Xl 3 . (4.

THE LIBRARY

THE UNIVERSITY

OF CALIFORNIA

LOS ANGELES

...^-j

G Soaaf.Jaif d^

Prmted b/ ItrdiVfesi

MONUMENT OF FRANCIS HORNER, MP
irv Wesiminsler Ahhey.
Executed V Sir FraJicis CliajitiN'.

MEMOIRS

AND COPiP.ESPONDENCE

FRANCIS HORNER, M.P.

EDITED BY HIS BROTHER,

LEONARD HORNER, ESQ. F.R.S.

IN TWO VOLUMES.

VOL. IT.

BOSTON:
LITTLE, BROAVN AND COMPANY.

1853.

Entered according to Act of Congrcfs in the year 1853, by

LITTLE, BllOWN AND COxMPANY,

In the Clerk's Office of the District Court of the District of Massachusetts.

CAMBRIDGE :
ALLEN AND FAKNILVM, VKINTEUS.

CONTENTS

THE SECOND VOLUME,

1810.

"^ Page

House of Commons. Mr. Horner brings forward the question

of the State of the Currency ; appointment of

the BuUion Committee ..... 1

Letter 150. Fkoje J. A. Murray, Esq. Has heard reports

of Mr. Horner being about to accept a political

office, and dissuades him from it ... 3

151. To Sir Samuel Romilly. Urging him to print

a speech he had made on a reform of the Crimi-
nal Law ........ 4

152. To Lord Grenville. Asks his advice as to his

proceedings on the Cun-ency question . . 5

153. From Lord Grenville. Satisfaction that Mr.

Horner has taken up the subject of the Cur-
rency ........ 6

Notes by Mr. Horner. On the vote of the House of Com-
mons on the Walcheren expedition ; and on the
question of privilege in the commitment of Sir F.

Burdett to the Tower 8

Letter 153.* To Dugald Stewart, Esq. Dr. Brown ap-
pointed Mr. Stewart's successor in the Chair
of Moral Philosophy ; unsatisfactory state of
public affiiirs ; conduct of the Opposition in Par-
liament ........ 10

Letter 154. To Lord Holland. Question of privilege . 12
House of Commons. Speeches of Mr. Horner on the same . 13
Letter 155. To J. A. Murray, Esq. The same subject . 15

yi CONTENTS.

Letter 15G. To the same. Scotch parliamentary reform . 19

157. To THE SAME. Report of the Bullion Committee;

opmions of Lord Erskine and Sir S. Romilly on
the question of privilege ; Sir F. Burdett's re-
turn from the Tower ; his character ; Mr. George
Wilson 20

158. To F. Jeffrey, Esq. Bullion Report ; protests

against the introduction of party politics into the
Edinburgh Review; Mr. Jeffrey's critique on
" Crabbe's Borough " . ... 24

158.* To J. A. Murray, Esq. Plan for their passing
the vacation together ; observations on the ques-
tion of privilege of Parliament . . . .27

159. To J. A. Murray, Esq. Projects a visit to

Ireland 30

IGO. To his Mother. Account of his tour in Ireland 31
160.* To the Rev. T. R. Malthus. The Bullion

Report 35

160.** To the Duke of Somerset. Impressions

from a visit to Ireland . . . . .36

161. To DuGALD Stewart, Esq. Subject of the

Bullion Report ...... 38

162. To J. A. Murray, Esq. Currency question;

illness of the King ...... 40

163. To the same. Mr. Percival's letter to the Prince

of Wales on the question of the Regency . . 43
House of Commons. Mr. Horner speaks on the Regency

question ; report of his speech . . . .44

1811.

Letter 164. To F. Jeffrey, Esq. Suggests some subjects
for the Edinburgh Review; his opmion on the
question of peace ; the Prince has sent for Lords
Grenville and Grey ...... 47

165. From Lord Grenville. Asks Mr. Homer to be

one of the Secretaries of the Treasury, in the
event of a change of ministry taking place . 54

166. To J. A. Murray, Esq. Tells him of the offer

made to him by Lord Grenville, and of his having
declined it 55

CONTENTS. y

Letter IGG.* To the Hon. Mrs. "W. Spencer. Life of Sir

Tliomas More . . . . . . .56

166.** To, J. A. Murray, Esq. Mr. Murray has
refused a judicial office. Such offices privcn by
then government of Scothmd to political partisans 58
167. To THE Hon. Mrs. W. Spencer. His progress
on the circuit ; is going to pass the autumn with
his father's family at Torquay . . . .60

House of Commons. Mr. Horner's proceedings in bringing the
Report of the Bullion Committee under the con-
sideration of the House , . . . .62

Letter 168. To his Father. Account of the debate on the

Bullion Report 67

169. From the Rev. T. R. Malthus. Mr. Horner's

speech on the Bullion Report . . . .69

170. To HIS Father. Currency question ; illness of

the King 69

170.* To J. A. Murray, Esq. Death of Lord Presi-
dent Blair; his character . . . . .71

171. To J. A. Murray, Esq. His speech on the Bul-

lion Report ....... 73

172. To the Hon. Mrs. W. Spencer. Tunbridge

Wells ; the nightingale's note . . . .75
172.* To J. A. Murray, Esq. Aspect of domestic
politics ; Character of the Prince Regent ; Duke
of Cumberland and Lord Yaraiouth leading him 76 v^

173. To Lord Grenville. The Currency question 78 -'^

174. To HIS Brother. Advice on his geological pur-

suits ; invites him to come to Torquay . . 81

175. To HIS Brother. Describes the geological

atti'actions of the neighbourhood of Torquay ;
remarks on " Playfair's Illustrations of the Hut-
tonian Theory " 82

176. To Lord Webb Seyjiour. His brother's geo-

logical pursuits ; his own occupations at Torquay 86
176.* To J. A. Murray, Esq. The same subject as

letter 172* - . 88

177. To John Allen, Esq. Transactions of the Gov-

ernment in Ireland ...... 90

178. To J. A. Murray, Esq. Question .of the accept-

ance of a judicial office by an mdividual differing
A*

^2 CONTENTS.

in politics from the Government wliicli confers it ;

Lord Gillies 92

House of Commons. Mr. Horner speaks on the subject of

sinecure OlFices . . • • • .04

1812.

Letter 179. To J. A. Murray, Esq. Mr. Brougham's speech

on the Droits of Admiralty . . . .96

180. To THE Rev. T. R. Maltdus. Lancaster's

Schools, and the National Schools . . .97

181. To J. A. Murray, Esq. Failures of negotiations

for a change of Ministry 98

182. To Henry Hallam, Esq. State of his Health ;

intends to visit Scotland ; conduct of Lords Grey
and Grenville in the late negotiations for their
coming into office ; affairs of Spain . . .100

183. To HIS Brother. Visit to the Rev. John Poole's

village school in Somersetshire .... 103

184. To J. A. Murray, Esq. Intending to visit

Scotland 105

185. From Lord Webb Seymour. Asks Mr. H. to

pass some time at Bulstrode ; anxiety about his
health 107

186. To Mrs. L. Horner. Ls going to Malvern . 108

187. To HIS Sister, Miss Horner. Journey in

Scotland; society at Edinburgh; visits Mr.
Dugald Stewart 109

188. To J. A. Murray, Esq. Has been visiting Mr.

Brougham in Westmoreland; Sir S. Romilly's
canvass at Bristol . . . . . .114

189. To THE Rev. Sydney Smith. Liforms hmi that

he is not to be in the new parliament . .115

190. To Sir Samuel Romilly. Sir S. R. having

been defeated at Bristol, he urges him not to
refuse to sit for a borough, if offered to him . 116

191. From the same. Answer to the preceding . 117

192. To Lord Holland. Has heard that he is to

have a seat in parliament through the friendship
of Lord Grenville ; urges the preferable claims
of Sir S. Romilly 118

CONTENTS.

Vll

Lettek 193. To J. A. Murray, Esq. Regrets that Mr.
Brougham has been unsuccessful in tlie election
for Liverpool, and hopes that he will find another
seat ; announces his own expectation of being in
the new parliament . . . . . .120

194. To THE SAME. Mr. Brougham's great success at

the bar ; his speech in defence of Hunt ; Russian
campaign of the French . . . . .123

195. To THE SAME. EiFect of the property tax on the

farmers in Scotland; Lord EUenborough's con-
duct on Hunt's trial 126

1813.

Letter 196. To Henry Hallam, Esq. Rejoices in a majority
in favour of the Catholic claims in the House of
Commons . . . . , . .128

197. From Wm. Freemantle, Esq. Offer to Mr.

Horner of a seat in parliament . . .130

198. To the same. Accei^ting the offer . . . 131

199. To Lord Holland. Catholic Relief Bill . 131 'N
House of Commons. Mr. Horner returned for St. Mawes ; he

speaks on a bill on the affairs of India, and on ^

the Corn Laws 133 f^

Letter 200. To Lord Grenville. Breaking up of Mr.

Canning's party in parliament . . . .135

201. To Lady Holland. The Speaker's speech to

the Throne at the close of the session . .137

202. From Lord Grenville. Dissolution of Mr.

Canning's party ; the Speaker's speech , . 138

203. To HIS Sister, Miss A. Horner. Visits to

Mr. Rose and his son, in Ham2)shire . .139
203.* To J. A. Murray, Esq. Mr. Jeffrey's voyage
to the United States ; management of the Edin-
burgh RevieAV during his absence ; Mr. Horner
proposes to contribute some articles; visit at
Cheltenham 140

204. To HIS Sister, Miss Horner. Visit to Lady

Carnegie at Cheltenham ; Mr. Rogers ; advice

as to a course of reading . . . . .142

205. To J. A. Murray, Esq. Campaign in Germany ;

death of Moreau 145

Yiii CONTENTS.

Letter 20G. To John Allen, Esq. "What the foreign policy

of the opposition party onght at present to be . 146
207. To Loud AVEUii Seymour. Visits at Chelten-
ham and at Minto ; and to Mr. Dugald

Stewart 147

207.* To Thomas Thomson, Esq. Article by Sir
James Mackintosh in the Edinburgh Review on
Madame de Stael's Allcmagne . • . .149

House of Commons. Mr. Horner takes a more active part
in the business of the House ; speaks on the
Lace Frame-breaking Bill ; on an Insolvent ,

Debtors' Bill ; on the Poor-Law Bill . .151 X«^

1814.

Letter 208. To Lord Grenville. The Speaker's speech
at the close of last session a breach of privi-
lege 156

209. To J. A. Murray, Esq. New volume of Mr.
Dugald Stewart's Philosophy of the Human
Mind 158

House of Commons. Mr. Horner speaks on the Corn Laws,
and on the Slave Trade; reports of these
speeches ; lie speaks also on the Irish Peace- ^

Preservation BUI ; and on the Alien Bill . . 159 -^

Letter 210. To his Father. Increase in his professional

business 163

211. To J. A. Murray, Esq. Plan of a tour on the

Continent . . . . • • .163

212. To THE SAME. Plan for their continental tour . 165

213. To Mrs. Dugald Stewart. Tells her of his

continental tour, and asks Mr. Stewart to sug-
gest to some persons in France to write in the
cause of the abolition of the Slave Trade . .166
213.* To Mrs. Dugald Stewart. Conduct of the
Prince Regent to his daughter, the Princess
Charlotte, on her proposed marriage with the
Prince of Orange 168

214. To HIS Sister, Miss A. Horner. Account

of some visits in Devonshire ; to Mr. Jeremy
Bentham at Ford Abbey 172

CONTENTS. ix

Letter 215. To ins Mother. From Dieppe . . . 17;3
21G. To THE SAME. From Rouen . . . . 17G

217. To HIS Sister, Miss Horner. From Ptiris , 177

218. To the same. From Geneva .... 179

219. To Mrs. L. Horner. From Brieg in tlic Yal-

lais 182

220. From Lord Holland, enclosing a letter to

Lafayette 187

221. The Letter to Lafayette .... 188

222. To HIS Sister, Miss A. Horner. From Milan 189

223. To DuGALD Stewart, Esq. Account of Lis

visit to Paris and of some of the persons he had
seen ; M. Gallois ; M. de Gerando ; M. CamUle
Jourdan ; M. Suard ; the Abhe Morellet ; pros-
pects of France 19 G

224. To J. A. Murray, Esq. Introduction of juries

in civil actions in Scotland .... 201

House of Commons. Mi\ Horner takes an active part in the
debates.

Outline of his speech on the Treaty with the King

of Naples 203

Outline of his speech on the Irish Peace-Pre-
servation Bill 208

Outline of his speech on the conduct of the
naval war against the United States of

America 209

Letter 225. To Sir James Mackintosh, at Paris. Message
to Madame de Stael about a letter of Burke ;
debates in the House of Commons on the pro-
ceedings of the Congress at Vienna . . .212
225.* To J. A. Murray, Esq. On the American

war of that time ...... 213

226. From the same. Account of a communication

he has had witli the Duke of Wellington at Paris,
on the subject of the abolition of the Slave Trade
by France 215

1815.

227. From the Hon. Geo. Ponsonby. Proposes

that Mr. Horner should briner forward a motion

X CONTENTS.

for a committee of inquiry into the conduct of
the American war . . . . . .219

Letter 228. To J. A. Mckkay, Esq. Jury trial ; tlie Corn
Laws, and opinion of Mr. Mahhus upon
them 220

229. To THE Rev. T. R. Malthus. On the Corn

Laws 222

House op Commons. Mr. Horner speaks on the transfer of
Genoa to the King of Sardinia ; and on the Com

Laws 228

Letter 229.* From Lord Holland, from Naples. Char-
acter of Murat, King of Naples . . . 231

230. To HIS Father. His speeches on Genoa, and

the Corn Laws ...... 237 ^

23L Wm. Murray, Esq., to Mr. Horner's Father.

The same subject ...... 239

House of Commons. Mr. Horner speaks on the Bank Re-
striction Act 240 /

Letter 232. To Earl Grey. On differences of opinion
among the leaders of the opposition on the inva-
sion of France by the allies .... 243
232.* To J. A. Murray, Esq. Expects Mr. Murray
to visit London ; gloomy prospects in political
affairs, from the projects of Bonaparte, on his
return from the island of Elba .... 244

233. To HIS Father. The same subject ; possibility

of these differences affecting him as to his seat in
parhament ....... 249

234. To THE SAME. The same subject ; explanation

with Lord Grenville 250

235. To F. Jeffrey, Esq. Mr. Jeffrey's villa ; re-

commendation as to the laying out of his
garden ........ 253

236. To THE ]Marquis of Buckingham. Offers to ^

resign his seat in parliament .... 254 A

237. From the same. Reply to the preceding letter .256 /

238. To his Father. His recent correspondence with

the Marquis of Buckingham .... 257
House of Commons. Mr. Horner speaks on the treaty with

the King of Naples 258

Letter 238.* To Mrs. Dugald Stewart. Renewal of the

war against France 259

CONTENTS. ^j

Letter 238.** To Mrs. Dugald Stewart. Proceedings in
parliament on the question of war with France ;
preparations of Bonaparte . . . .262

238.t To Francis Jeffrey, Esq. His views on the
question of war with France ; Jury Court in
Scotland . . . . . . . .204

House of Commons. Mr. Horner speaks on a bill for the reg-
ulation of the labour of children in the factories 2G6 /^
Letter 239. To F. Jeffrey, Esq. On the question of war ;
vindicates himself against the supposition of his
being an admirer of Bonaparte . . . .267

239.* To his Mother. From the Circuit ; deaths of
friends at the battle of Waterloo ; the Duke of
Cumberland and his Mother .... 270

239.** To the Hon. Mrs. W. Spencer. Death of

Mr. Whitbread 271

239.t To the Duke of Somerset. Character of Mr.

Whitbread 272

240. To Henry Hall am, Esq. Death of Mr. Whit-

bread ; his character in the House of Commons ;
invasion of France by the allies . . .273

240.* To HIS Mother. Death of a relation ; sends

assistance to the widow ..... 277

241. From the same. State of France . . . 278
241.* From his Mother. Answer to the preceding

letter 280

242. To HIS Mother. Bonaparte in Torbay ; letter

from Charles Bell, Esq 282

243. From Charles Bell, Esq., Surgeon. Account

of his professional visit to Brussels, after the
battle of Wat<!rloo ; description of his operations
on the wounded ...... 283

243.* To his Mother. Describes a visit in East
Lothian ; Fletcher of Saltoun ; visit to Lord
Grey at Howick ; anecdotes of Queen Charlotte 285

243.** To J. A. Murray, Esq. Character of Lord

President Forbes 288

244. To HIS Sister, Miss Horner. The poem of

Don Roderick ; Mr. Milman's tragedy of Fazio . 289
244,* To Earl Grey. Admiration of the political

conduct of a friend 290

Xll

CONTENTS.

291

292

294

Letter 244.** Fro^i Earl Grey. Answer to tlie preceding
letter

245. To THE SAME. Has met with Canova in London ;

expedition to the Niger ....

246. To J. A. Murray, Esq. Is anxious to see a

review by Mr. Jeffrey on the state of France;
distress at finding his own views in pohtics so
different from those of many of his friends .

247. To Thomas Thomson, Esq. On the state of

public affairs, and dread of the illusions that mili-
tary success may give rise to ; Collins's OdQ on
the Superstitions in the Highlands ; Travels in
France, by Mr. Alison ; visit to Sir James Mack-
intosh ......•■

247.* To Lady Holland. Condemnation of one who
had accepted a political appointment improperly

248. To THE same. Early history of Scotland; public

affairs ; treaty of Paris ....
248.* To THE Duchess of Somerset. Conduct of
the allies in Paris against the French people .

249. To DuGALD Bannatyne, Esq. Itinerant book

sellers in the country around Glasgow ; recent
proceedings at Paris ....

From Lord Grenville. Mr. Dugald Stewart's
Preliminary Essay in the Encyclopaedia Britan-
nica ; expulsion of Locke from Oxford

From the same. The same subject .

To HIS Sister, Miss A. Horner. Mr. Stew-
art's Preliminary Essay ....

To THE Duke of Somerset. The same subject 309
* To Lord Grenville. Expulsion of Locke
from Oxford 310

250.

251.
252.

253.
253.

296

299

301

303

304

306

307

308

1816.

313

Letter 254. To his Mother. Account of a visit at Woburn
Abbey ...••••

255. To J. A. Murray, Esq. Unsettled state of the

financial affairs of the country ; dangers attend-
ing the investment of capital . . . .314

256. To HIS Sister, Miss A. Horner. Advises her

CONTENTS. Xiii

to read parts of SU'wart's Philosophy of the

Human Mind, and refers to them . . . ol7

Letter 257. To the Duchess of Somerset. Prosjject of

divisions in the opposition i>arty in parliament on

th? subject of France . . . . .319
House of Commons. Mr. Horner takes an active share in the

business of the House this Session.
Outline of his speech on an Amendment to the

Address . . . . . . . .321

Outline of his speech on the Naval Victories

dui'ing the war . . . . . . . 323

Outline of his speech on the Peace Establishment 325
Brings forward a Bill to correct the proceedings

of Grand Juries in Ireland .... 328
History of this measure, in a letter to Mr. Murray 32i)
Note by Mr. Sj^ring Rice in 1831 on the beneficial

effects of the measure . . . . . 33G
House of Commons. Mr. Horner's speech on the treaties of

Peace ........ 339

Letter 258. To his Mother. On his speech on the Treaties 340^

259. From James Macdonald, Esq., M. P. The

same subject ....... 341

260. From John Whishaw, Esq. The same subject 341

261. To J. A. Murray, Esq. Aspect of pubHc

affairs ; dread of the efiects of the increase of
the militai-y establishments of the country . . 342

262. To Henry Haulam, Esq. Captivity of Bona-

parte in St. Helena ...... 344

263. From the same. Defeat of ministers on the

Property Tax ; detention of Bonaparte . . 345

264. From Lord Webb Seymour. Change in their

several views on political affairs ; objects to the
line Mr. Horner has taken in his opposition to
the Government; danger of the judgment l)eing
warped by party connexions and attachments . 347

House of Commons. Mr. Horner speaks on the Alien Bill,
and brings forward a motion on the resumption
of Cash Payments by the Bank of England . 354 /\

Letter 265. To his Sister, Miss A. Horner. Describes
a visit with Mr. Grattan to Mr. Sharp's farm at
Mickleham ; Scott's novel of the Antiquary . 355
VOL. II. B

xiv CONTENTS.

Lettek 2GG. To iiis Father. Commencement of his last

illness 356

2G7. To the same. Proposes to visit Edinburgh . 357

268. Xo Thomas Thomson, Esq. On the death of

Mr. George Wilson . . . *" . . .358

269. To Lord Webb Seymour. On the death of Mr.

George Wilson, and reply to his Lordship's letter.
No. 264 359

House of Commons. Mr. Horner's last appearance in Parlia-
ment ; outline of his Speech on the occasion of
Mr. Canning's declaring a speedy settlement of
the Catholic claims to have become necessary . 361

Letter 270. To his Mother. Describes a visit at Woburn

Abbey, and at Stowe . . . . .364

27L To Lady Holland. From his father's house
near Edinburgh ; is consulting the Edinburgh
physicians . . . . . . .367

272. To W. J. Adam, Esq. The physicians have

ordered him to suspend all professional engage-
ments . . . . . • . . 368

273. To Lady' Holland. Proposes to live in-doors

all winter in his house in London . . .368

274. From Lord Holland. Account of Ugo Fos-

colo ; restrictions on Bonapai'te ; abolition of
sinecure offices . . . . . .369

275. To Lady Holland. His physicians at Edin-

burgh have recommended him to spend the win-
ter in the South of Eurojje .... 371

276. From Lady Holland. Urges Mr. Horner to

spend the winter in Holland House . . . 372

277. From Lord Holland. Makes the same re-

quest ; Ugo Foscolo ; Kean's acting . . .373

278. To Lady' Holland. Has decided upon going

abroad ; choice of place ..... 374

279. From Sir Samuel Romilly. Sorrow for Mr.

Horner's state of health 377

280. To his Father. Consultation with Drs. Baillie

and Warren . . . . . . .377

281. To Henry Hallam, Esq. Tells him he is going

abroad ; his anxiety about the state of the coun-
try ; financial difficulties 378

CONTENTS. XV

Letter 282. To nis Father. Dr. Baillie's opinion on his
case ; preparing for his journey ; proposes to go
to Pisa 380

283. From the Rev. Sydney Smith. His friend's

iUness 381

284. To Mrs. L. Horner, from CaLais . . .381

285. From Lord Holland to Mr. Horner's father . 383

286. To Lady Holland, from Paris. The Hon. J.

W. Ward ; Mr. Canning ; the uUra royalists
declaring for freedom of the press . . . 384

287. To Mrs. Dugald Stewart, from Lyons; state

of his health ; political state of France . . 386

288. To Lady Holland, from Susa: passage over

Mont Cenis 389

289. To Mrs. Sydney Smith, from Turin . . 390

290. To Lady Holland, from Turin ; progress of his

journey ; has heen reading Sismondi's Italian
Republics; dearth of new books in Turin . . 391

291. To HIS Mother, from Genoa; describes the

journey from Turin by Asti and Alessandria ;
state of his health ; is going by sea to Leghorn 394

292. To Lady Holland. Arrival at Pisa; is plan-

ning Avhat he shall read during the winter . .396

293. To J. A. Murray, Esq. Reminiscences of their

former journey through the same country he had
recently crossed ; state of his health ; climate of
Pisa; is studying Dante and Machiavel . . 399

594. To Lady Holland. M. Dumont has been in
Italy ; is making a study of Dante ; MachiaA'el's
Legations, his Letters, his " Prince ; " Altieri's
Life ; Sismondi's History ..... 402

205. To Mrs. Dugald Stewart. Remarkable let-
ter of Machiavel ; his " Prince "... 405

296. To J. A. Murray, Esq. On the Law of Scot-

land, as it affects the liberty of the subject, with
regard to persons accused of crimes ; reforms in
the law seldom favoured by lawyers . . . 407

297. To Lord Holland. On public afiairs in Eng-

land ; chief subjects for discussion in the ap-
proaching session of Parliament ; the military

XVI

CONTENTS.

establishments and foi'eign policy ; abolition of
sinecures ; importance of guarding vested rights ;
parliamentary reform ; finance ; reduction of the
army ........ 412

1817.

Letter 298. To his Mother. Climate of Pisa; sufferings

of the poor in Tuscany, from the bad harvest . 417

299. From Johx Allex, Esq. Dr. BailHe's opinion

of Mr. Horner's case . . . . .419

300. To Lady Holland. Has consulted a physician

at Pisa, Dr. Vacca ; information about the art of
Niello .420

301. From Lord Holland. Preparations for the

meeting of Parliament ; abolition of sinecures ;
parliamentary rcfoi-m . ... . . 422

302. To Earl Grey. Anxiety about the measures,

relative to finance and expenditure, to be adopted ,

in the ensuing session of Parliament . . 424 X

303. To Lady Holland. State of his health ; some

symptoms of improvement ; is reading Father
Paul's Council of Trent ; death of Lord Guild-
ford at Pisa 426

304. To the same. Favourable weather, and improve-

ment of his health ; Father Paul's Council of
Trent 428

305. To HIS Father. Encouraging symptoms as to

the improvement of his health ; is enjoying the
genial spring weather ; and is interested in the
field labours of the peasantry .... 429
Mr. Horner's last Illness and Death. Sudden attack,
and alanaing symptoms ; his own unconscious-
ness of danger . . . . . .432

tributes to the memory of MR. HORNER.

By Mk. Allen, in an announcement of Mr. Horner's death in

the Morning Chronicle newspapci' ..... 439
By Mu. Allen, in a letter to Mr. Horner's father . . . 440 . '

CONTENTS.

XVll

By Mr. Wiiisiiaw .

By the House of Commons

By Mr. Jei-^frey

By Mr. Dugald Stewart

By Sir James Mackintosh

By the Rev. John Hewlett

By the Rev. Dr. Parr

By the Rev. Sydney Smith .

By Earl Dudley .

By the Speculative Society at Edinburgh

Monument in Westminster Abbey

M0NU3IENT in THE CeMETERY AT LEGHORN .

443
443
4.55

457
459
4G0
4G2
4G3
408
469
469
470

APPENDIX.

D. Notes by Mr. Horner on Dante, with remarks on

THEM BY Herman Merivale, Esq. .... 475

E. "Designs" 479

F. Post-mortem Examination 486

G. Subscribers to the Monument in Westminster Abbey 489

selection from MR. horner's speeches in parliament.

I. On the Regenfcy Question, December, 1810 . . . 493

II. On the Corn Laws, May, 1814 508

IIL On the Shxve Trade, Jnne, 1814* 512

IV. On the Ti-ansfer of Genoa to Sardmia, February, 1815 . 519

V. On the Corn LIiavs, February, 1815 523

VI. On the Introduction of Juries in Civil Actions in Scotland,

March, 1815 534

VIL On the Treaties of Peace, February, 1816 . . .540
VIII. On the Alien Act, April and May, 1816] . . . .555

IX. On the Resum})tion of Cash Payments by the Bank of

England, May, 1816 563

MEMOIRS AND CORRESPONDENCE

FRANCIS HOKNEH, M.P.

Parliament met on the 23d of January, and on the 1st
of February Mr. Horner took the initiatory step in the
inquiry into the alleged depreciation of Bank notes,
which he afterwards so ably conducted. It was this
measure which first brought him into general notice as
a member of the House of Commons, more especially
in the following year, when the publication of the Re-
port of the Bullion Committee, the debates in both
Houses of Parliament, which arose out of that Report,
and the measures that were adopted relative to the cur-
rency, excited the public attention to a high pitch. On
this occasion, he moved for a variety of accounts and
returns respecting the existing state of the circulating
medium and the bullion trade. He said, —

" That it was his decided opinion, that it was neces-
sary for the House to make an inquiry into the causes
of the present high price of bullion, and the consequent
effect upon the value of the paper currency, not only
on account of the real importance of the subject, but in
consequence of the great misconceptions which too gen-
erally prevailed respecting the causes of the actual situa-
tion of the country, with reference to this subject; that

VOL. 11. 1

2 HOUSE OF COABIONS. [1810.

the most effectual mode of investigating this highly in-
teresting question would be by a select committee, and
that it was therefore his intention, on an early day, to
move for such a committee : but that it would be not
only convenient, but indispensable, in the first instance,
to obtain all such information, on the whole of the sub-
ject, as papers might afford; which information could
afterwards be referred to the committee." — After some
farther general observations, he concluded by moving
for eight different returns respecting bullion and the
issue of Bank notes.

The committee was nominated on the 19th of Febru-
ary, without any preliminary remarks by Mr. Horner.
It was directed, " to inquire into the cause of the high
price of gold bullion, and to take into consideration the
state of the circulating medium, and of the exchanges
between Great Britain and foreign parts." It consisted
of twenty-one members/== and met on the 22d, when Mr.
Horner was chosen as chairman. It continued its sittings
till the 25 th of May, having sat thirty-one days, and ex-
amined twenty-nine witnesses. Mr. Horner was in the
chair at twenty-one of the meetings : between the 19th
of March and the 16th of April he was absent on the
circuit, when the chair was generally taken by Mr. Hus-
kisson.

On the 8th of June, Mr. Horner presented the Report
of the Committee to the House.

* Among the members of the committee were the following : — The Right
Hon. Spent-er Pcrcival, Chancellor of the Exchequer; the Right Hon. George
Tierney ; the Hon. James Abercromby (the present Lord Dunfermline) ;
Henry' Parnell, Esq. (the late Lord Congleton) ; Alexander Baring, Esq.
(the present Lord Ashburton) ; "William Huskisson, Esq. ; and Henry Thorn-
ton, Esri-, Bank Director, and author of the work on the Paper Credit of
Great Britain, reviewed in the Edinburgh Review by Mr. Horner, in October,
1802. — Ed.

iEx. 32.] CORRESPONDENCE.

Lettkii CL. from J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
My dear Horner, ICdinburgh, Sth February, 1810.

I was much gratified with your note of the 30th.
I had before heard various reports that you were to
form a part of a new administration. You were some-
times designed Secretary for Ireland, and various other
pohtical situations were assigned to you. The same
morning that your letter arrived, I had some conversa-
tion on the subject before I received it, and I expressed
my belief very confidently that you would not accept
any political situation. If I had received your letter at
the time, I might perhaps have been a little more re-
served in expressing my opinion than I was, when I did
not even know that it had been offered, and felt no
restraint from that circumstance, and your kind and
friendly confidence. You have decided most wisely for
your own happiness, and I think well in every other
respect. I believe there is no department in which your
attainments and views can be of so much use as in that
which you have traced out for yourself If you remain
out of office, your weight and influence upon general
questions will increase every year. You will have the
choice of those in which your interference may be of use ;
and in the great department of the legislation connected
with English law, the circumstance that 3'ou belong to
the profession will give you more authority and influ-
ence, than you would have were you to leave it. Who
is there to second Eomilly, and to succeed to his views
and principles in the profession ? In all great and essen-
tial points you agree, and the tone of your opinions is
more English, which may enable you to make improve-
ments palatable, which he has failed in accomplishing.

4 CORRESPONDENCE. [1810.

Much is also to be clone in opposing bad laws, and there
the circumstance of being a lawyer is of great im-
portance. I consider a new ministry as now out of the
question.

Ever yours truly,

J. A. Murray.

Lkttkr CLI. to sir SAMUEL ROMILLY.
My dear Sir Lincoln's Inn, 10th Februai'y, 1810.

It appears to me to be very important that you
should publish your speech of last night, if you can pos-
sibly find leisure for it while it is still fresh in your
mind.'-= The irresistible argument for your particular
bills, which is founded upon the returns, will not be seen
in all its force, unless the numbers are all set down ; and
then I am quite persuaded, that, upon the subject of a
reform of the criminal law, the public is quite ready for
instruction, if delivered to them with the authorit}^ of
your name, and with the attractions which your topics
of reasoning and illustration cast over the argument.
It is because you cannot know this so well as others,
that I take the liberty of suggesting to you to make
this exertion, always an irksome one, but which will be
greatly and immediately useful. It will tend very much
to make 3-our future progress, in the same subject, more

* " Fch. OtJi. — I moved for, and obtained leave, to bring into the House of
Commons three bills to repeal the acts of 10 & 11 AVill. IIL c. 23., 12 Anne,
St. 1. c. 7., and 2-1 Geo. II., -which punish with death the crimes of stealing
privately in a shop goods of the value of five shillings, and of stealing to the
amount of forty shillings in dwelling-houses, or on board vessels in navigable
rivers. The Solicitor-General, with his usual panegyrics on the wisdom of
past ages, and declamations on the danger of interfering with what is already
established, announced his intention of opposing the bills after they should be
brought in."

",i/flrr7( 12///. — I published the substance of my speech of the 9th of Febru-
ary, in the form of a pamphlet."

Memoirs of Sir Samuel Iiomill>/, (1st edit.) vol. ii. p. 303.

2Et. 32.] CORRESPONDENCE. 5

easy. Nothing seems to me so certain now, as that par-
liament in all these matters of legislative improvement
follows only the public opinion ; and that to overcome
in the House of Commons the resistance of which Plomer
is so worthy a leader, you must bring the weight of pub-
lic opinion to bear upon the House, by enlightening it
through the press. On the subject of the criminal law,
the prejudices are all among the lawyers ; the public in
general seem to have none, and at the same time take a
lively interest always in such discussions.
Ever, my dear Sir,

Sincerely yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLII. TO LORD GRENVILLE.
JVIy Lord Lincoln's Inn, 11th February, 1810.

The unsatisfactory returns which are made to
the orders which I moved for in the House of Commons
upon the subject of Bullion and Currency, and the
ready desire which was expressed on both sides of the
House to see that subject fully examined, induce me to
propose in a few days the appointment of a select com-
mittee. But before going so far in a matter of such
public importance, I feel an anxious wish to have the
sanction and benefit of your Lordship's advice as to the
proper objects, as well as the best course of investiga-
tion ; in order that it may be conducted to an useful re-
sult. Hitherto, I have abstained from forming any con-
clusion, even in my own mind, respecting the causes of
the present state of money prices ; nor am I sure that I
have yet gained a clear and exact notion of that change,
whethep depreciation or not, of which the cause remains
to be ascertained. In this suspense of opinion, I have

g CORRESPONDENCE. [1810.

been desirous, before I enter into the inquiry, to collect
the various solutions which the difficulty may seem to
admit of at present, while our information is incomplete,
in order that the search for farther information may be
so directed as to bring each of those explanations to the
test. I fear that I ask too much of your Lordship,
whose time is so filled up, in requesting that you would
have the goodness to instruct me in the views, which
your Lordship entertains upon this important question ;
but I am prompted to make that request, by my anx-
iety to get into the right track through so intricate a
subject, and by my conviction that injury of no slight
degree may be done to the public interest by taking a
false step, and even by the publication of erroneous
opinions.

I have the honour to be, my Lord,

Your Lordship's faithful, obedient servant,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLHI. FROM LORD GRENVILLE.
Dear Sir Cjimelford House, 12th February, 1810.

I saw with the most lively satisfaction that you
had announced an intention of taking up a subject of
so much difficulty and importance as that of the present
state of the currency of the kingdom, and of the trade
in bullion. It would give me great pleasure to have an
opportunity of conversing with you on the subject at
whatever time would best suit your own convenience.
I am generally at home from twelve to two, but I could
with equal convenience fix any other hour that might
suit you better, and be less liable to interruption.

The difficulty of arriving at any precise opinion as to
the causes of the existing evil arises in great degree
from the concurrent operation of so many circumstances

2Er. 32.] COKRESPONDENCE. y

wholly unprecedented. Nothing but a well conducted
inquiry ascertaining as distinctly as may be the real
effect (as it is now practically experienced) of each of
these circumstances, separately or combined with the
others, can give one full satisfliction as to the appli-
cation of those theories, which one's general notions of
tl e subject would lead one to form upon it. But on a
general view, I am inclined to attribute the effect com-
plained of, in a very great degree, to the stoppage of
money payments at the Bank — a measure originally
adopted to meet a sudden and very urgent pressure, but,
I think, very ill calculated for any long continuance.
While the necessity of money payments then continued,
every increased demand for bullion, which either the
ordinary fluctuations of trade, or the extraordinary cir-
cumstances of these times, occasioned, was immediately
felt there, and was met (or ought to have been so) by
adequate measures to diminish the circulation of paper,
and by a corresponding issue and importation of bullion,
by a body possessed at all times of a considerable store
of that article, and having both capital and commercial
means for rapid purchases and importations.

I am far from thinking that the question admits of so
simple a solution as to be answered merely by a refer-
ence to this single principle — but I am inclined to
believe that its operation will more or less be traced
through all the complicated details in which the subject
is involved ; and I entertain sanguine hopes that, under
your conduct, the inquiry will lead to an issue satis-
factory both in the elucidation of this branch of politi-
cal science, and in the practical measures to which it
may lead.

Believe me ever, my dear Sir,

Most truly and faithfully yours,

Grenville.

WALCHEREN QUESTION. [1810.

Note hjj Mr. Horner^ dated the Zd of April, 1810.

"In the late vote on the Walcheren question f, there
were many members, I doubt not, who voted with minis-
ters, though they condemned the whole of their conduct
in that fatal expedition, from a sincere conviction of the
superior fitness and excellence of the present set of
ministers, for holding the government, in the present
circumstances, above any other set of public men.

" The vote of such men may have been given, in
consequence of their perceiving, that if the House
condemned that expedition by a vote of the majority,
the King would be compelled to change his ministers.
I have no doubt that a sufficient number of men were
influenced by this manner of considering the thing, to
give the ministers the majority they had, when added
to their crowd of corrupt, devoted, or unthinking parti-
sans. Perhaps, this is far from being the only instance
that might be mentioned, in which well-meaning and
disinterested members of parliament have been deterred
from voting in condemnation of a particular measure of
government, lest the effect of that vote should go
farther than they wished, and lead to an entire change
in the administration,

" In this manner, it would appear, that the weight and
importance which belongs to a vote of the House, upon

* After lie had ceased to keep a journal, Mr. Horner appears to Lave been
in the habit of making notes on separate slips of paper, to which he affixed a
date, usually under some general title, such as, " Pohtical Anecdotes," " Politi-
cal Philosophy," " Temper of the public Mind," &c. — Ed.

t On the 30th of March, Lord Porchoster moved a series of resolutions con-
demnin<T the conduct of ministers in the late expedition to the Scheldt. The
last of the resolutions concluded with these words : — " And that the advisers
of this ill-judged enterprise are, in the opinion of this House, deeply respon-
sible for the heavy calamities with which its failure lias been attended." On
the division, 27.5 voted for ministers, and 227 for the resolutions; giving
ministers a majority of 48. — Ed.

.T:t. 32.] WALCHEREN QUESTION. 9

what is called a ministerial question, is itself a cause of
tlie House departing, in particular instances, from its
professed and proper line of duty. And thus the power
which the House has over the crown, does, in a certain
respect, make it likely to fall into disrepute with the
people. The regular division of political reasoners and
public men into two distinct parties, in this country, has
probably led to this state of things in the House of
Commons.

" Whether such a state of things be more or less ex-
pedient, than that other, more agreeable at least to the
theory of the constitution, in which the parliament
should exercise its controlling and inquisitorial func-
tions, by adhering, as nearly as human nature will per-
mit, to the exercise of a sort of judicial opinion upon
the merits of each particular measure of government, is
a speculative question of some curiosity and difficulty.
That it is not wholly a speculative question, however,
may be seen from this, that a certain number of mem-
bers in the House of Commons at present profess to act
independently of party ; and one or two of those who
profess it, do in fact keep themselves independent. A
considerable difference has taken place in the circum-
stances, by which this question of expediency is to be
solved, since the increase of reading, and of the daily
press, has brought almost every question of government
and parliament to the bar of the people ; who will of
course pronounce upon each question separately, with-
out looking to the distant operation of a more complex
system of conduct, and may therefore come (as they
have done) to look upon parties in parliament as a jug-
gle, and parliament itself as uninfluenced in its decisions
by any regard to the real merits of the questions which
are discussed there, or to the interests of the public."

10 HOUSE OF CO^IMONS. [1810.

On the 26th of March, Sir Francis Burdett was com-
mitted by the House of Commons to the Tower for the
publication, in Cobbett's Journal, of " a libellous and
scandalous paper, reflecting upon the just rights and
privileges of this House." Sir Francis brought an action
at law against the Speaker for issuing the warrant for
his arrest and imprisonment, and another against the
Sergeant-at-arms generally, for executing the warrant.

On this subject there is the following note by Mr.
Horner, dated the 6th of May : —

" The proceedings at law on the part of Sir Francis
Burdett against the Speaker of the House of Commons
raise this question, — whether the House ought to suffer
its Speaker to appear in the court below and plead, or
to deny that its privileges shall in any manner be
examined and judged of in any court of law ; and so to
exercise its power of commitment, for breach of privi-
lege, against every person who takes any step in those
proceedings, as by intimidation to put an end to them."

" It is a subsequent question, whether the Speaker
shall plead to the jurisdiction, or shall plead the orders of
the House in lar of the action ; which does not arise,
until after the Speaker has entered an appearance.
The prior question is, whether he shall appear and
plead."

Letter CLIIT* TO DUGALD STEWART, ESQ.
My dear Sir, Lincoln's Ina, 8th May, 1810.

I have heard this morning with the highest satis-
faction and pleasure, that 3^ou have accomplished your
wish of having Brown '=' nominated to be your successor.
On every public as well as private account, this event

* Dr. Thomas Brown.

iET. 32.] CORRESPONDENCE. n

gives me the most sincere gratification. It does the cor-
poration of Edinburgh much credit, and ahiiost inspires
a hope that the University, and all the important interests
which hang upon it, may be rescued from the ruin
which so lately appeared certain. The appointment
must be felt as a vital wound by that base church party,
who under the conduct of the Dundas junto, have hith-
erto kept up so successful a contest against every person
suspected of a free spirit, or of liberal opinions; and who
must have looked upon the acquisition of the chair of
Moral Philosophy as their final triumph. I would write
to you more frequently about our little politics, if I had
any thing cheering to tell you. But I despond so disa-
greeably in my own views that I feel no disposition to
communicate my impressions. The absurdity and wick-
edness of the leaders of the democratic party in Middle-
sex have very recently brought matters to a worse
pass than ever ; in the result of which one cannot fore-
see any thing as very probable, but a new accession of
strength to the crown, and the disappearance of all
moderate notions of liberty, in a distracted but not
doubtful struggle, between popular frenzy and military
force. A faint effort you will observe in the proceedings
of the House of Lords last night, is about to be made
by the leaders of the Whig party, to regain the confi-
dence of the public, by an explicit declaration of their
views ; but I fear they are hardly prepared to go as far,
as in the present circumstances they ought, and it is
perhaps too late to recover, except by a ver}^ decisive
tone, and by a very plain line of conduct, the effects of
their blameable reserve and hesitation upon those ques-
tions of economy and reform which so much agitate the
people. Never were men treated with so much injustice
by the public as they have been, w^ith respect to their

22 CORRESPONDENCE. [1810.

administration ; but their resentment of this injustice,
at variance always with the real hberality of their inten-
tions and principles, has made them most indecisive and
inefficient as leaders of the opposition. The dangers of
the times have at length awakened them to the necessity
of taking a more marked and intelligible course ; and
this is rendered more easy indeed, by the plainness with
wdiich that small but noisy party of which Cobbett is
the organ, have avow^ed their designs. But it is setting
out with great disadvantages if, in collecting a popular
party, you must exclude those w^ho, in appearance only,
carry popular feelings to excess ; and I must confess to
you, that w^e have a still greater disadvantage against
us in this, that though our leaders in the House of
Lords entertain very enlightened and even popular
principles, they have very little of popular feelings. In
the House of Commons too, where the main fight should
be carried on, we have no leader at all. You w^ill not
wonder that, taking such a view of our situation, I
should despair. With kindest regards to Mrs. Stewart,
I am ever, dear Sir,

Most sincerely yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLIY. TO LORD HOLLAND.
Dear Lord Holland, Lincoln's inn, 9th May, 1809.

I wish to take a copy of the papers you have
sent me, for my own use in future j and then I will re-
turn them to you. I am to dine at Calcraft's on Satur-
day, and may be kept too late for the play, where I will
come to see you if I can. But it will not be in my
power to go to Holland House, for I mean to be seriously
busy for some mornings to come, in order to ease my

iEx. 32.] HOUSE OF COMMONS. I3

conscience of many a heavy load, and my table of some
papers that stare me daily in the face, to my great dis-
quiet.

I am ashamed to say that I am in a sea of difficulties
and doubts about privilege ; and what keeps me so
long in uncertainty is, the confidence with which I hear
both the opposite opinions maintained. I am much
shaken by Pigot's speech ; and though I see Lord Ers-
kine's is as much relied on by the other side, it was so
wild and foolish as to give me a still greater bias. Then
there are Eomilly and Wilson the other way, and the
latter especially has great weight with me, so much am
I the slave of authority on such occasions ; but in such
an emergency, when my oracles give discordant re-
sponses, I mean to try if I can form an opinion for
myself, provided I can get leisure.

I wish you had heard Lord Grey's short speech, as the
best specimen of his manner.

Most faithfully yours.

Era. Horner.

On the 18th of May, Mr. Davies Giddy brought up a
second report from the committee appointed to consider
the notices of action sent by Sir Francis Burdett. On
the motion that it be laid on the table, and printed, Mr.
Horner said, —

" He was surprised that the committee should have
thought it necessary to go into such details, with respect
to a right, which the House undoubtedly had exercised
from time immemorial. He did not think the commit-
tee were entitled to go into an argumentative detail
upon the subject ; and if such a report should be re-
ceived without any notice being taken of it, the foun-

VOL. II. 2

14 HOUSE OF COMMONS. [1810.

dation of the privilege might be brought into doubt,
where, otherwise, there could have been no reasonable
ground whatever of doubt on the subject. He believed
this was the first time that a committee appointed for an
inquiry into the privileges of the House had resorted to
the authority of the courts of law and of judges. He
believed it had been the constant maxim of the most
enlightened men who lived in times when the principles
of liberty were at least as well understood and acted
upon as now ; — men who had defended the liberties of
the people through the privileges of that House, — that
their privileges were not to be judged of by analogy to
common-law proceedings, nor to be founded upon the
authority of judges. But, not content with adverting
to common-law proceedings, and the authority of judges,
the committee had gone into a detailed reasoning upon
the general expediency of this privilege. This did ap-
pear to him to be going beyond their authority : the}^
should have looked at the Journals, and stated simply
in their report what was to be found there as to the pri-
vileges of the House ; they ought not, in his opinion, to
have entered upon general discussion as to the question
of utility. They would not, he believed, be borne out
in the course they had taken by the practice of the best
times. Then they said that the existence of the privi-
lege had been assented to in a conference with the
House of Lords : this did appear to him an improper
mode of supporting the privileges of the House of Com-
mons. Their dissent could not have weakened the real
foundation of these privileges."

The subject was resumed on the 23d of May ; and,
after several members had spoken, Mr. Horner rose to
move the recommittal of the Report, with a view after-
wards to move resolutions declaratory of the existence

.Ex. 32.] CORRESPONDENCE. 15

of tlio privilege to the utmost extent to which it had
been claimed. He said, —

"The more he considered the objections which he had
on a former occasion stated to the Report the stronger
they appeared to his mind. He objected to the refer-
ence to the authority of courts of law, and to the ad-
mission of the existence of the privilege on the part of
the House of Peers. He objected to the argument
founded upon the analogous proceedings of courts of
law^ The authority of the common-law courts to pro-
ceed by summary attachment was founded on immemo-
rial usage ; that of parliament could not rest on any
such foundation. He thought these matters extraneous,
and calculated only to throw a doubt upon the existence
of the privilege ; which doubt might have the most per-
nicious effect at a future period, if the time should ever
arrive when the Crown might find it convenient to join
a popular clamour against the House of Commons. All
this irrelevant matter, he thought, ought to be struck
out."

He concluded by moving, that the Report be recom-
mitted ; but his amendment was negatived, without a
division.

Letter CLV. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
My dear Murray, Lincoln's hm, 22d May, 1810.

I am not sure that you w^ll be of opinion that
the House acted right in its vote of Friday last, respect-
ing the question of privilege ; resolving, that the Speaker
should plead, with an understanding (not expressed in
the resolution) that it should be a plea in bar. I cannot
say that I am so well satisfied, as not to have something
like misgivings in my own mind, that we may have

IQ CORRESPONDENCE. [1810.

yielded up part of what I am convinced ought to be re-
tained in full possession : but the most prudent persons
think the course taken to be the right one, and I admit
that I see no other course to Avhich there are not more
conclusive objections. Those who are against the House
of Commons, in its claim of privilege, among whom I
am sorry to say are the best of our lawyers, quite con-
cur in the vote ; they think the privilege ought to be
over-ruled by a court of law, and they are glad that this
form of plea, by admitting the jurisdiction, will give the
court an opportunity of deciding against the claim.
These lawyers and the republicans are in unison about
this. The ministers, and we who concurred with them,
think the Court will respect the privilege. The more
rigid Whigs are alarmed by this very appearance of con-
cert among such parties, who, how repugnant so ever to
one another in their ultimate views, are all of them
more or less adverse to the constitutional power and
authority of the House of Commons. It is of the essence
of the republican spirit, to hate every semblance of dis-
cretionary power, and particularly the complex structure
of a mixed government, in wdiich there is a conflict of
such powers, and to insist that all authority should be
reduced to the rules of a constant law administered in a
course of judicial proceeding. The lawyers are brought
to the same conclusion by the habits of their professional
life, and resent, as a sort of reflection cast upon the per-
fection of their system, every departure from their
modes. The present ministers, who are almost all law-
yers, bred upon the lowest benches of the forum, are
guided partly (I have no doubt) by their old habitudes,
though much more by the convenience of taking that
course which shall most easily bring to an end, or seem
to bring to an end, their present difficulties. Both the

/Et. 32.] CORRESPONDENCE. X7

republicans and the lawyers appear to me wholly mis-
taken, as to what it is possible for the law, judicially ad-
ministered, to accomplish ; as well as Avhat the constitu-
tional law of this country has provided for cases like
that which has occurred. It is not in human nature
possible to frame a government without leaving a cer-
tain power, not indeed arbitrary and wholly without
rule, but discretionary, and to be exercised within cer-
tain rules, according to circumstances. The peculiar
character of the English constitution is, that that por-
tion of discretionary power is shared among the several
constituted authorities, instead of residing in one ; and
the chances of an improper exercise of it are lessened,
by the checks which are thus established. The doctrine
of the lawyers, and that of the republicans, tend to the
establishment of a simpler frame, whether of democracy
or monarchy, in which they would speedily find that
there would still be a discretionary power somewhere
lodged, and that the universal dominion of the law
would still be disputed, as the judicial law would still be
inadequate. The only plan that has yet proved success-
fid, in confining this discretionary power within proper
limits, is that system of mutual controls, which results
from the partition of this power among the several
branches of a mixed government.

My view of parliamentary privilege is this, that it is
not a law to be applied (like the rules of criminal jus-
tice) to every case that occurs, and which is brought be-
fore the court, but a discretionary power, to be exercised
or not, and to the full extent of the rule, or much short
of it, according as it shall, upon a view of all existing
circumstances and probable consequences, appear to be
useful and necessary, or otherwise, that such an inter-
position of authority and punishment should take place.

9. =S:

18 CORRESPONDENCE. [1810.

But then I have another doctrine, that this power is not
imUmited and undefined, but of limits and a definition
which may be certainly known, by consulting properly
the records of parliamentary customs and usage. I
think the House of Commons has an ancient and most
necessary criminal jurisdiction, excluding all other courts,
for the punishment of offences committed against itself
and its members as such ; and Avhoever will read the
Eolls and the Journals, in the spirit with which all pre-
cedents ought to be studied, (not to square the circum-
stances of particular cases, but to extract the principle
which is implied in all of them, the principle which was
aimed at in the precedents of good times, and which, in
those of bad times, was made the pretext of violence,)
will have no difficulty in collecting the evidence of this
right of jurisdiction, as well as its fixed and due limits.
I cannot at all approve of the doctrine, which Mr. Pon-
sonby quoted the other night, with approbation, from
Blackstone, that it would be inexpedient and hazardous
to the independence and authority of parliament to have
its privileges defined. They seem to me to be all very
plainly defined already, as much as things of that nature
can be ; and if they were not, I should think it most
wise to give them at length that definition. We have
defined prerogative, which was, perhaps, a bold experi-
ment in government ; the success of it may satisfy us
that there is no hazard in bringing privilege, if it be yet
to bring, within the bounds of legal description. But
by legal description, I do not intend a statutory enact-
ment, and still less the more narrow conception of the
law as administered in courts of justice, but in the man-
ner practised in all ages by parliament, by a resolution
of the House itself

I have no manner of doubt, that the Judges in West-

/Et. 32.] CORRESPONDENCE. 19

minster Hall '^vill recognise this privilege in the present
instance. They are bound, by the law, to recognise it ;
and unhappily the present instance of its exercise comes
from that quarter, with whose feelings they are always
found too uniformly to sympathise.

Ever yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLVI. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
Mv dear Murray Lincoln's Inn, nth June, 1810.

Before the inhabitants of Edinburgh are scat-
tered into the country, I wish very much you would
take some opportunity of sounding them upon the ques-
tion of Scotch Parliamentary Reform. The longer I
live, I become the more keen on that subject ; both be-
cause I become daily more convinced that there is no
part of the kingdom which would send more useful re-
presentatives than Scotland would, if there were a popu-
lar choice ; and because it is manifest that none of the
other great objects can be gained for Scotland, such as
jury trial, until you have more active representatives.
The measure will never be carried without a very de-
cided opinion in favour of it, indeed a strong call for it
from Scotland ; such as there seems to have been, before
the excesses of the French revolution stopped the pro-
gress of all our political improvements. I know there is
no such anxiety upon the matter at present ; but one
should like to feel the pulse, and guess, whether by ad-
ministering proper materials, the fever could once more
be brought on. ''• * ''' '•'

Yours most affectionately,

Fra. Horner.

20 CORRESPONDENCE. [1810.

Letter CLYU. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
My dear Murray, Lincoln's inn, 2Gtli June, 1810.

The Report of the BuUion Committee is not yet
out of the printer's hands ; so that those who praised it
to you were hberal enough to bestow that praise upon
credit. I can let you into the secret, however, that the
Eeport is in truth very clumsily and prolixly drawn ;
stating nothing but very old doctrines on the subject it
treats of, and stating them in a more imperfect form
than they have frequently appeared in before. It is a
motley composition by Huskisson, Thornton, and my-
self; each having written parts, which are tacked
together without any care to give them an uniform
style, or a very exact connection. One great merit
the Report, however, possesses; that it declares, in
very plain and pointed terms, both the true doctrine and
the existence of a great evil growing out of the neglect
of that doctrine. By keeping up the discussion, which
I mean to do, and by forcing it again upon the attention
of parliament, we shall in time (I trust) effect the restora-
tion of the old and only safe system.

The story you heard of Lord Erskine and the Prince
had some foundation ; but was exaggerated, and the
scene was mislaid. There was some argument between
them about privilege, at a dinner at the Foundling Hos-
pital, which was magnified by Erskine's enemies into a
sharp and angry dispute. But I understand it was at a
private dinner that the retort you allude to was made
by the Prince, who, when Erskine said the principles he
maintained were those which had seated H. R. H.'s fam-
ily on the throne, said they were principles which would
unseat any family from any throne.

.Ex. 32.] CORRESPONDENCE. 21

I have no idea that there is any serious displeasure
felt by the Prince against Erskine on this account;
though Erskine has not left it to this day for him to
prove, that rather than yield liis public opinions he is
ready to encounter that displeasure. His opinions upon
this occasion are, I think, quite erroneous; his prejudices
as a lawyer, perhaps an itch for popular flivour, perhaps
too a dislike of the House of Commons, all conspire to
lead him wronar. The House of Commons was not his

theatre of glory ; he was perpetually losing there the
fame he won in Westminster Hall.

I am more surprised at Romilly having erred, as I can-
not but think he has done ; and I regard it as a striking
proof, how difficult it is for a man, whose mind is trained
in the course of administering justice, especially if he
be a lover of liberty, to allow the propriety or necessity
of any thing like discretionary power being left any-
where. Both the habits of a lawyer's mind, and the
sentiments which compose one's love of liberty, are in
favour of the simpler system of constant and known
rules and forms for every case that occurs ; and the true
theory of freedom is, unquestionably, to carry that prin-
ciple as far as possible. For my part, this question came
upon me by surprise : I hesitated a good deal, before I
acquiesced in the doctrine of privilege, to the extent to
which I would now be prepared to state it ; but I am
satisfied now, after as accurate a view as I can take of
what is the real necessity, that it is necessary for the
efficient existence of the Commons' House, that they
should be entrusted with the discretionary privilege of
punishing, by commitment, those who either obstruct or
libel them.

I regret deeply that Romilly is on the other side of
this great question ; it weakens both the claim of privi-

22 CORRESPONDENCE. [1810.

lege and his reputation that they are not found together.
You need not, however, be under any apprehension,
that he does not stand well with our party : no lawyer
ever stood hisrher than he does in the House of Com-
mons, or more thoroughly possessed the confidence of
his party.

What a curious scene was exhibited last week in this
city ; and what would John Wilkes or Cardinal de Retz
have said, to such a false step as Burdett has made, in
failing to appear in the jDrocession prepared for hiin.
He has acted in that a more temperate and peaceable part,
than I had previously given him credit for; but it is mani-
fest, that his conduct is inconsistent with itself, that all he
had done before required him to go on, and that he had
advanced too far in the popular race to turn back. His
popularity is accordingly very much impaired. The
agitators and desperate spirits have had it proved to
them, that he is not a leader for them, and has not
mettle enough ; and the good-hearted mob have found,
to their disappointment, that whether it be want of
courage, or too good a taste, he ^\i\\ not always enter
into all their noise. The more intelligent of his party
must be satisfied, that he is deficient in resolution, and
cannot always be depended on. His powers of doing
mischief are diminished, therefore, if he ever had any
mischievous designs, which I do not believe ; and if the
public were once satisfied that he is no longer popular
with the multitude, and thereby formidable, I think he
has qualities that would enable him, in his way, to do
good occasionally, and to assist other public men in
doing good in theirs. Vain he is, no doubt, and always
acting upon the suggestions of others, and those often
inferior to himself; but he has a prompt indignation
against injustice and oppression, one of the best elements

Mr. 32.] CORRESPONDENCE. 23

of the passion for liberty ; and by great and fortunate
labour he has acquired a talent for speaking in public.
I believe he loves his country and the ancient institu-
tions. I think, too, he has considerable candour in judg-
ing of the talents as well as motives of other men ; but
there have been some symptoms of a very pitiful jealousy,
towards those who have interfered with him in his own
line of Westminster popularity. He has rendered him-
self a remarkable man, though I fear he is not likely to
do any great or lasting service to the public : his late
transactions have extended his popularity beyond the
capital, to which it was confined before ; but in the end
they ho.ve lessened it in the capital.

I have been led, without thinking, to write a great
deal more about these matters than I intended when I
sat down : they are more the notions which have pre-
sented themselves in writing than the result of much
reflection, so I beg you will help me to make them more
correct, if you think me wrong.

I am glad you saw so much of Mr. Wilson ;* because
you would then see, for yourself, that the high opinion I
have of his sense is not exaggerated. He has one of the
most clear-sighted intellects I ever knew, and certainly
the most free and erect one ; he has neither prejudice,
nor error, nor levity. He always sees things in their
just proportions j and he always arrives at the right con-
clusion by the shortest way. Since the illness last year,
which induced him to give up his profession, and in
a great measure detached him from the world, he has
seemed to me a still more instructive and interesting
person to converse with than he was before : he is a
mere spectator, but with as active a spirit of curiosity
and observation as if he expected to remain long among

* Mr. George Wilson. See note, vol. i. p. 196.

24 CORRESPONDENCE. [1810.

US, though he is, in a manner, separated already from us
and almost from life. He has reduced to practice the
purest and most fearless philosophy, and reaps the best
fruits of it in the most entire tranquillity of mind, and
all the pleasures of benevolence and enhghtened specu-
lation.

Most sincerely yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLVIII. TO FRANCIS JEFFREY, ESQ.
My dear Jeffrey, Lincoln's inn, 16th July, 1810.

I am just returned to town, after an absence of
about ten days. The Bullion Keport, I am rather sur-
prised to find, is not yet delivered from the printers ; I
revised the proof sheets before I left town. I would
rather do something for you myself, if you will let me
know the utmost time you can allow me ; rather, I
mean, than trust that subject in the hands of any of
your mercenary troops, one of whom was guilty of de-
plorable heresies in the account of a book by one Smith.
I will do a short article for yoa this time, to do justice
to Mr. Eicardo and Mr. Mushet, who called the public
attention to this very important subject at the end of
last year.

Will you allow me once again to protest against your
suffering so much party politics in the Edinburgh Re-
view? You knew my sentiments on that point long
ago ; nor would I now obtrude them, if I had not been
led to feel with increased weight the justness of all my
former objections, by the manner in which the last num-
ber has been received. I am quite sure the character
and efficient usefulness of the work is very considerably
impaired ; and it appears to me to be of great public im-

^T. 32.] CORRESPONDENCE. 25

portance, that that injury should be retrieved as speedily
as possible. The power of the Review over the public
mind, which was once so great, and is still very consid-
erable, depended very much upon that general tone of
politics, which, when it was the transcript of your senti-
ments, it almost uniformly preserved. But the turn it
has taken of late, by descending to questions between
ministry and opposition, and even to individual crimi-
nation, has lowered its name, and given a prejudice
against all its opinions and reasonings, even upon other
occasions. Some time before I left town, I heard a long
conversation about the Review between Lord Holland,
Tierney, and Allen, in which they all expressed the same
opinion which I have now taken the liberty of repre-
senting to you; and I think you ought to give the
more weight to a sentiment in which so many persons
agreed, who would naturally feel very differently about
the Review. You would hardly have expected that
Tierney would refuse any party aid from the press ; and,
in truth, I believe his opinion upon the subject was
taken up in this light, that a more powerfid aid was
given by the Edinburgh Review to the Whig party,
composed as it is at present, and still more to the ques-
tions and principles to which that party is pledged,
while the work preserved its independent judicial air of
authority, than it can furnish by all its activity and
skill as a partisan. I meant to have told you of this
conversation before, which impressed me very strongly
at the time, as conclusive evidence of the effect which
the recent conduct of the Review had produced upon
its own reputation. But I felt some reluctance in urg-
ing a topic which might be a disagreeable one to you,
on account of the difficulty and delicacy you might

VOL. II 3

26 CORRESPONDENCE. [1810.

feel in acting upon my view of the matter, even if you
agreed with me. Brougham has been too useful and
powerful an ally, to make it easy for you to point out
any change you might wish for ; but when I recollect
the many admirable articles he formerly gave you upon
more general subjects, I own that I regret very much
that he should misplace his compositions so much, as to
print in the Review what he ought to speak in the
House of Commons.

I wish very much that Brougham and I were upon
such a footing that I could state these things to himself^
but that has been long otherwise : a consideration which
more than any other has made me backward in stating
them to you. But I have been latterly so much urged
by other persons to use my influence with you, that I
have been induced to make that effort upon this occa-
sion.

I must not conclude mthout thanking you very grate-
fully for the pleasure I received in reading your ex-
tracts from Crabbe's Borough ; some of which, particu-
larly the Convict's Dream, leave far behind all that any
other living poet has written. Does not your critique,
in some of its expressions and illustrations, break in a
little upon the doctrines which you urged against Words-
worth? In the general principles, I am satisfied, 3'ou
are consistent ; and as far as I am capable of judging of
such matters, I think you right ; but a captious person
mio-ht set you in some sentences against yourself You
must some day or other bring your thoughts on the phi-
losophy of poetry and poetic expression into the form of
a systematic essay ; which I shall insist upon your pol-
ishing with much care. That, and a little treatise on
the ethics of common life, and the ways and means of

^T. 32.] CORRESPONDENCE. 27

ordinary happiness, are the works which I bespeak from
you for after-times.

Believe me always affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLVIIL* TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.

My dear Murray, London, iTth July, isio.

I delayed saying any thing to you about our
autumn plans, until the Judges had fixed the days of
our Circuit, that I might know how much time we had
to reckon* upon. What I should most wish for, is to
have a full week at some one place, where the walks
and rides are fine, that we might pass such another time
as at Crickhowel. I am but a torpid animal, when
locked up in a carriage, and undergo so much violent
locomotion in the course of the year, that repose is what
I like best. I believe in this we feel alike. I should like
nothing better than going for the whole of that month
to some pretty neighbourhood in Wales, near the sea
and the mountains, and taking a few books with us.

I believe the best tract that has been published on
the question of privilege, is Charles Wynne's ; as much
as I read of it seemed to me perspicuous and moderate.
I have read no others. You will find me go great lengths
for the privileges of the House of Commons, and parti-
cularly in that branch of them which has been lately
called into question. The case came upon me by sur-
prise, and I vacillated for a day or two, chiefly I beheve
from the weight of Romilly's authority, whose pure love
of liberty I am thoroughly convinced of But I fixed
at last very hard, and this very privilege, which I admit
to be in the exercise of an arbitrary power, appears to
me altogether essential for the preservation of a demo-

28 CORRESPONDENCE. [1810.

cratic constitution. I must reserve till we meet, my
arguments in support of this doctrine. In the mean-
while, I shall only say, that I think it rests both upon
principle and upon precedents well understood. For in
this, as in the law, there are precedents of all sorts ; and
if the argument were built upon them only, the most
opposite conclusions might be presented in almost equal
strength. The law of parliament, however, like the
common law, consists not of cases, but of principles. As
applied to the common law, this was a maxim for ever
in the mouth of Lord Mansfield, who borrowed, I think,
his usual form of expressing it from one of the best
treatises that I know upon the law of parliament, the
report from a committee of the House of Lords upon
the great case of Ashby and White, which you will find
in the journals of 1704, and in the third volume of
Hatsell. Lord Holt is said to have drawn that paper.
"The law of England, (it is there said, I think very phi-
losophically,) is not confined to particular precedents
and cases, but consists in the reason of them, which is
much more extensive than the circumstance of this or
that case." In the spirit of this maxim, the parliamen-
tary precedents ought to be read in the Rolls and the
Journals, extracting the principle involved in all of them,
as being that which was aimed at in the precedents of
good times, and which in bad times was used as the pre-
text. Like all discretionary power, it has been exercised
more or less honestly at different periods, and more or
less knowingly. For it is indispensable, in my view of
this privilege, to remember that it is a branch of execu-
tive discretion ; and is by no means to be regarded in
the hght of a branch of criminal judicature, where
every case of offence that occurs must be tried. Each
case of privilege, on the contrary, presents a question of

^T. 32.] CORRESPONDENCE. 29

expediency, liow far upon a view of all actual circum-
stances and probable consequences it is useful to make
such an interposition of authority. There is a very fine
passage, which you must remember, in Hume's history
of Charles the First, in which he describes the novelty
and boldness of the experiment which was made by the
Patriots of the Long Parliament, when they established
what he calls the noble but dangerous principle of ad-
hering strictly to law, and removed, (as he represents it
I think incorrectly,) all arbitrary power from the frame
of our government. In the present question of privilege,
we have chiefly to consider, whether it be possible to
form a government, in which the dominion of the law
shall be universal, and in which there shall be no rem-
nant, in any part of the constitution, of a discretionary
will. I confess it seems to me impracticable; though
both lawyers and men of a republican cast of opinion,
proceed without always declaring it, upon that supposi-
tion : — the republican, as disliking all arbitrary will, and
all complexity in the structure of government, the law-
yer, from a similar love of simplicity in the distribution
of authorities, and from an implicit confidence in the
sufficiency and perfection of the modes and instruments
of judicial procedure. To me, however, it seems, that
all the argmuents that are ever stated in fiivour of a
mixed government resolve into a confession, that some
power must be left to the exercise of a sound discretion,
and that the only security for a permanent soundness of
discretion is to be found in the partition of that power,
and the check which results from mutual control. But
I find myself getting much deeper into the subject than
I had intended, perhaps you will think already out of
my depth.

I am delighted with Mr. Stewart's new book ; with

30 CORRESPONDENCE. [1810.

the style and the matter of it ; delighted with it all.
The composition is softer and more flowing than in his
former writings, and has less of that emphasis and strain
which gives a hardness to some parts of the Philosophy
of the Mind. He is particularly satisfactory to me, in
what he states with respect to Berkeley's speculations
and those of Home Tooke.

Ever, my dear Murray,

Affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

P. S. Use all your influence with Jeffrey and with
Brougham to keep out of the Edinburgh Review those
party declamations, which are destroying its influence
with the public. Let them leave the last word to the
Quarterly Review, and break off from this useless war-
fare at once.

Letter CLIX. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
Mv dear MurraV Salisbury, 7th August, 1810.

It was quite a pleasure to me to receive a letter
from you again. I could not help fancying sometimes
you might be unwell ; though, upon the whole, I satis-
fied myself that you must be busy.

I will certainly give you the meeting in Dublin, and
on the earliest day on which I can reach it. I must of
course remain till the Somerset Assizes are almost over,
which will not be till Friday the 31st instant. I calcu-
late that if I am not disappointed in places, and have an
ordinary passage, I may land at Dublin early in the
morning of the 4th. You cannot rely upon me however
for that day.

If you should come there sooner, I hope you will see

iEx. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. 31

as much as you cau, tliat wc may bo off for Killarney
without delay ; which I agree with you ought to be our
chief object. I have a great curiosity to see something
of an Irish court of justice. The Lawyers will probably
be upon their circuits at that time ; but you may as well
ask if the Recorder's Court at Dublin has any sittings.
Most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Lktter CLX. to his MOTHER.
Mv dear Mother Klllamey, IStli September, 1810.

We came here last night, having made two days
of it from Limerick, and rather tiresome ones ; I had
the pleasure, upon my arrival, to find your letter of the
6th instant, which had been forwarded to me from
Dublin, together with one from "Warwick.

I hope you got the note from Dublin; which I wrote
immediately after I landed, that you might be relieved
from your fears about the deep sea. I was very lucky
in being able to reach it, the very day we had fixed as
the first that we had a chance of meeting ; by travelling
two nights in the mail, and being fortunate enough to
get on without delay either at Birmingham or Shrews-
bury ; at both which places I changed coaches. I left
Bristol on Monday evening at seven, and was at Holy-
head on Wednesday about two in the afternoon. The
packet sailed about an hour afterwards ; but we were
three and twenty hours upon the passage, and near
twenty of those were to me hours of mortal sickness : I
thought of poor Jonah in the whale's belly, and fancied
myself in as bad a plight, as I lay in my crib with
nothing to relieve me in my nausea, but the sighs of
sympathising Welsh, Irish, and Scotch around me, men,

32 CORRESPONDENCE. [1810.

women, and children. I had just retired to my berth,
and was in my first pangs, when I heard the loud, good-
natured, vulgar voice of a raw-boned Scotch lad, asking
the cabin-boy, for information only, if " ony body was
seek yet ? " I cannot say that I had not some satisfac-
tion for a moment, when I heard this bumpkin, about an
hour afterwards, expressing himself in very different
tones, as if he was about to render up his very entrails.
For all this, however, I was fully compensated by the
view of the bay of Dublin, as we sailed into it ; it is
very deep and broad, the coast all round appears lined
with woods, great houses or villages, and the Wicklow
mountains, which rise on the left hand, have quite a
Highland form and character.

We spent the best part of two days in Dublin. It is
rather a handsome town; the quay along the Liflfey,
with' the bridges one after another, four or five of them,
gives a fine town view ; and there is one point, where
several public buildings are assembled together, the Col-
lege, the Parliament House, and some others, to which I
should be at a loss to say what there is in London that
is equal ; Whitehall I think is not. The public offices
in Dublin are all very ornamental buildings; the Cus-
tom House is most talked of, but I would praise the Par-
Hament House, now the Bank, more highly. We went
a few miles out of Dublin, to see the Phoenix Park, and
a gentleman's seat called Luttrel's Town; the last is
always recommended to strangers, but is hardly worth
their while ; we were much more pleased with the
grounds of the Duke of Leinster, a little farther on, and
with the situation of the village of Leixlip.

From Dublin we went to Limerick by the mail-coach;
through a tame country, level the greater part of the
way, all (except where there is bog) under cultivation,

^T. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. 33

and passing (in the county of Tippcrary particularly)
some wild villages. The cultivation of every thing but
potatoes seemed to be sorry ; but its extent is so great,
as to give the idea of an immense produce, even if we
did not see the multitudes who crowd the whole coun-
try. All that I had heard in description of the num-
bers of the Irish, and of their dirt, rags, and beggary,
seems to me now to have been short of the truth. The
streets of Limerick were like a great fair; though it
was not even market day ; and this from morning to
night. It seemed as if every house had poured out its
inhabitants; yet every cellar we looked into seemed
full. It was more or less the same in all the towns and
villages we came through ; and we never went a mile
upon the highway, without seeing a great many persons.
None of them seem to have any thing to do ; through
all that we should call the workino; hours of the dav, we
saw large lasses, and lads six feet high, lounging round
the cabin doors. It is literally true, that the only ap-
pearance of industry we saw, was in the number of
schools that we observed on this side of Limerick;
schools for the ragged children of those same cabins :
and we two or three times passed a little swarm of them
sitting on the outside, to all appearance because it was
quite full of them within, reading, writing, and cipher-
ing. Murray got into conversation with one of the
schoolmasters, in a village where there was not a hovel
better than a hog-sty, who was a young man, and who
told him that Telemachus was one of the books he read
with the children. All this, when one sees the idleness
of the people and the backwardness of the country, is a
little puzzling. With this idleness, and dirt, and naked-
ness, they look a much happier people than I have seen
in any part of England or Scotland ; the English peasant

34 CORRESPONDENCE. [1810.

is a torjDid animal, and the Scotch one eaten with care,
compared with the light-hearted cheerful people of this
country. They seem for ever talking, and in a high tide
of spirits ; their volubility is somewhat distressing, and
their language is more full of submission than is pleasant,
because it reminds one how they have been taught it
by oppression ; but among themselves, they seem to
have a great deal of merriment and enjoyment. They
have all of them a real share of sharp drollery and
imagery ; enough to mark them as entirely a different
race of peojple from those on our side of the Channel.
I have seen but very little in the course of these few
days ; but all this, I think, I have observed distinctly.
It is very likely they have not the same steadiness of
understanding, which makes the Englishman always a
master of his own particular profession, and which makes
the Scotchman (who seldom knows one profession tho-
roughly) ready to turn his hand to almost any one, and
to get through it well enough to thrive by it ; but the
Irish have a quickness, readiness, and sharpness, which
the others seldom possess.

Nothing has surprised me so much in Ireland as the
excellence of the roads; all the way from Dublin, even
into this unfrequented country, they are most admirable,
and must have been made at a great expense. Prob-
ably, there has been particular attention paid to this
since the rebellion, from political considerations ; it is a
care well bestowed, and must assist very rapidly the
civilisation of the country. We came from Limerick by
Adair, Newbridge, Glyn, Tarbet, Listowel, and Tralee.
The views we had of the Shannon going down to Glyn,
and of the mountains at Tralee, were very fine. We
have spent this day upon the lower and middle lakes
here ; I must write another letter about this place : we

Mt. 33.] . CORRESPONDENCE. 35

have the best of it yet to see, but I would say already,
that it exceeds greatly all the scenery with which I
have been hitherto acquainted.

With kindest love to my father and my sisters,
I am, my dear mother.

Most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLX * TO THE REV. T. R. MALTHUS.
Mv dear Mai thus Killarney, IStli September, 1810.

I received last night your letter of the 7th in-
stant, in which you so very kindly invite me to spend
some time with you at Haileybury ; as soon after my
return as I have some days of leisure, it will afford me
a real enjoyment, to have an opportunity of passing
some days with you in the country.

I am glad you are satisfied with the Bullion Report,
so far as it goes. There are still in the Theory of the
subject some points which give me difficulty, particu-
larly in what relates to exchange, and which I should
like to try if they could be cleared up by a little more
thinking about them. In the Report, of course, we give
the slip to all such problems, as, for the useful and
necessary purposes of the practical conclusion, there is
a plain road upon the principles that have been long
well settled. As it is, the Report has more the air of a
dissertation than was desirable ; and any savour of novel
speculation, how just soever it might have been, would
have tainted it to all true born Englishmen. All the
hopes I have of immediate success with the House of
Commons, and those are but very faint, are built upon
what seems to be our strong-hold of former experience
and former doctrines, in opposition to what we have

36 CORRESPONDENCE. [1810

called tlie Theory of the Bank Directors. It will be
very pleasant to prevail by raising that cry. I have no
doubt that at no distant time, the evils, proceeding from
the want of responsibility in the Bank, will get to such
a pitch, as to force upon parliament a recurrence to the
old systems. I am only afraid that some mischief may
be done, in the mean time, by interfering unwisely with
the country banks, and with that diffused and subdivided
credit, afforded by their means, to the enterprises of small
capitalists in remote parts of the country. I have had
no time to make political inquiries of any sort in this
country ; but the little I have learned about the state
of currency and credit at Dublin for the last few
months, makes me expect to receive an ample com-
mentary from that quarter, upon all the doctrines of
our Report. I beg you will make my kindest respects
to Mrs. Malthus, and believe me

Ever most sincerely yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLX.« TO THE DUKE OF SOMERSET.
Mv dear Lord Lincoln's inn, 2cl November, 1810.

I was too short a time in Ireland to learn much
more about the state of the lower orders in that country,
than that it is very different from the condition of the
people in either of the other two kingdoms, and that it
is a subject of great curiosity, and which strongly invites
speculation. Their immense numbers, their rags and
dirt, excel in reality all the descriptions which I formerly
believed to be exaggerated ; and so does their gaiety of
manner, their cheerfulness in the midst of all this show
of indigence and misery, and their education. The
only appearance of industry I saw was in the village

^T. 32.] CORRESPONDENCE. 31^

schools, which seemed so many bee-hives in swarm-
ing time ', I was only in the Catholic part of Ireland,
and have not quite information enough to conclude what
I rather presume to be true, that it is to the zeal in-
spired by religious persecution that this singular effect
is to be ascribed. The instance would for the present
appear to be one on their side of the argument, who
deny the advantages of education ; but the good fruits,
I am convinced, will be reaped in due season. It was
during the persecution of the Presbyterians in Scotland,
that their system of parish education was founded and
organized, and the lower orders of that country re-
mained for many years after the union in a state of
wretched beggary, idleness, and insubordination. Fletcher
of Salton's description of them would pass for too high
colouring in describing the present Irish. They are,
generally speaking, unemployed and lawless ; and the
greatest political evil of Ireland is their excessive num-
ber. Nothing seems likely to remedy this but that
change in the occupation of landed property by the
breaking down of vast territories held by Absentees into
smaller estates, and the reverse process of converting'
the present fractions of leasehold into large farms, which
will take place in the natural progress of wealth. It is
a revolution which will cause some violent struggles, on
the part of the displaced tenantry 5 and there have
been already some proofs of the change having com-
menced, and of the struggles which attend it. This
progress of agriculture in Ireland will be accelerated, I
expect, by two circumstances, which may be regarded
as accidental. The peculiar circumstances of England
in respect of population and wealth give Ireland a near
and vast market for grain ; and Sir John Newport's Act
has rendered the trade quite free. The other circum-

VOL. II. 4

38 CORRESPONDENCE. [1810.

stance is, that the rebeUion of 1798 has led both govern-
ment and the country gentlemen of Ireland to pay an
extraordinary attention to the improvement of their
roads, which are better in that country and more nume-
rous, than in almost any other.

The late unexpected turn of things here will probably
bring your Grace sooner to town than you intended. I
have not heard how the King is to-day, but I have good
reason to believe that he was worse yesterday than was
publicly given out. The pains taken at Windsor to con-
ceal the real extent of his illness, only make one believe
it to be much more severe and serious.

Believe me, my dear Lord,

Most faithfully yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLXI. TO DUGALD STEWART, ESQ.
My dear Sir Lincoln's Inn, 16th November, 1810,

I was much chagrined, upon my coming to Lon-
don, to find that no copy of the Bullion Report had
been sent to you from the Vote Office, though I wrote
from the circuit expressly to desire it, and I had taken
for granted that it had been sent. It is now out of
print ; but there is a copy which I have lent to a gen-
tleman who is now in Yorkshire, and which, as soon as
I can recover it, I will send to you ; if I should not be
fortunate enough to procure another sooner. I hope
you have got Huskisson's tract, and pray let me know
if you have Mr. Blake's which is very goodj the subject
has produced much discussion in England, and I have
no doubt will, within a year or two, be practically settled
agreeably to our views. Every day, I hear of converts.
You could not do me a greater favour, than by commu-

,Et. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. 39

nicatiiig to me what particular points there are in the
doctrine stated by the committee, on which you either
entertain a different opinion, or feel difficulties ; for
myself I will own, that there are a few instances, in
which I think the argument has not yet been placed
accurately upon the right grounds, as there are some in
which I contented myself (in drawing my part of the
Report) with assuming what might have been deduced
from principles, but not without an air of more theory
and general speculation than I thought it prudent (on ac-
count of my own situation) that the Report should bear.
I suppose it is with respect to the wages of labour, and
the pay of the army and navy, that you wish we had
spoken out more fully, and followed out the conse-
quences of our reasoning. I think the time will come
when all those consequences ought to be explained
without reserve ; but in first breaking the subject,
against the prejudices of a large portion of the English
public, and against the arts of misrepresentation, which
Government and the Bank were sure to put in practice,
it seemed more advisable to rest the argument upon
those grounds with which it was most difficult to mix
any topics of declamation ; and the more so, as a single
hint, with respect to those other momentous conse-
quences of a depreciated currency, is more than suffi-
cient for all who are already acquainted with the
principles of such subjects.

I Avas in the minority last night against the renewed
adjournment.* The difference among us upon that
motion, though it may be represented as party disunion,
will have no bad consequences ; I rather think the con-
trary. The constitutional principle is saved by so strong

* An adjournment of the House for a fortnight Tvas proposed by the Govern-
ment, on account of the King's illness. — Ed.

40 CORRESPONDENCE. [1810.

a protest ; and the conduct of the rest of the Opposition
secures the party from any charge of indelicacy towards
the King, or undue eagerness to make the most of the
present crisis.

The account of the King is, that he had some fever
again yesterday, that he has had some sleep in the night,
and that his fever is again a little abated. I beg to be
most kindly remembered to Mrs. Stewart,
And am, my dear Sir,

Most truly yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLXII. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
Mv dear MurraV Lincoln's Lm, 29t]i Nov. 1810.

It was very negligent in me not to satisfy you
about my health, which is now perfectly good.

Huskisson's pamphlet is excellent. There are still
some points in the theory of this subject not quite
cleared up ; and I can put my finger now on one or two
parts of the Bullion Keport, from which I dissent. There
is one especially, from which indeed I dissented at the
time I drew up the Report, but adopted it as the sense
of the majority of the committee, and particularly Hus-
kisson, Thornton, and Baring ; which is this, that the
whole depression of the exchange was originally occa-
sioned by the state of trade, and that the operation of
the excessive and depreciated currency was to prevent
its restoration. This way of stating it gives a confusion
to the reasoning, and involves, I am satisfied, an error in
principle ; inconsistent, indeed, with the very foundation
of the argument. Depreciation must produce, under all
circumstances, its appropriate and proportionate effect
upon the foreign exchanges; and produces that effect

^T. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. 41

independently, though it may be combined in the result
with the effect produced upon the balance of payments
by political or commercial circumstances. It may, in
some instances, require a good deal of address to sepa-
rate, in a particular instance of the exchange with a
foreign country, those other circumstances, the effect of
which is mixed with that of depreciation ; and in some
instances, from our imperfect knowledge of the state of
the currency of the other country, with which our ex-
change is stated, the case may stand for a while unsolved,
and apparently as an objection, which it is not in reality,
to the general conclusion.

I have not read the whole of Blake's pamphlet ; it
seemed to me very perspicuous and satisfactory : I shall
read it in a day or two. I had dismissed the subject
from my mind as soon as the Report was presented, but
am now deep in it again. The discussion, which is in
great activity in London, will do much good ; and enable
us to set a good many questions at rest. You cannot do
me a greater favour, than by stating to me any doubts
or difficulties that you feel upon any part of the
question. Bosanquet's dexterous but somewhat unfair
pamphlet has given me a good deal of exercise in this
way : he leaves the main argument quite untouched,
when his misapprehensions of the facts are explained.

The recommendation in p. 33 of the Report, that the
Bank of England should be permitted to issue notes
under 5/. for some little time after the resumption of
payments in specie, is founded upon this principle, that
the former policy of the legislature ought to be resorted
to, by prohibiting their issue of notes under 5/. The
reason upon which that rests is, that it is important to
have a certain proportion of specie in actual circulation,

in order to prevent those sudden panics respecting the
4*

^2 CORRESPONDENCE. [1810.

credit of paper among the common people, which are
always attended with inconvenience. Smith's principle
is, that the paper circulation should be confined as much
as possible to the transactions among the dealers, and
that there should be as much specie as possible for the
transactions between the dealers and the consumers. If
I recollect right, he grounds this principally upon the
inconveniences which the consumers must suffer when
there is any sudden failure of credit, which diminishes
the value, or impedes the circulation, of the smaller
paper. There is another thing to be taken into account,
which I have not yet considered so fully as to have a
clear view of it : I suspect, however, that convertibility
alone of all paper into specie, without an actual inter-
change of a certain portion of specie circulating along
with the paper, is not sufficient to secure the permanent
value of the paper. The American states have nothing
but paper in common circulation ; it is all convertible
by law into specie, but coin is seldom if ever seen : I
suspect that they have an excess of this paper, and that
its relative value is lower than it would have been if
there had been always an interchange of specie. But,
as I have already said, this is a part of the subject which
I have not sufficiently examined. I am very anxious to
get at the truth on every point of it ; and I really think
I have no prepossessions about it, nor have laid up any
opinion which I am not ready to examine and to dismiss,
if it will not stand the test. You know my declared
hostility to all argument and controversy in conver-
sation, but I delight to have materials presented to me
for self examination upon my opinions.

I am inclined to think that the King, if he does not
die from bodily weakness, will recover from his present
madness ; but probably not for several weeks. The

2Et. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. 43

question for the parliament seems to be, liow long can
the government go on -without the monarchy ; in this
respect, the royalists are playing rather a hazardous
game ; and as I am all for the monarchy, I wish the
country and the parliament were aware of this danger.
In a mere party point of view, it is much wiser to let
the ministers have all the time they wish to gain ; for
nothing is more to be dreaded, in the present circum-
stances of the country, than a short interval of a new
administration, under a precarious regency.

Ever most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLXIII. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.

My dear Murray, ^^^^^ December, 1810.

Percival wrote to the Prince yesterday, an-
nouncing his plan of a limited regency, exactly like
that of 1789 ; except that he is to be allowed to confer
peerages for signal military or naval services, and that
the duration of the regency, so limited, is fixed for a
year, and six weeks after the commencement of the
next session of parliament ; like the restriction upon
the distilleries. The Prince's answer was, in substance,
this ; that this communication was made to him, not
like that of Mr. Pitt after the two Houses had passed
certain resolutions, upon which it was no longer fit for
him to animadvert ; but before such resolutions were
proposed to parliament, which he could not anticipate
that parliament would now agree to ; if they should be
passed, he would then refer to his letter of 1789, for the
sentiments and principles which he still retains.

After he had sent this answer, he summoned, in the
evening, all his brothers and the Duke of Gloucester ;

44 SPEECH ON REGENCY QUESTION. [1810.

and stated to tliem what had passed. They drew up a
letter to Percival, which they all signed, protesting
against a restricted regency. This is something like
business.

Yours ever affectionately,

Fra. Hoener.

Parliament stood prorogued to the 1st of November,
but had not been summoned to meet " for the despatch
of business ; " and as the commission, which had been
prepared for a further prorogation to the 29th, could
not receive the King's signature, by reason of his Ma-
jesty's illness, both Houses met on the 1st. On the pro-
position of Ministers, an adjournment for a fortnight was
agreed to ; on the 15th, another adjournment to the
29th took place, and a third on that day to the 13th of
December ; the alleged uncertain state of the king's
health forming the ground for these proceedings, and the
consequent postponement of the imj)ortant measure of
appointing a Eegent.

On the 20th of December, the House of Commons re-
solved itself into a committee of the whole House, to
take into consideration the state of the nation, in con-
sequence of the mental derangement of the King.
Ministers proposed the appointment of the Prince of
Wales as Regent, and that the appointment should be
made by a Bill. Mr. Ponsonby, the leader of the Op-
position, moved an amendment, that an Address should
be presented to his Royal Highness, praying that he
would assume and exercise the sovereign authority,
during the continuance of the king's indisposition, under
the title of Regent.

A long and interesting debate ensued, in which Mr.

^T. 33.] SPEECH^ ON REGENCY QUESTION. 45

Horner spoke at some length, strongly urging the adop-
tion of the latter course of procedure, as more consonant
with the principles and maxims of the constitution.
That his speech made a great impression, appears not
only from the remarks made upon it in the House itself,
but from the following letter, which he received from
Mr. Cobbett, who, at that time, published the most ac-
curate reports of the debates in parliament : —

gjp Newgate * 30th December, 1810.

From what I have heard from several gentlemen,
and especially from Lord Folkestone, I must believe that
your speech upon the Kegency question was one of
the most important of the whole ; and it is with great
mortification that I perceive that my reporter has imi-
tated those of the newspapers in giving you about a
dozen or twenty lines. I did not know this till yester-
day, when I had to review the matter prepared for the
first part of the debates of this session ; if I had sooner
perceived it, I should sooner have made an application
to you, to request you to have the goodness to write
out, from your notes or recollection, the substance, at
least, of what you delivered upon that occasion ; for, I
should be guilty of shameful partiality were I to neglect
any thing in my power to give your speech its proper
space in these debates. But I should inform you, that it
was not till the debate, in which your speech would have
been, was actually going to the press, that I discovered
the omission ; whence you will perceive the necessity of
my having any report of it, that you may be pleased to
furnish me with, as soon as possible.

* Mr. Cobbett was tben undergoing imprisonment for a political libel. The
Mr. Budd he mentions was his publisher. — Ed.

46 SPEECH ON REGENCY QUESTION. [1810.

Mr. Biidd, who is the bearer of this, will bring me
your answer ; and if he should not find you at home, I
beg the favour of an answer by letter, as soon as possi-
ble, seeing that the press is now waiting.

I am, Sir, your most obedient, &c.

W. COBBETT.

To this letter Mr. Horner sent the following answer, a
copy of which is written on the back of Mr. Cobbett's
letter : —

gjv. Lincoln's Inn, 30tli December, 1810.

- I owe you my best thanks for your obliging at-
tention, in giving me an opportunity to insert in your
Reports a note of what I said the other night.

But I am unable to avail myself of it ; as my argu-
ments turned chiefly on what had been urged by others
in the course of the debate, I could hardly bring the
different topics to my recollection, Avithout taking more
time to do it than you can spare me.
I have the honour to be, Sir,

Your obedient humble servant,

Fra. Horner.

On receiving this answer, Mr. Cobbett sent a second
letter, as follows : —

gjj. Newgate, 31st December, 1810.

Upon consulting with my printer, I find, that, if
we wait till the 10th of January for your speech, it will
not do us much injury. If, therefore, you will let me
have it by that time, I will wait for it, being extremely
anxious that my Debates should not appear without it.

iEx. 33.] CORRESrONDENCE. ^^

Your answer, left with Buddj or sent here, will very
much oblige

Your obedient servant,

W. COBBETT.

On the back of this letter, there is the following
memorandum in Mr. Horner's handwriting : —

" olst Dec. Said to Budd, I should send him a note."

I have given the report of Mr. Horner's speech on
this great constitutional question, in full, in the Appen-
dix. It is the only one of his speeches in jD^^liament
that he corrected, as far as I am aware, except a short
one on the Scotch Judicature Bill in 1815. Mr. Cobbett
says that his reporter had given " about a dozen or
twenty lines " to the speech ; it is evident, therefore,
both from the length and the style of the report, that Mr.
Horner must have written as full an account of what he
had said as he could recollect, after an interval of a fort-
night from the day of the debate.

Letter CLXIV. TO FRANCIS JEFFREY, ESQ.
My dear Jeffrey, Lincoln's inn, 18tb January, 1811.

I received Malthus's manuscript from you, and
have since transmitted it to him, with such remarks as
occurred to me in perusing it.

The Quarterly Keview was sure to be right about de-
preciation ; being under the command of Canning, who
is under the command of Huskisson. I have heard it is
George Ellis, who has set Sir John Sinclair upon his
black ram. By the way, I wish you would take Sin-
clair's two pamphlets into your own hands, and make fun

48 CORRESPONDENCE. [1811.

of liim, in a good-natured way. You would do me a
peculiar service, if you will deal with his currency, as
you did with his longevit}^ The inconsistency of his
opinions at present, with those which he published in
1797, in a pamphlet against the Bank restriction, and
which he repeated in the strongest terms in 1803, in the
second volume of his History of the Kevenue, is rather
a matter of grave charge, for which he ought to be put
upon the defensive. I am told that George Chalmer
has put forth a volume against us, more extravagantly
wrong than even Sinclair ; perhaps you could contrive
to put them side by side into one frame, and exhibit the
pair of portraits, like Noodle and Doodle in their old
tie and buckle, and in the full complacency of conscious
wisdom.

The subject you suggest of the present state of com-
merce, with all its circumstances, and all the consider-
ations, both retrospective and in prospect, that naturally
belong to it, is a noble one, but of very difficult execution.
I do not know what to say about peace : I should like,
of all things, to have, for my own judgment, the benefit
of the views which you could suggest j but for the sake of
the public, I reaUy think your opinion ought to be very
deliberately weighed and confidently formed, before you
give the sanction of your authority to sentiments and
expectations, which, though remarkably dormant at
present, may be raised any day among the people to an
unmanageable size.

Upon the question of peace, I parted company with
some of my best advisers, and you (I fear) among them,
at the moment of the Spanish insurrection ; thinking
that the circumstances of that event recommended an
extension of hostilities, upon the very same principle,
which condemned the original hostilities on our part,

Mt. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. 49

with which this long war commenced. However persons
may differ, as to the policy of having acted upon this
principle towards Spain, they must all, I apprehend, ad-
mit that we have bound ourselves by our treaty with
the insurgents, and that we cannot, in good faith, aban-
don them, while they preserve any hopes. Besides this
obligation of good faith, in respect of which there can
be no difference between us, I have not yet myself re-
linquished such hopes, though you will probably regard
me as somewhat enthusiastic in retaining them so long ;
but miserable as our disappointments have been, beyond
all former estimates of the degradation to which a long
course of despotism could reduce a great people, I do
not yet see that the affairs of the insurgents in the
peninsula are desperate. And I would have this country
act upon the same views, and if possible with the same
magnanimity, as Elizabeth showed to the rebels in the
Netherlands, and persevered in at the lowest ebb of
their fortunes. This is an immediate consideration,
which would prevent me from acquiescing in any pre-
sent proposal of peace, unaccompanied by a stipulation
on the part of France to evacuate Spain. But it grows
out of a principle, which carries me a great deal farther,
and compels me almost to make up my mind to what
you will call an indefinite prospect of war ; a prospect
never to be avowed, however, even when it appears
most certain.

In the situation to which the continent of Europe is
reduced, and in the situation which England commands,
I cannot imagine a general peace of any duration ; and
without it, we can have no peace with France. I rest
very little argument now, upon the personal character
of Bonaparte ; the direct effect of his name and genius,
so prodigious for a certain period of time, is at length

VOL. II. 5

50 CORRESPONDENCE. [1811

almost sunk in that change of the state of the world
which he has effected. I rest no argument at all upon
his particular designs against this country, which is the
grand reason with our vulgar for perpetual war ; because,
though to prevail over England must be the final scope
and aim of his ambition, without which the absolute
disposal of the whole Continent leaves his love of glory
unsatisfied, and would be insufficient to transmit his
name to posterity as equal to those conquerors of former
ages who overcame all that was great and civilised
in their own time, and all that was opposed to them ;
yet his personal passion for making a conquest of us
cannot be a better reason for war, than the national
design, pursued under all changes of government, which
France has ever entertained against us, and which we
have ever entertained against France. It is the natural
condition and infirmity of powerful neighbours ; which
never can become a reason to either of them for refus-
ing to make peace wdth the other, as long as they
preserve any thing near an equality of force for the
maintenance of war. My view of our situation is taken
from other circumstances. What is likely to be the
state of the Continent for many years to come ? And
in the probable condition of the Continent, what must
be the conduct of England ; which (whatever her inter-
est might be, if it could be managed for years together
with perfect wisdom) cannot but be impelled by the
voice of the people, and by the ancient habits of politi-
cal as well as commercial connexion ? If the whole
Continent were to be tranquillised into one empire, and
should slumber for years in repose under a vigilant and
well-organised despotism, no fate could be intended for
us but annexation to the mass; nor could we devise any
safety for ourselves, but by adopting public institutions,

Ml. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. gj

and by fostering sentiments of individual ambition and
conduct, of which defensive war and the most rigid
prejudices of local patriotism were the constant objects.
But it is seldom that human affairs fall into such a forced
state. It seems infinitely more probable, that the new
empire of France will be perpetually disturbed by efforts
in one member or another to throw off the yoke ; in the
north of Germany, for instance, where military genius
might win a fair kingdom, or in the hereditary states of
Austria, where the natives cannot yet have despaired
of recovering their ancient independence. Should such
chances arise, even if the struggle of Spain were over, I
conceive it would be the duty of this country, and I am
sure it would be unavoidable at any rate, to contri-
bute from our resources every aid and encouragement
to the insurgents. It is idle to sigh for peace, if it can-
not be had upon system, and for a period to be sure of;
England forms a part of Europe, and must share its
vicissitudes and agitations.

The point to be considered is, by what mode, and
upon Avhat principles the war may be conducted, so as
to afford the best chance of contributing to the ultimate
restoration of independence to some of those kingdoms,
which never can be incorporated with France, from the
diversity of race and languages. In my judgment, we
have only to act upon the principles by which Elizabeth
was guided, and afterwards King William ; forbearing
all little bye objects of gain and aggrandisement, and
keeping steadily in view, through all fortunes and in
the lowest depth of our despair, the ultimate partition
of the Continent into independent states, and the revival
of a public law in Europe. For such conduct, looking
so far forward, much patience, and constancy, and
public integrity, will be required ; but it is a part

52 CORRESPONDENCE. [1811.

worthy of this nation, and no more, in proportion to its
present means, than it has done before.

You will consider me very belligerent : I do not know
that I ever before exposed to you, or indeed to any-
body else, the full extent of my warlike disposition. It
has been growing upon me, ever since the news of the
memorable day at Aranjuez. I will not say there is no
inconsistency between my present views of the question,
and those which induced me to give ray vote in support
of Whitbread's last motion for peace ; but, besides hav-
ing reflected more upon the whole subject, the main
parts of it have undergone an essential alteration, both
by the immense acquisitions of empire which Bonaparte
has made since, and by the great example which the
poor Spaniards have set to the rest of the world.

Before I quit the subject, I ought to say, that it would
form an essential part of my plan of policy, to adopt
Bonaparte's kings, without disputing their title ; to
teach them to look to England for support, if they have
either a mind to show themselves ungrateful, or find
him too exacting in the gratitude he requires. Berna-
dotte, therefore, and Joachim, I would make a point of
gaining ; as, if there had been any chance of assisting
Louis with effect, I would have supported him in resist-
ance to his brother. These, I will own at the same time,
are operations of diplomacy, requiring more talent than
I am afraid we possess in that department, and a more
uniform course of foreign policy than we are likely to
see pursued. But it is time to put an end to this letter,
which your kind little note that I received at breakfast
has drawn from me.

I have not yet read your review of Stewart with
sufficient attention to judge between you, which I mean
to do with as much impartiality as my infirm nature

Mt. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. 53

will allow of,, though I shall set about it with an old
opinion on Stewart's side, in the main question about
which you differ. I was much pleased with the just
praise you have bestowed on him ; and there is a kind-
ness in the particular turn of those praises, which satis-
fies me that you now feel what sort of merit his is.

With regard to party politics, I have little to tell you ;
except that the Prince has sent for Lord Grenville, and
that he and Lord Grey (who comes to London this even-
ing), are the persons to whom he will apply for advice
as soon as he is Regent. The Prince has conducted
himself throughout the whole transaction, in very deli-
cate circumstances, with eminent propriety, and with
perfect honour towards the Whigs ; who had in truth no
right to consider him as owing any obligation to them.
Whether the King will ultimately recover or not, and
whether during the precarious interval of a regency
administration, any good can be expected to be done, is
more than I can tell you.

I am really obliged to you for reporting to me what
Brougham has said of me ;* not only because I love
praise dearly, but because it gives me more pleasure to
hear of any thing like partiality in Brougham about me
or any thing I have done, than even if I could be con-
vinced that I had deserved his favourable testimony.
His alienation from me, for reasons which I never have
been able even to guess, is the only considerable misfor-
tune I have ever suffered in my life ; and it would take
quite a load off my mind, if he would give me a hint to
catch at, for forffettins; that I ever had suffered it. I

* " I have really heard a great deal about your speech, and especiallv from
Brougham, who says it was full of Instruction and sound argument, admirably
delivered. 7'his testimony gave me a feeling of very unusual delight ; and I
think it will please you to hear of it." — Extract from a Letter of Mr. Jeffrey
to Mr. Horner, lAth January^ 1811. — Ed.

54 CORRESPONDENCE. [1811.

have always cherished a hope, that we may in time
approximate again.

I am glad to hear your account of your health. Per-
severe in exercise and temperance of all kinds. I shall
rely upon having a letter from you very soon ; give me
that gratification next week, when I shall be suffering
all the complicated afflictions of frost, and absence from
London, and " Crowner's-quest " law. I go down to
Wells on Sunday, but my sure address is always here.
Ever affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLXV. FROM LORD GRENVILLE.
Dear Sir Camelford House, 2 2d January, 1811.

I have waited with much impatience for your
return to town, being very desirous of conversing with
you on a subject in the highest degree interesting to
myself It may perhaps save some time if I take this
mode of mentioning the matter to you generally, re-
questing at the same time that you will allow me the
opportunity of seeing you on the subject to-morrow, at
any time that may suit you best. I shall be at home
the whole morning.

There is some question, as I will then more particu-
larly explain to you, of the formation of a new Ad-
ministration. In this arrangement, if it should take
place, I have been requested to resume my former situ-
ation at the head of the Treasury, and Mr. Tierney
would, in that case, probably be Chancellor of the
Exchequer.

It would afford to me, under the anxiety inseparable
from such a prospect, a satisfaction not to be described,
if I could hope to persuade you to assist me as one of

iEx. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. 55

the Secretaries of the Treasury. I do not mean to flat-
ter you when I say, that I should myself feel, and I am
confident such would be the universal impression, that I
had in that way secured the assistance of the person in
all England the most capable of rendering efficient ser-
vice to the public in that situation, and of lightening
the burthen which I am thus to undertake*

Believe me, dear Sir, with great truth and regard.

Most sincerely yours,

Grenville.

Letter CLXVI. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
My dear Murray, London, 30th January, 1811.

I received your last kind letter when I was at
Wells ; and have since heard, by a message from Syd-
ney through Whishaw, that the poney is upon the road.

Of course you, who know me so well, could not enter-
tain any apprehensions, from what you may have read
in the newspapers, that I was likely to be tempted to
take a political situation. I wish, however, to let you
know, but in confidence for the present, that I have
been put to the trial, and have decided without any
difficulty to adhere to the rule which I laid dow^n for
myself when I went into Parliament, not to take any
political office until I was rich enough to live at ease
out of office.

There is a high probability that the Regent will form
a new administration, though the point is not yet settled ;
because the advice he has received upon the question is
made to rest, upon what he shall find to be the real con-
dition of the King, which hitherto has been concealed
from his family, and studiously involved in contradictory

* The answer to this letter has not been found. — Ed.

56 CORRESrONDENCE. [1811.

and false reports. My own conviction is, that he will
be found so far from the appearance of a probable re-
covery, that the Regent will take his measures as for a
permanency. With a view to the arrangement that
would then be formed, I have been asked, in a manner
very flattering to me, to undertake the office of financial
secretary of the Treasury ; which I have declined. The
opportunity there is, at present, in that department, of
rendering service to the country, both in meeting the
difficulties which are coming on in its revenue, as well
as commercial concerns, and in conducting to a proper
result the discussions which have been stirred respecting
the state of the currency ; the field which is opened by
the present state of the House of Commons ; the plea-
sure of having a man in whom I entirely confide for my
colleague, and the gratification of accepting office with
the rest of one's party, at a moment when such a step
is attended with some uncertainty and adventure : are
considerations which would have strongly tempted me,
if I had permitted myself to bring into doubt the pro-
priety of my previous resolution. I decided therefore
at once, and of course consider it a decision for life. I
beg that you will not mention what I have now told
you, for obvious reasons.

Affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLXVI.* TO THE HON. MRS. SPENCER.
Dear Mrs. Spencer, London, February, 1811.

I saw Ward in the House on Tuesday, not look-
ing ill I thought ; but I was not aware that he had been
unwell. He keeps himself at such a distance from me,
that it is by accident only I ever hear of him. He was

^T. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. 57

easily alarmed about his health ; and has a most excel-
lent constitution.

I do not remember any thing worth your reading in the
two volumes,* after the life of Wolsey. I entirely agree
with you in thinking the only blemish in Sir Thomas
More's perfections was his being too good a Catholic.
Yet I doubt whether he was sincerely so, to the full ex-
tent of his professions. The part he took against the
reformation appears to have proceeded in some degree
from an apprehension that it was likely to endanger the
political order and safety of Europe, and subvert the
institutions of society ; for the whole of Christendom
formed at that time one state under the Pope, and cast-
ing off his supremacy was a revolution of which the im-
mediate effects were very hurtful to the quiet and pros-
perity of every nation ; and it required a very firm eye
to see beyond them the remote beneficial consequences.
I have sometimes fancied there was a considerable like-
ness in Sir Thomas More's conduct in the reformation to
Windham's about the French revolution -, they were
both friendly to the innovation in its commencement,
both eager liberty-boys in their youth, but became dis-
gusted and shocked by the violence to which it led, and
could not endure the prospect of the whole system of
laws and government undergoing an untried change.
There are other traits of resemblance that one migJit
trace. I have great admiration for Margaret, who
seems to have been the only one of the fiimily worthy
of the father. I am in no hurry to have the books
back.

Ever ftiithfully yours,

Fka. Horner.

* Of Wordsworth's Ecclesiastical Biography.

58 CORRESPONDENCE. [1811.

Letter CLXVI.** TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
Mj dear Murray, Launceston, 26th March, 1811.

When I was at Exeter last week, I had the
pleasure of receiving your letter from Bruntisland ;
which has since furnished me with several agreeable
meditations. I had heard nothing before of the Sheriff-
ship of Peebles-shire ; Montgomery's conduct was most
friendly towards you, and, in a public point of view,
liberal as well as judicious. Your own conduct has been
most strictly correct, and quite worthy of yourself and
all your former life ; the sentiments which you express
regarding the judicial nature of the Sheriff's office, and
the impropriety, on the part of a professional man, in
either soliciting it or accepting it, as a political favour,
or refusing it when conferred without solicitation, appear
to me sound, and such as become every man who pur-
sues the profession of the law upon just and honourable
principles. With this conviction, it will seem rather
inconsistent that I should feel a sort of satisfaction in
reflecting that you have not been made a Sheriff on this
occasion, and that I regard it as an escape from some
danger ; I cannot reason myself out of this incorrect
feeling about it, and therefore I own it to you. At first,
I disliked that there should have been a chance of your
owing any promotion to those whose public conduct you
condemn ; but I satisfied myself, that your view of the
nature of the Sheriff's place was more proper, and that,
by the manner in which you gave your answer to Sir
James's proposal, you had clearly guarded yourself
against any mistake on that head. But what I cannot
dismiss from my mind is, an apprehension that your con-
duct would not have been universally understood ; be-

jEt. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. 59

cause the motives upon which you would have acted in
accepting the place, are not such as the vulgar can
readily apprehend. One of the lamentable conse-
quences of the manner in which the patronage of Scot-
land has so long been dispensed, is, that it is hard for a
man to act up to his own standard of public duty, who
wishes to command the means of rendering service
to the public by the weight of a character not only
pure, but never questioned. A part of Lord Melville's
policy, in managing his burgh of Scotland, has been to
make Sheriffships political gifts ; and in this he has suc-
ceeded so well, and with respect to judicial offices indeed
of a higher rank than the Sheriff's, that the vulgar here
almost forget that they are judicial, and regard them
much in the same light as he does, who has so degraded
them. The present rancour and illiberality of political
differences make the vulgar a much more numerous and
powerful body, than they have been in better times ;
and one of the evils of their ungenerous domination
over public sentiment is, that the sphere within which
a man may turn his talents, knowledge, and integrity to
the public service, is contracted, by the necessity of
guarding against possible imputations, and his real use-
fulness diminished, by the prudence which is imposed
upon him, of foregoing small opportunities of being ser-
viceable, in order to maintain that reputation which is
to be the means of doing greater service. I will not
say that there is nothing strained in this, to apologize
for a feeling about this recent affair of yours, which I
cannot justify upon sounder and plainer reasons.

But 1 could not have boine any reflections to have
been made upon your conduct if the place had been
conferred as it ought, though, for myself, I knew it to
have been inflexibly right ; and although I allow it to

(JQ CORRESPONDENCE. [1811.

be a species of cowardice, which I have caught from the
present tone of the pubUc, with respect to public situ-
ations, yet I am more satisfied upon the whole that you
have not been named to the office which you so well
merited. I am perfectly aware that this sort of self-
denial may be carried a great deal too far, and that the
public interests are permanently injured by the back-
wardness of men of the higher caste to accept of official
places ; but I am well pleased it has so happened, that
you have not been made a sacrifice. I am much pleased
with the prospect of seeing you in town, though it will
be for so short a visit. I am glad to find by your letter
from Bruntisland, that you have resumed the salutary
practice of retreating to a solitude beyond the seas, in
the intervals of vacation. Nothing is more delightful
or more beneficial to one's mind, than solitude so en-
joyed occasionally^, both in raising and clearing all our
views of life, and in strengthening our best attachments.
I have never so much of your company, as when I get
a fine day by myself in the country ;

' But cliief, when evening scenes decay,

And the faint landskip swims away.

Ever very affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLXVII. TO THE HON. MRS. W. SPENCER.

My dear Mrs. Spencer, Lincoln's Lm, 4th May, isii.

I have allowed too many days to elapse without
answering the kind inquiries you made in your last
letter. I will reply to all your questions,, though it will
cost me some egotism. I did next to nothing upon the
circuit ; but that was not worse than before ; I have no

iET. S3.] CORRESPONDENCE. 01

right to expect success yet. I am getting on at Sessions,
which is the step that leads to success on the circuit ;
and, considering every thing, I have got on better than
I had any reason to expect. It is a very slow progress
that one makes in my profession, according to the usual
routine of advancement ; and I am not entitled to have
miracles wrought in my favour, nor qualified to work
miracles myself I enjoy a very happy poverty, and,
though I shall be very fond of advancement, if it comes
upon me, I shall not repine much if it never does. I
am going to Sessions at the end of this week, which will
keep me from town about eight or ten days ; I thought
you had learned what these are, as distinguished from
the circuit. Did not I teach it you, when you gave me
a little dinner in Curzon Street, before setting out one
winter night upon one of these irksome journies ? I do
not forget any thing that passed upon those pleasant
occasions, which I often bring to mind as among the
best days I have seen.

My mother is not in bad health, but not very strong ;
sea-bathing always does her good, and I have recom-
mended Torquay to her, as so very beautiful and quiet.
I mean to pass a month with her and my sisters and my
father, at that place in the autumn ; which will do me a
great deal of good in another way : they are all so
amiable, and my sisters out-growing me so fast in under-
standing and reading, that I shall rub off some of the
ignorance that one contracts in the business of London,
and some of the selfishness that steals upon one by not
living with other people very intimately. I have not yet
fixed whether I shall pass September at Torquay, or Oc-
tober. ^_^_J^Vgr^^y dear Mrs. Spencer,

Most truly yours,

Fra. Horner.

VCTLai.

!l9 .- -:

62 BULLION REPORT. [1811.

The great discussion on the Report of the Bullion
Committee commenced in the House of Commons on
the 6th of May. The Report had been presented to the
House on the 8th of June preceding, so that it had been
in the hands of members and of the public for several
months. In the earlier part of this session several pro-
ceedings had taken place upon the subject, preparatory
to the chief debate. Thus, on the 20th of February, Mr.
Rose * asked Mr. Horner, whether it was his intention to
proj^ose any legislative measure on the subject of the
Report ; and if it was, when he would be prepared to
introduce the question for discussion ?

Mr. Horner replied, that, "in his opinion, the docu-
ments and accounts already before the House were
amply sufficient to enable the House to proceed to this
investigation without the production of any further
papers ; — that he believed, however, that the accounts
lately moved for would require some time, and create
some difficulty before they could be obtained ; — that
he should therefore wait till his return from the circuit,
and bring the subject forward early in April ; — and that
it was his intention to 'submit a legislative measure,
founded on the Report of the Committee ; which mea-
sure would be, the repeal of the Bank Restriction Act."

On the 5th of April, Mr. Horner stated more fully the
course he intended to take ; he said, that, " having un-
derstood that his honourable and learned friend (Mr.
Abercromby) had given a notice in his absence of his
intention, on that day, to fix the period, and declare the
mode in which he proposed to bring forward the discus-
sion upon the Report of the Bullion Committee, he now

* The Right Honourable George Rose, Vice-President of the Board of
Trade.

jEt. 33.] BULLION REPORT. (33

rose to state what appeared to him to be the most expe-
dient course of proceeding. In the first place, as to
the mode ; it had been his earher intention to move for
leave to bring in a bill for the repeal of the Bank Re-
striction Act. He found since, on consulting with some
gentlemen, to wdiose experience of parliamentary busi-
ness he was bound to pay the greatest deference, that
the most advisable mode would be, to submit some pre-
vious resolutions, expressive of the general opinion of
the House on the question at issue, and which resolutions
might lay a foundation for a subsequent, and more con-
clusive, series of measures. He apprehended that this
would be done in the best manner in a committee of
the whole House ; and if the right honourable gentle-
man opposite (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) should
entertain a similar opinion, he was desirous of making
it immediatel}^ an order of the day, that the House
should go into a committee for this purpose on Monday
the 29th of April. If there should be any objection to
this suggestion, he begged that he might now be con-
sidered as giving a general notice on the subject of his
intention to bring on the discussion very soon after the
recess. As to the consideration of time, he was ex-
tremely sorry that a delay of such duration had taken
place ; but he trusted that when the nature of the busi-
ness in which parliament, at its first assembling, had
been engaged, was remembered, and the necessity he
was under of attending his professional avocations in the
country, he should stand acquitted of blame. Indeed,
he could not help thinking that the interval which had
thus been suffered to elapse would be far from proving
productive of any injurious consequences to the dis-
cussion. It had been alleged that the causes of the pre-
sent condition of our paper currency were quite of a

64 BULLION REPORT. [1811.

temporary nature, and it might therefore be well to
allow the force of this argument to be fairly tried. He
had hoped for an opportunity of introducing the question
on some day before the recess -, but as the present was
certainly too late an hour, and there was no clear day
before the holidays, he would propose, if the course he
had suggested was approved, to move. That the Report
of the Bullion Committee be referred to a committee of
the wdiole House, on Monday the 29th of April."

On the 11th of April, Mr. Horner stated the substance
of the resolutions which he intended to propose in the
committee.

" The main purpose," he said, " which he professed to
have in view, was to embody the opinions of the Bullion
Committee into his resolutions, for the adoption of the
House. In the first place, he would state, in those re-
solutions, that it was, from time immemorial, the cus-
tom, law, and policy of the coimtry, that the standard
should be of the lawful coin of the realm ; that, having
thus resolved, then it would be his object to propose
that a deviation was apparent in the present currency,
compared with the actual currency, as established by
law. He should then propose to state w^hat, in his opi-
nion, was the cause of the deviation in the actual cur-
rency from what by law it was intended it should be ;
and next, to state what appeared to be the recent state
of the foreign exchanges ; and lastly, he should submit,
for the approbation of the committee, what in his opin-
ion appeared best calculated to remedy the evil com-
plained of."

He then stated the various regulations imposed by
acts of parliament from the time of Elizabeth, to the
present time, for settling the standard.

"Upon these acts he should propose a resolution,

iEx. 33.] BULLION REPORT. 65

stating, that the only legal money, which can pass, is
gold and silver, as declared by the various proclamations
alluded to, with a reference to the acts ; and that such
being the fact, the fall or deviation in the currency was
occasioned by too abundant an issue of paper by the
Bank of England and country bankers; and that the
only security for the country was to convert this paper
into legal currency, at the option of the holder, at the
then price of exchange ; and he should conclude with a
resolution, recommending, as expedient and necessary,
the amending of the law, which authorises the Bank of
England to suspend their cash payments. These were,
he said, the substantial heads of his resolutions ; and he
trusted that if gentlemen on the opposite side were dis-
posed to offer any thing by way of amendment, they
would do him the courtesy to make him acquainted with
the substance of their propositions previous to the day
on which he should move the House to go into a com-
mittee."

The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Percival) ex-
pressed his acknowledgments to Mr. Horner for the
candour of his communication^, and assured him that
the resolutions he intended to propose would be met
with equal candour on that side of the House.

On the 24th of April, Mr. Vansittart * stated his in-
tention to propose a series of resolutions on the subject
of the Bullion Report, in case those of his friend Mr.
Horner should not be adopted.

On the 3 0th of April, the Committee of the whole
House was postponed to the 6th of May. Mr. Horner
on that occasion stated, — " that he was perfectly pre-
pared to go into the discussion at any time ; but as the

* Nicholas Vansittart, Esq., afterwards Chancellor of the Exchequer, the
present Lord Bexley.

6(3 BULLION REPORT. [1811.

counter-resolutions of Mr. Vansittart were founded upon
an extensive mass of evidence, which it would be im-
possible for gentlemen to decide upon justly, without
making themselves acquainted with that evidence par-
ticularly, he thought the delay would be useful."

Mr. Horner's speech on the 6th of May occupied three
hours in the delivery ; and he concluded by moving a
series of resolutions, sixteen in number. The debate
was adjourned at half-past one in the morning : it was
resumed next day, and the following, and was brought
to a close on the fourth day, when Mr. Horner replied.
His resolutions were lost by a majority of 76, — 75 vot-
ing in favour of them, and 151 against them. A second
division took place on the last of the resolutions, — viz.
"That in order to revert gradually to this security,
(against an excess of paper currency, and for maintain-
ing the relative value of the circulating medium of the
realm,) and to enforce meanwhile a due limitation of
the paper of the Bank of England, as well as of all the
other bank paper of the country, it is expedient to
amend the act which suspends the cash payments of the
Bank, by altering the time, till which the suspension
shall continue, from six months after the ratification of a
definitive treaty of peace, to that of two years from the
present time." This resolution was negatived by a ma-
jority of 135, — 45 voting for it, and 180 against it.

A few days afterwards, Mr. Vansittart brought for-
ward his counter-resolutions, and at the close of the de-
bate upon them, Mr. Horner moved his own resolutions
as an amendment, for the purpose merely of having
them entered on the Journals.

I have thus given a summary of what took place in
the House of Commons on this celebrated question, be-
cause of the prominent part which Mr. Horner bore in

2Et. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. 67

the inquiry and discussion ; and it is sufficient, I believe,
to give a give a general view of the opinions he held,
and the conclusions to which he had come, at this period,
upon this difficult and intricate branch of political econ-
omy. The limits assigned to this work prevent me from
doing more ; and if there are any who now feel disposed
to investigate the history of the proceedings in parlia-
ment on this important subject, they will find a pretty
full report of Mr. Horner's speech, and the resolutions
he moved, in Hansard's Debates.

Letter CLXVIU. TO fflS FATHER.
Mv dear Sir Lincoln's Inn, lOtli May, 1811.

I have been prevented from writing to you these
few days, by being very busy. I have at last got through
my share of the bidlion question, which we have had
for four late nights. I shall take very little charge of
what remains to be done or proposed. Vansittart is to
move his resolutions in the committee on Monday, on
one of which Tierney will move an amendment ; amount-
ing to a declaration very much like one of my rejected
resolutions, that the Bank ought (during the restriction)
to keep the same principles in view which limited their
notes before, and implying, farther, the princij)le (some-
what beyond mine) that the Bank ought to consider itself
bound to be ready to resume cash payments at the ear-
liest notice. I hardly think that I shall urge any of the
amendments upon Vansittart's resolutions, which I print-
ed some time ago ; my chief purpose in circulating
them was to have a concise counter statement of facts
in the hands of members before the debate. I have
nothing further to do, so far as I am at present con-
cerned with the question, but to move my resolutions

6g CORRESPONDENCE. [1811.

again in the House, for form's sake, that they may be
put upon the Journals.

The divisions were better than I expected, particularly
upon the last ; that division I took at a venture, contra-
ry to the wishes of some who left me : but I am satisfied
that good has been done by getting the forty-five names
which I shall have to show for that.

One is very apt to fancy the best of the argument on
one's own side ; and I am indulging myself at present
in that belief It seems to me that a very important
impression has been made upon the House by the dis-
cussion, such as will not soon be worn out, and will be a
ground-work for a future attempt of the same sort, to
cure this great disorder. It is very creditable to the
House, that so tedious a debate upon so uninviting a
subject was heard with much attention, and without
any impatience ; nothing perhaps could prove more
strongly, that however the votes have gone, from timidi-
ty, as well as from the usual motives that make majori-
ties, there is a general persuasion that something of
importance to every man's own private concerns, as
well as the public interests, was involved in the question.

The best speech was Canning's, which astonished every
body, by the knowledge which he showed of the sub-
ject, which must be a very unpalatable one to him, and
by the business-like manner in which he treated it ; he
had all his fancy and wit about him too, and played
with the most knotty subtilties of the question as easily
as if it had been familiar to him.

Ever most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

P. S. Brougham made a speech in the Court of King's
Bench yesterday which is highly commended.

^T. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. . gg

Letter CLXIX. FROM THE REV. T. R. MALTIIUS.
My dear Horner, E. I. College, Hertford, 12tli May, 1811.

I congratulcate you most sincerely on your two
very able and eloquent speeches, which I hear from all
quarters far exceeded what could possibly have been
expected from the subject. I wonder, indeed, how you
could contrive to treat a question, necessarily involving
so many dry details, in a manner which seems to have
so completely commanded the attention of your hearers.
It is impossible that the discussion should not do good ;
and I have no doubt that you have convinced many who
voted against you.

I am somewhat surprised at Tierney, and hope he will
do better on the debate upon Vansittart's propositions,
in which I hear he means to propose some amendments.

We shall rely upon seeing you and Whishaw on Sat-
urday.

Ever truly yours,

T. EoB^- Malthus.

Letter CLXX. TO HIS FATHER.
Mv dear Sir Lincoln's Inn, IGtli May, 1811.

My mother rather expected a letter from you
this morning ; she called here on her way to the exhi-
bition, to which she has taken some of her young friends.
She is remarkably well.

I have at last got rid of bullion ; the country, I fear,
will not get rid of the necessity of resuming the ques-
tion very soon. So far as the mere votes of the House
of Commons go, mischief has been done by the parlia-
mentary discussion ; for we have concluded by two re-

70 CORRESPONDENCE. [1811.

solutions, one of which misrepresents, in a very danger-
ous manner, the prerogative of the King over the stand-
ard of money, and the other is a ridiculous evasion of
the fact of depreciation. They will probably give birth
to a new host of pamphlets. But, in another point of
view, the impression made upon the public mind, as to
the importance of the question, I believe much good
has been done ; in the House, it was manifest, that we
established unanswerably our conclusions, though the
apprehensions naturally excited by such a statement,
and magnified by the obscurity in which most persons
find themselves upon such a subject, make them dread
the effect of confessing its truth. I hear, also, that there
has been a considerable change in the sentiments of the
city. You must be sick, however, of this business.

The King has been materially worse in point of bodily
health lately, and the delusions of his mind are said to
recur still very frequently. The ministers speak rather
diffidently now of his ultimate recovery, though the
physicians are as ready as ever to swear to it. The
session of parliament will probably be drawn out till
after the first w^eek of July, when there will be another
quarterly Report from the Queen's counsel. He com-
plains very much of being under petticoat government,
and is much puzzled to make out why he should be sub-
jected to this thraldom at present, when he says he is
not worse than he has been for years. Such are the
stories. There was a very affecting proof of his melan-
choly state, given last week at the concert of ancient
music ; it was the Duke of Cambridge's night, who an-
nounced to the directors that the King himself had made
the selection. This consisted of all the finest passages
to be found in Handel, descriptive of madness and blind-
ness ; particularly those in the opera of Samson ; there

JEx. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. >ji

was one, also, upon madness from love, and the lamen-
tation of Jephtliali upon the loss of his daughter ; and
it closed with God save the King, to make sure the ap-
plication of all that went before. It was a very melan-
choly as well as singular instance of sensibility ; that in
the intervals of reason he should dwell upon the worst
circumstances of his situation, and have a sort of indul-
gence in soliciting the public sympathy.

I am very happy to hear that you mean to take a
little excursion into the Highlands ; it is a charming sea-
son for it. I am going down with Whishaw for two
days to visit Malthus in Hertfordshire, and hear his
nightingales; we shall go on Saturday. You will be
comforted to hear that Leonard's little Mary is almost
quite well again.

Ever, my dear Sir,

Most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLXX.* TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
My dear Murray, Lincoln's inn, 24th May, isn.

I heard of the President's* sudden death yester-
day ; by some means, the intelligence reached London
before it could have been brought by the post. It is
impossible to figure any loss by which Scotland could
have suffered so deeply, as by this afilicting event ;
whether what we have actually been deprived of be
considered, or what we have to place in Mr. Blair's
room. I had no personal acquaintance with him, and
have had no opportunity of seeing him in his judicial
situation, but I have long felt the greatest admiration

* Robert Blair, Lord President of the Court of Session^in Scotland.

72 CORRESPONDENCE. [1811.

for his manly, venerable character, and have indulged
the most agreeable expectations of the beneficial influ-
ence which his administration of the law would have
upon the jurisprudence and upon the public mind of his
country.

Short as his Presidency has been, I cannot but cherish
a belief, that he has left a permanent imjoression. His
example will remain, a pattern for those who have been
most sensible of his merits, and who may hereafter have
a similar opportunity of labouring in the pubHc service ;
and his name and memory may, even in the meanwhile,
be some check on those unworthy ones, who are likely
to be his immediate successors. What a fortunate and
enviable close of such a life, and how suitable a reward,
if one may venture to say so, of that long tenor of
purity and loftiness of conduct, that he should be allowed
to withdraw himself, without an interval of decay, while
his reputation was still growing.

The conduct of the bar upon this occasion does them
great honour, and I must own that what you mention of
Lord Craig's"" firmness has quite affected me. In his
languishing condition, the fame and usefulness of his
great friend, and the prospect of their continuance long
beyond the period of his own life, must have been the
chief circumstance on which he could look with any
pleasure, and the loss of all this will leave nothing to
him but gloom. With the sensibility which has always
depressed and enfeebled him, it required no common
portion of virtue to assume on such a day a decent com-
posure.

The statue will perhaps be erected at the expense of
the Faculty as a corporation. If it should be done by

* One of the Judges.

iEx. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. 73

the subscription of inclividuals, or if there should be a
subscription in the Faculty among the members, 3'ou
will not forget that I am one, and I beg you will do for
me what you do yourself You ought to have it exe-
cuted by Westmacot, who has much more talent than
any other artist of the present day. I am much pleased
with what you report to me of Moneypenny's'-' conversa-
tion with Jeffrey ; it is a proof how little Jeffrey and I met
lately, that he did not tell me of this, as he is always
ready to do justice to those whom party separates from
him. This sort of candour and manly difference, which
is far more practicable in party hostilities than is com-
monly imagined, would disarm them of all the ill they
are attended with, and would give double efficacy to
the good and utility which the public derives from
parties.

Most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLXXI. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
Mv dear MurraV Lincoln's inn, 29th May, 1811.

In my last letter, I omitted to give you an answer,
as to my intentions with respect to the publication of
the speeches I made on the bullion question. All the
reluctance which I felt about exposing myself in that
shape to the public, has been so powerfully seconded by
my indolence, that if I had any longer resolution enough
to attempt it, it would not be in my power. I must be
content, therefore, with such treatment as the newspaper
reporters have bestowed upon me, and as I did not read
these at the time, I shall know nothing of them till Cob-

* After\Yards Lord Pltmilly, one of the Judges of the Court of Session.
VOL. II. 7

Y4 CORRESPONDENCE. • [1811.

bett's debates are published. The principal grounds
upon which I rested the resolutions that I proposed to
the House, are contained in the Keport, and are, indeed,
old and well established, not only in the political writers
of this country, but in the policy itself of our laws ;
there is nothing new, therefore, to record. Some points
in the theory of money, and in the scientific expla-
nation of some of its principles, are still, indeed, but ill
settled ; though not so as to affect materially the prac-
tical conclusions, belonging to our present question. I
have sometimes had thoughts of writing a short essay
upon these speculative parts of the subject, and men-
tioned it to my father, who seems to have misunderstood
my intention. As for the practical question now de-
pending, I shall confine myself to the parliamentary
discussion of it. With respect to Rose's misrepresenta-
tions, it would be endless and discreditable to engage in
a controversy of facts with him ; he did not mention a
single error of the least consequence in the statements
of the Report, though I could have helped him to some,
and it is ludicrous to scrutinise a paper of that sort as if
it were a laboured composition.

It is very good in you to acquiesce in my arrange-
ment for the early part of the vacation ; after the 12th
of October, I shall consider myself entirely at your dis-
posal, in whatever way you like, and shall think you
dispose of me very well if you summon me to Edin-
burgh.

Ever, my dear Murray,

Faithfully and affectionatel}^ 3^ours,

Era. Horner.

^T. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. ^5

Letter CLXXII. TO THE HON. MRS. W. SPENCER.

My dear Mrs. Spencer, Friday, May, 1811.

Here is another letter from Willj, and I have
sent yours to his captain.

I am dehghted with your account of Tunbridge, that
is Rastal Common, which I always thought the finest
part of it. In this beautiful season, and especially after
the business of Brighton, it must be quite a luxury to
you. Pray keep it up till I come. I find that the 3d
and 4th of next month are holidays, and the 2d is a
Sunday ; I propose to come then, and take up my resi-
dence at the little hotel at Tunbridge Wells, if that
time will suit you.

I am amused with your interrogatory to me about the
nightingale's note. You meant to put me in a dilemma,
with my politics on one side, and my gallantry on the
other. Of course you consider it as a plaintive note ;
and you were in hopes that no idolater of Charles Fox
would venture to agree with that opinion. In this diffi-
culty, I must make the best escape I can, by saying it
seems to me neither cheerful nor melancholy ; but
always according to the circumstances in which you
hear it, the scenery, your own temper of mind, and so
on. I settled it so with myself early in this month,
when I heard them every night and all day long at
Wells. In daylight, when all the other birds are in con-
cert, the nightingale only strikes you as the most active,
emulous, and successful of the whole band. At night,
especially if it is a calm one, with light enough to give
you a wide indistinct view, the solitary music of this
bird takes quite another character, from all the associ-
ations of the scene, from the languor one feels at the

76 ' CORRESPONDENCE. [1811.

close of the day, and from the stilhiess of spirits and
elevation of mind which come upon one walking out at
that time. But it is not always so ; different circum-
stances will vary in every possible way the effect. Will
the ni<>;htino;ale's note sound alike to the man who is
going on an adventure to meet his mistress, supposing
he heeds it at all, and when he loiters along upon his
return ? The last time I heard the nightingale, it was
an experiment of another sort ; it was after a thunder-
storm, in a wild night, while there was silent lightning
opening every few minutes, first on one side of the
heavens, then on the other ; the careless little fellow
was piping away in the midst of all this terror : there
was no melancholy in his note to me, but a sort of sub-
limity ; yet it was the same song which I had heard in
the morning, and which then seemed nothing but bustle.
I suspect I have been quite sentimental upon this
most trite of all subjects; by the way, if you should tell
me so, I will accuse you of being a little precieiise in
what you say about acquaintances at Tunbridge.

Yours ever,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLXXIL* TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
My dear Murray, Lincoln's Inn, 24tli June, 1811.

I wish we could meet and have a gossip upon the
present state of things; which is very curious, and an
excellent subject for speculation and gossip. Nothing of
importance has occurred for a long while, in the domes-
tic politics ; but the little circumstances which pass daily
and accumulate, give one by degrees a sort of history,
which would be very untruly given without reporting
all; and indeed of themselves, by their accumulation and

^Et. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. 77

gradual effect, work a change in the position and ar-
rangement of political persons. Nothing can be more
whimsical than the present posture of what are still
called parties ; and the anxious, uncertain state of many
of the politicians, of all descriptions. I expect, that the
prorogation of parliament will be the signal for a more
active course of intrigues at Carlton House ; which, in a
certain way, have been going on a long while.

I believe the Regent to be completely in the hands
of Earl Yarmouth and the Duke of Cumberland j two of
the worst men, in point of principle, public and private,
that are to be found in this or any other country. The
Lord Chancellor is intriguing under the wings of the
Duke of Cumberland ; working out his separate salva-
tion, and betraying Percival (so far) just as he betrayed
the Doctor '^ in 1804. The Regent courts Lord Grey,
on the one hand, and Sir Francis Burdett on the other ;
and has adopted all the unjust and mean prejudices of
the higher aristocrats and Windsor against Lord Gren-
ville ; to whom, if the whigs do not repay (as I trust and
believe they will) the same fidelity which he has observed
since their coalition, there will be an end of all honour
in politics. Cobbett's silence about the Duke of York,
which finally settles his character in point of honesty, is
said to turn upon some expectations which have been
held out to him of a remission of his sentence ; he is
said to have been talked to by Denis O'Brien, who is the
friend of Bate Dudley, who is the friend of Sheridan,
who is the friend of the Prince Regent. Cobbett said
he would not pledge himself, but has been silent on the
subject. Do not be surprised, therefore, if Cobbett lies
on in gaol ; and in the end betrays the whole communi-
cation, and reviles the Duke of York and the House of

* Lord Sidmouth.
7 *

78 CORRESPONDENCE. [1811.

Commons. I think it would have been a fair measure
for popularity, to have given an amnesty to all the state
libellers, with whom the King's Bench has crowded the
prisons ; but such negotiations with individuals, and
making terms on the part of the sovereign with those
whom the law has convicted, are not merely a great im-
propriety, but must give those unprincipled and fero-
cious persons such a hold over a nervous mob-led mind,
like the Regent's, as will prove embarrassing to him in
the extreme.

One may judge of a favourite's character by very
slio'ht circumstances. From what I saw of Earl Yar-
mouth, and heard fall from him at the fete the other
night, my conclusion was, that he has no command or
possession of himself, but must speedily render himself
odious. I find this impression very general. The arro-
gance and assuming vanity, and rudeness of his man-
ners, were very offensive. We shall have sport with him
one of these days, unless the Prince takes fright himself,
before we have an explosion.

Parliament will be prorogued next week, as soon as
the quarterly report is made by the Queen's Council,
which is to sit on Tuesday the 2d.

Ever, my dear Murray,

Affectionately yours,

Era. Horner.

Letter CLXXIII. TO LORD GRENVILLE.
TVJy Tjord Lincoln's Inn, 28th June, 1811.

I happened to be waiting at the bar of the House
of Lords yesterday, when Lord Stanhope presented a
Bill, for maintaining and enforcing the value of Bank
of England paper ; and I cannot resist the wish I feel to

jEt. 33.] CORRESPONDENCE. 79

call your Lordship's attention to the great importance
of what passed upon that occasion. The manner in
which the extraordinary proposal of Lord Stanhope was
received by Lord Liverpool and the Chancellor, and the
opinions which the former intimated upon the subject of
legal tender, convince me, that the ministers have had
the question of making Bank notes a legal tender under
their consideration, and that they are prepared to take
the first opportunity of effecting that momentous change
in the system of our commercial and financial economy.
I have been confirmed in the same conviction, by an
expression which the deputy-governor of the Bank used
to me, just before the debate took place, in talking of
Lord King's notice to his tenants, that he hoped Govern-
ment would not be compelled to make their notes a
legal tender. The directors affect to deprecate such an
alteration of the law ; but they look to it as their ulti-
mate protection, against the necessity, to which the gen-
eral adoption of Lord King's notice by landlords, and of
such actions against country bankers as have been
brought lately in the "West of England, would compel
the Bank of limiting its issues in order to remove the
depreciation of its notes. It appeared to me yesterday,
that the discussion brought on by Lord Stanhope gave
the ministers an opportunity, not merely of feeling the
pulse of the House upon this question, but of making
an impression favourable to such an expedient, when
they shall hereafter bring it forward • and I cannot but
think it will be a great misfortune to the public, if the
session of parliament closes with such an impression as
will be left both in the House of Lords and upon the
public mind, by such opinions, stated and not exposed,
nor protested against, by those who have most weight
and authority. The several successive steps, which have

80 CORRESPONDENCE. [1811.

been observed in every country that allowed its cur-
rency to fall into a state of depreciation, are coming
upon us faster than was to have been expected in this
country ; and as there will be no recovery after Bank
notes are made a legal tender, the discussions which
precede such a measure are evidently of the last im-
portance.

I take it for granted, that Lord King will attend on
Monday : the turn which was given to the debate yes-
terday renders that indispensable. If your Lordship
can make it convenient to yourself, to take a part in
the discussion, I am persuaded that the expression of
your sentiments will be of most essential benefit to the
public interests in this great question, and, I would
even flatter myself, might deter the ministers from fol-
lowing so fast that course of measures, into which their
own infatuation and the ignorance of their commercial
advisers seem driving them. I have the honour to be
Your Lordship's most faithful and obliged

Fra. Horner.

The session of parliament terminated on the 11th of
July. After his concluding speech on the bullion ques-
tion, on the 15th of May, Mr. Horner is not reported as
having taken a part in any other subject before the
House ; and in the early part of the session, after his
speech on the Regency, there are only short notices of
his having spoken, on five questions, and all of them of
minor importance.

iET. 34.] CORRESPONDENCE. 81

Letter CLXXIV. TO HIS BROTHER, AT MINEHEAD.

My clear Leonard, Torquay, 30th August, isii.

I received the enclosed letter this morning.
There has been some impatience expressed in this
house to hear from Minehead.

I am engaged at present in reading your paper/"*
which I have not sufficient knowledge of external char-
acters to get on with very rapidly. But I am very
much delighted with the manner of it : the simplicity,
plainness, and neatness of your style and arrangement
are in perfectly good taste, and quite suited to your
subject. I was glad, also, to see that you had preserved
a candid and philosophical neutrality between contend-
ing systems ; a circumstance which enhances much the
value of your observations. Do not let this, however,
prevent you from studying all the systems, and know-
ing the strong and weak parts of each ; for, after all, a
theory, but a true one, is the only legitimate aim of all
particular observations and studies of nature, which end
in nothing unless they serve to establish general conclu-
sions : a remark, indeed, which is implied in what }' on
have very justly and well expressed at the close of your
memoir. I cannot tell you, my dear Leo, how much I
am gratified, and how much my vanity and self-impor-
tance are raised by this success of yours, which is so
honourable to yourself, and which lends not a little
credit to all who belong to you.

I forgot, in my last note, to say what success I had
upon the last circuit ; it amounted to little or nothing.
I have not lost ground, however, but rather gained. In
my own county, I had more than at any former assizes ;

* On the ]Mineralo":y of tUc IMalvern Hills.

32 CORRESPONDENCE. [1811.

and at Exeter, I led one cause, not a considerable one,
but, in our little routine, that is looked upon as some-
thing. I scraped together about half the amount of my
expenses.

You have little notion how beautiful a scene we live
in here, and wdiat walks we have all round. To increase
the temptation, there are several most remarkable junc-
tions of the limestone and grauwacke ; the former of
w^hich is quarried, upon the face of the coast, in several
places. Then you will be within eight miles of the
Bovey coal, and the clay-pits, and w^ithin a dozen of
Dartmoor granite.

I had a letter this morning from Sir John Newport,
who says, that the Catholic body through the country
are coolly and determinately identifying themselves
with their committee, and are every where warmly
supported by a very considerable proportion of the
Protestants.

I shall be glad to hear what you are doing. If you
can point out aii}^ stones for me to look at here, or to
get specimens of for you, I ^^ill try. Give my kind
remembrances to Anne. My mother wishes to know
how the bathing agrees with our dear Mary.

Affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Lktter CLXXV. to his BROTHER, AT MLNEHEAD.
My dear Leonard, Torquay, 3d September, 1811.

I cannot tell you how much we are delighted at
the thoughts of your bringing Anne here. My mother
will tell you the particulars as to lodging and living. I
shall remain here till the 6th of October, when I must
leave it for the sessions; so that if you come about the

^T. 34.] CORRESPONDENCE. 83

20tli, we shall be a fortnight together — ample time for
me to show you many delightful walks, and for you to
lecture me upon junctions; which, as far as I can pre-
tend to judge, from a very slight and ignorant glance,
must be well worth your examination.

The quarries have exposed several broad faces of the
rock, at different points of the coast, as well as inland ;
what is worked is the limestone, in some places a mar-
ble; they leave what they call slate, and which they
say lies above it, in the rotten shivery state in which it
appears all round the West coast, for I take this slate to
be the same grauwacke of which so large a portion of
the West of England consists. I have not yet gone to
the junction, described by Mr. Playfair in his book, a
little to the south of Paignton, where he says the
ancient schistus receives a covering of horizontal red
sandstone ; this is what I wish you to examine particu-
larly, in order to ascertain the relation which the lime-
stone has to those other two rocks. It is a compact
limestone of a very dark blue, full of calcareous veins ;
it must be the same which Dr. Berger describes be-
tween Chudleigh and Ashburton, and it would be im-
portant to trace how near it goes up to Dartmoor. Dr.
Berger does not appear to have come down to Torbay ;
and it would appear from the manner in which Mr.
Playfair mentions the north shore of the bay, that he
had not examined the whole of it. Lord Webb, to be
sure, must know it all ; for he lived here a considerable
time. You see, therefore, how many strong reasons
there are for your coming over to this coast, as soon as
you have done with grauwacke on the north.

I doubt very much whether you may not err in
choosing the siijle of Mr. Playfair's work as a model to
be imitated ; if you mean, by style, the mere structure

g4 CORRESPONDENCE. [1811

of sentences. It is a charming style, and has an elo-
quence well suited to his subject; but it would, for this
very reason, be hazardous to imitate it, for it has a man-
ner and rhythm, which the ear easily catches, but which,
at second hand, would not be so agreeable. The models
to imitate are always those of the simple and pure sort ;
if there is to be a manner, and it is better avoided, let
it be your own. In Mr. Playfair's composition, there
are merits of another sort, which you can never suffi-
ciently study, and labour to imitate ; of these I shall
speak presently. But his style, like that of Mr. Stew-
art, has beauties which are very attractive, but which it
might prove very pernicious to copy. I do not know
any one English author, in this line of writing, who can
be mentioned as a model; you must make yourself
familiar with those who have written the language with
the greatest purity and plainness, for if you can handle
the genuine idioms of the true English dialect, you will
always write well on a subject upon which you are in
earnest. The great thing to avoid is an air of made
sentences ; which the illustrations of the Huttonian
theory have, perhaps, rather too much recommended
to your admiration. The little that I read of Saussure,
a few years ago, has left a very favourable impression
upon me ; I should think that your best exercise would
be to translate a volume of his travels, and make a
point of rendering it into pure English, if possible.
There is a little work of natural history, the style of
wdiich I have always admired; "White's Account of
the Country round Selbourne ; " he is an excellent
describer, and writes in good taste.

But Mr. Playfair's work deserves to be perpetually in
your hands, for its merits of the highest order in philo-
sophical composition. Though he has varnished over too

^T. 34.] CORRESPONDENCE. g5

partially the imperfections * of Dr. Hut ton's reasoning,
respecting tlie hypothesis of a central fire, and in this
particular has probably violated the rules of just philo-
sophy, yet I know no work in which the logic of induc-
tive reasoning may be learned to more advantage than
in the Illustrations. He always looks at his great sub-
ject in the just point of view, and sees it in all its mag-
nitude ; the precision and patience with which he de-
duces his reasonings upon the most minute particulars,
and the grandeur with which he comprehends all the
distant and complicated relations of the whole frame of
nature, form a very rare union of philosophical powers.
And this work, though the hypothetical part of its
theory will probably be in a great measure dismissed,
when our knowledge of the earth is more extended,
may be a standard at all times to be referred to, both
for the true description of the nature and object of geo-
logical science, and for the rules as well as for examples
of the proper method of forming its general conclusions.
You mention the contortions of the strata of grauwacke
which you have observed at Minehead ; you will see
some of the same sort here, and, if I am not mistaken,
similar irregularities in the limestone. It seems to me,
that sufficient attention has not yet been paid by geolo-
gists to these appearances.

Examine the limestone at "Watchet, and its relation
to the grauwacke there ; that you may compare it with
the limestone here, and consider whether there is a
similarity in the relation.

Here is a whole letter upon a subject of which I
know next to nothing : you will perhaps look upon me
as somewhat like the gentleman who gave Hannibal a
lecture upon the art of war. My secret purpose, how-
ever, is to bring you here.

VOL. II. 8

36 CORRESPONDENCE. [1811.

I am glad to hear that Mary is as great a wonder in
bathing as in every thing else. We all long to see her
again. With kind love to Anne.

Affectionately yours,

Era. Horner.

Letter CLXXVI. TO LORD WEBB SEYMOUR.
My dear Seymour, Torquay, 4th September, 1811.

I fear that I may have delayed this letter too
long, for its reaching Penrith before you ; but I had
some expectation of hearing from you, in answer to my
long sceptical ej)istle about conversions and deprecia-
tion.

I have been now ten days at Torquay, and am enjoy-
ing my leisure very much ; delighted with the beauty
of the scenes that lie all round within short walks, and
with the luxurious amenity of the climate. My father
and I took a ride yesterday to Stokeinhead, one of
those which you pointed out. Babbacombe Bay, and
the chain of little coves that connect it with Torbay,
are my favourite haunts.

I expect my brother to come over here, when he has
satiated himself with grauwacke at Minehead ; and then
I expect to know something of the mineralogy round
the bay, which seems worthy of being well examined,
in order to trace the relation which the slate, limestone,
and the horizontal sandstone mentioned by Mr. Playfair,
have to each other. If you can find an idle half hour,
I wish you would take the trouble of telling us what to
look at in this point of view. Have you read my bro-
ther's account of the Malvern hills, which I have been
perusing. Though too ignorant of fossils to enter into
it fully ; it seems to me written with great neatness

^T. 34.] CORRESPONDENCE. g'j'

and plainness, and with considerable candour and im-
partiality between contending systems. I wish you
would have the goodness to give him any advice that
you think would be useful to him, either as an observer,
or as a reporter of his observations. For it is likely
that he will pursue this study in the same way for two
or three years to come, and he has every disposition to
be taught and improved. Do not you think the Geo-
logical Society are in a right track for improving the
science, by collecting minute local descriptions of the
surface of the whole country ? This volume of their
Memoirs contains one or two papers by their traveller.
Dr. Berger; I should like to hear what you think of
them.

You ask me to tell you how I am employing my
leisure. Alas ! I am never systematic in execution,
though abundantly so in my schemes. Besides, the
air and scenery in which I live at present are so agree-
able, that I have hardly done any thing since I came
but drink the light by sun and by moon, and read
Homer. One of my resolutions was to go through the
Iliad ; Greek is always a task for a Scotsman ; and I
rather think I have enjoyed it more here, and read it
more currently, than I could have done in London.
This sea, w^ith its beautiful shores, and the neighbouring
mountain, explain him better than a score of scholiasts.
I have another set of books, to fill me with meditations
of another kind : Machiavel's Discourses on Livy, Mon-
tesquieu's Greatness and Decline of the Romans, Hume's
Political Discourses, and Burke's tracts on the French
Revolution. I have read them at different times, till
they are quite familiar ; but I have never before
brought them together, so as to compare them, and
make them as it w^ere sit in council, in my hearing
upon the same points. My purpose in studying them,

88 CORRESPONDENCE. [1811.

is to apply their reasonings to the awful and desperate
circumstances of our own time, and to apply these cir-
cumstances to their reasonings. I have, besides all this,
brought two other books, which I do not know that I
shall find time to open ; Playfair's Illustrations, and
Paley's Natural Theology.

You thus see my retreat from law and little politics.
In my volume of Hume's Essays there are two which
set me a thinking upon some of your speculations ; that
on Tragedy, and that on the Delicacy of Taste and Pas-
sion, particularly the last. I wish you would examine
the speculations which he has just raised in these two
essays.

Here is a fact for you. A gentleman whom I met
with about three weeks ago, told me he was present at
the execution of a man upon the wheel, at Hanover,
not many years ago. The malefactor was a soldier, his
crime a robbery with atrocious violence. He knew he
was condemned to die, but the manner of his death was
not told him till he was brought upon the scaffold. The
person who gave me the account stood very near him,
when it was communicated to him that he was to be
broke on the wheel. The instantaneous effect upon his
mind was, that he looked at his limbs, his arms, his legs
— one after the other. He submitted to his flite with
fortitude.

Affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLXXVL* TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.

My dear Murray, Torquay, uth Sept. isii.

I am very happy to have got some intelligence,
though indirectly, of your projected journey. Jeffrey I
hear is coming to London, and you are to be his travel-

JEt. 34.] CORRESPONDENCE. gg

ling companion. This is a most agreeable arrangement
for you. You will get to London before the next quar-
terly Report about the King, which has always been a
period of much political gossip, intrigue, and speculation;
and a favourable time for using one's eyes and ears.
The character of the Regent appears to be now tho-
roughly developed ; he has evidently none of the ambi-
tion, good or bad, that his station inspires into all manly
minds ; but is as devoid of activity in public concerns,
as I always believed him to be of public principle. The
life he leads is one of stupid, superannuated profligacy,
which is disturbed by fearful anxieties, lest the public
should discover his habits and haunts : he has been on a
visit to Lord Hertford's, at Ragley, and the newspapers
were all carefully cautioned and paid to make no men-
tion of it. Instead of the business and ardour which
w^ould have been natural to a man in the vigour of life ;
becoming sovereign of such a people as this, at such a
moment of their history, nothing is known of him, but
such languid luxury, and effeminate profusion, as we
read of at Paris, in the last years of Louis XV.

At present he is completely under the management
of the Duke of Cumberland and Lord Yarmouth ; of
the former it is not a year since he used to express
openly the w^orst opinion ; the latter is, by the general
opinion of every body, considered to be one of the
very worst men living, w^holly unprincipled in every
particular, but with considerable talents from nature.
He ingratiated himself with the Prince not long before
the Regency was formed, and assumed the management
of his household expenses and bed-chamber politics.
He will perhaps not have temper or manners to main-
tain his ascendancy very long ; he disgusted many of
the nobility at the fete in Carlton House, by a vulgar

90 CORRESPONDENCE. [1811.

insolence wliicli he could not conceal ; and the Prince is
very likely to discard him on an instant, for some un-
guarded freedom. In the meanwhile he has the direc-
tion of repairs at Carlton House, which are to cost half
a million ; though the Prince means, as soon as he is
Kins-, to remove to Buckingham House, which will also
need repairs.

Let me hear from you soon.

Most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLXXVII. TO JOHN ALLEN, ESQ.
Dear Allen Torquay, 14th September, 1811.

It is very hard to believe that the transactions of
government in Ireland are not in the same character
of a crooked intriguing policy, for the purpose of man-
aging the Prince. Have you any hesitation in thinking
that Opposition ought to take up this matter in Parlia-
ment in the most decided manner, without any more of
that forbearance and reserve which they practised last
session ?

If the Irish judges support their government, in the
construction of the Convention Act, we ought to move
for the repeal of so abominable a statute, and in discus-
sing it have no mercy for the judges. If by any un-
looked-for turn of patriotism, or fear in the judges, they
should construe the act as it seems to me it ought to be,
then w^e shall have a much freer game to play, by an
attack upon the administration alone ; but, in either
event, I feel very anxious that Opposition should go re-
solutely to the attack, without any compromise towards
the Regent. It is not unlikely that Parliament will
meet before the legal question can be decided at Dublin ;

2Et. 34.] CORRESPONDENCE. 91

in that case, ought we not to act without any delay, as-
suming our own construction of the act to be clear and in-
dubitable ? I have not the least faith in any stories of
secret intelligence possessed by government, as to de-
signs on the part of the Catholics ; if government is
sincere, they may have been frightened by the appear-
ance of a little more eagerness among the Catholics,
when they believed the day of emancipation was at
last coming on ; and the show of a little more determi-
nation and system, when they found that day bring them
a fresh disappointment. I am much more inclined to
believe that Percival and the Archbishop of Canterbury
have worked upon Lord Manners, who is a timid man, and
very bigoted. The conduct of the Wellesleys in all this
business is very pitiful, for they have no bigotry on the
subject.

It would appear now, I think, that there is some re-
laxation in the violence of the King's disorder, and that
the height to which it rose two months ago was probably
owing to the heat of the season. As I understand he is
better in health, I begin to think it likely that w^e shall
have the question of restrictions to dispose of in Parlia-
ment ; that will not fail to be a pleasant scene. I suppose
the coronation of his wife is a matter that may be left
to the new king's fancy. If he means any farther in-
dignities, or to impose any hardships upon her, it will be
diso^raceful to the nation to suffer them ; with all her
folly and low vices, she is a stranger ; and though she
has not conducted herself in her disgrace so as to de-
serve any respect, she has already been used very ill.
Remember me to Sydney, if he is with you.

Sincerely yours,

Fra. Horner.

92 CORRESPONDENCE. [1811.

Letter CLXXVIII. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
JVIv cIGcIT MurraV Lincoln's Inn, 23d November, 1811.

I am much surprised to hear that some persons
entertam a doubt, whether GilUes* has done right, in
point of poHtical principle, by his acceptance of the
judicial place offered him by the government. To me
it appears most certain, that the office of Judge in any
of the supreme courts, is and ought ever to be regarded
as entirely independent of political party ; and that
when the ruling party is compelled, either by a just
sense of merit and public duty, or by the utter incapa-
city of their own troop of adherents, to look for Judges
in the opposite band of barristers, he to whom the offer
is made (supposing it to be made without any improper
terms) is perfectly at liberty to accept of it, without
any compromise of his principles upon the management
of public afliiirs, and without any failure of duty to-
wards the political party to which he has hitherto be-
longed. It is a fit question for him to put to himself, no
doubt, on such an occasion, whether he feels inclined
and thinks it right to quit the active duties, very im-
portant and useful ones in every free government, that
are required of a party man, and which are incompa-
tible altogether with the character and station of a
Judge ; but that is a question which he would have no
less to put to himself, and to decide on, if he received
the offer from his own party. It is manifestly for the
public interest, on various accounts, that the patronage
of judicial situations should be uniformly regarded in
this light by barristers of all parties ; and none but the

* See note, Vol. L p. 139.

iET. 34.] CORRESPONDENCE. 93

dunces, that are in the tail of each party, have any inte-
rest in estabhshing a rule to the contrary, which, upon
the part of the men of talents who carry on the business
of the bar, w^ould amount to a self-denying ordinance, of
the worst nature for the public. The principle upon
which Gillies has most properly acted, gives the state
the best chance of having judges who really know the
laws ; and gives us a better chance of the sentiment
being impressed upon them all, that when judges, they
are not party men ; and the differences of political
opinion that will still remain among them, — for they
are not to be required to have no opinions, because they
cease to enforce them by political activity, — will give a
fairer probability of an even and equitable determina-
tion in all state trials or political suits that may come
into the courts of justice. I understand this to be the
established morality of Westminster Hall, and it appears
to be founded on the best reasons of public usefulness
and propriety. The example of so eminent an advocate
as Gillies will sanction and establish the same principle,
I hope, in the Parliament House, which will be a great
benefit to Scotland, resulting from his acceptance of the
gown, as the offer of it to him by the ministers has pro-
duced a still greater benefit, in giving a victory to pub-
lic opinion on the subject of judicial appointments. I
have no doubt you agree with me in all this ; but as
you might possibly be told that a few of our friends
here, but a very few, are factious enough to say that
Gillies might as well have suffered the ministers to go
on making bad appointments, I was anxious that you
should not imagine that I agreed with them. Lord Hol-
land, Abercromby, and Ward, concur exactly in the
same view of it with me : and I mention these three,

94 HOUSE OF COMMONS. [1811.

because they are not likely to agree except where their
joint opinion is the true one.

Yours ever affectionately,

Fra. Horner.

Parliament met on the 7th of January, and the session
lasted till the 30th of Jul}^ Mr. Horner did not origin-
ate any measure, and does not appear to have taken an
active part in any of the great subjects of debate. He
is reported as having spoken on several questions in the
early part of the session; but all that is given of his
speeches, on any of those occasions, occupies a very
brief space in the columns of Hansard.

On the 17th of March, Mr. Percival brought forward
a bill, for the purpose of continuing, under certain amend-
ments, and of extending to Ireland, an act passed in the
preceding session, which made bank notes a legal tender.
It was discussed on the bringing up of the Report on
the 20th of April ; and Mr. Horner is reported as hav-
ing spoken " at considerable length " on that occasion ;
but the report occupies a dozen lines only.

On the 7th of May, Mr. Creevey brought under the
notice of the House the large incomes derived b}' the
Marquis of Buckingham and Lord Camden as tellers of
the Exchequer, although wholly sinecure offices ; and
moved a series of resolutions, the purport of which was,
to reduce, and fix at a definite sum, the incomes of those
officers. The motion was resisted by the government.
Mr. Brand moved, as an amendment, that a committee
should be appointed.

Mr. Horner, on this occasion, said, — "he was desirous
of stating his reasons for the opinion he entertained on

^T. 34.] HOUSE OF COMMONS. 95

this subject. No committee was necessary to prove
what was an nndoiibted right. Had he entertained any
hesitation on the subject, the speech of his right honour-
able friend (Mr. Ponsonby) would have convinced him
of this. Nothing, he conceived, could be so clear, as
that in all regulations for economical purposes, vested
rights must be sacredly protected. If there was even
a solitary precedent, as had been alleged, in the year
1740, in which a contrary line of proceeding had pre-
vailed, still he should hold that to be a bad precedent,
and one which ought not to be followed. No man
could deny the right of the House to regulate, reform,
and even abolish offices ; but still that must be done
subject to regulations. He was prepared to go as far
in regulations which had economy for their object as
any man ; but in doing so, the rights of those having
vested interests in such offices must be kept sacred.
The property of the state was not to be protected at
the expense of private property. All property was the
creature of the law, and equally depended upon it for
protection. If this principle were once broken through
by the House, temptation would grow upon them, and
there would be no end to it. He reminded the House
that such an interference had been one of the steps,
taken by those frenzied politicians in a neighbouring
country, to whom it was to be attributed, that that
country had so long been the prey to anarchy, and
every other description of horrors." The motion was
negatived by a large majority.

Mr. Horner is not reported as having again spoken
during the remainder of. the session : his attendance had
been very much interrupted by ill health. A dissolu-
tion took place on the 29th of September. The new
parliament met on the 24th of November, and sat till

96 CORRESPONDENCE. [1812.

the 22d of December, when it adjourned to the 2d
of February ; but Mr. Horner was not then a member
of the House.

Letter CLXXIX. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
My dear Murray, Lincoln's inn, 22d January, 1812.

I was unluckily prevented from hearing the
whole of Brougham's speech last night; what I did
hear was most excellent, and the rest, I am told by the
best judges, was still better. He has made an impres-
sion upon both sides of the House much more near the
proportion of his talents and powers, than he had made
by any former exertion of them in that place. He has
done this, too, upon a subject of the first importance,
and which has been waiting some years to be treated
by so able a hand.=-= The time for an adjustment of
that matter with the Crown is not indeed till an actual
demise ; but it w^as desirable to have the ground broken
up, and topics thrown out for discussion among the pub-
lic, that when that time arrives, the public may support
its own interests, and second those who maintain them.
It was objected by some of our critics, that he over-
charged his statements; and it is true that his style
in general has that fault, with another, which is akin
to it, of charging the different parts of his subject and
argument with an equal w^eight of earnestness and em-
phasis.

But the practical purpose to be effected last night,
was not to gain the question, which would have been
a premature success, but to make an impression as to

* On the Droits of Admiralty. Sec Hansard's Debates, vol. xxi. p.
241. — Ed.

JEt. 34.] CORRESPONDENCE. r)*j

the nature and importance of it. Besides this, there
were names and possible cases held out in tenwrm,
which may stop in the mean while some abuses of this
fund that were perhaps meditated. I was told by some
of the members who sat near Lord Yarmouth, that the
words mistress and minion were rung, till he looked
black upon them. Since I came into parliament, I have
heard the Droits of Admiralty spoken of as the private
patrimony of the king, not to be controlled, nor even
inquired into ; but by successive questions and discus-
sions, this doctrine has been utterly exploded, and the
right of the House of Commons to order accounts of the
distribution of it, established in full exercise ; such is the
practical utility of ojoposition.

Yours affectionately,

Fra. Horner.

^ Letteu CLXXX. to the REV. T. R. MALTHUS.

My dear MalthuS, London, 8th February, 1812.

I am very glad it occurred to you, to offer Lan-
caster's committee the sanction of your name as a stew-
ard at our meeting ; and I have written to Joseph Fox,
telling him, that I have reason to believe you would
not refuse to serve in that capacity, if it were proposed
to you.

I entirely concur in your sentiments upon the sub-
ject, that both societies ought to be encouraged ; nay I
go a little farther, for if I could be convinced that the
church would sincerely and zealously set themselves to
accomplish the work of national education, the church
should have the best of my wishes by preference ; inas-
much as I regard the establishment as our best pre-
servative against fanaticism, though I am persuaded it

VOL. II. 9

98 CORRESPONDENCE. [1812.

can only operate effectually to that end, or indeed
subsist long as an establishment, by acting upon the
true principles of the Reformation, of which educating
the common people is the most important. It is impos-
sible not to feel strong suspicions against the sincerity
of all recent converts, especially from a prejudice which
seemed but very lately so inveterate, as that of church-
men against the education of the lower classes. And
even allowing them to be for the present sincere, it is
hard to expect real and continued activity from that
description of persons who have undertaken this charge.
It is right, however, they should have a fair trial ; the
result will speedily appear, for we can only know them
by their fruits : and the public will be ready to hold
them to a strict account, if they cannot, a year or two
hence, give a satisfactory account of the efficient em-
ployment of the large funds which have been put at
their disposal. In the mean time, they cannot crush
the system of Lancaster, whose zeal is as unconquerable
as that of John Knox ; the only thing to be regretted
is, that that zeal should have so large an admixture of
polemic irritability, which begins, I fear, to disgust some
of those persons whose taste is fastidious, and who can-
not, for the sake even of the good that is effected, over-
look the rudeness of the means by which such good has,
almost in every instance of the sort, been accomplished.

Most truly yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLXXXI. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
IMv dear Murrav Lincoln's Lm, 18tli June, 1812.

I would have written to you more frequently,
during the late remarkable transactions in politics, if the

JEt. 34.] CORRESPONDENCE. 99

nature of what passed, or the way m which I obtained
from time to time some knowledj^e of it, had admitted
of any inteUigible communications in an abridged shape.
The apparent changes of conduct succeeded each other
so rapidly, that the story of one day looked Hke nothing
but a contradiction of that before it, though all have in
the end proved to be true. Nor was it possible, while
the thing was going on, to adopt with confidence any
conjecture that seemed to solve such contrarieties; until
the most recent disclosures explained them, by proving
a depth of intrigue, which, upon mere guess, was hard to
be believed. The result has, probably, been an unfortu-
nate one for the country, because an administration with
Grenville, Grey, and some others included in it, might
perhaps have brought about successfully some of those
changes in our policy, both foreign and internal, which
they think so desirable : at the same time, the public
voice would second them so reluctantly in those mea-
sures, and would be so much upon the catch to disap-
point them, if there was any difficulty to be overcome,
that I trembled for my friends and for their cause, when
I thought them upon the brink of an administration, in
which they were preparing to undertake the govern-
ment under such difficulties as the present, without
either court favour or a popular cry. From all this they
are saved ; not by any want of courage on their side,
but by the triumph of inveterate duplicity, and the low
arts of a palace, over an inflexible and proud integrity.
I believe the general opinion to be at present against
the Whigs ; and, with the usual sagacity of the public,
they see nothing but a struggle for a few places, in the
determination not to accept office without power : at
the same time, it is likely enough, that a very sincere
disappointment is at the bottom of this rage ; and the

100 CORRESPONDENCE. [1812.

anger against the Whigs for not accepting the ministry,
carries with it a strong disHke of those who have, and
may produce a reaction.

Being interrupted, I have only time to tell you, that
Canning's motion is put off, in consequence of there not
being members enough before four o'clock to make a
House.

Affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CLXXXII. TO MR. HALLAM.
My dear Hallam, Exeter, 24th July, 1812.

You very kindly enjoin me to give you some re-
port of myself Though not quite robust yet, I have
the satisfaction of considering myself as materially im-
proved in general health ; for which I am indebted to
the regimen which was enjoined me by my medical ad-
visers. By persevering in that, and adding to it exercise
on horseback, which, by constant experience, I find suits
me best, I have little doubt of re-establishing myself in
as much strength as I ever enjoyed.

I go from Bristol into Scotland, by way of the lakes,
that I may pay a short visit to Brougham. I shall re-
main in the north till it is necessary to come to Taunton
for the Sessions ; after which, I shall pass the rest of the
vacation with my family, wherever they may be. At
present they talk only of Hampstead ; but as Hastings
has also been spoken of, and the sea-bathing always does
my mother good, I think it is not unlikely that we shall
go there in the month of October. I should be very
much gratified if our arrangements should coincide,
that I might have the enjoyment of your society away
from London ; but in the busy time of the year, I have

jEt. 34.] CORRESPONDENCE. IQ]

SO little opportunity of being with my family, that I
make it a first object to live one part of the vacation
with them.

I regret very much, that you are not satisfied with
the conduct of Lord Grey and Lord Grenville in their
rupture of the negotiation. It is perhaps a nice ques-
tion of conduct, and one of those in which there is hardly
any other test but success to be resorted to. Upon the
whole circumstances, particularly with what has been
added to our knowledge of them by Lord Moira's subse-
quent conduct, and by Lord Spencer's statement in the
House of Lords, I think their mode of closing the nego-
tiation was the most honourable and upright for them-
selves, though, with a little more reserve, they might
have left it to be terminated with more disgrace to the
Prince. I was prepared, I own at the same time, to
pardon them if they had been less sturdy about the
household, and thought, if there was a possibility of
their getting power, with the views they had of using it,
that they might be defended against the abuse that was
in preparation for them, if they should have yielded to
the Court its pretensions respecting the household. I
am now satisfied, looking back to the whole intrigue,
that they never had any chance of coming into office ;
and am somewhat inclined to apprehend, that the high
tone of personal honour, and the strict stoical maxims
of political conduct, which the present leaders of the
Whig opposition are guided by, in their negotiations
about office, and without the observance of which power
can have but little to gratify such men, are not calculated
to obtain place for them, except in a fiivourable con-
juncture of accidents ; or to win immediate favour for
them with the public, whether they gain the places or
are disappointed. I will not say that nothing of the

102 CORRESPONDENCE. [1812.

peculiarities of temper was to be detected in their
prompt and peremptory manner of negotiating ; but, on
the other hand, they negotiated with all the odds
against them, arising from their integrity and rigid
honour being known to those who intrigued against
them with fewer scruples. Never was there a time, in
my remembrance of politics, which brought out, in so
strong a light, the characters of all the persons engaged
in the transaction ; and I am sorry to say, that some, of
whom I was anxious to form or to keep a high opinion,
such as Canning and Whi thread, sunk a great way in
my estimation, before it was all over.

I tremble, when I think of Spain. Surely, something
more might have been done by us, particularly on the
side of Catalonia, by sending into the Peninsula every
company or troop that could possibly be spared, at the
time that the forces of France are draw^n to such a dis-
tance. Bat Bonaparte and all his army had crossed the
Vistula, before we would suffer ourselves to believe that
the price of corn would admit of his marching at all. I
am very sorry to see such wretched talk in the House
of Commons about the overture of April last ; wdiatever
it might have been reasonable to say about it then,
while Bonaparte was still in Paris, and in our delusion
that he did not think of leaving it, there can be but one
language to hold now, respecting such a j)roposal. Sher-
idan's is nearest the right language ; if he had not
accompanied it with such baseness towards Whitbread,
who has been slaving for a year and more in his private
afflxirs, to get him bread, and committed this ingratitude
for the sake of patching up his ruined reputation by an
address to popular sentiments. Col. Hutchinson's unjus-
tifiable expressions about Bonaparte will be imputed, of
course, to all the Opposition, and very likely to all the

^T. 34.] CORRESPONDENCE. 103

Catholics. It is incomprehensible to me, how any friend
of liberty, as Hutchinson is very honestly, can help de-
testing the very name of this restless barbarian.

Yours, my dear Hallam,
Most truly,

Era. Horner.

Letter CLXXXIII. TO HIS BROTHER.

My dear Leonard, Powderbam, 25th July, 1812.

In consequence of your recommendation, I went
with Adam to see Mr. Poole's village school at Enmore,=-=
having first procured his book and read it. The work
gave me a great prepossession in favour both of himself
and the method of his school : for though I never shall
concede to any one the originality of Joseph Lancaster's
inventions, and think that it is an act of injustice to-
wards him to call Dr. Bell the original inventor, (as Mr.
Poole does in his preface,) yet that preface is written in
such a tone of good sense o,nd genuine benevolence,
that I do not recollect to have met with any composi-
tion, for a long while, that has afforded me a more real
gratification.

Independently of the improvements which he has
added to the general method, his idea of the advantages
to be derived from the mixture of farmers' sons with
the peasant boys in the same school, is one of those
thoughts that show a masterly sense for the business of
life, apparently too simple to have much in it, but, in
practice, fruitful of most useful consequences. The ex-
pectations we had formed from reading the book, were
exceeded by what we saw at the school ; which was

* The Rev. John Poole, Rector of Enmore, near Bridgwater. The title of
the book here spoken of is, " The Village School Improved." — Ed.

104 CORRESPONDENCE. [1812.

indeed a most pleasing and satisfactory spectacle. We
passed near an hour there, and were lucky enough to
find Mr. Poole himself. The achievements of the chil-
dren in working sums by the head were quite astonish-
ing ; but what was of more importance, was the order,
intelligence, and cheerfulness with which the ordinary
business of the school was despatched. I was thoroughly
convinced upon the spot of the good effects, resulting
from the mixture of the farmers' boys with those of
their ploughmen ; the former, who bring a little more
education from home, and stay at the school till some-
what a more advanced age, gain, in the usual competi-
tion of their learning, a superiority which appears to be
owing to nothing else than their fate in this fair rivalry,
while it puts upon the most pleasing footing that differ-
ence which is to last through life ; at the same time,
that the competition, and the level upon which they
are all placed, gives both that just sense of equality
which both ought to be taught, and the teaching of
which in common to boys of the middling and higher
ranks is one of the main advantages of the public
schools of England. I like very much too the putting
girls and boys in the same classes, at so early an age -, it
gives the boys a new spur to emulation, the girls are
usually so much quicker. Of course Mr. Poole's method
will not have the same complete success as at Enmore,
except where a person like himself will take as much
pains. But I am convinced, that the dissemination of
his work cannot fail to do infinite good, both in improv-
ino: the schools where Bell's method or Lancaster's has
already been adopted, and in setting a noble example
to country clergymen of the Establishment, which is
very likely to be followed in many instances.

I suppose it is in vain to remonstrate any more

Mr. 34.] CORKESPONDEXCE. 105

against the sea-voyage ; I wish we could have contrived
to make the journey into Scotland together. We shall
meet at Edinburgh, I suppose, towards the end of
August. I thank Anne for her very kind letter ; re-
member me to her very affectionately, and to my dear
Mary. I am sorry to think that my father is not going
to the sea-side ; it always does my mother so much
good. There is nothing for me to report about the cir-
cuit ; my quarter is at the fag end of it, the week after
next. I have had as usual some driblets of business in
coming along.

Ever, my dear Leonard, affectionately.

Era. Horner.

I finish my letter at this castle, having come down
yesterday with Courtenay.* We go on to Ivy Bridge
to-day.

Letter CLXXXIV. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.

My dear Murray, Wells, 2d August, 1812.

You are quite right not to move from Edin-
burgh, until you have full authority to do so from
your physician. You must wait there till my arrival,
and after that, I should like to have several days of
rest, which it will be better for both of us to pass very
quietly. I trust to your telling me faithfully, that the
cause of your illness is removed ; otherwise I should be
uncomfortable.

I have had the gratification of a very friendly letter
from Brougham, in consequence of which I shall stay a
couple of days at his house ; after that, I leave the

* The present Earl of Devon.

106 CORRESPONDENCE. [1812.

whole distribution of the time I shall pass in Scotland
to your direction. The only engagement I have made
is a visit to Raith/'= which I wish to pay when the Gene-
ral*}* is there. Dunkeld I should like much to see again,
though I like the remembrance of it too well not to ap-
prehend some disappointment. I fancy Leonard will
take Mrs. Horner some way into the Highlands ; and I
think it would not be disagreeable to you, if we could
contrive to meet them somewhere, and pass, one or two
days in that sort of scenery with them. They will be
at Edinburgh in the course of this week, as they set out
to-day ; that is, set sail, for they have resolution enough
to encounter the horrors of so long a voyage. Direct
your next letter to me at Brougham's.

I am not so well acquainted with Sir William Tem-
ple's writings, as I ought to be ; what I know of them
has given me a most favourable impression of his char-
acter. I have been reading, on the circuit, Eulhiere's
history of the troubles in Poland, which is a most inter-
esting work ; full of information with respect to many
of the persons who disturbed Europe on the eve of the
French revolution, and compiled with a great deal of
skill in the narration, and much observation of the arti-
ficial characters that are to be seen in courts and in
diplomacy. I am surprised that such a work has at-
tracted so little notice in this country. It was published
about five years ago, under the auspices of the French
government, the author having died many years before ;
Bonaparte's schemes for Poland are plainly disclosed in
the editor's preface, and very possibly some parts of the
bock may have been touched and coloured to serve

* The scat of Robert Ferguson, Esq., in Fifeshire.
t Lieutenant-Gencral Sir Ronald C. Ferguson.

^T. 34.] CORRESPONDENCE. 107

their purpose : the events of the present campaign
make the subject doubly interesting.

Yours affectionately,

Fiu. Horner.

Letter CLXXXV. FROM LORD WEBB SEY^IOUR.
Mv dear Horner Bulstrode, 2d August, 1812.

Whishaw has just left us. Having had a good
deal of conversation with him upon the subject of your
health, I am become very impatient to see you ; for
your case seems to bear a great resemblance to my own,
and I think I might give you some useful hints, founded
upon my own long experience. A letter, which Whi-
shaw received from Brougham this morning, mentions
your intention of reaching Westmoreland about the
12th. I understood from Murray that your circuit
would finish on the 8th. Now, this allows you only
three or four days for your journey down, and my first
earnest advice is to avoid any such hurry in travelling.
Before this letter arrived, I had schemed a plan for you
far more prudent. I must set off for the North about
the 20th. The Lansdownes are to go this week to
Malvern, and to remain there till September. I would
invite you to come to Bulstrode,'=' and to stay here, in
perfect quiet, till I set ofi^ were there not objections in
the length of the journey eastward, and to. your being
thus brought within the temptations of the busy town.
Let me only say, that if you will come to us, tiith a firm re-
solution to stay, we shall be most happy to see you. I will
however propose another plan ; that you should go from
Bristol to Malvern, and remain with the Lansdownes till I

* Then in the possession of the Duke of Somerset.

108 CORRESPONDENCE. [1812.

come there, and take you up to proceed to the North. I
will set you down at Brougham's, or carry you forward,
as you may like best. With me you will be secure from
all hurry ; and ten days spent in the delightful society
of the Lansdownes will do much to recruit you, after
the fatigues of the circuit, which, I am confident, have
been more than you had strength to encounter. Indeed,
my dear friend, you must not trifle with your complaints.
As I observed formerly, I am not alarmed by them,
except in reference to your situation in life, and your
habits. I well know the pain of submitting to inactivity,
and am equally aware of the necessity of it, in such a
case as yours. If you spend your autumn in rapid
journeys, and a variety of animated conversation with
minds in their full vigour, you will not regain health for
the still more active exertions of the winter. Let me
entreat, and hmst, that you adopt my advice upon the
present occasion. You cannot conceive the imjDortance
I attach to it.

Yours ever affectionately,

Webb Seymour.

Letter CLXXXVI. TO MRS. L. HORNER.
Mv dear Anne Newport in Gloucestersliiro, 8th Aug. 1812.

I begin to wish very much to hear of an event
which I trust has taken place by this time, your arrival
at Edinburgh. I shall not receive the intelligence,
which you will send for me to Brougham Hall, so early
as I intended I should, when I gave you that direction ;
for I have made a small alteration in my plans, which
will keep me a week later in the South. In order to
have the chance of travelling most part of the way
North with Serjeant Lens, I mean to loiter away about

iET. 35.] CORRESPONDENCE. 109

a week, and this sort of rest will be very grateful to me
after the circuit. Where do you think I am going for
this repose ? to your own favourite Malvern ; where I
shall enjoy some of the very walks you used to take,
and examine the hill with Leonard's description of it in
my hand. The Sergeant is to be at Ross for some days,
■with his sister who lives there, and we are to meet at
Leominster : this will give me till next Saturday to stay
at Malvern. I mean to stop at the Wells, and try^o
get rooms of some kind or other, where I can be alone,
for the ordinary of a watering-place is not in the least
to my taste ; not that I mean to be absolutely alone
either, for the Lansdownes went there yesterday, and
have got a house, which you probably know by its
absurd name, Pomona Cottage ; and Lady Lansdowne's
sister. Lady Elizabeth Fielding, has got our friend Mrs.
Beddoes's house. I wash I had fixed upon this scheme in
time to have received your particular instructions for
walks and rides ; for I do not send my horse back to
London till I quit Malvern. When I come to Edin-
burgh, however, I shall compare notes with you. I
have written to Fanny, to bid her send me, if she can
find - one, the separate copy of my dear Leo's memoir,
that I may have it to walk out with. I expect to reach
Brougham about the 20th, or soon after ; your letter
from thence, if you have written to me, will be for-
warded to me. Yours, my dear Anne, very affection-
ately, Fra. Horner.

Letter CLXXXVII. TO HIS SISTER, mSS HORNER.
Mv dear FannV Edinburgh, 9th September, 1812.

Leonard's letter to you more than a week ago
explained to you why I have been so long of writing to
VOL. II. 10

110 CORRESPONDENCE. [1812.

any body. My wrist is now so much better, that I can
write without any pain, though it must be some time
before I recover the free use of my hand. I met with
the accident in riding a little pony, which fell under
me ; and in saving myself, I came with my weight upon
my hand.

I made a very agreeable journey with Serjeant Lens,
the greater part of the way through country which was
new ; indeed, the only portion of it I had seen before
was in Cumberland, from Kendal to Penrith, which it
was very gratifying to see again. We had as fine a day
as could be, and had views of Windermere, Grassmere,
and Keswick Lake, in all their glory. At Keswick we
found Rogers the poet, staying at the inn ; he was good
enough to take an evening walk with us, and led us to
a favourite station of his, which gives the most striking
prospect of the lake. As Murray could not meet me on
the borders, I postponed my visit at Brougham till my
return, when he will accompany me thither ; I only re-
gret that I lost our intended tour through Ayrshire ;
which I must delay till another year.

Since I came to Edinburgh, I have been continually
enjoying the society of my old friends, who have- re-
ceived me with all the affection that is most gratifying.
It gave me a particular pleasure to find Mrs. Murray so
little the worse for seven more years of old age ; she is
a little thinner, but only a little ; in every respect she
is entirely in possession of her faculties and excellent
understanding. Next to Murray I have lived most with
Thomson,* who since I was last here has fitted up a
very pretty house, and put in order his valuable library.
We all spent a very pleasant day at his brother's par-

* Thomas Thomson, Esq.

^T. 35.] CORRESPONDENCE. m

sonage at Duddingstone ; and in the course of the
morning, I went to the top of Arthur's Seat, Avith the
two Thomsons and Pillans ; the last of whom is, I take
it, the most completely happy person in the Kegent's do-
minions ; having found exactly the corner that fits him
in the world, where he can be most useful, and as uni-
versally respected. He has already done wonders with
his school, and will yet do a great deal more : he thinks
of nothing else. I have been for a couple of dnys also
to Hatton, where Jeffrey lives in a great house, and
writes his reviews in a little gilded closet; the More-
head family and his brother make up a household for
him, in which he is perfectly comfortable, being strongly
attached to them all. When I was there, I rode to pay
a visit to Mr. Henry Erskine,'=' who has retired fi'om the
bar, and is living among the plantations he has been
making for the last twenty years, in the midst of all the
bustle of business ; he has the banks of the river Al-
mond for about four miles ; he told me he had thrown
away the law like a dirty clout, and had forgotten it
altogether. It is delightful to see the same high spirits
which made him such a favourite in the world, while he
was in the career of ambition and prosperity, still at-
tending him after all the disaj)pointments that would
have chagrined another man to death : such a tem^jer
is worth all that the most successful ambition could ever
bestow.

My greatest enjoyment in Scotland has been in the
society of Mr. Stewart and Mr. Playfair, who have been
growing younger all the while that their pupils had
been turning grey, and are in such good health and
such ardour of study, that the world will probably have

* The Honourable Henry Erskinc, brother of the Chancellor Lord Er-
skine.

112 CORRESPONDENCE. [1812.

the benefit of many years of their labour. It is a grati-
fication which I enjoy more than I can describe, to be
admitted to the confidence and unrestrained conversa-
tion of two such sages, who first imparted to me a true
rehsh for hterature. They have both many projects :
Mr. Stewart has already a great deal of manuscript
quite ready for the press ; we shall have two volumes
of his Philosophy of the Mind, in the course of next
year. He is printing at present a memoir, which he
read to the Royal Society of Edinburgh, upon the case
of the blind and dumb boy, upon whose eye an opera-
tion was performed by Wardrop ; it cannot fail to be a
most interesting dissertation, in the way in which he has
treated the subject. My vanity will not let me conceal
from you, that he has contrived, from the accident of
my having sent him an old book, to pay me a very par-
tial compliment, in a note to this memoir ; it is not a
little flattering, though I owe it to nothing but his good
nature, to have his friendship for me recorded in writ-
ings which will live as long as those of Cicero and Plato,
and will go down to distant times with their works.'-"
We went to Kinneil, four of us in a landau, (the same I
suspect the bailies go in to the races,) Murray, Thom-
son, Mr. Playfair, and myself The day being very
bright and beautiful, we drove through Lord Rose-
berry's grounds, which are equal to any that I know

* The passage in Mr. Stewart's Memoir, here referred to, is as follows : —
" The work from which these quotations are taken, is a very small volume,
entitled ' DidaacaJocopJniii, or. The Deaf and Dumb Man's Tutor, printed at
the Theater in Oxford, 1680.' As I had never happened to see the slightest
reference made to it by any subsequent writer, I was altogether ignorant of its
existence, when a copy of it, purchased upon a London stall, was a few years
ago sent me by a friend, who, amidst a multiplicity of more pressing enofatre-
ments and pursuits, has never lost sight of the philosophical studies of his early
years."

The works of George Dalgarno, the author of the above treatise, were re-
printed at Edinburgh in 1834 by the Maitland Club, at the expense of Lord
Cockbum and Thomas Maitland, Esq. — Ed.

.Ex. 35.] CORRESPONDENCE. 213

any where for prospects and scenery. The Romillys
came to Kinneil the same day ; next morning all went
away but Mr. Playfair, with whom and Mr. Stewart I
passed an entire day. We went a mile beyond Falkirk,
to see Mrs. Dalzel.

You do not know Mr. Wilson/-' but it has been no
small addition to the pleasure which my visit to Edin-
burgh has afforded me, to see him upon the whole so
well, and so comfortably settled with his nieces, who are
in the best style of Scotch girls. Lord Webb, too, ar-
rived yesterday, and I have written this rambling scrib-
bled letter in his room, waiting till the rain clears off

The weather is painfully uncertain, for it depends
upon the weather now, Avhether Scotland is to suffer
next winter the extremity of a dearth.

I am happy to say Leonard and our favourite Anne
are quite well. They have got a drawing of Mary,
which they think not very like ; but as I have a differ-
ent opinion, they have given it to me ; and with two or
three sittings more, which I mean to have when we
come to town, I shall have it quite like : and if it
should be finished to our satisfaction, I have two pro-
jects about the disposal of it ; one is, to have it in my
study at Lincoln's Lm ; the other, to indulge a grand-
mamma, if she has a fancy for putting it into her bed-
room, in Russell Square. But she must ask this as a
great favour.

Affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

* Mr. George Wilson. Sec Vol. I. p. 196.

10*

]^24 CORRESPONDENCE. [1812.

Letter CLXXXVHI. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.

My dear Murray Clifton, 4th October, 1812.

I had a very agreeable journey with Brougham
as far as Preston ; nothing could be more entertaining,
or in better humour. Indeed, since our old days of
careless fellowship, I haye never known him in so good
a tone of mind, as through the whole of our late visit.
After parting with him, I slept at Chorley, a dirty
hole — Lancashire and manufactures ; I strove to make
it more endurable by a vivid recollection of Dinwoodie
Green. I was repaid for this the following night at
Wolseley Bridge, a country inn of the right English
sort; next morning brought me to Birmingham. All
this journey I performed in a chaise by myself, but an
indifferent sulky species of travelling, unless one has an
interesting book, in which respect I had managed ill. I
tried in vain at Manchester to get the new volume of
Burke's Works, for which I am thirsting, and again at
Birmingham ; and then becoming desperate, I cast my-
self into the mail coach, and, after a whole night of star-
gazing, (for I never saw so fine a sky, or Sirius in such
splendour,) I came here this morning.

I was anxious, of course, to learn upon the spot what
is likely to be the result of Romilly's election, which be-
gins on Tuesday ; upon the accounts which I collected
from several people in the morning, I had formed an
impression, doubtful upon the whole, though inclining
to the favourable side. This evening I have seen him-
self; he entertains scarcely a doubt of success, and
thinks it not unlikely he will stand at the head of the
poll : this is after a very minute scrutiny of all the in-
formation in possession of his committee, who have con-

^T. 35.] CORRESPONDENCE. 115

ducted their canvass and survey of the votes by paro-
chial subdivisions ; Romilly, however, is in all such
things apt to be very sanguine. He does not complain
of any fatigue or irksomeness in the canvass, though he
has had four days of it from door to door ; and they tell
me he does it well.

You will be glad to hear that Abercromby is to be
returned for Calne.

Yours affectionately,

Era. Horner.

Letter CLXXXIX. TO THE REV. SYDNEY SMITH.
My dear Sydney, Bowood, nth October, 1812.

I received your letter at Taunton the other day,
where I was attending the sessions. Your reproaches,
for what you call want of egotism, I take very kind,
and, in return, I use my first opportunity of leisure to
tell you all about myself It is very soon told ; in
those two respects on which you desire information ;
my health is considerably improved ; and I am not to
be in Parliament. I have been very careful and atten-
tive about the former for several months, and am reap-
ing the fruits of this in a more uniform course of com-
fortable easy health and good spirits, than I knew all
last year ; though I cannot describe myself as having
yet regained my former robustness, or the privileges of
a freeman, for I am still under the slavery of medicine
and regimen. As to Parliament, I have no seat, be-
cause Lord Carrington, to whom I owed my last, has to
provide for a nephew, who has come of age since the
last election, as well as for his son-in-law, who, being
abroad, loses his seat for Hull ; and because I have not
money, or popularity of my own, to obtain a seat in the

11(3 CORRESPONDENCE. [1812.

more regular and desirable way. I need not own to
you, for 3'ou would guess as much, that it is some morti-
fication to me to be thrown out of the course, and that
I indulge myself with regretting that I shall no longer
have the opportunity of trying to be useful in the im-
mediate concerns of the public. With the usual repent-
ance that is felt at the close of any state of existence, I
am something sorry and something ashamed, that, dur-
ing the time I had such opportunity, I did so little. As
for the future, I am not inconsolable ; my own resources
for employment and amusement are quite enough.*

(unfinished.)

Letter CXC. TO SIR SA^klUEL ROMILLY.
Mv dear Sir Lincoln's Inn, 15th Oct. 1812.

I feel very painfully our disappointment at Bris-
tol. What annoys me most at present, is my uncer-
tainty about your coming into Parliament at all. I
hope you will not decline a seat, if any of those who
have boroughs should (as I cannot doubt they will) put
it in 3^our power. I know your objection to that mode
of holding a seat in the House ; but as long as the re-
presentation continues on its actual footing, I cannot
agree that a man who knows he can serve the public,
ought to refuse that opportunity of serving them.
While I take so great a freedom as to express this to
you, from my earnest anxiety to see you again in the

* This unfinished letter had fallen accldently among my brother's papers.
I regret that I cannot give even one of the many letters he must have Avritten
to this intimate friend. ' I applied to Mr. Smith, several years ago, to know if
he had any in his possession, and he replied in nearly the same terms as the
following, "which he afterwards used, on a similar occasion, to Mr. Robert Mack-
intosh : — " You ask me for some of your late father's letters; I am sorry to
sav I have none to send you. L^pon principle, I keep no letters except those
on business. I have not a single letter from him, nor from any human being,
in my possession." — Life of Sir James MacJcintosh, voh ii. p. 499. — Ed.

jEt. 35.] CORRESPONDENCE. 117

House of Commons, I can at the same time assure you,
that I should not hold this opinion, if I entertained the
least doubt that such a step could in any degree affect
your public or parliamentary reputation. I shall re-
gard it as one of the greatest public losses, if you are
not in the House this Parliament ; I trust you will not,
by refusing a close borough, compel us to impute that
misfortune to yourself Believe me, my dear sir, with
much attachment,

Very sincerely yours,

Fea. Horner.

Letter CXCI. FROM SIR SAMUEL ROMILLY.
Mv dear Sir Eastbourne, 18th Oct. 1812.

T am very much obliged to you for the anxiety
you have felt about me. I really believe that my
friends feel more sensibly my disappointment at Bristol
than I do myself I certainly was very anxious to suc-
ceed, and, till the third day of the election, I thought
my success certain ; but after that, I soon saw what was
to happen, and had made up my mind to it. It is not a
little fortunate for me, that I have got out of such a
contest without a single occurrence unpleasant to me,
though I had the Tories on the one hand, and Hunt on
the other, anxiously watching to take advantage of any
thing I might do, or any unguarded expression I might
use, which could be turned to my disadvantage. Since
the election was over, I have been reflecting on many
circumstances, which I would not allow to occupy my
mind while it was depending, and which seem to aflbrd
reasons why I should rejoice at my defeat. The Bristol
business certainly Avould, in addition to my other la-
bours, have overloaded me with fatigue, and no doubt

llg CORRESPONDENCE. [1812.

the very West India merchants who most actively op-
posed me, would not have been the most backward in
exactinfj" my services on all occasions. There seems no
prospect, too, that Bristol will in future be ever, in my
time, without a contest, and a long tedious election,
which is to me most hateful. I don't know how suffi-
ciently to thank the gentlemen, who were kind enough
to form themselves into a committee to conduct what
related to my election in London, nor the manner in
which I can best do it. Will you do it for me ? or shall
I write a letter to the chairman ; and, in that case, will
you tell me who the chairman is ? The Bristol com-
mittee I had frequent opportunities of thanking in
person.

I certainly have not made up my mind to refuse
coming into Parliament in the way you mention. My
opinion upon that subject is greatly altered, since it has
become the only legal way in which to me Parliament
can be accessible : there will be time enough, however,
for me to consider what I should do, if any offer were
made me.

I remain, my dear Sir,

Ever and most sincerely yours,

Samuel Romilly.

Letter CXCII. TO LORD HOLLAND.
Mv dear Lord Lincoln's Inn, 19th Oct. 1812.

When I came home, I found a letter from Lord
Lansdowne, in which he tells me of Lord Grenville's
great kindness al)out me. He has written a second let-
ter to Lord Lansdowne, in which he says he has reason
to think that I may be returned very soon after the
meeting of Parliament, in a way that will be agreeable

^T. 35.] CORRESPONDENCE. Hg

to me. I need not say, how much I am gratified by
this unmerited service and attention to me from Lord
Grenville ; and I wish him to know that I am perfectly
sensible of this. But I suppose it is not proper for me
to say any thing to him myself, until the thing is over
one way or the other ; for, either way, I shall feel quite
the same towards him. But I wish you to consider, in
the first instance, claims that are far before mine. When
the Bristol contest was over, I wrote to Romilh', under
an idea that he might object to come in for a rotten
borough, urging him as strongly as I could, not to suffer
a feeling of that nature to stand in the way of his duty
to the public, if he should have such a seat offered liim.
I have heard from him this morning, and I am happy to
find he is not disposed to decline, it. He says, " I cer-
tainly have not made up my mind to refuse coming into
Parliament in the way you mention ; my opinion upon
that subject is greatly altered, since it has become the
only legal way in which to me Parliament can be acces-
sible. There will be time enough, however, for me to
consider wdiat I should do if any offer were made me."
It seems to me so very important on every public ground,
and for the true interests of the Whig party, that Eo-
milly should be brought in, that I thought it right to
put you in possession of his sentiments.

Yours most truly,

Fra. Horner.

P. S. If Lord Grenville's communication to Lord
Lansdowne has any connexion with what you hinted to
me yesterday, pray let there be no doubt whatever left
of my determination to vote for parliamentary reform,
or of the full extent of my democratical tendencies and
opinions.

120 CORRESPONDENCE. [1812.

Letter CXCHI. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
My clear Murray, Lincoln's inn, 21st Oct. 1812.

I received both your letters from Liverpool, and
am much j)leased that you made the exertion of going
there to assist Brougham, particularly as he tells me
you did him an important service in an affair of some
delicacy. His disapjDointment came upon me quite
unexpectedly, for I looked upon his return at least as
certain ; and nothing, except Eomilly's similar disappoint-
ment, has given me greater or more sincere distress. It
is a great public loss, not to have Brougham in Parlia-
ment ; it is rendered greater, by his failing in an attempt,
to which he had been encouraged by the popularity of
his eminent services last summer ; and what aggravates
it as a public misfortune, is, that Canning, the author of
those same Orders in Council, should be elected, with
such triumph, upon the very spot where their ruinous
consequences w^ere most severely experienced. It
seems clearly enough ascertained, that the real cause of
Brougham's failure is the indiscretion of having joined
Creevy with him, and attempted to carry both members
upon the popular interest. It is a mistake which has been
committed over and over again, with the same fatal re-
sult. It is among the very sincere and zealous friends
of liberty, that you will find the most perfect specimens
of wrong-headedness, men of a dissenting, provincial
cast of virtue, who (according to one of Sharp's favour-
ite phrases) will drive a wedge the broad end foremost,
utter strangers to all prudence and moderation in politi-
cal business, who are sensible enough, when they find
themselves in defeat, that it is worse than partial success,
but who, while the thing is in contest, imagine it would

Mr. 35.] CORRESPONDENCE. 121

be a sort of treachery to their cause to accept hi the
first instance a whole half of the object they are con-
tending for.

If Brougham is to be out of Parliament, which I hope
and trust will not be the case, I am very far from being
able to accede to your opinion, that this public loss will
be counterbalanced by advantages to him in a private
point of view, such as ought to take away all regret
from his friends and himself I cannot conceive any
single private advantage he will gain by it, of the least
moment. Money, to be sure, he may make in abun-
dance by parliamentary business ; for that loose, ram-
bling sort of practice is richly paid ; but no professional
fame or science is to be gained in that department -, and
what are a few hundred acres more in Westmoreland
worth to Brougham ? Depend upon it, he will not quit
politics, even for the time he is out of Parliament ; but
will exert his boundless activity in another sphere, and
in other directions, where his exertions will be probably
less advantageous to his own reputation, and to the wel-
fare of the public. I was made quite happy by your
account of the manner in which he took leave of the
contest when it became hopeless ; and I lost no time in
communicating your account of it to such of our friends
in London as were sure to take a proper interest in what
concerns him.

I have some news to give you about myself: as I
have now reason to believe, that very soon after the
meeting of Parliament, when the double returns are dis-
posed of, I shall have a seat in my power, which comes
to me in a manner so perfectly satisfactory and agree-
able to me, that I shall have no hesitation in accepting
of it. I shall give you the particulars, as soon as I am
at liberty ; in the mean while, I wish not to say that I

VOL. II. 11

]^22 CORRESPONDENCE. [1812.

have any such prospect, except to my nearest friends.
I suppose you will regret all this, according to your
former opinions ; which I am far from thinking as erro-
neous as that in Brougham's case appears to me ; but
which do seem to be mistaken upon the whole, though
for quite other reasons. I am in much greater danger
of losing all interest in party politics, than of carrying
those feelings to excess ; and have not the least doubt,
that I could return, with undiminished enjoyment, to all
the pleasures and luxurious tranquillity of speculative
literature. But my choice, if a wrong one, was made
long ago ; and I do not permit myself now to canvass
the propriety of it, but should regard it as a misfortune
to be thrown out of the course in which that choice,
aided by circumstances and connexions, had directed
me.

If thrown out, I shall not find it hard to make up my
mind to the change ; but I would rather go on. A very
slow, and a very quiet walk for a public life, is the only
one for which I feel myself to be fit ; though in such a
one, with steadiness, I hope I may in process of time
find some opportunities of rendering service to the
country. One thing I feel more every day ; that
nothing but the alliance of politics, in the manner in
which I take a share in them, would be sufficient to
attach me to the pursuits of the legal profession, in
which I have little prospect of eminence, and very mo-
derate desires of wealth ; but in which, by possessing
the opportunities of legislative experiment, I do not
despair one day of doing some good. The occasion
has drawn from me too much egotism, which you must
forgive.

Yours ever affectionately,

Fra. Horner.

JEx. 35.] CORRESPONDENCE. 123

Letter CXCIV. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.

My dear Murray, London, 8th Dec. 1812.

I hope Mrs. Murray has not been more indis-
posed again since William left Edinburgh. I heard of
her illness, first from him, and at the same time, as I flat-
tered myself, of her recovery. Pray let me hear how
she is.

There was not the slightest reason to believe that
Tierney was going to Madras ; that he either had
thoughts of it, or had it in his power. Some of the Di-
rectors may have given out that they would be glad of
such an appointment, as they would no doubt have rea-
son to be. But Tierney, whatever faults he may have,
is not the man to take an office of any sort from the
present ministers, or to avail himself of the untrue pre-
text, that an Indian government can be accepted with-
out being held under the actual administration at home.
His being out of Parliament is entirely owing to acci-
dent and bad management, which (I hope) will soon be
remedied.

Brougham's success at the bar is prodigious ; much
more rapid and extensive than that of any barrister
since Erskine's starting, I am going down to-morrow to
hear him in defence of Hunt, which is a cause of great
expectation. I have been present at several arguments
of his in Banc ; of which I should not, to say the truth,
make a very high report ; that is, in comparison of his
powers and his reputation. Great reach and compass of
mind he must ever display, and he shows much industry,
too, in collecting information ; but his arguments are
not in the best style of legal reasoning. Precision and
clearness in the details, symmetry in the putting of them

124 CORRESPONDENCE. [1812.

together, an air of finish and unity in the whole, are the
merits of that style ; and there is not one of those qua-
lities in which he is not very defective. But his desul-
tory reasonings have much force in some parts, and
much ingenuity in others ; and he always proves himself
to have powers for another sort of speaking, and a
higher sort. What I say now, applies only to his ap-
pearances in Banc ; having never yet heard him address
a jury.

How deeply interesting is the Russian war now be-
come ! It seems hardly too sanguine to expect, that the
world is to be set free from bondage, and that the jus-
tice of fortune is at length to be made manifest, in the
signal punishment of the Conqueror, who has so long
harassed the earth and subjugated the fairest portion of
it ; qui res Jmmanas (would we could say) miscuit oUm.
We cannot wish for a more signal vengeance to the
cause of the liberties of mankind, than that he should
fall, or at least lose his purple, in this unsuccessful aggres-
sion upon the independence of a great nation. It will
be no small enhancement of this triumph, if we are
really to enjoy it, because it will strengthen that sense of
security, which is the best fruit of it, that the victory is
due, not to the government of Russia, which would
have long ago submitted, but to the body of the Mosco-
vite people, nobles and peasantry. Surely there is
nothing in history so delightful to read or witness, no-
thing so useful in its example, as the successful resistance
of foreign invaders ; whether it be by the patriotism of
a civilised and free state, or by the instinct of barbarians
and slaves ; whether it be Greek, or Dutch, republicans,
whom we have to admire ; whether it be the repulse of
partitioning confederates by the enthusiastic Jacobinism
of France, or the repulse of French genius, and military

iEx. 35.] CORRESPONDENCE. ]^25

science in perfection, by the brute valour of Russians
and Tartars. How vast will the events of our clay ap-
pear, to those who shall be at a sufficient distance from
them to see their real magnitude ! Will not the march
of the French host to Moscow be judged the very mas-
terpiece of the military art, in point of execution : an
achievement, that deserved no meaner disappointment,
than by the barbaric magnanimity, which the people in-
vaded have shown, in burning the ancient capital of
their empire. One can hardly think of such things and
not use big words.

Wednesday. — The Hunts are convicted -, but not with-
out the jury retiring for about ten minutes. Brougham
made a powerful speech, unequal, and wanting that unity
which is so effective with a jury ; some parts rather elo-
quent, particularly in the conclusion, where he had the
address, without giving any advantage, to fasten the
words effeminacii and coivardice where every body could
apply them. One very difficult point of his case, the
conduct of the regent to the princess, he managed with
skill and great effect ; and his transition from that sub-
ject to the next part of his case was a moment of real
eloquence. Lord Ellenborough was more than usually
impatient, and indecently violent : he said that Brougham
was inoculated with all the poison of the libel, and told
the jury, the issue they had to try was, whether we
were to live for the future under the dominion of li-
bellers.

Yours ever sincerely,

Fiu. Horner.

126 CORRESPONDENCE. [1812.

Letter CXCV. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
My dear Murray, Lincoln's inn, ICth Dec. 1812.

You give me a kind scold for having said no-
thing of myself I have nothing to say but good. My
health is much better this winter than it has been for
two or three years ; I adhere virtuously to my water
beverage ; and if I could keep early hours, I believe I
should never ail at all ; but that is not to be done in
London.

I entirely agree with you in opinion, that the property-
tax, as collected from the farmers in Scotland, must
have a hurtful effect upon agriculture, and is assessed
by an unequal and arbitrary rule. The principle of the
tax in other cases is, that of an assessment upon actual
profits, and rackrent is no criterion of the farmer's ac-
tual profits. I cannot see that there is any greater diffi-
culty in raising this tax from that class of men, by a
requisition from them of their gains every year, than in
the instance of mercantile and professional persons ; on
the contrary, a farmer's income from his proper business
is far more ostensible to his neighbours than those of the
other sort, and his actual rent affords such a check upon
false returns, as would protect the revenue against them
much more effectually, than it protects itself against
them from merchants and men of professions. What
you suggest, — a corresponding committee, including all
the counties, is the most likely method of obtaining
redress, if the matter is taken up by people of respecta-
bility and with resolution. And I should be glad to see
this. Without a previous demonstration of that nature, it
is of no use to call the attention of the House of Com-
mons to it ; it is very difficult to get their attention to

iEx. 35.] CORRESPONDENCE. 127

any thing Scotch. The business was taken up with
much spirit formerly by several of the counties, particu-
larly (I think) Roxburgh ; why did they let it drop ?
You may rely upon me, if you wish me to take any part
about it ; only give me timely information.

There is but one sentiment of condemnation, respect-
ing Lord Ellenborough's intemperate and indecent con-
duct at Hunt's trial. This is not only universal among
the bar, who feel this as a professional concern; but
among laymen, of all political denominations. I have
reason to believe, also, that the other judges regret his
conduct very much. The session of Parliament can
hardly pass over, without some pointed notice of it.

I am delighted to see, at last, another good number
of the Review, worthy of its former name. There
seems to be but one article of montlily politics, which is
too short a life for a quarterly book. Allen is delighted
with the orthodoxy of the review of Leckie's pamphlet,
and says it is the best constitutional article Jeffrey has
ever written. The Miisce Edinenses excite a very irreve-
rent mirth among your collegers, who, instead of being
disposed to give a liberal encouragement to our at-
tempts, seem to regard it as an improper ambition, and
something out of the course of nature for Scotsmen,
even to try such excellence ; I saw Bobus and the
Mufti * snickering together at the very mention of this
title. This scorn of theirs makes me anxious that we
should give them one more Buchanan.

Yours affectionately,

Fra. Horner.

I shall not be returned to Parliament till after the
adjournment ; I expect it in the course of February.

* Mr. Robert Smith and Mr. Whishaw.

128 CORRESPONDENCE. [1813.

Letter CXCVI. TO HENRY HALLAM, ESQ.
My dear Hallam, Salisbury, 7th March, 1813.

I thank you for your very kind inquiries, which
I can satisfy in the fullest manner j for all the symptoms
of my late indisposition are now gone, except the un-
avoidable weakness which must continue for a few days
still. I am taking special care of myself; keeping out
of the way of these piercing winds, and not venturing
to do more than sun myself under a south wall, like a
selfish tortoise, at this season.

When we recollect the diffident language that we
held about the Catholic cause, before the debate came
on, the advantages secured by the late vote seem im-
mense.* We thought for certain that some ground had
been lost since the resolution of the last Parliament,
whereas it is now manifest that we w^ere gaining ground
all along, and that the progress of temperate conviction
has been steady and unremitted. What an illustration
of the benefits of continued discussion, through Parha-
ment and the press, where the great interests of justice
and liberty are the subject of controversy ; and what a
pride it is for England, to have such a controversy lead-
ing slowly but surely to the truth, and to one of the
most signal ameliorations of government in favour of

* Upon a motion of Mr. Grattan, " That this House will resolve itself into
a Committee of the whole House, to take into its most serious consideration
the state of the laws affecting his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects in Great
Britain and Ireland, with a view to such a final and conciliatory adjustment,
as may be conducive to the power and strength of the United Kingdom, to
the stability of the Protestant Establishment, and to the general satisfaction
and concord of all classes of his Majesty's subjects,"

Tlie division was — For Mr. Grattan's motion . . . 264
Against it . » . . • • 224

Iklajority ... 40

Ed.

^T. 35.] CORRESPONDENCE. 129

civil freedom, during the terror and darkness in which
the rest of the world is involved. I look with great
anxiety to the Committee ; not only on account of the
arts which will be employed to embarrass it, but for
fear of the unfavourable impression with which the late
vote may be received throughout the country, even by
liberal men, if it has the appearance of being followed by
difficulties which the ablest men in Parliament cannot
remove. I believe none such exist in the nature of
the measure, though there may be in the habitual
alienation and mutual repugnance which several of
those leaders feel for one another. Yet I would fain
hope, the public spirit, which they all possess, will on
this great concern bring them together in earnest, and
make them feel how much the reputation of all of them
as statesmen is staked, upon their skilful and successful
use of the advantage which an honest vote of the
House has put into their hands, and how the final ad-
justment of this embarrassing claim will clear the great
field of public affairs for other exertions of their am-
bition and patriotism, whether they are to be still
adverse to one another, or shall make an experiment
of acting together. I cannot think that Grattan, and
Lord Grey, and Canning would find it very difficult to
agree upon a plan of emancipation and securities ; and
if they come to the Committee with a plan agreed on,
that Bankes and Bragge Bathurst would find it easy to
disunite them. Though the House, in its present tem-
per, might perhaps be induced to pass a partial measure,
I own it seems to me imprudent in any of the great
leaders of the Catholic cause to think of originating any
compromise of that sort ; they may be forced to accept
at present only part of their claim for the Catholics;
but to preserve the strength of their cause, they ought

130 CORRESPONDENCE. [1813.

to keep it entire, and there is no part of the argument
which it is more important to impress upon the pubhc
mind, than that to do good you must give all.

I am sorry to hear that the negotiation for an ex-
change of prisoners is broke off. What a hint to the
Royal Family is conveyed by Wortley's speech ; it is
like some of the signs that appeared among the Tories,
after the trial of the Bishops.

Yours, my dear Hallam, very truly,

Fea. Horner.

Letter CXCVH. FROM WILLIAM FREEMANTLE, ESQ.
Dear Horner, Stanhope Street, 16th March, 1813.

I wrote a note to you yesterday, not recollecting
you were on the circuit : my object was to speak to
you on the subject of a seat in parliament.

I have reason to know that a seat will be vacant in
the course of ten days, which I am authorised to offer
you, begging you to understand it to be without stipu-
lation or pledge of any sort or kind, saving that which,
of course, you would feel it just to admit, namely, to
resign whenever your politics should differ from the
person who has the means of recommending you to the
seat. The expense will be merely the dinner, which I
rather think does not usually amount to more than 30/.
or 40/.

If this meets with your wishes, I will trouble you to
let me know, as I am sure it has long been an object
with the person whose sentiments I speak, to place you
w^here your character and abilities have before rendered
you so useful ; and it has only been from unavoidable
circumstances that the offer was delayed.

Ever believe me, dear Horner, truly yours,

W. Freemantle.

^T. 35.] CORRESPONDENCE.

Letter CXCVIII. TO WILLIAM FREEMANTLE, ESQ.

Dear Freemantle, E-^*^*^^' ^^^^^ ^''^^••^'^' i^i^.

I have this evening received your letter dated
yesterday, and at the same time the one which you had
sent the day before to Lincoln's Inn. It is a very high
gratification to me to have been supposed in any degree
worthy of the proposal which you have had the kind-
ness to convey to me, and nothing can be more per-
fectly satisfactory to my mind than the terms in which
you have expressed it. I beg, therefore, you will be so
good as to communicate my acceptance of this offer, by
which I feel myself to be so much flattered and obliged.
It will not be in my power to return to London for
some time ; but you will, perhaps, take the trouble of
writing to me, when you can give me further informa-
tion or directions.

Believe me yours truly,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CXCIX. TO LORD HOLLAND.

Dear Lord Holland, London, 20th May, 1813.

Your argument, from the manifesto of the Re-
gency, does not admit of an answer; yet the foolish
people, who manage the No-Popery cause at present,
were all delighted with the appearance of those docu-
ments.

You and Allen must be right, I think, about the ad-
vantage to be derived from keeping the Dissenters and
Catholics on the same footing, so as to give to each the
services of the other in their common cause : though I
was not prepared to go so far as he did some time ago.

132 CORRESPONDENCE. [1813.

that the CathoHcs should not be relieved, if we could
not give the Dissenters at the same time all they ought
to have. It will be a great consolation to Lord Grey,
to find what your sentiments are upon the omission of
the words respecting the Sacrament in the Catholic
Bill ; for his chief apprehension on that point seemed to
be, that you would think the Dissenters ill used by that
omission. For myself, I would rather, I own, have
given the Catholics that farther step, though one ahead
of the Dissenters ; for it seems that we can hardly
expect to obtain our object of complete toleration by
regular approaches, or by skilful management of parties,
but that we must scramble for it, and make the most of
lucky moments, and take as much for any description of
sectaries as the accidents or humour of the day will let
us have. And, indeed, I think, if we had got an express
release from the Sacramental Test to the Catholics, the
argument for granting the same ease to Protestant Dis-
senters would next year have been found irresistible.
However, it will be some comfort for the loss of this, if
it shall have the effect of inducing the Dissenters and
Catholics to pull together.

Have you heard enough of our doings in Sicily, in
March last, to have formed an opinion upon them ?
They have very much the cast of our Indian proceed-
ings with nabobs and rajahs. There are stories of some
arbitrary imprisonments, which I do not like, and both
King and Queen seem to have been treated with more
violence than was warrantable, without doing more :
but I am imperfectly informed about this. Lamb, I
suppose, has come home to give government a full
account of all that has passed.

Ever yours truly,

Fra. Horner.

^T. 35.] HOUSE OF COMMONS. I33

From the time of Mr. Horner's return as member for
St. Mawes, on the 17th of April, to the end of the session
on the 22d of July, he is reported to have spoken on
five occasions, but only very briefly on each.

In a discussion on the affairs of India, on the 14th of
June, Sir John Newport contended, that the preamble
of the bill then under the consideration of the House
should declare, — that the sovereignty of the Crown of
the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland over
the territory and population of India is paramount and
undoubted. Mr. Horner took the same view of the
question, and said, " he considered such a declaration to
be peculiarly necessary, as well from certain assertions
which had been made by an honourable director of the
East India Company in that House, as to a claim of pro-
perty in India,, independent of the Crown, as from seve-
ral publications which had gone forth, affecting to sup-
port the pretensions of the East India Company. But
this declaration was also expedient, with reference to the
claims frequently advanced heretofore by foreign powers,
which claims might be renewed on the return of peace."

Next day Sir Henry Parnell, as chairman of the Select
Commi]ttee on the Corn Trade of the United Kingdom,
called the attention of the House to the report of the
committee, which had been laid on the table. A series
of resolutions had been laid before the House, of which
the two most important were to this effect : — to allow
the free exportation of corn from the United Kingdom,
without duty and without bounty ; and, to allow the
importation of corn under a graduated scale of duties.
Sir Henry Parnell moved, " That the House will imme-
diately resolve itself into a Committee of the whole
House, to consider of the said Report."

VOL. II. • 12

234 CORN LAWS. [1813.

Lord Archibald Hamilton moved as an amendment,
" That the Report be taken into consideration this day
three months ; " and the Chancellor of the Exchequer
having spoken in favour of going into committee, Mr,
Horner said, that " he was astonished that the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer should lend his authority to a pro-
ject like the present. It so happened, that though we
had corn laws in our statute book, we had, in fact, no
corn laws, and that there was the most perfect freedom
in the trade of grain. Now, what was the state of the
country with respect to agricultural improvement ?
The fact was, that tillage had never increased so much,
and that prices had never been before so regular. For
this, if reference was necessary, he would refer to the
Report itself With respect to the supply of grain from
foreign countries, the evil was admitted to be, not in
the supply itself, but in the danger to which it was
exposed of being cut off. Now, it so happened, that at
a time when it was the policy of an enemy to prevent
our supply, and when political circumstances were the
most favourable for such a measure, the amount of
foreign grain imported into this country had been
greater than ever. This Report proved, that in spite
of all the regulations of the enemy, whenever this
country was in want of foreign grain, it could get it.
There were several principles in the Report, with which
he agreed : he had no hesitation in agreeing to exporta-
tion, and the abolition of a bounty. But the discussion
of that night convinced him, that these principles were
merely thrown out by way of conciliation, and that the
main object of the measure was to prevent importation
from foreign countries, except when prices should rise
to the enormous sums stated in the Report. At pre-
sent, he contended, the price of corn was high beyond

^T. 35.] CORRESPONDENCE. I35

example, and was such as to afford a fair profit both to
landlord and tenant. Supposhig the measure of his
honourable friend, the worthy baronet, (Sir Henry Par-
nell,) to be adopted, then would the increase in the
price of grain go on, depending not on the value but
on the depreciation of the commodity. The poor lists
of the different parishes in the country, he contended,
were loaded with persons perfectly able to exist by
their labour, were it not for the high artificial price of
commodities. It was only by those artificial prices that
the poor were prevented from living, without being
burdensome on the community."

The amendment was lost, 32 only voting for it, and
136 against it.

Letter CC. TO LORD GRENVILLE.
My dear Lord, Lincoln's inn, 22d July, 1813.

I flattered myself it would have been in my
power to avail myself of your Lordship's kindness, in
asking me to Dropmore, and that it would have been
in my power to have proposed a visit to your Lordship
before going the circuit ; but I have been so much occu-
pied, that I shall be under the necessity of setting out
for the West of England, without having that gratifi-
cation.

A singular political event, and one not very intelli-
gible, was announced last night ; that Canning has for-
mally, and with some solemnity, disbanded his party ;
telling the gentlemen who have been his supporters
during the session, that they may for the future, consi-
der themselves as unengaged ; and that he is no longer
to be regarded as their head. Ward says they are all
turned adrift upon the wide world, but as he has stayed

136 CORRESPONDENCE. [1813.

a year in his place, he thinks himself entitled to a good
character from his master. He had his discharge from
the mouth of Canning liimself, the day before yesterday ;
and the same notification was made to Mr. Robert Smith
yesterda}^ The only other circumstance I have yet
heard, connected with this strange incident, is, that
Wellesley Pole has been complaining very much that
Canning did not bring matters to bear with the ministry,
and that he is now considered both by the Marquis his
brother, and by Canning, as perfectly free to do w^hat
he can in that way for himself Whether this is a deep
measure, or the sudden effect of some ill humour ; and
whether Canning, in reducing his establishment thus ab-
ruptly, points towards Government or Opposition ; I have
heard nothing yet that enables me to guess. But very
erroneous ideas these men must have of party connexion,
or indeed of political morality, who consider their par-
liamentary associations as held together and as disso-
luble without any reference to opinions.

I dare say your Lordship will receive from others a
more correct and particular account of this occurrence ;
but it is so odd a one, and so much deserves to be well
understood and watched, that I have taken the chance,
by my report of it, of contributing to give your Lord-
ship a full account.

I beg you will present my compliments to Lady Gren-
ville, and am ever,

My dear Lord,

Most sincerely and faithfully.
Yours,

Fra. Horner.

^T. 35.] CORRESPONDENCE. I37

Letter CCI. TO LADY HOLLAND.

Dear Lady Holland, London, 23d July, 1813.

I delivered your message to Whishaw, and he will
bring me to-morrow; when I hope we shall find you
better. What do the judges of such things say to the
Speaker's harangue/^ which seems very much out of the
ordinary course ; and is more like the panegyrics which
the French government pronounces upon itself by the
mouth of a senator or tribune, than the propriety and
reserve that ought to be adhered to by the president of
an assembly really free. That part of it which refers
to the Catholic question, considering the numbers of the
vote and the circumstances under which it was notori-
ously procured, is out of all decency. Have you heard
any thing more of Canning's abdication ?

Yours affectionately,

Fra. Horner.

* The Speaker, (Mr. Abbot, afterwards Lord Colchester,) after stating that
a financial plan had been devised and executed to postpone or greatly mitigate
the demands for new taxation, and that measures had been adoj^ted for the
future government of the British possessions in India, which would combine
the greatest advantages of commerce and revenue, and provide also for the
lasting prosjjerity and happiness of that portion of the British Empire, thus
continued : —

" But, Sir, these are not the only subjects to which our attention has been
called: other momentous changes have hQan proposed for our consideration.
Adhering, however, to those laws by which the Throne, the Parliament, and
the Government of this country are made fundamentally Protestant, we have
not consented to allow, that those who acknowledge a foreign jurisdiction,
should be authorised to administer the powers and jurisdiction of this realm ;
willing as we are, nevertheless, and willing, as I trust we ever shall be, to
allow the largest scope to religious toleration." — Hansard's Debates. — Ed.

12*

138 CORRESPONDENCE. [1813.

Letter CCH. FROM LORD GRENVILLE.
My decar Sir, Dropmore, 25th July, 1813.

It is a great disappointment to us not to have the
pleasure of seeing you before you set off for the West.
I hope you will make this place in your way, on your
return, if you possibly can.

Living in a time of strange events, yet I have been
seldom more surprised than by that which you mention
in your letter. What I most lament in it is, the discre-
dit which it throws on all party connection, the uphold-
ing which, on its true foundation of pubHc principle, I
take to be essential to the benefit of a parhamentary
constitution.

Otherwise the mere fact of a party being thus dis-
solved, shows abundantly it could exist to no good pur-
pose. How Pole is to come into ofi&ce I do not well
understand, as his pretensions are said to be so high.
Canning, if he is to be had singly, would I suppose be a
very desirable acquisition indeed to a government so
unusually weak as this is in House of Commons' debate.
Ever, my dear Sir, most truly yours,

GREmiLLE.

P. S. I have been not a little surprised by the Speak-
er's speech, if we are to take the newspaper report of it
as correct. Does your recollection furnish you with any
instance of a Speaker remarking to the Throne on
motions made, hit rejected, in the House of Commons.
How is the King (or Prince Regent) to know that such
matters passed there ? and what authority has the
Speaker to assign grounds of such decisions ?

JEx. 35.] CORRESPONDENCE. 139

Letter CCHI. TO HIS SISTER, MSS ANNE HORNER.*

My clear Nancy, S*''"'"' -'^ ^"S"^*' i^^^-

I had the pleasure of receiving your letter at
Winchester. It was very kindly done of you and Fanny
to take advantage of my mother's absence at Kentish
Town, to save her as much as possible of the irksome
labour she would have undertaken had she been at
home. It is a very melancholy event this to me ; for I
shall be the greatest sufferer, by losing my home, and
being left to my solitude in Lincoln's Inn. But I trust
your absence will not last longer than the winter.f

I made a pleasant excursion to the sea-coast from
Winchester on Saturday. I set out early enough to ar-
rive to breakfast at Cuffnell's, old George Rose's, where
I had appointed to meet his son William. Old George
has got a very comfortable and pretty place, and was all
over civility and sincerity : he has built a large room
for Lord Marchmont's library, and there are a few origi-
nal portraits that were left him likewise, the best of
which is Richardson's of Pope, the same that is spoken
of somewhere by Sterne ; there is a daub of Lord Bo-
lingbroke, and another of Sir William Windham, but
apparently good likenesses ; the former I knew at once,
from the bust I have seen at Lord Egremont's, and the
latter is like all the family of the Grenvilles. I went
with William Rose in a gig to his house at Muddiford,
near Christ Church, and passed a very agreeable day :
he has much literary conversation of all kinds -, he had

* She married, in 1821, Major William Power, of the 7th Regiment of
Dragoon Guards.

t His father left London, and again fLxed his residence in Edinburgh. —
Ed.

140 CORRESPONDENCE. [1813.

a great deal to tell of his travels last year, which he
undertook for the recovery of his health, in the course of
which he saw Sicily, Constantinople, and the plain of
Troy. At Muddiford he has built a fanciful house, close
to the beach, and except that he has made a library
with a Grecian fagade, it is not very different in appear-
ance from the habitation of Robinson Crusoe.

I came here yesterday by Ringwood and Fording-
bridge.

Yours, most affectionately,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCHI.* TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
Mv dear MurraV Cheltenham, 31st August, 1813.

I am very anxious to know in what manner Jef-
frey's expedition has been affected, by a letter from the
Under Secretary of State addressed to Liverpool, which
was in the newspapers a day or two since, prohibiting
all British subjects from going in the cartel, and all
American subjects except the prisoners. In the present
circumstances, I hardly know which to wish about this ;
that he should be compelled to yield to an overruling
command, or that he should at any risk execute his
scheme without farther delay.

Will you have the goodness, also, to give me some infor-
mation with res^Dect to the state of the Review, you being
one (I am told) of the Commissioners for executing the
ofl&ce of Editor, during the absence of King Jamfray
beyond seas. If possible, I wish to make some contri-
bution to the next number, because he particularly ex-
pressed a wish that I should, and that is my reason for
passing next month, as I propose, in London, instead of
coming to Edinburgh, which upon my father's journey

^T. 3G.] CORRESPONDENCE. 14]

thither being determined upon, I felt much inclination
for. When is it necessary that articles should be ready
for the next number ? and can you suggest any thing
for me to do ? There are a great many subjects which
I should be very averse from being known to write about
anonymously, and almost all remaining subjects are be-
yond my means of information. If you could devise
two or three short easy articles for me, that is what I
should like best. Is there any new work, a mere analy-
sis of which would be thought passable, such as Eustace's
Travels in Italy ? or must the evil fashion of the Review
be still adhered to, of writing dissertations beside the
work ?

I took so much exercise in the course of the circuit,
and rode about so much to see the country, that I read
little or nothing. I brought two Greek plays with me,
the Hippoly tus and the Heraclida) ; but I only read the
first in a very cursory way. Before we meet, I shall
perhaps have done a little more, so as to be able to go
over with you some parts of Euripides. I am taking
for granted, that I shall find you in October : w^ill it be
so ? My time at Edinburgh will be uncomfortably short,
for I can hardly leave Taunton before the 8th of that
month, and I must be in London again as early as the
4th of November. From what my sisters say, I am
happy to think that Playfair will probably be at home
about that time ; and as I know that Thomson is
seldom absent from Edinburgh, I am only anxious about
Mr. Wilson's return, for I have heard some hints of his
intending a very long stay at Aberdeen.

I came here upon Lord Webb's summons, and was
very glad to have an opportunity of paying a visit to
Lady Carnegie ; Seymour and I are domesticated in her
house, and he is at this moment receiving a lesson on

142 CORRESPONDENCE. [1813.

the pianoforte from Miss Christina, under a very agree-
able illusion that he is thereby contributing to his philo-
sophical stores. I like them all extremel}^, and the
more for the many recollections that they have of you.
My affectionate regards to Mrs. Murray ; I am very
happy to think that I shall see her so soon.

Ever yours truly,

Era. Horner.

Letter CCIV. TO fflS SISTER, I^^SS HORNER.

My dear Fanny, Buistrode, oth Sept. i8i3.

I did not leave Cheltenham with Lord Webb till
yesterday, and we came no farther than Oxford, where
w^e slept. The morning unluckily was not favourable
for going about, but we lounged a little among the
venerable buildings. I shall stay here to-morrow ; Ro-
gers, and Mr. Stewart of Glasserton,=== are of the party.

I spent a most agreeable ten days at Cheltenham ;
from the first day I felt myself in a family party. We
spent the whole day at Lady Carnegie's house at Bay's
Hill, about a quarter of a mile from the town ; by the
whole day, I mean beginning with breakfast, and keep-
ing it up till past midnight. In the morning as many
as were disposed made out a ride or a long walk, before
and after which there was some loitering under those
old trees, and in the evening, after a genuine "four-hours "
all round a table, we had music and waltzing ; we, I say,
for after some morning lessons from Miss Elliot, I was hardy
enough to attempt to swing, "and mocJc'd all tune, and marr'd
the dancers sMlir In the course of our rides or walks,
we saw the old abbey church at Tewksbury, the ruins

* Now, The Right Hon. James A. Stewart Mackenzie : the present Lord
High Commissioner of the Ionian Islands.

^T. 3G.] CORRESPONDENCE. X43

of Sudely Castle, where Queen Catherine Parr lived,
after her second marriage, and the ancient house of
Squire Delabere, who, at eighty-three years of age, lives
with a brotlier and two sisters, all very old, and all un-
married, being the last of a family which dates from the
Conquest, and had a knighthood in it, for saving the
Black Prince at Poictiers.

London, Sejdembcr IWi. — So much of a letter was
written to you last Thursday evening ; the two days
after that, which I stayed at Bulstrode, were consumed
upon some imavoidable letters of business. I came
yesterday to town with Rogers, a very entertaining com-
panion at all times, by the original remarks he has been
storing up all his life about the ways and modes of Lon-
don, and the characters he has seen in it ; and, when he
is in the humour for showing his own real sentiments,
an amiable and enlightened companion, as I found him
yesterday.

I meant in that letter to have given you some account
of the very agreeable ladies I passed my time with at
Cheltenham ; I might refer you to Murray for his opin-
ion of Lady Carnegie, for through him I have known
something of her for several years ; but you may tell
him that he had not exaggerated any thing in the praises
he often bestowed upon her. She is an instance of the
best Scotch female manners, affability, sincerity, a turn
for speculation and inquiry, sprightliness of understand-
ing as well as manner, united with a great relish for
humour, and considerable execution in that way, and all
refined and regulated by natural good sense, and the
experience of good company. There is not a word of
panegyric in what I am saying ; it is but a very imper-
fect likeness of her. Nothing can be more delightful
than to find such a character at the head of a very

1^4, CORRESPONDENCE. [1813.

large family, and to see all the cares and anxieties it
must occasion borne so gracefully. I must not allow
myself to write with the same truth of the young ladies,
lest you become censorious ; you have some notion of
my taste, and what I require to be pleased, and will
therefore guess that I should not have been so much
gratified as I was, if I had not, besides an unusual degree
of information, and that use of accomplishments which
gives an air of elegance to common sense, and to good
feelings, found in them a cheerful activity, and polished
unaffected manners. This is what they have in conimon :
they all differ however in character.

I am glad to hear you are reading regularly, — I
should like much to know more particularly what your
schemes are in that way. Besides the usual chances of
new books and periodical publications that must be
read as they are passing, in order that you may be up
with other people in conversation, and indeed to profit
most by conversation which derives excellent topics
from these materials, I strongly advise you to have
some settled plan of your own for the winter, in which
a little may be done every day, by which a great deal
will be found done at the end of the campaign, some
one subject to be mastered thoroughly, by reading the
best of all that relates to it, and keep it a secret to
yourself, and Nancy, and me ; for talking spoils all such
undertakings, and cuts them short. If you take one,
and Nancy another, there will be information upon
both, for both of you, when you want it ; and for me,
too, when we all live together again; and one little
scheme of that sort, fairly and well executed in the
course of the year, will, at the end of two or three
years, leave you in possession of more than you can
dream of at present. While it is going on, nothing is

iEx. 3C.] CORRESPONDENCE. 145

SO satisfactory as to have that regular occupation to
lean upon as a resource, for a portion of every day. I
seem to have written you a monstrous wise letter in
the latter part of it ; for fear of getting too deep into
the prosing line, it is high time I should stop.

Yours affectionately,

Fra. Horner.

Lettek CCY. to J. a. MURRAY, ESQ.

My dear Murray, 1^°"^°"' -^^^ ^^P*- 1^^^-

I approve highly of your scheme, and shall have
greater pleasure in the visit I have promised at Minto,
by meeting you there. About the 12th or 13th I ex-
pect to arrive in that part of the w^orld ; though this is
a little uncertain, for I cannot say to a day wdien the
Sessions will be over. My visit must be a very short
one indeed, for I am anxious to be in Edinburgh, and to
pass as much as possible of the time I shall be in Scot-
land with my family.

I am impatient to have a talk with you about con-
tinental politics ; about which, my w^arlike feelings have
now spread from Spain to Prussia. It seems certain,
that the immense loss of veterans and officers in the
Kussian campaign has, for a long time to come, im-
paired the vigour of the French soldiery ; and also, that
there is at last a strong national spirit roused into action
in the north of Germany. The independence of those
nations may yet be restored ; and the Continent saved
from that military despotism which two years ago
seemed irresistible. But there are a thousand things to
discuss, before you will allow me to acquiesce in this
conclusion, I know ; I am the more anxious to be kept
right, because I suspect many of our Whig friends do

VOL. II. 13

l^Q CORRESrONDENCE. [1813.

not move so fast as I have been going for the last six
weeks. What a singular fate is Moreau's ! The loss of
his advice to the allies, an incalculable injury. His mili-
tary fame will probably be heightened with posterity, by
the last passage of his life, not only for the confidence
which Europe felt in his name, but for the greatness of
that design with which he opened the campaign. His
moral reputation is, according to my sentiments of such
conduct, stained with guilt, by taking arms against his
country ; though there are casuists, and I know some
rigid ones, who deny there is any indefeasible alle-
giance, and hold him to have been absolved by banish-
ment ; I cannot, however, see it in that light ; and his
joining the allies, like a Swiss, or a Condottiere, whe-
ther excited by hatred of Bonaparte or by love of arms,
strikes me as one of the many instances which the
French Revolution affords, though on occasions mostly
of a different sort, of that deficiency of moral principle
without which no historical greatness is to be attained.

Ever yours affectionately.

Era. Horner.

Letter CCVI. TO JOHN ALLEN, ESQ.
Dear Allen Edinburgh, 25th Oct. 1813.

Your account of the view which Lord Grenville
is expected to take of Continental affairs, in a speech
upon the first day of the session, has relieved me from
an anxiety which I felt on that subject; for I have had
fears, that we were to make the same false step respect-
mca this German war, that has been so fatal to the
party, and deservedly so, with respect to the Spanish
cause. That the financial difiiculties of the country
will be increased by our embarking so deeply with the

^T. 36.] CORRESPONDENCE. I47

allies, as I think we ought to do, is true, and ought not
to be disguised ; that the sanguine expectations, pro-
fessed by the friends of government, of a speedy settle-
ment of the affairs of Europe, have apparently no just
foundation in the present aspect of them, ought like-
wise, in my opinion, to be stated : but I cannot hesitate
now in believing, that the determination of the French
military force, and the insurrection of national spirit in
the North of Germany, form a new conjuncture, in which
the Whigs ought to adopt the war system, upon the
very same principle which prompted them to stigmatise
it as unjust in 1793, and as premature in 1803. The
crisis of Spanish politics in May, 1808, seemed to me
the first turn of things in a contrary direction ; and I
have never ceased to lament that our party took a
course, so inconsistent with the true Whig principles of
continental policy, so revolting to the popular feelings of
the country, and to every true feeling for the liberties
and independence of mankind. To own that error now,
is a greater effort of magnanimity than can be asked
for ; but the practical effects of it Avill gradually be re-
paired, if a right line of conduct is taken with respect
to German affairs.

Give my kindest regards to Lady Holland. I received
Lord Holland's letter.

Ever faithfully yours,

Era. Horner.

Letter CCVII. TO LORD WEBB SEYMOUR.

My dear Seymour, Edinburgh, 26tli Oct. 1813.

I received your letter of the 14th instant, and

took it very kind that you gave me some account of

the proceedings of our Berkeley Street party, after I

]^48 CORRESPONDENCE. [1813.

left it ; in the fate of which, and all its doings, I felt so
lively an interest. Those few days, and the week w^e
passed at Cheltenham, continue to afford me much
o-ratification in the recollection of all we enjoyed, and
in the confidence that I have added to the number of
my friends Lady Carnegie and one or two of her daugh-
ters. It was a very pleasing sequel to the period we
had spent together, to have a couple of days at Minto,
to communicate my impressions to Lady Anna Maria,
and compare them with her judgments of her friends,
which are so discriminating, and yet so affectionate.
Your guess was correct by halves, as to my occupations
at Minto ; the state of Europe I discussed with William
Elhot, and found we entirely coincided in our view of
the new conjuncture wdiich marks the present year, as
well as of the conduct which ought to be pursued in
parliament with regard to it. My notions I had imper-
fectly communicated to you before ; it was delightful to
me to have them cleared, and raised, and confirmed by
Elliot's sagacious and comprehensive ideas.*

I spent the best part of two days at Kinneil last
w^eek ; my two sisters, Playfair, Murray, and Thomson,
formed the party. You will understand that I was
highly gratified ; with nothing more, however, than to
see them both so well, particularly Mr. Stewart, whose
robust and tranquillised health makes me hope to see
him live to the age of Plato, and continue writing to
the last. 1 had 472 printed pages of his new volume f
in my hands, ran through a considerable portion of it

* The Rigbt Hon. William Elliot, M. P., a relative of the Earl of INIinto.
He was the intimate friend of Mr. Burke, Mr. Windhaoi, and Dr. Lawrence ;
and -was much beloved and respected by all who knew him. When the Duke
of Bedford was Lord Lieutenant of Ireland in 1806, Mr. EUIot was Chief
Secretary. — Ed.

t The second volume of the Elements of the Pliilosophy of the Human
Mind.

JEr. 36.] CORRESPONDENCE. ]^49

cursorily, and read one or two chapters with ease ; par-
ticularly one, in which he has placed the doctrine of the
Nominalists, with regard to general ideas, in so striking
and clear a light, that no conceptualist, I think, w^ill
any longer surmise that there is any shadow of a gene-
ral idea ; he has been remarkably fortunate in illustrat-
ing the use of signs in reasoning, by tracing the history
of a student's mind, as he learns the first book of ele-
mentary geometry. We shall hear, however, what Dr.
Thomas Brown has yet to say for the conceptualists ;
Playfiiir, I was surprised to find, leans to the same
heresy. It seems probable that Stewart's remarks upon
the writings of Aristotle, and upon the use which has
been made of them in modern times, will excite a little
commotion, and do a little good at Oxford. They will
still make some fight for Dr. Aldrich ; but he is fast on
his way to the catacombs. If the Stagirite himself
could be inovolced to hear such things, he would, I make
little doubt, be far more proud of Stewart's estimate of
his merits, and of the ground on which he rests his fame,
than of all the devotion of all the doctors in convo-
cation.

Yours ever affectionately,

Era. Horner.

Letter CCVIL* TO THOMAS THOMSON, ESQ,
Dear Thomson, London, November, 1813.

Allen is very angry, and I own with some rea-
son, at a typographical blunder in the first page of his
review of Marina's work on the ancient legislation of
Spain. His character of Mariana the historian is ren-
dered useless and unintelligible, by the name being
erroneously printed four times as if it were the same

13*

150

CORRESPONDENCE. [1813.

with that of the author of the work reviewed. You
must set this right by putting it in as marked a manner
as can be, into a table of Errata at the end of this

number.

I have read only Mackintosh's two articles, which
contain many brilliant passages, and some original
speculations. The critique on L'Allemagne is an article
of much interest, not as a judgment of that work, but
as a specimen of Mackintosh himself; not a favourable
one, I must own, in some respects ; particularly in the
bad faith, which scarcely hides itself, in what is said
upon the subject of rehgion. It is very much to be
regretted that the Edinburgh Review, " that scourge of
impostors, the terror of quacks," has upon this occasion
laid by its thunders ; when a work was before that
tribunal which is calculated to make way for whatever
it contains by the reputation of the author, as well as
by the genius with which some parts of it are written,
and which contains much that is repugnant to good
sense and rational morality, as well as vicious in point
of feeling. Jeffrey, however, himself set the example,
in his account of the same author's work upon litera-
ture. Much and lasting injury will be done, wherever
the Edinburgh Review is read, by the unqualified ap-
probation which it will be understood to have bestowed
upon a great deal of nonsense, that looks like fine writ-
ing, and a great deal of paradox, artifice, and exag-
geration that pretends to the character of good feeling.
Yours, my dear Thomson, in great haste,

Most truly,

FiiA. Horner.

^T. 3G.] CAPITAL PUNISHMENT. 151

Parliament met on the 4th of November, and sat till
the 20th of December, when an adjournment took place
to the 1st of March ; and on that day, in consequence
of a message from the Prince Regent, there was a far-
ther adjournment to the 21st of March.

From the commencement of this session, Mr. Horner
took a more active part in the business before the
House. He is reported as having spoken frequently,
and his speeches are given at greater length in the
reports of the debates.

Government brought in a bill on the 29th of Novem-
ber " For continuing an Act for the inflicting the pun-
ishment of death on all persons convicted of mali-
ciously breaking lace and stocking frames, or cutting
any lace or stockings in such frames." Mr. Horner
strenuously opposed this measure, in several stages of
the bill : he contended, —

" That there was no plea of necessity for the continu-
ance of so cruel a law. There might be circumstances
which would render that an offence at one time which
would be quite innocent at another ; as, for instance, an
act had once existed against drinking healths, because
that was a badge of hostility to the Crown — the sign
of a disloyal conspiracy. The cutting of stockings or
lace might two years back be deemed a capital offence,
because such was the conduct of a dangerous combina-
tion ; and yet such cutting might be consistently met at
this day by a much less severe punishment, because the
combination had ceased to exist. He could see no rea-
son for retaining the capital punishment in the act
under consideration : in point of fact, this act had never
been enforced, either at the commission or elsewhere,
the delinquencies which the act professed to have in

152 INSOLVENT DEBTORS. [1813,

view being all met by the old established laws of the
land. By that law he Avished the country to be go-
verned, and it was quite disarranged by such statutes as
that under discussion. Such statutes, indeed, as were
too severe in comparison with the offence against which
they professed to provide, only served to put the inge-
nuity of the judges in action, in order to evade them."

The Attorney-general (Sir William Garrow) having
said, in an after stage of the bill, on the 6th af Decem-
ber, that the diminution of the punishment would be at
the discretion of the judge, Mr. Horner observed upon
this, — " That the House knew but too well the practice
that had prevailed on this subject. The recent discus-
sions on the proposed repeal of some of the old statutes
had put them in possession of it. In the times when
those statutes were passed, a more extended discretion
might be necessary ; but was it to be endured, when
passing a new penal law, that parliament should be
told, ^ Make the punishment as severe as you can ; the
judges will take care that it shall seldom be inflicted ? '
He had always thought that it was the peculiar praise
of the British law, possessing as we did judges of great
wisdom and unimpeached integrity, that, nevertheless,
their discretion, in cases of a criminal nature, should be
narrowed as much as possible. In the best works on
jurisprudence, it had always been laid down as a princi-
ple, — that, although the quantum of punishment might
sometimes be left to the discretion of the judges, the
description of it should always be regulated by the law.'*

A bill to amend the law relating to insolvent debtors,
particularly as to the discharge of them when in prison,
was read a third time on the 7th of December. Mr.
Seijeant Best '•• proposed the introduction of a clause to

The present Lord Wynford.

jet. 3c.] insolvent debtors. 153

extend the benefits of the bill to debtors not in prison ;
or, not going to prison, who were insolvent, and could
satisfactorily prove that their insolvency was the result,
not of criminal extravagance, but of inevitable mis-
fortune.

Mr. Horner resisted the proposal of the learned Ser-
jeant: he said, — "He was not prepared to say that
there might not be great wisdom in the adoption of
such a proposition, but it was an innovation on the ex-
isting law of such an extent, as to require a great deal of
consideration; and he w^ould take upon himself to as-
sert, that a more novel or a more daring innovation on
our jurisprudence had never been proposed, either in
that House or elsewhere. It was very true that there
were cases, in which insolvency could be traced only
to an extraordinary concurrence of calamitous circum-
stances, and in which the insolvent person was wholly
free from blame. At the same time, it was well known
that those cases were of rare occurrence ; and that the
task of distinguishing between such cases and cases of
an opposite description, was one of the most unfit duties
that could be imposed on courts of justice. For what
were the objects that courts of justice must consider, in
an investigation of that nature ? They must examine
the whole history and circumstances of a man's life,
from his commencement in business, until the period at
which his affairs might be brought before them ! They
must inquire into all his connections — they must ascer-
tain all his resources — they must investigate all his
modes of expenditure — they must trace him through
all the ramifications of his manners, and habits, and
occupations. Even if a moral tribunal were constituted
for such a purpose, it would be found inadequate to its
execution ; but that a person, possessed of such legal

154 POOR LAWS. [1813.

knowledge and experience as the honourable and
learned seijeant, should think of making it a matter
of judicial proceeding, did, he confessed, not a little sur-
prise him. He repeated, that the cases were rare in
which insolvency was attributable solely to misfortune.
More or less of indiscretion and criminality was usually
mingled with the cause ; and, in his opinion, it was
much better to leave the determination on this subject
with those individuals with whom an insolvent person
had now to deal (his creditors) than to submit it to any
tribunal W'hatever, moral or judicial. Those individuals
had the best opportunities of knowing, from their ac-
quaintance with the debtor, whether or not his conduct
had been culpable or otherwise. The honourable and
learned serjeant, however, seemed not to think so ; and
all at once, on the third reading of the bill, he proposed
a clause, declaring that an insolvent person, who could
show that he had become insolvent from misfortune
alone, and who had surrendered all his effects, should
be discharged without an hour's imprisonment — with-
out affording the time required to make the necessary
arrangements attendant on all insolvency, and in which
arrangements the insolvent person was frequently as
much interested as any other person." The clause was
negatived without a division.

On the loth of December, Mr. Horner proposed to
the House, to adopt certain resolutions which might
prevent the introduction of any clause or clauses into
local bills for the relief of the poor, contrarj^ to and
inconsistent with the established law of the land. He
stated, " That the objectionable clauses in question
easily found their way into local poor bills, because
they, being of the nature of private bills, did not re-
ceive that attention from the House which would be

Mt. 3g.] poor laws. 1;5;5

likely to prevent the introduction of them. It ap-
peared from the report of the committee, that these
clauses were of a two-fold description. The one sort
went to alter the law of the land in the mode of assess-
ments, rating, &c., which ought never to be permitted,
unless a strong exception could be made out in the case
of particular districts, where the adoption of the ordi-
nary methods would be inadequate. The other sort of
clauses altered the law of settlement in certain parishes,
and (to the shame of the legislature be it spoken) gave
the power of inflicting corporal punishment on the poor
to persons quite unfit for such an authority. It was his
decided opinion, that upon no pretence whatever ought
such clauses as these last to receive the sanction of that
House ; and it was to these in particular that he now
meant his intended remedy to apj^ly. Some regulation,
indeed, ought to be adopted with respect to the others,
relating to the mode of assessment, rating, &c. ; but a
remedy for that would, perhaps, grow more naturally
out of the discussion on the bill of his learned friend
(Mr. Serjeant Onslow). He should therefore, move,
that it be a standing order of the House, for the present
session, that no bill should be introduced containing any
clause or clauses relating to the settlement of the poor,
or the corporal punishment of them, contrary to the
law of the land."

The Chancellor of the Exchequer expressed his entire
concurrence in the sentiments of Mr. Horner, and his
satisfaction at the manner in which he had introduced
his resolutions : they were also approved of by Mr. Ser-
jeant Onslow, Sir Samuel Romilly, and others, and were
passed unanimously.

156 CORRESPOKDENCE. [1814.

Letter CCVIU. FROM LORD GRENVILLE.
My dear Sir, Dropmore, 7th February, 1814.

My notion is that the Speaker's speech ought to
be considered simply as a breach of privilege, on the
constitutional ground which you mention, and according
to the old doctrine, that the Speaker has neither eyes to
see, ears to hear, nor tongue to speak, in the business of
the House, but as the House commands.*

The question of discretion I should myself disclaim,
saying distinctly, that if I thought the Speaker had any
such discretion to exercise, though even then I should
think this a very indiscreet use of it, yet I should by no
means wish the House to interpose with any censure of
a mere error in judgment, however glaring. But if we
are right in our view of the case, it is absolutely neces-
sary to declare, for the j)urpose of the future main-
tenance of the privileges of the House of Commons,
that they have not intrusted to their Speaker any dis-
cretion to communicate to the Throne, in presence of
the Lords, any part of the proceedings of the House,
other than such as have been brought to that state in
which they are constitutionally and necessarili/, and by
order of the House itself, so communicated.

In this view of the case, the proper course, I think,
would be, to begin by a resolution simply declaratory of
the law of parliament and privilege of the House of
Commons in this respect. Nor do I see that in any case,
whether of the passing or rejection of this resolution, it
could be necessary to follow it by any vote directly ap-
plying this rule to the recent conduct of the Speaker.

* See Letter to Lady Holland, page 137, and from Lord Grenville, page
138.

jet. 3g.] correspondence. l^-y

In such a case, prevention is the proper object to be pro-
fessed and to be pursued ; and this will, I think, infalli-
bly be obtained by such a motion, in whatever manner
it may happen to be disposed of at this moment.

The wording of such a motion would require some
care and attention, to be quite sure that the privilege is
correctly and accurately stated ; and on this subject it is
probable that Charles Williams Wynne, who has, I doubt
not, looked carefully through the precedents, can give
better advice than any body else.

For the argument, however, it is obvious that, in this
way of treating the subject, precedents are of much less
importance, because the Speaker's speeches not being
properly matter of record, it was natural, and indeed
unavoidable, that slight breaches of the rule should pass
lumoticed ; and it is not until the violation of it is ^ross
and flagrant, that it attracts attention. This is the case
with almost every other privilege of parliament : the
daily and habitual breach of these in slight cases is never
understood to prejudice, in the slightest manner, the
rule of privilege itself, which it remains in the breast of
the House to exercise and assert to its full extent, when-
ever the occasion requires it. In the present case, it
may easily be shoAvn that the violation is such as, if
wholly unnoticed, must destroy the privilege itself

I confess I doubt whether the matter has hitherto
been taken up and spoken of quite in as high a tone as
its importance requires ; if it be, as I really believe, the
greatest direct violation of the independence of the House
of Commons that has been attempted, I might say, for a
century and a half By independence, I do not, of course,
mean its right of free action, with which this matter has
no concern, but its right of separate, distinct, and imcom-
municated proceeding. It is far less in degree, but in

VOL. II. 14

;j[58 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

principle exactly similar to the case I alluded to at the
beginning of this note, the case of the five members.

Ever most truly yours,

Grenville.

Letter CCIX. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
Mv dear MurraV Lincoln's inn, 25th February, 1814.

I fear you have been looking upon me for some
time past as unpardonably idle, in omitting so long to
write to you. I can be a very diligent correspondent, if
we keep up a pretty constant fire of great or small shot ;
but if a pause takes place, it seems as if neither of us
could break it.

I have read Mr. Stewart's new volume with great
satisfaction and instruction ; it is full of matter, little to
the taste of readers of the present day, but highly valu-
able for every person who, in any intellectual pursuit or
profession, is called upon to correct and strengthen his
understanding. Besides, I like these subjects. What
seems to me the most complete, as well as original por-
tion of the volume, is all that which treats of mathema-
tical evidence and reasoning. The part I cared for
least, is the dissertation upon Aristotle's logic, though it
can hardly fail to have some salutary influence upon
education in England, provided it provokes anger at
Oxford. I wish he had examined more fully, and per-
haps with rather more perspicuity, that curious but dif-
ficult subject, Analogy, on which he has made some ob-
servations that make one regret they are not farther
pursued. In his remarks upon the use of final causes in
philosophy, he is clear as Avell as just ; but these he
might have illustrated more at length ; and it would
have been a great service, as a practical guide to those

iEi. 3C.] HOUSE OF COMMONS. 159

who would profit by these remarks, had he brought us
nearer to an express rule for distinguishmg the use of
that auxiliary in scientific inquiry, from the abuses of
which it is susceptible in all the sciences. In the present
low state of literature, while any thing is the mode but
studies of a high aim, this volume may possibly draw
less admiration than his former writings, where he had
more occasions to illuminate his metaphysical reasonings,
for popular effect, by applications of moral and critical
reflections ; but it cannot fail to give greater solidity to
his philosophical reputation.

I cannot pretend to give you any news ; for I see
nobody that knows more than the newspapers give us.
The state of public opinion is an amusing subject of
observation at the present moment ; I never knew it
more violent or more nearly unanimous, though I find
myself, by the compulsion of all the reflections that I
have been able to make upon this great crisis, in the
small minority of those who dread the consequences of
the restoration of the Bourbons, or the conquest of
France. Some of the wisest men, I know, are praying
for, and even expecting, the restitution of the church
lands. The anxiety of this suspense is quite painful ; it
cannot last much longer.

Ever affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Parliament re-assembled, pursuant to the adjourn-
ments, on the 21st of March, but Mr. Horner's name
does not appear in any of the debates until the 2d of
May : during the greater part of the interval, he was
on the circuit. From that time, to the close of the ses-
sion on the 30th of July, he spoke on several occasions :

160 HOUSE OF COMMONS. [1814.

the most important of these were, when the Corn Laws
were under consideration on the loth and 16th of May,
and a motion which he himself made on the 28th of
June, for the production of papers to show, how far
ministers, in the hate negotiations for peace, had exerted
their influence to promote the abolition of the Afri-
can slave-trade, on the part of France. As his speeches
on these occasions are reported at some length, and
as they do not refer merely to the time when they were
delivered, but are on subjects of a more general interest,
I have inserted them in the Appendix, as they are given
in Hansard's Debates.

A bill had been introduced by Government on the
8th of July, " to provide for the preserving and restor-
ing of peace in such parts of Ireland as may, at any
time, be disturbed by seditious persons, or by persons
entering into any unlawful combinations or conspi-
racies;" and on the motion for the second reading of
the bill, on the 13th of July, Mr. Horner opposed it.

" He arraigned it as an unconstitutional measure, and
brought forward, towards the close of the session, when
most of the members for Ireland were absent, without
any statement that it was called for by any sudden
emergency, or any new or extraordinary occurrence in
Ireland. It w\as a measure which, as it stood, would go
to deprive his Majesty's subjects in Ireland of the in-
valuable privilege of grand and petit juries, and transfer
the office of these juries to county magistrates, who, with
the aid of a serjeant or barrister-at-law, were to try and
condemn to transportation, for an indefinite time, any
persons whom they should deem guilty of offences, not
defined by law, and, at most, merely constructive. He
deprecated the habit of bringing bills into the House, of
late, to pass new laws for Ireland, without laying any

^Et. 3c.] alien act. 161

foundation to satisfy the House of the necessity of such
laws, and in the absence of the members for Ireland, who
were most competent to judge of such necessity; and
such was the bill introduced this night, for extending to
Ireland the English law of extents, the policy of which
was extremely questioned in this country by the ablest
lawyers and statesmen, and must be therefore still more
questioned in a country where it never was introduced
before. As to the present bill, he was convinced it must
tend rather to exasperate the people, and considerably
exaggerate the mischief it proposed to remedj^, than to
produce any salutary consequences ; and he never could
consent, without grounds infinitely stronger than he had
heard, to such a violation of the constitution of the
country, as to abolish the trial by jury, or suspend the
ordinary and constitutional operation of the laws, which
must be fully adequate to all necessary purposes."

The following night Mr. Hiley Addington, Under-
secretary of State for the Home Department, moved the
second reading of a Bill for the repeal of the existing
Alien Act, and to substitute another. " He described it
as being nothing more than a renewal of the Act of
1802 ; that it did not give greater power to ministers
than they were entrusted with by that Act: whether
these powers were originally too great it was for the
House to decide ; for his own part, considering all cir-
cumstances, he had never been of opinion that that Act
went too far." Mr. Horner on that occasion said, —

" It was not enough to urge, in support of any mea-
sure, that it was a transcript of some former act of par-
liament. There had been many suspensions of the
Habeas Corpus Act, each of which was the transcript of
some other ; but such a measure would at any time be
very ill received, without some statement of the neces-

14:1:

1G2

ALIEN ACT. [1814.

sity of taking from his Majesty's subjects their constitu-
tional protection. The Bill before the House was a
measure analogous to the suspension of the Habeas
Corpus, for it took from the aliens, in amity with his
Majesty, that protection which it was the boast of our
constitution to afford them. The question then returned
to the necessity of the case ; and he should assume that
none such existed, because it had even been alleged that
the present state of things was not in any degree extraor-
dinary. The policy of the first Act on this subject was, to
prevent the influx of dangerous foreign political prin-
ciples. In the feverish time which followed the last war,
the same danger was apprehended to exist. Could it be
said, that any trace of the circumstances of those times
existed at present? Indeed, at present, there was a
greater fear of an influx of those which were thought
the dangerous principles of France in a former period
of our constitution, the principles of arbitrary govern-
ment. These principles, however, it was fortunate were
not of a nature to inflame the people in their favour.
As there had been stated no ground of necessity for the
measure, it should have his decided opposition ; and not
the less for one of the reasons stated in support of it by
the right honourable gentleman opposite to him, that
a power, similar to that given to the Government by
this Bill, was possessed by all the other governments of
Europe. All these sovereigns possessed the same arbi-
trary power over their own subjects, yet it would not be
contended that, in this respect, we should assimilate our
institutions to theirs."

iEr. 3G.] CORRESPONDENCE.

Letter CCX. TO HIS FATHER.
JVIv deiXr Sir Lincoln's Inn, lOtli June, 1814.

I had the pleasure of receiving a letter from you
the end of last week, which I would have answered
sooner if I had not been very busy.

I have been doing more business this spring than
ever before ; chiefly in the House of Lords, upon Scotch
appeals, though I have had a few glimpses of business
opening to me in other channels. The circuit, which I
must mainly look to, stands just as it has done for a
year or two ; when any material amendment takes
place, I shall be sure to let you know. In the mean
time, you will be glad to be assured that my business,
such as it is at present altogether, makes me quite inde-
pendent ; and that I have no fear of its falling short of
that.

Believe me, my dear Sir,

Most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCXI. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
My dear Murray, London, 26th June, 1814.

I have had some talk with William * about our
travelling plans, which it is time now to take seriously
into our consideration. We shall finish the assizes at
Wells on Wednesday, the 17th of August, and I mean
to save myself the trouble of going to Bristol ; so that
we may be sure of setting sail, either from Dover or
Brighton, on Saturday, the 20th.

* Mr. Murray's brother. Sec Vol. I. p. 307.

264 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

Have 3^011 been planning any alterations of the route
we talked of? That was, if I remember right, to go by
Dijon to Geneva, and, after seeing the Lake, to come by
Chambery and the Great Chartreuse round to Lyons,
then down the Rhone to Marseilles ; and we had left it
uncertain, to return by the Garonne or by the Loire.
The Rhone, and that part of the Mediterranean shore
which lies near Marseilles, ought certainly to be regarded
this time as our principal object. What we are to add
to it, and in what order we are to take the whole, must
depend upon the time we have.

Suppose, instead of the Garonne or the Loire, we
were to make the addition on the eastern side. We
might either proceed from Geneva over the Great St.
Bernard to Turin, then to Nice, and from that to Mar-
seilles, a most beautiful line of journey ; and so up the
Rhone to Lyons. Or Ave might go at once from Paris to
Lyons, down to Marseilles, then to Nice, Turin, and
Geneva ; and then, if we found any time left, we might
still make a round by the Chartreuse to Lyons again.
If we go first to Marseilles, and then by Nice and Turin
to the Lake of Geneva, we should have the advantage
of going down the Rhone, and of having the Alps in a
long view before us, as we go north. If we should take
this route in a contrary direction, we should perhaps
have a chance of finding- the Hollands settled in a house
at Geneva, and of making a party with Allen and
Charles Fox=^ to Mont Blanc. Lady Holland tells me
that the tour by Turin, Nice, and the Rhone may cer-
tainly be executed in six weeks, from and back to Dieppe.
I shall have seven, I hope, if Sir Matthew Ridley's bill

* Now Colonel Fox : in Lord Melbourne's administration, he was Surveyor-
General of the Ordnance.

^r. 3G.] CORRESPONDENCE. 105

is not stopped by Lord Ellenborougli : it is safe through
our House, without a word against it.

Ever most truly yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCXII. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.

My dear Murray, Cockpit, icth July, isu.

William showed me yesterday in the House of
Lords the letter he had just received from you ; I re-
gretted that I had no leisure to write to you. I quite
agree with you in wishing to pay a short visit to Paris
at the commencement of our tour, for the sake of seeing
the half-dozen pictures and statues which all the world
talks of; it will be very agreeable to see them again
upon our return, after we have talked of them and
reflected npon our first impressions. This part of the
gallery, and the theatre, are all that I feel any thing like
impatience to see at Paris. I am much inclined to see
a little of their courts of justice, where we find them
open ; and, indeed, for seeing as much of every thing as
our time will admit of

As to the particular route we are to adopt, I have no
preference, provided we contrive to see the coast of the
Mediterranean, for which I have a longing. I do not
know any subject on which I would not take Seymour's
advice, except the article of speed. Pie always forgets
the brevity of human life, and the necessary imperfec-
tion of all human performances. At his rate of exam-
ining a country, we should have some chance of reaching
Paris by the end of three or four long vacations, dili-
gently employed. Did you suppose I wished to ascend
Mont Blanc ? In that case, I do not wonder Seymour
laughed aloud. I have no ambition for that sort of phi-

1(36 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

losophical experiment upon my own person, and should
as soon think of going up in a balloon, or of baking my-
self in an oven with Dr. Blagdcn. What I proposed
was, a view of Mont Blanc from the valley of Chamouny,
which is an expedition of two days from Geneva; and
to add to that, that we should see the two passes, the
Col de Balme and the Tete Noire, that lead to Martigny,
from which we should have another different view of
Mont Blanc. As to the route, from Marseilles by Nice
and Turin, over the Great St. Bernard to Geneva, we
will talk of all that when we meet, and as we go along ;
I believe we shall find it quite practicable, if we prefer
it. If we go another 3^ear to Italy, which I hope we
shall certainly do next summer, the St. Bernard would
not be our best course, but the Simplon, (where Bona-
parte's famous road is,) which enters the most interesting
part of Italy, by the Lago Maggiore and Milan ; I am
impatient that we should compare that famous lake with
Killarney.

Affectionately yours.

Era. Hoener.

Letter CCXIII. TO MRS. DUGALD STEAYART.
Dear Mrs. Stewart, Salisbury, 24th July, 1814.

I have sent your letter to Doctor Marcet, and
hope no material harm is done by its following me so
much farther than you meant it should. It gave me a
pretence for writing to our excellent friend myself; and
an opportunity of asking him to give me, if he can, a
letter of introduction to some intelligent native at Avig-
non, for I have a great fancy that \ye should lounge
some few days round that spot, to see the Maison Quarree
on one side, and Laura's haunts on the other ; and to see

^T. 36.] CORRESPONDENCE. 10 -jr

something of the people in their own ways, at an inland
place as far south as we can go. William Murray has
found out that there is excellent trout fishing in the
Sorga ; and I encourage him by all means to carry his
rod across France on purpose.

Will you ask Mr. Stewart to turn in his mind what
can be done by persons in this country to prompt any
French men of letters to write against the slave-trade ?
In the state of opinions upon the subject in that coun-
try, there is as much to be done, and as much glory to
be won by those who will do it, as before Granville
Sharp and Clarkson had started it in England. Yet
there is so little of colonial interest as yet organised
against it, and there is so much in the arguments of the
cause that would be captivating to Frenchmen, if ad-
dressed to them in the modes and fashion of their own
literature, that there wants, I should think, but a skilful
hand to sow the seed in proper places. Except at
Geneva, one knows not where to look for men of letters ;
but the press of Geneva may once more be rendered a
j)owerful engine for the instruction of France. I am
told that Chateaubriand is an abolitionist, and his way
of writing is in vogue. I have been inquiring about
the Huguenot clergy ; but they are said to be very low
in learning, and to be too much afraid of losing their
toleration under the Bourbons, to be likely to do any
thing that might be displeasing to the government.
The African Institution named a committee, of which I
am one, to consider of the means of promoting the cir-
culation of abolition tracts in the French lancjuase ;
nothing, I am satisfied, can be done to any purpose, but
by giving an impulse to the French press itself If Mr.
Stewart will have the goodness to suggest what occurs
to him, I will use his communication in any manner.

168 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

and with any degree of reserve that he may desire. No
one could be so useful to us, if any thing can be pointed
out to be done. My kind regards to Miss Stewart : I
rely upon the pleasure of seeing you all in December.
Ever yours most sincerely,

Fra. Horner.

Have you heard that the King of Sardinia has sig-
nalised Jus restoration, by prohibiting vaccination as a
dangerous novelty? This would be a match for the
revival of the slave-trade, and the re-establishment of
the inquisition.

Letter CCXIII* TO MRS. DUGALD STEWART.
Dear Mrs. Stewart, Salisbury, 24th July, 1814.

I happen to know more of the Princess Char-
lotte's story than I usually care to do of the concerns or
transactions of that uninteresting family; and though
one never ought to be sure, in any thing connected with
them, that one knows the truth, my conviction is very
strong that she has been ill used in the extreme, and
considering her education, and the blood she has, has
conducted herself well, both in point of sense and of
good feeling. The unlucky incident of the Hackney
Coach and her flight to Connaught House appears to
have been unpremeditated, in the despair and agita-
tion very natural to so young a person, so ill brought
up, in the confusion she was thrown into by a harsh
and sudden notice to her, that she was to be separated
at once from every one she cared for, and put under the
custody of those whom she dreads. It is not worth
wdiile giving you the details ; they are very circumstan-
tial, and it is only from the whole that a fair impression

^T. 30.] CORRESPONDENCE. ]^(;9

can be taken ; this motion, announced by the Duke of
Sussex, will probably lead to a very general publica-
tion of them. The conduct of the Regent throughout
has exhibited an entire absence of all natural affection
for her, as his daughter, a neglect even of the care and
attentions which he owed to her as a young woman
committed to his guardianship, and all the harshness,
tyranny, and want of nerves that belong to his charac-
ter. The whole story of her education, projected mar-
riage, and present imprisonment, is unlike English man-
ners, and savours strongly of that taste and principle in
domestic life, which, by the Princess Wilhelmine's ac-
count, were habitual in the German courts. I am quite
persuaded that he had no other reason for wishing the
marriao;e but to remove his next successor from his
sight, and the galling popularity of a more youthful
court than his own. To carry his point, it was a neces-
sary part of the scheme, to insure her residence abroad,
though his real intentions on this head were concealed
from her at first, and were, as I understand, detected,
after her consent to the match had been obtained,
by finding, from the Prince of Orange, that a different
language was held to him on the subject, than had been
used to her, in the single conversation which ended in
that consent. From the moment of this discovery, she
assumed a language which she maintained throughout ;
and she appears to have received from those who were
about her at this time, very judicious and honest advice.
She insisted upon a parliamentary security for her resi-
dence in England as the assurance of its being a practi-
cal security. To this she adhered till the last ; and the
match was finally broken off, upon her ascertaining that
no house was to be provided for her, and that the Prince
of Orange confessed he was under the necessity of resid-
VOL. II. 15

170 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

ing in his own country. One of the most reprehensible
circumstances in the Regent's conduct to his daughter,
was, that after he found himself disappointed, by her
firmness, of his purpose to send her abroad, he contrived
to throw upon her the task and the seeming dishonour
of breaking off the engagement, by getting the sove-
reign of the Netherlands to write such a letter to his
son, as made his future residence there a public duty :
the proof of this is very curious, and depends upon a
comparison of dates, and upon the terms in which some
letters that passed were expressed. Whether the scene
that was acted at Warwick House, in the beginning of
last week, was merely dictated by the Regent's resent-
ment for his disappointment, or is part of a scheme laid
for still forcing upon her the marriage and foreign resi-
dence, I do not know. It had been threatened for
some days, and yet was attended with much precipita-
tion in the manner of its execution, as well as violence.
From the day that her consent to the marriage was
procured, I believe I might say very unfairly, she never,
except at a public assembly at Carlton House, had a
siarht of her father for about three months. She was

prohibited from having any intercourse with her mother.
After his return from his freaks at Belvoir, she wrote to
him inquiring after his health ; he had not leisure to
answer her note, but sent Mac. Malion with a verbal
reply, and this mode of communication was all she was
honoured with for some weeks.

She has some disorder in her knee ; probably the
family taint. Last summer, sea-bathing was recom-
mended for her ; she asked him to let her go ; he said
he could not make the necessary arrangements, and
she did not go. On the Saturday before the Hack-
ney Coach scene, a certificate prescribing sea-bathing

^T. 36.] CORRESPONDENCE. ^^'j'^

for her was written by Baillie, Cline, and Keake. She
communicated their advice to her father in a re-
spectful letter, which I have seen, and which would
melt your heart to read. There was no other answer
given to this application, but his arrival on the Tues-
day following, at the head of the three old ladies and
the Bishop of Salisbury, to take possession of the
house, (that was his own phrase to Miss Knight,) and to
tell his daughter that Miss Knight was to be dismissed
instantly ; she must sleep that night at Carlton House,
and then go with the same old ladies to Crauford Lodge,
a lone house in Windsor Park. When the Duke ot
York carried her, in the middle of the night, from her
mother's to Carlton House, he refused at first sternly,
and was only prevailed on by the most urgent entreaties,
to allow her maid to accompany her, a Mrs. Lewes.
His R. Highness said, it was not in his orders. Could
a Prussian corporal have behaved worse ? The Princess
Charlotte is not yet gone to the sea. But after all this
had passed, the Regent talked of his affection for her to
Lady Rochester for an hour together, and shed a flood
of tears — another most characteristic trait.

All this in answer to your single question, is she
really ill used ? You will suspect me to be getting deep
into the secrets of the royal family, and will at the
least suppose me to be much interested for this captive
Princess. In truth, neither is the case. But enough of
this subject for the present.

Affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

172 CORRESrONDENCE. [1814.

Letter CCXIV. TO HIS SISTER, MISS ANNE HORNER.

My dear Nancy, Bodmin, sth August, ish.

Tell my mother, that I have received her kind
answer to the letter I wrote from Salisbury.

The only excursions I have made this circuit for sights
have been in Devonshire ; and two of them very plea-
sant, one to see an old Gothic house, the other a new
one. I have always heard of Ford Abbey since I first
knew Devonshire, as an antiquity worth going to see ;
and who should have become the occupier of it but Mr.
Jeremy Bentham, who has taken a lease of the place for
seven years ? He asked me to come and see him, and to
bring Adam with me : we spent two days with him. It is
upon the side of the little river Axe, about eight miles
above Axminster. For three or four miles round, the roads
are so bad that the place is almost inaccessible, and lies
secluded in very green meadows. The house was once a
Cistertian monastery ; but, in the reign of Charles the
First, it came into the possession of a family of Pri-
deauxs, who were opulent enough to employ Inigo
Jones to give the exterior of it an entirely new form,
in which he has mixed battlements and Roman arches
with the oriel windows of the older style. The archi-
tecture, therefore, is not very curious for its age, though
the front is very showy. Within the house there are
some remains of its original state ; a fine hall or refec-
tory and two sets of cloisters, one of them almost dark,
with the cells on one side, which the monks inhabited,
resembling very much a ward in a modern mad house.

There are some handsome rooms, furnished in the
taste of King William's time ; one of these very spa-
cious and hung with tapestry, Mr. Bentham has con-

JEx. 3G.] CORRESPONDENCE. I73

verted into what he calls his " scribbling shop : " two or
three tables are set out, covered with white na])kins, on
which are placed two or three music desks with manu-
scripts ; his technical memory (I believe), and all the
other apparatus of the exhaustive method. I was pre-
sent at the mysteries, for he went on as if we had not
been with him. A long walk, after our breakfast and
before his, began the day. He came into the house
about one o'clock, the tea things being by that time set
by his writing table, and he proceeded very deliberately
to sip his tea^vhile a young man, a sort of pupil and
amanuensis, read the newspapers to him, paragraph by
paragraph. This and the tea together seemed gradually
to prepare his mind for working, in which he engaged
by degrees, and became at last quite absorbed in what
was before him, till about five o'clock, when he met us
at dinner. He permitted me to sit in the same room,
for the purpose of looking over some old volumes which
he had found in the house ; but I was much more atten-
tive to his own proceedings: this is his daily course
throughout the year. Adam, who had never seen him
before, was delighted with the suavity and cheerfulness
of his manner. Besides the young man I have men-
tioned, Mr. Cohen, he has living with him Mr. Mill=^= (a
gentleman who writes a good deal in the Edinburgh
Review) and his whole family.

The other house we have been to see is a contrast of
modern luxuries and elegance to the bare grandeur of
Ford Abbey; it is called a cottage, built by the Duke of
Bedford, but a cottage which has cost thirty thousand
pounds in the building. It is in a fine highland situa-
tion, upon the banks of the Tamar, between Tavistock

* The late James Mill, Esq., author of the History of British India. — Ed,

15*

174 CORRESrONDENCE. [1814.

and Laimceston, and is called Endsleigh ; that fine river,
which has not half the reputation it deserves, winding
before it for two miles, among steej) slopes covered with
oak coppices. I do not much admire the building,
though there are beautiful parts : it wants character and
effect : it is in that mixed manner, half cottage, half
manor house, which our modern tradesmen in the pic-
turesque have put together, and which has no style.
Jeffrey W^^att and Repton have had full scope at Ends-
leigh, and are there now : Mr. Adam came down to
meet them, and invited William and me to take it m
our way from Exeter. We spent all yesterday there.

Yours affectionately.

Era. Horner.

On the 20th of August, Mr. Horner, Mr. J. A. Murray,
and his brother, set out on their continental tour. He
wrote several letters to different members of his family
during his absence, which w^ere very interesting at the
time ; but as they are chiefly descriptive of parts of
France and of the north of Italy, through which they
travelled very rapidly, and which have now become
familiar to so many, I have given only a few of them,
and these somewhat abridged. They will be read, I
think, with some interest, as showing the impressions
made upon the writer, who was then visiting France and
Italy for the first time ; and from which Englishmen had
been excluded for so many years, with only one short
interval.

iET. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. I75

Letter CCXV. TO HIS MOTHER.
My dear Mother, Dieppe, Sunday Morning, 21st Aug. 1814.

I wrote to my father yesterday, in the short time
we stopped at Brighton. We left that place about
eleven o'clock hi tlie forenoon, and were landed upon
the quay here at two o'clock this morning. The day
was extremely fine, and the wind favourable, so that the
voyage was quite delightful to both my fellow-travellers,
who are not affected with sea-sickness. Nothing can be
more different than Dieppe and Brighton -, the difference
is striking and amusing : we have been in the church for
a few minutes ; it was very full, chiefly of women of the
middling and lower classes, dressed in a manner very
new to our eyes, and not unpicturesque.

We supped in a room, in an alcove of which were
beds for two of us, with a tiled floor, up two pair of
stairs, the furniture half very fine and old, the other
half coarse and ill-contrived. A marble table with gilt
feet, some chairs as if from a state apartment, a deal
door with iron bands, dessert dishes for wash-hand basins,
will give you some notion of the contrast all this is to
English neatness. I must not omit to tell you, that
while we were supping on an excellent fowl very dirtily
roasted, with a bottle of Burgundy, for which we pay
three shilHngs and four-pence, our beds were making by
a chambermaid.

Your very affectionate

Fra. Horner.

176 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

Letter CCXYI. TO HIS MOTHER.
My dear Mother, Rouen, Sunday night, 21st Aug. 1814.

We arrived here about eight o'clock, having been
delayed at Dieppe till past two : this seems a large town,
but we shall see nothing of it, as we mean to start early.
The country we came through from Dieppe is well cul-
tivated all the way, and has quite the appearance of the
south of England, — for the first thirty miles and more,
an open country without any enclosures, but cultivated
with every sort of corn and green crops, with orchards
intermixed. The road, a very noble one, from seventy
to ninety feet wide all the way, and made of flint gravel :
a few miles from Rouen we came upon a pavement or
causeway. The general appearance of this part of the
country kept me in mind, except for the orchards and
fruit-trees, of some parts of Hampshire and other dis-
tricts of England, where downs have been lately taken
into culture,, or common field system prevails. The ap-
proach to Eouen is through an avenue of high trees,
with a broad footpath, and some lamps suspended on
lines drawn from tree to tree across the road. It being
Sunday evening, the w^hole w^orld was abroad ; and in
all the little villages it was very agreeable to see such a
multitude of well-dressed peasants and labourers, appar-
ently most comfortable and happy. My impressions all
yesterday w^ere pleasant and satisfactory, both from the
views of the country we' passed through, and from the
looks and dress of the people we saw. We take the
lower road to Paris, which carries us along the course of
the Seine by Mantes and Vernon.

Ever, my dearest Mother, yours,

Era. Horner.

^T. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 277

Letter CCXVII. TO HIS SISTER, I^HSS HORNER.
My dear Fanny, Paris, soth August, i8i4.

We have stayed several days longer in Paris
than we originally intended ; but we are now waiting
for horses to set out for Dijon and Geneva, meaning to
sleep to-night at Fontainebleau. I wrote to my mother
from Dieppe and from Rouen. Between Rouen and
Paris we slept at a little village called Tiel, which gave
us the entry into Paris at mid-day, and an opportunity,
by the way, of seeing St. Germain, the waterworks at
Marly, and Josephine's villa, Malmaison.

Our chief objects in coming to Paris were the Louvre
and the theatre. In the latter we have been disap-
pointed, the best actors being at this season in the pro-
vinces, and the theatres having been thrown open gratis
to the common people most of the daj^s we have been
here ; an indulgence which began in the republican
days I believe. I have been once at the Theatre Fran-
^ais; a dehutautc was the attraction of the night, who
played Amenaide in Tancrede, with a good deal of spirit
and feeling ; all the rest seemed to me very bad ; we
went also to the Theatre des Vari^t^s, where the enter-
tainment consists of three or four farces, very broad and
absurd, but extremely well acted. Brunei is the best of
the performers. What struck me most in him, and one
or two others there, was their under-acting, by which
they made the nonsense and extravagance they had to
go through appear less foolish than it was to read, and
gave something both of elegance and nature to mere
ribaldry. The theatres are small and comfortable ; one
hears even in the high boxes distinctly ; the articula-

][78 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

tion of the actors is distinct, and, in comic dialogue, de-
lightfully spirited and smooth. As to the Louvre, I
cannot attempt a description of it : the magnitude and
riches of the gallery quite confounded and overwhelmed
me with astonishment; my impression is, that I liked
the statues better than the pictures; of the statues I
liked the Apollo most, and of the pictures, the portraits
painted by Raphael and the Parma Correggio. The
Transfiguration, The Descent from the Cross, and Dome-
nichino's St. Jerome, rather seemed to me something
admirable, from which I should derive delight if I
studied them, than conveyed to me an immediate emo-
tion of pleasure or elevation.

Paris surpasses London infinitel}^ in the number and
magnificence of the public buildings. The quarter of
the town where we are lodged, Rue de la Paix, formerly
Rue Napoleon, is full of great and elegant edifices :
nothins; that I had seen before could be mentioned that
would convey to 3'ou an idea of the effect of them.
Napoleon's hand is visible every where ; not so much in
the ornaments, w^hich, with rather a childish vanity, he
has crowded upon works that had been erected by his
predecessors, as in the numerous buildings of every
description which will remain as long as Paris itself, —
several new bridges, that of Jena, a very handsome one,
very noble quays upon the river, market-places, tri-
umphal arches, columns, &c. The embellishment of
Paris seems to have been always in his thoughts : the
vast dome of the Invalids is covered with gilding on the
outside, which he ordered to be done after his return
from Moscow ; I disliked the effect of this at first, but
am now reconciled to it.

I meant to make this a long letter, but find I must

^T. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 1^9

stop. As I have not written for a week, I think it
better to send it half fmishedj than to keep it for ano-
ther post.

Most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letteu CCXVIII. to HIS SISTER, MISS HORNER.

My dear Fanny, Geneva, sth Sept. isu.

We left Paris on the afternoon of the 31st
ultimo, having hired a large open barouche with a seat
for the servant : this is drawn by three horses ; and, in
such fine weather as we had the whole of the jour-
ney, is a very commodious and pleasant carriage. We
stopped at Fontainebleau, the interior of which is very
magnificent : the old gilt ceilings, some of them of
Henry the Fourth's time, were saved from the plunder
to which the furniture and decorations, within reach,
were delivered up during the Revolution, and are cer-
tainly very fine ; but what is most worth mentioning is,
the gallery of Francis I, built and embellished by that
monarch, in which Napoleon has placed busts of the
w^orthies and great captains of all nations, and has intro-
duced among them some of his own aide-de-camps who
had fallen in action, and the head of Dessaix, who was
killed in the battle of Marengo. The forest of Fontaine-
bleau, which we crossed in coming to the palace, has
some striking scenery ; and we were glad to see a few
oaks that could be called trees, for we had seen no trees
of any sort before, and have seen none since. In the
palace, the ornaments of which had been restored in
great splendour by Napoleon, we were shown the suite
of apartments which the Pope occupied there for the
nineteen months of his imprisonment, and the bed-room

180 COKRESPONDENCE. [1814.

and boudoir of Marie Antoinette, which, by some man-
agement, were preserved, and were afterwards used by
Josephine and Marie Louise. I felt more interest in
seeing Napoleon's room and bath, and little cabinet, and
the writing table standing in the last of these apart-
ments, upon which he signed his act of abdication.

The second night of our journey from Fontainebleau,
we meant to sleep at a small country inn, called Lucy
le Bois, and arrived there about midnight, (for the de-
lightful moonlight induced us to travel so late,) but we
found the whole in possession of Lord Bute, who was
crossing France by the same road, with a suite of nine-
teen persons. We went on to the next stage, Avallon,
and found the chief inn there tenanted, in the same
manner, by Lord Holland's travelling party, which is
not much less. Besides this, the town was crowded
with natives from all the country, on account of a " dis-
tribution des prix," that had taken place that very day,
and was followed by a ball. We were at last admitted,
after much grumbling, into a house where we were pro-
mised something to eat, but nothing to sleep on ; which
we thought no bad compromise. The landlord in the
course of a few minutes cooked us a very good supper
of several dishes, swearing loud all the while ; but by
the time we had found out from his wife that their son
had got Rollin's Belles Lettres as a premium, and, in addi-
tion to the flattery this gave us a handle for, had or-
dered his best Champagne, he got into perfect good
humour, owned he was " un pen vif," and bustled about
till he provided us with beds. All this cookery and
bustle was performed en deshahille, for he had nothing
on above the girdle but his shirt, with the neck open.
I found him, however, by seven o'clock with his hair
dressed, and all his stoves and saucepans in full activity.

2Et. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 281

Don't suppose we have often made so short a night of
it ; but as I was put into a room where there were two
Frenchmen ah^eadj, of whom I had a ghmpse, as they
Lay in their beds without nightcaps, I had no fancy for
indulging myself longer than was necessary. I had the
pleasure of seeing the Hollands for a Httle while ; and
then we had a walk round the ramparts of Avallon.
Between Avallon and Dijon, we crossed the high part of
Burgundy, where it blew very cold indeed. The de-
scent, which begins at a village called Sombernon, is
grand, in the outline not unlike some of the steeps in
the north of Derbyshire, but ornamented with the
bright green of the vineyards, and by the beautiful
sky, which we now became sensible had a deeper blue
than we were used to. At Dijon we perceived that we
had got among an entirely different race from any we
had yet seen : the number of beautiful women walking
about quite surprised us : it was Sunday, and they were
endimauchees ; but their regular features, dark complex-
ion and hair, and fine eyes, had an uniform and marked
character. At Auxonne, we saw more works of the
hostilities of last spring than at any other place in our
route ; but there, as every where else that we saw,
every thing was repaired or repairing. It was on the
waj^ to Auxonne that we first observed plantations of
maize, or iurqide, as they call it in the country : it is
very showy; and we had little else but maize, hemp,
and vines all the way to the foot of Mount Jura. What
I have next to tell you of is, our route from Poligny
across the ridge of Mount Jura to the side of the Lake
of Geneva. But this I must reserve for another letter.
Ever most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

VOL. II. 16

182 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

Letter CCXIX. TO MRS. L. HORNER.
My dear Anne, Brieg, isth Sept. i8i4.

We crossed the Jura, ascending the first ridge of
that great mountain at Poligny in Franche Comte and
coming down to Nyon upon the side of the lake of
Geneva. The pleasing impressions that we received
from the scenery of that mountain district are almost
effaced hy the greater scenes in which we have been
living for the last four days. It was, however, a very
interesting journey ; and except in the Alps, I have
not seen any thing more romantic than the cliffs of
Poligii}^ ; — the deep dells between Champagnole and
Maison Neuve, where we first met with mountain pines,
and after passing the last of these places, a quiet green
vale on the banks of the river Ain,

After a morning walk at Nyon, in the course of which
we had a full view of Mont Blanc, at first in all its ex-
tent, and afterwards of its summit only, in bright sun-
shine above the clouds, and saw likewise a small house,
where Joseph Bonaparte has taken refuge with his
famil}^, w^e went along the side of the lake to Geneva ;
passing through Coppet, where Madame de Stael lives.
There was a hise blowing, which made the lake very
blue. At Geneva, we j)assed three entire days in lodg-
ings upon the ramparts, which have a very fine view.
The first day was unfortunately a fast day or festival,
the whole of which was spent in presbyterian sermons,
and the gates of the town were shut during service. I
had the pleasure of meeting with Mr. Mallet, whose
mother lives at La Prairie, a little way out of the town.
After a charming evening walk by the side of the
Rhone down to its confluence with the Arve, I w^ent to

^T. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 183

La Prairie, and, in a Genevese tea-party, met some old
acquaintances, particularly the Constants.

I saw a good deal of Mr. Dumont, who has been in a
peck of troubles about the blunders his fellow-citizens
have committed, in making their new constitution. We
were introduced to Professor Pictet, who was obliging
enough to invite us to the sitting of a Society of Natural
History, where the philosophers ate amply of peach tart
in huge .slices; and to Professor Prevost, whose amia-
ble simplicity of manners and apparent benevolence of
character prepossessed me greatly : I was sorry not to
see more of him, and not to see Madame Prevost at all.
Unluckily Dr. Marcet's letter, which he was so very
kind as to send me for the purpose of introducing me,
did not come to my hands till the night before I was to
leave Geneva : I had been introduced to Mr. Prevost by
a letter from Mr. Stewart. My last morning was spent
in making a visit at Coppet ; where I found Sir James
Mackintosh, and was glad also to see M. Sismondi, the
historian of the Italian republics.

Last Sunday morning I set out for Chamouny with
William Murray in a char-a-banc, his brother preferring
to keep to the warm shores of the lake ; it being ar-
ranged that we should meet at Martigny. We made a
day's journey in the cJiar-a-hanc, as far as St. Martin,
opposite to Sallenche. At Cluses, whose site (at the
mouth of a deep winding ravine, in which the Arve
flows) must have suggested its name to the Romans, we
seemed to enter into the heart of the Alps, by a road
between steep walls of rock immensely high and richly
clothed with pines. This continued with considerable
variety in the details, as far as St. Martin, where we
slept, and were provided with another char-ctrhanc, and a
guide, for Chamouny. In going there what pleased me.

184 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

perhaps most of all, was the hill-side, upon which the
church of Passy and a few cottages discover themselves
among innumerable orchards and vineyards, which bury
out of sight a considerable village. The cottages that
appeared through the orchards were like so many Gre-
cian temples of the early simple form ; for the fashion
of the houses is almost the original frame of Grecian
architecture. When you perceive nothing but the ga-
ble end, the angle and uprights of ^^lich are in that
part of the Alps very exact and neat, as it breaks out
among walnut-trees, with perhaps a silver or spruce fir,
here and there among them, it has a very classical ap-
pearance. Next to Passy, I must mention Lcs llontes,
the narrow pass into the valley of Chamouny ; which is
magnificent and sublime beyond any description that I
can give : the depth of the ravine, the dark colour of
the rock opposite to that in which the road is cut, and
the blazing snows of Mont Blanc, are the principal fea-
tures. In this defile, we met Mr. Eogers the poet, and
his sister, returning from Chamouny.

In the valley of Chamouny I admired much the gran-
deur of the clifis, and the beautiful cultivation of the
bottom, watered by the Arve, and covered with the
neatest cottages of the same form which I have described.
Except Mont Blanc itself, I rather think all the heights
would be more agreeable to look at if they were with-
out snow, and the glaciers are very ugly, — though a
curious phenomenon of nature, and surprisingly con-
trasted with the trees that mount above them, and with
the corn-fields, which they approach within a few yards.
We saw reapers at work as near as that to the Glacier
des Bossons, which is the one that comes lowest into the
valley. It was the time of oat harvest, which is the
principal grain that they raise ; and a very novel and

JEt. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. ^85

altogether very jDleasing scene it was, to see the close of
the evening in this lovely valley, where so many people
were busy in cutting and binding the oats, amidst the
tinkling of a hundred cow-bells, while the sun was only
seen by its strong reflection from the snow above, the
summits of which were for a few minutes tinged with a
faint red.

On Tuesday morning we set out on mules to cross the
Col de Balme, the high mountain which separates Savoy
from Le Valais; our guide was mounted in the same
manner, and carried our bag of provisions for the day.
The ascent is not very steep, and took us no more than
four hours : we followed the Arve up to its source. In
our way we Avere fortunate enough to witness an ava-
lanche, far enough off to be seen without danger : as we
were passing under the Glacier du Tour, a noise like the
burst of thunder made us look up ; and half way up
this glacier there was a cloud of snow, like the smoke
rolling from a battery of cannon : a piece of ice had
burst and given way, and left one side of a great rock
bare.

On the Col de Balme we had a full view of the sum-
mit of Mont Blanc ; its dome, likewise covered with
snow ; all its peaks, or aiguilles, as they are called from
their form, which does not suffer the snow to lie on
them but partially, and its glaciers shooting down into
the valley. Our descent to the valley of Trient was
very steep, through a forest of old larch trees and pines ;
the Bois de Magnan, I think : so steep that it could not
even be ascended except on foot ; we had of course to
drive our mules before us. As we were coming down,
we met a lergerc, with half-a-dozen cows ; she inquired
of our guide what was the state of the pasture on the
mountain, and how low the snow was already, for she

16*

186 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

was going to the chalet, if she had a chance of finding
pasture : she gave the cows every now and then a little
salt, which made them mount the hill with great avidity.
We crossed the sequestered valley of Trient, and sloped
along a height above it, wdiich brought us to the steep
pass called La Forcla, which was still shaded with pines,
but with a fine verdure between the opposite banks.
Half way down La Forcla, we came to a superb view of
the Yalais, from the bourg of Martigny, which seemed
under our feet, (though we were more than an hour from
from it,) to the white walls of Sion : it was the prospect
of a dead level, almost covered with wood, which we
afterwards found to be fruit trees, wdth the Rhone wind-
ins: from one end to the other, and the Dranse from St.
Bernard passing to meet it iDctween Martigny and an
old castle upon a rocky point. From the spot where we
commanded this prospect, the pass changes its name for
that of Les Eapes : w^e lost sight of the Alpine pines,
and got once more among walnut trees and vines, and
as we descended lower, we rode through avenues of the
finest chestnut^ trees and patches of Indian corn. The
change, this contrast, the beauty and profusion of all the
luxuriant vegetation, the deep blue of the sky, and
detail of laborious industry upon the uplands of the
craggy Alps, — the numberless little towns that we could
count along the roots of mountains, and the snowy ridge
that was perpetually in front, and seemed to bind all as
with a crown, — made this one of the most delightful
hours I ever enjoj-ed from scenery. I should be well
pleased to be able to give you a good account of the
country we travelled over, and saw in our way from
Martigny to the place at which I shall date this letter.
It is not more interesting by picturesque character, than
by its air of great antiquity, and by the primitive cus-

.Ex. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 187

toms and manners of the inhabitants. I am convinced
that it would be worth while to any person, who can
speak German familiarly, to give a few weeks to exam-
ine all this valley minutely, by going up into the villages
upon the mountains, and seeing the usages and genius
of those who have never seen the face of strangers. In
the midst of the industry, simplicity, and plenty which
reigns in the Lower Valais, it is melancholy to see so
large a proportion of the inhabitants, particularly the
children, pallid and unhealthy; in travelling through
the country, the children usually delight one with their
looks : here, I have not seen one beauty ; most of them
are loathsome. The air of the plain is bad, I have no
doubt, great part of the year ; and I dare say they have
not been taught all they have to learn on the subject of
diet.

From Sion we came by Sierre and Turtman to Brieg.
From this point we start early to-morrow, upon the new
road by the Simplon to Domo d'Ossola. Remember me
to my dear Leonard and the little ones, and believe me
ever

Very affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCXX. FROM LORD HOLLAND.
Dear Horner, Geneva, i7th Sept. isu.

I enclose a letter for Lafayette. Pray see him,
even if you must go to La Grange for it. I know you
will like one another, and he is truly a veteran in the
good old cause, and one who has had, and is likely to
have, no recompense for his sacrifices but that (a great
one!) of the respect of such men as yourself Good
bye.

V. Holland.

]^88 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

Lktteu CCXXI. FROI^I LORD HOLLAND TO THE MARQUIS
DE LA FAYETTE.*

My dear General, Geneva, i7tii Sept. isu.

It is not, I assure you, every one of my country-
men whom I think worthy of being introduced to so
consistent and warm a friend of rational liberty as your-
self, but I cannot deny my intimate friend, Mr. Horner,
that pleasure, because I know he has both sense and
principles to value such an advantage as it deserves. He
is, indeed, one of the most promising men in our Parlia-
ment, as well as in his profession of the law, the duties
of which oblige him to return sooner than he otherwise
would wish, to England. In principle he has always
proved himself firmly attached to my uncle's politics,
though his career began as my uncle's was unfortunately
closing, and he consequently knew, and but barely knew,
him personally. As hefeels, however, so much satisfac-
tion in having known him, I am convinced that I cannot
procure him a greater pleasure in France than by intro-
ducing him to the acquaintance of his friend, who under
yet more difficult and trying circumstances than we have
experienced in England, has practised and upheld the
principles which guided him through life, so nobly and
so consistently. My anxiety to please him, perhaps my
vanity, has made me venture to assure him, that, if you
are not at Paris, you will allow him the satisfaction of
seeing you at La Grange.

Lady Holland begs to be kindly remembered, and I
cannot close my letter without repeating once more to

* Mr. Horner liad no opportunity of delivering tliis letter ; it was found
among his papers -with the seal unbroken ; I insert it with Lady Holland's
consent. — Ed.

2Et. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 189

you the pleasure it gave me to find you so well, and to
assure you of the respect and gratitude which your pub-
lic conduct and personal kindness have inspired in your
Sincere and obliged Friend,

Vassall Holland.

Letter CCXXII. TO HIS SISTER, MISS ANNE HORNER.

My dear Nancy, ^^^i-'i"' ^^^h Sept. i8i4.

In a letter to Fanny, which I think I wrote from
Geneva, I said I should give you some account of our
journey to that town by the Jura ; but all those scenes,
which pleased us very much at the time, have been so
surpassed by what we have seen since, that they are not
very fresh in my memory at the present moment, and I
will therefore leave that part of our travels to be des-
cribed some other time, when repose from this perpetual
succession of new objects shall have allowed me to look
back at leisure on all that we have gone through. You
will be surprised to see this dated from Milan; three
days ago it was not our intention to come so far, as you
would learn from a short letter I wrote to my mother
from Brieg. But the temptations from one thing to
another are so strong, that you will have reason to think
our resistance to them very virtuous, when you find,
that being so far in Italy, we can turn our back upon all
those famous places which we have been reading of all
our lives. From Geneva we all set out on Sunday the
11th for the usual tour to Chamouny, and we all met
again on the following Tuesday in the evening at Mar-
tigny, and thence by Sion, the capital of the A^alais, to
Brieg ; last Friday was spent in crossing the Alps by
Napoleon's road, the Simplon, from Brieg to Domo d'Os-
sola J on Saturday, after a short drive by Yogogna to

190 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

Baveno, upon the Lago Maggiore, we went upon the
water, visited the Boromean islands, and were rowed
down in a lovely evening to Arena ; yesterday we crossed
the Ticino, the ancient boundary of Piedmont and Lom-
bardy, at a place called Sesto, and arrived in the middle
of the day, at this capital of the late kingdom of Italy.

I have written to Anne a long letter about Chamouny
and the Valais ; after I had finished it, I saw a little
more of Brieg. It is a rude country town, at the head
of Le Valais, where the Rhone is lost in a narrow ravine,
and is joined by a torrent called La Saltine, which comes
down from the side of Simplon. I was told there by a
person who must know the country very well, that the
people of the mountains are much more lively as well
as more robust than those of the plain. The same per-
son confirmed to me, what I had heard from others less
likely to be well informed on such a point, that cretin-
ism is not so frequent now as it used to be ; and, what
is very curious, that at all times it was the children of
foreigners newly settled in the country that were most
liable to it.

We left Brieg early in the morning, and in fourteen
hours reached Domo d'Ossola, by a road over one of
the great heights of the Alps; but so well conducted,
that in the ascent there is scarcely a single pull that
would bring one of our postchaises to a halt ; and the
descent is a good trot all the way : it is made so smooth
and is so handsomely finished, as to look more like the
approach to a gentleman's house than a tract over a
mountain district to connect distant nations. An aj)pen-
dage of this noble design, which is but half finished, is
a triumphal arch of white marble, erected where the
road enters Milan : we passed this as we came into the
town, and have been again to see it. On our way from

^T. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. JQl

the Simplon there was lying by the road-side a pillar of
white marble, in one piece, more than 32 feet long,
wrought, but not polished, which was one of eight of
the same size that had been cut in an adjacent quarry,
and were to be carried down to Milan for this arch.
The work is at present suspended. The successors of
him who designed it could not do better than to inscribe
upon it, that it was commenced by Napoleon, and
finished by them, whoever they may be ; but there
would be a sort of magnanimity in that mode of pro-
claiming their own glory, of which, perhaps, they will
not be found capable. Already, since the destruction of
the French power, this past summer has broke down
some of the side walls and railings which as yet only
spoil in a few places the neatness and finish of the road ;
but one little bridge, carried away by an avalanche, and
left unrepaired, would make it wholly unpassable. The
line traced upon the mountains will remain for ever one
of the most lasting (it is to be hoped) of the many im-
pressions which this marvellous adventurer has made
upon the surface of Europe. It is more like a work of
the old Romans than any thing that has been executed
since their days. The magnitude of this effort of human
art almost prevented us from enjoying the grandeur of
the natural scenery through which it passes. In mount-
ing from Brieg, the road winds, in view of the country
which I have described round that town, and gains in
the ascent more and more extensive prospects of the
Valais, the Rhone flowing through it, and the lofty crags
and glaciers which bound it upon the north. From this
you will readily imagine, better indeed than with my
unpicturesque eyes I could even see, what scenes were
continually presented to us, and continually shifting, as
we mounted the sides of the great ridge ; and in the

192 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

winding course of our road were conducted sometimes
to (i projecting precipice, which laid the whole open, and
sometimes had narrow landscapes as we looked out-
wards from the close and deep defiles. This way of de-
scribing it seems like sameness; but there was much
variety. Our progress through the different regions of
vegetation, in the course of the day, was to me one
of the newest impressions that I felt : we left maize,
and vines, and walnut trees ; passed through forests of
pine and larch, which were less vigorous as we ap-
proached the summits. Near the Hospice nothing is to
be seen but stunted rhododendrons ; in descending, the
order is just reversed, but is more delightful ; it was like
going from spring into summer all in one day, and to a
brighter summer and richer vegetation than we had
ever seen before. The gradual approach to the luxu-
riance of Italy is for several miles through a deep dark
chasm, not much wider than the torrent which has cut
it; and by the side of which the road descends, the
cliffs on both sides being of great height and very
savage. After a few miles of this narrow defile, we
came to a very handsome one of two lofty arches, which
terminate the Simplon road, at the extremity of the
glen, which leads to the town of Domo d'Ossola, situ-
ated near the end of a flat alluvial plain, about a league
wide and six long, on all sides of which are lofty alps,
some of them topped with snow. We were now in
Italy : according to the old and present political geo-
graphy, in Piedmont, which goes to the Ticino : accord-
ing to Napoleon's geography, in the kingdom of Italy ;
but by the language, and the houses painted in fresco,
and the thick brilliant vegetation, and the market-place
covered with large baskets of macaroni, in Italy. Our
drive next morning to the lake was through a country

^T. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. I93

of quite a new aspect, owing chiefly to the elegant forms
of all the commonest houses, an elegance not consistr
ing in trimness, like our cottages in old England, for
these are generally in a rubbish of dirt and dilapidation
when you come very near them, but derived from the
outline and frame of the architecture : so mucli of the
house is appropriated and contrived for the enjoyment
of shade in the open air, that half a dozen poor ruinous
habitations present a mass of galleries, corridors, and
arcades, above one another, the light coming through in
many places, and the tall creeping vines connecting
these pieces together, and with their own trellis-work ;
the chimney is of so handsome a shape, that it seems a
studied ornament of the building, and the deep projec-
tion of the roof gives a breadth of shadow that seems to
finish the whole. It was at Vogogna that I made so
minute a study of these houses, for it was there that the
first effect of them struck and pleased me. I dare say
you know it all before from pictures, but the jDainters of
Italy, in this respect, had only to copy what they found
in every village.

I must refer you, for an accurate account of the Lago
Maggiore and its islands to the books of travels. What
distinguished it, at the first view, from the lakes I have
seen at home, and in Ii^eland, is the soft serene clearness
and calmness, " la tranquillissima marina," and the num-
ber of towns along the margin, with their picturesque
roofs and towers. The glory of the lake, however, is
the art that has been lavished on its islands. We were
rowed away from this fairy land, towards Arona, which
we reached in about three hours ; in one of those fine
evenings, which are remembered all the rest of our life.

At Milan (for I am now writing at a great distance
from thence) we spent two days. The opera-house is

VOL. II. 17

3^94 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

the handsomest theatre I have seen, m spite of being
kept in the dark; I was not very much pleased with
any part of the representation, either the singing or
dancing : the chief piece, a half serious opera, taken, I
beheve, from Mrs. Opie's tale of the Father and Daugh-
ter, the serious part consisting of the history of a mad-
man's cure, and the comic, of all the buffoonery which
the lowest vulgar practise with persons in that unhappy
state. Any thing more repulsive to good taste and re-
finement, in dramatic exhibitions, cannot be fancied.
There was one fine moment for theatrical effect; the
maniac in his recovery hums a tune, which he cannot go
through, and his daughter standing by, but out of sight,
finishes it for him ; it was her tune in her youth ; and
her misconduct had brought on his derangement : but
the music was not equal to this situation. It struck me,
that throughout the piece there was, both in the acting
and in the circumstances of the story, a mixture of the
details and habits of ordinary life, which would offend
us in our opera or modern tragedy ; and which, if one
is safe in making such a remark upon a single instance,
is perhaps national, the observation struck me the more,
because I observed the same sort of thing in the ges-
tures and elocution of a preacher whom we heard in
the cathedral. There is no vulgarity in what I mean,
but a common manner taken from common life, which
must aid powerfully, both on the theatre and in declam-
ation, any eloquence that has strength in itself I would
compare what I am talking of and which I expect I
have not made very intelligible, to those familiarities
and domestic details with which Shakspeare touches his
highest passages, and which offend French critics much,
though they heighten our delight.

You may be sure we saw the remains of the Cenacolo

^T. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. I95

of Leonardo da Vinci, in the refectory of the old monas-
tery of Notre Dame des Graces : enough of it yet re-
mains to exceed all the ideas which the best prints had
given me of the majesty and plainness and pathos of
the design; the principal figure is little injured, and is
very fine and affecting. The greatest wonder of Milan
is the cathedral or Domo ; another illustration of Bona-
parte's ambition for the fame of public works. There
is, I dare say, a great mixture of style in a building,
which it has taken so many ages to erect ; but minute
criticism is not to be thought of in the sight of such
vastness and richness. Our first visit to the cathedral
was on Sunday, about dusk ; the whole perfumed with
the incense ; a monk was preaching to a very large and
attentive congregation ; his pulpit was a semicircular
gallery round one of the great pillars, a form very
favourable to the freedom of his action, which was easy
and graceful, with that sort of familiarity which I
alluded to before.

We left Milan on the 20th September, and came to
Turin, where we remained several days ; we then crossed
the Alps again over Mont Cenis, by another great road
which we owe to Napoleon, which is only second to the
Simplon as a monument of his power, and of the use he
could make of it. Our course was by Rivoli, wdiich
may be called the head, I believe, of the plain of Lom-
bardy. We found the heat great, and in the middle of
the day oppressive, while we were on this low level,
which is covered with the richest meadows, and rice
plantations and mulberry trees. The view of the Alps,
" the stony girdle of the world," which was before us as
we traversed the plain, was grand in the highest degree ;
and might easily suggest the prejudice of the Italians in
all former times, that this was their boundary from ano-

196 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

ther world inhabited only by barbarians. The finest
single object was Monte Rosa, as seen all the way from
the Ticino to the Seria. We came through the Alpine
valleys of Savoy, beautiful all the way, if we had not
been satiated with such scenery, to Chambery, and then
by Les Echelles and Pont Beauvoisin to Lyons. We
passed some days there, and are now upon our way to
Paris, where I shall not be able to stop for more than a
couple of days. I am tired of moving about; but it
would be very agreeable and very useful to make a resi-
dence of some weeks at Paris ; the magistrates of Somer-
set, however, are upon the alert, and I must hasten to
my tasks there. I must reserve for other letters, or for
future gossip, the greatest part of what I have seen in
these travels ; in which, because I wished to send you
long letters as you desired, I have seldom found time to
write at all. I expect to hear of you all at Paris : in the
meantime give my kindest love to all at home, and let
Mrs. Murray know we are all perfectly in health, and
that I send her my affectionate regards. We are stopped
by the breaking of a wheel at this place, from which I
shall date my letter, which I shall put into the Post at
Moulins.

Ever, my dear Nancy, affectionately yours.

Era. Horner.

Varennes sur L'Allier, 5 Oct. 1814.

Letter CCXXIII. TO DUGALD STEWART, ESQ.

My dear Sir Bowood, 28th Oct. 1814.

I ougcht lono- ao-o to have thanked you for in-

eluding me in the letters, by which you introduced

Murray to some of your friends at Paris ; particularly

as I am indebted to all of them for the most obliging

iEr. 37.] CORRESrONDENCE. 297

and marked attention. M. Le Chevalier seemed to give
us his whole time with a good humour and cordiality
that made all of us feel most grateful to him. He is
now librarian to the Lycee d'Henri Quatre, the modern
transformation of the convent of St. Genevieve. M.
Gallois did us the favour of taking us to the Chamber
of Deputies, on a day of public discussion ; it would be
well for France, if sentiments as liberal and enlightened
as his were to prevail generally in that assembly, which
I fear has not sufficient strength of materials yet, either
in point of talents or of connexion with the people, to
form the foundations of a popular constitution. T re-
gret exceedingly that my short stay in Paris prevented
me from cultivating the acquaintance of M. De Geran-
do ; the first time you write to him, I wish you would
assure him how much I feel myself obliged by his kind
civilities and attention ; he took the trouble of writing
many letters, to render our travels in the south of
France more agreeable ; by one of which I had the
satisfaction of seeing that excellent and agreeable man
Camille Jourdan, at Lyons, one of the very few surviv-
ors who have gone through the revolution, and the still
more difficult trials of the late despotism, with an un-
sullied name, and an unimpaired attachment to the
principles of moderate liberty.

You will be glad to hear that I saw both M. Suard
and the Abbe Morellet in good health ; I met them to-
gether at a party of Mad. Suard's, where Sir J. Mackin-
tosh took me. It was very interesting to see in person
two men, who connect our day with names so memorable,
and times so remote ; for I think the Abbe Morellet was
at the Sorbonne with Turgot in the year 1748. I had
remarked his sturdy figure in the Chamber of Deputies.

From what I could collect, though any judgment I

17*

298 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

could form in so short a stay is good for little, nothing
can be more problematical than the future prospects of
the new government of France. That the Bourbon
flimily will keep their place, unless they are exposed to
the hazards of a new war, or commit some enormous in-
discretion at home, seemed to be the growing opinion of
the most intelligent persons.. But there appeared to be
very httle conjecture, and very little hope, with respect
to the probable fate of what they call their constitution.
In the king's cabinet, it was said, there were almost as
many systems as there were ministers ; some of them,
and these the most trusted, urging the king to bring
back by degrees all the old institutions of every descrip-
tion, at the head of whom is the chancellor; others,
such as Talleyrand, making a struggle, out of some re-
gard to appearances of personal consistency, for as much
of the improvements gained by the revolution as can be
retained. The Abbe Montesquieu is described as a
mere creature of the court, but liking to make his
speeches at the bar of the assembly. The friends of the
court say, that Talleyrand attempted at first to sur-
round the king with his own dependants, and to make
his majesty a cypher in the administration ; on the other
hand, Talleyrand's account to a friend of mine was, that
the king had the vanity to suppose himself capable of
doing a great deal of business, in consequence of which
it was in fact done by unfit persons. These stories are
not inconsistent.

In the lower assembly, there is nothing hke party sep-
aration or connexion. A remarkable symptom of this
nature, however, showed itself in the senate, during the
discussion of the law by which a censure of the press
has been established; all the imperial marshals acting
together, against the measure of government. I was

jEx. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 199

informed, also, that the young Due de Broghe is an
eager constitutionaHst, and that he has always shown a
predilection for popular principles, as much as that dis-
position could be made known during the reign of Na-
poleon.

The discussion of that law excited a very lively inte-
rest in Paris, among all men of education and reflection ;
I was there at that time, and it appeared to me that its
vast importance was duly appreciated and felt. I am
afraid, however, that there is not in the country, or in
the provincial cities, any degree of steady political feel-
ing, connecting the middling classes of the people with
their inferiors in a sentiment of common interest. The
lower people in general, though more strongly in some
districts than others, regret Bonaparte, and the loss of
military glory, and that rapid military promotion which
provided for their sons, and held out to all of them pros-
pects of ambition. The middling classes, who felt the
conscription as a tyranny of the cruellest description,
rejoice at the removal of their late ruler, but have no
feeling of attachment either to royalty in itself, or to
the Bourbons, who were literally forgotten. The priests
are said to be very zealous in labouring to recall or
create feeUngs of that sort, but hitherto without success.
The populace of Paris are understood to be more disin-
clined to the present royal family, than those of any
other part of France ; they gave rather an unexpected
proof of other attachments, upon the Duke of Orleans
taking possession of the Palais Royal, for he was hailed
with acclamations, and several voices in the crowd spoke
to him of his father, and said he was always the friend
of the people. Among the people of rank at Paris, the
sentiment that is uppermost at present is, that they are
relieved from a tyranny which, though not sanguinary,

200 COERESPONDENCE. [1814.

pursued them through every interest and almost every
incident of domestic life, with incessant interference and
vexation.

The only sure and permanent prognostic of civil lib-
erty, that I could hear of in France, is the prodigious
subdivision of land, and the unprecedented multitude of
persons directly possessed of that property. An estimate,
which seemed to come from authority, made it as high
as three millions of persons. So great a proportion of
this must be held upon revolutionary titles, or upon
titles founded in the new law of succession, that one
should hope that so much at least of the benefits earned
by the revolution, as consists in this equitable law, and
in the salutary transfer of vast domains to the people,
must be secured for ever, and fortified against the
designs of the ccurt by an insuperable bulwark of such
interests and such numbers. The court have had the
folly, however, to issue secret commissions to the bishops,
for a return of the lands held by the church in 1791,
and of the present proprietors by whom any of them
are possessed : such a measure never can lead to any
consequences, but against the court itself The fact is not
much known in France, but there is no doubt of it.

This immense multiplication of landed proprietors
has led to a great extension of cultivation, in point of
surface, and probably in many parts has made the culti-
vation much inferior in skill and efficacy to what it was
before.

There are complaints, I observe, in all the statistical
reports, of the unnecessary increase of vineyards, and of
the diminution of the woods. I was assured, however,
by a very intelligent and well-informed man, M. De Can-
dolle. Professor of Botany at MontpelUer, whom I was
introduced to at Geneva, that of late years there has

JEt. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 201

been a very great progress in the increase and manage-
ment of artificial meadows. He told me, at the same
time, that such was the subdivision of lands in the south
of Fran'ce, that the footman you hire is connnonly the
owner of an estate. I am ashamed to have allowed my
travelling garrulity to run on to such a length. But I
was anxious to tell you something of what I had picked
up on some of the points that are most interesting to
you. I shall have much more to say, if I have the plea-
sure of meeting you before Christmas, which I do not
yet despair of, though this unexpected meeting of par-
liament comes very much in my way.

With best and kindest regards to Mrs. and Miss Stew-
art, I am ever, my dear Sir,

Most affectionately yours,

Era. Horner.

Letter CCXXIV. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
My dear Murray, Lincoln's inn, 24th Nov. 1814.

I am very much obliged to you for sending me
Lord Meadowbank's thoughts on the introduction of
civil juries into Scotland. I shall read with avidity every
thing that relates to that most interesting subject.

Kennedy must have misunderstood Mr. Adam, I think,
when he collected from him that I leant in favour of a
vote upon the jury, rather than insist upon an unani-
mous verdict. I am convinced that all the advantages
of a jury cannot be secured, particularly the conclusive
and satisfactory decision of matters of fact, without hav-
ing what we call unanimity in the verdict ; which is not
a real concurrence of all, (of course, it cannot be in the
nature of things,) but a contrivance, which holds out to
the public the show of such concurrence, and is attended

202 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

with this iid vantage, that it makes every juryman sure
of being heard who has reasons to allege for his peculiar
opinion. But if the prejudice be as strong against such
a structure of the jury, as people who know Scotland
represent it to be, one must yield to the force of that
obstacle, and the framers of the present Bill will do
wisely not to press any particular innovation against the
prevailing sentiment of the country ; though they will
show their ability for such legislation still more conspicu-
ously, if, while they yield to public opinion in the first
instance, they make their new institution with some con-
trivances for gradually improving that opinion itself, and
for imperceptibly accommodating the machinery of the
institution to such future iuiprovement of the public
sentiments. The oath of secrecy proposed is but a
clumsy expedient, and will hardly be effectual. An
idea occurred to me, which I mentioned to Mr. Adam, to
fix by the statute a definite number, [nine for instance,
of a jury of twelve, or twelve of fifteen,) whose agree-
ment at least shall be required for a verdict ; to receive
the verdict, when that or a larger number are agreed,
as the verdict of that definite number only ; and when
so many cannot agree, to instruct the jury to return
their verdict, without saying any thing of their division,
as a verdict unfavourable to the party who undertook
the affirmative of the issue. In this way, a verdict in
such matters would come to be habitually considered as
the decision of that definite numl)er of sworn men upon
the issue joined 5 and when the popular notion of the
thing was thus fixed, it might not be impracticable to
cut ofi" the supernumerary jurors. This will a23pear a
crude proposal ; I wish you would give it some consid-
eration. I have sometimes conjectured, historicallj', that
it was by some progress of this sort we got our una-

^Et. 37.] TREATY WITH THE KING OF NAPLES. 203

nimity of juries in England; a greater number being
originally sworn, though always a number of which
twelve was the majority, as in our grand juries to this
day, (which may consist of twelve, or of any number
greater than that, but not exceeding twenty-three,) till
verdicts came to be known as the finding of twelve men
upon their oaths. •

Affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Parliament met on the 8th of November, but
adjourned on the 1st of December to the 9th of Feb-
ruary. During this short session, Mr. Horner spoke on
several occasions.

TREATY WITH THE KING OF NAPLES.

On a motion for the House going into a committee on
the Army Estimates, on the 21st of November, Mr. Whit-
bread put some questions to ministers relating to some
proceedings of Lord Castlereagh at the Congress of
Vienna, more particularly with regard to a treaty be-
tween Austria and the King of Naples, Murat, to w^hich
the British government had become parties ; and a noti-
fication, signed by Prince Repnin, of a convention, by
virtue of wdiich the Emperor of Russia, in concert with
Austria and England, had placed in the hands of the
King of Prussia the administration of the kingdom of
Saxony. Ministers only partially answered the ques-
tions ; and the Chancellor of the Exchequer urged " the
impropriety of bringing forward into public discussion
every thing which formed the subject of discussion at

204 TREATY WITH THE KING OF NAPLES. [1814.

Vienna." Mr. Steiohen (Master in Chancery) took the
same view, saying, that " it would be a practice very
inconvenient for the House to have questions of this
sort daily put to ministers."

Mr. Horner replied to Mr. Stephen: he said that
" nothing could show more clearly the change that had
lately taken place in the j^ractice of parliamentary j)ro-
ceedings, than to find a gentleman of the experience
and ability of the lion, and learned member who spoke
last, condemn the practice of seeking information of
ministers. What had become of the functions of that
House, if, when ministers demanded a large suj)ply of
monej^, gentlemen should be told that it was irregular
to ask for what purpose it was wanted ? If, indeed,
there were any irregularity in this practice, it proceeded
from the much greater irregularity that had lately been
introduced on the other side of the House, in proposing
large grants of money, and great armies to be kept up
in time of peace, without condescending to inform the
House for what purposes they were wanted. The right
hon. gentleman desired them to wait with patience till
some future day, when those subjects might be discussed
with more regularity. He, however, conceived that the
House had a right to be informed generally of the state
of our foreign relations, although they knew that nego-
tiations actually pending could not, with propriety, be
communicated. His hon. friends, however, had not
asked about any thing that was doing, but about things
actually done. They did not ask what crimes were
meditating, but they wished to be informed about crimes
actually perpetrated. They did not inquire about an
act of Prince Repnin alone, but they asked whether this
act had not been sanctioned by Lord Castlereagh, and
whether this country was not thereby already commit-

iET. 37.] TREATY WITH THE KING OF NAPLES. 205

ted ? He saw no difference, in the principle, between
the annexations that were now making, and the tyran-
nical acts of that government against which we had
been so long contending. The only difference that he
could sec was, that instead of being the work of one
great spoliator, it was the work of many."

On the following day, Mr. Whitbread again brought
the subject of this treaty before the House. " It was,"
he said, " a treaty of alliance between the reigning King
of Naples and the Emperor of Austria, by which the
possessions of the former were guaranteed to him ; and
by a secret article in the same treaty, an accession of
territory was promised to him from the dominions of
the Pope, on condition of the immediate co-operation of
his army with the army of the allies. This treaty was
acceded to, on the part of the British government, by
Lord William Bentinck ; and a note signed by him bore
that, in case the Neapolitan government should not
exact the entering into a written treaty, but, relying on
the word of a British minister, should be contented with
a verbal engagement, the undersigned was instructed,
officially, on the part of the British government, to ap-
prove of the treaty; and that, if the English govern-
ment refused to sign a regular treaty, it was from senti-
ments of delicacy towards an ancient ally, the King of
Sicily." The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in reply,
stated, " The note itself assigned a reason for refusing
to enter into a treaty; and it never surely could be
contended, that the faith of the country was so pledged,
under such circumstances, as in the case of a regular
treaty ; but, at all events, when the circumstances were
fully known, it would turn out that this country had
fully performed all its engagements."

Mr. Horner replied to the Chancellor of the Exche-

VOL. n. 18

206 TREATY WITH THE KING OF NAPLES. [1814.

quer : lie said, " It was true there was no actual treaty
signed ; but, in the same breath, the minister of the
country said, although he would not sign a treaty, he
pledged his honour and the faith of the nation to the
execution of his engagement. The honour of the coun-
try was as much given to Naples as if the most solemn
treaty had been entered into. But there was an im-
portant consideration arising out of this business. It
had been stated last night, on the part of govern-
ment, in that House, that ministers possessed no infor-
mation whatever of any accession on the part of Lord
William Bentinck or Lord Castlereagh to the treaty
between Austria and Naples. The denial was not so
strong to-day as that which they had heard yesterday.
But, at all events, he hoped the House would not for-
get, that if there was any accession to this treaty on the
j)art of this country, ministers were in utter ignorance
of it : if there was any such thing, they were altogether
strangers to it. With respect also to the order of Prince
Repnin for the surrender of Saxony, they had no official
information respecting it. It had been stated, that Lord
Castlereagh had given his sanction to this order. If so,
the right hon. gentleman ought to have had official in-
formation of it. A Secretary of State had, in this
instance, been sent abroad, instead of one of the descrip-
tion of persons hitherto delegated. It would be ex-
tremely inconvenient to the House and his Majesty's
ministers in general, if persons holding high ministerial
offices should be sent abroad, who might not think fit
to communicate regularly with the government at
home, and thus keep his colleagues from being officially
informed of such important proceedings as the accession
on the part of this country to the treaty between Aus-
tria and Naples, and the order of Prince Repnin for the
transfer of Saxony to Prussia."

iET. 37.] TREATY WITH THE KING OF NAPLES. 207

The subject was resumed on the 25th, when Mr. Hor-
ner again spoke. " The House," he said, " had a right
to demand information, as it regarded the honour and
faith of the Crow^n in its foreign relations, which should
ever be dear to the House, whether we were not acting
contrary to our treaty with the King of Naples. We
had guaranteed to him the territory of Naples, with an
addition even of territory, which would explain his pre-
sent movements on the shores of the Adriatic, in the
march of Ancona, and the duchy of Romagna. We had
not pledged our honour to him on this subject gratui-
tously, but we had value received for our stipulation.
We had not rushed into the arms of Joachim Napoleon,
from any w^ish to secure those persons who had been
raised on the ruins of the ancient dynasties, but because
he had assisted us to overthrow the power which had
raised him. We had received his co-operation in Italy,
W'ithout which the movements of the allies, as well on
the Rhine as in Italy, would have been embarrassed.
Even at the time when Lord Castlereagh gave instruc-
tions to Lord William Bentinck to conclude the engage-
ment with Joachim, the co-operation of that monarch
w^as, he understood, necessary to render the position of
Count Bellegarde on the Mincio secure. The state of
our engagements with Joachim was this : — In xVpril
last, a treaty was concluded with Austria, which was
presented to Lord Castlereagh for his concurrence.
That noble lord returned the treaty with alterations
in his own hand-writing, which secured an indemnity to
the King of Sicily for Naples ; and which territory was
left to King Joachim, provided King Joachim should
withdraw his claims upon Sicil}^ The treatj^, thus al-
tered, was agreed to by Naples ; and Lord Castlereagh,
at Dijon or Chatillon, signified his concurrence in it.

208 miSII TE ACE-PRESERVATION BILL. [1814.

and stated, that the only reason Avhy he did not for-
mally accede, arose from motives of delicacy to the King
of Sicily ; but that, on his faith and that of England, he
pledged himself that that treaty should be acceded to,
and a peace, if j^ossible, negotiated, pari passu, between
the King of Sicily and Murat. The noble lord did not
rest there, but instructed Lord William Bentinck to
give the same assurance in writing which he had given
verbally ; and in consequence of the strange proclama-
tion at Leghorn, he wrote a despatch to remove the
possibihty of doubt ; to instruct Lord William Bentinck
to disavow that proclamation to the Neapolitan minister ;
to assure him again, that Great Britain would accede to
the treaty with Austria ; and that, if Ferdinand w^ould
not accept an indemnity for Naples, Great Britain would
not only desert him, but would support Naples against
him. And so strong was the feeling in Italy on this sub-
ject, that the Queen of Naples, the sister of Bonaparte,
made a declaration, (which, as coming from her, was
rather curious,) that she would rather confide in a decla-
ration of a British general, than a solemn treaty signed
and sealed with any other power. Such was the state-
ment, which had neither been admitted nor denied ; and
if it was true, he would put it to the House whether it
was not a violation of honour and good faith to send
money to Sicil}^, to enable her to recover that territory,
which we had guaranteed to another power."

IRISH PK\CE-PRESERVATION BILL.

On a motion, on the 25th of November, for the third
reading of a Bill brought in by Mr. Peel* then Secre-

* The present Sir Robert Peel.

JEx. 37.] AMERICAN WAR. 209

tary for Ireland, to amend an Act passed in the preced-
ing session, to provide for the better execution of the
laws in Ireland, commonly known by the name of the
Irish Peace-Preservation Act, Mr. Horner took occasion
to say, that " he had originally thought this Act, when
introduced by the right honourable gentleman (Mr.
Peel) a most unconstitutional one;* and of the princi-
ple of it he still entertained the same opinion ; but from
what he had lately heard, and particularly what had
fallen from his right honourable friend who had spoken
last, (Sir John Newport,) he was inclined to believe it
had been attended with salutary effects; and it gave
him the highest satisfaction to find that the Irish gov-
ernment had carefully abstained from acting on the
very extraordinary powers with which the Act invested
them. On this account, he did not feel inclined to give
any opposition to the progress of the present Bill."

WAR, WITH THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

On the 1st of December, Mr. Horner brought forward
a motion for a variety of papers relating to the conduct
of the naval war against the United States of America,
which he represented to have been such as to have
brought great discredit on the country. He pointed out
in detail the errors which he conceived the Government
to have committed in their mode of prosecuting the
maritime war, and the war on the Lakes, and also the
insufficient protection that had been afforded to the
trade of the country. That with regard to the maritime
war, notwithstanding the immense naval strength and
high naval skill we possessed, we had sustained many

* See ante, p. 160.

18*

210 AMERICAN WAR. [1814.

defeats, and no effectual means had been taken to
retrieve the tarnished histre of our character ; that there
had been a complete neglect of all the means that com-
mon prudence would suggest for the defence of our
Canadian frontier, and for carrying on the war on the
Lakes ; and that while he was ready to allow that all
the complaints of the ineffective means for protecting
our trade might not be well founded, he felt perfectly
assured that so uniform and so long continued complaints,
and representations to ministers from all parts of the
country, could not be without some solid foundation.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer, after expressing a
wish that his Majesty's ministers might not be prejudiced
on a question of such importance, said, " That he per-
fectly agreed in the importance of granting information,
and had no objection to the production of the papers
which Mr. Horner had moved for ; but that it would not
be becoming in him to enter into the different subjects
of the speech they had heard, as it would be best an-
swered by affording information."

Sir Joseph Yorke (one of the Lords of the Admiralty)
said, " That the Admiralty would wait till the papers
were produced before they made their defence, conscious
that the contents of those papers would afford them a
complete justification in the eyes of the public."

Mr. Horner, on rising a second time to move for the
production of another paper, said, "It was certainly
proper for the right honourable gentlemen opposite to
determine in what way they would meet the question ;
nor had he any fault to find with them, for they had
granted him the papers he required, and, from their con-
duct that evening, he should consider every charge he
had brought against them as undeniably true, until they
were contradicted. He could not, indeed, believe it pos-

JEt. 37.] AMERICAN WAR. 211

sible that men, sitting in their capacities, before parlia-
ment and in the face of their country, would patiently
endure such accusations if they could refute them, and
shuffle off the inquiry for three months longer ! What !
the ministers of the Crown, the ministers of a great
nation, ministers entrusted with all the affairs of govern-
ment, would they, if they could help themselves, say,
^ Three months hence the voluminous papers you require
shall be ready for you ; and when you have got them,
you may then fish out for yourselves the information
you want?' Novel as their proceedings had been on
various occasions during the present session, their pre-
sent conduct exceeded all that had been before witnessed.
But the best times of that House were gone by : they
had lost those men who, trusting to their own eloquence,
trusting to their own elevation of mind and character,
their wisdom and integrity, would have dared their
adversaries to the proof of accusations like the present ;
and not have sought to escape them by petty evasions.
Such a scene, as was now beheld, would not have hap-
pened in their days, whose example and precepts the
right hon. gentlemen opposite pretended to follow. He
would not repeat the name of Pitt — they could not
look up so high as that — but in the days even of Mr.
Percival, had a charge of gross neglect in the execution
of their duty, a criminal betraying of the interests of
their country, been preferred against the administration,
how different, how widely different, would have been
the conduct on the opposite side ! Any men, having the
feelings of men, any statesmen, having the feelings that
belong to their high condition, could not silently brook
the imputations now cast upon the right hon. gentlemen
opposite, without at least stating, in general terms, that
the facts advanced were untrue, and the inferences
unjust."

212 CORRESrONDENCE. [1814.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer rose after Mr.
Horner, and said, " that government was in possession of
more than sufficient information to refute all the facts
of the hon. and learned gentleman, but that he wished
the justification of ministers to rest upon authentic doc-
uments, and not upon his bare assertions ; and he would
repeat, notwithstanding all that had fallen from the hon.
and learned gentleman, that he was still willing, for the
present, to rest the case upon that foundation." Mr.
Wellesley Pole and Mr. Bathurst also rose on the part
of ministers, defending their conduct in general terms,
but resting their full justification upon the ficts which
the papers they w^ould lay before the House would
disclose.

Letter CCXXV. TO SIR JAMES MACKINTOSH.
My dear Sir James, Lincoln's inn, 6th Dec. 1814.

You may remember, the morning I saw you at
Coppet, that Madame de Stael expressed a desire to see
at full length a letter of Burke's, which was mentioned.*
I have copied it out of Hardy's book ; and will thank
you to give it to Madame de Stael with my best respects.
It was with much regret that I found myself compelled
to pass through Paris, without having time to wait upon
her at Clichy.

Our short session of parliament has not been inactive
on the part of Opposition : Tierney, in particular, made
considerable exertions, and gave us three or four speeches
of great ability and effect. While we were protesting

* Letter to the Earl of Charlemont, 9th August, 1789. See Hardy's
" Life of Lord Charlemont," p. 321. — Ed.

JEt. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 213

against the monstrous proceedings of the robbers at
Vienna, I never ceased to wish you had been in your
place to enforce our remonstrances. With ^ hat effect
this expression of what I believe to be the public opin-
ion of all England will be attended, rests with our min-
ister ; upon whom parliamentary control is not wholly
without effect, as is shown in the publication he has
made at Vienna of a treatise on the slave trade. A
treatise by Castlereagh in favour of the abolition, who
to the very last opposed the Bill of 1807 in the House !
When you see M. Gallois or M. De Gerando, I beg you
will give them my kindest respects ; and believe me, my
dear Sir James,

Most truly yours.

Era. Horner.

Letter CCXXV.* TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.

My dear Murray, London, loth Dec. i8i4.

I am coming down next week, and hope to see
you on Friday. Thank you for all your kind cautions
on the subject of cold and fatigue : I am sufficiently
careful, I assure you.

You have not given me any opinion upon my scheme
of wheedling the people of Scotland into unanimous
verdicts. I suppose you thought it not worth considera-
tion, which I suspected myself

As to the American war, the historical truth I take to
be, that we goaded that people into war, by our unjust
extension to them, while neutrals, of all the unmitigated
evils of maritime war ; and still more by the insulting
tone of our newspaper and government language ; and
that when the English nation came to its senses about
the Orders in Council, and the minister was dead, who

214 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

had insanely made it a point of honour to adhere to
them, by that time the American Government believed
that the continental system of Bonaparte had ruined
the resources of this country, that he was to become
lord of the ascendant, and that it was as well for them
to be on the best terms with the winning side. What
passed prior to the repeal of the Orders in Council may
fairly be regarded now as matter of history only, and it
is in that view of it that I consider the Americans as
noiv aggressors in the war j the ground of complaint they
had, we have relinquished ; their pretensions against our
maritime rights are matter of aggression.

You ask me about the general feeling of London and
England respecting the American war. I am convinced
it is at present decidedly unpopular. The want of suc-
cess, announced in so many repeated instances, had
gradually weaned the public from their idle dreams of
immediate subjugation ; for that was the fancy, and, in
this state of dissatisfaction, came that publication of the
Ghent negotiations, which jDroduced a great sensation.
I have so little confidence in the steadiness or principle
of the public sentiments, on matters of war, that if there
were some signal successes won by our troops or our
ships over the Americans, I should rather expect to hear
again the old cry for chastisement, and all the old vulgar
insolence. It is a sad misfortune to America, that they
have not had for President of their republic, during this
important epoch of their history, a man of a higher cast
of talent and public sentiment than Madison ; he has
involved them without necessity in war, and has debased
very much the tone, which a people destined obviously
for such greatness, ought to maintain.

Yours my dear Murray, affectionately,

Fra. Horner.

^T. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 215

Letter CCXXVI. FROM SIR JAMES MACKINTOSH.

My dear Horner, i'^"^' ^^th Dec i8i4.

On receiving your letter yesterday, my first
thought was to request you to call on Lady Mackintosh,
that she might read to you what I had written, when
the spontaneous communications of the Duke of Welling-
ton were fresh in my recollection. But on farther re-
flection, both on the unspeakable importance of the sub-
ject, and on the just authority of your opinion, I
resolved to request an interview with him, which passed
this morning, without any mention of your name.

He behaved, as he has always done in his conversa-
tions with me on this matter, with considerable apparent
frankness; and, whatever his original opinions might
have been, he seemed to have a fair disposition to do
his utmost in the discharge of his present trust. The
first act done by this government, in consequence of
discussions with the Duke of Wellington tending to limit
the renewed trade, was a circular letter from the Minis-
ter of Marine to the Maritime Prefects, in the end of
September, instructing them to grant no " automations "
(I know no corresponding term in our English usages)
to vessels fitted out for the slave trade, to the north of
Cape Formoso. Several other communications, in the
following month, to the Prefects and to the Armatews of
Nantes and Havre, convey the same direction, more or
less forcibly, but with the expression of a wish, that the
limitation should, for the present, not be much noised
abroad. On the 5th of November, the Duke of Welling-
ton laid before the Minister of Marine a set of regula-
tions for insuring the observance of this limited prohi-
bition ; of which the principal were, provisions to declare

216 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

all vessels and negroes coming from that part of the
coast — Prize, — as well as all slaves found on board any
vessel within forty leagues of the shore between Cape
Formoso and Cape Blanco, not being part of the crew
of the ship. To two of these regulations they objected j
— that relating to the payment of any sum to captors,
on the ground of poverty ; and to the establishment of
a hovering act along the ivhole coast, on the ground that it
was nautically inconvenient for ships to navigate, at that
distance from land, between Cape Formoso and Cape
Palmas. About a fortnight ago, they communicated to
the Duke ^iwojct de regkment, which is intended to be
published by the King, to carry into effect his declara-
tion of the 27th of May, by the immediate abolition of
the trade on that part of the coast, where it had actually
been abolished during the war. This is stated in the
preamble to be one of its objects ; and another is there
said to be, that of preparing the way for the universal
abolition, at the term fixed by the treaty. The greater
part of this reglement is pretty satisfactory : but they
have availed themselves, in a very suspicious manner, of
the supposed necessity for coasting to the south of Cape
Palmas. Instead of a prohibition of the trade to the
north of Cape Formoso, they have prohibited it in the
reglement only to the north of Cape Palmas. This would
be nothing, and is contrary to the principle avowed in
their own preamble ; for the trade had actually ceased
as much on the coast between Cape Palmas and Cape
Formoso as to the north of the former. But the Duke
intends to remonstrate on this strange substitution, and
he confidently expects that Cape Formoso will be in-
serted in the reglement, instead of Cape Palmas. He
originally proposed that the ships of war of each power
should have the right of enforcing the aboUtion laws of

2Er. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 217

the other. But he represents the government here as
fearful of being thought to be too much under Enghsh
influence ; and for that reason unwilUng to sanction the
principle of reciprocal seizure.

Lord Castlereagh and he had, it seems, suggested to
Talleyrand the necessity of a law on this subject, and of
course the concurrence of the two Chambers; but
neither Talleyrand, nor any of the other ministers,
admit such a necessity. They represent commerce as
being capable of being regulated by the King's preroga-
tive. Your question is, I conceive, not put as a French
Whig, but as an English abolitionist. If this regUmcnt
be held here to be a legal abolition, on the northern
part of the African coast, it is sufficient for our purpose.
To this information I venture to add, that, in my opinion,
it would be wise to give the ambassador a reasonable
time for obtaining this reglement on as good a footing as
he can, before any thing be done or said on the subject
in Eni2;land.

The Duke told me, though perhaps rather in a more
confidential manner than the rest of his communication,
that, in consequence of a conversation of Talleyrand
with Lord Holland, he (the Duke) had been authorised
to offer a colony for the immediate abolition ; that this
offer was at first pretty peremptorily rejected, but that,
since some discussions, in which he endeavoured to prove
the impossibility of recovering vSt. Domingo by arms, and
the wisdom of offering a charter to that island, which
should insure the liberty of the negroes, and procure as
much compensation as can be had to the ancient land-
owners, they have shown rather less aversion to the
exchange of their slave trade for a colony. It appears
that Talleyrand supports, in the congress, the measure

VOL. 11. 19

218 CORRESPONDENCE. [1814.

of an abolition by all Europe. You have now all that
I know or think on the subject.

Nobody can be here without feeling the great hatred
entertained against us by all ranks and parties. It has
been a little abated during the last three weeks, by the
debates of the House of Commons, which have been
more important, and I hope more beneficial, on the Con-
tinent, than at any former period of our parliamentary
history. The general sentiment wanted an organ, and
the only popular assembly in Europe partially supplied
it. You gave the sanction of a public body to the prin-
ciples of common sense ; and you have certainly contrib-
uted to all the success which may attend Talleyrand in
his new office of assertor of justice and protector of
weakness. I feel sorrow at having taken no part in
these good works. But at the beginning I consulted
my friends, among others your neighbour,=-= whether I
should return to the short session, or pursue my histori-
cal inquiries here.

I have been pretty successful here, though, for the
last three weeks, my public researches have been sus-
pended, in consequence of the hostility of Hauterive,
the absence of Talleyrand, and the jealousy of Lemon-
tey, who is writing the History of Louis XV., from the
archives opened to him by Napoleon. Mr. Falck is,
however, to send me a copy of King William's Corres-
pondence, by M. Fagel ; and, for my first volume at least,
I shall be very rich in materials. In the course of next
week I shall probably set out for London ; but if you
have any further inquiries to make, your letter would
probably still find me in Paris, and, at the worst, would

* John Whishaw, Esq., whose chambers adjoined those of Mr. Horner, in
New Square, Lincoln's Inn. — Ed.

^T. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 219

be taken care of, as I shall leave my son-in-law in my
lodgings ; which are, Hotel cle Bourbon, Rue de la Paix.
I am, my dear Horner,

Yours most truly,

J. Mackintosh.

Lktter CCXXVJI. from THE RIGHT HON. GEORGE
PONSONBY.*

Mv dear Sir Dropmore, 25tli Jan. 1815.

We who are here, Lord Grenville, his brother,
Elliot, Newport, and myself, have been talking over the
first operations fit to take place upon the meeting of the
House ; and we have agreed that the best motion to
begin with, (upon notice,) is one relative to America;
and that the best form will be to move for a committee
to inquire into the conduct of the war. The paper??
which have been published, and the peace which has
been concluded, since the adjournment, seem to rendei
such a motion peculiarly expedient ; for there can be no
doubt that the feelings of the country must be strongly
excited by the disclosure of the facts contained in those
papers, and by the conclusion of a peace, justifiable only
(in the opinion of those who concluded it) by necessity ;
a necessity arising solely from their own mismanagement
of the war. We hope you will concur in our view of
this subject ; and that you will have the goodness to
give, when the House meets, a notice of your intention
of moving for the Committee upon Thursday the 16th
of February. I am myself persuaded of the utility of
early and constant action in the House ; and I am sure

* At that time, the acknowledged leader of the Opposition in the House of
Commons. — • Ed.

220 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

the public interest demands and the public expectation
requires it. To our friends I have written some time
ago, requesthig their attendance ; and I have every rea-
son to be confident of their compliance.

I shall be in town, to remain, on Friday, and will en-
deavour to find you at leisure, to converse a little upon
these matters, very soon after.

I am, with the truest regard.
Yours,

George Ponsonby.

Letter CCXXVIII. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
My dear Murray, Lincoln's Inn, SOth Jan. 1815.

I thank you for your kind attention to all my
commissions, contained in my two last notes. I never
entertained any doubt that, upon the question of the
unanimity of verdicts, a concession must be made to
strong prejudice or misconception; as upon every other
part of the Bill, or of any new measure that respects
the administration of justice. The word iinanimUy has
done the mischief, which is none of ours. The princi-
ple of the English jury is no more than this, that they
should agree before they give in their verdict ; which,
practically, secures all those benefits of discussion, of a
disposition in all to be reasonable and moderate, and of
an opportunity still left to a single dissentient to have
his arguments heard, that would be excluded by the rule
of a majority. Substantially and j^ractically, in nine
cases out of ten, the verdict must go by the sentiments
of the majority ; but the operation is very different from
what it would be, if it went of course by the voice of the
majority. I cannot speak from much of what can be
called experience ; though, with something of that sort,

Mr. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 221

and with a good deal more of reflection upon the prin-
ciples that ought to regulate the constitution of courts of
justice ; but I own that my opinion is, without any hes-
itation, that the requiring of the jury to agree before
they give their verdict, and the taking it from them as
being said by them all, is a highly valuable part of our
existing system.

There is certainly no foundation for the distinction
with which I am honoured, it seems, at Edinburgh, of
being a convert to the Corn Bill. The more I have
read upon the subject, and the more I hear upon it, I
get more firmly fixed in my original opinion, that noth-
ing should be done ; of course it will be carried with a
loud clamour, and with much abuse of all lacJdand theo-
rists. It would be as absurd to expect men to be rea-
sonable about corn, as to be reasonable in matters of
relia;ion.

I do not imagine any new discovery is made about
the relation of the price of labour to that of grain, or
the effects of scarcity or plenty upon wages. The prin-
ciples, upon which all such effects must depend, are
obvious to every one who understands the operation of
demand and supply upon prices ; indeed, they are all
an application of that single principle. A great many
cases are necessary to be put, in order to distinguish the
various effects of scarcity or plenty upon wages, accord-
ing to the nature of the particular employment in which
labour is to be paid for ; but even when the effects are
the most opposite, it is still the operation of the same
principle. All this is stated well enough by Adam
Smith, towards the end of his chapter on the Wages of
Labour.

The most important convert the landholders have got,
is Malthus, who has now declared himself in favour of

19*

222 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

their Bill ; and, to be sure, there is not a better or more
informed judgment, and it is the single authority which
stao-crers me. But those who have looked closely into
his philosophy will admit, that there is always a leaning
in favour of the efficacy of laws ; and his early bias was
for corn laws in particular. It was a great effort of can-
dour, in truth, to suspend his decision upon this particu-
lar measure so long. I think I could demonstrate, from
his own principles of population, that if this measure is
effectual at all, it must be attended with great misery
among the manuflicturing classes, as well as among the
labourers in husbandry ; and with a violent forced alter-
ation of that proportion, in this countiy, between agri-
cultural and manufacturing population and capital,
which the freedom of both has adjusted, and would
continue to maintain, better and more lightly for all the
people, than can be effected by all the wisdom of all the
squires of the island, with the political arithmeticians to

boot.

Affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCXXIX. TO THE REV. T. R. MALTHUS.
My dear MalthuS, l-^^ February, 1815.

I have to thank you for sending me your two
new publications upon the corn question, which I have
read, and am still reading. You will think me very har-
dened, but I must own that my old faith is not shaken
by your reasonings ; on the contrary, I am even so per-
verse, as to think I have discovered, among your inge-
nious deductions respecting rent, some fresh and cogent
aro-uments in fiivour of a free corn trade for this coun-
try ; by which I always mean, as free a trade as we can

JEt. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 223

secure by our own good sense, however it may be im-
paired by the deficiency of our neighbours in that quaU-
fication. If tlic consequence of "high farming" and
curious cultivation be a progressive rise of the price of
produce, an importation of partial supplies from coun-
tries, which by a ruder agriculture can furnish it cheaper,
seems the provision laid by nature for checking too ex-
clusive an employment of capital upon the land least fit
for culture. It would be a palpable sacrifice of the end
to the means, if, for the sake of extending our most fin-
ished husbandry to every sterile ridge that can be forced
to yield something, we impose upon the whole body of
the people extravagant prices for the necessaries of life.
Nor do I see, upon your peculiar principles, what other
result there would be, if Dartmoor and Blackstone Edge
were laid out in terraces of garden-ground, but a popu-
lation always in some peril of being starved, if their
rulers will not let them eat the superfluity of their neigh-
bours. I have not leisure to write out in any systematic
form what has occurred to me, but I wish you would
allow me to suggest some objections to you, and to re-
quest farther explanations from you, on some points
which I have marked in a very hasty perusal of " The
grounds of your opinion." I mean to put them down
without any attention to order, and will stuff as many
of them into this letter as I have time for ; I have, in
truth, very little time for these speculations.

Why do you say, p. 28., that " in all common years,
France will furnish us with a large proportion of our
supplies?" This affirmation is not founded upon the
parliamentary evidence, which bears the contrary way.
The witnesses were not examined till a considerable
time after the signature of the Definitive Treaty ; yet,
in stating the various countries from which w^e are to

224 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

look for imports of grain, during the subsistence of
peace, none of them ever name France, or seem to think
of it ; although a great many foreign corn factors are
brought forward, and some whose experience goes back
for years, previous to the commencement of the long
war. They sa}^ indeed expressly, that they know but
one instance of an import from France, w^hich took place
after the harvest of 1809, and until the prohibition in
July 1810. That exportation was allowed by the French
government, to relieve the pressure of an excessive
plenty. But why did not the same motive operate more
frequently, if you are right in what you state, p. 13.,
that " prices have been often as low during the last ten
years as they were after the last harvest ? " And, by
the way, in your statement of the French prices in the
same passage, w^hich is made, of course, for the sake of
comparisons with our own, should you not have included
the difference of exchange, when you converted their
money into ours ? You talk of the law, made by the
two Chambers last summer, for the regulation of their
export price, as if it had cast quite a new light upon the
w^iole subject, and as if it, for the first time, had ad-
monished you of having too precipitately made admis-
sions of the favourable effects of a free trade. Had not
the French always such a regulation, if not the very
same?

You state, p. 5., that, by the recent improvements of
agriculture, " we had become much less dej)endent upon
foreign supplies for our support." What proof is there
of this ? The excess of imports does not appear to have
sensibly decreased of very late years ; it never was so
high as in 1810. The small quantity imported in 1812
(the accounts make it double what you state it to have
been) is in the following page, not consistently, I think,

Mr. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 225

used by you, not as a consequence of the increase of
our home growth, but as a proof of the difficulty of im-
portation. A fiict of this nature cannot tell both ways,
it seems to me.

Speaking from recollection only, I should not say that
it is a result to be gathered from the evidence before
Parliament, that " a continuation of low prices would,
in spite of a cUmimdion of rents, destroy farming capital,
and diminish produce." (p. 5.) The witnesses, who make
this prediction, generally at least, if not uniformly, speak
upon the supposition of the present rents being still to
be paid. I may observe, too, that they generally take
for granted, which is morefallacious, that with low prices,
and continued low prices, all the expences and out-
goings of a farm are still to keep at their present rate ;
and so they prove, demonstrably to their own conviction,
that a farmer will never be remunerated if he gets but
8s'. a bushel for his wheat at market, while he is feeding
all his ploughmen, and buying his seeds, and paying all
the auxiliary labour of the farm, wdth wheat at 125'. a
bushel.

You have made a fair allowance for the partiality and
interest of those who were called upon to (jive evidence.
You thought it would be indecent to give the same
indulgence, or rather you could make no allowance for
the bias of those who were appointed to take the evidence.
There are some very gross instances of this : see, in our
Commons' Committee, how they dispatch Charles Mant,
when he hints that the rate of the protecting price
should be estimated, not according to the present ex-
pences, but according to that very fall of grain and
labour, which are anticipated ; they huddle up that sub-
ject, and pass on in a hurry to other matters.

I think some portion of the same fallacy, wdiicli I last

226 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

mentioned, has slid into that part of ^^our argument, p.
24., where you point out the advantages the labourer
may derive from a high money price of corn, and conse-
quently high wages to himself Do not you assume that,
though corn should fall and bring down wages, yet there
will be no fall in the prices of any other articles of his
consumption ?

In considering the influence of a low price of corn
upon the condition and comforts of the labourer, you
have wholly omitted this consideration, that such a fall
will release thousands and tens of thousands from the
parochial pauper list, and restore them to the pride of
earning their bread by free labour. I could not read
without indignation, in the evidence of Mr. Benett, of
Pyt House, who seems the very model of a witness for
Corn Committees, his cool statement of the rule he
makes, and unmakes, for the distribution of rations of
provender and fodder among the prsedial slaves of a
whole district of Wiltshire. It is this audacious and
presumptuous spirit of regulating, by the wisdom of
country squires, the whole economy and partition of
national industry and wealth, that makes me more keenly
averse to this Corn Bill of theirs than I should have
been in earlier da3^s of our time, when the principles of
rational government were more widely nnderstood, and
were maintained by stronger hands at the head of affairs.
The narrow conceit of managing the happiness of the
labouring population, and of directing the application of
industiy, as well as the competition of the market,
works in the present day upon a much larger scale than
when it busied itself with the pedlar items of the foreign
trade.

You have stated, p. 27., rather like a skilful advocate
than quite fully, the experience of the last hundred

JEt. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 227

years respecting the fluctuations of the price of corn.
You have shown but one side of that experience, which
has two sides, very much alike. You take one period of
fourteen years, and show a considerable fluctuation, by
including remarkable years of dearth. This is during
the time of imports being in excess. But take another
period of fourteen years, while the excess was on the
side of exports; for instance, the period from 170G to
1720; the price of wheat in 1706 was 2Qs.; in 1709
and 1710 was 786.; in 1719 w^as 35^. Take the first
seven years of the last century, the average price was
oOs. ; in the seven subsequent years the average price
was as high as 57-5. In 1740, the price I find was 506'. ;
in 1743 only 24^.; in 1757 again 606-. After this, it
must be admitted that the argument concerning fludua-
tions rests still in tlieory ; and then mi/ theory would be,
that, upon the whole, nothing will contribute so much to
make prices steady as by our leaving our own corn fac-
tors unfettered by restrictions and regulations of our
own making; and, without embarrassment from that
source, to make their own arrangements for bringing
corn, when it is wanted, from the various large and inde-
pendent markets, of which, in the present circumstances
of the world, they have their choice. And though one
may argue from experience, it can never be a sound in-
ference from the state of prices, under the imports of
the last seven or eight years, to conclude that there will
be the same uncertainty in the new position of political
circumstances.

Though I have something more to object, I must
release you for the present. Excuse the perfect freedom
with which I have very hurriedly written these animad-
versions ; and treat me still as one of whose conversion
from heresy some hopes may be entertained. I should

228 TRANSFER OF GENOA. [1815.

be sorry you should set me down for obstinate, and
beyond repentance ; do not consign me to silence ; I do
not mind being consigned to the flames by Squire Wes-
tern and the rabble of Irish economists.
Ever very truly yours,

Fra. Horner.

P. S. By the way, I cannot part without saying how I
grudge my adversaries on the bullion question the lift
you have given them. Surely your corn zeal has les-
sened too much in your eyes, for the moment, the mag-
nitude of that evil.

The House of Commons met, pursuant to adjourn-
ment, on the 9th of February ; and on the 21st Mr.
Lambton =•'■ moved for a variety of papers relative to the
transfer of Genoa to the King of Sardinia ; which he
characterised as an act by which His Majesty's Ministers
had degraded England in the eyes of the world ; for
they had abandoned a pledge, given to a- nation invited
by them to independence. He stated that, in April,
1814, Lord William Bentinck, in a proclamation, had
told the people of Genoa, that their ancient government
w^as restored. That, in the name of the British govern-
ment, he appealed to their national feeling, — recalled
to them the days of their ancient prosperity, and pledged
his country to reinstate them in their former privileges.
That, notwithstanding all this, in eight months after-
w^ards, a mandate arrived from the Congress of Vienna,
annulling; all that had been done in favour of Genoese

* Afterwards Earl of Durliam.

Mt. 37.] CORN-LAWS. 229

freedom, and delivering up the country to the King of
Sardinia. That the transfer was made by a British pro-
clamation, signed by a British officer; — that in this
proclamation. General Dalrymple informed the people
of Genoa, that the government appointed by Lord Wil-
liam Bentinck had been delivered up into his hands ;
and that he surrendered it, by command of the Prince
Kegent of England, to the King of Sardinia/^

Mr. Horner is said to have made on this occasion " an
animated speech," in which he took a view of the con-
duct of the British government towards Genoa. The
report of what he said, as contained in Hansard's De-
bates, is given in the Appendix ; but it is so brief, that
it can be little more than an outline of a speech, which
could call forth the high encomiums that several eminent
persons, who heard it delivered, afterwards bestowed
upon it.

CORN-LAWS.

During the month of February, the subject of these
laws was several times under the consideration of the
House, and Mr. Horner appears to have taken an active
part in most of the discussions.

The Right Honourable Frederick Robinson -|- moved,
on the 14th, that, on the 17th, the House should resolve
itself into a Committee, to consider the state of the Corn-
Laws ; and he announced his intention of then submit-
ting a series of resolutions, preparatory to the introduc-
tion of a Bill ; and on the motion of Mr. Horner, some
returns were ordered, to render more complete the infor-

* Hansard's Debates, vol. xxix. p. 928.

t The present Earl of Kipon, who was at that time Vice-President of tlie
Board of Trade. — Ed.

VOL. n. 20

230 CORN-LAWS. [1815

mation that others, ordered on the motion of Mr. Robin-
son, were intended to afford.

Mr. Alexander Baring* moved, on the 15th, for
another return. Mr. Horner asked the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, " whether he intended to take the sense
of the House at once upon resolutions, Avhich had per-
haps been fully discussed, and unanimously carried, at
the house of Lord Liverpool, but of the grounds of
which, or the justness of the reasonings urged in their
support. Parliament could have no knowledge. In all
great questions, it had been the practice to communicate
some information, before calling upon the House to vote ;
instead of which, a sort of Lords of Articles had been
sitting in Whitehall-yard, to determine upon what should
be brought forward, and making a compromise of opinions.
He certainly did consider that such a proceeding had a
tendency to fetter the freedom of opinion in that
House."

Mr. Robinson brought forward his resolutions on the
17th, the most important of which were, in substance,
— that foreign corn, &c., might be bonded and re-ex-
ported without payment of duty ; and that the importa-
tion from foreign countries for home-consumption should
be prohibited altogether, until wheat rose to eighty shil-
lings the quarter, and other kinds of grain in the same
proportions as then existed; and that the same prohi-
bition should apply to our North American colonies,
until wheat rose to sixty-seven shillings. After a long-
debate, it was agreed that the resolutions should be
recommitted, ^^/'o /wv;^«, on the 20th, and the Report be
received on the 22d. On the latter day Colonel Gore
Langton, after stating that he was opposed to any change

* The preseut Lord Asliburton.

^Et. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE, 231

being made in these laws, opposed the motion for the
House going into Committee ; but only 6 voted with
him in a House of 203. On that occasion Mr. Horner
said, — "he came down to the House with a sincere
desire of hearing the question fully discussed ; for, how-
ever strong might be his own opinions, he thought it
due to the importance of the subject to hear the opin-
ions of all who had considered it, and to ascertain
the various modes in which the evidence which
had been adduced had struck various minds." The
debate lasted till two o'clock in the morning, and was
adjourned to the next day ; and then Mr. Horner deliv-
ered his sentiments on the question. -The report of his
speech, as given in Hansard's Debates, will be found in
the Appendix.

Another adjournment took place at half after three
in the morning to the 24th, when Mr. Robinson's resolu-
tions were agreed to. Another and a very long debate
took place on the bringing up of the Report on the 27th;
Mr. Baring proposed, and Mr. Horner seconded a motion
for adjournment, which was negatived ; but soon after-
wards the motion was renewed by Mr. Baring, and
seconded by Mr. Horner, and carried. The resolutions
were finally agreed to on the 28th, a Bill was brought
in next day, and, after long discussions in its several
stages, was passed on the 10th of March.

Letter CCXXIX.* FROM LORD HOLLAND.

Dear Horner Naples, 1st JVIarch, i8i5.

The King of Sardinia and the Pope have inter-
cepted all regular communication by post and private

232 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

hands, and extraordinary couriers are the only means of
intercourse, and in case either should occur, I write this
to be ready for the opportunity. You may be curious
about the court, both as a solitary specimen of the sort,
and as a dynasty which may be supposed to owe its ele-
vation to some merit, military or political. The King*
is a fine good-humoured soldier, too theatrical in his
dress and mode of playing royalty, but even his deficien-
cies calculated to put those with whom he converses
completely at their ease. He pays the English great
court, opens every privileged place to them, invites
them to fetes, balls, chases, and reviews, mounts those
who like to ride, talks openly on politics to all of them, •
and has this very day pardoned a delinquent condemned
to death, at the request of Lady Gage. At the same
chase one of his horses, lent to an Englishman, was
wounded by a boar, in a way that made it necessary to
shoot him on the spot. Such misfortunes, as well as the
loss of nine games of chess in fourteen to Lord Gran-
ville Somerset, and two in three to me, he bears with a
good-humour, natural enough in General Murat, but
quite uncommon in a King of Naples. His own taste,
or his Queen's, makes him abstain from all vulgar abuse
of Bonaparte, and preserve his pictures and busts in his
palaces.

The Queen is pretty, though in bad health ; her man-
ners are very agreeable and gentle, and she is said to
possess her full share of the abilities and decision of
character, for which her family are remarkable. She
has more consistency and a better understanding, than
her husband. It is an amiable trait in the latter that he
has been more attentive to her, since the fall of Napo-

* Joachim Murat.

Mt. 37.1 CORRESPONDENCE. 900

Icon, than when he was in power, and too frequently
made the umpire of their disputes. Joachim is evidently
uneasy, but by dint of saying to himself and to others,
that he can make a stout fight for it, and throw Italj'' in
confusion, he will, if driven to the wall, be induced to
attempt it, and may perhaps succeed in the attempt.
You know the Austrian treaty and Castlereagh's letter.
Joachim seems to adhere to the indemnity of 400,000
men, and to Ancona in particular, more than his own
execution of the stipulations j)erhaps warrants ; and
certainly more than justice to the governed can sanction,
or sound policy and discretion in his situation can
approve. In short, he has a little too much of the s^^irit
of a military chief, ^;o?rr nc pas dire nn avcnturier. To
excuse, or to support his pretensions, and the half formed
ambitious designs which sometimes dazzle his imagina-
tion, he has some personal qualities, some adventitious
circumstances, and an army strong at least in numbers,
though hitherto untried in its affections. I suspect him
of some such designs, or rather inclinations, and of a
keener appetite for indemnities and conquests than is
wise or honest ; from the manner rather than from the
substance of his conversation. He spoke of his adher-
ence to treaties, and particularly of his fidelity to the
Austrians, as an exertion of very painful virtue, and the
obvious weakness and unpopularity of the Austrians in
Italy are enough to tempt any Italian Prince of a war-
like character to a rupture, even if his elevation were
not such as to throw some doubts on the value of a
good character, to the attainment of which he may
think he is sacrificing much.

Of England, however, he is evidently afraid, and by
her councils, if treated well, he would be implicitly
guided. His personal qualities, to which I have alluded

20*

234 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

above, are great courage in the field, gallant, gay, open
manners, and great mildness and good nature to his sub-
jects; without reckoning the advantages of a martial
figure, and the accomplishments of horsemanship, &c.,
&c., which have at all times some effect on the vulgar
and on the soldiery, and are the more respected in Italy
from having been so rare in their princes and governors.
But Bonaparte knows him better than I can, and he
saj'S of him, c'cst iiu hrave militaire, Vhomme le ijIus hrilUant
que fai jamais vu dam tin champ de hattaille. Pas beaiicoup
de talens, pen de courage morale asscz timide, meme ijour
V arrangement dcs operaiions ; mais devant Vennemi tout cela
disparait ; c'est alors le coup d'oeil le plus rajyide, la valeur vrai-
ment chcvaleresqiie ; d'ailleiirs hel homme, par^ toiijours avec
beaiicoup de soin, qiielqiiefois un pteu fantasquement, enfin tin
magnifique lazzarone. His army is admirably appointed,
and some carry its numbers as high as 100,000 men.
There is, too, in it more military spirit than ever existed
in a Neapolitan or perhaps in any modern Italian arni}^ ;
and it is rather the attachment of the army to Joachim,
than its formidable character, which is questionable. If
he can reckon on their dispositions, he is a great inihtary
power. As to the affections of his people, and of those
whose territories are adjoining to his, and likely to be-
come the theatre of war, in short \i\& force morale^ as they
call it, it is perhaps very difficult to estimate it correctly.
He has for him the majority, or at least, the most active
and important, of the nobihty. Though the revolution
and the tribunals instituted by Joseph have reduced the
revenues and somewhat partially, and even unjustly,
deprived them of their rights, without sufficient indem-
nity ; yet they have not suffered confiscation or persecu-
tion from Murat, who has spared the property of his
most inveterate enemies, and never made political

JEt. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 235

offences subservient to his rapacity. They have gained
in pubUc consideration, and many of them are indemni-
fied for the losses they have sustained by the high
offices which they fill. Above all, they have nearly all
committed themselves far enough to preclude all hope
of forgiveness from Ferdinand's government ; the un-
merciful and vindictive spirit of which, is known to
them by experience, and heightened, rather than softened,
by subsequent misfortune. The men of letters (a small
class here) and the active men of business, (a very large
one,) are obviously interested in his support. The rich
merchants are averse to any change, and were they once
satisfied that England would acknowledge Joachim,
would be active and eager in his support. Such is the
full amount of any thing that can be called popularity.
As to the just claims he may have to them, though noth-
ing to the purpose of our present argument, it may be
interesting to you to know, that the general appearance
of the people and town is much improved, that obedi-
ence to the laws is more general than ever known in
this kingdom, and that great and useful, as well as
showy and magnificent works, have been executing and
are still in hand, such as the roads in the environs of
Naples, and through the distant provinces of the king-
dom, public establishments for education, the excavations
of Pompeii, &c., &c., the establishment of provincial tri-
bunals and the more uniform administration of justice;
and above all, the general and impartial system of hu)/-
ing, and the strict and incorrupt application of the reve-
nue when raised, are the brightest parts of his govern-
ment, and really surprising under a dynasty imposed by
a foreign force, dependent on it during its whole exist-
ence of five or six years, and labouring under the pres-
sure and privations of a war of twenty years.

236 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

Sucli is the bright side of the picture ; on the other
hand, a revenue which is as 31 to 5 compared with that
of Charles II., and as 31 to 11 with the highest year of
Ferdinand's government, cannot be raised without great
pressure of taxes, and the conscription is dreadfully
oppressive. These considerations weigh with the mid-
dling classes, and make them listen to the suggestions of
the priesthood and the tories, with more disposition to
embrace the cause of the exiled court than any personal
attachment to Ferdinand, or any deep-rooted regard to
a long line of princes, (neither of which sentiments can
make much impression at Naples,) would produce.
Among the very lower orders, Ferdinand is personally
popular ; and the rabble, in the frequent changes of gov-
ernment, have more than once tasted the sweets of a
pillage of palaces and libraries, in the course of these last
eighteen years, and would not be sorry to renew them.
The Lazzaroni, however, formerly a numerous body,
have been much reduced by the police and the conscrip-
tion. It is not easy to say how the soldiers would act,
if a war for the existence of Joachim's government were
to happen ; and it is, perhaps, yet more doubtful whether,
if that army were in the field in such a cause, an insur-
rection in this turbulent city might not palsy its exer-
tions, or recall Ferdinand to the throne. If his army
be steady, his people quiet, and England, I will not say
friendly, but land fide neutral, it is my opinion, strange
as it may appear to you, that Joachim could maintain
himself against France and Austria ; and if England
were really friendly, I believe it is more essential to
Austria to secure King Joachim's alliance, than it is to
Kino; Joachim to secure Austria. The alliance of Eno--
land, or two more years quiet possession of the throne
of Naples, will, I believe, make Naples rather than Aus-

^T. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 237

trill the preponderant power in Italy. What policy, then,
is it our interest to pursue ? This is for you in England
to decide ; but can it be your interest to restore a family
nearly connected by ties of blood, similarity of circum-
stance and feeling with France and Spain, recently irri-
tated with you, — who, if restored, will ascribe this
restoration not to you, but to France ? Can it be your
interest to disturb a prince whose cause with Spain and
France is desperate ; who can have no connexions but
with you and Austria, and who will feel for years not
only that he owed his establishment to England, but
that a friendly intercourse, and even alHance with
that power, is absolutely necessary to his security ? Can
it be your interest to substitute for the only government
in the south of Europe actuated by any military spirit,
capable of any military exertion, and independent of
France, a miserable, treacherous, bigoted and revengeful
Court, whose system of government can only prepare its
territories to be the prey to whatever military power
the turn of a battle may give a temporary preponde-
rance in Italy ? Such considerations, exclusive of the
disqualifications arising from his legitimacy and his crimes,
are in my judgment conclusive against Ferdinand; I
give my vote for king Joachim of that name the first,
whom England grant long to reign.

Yours ever,

Vassall Holl.\nd.

Letter CCXXX. TO IIIS FATHER.
Mv deir Sir Lincoln's Inn, 3d March, 1815.

I have had no time for writing lately ; for w^e
have had constant sittings in the House, and the Chan-
cellor has been driving through his paper at a hard rate.

238 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

I am engaged in so many of the causes that stand for
hearing till the holidays, that I have given up thoughts
of going the first part of the circuit, and shall probably
not join it till the end of Passion week, in Cornwall.
They have lately taken me into some Irish Chancery
appeals.

The Corn Bill has been well discussed, though carried
clamorously and precipitately. It is in truth a most
unwise measure, though I really believe that most of
those who vote for it have brouoht themselves to believe
that it may be serviceable to the agricultural interests
of the country ; at the same time, the most conscien-
tious of them cannot but know, they will be no losers
by it : for if it proves effectual at all, its operation will
be merely to save rents a little in their unavoidable fall,
and to gain this advantage to landlords, by putting the
people upon shorter allowance than they would other-
wise have. Petitions are now coming from all quarters,
and a good deal of heat is rising in the large towns;
but the bill will probably be out of our House, before the
petitions can be found in sufficient numbers to intimi-
date votes ; and in the House of Lords, the voice of the
people is not likely to be heard. I hear we are, in all
probability, to have wheat at a very high price, before
the middle of summer ; which may be attended with
some inconvenience, if the popular impression should
be, that that is owing to the new-made law.

We have had three excellent debates, on the militia
question in which Sir Arthur Piggott distinguished him-
self very much, and on the two cases of Genoa and the
Spaniards given up by the governor of Gibraltar, on
both of which occasions Sir J. Mackintosh made very
able speeches. The conclusion of the one he made
about the Spaniards was a finished and very eloquent

iEr. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 239

composition. I had a little success, in my little way, on
the Genoa affliir; it was an easy and most agreeable
subject to speak on : and in the other debate, I had the
satisfaction of expressing some very whiggish doctrines
about Ferdinand the Beloved. Excuse this egotism.
My kind love to my mother and sisters.

Ever affectionately yours.

Era. Horner.

Letter CCXXXI. FROM WILLIAM MURRAY, ESQ. * TO MR.
HORNER'S FATHER.

My dear Sir Temple, 8th Mcarch, 1815.

I cannot resist the opportunity which a frank
offers, of writing you a few lines of congratulation upon
the excellent appearances which your son has lately
made in the House of Commons. His speeches upon
Genoa and the Corn question I have heard mentioned
with the most unqualified praise, by some of the best
judges ; among whom I may mention Sir Samuel Romilly
and Sir James Mackintosh. The latter said, that " two
such speeches had never been made in the House of
Commons by the same person in one week ; or, at least,
not for a great many years." It seems now perfectly
understood that his character, as a speaker, is firmly
settled in the very first rank of the House of Commons,

What a pity it is that the speeches to which I allude
were so imperfectly given in the newspa^Ders !

Believe me, my dear Sir,

Yours sincerely,

Wm. Murray.

* See note. Vol. I. p. 307.

240 BANK EESTRICTION ACT. [1815.

BANK RESTRICTION ACT.

Another important measure of the Government in
this session, to which Mr. Horner naturally directed his
attention in its progress through the House, was the
renewal of this Act. On the first day the House met,
after the long adjournment, that is, on the 9th of Febru-
ary, the Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed, that on
the 13th the House should go into Committee to con-
sider this Act. Mr. Horner asked him, whether he
meant to propose the renewal of the Act, without first
moving for a Committee on the affairs of the Bank ; and
the Chancellor of the Exchequer having replied that he
had no intention of moving for such a Committee, Mr.
Horner next day said, — "he should move for the pro-
duction of such papers as would enable Members to
form some judgment on the state of the currency of the
nation, and the issues made by the Bank of England.
He conceived that an inquiry should be made into the
funds of the Bank, to ascertain whether the Company
would soon be capable of renewing their payments in
cash; and that this was an inquiry in which the feel-
ings of the country w^ere deeply interested. Without
more information than had yet been produced, it was
not possible for the House to form any accurate opinion
relative to the matter."

On the 16th of February the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer stated that, " w^hatever difference of opinion
might prevail as to the period at which it might be
practicable to resume cash payments at the Bank, he
apprehended that all were agreed that such jDayments
could not be resumed by the 25th March next, on which
day the Act would expire ; it was therefore necessary

Mt. 37.] BANK RESTRICTION ACT. 241

that a Bill should be brought in, to continue the Act for
a limited time." This was agreed to without opposition.
In the Committee on the Bill on the 2d of March, it was
agreed that the continuance should be to the 6th of
July, 1816 ; and on the bringing up of the Report on
the 7th, Mr. Horner said, —

"He was decidedly of opinion that the Bank ought
to resume cash payments as early as possible, and he
could not allow this opportunity to pass without enter-
ing his protest against the Bill altogether. The Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, who had said that he expected
the measure would not continue to be necessary beyond
July, 1816, he regarded as being pledged, not that the
Bank should resume its payments in cash at that time,
but that he would not lose sight of the subject. It was
a mere delusion to suppose that the Bank would resume
cash payments if left to themselves. Government must
interpose its authority ; for it was not natural that the
Bank should, spontaneously, give u]) the great profits
which they derived from the system of restriction. Was
it not a strange circumstance that, during the period of
our greatest foreign expenditure, and our largest im-
portation of grain, the price of gold was falling j and
that it was rising this year, when our foreign expendi-
ture was rapidly diminishing every week, and the im-
portation of wheat had ceased ? On the third reading
of the bill he should propose that a declaration of the
principle, that the Bank must resume its payments,
should be introduced. No one wished cash payments
should take place immediately^ but that ministers should
adopt the doctrine of the necessity of their taking
place."

On the third reading of the bill on the 9th of March,
Mr. Horner moved as an amendment, " That whereas it

VOL. II. 21

242 I5ANK RESTRICTION ACT. [1815

is highly desirable that the Bank should, as soon as pos-
sible, resume its payments in cash, immediately after the
passing of the present act, measures should be taken by
the Bank to enable them to resume such payments.
His object," he said, "in proposing this amendment was,
that the Bank should, in the fifteen months longer
allowed them, lose no time in preparing to resume cash
payments, and not consider this as a new lease of ex-
emption from paying in specie."

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, " he had no ob-
jection to the introduction of the first part of the amend-
ment, which expressed the desire of a resumption of
cash payments, as he himself felt a sincere wish for that
event ; but he would certainly object to the latter part,
which required the adoption of immediate measures for
that purpose." Mr. Horner consented to take only the
first part of his amendment. He said " that his purpose
in proposing the amendment was to record the differ-
ence in principle on this question. He agreed that the
Bank could not commence cash payments till the mar-
ket and Mint price of gold were the same ; but then the
Bank must take steps themselves to bring this about.
He contended that the present amendment was per-
fectly consistent with the Keport of the Bullion Com-
mittee. We had been already ten months at peace, and
by the present bill fifteen months were added to the
period of the restriction, which amounted to more than
two years. The House might rest assured that unless
Parliament interposed, payments in cash would never
be resumed by the Bank of England, whatever might
be the good wishes expressed by the directors in that
House. He then altered his amendment to the follow-
ing words : — ' That it is highly desirable that the Bank
of England should, as soon as possible, return to the

iET. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 243

payment of its notes in cash.' " The amendment was
agreed to.

Letter CCXXXII. TO EARL GREY.
Dear Lord Grey Launceston, 28tli March, 1815.

I cannot say how much I feel obliged to you, for
taking the trouble of writing to me so fall and satisfac-
tory an account of the sentiments of our different
friends at the present moment : they seem all of them,
upon the whole, more pacific than I was prepared to
expect. The preservation of peace for any length of
time is, I fear, a vain wish ; considering the parties, on
all sides, with whom it rests. But the manner of our
renewing the war is a point of principle, upon which I
dreaded more serious differences of opinion. These may
be saved probably by the immediate course of events,
or rather by the conduct of the single man who guides
or drives the events of our time. But if he should, in
the first instance, think it for his advantage, to hold out
terms of peace and moderation, a schism would seem
unavoidable ; at least for the interval of such a discus-
sion, between those who are for an immediate invasion
of France, because Bonaparte is sure in the end to play
his old part, and those who think that every thing is
gained for the justice and popularity of the war through-
out Europe, by forbearing to interfere in French affairs,
till aggressions are again attempted. It affords me the
greatest satisfaction to know, that the opinion I had
formed, upon this turn of circumstances, coincides with
that of your Lordship, in all points.

A war renewed now upon the footing of the Treaty
of Paris, will be in truth a war for the restoration of the
Bourbon family j coupled with a still more indefensible

244 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

principle, that of proscribing an individual to destruc-
tion. No successes would ever reconcile me to such a
war ; but by so recommencing it, we should multiply all
the chances against us. The entrance of foreign troops
upon French territory will give the Emperor, at once,
all the strength of French national enthusiasm ; certainly
not weakened by having been suppressed for a year, nor
by the insults which it has recently submitted to. If
the Austrians march across the Rhine, I suppose they
will detain the empress and the young boy as hostages ;
and that cannot fail to give Bonaparte an advantage in
the war, both among his own people and foreigners, of
all the interest and sympathy which such a circumstance
must naturally inspire ; and all this is to be done, with
the hope of forcing upon France a family, who, in a
year's possession of the throne, could not secure a dozen
bayonets to keep them in it ; and who were so utterly
insignificant, that they were not molested in their flight.
Believe me, my dear Lord,

Most truly yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCXXXIL* TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.

My dear Murray, Taunton, 3d April, 1815.

I am delighted to hear you are in Lincoln's Inn,
and wish much it were less uncomfortable for you. But
I shall have a better bed for you in Great Russell Street,
next time. I must contrive to be in town on Thursday,
for I have undertaken to argue the first cause in the
House of Lords on the followino; mornino*. For this, I
give up Sessions. I hope you will remain a full month
in London, and that in the course of it we shall contrive
to pass a few days quietly somewhere together, to have

Mt. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 245

more leisure for conversation tlian London usually
affords. God knows there is matter enough in public
affairs for much anxious conversation. I begin to feel
myself growing a mere fatalist about politics, we seem
so much the victim and sport of uncontrollable events.
I can bestow no thoughts at this moment upon the hap-
piness of the French nation, as concerned in the last
marvellous revolution of affairs ; they are so sunk in
my estimation, by their passive acquiescence under two
such changes of government, that I feel no interest
about their political or civil liberties. But the possible
consequences to our own liberties, of the conduct that
may be pursued by our government in the present new
conjuncture, do incessantly disturb and burthen my
mind. So many persons, in whose judgment and public
spirit I have the best confidence, are for hurrying into
immediate war, that I am afraid almost to inquire about
your sentiments on that point, lest I should find them
differing from my own. But my impression from the
first moment was, that we ought to give the Emperor of
France an opportunity of maintaining the treaty of
Paris if he would, and throw upon him the unpopularity
of being the first to make aggressions and to break the
tranquillity of Europe. These impressions were not
shaken by the authority of all the names subscribed to
the manifesto from Vienna, and they have derived of
course some addition of strength from the formal decla-
rations now made by Napoleon, of his relinquishing all
former schemes of a mastery over foreign nations, and
founding a great empire. Not that I place much faith
in these professions, for in forming a practical decision as
to what is best to be done, I would look upon them as
entitled to none at all ; although I think it not impossi-
ble that reflections in exile, and older years, may have

21*

246 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

given prudence some ascendancy in his plans, and not
wholly out of his character that he should set his ambi-
tion as it were upon a new theory of greatness for its
gratification. But in taking the practical determination,
what I would be guided by is this, that if we are to open
a new Iliad of war against the military power of France,
it is of the last importance that we should so commence
it, as to stamp upon it, in the opinion of the people of
the continent, its true character of a war of defence
merely against aggrandizement. By going to war now,
we go to war for the Bourbons, to force that feeble worn-
out race upon the French ; we go to war too upon a
still more hopeless, and in my sentiments unjustifiable
principle, that of proscribing an individual, and through
him the nation which has adopted him, as incapable of
peace or truce. It is obvious, that, proceeding in that
manner, we do what we can to inspire into the French
soldiery all the fire of enthusiasm, every feeling of pride
for their national independence, and the utmost devotion
for their great chief The argument used on the other
side, is, that in prudence it must be assumed that he will
act over again his old part as soon as he has collected
sufficient means, and that the interval should not be let
slip of overbearing him while he is miprepared with
the whole combined numbers of the allies. In this rea-
soning there are more assumptions than one, of which I
doubt the correctness. It is taken for granted, that he
could not now make head against such force as the allies
could push into his territory ; in which I apprehend
those who reckon the strength of armies by the tale of
numbers might be proved, by the issue of such an
experiment, to have forgotten in their estimate, that moral
force which must be breathed into troops by the romance
and marvellous [prestige], that accompany this last enter-

JEt. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 247

prise of this extraordinary man. It is assumed, too,
that the alHes are all to be had as they were last year ;
now Avithout considering the effect, which Bonaparte's
declaration, that he will maintain the treaty of Paris,
must have upon those powers which are in possession
of what they have usurped in Italy and in Germany, it
ought to be recollected, that these usurpations, and the
indecent spectacle which the allies exhibited during the
whole winter in their congress of plunder, have deprived
them throughout Italy and Germany of that moral force,
which tlwj boasted of last year, and with truth, as the
foundation of their successes. But even if these things
could be taken for granted, I question if it would not
still be but a short-sighted prudence, to reject the oppor-
tunity which his professions of peace and moderation
might afford of confirming in the public mind of Europe,
an impression of the justice of our cause in that war,
which, if it be renewed, will be one of no short duration,
and must in the course of it involve in all the vicissi-
tudes of fortune the best parts of the world. For Eng-
land, I own, I cannot see, if we are to have another
period of war, that ultimate success abroad, if to be
hoped, would compensate our sure and irreparable losses
at home; the inevitable insolvency of the Exchequer
must, in one disguised shape or other, bring on a dread-
ful convulsion of property, with the ruin of all those
families, whom the Courier, (resuming the ancient Jaco-
binical phrase of its Editor when he was the hireling of
violence of another sort,) stigmatizes as the drones of
society, the annuitants, those who live on the savings of
former industry ; and in addition to this calamity, we
shall witness the acceleration of that change, which is
already begun, of our old civil system of freedom and
law, for a military government. Such are my present

248 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

melancholy dreams ; sleeping or waking, they are about
my bed, and about my path, speaking most literally ;
for since this devil incarnate rose again from the dead
I have known no comfortable day. Some differences of
opinion among my political friends, are also come at last
to add a little to the annoyance ; but that is a trifle
compared with the dismal prospects that one has before
one's mind, for England and all that we are attached to.
I do not know if 3^ou could give me any comfort, by
helping me to less dreary views, but it would be some
pleasure at least to talk over these matters with you : I
wish you were in this green country with me for a few
idle days, it is more beautiful at present than ever ;

the spring,

All unconcerned with our unrest, begins
Her rosy progress smiling —

and furnishes a melancholy, but composing contrast to
the storms and perpetual winter of the political world.
I am much concerned to hear so bad an account of
George Ellis, and regret sincerely with you, that I have
not had an opportunity of knowing better a person of
whom you entertain so high an opinion. I have not
read the 3Iemoires Seer. Something I heard of them, or
something I accidentally saw on opening one of the
volumes, gave me an impression that they were un-
worthy of credit. Adam desires to be remembered to
you. Pray give his father what aid and comfort you
can about his bill ; he is sadly teazed by the ignorance
and want of reason of your Scotch heads, as you call
them.

Ever, my dear Murray,

Affectionately yours, ^

Era. Horner.

yEr. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 249

Letter CCXXXIII. TO IIIS FATHER.
My dear Sir, Lincoln's Inn, 10th April, 1815.

I have just time to acknowledge your letter of
the 7tli with its kind inclosure, having been all day at
the House of Lords.

I have a good deal to communicate to you, connected
with politics ; but it will be a couple of days before I
shall find time for so long a letter as I have in view.
You would not be sorry, I am sure, to see my name in
the small minority the other night, which voted that we
ought not to begin the war by an attack on France.
The question is a very difficult one, and upon which dif-
ferent views may be taken, even by those who are most
agreed upon political principles and objects. My deter-
mination was not taken without a great deal of previous
consideration, which my absence from London gave me
an opportunity of pursuing at leisure, and I did not
give that vote before my opinion was clear and satisfac-
tory to my own mind. The consequences, in the event
of immediate war, may be important to myself, with re-
spect to my seat ; but, of course, I saw all these conse-
quences, and gave them no weight. There are some
differences of opinion among our leaders, which may
never come to a difference in Parliament ; that depends
upon events ; but having had confidential communica-
tions with both the eminent persons to whom I allude %
I have found, in this instance, only fresh occasion to re-
spect the patriotism and public integrity of both. But
I i^hall be more particular, when I can find time to write
at length ; in the mean time, I request that you will

* Lords Grey and Grenville. — Ed.

250 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

keep the whole of this to yourself, with the exception of
Leonard ; for the time is not yet come for makino- any
such disclosure, and it is possible that the necessity of
making any disclosure may yet be averted.

The state of things at Paris is infinitely curious, and
not yet intelligible.

Most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCXXXIV. TO HIS FATHER.
Mv dear Sir Lincoln's Inn, 18th April, 1815.

Though no circumstance has occurred since my
last note, to terminate the suspense in which all politi-
cal affairs are at present held, or to break the silence
which mutual kindness and unwillingness to difier in ac-
tion have thrown over the differences of opinion that exist
among the leading persons of opposition, I feel it due to
the impatience which my note may have occasioned,
not to keep you any longer in ignorance of what has
passed about myself At the same time, I must request
you to observe still the same confidential secrecy upon
this subject ; on which it would be improper on every
account, and particularly on account of the kindness
with which I have personally been treated, that au}^ pre-
mature disclosure should come from me.

As I have already explained to you, I had formed my
own opinion, upon the new state of affairs produced by
the return of Bonaparte to France, before I left London
for the circuit ; and the leisure of travelling by myself,
and of the time I passed in the country, afforded me
an ample opportunity of reconsidering all the circum-
stances. It was but too certain that there had arisen
an entirely new conjuncture, in which there was to be

iET. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 251

expected a diversity of opinions, and in which every in-
dividual, having a seat in Parliament, would have his
vote to give according to his judgment.

Before I left London, I explained the views I then
took of the subject to Lord Grey, and requested him to
apprise me of any indication that might appear in the
party, of sentiments more inclined to Avar. During my
absence, I was apprised by him of a correspondence that
had passed between him and Lord Grenville, in which
the latter, with that frankness and public integrity
which mark every part of his political conduct, had
sought occasion to put Lord Grey in possession of the
whole of his opinions upon this new state of things.
The result was, the statement on Lord Grenville's side,
of an opinion that the maintenance of peace with Bona-
parte is impossible, and that our policy ought therefore
to be a renewal of the concert of last year for immediate
action ; on Lord Grey's, the opinion, that, even granting
war to be unavoidable in the end, it is the duty and
policy of this country, and of the allies, to take every
chance of maintaining the peace, and that a war imme-
diately begun, by an aggression against France, would
both want the justification of aggression by France, and
would involve the unjustifiable principle of interfering
with the right of the French to choose their own gov-
ernment.

I wrote to Lord Grey, and expressed the satisfac-
tion I felt in coinciding wholly with his sentiments ; and
then I turned myself to consider, how I should proceed
with most propriety and delicacy towards Lord Gren-
ville, in order to relieve him, or Lord Buckingham, from
the disagreeable necessity of making any communica-
tion to me, and at the same time to avoid every thing
like fuss or eclat in relinquishing my seat for a differ-

252 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

eH' e of opinion with those from whom I hold it. The
impression with which I came to town was, that I should
at once abstain from attendance in Parliament, and with
that feeling I declined attending a meeting held that
night at Mr. Ponsonbj's, for the purpose of considering
what was to be done next day upon the message from
the Throne. When I found, however, that Lord Gren-
ville's nearest connexions had attended that meeting;-,
and not only they, but those who are the most decided
upon the question of immediate war, such as Mr. Elliot ;
and when I saw that there was the most sincere anxiety
on both sides to avoid, or at least to postpone as long as
possible, any public declaration of the difference of
opinion, I thought it would be better, not yet to go
out of my own course, but to wait for the circum-
stances that would either force such declaration or
supersede it.

Upon the message, every thing went off as well as
could be desired in the House of Lords, in conse-
quence of the cautious, if not pacific, speech made by
Lord Liverpool : the same forbearance was highly de-
sirable to have been observed in the House of Com-
mons, but in that we were disappointed, partly perhaps
by a little forwardness on the part of Whitbread, but
much more by the tone of Lord Castlereagh's speech.
An amendment therefore was put to the question, ex-
pressive of an opinion unfavourable to immediate and
aggressive war ; and though many of the real friends of
peace, and of our surest adherents in politics, voted
against the amendment in consequence of Mr. Ponsonby
having committed himself hastily not to vote for any,
yet the vote being taken, I had no hesitation in going
out with the minority, and reflect upon that vote now
with the greatest satisfaction.

^T. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 253

When I went home that night, I found a note from
Lord Grenville, desiring to see me, in order to have
some conversation with me on the new state of affiiirs,
wliich the reverse in France had occasioned. This was
exactly what I most desired, and what relieved me from
every embarrassment. I waited npon him next morning,
(the 8th of April,) and shall now endeavour to state to
you as much as I can recollect of the conversation.

'[Here the letter terminates, and it docs not apjjear to have been sent. — Ed.]

Letter CCXXXV. TO FRANCIS JEFFREY, ESQ.
My dear Jeffrey, Lincoln's inn, 19th April, 1815.

I did not hear before of your being ill, nor of
your growing avaricious ; if your avarice and indisposi-
tion grow together, I shall not be very uneasy about
your health.

You did right, I feel quite certain, to save the garden
wall, at least for further consideration. Though I have
never seen it yet, my prejudice is much in favour of old
garden enclosures near a house ; shelter, and trimness,
and formality, and much variety and luxuriance of vege-
tation close to the house, are my notions of enjoyment
in a garden, which are all borrowed from Lord Bacon
and Sir William Temple's descriptions, with a little im-
provement from Price, and are diametrically opposed to
the late fashion of having nothing in sight of your man-
sion but grass, and that up to the door, and that close
shaven, in order that there may be as little of richness
in the vegetation as variety. I envy your occupations
at Craigcrook greatly ; for, of all things in the world,
what I most long to be at, is to be in my own garden of
Eden. I have a particular fancy for making a winter gar-
den, full of all the shiny evergreens that can be brought

VOL. IL 22

254 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

together; to have the enjoyment of their verdure on
those winter and s^Dring days of occasional gleam, which
diversify so delightfully our stormy climate. You
promise me shelter for our stoicism ; you can keep no
shelter but upon the old plan of a garden. I mean
certainly to come and see you in the course of the year ;
if I can manage it, in August and September ; and I fear
that by that time no ethics but stoicism of the severer
kind, taken from Epictetus rather than Marcus Antoni-
nus, will suit the condition of this poor world. We are
doomed, it seems, to a farther prolongation of those
pangs and throes by which the continent of Europe is
agitated, while she is throwing off feudalism, and the
divine right of kings, and the earthly rights of priests.
It is a dismal period to live in. I own, I think better
now than I did two years ago, of the ultimate result to
the other nations of Europe, and worse of the immediate
prospects of our own country. But the glimpse of
future sunshine is so faint and so far off, that it scarcely
relieves at all the gloom and discomfort of our present
circumstances.

I have not yet read much of the Review -, but in all
I have read I am satisfied and jDleased with the senti-
ments expressed on the subject of our relations with
France. All those greater politics are within your legi-
timate province ; and you do infinite service to the pub-
lic by expounding your opinions.

Affectionately yours,

Era. Horner.

Letter CCXXXVI. TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
My dear Lord, Lincoln's Inn, 28th April, 1815.

In the course of a conversation which Lord Gren-
yille had the kindness to seek with me some little time

JEt. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE, 255

ago, for the purpose of stating to me his views of the
new conjuncture in which our foreign poUtics are placed
by the late calamitous reverse of affiiirs, I took that
opportunity of requesting that he would have the good-
ness to mention to your Lordship, that I unfortunately
found myself differing, upon the question of peace or
immediate war, from the sentiments which I understood
were entertained by your Lordship.

I cannot, however, but fear, that by too long a delay
in making this communication myself, I may have pre-
vented your Lordship, in your kindness and delicacy
towards me, from proposing the new arrangement which
such circumstances suggest. The vote of last night
upon Whitbread's motion, in which I concurred, brought
us in the House of Commons to the crisis of those dis-
cussions, which are rendered unavoidable by the present
relations of this country ; and there seems very little
reason now to expect, that any change in those relations
can prevent the difference of opinion which exists from
being permanently marked to the public, in the daily
recurrence of jDarliamentary questions, in which that
difference of opinion must be acted upon in debate as
well as votes. As I have hitherto taken no part in them
but by my vote, I am very anxious not to leave your
Lordship in any uncertainty respecting the extent of
my opinions, as evinced by that which I gave last night
in support of Whitbread's motion.

I have never before expressed to your Lordship the
sense of grateful obligation which I have felt, and shall
ever continue to feel, for your kind and partial distinction
of me, in conferring upon me the most valuable of all
services. If any conduct of mine could tend to show me
worthy of that kind preference by your Lordship, I
know it would be in my wish to continue the important

256 CORrvESPONDENCE. [1815.

trust only so long as I can reconcile the discharge of it.
to my own ideas, however imj^erfect they may be, of
what is good and safe for the country. Having given
notice of two motions, the last of which stands for
Thursday next, I am desirous of performing these
engagements; after which I shall make every other
consideration give w^ay to that of consulting your Lord-
ship's wishes and convenience.

Believe me, my dear Lord, with the most sincere
attachment.

Your faithful and obliged

Era. Horner.

Letter CCXXXVII. FROM THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
My dear Sir, Buckingham House, 29t,h April, 1815.

I do not lose a moment in answering your letter.
I was quite sure that the honourable and delicate feel-
ings of your mind would induce you to make the offer
which you have done ; and Lord Grenville did ample
justice to those feelings in detailing to me the conversa-
tion to which you advert. Li contributing my assistance
to your parliamentary objects, I was actuated by a sin-
cere wish to be the means of giving the public the
advantage of great talents and pure honourable feelings,
in the House of Commons. I have derived the warm-
est satisfaction from the experience of the entire success
of that wish, and I shall feel the greatest regret if a
continuance of the expression of those honourable feel-
ings on your part should render the carrying into effect
of the measure you advert to in your letter necessary
for your own satisfaction. I will freely confess to you
that I will not relinquish the anxious hope which I en-
tertain, that the present difference of opinion which

^T. 37.] CORRESrONDENCE. 257

exists between us upon one subject will not lead to a
continued difference in our public line of conduct. I
am happy to say that I see many reasons why such a
result need not take place. Last night's vote does not
in the least weaken those hopes, or change that opinion.
Should, contrary to my hopes and expectations, events
take that turn which may render such a radical and
continued difference of opinion necessary, as may make
it irksome to yourself to express those opinions whilst
holding your present seat, in that case I will accept the
offer so honourably tendered by you now. But assure
yourself that I shall do it with the deepest regret, as I
look forward to a continuance of a connection between
us, so gratifying and so advantageous to myself, with an
anxiety which will make me eager to postpone to the
last possible moment consistent with your own feelings,
the doing any thing, or the accepting any offer, which,
though it may prove difference of public opinions, never
can diminish the sincere regard with which I am.

My dear Sir,
Yours very faithfully and sincerely,

Chandos Buckingham.

Letter CCXXXVIII. TO HIS FATHER.
My dear Sir, London, 3d May, 1815

I have been prevented by a good deal of busi-
ness of one kind or another from writing to you at the
length I promised, and partly, also, by circumstances
remaining still precisely as they stood when I wrote
last. I cannot, however, delay showing you, for your
own private perusal, the inclosed letters*, which I will

* A copy of his letter of the 28tli April to the Marquis of Buckingham, and
his Lordship's answer. — Ed.

22*

258 HOUSE OF COMJklONS. [1815.

beg you to return to me after you have read them.
They will explain themselves ; and I am sure you will
agree with ine in thinking, that nothing can be more
liberal than Lord Buckingham's manner of seeing this
business, or more strictly consonant to the honour that
should be the foundation of such a relation as subsists
between him and myself I had a conversation to the
same effect with Lord Grenville ; and nothing can ex-
ceed the satisfaction which I derive from the footinir on
which this matter is placed. I shall continue acting in
my own way, and upon my own opinions, until the
event, which I do not now anticipate, of a final separa-
tion ; and w^hen that takes place, which I shall on every
public account, as well as from private regard to those
who have treated me with so much kindness, extremely
lament, I shall then offer a second time my resignation.

I fancy I made heavy work of it last night. My
stings were drawn at the beginning, by hearing that the
jDapers were to be granted.

My kind love to my mother and every body.
Most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

TREATY WITH THE KING OF NAPLES.

The allusion towards the end of the preceding letter
was to a speech which he had made in the House of
Commons the preceding evening, in moving for the pro-
duction of papers relative to negotiations between Aus-
tria and the then king of Naples, Murat, to which the
British government had been a party. The motion re-
ferred to the same transactions as those to which Mr.
Whitbread had called the attention of the House on
the 22d and 25th of November preceding, on which

Mt. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 259

occasions Mr. Horner also spoke. (See p. 203.) But
this time, Lord Castlereagh, the minister more directly
implicated, was present ; and Mr. Horner, in a long
speech, entered into a detailed history of the proceed-
ings from the commencement of the negotiations.

"It would be for the noble lord to show," he said,
"whether the faith of this country, which he had solemnly
pledged, had been kept — whether the promises he had
made were redeemed. Let Austria, which had, unfortu-
nately for herself, no parliament to inquire into the pro-
ceedings of her government, answer for her own con-
duct; but it was incumbent upon the noble lord to
justify the part w^hich the British government had taken
in this transaction, chiefly through his agency. It was
for the noble lord to show whether, in this instance, the
British government had acted upon the just and liberal
principles professed in the celebrated Declaration of
Frankfort — upon those principles which the allies in
their proceedings at Congress, in their views of personal
aggrandisement, had so shamefully abandoned. These
proceedings, however, would remain for discussion. He
did not call upon the noble lord to enter into them at
present, or to make any disclosure upon the subject
which he might deem inexpedient; but he required
from the noble lord an explanation of what notoriously
took place with respect to Naples."

Letter CCXXXVIIL* TO MRS. DUGALD STEWART.

My dear Mrs. Stewart, Loudon, 4th May, isis.

I should not have been so long of writing to you,
if there had been any one day on which I knew any
thing for certain, or could form even a probable guess,

260 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

respecting that frightful question which is suspended
over us, Uke a black threatening cloud. It is manifest,
as far as our government is concerned, that war, if the
cooperation of others can be had, is decided on, and it is
understood that our general, the Duke of Wellington,
has been the instigator of those hurried and frantic de-
nunciations which have been issued from Vienna. He
thirsts no doubt for his old sport of war and military
rule, as much as that appetite can be imputed to Bona^
parte. His brother, the Marquis, who, upon the question
of peace as well as in the condemnation of the projects
of the Congress, is strongly in union with Lord Grey,
says, that Arthur is a great captain of infantry, the
greatest in the world, but will never be a statesman.
Some persons still flatter themselves with a slender hope
that one or other of the allies may shrink from the con-
federacy, and still avert the war. The diversion of the
Austrian forces on the side of Italy, the growing jea-
lousies between that court and Russia, and the absolute
want of money, of which both have reason to complain,
being so many grounds for this speculation. Meanwhile,
the state of Paris and the position of Napoleon are
almost a mystery in this country. The most recent
letters represent the friends of liberty, or those enemies
of liberty, the Jacobins, as acquiring daily a greater
ascendency : the new constitution is loudly condemned
as savouring too strongly of monarchy, and the indi-
viduals who were employed in drawing it up are fallen
into popular odium, — of these Benjamin Constant is
named. Upon Bonaparte's arrival, he took shelter in
the house of Crawford, the American minister, w^here he
supposed himself concealed for some days, till he re-
ceived a message from Fouche, who told him he was
putting himself to unnecessary inconvenience, for he

yEx. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 2G1

knew very well where lie was, and should be glad to
have his company at dinner next day. He was taken
out of his garret to be made Conseiller d'Etat. There
has been a report these two days that Bonaparte has
privately left Paris ; which has given rise to an expecta-
tion that he will appear somewhere at the head of an
army, and either overawe the flxctions of Paris or strike
some blow against the allies. It is not very likely that
he would venture to quit the capital, but upon an
understanding which in his own opinion he could trust
to, with Fouche and Carnot. So that if he has left it,
which I very much doubt, the second supposition is by
much the more probable of the two. It is even reported
that he has had a council of such of the Marshals as are
with him, in which he told them, they were to play a
game with the Great Captain who escaped from them
in Spain, and that he must have a victory before the
Champ de Mai. It is curious, that Lucien Bonaparte
is at present, or was very lately, at Geneva ; it is even
surmised that he has never been at Paris. An officer of
Murat, who arrived here on Sunday last with a fresh
offer of alliance, saw at Chamberry an army of 30,000
men, and was told by Suchet, at Lyons, that he had in
all 80,000 under his command. Bonaparte has taken
all the regular troops out of the garrisons, entrusting
them to the National Guards. I must add a word about
our own concerns at home. Though we are still in
dread of a public declaration in parliament of the dif-
ference of opinion which subsists between Lord Gren-
ville and Lord Grey, I have much better hopes now
than I felt originally, that this declaration, if made, will
be so narrowed to the single point on which the differ-
ence has arisen, as to preclude the necessity of a perma-
nent separation. This will depend altogether upon the

262 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

turn of events abroad. In the mean time, nothing can
be more consolatory, while there is a prospect of so
great a public calamity as that separation would be,
than the honourable frankness with which they have
explained their opinions to one another, and the regret
mutually felt on account of this unavoidable disagree-
ment. My kind regards to Mr. Stewart and to Miss
Stewart.

Very aJBfectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCXXXVIH.** TO MRS. DUGALD STEWART.

My dear Mrs. Stewart, London, soth May, i8i5.

I meant to have sent you a note after our divi-
sion, and to have told you, while our gladness was still
fresh, how well pleased we all were and continue to be
both with our strength in point of numbers, and with
the excellent conduct of many individuals. Persons
long accustomed to parliament look upon the divisions,
in both Houses, as large beyond example at the com-
mencement of a war, and such as promise a speedy ter-
mination of it, if success does not make us forget the
principle of our opposition to it, or a change take place
in the grounds upon which it is prosecuted. I place no
great reliance on such speculations ; the whole affair of
war, and all the politics connected with it, being a mere
chapter of accidents. But there is great comfort in the
fidelity and steadiness of so many public men to their
principles, after such repeated disappointments of every
hope, and under such a change of circumstances as
seemed to afford pretexts for being shabby. It is vain,
in my opinion, to consider the j^resent as any other than
a renewal of the old coalition of 1793 against the objects

2Et. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 2G3

of the French in their revolution ; it differs from that
war only in this, that the coalition of the despots is more
formidable, and that the French are without the defen-
sive enthusiasm arising from the possession, or the near
prospect, of liberty. The success of the allies will pro-
bably be fatal to the freedom of the world for an age to
follow, and though I sometimes try to flatter myself
there are chances against them, I cannot consider that
as the result of any reasonable calculation one can form,
and am filled therefore with the most gloomy apprehen-
sions. There is an idle story in the streets to-day, of an
expectation still entertained that somehow or other a
settlement will be made without hostilities; it is the
Bourbonists who circulate this speculation ; but it is no
more than their idle, confident interpretation of that
pause and stillness, which must last some time longer,
and which so dreadfully makes us sure of the calamities
that are coming. The last account I have heard of
Paris, is the detail of what passed in putting arms into
the hands of the lower people, in the Fauxbourgs St.
Antoine and Marceau. It was a measure, it seems, of
his own, without previous concert with any of his min-
isters. He set out alone on horseback in a brown coat,
into that quarter of the town ; was very soon recoo--
nized, and a cry set up that it was the Emperor, round
whom a great crowd was speedily collected ; he dis-
mounted, entered into familiar conversation with the
people, heard all their grievances ; they told him they
wanted bread ; he promised to find them employment :
they said they would have defended Paris for him last
year, if he had trusted them with arms ; he said they
should have them now ; a list of names was taken down,
before he left the spot, on which five thousand men
were enrolled. Next day a thousand of these were set

264 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

to work on the fortifications of Montmartre. If this
scene was so acted, of course there must have been pre-
paration for it ; it rests at present on the authority of
Adains, the American Minister.

The effect of this movement, so Hke the Days of Ter-
ror, is said to have been very striking ; all Paris became
silent and alarmed, a great many royalist families left it
next day. There was a check immediately to the
license of abuse against the Emperor, in speaking and
writing, which, from pamphlets and handbills I have
seen, was carried to an incredible excess.

My kind regards to Mr. and Miss Stewart.

Ever affectionately yours.

Era. Horner.

Letter CCXXXVIILf TO FRANCIS JEFFREY, ESQ.
My dear Jeffrey, Lincoln's inn, 2d June, 1815.

The letter I forward is from Sydney Smith, who
was in London for some weeks lately, and in better
spirits I think than in his former visit. I have been
looking out for a letter from you, for I had flattered
myself, that your reproach of too long silence to me
implied intentions of amendment on your side. But I
hear you have been very busy, and misemploying God's
gifts of speech in the defence of his profligate Scotch
Ministers.

I wish much to know your sentiments about this new
war in which we are embarked. You were so fierce a
warrior in 1803, that I almost dread to find you differing
in opinion from me on the present occasion; which
seems, however, much more nearly to resemble the con-
juncture of 1793, though with many incidental differ-
ences too, that may affect the success and result of
the war.

^T. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 265

But in principle, when you remove the specious pre-
texts which the aUies affect to throw over their proceed-
ings, surely their object is substantially to prevent the
French from having any king but a Bourbon, and from
consolidating the new institutions and laws that have
grown out of their revolution. An impracticable under-
taking, I believe, in the end, but they may have calami-
tous successes for a while. My present terror is the
conquest of France by the combined forces; which
whatever turn they may give to it, must produce lasting
mischief to the whole world. Whether it be the fate of
that country to undergo for some years a military occu-
pation by Cossacks and Pandours, or to be shorn for a
similar period of the frontier provinces necessary to its
defence as an independent nation. This appears to me
at present the most probable danger that threatens the
w^orld. Do n't suppose that I see none the other v^ny.
The renovation of the French ascendency in Europe
under such a military government as is forming anew,
w^ould be a calamity worse than we felt it before, for the
soldiers w^ho now lord it over the earth are becomino-

every year more uncivilized and unprincipled. But this
I feel for certain, that it is owing to our forcing a war
upon France in the present circumstances, that we are
reduced to the alternative of two such evils; when
perhaps we might have contrived to shamble on for a
few years of peace until some of its old habits were
formed again in all countries, and the chances of mor-
tality might have been improved to the advantage of
mankind.

Let me hear what is doing, or meant to be done, about
your Jury Court. That will be a great field for you.
The success of the new institution must in a very great
measure depend upon the exertions made by the bar,

VOL. II. 23

266 FACTORY CHILDREN. [1815.

and upon their skill in gradually adapting the Scotch
forms of pleading and the Scotch rules of evidence to
this new procedure. There is a great deal, too, to create.
It must all be done by the bar, and with so much genius
and philosophy as adorns the Parliament House at pre-
sent, it will be imputable to your indolence only, if you
do not give the thing a right impulse at first, and lay
those principles in the ground which will insure in proper
time a fair and fruitful system.

I beg to be kindly remembered to Mrs. Jeffrey, and
am ever.

Affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

FACTORY CHILDREN.

Sir Robert Peel ='' called the attention of the House,
on the 6th of June, to the expediency of some legisla-
tive enactment to restrict the labour of children in fac-
tories, and moved for leave to bring in a bill " to amend
and extend an Act made in the 42d year of his present
Majesty, for the preservation of the health and morals
of apprentices and others employed in cotton and other
factories." Mr. Horner supported the motion, and
said —

"That the former measures, and even the present
Bill, as far as he could understand its object, fell far
short of what Parliament should do on the subject. The
practice which was so prevalent of apprenticing parish
children in distant manufactories, was as repugnant to
humanity as any practice which had ever been suffered
to exist by the negligence of the legislature. These

* The father of the present Prime Minister.

^T. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 9f,7

cliilclren were sent often one, two, or three hundred
miles from their place of Ijirth, separated for life from
all their relations, and deprived of the aid and instruc-
tion which, even in their humble and almost destitute
situation, they might derive from their friends. The
practice was altogether objectionable on this ground,
but even more so from the enormous abuses which had
existed in it. It had been known that, Avith a bankrupt's
effects, a gang, if he might use the word, of these chil-
dren had been put up to sale, and were advertised pub-
licly as part of the property. A most atrocious instance
had been brought before the Court of King's Bench
two years ago, in which a number of these boys, appren-
ticed by a parish in London to one manufacturer, had
been transferred to another, and had been found by
some benevolent persons in a state of absolute famine.
Another case, still more horrible, had come to his knowl-
edge, while on a committee up stairs — that not many
years ago an agreement had been made between a Lon-
don parish and a Lancashire manufacturer, by which it
was stipulated that, with every twenty sound children,
one idiot should be taken. A practice, in which there
was a possibility that abuses of this kind might arise,
should not be suffered to exist ; and now, or in the next
session, when the Bill should be discussed, should meet
with the most serious consideration."

Letter CCXXXIX. TO FRANCIS JEFFREY, ESQ.
My dear Jeffrey, London, 13th June, 1815.

I had heard of your accident,''' but concluded it
to be a trifling wound, from Murray making no mention

* He had been struck in tlic eye by a fii-ework, on the king's birthday. — Ed.

268 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

of it. Your epitaph on yourself is the purest specimen
of the hipidary style, since the death of Cock Robin.
You must really leave off these very youthful adven-
tures ; at least do not be doubly indiscreet by aping loy-
alty as well as boyhood.

I am not going to enter again into the argument of
the war. It is a dismal subject to talk of with those
whom one agrees with about it ; and an irksome one to
differ upon. We now understand one another's expec-
tations and wishes; the upshot of a thousand accidents
will, a few years hence, decide which was more nearly
in the right. But there is one point on which I would
rather not be mistaken by you. You have an idea that
I entertain more admiration and less of hate for Bona-
parte than you feel : you have given me a hint of this
more than once, though I do not know from what you
can have collected it. I am the more surprised that you
should make such a mistake about me in the particular
instance, for my notions about him are derived very
much from my habitual sentiments respecting such per-
sonages and characters. I have no admiration for any
military heroes, conceiving it to be the least rare of all
the varieties of talent ; and I have a constitutional aver-
sion to the whole race of conquerors. I never felt any
interest in wars, either reading of them, or looking on
in our own days, except on the side of the invaded ; and
whether they be Greeks or Persians, Russians or French,
my wishes have always been in fiivour of each in their
turn, for the success of their defence. You may apply
this at the present moment in its fullest force. Bona-
parte never had any sympathy or applause from me;
besides his belonging to the odious herd of military dis-
turbers of the world, his genius is of so hard a cast, and
his style so theatrical, and the magnanimity he shows

jEt. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 2G9

(which cannot be denied him) is so far from being sim-
ple, and is so little softened with moral affections, that I
never could find in him any of the elements of heroism,
according to my taste. Conceive me to hate Bonaparte
as you do, but yet to wish (as I do fervently) for a suc-
cessful resistance by France to the invasion of the Allies,
and you are pretty nearly in possession of all my present
politics. Could I make the future to my mind, " sponte
mea componere curas,'' I would balance the success of the
war upon the frontiers of old France very evenly, and
would keep up the struggle for power at Paris, between
Napoleon and the constitutional party. For that there
is something of a conflict and compromise, at the present
moment, between the military chiefs and the partisans
of civil liberty, seems undeniable ; it may last only for
the moment ; but it is a glimpse of better days. I feel
very happy at the distinction conferred on old Lanjuinais ;
particularly, if it be true, that Bonaparte wished the
presidency to be given to that ruffian Merlin de Douay.
Though not occupying a place in the foremost rank,
Lanjuinais is found at every crisis of the revolution
from the meeting of the states-general ; ever moderate,
rational, and intrepid. What an enviable old age ! to
have entered on the struggle for public liberty after
fifty, to maintain his consistency through all the horrors
and all the disappointments of six-and-twenty years, and
when at last there comes another snatch of sunshine, to
be honoured with the confidence of every one who
thinks France still capable of freedom.
My kind compliments to Mrs. Jeffrey.

Ever affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.
23*

270 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

Letter CCXXXIX* TO HIS MOTHER.

My dear Mother, AVinchestcr, 4tii July, i8i5.

It seems a great while since I wrote to you, and
it seems much longer since you wrote to me. You
have not given me the hearty pleasure of a long letter
from yourself, for many a day. I won't pretend to rival
the grand-children in your favour ; for if that Avere pos-
sible, I would not steal from them any of your partiality,
but I am a little inclined to scold you for forgetting the
old solitary lawyer. I left town yesterday with Adam,
who is remarkably well. From this place we must cross
to Bridgewater for the sessions, which fall this time in
the second week of the circuit.

We shall therefore miss the assizes in Wiltshire and
Dorset, and shall go from Bridgewater to Exeter.

I was much concerned to hear of the death of Mr.
Feltes, who seemed to be an amiable young man. The
blow to his family is one of the severest that life admits
of; the irreparable disappointment of all the hoj)es
that gave enjoyment to their prosperity. How many
tragedies of the same sort accompanying the triumph of
the last great victory ! Some of the deepest are in Scot-
land. Such as poor Lady Delancy's case. The person
I knew best among those who have fallen was Sir Wil-
liam Ponsonby, one of the mildest and gentlest of
human beings ; but in the field always flaming with
enterprise. One of the last times I saw him, and his
cousin Frederick Ponsonby, who is also mutilated, I fear
for life, by many severe wounds ; it was at a dress
dinner ; they were both covered with orders and medals
won in the battles of Spain. Sir William has left a
widow and four daughters.

iET. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 271

We have lost Jekyll from our circuit ; he is made a
Master in Chancery by the Regent. The Chancellor
delayed the appointment in a manner the most disagree-
able to Jekyll's feelings, and then wrote him a very ful-
some letter, full of the pleasure he felt in conferring the
office upon him.

The Duke of Cumberland's disappointment will give
universal satisfaction. Never was the value of "-eneral

character so proved. This conduct of the House of
Commons makes an excellent contrast with their libe-
rality to the Duke of Wellington. The old Queen is
said to have been as eager against her son Ernest, as
any of us of the opposition, who had an old score against
him to pay off*; I know that several of her old cats from
Windsor were very busy abusing him all Saturday and
Sunday.

Good night, my dear mother, and give my affectionate
love to my father and all at home.

FflA. HORNE'.I.

Letter CCXXXIX.** TO THE HON. MRS. WILLIAM SPENCER.
Dear Mrs. Spencer, Winchester, 7th July, 1815.

I do not much like your account of yourself,
though you say you get strength ; for sleep and eating
are both necessary strengtheners, and you say you can
do neither.

I am thrown into very low spirits to-day by hearing
of Whitbread's death ; I have passed so much of the
last nine years of my life near him, that the rupture of
this habit merely would be painful to me. But under
his rough exterior, there were so many good and so
many great qualities, that to the end of my own life I
shall ever retain for him a feehng of affection, and much

272 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

reverence ; he had a manly, large heart, fearless and
generous and benevolent. There was an unbred vanity,
that gave a look of rudeness to his virtues, and upon a
few occasions even misled him into conduct that was not
perfectly to be approved of But there was a more con-
stant magnanimity and justice in all his actions, than
will be found in most of his latter contemporaries. He
had a genuine admiration of great merit in other men,
and passionately loved his country, as he most diligently
served it. I have been expecting to hear of his death
any day these last three months, though he was going
about till the moment he expired; but there were
symptoms that, compared wath his habit and make,
seemed to prognosticate apoplexy for certain.

You must direct your next letter to Bridgewater j for
I am going off the circuit to sessions. God bless you.

Faithfully yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCXXXIX.f TO THE DUKE OF SOMERSET.

My dear Lord, Exeter, istb July, 1815.

I am much obliged to you for sending me Glas-
serton's note from Naples.

I knew enough of Mr. Whitbread to respect him and
feel attached to him, in spite of his faults of manner ;
and I regard his loss in the House of Commons as a very
serious diminution of the public strength. He was a
man of intrepid justice and constancy as a member of
parliament ; and no one ever loved his country more
cordially, or more prided himself in all its honours and
glories. He was not qualified in any respect to be a
jDolitical leader, and he was very far from being well
informed either upon the foreign concerns of the coun-

iET. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 273

try, or thoroughly enlightened in the principles of do-
mestic legislation. But as a single independent com-
moner, and a watchful guardian of constitutional rights
for the people, he displayed, for many years, a force of
character as well as talent, that, in the present dearth of
men of genius or ascendency in parliament, made him
the most conspicuous and the most usefid man of his
time. He cannot be viewed, properly speaking, as a
statesman ; but he was the very model of that sort of
public man, bred in the House of Commons, and the
native growth of that soil, whose proper function is to
keep our statesmen to their duty.

No doubt is left as to the nature of the disease which
led to his death. Some of those who lived intimately
with him, now recall various instances that recently
occurred in his conduct of a momentary aberration of
mind ; and since the examination of the head, I under-
stand the medical people have pronounced, that he
must have been soon in violent phrenzy.

I wished much to have been able to offer you a visit
at Bulstrode before the circuit, but till the day I left
London I was completely occupied. In the course of
next month, I look forward to it with much pleasure.

I beg to be remembered to the Duchess, and am ever.
My dear Lord,

Your Grace's faithful servant,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCXL. TO HENRY IIALLAM, ESQ.
My dear Hallam, Exeter, Saturday, 22d July, 1815.

I am very much afflicted to hear of Rose * hav-
ing had so serious an attack upon his feeble constitution.

* William Stewart Rose, Esq.

274 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

If you hear any farther account of him before I return
to town, I wish much to know it.

I thank you very much, and Sir Abraham Elton too,
for your kind inquiries after my heahh. It gave me
much regret at Bridgewater, that I was forced to be so
neglectful of the attentions which I owed him on that
occasion. But I w^as much incommoded then, and have
been since I left town, by an attack of a complaint to
which I have been subject of late, and which is more an
inconvenient illness than a serious one at present. I
have been induced to stop here, instead of going with
the circuit into Cornwall, in hopes of being made well
by a week's repose. I am certainly better already, than
I was at Bridgewater.

The event that has most agitated me since I parted
from you, is the death of Whitbread, which you men-
tioned with sentiments that gave me a real pleasure ; for
I shall ever respect his memory, and with something like
aflfection too, for the large portion of my life which, in a
certain sense, I consider as having been passed with him,
and for the impression he had made upon me of his
being one of the most just, upright, and intrepid of pub-
lic men. As a statesman, I never regarded him at all ;
he had no knowledge of men or affairs, to fit him for
administration; his education had been very limited,
and its defects were not supplied by any experience of
real political business : but he must always stand high in
the list of that class of public men, the peculiar growth
of England and of the House of Commons, wdio perform
great services to their country, and hold a considerable
place in the sight of the world, by fearlessly expressing
in that assembly the censure that is felt by the public,
and by being as it were the organ of that public opinion
which, in some measure, keeps our statesmen to their

^T. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 275

duty. His force of character and ability, seconded ]jy
his singular activity, had, in the present absence of all
men of genius and ascendency from the House, given
him a preeminence, which almost marks the last years
of Parliament with the stamp of his peculiar manner.
His loss will lead to a change of this : in all points of
taste and ornament, and in the skill too and prudence of
debate, the change may probably be for the better ; but
it will be long, before the people and the constitution
are supplied in the House of Commons with a tribune
of the same vigilance, assiduity, perseverance and
courage, as Samuel Whitbread. The manner of his
death quite overwhelmed me, I could think of nothing
else for days together ; nor do I remember, in our own
time, another catastrophe so morally impressive, as the
instantaneous failure of all that constancy, and rectitude,
and inflexibility of mind, which seemed possessions that
could be lost only with life ; yet all the while there was
a speck morbid in the body, which rendered them as
precarious as life itself

Pray give me your speculations upon the present
state of France, so problematical, so pregnant with future
consequences. For you always improve and correct my
judgments, even when we differ most widely ; though
we do not agree about immediate means, nor in some
respects about the principles w^hich we like to see in
action, the thing we both wish for, in the end, is the
same; that well-ordered liberty, wdiicli gives the best
chance for general tranquillity, and the only chance for
national welfare. It is evident the present state of
things cannot be lasting ; the occupation of such a coun-
try as France by foreign troops. They may be kept
there long enough to devastate the surface of the terri-
tory, and to keep the Bou.bons a few years nominally

276 CORRESrONDENCE. [1815.

upon the throne. But do you believe it practicable for
the Allies to accomplish the restoration of that family,
and then to leave them to carry on the government
with French hands and French guards ? or, on the other
hand, do you consider it as practicable for the French to
be permanently subjugated by the foreign soldiery ? It
may be a long while before the peasantry, and the
townsmen, betake themselves to assassination in detail ;
but to that horrible extremity I think it must come at
last, if the Prussians and Russians remain. The geogra-
phy of France is not very advantageous for guerillas, but
there are other advantages in the habits of the people,
from their discipline and docility. Depraved as the
French are, the reaction of French patriotism will be
dreadful and resistless. And I must own that my Avishes
are decidedly for the deliverance of that country, by
the exertions of its own people, from the conquest of
their invaders. I am conscious that I can honestly and
purely cherish this wish, without abating a jot of that
wholesome distrust of France which we must always
keep up, as our enemy in Europe ; but along with this
distrust, I retain also so much of the notions of the old
school, as to feel persuaded that France, as a separate
country, is an essential member of the European system.
But how idle it is to speculate, when the fate of the
world is in the hands of Metternich and Castlereagh.

I hope Mrs. Hallam is now quite recovered, and that
the children are in great vigour. Let me hear from you
very soon.

Truly yours,

Fra. Hornek.

iET. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 277

Letter CCXL.* TO HIS MOTHER.

My decar Mother, ^-^^t^'"' 23<i J^lv, i8i5.

I am much concerned to hear that by the death
of Mr. G., his wife is left in a very destitute situation
with several children, and I wish you to enable me,
through yourself, to contribute a little to her present
assistance. I can easily and with very sincere pleasure
give £20 a year for this purpose, if you will undertake
to manage the giving of it in such a way as will be least
disagreeable to her feelings. But I must make one con-
dition about it, and that positively, that you say nothing
about me in the matter, but give it entirely from your-
self I know how much satisfaction you derive from
any opportunity of being kind and attentive to any one
connected with you, and it is for the sake of putting an
additional satisfaction of that sort in your way, that I
wish to make this arrangement, not but what I would
feel myself bound to do the little I could at any time
for any of Mrs. G.'s family, who have always shown so
much worth and propriety in their conduct. You must,
however, let me do this for the present in my own mode,
as it may be convenient to the poor lady to have some-
thing immediately. I enclose two £10 notes of the
Bank of England. My kind love to my father, and
every body in Charlotte Square, and at Whitehouse.

Yours most affectionately,

Fra. Horner.

VOL. II. 24

278 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

Letter CCXLI. FROM HENRY HALLAIkl, ESQ.
My dear Horner, ^^^l? Office, 26th July, i8i5.

Since I last wrote to you, I have seen Mrs. Spen-
cer two or three times, and think she is better than I-
expected to find. The long continuance of her illness
is certainly alarming, but I wish to hope that she may
finally weather it. I have heard more of Rose since I
wrote to you last. The accounts are certainly as favour-
able as could well be hoped ; and his family entertain a
hope, on the authority of his physician, that the seizure
has not been paralytic. However this may prove, I
hope it has not proceeded from constitutional failure.

It is very difficult to form any speculations upon the
state of affairs in France. I never remember any poli-
tical crisis where there was so little to guide our antici-
pations. It is a very thick fog indeed. What can be
more wonderful, than that the actual capture of Bona-
parte, an event beyond all calculation, and which
seemed the consummation of the present contest, should
not raise our stocks, and hardly our spirits ? The real
difficulties arising out of this extraordinary crisis are not
much applams by possessing his person ; though it is
certainly an important event, if it were only as it sim-
plifies the course we ought to pursue.

It is always with diffidence, as well as with regret, that
I differ from you, as we sometimes do differ, in my poli-
tical theories ; and I should feel this sentiment still more
strongly, if I did not think that our disagreement was
generally more owing to different opinions as to matters
of fact, than to any thing incompatible in the bases we
should adopt. You only do me justice in supposing
that we are united in desiring the prevalence of well-

JEt. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 270

ordered liberty. I am sure that I have no jealousy of
this liberty in France, nor any undue prejudice against
that people. On the contrary, from the circumstance
of my reading having lain a good deal in French history
and literature, I have acquired a sort of partiality to
them, which makes me ready to forgive their great na-
tional faults. But I certainly have formed an opinion,
that France has a better chance for tranquillity and
permanence of government, and consequently for lib-
erty, which never survives a series of incessant revolu-
tions, under the Bourbon dynasty, than under any other
dominion, which, in her present circumstances, was likely
to arise. The strong and general desire for a liberal
government, and aversion to the ancient absolute mon-
archy, made it, in my judgment, very unlikely that the
court of Louis XVIII. or his successors could, for many
years to come, materially infringe upon those privileges,
which, as conceded in the charter of 1814, appeared to
be sufficiently ample for the public welfare ; and I saw
a great advantage in adhering to the ancient family,
and, as far as possible, to the ancient denominations and
forms. As, in England, at the Revolution, it was abso-
lutely necessary for our liberties to change the reigning
family, because the national prejudices ran very strongly
towards passive obedience and hereditary right; so I
think it equally necessary, for the sake of permanent
established government, and, consequently, of liberty in
France, to preserve the hereditary title of her sovereign,
because all those principles and sentiments which tend to
the maintenance of actual establishments require to be
strengthened. The moral securities of government are
strict religious principles of obligation, sober and steady
habits in domestic life, and the point of honour in keep-
ing promises. All these are miserably weak in France ;

280 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

and I see no means so likely to restore them, as the
habit of paying obedience to government as legitimate,
and even as prescriptive. Though the prejudices of one
party, and the adulatory spirit of the people, may some-
times occasion a language to be spoken, repugnant to
our Whig principles, yet, as France is, and must be,
there would be, I think, little or no probability of an abso-
lute power being established in the person of a Bourbon.
These w^ere my reasonings in last spring. What
France may think, is quite another question. I have
not space to enter on the vast topic before us. But I
concur with you (though we stand nearly alone) in de-
precating the dismemberment of that country ; not only
from its ultimate effects on Europe, but as the certain
spring of new and more dreadful struggles. I do not
much expect that any such event will happen. Russia,
I now hear, and always expected, is taking a mediatorial
line. She could gain nothing, except by arrangements
on the side of Poland, to which the other two 230wers
would hardly consent, for the sake of precarious acqui-
sitions in Alsace. We go to-morrow to East Bourne.
Let me hear from you there.

Faithfully yours,

Henry Hallam.

Letter CCXLL* FROM HIS MOTHER.
My dearest Frank, White House, Edinburgh, 28th July, 1815.

I have this moment had the very great comfort of
receiving a letter from you. As your father and I have
been rather uneasy from a letter Anne received from
Leonard, wherein he mentioned your having been un-
well, but at the same time said that you were better,
your father wrote to you yesterday, and although not a

JEt. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 281

post day, the good man at the post-office said that they
would forward it. Mr. Ker is up to every thing good
and benevolent. Now, my beloved son, let me return
you my most hearty thanks for your own well-timed
friendship, and may I be thankful to Heaven for allow-
ing me to be your mother. I am infinitely more grati-
fied than if you were raised to the highest office in the
state, — there you are liablp to trouble and change, —
in your kindness to the widow and the orphan you have,
and must have, an inward satisfaction far beyond any
the other can bestow, and here your pleasure must be
permanent. May God Almighty bless you, and preserve
you as a blessing to all your family ; you are considered
as such by every member, and beloved with the most
ardent affection.

The £20, which came quite safe, I shall not fail to
give it in a way that I am bound to observe ; at the
same time, the person it is designed for is so deserving,
that I think it a pity she should not know from whence
it comes. But as to your fixing any annuity, I am
against it, — every day convinces me how many changes
take place, and how different people conduct themselves
in these changes. Pray write and say how you are. By
a kind note I had from Lord Webb Seymour with some
fruit, he told me he had a letter from you of the 17th;
but ease my mind. We all look forward to your visit
to Scotland with delight. How I long to see my darling
— every one does so. God bless you. Your father
and Anne unite, in every wish.

To your truly affectionate mother,

Joanna Horner.

24*

282 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

Letter CCXLII. TO HIS MOTHER.
My dear Mother, Bridgewater, 29th July, 1815.

I have received all your kind letters of anxiety
and reproach about my not writing, but before I got the
first of them, two were already dispatched from me, one
of which was written the very hour I heard from you,
after your long silence.

I was within a very few miles, at Exeter, of Bona-
parte in Torbay ; a number of people went down to
get a glimpse of him, and all the worthies of Torquay,
and the other watering-places, went out in shoals.
Nobody was allowed to go on board; but they were
happy to row round the ship at a little distance, and
catch a sight of him as he walked the quarter-deck.
How little did we dream of the possibility of such a
change, when we were at Torquay ; he was then in the
midst of his plans and preparations for the invasion of
Russia, the most wonderful of all his exploits after all,
though it led directly to his fall. The only thing worth
noticing of what I have heard respecting his behaviour
on board the Bellerophon is, that he never made any
allusion to political events.

You will believe I am much pleased with your ac-
counts of Whitehouse*, and Anne and the children, and
the happy time you and my father have been spending
with them. You cannot be too minute or too frequent
in such accounts, when you have leisure to report them
to me at full length.

I was in hopes when I began this letter that I should
have time to write to Fanny at least, if not to others of

* IVIy own residence near Edinburgh, to which I had recently removed
from London. — Ed.

iET. 37.] CORRESPONDENCE. 283

the family, to all of whom I am in debt. But I must
still put off payment, for I have some work to do. By
way of compensation and a great deal more, I will en-
close for you and them a letter to peruse, which you
will particularly like, as it is full of horrors ; it is from
Charles Bell, giving me some account of his visit to
Brussels, where he had the spirit to go for professional
instruction, among the wounded, after the battle of
Waterloo. It is written with great feeling, and with
much genius, too, for observation, under the most
overwhelming circumstances. Send it to me again with
great care, for I should be sorry to lose it. My kind
remembrances to my father and the ivhole tot.

Ever most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCXLIII. FROM CHARLES BELL, ESQ.*

My dear Horner, 'Jub'. i8i5.

I write this to you, after being some days at
home, engaged in my usual occupations, and conse-
quently disenchanted of the horrors of the battle of
Waterloo. I feel relief in this, for certainly if I had
written to you from Brussels, I should have appeared
very extravagant. An absolute revolution took j)liice
in my economy, body and soul ; so that I who am known
to require eight hours sleep, found first three hours,
and then one hour and a half sufficient, after days of
the most painful excitement and bodily exertion.

After I had been five days engaged with the prosecu-
tion of my object, I found that the best cases, that is,
the most horrid wounds left totally without assistance,

* The late eminent anatomist, Sir Charles Bell.

284 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

were to be found in the hospital of the French woimded.
This hospital was only forming ; they were even then
bringing these poor creatures in from the woods. It is
impossible to convey to you the picture of human misery
continually before my eyes. What was heartrending in
the day, Avas intolerable at night ; and I rose and wrote,
at four o'clock in the morning, to the chief surgeon
Gunning, offering to perform the necessary operations
upon the French. At six o'clock I took the knife in my
hand, and continued incessantly at work till seven in the
evening ; and so the second day, and again the third
day.

All the decencies of performing surgical operations
were soon neglected : while I amputated one man's thigh,
there lay at one time thirteen, all beseeching to be
taken next ; one full of entreaty, one calling upon me
to remember my promise to take him, another execrat-
ing. It was a strange thing to feel my clothes stiff with
blood, and my arms powerless with the exertion of using
the knife ; and more extraordinary still, to find my mind
calm amidst such variety of suffering ; but to give one
of these objects access to your feelings was to allow
yourself to be unmanned for the performance of a duty.
It was less painful to look upon the whole, than to con-
template one object.

When I first went round the wards of the wounded
prisoners, my sensations were very extraordinary. We
had every where heard of the manner in which these
men had fought — nothing could surjDass their devoted-
ness. In a long ward, containing fift}^, there was no
expression of suffering, no one spoke to his neighbour.
There was a resentful, sullen rigidness of face, a fierce-
ness in their dark eyes, as they lay half-covered in the
sheets.

^T. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 285

Sunday. — I was interrupted, and now I perceive I
was falling into the mistake of attempting to convey to
you the feelings which took possession of me, amidst the
miseries of Brussels. After being eight days among the
wounded, I visited the field of battle. The view of the
field, the gallant stories, the charges, the individual
instances of enterprise and valour, recalled me to the
sense which the world has of victory and ^yaterloo.
But this was transient, a gloomy uncomfortable view of
human nature is the inevitable consequence of looking
upon the whole as I did — as I was forced to do.

It is a misfortune to have our sentiments so at vari-
ance with the universal sentiment. But there must ever
be associated with the honours of Waterloo, to my eyes,
the most shocking signs of woe ; to my ear, accents of
entreaty; outcry from the manly breast, interrupted
forcible expressions of the dying, and noisome smells. I
must show you my note books, for as I took my notes
of cases generally by sketching the object of our
remarks, it may convey an excuse for this excess of
sentiment.

Faithfully yours,

C. Bell.

Letter CCXLIII.* TO HIS MOTHER.

My dear Mother, Ho wick, iiih October, isis.

You will have heard from my two companions
how we proceeded on Monday. By Murray's care and
contrivance, instead of a head-achy postchaise all the
way to Hermiston, we had horses to mount at Dalkeith,
and made a fine ride of it first to Oxenford, and then by
way of Ormiston and Saltoun to Lord Gillies's. Oxen-

286 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

ford is a comfortable handsome place, with almost an
English look; among the rubbish of family pictures,
there are some portraits of people that deserve to be
cared for — such as Dr. Robertson, Adam Ferguson, and
Sir James Stewart. There is a sign-post image of David
Hume, which gives the idea of a glutton and a blun-
derer. We found the Dalrymples were going to Her-
miston likewise. In the v^ay, besides Ormiston, Avhere
we saw some fine trees for Scotland, I had a glimpse of
other places I had often heard of, such as Winton, Pen-
caitland, &c. The Gillies's were very agreeable ; they
have improved each other much. There are some old
portraits in that house too, of the connections of the
Sinclair family ; the only one worth naming is a head of
Mrs. Grizell Baillie, the daughter of Sir Patrick Home,
whose story is so interesting and amiable. On Monday
forenoon, we went out in a body, ladies and all, with
greyhounds, and had what is called a good day's sport,
in slaughtering eight or ten hares, and frightening as
many more. After that we walked over the grounds
at Saltoun, and went through the house ; we had not
leisure to examine the library in which old Andrew
Fletcher's books are preserved, many of them (it is said)
with notes of his. There is a picture of him, which
interested us greatly ; it is a countenance of keen and
refined feeling, not without effeminacy. I have thoughts
of asking permission to have a copy of it. With all his
faults, he had an elevation and purity of character,
rarely if at all to be found in any other Scotsman of any
age who has meddled with politics. Lord Gillies gave
me his carriage early next morning to go to Hadding-
ton, and Murray went with me ; we got there in time
for me to take breakfast before the vehicle from Edin-

^T. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 287

burgh arrived, which gave me the pleasure afterwards
of a good long walk from Dunbar, Avhile the other tra-
vellers halted. I was set down at Alnwick by six o'clock,
in good time to reach this [town], which is not more than
six miles off. I was glad to see Lady Grey in better looks
than I expected j she is a great object of my admiration,
for her beauty, and still more for her character. I shall
stay here till to-morrow evening; by sleeping at Aln-
wick, I expect to have a good chance of a seat in the
mail on Friday morning.

I have heard at full length and in the original lan-
guage the old Queen's letter, of which some account has
been given in the Chronicle, published there probably
b}^ her dutiful and pious son the Duke of Cumberland.
It is the letter of one most seriously expecting and
encouraging the person to whom it is addressed, to come
over into England, with a great deal of advice how she
ought to conduct herself and conform to the manners of
this country. It is very hard for us to say how far royal
dissimulation and artifice may be carried ; but I can as
little understand how the Queen could disapprove of the
marriage at the time she wrote this letter, as how she
can justify the inconsistency of the sentiments expressed
in it, with her subsequent conduct to her daughter-in-
law. It would have been difficult too, to conceive how
far thrift could be carried in the royal house of Strelitz ;
her present to her brother is six pounds of tea, and two
cheeses.

Lord Ossulston is the only visitor here. We have had
a walk with Lord Grey round the pleasure grounds, and
along the sea-shore, which is bold, and I am now going
to have a ride to an old castle of the Tankerville family,
called Dunstanbury, which made a figure in the Wars of
the Koses.

288 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

My kind love to all the two houses of Charlotte Square
and Whiteliouse.

Most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCXLIH.** TO J. A. MURRAY.
Mv dear Murray Taunton, 20th October, 1815.

If I find the Culloden papers at Bowood I will
read them, and mention to you whatever strikes me.
The favourable impression you have received from them
of Forbes's* character is a very pleasing one, and I
hope you will meet with nothing to disturb it. There
are so few instances of pure or elevated public virtue to
be met wdth in the modern annals of Scotland, that it
w^ould be something gained for the country to place him
in that light. It is a very rare distinction to have first
purified the administration of justice in his country, and
one would expect to find corresponding sentiments
throughout his conduct. That union of zeal and gen-
tleness w^hich you speak of, is the most delightful excel-
lence to find in the course of an active practical life. It
w^ould be right to apprize Mackintosh of there being
papers at Yester, to which he could find no difficulty in
getting access. Did Thomson find any thing at Saltoun
that morning? I hope Mrs. Murray continues well.
Give my very kind remembrances to her and Miss Mur-
ray, as well as to William.

Affectionately yours,

Fra. Hornee.

* Lord President of the Court of Session in Scotland, from 1737 to 1747.

^T. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 289

Letter CCXLIV. TO HIS SISTER, MISS HORNER.
My dear Fanny, Bowoo.i, 2Gth Oct. 181.5.

I told you I was reading Don Roderick the Goth ;
and notwithstanding the romance of the original story,
it was with fatigue that I got through it. I am not sur-
prised that the book has had a run, because there is a
romantic story, and because it is seasoned with metho-
distical cant to the taste of the times ; but that the work
should be commended by any person of cultivated taste,
as it has been, seems to me strange. With the excep-
tion of a few passages of mere description, I found none
containing much poetry; and such as there is, little
more than a string of the images and expressions that
are familiar to every reader of the poets.

I found lying here a new tragedy with the title of Fazio^
written by Mr. Milman, son of the London physician.
It is worth your reading. Though full of great and
oljvious faults, they are those of a young writer, who
has not studied the decorums and contrivances of his art ;
and in spite of them the composition affects you strongly,
which is the one thing needful : there is a power of
writing, and still more a depth of feeling, which with
good discipline may make him a great dramatic writer.
I hope he will receive encouragement from the reviews.
He is said to have offered this play to Miss O'Neil for
her benefit, and there is a character in it that would
have suited her ; but she said very sensibly, that she did
not feel herself sufficiently established with the audience,
to venture upon a new piece. In its present state, I do
not imagine it would have success upon the stage. Sneyd
Edgeworth, whom you remember in London, has pub-
lished memoirs of the Abbe Edgeworth, the confessor

VOL. II. 25

290 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

of Madame Elizabeth, who attended Louis XVI. in his
last moments. A short narrative by the Abbe himself
of what passed at the Temple, and still more a letter
upon that subject, and upon his own escapes, addressed
to a brother in Ireland, are written with a simplicity and
truth of manner that is interesting^ and deliorhtful.

The Romillys are expected at home this week. They
have been as far as Genoa, and Dumont accompanied
them. His spectacles were swept away by an Alpine
torrent in the Bochetta,

Ever yours affectionately.

Era. Horner.

Lktter CCXLIV.* to EARL GREY.
Dear Lord Grey, Bowood, 27th October, 1815.

I am so much gratified with the pohtical con-
duct of a friend of mine, of which you are not likely to
hear immediately, that I cannot deny myself the plea-
sure of writing to you on purpose to mention it. It is
James Macdonald I mean, who sits for the county of

— ' . He did not return from the continent till near

the end of last session, and had no opportunity of giv-
ing any vote but upon the Duke of Cumberland's ques-
tion, in which he and Lord voted on opposite

sides. But he was so little satisfied with the ambiguous
manoeuvring of that family, with which he is so nearly
connected, or with the conclusion to which it manifestly
tended, that he took upon himself to explain his
own opinions, and to desire an explanation of theirs.
After some evasion the corresjDondence has ended in
their accepting his resignation, and he is to take the
Chiltern Hundreds on the first day of the session. Mac-
donald has the greater merit for acting in this way,

2Et. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 291

that he had formed no political connexion but with

Lord , by which he was in the smallest degree

j)ledged to particular opinions; and that during the
whole of that period, which has put men to so strong a
test, from the first overthrow of Bonaparte to the last
declaration of war, he was abroad.

I hope Lady Grey continues to gain strength, and
that you will present my best remembrances to her.
Believe me, my dear Lord,

Ever faithfully yours,

Fka. Hoener.

Letter CCXLIV.** FROM EARL GREY.
My dear Horner, Howick, ist Nov. isis.

I received your letter of the 27th by the last
post, and I am most sincerely obliged to you, for the
account you have been so good as to send me of the re-
sult of Macdonald's explanations with Lord .

You could not overrate the interest I take in it, nor the
esteem which I must feel for such conduct. Without
personal obligations or connections which could bind
him in any degree, he has made a sacrifice to public
principle, which, even amongst the many proofs of disin-
terestedness which the party now in opposition has fur-
nished, must stand in the first rank. Great, however, as
the gratification is which I must derive from an example
of this character, and which so strongly sanctions the
opinion I had formed of Macdonald, I confess it is not
unaccompanied with regret, when I reflect how little the
public are inclined to do justice to such sacrifices. On
my own account, I can look back at nearly thirty years
spent almost in a constant opposition, without regret.
But when I see so many of my friends excluded from

292 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

the situations in which their talents and integrity would
have made them so useful, without the possibility, even
in the event of any change, of retrieving lost opportu-
nities, and in some instances, as in this, with the aggrava-
tion of family division, I cannot help experiencing a
good deal of pain in the reflection. I am happy to tell
you that Lady Grey's health is considerably im^^roved
since you were here. Pray remember me very kindly to
Lord and Lady Lansdowne, and believe me, dear Horner,

Ever most truly yours,

Grey.

Letter CCXLV. TO HIS SISTER, MISS HORNER.
My dear Fanny, London, 22d Nov. 1815.

I met the Chevalier Canova a second time at
Holland House a few days ago ; and it was indeed a
most agreeable day. The other artists we had to meet
him were Wilkie and Westmacott, but he was himself
the only person that any body thought of He talked
a great deal, partly in French, which he pronounces
very ill, partly in Italian, which I am told he s^^eaks also
as a provincial, for he is a native of Venice, but always
with animation, spirit, and cheerfulness. I told you of
his looks ; a fine forehead, with sunk mild eyes ; his
manners are simple and easy, perfectly in the tone of
good compan}^ His brother is with him, the Abate
Canova, a man of learning and classical attainments ;
they live constantly together, and their habit is, that
the Abbe reads to Canova, while he is at work with his
chisel, out of some Italian classic, or translation of the
ancients. This sounds very amiably and like complete
friendship.

He was naturally led to talk of Napoleon, and he was

^T. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 293

pressed to tell us something of those scenes of familiar
intercourse which that personage usually permitted him-
self to indulge in Avitli Italians, though never with
Frenchmen, and which he was known to permit espe-
cially with Canova. He told us that Napoleon con-
versed with him in the Venetian dialect, which he was
fond of, a circumstance which of itself would render
their conversation more equal and familiar, and was
probably so intended. He urged him to settle at Paris,
but this he declined, saying, he should die of cold in less
than a year. I have heard that he added another rea-
son, that he was not qualified to vie with the Parisian
artists as a courtier ; but this he did not repeat to us.

The new expedition for the Niger, which sailed lately,
is fitted out in a very liberal style : Government has
only been stingy upon one point, the allowance to be
held out to the black soldiers who accompany the
expedition, as their reward for returning back to Sierra
Leone. This is the very point on Avhich the success of
the travellers may depend, and I fear the allowances
are not large enough to prevail over the strong inclinar
tion those blacks will have to remain in their own coun-
try when they reach it. The stock of articles laid in
for the traffic of the travellers, and for presents, has cost
twenty thousand pounds; it is curious that the most
expensive article is coral, of which they have taken four
thousand pounds worth, and two thousand pounds worth
of amber. If I can finish some business to-morrow, in
which I am engaged, I mean to accompany Whishaw on
a visit for a couple of days to Sir James Mackintosh : he
lives near Aylesbury, and is deep, I hear, in historical
composition. I shall write to my mother very soon ;
my kind love to them all. Very affectionatelj' yours,

Fra. Horner.
25*

294 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

Letter CCXLVI. TO J. A. MURRAY.
My dear Murray Woburn Abbey, 28tli Nov. 1815.

We have fallen into our bad habit of last year
again, of not writing as we used to do, and ought to do.
If we do not take care, it will become inveterate. This
time it has come on my side, from not having found the
Culloden papers at Bowood, and so losing that oppor-
tunity of writing to you about them from thence ; and
afterwards fancying I should be able, when I returned
to town, to steal time enough from the term for reading
them. By this time, I hope you have printed your
account of them.

I am impatient to see the Review for another reason,
to know what Jeffrey's speculations are about France ;
for he seems to have given different persons in London,
with whom he talked about them, the most contradictory
impressions of his opinions. His ingenious powers of
diversifying the views of a great subject are a copious
source of instruction to those who submit to the duller
task of patiently forming a judgment, that is to remain
upon their minds ; and the assistance which one derives
from his inventions and reasonings is always accom-
panied with a delightful confidence, at least upon seri-
ous and great occasions, that his sentiments, however
transient they may j^rove, are honest and conscientious
at the time. For, though Jeffrey often trifles with a
subject expressly, and often argues for exhibition, he
never leaves me in doubt, when he means to do so, and
when he is for the time in earnest. I am therefore very
impatient to see what he has to say about France ; for
as the new state of affairs in that unhappy countrj^, and
our deep participation in them, must be a constant me-

JEt. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 995

ditation in every reflecting and feeling mind, so I con-
clude from the opinions lie held about the war in May
last, that I am not likely to find him judging of these
matters at present in the light in Avliich I see them.

It was a very painful circumstance in my last visit to
Scotland, from the little politics I talked with any body,
to find myself so far asunder from my best friends in our
views of foreig-n affliirs. To me, it is losino; the chief
relish of life not to feel alike w^ith them upon things
wdiich make us all feel strongly. And I have laid noth-
ing so much to heart for many years as the difference
which I imagine exists among us, respecting the nature
and character of the present crisis of European politics.
All the opinions which I have ever cherished seem on
this occasion concentrated, and all the principles which
have been gaining strength and confirmation in my
mind every year of my life, seem put in peril at once.
It is a question, whether all the good fruits of the French
Revolution, dearly and cruelly as they have been
earned, are to be lost to France ; and whether it is not
to be settled in the instance of that country, that the
greatest and most civilised people may, by the confede-
racy of courts and the alliance of armies, be subjected
to the government of a family whom they despise and
detest. It is a question whether the very first principle
of slavery, that the people are the property of certain
royal families, is not to be established as a fundamental
maxim in the system of Europe ; and whether the vital
principle of our English liberty and our revolution is
not to be antiquated as a Jacobinical heresy by the
force of English arms. The degradation of our army
in beino; the main instrument of this warfare asrainst
freedom and civilisation, the stain upon the national
name in making so ungenerous a use of our triumph

296 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

over our rival in arms, our keeping ihe police of Paris to
protect the Bourbons, while they are murdering with
judicial forms those who tried the fortune of war with
us, and to whom we in words, and they by fact and deed,
gave warrant of an amnesty -, these are incidental sub-
jects of grief and shame, which embitter the pain with
which one contemplates the course of events, and which
will leave wounds upon our honour, even if the future
struggle should take a favourable turn ; but the struggle
to which I look, is, that of the French people against
the Bourbons and against the confederate sovereigns.
And the most anxious and the most depressing reflection
that perpetually recurs upon me, is the conviction, that
for the success of this great contest, the principles of
liberty must rely for their principal support upon the
enlightened men of England, while most of these are
not yet awakened to a sense of what is doing, and of
what the consequences will inevitably be.

You will think me very serious ; but I cannot write
otherwise to you on these matters, if I write at all ; for
there is no day that is not saddened by every thing I
read and hear.

Yours ever affectionately,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCXLVII. TO THOMAS THOMSON, ESQ.
My dear Thomson, v^'ohuvr, Abbey, 29th Nov. i8i5.

I have never had the grace to write you my
thanks for your magnificent present of the Acts and
Eegister, which I found in my library upon my return
from Scotland. They are very handsome books, and I
prize your gift very highly.

I wish you would write now and then, were it only to

^T. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 297

keep me in the knowledge of the sentiments and impres-
sions which are produced in you by these dreadful events
of our time. I never feel comfortable, when any of
these turns of public affairs take place, till I know the
opinions of about half a dozen friends in different parts
of the world. This treaty of peace, as it is called, and
the novel engagements which our government has im-
posed upon us, form a crisis in the policy of England
and Europe, which will bring to the test both the prin-
ciples of men and their nerves. I anticipate, at no great
distance of time, a much more violent difference in poli-
tical sentiments than we have experienced since the
peace of Amiens ; and as far as I have yet been able to
judge, though my means of information are very limited,
I expect that in the country (whatever there may be in
parliament) there will be but a small minority who will
see things in what I consider the true light, unless some
reverses of fortune or some disasters reaching ourselves,
correct the public feeling. I say correct, for it is the illu-
sion of military success that seems to have blinded many,
who used to be guided in their judgments of foreign
politics by some regard to justice and to the cause of
liberty.

I have made out the history of those supplementary
stanzas in CoUins's Ode on the Superstitions of the High-
lands, wdiich puzzled us. They are a mere fabrication.
Mackintosh, who told me the story, would not mention
the man's name ; but it w^as a very low northern littera-
teur, who, about five and twenty years ago, published at
Cadell's shop a new edition of that ode, as from another
manuscript, with all the blanks ^and vacancies supplied.
The additions were one and all a forgery of his own, of
which he boasted to Mackintosh. The man is dead.
This piece of literary history ought to be made known ;

298 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

for the forgery has not only crept into the edition of
Collins which I shewed you, and that is part of a gene-
ral collection, but also into the large body of the Eng-
lish poets published by Chalmers.

I met lately with two volumes of Travels in France
published at Edinburgh, which the bookseller told me
was the work of one of the young Alisons. I found
upon the perusal, that the two volumes were the pro-
duction of different hands. In the volume by Alison,
there is much very interesting matter, a great deal of
heart and liberal sentiment, some occasional power of
expression, and all through a settled regularity of copi-
ous and elegant composition, very Scotch in the cast and
all the thinking of it ; but very good, for all that, upon
the whole. You must let me know which of the Ali-
sons it is, the Doctor, or the Advocate ; ==' there is great
promise in this first performance ; and though there are
a hundred points, on which I should be inclined to think
the author rather less liberal than he ought to be about
France, it is the work of a man whose sentiments can-
not be long or much deficient in refinement or elevation.
If I am not mistaken, I could put my finger on some
passages of a diffuse and mystical elegance, more re-
markable for unction than strength, which I would
ascribe to the father.

I have got a copy of the life of Tennant f for you,
which I shall send with some books that are to be dis-
patched in a few days for Charlotte Square. Whishaw
has not quite rejected my proposal, that he should pub-
lish it with his name. But he is at present engaged
with another object, which has grown out of that, in

* I am informed that both contributed to the second volume, Dr. "W. P.
Alison and Archibald Alison, Esq,, the author of the " History of Europe
from 1789 to 1815." — Ed.

f Smithson Tennant, Esq., F. E. S.

JEt. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 299

consequence of receiving some papers of Brown, the
traveller, Avliich, upon his death, were transmitted home
from SmjTna, to poor Tennant's care.

I paid a visit lately, in company with Whishaw, to
Mackintosh, at Weedon in the vale of Aylesbury ; the
ugliest country perhaps in England. But he is living
comfortably, and I should think very happily ; free from
the hectic fever of London idleness, and working just
enough to keep him in regular spirits. He told me, he
expected before the meeting of parliament in February,
to have nearly finished the reign of King William ; but
it rather surprised me, when he added, that this would
not form more than between a fourth and a third of his
first volume.

My dear Thomson,

Affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCXLYII* TO LADY HOLLAND.
Dear Lady Holland, Temple, December 2(1, 1815.

I am very sorry to perceive that is in

danger of receiving such bad advice. He is but too apt
himself, to take the course which is so recommended.

Lord may be right or wrong in the conjecture

which he had evidently formed as to the quarter in
which the notion of a proceeding in parliament origina-
ted. But he knows nothing of the feelings of Westmin-
ster Hall upon the subject ; if he supposes that the con-
demnation of for holding these two appoint-
ments, is confined to those who dislike the man personally,
or who are excessive puritans in their politics. It would
be some answer to the objection which they make, to
urge that Lord EUenborough had a seat in the Cabinet,

300 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

if it could first be proved that that was not very wrong.

And if means only to urge that personally, and

not upon principle, what is that personal argument to
me or to a hundred more ? It is making a very bad use
of the compromise with principle, which the necessities
of a party may force upon them for the sake of greater
objects, to extend such instances into precedents and per-
sonal appeals, in order to colour every other compromise,
for which there may be no stronger necessity than in the
temptations of individual advantage or convenience.
But he says it is not the pecuniary advantage that

induces to keep this office. I am much mistaken

if it is not that alone ; but if it is not, my objection to
the thing becomes much stronger ; for if there are diffi-
culties, as he says, the nature of which cannot be easily
surmounted, there must grow out of the very intercourse
and connexion, which it is the most improper for a judge
to hold with the person of the sovereign. I do not
know whether for all this I should be ranked by Lord

in the " Band of Cossacks." You know whether

I have any motive of unkindness towards 's

family, that would influence me on this occasion, or am
more likely to feel pain and distress at the thoughts of
being forced, by what I think the father's misconduct,
to put in hazard, by the course which I shall certainly
take upon it, one of my best and dearest friendshijDS.

It is a bad simile, for to compare some of our

skirmishers in personal questions to Cossacks ; but in our
Whig army there used to be some camjD followers from
another country of the North, who had no objection
after a defeat to console themselves individually with a
little plunder, not much minding whether they took it
from friend or foe ; and the race of these does not seem
extinct.

^T. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 301

I have not availed myself of your permission to show

Lor(l 's letter to Whishaw ; because it would

make an impression, I think very unfavouraljle to Lord

— . We, who know his personal disinterestedness

and the activity and warmth of his friendship, are pre-
pared to make allowances for the views he takes of such
questions, when the interest of others is affected ; but
that is not the inclination of people in general about him.

I am very curious to know what answer Lord Grey
thinks can be made to Ney's appeal to the convention
of Paris. I have not yet heard one suggested. If you
have any farther communication from him upon the
subject, give me a hint of his reasoning.

I went to your box last night to see the Abercrombys.
She desired me to tell you, how much she Avas obliged
to you for your note. Yours affectionately,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCXLYIII. TO THOMAS THOMSON, ESQ.
My dear Thomson, Temple, 2d Dec. i8i5.

I have again to thank you for your kind bounty
to me, and I shall not be content to place your Jewel
Book * upon the shelf, till I have looked into it for some
of the curious matter. I wish, however, you would re-
solve to use your own materials. Not that I would not
have you do all you are doing now, in the way of pub-
lishino; these oris^inal documents. But then I would
have you, besides, form some piece of history or disser-
tation for general readers, in which the antiquities you
are daily extracting might be placed in such philosophi-

* A Collection of Inventories and other Records of the Royal Wardrobe-
and Jewel House, and of the Artillery and Munition in some of the Royal
Castles, 1488-1606.

VOL. II. 26

302 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

cal and useful points of view, as would give them a per-
manent value and interest. The early History of Scot-
land has never been imiitcn at all ; I mean Pinkerton's
period ; yet it is a very instructive j)ortioii of the gene-
ral history of laws and manners, and not altogether
deficient in the characters or dramatic events that best
exhibit manners, by showing them in action. The Scot-
tish annals are thrown upon a scenery so marked, and
so abound in peculiar details, that they would afford
many subjects for an artist who could work in the
strongest relief

Political matters are worse since I wrote my last letter.
The treaty, of anti-jacobin confederacy, has not only
realised all the apprehensions which filled me then, but
avows audaciously the design of suppressing by royal
combination all attempts in all countries to improve
their political institutions. Translate their phrases, and
you have their avowal of all this in plain terms. And
to show you how far these sovereigns are disposed to
carry their practical application of the principle, the
Emperor of Russia said at Paris to a man whom I know
(an Englishman,) that, from the sjmiptoms that appeared
in the Prussian army, he did not know but he should
very soon have to perform the same service for his
brother of Prussia, at Berlin, which he had already ren-
dered to Louis in France.

Will the general sentiment and feeling of this coun-
try be in favour of such a treaty ? I believe it will be
found so, unless we have to pay for enforcing it.

Yours affectionately.

Era. Horner.

I shall be glad to hear all that you have leisure to
tell me about the Jury Court.

JEt. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 3O3

Letter CCXLVIIL* TO THE DUCHESS OF SOMERSET.
_ ^ , ^ „ , 108 Great Russell Street,

Dear Duchess 01 Somerset, 2d Dec. 181.5.

I think it very long since I have heard of you,
and I am anxious to know if your recovery has been
progressive since I had the pleasure of seeing you at
Bulstrode.

From what I know of your opinions, I think you can-
not fail to have sympathised with me, upon all the me-
lancholy transactions at Paris, of which every newspaper
is full, to the disgrace of our national character, and to
the destruction of all the hopes of peace and order in
Europe, with which the return of the Bourbons to their
throne was supposed to be attended.

Surel}^, after a solemn agreement that nobody in
Paris should be molested for their political sentiments
or conduct, these executions are a direct breach of fiith ;
and though the engagement was nominally signed by
the allied chiefs, Louis adopted it by returning to Paris,
which he entered upon the faith of that stipulation, and
it could only be against Louis that his subjects, who had
taken part against him, could feel it necessary to pro-
tect themselves by the article of amnesty inserted in the
convention. Have you read Count de Labourdonnaj^e's
proposal for a general execution? There has been
nothing so murderous, and so cold-blooded, since the
Reign of Terror, and one understands now what is
meant by a White Jacobin. But the consummation of
all is this Treaty of Alliance among the four powers, to
suppress by arms any appearance in future of what they
call revolutionary principles, that is of whatever they
may choose to call so, that is of any attempt in any
country to check the abuses of royal authority, or to

304 CORRESPONDEXCE. [1815.

mend political institutions. If this is submitted to, and
can be put in force, there will soon be an end of the
very shadow of liberty, and of all that can be called
civilization in Europe. The Prussian army and people
are said to be tainted wdth some washes for a constitu-
tion ) a case of rank Jacobinism. Talking of this, the
Emperor Alexander said to an English gentleman at
Paris, that he might perhaps be called upon very soon to
perform the same service at Berlin for his brother of
Prussia, which he had already rendered his brother Louis
in France : a pretty plain declaration of the extent to
which he is prepared to carry into activity the principle
of this dreadful treaty. Will the English Parliament
tamely endure this, after the solemn declaration made
last summer, that it was no object of the war to impose
any particular government on France, or to interfere in
its internal concerns ?

I was a few days lately at Woburn, and had the plea-
sure of meeting there that very charming person Lady
Tavistock, looking beautiful and amiable as ever. I beg
to be remembered to her god-daughter in particular, and
all my other young friends at Bradley. And with kind
regards to the Duke, believe me ever your Grace's
Sincere and faithful Servant,

Era. Horner.

Letter CCXLIX. TO DUGALD BAXNATYNE, ESQ., GLASGOW.
My dear Sir, Temple, 4th Dec. 1815.

I had rather indulged myself with the expecta-
tion of receiving a letter from you, on the subject of
that very remarkable traffic in books round Glasgow by
itinerant retailers with which you interested me so
much. You thought it likely that you might have an

^T. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 3Qrj

opportunity of verifying the curious account which had
been given you, and of collecting further details. If
you have been successful. I shall feel quite obliged to
you for some communication of the particulars. There
is nothing in the interior economy of our own country
so important to know, as the progress of instruction
among the industrious classes. It is especially so in the
new turn which political affairs have taken, for the pre-
sent, on the continent of Europe. For I know of no
protection for us against the designs which the confede-
rated kings have now plainly avowed, of resisting, by a
standing combination among themselves, every move-
ment that tends to the reformation of abuses or the ex-
tension of liberty, except that which may be found in
the effects of knowledge steadily and solidly diffused
through the great body of the people.

I feel considerable curiosity to know what impression
has been produced, upon the thinking and active popu-
lation of your great town, by the recent proceedings at
Paris ; especially by the breach of the amnesty, by the
employment of our troops in the most odious services
for the Bourbons, and by this treaty of alliance against
revolutionary principles. There were times when such
transactions would have raised a cry of indignation in
England : as yet I have not perceived any expression of
correct feeling. I should expect to find in Glasgow as
early an indication as any where of just and manly sen-
timents, on so great and so new an occasion.

I beg you will offer my best compliments to Mrs.
Bannatyne,

And believe me, my dear Sir,

Very sincerely yours,

Era. Horner.

26*

306 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

Letter CCL. FROM LORD GRENVILLE.
My clear Sir Camelford House, Gth Dec. 1815.

Having been called to town for a few days, I
found on my table a copy of Professor Stewart's Dis-
sertation. I read it with the eagerness which the sub-
ject and his name would naturally create, and I have
received from it a degree of delight and instruction,
such as few books indeed have ever afforded to me.

It was not till last night that your letter followed me
up from the country, and informed me to whom I was
indebted for so valuable a present ; and this must be my
apology for not having sooner thanked you for it. With
all my admiration of it, I do not acquiesce in all he says
here and elsewhere of Oxford. It may be the effect of
prejudice, but I confidently believe that he thinks of our
institutions and studies there, less favourably than we
deserve, and than he would himself think of us if he
were better acquainted with the facts. He has also
brought against us a charge, that of expelling Locke,
which certainly is not historically true, and I believe I
shall be tempted to trouble him, through you (if you
will allow it) with a very short note to place that tran-
saction in what I conceive to be its true light. Not that
any of us is much concerned to vindicate what our
predecessors did a century and a half ago, but because
historical truth is valuable, even as to the minutest facts,
and still more so when it concerns the conduct of public
bodies.*

* Lord Grcnville published in 1829 (]MuiTay,) a tract entitled " Oxford
and Locke," in -which he A'indicatcs the University from what he terms
" groundless aspersions." It contains a letter to Mr. Horner, dated 14th
December, 1815, which was communicated to Mr. Stewart, and Mr. Stewart's
reply. — Ed.

^T. 38.] CORRESrONDENCE. 307

When I got your letter, I was on the point of writing
to you, to express how happy you would make us if you
could contrive to pass any part, the longer the better,
of your Christmas holidays at Dropmore.

Ever, my dear Sir, most truly yours,

Grenville.

Letter CCLL FROM LORD GRENVILLE.
Mv dear Sir Dropmore, 10th Dec. 1815.

The time you mention will be perfectly conve-
nient for our having the pleasure of seeing you here.
Since I have returned here, I have entered upon a second
and more deliberate reading of Stewart's Dissertation.
I am afraid you will not think very highly of my judg-
ment in selecting for observation, amidst such a mass of
the most valuable matter, a slight and incidental refer-
ence to an almost forgotten anecdote. But something
must be allowed for local attachment, and I have no
doubt of satisfying you when I see you, that the act in
question was in no respect (what Stewart represents it)
the act of the University, but, solely and exclusively,
the act of that profligate and ambitious court whom
Locke had offended by his attachment to Lord Shaftes-
bury. It is in that light that Fox represents it, drawing
from it its proper historical inference, that of the inse-
curity even of the most obscure stations, under the
tyranny of such a government.

Ever most truly yours,

Grenville.

108 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

Letter CCLTI. TO HIS SISTER, MISS ANNE HORNER.

My clear Nancy, London, istii Dec. 1815.

For the last week I have been reading, over and
over again, Mr. Stewart's new Dissertation, which re-
freshes me like a delicious repast, in having one's atten-
tion called to it from dull law and gloomy politics. It
is, perhaps, the most pleasing of all his compositions ;
and, from what I have heard, is likely to become the
most popular. It has the greatest of all charms, in com-
mon with all his writings, an uniform tone of high and
pure sentiment; and as they all tend to inspire a confi-
dence that, in spite of bad governments and of the
mistakes committed by those who oppose them, knowl-
edge and justice at last make their way. The perusal
of a work which abounds in so many elegant illustra-
tions of this hope, is peculiarly calculated to cheer and
relieve one's mind, at a time when the best governments
have been seduced into a league against liberty, and
many of her most watchful friends have been lulled into
a dream of security. It required something to comfort
me, when I found the Edinburgh Review dreaming like
the rest.

There are one or two admirable pages of an article
about Carnot, which ought to have roused Jeffrey ; but
old Simond has given him an opiate which lulls him fast.
Constable told me yesterday, he has sold the whole edi-
tion, amounting to 7000, of his first vol. of the Supple-
ment to the Encyclopasdia, and that he means to print
3500 more of the next number. My kind love to every
body.

Very affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

^T. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. oqq

Letter CCLIII. TO THE DUKE OF SOMERSET.
My dear Lord Duke, Temple, icth Dec. 1815.

I hope you have by this time read Dugald Stew-
art's preUminary Discourse to the new Supplement, pub-
Hshed at Edinburgh, to the Encyclopa3dia Britannica ;
because it must have afforded you much pleasure, from
the magnificent survey which he takes of the history of
human knowledge in several of its most important
branches, and from the splendid eloquence and choice
details with which he has rendered attractive and inte-
resting even the progress of metaphysical doctrines. It
seems to me written in a freer spirit of criticism and
more copiously ornamented than any of his former
compositions ; yet the ornaments are not excessive, but
give the work a character of majesty and richness quite
appropriate to the height of his subject. The work has
still another charm for me, borrowed from the times in
which it has made its appearance. It is the tendency
of all Stewart's writings to impart to his reader a san-
guine belief in the real progress which practical knowl-
edge and human improvement are steadily, even when
most imperceptibly, making, through all the political
troubles and all the philosophical follies which at par-
ticular periods seem to throw every thing back into its
original disorder and ignorance. In none of his former
treatises, had he so direct an opportunity of proving and
illustrating this pleasing opinion. And I have been
seduced, perhaps, by his eloquence, but by wdiat I feel
at present like unanswerable arguments, to apply even
to the dismal prospects of our own days that confidence
in the ultimate prevalence of truth and liberty, which
he extracts from the struggles of the Protestant Refor-

310 CORRESPOXDENCE. [1815.

mation, and from the whole subsequent history both of
opinions and of legislation in Europe. If this should
prove an idle hope, at least it ministers some present
relief; and if all these promises about the future are
visionary, I for one would not forego the luxury of
dreaming now and then, and escaping for a while from
the realities of the age in which we live.

I had the pleasure of receiving the Duchess's obliging
and agreeable letter from Bowood ; and will write to
her Grace very soon.

Believe me ever,

Your Grace's faithful Servant,

Fea. Horner.

Letter CCLUL* TO LORD GRENVILLE.
Mv dear Lord Woburn Abbey, 31st Dec. 1815.

I inclose the answer, which I have received from
Mr. Stewart, to the communication which you sent him
through me, respecting Locke's affair at Oxford in 1684.
AVith his usual candour and love of accuracy, he yields
to your Lordship's explanation, and j)roofs, of the real
nature of that transaction ; which has been so errone-
ously represented by every writer, I believe, who has
hitherto mentioned it. The inaccurate language which
Dr. Fell and Lord Sunderland themselves used, to de-
scribe what they had done, became by tradition the
only memorial of what had passed. At a period nearly
equally distant from that time and from the present, we
find Pope, when he takes occasion to glance at the
story, calling it the expulsion of Locke, in a passage of
the fourth book of the Dunciad.

Though I perfectly concur Avith your Lordship in
thinking, that the Chapter of Christ Church had no

^T. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 3X1

means of resisting the arbitrary violence of government,
I am rather inclined to be of opinion, that, legally they
had a right to refuse obedience to the warrant. When
the King is Visitor, he must visit by his Lord Chancellor.
I take this to have been clear known law at the time
we are speaking of Upon ancient authorities, to be
found in the Year-Books, it is so laid down by Fitzher-
bert, in treating of the writ of Prohibition ; by Lord
Coke ; repeated by Rolle ; and after an interval, dur-
ing which no new decision on that particular point had
occurred, by Comyn. I should apprehend, therefore,
that, in 1684, the opinion of lawyers would have been,
that a sign manual, countersigned by the Secretary of
State, was not legally a visitatorial act

This consideration, however, if well founded, still does
not affect the conclusion, that, in point of fact, the
chapter submitted to an act of power, which in this
point of view only appears the more arbitrary and vio-
lent. I cannot help thinking, that the Dean of Christ
Church must be regarded as a willing accomplice in
the act ; for he suggests the course that was adopted,
and he ousrht to have known so much of the laws of the
country, as concerned the rights and protection of his
college. But for the point in question, it is not material
to ascertain how far Doctor Fell was more or less ser-
vile to the Court.

I think, too, that yoiiv Lordship has show^n unanswer-
ably, that it is quite incorrect and unfair to couple the
transaction of 1684 with any thing in the state of philo-
sophical opinions at that time in the University. Li all
probability, few individuals in Oxford, and least of all
the senior academies, could be apprized of those tenets
and speculations, which were not published to the world
till two years after the Revolution. For if my recollec-

312 CORRESPONDENCE. [1815.

tion is right, the first edition of the Essay was in 1690,
after Locke's return from Holland.

At a subsequent period, indeed, and when the gov-
ernment of the Church as well as State was in hands in-
capable of illegal violence, and not adverse to free in-
quiry, there ivere proceedings at Oxford, directed ex-
pressly against the Essay on Human Understanding.
And these appear to have originated within the body of
the University, and to have grown out of the opinions
that reigned there on metaphysical and theological sub-
jects. I allude to a meeting of the Heads of Houses,
which is said to have been held in 1703, in order to dis-
courage and censure the reading of the Essay ; at
which, after much debate, it was resolved, without com-
ing to a public censure or decree, that each head should
prevent it from being read in his college. All I know
of this is from Locke's correspondence with Anthony
Collins in the same year, 1703, and the notice given by
Des Maizeaux, the editor of those letters. Locke as-
cribes this attempt to " damn his book " to an opinion,
entertained by those learned persons, of its tendency to
discourage the School Logic, which he calls " the staple
commodity of the place." He appears to have obtained
but imperfect information of what had been actually pro-
posed, or agreed upon, at the meeting ; and perhaps no
authentic account of it, more circumstantial, is any
where preserved. It is an incident of no inconsiderable
importance, in the history of English philosophy ; and,
if truly stated in the accounts I have mentioned, would
seem justly to admit of that reflection, which has
hitherto been inaccurately attached to the proceeding
of 1684. So Locke himself understood it. It was this,
too, which gave Pope the hint of the satirical passage to
which I have already referred, in which he describes

JEx. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 313

Aristotle's friends " still expelling Locke," and imputes
their prejudice against him to the intolerance of men
addicted to that logic. Warburton, too, who was pro-
bably better acquainted than Pope with the literary
traditions of our Universities, not only concurs wdth the
poet in his representation of the fact, but uses these very
remarkable expressions : " Such was the fite of this new
IdUlosophy at Oxford."

I propose to have the pleasure of coming to Drop-
more on Wednesday next. Believe me,
My dear Lord,

Most truly and faithfully yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCLIV. TO HIS MOTHER.
My dearest Mother, Wobum Abbey, New Year's Day, 181G.

I wish you many, many happy returns of this
day, and the same to my father and all in Charlotte
Square and at White House. I got your Christmas
letter before I left town, and took it very kind of
you to remember me. I came here on Saturday, and
shall go to Dropmore on Wednesday, from that to
sessions.

We have had no winter yet, no snow; now and
then a little frost only. This is as fine a day as I
ever remember, more like October than the present
season ; I am just returned from a ride with Mr. Fa-
zakerley* through part of this magnificent park, and
the adjoining farms. He is a very agreeable man, and
has travelled more than any body of his age, having
been, like the Spectator, to Grand Cairo, to take the
measure of a pyramid; besides living a great deal in

* I. N. Fazakerley, Esq., M. P.

VOL. n. 27

314 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

Spain and Italy, he was of the party some years ago
that visited the Grecian Islands and spent a winter at
Athens. With all this, he has excellent and moderate
opinions in politics, such as become the descendant of a
Whig lawyer. We have had as yet but a small party ;
Lord aiid Lady Tavistock, William Adam, and an old
clergyman of the name of Cartwright, (brother of the
visionary Major,) who, in his younger days, wrote two
fine stanzas in a ballad that begins with, "A hermit on
the banks of Trent." The party is to be reinforced to-
day with some grandees.

I was much affected with your account of poor aunt
Cowan's decease. It was leaving the world as easily as
possible, and in a way that was a reward for a life so
long and so blameless. I have never seen, in any other
instance, so much innocence and contentment. God
bless you.

Ever affectionately yours,

Fra. Hornek.

Letter CCLV. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.
My dear Murray Great Russell Street, 18th Jan. 1816.

I am not surprised you should tremble, in these
times, for any man who has gone largely into specula-
tions for the improvement of land ; and, as far as my
knowledge of him enables me to form a judgment, I
should agree with you in thinking your friend not the
most likely to be wary and cool in such speculations.
But what has happened lately must bring the most
sanguine to their senses. It requires but a superfi-
cial observation of what is passing to be convinced,
that, independent of the check which all eager enter-
prise in the employment of capital must occasionally

JEt. 38.] CORRESPONDENClk 315

meet with from its own excess, there was for some time
an artificial state of prices and credit in this country,
which (even if it could be revived once more for a little
while) cannot be much lo'^iger maintained ; and that our
unexampled wars have made an encroachment upon the
substantial wealth of the whole body of the people, which
could not fail at last to become visible to the dullest eye,
and be felt everywhere. The distress, as a national one,
will soon, I believe, pass off, except in what regards the
finances of the government; because the real wealth
that is accumulated and remains is immense, and is
shifted and applied with a promptitude and confidence
never known among any other people. But the pre-
sent crisis must be felt severely by individuals, and, as
in the progress of our artificial opulence, there was much
derangement of property, and many a sudden as well as
unjust transfer, something of the same sort is to be ex-
pected while things are falling back towards a more na-
tural state. I believe it to be very fortunate for us,
that they have been forced back so soon, and in a man-
ner which, to me at least, was wholly unlooked for.
For, if I am not wrong in my way of seeing it, it is the
very prosperity and improvement of the country in its
first of all branches, the agricultural, which has wrought
the sharp but sure remedy for all the errors of our
policy. What I mean is this. The great exertions
made in husbandry have at length given us so large an
annual produce, that for three successive years (no one
of which has been very remarkably fine) we have had
some surplus of our own growth, That surplus, in the
comparative state of our prices and those abroad, could
not be sold to any foreign consumer. The smallest sur-
plus, it is well known, if thrown back upon the market
and kept there, may depress it almost indefinitely. The

316 CORKESPONDENCE. [1816.

great fall of prices we have experienced brought a very
sudden embarrassment upon the farmers and proprietors.
This not only alarmed all the reasonable bankers in the
provinces, but actually withdrew great part of the foun-
dation upon which both the reasonable and the foolish
bankers had so long maintained their large issues of
country paper. By far the greatest banker in the west
of England told me the other day, that their circulation
was not now much more than a fourth of what it had
been. The reduction in the quantity of money has been
followed by a fl\ll in the nominal price of the jDrecious
metals, an improvement of all the exchanges, a fall in
the wages of labour, and one after another of various
commodities, some being reached much sooner than
others. Here then we arrive at a point, at which mat-
ters begin to take a favourable turn ; the low money
price which the grower gets for his corn, being already
a better price in reality than the same money price
would have been, while money was more abundant.
Unfortunately things cannot go quite round, at least not
smoothly. The public debt that was contracted while
the money was abundant and low priced, and the taxes
that must continue to be raised to pay the interest
of that debt, w^ill still make our expenses of cultiva-
tion so high, that we cannot grow corn for the price of
the foreign market ; so that it would seem that, as long
as the expenses of cultivation are kept up to that rate,
we must, in order to secure our farmers a fair price, grow
less than we actually can consume ourselves. Tell me,
how many blunders there are in this deduction, — of
course, I have stated it but roughly. I need not add,
that the only practical measure to which I can look, as
holding out any promise of easing the present suffering,
would be such a reduction of establishments, as would

2Et. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 317

render it practicable for the government, without violat-
ino- any of its engagements to the pubUc creditor, to re-
move a large proportion of the taxes that press most di-
rectly and heavily upon the capital employed in cultiva-
tion.

Ever affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCLVI. TO HIS SISTER, mSS ANNE HORNER.

My dear Nancy, London, 29th Jan. isie.

I have several of your kind letters to acknow-
ledge, which always give me a very real pleasure. I
believe I have never told you how much pleased I was
to find you had read Mr. Stewart's Dissertation, and with
so true a taste of what forms its chief excellence. I
entirely agree with you that the high and uniform tone
of the purest and noblest morality, which breathes
through the whole composition, is its principal charm, as
it is that which distinguishes Mr. Stewart's writings,
even more than his unrivalled beauty of style, from all
the other works of the present day. It is like going
into another climate, to pass to the serene and great
prospects which he gives to the eye, and over which he
spreads so many beauties of detail and so much senti-
ment, from the factious fever or flippant ingenuity which
are so much the mode among his contemporaries.

After having made this experiment, I think you need
not be deterred by the titles of his other books, from
dipping at least into some parts of them. I will propose
to you particular portions ; if you will go through them
in the order in which I set them down, I think you will
derive both gratification and improvement from them.

27*

318 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

In the first vol. of the Philosophy of the Mind : —

1. The chapter on Memory.

2. That on Imagination.

3. Part Second of tlie chapter on Associations,

where he treats of its influence on the intel-
lectual and active powers.
In the volume of Philosophical Essays : —

4. The two Essays on Taste, and the culture of

habits connected with it.

5. Essay on the Beautiful.

In the second vol. of the Philosophy —

6. The last hundred pages.

You will not find any of this, at least very little of it,
" above your comprehension ; " in all that he writes
about the improvement and cultivation of taste, you
will find perpetual opportunities to apply his remarks
to a variety of subjects and pursuits, which have more
or less occupied you for some years past. You must
know I told Mrs. Stewart you had ventured into the
Dissertation, and I mentioned to her the particular
delight you found in the moral impressions you received
from it. She told me, Mr. Stewart was flattered by your
remark ; he said, that these are the invaluable praises,
from a simple heart and unspoiled taste ; and that an
author is sure he is right, when such readers are satisfied.
Good night, my dear Nancy ; as it is not likely I shall
have any thing to add on Monday, I will at once finish
my epistle.

Affectionately yours.

Era. Horner.

jEt. 38.] CORRESrONDENCE.

Letter CCLVII. TO THE DUCHESS OF SOMERSET.

Dear Duchess of Somerset, London, 29th Jan. i8ic.

From all I can hear, there is no chance of a divi-
sion in the House of Lords the first day. The first
important debate there will probably be upon the Trea-
ties, after they have been laid by the Crown before Par-
liament ; and it can hardly take much less than a fort-
nierht to read and consider them. Lord Grenville will
bring forward, I expect, a specific question upon the
violation of the constitution, of which he thinks the
Ministers have been guilty, in not asking the sanction of
Parliament to their treaty of peace, before they proceeded
in execution of it, particularly with so new a stipulation
contained in it, as the maintenance of an English army
in France during peace. But he will of course give
ample notice of this motion, which is, no doubt, one of
high importance.

I fear we are not likely to go on long very harmo-
niously in opposition ; there are such wide and irrecon-
cileable differences of opinion, between those who; on
the one hand, will hear of nothing but a return to all
that was undone by the French revolution, and who, in
the present moment of success, declare views of that
sort which they never avowed to the same extent before,
and those who, on the other hand, think that the French
people have some right to make and mend their govern-
ment for themselves, and who are not prepared to adopt,
under a new and not a much better name, the old
exploded doctrines of divine right, kingcraft, and passive
obedience. If this was only a speculative interest felt
by us in the affairs of France as spectators, we might
differ in sentiment, and go on together with respect to

320 HOUSE OF COMMONS. [1816.

the concerns of our own country, with which those of
France ought not to be so much mixed ; but this treaty
for putting down by force of arms whatever the kings
combined may think, or choose to call, revolutionary
movements, is such a conspiracy against the rights and
liberties of mankind, as it is impossible to refrain from
condemning and resisting. You may expect very soon
to see a breach in the opposition ; I think it cannot be
averted much longer. It is this circumstance which
makes Lord Grey's absence at this moment so peculiarly
unfortunate for those who, as I do, agree with him in
the way of seeing all these things, and look up to him
as their head. I am particularly obliged to your Grace
for allowing me to read the inclosed letter, which I
return with my best thanks. Believe me ever your
obliged and sincere

Era. Horner.

P. S. — I am very sorry to add, that, since the date of
Lady Grey's letter, he has had another very severe
attack.

Parliament met on the 1st of February, and an
amendment to the address to the Prince Regent, on the
first day of the session, was moved by Mr. Brand, and
seconded by Lord John Russell, — that it was the duty
of Ministers to have convened Parliament with the least
possible delay, for the purpose of communicating those
important treaties with the allies, and with France,
which, after having been acted upon for several months,
were then about to be laid before the House; and
pledging the House to a speedy revisal of the civil and

JEt. 38.] AMENDMENT ON THE ADDRESS. 321

military establishments, according to the principles of
the most rigid economy, and a due regard to the public
interests. This amendment was supported by Mr.
Brougham, Lord Milton, and Sir Samuel Romilly ; and
after the latter sat down, Lord Castlereagh spoke in sup-
port of the Address. Mr. Horner then rose and said, —
" The noble lord who had just sat down had stated,
that the House in acceding to the proposed Address
would pledge themselves to approve of the peace, as
being more glorious than any which had been obtained
at the close of former wars. Against this proposition he
must protest. He understood the Address to congratu-
late the Prince Regent on the peace, and on the unri-
valled successes which had blessed his Majesty's arms in
the progress of the war just concluded ; and, without
any reference to party, he thought no man, who felt as
an Englishman, could do other than exult in those tri-
umphs, which had placed the military character of this
country on a pinnacle which it had never before reached.
He could not, however, give the peace the unqualified
approbation which the noble lord seemed to expect, till
the treaties were before the House. When these were
examined into, he should be glad to find that the peace
was really one which, while it gave other advantages,
sustained, at the same time, the British character for
good faith. He had no doubt the noble lord thought it
merited this praise ; but from some rumours which had
got abroad in Europe, he should feel it to be his duty
to look closely into it, to satisfy himself that in this the
noble lord was right. With respect to the commerce
and internal state of the country, he should reserve him-
self till the necessary papers were before the House,
and these were subjects which he should be careful not
to mix with the questions of peace and negotiation. He

322 AMENDMENT ON THE ADDRESS. [1816.

was aware the conclusion of a war in every community,
more especially in one so complicated as that of Eng-
land, must create some temporary distress j but he was
afraid, that which was now complained of would be
found to bear another character, and that the remedy
would not be easily supplied. He trusted the Minister
was not disposed to propose, or the House to adopt, any
new departures from the principles of our ancient laws
and policy. He was led to make this remark, from a
suggestion thrown out by his honourable and learned
friend, with regard to an alteration of some of the exist-
ing laws. The present amount of the taxes he believed
to be the source of the evil complained of, and this
could never be remedied, but by going to the root of
the present system of taxation. He agreed with the
noble lord, that whatever pressure might be complained
of, it was desirable to leave the Sinking Fund unbroken
and unimpaired. But if this was suffered to remain
untouched, how were the public burthens to be dimi-
nished ? By economy alone. It was not to be effected
by economically taking off two or three hundreds from
one item, or two or three hundreds from another, but
by the introduction of the most rigid economy into all
departments, and by reducing, where it was practical,
the military, civil, and financial departments. He hoped,
in the course of the present session, that Ministers
would not come to Parliament to ask for an increase of
emolument for any of the public officers. He trusted
they should not again hear of an addition to the salary
of this Lord Advocate of Scotland, or that Commissioner
of Excise, nor an extended provision for this or that
branch of the royal family. He hoped the House would
be careful to make Ministers attentive to economy ; that,
by timely retrenchment, the difficulties complained of

Mt. 38.] BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR. 323

might be met, and that the nation would never be forced
to the last and most desperate expedient, that of break-
ing its faith with the public creditor. He should con-
clude with declaring, that, for the present, he would give
no opinion on the character of the peace."

BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR.

On the 5th of February, Lord Castle reagh moved,
— that an address be presented to the Prince Regent, to
represent that the House was desirous of commemorat-
ing the splendid achievements of the British navy dur-
ing the late wars, by erecting a national monument to
its most signal and decisive victory, in the battle of Tra-
falgar. Mr. William Dundas differed in opinion from
the noble lord, and proposed, that a monument, or
monuments, should be erected to commemorate all their
naval victories during the late wars: upon this, Mr.
Horner rose and said, —

" He gave full credit to the feelings of the right hon-
ourable gentleman (Mr. Dundas) in the wdsh he had ex-
pressed, to see a monument by which the services of the
whole navy might be commemorated, and in his fear
that any one of our great naval victories might pass
without its appropriate reward. Certainly, it might be
desirable to recall every deed of glory that had distin-
guished our naval annals ; particular individuals might
feel more interested in one action than in another, from
their connexions and relations in life, and might be con-
vinced that its omission was injurious to the memory of
those engaged in it ; still he thought that the proposi-
tion of the noble lord was more eligible, than that which
was stated by the right honourable gentleman who
spoke after him. A selection, he thought, was neces-

324 NAVAL VICTORIES. [1816.

sary to be made ; and if tliere was to be a selection, on
"vvliat victory could we fix so properly as upon that of
Traflilgar ? It was undoubtedly the greatest in our
naval history, in whatever point of view it was con-
sidered. It was not only transcendently great from the
skill and heroism displayed, but important from its poli-
tical consequences ; it carried the naval renown of this
country to a height it never before had reached, and
left us not only without a rival, but without an enemy
to contend with on the sea. If the plan of the right
honourable gentleman was to be adopted, and our late
naval victories were to be commemorated in their order,
where could we stop, or to what class of actions would
we confine ourselve •> ? There would be great difiiculty
in determining what victories the national monument
should record, without incurring the imputation of in-
vidious omission, where the exclusion commenced. If
the skill and intrepidity displayed in an action consti-
tuted alone a sufficient claim to participate in the pre-
sent measure of national commemoration, then there
were no limits to our list of celebrated battles, or great
naval commanders. All the navy had distinguished it-
self in every encounter with the enemy ; and there was
often as much intrepidity, as much experienced skill and
determined bravery, displayed in engagements with
single frigates, in capturing a gun-boat, or in cutting out
a vessel from a hostile port under the fire of an enemy's
batteries, as in gaining any of the victories which illus-
trate our naval history. The right honourable gentle-
man seemed to fall into a mistake, with regard to the
object of the noble lord's proposition. He seemed to
imagine that, because a particular victory was selected,
the monument was therefore to be exclusive ; and that
because the battle of Trafak-ar was to be the action

^T. 38.] PEACE ESTABLISHMENT. 325

on which the admiration of the country was to rest,
therefore none were to share in the glory of it but
the officers who were actually present. This was a
narrow view of this great exploit, it was a view that
the country should not take of it. The House should
consider it as an instance of splendid success repre-
senting the whole of our naval glory. It was to be
considered as the property of the whole navy, — as the
fruit of the superior skill, gallantry, and heroism of all
our naval defenders, — as the consummation of our
naval glory. He trusted, under all these circumstances,
that the right honourable gentleman would not j^ersist
in his ojDposition to the noble lord, or disturb the una-
nimity which ought to prevail on such an occasion."

PEACE ESTABLISHMENT.

On the bringing up of a Report of a Committee of
Supply on the 13th of February, and the Chancellor of
the Exchequer having moved that the resolutions should
be read, Mr. Wynn expressed his entire dissent from
the financial plan Avhich had been developed, the pre-
ceding night, by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as
well as from the whole scale of establishments there
laid down ; for it was a war establishment under the
name of peace. He was followed by Mr. Barclay,
who said, that as he was one of the first to concur in the
enactment of the property tax, at a moment of national
exigency, so he was now among the foremost of those
who called for its repeal, when the necessity for its en-
actment no longer existed. After he had spoken at
some length, Mr. Horner rose, and said, —

" He would take that opportunity of asserting, that
the people could not be relieved from their present

VOL. IL 28

326 PEACE ESTABLISHMENT. [1816.

appalling difficulties in any other than one way;
namely, by a reduction of the proposed peace estab-
lishment. It was in vain to listen to the suggestions
of those who recommended a little loan; suggestions
which, by the way, might be merely intended to sound
the House, upon the practicability of such a mode of
proceeding. All this was a plain and palpable delusion ;
the difficulties of the country were most urgent and
pressing, they must be met ; and if Ministers could
show, that there really existed a necessity for the main-
tenance of the proposed system, he, for one, would not
hesitate to vote for the property tax. But he was
firmly satisfied they were totally incapable of estabhsh-
ing that necessity. He had indeed consented to the
enactment of that tax, during the war, although per-
suaded of its odious, oppressive, burthensome, inquisi-
torial character; because he felt the force of that
policy which compelled its existence. Those times had
now passed away, and the real question for the Com-
mons of England, in the exercise of their sacred trust,
was at once to say aye or no to the momentous propo-
sition now submitted to their consideration. Was it neces-
sary to support 50,000 troops for the British Isles ? Was
it necessary to erect a peace establishment of 150,000
men ? In his opinion, he would reply no ; and he would
affirm and maintain that negative, through every part
of the details which it was said were to be forthcom-
ing. The situation of the country was not what it
had been but a few years ago. Was the necessity
of defence, he should ask, greater or smaller than at
the period to which he would allude ? France, at the
close of the American war, had a navy almost at our
shores, and superior, perhaps, to the fleets destined for
our protection. Spain and Holland had also a maritime

2Et. 38.] PEACE ESTABLISHMENT. 327

strength of no inconsiderable magnitude. All these
external considerations had happily disappeared ; the
safety of our colonial settlements was also placed on a
steady footing; and yet the country was required to
keep up a military force of an enormous and most un-
exampled extent. If such a peace establishment as
this were listened to by the people of England, he
would predict, from a measure so alien to their system,
the downfall of their liberty and constitution in a very
few years. It was nothing less than a project to alter
the uniform policy of Great Britain, and to amalgamate
her character with that of the military states in Europe,
by a total subversion of the principles of her constitu-
tion. From her insular situation, she was by nature a
naval and maritime state ; and to the preservation and
cultivation of the advantages necessarily belonging to
that state, she was paramountly bound to adhere. She
might, indeed, be dazzled with the newly acquired
glories of her army ; she might take her rank with the
despots of the Continent ; but in vain could she expect
to prolong the native pride of her free character. The
two systems were incompatible. Either the government
or the military establishment must give way ; and when
the question was a struggle for ascendency, between
liberty and the constitution on the one hand, and power
and despotism upheld by a military establishment on
the other, the warning experience of history proclaimed,
that the stru<2;2;le was short, and the termination most
ruinous. Independently of these, to him conclusive rea-
sons against the adoption of the present measure, the
financial state of the country presented an unanswer-
able argument on the same side. He would, therefore,
protest against it altogether, and insist that it was a
mere delusion to talk of expedients, and to hope for a

328 IRISH GRAND JURY LAWS. [1816.

diminution of burthens, if the proposed establishment
was to be maintained. If the people were to hope for
relief, they had but one chance of having their expecta-
tions realised, and that was, by a reduction of the peace
establishment."

IRISH GRAND JURY LAWS.

On the 14th of February, Mr. Horner brought under
the consideration of the House a measure of great im-
portance, connected with the administration of justice
in Ireland. He stated, that an extraordinary practice
prevailed, in the proceedings of the grand juries, of find-
ing bills of indictment upon the mere depositions ob-
tained from witnesses by the magistrates, without any
resort to parole evidence, and that this practice was estab-
lished over the greater part of Ireland. That it was not
of recent growth, but almost as ancient as it was uni-
versal ; for it had prevailed so long, that the records of
the courts- scarcely reached back to a time when it did
not exist. That it was almost unnecessary to say how
different this was from the practice that prevailed in
England, where the witnesses of the prosecutor were
sworn and examined before the grand jury. That the
common law of England and Ireland were the same ; and
that in determining what was proper to be done, we
had only to inquire what was the law of England ; and
though an opposite practice had been long established
in the sister kingdom, the length of usage was no suffi-
cient bar against a return to the punctual administra-
tion of it. That, by this practice, Ireland was deprived
of a most important privilege ; and there was nothing
that could be more essential to the interests and rights
of those individuals who were exposed to trial, whether

^T. 38.] IRISH GRAND JURY LAWS. 399

justly or unjustly, than restoring this privilege. That,
for this purpose, there would be no necessity for an en-
acting statute, but merely for a declaratory one ; that
any other, besides being useless, would have the appear-
ance of altering the common law of the land. He con-
cluded by moving, " for leave to bring in a Bill to
declare the law for the right proceeding of grand juries
in Ireland upon bills of indictment."

The Bill was strongly opposed by the Judges, and
by many eminent lawyers in Ireland, and was in con-
sequence retarded in its progress ; but it passed into a
law before the close of the session. It was the last mea-
sure which Mr, Horner originated in Parliament, and
was one to which he attached great importance. I am,
for this reason, induced to give a detailed statement of
the origin and progress of the measure ; and, by a slight
deviation from chronological order, I can give this
account in Mr. Horner's own words, in the following
letter to Mr. Murray, instead of having recourse to the
imperfect records of the proceedings, in the successive
stages of the Bill, contained in Hansard's Debates.

Mv dear MurraV Woburn Abbey, !)tli July, 181G.

You desire to have some account of my Irish
Grand Jury Bill. The history of it is this. In reading
a pamphlet pubUshed by Mr. Piice% an Irish country
gentleman, upon the subject of their money present-
ments, I was much surprised to find a statement by him,
that the grand juries of that country, in their proceed-
ings upon criminal charges, frequently found the bills
without examining witnesses, upon the mere inspection
of the depositions taken by the committing magistrates.

* Thomas Spring Rice, Esq., the present Lord Monteagle.

28=^

330 IRISH GRAND JURY LAWS. [1816.

This instance of the corruption of law and justice in that
neglected country, and of the manner in which the gen-
try disregard the rights of the lower orders, made so
strong an impression upon me, that when I was named a
member of the committee upon presentments, I thought
that an opportunity not to be lost for ascertaining the
extent of so culpable a practice. We examined as wit-
nesses most of the county members of Ireland, and
many other gentlemen who had served as grand jurors;
I started the inquiry with the very first of them, and
the committee followed it up with the rest, and the
result ascertained was, that with very few excep-
tions, the general practice of the grand juries was to
find their bills without examining witnesses, "unless,"
(as the Irish gentlemen very simply said,) " unless
they had doubts ; " and with the universal excep-
tion of bills for one crime, which you will think a
curious one, rape, in which they always made the
witness, that is, the woman, tell the story. The Eng-
lish members of the committee were much scanda-
lised at this discovery, and, with the assistauce of the
most respectable Irishmen upon it, we tried a propo-
sition for a special report to the House upon this parti-
cular point; but we were left in a minority, PeeP^= and
Fitzgerald taking a strong part against us. I then told
the committee, that the thing seemed to me so import-
ant that I would take it upon myself to bring it Ijefore
the House, and I gave notice immediately of a bill to
declare the law. In the interval, after my notice, Peel
had an opportunity of consulting the crown lawyers
here, wdio told him, of course, that the practice in Ire-
land could not be vindicated, but was clearly against

* The present Sir Robert Peel, then Chief Secretary for Ireland.

JEt. 38.] IRISH GRAND JURY LAWS. 33I

law. On the other hand, after a correspondence with
the Irish Chancellor and the Judges, he found them ill
prepared to admit a correction of the practice, and very
sore under the apprehension that their conduct woidd
he reprobated for allowing such a deviation from the
certain and clear principle of the constitution to exist in
practice. This conflict of authorities embarrassed Peel ;
and as the summer assizes were approaching, he natu-
rally felt some anxiety at the prospect of so important
a change being suddenly forced upon the judges and
grand juries.

He applied to me, therefore, with a request that I
would postpone my motion to the following session,
stating, at the same time, his conviction that something
ought then to be done, to make the Irish practice con-
formable to the English law. I felt it to be of so much
importance to secure his assent to the measure, that I
agreed to postpone it ; and we came to a distinct under-
standing about it, one point only being left open, —
whether it should be a declaratory bill, which I thought
the only right course, or an enacting one, which he
thought would save the Irish judges from immediate
reproach, and the past proceedings of the criminal
courts from being questioned by the people. In the
present distracted state of that unhappy country, I felt
there was some weight in this last suggestion.

Upon the prorogation of Parliament, feeling this to
be a subject of considerable moment, I thought I could
not do better than write to Plunkett, desiring his advice
about it, and communicating to him my own notions, as
well as the footing upon which the matter stood, under
my arrangement with Peel. I considered it as very
blameable in him, that the whole summer passed without
my receiving any answer from him. And his subsequent

332 IRISH GRAND JURY LAWS. [1816.

conduct lias since, to my mind, explained his silence, in
a manner that does not leave a very satisfactory impres-
sion.

As soon as Parliament met again, I renewed my notice
of motion ; and obtained leave to bring in my bill, with-
out opposition from any quarter : I determined, however,
not to press it on, until there was a full attendance from
Ireland, and until they had every opportunity of urging
any objections they had to it. I likewise took a decided
tone of proposing it, merely as a prospective measure,
for the better administration of justice in future, without
loading any persons with blame for what they had
suffered to be done. I took this course, from a convic-
tion of the necessity, above every thing else, in Ireland,
of maintaining the authority and character of the judges,
difficult as it is to do so. I found that Peel adhered
most honourably to the engagement he had come under ;
but he informed me, that the Irish judges were extremely
hostile to my bill, and denied the law to be what I stated.
He communicated to me a variety of documents which
they had prepared upon the subject ; a long letter from
the Lord Chief Justice Downes to Lord Chancellor
Manners ; and an account of solemn deliberations held
by the Irish judges, so far back as the year 1762, at a
time when Mr. Justice Aston, who had recently gone
over there from Westminster Hall, told them their prac-
tice, in this respect, was a violation of the law ; but they
solemnly decided that it was very good law for Ireland.
I shall be glad to show you these papers one day ; a
careful examination of their arguments and mistaken
authorities satisfied me of two things; first, that they
found themselves defending a practice, which they were
conscious could not in point of law be defended ; and^
secondly, that it was so inveterate an abuse that it was

^T. 38.] IRISH GRAND JURY LAWS. 333

hardly to be imputed as matter of blame to the judges
of the present day, that they went on with what they
found established.

At this stage of the business, after I had considered
all these documents, I was annoyed with at length
receiving a letter from Plunkett, in which, to my morti-
fication, I found that he was in the same strain with the
judges, repeated to me all their feeble reasonings and
ill-understood authorities, and was so entirely in concert
with them, that he sent me copies of the same papers
which they had laid before the secretary. I determined,
against these j)rejudices of the Irish lawyers in favour of
their own practice, to make the best use I could of the
prejudices of the English lawyers in favour of their own
law, and to go on with my Bill ; putting off the discus-
sion till Plunkett should come to England. Though he
professed much anxiety to oppose it in Parliament, he
gave me no opportunity of meeting him in discussion ;
for, coming over while we were all upon our circuits,
before my return he went away to Paris, and in his way
back to Ireland only stopped a day for Grattan's ques-
tion. I shall show you his letter to me.

When I brought on the Bill, which I made declaratory
in its form, avoiding all offence in the preamble, I met
with no serious opposition ; government acceding to its
propriety and necessity. The judges employed a gen-
tleman, who is come in for Armagh, as Dr. Duigenan's
successor, a retired barrister, to urge their objections and
their authority against it ; but he showed no knowledge
or ability, and was not even worth answering.

Lord Castlereagh urged me to admit a clause into the
bill, by which the judges are permitted to give the
grand juries the use of the depositions, in order to guide
them in their examination of the witnesses, as well as

334 IRISH GRAND JURY LAWS. [1816.

to enable them to detect prevarication and perjury in
the grand jury room. I did not reUsh this; because
what the judges have maintained, against every princi-
ple of law, is, that these depositions, though no evidence
to the petty jur}^, were good lawful evidence to the
grand jury. I was afraid, therefore, of compromising
the principle of my Bill ; but he and other Irishmen
urged so much the difficulties their grand juries would
at first experience, and the danger of perjury being mul-
tiplied and crimes compounded, if witnesses for the
crown knew that they might with impunity unswear in
the grand jury room what they had sworn before the
magistrate, that I found myself under the necessity of
consenting to this clause ; but I insisted, at the same
time, upon guarding it with words that should expressly
negative the doctrine of the judges, as to these deposi-
tions being in any point of view lawful evidence, or to
be used as such. And so the bill passed. I happened
to be on the steps of the throne one day, when Lord
Ellenborough came to tell me he had just been reading
it, and he saw nothing to object to but one clause ; this
was Castlereagh's clause, and I told him so : he said he
disliked giving these Irish gentlemen any rope, they
were so apt to swing too far.

I have made a tiresome history of this little produc-
tion of mine ; but when I began to tell you any thing
about it, I did not know how to tell you intelligibly less
than the whole. It is likely enough that some difficul-
ties will be found, and some made, in the first applica-
tion of a law which both the judges and the grand juries
dislike ; the former, because it has been thrust upon
them, and carries by implication no inconsiderable cen-
sure upon their past administration of the penal law ;
the latter, because the more careful performance of their

^T. 38.] IRISH GRAND JURY LAWS. 335

duty, as a grand inquest upon bills of indictment, Avill
keep them from proceeding at once to their more agree-
able function, of voting money to themselves for their
roads and other jobs. One indirect benefit that will be
derived from my Act is, that it will render some new
arrangement indispensably and immediately necessary,
with regard to the business of these money present-
ments, which ought never to have been coupled with
the proceedings of the assizes. But the chief advantage
and main argument for the Bill lies in its principle ; by
which a more solemn and deliberate administration of
the law, in those proceedings which affect the lower
orders, and are laid open to their inspection, wall, by
degrees, be introduced and enforced. This is one only
of many legislative measures that are called for with the
same view. One of the great sources of disorder and
violence in Ireland is admitted to be the habitual want
of reverence and submission to the law, that prevails
among all classes of the community ; and, it must be
owned, wdien one comes to see in detail, how the most
important institutions provided by the law, for solemnity
and for the protection of innocence, are slighted and
perverted, wherever the selfish interests of the squire-
archy (as it has been humorously called) come in compe-
tition, and how the most palpable corruptions and abuses
are screened by the prejudices of the law^yers, one can
hardly wonder- that the law and the government in that
country are so little revered and obeyed. The vindic-
tive power of the criminal law, and the rapacity of civil
justice, are well known to the peasantry and the rest of
the lower orders ; but it is only as a punisher and oppres-
sor that it is known at all. I believe there is no parti-
cular, in police or administration, in which the present
situation of Ireland differs more from that of the whole

336 IRISH GRAND JURY LAWS. [1816.

of this island. Let me at last release you from this
volume of a letter.

Yours ever affectionately,

Fra. Horner.

In the year 1831, Mr. Spring Rice had the kindness
to send me two letters, which he had received from my
brother, in June, 1815, when his attention had been first
directed to this subject, by reading the pamphlet of
Mr. Rice, referred to at the beginning of the above let-
ter to Mr. Murray, a copy of which he had received
from the author. As the letter to Mr. Murray contains
the substance of Mr. Horner's letters to Mr. Spring Rice,
it is unnecessary to insert them here ; but Mr. Rice,
when he sent them to me, added the following interest-
ing statement, which renders the history of the measure
more complete.

" Mr. Spring Rice expressed to Mr. Horner his anxiety
that the bill should be declaratory rather than enacting,
as, if the latter course were taken, it might raise doubts
whether the law of evidence was the same in both parts
of the empire, and inferences might even from thence
be raised with respect to the whole common law of Ire-
land. Mr. Peel's apprehensions with respect to the feel-
ings of the Irish judges were fully realised by the event.
It is generally understood that those functionaries met,
and, w^ith one or two exceptions, protested against Mr.
Horner's measure, not only as an innovation wholly
uncalled for, but as one which stigmatised the judicial
procedure of Ireland as unconstitutional and illegal. It
was said that this existing system had never been com-
plained of, that it had existed from time immemorial,
that it had not only been sanctioned by the authority of

^T. 38.] IRISH GRAND JURY LAWS. 337

the most eminent practical characters in modern times,
Chief Baron Hussey Bm-gh, Lord Kilwarden, Lord Avon-
more, and others, but that Cliief Baron Gilbert, recog-
nised as a text writer on the law of evidence, had
approved of a practice which the rashness of modern
reform and the theories of a Scotchman, miacquainted
with Ireland, its wants, or interests, sought to overthrow.
Mr. Horner's intended bill was made the matter of acri-
monious animadversion by Lord Norbury, the Chief Jus-
tice of the Common Pleas. This learned person endea-
voured to raise a cry against the change, as involving
an attack upon Ireland, and all its institutions. These
efforts entirely failed, and Mr. Horner's bill was carried
without any parliamentary opposition.

" The importance of this reform can hardly be suffi-
ciently appreciated. It should be recollected that in
1815, and indeed it may be added in later times, the
state of the Irish magistracy was, to use the words of
the late Mr. Ponsonby ' amj ilmg hut loliat it ought to he!
Divided into parties, where one justice of the peace
committed, his neighbour interfered to bail. No meet-
ings at petty sessions were known ; and local politics
and religious differences were but too frequently the
causes of partiality and of undue bias. Where an infor-
mation was sworn, the usual course taken on the part of
the person charged was to apply to a magistrate, and
swear a cross information against the complainant. Both
parties were either bailed or committed, and the
aggrieved, as well as the criminal party, was sent in, to
stand trial. A person who might be an inconvenient
witness was included in the information, and all became
confusion, as well as injustice. The magistrates were
careless, even when they were not open to more serious
suspicions. But when the name of the committing

VOL. II. 29

338 IRISH GRAND JURY LAWS. [1816.

magistrates came before the grand jury, and that the
committal and charge were compared with the evidence
for the prosecution, in the presence of twenty-three of
the principal gentry of the county, much more discre-
tion was necessarily used, and not only were the people
protected against unjust accusations, but a reform was
necessarily produced in the conduct of the magistracy.
The course of justice became more certain, the number
of convictions increased in proportion to the commit-
ments. The system of indictment and cross indictment
was checked; and though it was expected that the
business of grand juries Avould become more heavy, it
was, in fact, lightened, and performed in a manner in-
finitely more satisfactory.

" If the life of Mr. Horner had been spared, he would
have had the satisfaction of finding that all parties, even
including the judges, concurred in approving of his Bill
within a very few years of their mistaken and jealous
opposition. The magnitude, as well as the effective
nature of this reform, is now admitted on all hands ; and
it is certainly not among the least important of Mr.
Horner's services in Parliament, to have succeeded in this
great reform, opposed as he was by those whose legal
authority presented an obstacle difficult to be overcome.
The conduct of the Irish judges is one among many
proofs, that those who administer the laws can seldom
bring themselves to take large or useful views of legal
reform. Their faggots of ideas are bound up, they can-
not bring themselves to unloose them, and the very
complexities and obscurities which are sources of loss and
inconvenience to others jDresent to them difficulties to
be overcome, opportunities of gratifying their self-love,
by displays of learning, and proofs of ingenuity and
research."

JEt. 38.] TREATIES OF PEACE.

TREATIES OF PEACE.

On the second day of the session, Lord Castlereagh
presented to the House, by command of the Prince Re-
gent, the " General Treaty, signed in Congress at Vienna,
June 9, 1815, with the acts thereunto annexed," and on
a subsequent day, the Definitive Treaty concUided at
Paris, on the 20th of November, 1815, with the King of
France. On the 19th of February, in moving an Ad-
dress of Thanks to the Prince Regent for these com-
munications, he entered into a full exposition and de-
fence of the policy of the allied powers in the arrange-
ments which took place at the Congress of Vienna, in
the whole course of the measures which led to the com-
mencement, the prosecution, and conclusion of the war,
occasioned by the return of Bonaparte from Elba, as
well as the subsequent negotiations of Paris ; and he
characterised the proceedings of the Congress of Vienna
as being only a definitive arrangement of the treaty of
peace concluded at Paris, in May, 1814. He ended by
moving a series of resolutions, expressing the satisfaction
of the House with the terms of these treaties, and more
particularly, " that it had been found practicable to com-
bine the measures which Europe owed to its own safety
with a just and liberal policy towards his most Christian
Majesty."

Lord Milton moved, as an amendment, a series of
counter resolutions, condemnatory of the policy which
had been pursued, and of the terms of the treaties which
had been concluded. This amendment was supported
by Sir James Mackintosh in a long and able speech -, and
after he sat down the debate was adjourned. It was re-
sumed the following day, when Sir Samuel Romilly fol-

340 CORRESrONDENCE. [1816.

lowed on the same side, reprobating especially the estab-
lishment of Louis XVIII. on the throne of France, by a
military force, against the will of the nation.

After several other members had spoken, Mr. Horner
rose, late in the evening, and delivered a speech which
appears to have made a great impression. It is de-
scribed by Sir Samuel Romilly in his Diary * as having
been "admirable ;" and I am informed that the Speaker,
the late Lord Colchester, said of it, that it was " most
powerful, argumentative, and profound, and altogether
one of the most able speeches he had ever heard in that
House." The report of it, as given in Hansard's De-
bates, will be found in the Appendix.

Letter CCLYIII. TO HIS MOTHER.
My dear Mother, 2ist Feb. 18I6.

I have not time to write more than a few lines
to-day ; for after being up nearly all night, I have been
very busy all morning in the House of Lords. You will
find I w^as busy too in the other House ; whether the
newspaper gives any correct account of me, I do not
know yet, for, except looking at the praises bestowed
upon me, which of course I found time to read, I have
not read the report. My friends tell me I did well ; and
I have great satisfaction in having had my breath out
about the Bourbons and Castlereagh.
My kind love to all at home.

Most affectionately yours,

Fka. Horner.

* " The topics on -which I principally dwelt had not been touched upon by
speaker who had pi'eceded me ; but most of them Avere afterwards very

iEx. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 341

Letter CCLIX. FROM JAMES MACDONALD, ESQ.*

My dear Horner, Calne, 22a Feb. 18IG.

I really cannot resist writing you a line to con-
gratulate you on your brilliant success on Tuesday
night. Even the outline of your speech, as given in
the Morning Chronicle, enables me to judge a little of
the nature, and of the value of the speech itself There
is no man in the House of Commons, in whose career I
feel a more lively interest than yours ; and I may say to
you, without being suspected of flattery, that the im-
pression you have already produced in the present ses-
sion miiversalhj, must be a cause of exultation, though
certainly not of surprise, to your friends. This is one
of the considerations which make me rejoice in return-
ing to Parliament : my election takes place to-morrow.

Yours faithfully,

J. Macdonald.

Letter CCLX. FROM JOHN WHISHAAV, ESQ.
My dear Horner Lincoln's inn, 24th Feb. 1816.

I have been particularly desirous of seeing you
lately, to congratulate you upon 3^our speech of Tues-
day, which has been the topic of conversation, wherever
I have been for the last two or three days. You must
already have felt that it establishes your character and
station, not only in Parliament, but with the public ; and
that it is universally considered as a most important

eloquently enforced in an admirable speech made by Horner." — Memoirs of
Sir Samuel Rotnilly, vol. iii. p. 220, 1st edition.
* Son of Sir Archibald Macdonald, Chief Baron of the Court of Exchequer.

29*

342 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816

event for the political party to which we are attached.
It is needless for me to say how much I have been de-
lighted with all I have heard upon this mteresting sub-
ject from various quarters, and which I have felt almost
as a matter o^ personal congratulation.
I remain, my dear Horner,

Ever yours most truly,

John "Whishaw.

Letter CCLXI. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.

My dear Murray, Temple, 27th Feb. i8i6.

My circuit begins on the 5th of March ; but my
engagements in the House of Lords will not permit me
to join it early, perhaps not before the 18th. I shall be
back from it by Friday, the 5th of April, and from that
time I shall remain in London.

It is no common degree of gratification to hear from
you, that you coincide with me in the opinions which I
have been lately expressing in Parliament, if you include
in that approbation my sentiments upon the Treaty of
Peace. For I was afraid that there, perhaps, you might
think me too unfavourable to the principles and views
upon which the precautionary measures of the allies are
founded. My disapprobation of what has been done,
and my apprehensions concerning its future conse-
quences, are no doubt derived out of opinions which I
have long held fast, yet I cannot accuse myself of hav-
ing failed, upon the present occasion, to review and re-
consider them Avith some coolness and anxiety. There
are changes in the whole frame of European politics, and
in our domestic scheme of liberties, which are going on
much faster than politics ever before seemed to me to
move. It is a movement, perhaps, which has resulted

^T. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 343

from causes that were put in action long ago, though
their force has been compressed for an interval by
counteracting circumstances, which have been suddenly
removed. In the most formidable periods of the French
military power, my dread never was of its prevailing
against us in this island by conquest, but of the inroads
that our s^^stem of defence was making upon the consti-
tutional forms of our parliamentary government, and
upon the constitutional habits of the English commons.

We are nearly declared to be a military power. If
this design is not checked, of which I have slender hopes,
or does not break down by favour of accidents, we shall
have a transient glory, for some little while ; the bravery
of our men, the virtues which the long enjoyment of
liberty will leave long after it is gone, and the financial
exertions of which we are still capable, will insure us
that distinction ; but it is a glory in which our freedom
will be lost, and which cannot maintain itself when the
vigour, born of that freedom, is spent. Do not tell any
body of these gloomy visions of mine ; they will appear
absurd and insincere ; above all, do not tell them to
Jeffrey, or I shall see mj^self niched in some sentence
against moping Whigs who love Bonaparte. I have in
my heart infinitely more apprehension, about the future
fate of English liberty, than I ever permit myself to
express in public; one chance of preserving it, is to
keep up the tone of the public sentiment, particularly
in Parliament, to the consciousness and confidence of
still being free. I heard you were to dine at my father's
last Saturday ; I hope you had a pleasant day.
Most affectionately yours.

Era. Horxer.

344 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

Letter CCLXn. TO HENRY HALLAM, ESQ.
My clear Hallam, SidmoutL, irth March, 1816.

One of my sisters desires me to forward the en-
closed letter to Mrs. Hallam.

I fancy you will not agree with me, in being sorry to
see, that nothing has been said by any body, upon the
bills relating to the prisoner at St. Helena, expressive of
a regret that it was cast upon this country to execute so
odious a part of the arrangements to which the victory
of Waterloo has led. You know all my sentiments
about the man, how little I share any of that admiration
which his extraordinary fortunes and character have
imposed upon some persons, and how much I execrated
all along his tyranny and military ambition, and enmity
to all civil liberty. At the height of his power, I
expressed myself more strongly against him than I should
permit myself to do pubhcly now. In the treatment
he has met with, I feel no inclination to deny, that the
sparing of his life is an act of humanity, such as is not
recorded of any of those former ages in which such
characters and events are to be found : yet I cannot but
feel, at the same time, that, when a few years more are
gone by, and we can all look back upon these transac-
tions from some distance, it will be our regret and morti-
fication that the government of this day could see no
safety for Europe against a single man, but in transport-
ing him to a rock in the ocean, and that in leaving him
his life, we have taken all that can make life any thing
but a torment. I do not mean to make a stronger im-
putation, than that we have been wanting in magna-
nimity, where the opportunity was obvious and com-
manding. But this country has reached too high a star

JEt. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 345

ti'on, to be at liberty to miss such opportunities. Our
virtues must rise with our fortune, or we shall be thought
to have been unworthy of it: a large and secure gene-
rosity, is one of the conditions by which we are to hold
our greatness. Instead of this, we have treated our
captive with the timid severity of a little republic ; and
have lowered ourselves to the notions of our despot allies,
who know nothing of safety but in force and bonds.
Perhaps, some years hence, at the point of view which I
anticipate, I shall soberly discover all this to be a ro-
mance. I can say, without any affectation, that I shall
have nothing but pleasure in seeing the glory of the
country quite clear of the stain which I think I see
upon it at present. Do you hear any thing of Canning's
coming into office ? I wish he were back in the House
of Commons ; it would refresh one's mind, to hear
something like eloquence again, and to see a man at
work, who, with all his faults, owes his means of great-
ness to his power in that House. His faults, it must be
owned, and especially his late errors, are miserable.

Yours ever faithfully,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCLXIH. FROM HENRY HALLAM, ESQ.
My dear Horner, Stamp Office, lOth March, 1816.

I suppose that you will expect me to begin by
congratulating you on last night's division;* hit, all
things considered, I am much inclined to do so, not as a
party triumph, for I scarcely think your keenest jim/Yz-
sans can well put that construction on it ; but for one
or two reasons which rather overbalance, in my mind,

* On tlic Property Tax, when Ministers were in a minority of thirty-seven.

346 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

the very serious evil of adding to our enormous debt in
time of peace. These reasons are, first, the extreme
distress which prevails in many parts of the country,
and which must render the tax almost insupportable ;
and, secondly, the danger of increasing the odium under
which the House of Commons already labours among a
large class of people, by so decidedly resisting the wishes
of the nation.

I believe this division was wholly unexpected on both
sides. Arbuthnot calculated on a majority of 40 ; Oppo-
sition rather, I believe, expected to lose it by 20. Stur-
ges Bourne alone, of those I happened to see, appeared
to anticipate this result, though not, of course, by so

great a difference of numbers. Perhaps poor

will be made the scape-goat ; for you see that Huskisson
never committed himself by a syllable in favour of the
tax.

Perhaps I do not very clearly understand your feel-
ings about Bonaparte. It must, I think, be admitted
that he could not have been left at liberty without pro-
digious risk of excitinsc fresh disturbance in the unset-
tied state of Europe. I do not perceive that you disa-
gree from this ; yet you speak of the opportunity of
acting with magnanimity being obvious and command-
ing. God forbid we should be influenced by the base
spirit of trampling on a man whom we certainly feared,
thoudi we did not flatter, like our continental allies. I
once wished that Bonaparte should have found a tran-
quil asylum in this island ; but, when I see the foolish
admiration which many persons entertain for that man,
and the still more foolish association of his name with
the love of liberty, I cannot desire to see his court, as it
were, frequented by all the discontented, as well as all
the idle and curious. Nor do I think it would be easy

^T. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. ^^^

to obtain an adequate security against" his escape from
this country, except by measures ahnost as severe as
those now adopted at St. Helena, of which I shoukl be
sorry to see a precedent estabUshed in Britain. The
condition of Ireland affords another argument against
allowing him to reside in this country. As to the degree
of confinement, no doubt that ought to be as slight as
is consistent wdtli security. The precautions now taken
appear to be needlessly vexatious; and if he requires
to be watched so strictly upon his rock, it must be a
much less secure place of confinement than it has been
represented. Perhaps you only object to this excess of
surveillance; and in this I should thoroughly concur.
But, as Europe now stands, I hardly see where else,
imless it were Malta, he could be detained with safety.
Ever most truly yours,

H. Hallam.

Letter CCLXIV. FROM LORD WEBB SEYMOUR.

My dear Horner, Edinburgh, 27th March, isiG.

For a long while past I have been anxious to write
to you upon a subject on which I cannot enter without
some embarrassment. Our views and sentiments upon
politics have been growing wider and wider apart for
the last two years, and though such differences between
friends must be expected in the course of life, and mu-
tually indulged, yet any material error in politics threa-
tens to detract so much from your high character, and
so much from the good which your talents and virtuous
intentions may produce to the country, that I cannot
refrain from telling you I think you are in the wrong,
and how I think you come to be so. That you think
me equally in the wrong, follows of course ; and you are

348 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816

of course amply prepared with a defence against any
argument I should offer against the opinions you have
entertained respecting the characters, measures, and
events of the grand story we have witnessed. Such dis-
cussion could only have the effect of calling up your
habitual trains of thought, and those warm feelings
which they have produced, and which in turn have done
so much to produce them. I shall therefore address you
in another way, and venture to place my authority in
the balance against yours; with all respect for your
more extensive and accurate knowledge upon political
matters, your closer intercourse with men and things,
and your daily and hourly reflections upon them ; yet
trusting on my side to the calmness of the station, from
which I am allowed to look on, to my freedom from the
keenness of party warfare, and to the constant exercise
of a judgment, which my friends allow to be tolerably
candid on other subjects, and for which, on the present,
I can see no source of bias, except what might have
disposed me to lean too much towards your side. I will
tell you plainly my opinion of the state of your mind,
and leave it to any weight that I may have with you to
bring that opinion under your serious consideration in
some quiet hour.

It seems to me, then, that, from your habitual antipa-
thy and active zeal against the members of our present
government, and your warm attachment to friends, Avith
whom every private, as well as public, feeling has made
it almost a religion to agree, your favour and aversion
have been extended to every person and event, accord-
ing to their connexion with, or opposition to, the one
party or the other. Thence has arisen the indulgent
tenderness towards Bonaparte and his adherents, — a
tenderness which always increased, not so much, I be-

iET. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 349

lieve, with the clechne of their fortunes, as with the
swelHng triumph of their enemies: thence the ready
suspicion of meanness, treachery, and selfishness in tlie
alUes, the angry censure of every step that did not
accord with the most high-minded notions of poUtical
moraUty, and the insensibility to a generosity and recti-
tude in the great outlines of their conduct, to which the
history of the world affords few parallels: thence the
asperity against the Bourbon family, whose weakness
and bigotry were for ever dwelt upon, while the diffi-
culties of their situation were forgotten, and what was
humane and liberal in their policy overlooked : thence
the apprehensions of a revival of a superstitious rever-
ence for royalty, while it w^as not considered that the
restoration of the old djaiasty w^as connected with
the deliverance of Europe from the threatening evils of
a military despotism of the most profligate character ;
and that with respect to France, the weakness of the
executive power favoured the growth of civil liberty at
home, while it promised security to her neighbours.
The j)revalence of such partial views in your mind may,
in some degree, be ascribed to certain noble sentiments,
which the circumstances of the times made you cherish
in early youth, an admiration for talent and energy of
character, and the wish to see those only who possess
them at the head of affairs, a hatred for the corruptions
of superannuated governments, and bright hopes for man-
kind from their overthrow, an abhorrence of the crafty
domineering of priests, and a scorn of the ignorance, the
incapacity, and the low vices, so often occurring in the
families of princes, when the line has long been seated
quietly on the throne. But the main source of bias is
the constant society of your party friends in London.
I can conceive no situation more seducing to the mind,
VOL. II. 30

350 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

than to be going on among a set of men, — most of
whom are united in the harmony of friendship and so-
cial enjoyment, — all extolling the talents and princi-
ples of each other, — all ardent for the same objects,
though each impelled by a various mixture of private
and public motives, — all anxious to detect, to communi-
cate, and to enlarge upon, whatever is to the disadvan-
tage of their adversaries, and to keep out of sight what-
ever presents itself in their favour, — all vicing with
each other, not only in every public debate, but at every
dinner, and in every morning walk, to magnify the partial
views, to which each by himself is naturally led. Most
men, when long actuated by any keen interest in their
jDrivate affairs, are liable to bias; how much more must
this be the case, when a number of minds are re-actino;
upon each other in the strenuous prosecution of a com-
mon cause, when there is the mutual support of each
other's authority, no reference to opinion beyond the
limits of the party, and the proud notion that the good
of the country depends mainly on the practical adop-
tion of their own principles ? Look around, among all
you have ever known, and name me a man whose judg-
ment you would have said beforehand could remain
firm and right under such warping influence. And how
seldom, in history, do we find an active associate of any
sect or party retaining a tolerable degree of candour !
Such reflections should make you occasionally suspect
yourself, as well as those of your party friends, on whose
understandings and integrity you place the strongest re-
liance. It was a striking lesson to remark last year, and
the year before, the unprejudiced judgment and lan-
guage of the Whigs, who were at a distance from the
struggle between the parties, when compared with the
sentiments of those who were engaged in it \ and on the

jEt. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 3 51

former side of this contrast, I am happy to place Jeffrey,
J. Murray, Dngald Stewart, Mr. Wilson, Mr. J. Clerk,
Lord Minto, and Ilallam. Perhaps your consciousness
of a high spirit of independence makes you too little on
your guard against the influence of those around you.
There are many cases, in which I could trust to the can-
dour of your judgment ; but not so, when certain strong
feelings are connected with the point in question.
Above all I conld not trust you, where your affections
are involved ; for that warmth of heart, and steadiness
of attachment, which are such charms in your character,
must then interfere, and I have observed them to do so.
I wish that your party friends were more aware of
the light in which their temper and conduct appear to
many people, who, with no strong feeling either for or
asrainst Ministers, are anxious for the best interests of
their country and of mankind. Men thus disposed, and
with various degrees of intelligence, are, I imagine,
pretty numerously scattered throughout the island ; and
these are the men, whose approbation they must be am-
bitious of, if their motives are pure, and whose support,
if they are prudent, they must be eager to gain. During
the last two years they would have often found the
sentiments of such people at variance with their own.
They would have found them sometimes lamenting,
and sometimes indignant, to see men, who profess
themselves patriots and philanthropists, steadily turn-
ing away from every joyful event, and every bright
prospect, to dwell only upon the few intermingled
occasions of regret, or censure, or despondency, and
uttering nought but groans over the fate of Norway,
or Spain, or Saxony, or Genoa, w^hile our own country,
and half the civilised world, felt as if breathing wdien
first risen from a bed of imminent death. I wish your

352 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

friends could have heard iu secret the opinions of the
impartial upon the justice and expediency of the war
last year ; I wish they could now hear the expressions I
have heard, — from some who entertain the soundest
Whig principles, and lean towards their party, — of dread
at the idea of any man being in office, whose indulgent
favour of Napoleon might render it, in however small a
degree, more likely that he should escape from his con-
finement, and again throw the world into confusion.

Opposition in Parliament is generally conducted upon
one very false principle, namel}^, that the measures of
Ministers must, in every case, be so far wrong, as to
deserve, upon the whole, very severe reprobation. I
will not suppose this principle to be speculatively recog-
nised ; but it seems, at least, to be practically adopted.
Now it is plain, that where a set of men have the good
of the country mainly at heart, and have tolerable capa-
cities for business, though their talents be neither pro-
found nor brilliant, and though their principles lean
rather more than is right in favour of the Crown, yet
their measures must, in all probability, be often as good
as circumstances will admit of, and sometimes entitled to
praise for unusual prudence or magnanimity^ On such
occasions justice is, for the most part, denied them alto-
gether by the opposition side of the House ; or, if praise
is bestowed at all, it is bestowed in feeble terms, and
with reservations much insisted on ; but what is denied
them in Parliament is granted by an impartial public
without doors, with proportionate disgust at the bitter
and unremitting censures of factious enmity. Upon
this point I must add, that I heard it said ( by a friend
too) that you hurt yourself in the opinion of the pubHc,
by some want of candour towards the latter part of the
last session.

2Et. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 353

Do not conceive that I am insensible to the benefits,
which the country derives from a vigorous opposition.
But I am confident that these benefits might be greatly
increased, and every interest of the opposition party
much advanced, if the temper, which party is sure to
generate, were better controlled by those, at least, whose
talents place them at its head ; and if their views, freed
from the bias of that temper, accorded more with the
sentiments of an enlightened, and almost neutral, part
of the nation. Opposition, even when carried on with
the spirit of Sir Francis Burdett, is a check to abuses,
and a safeguard to our liberty ; there are few, however,
with intelligence superior to that of the mob, who would
ftivour his political objects. Mr. Whitbread's conduct in
opposition was of a higher character; a friend of the
people, and a firm foe to corruption, he was entitled to
great respect ; yet there were occasions when I could
not have wished to see Mr. Whitbread in office, from the
fear of his acting upon those mistaken notions, and with
that vehement and perverse spirit, which appeared in
his attacks upon Government, and which sometimes made
him even go beyond the sentiments of his own political
friends. There are higher stations in Opposition than
that of Mr. Whitbread, — higher, from a display of more
temperate and candid judgment. I would fain see you
occupying the highest in this, as well as in other re-
spects ; and I would fain know that the dignified pro-
priety of language and demeanour, which you have so
successfully cultivated in the House, was founded upon
just and moderate views of events, and men, and
measures.-'' Believe me, my dear Horner,

Yours ever, very affectionately,

Webb Seymour.

* Sec the answer to this letter, 15th June, p. 332.

30*

or^ HOUSE OF COMMONS. [1816.

ALIEN BILL.

Lord Castlereagh, on the 25tli of April, moved for
leave to bring in a Bill to repeal the Act of the preced-
ing session respecting aliens, and to substitute other pro-
visions, for a time to be limited, in lieu of it He said,
" that although tranquillity in Europe had been restored,
the situation of the British empire Avas still such as to
require precautions against the possibility of the dis-
turbance of internal security. That the Crown, in truth,
possessed the right of sending aliens out of the realm,
on suspicion that they were concerned in practices dan-
gerous to the state ; but it had been thought wise, since
the time of Mr. Pitt, to arm the executive with the
countenance of the legislature."

Mr. Horner ito mediately rose and said, that he should,
in the very outset, give such a proposal his decided nega-
tive. His speech on this first introduction of the Bill,
as well as those which he delivered in its subsequent
stages, will be found in the Appendix. He denounced
the measure as unconstitutional ; as contrary to the an-
cient and wholesome system of poHcy, which treated
strangers with liberality and confidence ; and as inflicting
upon the national character a lasting reproach. He
declared it, moreover, to be unnecessary, because the
operation of the common law would be a sufficient
remedy, for any misconduct of which aliens in this
country might be guilty.

BAl^K OF ENGLAND.

On the 1st of May he moved for the appointment of
a select committee " to inquire into the expediency of

iEx. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 355

restoring the cash payments of the Bank of England,
and the safest and most advantageous mode of effecting
it." The outlhic, contained in Hansard's Debates, of his
speech on this great question, and of his reply to those
who dissented from the doctrines he laid down, are given
in the Appendix.

Letter CCLXV. TO IIIS SISTER, MISS AXNE HORNER.

My dear Nancy, London, 20tli May, isic.

I have been passing Saturday and Sunday at
Mr. Sharp's, at Mickleham, with Mr. Grattan; and it
was a very agreeable excursion. I went and returned
with Mr. Grattan, whose conversation about Ireland, and
especially the past history of Ireland, as well as upon
literature, is full of interest and genius. He has been
giving me to-day, as we came to town, the history of
what was done at the famous period of 1782 ; and he
made me acquainted with some parts of that great
transaction, and particularly his own share in it, which
I did not know before. This little excursion was on
purpose to hear the nightingales, for he loves music
like an Italian, and the country like a true-born English-
man. Both beauties are in full perfection at Eedley,
where there are more nightingales in chorus than are
to be heard any where else. He is full of English
and Latin poetry, too, and deals very much in pas-
sages from both, when he is at his ease ; which, with
his ardour for Ireland, and his characteristic sketches
of persons with whom he has acted in public life, and
a great deal of fun, and benevolence, and sense about
all things, make him a very entertaining companion.
At the age of seventy, too, for I fear he is nearly as

356 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

much, and with the veneration that belongs to his name,
from the figure he has made in our poUtics, it is impos-
sible not to take a deep interest in one who renders
himself so accessible and so instructive.

I have read the Antiquary, which is inferior as a
story to the other two, but, indeed, they are all very in-
differently executed in that respect. The scene at the
Country Post Office is admirable ; the humour very true
and lively, and poor Jenny Caxon's disappointment
quite touching. But the Fisherman's Family is the
real interest of the book ; and I have forgot if there is
any thing in Waverley or Guy Mannering equal to it.
The old woman is quite sublime, till she is awak-
ened to tell her story, and then she becomes com-
monplace ; but her dotage and melancholy are terrify-
ing. The funeral is very affecting j and particularly that
stroke of nature, where the mother looks for some relief
from her sorrow in a fiijte with Miss Grizzell at Monk-
barns. The Gaberlunzie seems to me exaggerated and
inconsistent, and a bad copy of Meg Merrilies.
Most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCLXVI. TO HIS FATHER.
Mv dear Sir Holland House, 5th June, 181G.

I had the pleasure of receiving jour kind letter.
Leonard, I hope, is now restored to good health : per-
haps I shall have accounts to-day, when my servant re-
turns from town with my letters. I have been here for
three or four days, during our Whitsun holidays ; Lady
Holland taking almost as much care of me, when she
fancies I need it, as if I were in my own dear mother's
hands. I am still a little plagued with a cough, in which

^T. 38.] COmiESrONDENCE. 357

there is nothing at all material, except the circumstance
of its continuing so long, which I think is owing to the
cold weather. To be quite sure of this, I have (by Lady
Holland's desire) seen Dr. Warren, who thinks there is
nothing in it ; but considers the stomach, as of old,
chiefly in fault, and has given me some directions to
observe on that head.

My sisters seem to have taken it for granted, that I
have fixed upon my summer plans, to the exclusion of
Scotland. But that is by no means the case. I rather
think, if I travel at all, it will be to see you ; but I am
not without thoughts of staying quietly at home, in
order to read a little law, for which I have but few op-
portunities at other times of the year. But I have made
no resolution yet.

My kind love to my mother and my sisters.
Ever, my dear Sir,

Most affectionately yours,

Era. Horner.

Letter CCLXVII. TO HIS FATHEK.
My dear Sir, Temple, ISth June, 1816.

There is nothing I should like better than the
plan you propose, for spending the autumn in a house
at some little distance from Edinburgh. I am only
afraid that it is a greater expense than you would
like to incur, w^ere it not for your kind attention to my
fancies. Though I shall be under the necessity of re-
turning to the October sessions, yet I shall have a full
interval of six weeks, which I could not pass so happily
any where as with you. I find it difficult to be at Edin-
burgh, and preserve that entire command of my time,
without which one has not half the enjoyment of leisure.

358 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

Before you fix upon the situation, would it not be
well for 3'Ou to consider, whether the sea-side would not
be better for my mother, where she could have the
benefit of bathing ? She used to think it always did her
good, and I am sony to hear she is not very strong at
present. Nothing can be more beautiful than the neigh-
bourhood of Rosslyn, or more to my taste ; but, if my
mother should be advised to bathe this summer, it would
be excellent to combine both plans. I shall probably
be released from the circuit on the 23d August, at
Bristol ; and I may arrange matters so as to set out at
once for the North. I have concealed nothing from you
about my health ; and am only afraid that, by being so
particular, as I was in my last letter, I have made you
more anxious than there is any occasion for. Good
weather and good hours will set me up again com-
pletely.

My home is quite another scene for me with my pre-
sent inmates, who make me very happy indeed. Anne
has Lady Holland's box to-night, to see Miss O'Neill in^
the Jealous Wife ; and I believe the young lady is to be
of the party. William Murray is to dine with us, and to
accompany them, for I must go to the House of Com-
mons. My kindest regards to my mother and sisters.
Ever, my dear Sir,

Most affectionately yours,

Fka. Horxer.

Letter CCLXVm. TO THOMAS THOMSON, ESQ.

My dear Thomson, London, utli June, i8i6.

I went to Lens immediately.^-' He had just been
informed by Adam. My next object was to communi-

* To Mr. Serjeant Lens, to communicate the death of Mr. George Wilson,
at Edinburgh. See Vol. L p. 192. — Ed.

^T. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 359

catc the sad event to poor Attwater, the faithful, affec-
tionate servant of our dear friend. There is somethino-.
in the conviction that he cannot have suffered any pro-
tracted pain. I fear, too, this is a release from sufi'erino-s
of a keener sort, that were awaiting him, had he sur-
vived a little longer, in the accumulated distresses that
are heaped upon his sister's family.

I agree with you, that I have never known any body
in life of the same kind as Mr. Wilson. So circumspect
an understanding, united with so much warmth of heart,
and such refined sensibility: he had all the caution
which age could gain, and retained for every thing that
concerned the happiness of mankind, or the welfare and
reputation of his friends, an ardour like that of youth.
For some years past, he seemed to look upon himself as
already separated from the world; but looking upon
every thing that could be seen to go well in it, with an
affectionate interest and benevolence. All that remains
of him to you and to me, now, is the memory of him ;
and we shall, to the end of our lives, have a gratifica-
tion in thinking of his goodness, and of the kindness he
felt for us.

My dear Thomson, most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCLXIX. TO LORD WEBB SEYMOUR.

My dear Seymour, London, isth June, 1816.

I was much obliged to 3-ou for your kind atten-
tion, in writing to me an account of the melancholy loss
we have suffered of our excellent friend Mr. Wilson. It
was an event I had long anticipated as too likely to
happen any da}^ ) and all that one could wish on such
an occasion has been granted, since he died without suf-

360 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

fering, and without surviving his faculties, which I
dreaded still more. You saw enough of him, to estimate
hio-hly both his worth and his intellectual merit ; but he
w^as one of those, who are well known only to intimate
observers, and whom a friend could not know intimately
without making daily discoveries of virtue and wisdom
and sensibility. Under that calm and cautious exterior,
and behind that modesty which was most apparent,
there lay the utmost warmth of heart and anxiety of
kindness, and an ardour for all good things fresh and
sincere as any of us felt it in youth. And the wonder
of all was, that he had preserved this through London
and through Westminster Hall, and through all the
habits of a lawyer's life. I have seen no such man alto-
gether, and shall see none such any more.

You will not think it odd, that I have not said any
thing of the friendly letter I received from you, Avhile
I was on the last spring circuit. I took it as you meant
it ; as the interposition of your authority as a friend,
rather than opening a controversy with me. I think I
could justify myself on many points, where you have
mistaken me, or been misinformed about me ; then there
is a great allowance to be made, in your judgment of
my conduct, for the considerable difference of opinion
that still exists, as it has always done, between you and
myself upon some fundamental points of politics, both
foreign and domestic. I do not mean to say, that my
views are right, and yours erroneous ; that is a separate
discussion ; but that my opinions being allowed me, my
conduct is to be estimated with reference to them, as
every man will square his line of action for tlie opinions
which he conscientiously believes to be well-founded. I
will not pursue this any farther ; I have read your letter
repeatedly, which was what you intended me to do ; and

2Et. 38.] HOUSE OF COMMONS. oqj

though I hardly confess myself as wrong on any particu-
lar as you thmk me, I feel sure that your advice will,
even more than I may at the time be aware of it, keep
me from going wrong.

My dear Seymour,

Affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Mr. Horner addressed the House of Commons for the
last time on the 25th of June; and it was in the cause
of religious liberty and of Ireland. The wrongs and
mis-government of that country had made a deep im-
pression upon his mind : he felt that the harsh, intolerant,
and ungenerous treatment of so large a portion of her
people left a stain upon the character of England, and
engendered a spirit of discontent, which impaired the
strength, and endangered the safety, of the empire.
Had his life been spared, we may safely affirm that he
would have laboured, with unwearied zeal, to jDromote
every measure that was calculated to advance the pros-
perity, and secure the tranquillity, of Ireland.

Sir John Cox Hippesley having brought up the Report
of a Select Committee, appointed to inquire into the
laws and ordinances of foreign states, regulating the in-
tercourse between their Roman Catholic subjects and
the See of Rome; Mr. Canning rose and said, — "That
having been one of the majority which, on a former
occasion, prevented the purpose of the honourable baro-
net from being carried into execution, he was desirous
of showing the difference which existed between that
period and the present. Then the measure proposed
would have had the effect of impeding the progress of a

VOL. II. 31

362 CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION. [1816

Bill before the House ; and, rather than delay a Bill of
such consequence, he had no hesitation in declining the
information which the honourable baronet had it in his
power to give. But, on the present occasion, the hon-
ourable baronet could not have a warmer supporter than
himself; nor had he the least hesitation in saying farther,
that the information contained in the Report was neces-
sary to the having the question fully understood. Deeply
as they were all interested in the final settlement of the
question, that settlement could only be valuable, in so
far as it was founded on the firm conviction and cordial
assent of all parties. He was anxious that it should
now be finally set at rest, not on the romantic notion
that, with it, every feeling of animosity would, at the
same time, subside ; but because he believed that the
question was one, without the settlement of which no
other evil in Ireland could be radically cured ; it was
not only an evil in itself, but it was made the pretext
for many more, and it aggravated them all. He was
more and more convinced of the necessity of emancipa-
tion ; and that with the conditions which it might be
thought advisable to annex to the boon, the final settle-
ment of the question ought not to be delayed. To this
final settlement the Report of the honourable baronet
could not fail greatly to contribute."

Mr. Horner said, " He could not help congratulating
the Catholics on what he had heard with so great
satisfaction, — the sentiments delivered by the right
honourable gentleman (Mr. Canning) who had lately
acceded to the ministry. He could not help inferring,
from the manner in which, as well as the occasion when,
these sentiments w^ere delivered, that they might look
forward with better hopes and expectations, than they
had ever yet had, of a speedy settlement of the great

J£t. 38.] CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION. 3G3

question of Catholic emancipation. When he coupled
those sentiments, which the right honourable gentleman
had just delivered, with the circumstance of his recent
accession to the administration, he felt convinced, that
the right honourable gentleman would not have ex-
pressed his increased sense of the importance of a final
settlement of the question, unless he had previously
come to a distinct understanding on the subject with
the rest of the administration ; and he felt this convic-
tion the more strongly, when he called to remembrance
the very manly grounds on which the right honourable
gentleman stated, some time ago, that he had declined
acceding to the same administration. He hoped, there-
fore, that the right honourable gentleman had not de-
livered his sentiments on this occasion merely as a mem-
ber of parliament ; that, in the next session, the ques-
tion would not come before the House, as usual, merely
in consequence of petitions from the Catholics ; but that
it would be officially brought in, by those who held the
most prominent place in the councils of the country,
and that they w^ould no longer have to w^itness that
trifling which, year after year, had been dis23layed, of
men filling the highest situations of the government
holding out this as a measure of the most vital import-
ance, — declaring that no measure with regard to Ire-
land was likely to be attended with any good effect if it
was not carried, — that Ireland could not otherwise be
tranquillised, — and yet leaving a measure of such vital
importance to the country, to be brought forward, not
by themselves, but by those who could not have the
same weight with themselves, and whose efforts could
not, therefore, be expected to be attended with the
same success."

APPROACH OF SERIOUS ILLNESS. [1816.

The active part which Mr. Horner took, in so many
of the questions that came before the House of Com-
mons this session, may seem to indicate, and even to
have required, when added to his increased professional
occupations, a vigorous state of health. But this, unhap-
pily, was far from being his real condition. In the two
last letters to his father he speaks of being unwell, and,
as usual, makes light of his complaints ; his friends, how-
ever, had seen for some time, that his health required a
much greater degree of care than he could be induced
to bestow upon it. Symptoms of a pulmonary affection
had now appeared, w^hich gave them so much uneasi-
ness and alarm, that they urged him to submit his case
to the serious consideration of eminent medical advisers,
and to yield implicit obedience to their directions. He
followed this advice; but, alas! it was too late. The
fatal disease could not be arrested, although it appeared
in so indefinite and indistinct a form, as to encourage
hopes of his recovery to the very last. But it will be
seen, in what remains to be read, that the increasing
feebleness of his bodily frame, during the few remaining
months of existence that were allotted to him, was hap-
pily unaccompanied by even the slightest change in the
vigour and activity of his mind : these never failed, but
continued unimpaired to the last day of his life.

Letter CCLXX. TO IHS MOTHER.

My dear Mother, Oxford, isth July, isie.

I have had leisure enough all this week to have
written to you ; but when one is quite idle, there is no

^T. 38.] CORRESPONDENCE. 305

time to be found. I have indeed been thoroughly idle,
but pleasantly so, and quietly too. After all, I did not
execute any of my schemes with Leonard, though that of
coming to this place with him for a week seemed too
good a project to be given up. But I found it hard to
resist invitations, which I received when I gave out that
I was to leave town ; particularly one from Lord Buck-
ingham, who had repeatedly asked me to Stowe, with-
out my ever being able to go ; and particular cir-
cumstances made it difficult for me to decline it this
time.

I went to Woburn on Saturday last, and stayed there
till Thursday : there was nobody in the house but Lord
Grey's family, on their way to the north. This made it
particularly agreeable to me, as I have a great admira-
tion for Lord Grey's character, and feel much satisfac-
tion and pleasure in his society. He passes much of his
time with his daughters, riding every day with three of
them ; I had a pony placed at my disposal, and joined
their party ; the Duke riding with us, and showing us a
great variety of rides, both in the park and in the coun-
try round it. This exercise, and going early to bed,
and following Dr. Warren's directions about regimen, are
altogether, you will admit, a powerful attack made upon
my old enemy the cough ; and I begin to think I have
made some impression upon him.

On Thursday, I went by way of Stony Stratford,
across the country, to Stowe, where I was till this after-
noon. There, too, I had the good fortune to meet only
a small family party. It is a very magnificent place,
worthy of all its reputation; too magnificent perhaps
for so quiet a company as I found there, and more suit-
able for a large assemblage of gaiety and grandeur, and
the bustle that attends them. There is something desert

31*

366 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

in great space and splendour, without crowds to enliven
them. Nothing, I think, would exceed Stowe in a gala.
The grounds are agreeably laid out, though the coun-
try admits of little variety of prospect; a great number
of ornamental buildings, some of which are handsome,
supply in some degree that want of objects and scenery,
which gives siich a sadness to all great parks, which do
not let in views of the villages, and cottages, and foot-
paths of their humbler neighbours. The architecture
of the house is very striking in its general effect, and
gave me at the first moment I saw it from a distance,
something like the impressions, which Versailles, and
Versailles alone in the same degree, makes upon the eye.
The body of the house has a front of 450 feet, and the
of&ces extend so far in wings on each side as to make a
length in all of 900 feet. There are few good pictures
in the house, but some remarkable portraits ; the most
interesting of which is the Chandos Shakspeare. A
greater treasure, is a library of 22,000 printed books for
real use and modern reading ; and a very valuable col-
lection of manuscripts and state papers, which occupy
a room by themselves, handsomely fitted up in the
Gothic style; and which, for that reason, was de-
scribed in the days of " No Popery," as the Catholic
Chapel where the Grenvilles performed their super-
stitions.

I will write in a day or two to my father, or one of
my sisters ; in the mean time give my kind love_to them.
My dear mother.

Most affectionately yours.

Era. Horner.

iEx. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE.

Letteu CCLXXI. to LADY HOLLAND.

My dear Lady Holland, '"'"^^i^TiImr'''

I was unfortunate in not meeting with you in
Yorkshire. I staid a day longer at Sydney Smith's for
the chance of it, and then I thought there was another
chance of fahing in with your march between Ahiwick
and York. It was not till after I had been here a day
or two, that I learned by a letter from Lord Grey you
had remained so late at Howick that I might have seen
you by calling there ; I was impatient, however, to get
to my father's house, and to have done with the tiresome
journey.

I am living at a retired and very beautiful j^lace seven
miles from Edinburgh, where I have only been once, in
the morning, since I came. The weather has been cold
and disagreeable, till within these two days ; after a very
sudden change, it is now deliciously warm and genial.
This has given me a release from coughing; but the
shortness of breath is rather more incommodious than
it was, which is the symptom I least understand, and like
least. I am taking the advice of Drs. Thomson and
Gordon, w^ho do not alarm me much about the nature of
my illness ; but have imposed upon me a great many
cautions against cold and fatigue.

I must expect to spend the greater part of next win-
ter in the character of an invalid. My friends here
have been very kind to me, coming from Edinburgh
very frequently.

Ever yours affectionately,

Era. Horner.

CORRESPONDENCE. [1816,

Letter CCLXXII. TO ^Y. J. ADAM, ESQ.
My dear William, Dryden, 27th September, 1816.

Many thanks for your kind inquiries ; I certainly
do not get worse, and have no symptoms yet that appear
to be more than warnings to take care of myself I
have been consulting Drs. Gregory and Hamilton, and
am to see them again on Sunday, when they will pro-
nounce judgment ; I expect it to be a sentence of im-
prisonment, without hard labour. Gregory said already,
" No vociferation. Sir — even if you are paid for it : "
this is hard enough upon one of my craft. I am quite
perplexed about next sessions ; I would stay away, if I
thought I might do so without future injury ; but then
I have nearly a certainty of not being permitted to
attend at "Wells in January, so that I shall seem to
abandon them entirely; having absented myself, for
another reason, this year already. Tell me your mind.
I mean still to set out for London upon the 5th.

Yours affectionately,

Era. Horner.

Letter CCLXXm. TO LADY HOLLAND.

My dear Lady Holland, Brjden, 27th Sept. i8i6.

I was going to postpone writing to you till after
Sunday, when I am to see Drs. Gregory and Hamilton a
second time, and receive their sentence. But I cannot
so long delay thanking you for the kindness of your late
letters to me. How happy I should be in your house
under your care, in the way you propose ! But I had
before settled to adopt another plan, which I think you
•will approve of One of my sisters has offered to spend

Mt. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 3(59

tlie winter with me in Russell Street, and we shall set
out for London on the 5th, the end of next week ; unless
my two, or as I ought to say, your two doctors, interpose
other advice. I will write again; and must not write
more at present, this being one of the things I am for-
bid to do, on account of the stooping. Once more ac-
cept my thanks for your most delightful letters, and for
the proofs you daily give me of your kind friendship.

Affectionately yours,

Fea. Horner.

Letter CCLXXIV. FROM LORD HOLLAND.
Dear Horner Holland House, 28th Sept. 181G.

Why did you not write ? Vie expected a letter
from you to-day, and hoped to hear good accounts of
your health. Here is John Russell, who used to be our
invalid, quite well and strong, and not a little delighted
with one of our guests, Foscolo — a native of the Greek
Islands ; who, while completing his education in Itcaly,
was overtaken by the great events of 1796 and 1797,
joined the Cisalpine Republic, and forfeited Bonaparte's
favour, by the imcourtly mixture of admonition which
he infused into a speech of congratulation on his election
to the Presidency of the Italian republic in 1802. He
has since that time served in the army, been imprisoned,
persecuted, and suspected, till, on the battle of Leipsig,
he espoused the falling fortunes of Bonaparte with zeal,
and has now refused to take oaths to the Austrian gov-
ernment, and come to settle here for twelve years, dur-
ing which he hopes to be able to compose something
that may give him an existence with posterity. His
learning and vivacity are wonderful, and he seems to
have great elevation of mind, and to be totally exempt

370 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

from aifectation, though not perhaps equally so from
enthusiasm, violence, and resentment. Chateaubriand's
pamphlet, which I have not, and will not read, has
excited both him and Allen to no small degree, and I
should hope that, between them, they may devise some
method of exposing it and its author.

As my lady has written to you lately, I conclude you
have heard that they have had the meanness to abridge
some of the few comforts which they had left within the
reach of Bonaparte and even thrown new obstacles in
the way of his acquiring intelligence of what is passing,
and securing to himself the satisfaction of communicat-
ing to the world and posterity his views and knowledge
of what has passed. We must at least take care that
some of the base lies of 1815 shall not receive the same
credit with posterity, as they have done in our time.

We hear no more of dissolution. The King was seri-
ously ill some few days ago, which would force one.
There is a report of bad news from North America.

I think sinecures will not be able to stand the clamour.
Apropos to that subject, — I and your friends ought to
take shame to ourselves for not stating, when first the
subject was started, the real state of the case with respect
to your commissionership. It was natural to hold such
vulgar calumny cheap, but I believe the people are in a
temper where they listen to such lies with some plea-
sure, and even draw inferences as to public measures of
men upon them, more than they have done for years.
Yours, dear Horner, sincerely,

Vassall Holland.

^T. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. ^*jl

Letter CCLXXV. TO LADY HOLLAND.
My dear Lady Holland, Dryden, soth Sept. 18I6.

Dr. Gregory, with the concurrence of the other
physicians, is of opinion that all is sound yet, no harm
done, but that care and precaution next winter are in-
dispensably necessary ; not only against cold and fatigue,
but every degree of exertion. They have positively in-
terdicted me from my profession during the winter, and
have strongly advised me to pass the cold months of
that season and the spring in a southern climate. I
put in a word for two warm rooms at home, in which I
would promise to confine myself; but they urged the
importance of getting to a climate where I might still
have open air and regular exercise. That consideration,
and a conviction that after this opinion has been de-
livered by them, my family would feel constant anxiety
if I did not follow it, have determined me to go abroad.
My brother has offered to go with me, wherever it is ;
and we shall set out for London on Saturday, where I
must be for two or three days, in order to make some
necessary arrangements.

I think I shall go at once to Naples, and remain in
Italy till the spring is over, and summer fairly begun.
But I want much instruction and advice, and for all this
you must let me come to you. Will you let my brother
and me pass two or three days at Holland House ? It is
a great journey to undertake ; but I have more courage
for that, than for the sufferings of a sea voyage.
Ever affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

372 CORRESPONDENCE. [181G.

Letter CCLXXVI. FROM LADY HOLLAND.

IloUand House, 1st Oct. 181G.

I am glad imj doctors send you from the keen air
of your native mountains ; it must be insufferable, but
they will not mend the matter by sending you into
London. I accordingly trust to your docility, and your
sister's good-nature, in expecting you to drive from
Barnet straight here, where you will occupy three south
rooms, regulated as Allen shall direct, and have your
hours, and company, and occupations entirely at your
own disposal. Such books and papers as you may re-
Cjuire can easily be brought from your own house. Re-
member your own house is in the heart of Loudon, your
sitting and bed room exposed to the east; that, with
your facility to all who ever pretend from acquaintance
to friendship, you cannot be denied at your door ; that
the calm, which is so necessary to you, will be perj^etu-
all}' broken in upon. These three rooms o^^en into each
other, and are perfectly warm ; your servant will sleep
close to you, and your sister will have a room adjoining
to this apartment. Pray spare me all the commonplace
compliments of giving trouble, and taking up too many
rooms. What you know I feel towards you ought to
exempt me from any such trash. From henceforward,
till June, when I look forward to a thorough amend-
ment, you must lay your account to have me, heart,
soul, and time, entirely devoted to your welfare and
comfort ; and I am satisfied in this, because Allen says
it is right. I am afraid your sister may think it a bad
exchange, from living solely with you, to come amongst
strangers ; but tell her I already feel warmth towards
her for her affectionate intention of nursing you, and

^T. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 3*5-3

that I will try and make her residence as little irksome
as possible. Do, my dear friend, yield to my entreaties.
As to abroad, I look upon it as fatal to an invalid, — the
coldness of the inns, the bad and uncertain accommoda-
tion, the smoky chimneys, the unceasing squabbles,
which, from the hatred against the English, are arrived
to such a pitch as to be real grievances, the total want
of all comforts of every kind, will have, I trust, put it
out of the question. Nothing but a sea voyage to Cadiz,
or Valencia, or Majorca, can be thought of with refer-
ence to any real benefit. The travelling in your case
would, I am persuaded, produce the mischief ; for, thank
Heaven, all that is necessary at present is to prevent
any forming, and exposure to cold would be the inevi-
table forerunner of disease.

Good bye — take care of yourself; do not write, and
employ a friendly hand to say how you are going on.
As you set off on Saturday, Allen will write to-morrow,
and direct his letter' to Dunbar. I shall write to you
to Ferrybridge, perhaps Durham, if any thing occurs ;
only let your sister be good enough, wherever you sleep,
to write a few lines to say how you bear the journey.
Lord Auckland left us just now; he promised a letter to
you of chit-chat.

Yours faithfully,

E. Y. H.

Letter CCLXXVII. FROM LORD HOLLAND.
Dear Horner Holland House, 1st Oct. 181G.

I think on every account that you and your

sister had much better come here in the first instance, as

it would be very foolish to encounter the bad air of

London without necessity. Lady Holland is very anx-

voL. n. ■ 32

374 CORRESPONDENCE. [181G.

ious you should do so, and I shall leave to her the task
of persuading you and Miss Horner to acquiesce.

Has she told you about Foscolo, our late inmate here ?
He is without exception the liveliest and cleverest man
I know, and I should think full of good qualities as well
as talent. In genius and vivacity like Erskine ; but
Erskine with fixed opinions, great and various knowl-
edge, and affections as warm as his imagination. We
are all here cngoues with him.

You will see I was taken in to preside at a Drury
Lane meeting. No dividend — but a divided directory.
It is a bad concern — all except Kean's acting. I saw
him in Othello yesterday ; by far the finest acting I ever
witnessed on any stage. He outdid himself, and I am
confident Garrick himself never acted a fine part in
Shakspeare better. I am sadly afraid your countrymen
at Edinburgh will form too cold an audience for such a
genius, as I am more than ever persuaded that little
man is.

Yours ever,

V. Holland.

Letter CCLXXVIH. TO LADY HOLLAND.

Dryden, 4tli Oct. 1816.

I will not offer you a syllable of thanks, my dear
Lady Holland, either on my own part, or my sister's, for
your letter to-day and Lord Holland's. Nothing I could
say would express what I feel. You have already
learned my change of j^lans ; I keep, however, to my
day, and set out with my brother to-morrow. We will
drive, as you have bid me, from Barnet to Holland
House; and in all probability shall arrive there on
Thursday next. When there, I shall profit by your best

iEx. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 375

advice about my travels. All the four physicians here
urged me to go abroad; Gregory and Thomson were
the most urgent ; the former would not hear of two
warm rooms and confinement; and since I intimated to
Thomson that I was ready to adopt their advice, he has
repeatedly said he is convinced it is the safest and best
course for me. The reason that has weio-hed most with
me is, the opportunity of getting a little exercise most
days in a southern climate, or at least with a short inter-
val of confinement ; whereas, if I remain in England, I
must lay my account with an imprisonment of several
months. The effects of this upon my constitution I have
formerly experienced, and am not encouraged to repeat
the trial. Besides sinking and wearing out the spirits,
it is very hurtful to the whole machinery of the stomach ;
and a derangement of that organ, or some part of the
apparatus belonging to it, if not the original cause of
my ailments, forms a principal part of them. I do not
mean, however, to be determined by my own reasonings
on the point, still less by any secret wishes to turn this
misfortune of mine (for it is a very serious one to be
interrupted in my profession) to the most advantage,
but shall be infinitely more swayed by your opinion and
advice. That of the physicians must in the end decide
the matter. I have told you what they say here ;
Thomson said he would write once more to Allen ; and
when I get to town, I will consult Warren again. If I
go abroad, the south of Italy (that is Naples, or its
neighbourhood) seems from all I can hear to be the most
advisable. If I was to go to Spain, my poor mother
would dream of nothing but Fernan Nunez' application
to Castlereagh/^' which somebody unluckily told her of;

* In a discussion on the 1st of ISIarcli, 1815, respecting the conduct of the
British authorities at Gibraltar, in delivering up to the iSpauish government
some Spaniards who, on account of political offences, had sought refuge there,

376 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

and wherever I am, a little of English society in the
morning must be part of mj medicine. Had Anthony
Maitland been going out immediately to the Mediterra-
nean, I would not have declined the offer which Lord
Lauderdale most kindly said he Avould have made, of
taking both me and my brother ; in so comfortable a
way, I would have ventured on the experiment of a
voyage, though hitherto my sickness has always lasted
the whole time I was upon the water. I .am in hopes,
that by warm clothing and moderate journeys, I may
perform the land journey without fatigue or exposure to
cold.

All this while, I have never said a word about your
indisposition. I trust the threatening proved a false
alarm, and that I shall find you on Thursday quite well
again.

3Iorpeili, Sundai/ Evening. I have had two days of
travelling, and am nothing the worse for it ; coming very
leisurely, and taking every precaution against cold. The
weather has been delightfully mild. I am becoming
quite expert in the selfishness and egotism of an invalid.

Your accounts of Foscolo are so interesting, that I am
quite impatient to see him. Thank Lord Holland for
his most kind letters.

God bless you, my dear Lady Holland.

Affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Mr. Horner spoke of the King, Ferdinand, in very strong terms of reproba-
tion, lie described him as being hated and despised throughout the Spanish
nation ; and expressed a hope that the people of Spain might be excited to
reassert their rights, and depose Ferdinand. The Spanish Ambassador
appHed to the government, (much to the amusement, it is said, of the Foreign
Secretary,) to have the member punished for speaking of his Catholic Majesty
in such terms. — Ed.

^T. 39.J CORRESPONDENCE. 377

Lktter CCLXXIX. from SIR SAMUEL ROMILLY.

Knill Court, 6th Oct. 18 IG.

Many thanks to you, my dear Horner, for the trou-
ble you have taken respecting the portrait. You have a
good deal disappointed me by not saying any thing
about yourself. I was in hopes, though your own health
is a subject which does not, I believe, occupy much of
your thoughts, that I should have heard from you that
you had quite got rid of the cough with wdiich you left
town, and that you had no remains of that languor
which I think I lately observed in you. I have often
longed to tell you, and I avail myself of this opportu-
nity of doing it, that I do not think you nearly as care-
ful of yourself as you ought to be. If you took little
account of your health for 3^our own sake, and for that
of your friends, yet 3^our regard for the public good
should induce you to pay the utmost attention to it.
You will not, I am sure, suspect me of flattery, though
your modesty may question the soundness of my judg-
ment, but it is my most sincere opinion, that there is no
public man whose life it is of such importance to the
country should be preserved as yours. Lady Romilly
desires to be most kindly remembered to you.
Ever, my dear Horner,

Most sincerely yours,

Samuel Romilly.

Letter CCLXXX. TO IIIS FATHER.
My dear Sir C^reat Russell Street, 11th Oct. 181C.

We arrived to-day soon after twelve, and I have
already seen Dr. Warren. He wishes me to see Dr.

32*

378 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

Baillie, and to state my case without communicating
either what he, Dr. W., has said to me formerly, or what
I understood from my physicians at Edinburgh, in order
that he may form his own opinion, and afterwards confer
with Dr. Warren. I have accordingly written to Dr.
Baillie, requesting him to name a time when I may
call upon him.

Dr. Warren said to me there is a nicety in the case ;
an equivalent expression, I suppose, to one Dr. Thomson
used, that there was an anomaly in it. You shall hear
exactly what they tell me. I found your kind letter,
besides others from all the family. We are much com-
forted by knowing that they are all well. My kind love
to them.

My dear Sir,

Most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

I ought to tell you that Dr. W. thought me looking
better than when I left town.

Letter CCLXXXI. TO HENRY HALLAM, ESQ.

My dear Hallam, Holland House, utii Oct. 18I6.

I have heard of your kind inquiries and your
friendly anxiety ; if I were not under orders to be
very taciturn, and almost constantly in a state of re-
pose, I should have made a point of seeing you ; but
I fear I shall not have that pleasure before I go
abroad.

I have made up my mind to a system of exclusive
attention to my health, for some time. From all I
hear, Pisa, or some one of the small towns in that part

^T. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 379

of Tuscany, will be the best residence for me during the
three or four months of winter ; if my health improves,
I shall be tempted to go farther south about the end
of March, for I do not mean to come back till the east
winds have ceased to blow here. It will be, as you
know, a great act of kindness to write to me as often as
you have leisure. I shall be anxious and nervous about
public matters at home, till this lowering winter is over,
and most of all about the state of the public mind,
which I look upon as very diseased at present, and
much inclined to give ear to quack doctors, and to
try the experiment of violent prescriptions. As the
people never dies, we shall get through the actual
malady, and become prosperous again ; but I dread
what sacrifices we may be tempted to make of essential
principles of policy, and especially of those which guard
and consecrate property.

Upon the subject of the public debts, I look npon the
whole body of. country gentlemen to be altogether un-
principled; as eager and sharpset for rapine, as the
Jacobins ever w^ere for their acres. Then you have
a very feeble ministry ; and, between their financial
difficulties on the one hand, and the clamours of the
idle-headed reformers on the other, I fear they will be
base enough to make compromises that will produce
no real ease to the state, but which wall leave the last-
ing mischief of bad example and violated principle.
Never were virtue and good sense on the part of the
House of Commons more fervently to be prayed for.
If, under such a conjuncture as the present, they shall
compel the reduction of the army, and at the same
time strengthen the government with an efficient sys-
tem of taxation, abstaining from all predatory inroads
upon property of any description, they will make our

380 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

liberties immortfil ; and if they do not do all this, these
liberties have not much longer to survive.
Give my very kind regards to Mrs. Hallam,

And believe me most truuly yors,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCLXXXII. TO HIS FATHER.
My dear Sir Holland House, 14th Oct. 1816.

As I saw Leonard write a long letter to my
mother this morning, I dare say he has said every
thing respecting Dr. Baillie's visit yesterday that I could
report. Allen is to write fully to Dr. Thomson, and
will desire him to show you the letter, that you may
know w^ith precision and exactness the view which Dr.
B. takes of my disorder.

A good deal of the conversation passed not in my
presence ; but from what he said to myself, coupled
with what I have heard of the rest, I think there is fair
reason to conclude, first, that the removal of this disorder
may be effected by care and precaution, if I get no acces-
sion of accidental cold ; and, secondly, that the scheme
of going abroad affords the most favourable means of
carrying that system of precaution into effect. I am to
see Dr. Warren again, after he has had a conversation
with Dr. Baillie, and I shall endeavour to have another
consultation with the latter also ; who has behaved very
kindly to me in coming out of town to see me, contrary
to his general rule.

He said to Allen, that he had never known an in-
stance of a consumptive disease of the lungs without
, fever ; and also, that he had never known such a case
occur without loss of flesh. My total freedom from
fever, and my recovery of flesh while I was in Scot-

iET. 39.] CORRESrONDENCE. 381

land, of which there is no doubt, he considers accord-
ingly as affording great encouragement to the most
favourable expectations.

Leonard is making every preparation for our travels ;
for though not formally decided upon by the doctors
yet, I look upon it as next to decided that we shall
go. And by all accounts Pisa, or some one of the towns
in that part of Tuscany, such as Massa, will be our best
residence for the winter. My kindest love to my
mother and all my sisters and nieces.

Most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCLXXXIII. FROM THE REV. SYDNEY SMITH.

My dear and excellent Friend, Howiek, loth Oct. isic.
I have seldom received any piece of intelligence
with more sorrow than that of your intended journey
to the Continent, and of the state of your health which
makes it necessary.

No man ever left his country more honoured and
more beloved by all good people, or more followed by
their earnest wishes for his safety.

If you wish to make Mrs. Sydney and me happy, you
will tell us of your welfare. We shall both bless the
day wdien we see you again in your ancient health.

God grant it may soon come.

S. Smith.

Letter CCLXXXIV. TO IMRS. L. HORNER.
Mv dear Anne Calais, 22cl Oct. half past 3.

I am safely deposited in the inn on this side of
the water ; our passage was four hours and a half, with

382 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

a fine wind at first, which fell calm for some time, but
rose again, so that we made the harbour without losing
our tide. Leonard was for some time very sick, but was
quite fresh and well before we quitted the ship. He
remained on deck. I had myself laid in a hirth at once,
(I w^onder they do not call it a death rather,) and re-
signed myself to my fate in a recumbent posture ; but
all my wretchedness is over now, so I will not keep up
the recollection of it. We shall not start till to-morrow
morning, and, as we do not mean to attempt to travel
more than fifty English miles a day, it will be Saturday
forenoon before we arrive in Paris ; where I have apart-
ments already secured to me in the Place Vendome, and
orders gone before me to have fires lighted ; by the po-
liteness of a French gentleman whom I met with at
Lord Holland's, whose lodgings these are. There is
no end to the kindness of every body ; but Leonard's
is greater than all. He is, I think, quite well ; indeed,
remarkably so, not a tinge of yellow, of the breadth
of a hair, in any part of his face. He will probably
add something in the other page ; he is at present
busy at the quay. We shall not hear of you till we
reach Paris ; but there I trust w^e shall have good
and full accounts. My tenderest remembrances to
dearest Mary : I hope the other two children will be
like her, I cannot wish them to be better. God bless
you.

Affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Mt. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 353

Letter CCLXXXV. LORD HOLLAND TO MR. HORNER'S

FATHER.

Dear Sir Holland House, 24th Oct. 1816.

Your letters shall be duly forwarded to your son.
All his friends here are sensible of the advantage of his
kind and affectionate brother Leonard being with him,
and cannot but admire the disinterestedness of Mrs. L.
Horner in promoting such an arrangement.

We had the satisfaction of finding the opinions of the
London physicians less unflxvourable than those of Edin-
burgh had been represented to us ; and though I am not
sanguine enough to think there is no cause for uneasi-
ness, I certainly parted with him with a better opinion
of his prospects than I entertained from the reports I
had heard. His countenance was better, and both he
and his brother maintain that he has gained flesh, which,
if w^ell ascertained, is a very consolatory symptom in-
deed, and one that outweighs very many of a less
favourable description. No thanks are due to us from
him or his friends. I am quite sure that nothing would
make Lady Holland or myself happier than the power
in any degree of promoting the recovery or contributing
to the comfort of one of the best friends and best men
I ever knew. You may depend upon it, my dear Sir,
that there is no man in England who has more sincere
friends, as there is certainly none who deserve them
more ; and there is none who has greater pride in reck-
oning himself one, than your

Obhged humble servant,

Vassall Holland.

384 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

Letter CCLXXXYI. TO LADY HOLLAND.

My dear Lady Holland, P^^^' 20th Oct. 18I6.

Several little things to be done have kept us one
day longer in Paris than we meant ; but I think we shall
certainly be off to-morrow, early enough to reach
Nemours. I have just received your packet of last
Thursday ; it is a vast comfort to both of us to get our
letters so surely and frequently, and I am particularly
pleased on my brother's account that his separation from
Mrs. Horner and his children should be relieved as much
as possible from any continued anxiety. I find I must
trouble Allen with a medical epistle, so I shall not bur-
den you with any more egotism of that sort to-day.

Ward * lives within three doors of us, and has been
here repeatedly ; very pleasant and entertaining ; he sat
by my bedside yesterday, that is my sofa, while Leonard
went to see Talma in Hamlet. His master, he says, is
to remain some time longer here ; a fortnight or more :
and he seems to suspect, that Canning, besides re-con-
ducting his lady home, has some political reason for
being here at this time ; but he evidently makes no con-
fidences of that sort with Ward. Canning is of opinion,
that the Ultras are about to commit a great fault, in
declaring themselves for a free press ; and he tells them
so : the spirit of a party question carries them for the
moment so far out of their own element, that an old
emigrant magistrate, whom I knew in London, a Presi-
deiit a moHier of one of the Parliaments, and who, in all
his opinions, is for every thing of the old regime, main-
tains that nothing will save France but the liberty of

* The Hon. J. W, T\' ard, the late Earl Dudley.

JEt. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 335

the press. This is not founded, that I can hear, upon
any speculation that the country might be roused by the
press to any declaration in favour of their views; but
was suggested first by the proceedings against Chateau-
briand's pamphlet, and is kept up by feeling that they
have here a change, and a general question to debate,
in which they will have the general feeling of the nation
with them against the ministers. But besides this, and
accusations of midue and unconstitutional influence in
the elections, with which they are to open their cam-
paign, they talk of other popular questions, such as
abolishing the qualification of age for the chamber of
deputies, enlarging the number of that assembly, and
giving it the initiative. I am afraid the Ultras have
more of the discipline, as well as zeal of a party, than
any of their rivals.

I told 3^ou of Madame de Souza's kindness to me, in
preparing for my arrival, and coming to see me immedi-
ately ; she has paid me a visit every day, and while she
had the goodness to amuse me by conversing in my
hearing, she enforced your instructions in prohibiting
me from taking a part. There is something very pleas-
ing in her affection for her son/^' and her anxiety on his
account. Pray take some opportunity of saying to her
soon how gratefully I feel her unexampled kindness to
a stranger. We shall write from the road in a day or
two.

Yours ever most affectionately,

Era. Horner.

* General de Flahault.
VOL. II. 33

386 CORRESPONDENCE. [181G.

Letter CCLXXXVII. TO MRS. DUGALD STEWART.

My dear Mrs. Stewart, ^yons, cth Nov. isie.

I know you will be glad to hear that I have got
over so much of my long journey, without suffering
from it in the least ; either by fatigue, or by fresh colds,
from which I have been hitherto wholly exempted. I
am therefore altogether as well as when I left London,
and by that time my general health w^as improved, in
many respects, from the condition it was in when I went
into Scotland. The pulmonary symptoms, whatever be
their real nature, remain much the same ; but of course
I was not led to expect any rapid amendment in that
particular, or before I am quietly fixed in some sheltered
sunny spot. We have had delightful weather for cross-
ing France; ever since Sunday the 27th, mild air, and a
bright sky. They call it the summer of St. Martin,
which I do not remember to have heard of in our island ;
I suppose because we want the season, for we have the
Saint. The superstition of the thing is, that it lasts till
the 11th of this month ; and as in all these matters the
day named is inclusive always, it is the very day we
shall have for crossing Mont Cenis, for passing the snowy
ridge which bounds that land of the sun, where we shall
know ourselves to be independent of all your frosts and
fogs, in which you, on the wrong side of the mountains,
lose half your lives and half your genius. That day's
work seems the most formidable part of our undertak-
ing ; but having done it before, I know it is only the
business of five or six hours, and we have a carriage
which is perfectly closed against cold air. "We are not
sure yet where we shall fix ; for nothing can be more
contradictory than the reports we have received, upon

Mt. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 387

apparently good authority, respecting every place we
have thought of. It is now reduced to a choice between
Pisa and Rome ; and in our present state of information
the balance is in favour of the latter ; independently of
all little by-arguments for it, such as the probable resi-
dence of Mr. Playfair and the Lansdownes there for part
of the winter.

I saw Ward at Paris, where he talks of remaining
during the winter; and I could not help envying him
the opportunity of seeing so near at hand the pro-
ceedings of a most critical era in the history of French
liberty. Not that we should probably take the same
sort of interest in the same things. When I talk of
the moment as critical for French freedom, it is not
that I expect any sudden turn of affairs, or that I
have heard of any thing like a party politically formed
in flxvour of liberal institutions; quite the reverse.
The few friends of rational liberty that are to be heard
of seem broken-hearted, and they are systematically
excluded from the public assemblies. But I cannot be-
lieve that a deliberative assembly, with a party in oppo-
sition to the existing administration, can regularly meet
and debate in the present circumstances of this country,
without gaining some ground for the action of public
opinion ; however ill the assembly may be constituted,
and however miserable the views and intrigues of the
contending factions that compose it. The accidental
jostling of their wretched interests has produced this
whimsical and fortunate combination, that the Ultra-
royalists are to attack the ministers for breaches of the
law in the late elections, and to press upon them the
urgency of more freedom for the press, and of a better
constitution for the chamber of deputies. Is it not rea-
sonable to conclude that these things are considered as

388 CORRESrONDENCE. [1816.

deeply seated in the wishes of the nation at large, when
such a party as the Ultras force themselves into topics
so revolting to their real sentiments, in order to play
the game of popularity against their antagonists ? The
nation at large seems quite idle and calm upon all
those political discussions ; but there is a preponderat-
ing weight of settled opinions and habits ; and, what is
as good, of proprietary interests, all leaning one way. I
am inclined to think that it is as much at this day, as it
was in 1789, a question between the whole people on
one side, and a handful of nobles and priests on the
other ; with this difference, that the contest is not with
the nation wild and zealous and full of ardour for im-
mediate action in politics, but with the nation in full
possession of equal rights sanctioned by law, and con-
scious of a real enjoyment in the possession of that civil
equality. No counter-revolution can destroy this ; how-
ever the presence of foreign forces may retard the acqui-
sition by the people of a direct share in the political ad-
ministration of their affairs. It is impossible to see and
hear of the present condition of the French people in
detail, without a conviction that the solid benefits sought
by the Revolution for them are permanently secured
and already substantially enjoyed.

I hope you will write to me ; send your letters to
Charlotte Square. When we are settled, I will write
again, and I will try to keep out of dissertations ; but in
going through such a country, one's heart gets full ; and
there are so few but yourself to whom I can vent my
sanguine illusions.

My kindest regards at Kinneil.

Ever afiectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

-^T. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE,

Letter CCLXXXVIII. MR. L. HORNER TO LADY HOLLAND.

Dear Lady Holland, Susa, nth Nov. isic.

As I find the courier for Lyons passes through
Susa to-morrow morning, I will not lose the opportunity
of giving yon the earliest information of our having
this day got over Mont Cenis safely and well. We left
Lans le bourg at half past nine, were on the summit in
three hours, at Molaret at half past two, and at this place
a quarter before four. The day was clear and beautiful.
Yesterday there was a fall of snow and rain, and to-
night there is a very high wind, so that we have been
exceedingly fortunate in passing during a favourable
moment.

We meant to have slept at Lans le bourg last night,
but got no farther than Modane for want of horses, from
which place we started at six, not to lose a day. The
thermometer at that time was 30°, at Lans le' bourg at
half past nine 31°, at Molaret at three o'clock 38° ; but
by keeping a candle burning in the carriage all day,
according to Mrs. Abercrombie's direction, and with the
vessel of boiling water, the air of the carriage was not
under 60° the whole day. My brother has not coughed
at all to-day, and he is now (8 o'clock) fast asleep in
bed, I think I may safely say in no degree injured by
the journey, beyond the fatigue which a journey so long
continued, and with so little enjoyment, might be ex-
pected to create.

I am, dear Lady Holland,

Very faithfidly yours,

Leonard Horner.

o •

390 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

MR. HORNER TO LADY HOLLAND.

(On the same paper.)

I confirm all this; after a night's rest, from
which I have awaked without any symptom whatever
of having caught cold. The journey from Lyons has
been fatiguing, particularly in the long La Maurienne,
where his Sardinian Majesty's postes royales are but
very poorly provided. The Mont Cenis is nothing of
an exertion, the road is so admirable ; our ascent took
exactly three hours, with snow upon the road all the
way, but not more than ankle-deep ; the descent to this
place, which is near three thousand feet lower than
Lans le bourg, on the other side, was a pleasant trot of
two hours and a half, without ever using the drag, or
thinking of it.

Most affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Lettek CCLXXXIX. TO MRS. SYDNEY SMITH.
Dear Mrs. Sydney, Turin, isth Nov. 18I6.

For the same reason that I wrote to you from
Calais, I send you these few lines, to give you the earli-
est intelligence of my farther progress. We are fairly
across the Alps, and I have neither caught any fresh
cold in the course of this long journey, nor suffered
any increase of my unfavourable symptoms, from the
irritation and irksomeness of travelling as an invalid
such a length of way. You see how literally I have
understood all your kind expressions, when I send you
a letter from such a distance merely to give a word
about myself. Had there been any thing new to learn

^T. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 39I

about the places I have passed through, I could not
have learned it ; for I step from my carriage to my
bed, without looking about me. I am quite well enough,
both in the carriage and in my little bed or crib, to
read a good deal, and to occupy myself with much plea-
sant reflection on the kind friends in England who have
made my past life so agreeable, and with dreams of pro-
bably returning to that life and my friends, with as
much health to enjoy them as before. I shall have
some virtue to practise in order to deny myself the gra-
tification of as much English society in Italy as I might
find ; for part of the regimen prescribed to me, is a de-
gree of silence worthy of a disciple of Pythagoras.

Do write, and make your letter very detailed and
particular about every person and thing at Thornton :
yoii do not know what a luxury it is abroad to receive
English gossip respecting those we love, and the relish
of this, which I knew before, is prodigiously increased
by the restraint and imprisonment of my present condi-
tion.

We are not yet arrived at a warm climate. This is a
bright day, with a clear keen air — the thermometer at
40° ; I dare say it is not lower at Thornton.

With kindest regards to Sydney,

Very truly yours.

Era. Horner.

Letter CCXC. TO LADY HOLLAND.

My dear Lady Holland, Turin, isth Nov. 18I6.

Though we had the precaution to write to you

from Susa, as soon as we were fairly over Mont Cenis, I

question if that letter will reach you sooner than this ;

for in all probability the passage of the mountain is at

392 COERESPONDENCE. [1816.

present stopped. We had not been two hours in our
inn at Susa, when, a httle after sunset, a violent wind
rose all at once, which blew a hurricane ; and they told
tis it must be a ionrmcnie upon Mont Cenis, and that we
were fortunate in having passed. Next morning, be-
tween seven and eight, just after I had despatched my
letter to you, there began a thick shower of snow, as
serious as I have seen it at Edinburgh on Christmas-day ;
and this accompanied us all the way down the valley
for more than twenty-five miles ; the snow lay near a
foot deep on the ground. Before we got to Rivoli,
which is the exit of the valley, w^e found it lying thinner
and thinner, and the light to the eastward under the
clouds brightening, till we emerged at once, at the head
of the plain of Lombardy, to a clear sky and green
fields. AVe have found it pretty cold here, however ; a
keen air, with the thermometer as low as forty degrees,
which w^e should be ready to complain of in London on
this day of November, ay, or at Edinburgh. I have
nothing to say about my health different from the last
account, and I rejoice for your sake, and my own, that
we may pass by that subject for once.

1 think we have told you that we shall not decide
upon our winter quarters till we get to Bologna ; where
we shall halt a day or two. I have heard something to-
day, wdiich is in favour of Pisa again ; from M. Grassi, a
gentleman to whom Foscolo gave us a letter. Pray tell
him that we are pleased with his friend, and that we are
obliged to him for taking much trouble to give us infor-
mation. He has himself been obliged to reside on the
other side of the Apennines for health ; and though he
prefers wintering in Naples, as a place where it is impos-
sible to die, he gives Pisa the preference over Rome.
Pisa, he says, has occasional cold winds in the winter ;

JEt. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 393

but not above three or four times, for three or four
hours at a time. Rome has no cold winds; but a
humidity during the rains, which penetrates the skin.
If that j^is a true account of the matter, that sort
of wet must be the worst sort of cold. He says one
must leave Pisa by the middle of March, the spring
there, as all over Tuscany, being variable in the
extreme.

I have been reading Sismondi's Republics, by way of
preparing myself in the geography and history of Italy.
After going through about five volumes, I am forced to
say he seems to me a very poor writer, and greatly
below the name he has got : his sentiments and princi-
ples are in general correct, and all lean the right way ;
but there is a want of mind in the book, and a j^overty
of composition that, in spite of his subject, make the
reading of it fatiguing. I have accordingly made a
jump from him to Machiavel, and shall not be soon
tempted again to break one of my oldest rules about
reading history — to keep to the original, and, where
they are to be had, the contemporary authorities.

Being arrived in the capital of a great state, I sent
round to the booksellers' shops for new publications;
but the universal answer was, there were none. I sent
for a bookseller, from what they call the best shop, and
asked him if there were no pamphlets, no dissertations
upon their trade, or their manufactures, or their agricul-
ture, or their new laws, or their old laws revived ; he
crossed himself, and said it was forbidden, they had none
of these things, there had not been a new publication
in Turin he did not know the time. Yet this is the
country of Alfieri and La Grange.

It is now quite the latest moment; and the courier
having arrived about an hour ago, we have this moment

394 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

received the delightful packet of letters so carefully put
up by you. I have only had time to run my eye over
them, to see if there was any thing to answer immedi-
ately : much I see to amuse me this morning, and much
for our consideration about Pisa, to which you see I am
already more than half inclined again. It is distressing
to hear how much Lord Holland is suffering. We shall
stay another day at this place, and perhaps I may write
again. The courier was stopped on Mont Cenis by the
snow.

Ever, my dear Lady Holland,

Most affectionately yours,

Era. Horner.

Letter CCXCI. TO HIS MOTHER.

My dear Mother, Genoa, isth Nov. isie.

My last letter was to my father from Turin on
the 14th ; when I told him that we had that day, after
full consideration, made up our minds to go to Pisa, at
least in the first instance, and to make it our winter
quarters, unless we shall find it colder than we have
reason to expect. We took three days to come here,
though we might have made the journey in two, had
we been more accurately informed as to the time
required, and as to the inns where we could sleep. We
stopped at Asti, and the following night at Novi. The
road all the way from Turin to this last place, that is, to
the foot of the Apennines, for it lies immediately under
them, is quite level ; and, in the present dry season, as
smooth a gravel road as was ever seen, and the posting
upon it excellent. Asti is one of the oldest towns in
Italy, and looks more like former ages than the present.
Their greatest poet of modern day, Alfieri, was a gran-

^T. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 395

dee of this town, and had a palace belonging to his
family, which his sister is at present living in. As Leon-
ard went to see it, you will have some description of it
in the journal he sends to Anne. Between Asti and
Novi, we travelled over some very famous ground in the
military history of modern Italy ; first, the fortress of
Alessandria, which was constructed in the middle ages,
by the free cities of Lombardy, when they were strug-
gling for their independence, and they chose the situa-
tion w^ith so correct a judgment that it opposed an
effectual bulwark against the last invasion of the Empe-
ror Barbarossa, and forced from him the recognition of
their liberties ; since that period, it has been always an
important place in the wars of Italy ; and Bonaparte,
when he demolished all the other fortresses, preserved
this and Mantua, as the two bulwarks of his empire on
that side. After Alessandria, we passed over the plain
of Marengo, where he gained the most celebrated of his
victories ; and in the neighbourhood of Novi, where we
stopped for the night, Suwarrow gained his great battle
against the French, in which their general Joubert was
killed. The road from Novi here is over the Apennines,
by a bad paved road, which is fatiguing, though the
whole height is not very great. We had a fine bright
day, and from the eminence, called the Bochetta, (or lit-
tle mouth, from the narrow aperture by which the road
passes from the one side to the other,) we had a noble
view of the Mediterranean, smooth and bright as a look-
ing-glass, beyond the brown mountains lying below us.
It is indeed a very striking prospect ; but I shall not
attempt to describe it more particularly, or to give you
any notion of the grandeur of the first sight of this
town.

I have for the last four days felt myself remarkably

396 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

well and alert, and quite free from cougliing, though we
have had a good deal of cold. I do not say that my
breathing is easier, but my general feeling of health has
been better, and I have not put the breathing to any
severe trial ; for as the staircases here are remarkably
high, I had recourse to a sedan chair, in which I was
carried wp to my apartment. I have had the pleasure
to find all the Minto family here, who have been good
enough to waive all ceremony and visit me in my inn.

We shall probably leave this place for Leghorn to-
morrow ; for I find that by far the easiest and best way
of transporting ourselves to Pisa, is to take that coasting
voyage, which we shall probably perform within twenty-
four hours. At Leorhorn we shall not be much more
than a dozen miles from Pisa ; so that in all probability,
we shall keep to the time I mentioned, and arrive at our
final destination in the course of Thursday. You shall
have a letter by the first post that leaves Leghorn after
our landing ; but as we shall then be a good many miles
more to the south, you must not be uneasy if there
should be some intervals between your getting the pre-
sent letter and the next. God bless you, my dear
mother.

Most affectionately yours,

Era. Horner.

Letter CCXCII. TO LADY HOLLAND.

My dear Lady Holland, K^^' 29th Nov. i8i6.

"We are at last arrived here. I expected to have
announced this to you a week ago, but we were a week
detained at sea in coming from Genoa to Leghorn. We
arrived here yesterday, and are occupied in searching
for lodgings, which seem difficult to be had on the

JEr. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 397

proper side of the river. The weather is at present
JDeautiful, and the temperature of the air mild, so that
my first impression is in flivour of the place.

Perhaps we exaggerated to ourselves the discom-
forts and exposure of the road over the Apennines by
Bologna, when we decided, upon that consideration, to
leave the high road, and come by Genoa. And we
were misinformed a little at Turin, both as to the
state of the Corniche, and as to the duration of a
coasting voyage. Between these two, I hesitated a
good deal at Genoa; and though my voyage proved
much longer than was promised, I believe it is fortunate
that we made that choice. Lord Carnarvon, with his
young party, came by land, with mules and a portan-
tine in case of accidents : they found it perfectly prac-
ticable in three days to Sarzanne ; but they found no
accommodation, scarcely shelter, at the places where
they stopped for the night; the road ascends often
great heights, and brought them into very cold air ; and
there are parts of the road, he thinks, where the por-
teurs could not carry their load, but would be compelled
to make him carry himself, and sometimes for a consi-
derable way.

We had bad Aveather during part of our voyage, that
is, heavy rains and a swell of the sea ; it was never cold,
however ; and what delayed us, was the want of a
steady wind, the land breezes, which made the sea so
beautiful to look at, being light and variable, on account
of the height of the coast and the narrowness of the bay.
I did not suffer from sickness, for I persevered in my
horizontal recumbent posture all the six days. I cannot
yet speak of any improvement in that oppression of my
breath, which I dislike more than the cough, because it
has never been explained to me by any of my physi-

VOL. II. 34

398 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

cians ; it is not getting worse, however, thougli just at
present, while I am weaker, in consequence of my con-
finement at sea, I feel the inconvenience of any exer-
tion more immediately. But now that rest is in my
power, I mean to have absolute repose till I feel strong
again, and probably in a week's time I shall be able to
make a favourable report in all respects. I find there
are some acquaintances of mine here, but I have not
seen any of them yet, as going wp stairs still incom-
modes me ; and besides, I have a mind to practise the
silence that was prescribed for me.

I am planning what I shall read during the winter ;
my idea is, to go through some of the best authors of
the country, and to keep myself, if I can, from the
temptations of their minor literature. I have not yet
been to the booksellers' shops, but I ascertained there
was a pretty good one at Leghorn.

Lord Lansdowne says he shall remain at Eome till
after Christmas, and then go to Naples for a month or
two. Dumont is in great force, and buys marbles. By
the way. Lord Lansdowne, after very full inquiries
about climates, wrote to me in the most decided terms,
against my coming to Rome, and in favour of Pisa ; and
Lord King, who is very knowing in such matters, con-
curred with him in opinion against Rome. So that I
have at present the satisfaction of believing that I
have chosen for the best ; at present, the air is delight-
ful, and the sky blue without a cloud.

Very affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

iEx. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 309

Letter CCXCIII. TO J. A. :\IURRAY, ESQ.

My dear Murray, i''^^' ^<^^- ^^^'^ ^^i*^-

I have never written to you, because I knew you
would be made acquainted with all the accounts we sent
to Charlotte Square,=-= and because my health and my
way of travelling left me no opportunity of learning
any thing to tell. In crossing France, we came the road
that I had the pleasure of travelling with you two years
ago, — through the Bourbonnais to Lyons ; it is a bad
road in point of travelling, but it leads through some
pretty countr}', and I was particularly struck, indeed
much more than I was the first time, with the beauty of
that which lies between Mont Tarare and Lyons. Many
of the places all along the way, and some of the wretched
inns, revived in my mind very agreeably the particulars
of that pleasant journey, some, probably, which would
never have occurred again, but for this driving over the
same ground. I felt a second time the regret of passing
within a few miles of the Grande Chartreuse, without
turning off to see it ; and I could not help thinking it
rather an odd accident, that I should be twice in my life
at such a city as Turin, and both times too unwell to
walk about and see it.

^Ye have written so amply and minutely on the sub-
ject of my health, that I have nothing new to say at
present ; the result is, that I am pretty much in the
same state as when I left Scotland. I had a longer
interval of relief from coughing nearly the last three
weeks of the journey, than I had ever had ; but I had
hardly announced this when it came back, though not

* His fatlier's house in Edinburirh. — Ed.

400 CORRESPONDENCE. [ISIG.

SO bad as before ; I have, for the ^Yeek we have been
here, had a httle of it ahnost every day. My weakness
of breathing is not worse. Except for the first two or
three days, we have had cokl weather ever since we
came here ; an eager wind blowing from the north-east,
the thermometer below the freezing point most nights,
and not much above forty degrees at any time of the
day. It wonld be delightful weather to enjoy in health
and exercise, for the sky is beautiful, and even this air
must be pleasant to those who can keep themselves
warm ; but it certainly is not what I came abroad for.
They tell us it will change, and that we shall have a
warmer temperature soon, for a long while together ; but
if I were not more anxious for rest and repose than any
thing else, and if I did not place much confidence in the
efficacy of mere tranquillity, I should regret that the
lateness of the season would not allow me to seek
warmth much farther south. If Naples does not give
it, my conviction is, that it is not to be had in Italy. I
have not yet, on account of this chilliness of the air,
got into the v/ay of taking exercise regularly; which
was one thing I mainly relied on : I talve a drive now
and then in a close carriage, which always does me
good, at least gives me spirits for the day ; and I have
a warm sunny walk in the street where I live, but it is
not longer than the turn upon the quarter deck, for the
first cross street is a funnel of cold air, and the mixture
of beG:2:ars and of convicts in chains (who work in the
streets) makes it sometimes too disagreeable to stay long.
We have got very comfortable rooms in the best situa-
tion, having the sunshine from its rising, nearly all day :
and, what consoles me for all other ill, I find I can read
with as much enjoyment, and as much activity of mind,
as at any former period of my life -, indeed, this vaca-

iET. 39.] CORRESrONDENCE. 401

tion from professional reading, and the entire liberty of
study and reflection, almost brings back to me the days
of youth, which the other circumstances of my condi-
tion seem to throw to such a distance.

I have cast myself headlong into Italian literature,
meaning, however, to confine myself to their first-rate
authors among the historians and poets, and to resist all
the temptations of their minor literature, as well as the
idleness of their antiquities and art. At present, I am
eno-aired with Dante and Machiavel ; but, as I have felt
before in other historical writers of this country, Machi-
avel makes me feel so much their want of heart, and all
generous sentiment, that I have some symptoms of a
sort of nostalgia, and am quite impatient for the arrival
of a box of books at Leghorn, in which I put up Addi-
son's Spectators, and Smith's Moral Sentiments.

It gives me great pain to hear such distressing
accounts as are sent from England and Scotland of the
scarcity, and the want of employment for the people.
Their sufferings are, I fear, most severe, and will not
admit of relief for months to come. In addition to
other evils, we shall experience on this occasion one of
the worst consequences of that sad job of the country
gentlemen, the corn bill ; for England will by its opera-
tion get no foreign grain till the prices are at the high-
est, and after all other countries have supplied their
wants ; and that means nearly all Europe. At Leghorn
there is great activity in the corn trade, bringing wheat
from the Levant and the Black Sea, the most from Alex-
andria : Leghorn is no doubt a port of deposit, where
our merchants may still find it, when the declaration of
the average at the end of the right number of months
(such formal nonsense makes one angry at the words)
shall apprise them that they may send out orders ; but,

34*

402 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

from what I could learn, what was brought from the
East was sent away agam very quickly to the coasts
wdthin the straits, Italy itself, the south of France, and
to Spain, in all of which countries the harvest is short.
Always, my dear Murray,

Ever most truly yours.

Era. Horner.

Letter CCXCIV. TO LADY HOLLAND.

Pisa, 13tli Dec. 1816.

Both yesterday and this morning, my dear Lady
Holland, have shone upon us by the charming arrival of
your letters, after the interval of a month. I dare say
the post has contributed not a little to raise the temper-
ature of the air to my feelings ; but the real fact is, that
after some six or eight hours of rain, such as I never
witnessed before, we have got much warmer weather,
and the thermometer has made a jump of about fifteen
degrees, both during the day and during the night. It
has been as high as fifty-four to-day, and was not lower
in the night than forty-four. I hear Dumont is returned
to Geneva, delighted with his Italian tour. I wish I
could have crossed him in his w^ay ; I should like too to
read one of the two books he has lately published, that
on the "sophistries" practised in the debates of public
assemblies ; this is a subject of which a little might be
made, both for amusement and use, and where his fun
and good writing must now and then break the fetters
he has put upon them, in the name of '^'- iwincipcs " and
method ; like some other things he has undertaken to
dress, nothing could in his hands spoil it for the public
taste, but his way of putting every thing upon Ben-
tliam's gridiron, to be scored and scorched in lines and
rules.

iEr. 39.J CORRESPONDENCE. 403

There is a little society here with Avliich I could di-
versify my quiet reading life much to my satisfaction,
but I abstain altogether; never knocking at any one's
door, and shutting mine almost every day to every
body.

I am making a study of Dante, which is rather too
big a word for any reading of mine now ; but I do not
find it a task, and he will make all other writers more
easy to me.=^ I have run through some of Machiavel's
Legations; they are highly entertaining, particularly
that to Ca3sar Borgia, with whose insinuating manners
and eloquence in conversation he seems certainly to
have been captivated, as well as by his force of charac-
ter. The details, given from day to day in despatches
to his government, while the affiiir of Sinigaglia was in
train, up to its execution, have the interest of a tragedy;
one has luckily no need of assistance to feel the horrors
of it, for the writer does not drop a phrase that could
excite it. The new edition of his familiar letters con-
tains some that are said to have been before unpub-
lished ; the edition, I mean, of Italia (Florence), 1813,
in eight volumes ; the three last volumes, which contain
these additions, are to be had separately. There are
some very pleasant letters between him and Guicciar-
dini. I have read over again an old acquaintance, the
Mandragola, with increased amazement ; how he has
mixed with the irresistible buffoonery of the story his
indignant satire against the priests ! There is one jDas-
sage as keen as the Provincial Letters, and very like
them. The Prince (which you may think strange)
I have read for the first time in my life ; and with such
disgust, that I do not know I shall ever be able to open

* See Appendix D.

404 COERESrONDENCE. [1816.

it again. It has not prevented me, however, from going
on with his History, in which I own I find nothing in-
consistent with the sort of mind that produced The
Prince ; and what I remember of the Discourses on
Livy would not alter this judgment ; but these I mean
to read once more. Alfieri's life, up to the French Re-
volution, has made me hate him; he loved liberty
very much in Machiavel's way, and understood it so.
His two tragedies ^Sald and Mirrci, which I was told were
his best, have made me admire and wonder, but with-
out much dramatic interest : this is a very rash judg-
ment, and I shall perhaps have to retract it ; but though
the conduct of his plot and scenes is skilfully pursued
for effect, his personages have no character of their own ;
and though they always speak the proper and very
forcible language of the passions, they never say any
thing but what one seems to have heard before, and ex-
pects them to say in their circumstances. There is con-
summate art in the Jlirra ; but it has not a touch of
that pathetic with which Ovid tells the story, and with
which Dryden has translated one speech, and with
which Eacine has imitated the same speech in Phedre.
Could there be a stronger trait of a want of original
genius, than his resolution not to read Racine any more,
for fear of spoiling his originality ! But I am falling
into very old stories : do not let Foscolo hear of my
heresies.

During the long interval of our not hearing from 3'ou,
we heard of Whishaw and the Romillys being well, by
a letter from Mr. Mallet to Madame Achard ; he gave
us the right history, too, of those riots, and of the good
conduct of the suffering people, which our friend Louis's
government takes some pains to misrepresent in their
newspapers. I do not believe that you knoAV Mr. Mai-

JEt. 30.] CORRESPONDENCE. 405

let*, at least not much ; I wish 3^011 did : ho is a very
amiable person, and to me quite agreeable, with a clear
right head, which he nses very much upon what is
passing in the world.

Your reproof about Sismondi's history is deserved ;
and though I have not gone l)ack to the work, I had
felt, in some measure, the harshness of my criticism, be-
fore I received yours, which is just and excellent. His
conversation had made me milder towards his book, and
almost will persuade me to resume it. AYhat had set
me off, was many childish pages of seeming philosophy,
signifying nothing ; Parisian generalities, heated up at
Geneva : but I ought at the same time to have remem-
bered, that he has embodied into his composition a great
deal of the good and useful philosophy of the last age,
on important political questions, though without origi-
nality or any good writing in his manner of doing it.

And now good night, iny dear Lady Holland : what
a blab I am become on paper, since my vow of vocal
taciturnity. My kind regards to Lord Holland.
Ever affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCXCV. TO MRS. DUGALD STEWART.

My dear Mrs. Stewart, ^'^'^^ i^t'^ ^^"^^ i^i^-

I ought to have told you long ago how well I
found all the Mintos and Elliots at Genoa ; where I
halted for two days on my way here ; and what a plea-
sure it was to have for two days the faces of English
friends. They were all in perfect health.

* John Lewis Mallet, Esq., son of the celebrated INIallet clu Pan. See
SmijtJt's Lectures on the French Revolution, vol. i. p. 96, and vol. ii. p. 219,
227. He has been for many years Secretary of the Audit Board. — Ed.

40G CORRESrONDENCE. [1816.

I can of course tell you nothing of this place, except
that we are at present enjoying beautiful weather, and
that the general look of the town is striking and pe-
culiar. But my present mode of existence is so like a
dream, that I do not venture to talk of things as real ;
to have been brouiirht over near a thousand miles of
foreign country, and not allowed to look about, and then
set down in a very famous place, without having breath
to ask a question, puts me in a manner beside myself

In a bookseller's catalogue this morning, I met with
the title of a work, which may have been originally
written by your ancient friend Lord Woodhouselee ; it
is a " disquisition upon the doubt which had arisen how
it happened that Petrarca did not expressly praise Laura
for her nose!" If you have any curiosity to see it, I
will send for it to Florence.

Pray tell Mr. Stewart there is a very remarkable
letter of Machiavel's lately published, written to a pri-
vate friend at the very time he was engaged in the
composition of The Prince, and not only fixing the
date of that work, but explaining, in a manner disgrace-
ful to the author, the use at least he made of it, in put-
ting it into the hands of the Medicis family ; the letter,
besides, is full of character, and describes, in a very lively
manner, the life he was leading when driven away from
Florence. This particular letter may be read at the
end of the last volume but one of " Pignotti's Storia
della Toscana," a book published here, but which was in
all the London shops before I came away ; it is to be
found also, with several others, which are entertaining
and curious, in a new collection published at Florence, in
1814, of Machiavel's public despatches and familiar
letters. By the way I must likewise tell Mr. Stewart,
that my late reading has suggested a slight criticism

JEt. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 407

upon one exj)ression of his with regard to " Machiavel's
Prince," where he calls it " one of the latest of his ^j*??!^//-
cations" The fact is, that his three great works were
none of them published in his lifetime, nor for four years
after his death • they appear to have been all written at
the same period of his life, during the eight or ten years
of leisure that were forced upon him ; and I believe it
may be made out from the works themselves, that The
Prince was composed and finished first of the three,
then the Discourses, and last of all the History. This
and the first having been written for the Medicis family,
the MSS. were in their hands, and they published them ;
the Discourses were printed by the care of some of his
personal friends. If Mr. Stewart washes to have the
proof of all this in detail, I can draw it out without any
trouble. You see that the Dissertation is one of my
companions in my travels.

The last I heard of Mr. Playfair was in a letter from
Lord Lansdowne, at Kome, of the 18th November, in
which he mentioned his arrival ; of course you have
later accounts. Remember me to all at Kinneil, and
believe me, dear Mrs. Stewart,

Very affectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCXCVI. TO J. A. MURRAY, ESQ.

My dear Murray, P^sa, 2ist Dec. isic.

I got yours of the 2d instant yesterday. You

say nothing of Mrs. Murray's health. By other accounts,

I find she had been ailing and confined to her room, but

w\as better ; I hope and trust by this time quite well.

Mr. Clerk's opinion will not make me think that there

408 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

"was no injustice done in the Ayrshire case * There was
an absolute failure of justice, upon a point of form/ after
infinite delay. If he and others think nothing wrong
in the existing laws, I am certain that was not the opin-
ion of Lord Eldon in that cause ; and I should have ex-
pected some of those you name to have been at least as
quick as he to see and admit defects that touch the lib-
erty of the subject. Of all persons, those who give you
the least aid, wdien any thing is to be done by legisla-
tion, are your ancient barristers ; the two operations of
mind, knowing what the laws are, and seeing what they
had better be, seem almost incompatible.

But it is idle to regret the obstacles that exist to any
amelioration of the constitational laws of Scotland.
Similar improvements in England have seldom been the
work of lawyers, but have been forced upon them, or
carried through in spite of them, by the public voice
upon some crying instance, like that Ayrshire case, or
by the efforts of individuals unconnected with the legal
profession. In Scotland you have no public voice ; for
you have neither a popular meeting nor a political press.

You leave me in doubt, whether you adopt Clerk's
opinion, when you state it, that the laws of Scotland and
their administration are particularly lenient to all per-
sons liable to imprisonment. Under the actual adminis-
tration, ought to be included the state of your prisons ;
which, from what I have seen of some, and heard of
many others, are a reproach to a civilised country.
Another branch of actual administration is the practice,
upon your circuits, of " deserting the Diet," at the dis-

* Tills Avas an action for wrongous imprisonment on the statute of 1701, c.
C, by John Andrew, a slioemaker, in the village of jMaybole in Ayrshire,
accused of seditious practices, against John Murdoch, Sheriff-Substitute of
that county. — Doic's Reports of Appeals, vol. ii. p. 402. — Ed.

^T. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 409

cretion of an Advocate-Depute ; by which, I have been
assured, in numberless instances, the imprisonment of
persons accused has been prolonged from year to year,
until it appeared that they had suffered confinement
long enough even for guilt, and upon that principle they
were discharged as persons, not tried indeed, but pun-
ished. You have the means of correcting me, if these
are fictions. Another rigour in the administration of
your laws, is the practice of committing indefinitely for
further examination ; under which I have been informed
there have been recent abuses to a great extent. Let
me add one more ; the power your magistrates exercise,
if legally or not I do not know, of condemning to long
and even solitary imprisonment, upon their own convic-
tion, without a jury, persons charged with police offences,
or even offences of another description, such as that of
the servant who assaulted and kissed his mistress. The
things I have spoken of actually do happen ; so much
for lenient administration. I am not one of those theo-
retical innovators who are for squaring the letter of the
laws to the ideal rules of a perfect justice ; the correc-
tion and prevention of practical grievances is the best
we need aim at. But there are some branches of the
law, in which the possibility of wrong ought to be pre-
vented, if by fresh guards the law can effect it; and
the most important of these is the liberty of the subject.
A single instance of abuse and oppression, like that from
Ayrshire, on which I must insist still, ought to raise
every voice for a law to make the repetition of such
conduct impossible. To quit that instance, the capital
defect of your law of imprisonment upon a criminal
charge is, that it does not provide a certain infillible
course of proceeding, to bring the accused person to
trial, as early as the preparation of evidence will admit
VOL. II. 35

410 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

of. The law, 'wliicli throws an innocent man into gaol,
ought of itself to determine speedily whether he ought
to be discharged or punished. Then you tell me of 3^our
act 1701, and that every man may run his letters; that
is, with money he may, if he sets about it with good
professional advice. But why should it be rendered
necessary for him to take any steps ? why do not his let-
ters run by operation of law, without any movement or
payment on his part ? The law has made the first move,
in taking him from his labour, his family, his liberty ;
ought it not to go on, and, with every degree of speed
that is consistent w^ith a due execution of justice, ascer-
tain a point so important to this man, if he is innocent,
the question of his innocence or guilt ? Here then is a
principle, the introduction of which would be a practical
improvement of your law ; keep the phraseology of the
act 1701, but let the letters run by operation of the
statute. Reverting here to the actual administration
again, I speak with very imperfect information, but my
impression is, that it is not a matter of course for every
prisoner to take immediate steps for running his letters;
that when he has recourse to it, there are difficulties
and delays from his having already lost time, and from
the formalities of the law ; that there is a sufficient field
for the chicane of such practitioners as minister to the
wants of prisoners ; and that the amount of fees is such
as cannot fall light upon a man in the condition of liv-
ing by his daily labour.

I see nothing in Clerk's other arguments : he dreads
discussion : you will not learn that of him. Is any
good ever done in England but by discussion ? This is
a hint worthy of some of my present acquaintance in
ecclesiastical habits on the Lung'-Arno. But juriscon-
sults, after a certain age, get wonderfully ecclesiastic

^T. 39.] CORRESrONDEXCE. 411

in their ways of tliinking. " It Avill be a long time be-
fore the new law is understood and executed," — that is
an argument I will not answer. He thinks it better
to preserve the present severity of penalties against the
magistrate who misconducts himself; that is the part
of the new bill on which I am least anxious. One use
of it was to conciliate the magistrates in favour of the
rest. I question, however, the solidity of Clerk's rea-
soning ; he ought to show that the penalties have, in
any instance, been enforced, and that the court has
never shrunk from doing justice upon a complaint on
account of their severity. I believe they are an instance
amono; a thousand, that there is no surer device for im-
punity, if that is the real drift, than to enact a punish-
ment such as nobody could think of enforcing.

I ought to ask your forgiveness for worrying you at
such length upon this subject. I feel it to be mere
Utopia, to talk of improvements in the law of Scotland ;
one has nobody to go to but the lawyers, and they
never favoured in any country the improvement of the
law. This would be too saucy, if I were not a bit of a
lawyer myself; and if I had not, in more instances than
one, caught myself sliding down into Westminster Hall
superstitions.

Remember me to all my friends, Thomson and Jeffrey
in particular ; and do not reproach them for not writing
to me. for I did not expect it. They had left it off when
I was in a condition to send them some return. Re-
member I am in a place of solitary confinement, where
I hear nothing but by letters ; and it very often hap-
pens, when I am hungering for gossip, and all the details
that become so dear when one is at a distance from the
spot, that every one of three or four letters politely de-

412 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

dines telling me what it takes for granted must be told
in the others.

My affectionate regards to Mrs. Murray and Miss
Murray.

Ever yours,

Era. Horner.

Letter CCXCVII. TO LORD HOLLAND.

Dear Lord Holland, Pi^a, 2ist Dec. isie.

I heard, with great pleasure you will believe, of
your being at last relieved from the gout; by the order
in which our letters reached us, the first I heard of your
amendment was, that you were walking in the garden
at Petworth ; and since that, Allen has told me you are
quite recovered.

I rejoice to hear you say, that the system of main-
taining legitimates in foreign countries, at the expense
of English treasure and character, has lost its popu-
larity ; I feared it was too early for that subject to be
seen by the English in its true light, for though they
always get at the true sense of things in the end, they
rarely come to it in time, nor until they have paid
deeply for it. It is the great theme for parliamentary
discussion, coupled with that of the reduction of the
army, which is closely connected with it, both ujDon the
grounds of economy, and upon all the true and enlarged
principles of political liberty. I hope when parliament
meets, these questions, so joined together, and taken
upon their broadest ground, will be urged rejDeatedly ;
not merely in the protest of one solemn debate, which
saves the consciences of the speakers, but does not work
upon the public. What I dread is, that in the House of
Commons there will be nothing but the old song of sine-

^Et. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 423

cures and reversions ; which we learned from the unrea-
sonable narrow-minded democrats, and in our turn have
been teaching it so exclusively to the excellent Whig
party among the gentry and middle orders of England,
that more general and generous notions of constitutional
liberty and foreign politics are no longer so familiar or
acceptable to them as they were formerly. As to
sinecures, the line we have hitherto taken on that
subject seems to me still the most reasonable, and it
ought to be adhered to with firmness; to concur in
their abolition or regulation, but to protect all existing
interests as property. As long as the subject would
bear discussion, I think the argument was much in
favour of sinecures, under our form of government ;
and that their existence, as a fimd of distribution by
statesmen among themselves, (to put it in the plainest
terms,) was an additional security given to the demo-
cracy, for the efficacy of what we justly reckon one of
the best marks of our freedom, that a man may rise
from the humblest rank to tlie highest office : the
democracy, however, have scouted all such arguments,
and I take the discussion to be at an end ; at least while
the present stigma is upon such places, no man, Avho
hopes by means of public confidence and reputation ever
to do any public good, would be indiscreet enough to
come near them.

But though this view of the subject would carry
me so far in the cry against sinecures, as to join in
their future abolition, no outcry, nor any public pres-
sure, should ever prevail upon me to touch them in the
present hands of those who got them, and hold them
by a legal title. I cannot see this in any light but rob-
bery ; which may be committed by parliament, with
as much injustice and violence as by a highwayman.

O r" <.

414 CORRESPONDENCE. [1816.

It is a ticklish thing to begin to draw subtle distinctions
about property ; and the last philosopher I would trust
with such a perilous experiment, is a popular assembly
in an hour of national necessity and heat. Perhaps one
grudges such a man as Lord Camden his vast drafts of
public money; with the same feeling, one might still
grudge the Pagets, for instance, their exorbitant grants
from Henry VIIL, for no one service rendered to the
people, and no one memorable action performed by the
family in any age of our history. If the House of Com-
mons take away Lord Camden's grant of the tellership,
which was given him perhaps fifty years ago, why
should not they proceed to take back also to the crown,
Lord Somers's manor of Ryegate, which was granted
about fifty years earlier ? The greater length of time
is nothing in the argument ; for prescription is the mere
creature of law, which by the argument is to have no
efficacy against reasons of state necessity ; besides, the
law has created no prescription in this case, judging it
unnecessary ; the grants being good in law from the
first moment. Then it may be said. Lord Somers's an-
cestor did great things for the country, and earned great
rewards : will it be for the democratic purists of the pre-
sent day to say, that the first Lord Camden deserved
none ? I think this is a point of the very first impor-
tance, considering what sort of discussions may be
broached in the ensuing session ; and the principles,
by which property is guarded from public rapine, ought
to be inculcated with authority and a strong hand.

The question of parliamentary reform is with me a
far more doubtful one, and attended with many difficul-
ties, which I have never yet solved to my own satisfac-
tion ; at least that part of it which respects the rotten
burghs, which is the only thing the democrats are strug-

2Et. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 4^5

gling for, and that out of their envy and hatred of the
aristocracy, not from jealousy of the crown. I have
sometimes thought their object a salutary one for our
liberties upon the whole, but I am ashamed to say I have
no clear nor fixed opinion yet upon that joart of the
subject. There are others, and important ones, in which
the reformers are clearly right ; though for other rea-
sons, than they commonly assign. I do not know what
I should think justifiable, if I were a radical reformer,
and were bold enough to make the experiment of a new
scheme of representation, but in my present views of
that question, there is nothing I would do more reso-
lutely, than to disclaim, if I had ; ny nrme to carry
weight with it, the idea of forcing this subject upon par-
liament, when such mighty difficulties of immediate
pressure demand all its attention, and the folly (in some
individuals, the palpable wickedness) of connecting the
present sufferings of the people with any thing in the
state of the representation. Pitt was the first dema-
gogue who propagated this fallacy, which has been flung
back upon his own course of measures, with amj^le retri-
bution. It is used at present so falsely, in my opinion,
that, ever since I have sat in the House, I should say,
that, in its worst vote, upon all great state questions of
peace and war, it has been in unison with the passions
of the people : there is but one seeming exception, the
vote on the Walcheren business, but which, when looked
at a little deeper than the surface, instead of proving
the power of the ministers of that day to carry a ques-
tion in the House against the sense of the public, really
proved the sense which the House had of its own power
at that crisis to choose ministers, and its decided prefer-
ence, in concurrence wath the public one must say, of
one set of men over the other.

416 COREESPONDENCE. [1816.

I am not at all surprised to hear that Lords Egremont
and Sheffield, two names oddly coupled, but very well
for this service, are declared arainst the sinkino; fund :
they are just for the expedient of the day that will help
things on another year, at whatever sacrifices of the
reasons, and pledges too, involved in their former votes.
To the extent of a certain sum, there is a positive pledge
of parliament to the creditors that the fund shall not be
touched. Taking what remains beyond that, is only
shifting for half a-year, and giving up for that the cer-
tainty of a great future relief, for wdiich we have been
paying annually, for thirty years, large sums. If the
sinking fund is let alone for a few years, there will be in
our financial history a rare example of provident, perse-
vering, and successful forbearance ; if it is violated, and
by Pitt's own creatures, it will be just as remarkable an
instance of extravagance, facility, and deception. While
there is a regiment or an office to reduce, I would not
touch a hair of its head. The country gentlemen in the
House of Commons, are, upon this subject, some of them,
the most arrant Jacobins ; they consider the whole body
of the stockholders as fair game ; that is, they have
gone on borrowing from monied men, campaign after
campaign, without thinking of the consequences ; and
when the whole amount of interest to be paid for the
money they have spent presses hard upon them, they
say, these men who ask for their interest are a set of
plunderers, who have been making money by the war.
■ On the reduction of the army, it seems to me we can-
not wish for any thing better in debate, than that the
ministers should dare to use as an arfifument for their
high establishment the existence or probability of riots.
That would put the discussion upon great topics, such as
the public ought once more to hear from their Whigs in

2Et. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 42y

i^arliament. The civil force must of course look for its
radical support to military hands ; but to pretend, that
England needs for that purpose any thing like so many
forces as we should consent for other reasons to vote,
would be a sound so new in the English parliament, that
I hope you will make the whole land ring with it.

I begin to be ashamed of my tediousness : I had some
other things I wished much to say, but I cannot for my
life say a thing concisely ; and you must be sick of this
bad paper and small writing, not to speak of the other
bad qualities of this letter.

Ever yours, most faithfully.

Era. Horner.

Letter CCXCVIII. TO IIIS MOTHER.

My dear Mother, Pisa, 4th Jan. 1817.

It is not too late yet to wish you all the happi-
ness that this and many new years can bring. I cannot
say Leo and I have had a merry Christmas, but it has
not been very sad; for we have heard pretty regu-
larly from home, and believe you are all in perfect
health.

The winter here is at present very mild, and indeed
delightful ; Leonard has got a little horse for me, and I
have had my first ride to-day, for a couple of miles out
of town ; and I found I could bear a little ambling pace
for a considerable way, without losing breath. If I can
go on with this, I have much faith in its efficacy ; and
there is no reason apparent at present why I should not,
for, except that we may expect a little cold weather in
the beginning of February, they tell us our winter is
nearly over. From what we have heard from time to
time of the severe cold of the winds at Florence, and at

418 CORRESPONDENCE. [1817.

Rome, the climate of this place seems to have been,
this season, far milder. I have a little nosegay npon
the table now, taken from an open garden in the town,
in which, besides China roses and a lily, there is the
most perfumed double jasmine ; and Leo brings in from
the way side in his walks, buds of spring. All this I
hope is soon to do me good ; for I am rendered so selfish
by illness, and the care taken of me, that I think only
of myself, you see, in these blessings of the sun. The
last ride I had was with dear little Mary j and, upon
recollection, I should have been better company for her
to-day, than on that occasion ; for I have no longer that
feeling of mortal lassitude, which hung upon me at Dry-
den, and seemed to wither me within : that sensation is
gone, though I am weaker now and leaner, and blow
still a very bad pair of bellows. Rest, however, has
done this for me.

All the world over, one hears of nothing but the suf-
ferings of the poor from scarcity. They have their
share of it in Tuscany; not that their corn harvest
failed, for that seems to have been a middling one;
but in the mountains the people live altogether upon
chesnuts, and bread made of that fruit, which did not
ripen this summer for want of heat. This has thrown
them upon the produce of the plains, which is in-
sufficient for both sets of inhabitants. An additional
suffering is occasioned by the Mure of the grapes
and olives. The price of grain, accordingly, and of
maize among the rest, is very high. This sort of pro-
duce has been prodigiously increased in Tuscany of late
years ; and what is curious, it seems to have been en-
couraged by that very change of the seasons, within the
last eight or ten years, which is said to have been
remarked all over Europe, and is so much lamented.

JEt. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 419

For maize requires more rain for its growth than an
Itahan summer used to afford, so that if they were to
become as dry and hot as before, this cultivation must
be discontinued. Tlie chesnut-eaters in the hills are be-
ginning to have patches of j^otatoes under the shade of
their great trees, but with much prejudice against them ;
in a little while, that " modest " vegetable, as some senti-
mental French traveller called the root of Ireland, will
gain upon the other, and make an important change
in the habits of that peasantry.

Farewell, my dear mother ; give my kindest love to
my father and all the rest.

God bless you.

Ever affectionately yours,

Era. Horner.

Letter CCXCIX. FROM MR. ALLEN.

Dear Horner, London, 7th Jan. isiz.

As your breathlessness seemed not to be at all
relieved either by the change of climate, or by the
treatment recommended to you by Baillie and Warren,
I made out a state of your case at present, as well as I
could collect the particulars from your own letters and
your brother's, and sent copies of it yesterday to both
those physicians, with a request that they would take
it into consideration, and give me their opinion this
morning. The enclosed paper is the result of their de-
liberation, in addition to which, Baillie desires me to
say, they are both satisfied that your difficulty of breath-
ing does not arise from water in the chest, and from the
history of your illness, they are equally persuaded it
does not proceed from tubercles, but they are not so
clear as to what is the real cause of it. Baillie thinks it
may proceed from a consolidation of part of the sub-

420 CORRESPONDENCE. [1817.

stance of the lungs, in consequence of which there is
less space for air, or it may arise from a change of struc-
ture in the air cells, by which they are become larger,
and in the same proportion afford a smaller surface for
the oxygenation, or whatever else we may call it, of the
blood. In either of the last suppositions there is no
danger from the complaint, though there may be much
inconvenience. If the cause is nothing but muscular
debility in the organs of respiration, you will obtain re-
lief from it as your strength returns. They recommend
to you, as you will observe, to resume the use of the
mercurial pill, and to try the effect of the supercar-
bonate of potassa.

I have not time for more, lest I should be too late
for the post. How much we all regret your absence,
and how much more the cause of it ! Every thing has
the appearance of a very active session ; but till people
begin to assemble in town, it is impossible to form a
guess what is the real feeling of the country.

Yours ever,

J. Allen.

Letter CCC. TO LADY HOLLAND.

My dear Lady Holland, P^^^' ''^'^ J^°- '^' '■

After some disappointment, this day's post
brought me your Nos. 17, 18, and 19, together; a most
gratifying budget, and full of interest. Nobody knows
half so well w^hat to write, and how to write it.

Though I leave the medical department for Leonard,
there are some points on which I may perhaps answer
you more distinctly myself About ten days ago, I sent
for Dr. Yacca ; and not only find him very agreeable in
conversation, but have taken an impression of confidence
in him as a physician. Perhaps in some measure, from

iET. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 421

the rational degree of scepticism he seems to entertain
as to the powers and reach of medicine ; and still more,
from the frankness with which he has given me to under-
stand, that he is very much in the dark about my case.
When I first saw him, I told him I had come here with
instructions from my English physicians, which I meant
to follow without variation ; but that I wished him to
come and see me from day to day, for some time, and
then give me his opinion of my illness, as well as enable
me to make a report of my present state to those I con-
fide in at home ; by whom it was my intention still to
be directed, whether I should persevere in the course
they had recommended, or change it for another. He
entered readily into my view, and has been with me
almost every day : in the course of next w^eek, I mean
to write either a letter to Dr. Baillie which I shall
transmit through Allen's hands, or some statements
which I will ask Allen to lay before him. Until I re-
ceive his response, I shall go on as I have done. I
may postpone till that communication any more parti-
cular account of myself than Leonard will give you in
his letter.

I hear Lady Morpeth has been confined ; I hope do-
ing w^ell. Remember me to Lord Morpeth with all the
kindness and respect you know I feel for him : in these
times, w^ould he would take the trouble to communicate
and impress more publicly the sound sense and pure feel-
ings he always has about public affairs. I will get the best
information for you I can about the art of Niello and
the Laurentino MS. In the meantime, let me refer you
to half a page in Pignotti's History of Tuscany, vol. v.
p. 175, where there is a professed explanation of the
sort of work called Niello ; it may be right or wrong ;
but it makes me perfectly comprehend your statement

VOL. 11. 36

422 CORRESPONDENCE. [1817.

of Benvennto Cellini's account of it, consistently with
there being such an impression or cast, as you say Mr.
Grenville has purchased.

My copy of Pignotti has no such preliminary volume
as you speak of, giving an account of villas and palaces
belonging to the grand duchy, and anecdotes of the
Medici family ; I want very much to see something of
their conduct after they made themselves grand-dukes,
and do not know where to look for it.

I shall not write to Allen till this day week, to give
Vacca more time than enough.

Ever most affectionately yours.

Era. Horner.

Letter CCCI. FROM LORD HOLLAND.
Dear Horner Holland House, lOth Jan. 1817.

I have your long, kind, and interesting letter to

answer, and though I cannot make an adequate return,
I can :* t least answer it ; but Lady Holland being half
ill with a headache, and more lazy than ill, (for it is
merely a slight cold,) is in a terrible fidget at missing a
post, and has deputed me to write for her, which I know
I cannot do, for I have not probably heard one half of
the things she could tell you ; hearing them, could not
recollect them ; and recollecting, could not tell you them
in so short and entertaining a manner.

We had persuaded Grey to come up soon, and pre-
pared plans for consultation on the course of proceed-
ing for the session, as well as the measures to be taken,
both about men and things, if beyond our expectation,
but not beyond all probability, the ministers should be
beat. But, alas ! the only time that I ever saw a pros-,
pect of good sound previous deUberation, a fortnight

^T. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 423

before the meeting of Parliament, Lord Grey is most
painfully detained at Milton, nursing Lady Grey, who is
taken ill of the scarlet fever, and fretting about his
children, whom he has separated from her and the
infection.

I agree with you in most of your points, but not quite
in the same degree. Retrenchment and economy, which
must include suppression of sinecures in future, and as
far as the rights of property (established by legal deci-
sion) admit, the reform of those now existing, as well as
the reduction of many useless places, miscalled the
splendour of the crown, are absolutely necessary to give
any party, who wishes to do good, authority and weight
with the people. They must go. The community are
punished, and severely punished, for their base acquies-
cence in liberticide wars, by their present distresses. I
am not so sorry for that as I ought to be. But let
ministers and the court be punished too, and a useful
lesson will be inculcated, that rash and unprincipled wars
cannot be entered into without (even in the case of suc-
cess) the people risking their prosperit}^, ministers their
power and influence, and kings and courts a part of their
beloved splendour. It is through the unpopularity of
the expenditure that we must get at the foreign system
of politics, which, in my conscience, I think the cause of
it. As to parliamentary reform, the industry of the vio-
lent party, and the talents, I must own, of one among
them, seem to have made a deep impression ; but I do
not despair of getting over that difficulty well. There
are many of our best friends out of parliament, and
many, too, who were not our friends till now, who are
anxious to support retrenchment, and to change foreign
policy, and to dismiss ministers, and yet, though re-
formers, are no great sticklers for any very violent

424 CORRESPONDENCE. [1817.

reform, and are both disgusted and alarmed at the lan-
guage of Cobbett, Hunt, and Cochrane. They are, I
hear, of their own accord, and without any concert wnth
us, to have a great dinner in Westminster, at which their
resolutions Avill be such as we must all approve ; though
perhaps, on the subject of sinecures, some of them will
be a little more peremptory than we could wish ; but
the fact is, they are eyesores, neither beautiful to the
sight nor useful to the body ; while they remain, we can
make no progress in courting the community, and they
must be lopped off. But enough of politics.

Whatever your other grumblings may be, you would
not fret about climate, if by a second si(/M you could see
the cold thick frosty fog of this day.

Yours,

V. Holland.

Letter CCCII. TO EARL GREY.
My dear Lord, Pisa, i4th Jan. i8i7.

You must permit me to congratulate you, because
I have so much pleasure in doing so, upon an event of
which I have just heard, the marriage of Lady Louisa.
Nothing can affect so nearly j^our happiness and that of
your family, in which I shall not always feel a most sin-
cere interest. I beg to be remembered, upon this occa-
sion, particularly to Lady Grey.

You will think it natural for me to look forward, with
great anxiety, to the meeting of parliament : the future
safety of the country depends so much, not only upon
the measures relative to finance and expenditure which
shall be adopted in the ensuing session, but upon the
views of their real situation, which the intelligent and
effective part of the community may be taught, by those

^T. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 425

statesmen in Parliament to whose opinions they look.
Our financial embarrassments, I fear, are now of a very
serious nature. Those in trade and agriculture, I am
persuaded, have already past the worst, and at all events
cannot be otherwise than of a temporary nature ; the
other difficulties, if not met on the part of the country
with great firmness, and on the part of the legislature
with the right measures, may endanger the government
itself and the whole system of our liberties. I have
vast confidence, however, in the resources which are
found in the freedom of our government for a contest
with political calamities, and in the soundness of public
opinion in England, when it is honestly instructed and
trusted. The delusions, which appear to have spread
among the lower classes of the people, unemployed and
suffering, respecting the efficacy of indefinite reforms,
as a cure for their actual misery, may, by neglect, and
in a long continuance of such distress, rise higher, and
threaten us with convulsions.

But this is an evil for which a sure preventive has
always been found hitherto in parliament. AVhen the
first day of the session is over, I shall feel great impa-
tience to know what has passed ; for the sentiments and
views given by leading men that day have more weight
with the public, than the result of many subsequent
debates. What I trust is, besides giving a right direc-
tion to the public anxiety, that the opposition to large
votes of supply and establishment will be pursued in
detail, from day to day, in the House of Commons, and
that time will not be given to the ministers, by proposi-
tions of inquiry upon a large scale, which have always
ended in nothing. It is very presumptuous, however, in
me, at this distance from what is going on, to suggest
even my wishes upon these subjects.

36*

426 CORRESPONDENCE. [1817.

I have heard to-day of the Duke of Wellington's sud-
den journey from Cambray to London, and thence to
Paris. This looks like a prelude to some immediate
measure of importance. The suspension of the contri-
butions is a more important event, for the restoration of
common sense in England upon foreign politics and mili-
tary establishments, than one durst have hoped for so
early.

Believe me ever, my dear Lord,

Yours, faithfully and sincerely,

Era. Horner.

Letter CCCIII. TO LADY HOLLAND.
My dear Lady Holland, P^^a, 29tli Jan. i8i7.

My reason for writing is, as usual, only to tell
you about myself I am now entirely recovered from
all the effects and weakness of the accidental fever I
was attacked with the beginning of last week; and I have
resumed the opium, with the same good effect as before.
How long this will last, remains to be seen. I have taken
it three nights running, a grain of the gum extract on
going to bed ; and this morning I have begun to take
the same dose before getting up. The power of the
evening's dose is nearly exhausted next morning; all day,
however, I felt my breathing a good deal more easy and
tranquil. The effect of what I have taken this morning
has perfectly corresponded with what I expected from
the other trials ; the relief seems to me quite marvel-
lous, and I could fall do\Yn and worship my pill like a
Turk; Avhat is very new to me indeed, I have got
through the labours of my toilet not only without pain
and palpitations, but with scarcely any feeling of exer-
tion ; and I am altogether a stronger and better man

iEx. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 427

than I have been a great while. You will think I write
this, under the delirium of ray drug, and the alteration
of my condition looks something like a reverie ; hut I
really consider the experiment now as having Ijeen
fairly tried, the result being uniform of all that I have
made, before my fever, and since. Even if it should be
but a transient effect, what has taken place must surely
throw some light on the nature of my disease; Dr.
Vacca will not speak out yet about it, except in con-
jectures ; but he seems to watch me with a real curiosity.
By Saturday next, I shall be entitled to include what
we have observed with regard to the operation of opium,
in the statement which I wish Allen to consider and lay
before Dr. Baillie. The weather has been very fine for
a w^eek past ; here again, you will suspect me of giving
the "couleur de rose," because I happen to feel well
myself; the last three days have been delicious, as this
is, and I have not failed to take my drive.

If I had not been very deep in Father Paul and his
debates, I should have thought more than I did last
night of the House of Commons. I could not help
wandering there now and then. In return for the
flowers of speech you are despatching for me at this
moment, I send you an offering of the earliest violets
from the Val d'Arno. If they are intercepted, they will
go far to convict two such suspicious characters, of trea-
son against the state of Europe.

I have not yet received the Tales of my Landlord ;
1 longed for them last week, when I was just in the
state for a novel. Boccaccio was my resource, but his
stories are too short, and his style too good for a sick
head.

Tuesday. I am shocked to have to interrupt the
letter I was writing on the other leaf, in order to tell

428 CORRESPONDENCE. [1817.

you what I liave just learnt that poor Lord Guildford
died this morning at eight o'clock. It is a very sudden
event, if it could be so in so broken a constitution.
Vacca says, Lord Guildford's constitution was completely
broke up; "une machine fracassee;" and it must be a
ereat satisfaction to his friends to know, that he was
attended from the first by this excellent physician, who
deserves the first confidence, and watches his patients
with unremitting- care.

Yours affectionately,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCCIV. TO LADY HOLLAND.

My dear Lady Holland, ^'''^^ ^th Feb. 1817.

The date of our latest accounts from you is now
very old, the 30th of December; your letter from Wo-
burn, No. 21. It is provoking to think that letters from
you, probably several, are upon the road for us, which
we might have received.

We have had the finest weather possible, for a fort-
night now. I have had two rides, upon excellent turf
at the Cassino, in a wood of ilexes, and in sight of the
Massa mountains; and mean to ride now every day,
whilst this warmth lasts. I have been out every day in
a carriage, since I recovered from the fever ; and my re-
port of myself in all respects is very favourable. The
use of the opium is still but an experiment, and I wish
to have a little more certainty and longer observation
before I give you a formal account of it for the doctors.

I told you, I am reading the Council of Trent. It en-
gages me deeply, and, making allowance for the subject,
which can suit very few tastes, is one of the best of his-
tories. If you saw me take Father Paul into bed, as

iET. 39.] CORRESPONDENCE. 429

soon as I heave had my early tea, you would exclaim
that none but a dull Scotsman,, bred upon all the
chopped straw of learning, could so take to so dry a
book. That may be the true cause of it, but it is so.
I have always had a relish for works that treat of the
history of opinions. There is a sameness in Father
Paul's subject, and the characters are few for so long a
book j but he gives it more even of dramatic interest
than could have been expected. I should like some-
thing more of elegance and imagination in the style,
even for history ; but it has the other merits of histori-
cal style in the highest degree. I have always thought
one of Mackintosh's chief difficulties in his undertaking
was to put into narrative the deliberations of an assem-
bly ; Father Paul has shown how many of these diffi-
culties are to be overcome, and some indeed peculiar to
his assembly. But you have had more than enough of
this stuff!

Yours ever most affectionately,

Fra. Horner.

Letter CCCV. TO HIS FATHER.

My dear Sir, risa,4th Feb. 1817.

I am not going to trouble you yet with the
formal medical report which I promised ; because I con-
sider the use of the opium as still a matter of experiment,
and one goes on from day to day observing its effect ;
so that I become unwilling to give any thing like a de-
finitive account of it till I have more certainty. I have
still, however, a favourable report to make, both of the
continued operation of that medicine, and of my present
state of health.

I am undoubtedly better upon the whole in all re-

430 CORRESPONDENCE. " [1817.

spects. The weather is at present, and for above a fort-
night has been, like the finest spring season ever known
in England, in April or May ; so that I get out every
day, for above two hours, and the last two days I have been
one of these hours on horseback. After driving two or
three miles from the town to a farm of the grand-duke's,
we get a good green ride within his inclosures upon a
light sandy turf It is a dead flat indeed, but in sight of
magnificent mountains ; the Pisan hills on the one side,
which are round and brown, grown with trees to the
top, half way up olives, and above them the pines and
firs of the country, among which appear a great many
white houses and small villages, on all x)arts of the hill ;
on another side, we have the mountains of Massa and
Carrara, which are much higher, and are of a different
aspect, having the rugged sides and edge and sharp
peaks of an alpine ridge. I give you this description,
that you may have the better notion of the rides we can
take; nobody knows better than yourself, how much
the efficacy of that sovereign m§dicine depends upon
the eye being fed. as one jogs on, with cheerful scenery
and great prospects. We shall have still greater enjoy-
ment, when we can extend our ride to the hills them-
selves. At present I go out in a little carriage, and Leo-
nard gives me his pony when we get to the turf; but I
feel now so strong, that I have set Leo to inquire for a
second pony, that we may take the whole in company.
The riding does his stomach a great deal of good ; since
he has been regularly on horseback, he has complained
much less of acid and other evils.

The opium has certainly a very signal effect upon my
breathing ; within an hour after I take my pill, if I have
been panting, and coughing, and irritated before, I be-
come quite tranquillised, and all these symptoms are

^T. 30.] CORRESPONDENCE. 43]^

suspended, so that I not only have perfect ease while I
remain at rest, but I may even move about, and use a
degree of muscular exertion with freedom and impunity,
for which I should be speedily checked by palpitations
and short breath, if I had not the drug in me. Dr. A^acca
tells me, he is of opinion, we have every reason to be
satisfied for the present ; he appears to me to proceed
with the utmost caution, and it would be impossible for
any man to bestow a more sedulous and watchful atten-
tion on a patient, than he gives me. I have long con-
sidered it a settled point, that my complaints were not
consumptive ; Dr. Vacca thinks they bear none of the
appearances with which consumption is ever known to
commence. From the distinct and strong effect which
opium has had upon them, he thinks it reasonable to
infer that an affection of the nerves of the lungs forms
a part at least, and a considerable part, of the disease ;
at present he does not carry his inference farther.

Of all this, however, I mean to write to you still more
in detail, when I have had a little more time for closer
observation under his directions : that accident of the
fever was an inconvenient interruption, and lost me
much time. I would rather you would not mention
these particulars to any but our medical friends, who
take, I believe, a real interest in my case ; you know
how much I hate the thoughts of having my story and
my infirmities served about as gossip ; I believe you will
hmnour me in this, even if you look upon it as an un-
reasonable shame, which I do not think you will.

Since writing this letter, I have had my ride ; we are
just come in. The air blows fresh, but the sun is warm,
and the sky without a cloud. There are the most active
appearances of spring ; a strong vegetation in all the
winter-sown crops, and that bustle of field labour which

432 CORRESPONDENCE. [1817.

at no season of the year is more enlieartening than at
the present. The great variety of occupations here,
makes it still more cheering and interesting ; in one
field, they are still gathering the olives, in another prun-
ing the vines, in a third ploughing for their Turkey
wheat, in a fourth preparing the ground with the spade
for some other sowing. Labourers are mingled of both
sexes. The plough is most primitively rude ; the grey
oxen have a primitive beauty, that seems to suit it.
Nothing makes me more impatient of my restraints, than
the sight of these fields ; for I feel far greater curiosity
to know the ways and habits of this peasantry and their
husbandry, and to understand a little the frame of a
society, so unlike what we have at home in the most
essential respects, than to penetrate into the Campo
Santo, with all its treasures of art. I regret that we
have lost Mr. Oswald, to whose assistance I looked for-
ward in walking out to the Pisan farms, when I can
walk ; he is gone to Rome.

We have not heard of you later than the 7th ult., the
date of Fanny's kind and entertaining letter to me. But
we trust you are well, and we hope getting off with a
mild winter. My best love to my mother, and all the
rest.

My dear Sir,

Most afiectionately yours,

Fra. Horner.

The cheering hopes of renovated strength, and of
future enjoyment of health, expressed in this letter, were
also apparent in the greater degree of confidence with
which Mr. Horner looked forward to his future plans for

-S:t. 39.J HIS LAST ILLNESS. 433

the spring ; and he even spoke of behig unable to resist
a visit to Kome, before he returned to England. He at
no time appeared to despair of ultimate recovery, and
never uttered a word indicating apprehension that he
was labouring under a fatal disease ; but on more than
one occasion he expressed a belief, that his recovery
would be slow ; and that he should have a long interval
of repose, before he should be al)le to resume his active
duties. Under the influence of those feelings, he drew
out a sketch of a plan for the occupation of that expect-
ed period of retirement, in a small book wdiich he headed,
"Designs," adding, "At Fisa, 2d Felniarf/, 1817, wider
ilic auspices of opium and returning springT The whole of
this curious and interesting document will be found in
the Appendix to this volume.^-'

But it was ordained, that none of these designs should
ever be accomplished ; his feelings of improving health
were an illusion ; his disease was fast approaching to its
fatal termination ; and in four days from the date of the
preceding letter, he closed his earthly career.

Two days after he had written the last letter to his
father, the difficulty of breathing and the cough reap-
peared with some severity ; on the following morning
they were somewhat abated ; but towards the evening
they returned, accompanied by drowsiness. I slept in a
room next to his own, with an open door between us.
In the night I heard him moaning, and on going to him,
he said, that he moaned from difficulty of breathing;
but that he wished^ to be left to sleep. I sent for Dr.
Vacca, w^ho came at seven in tlie morning ; — it was
Saturda}', the 8th of February. He found his patient
labouring greatly in his breathing, with strong palpita-

* Appendix E.

VOL. II. 37

434 ins DEATH. [1817.

tioiLs of the heart, and a low, intermittent, and irregular
pulse ; his forehead covered with a cold sweat, and his
face and hands of a leaden colour. He was, however,
perfectly sensible, and spoke in a clear, distinct manner ;
expressing neither apprehension nor anxiety about him-
self Various stimulating applications were tried, but
they afforded no relief; the difficulty of breathing
gradually increasing.

Although I had entire confidence in the skill of Dr.
Yacca, I requested, towards the afternoon, that there
might be a consultation with another physician. They
came together soon after four o'clock, and I left the
bed-side of the patient, to receive them in the adjoining
room; I was absent about ten minutes, and returned
alone, to prepare him for seeing the new physician. On
drawing aside the curtain, I found his face deadly pale,
his eyes fixed, and his hand cold ; for a few moments I
flattered myself that he had only fainted from weakness ;
but the sad reality was soon revealed to me, — the pre-
cious object of my care w\as taken from us for ever.

On the following Monday I assented to the request of
Dr. Yacca, that there might be an examination of the
body. It was then discovered that his disease was not
consumption, but an enlargement of the air cells, and a
condensation of the substance of the lungs, (which the
sagacity of Baillie had suggested as the probable cause
of the worst symptoms,) a malady which no medical
skill could have cured.'"''

Notwithstanding the symptoms of 'organic disease, and
their long continuance, I had no serious apprehensions
of a fiital termination ; on the contrary, I felt an assu-

* For the information of medical men, I have given in the Appendix (F)
a copy of Dr. Vaccu's report, together witli some observations made upon it by
Dr. Warren.

^T. 39.] INTERMENT. 435

ranee that renovated health would come with the genial
weather of spring in that climate. My brother's cheer-
fulness, his activity of mind, and the absence of all alarm
about himself, had deluded me into this belief; nor had
any warning expression of his acute and watchftd phy-
sician prepared me for the sudden and afflicting blow
which fell upon me, aggravated as it was by all that my
imagination brought before me, of the agony of those
in my distant home when the sad intelligence should
arrive. I should do injustice to my feelings, were I to
omit to say that, upon this trying occasion, I derived the
greatest comfort from the more than friendly attentions
of Mrs. Drewe, (the sister of Lady Mackintosh,) her
daughters, and the Miss Aliens, her sisters, who had
come to Pisa on a similar melancholy errand. They did
not leave the last duties to their departed friend to be
performed by strangers; and they stood by my side,
when I laid the mortal remains of my dear brother in
his grave, in the Protestant cemetery at Leghorn.

TRIBUTES

MEMORY

FRANCIS HORNER.

Q*?*

TEIBUTES.

"finis vit^ ejus

nobis ltjctuosus, amicis tristis,

extra.neis etiam ignotisque non sine cura fuit. —

ipse quidem,

quanquam medio in spatio ^tatis ereptus,

quantum ad gloriam,

longissimum ^vum peregit."

The first public announcement of Mr. Horner's death,
in England, was by the following notice in the Morning
Chronicle of the 28th of February, which was written
by his friend Mr. Allen, the Master of Dulwich College : —

"It is with deep concern we have to announce the
death of Francis Horner, Esq., Member of Parliament
for St. Mawes. This melancholy event took place at
Pisa, on the eighth instant. We have had seldom to
lament a greater loss, or to bewail a more irreparable
calamity. With an inflexible integrity, and ardent
attachment to liberty, Mr. Horner conjoined a temper-
ance and discretion not always found to accompany these
virtues. The respect in which he was held, and the
deference with which he was listened to in the House of
Commons, are a striking proof of the effect of moral
qualities in a popular assembl}^ Without the adventi-
tious aids of station or fortune, he had acquired a weight
and influence in Parliament which few men whose lives

440 TRIBUTES.

were passed in Opposition have been able to obtain ; and
for this consideration he was infinitely less indebted to
his eloquence and talents, eminent as they were, than
to the opinion imiversally entertained of his public and
private rectitude. His understanding was strong and
comprehensive ; his knowledge extensive and accurate ;
his judgment sound and clear; his conduct plain and
direct His eloquence, like his character, was grave and
forcible, without a particle of vanity or presumption,
free from rancour and personality, but full of deep and
generous indignation against fraud, hypocrisy, or injus-
tice. He was a warm, zealous, and affectionate friend ;
hio-h-minded and disinterested in his conduct ; firm and
decided in his opinions ; modest and unassuming in his
manners. To his private friends his death is a calamity
they can never cease to deplore. To the public it is a
loss not easily to be repaired, and in times like these
most severely to be felt. Mr. Horner was born in 1778,
admitted a Member of the Faculty of Advocates in 1800,
and called to the English Bar in 1807. He came first
into the House of Commons in 1806, and has been
member of three successive parliaments.

" The only official situation he ever held was the la-
borious office of Commissioner for the Liquidation of
the Carnatic Claims, which he kept only for a short time,
having resigned it many years ago, because he found
the duties which it imposed on him, were incompatible
with the application due to his professional pursuits."

LETTER FROM MR. ALLEN TO MR. HORNER'S FATHER.
Dear Sir Arlington Street, 3d March, 1817.

After the loss you have sustained of so excellent
a son — so admirable a man — so suddenly and unex-

MR. ALLEN. 441

pectedly taken from us, at the moment when every
recent account held out to us such plausible, though fal-
lacious, hopes of his amendment, it would be in vain, at
present, to address to you any topics of consolation ; and
if it were otherwise, I am myself too great a sufferer by
this calamity, to undertake the alleviation of another's
sorrow. I have lost a friend of twenty years' standing,
whose advice I have for many years been accustomed to
use on every event and project of my life, to whose ap-
probation I looked forward as the reward and incentive
of all my labours and occupations, in whose judgment I
had the most perfect reliance, and whose integrity of
character, and benevolence of heart, I had every day
more reason to admire. The prospect of life before me,
though uncertain, is long enough to make me feel
severely the loss of such a friend and counsellor, and
too short to allow me to indulge a hope, that I can ac-
quire another of the same value, if such another, as he
was, is to be found.

Time alone can make 3^ou submit with resignation to
this calamity ; but it may be some alleviation of your
grief to hear, how much, and how generally, he is
lamented. I do not speak merely of his private friends,
but of the public at large, and more particularly of the
House of Commons, where men of all parties join in ex-
tolling his merits, and lamenting his loss. So strong and
general is this feeling, that, on the strength of it, his
friends have thoughts of venturing on a measure, which,
though not quite unprecedented, is nevertheless unusual,
and somewhat irregular. In moving the customary writ
for the borough wdiich he represented, it is intended to
say a few words on his merits and character. Lord Mor-
peth has most kindly undertaken this office, and it is some
consolation to think, that if poor Horner could have

442 TRIBUTES.

looked forward to the possibility of such a measure, there
is no man in the House of Commons he would have
selected in preference to Lord Morpeth, for the discharge
•of this tribute to his memory. Some others may possibly
follow Lord Morpeth, and even from the opposite side of
the House : my only fear is, that too many will come
forward.

Both Lord and Lady Holland have been in the deepest
affliction, since this melancholy event was conveyed to
us. The loss to Lord Holland is very great, as there was
no man in the House of Commons, since the death of his
uncle, with whom he consulted on more confidential
terms than Avitli your son. Lady Holland intends to
WTite to Mrs. Leonard Horner, but has not yet found
herself equal to the task.

I need say nothing of this fatal malady, as the cause
of it has been ascertained, and communicated by your
son Leonard to Dr. Gordon. It appears that those
physicians were in the right, who, from the first, thought
there were little or no hopes of his recovery : we, who
w^ere willing to think otherwise, were blinded by our
washes.

Mr. Leonard Horner is to be in Paris about the 10th
of March. He appears to be satisfied with the manner
in which every thing was conducted at Leghorn, and
expresses great sense of obligation to the kindness of
Mrs. Drewe and the Miss Aliens.

With kind remembrances to Mrs. Horner and the rest
of your family,

I remain, dear Sir,

Yours faithfully,

John Allen.

MR. WIIISIIAW. 443

BY JOHN AVIIISIIAW, ESQ.

Extract from a Letter from Mr. Winshaiv to Thomas Smith, Esq., of
Easton-Grey, Wilts, dated the Isl of March, 1817.

" I cannot yet write or speak with any tolerable degree
of composure on the subject of the loss of my invaluable
friend Horner. It has spread a gloom over our whole
circle of society. Nor is this feeling confined to Horner's
immediate friends. It is universally and strongly ex-
pressed, especially in that place where he was pursuing
so honourable a career, and where his loss is truly irre-
parable, — the House of Commons. All parties and all
individuals unite in bearing testimony to his distinguished
talents, his manly and impressive eloquence, and the
simplicity, independence, and integrity which marked
every part of his conduct. You will be glad to hear that
by a general understanding throughout the House, and
at the suggestion of the Speaker himself, an opportunity
will be taken of giving a public expression to these feel-
ings, on moving the writ for the vacant scat."

PROCEEDINGS IN THE HOUSE OF COxMMONS, ON THE MOTION FOR
A NEW WRIT FOR THE BOROUGH OF ST. MAWES, ON MONDAY,
MARCH 3, 1817.

Lord Morpeth'-' rose, and spoke as follows : — I rise to
move that the Speaker do issue his writ for a new Mem-
ber to serve in Parliament for the borough of St. Mawes,
in the room of the late Francis Horner, Esq.

* The present Earl of Carlisle.

444 TKIBUTES.

In making tliis motion, I trust it will not appear pre-
sumptuous or officious, if I address a few words to the
House upon this melancholy occasion. I am aware that it
is rather an unusual course -, but^w^ithout endeavouring to
institute a parallel with other instances, I am authorised
in saying that the course is not wholly unprecedented.

My lamented friend, of whom I never can speak with-
out feelings of the deepest regret, had been rendered
incapable for some time past, in consequence of the bad
state of his health, of applying himself to the labours of
his profession, or to the discharge of his parliamentary
duties. He was prevailed upon to try the effects of a
milder and more genial climate, — the hope was vain
and the attempt fruitless : he sunk beneath the slow bat
destructive effect of a lingering disease, which baffled
the power of medicine and the influence of climate ; but
under the pressure of increasing infirmity, under the in-
fliction of a debilitating and exhausting malady, he pre-
served undiminished the serenity of his amiable temper,
and the composure, the vigour, and firmness of his excel-
lent and enlightened understanding. I may, perhaps, be
permitted, without penetrating too far into the more
sequestered paths of private life, to allude to those mild
virtues — those domestic charities, which embellished
wdiile they dignified his private character. I may be
permitted to observe, that, as a son and as a brother, he
Avas eminently dutiful and affectionate : but I am aware
that these qualities, however amiable, can hardly, with
strict propriety, be addressed to the consideration of
Parliament. When, however, they are blended, inter-
w^oven, and incorporated in the character of a public
man, they become a species of public property, and, by
their influence and example, essentially augment the
general stock of public virtue.

HOUSE OF COMMONS. 445

For his qualifications as a public man I can confi-
dently appeal to a wider circle — to that learned pro-
fession of which he was a distinguished ornament — to
this House, where his exertions will be long remembered
with mingled feelings of regret and admiration. It is
not necessary for me to enter into the detail of his
graver studies and occupations. I may be allowed to
say generally, that he raised the edifice of his fair fame
upon a good and solid foundation — upon the firm basis
of conscientious principle. He was ardent in the pursuit
of truth ; he was inflexible in his adherence to the great
principles of justice and of right. Whenever he de-
livered in this House the ideas of his clear and intelli-
gent mind, he employed that chaste, simple, but at the
same time nervous and impressive style of oratory, which
seemed admirably adapted to the elucidation and discus-
sion of important business : it seemed to combine the
force and precision of legal argument with the acquire-
ments and knowledge of a statesman.

Of his political opinions it is not necessary for me
to enter into any detailed statement : they are suffi-
ciently known, and do not require from me any com-
ment or illustration. I am confident that his political
opponents will admit that he never courted popularity
by any unbecoming or unworthy means : they will have
the candour to allow, that the expression of his political
opinions, however firm, manly, and decided, Avas untinc-
tured with moroseness, and unembittered with any per-
sonal animosity or rancorous reflection. From these
feelings he was effectually exempted by the operation
of those qualities which formed the grace and the charm
of his private life.

But successful as his exertions were, both in this
House and in the courts of law, considering the con-

VOL. II. 38

446 TRIBUTES.

traded span of his life, they can only be looked upon as
the harbingers of his maturer fame, as the presages and
the anticipations of a more exalted reputation. But his
career was prematurely closed. That his loss to his
family and his friends is irreparable, can be readily con-
ceived ; but I may add, that to this House and the coun-
try it is a loss of no ordinary magnitude : in these times
it will be severely felt. In these times, however, when
the structure of the constitution is undergoing close and
rigorous investigation, on the part of some with the view
of exposing its defects, on the part of others with that of
displaying its beauties and perfections ; we may derive
some consolation from the reflection, that a man not
possessed of the advantages of hereditary rank or of
very ample fortune, was enabled, by the exertion of his
own honourable industry — by the successful cultivation
of his native talents, to vindicate to himself a station and
eminence in society, which the proudest and wealthiest
might envy and admire.

I ought to apologize to the House, not, I trust, for
having introduced the subject to their notice, for of
that I hope I shall stand acquitted, but for having paid
so imperfect and inadequate a tribute to the memory of
my departed friend.

Mr. Canning. — Of all the instances wherein the same
course has been adopted, as that which my noble friend
has pursued with so much feeling and good taste on this
occasion, I do not remember one more likely than the
present to conciliate the general approbation and sym-
pathy of the House.

I, Sir, had not the happiness (a happiness now coun-
terbalanced by a proportionate excess of sorrow and re-
gret) to be acquainted personally, in private life, with
the distinguished and amiable individual whose loss we

HOUSE OF COMMONS. 447

have to deplore. I knew him only within the walls of
the House of Commons. And even here, from the cir-
cumstance of my absence during the last two sessions, I
had not the good fortune to witness the later and more
matured exhibition of his talents j which (as I am in-
formed, and can well believe) at once kept the promise
of his earlier years, and opened still wider expectations
of future excellence.

But I had seen enough of him to share in those ex-
pectations; and to be sensible of what this House and
the country have lost by his being so prematurely taken
from us.

' He had, indeed, qualifications eminently calculated to
obtain and to deserve success. His sound principles
— his enlarged views — his various and accurate knowl-
edge — the even tenour of his manly and temperate
eloquence — the genuineness of his warmth, when into
warmth he was betrayed — and, above all, the singular
modesty with which he bore his faculties, and wdiich
shed a grace and lustre over them all ; these qualifica-
tions, added to the known blamelessness and purity of
his private character, did not more endear him to his
friends, than they commanded the respect of those to
whom he was opposed in adverse politics ; they ensured
to every effort of his abilities an attentive and favouring
audience ; and secured for him, as the result of all, a
solid and unenvied reputation.

I cannot conclude. Sir, without adverting to a topic
in the latter part of the speech of my noble friend, upon
which I most entirely concur with him. It would not
be seemly to mix with the mournful subject of our pre-
sent contemplation any thing of a controversial nature.
But when, for the second time within a short course of
years, the name of an obscure borough is brought before

448 TRIBUTES.

US as vacated by the loss of conspicuous talents and cha-
racter =^', it may be permitted to me, with my avowed
and notorious opinions on the subject of our parliamen-
tary constitution, to state, without offence, that it is at
least some consolation for the imputed theoretical de-
fects of that constitution, that in practice it works so
well. A system of representation cannot be wholly
vicious, and altogether inadequate to its purposes, which
sends to this House a succession of such men as those
whom we have now in our remembrance, here to deve-
lope the talents with which God has endowed them, and
to attain that eminence in the view of their country,
from which they may be one day called to aid her
counsels, and to sustain her greatness and her glory.

Mr. Manners SuTTON.f — I know not whether I
ought, even for a moment, to intrude myself on the
House: I am utterly incapable of adding any thing to
what has been so well, so feelingly, and so truly stated
on this melancholy occasion ; and yet I hope, without
the appearance of presumption, I may be permitted to
say, from the bottom of my heart, I share in every sen-
timent that has been expressed.

It was my good fortune, some few years back, to live
in habits of great intimacy and friendship with Mr.
Horner : change of circumstances, my quitting the pro-
fession to which w^e both belonged, broke in upon those
habits of intercourse ; but I hope and believe I may
flatter myself the feeling was mutual. For myself, at
least, I can most honestly say, that no change of circum-
stances — no difference of politics — no interruption to
our habits of hitercourse, even in the shghtest degree

* ]Mr. Windliam, who represented St. Mawes in 180G, died member for
Higham Ferrers in 1810.
f Afterwards Speaker ; the present Viscount Canterbury.

HOUSE OF COMMONS. 449

diminished the respect, the regard, and the affection I
most sincerely entertained for him.

This House can well appreciate the heavy loss we
have sustained in him, as a public man. In these times,
indeed in all times, so perfect a combination of com-
.manding talents, indefatigable industry, and stern
integrity, must be a severe public loss : but no man,
who has not had the happiness — the hkssing, I might
say, to have known him as a friend -, who has not
witnessed the many virtues and endearing qualities that
characterized him in the circle of his acquaintance, can
adequately conceive the irreparable chasm in private
life this lamentable event has made.

In my conscience I believe there never lived the man,
of whom it could more truly be said, that, whenever he
was found in public life, he was respected and admired
— whenever he was known in private life, he was most
affectionately beloved.

I will no longer try the patience of the House : I
was anxious, indeed, that they should bear with me for
a few moments, whilst I endeavoured, not to add my
tribute to the regard and veneration in which his
memory ought, and assuredly will be held ; but whilst I
endeavoured, however feebly, to discharge a debt of
gratitude, and do a justice to my own feelings.

Mr. Wynn'^ said, that his noble friend (Lord Mor-
peth,) and his right honourable friend who had last
spoken (Mr. M. Sutton,) had expressed themselves con-
cerning their departed friend with that feeling of affec-
tion and esteem which did them so much honour, and
which was heightened by their habits of intimacy, and
their opportunities of observing his character ; but the

* The Right Hon. Charles Williams Wynn.
38*

450 TRIBUTES.

virtues by which he was distinguished were not confined
within the circle of his acquaintance^ or concealed from,
the view of the world. Every one who saw Mr. Horner
had the means of judging of his temper, his mildness,
and his personal virtues ; for they were seen by all. He
carried with him to public life, and into the duties and
the business of his public station, all that gentleness of
disposition, all that amenity of feeling, which adorned
his private life, and endeared him to his private friends.
Amidst the heats and contests of the House, amidst the
vehemence of political discussion, amidst the greatest con-
flicts of opinion and opposition of judgment, he main-
tained the same mildness and serenity of disposition and
temper. No eagerness of debate, no warmth of feeling,
no enthusiasm for his own opinions, or conviction of the
errors of others, ever betrayed him into any uncandid
construction of motives, or any asperity towards the
conduct of his opponents. His loss was great, and would
long be regretted.

Sir Samuel Romilly said, that the long and most inti-
mate friendship which he had enjoyed with the honour-
able member, whose loss the House had to deplore,
might, he hoped, entitle him to the melancholy satisfac-
tion of saying a few words on this distressing occasion.
Though no person better knew, or more highly estimated,
the private virtues of Mr. Horner than himself, yet, as
he was not sure that he should be able to utter what he
felt on that subject, he would speak of him only as a
public man.

Of all the estimable qualities which distinguished his
character, he considered as the most valuable, that inde-
pendence of mind which in him was so remarkable. It
was from a consciousness of that independence, and from
a just sense of its importance, that, at the same time

HOUSE OF COMMONS. 45]^

that he was storing his mind with the most various
knowledge on all subjects connected with our internal
economy and foreign politics, and that he was taking a
conspicuous and most successful part in all the great
questions which have lately been discussed in Parlia-
ment, he laboriously devoted himself to all the painful
duties of his profession. Though his success at the bar
was not at all adequate to his merits, he yet steadfastly
persevered in his labours, and seemed to consider it as
essential to his independence that he should look for-
ward to his profession alone for the honours and emolu-
ments to which his extraordinary talents gave him so
just a claim.

In the course of the last twelve years the House had
lost some of the most considerable men that ever had
enlightened and adorned it : there was this, however,
peculiar in their present loss. When those great and
eminent men to whom he alluded were taken from them,
the House knew the whole extent of the loss it had
sustained, for they had arrived at the full maturity of
their great powers and endowments. But no person
could recollect — how in every year since his lamented
friend had first taken part in their debates, his talents
had been improving, his faculties had been developed,
and his commanding eloquence had been rising with the
important subjects on which it had been employed —
how every session he had spoken with still increasing
weight and authority and eftect, and had called forth
new resources of his enlightened and comprehensive
mind — and not be led to conjecture, that, notwithstand-
ing the great excellence which, in the last session, he
had attained, yet if he had been longer spared, he would
have discovered powers not yet discovered to the House,
and of which perhaps he was unconscious himself He

452 TRIBUTES.

should very ill express what he felt upon this occasion,
if he were to consider the extraordinary qualities which
Mr. Horner possessed apart from the ends and objects to
which they Avere directed. The greatest eloquence was
in itself only an object of vain and transient admira-
tion ; it was only when ennobled by the uses to which it
was applied, when directed to great and virtuous ends,
to the protection of the oppressed, to the enfranchise-
ment of the enslaved, to the extension of knowledge,
to dispelling the clouds of ignorance and superstition, to
the advancement of the best interests of the country,
and to enlarging the sphere of human happiness, that it
became a national benefit and a public blessing ; that it
was because the powerful talents, of which they were
now deprived, had been uniformly exerted in the pursuit
and promoting of such objects, that he considered the
loss which they had to lament as one of the greatest
which, in the present state of this country, it could pos-
sibly have sustained.

Mr. W. Elliot.* — Amongst his other friends. Sir, I
cannot refuse to myself the melancholy consolation of
paying my humble tribute of esteem and affection to the
memory of a person, of whose rich, cultivated, and en-
lightened mind I have so often profited, and whose ex-
quisite talents — whose ardent zeal for truth — whose
just, sedate, and discriminating judgment — whose forci-
ble, but chastened eloquence — and, above all, whose
inflexible virtue and integrity rendered him one of the
most distinguished members of this House, one of the
brightest ornaments of the profession to which he be-
longed, and held him forth as a finished model for the
imitation of the rising generation.

The full amount of such a loss, at such a conjuncture,

* The Right Hon. William Elliot. See Vol. H. p. 148.

HOUSE OF COMMONS. 453

and under all the various circumstances and considera-
tions of the case, I dare not attempt to estimate. My
learned friend (Sir S. Romilly) has well observed, that, if
the present loss be great, the future loss is greater : for,
by dispensations far above the reach of human scrutiny,
he has been taken from us at a period when he was only
in his progress towards those high stations in the state,
in which, so far as human foresight could discern, his
merits must have placed him, and which would have
given to his country the full and ripened benefits of his
rare and admirable qualities.

Mr. C. Grant f had known his lamented friend before
he had distinguished himself so much as he had subse-
quently done ; and could not be silent when such an
opportunity occurred of paying a tribute to his memory.
Whatever difference of opinion they might have on pub-
lic questions, he could suspend that difference to admire
his talents, his worth, and his virtues. It was not his
talents alone that were developed in his eloquence. His
eloquence displayed his heart : through it were seen his
high-minded probity, his philanthropy, his benevolence,
and all those qualities which not only exacted applause,
but excited love. It was the mind that appeared in
speeches that gave them character. He would not enter
into the account of his private life, although his private
virtues w^ere at least on a level with his public merits.
Amidst all the cares and interests of public life, he never
lost his relish for domestic society or his attachment to
his flimily. The last time that he (Mr. G.) conversed
with him, he was anticipating with pleasure the arrival
of a season of leisure, when he could spend a short time
in the bosom of his family, and amid the endearments of
his friends. When he looked at his public or private

t The present Lord Glenelg.

454 TRIBUTES.

conduct, his virtues, or his talents, he would be allowed
to have earned applause to which few other men ever
entitled themselves.

Lord Lascelles=== hoped to be excused for adding a few
words to what had been said, though he had not the
honour of a private acquaintance with Mr. Horner, whom
he knew only in this House, where they had almost uni-
formly voted on opposite sides on every great question.
Notwithstanding these differences, he had often said in
private, that Mr. Horner was one of the greatest orna-
ments of his country, and he would now say in public,
that the country could not have suffered a greater loss.
The forms of Parliament allowed no means of expressing
the collective opinion of the House on the honor due to
his memory ; but it must be consolatory to his friends
to see, that if it had been possible to have come to such
a vote, it would certainly have been unanimous.

These speeches in the House of Commons were
printed for private circulation. They were translated
into Italian by Ugo Foscolo, and a few copies of the
translation were also printed, to which M. Foscolo pre-
fixed the following dedication : —

" AL :\OBILE GIOVINETTO

ENRICO FOX,

FIGLIO DI LORD HOLLAND.

" So di mandarvi un dono che vi rinnovera amaro
neir anima il desiderio di Francesco Horner. Ma

* The late Earl of Harewood.

FRANCIS JEFFREY, ESQ. , 455

quanto e piu lunga e piu generosa, tanto h piii utile a
noi r afflizione per gli uomini egregj, i quali dopo d'
averci amati e istruiti, sanno beneficarci anche dalla lor
sepoltura. La morte non fu al tutto immatura per
esso ; non gli lascio meritare la invidia, la ingratitudine,
e la sazieta de' mortali ; e nol ritolse alia terra, ye non
quando ei s' era gia fatto degno die i suoi concittadini
ponessero molte speranze in lui solo. Or da che non v'
e concediito d' essere spettatore delle sue azioni, conteni-
platele nelle sue lodi. Potrete emularle, perclie vivete
in libera patria, e vedete le pubbliche virtii venerate
nella memoria del vostro zio, ed amate nel padre vostro :
e la Natura vi ha dotato d' indole si gentile, da non sen-
tirvi felice se non quando procaccierete fama a voi, ed
utile agli altri. Ricordatevi dell' amico rapito nel vigor
deir eta, ed affretatevi. E mentre voi, giovinetto, rical-
cando i vestigj di quel cittadino, salirete animoso per le
vie della vita, io stanco, e privo di patria, andro ripen-
sando al sicuro riposo e all' aniraa divina di quel mortale,
e non mi rincrescera di discenderle. Addio.

" Ugo Foscolo.

" Soho Square, 12 Maggio; 1817."

BY FRANCIS JEFFREY, ESQ.*

1. Extract from a letter to Mr. Wilkes of New York, dated March, 1817.

" The greatest calamity which the country has suf-
fered is in the loss of my admirable friend Horner. I
never looked for any other catastrophe -, but the ac-
counts which had come home very recently before had
excited great hopes in many of his friends ; I have not
known any death in my time which has occasioned so
deep and so general a regret, nor any instance in which

456 TRIBUTES.

there has been so warm and so hononrable a testimony
from men of all parties to the merits of a private indivi-
dual. Pray read the account of what passed in the
House on moving the new writ for his borough, and con-
fess that we are nobler, more fair and generous in our
political hostility, than any nation ever was before. It
is really quite impossible to estimate the loss which
the cause of liberal and practical opinions has sustained
by this death. That of Fox himself was less critical or
alarming, for there is no other person with such a union
of talent and character to succeed him. I for my part
have lost the kindest friend, and the most exalted model,
that ever any one had the happiness of possessing. This
blow has quite saddened all the little circle in which he
was the head, of which he has ever been the pride and
the ornament, but it is too painful to say more on such
a subject."

2. Extract from a letter to John Allen, Esq., dated 1-ith March, 1817.

" I could not write to you with any comfort during
the hurry of the session ; indeed, after the sad news of
Horner's death, I had not the heart to address any thing
to you either upon that or upon indifferent subjects.
On the former there is nothing new to be said. Strangers
have already said all that even friends could desire ; and
it seems enough to be one of the public to feel the full
weight of this calamity. What took place in Parliament
seems to me extremely honourable to the body ; nor do
I believe that there is or ever was, a great divided poli-
tical assembly where so generous and just a testimony
would have been borne unanimously to personal merit,
joined especially as it was in that individual, with a
stern and unaccommodating disdain of all sorts of base-

MR. DUGALD STEWART. 457

ness or falsehood. It is also a national trait, not less
honourable, I think, to all parties, that so great a part
of the eulogium of a public man, and in a public assem-
bly, should have been made to rest on his domestic
virtues and private affections."

BY MR. DUGALD STEWART.

In the second part of his " Dissertation on the Progress
of Metaphysical, Ethical, and Political Philosophy, since
the Revival of Letters in Europe," prefixed to the
seventh edition of the Encyclopasdia Britannica, edited
by Professor Napier, (note c. p. 236,) Mr. Stewart has
quoted the passage relating to Machiavel, in the letter
of Mr. Horner to Mrs. Stewart of the ITtli of Decem-
ber, 1816, beginning with the words " Pray tell Mr.
Stewart that there is a very remarkable letter of Ma-
chiavel's lately pubHshed, &c.," and has added the follow-
ing tribute to the memory of his departed friend : —

" The foregoing passage will be read by many with no
common interest, when it is known that it formed part
of a letter from the late Francis Horner, written a very
few weeks before his death. Independently of the satis-
faction I feel in preserving a memorial of his kind at-
tention to his friends, at a period when he was himself
an object of such anxious solicitude to his country, I was
eager to record the opinion of so perfect and accom-
plished a judge on a question which, for more than two
centuries, has divided the learned world ; and which,
his profound admiration of Machiavel's genius, combined
with the most unqualified detestation of Machiavel's
principles, had led him to study with peculiar care.

" The united tribute of respect already paid by Mr.

VOL. IL 39

458 TRIBUTES.

Horner's political friends and his political opponents, to
his short but brilliant and spotless career in public life,
renders all additional eulogies on his merits as a states-
man, equally feeble and superfluous. Of the extent
and variety of his learning, the depth and accuracy of
his scientific attainments, the classical (perhaps some-
what severe) purity of his taste, and the truly philosophi-
cal cast of his whole mind, none had better opportunities
than myself to form a judgment, in the course of a
friendship which commenced before he left the uni-
versity, and which grew till the moment of his death.
But on these rare endowments of his understanding, or
the still rarer combination of virtues wdiich shed over all
his mental gifts a characteristical grace and a moral har-
mony, this is not the proper place to enlarge. Never,
certainly, was more completely reahzed the ideal por-
trait so nobly imagined by the Roman poet : ' A calm
devotion to reason and justice, the sanctuary of the
heart undefiled, and a breast glowing with inborn
honour.'

' Compositum jus fasque animo, sanctosque recessus
Mentis, et incoctum generoso pectus honesto.' "

BY SIR JAMES MACKINTOSH.

In the Second Preliminary Dissertation prefixed to
the seventh edition of the Encyclopaedia, on the Pro-
gress of Ethical Philosophy during the Seventeenth and
Eighteenth Centuries, by Sir James Mackintosh, and in
the section on the writings of Dugald Stewart, (p. 386,)
the following passage occurs : —

" Perhaps few men ever lived, who poured into the
breasts of youth a more fervid and yet reasonable love

SIR JAMES MACKINTOSH. 459

of liberty, of truth, and of virtue. How many are still
alive, in different countries, and in every rank to which
education reaches, who, if thay accurately examined
their own minds and lives, would not ascribe much of
whatever goodness and happiness they possess, to the
early impressions of his gentle and persuasive eloquence !
He lived to see his disciples distinguished among the
lisrhts and ornaments of the council and the senate. He
had the consolation to be sure that no words of his pro-
moted the growth of an impure taste, of an exclusive
prejudice, of a malevolent passion. Without derogation
from his writings, it may be said that his disciples were
amono; his best works." He adds in a note — " As an
example of Mr. Stewart's school, may be mentioned
Francis Horner, a favourite pupil, and, till his last mo-
ment, an affectionate friend. The short life of this ex-
cellent person is worthy of serious contemplation, by
those more especially, who, in circumstances like his,
enter on the slippery path of public affairs. Without
the aids of birth or fortune, in an assembly where aris-
tocratical propensities prevail, — by his understanding,
industry, pure taste, and useful information, — still more
by modest independence, by steadiness and sincerity,
joined to moderation, — by the stamp of unbending in-
tegrity, and by the conscientious considerateness which
breathed through his well-chosen language, — he raised
himself, at the early age of thirty-six, to a moral aiif/io-
rity which, without these qualities, no brilliancy of
talents or power of reasoning, could have acquired. No
eminent speaker in Parliament owed so much of his suc-
cess to his moral character. His high place was there-
fore honourable to his audience and to his country.
Regret for his death was expressed with touching
unanimity from every part of a divided assembly, un-

4G0 TRIBUTES.

used to manifestations of sensibility, abhorrent from
theatrical display, and whose tribute, on such an occa-
sion, derived its peculiar value from their general cold-
ness and sluggishness. The tears of those to whom he
was unknown, were shed over him ; and at the head of
those by whom he was '^ praised, wept, and honoured/
was one, whose commendation would have been more
enhanced in the eye of Mr. Horner, by his discernment
and veracity, than by the signal proof of the concur-
rence of all orders, as well as parties, which was afforded
by the name of Howard."

BY THE REVEREND JOHN HEWLETT.*

It is stated in the first volume of these Memoirs, page
45, that a translation of Euler's Algebra was made by
Mr. Horner, w^hile he was under Mr. Hewlett's care. In
the preface to a new edition of the w^ork, published
after Mr. Horner's death, the affectionate preceptor pays
the following tribute to the memory of his pupil and
friend :

"The English nation will long remember, and ever
estimate, as they ought, his manlj^ eloquence in the
senate ; his lofty spirit of independence, which had no
mixture of pride or affectation ; his enlarged views and
inflexible integrity ; his vigilance and activity in the dis-
charge of public duties ; his fairness and liberality, his
temperance and firmness in debate ; his accurate, vari-
ous, and extensive knowledge ; the soundness of his
argumentation, and the sagacity with which he unveiled
deception, without coveting any triumph, or wishing to
inflict disgrace ; and his calm, but dignified opposition;

* See Vol. I. p. G.

IIEV. JOHN HEWLETT. 4G1

which often confuted the errors, and exposed the misap-
prehensions of his opponents ; but without ever provok-
ing resentment, or making an enemy.

" All these qualities, however rare, when united, it is
well known, he possessed ; and, on this subject, many
members on both sides of the House of Commons have
borne the most ample testimony : but those only who
enjoyed the happiness of being numbered among his
intimate friends, could form any adequate idea of the
uncommon afecUonatencss of his character ; his lasting,
disinterested, and sincere attachments ; his gentle, unas-
suming manners ; and his readiness, at all times, to do
good, and to relieve the distressed, without the slightest
tincture of vanity or ostentation. In the discharge of
his duties as a son and a brother, it is almost needless
to add, that his conduct was most exemplary.

" His loss as a public character will be long felt and
deplored ; and, in private life, it has produced a chasm
that can never be filled np. To have had some share
in directing the studies, cultivating the talents, and
forming the taste of such a man, will always be to me a
source of the greatest satisfaction. That he should have
fallen a victim to lingering disease, in the prime of man-
hood, and before he had reached the meridian of his
brilliant and useful career, is truly deplorable ; yet we
should be thankful for what we once possessed. He is
indeed gone; 'but though dead he still liveth.' All
regret for his premature death is vain ; and it should be
remembered, that humble resignation to the Divine Will
is one of the first duties of every human being.

" His saltern accumulem donis, et fungar inani
Munere."

39*

462 TRIBUTES.

BY THE REV. DR. PARR.
Letter from Dr. Parr to Mr. L. Horner.

Dear Mr. Hornerj Hatton, 25th July, i8i7.

I would not venture to answer your polite and
candid letter, till I could have the aid of a scribe who
writes more legibly than myself. The oldest of your
late brother's friends, the nearest of his relations, the
warmest of his admirers cannot hold a higher opinion
than I do of his attainments, talents, and virtues. I
thought his knowledge various, correct, and ready for
use. In his language, he united the precision of a phi-
losopher with the elegance of a scholar. He had cheer-
fulness without levity, and seriousness without austerity.
He was sincere in his principles and steady in his attach-
ments. But his manners were mild, his temper w^as
benevolent, and, with a becoming zeal in the support of
his own opinions, he was perfectly exempt from intole-
rance to those who thought differently from himself.

In truth, dear Sir, I have rarely seen so many amiable
and so many respectable qualities blended together in
the same mind, and each giving additional lustre to the
operations of the other. One decisive proof of the in-
tellectual and moral discipline which distinguished him,
was to be found in the phraseology and the spirit with
which he often spoke of Scottish learning, and Scottish
science. He never depreciated nor exaggerated the merits
of either ; and in commending the excellencies of English
writers, there was a promptness, and there was a sincerity,
and there was an ardour, which I have not often perceived
in his countrymen. Such magnanimity was worthy of his
most enlightened mind and uncorrupted heart ; and per-

REV. SYDNEY SMITH. 463

mit me to add, that the praise which I now unfeignedly
bestow upon Mr. Horner, is, for the same reason, and in
the same extent, to be given to our common friend, Mr.
Dugald Stewart. You know very well the disgust and
the displeasure which I feel for that scantiness of com-
mendation which Englishmen grant to their northern
neiofhbours.

We live in an age when every studious and well-in-
formed man should lift up his voice against national
prejudices, where they would lead us to undervalue the
improvements of the human understanding.
I have the honour to be, dear Sir,

Your faithful wellwisher, and

respectful, obedient servant,

Samuel Parr.

BY THE REV. SYDNEY SMITH.
Letter from Mr. Smith to Mr. L. Ilorncr.
My dear Sir Combe Florey, 2GtIi August, 1842. '

You desire me to commit to paper my recollec-
tions of your brother, Francis Horner. I think that the
many years which have elapsed since his death, have
not at all impaired my memory of his virtues, at the
same time that they have afforded me more ample
means of comparing him with other important human
beings with whom I have become acquainted since that
period.

I first made the acquaintance of Francis Horner at
Edinburgh, where he was among the most conspicuous
young men in that energetic, and infragrant city. My
desire to know him, proceeded first of all from being
cautioned against him by some excellent and feeble peo-

4G4 TKIBUTES.

pie to whom I had brought letters of introduction, and
who represented him to me as a person of violent politi-
cal opinions ; I interpreted this to mean a person who
thought for himself — who had firmness enough to take
his own line in life, and who loved truth better than he
loved Dundas, at that time the tyrant of Scotland. I
found my interpretation to be just, and from thence till
the period of his death, w^e lived in constant society,
and friendship with each other.

There was something very remarkable in his counte-
nance — the commandments were written on his face,
and I have often told him there was not a crime he might
not commit with impunity, as no judge or jury who saw
him, would give the smallest degree of credit to any
evidence against him : there was in his look a calm set-
tled love of all that was honourable and good — an air
of wisdom and of sweetness ; you saw at once that he
was a great man, whom nature had intended for a leader
of human beings ; you ranged yourself willingly under
his banners, and cheerfully submitted to his sway.

He had an intense love of knowledge ; he wasted very
little of the portion of life conceded to him, and was
always improving himself, not in the most foolish of all
schemes of education, in making long and short verses
and scanning Greek choruses, but in the masculine pur-
suits of the pliilosophy of legislation, of political econ-
omy, of the constitutional history of the country, and
of the history and changes of Ancient and Modern
Europe. He had read so much, and so well, that he was
a contemporary of all men, and a citizen of all states.

I never saw any person who took such a lively interest
in the daily happiness of his friends. If you were un-
well, if there was a sick child in the nursery, if any death
happened in your family, he never forgot you for an

REV. SYDNEY SMITH. 405

instant ! You always found there was a man with a
good heart who was never far from you.

He loved truth so much, that he never could bear any
jesting upon important subjects. I remember one eve-
ning the late Lord Dudley and myself pretended to jus-
tify the conduct of the government in stealing the
Danish fleet; we carried on the argument with some
wickedness against our graver friend ; he could not
stand it, but bolted indignantly out of the room ; we
flung up the sash, and, with loud peals of laughter, pro-
fessed ourselves decided Scandinavians ; we offered him
not only the ships, but all the shot, powder, cordage, and
even the biscuit, if he would come back : but nothing
could turn him ; he went home ; and it took us a fort-
night of serious behaviour before we were forgiven.

Francis Horner was a very modest person, which men
of great understanding seldom are. It was his habit to
confirm his opinion by the opinions of others : and often
to form them from the same source.

His success in the House of Commons was decided
and immediate, and went on increasing to the last day
of his life. Though put into Parliament by some of the
Great Borough Lords, every one saw that he represented
his own real opinions : without hereditary wealth, and
known as a writer in the Edinburgh Review, his inde-
pendence was never questioned : his integrity, sincerity,
and moderation, were acknowledged by all sides, and
respected even by those impudent assassins who live only
to discourage honesty and traduce virtue. The House
of Commons, as a near relation of mine once observed,
has more good taste than any man in it. Horner, from
his manners, his ability, and his integrity, became a gen-
eral favourite with the House ; they suspended for him
their habitual dislike of lawyers, of political adventurers,

466 TRIBUTES.

and of young men of conseederdble taalents from the
North.

Your brother was wholly without pretensions or affec-
tation. I have lived a long time in Scotland, and have
seen very few affected Scotchmen ; of those few he cer-
tainly was not one. In the ordinary course of life, he
never bestowed a thought upon the effect he was pro-
ducing; he trusted to his own good nature, and good
intention-, and left the rest to chance.

Having known him well before he had acquired a
great London reputation, I never observed that his fame
produced the slightest alteration in his deportment : he
was as affable to me, and to all his old friends, as when
we were debating metaphysics in a garret in Edinburgh.
I don't think it was in the power of ermine or mace, or
seals, or lawn, or lace, or of any of those emblems and
ornaments with which power loves to decorate itself, to
have destroyed the simplicity of his character. I believe
it would have defied all the corrupting appellations of
human vanity : Serene, Honourable, Right Honourable,
Sacred, Reverend, Right Reverend, Lord High, Earl,
Marquis, Lord Mayor, Your Grace, Your Honour, and
every other vocable which folly has invented and idola-
try cherished, would all have been lavished on him in
vain.

The character of his understanding was the exercise
of vigorous reasoning, in pursuit of important and
difficult truth. He had no wit ; nor did he condescend
to that inferior variety of this electric talent which pre-
vails occasionally in the north, and which, under the
name of Wid, is so infinitely distressing to persons of
good taste : he had no very ardent and poetical imagina-
tion, but he had that innate force, which,

KEV. SYDNEY SMITH. 4^7

Qucmvis pcrferrc laborcm

Suasit, ct induxit noctes vigilarc sercnas
Qiuirenteni dictis (^uibus, et (jiio carmine doiuum
Clara suim possit praipanderc luniina mentl.

Your late excellent father, though a very well informed
person, was not what would be called a literary man, and
you will readily concede to me that none of his family
would pretend to rival your brother in point of talents.
I never saw more constant and high principled attention
to parents than in his instance ; more habitual and re-
spectful deference to their opinions and wishes. I never
saw brothers and sisters, over whom he might have
assumed a family sovereignty, treated with more cheer-
ful, and endearing equality. I mention these things,
because men who do good things are so much more
valuable than those who say wise ones; because the
order of human excellence is so often inverted, and
great talents considered as an excuse for the absence of
obscure virtues.

Francis Horner was always very guarded in his politi-
cal opinions ; guarded I mean against the excesses into
which so many young men of talents were betrayed by
their admiration of the French revolution. He was an
English whig, and no more than an English whig. He
mourned sincerely over the crimes, and madness of
France, and never for a single moment surrendered his
understanding to the novelty and nonsense which
infested the world at that strange a3ra of human aftairs.

I remember the death of many eminent Englishmen,
but I can safely say, I never remember an impression
so general as that excited by the death of Francis Hor-
ner. The public looked upon him as a powerful and
safe man, who was labouring not for himself or his party,

4G8 TRIBUTES.

but for them. They were convinced of his talents, they
confided in his moderation, and they were sure of his
motives ; he had improved so quickly, and so much, that
his early death was looked on as the destruction of a
great statesman, who had done but a small part of the
good which might be expected from him, who would
infallibly have risen to the highest offices, and as infalli-
bly have filled them to the public good. Then as he
had never lost a friend, and made so few enemies, there
was no friction, no drawback ; public feeling had its free
course ; the image of a good and great man was broadly
before the world, unsullied by any breath of hatred ;
there was nothing but pure sorrow ! Youth destroyed
before its time, great talents and wisdom hurried to the
grave, a kind and good man, who might have lived for
the glory of England, torn from us in the flower of his
life ! — but all this is gone and past, and, as Galileo said
of his lost sight, " It has pleased God it should be so,
and it must please me also."

Ever truly yours,

Sydney Smith.

BY LORD DUDLEY.'^

Extract from a letter to Mr. Ticjlie.

" At Leghorn I visited the tomb of poor Horner. He
was by far the best and wisest man with whose friend-
ship I ever was honoured ; my experience does not teach
me that the qualities of the heart and understanding
are often united ; men of great abilities are apt to be
vicious, and very hard-hearted ; an affectionate disposi-
tion and a faithful discharge of all the duties of life,

MOXUMENT IN WESTMINSTER ABHIA'. 4G9

great and small, are chiefly to be looked for in a certain
mediocrity of talent, but Horner was as kind and amia-
ble, as if he had been quite undistinguished ; he did not
take advantage of his talents and fiime, to be excused
from the practice of iiny virtue."

BY THE SPECULATIVE SOCIETV OF EDINBURGH.

On the 25th of March, 1817, it was resolved, "That
to express and perpetuate the respect of the Society' for
the memory of Francis Horner, Esq. a member of tliis
Society, a portrait of Mr. Horner be procured, to be
hung up in the Society's Hall, with an appropriate in-
scription."

A copy was made by Sir Henry Raeburn of the por-
trait he had painted for Mr. L. Horner in 1812, and
from which the engraving that forms the frontispiece of
Vol. I. is taken. It was placed in the Hall of the Society,
in the College of Edinburgh, with the following inscrip-
tion :

"placed in the year 1820

liV THE

speculative society

in honour of

FRANCIS HORNER, ESQ. INI. V.

FIRST THE ORNAMENT OF THIS INSTITUTION,
AND THEN OF HIS COUNTRY'."

MONUMENT IN WESTMINSTER ABCEV.

The beautiful marble statue of Mr. Horner, which
forms a conspicuous object in the north transept of the
abbey, was placed there under the direction of A^iscount

VOL. II. 40

470 TRIBUTES.

Morpetli, the Mar [ui? of Lansdowne, Lord Holland,
Lord Auckland, and the Honourable James Abercromby.
The names of the Subscribers are given in the Appen-
dix (G). It was executed by Sir Francis Chantrey, and
is considered to be one of his most successful productions.
The following is the inscription on the pedestal :

" TO THE MEMORY OF

FRANCIS HORNER, •

■VVIIO, BY THE UKIOX OF G1!EAT AND VARIOUS ACQUIREMENTS

WITH INFI.EXinLE INTEGRITY AND UNWEARIED DEVOTION'

TO THE INTERESTS OF THE COUNTRY,

RAISED HIMSELF TO AN EMINENT STATION IN SOCIETY,

AND WAS JUSTLY CONSIDERED TO BE ONE OF THE

MOST DISTINGUISHED MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.

HE AVAS BORN AT EDINBURGH IN 1778,

AVAS CALLED TO THE BAR, BOTH OF ENGLAND AND SCOTLAND,

AND CLOSED HIS SHORT BUT USEFUL LIFE AT PISA IN 1817.

HIS DEATH AVAS DEEl'LA' FELT

AND PUBLICKLA: deplored in PARLIAMENT.

HIS AFFECTIONATE FRIENDS AND SINCERE AD.AIIRERS,

ANXIOUS THAT SOAIE MEMORIAL SHOULD EXIST

OF MERITS UNIA'ERSALLi: ACKNOWLEDGED,

OF EXPECTATIONS WHICH A PREMATURE DEATH

COULD ALONE IIAA'E FRUSTRATED, ERECTED THIS MONU.MENT,

A, D. 1823."

MONUMENT AT LEGHORN.

A marble monument, erected by his Father, covers
Mr. Horner's grave in the Protestant Cemetery at Leg-
horn. It was designed by Sir Henry C. Englefield,
Baronet ; and at one of the ends there is a likeness of
Mr. Horner, in relief, the size of life, which was executed
bv Sir Francis Chantrey.

MONUMENT AT LKOIIOllN.

471

On one of the skies there is the following inscrip-
tion :

^'FRANCISCUS HORNER,

SENATOll 15UITAXNICUS ;
NAT. 1:DIMUR(;I PUID. id. AUG. MOCCI.XXVllI,

(»n. I'lsis VI. ID. rKHurAK. mdcccwu.

I'LBLK !■;
CO.NSI'K li:i!ANTUH KNGEMl'M EJUS KXCKL.SUM,
FIDKS IXTKMEKATA:

I'KIVATIM,

FILIUS, FKATEH, AMICUS,

PIUS, AMAXS, SIXCERUS.

HOC MONUMEXTIM

MEMOltEE TALIS XATI

SACRAVIT PATER."

APPENDIX.

40*

APPENDIX D. (Page 408.)

NOTES ON DANTE.

When we landed at Leghorn, where we remained only a
few hours, my brother sent for a bookseller's catalogue, and
bought a copy of Dante. It was the edition in four volumes
8vo., by Poggiali, Livorno, 1807 ; and it was this copy he
used in the " study of Dante," of which he speaks in his letter
to Lady Holland of the 13th of December. He made some-
what copious notes on the " Inferno ; " and these I recently
showed to my friend Mr. Herman Merivale, of whose familiar
acquaintance with the works of the great poet I was aware.
The impression which the perusal of them made upon him he
has, at my request, described in the following letter : —

Mv dear Sir Regent's rark, February 13, 1843.

I am much obliged for the opportunity which you have
given me of looking over the records of Mr. Horner's first im-
pressions while studying the great poem of Dante, and en-
joying the pleasure of travelling again over that favourite
ground in the company of a critic of so much taste and
acuteness.

I had understood from you that Mr. Horner only took up
this pursuit during leisure hours in his visit to Italy, and
under the pressure of his last fatal illness. Of course, there-
fore, I did not expect to find him conversant with the " Com-
media" after the fashion of Italian scholars, who make it a
study of years, and seem often to become so exclusively
Dantesquc in their mode of regarding the poet, that they
never judge him at all by ordinary rules, and illustrate him, as
Scripture is illustrated, only on a system of concordances. I
do not know from what source he derived the conjecture as
to the allegorical meaning of the Wolf in the first canto :
if original, it was a curious anticipation on his part of the

47G APPENDIX D.

doctrines which Professor Rosetti has since set forth with
such abundance of ingenuity. But, with this exception, I do
not perceive that he troubled himself with the inner meaning
or meanings of the poem, more than a casual reader for the
first time may be expected to do. And it is plain enough
that he noted down his observations as he read, and did not
revise them. For example, I do not think that he would have
expressed himself as he has done in a note on canto 10, re-
specting Dante's want of philosophical sentiment on general
human aftairs, if he had then read the " Purgatorio" and
" Paradiso," and am very certain that he would not have ac-
cused him, a little farther on, of deficiency in love of country,
in the modern or classical sense of the phrase, when he had
got as far as the 15th canto of the latter cantica. It was not,
however, as an exercise on Dante that these remarks have
chiefly interested me; but from the illustrations they afford of
the taste and genius of the writer himself, — of the manner in
which the principal characteristics of the Italian poet struck
him on the first reading, coming to the task with little or no
especial preparation, but with a mind full of literary wealth, a
strong sense of beauty of style, and an acute and practised
•critical discernment. Nothing can be happier than his appre-
ciation of some of the peculiar beauties of Dante's style. I
have an hundred times read the remark, that he is the most
picturesque of poets ; but I do not know when I have seen
the meaning of the phrase so well explained, or the trick of
Dante's pictures, if I may use the phrase, so neatly described,
as in the following passage : —

" This is an instance (I have passed by many much finer)
of the talent which this poet possessed of placing before the
very eye of the reader the object he represents. In point of
execution, the success of such passages greatly depends on a
well ordered conciseness ; for a difference in the relative posi-
tion of two words, and the use or omission of some very ordi-
nary phrase, may make the whole obscure or bright as a pic-
ture. All great writers, indeed, must possess this graphical
powder, or they fail in an essential part of writing; but their
manner varies : some erring by having aimed at brevity, and

NOTES ON DANTE. 477

forcing the parts of their description too close upon one
another; others, by aiming at a prolongation of the eftect by
a succession of pictures running into one another, like the
circle of a panorama. Both fail to give their reader, if I may
say so, a point of sight : the former seems confused and ob-
scure ; the latter becomes weak, lax, and obscure too. A
selection of instances, not only perfect ones, but of some that
are defective both ways, taken from the best classics of dif-
ferent languages, and accompanied with a criticism in search
of what this defect or excellence turns on, would be a useful
exercise for the student who made it. . . . One cause of the
vividness of Dante's pictures is, I think, that lie generallij
chooses one inoment of time, and rarely attempts to represent
successive actions."

Another instance (to my mind) of the same intuitive cor-
rectness of judgment occurs in the comparison of Dante with
Tacitus, the only ancient writer of whom Mr. Horner found
himself in the least degree reminded by the subject of his new
studies. It is plain that the rhetorical excellences of the poet
are those which impressed him most ; and I think Lord
Brougham says, that the study of Dante formed an important
part of his own discipline as an orator. I am struck, too,
with the evident preference with which he, fresh from the po-
litical excitement of English state commotions, fixes on the
magnificent episode of Farinata degli Uberti : for in Dante,
as in Shakspeare, every man selects by instinct that which
assimilates with the course of his own previous occupation
and interests. As to Mr. Horner's criticisms on the defects of
taste and style which pervade the " Commedia," I believe
that in these days, when it is the fashion to view the poet
through a medium of transcendentalism, such criticisms are
considered a kind of leze-majesty, as much as in the case of
Shakspeare aforesaid : but I am not ashamed to confess that
all my affection for him does not save me from feeling often
oppressed under the

"In eterno faticoso maiito''

of far-fetched extravagance, in which so much of his nobler
thought is enveloped.

478 APPENDIX D.

One thing only I was sorry to meet with : I mean the de-
preciation of the " Purgatorio." I fancy it is not uncommon
on a first reading to regard it as much less interesting than
the first division ; but not, I should have imagined, with one
of Mr. Horner's taste and feeling. But am I wrong in sus-
pecting that the gradual depression of long illness acted in
tiiis instance on his judgment, rendering him averse from that
steady and minute attention, that labour of love, by which
■alone the deep-seated beauties of this part of the poem are to
be reached? Certainly, of all undertakings, I should have
thought the first perusal of Dante least calculated for the
relaxation of a sick chamber, and that of a man in the full
tide of life, whose heart must have been wrapt up in interests
of a far more stirring character. I never knew the Florentine
heartily studied, except when taken up in youth, while there
are yet time and energy to spare, and with no call on the
mind to husband its resources ; but, when once mastered,
what a mine of wealth to resort to in after days! The more
reason (though of all men I ought least to say so to yourself)
for regretting a little the rabbia Tedesca, which seems to have
invaded our education of late years to such an extent as to
have thrown the great Italian masters somewhat in the back-
ground.

Believe me, with many thanks.
Very sincerely yours,

Herman Merivale.

MANUSCRIPT BOOK.

470

APPENDIX E. (Page 433.)

MANUSCRIPT BOOK

Begun within six days of Mr. Horner's Death. On the first
page is written, '• Designs, at Pisa, 2d February, 1817,
under the auspices of opium and returning spring."

CONTENTS.

A. Designs.

a. Theory of Jurisprudence 1

b. Hints for a History - 23

]>. Political Preparations

and Discipline.

a. Character of our own Times 43

h. Political Books - - Gl

c. Questions :

1. ForeiiTn Politics - - 63

2. Ami)" - - - CD

3. Catholics - - - 71

4. Currency - - - 73

5. Funds - - - 79

6. Trade and Economy - 83

V.WV.

7. Poor Laws

- 8!)

8. Parliamentary Reform

9. Church - ' -

- 97

10. West India Slaves

- 101

11. Ileforms in the Law

- 105

C. Classical Studies.

Languages

- 113

English ^irammar

- iir.

English Composition

- 117

List of Classics

D. Detached Subjects for

- I'il

Studi/ - ' -

- 125

E. Detached Sidy eels for

Comp)osition

- 129j

These several subjects form titles to the pages of the book,
as indicated in this Table of Contents, and under several of
them Mr. Horner had written a few notes relating to that par-
ticular branch of his plan of study. The most complete are
the following: —

{Page 1.) A. Phil Designs.

a. Arrangement of the general principles of justice, and
theory of laws.

b. Views set down, as hints for a general history of our
own times ; L e. from the accession of (;}eorge HI. in England,
to the close, when it may be, of the events which have grown,
out of the French Revolution.

480 APPENDIX E.

A. a. " Theory of Laws'""

1. Of the principles that ought to regulate the constitution
of courts of justice.

2. Of the foundation of the voluntary law of nations in
the natural principles of justice.

A. a. Theory of Justice.

Solon is said to have been the first inventor of the Atlantic
fable, and to have written an idea of a perfect republic under
that title. It was probably the philosophical romance of his
youth. But it is remarkable that an Utopia should have been
composed by the author of the famous maxim, which is
ascribed to him, which limits to actual existing circumstances
the aim of the legislative reformer.

The line which separates criminal from civil jurisprudence,
is perhaps not to be marked by any more fixed principle or
permanent distinctidn, than the conveniency of treating some
of the injuries that may be done to individuals as so import-
ant, that the public ought to take up the injury into their own
hands, make a common cause of it, and consider retribution
to the injured individual as less to be thought of than the
punishment of the wrong-doer. The prevention of such inju-
ries in future, by the terror of punishment, is the object of
criminal law; that of civil justice, retribution to the person
injured out of the means and substance of the wrong-doer.
This conveniency, that is, the sort of injuries which will be
included by such a line, and marked out for the objects of
criminal law, will vary in different conditions of society: the
history of criminal law from rude times is in general a pro-
gressive increase in the number of objects so selected.

{Page 23.) A. b. History.

As a subject of history, the period would admit of immense
variety, both in point of narration, and for the principles of

DESIGNS. 481

politics that would be illustrated by the events. If treated as
an English history, there is scarcely a constitutional question
which would not come in by way of narrative. The true
principles of political innovation, and of political liberty,
would unavoidably be the moral of the work. The comple-
tion of the American Revolution, the formation of our East
Indian empire, and our maxims there, Grattan's Irish Revolu-
tion in 1782, the origin and termination of the slave trade
question, the origin and progress of the Catholic question, of
the question of parliamentary reform, the excesses of the
funding system.

The Spanish war, the Russian campaign; — the characters
of Washington, Fox, —

The remarkable state of Europe on the eve of the French
Revolution, after the interval of peace from 1783.

{Page 43.) B. PoUtical Preparations and Exercise.

a. Spirit of the times, and character of passing events. (In
part coincides with A. h.)

b. Works to be studied, with an eye to present times and
circumstances.

c. Series of questions for discussion and practical adjust-
ment in our politics.

B. a. Times.

Effect of war in throwing discredit upon political economv
Revival of such speculations on the return of peace, when
men's minds are engaged in the repair of the disorders caused
by war. This over Europe now.

War throws discredit upon all sober speculations of trade,
by bringing into activity a new race oi practical men.

(Page 61.) B. b. Books.

Aristotle's Politics. The Lettres Persanes, and Grandeur
des Romains. De Retz. Cicero's Familiar Letters.
VOL. II. 41

482 APPENDIX E.

(Page 63.) B. c. Questions. House of Conunons.

1. Principles and views of foreign politics.

2. Standing army.

3. Catholic claims.

4. Currency.

5. Sinking fund and debt.

6. Policy for England, in present circumstances, with regard
to trade, shipping, manufactures, and husbandry.

7. Poor laws, and state of the labouring orders.

8. Parliamentary reform.

9. Clergy residence, and progress of the fanatics.

10. Slaves in West Indies.

11. Reforms in the law.

{Page 71.) B. c. 3. Catholic Claims.

Lord Eldon's position, that the State is essentially Pro-
testant.

To reconcile Catholic Emancipation with the views and
principles of the Whigs at the Revolution.

(Page 79.) B. c. 5. Sinking Fund, Debt, and Revenue.

Wm. Sm.'s (William Smith) language in last session about
funds, and Dick's prejudices about stockholders and landhold-
ers. Multitude, and various classes of persons, throughout
England, who hold property in the funds ; in very small sums.
Alarm.

{Page 91.) B. c. 8. Parliamentary Reform.

In such a country, two contending prejudices generally at
work ; each has its fits of greater violence occasionally, Avhich
brings about a re-action of the other; a passion for novelties
for the sake of improvement, and zeal against innovation.
Their conflict insures discussion. The stability of our institu-

DESIGNS. 483

tions founded upon the improvements which work themselves
out mature, from such conflict and discussion.

{Paffc 105.) B. c. 11. Reforms in the Laiu.

Insolvent debtors.

Extents in aid.

Gaol delivery in corporations.

Judgments on misdemeanour at nisi pr ins.

Statute of stabbing.

Statute of William, for treason trials, to Ireland.

{Page 113.) C. Course of Critical Studies to he pursued; ivith
Vlcivs bearing' iqjon A. and B.

a. Exact knowledge of the languages I already read.
h. More critical knowledge of the grammatical proprieties
of English.

c. Studies in English composition.

d. Classical authors to be familiarly acquainted with.

{Page 111.) C. c. Composition.

Collect in standard authors those turns of common expres-
sion, wdiich constitute the permanent, unvarying body of
English idiom : works, in which to collect these, — the Bible,
Shakspeare, Clarendon, Tillotson, Addison's Spectators, Dry-
den, Pope.

1. Recent authors, from whose writings some knowledge of
the appropriate idioms of English phraseology may be gleaned,
but with more danger of mistaking temporary fashion for per-
manent modes : —

Blackstone, but not in his shew passages; Soame Jenyns ;
Uvedale Price; Abram Tucker; White of Selborne ; Sir J.
Reynolds ; Cowpcr's Letters, and Lady Mary's ; George
Ellis.

2. The rhythm of English prose ; to adjust it to the sense.

484 APPENDIX E.

as well as to the sentiment. Of the former, very few ex-
anijDles to be produced ; and those only in detached pas-
sages : —

Shaftesbury ; Essay on Virtue; very harmonious, but the
melody rather set to the sentiment of the work, than adjusted
to the variations of argument and meaning. But examine it
in detail.

Boling'broke ; various.

Middleton; aims at a Latin tune.

Junius ; some fine instances. But in that tone of sentiment,
the rhythm suggested by the sentiment more easily adjusts
itself to the sense.

Johnson; in The Rambler, no adjustment; the rhythm dic-
tates what is said. In his greater works, some excellent
instances. No ear for varied harmony.

{Page 121.) C. d. Classics.

1. Poets to be habitually studied, the principles of their
works to be thoroughly examined : —

Iliad and Odyssey; tragedies of Euripides; Virgil, both
works ; Ovid, the Metamorphoses ; Dante, Inferno ; Ariosto,
Orlando Furioso ; E-acine, Moliere, Shakspeare, Milton.

2. Historians. — Xenophon, Thucydides, Polybius, Tacitus,
Sallust, CsBsar, Livy, Guicciardini, Sarpi, Davila, Machiavel,
Hume.

3. For the resources of rhetoric, or for the power of diction
and expression in their respective languages — Demosthenes,
Plato, Cicero, Rousseau, Massillon, Bossuet.

The orations of Demosthenes and Cicero especially.

4. 3IoraIists, and masters in the art of thinking: — Lord
Bacon's logical writings; Cicero's philosophical dialogues;
Aristotle's Ethics and Poetics ; Epictetus, Antoninus, and
the other remains of the Stoics; Sir J. Reynolds's Discourses;
Addison's Spectators ; Smith's Theory of Moral Sentiments ;
Dugald Stewart's works ; Plutarch ; Butler's Analogy ; Paley's
Natural Theology ; and Hume's Dialogues.

DESIGNS. 485

(Pag-c 125.) D. Detached Subjects for Inquiry and Study.

1. Books for the history of opinions: — CudivortlCs Intellec-
tual System ; Beaiisobre, Histoire des Manichdes ; Plutarch's
Morals.

2. Aristotle's Politics, compared with Machiavel's Dis-
courses, as a digest of the principles and sentiments of
their respective times. The notions of political justice and
public morality, current among the small republics of Greece,
compared with those of the Italians in their similar circum-
stances.

3. Plato's Style.

4. Of the exact adjustment of the rhythm of composition
to the sense as it runs and varies, as well as to the character
of the subject. Different great masters of writing examined
in respect of this quality of composition. Conclusions with
reference to English prose.

5. To read over all the Orations of Cicero, critically ; and
afterwards run over RoUin's Quintilian, for the particular
study of the passages to which he refers.

{Page 129.) E. Detached Subjects for Composition.

1. An introduction to the art of reasoning, for the use of
students.

2. A translation, into pure English, of the best parts of
Aristotle's Politics.

3. Of the dialects of a cultivated language.

41*

486 APPENDIX F.

APPENDIX F. (Page 434.)

RESULTAT De' LA SECTION DU CADAYRE DU FEU M. FRANCOIS

HORNER.

Son corps n'etait pas tres maigre, et sa peau, surtout celle
de la face, avait une teiiite plombde ; aux extremites des
doigts elle etait noire.

L'ouverture du bas ventre fit voir tous les visceres et organes
contenus dans cette cavite .parfaitement sains ; on remarqua
seulement le systeme veneux gorge de sang.

La section de la poitrine laissa voir les poumons singu-
lierement rapetisses, et particulierement le poumon droit.
Leur couleur etait livide, et leur superficie tres inegale : cette
inegalitd naissait d'un tres grand nombre de corps blancs,
transparens, de forme et de volume tres inegal; les plus petits
ctaient comme des lentilles, les plus gros commedes amandes.
De ces corps on en voy ait beaucoup a la face anterieure des
poumons, peu a la face posterieure. Ces corps etaient de
petits vesicules reraplis d'air ; sous la compression elles dis-
paraissaient, et Pair passait dans les bronches ; elles reparais-
saient, si on poussait de Fair dans la trachde-artere. Ces ves-
sies n'avaient aucune communication avec le tissu cellulaire,
qui unit les cellules adriennes entre elles, de maniere qu'il ne
s'agissait pas d'emphyseme, mais de dilatation morbifique des
cellules aeriennes.

Une grande partie de la substance pulmonairc, et speciale-
ment la partie posterieure de ces organes etait condensde,
durcie, et, dans beaucoup de points, entierement hepatisee.
Les lobes des poumons n etaient pas adherents entre eux; il
n'y avait pas d'adherences entre les poumons et la pleure.
Les glandcs lympliatiques des bronches (Etaient plus volumi-
neuses qu'a Tordinaire, la membrane des bronches legerement
engorgde.

POST-MORTEM EXAMINATION. 487

Lc pericarde dtait sain; entre cette membrane ct le cocur il
y avait une petite quantit<} de sdrosite. Le coeur dtait extrcnrie-
mcnt fiasque, et se laissait facilemcnt decliirer par les doigts.
L'oreillctte droitc 6tmt tres dilatee, et remplie de sang. Le
ventricule correspondant avait des parois tres amincics, et
c'dtait spdcialement dans les parois de ce ventricule que I'on
pouvait rdmarquer le peu de tdnacite de la substance muscu-
laire que nous avons not6 plus liaut. Ce ventricule dtait
rempli d'une substance blanche, assez compacte, fibreuse, forte-
mcnt adherente aux colonnes musculaires du ventricule. Cette
substance etait probablement de la lymphe plastique, formee
dans les derniers moments de la vie.

Les deux autres cavitcs du ccrur nc presenterent rien de par-
ticulier.

Baillie (Anatomic Pathologique, cli, iv. sect. vi. et suiv.) et
Lieutaud (Historia Antomica-Medica) rapportent quelques
excmples d'affections pathologiques, qui ont des rapports avec
ccllc que nous avons dc'crite ; mais je n^en trouve pas une, ou
Ton ait remarqu6 dans le meme individu le rapotissement des
poumons, la dilatation d'une partie des cellules aeriennes,
I'hdpatisation d'une grande partie des poumons, et Tatlection
du coeur.

(Signed) Doctfar Vacca Bkrlinghieri.

Pisa, le 12 Fe'vrier, 1817.

Remarks hij Dr. PrUidin Warren on the aborr, in a Letter to
John Alfen, Esquire.

Dear Sir 31, Lower r.mok street, 5th MaiTh, ISir.

I have shown VaccVs account to Dr. Baillie, who con-
siders the case as exhibiting a very unusual form of disease,
and one which is evidently o^t of the reach of medicine.
The state of the heart presented no unusual appearances; the
flaccidity and tender structure of its fibres being met with
very frequ^ently in individuals whose constitutional powers
have failed by slow decay: the appearance within the right
ventricle was a coagulum of blood, not unconimonly found

488 APPENDIX F.

in that situation after death. The condensation of the lung
is also not unfrequently met with, and justifies the opinion
which Dr. Baillie held to you of such an alteration of struc-
ture being the probable cause of Mr. Horner's difficulty of
breathing, which was never attributed to water in the chest,
but to an obstruction of the circulation of the blood through
the lungs, arising from some cause not easily distinguishable.
The enlargement of the air cells to the extent mentioned by
Dr. Vacca is a disorder so rare, that there are only three in-
stances to be found in the anatomical collections with which
Dr. Baillie is acquainted. The immediate cause of death
appears to have been owing to the increase of the obstruction
of the lungs to such an extent, as to have prevented the free
passage of the blood through the branches of the pulmonary
artery, by which the right side of the heart became gradually
gorged with blood, and its action was slowly suspended.

Yours faithfully,

Pelham Warren.

MONUMENT.

489

APPENDIX G. (Page 470.)

NAMES OF THE SUBSCRIBERS TO THE MONUMENT IN
WESTMINSTER ABBEY.

H. R. II. tlie Duke of Gloucester.

The Duke of Devonshire.

The Duke of Bedford.

The Duke of Somerset.

The Duke of Buckingham.

The JMarcjuis of Lansdowne.

The Earl of Essex.

Earl (;rey._ _

Earl Fitzwilliam.

Earl of Kosslyn.

Earl of Darnley.

Earl of Dunmore.

Earl of Caernarvon.

Earl Spencer.

Earl of Lauderdale.

Earl of ]\Iinto.

Eai-1 Cowper.

Earl of Jersey.

Lord Holland.

Lord King.

Lord Auckland.

Lord Carrington.

Lord Grenville.

Lord Kinnaird.

jNIarquis of Tavistock.

Viscount Ebrington.

Viscount Morpeth.

Viscount ^lilton.

Viscount Duncannon.

Lord Althorp.

Lord Webb Seymour.

Lord John Russell.

Lord Robert Spencer.

Lord George Cavendish.

The Hon. Wm. Lamb.

The Hon. J. W. Ward.

The Hon. Geo. Ponsonbv.

The Hon. Wellesley.

The Hon. Frederick Douglas.
The Hon. Jas. Abercromby.
The Rt. Hon. George Tierney.
The Rt. Hon. C. Manners Sutton.
Sir John Majoribanks, Bart., M. P.

Sir Coutts Trotter, Bart.
Sir Samuel Romiily, M. P.
Sir James Mackintosh.
Sir Robert Gitl'ord.
Sir Ronald Ferguson.
Alexr. Baring, Escp, ]M. P.
I. N. Fazakerley, Estp, M. P.
^\m. Elliott, Esq., ]\I. P.
Pascoe Grenfell, Esq., M. P.
J. Calcraft, Esq., :M. P.
Georije Phillips, Esip, 'SI. P.
Wm.'Orde, Esq., M. P.
Chas. Grant, Jun., Esq., M. P.
Frankland Lewis, Esq., M. P.
Jas. Macdonald, Es(i., M. P.
Richard Sharp, Esq., M. P.
Henry Brougham, Esq., i\I. P.
Wm. Courtenay, Esq., M. P.
James Scarlett, Esq., M. P.
U. A. Tavlor, Esip, M. P.
John Smith, Esq., M. P.
Richard Ileber, Esq., M. P.
Lady Carnegie.
John A. Murray, Esq.
Francis Jeffrey, Esq.
Thomas Thomson, Escj.
James Loch, Esq.
Ilcnrv Hallam, Esq.
W. G. Adam, Esf].
John Whishaw, Es(|.
AVilliam ^lurray, Es(j.
John Allen, J>sq.
Phihp ^^'illiams, Esq.
Professor Play fair.
^Ir. Sergeant Lens.
Dr. Lushington.
Professor Smyth.
Robert Ferguson of Raith, Esq.
Charles Grant, Esq.
Richard Oswald, Es([.
Frederick Pifjou, Esq.
The Rev. [Mr^ Douglas.
Tripp, Esq.

490 APPENDIX G.

The following- List of Subscribers at Bombay was transmitted
by Mr. William Erskine* the early Friend of Mr. Horner,
accompanied by the folloioing- Letter to Lord Auckland.

Mv Lord Bombay, 30th June, 1818.

I had the honour of receiving your letter of August
3d some time ago, and your Lordship only did me justice, in
supposing that I should be gratified by any opportunity of
showing my respect for the memory of one whom I admired
and loved so much, as I did Mr. Horner.

Though not quite certain from the expressions of the letter,
whether the number of the subscribers w^as intended to be
limited or indefinite, yet as several gentlemen, some of them
his friends, and all of them admirers of his public and private
virtues, expressed a desire to be permitted to contribute for
an object so congenial to their feelings, I have received their
subscriptions.

I annex a list of the subscribers who would have been more
numerous, at this presidency, but for circumstances which it
is unnecessary to detail.

I have the honour to be, my Lord,

Your faithful servant,

William Erskine.

Names of the Subscribers.

The Hon. Monntstuart Elphinstone.
Brig. Gen. Sir John jNIalcolm.
Wm. Erskine, Esq.
John Wedderburn, Esq.
Robert Stewart, Esq.
Olgcth "^^''oodhouse, Esq.
J. H. Crawford, Esq.
R. E. Stephenson, Esq.

]\Iansfield Forbes, Esq.
]\Iichie Forbes, Esq.
Theodore Forbes, Esq.
Wra. Ashbnrner INIorgan, Esq.
John Taylor, ]\I. D.
Captain Vans Kennedy.
James Henderson, Esq.
Edward Eden Elliot, Esq.

* See Vol. I. p. 99.

SPEECHES

MR. HORNER
IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS,

REFERKED TO IX THE TEXT.

SPEECHES

MR. HORNER
IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS,

REFERRED TO IX THE TEXT.*

I. ON THE REGENCY.

Dec. 20, 1810.
(Vol. ir. p. 44.)

" The Solicitor- General (Sir Thomas Plomer) contended,
that the proceeding in the appointment of a Regent, ' to exer-
cise the powers and authorities of the Crown, in the name
and on behalf of the King, dm-ing the continuance of his
Majesty's present indisposition,' by way of a Bill, and that by
way of an Address, were substantially the same thing, and
only differed in the mode of efi'ecting the same object. It
was said, that to use the King's name in assenting to the Bill
was a fiction. But even in the Address proposed by the
right honourable gentleman, was not the Regent desired to
act in the name and on the behalf of the King ? Even under
a Regency, was not every act of the government still to pro-
ceed in the King's name? All this was perfectly proper;
and where, then, was the impropriety of the two Houses
ordering the Chancellor to put the Great Seal to a legislative
measure in the name of the King ? If the Regent was to act
in the name of the King, why also might not the Chancellor?

* From Hansard's Debates. Sec note, Vol. I. p. 445. — Ed.

VOL. II. 42

494 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

Suppose the King an infant, substantially no act could be
done by him, yet all the transactions of government would be
conducted in his name ; though naturally incapable, his politi-
cal capacity would still exist ; and it was precisely on this
ground that the two Houses, in a case of necessity, were
authorised to order the Chancellor to affix the Great Seal to
an act of legislature."

Mr. Horner then rose and said : — Considering the prin-
ciples and views of the constitution professed by the learned
gentleman who had spoken last, it was no wonder he preferred
whatever mode of proceeding was proposed by the mmister.
Were it not for such authority, the learned gentleman, con-
sistently with his own opinions, might be quite indifferent to
the question, whether the Houses of Parliament ought to
proceed in this great transaction, by Bill or by Address. For,
in the beginning of his speech he had declared, that if this
House pretended to give away the whole sovereign authority
to a particular person by mere Address, it might as well usurp
to itself the whole of the sovereign power in all its branches;
and that he could see no difference between the one usurpa-
tion and the other. What difference the learned gentleman
was able to perceive between them in the instance of a Bill,
Avliich he could not discern in an Address, he had not ex-
plained. The distinction, however, between assuming the
royal power and conferring it was so essential, that the two
Houses could not lose sight of it for an instant in providing
for the necessities of the present emergency, without con-
founding all the functions of the constitution, and without
danger of subverting the very foundations of the monarchy.
It was their duty, on the one hand, to abstain from any the
smallest usurpation of executive authority ; and, on the other,
to provide, with the least possible delay, the means of sup-
plying the defect which had unhappily occurred in the per-
sonal exercise of that authority by his Majesty. The learned
gentleman had stated one doctrine, which, if correct, might
be thought a decisive objection at once to the measure of con-
ferring the powers of Regency by Address : he said, that the
office of Regent was one of which the functions were not

REGENCY QUESTION. 495

known nor defined, and the authority of which coukl not be
judicially recognized in Westminster-hall; and he demanded,
in what book of the common law the judges were to look for
the description of this officer and his capacities? He had
put this question with an air of triumph; yet the most satis-
factory negative he could receive in answer would furnish no
adequate reason for the inference which he meant to convey.
The nature of the office of Regent, and the description of its
authority and functions, do not belong to the common law of
the ordinary courts of justice, but are to be sought, where
they will most distinctly be found, in the law and custom of
parliament. It was too much the practice both of the right
honourable and the learned gentlemen on the Treasury bench,
to make reference to the common law and the learning of the
courts below, upon subjects which lie altogether within the
compass of the law of parliament ; a law, not known at all
to the professors of the common law in that capacity ; of
which the sources were coeval in antiquity with the common
law, and necessarily anterior to the statutes ; which was to
be collected only from the Rolls and Journals of parliament ;
and the supreme authority of which, within its proper sphere,
had been submitted to with reverence by the most ancient as
well as by all modern judges, and had been appealed to by
the best friends of liberty in the House of Commons in all
former times. So far was the learned gentleman from being
accurate, when he supposed that the office of Regent was not
known to the constitution, that the most ancient instance
preserved in our history of what may be called a parliamentary
proceeding, to supply a defect in the personal exercise of the
royal authority, is the nomination of a Regent; in the case
of the Earl of Pembroke, who, upon the accession of King
Henry the Third, an infant of nine years of age, was ap-
pointed Regent by the Great Council of the Nation assem-
bled at Bristol, and carried on the whole administration of the
government, with the full authority of the crown, by the
style and title of " Rector Regis et Regni." That the office
of Regent was known in all times to the constitution and
the law of parliament, was well proved by an entry upon

496 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

the Rolls, respecting the appointment of Richard Dake of
York to be Protector during the illness of Henry the Sixth.
The Parliament of that day thought fit to give him only a
limited authority ; and to that effect entered a declaration
upon the Roll, that they would not confer upon him the
name of Regent, because it imported authority of govern-
ment of the land, but only the name of Protector, which im-
ported a personal duty of attendance to the defence of the
kingdom. It was not to be doubted, that if the Prince of
Wales should take the style and authority of Regent in pur-
suance of an Address of the two Houses, the courts of law
would be bound to recognize his authority as that of the
crown. And though it might be fit, after he had assumed the
royal style, and had met his parliament, that an act should
pass to confirm his title, and to ratify those proceedings of
the two Houses; yet it was no more to be supposed, that,
prior to such ratification, the judges would dispute an au-
thority which the two Houses had directed his royal highness
to assume, than, if the two Houses should prefer the fiction
of a Bill, that the judges would presume to canvass the va-
lidity of the fiction. The difficulty which the learned gentle-
man had raised, with respect to the legal authority of a
Regent appointed by Address, was never felt with respect to
the authority of the Guardians and Lords Justices, who, re-
peatedly since the Revolution, have been appointed by com-
mission from the King. By the terms of such commissions,
they were invested with power to execute the office of Guar-
dians and Justices, and to order all acts of government which
by virtue of that office had been usual or might be lawfully
performed. The books of common law, however, furnish no
special delineation of the legal capacity and functions of such
officers ; the nature and extent of whose authority must be
gathered from the usage and practice of the realm, as recorded
in the memorials of parliament and in the archives of the
state. — The same learned gentleman had urged as an objec-
tion, what if the House of Lords should not agree to your
Address? To this argument, it was enough to answer by
another objection, what if the House of Lords should not

REGENCY QUESTION. 497

agree to your Bill? Were such a difficulty to arise in either
case, we must trust in the prudence and public spirit of both
Houses, and in their mutual disposition sincerely to effect
what must be a joint transaction, and which may therefore
require some concessions.

He would admit to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that
the present qu(?stion was to be debated upon the ground of
parliamentary precedents; understanding always, that iio
single precedent could over-rule either express law, or settled
and fundamental principles. In this point of view, the ques-
tion was nearly reduced to a choice between the precedent of
the Revolution, and that of the year 1788. But as something
had been said by the Attorney-General, of the proceedings
which took place in the reign of King Henry the Sixth, he
would advert shortly to the history of those proceedings ; be-
cause, in all the circumstances, which could be considered as
applicable to the present situation of the two Houses of Par-
liament, that history would be found full of instruction, in
opposition to the arguments of those who would urge the two
Houses to usurp the prerogative of the third branch of the
legislature. The transactions, which occurred in the reign of
Henry VI., consisted of two parts : the provision made for the
executive administration during his infancy, and the measures
taken by parliament towards the close of his reign, when he
fell into a malady similar to that with which his present Ma-
jesty is afflicted. The case of the minority of Henry the Sixth
differed wholly from the present: by the demise of the pre-
ceding king, the parliament then in being expired ; and when
a nev/ parliament met, to consider of the means of providing
for the infant king's minority, it was a full parliament regu-
larly convoked and opened, at which all the three branches of
the legislature were present. As soon as the news of Henry
the Fifth's death reached England, several peers of the realm
held a council at Windsor ; and, taking it upon themselves
under their responsibility to provide for the imminent neces-
sity of the State, they put the Great Seal to a writ for sum-
moning a parliament, and authorising Humphrey Duke of
Gloucester to hold that parliament as Commissioner in the

42*

498 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

King's name. In the parliament, so held, the crown was
fully represented in its legislative capacity by the DuUe of
Gloucester : and with perfect regularity according to all the
forms of law, after an indemnity to those who had acted in
this emergency and a confirmation of their acts, the parlia-
ment (consisting of the King represented by his Commis-
sioner, the Lords spiritual and temporal, and the Commons,)
appointed the Duke of Bedford Protector of the realm. Such
appointment, by a full parliament, is no precedent to justify
the proposed appointment by the two Houses alone in the
name of a full parliament. The same observation applies to
the proceedings which took place, in the nomination of a
Protector, when King Henry the Sixth fell into a state of
imbecility or lethargy, which disabled him from personally
exercising the functions of government. But it is important
to attend to the course of those proceedings. Before the
king sunk into that unhappy state, he had opened his parlia-
ment in person; which, after several prorogations under the
authority of regular commissions, was actually assembled at
the time when the disorder seized him. It was still a full
parliament, though he was himself unable to attend it, be-
cause he was legally represented there by his Commissioner,
or lieutenant for holding the parliament, the Duke of York,
appointed by letters patent from the king himself. And it is
material to observe, that the Commissioner for holding par-
liaments, at that period of our constitution, had, by the terms
of his written authority and by the constant practice of the
state, the entire legislative powers of the king; he opened
the causes of summons, he could prorogue, he could dissolve
it, he gave the royal assent or negative to bills and petitions
according to his own ministerial, and, no doubt, responsible
discretion. At a subsequent period, it became the settled
practice of the constitution, that the royal assent was never
given in the absence of the king himself, except under a
special commission reciting that his majesty had seen and
perfectly understood the particular bill assented to : but prior
to the accession of the Tudor line, and during the whole
reign of Henry VI., the constitution of parliament was dif-

REGENCY QUESTION. 499

fercnt in this respect; the Commissioner, authorised by the
king's letters patent to hold the parliament, having jKnver to
give the royal assent without taking the king's ])leasi:ire.
When Henry VI. therefore became deranged, the Duke of
York being Commissioner, there was no imperfection in the
parliament ; it was complete in all its branches, and com-
petent for all legislative measures. We find accordingly,
that, notwithstanding the incapacity of the king to attend
his parliament, its proceedings went on without interruption ;
and it was not deemed necessary to supply the defect in the
exercise of the royal authority. An event at length occurred,
which imposed upon parliament the necessity of interposing,
in order to provide the means of supplying that defect. The
keeper of the Great Seal died ; parliament was not competent
to appoint a new one ; that must be a personal act of the
king himself. It was necessary to vest the royal authority
in some person, who, by virtue of that authority, could de-
liver the Great Seal and create a Lord Chancellor. In this
emergency, the parliament, consisting of all its three branches,
(the Duke of York as Commissioner or lieutenant of the
King, the Lords spiritual and temporal, and the Commons,
in full parliament assembled,) by Bill, which passed the two
Houses, and to which the Commissioner, as in the ordinary
course, gave the royal assent, nominated the Duke of York
during the incapacity of the king, to be Protector of the
kingdom, and first of the council. It is clear, that this
furnishes nothing like a precedent for proceeding, in the two
Houses, without the presence of the third branch, actual or
represented, to manufacture a royal assent ; while, on the other
hand, it shows how scrupulous the two Houses were, at that
period, of assuming, or pretending to exercise in their own
capacity, any of the executive prerogatives of the crown.

With respect to the great precedent of the Revolution in
1688, the Chancellor of the Exchequer had contented himself
with disposing of it in the most summary manner. Premis-
ing in general terms, that if there is a direct precedent we
ought not to resort to one which holds only by analogy
(which, as a general maxim, was not to be denied) ; the

500 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

Chancellor of the Exchequer was then pleased to affirm that
the case of 1788 was direct, and that of the Revolution a pre-
cedent only by analogy ; but without showing, why it was to
be regarded as no more than analogical. So far as the mode
and order of proceeding were concerned, the measures taken
by the Convention Parliament formed strictly a direct prece-
dent. True, the political capacity of the king was then sus-
pended, which at present suffers no discontinuance ; the Con-
vention of that day had a greater defect to supply, than is
HOW to be provided for. But the principle, which authorises
an extraordinary interposition of the states of the realm, is in
both cases precisely the same ; the necessity is of the same
kind; the proceeding must bear the same character ; the dif-
ference in the extent of the defect that is to be supplied does
not require a different mode and form of supplying it. Or if
a stricter adherence to the established forms of legislation
were required in one case than in the other, and if procrastina-
tion were more justifiable ; delay was more to be justified,
and solemn formality more to be desired, where the work to
be accomplished was of greater magnitude, where, instead of
naming a provisional Regent, they had to raise a new line of
succession to the crown. And if, upon the abstract principles
of the constitution, any difference could be stated, between
the situation of the Convention and that of the two Houses
at present, it would be this ; that when the political capacity
of the crown was in the former instance discontinued, the
whole power of the crown, legislative as well as executive,
might theoretically be considered as devolving upon the states
of the realm, so that without usurpation they might have
used, and have affixed to their proceeding, the forms of assent
by the third branch of the legislature ; whereas, while the
throne is full, it is mere usurpation to seize the king's legisla-
tive power, as it is an absurdity in terms that the means of
supplying the royal incapacity must have the sanction of the
form of royal assent. The great statesmen and lawyers, who
accomplished the Revolution, were incapable of such fictions
and unsound refinements as compose the proceedings of
1788 ; they went straight to their object, guided by those

REGENCY QUESTION. 501

analogies of the constiiution which preserve the spirit of its
rules in the exceptions that seem most wide. Those to whom
the contrivances of 1788 ought to be ascribed, had secretly no
predilection for the event of the Revolution or for the charac-
ters that were engaged in it. Indeed on this day it had been
spoken of more than once with a slight, which no former
House of Commons would have borne. The Chancellor of
the Exchequer called it a taking precedent ; a sneer, however
unbecoming, which he trusted they, at whom it was directed,
would long continue to merit, by their adherence to those
memorable principles, and by their determination to act upon
the same in all similar emergencies. Another right honour-
able gentleman (Mr. Canning) had spoken of the leaders of
the Revolution, in terms of praise indeed, but with such
qualifications as if forsooth they stood in need of pardon, for
the length to which they had gone, impelled by a just neces-
sity. Yet, not the talents which shone among those illus-
trious men, nor even the flame of liberty by which they were
inspired, were more admirable, than the moderation with
which they proceeded through their great work. And when
the Committee is called upon to compare their proceedings
with those of 1788, and to choose between them, it is impos-
sible not to contrast the virtuous forbearance of all parties at
the Revolution in concurring to provide for the public in-
terests, with the struggle that was made for power in the
other instance ; and above all, to contrast the studied delays
by which power was then so factiously retained, with the
despatch with which our ancestors finished in one short month
their task of establishing at once the succession to the crown,
reducing its prerogatives within limitations by law, and
founding the whole structure of oin* civil and religious liber-
ties. The right honourable gentleman (Mr. Canning) had
said, that some of the arguments, used in the debates at the
Revolution, furnished a sort of authority in favour of our
proceeding in the present instance by a Bill rather than by
Address ; because the Tories, who dissented from the famous
vote of abdication, insisted, that the case ought to be pro-
vided for as if the king had become a lunatic, and urged the

502 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

propriety of appointing a regent for the life of King James,
according to the ancient laws and practice of the realm. The
topic, however, as used then, had no bearing upon the present
question. It was not used with reference to the form of
proceeding; no question of that sort was raised, and no one
objected then to the Address. It was urged by the Tories
in illustration of their doctrine, in which they fundamentally
differed from the others, that the misconduct of the king
was to be held as making a forfeiture only for his own life,
without breaking the succession. The just conclusion to be
drawn, was therefore the reverse of that of the right honour-
able gentleman ; that when the Tories of that day supposed
a case of lunacy in the sovereign, they considered it fit
indeed, that the vacancy should be filled by a regent accord-
ing to the ancient practice of the realm, but it never occurred
to them that an Address was not the most proper mode of
appointing him. And from this the Solicitor-General might
learn, that the Tories at the Revolution, some of whom were
most eminent lawyers, had no difficulty in recognising a
regency as an office known to the laws and the constitution.

Opposed to the high authority of the Convention Parlia-
ment, stood the single precedent of 1788 and 1789. He was
at that period too young a man, to have received any of the
impressions, which the agitation and resentments of that time
may have left upon those who took a part in the scene. He
had, without any bias upon his mind, endeavoured to judge
candidly of the whole proceeding, and of its historical circum-
stances, no unimportant part of every parliamentary precedent.
And he had no hesitation to say, that the Resolution, which
asserts the right of the two Houses to provide for the exigency,
commanded his full assent, both as the true result of more
ancient precedents, and as a principle of constitutional law :
provided it be understood in the sense, in which it was clear
that the Houses of 1788 understood it, as declaratory of their
right and duty to vest the royal authority in proper hands, but
carrying no implication that the two Houses can ever them-
selves legally assume the exercise of any of the functions of
royal authority. AVith regard, however, to the other part of

REGENCY QUESTION. 503

the precedent of 1788, the Resolution to which the comnnittec
was now called to assent, and by which the two Houses pro-
posed to raise the fiction of a royal assent by usurping the
king's Great Seal, that appeared to him so repugnant to the
fundamental maxims of the constitution, if not a direct viola-
tion of express law, that no weight of precedent could ever
sanction it, far less a single case so discredited by its own cir-
cumstances as that of 1788. The Chancellor of the Exche-
quer had attempted to show, that the proceedings of 1788
were more than a precedent of the two Houses assembled as
at present ; as if, by what passed subsequently, they had been
converted into a precedent of the full parliament. His first
argument for this purpose was, that various bills were brought
in, and proceeded through their several stages in both Houses,
while the parliament sat under the commission (as it may be
described) from the two Houses, which bills, after the King had
met his parliament by a regular commission, received the
royal assent, without again going through the previous stages.
But the argument was incomplete, unless the right honour-
able gentleman denied, that the two Houses, as assembled in
their present circumstances, were incompetent to receive bills
and to forward through all the proper steps, to await the royal
assent. The right honourable gentleman, he was persuaded,
would be deterred, by the practical consequences of such a
proposition, from maintaining it ; nor could it be maintained.
The parliament was in legal existence, by force of the original
writ of summons ; the two Houses of Parliament, though not
now in parliament assembled on account of the absence of the
King, were regularly assembled here by authority of the
King's last writ of prorogation, which called them to West-
minster on the 1st November last. Their adjournment on
that day was as much an act of the parliamentary capacity of
each House, as any vote upon a bill could be. Here as-
sembled, under the writ of prorogation, they had all their
privileges and capacities in full force ; though the proceedings
which they might hold by bill could not be completed, with-
out the King's assent. If the two Houses, as now met with-
out any commission, could pass a bill through the stages of

504 SPEECHES IN TARLIAMENT.

each House, there was an end of the argument of the right
honourable gentleman that the subsequent assent in 1789 to
certain bills, sanctioned the commission given by the two
Houses; and that they could entertain bills without any
commission at all, was implied in the whole of the proceeding
which he himself recommended. The other argument of the
right honourable gentleman to this point was still more
inconclusive ; he went so far as to say, that the Resolution
having been agi-eed to by both Houses, and the King, after
his recovery having, in the speech of his commissioners,
thanked the Houses for the additional proof they had given
of attachment to his person, it was to be inferred that the
resolution had thus received the assent of all the three
branches of parliament. If this had any meaning, the argu-
ment was this, that the expression in the King's speech
echoed by the addresses, should be considered as having
ratified, by the voice of the three branches assembled in
parliament, the irregular proceedings of the two Houses in
their preceding irregular assembly. It was the first time
that the King's speech and its address were stated to have
the character and efficacy of an act of parliament; if a ratifi-
cation or an indemnity had been required, that was surely
no act of ratification and indemnity ; but assuming, as the
right honourable gentleman assumed by his argument, that
the proceedings stood in need of such confirmation, the true
inference was, that, as there had been no indemnity granted
and no ratification passed, those proceedings were left and
still remained in all their original irregularity. Though the
precedent of 1788, however, could not be argued as high as
the Chancellor of the Exchequer wished to raise it; though
it was not a precedent in full parliament, it was certainly, in
point of form, a precedent for the two Houses assembled in
the peculiar circumstances of their present situation. As
such, it stands in opposition to that of the Revolution ; and
it was for the Committee to weigh and compare them to-
gether; to compare a precedent, to the form of which no
objection was larged at the time by those who most disliked
its substance, which had been stamped with the sanction of

REGENCY QUESTION. 505

an ap)3roving posterity, to which no objection in point of
principle could even now be stated, with another precedent
which at the time and ever since had been condemned by-
high parliamentary authorities, and which was liable to the
strongest objections both from express laws and from consti-
tutional principles.

The statute of the 13th of Charles 11. made it a praemunire
to maintain, that both Houses of Parliament, or either, had a
legislative power without the king: yet the object of this Re-
solution was, to assume a legislative power by the two Houses
without the king. That statute was levelled at the doctrines
as well as the conduct of the Long Parliament ; nor since
the time of that parliament, had such doctrine and such lan-
guage been heard within these walls, as the ministers had this
day used to serve the purpose of the day. The Long Parlia-
ment, indeed, did not scruple to make a Great Seal for them-
selves ; to justify the measure, they resorted to many of the
topics which had been urged this day; their antiquarian
pamphleteer Prynne used and perverted his toilsome industry
and obscure erudition, in an argument for the parliament; and
some of the expressions which fell from the Chancellor of the
Exchequer seemed to have been taken from the title of Prynne's
pamphlet, which is, That the Great Seal attends the Parlia-
ment. In speaking of the Long Parliament, he wished not to
be misunderstood, or to be supposed deficient in veneration
for those able patriots, who, in the commencement of the
struggle, disappointed as it was in the end, and stained by
lawless ambition and atrocious violence, had stood forth to
vindicate our just liberties, and to bring delinquents to con-
dign punishment. The flight of King Charles to York, and
his stealth of the Great Seal, justified their subsequent step;
it was justified by the necessities of the state, which must
over-rule other considerations ; but let not those, who neither
have the necessities of the Long Parliament to plead, nor are
actuated by their constitutional principles, imitate their usurp-
ation where there is no similar necessity, and borrow their
language and arguments to give practical effect to principles
of a very different description. Besides the evidence, which

VOL. II. 43

50G SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

the statute of Charles II. aflbrded, of the great doctrine of the
law, that there is no legislative power in the Houses of Parlia-
ment without the king, there were express acts of parliament
which prescribed the mode, and prohibited every other, of
giving the royal assent to bills passed by the two Houses.
The 33d of Henry VIII., chapter 21, declares, that the king's
assent by his letters patent, notified in his absence to both
Houses assembled together in the upper chamber of parlia-
ment, is of the same force as if personally and publicly de-
clared by himself; bat the letters must not only be under his
Great Seal, but they must be signed with his own hand. The
act of the first year of Philip and Mary respecting the at-
tainder of the Duke of Norfolk, which is a public statute,
contains a still more explicit declaration of the law, that letters
patent for giving the royal assent to bills have no validity or
efficacy, unless signed with the king's own hand, as well as
passed under the Great Seal. The commission, under which
the royal assent was pretended to be given, on the last day of
Henry the Eighth's life, to the bill for attainting the Duke of
Norfolk, had the Great Seal in due form; it had also the
kino-'s name affixed by a stamp: but at the time these forms
were o-one through, King Henry was insensible and incapable
of attending to public business. In the first year of Philip
and Mary, after an inquiry into the transaction respecting this
commission, and upon a confession of these circumstances
before the House of Commons by Lord Paget, who had been
King Henry's Secretary of State at the time, parliament
removed the attainder ; not in the ordinary form, by a bill to
reverse the act of attainder, but, which is most material in
the present argument, by a bill declaring that act to have
been void from the beginning, expressly for want of the royal
assent in due form. Before this proceeding took place in par-
liament, a question had been raised in Westminster Hall,
whether that act of attainder could be regarded even there as
a perfect statute, on account of the manner in which the
assent had been given. The Solicitor-General, who had
called so loudly for references to the law books, would find in
Sir James Dyer's Reports that the question was much debated

REGENCY QUESTION. -307

among the justices, in a suit between the duke and certain
purchasers of some of his forfeited estates ; and although the
judicial determination of the point was superseded by the
parliamentary reversal, it might be well for the learned gentle-
man to consider, whether to his mind the existence of such a
judicial doubt ought not to hold good as an argument against
proceeding to make a regent by a bill in the manner proposed,
lest the justices hereafter might take it into debate whether a
bill assented to by the phantom were a perfect statute.

But how strong soever the reasons against such a proceed-
ing might be thought, founded upon the express statute law
of the land, it was still more strongly condemned by the
essential first principles of the constitution of the monarchy.
It was a proposal to break down and confound all the boun-
daries of legislative authority, as distributed among the three
independent branches of parliament; to usurp the legislative
power of the crown ; and, by a gross and illegal fiction, to
steal the semblance of an assent where there could be no
negative, with the absurdity of affecting to sanction by the
royal assent itself, the remedy made necessary by the inca-
pacity of the King to assent to any thing. Such was the
measure, which the Committee were called upon to prefer to
the direct and clear precedent of the Revolution. . They had
to choose between a contrivance, the purpose of which, though
denied, was palpable; a fiction, which could only be executed
by a parliamentary falsehood and fraud, which must be
attended with indefinite delay, which would involve their pro-
ceedings in a maze of complex and inconsistent forms ; the
invention, it was well known, of a refining lawyer, more ad-
dicted to scholastic subtilties and the caprices of ingenuity,
than remarkable for enlargement of mind: they had to choose
between this, and the explicit, plain, prompt course adopted
at the Revolution, by the best of our ancestors at the best
sera of our history, a precedent formed by statesmen of much
experience and large views, and by lawyers, who, with all the
learning of their profession, were found no unequal associates
to such statesmen.

508 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

II. CORN LAWS.

1.3th and 16tli May, 1814.
(Vol. II. p. IGO.)

Tin: House having resumed the consideration of a report
respecting the Corn Laws, the Chancellor of the Exchequer
(Mr. Vansittart) said, — "He was of opinion that some of the
resolutions that had been proposed would require further de-
liberation, and he should wish the subject, so far as related to
them, to be postponed : but so convinced was he of the pro-
priety of the resolution for allowing an unrestrained export,
that he should be unwilling to postpone it for a single day."
After some other members had spoken,

Mr. HoRxNER rose, and said: — He thought that when the
House came to consider the other resolutions, it would see
the propriety of pausing, at least for some time, before it went
to a decision on so very important a measure ; he wished that,
once for all, the House would now decide on the interest by
which thos.e were actuated who opposed the resolutions. The
real interests of the consumer and of the landlord were one
and the same. But what did the committee profess to do ?
Why to raise the price to the consumer — (a member called
out No! no!). He would ask whether the honourable mem-
ber for the Queen's County (Sir H. Parnell) had not acknowl-
edged this on a former occasion ; and if the honourable
member who favoured him with the interruption took pains
to inquire, he would find it was so. The necessary effect of
the measure was permanently to increase the price of corn.
He approved, however, of some parts of the view which his
right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer had
taken of the question.

[The first resolution was agreed to, and a bill to permit the
exportation of corn from any part of the United Kingdom,
without payment of duty or receiving of bounty, was ordered

THE CORN LAWS. 509

to be brought in. This was done by the Chancellor of the
Exchequer on the 16th of May, when it was read a first time.
The same day Mr. Hnskisson moved the farther consideration
of the resolutions of the Corn Committee. On the 5th of
May he had proposed the adoption of a graduating scale,
between 24^. per quarter, when wheat should be at or under
635. per quarter, and Is. when the price should rise to 86^. and
upwards. The second resolution now proposed contained the
terms of that graduating scale ; the third resolution proposed
that foreign corn should at all times be imported and ware-
housed free of all duty, until taken out for home consumption,
and should at all times be reexported free of all daty.]

Mr. Horner on this occasion said: — He was anxious to
show his reasons for the vote he should give that night, begging
this only to be kept in view, that if the principle of prevent-
ing the importation of grain was to be adopted, the most
effectual mode in which it could be adopted was the best.
The right honourable gentleman on the other side had failed
in convincing him, that there was any occasion for departing
from that system, in regard to the corn laws, which had hith-
erto prevailed. He was far from thinking that freedom in
any trade was bad in itself, or that such a system was imprac-
ticable in regard to corn ; but he thought it best that the sys-
tem now in practice as to the corn trade should be kept in
view, unless reasons were made out for the departure from it.
He was aware that commerce should always give way to
higher reasons of state; but it appeared to him that there was
here no such reason ; and, in addition, it also appeared to him
that the present was the very worst season for proposing any
change in this system. He could not help particularly re-
marking the great difference of opinion that prevailed on this
second resolution, as to which no two members who approved
of it concurred in the reasons on which that concurrence was
founded. He was unwilling, therefore, to go into a detail of
his reasons why he wished this resolution to be postponed. He
did so, taking into consideration the state of the manufactures
of this country, and the persons in foreign markets whom we
were to meet with. He thought that this resolution ought to

43*

510 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

be postponed, not because there was not time enough to con-
sider it; but because of the change of circumstances which
might be expected to take place with regard to our foreign
relations ; and because there was not now time for us to see
in what posture the trade of this country as to our foreign
relations was likely to stand. If the House were to postpone
this part of the subject, he should have the satisfaction of
thinking, from reflecting on the Bill which had been brought
in this day, and to which there was likely to be little or no
opposition in any quarter, that the House had done enough
in the present session on this important subject, in the recog-
nition of the principle of a free trade in so essential a point.
If that Bill was to be maintained and carried through, as he
trusted it would, it would eventually, he hoped, improve one
principal part of the trade of this country, particularly of that
part of the kingdom in which he was satisfied every member
of that House felt a deep interest — Ireland. That there was
no danger that supplies of corn could at any time be withheld
from us when we required them : he argued from this consider-
ation, that at the very period when our enemy had vowed
our destruction — when our crops had failed, and when the
continental system was in full vigour, we were, in spite of
that system, in full supply of corn. If so, what reason had
we to be afraid of our agricultural interests on account of the
cheapness at home ? It was impossible that importation
could ever be carried to such a pitch, as to drive out our home-
grown corn. The expense of the carriage of so bulky an ar-
ticle alone must always render that next to impossible, added
to which, there was the expense of double shipping from the
one country to the other. As to the agriculturist, he would
gain just nothing at all from the proposition of the right hon-
ourable gentleman ; and as to poor-rates, there would, at no
great distance of time, be occasion for a revision of them, for
at present they could be regarded in no other light than as an
inefficacious and circuitous way of paying the wages of
labour. The extension of home demand and home market
was the true stimulus of all agricultural improvement. He
should conclude with stating, that this was not a merely agri-

THE CORN LAWS. 511

cultural country, but that wc depended principally on our
commerce and manufactures for that distinguished rank and
preeminence which we held in the scale of nations; and he
therefore thought it impolitic to adopt any measure, the ten-
dency of which might be ultimately to throw discouragements
on the commercial prosperity and resources of the country,
from an exclusive and unwise preference of our agricultural
interests.

[The amendment, that the consideration of the resolutions
be postponed to that day three months, was lost by a division
of 144 against 27. The resolutions were ordered to be re-
committed next day, when the second, containing the gradua-
ting scale, was agreed to.]

512 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

m. SLAVE TRADE.

28th June, 1814.
(Vol. II. p. 160.)

Mr. Horner moved, " That the several entries in the votes
of this House on the 3d day of May last, and the 3d day of
this instant June, and of the Address agreed to by this House,
to be presented to his Royal Highness the Prince Regent,
relative to the abolition of the slave trade, and of his Royal
Highness's Answer thereto, that it would be the earnest en-
deavour of his Royal Highness to accomplish the object of it,
might be read : " and the same having been read,

Mr. Horner said, — That the motion which he had to sub-
mit to the House, though it related to the same subject as the
motion which had been last night discussed, differed essen-
tially from it, for instead of calling on the House to come to
any conclusion, it merely contained a call for the information
necessary to a correct judgment on the question which would
be submitted to the House to-morrow. In the Address of the
last night, he, for one, had concurred most cordially, nor was
he disposed to under-rate the good effect which that Address
would produce ; for he did not doubt that, if there was further
opportunity of exertion on the subject of the abolition of the
slave trade, those who directed his Majesty's councils would
go to the discussion with additional power, from the reiterated
expression of the wish of parliament.

But there was another business to be done ; they had to
express their opinions, not prospectively, but on the treaty
which had put an end to the misery of that protracted war, with
which Europe had been so long desolated. This treaty was
to be discussed in all its bearings ; but if there was one point
more interesting than another, it was the stipulation with re-
lation to African slavery, and to inquire how far ministers had
acted up to the wishes of the parliament and the country. As

Till'] SLAVE TRADE. 513

to what had been done by the' noble lord opposite to him, he
was wholly iininformed, and the object of his motion was to
require this information in which he was deficient — to know
how far the noble lord, acting under the direction of the
House, and the sense of his own duty, had wisely taken those
measures which were calculated to give effect to the benevo-
lent disposition of the whole nation on this subject.

He wished distinctly to be understood as to a point which
had been mentioned in the discussion of last night; it had
then been said by the noble lord, that it was the argument of
those who disapproved of the stipulation, that the abolition of
the slave trade should be a sine qua non of a treaty of peace.
He did not know that such an alternative had been suggested
as proper, nor should he have supported such an alternative.
If he were informed the peace would have been impracticable,
without such a stipulation as had been adopted, it would,
without doubt, be wise to postpone wdiat was the object of all
our wishes : but it was necessary that he should have much
more information on the subject before him than he already
had, before he could believe that such an alternative was at any
time necessary. That such an argument might have been ad-
duced by the negotiators, any one who had ever had curiosity
enough to look into diplomatical transactions, could well be-
lieve ; but propositions were often laid down in the com-
mencement of a negotiation, which were departed from at the
conclusion without difficulty. There was another point in the
discussion of last night, which he thought it necessary to
allude to. It had been said by the noble lord opposite, that
the question of the abolition could not have been mixed in
the negotiation with the stipulation for the cession of the
colonies in our possession. The reason of this he could not
comprehend. The criterion of the policy of a proposition was
the effect of that measure on the power with whom we had to
negotiate. Now, so far as it appeared from the statement of
the noble lord, he had voluntarily thrown away the only bene-
fit which we could throw into the scale against the abolition
of the slave trade on the part of France. Though the House
could not decide in the actual state of their knowledge, that

514 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

the noble lord had acted unadvisedly, yet they could say that
they did not possess information enough to enable them to
judge fairly.

Why, in this state of ignorance, should the House depart
from the old practice of demanding information ? The only
reason adduced to the contrary was, that the pretensions ad-
vanced during the negotiations would, by being published,
bind the different powers to support them. But at least the
House should be permitted to know what the conduct of the
noble lord himself had been. They knew the grounds on
which the noble lord must have urged the immediate aboli-
tion, and the futile reasons by which they must have been
opposed. These arguments might be wrapped in the mystery
of diplomacy ; but it was quite improbable that any thing
could have been adduced which had not for the last twenty
years been known to every man of education in this kingdom ;
there could be nothing of novelty in the reasoning. Why,
therefore, should not these discussions be published? for if
there was any sincerity in the wish of the French government
to undeceive the public in France on this question, they could
desire nothing more than that the reasoning against the abo-
lition should be published for the purpose of being refuted.
It would be curious to see what reasoning had been made use
of by the Prince of Benevento on this subject — what new
views he entertained on the subject of the rights of man — so
contrary as they must have been to those which he had for-
merly entertained I It was certainly much to be desired that an
opportunity should be given, to apply the sense of this coun-
try to dispel the senseless prejudices which existed in France
on this subject. Yet if there was nothing in this argument,
the House could recur to its constant usage ; this usage was,
that when they were dissatisfied with a treaty, they should
require information on the subject. It was incumbent, how-
ever, to show by the production of the documents, that there
were such insurmountable obstacles to the immediate aboli-
tion, that the House might with justice to itself and the
country, say " Aye I " to the demand which the noble lord was
to make of an acquittal on this article.

THE SLAVE TRADE. 51-5

The House, on the 3d of May, had unanimously desired,
that care should be taken in the Treaty of Peace to bring
about an universal abolition. The general wish — was it
necessary to say the general expectation ? — was, that a total
abolition might take place. How different the result I The
traffic of one of the greatest nations in Europe had been
renewed (for during twenty years it had been interrupted) —
renewed to an extent of which the House perhaps had no
conception. From the best authorities it appeared, that pre-
viously to the Revolution, the black population of the French
colonies amounted to 800,000 persons, to maintain which
40,000 negroes were annually imported. Could any man
without horror and shame contemplate the misery thus im-
mediately produced by a treaty, into the grounds of which, if
they did not inquire, they virtually became parties ? But this
was not all. In many colonies, the population had been
wasted since the Revolution, though, extraordinary as it might
appear, in St. Domingo, during the dismal period of revolt and
rebellion there, the population had increased — so superior was
the worst species of liberty to slavery! Extraordinary impor-
tations would, therefore, be made to those colonies where the
population had diminished. Even here the evil produced by
the treaty did not end. By the vigorous manner in which the
abolition laws of this country had been carried into effect, the
slave trade had been rooted out in a great part of the coast of
Africa — there being only one small island north of the line,
Bissaos, possessed by the Portuguese. But now^ Senegal,
Goree, and their dependencies, having been restored to the
French, all that coast would be thrown back into its former
state of misery and desolatioij. Not only would this unhappy
country be subjected to the evils of this terrible traffic on the
part of the French, but on the part of the Portuguese ; for,
under a treaty which had been concluded with the Prince
Regent of Portugal, under pretence of abolishing the slave
trade by degrees, that nation was permitted to trade in slaves
with any settlement where this traffic was continued by the
power which possessed it.

Thus much evil had been done by the treaty, and should

516 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

they say, in the ;ccal of their parliamentary confidence, that
the noble lord had acted zealously and wisely? It was quite
improper to place such an extravagant confidence in the noble
lord without a knowledge of the reasons or facts on which he
had acted. It was not, however, to the transactions at Paris
that the object of his motion was limited. There had been
repeated addresses from that House to the throne, which had
always been most graciously answered, on the same subject
as that of the address of the 3d of May, namely, to pray the
crown to endeavour, in any arrangements entered into with
foreign powers, to adopt measures for the universal abolition
of the slave trade. It was, therefore, important to learn
whether, before our armies had entered into France, arrange-
ments had been made with the allied powers on this subject,
and whether, in the discussions at Frankfort and other pieces,
no time had been lost in coming to a distinct understanding
on the subject, and making known that the colonies which we
held we were ready to restore for the sake of peace, but not
unless that peace were coupled with an abolition of the slave
trade. He held it perfectly proper, that the abolition should
not be miade a sine quel non of peace ; but that it was also
most desirable that the restoration of the colonies by us, and
the abolition of the slave trade on the part of our late ene-
mies, should always have been put forward together. It was
too great a stretch of confidence, he repeated, for the House
to suppose, that in all these particulars the members of his
Majesty's government had acted wisely, without having the
least information on the subject.

As to the assertion of the noble lord, that the French were
generally ignorant upon this subject, he admitted the possi-
bility of such ignorance, so far as regarded a certain portion of
the people. That the upper circles had become so depraved
in moral sentiment, so ignorant, or so indifferent with respect
to whatever concerned the interests of liberty and humanity,
he thought not improbable ; but he felt it difficult to believe
that the great body of a civilised and enlightened nation like
France could bo uninformed or insensible upon a question of
sucli importance as the abolition of the slave trade. There

THE SLAVE TRADE. 517

must, indeed, be somctliing preternatural about France, if
such insensibility existed in sucii a nation. Then, assuming
the contrary, what peculiar sense of interest could prompt the
French people to be so peculiarly tenacious of the continua-
tion of the slave trade? For several years they had, in fact,
known nothing about it, or about the colonies in which it had
been carried on, that could induce any popular solicitude to
maintain or revive it. Two of the colonies restored to France,
namely, Guadaloupe and Martinique, notoriously required no
importation of slaves, and of St. Domingo, the present gene-
ration of the French knew nothing but that which was cal-
culated to excite their horror, from a recollection of the fate of
that gallant army which was sent there to perish, because it
was attached to a rival general.

But, notwithstanding these circumstances, the noble lord
had acceded to the article under consideration, stating, how-
ever, that the French government assured him of its dispo-
sition and purpose to mitigate the evils, and limit the e:xtent,
of the slave trade. If, however, this assurance were sincere,
and should be fulfilled, what must become of the plea of
reverence for public prejudice and national sentiment, for that
prejudice and sentiment were but too likely to derive strength
from the embarkation of capital, and the acquisition of profit ?
That was, should any profit arise. For really the prospect
of profit to France seemed very questionable, particularly
from the difficulties that must attend the re-acquisition of St.
Domingo. Considering, then, that no such prospect could
be much relied upon, and that France was not therefore likely
to insist upon the maintenance of this odious traffic ; consi-
dering also the situation of France, the concurrence of the
Allies in one sentiment upon this subject, he could not help
thinking that our government was entitled, as it w^as bound,
to press for the entire abolition of the slave trade, which was
a proposition it would be idle to suppose that the French go-
vernment, in its defeated and humble state, could have suc-
cessfully resisted. He could not, indeed, persuade himself to
believe, that if the zeal and talents of the noble lord had been
effectually employed with that view, the complete acquies-

voL. II. 44

518 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

cence of the French government in the abolition of the slave
trade could not have been obtained. At least such a case as
he had stated required explanation, as to the conduct of
ministers in pursuance of the addresses of parliannent, and the
wishes of the country upon this important question. He
should therefore conclude with moving, " That an humble
Address be presented to his Royal Highness the Prince
Regent, That he will be graciously pleased to give directions,
that there be laid before this House copies of all representa-
tions made on the part of his Majesty's government during the
late negotiations for peace, and of all communications which
passed between his Majesty's minister and the allied powers,
relative to the abolition of the African slave trade."

TRANSFER OF GENOA TO SARDINIA. 519

IV. TRANSFER OF GENOA TO THE KING OF SARDINIA.

21st Fchruiu-y, 1815.
(Vol. II. p. 228.)

Mr. Lambton moved for the production of a variety of
papers relative to the transfer of the Genoese people; and
after several members had spoken, (the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, Sir James Mackintosh,* Mr. Wellesley Pole, Mr.
Whitbread, and Mr. Bathurst,)

Mil. Horner rose, and said: — If the House rightly felt
the question then before them, they would be aware that it
depended in no manner whatever upon any information with
respect to the proceedings of Congress. He certainly did not
understand the doctrine of the right honourable gentleman
(Mr. Bathurst,) that the House of Commons had no right to
interfere in any acts resulting from negotiations still in pro-
gress. Would it be said, that it was not the duty of that
House, when a measure had been adopted which involved
the honour and good faith of the country, to raise its voice,
and, if possible, stop the course of those proceedings which
tended to degrade the British name? He would boldly
affirm, that what had been done was contrary to the honour
and dignity of the nation ; and he cared not by what nego-
tiations, or by what motives of policy, that act was preceded.
The apparent breach of fiiith, the apparent violation of na-

* Sir James Mackintosh, in his journal, mentions this speech in the follow-
ing terms : —

'' Horner rose about a quarter before eleven, and spoke till half past twelve
— admirably well. His earnest gravity of manner, his sincerity in the avowal
of his own opinions, though unpopular, and the temperance with which he de-
livered them, and avoided or evaded their dangerous consecjuences, were
equally perfect. The success was astonishing. It re-animatcd our spirits,
and at the same time commanded the most profound attention of our o])po-
nents, often e.x.torting involuntary proofs of their approbation. I am hai)py
to say that I was able most heartily to concur in the general homage, ancl to
feel Horner's speech as a consolation for ni}' own failure.

" 21st (22d V). Horner called, and walked with me to Lord Grcnville's; he
had all the overflowing kindness of victory." — Life of Sir James Mackintosh,
vol. ii. p. 339. — Ed.

520 SrEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

tional honour, the apparent cruelty and perfidy of the deed,
might be explained; but he was sure it never could be ex-
plained, without the abandonment of all that constituted the
moral greatness and political dignity of the nation. It
seemed to be acknowledged, on the other side, that the trans-
action bore, on the face of it, the appearance of a breach of
faith; but it was hinted, that the general policy, or the tran-
quillity of Europe, might have required it. He would argue
it in away exactly the reverse; and would assert, that the
remote considerations of policy could not be admitted into
the question at all, without an utter abandonment of every
moral principle. No view of expediency, political, financial,
or military, could ever alter his opinion of the transaction
which had taken place at Genoa. It was, indeed, reviving
the old revolutionary language. If countries were to be par-
titioned according to the will of the sovereigns assembled at
the Congress — if they were to indulge in the same unscru-
pulous practices which disgraced the worst periods of the
French Revolution, wherein did they differ from those men,
who, with philanthropy in their mouths, were the scourges of
society ? Was this to be the kind of general peace that was
promised to Europe ? Was the attachment of people to their
sovereign, to their ancient laws and constitutions, to be
totally disregarded? That such principles were acted upon,
was manifest from the case of Saxony and Genoa ; but never
till the latter event, was England a party to such enormities.
The partition of Poland, though unfortunately not opposed,
was at least not sanctioned by this country ; but now we
could only feel remorse and self-reproach, for our share in the
perpetration of as great an act of injustice, as any that the
annals of revolutionary France could display. Knowing as
we did, what it was to possess an ancient government of free
and equal laws, conscious of all the hereditary feelings of
attachment, which such a government was calculated to in-
spire, was the House now to sanction a crime of this magni-
tude, with a full impression on their minds, of all the sufferings
which it must have inflicted on the people of Genoa? He
had to request the attention of the House, to the effect pro-

TRANSFER OF GENOA TO SARDINIA. 521

duced by these proclamations on the mind.s of tlio Genoese
people, and the military occurrences that succeeded. IIow
diflerent were the hopes of Genoa last year from her present
condition I When Lord William Bentinck landed in Italy,
and proclaimed the independence of that country, the animat-
ing cry spread from village to village, till it pierced the walls of
Genoa, and decided the fate of the French army \vithin them.
It was the moral influence of that sentiment which produced
the effect, not the point of the bayonet. Genoa was sur-
rendered by the French, because the people, trusting to the
proclamation of a British officer, would not defend the place ;
and what were the advantages which our perfidy obtained
for us ? By giving us possession of the territory round
Genoa, it gave us, in effect, possession of the whole of the
north of Italy. By our promises we gained that advantage ;
and having gained it, we violated those promises. To the
latest day of her servitude, Genoa could never forget that she
owed her bondage to the perfidy of Great Britain. This
might throw them into the hands of France, who, as the
strongest part of Italy had been transferred to the weakest
power in Europe, might obtain the surrender of Genoa, when-
ever they pleased, from the King of Sardinia, who would sign
its transfer in order to preserve his crown. It was to France
alone the Genoese could hereafter look; and it was to France
that we had probably consigned the future government of
this unfortunate people. Such a consideration was, however,
in his mind, of far inferior moment to the paramount ques-
tion respecting which the House was called on to decide.
Had the faith of this country been violated — aye or no?
All the facts on which such a decision ought to be founded
were before them ; they were contained in two documents,
the genuineness and authenticity of which it had not been
attempted to deny. If the facts were admitted, no considera-
tions of policy could alter or justify them. That man must
have a peculiar constitution of mind, wiio could sufler any
notions of political, commercial, military, or financial expe-
diency, to enter at all into his estimate of the character and
justification of a direct breach of a moral obligation. Some-

44*

522 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

thing had been said of the effect that might be produced
elsewhere, by such discussions as the present. He cared not
what effect might be produced : on such an occasion he con-
sidered it to be the bounden duty of every member to state
his impressions, and leave those impressions to produce the
effect that belonged to them in this country and in Europe.

THE CORN LAWS. 523

V. THE CORN LAWS.

23(1 Febnuiry, 1815.
(Vol. II. p. 229.)

The House having resolved itself into a Committee to re-
.sume the debate of the preceding evening, on the state of the
Corn Laws, and after Sir John Newport, Mr. Frankland
Lewis, Mr. Calcraft, and several other members had spoken,

Mr. Horner addressed the House, and said : — He should
not pay much attention to the calculations on either side.
From the manner in which the question was opened, he had
no hesitation in saying, that the right honourable gentleman
(Mr. Robinson) had manifested a more statesman-like mind
than any of those by whom his propositions were supported ;
for that right honourable gentleman had fully recognised the
great principles which, according to the highest authorities,
ought to regulate our commercial policy, admitting that a
case of necessity should be made out for any deviation from
those principles, and that the House had only to balance
between difficulties — between the nature of the necessity
and the deference that was due to the great radical principle
of a free trade. That this principle was entitled to respect,
■was not, he maintained, the opinion of what were denomi-
nated mere modern spcculatists, but of the soundest thinkers
upon commercial policy, aided by the experience of practical
men, who most naturally deemed the success of agriculture
as the main basis of commercial prosperity. Those, then,
who concurred with such thinkers, could not be regarded as
theorists only, nor were they fairly liable to the attempts made
to depreciate their judgment. He was indeed surprised at
these attempts, as if the denomination of " political econo-
mists" could detract from the authority of any gentleman
who opposed the measure before the committee. But who
were they who resorted to nicknames upon this occasion?
Why, the very men who admitted that the knowledge of po-
litical economy required deep reading, and, that what ap-

524 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

peared paradoxes to superficial observers were, upon further
investigation, proved to be just and rational views. Those,
indeed, who used the nickname alluded to, endeavoured
themselves, by the legerdemain of figures, and a complication
of details, to confer a rational character upon a proposition
which had all the complexion of a paradox, which, in fact,
appeared utterly irreconcilable with reason. But in reviewing
these extravagances, he was glad to find that the report of the
committee of that House was not disfigured by such observa-
tions as appeared in the report of the other House of Parlia-
ment ; for, in the latter, he was really astonished to find these
statements: — first, that the price of provisions had truly
nothing to do with the price of labour; and, secondly, that
the amount of rents had no material influence upon the
charges of agriculture. But there was another theory, still
more extraordinary, from the advocates of the proposition
before the committee, and which, he believed, had never
been broached since the days of Cromwell ; namely, that the
land did not really belong to the proprietors, but to the com-
munity. — Nay, in addition to these strange doctrines, an
honourable friend of his (Mr. Preston), who was among those
by whom theorists had been decried, had that day sent him
the tract of the Marquis de Mirabeau upon political economy,
which he had alluded to in his speech, calculating, no doubt,
that it would serve to produce an impression upon his mind:
but his honourable friend was under a serious mistake as to
the nature of that celebrated writer's opinion ; for the Mar-
quis de Mirabeau belonged to that class of economists, who
maintained quite an opposite doctrine to that of the honour-
able gentleman ; and also that all the taxes necessary to the
support of the state should be drawn directly from the land.

But as to political economy generally, upon what ground
could gentlemen pretend to depreciate its character, unless
they meant to deprecate the exercise of reasoning upon the
subject under the consideration of the committee! However,
in consistency with their system of depreciation as to political
economy, they had thought proper to treat wth levity the
treatise of Dr. Adam Smith, which was, in fact, but a collec-

THE CORN LAAVS. ,525

tion or digest of maxims, which, instead of being any innova-
tion, had long been held sacred among the best writers this
country had ever known. But it was also well known, that
the opinions contained in the work of Dr. Adam Smith were,
after full examination, recommended by the sanction of our
most distinguished statesmen, — by Mr. Pitt, for instance,
and also by Mr. Burke, who traced the history of Dr. Smith's
opinions, demonstrating that those opinions, instead of being,
as some alleged, mere plagiarisms from those of the French
economists, were the original growth of our own country,
from which they had been borrowed by the economists of
France. The justice, however, of Dr. Smith's great principles
was recognised by the statesman-like view of the right hon-
ourable opener of this question, who had not given the weight
of his authority to the untenable proposition, that because the
manufacturers enjoyed some protecting duties, the agricultu-
rists were entitled to the measure he proposed, which was a
kind of arsrumenlum ad hominem. Still less did the right
honourable gentleman manifest any disposition to support the
assertion, that the agriculturists suflered by the protecting
duties granted to the manufacturers ; and in what instance, he
would ask, could the British agriculturists be conceived so to
suffer? From what country could they obtain any article of
manufacture necessary for their consumption, at a cheaper
rate than they could purchase it at home, supposing trade per-
fectly free, and that protecting duties, as to manufactures,
were totally done away? Could coarse woollen cloihs, for
instance, be purchased cheaper any where than in England?
or could any other article be had on better terms elsewhere ?
The only article, indeed, which could be supposed cheaper
elsewhere w^as linen, which was the manufacture of Ireland.
For himself, however, he had no difficulty in declaring, that
all the protecting duties (as they were called) at present in
existence in this country, were but so many clogs and impedi-
ments to our commercial prosperity; and that, whatever might
be the gain, which must be partial and comparatively insigni-
ficant, derived probably to the most insignificant in trade, the:

526 , SPEECHES IN TARLIAMENT.

effect of the whole system must be, that the produce of our
natural wealth was considerably diminished.

But, reverting to the main question, and bearing in mind
the grounds stated by the right honourable opener, he main-
tained that no necessity was made out for any departure from
the main principles of trade, to the justice of which that right
honourable gentleman bore testimony. Tf the proposition
before the committee were merely a temporary measure, to
relieve any temporary pressure upon the farmers, he confessed
that he should have felt much more difficulty in opposing it ;
but, as a measure of permanent legislation, he could not hesi-
tate to enter his protest against it. Sympathy for the suffer-
ing of individuals would naturally dispose one to plead for
the former ; but every consideration of sound national policy,
which he was able to appreciate, urged him to resist the latter.
But the object of granting temporary relief to individual dis-
tress had been disclaimed by the advocates for the proposition
before the committee, who thought proper to rest their preten-
sions upon considerations of permanent policy ; and here he
was at issue with them. He was aware of the distress of the
agriculturists under existing circumstances, and he had all
due feeling for their situation ; but, then, he recollected the
cause of that situation, which recollection was necessary to a
due estimate of the policy of this measure. The present dis-
tress of the agriculturists was owing to the great stimulus
which the circumstances of the war had given to agriculture ;
which stimulus was now withdrawn. The operation of that
stimulus, which offered a strong proof of the prosperity and
health of our commercial system, encouraged the farmers to
offer exorbitant rents for land, and also to lay out large sums
upon that land ; they must naturally suffer by the cessation of
such a stimulus. They had, in fact, been too sanguine in
their speculations, and hence the losses of which they now
complained. But the farmers were not the only persons who
suffered from too extensive speculations. Such sufferings,
also, too frequently happened in every branch of trade, and
did it therefore follow that an application should be made to

THE CORN LAWS. 527

parliament to repair the loss? It would, indeed, be impossi-
ble for parliament to make good such losses; and it would be
unjust to make an attempt to withdraw from the profits of
other classes of the community, to repair the losses sustained
by any class of unsuccessful speculators.

But in considering the case of the agriculturists (as an ex-
ception was demanded in their favour), in looking at their
present difficulties or losses, the House was called upon, in
justice, to look also to the cause of that loss, which naturally
brought into view their antecedent profits. The most inter-
esting distress among the farmers — that which in his mind
was most entitled to commiseration, was certainly the case of
the agriculturists of Ireland : but that case also was the
result of the artificial stimulus given to Irish agriculture by
the peculiar circumstances of the war. No one, he believed,
felt a more lively concern for the interest of Ireland than that
of which he was sensible, and which should aKvays regulate
his conduct, as he thought it must the mind of every man who
duly appreciated the general interests of the empire. He was
therefore happy to witness the pregnant proof which the pre-
sent situation of Ireland afforded of its advancing prosperity.
For that situation served, in his view, to demonstrate that its
commercial enterprise had of late years been considerably
exerted, and that a great quantity of capital had been em-
ployed in that most useful branch of industry, its agricultural
pursuits. Ireland had therefore experienced a check from the
conclusion of peace — (a smile on the other side of the House)
— Gentlemen might smile, he said, but he would maintain
that this check afforded a proof of the advanced prosperity of
Ireland. For the present was notoriously the first instance on
record, in the history of Ireland, in which that country had ex-
perienced any check in its domestic circumstances, from the
conclusion of peace by the mother country ; and this check he
regarded as an evidence that it partook of our prosperity, the
interruption of which naturally occasioned a participation of
our losses. Then, as to the disadvantage resulting to the
lands lately applied to tillage in this country, upon which a
large sum must have been expended, he was fully aware that

528 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

that disadvantage was entitled to consideration. This dis-
advantage must be universally regretted. But what relief
could be expected by the sufferers from the proposed measure,
especially if it were true, as the advocates of this measure
alleged, that the effect of it must be to reduce the price of
corn ? According to the deposition of witnesses before the
committee, 965. per ([uarter was necessary to enable farmers to
grow that article ; nay, according to the allegation of some
gentlemen, less than 135s. would be insufficient ; and how
then, in the name of common sense, could the sum be deemed
an adequate remuneration for this species of culture ? Or
still more, how could the proposed regulation operate to
reduce the price of corn ? How, indeed, could gentlemen who
supported these depositions and allegations, plead for a mea-
sure so self-destructive as the present? The light lands, or
those lately devoted to agriculture, must still sutler all the dis-
tress that was deprecated, especially through the competition
of the more fertile soil of Ireland, and the richer lands of this
country; and the result must still be to throw those light
lands out of cultivation.

With respect to our independence of foreign supply, he was
ready to admit, that if a dependence upon foreign supply
were likely to be the result of the existing system, that likeli-
hood would form a legitimate ground for the proposed mea-
sure. [A.nd here the honourable and learned gentleman took
notice of the exception of Dr. Smith with regard to our navi-
gation law, which exception referred to a provision for our
national safety, which was, in all cases, a predominant con-
sideration. But returning to the apprehension of our depend-
ence upon a foreign supply of corn, the honourable and
learned member treated that apprehension as quite exaggerated
and visionary.] Indeed it had been, he observed, most tena-
ciously maintained by the advocates for this apprehension,
that it would be impossible for the whole navy of England to
import any very large proportion, much less an adequate sup-
ply of corn, for our subsistence. This, however, these gentle-
men seemed to feel an admission hostile to their own propo-
sition, and therefore, in order to take off the weight of such

THE CORN LAWS. 529

admission, tlioy asserted that even a small quantity of im-
ported corn would have a material effect upon the market
price. This, however, he could not admit. A comparatively
small quantity of imported corn might affect the market price
upon a particular day, or for a few days ; but the price must
ultimately and permanently depend upon the proportion of
the supply to the demand, and the proportion of supply from
abroad was in no degree likely to be considerable. But sup-
posing the supply to be even considerable, the apprehensions
expressed on this subject were still, in his mind, exceedingly
exaggerated and fallacious ; nor was it even probable that we
should have to depend upon foreign supply to such an extent
as to endanger the interests of our own agriculture. A great
deal of this apprehension had been propagated, which was nega-
tived by the papers on the table, especially with regard to the
supply derived from what was called our natural enemy. He
would readily admit, that if it could be rendered apparent,
that in any event we should have to depend upon France for
food, a protecting duty, as it was termed, should be imme-
diately granted to avert such a calamity; and to this grant he
would accede, not from any commercial jealousy, which he
should always deprecate, but from political jealousy, to which
it would, in such a case, be our duty to attend. But what
was the fact? Was France a corn-exporting country ? Did
it not appear from the papers on the table that our great
import of corn had been, not from France, but from Holland
and from Belgium, the sovereign of which was of our own
creation ? Thus we derived a supply of corn, not from a
natural enemy, as France was denominated, but from our
own probably permanent ally. But France could never be
regarded as a great exporting country of corn. If she were, it
would be a proof of her impoverishment; for no rich country
was ever a great exporter of corn. No ; the poor country was
always the exporter of that article to the rich, for which she
received manufactures in return. France had, in fact, become
for the last year an exporter of corn, in consequence of an
exceedingly redundant harvest, and from the same cause she
was an exporter in the year 1810. But France could never
VOL. IL 45

530 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

be expected to rival this country in agriculture ; for from every
information that had reached us, her system of agriculture
was exceedingly inferior to our own, while her grain was also
materially inferior in quality. How, then, could it be appre-
hended that we should have to depend upon that nation for
supply in any event, especially when we had to look not only
to Holland as a medium for furnishing the produce of the
banks of the Rhine, but to Flanders, to the Baltic, to Poland,
and to America also ? With a peace, indeed, so consolidated,
as the gentlemen on the other side promised, he thought all
apprehension on this score quite visionary. But even calcu-
lating upon the renewal of war, or the reappearance of some
extravagant tyrant, who, with a combination of all the powers
of Europe, should speculate upon our total exclusion from
continental commerce, he should still think such an apprehen-
sion groundless. For it was notorious from experience, that
even when the experiment of this exclusion was made, namely
from 1810 to 1812, a larger importation had taken place into
this country, especially from France, than was ever known
within the same compass at any former period. The appre-
hension, then, of depriving this country of foreign supply
must, under any circumstances, be regarded as totally chime-
rical. As to a provision to guard against fluctuation of prices,
which the advocates of the measure before the committee
promised, it would be found that for the last seven years,
when our importation of corn was greater than at any former
period, the fluctuation was much less than during any period
of the same duration since the Revolution ; and this fact he
had ascertained by examining the Eton tables. Within the
last seven years, too, it was notorious that our agriculture had
been in the most flourishing state, much more flourishing,
indeed, than when it was most the fashion to grant bounties
upon the export, and to impose restrictions upon the import
of corn. So much as to the pretence of a steady price, which
was looked for by some gentlemen as the result of the pro-
posed measure. In his opinion, however, the best security for
a steady price — that is, for a fair price to the consumer, was
not a measure the witnesses adduced to support which de-

THE CORN LAWS. 531

posed that 80.S-. or oven 9Gs. was necessary to enable the
farmer to grow corn, while its advocates argued that its ten-
dency would be to reduce the price of that article, but to leave
the dealer in corn subject to this impression, that if he raised
his price to an undue rate, corn would be imported. This
impression, he conceived, and common sense would sanction
the conception, would be the best means of keeping corn at a
fair price, and correcting all excesses. On these grounds he
felt himself called upon by an imperious sense of duty to
resist the proposition before the committee, more especially as
no ground of necessity was shown to support it, and as all
the arguments adduced in its favour appeared to him utterly
fallacious. At the same time he begged it to be understood,
that he was most anxious for the interest of agriculture, which
he conceived essentially important to our domestic trade,
compared to which indeed he regarded every other branch of
trade as nugatory. But the proposition before the committee
was in his view materially adverse to that interest.

Having said thus much as to agriculture, he thought it
proper, as connected with this subject, to advert shortly to the
state of our manufactures, the condition of our labourers in
husbandry, and the nature of our fmances. As to the first of
these, namely, our manufactures, he would ask, was it neces-
sary at this moment to enhance the price of our manufactured
articles ? The necessary requisites to enable us to preserve
our superiority in our manufactures were two, capital and
skill. These were not necessarily domiciled in this country ;
but might, like any of the other goods of fortune, take to
themselves wings and fly away; and it was no unfair or un-
reasonable thing to conjecture, that if to the difficulties under
which our manufactures now laboured, were added the pro-
posed regulations as to the price of corn, those would be
speedily followed by a departnre from this country of the capi-
tal and skill which had hitherto given life to our manufactures,
seeing we were about in the same breath to multiply the
taxes on our manufactures, and to increase the price of corn.
The second point to which he had referred, was the condition

532 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

of labourers engaged in the aflairs of husbandry. This, he
agreed, did not depend on any defect in the system itself, but
on the poor laws, and the mal-administration of thena, by
which part of the wages of the agricultural labourers was in
some districts paid out of the poor-rates. There could, he
thought, be no difficulty in framing a law to reach this sub-
ject; but certain gentlemen thought it more meritorious to
pay such labourers out of the poor-rates, than to suffer an
advance of wages to take place ; and the very same persons
who were outbidding each other in the purchase of leases of
lands, seemed the most misgiving as to the price of labour.
It was the high price of corn which had produced this, and
would continue it. There was no other way of liberating our
peasantry from a state of villanage than by restraining the
price of corn. What could be more degrading than that a
man in the vigour of healthful labour should receive the allow-
ance of a pauper? It reduced our free labourers to a state of
bondage; and this enormous mischief the present measure
had the strongest tendency to increase. The third point to
which he had alluded, was that of our financial arrangements.
The price of the necessaries of life must either enter into
consideration in all the arrangements of government, or of the
greater part of them. It might be asked, How would you
pay the dividends on the national debt, unless you were to
keep the rate of provisions high ? To this he could only say,
that it was true the country had raised large sums at a dimin-
ished rate, and that they would have to pay them at a higher
rate on account of the artificial state of their money; but was
any man hardy enough to say, that that artificial state ought
to be kept up? . If so, that man must be guilty of a continual
fraud on those great creditors of the country on whom this
deceit had originally been practised. Observe, then, what
was our situation. With exhausted manufactures, with a
debt accumulating out of all proportion, and with our labour-
ers paid out of our poor-rates, were we still to lengthen out
this artificial mode of proceeding? The man who could look
such a situation in the face, had stronger nerves than he had.

THE CORN LAWS. 533

The best course, according to his idea, was to do nothing.
Eighty shillings per (quarter was a minimum whieh, he was
satisfied, even from the evidence before the committee, it was
not necessary to fix ; but the ?ninimum might have been safely
fixed at a much smaller sum.*

* Oh tlio 20th of jrarch, tlio Common Council of tho City of London voted tlmnks to
Alexander Barincr, Esq. and Francis Honicr, Esq., " for their able and imlefatigable
exertions in opposing the corn bill in the honourable house of coramous." — Kv.

45*

534 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

YI. JURY TRIAL IN SCOTLAND.

6th March, 1815.

Tins speech is not mentioned in Hansard's Debates; but
Mr. Horner, in a postscript to a letter to Mr. Murray, dated
the 3d of April, says : — " Kirkman Finlay urged me to give
him a note of what I was surprised into saying upon the Jury
Bill, when Sir George Clerk presented his petition from Mr.
Justice Macfarlane and others against that measure ; and he
now informs me that he had sent me a Glasgow newspaper
in which the note I gave him is printed."

The copy of the speech, here given, is that which appeared
in the Glasgow Courier of the 25th of March. It was intro-
duced with the following note from the Editor: —

" The speech of Mr. Horner, in the House of Commons, on
the reading of a petition from a number of the freeholders and
justices of the peace of the county of Edinburgh, against
some of the clauses of the Scotch Jury Bill, having been
imperfectly reported in the London papers, we are happy to
have it in our power to give a correct statement of what he
said, which we have received from a gentleman who was pre-
sent on the occasion."

Mr. Horner said, that nothing could be more unfounded
than the statement made in behalf of the petitioners, that
time had not been allowed for the consideration of this mea-
sure. The Bill had been introduced in the other House on
the 1st day of December last, and copies of it were in circu-
lation through Scotland before Christmas; there had been the
whole interval, an unusually long adjournment, for the con-
tents of the Bill to be examined, as he knew they had been
with the utmost care, and with the best results, by those per-
sons in Scotland, who were most capable of understanding
and discussing them, and of stamping, by their approbation,
an authoritalive sanction on a legislative measure of this de-
scription. It was in consequence of discussion in Scotland

JURY TRIAL IN SCOTLAND. 535

that Ihe Bill had received many useful and important amend-
ments in detail. Nothing could be less reasonable, than to
suppose, because such suggestions were adopted into the Bill,
and other alterations for the better occurred in its progress
through the other House, that therefore further delay may be
asked for, until all these alterations might be considered by
the country at large. Such an expectation was wholly un-
warranted by the practice of Parliament, the discretion of
which would in a manner be superseded, if in any stage of a
Bill when amendments were made, there was to be a halt
until an appeal could be had to persons at a distance. Before
this petition came in, the committee had been postponed to
the 4th of April, and he trusted that beyond that day there
would be no further procrastination.

Objections were made in this petition to three different
points in the detail of the Bill, on which he would take the
present opportunity of flaying a few words. The first re-
spected the qualification of the judges of the new court ; one
of whom, as it now stands, may be an English barrister, not
legally qualified to be appointed a senator of the College of
Justice. Upon this point, as he had hinted on a former ocrca-
sion, his opinion coincided with that which was intimated in
this petition ; and when the House went into a committee, he
would propose to amend the Bill in that respect, and to
relieve it from what he thought a well-founded objection.

lie knew well, that like all the other provisions, this one in
particular had originated in the most sincere and conscientious
anxiety to render the Bill effectual for its great purpose, of
engrafting trial by jury upon the law of Scotland; with such
regulations in the first instance as were calculated to ensure
success in so material a change. But after much reflection
he had convinced himself, that it would be unadvisable to
have an opening for the nomination of any person to be a
judge of the jury court, who was not qualified according to
the present law to be a senator of the College of Justice. It
seemed to him of the highest expediency, looking as far for-
ward as one could, that the independent jurisprudence of
Scotland, according to its ancient custom of property and

536 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

private right, should be maintained unimpaired and unmixed,
entire and ch^ar. The integrity and independency of that
law are a fundamental part of the constitution of these king-
doms, solemnly fixed at the Union, wisely so fixed. The
diversity of laws, in kirigdoms united like these, though at-
tended with some inconvenience, is a disadvantage not to be
compared in magnitude with the evils of uncertainty and
fluctuation in tiie rules of property and private rights. Upon
the uniformity and steadiness of the leading doctrines of the
common law in every country, the eificacy and authority of
justice mainly depend ; and there is no reasonable security for
the uniform tradition of the great rules and doctrines of law,
except in the lineal succession of judges professionally bred
and practised in that particular system. Men taken from the
practice of another system must be expected to carry with
them the habits of that which they leave, and cannot refrain
from inoculating their settled notions upon the new one to
which they are appointed. Such foreign admixture would
throw loose settled authorities and known rules, and no ade-
quate compensation can be gained. The excellencies that
are proper to separate codes of municipal justice are not com-
municable in this way to each other, for the merit really lies
not in a single principle of the law taken by itself, but in its
harmony with many others, which in process of time have
gained a mutual adaptation.

He said that one of the reasons which weighed jnost with
him, for giving Scotland the benefit of juries in civil causes,
was that he regarded that form of trial as so congenial to the
spirit of the Scotch jurisprudence, that he expected it would
be found in the end to contribute to the preservation of that
jurisprudence in all its peculiar principles and maxims. But
to make sure of this, he was satisfied it was necessary that
juries should not be set to the trial of issues, except under the
guidance and discretion of judges well versed and skilled in
all ihe doctrines and learning of the law of that country.

With regard to the next objection urged in the petition
against the agreement required of the jury in their verdict, he
entirely concurred in the sentiments of the right honourable

JURY TRIAL IN SCOTLAND. 537

gentleman (Mr. Dundas), that this requisite was of the very
essence of the measure, and that if the prejudices of the
country, for want of information, were as strong as was repre-
sented, it would be better to postpone to another time this
great improvement, than to introduce the institution into
Scotland mutilated, and wanting what gives it all its vigour.
We have known it in this country for more than seven centu-
ries, a larger experience than the usual course of human atfairs
admits of; and we were not prepared to admit to modern
casuistry, that in this long tract of time all the juries of Eng-
land had been administeringjustice through perjury. No one
who had a practical knowledge of English juries in their
actual operation, entertained the slightest doubt, that the
agreement required of them before their verdict can be taken,
conduces to the true and just trial of the issue, to the more
patient, considerate, and reasonable discussion of the evidence
among themselves, and to the more satisfactory and conclu-
sive authority of the verdict when pronounced. It was upon
the experience of England, that this noble institution was
recommended to be adopted, or rather to be revived, in Scot-
land ; but it would be casting aside the true result of that ex-
perience, if a tribunal of quite another constitution should be
introduced.

If the Scots will have verdicts to be decided by a majority
of the jurymen, they ought to be made aware, that in that
case they are receiving a novelty which has no experience in
its favour, and which assuredly is not the trial by jury, that
we know in England. But Scotland itself is not without its
own experience in favour of unanimous verdicts. For a hun-
dred years and more, they have had a court of exchequer in
that country, in which all verdicts must be so taken ; and the
clause complained of in the present Bill is in the very words
of the act of Queen Anne, which established the court of ex-
chequer. The most important of all issues that can be sub-
mitted to a jury, the deliverance between the king and a
subject indicted of high treason, must, in Scotland, as in Eng-
land, be found by a jury all agreed in their verdict, whether it
be a verdict of guilty or not guilty. Even in the court of

538 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

justiciary, a recent act of parliament, allowing of oral verdicts
when the jury are agreed, shows that there is a tendency in
the modern course of the criminal law of Scotland, which that
useful statute will confirm, in favour of verdicts formed by
agreement.

The last objection made by these petitioners to the present
Bill, was, that it did in terms confine the trial by jury to mere
issues in matters of fact, as it was originally expressed.
There was a danger, the petition would have it, that Scotch
juries would be allowed to try what the petition calls general
issues. He said he should be apt to conjecture, that this ob-
jection did not come from any person who knew much either
of the law of England, or the law of Scotland. The alteration
of expression that had been made in the Bill, by leaving out
the words " matters of fact," was necessary to render it con-
sistent, and to render its enactments applicable to their pur-
poses.

If the jury could never have any occasion to be directed in
matters of law, why any provisions for securing to parties an
appeal against misdirections of the judge at the trial? No
human being would ever think of ascertaining, by the verdict
of a jury, any thing but fact. Yet it required very little in-
sight into law, to be made sensible, that perfectly to detect
the fact of an issue from all matter of law, was in most cases
a process of nicety, and in many instances was wholly im-
practicable. To say that no issue shall be sent to a jury, in
which they can possibly stand in need of the direction of the
judge in points of law, is nearly equivalent to a negative of
all trials of issues by a jury. It is the business of the judge
to clear for the jury the mixed question of law and fact, when
the question for their consideration is unavoidably a mixed
one, as it is the duty of the jury to take the law from the di-
rection of the judge. To eflfect the separation of facts in an
issue from the law bearing upon them is, as far as it can be
effected, the province of what is technically called pleading,
which more or less forms a part of every system of law, but
has never been carried to any great degree of accuracy and
precision, except where trial by jury is established. And one

JURY TRIAL IN SCOTLAND. 539

of tlio chief advantages of civil trial by jury, with a view to
fixing the rules of law with greater certainty, is, that more
than any other contrivance, it facilitates the analysis of com-
plex issues into the matter of fact and matter of law. This
was an objection which could not be insisted upon by any
lawyer who was friendly to the object of the Bill, and under-
stood it.

He concluded with expressing his conviction, that the final
object which the Bill had in view, was the greatest improve-
ment of which the administration of justice in Scotland was
susceptible; and that the present provisions of the Bill, with
the single exception he had before adverted to, were framed
with much wisdom for attaining that object. It had cost him
at first some difficulty to assent to the discretionary power,
which is entrusted to the Court of Session of directing issues.
But he saw that the change could not with safety be made,
unless it was made gradually and experimentally under the
eye of Parliament watching the progress of the experiment,
and he was reconciled to this unavoidable compromise of
principle by the express declaration on the face of the Bill,
that it was only for the period of this temporary act, and for
the sake of trying the experiment with more caution, that a
discretion of such a nature was thus entrusted to the court.

540 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

TIT. TREATIES OF PEACE.

20tli February, 1816.
(Vol. II. p. 340.)

Mr. Horner began by apologising for troubling the House
at a late hour, and for entering on a discussion so entirely
above his powers. Nothing, he said, would have induced him
to do so, but an anxiety to have his opinions on the subject
of the treaties clearly understood ; and though these opinions
must, in many material points, difier from the opinions of
some who had preceded him, yet there was one point on
which, though it might seem already hackneyed, he wished
for a moment to touch ; for, whatever his opinions might be
as to the principle of the war, and the negotiations by which
it had been terminated, he was not slower than any other man
to exult at the splendid success of our efforts in arms. Our
gallant servants had performed their duty with an heroism
unexampled ; they had not only given us a leader of unrivalled
eminence, but had placed the character of the British army
above all comparison. It had, since the Battle of Waterloo,
been admitted, even by the confession of an enemy, that the
infantry of England had no equal. He did look on this as a
great acquisition of glory, a great acquisition of strength ;
and his prayer was, that the military strength thus acquired
might be properly made use of. The proper use of that
strength was, first, to reserve it for the defence of our country;
and, next, in foreign interposition, when that interposition
should be clearly and absolutely necessary to our welfare;
but we were to remember that it would be employed un-
necessarily in continental quarrels, or in projects of unjustifi-
able ambition. It was obvious that they had mixed up the
whole of their transactions with French politics ; and though
it was impossible for the House not to entertain some feelings
on that subject, yet they ought to interfere with it as little as
possible. By an unnecessary interposition, they would be
unavoidably led to involve themselves in the factions and

TREATIES OF PEACE. 541

views of their neighbours, and be drawn out of the circle; of
their own aflairs, which were quite enough for them without
considering whether this or that form of government was
most beneficial to the people. Ilis main objections, however,
to the treaties were, that they did not provide that security
which the country had a right to expect; and it demanded
the most serious consideration, that in prosecuting the war to
an end, his Majesty's ministers had at last disclosed that im-
portant project which they had so anxiously disavowed at
first; namely, the determination of forcing the Bourbon family
on the throne of France, contrary to the faith of the crown,
contrary to the pledge which had been given to parliament,
and in direct violation of the solemn engagement and promise
to the nation of France at large. On former occasions the
noble lord had expressly avowed, that the professed object of
the war was of a very different nature. The idea of forcing
any particular person on the French had been repeatedly dis-
claimed, on the principle that it was carrying their measm-es
further than the justice of the case allowed : but now, for-
sooth, it was openly, and without a blush, acknowledged, that
however the national honour had been violated, it had always
been considered that such a result of the contest would be
satisfactory. It was now too late, indeed, to say, that they
had not resolved to interfere with the internal government of
France ; but they excused themselves by saying, that they
might interpose on a necessary occasion.

It must, indeed, be within the recollection of the House,
that when it was put to the noble lord, whether the restora-
tion of the Bourbons was the object of the war, he distinctly
and repeatedly disclaimed it. It was notorious, that upon
this understanding, several gentlemen in that House voted for
the war. Yet it was now evident from the treaties upon the
table, that the restoration of the Bourbons and their mainte-
nance upon the throne of France, was really and truly the
object of the war. Why, then, was not this object openly
and manfully avowed at the outset? With what view was it
disguised? Why, obviously for the purpose of obtaining
votes in that House, and practising delusion upon England,

VOL. II. 46

542 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

upon France, and upon Europe. The effect of this delusion
and duplicity upon France was, as he understood from the
best authority, to dispose the well-informed and the reflecting
part of France, who belonged to no faction — who were as
hostile to Bonaparte as they were indifferent to the Bourbons
— to look to the allied armies as deliverers, as about to afford
the French nation an opportunity of choosing a government
agreeable to its own wishes and interests. The effect was
indeed such as to neutralise a great and respectable proportion
of the French, who, instead of supporting Bonaparte, rather
endeavoured to keep down the spirit of the people, and induce
them to confide in the declarations of the allies. Many
Frenchmen believed those declarations, confirmed as they so
often were by the solemn pledges of the ministers of England.
But the believers were dupes. For himself as well as for
several of his friends, he could state that he never was duped
by these declarations, or by the pledges of the noble lord,
because he always thought that to be the sole object of the
war, which events had demonstrated. But he would ask
some gentlemen in that House who thought differently, who
grounded their votes upon an entire credit in the professions
of the noble lord, how they now felt? He would appeal to
the whole House, to parliament, and the country, what ought
to be the feeling of a proud and honest nation, tenacious of its
character for good faith, upon comparing the pledges of its
government at the commencement of the war, with the con-
duct of that government at its conclusion. Was there to be
no faith, then, in these solemn promises? Could it be a satis-
factory feeling to any honest member, who possessed the
generous spirit of an Englishman, to know that the engage-
ments of ministers with the French nation had not been kept ?
His Majesty's government had declared manfully, boldly, and
plainly, what their purposes were ; but it was one of the most
melancholy features of the times that the bonds of political
faith were not so strong as they used to be. Whatever doubt
might exist in some minds as to the import of the declaration
on which the war was commenced, there could be no possible
misunderstanding as to the object of the treaties. It was no

TREATIES OF PEACE. 543

longer to get rid of the dangerous ambition of Bonaparte ; it
was not to prevent the military power of France from en-
croaching on neighbouring states. No! it was to maintain
the family of the Bourbons on the throne, whatever might be
the feelings of the people towards them. If it were pre-
tended, as he understood it had been somewhere said, that the
conduct of the French army in invading the Netherlands
released the Allies from their pledges not to force a govern-
ment upon France, he would ask the noble lord and his col-
leagues, whether they, who always alleged that the French
people were hostile to Bonaparte, and that he was supported
only by the army, could consistently maintain that the con-
duct of that army could release the Allies from their solemn
pledges to the people, not to force any particular government
upon them ? But yet this government was imposed upon
France, and it appeared that with a view to maintain it, cer-
tain precautionary measures, as the noble lord termed them,
were adopted. Among those measures a large pecuniary con-
tribution was levied, and this contribution the noble lord
called, rather singularly, a main feature of the tranquillising
policy to be acted upon towards France. This was really a
most extraordinary view, perhaps peculiar to the mind of the
noble lord; for it was the first time he had heard, that
to subject any people to a large pecuniary contribution was
a good mode of producing their tranquillity. Certainly
the noble lord could not have learned that doctrine in
England, where a large pecuniary contribution was not
very apt to produce popular tranquillity. Indeed, he rather
apprehended that an opposite feeling would arise in this coun-
try, if that contribution were enforced by a foreign army.
Why, then, should the noble lord calculate upon a different
result in France ? But upon this point it seemed that accord-
ing to the doctrine of some gentlemen, the contribution raised
in France, instead of falling into the pockets of the people,
and being placed under the controul of parliament, was to
become the property of the privy purse, to be applied, per-
haps, to enable the Pope to carry home some works of art
from Paris, or to erect a statue to Henry IX. (Cardinal York.)

54*4 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

He wished, however, that this novel doctrine might now be
repelled, as inconsistent with the constitution and laws of this
country. But as a further precautionary measure to keep the
Bourbons upon the throne, it appeared that 150,000 men, com-
posed of different nations, were placed in France. So it was
calculated that the presence of this foreign force, under the
command of a general, who was a native of a country always
the rival of France, was likely by degrees to reconcile the
French people to the government which that force had imposed
upon them. But what could be the character of the minds
which entertained such a calculation ? Would not every ra-
tional being rather conclude that the presence of such a force
must serve to form a perpetual fester in the breast of France,
instead of contributing to the tranquillity and contentment of
that country? But, according to the express opinion of some
gentlemen, that which was most galling and offensive to the
French formed an argument to justify the expectation of order
and repose. Those only, however, who entertained such a sin-
gular notion could, he believed, concur in the views of the
Allies in placing an armed force in France. And what estimate
must those gentlemen have formed of the character of the
French people — distinguished as that people always were for
national pride and military spirit? How, he would ask, was
that proceeding likely to operate upon them, which was calcu-
lated to rouse the most sluggish nation upon earth ? How
were the French people to feel towards a sovereign twice
forced upon them by an army of foreign bayonets ? For when
that army was on the first instance withdrawn, that sovereign
was soon compelled to quit the country ; and he would put it
to the candour of any man, if the French people were friendly
to that sovereign, why should it be necessary to maintain him
on the throne by the assistance of a foreign army ? The di-
lemma was obvious; — either the French were friendly to the
king, or they were not. Tf the former, the foreign army was
unnecessary to the maintenance of the king; but if unfriendly,
the presence of this army was calculated to augment their dis-
like. For what could be more galling to a Frenchman, than to
suppose his king guilty of that which was the greatest treason

TREATIES OF PEACE. 545

any sovereign could commit, namely, that of inviting the assist-
ance of a foreign force? While the French were our active
enemies in war, we must rejoice in their defeat; but now
that they were completely fallen, must not every considerate
man feel for a people so circumstanced ? Was there, besides,
no danger to be apprehended from the result of a national
movement against the army by which the French were so
grievously oppressed? The great power of the Allies would
no doubt defeat such a movement ; and could any man doubt
that the eflect of such defeat would be the dismemberment
and partition of France ? What, then, would be the conse-
quences ? It would, perhaps, be said that no danger whatever
was to be apprehended from the ambition of any of the
Allies — that none of them were capable of meditating
any wrong. But the noble lord had written much against the
plans of aggrandizement entertained by Prussia. His letter
to Count Hardenberg, on this subject, was in the recollection
of the House, as was the treaty which he concluded in January,
1815, with France and Austria, to guard against the danger of
those plans. And here he must observe in passing, that wiiile
the noble lord himself declaimed against the views of Prussia,
he was quite in a rage if any observation whatever against any
of our foreign allies happened to proceed from the opposition
side of the House. But to return to France. If that country
should be dismembered — if it should cease to be a substantial
power in Europe, by the division of its territory among the
despots of the North, what then would be the state of this
country ? In such an event what must be the amount of our
establishments, both naval and military, in order to guard
against the dangers naturally to be apprehended from the
occupation of France by those formidable powers ? Now, as
to another point. It was stated by the noble lord, that he
was pressed by several reflecting persons in France to secure
the guarantee of the Allies to the maintenance of the con-
stitutional charter. But to this the noble lord refused to
accede, while an unreserved guarantee was granted to maintain
the king upon the throne. No stipulation was made to support
the constitution, which, by the bye, had since been repeatedly

46*

546 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

violated. While every arrangement was made that appeared
to the Allies necessary to provide for the maintenance of the
king, nothing was done to preserve the privileges of the
people. The Allies, in their eagerness to support the former,
overlooked the conciliation of the latter, although that con-
ciliation would have been the best policy. But such policy
was not within the consideration of despots. — Here he felt it
necessary to make a few remarks upon the assertion of the
noble lord, that the whigs of the present day forgot or de-
parted from the doctrines of those whom the noble lord called,
their progenitors. But this assertion was grossly erroneous,
as would appear upon a review of the address moved by Mr.
Fox in 1793. For in this address that great man did not
propose to protest against our interference in the affairs of
any foreign state as a general principle, but against such
interference under existing circumstances. The effort, there-
fore, to fix any imputation upon those whom the noble lord
denominated the modern whigs, by contrasting their conduct
with that of the old whigs, was totally ineffectual. The
noble lord's cry of victory was quite groundless — was
indeed clumsy. But it was strange that the noble lord
should quote precedents from those whom he never before
affected to admire. It happened, however, that in all the
noble lord's reference to the conduct of the whigs, he be-
trayed a total want of historical accuracy. This want of
accuracy was indeed particularly evident in the noble lord's
reference to the quadruple and triple alliances, for neither
furnished any precedent in favour of the noble lord's cause.
On the contrary, it was notorious that, in the former, the whigs
obtained a guarantee from the Allies, that they should not in-
terfere with the right of this country to choose its own govern-
ment, which choice was made decidedly against the doctrine
of legitimacy and the divine right of kings ; for this country
on that occasion dismissed king James with his hereditary
rights, and selected William, with a view to establish a govern-
ment congenial to the constitution and assent of the people.
Then, again, as to the triple alliance, the object of that con-
federacy formed by the whigs, was to withstand the principle

TRExVTIES OF TEACE. 547

of legitimacy by preventing the House of Bourbon from be-
coming possessed of the throne of Spain. How, then, could
either of those alliances be said to furnish any precedent in
favour of the conduct of the noble lord and the AUies, in
forcing a government upon France according to the doctrine
of legitimacy ? But there was a precedent on the? occasion of
the triple alliance, which the noble lord might have quoted in
support of his views : for Louis XIV. at that time sought to
force a government u]ion Spain, according to the principle of
legitimacy ; and the noble lord, in overlooking this circum-
stance, showed that he was quite as ill versed in tory as he
was in whig precedents. The noble lord should, therefore,
before he ventured to quote again, study history with more
attention. But, with respect to the principle of legitimacy,
he fully concurred in what the House had heard go eloquently
urged in an early stage of the debate by an honourable mem-
ber (Mr. Law) upon that subject, namely, that hereditary
right was not essential to the maintenance of monarchy. It
was, in fact, but subsidiary to that object, as our own histofy
demonstrated. For the maintenance of this principle was
subordinate to the preservation of the constitution and laws
of any country, and meant not that the direct lineal descend-
ant should be preferred, but that some such member of the
family of the monarch should be selected, as might be best dis-
posed and best calculated to maintain the laws and liberties
of the country. This was the true sound doctrine sanctioned
by the wise example of England. But the sole object of the
late war and of the treaties which followed it manifestly was,
to place a monarch upon the throne of France, without any
regard to the laws, the liberties, or the wishes of the people.
The restoration of that monarch was, no doubt, thought a
most desirable object, with a view to re-establish the peace of
Europe, by some great statesman, both in that and the other
house of parliament, who maintained that this object ought to
have been avowed at the outset as the great end of the war.
But this object was disguised by the noble lord from the con-
sideration of the House, although it was now evident that it
was really the chief end of the war. The noble lord, no

548 SPEECHES IN PAKLIAMENT.

doubt, also wished to put down all the principles of the
Revolution, which he might conceive a very desirable end,
and it was consistent with his views that every thing that
could be accomplished should be done for sovereigns, and
nothing for the people. That such was the intention was
pretty evident from what had taken place within the last two
years. A great statesman had often observed, that of all
revolutions a restoration was the greatest, and that of all in-
novators an arbitrary monarch was the most dangerous. This,
indeed, was fully evinced in what had taken place in Wurtem-
berg, in Prussia, and in certain states upon the Rhine, where
nothing whatever of right was restored to the people, while
the authority of sovereigns, whether crowned since or before
the Revolution, was established and confirmed. The total
disregard, indeed, of popular rights was manifested in various
parts of the recent arrangements ; but it was sufficient to
refer to the instances of Venice and Genoa. But the most
odious part of the late arrangements, which appeared from a
tr'baty on the table, was, the league of arbitrary sovereigns to
meet annually for the purpose of considering their interests ;
for what rational man could doubt what such sovereisrns
would, in the long run, consider their interests, how they
would decide upon every indication of popular feeling, or
upon any movement in favour of popular principles? The
noble lord even, who was the advocate of every act of those
sovereigns — who was ready to take up the gauntlet in that
House for every one of them, could not be much at a loss to
decide upon their probable views, if he would only take the
trouble of looking with but common attention to history.
Let him look, for instance, to the conduct of Austria towards
Hungary and the Low Countries; let him look at the con-
duct of three of those sovereigns with respect to Poland.
Hence it might be concluded how these sovereigns were likely
to decide for their own interests, and against the privileges of
the people. But it appeared, from the noble lord's own state-
ment, how these sovereigns felt with regard to popular privi-
leges, from the jealousy which they expressed respecting the
freedom of debate in that House. He should like to know

TREATIES OF PEACE. 549

whether these sovereigns expressed that jealousy in the noble
lord's presence, and whether they obtained his acquiescence.
It would, indeed, be surprising if the noble lord, who had
himself acquired so much distinction as a parliamentary
orator, especially in favour of popular privileges, and who was
said to have made such long speeches to these sovereigns
themselves, no doubt in the same strain, could silently listen
to such an expression of jealousy with regard to the freedom
of the British parliament. Yet the noble lord had observed,
that these arbitrary monarchs were truly indisposed to follow
up some arrangements which they had in contemplation for
the establishment of popular privileges, in consequence of
some speeches in that House. What a compliment did the
noble lord thus record in favour of the virtue and firmness of
these sovereigns. So, they were dissuaded from doing that
which they themselves thought proper, in consequence of
parliamentary speeches in England ! They declined to do
right, because some of them might have been censured for
doing wrong — because, for instance, such an able senator as
the late Mr. Whitbread — because that great man, who had,
perhaps, more of the good man in his composition than any
great man that ever existed, felt it his duty to expose and re-
probate some act of oppression or injustice. He trusted,
however, that such a feeling of duty would ever be found to
prevail in that House. But, seriously, could it be believed
that the sovereigns alluded to could have been prevented from
making arrangements in favour of popular liberty, by any
thing that happened to fall from an obscure minority in that
House, seconded as their disposition must have been by the
noble lord himself at the head of his immense majorities ?
The opinions of these military despots, on this, as well as
upon other subjects, he entirely disregarded. No prospect
could be entertained that any thing would be done by them for
the rights of mankind. His hopes of improvement were de-
rived from a different quarter. They were not directed to in-
novation, but to a beneficial change effected through the me-
dium of constitutional organs, and the wholesome operation
of public opinion. Even though there was reason to believe

550 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

that the sovereigns appointed their meetings with no pre-
concerted designs against the liberties of the world — even
although they formed no deliberate conspiracy against the
rights of their subjects, still he could not but view the close
association, that would appear to be established between such
great military powers, without great jealousy. The great ob-
ject of our late struggle was avowed to be the destruction of
the military principle in Europe, which was incompatible with
the liberties, the happiness, and the social tranquillity of man-
kind. By unparalleled efforts, by persevering and heroic
sacrifices, we had extinguished the great military despotism,
which agitated and conquered and oppressed the nations of
the Continent; but was the situation of Europe much im-
proved, if the present system was to be carried into complete
effect, and the late arrangements were henceforward to be
universally adhered to ? We had, indeed, annihilated the
most extensive, the universally felt military despotism, but
there were now three or four to spring up and to occupy its
place. Their union, for purposes connected with their own
support and extension, might be nearly as dangerous as the
one from which we congratulated ourselves on being delivered.
These military sovereigns were to meet and consult for their
common security or mutual interests, and nothing could be
done, or permitted to exist in Europe, without their consent.
[The hon. and learned gentleman then went into an examina-
tion of the securities established in the treaties.] He wished
to meet the question of security fairly and impartially ; but
he could not help inquiring at first, what were the evils
against which security and guarantee were required ? What
were we to guard against ? We were at the end of five and
twenty years of convulsion, revolution, and war. In that
period the institutions of society, the political arrangements,
and the relative condition of the different orders in the civil
state, had undergone great changes. A new spirit was cre-
ated, and had operated powerfully in bringing about the
present circumstances. There might be different views enter-
tained, and there were certainly very different opinions de-
livered on our present situation. Some thought that the revo-

TREATIES OF PEACE. 551

lutionary spirit, which produced such atrocities in its first dis-
phiy and subsequent operations, still existed in France in all
its malignity, and that its existence, in any degree, was incon-
sistent with national tranquillity or civil order. This opinion
had been declared by many members in the House, and was
entertained by a great party out of it ; but he thought that it
was entertained upon false and narrow views. There were
other persons who took views entirely opposite, but equally
distant from reason and sound policy. They would not be
satisfied, if France did not at once carry into practice all those
ideas of political freedom that they entertained : they would
not be contented with less than seeing France in possession of
all those institutions, and that free constitution, that this
country enjoyed, without taking into consideration the differ-
ence that existed between the state and the ideas of the two
nations. It was needless to say that he disapproved of both
these extremes. Whether the Revolution in France was good
or bad, whether it had contributed to promote the liberties and
rights of the nation or not, it could not be denied that there
had arisen out of it a state of things which could not be al-
tered, a spirit which could not be entirely extinguished. If
the restoration of the Bourbons proceeded upon the suppo-
sition that every thing was to be restored to its former con-
dition, and that every new interest was to be destroyed, the
project could not be realised ; and those who entertained it
were not aware of the obstacles they would have to encounter
in attempting its execution. Every thing was changed in the
Revolution — property had been transferred to new hands —
the people had acquired new ideas — the privileged orders had
been abolished, or their claims reduced — political institu-
tions were altered, and a new distribution of political power
had established a spirit of inquiry, and a disposition to dis-
cuss the conduct of rulers was every where diffused. It was
difficult to calculate the power of these changes. We might
guard against the effects of them, but we could not bring
things back to their former situation. Happily this was not
necessary for our security, as it certainly was not practicable;
in its execution. The real security which was required from

552 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

France, after the destruction of that nnilitary monarchy which
oppressed the greatest part of the continent of Europe, com-
bined the integrity of that Idngdom with the establishment of
a government agreeably to the wishes, and deserving of the
confidence of the people. The hon. and learned gentleman
said he would decline entering upon a discussion of the other
kinds of security required against France. The question of
territorial cession had been discussed at great length, and he
would merely state, that in his opinion any attempt to dis-
member France, instead of being likely to afford any security
for the continuance of peace, would be the certain source of
inquietude and danger. Pie would not enter upon the pro-
priety of demanding a barrier on the side of the Netherlands,
as that seemed to be of the same nature with territorial ces-
sions ; but he would say that he would place no reliance on
any guarantee founded on the basis of reduction or dismem-
berment. There was no chance of the stability of peace, if
guarantees were sought for in measures that must be galling
and irritating to the French people ; there was no chance of
continued tranquillity but in conciliatory arrangements ; there
was no chance of reconciling them to Europe but by allowing
them to establish the government they liked. We could
never rationally entertain confidence in the pacific dispositions
of people on whom we forced a government by conquest,
which we maintained by arms. The sentiments of the people
could not manifest themselves while a powerful army occu-
pied a part of their territory, and might be called in to repress
them. There had been a good deal said by a right hon.
friend of ' his (Mr. Elliot) concerning the Chamber of Depu-
ties ; but he could not agree with him in supposing, that that
body could be considered as an organ for the expression of
popular feeling and opinion. How was the Chamber elected ?
It was elected by the influence of the royal power — it was
filled by that execrable person Fouchd, a name connected with
the greatest atrocities of his country. That immaculate
statesman, during the short period that he served his sover-
eign, had performed for him the office of selecting the depu-
ties. The French Revolution had exhibited many scenes of

TREATIES OF PEACE. 553

cruelty, atrocity, and horror, and its principles had been often
dishonoured by the profligacy of those who held them, or
professed to carry them into execution ; but it arose at first
from a love of liberty, and had been attended by consequences
of the most important kind. Any man who had examined
the state of France before the Revolution, and after it, would
perceive the good effects that it had produced. The great
body of the people, whose interests were the most important,
were raised by it in education, in character, in property, and
in independence. No revolution since the Protestant Reform-
ation appeared so important as that of France. The people
of France might, therefore, expect that some attention would
be paid to their wishes, and that all the advantages for which
they had suffered would not be extorted from them. They
might expect that they should be allowed a free constitution,
and would it be honourable in us to obstruct them in that
object ? The first men in this country had anticipated great
good from the Revolution. Having thus delivered his opinion
on our foreign policy, he would refrain at that late hour from
any discussion on our military establishments to support it.

After what I have said of the impression this speech had
made (page 341,) had been printed, I was favoured with the
following extract from a letter addressed by John Whishaw,
Esq., to Thomas Smith, Esq., of Easton-Grey, Wilts, dated
the 2Stli of February, 1816.

Speaking of the debates on the treaties, he says, — " But
the most fortunate circumstance in these debates, and which
has contributed more than any thing else to keep up the
spirits of the Opposition, was the admirable speech of Horner ;
which, both in the style, manner, and, above all, in the excellent
principles with which it abounded, was universally acknowl-
edged to be one of the completest performances that has
been witnessed in parliament for a great number of years. It
derived great weight from the opinion universally and justly

VOL. II. 47

554 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

entertained of the sincerity and high honour of the speaker;
and produced so considerable an impression as to mark him
out for the future leader of the whigs, if that station had been
consistent with his professional pursuits. Probably this speech
did not influence a single vote ; but it lowered the tone of the
treasury bench, and took away all the triumph of the reply.
It was the universal topic of conversation for two or three
davs."

ALIEN BILL. 555

VIII. ALIEN BILL.

25th and 29th April, lOtli and 31st May, 181G.
(Vol. II. p. 3,')4.)

Lord Castlereagh, on the 25th of April, having moved
for leave to bring in this bill,

Mr. Horner rose, and said: — He was not aware that any
such motion had been fixed for this night; but he was
anxious, in the very first instance, to give it his decided
negative. He had opposed the Alien Bill of 1814, because he
thought it not only uncalled for, but unconstitutional; and
if at that time it was not required, there was now even still
less excuse for such a measure. The noble lord had talked
in his usual style — a style that had now become fashionable
— of a peace alien bill, and a war alien bill. The House had
heard lately of peace regulation bills, and war regulation
bills ; of peace bank restriction bills, and war bank restriction
bills ; and now it was once more to be told, that extraordinary
powers were required to enable ministers to send foreigners
out of the country. To the constitution such a measure was
unknown, for it allowed ingress and egress of foreigners
without restriction ; and the reason stated by Mr. Pitt for
the Alien Act of 1792 was, that it was merely to secure inter-
nal tranquillity, and not to be applied to such purposes as
those to which it had of late years been perverted — the con-
finement and transportation of individuals who had, for some
cause or other not assigned, become obnoxious to ministers.
In 1793 certain principles were afloat which might be sup-
posed dangerous to the repose of the nation ; but where would
the noble lord now discover any such peril ? If the noble
lord could furnish any from his fertile imagination, he would
not find a man in the country to agree with him. Pie trusted,
now the possibility of injury from the interference of the
inhabitants of other states was removed, that the ancient and
wholesome system of policy would be pursued, and that Great
Britain would treat strangers with her wonted liberality and

556 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

confidence, without dreading that a few foreigners, even if
they were ill-disposed, would be able to disturb her tran-
quillity and happiness. He must therefore solemnly protest
against the introduction of this peace alien bill.

[On the 29th of April Sir Samuel Romilly said, that,
understanding that the second reading of the Alien Bill
was fixed for this day, he begged to state that there were
some accounts for which he was desirous of moving, and the
production of which he thought indispensable to the House,
before this Bill proceeded through any further stage. He
alluded to an account of the number of aliens sent out of
this country at the instance of the minister of any other
country.]

Mr. Horxer said, he thought it important that some day
should be fixed for the second reading of this Bill, when
gentlemen might come down with a certainty of entering upon
the discussion. This was impossible, he thought, to-morrow,
and therefore some more distant day ought to be appointed.
He could not here help alluding to the manner in which this
Bill had been introduced to the House. Leave was moved
for, on one night, after a long discussion, and when very few
members were in the House. It was subsequently brought
in, and read a first time, under similar circumstances, and at
two o'clock in the morning the second reading was fixed for
this day. This was a sort of precipitation which he could
not help thinking savoured of a disposition to steal a march,
which, with a bill of so much importance, he considered
extremely reprehensible. This was a Bill which should be
discussed in all its stages ; he therefore hoped some distant
day would be named, on which they might all come prepared
to meet the question fairly.

[On the 10th of May Lord Castlereagh moved the order of
the day for the second reading of this Bill.

Lord Archibald Hamilton moved that it be read a second
time that day three months, and the amendment was sup-
ported by jNIr. Brougham and Sir Samuel Romilly, who were
answered by Lord Castlereagh.]

Mr. Horner then rose, and said, — The noble lord had set

ALIEN BILL. 557

out with dwelling emphatically on the circumstances in which
the measure of 1793 had originated — diflcring altogether as
those circumstances did from the circumstances of the pre-
sent time. But the noble lord had erroneously stated the argu-
ments of those who, in 1793, opposed the measure. No man
had ever denied that an actual case of danger to the internal
tranquillity of the realm would be a sufficient warranty for
the enactment of such a measure. Mr. Fox had made this
statement most distinctly, and iiad founded his opposition to
the Bill on the ground that no danger existed. But he would
pass this by, and ask the noble lord if there was, at the present
moment, such danger as that which was assumed to exist in
1793 by the friends of the Bill of that day? Would the noble
lord say that the same danger now existed which was assumed
in 1793 by the friends of the Bill? The noble lord said no
such thing. He could not say so, and it would be for the
House to judge how far the existence of any danger was made
out on which the present bill should rest. The noble lord
had said, that gentlemen on his (Mr. Horner's) side of the
House were insensible to the dangers of the country in their
opposition to this Bill. This he denied. They considered
that for any misconduct of aliens in this country the operation
of the common law would be a sufficient remedy. It was so
considered by our ancestors, who, until 1793, never sought
any other protection against the conduct of aliens but the
common law. But would it be argued that before that period
the country was in no danger from the practices of aliens ?
He could state several periods of our history when real danger
existed from aliens, and yet no such power as that conferred
by an alien act was thought necessary against it. In remote
periods, when this country was disturbed by contests for the
crown, and when the influence of aliens was known to be ex-
erted against the government, this extraordinary power was
not resorted to. The common law was then thought sufficient.
In times when religious differences excited disturbances, and
when foreigners were known to be hostile to the views of
government, when so many alarms of danger were spread from
the interference of the pope and the Jesuits, it was not thought

47*

558 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

necessary to vest such a power in the crown. The common
law was then deemed sufficient. But to come to more modern
times, during the whole period from the Revolution down to
the reign of his present Majesty, would it be said that this
country was in no danger from aliens? There was, during
the whole of that time, a pretender to the throne, and one in
whose favour it was known some foreign nations were pre-
judiced, and to support whom foreign factions were formed in
this country ; yet during all that time, and amidst all those
dangers, an alien act was not thought necessary. No, the
common law was resorted to, as a sufficient remedy against
the effijrts of aliens in those times to disturb the public tran-
quillity. This then, he conceived, was an answer to the noble
lord's charge of insensibility to the danger of the country.
The opposition of gentlemen on his (Mr. Horner's) side did
not proceed from insensibility, but from a wise sensibility of
the danger to be dreaded from aliens on the one hand, and
from the extraordinary and arbitrary power of the crown on
the other. But the noble lord had taken an extended view
of the subject, and in his mind the arguments which the noble
lord had used were more against than in favour of the Bill.
The noble lord had taken a very extended, and indeed a very
surprising view of the necessity of the measure; one different
altogether from that which had been taken by Mr. Pitt. Mr.
Pitt's grounds were narrow, but they were defined and intelli-
gible. He had introduced the Bill as a war measure, but the
noble lord had made his a peace alien bill ; and for what ? To
protect the essential interests of British policy against the
machinations of foreigners. But what were those essential
objects of British policy ? Did they consist in supporting the
policy of the assembled monarchs at Vienna, or in affording
secure and uncontrolled sway to legitimate sovereigns, or
rather to sovereigns newly created? Was it one essential ob-
ject of British policy, that a certain number of persons who
had composed the constituent assembly, who had so much
enthusiasm as to think they could reform the constitution of
their country, should not have power to reside in any other
kingdom than Russia, Prussia, or Austria ? These might be

ALIEN BILL. 559

considered essential objects of British policy by tlic noble
lord ; but would the House sanction or approve them ? Would
they, by passing this Bill, give to the crown the power of ban-
ishing from our shores the foreign merchant, mechanic, or
artist, whose exertions and industry contribute so much to our
commercial wealth and national splendour? Would it invest
the noble lord with a power, which he might, in order to pro-
tect the policy of Russia, Austria, France, or Spain, exert in
sending such persons to the wilds of Siberia, or the dungeons
of Ccnta ? He trusted, that before they gave such a power,
they would seriously consider the grounds on which it had
been conferred in 1793. In the act which was then passed,
what was the cause stated? Was it the undefined term "to
protect the essential objects of British policy?" No, but to
guard against internal danger, not from some supposed extreme
cause, but from danger, — actually existing danger. [Here
Mr. Horner read the preamble to the Alien Bill of 1793, which
stated, that " whereas an unusual number of persons, not
natural-born subjects of^his Majesty, resided in the kingdom;
and whereas danger may arise," Sec. &c.] (Hear, hear, from
Lord Castlereagh.) The noble lord may cheer (continued Mr.
Horner.) but would he contend that any danger to this country
was to be dreaded from the foreigners who were now in it?
He (Mr. H.) did not call on the noble lord to show that dan-
ger might not exist ; but if it did, it might be to the Bourbons,
not to this country. Then as to the statement of the solicitor-
general, that the crown possessed the power of sending aliens
out of the country, he contended that such an opinion was
erroneous, and that the loose opinion of Blackstone on the
subject was no authority, unsupported as it was by an express
act or by precedent. If such a prerogative of the crown was
to be proved, it should be proved positively and not negatively.
In 1794, when such great research was used in order to prove
that this prerogative was vested in the crown, the only instance
of its ever having been exercised was found to have occurred
in the reign of Henry the Fourth. It had been said that though
the king had not the power to deport an alien, he had a right to
order him out of the country by proclamation, and the person

560 SPEECHES IN PAKLIAMENT.

refusing to obey such proclamation was liable to punishment.
But what was the punishment prescribed in this case ? a
month's imprisonment, and to be sent out of the country.
Undoubtedly obedience should be paid to the lawful procla-
mation of the king, but in this case the legality of such procla-
mation might be objected to, and it would not be proved by
the punishment of the offender against the proclamation itself.
The opinion of Sir Edward Northey in support of this right,
he considered in the same light as that of judge Blackstone ;
it was not supported by authority. [Mr. Horner then contrasted
the object of the war alien bill with that of the one now pro-
posed.] The former, he observed, was to preserve the external
tranquillity of the country, but the latter was intended to sup-
port foreign tyranny. It was in this view the noble lord
viewed it, and it was for this purpose he wished the House to
sanction it. It was an absurd argument in its favour, to say
that it was not likely to be abused, because, unless a strong
case of its necessity were made, such argument would go for
nothing. But he contended it might be abused, and he would
suppose three cases where such abuse might happen. Suppose,
in the first place, envoys were to arrive from Holland to sue
the Russian ambassador for the debt due from his government ;
that ambassador might find it convenient to apply to the noble
lord to prevent this demand, and the noble lord might discover
that it was an essential principle of British policy, to send the
unlucky Dutchmen out of the country by means of this Alien
Bill. Suppose, in the second place, a body of merchants, the
subjects of Ferdinand the Beloved, resident in England, should
be desirous of proceeding upon business to South America;
the Spanish ambassador might give a hint that they were
friendly to the revolutionary party in New Spain, and the
noble lord might politely take the hint, and send these unof-
fending traders to Spain, to be dealt with according to the
tender mercy of the monarch of that country. Such an occur-
rence was not impossible, though he did not mean to assert
that it would occur, or that there would be any foundation
for his third case ; whicli supposed that some of the persecuted
Protestants of Nismes should seek refuge in Great Britain,

ALIEN IJILL. .J 01

with a clergyman, who had formerly belonged to the consti-
tuent body at their head : the Catholic French ambassador,
perhaps of the Angoulcnie party, might ap[)ly to have them
instantly sent abroad again, and the noble lord would have no
power of refusal, since, by the passing of this Bill, he would
deprive himself of the answer, that the laws of the country
gave him no such authority ; in such a case, even the noble
lord must lament that he had been armed with a measure
which precluded him from giving protection, which his own
heart would yearn to afford. He (Mr. Horner) said, he would
not enter into the question, either economically or commer-
cially, but he protested in the strongest terms against inflicting
upon the national character of the empire a lasting reproach
by the passing of this peace alien bill. He cared not for the
opinions of foreign courts, who might with reason rejoice at
the measure, since it was for their benefit it was passed : in
truth, the noble lord was lending himself as an instrument to
foreign powers in the persecution of their subjects, and in
hunting them from one end of Europe to the other. It was
not difficult to understand why ministers of a certain charac-
ter could not vary their measures with the varying circum-
stances of the times. In 1793, the House gave extraordinary
powers to an extraordinary man ; and because the present
govermnent found the Alien Bill upon the statute book, and
learnt that it was about to expire, its revival was immediately
determined upon ; ministers were determined to follow the
steps of Mr. Pitt, and the discontinuance of the act would be
an innovation upon their system. What he required was,
that the House should no longer allow this innovation upon
the constitution ; for until the French Revolution no such law
was ever passed : he trusted that the good sense of parliament
would prevail over this attempt to substitute an arbitrary
statute for the common law of the land.

[The Bill was read a third time and passed on the 31st of
May. On that occasion Sir Samuel Romilly moved that the
continuance of the Act be limited to one year instead of two,
and after he had spoken,]

562 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

Mr. HoRXER said, — he trusted that the supporters of the
measure would see the propriety of acquiescing in this amend-
ment ; as he could not suppose they acted from a blind confi-
dence in the ministers of the crown. He had patiently waited,
but in vain, for some explanation from the noble lord, of a
law which was a reproach and a stain on the character of the
country. Nothing, however, was advanced beyond this, —
that from mere confidence in the noble lord, such as they knew
him to be, they were to depart from the ancient law and policy
of the country, and withdraw from strangers that hospitable
and generous reception which it had been the pride of our
ancestors to afford them. The Bill was a disgrace to the
character of the country, and the manner of passing it a dis-
grace to the character of that House.

The House divided on this amendment, when 29 voted in
favour of it, and 79 against it.

BANK OF ENGLAND. 563

IX. BANK OF ENGLAND.

24th of April, and 1st of Ma v.
(Vol. II. p. 354.)

Mr. Horner gave notice that, on the 1st of May he should
move for the appointment of a committee to inquire into the
expediency, on the part of the Bank of England, of renewing
their Cash payments, and into the means best calculated for
effecting that object. He then moved, " that there be laid
before the House an account of the nett weekly amount of
the Bank of England notes in circulation, from the 9th of
February, 1815, to the latest period to which the same could
be made out, distinguishing post bills from notes, and dis-
tinguishing those under the value of 5/."

On the 1st of May he brought forward his promised motion,
and said, —

It was a matter of great convenience that he had been
enabled to bring forward the proposition which he had then to
submit to the House before the bill for continuing the restric-
tion act came under discussion, because it was his opinion, as
it had been that of many gentlemen in the House, that when
it was proposed to renew the restriction on the bank pay-
ments for two years, their attention should be called in detail,
and on a specific motion, to the reasons why this restriction
should be continued under the present circumstances ; and on
what principles, or under what motives, it was adopted as a
permanent part of our peace system of finance. The surprise
which he had felt when he heard of the proposition to renew
the restriction on cash payments in time of peace, had been
generally felt throughout the House and the country ; because
if any thing could bo collected from the former declarations
of ministers, and from the enactments themselves, it was this
— that at the end of the war the system adopted in time of
war should be abandoned, and that we should revert to that

564 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

state of law and practice, on which alone any secure system
of finance could be founded. The proposal to renew the Bank
restriction, for so long a period as two years, had had this
effect — that he doubted the sincerity of the professions which
had been all along made by ministers, of their desire to effect
the renewal of the cash payments. The professions of the
ministers had always been, that at the termination of the war
the restriction should cease. Yet now, after the enjoyment of
peace in reality, for nearly twelve months, and six months
after the ratification of the definitive treaty, the House was
called on, as a matter of course, to continue the restriction,
not for such a short period as would enable the Bank to make
arrangements for the renewal of their payments, but for a
period of two years. This they were requested to do, without
any one step being taken to facilitate the resumption of cash
payments. Looking, therefore, to the manner in which his
right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had pro-
posed the measure, he entertained very great doubts of the
professions of ministers. But, if he felt a doubt with respect
to ministers, no doubt whatever existed in his mind with re-
spect to the Bank of England. Were they not told, year after
year, until they scarcely could hear the declaration with gra-
vity, by gentlemen connected with the Bank, that their not
resuming their cash payments was all a matter of compulsion
— that it was against their system — that nothing was so
painful to their feelings, as their being prevented from paying
their notes, of every denomination, in gold and silver? He
always thought, if it were a measure of compulsion, that
never was resistance so weak as that which was opposed to it
by the Bank. And he was of opinion, that if they were
really desirous to renew, as soon as government would permit
them, their payments in silver and gold, they had given, under
the resistance which ministers opposed to their wishes, an
example of the passive grace of fortitude which never had
been exceeded. Therefore, from this day forth he should
think, whatever professions that body might please to make,
that they would be very well contented to enjoy all those vast
and almost incalculable profits which grew out of the adoption

BANK OF ENGLAND. 5G5

of this measure. P'or, from the trammels created by it, arose
a subserviency in the government to the Bank, which rendered
ministers incapable of fairly going into the money market.
He would not go farther into this subject, because it had
already been ably discussed by an hon. member (Mr. Grenfell,)
whose luminous statement, founded on the most authentic
documents, was on record upon their journals, and showed
such an example of rapacity on the part of a corporate body,
and of acquiescence on the part of a government, as stood un-
rivalled in the financial history of any country in Europe.

He believed, that his right hon. friend, the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, had no settled system of opinions at all on this
subject. He had a sort of notion, that if cash payments
could be resumed, without altering his plan of finance, it
would be as well if things were restored to their old order.
But sooner than attempt this reform, he thought it was better
to rub over this year and the next year, and to make up, by
the assistance of the Bank, any defalcations that might arise
in the finances of the country, however exorbitantly he was to
pay for the accommodation. He had no doubt, from the re-
newal of this measure, being for two years, that it was inti-
mately connected with the financial arrangements of his right
hon. friend. His right hon. friend said, that his plans and the
renewal of the restriction were coincident in point of time,
and had no other connexion. But any man who recollected
what took place at the meeting of the Bank proprietors, would
form a different opinion. Early in the year, when the first
bargain was about to be entered into, the proprietors were
told that ministers meant to renew the Bank Restriction Act.
Why was this statement made, unless to induce the proprie-
tors to agree, with a better grace, to the loan which was
demanded of them ? But what other effect had the informa-
tion which was given on this subject? When it was after-
wards stated that the bill was introduced, there was an
immense and an immediate rise in the price of Bank slock.
It was said, that the Bank had no interest in the renewal of
the restrictions. If that were so, it was strange that the
most ignorant person in the market should at once perceive

VOL. II. 48

566 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

that his property would bo benefited by it, and that, there-
fore, it was advisable for him to speculate. He believed on
the occasion to which he alluded, that Bank stock rose about
18 per cent. The proposal to renew the Bank Restriction
Act for two years was a most extraordinary measure, when
compared with the extension of it at a former period. It was
known with what trembling anxiety, in 1797, six weeks and
six weeks had been added to the term of the act; and with
what caution in 1802, the government, suspecting the peace
of that year to be precarious, had proposed short extensions of
the restriction. Even after the principle (a mischievous and
fatal principle he conceived it to be) of making the restriction
a war measure had been adopted, it had always been deter-
mined that it should cease six months after the conclusion of
a general peace. And last year, when surely the peace did
not present such a prospect of duration as at present, it was
only extended to a fixed day — the 5th of July — in the fol-
lowing session. But now it was to be extended two years,
without any reason, unless it was to be understood as the
price of the loan which the Bank was to advance.

The question of the restriction had of late been put on a
new ground, by connecting it with the agricultural distresses.
But if the Bank restriction was to be grounded on the agri-
cultural distresses, why was it to be continued for two years ?
Was not every one more and more convinced every day, that
the distress would be a temporary evil ? Why, then, was not
the restriction of a short duration ? — Only with a view to the
bargain between the Bank and the treasury. He knew this
would not be avowed ; but he would put it to all who were
anxious for the security of the country, or desirous of preserv-
ing their own property, whether, after they had considered the
circumstances he had explained, they could imagine, that this
measure had nothing to do with the bargain entered into be-
tween government and the Bank? Would they vote for
inquiry this evening, or give their assistance to a measure, the
true object of which was not avowed, and the only reason for
proposing which he conceived he had stated ? On what
ground did his right hon. friend mean to call on them to accede

BANK OF ENGLAND. 567

to these restrictions? And how did he mean to defend
himself from the charge of not having taken any steps to
compel the resumption of cash payments ? These were
points on which the House was ignorant, but on which it
ought to be informed. And iiere he wished to correct an
error which had been unjustly imputed to him and to those
gentlemen who coincided with him in opinion. It was said,
that they wished the cash payments to be immediately re-
sumed. They never harboured such a sentiment. They
always stated that it could not be done, without precautionary
measures ; but they conceived that no time should be lost in
giving the country full assurance that payments would be
renewed, and in taking speedy measures that this might be
done with safety. The measures which had been successively
proposed to Parliament, were to put ofT, not only the cash
payments, but the consideration of the means of again bring-
ing them about.

He would ask the House, did they not feel some anxiety
on this head? Had they felt no evils from the long suspen-
sion of cash payments? Were they sensible of no evils after
all that had passed in the course of the discussions of the
agricultural distress, during which no one had been hardy
enough to deny that a great evil had arisen from the sudden
destruction of the artificial prices ? Would any man say that
there had not been a great change in the value of money ?
What this was owing to might be disputed ; but, for his own
part, he had not the least doubt. From inquiries which he
had made, and from the accounts on the table, he was con-
vinced that a greater and more sudden reduction of the circu-
lating medium had never taken place in any country than had
taken place since the peace in this country, with the excep-
tion of those reductions which had happened in France after
the Mississippi scheme, and after the destruction of the
assignats. He should not go into the question how this re-
duction had been effected, though it was a very curious one,
and abounded in illustrations of the principles which had been
so much disputed in that House. The reduction of the cur-
rency had originated in the previous fall of the prices of agri-

568 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

cultural produce. This fall had produced a destruction of
the country bank paper to an extent which would not have
been thought possible without more ruin than had ensued.
The Bank of England had also reduced its issues ; as ap-
peared by the accounts recently presented. The average
amount of their currency was not, during the last year, more
than between twenty-five and twenty-six millions ; while two
years ago it had been nearer twenty-nine millions, and at one
time even amounted to thirty-one millions. But without
looking to the diminution of the Bank of England paper, the
reduction of country paper was enough to account for the fall
which had taken place.

Another evil which had resulted from the state of the cur-
rency, which he had foreseen and predicted, but which had
been deemed visionary, was. that during the war we had bor-
rowed money, which was then of small value ; and we were
now obliged to pay it at a high value. This was the most
formidable evil which threatened our finances ; and, though
lie had too high an opinion of the resources of the country, and
of the wisdom of the government to despair, he was appalled
when he considered the immense amount of the interest of
the debt contracted in that artificial currency, compared with
the produce of the taxes. These were the two grand incon-
veniences which had resulted ; and it was to be remembered,
that the great difference during the former discussions on
these subjects, was not so much in the theoretical as in the
practical question. The late minister, Mr. Percival, who had
no general principle on the subject, thought, that to revert to
cash payments in time of war would be so difficult that it
was not worth the hazard. But he (Mr. Horner), though
he thought that the renewal of the cash payments was
a matter which required caution and preparation, thought
that the true policy was to meet the difficulty at once, and
that it was a fallacy pregnant with evil to suppose that any
lasting benefit could be derived from so factitious a state of
the currency. The event had decided the question. But,
turning from these results, and looking forward to the opera-
tion of this restriction in time of peace, it would be found to

BANK OF ENGLAND. Oby

leave us without any known or certain standard of money to
regulate the transactions, not only between the public and its
creditors, but between individuals. The currency which was
to prevail was not only uncertain, but cruel and unjust in its
operation — at one time, upon those whose income was fixed
in money, and to all creditors — at another time, when by
some accident it was diminished in amount, to all debtors.
"Was not this an evil sufficient to attract the attention of a
wise, a benevolent, and a prudent government? If they
looked at the agricultural interest, was not a fluctuation of
prices the greatest of evils to the farmer? For, supposing
prices were fixed and steady, it was indifferent to him what
was the standard. As long as wc had no standard — no fixed
value of money — but it was suffered to rise and fall like the
quicksilver in the barometer, no man could conduct his pro-
perty with any security, or depend upon any sure and certain
profit. Persons who were aware of the importance of this
subject must be surely anxious to know whether there were
any imperative reasons for continuing the present system, to
know whether it was intended to revert to the old system,
and if not now, when that system would be reverted to, and
what would be the best means for bringing about that mea-
sure. This was the object for which he proposed to appoint
the committee, that the House might know something of the
true state of the case before they plunged headlong into the
system of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

He hoped they should hear the opinion of his right hon-
ourable friend, and learn from him on what grounds the
bill was now proposed, and what were the circumstances
under which they might revert to cash payments. If he
looked at the professions of former times, he was at a loss
to know how to apply them. The reasons for continuing
the restriction had been said to be our great foreign ex-
penditure, the necessity of importing corn, the high price
of the precious metals, and the unfavourable state of the
exchange. These subjects had created much controversy,
which he should not now renew, but which he did not shrink
from, and which he thought it probable he might have an

48*

570 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

opportunity again to discuss ; for, if the present system were
persisted in, the exchange and the price of gold would be very
unsatisfactory to the Bank and the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer. The opinions which he had formerly given had re-
ceived a strong and unexpected confirmation by late events ;
but he had already modified the opinion which he had formerly
given as to the price of gold. When, by the depreciation of
the currency, gold was permanently separated from paper, it
was subject to all the variations in price of any other article
of merchandise. On this subject it was to be remarked, that
in the last year, a year of peace, gold, though lower than it
had previously been, was never below 4/. 85., which was equal
to the whole of the alleged depreciation ; but now that the
country banks had called in their paper, it had fallen nearly to,
and would soon be quite as low as, the Mint price. Let not the
right hon. gentleman flatter himself that if the Bank of Eng-
land were to issue their notes to that extent,_ which they were
likely to do upon the enactment of his bill, the country banks
would not return to their former practice, and the rate of
prices be affected by that practice. The House should there-
fore be prepared for such consequences, and in due time con-
sider how to provide against them. To afford an opportunity
for that consideration was the object of his motion, and he
hoped the House would see the propriety of acceding to it.
The high price of bullion, the rate of exchange, the importa-
tion of foreign grain, and the amount of our foreign pay-
ments, which were on a former occasion pleaded as reasons
for the restrictions of cash payments by the Bank, could not
now be urged, because those reasons no longer existed.
Therefore his right hon. friend, who urged those reasons on
the occasion alluded to, was called upon in consistency to sup-
port the present motion, in order to ascertain how it became
necessary, after the cessation of those reasons, to continue the
restriction. For himself, he could not conceive, after those
reasons had ceased to exist, the measure could be justified.
He had heard of publications, copies of which were pretty
widely circulated, and the object of which was to show, that
if bank notes were issued in the same abundance as they for-

BANK OF ENGLAND. 571

merly were, prices would again rise, and the farmers be con-
sequently benefited; that this therefore would be a good
thing for the country, and that grain might probably again
rise to lOO^-. a quarter. But he (Mr. Horner) could not sup-
pose the right lion, gentleman prepared to support his mea-
sure upon such grounds ; or that he would be an advocate for
the issue of bank notes, with a view to raise the price of
grain. For if the right hoti. gentleman would do so, he must
become the advocate of one of the most monstrous projects
that had ever been imagined. Projects somewhat similar had
no doubt been brought forward and tried during the Regency
in France, and about the same time in this country, but the re-
sult proved their fallacy. Both governments were, however,
in these cases, the dupes and projectors. But if his right hon.
friend should press such a project as that to which he alluded,
he would not be the dupe — but the fallacious projector him-
self. This course, however, he could not suppose the right
hon. gentleman prepared to pursue.

In what he had said, he did not wish it to be understood
that his object was to have cash payments resumed imme-
diately, but that steps should be immediately taken with a
view to that resumption — that the Bank should set about it
— that the directors should prepare for the resumption —
that indeed both Government and the Bank should set about
measures to relieve the right hon. gentleman from the
dilemma in which he was placed by the removal of those
causes which he had formerly assigned to justify this restric-
tion, lie would not specify any time within which this re-
striction should be removed — he would not even mention two
years — but he could not help thinking that it was the duty
of Government and the Bank at once to set about the means
of accomplishing that object which the public had a right
to expect. Necessity was the only reason ever urged in
justification of this restriction ; and when the necessity ceased,
the country naturally expected that the restriction should
cease also.

He should now proceed to discuss the second branch of
his motion ; namely, the best means by which the Bank

572 SPEECHES IN TARLIAMENT.

might be enabled to resume its payments in cash. He had
ah-eady observed, that he would not specify any time
at which that resumption should take place, but he felt it
highly desirable that measures should be taken with a view
to that resumption. For instance, he thought it should be
enacted, that the Bank should gradually pay its several notes
according to their value. Thus, as the Restriction Act was
to expire in July, it might be provided tliat the Bank should
pay all notes of 11. within six months; afterwards, its 21.
notes within the next six months ; its 51. notes within the
succeeding six months ; and all its notes above 51. after that
period. By such an arrangement, the Bank would be
guarded against the consequences of any sudden change, while
the just claims and expectations of the public would be grati-
fied. But before the committee which he proposed, this sub-
ject might be fully considered, after an examination of wit-
nesses, including the directors of the Bank and others, com-
petent to afford every necessary information.

Another subject, which would properly come under the
consideration of such a committee, would be the state of our
metallic currency. He had heard that it was in the contem-
plation of government to have a new silver coinage, with a
view to relieve the country from that sort of bad English, and
still worse French silver, with which it was at present inun-
dated. This silver was indeed so very base, that it would
probably be better for the country to have no currency at all,
than be subject to suffer by such a circulating medium. But,
in considering this subject, it would be very material to
ascertain whether the new silver coinage should be according
to the old standard, or whether any new standard should be
established. For if the system of paper currency were to be
restored to the rate at which it sometime since prevailed, it
might be inconvenient and unjust to re-establish the old Mint
standard of silver ; for by such re-establishment, government,
as well as individuals who sent silver to the Mint for coinage,
would be very likely to suffer a considerable loss. It was idle
to expect that good money and bad would circulate together.
The Mint might be constantly at work, but not for the benefit

BANK OF ENGLAND. 573

of the public ; its new coinage might be poured into circula-
tion, but it would not continue in circulation. It would, if
some regulation with respect to our standard did not take
place, immediately vanish, and the expense would be in-
curred in vain.

He had now come to an end of the two objects of his mo-
tion — the expediency of resuming cash payments, and the
most proper method of doing this. He hoped that the House
would make some inquiry on the subject : he did not ask
them to adopt his opinions, but at least to make some in-
quiry, and not to pass on as a matter of course. If the House
did grant what the Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed,
they would in fact pass a bill to continue the restriction for
ever. He must be an idle dreamer who could suppose, after
what had passed, that the Chancellor of the Exchequer or the
Bank directors ever meant to resume cash payments at all.
If, then, this bill were sanctioned, as a matter of course, they
made the system permanent. They set their seal to it, and
must answer to the country for the consequences. He should
now move, " That a Select Committee be appointed to in-
quire into the expediency of restoring the Cash Payments of
the Bank of England, and the safest and most advantageous
means of effecting it."

The Chancellor of the Exchequer opposed the motion, and,
after a long discussion, in which Mr. Frankland Lewis, Lord
Castlereagh, Sir John Newport, Mr. Manning, the Bank
director, Mr. Ponsonby, Mr. Alexander Baring, and Mr. Hus-
kisson spoke, Mr. Horner made, it is said, " a luminous reply."

He said, — that in any thing which he had advanced on
this question, he had meant no personal disrespect to the di-
rectors of the Bank, or to their organs in that House. He
had spoken of them merely collectively as a corporation, and,
considering them in that capacity, he had no hesitation in
repeating, that he put no confidence in their declarations,
when they expressed an anxiety for the resumption of cash
payments. He would not take up much of the time of the
House at that late hour, and therefore would forego the tempt-
ing opportunity of exposing the inconsistency of the argu-

574 SPEECHES IN PARLIAMENT.

mcnts which had been urged in support of restriction by the
right hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Huskisson), who, though
he admitted the sound poHcy of a speedy resumption of cash
payments, seemed by his speech to leave that question in the
same state which it had been for some years past. As to
what had been said on the subject by the noble lord (Castle-
reagh), he was unable to comprehend its precise tendency.
He would therefore, from inability, abstain from following
him. The noble lord had thrown out such a mass of lan-
guage and ideas, and had made such a novel combination of
twisted expressions, that it was difficult in the many theories
he had urged, to understand that one which applied to the
resumption of cash payments, or to the manner in which they
might be most speedily effected. It was possible that the
noble lord held the thread which would guide him through the
labyrinth of theory and phraseology into which he had gone ;
but, as that thread was not visible to him, he would not ven-
ture to plunge into the inextricable abyss.

Mr. Horner then took a view of the arguments which had
been urged on the other side of the House in favour of re-
striction, and observed, — that if the expediency of the resump-
tion of cash payments at the end of two years, which had
been admitted, was put into the bill, if it was made part of
the bill that the Bank should resume its payments in that
time, and that the intermediate period should be spent in
making preparatory arrangements for that purpose, he would
withdraw his motion, and lend his aid to the forwarding of
such arrangements. But this was not the intention of minis-
ters, and by the present bill they left the time of resuming
cash payments as undefined as it was in 1797. The Bank
directors had once expressed themselves anxious to attend to
the directions of the House ; it therefore now became the
House, if they sincerely wished for the resumption of cash
payments, to give such directions as would most speedily con-
duce to that object. He had asked of the gentlemen ojipo-
site, what were those fortunate circumstances under which
cash payments would be more easy than at present ? To this
question no answer had been given. No one efficient reason

BANK OF ENGLAND. 575

had been given why those payments should not now be
resumed. Under these circumstances, then, he put it to those
members who were present, whether, after all they had heard,
they did not conscientiously believe that an inquiry was neces-
sary. If after what had passed they did not vote for inquiry,
they must stand to the consequences. The noble lord had
talked of the bill being formed on the permissive system. Did
he mean by this that the Bank would not be precluded from
resuming cash payments if they thought proper ? What he
objected to in the bill was, that, instead of intimating the wish
of the House that preparations for resuming cash payments
should be made in the interval of two years, during which it
was to last, it left these preparations to be made after the
expiration of the bill, and thus removed to an indefinite period
the resumption of money payments. The inevitable effect of
it would be, by prolonging the uncertainty and vacillation of
our circulating medium, to subvert all property, both public
and private. If the committee on the bill were pressed that
night, he should move some clauses, in consequence of what
had fallen from the noble lord.

The House divided : for Mr. Horner's motion 73 ; against
it 146.

THE END.

A SELECTED LIST

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Robert Burns' Poetical Works, edited by ^\^ Scott
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Nash's Mansions of England In the Olden Time, 104
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ancient Heraldic Manuscript emblazoned liy the celebrated Sir
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Several of the manuscripts from which these Arms are taken have hitherto been
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Strutfs Sylva Britannice et Scotia; ; or, Portraits of
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Walpole's {Horace) Anecdotes of Tainting in England,
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Scottish Literature— co/?///7wec^.—

Douglas' ( Gavin, Bis/iop of Dunkdd, 1475-1522) Poetical
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' In barbarous age,
Gave rude Scotland Virgil's page,' —
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