying every right you gave them, I have seen turned aside at this door, for reasons best known to the men M^ho did it. In addition to this simple history of the matter and of statehood generally, I shall at some subsequent time, and, if my health permits, even before the adjournment of this Congress, place before the com- mittee a statistical abstract of our resources, which I think will dem- onstrate without any question that we are entitled to a vote in this Senate on our bill. I thank the committee for their attention. The iVcTiNG Chairman. Is there any other person here, Mr. Smith, who desires to speak on behalf of Arizona? Mr. Smith. I have no doubt there are a number of persons in town; but unfortunately I only received notice of this meeting this morning, lifteen minutes l>efore I got here. I rushed from my room directly to the committee room on that summons. There are other gentlemen here who know the country as well as I do, and have lived in it as long. I shall call their attention to the fact as soon as I can possiblj^ communicate with them. They are in the city somewhere, and if the committee will patiently hear them I shall be pleased. The Acting Chairman. I think it is the desire of the committee to hear anything that may be desired to be said by those who are present to-day. Senator Kean. You can not put in those statistics now? Mr. Smith. I want to make a little statement of them. Senator Kean. That is all right; there is no hurry about it. Mr. Smith. That is what I understood. I would like to go home and get all the data I have and transmit it to the chairman of the com- mittee. Senator Kean. Yes; then we caa have it printed, and it will be sent around to us. STATEMENT OF HON. BERNARD S. RODEY, DELEGATE FROM THE TERRITORY OF NEW MEXICO. Mr. RoDEY. Mr. chairman and gentlemen of the committee: I have a few remarks to make on behalf of New Mexico. Other citizens of the Territoiy are present, and will ask to be heard at different times, with the permission of the committee. New Mexico, if the committee please, is the oldest Territory belong- ing to this Government at the present time. It was made a part of 328 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. tlie public domain of the United States in 1848 by the treaty of Guada- lupe Hidalgo with Mexico; but it had been under military govern- ment for two 3^ears previous to that time, since August 18, 1846, when the flag went up at Sante Fe. When General Kearney came to Santa Fe during the Mexican war and raised the American flag over the people there they came volun- tarily under this Government, because General Kearney told them the United States would establish over them such a free government as was customar}^ in this country. They believed his promise. In 1848, to be sure that there could be no mistalvc about that promise, those people, through their ceding government, the Mexican Government, succeeded in inserting in the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo what is now known as the ninth section of that treaty. I will quote it in my remarks when they are corrected. That treaty sets forth that Mexi- i>ans who chose to retain Mexican citizenship may do so, but they must declare their intention to so do within a 3'ear. Senator Kean. That was the same thing that was put in all the treaties, was it not? Mr. RoDEY, The same thing that was put in all the treaties; yes. If they did not do so they were to be considered as having assumed the citizenship of the United States. Further, the treaty provided that such persons should, at a time to be adjudged b}^ Congress, be admitted to all the rights and privileges of citizens of the United States. These people then understood that to mean that the time to be adjudged by the United States should be a reasonable time — that is, a time in the lifetime of the people who were then living, and for whose particular benefit the treaty was made. Believing that, in 1850 they and the people of California erected State governments without enabling acts and sent their Senators and Representatives on to Congress. California's were accepted and New Mexico's were rejected, her representative being kept as a Delegate. In 1850 California passed from a military government right into the Union. New Mexico attempted to do the same and was refused, because the organic act was passed pending the transit of the Senators and the Representative across the plains, there being no railroad nearer than Missouri in those daj^s. That was in 1850. In 21 different Congresses since that date — not successive ones, because several Congresses sometimes intervened, during war days, and so on — New Mexico has applied at the doors of this Congress for admission into the Union, under her inherent right and the Declaration of Independence, under her treaty right as set forth in the ninth article of the treaty of Guadaloupe Hidalgo, and under the promises of the national platforms. In 1876, when the present Senator P^lkins had the honor of repre- senting her in Congress as a Delegate, her bill passed both Houses of Congress by a two-thirds vote, and was lost in conference. In nearly every Congress since, she has been here pleading for admission to the Union. No person who reads the ninth article of the treaty of Guadaloupe Hidalgo can den}- for a moment that the time therein mentioned meant a reasonable time, and a time during the lives of the people who lived in the portion of country ceded. Of course, when one country cedes a portion of its domain to another, the ceding country immediately NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 329 loses all interest in the land ceded, and as a consequence we were left at the mercy of this Government. If, as I said in the House, this were an executory contract between individuals, and you should bring it into court to enforce your rights, there would not be a court but what would hold that the time meant was a reasonable time. In 1850 we adopted a constitution, and it was a splendid one. It Avas so advanced for those days, ten years before the war, that Con- gress woidd not admit us under it. They held that it was too far advanced. We adopted another constitution in 1875, when Colorado got in. We applied jointly with her at the time. Owing to an acci- dent, the merest accident, New Mexico did not come in. Look at the way the great State of Colorado has advanced. That will show you how a State will advance as compared with a Territory'. In 1889 we adopted another constitution, a copy of which is in the governor's report, which has been said by every person who has ever examined it to be a model as an organic instrument for any juris- diction. At 21 different Congresses, as I say, we have applied. The bill you are now considering is the forty -sixth New Mexico has had before Congress for admission into the Union. Why are we kept out!* At one time it has been for one cause, and at another it has been for another. Congress in 1850 characterized our constitution as so far advanced that they would not let us in, and in 1875 they said that because our people were so illiterate and so ignorant they would not let us in. What legitimate reason can be given now? About twenty-one or twenty-two years ago, when the railroads arrived in the Territory for the first time. New Mexico took on a new impulse of progress and started to tax herself for her own betterment. I say without fear of possible contradiction that there is not a juris- diction belonging to this nation (I have ceased to say "in this nation '' since the insular decisions) that shows the progress that New Mexico has shown in the last two decades. Therefore the citizens of this country whose minds were filled with ideas with reference to the con- dition of New Mexico twentv years ago have now a wholly inadequate idea of her condition as it exists at the present time. We have, per capita, the finest system of public schools anywhere in the nation. We have more money invested in them per capita than any other jurisdiction in the nation. Our present schools cost from two and a quarter to two and a half millions of dollars. We have more puldic institutions per capita than any other State or Territory in the Union. And yet they characterize us as illiterate! The census of 1900 shows some 40 per cent of illiteracy in New Mexico. It showed 42 per cent ten j^ears ago. The census is abso- lutoly wrong and worthless. Senator Kean. How do you get your basis of population and money invested per capita for the schools if the census is all wrong? Mr. RoDEY. Those are the very things that prove the census to be wrong; and if the gentleman will permit me I will in a moment show him. The census law provided for the payment of |5 per day for taking the population of country precincts. When j^ou have to pay $10 a day for a team, as j'ou do in that country, you will not put down 330 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. very many names. They did not get anyone who had lately come into the country; they simply put down those they knew, and that sort of thincr. At the election at which I was elected the lists showed a registration of within a few hundred of (jO,000 voters — a great many in that large area; for recollect the area of New Mexico only lacks a few hundred square miles of being as great as the combined area of New York, New Jersey, and all of the New P^ngland States. We can not Iw any possibility register more than three-fourths of our voters in the time that is allowed for such things in the Territo- ries; yet we registered and put down the names and residences of within a few hundred of 60,000 voters. The rule of 5 persons to 1 voter in population is quite as true in New Mexico as it is anywhere in this Union — in fact, more so. The natives, who form a good two-tifths of our population, have families ranging from 5 to 10. I have even seen a happy father with '2-i: chil- dren, to show you the extreme; and while it might be said that in a mining country of that sort the people are to a large extent adven- turers, miners, cattlemen, and so on, that day has passed away in New Mexico. It has a permanent population. Then, again, we have 7,000, «)()0 sheep, and we have probably 10,000 or 15,000 people out on the ranges looking after them. We have from a million and a quarter to a million and a half of cattle, and we have from 7,000 to 10,000 people out looking after them. W^e have 10,000 prospectors all over that vast area all the time, and as a consequence the census enumerators simply can not get the population. The governor's report shows (on page 10, I believe) that if this census is true half the counties of New Mexico have not increased in population in ten years; yet in some of those same counties there are towns with from three to six thousand people that were not on the map four years ago; as, for instance, the town of Santa Rosa, the town of Cucumcari, and half a dozen smaller places that were not on the map when the last census was taken; yet those counties have practically not increased at all, according to the census. The Director of the Census admitted to me yesterday that if it were possible I ought to get an act of Congress to correct the census as to New Mexico, because he admits it was not taken properly. It is no criterion as to our population. The governor figures our population at the time the census was taken as about 300,000 people. We have established in New Mexico since then 75 or 80 post-offices. We now have some 363 post-offices in the Territory. AVe have built eight or nine hundred miles of railroad in the last two years or a little over., and with the consequent influx of population we sureh" now have the population we claim. There has been a further influx of population on account of mining and for other reasons, until I am satisfied to-day that while the census only gives us 195,310 people, we have actually nearer 400,000; and we surely have between three hundred and thirty and three hundred and fifty thousand people in New Mexico, without any question whatever. The school census for the last year, which has just come in, shows that there are about 70,000 children of school age. Those statistics prove conclusively that the census as to New Mexico is wrong. I have here a small statement, which I will submit to the stenog- rapher, showing the taxable property. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 331 (The statement referred to will be found at the ecd of Mr. Rodey's remarks.) Mr. RoDEY. Wo have in New Mexico 122,510 square miloH of area, or nearly 80,000,000 acres. Between fifty-live and sixty million acres of that is still public domain. About twenty-iive millions of it is pri- vate property, that will be subject to taxation when we become a State. It is calculated conservatively— I have been over it time and again and know whereof I speak — that we have between two hundred and tifty and three hundred million dollars' worth of property that will be sub- ject to taxation when we become a State. A tax of 1 per cent levied upon that would bring in from two and a half to three million of dol- lars per annum, so that we could in our constitution, for the first twenty j^ears of our State life, limit our taxation to 1 per cent. We only require now about $1,200,000 per annum to pay all our fixed charges and all the running expenses of the Territorial government. New constitutions always economize. Therefore it can be truly said that were we inclined to extreme economy we might even limit our taxation to one-half of 1 per cent for the first ten or twenty years of our State life, and then have the lowest taxed community in the United States of America. Senator Kean. You do not have any State tax at all now; you have nothing but municipal taxes, have you not? Mr. RoDEY. We have Territorial, municipal, count}^ school, and road taxes now, the same as anywhere else. We pa}^ the largest school taxes, I believe, of any Territory or State in the Union. Our tax collected for school purposes last year amounted to a little more than a million of dollars, one-half of which was paid in teachers' wages. We have a fine capitol Iniilding; we have a penitentiary l)uilding; we have an insane asylum; we have an agricultural college; we have a university; we have two normal universities, and we have from ten to fifteen cities, modern, up-to-date places, with from one to five fine brick schoolhouses in each of them, costing, as in my own town, for instance^ $30,000 and 140,000 apiece. There is a general impression all over this country that New Mexico is somewhat of a crude place. If you were down at the city of Albu- querque, and a gentleman should invite you to dinner, you would think you were on Madison avenue, New York, at least as far as some of our population is concerned. The people of the country think we are "Mexicans," that we speak Spanish, and that we are illiterate and ignorant. Now, just stop to think. Every person in New Mexico of Spanish blood, under 56 years of age, except a very few on the southern )»order who came in from old Mexico, was born under the American flag. As a consequence it is the grandchildren of the people who were there when the treaty was made who live there now. And I want to sa}^ for them that they are as badly libeled and slandered a people as there are in this nation to-day. They are as good citizens as you can find anywhere. The older generation, slightly bucolic in temperament, sheep raisers, minding their business, patriarchal in their ways, and all that, are citi- zens of the best class. They are somewhat of a brake upon the some- times devil-may-care, go-ahead sort of Americanism, so called, that has sprung up in places among them. Recollect they comprise about two- fifths of our population. About three-fifths of our population are 332 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. people from the States who have come in since, and their descendants. That fact (as to the relati\'e proportion of the races) was not known until a year or two ago. The census never showed us anything about the population. You can not tell anything about it from that; 3'ou have to figure it out independenth\ You must go into every part of the Territory in order to realize it. You maj^ travel all over the Territory hundreds of miles along the railroads and unless you take special pains about it, or there is .some occasion when there is an excursion or something like that, you will probably not hear a word of Spanish spoken the whole distance. In the justices' courts and in remote places there is a good deal of Span- isli spoken yet among the people, but a very large majority of thi.s two-tifths of the popidation speak English as well as Spanish. You will see deeds made between one Spaniard and another out in the remote districts that are brought in to the county seats and i-ecordeA are in Spanish and so recorded, but every record that is official, as oi proceedings in the probate and district courts in New Mexico, from one end to the other, is kept in the English language, and English is overwhelmingl}' and officially the language of the country. _ The few Spanish newspapers that are published among us carry headlines read- ing: "It is the duty of every father to see that his children learn the language of the country, andthat is English."' That is the phraseology that is used. The people in New Mexico, irrespective of politics, are a unit for statehood. The promise to give us statehood has been for two national conventions in both platforms, Repultlican and Democratic. Our con- ventions on statehood have been nonpartisan. The delegations sent on here to the House to help statehood along are nonpartisan. The people are a unit. Almost every newspaper of the Territory carries the headline, "New Mexico demands statehood from the Fifty-seventh Congress;" "New Mexico of right ought to be a free and independent State of the Union,"" and such phrases. You will lind them in every newspaper. The people are so anxious over the matter that they feel that Con- gress and the nation are intentionally deceiving them, after all these efforts they have made for all these years to get into the Union. A Territory, as was well said by the Delegate from Arizona, is a place whose people are presumed to be unlit to govern themselves, because it is a.ssumed by the average investor, at least, and the average intending umnigrant, that if it were lit for anything else it would be a State. As a consequence, simply because it is a Territory many persons will not settle in it. Then, again, the alien law applies. You can not, if occasion requires, go over to England and finance any enterprise except under such restrictions as are virtually prohi])itive. Furthermore, there is this continuous superintending control which- Congress has over us and which is even outside and beyond the law or rule of vested rights. You can not get a vested right in a Territory by its laws, because you have staring you in the face notice that Con- gress has a never-ending superintending control over its legislation, a control against which the statute of limitations does not run. Because of that no man will invest largely in a Territory unless it is in a gold mine or something where he can"^see the cash come out so quickly that nothing can stop it. NEW STATEHOOD I^ILL. 833 As a consequence, you Ccan only get capital for mining enterprises where the gold is in sight rcHidy to be shoveled right out: but where it is a little slower, although sure on the calculation of experts, and so on, when all is ready, and the capitalists of the syndicate take advice of their counsel, the advice is: "There is danger in this superintend- ing control of Congress, and if these people were fit for anything else but Territorial government they would have been a State long ago.'* As a consequence, capital being always timid, it is never invested in a Territory as easil}' or largel}^ as in a State. Yet, in spite of that, in the last ^^ear or two New Mexico has made more progress than any other part of this Union. As 1 said, it has built 800 miles of railroad, and there are several hundred miles of track under construction at the present time. The condition of everything in New Mexico is improving vastly — so fast, in fact, that its people confess that in all its histor}' it never made such rapid progress as it has during the last two or three years. We want to come into the Union. We have been asking for admission for so many years that we think no argument ought to be made against it. Our population now is three times that of Wyoming, eight times that of Nevada, twice that of Idaho, and is almost equal to that of Ver- mont. It is nearly twice that of Delaware. The population argvmient cuts no figure. Then w'hy should we be kept out^ I have bought the clippings of the newspapers to see what the public sentiment is in this country as to why we should be kept out of the Union. There seems to be an argument by the unthinking people of the country that we have no constitutional rights that ought to be respected by Congress. But a great man}^ splendid newspapers and intelligent editors, be it said to their credit, come squarely out and say, "No matter what your politics, no matter what your effect upon national legislation, you have an inherent and a treat}^ right to enjoy the same blessings and privileges as any other citizens of these United States; therefore we are for j'our admission;" and they advocate it. But there are others who say, "It would destroy the equilibrium of the United States; it would have this effect, and it would have that effect." As though gentlemen sw^orn to do their duty here would treat us in that way! Our people begin to be discontented when they look and see that for a half century the revenue law\s have been enforced in New Mexico, and Indians have been permitted to depredate upon them when they were a thousand miles away from a railroad, during war days and since, and their property has been destroyed and their families impoverished, and yet no redress, save in recent vears, and very little then, has been made. When they see that and then see you turn 75 per cent, or whatever it is, of the Filipinos' revenues into their own treasury for the support of their schools, and turn the same amount from the Porto Rican revenues into their treasur}^ for the support of their schools, and when they see the free flag of Cuba's own people go up over a people they helped to free — for the three Territories furnished two-thirds of the President's regiment— they do say that any people who will put their rights upon a partisan basis are not worthy of the institutions of this great country. This nation never gave us a dollar for the education of our children. It does more for the very Indians than it does for us. We feel that no matter what our politics may be we should be admitted into this Union. I want to say, Republican to the core that 31-54 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 1 am, that while New Mexico and Oklahoma are Republican, and only Arizona i>s Democratic, the opposite part}' in the House to a man sup- ported this measure. They put it upon a higher ground; they said that their heritage of liberty, born of the fathers' blood and sanctified by the mothers' tears, was something- dearer and higher and greater than the success or failure of any political party. New Mexico has been Republican for half a centur}'. Her wool interests, her sheep interests, her cattle interests make her so; but she is also naturally so. The natiyes there are naturally Republican. Now, after half a century's Republicanism, the people are saying- that we are Democratic, and endeayor to keep us out on that ground. I assume — 1 would not dare to assume otherwise — that gentlemen here will not consider those things, but will admit us upon our merits; we ask it on no other ground. We demand it as a right. We had a lot of literature presented to the House committee, some of which has been distributed to the committee here. Among other things, there is the goyernor's report showing the population, show- ing our resources, showing our cattle, our wool, our sheep, our mines, and our institutions. New Mexico's mines do not show up in the reports as well as they might for the reason that she has no reduction works. On the southeast, at El Paso, in Texas, there are large reduc- tion works, and on the northeast, at Pueblo, in Colorado, there are ver}' large reduction works. As a consequence our mineral output largely goes to Colorado and to Texas. We had hearings before the House; here is a copy of the hearings had there as to all the Territories. We haye a bureau of immigration in Mexico, You will lind before you yolumes entitled Mines and Minerals of New Mexico, Climate is Fate, etc.; you will tind before y^ou all sorts of newspaper and statistical accounts of the Territory; you will tind a series of declarations and resokitions adopted at Albu- querque, N. Mex., on the 15th of October last, in ahnost similar language and form to the Declaration of Independence, which docu- ment has not ceased to be with us an instrument the phraseology of which sets forts the wants of a people. Detining a Territory, I once phrased the matter this way, and I think it is a good wa}' to put it: '"What a mayerick a Territory is! It is no part of the United States. Congress can annul its laws; it can preyent it from enacting any laws at all. It could, if it wanted to, appoint eyery official from the outside, from goyernor to constable. It can pass any sort of a tariff law it wants to for a Territory because it is no part of the United States. A3^e, it could eyen code a Territory to a foreign country in the settlement of war, "The people of a Territory haye no supreme yoice in anything, Thoy never yote for a President nor a member of Congress. If they had a million yotes to cast it would not atiect in the least any national election or national policy. Its voters are political nondescripts pure and simple, until their country becomes a State." And 1 might add with reason that New Mexico appears to be the Cinderella of American jurisdictions. As 3 on will see by the map here, the northern half of the Territory- is bigger than all of New England; and it is one vast coal field. The Territory has tracts of timber larger than the State of Massachusetts within its area. It has resources untold. It will 3'et surprise this nation in its development. It produced nearly, if not quite, a million NEW STATEHOOD HILL. 335 and a half tons of bituminous coal last year and may produce two millions the coming- year. Senator Clark, of the present United States Senate, owns a large coal mine on the western line which is producing coal all the time. All these red blotches that you see on the map indicate land grants made by the Spanish Government prior to the acquisition of the Ter- ritory by the United States. Those are principalities in themselves. For instance, this one, the Maxwell land grant, is bigger than some of the New England States. The Acting Chairman. Are those grants all conhrmed now? Mr. KoDEY. Yes, sir; thanks to the land court which Congress created for us about ten or twelve years ago which has done splendid work. They are about all confirmed. The existence of these land grants is one thing that kept the Territory back for many years. Now that the title is known, cattlemen and others are buying them with a view to using them for pasturage, for the timber, the iron, the coal, and one thing and another; and the result is a tremendous impetus to New Mexico. The difficulty now is to get the title settled among the heirs, because they are always confirmed to the original grantees and their legal representatives, and it often takes two or three years' litiga- tion to find who is legally entitled to the land at the present time. I settled a land grant" here (indicating on map) two or three years ago, the CeboUeta land grant with 200,000 acres in it. It was made in the year 1800 to 30 persons, and I think there are somewhere near a thousand descendants who are now entitled to it. The Acting Chairman. It was a colony grant, then? Mr. RoDEY. Yes, sir; it was. They are buying up the interests now all around the grant. The question of the titles to some of these grants is still pending in the Supreme Court of the United States; but most of these grants are now private property, subject to taxation for the support of a State government, when we shall be admitted. All the railroads through the Territory— and we have about 3,000 miles of railroad in the Territory and several hundred miles under construction — will be subject to taxation. The Acting Chairman. Will you explain something to me right there? How does it come that those grants contain such a large area of land, when under the Mexican Government the limit was ordinarily 11 square leagues ? Mr. RoDEY. We in the Territory believe, sir, that there never was a grant made in New Mexico for any such quantity as they were con- firmed for. Congress confirmed grants for those vast quantities before the bar and the people of New Mexico managed to prevent it. The boundary calls in a grant would say that their grant ran from one moun- tain to another, and the interested i^arties who would bu}- them up and would come here to influence Congress, and who often got people in the Territory to apply here to get them confirmed, would make the boundary calls "include vast tracts instead of what was intended. Large grants of land were, of course, made, in many instances by the Spanish and Mexican authorities; but it is my opinion that many have been confirmed for many times the amount originally intended to be granted. The land court, be it said to its credit, has restored to the public do- main more than 7,000,000 acres of land; so that it has paid for itself well. That amount has been thrown back into the public domain. The Acting Chairman. These grants are all taxed, 1 suppose? ^336 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Mr. RoDEY. Not yet, sir, or only at a very low rate. It is hard to- change from the customs and systems we have as a Territory, because we are of such vast area. We believe that with the change to a State form of government, when we turn over a new leaf and begin anew, we will g^et everything taxed rightfully; because with all the property in New Mexico taxed at even its moderate market value 1 per cent of taxation would pay every iixed charge we have to pay, support every office we have to support, and run a State government and our institutions and public schools without question. I will be very glad to answer any questions the committee may wish to ask. The Acting Chairman. Before you close will you tell us what is the funded debt of New Mexico? Mr. RoDEY. New Mexico, as a Territory, owes less than one million of dollars. There are municipal bonds of course that are taken care of by the municipalities, that have no concern with the Territory as such or with Congress or anyone else. They are being properly taken care of. We are in good shape financially. The committee in the House calculated on our presentation, as you will see by the report, that our indebtedness was about $948,000. It was eleven hundred and odd thousand, but we had on hand two hundred and fifty or sixty thousand dollars in cash to credit against it. We are in first-rate shape financially. The money on hand will reduce it to 1948,000; and you will find that showing in the report that was made by the House com- mittee to the House. We are in splendid condition. The only thing that keeps us back is our Territorial condition. Now, about this question of "carpetbaggers," to use a term that is well known in this country. Officials are sent down there to take our offices, in violation of the plank in the national platforms, that says we are entitled to home rule. We have nothing in common with them. They come there; some stay there afterwards and make very good citizens; others do not. We have a good set of officials now, but it has not always been so. We would much rather elect our own officials. We want a voice in this country. We see you every day changing tarifi's that aftect us; we see you changing national policies; we see communities with half or a third of our population having a voice in the land. Not one of us has ever voted for a President. There are men there 55 years of age, born on this soil, who do not know what it is to live under a State government; they have never experienced it; they have never enjoyed it. Three-fifths of the people that have come there have moved there expecting the Territory would be a State in a 3^ear or two, thinking that in the nature of things w-e could not be kept out any longer; thinking that an invitation to settle carried an implication that a State would be established. Now we find their children growing up, and still we remain a Territory. Do 3^ou not know, gentlemen, that since the insular decisions you do not have to beg the question very much to say that a child born in a Territory, even though that Territory afterwards becomes a State, is not eligible to the Presidency ? There is a possibility that the Supreme Court of the United States will yet hold that. I am not saying that it will. My clients kiudly "NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 337 say I have some knowledge of law, but I dare not say that at this time. 1 say, however, that when the Supreme Court of the United States held in the insular decisions that the phrase in the Constitution to the effect that duties, imposts, and excises must be uniform "throughout the United States" did not include Territories, you do not beg the question when you say that the Constitution, where it says that to be eligi))ie to the Presidency a person must be a "natural- l)orn citizen of the United States," does not include a child born in a Territory. Now, I will not go to the extent of saying that the coga't will so hold, because I would not hold that way were 1 a judge on the bench; but you do not have to beg the c^uestion very much to sa}^ that the Supreme Court might hold that doctrine, that a child born in a Territory is never after eligible to the Presidency. It is a matter of importance to a citizen of the United States whether or not his child shall be eligible to the highest office in the land. I certainly do not want my child ineligible, nor does anj'one else. But that is the least of the objections. You have heard so much about Territories here in Washington that 3^ou no doubt think that we are a quarrelsome sort of people. That comes from this fact: We may be a very quiet community down there. A man wants office, and he has influence here, having come from the States, and he gets some Senators and Representatives to see the President or whoever has the giving of the office, and he gets the appointment. Immediately there are objections made. Some other people down there know Senators and Representatives too, and they write here. Those people perhaps could not be elected to any office in the Territory themselves; yet they try to thwart the appointment of some one else. Then there is a fight, and there are charges and counter- charges, criminations and recriminations, all on the part of a little coterie of people that do not amount to anything as compared to the whole people. The result is, because all our political dirty linen is washed here, that jou imagine we are quarrelsome and not peacea])le and law abiding. As a matter of fact, gentlemen, the Territory of New Mexico is one of the most peaceable communities in the countr}'. We never have had any strikes down there, practically speaking, except one railroad strike that went clear through the United States. That is the only one we have ever had to amount to anything. The natives are splendid people. They never bother about that kind of thing. They raise their wool and sell it, and the same with their other products. I would like to have the privilege, if the committee cares to sit any longer, of having a few gentlemen heard who are here. The Acting Chairman. 1 see it is after 12 o'clock. What is the pleasure of the committee'? Senator Bate. I suppose these gentlemen want to go back, do they not? Mr. RoDEY. Yes, the}^ do, sir; and I would be very thankful if they could be heard for a few minutes. If you will permit me, I will be glad to call them, sir. (After discussion, the chairman announced that the committee would take a recess until 2.30 o'clock p. m.) H s B 22 338 NEW STATEHOOD RILL. AFTER RECESS. After the expiration of the recess the committee resumed its sessioa Present: Senators Beveridg-e (chairman), Bard. Bate, Dillingham, Heitfeld, and Kean. Mr. RoDET. With the permission of the committee, 1 will now intro- duce jSIajor Llewellwyn, of New Mexico. The Chairman. Are you through, Mr. Rodey? Mr. Rodey. There are a few more things I might say, but they will be very hriet. The Chairman. Perhaps you had better conclude, then. Mr. Rodey. All right, sir. STATEMENT OF HON. BERNARD S. RODEY -Continued. Mr. Rodey. 1 would like to state that the governor's report, which is before the committee, shows the condition of the Territory at the date it was made, and while it is not in as finely tal^ulated a form as the Government sometimes gets up things, it is in very good shape, and contains a vast amount of material for the information of the committee. The Chairman. You can leave it with the committee. I do not think it would be worth while to include it in your statement, as it is alreadv printed. , . ^t • Mr.' Rodey. We also have a bureau of immigration in New Mexico, and have had it for several vears. That bureau publishes little pa.m- phlets about every county in the Territory, an examination of which will give the committee some information, I think. The Chairman. You may leave those with the committee. Mr. Rodey. It also publishes a volume called Mines and Minerals of New Mexico, including all the precious stones, and so on. I men- tioned this before the recess. I spoke this morning of the conditions in the Territory, and of the reasons for statehood. I will also state that there are now vast enter- prises on foot, concerns about to engage in legitimate business in New Mexico, from which a reasonable profit will result, which are waiting to see whether or not they will get the opportunity to issue their bonds under a State rather "than a territorial form of government. The Chairman. What are those enterprises? Mr. Rodey. Railroad and timber companies. Citizens in Michigan and Indiana have bought a tract of timber of 300,000 acres about where 1 have my pencil on the map, in western central New Mexico, south of the new Santa Fe-Pacific Railroad. That land was given as a land grant by Congress to the Atlantic and Pacific Railroad in 1866. It was originally sold bv the railroad to Mitchell Brothers, of Cadillac, Mich. Af ferwards one of the :SIitchell brothers acquired the interest of his brother, and he and others have now organized a corporation of Michi- gan. Indiana, and Illinois capitalists, with a capital stock of ^8,000,000. they are waiting to issue their bonds under a State rather than under a Territorial form of government. Senator Dillingham. What is the name of that corporation? Mr. Rodey. The American Lumber Company. The Chairman. They want to issue bonds on this property, do they ? NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 339 Ml". RoDEY. The}" want to bond their own property. The Chairman. Certain!}^; I understand. Mr. RoDEY. Under the auspices of the State of New Mexico. The Chairman. They can issue bonds now, can they not? Mr. RoDEY. They can; but somehow or other, strange as it may seem, they hnd that there will be several points of difference in the value of tile stock if issued under a Territorial rather than a State form of government. The Chairman. And they want the Territory admitted to statehood so that they Avill have the advantage in the market that would result? Mr. RoDEY. Yes, sir. The Chairman. These railroads want to have you admitted to state- hood for the same purpose, do they? Mr. RoDEY. Yes, sir. The Chairman. To sell their bonds? Mr. RoDEY. Yes, sir. The State of Pennsylvania is particularly interested in that direction. Thej^ are now building 116 miles of rail- road from Santa Fe, at about this point on the map, south across the country, joining the Rock Island Railroad at a place in Lincoln County called Torrence. The Chairman. Who is building that railroad? Mr. RoDEY. Penns3dvania capital. Mr. W. H. Andrews is the principal man in it, together with Arthur Kennedy, of Pittsburg, and three or four other Pittsburg capitalists. The Chairman. Andrews is now a resident of Arizona, is he not? Mr. RoDEY. Of New Mexico. Senator Penrose's brother is a resi- dent of Arizona. The Chairman. Senator Penrose's brother? Mr. RoDEY. Yes, sir. He owns the mine Mr. Smith mentioned this morning. You were not present then, Senator. The Chairman. No. Mr. RoDEY. He mentioned the Commonwealth mine as owned by Mr. Penrose and somebody else. The Chairman. The brother of Senator Penrose? Mr. RoDEY. Yes, sir; as I understand it. The Chairman. And Mr. Andrews, now of New Mexico but for merly of Pennsylvania, is chiefly interested in the railroad business? Mr. RoDEY. He is also interested in a large mining plant down at Andrews, in Sierra County. He has been there four or five years. Daring the last two years he has engaged in that railroad enterprise, with the aid of other Pennsylvania capitalists, principall}^ Arthur Ken- ned}" and a former governor up there, and somebody else. Perhaps I do not state it properly, but it is certainly being done by Pennsyl- vania capitalists. They are building 116 miles of railroad from Santa Fe south to join the new Rock Island road that was built through the Territory recently. Then they are going to build from Albuquerque east some 50 miles; so that it will involve the construction of some 200 miles of road at present The Chairman. Is Mr. Andrews here? Mr. RoDEY. He is in Pittsburg. The Chairman. He was here, was he not? Mr. RoDEY. He was here, but left, and I wired him to come back. I only received word of this meeting last night. The Chairman. Yes; I know. 340 NEW STATEHOOD BILL, Mr. RoDEY. The Rock Island Railroad, gentlemen, has recently- built from this point where the pencil is on the northeast line of New Mexico. It came out of Oklahoma or Kansas and built six or seven hundred miles of railroad right down to El Paso. This new road is coming down here to meet it, from Santa Fe to Torrence, and then another one is coming across from Albuquerque, here, through Tijeras Can3'on. Then another road will be built from a point called Dawson, in the northeast corner of the Territory, northwest, cutting the Santa Fe Railroad between Springer and Raton. The Chairman. Who is building that line; the same capitalists? Mr. RoDEY. I think the Rock Island people. The Chairman. These are all projected lines, are they? Mr. RoDEY. The Andrews line is not projected. They are actually laying ties on the whole length of the line, and have 20 miles of the grade constructed. The Chairman. I see. Mr. RoDEY. The other one, from Albuquerque, is projected, aud the one from Dawson — how much of that is built. Major? Major Llewellyn. About 40 miles. The Chairman. So that Andrews is now ready to put out his bonds? Mr. RoDEY. He will be in a short time. They have built this road with actual cash, as far as they have gone, within the last year and a half. The Chairman. I see. . Mr. RoDEY. There is a town here called Santa Rosa, on the Pecos River, that has from three to four thousand people in it that was not on the map two years ago. There is another one, called Tvicumcari, that has two or three thousand people in it to-day that was_ not on the map two years ago, and so on. have helped establish, since I have been elected, in the 117 miles between Santa Rosa, N. Mex., and the Texas line or Oklahoma, whichever it is, many new post-offices; and you certainly have to have two or three hundred people in order to establish a post-office. The Chairman. Where does Mr. Andrews live? Mr. RoDEY. He lives at Andrews, N. Mex. The Chairman. About where is that? Mr. RoDEY. It is about here [indicating], in Sierra County. The Chairman. How long has he been a resident there? Mr. RoDEY. Six years, I think, maybe not so long. Senator Bate. He was formerly in Pennsylvania? Mr. Rodey. Formerl}^; yes, sir. The Chairman. Before that? Mr. Rodey. Yes, sir. The Chairman. And is Senator Penrose's brother also interested with him in this railroad? Mr. Rodey. I do not think so. The Chairman. Simply in the mines? Mr. Rodey. No; the Penrose mine is in Arizona, and not in New Mexico at all. The Chairman. Oh, I see! Penrose's mine is in Arizona? Mr. Rodey. Yes, sir; in fact I never knew about Senator Pen- rose's brother until within two or three months. I did not know he had a mine down there, although I have known the Commonwealth mine by reputation for several years. I did not know who owned it. NEW STATEHOOD J5ILL. 341 The Chairman. Mr. Rodcy, I have just run over with the notes of the stenographer what you said this morning-. One of j^our last remarks was something about ''carpetbag government." Mr. RoDEY. Yes, sir. The Chairman. You meant by that the officers appointed by the President? Mr. RoDEY. That come in from outside; yes, sir. The Chairman. As a matter of fact, your governor is a native? Mr. RoDEY. Yes, sir. The Chairman. The secretary of state is a native? Mr. RoDEY. Yes, sir. We often succeeded in getting very nearly all of them appointed from our home people. The Chairman. Practically all of them are native New Mexicans, are they not? Mr. RoDEY. There are 2 judges that are "carpetbaggers." The Chairman. So that the extent of the " carpetbag" in all of your officers is 2 judges? Mr. RoDEY (to Major Llewellyn). Is there anybody else at the pres- ent time? Major Llewellyn. That is all^2 judges. Mr. RoDEY. We have been very lucky this Administration. Of course the 5 judges, the United States attorney, and the clerk of the Court of Private Land Claims are all '"'carpetbaggers." The Chairman. How many offices have you altogether? Mr. RoDEY. Oh, we have a United States marshal, a ■ The Chairman. Just give the total number. Mr. RoDEY. I will have to count. We have about twelve or fifteen. Major Llewellyn. There are 20, 1 think, with the land officers. Mr. RoDEY. Yes; about twenty Federal officers, with the land officers. The Chairman. And of those 20 officers, 2 judges are outsiders? Mr. RoDEY. At the present time. We have been very lucky indeed this Administration. Senator Bate. Some of those other judges holding over are out- siders, though? Mr. RoDEY. Yes, sir; but they are nearly all residents of many j^ears. We have been very lucky with this particular Administration. Senator Bate. I mean when they were appointed they were appointed from elsewhere, and not from that place? Mr. RoDEY. In a good many cases it is so; but not all of them. Most of the judges we have now are very old residents. We call a man who has been a resident of the Territory for fifteen years an old resident. The Chairman. You count all but those two as practically New Mexicans, however? Mr. RoDEY. Yes, sir; they are at the present time. The Chairman. And under their present commissions they were New Mexicans? Mr. RoDEY. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Are the two judges you have there now from the outside competent judges? Mr. RoDEY. They are very competent; they happen to be. 1 have seen judges sent to us who were not, however. The Chairman. But we are talking about actual conditions. 342 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Senator Bate. When were they appointed? Mr. RoDEY. One of them, Judge Baker, of Albuquerque, was appointed from Nebraska last January. I have not been there since he was appointed, but they say he is a very good man, in fact one of the best judges we ever had. The other is judge McMillan, of Buffalo, N. Y., who was appointed two ^^ears ago. The Chairman. So that the complaint about the "carpetbag gov- ernment," as a matter of fact, is a complaint against a phrase rather than a situation? Mr. RoDET. At present, yes, sir; that is true. But I have lived twenty-one years in the Territory-, and I have seen a time there when over three-quarters of the officers were outsiders. The Chairman. That period is quite remote, is it not? Mr. RoDEY. Well, yes; it has been some seven or eight or ten years ago. The Chair^ian. The conditions in that respect are getting better all the time, are they not? Mr. RoDEY. They are. The Chairman. The tendency is to constantl}^ appoint men from the Territories themselves if possible, is it not? Mr. RoDEY. The tendency is in that direction, because we fight very hard for it. The Chairman. Whatever the cause may be, that is the result? Mr. RoDEY. That is the result; yes, sir. Senator Bate. Have any other judges been appointed by this Admin- istration except the two of whom you speak? Mr. RoDEY. No, sir; only one of those, in fact, was appointed The Chairman. Do you mean the Roosevelt Administration ? Mr. RoDEY. One was appointed by the McKinley Administration^ that is, Judge McMillan. Judge McMillan is present in town, I have heard. The Chair^sian. By the way, just another question. (I do not want to take up much time, but everyone ought to ask the questions that come to his mind.) 1 just caught the fact that 3^ou had questioned the census. Of course I have not examined into that matter, and do not know" whether the Senators have or not. The census enumerators who Avere appointed in New Mexico, as was the case everywhere, were local men, were they not? Mr. RoDEY. Yes, sir. The Chairman. You, as Delegate, had something to do with the recommendation of those enumerators, had you not^ Mr. RoDEY. No, sir; it was just before 1 was elected. The Chairman. By whom were the}^ recommended ? Mr. RoDEY. I never did quite know how that census matter was brought about. There was a fight over the directorship, and a man up in Taos Count}" got it. The Chairman. The director was a native of New Mexico? Mr. RoDEY. Yes, sir; Pedro Sanchez; and I will have to confess that he did not make a very good record. He could not as the law stood. The Chairman. Were the enumerators that he appointed New Mexicans? Mr. RoDEY. In a great many instances. The Chairman. Local people, I mean. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 343 Mr. RoDEY, Thoy were all local people; Init I will have to make an explanation about that. The CiiAiRiMAN. So that the census was taken by Pedro Sanchez, a native New Mexican, and under him by enumerators who were local people ? Mr. RoDEY. Yes. It was taken so poorly that many suits have resulted over it on the part of the Government. The Chaiidiax. That simply means that the people wdio took the census were not competent to take it, does it? Is that what you mean? Mr, KoDEY. No, sir; that does not follow. It was largely so. The census is a prett}^ hard thing to take. The Chairman. Did they have a purpose in reducing it below what it actually was ? Mr. RoDEY. No, sir. It occurred in this way. Senator: Out there the}^ paid, I believe, 3 cents per capita in cit}^ w^ards. It was easy to take them there, and they took them moderately well, though they missed a good many there. The census in the cities was not very badly taken. But out in the country, where they did not get any per capita at all for taking them, but only got a per diem, they would have to pay a little more for a team to go around the country from hamlet to hamlet — fifty, seventy-five, and a hundred miles overland — in order to get them. Therefore, as Delegate Smith well said this morning, rather than commit perjury by putting doAvn false names, they just put down those they reall}^ knew and did not put down the newcomers at all. As a consequence, on page 10 of the governor's report, if the chair- man will take it, he will see that the governor says that half the coun- ties of New Mexico did not show any increase at all, when there were towns of two or three thousand people in them that were not on the map at the time of the former census. The governor calculates that there are 297,000 people in the Territory, I think, on page 10, judging- from the number of voters registered. The Chairman. Yes; I see that. Mr. RoDEY. We registered fifty-nine thousand two hundred and odd voters. Everybody who knows New Mexico at all knows that the ratio of 5 to 1 is truer there than in any other part of the United States. The natives, who form two-fifths of the population, have large families. In my residence there of twenty-one years I have known them intimately, and there is hardly a family that has not 5 in it, and they run from that up to 12 and 15. The Chairman. Mr. Rodey, do you not think that this is true— this Pedro Sanchez has a local pride in his Territory, has he not? Mr. RoDEY. He probably has, in a general way; but I do not think so, judging from the result — that it afl'ected the swelling of our census. The Chairman. The enumerators usually do in their various locali- ties, do they not? Mr. Rodey. 1 do not think they look at it in that light. The Chairman. Is it not the universal tendency, Mr, Rodey, in taking a census that the local people, on account of their pride, make it as large as the truth will permit rather than the reverse? That is the common experience with all of them, is it not? Mr. Rodey. You are right, sir; that is the truth. But I want to make this exception to it. I find that with us it results about the same 844 NEW statp:hood bill. as an eloction. Every man likes to see his party win at an election, yet he will not ^o out and hustle for it. We would like to have the census show well, but none of us took any interest in having it make such a showing. The Chaikman. The reason I ask the question is because you have made an explanation here of why the census is small; the explanation being that they would put down people they could conveniently see and nobody else, and, being familiar with the country, while the}' would not, as you say, find it convenient to go a distance to see a family, they would know about that family being there. Do 3"0u not think, Mr. Rodey, that the common experience of the whole country in taking censuses is that they were more likely to have put down the total of their knowledge than the total they saw? If they did not perform the oath of office and take them all, that the tendency' was to state the fullest of their information and belief rather than the reverse ? Mr. Rodey. 1 would say that was true if I did not know of our own instance. That was my impression before I saw these things. When I see Colonel Chavers, our superintendent of education, sending me a few weeks ago the school census, showing nearlv 70,000 children; when I see the registration returns of 60.000 in Ihe Territory, and that two years ago at my election; when I know that in our large area we can not register to save our lives more than three-fourths of the real voters we have, and when 1 know that the five-to-one rule as to population compared with voters is absolutely true in New Mexico, because I know the Territory pretty well, then I know that as to New Mexico the census was not taken properly. The Chairman. By the way, speaking about schools, what is the language taught in your schools? Mr. KoDEY. The'^ language taught in the schools is universally English. In some of the remote parts of the Territor}^ the}^ may per- haps also teach Spanish. In some of the denominational schools there — we have several of them — they also teach Spanish, I think. The Chair3ian. To what extent is Spanish spoken? Mr. Rodey. In remote parts to cpiite an extent among the natives. The Chairman. Is the Spanish language taught at all in the public schools there? Mr. Rodey. Not as of course. The English language is taught as of course in every one of them. The Chairman. In the public schools, then, as I understand you to sa}', the Spanish language is not taught? Mr. Rodey. It is not taught, except with the volition of the people there, that I know of. The Chairman. It is, however, taught in the public schools, is it, if the people ask it to be taught ? Mr. Rodey. Well, now The Chairman. Is that what you mean by "volition?" Mr. Rodey. I really believe it is, but I can not cite a single instance where I know that it is taught. I do know, however, that out in the country, where the teacher speaks each language equally fluent, and when the mother tongue of the people is Spanish, even though the rising generation all speak English, they teach it somewhat. The Chairman. Do you practice law in the Federal courts there? Mr. Rodey. Yes, sir. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 3-15 The Chairman. Did you ever try a case down there throuoh um interpreter. Mr. RoDEY. Oh, I have tried hundreds of them where that was done, as to witnesses and the jury. The Chairman. Is not that usually the case''^ Mr. lioDHY. 1 tljink in three or four counties of the Territory it is. The Chairman. Is it true in three or four counties of the Territory ? Mr. RoDEY. Let me count them. In Taos, Rio Arriba, Santa Fe once in a while, though not always, Bernalillo, and Valencia — tive. The Chairman. Did you ever trj'^ a case, Mr. Rodey, where the address to the jury and the testimony to the jury had to be given through an interpreter? Mr. Rodey. Many a time. The Chairman. The jury all being Spanish? Mr. Rodey. Yes, sir. The Chairman. And it not being possible for them to speak English? Mr. Rodey. Oh, many of them often speak English. The Chairman. But all did not? Mr. Rodey. But some one or two did not. The Chairman. Therefore you had to have an interpreter. Mr. Rodey. Yes, sir. Now, I want to explain that. That occurs for this reason: Ameri- cans, at the pay that jurors get (I say "Americans" simply to distin- guish them from the natives), will refuse to serve on a jury every chance they get. When we had a property qualification for jurors the mechanics and laboring men and that intelligent class of people would put their property in their wives' names on purpose to get rid of jury duty. The native there, on the other hand, rather likes juiy duty. He is called in between seasons — they are pastoral people, you know — between lambing and wool seasons and that sort of thing. They have not very much to do, and they are glad to be called in to sit on a juiy. They make the fairest jurors I ever tried a case before. The Chairman. 1 am not talking about their fairness; I do not impeach that. Mr. Rodey. Say a jury is called. Perhaps there will be two or three men on that jury who speak Spanish only — men selected from a remote part of the country, under the law. You see "a juiy of the vicinage" always means of the district, and sometimes they take men a hundred miles away and bring them in. Americans, on the other hand, will get themselves excused through doctors' certificates, on account of business, and this and that; and it will finally wind up by others being called, and all the Americans being disqualified in one way or another, and you will find that you have a juiy that is half Spanish and do not all understand English, and 3'ou will have to have an interpreter. Down in Grant County there has not been a Mexican juiy, so called, in the memory of the present generation. Drawing a pencil this way over New Mexico, leaving out Donna Ana County there, with the excep- tion of two small towns there are not 50 Mexicans in that section of the country. Luna County, here, has not 50 "Mexicans," so called, in it. The Chairman. Where are the Spanish-speaking counties ? Mr. Rodey. They are Rio Arriba, Taos, San Miguel, Bernalillo, Socorro, and Donna Ana. The Chairman. San Miguel has 22,053 people? 34G NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Mr. RoDEY. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Rio Arriba, 13,777; Socorro, 12,195; and what is the other one? Mr. RoDEY. I guess you have them all. The Chaikman. What about Bernalillo? Mr. RoDEY. That is, about three-lifths American and two-fifths Mexicans, so called. But recollect, those Mexicans, so called, do not all speak Spanish alone. A laro'e per cent of them speak English also. There are any number of men w^ho speak either language equally fluently. The rising generation all do it. The Chairman. How many school-teachers are there in the Terri- tory? Mr. RoDEY. There are 900 or 1,000 school-teachers in New Mexico now. The Chairman. Are they native school-teachers? Mr. RoDEY. The3^ are all Americans. The Chairman. I mean to say, are they ntitive New Mexicans? Mr. RoDEY. Largely so. The Chairman. Or are they imported? Mr. RoDEY. No. The " oiae lungers," as we call them — the people who come down there for tuberculosis — came down there and displaced our own teachers, doing work at much less salaries; and we finally passed a statute preventing teachers of that kind from endangering the health of the children. Now only people who have passed a physical examination and are certified to be free from disease can secure the positions. The Chairman. Going back just a moment (and then I am through), will vou name the officers down there at present? Mr. RoDEY. The present officers? The Chairman. Yes; give their names, so far as you can, from the governor down. Mr. RoDEY. They are Miguel Antonio Otero, governor; William J. Mills, chief justice; John R. McFie, associate justice; Daniel McMillan, associate justice ; Benjamin S. Baker, associate justice ; Frank W. Parker, associate justice. That is the judiciary. Creighton M. Fora- ker (the Senator's brother) is United States marshal. He has been a resident of New Mexico for twenty-one years. The United States attorney is William B. Childers. The secretary of the Territorv is J. W. Reynolds. Senator Bate. Where is Childers from? Mr. RoDEY. He is from Pulaski, Tenn. The surveyor-general is Morgan O. Llewellyn, the major's son [indicating Major Llewellyn, present]. In the land office for the Santa Fe district, M. R. Otaro is register and Frederick Mueller is receiver. In the Clayton district Mr. Fox is register. Who is the receiver over there. Major? jMajor Llewellyn. I have forgotten his name. The Chairman. If you do not remember never mind; I do not care about them, anyhow. Mr. RoDEY. At Roswell, Howard Leland is the register and Mr. Guyer is receiver. At Las Cruces it is Nicholas Galles and Henry D. Bowman. Those are the land officers. The collector of internal revenue is A. L. Morrison, of Santa Fe. Who else is there? Major Llewellyn. There is the attorney for the Pueblo Indians. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 347 Mr. RoDEY. He is a man who has been appointed recently. What other Federal officers have we? That is about all, is it not? Major Llewellyn. That is all. Mr. RoDEY. Then we have a solicitor-general and a whole lot of local officials, sherilTs, and so on, all the way down throug-h every county. The Chairman. Oh, certainly. Senator Bate. These people who speak the Spanish language are not foreigners; they are natives, are they not? Mr. RoDEY. They are natives, sir; and they are as good citizens as you can find in the United States of America. They will have been under our flag fifty-six years the 18th day of next August. They have been slandered throughout the country through people calling them '^greasers," and that sort of thing. They are so far above the class of Mexicans that come up from Old Mexico and come into our south- ern border that there is no comparison between them. As far as most of those people are concerned, if you go out in the country you will find a patriarchal old fellow with a family of twelve or fifteen children all around him, some of them married and having grandchildren; and they are the nicest kind of people, hospitable, minding their business, never doing a wrong or being in trouble unless somebody gets them into trouble. We have a saying there that the new comers taught them almost all the evil they know. They are first-class citizens. The older generation do not speak so much English, the present genera- tion speak it well. The Chairman. How many members are there in your legislature? Mr. RoDEY. Thirty-six. The Chairman. Does that include both the senate and house? Mr. RoDEY. Yes; there are 24 in the house and V2 in the senate. Speaking about schools, take my own city of Albuquerque. It has five magnificent brick schoolhouses, costing as much as $30,000 or $40,000 each. It has the University of New Mexico, Hadley Science Hall, the Brothers' School, the Sisters' School, the Methodist College, and half a dozen other institutions of learning, all in that one town, besides a church of every denomination in America, including a Jewish synagogue. " , . . Take Las Vegas. It has three magnificent schoolhouses, including a large normal university. If you will look at some of these pamphlets you will see cuts and photographs of them. In the city of Albuquerque, where I live, we have what is called the Commercial Club, built for commercial and social purposes, which cost 1150,000. It is built out of brownstone, and is as fine a one as there is between Chicago and Los Angeles. We have a new depot at that town that is really a third of a mile long, one of the most magnificent structures of the kind in America. Senator Bard, when he goes home, will see it on his way. Senator Bard. Yes. The Chairman. Have you here a list of the members of the legis- lature ? Mr. RoDEY. Yes, sir. It is on page 144 of this book. _ The Chairman. That is all right; I simply want to see it. Mr. RoDEY. You will al»o find it on page 8 of this book. The only objection that can be made to them by people on the other side of politics is that they are nearly all Republicans. 348 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. The CiTAiEMAN. I have no further questions. Senator Bate. That will do, then, unless you ha , c something further to say, Mr. RoDEY. I have nothing further. I will ask leave of the chair- man of the committee to correct my remarks, so as to make them coherent. The statement prepared by Mr. Rodey and referred to during the course of his remarks is as follows: "The assessed valuation of the property in the Territory for last year was $38,227,878. There seems to be no question, from the hearings and the governor's report, that the actual value of the property is at least $150,000,000. The census of 1890 showed an estimate of prop- erty values in the Territory of $231,459,897, and all agree that the property interests of the Territory are more valuable now than they were at that time. The evidence presented before this committee, roughly tabulated, shows the present property of the Territory that will be subjected to taxation when it is admitted as a State as follows: 7,000,000 acres of railroad land, with its coal, iron, and timber, at $5 .. $35, 000, 000 7,000, 000 acres of private patented land grants, with its timber and, in some instances, its minerals, at $5 35, 000, 000 2,000,000 acres agricultural land, at $10 20, 000, 000 3,000 miles of railroad, with its franchises, equipment, machinerj', shops, etc., at $20,000 60,000,000 Patented mines and plants 25, 000, 000 7,000,000 sheep and goats, at §2 14, 000, 000 21,000,000 pounds of wool, at 8 cents ' 1, 6lic lands changed with Oklahoma. In the opening up of every piece of land in Oklahoma, with the exception of such land as were opened last August, the President specified a certain hour when the people should go upon those lands; but the act provided that the}' should be forever disqualified and become "sooners" if they went on before that time. Senator Kean. What is that word? Mr. Flynn. "Sooners." A new word was coined for the English language in Oklahoma at that time. Those lands were opened and settled within an hour after the proclamation was issued permitting settlement. Following that Congress ratified a treaty with the Cheyenne and Arapabo Indians and opened about 4,000,000 acres in the western part of the Territory. That was settled with a rush, but not nearly as rapidly as the other lands were, because it was presumed that it was within the semiarid region, which time has proven was not so. In addition to those lands there had been in the United States, with no other title than "No Man's Land," a strip of country about 37i miles wide by 167 miles long, which skirted the southern border of Kansas to New Mexico on the west, and which never had a govern- ment of any kind. Congress attached that piece of land to the Terri- tory of Oklahoma, and it is known now as Beaver County. Following the opening of the Che3^enne and Arapaho reservations. Congress treated with the Cherokee Nation of Indians for what was known as the Cherokee Strip, a piece of land about 90 miles wide and about 200 miles long, extending along the border of southern Kansas. That was opened with a rush. Following that the decision of the Supreme Court of the United States added what had been Greer County, Tex., to Oklahoma, giving us an additional million and a half acres of land. We remained then about as we were until last year, when a treaty was ratified opening the Fort Hall Reservation in Idaho, and contain- ing a provision also for the opening of the Kiowa-Comanche- Apache- Wichita Reservation in south Avestern Oklahoma. There are still within the boundaries of Oklahoma about 2,000,000 acres of Indian reservation not j'et opened up to settlement. They NEW STATEHOOD KILL. 381 lie in the northeast part of the Territory, consisting of the Osage Res- ervation, and, along- the line of the Santa Fe Railroad, the Otoe, Mis- souri, and Ponca reservations. Of course, it is only a question of time when those lands will also be opened. The area embraced to-day within the geographical boundaries of the Territory of Oklahoma con- sists of 39,000 and some odd square miles. The present size of the Territory is about that of the State of Ohio, and larger than that of the State of Indiana. Now, coming as we do for the first time and asking for admission as a State, we are naturally confronted with this question : ""What have you that would entitle you to statehood?" I presume it will be admitted by the committee, and by everybody else, that it was intended by the framers of our Government that a Territorial form of government within the boundaries of the United States should continue to exist only long enough to prove to the satis- faction of the law-making power that the people who had settled on that land or in that area were capable of supporting themselves and maintaining a government of their own. It has been the accepted polic}^ of all parties and of all statesmen that a Territorial form of gov- ernment should only exist until the people who had settled were pre- pared to support a government of their own without the aid and assistance of the Federal Government. I need only cite one or two instances which will, I think, satisfy the committee that as to that proposition there can be no dispute. Mr. Harrison, a man whose authority will unquestionably be taken as. good by members of my party, in maldng a report on the question of statehood (Senate Report No. 15, first session of the Forty-ninth Congress, dealing with the question of Territorial admission), said: "Territorial governments were always regarded as formative and temporary, to be superseded by State governments as soon as the neces- sary conditions existed." Senator Piatt, of Connecticut, in reporting in the Fifty -first Con.- gress the l)ill for the admission of Wyoming, which is, 1 think, a good and creditable State — a State having to-day two members in the Senate and one on the floor of the House of Representatives, representing a population that is not as numerous, if the committee will pardon me, as our school children in the Territory of Oklahoma — said: ''The Territorial system was adopted onl}^ as a matter of necessity, in order that there might be some government in an undeveloped and sparsely settled region. Wherever settlement and development make it possible for the people to sustain a State government according to the principles of the Federal Constitution, the Territorial government should be abandoned and the privileges of State citizenship conferred upon its people. " So I take it for granted that if we can show the Territory of Okla- homa is now in such a condition that its people are able to support a government, and that in numbers they equal at least some of the States, there should then l)e no objection to its admission into the Union of States. I say now, and I say it with pride, that there are to-day within the l)oundaries of the Territory of Oklahoma 200,000 more people than were ever within the boundaries of any Territor}^ when it was admitted into the union of States. Senator Kean. Is that according to the census? 382 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Mr. Flynn. No, sir. The census shows 398,000. In round num- bers there were 400,000 people in June, 1900, but you must bear with me when I call your attention to the fact that no census of the Terri- tory of Oklahoma could ever have been accurate. Since the census was taken in June, 1900, about 5,000,000 acres of new lands have been thrown open to homestead settlement. Another change in the polic}^ of opening the lands was inaugurated then — the most successful which the Government has ever made and a credit to the Administration opening it and one which I hope will al wavs be pursued in the future — when it was provided that, in fairness to all, registration should take place. While there were about 13,000 quarter sections of land subject to homestead entry, 70,000 American citizens registered and signified their desire to make homestead settlement upon them. The census, I believe, was, in round numbers, 400,000. After that, and up to the time of the issuance of the last report of the governor of the Territory of Oklahoma, the census taken by the Territory a j^ear after the Government census showed that in old Oklahoma, the country enumerated by the census, the population had increased 40,000, though after that the settlers of these three enor- mous counties opened up in the new country took about 4,000.000 acres of land, and cut it into three parts or counties. I say, without fear of contradiction, that there are in the Territory of Oklahoma, to-daj' over .550,000 bona fide citizens. Senator Bard. Exclusive of Indians? Mr. Flynn. The Indians cut ver}" little figure; there are only 12,000 of them. I wish to call the attention of the committee to the census report from Pottawatomie County, which is one of the old counties, showing that within the last twelve months the population of that county has increased over 12,000. Oklahoma is not like any other comitr}" that was ever opened up to settlement. There is not to-dav, within the boundaries of the United States, any land that will produce the same crops as will the Territory of Oklahoma, all on the same land. We have there the blending of the North and of the South. The people come from all sections of the Union. We have less illiteracy in the Territory of Oklahoma than there is in any other State or Territory in the Union. A foreigner in the Territory is almost an unknown quantity. We have some of them and they are good citizens, but they constitute less than 5 per cent of our population. The settlement of Oklahoma has demonstrated that it is the Amer- ican boy who has gone to the front, and who, realizing that his patri- mony, consisting of the public lands of the United States, is about exhausted, has made up his mind that he will make a home on the land his fathers gave to him; The crops in Oklahoma Territory are very diversified. In any part of Oklahoma Territory you can, on the same piece of land, raise cotton, corn, wheat, oats, castor beans, watermelons, peanuts; in fact any crop, as a rule, that can ))e raised in the North or in the South, with the exception of the trojiical fruits. It is unfair to class Oklahoma as you would any other Territory that has ever been admitted to the Union. There never was another case where so many American citizens, passing over an imaginary line and going within the boundaries of a so-called Territorv, were deprived of the rioht of American citizenship. NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 383 Some may say; " Well, you are getting along very nicely, what do you want with .statehood / Why do you want statehood among the "States where you do not reside V The American boy has been educated to believe that there is no limit to the possibilities he may attain. The people in the Territory can not have a ^'oice in the selection of their officers. They have no right to cast the 1)allot that every American takes pride in for the,Cliief Executive of this nation. We in Oklahoma are not complaining about the carpetbag rule. We have not been bothered nuich with that. If occasionally an out- side man was sent there, it has been the exception and not the rule. We have good officials; but we contend that we would have equally as good officials if the people themselves had the right to select them. Now, no question can be raised against us with reference to our size. As I say, we are about the size of the State of Ohio or of Kentucky. Then would the question be raised on us as to population? If so, New Hampshire, Vermont. Delaware. Florida, Wyoming, Kentucky, Montana, Nevada, Idaho, Oregon, North and South Dakota, and Wash- ington are also disqualified. Senator Kean. But 3^0 u would not present Nevada as an instance at the present time, would you? Mr. Flynn. It happens to be in the pot. J am merely naming States that are now in the Union. We have more people in some of my counties than there are in the entire State of Nevada. Senator Kean. Nevacla is not applying for admission as a State. Mr. Flynn. I know she is not; but if the question of population is raised, if it is said that we have not people enough, then I say you should disqualify these States that I have named.^ Senator Keax. You know we can not disqualify a State. Mr. Flynn. Exactly. I would have no man disqualify anything that is permitted or authorized under the Constitution of the V nited States. Senator Piatt, of Connecticut, a very close personal friend of mine, says — and I am willing to take him at his word when he says it. even from New England— that a Territorial form of government is only temporary, and that it was only initiated for the purpose of pro- viding a government until the people in the various localities are strong enough to support and protect, themselves. Will anybody deny that a Territory having more people to-day than ten of the States in' the Union is able to protect and support itself? Now, the proposition comes up — and I think it is unworthy of con- sideration — that if Oklahoma is admitted to statehood it will be liable to unsettle the equilibrium of the United States Senate. Nobody has any more respect for the United States Senate than I have. I believe that its members are honorable and good citizens; but I deny that the United States Senate is greater than the Constitution of the United States. The Constitution of the United States provides for the admis- sion of States. It is. of course, true that the Senate and the House are the judges as to the qualitications of the Territories; but. taking the facts and figures as they are, who can deny the justice of the claim of the people of the Territory of Oklahoma for its admission? Somebody may say: "Well, you have not sufficient wealth." IMr. Chairman, we have more wealth than was possessed by an}' State when it was admitted. The assessment returns from the Territory of Oklahoma during the last year, returned by the local assessors, showed a little over |G0, 000,000.' The returns submitted on the 1st day of 384 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. June of this your show an increase of !^15, 000,000, making a returned assessment of «575, 000,000 at this time. NobocW will contend for a moment that the assessment as made by the assessors throughout the various counties, not only in Oklahoma, but in any State in the Union, is a correct indication of the wealth of the community. • Nobody in the Territory who is familiar with the facts will question that we have flSOO, 000,000 of taxable property. If we have not that much we have not a dollar's worth. But, gentlemen, there has been a precedent. Upon what principle has Congress based its action in the pasti When Arkansas was admitted they had $19,000,000 of taxable property; Alabama had $21,000,000: "Missouri, $22,0000,000; Florida, $21,000,000; Iowa, $24,000,000; California, $22,000,000; Oregon, $29,000,000; Kansas, $35,000,000; Nevada, $30,000; Idaho, $26,000,000; and Wyoming, $23,000,000. I think those are the figures as returned by the assessors. Okla- homa has to-da}^ about three times the amount of taxable property returned in that assessment. Senator Kean. That would be the assessment of the States when they were admitted. Mr. Flynn. That is what I am giving you. Senator Kean. But should you not give a statement of the assess- ments of the existing States at this time? If you want to make a com- parison you should do it in that way, I think. Mr. Flynn. I do not know how that would make a comparison. I am reading from the assessments of these States when they were admitted, and give Oklahoma's as it is now applying for admission. Senator Kean. You are reading the wealth of those States at the time they were admitted. Why should you not give the wealth of the existing "states, to-day^ What" I am getting at is that $1,000 in 1846 was a great deal more money than it is to-day. Mr. Flynn. Certainl}^ Senator Kean. That is what I am getting at. Mr. Flynn. I think that is an unfair comparison. It is unfair to take New York's assessment of to day and compare that with the assessment of the Territory of Oklahoiiia, v/hich has only been organ- ized and in existence for twelve or thirteen years. But I think it is pertinent to compare the assessment returns of Oklahoma with the assessment returns of the various States when they were admitted. Senator Heitfeld. What would it cost to run a State government in Oklahoma? Mr. Flynn. It is pretty hard to tell. We now pay all the expenses of government with the exception of the few Federal office-holders, who are appointed. The only difference in our taxation would be the salary of the governor, a secretary, and seven judges. We have more judges than any Territory ever had. })ecause of the necessities of the case. We would have to have a governor, a secretary, and many judges. That is all the difference there would be as to salaries, and the people of Oklahoma would gladly pay this or more. Another thing that should bo con'sidered is the financial status of the Territory. The entire indebtedness of the Territory is $166,000. Senator Kean. As I understand, you have no bonds? Mr. Flynn. Oh, yes; we have $48,000 in bonds. Senator Kean. And the rest in warrants? NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 385 Mr. Flynn. Yes; but we have about ^?>G0,000 cash with which to redeem them, so it would be fair to say that there is practically no indebtedness hanging over the Territory of Oklahoma. With refer- ence to that it is only fair to come East where our securities are handled, and 1 think perhaps the Senator himself is familiar with one of the companies I am going to quote — the Union Central Life Insur- ance Compauy. Senator Kean. Where does that company exist? Mr. Flynn. In New York. Senator Kean The Union Central Life Insurance Company? Mr. Flynn. Yes; One of the agents of that company made the statement which I was about to read. They handled some of our secur- ities. Senator Kean. I do not know them. Mr. Flynn. Do you know Sheperd & Co., of New York? Senator Kean. Yes. Mr. Flynn. They say, reporting on Oklahoma: " We have handled more than half a million dollars of the bonds issued by the Territor}^ of Oklahoma, by its counties, cities, and school districts. Our experience with the securities has been eminently sat- isfactory. Payments of interest and principal have been regularly made, and at the present time there is not a dollar of interest in default on any Oklahoma securities that we have ever handled." I take this quotation from the governor's report. It is contained in it speech which I made before the House of Representatives, a cop}^ of wliich is before you, gentlemen. As 1 say, there is virtually no indebtedness hanging over the Terri- tory of Oklahoma, The question comes up, then, as to whether or not we can support a government. Our securities sell on the market to-day at a premium and at a lower rate of interest than have those of any Territory since there has been a Territorial form of government. At this point the chairman reentered the room and took the chair. Mr. Flynn. The municipal bonds of the cities of the Territory are ordinarily issued at a rate of interest bearing -1^ per cent, and usually sell at a premium; so that perhaps there would not be the advantage to us in entering to statehood that there would be to some other sec- tions of the country. But we present this as our case: Here is a com- munity of American-born citizens, all of whom over the age of 14 3^ears have resided in some State and have had the privilege of voting and electing their own officers, as well as helping to decide who shall be the Chief Executive of the Union. There are in Oklahoma representa- tive men from the North and from the South. With all the crops that are there, with all the securities that the}^ have, with all their wealth, with 2,500 little district schoolhouses scattered all over their country, with the telephone and telegraph in almost every city in the Territory, with railway facilities to almost ever}^ farmer's door, why should these men, because they have crossed this imaginary line, be deprived of the right which they had and enjoyed in the States from which they came i The Chairman. How many inhabitants have you in Oklahoma^ Mr. Flynn. We have at least 550,000 people. The Chairman. Are those people mostly farmers? Are they at- tached to the soil? That is what I mean. Mr. Flynn. They are; except those who live in the towns. We have no camps in Oklahoma. Our population is permanent, h s b 25 386 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. The Chairman. I mean to say, the general occupation is farming? Mr. Flynn. Agriculture is the general occupation. ' The Chairman. There are natural streams there, and the rahifall is suitable for farming, is it? Mr. Flynn. I was saying before you came in, in relation to the opening of the Cheyenne and Arapahoe Reservation, that there was not as great a rush as there had been at the opening of the other reservation in 1892, because it was presumed that it was in the semi- arid belt, but time has proven it to be good farming land. The Chairman. Did the bill which you introduced in the House providing for the admission of Oklahoma throw lines around the Indian Territory, with a provision for the incorporation of the Indian Territory at a future time as a portion of the State? Mr. Flynn. Not exactly in that way. It does not throw boundary lines around it. The bill provides for the admission of Oklahoma, and provides that the constitutional convention of the State of Oklahoma shall by ordinance irrevocalily surrender to Congi-ess, giving it the power to add from time to time, or at any time, all or any of the Indian Territory. The Chairman. How many people are there in the Indian Territory? Mr. Flynn. I judge that there are very nearly as many people there as there are in Oklahoma. The census gave them about 392,000 people. The Chairman. How many Indians are there there? Mr. Flynn. There were about 80,000 Indians returned under the census. The Chairman. About 320,000 whites and 80,000 Indians? Mr. Flynn. That is what the census returns indicate; but the Indian business down there is largely a fake. The Chairman. But that is the population in general? Mr. Flynn. Yes; but there are not many Indians; they are just as white as you and I, but called Indians. It is valuable now to be called an Indian down there, because you get the "head right." The Chairman. How manj^ Indians are there in Oklahoma? Mr. Flynn, There are about 12,000 Indians in Oklahoma. They are Indians, too. There is no question about that. We have in Okla- homa more blanket Indians by far than there are in the Indian Terri- toiy. They are residing upon their allotments, or are presumed to be, if they can find them. The Chairman. Do not let me interrupt you further. I merel}" wanted to satisfy m3^self as to whether the 400,000 inhabitants you mentioned included the Indians. Mr. Flynn. They are included there. The Chairman. What is the fact about the additional immigration there ? Mr. Flynn. I said to the committee a while ago that I had looked at the enumerators' report for Pottawatomie County submitted on the 1st dav of June, and it shows that whole county increased last year 12,000 people. That is one of the oldest counties, one that was opened up and settled long before any of the new ones. It is impossible for me or for anybody else to described to this com- mittee or to the countiy the enormous immigration that is going into Oklahoma. I say, without fear of contradiction, that the next census of the United States will show that the Territory of Oklahoma has NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 887 1,000,000 people. If we receive our just deserts at the hands of Con- gress, we will ))e the first Territory ever adniitted to the Union with three representatives in the lower House. 1 argued that before the committee in the House. All this new territory has been opened since the census, which was taken two years ago. That is almost a lifetime in the settlement of a new country. The Chairman. You think it is fair to suppose that the increase by immigration would swell the census report i? jMr. Flynn. In the new country alone. Where there are only 13,000 (juarter sections of land, 170,000 American citizens signified their desire to settle there b}^ registering. The Chairman. That is shown by the register in the Government land office? Mr. Flynn. Yes. The Chairman. So that you figure that it would be fair and legiti- mate to say upon the report of the governmental returns, first, that the census (which 1 do not understand you to dispute) shows some- thing over 500,000 people Mr. Flynn. No; 400,000 people. The Chairman (continuing). And, second, that the registration in the land offices, which figures are quite as much Government matter as the census, would show this addition. So that you would base that estimate, leaving out these things that might be questioned, upon what might be shown by the Government returns themselves ? Mr. Flynn. Not exactly, because that argument would be met by the statement that although they went and registered they did not do anything, and left the countiy. The Chairman. 1 have had some experience about these settlements myself Mr. Flynn. Let me suggest this: Within a year after the Govern- ment census — this has been taken two 3^ears now — there was sufficient public land taken, which was unoccupied when the census was taken, to show an increase in old Oklahoma of 40,000 people. We have added to that at least 100,000 in these new lands. That does not, however, prove any increase in any of the other 23 counties in the Territory. The Chairman. Have 3'ou been here upon these lands yourself? ]Mr. Flynn. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Are the farmers there cultivating the land? Mr. Flynn. The trouble is that we have quite enough men down there. They would like to be two or three on the same farm. There is no question about the effort that is being made to cultivate these lands. The Chairman. The farmers have built houses on the new land, have they ? Mr. FlynX. Certainly. The Chairman. And they are raising crops? Mr. Flynn. There have been instances there in which people who have been fortunate enough to get land have been paid $2,500 to move off that land so that it might be occupied by others. The Chairman. They have built houses and are cultivating the soil, are they? Mr. Flynn. Yes. The Chairilan. On the new land taken up since the census? 388 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. Mr. Flynn. After the last census. 1 said 550,000 people. 1 would be willing" to stake the matter of the admission of the Territory to statehood on the statement that the census now would show 600,000 citizens. I am that conlident about it. The Chairman. You do not question the census? Mr. Flynn. Not at all. The Chairman. You admit the accuracy of that census? Mr. Flynn. Yes: 1 thought that was as accurate as any other census. I am not linding any fault with the census. To give you an illustration: In Oklahoma City the census gives us a population of 10,037 and in Guthrie a population of 10,006. The local census, taken two years later, gives Guthrie 17.000 and Oklahoma C'ity 20,000, and there is no desire to pad the returns, because there is noth- ing to be accomplished by it. The people are absolutely there. Not only that, but there are others crowding- in continually. It is impos- sible, Senators — and this is a statement you may wonder at — on the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe, the Rock Island Railroad, the 'Frisco, or the Choctaw Railroad to get a seat going through the Territor3^ the travel is so enormous. The Chairman. How many miles of railroad have you in j'our Ter- ritory 'i Mr, Flynn. According to the report of the governor, made a 3^ear ago, we have about 1,500 miles. There are now about 600 additional miles under construction. The Chairman. About 2,100 miles altogether, then? Mr. Flynn. About 2,100 miles altogether of railroad will be com- pleted probably by the 1st of January. The Chairman. These railroads are being built and being completed, and such bonds as may be necessary are being issued, utterly irrespec- tive of any considerations of statehood? Mr. Flynn. Oh, certainly. You see, the Territory could not vote them any aid. The railroads in the West, 3'ou know, got pretty badly bitten some years ago; and when 3^ou find any of these old roads that had to go into the hands of a receiver building 'railroads now you know they are not doing it for their health. The\" are not building railroads because they are in love with any particular community. The rail- roads now building throughout Oklahoma are built because there is business enough to support them. Senator Bard. The\" are branch roads, I suppose, of the large systems? Mr. Flynn. Yes, sir; to a large extent; then some of the main trunk lines are coming in. Take the M., K. and T. Railroad, for example. Let me give 3'ou the histoiy of these railroads. When Oklahoma was opened for settlement, in 1889, there was onh" one railroad running" through it — the Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe. That road ran through the eastern part. It was followed, about six monthsor a vear afterwards, b3^ the Rock Island road, which ran through the western part, on to Fort Worth and Galveston. That was followed, later on, by the St. Louis and San Francisco, coming across from east to west. That was followed b3^ the Choctaw, Oklahoma and Gulf, which to-day has a line from Texas, away down in the Panhandle, clear across Okla- homa and down to Memphis and Birmingham. Now, the Missouri, Kansas and Texas, which is one of the main NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 38*.! trunk lines through the Inrliun Tcrritor}' from St. Louis down to San Antonio and Galveston and along- there, has now under construction about 500 miles of road in the Territory of Oklahoma: and the exist- ing- lines there, such as the Kock Island Railroad and the Santa Fe Hailroad, are t)uilding feeders everywhere. I do not exaggerate when I say that in the palmiest davs, when the}' could issue bonds to secure the construction of railroads, they did not receive any more consideration than we are receiving to-day without having to give them a dollar of bonds. Of course, the question of town pride cuts a considerable figure in giving aid. The Chairman. Mr. Flynn, where does the immigration to the Ter- ritory of Oklahoma chiefly come from? Mr. Flynn. You can draw a line, Senator, dividing Oklahoma north and south, running the line from east to west. We will say the population is equally divided and that there are 300,000 on each side, and of that number, taking the northern half, 275,000 are from the North and about 25,000 from the South, and in the other half probably 200,000 would be from the Southern States and 100,000 from the North. The Chairman. Are they all from the United States ? Mr. Flvnn. Why, yes; but I thought you asked from what sections of the countrv the}' came. The Chairman. Of course, that is interesting, too. ]Mr. Flynn. In the southern half vou will find 200,000 from the South and 100,000 from the North. Senator IIeitfeld. It is on account of the proximity? Mr. Flynn. On account of the proximity to Texas and Arkansas, and the nature of the countiy. Senator Heitfeld. The nature of the crops? Mr. Flynn. Yes, sir. Senator Bard. They are very largely Western men, are they? Mr. Flynn. Yes, sir; Western and Southern men. But, Senator, there is not a State in the Union that has not citizens in Oklahoma. They come from Maine, from New Hampshire, Iowa, and everj-where €lse. Oklahoma, as I said before, is not like anything else 3'ou have ever had to deal with. Here are people whose fathers and mothers now live in the States; their families were all grown up, and there was not room for them to get farms at home, so they went to Oklahoma. It is the American boy who has settled that Territory. Why should not he be entitled to the same rights and benefits as his brothers, who proba])ly live across an imaginary line on an adjoining farm — the right of self-government? The Chairman. Well, Mr. Flynn, when you speak of the right of self-government, I do not want to interrupt your argument, but I think you have absoluteh" every right of self-government you could possibly have under an}' conditions, except representation here in Congress. We will not have any argument about it, of course; but you can establish your rate of taxation and pass any law you please Mr. Flynn. Senator, I asked during your absence, if population •entered into the question, what was the matter with Vermont, New Hampshire, Delaware. Florida, Oregon, Montana, Wyoming, and those other States? We have more people than they have. 390 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. The Chairman. That is all right. I was simply taking- exception to your proposition about self-government, because you have local self- government there in the highest possible degree. Mr, Flynn. We have local self-government as far as Congress has seen fit to give it to any Territor3^ The Chairman. But you could not have it more completely. It is impossible to frame laws to give 5'ou more complete self-government than that. Mr. Fltnn. Well, we could elect our governors if we were a State. The Chairman. You elect 3'our governors, you elect your super- visors Mr. Flynn. We do not, though, Senator. The Chairman. I do not mean to say that you elect your governors, but the}' are appointed from your own people. You can fix your taxa- tion, you can establish 3'our schools, you can do absolutely anything Knancialh^ within the limits of the Harrison-Foraker Act, and when you exceed that very w ise limitation you can apply to Congress. You have at this session secured an exception to the limitation of that act. Mr. Flynn. Yes; that is true. The Chairman. So that you must not say, nor can any Territory truthfully say, that you are denied local self-government. You have it. Mr. Flynn. But, Senator Beveridge, let me call your attention The Chairman. But I do not think your statehood proposition rests upon that plane. I think it rests uj^on a broader ground. Mr. Flynn. I would not give a snap for an American boy who believed there was a limit to his possibilities; and in a Territcny there are. The Chairman. That is a ver}' good argument, but it does not go to the self-government proposition. Mr. Flynn. In a State you conti»l everything except the United States marshal and the proper Federal officers, that there are in every State. In a Territoiy we do not. I am not complaining about " carpet- bagism " or anything of that kind. Thank God, we have not been bothered lately with that in Oklahoma. We have been treated more than kindly by the President of the United States. I am very grate- ful for it. But I will tell you want I want — I do not conceal it at all. I want a chance, and the people of Oklahoma want a chance, to vote to make a man President of the United States. The Chairman. That is all right. I am merely pointing out to you that the argument that you want the right of self-government is not operative, because you have self-government. Mr. Flynn. Not as much as the States have. Let me suggest another thing. Senator. The Chairman. Well, suppose you pass on to the next argument,, because this is of interest only to me. Mr. Flynn. I have skipped all around, and I do not know that I can say very much more, except this: We have the population, or at least we think we have; we have the area, because we are the size of Ohio or of Kentuckv. or about that size; we have the wealth. The assessment returns show $60,000,000 last year and ^75,000,000 this year — an increase of $15,000,000; and bear with me when I say that they only show the taxation on 4,000,000 acres of land. Senator Heitfeld. The other land not being patented J NEW STATKIIOOD HILL. 391 Mr. Flynn. The other land not being initentocl. If there is a dol- lar's worth of property in the Territory of Oklahoma to-day there is ()\'er three hundred million dollars' worth. Congress has been kind to the Territory; we are grateful for that. It opened up, and it should have opened up, the best thing it had to the Ameriean-born. As I said, foreigners are practicall}" unknown among us, and the few we have are good citizens. We have less illiteracy than there is in any State in the Union. We have more newspapers in proportion to our population, two to one, than you have in any State of the Union. We have more banks in proportion to our population than 3'ou have in any other section of the Union. You can not go into a home in Oklahoma where you will not find one or two weekly newspapers and possibly one daily paper tjiken. We have increased in our banking strength; we have increased the number of our public schools; we have increased everything the men of Oklahoma have applied their hands to. There is not a poor- house in the Territory of Oklahoma. There is not a penitentiary in the Territory of Oklahoma. W^e do not need those things. The peo- ple have been too busy building churches and schoolhouses to educate and benefit the people, instead of taking them and confining them for acts they might have committed. W'e demonstrated our ability to govern ourselves in 1889, when we had no law under the sun except that which w^e made ourselves. That was my first experience in running up against genuine American man- hood that was simply turned loose, everybody carrying a W^inchester or six-shooter. There were no killings. There were no disorders. The people adopted a code of laws of their own, and they executed them. If a man said they had no right to do so, they just locked him up, if he deserved it, and he stayed there until he served out the sentence which the court that we elected decided he should serve. Now as to our crops: There is not a section of America to-day that will raise as many diversified crops and such an abundance of crops as the people of Oklahoma will on the same piece of land. The farmer in Oklahoma can till his soil eleven months out of the twelve. He does not have to put up feed for the winter. And as to the quality of our crops, even when we were in our swaddling clothes, at the World's Fair in Chicago Oklahoma fiour carried oft' the prize against the com- petition of the world. W^e have continued to do that in Omaha and at the other expositions that have been held. W^e raise in the Territory annualW, when we have a fair season, 30,000,000 bushels of wheat. W^e raise from one hundred to one hun- dred and fifty thousand bales of cotton. We ship 50,000 carloads of cattle. The assessment return taxes us with about 800,000 head of cattle. The secretary of the live stock board says we have about 2,000,000 head there. Of course that is a pretty good return for the assessment. You can not take the assessment for anything in any community I know of, but you have to have enough to pa}^ your run- ning expenses. Let me call your attention to one thing about Avhich Congress has been kinder to Oklahoma than to any other Territory. 1 suppose it is because Oklahoma has been the pet of Congress; and it is right that it should be. Oklahoma is the native born. Oklahoma is the child of the Union. In the Territory of Oklahoma, side b}' side, you will find 892 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. the ex-Confederate and the ex-Union soldier, both hurrahing for the same flag-. You will tind them both sending their children to the same schoolhouse. You found their sons both going and enlisting during the Spanish war to join the President or to go to the Philippines. There is no longer an}^ division of sentiment. You will find 2,500 public schoolhouses located throughout the various neighborhoods of the Territory, and but very few of them were erected by the incur- rence of anv bonded indebtedness. There is virtually no debt in the Territory. There is but $466,000 of warrant and bonded indebtedness, $48,000 of it only for bonds issued in 1890, when the Territory had no taxable property; and the cash in the treasury amounts to 1300,000. Congress gave lis our school and other lands. Senators, I do not know whether you are familiar with it or not, but in fairness to myself I ought to call your attention to this fact: The public land given to Oklahoma was different from what it was in the case of any other State. Heretofore, when a State was admit- ted into the Union, Congress in the enabling act gave it so much land; and it could secure that land, because it was vacant, within the con- fines of the State. But it was found that Oklahoma settled in an hour. In every reservation that was opened every piece was immediately taken. So we came here to Congress and asked them to make our reservations as Indian lands were opened; otherwise there would not have been any land left for the future State. So in addition to sections 16 and 36, Congress kindly reserved in some later reservations sections 13 and 33 in each township. So that in certain reservations which were opened we have four sections instead of two sections reserved. Now, a year ago we still had within the entire confines of the Terri- tory 4,000,000 acres of public land. That land is within the area of what was formerlv know as No Man's Land, in Beaver County— a county 37 miles wide and 167 miles long. That is virtually the only vacant land we have in the Territorv. In addition to taking these lands that Congress reserved for us, and which are confirmed in this bill to the State, this bill provides for a grant of a million and a half acres of the remaining lands for various other purposes. I do not suppose the land that is left is worth much for agriculture, and where it goes to public schools and educational institutions I do not think there will be any objection to our having it. There was none in the House, and I hope there will not be any in the Senate. We have in the Territory 26 counties; but it is unfair to "class them with the average counties that vou have in the ordinary State. I have just cited one of them, which is 37 by 167 miles. We have other coun- ties that are 56 miles square, and so on. There is virtuallv no more vacant land. The farmers will have to begin to divide up after they prove up. The entire assessment returns on the public lands of the Territory were only $13,000,000. Congress itself made a donation to us of about seventeen million when it passed the free-home bill. We owed the Government that amount. Senator Bard. What will be the effect of the accession of lands m the Indian Teri-itory hereafter d That will carry with it the same pro- vision, will it notd NEW STATEHOOD BILL. 303 Mr. Flynn. What is that, Senator? You can not get an}^ public land in the Indian Territory; there is not an3^ The CiiAiKMAN. It was "all divided up, was it not, by the Dawes Commission^ Mr. Flynn. Ordinarily, Senator, they buy land, allot an Indian so uuu'h, pay him so much for the Ijalance of it, and oi)on it, and it becomes public land. You can not do that in the Indian Territory, because e\'ery part of the land there is divided pro rata among the Indians. Senator Bard. I did not know that all of it, the whole of it, was. Mr. Flynn. Let me call your attention to why I think that was done. I think it is "beating the devil around the bush" in order to beat a land-grant railroad. Congress provided when it granted the charter of the Missouri, Kansas and Texas Railroad, and I think that of the Atlantic and Pacific, that whenever the Indian Territory became public land the railroads should have every alternate section for, 1 think, 20 miles on each side of their tracks. If au}^ public land ever came into existence in the Indian Territory, and the Government owned it, it would therefore go to the land-grant railroads; and I think that is why there has never been an effort made to buy any land from the Indians there, because it would inure to the beneiit of the railroads instead of going to the homestead settlers. There can be no lands taxed in the Indian Territory until Congress removes these restrictions, after the lands are allotted to the Indians. The only taxable property outside of personal property will be the town lots in the cities. The Chairman. Do you mean to say, Mr. Flynn, that if the Indian Territory should at any future time be incorporated as a part of Okla- homa alf the lands there would be gone, and that Congress could not make a reservation for school and other purposes of any lands in the Indian Territory ? Mr. Flynn. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Is that true because it belonged to the Indians and has been divided up among them under the Commission^ Mr. Flynn. Well, it is not actually divided, but it is provided th^t it shall be divided. The Chairman. Yes; that is already provided for. Mr. Flynn. Yes. Now, in that connection, with reference to Okhi- homa The Chairman. What provision did the bill make for that—any^ Mr. Flynn. No. 1 am not looking after that Territory at this timej. The Chairman. No; I understand that. Senator Bard. There is a provision Senator Heitfeld. But if Congress sees fit to annex them? Mr. Flynn. To annex them — oh, yes; then thej^ become part of us. The Chairman. You simply leave that open ? Mr. Flynn. I leave that open, in other words. My idea was to tie the hands of the State of Oklahoma so that Congress will be free to do with us on that question as it sees fit. The Chairman. To leave the future free, in other words? Mr. Flynn. To leave the future free. But we are bound; we *ro not free. 394 NEW STATEHOOD BILL. The Chairman. You are not free? Senator Bard. That is just the point. Mr, Flynn. 1 am going to be very frank with you. I have no desire to establish a small State, but my contention for statehood for Okla- homa at this time is that we are entitled to it. We have the popula- tion, we have the wealth, and we should be admitted. The Indiar Territor}^ should have, for the present, some other kind of govern mcnt. Its people are not fit for statehood now. Give them some kind of a Territorial government, or whatever you wish to call it, unti they grow up and become accustomed to our laws and to our form oJ government, and then add them to the State of Oklahoma if you desire, but provide lands or money to make their assets equal to the public lands in Oklahoma, Senator Bard. Then the State is bound by this section 18? Mr. Flynn. The State is bound by it. I think it ought to be. There has been some objection to that section on the part of some oi my very good friends who insist that there should be two States dowi there: but I am not worried on that proposition. Senator Heitfeld. This does not preclude making another State? Mr. Flynn. Certainly it does not. I would prefer a big State; bui I want everything on an equality when it is made one State. The Chairman. Have you anything further, Mr. Flynn ^ If not we will excuse you. Mr. Flynn. I have not; and I am very much obliged to you Senators. The Chairman, The committee is very pleased to have heard you The committee thereupon adjourned. o R5 University of California SOUTHERN REGIONAL LIBRARY FACILITY 305 De Neve Drive - Parking Lot 17 • Box 951388 LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90095-1388 Return this material to the library from wliich it was borrowed. n 3 1158 00190 2153 ,^,j';.'