Substance of the Speech th ;t -India House By Joseph Hume UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT LOS ANGELES THE Substance of the Speech OF 3fosep|) flume, AT THE EAST-INDIA HOUSE, ON THE 6th OF OCTOBER, 1813, UPON The Motion for an Intrease of the Salaries to the Directors of the EAST-INDIA COMPANY^ FROM THE Sum of 300 per Annum to 1000 ; And of the Chairman and Deputy, FROM 500 to 1500. LONDON : 1814. J. IN5ES, PRINTER, Wells-street, Oxford-street, Louden. ADVERTISEMENT. | IN the endeavour to commit to paper from recoU lection, and at some distance of time, the substance of the following Speech, it is probable that, not only the term of the expression, but also, in some instances, : the arrangement of the topics, may have been varied ; . and, one or two points may have been introduced, K : which were adverted to, not in that debate, but in the discussions connected with the same subject. But there is no deviation from the general course of argument and opinion pursued on those occasions. A very fair report o of the speech has been printed (by Black and Parry) in the Ttf- - Debates at the India-House ; and, it was not at first Q intended to have printed any other, because it was con- j fidently expected that the General Court on. the 23d instant, would have come to a final decision on the subject, The question now before the General Court, though only to half the extent of increase which was originally intended, is, in principle so objectionable, and, as to time, so inadmissible, that it is for the serious consideration of the Proprietors, previous to the of April, that it has been determined hastily to print and circulate this Speech ! 354892 IV It is to be observed, that one of the principal reasons for bringing the facts contained in the Speech before the Proprietors at large, was, the declaration of an honorable Director (Mr. Grant), supported by the majority of the Directors, apparently in favor of the increase of salary, after Mr. Bosanquet had, in a manly and candid manner, declared himself hostile to the principle, and, consequently against the motion. There has not been any intention to give offence to any Gentleman, by mentioning his name, which- the variety of speakers and opinions alluded to, rendered necessary, or in any other way to hurt his feelings; and, it is therefore to be hoped, that no person will feel offended. Gloster Place, March 31, 1814. * # * At the General Court on the 5th of April, the motion for an increase of salary is to be taken into consideration. the Substance of the Speech of Mr. Joseph Hume. MR. CHAIRMAK, WITH great deference and respect I rise, and hope you will afford me the same patient indulgence at the present moment, as you have evinced on former occasions. I do assure you, that I shall, as far as possible, abstain from trespassing unne- cessarily on your time, while I deliver my unbiassed opinion on the subject proposed for your consideration, namely, " to increase the salaries of your Directors to olOOO each;" a subject of the first importance, both as to the time at which it is proposed, and in the consequences which are likely to result from it. I thought, before my honourable friend (Mr. P. Moore) brought forward the motion at the preceding Court, that it was of a nature which would allow me, not only to second it, but to follow up all the objects with which I understood it to be connected. I had at first thought that the measure of my honorable friend was for the purpose of procuring an examination into the whole establishment of the East-India Company, with a view to reformatioh and retrenchment. At all events, the motion was ushered in by a state- ment recognising that principle ; and, if that course had been adopted, I should have acceded to the proposition, not only with- out hesitation, but with zeal and pleasure. My honorable friend has begun where, in fact, he should have left off. He has begun by submitting to the Court the propriety of voting a large addition to the salaries of the Directors, of granting a greater remuneration to those, who have not made any demand for an increase ; but, who have repeatedly declared the absolute necessity of a general retrench- ment. This is placing the executive in a situation of considerable embarrassment, which ought by all means to have been avoided ; A 4 '(ors. Let us, however, consider what may be the consequences of a measure which, with dangerous address, is recommended to you under the plausible and captivating name of liberality. By the false and deceitful images which that plausible name is apt to spread before the imagination, many individuals in private life have been led on to their ruin ;. and many odious abuses in public affairs meet with an unhappy shield and protection. You have heard, Gentlemen, of mercy being recommended to a judge, when justice was his only duty ; and you have heard of the important answer, that mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent. If more is given to the Directors than is actually necessary, under the denomination of liberality, it is so much taken from your funds, and is an injustice to you. But, let me ask those gentlemen, what is meant by liberality 1 ? Is it to give away plenty of money, whether necessary or not ? Or, is it pure waste ? Is that your duty ? If so, for what reason waste only on the Directors? Let us equally and impartially go over all alike : if you double or triple the allowance of your highest servants, proceed ou the same terms through all the rest. If you give to the Directors alone, you will find it much worse than waste ;. you will find it a principle of pro- digality and disaffection through the whole of your government. But we are told we shall have better service from liberal pay ; and will you believe that allegation ? Is it in overpaid places that we find the most -active service ? or is it not such places that are most apt to degenerate into sinecures? All principle and expe- rience are violated and contradicted by this vain pretext; arid I beg to call your attention also to the personal imputations and the personal charges which it brings. The gentlemen who now fill your Direction, have all engaged themselves by the strongest pledges known, or practicable, among men, to serve you in the best manner that it is possible for them to serve you. There is another body of gentlemen, competitors for the direction, who are all using their utmost endeavours to be allowed to bind themselves o ' by similar pledges. What do the upholders of this pretext, among whom we reckon both Directors and Candidates, but declare that these gentlemen, notwithstanding their solemn pledges to serve the Company in the best manner possible under the present salary, would serve it a great deal better if a few hundreds a-year were only put into their pockets ? Gentlemen, what is this but declar- ing, that all your Candidates and all your Directors are dishonor- able men men, upon whom the most solemn pledges are not binding men, who break or keep their obligations, according as they get, or do not get, a few hundred pounds per annum ? Gen^- tlemen, an hypothesis that involves a conclusion so manifestly false, must itself be untrue. Whenever you find it necessary to add to the salaries of Direct- i ors, in order to get men with the best qualifications to serve you, L add to them by all means : But why add to them ? for what good i purpose ? so long as you have multitudes of persons with the best : ; qualifications who are eager to serve you upon the old salaries ? Upon the old salaries did I say ? I might have said without salary at all. How .shameful, when such is the nature of the case, and when the state of your finances is so full of distress and alarm, to endeavour to draw you into the wasteful and impolitic measure of increasing the salaries of the Directors ! But the honorable gentleman, who spoke third on this question (Mr. Plummer), has called your attention, in a very eloquent manner, to the prosperous state of your affairs, to the mighty river of wealth which is perpetually flowing into the Company's coffers, and, on that account, he would recommend the increase of salary to the Directors. I am, however, much afraid, that the receiver of this mighty river of wealth is a sieve, as I have not been able to discover any accumulation of that wealth which we are told is pouring in upon us from all quarters, and in such immense quantities ! and I shall feel great satisfaction, if the honorable Gentleman will do me the favour to point out where this mighty hoard of wealth is to be found. Here, therefore, I am at issue with the honorable gentleman, (as I shall show by statements in the sequel) who, as a commercial man, ought to be acquainted "with figures, and should be prepared to demonstrate the existence 6' of those riches, of which he has spoken in such glowing terms, He stands in a very different situation from the gallant officer (General Harris), \vho is not expected to be so very accurate in matters of calculation, as his duty leads him to a different kind of study. The honorable gentleman, instead of enumerating the millions which the Company pay into his Majesty's receipt of Exchequer, would have done better, and it would have been highly satisfactory to us all, if he had told us the exact number of thousands which remain in our own. It has been stated by the same gentle- men that the reduction of the interest in India to 6 per cent, is a proof of the high prosperity of the Company's finances there ; and, that they are capable of bearing a much greater charge than the proposed increase of salary. I wish that, for the sake of the good faith and the character of the Honourable Company's Government in India, that subject had not been mentioned, as the reduction of interest was effected by the Governor-General Lord. Minto, by an act of as doubtful policy, in as far as the public credit is connected, and productive of as much loss and mischief to many private individuals, as any act that ever was passed by a govern- ment having claim to be considered just and honorable. By the transfer of a large portion of the Company's paper belonging to individuals in Europe, from a remittable, to a non-remittable 8 per cent. loan, on the implied faith of a continuance of the loan for some years ; and, by the almost total stagnation of trade so as to prevent remittance by private channels, an opportunity was taken by the Governor-General to advertise the payment of the 8 per cents, and to offer in its place a 6 per cent. loan. From the above circum- stances, the alternative to the public creditors was, to receive that rate of interest, or none. The honorable gentleman has told us that "HE thinks the "funds decidedly adequate;" but he has not proved to us that they are so, or shewn from whence they are to come. And, however much has been said this day about the surplus revenues and profits of the Company, I have every reason to believe, that the statements made by me on former occasions, and such as I shall this day make, although of a very different complexion from those of the honorable gentleman, are nevertheless correct, and admitted generally to be so. There is one point touched upon by a worthy proprietor (Mr. Dixon) which, though not strictly related to this question, yet, in a political point of view, is of the utmost importance to the Company, and to the nation at large ; I mean the consideration of the condition in w r hich the Company will be placed in India when a peace shall be concluded. I have not those fears, of which I hear so much, as to the deluge of officers that will be poured from Fiance into India, and, the dangerous consequences in time of peace. Thanks to the campaign in Russia, and subsequent events, the number of French officers by whom India is likely to be menaced, in the event of peace, will be comparatively small ! I wish that peace, that desirable event, were as near as the honorable gentleman seemed to think ; for, I am not afraid of the French ever being able to injure us there if a wise policy is adopted. I am, however, strongly averse to their ever possessing any settlements in India, as it would lead to the support of a military establishment, and consequent expense, on the part of the Company, to watch them. 1 hope, therefore, that every exertion will be made by our government, to prevent the French from obtaining a footing in India ; a point well meriting the early and serious attention of the Directors, and of his majesty's ministers, in the prospect of peace. To return to the motion now before the Court ; whether we consider the magnitude of the sum, the time at which it is brought forward, or the principle on which all salaries ought to be given, it will be found a serious and important question. I perfectly agree in the sentiment, expressed by the mover and seconder of the question, " that men in high situations should be " adequately rewarded." This is not, solely, an act of policy and necessity ; but an act of economy and justice. Every individual should be adequately rewarded for his services, whether he fills the highest or the lowest situation in any establishment ; but the principle of all public service and reward, is economy. If any 8 deviation should be made from that principle, I think it should b rather extended to those who are more in want of such assistance, than to persons, like the Directors, who are possessed of comfort and affluence. They cannot complain of straitened incomes, rendered more so by repeated retrenchments and alterations, as is the case with many of their servants abroad. As I have stated, that I consider economy as the true prin- ciple on which service and reward ought to be regulated, I am anxious to recommend it in a particular manner to your accept- ance : it's maxims eminently claim your regard. When you can get a good thing cheap, do not pay for it dear ; when two things are offered to you equally good, take that which is offered at the smallest price. Surely, this is a principle equally beautiful in practice as in theory, and, to which there cannot be any just objection. But, I am told (by Mr. Plummer) that it is impossible to apply these principles in this case, although no sufficient reason is given why we cannot ; and, that I may as well propose that the king should dine on a mutton chop, and come to London on the top of a hackney coach, &,c. I hope, Gentlemen, it is not to be proposed to us, to treat our Directors, a committee of ourselves, chosen by ourselves, as so many kings I humbly beg leave to remind the Court that we are not called upon to determine what is good, or what is not good, in respect of kings We have to do with twenty four Directors, who, the farther they are kept from the condition of kings, are likely to be so much the better servants. The situation of king is a solitary case ; and no inference, but what is calculated to mislead, can be drawn from it to cases which are radically different. As well might I contend, because the head wears a hat, that every part of the body ought to be covered with hats. The splendor of royalty, it is said, is necessary for subduing to obedience the minds of men: but, surely, Gentlemen, it is none of our objects to take measures for subduing our minds to the Directors. It is both our interest and our duty to take care that their minds shall be in obedi- ence to us. They are the acting body ; we are the deliberating and controlling. It does strike my mind, with painful forebodings, when I hear it recommended to us, in a grave and serious manner, by a sensible man, to consider what is the si- tuation of the King, as if that were to be a rule to direct our proceedings in regard to the Directors. Gentlemen, when 1 take a view of the greatness and the extent of the motives, which urge us to abstain from adding to the emoluments of our Directors, at the present exigent moment ; and consider, on the other hand, the hollowness and futility of the pretexts which are made use of to persuade us to that measure, I am filled with astonishment at the courage, or rather the insensibility of those who persevere in its. support. There are different ways in which public services are, and may be, remunerated ; and it will be evident to you all, that the value of these to each, must depend upon circumstances connected with the person to be remunerated, and the occasion which calls for that remuneration. The different rewards will, however, consist of money, honor, or patronage. It is the wisdom of states and communities to adopt that mode of rewarding merit and services which is best suited to their circumstances. To one man who has not the means of independence, money will be the principal object, as it would be preposterous to give a distinguishing title as a reward to him who had not the means of existence ; while to another person, possessed of ample fortune, a star, or a ribband, or an honourable distinction, will be infinitely more valuable than a sum of money. The distinction and honor which are attached to situations at the head of a government, are, in my mind, far more likely to be considered, by men of public spirit and independent fortunes, a satisfactory reward for public services, than the mere money salary. Looking to the Directors, therefore, as men of that class, who act as the ministers of a state, or as monarchs of a mighty empire, greater in extent and population, China excepted, than any other in the world, I would boldly demand, whether it was not rather degrading and insulting a gen- tleman placed in that honorable situation, to say, as an honorable 10 gentleman (Mr. Lushington) had said, that money was the only proper means of reward ; and, that we ought to value the services of the Directors exactly by a sum of money by ,1000 per annum in cash. He has told you also that the patronage of the Directors is of little value, and that money is the only true and just reward. But, I trust, the majority of the Directors, indeed, I hope all of them, are of a different opinion from the honorable gentleman, and consider that the patronage, honor, and distinction which they receive, and which never can properly be all separated from the duties of their situation, are far more desirable than any ad- ditional sum of money that could with propriety be given them. As a proprietor, I would fairly state, that, if I knew any gentleman endeavouring to get into the direction solely for the purpose of the money salary, I, for one, should refuse that individual my vote. I think I may safely assert that there are plenty of gentlemen, who, with competent fortune to support their station in life, and with abilities suitable to the duties of the direction, would be anxious to come forward, and devote their time and abilities, perhaps, equally great as those possessed by the gentlemen who fill that office, to the service of the Company, without looking for any additional pecuniary remuneration. AVhile such men are to be found, it would be an infraction of the just principle of reward, and an insult to our understanding, to place the situation of a Director, on the footing of a situation to be held only for money. Those who aspire to this dignified office, should look for high and elevated rank in the society of which they are members ; and they should, when elected, enjoy it. Every individual in this Court will, I think, be ready to grant it : but, possessing that, and so considerable a portion of patronage, they ought to seek no other recompence. We have, indeed, been told that the question of an increase of salary did not originate with the Directors, and that they did not wish for it : but a late declaration of an honorable Director * will, I think, now induce many of us to think otherwise. I would * Mr. Grant, on the 23d March. 11 ask those who are of opinion that gentlemen who fill offices of bigh trust should be remunerated solely with money, \vhether, in every instance, a greater degree of respect is not paid to indivi- duals, who, without salary, freely perform the duties attached to public stations, than to those who are paid for their services ? I am sure it will be found that a greater portion of regard is invariably bestowed on the man who acts without pecuniary reward : to such personages we are involuntarily led to pay the greatest respect and attention ; and we commonly have better service from them than from those who are paid. In this light it is that I wish to consider the Directors. I wish them to consult their own dignity of character; and, if any of them feel a desire to exchange the respect they at present com- mand, to give up the dignity and the honor which they enjoy, to barter what is most esteemed by great minds in society, for a few hundred pounds a-year, I should think them very ill fitted for so important a situation as that of a Director ; I should think them unworthy of an office, which placed beneath their auspices the government of a great empire, and the welfare and happiness of sixty millions of human beings ! ! The Court, before it proceeds farther, ought to consider xvhat the rule and system are by which the Company hitherto have been guided. Anxious as I am for the support of ancient and venerable establishments, where they are worthy of being upheld, 1 am, by no means, an enemy to innovation, where the changes appear likely to produce commensurate and permanent benefit ; but, in the case immediately before us, mischief, and not benefit, would, in all pro- bability, result from the alteration proposed. If, therefore, the change is not necessarily called for, why attempt a measure, at best, of so doubtful a policy ? On what principle, I would ask, have the Directors acted for the last century, during which period the Company have progressively flourished ? Territorial acquisi- tions to a great extent have been obtained ; their character has been established on the most honorable basis, and their present high and eminent situation is the ultimate result. From being 12 small adventurers in commerce, and humble suitors for protection from Indian chiefs, they have become the greatest mercantile Body in the world, and Sovereign, of an immense empire ! Were the Directors during that period rewarded with any large pecuniary salary ? No they were not. Those public spirited gentle- men, who had raised the Company to that pitch of grandeur which called down admiration from every quarter ; those honorable men, who had conducted, with such extraordinary success, the affairs of the Company ; they acted chiefly from zeal and laudable ambition ; their conduct was dictated by an ardent desire to distinguish themselves, and did not proceed from the hope of a paltry pecuniary reward ! Did the honorable mover think that the Directors, with a salary of < K300 a-year, would act with more energy and ability than their predecessors had done ? At a late period, at the commencement of the last charter in 1793, the salary of the Directors was raised from ol50 to 300 per annum; and, it has always appeared to me as being an insult to the dignity of those to whom it was given, if the increase was to be con- sidered for any other purpose than as the means of defraying any small expences attendant on the situation of Director. I never con- sidered the salary as a remuneration for services, but as intended solely to prevent an expense ; and, it is to be lamented that gentlemen have ever descended from that lofty and honorable situation, in which they previously stood ; when, from the love of glory, from the feelings which an honest and laudable ambition inspired, they cheerfully executed the duties of their arduous but most respectable office. At that period they looked upon that con- fidence, which raised them to such an elevated post, and which imparted respect and veneration to their character, as a sufficient reward for their most strenuous exertions ! ! But, there is a vast difference between <300 a-year, to defray the petty expences of a Director, and ,1000 a-year, as a reward for his services? The present proposal appears to me to be nothing more than the extension of a false and erroneous principle ; the principle, that goodness of service is proportional to greatness of pay ; and, so 13 far from acceding to it, the executive body ought, of their own accord, to spurn the idea! Now, that the question is again agitated, I hope the Directors will view it in its proper light ; and, with laudable disinterestedness, come to a resolution, not only to refuse all addition to their salaries, but, as an example, to give up even the paltry <300 a-year which they at present receive. I know very well that it is an unpleasant thing to give up any accustomed emolument, however trifling, and gentlemen may be startled at the proposal. There are very few persons indeed who relish the idea of refunding ; but it is the duty of those at the head of departments, to look to the various bearings of a question ; and, if a sacrifice is requisite, they ought to be the first to make it, and carefully to consider the effects which would be produced upon their whole establishment by its adoption. Almost every time the proprietors have entered this Court, they have been io the practice, and, in general, very justly, of applauding the conduct of the Directors. I am confident that you who, for twenty years, have been members of this Court, will agree with me, that though, in becoming a Director, same feeling of pecuniary interest might prevail, yet the great incitement to fill the situation arose, from the patronage, the distinction, and the respect which the important nature of the office commanded ; an office so dignified and exalted, as to demand men of nice honor, of no common abilities, of persevering habits, and of inflexible integrity, to discharge its duties properly. When the question was formerly asked, " Will these gentlemen undertake such laborious duties without a salary ?" the answer 'generally was, " Yes- !" and the answer was correct ; as Few men are better acquainted with the general policy and interests of the East-India Company, in their foreign and domestic transactions, than this gentleman ; and I have, therefore, quoted his words, as grave authority in support of my own opinion. What will the honorable proprietor (Mr. Lushing- ton), who considers salary as the only inducement to get able men for the direction, say to this ? What will the honorable gentleman (Mr. Plummer), who recommends salary as necessary to support the dignity of the office of Director, say to this ? And what will the honorable Director himself, who now recommends the increase of salary as an act of pure justice, say to this ? Salary is un- doubtedly private emolument ; and, if the credit of the Company is to be destroyed by those who seek to enter 'the direction for private emolument, how can the honorable Director recommend, as an act of justice, what he has declared in public would destroy the credit of both the Directors and the Company ? If you add to your debt, you may be able to borrow the sum requisite to provide for the increase of the salaries ; but, no increase should be made to your debts, except from urgent necessity, which, on the present occasion, does not exist. Before the honorable mover had proposed so large an increase as 17,400 a-year, he should have considered the state of our * Vide Debate* in the India House, as published in the Asiatic Annual Register for 1809. 17 finances, and the effect which so large a sum might have upon them. You are now called upon to incur this additional expense, at a time when it is proved, by financial papers laid before the House of Commons, that the surplus territorial and commercial revenue will not be sufficient to pay the charges at home, and interest on stock, &c. which must be defrayed. In this current year it will appear by an estimate, which I believe to be correct, * that there is a deficiency of .472,820 between your income and outgoings. With such a fact before your eyes, it would be well to act cautiously before you make any unnecessary increase of your expense. An honorable proprietor has observed, that the debt of the Company amounted only to =30,000,000 which was nearly the fact with respect to India, but we have also a debt at home to be noticed. It is stated that the revenues are immense, and that the debt bears but a small proportion to them ; that the debts now due by Great Britain are An Estimate, taken chiefly from the Accounts laid before the House of Commons, on the 23d of March and 27th April last past, up to the 1st March, 1814. Cash Dr. Cr. Dividends of stock > fg QQ 00 o and interest on bonds J Estimated profit"} from the trade to > ^IjSOOjOOO Interest and sink-"} China, an average of j ing fund of loans to > 242,820 Surplus revenue -\ the public - - - 3 Charges general - - 745,000 from territories in f India; vide account of 23d March - - ) 560,895 Pay to marine and~\ military officers on f nc ,. nnn e i 1. i x- i / 20O,000 furlough, and retired i Indian trade - Deficiency - - - 000,000 472,925 from service J Vide account of the 7tli Anril 191*! . ,2,233,820 o2,233,820 N. B. Minor sums are not noticed the surplus revenues and charges for dividends, &c. are copied from the official papers the profit by the China trade is taken on an average of several years; and the Indian trade remains a blank, as it is a doubt whether productive of a profit or loss. 18 greater in proportion to her revenues than the debts of the East- India Company are to its revenues. I trust that one man's being in debt will never be taken as a justification for another person to get in debt. But, I would here observe that, though the debt of Great Britain is extremely large, a provision has been made for its liquidation, whilst no such provision has been made for the liquidation of the Company's debt. In my humble opinion, therefore, we ought to follow that example, and, before we proceed to add new burdens to our finances, look in perspective to the liquidation of the debts now existing. A sinking fund had been established in India by the Marquis Wellesley, with great advantage to the public credit and to the finances of the Company, which, if continued to the present day, would have been of infinite benefit to the public and to the Company's credit, both of whom have paid dearly by the late uncertainty and fluctuation in the money market. But, that establishment, which was productive of so many advantages whilst it continued, was abolished by orders from the Court of Directors, for reasons which I have never heard, but which ought to have been very substantial and strong to have induced them to such a measure. A sinking fund would still be productive of great relief to the money maiket, and consequently of benefit to the Company's finances ; and, I should hope, that its re-establishment would soon be thought of. In my anxiety to shew the effect of progressive increase or decrease of your expenses, I have rather wandered from the subject; but, you will please to observe that, if you agree to the increase of the Directors' salaries, as now proposed, the sum of 17,400 a-year will, at the expiration of your new charter, or in tu'enty years, amount to .604,000. As you have not money in your treasury to meet the demand, notwithstanding the mighty river of zcealth which has been described as constantly flowing into it, but which, I fear, is all carried off into the ocean of expense, you must necessarily borrow, if the motion is agreed to 5 and thus the Company's finances, in the course of tw r enty years, will be rendered worse by no less a sum than 604,000 ! I do not mean to confine my argument or objection solely to the weight or levity of any individual sum, as it is the principle to which I mainly object that of needless superfluous reward, not called for by the circumstances of the case ; yet so large a sum as upwards of half a million of money, is not to be altogether left out of consi- deration; and I therefore call on you to recollect that the increase now proposed, of 1 7,400 a-year to the salaries of your Directors, will, in twenty years, amount to an expense, at the lowest, of 604,000. It is not, however, the magnitude of the sum (which appears to startle some of you) that roused my attention ; it is the train of important consequences which must inevitably follow, if the Court should grant the increase, that particularly claimed my consider- ation. There are many persons now present who will recollect how often, in this Court, the necessity of economy has been pointed out ; and your late Chairman (Sir Hugh Inglis), at the last General Court in which he presided, declared in strong language his opinion on this subject. The purport of his observation was, " that, whatever terms or charter might be granted by government " to the East-Fndia Company, unless they commenced with a " system of retrenchment, and acted upon principles of the strictest " economy, it would be impossible for them to go on." Many persons in this Court will recollect these words, or words to that effect ; and, therefore, I state them as supporting the necessity of economy, and, as likely to influence the pro- prietors iu their decision. This Court is always disposed to attend to the recommendation of the chair, and, from one who so long and so eminently devoted himself to your service, such a recommendation will, I doubt not, have its due weight. The recommendation of the late chairman, is founded, I presume, on his intimate knowledge of the resources of the Company, and mature consideration of the state of your finances. We cer- tainly shall be much to blame, if, contrary to the united opinions of many of your Directors, instead of pursuing maxims of economy B 3 20 and retrenchment, we commence our career under the new charter with an act of needless expense, bringing in its train consequences hostile to these sound maxims. I repeat the word train, for 1 hold it to be impossible for the Directors to carry retrenchment into any department with even a semblance of justice, if they begin by increasing their own emoluments ; and, if so, the consequences will indeed be very serious. I am aware that the honorable gentleman, who has submitted the motion, does not require us to carry the principle of increase to any other department, but it is for you to consider the justice of such a proceeding; and to act in a manner worthy so large and respectable a body. We ought in our decisions to be guided by equity and impartiality ; we ought not to make addition to the income of one class, and refuse it to another. I am anxious that this Court should adhere to the practice which has hitherto regulated its proceedings, in which some individuals have been remunerated with money; and others, of a more elevated character, have been rewarded by power and honorable distinction : those, were always considered as servants p and these, always as masters. We ought still to proceed on the same principle, and refuse our countenance to an innovation, the basis of which is self-interest, and the superstructure, loss of character. Let any individual, who now. hears me, suppose himself in the situation of one of those servants of the Company, appointed immediately by the Directors, and whose salary is regulated by them ; what must his feelings be, when, by the extension of retrenchment, which has been declared to be unavoid- able, he finds his salary diminished and his comforts withdrawn, while the Directors have their own salaries- tripled ? Could he witness such a proceeding, and view their conduct with satisfac- tion or respect I Could he look upon the Directors as men of consideration and prudence, or as just and generous masters ? Jfc. is impossible, it is contrary to human nature contrary to common sense. The best, the most grateful, the most elevated, servant of the Company would fel indignant if such a principle and practice w'eie admitted. The Court will recollect, that not long ago a considerable oat- cry was raised against the Company and their government in India, which was almost entirely done away by the examination of evi- dence which took place in the House of Commons ; and we again stand pretty fair with the public. But I would recommend the not exposing ourselves to the charge of inconsistency and extra- vagance, by agreeing to the motion proposed, which, if carried, will have the effect of placing both the Directors and the Proprie- tors iu rather an unpleasant point of view r ; for, with so great a load of debt, and under all our incumbrances, it would be very difficult to remove those charges which may be brought against the Directors if they do not oppose the motion. It is of import- ance to preserve the good opinion of the public ; and that can not be retained if we agree to this proposition. We ought manfully to oppose the motion. But, it is said, the Directors do not receive any reward for their great and arduous duties, and we ought >to give them a large salary. I would ask, Are they not placed high in society ? Have they not an extensive influence and valuable patronage ? Are they not looked up to by this Court with great respect and attention ? Did they not, again and again, receive the most honorable distinction this Court could bestow ? If such rewards as these are considered insufficient by the Direct- ors, they .are not worthy of them. We ought to consider the effect which the great increase of the Directors' salaries would, at this time, have on the public mind. Would not the public be ready to exclaim, " It is now " evident, from the conduct of die Directors, that they keep their " situation, at the head of the largest company in the world, merely " from motives of a pecuniary nature ; they only wish to forward " their own interests, aud to exalt themselves, without due refe- " rence to the general good !" And, with such a feeling as this gaining ground, was there not danger that they would lose that high and honorable character which they now possessed ? I know it will be argued, that this is not the act of the Directors ; but, if a man endeavours to do an injury to me, aud I do, not attempt to 22 oppose him, I am no less culpable than the person -who is thus attempting to injure me. Nothing but an unanimous vote against this measure, not the opinions of a few, but the sentiments of one and all, expressing the strongest disapprobation of the mo- tion, can save the character of the Directors. They ought to place an extinguisher on the question, and put an end to farther discussion. There is another point, also, on which I object to this proposal for general and indiscriminate pecuniary remuneration. I freely admit, that there are men amongst the present Directors, whose abilities are of the first order, whose talents fit them for any situa- tion in the state; men whose exertions are worthy of the utmost praise that could be conferred on them ; but is it just or reason- able that they should reward A B in so lavish a manner, because C D had deserved well of the Company ? It has been contended, that the Directors have made great exertions during the late char- ter I admit that they have made every effort in their power; but I would ask, if the Directors are not to exert themselves at all times to the utmost of their power, why should they be placed in that situation ? Of course, every gentleman amongst them did his utmost; but, if he had done less, he would have been unworthy of the honor to which his constituents had raised him. Still I must contend, that we ought not, out of respect to one set of men, to grant <700 per annum addition to another. The hand of death may thin the Court in the course of a few years ; and, ought we to saddle the Company with so large a permanent expense, which would be received by persons at present waiting for vacancies, and of whose merits we know nothing ? This certainly would be, if agreed to, one of the grossest misapplications of public money which I beJieve to have ever been offered for the consideration of any assembly. I now come to the subject of patronage, on which I hope the Court will allow me to offer some observations a little in de- tail ; as the real importance and value of that branch of the Direc- tors' remuneration are by many persons either unknown or wilfully 23 misrepresented. One honorable proprietor (Mr. Lushiugtou) has maintained that the Directors are not at all remunerated, that they receive no reward ; for, said he, " what is 300 a-year ? " it is a mere drop in the ocean that ought not to be noticed : " and, as to the patronage, " it is of no value whatever, scarcely " worth noticing, and is often very troublesome to the Directors to get rkl of. " Another gentleman (Mr. Plummer) tells you that a Director has not the nomination of more than three writerships in two years; and, as to cadetships and all the other patronage which he has, it is scarcely worth taking into account as a recompense. An honorable Director (Mr. Grant) has also said, that the opinions I have formed, as to the patronage of the Directors, are wild and visionary. But, let the Court consider the immense number of appointments which the Directors have to give away to whomso- ever they please, and say what is their value. Have they no sons, no nephews, no relations, whose fortunes it is in their power to make, by the situations they give them ? And is it not a most gratifying circumstance for a man possessed of India patronage, to see his children, his relations and connections all flourishing in con- sequence of his having been able to place them in situations, which, if he had not been a Director, they never could have obtained? If the clerk was to read the names of your servants employed in China, they would be found nearly to correspond with the names of the ! Directors, as being either their sons or nephews; and no \vonder " l l the commission divided yearly among 24 servants at China is about .150,000, the average of the two last years! And is not this to be taken into account? It is well known how eager the ambition of most parents is to place their families in a state of pecuniary eleva- tion. Where can this be done so \ve\\ as by the patronage of an East-India Director ? I will venture to say that twenty or thirty thousand pounds would not be an equal recompense to what the family and connections of each Director, taken on an average, have received in patrpnage in the course of any ten years he ha been in the Direction. It has been said, that every Director has not children to Appoint to situations ; and, that some have children and do not appoint them ; but, have \ve not strong instances of the children being otherwise provided for by East-India house interest, and have they not other connections ? It is both just and well- timed economy to reward them in proportion to their services and deserts ; but, will you not be lavish if you grant the money remune- ration, now proposed, to those who are already amply remunerated by the patronage, and were hitherto perfectly satisfied? I think I cannot afford a better testimony of the manner in which the patronage of the Directors is bestowed, than by the following ex- tract from Mr. R. Grant's book, p. 320. " Of the many writer- " ships and cadetships mentioned in it (the report) it will be seen, " that by far the greater number were bestowed on the principal " friends or acquaintances of the donors. The same thing, too, " must be notorious to all who have had opportunities of observing " for themselves the course of India-House patronage ; the sons, " the nephews, the more distant relations, the connections, the de- " pendants of Directors ; such are the channels into which this fund " of influence is usually distributed. " Much has been said on the subject of patronage ; and I have been blamed for having put a mo- ney value upon it. I acquit the Directors, undoubtedly, of receiving money for it ; but I have stated in a few words what assistance it enabled Directors to give to their friends. A Director would not, of course, take money from his sons or his nephews; but, surely, no person could deny, that the nomination to a situation in the Com- pany's service, being a provision for life, is an equivalent for money. The value of any thing is what it will bring ; and we know very well, that writerships have sold for ,3,500, and cadetships for two to five hundred pounds, when they Mere brought to market, and they would, at this time, sell for as much, if they could be sold. I believe that no person will say that these appointments are not money's worth ; and that they must not be considered so whether given to a son, or for a daughter, or in exchange for a church living or any other favor. I am extremely anxious that the Court should be fully impressed with the magnitude of the benefit that is derived from patronage, and not allow themselves to be misled by any state- ments to the contrary ; and, lest any calculation or valuation on my 25 part should be objected to, I shall endeavour to furnish you with the estimate of a gentleman (Mr. R. Grant), whose motives will not be suspected. In following his example, and adopting scarcely half the value which he affixes to the patronage of the Directors, I thought I had disarmed all those who might be disposed to dispute my calculation. At the time when some apprehensions were en- \ tertained that the Directors would be deprived of their patronage, that learned gentleman took a great deal of trouble to ascertain what would be the full value of the whole to the minister, with the view of shewing the danger that would accrue to the constitution, \ if such immense patronage should go into the hands of the Crown. | He, no doubt, had the benefit of the experience of an honorable I Director, a near relation of his, and we ought, therefore, to place the greater reliance on his statement. Now, if that patronage would be, in a certain degree, valuable to the minister, the in- ference is, that it must be equally valuable to the Directors. In page 286, Mr. R. Grant, in speaking of only one portion of the pa- tronage, says, " The ministers of the crown would annually have " it in their power to confer situations, in fact for life, on more " than one hundred and fifty individuals ; and these situations not * *' paltry clerkships or waiterships, but all of them such as may con- * " fer respectability on youths of patrician connection, many of them { i " such as the sons and nephews of members of parliament, and; " even the younger branches of the nobility, might aspire to fill, " and which it is well known that persons of those classes fre- " quently do aspire to fill." This extract will shew that even a part of the patronage is of very great value, instead of being of no value, as an honorable gentleman (Mr.Lushington) has told you. I shall state to the Court an abstract of part of the patronage of the Directors of the East-India Company for the twenty years ending with 1812, which I have compiled from the official returns laid on the table of the House of Commons by the Court of Di- rectors. This will, at one view, put gentlemen in possession of the number of persons (viz. 6150) for whom the patronage of the Directors in twenty years had enabled them to provide, as WRITERS, CADETS, SURGEONS, and CHAPLAINS. A difference of opinion may exist as to the value of wrrterships, which, to be within the real value, I shall, in my statement, only take at .'2000 each ; the other appointments are stated equally low ; and, to every man who has a family to put forward in the world, and can afford it, these appointments are well worth the sums stated. The follow- ing is the abstract and valuation : 26 Writers to China, at =4000 each 104,000 - * 770 Ditto to India, at 2000 1,540,000 4,728 Cadets, military, at 200 945,600 These, in the market, have been some- times sold as high as 500 each ; but I take them at 200, half of the price of a subaltern's commission in the king's troops. 592 Surgeons, at 200 each, ] 18,400 34 Chaplains, at 800, 27,200 6, 1 50 Making a total of '2,7 35,200 This, divided by 20, the number of years, gives an average of .136,760, the amount of the estimated value of patronage in each year. I shall divide the whole into 28 parts, two of which are given to the Board of Controul ; two to the Chairman and Deputy Chairman, respectively ; and one to each of the twenty-two re- maining Directors, the amount of each will be, To the President of the Board of Controul 9,768 ~\ er annum To each of the Chairs 9,768 > exclusive of To each of the twenty-two Directors 4,884 N S I did not wish, nor do I mean, to say that the Directors realise this amount in money. If they receive the amount in money's- worth, it is quite sufficient. In this calculation I have not taken notice of the patronage arising from the appointment, in the period mentioned, of about 159 cadets for the marine, 65 free merchants, 582 free mariners, of law officers, or of any of the home patronage. *The number of Writers to China and India has been, by a subsequent return, found to be only 760 in all* Vide page 32, in the Estimate. 27 It may be proper for the Court to know, that the nomination to * voyages has been an important part of the patronage, and enjoyed exclusively by the Chairs, and nine senior Directors. Some of these double voyages have been estimated formerly as worth ,5000 to any captain who got them ; but it is extremely difficult to fix any value, although fifteen or sixteen voyages every season may be fairly estimated at one or two thousand pounds each, in influence. I do not look upon this item as presenting only an ideal advan- tage. If these double voyages were not of considerable value, why are they always retained by the members of the Committee of Correspondence, and so difficult to be procured ? It will be also observed that, in the calculation, no notice has been taken of the appointments of the law officers to India. The nomi- nation to these situations is often of considerable difficulty, and there are cases, even of the lowest appointments, where much incon- venience has arisen to those who have gone out to India, and begun to practise without regular appointment from home. Mr. R. Grant, page 288, states that, " On the whole, of the " three departments, legal, medical, and clerical, the disposable " places, and these in effect places for life, amount to 290, all " which would in the case supposed swell the influence of the " crown." It should also be recollected that the Directors possess the whole patronage attached to appointments in the India- house, warehouses, wharfs, and colleges, which I would esti- mate at a considerable value, though by no means so high as Mr. R. Grant does. In page '291 he states, " on the political " patronage dispensed by the Company in the maintenance of " their establishment at home," (in appointments of clerks, secre- taries, cashiers, &c.) " we shall probably little over-rate the amount " of the patronage which will accrue to the Crown in the Indian " department at home, if we fix it at the annual sum of seventy or " eighty thousand pounds ! ! " " Such would be the accession to the ministry of the means of " influence, on the assumption that their actual interference were " confined to the limits now observed by the Directors of the 28 ** Company." There are various other sources of patronage to the Directors, all of them of importance. *' They extend compen- " sations to those who have sustained loss in their service ; they " decree pensions or gratuities to those who have served them well." Nor is this confined to their stated servants, but, it includes inciden- tal claims ; as for example, those of naval commanders for services in Syria arid Egypt. " It occasionally happens that individuals, 4t employed in the Indian service, arc reported, perhaps suspended, " by their superiors. The ultimate decision, in such cases, rests " with the ruling powers at home, who may censure or acquit, " may disqualify an offender or annul a disqualification unjustly *' inflicted. All these are substantive means of itifluence ; and "they are means, let it be observed, capable of infinite enlargement." Before gentlemen, therefore, come forward and complain that the Directors are not remunerated, they ought to examine those lists and weigh the various items of \vhich they are composed- They ought to consider them in the aggregate, and, when the equivalent value of the different situations which provide for young men for life, and the importance of the other influence, in such times as these, are fairly considered, I am confident you will think that the real value of the patronage of a Director is more than double the sum at which I have estimated it. The purchase of millions of goods annually for exportation, gives also an influence which those only who have experienced it can, I believe, fairly appreciate. Moderate as I have been in all my statements, an honorable Director (Mr. Grant) has declared my calculation of the value of patronage utterly wild and extravagant. I would ask him by what terms he will designate the calculation of Mr. R. Grant, made on the same principle, and twice as high ? I presume few Gentle- men know the value of patronage better than the honorable Di- rector; and it will be impossible to get rid, in 1813, of a valua- tion which was given to the public in 181'2, as I had sup- posed, perhaps erroneously, with his knowledge and sanction ; at any rate, with that imposing appearance held out to the pub- lic. The honorable Director has told us, that a money mea- SSf sure to patronage is inapplicable, that my mode of stating it tv as as unhandsome, as it was unjust ; that, in fact, / had pushed vny reasoning to a length altogether extravagant, and that my calculations were quite chimerical. It is necessary, Gentlemen, that you should hear Mr. Robert Grant's answer to these charges; for, if I have been so extravagant and chimerical, who have not come up to one half of the amount in money of his estimate, I leave you to consider in what terms the honorable Director should designate the highest of these estimates. After having given the value of separate portions of the patronage, Mr. R. Grant, in p. 305, and infra, says, " The pecuniary value will possibly be " inquired of the whole patronage which the Crown would gain by " superseding the Company in their political capacity. There are u many items of that patronage which cannot enter into a " pecuniary census. Still it may not be useless to exhibit all that " will admit of being so reduced." " In the following table, care is anxiously taken to proceed o " moderate assumptions." Mr. R. Grant, instead of placing a value, or money estimation, upon the first nomination to the various ap- pointments, as I have done, and which I suppose the persons want- ing the situations would readily give, has calculated the annual value of the whole, in income, at ,3,367,818 : and he adds, p. 408, " Now, from the amount of these items, we should, in strictness, " subtract a sum equivalent to the presumable value of the very few n writerships or other appointments with which, as has been " already stated, the Court of the Directors usually compliment the " Presidents of the Board of Controul. That value is not easily " definable iu figures ; but on no principle of compensation can " it be made greatly to exceed ,20,000. Call it 25,000 ; and " the difference wo,uld still be unfelt ; for we shall then merely " reduce the amount to .3,342,818 per annum. But if, on the " other hand, an allowance is made for the very large items pur- " posely dropped out of the aggregate, the result might probably "exceed, it certainly could not fall below, THREE MILLIONS and' " A HALF. That is, grantable places, to the annual amount of three " millions and a half, would be at the disposal of the minister." 30 In my statement, already submitted to you, of the value or estimation of the patronage of the Directors, you will observe that the President of the Board of Controul had the same share of the nomination of writers, cadets, and surgeons, as the Chairman and Deputy have. I estimated that share at 9768 a-year, exclusive of salary. In the extracts given from Mr. Robert Grant's book, you will observe that he estimates the value of the share of writerships and other appointments which is annually given to the President of the Board of Controul at from twenty to .25,000 ! ! If therefore, Gentlemen, a value of twenty, or five-and-twenty thousand pounds is given to the very few writerships, or other ap- pointments, which the President of the Board of Controul receives, I hope the valuation of the whole which I have given, will appear very moderate indeed. I estimate each Director to receive, in mo- ney's worth, o48S4 yearly of patronage, whilst Mr. Robert Grant estimates each Director's share at from ten to ,12,500 per annum each Director having half the share which the President of the Board receives. I submit, therefore, to your candour and justice, whether the statement or calculation of the value of the patronage, which I have offered to your consideration, deserves die epithets of the honorable Director. Had I, indeed, entered the field of hope and expectancy, as the learned gentleman has done, and endeavoured to affix a value to them, the honorable Director might have charged me with being wild and chimerical. For Mr. Robert Grant says, p. 309, " In " estimating, also, the effect of patronage, we must consider not " merely the sum of enjoyment and obligation which it produces, " but the quantity of hope and expectancy, attendance and soli- u citation which it sets in motion." I readily acknowledge that, in my zeal to ascertain the value of patronage bestowed, I had entirely omitted the value of HOPE or EXPECTANCY, and, in that, the learned gentleman has certainly the advantage of me ; but, lean easily suppose that his experience and knowledge of them, from the opportunity he has had of observing the disposal of twenty 31 years' extensive patronage of an honorable Director and relation of his, are much more correct, and more to be depended upon, than mine; and I, therefore, do most earnestly recommend your attention to the result of his experience. We are commonly told that the real value of any thing is best known when we are deprived of it ; and, as the prospect of being deprived of any thing comes nearest the reality, I think you will agree with me that no persons were so capable of valuing the patronage of the Directors as they themselves, or their friends, who feared its loss. The family of the learned gentleman having, for many years, been much interested in the giving away of Indian patronage, he, certainly, may be considered very capable of stating to the public the value of what there was a prospect of his family losing. I cannot, therefore, do better than read a little more of the learned gentleman's reasoning on the subject, to convince you of the im- portance of the patronage of the Directors. He says, p. 309, " Agreeably, how ever, to the narrower mode of contemplating the " subject, it may not be useless to compute what portion of this " vast amount of patronage would actually be in the market each " year." " It seems a very temperate assumption, that every tenth " office would annually be vacated. According to that rule, the " minister would, at the commencement of every session of parlia- " ment, have, at his immediate disposal, vacant offices yielding " 250,000 pounds, or, on an average, TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY " PLACES OF A THOUSAND POUNDS A-YEAR. Let it not be ima- " gined that these representations are extravagant. On the contrary, " not only do they stand on moderate grounds, but some consi- " derations, entirely favourable to the general effect of the argu- " ment pursued, have hitherto been kept out of sight." An honorable Director thinks me disposed to give an high estimate of the value of Indian patronage, but I have been able, with difficulty, to go so great a length as the learned gentleman. In order, however, to show you that he is very nearly correct as to the annual value of patronage in the aggregate, I have drawn out a 32 statement * of all the principal appointments at home and abroad, by which it appears there have been 314 persons annually sent out to India, on an average of the last twenty years ; and, by valuing their appointments a little higher than I did in my first estimate, ' Estimate of the value of patronage, to explain Mr. Robert Grant's statement of the 250 places of ^1000 value each, yearly. In 20 years ending 1812, the number of appoint in outs appears, by the official printed papers of the Select Committee, to have been as follows : Writers to China - - - Ditto to India - - - - Cadets ------ Surgeons - - - - - Bombay Marine - - - Barristers and Attornies Chaplains - - - - - Total No. of Foreign Ap- pointments in 20 Years, 24 at ,4000 each 96,000 2,178,000 1,891,200 " 236,800 15,900 12,500 28,400 Wnn Horne $ Clerks - - - - ^ { Labourers - - - ~ 6,290, or avg. 314 yearly =,4,458,800, or ,222,940 an. a v. r say, instead of^ ,70 or 80,000, I 238, J as stated byMr. [ 5,053,] Grant, only one [ third of thatsum r ^yearly, 27,060 Total Number of Appoint- ments in 20 years - 11,581, or 579 $ will give the yearly \ sum of ,250,000 as estimated by Mr. ROBERT GRANT, for the 250 Places. There are other advantages and means of influence which Directors have, that might be fairly valued, and would swell the amount of their recompense. That of the public loan I shall only mention. The East-India Company receive ,300,000 of every public loan, as part of the ,1,800,000, which the great corporate establishments of London receive. The Chairs have,l6,000, the Directors ,10,000, and the Ex-Directors .8000 each, which they can almost always sell to an advantage. There have been two loans within this 33 and placing to the account only one third of what Mr. R. Grant has valued the home patronage at, the aggregate comes very near his total estimate of .250,000 a-year. I have always thought that the fair mode of calculation, is to take the number of writers, cadets, &c. appointed annually by the Court. I do not think, nor do I wish others to suppose, that ap- pointments are to be brought to a public or a private sale by the Directors ; nor does Mr. Robert Grant, I presume, think so, when he states the amount actually in the market, annually. All that I mean by the estimate is, to show the portion of influence which, to be intelligible to all, can only be valued, in money, at the rate at which it is prized, and could be sold. Whether, therefore, you are pleased to adopt the valuation given by Mr. Robert Grant (of 250,000 a-year), or the valua- tion by me (of 136,760), I think it will appear to be a most liberal and munificent remuneration for the services of the execu- tive body. It has been urged by an honorable gentleman (Mr. Lushing- ton), that men in elevated situations should be most liberally re- warded ; and, that, therefore, we should reward the Directors with a large salary. I have already explained to you the real meaning of liberality, and shall now only observe how his Majesty's ministers are situated as to salary and patronage. That honorable gentleman thinks, that the duties of the Directors are equally important, and require as great abilities, and as much attention, as those of the mi- nisters. The patronage attached to each great officer of state is considerable ; but, as much of it is made subservient to parliament- ary support, and that, almost entirely, under the first lord of the treasury, a minister possibly has not more at his own disposal than a Director; nor do I say that the Directors have more than they year; and each Director has received ,lBjOOQ omnium, winch would give him ,1,800, or ^4,500 profit, according as be may have sold it at 10 or 95 per cent, premium. The Chairs, and Ex-Directors in proportion I But this is not always to be calculated on. c 34 ought to have. But we are told that there is a great difference in the amount of their salaries. The chancellor of the exchequer has .1800 a-year salary, and the three secretaries of state have 6000 each. But, then, it must be recollected, that the ministers have an infinite variety of expenses to provide for; expenses not private, but growing out of their public situation. The etiquette of office calls on them to support a certain degree of expense. When gentlemen, therefore, notice the magnitude of the sums paid to individuals holding those great offices, when they complain that the duties of a Director are equally la- borious with those performed by a secretary of state, and exclaim, " What is 300 a-year, when compared with ex- " ertions like theirs exertions equal to those for which a se- " cretary receives .6000 per annum?" they ought to reflect a little on the application of that sum. If this point were investi- gated, it would be found, that, in general, the salaries allowed to the great officers of state were scarcely sufficient to defray the actual expenses necessarily attending their regular public dinners, ex- penses which could not be avoided. If it should be found, that there were four or five of the Directors whose services were equal to those of the secretaries of state ; that they were umvilling to continue their services for their present recompense, and, that we could not get others equally well qualified to take their situations, it would be a very good reason for increasing the salary of those few, but not of the whole. It is proper to consider how the Di- rectors are situated in this respect. Are they liable to any great expenditure of this kind? certainly not. They can invite public servants, or any others, to the London Tavern, and the Company defrays the expense. It is necessary, therefore, prior to our making any comparison between the duties of a secretary of state, and of a Director, that this line of distinction, relative to the necessary ex- penditure in the two cases, should be fairly marked out. And, taking into view the circumstances which I have mentioned, I am disposed to think that his Majesty's ministers are not better remunerated than the Directors. This must, I think, appear evident, when it is 35 known that the Directors do not incur any kind of expense, except fines at the India House for non-attendance, and these are after- wards divided amongst themselves ; that all charges for entertain- ment are paid, and that many of them employ much of their time in transacting their own business, whilst the time of the secretaries of state is entirely engaged. Having mentioned dinners, it is but justice to the Directors to state, that I had supposed the ex- pense of the entertainments at the London Tavern would have been much greater. I think the expense moderate, scarcely exceeding .5000 a-year, on the average of several years past, which is by no means great, when we consider the number of persons who must necessarily be invited. I canuot, however, avoid stating, that the visitors at these dinners are generally the personal friends of the Directors, instead of being, as they ought to be, the meritorious servants of the Company, who have spent their lifetime in the service. I am sorry to observe, that the old servants, however de- serving, seldom have the honor of an invitation to these entertain- ments, unless they are, at the same time, personal friends of some Director. Such, I have understood, is the practice ; and, I can- not, for various reasons, but regret it. It was my intention to have taken a general review of the state of the Company's finances, abroad and at home, in order to shew the impossibility of your agreeing to the motion on rational prin- ciples ; but, having already occupied a considerable portion of your time, I shall be as concise as possible. I have already pointed out, from the estimates of the India House, an actual deficit, on a balance of the general receipts and disbursements for the current year, of about .472,925, unless the Indian commerce should make up that balance, which is not very probable ; and, it is im- portant you should be satisfied on this subject, before you come to any decision on a question that involves the disposal of large sums of money. On wise political, and reasonable commercial principles, therefore, it behoves us to examine the state of our funds, and to ascertain, whether they are able to support the extra- ordinary disbursement which the present motion calls for. It will be found, by the account(see table opposite) of the revenues and charge of our Indian empire, that the present is not likely to afford so large a surplus as the past year. There was a net surplus revenue of 1,583,205, from India, in 1811-12; but, by the estimate for 18 12- 1-3, there is only an expected net surplus of 560,895 for that year, being an actual decrease of 1,022,310 in our Indian revenue. The causes of this reduction of our net revenue require, in a special manner, the attention of both Directors and Proprietors ; because the annual expenses in India, during the same period, have increased from 13,331,673 to 13,844,442, being an increase of charge, of ,512,769 ; and the gross annual revenues have de- ' creased from 16,548,991, to 16,010,082. One item of that excess of charge has particularly struck my attention; it is the sum of ,410,254 increase, in the civil and judicial charges at Madras, more in the current than in the preceding year. It will be apparent, from this statement, that although your aggregate revenues in India have been doubled within these twenty years past, yet, from the great increase of expense, the surplus Or disposable revenue has diminished ; and that, according to the comparison made by the supporters of the measure, we are less able to bear the expense now than for- merly. It is the duty of this Court, in regulating its expenditure, to be guided by the amount of net revenue^ or surplus ; and not by the aggregate sum collected. I admit there is a surplus of terri- torial revenue ; but is that surplus sufficient to meet our actual (and far less an increased) scale of expenditure ? Or, can we with propriety make a separation of one source of revenue from another, for the payment of our debts ? The interest of our debts and the charges, taken together, are greater, according to the estimate which I have given, than our aggregate income ; and I, therefore, think the present is not a time to incur an additional expense of such magnitude as the increase of salary, which, in the course oft twenty years, the term of our new charter, would, as I have said, accumulate to upwards of ^604,000 ! These are considerations which, I think, ought to check the ardour of those who ate most anxious to press the measure forward. 37 ' S3 TH a " O O C* >O O TH co *o -^ of o * t^ *. to. l CO TH 1 TH O 2 i ' c eo" tJ" eo TJ< -^ o oT S ^ c * i i a .S "5^ lH . j I t* '-* V so i * ' 4 o a \ P " ** i^ B 2^ fl * HH Q D (U "N ^* *? ^3 -^ ^ ^ 9 1 JiD f e/i ^ fl r S c u o ^d* ^ < u be a "3 . p jv cf w ^ 4 f f , s 1 II S 6 ^3 W OQ so'- I t: | |1| O g S 3 o 3i C< CO ^ co &! co eo pq ^ pq H HH 02 F 1 O CO of S O O G^ CO O * "s- 1 ^ . -3 fH G^ *"! O C* | p 20 ~ S * - TH 3 TH T-l f. O^ ""J t 00 g. 1 1 II 5 Ci s 1 J. s- o ~~ '*- O ^ s w ^ O vf O ^ TH TH -H S ^ rt c TJ CO t^ ^ TH ^c tw H O O> CO o J *u ' hi TH CO JH r^. TH C5 > " O CO ?O CO *^5 >^ o o oo * /^v , ^ _a 'rt c c o ej U a} S ? S w ,S -J ~3 1 1 * "^ -S o .S . S SL, "^ . ' 11 cT S 2 s i^ n^ "*i P^ ' * 1 ' TH CO b- C co p o O O to 1 O O <0 Q f Oi O O J5 g b- ^ CO O> Tf ^o CO CO O> T-l I . o "tT T" rs 1 1 5 o" .. TH o i CM c 1 i e? B H^ C3 T n! J5 1 D 1 i 1 1 M |^ eo T-l CO "S T-l ja E 1 O 1 , fcT id China, and E nd Warehouses d Stock - - at Madras, Bom >t Accounts - Stores, Expediti 1 t 1 I 1 1 & a S ILES CARTWRIGI Accountant 3 CO" CO~ N> CO T-l 1-1 "3 " 1 t*> O 0> 1 B o c i rs c# 3 f "gJ S 1 B >2 M mputation on Ma r 'S S CM O o fr 9 Jg 2.2 *T| oes sent to India e of India-House e of Ships and Di 7 2 w S. JS ^ . W 1 ~ 2 S S *. 3* g S O aT '3 CM .S g < bb < vj ^ 2* O fi S o C "3 ^ S S O 5^ n co T-l T-l B S f, 13 ust has increased o c ~ rj O ^ ? ^ 5 _S s 13 ~ ^ ^ ci 15 s*-t 13 _& 3 to V < O V > > W ' Q PC) x^ ^ ~ n * (^ !/3 t> .^ - B i 'rt "* re ^^ o U o? C CO T-I CO 0* CO CO O O Tj O co r co o a o co ^ O T-. C 3 S 1 a ci of ccf C > CO ^ o c i O Oi C f 13 5,1 CO 0' C 3 CO to CO er ) CO CO U C2 a CO T co_ c: t^- -* 1 C > of