3|ffr-Vv.. UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT LOS ANGELES !!. ._A-^- ■-..^ INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE LONDON ; PEISTED BY .■3POTTI8WOODE AND CO., NSW-STBKF.T SQCARS AND PABI.IA3IKNT STnEEX INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE THE EEPOET OF THE PROCEEDINGS AND PAPERS HEAD IN PRINCE'S HALL, PICCADILLY CNDEH THE PEESIDENCY OF THE Right Hon. SIR CHARLES W. DILKE, Baet., M.P. On the 28th, 29th, and 30th January 1885 CASSELL & COMPANY, LIMITED LONDON, PARIS, NEW YORK, AND MELBOURNE 1885 *** Each AiitJior and Speaker has had the opportunity of correcting Jus rem-arhi before p^Mication, and is solely responsible for the state- ments of fact and expressions of opinion contained in his contributions to the volume CD 05 CO \ %,% S CO PEEPACB. > In the spring of 1884 a gentleman of Edinburgh determined to ^ devote a considerable sum of money to the purpose of ' keep- to ing before the public mind this vital question, viz. — What are CO 2 the best means, consistent with justice and equity, for bringing about a more equal division of the daily products of industry between Capital and Labour, so that it may become possible for all to enjoy a fair share of material comfort and intellectual culture, possible for all to lead a dignified life, and less difficult ^ for all to lead a good life ? ' *£ In response to his request. Sir Thomas Brassey, Mr. John J Burnett, Mr. Thomas Burt, the Earl of Dalhousie, Professor Foxwell, Mr. Eobert Giflfen, and Mr. Frederic Harrison con- u sented to act as the Trustees of a sum of 1,000^., which X should be devoted to prosecuting an inquiry into the question, 'y. Is the present system or manner ivhereby the products of industry are distributed betiveen the various persons and '5 classes of the community satisfactory ? Or, if not, are there t: any means by ivhich that system could be improved ? They ^ determined to invite the Statistical Society to assist in the undertaking, and a Joint Committee was formed, consisting of the Trustees and the following nominees of the Statistical Society : Sir Kawson W. Eawson, Professor Leone Levi, Mr. F. Gr. P. Neison, Major Kitchie,' Mr. Stephen Bourne, Mr. David ' Major Eitcbie, M.P., was, owing to other engagements, unable to serve on the committee. ^^OUU't,: VI PREFACE. Dale, and the Rev. W. Cunningham. The Joint Committee subsequently co-opted five additional members : Mr. A. H. D. Acland, Mr. W. Crawford, Mr. W. H. Hey, Mr. B, Jones, and Mr. E. D. Roberts. The Committee determined that they could best carry out the purpose of the trust by organising a Conference, at which the interests of Capital and Labour respectively should be adequately represented by practical men. They determined to invite papers bearing on the question, and to give opportunity for the thorough discussion of the statements made in those papers. They announced their willingness to receive offers of papers and information as to trade societies or other bodies that would wish to be represented by delegates at the Confer- ence, and suggested the following points as specially worthy of consideration : — 1. The existing system by which the products of industry are distributed. 2. Do any artificial and remediable causes influence pre- judicially (a) The stability of industrial employment ; (6) The steadiness of rates of wages ; (c) The well-being of the working classes ? 3. How far, in wliat manner, and by wliat means would the more general distribution of capital, or the State direction of capital, contribute, or not contribute, to (a) An increase in the products of industry ; (6) The well-being of the classes dependent upon the use of capital ? (Co-operative production, profit- sharing, &c.) 4. How far, in what manner, and by what means, would (1) a more general ownersliip of land (peasant proprietorship), of an interest in land (tenant right), or (2) the State ownership of land, conduce, or not conduce, to (a) The increased production of wealth ; (6) The welfare of the classes affected by the change ? PREFACE. Vii 5. Does existing legislation, or the incidence of existing legislation, affect prejudicially (a) The production of industrial wealth ; (b) The well-being of the classes engaged in the pro- duction ; (c) The natural or the most beneficial distribution of the accumulating products of national industry (in- cluding Succession Duties, Friendly Societies, Insur- ance, &c.) ? Can any of these be promoted by changes in existing legis- lation or taxation ? This announcement was made in the London and provincial papers on September 8, 1884. On the same day an article appeared in the Pall Mall Gazette from the pen of Mr. F. Harrison, which gives a clear statement of the purposes of the founder of the trust, and the hopes entertained by those engaged in carrying it out. A NEW INDUSTRIAL INQUIRY. By Mr. Frederic Harrison. As I have known something of the projected Conference on In- dustrial Questions from the first, I may be permitted to say a few words as to its scope and nature. A gentleman of Edinburgh, who prefers to remain anonymous, some time ago consul ted several persons knowai to take an interest in industrial problems, as to how he could best devote a certain portion of his fortune, so as * to make some pro- vision for keeping before the public mind this vital question, namely — Wliat are the best means, consistent with equity and justice, for bi'inging about a more equal division of the accumidated wealth of this country, atul a more eqtoal division of the daily products of indus- try bettoeen Capital and Labour, so that it may become possible for all to enjoy a fair share of material comfort and intellectual culture, possible for all to lead a dignified life, and less difficult for all to lead a, good life ? ' He received in reply various suggestions, and, after long delibei-ation, decided to name trustees to whom he should mal.e over an ample fund, authorising them to arrange, in any ways they Viii PREFACE. thought best, for the holding of a public Conference on some definite industrial question, limiting the discussion to a moderately small number of representative men, nominated by well-known bodies having an industrial interest from many different sides. The original Ti'ustees are Sir Thomas Brassey, Mr. J. Burnett (of the Engineers' Society), Mr. T. Burt, M.P., Lord Dalhousie, Mr. Robert Giffen (President of the Statistical Society), Professor H. S. Foxwell (of Cambridge), and Mr. Frederic Harrison. The seven Tru.stees held a series of meetings, wherein they considered the best means of giving effect with complete impartiality to the purposes of the trust. This was simply to keep before the public mind the enormous disparity of comfort resulting from our modern industrial life; which is, as the original letter puts it, at once a great e\dl in itself and a great danger to the commonwealth. There are never wanting, of course, inquiries and discussions as to alleged defects in our industrial system; but they are not always fruitful in result, and they usually start from preconceived doctrines and represent one side or one interest. The Trustees have sought to originate an inquiry which should not start from any doctrine, and which should be open to all interests. They have sought to reduce to a minimum that inevitable part of every inquiry into these Avide questions which is desultory, unscientific, anarchical, or doctrinaire. They would wish to have the debate limited to those who have some- thing to tell us that will stand sifting ; and at the same time they do not exclude from a fair hearing any serious opinion or school. It seemed to them that these conditions wovild be best attained if they proposed to one of the established associations to ixndertake the in- quiiy with a special Committee and fund. Ultimately the Statistical Society undertook the task, and named a Sub-Committee for the purpose. As the published list will show, the Committee now in- cludes the names of men known as trained officials and administrators, statisticians, and economists ; leaders of the workmen's movements and societies ; men representing gi'eat estates, and men rej)resenting popular constituencies ; as well as sevei-al of the economists of the younger school, both at Oxford and Cambridge, who have applied themselves ardently to the study of social problems. The idea in forming the Committee was to insure the presence of men trained to business and scientific statistics, who should be ready to look at those questions from the point of view of laliour as well as capital, and who would not come to the inquiry witli any hide-bound doctrines, whatever. PKEFACE. IX After much deliberation, the scheme of inquiry adopted by the Committee is this. They would begin by holding a Conference, consisting of 150 members, not casually selected from a body of sub- scribers, much less open indiscriminately to all comers, but consisting entirely of delegates selected by a great many public associations representing labour as well as capital, or occupied in the investiga- tion of industrial questions. Thus trades unions and chambers of commerce, co-operative and economic societies, together with all similar associations dealing with industry, either in the interests of the workmen or employer, or in the interests of society generally, would be invited to name representatives to the Conference. And,, alongside of this and the public discussion of such questions, the Committee would invite papers for publication, and endeavour to collect trustworthy returns on selected points. After the Conference is concluded, the scheme contemplates the publication of the discus- sions, together with such papers, returns, and other information as may appear worthy of a permanent form. In this way, it is hoped, something may be done to form materials for a practical hand-book on industrial problems, the result of the work of many minds, dealing with the subject under very different conditions. The type to which such a volume or volumes would Ijelong is the very remarkable and authoritative Report on Trade Societies, issued by thy Social Science Association in 1860, That volume was the real source of almost all the knowledge before the public down to the Keports of the Royal Commission, in 1867-8-9, which, indeed, in no way super- seded its usefulness. It is remarkable how many of the men who worked on that Committee of 1860, and prepared the volume that resulted from its discussions, have since been eminent in the service of the State, or in the cause of science. When men like the late Mr. Fawcett, Mr. Forster, Mr. Shaw Lefevre, and the late Charles Buxton, Frederick Maurice, and Professor Jevons combined their experience in one joint investigation, the result was at once impartial and trust- worthy. Whether the inquiry about to be undertaken will bear fruit in similar usefulness will depend on the answers given to the invitations by the public bodies and eminent authorities to whom they are ad- dressed. The subject is, of course, in one sense, a more difficult one to grasp, because it is not confined to the association of a particular class, but relates to the field of labour in general. For the details of the scheme now submitted to the public the original Trustees are not, as a body, responsible, and by devolving their trust for execution on X PEEFACE. the Statistical Society and its sub-committee, they have ceased directly to control the organisation. But it is their earnest hope that some little thing may be done to keep befoie the eyes of the public the need of unremitting efforts to mitigate the acknowledged dangei-s which beset our industrial life. Men like Mr. Burt and Sir Thomas Brassey, Mr. Burnett and Mr. Giffen, view that industrial life from very different points of view, and they often differ widely as to what the dangers ai-e, and how they could be lessened. But they have felt, like all their colleagues in the trust, and of the Special Committee of organisation, that they ought not to decline the task thrown on them by a man of generous pviblic spirit, who is as completely free from any personal object in founding this trust as they are them- selves in accepting it. A nd I believe they all agree with him when he says, ' Wealth, luxury, and extravagance among the few, accom- panied by poverty, misery, and want among the many, is at once a gi'eat evil in itself and a great danger to the commonwealth.' — Pall Mall Gazette, September 8, 1884. Wlien the Committee came to consider the practical arrange- ments of a three days' Conference in greater detail, it became obvious that the questions must be put somewhat differently if they were to evoke good discussion, and the business of each day was planned as follows : — First Day. Has the increase of the products of industry within the last hundred years tended most to the benefit of capitalists and employers, or to that of the working classes, whether artisans, labourers, or others ? and in what relative pro- portions in any given period ? Second Day. Do any remediable causes influence prejudicially (a) The continuity of industrial employment ; (b) The rates of wages ; (c) The well-being of the working-classes ? PEEFACE. xi Third Day. Would the more general distribution of capital or land, or the State management of capital or land, promote or impair the production of wealth and the welfare of the community ? In addition to the papers offered, some of which the Committee were unable to accept, papers were invited from representative men, who were known to be well qualified to put forward the views of some important classes of tlie community, or who were authoritatively recommended as competent to express the views of some association.^ The Committee then proceeded to invite additional dele gates to the Conference from bodies connected with different interests. They desired that the Conference should be composed so far as possible as follows : — Number of Delegates. 1. Delegates of Chambers of Commerce (10) and Associations of Caisitalists engaged in Industry (10) or Agriculture (10) 30 2. Delegates of Trades Unions 50 3. Delegates of Friendly Societies ...... 10 4. Delegates of Distributive (5) and Productive (10) Co-opera- tive Societies .15 5. Delegates of Economic, Literary, and Social Societies . . 20 125 The Conference met on the 28th, 29th, and 30th of January, 1885, in the Prince's Hall, Piccadilly, under the presidency of Sir Charles W. Dilke. There was a fair attendance of the general public, especially on the afternoon of the third day. The present volume contains the papers prepared for the Conference, along with a verbatim report of the discussions. ' This was the case with Mr. Hyndman and Mr. W. Moms, who were in- vited by the Committee, on the recommendation of the Social Democratic Federation, to write or furnish papers from the Socialist standpoint, but who did not do so and did not attend the Conference. Subsequently three delegates from the Federation were admitted and took part in the discussions. Xll PEEFACE. The papers and reports have been in all eases submitted to the authors and speakers for revision, but the Committee has determined that the volume should be a faithful report of the proceedings of the Conference, and have only provided for the omitting of one or two personal and political allusions which had no real connection with the purpose of the trust. Each reader or speaker is solely responsible for the accuracy of the statements made as to matters of fact. In some cases, the assertions made appeared to members of the Committee to be demonstrably wrong, but they have determined not to carry the argument on such matters farther than was done in the Conference itself. Mr. D. Cunningham, Mr. Hutchinson, and others of the authors have made brief additions to their papers, and the Committee have also inserted two contributions as appendices. One of these is a paper representing the views of the Shojp Hours League. Two members of this body attended the Conference at very great personal inconvenience, but owing to the fortune of the ballot they were unable to bring the views of the very large class they represent before the Conference. A short letter has also been reprinted which was addressed to the Times by Professor Nicholson, whose duties in Edinburgh rendered it impossible for him to be present and reply to the criicisms on his paper. LIST OF MEMBERS OF THE INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. President : The Right Hon. Sir^CHARLES W. DILKE, Bart., M.P. Vice-Presidents : The Right Hon. G. J. SHAW LEFEVRE, M.P. The Right Hon. A. J. MUKDELLA, M.P. Committee : *Mr. Thomas Burt, M.P., Reform Club, S.W. *Mr. J. Burnett, 90 Blackfriars Road, S.E. *Professor Foxwell, St. John's College, Cambridge, Ho7i. Sec. *Mr. F. Harrison, 38 Westbonrne Terrace, W. *The Earl of Dalhousie, K.T., 86 Brook Street, W. *Sir Thomas Brassey, K.C.B., M.P., 24 Park Lane, W. *Mr. R. GiFFEN, Board of Trade, WTiitehall Gardens, S.W. tSir Rawson W. Rawson, K.C.M.G., C.B., 68 Cornwall Gardens, S.W. tProfessor Leone Levi, 5 Crown Office Row, Temple, E.G. tMr. F. G. P. Neison, 30 Moorgate Street, E.C. tMr. Stephen Bourne, H.M. Custom House, E.C. tMr. David Dale, Darlington. tRev. W. Cunningham, Trinitj' College, Cambridge, Sec. %M.x. R. D. Roberts, Clare College, Cambridge. JMr. A. H. D. Acland, Fyfield Road, Oxford. JMr. B. Jones, Co-operative Wholesale Society, Hooper Square, E. 4:Mr. W. H. Hey, 3 William's Place, Victoria Road, Peckham, S.E. 4:Mr. W. Crawford, North Road, Durham. * Trustees. t Nominated by Statistical Society. % Co-opted by Committee. XIV LIST OF ME5IBERS. INVITED READERS. Sir T. Brassey, K.C.B., M.P., 24 Park Lane, W. Mr. R. Giffen, Board of Trade, Whitehall Gardens, S.W. Mr. Lloyd Jones, U S. Michael's Road, Stockwell, S.W. Mr. J. G. Hutchinson, 28 Edinburgh Road, Upper Arraley, Leeds. Miss Edith Simcox, 1 Douro Place, Victoria Road, Kensington, W. Mr. W. H. Houldsworth, M.P., Knutsford, Cheshire. Professor Marshall, Chesterton Road, Cambridge. Mr. W. Owen, Staffordshire Knot Office, New Hall Street, Hanlej', N, Mr. J. Mawdsley, 260 Ashton New Road, j\Iaucliestcr. Mrs. Patcrson, 36 Great Queen Street, Lincoln's Inn, W.C. Mr. W. J. Harris, M.P., Halwell Manor, Highampton. Mr. J. Jlorloy, M.V., West Hill, Putney, S.W. Mr. B. Jones, Co-operative Wholesale Society, Hooper Square, E. Mr. Scdley Taylor, Trinity College, Cambridge. Lord Bramwell. Four Elms, Edeubridge, Kent. Mr. A. J. Balfour, M.P., Whittinghame, Prestonkirk, N.B. Professor Nicholson, 15 Jordan Lane, Edinburgh. Mr. F. Harrison, 38 Westbourne Terrace, W. Dr. A. R. Wallace, Frith Hill, Godalming. Mr. D. Cunningham, M.Inst.C.E., Harbour Works Office, Dundee. DELEGATES. Aberdare, Merth3'r, and Dowlais Miners' Association : Mr. D. Morgan, 21 Dean Street, Ab rdare. Agricultural Labourers' Union : Mr. Ball, Chipping Hill, Witham, Essex. Alliance Cabinet Makers' Association : Mr. J. R. Smith, 64 Finsbury Pavement, E.G. Allotments Association (Maidstone): Mr. C. Beale, Holland Street Maidstone. Amalgamated Bootmakers : Mr. Donald ^IcGregor, 38 Charlotte Street, Fitzroy Square, W. Amalgamated Cabdrivers' Society : Mr. E. Dyke, 6 Camera Square, Chelsea, S.W. Mr. G. S. Ross, 112 Pitfield Street, Hoxton, N. iMr. H. W. Rowland, 26 Bouverie Street, E.G. Amalgamated Cotton Spinners : Mr. William Cape, 32 Albert Street, Ramsbottom. Mr. J. Mawdsley, 260 Ashton New Road, Manchester. Amalgamated Society of Carpenters and Joiners : Mr. J. S. Murchie, 95 Brunswick Street, Ardwick Green, Manchester. Artisans' Technical Association : Rev. Henry Solly, East Croydon. LIST OF MEMBERS. XV Assington Farming : Mr. E. Taylor, 4 Bramali Road, Mostyn Road, Brixton, S.E. Associated Society of ShipwTights : Mr. Alexander Wilkie, 23 Maxwell Street, Partick, Glasgow. Mr. D. M. Anderson, 106 Byker Street, Walker, Newcastle-on-Tyne. Association for the Defence of British Industry : Mr. C. A. Upton, Mount Pleasant, Merton Road, Wandsworth, S.W. Eedminster Union : Mr. Stephen Harding, Bower Ashton, near Bristol. Birmingham Philosophical Society : Mr. J. Middlemore. Boot and Shoe Riveters (Leicester) : Mr. George Sedgwick, 30 Gladstone Street, Leicester. Borough Hop Trade Mutual Friendly Society : Mr. C. Oscar Gridley, 9 Duke Street, London Bridge, S.E. British Iron Trade Association : Mr. I. Lowthian Bell, Rounton Grange, Northallerton. Mr. J. S. Jeans, Victoria Mansions, S.W. Central Co-operative Board, Midland Section : Mr. W. Hemm, 57 Healey Street, Nottingham. Central Co-operative Board, Northern Section : Mr. T. Rule, 20 Ravensworth Terrace, Gateshead-ou-Tyne. Central Co-operative Board, North- Western Section : Mr. D. Fennell, 37 Derby Street, Oldham. Mr. J. Johnston, S. George's Chambers, Albert Square, Manchester. Central Co-operative Board, Scottish Section : Mr. J. Deans, 28 Campbell Street, Riccarton, Kilmarnock. Central Co-operative Board, Southern Section : Mr. R. Newton, 2 Champion Ten-ace, Grove Lane, Camberwell, S.E. Central Co-operative Board, Western Section : Mr. R. Warne, 12 Vauxhall Road, Gloucester. Charity Organisation Society : Dr. G. B. Longstaff, Southfield Grange, West Hill Rd., Wandsworth, S.W. Cleckheaton Chamber of Commerce : Mr. S. Wadsworth, B.A., 63 Abingdon Villas, Kensington, W. Cleveland and District Blastfurnacemen's Association : Mr. William Snow, 14 Middlesborough Road, South Bank. Coal Co-operative Society : Rev. Isaac Doxsey, F.S.S., 186 The Grove, Camberwell, S.E. Co-operative Printing Society : Mr. H. R. Shatter, 74 Everton Road, Manchester. Decorative Co-operators' Association : Miss M. H. Hart, 405 Oxford Street, W. East Suffolk Chamber of Agriculture : Mr. B. B. Hunter Rodwell, Q.C., Holbrook, Ipswich. Eccles Manufacturing Societj' : Mr. Mort, Truell Grove, Eccles. Xvi LIST OF MEMBERS. Edinburgh Social Union : Mr. Patrick Gcddes, 81 Princes Street, Edinburgh. English Land Restoration League : Jlr. William Saunders, Mount View, Streatl.ara, S.W. English Wholesale Co-operative Society : Mr. T. E. Webb, 2 Plough Road, Battersea, S.W. Mr. G. Hines, Laurel Cottage, Croft Street, Ipswich. Exeter Chamber of Commerce : Capt. Halford Thompson, Claremont, Exeter. Fabian Society : Mr. J. G. Stapleton, -IT Lee Terrace, S.E. Mr. Hubert Bland, Bowater Crescent, Woolwich. Falmouth Chamber of Commerce : Mr. H. S. Mackenzie, Falmouth. Glasgow Chamber of Commerce : Sir James Bain, Junior Carlton Club, Pall Mall, S.W. Greenock Chamber of Commerce : Mr. James Aitkin, 78 Eldon Street, Greenock. Guild of Co-operators : Mr. C. Cooper, 31 Southampton Street, Strand, W.C. Guild of St. Matthew : Rev. S. D. Headlam, B.A., National Liberal Club, S.W. Hearts of Oak Benefit Society : Mr. W. G. Bunn, 27 Overstone Road, Hammersmith, W. Mr. W. Shaen, 8 Bedford Row, London, W.C. Hebden-Bridge Fustian : Mr. J. Greenwood, Nutclough, Hebden-Bridge. Heckmondwike jManufacturing Company : Mr. James Crabtree, Croft Mills, Heckmondwike. Highland Land Law Association, London : Dr. G. B. Clark, West Dulwich, S.E. Hollow Ware Pressors' Amalgamated Society : Mr. C. Bloor, 37 Derby Road, Burslem. Huddersfield and District Woollen Weavers : Mrs. Ann Ellis, Cross Bank, Batley. Irish Land Restoration Society : Rev. J. Bruce Wallace, M.A., 7 Clifton Park Avenue, Belfast. Ironfounders : Mr. James P)revitt, 318 Kennington Road, S.E. Mr. E. Woods, 200 New Kent Road, S.E. Labour Association : Mr. H. Rowley, 6 Adam Street, Adelphi, W.C. Labourers' Union (Kent and Sussex) : Mr. Alfred Simmon.s, High Street, Maidstone. Land Nationalisation Society : Rev. H. J. B. Heath, 67 Ludgate Hill, E.G. LIST OF MEMBERS. xvii Land Law Reform League : Mr. C. Bradlaugh, 3I.P., 20 Circus Road, St. John's Wood, N.W. Liberty and Property Defence League : tLord Bramwell, Four Elms, Edenbridge, Kent. tMr. Wordsworth Donisthorpe, 32 Pembridge Villas, Bayswater, W. Mr. M. J. Lyons, 12 Wilmington Square, Clerkenwell, W.C. Lithographic Printers : Mr. G. D. Kelley, 39 Sidney Street, Oxford Road, Manchester. Local Taxation Committee : Major P. G. Craigie, 7 Arundel Street, W.C. London Chamber of Commerce : Mr. K. B. Murray, 85 King William Street, E.C. London Timber Trades' Association : Mr. Ernest Foreman, 57 Gracechurch Street, E.C. jMalthusian League : Dr. C. R. Drysdale, National Liberal Club, S.W. Masons (United Operative) : Mr. William Hancock, i Stamford Street, Blackfriars, S.E. Miners' Association (Rhondda) Mr. William Abraham, Miners' Office, Pentre, Pontypridd. Miners' National Union : Mr. E. Co wey, Sharlston Colliery, Wakefield. Mr. J. Nixon, 34 Lovaine Crescent, Newcastle-on-Tyne. Mr. B. Pickard, 2 Huddersfield Road, Barnsley. Mr. D. Reid, 404 Tin Street, Leadgate, Co. Durham. Mr. J. Toyne, Ruby Street, Saltburn-by-the-Sea. Mr. W. Wright, Dinnington Colliery, Northumberland. Mr. J. Wilson, 14 North Road, Durham. National Association for the Promotion of Social Science : Mr. Westlake, Q.C., LL.D., The River House, Chelsea Embankment, S.W. North Yorkshire and Cleveland Miners' Association : Mr. Robert Rowland, 29 Ruby Street, Saltburn-by-the-Sea. Positivist Society : Prof. Beesly, Elm Lawn, Woodberry Down, Finsbury Park, N. Progressive Association : Mr. Rowland Estcourt, National Liberal Club, S.W. Railway Servants : Mr. E. Harford, 306 City Road, London, E.C. Railway Servants (Scotland) : Mr. Joseph Hope, 28 Dewar Place, Edinburgh. Scottish Chamber of Agriculture : Mr. James W. Guild, The Abbey, North Berwick. Scottish Land Restoration League : Mr. J. M. Cherrie, Clutha Cottage, ToUcross, Glasgow. Scottish Wholesale Co-operative Society : Mr. W. Maxwell, 92 Fountainbridge, Edinburgh. a xviii LIST OF MEMBERS. Shop Hours League : Mr. Malcolm Gnthrio, J.P., Basnett Street, liivcrpool. Mr. J. F. Millar, 4 Peet Street, Edge Hill, Liverpool. Skye Crofters : Mr. J. S. Stuart Glennie, M.A., AthenKum Club, S.W. Social Democratic Federatiou : Mr. J. E. Williams, 24 Brooks ]\Iews, Craven Road, W. Mr. J. Burns, 8 Holden Street, Shaftesbury Fark, Battersea, S.W. Mr. J. McDonald, 24 Edward Street, Hampstead Road, N.W. Society for Promoting the Employment of Women : Miss G. J. King, 22 Berners Street, W. Statistical Society : Mr. Rowland Hamilton, Oriental Club, Hanover Square, W. Statistical Society of Ireland : Prof. Barnstaple, 23 Trinity College, Dublin. Tailors (Amalgamated) : Mr. Davy, 22 Greenfield Terrace, Askew Road, Gatesliead-on-Tyne. Trades Council, Bolton : Mr. James Robinson, 68 Town Hall Square, Bolton. Trades Council, Edinburgh : ^ Mr. Neil McLean, 30 Dairy Road, Edinburgh. Trades Council, Hull : Mr. W. J. Strachan, 24 Pennington Street, Holderness Road, Hull. Trades Council, Hyde : Mr. George Wilde, 27 Jane Street, Haughton Denton, near Manchester. Trades Council, Leeds : Mr. John Judge, 26 Darley Street, Leeds : Trades Council, Liverpool : Mr. A. Clark, 47 Hart Street, Liverpool. Trades Council, London (Women) : fMiss Mears, 114 Albany Street, N.W. f Miss Rogers, 35 Ranelagh Road, Pimlico, S.W. tMiss Whyte, 5 Macclesfield Street, Soho, W. Trades Council, Manchester : Mr. George D. Kelley, 39 Sidney Street, Oxford Road, Manchester. Trades Council, Middlcsborough : Mr. William Snow, 14 Middlcsborough Road, South Bank. Trades Council, Sunderland : Mr. W. Foreman, 14 BramwcU Street, Sunderland. Trades Union Congress Parliamentary Committee : Mr. J. S. Murchie, 95 Brunswick Street, Ardwick Green, Manchester. Mr. Burnett, 90 Blackfriars Road, London, S.E. Mr. A. W. Bailey, 179 North Road, Preston. Typographical A.ssociation : Mr. H. Klatter, 74 Everton Road, Manchester. Weavers, Northern Counties : Mr. D. Holmes, 35 Whitton Street, Burnley. LIST OF MEMBERS. xix Weavers' Association (Power Loom) : Mr. John Marshall, Clark Yard, Church Street, Preston. West Suffolk Chamber of Agriculture : Mr. William Biddell, M.P. Window Glass Makers' Federation : Mr. Joseph French, Co-operative Glass Blowers' Association, Sunderland Woman's Protection and Provident League : tMrs. Cooper, 1 Silver Street, Holborn, W.C. tKev. Stewart D. Headlam, National Liberal Club, S.W, tM. Adolphe Smith, 13 Sutherland Place, Pimlico, S.W. Workman's Association for Defence of British Lidustrv : Mr. H. J. Pettifer, 171 Commercial Eoad, S.E. Delegates whose names were marked f attended alternately with other representatives of the same society. EULES. The followiiisj Rules were adopted for the discussions in the Conference : I. That the several subjects selected for discussion be introduced by two (or more) papers, each of which may occupy about twenty minutes, together with ten minutes for the reply, so that ample time may be reserved in each session for free and open debate. II. As it is not intended to pass any resolutions at the Conference, no question arising out of any paper read or subject treated shall be put to a vote. III. That all questions concerning the order of proceedings or the relevancy of any argument shall be in the discretion of the Chairman, whose decision shall be final. IV. That every member of the Congress desirous of speaking on the subject of discussion shall give his name in writing to the Secretary in attendance, and await the call of the Chairman. V. That every speaker shall address the Chair only, confine himself strictly to the subject under discussion, cease when time is called, and not be permitted to speak twice on the same subject. VI. That the time allowed to each speaker shall not exceed ten minutes, and that at the discretion of the Chairman the speeches during the last hour, or any part of the last hour, of each session may be still farther limited. VII. That the Chairman shall call on speakers in the order in which their names are sent in ; but if more than six names are sent in during the reading of the papers, he shall ballot for the order in which speakers shall be heard, and may in doing so exclude the names of those speakers who have already addressed the Conference on other topics, so that they shall only be called on after fresh speakers have been heard. CONTENTS. PAGE PREFACE V LIST OF MEMBERS xiii RULES XX REPORT. FIRST DAY: President's Addeess 1 Has the Increase of the Products of Industry within the last Hun- dred Years tended most to the Benefit of Ca^ntalists arid Em- 2)loi/ers or to that of the Working Classes, whether Artisans, Labourers, or others ? and in what Relative Proportions in any (jive7i Period? Morning Session. Has the Increase of the Products of Industry tended most to the Benefit of Capitalists or to that of the Working Classes ? By Sir Thomas Brassey, M.P 4 Profits of Industry and the Workers. By Mr. Lloyd Jones . . 23 Rates of Wages paid by Dundee Harbour Trustees during the last Twenty-five Years. By JMr. David Cunningham, M.Inst.C.E., F.S.S il Aj)j)endices on Wages, Hours, Population, and House-rents in Dundee 45, 515 Labour and its Reward. By Mr. J. G. Hutchinson .... 46 A2)2)endix on Average Earnings of Mill Hands 61 Discussion 62-83 Xxii CONTENTS. Afterkoon Session. PAGE Loss or Gain of the Working Classes during the Nineteenth Centuiy. By Miss Edith Simcox 84 Appendices. — Income and Expenditure of the Upper and Middle Classes since 1800— Age, Sex, and Employments of the Working Population — Comparative Mortality of Rural and Urban Districts — Mortality in Workhouses and Hospitals— Pauperism not re- stricted to any Class or Calling — The Rate of Wages— Compara- tive Rise of Rent and Wages — Hourly Hirings — State House- keeping — Employers' Liability 96-107 Loss or Gain of Labourers in Rural Districts. By Mr. W. Saunders 107 Skilled and Unskilled Labour in tlue Shipbuilding Trade. By Mr. J. Lynch . . . . . 114 Discussion . . ■ 119-130 SECOND DAY: Do any Reinediahle Causes injlucnce rrejiulicially (a) the Continuity of Industrial Employment, {b) the Rates of Wages, (c) the Well- being of the Working Classes ? Morning Session. On the Existing Modes of Distribution of the Products of Industry in the Chemical Works, Collieries, Ironstone Mines, and Blast Furnaces in the North-east of England. By Mr. I. Lowthian Bell 137 Appendix. — Agricultural Wages in Cleveland — Diagram showing Scotch and Westphalian Miners' Wages H8 The Unionist View of Possible Remedies for Prejudicial Influences on Rates of Wages and Continuity of Employment. By Mr. W. Owen 149 Rates of Wages and Combination. By JMr. J. Mawdsley . . .156 Discussion 164-172 How far do Remediable Causes Influence Prejudicially (a) the Con- tinuity of Employment, (h) the Rates of Wages ? By Professor A. Marshall 173 Appendices. — Overci-owding of Towns — The Interdependence of In- flustries — A Standard of Purchasing Power — Theories and Facts about Wages 183-199 Continuity of Employment and Rates of Wages. By Sirs. Emma A. Paterson 199 Appe7idices. — Numbers of Female Workers — Cheai) and Nasty Wares — Numbers of Unmarried Women — Male and Female Lives 206 Discussion 208-214 CONTENTS. xxiii Afternoon Session. PAGE The Education of Public Opinion. By Professor Beesly . . . 215 Do any Eemediable Causes Influence Prejudicially the Well-being of the Working Classes ? By Mr. W. J. Harris, M.P .... 221 The Conditions of Industrial Prosperity. By Mr, W. H. Houldsworth, M.P 231 Home and Foreign Policy, or Howto Eestore Prdsperityto a Distressed and Anxious People. By Mr. S. Harding 235 Discussion 240-250 How Far do Eemediable Causes Influence Prejudicially the Well- being of the Working Classes ? By Mr. Sedley Taylor . . . 251 AjJpendices. — Letter from M. Billon — Letter from Eighty-five Par- ticipating Workmen of the Maison BiUon et Isaac . . . 263-265 Do any Eemediable Causes Influence Prejudiciall}' the WeU-being of the Working filasses ? By Mr. Benjamin Jones .... 265 Appendices. — National Income — Cost of Maintenance of Paupers Families with Incomes Less than £10 per head — Larger Income Possible — Too Little and Too Much— Wages of Workers can be Increased — Eemuneration of Management can be Eeduced — In- terest on Capital can be Eeduced — Monopolies and the Govern- ment — Higher Cultivation of Land — Progress of Invention — Co- operative Stores — Imprudent Marriages — Improved Dwellings — Cost of Drinking — Higher Standard of Providence — Associated Houses — Museums on Sundays — Love of the Beautiful — Thrusting up the Eesiduum — Technical Schools — Culture — Practice of Equity Teaching the Power of Union — Working Class Education . 276-304 Profit Sharing and Co-operative Production. By Mr. E. W. Greening . 304 Appendix. — Oldham Joint-Stock Mills —Co-operative Stores— Co- operative Corn Mills — Co-operative Wholesale Societies' AVork- shops —Results of Work in Fifteen Co-operative AVorkshops . 309-311 Our Industrial System, its Effects upon the AVell-being of the Work- ing Classes. Mr. J. M. Cherrie 311 A])pendix. — Exports and Imports — Production of Coal and Iron — Shipbuilding — Glasgow Dwellings — Acreage under Crop — Land "Values 321, 323 Discussion 323-335 THIRD DAY: Would the more General Distribution of Capital or Zavd, or the State Management of Capital or Land, Promote or Impair the Production of Wealth and the Welfare of the Community ? Morning Session. Land, Land Eeformers, and the Nation. By Mr. A. J. Balfour, M.P. 336 Note on the ' Original Properties ' of the Soil 366 xxiv CONTENTS. PAGE How to Cause Wealth to be More Equally Distributed. By Dr. A. R. Wallace 368 Land Nationalisation. By Emeritus Professor F. W. Newman . 392 Discussion 397 Afternoon Session. The Question Discussed and Answered. By Lord Bramwell . . 419 Aj)])en(llx. — Communism 425-427 Remedies for Social Distress. By Mr. Frederic Harrison . . 428 State Management of Land. By Professor Nicholson . . . 462 Note on Dr. Wallace's Paper 472 The French Workman's Party on the State JIanagement of Capital and Land. By M. Adolphe Smith 473 Discussion 481-505 APPENDICES. I. Legislative Regulation of Shop Hours. By Messrs. M. Guthrie, J.P., and J. F. Millar 507 II. House Rent in Dundee. By ilr. D. Cunningham . . . 515 III. Letter to the Editor of the Times. By Professor Nicholson . 516 INDEX 517 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. WIJDNESDAY, JANUARY 28, 1885. OPENING SPEECH. By Sik Charles W. Dilke, Bart., M.P. President of the Conference. This is a Conference presided over by a committee of which a third are representatives of the Statistical Society, and it is as a member since 1867 of the Statistical Society, and as an old member of the Political Economy Club, that I have been asked to occupy the chair. The Conference is one of delegates of chambers of commerce, delegates of associations of capitalists, among whom we have Mr. Lowthian Bell, delegates of trades unions, among whom we have Mr. Burnett and other well- known men, delegates of Friendly Societies, and delegates of economic societies, such as Lord Bramwell, who comes on behalf of the Liberty and Property Defence League. The committee only offer a fair field for discussion, which they believe will prove useful. They have no collective opinion, and are not responsible for the opinions put forward by the various writers and speakers. So far as I have seen the papers, most of them are strongly in favour of large changes in the laws, but not in favour of what may be called communistic change. Those who will take part in the Conference belong to both great parties in the State, and represent very varying forms of opinion of all kinds. For my part, I am sorry that B 2 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. foreign opinion will not be largely represented here, and I am especially sorry that we have no representatives of that school of thouglit in Germany of which Fichte was the father, and the doctrines of which have descended throngh liassalle to no less a person than the Iron Chancellor. Ideas, revolutionary no doubt, but not worked out with revolutionary haste ; for even Lassalle declared that two centuries would be needed to replace the wages system by cme which, in his opinion, would be better. In 1878 Prince Bismarck used some words which we might take here as our text : — ' We try for Grovernment experi- ments on different systems of cultivation of the soil. Would it not be as well to try similar experiments as to the labour of man, and to try to solve, by the improvement of the toilers' lot, that social question which lies at the root of what is called Social Democracy?' In 1882, in pressing on the attention of his Chambers his plan of workmen's insurance, which was his own favourite child. Prince Bismarck said : — ' Our endeavour is to reach a state of things in which no man can say, " I bear the burden of society, but no one cares for me." The Kings of Prussia have been, are, and shall be, the kings of the poor, the kings of the beggars in rags.' As we have not the advantage of the presence of any representatives of these Grerman ideas, let me call the attention of the Conference to the fact that an account is given of a portion of Prince Bismarck's social policy in two able Parliamentary Papers which were circulated in 1883 and in 1884 respectively. The point which strikes one most forcibly in studying the science of political economy in relation to the whole development of human thought and life is its close and necessary connexion with morality, or ' morals.' If we take that branch of considerations which deal with the dis- tribution of wealth, of which the question of industrial remu- neration forms a part, we find that the science of political economy, while pointing out the inequalities which attend this distribution and the causes to which they are due, appeals for aid to the cultivation of habits of self-control, of foresight, to the development of the intelligence and of the moral nature. It is useful to bear in mind these considerations while discus- sing the question before us. Tliey will help us to a clearer OPENING SPEECH. 3 conception of what aid we may expect from society, from the State, and what we must expect from ourselves as individuals. By laying, for example, greater burdens on the wealthy, society may make the rich poorer, but it cannot make the toilers really richer unless the relief obtained is applied in such a way as to tend to the mental and moral development of the people. This is, to my mind, one of the greatest problems of our modern social change, and I shall look most anxiously for any light which your discussions may throw upon it. (Applause.) MOENING SESSION HAS THE INCREASE OF THE PRODUCTS OK INDUSTRY WITHIN THE LAST HUNDRED YEARS TENDED MOST TO THE BENEFIT OF CAPITALISTS AND EMPLOYERS OR TO THAT OF THE WORK- ING CLASSES, WHETHER ARTISANS, LABOURERS, OR OTHERS? AND IN WHAT RELATIVE PROPORTIONS IN ANY GIVEN PERIOD ? Has the Increase of the Products of Industry tended most to the Benefit of Capitalists or to that of the Working Classes ? By Sir Thomas Brassey, M.P. I HAVE consented to take part in this Conference in the hope that it may be the means of disseminating useful knowledge and experience among the masses whose lot it is to labour. It was well said by M. Turgot : ' On pent etre opprime par un seul tyran, mais on pent I'etre tout autant et aussi injustement par une multitude.' These are not times in which it is well to hold aloof from the trusted representatives of labour, or from the authors of new theories of industrial and social organisation. It may be that the discussions at this Conference will bring- to light some visionary schemes, but is there a man amongst us, who has given a thought to the subject, who sees no room for improvement in the existing economic condition ? Does any man question the advantage of a more equal distribution of wealth, or a closer community of interests between capitalists and workmen? To those who with the late lamented Mi. Fawcett have faith in the imlimited capacities of the human race to improve, a conference like this is a golden opportunity. To those who are hopeless, perhaps reckless, for the future, our discussions may appear contemptible. That is not the view of those who are assembled within these walls. WEDNESDAY MOKNING. 5 As to the tone in which our discussions shall be conducted, I cannot doubt that a generous toleration will smooth the asperities of debate. As the late Mr. Jevons truly said, in the introduction to his essay on The State in relation to Labour, ' The time has come when all class rancour, all bitter terms, all needless reference to former unfortunate occurrences should be laid aside. The economic errors of trades unions are after all not greater than those which pervaded the commercial and even the governing classes a generation ago.' Coming here as the representative of the capitalist class I shall ask that it may be remembered that abstinence from enjoyment is the only source of capital, that it is upon the increase of capital that advances of wages depend, while labour, on the other hand, to use the eloquent phrase of Mr. Mongredien, is the vivifying principle wliich preserves capital from decay. I much regret that the limits of , time will prevent me from entering upon many topics of the greatest practical importance, including the power and the functions of trades unions, the ex- tension of profit-sharing and co-operation, the representation of labour in Parliament, the recreations of the people, national edu- cation, and the value of our colonial connexion to the trade of the mother country and as a field for the energies of her sons. The loss on the present occasion of such men as Professor Fawcett and Mr. Jevons will be deeply deplored. And now let us turn to the special subject for discussion. To attack such a topic exhaustively in twenty minutes is impos- sible. In the circumstances, I have thought that to bring together the testimony of accredited authorities, giving their conclusions, without attempting to produce their facts, would be found an effective method of treating the subject. Beginning with the most recent writers, Mr. Jeans, the able Secretary of the British Iron Trade Association, has recently published a pamphlet on the comparative earnings of workmen at home and abroad. For England he estimates the average in 1880, at 42^. per year. In 1867, a similar calculation by Mr. Leone Levi resulted in an average of 38^. Since 1850, as Mr. Jeans shows, a more or less considerable rise in wages has been obtained throughout the whole civilised world — a rise 6 INDUSTRIAL REMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. exceeding that of any previous period of equal duration, and attributable to four principal causes — the application of steam to locomotion by sea and land ; the increasing use of labour- saving machinery ; the enormous increase in the exports and imports ; and the gold discoveries. According to the statistics compiled by Mr. Lord for the Manchester Chamber of Com- merce, the percentage of increase in 1883 over 1850 in ten leading industries was 39" 18 per cent., ranging from 10 per cent, in mechanical engineering to 74*72 in certain branches of the cotton trade. In agriculture, the advances prior to 1850 have been ascertained by Sir James Caird. The wages of agri- cultural labour in England were 7s. 3(L per week in 1770 ; 9s. 7d. in 1850; 14s. in 1878 ; and, in Cheshire, 17s. ()d. in 1880. In the 80 years prior to 1850 the advances were 2s. 4c/. a week or 32 per cent. In the next 28 years, the advances were 4s. 5d. or 46 per cent. Mr. Jeans gives his general conclusion as follows : There has been within recent years a tendency to the cheapening of articles of every-day consumption, and this move- ment, running concurrently with better remuneration for labour, has induced a higher standard of living than formerly. There is nothing to show that population is pressing on the means of subsistence. INIr. Mulhall, whose researches on this subject are known to all students of statistics, in the introduction to his volume, The Balance Sheet of the World, addresses himself to the special subject selected for discussion by this Conference. ' All indications point to the conclusion that the number of persons in easy circumstances, or at least above want, is increasing much faster than population.' He quotes in evidence ' the reduced ratio of paupers to population, 4*79 per cent, in 1870 and 3*29 in 1880.' He shows an increase of 20 per cent, in the consumption of imported food and tobacco, and of 30 per cent, in the deposits in the savings banks. Professor Rogers, who has carried his inquiry on the subject of wages far back into history, and who cannot be suspected of an undue partiality for the hereditary landowners or the capitalist classes, in his last volume, gives statistics which clearly show the melancholy condition of the labourer at the WEDNESDAY MORNINa. 7 close of the last and the beginning of the present century. In contrast with this gloomy picture of the past he expresses his conviction that ' the workmen of this country, speaking of them in the mass, are to-day better paid than those of any other settled and fully peopled country, if one takes into account not merely the money wages which they earn, but the power which those wages have over commodities. The rise is entirely of the last thirty years, and unfortunately it has not been shared by all in proportion.' I give one more quotation from a teacher of economic science. Professor Bonamy Price, in the chapter on trades unions in his treatise on political economy, expresses the opinion that, as an almost universal rule, industrial fortunes are not made out of a high rate of profit, but out of moderate profits earned by large operations. As an indication of the improved condition of the labouring class, he points to the fact that, while the population of London has trebled since 1815, the number of paupers is about the same. But while the numbers are unchanged, the cost of maintenance has been increased fivefold. The rule is, that the pauper shall be maintained at such a standard of living as is usual with labourers of the humblest class. The difference, therefore, in the cost of maintenance has arisen from the more liberal ideas which now prevail as to what is necessary for the poor. A much more elevated minimum of wages has been secured ; and the rise is not in nominal wages only, but in the effective purchasing power. A recent and strictly commercial view of the situation is given in the Economist review of the trade of 1882. The working-man has clone well. His food and clothing have been cheap, and work has been abundant. This state of matters places the power of saving throughout the country mainly in the hands of the class which, up to the present time, has saved least, and which invests such savings as it makes principally in fixed invest, ments or in Government securities. Statistics with reference to the state of trade, and the remu- neration and supply of laboiu-, are indispensable to form sound judgment as to the relative claims of capital and labour. In 8 INDUSTKIAL REMUNEEATION CONFEKENCE. the collection of statistics on this subject England is certainly not in advance of other countries. The statistics of the foreign trade of the country are tolerably complete ; but with regard to the internal trade, which is of far greater importance, the traffic returns of the railway companies are practically the chief indications of the fluctuations of our internal trade. The Government should take in hand the collection and pub- lication of the statistics of the internal trade of the country ; and with regard to the remuneration of labour and the cost of living, the Board of Trade should at frequent intervals issue publications similar to those put forth by the Bureau of Labour of the State of Massachusetts and by the Statistical Department at Washington. The wide extension of commerce and the greater facilities of communication by sea and land which we owe to the intro- duction of steam, have led to a steady reduction in the cost of the principal articles of consumption. The fluctuations, as determined by JNIr. Giffen, and expressed in the form of index numbers, are as follows :— 1865, 3,57o ; 1868, 2,682; 1879, 2,227 ; in 1 884, the Economist gives 2,221 as the index number. At the prices of 188.S the wheat imports of 1884 would have cost four millions more. For our imports of sugar we paid five millions less, and we imported a greater quantity. The cheapening of commodities has led to an increase of consumption which may be estimated roughly, for many articles of food not of the first necessity, at double the amount of twenty years ago. Turning from contemporary inquiries to former investi- gations, I would particularly refer to a paper read by Mr. Porter before the British Association in 1850 on the accumu- lation of capital by the different classes of society. Then, as now, the sources of information were limited. The deposits in the savings banks had largely increased. The return of the dividends upon portions of the public debt showed a large increase in the number of persons receiving £5, while other classes remained stationary. The comparisons of the Income Tax Keturns between 1812 and 1848 showed that while the total amount assessed had increased by 168*21 per cent., the increase in the lowest class, between 150/. and 500/. WEDNESDAY MORNING. 9 per annum, was more than 56 per cent, greater than in the highest class of incomes. He made a comparison of probate duty with similar results, and having examined all the official returns which have afforded means for arriving at the truth, he found the most perfect agreement in their results, all pointing to the conclusion that there was nothing to justify the fears of the probable disappearance of the middle classes. In the Progress of the Natiun, Mr. Porter deals most elaborately with the condition of the wage-earning classes. The following passage gives the general result of the inquiry : — If we look back on the condition of the masses of the people, as it existed in this country, even so recently as the beginning of the present century, and then look around us at the indications of the greater comfort and respectability which meet us on every side, it is hardly possible to doubt, that here in England at least the elements in social improvement have been successfully at work, and that they have been, and are, producing an increased amount of comfort in the great bulk of the people. It will be remembered that Mr. Porter was writino- but a short time after the miserable year 1842, a year of which Miss Martineau, in her History of the Peace, writes as follows : — In 1842, distress had so deepened in the manufacturing districts, as to render it clearly inevitable that many must die, while there seemed no chance of any member of the manufacturing class coming out of the struggle with a vestige of property. In Carlisle, a Committee of Inquiry found a quarter of the population in a state bordering on starvation. In Stockport, more than half the master spinners had failed. At Leeds, the paupers' stone heap amounted to 150,000 tons. In Dorsetshire, a man and his wife had for wages 2s. 6cZ. per week, and three loaves, and the ablest labourer had from 65. to 75. In so far as the public welfare can be promoted by the diminished pressure of taxation, the United Kingdom compares favourably with the rest of Europe. In the decennial period of 1870-80 the amount of taxes per inhabitant had increased, according to Mr. Mulhall, in Great Britain from Zl, 13s. od. to 2>l. 19s. 9cZ., while for the rest of Europe the increase was from \l, 18s. Id. to 21. 7s. The increase in Great Britain was 10 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. considerably less in amount, and the increased expenditure was devoted wholly to education and to the general improvement of the civil government of the country. The increased expen- diture on the Continent was devoted to military preparations. The changes are still more remarkable in the statistics of National Debt. The amount for each inhabitant of Great Britain was reduced from 251. Is. to 221. 9s. For Europe, on the other hand, the amount rose from 11. 16s. to 12^. 10s. As regards the incidence of taxation, the whole weight of the additional burdens in this country has been thrown on the capitalist classes. Our total expenditure increased from 77,440,000^. in 1874 to 89,000,000/. in 1883, while the revenue from customs and excise exhibits no material change. The increased expenditure has been met by an advance of two millions on the stamp duties and by raising the income tax from 3c?. to %^d. in the pound. Fair Trade — or, in other words, Protection — has been advocated as a means of improving the condition of our agricultural and industrial population. These retrograde proposals have, happily, found little support among the thoughtful and instructed representatives of labour. They well know that free trade has been a mitigating force, that it has preserved the people from the alternatives of misery and comparative plenty which they experienced before the repeal of the corn duties. Of the legislation of recent years it may be confidently asserted that it is marked by an earnest desire to do justice to labour. The Factory Acts, with which the honoured name of Shaftesbury will be for ever associated, were the beginning of a new era of labour legislation. The right of the labourers to combine to raise their wages, which had been denied to them from the reign of Elizabeth, was recognised at last by the Act of 1875. By that statute it was declared that no combination of persons was to be deemed criminal if the act proposed to be done would not be criminal when done by one person. This seems an obvious principle, but it was new to the law of England. When the present Administration came into power the Employers' Liability Act was one of the first measures which they inscribed on the statute book. Among the various WEDNESDAY MOENING. 11 efiforts made by the Government of this country to raise the condition of the masses, the Education Act and its necessary accompaniment, the extension of the franchise in the counties, are, perhaps, the first in order of importance. No agencies are so capable as these of securing the moral and material advance- ment of the people. In raising the efficiency of labour the results of education are certain. Much yet remains to be done in education. Our educational wants include not only the primary instruction which is now happily universal, but that technical education which is far more fully and cheaply organ- ised on the Continent than with us. Our educational wants include some homely subjects which have hitherto been too much neglected in this country. I would refer, as an illustra- tion, to the art of cooking. With more skill in the use of materials it is certain that much might be done to diminish the cost of living without diminishing the standard of comfort. Economy in household expenditure is better understood in many parts of the Continent than with us. A most useful movement has been set on foot at South Kensington to extend the knowledge of cookery. Progress must of necessity be slow ; but great results may, ultimately, be accomplished. I conclude this branch of my subject with an extract from the History of Lord Macaulay. It contains an observation which is abundantly supported by the active sympathy for the improvement of the masses which we see on every side. Con- trasting the wages paid in the time of Sir William Petty with the wages and prices of the date when he was writing. Lord Macaulay says : — A hard struggle for life was maintained, by accepting a miserably low standard of living, by the cruel and reckless employment of child labour, and by supplementing wages from the poor-rates to such an extent that in the reign of Charles II. the poor-rate was little less than half of the entire revenue of the State. The more carefully we examine the history of the past, the more reason shall we find to dissent from those who imagine that our age has been fruitful of new social evils. The truth is that the evils are, with scarcely an exception, old. That which is new is the intelli- gence which discerns and the humanity which remedies them. 12 INDUSTKIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE, Having shown what advances have taken place in the accu- mulated wealth and in the general well-being of the country, I will give some evidence to prove that tendency of profits to a minimum which must inevitably result from the progress of civilisation and the providence and sense of security which it creates. The rate of profit in business is a subject of great im- portance to the labourer. More or less, wages must follow the fluctuation in profits. In many trades the want of correct information as to the profits realised by their employers con- stitutes a great difficulty for workmen. They do not know when to press their demand, nor when to acquiesce in reduction iu the rate of remuneration for their labour. It may be safely affirmed, speaking of the larger industries of the country, that profit in excess of the ordinary returns, not immoderate iu amount, which is obtainable through commercial operations, can only be realised under exceptional circumstances. A new discovery, a new process, the exclusive command of a good opportunity, will enable the employer for a time to realise a temporary advantage ; but sooner or later he will be deprived of that advantage by competition. The larger the accumula- tion of capital in a country the greater will be the tendency of profits to a minimum, the keener will be the competition in any industry which happens for a time to afford the prospect of exceptional profits. Writing some thirty years ago, the returns upon safe invest- ments in England were estimated by Mr. John Stuart Mill at from 3 to 4 per cent. In the near future he believed that the annual increase of capital would bring down the rate of profit to 1 per cent, but for the counteracting circumstances of waste of capital in periods of overtrading, improvements in produc- tion, greater facilities for obtaining cheap commodities from foreign countries, and the perpetual overflow of capital into colonies in search of higher profits. The present rate of profit upon investments may be gauged with accuracy by tests which it is easy to apply. The high price of the funds and of railway debentures is an evidence at once of the accumulation of savings, and of the increasing diffi- WEDNESDAY MORNING. 13 culty of finding naore profitable investments. The average price of consols has advanced from 88 in 1860 to 93| in 1875. It has ranged from 99f to 102|- in 1884. Four per cent, deben- ture stocks of our railway companies are issued at the rate of many millions per year, and the price has advanced to 116. Other indications of a similar character are afforded by a com- parison of the net returns of our railways and the premiums upon stocks. In 1882 the net receipts upon an authorised rail- way capital of 878 millions were 4-32 per cent. The stocks of the more important lines would not return at present prices a rate of interest in excess of the average net receipts for the whole capital invested in railways. The fluctua- tions in the Bank rate in ten years, 1873-1883, have been n«! follows? • 43 Qi 95 »27 Q3 91 91 ol_ A I og Tf the secure profits of business had been greatly in excess of the Bank rate, there would have been less money on deposit, and higher rates would have been charged for banking accommoda- tion. The average returns upon other descriptions of enterprises are given by Mr. Mulhall as follows : On capital in banks, 270 millions, 6*5 per cent.; on mines and ironworks, 315 millions, 5'5 per cent. ; on shipping, 193 millions, 5 per cent. The average return on a total capital of 2,433 millions is 4*4 per cent. The comparison of these figures with similar statistics from foreign countries will show that English labour commands the use of capital at lower rates of interest than have as yet been accepted in any other country with the exception of Holland. The advantage which must result to industry of every descrip' tion cannot be exaggerated. The English landlord is satisfied with 3 per cent, on money advanced for agricultural improve- ments. The cultivators of the soil in Germany have to pay to the ' People's Banks,' established by Herr Schulze-Delitzsch, rates of interest ranging from 6 to 6i per cent. The ' People's Banks ' were specially established to supply loans to borrowers in humble life at a lower rate than they had heretofore been called upon to pay, and to destroy the monopoly of capitalists in the profits arising from money-lending. The assessments of the income tax are another indication of the average profits of our industries. The recent fluctuations 14 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. in the returns were described by Mr. Gladstone in his Budget Speech on the 4th of April, 1881. Tracing the worth of Id. of the income tax from 1842, when the tax was first laid, he showed that in the period 1852-1877, the produce per penny of the income tax had grown from 810,000/. to 1,990,000/. Having grown to these figures, the Id. income tax, which does not represent, as he truly said, the general condition of the people, but the condition of the wealthier classes of the people, had gone back for the first time since it was imposed. The Id. of income tax was estimated for 1881-1882 at 1,943,000/. The diminished returns of the income tax to which Mr. Gladstone referred are the more remarkable because in certain descriptions of property, such as houses and railways, the onward movement continues in a certain sense automatically. In house property for example, in the 6 years 1876-1882, the annual value increased from 97,000,000/. to 121,000,000/. It will be evident from these figures how large has been the diminution in the return from other descriptions of business in which conflicts can arise, as between labour and capital, in the appropriation of profits. At the present time we may take 3 per cent, as the average rate of interest obtainable by the idle investor. Anything beyond that which does not represent insurance to cover extra risk or the reward of labour and skill will be speedily cut down by competition. The effects of competition in bringing down the profits to a minimum are exhibited in a striking manner in those branches of trade which at the present time are in tlie least prosperous condition. Why is it that the profits on the coal and iron trades have fallen below the i-eturns obtainable in other great branches of industry ? It was because extraordinary profits, though realised for a sliort period, led to a development of production which still remains far in excess of the normal demand. In the two years 1870-1872, the quantity of coal produced in the United Kingdom was increased b}' no less than 13 millions of tons. In the iron trade the inflation due to similar causes has been of a more recent date. Comparing the years 1879-1882, the production of pig iron was increased from 5,995,000 tons to 8,493,000 tons, while the production of steel rails was increased from 520,000 to 1,236,000 tons. In ship- WEDNESDAY MOKNING. 15 ping, the latest instance of over-production, the registered steam tonnage was increased from 2,723,000 tons in 1880 to 3,728,000 tons in 1883. With such a development of the carrying power a reduction of freights to a point which left no remuneration for the shipowner was inevitable. At the present time our docks are filled with vessels laid up, and the principal com- panies running between Liverpool and the United States are unable to declare a dividend to their shareholders. A cursory examination of the dividends on the joint stock companies connected with the coal and iron trades will show that in 1 884 the maximum returns rarely reached, and still more seldom exceeded, i per cent., while the instances were numerous in which no dividend was declared. I happen to be a share- holder in a large coal mine in South Wales. It is under the able management of Sir George Elliott. When the coal famine caused the excessive advance of price, he clearly predicted the disastrous results which must follow. For a long period of years no dividend has been declared. In the meanwhile it has been impossible to stop the working of the mine, and with a view to diminish the cost of working a large expenditure of capital has been called for. We are in a better position than before to take advantage of a favourable turn in the market, but of this there is as yet no prospect. I have been led to refer to a particular instance because it is a striking illustration of that mutually destructive competition, which is certain to follow any abnormal advance beyond the very moderate rate of profit which is usually obtainable in this country. The state of trade in the United States has for some years exhibited a most striking illustration of the ultimate disastrous results of an exaggerated rate of profit. Protection was origi- nally introduced as a ready means of at once paying off the debt incurred during the Civil War and encouraging the develop- ment of domestic manufactures. For this purpose rates of duty ranging from 20 to 200 per cent, were imposed on foreign goods. In the first instance profits were increased in corre- sponding ratio. These profits unduly stimulated production, while the manufacturers, enervated by the tariff, were incapable of competing in point of price with the foreign manufacturers 16 INDUSTRIAL EHMUNERATION CONFERENCE. in any other market but tlieir own. After a few years the American market became glutted with excessive supplies of goods. So long ago as 1878 Mr. Blane, the Chairman of the Maryland Convention, called attention to the fact that 1,200,000' able-bodied men were out of employment, and that numbers were roaming about the country a terror to the resident popula- tion. The state of affairs at the present time in the United States affords evidence of the disastrous results of a protec- tionist policy. In spite of the advantage afforded by a liberal system of public education, leading to a marvellous develop- ment of ingenuity and great efficiency of labour, and with an ample supply of the raw materials, we find that the operatives in the cotton trade of Massachusetts are in a position a great deal worse than that of the operatives of England. They work more hours and harder, the pay in many cases is less, while rents are from two to three times higher, fuel 104 per cent., clothing 70 to 80 per cent, higher, and other things in propor- tion. The reduction of wages since 1874 is no less than 50 per cent. The dividends on the joint-stock mills may be accepted as an indication of the average return on the capital invested in the cotton industry of the United Kingdom, and we find the dividends range from 12 per cent, to 5 per cent. These returns are not excessive, but they are sufficient. They are far more advantageous in the end, both for capital and labour, than the high profits which have been realised in this country in the iron and coal trades, and in America from the unwise fiscal system adopted under the circumstances already described, but the unwisdom of which, under the pressure of the present hard times, is becoming only too palpable to the industrial community which is suffering so severely from its effects. While I have shown how the profits realised by employers, under the present organisation of industry, have been brought down by competition, the large accumulations of capital in this country being derived from savings rather than profits, I readily admit that the division of the industrial world into employers witli and labourers without wealth does not present a perfect ideal. Under the present system, as Mr. Jevons truly said, every demand for wages and every strike is made in the WEDNESDAY MORNING. 17 dark, and the point to which the master carries resistance is the only real test of the sincerity of his professions. In spite, however, of its obvious disadvantages, the actual constitution of industry exists because it is the easiest and the most natural. To work as a member of a co-operative association demands higher moral qualities than are required, either in employers or work- men, in the more usual industrial relations. Mr. Fawcett, an earnest advocate of co-operative industry, was fully alive to its difficulties. He knew that the joint-stock company could not compete successfully with the individual trader in any business where constant watchfulness and attention to small details are of essential importance. The co-operative plan is not adapted to trades exposed to the uncertainties inseparable from agriculture. We have seen how spasmodic and fitful are the profits in mining and in the iron manufacture. Even in the textile industries, where the conditions vary less from year to year, a fair average cannot be taken over a period of less than ten years. These are not con- ditions which are suitable to men accustomed to receive the whole of their earnings in the form of weekly wages. The necessity for providing capital wherewith to commence operations presents another difficulty which can only be overcome by the establishment of limited liability companies, in which membership is not necessarily limited to the operatives em- ployed. Even in agriculture, the co-operative plan can scarcely be adopted sufficiently widely to tell upon the condition of the farm labourers as a body. Every improvement in agriculture demands a large outlay. Draining, the purchase of stock, the formation of roads, fencing, laying down land to grass, the construction of buildings, all these are operations involving large preliminary expense, with a remote and uncertain re- turn. Profit sharing is another form of co-operation. In many cases the distribution of a bonus on profits is a wholesome stimulus to exertion, and an act of justice to workmen. Even a percentage on profits is not unattended with difficulty. If the wage-earner were required, as a condition of sharing in the profits of a good year, to accept a reduction of wages in a losing c 18 INDUSTRIAL EEMUMERATION CONFERENCE. year, the system would be less acceptable to many than a steady average wage. Such being the difficulties, practical as well as theoretical, an extensive change in the present industrial system is highly improbable. It is, however, in the highest degree desirable as far as possible to liberate industry from the deadening in- fluence caused by the antagonism of interest between capital and labour. Nothing will so facilitate the development of co- operative industry as the spread of education. It tends to develop those qualities of independence, self-denial, and reso- lution without which an industrial partnership cannot be carried out with success. INIany examples might be quoted of co-operative work. Some of the earliest are given by Mr. Smiles in his essay on Thrift. The fisheries have been largely conducted on this principle for hundreds of years. From the earliest dawn of history the tin-miners of Cornwall have been co-operators. In Paris co-operative industry has long been advocated by social reformers. Several examples have been described by Mr. Sedley Taylor. In the business of house-painting and decora- tion, the Maison Leclaire paid in 1882 wages to the amount of 43,000^., while a bonus of 9,630L, or 22 per cent, on the wages, was distributed amongst 998 participants. Mr. Taylor also quotes numerous instances of the payment of a bonus based on profits by private individuals, such as M. Chaix, the bookseller, and M. Bord, manufacturer of pianofortes. He also gives details of a similar system carried out by the Orleans Eailway Company, and by the Vieille Montaigne Zinc Com- pany, of Liege, which gives employment to 6,500 hands. The list on next page, prepared by the secretary of an associa- tion for the purpose of extending the co-operative system in England, shows that, to the limited extent to which this organi- sation has been carried out in this country, a fair measure of success has been attained. With these examples before us, with the immense advan- tages derived from an improved national education, and with the aid of many men of distinguished abilities, who have en- listed in the cause from the purest and most philanthropic WEDNESDAY MORNING. 19 o £ w a O o o 05[' o o 3 03 C5 ■a 00 1 s o 13 O o o co' 1-^ O 5 o 3 S3 o o O -►J to p s3 tc 1 il.9 fl O 03 O o , . -^c-." o"« 3 « i 03 o s S ,__, S -, O -3 00,^ Is XJ ID S ^ c; o w J3 \-* J O ■A r^ 5c 3 a^ ^— I'M :« 03 — 1 p^ ■l rs o, Si O I— 1 la t- la t^ lO O 6 p ^ o -* o o -Tt< t^ t^ GO 'M Ci CO lO 1-- 'O «o -o X) i:: (M O C^ O c o C3 i^ o O 3 O O 00 C<) 00 11 t- 1^ CO -+^ 1 *0 O CO 1 -*< o CO =t?^ C-) -t< 0-1 C5 1—1 1 r^ I^I t- S^ ^" co" rH "3 b- o t~ Co o c ^ »o o_ co__ rt la Co ^ O -1 l^ 00 oo CO 2 S o w o S-l (H 03 O 00 X 3 1 .2" 6 o 15 £d 03 03 a fee d 'S "S 1^ .9 5=0 .9 6 O 6 d OO o :3 •;3 bJD.i« "3 ^ S be 6 be be 9 " - a o r .n o O j:«; S r^ d rf o 'i- 'sm 'S ^ ^ ^ C t-H -i-^ i— < o ^ ^-1 O =3 fl ^ ^ c5 C be O .2 CJ o bo .9 O 03 .9 > c3 c3 cS 2h >>g 1 o 13 2 03 3 cc S !r! !h 03 03 5 o O 6 o 03 -^ -d O 03 J ~ Ztt -< a o H W WH ^ JHQ Cl, Ti rl >^ 1— 1 r> Ui Ul a m (13 cS ^ n S-i Q^ P< C. O CM 03 O ;-. o 03 a 03 pQ 03 .rt bcS C be ■ - ijj ^ c 2 20 INDl^STRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. motives, we have reason to hope that, in the future, we shall see many co-operative establishments growing up side by side with those carried on upon the old footing. The latter will always be the more numerous, but the moral effect of a further develop- ment of co-operation will be felt over the whole industrial world. I am confident that the effect will be beneficial, and that opera- tives, as they become acquainted with their difficulties, will be more contented with the wages they earn fi-om their employers. My allotted space is now exhausted. I have endeavoured to answer the first question submitted to this Conference by laying before you the impartial testimony of the most competent economists. Their opinions lend no support to the vague impression which prevails that the rich are growing richer and the poor poorer than before. Progress — real progress — has been made towards a more satisfactory social order. But we are very far from having attained to an ideal state of perfection. A more even distribution of wealth, a more complete identity of interest between capital and labour, are earnestly to be desired. In so far as that consummation is to be accomplished by the workmen themselves — and they must be active instru- ments in their own advancement — our hopes for the future rest on co-operative industry. Their efforts must commence with the simplest forms of industrial organisation — those which require the least amount of capital and are most free from the fluctuations so painfully feit in international commerce. In industries which cannot be organised so readily on the co- operative plan, the extended operations of the joint-stock companies will secure the publication of profits and afford opportunities to the workmen for participation, as holders of shares, in the profits of capital. One condition is essential. The workman must save from his present earnings. This con- dition is easy for the Celt. It is hard for the more vigorous but more open-handed Englishman. The improved returns from savings banks and building societies encourage the hope of a growing capacity for tlirift in the Anglo-Saxon race. Having referred to the workmen, what should be said to the capitalists ? Capital is amassed, for the most part, by individual contributions of very modest proportions. But the aggregate WEDNESDAY MOENING. 21 sum is immense, and as it is capable, under wise direction, of conferring the greatest benefits on the community, so by inju- dicious investments deplorable suffering and misery may be caused. To the excessive accumulation of capital in the hands of individuals there are obvious objections, if not from an economic, at least from a social, point of view ; but the accumulation of capital in the aggregate, apart from its distribution among individuals, is essential to the prosperity of labour. The figures quoted in this paper show au average rate of profit on in- vestment in British industries so moderate that if it were materially reduced there would be no inducement to engage in any industrial operations. In the absence of any exceptional profits to cover the risks of business, Grovernment stocks, rail- way debentures, and mortgages would be the only channels in which savings would be invested. The price of guaranteed securities would advance enormously, and the growth of industry would be arrested with results most disastrous to the wage-earning classes. At various epochs in our industrial history the public has been possessed with manias for the extension of railways, mills, mines and ironworks, and for loans to bankrupt States. The consequence of alternations such as I have described in the iron trade and shipping are shared by all concerned. The price of labour depends on the demand for it. We have an example in the earnings of the Scotch colliers, which rose from 3s. 9d. a day in 1870 to 9s. lid. in 1873, and fell to 4s. 8d. in 1876 and 3s. 2d. in 1878. Changes of this violent character entail great misery on the wage-earner. In the shipbuilding trades the state of affairs on the Clyde in 1883 was thus described in the columns of Iron : — In time of ordinary activity about 40,000 men are employed in ship- building on the Clyde. The numbers have increased during the past twelve months to over oO,000. Wages have gone up by leaps and bounds. Eiveters' wages liave increased 50 per cent. ; fitters', 25 per cent. ; caulkers', over 90 per cent. By the piece-work rates caulkers earn about 2l. lis. per week ; riveters, 4:1. 10s. and upwards ; fitters, 51., and in many cases over 7l. a week. At the present time, after an 22 IXDUSTEIAL KE5IUNEEATI0N CONi'EllENCE. interval of little more than a year, how different would be the reports we should receive of the condition of the labour market on the Clyde. The total number of hands employed in shipbuilding has been reduced, according- to Mr. Jeans, from 94,700 in 1883 to 59,200 in 1884. If, as ]Mr. Grreg most truly said, the money squandered in many a barren enterprise had been expended on comfortable dwellings for the labouring poor, what an inestimable boon would have been conferred ! The sharp lessons of the past should teach caution, not discouragement. The fact which lies at the root of competition is the insufficiency of work for the workmen who are seeking it. Of all forms of investment at present open to British ca])ital, none could confer a greater benefit than the building of industrial dwellings, and judicious advances for colonial enterprise. Among the owners of capital the wealthy are the few — so few indeed, that, as an economic force for the regeneration of society, their utmost efforts of self-denial would exercise no appreciable difference : but if we may argue on tlie one hand, with the late ■Mr. Bagehot, tliat it is not a Spartan or ascetic state which most generates saving, and that without the multi- farious wants which are called luxury, there would be far less saving than there is, we must admit, on the other hand, that all consumption of luxuries is unproductive. It creates a temporary employment, while it destroys the capital, which, if saved, would have been a permanent addition to the wages fund. The excesses of self-indulgence have been held up to universal obloquy by the poet-laureate in the opening lines of the Palace of Art : — I built myself a lordly pleasure house, In which at ease for aye to dwell. I said unto my soul, ' Make merry and carouse, Dear soul ! for all is well.' To the truly wise man a life of ease presents no allurements. He knows how hard it is to avoid giving provocation to envy WEDNESDAY MOENING. 23 and hatred. He is humbled aud saddened by the perpetual consciousness of the misery around him. Taste and the sense of duty alike point to simplicity of life. Wealth, if valued at all, will be valued only as a power which it is his duty to use as a steward for the public good. Profits of Industry and the Workers. By Lloyd Jones. The question proposed for discussion to-day is important ; it is also difficult. ' Has the increase of the products of industry within the last hundred years tended most to the benefit of capitalists and employers or to that of the working classes, whether artisans, labourers, or others ? and in what relative proportions in any given period ? ' Before attempting to answer this question we ought to understand what the industrial state of England was at, or about, the time when our inquiry begins. Nearly all state- ments in regard to wages, profits, social condition of the workers, wealth of the employers, and general state of the nation are more or less conjectural. Our industrial condition since the middle of last century has been completely revolu- tionised, not only as regards methods of work, but also as regards the industrial and social condition of the worker ; and though it would be impossible to prove every point in such a statement by elaborately prepared tables of figures, we may, by an examination of the facts of our industrial history as a nation, arrive at fairly reliable conclusions as to how the people of England worked and lived before machinery was so universally applied for productive purposes. Arkwright took his first patent in 1769. Hargreaves, Crompton, Cartwright, Watt, and Whitney made up a group whose labours completely altered the industrial aspect of the world. Previously to this time the man as a worker was the main reliance, and the increase of our industrial resources was principally sought in a judicious division of labour. From this 24 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. time human labour, though still necessary in connexion with machinery, became subordinate to it ; and how to develop and make perfect mechanical power became a matter of much more serious consideration, in a business sense, than how to develop and improve the faculties and powers of man in a human sense, or how in any way to improve his condition, industrially and socially, by aid of the newly-acquired power placed in the hands of society. During what may be called the pre-mechanical times, England, for reasons which need not be further alluded to here, had but a very limited foreign trade, especially in manufactured articles. Our chief source of employment was the land, and our skilled and manufacturing industries were such as were needed to meet the wants of our own people. In this way demand for commodities increased as our population increased. In actual amount at any given time, and in the increase of this over any given period, neither could outrun the other to any very inconvenient length. When the community was supplied and the expense of production defrayed, the profit remaining might be regarded as little more than was necessary to make such extended provision for an increasing trade as might be found necessary. Under such conditions excessive speculative production could not be entered on. The employer, whose business increased, provided for such increase out of the profits his growing trade had given him. Increase was slow : there were no ' leaps and bounds ' ; there were few panics or crises ; there were no colossal fortunes ; the manufacturing millionaire was a playful, unrealisable fancy, not a reality known to the officials at the Probate Court. The working man was also different in position and condition from what he is to-day. For the most part labour operations were carried on in the home of the employer, or in accommo- dation attached to the house he inhabited. The worker served a seven years' apprenticeship to his employer, who himself had obtained his right to carry on his trade by an apprenticeship served in liis youth. The number of apprentices was regulated by the number of journeymen, and thus the new ' hands' found their Avay to where increase of trade was actually taking place. WEDNESDAY MOENING. 25 The absolute separation ot the worker from his employer which prevails at the present day was then impossible. The ap- prenticeship and [the journeyman ship that followed, partook somewhat of the family relation ; and it is recorded that the friendships and afifections of the family were frequently con- tinued in the workshop. In times ot brisk trade there was willing activity on the part of the worker, and, when trade was slack, hospitality and help from the employer. The income of the nation was not known with any certainty then any more than it is now. Sinclair, in his History of the Public Revenue of the British Umpire,^ tells us that Henry VIII. had a survey made of the whole kingdom — of the number of inhabitants, their age, professions, wealth, income, and every other important particular. This survey is unfortunately lost, the only thing which it contained at present known being * that the income of the whole kingdom was estimated at four millions pei* annum.'' He also gives us in the second part of the same work (page 9) the estimate of the income of the nation, made by Arthur Young about the time our inquiry -commences. £ Income from land 63,000,000 From manufactm-es 20,000,000 From commerce and the colonial possessions 17,000,000 100,000,000 Mulhall states the income of England in 1770 at 122 millions, whilst Pultney's estimate of the capital of the country at the same period in land, houses, stock of all kinds, materials for manufacture, shipping, cash, money in the funds, in short everything that can be denominated wealth or property, at 1,000 millions.^ This may be taken as the industrial con- dition of England. The employers and artisans worked on a system that had been slowly formed by the daily experience of centuries, and which had the sanction of deeply-rooted custom, and, it may be added, deeply-rooted prejudice. That it answered all the claims of justice need not be asserted here ; that there was neither deep suffering nor dangerous discontent > Sinclair, vol. i., p. 115. - Ibid. vol. i., p. 9. 2G INDUSTRIAL KEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. I do not say ; all I desire to make clear is that the employing^ class and the working class were more on an equality socially than they now are, and that the extremes of poverty and wealth were not so dangerously distant. Dr. Aikin tells us how the ' eminent Manchester manufacturer of the early part of the eighteenth century took his porridge breakfast, surrounded by his sons and daughters, who helped him in his business, as early as six o'clock in the morning, and dipped their spoons in a dish of milk that stood beside the porridge.' And Eatcliffe, in his book entitled Ongin of the New System of Manufacture, says that, when he was a young man in 1785, any young weaver might from his earnings lay by sufficient to set him up as a manufacturer, and he himself did this. He describes also the condition of the weavers and of their houses a hundred years ago as one of such comfort that it seems at the present time to be incredible. But perhaps the best test of the general condition of the working portion of the population is to be found in the amount spent on the poor annually in poor-rates. Such expenditure, however it may be called, is a payment to meet requirements on the part of the most necessitous of our workers, which the wages earned are not sufficient to meet ; that is making allowance for exceptional misfortunes, and the self-provoked sufferings of the ill-conducted, w^hich operate at all periods. This fund, as Mr. Senior tells us in his essay on the English Poor Laivs,^ averaged for the three years ending 1750, 690,000/. odd a year, which is but slightly over the aver- age from 1673, up to that time. I do not urge any fact stated here as proof of a high state of prosperity. I am simply seeking to make plain the actual condition of the people, the amount of comfort they secured, and the misery they avoided by the use they made of the means at their disposal. I have stated that whether we consider this state of things satisfactory or not, it was the slow growth of time. It had no pretence to scientific initiation ; its worst features were not justified by scientific arguments, based on abstruse principles. It was the child of time with sucli amendments as experience ' Edinburgh llcriov, October 1S41. WEDNESDAY MOENING. 27 Lad succeeded in effecting ; and such faults and abuses as self- interest and prejudice were strong enough to preserve. Of the new industrial life begotten by the inventions of the remarkable men already named, the birth may be said to have been instantaneous, and tbe growth rapid. An enormous power beyond our means of calculation was placed in our hands. Our knowledge of how to use and direct it had not come with it. It demanded intelligence, wisdom, and humanity to deal with it in its facts and consequences ; and these unfortunately were not to be had when wanted. Intelligence to develop its power in the work of production ; wisdom to adapt it to the other productive forces of the world, so as to avoid loss or injury by antagonisms of interest ; humanity to fit it to satisfy the requirements of society at large, rather than those of a class ; and thus to connect it with human labour, so that it should help the worker, without displacing and ruining him, in its first in- troduction. I wish here to guard against misunderstanding, by saying that I am friendly to the introduction of machinery. I am simply speaking of the method of introducing and working it, so that it may be a blessing to men, and not in any way an injury or a curse. Machinery as a great productive force became at first the possession of those who had money. The inventors at the very beginning were taken captive by the possessors of capital. Some of them did well in their bondage, others not so welL The masses of the workers were absolutely shut out by their want of means individually. As the Combination Laws were not repealed till 1824, it is clear that nothing could be done by associative efforts to obtain possession of any portion of the new mechanical productive po^ver then rapidly coming inta existence. Day by day this increased, and the first effect was to produce more rapidly than the existing markets required. All articles so produced became much cheaper ; but habit of use and means of purchase were not sufficient to carry off the greatly augmented production of the country. The first effect, therefore, of the comparatively extensive estab- lishment of mechanical production was to disemploy the hand- worker. . His old method of production rapidly fell into 28 INDUSTEIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. disuse ; as, in addition to its clumsiness and dearness, the markets were kept constantly overstocked by the product of the machine. The distress of the country and the increase of the poor had other causes besides the displacement of labour, the American and French wars being amongst the number ; but it is a significant fact that over the whole of the time we have been in possession of this marvellous productive power the poor-rates have been continually on the increase. As already stated, a three years' average was, in 1750, under 700,000/. In 1785, 1,912,000/. was the average over a similar time. When the present century opened, however, this was above 4,000,000/. During the machine-breaking period it had gone to above seven millions sterling. In 1820 it was 7,330,256/. In 1834, the poor-rates, as stated by Senior, amounted to 7,511,219/. By the passing of the Poor Law Amendment Act, they were reduced to 5,110,683/. All this time machinery had gone on increasing, and the wealth of the country rapidly growing. Now in 1884, taking into account our enormous mechanical and chemical productive powers, and the wealth produced (so far as we can estimate it), side by side with a poor-rate over 8,000,000/. sterling, for England alone, the inquiry of to-day cannot be considered premature or unnecessary. I believe there is no correct estimate of the mechanical power we possess, counted as manual, or man power. Pro- fessor Leone Levi, in his lectures entitled Woi'k and Pay, delivered in 1877, tells us that ' to make by hand all the yarn spun in England in one year, by the use of the self-acting mule carrying 1,000 spindles, viz., 1,000 threads at the time, we would require 100,000,000 of men.' We may now say that our mechanical power, including railways and steamships, must be equal at least to 1,000,000,000 of men. What this produces in annual wealth, compared with what was annually produced before om industrial mechanism was invented and applied, nobody can tell. In what proportions this is divided amongst our several classes, many have attempted to inform us ; and though their tables of figures look formidable, it is right to say they are not WEDNESDAY MOENING. 29 accurate, for the simple reason that the requisite facts are too numerous, intricate, and obscure to be ascertained. The amount of our productive power is unknown ; the market value of our produce, which is always varying, is never certain. The profit on the vast business done in the multitude of articles we produce is, and most likely ever must be, absolutely un- known. The proportion that goes to the higher and middle classes cannot be discovered. Eent of land may be pretty accurately estimated ; profits on trade, wholesale or retail, never. The statistician makes a wild guess, and tables it in figures ; but he, in fact, leaves the matter where he found it. ]Mr. Griffen, I have no doubt, tries to get as near the fact as possible, of the profits on the foreigni investments of our monied men, acknow- ledged and unacknowledged. He says, ' I believe I shall be confirmed by those who know the city, in the opinion that much income comes home from abroad which is not returned to the income tax authorities ; those estimates fully warrant me in set- ting down 40,000,000^. as the foreign income omitted from the income tax returns.' ^ This one fact vitiates all argument as to the income of the monied classes. If the income tax collectors can allow such a sum to slip through their fingers, having many better reasons for ferreting out the truth than our statisticians, it is startling to think of what may escape in connexion with the wholesale and retail trade, and the multi- tude of investments made by our traders and others at home. Groing from our manufacturers and traders to oar working people, the dijfficulties of the statistician increase. It is easy enough to venture an estimate of the numbers belonging to that loosely defined class, commonly called the working class ; and it is not difficult to say that they earn so much, each individual by the day, the week, or the year. It seems one of the easiest things possible, by addition and subtraction, to settle what the wage earners of a family receive; and by extending the calculation to show what is the gross annual income of the millions who live on the wages they earn. The numbers of the class being stated, and the supposed daily income set down, all the rest follows with admirable clearness. It is usually forgotten ' Essays in Finance, p. 171. :30 INDUSTEIAL KEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. that there are serious deductions to be made from an income so reckoned on account of sickness and broken time, through misfortunes in the workshop, and a number of minor causes, which, although they do not attract public notice, are yet serious causes of loss and suffering to large numbers of working- men. In addition to these, it may be said that if we set down half the members of any skilled trade as belonging to their trade society, it will be found that every such body has a number of its members out of employment — in times of bad trade, a large number ; when trade is good, a smaller number ; but always some. The half, not in the union, are usually worse situated, as the men do not help each other so willingly ; and, as a rule, are not so steady or so well skilled as the men belonging to the unions. We have no stated allowance for lost time. This is so im- portant a matter in connection with wages, that the sum de- ducted ought to be distinctly stated. Mr. Hey, one of the Secretaries of the JNIoulders' Union, has prepared an elaborate account from the books of his society, and finds the time lost by their members to be 20 per cent, or one-fifth of the whole. This calculation, if carried out over the non-union workers, would be much increased, and this has to be added to depressions of trade like that existing at present ; and though generous efforts have usually been made to relieve the sufferings of those out of work, it is not going too far to say that not only savings, but wages, yet unearned, have to be largely used to get rid of the indebtedness incurred at such times. Professor Leone Levi, in a recent article in the Times, brings the wages of the workers up to 523 millions sterling; but the calculation of Mr. Hey rubs out over 100 millions of this amount. Beyond this the improvements and depressions of trade are continually occurring, and these changes and uncertainties have an exceedingly bad effect on the condition of our working- population. Mr. W. M. Halbert, in his book called Economic and Financial Science, points out, that there is what he denominates a cycle of seasons in trade, that bring round periodical revolutions known as financial crises. Each decade, in its parallel years, presents commercial phases almost alike if WEDNESDAY MORNING. 31 not identical ; and he shows by undeniable facts that this is the case. He giv^es the years and states the principal causes. In 1826, the culminating- cause lay in foreign loans and mining speculation ; 1837 and 1838, the great American panic; 1847, great railway panic and Irish potato rot ; 1857, financial panic, including Western Scottish Bank failure ; 1866, Overend Gurney as one fact in the general disaster. In these five periods there were sixty years out of which there were six years of financial crises and financial depression ; fifteen years of great depression and general stagnation ; six years of slow recovery from depression and stagnation ; six years of decided recovery from commercial depression ; eighteen years of prosperous and remunerative commercial enterprise ; and eleven years of over- trading and commercial reaction. If the description given by Mr. Halbert is kept in mind, it will be seen that over thirty of these years mean a strongly depressed, or a declining, and a recovering trade. In these three conditions the working-men of the country are very un- favourably situated. The employer's chief resource, to curtail expense of production, at such times lies in a curtailment of the wages of labour. He has little or no influence over the price of raw material, expenses of management must go on, if the organ- isation of his establishment is to be kept up ; whilst wages form so large a proportion of the cost of the manufactured article, that they become naturally and immediately a direct object of attack. I do not mean that such an attack is the result of pre- arrangement, nor that the employers as a body always approve of it. Among the employers of England there are many who, with insufficient capital, are eager to avoid defeat, and to fight their way onward in the competitive battle on which they have entered. As a rule, these commence the attack on wages. It may be their position at the bankers compels them to realise, and they sell at reduced prices for this purpose, and having made the necessary sacrifice in the market, they seek to recoup themselves by reductions of wages. However few these may be, the better disposed, and better situated, must follow, for the purpose of meeting their competitions in the markets ; and hence a war between capital and labour, I think I may say not 32 INDUSTEIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. serviceable to the interests of the employers, but most decidedly- adverse to the interests of the workers. In this way, when the periodical decline sets in, a severe pressure on wages commences, which continues till the worst part of the depression lias passed. During this time the trades union is fighting to prevent a too rapid descent. "WTien a turn for the better takes place, the trades unionist fights to regain the ground he has lost, and this being an uphill fight is also a severe one ; and assuming that he gets back to his old position^ in amount of wages, all that has been lost, in both the retreat and advance, is gone for ever ; as there are no means of re- covering the cost of a strike or a lock-out, whichever way it may terminate. It has been pointed out many times that the working-men of the country might avoid this loss by a policy of non-resistance. True — but as this, all the world over, means a policy of ruin to those who adopt it, the working-men of the country, so long as they have in them the power to unite, are not likely to adopt it. No men know better than the trades unionists of the country, how much loss there is attending strikes. Mr. Henry Ashworth, who published in 1854 a full account of the Preston strike of the previous year, informs us that the cost of this local strike in loss of wages was 250,000Z., and in contributions spent in support of the people on strike 97,000^., in the whole, 347,000L If we add to this the priva- tions and suiferings in the homes of the people on strike, it will be easily understood with what terrible force such a calamity must come home to the minds of working-men ; and yet, singular to say, such circumstances, when they occur, instead of acting as deterrents, have precisely the opposite effect. Those who condemn strikes should understand that until some better plan can be discovered for protecting the interests of the workers, strikes, however objectionable, or however heavy in the losses they bring, must continue. It is right to say here that working-men generally are not favourable to strikes ; that, on the contrary, the leaders of trade societies exert themselves to prevent them, and would be very glad to see an end of them, could any alternative be found that on the whole would answer their purpose as welL WEDNESDAY MOENING. 33 Arbitration has been tried, but it does not appear to have grown into favour. It is slow, expensive, and at the same time very uncertain in its results. The sufficiency and correctness of the data are not always satisfactory ; besides which, foregone con- clusions in the minds of those who hear the evidence and give judgment, whether they operate or not, are frequently sus- pected as being in operation. Kegulation of wages by sliding scale has been for some time in operation in the coal trade, but it would be premature at present to pronounce any judgment either in its favour or against it. The arrangement in the coal trade is that wages shall rise and fall in given proportion to rise and fall of price in the coal market. It is not, however, in accordance with economic doctrine to regulate the price of one commodity by that of another ; and as labour and its market may at any time be different in its conditions from coal and the market in which it is sold, it does not appear reasonable that the price of the one should regulate the price of the other. An over-supply in the coal is now becoming something like a regular condition, in consequence of an enormously increased capacity of out-put. This may be regarded as meaning a permanent lowness of price, and by consequence a permanent lowness of wages, even though the demand in the labour market should be favourable to an advance of wages. In addition, it may be said that as the men by their union may be presumed to have some power over the price of labour, and never can have any in regard to the price of coal, it appears as if something was risked by the miners in making such an arrangement. In such a matter as this, however, it is dangerous to be too positive in urging an opinion strongly in opposition to any the men may themselves favour. I imagine that as a rule the men are the best judges, and if their experience of a sliding scale disposes them in its favour, the best way is to try the experiment fully, before any positive judgment is pronounced. Of one thing we may be certain. Up to the present time the considerations named here inevitably point to the necessity for very heavy deductions from whatever sum may be stated as the nominal wages of the workers of the country. The estimate o 34 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNEKATION CONFERENCE. can never be carried beyond a guess. Uncertainty of employ- ment, difference in wages, losses by strike, difference in skill, and many other considerations, place the wage-receiver far lower, as a partaker in the income of the country, than the statisticians place him. Much stress has been laid on the amount of money saved by the working people, as in savings banks, building societies, co-operative and other societies. Such investments are proofs of providence, but not so much of increased means. Money in a savings bank is not a permanent acquirement, and when such deposits are balanced with withdrawals this becomes plain enough. Money paid into building societies to a large extent belongs to other classes ; whilst the money saved in the co- operative societies of the kingdom is simply a saving on expenditure, the bulk of which is drawn out at intervals to meet the household requirements of the members. Indeed, were the whole amount which is not required to be held within call to meet contingent demands summed up, it would be found not more than sufficient to cover the indebtedness of the millions of Englishmen who live on the daily wages they earn. So that in fact the income of the working people may be re- garded as little, if any, more than sufficient to meet their wants, one year with another. In saying this I speak of the whole working class, commonly so called, but I wish to add that this class is made up of many classes. The highest skilled of these are comparatively well paid. They live in moderate comfort, and having the inclination, have got the means to save. Below these there are gradations run- ning into pauperism. When in full work they can with diffi- culty pay their way, but at their best times they have a crippling indebtedness to pay off, and as tliese times alternate they can never be truly regarded as in a condition to save. At the lowest and worst it is no exaggeration to say that comfort in life is impossible, and hope of independence by their own exertions a possibility so remote as to make despair and reck- lessness a hideous inheritance from generation to generation. I have examined a number of the figures given by Edward Young in his elaborate work, Labour in Europe and America^ WEDNESDAY MORNING. 35 and while I admit the industry displayed by Mr. Young to be highly creditable to him, I cannot admit the accuracy of his figures on this subject. Professor Leone Levi's figures appear to me of a like kind, estimated, not ascertained. ' I have,' says Professor Leone Levi, ' estimated upon a very good basis, though necessarily in a general manner, that the 12,000,000 persons at work annually earn about 418,000,000^.' A general estimate, however laboriously made, does not meet the requirements of the case ; and when we are afterwards told that the income of the middle and upper classes united amounts only to 349,000,000^., with something added for that portion under 100^. not assessed to the tax, we are puzzled how to recon- cile it with general estimates made by other experts. Two years after Professor Leone Levi's book containing the foregoing statement came out, Mr. Dudley Baxter published his work on the Taxation of the United Kingdom. He no doubt, also estimating on a ' good basis,' states the income of the ' manual labour class ' at 325,000,000^., or 93,000,000L less than Professor Leone Levi. He also gives the income of the upper and middle classes as 490,000,000Z. This is 141,000,000L more than Professor Leone Levi's estimate ; not allowing for the difference pointed out in consequence of the excluded 100^. not taxable. If, however, we turn to Mr. Mul- hall's Dictionary of Statistics, we find on page 246, that the middle and upper classes possessed an income for 1883 of 818,000,000^., a sum of 328,000,000L more than Mr. Dudley Baxter and 469,000,000Z. more than Professor Leone Levi. Of course allowance must be made for difference in time between the two first named gentlemen and Mr. Mulhall ; but the discrepancy between all three seems diflScult to explain. Professor Kolb, in referring to these returns, remarks, I think very truly, ' that all such estimates are as a matter of course very uncertain.' There is nothing more variable than the net income of working-men. The wage paid, the time worked, the numbers to be supported, vary so much and so continually, that how much passes into the houses of the working-men to meet, per head, the requirements of their families cannot be got at witli 36 INDUSTKIAL EEMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. anything approaching to certainty. Personally I have acted as arbitrator in a large number of important cases between the working-men and their employers, more particularly in the coal trade ; and I have found, without any apparent inclination to deceive, startling differences between the wages stated by the men as those received, and by the employers as those paid. It has struck me in thinking over this matter, that the men estimate their wages more as the average of their receipts over the year with all drawbacks of broken time and the lower as well as the higher wages counted in ; whilst the employers confine their calculations more to the higher earnings of the best workers, and take them after the manner of the statisticians, as though they were earned and received during the whole working period of the year. Besides, I have noticed, in looking over Mr. Young's large volume, that the informa- tion it contains comes from men whose' positions are more in alliance with capital than with labour. I cast no doubt on them on this account ; only my experience tells me that the unconscious leanings of position in such an inquiry as this count for much more than impartial outsiders are likely to imagine. Before leaving this part of my subject I ought to notice the attempts so persistently made of late years to blame the working people themselves as the chief authors of their own miseries. I have read Dr. Smiles' work on Thrift and other books of the same kind, written probably with good intention, but, in fact, very misleading ; and, I am disposed to think, rather mischievous in tendency. In one entitled Protection and Bad Times, published in 1879, I find this passage : — ' The coal-miner indeed will do all in his power to raise wages, but when he spends half of his week's earnings in champagne, he will never own that he is himself lowering his wages by one half.' To me this reads like an extravagance of statement meant to be regarded as ludicrous. I have had an intimate personal connexion with the working people of England for over half a century ; my intercourse with them has been constant and familiar. Their follies and extravagances are not un- known to me ; but I am bound to say that, making fair allow- WEDNESDAY MORNING. 37 ance for them as for the members of the other classes of society, it has always struck me that their virtues in self-denying economies far outweigh their follies and extravagances. I have also had special acquaintance with the miners of the kingdom for at least twenty years. I moved a good deal among them when wages were at the highest and their extravagance, I pre- sume, at the worst ; when, as is stated, they were spending their earnings on champagne, ducks and green peas out of season, and treating their bull-dogs to the best cuts from legs of mut- ton ; and I feel '^bound to say that I never saw any of these things, nor anything that indicated to me their existence even in the slightest degree. I have read of them in books and newspapers, and have heard the miners talk about them and laugh at them, but up to the present moment I have been compelled to regard them as simply untruthful. I am pre- pared to say that the poverty of the people is mainly due to the lowness of their wages, and the uncertainty of their employ- ment. When I say this I am not thinking of a model popula- tion free from every desire to touch what they cannot afford ; and who gather to themselves, and carefully hoard the smallest trifle they can lay their hands on, remembering that — ' A penny saved is twopence clear, A pin a clay, a groat a year.' I speak of the people as we have them and as we must deal with them ; the human creatures we meet in our streets, and who swarm in our mines, factories, and workshops ; whose wages are not sufficient ^to keep decent lives in their bodies ; who are everywhere discontented, not because others tell them they ought to be so, but because they feel it impossible to be content with painfully inequitable conditions of industrial and social life. What is said here does not apply to our better paid classes of artisans, but to the multitudes who swarm in all our large towns ; whose employment is uncertain, and whose wages are low ; and who in their feeblest and worst condition required in England, in the year 1883, no less a sum, as supplementary to wages, than 8,353, 292Z,, as against the sum of 690,000?., stated by Mr. Senior as the average in England of the three 246003 38 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. years ending- 1750. About the general condition of large numbers of the workers of Great Britain, whatever s^ipposititious figures may say, there can be no question. Nor can there be any doubt of the enormously increased wealth of the middle and higher classes. Mulhall tells us that in 1806 the income of G-reat Britain was 170,000,000L ; while in 1882 it was 1,247,000,000/. Kolb, quoting Leone Levi, states that our national property at the commencement of the present century was 1,800,000,000/., whilst in 1860 it had increased to 6,000,000,000/. When, however, Mr. Giffen published his Essays in Finance, in 1880, he computed the national wealth at 8,500,000,000/. The position is this : — The productive power of the country is in the hands of a small class. The distributive business is also in the hands of a class, and the profits realised in produc- tion and distribution belong to these. Wages can scarcely be regarded as more than an element of cost in production. The money carried into the houses of working-men to feed, clothe, and shelter the present and rising generations of workers is for the wants of the day, and adds little annually to the in- creasing capital of the country. It is really difficult to ask seriously whether the increase of the products of industry within the last hundred years has tended most to the benefit of capitalists and employers, or to the benefit of the working classes. Why lose time in calculating the pennies spent by working-men for food, drink, clothing, and rent, instead of going to the accumu- lated property of the country, and telling us how much of it belongs to the working classes as compared with what belongs to the middle and upper classes ? — their possessions in land and houses, in railways and our merchant navy, in British and Foreign loans and stocks ; in mines, factories, iron-works, and other tangible forms of national wealth. If the workers have been participators in any fair degree in the growth of the country's wealth, this would be a better way to get at the fact than through assumed detail in receipts and expenditure utterly impossible of proof.' • The Spectator, \n 1873 and in 1883, published two lists of all British fortunes exceeding a quarter of a million personalty, which had been trans- WEDNESDAY MORNING. 39 In the books and papers of statisticians I find a very re- markable improvement in the income and condition of the working classes. On a large general subject like this, including such varied multiplicity of detail (on which, among statisticians, there is no common agreement, beyond what there might be on any general question among any number of people), the safest way is to listen to the almost universal complaints made as to the poverty and suffering to be seen everywhere around us ; to note what our parliamentary inquiries on such questions as the dwellings of the poor bring out, to note also the great increase in the annual amount of our poor rates ; to comprehend, if pos- sible, the large amount of money given annually in private charity, and also that spent every year in support of benevolent institutions ; to consider, in addition, the deep discontent of the masses of our working people heard on every side ; and then ask ourselves whether the existence of such a state of things is not as startling as it is dangerous, in connexion with a growth of productive power in the country almost incompre- hensible by its vastness. Whatever the situation, as regards its anomalies and dangers, it is certain that the action of trade societies cannot fundamentally alter it. They can, at certain times, insist on adjustments more in accordance with equity than if all resistance to the action of employers were removed. The competitions of the markets, stimulated by our enormous and ever increasing power of supply in every kind of commodity, and the competitions stimulated among the workers by hunger during panics and crises, and strivings by employing com- petitors for cheapness, could not fail to produce a most dis- astrous condition of things for all who live by their labour. It would be a mistake in the general recognition of the evils of f erred by death within the preceding twenty years. The result was as follows : — Persons above a million sterling .... 23 Persons above half a million 109 Persons above quarter of a million . . . 356 If persons possessed of over a hundred thousand sterhng had been added, these numbers would have been vastly increased. Those who died worth even a hundred thousand before the middle of last century, could they be discovered, would not be many. 40 INDUSTKIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. the prevailing system of competitive wages to suppose that the working people had no conception of remedy but what lies in the action of the trades unions of the country. The co-operators, as a rule, belong to the working class, and in the co-operative body there are large numbers of trades unionists. The co-operative organisation includes about two and a half millions of the most thoughtful and provident of the British people. They have re- moved the disadvantages attending the ordinary distributive system by a plan of their own ; and this in a limited way is now placing in their hands something over two millions sterling a year as profit. They have made this profit because they have found the way to use their own capital, made fruitful by their own consumption, for the carrying on of their own distributive business. They entertain like views in reference to productive industry. They have, so far as they have gone, got possession of the implements of distribution ; and as they find their own capital, the profits of their business belong to them. They have carried this idea to a certain extent into the work of pro- duction, and with such results that they become day by day more convinced that, as time passes and experience increases, and a knowledge of the best principle on which to struggle for success becomes developed among the general body of their members, success will be found as practicable in production as in distribution. In concluding this paper, however, it may be said that our working people are not progressing in comfort and independence commensurately with the increase of the nation's productive powers, nor with its actual growth of wealth. No calculating power possessed by the statisticians will convince them of this. Their trades unions will therefore continue to be maintained and their co-operative experimentings will go forward. The atti- tude of these two great bodies is not one of defiance and aggres- sion, of violence and spoliation. They are men of peace seek- ing by their own efforts legally to bring a higher equity into the business of life. Some idea of the growth of wealth in the country may be formed by noting the increase of the nation's capitalised wealth during the present century, and the income annually derived from it, — fully confirmed by the evidences of WEDNESDAY MOENING. 41 wealth to be seen on all hands, as well as by the records of the Probate Court. The poverty in the country, as felt by the poorest of our working people, needs no proof; and it is our duty to recognise and remedy it, rather than to disguise or deny it. We should frankly acknowledge that as a nation we have not succeeded in distributing equitably the wealth that has come to us so abundantly, and that instead of seeking honestly to correct so dangerous a failure, we have sought to justify the blunders of ignorance by scientific pretences, and by charging the sufferers with causing their own miseries by wanton and reckless extravagance. It ought to be a matter of congratulation to those who possess and exercise power in these islands to know that the two great influencing organisations of workers — the trades unionists and co-operators — instead of being discontented conspirators, are acting openly in the light of day ; the one to peaceably secure some degree of equitable treatment for labour ; the other to so alter the relation of capital and labour as to permanently secure justice for all interests, and as a consequence the future peace and well-being of the country. Rates of Wages paid by the Dundee Harbour Trustees during the last Twenty-Jive years. By David Cunningham, M.Inst.C.E., F.S.S. The Table on following page showing the rates of wages paid to the workmen at Dundee Harbour from 1859 to 1884, indicates some interesting facts with reference to the condition of work- men in this part of the country during the last twenty-five years. The rates of wages stated may be regarded as a fair index of the local rates of wages in Dundee generally, the former being closely regulated by the latter. The rates are well authenticated, having been extracted from the wages books of the Dundee Harbour Trust for the months of June, July, and August of each specified year. From this table it may be observed that the wages of workmen generally have increased from 60 to 80 per cent, in 42 INDUSTEIAL KEMUNEKATION CONFERENCE. 2 u O hi CNCO*OOCOCDt*t'-0»0'^t*Cii-t Calcu- lated average rate per trades- man. • CXiC^Tt^ODOO<-l-t-^'*COCOOO> cs « -S «2 '«r-(>raiOO-«(i#a5(M-.ilTt<0000 •CO-<*'T)HCOCDCOt~'Nmco--lT-<,-l.-l ^rt.-I.Hi-lr-(r-(tH> -^t^t^. moo t^ooomoc«eo o5 t-H *-( fH i-H i-M IM (?1 C^ i-< w c^ c^ 1^1 o M dq-i cfi r-< CD r-t id f~t lO^^eO ICOM*C»i5 1 J? » ° a r-l (M rt rH i-H rH | | | (jq M CO W CO 05 a .oooa. 03 .-^oo ooooo -art T-l rH 1 .-Irt CO00CO(M« rH CO .-H CD M ^ rX III « 2 cot^eoonO50000OH-r-OOCOCDCOCOCDCOCD p,0.-g Pi a «.; CO mco 1 1 a d^g ■*.-.T)>t:--ico^iM^2 ^ ^ I: ...... og "«' 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 I 1 i t» t-^ t- S 53 ^ a o "St-TOb-t-t-PtCISrHO^t-t-COINCO •CD05MMGSOi-Ht^05t^t^05CO-^ *^i-Hr-IC^C^C^C^WCt-0^0 ^ c5 :; « a "*' 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1*°'' «; (M cs M -*cH-f9»:?»+«M'MH''*c-*i ^*c«* KH" •~-- CO 00 CO 003:>COCC«COXCO35Xa03i»OS 1 i ai^eoirat-cnr.s Per Week Hours of Work per Week Prices from Oreenwich Hos- pital Records Quantities which a Week's Net Eaniings would Purchase Lbs. Xos. Gross Piecers Net Flour per Sack Flesh per lb. Lbs. of Flour Lbs. of 1 Flesh 1 1804 1814 1833 12 9 18 13.1: 22i 1!)' ISO 200 180 200 180 200 60 07 C 72 00 .54 8 6.5 3 .?. d. 27 6 31 27 6 30 21 22 6 s. d. 32 6 36 6 44 6 60 33 8 42 9 74 74 74 74 69 69 s. d. 83 83 70 6 70 6 45 45 d. 6 to 7 6 to 7 8 8 6 6 117 124 175 239 210 267 62^ 73 1 67 ' 90 i 67 85 The sack of flour is taken at 280 lbs. The above is the resnlt of an average of several men's work at the different periods. As a comparison I give the average earnings of cotton- spinners at Manchester in 1876, from Bevan's Industrial Classes and Industrial Statistics. Year Wages Flour per Sack Flesh per Lb. Quantities which a Week's Net Earnings would Purchase 1876 .«. d. 28 4 s. d. 43 4 d. 10 Lbs. of Flour 182 Lbs. of Flesh 34 From this it is evident that not only M'ere a spinner's wages in 1833 higher than in 1876, but the purchasing power of his earnings was considerably in his favour also. We do not deem it necessary to multiply examples, but we will give below some additional evidence to show that the wages given for 1833 Nvere not the highest for that time. Mr. Cowell, in his explanator}^ preface to the Tables relative to Cotton and Silk Mills in the Lancashire District, gives the following example of the effect of increasing the size of the mules, as regards the cost of the yarn, and the earnings of the spinner. In the year 1833, in two fine spinning-mills at Manchester, while WEDNESDAY MORNING. 51 I was in the town, a spinner could produce sixteen pounds of yarn, of the fineness of 200 hanks to the pound, from mules of the productive fertility of 300 to 324, working them sixty-nine hours. These very mules were being replaced by others of double power while I was in Manchester. Let us examine the effect on the spinner's earnings. In the early part of last year he produced sixteen pounds of yarn of No. 200 from mules of the power of 300 to 324 spindles. Consulting the list of prices, I perceive that in May he was paid 3s. 6d. a pound. This gives 54s. for his gross receipts, out of which he had to pay (I will put the amount high) 13s. for assistants. This leaves him with 41s. earnings. His mules have their productive fertility doubled. They are converted into mules of the power of 648. He is now paid 2s. .5(7. a pound instead of 3s. 6d. But he produces thirty- two pounds of yarn of the fineness of 200 hanks to the pound in sixty -nine hours. His gross receipts are immediately raised to 77s. 4(7. I will now admit that he requires five assistants to help him, and avei'aging their cost at 5s. a piece, their labour will cost him 25s., and to avoid all cavil, I will add 2s. extra. Then, deducting 27s. from his gross earnings, there remains 50s. id. for his net wages for sixty-nine hours' work instead of 41s., an increase of more than 20 per cent., while the cost of the yarn is reduced 13d. per pound.' See Appendix, p. 61. If we will but contrast his earnings in 1876 — taking into account the productive power of the mule of the present day — we shall be better satisfied that the cotton-spinner in 1833 was considerably in advance of his fellow -worker at the present period. We have been enabled, from various sources, to com- pile the following comparisons of wages in different industries. Our authorities are Porter's Progress of the Nation, Mr. Jellinger Symonds' Arts and Artisans at Home and Abroad, published in 1839, J. Wade's History of the Middle and Working Classes, The Greenwich Hospital Records, and Bevan's Industrial Classes and Industrial Statistics. As will be seen from table on next page,^ the difference in the rates of wages is nothing like so marked as we have been given ' Porter's Progress of the Xatioti, sec. 2, oh. ii., pp. 234-5. - Since compiling this table of wages, there has been published in the Leeds Mercuru, for January 2, 1885, the following advertisement : — ' Stone- masons wanted. — Apply, J. Braymore, Cross Mill Street, Leeds. Wages 22^. per week.' This advertisement, as a sign of the times, needs no comment from me. But surely this benefactor of his species deserves to be immor- talised. K?. 52 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. Comparisons of Wages. 1832 .«. tl. 1871 1876 .V. (I. .1. (1. Cotton-spinners, Porter . . :?8 2 — Bevan 28 4 „ weavers, Symonds . . 14 6 — Woollen-spinners „ 21 Be van Ifl „ 28 „ weavers „ . . 14 13 „ 17 „ dressers, Wade . . 21 „ 20 10 „ 23 6 Flax, men, Porter .... Ifi 73 „ lil 9 — „ women „ 8 2f „ 1 3 — Coal-miners, Symonds (per day) .3 <) ■1 9 5 2 Ironfounders „ ... 29 „ 34 — Machine-makers „ ... 28 „ 30 — Carpenters, Greenwich . . . 32 — 39 8 „ country average . 22 6 — 27 Masons, Greenwicli .... 31 6 — 39 8 „ country average . . 24 9 — 29 Bricklayers, Greenwich . . . 28 6 — — „ country average . 24 — 29 to understand they were. And it seems to me the Grolden Age of labour within the last hundred years — taking into considera- tion the rates of wages, the continuity of employment, and the cost of the various necessaries of life — must be placed between the years 1832 and 1840 ; not only with regard to the money amount of wages and their purchasing power, but also with reference to the fact that a man was a man at that time, and had not become degraded to the office of a mere machine, to be turned off or on at the unreasoning caprice of an employer.' But we are not so much concerned with a retrospective re- view and comparison of the workman's status fifty years ago with that of our own time, as we are witli his present position and future prospects. Whatever has been his condition in past times, and there will always be differences of opinion so long ' In talking over this question with an old mason who has followed his trade for over fifty years, we were told that when the Leeds and Thirsk Railway was being made, mason's wages were 5s. per day, that at that time prime cuts of beef and mutton were but from 4i^. to 5)td. per lb., that fresh eggs were to be had from the farmers at the rate of 36 for a shilling, that house rents were not half the amount they are now, that coals were no more than \0x. per ton delivered, and that generally life, if somewhat rough, was certainly blest with more rude j)lcnty than obtains at the present day. The general verdict we have received from our old workmen friends has been that although wages were less fifty years since than now, the people, taken in the mass, were better off than they are at the present time. WEDNESDAY MORNING. 53 as there are two sides to the question, all must admit that there is room for improvement now in the social, and still more in the material, position of the labouring classes. Let us then endeavour to answer the question, What are the causes tliat induce the recurring periods of depression in trade and consequent scarcity of employment, that have become so marked a feature of our industrial history during the last few years ? First and foremost, we must place the inordinate greed and unscrupulousness of our capitalists and employers in the mad race for wealth. In the inflated time following the Franco- Grerman war, the means of production in Grreat Britain were increased to a degree that nothing but the certainty of con- tinuing to be the workshop of the world would have justified. Capital that, in the normal state of things, would have been applied to legitimate undertakings, was, in the vain hope of realising not far from cent, per cent., eagerly invested in what too often proved to be bogus enterprises, promoted by needy and unconscionable speculators. Money was wasted, credit was impaired, and in many instances financial ruin followed, to the detriment of sober and legitimate enterprise. True, the workman was not slow in his demand for a share in the un- usual prosperity. And we are of opinion that it is in a measure to the large advance in the wages of certain classes of labour obtained at this period, engendering as they did increased ex- penditure in baneful luxuries, we may ascribe some portion of the distress at present existing. But we can hardly blame the uneducated workman if he 'lost his head' at this juncture, when we remember his betters were little, if any, wiser in their day and generation. If mutual recrimination were likely to do any good, the British workman and his employer ought to be considerably benefited by the lecturing they have given each other on this point, as well as that they have undergone from every grade of social opinion during the last decade. The reasons generally given, and accepted as truisms, for depressions in trade are over production, foreign competition, and adverse seasons. Let us briefly examine these excuses for what we consider, at least as far as the first reason is concerned, has no need or business to exist. Over-production, indeed ! We 54 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. are extremely anxious to know what article of natural or arti- ficial production it is of which we have an overplus ? It cannot be wheat, for surely if that was so we should have no hungry, dinnerless children, half- famished for want of bread ; no homes stripped of their scant furniture, to win a short respite from the dread wolf of want ; no half-stifled cries of distress from starv- ing thousands, whose only hope and want is honest work and wages. It cannot be that we have too much clothing, for we are satisfied, if we will but look around, on every hand we shall find that there is ample need for all we have in store. Nor can we think tliat, for all the thousand pairs of shoes we have in excess of the demand, there are no feet the owners whereof would not be glad to wear them. We confess that this cry of over production is wholly beyond our comprehension. We can- not conceive that there can be over production in any com- modity until each and all, rich and poor, have had their wants supplied. Nor is it that we have not in our midst the where- withal to purchase these necessaries. For there is not only a plethora of all natural and manufactured commodities, but an ever-increasing amount — a positive glut — of wealth literally going a-begging, while honest working-men and women are actually perishing from lack of the common necessaries of life. Why is it, then, that in the face of this superabundance of the good things of this world we have depressions in trade, with their corresponding reverses in the condition of the working classes? We are of opinion the real reason is because the workman does not get an adequate or even a fair share of the profits of his labour. We submit that it is not possible for a man, whose every endeavour is to keep straight with the world, to contribute his share towards the general well-being, when the means at his command will barely admit of a sufficiency of food for himself and family. Even under the most favourable circumstances the average workman has, so to speak, his wages mortgaged, if not before they are earned, at least before they come into liis possession. It may be said this arises from want of forethought, from wantof economy : we unhesitatingly declare, in the vast majority of cases, it has its source in want of means. In support of our assertion that the workman is not paid a fair WEDNESDAY MOENING. 55 share of the proceeds of his industry, we give the following calculation of Mr. Gififen's : ' An approximate estimate has been made of the total savings of the working classes. Their amount has been carefully calculated from the statistics of Building Societies, Savings Banks, Co-operative Societies, Trades Unions, Friendly Societies, and Industrial and Provident Societies, to be 130,000,000L All this is small compared with the whole capital of the country, which in 1875 was estimated at 8,500,000,000Z. at least, with an annual increase of 235,000,000/., this latter sum far exceeding the total savings of the working classes.' ^ We have no wish to pose as prophets, but we are satisfied that the old doctrine that a man should rest content in the position in which it has pleased God to place him, must, if it has not already, go to the wall. The old political economy that decrees that labour is a commodity that must, equally with the products of labour, be ruled by supply and demand ; the old political economy that ordains that the wages of labour will, in the normal order of things, be determined by the terms on which the labourer will consent to produce, and will constantly tend to a bare level of subsistence — this doctrine, that has been a palliative to suave the consciences of our capitalists and em- ployers, must be abandoned as being out of date, and not in accordance with our new religion of humanity. Man's labour as the support of his life cannot, in common fairness, be placed on a par with a bale of cloth. If the man were as inert as the bale of cloth, if he had no requirements, if he did not need to live, to be clothed and housed, then their positions might be identical. But so long as the man has human aspirations, so long as he is able to discriminate between right and wrong, it is not only unjust, it is cruel, to place his labour as a com- modity in juxtaposition with that of an inanimate article, to be ruled by the inexorable law of supply and demand. Besides, man in his present position does not stand on equal ground with the capitalist in bargaining for employment ; he cannot, in the great majority of cases, ' take it or leave it,' as he is told to do. No ; the work must be his at one price or another, and * Giffen's Essays on Finance, pp. 173-5. The italics are mine 56 INDUSTEIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. often, too often, the man who has the giant's power uses it as a p'iant. With regard to foreign competition, we have long been of opinion that we could not continue supplying our foreign com- petitors with machines to make machinery, for the production of all manner of goods, and still go on supplying them with our finished products as well. We cannot find fault with our engi- neers and machinists for their action in tliis matter. For, if we have had some importations of goods that we might have made for ourselves, we should remember that we in return have sup- plied our foreign customers with goods that, had they been selfishly inclined, they would have manufactured for themselves. And further, we are of opinion that, unless we can find a market where the buyers are composed wholly of the capitalist class and its dependents — that is, a community who are not producers in any sense of the word, but only consumers — this bugbear of foreign competition must be considered as a constant factor in our trade calculations, which it will be well to look upon and combat in a spirit of generous emulation rather than of a jealous over-reaching rivalry in trade. Adverse seasons have certainly during the course of the last few years dealt a heavy blow at our agricultural interests, and through them at our home trade — a trade which is admitted to be our surest bulwark against a deficiency of labour, a trade that would, if the profits of our industries were more justly- distributed, go a long way towards providing our teeming millions with the work and wages for want of which they starve. There only remains now for us to pass in rapid review the different remedies that have been proposed for the social and material amelioration of the condition of the poorer classes, Mr. George, whose book. Progress and Poverty, has done more than aught besides towards making this a burning question, would confiscate — utterly unconscious of doing wrong — the whole land of the country, and place it under State ownership and management. The leading assumption that permeates Mr. George's book, and which he lias laboured with intense earnestness to demonstrate and substantiate, is that the in- WEDNESDAY MOENING. 57 stitution of private property in land is the immediate cause of the unequal distribution of wealth and privilege, and obviously of the consequent vice and misery, which is at once the greatest curse and menace of our nineteenth century civilisation. To remedy this injustice he boldly and unhesitatingly declares we must make land common property. This wholesale appro- priation he would make without compensation or regard to interests or rights, however acquired by the present landowners. He argues that we must give to man the unrestricted liberty to develop to its fullest power the natural resources of the land — that is, that the land shall be so cultivated as to contribute its full quota to the requirements of the whole community. His particular belief is, give but man these opportunities — and he has been deprived of them by the institution of private property in land — and the poverty that pervades all societies that have attained a superior degree of civilisation will disappear, that want or the fear of want will be extirpated, that the Promised Land flowing with milk and honey will be within measurable distance of being reached, and that the beatification of man's condition will cease to be an ignis fatuus, ever alluring philosophers and philanthropists into impracticable fields of thought, but an established fact. But whatever possibilities there may be in Mr. Greorge's scheme of land nationalisation, we cannot forget that it is based on injustice. Nor does the fact of a robbery being committed eight centuries ago palliate in our eyes the perpetration of further wrong-doing ; for, however wrong the institution of private property in land may have been in its original inception, it would, after the lapse of centuries of undisputed possession, be a ' bold, bare, enormous wrong' to deprive the vast majority of the present holders of their vested or pm'chased interests in the land, whether they are the humble possessors of a single house plot, or patriarchal lords who own the broad acres of a shire. Mr. Wallace's plan is less open to objection, inasmuch as he recognises the right of the landowners to compensation. But any scheme of land nation- alisation seems to me to depend upon the issue of this question for its success. Will the State be likely to make a better or more considerate landlord than the present owners ? We 58 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. submit that it would not, and for the following reasons r unless the State has it in its power to abolish competition rents, and this in justice to the very numerous class who are not tillers of the soil or holders of ground rents it should not have, where would be the advantage in paying a competition rent to the State over that of paying it to a private owner ?' Then, again, supposing the State should fix upon what would be considered a fair rent, who is to decide from among the host of applicants which competitor shall have the land at this fixed value ? It seems to me that any scheme of land nationalisation is open to this fatal objection ; we should but throw wide open the door to a gigantic and most pernicious system of favouritism and patronage, if not of underhand bribery. Besides, all our landlords are not bad alike, and under the present system there has been occasional aid rendered, not in the pauperising form of a dole given on the rent day, but real help towards making the most of the productive power of the land which the State, as a landlord, in common fairness to the community at large, must have withheld. With reference to co-operative production, we cannot see any valid reason why our co-operative distributive societies with their large capitals should be unable to carry out productive co-operation to success. Yet such would seem to be the case ; for among many concerns started under their auspices, most of them — at least in this part of the country — have come to grief. We understand the reason generally given for this failure is that co-operative societies outside do not do business with and support their efforts. This would seem to indicate that there is a screw loose somewhere ; for unless co-operative, or any other form of industrial production, can compete with private enterprise in the open market, there is nothing so certain but that in the end it must succumb to this superior force. Industrial partnership is another form of amalgamation of the interests of capital and labour that, we are grieved to chronicle, has not been crowned with the success it deserves. The fact is the workman has not become educated so far as to see that under this form of production his and his employer's interests are identical. Profit-sharing without loss- sharing would seem to imply a greater regard for an employer's WEDNESDAY MOENING. 59 interests than most employes can be credited with. Emigra- tion, ' the policy of despair,' we cannot consider a true remedy j for, in the majority of cases, the people who of their own free will expatriate themselves are the people we should keep at home — men with brains, energy, and often some little capital, who, had they a fair field for their qualifications, would never quit their native land. In drawing our observations towards a close, we will again urge on capitalists and employers to give their workpeople a more commensurate share in the profits of their labour. That they can do this, and still retain a living profit, we will try to illustrate from our own business. We will take the ease of an employer in the building trade. We will suppose him to be in a large way of business, employing a hundred hands. He has his workshop fitted up with the most modern appliances for cheapening production, both in the saving of material and labour. He pays, or should pay, his workmen the standard wages of their calling, being neither more grasping nor avaricious than his fellows, but known among men as a straightforward and honourable man. Well, you may ask, what fault have we to find with this employer as a man or as a citizen ? We must answer none whatever. But let us look a little further. As we have said, he pays the regular wages of his business ; the workman's money is always ready and paid at the end of the week. He does not grind, or urge forward as with a goad, the worker. But he does appropriate to himself that for which he has not laboured in any sense of the word, that which is not his even by the political economist's law of interest. He bargains with his workmen for a standard payment of, we will say, 7^d. per hour, but the price he will charge and receive from the people for whom he has work in hand will be 9d. per hour, so that for every workman in his employ — the working hours being fifty per week — he will receive a profit on their labour of 6s. '6d. per week, or a total of 37/. 10s. Out of this sum we will suppose he has to pay a manager 31. per week, 21. 10s. for a foreman, ll. 5s. for a time and storekeeper, and 21. for a cashier. These men will manage the business in all its detail, from buying the raw 60 IIsDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. material to getting in the money for the finished work, so that this payment of 8^. 15s. for management and superintendence is absolutely the only drawback from the sum he will be paid for the use of his money, except rent, rates, and taxes, and an allowance for depreciation in his machinery and buildings. If we deduct the 8l. 15s. from the 371. 10s. we have 28^. 15s. left ; from this, as a very liberal estimate, we will allow the 81. 15s. for rent, &c., leaving 201. per week as interest for the capital invested in the business. In addition to this sum the capitalist will have a percentage of profit on the raw material, the timber, stone, &c., used in his business, which would help considerably to pay a fair interest on his capital, if it did not suffice entirely. As we have shown, this capitalist or employer, who like the lilies of the field ' toils not, neither does he spin,' has an income of IjOOOL per year from his business, or more correctly for the use of his capital. We ask, in the name of our common humanity, if it is not possible to pay better wages to workmen in such an instance as this ? And this is, be it remembered, no exceptional case, requiring a large amount of capital for the working of the business, as moneys are paid at stated conditions of progress of the work, so that the capital may be turned over several times in the course of the year. We confess that we have not much hope of so great a change in the moral nature of our employers as a fairer division of profits would render necessary; but, if it does not come in our generation, what about our children, if this gospel of appropriation is to con- tinue ? We are educating them — and this education must go on, technical as well as scholastic — to occupy higher spheres of usefulness, mentally and socially, than we ourselves are fitted for. What is to be the outcome of it all ? Is it to be a life of discontent, a continual struggle for a bare subsistence, with the wolf of want for ever prowling around their door — a wearying, wasting life of toil and care, with little more inspiriting to look forward to than the workhouse as its goal ? Far better will it be for us, as a nation, if we had ' a mill-stone tied about our neck, and were cast into the depths of the sea,' than that this should be so ! For we ought not to forget this truism, that to keep men poor, degraded, and contented, we must keep them WEDNESDAY MORNING. 61 brutish, sotted, and ignorant ; and that, moreover, as surely as education — intellectual development — is stimulated and tem- perance principles spread over the land, so surely are we paving the way for a further grand march in our civilisation, and, as we would fondly hope and believe, in our material progression. Then let us recognise and deal honestly, faithfully, and man- fully with this great power, for good or evil, that we are rais- ing in our midst. For, whatever else the future may have in store for us, we may depend upon this, that the time is coming, and may not be far distant, when Jack will have found out he is as good as his master, that he is made of the same flesh and blood and in the same image, and with a lineage in as direct a line from the common Father of us all. APPENDIX. "VVe are enabled through the coiui^esy of Miss A. Amy Bulley, of Manchester, to supplement our list of wages in the cotton manufac- ture, with the follomng complete and reliable statement of the actual earnings, compiled from the wages book, of cotton operatives em- ployed in an Oldham spinning and weaving mill, in 1884 : — Average Eaenixgs for 56i^ Hours of Mill Hands, Exgaged ix the Manufacture op Cotton. Spinning. Cotton miser Fly gatherer . Lap tenter Card-room jobbers Card-room hands (females) Spinner or Minder . Big piecer Middle piecer .... Little piecer Half-timers (under 13 years of age) Twiner (man) .... Big piecer for Twiner Little „ „ . . . Winders . Warpers . 16 1 14 15 11 6 8 2 3 1 1 14 6 14 9 14 6 19 ol Remarks. Men employed in the card and scutching rooms, paid weekly wages, not piece work. Piece work. Piece work. Young men and boys employed by the Minder and paid by him. Piece work. Young women em- ployed by Twiner. Females. Piece work. 62 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. Weavers — 2 narrow looms „ i „ „ 2 wide looms (16/8) 2 „ (18/8) Wearing. £ .V. I?. Ueiiiarks. 12 9 Young girls. 18 Women. 1 3 Men. 14 ) Women, all weavers 16 Of paid piece work. ( Men i)ai(l a per cent- Loom jobbers or overlookers . . .230 \ age on the weavers' ( earnings. The avcraf/c earnings of a woman employed at weaving will be about 17s. per week. Young girls, wlio liave just learned their trade, are allowed only tivo looms, and will earn 13s. to lis. per week. Our weaving is entirely con- lined to cotton velvets ; very few men are eniplo3'^ed except as overlookers. In the Glossop district (Derbyshire), weavers weaving printing cloth have four looms each, and earn 18s. per week. Mr. F. Harrison stated that the Committee deeply regi^etted that Mr. Robert Giffen's official duties had prevented him from complet inw a paper which he was preparing on the subject now before the Conference, The paper Mr. Giffen had in hand would go back to a farther period, and would complete his well-known essay on Earnings and Wages, already published for the Statistical Society. Mr. Giffen had expressed his sincere hopes for the success of the Conference, which only the pressure of official duties prevented him from attending. Discussion. Mr. Brevitt (Ironfounders) said that the increase of the products of industry had on the whole tended to the benefit of the working classes, he would not dispute, nor would he attempt to prove it; though no doubt others would do both. But he ventured to assert that the non- workers had, up to the present hour, managed to use the worker and his work as the means and instruments by which they had seized and appropriated most of the good things of life, securing a vastly preponderating shai'e of the beneficial results of the modem development of all kinds of industrial productions, and the control of the mechanical agencies which alone had made such development possible. If the present inquiry were rigidly confined to two types of our social system, namely, to the caj)italist who em- ploys labour, and to the employe or wage leceiver, then it would be a mere farce, and a shirking of some of the most impoi-tant issues involved. The real form of tlie question ought to be. Do the people, the WEDNESDAY MOENING. 63 toilers, the millions who, from youth to old age, are engaged in labour obtain anything like an equitable share of the products of their toil, or of those matei'ial comforts and social enjoyments which render life tolerable, a blessing and not a curse 1 To such a question there •could, in his opinion, be but one answer — an emphatic negative. If by the word ' capitalist ' he might be allowed to vniderstand any in- dividual who, by some means, has accumulated wealth, or property productive of wealth, or who holds some office or dignity, from which he derives wealth, then he fearlessly affirmed that capitalists had grasped, in a most selfish and unscrupulous manner, nearly every- thing they could lay their hands on : the land, and all the good things on its surface, and even the fishes which abound in its rivers and streams. Nearly all the country was claimed by such men ; from royalty, with its numerous palaces, large estates, parks, deer forests, and immense revenues — all derived, directly or indirectly, from industry, down to the rapacious lease-granting ground-landlord who, in many cases, drew immense wealth from property paid for by others, and placed on land, which either he or his ancestors obtained by very questionable means. Throughout the land, from north to south, what did we find 1 That wealth, or capital, had the best of it everywhere. We saw magnificent palaces, baronial halls, castles, lordly mansions, and beautiful villas, situated in the most desirable spots, surrounded by all that is lovely, furnished with every luxury, replete with every comfort. And who owned them all 1 Men who did no work, men who scorned the worker, men who gloried in the fact that neither they nor their ancestors ever worked, and who would reckon themselves degraded and punished if they had to work. And where should we find the workers 1 Mostly in the slums of cities and towns, or else in miserable cottages poorly and scantily furnished living in the midst of squalor, where culture was impossible and decency difficult. There, with their families, they subsisted, or existed on a pittance just sufficient to preserve life, 'as in a cell, for their tyrant's use to dwell.' Then, look at the Established Church, with its lordly prelates and proud dignitaries, living in palaces and fine houses, and enjoying princely incomes; look at its parsons, with their goodly benefices, ever hand in hand Avith princes, lords, and squires, in upholding hoary and venerable iniquities, and in keeping down very low the labourer upon whose toil they fatten. How nicely these disciples of One who said, 'Blessed are the poor,' manage to get possession of far more than a fair or honest share in the distribtition of wealth, and of those productions of industry, in the originating of which they had no part, and to which they never contribtited anything ! Those legalised iniquities, the tithes. 64 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. were ultimately extracted fi-om toil ; for he who paid the impost^ whether landlord, tenant-farmer, or house-owner, would seek to in- demnify himself by extorting inci'eased payments from those who held projierty under him, and by decreasing the wages of those who worked for him. So we got, as the result, increased rents and diminished wages, in order that men who neither toil nor spin, might be well fed, clad, and housed, although they would not work. Then, we had the army, the fighting class, with its field-marshals, generals, colonels, and others, extorting millions sterling from the taxpayers, and sapping the industry of the country. These, he classed as capitalists, non-producers, who got hold of, and lived luxuriously upon, money wrested from the earnings and savings of the toilers. These royal pensioners, scions of the aristocracy, and hangers-on of the nobility — men who, perhaps, more than any others, despise and depi-eciate labour, managed to squeeze out of the indus- try which they scorned a large amount of the wealth which would, if devoted to peaceful pui-suits and social improvements, render the condition of the people immeasurably better than what it now was, and Avould alter the face of the whole country. And they, of the rank and file, the hired bravos who had, perhaps, entered the army because they could not procure the means of living otherwise — these got none of the honours or the emoluments, but their stipend, like that of labour, was plenty of wox-k and scant reward. Mr. F. G. P. Neison rose to a point of order. Mr. Brevitt, whose name was not down for a paper, was reading from manuscript. This practice was not in accordance with the rule regulating dis- cussion. The Chairman : The speaker is not personally to blame for reading his remarks, because Mr, Brevitt asked me, as he ascended the plat- form, whether he might refer to his notes ; and I said he might. But. of course, the meeting must understand that Mr. Brevitt is not one of those who are reading papers for discussion, and that he is only supposed to be taking part in debate. Therefore, perhaps, it might be desirable that he should not read, as he is doing, from a Avritten paper. I would, however, take this opportunity of asking Mr, Brevitt to avoid making anything that may look like attacks upon particular classes. I did not like to stop him in the first of these allusions, but there were a few remarks fell from him which would appear to be of a character calculated to give pain to various services, to members of a particular Church, and to those who are employed in different departments by the State, I think it is the feeling of the Conference that observations of that nature had better be avoided. I should, of course, stop from the chair anything like WEDNESDAY MOKNING. 65 distinctly political allusions, but it would be also desirable that we should avoid, as far as possible, allusions which may be painful to members of particular classes as individuals. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Brevitt, in resuming, obtained the chairman's permission to read the remainder of his remarks. He said : A man in the ranks of labour would, by his industry and thrift, save a few pounds ; he lived among his comrades in the towns where his work was ; he had a comfortable home -without extravagance or luxury ; and was a ■good specimen of the artisan ; determined to speculate with his money, he became in a small way an employer, he succeeded, accu- mulated more money, in fact, became a capitalist. In the majority of instances, capital, and the power attending it, demoralised the man ; he then began to aim, not at a moderate competency, but to become rich, to get as much wealth as he could ; he left his former comrades behind, and got into the suburbs; his comfortable home became dis- tasteful to him ; he must needs have luxury, servants, a horse and carriage ; his appetite grew by what it fed on ; moral and political justice were ignored ; probably he ground as much work as he could out of those whom he employed ; and, while they must toil on through the years and live amidst the smoke and squalor of cities, he got into the outskirts, among the fields, and into the purer air. If still successful, he aped the manners of those who were higher in the social scale; he was now a gentleman, and looked down with something like contempt on the artisan and labourer, whose toil had made him rich. In due time he died and left his wealth to his children. All this time his life and conduct had been strictly honest and legal. But had this man who, by means of the sweat and toil of others, had converted his few pounds into thousands, his com- jjaratively humble home into a luxurious one, and a life of toil into one of ease and idleness — had he received no more, and appropriated no more of the products of industry than justice, equity, humanity, and the law of love sanctioned 1 If a Christian, had lie practised those precepts of self-denial, self-sacrifice; and devotion to humanity, which the Founder of his religion inculcated 1 Who would dare to say he had 1 Had not his whole life been selfish, unchristian, and self-seeking ? This self-love, this lust after wealth, luxury, pomp, parade, power, and indolence; this gospel of hedonism, which so crushed, stifled, and nulUfied the gospel of labour, simplicity, self- denial, and love of humanity, was more than anything else account- able for the gross and monstrous inequality, injustice, and inhumanity which pervaded and permeated the whole social and political life of Europe and America. He, for one, hailed with hope and delight the efforts of the men who would restore the land to the people, and F OG INDUSTRIAL RExMUNERATION CONFERENCE. abolish the proud and arrogant caste who would hold the soil for their own exclusive use and emolument. He hoped that in the not very distant future, when Britain's sons and daughters were enfran- chised and educated, we should see a noble peasant proprietary built up and gaining an honourable livelihood by cultivating the land. Let all assist and fui'ther the efforts of the men who, by trades unions, co-operation, profit-sharing, temperance societies, and other metbods, would equalise, or, at any rate, more justly apportion the distribution of wealth. Let them cordially greet all such eflbrts ; they were all needed, and all deserved hearty support. Mr. B. Jones (Co-operative Wholesale Society) said he would try to keep to the chairman's ruling, and to say nothing, if he could possibly help it, which might be painful to the feelings of the members of any class ; but, if he should unfortunately transgress, he hoped it would be put down to the lack of education to which most working men at the present time were subject. It Avas, however, only fair to say that they were so much accustomed to have hard words said to them in their daily employment that the meaning and force of strong language seemed to be lost sight of; whereas men unaccustomed to hard words were apt to feel them with greater severity than working- men who were so accustomed to language of that kind. What Mr. Lloyd Jones had said was quite true, that it was very difficult, if not impossible, to accumulate the data necessary to arrive at an exact estimate of the amount received by the different classes, of the benefits which the whole country had received, during the last 100 years from improved inventions and so on. But they could arrive at an estimate sufiiciently near to enable them to decide, with something- like unanimity, the question as to which class had received the greatest benefits from the machinery and the inventions of the last fifty years or 100 yeais. Mr. Giffen, in his Progress of the Workimj Classes, had pointed out that the income assessed for taxation amounted to 600,000,000/. a year. The same gentleman, in another work, had, he believed, estimated the income of the wealthy classes, or those sulyect to the income tax, which escaped taxation, as equal to another 25 per cent., which would bring the total to 750,000,000/. If to that were added the immense personal property, the immense wealth which paid no rates or taxes whatever, though it ought to do as much as other personal property, no doubt the grand total would be between 800,000,000/. and 900,000,000/. a year, representing the annual income of the wealthy or income-tax paying population. Looking on the other side, the estimate of income of the working classes was usually given at between 400,000,000/. and 500,000,000/. ; but anyone capable of adding two and two together would, on WEDNESDAY MOENING. 67 examining these figures, see the utter fallacy buried beneath them. It must also be I'emembered that the larger income is divided among a few thousands, while the smaller income is divided among millions. Mr. Giffen had quoted, as a substantial proof of the correctness of his estimate, the wages of seamen in the year 1850, and their wages at the present time. He had himself had the curiosity to look at the Blue-book ; of course, working men were not supposed to look into such things, but they now were getting into the habit of doing so. And what did he find there t He found that Mr. Gifien, for the year 1850, gave the wages of able seamen in sailing vessels, and in 1882 or 1883 the wages of able seamen in steam vessels, instead of comparing the wages of able seamen in sailing vessels in 1882 and 1883 with the wages of able seamen in sailing vessels in 1850. He said nothing at all about these sailing vessel rates of 1882 or 1883, but ought to have done, because the employment on steam and on sailing vessels is a distinct class of occupation, and one ought not to be confounded with the other. If Mr. Gifien had taken the wages of able seamen in sailing vessels in one year and compared them with able seamen in sailing vessels in the other year, he would have found the inci'ease of income reduced by 50 per cent. Not only would that be so, but another fact cornea out most clearly : whereas in 1850, 103,913 men were employed in sailing vessels, in 1883, 58,000 — or only one half — were employed in the same class of vessels. Now, at once some one would say that was owing to the circumstance that so many steamers were runnino-. Nothing of the kind; for the tonnage of sailing vessels in 1883 was slightly in excess of the tonnage of the same class of vessels in 1854. So they saw that, for an increase in wages of something like 15 or 20 per cent, working men had to do very nearly double the labour. Mr. Hey, of the Ironfounders, had been at the trouble of taking from the books of that Association the average wages from the year 1855 to the present time, and had entered into careful details as to deduc- tions made for holidays, short time, sickness, and so on. After these deductions, Mr. Hey had ascertained that for the ten years, 1855-65, the net wages of ironfounders throughout the kingdom were 11. As. 6d. per week; for the ten years, 1865-75, 11. 5s. 6d. ; and for the ten years, 1875-85, 11. 5s. 5^d. Where, then, was the increase of wages, which Mr. Gifien had estimated 1 Look at the matter in this way : the progress of industry, causing the development of large businesses, had resulted in arrangements which enabled a certain portion of the community to do far less drudgery and far less work, while they realised greater incomes. On the other hand, the working classes, for instance, weavers — my mother was a weaver, and I have heard her say p 3 68 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. that weavers, before the passing of the Factory (10 hours) Act, used to work at a certain rate of speed ; but on the introduction of the ten hours system, they had to turn out more work in a given time than they did before that Act came into operation. From these facts there was conchisive proof that the capitalist classes had less work and got more money, while the Avorking classes had more work and got a little more pay, but not in proportion to the extra work they were now called upon to do. Mr. W. Saunders (English Land Restoration League), having explained that he had no intention of saying a word, at that moment, on behalf of the League from which he was a delegate, ■stated that he wished to refer to the practical suggestions made by Sir Thomas Brassey in liis excellent paper. The first was, that working-men must look to capitalists to give them employment, and that, perhaps, the best mode which capitalists could adopt for ■stimulating employment would be in building houses for the people. Now, they might assume that both labour and capital were directed by a reasonable amount of common sense, and that a capi- talist would employ his capital, and a labourer would employ his talent, if he had got the chance of doing so, with a prospect of profit. "Wliat was it then that prevented the employment of capital and of labour in the manner indicated by Sir Thomas Brassey 1 In reference to that question he would mention two facts. In his own neigh- bourhood a man wanted to build a house and fixed his mind upon a piece of ground which, at present, was paying hardly anything to the landowner. The landowner would not allow him to build that house unless he paid at least one-third of the value of the house, or gave an equivalent in ground rent. If he wanted to build a house worth 2,000^. he could not do it unless he paid the landowner 1,000Z. for that which was not now bringing 21. a year. In the country it was ■exactly the same. A gentleman desirous of building a house in the middle of the country, 100 miles from London, asked a landlord on what terms he would sell him a field — a small field which was un- occupied at the time, and which has been unoccupied ever since ; and the reply of the landlord was : ' If you offered me 1,000^. for that field, more than it is worth, I would not take the trouble to complicate and bother my settlement with the transaction.' In both cases, therefore, labour was restricted by the action thus described. Instead of point- ing to various schemes which might be complicated and difficult, and instead of referring the labourer to the capitalist, and the capitalist to the labourer, and talking about lower wages, what was required in order to improve the condition of the labouier and of the artisan was simply to remove the bands which now repressed industry. WEDNESDAY MOENING. 69 Mr. Burns (Social Democratic Federation) said they had been warned by the chau-man to address their remarks to the audience in language as polite as it was possible for working-men to vise. Now, considering that working-men had not much time to study politeness, that the class to which he himself belonged had tinfortunately to get up at half-past four in the morning and to work hard all day for scanty wages, much politeness could not be expected from them. As one who had travelled throughout Great Britain, and who knew, as an engineer, the condition of his fellow- workmen, he considered that Mr. D. Cunningham, in his paper, had unjustly taken the employes of the Dundee Harbour Board as a standard of the wages of the Scotch people in that particular district. The employes of Boards of Con- servancy, and of Harbour Trust Boards and Corporation Boards generally, there received, on an average, from is. to 8s. and 9;?. a week more than the average rate of wage paid at competition shoi>s in the same district ; that was, the majority of men who had worked for Corporation Boards and private firms. Mr. D. Cunningham had said that between 1859 and 1884 there had been an increase of workmen's wages from 60 to 80 per cent. Viewed from a workman's position, that was a marvellous statement to make : it was one which he could in no sense corroborate. Mr. D. Cunningham ought not to forget the important fact that, although nominally wages had increased, yet the purchasing power of the money had decreased amazingly in the period to which reference had been made. The writer of the same paper had asserted that the pi'ices of commodities, such as tea, sugar, soap, treacle, syrup, and marmalade averaged now only half the prices of 1859. But a working-man did nob live on tea, sugar, soap, treacle, syrup and marmalade (laughter). There were other commodities which entered into a working-man's diet besides such things as marmalade, sugar, and syrup. Mr. D. Cunningham told them that the price of meat to-day, compared with 1859, was not much greater. As one compelled by the general low wages he received from the capitalist to be more of a vegetarian than he liked, he would tell Mr. D. Cvinningham that the meat was now extravagantly dear, the prices were prohibitive to men, especially in the district mentioned in the paper, Dundee, where the average rate of wages of members of the Amalgamated Society of Engineers, when they happened to be in work, was from 26^. to 28s. a week. And yet, in the face of that fact, the writer of the paper had told the Conference that the average rate of wages was between 29s. and 30s. per week ! Taking into consideration the circumstance that, as Dundee, being a port, was dependent upon the arrival of shipping, they would at once see that occupation there was precarious, and they 70 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. would not be sui'prised to hear that the amount of earnings per head, or per family, was at least 50 per cent, lower than the estimate of Mr. D. Cunningham. The average wages received by members of the Society of Amalgamated Engineers were 38s. a week in London, and in other parts from 26s. to 3Qs. Throughout the whole country, the average wages of men in work, in precarious times like these, would not be more than 29s. a week. Mr. D. Cunningham had told them that superior articles of consumption, such as eggs and meat of home growth, had risen considerably in price, but their place had been largely occupied by impoi'ted foods in tins. The working classes had been told by many gentlemen that one of the causes of the bad condition they were in was that they were thriftless and dissolute. Even upon the wages estimated by Mr. D. Cunningham, it was not possible for the father of a family of four or five to be thrifty. Assuming, for the moment, that Mr. D. Cunningham's figures were not exaggerated — and he for one did not believe they were exaggerated intentionally — it was not evidence of well-being and material pro- sperity for a man to receive, on the average, from 28s. to 31s. a week ; because that was not an extraordinarily large sum out of which to keep a family of two or three children, and with an ex- orbitant house-rent to pay. When he found that the actual amount received by employes of the Dundee Harbour Board, distributed over skilled and unskilled workmen, was not more than from 18s. to 19s., he felt that Mr. D. Cunningham's figures must be accepted with a very large grain of salt. With regard to the condition of the people and theii' remuneration, the present period was equal in its intensity and bitterness to the period of 1879, so graphically described by Sir Thomas Brassey, some five years ago, in The Nineteenth Centuri/. Had Sir Thomas Brassey read over his article, published in 1879, it might have saved him the ti'ouble of writing another on the same question. With regard to the purchasing power of money, meat was at least 50 per cent, deai'er than it was twenty-five years ago. It was, however, true that boots were cheaper. It used to be said, * There is nothing like leather ' ; but the shoemaker of the present day appeared to have reversed that saying by substituting another, ' There is nothing like biown paper'; and he gave them plenty of it. What was said of boots applied to clothing, such as moleskins and corduroys, which, although decreased 25 per cent, in piice, had diminished 125 per cent, in quality. In fact, the clothes sold to the M^orking classes .at the shoddy shops were similar to the goods supplied to the natives on the banks of the Niger and the Congo, where he had been. He remembered seeing a native on the banks of the Niger washing some of his clothes. They had recently been WEDNESDAY MOENING. 71 ibi'ought from England, and by the time he had rinsed the water, blue, and size out of them, there was very Httle left for him to wear (lavighter). Such statements as those made in Mr. D. Cunningham's paper must be seriously met by the artisans to whom they were addressed, and this Conference did not in any sense represent a number of persons who were affected by the question (hear, hear). It was a question which would have to be threshed out by the working classes, and he was sorry that Mi\ D. Cunningham had not gone to better authorities for his figures, and given better data than he had in his paper. Those figures and data were inaccurate and misleading, and he questioned them, as a reformer, as a sober man, as a Malthu- sian, and more of a vegetarian than he should be. There were many of his fellow-men who would question such statements ; he referred to men who practised the virtues of temperance, who neither di-ank, nor smoked, nor chewed (laughter). Ai-tisans could not live on the miserable wages received by agricultural labourers, ship riveters, and sailors (applause). The Chairman : At the beginning of his remarks, Mr. Burns alluded to my ruling as to what he called politeness. I think the Conference will see that there is very great distinction between the character of the observations which have fallen from Mr. Burns, which were entirely pertinent, and to the point, and remarks such as those to which I alluded. The latter were in the nature of com- ment upon the Church and upon the Army, which are matters entirely outside, I think, the pi-oceedings of this Conference. One of the speakers referred to those who, not belonging to the labouring • classes, were unused to hard words; but that is a remark which can- not apply to politicians. It was not in consequence of any general dislike of hard words that I spoke on the matter, but from a desire that our pi-oceedings should be confined strictly to the great question before us. (Applause.) Mr. James Aitkin (Greenock Chamber of Commerce) said that he observed in some of the papers statements pvit forth that pointed in the very opposite direction to what experience teaches. Mr. Hutchinson (page 49) set forth that the increase of the products of industry had been of such benefit to the working-man as to bring these products within the purchasing power of himself and family. It must be admitted that great benefits had been derived from the increase of the products of industry of late years ; still these benefits had been altogether in favour of the capitalists, the employers, and but a very small section of the working population. That section con- sisted of those who were in constant employment and highly paid ; and those who were only occasionally employed at low wages derived 72 INDUSTraAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. no benefit but ratlier injury. AVe need not go back one hundred' years in search of information on this question. If the inquiry be- confined to the last forty or fifty years, there is a whole army of gentlemen who have had that long experience in the weaving factory, the engine shop, or the building yard. These gentlemen can furnish much more reliable information on this question than it is possible to- extract from any statistical tables, however carefully they may be prepared. In making such an assertion it is necessary to show how it is possible that what is apparently the prosperous state of the^ counti-y, can be detrimental to a large portion of its inhabitants. There are agencies at work the tendency of which is to depress the workman. Fortunately many of these are under the control of the workman, if he choose to avoid them ; but there is one, the most powerfully depi-essing agency of all, over which he has no control Avhatever ; it is entirely in the hands of the capitalists and employ ers,^ and it is one of the principal factors in the depression of trade at the- present time; he referred to the labour-saving appliances of modern times. Labour-saving machinery ought to be encouraged ; the evil is not in the machinery but in the keen, grasping disposition of those who have it under their control. Were they to meet it in the spirit they ought to do, it might be a blessing to every one, while at present- it is a curse to many a workman. Fifty years ago labour-saving machinery was comparatively little known. Now, there are occupa- tions where the labour of the woi'kman has been nearly dispensed with altogether, although fifty years ago the labour was entirely performed by the workman. In carpet weaving, fifty years ago, the workman drove the shuttle with the hand, and produced from forty- five to fifty yards per week, for which he was paid from 9d. to Is, per yard, while at the present day a girl attending a steam loom can produce sixty yaids a day, and does not cost her employer l^d. per yard for her labour. That girl with her loom is now doing the work of eight men. The question is, How are these men employed now 1 In a clothier's establishment, seeing a girl at work at a sewing- machine, he asked the employer how many men's labour that machine saved him. He said it saved him twelve men's labour. Then he asked, ' What would these twelve men be doing nowl ' ' Oh,* he said, ' they will be much better employed than if they had been with me, perhaps at some new industry.' He asked, ' What new industry 1 ' but the employer could not point out any, except photo- graphy : at last he said they would probably have found employment in making sewing-machines. Shortly afterwards he was asked to visit the American Hinger Hewing Machine Factoi-y near Glasgow. He got this clothier to accompany him, and when going over the. WEDNESDAY MORNING. 73> works they came upon the very same kind of machines as the- clothier had in his establishment. They put the question to the manager, 'How long would it take a man to make one of these machines 1 ' He said he could not tell, as no man made a machine ; they had a more expeditious way of doing it than that ; there would be upwards of thirty men employed in the making of one machine ;. but he said if they were to make this particular kind of machine, they would turn out one for every four and a half days' work of each man in theii' employment. Now, there was a machine that with a girl had done the work of twelve men for nearly ten years, and the owner of that machine was under the impression that these twelve men would be employed making another machine, while four and a half days of each of those men were sufficient to make another machine that was capable of displacing other twelve men. Were this a solitary case, thei-e would be little to complain of, but when we take into account that it is the same with almost every industry under the sun, it becomes a serious consideration. (Hear, hear.) The building in which they were met would have taken double the number of men to construct it fifty years ago that it would at the present day. There is scarcely a branch connected with house-build- ing in which labour-saving machinery has not come into operation. Slating and plasterwork are but slightly affected, but in some of the other departments one man with two assistants attending a machine will do as much work as sixty men would have done fifty years ago. Viewing the present depression of trade in the light of these facts, how can it be possible for men to get a living who have nothing but their labour to depend on, and who have been deprived of a market for their labour by the introduction of labour-saving appliances 1 Is it not necessary that there should be a reduction of the hours of labour so as to allow everyone to earn his own Livelihood ? It would certainly be better that ten men should work six hours a day, and all be employed, than that six men should work ten hours a day and the other four men go about idly and be supported as paupers. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Giffen made great efforts to induce the public to believe that the working classes have been greatly benefited by the increase of their wages during the last fifty years. His own impression was that the wage-earning population would have enjoyed all the com- forts they now do, had wages remained at the rate they were fifty years ago. Practically wages have not risen at all, for just as wages rose everything else advanced in price — clothing, house rents, and food, with very few exceptions, and, from the very nature of trade,, it cannot be otherwise if people are to deal fairly and honourably towards each other. Fifty years ago wages were little more than. 74 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. Jialf of what they are now. Assume that in the house-building trade the masons claim and gain advance of 10 per cent, on then.' wages. Then the joiner, the slatei', the unskilled and all other branches connected with house-building, would consider that they were as much entitled to an advance of 10 per cent, as the masons, and they would get it. The house that could formerly be built for one thousand pounds would then cost eleven hundred pounds, and the house rent that was formerly 10/. would be 111. Next come in their turn the clothier, the shoemaker, and the baker ; these very naturally say that if they are to pay 10 per cent, more for houses, they are entitled to get 10 per cent, more for the commodities they are pro- ducing for the builders. They also make the demand and get the advance, and the same thing goes on until within two years from the start every occupation has got 10 per cent, of aa advance. They are now all upon a level as formerly, only 10 per cent, higher, and ready to start afresh for another advance. Every one is getting 10 per cent, more for his labour, and paying 10 per cent, more for every- thing he requires, so that, practically, wages have not risen at all. Individually, the workman is no better, while nationally he is a great deal worse. With high wages and heavy import duties at home, and ■export bounties abroad, the produce of his labour is practically shut ■out of the foreign markets, while the foreigner is fi-eely bringing his manufactures into this country and outselling the home manufacturer in his own market, and our own workmen are going about starving. By the aid of their trades unions workmen have succeeded in nearly doubling their wages, and in doing so they have spent large sums of money on strikes and lock-outs, but they have fought against their own shadows, and gained the victory over themselves. What did the 10 per cent, advance of wages matter to their employers 1 It affected them only so far as they had contracts taken at the time. Beyond that, and at the very first opportunity, they recouped themselves from the house proprietors for whom they erected the houses, and the house proprietors in turn recouped themselves from the people who inhabit the houses, so that in the end things are no better than they were at the beginning. Impartial investigation would do much to expel from the minds of workmen that that phantom breach be- tween capital and labour, that exists only in the imagination, would help to maintain the prosperity of the country by establishing a more friendly feeling between employers and their workmen. (Applause.) Professor Barstable (Statistical Society of Ireland), having observed that the discussion had not kept very close to the qviestion, pointed out that there were thiee classes distinctly mentioned amongst whom the products of industry were to be distributed. Two of these WEDNESDAY MORNING. 75 classes were placed together in the terms of the question, capitalists and employers. Anyone acquainted with the facts would see that the remuneration of one of these classes might be gi-eatly diminished, whUe that of the other might be vastly increased. Carefully prepared statistics had, he thought, shown that the remuneration of capital had not increased. As a matter of fact, the rate of interest had been steadily falling for many years. On the other hand, the remuneration of employers, where they were successful, had undoubtedly increased ; but with regard to the remuneration of employers as a body, there had been so many failures that the question was an open one, whether they had, as a whole, succeeded. In considering this question, the progress of industry in the last one hundred years must not be dealt with as a fact by itself. In other periods of English history exactly the same kind of depression had occurred ; in the Elizabethan period, for example ; in fact, it was a feature common to all periods of transition. One striking fact had not been brought out in regard to depression, viz. that it was not connected with the progress of machinery. Undoubtedly the working classes had advanced during the present century, whatever might be said of their relative advan- tages two or three centuries ago. The depression at the commencement of this century existed far more on the continent than it did in England. The terrible extent of the depression was pointed out by Sismondi, in his great work, who contrasted the condition of England, where machinery was greatly developed, with the continent, where it was not. A point, especially worthy of notice, in Mr. Lloyd Jones's paper, was his remark that England possessed only a limited foreign ti'ade in what he had called the pre-mechanical times. Taking trade as a whole, that was disputable. So eminent an authority as Adam Smith had shown distinctly that England's foreign wars materially affected exports, especially of woollen products, and that, at the conclusion of peace, after certain great wars, considerable distress followed, in consequence of the excessive production of English manufactures, the check put upon exports, and also the number of men disbanded. The change in the relations of masters and workmen had been attributed largely to the progress of industry. That statement was plainly open to dispute. The change was due partly to the breaking up of the feudal system, partly to the repeal of the Corporation Laws, itself partly due to the action of the emjjloyers, and in great part to the spiiit of independence developed among the working-men, i.e. the democratic spiiit. In the early part of the present century the continental system adopted by Napoleon had the effect of considerably injuring English trade. It was a remarkable fact that this growth of industry, which advanced the position of the 76 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. employers, was so disastrous^to foreign countries that several of them,, if not all, endeavoured to encourage manufacturing industry by pro- tective systems. We were all aware that, in America, the protective system was adopted to encourage manufactvires. The same course was adopted by Gei-many, and was always maintained in France. Within the last few years, the working classes had received at least one advantage : they had been enabled to get sound education for their children. Several delegates had apologised for remarks which, might be considered unpolite, owing to want of education. It was perfectly plain that the working classes were not by any means deficient in education. As a matter of fact, more hard language had been used on the side of employers than on the part of working men.^ With reference to the terms of the question, as it appeared on the paper, it should be borne in mind that, while there were employers who developed industry, there was also a division of capitalists or persons generally known as speculators ; for, if consideration was paid to the amount of profit made in trade, it would appear clear that a great deal of such profit, which included interest and employer's remuneration, was the result of speculation, and not of the fair management of industry. All would recognise the fact that some of these men lost considerably by speculation. The extraordinary development of industry in the early part of the century did not seem to have been brought out sufiiciently in discussion. No doubt the action of trades unions had succeeded in removing a great deal of difficulty, and had placed the working-man in a much stronger and better position. In such a country as America there was no great class prejudice, and yet there was the same tendency to divide the workmen from the employers, a great number of the latter having risen from the ranks of the working-men. (Applause.) Professor Marshall (Professor of Political Economy in the University of Cambridge) remarked that there had been a tendency for those who ranked with the wage-receivers to try to prove that wages were low, as, throughout the discussion generally, there had been a tendency to try to show that wages were high. It would be a gi-eat advantage if they could look at the matter from a purely impaitial point of view. There was a great temptation to exaggerate the misery around us. No doubt the misery that did exist at present was a scandal ; it ought not to exist. Had it not been for the re- pression of knowledge in earlier years, and had it not been for the military system which kept down the fi-ee development of the people, we should long ago have risen out of a state in which the condition of the working classes was unendurable. There was no use whatevei- in pretending that their present condition was satisfactory ; on the- WEDNESDAY MOKNING. 77 •other hand, there was great positive harm in trying to make it appear that they were worse off than they had been formerly, because, then, the advocates of the old repressive system, and of all the things which hung together with that system, would say : ' They surely are going ■on the wrong tack.' (A Delegate : So we are.) It was, therefore, right that members of the Conference should put a little restraint upon themselves and not allow their indignation at existing evils to induce them to exaggerate the happiness of times that had passed away. What Mr. Lloyd Jones had said about statistics of the present day was certainly true. It was difficult to get accurate statistics but how were statistics in past times got 1 Much of the evidence of the well-being of the working classes came from the stray notes of travellers who formed their impressions as carelessly as Mr. Anthonv Trollope did when he made his tour in America. Mr. Lloyd Jones had said there was an enormous improvement in production, and yet very little increase in the actual wages of the working classes. It was quite true there had been an enormous increase in the power of producing watches ; and, if the working classes wanted to spend all their income on watches, they would be veiy much better off than they had been before. But when they spoke of the income of the working classes, they thought chiefly of bread and meat, and house-room, and there had not been so great an increase in the pro- duction of these. It is not fair to complain that the increase of production has not raised wages much, and to measure the increase in production only in manufactures, while we measure wages chiefly "with reference to raw produce. The times had not been so much out of joint as some persons imagined, who thought that, if wealth were divided equally, all would be rich. That was quite a mistake. If they were to divide the wealth equally, the average per head would be only 36/. 8s. for England and Wales, the richest part of the kingdom. [A Delegate : Per head of the family ?] No, per head of the population. Many families in Lancashire earned qviite five times that amount. [A Delegate: Not many. Where?] It was quite trvie there were few statistics with regard to the past ; but they had them for 1688 and 1803 ; and these could be compared with our •estimates for 1883. In 1688, the average wages of the working classes of England and Wales was 3^. 10*,, and of the total population 8/. ; the average for the working classes was, therefore, 45 per ceiit. of the income enjoyed by the average of the population. In 1803, it rose to 50 per cent, (the income of the working classes being 12/. a head, and that of the whole population 24/.), and in 1883, to 57 per •cent, (the income of the working classes being 20/. 14*. a head, and that of the whole population 36/. 8s.). In this estimate for 1883, 78 INDUSTEIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. lie was going on Mr. Dudley Baxter's figures, with some modifications.. Mr. Mulhall had published no estimate in detail of the wages of the working classes, and, therefore, ought not to be compared with either Professor Leone Levi or Mr. Dudley Baxter on this matter. But the last two authorities might faii-ly be compared : Mr. Baxter ex- cluded from the wage-receiving class, foremen, overlookers, &c., whom Mr. Levi reckons, as most other people do, among them. Also he assumed as the basis of his estimate that 20 per cent, of the Av'orking classes were habitually out of employment. Most people thought that too high. Lastly, Mr. Baxter took the year 1867,. when there was a great deal of depression : Professor Levi, 1866, when things were much better. Allowing for these diflferences they would find the results of these two careful statisticians agreed very closely, and were on the whole trustworthy. In all ages of the world there had been a general tendency to believe that men were now worse off than their ancestors, and that all the things they had to wear were of inferior quality to the clothes worn in old times. It had been stated, in the course of the discussion, that the quality of fustian was 125 per cent, worse. Test that statement by reason. Cotton had never been cheaper than it was now ; at the beginning of the present century it was 1^. 6(7. per lb.; it shortly fell to about the price at which it stood now. It had, since that fall, remained at the same price, except during the American "War. Meanwhile, there had of course been great improvements in the machinery by which fustian was made. The Hebden-Bridge Fustian Co- operative Society was admirably managed and they could trust its accounts. If it was true that thoroughly bad material could be sold at nearly the price for which material was formerly made ; if it was true that the Hebden-Bridge Society bought its raw material quite as cheaply as it used to be bought, that it had better machinery, and not very much higher wages, then that Society ought to be able to divide 300 per cent, per annum on its capital. As they did not make these large profits, it was clear either that wages had risen enormously, or that good fustian was to be had cheaper than before. [A Delegate : What about the paper boots 1] There had been bad things in all times. Mr. Lloyd Jones had ?aid that popular rumour should be trusted as to the state of depression in the country. If they read history they would find that, out of eighty-four years in the present century, there had been about fourteen in which there was no murmur of depression in industry ; in all the others there had been. If they looked into the details they would find far greater misery than any that was at all common now. In the year 1840, in Liverpool, there were as many as 30,000 persons living in 8,000 cellars ; none of the cellars WEDNESDAY MOENINa. 79 were ever dry, and after a considerable rain most of them Avere flooded. Where is now New Oxford Street, between Old Oxford' Street and Holborn, there was formerly a large area, with scarcely a single drain, where the people were packed like sardines in a box. The stories they had lately heard about the present condition of the people at the East-end of London, terrible as they were, were not as bad as the stories told of the former condition of the poorer classes of the population. Do not let them delude themselves with the idea that any distribution of wealth would make the condition of affairs perfect or satisfactory. We want to inci-ease the production nearly as much as we want to improve the distribution of wealth. Times were no doubt out of joint, but there was no good in pretending that they were more out of joint than formerly. Mr. Williams (Social Democratic Federation) said that, as a labourer representing the labouring portion of the Social Democratic Federation, he confessed it was very hard to do, as the last speaker had suggested, namely, to put a restraint upon himself, and not condemn the employing classes quite as much as he, and those who agreed with him, had been doing. He maintained that they were- fully justified in going as far as they had gone in attacking the- employing classes, seeing the extent of the poverty and misery surrounding them, and the number of yeai's they had been figlitino* this question. The men who had been working up the class hatred are the emplopng classes, who had none but themselves to thank if this class hatred now existed. With regard to the condition of the workers, whenever times of depression arose, somebody was sure to- come forward and tell them they were better off now than they had been years ago. However that may be, the question was. Did they now get a fair share of the product they created by their labour 1 If they did not, then he for one would go on condemning the present system until they did get a fair share. Professor Leoni Levi wanted to make out that the workmen of to-day were a gi-eat deal better off than formerly : he said the income of the working class was about 569,000,000/. Figures such as those had been used in times of depression for the purpose of deceiving the working classes, for he maintained that their income was only 300,000,000/. Professor Levi had gone back to the year 179.3, when, as he stated, the agricultural' labourer received but \s. 9d. a day, whereas now he got from 2s. to 2s. 6d., from which, concluded the Professor, the agricultural labourer was better off now than then. But Professor Levi seemed to have forgotten that the purchasing power of that Is. 9d. was much greater at that time than the purchasing power of 2s. or 25. 6d. in these days. (Hear, hear.) That fact was well-known to all who hadi 80 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. studied the currency question. Moreover the agricultural labourer liad then his own plot of land, on which he could grow his own vegetables, and where he could have his one or two pigs — advantages which considerably helped to keep him in comfort. Again, the same professor hud stated that the agricultural labourer of the former period could not live on Is. Qd. a day, and had therefore to apply for <;harity, but that now, as he received '2s. or 2s. 6d. a day, he could put something by to support him in his old age. These figures seemed to be jumbled vip for the purpose of deceiving the working classes. Sir Thomas Brassey had said that it was a vague idea that the rich wei-e getting richer and the poor poorer. As a labouring man he declared emphatically that wealth was to-day getting into fewer hands, and the laboui-ing population were becoming poorer and poorer day by day. He owned that gentlemen could not see this sitting at their "West- end clubs. What they should do was to go to the Dock gates, for there they would see thousands of men begging, and even clamouring, for employment ; then, they might ask if that ■was a proper state of things to exist in this country. Sir Thomas Brassey had said, what was wanted was a better understanding. Why, for years and years, the working classes had been trying to arrive at an understanding with their employers, but the latter Avould not allow them to do so. The time had now gone by for a better understanding, and the time had come to declare that the present degrading system should exist no longer. (Applause.) He Avas convinced that many men would go away from the Conference determined to do their utmost to sweep away that system. The return of the Post Office Savings Banks, to which Professor Levi had referred, was really no criterion as to the wealth of the working classes, and, therefore, to quote that return for such a purpose was misleading, because a majority of the depositors belonged to the middle classes. He knew of family after family belonging to the middle classes, the members of which, from the youngest to the parents themselves, placed money in the Post Office Savings Banks. He consequently dismissed that return as vague and misleading so far as concerned the suggestion that it represented the savings of the working classes. As a labouring man for twenty-five jears, and unmarried still, he had been unable to put by anything in the Post Office Savings Bank. As to over-production, there was no such thing in this country. How could there be when people were seen walking about our cities in lai-ge numbers, starving for want of work and crying for the things that filled the warehouses. (Hear, hear.) After that, the theories about over-production ought to be knocked on the head. With repaid to thrift, the working classes were the most thrifty people WEDNESDAY MOENING. 81 iinder the sun : there was no mistake about it. (Applause.) The people who talked so much about thrift had said : ' You should live ■on less.' German employers said the same thing to their workmen, ^nd the Chinese to theirs ; and it was said the Chinese had sufficient. But, surely, they would not have English workmen live in the same way as the Chinese. He remembered, when the Duke of Westminster called a meeting to consider the question of thrift, he was asked whether he did not believe that the working classes were the most thrifty people under the sun. In reply, his Grace said : ' I do not think they are.' Said the workman who had put the question, 'I will prove that they are the most thrifty. Only let me have your income, and you, in exchange, take mine — my wages of 18s. a week — and then we would soon see whether you could save anything. My opinion is that at the end of the year, you would be knocking at the workhouse door.' (Hear, hear.) As to peasant proprietorship, he denied that it would do away with poverty; and in proof of this he might state that in France, where the system existed, the people were in abject poverty. — The Chairman : We are drifting into the subjects put down for the third day. — Mr. Williams concluded by expressing a hope that, whatever delegates might come on the platform, they would speak out what they thought, freely and fearlessly, whether by so doing they offended or not, the classes whom they had to affright. (Applause.) Sir T. Brassey, in reply, said : Although much they had heard that morning was necessarily of a very painful character, and although the particular subject which he undertook to discuss was less congenial to him than some other topics, such, for instance, as the subject of what capital could and ought to do for labour, never- theless he was glad to have been present at the Conference. It was valuable and instructive to all classes of the community to have an opportunity of meeting together, and discussing in a spirit of sym- pathy and appreciation the important problems which had been brought under consideration. Some of the speakers had sought to traverse the statements he had made. No one could dispute the increasing returns of accumulated savings, but the fact that capital was being rapidly accumulated, did not prove large profits as much as a general desire to save. He had given some figures to show that there was a tendency to reduction in the rate of profit. More in- formation on the subject was greatly wanted. The Governments of other countries were doing much more than had been done by our own Government to supply information on this matter. In America, the collection of statistics, bearing upon the interests of the labouring man, had been carried a great deal further than it had been in 82 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. England, But, in addition to what the Government might do in' order to furnish information, there were many other sources to which' we might confidently look. The trades union organisations might be most useful for such work. He was not one of those who in the' least questioned the extent, value, or necessity of these organisations ; on the contrary, he looked to the intelligent guidance which came from trades union organisations as one of the surest means of im- proving the relations between capital and labour. A great deal could be done by the introduction and extension of co-operative industry. The returns of the joint-stock companies were made- public, and, by testing the results by the dividends declared, the workmen in the several trades could gauge very fairly the value- of their claims. A word or two as to what capital could do for labour : what did labour require ? It required higher wages and' increased purchasing power for those wages. Observations had been made, and, he regretted, with great truth, as to the insufficiency of wages in many trades. To what was that insufficiency due 1 It was due to excessive competition for employment. One of the speakers had referred to the insufficiency of the wages of our able seamen. He knew something of the hard life of the seamen, and he had always considered that the wages of our seamen were lamentably low. But why was it that the wages were so low in the sailing ships of this country 1 It was owing to the competition of the foreigner. Vessels- were largely manned by foreign seamen, who were glad to serve in British ships at low rates of wages. How was this to be remedied ? how were they to obtain an advance of wages ? By increasing the demand for labour. They miist endeavour to create more and wider markets for British productions. By stimulating the growth of our colonies, a double result would be produced : firstly, the creation of a larger market for British goods, and secondly, an increased demand for labour in this country, thereby tending to increase the rate of wages in England. Such, among other means, seemed to him the most practicable by which capital might do a service to labour. Unless capital could show itself to be of some service to the community, the tenure of the capitalist would be, and ought to be, precarious. Mr. Lloyd Jones, in reply, said, as to his remark respecting the very large increase of the mechanical producing power of the countiy, Professor Marshall's observations with reference to watches did not apply to that at all. Every machine that was made produced some- thing in the factories and workshops at home, and every product at. home was exchangeable abroad — food no less than any other product — so that an increase of food had been brought abovit by the increase of machinery, and the more machinery was increased, the greater WEDXESDAY 3I0EXING. 83 would be the exportation of its product, and the more would the food of the people of this country be increased. He had not himself said that the poor were getting poorer, and the rich i-icher ; but he did assert that that was not the question for the present age. The question was not whether the worker was better off than his grandfather in a number of things, but whether he was as well off as the resources of the country entitled him to be. We could not reform the past, but we could reform the use we made of that which was in our hands at present. He did not accept the rumours that were going about in regard to the condition of the people. He had lived too long in connexion with the newspaper press to accept all it had to say. He used his own eyes and ears in preference to any number of doubt- ful tables of figures which might be brought forward. What he saw, and heard, and had touched, he believed; but were tables of statistics doubled, he would not believe one of them without corro- boration. Mr. D. Cunningham, in reply, said that the figures given in his paper had been taken from the wages' books of the Dundee Harbour Trustees, which were still extant, and could be consulted by anyone who disputed the correctness of his statistics. If corroboration were wanted as to the great rise in the rates of wages that had taken place in Dundee, the case of printers might be cited. Printers, from 1833 to 1838 received IG*. per week, while from 1876 to 1884, for news- papers, the pay for work ranged from 32s. Qd. to 4:2s., and for book and jobbing work, from 2Qs. to 35^. Coincident with such an extraordinary increase, the hours of work per week had diminished from not less than 60 to .51 hours; that was to say, that, while the rate of pay was doubled, the hours of work had been much reduced. Then, as to the savings of the working classes in Dundee, the return of the Dundee Savings Bank showed that, in the last eight years — that was from the end of 1876 to the end of 1884 — the deposits had increased from 447,080/. to 739,483Z., or by 290,000^. ; and, as he was assured by the accountant and cashier of that bank that eleven- twelfths of the depositors belonged to the working classes, he contended that the savings of these classes had largely increased, and that they must have realised a greatly improved condition. o2 AFTERNOON SESSION. HAS THE INCREASE OF THE PRODUCTS OF INDUSTRY WITHIN THE LAST HUNDRED YEARS TENDED MOST TO THE BENEFIT OF CAPITALISTS AND EMPLOYERS, OR TO THAT OF THE WORKING CLASSES, WHETHER ARTISANS, LABOURERS, OR OTHERS? AND IN WHAT RELATIVE PROPORTIONS IN ANY GIVEN PERIOD? Loss or Gain of the Working Classes during the Nineteenth Century. By Edith Simcox. We can more easily compare the condition of capitalists and employers now and a century ago, than we can the condition of the working classes at the same dates. There must, therefore, be a good deal of guess-work in any attempt to solve the pro- posed problem, and perhaps also some danger of mistaking guesses for statistical certainty. With this proviso, I am pre- pared to submit the following answer to the question before us. The chief benefit of the industrial progress of the last century has been reaped — amongst capitalists by the greatest capitalists ; amongst employers of labour by the largest employers ; in general, by the dealers in commodities (labour included), rather than by makers or producers ; and amongst makers and producers, by those engaged in the most skilled rather than the most laborious work. In other words, there is more difference between the wealth and expenditure of a large manufacturer or mill-owner and a small one now than there was a hundred or even fiftyyears ago ; there is more difference now between the owners of one of the colossal clothes-shops of the West-End and the little draper of a county town than there was in the same trade a hundred WEDNESDAY AFTEENOON. 85 years ago ; there is more difference between a great contractor and a working builder, more difference between a great banker and bis manager and clerks now than there was then ; and, finally, there is more difference between the skilled artisan of to-day — an educated trades unionist, politician, and, probably, social reformer — and the residuum of the industrial population, than there was a century ago between the steadiest mechanic and the most loutish labourer.^ The struggle for existence has been growing fiercer between the members of every distinct class, while at the same time the prizes for exceptional success have increased in value and the penalties for absolute failure in severity. Speaking generally, the rich trader has grown richer, and the poor trader, if he has not grown poorer absolutely, has grown poorer in relation to his wants. If this be so, it is plain why the unqualified phrase about the rich growing richer and the poor poorer strikes those familiar with middle-class poverty as unreal. Struggling pro- fessional and business men are not classed with the poor, and yet they are certainly not growing richer. There is, I believe, a universal consensus of opinion amongst men of business, that it is harder now to make sure of a moderate income than it was fifty or seventy-five years ago, and though a mere impres- silon that the former times were better than these is open to suspicion, it is confirmed, as far as the last forty years are con- cerned, by the interesting table compiled by Mr. Giffen to show the number of persons at different amounts of income charged under Schedule D in 1843 and 1880 respectively .^ P>om this table it appears that small incomes have increased 300 per cent., moderate incomes not quite 240 per cent., large incomes 400 per cent., and very large incomes 800 per cent. The medium incomes, which in 1843 were nearly 17 per cent, of the whole, have fallen to a little over 1 3 per cent. The evidence of the ' There is one exception — perhaps two — to this rule. The gulf between a bishop and a curate is less wide and deep than it was a hundred years back ; and I am not sure that there is any more difference now than then between the highest and the lowest earnings of feminine industry. The proprietress of a fashionable finishing establishment, early in the century, must have realised at least as large an income as the head-mistress of a modern high school does now. ^ See Appendix A., p. 96. 86 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. assessed taxes is in the same direction, and tends also to show that middle-class poverty is not owing to a numerical increase in that class as compared with the rest of the community,* and that the proportion of the population which can be shown by authentic records to enjoy some measure of ease and luxury has not materially increased. The percentage of increase amongst income tax payers is higher than the increase of population, but in all these comparisons we must bear in mind the useful warning lately uttered by Mr. Giffen in the Times, that 'the consider- ation of amounts as well as percentages is always material, and that to ignore the first element is " to blunder statistically." ' In 1880, as compared with 1843, we have in England and Wales 10,000 more people with 1,000Z. a year and upwards, to console us for the additional 9,990,000 who have come during the same interval into the possession of a less gratifying revenue. In comparing the rate of progress in different sections of the working classes the revenue returns give us no assistance. But it will be admitted that the standard of comfort has risen amongst the well-to-do class of operatives. The elite of the mechanical trades — engineers, masons, carpenters, compositors, &c. — when all goes well, can and do provide for their households on a more lil)eral scale, as regards everything but house-room, than their prototypes at the beginning of the century. Given the great change to town from country life, perhaps it might be said that the home of a steady, skilled, and fortunate artisan would bear comparison with that of the lamented yeoman of old times. Mutatis mutandis, the conscious wants are about as well met, and there is therefore progress, as the mechanic of one hundred years ago was worse off than a yeoman. Unstinted food, clothes of the same pattern as the middle class, when house-rent permits, a tidy parlour, with stiff, cheap furniture, which, if not itself luxurious or beautiful, is a symptom of the luxury of self-respect, and an earnest of better taste to come, a newspaper, a club, an occasional holiday, perhaps a musical instrument — these represent tlie nineteenth century equivalent to the yeoman's pony, shining pewter, bits of ancestral oak, and homespun napery. The life is more alert, as yet less pic- ' See Appendix B., p. 97. WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON. 87 turesque, but excluding none of the possibilities of real civilisa- tion. We may even go so far as to admit that the prosperous operative is better off in comparison with the unprosperous middle-class man than ever before. But we cannot con- gratulate ourselves on this show of progress till we know to what proportion of the manual labour class this description applies. Except in the year 1851, the census returns have been ingeniously arranged so as to throw as little light as possible upon the real distribution of the people, and the comparative number of employers and employed. An analysis will, however, be found in the Appendix (B), from which it appears that about twenty millions of the whole population registered for England and Wales in 1881 (25,974,439) must belong to the manual labour class. The remaining five or six millions include, besides the millionaires, landowners and other income- tax payers, the working farmers and tradesmen, petty shop- keepers, governesses, clerks,^ and small employers of labour ; and though actual starvation may be rare amongst these, all the other evils of poverty are familiar to the less fortunate members of every section of the group. If any portion of the •community lives in clover at the expense of the rest, it is certainly not so large a proportion as one-fifth of the whole. Half at least of the five millions have as much to gain as the twenty millions by any reformation of the economic order, which will distribute the rewards of industry more equally, and dimi- nish the wasteful fury of competition. Ten per cent, of the popu- lation may be interested (pecuniarily) in keeping things as they •are ; 90 per cent, have more to gain than to lose by change. If we go back to the beginning of the century, about 2,000,000 (one-fourth of the population) lived in what are now urban sanitary districts with a population exceeding 50,000. Certainly a good deal over half the population then lived under what would now be called rural conditions, while less than two-fifths can be said to do so now. In 1801, then, we may ' It appears from a recent newspaper correspondence, that clerks in the •employment of important companies are so badly paid that, like the Govern- ment officials of half-barbarous countries, such as Turkey and Russia, they can- not maintain a family unless they eke out their meagre salaries by peculation. 88 INDUSTRIAL REMUNEKATION CONij'EEENCE. reckon 4,000,000 townsmen against 16,000,000 now. I do not propose to quote Mr. Euskin or anyone more poetical than the Registrar-General, as to our gain or loss from this single change. The difference between the rate of mortality in town and country is such, that, in the course of the present century,'' in England and Wales one million deaths are to be attributed to that cause alone. And these deaths are but a symptom. The towns have no monopoly of hovels or typhoid fever. What, then, must be the conditions of labour which are actually more fatal to life than the miserable existence of a farm labourer with a family to rear on 10s. a week? We know roughly what that lot involves, in scanty food, rheumatism, and brutalising hardship, and we have to realise that the life of the average townsman is physically harder, more exhausting and more dis- tressing to flesh and blood, than that of the agricultural poor. Moreover, for every death due to preventable causes there is much illness not at once fatal, and for every disabling illness much previous pain and discomfort, all of which sickness and suffering must be added with the million deaths to the debit account of our material progress. So must all the deaths due to the different duration of life in different classes, which has allowed it to be said that one generation of masters wears out three generations of men. It may seem inconsistent with the comparatively favourable record of rural districts, in regard to health, that the strong- hold of pauperism has always been in them. But, though it is not possible to exaggerate the degrading effects of the old Poor Laws, the injury and suffering caused by them was moral rather than physical. The pauper labourer became servile, helpless, and apathetic, but he had enough to eat, and did not work too hard for his health. He got subsistence wages, though they were paid on a false base, and these subsistence wages could be- got by any necessitous person who chose to claim them.. Hence, in comparing the beginning of the century with the end, we must remember that pauperism and poverty were more nearly co-extensive terms in 1800 than in 1880, The compara- tive diminution of pauperism is a good thing, but we cannot ' Appendix C, p. 100. WEDNESDAY AETERNOON. 89' argue from it to a corresponding diminution of poverty. The condition of the agricultural labourers has probably been more stationary than that of the town workers, and as their numbers also have been comparatively stationary, I will not linger on the question of their gains or losses, though a passing reminder may be permitted that their numbers are under a million, so that if the seven million acres of common land enclosed between the beginning of the eighteenth and the middle of the nine- teenth centuries were now open to their use, after allowing for the claims of other commoners, there would be an average of some five acres a-piece to every labourer : how many cows, pigs,, geese, ducks, and other live-stock might graze upon the five million acres I will leave it to statisticians to determine. We have unfortunately to do with what is, not what might have been. The total number of paupers relieved in 1882 is given as 803,381, or 3-1 per cent, of the population ; but this is no measure of the abject poverty existing at the same time»^ More than 10 per cent, of those who die in a year, die in work- houses or hospitals,' and this mortality represents a popu- lation of two and a half millions ; so that nearly three and a half millions of the population are either actual paupers, or in such poverty as to have been driven across the borders of pauperism by illness. If we allow also for those as poor as the last class who for the moment escape disabling sickness, to say nothing of those maintained by private charity, we cannot set the number of the poor who live miserably upon the verge of pauperism at less than five millions, or more than half the whole population at the beginning of the century. The country workers number perhaps another five millions, whose life, though hard, is a degree less poisonous than that of the townsmen. There remains to be considered the condition of some ten millions of town workers, including all mechanics and labourers whose life is not normally overshadowed by the fear of ' coming on the parish.' No hard and fast line can be drawn between the workers who are and those who are not to be counted amongst 'the poor '; there is a constant flux, and besides those ' Appendix D., p. 101. 90 INDUSTKIAL KEMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. who suffer from chronic underpayment, artisans, as well as tradesmen and rustics, are constantly sinking, with or without their own fault, into the depths of misery.^ It is not easy to judge how many of the ten millions do or might belong to the prosperous aristocracy of the working classes, that section with which politicians come in contact, and from whence come those whom society is rather over-hasty to welcome as ' representative working-men.' A few years ago Mr. Howell estimated the total number of trades unionists at about 1,250,000, and unionism has not been making rapid progress since then. The trades unionist is better off than the outside workman ; his wages not unfrequently average a shilling or so higher, he has more facilities for obtaining work, and usually receives both sick and out-of-work pay ; but there is no hard and fast line between society and non-society men ; many a man drops his subscription when times are bad, and if there are workmen outside the trade societies who are as well off as any unionist, there are plenty of unionists who feel the pinch of want ; the society money is a poor substitute for wages, and even that is not continued indefinitely. I confess I should hardly venture to hope that more than two millions of skilled workers, repre- senting a population of five millions, are living habitually in a state of ease and comparative security of the modest sort indicated above. The other five millions include the labourers and less skilled workers, male and female, wliose maximum wages only suffice for the necessities and the barest decencies of •existence, and for whom, therefore, any mischance means penury, passing swiftly into pauperism. I am aware that writers of eminence have sketched a more rose-coloured picture of the positive and comparative estate of the working classes. Mr. Dudley Baxter in 1867 and Mr. Leone Levi ten years later, and again to-day, by the aid of some con- jectural statistics, have estimated the collective income of the manual-labour class at an imposing total of millions sterling, which, divided by the total number of workers, and multiplied by two (because there are on an average two workers to a household), gives, according to the former, an average income • Appendix E., p. 101. WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON. 91 "to each working-class household of about 25s. ; ' say 1^. a week ■earned by the man, and 5s. by wife or child. Now, considering that to give even this average there must be, for every family with the moderate collective income of 3l. 5s., two families starving upon 5s., I might accept these figures as they are, and find in them a text for anything but cheerful considerations. But there are reasons- for thinking that (a) the rate of ' aver- age' wages has been fixed too high in these calculations; (b) that allowance enough had not been made for loss through illness, and want of work, which alone would swallow up the 20 per cent, deduction contemplated by Mr. Baxter, or for the excessively low wages earned by some classes of workers.' But, whether things are a little better or worse now, it may be said that they are better than they were. England was cer- tainly not an industrial paradise fifty years ago, and I have no wish to understate the gain of the minority who have gained something in the industrial struggle. I will admit that wages have risen 50 per cent, in the last forty or fifty years. Let us see how much of this is pure gain. How much does the work- man keep, and how much goes in increased rent ; and is ' The average earnings of the Peabody tenants, a picked class, is 11. 3s. 8d. ■See also Appendix G., p. 108. 2 Appendix F., p. 101. ' A new report has just been comjpiled by Professor Leone Levi, which gives the average income of each working class family at 11. 12s. ; but it would be premature to criticise this conclusion till the materials upon which it rests have been made public. To explain some of the discrepancies between his •conclusions and those presented here, it may be observed that he puts the working class population at 70 per cent, instead of 75 per cent, of the whole, "while two curious particulars augur ill for the convincing nature of the pro- mised details. It is stated thac, ' in the case of domestic servants, factory labourers, and others, persons of 15 years and upwards usually earn full wages.' This will be surprising to employers of ' domestic servants and others.' The other statement, which is surprising in another way, is tliat the average •earnings of 'males under 20,' are lower in 1884 than 1867. The effect of the Education Acts in discouraging the employment of small children at nominal wages, has been to raise (in many cases as much as 300 per cent.) the wages earned by boys on first going out to work ; and even if the wages of youths between 15 .and 20 had not increased proportionately, it is inconceivable that there should have been any falling off in the two classes together. On the other hand, the average earnings per head of all workers ought to have risen slightly to make up for the reduction in the number of children returned as workers, but leceiving only trivial sums. 92 INDUSTEIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. employment at the higher rate as continuous as it was at the lower ? Again, not to weary you with minute figures, I will refer to the appendix ' for evidence chat in London at all events, three-fifths of the increased wages go in increased rent, leaving a bare increase of 20 per cent, in the workman's hands. As to the second point, I do not think there is any exact statistical evidence in existence, but we have seen before that statistics when available bear out any general impression based on a candid inspection of social records. A century ago yearly hirings were common ; they are now virtuall} unknown ;. engagements by the quarter, the month, the week, and the day,, have superseded them ; within the last half-century hirings by the hour have been introduced, ^ with the intention and the result of transferring the cost of the delays and loss of time, which are inevitable in all business, from the shoulders of the employer to the workman. I do not say that such engage ments are unfair or otherwise objectionable, but I do say that for real wages to remain the same, nominal wages must be higher to make up for this special source of loss. So with weekly wages, if farmers and even country gentlemen turn off their labourers at the beginning of winter, the men must either have their summer wages raised or desert a calling that will not .maintain them all the year round. The case of all season trades is similar, and in any trade in which work may be slack for three or six months of the year, wages, while obtainable, ought, to be proportionately above the average. It has been stated that the employment of dock labourers is much less continuous than it used to be, shippers being in a greater hurry to unload, so that one day all applicants may be employed, and the next few or none. If this be so, the wages of the class have fallen, though the price per hour is the same. It is needless to say that wages are not in fact highest in the trades where work is most intermittent. The tendency of which engagements by the hour are a sign,, to run every bargain as fine as possible, has a good many other effects. As long as human beings are in close personal rela- tions, a certain degree of kindliness grows up. But the enlarged ' Appendix G., p. 103. « Appendix H., p. lOG. WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON. 93 transactions of the present day cause employers and employed to be separated by such a ladder of intermediaries that the real employer is able to ignore things done in his name and in his interest which he would be incapable of doing himself.' Men who would not dream of offering starvation wages to a kitchen-maid, or even to a clerk, acquiesce resignedly in the supposed necessities of the market, which involve the cutting- down of prices to a point only reconcilable with the bank- ruptcy of the dealer or the starvation of the worker ; and as they do not intend to become bankrupt, they do intend to starve their fellow-citizens — beginning, I must admit, with the women. If you reason with a good-natured employer of Hiis class he says, * What are we to do ? ' Glasgow talks about the cheap labour of London, and Loudon of the cheap labour of Belfast, and each employer justifies himself by the example of the rest. II f aid vivre^ they say. By all means, only why not begin by letting the needlewoman live ? Can men have a right to do in numbers what they would not even wish to do singly ? Again, in a small community, when services are rendered directly from man to man, the principle of every one for him- self would not prevent, say, a gentleman, whose stable had caught fire, from feeling bound to provide for a groom or labourer who was disabled in extinguishing it. The ethics of the market recognise no such responsibility,- and thus the cost of all the countless accidents, which are an inevi- table accessory of our crowded civilisation, is cast exclusively upon the poorest members in the industrial partnership. In every business in which accidents occur the loss they entail is a part of the working expenses of the concern, yet we require that the manual workers shall not only incur the bodily risk, but also the pecuniary cost. Even the demands of the workers themselves do not go beyond compensation for injuries caused by the direct default of the employers. In the same way the cost of commercial crises is cast on the operatives, though the crises are caused by over-speculation, which is stimulated by over-accumulation, which is rendered possible by the antecedent under-payment of labour. When all goes well, the workman ' Appendix L, p. 106. ' Appendix K., p. 307. 94 INDUSTEIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. may live, in no more than decent comfort, but there are too many chances against him. Untimely death, sickness, want of employment, reduced wages and industrial accidents, affect so many that the exceptions to the rule that an honest worker need not starve are so numerous as to form a class counted by millions. I do not mean to say that all poverty is innocent, but I do believe that there is as much vice descended from blameless poverty as there is poverty descended from blameworthy vice. I am not asked to propose a remedy for existing evils, but to draw up an indictment against the existing social order is of little use, if its evils admit of no remedy. As I do not believe in a gospel of despair, perhaps I may be allowed a few words to explain why it does not seem chimerical to hope that the benefits of industrial emulation may be secured without the evils of reckless competition. Under the regime of armed' force, the feeble commonalty were driven to ' commend ' them- selves to some lord who would protect them against all oppression but his own. The modern capitalist is equally master of the- situation in regard to the working class, each of whom, to earn a living, must enter the ranks of the ' employed.' The ' man ' of the feudal lord had to fight for his master, the ' man ' of the- capitalist must work for his. But the king's peace was esta- blished at last between fighting barons ; why should we despair of establishing the people's peace between fighting capitalists ?' It is true that the barons died out when they ceased to fight,- and we do not regret them. They made way for the larger,, more civilised middle class, which has practically governed the country since the Civil War. If capitalists ceased to fight for each other's spoils, perhaps they might enjoy the same eu- thanasia ; but we should be consoled for this too, if the des- potism of money made way for an industrial system demanding fewer victims, and administered amicably by the whole people in the interests of all classes alike. The root of the difficulty is that our numbers have grown faster than our knowledge or feeling of the obligations imposed by social co-operation. It is troublesome to trace the indirect consequences of our personal actions, and we disclaim respon- sibility for the effects produced out of sight. But in the- WEDNESDAY AETEKNOOX. 95 medley, consequences are apt to get shifted on to the wrong- shoulders, and the more we look at the industrial world, the more clearly does it appear as a harvest-field for the gathering of those who have not strawed. In a complex social state men's fortunes are not determined simply by their own doing& and deserts. The individual capitalist has not acquired solely by liis own merits or industry the wealth standing in his name ; the individual pauper has not lost solely by his own guilt or indolence the means of independent existence. Society has helped the capitalist ; it has kept alive for him a supply of cheap labour and skilled labour, sujfficient to produce a surplus beyond his wants — however lavishly conceived — available for accumulation ; society protects his accumulations, and has determined (especially since the accumulations became large) that they shall be practically exempt from taxation.' Society has not helped the pauper. In modern England it has given the poorest class a smaller share than anywhere else of common property to eke out the earnings of unskilled or unlucky labour, and it has put the labour market at the mercy of speculation. A social war would not right the wrongs which a state ot social or economic war has produced ; but a revolution may yet be effected in the minds and consciences of the community, which wiU find its expression in a radical reformation of the theory and practice of the economic world. What we want is, on the part of the many, more wisdom in discerning, more firmness in demanding, their just rights ; on the part of the few, more wisdom in discerning, more courage in discharging, their just obligations. Each step forward on either side will make the next step easier for both, and as the few and the many draw together, the distinction between the two classes will cease to be that between workers and spenders. There will always be a few whom the democracy will delight to honour above the rest, but these few will be those whose services to the common good outweigh and outnumber the services of their fellows, not those whose only cleverness is to have appropriated to themselves the largest share of the collective earnings. ' To ' tax capital ' is to discourage commercial enterprise. •96 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. APPENDICES. A. Income and Expenditure of the Upper and Middle Classes SINCE 1800. Between 1841 and 1881, the population of England and Wales increased 40 per cent., and the numbers of taxable incomes had in- creased some 300 per cent., a strong proof, it might be supposed, ■of the increased diffusion as well as the growth of national wealth. But if we divide these incomes into three classes, I'epresenting, accord- ing to the current ideas of income-tax payers, respectively poverty, ■competence, and wealth, we reach the conclusion given in the text. Incomes under 500^., represent what is considered genteel poverty ; these incomes have more than trebled ; incomes between 500^. and 5,000/. represent ditferent standards of competence ; these have more than doubled; incomes from 5,000^. to 10,000/. represent wealth, and these have about trebled ; incomes between 10,000/. and 50,000/. have nearly quadrupled, and the number of millionaires with incomes of 50,000/. and upwards have increased eightfold : this only means an increase of 60 in the number of millionaires. Incomes between — £ 1843 1879-80. 150 and 500 . 87,946 274,943 500 „ 5,000 . 17,990 42,927 5,000 „ 10,000 . 493 1,439 0,000 „ 50,000 . 200 785 over 50,000 . 8 68 Total . 106,637 320,162 It must be remembered that incomes of 300/. to 500/,, represented more ease in the forties than in the eighties ; and also that the diminution in the proportion of larger, but still comparatively moderate, incomes, has taken place in spite of the tendency to divide large fortunes made in trade amongst the children. Other indications show that, taking the nation as a whole, expendi- ture on superfluities is not gaining ground as fast as might be expected from the growth of the national income. In 1841 the number of female indoor servants employed was about 1 in 15 of the population; in 1881 the number of indoor servants, both male and female, was 1 in 22. The proportion formerly prevailing for the whole country was only reached in London, tlie great centre of WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON. 97 residence for the money spenders of the whole kingdom. Of these so-called Avomen servants nearly 100,000 are under 15, so that the Ust includes every girl who minds the baby in households little richer than her own. In 1831, the maidservants were about 1 in 14. Before that date we have no complete record ; Pitt's unpopular tax on maidservants was assessed on 90,000 households, but girls were exempt, so that it is impossible to estimate the number of women- servants as accurately as the men : the latter, however, is a better measure of wealth. All our authorities for the social life of the 18th and early 19th centuries, agree in indicating that household establish- ments generally were on a larger scale in proportion to income then than they are now.^ In 1812, out of a population little over 10 millions, taxes were paid for 295,854 men employed in domestic and other services, a number exceeding that given in the last census (244,391) for a population 60 per cent, larger ; and the decrease is mainly in the number of indoor servants, kept from fashion, luxury, or ostenta- tion. The increase in the number of persons paying tax on armorial bearings has just about kept pace with the increase of population. B. Age, Sex, and Employments of the Working Population. In the first census of 1800 the only distinction drawn is between 'persons chiefly employed in agriculture' (1,713,289) and those employed in ' trade, manufactures, or handicrafts ' (1,843,353) — in all, 3,556,642 employed, and 4,873,103 children, women, and persons living on their means without work. In 1811 and 1821 the classifi- cation is by families : — 1811 1821 Agricultural . . 697,353 773,732 Manufacturing . . 923,588 1,118,295 Others . . . 3 91,450 454 ,690 Total . 2,012,391 2,346,717 In 1831 a separate account was given of the ' occupiers of land,' of whom 144,600 did, and 130,500 did not, employ labourers. In the same year a fresh heading was given of ' capitalists, bankers, professional, and other educated men,' who numbered 185,187, or with the employing occupiers, 329,787. In 1851 there were, in round numbers, 133,000 farmers employing labour to 87,000 master manufactui'ers and others doing the same ; the proportion of indus- • In other words, large and moderate incomes served to maintain directly a larger proportion of the population than now. H 98 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. trial employers would naturally be smaller at the earlier date, so 400,000 would be a fair total for the moneyed, professional, and commercial classes. When shopkeepers and unclassified avocations are added, there is no reason to doubt that all these with their families formed, in 1831, as large a proportion of the whole community as that assigned by Mr. Dudley Baxter in 1867 to the upper and middle classes — viz., 5,000,000 out of a population of 21,000,000, or rather less than a quarter of the whole. In 1851 (and unfortunately not since) ' masters ' were requested to return themselves as such, stating the number of men they em- ployed. The result showed 129,002 masters employing 727,468 men; of the former 41,732 employed no men, the remaining 87,270 averaged 8*3 men each. More than half the men (378,127) were employed by masters with 30 or more men, and more than a quarter by 752 masters who had 150 men or more. 1,142 might be called 'large employers' with 100 hands and upwards. Out of a total of 225,318 farmers (to 665,651 labourers) 91,698 employed no labour; and 2,073 might be called ' large farmers ' employing 20 or more labourers. Since 1851 this useful kind of information has been withheld, and we have instead an elaborate classification of persons ' working and dealing ' in all soi'ts of animal, vegetable, and mineral substances. It is, therefoi-e, impossible in the returns of the last census to distinguish clearly between workers and dealers, or between master manufacturers and their employes. The number of farmers has fallen off", and the proportion of masters to men in other callings has certainly not increased. It has probably diminished very much, as the average number of hands to an inspected factory (of which there were 6,703) in 1878 was 158, while in 1851 only 752 masters employed over 150. We shall, therefore, certainly not be under- stating the numbers of the employing class if we suppose it to have increased since 1831 at the same rate as the population, or about 50 per cent. The number of shopkeepers has to be arrived at also by inference and comparison, but the analysis, which was begun with- out any parti-jjris, has led to a result so nearly resembling that of Mr. Dudley Baxter, that the details would probably be accepted by any one to whom that gentleman's conclusions appeared satis- factory. The total jDopulation of England and Wales is made up as follows :^ Men and boys following some occupation . . 7,783,646 Women and girls „ „ ,, . . 3,403,918 Unoccupied (including all young children) . . 14,786,875 Total 25,974,439 WEDNESDAY AFTEKXOON. 99 The number of what may be called middle-class workers may be analysed as follows : — Men Professional 265,000 Clerks, &c 250,000 Farmers 200,000 Manufacturers (lai-ge and small) . . . 360,000 Warehousemen, shopkeepei-s, hotel-keepers, and dealers in drink 750,000 Sundry self employed workers and all not other- wise classed ....... 370,000 Women Professional 200,000 Commercial, itc. ...... 150,000 Total middle- class workers .... 2,445,000 Ileta,iuing Mr. Dudley Baxter's proportion of 2 workers to 3 dependents in this class, this will give us a working middle-class population of 3,667,500. To this must be added the ' unoccupied ' class, containing Men 180,000 Women 550^000 Total. . . . 730^000 A larger proportion of dependents may be allowed in this class not- withstanding the smaller average size of families ; if we allow 2 to 1 instead of 3 to 2 the tottil middle-class population will be 5,127.500, and if we allow 3 to 1, 5,757,500 — in any case between 5 and 6 millions. Belonging to the wage-eaniing or manual-labour class there are rather over 5| million men and boys, and over 3 million women and girls. Not quite half a million of these are children under 15. Of the men about half are labourers or in some kind of service (road, rail- way, (fee), the remaining half are miners or follow some kind of trade, or the miners may be taken separately at half a million, lejiving the labourers as the largest class. About half of the 3 million women are engaged in domestic and half in industrial work. The proportion of dependents to workers has increased, doubtless owing to the effects of the Education Acts in discouraging the employment of very young children, so that the 8| odd millions of manual workers represent not 17i, but somewhat over 20, millions. The number of married women who work seems to correspond roughly with the number of single women who do not work. Out of the 4^ millions of working-class 100 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNEKATION CONFERENCE. families probably three-quarters of a million depend upon the labour of a working mother (widowed, or otherwise thrown on her own re- sources), at least half a million partly on the labour of a working wife, whose earnings go to supplement her husband's, and half a million, as already stated, on the labour of children under 15 whose earnings go to supplement those of one or both parents. If we allow also for the unmarried adults who are counted as separate occupiers, it will be seen that not more than half the whole number of working-class families are maintained by the labour of the father assisted only by elder children. C. Comparative Mortality of Rural axd Urban Districts. In 1837, when the population of London (with y|^ of the area) was almost the same as that of the five south-western counties, the mortality was 53,597 against 34,074. The same districts in the following year showed a difference of nearly 30 per cent, against the capital, and the mean duration of life varied as from 37 in town to 50 in the country. A similar comparison between various urban and rural districts showed the number of septuagenarians to vary from 53 per 1,000 in Manchester to 210 in the Lake district. In 1851 the deaths per 1,000 averaged 24-9 for urban and 19*5 for rural districts, while the mean duration of life was 45 years in Surrey, and 25 in Liverpool and Manchester. In 1881 for an urban population of 15| millions it was 20*3 per 1,000, and for a riu^al population of 10^ millions it was 16 "8. The discrepancy between the two rates has been reduced, but the result is much the same when the smaller percentage is taken on the larger number. If the whole mortality of the century is put at 30 millions, and a mean 5 per cent, allowed on two-thirds of it for deaths, due simply to the mortality.of towns, we have the record of 1,000,000 lives — twenty times the whole pi^esent annual mortality of England and Wales — sacrificed to one single incident of the progress of our industrial civilisation. The meaning of these figures will be better realised when it is stated, as the result of inquiries made in various elementary schools and answered by between 6,000 and 7,000 children, that 14'5 per cent, of the children had lost either father or mother, i.e. that 96 in every thousand are fatherless and 49 in every thousand motherless. The fault lies, not in the towns, but in the conditions of town life for the poor ; in the Mayfair sub- district of S. George's, the last recorded rate of mortality was 11-34 per thousand, while that for the whole parish was only 15*7, or less than the general rural rate. WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON. 101 D. Mortality ix Workhouses axd Hospitals. In 1881 the deaths in workhouses, hospitals, infirmaries and public lunatic asylums — excluding prisons, almshouses, schools, pri- vate lunatic and benevolent asylums — were 53,187 out of 491,935 — or over 10 per cent, of the total mortality of England and Wales. Of this 7 per cent, took place in workhouses, 2*8 per cent, in hospitals, and 1 per cent, in asylums. If we put the mortality at 20 per 1,000, the famiHes connected with those who thus die in public institutions would number 2,659,300, or supposing the mortality to be higher in this class, there is at least a population of 2^ millions presumably in direct contact with pubHc charity besides the three-quarters of a million per- sons ia health who receive parish relief indoors or out. The increase in the number of workhouse inmates as shown by the census is about equal to the general growth of population between 1851 and 1881 ; the inmates of hospitals and lunatic asylums have increased more than in proportion, but this only indicates a larger provision for existing evils, not necessarily an increase on the evils themselves. E. Pauperism not Restricted to any Class or Calling. The report of a refuge published the other day enumerated amongst the persons sheltered, graduates of a univei-sity, a B. A., doctors, men of business, a builder, chemists, accountants, clerks, engineers, watch- makei'S, jewellers, compositors, governesses, dressmakers, milliners, mantle-makers, &c., and it is only a fair sample of such records. F. The Rate of Wages. Mr. Dudley Baxter's total is arrived at by taking a supposed normal or average rate of wages in each important industry, multi- plying by the number of persons returned under that head at the census, and knocking off 20 per cent, for all causes of loss, want of work, sickness, or low wages. It is assumed, that is to say, that every man working at a trade in which a man, when at work, may ordi- narily hope to earn 1^. a week, does actually earn not less than 4:11. 10s. in the year, or a real average of 16s. — and the whole struc- ture rests on this hypothesis. According to Sir Andrew Clark, the loss of time from sickness averages 9 days per annum among members of benefit societies ; the army and navy show nearly double that, and allowing for absences too short to make it worth while for the 102 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. member to ' go on his club,' a fortnight's loss from this cause would probably be the average minimK.m. in the picked and pi^ovident class ; a reduction in the average wages of 4 per cent, must therefore be made on account of sickness only. The loss of earnings from ' out of work ' is more incalculable. Naturally many men return themselves as ' unemployed ' at the census ; but as this circumstance has nothing to do with any animal, vegetable, or mineral substance, it is put aside as unimportant, and all who are out of work are nevertheless com- placently registered as ' working or dealing ' in one of the favoured elements. The out-of-work benefits paid by trade societies cannot be relied on either, as their rules vary ; Avhile the unionists are not only a picked minority, like the members of benefit societies, but also belong, as a rule, to trades in which employment is less precarious than in the ranks of unskilled labour. Falling back on common ex- perience, it would certainly not be an exaggeration to say, that at any given time for one family in distress owing to the illness of the bread-winner, there are three in distress owing to the want of work. ^ At this rate, Mr. Baxter's 20 per cent, would be swallowed up by these two causes only. But we have also to allow for money not earned owing to untimely devotion to S, Monday ; for economists must not, at the same time, scold working-men for wasting their time and for wasting the money which the waste of time has prevented their earning. I will not attempt to estimate the loss from this cause ; but it is certainly large, and promoted by all the social evils which promote intemperance and improvidence. But the most im- portant element of all is simply the prevalence of low wages, the immense variation of earnings between persons working nominally at the same trade. Mr. Baxter recognised this expressly in the case of ' Since the above was written, I have had access, through the kindness of Mr. Eric Robertson, to returns made by a number of Board School teachers respecting the number of children whose parents were out of work. Out of 6,488 children questioned, 1,299, or over 20 per cent., had fathers out of work; and this is an under-statement rather than not, as the whole number of chil- dren in the infant school is included, though many of the younger ones were naturally unable to answer the question, and no mention is made of widowed mothers out of work. The return was prepared about midsummer, when the proportion of the unemijloyed is at its lowest. Quite recently one of the by- laws officers of the School Board reported that 25 per cent, of the fathers of children attending a Lambeth school were out of work, and 18 per cent, had no regular work at any time. And a similar report respecting an Islington school, in the Sanitary Record (January 1885), gives 30 per cent, as the number of children whose fathers have 'little or no work'; 25 per cent., therefore, is a moderate estimate for the average projiortion of the very poor out of employment, and, considering the numbers of this class, 15 per cent, is obviously a very moderate estimate for the average number of unemployed tliroughout the country. WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON. 103 London clock -labourei's, silk weavers, and slop cabinet-makers, whose earnings, he knew, often did not exceed 5s., Qs., or 7s. 6(1. weekly ; but his calculations made no allowance for this fact. There is no suificiently large class of, e.g. cabinet-makers, earning 31. a-week to make up for the large class liable to earn 7s. 6d. The number of workers who get materially more than the normal standard of the trade is always small ; the number earning materially less is always very large. The real average wage even of those at work is, there- fore, much below what is set down as the current rate in the trade ; and we should therefore take more than 20 per cent, off a much re- duced total to get at the real gross earnings of the class. ^ But though the statistics of different dates respecting current wages may be all alike misleading as a guide to real net earnings, if they err in the same way, a comparison between them may give a fair indication of the rate of progress. So it is possible enough that the ordinary rate of wages for carpenters, masons, bricklayers, and miners may have risen, as indicated in Mr. Giffen's table.^ The exact average for these trades is 57 per cent. In the cotton trade before the Factory Acts, the employment of children had brought wages down to starvation point, and the fact that this evil, after reaching an intolerable height, was reduced by legislative and other influences, hardly justifies our quoting as progress the change fiom things when at their worst. Mr. Giffen adds a further 20 per cent. to the workman's earnings on account of the i-eduction effected in the hours of labour, but leisure and income are not quite the same, and a retired capitalist does not count as property the profits he might have earned by continuing in business, so I have only taken account of the money gained. G. Comparative Eise of Eent and Wages. In 1840 a report was pviblished in the Joui'nal of the Statistical Society, giving the results of personal visits and inquiiies at over ' In Porter's Progress oftlie Nation, real average earnings are given in the case of a few factories and foundries ; but few employers are willing to give this kind of information, and it may be taken for granted that any who give it do not give the lowest rate of wages. To illustrate the difference between the average wages, estimated in good faith, and the real average earnings, I may quote two pieces of information given by the manager of a Scotch factory employing 2,000 hands. In answer to a question about the women's earn- ings, my informant was told : ' Oh, they earn about 10*. or lis.' It was also stated that the weekly wages paid came to 800Z. or 900?. : say 850/. ; and divide by 2,000, and we get a real weekl.y average of 8iV. &d., or 25 per cent, less than the lowest estimate of the average standard rate. * Progress of the Working Classes, p. 5. 104 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. 6,000 working-class dwellings in the neighbourhood of Tothill Sti^eet, Westminster. It might have been written yesterday as regards everything except the rents of the tenements described. Nearly four-fifths consisted of single rooms, with i-euts ranging apparently from 9d. to 3s. Qd. weekly ; one-fifth of two rooms, rents mostly between 3s. 6d. and 5s. 6d., and an insignificant minority of three aad four rooms, with rents from 5s. 6d. to 8s. 6d. The dimensions of most rooms were twelve feet by fourteen, or less. The average rental for the lot was 2s. lid. It maybe taken for granted that the average earnings of workmen in Westminster were not then as low as 12s. a week, and at that time therefore less than a quarter of the wages went in rent. A somewhat similar inquiry was undertaken by the Fall Mall Gazette a year ago in another part of Westminster (the neighbourhood of Berwick Street, Soho) : 763 tenements were visited in IGi houses, the sanitary condition of which was classified as follows : thirty-three good, fifty-one passable, fifty-six bad, and twenty-four abominable. The rents of these dwellings, half of which were materially unfit for habitation, averaged 4s. 9d. for single room tenements, of which there were 376 ; ^ 7s. %d. to 10s. was the common rent for two rooms, the second often little more than a cupboard. The highest rent given for three- or four-roomed tenements is not mentioned, but 1/. a week for such accommodation is by no means uncommon (I have known of 7s. Qd. and even 10s. being paid for a single room). If we suppose the two rooms to average 9s. each, and the sets of three or four rooms 15s. each, both of which are moderate estimates, the general average rental would be Ss. 2d., or nearly three times as much as that recorded forty years before. Now supposing the average wages of the tenants had risen 50 per cent., say from 18s. to 27s., the available income will only have risen from 15s. Id. to 18s. lOd., or about 20 per cent. The rents in Soho are, it is true, exceptionally high, but, on the other hand, the proportion of skilled workers is also above the average, and I have therefore put the earn- ings above Mr. Dudley Baxter's otherwise questionable figure. This proportion between wages and earnings is not peculiar to the West of London. It is not true that the working classes prefer herding together in over-crowded dens ; and the proof is that where rents are lower than here, the people do not spend a smaller propor- tion of their wages in house-rent, but they occupy more rooms. ^ My ' Widows maintaining a family by their work are particularly numerous in Soho, and more than a third of the occupants of single rooms are described as laundresses, charwomen, and seamstresses. * Inquiries made in twelve schools, of nearly 8,000 children, showed that 26 "6 per cent, were living in single rooms; but that this overcrowding is a WEDNESDAY AFTEENOON. 105 own experience had led me to this conclusion, and it was entix'ely con- firmed by figures kindly communicated to me by Mr. T. Marchant Williams, whose letters to the Times on the over-crowding of the poor will be remembered, and whose position as an officer of the London School Board gives him peculiar facilities for arriving at the truth. In the poor part of Finsbury, to which his inqumes referred, rents are lower than in Soho, and accordingly, out of nearly 1,000 tenements examined by him, nearly two-thirds consisted of two or three rooms, and only one-third of single rooms. The rents ranged from \s. for a single room (a figm-e now unknown in Westminster) to 18s. for three rooms, with an average of 3s. 6cZ. for one room, 6s. for two, and 7s. %d. for three. Of the tenants of these rooms 46 per cent, (nearly half) paid from one-quarter to one-half of their wages in rent, 42 per cent, paid from one-fifth to one-quarter, and only 12 per cent, paid less than one-fifth. The average rental paid was 5s. %d. The actual rent of the Soho rooms was about 30 per cent, of the estimated Avages, and the actual proportion of rent to wages, as stated in Finsbury, cannot give a lower average percentage than that. We thus learn indirectly that the wages of the workers ^ occu- pying these 5s. &d. apartments average about 17s. weekly, of which lis. 6(Z. is available for food, clothes, fire, and all other necessaries. Obviously the increased rent must make as large a hole in whatever increase of wages there may have been in North London as it does in Westminster. Nor is the east more fortunate than the west and north. There is a street full of mangy cottages ofi" Whitechapel E-oad known as Plumber's Row, mainly inhabited by working tailors ; the cottages consist of three chlapidated rooms with a half- underground kitchen and sometimes a workshed in the back yard. The rent of these cottages ornes is 11. a week, and the inhabitants are not worse oS" than their neighbours ; in fact, generally the inhabitants of the slums pay about as much per cubic foot of living room as the in- habitants of Eaton Square. Rents in Southwark are nearly as high as in Westminster, while wages are lower. These rents have a double infiuence in reducing wages, for the employer of labour has to pay at the same rate, and therefore has question of rent was clearly shown by the fact that in the comparatively suburban region of Deptford, at one of the poorest of the schools examined, the percentage was only 13-7, whereas, in three neighbouring schools in the heart of London (Vere Street, Tower Street, and Drury Lane), the percentage was 51'4. In one department of one school, three families of nine persons were reported as occupying each a single room. ' Costermongers, cobblers, tinkers, widows, and itinerant street sellers of all kinds, form nearly half the population of the district to which these figures refer. 106 INDUSTKIAL EEMUNEKATION CONFERENCE. the less to spare for his workers' wages. The tailors who pay IL a week or more in rent are little working masters employing five or six hands, and if the accommodation they get were valued by its quality instead of its scarcity, these rents would be at least halved^ leaving an extra '2s. weekly available for every worker employed. This rent question affects our calculations about the distribution of the national wealth in yet another way. Most statisticians take the rateable value of house property as a guide to the rental, ^ and suppose the working classes to occupy the low-rented houses. Mr. Leone Levi considers with truth that 12 per cent, of the income is a reasonable amount to spend in rent, and he concludes that something like this proportion is approximately spent by the working classes because the estimated rental of houses under 201. comes to something like the same as 12 per cent, on the estimated collective income. But in the statistics of the Fall Mall Gazette the actual i*ental and the rateable value of the tenement houses in Soho are given in twenty cases in which the rental ranges from 234 to 307 per cent, of the rateable value. These are extreme instances, but tenement houses are the rule in large towns, and it is the rule for the rental of such houses to exceed the rateable value — by any amount up to 300 per cent. — as well as for the rateable value to exceed 20^, H. Hourly Hikings. Sir Henry Cole boasts, as an economical public servant, that in 1848 he introduced the plan of paying bookbinders by the hour, much to the satisfaction, he observed, of the Treasury, as it ' gets rid of loss of time and superannuation ' ; and he claims that this example helped to introduce the same system in the building trades. I. State Housekeeping. The most flagrant example of ' political economy ' or State housekeeping run mad, is afforded by the War Office and other departments of the Government as employers of labour. Gentle- men, very likely incapable in their private capacity of refusing to give ' a fair day's wages for a fair day's work,' conceive it to be their duty as public servants to have the clothing of soldiers, sailors, and policemen made by contractors who can only compete successfully with a Government factory by subletting at prices which make army ' 'Work and Pay, 1877. "WEDNESDAY AETERNOON. 107 contract work a by-word as a trade of the destitute. If by the help of the pauper labour of starving women, the contractor is after all able to undersell the foctory, our administrators think it statesmanlike to assume that the factory pays too much ; how little it sometimes pays maybe seen in the Women's Union Journal, Dec. 1884, where a statement that women in the Army Clothing Factory earned 7s. or 8s. a week, is corrected by the account of six weeks' actual earnings, averaging As. 1\d. Of course machinists and other skilled hands fully employed earn more than this. K. Employers' Liability. An appeal was lately made by Mr. Frederic Harrison on behalf of workmen injured while removing a dangerous wall after the fire at Mr. Whiteley's in Westbourne Grove. The contractor by whom they were employed refused compensation, and appealed against a verdict which gave the men 20/. The contractor was very likely in no way to blame for the fall of the wall, and if so, the men injured in rendering a direct service to the public, have no remedy. Even the insurance ofiices would rely on the unhealthy state of public feeling, and not allow Mr. Whiteley to count among his losses through the fire, proper compensation to the men who helped to minimise its destructiveness. Loss or Gain of Lahourers in Rural Districts. By W. Saundees. As it would be impossible to include in one brief paper all the points that must be raised in the censideration of this question, I propose to confine myself mainly to the condition of the agricultural labourers and small working- farmers in a district of Wiltsliire with which I have been personally acquainted for the last fifty years. The wages prevailing in 1835 were 7s. per week, with certain allowances from the parish for men with large families. Meat and potatoes were then half the present price. Bread was the same price as it now is, although it has been much dearer since. 108 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. For a short period the wag-es were reduced from 7s. to 6s. per week, and I well remember how the reduction slackened the slow pace of the labourers, and that they constantly checked each other, saying, ' Anyhow, we are doing enough for a shilling a day.' If the men had been ever so willing to work, it would have been impossible for them to do much, for they were half starved. Sometimes their manifest weakness was such, that when they came in the morning the farmers, seeing their condition, served them out something to eat. But it never occurred to any of the farmers in the neighbourhood that it was as unwise as it was cruel to keep men constantly on the verge of starvation. Better paid men would have done the work quite as cheaply. The cruelty was the more blameable because the farmers had enjoyed many years of great prosperity, and were generally rich. But no thought ever seenaed to enter their minds but that of cutting down wages to the lowest point. I did not know then, but I know now, that the pale-faced men who became ill and died were starved to death. No doctor ever certified to that effect, but such was the case. This general state of starvation was mitigated in many cases by sheep stealing and poaching, and in others by keeping cows, donkeys, or geese on the waste lands in the neighbourhood. None of these things are now possible. Honesty has been both taught and compelled ; the county police have stopped sheep stealing ; the gamekeeper has put an end to poaching ; and the Common Enclosure Acts of 1845 have enabled the landlords to add to their holdings every inch of waste land by which the poor used to benefit. The progress of law and order has been felt by the poor solely in deprivation. The wages now are 10s. per week, as compared with 7s. fifty years ago; but, as a set-off, the poor have lost the game and mutton broth which they used to get ; meat is twice as dear, potatoes are twice as dear, common lands are enclosed. These deprivations swallow up the 3s. per week, and leave them, as far as material support is con- cerned, as nearly as possible where they were, but in other respects their condition is distinctly worse. The depressing WEDNESDAY AFTEENOON. 109 influence of overstrained ' order ' bears very hardly upon a population having few interests in life. Every inch of ground on which children used to play is now taken from them. Even in the market-place their games are often stopped by the policemen ; the most attractive footpaths are closed. Nut- gathering is out of the question, and a child can scarcely gather a blackberry without the fear of a policeman's hand on his shoulder. That this is no exaggerated picture, let me state that a few months since a respectable working farmer was summoned before the magistrates at Devizes, and fined 10s. 6d., with costs, for ' damaging underwoods to the extent of one penny.' The farmer occupied a field adjoining a wood, from which game constantly issued and damaged his crops. Upon taking his cows to feed on a Sunday morning, he stepped three yards into the wood, which was not protected by a fence, and gathered a handful of nuts. Although he had suffered a thousand times more damage from the lord's game than the lord suffered by the loss of the nuts, and although in his young days he would have been per- mitted to gather the nuts witli impunity and without a thought of wrong, yet the farmer was summoned and fined as stated. If boys venture on a game of rounders in a field and a beaver hat approaches, they will huddle into a heap and try to look as if they had been doing nothing. These oppressive restrictions are, I believe, largely respon- sible for the fact that young people leave the country as early as they possibly can, and add to the already congested condition of our cities. In the neighbourhood to which I refer there are a number of small corn mills. The working millers Avere paid 16s. per week fifty years ago, when labourers received 7s. Their condi- tion then afforded a striking contrast to that of the labourer, and they were enabled to save money and provide for a comfort- able old age, which some of them are now enjoying; whereas there is not, I believe, one man who was a labourer forty years ago who is not either dead or has not long since become a pauper. But the prosperity of the corn millers has ceased. The im- 110 INDUSTRIAL REMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. proved methods of making flour have destroyed the value of these mills. The only other class of workers in the neighbourhood are the small working farmers, occupying five to fifteen acres of land, on which they grow corn and vegetables. There have always been twenty or thirty families of this class, who have worked much harder than the labourers, and lived somewhat better. These men have a struggling existence, but almost always manage to pay thf'ir way, and a few of them have saved some- thing. Of late years, many of the large farmers have failed whilst the small working farmers have held their own, although paying two or three times as much rent as the large farmer. Unfortunately, the whole district has been under the control, for several generations, of landlords who have constantly dis- couraged the small working farmer. They have done so under the mistaken and unjust idea that if working-men are allowed to have land on the same terms — or nearly the same terms — as large farmers, labour will not be obtainable. Even now, although the large farmers are giving up their farms, and thousands of acres of laud are actually unoccupied and grow nothing but weeds, the landlords will not abandon their policy of refusing land to working-men on the plea that they ought to remain labourers. They insist upon charging working farmers for small quan- tities of land 3^. and 4,1. per acre, while they are willing to let to large farmers at 20s. per acre. Experience has shown that working farmers, by living hard and working hard, can subsist and pay this heavy rent ; but, of course, they do not, under such circumstances, realise a fair return for their industry, neither can they make suitable provision for old age. Take the case of a hard-working man occupying ten acres of land for thirty years, paying il. per acre rent, he pays at least 251. a year more than a large farmer is charged for the same land. If half of that amount was added to his family expenditure, it would relieve his household from that condition of semi -starva- tion to which they are now subjected ; and if the other half were saved and invested at 5 per cent., it would amount to 848Z. at the end of the thirty years. It must be borne in mind that AVEDNESDAY AFTEEXOOX. Ill each of the small farmers of whom I hav^e spoken has actually produced from the soil the amounts we have stated, but it has been taken from them by a system instituted by landlords for the supposed benefit of themselves and their farmers. It is this system which is responsible for the wretched poverty and want of employment which prevails. The land does not fail to yield a due reward to labour. Laboui'ers in abundance are upon it, and labourers whose only desire is to work — labourers who are content to work hard and to live hard, in the sense of living upon very little ; but the owner stands upon the land, and says to such a man, ' This land which you want shall remain idle unless you pay me 3/. or 4L per acre per annum, and I would rather let it to a large farmer at 20s. than to you at 3/.,' and the land remains idle. For five or six years past thousands of acres of excellent land in the Pewsey Vale has been kept idle under this system — has produced nothing to the landlord, nothing to the farmer nothing to the labourer. Every ten acres of this land will maintain a family in abundant comfort, but the families are driven away, and the land grows weeds to the injury of the cultivated land around it. With what feelings must a small working farmer pay GOl. to a landlord for fifteen acres of land, when the same landlord allows better land to remain absolutely unoccupied ? When land is farmed in the usual manner by large farmers the expenditure upon it for labour does not exceed 30s. per acre per annum, and this is especially the case where, as often of late, three or iour farms have been thrown into one. A large portion of this land might give employment to labour to the extent of 10/. per acre per annum, and it does so under a system of lamily agriculture, where a house is placed in the centre of a few acres of land, and each member of the family finds congenial and healthful occupation. It is useless to say that such things cannot be done for these results are now obtained, and have been for a hundred years past, as we have shown, in many cases, but the proceeds are absorbed by the unjust exercise of landlords' powers for the express purpose of keeping the people in actual slavery. 112 INDUSTKIAL EEMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. There is one circumstance in connexion with the locality to which I refer which has exercised so serious an influence that it would be impossible to omit all reference thereto. One of the largest landowners is the son of a man who purchased an enor- mous quantity of land in the neighbourhood, and after getting- into debt wherever he could, especially to the small working tradesmen in the neighbourhood, he stopped payment — kept all his creditors without a penny for seven years, and then com- pounded for a payment of five shillings in the pound. Many hard-working men, successful previously as hard- working tradesmen, have never been able to lift their heads since that time, but the land remains in the family of the defaulter, and the rents which ought to have paid just debts have been continually squandered in luxury, instead of being employed for justice. This is one instance amongst many of fraud according ta law, and it has a direct bearing upon our subject in this way — when struggling tradesmen are thrown back into the ranks of labourers the working-men are more crowded, and the fair dis- tribution of wealth is prevented by the operation of unnatural laws made by landowners in their own interests. The question we are considering assumes that there has been an increase in the products of industry within the last hundred years. How enormous that increase has been it is not the object of this paper to point out in detail. That the com- munity in general should profit by that increase is obvious, and that the benefit would naturally be universal goes without saying. But so far as the working classes are concerned, in the locality to which I am referring this benefit has been wholly intercepted. They have been entirely deprived thereof by having their industry checked and its proceeds confiscated by the unjust and unnatural interference of those who wield over the working classes of this country a power greater than that exercised by the most despotic government in the world. In no other country in the world does landlordism hold such despotic sway as in our own. The crushing influence which it exercises upon the working classes is shown in the fact that WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON. 113 ihonest, industrious, hard-working men are starving in the midst of plenty. That wages of 10s. per week mean starvation is obvious from the fact that a family of five persons cannot be kept in food alone in our workhouses for less than los. per week. This crushing influence starves our working-men, drives them forth from their native villages, and compels them, too, unwillingly to seek work elsewhere. Thus the whole race of workers throughout the kingdom are subjected to unjust competition and deprived of the wages they would otherwise obtain. For more than a hundred years we have borne this, and during that period the rapid development of manufactures and com- merce has brought a flood of prosperity. We cannot suppose that this prosperity will continue much longer. Great as it has been, we have seen that in reference to purely agricultural districts its influence has been wholly counteracted by land- lordism, and the incubus which landlordism has proved to agri- culture is rapidly undermining our agricultural industry. At the present moment even our villages are supplied with bread, meat, cheese, and butter from abroad, while our own lands are untilled and our own labourers idle and half-starved. Over what extent of country the condition of things which I have descril)ed prevails I do not pretend to state. I have detailed only what I know from personal experience. That it exists over a large portion of the Soutli of England I have good reason to believe. That even a more dreadful state of things prevails in many parts of Ireland I have seen. That Scotland is suffering in a similar manner we all know, and that districts which are now better off will soon be reduced to a similar state there can be little doubt. While all this distress prevails, Wiltshire landlords import fox cubs and turn them loose by the score, to destroy the hen roosts of the poor and lessen their present small chance of getting a living. If there be the slightest justice or common sense in allowing this state of things to continue, I fail to see it. It is useless to say, ' We object to interference ; leave things alone.' The present state of affairs is the result of inter- ference. Landlords have no industrial title to the land, which I 114 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. they never made or improved, and in many cases never saw., Their title is purely legal. Let the Government leave matters alone, and not another sixpence of rent would landlords get. Twenty-five thousand men are now required in Ireland to collect rents, and this number may soon have to be increased. A revolution to bring about justice I believe to be unneces- sary, such as some people are looking for and others evidently apprehend ; but it must be remembered that a revolution has no terrors for those who cannot, whatever happens, suffer more- than they are suffering now. This suffering class is increasing, and has assumed dangerous proportions. It is, I hold, the object of this Conference to discover how a catastrophe which is evidently imminent can be averted, and how a state of things distressingly unjust can be corrected. Skilled and UnsMlled Labour in the Shipbuilding Trade. By J. Lynch. What I have to say on this subject applies directly to the ship- platers and their assistants, commonly known as ' helpers.' The system of work and payment in use between these classes is one which involves a most unfair division of the wages earned, and subjects the helper to many grievous injustices besides the mere disparity of remuneration. The system I speak of is a mixed system of piece-work for the platers and time-work for the helpers, both being engaged conjointly on the same work. The platers being paid by result work at high-pressure speed, and the helpers, although paid by the day or hour, must of necessity keep pace with them. It will be easily understood how a helper who has no special incentive to exertion is made to keep up with the plater who has such an incentive, and I need hardly say that the means by which this is accomplished are demoralising to both plater and helper. They are nominally fellow-workmen, but they are actually taskmaster and serf. Those who are acquainted with shipyard work will know that thpse terras WEDNESDAY AFTERXOON. 115 as applied to plater and helper are not misplaced. To show the unfairness of the division of piece wages between these classes, I will make a comparison of their respective earnings when on piece and when on time. In the recent busy period the helpers' time wage on the Wear was 4.s. per day, and the platers' time wage was 6s. per day. The price for shell-plates requiring six men to work them was at that time not less, but in some cases more, than 10s. per plate. Taking that as the standard price, however, and basing my calculations upon the work done in a fairly well- regulated and well-appointed yard, I find that the receipts of helpers and platers on this work were scandalously dispropor- tionate. Three platers working in company completed 18 plates per day, the gross result in money payable for the work being 10^. Out of this they paid 3s. to a boy, the remainder being left for division between themselves and the helpers, of whom there were twelve — two squads of six men each. To pay each of the helpers his day's wage according to the current rate 3L were absorbed, leaving 5^. 17s. for the three platers. It will thus be seen that for the day's work each helper received 5s., while each plater received 1^. 19s. This I affirm to be a fair illustration of the division of wages on this particular work, between platers and helpers. On other classes of work the disproportion is not so great, but there is no instance in which the plater does not receive at least three times as much as the helper, while in strict justice he is entitled to no more than three-fifths to the helper's two-fifths, that being the proportion usually found to exist between the time rates of each class. The disproportion of earnings I have referred to between mechanic and labourer when on piece-work would be a gross injustice, even supposing the conditions in connexion with an industry allowed full time to be worked. But in the shipbuilding industry the injustice and inequality are immensely aggravated, owing to the pre- cariousness of the employment. Stoppages from various causes are of constant occurrence, and I estimate that in brisk times only four days a week can be worked, while in slack times the average does not exceed two days per week. The helpers' pre- 1 2 116 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. sent rate of wages is 4s. Qd. per day, and I am sure I am correct in saying that the helpers in employment in the North of England at the present time do not average more than 93. a week. So far I have been speaking of stoppages over which the men have no control, but in addition to these there are other stoppages which still further diminish the helpers' chances of obtaining even the semblance of a livelihood. The platers frequently lie off work for purposes of pleasure or dissipation, and sometimes two or three days together are lost in this way. The plater can make up for the loss when he returns, and he does this l)y driving still harder the helpers, who have no means of recovering their loss. The platers will not start work of a morning if there is any sign of bad weather to be observed, or if they cannot see a clear prospect of being able to make what they term ' a good day's work.' Both summer and winter they absent themselves from work during the first quarter of the day very frequently — as often as three or four mornings a week. All these abstentions are a cause of loss to the helpers, for the platers invariably refuse to pay them for lost time. When the plater stops off ' first thing,' the helpers, who are on the ground at six o'clock (or seven in winter time), have to wait till break- fast time, and then start for a three-quarter day, or perhaps for only a half or a quarter day, the wages always being strictly proportioned to the time worked. I will not say that there is not now and then to be found a liberal-minded plater who is willing to pay his men for at least a portion of the time lost through his fault, but such are rare exceptions, and if they do pay their men for lost time, they must do it secretly, to avoid the displeasure of the others. Not to be unjust to any class, I must admit that the helpers are sometimes absent when the platers are present, but this need never be a cause of loss to the platers, as there are always plenty of the helper class on the ground to supply the places of absent men, while the places of the temporarily absent platers are seldom or never filled up. Some results of the vicious system I speak of are very painful to contemplate. There have lately been four busy years of shipbuilding. In that WEDNESDAY AETEENOON. 117 time the platers and other workmen had ample means to pro- vide for the future, but the helpers had no chance to make any provision for prospective hard times. Theii" earnings, seldom exceeding ll. per week, and often under that, were barely sufiBcient to meet current needs. "SVhen the present depression commenced the helpers were already impoverished ; it may be imagined what their condition is now when even the largest earners are destitute. Poverty, from which there is no escape, is not the only evil this system inflicts on the helper. It lowers his self-respect, it cripples his energies, it makes him slavishly subservient to the plater, and, I regret to say, in many cases, disloyal to his own class, and the general effect of it is to degrade him immeasurably in all respects, besides making his work very much more unpleasant than it need be. There is one yard on the Wear where the helpers are paid by results as well as the platers. On the shell-plating at this yard there Avere three platers working in company with twelve helpers, assisting them as at the other yard spoken of. The price here also was 10s. per plate, but it was divided thus : — Qd. per plate for each helper and Is. per plate for each plater. This was not strictly just, as the plater had more than his due pro- portion, but it was a sufficiently near approach to justice to satisfy the helpers perfectly. In this yard, owing to the helpers having a direct interest in their work, they became much more expert than others, and consequently did more work, completing on an average twenty plates per day. This gave them lOs. each for every working day, while to the plater it left ll. per working day — a much more equitable division of wages than that which obtained in the other yard, where the helpers had 5s. Sd. per day and the platers ll. 19s. What is required to remedy the wrongs from which the helpers suffer is, that they should be paid by results whenever the platers with whom they work are paid by results, the pro- portion of the gross proceeds coming to each class to be adjusted according to their respective rates of wages when employed on time. There is nothing to prevent this being done generally excepting the resistance of the platers, and this has hitherto proved an insuperable obstacle. The reason 118 INDUSTEIAL REMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. the helpers were paid by results in the case mentioned is, that the employer took a firm stand in their favour ; but there is not the slightest reason to hope that other shipbuilders will follow this example. As a rule, they care not how the money is distributed so long as the work is done, and whenever a conflict has arisen in respect of this question between the helpers and the platers, they have taken sides with the stronger party. They take this course because in that way the conflict is soonest ended, and their work allowed to proceed. The ship- builders will not move in favour of the helpers, and the platers will not voluntarily relinquish their unjust privileges. There is not the smallest chance, at least in this generation, of the helpers being able to conquer justice for themselves. They have tried to do so more than once, but have always failed, and the recollection of these failures will prove an effectual preven- tive (for many years to come at all events) to their making any further efforts. The chief cause of their failures has been the little difficulty met with in filling their places by importa- tions of men from other districts. These men never know what they are coming to, being deceived by false representations, and when they come, their own necessitous condition usually compels them to remain. This must ever be the case as long as there is a large surplus of unemployed labour in the country. Under these circumstances I know of no way to remedy the helpers' grievances except legislation. Hitherto all remonstrances that have been addressed to the Platers' Society have proved fruitless. If they would consent to meet the helpers by deputation before a properly constituted tribunal, with the imderstanding that after both sides were heard, and the facts of the case were fully inquired into, they would submit themselves to a decision, the matter could soon be settled. This, however, they have always refused to do, and I fear they will do so again, unless the request comes from some very influential quarter indeed. It might be tried, however, and their refusal woidd of course afford a stronger ground for legislation. The wrongs and the injustices I have spoken of must necessarily continue unless they relent, or until an Act of Parliament enforces recognition of the labourers' rights. WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON. 119 Discussion. Mr. Jeans (Secretary, British Iron Trade Association) said he did not think anyone would charge him with hostility to the interests of the working classes, or with any desire to withhold from them their fdr share of what was due to them in that controvei'sy. It was not the first time he had stood alongside the working-men of this country ^\ith a view to helping them in the settlement of disputes with their employers, where he believed that they had a just cause. Although he did not hold a brief for either capital or labour, he felt that a great ceal had been imported into the discussion which was calculated to obscure what he held to be the real points at issue. The workmen^ on the one hand, alleged that their wages were not quite so high as they might or ought to be, and had not risen to the same extent that the capital of the capitalist had inci'eased. This, capitalists, or those who seemed to hold a brief for them, were disposed to deny. A little more than a month ago he read a paper before the Statistical Society, in which he endeavoured to show what were the real difierences in the rates of wages in this country as compared with the leading in- dustrial countries abroad. In the discussion which followed, Mr. George Howell complimented him on the candour with which he had put the case, and did not venture to contradict, on their merits, any of his figures. He had undertaken a great deal of research uith a view to get at the real facts, and the statistics he had put forward showed that the average wages paid in this country had, between 1850 and 1880, increased to the extent of about 40 per cent. It was true that those figures only applied to certain selected industries, and that they were mainly given on the authority of Mr. Ford, the president of the Manchester Chamber of Commerce. But he found on looking at the paper prepared by Mr. D. Cunningham for the present meeting, that the average wages paid in a number of selected leading occupations for a period of something like thirty or forty years very much bore out Mr. Ford's figures. Those figures were extracted from the official records of the Dundee Harbour Trust, and might be taken as perfectly trustworthy. They showed that the increase of wages had been even greater than he had put it at. It was important, however, in dealing with this question, to compare that increase of wages in this country with the increase in other countries, over the same or a nearly corresponding period. The conclusion brought out by his paper was that the average wages in this country over a certain number of leading industries embracing, as nearly as could be ^estimated, one half of the total number engaged in mechanical and 120 INDUSTRIAL REMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. manufacturing indiistries, wa.s in England over 40 per cent, higher than in Germany, and about 60 per cent, higher than in France. In the United States, wages took a considerably higher range than in England. In certain impoi-tant manufocturing States — Massachu- setts, IS'ew York, Philadelphia — which represented, perhaps, one half the industrial population of the United States as a whole, during the interval between 1860 and 1880 there had been an increase of wages in America corresponding to that in this country. But whereas we found that the percentage increase of wages had been practically the same in the two countries, the workman in this country, by virtue of free imports, and other advantages which had accrued to him in the interval, had had his condition bettered to a greater extent than the avei-age working man in the United States, Official statistics issued last year by the Massachusetts Bureau of Labour, showed that the cost of living in the United States had in- creased considerably within the last twenty years. Mr. Saunders had made a statement in his paper which, if unchallenged, was likely to cause an erroneous impression to go forth ; he said that the wages- of agricultural labourers were lOs. per week. He (Mr. Jeans) had had occasion to look into the matter as far as concerned the North of England, and he disagreed entirely with Mr. Saunders. Sir James Caird gave the average wages of agricultural labourers in England in 1850 as 9s. Id., and in 1878 as 14^., and if we looked at the report, recently prepared by Mr. Coleman, for the Royal Agricultural Commission, dealing with Cheshire and Northumberland, we should find that the average wages there in 1881 were over 18s., besides certain perquisites in the way of potatoes, &c. If we took the average throughout the whole country, he believed we should find that it was more than 14s. (No, no.) Mr. Lowthian Bell had recently stated that the result of his inquiiy in the Cleveland district gave to agricultural labour an average weekly wage of 17s. He desired that the way might be cleared to the proper understanding of what had been the real increase of wages, and he woxdd add that the increase in the cost of living in this country, within recent years, had not been so considerable as some of the speakers of the morning; would have them believe. Mr. J. Glode Stapelton (Fabian Society) said he had been acquainted all his life with certain districts of Kent, and there the average in recent years had been 2s. 9d. per day for labourers. However, he did not wish to dwell upon details, but to call the attention of the Conference to a few general considerations, and he would suggest that in endeavouring to find an answer to the question which had been propounded, they should remember one very import- WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON. 121 ant consideration. He meant that if they looked at the two classes they would find an important characteristic distinction between them. The capitalists and employers were, by virtue of their being so, in such a position with regard to both the luxuries and necessaries of life, as to be quite independent of the fluctuations of trade. But the other classes — artisans and labourers— were placed in such a position that any depression of trade, or shifting of trade, might result to hundi^eds of them in the loss, not merely of the comforts of life, but of its actual necessaries. That was a true statement of a fact, and that being so, surely there was but one answer to the question as to which class had the larger share of the benefit. (Hear, hear.) But it might be objected that the second class are in that position of being dependent on the money they earned from day to day by reason of certain qualities in themselves ; that they are thriftless, and do not provide for the morrow; they spend what they get to-day and there is an end of it. But if it were true that that class wei-e not as careful as they ought to be, he would ask whether the other class were as careful as they ought to be 1 Now, as there was the same improvidence in both classes, surely like effects ought to follow in both cases, and it could not be the true cause of the difference between the two classes. Extravagance is capable of being ambiguously taken. A poor woman earning 6s. a week would be extravagant if she spent Is. 6fZ. on a beefsteak, but a man with an income of ten thousand a year would not be extravagant if he entertained his friends at a dinner costing three guineas a head. Looked at fiom the point of view of the community, which was the extravagant person ] We were told that the position of independence of one class was due to their abstinence — that they had abstained from spending money they had in hand. He would ask them to consider what that abstinence really meant. A man, after he had provided for all necessaries, luxuries,, and such ostentation as he chose to indulge in, put by the margin of his income. That was the quality and amount of the abstinence we were asked to approve as the virtue of that class. What were we asked to demand for the other class 1 There were present men whose- wages at the best of times, when woi'k was good and plentiful, enabled them to keep their families provided with the comforts and necessaries of life, and, perhaps, a luxury here and there, and at the worst barely enabled them to provide the necessaries of life, and not always that, and they were asked to demand from that class what was a sort of abstinence quite other than that practised by the former class. Was that fair or just 1 (No, and applause.) Mr. George Hines (Wholesale Co-operative Society) said he was of opinion that there would be one outcome at least of the Conference 122 INDUSTKIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. which would serve a good purpose. It would show that there were working-men who were ready to come forward and state what their earnings were and how they spent them. On the other hand, if they could find anything like an equal number of wealthy men who were getting their thousands per annum where working men were getting their pence, to come forward and tell how they got their incomes and how they spent them, it would be another excellent out- come of the Conference. (Laughter.) He noticed one remark in a paper with regard to what their incomes would be if they wei'e equalised all over the country. He hoped for the sake of quiet and peace that that statement would not be too widely distributed, or he feared that if the great mass of the people got to hear of it — that if the income of the country were divided there would be about 180^. per annum for each family — there would be a revolution at once. (Laughter.) He had been amazed at reading some of the statements of statisticians and economists as to what wages really were, but he thought the working-man would best judge of that; and in spite of the statistics, and though they must agree that the wages had in- creased in many industries, there was no doubt that the increase had been mainly swallowed up by the extra expenditure required to support themselves anything like decently, and sometimes not even that. He did not know what the wages might be in some parts of the covintry, but he could speak of that part of the country he came from — Ipswich ; and to show that he knew something about it, he might tell them that he was president of a large co-operative society, consisting of about 2,000 members, representing about one-fifth of the population of Ipswich. In going into the question of wages there he had found that iron-moulders' wages had risen during the last forty years from 24s. to 275. On the other hand, moulders' labourers' wages had only risen from 14^. to 15s. per week. Smiths' had risen from 24s. to 28s., engine fitters' from 26s. to 29s., boiler fitters' from 24s. to 28s., and in each case the labourers' wages had only risen Is. per week. That bore out the statement that the poor were getting poorer, and there was no doubt that, though a portion of the working classes were getting better off, others were certainly getting worse, for the unfortunate body of laboui-ers who were getting only 14s., 15s., or 16s. per week had also to meet the increased ex- penditure in rent and other things. Here was the expenditure of an engine fitter getting 29s. a week, to keep a family of five persons. He had purposely selected one of the most highly-paid mechanics. Rent 5s., for a cottage (which within his recollection could be got for 3s.) ; Is. for trade society and sick benefit club ; bread and fiour, 3s. 6d. ; meat, 4s. ; groceries, provisions, &c., 6s. dd. ; clothes, WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON. 123 5s. ; doctor for wife and children, 4:d. ; school for two children, ^d. ; social and religious purposes and newspapers, 8(/. ; wear and tear of house requisites, 6d. ; leaving for holiday-making the mag- nificent surplus of 3d. per week. Another gentleman alluded to free education. Working-men were not getting free education at present, and even where they had the Board schools, working- men were paying from at least three som-ces towards that educa- tion. He paid school fees, local rates, and imperial taxes. How bad things must be in some parts of the country was shown by the fact that in Ipswich, which had suffered as little as anywhere from the depression of trade, they had about 800, out of the 4,000 attending the Board schools, who could not pay their fees, and every one of those cases had been closely looked into, so that there was little fear of deception. He estimated that that represented 2,000 people in Ipswich so poor as not to be able to pay for the schooling of their children. But there must be a much larger pi'oportion who were just on the verge of, and ready at any time with the slightest extra pressure to lapse into, poverty. In the expenditure he had given he had not allowed anything for saving, and, although it was said working-men were not so thrifty as they ought to be, in reality working-men were saving to a large extent where they had an opportunity of doing so, — not only by frequent and regular stern self-denial, but by means of their co-operative societies, building societies, and other agencies for thrift and self-help. To these means are to be attributed the improved condition of many woiking people rather than to any great amount of advance in the remuneration of labour, taking also the cost of living, &c., into consideration. In the North of England he met the seci'etary of a large co-operative society, at Jarrow, where there was great distress, and asked him how the society was getting on. He replied that the takings were, of course, much less; and asto the share- capital, the members were drawing out at the rate of 150^. per week, but that sum was keeping many off the rates and from starvation. With regard to the capital employed in the business thei-e was still a surplus of 4,000^., so that the society would be able to stand it for some time to come. This lie thousht showed very clearly that in good times working people were doing their best to provide for bad times. But there would never be ■content until Labour had its fair share of the wealth produced, and knew it. (Applause.) The Rev. S. Headlaji (Women's Protective and Provident League) said he wanted to take exception to the statement which had been made in one of the papers, that Mr. Henry George wished to have the land managed by the State. What he wanted was that the 124 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. whole of the value which the people gave to the land should be taken by the peo2:)le. That the land question was at the I'oot of the indus- trial question, and that they had the right to take the whole of the 20s. value which the people had made he had no doubt. Then there was the statement that those in the room would probably think Mr. George's idea based on injustice. He ventured to think that there- were a large number of persons in the room who felt that the people who by their presence and their very life gave value to the land had a right to have the value for themselves, and to take the whole of the value by degrees in taxes was not an unjust thing. [The Chairman ruled that the discussion of the land question should be confined to- the third day of the Conference,] Major Craigie (Local Taxation Committee) said his attention had been taken by statements in the paper of Mr. Saunders, which, if uncontradicted, might give a wrong impression. He would ofi'er a preliminary but distinct protest against a theory which had been advanced by several speakers, that statistics were altogether unreliable, and that all conclusions should by preference be based on individual sentiments or impressions. Now, statistics were facts collected by many observers from evidence accumulated from many quarters. Individual impressions were only based on the evidence of a man's eyes. He had often heard that form of argument em- ployed in debating economical questions, but it had always struck him that the weakest of all cases was that which was founded on what one man saw, rather than on conclusions reached by the con- centrated evidence of a thousand patient observers. The case of agricultural labourers was eminently one for definite inquiries and definite statistics. He regretted that our country had paid so little official attention to the great question of the remuneration of labour and the exact statistics of wages. He was ashamed to read the reports of other counti"ies, and to think that in a few weeks, fi'om the Government of the United States, we shovild have the most compre- hensive review both of its own rates of wages and those of other countries, collected by the careful observation of the Amei'ican Con- sular Staflf. The Government of this country would have done well to have incurred a larger expenditure in getting direct statistical infor- mation, which was the only basis on which that day's question could be discussed reasonably. There were, however, some statistics avail- able, which, although not all we wanted, ovight certainly to have been studied by the authors of papers, especially Mr. Saxanders. Some fifteen years ago thei^e was a most thorough and exhaustive inquiry into the question of employment of women and children in agricultural laboui'. The Bishop of Manchester, Mr. Edward Stanhope, and WEDNESDAY AFTEKNOOX. 125 many other most important authorities were among the Commissioners •who inquired most impartially into the whole question, which, of -course, touched the labourers' wages and position generally. It would liave been most Viiluable to have referred to the evidence that was taken. We had only to look still more recently at the report of the Hoyal Commission on Agriculture in 1882, which sat for three years extracting information fi"om England, Ireland, and Scotland. He had found in the voluminous evidence of those Blue-books piles of statistics amply bearing out the impression held by one or two statis- ticians as to a much higher rate of wages in agricultuml districts than had now been spoken of Sufficient stress was not laid on the great outlay farmers incurred for labour, and the large share of the gross produce required to remunerate the labourer. Mr. Saunders men- tioned 30*. per acre. But statistics showed that that was a small outlay for cultivating land. He had figures showing that the outlay for manual labour on an arable farm of 420 acres in Norfolk last year was over 40s. per acre. The labour bill on that fiirm was 885^., while the rent was not 650^. There was now a shrinkage in the labour on arable land in consequence of the unremunerative prices of cerejils. He, however, protested altogether against the returns of weekly wages being taken as the standard or limit of the remuneration. Every- body knew that the 10.s\ or 13s. per week that had been named did not represent all the money which went to the l.-ibourer. Setting aside the larger pay of shepherds, Ciittlenien, and superior labourers, the lowest-paid labourer in many cases had a cottage, in others so many bushels of wheat, in othei'S potatoes, in others milk, and in other Oi^ses membei-s of his family earned money, while the extra returns made at harvest and by piecework must be added ; and unless we went ijito all those figures we could not have any real measure of the i-e- muneration of the agricultural labourer at the present time. In the North of England the figures were very different from those of the South. They were of course influenced by other industi'ies ; he would not, therefore, quote the 1 Ss. or 20s. paid as an ordinary week rate in Northumberland. But ]\Ir. Saunders would, no doubt, be surprised to hear that in so purely agricultural a county as Bucks, where there was certainly no gi-eat industriiil competition, the following were the figures taken from a considerable employer's ])Ooks : — In 1874 wages were about 15s. per week in winter, with the addition of milk for breakfast, and 19s. and 21s. in haytime and harvest, or about 33s. per acre ; at present labourers were receiving 16s. a week, or 17s. without milk, which gave about 38s. 3d. per acre. It would certainly be well that some caution should be given to the readers of papei-s that they should place a little less reliance on isolated and exceptional cases, and 126 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. should rather consult the most voluminous and accurate statistics of recent official inquiries, especially those given by Mr. Doyle, Mr. Little, and Mr. Druce, on the Commission of 1882. He hoped that those who wanted to turn labourei-s into peasant farmers would also read Mr. Druce's evidence and statistics on such peasant communities in Lincolnshire, and contrast the position of labourers there with that of the nominal freeholder at the present time mortgaged up to the eyes, always in debt, working twice the hours, with children half-educated, and not doing nearly so well for himself or his family as the wage- earner employed on the large farms of the district. Mr. Ball (National Agricultural Labourers' Union) said perhajjs he ought to apologise for addressing them, but as the condition of the farm labourers had been so much discussed, he felt entitled to- speak as one of them. He observed generally that the condition of the agricultural laboui'er was always more satisfactory to those people who were not in that condition. He considered that he had had a considerable experience in it ; his father was an agricultural labourer, and his mother a yarn spinner. He was himself an agri- cultural labourer until the Association was started with which he was now identified. He believed he knew more about it practically than many of those gentlemen did theoretically, and he would say that, with all their figures and multiplying of figiu-es of income, a large number of the labourers lived bordering on starvation. (Applause.) The last speaker referred to the Lincolnshire labourers. He happened to be a native of that county, and his father had lived there before him. That speaker referred to certain small freeholders who were worse off than the labourers. Did it not strike them that it was very strange, if that were so, that those people had never got out of that position and turned labourers? It struck him that if their position were so mvich worse than that of the labourers, they would have made an effort to get out of it. In his boy days, there were hundreds of such holdings, held by men who worked one or two horses, kept one or two cows or sheep, etc, and it was seldom any of those men went to the parish for relief. When the father got too old to work, the son took on the holding and kept the old man. He contended that the system under which the land was now held had driven those men out, because the large landowners did not desire to see them on the land. He admitted that agents, many of whom have had almost unlimited power in the management of large estates, have done much to abolish small holdings, — he would not say from what motives. But evidently the interests of the small holders were not considered, nor those of the community at large- Something had been said respecting the Boyal Commission appointed WEDNESDAY AFTEENOON. 127 some years ago to inquire into the condition of the working classes employed in agriculture. He never heard that a farm labourer was; on that commission. The very people whose life and being were affected, and who ought to have been fairly and fully repi*esented on that commission, were altogether excluded, and the consideration of their condition was left in the hands of those who did not feel their wants, and did not much care about them. They were told that the repre- sentations made by some of the readers of papei's respecting the average wages of the labourer were totally beside the mark. The question was. Who gave the figures for making the calculation 1 Was it the employer or the labourer? He observed that there was always a wide difference between the two statements, and if we took the- figures of the employer and not those of the labourer, we should ^et a wrong idea of the position of afiairs. He resided at present in Essex, and, after having travelled over the major portion of that county, he found that, estimating from the highest to the lowest the wages did not average more than lis. per week. When farmers estimated the wages they paid, they did not estimate those of the labourers only, but took in the wages of the housekeeper, the stock- man, and the overseer, who all received more, thus raisinc^ the average, and not giving a fair idea of the matter. Some of the employers gave the labourers a little wood, but it was in many cases he knew of scarcely worth tying into bundles. He held that at the present time there were thousands of laboiu-ers in Essex who did not work more than five days a week, and, if they did, they did not get more than 10s. a week for it. Perhaps he ought to calm his feelings a little ; perhaps he spoke hotly. He felt indignant. (Applause.) He could not avoid it when he heard men who knew little or nothing about the labourer make those exaggerated statements. (Applause.) With respect to the working expenses of a farm, he would not enter into the question, but he believed that when a farmer was asked for his labour account, he would give it in a very different manner from that he would adopt when he gave in his income tax return. Some gentlemen suggested that labourers were better off than theii' employers, and they said that many of the farmers were able to escape paying income [tax because they had no profit. He believed that the first 150/. of profit was not taxed, so that that state- ment proved nothing. (Hear, hear.) Perhaps he was not conducing much to the settlement of the question of the remuneration of the labovirers ; but all these matters wei-e involved in considering it. There had been nothing nearer the mark than the paper of Mr. Saunders. The land question, so far as he could understand it, was at the root of the evil There could be no successful manufactures or 128 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. commerce, for any length of time, where agricultui-e was going to ruin ; and until some plan could be adopted by which the land could be brought into pi'oper cultivation, and those who did the work had n proper share of the profits, there could not be peace or safety. It was estimated that in Essex there were 70,000 acres of land lying idle. We could estimate the number of men thrown out of employment in consequence. If any of those labourers asked to be allowed to cultivate a part of the land, they were refused on the ground that they would become too independent. The landlord could not let the land in some cases, because it had got into such a filthy state. In some cases he would not let it because he could not get the rent he wanted, and was unable to cultivate it himself. People during that time were walking about idly and starving, and j'et they were told that wages were 14s. and 15s. per week. Wages had gone down on a,n average Is. per week since 1879 in every part of the country, and in consolation for that they were told that bread and sugar were ■cheaper, and one speaker mentioned marmalade. (Laughter.) It was convenient to dangle that before their eyes when they were asking to have a living in return for their work. He protested against the assertion that the average wages of a farm labourer were as stated, lis. or 15s. per week. (Cheers.) Mr. Stephen Harding (Bedminster Board of Guardians) wished to make a few remarks on Mr. Saunders's paper. He took it that the great object of their meeting was to devise some means whereby the "reat mass of our working classes should be better paid for their labour. If they succeeded, no one would be more pleased than the landowners and tenants of this country. If that paper went forth without being challenged, it would be somewhat misleading. Mr. Saunders said that in 1835 wages were 7s. a week, and that on those wawes the people were starved ; but he would remind him that, as food was then about half the price, the labourers were as well ofi'then as now at 14s. a week. — Mr. Saunders : And much better; that's what I said. — Mr, S. Harding : But we know as a fact that the labourers in constant employment are not now starving, but are fairly well off. When our cathedrals were built, wages were not more than "2d. a day, showing that the question is not the amount of wages, but the amount of food it will purchase. The jiaper pointed out that there was much land in Wilts uncultivated, and not let because of the stub- bornness of the owners. We knew that there were some people in all classes of life wlio had a deficiency in the upper storey, but no landlord would be fool enough to keep his land idle if he could let it. (Oh, oh !) He had some friends in Wiltshire who told him that the land uncultivated instead of being the best in the country was the worst ; WEDNESDAY AFTEKNOON. 129 that if it were divided into plots the people would starve on it, and that those who advocated its division were the greatest enemies of the working classes. He had just been through the United States, and his advice to labourers was, instead of going on to eight or nine acres here, to go to our Colonies, where they could do much better. It was a matter of supply and demand, and he might suggest a way in which men could rise. Every class that existed should be organ- ised into a body. There were many classes in existence, and all necessary, and they should see that there were not more in each class than would supply the demand. Supposing that they tried to fix labourers' wages at 1^., we knew that there were so many of them that they could not get that rate, and so some of them must get something else to do. The sooner they got to understand that the better. The average wages in the South of England were nearer ISs. than 10s. ; he believed they would be found to be about 15s. Dr. G. B. LoxGSTAFF (Charity Organisation Society) said he only wished to call attention to one or two important, but, no doubt, unintentional, inaccuracies in the paper of Miss Simcox, who ti'ied to find the number of poor people in the country from the number who died in public institutions, workhouses and hospitals. As a medical man he must protest against^her assuming that people in that class of life died at the rate of twenty per thousand per annum. Owing to their low wages, bad accommodation, and bad habits, they died at a much greater rate ; probably the rate was twenty-five or thirty per thousand per annum ; that would give about two millions who might be taken as paupers or on the verge of pauperism. There were, indeed, many paupers who died in their homes, but, on the other hand, many persons died in hospitals who were not paupers. These two classes neutralised one another, and he protested against the actual paupers being counted as a separate class. That being so he did not think Miss Simcox could, from the facts she adduced, bring the total up to more than two millions. He maintained that the same two millions were those who mainly occupied the attention of charitable people. They were either paupers or very nearly so, and he protested against another two millions being added to the number. Nothing was gained by overstating the case one way or the other, we wanted only correct figures. It was said that wdth increasing wages and production we had a constantly increasing poor rate ; but every year new charges were added to the poor rate, so that eight millions now spent as poor rate only corresponded with the four or five millions of the first pai-t of the century. Paupers were now much better treated than formerly, both in workhouses, and infirmaries, and in district and other schools. The buildings were better and more costly, and the K 130 INDUSTKIAL EEMUNERATION CONFEEENCE. officers of a sviperior class and better paid ; building sites were more expensive : moreover, the eight milliona referred to included the whole of the expenses of the Metropolitan Asylums Board, a very large sum, mainly devoted to objects that were essentially sanitary. The true test was the number of paupers, which had decreased with a rapidly increasing population. Dr. Charles R. Drysdale (Malthusian League) said that no doubt the question raised recently by Mr. Giflen was a curious and intei-esting one, i.e. whether the working classes or the other classes had gained most of the prodvicts added by industry to the national wealth during the past thirty years ; but the fundamental point for this Conference to determine, in his opinion, was, how can the position of the least skilled worker in this and other civilised countries be made so good as to enable him or his to earn by daily wages a suf- ficiency of all those necessaries of life which will enable him or his to live to an age compatible with the constitution inherited ? At present the average age at death among the nobility, gentry, and professional classes in England and Wales, was fifty-five years : but among the artisan classes of Lambeth it only amounted to twenty- nine years ; and, whilst the infantile death-rate among the well-to-do classes was such that only eight children died in the first year of life out of one hundred born, as many as thirty per cent, succumbed at that age among the children of the poor in some districts of our large cities. The only real cause of this enormous difference in the position of the rich and poor, with respect to their chances of existence, lay in the fact that at the bottom of society wages were so low that food and other requisites of health were obtained with too great difficulty. Now, there was but one cause of average low wages, and to see that cause cleai"ly it was only necessary to compare Hindustan, England, and Australia. Tn Hindustan the wages of an agi'icultural labourer were about 4fZ. a day, in England from 2s. to 3s. a day, and in our Australian colonies from 6.s. to 8s. a day of eight hours' laboui*. Nominally then, the wages in England were more than six times higher than in Hindustan, whilst in Australia they were three times as high as in England, and eighteen times what they were in Hindu- stan. Meat in New Zealand and some parts of Australia was very cheap, 3(7. a pound ; so that, in addition to higher nominal wages, the Australian workman was much better fed than the English labourer. His labour would purchase, for instance, nine times the amount of meat that an Englishman's labour would. The evident cause of these terrible variations in wages, lay solely in the fact of compara- tive pressure of population on the powers of the soil. The Hindu marrying his daughter, because his creed compelled him to do so, at WEDNESDAY AETERNOON. 131 the age of eleven, population was encouraged to increase as rapidly as possible, and hence continual over-population existed in that miser- able country, where pauperism and famine were endemic. New Zealand, being so well fed and so little over-peopled, as compared with England or Hindustan, had the lowest death-rate perhaps in the world, ^.e. twelve deaths per thousand inhabitants annually, as com- pared with twenty-one per thousand in England and Wales. In the same way it was, that the classes in Europe that increased most rapidly were the poorest, and received the smallest average share of the produce of the soil. He had found by interrogating the poor married women at the Metropolitan Free Hospital of London, over the age of fifty, that one hundred married women among the poor classes in London have, on an average, seven hundred and twenty- children, i.e. more than seven children each, whilst the professional classes in France were now well known not to have more than one hundred and seventy-five children per hundred married women, i.e. not quite two children per family. The birth-rate of our own richer classes was now very low. For instance, in Hampstead, a parish of London inhabited by well-to-do people, the birth-rate was only twenty- two per thousand inhabitants annually, as against forty -two per thousand in Sunderland, and thirty-seven per thousand in White- chapel. So that the only chance for the poorer classes obtaining more of the products of manufactures and agriculture lay in their imitating in future the more prudent classes, and having smaller families. No other schemes, such as resettlement of the land, socialism, or emigration, could raise wages, because population would double so fast, if food were only procurable. Hence, the State should discourage in all classes, in all European countries, families exceed- ing four children. The sanction required to enforce such an all- important aim might be discussed, when it would probably be found that trades unions and other combinations for the purpose of raising wages, might easily make the production of those large families, which alone were the cause of the misery arising from low wages, a ground of dismissal from the vmion, (Laughter.) Gradually this dis- couragement might be extended to the Avhole of society, in which case indigence and high death-rates would certainly disappear, and wages in England might eventually command as great a share of food as they did now in Australia. Mr. E. Dyke (Cabdrivers' Society) said he feared that previous speakers had shown a desire to create a war of class against class. He would not have raised a protest against that if the attack had been confined to the large landed aristocracy, because they had in their hands the sinews of war, and were able to defend themselves. £ 2 132 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFEEENCE. Capitalists and employers, especially where they held land, had benefited much moi-e largely than the labourers by the products of labour and industry. If a trades unionist plater got 11. 5s. a day, and a non-unionist helper, who worked as hard, only got 5s. for a day's work, they should increase their wages by combination not by re- ducing the wages of the plater. Mr. William Snow (Cleveland Blast Fvurnacemen) said he wished to say a few woi'ds about the agricultural labourers in the Cleveland district. As one who had resided in the district for sixteen or seven, teen years, and travelled through every portion of it, being personally acquainted with many farm labourers, he would say that the estimate of their wages was false and untrue (Hear, hear.) He did not say that there were no farm labourers receiving 175. a week, but that they were very exceptional cases. If they were to take an average, they would fi.nd it only to be 14s. 6d. instead of 17s. Qd. The district was not an agricultural one, but a mining and iron pro- ducing district, and the consequence was that the little agricultural labour that has to be performed has to be paid at a higher rate than in a purely agricultural district. When Mr. Jeans spoke of the increase of wages in England and foreign countries, he did not tell the whole of the truth. If he had quoted the whole of the text of Mr. Lowthian Bell, he would have told them that, although the wages in England were higher per day than in foreign countries, yet any piece of work would not cost more than the same amount of work anywhere else. Although the English workmen received higher wages tbey did more work for it, so that the work cost no more to produce a ton of iron here than in foreign counti'ies. Mr. Jeans ought not to have tried to make them believe that English labourers were receiving higher wages for shorter hours than his brothers in foreign countries. Major Craigie said they ought to place more reliance upon the figures of the statisticians than upon the word of an individual who came forward and said they were not correct. He thought, if they had personal testimony as to what people are receiving, or the class they represent are receiving, it must be better than the figures of people who had personal motives for not telling the whole of the truth. These statisticians sought their facts and figures from one side only. If they had any repre- sentatives of the labourers' side who could tell them what the wages are in certain districts, that was better than all the figures from the employers' side. Mr. EsTCOURT (Progressive Association) said that according to Mr. Hutchinson's paper, the wages of the coal miners in 1832 were 3s. 6d. per day, and Mr. Gifien made a point a short time ago by WEDNESDAY APTEKNOON. 133 saying that they were 2^. Sd. ; again, in 1871, according to Mr. Hutchinson's paper, the wages were is. 9(7., and in 1876, 5*\ 2d. He found that the strike in South Staffordshire was against reducing the wages from 3s. Sd. to 3s. 4<7. per day. Yet they were asked to rely on these figures. Major Craigie laid great stress on the advantage the labourers got from small additions to their incomes by means of milk, eggs, firewood, &c. If that were so great an advantage, we must consider how much the town labourer had lost by being urbanised. On a large income such small items were not of much consequence, but if a man with a garden, and 15s. or 18s. a week, desired for instance to make a fowl-house, and instead of being able to beg pieces of wood, had to buy all, the items were very serious. When several persons in a family earned wages the whole aspect of the question was altered, there being then several sets of out-door expenses (locomotion, &c.) to allow for, which would materially lessen the apparent earnings. The Rev. H. J. B. Heath (Land Nationalisation Society) said he desired to support all that Mr. Saunders had stated. Humani- tarianism, which had found its exponents in Miss Simcox and Mr. Lloyd Jones, was, he ventiu-ed to think, a far more important side of the question than the dry and conflicting statistics they had had hurled about to-day. With respect to Wiltshire, he could corroborate Mr. Saunders's statements. Near Salisbury there was a manor comprising three farms, one of which, with an area of 2,000 acres, has been unlet for a long time. A large portion of this farm consisted of grazing land, suitable for sheep feeding ; the remaining arable portion was covered with v/eeds. This prevented a tenant without large capital from taking it. The last tenant made a hard fight against bad seasons, struggling also against the incubus of an excessive rental, giving up the culture of one field after another, and finally retiring from the scene as a broken man, killed out of commercial existence mainly by the stress of that which crystallises itself in the word rent. It has been found impossible to provide a new tenant for this farm even with a rental reduced to 10s. per acre. He contended that the nationalisation of the land upon the principles advocated by his society would prove a remedy, and the only effectual remedy, for this disastrous state of affairs. Miss Simcox, in reply, said she had not been as fortunate as Mr. Saunders in provoking criticism. She was, no doubt, audacious to make statistics prove something different from Mr. Giflen, but as no one had been kind enough to set her straight, she hoped they would believe that there was something in her side of the statistical ques- tion. In reply to Dr. Longstaff, she desired to say that her estimate 134 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. of two and a half millions was only approximate, but she considered that the probably higher death-rate in the lowest class would be fully compensated by the mortality, which she was obliged to omit, in prisons, schools, almshouses, and other benevolent institutions, to- gether with the odd 1 GO, 000 that she struck off to give a round number. The total mortality in hospitals was 2*8 per cent, of the whole, and a portion of that did not imply pauperism, for persons of good position went to hospitals for special surgical treatment ; but a majority of those who died in hospitals would undoubtedly pass their last days at home, if the family resources could provide for their being properly cared for. There was another point of view from which one might confirm her estimate of five millions of virtual pauperism ; that was the 25 per cent, of workers unemployed. That did not mean that everybody earned 25 or 20 per cent, less than normal wages, but that 25 or 20 per cent, of them were at one time or other out of employment, and so not earning wages at all. If to this number we added a similar percentage of those who, even when in work, did not earn enough to make any provision against bad times, we could hardly avoid the same conclusion, that a fluctuating fifth of the whole population was to be found permanently on or across the border of pauperism or destitution. One word as to the method upon which the statistics she ventured to criticise had been compiled. The statisticians asked how much a man in good work generally earned in his trade, and then calculated as if every man got as much as that. It was rather the exception than the rule in some trades for a man to earn full wages. The estimates on that score were very difi'erent when given by the employer and the workers. One day, in a Whitechapel tailor's workshop, she was going round with the master. He complained of its being supposed that East End tailors were badly paid. He pointed out one man and said that he got 7s. a day, which made two guineas a week. She then asked how many days a week the man worked, and all the rest of the workpeople in the shop looked at each other and winked. The master said some- times five days (i.e. never six), sometimes four, and sometimes three, and, a young man added, sometimes one. The average was, accord- ing to a well-informed master, about three days a week during the year, so that the tailor's real wages came down at a run from two guineas a week to 21s. Statistics were vei-y valuable and reliable, provided we knew what they were made of. We might trust the Registrar- General's returns implicitly, and the census as far as it went ; but when we saw that the income of millions assigned to the working classes was formed by multiplying such cases as that adduced, there was not much reliance to be placed upon the figures. WEDNESDAY AFTERNOOX. 135 She had been careful not to pile up harrowing instances of women earning sixpence a day. What we had to realise was that our whole industrial system tended to a multiplication of such instances. We were not at present on the right tack. We spent our days of work in producing a state of things which the leisure moments of the philanthropist were utterly unable to correct. If we continued in the way we were going, when our population compared with that of China, we should have a virtually pauper population of 80 or 100 millions. It had been argued that it was not worth while to devise a more equal distribution of wealth, because if the whole national income were divided equally, the share of each individual would be too small to count ; but this was scarcely accurate. As far as she could judge, if it were so distributed, it would add about 10s. a week to the income of each working-class household. That would mean the difference between 55. a week and 15s., between 10s. and 20s., and so on. 26^. a year might be an insignifi- cant trifle to the rich, but to the poor it meant the difference between wholesome luxury and a hard life, comfort and want of common necessaries, possible subsistence and absolute starvation. Mr. Sauxders, in reply, said, with respect to the wages in Wiltshire, he wished they were better than he had stated, but a short time ago he called on a farmer who was paying only 9s. instead of 10s. He asked him how he could have the conscience to offer such wages, and the farmer's reply was that if he told his labourers that for the future he could only pay them 8s., they would say, ' We be very sorry, measter, but we suppose we mun put up wi' it.' That showed the condition of the people in that neighbourhood. One gentleman had said that no landlord would be fool enough to keep his land icUe if he could let it. Unfortunately, when people calculated upon putting a limit to the folly of human nature they reckoned without their host. Last week he saw 1,500 acres of land which had not been cultivated for five years, yet if a labourer were allowed to have 10 acres of that land (at 11. per acre) he would consider his fortune made. Applications for such holdings had been made to the landlord, but the request was refused on the ground that if the labourers had the land the farmers would not be able to get labourers. One gentleman, who had visited Canada, was in love with large farms. But Canada and England were very different. Where the population was sparse, hundreds of square miles were properly occupied by one man for cattle ranches, but, as the population increased, the ranches were divided into lai'ge farms, and large farms into smaller, and as population became dense, much of the land ought to be used for something hke market-gardens, and such would be the case if the 136 INDUSTKIAL KEMUNEKATION CONFEEENCE. landlord did not step in and interpose a charge of three or fourfold, before he would allow land to be cultivated in small quantities. We were asked how could we expect working-men to be well off when they had seven children to keep. He had asked a working-man whether, if he had 10 acres of land at the same rent as a farmer paid for his land, he would be able to live upon it. The reply was, ' Live upon it! I could keep 14 or 15 children, and give 'em all plenty.' (Laughter and applause.) And he knew perfectly well that the man could do it, and would do it, and would become a splendid customer for the manufacturers. (Hear, hear.) The artificial re- strictions which were placed upon land were placed there for the purpose of giving undue advantage to the capitalist. They had that effect, and were the chief cause of these inequalities which now existed. THURSDAY, JANUARY 29, 1885. MOENING SESSION. DO A]S'Y REMEDIABLE CAUSES INFLUENCE PEEJUDICIALLY (A) THE CONTINUITY OF INDUSTRIAL EMPLOYMENT OR (b) THE RATES OF WAGES OF THE WORKING CLASSES? 071 the Existing Modes of Distribution of the Products of Industry in the Chemical Works, Collieries, Iron- stone Mines, and Blast Furnaces in the North-East of England. By I. LowTHiAN Bell, F.R.S. President of the British Iron Trade Association. The circumstance of my having been engaged for upwards of forty-five years in an industrial life may, I trust, be accepted as a justification for claiming a few minutes of the attention of the present assembly. Lord Macaulay, and since his time many other writers of eminence, have proved conclusively that the la,bouring man at the present day has had his position greatly improved as com- pared with that of his predecessors during the last century. Not only in recent years has almost every article of food and clothing been greatly reduced in price, but there has been a steady and substantial increase in the rate of his earnings. As regards the first of these propositions, the large importa- tions of grain and of animal food, which may be regarded as of a permanent character, afford a reasonable hope of the in- habitants of the United Kingdom being fed in the future at a moderate cost. As regards the second proposition, I may take 138 INDUSTEIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE, as an illustration of the rise in wages that, in a large locomotive building establishment in the North of England, the average increase between the years 1850 and 1874 amounted to 41*73 per cent., and in 1881, a period of great depression, they were 28*70 per cent, higher than in 1850. Besides this, the introduction of the nine hours' system brought up the cost of labour to the employer in the two years of 1874 and 1881, as compared with 1850, to 51*73 and 38*70 per cent, respectively. Other examples will be adduced in proof of the general character of this change in the income of the working classes in my own neighbourhood, about which locality I wish more par- ticularly to speak. Notwithstanding this admitted improvement, which is by no means confined to the North-eastern district of England, I am quite willing to allow that there are many cases which may appear to, and no doubt do, justify the inquiry you are met to consider, viz. 'Is the present system or manner whereby the products of industry are distributed between the various persons and classes of the community satisfactory ? or if not, are there any means by which that system can be improved ? ' By personal inquiry as well as by the study of writers, both British and foreign, I am satisfied that the earnings of many among the labouring population of this country, as well as else- where, are of such nature as barely to suffice for the necessaries of life, leaving no margin for what may be regarded as its com- forts, much less its luxuries. You are now invited to consider ' what are the best means consistent with equity and justice for bringing about a more equal division of the accumulated wealth of this country, and a more equal division of the daily products of industry between capital and labour ? ' It is not necessary to spend any words in proof of the opinion that the question just quoted is one which has fre- quently been asked by the workmen themselves. This is suffi- ciently evinced by those occasional conflicts between capital and labour, which almost invariably are accompanied by embarrassment to the one and by distress to the other. THURSDAY MOENISG. 139 In the present, as in all other similar problems, we must not, however, shut our ejes to the difficulties which beset its solution, otherwise we may aggravate the evil our endeavours are intended to cure. Quoting again from the documents which have been issued by the Committee, I find it stated that ' wealth, luxury, and extravagance among the few, accompanied by poverty, misery, and want among the many, is at once a great evil in itself, and a great danger to the Commonwealth.' Xo one, I think, will venture to controvert the truth of this abstract proposition, but I must dissent from what I fear is meant to be a too general application of its terms to the actual facts of the case you have met to discuss. I have, therefore, endeavoured to select instances, within my own personal experi- ence, to show that there are, and have been for some time, many very earnest attempts made to effect an equitable ' division of the accumulated wealth of the country, and of the daily pro- ducts of industry between capital and labour.' Further, I have little doubt that when ' poverty, misery, and want are felt among the many, wealth, luxury, and extravagance are not so prevalent among the few,' as seems to be inferred. To some extent it may be said the very reverse of this last proposition has been exhibited in the history of the chemical works of the United Kingdom during the last seven years. On the Kiver Tyne alone there are, or were, annually used in the manufacture of soda and its cognate branches above 250,000 tons of salt, nearly a million tons of coal, and in all nearly two million tons of mineral substances, worth nearly a million sterling. Almost the same amount of money was paid to 19,000 workmen engaged at the chemical works themselves, a number which therefore does not include the labour at the mines, or that paid for transport by sea and by land, &c. &c. When it is remembered that the make of soda, &c., of the Tyne is only considered to be about 25 per cent, of the entire pro- duce of the United Kingdom, it is no exaggeration to say that this branch of the chemical trade is one of national importance. Now, during the last twenty-five years or thereabouts, the wages paid in these chemical works, according to my own know- 140 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNEEATION CONFEEENCE. ledge — and I speak from twenty-one years' experience as a soda maker — have been increased 37^ per cent., while, during the same period, the average value of the products has declined to the extent of 40 per cent. I do not pretend to say that improvements in the manu- facture itself, and changes in the price of raw materials, to some extent, may not have mitigated the very heavy losses which infallibly would have overtaken this branch of industry under the circumstances described. The actual condition of the trade, however, may be inferred from the fact that on the Tyne alone thirteen establishments have been broken up and sold as old material, accompanied by a reduction of 24 per cent, in the quantity of soda, &c., produced on its banks. ^ I will not invite you to suggest a remedy for this lamentable state of things, because I am too well convinced that you would be unable to apply it, and this for the following reasons. Concurrently with the ruin which has thus been threatening to overwhelm the chemical manufacturers, other branches of industry in the North-eastern district of England were more or less prosperous, and the men engaged in these were earning high wages. Iron shipbuilding was one of the fortunate group. From one builder I obtained a return of the average earnings of his men, who worked 313 days in the year to which his figures applied. The chief men received over the whole of this period from 8s. 9d. to 12s. lO^cZ. per day, and among these there were ten who made 25s., and thirty other men who were paid 20s. per day. At the rolling mills engaged in making the iron plates for the shipbuilders the furnacemen were paid 12s. 8d. and the head shearers 28s. 3^d. per day. The least experienced of the chief rollers received 17s. 5d., and the best 40s. lid., for his day's work, the average receipts of fourteen men employed at the rolls being 27s. 8d. per diem. It has already been stated that the mechanics in the North of England in a large engine-building establishment had re- ' Recently a process for making soda has been introduced into this country considered to possess great advantages in point of economy over the old or Leblanc method. The new or Ammonia process, as it is called, is too new and too limited in extent to have materially affected the general trade. THUKSDAY MOENINa. Ill ceived an increase in their wages amounting to from 40 to 50 per cent. You will now easily understand that such earnings as those mentioned above could not fail to affect the price of labour in other branches, just as the better-paid men, who soon learnt to mine the Cleveland ironstone, a comparatively recent discovery, compelled the neighbouring farmers to increase the wages of their farm servants.' But it happens that in the chemical works a large number of artisans is employed, differing but little, if indeed at all, from those engaged in shipyards, in iron works, and in engine- building factories. Of course, however depressed the soda trade was, a bricklayer demanded the same pay for building a furnace for decomposing salt as he would have received for constructing one for heating ship-plates. In like manner, whether a steam- engine was doing duty for the chemical manufacturer or for the ironmaster, the men who built or repaired it were to be paid the same rate in both cases. Such examples as these became necessarily the forerunners of that general rise in the price of labour mentioned as having prevailed all through the chemical works in the neighbourhood of the shipyards and rolling mills. It is, perhaps, only when we come to consider the wao-es question of our country in its relations with the price of labour in foreign nations that we become sufficiently impressed with the intricate nature of the subject. The possession of abundant beds of cheaply- wrought coal and ironstone, of skilful workmen of great endurance, and of a fleet of merchant vessels more numerous than that of all other nations combined, entitles Great Britain to be considered as the shipbuilder of the world. In recent years, however, we have seen Norway, a country which has to import the whole of the coal and iron required for building a ship, entering the field and competing successfully with the British firms, with all the advantages Nature has placed within the reach of the latter. This perhaps unexpected result is entirely due to cheaper labour. According to one return I have received, tlie workmen in a German shipyard are paid about 60 per cent, of the current ■ Vide Appendix, p. 148. 142 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. wages paid in the North of England. This fact is not put forward as an expression of the actual difference in the cost of a given amount of work, because, as will hereafter be again referred to, the better-paid English workman is, generally speaking, more efficient than the foreigner. So far, however, as Norwegian competition is concerned, the cost for labour on an iron vessel of 1,500 tons dead weight capacity is, after paying the freight on the iron and coal emplo_yed, 8501. less than that paid in our own country. This information is given on the authority of Mr. Eaylton Dixon, the experienced and well-known ship- builder of Middlesbrough, and when it is considered that it applies to an amount of wages which, in 1883, exceeded a mil- lion and a half of money paid in the British building yards, it is not easy to over-estimate its importance. Previous to the introduction of Free Trade measures in this country, and indeed for some years afterwards, the differences between the earnings of the workmen in the United Kingdom and on the continent of Europe were invariably set down to the cheaper price of provisions, abroad. During the forty years in which I have visited the Continent for studying its progress in the manufacture of iron and its various branches, I have witnessed a marked change in the cost of food there, but, instead of troubling you with my own figures, I will seek to confirm this statement by the observations of other writers. M. Chatelant, of the Statistical Bureau at Berne, alleges that in Switzerland between the years 1840 and 1850 the prices of provisions had advanced 75 per cent., and in some cases 100 per cent. Between 1861 and 1872 there was a further rise of 30 to 40 per cent. M. Vuillmin, a large coal-owner in the North of France, informed me that in the Pas-de-Calais the increase in the cost of articles consumed by his miners had increased aa follows : — Butcher meat . . . 157 per cent. Butter 102 „ Potatoes . . . . 107 „ Shoes 106 „ Coarse blue cloth for their clothes 71 „ THUESDAY MOKNING. 143 Shortly, it may be said that all the evidence I have received in Austria, Belgium, France, and Germany goes to prove that the cost of living has been notably augmented in these countries, while, with our Free Trade measures, it has sensibly been diminished with ourselves. Under such a change of circumstances on the Continent it is not to be wondered at that wages should have risen there ; and accordingly, with coal selling at the same price, miners' wages in France rose in ten years about 17^ per cent. The earnings of the men engaged in our British collieries, and, indeed, in our iron works generally, did not follow an opposite direction, although, as has been stated, almost every article of domestic consumption is now much cheaper than it was five- and-twenty years ago. On the contrary, there has been, as I have shown, a steady and in the end a very considerable addition to the wages paid to our workmen. Not only is this the case, but from authentic figures in my possession, I will prove that ' the division of the accumulated wealth of this country ' has been very much more in favour of the workmen than has been the case with Continental nations. In illustration of this I will submit the actual earnings of the coal miners at a Scotch and at a Westphalian iron works. To these I have added the price of pig iron in Scotland, which may be considered as the ruling factor in determining the rate of wages. ^ Tear Price Scotch pig iron Earnings Scotch Colliers Eaniiiigs Westpha- lian Colliers. 1869 53/3 3/6f per day 2/4-92 per day 1870 54/4 3/9 2/6-72 „ 1871 58/11 4/6 2/8-16 „ 1872 102/ 7/0* „ 2/11-74 „ 1873 117/8 9/11 „ 3/3-29 1874 87/6 7/2 3/3-72 „ 1875 65/9 6/4 3/ 1876 58/6 4/8 „ 2/8-77 „ 1877 54/4 4/li „ 2/5-16 1878 48/5 3/2 2/3-36 „ According to these figures the percentage increase on the wages paid in 1869 was as follows : — ' The miners in Northumberland and Durham earn much higher wages than the lower figures in the Scotch scale of prices. 144 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNEKATION CONFERENCE. 1870 1871 1872 1873 1874 1875 1876 1877 1878 Scotland . '] 52 26-3 97-0 78-3 101-4 497 30-9 15-2 S Increase. Decrease 2 rii-1 l\ 5-4 WestphaUan J 6-2 11-2 23-6 36-2 37-3 24- 13-3 0' For the sake of greater distinctness I have prepared a dia- gram in which the centre horizontal strong line exhibits the fluctuations in the price of Scotch iron, the highest the varia- tions in Scotch wages, and the lowest line that of the West- phalian miners. It would only be wearying you to no purpose were I to enter into a lengthened comparison of the earnings of British and foreign workmen generally, because the daily pay to each would be only misleading. Partly owing to the more extensive use of labour-saving appliances here than abroad, and largely owing to the greater amount of work turned out by our better paid and therefore better fed people, the actual sums paid in wages afford no index to the real cost for labour on a given article. Having due regard to these disturbing influences I have satisfied myself that in those objects of iron and steel where workmanship notably exceeds that bestowed on a rough material like pig iron or even steel rails, we must not be surprised that upwards of 300,000 tons of girders, railway axles, spring steel, &c., are imported into Great Britain, chiefly from Belgium and Germany. Further, we must, at the present price of labour with us, be prepared for a continuance of that increase in our importations which has been observed in recent years. By almost universal consent the policy of Free Trade has been declared as not being an exclusive article in the creed of either of the two great political parties of these realms. With- out offence to either, I therefore may be permitted to say that, until we are ready to adopt the policy of taxing the food of the people — a most undesirable step in my judgment — we must con- sent to allow the farmer to purchase, without hindrance, those tools of iron and steel where he can obtain them cheapest and best. The competition which the British iron trade has to meet on its own shores is, however, comparatively an insignificant branch of the whole question, for against the 300,000 or 400,000 tons of iron we import in one form or another, more THURSDAY MORXIXa. 145 than 5,000,000 tons of pig iron are required for the purpose of providing for our exports, equal to about 60 per cent, of our ■entire make. In former times the iron export trade of the world was almost exclusively in our own hands. In the year 1882 the exports from different countries in pig, malleable iron, steel, and in machinery were as follows : — From Great Britain .... 4,828,803 tons The Zoll Verein . . 1,134,103 tons Belgium . . . 529,464 „ France . . . 137,741 „ United States about . 200,000 „ 2,001,308 tons. Thus it would appear that for every 100 tons contributed by this country to supply the markets of the world, 40 tons are now sent out jointly by Germany, Belgium, France, and the United States ; and further, it may be stated that tlie export trade of our foreign competitors is one of a steadily increasing character. Altliough the language of the circulars put forth in con- nexion with the present movement is silent on the difficulties the capitalist has to encounter, I feel satisfied that neither the originator of this meeting, nor the committee, under whose auspices it has been summoned, are less indifferent to the dangers which surround the employer, than to the privations which beset the employed. I am not going to illustrate any argument upon the relative position of the two sides by a reference to the present depressed state of the iron trade, when many furnaces are idle, my own firm having five in this state out of fourteen, and when it is notorious that its prosecution brings no profit to the iron- master. What I do wish to point out is that the wealth and luxury of the capitalist are sometimes estimated on a wrong basis, when contrasting them with the earnings of his workmen. If we were informed that the average earnings of all the people engaged in working the minerals, and smelting pig ii on therefrom, were 4.s. per day, and that the proprietor of the 146 TNDUSTEIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. mines and furnaces received 25,000^. a year as his share of the profits, it might be supposed by many that here was mani- festly an unequal ' division of the accumulated wealth of this country.' In order to earn his 25,000L, however, something like 15,000^. ought to be set aside to meet the interest on the capital expended on the mines and furnaces. This is an inevitable and a reasonable charge against revenue, because the money might be laid out in such a way as to entail little or no anxiety to its owner ; indeed, it might be invested in foreign lands, so as to be beyond the ken and criticism of his own countrymen. This last method of dealing with British capital would, of course, have the effect of withholding it from the power of employing British labour. Out of the balance of 10,000L which falls to the share of the smelter, have to be paid, depreciation of his mines, the cost of which must be returned by the time the minerals are ex- hausted, interest on his working capital, and profit for carrying- on the business. It would further appear that this sum of 10,000L belong- ing to the capitalist only represents 7'14 per cent. (Is. 5d. in the pound) on the wages paid for labour, so that an increase to this extent to the workmen's earnings would sweep away his profits, properly so called, as well as the depreciation fund, and a further addition of 10*71 per cent, to the workmen's pay would leave the owner of the establishment without a penny to meet any of the charges enumerated as coming against it. In this estimate it has been assumed that 10,000L a year would be enough to afford a profit to the smelter, and to form a sinking fund to redeem the capital expended in sinking the pits, &c. In many cases, however, nearly the whole of the 10,000?. might be absorbed for the latter purpose alone. I have now enlarged, it is hoped not unnecessarily, on the advance in a material point of view of the workmen in two of the great industries of this nation. I would wish to add a few brief sentences as to their progress in one of the moral aspects of their position. During my earlier experience as an iron manu- facturer, a not uncommon way of settling differences of opinion THUKSDAY MORNING. 147 respecting the price of labour was by strikes of longer or shorter periods ; or, if this disastrous course was avoided, great bitterness of feeling and mutual distrust were engendered between the parties concerned. For the last ten or twelve years, the men have selected representatives of known intelligence and loyalty to themselves, but who at the same time are, it is believed, persons distinguished by the moderation and fair dealing of their views. Upon occasions of importance these representatives meet the council of employers, when the subjects under discussion are debated almost uniformly with calmness and good feeling. Necessarily sometimes very strong differences of opinion prevail, as must occasionally be the case between the buyer and seller of any commodity, but hitherto these have been reconciled without any interruption to those friendly relations which ought to subsist between employer and employed. Much of the credit apper- taining to this desirable state of things, is due to the able men who fill the official posts in connexion with the men's unions. As a result of this amicable feeling, a sliding scale of wages has been agreed to, wliicli is regulated at the collieries by the price of coal, and at the ironstone mines and blast furnaces by the price of pig-iron, and so far this system has worked satis- factorily. As a further indication of the good understanding which prevails between the employers and their men in my neighbour- hood, may be adduced the fact, that ]Mr. David Dale, of Darling- ton, a member of one of the largest firms of mine-owners and iron-masters in the world, has been accepted by the iron-workers as umpire upon five different occasions in the settlement of wages. In conclusion, I have only to express a wish that your delibera- tions may prove beneficial to all concerned, and as a preliminary step, it seems to me, as it will no doubt to yourselves, that a thorough investigation of all the facts of the cases you may have to consider will be the most likely means of promoting the objects you have in view. L 2 148 INDUSTRIAL REMITNI-KATION CONrEEENCE. APPEXDIX. 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During the course of the discussions Mr. J. S. Jeans mentioned my having quoted in anotlier place 17^. per week as being the earn- ings of the agricultural labourers in Cleveland. This statement being thereupon questioned by Mr. Snow of that district, I have made it my duty to make further inquiry on the subject. A gentleman who has charge of one of the largest propex-ties in Cleveland writes me as follows : — THURSDAY MOR>'[NG. 149 * I can state that the average wa2:es for working foremen are about — ' 175. Qd. per week in money. Is. OfZ. „ in value of skimmed milk allowed. 5(7. ,, for potatoes. 3s. Od. „ for cottaoe and gai-den. 21s. 11(/. „ in money value. 'Second-class men IGs. per week and same privileges, equal in all to 20s. 5d, per week, * Plough lads 19 years of age 17/. a year, and their food and lodg- ing — 12s. per week — equal in all to 18s. 6d. 'All other married fai-m labourers are receiving from 18s. to 19s, pet week, and find their own houses. 'Women are receiving Is. per day through the year, with 2s. a day during harvest.' The above figures are confirmed by information received from one of the largest farmers in Cleveland. The Unionist view of Possible Remedies for Prejudicial Influences on Hates of Wages and Continuity of Employment. By W. Owen, Editor of the ' Staffordshire Knot.' To seek a remedy for the ills that afflict the country's industrial life is a worthy effort, and one that is sure to be useful, as, not- withstanding all that it endures, that life is too vigorous, too much under the control of a self-preserving common sense, to adopt as remedies schemes that would tend to increase its evils. Growth to better things must be encouraged from its present healthiest phases. Even working-men are, to a great extent, ' masters of their fates,' and many of the faults that tell against both the continuity of their employment and their rates of wages are in themselves. Trades unity has proved itself a valuable force in securing for the wage-earner improved con- ditions of labour and better pay. The industries in which the operatives have built up solid, enduring organisations — that 150 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNERATION CONFEEENCE. include the majority of the men who follow those trades — show a higher level of wages, and even less fluctuations in employ- ment than those in which unionism is weak or non-existent. The former trades yield to the workers nearly all that is possible to them under the present relations of capital and labour ; while the disorganised often obtain less than what is called the market value of their labour through not unitedly asserting their claim to it. Combination of the units of labour is a necessity, if working men would possess equality in bargaining with employers. Two classes of operatives are prominent in shirking this duty of trade protection, namely, those who are too vicious in their habits to think of the claims of their craft, and those who, while possessing intelligence, skill, and individual thrift, care little for the general welfare of their order, and keep aloof from its trade movements. Labour has equal cause to regret the degradation of the one class, and to blame the desertion of the other. Working-men have need to keep and use all the intelligence they can to leaven and guide them. When some among them fight for their own hand, the weaker men of the class are left an easier prey to the greed that is displayed by some employers, and in the end these weaker links are the real measure of the strength of the labour chain. No devotion to any other good cause can justify a working man who neglects to do his part to improve the industrial position of his fellows. If all who seek to escape from their responsibilities to their class would help, development from within would increase, and working-men would not only be better off in their present position as an employed class, but would the sooner elevate themselves into a more honourable partnership with capital, or become their own employers. It is the loyalty to their order of the most intelligent of English trades unionists that principally gives the otherwise dumb multitude a voice of their own against wrongs endured, and that enables them to effec- tively claim rights that belong to them. Mr. Gladstone, in 1867, speaking to some representative trades unionists, said that was the most desirable condition for the working classes that would enable its worthiest members to THUESDAY MOKNING. 151 most easily rise out of it ; but it has always appeared to me that that would be the best condition that would bring the greatest good to the greatest number of those who must remain in the ranks of labour, so inducing some of the best to be contented in the ranks. The growth of a feeling that the position and life of labour is both dignified and lionourable would have the best results in lessening the desire to scramble out of the class, and in keeping in it capable helpers who, if they leave it, too often join with others in trampling upon their own order. This feel- ing would no doubt grow but for the insecurity of the work- man's lot, through the irregularity of employment and the uncertainty of the rates of pay ; but it is an anomaly which needs correcting, that men should find it more advantageous to leave the ranks of the producers to join the already too large army of non-producers. The organisations of labour are not without fault that they do not, as a body, seek to remedy this by taking up the labour question more broadly. The fact is, the aims of trades combinations are too narrow, limited too much each to their own trades. The Trades Union Congress has won com- plete legal freedom of combination, and it ought now to put in practice the idea of trade federation. The real identity of inte- rest between workmen of all trades must be acted upon, for only the general elevation will ensure to each branch of pro- ducers ' security of the wages tenure,' viz. the following of an employment at just rates of pay, without fearing the competition of an outside army of underpaid labour. My contention, there- fore, is that, by the completion and extension of scope of their labour organisations, working-men can do much to remedy many of the causes which influence prejudicially both the conditions and the continuity of employment, and the rates of wages. I am further convinced that, with this increased and concen- trated strength, they would not always be content with regula- ting wages, and with purchasing their necessities unduly taxed by the present cost of distribution, but would aim to apply their energies and accumulated funds to the perfect unity of capital and labour in productive and distributive co-operation. Wealth would then remain, to a larger extent, in the hands of the people, and a greater level of natural demand would be 152 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. maintained, with the consequence that trade would experience much less of the winter of depression and more of the summer of prosperity. Though contending for more union among working-men, I should prefer to see fewer strikes, and believe that the strength and discipline of the former would ensure the latter Strikes necessarily interfere with the continuity of employment, though they sometimes win better wages ; but equitable arbitration has often brought this advantage without the loss and consequent misery of a trade conflict. But even Boards of Arbitration have sometimes failed to retain the confidence of the operative class because of the great difficulty existing on the workmen's side of ascertaining the real facts and figures of tlie state of the trade concerned. When the awards of umpires have been based upon unverified figures furnished by employers, a very reluctant obedience has been given by the workmen to the decisions against them, and the arbitration machinery has been discredited. Workmen, in such cases, have a right to claim the fullest information concerning the position of the trade which their skill and labour sustains. This could be obtained, and many other advantages to both the partners in production, by the formation of Boards of Industry composed of workmen and employers, each representing a complete organisation of their own side. Many a trade conflict would have oeen prevented if the trusted leaders of labour had known independently of, and previous to, an attempt to reduce wages, that the state of trade warranted a revision. Of course I am now speaking mainly of trades in which the rates of wages rise and fall with selling prices. These Boards of Industry, properly organised and conducted, would be capable not only of regulating wages more satisfactorily and equitably, but also of advancing the best interests of the trades represented by promoting the technical education of the workmen, and the suggestive faculty of the operatives as to improved modes and processes of production might be fostered and utilised by these boards. The friends of the working classes deplore the slow progress made in the practice of co-operative production and industrial partnership. One cause of this is the THURSDAY MOENIXG. 153 little knowledge possessed by the mass of operatives in the business of their trade, that knowledge being mainly limited to their own manipulative work at the bench. From the merely selfish capitalist standpoint these Boards of Industry will be objected to because they would enable workmen to know too much for the continuance of the present relations of capital and labour ; but at least the idea may commend itself to those capitalists who favour the principle of industrial partnerships, to which these boards would easily and naturally tend. One of the principal causes that influence prej udicially both the continuity of employment and the rates of wages is the application of labour-saving machinery. The artisans of Eng- land are too intelligent to contend against such cheapening of production, as they know the result has been beneficial to man- kind ; but many of them think it is a hardship and injustice which deserves more attention, that those whose skilled labour is often superseded by machinery should have to endure all the loss and poverty, through their means to earn a living being taken from them. If there is a real vested interest in existence which entitles to compensation in some form when it is inter- fered with, it is that of a skilled producer in his trade ; for that skill has not only given him a living, but has added to the wealth and prosperity of the community, and neither the inventor, the capitalist, nor the public at large have a complete moral right to absolutely take from him all his interest in the trade which he has followed. If such Boards of Industry as I have suggested existed, it ought to be within their province to regulate the application of new mechanical contrivances to their trades, giving the workmen at least some share in the labour-saving. As it is now, enormous fortunes are reaped by a few moneyed men, who first apply the machine to supersede labour, in the end certainly benefiting the public, but mean- while starving the men whose skill had previously been con- sidered part of the nation's richest inheritance. I do not think that this regulation of the application of inventions to industry in the interest of producers as well as capitalists would retard such development, but rather the contrary, for workmen themselves would be stimulated more to exercise their talents 154 INDUSTRIAL REMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. in this direction when they knew that they, and their class, would share in the immediate advantages. Surplus labour has, certainly, a most prejudicial influence both upon the regularity of employment and the rates of pay. This exists to some extent when trade is moderately good, but when it is depressed, as now, the cry of the unemployed in this country for work and food is pitiable. Recent events prove this. The remedies, without discussing population theories, are the employment of more people on the land at home, and State-aided emigration to our colonies. ' Why were these people born to trouble us ? ' is the cry of some economists. The reply of the out-of-work poor, and of those only partially employed, through the crowding of labourers, is : ' Surely we have as much claim to be helped from the national funds, so that we may earn our living, as Egyptian bondholders, whose investments have been protected by millions being spent and lent for the purpose.' A great national measure of colonisation would not only relieve the glut of labour at home but in time repay the cost to the nation, by turning those who, by their competition for work, lower the value of labour, into future customers for our home manufactures. I do not think there would be any great difliculty in finding the right men, willing to leave their poverty behind them, if the Government would decide to establish them in the colonies. A fraction of the money that has been spent in useless wars, and a portion of the national income that is misused in finding pensions and places for the rich, would, employed in this manner, confer a great advantage upon the struggling labouring class. If some of that English capital was used for the purpose, under a State guarantee, that is invested abroad. Englishmen would be directly benefited in the use of that capital which their own labour originally assisted in producing. Some people will say that it is not the proper function of Government to interfere in such a matter ; but in the future it will be found that the first obligation of the State will be to the masses of the people. Flesh and blood now do not merely represent work, but actual power ; and the bread-and-butter question will have to be considered and practically dealt with THURSDAY MOR^'ING. 155 by the statesmen of the future. Our Legislature has hitherto been among the slowest to move of our national machines, where the people's welfare has been concerned. Its greatest triumph — the abolition of the taxes on food — was brought about by a starving people's revolt against its previous unjust enactments ; its greatest reforms have been the tardy recognition of political rights that have always existed. The power of the privileged few to hinder proposals to aid the common people, whose energies have made the nation great, has been shattered, -and the helpful hand, to enable the toilers to fight the battle of life with the fewest artificial drawbacks, will have to be extended. The conviction is every day growing stronger that the land of our nation is not yielding all that it is capable of producing in food for its own people. A great number of them should find a living by cultivating it, and then a greater number of artisans will find employment in supplying the English tillers of the soil with manufactured goods. More regular work and higher rates of wages must result. The existence of a single acre of Avaste land that is capable of profitable cultivation is a national reproach, in the face of our enormous pauperism. The land of the nation should in future do a larger part in bearing the national burdens and in producing wealth. There is, however, a sense in which more evil is done by the misuse of land, or its products, than by the non-cultivation of it. More than 2,000,000 acres — equal to the area of the counties of Kent, Surrey, ^Middlesex, and Berkshire — are needed to grow the grain to manufacture the 134,000,000^. worth of liquor consumed in this country annually. ]Mill says ^ the legitimate employment of the human faculties is that of compelling the powers of nature to be subservient to physical and moral good,' but here we see enormous waste of human energy and of food, a terrible misdirection of human effort, that tells naore adversely than any other single cause upon both the continuity of employment and the rates of wages. In the fifty years from 1830 to 1879 the total amount spent in drink, after adding interest to the principal sum, reached the astounding total of 13,461,000,000^., which is more than half as much 156 INDUSTEIAL KEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. again as the whole capitalised value of all our national wealthy which Mr. Gififen puts down at 8,500,000,000^. The yearly cost of drink to the nation is 200,000,000^., or one-fifth of the national income. Reducing the significance of these figures by one-half, as a concession to those who contend for the moderate use of drink, it is still clear that if only the other half had been diverted into the legitimate channels of trade,, both more employment and more wages would have been the portion of the working classes. Now that the people have com- plete political power, this greatest of their industrial enemies must be dealt with, and the practical mode of grappling with it is to throw the responsibility of the trade directly upon the people, by giving them the right in any locality to vote for its abolition or continuance. Let it, then, be brought clearly home to the working classes that the man who spends a large portion of his earnings in drink is an enemy to the community, by being a cause of bad trade and poverty to others, as well as to himself, and then the country will not long have the service of so many throats in the raising of a revenue by practices which mean the squandering of its wealth. At present all that is best in the life of the nation recognises this as the giant social and industrial evil of our time, yet statesmen seem afraid to attack it. Let the task be given to the people. Town after town,, district after district, will then free themselves from the fatal facilities for making their inhabitants, not only foes to their own labour and wages, but also destroyers of the moral health of the nation. Rates of Wages and Combination. By J. Mawdsley. The objects of this Conference are to contribute in a more or less degree some light on tlie question of whether the various classes of the community obtain a fair share of the products of their industry, and what, in the opinion of those who may take the negative, are the best means of obtaining that result. The THURSDAY ^lORNING. 157 •subject is one that has been discussed in one form or another almost since mankind first made their appearance upon the earth, and has probabl}' had devoted to it more scientific skill and brain power than any question of modern times. Under these circum- stances I have not ventured to address you with the impression that I could lay before you any new ideas, or even put old ones in a new shape ; all that I hope to accomplish is to set before you as clearly as I can the views I myself hold, in common with thousands of Lancashire factory workers. The subject above referred to is capable of considerable subdivision, and the particular points I [have been requested to speak upon are — 1st, the continuity of industrial employment, and, 2nd, the rate of wages. I may dismiss the first part of my subject in a very few words, for the reason that in the cotton trade we have no com- plaints to make on the point. Although sliort time has at rare intervals, but only then in isolated cases, made its appearance, we may, for all practical purposes, say that since the American civil war no system could have given greater regularity of employment than has been the rule with factory workers so far as the regular working of the mills is concerned. I am fully aware that other sections of the great army of toilers have not been in the same position, but seeing that all the leading industries of the country are represented here, it would be a piece of unpardonable assumption on my part were I to give any advice on this point, as tlie conditions and require- ments of the textile trades differ so much from those of most other occupations. Seeing, then, that in the cotton trade we have little to complain of so far as regards regularity of employment, I may now turn to the question of wages. Without going into minute subdivisions, there appear to me to be four broad systems on which a man may sell his labour, assuming, of course, what is now in England almost universally the case, that he is paid in cash ; and they are : — 1. Where the workman stands alone and offers his services to the highest bidder. 2. Where he voluntarily joins with others to produce finished 158 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. articles, or do other kinds of work, and receives his proportionate share of the profits in place of, or in addition to, his weekly- wages. 3. A compulsory social system whereby every person born into the world would be expected to perform a certain amount of work, the results of which would go into a common fund, from which every person would be entitled to a livelihood. 4. The system by which the men in every trade combine together to prevent undue competition forcing- down wages below a fair rate in depressed times ; and for securing, when trade is prosperous, a corresponding improvement in their position. Taking the first, we may roughly assume (as the exceptions were so few as only to prove the rule) that the working classes of England were in that position at the beginning of the present century, and as a matter of fact the majority of them remain so yet. It is held by many able thinkers that it is the proper and natural condition of the labourer ; but we do not judge a system by the rule as to whether it will fit in with a cleverly worked out theory of natural laws, but by its results on the workman himself. Adopting this standard, it has been a complete failure. When trade is brisk and the demand for workpeople exceeds the supply, its faults are not seen ; but when the reverse is the case we know, to our cost, what starving men and women will do. The result of this is a fluctuation in wages, which is the bane of our class, as when a family have been accustomed to having from the whole of its members and spending, say, 40s. per week, and are reduced to an income of 30s. per week, it is not often that the ordinary rank and file can come down, and in the hope that matters will soon get back to their old standard, they run into debt, and in many cases hamper them- selves for the rest of their lives. Although the actual money obtained is less, I consider it better for a family to have 35s, per week for 50 weeks in the year, than 40s. for 25, and 31s. per week for the other 25. In the first case they know what they have to depend upon, and, unless they are depraved, they will act accordingly. But not only does the system of each man acting for himself tend to irregularity in wages ; it also THUESDAY MORNING. 159 prevents him getting- so good an average ; as when there is a surplus of labour in the market the price goes rapidly down, whilst in the reverse case it only goes up slowly. Time will not permit me to illustrate these various points, but cases will, doubtless, occur to most of my hearers. The second system I have noted may briefly be termed ' productive co-operation,' which, for my present purpose, does not include distribution, further than the term will apply to the articles manufactured. This form of working has much to recommend it, but in the present state of society (and it is that with which we are dealing) it fails to satisfy all the parties concerned. If a large centre of population be taken, and a workshop be started on mutual principles, with a carefully selected staff of workmen, it might, and probably would, be a success in industries which were almost, or nearly, confined to our home trade. In industries depending largely for their prosperity on exportation of its products, with its correspond- ing fluctuations in profits, it is almost certain it will (as it has repeatedly done in the past) break down. The experiment has been tried in the cotton trade, and so long as the operatives received the current wages of the district, supplemented by an occasional bonus, matters went smoothly along ; but when profits vanished, and they were asked to assist in making up the losses from their wages, they declined. It might be urged that if the workmen themselves were the capitalists, this would not be the case ; but this, from the very nature of things, is impossible. A spinning-mill requiring a capital of, say, 70,000^. would not employ more than about 200 hands, and of these, probably, about 60 might be heads of families. Assuming they were all of a saving disposition, there is no need to state that they would not possess the requisite capital to build and work the concern. Capitalists, in the form of outside share- holders, would therefore have to step in, and as in the past they would in the future strongly object to pay above the current wages in good, without a corresponding advantage in bad, years. Where the workman is a small shareholder he attaches much more importance to his weekly earnings than to his quarterly dividends, and if one has to suffer he prefers it 160 INDUSTRIAL REMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. should be the latter ; and if we add to this that the great bulk of workmen are not and do not wish to be investing share- holders in the concerns that employ them, we have ample ground for the assumption that co-operative production does not offer a satisfactory solution of the difficulties existing between capitalists and workmen. The next method is one which is what I understand to be formulated by the Socialistic party. I have read several of the works issued by the leaders, but I am far from being sure that they will accept my brief description of their aims ; but I can- not interpret them in any other way, when I find them pro- posing to take over the trading, banking, shipping, railway, and all manufacturing and other enterprises, which are to be managed by the people, who will appoint their own overseers and superintendents, &c., and in which everybody has to be found full employment, under what it is assumed will be satis- factory conditions. This is a glowing picture, but I have not yet seen their proposals for dealing with the idle, the thriftless, and the vicious. Were it possible at one stroke to adopt the system universally throughout the world, without inflicting in- jury upon anyone by the change, we should in a generation be precisely where we are to-day. The strong-bodied, the strong- willed, and the intelligent portion of the community, backed up by tlie steady-going members of the rank and file, would occupy the influential and, as a consequence, remunerative posts, whilst the idle, thriftless, and vicious classes would, as at present, fill our gaols and poorhouses. Were it adopted in one country alone, say Grreat Britain, we should soon be in the posi- tion of being a nation of shopkeepers without customers, on account of tlie immensely increased cost of production. The idea could only be a success when the highest possible ideal of human nature was universally prevalent. It is scarcely neces- sary to say that the present generation need not make any arrangements which may be required when that time arrives. The last proposition to which I shall refer for securing the labouring classes the greatest benefits they can derive from their work is — to put it in a manner which all will at once understand — trades unions. It is possible that in supporting THUESDAY MOENINa. 161 this as the best means for obtaining the end referred to, I may- be accused of supporting- the ' shop ' ; but when a man is placed in an official position to support views which he has previously advocated all his life, I fail to see that he should afterwards be debarred from expressing his opinions. As previously hinted, I have not sought to go deeply into the arrangements pro and con. on the points raised, as with the limits imposed upon me that would be impossible ; I have therefore contented myself with giving summarily the views held by intelligent workmen in the cotton trade, and in saying that ' combination ' is the nearest approach we can obtain to a perfect system, I am merely stating what we regard to be a simple truism. I am far from saying that ' unionism,' as adopted by the various trades, is per- fect, or that we have — taking workmen all round — got near to what we may attain to. We are, however, slowly but surely working upwards, and in the principle I see the possibility of abolishing all pauperism and poverty which reaches the starving- point, always, of course, excluding the classes who can never be made to work. In any occupation in England the proportion of respectable unemployed hands, as compared with those in work, is easily ascertainable. To this may be added a certain proportion for sick, and an additional number to represent old people, incapacitated for work ; and when this is done, what is there to prevent the whole of the workers in that trade paying such a weekly sum as would cover the allowances required to prevent the persons above referred to from sinking into pau- perism ? It may be urged that all the workers in a trade could never be induced to join such an Association, and this I admit ; but those who refused would just be the parties who would object to join in any arrangement which necessitated their working in harmony and on the same lines as their fellows. All the elements which could possibly render a movement successful are there ; they themselves would have sole control of their contributions, whilst at the same time they have before them examples of brilliant success which no other system can lay claim to. Cotton spinners have probably more difficulty in providing for their out-of-work members than any other class of workmen. M 162 INDUSTKIAL KEMUNERATION CONFEEENCE. The system by whicli two lads are employed as assistants to every man makes it self-evident that there would, under the most favourable circumstances, be a large amount of adult surplus labour. When to this is added the fact that the increasing con- sumption of yarn is provided for by improved and larger machines, without any increase in the number of men employed, the truth of what T have just stated becomes more clear. The cir- cumstances in which the cotton trade is placed prevent any alteration of this system, and the result is, that hundreds of our operatives have to take to other occupations after reaching man- hood. This difficulty on the part of our men in obtaining work when once thrown out more than counterbalances the advan- tages accruing from the regular working of the mills ; but as every spinner in the trade has the option of insuring himself against such contingencies, he gets little sympathy if he fails to avail himself of them. Coming again to the question of how wages can be affected by the principle of combination, we find even better results than in the unemployed, &c., department. We are told by advocates of other systems that workmen do not get more than half the profit on their productions, and I have heard of cases in London where shoemakers have had to turn out a finished article from a proper quantity of leather, whilst his price for the work and the raw material combined did not reach one-third of the retail price in the saleroom. Can any one, however, say that these illustrations represent the actual facts in those industries where the workpeople are properly organised ? Trades unionists have been called the aristocracy of labour, and have been accused of selfishness on the ground that, having obtained all they wanted, they refuse to give others a lift up. What we have done can be done by the working classes throughout the kingdom if they will adopt the same means, which are the simplest that have yet been formulated. I have just referred to the share of profits obtained by work- men (and when using the term ' workmen ' I should like to be understood as including workwomen) in our well-organised bodies. Taking our own trade of cotton spinning, I should be cowardly were I to hesitate in acknowledging that, whilst we THUKSDAY MORNING. 163 are not doing as well as could be wished, jet, excluding a few exceptional cases, we have dm-ing the last eight years had, on the whole, nothing to complain of, when put in the balance against the return capital has received during the same period. Not only has our unionism gi-eatly contributed to this result, but where the employers have had the good sense to frankly recognise it and adopt an equitable basis for settling disputes, they are now almost a thing of the past, and we are glad to concede to the Oldham Master Cotton Spinners' Asso- ciation the lead in this matter. Should any dispute occur in the mills covered by this Association, the secretaries of both sides are communicated with, and they, together, visit the mill and make the requisite observations, after which they give their decision, which is considered by both sides as final. The result of this system is, that strikes as to the conditions of work, i&c, at individual firms are practically unknown. In a trade such as ours, which is exclusively worked on the piece-price system, the advantages of such an arrangement are incalculable, both in securing gi eater regularity of wages for the workpeople and production for the employers ; and it is to be lioped that employers in other parts of the manufacturing districts will ere long follow so good an example, and thereby remove any reason for the strikes which are still of constant occurrence. It may be expected that I should add a few words on the subject of what should be the amount of a labourer's weekly wage, and how it should be arrived at. I may lay myself open to the charge of not having thought much about it, but to my mind it is a very simple (question. There can be no arbitrary rules laid down, and such expressions as that ' a family ought to have what will comfortably maintain them ' are worse than useless, as some families would take double the amount required by others. I consider that the remuneration of a working-man ought to be the utmost that orderly and lawful means can compel capital to pay. It may be argued that this course will lead to a constant state of industrial warfare ; but I answer that if it does, capitalists alone will be to blame. If employers will step down from the pedestal on which the bulk of them stand, and in place of acting as masters simply ii 2 164 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. consider themselves in the light of tradesmen, who are in the market with a view to arranging on equal terms the price at which they can purchase labour, and are willing to concede the same right of investigation that they claim and exercise them- selves ; in a word, when as a class they are willing to follow the example of the Oldhami Employers' Association, we shall have little trouble on the score of strikes. Such a system would not prevent variations in the rate of wages, but were the hints I have previously given adopted, and a good understanding arrived at, this, combined with the magnitude of the issues involved, would have a powerful influence in steadying both sides. I have now gone over the ground which, at the outset, I set myself the task of covering. Eapidly I may have travelled, but not too fast, I trust, to have made myself clear, and I may summarise my position by saying that I have no faith in universal State organisation of labour. I believe that co- operative production is good in principle, and may commend itself to a few people and in a limited number of occupations, and as such may be a factor in the improvement of the masses ; but if we are to permanently raise the standard of the working class living to a respectable position, we must first and foremost remain a law-abiding community, give every encouragement to capital to settle in our midst : and if this is dene, and our workpeople will only organise themselves as they ought and can, they will be able not only to provide for the ills and accidents of life, but also be able to see to it that capital does not take a single penny which cannot, with reason, be proved to belong to it. Discussion. Mr. J. Burnett (Trades Union Congress ParHamentary Committee) said that he was a workman and a trades unionist ; he was not there to attack capitalists either individually or as a class. They were met to discuss a system which he and his colleagues believed to be bad, and to see if it were possible to strike out a new idea which would lead to the establishment and the gradual development of a better system. In some respects labour might^be termed the modern Midas, for every- thing that it touched it turned to gold. Unlike Midas, however, it THURSDAY MORNING. 165 never suffered througli any surfeit of the gold it produced. It was also a noticeable fact, although no allusion had been made to it by capitalist or statistical speakers, that all the advantages that had been effected in the position of labour during the last half-century had been gained by the fights of labour to obtain what it believed to be its rights, and the labouring classes still had to fight to retain their hold upon what they had gained. This fact ought not to be lost sight of, because it was one of the elements in the position of laboui' which afiected continuity in the receipt of wages to a material extent. Much had been said about the increase in the productive power of the country, but figures failed to show what that increase had been. Although it was quite certain that the inci-ease had been attended with gi-eat benefit to the community and to humanity at large, at the same time it had intiicted considerable suffering upon the class whose labour bad been displaced by mechaniail improvements. Unfortunately, as civilisation progressed, and the means of production were increased out of all proportion to the requirements of the world, the number of suflerers wixs most likely to be a continually increasing class. Therefore, as Mr. Owen had suggested, some means ought to be devised by which labour should obtain itsfair share of the increased power of production which improved machinei-y brought to the world. The inventor or the capitalist made a fortune in a few years, and could retire from trade, but the labour which made the invention a success or produced profits for capital was not placed in any better position. If time would have allowed, he should like to have spoken of the relation of laboiu- to invention and to capital, which was re- ferred to in the paper of Mr. L. Bell, whose figures also he would have criticised. Among things that affected continuity in rates of wages was the exercise of class influence in Parliament. The wealthier classes had continually exerted themselves to defend their own inte- rests in Parliament, and in some cases they had used their influence to retard the progress and oppose the interests of the working classes. Last session the Shipping Bill of Mr. Chamberlain had to be with- drawn on account of the pressure of the shipping associations ; and for similar reasons Mr. Chamberlain's valuable Railways Bill failed to pass. The late Postmaster-General introduced a Bill designed to effect some reforms in the Post Ofiice Savings Bank. It was possible that some amongst the working classes might be able to save more than 30^. a year, and might wish to have more than 150^. in the bank, and therefore he proposed to raise these limits to 50^. and 300^. ; but immediately the banking interest in Parliament brouglit such pressure to bear upon Mr. Fawcett that he was obliged to withdraw both pro- posals, and then the labour interest brought such pressure to bear 166 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. ujion him for eliminating the two best clauses of the Bill that he was obliged to withdi-aw it altogether. Here are so many instances of the direct opposition in Parliament of class selfishness. The interests of the working people were disregarded by the bankers, who desired to retain in their own hands as large an amount as possible of the capital of the country. We knew that one great cause of the want of continuity in employment was that there were fluctuations in trade, and periods of prosperity brought large demands suddenly. In many trades these were met by working overtime. Every man who works overtime four quarter-days takes away a day's work from another man. If twenty men work a day and a quarter instead of a day, they do the work of twenty-five men. This involved a considerable dis- placement of labour, and although it might be unavoidable in some cases, yet, by night shifts and by employing relays of men, it was possible to produce the required quantities of goods, and such arrange- ments would provide better employment for the whole body of work- men. He was afraid that we went in too much for the production of quantity; we were always talking about quantities, and comparing our quantities with the quantities of other nations. We had better — manufacturers and workmen — go in more for quality, as a policy that would be better for workmen, for employers, and for humanity at large ; and it might retain for us a share of the prosperity which seemed likely in the prevailing competition to slip away from us. As to the division of the increase of wealth in the last few years the most striking figures had been quoted. It was said that from 1868 to 1879 the increase of wealth had been 242 millions, and of this increase 99 millions went to labour and 143 millions to capital. But to the increase of population labour contributed 97 per cent, and capital 3 per cent. ; yet labour received only 41 percent , and capital received 59 per cent. This seemed to show that the increase of wealth during the last eleven years had not been equitable. What they had to con- sider now was, not whether the position of the working man had been improved, and whether he got more wages now than he did fifty yeai's ago, but whether there had been that improvement in the position of workmen that they had a right to expect. Everything had been progressing, and we believed the world was better than it was fifty years ago ; therefoi'e it was not to be wondered at that wap;es had increased and hours of labour deci-eased ; it would be monstrous if the position of the worker had not improved. In Mr. L. Bell workmen recognised not only a man of ability, but also one of natural kindness of heart, and therefore they were glad to welcome him, as a capitalist and an employer, on a neuti-al platform on which these ques- tions were to be discussed. Mr. Bell had eiven some figures relatinsf THUESDAY MOENING. 167 to the chemical trade. Of that trade at one time he had some know- ledge, and he recollected the balance-sheet which was issued by Mr. Allhiisen, a chemical producer, when he was desirous of transferring his successful chemiail manufactory, which had made him a millionaire, to a limited liability company. That balance-sheet would show a state of things different from that described by Mr. Bell. Mr. Bell and he were associated in the settlement of a dispute between chemical operatives and employers in the beginning of 1875. At that time the condition of the workers was almost worse than that of any class of labourers in the country. Not only were they ill paid, but they worked amid surroundings which were incompatible with the enjoyment of physical health. Since that time the wages of the workers were stated to have risen 35 per cent. How was that to be accounted for 1 The dispute referred to was between the Newcastle Chemical Company and their workpeople. At that time the Company had adopted all the im- provements in the manufacture of soda, and they could have produced sufficient soda to supply the wants of the world. Some other manu- facturers still conducted their business in the old ways, and had not got improved plant. The result of the arbitration was that the workmen of the Newcastle Chemical Company had their wages re- duced about 1 per cent. One agreement of the arbitration was that there should be an adjustment of rates on the jJi-inciples laid down in all Tyneside works. Mr. L. Bell unfortunately was not associated Avith him in the subsequent arrangements with regard to those old- fashioned establishments. In the readjustment of wages in those concerns some of the Avorkmen were found to be so underpaid that an advance of 50 per cent, had to be made in order to bring them up to their proper position. That accounted to a large extent for the 35 per cent, increase referred to by Mr. Bell. It also explained the disappearance of those small and old-fashioned firms from the field of chemical operations in the north of England. As to the pi-ice of food, that was a question altogether apart from the relation of work- man and employer. The question was not how much or how little the workman could live upon ; that was a false and bad argument, the tendency of which was to bring the workman down to the lowest point of subsistence. The question rather was, w^hat was the skilled labour employed entitled to 1 The 6gures as to the wages of miners in the north of England might have been fairly stated ; but what was the position of the miners fifty years ago 1 They were not then organised for the purpose of obtaining adequate I'emuneration for their labour as they are now. In Westphalia there w^as no such organisa- tion, and therefore it was unfair to say, as Mr. Bell had done, that wages were so much lower in Westphalia than they were in England 168 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. or Scotland. The fact that the comparison had been made carried ■with it an important lesson for workmen. Labour has had to fight for all it had gained in the past, and it would have to fight in the future until a better system was devised. liCt workmen then join organisations to promote their own welfiire, to maintain the position they had gained, and to secure their further advancement in the future. Mr. W. G. BuNN (Hearts of Oak Benefit Society) said it had been made clear that statistics might be prepared and used in such a way as not to be entirely trustworthy, and therefore pei'sonal ex- perience in trade matters was more valuable than second-hand in- formation. He wished to speak from experience in reference to the subdivision of labour among artisans atid mechanics, the influence of this subdivision upon the rates of wages, and upon the moral and social status of workmen. He referred particularly to two trades carried on mainly in the metropolis, viz. cabinet making, and the making of musical instruments, chiefly pianofortes. A great many of the men employed in these trades had almost entirely ceased to be artisans in the real sense of the word, in consequence of the sub- division of labour. Originally, a cabinet-maker was a man who could produce almost any piece of furniture you named ; but in the modern sense of the word he was a very different person. The trade was in some workshops so subdivided that often he was very little more than a labourer, in the sense in which that word was used in other trades. Instead of a man being competent to act as an artisan, he was often only able to produce one particular article of furniture, and sometimes only a portion of that article was committed to him. The result was that men, instead of having to learn trades, were content 'to pick up' enough to earn a precarious living. In the pianoforte trade, in which this subdivision was carried even to a gi-eater extent, apprenticeship was almost entirely abolished. It was a cruelty to any lad (often committed in ignorance) to apprentice him to pianoforte making for a period of seven years. It was a cruel waste of time. What would an apprentice learn 1 He might go to the shop of one of the largest manufacturers in London, and learn only a very small section of the trade indeed, the knowledge of which could be acquired in a comparatively short time, say in one or two years. To his knowleuge there were men working in some shops who were employed in no other way than in simply cleaning off and preparing for the polisher. To be confined to such mono- tonous work must have a material effect upon the rate of wages, and also upon iho intellectual capacity of the workers. If you cramp a man's intelligence in one direction you cramp it in all. If a man is THUKSDAY MOENING. 169 content to live on wages which he can earn without the exercise of intellectual faculties, he is often unfitted to be a citizen, and dis- qualified for other walks of life, and indeed spoiled all round. The ^flfect of this upon rates of wages can be easily understood ; the men who are able to work only in certain particular and limited branches of trade are those who are most fiequently out of employment. The other day he met a fellow-workman who had been out of work five or six weeks ; the trade had been fairly busy, and three or four men were wanted, but not in his department. The consequence was that he was walking the streets when he might have been working if the trade had not been so subdivided. This man had served seven years' apprenticeship in one of the leading shops in London, and they had turned him out a * finisher,' utterly incapable of turning his hand to any other department of the trade. Another result of this sub- division was the introduction of ' piece-work,' with its attendant evils of slaving and scamping, which at the present time would describe the condition of a great portion of the pianoforte trade. The intro- duction of piece-work often had the effect of encourtiging bad work and underpaying. When a price had to be fixed, the fair average workman was not taken as a criterion. In every shop there were slow workmen and quick workmen, and very often the slow work- man turned out the best work, but frequently the time of the quick workman was adopted as the criterion by which the price was fixed. The natural consequence was that the slow man went to the wall. The quick man would be able to earn dos. or '21. per week, while the slow man, who often did better Avork, would earn only 255. or 30s. This was the case in many shops in the metropolis. It was all very well to point out the evil, but it was much more difficult to find a remedy. He believed that combination among the workmen was one of the most effective remedies. In the trades to which he had referred, combination, in the form of trade unionism, was weakest. In the building trades combination was much more complete. The needed remedy could be applied slowly but surely in promoting a better knowledge of the trade, and in a better diffusion of technical instruction. Nothing was more likely to benefit the condition of the workman in the future than to make him a better man himself. If he were made a more competent and a more worthy man, he would command better pay ; and if his work were done in an intelhgent and scientific way, it would be moi-e profitable to the man who performed it and to the employer too. If in this technical education you gave a man a better insight into the principles of his trade, you would do much to remedy the evils of which he had spoken. There were hundreds of men in the musical instrument trade who had not the 170 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. slightest knowledge of the principles upon which the instruments- were constructed. If a person, about to select a pianoforte, sought the advice of a man employed in making pianos, the probability was that the purchaser would be deceived by the advice that would be given him by the ill-informed mechanic. Organisation was important on account of the great influence it might exercise socially. It was a matter of much regret to him that, in workmen's clubs, political objects had been thought of, while intellectual and social objects had been almost entirely ignored. (No, no.) His opinion had been formed from personal knowledge and observation. A great improvement in the management of these clubs would be the establishment of technical classes for men employed in various trades. Such classes did not exist to any great extent, and the fact that where they had been inti^oduced they had not been found to answer was a fact to be regretted. By perseverance these clubs could be made to exert a great influence in the future in improving the position of workmen, and in improving their knowledge of the trades in which they were employed. Mr. Bradlaugh, M.P. (Land Law Reform League), said that Mr. Bell had accurately remarked that any comparison of the daily pay of the British and the foreign workman would be misleading, and in making that remark he was speaking of the result to the employer. He would suggest to all who considered the matter from Mr. Bell's standpoint, that the comparison Avas also absolutely misleading if you disregarded the position of the workmen. You have to take into consideration their habits of life, and the cost of living to the workmen in each nation. The traditional, and. he might almost say the necessary standard of living in this country was more costly than was the standard of living in the countries to which Mr. Bell had referred. This had been illustrated to him by his three journeys in the United States. The habits of life of the bulk of the Germans there were less costly than those of English labourers in the same trades; and the Germ; ins lived up to Avhat seemed to be to them a higher degree of comfort than English labourers, on the same or even lower wages. It was for our working men to consider whether it was possible to diminish the cost of living without decreasing the standard of comfort and without decreasing the condition of health necessary for efiicient labour. It was generally admitted that in the southern countries of Europe, such as Italy and Spain, labour was not so well fed as in this couniiy, and therefore it was not so productive. Mr. Bell had said it was pleasant to reflect that disputes between employers and employed had been amicably settled by boards of conciliation and arbitration ; but no one knew better THURSDAY MORNING. 171 than Mr. Bell the diflSculty there was in these arbitrations in obtain- ing reasonably exact statistics on which decisions could be based. There could not be any fair arbitration satisfactory to the men until we had bureaux of the statistics of labour, similar to those which had existed for seventeen years in Massachusetts, which had been estab- lished in Connecticut, and in which an experiment had been made to some extent at Washington. We wanted statistics of the cost of living as well as of the wages paid, and by the cost of living he meant more than the bare supply of food and of shelter in the ratio of coal to the engine ; he meant the term to include comfort and leisure for the labourer as well as the mere renewal of the strength expended. These returns were wanted for every trade in the country. He did not think that the collection of such statistics would be costly, but the cost must be considered with reference to the result to be arrived at. The little State of Massachusetts, with comparatively small funds, showed what could be done in the collec- tion of useful statistics from all parts of the world — a work for which we had already much of the necessary machinery. Our Consular reports had already been utilised in the collection of some statistics. The form in which the information they obtained was published made it useless to the workman, who could not go through their reports to extract for himself what might be useful. For the use of workmen the statistics furnished by the consuls required to be properly arranged. In England there ought to be an office estab- lished by statute for the collection of statistics from employers and employed in all trades. Ko trades council would be able to do this on its o^vn motion. There was a disposition to make secrets of matters which were not secrets, and which were known to or could be got at by well-educated persons taking interest in the subjects ; and it often happened in arbitraiion that men on each side argued about matters which were known as if they could be concealed. To secure the employment of more labour on land, we Avanted legisla- tive enactment. It was a simple matter to provide that all land in the United Kingdom, capable of being cultivated with profit, and not under cultivation or properly utilised, should be forced into cultiva- tion. Of course he was not speaking of land that was in use or enjoyment in connexion with residences or as open spaces in towns, but of land fit for or set apart for cultivation and allowed to go out of cultivation. The penalty in such cases ought to be the forfeiture of the land to the State upon jmyment of, say, twenty years' purchase, based upon the actual income from it of the seven or ten preceding years, or whatever might be deemed the proper period to take prior to the forfeiture. There was land in the country which, in part or 172 INDUSTKIAL REMUNEKATION CONFEEENCE. altogether, escaped contribution to imperial taxes and to local rates, and which ought to contribute to both, besides lessening pauperism by giving employment to the labour that would be absorbed by the cultivation of it. These were points that were worthy of discussion, and having mentioned them he would not, for the sake of speaking, occupy more of the time of so important a conference. (Applause.) The Chairman said he regretted that he was compelled to dis- appoint fourteen speakers by closing the pi-esent discussion, Mr. L. Bell, in reply, said he had been asked whether, in calcu- lating the wages of Cleveland farm labourers, he included foremen, and whether in point of fact the figure he had mentioned was the average of the wages of the district. All he could say was that he happened to belong to the class of gentlemen farmers, and he found the results at the end of the year were what he stated. He then made inquiry as to the rates of wages paid in his immediate neighbour- hood. He was assured by those whose duty it was to attend to that part of the business that he was paying the same rate of wages as was being paid all around his own farms. Mr. Snow said that did not answer the question he had put yesterday. It was a question of accuracy of statement. He denied the accuracy of the figures given yesterday by Mr. Jeans from Mr. Bell's book as indicating agricultural labourers' wages in the Cleve- land district, and he made the denial from his own knowledge. The question he put to Mr. Bell was whether he had collected figures from a majority of farmers or labourers, and he wanted an answer, so that it might be known whether Mr. Bell could verify the figures he had quoted, or whether the denial of them involved a false statement. Mr. L. Bell said he was not accusing Mr. Snow of making a false statement. Mr. Snow had made a statement to the best of his ability, and he (Mr. Bell) had answered it to the best of his ability. No one could form an opinion as to the state of ti-ade in a district from the statements made in a prospectvis for converting a private concern into a limited liability company. When that prospectus was issued the chemical trade was in a state of unprecedented prosperity, and no doubt the vendor and the inventors formed sanguine expectations as to the duration of that prosperity. A Delegate asked whether Mr. Bell could give the average wages of all employed in the rolling mills. Mr. Bell said that as I'egaided the blast-furnaces, he could answer the question pretty accurately. The average of the wages earned by all classes at that time was something like 4i\ a day for seven days a week, or 28s. a week. THUKSDAY MORNING. 173 How far do Remediable Causes Influence Prejudicially [a) the Continuity of Employment, (b) the Rates of Wages ? By Professor Alfred Marshall. I HAVE been asked to say something on tlie first two questions on our programme to-day. Tbe}^ are far too difficult to be thrashed out at a conference. But I imagine that the object of our meeting is not to argue with one another ; that cannot be done properly except in books. It is that, being people of many different opinions, but all having for our supreme aim the well-being of the working classes, we may get to feel less strange towards one another, and to enter more into one another's point of view. My point of view is that of the hum- drum economist. In one sense indeed I am a socialist, for I believe that almost every existing institution must be changed. I hold that the ultimate good of all endeavour is a state of things in which there shall be no rights but only duties ; where everyone shall work for the public weal with all his might, expecting no further reward than that he in common with his neighbours shall have whatever is necessary to enable him to work well, and to lead a refined and intellectual life, brightened by pleasures that have in them no taint of waste or extravagance. But I fear that socialists would refuse to admit me into their fold because I believe that change must be slow. I admit that even now every right-minded man must regard himself rather as the steward than the owner of what the law calls his property. But there are very few directions in which I think it would be safe at present to curtail his legal riohts. I admit that Utopian schemes for renovating society do good by raising our ideals, so long as they are only theories. But I think that they do harm when put prematurely into practice ; for their failure causes reaction. Economic institutions are the products of human nature, 174 INDUSTKIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. and cannot change much faster than human nature changes. Education, the raising of our moral and religious ideals, and the growth of the printing press and the telegraph have so changed English human nature that many things which economists rightly considered impossible thirty years ago are possible now. And the rate of change is increasing constantly and rapidly. But we have not now to speculate for the future ; we have to act for the present, taking human nature not as it may be, but as it is. Even as human nature is, an infinitely wise, virtuous, and powerful Grovernment could, I will admit, rid us of many of our worst economic evils. But human nature is, unfortu- nately, to be found in Grovernment as elsewhere ; and in conse- quence Grovernment management, even if perfectly vijtuous, is very far from being infinitely wise. Where, as in the Post Office, centralisation is necessary, it does better than private enterprise ; but when it has had no such advantage it has seldom or never done anything that private enterprise would not have done better and at less cost. The total remuneration that competition awards to men of business is probably less than would in most cases have been wasted without good to anybody if the same business had been done by Government. But waste- fulness is the least evil of Grovernment management. A greater evil is that it deadens the self-reliant and inventive faculties, and makes progress slow. But the greatest evil of all is that it tends to undermine political, and through political, social morality. For if a voter thinks that a candidate for Parlia- ment or for the town council seems likely to help him to a favourable contract, or to protection to his special industry, or to a higher salary than his work is worth to the com- munity, then, human nature being what it is, he is likely not to regard his vote as a sacred duty, but to use it for his own pecuniary interests. The greatest calamity that has ever happened to the United States is the political corruption which has grown up through money's being allowed to influence politics. This has not injured the wealthy, who can take care of themselves, so much as the working classes. They have lost a pound for every shilling that Government interference THURSDAY MORNING. 175 lias given them. Therefore, I say, let us avoid asking Grovern- ment to interfere in business, whether to make employment continuous or for any other purpose, unless its action will give a. very large balance of direct good ; for whatever tends to bring money into politics leads to great loss to all, particularly to the working classes. In some cases, as, for instance, in water supply, the direct gain of Grovernment management may be so great as to make it worth while to pay this cost. But in spite of all that has been written lately by socialists, especially in Germany, advocating Government action as a remedy for discontinuity of employment and for low wages, I do not think a strong case has been made out for it. The direct good resulting from it would be small and doubtful, the indirect harm grievous and certain. Leaving, then, others to suggest, if they will, heroic remedies, I shall confine myself to such as claim only to be harmless, and to give a quiet, but in the long run substantial, aid towards making labour more con- tinuous. Forced interruption to labour is a terrible evil. Those whose livelihood is secure, gain physical and mental health from happy and well-spent holidays. But want of work, with long-continued anxiety, consumes a man's best strength without any return. His wife gets thin, his children get, as it were, a nasty notch in their lives, which is perhaps never quite overgrown. There is certainly a want of employment now. It is true that statistics seem to show that things are not so bad as they look. This is to be expected. For where labour is specialised and employed in large groups, every interruption is conspicuous and likely to be overrated. In backward countries irregular employment is, so to speak, the rule ; as it was in England in earlier days, and is even now with jobbing masons and others who work on their own account. Because it is the rule, very little is heard about it. I believe that, thanks to the breadth of our markets and the freedom of our trade, we are suffering less now than Tiost other nations. Still there is much chronic depression in London, due chiefly to unwise immigration into it (see Appendix A). And there is acute depression in several 176 INDUSTKIAL KEMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. districts. It does not make us the better that others have been and are worse off ; but this may be a reason for thinking that we are on the whole moving on the right track. There are some causes of discontinuity of labour which lie outside our scope, such as wars ; some which we cannot remedy, such as bad harvests ; and some which we should not wish tO' remedy, such as new inventions. Almost every invention does some partial harm ; and as the rate of invention increases so this harm increases. But as there is a large net surplus of good, all that is to be wished is that those who reap the great good should bestow some of it to shield those on whom the harm falls. This is already done to some extent voluntarily ; it might be profitable to inquire whether it could not be made compulsory in some cases. The causes which lie within our scope, and are remediable, are chiefly connected in some way or other with the want of knowledge. But there is one striking, though not very impor- tant exception. It is fashion. Until a little while ago it was only the rich who could change their clothing at the capricious order of their dressmakers. But now all classes do it. The histories of the alpaca trade, the lace trade, the straw hat trade, the ribbon trade, and a multitude of others, tell of bursts of feverish activity alternating with deadening idleness. Every- one who changes the material of her dress simply at the bid of fashion, sins against the spirit of art ; but she also probably adds to the wreck of human lives that is caused by hungry pining for work. My first remedy, then, is to avoid follow- ing all the vagaries of fashion : it would not reach far, but it is an easy remedy. To pass, then, to the deficiency of our knowledge. I have been struck by the frequency with which, during the last few years, readers of the Economist have been warned of impend- ing dangers which have overtaken those short-sighted traders who look only at what is just before them and follow their leader. And the same is no doubt true of the more specialised trades newspapers. In spite of the increasing complexity of business,, commercial panics are now much milder than they were ; and this is chiefly due to the timely warnings given by the press. THURSDAY MORNING. 177 Economic science itself is in infancy ; but if the very little it has to teach were generally known by traders, if they were educated to think in a scientific way about the action of economic causes, they would bring to bear an amount of know- ledge and mental power that would soon throw into insignifi- cance all that economists know now. My second remedy, then, is more work at economic science ; a wider diflfusion of the very little that is already known ; and an increase of the good work already done by trade newspapers. One great hindrance to knowledge is the excessive secrecy of traders. When everyone else keeps his business as secret as possible, no one likes to make his own public. But if no one had secrets, everyone would be better off than he is now. Joint-stock companies in general, and co-operative societies in particular, do something towards lifting the veil. But much more is wanted. It cannot be done quickly; but discussion may gradually raise a moral feeling against needless secrecy ; and this is my third remedy. Government might do a little : it might begin by publishing income-tax returns in local news- papers ; a tax on honesty does harm in many ways. So far as to honest secrecy : but next as to dishonest. My fourth remedy is to reverse the presumption that if a dishonest bankrupt fails for a large sum of money he should therefore be let off with a small punishment on the ground that he is likely to feel any punishment deeply. In dealing with an ordinary criminal, recklessness as to the extent of the harm he does is a ground for a heavy sentence. This principle should be applied consis- tently. Given two acts of commercial dishonesty, similar in other respects, but of which one causes injury only to a few, while the other, like the Glasgow Bank failure, sjoreads desola- tion through thousands of homes, the latter ought to be far the more heavily punished. If judges could be induced to treat more severely fraud whenever it is found in the high ranks of business, particularly among promoters of companies, the industry of the country would become steadier. Better and more widely diflfused knowledge is a remedy for that excessive confidence which causes a violent expansion of N 178 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNEKATION CONFEEENCE. credit and rise of prices ; and it is also a remedy for that exces- sive distrust that follows. One of the chief sources of disturbance is the action of the general public in providing funds for joint- stock companies. Having insufficient technical knowledge, many of them trust just where they should not : they swell the demand for building materials and machinery and other things, just at the time at which far-sighted people with special know- ledge detect coming danger, and this reacts on other trades (see Appendix B). Mistakes of this kind will always be made by bond fide investors ; we can look only for their gradual diminution by the progress and diffusion of economic knowledge. But more wanton mischief is done at such times by reckless speculation. Legitimate speculation benefits trade in the long run ; but mere gambling in business is a great and growing evil. Unfortunately, intellectual education, which is a slow but sure cure for drunkenness, is not so sure a cure for the spirit of gambling ; though it may show the folly of playing against loaded dice. My fifth remedy is to encourage the growth of moral feeling against gambling, especially amongst the young. We have already seen that a great cause of the discon- tinuity of industry is the want of certain knowledge as to what a pound is going to be worth a short time hence. With every expansion and contraction of credit prices rise and fall. This change of prices presses heavily even on those who kept them- selves as far as possible from the uncertainties of trade, and Increases in many ways the intensity of commercial fluctuations. For just when private traders and public companies are most inclined to reckless ventures, the interest which they have to pay on borrowed capital represents an exceptionally small purchasing power, because prices are high. And in the opposite phase, when their resources are crippled by the stagna- tion of business, the lowness of prices compels them to sacrifice a much greater amount of real wealth in order to pay their interest. When traders are rejoicing in high prices, debenture and mortgage holders and other creditors are depressed ; and when the pendulum swings the other way, traders, already de- pressed, are kept under water by having to pay an exceptionally THUESDAY MOEXING. 179 heavy toll to their creditors. This serious evil can be much diminished by a plan which economists have long* advocated. In this, my sixth remedy, I again want Grovernment to help business, though not to do business. It should publish tables showing as closely as may be the changes in the purchasing power of gold ; and should facilitate contracts for payments to be made in terms of imits of fixed purchasing power (see Appendix C). Time does not serve for discussing the influence of the money market on the continuity of industry. This, though often exaggerated, is no doubt great. There seems to be a growing consensus of opinion that arrangements must be made with the Bank of England, or otherwise, for raising the normal limit of the ultimate cash reserve of the nation. This is my seventh remedy. It would not do much, but it would do a little towards steadying the money market directly and indus- try indirectly. Next comes a point that has been attracting increasing- attention during the whole of this generation. It is the power of combinations of employers or of employed in a trade, or of both together, to regulate and steady production in it. Such action no doubt sometimes does good to all concerned. But more often regulating the trade means curtailing production. There are exceptional cases in which this is almost necessary for self-preservation ; but it always does some harm to the general public; and nearly always this harm outweighs in the long run the net good that the trade itself gets from its self- imposed idleness. If all trades are fully at work, there must be a large total production. Should prices be low, money wages may not be very high ; but the condition of the working classes is really prosperous. While prices are falling, business men make small profits, or none ; but that only leaves the more of the total large produce to be divided up in one way or other among other classes. On the other hand, if many trades are working short time, there is little produce to be consumed by anybody ; and whether the working classes have their wages paid in many counters or few, they are quite certain to be the chief sufferers, and to have very little real com- 180 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. mand over the necessaries, comforts, and luxuries of life. At such a time warehouses may be overstocked. But this means not that there are too many commodities, but that the machinery for getting them into the right hands is out of gear for a time. Now there are many trades in which if those already in them could combine effectively to keep out external competi- tion, they would for a time benefit themselves by producing less. By diminishing supply they would raise prices more than in proportion, and would compel other industries to pay them for a time a larger sum for a smaller amount of goods. I^hey are tlierefore under a great temptation to do it, if they can. But it is often a short-sighted policy, and it is nearly 9,lways morally wrong ; because by curtailing their production they diminish their effective demand for the goods of other trades, and thus throw other trades out of work, or force them to work for lower pay. Their action injures others more than it benefits themselves even for a time. Save in exceptional cases, no trade has more right to adopt such a course than other trades ; and if all adopted it, all would be poor to- gether. The sagacity and public spirit of the leading minds both among employers and employed are increasing fast ; the recent improvement among the employed in particular is one of the most marvellous events in the history of the world. But while human nature is what it is, we cannot expect them to be so unselfish as never to curtail production when they can benefit themselves by doing it, though at a greater cost to the rest of the commimity. I therefore cannot regard the regulation of particular trades by trade combinations as tending on the whole to increase the continuity of industry. But it is true that a committee of the ablest business men in the country, representing not one trade interest but many, might, I will not say regulate trade, but give counsel by which the several trades might regulate themselves. A committee somewhat of this kind does meet once a week in the Bank of England parlour, and it does occasionally give pregnant hints to the public. But this is only incidental to its proper business. THURSDAY MOENING. 181 A committee that was not of natural growth, but artificially appointed to give advice, would not perhaps be very likely to succeed. However, as far as pure theory goes, I see no reason why a body of able disinterested men, with a wide range of business knowledge, should not be able to issue predictions of trade storm and of trade weather generally, that would have an appreciable effect in rendering the employment of industry more steady and continuous. I will call this my eighth remedy, though the time has not yet come for putting it into practice. WTien considering how such a committee might come together, our thoughts naturally turn to the grand hopes of co- operative federation. I may leave the representatives of co- operation at this Conference to set forth the part which it may play in steadying industry. The obstacles to the management of the more difiScult kinds of business on the co-operative principle are I think often underrated ; but any piece of solid work that is done on the co-operative plan is a great good. It helps in many different ways to brighten the future of England's industrial life, and for one thing can scarcely fail to diminish forced interruptions of work. This is my ninth remedy ; the last with which I shall trouble you now. Protection has been proposed as a remedy for the incon- stancy of industry. I believe that all reasonable arguments and all practical experience prove that it much increases that inconstancy. In fact, though I have heard many able arguments for Protection in countries whose chief exports are of raw produce, I have never read any argument for Protection in England that seems to me even plausible. I believe it would be as foolish, though not quite as mischievous, as the plan sometimes proposed,- to try to raise wages by curtailing produc- tion all round, A reform of our land laws is no doubt urgent, and it may do a little, but only a very little, towards making employment more steady. I have left myself no time to suggest any remedies for low wages, except the three that are very important and therefore very commonplace. By the courtesy of the Co-operative Wholesale Society, I am allowed to reprint as an appendix a 182 INDUSTKIAL EEMUNEEATION CONFEEENCE. paper that is published in their annual for this year. Those who have time to read it will gather that the first of these remedies is the improvement of the methods of production, which shall increase the produce of each man's labour when aided by a given amount of capital. The second is a rapid growth of capital, forcing it by its own competition to accept a lower rate of interest ; thus leaving a larger share of a larger produce to be distributed among the different grades of labour^ The third, and chief of all, is an increase in the number of the higher industrial grades relatively to the lower, causing the higher grades to give up a larger part of this larger share to the lower grades ; thus raising the incomes of all the ranks of the wages receiving classes, but especially the lower ranks. The highest ranks of industry are not those which have the softest hands or wear the neatest coats. They are those which make the most use of the highest and rarest faculties. A work- ing-man does much better for his son if he fits him to become a responsible foreman, than if he makes him a second-rate clerk or schoolmaster. The foreman will do the higher work, and rightly get the higher wages. The more such men there are ready to rise to the higher posts in the practical management of business, the greater will be the competition for the aid of ordinary labour, and higher will be the average level of wages. The chief remedy, then, for low wages is better education. School education ought to be good and cheap, if not free. For it makes the mind elastic, ready to take in new ideas, and able to communicate freely with others. But what makes one man really higher than another is a vigorous, straightforward cha- racter ; and the chief value of book-learning is, that it helps to- form this. The work of true education must, in the main, be done by the parents ; they alone can teach their children to feel rightly, to act strongly, and to spend wisely. The first aim of every social endeavour must be to increase the numbers of those who are capable of the more difficult work of the world, and to diminish the number of those who can do only unintelligent work, or who perhaps cannot even do THUESDAY MOENING. 183 that. The age of chivalry is not over, it is dawning now in this present generation. For now we are beginning to see how dependent the possibilities of leading a noble life are on physical and moral surroundings. However great may be our distrust of forcible socialism, we are rapidly getting to feel that no one can lay his head on his pillow at peace with him- self, who is not giving of his time and his substance to diminish the number of the outcasts of society, and to increase the number of those who can earn a reasonable income and have the opportunity of living, if they will it, a noble life. APPENDICES. OVER-CROWDIXG OF ToWNS. There is much preventable chi-onic depression in all large towns, especially London, owing to the presence of classes who would do better elsewhere. Ground rents, and therefore house rents, are so high, that poorly paid workers cannot afford decent lodgings : the poverty of the poor is their destruction. Their low earnings make them lodge badly, their unwholesome lodgings weaken them physic- ally and morally, and render them more and more unable to get hi^h earnings. Of course, Government might buy the land and let it out to the working-classes for next to nothing. This could only bribe people to stay where their work is not wanted ; after a very short time they would be no better off than before. The only people who would gain permanently would be the London landlords. Taxes levied on the community in general, including the working classes, would be used to enable the owners of London factories to get their labour artificially cheap, so that they could let their factories at very high rents for work that could be done more healthily and more to the advantage of the commimity elsewhere. If the Government can afford to buy land for the working, classes, let it make more play- grounds and breathing-spaces. Every pound so spent now will yield an income of national health and happiness for ever. The only cure for the misery of large towns is to have no one there who cannot earn a good deal. Highly-skilled workmen can pay their way weU enough, and those unskilled workers who are really necessary for the work of the towns would get high enough wages to compensate them for the dearness of house-room, if only their labour were scarce. But as it is, London in particular is 184 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. crowded with shiftless people. Some of them have been attracted by the rumours of the rich charities there. Some hnve come hoping to better their condition, but have miscalculated their powers and failed. But many more have descended to their present unhappy condition through ill-health, or through the action of causes which are constantly at work, and tend in the course of a few generations to enfeeble the physical, if not also the moral, constitution of the in- habitants of very large towns. Thus the supply of unskilled labour is so much in excess of the needs of London, that it has to compete for employment in several of the woi^ld-industries, especially the clothing industries. The wages in these are determined by the com- petition of other places, where there are no high rents to be paid ; and are therefore insuificient to pay for house-room fit for human beings in London. My remedies are two. The first is to enforce sanitary regulations in London, with rapidly-increasing stringency. I would have it given to be understood that the law will be put in force with special strictness in the case of those who come to London in future : the object of this being to deter agricultural labour, and labourers and uneducated immigrants from other countries, from coming to London unless they have some special reason for believing that they will get on well there. This might cause great hardship, unless accompanied by my second remedy, which is that liberal and vigorous action be taken to help those who are in London and are not wanted there to move themselves and their work to industrial villages, where they can get house-room cheaply, and fresh air for nothing. Each of these remedies have gi^eat dangers and difficulties, but these will be much diminished if the two are applied together. I will venture to ask those who think the second remedy of import- ance, to see if they cannot help the society, which (I have recently learnt) has been formed for promoting Industrial Villages ; its offices are at 12 Southampton Street, Strand. Its task is most difficult, and wants the aid of all the best practical knowledge that is to be had. B. The Interdependence of Industries. ' There is a pai'tnership in industries. No single large industry can be depressed without injury to other industries ; still less can any great group of industries. Each industry, when prosperous, buys and consumes the produce probably of most (certainly of very many) other industries, and if industry A. fail and is in difficulty, industi'ies B, and C.and D., which used to sell to it, will not be able to sell that THURSDAY MOEXIXG. 185 which they had produced in reUauce on A.'s demand, and in future they will stand idle till industry A. recovers, because in default of A. there will be no one to buy the commodities which they create. Then, as industry B. buys of C. D., Szc, the adversity of B. tells on C D., &c., and as these buy of E. F., &c., the effect is propagated through the whole alphabet. And in a certain sense it rebounds. Z. feels the want caused by the diminished custom of A. B. and C, and so it does not earn so much • in consequence it cannot lay out so much on the produce of A. B. and C, and so these do not eai^n so much either.' — Bagehot, Lombard Street, pp. 125-6. C. A Standard of Purchasing Pcwer. Government already does work of the kind desired in regard to the tithe commutation tables. But instead of dealing with wheat, barley, and oats, it would deal with all important commodities. It would publish then- prices once a month or once a year; it would reckon the importance of each commodity as proportioned to the total sum spent on it ; and then by simple arithmetic deduce the change in the purchasing power of gold. Boirowings could then, at the option of the contracting paities, be reckoned in Government units. On thus phin, if A. lends B. 1,000^ at 4^ per cent, interest, and after some years the ])urchasing power of money had risen by an eighth, B. would have to pay as interest, not 451., but a sum that had the same purchasing power as 45^. had at the time of borrowing, i.e. 40Z., and so on. The plan would have to win its way into general use ; but when once it had become familiar, none but gamblers would lend or borrow on any other terms, at all events for long periods. The scheme has no claims to theoretic perfection, but only to being a great improvement on our present methods, and obtainable with little trouble. A perfectly exact measui-e of purchasing power is not only unattainable but even unthinkable. The same change of prices affects the purchasing power of money to different persons in different ways. For one who can seldom afford to have meat, a rise of one-fourth in the price of bread accompanied by a fall of one-fourth in that of meat means a fall in the purchasing power of money : his wages will not go so far as before. While to his richer neighbour, who spends twice as much on meat as on bread, the change acts the other way. The Government would of course take account only of the total consump- tion of the whole nation ; but even so, it would be troubled by con- stant changes in the way in which the nation spent its income. The estimate of the importance of different commodities would have to be 186 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. recast from time to time. The only room for differences of opinion would be as to what commodities should be taken account of. It would pi^obably be best to follow the ordinary method of taking very little account of any but raw commodities. Manufactured commo- dities and personal services are always changing their character, and are not easily priced. Manufactured tend to fall in value relatively to raw commodities ; and at present, at all events, pei'sonal services tend to rise ; so that the errors made by omitting both probably nearly neutralise one another. Simplicity and definiteness are in this case far more important than theoretic accuracy. Those who make the returns should work in the open day, so that they could not, if they would, be subject to many influences. This plan, though strange at first sight, would really be much simpler than bimetallism, while its influence in steadying industry would be incomparably greater. D. Theories and Facts about Wages. {Reprinted from the Annual of the Wholesale Co-operation Society for 1885.) 1. I have been asked to give an account of the doctrines as ta wages held by the past and present generations of economists, with some statement of the actual facts of the case. It is difficult to treat such large questions in a short space; but I hope to be able to give the main outlines of them. We hear a great deal about the supplanting of old-fashioned theories of wages by newer and truer doctrines. But in fact the change in the theory itself has not been very great. Although a good deal of new work has been added, and the old work has been developed, yet but very little has been destroyed. Almost everything that was ever said by the great economists of the first half of the century is true now if properly understood. Much of it will remain true for ever, or at all events till the glorious time comes when people are willing to work as hard from a sense of duty as now they work for pay. There hag been a great change ; but it has not been in the theory itself, it has been in understanding how it is to be applied, and how it is not to be applied. At the beginning of the century, when the gi^eat economists, Malthus and Ricardo, wrote, the world was in a miserable condition, which, thank God, has passed away. The general principles which they laid down were almost all true ; but their way of expressing them was coloured by the peculiar character of the facts among which they lived. It required a great mental effort to gi-asp the principles of their reasoning; and the effort was made by but few of their THUESDAY MOKXIXG. 187 followers. But it was easy to take hold of isolated sentences and to repeat them without the conditions implied in the context. And this was done. Pohtical Economy became fashionable. In Parliament and the counting-house, in the pulpit and the press, the authority of Political Economy was invoked for all kinds of purposes ; but before all and above all, for the purpose of keeping the working-man in his place. Nearly all the gi'eatest economists have been earnest and fear- less friends of the working classes ; they have been impelled to the study of economics chiefly by a desire to see how far it was possible to diminish the evils of poverty. But Ricardo had very little sympathy one way or the other ; and many of those who made them- selves a reputation by the confidence with which they misunderstood parts of what he said, were partisans of capital. The reputation of Economic Science has suffered and is suffering for the misdoings of its camp followers. 2. At the beginning of the century the prices of things consumed by the labourer, taken one with another, were nearly double what they are now. And meanwhile the average money wages of manvial labour have nearly doubled. There has not indeed been a very gi-eat rise in the wages of all occupations; the improvement is chiefly due to the fact that then there were very few skilled workers, while now there are comparatively few who are entirely unskilled. The average income for each man, woman, and child in the manual labour classes was about 12^. then, and is not less than 201. now. These classes have now none too much of the necessaries, comforts, and luxuries of life ; but then they had less than a third of what they have now. Starvation and disease i"an riot in the land. Some causes of this misery were seen clearly enough by everyone, without aid from the economists. The great war with France had cost about fifteen hundred million pounds ; and that was probably a good deal more than the value of everything that was left in the country, except the land. The imperial taxes were 20 per cent, of the total income of the country ; the mere interest on the debt was 10 per cent, of it. Next an unparalleled series of bad harvests had made wheat terribly dear : it was frequently over 61. a quarter, and once over 10^. Bat besides all this, the administrators of the Poor Law were raising up new evils by attempting to relieve suffering indiscrimin- ately. What they really did was to discriminate against the industrious and in favour of the dissolute. Farmers sometimes had to turn away hard-working men who had saved a little money, and make them live on that, in order to make room for drones forced on them by the parish. The industrious were so much worse provided for 188 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. than those who went to the parish, that in time independent labourers a,Imost ceased to exist. Wages were lowered all round and eked out by parish pay. He got on best who was the best adept at the arts of imposition. In the South, where the system was carried to the greatest lengths, the labourer has never recovered from the injury thus done to his character and wages. A hundred years ago wages were higher in the South than in the North of England ; now they are half as much again in the North as in the South. In these and other ways the Poor Laws did evil. Mischief was done, not by the amount of relief given, but by its being given in the wi^ong way and to the wrong persons, so as to cause the survival of the worst in place of the best. Probably half of all the lives of extreme misery and want in the country are due to this cause The nation at large did not get to see this last cause of misery till 1834 ; but the economists saw it earlier. They looked at the history of England, and found that the working popu.lation had been well off when it had been increasing slowly in number, and badly off when it had been increasing fest. They studied the history of wages, and found that wages were once really high ; it was just after the black death had destroyed a great part of the population. Again, they knew that from 1700 to 1760 population had been almost sta- tionary, and their wages had steadily risen. But from 1760 onwards numbers had inci-eased fast, and misery had increased faster. Trade, indeed, had grown, and there had been a marvellous series of me- chanical inventions, but these had been able to do little to diminish the difficulty of getting food. The economists looked abroad, and they saw poverty wherever there was a dense population. If in any happy valley they found everyone well off, they found then, what we find now, a custom that only one son out of each family should marry. They found that in England before 1760 it was not very easy for a man to get a house for himself while he was quite young ; he had generally to go on a good while living with other young men in his father's or employer's house before he could see his way to marry. But since then manufacturers had made so many new openings that it had become the habit for everyone to marry when he wanted to, and to trust to luck. And then later on the Poor Law officers made life pretty easy to the father of a large family, if he would only give up all attempts to help himself and cringe enough to them. Mean- while, as bread grew dearer, cultivation was creejDing up the hillsides. Wheat was gi-own on miserable land that would not give eight bushels an acre, though more labour had been spent on it than was wanted to raise twenty or thirty bushels on fairly good land. 3. The economists saw all this ; and they thought rightly, that at THUKSDAY MORNING. 185> that particular time there was no truth more important, none on which the philanthroj)ist should insist with more earnestness, than what they called the law of Diminishing Return. This was : — The natural law of the fertiKty of land is that, other things being equal, an increased application of capital and labour to land will not increase in like proportion the raw produce raised from it. They went on to apply this to the question of wages. If twenty men are employed on a farm and a twenty-first wants to be taken on, he will produce less than the others did, and therefore the farmer cannot afford to pay him so much ; and he must therefore take a less quantity of corn as wages, (I say a less quantity of corn so as to avoid all trouble about changes in the price of corn.) The next step will be for the farmer to lower everybody else's wages to his level. The next step will be for the landlord to say to the farmei-, ' You get your labour for lower wages (at all events when measured in corn), and so you can afibrd to pay me more rent ; if you do not agree to pay it. I will find someone else who will.' A rise of rents and a fall of wages is therefore, they argued, the necessary consequence of an excessive growth of population. He who truly loves the people will ui"gethem not to marry early. Now the first sentence of this reasoning has the clause 'other things being equal,' and the conclusions may be invalid if other things are not equal. The economists knew of this condition, but they did not pay much attention to it : and this not so much because they were careless as because it had then no great practical import- ance. No one, however sagacious, would have anticipated the strange combination of causes which have since then lowered the price of corn : all reasonable expectations were in the other direction. The new machinery was manufacturing things cheaply; but the working-man could not consume many of them himself, and if he wanted to send them abroad and to buy food with them, he had to pay enormous taxes for doing so. The economists were convinced of the advantages of free trade, but they had no hope that the landed interests which then ruled the country could be made to allow it. And even with free trade they did not expect to be able to buy large supplies of corn cheaply, for the wheat lands of America were then chiefly on the poor soil of the Atlantic border. The middle re^^ion of America was but little known, and seemed too far ofi' for extensive trade ; while the richest wheat land of all, that in the North- Western States and California, was less known than the centre of Africa is now. Since then England has adopted free trade, and railways and steamships have come into existence. So great has been the growth of knowledge, of mechanical invention, and of the aid which capital 190 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. affords to labour, that the working-man can buy his bread from abroad at the cost of less labour than he could get it with even in 1760, before the rapid growth of population had set in. The old economists made wonderfully good use of their knowledge as far as it went ; but we, knowing what they could not even guess, can see the way to improving the first part of their doctrine of wages. But before doing this, let us look at the rest of it. 4. Gi-eat as was the poverty of the English people then, foreign countries were poorer still. In most of them population was sparse, and therefore food was cheap; but for all that they were underfed, and could not provide themselves with the sinews of war, France, after her first victories, helped herself along by the forced contribu- tions of others. But the countries of central Europe could not support their own armies without England's aid. Even America, with all her energy and national resources, was not rich ; she could not have subsidised Continental armies. The economists looked for the explanation, and found it chiefly in England's accumulated capital, which, though small when judged by our present standard, was very much greater than that of any other country. Other nations were envious of England, and wanted to follow in her steps ; but they were unable to do so, partly indeed for other reasons, but chiefly because they had not capital enough. Their annual income was required for immediate consumption. There was not in them a large class of people who had a good store of wealth set by, which they did not need to consume at once, and which they could devote to making machines and other things that would aid labour and enable it to produce a larger store of things for future consumption. A special tone was given to their arguments by the facts that capital was scarce everywhere, even in England; that the efficiency of labour was becoming more and more dependent on the machinery by which it was aided ; and lastly, that some foolish followers of Rousseau were telling the working classes that they would be better off without any capital at all. In consequence, the economists gave extreme prominence to the statements ; first, that labovir requires the support of capital, i.e. of good clothes, &c., that have been already produced ; and secondly, that labour requires the aid of capital in the form of factories, stores of raw material, &c. Of course the workman might have supplied his own capital, but in fact he seldom had more than a little store of clothes and furniture, and perhaps a few simple tools of his own — he was dependent for evei-ything else on the savings of others. The labourer received clothes ready to wear, bread ready to eat, or the money with which he could purchase them. The capitaHst received THUESDAY MORNING. 191 ^ spinniBg of wool into yarn, a weaving of yarn into cloth, or a plough- ing of land, and only in a few cases commodities ready for use, coats ready to be worn, or bread ready to be eaten. There are, no doubt, important exceptions, but the ordinary bargain between employers and employed is that the latter receive things ready for immediate use and the former receive help towards making things that will be of use hereafter. These facts the economists expressed by saying that all labour requires the support of capital, whether owned by the labourer or by someone else ; and that when anyone works for hire, his wages are, as a rule, advanced to him out of his employer's capital — advanced, that is, without waiting till the things which he is engaged in making are ready for use. These simple statements have been a good deal criticised, but they have never been denied by anyone who has taken them in the sense in which they were meant. The older economists, however, went on to say that the amount of wages was limited by the amount of capital ; and this statement can- not be defended ; at best it is but a slovenly way of talking. It has suggested to some people the notion that the total amount of wages that could be paid in a country in the course of, say, a year, was a fixed sum. If by the threat of a strike, or in any other way, one body of workmen got an increase of wages, they would be told that in consequence other bodies of workmen must lose an amount exactly equal in the aggregate to what they had gained. Those who have said this, have perhaps thought of agricultuml produce, which has but one harvest in the year. If all the wheat raised at one harvest is sure to be eaten before the next, and if none can be imported, then it is true that if anyone's share of the wheat is increased, there will be just so much less for others to have. But this does not justify the statement that the amount of wages payable in a country is fixed by the capital in it, a doctrine which has been called ' the vulgar form of the wages fund theory,' and which was used for partisan purposes by shallow and dogmatic hangers-on of economic science. Unfortunately isolated sentences can be quoted even from the best of the older econo- mists which seem to support this doctrine. The whole spix-it of their reasoning was opposed to it, but those who thought any stick good enough to beat the trades unions with, seized eagerly on these care- lessly-worded sentences. 5. Let us, then, look at the doctrine which the economists meant to express by this unfortunate phrase. They saw that if wa^es rise in one trade without any corresponding increase in the efiiciency of work, someone or other must lose what that trade gained. They classed all incomes as rent, profits, and wages. Of course, part of 192 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. the loss might fall on. rent ; but the economists could prove that that was not very likely unless population diminished. And, therefore, it must fall on pi'ofits or wages, or both. If it fell on profits they argued that capital would shrink ; there would be less accumulated wealth with which to pay wages to labour, and supply it with the requisite raw material, &c. Therefore there would be less effective demand for labour ; and so, by one route or another, other workers would suffer for the extra gain got by the first group. The complete argument has a good deal more detail, and in whatever form it is expressed, it takes up a great many pages in every thorough economic treatise. But what has just been given is its backbone. Now, when one looks at the argument one finds that there is really nothing in it about a fixed wages fund. There is something in it about there being at any time a definite (not a fixed) wages and profits fund. A world of trouble would have been saved .if they had used this phrase from the beginning. The French and German economists, though on the whole they had not done nearly so much good work as the English, have never given any countenance to the doctrine that there is a determinate wages fund. The great difference between the views of wages taken by English economists in the past and the present generation is then this — they all regard wages as paid out of capital ; l)ut while the older economists talked as though wages were limited by the amount of capital that had been already put aside to pay wages with, the younger economists have, for the last ten or fifteen years, put the case in another way. They see that if the efiiciency of industry were increased, and more things were produced, highei' wages would be paid at once by draw- ing more rapidly on the stocks already in hand. It might be neces- sary to be a little careful about the stocks of some kinds of raw produce which could not be replenished very quickly. But with a few exceptions the increased supplies would come in so soon that the stores need never run low. Therefore, the younger economists do not speak of wages as limited by capital. But they say that every in- crease of capital raises wages, because it increases the productiveness of industry ; it increases the competition of the capitalist for the aid of labour, and thus lowers the rate of interest and inci^eases that part of the total produce whicli capital is compelled to resign to labour. 6. I will now put together the new version of the economic doc- trines in my own words, and illustrate it by a reference to facts. First, as to what determines the produce of capital and labour. With equal capital per head, equal individual efl3.ciency, and equal knowledge of the arts of production, the amount of raw produce raised per head is greatest in a rich new country that is well settled THUKSDAY MORNING. 193 but thinly peopled, and steadily diminishes with every increase in the population. But this abundance of raw produce is not of much use to them unless some of it can be sold at a high price to manufac- turing countries. Unless this can be done, life in a thinly- peopled country is very hard, because nothing except raw produce can be got easily. That is verified by history. The early colonists of America got freedom and plenty of plain food ; but in almost every other re- spect they were worse off than the English agricultural labourer on 15^, a week is now. If trade with other places were impossible, the law of the total productiveness of industry, counting in raw and manufactured commodities together, would be generally a law of in- creasing and not of diminishing return. That is to say, an increase in population (accompanied by a corresponding increase of capital) would increase and not diminish the average material well-being — at all events, until the country had become crowded and raw produce had to be raised in very expensive ways. The railway and steamship have improved the condition of all countries, but most of all, those whose population is very thin and those whose population is very thick. As things are, the total necessaries, comforts, and luxuries that can be got by given capital, labour^ and intelligence, is perhaps greatest where the population is ten to the square mile, and dimin- ishes very slowly with every increase in the population. But it must be admitted that the advantage that America and Australia have over the crowded countries of Western Europe is not quite so great as appears. Real as well as money wages are, no doubt, higher there than here ; but the work that has to be done to earn them is harder. Even in America itself many of those who can and will work hardest go West, and wages are therefore much higher West than East ; but if the Western men came East they would get more than average wages, and some of the Eastern men who go West find it difficult to cet employment. But of course every improvement in knowledge and in the arts of production, as well as every increase in the capital per head, increases the total production per head. So great has been the increase of prosperity in this country, while population has been growing rapidly that if we could reduce raw and manufactured goods to a common standard of price, we should probably find the average real income of the manual labour classes now higher than was the avei^age income of all, rich and poor together, a century ago. 7. Passing now from the amount of produce per head to the way in which it is distributed, we may first consider the landlord's share. The old economists, writing when the importation of corn on a lar^e scale was out of the question, said that an increase of population 194 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. compelled poorer soils to be cviltivated, and raised rents ; and they expected a rapid and constant rise of rents in England. It lias turned out otherwise. Imported food has been so cheap that agri- cultural rents have sometimes fiillen fiist. So that agricultural rent proper, i.e. what remains after deducting interest on capital sunk in the land, is now probably not more than it was early in the century. It was then a very impoi-tant part of the total income of the country — perhaps a sixth part ; while now it is certainly less than a twentieth part. But the increase of wealth and population has raised the value of land for purposes of residence, of railways, mining, &c. ; so that on the whole the owners of land have probably not lost by free trade. 8. After deducting rent from the total produce of industry, there remains what has just been called the Wages and Profits Fund. But profits are made up of two parts — interest, which goes to the owner of capital, and the earnings got by the employer of the capital. There is a growing tendency to class these eai'nings, which may be called the Earnings of Management, with other kinds of earnings ; so I prefer to speak of this fund as the Earnings and Interest Fund. Just to fix the ideas, I will give a rough estimate as to this. We may take agricultural rent proper and ground rents at about 75 millions. At least 50 millions more are got from foreign investments, which we don't want to count in here. The rest of the national income, that which constitutes the Earnings and Interest Fund for the labour and capital employed at home, is a little over 1,000 millions. Nearly 250 millions are interest on capital, and nearly 800 millions are earnings of labour. This last sum we may again regard as divided up into about 500 millions for the w^ages of the working- classes, and nearly .300 millions for the earnings of all other classes, including employers. Of course we might go further, dividing up each of these two parts into the shares of many difierent grades or classes of labour. Each of these classes of labour has its work in production ; we may call it a factor of production. 9. Well, then, the great laAV of distribution is, that the more use- ful one factor of production is, and the scarcer it is, the higher wUl be the rate at which its services are paid. For instance, if two skilled labourers, after allowing for the expense of the machinery they use, can do as much work as five unskilled, they will get as much wages as the five unskilled can get should they stay in the trade. Again, supposing an employer can devise such economic arrangements of machinery, &c., as to make the labour of 500 labourers reach as far as ordinary employers would the labour of 600, then his earnings of management will exceed theirs by the wages of a THURSDAY MORNING. 195 hundred labourers. But he can go on doing this only so long as there are not many employers like him. If there are, they will com- pete with one another, lower the price of their goods, and distribute the benefit of their skill among the community at large. These illus- trations explain thegenei'al principle, which we may now state a little more carefully. The total Earnings and Interest Fund depends on the resources of nature and the efficiency of capifcil and labour acting on it. The larger this is, the more there will be to be divided up, and the larger, other things being equal, will the share of each be. Thus, in a new and rich country interest can be high, and the earnings of all classes of labour, from the employer down to the lowest unskilled labourer, can be high. But, other things being equal, if any one factor of pro- duction increases relatively to the others, it will become in less and less request. If, for instance, capital increases much faster than labour, without there being many inventions to open up new fields for its employment, capital will go a-begging and the rate of interest will fall. If the number of people w^ho want to do clerk's work increases out of proportion to tlie population, their wages will fall. If the number of unskilled labourei's increases relatively to others, they will find difficulty in getting employment ; interest will rise at their expense, and the earnings of employers and of all other kinds of labour will rise at their expense. On the other hand, if the number of unskilled labourers were to diminish sufficiently, then those who did unskilled work would have to be paid good Avages. If the total production was not increased, these extra wages would have to l)e paid out of the shares of capital, and of the higher kinds of labour ; but even so, the great aim would have been attained of making the increase of wealth burn,' up the diminution of want a little faster. But, if the diminution of unskilled labour is brought about by in- creasing the efficiency of labour, it will increase production, and there will be a larger fund to be divided up. 10. Now let us apply this general reasoning to the changes in the distribution of wealth in modem England. The leading in- fluence in these changes is, that capital is growing at least twice as fast as population. Population is not quite doubling itself in fifty years, while capital is doubling itself m less than twenty-five. If it had not been for the new uses that are always being found for cajiital in different forms, it would have been impossible to employ so much with any great advantage. It must have either migi"ated, or have competed for occupation until it had forced down its price to perhaps one per cent, a year. Even as things are, it has had to submit to a con- tinually decreasing rate of interest; and its loss has been labour's gain. o 2 196 INDUSTRIAL RFMUNERATION CONFERENCE. This change is partly disguised by the fact that when capital is largest its total share of the produce is largest too. For instance, if in California the cjxpital which each workman makes use of is equal in value to his work for one year, while in Lancashire it is equal to his work for ten years, then, though the rate of interest is lower in Lancashire than in California, the fraction of the produce which goes to capital may be six or seven times as large in Lancashire as in Cali- fornia. This accounts for the appai-ent anomaly, that while the total produce per head is larger in Lancashire, the wages are higher in California. If Lancashire had only as much capital per head as Cali- fornia has, the total pi"oduce handed over to capital would of course be less ; but that would be no gain to labour. For production could not be carried on efficiently, labour would have to pay a higher rate of interest for whatever capital it did use, and wages would be much lower than they ai-e. 11. The profits of business include the eai-nings of management got by the employer, as well as the interest got by his capital. But • in spite of exceptional cases to the contrary, earnings of management are falling, just as interest is ; and for the same reasons. This is a special instance of a great fact that has been noticed in America and on the Continent (especially by M. Leroy Beaulieu) as well as in England. It is that the difference between the earnings in different <^rades of labour is steadily diminishing. A generation ago so few people got a good education, that for every pound spent on it there might faii-ly be expected a total return of from perhaps ten to a hundred pounds in after life. But the growth of intelligence has made people more willing to look far ahead j the standard of educa- tion has risen in all the ranks of life. So that while the i-ate of interest on capital invested in material things is about a quarter less than it was, the interest on capital invested in education has perhaps fallen one-half. For each pound invested in education, there is perhaps not more than half as much returned in extra earning in after life as there used to be. On the other hand, extraordinary natural abilities of every kind find a wider scope and secm-e higher earnings than ever. If we take as our standard the wages of unskilled labour, there is a steady fall in the eai-nings that an expensive start in life will secure to people of average ability, whether they be musicians, or painters, or medical men, or lawyers, or, lastly, business men. The fact is much more important, though it attracts much less attention than the fact that in all these occupations people with exceptional ability can make fortunes unheard of till now. 12. Exceptionally favoured men in business get command over THUESDAY MOKNING. 197 vast capitals, and are thus able to do great things. But nearly all very rich men owe a good deal of their wealth to judicious and fortunate speculation. These gains are chiefly at the expense, not of the general public, but of less successful speculators. In old times fortunes were more even, and if a man failed, his stoiy was long remembered in his neighboui'hood ; so a fairly true average of gains and losses could be struck. Now, those who fail are quickly lost to sight ; their losses heap up the conspicuous gains of successful men. Partly for this reason, few people are aware how great a fall there has been in the real average earnings of men of business with a moderate capital and average ability. Parallel changes are going on within the ranks of hired labour. Simple writing, simple machine turning, weaving, and similar occu- pations are sinking in the industrial scale. Almost anyone with a sound body and mind, and with a little training, is fit for them. But they used to get high wages, because an insufficient number of people had had the training. Not long ago a clerk w^ho did the simplest work got the wages of two or three agricultural labourers. Now he gets, in England, hardly more than the wages of one ; in Australia, less than the wages of one. But judgment, self-possession, promptness, and shrewdness, are qualities for which the demand is increasing faster than the supply, though that is increasing very fast. Wages ax'e rising steadily in all occupations in which these qualities are wanted in a high degree ; and they are rising most rapidly in occupations which require these together with great powers of physical endurance. Whenever any new kind of skill is wanted, it is at first rare, and must be paid highly. But if it does not require exceptional natural abilities, there will soon be a good supply of it, and wages are likely to fall. This is, in nine cases out of ten, the explanation of any fall there has been in the wages of particular trades during the last fifty years. But meanwhile new trades are always breaking out that re- quire higher abilities and get higher payment. And in spite of the fact that wages are falling in many trades, the average real wages of manual labour are rising rapidly. It must be remembered that 20s. a week now will buy as much as 25s. would twelve years ago. Thus there is a constant tendency for the lower ranks of industry to gain on the higher ; so that a steadily increasing share of the benefits of progi-ess is going to those who have the greatest need to be lifted up. But to this rule there is one great exception. Those who have a poor physique and a weak character — those who are limp in body and mind — are falling, or if not, it is because they are already as low 198 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNEKATION CONFERENCE. as they can go. They are found in greatest numbers wherever there is most wealth, but they are not the products of wealth, any more than thrushes are born of gooseberry trees. There are no feeble people in the Prairies. Some feeble people go there, but they either get back quickly to a large town, or else they die. Charity and sanitary regulations are keeping alive, in our lai'ge towns, thousands of such persons, who would have died even fifty years ago. Mean- while economic forces are pressing heavily on them, for they can do nothing but easy monotonous work, most of which can be done as well, or better, by machinery or by children. Public or private charity may palliate their misery, but the only remedy is to prevent such people from coming into existence. It must be remembered that the poorest of the poor are descended from all ranks of society ; probably the upper ranks contribute more than their proportionate share to them. Crime and dissoluteness in one generation often engender disease, feebleness, dissoluteness, and crime for many- generations to come. The long chains of evils that thus result cannot be cut short without the active aid of all classes ; but if all classes help wisely but boldly, tenderly but firmly, they can, I believe, do it. 13. It would be out of place here to discuss the institution of private property. Assuming, as I do, that it is to be kept up with- out fundamental change, I think I have shown that though there are still great evils, though there is still much needless misery, yet in the main, and on the whole, the changes at present at work are such as to be desired ; only they are not going fast enough. Fast as is the in- crease in the supply in the higher grades of labour, and the diminu- tion in that of the lower, we want them to be faster. An equal increase in all grades would lower earnings a little, but not much if capital grew fast. But an increase of population may go with a rapid rise in average wages, if the children of each grade are brought up with the intelligence, self-command, and vigour that now belong to the grade above them. Persons in any rank of life who are not in good physical and mental health have no moral right to have children. Eut in spite of popular Malthusianism, though not in opposition to Malthus' principles, we may affirm that those who bring up a large healthy family with a thoi'oughly good physical, mental, and moral training relatively to their own rank in life, do a service to their country. If the children emigrate, they do a still greater service to the world. A good ti-aining is not complete if it only makes them, efficient producei-s, it must also make them wise and temperate con- sumers and good citizens. It is to be hoped that all these children will save a little capital THUESDAY MORNINa. 199 of their own, and that some of them will rise from lower ranks to be employers of labour. Everyone who so passes upwards benefits labour in two ways — he diminishes the competition of labour for employment, and he increases the competition for labour on the part of employing and directing power. If small men of business are being pushed out by big men, big men are being pushed out by joint-stock companies and other asso- ciations of little men. These are gi'adually making the great mass of the nation owners of its most important industries and employers of its ablest and most powerful business men. Among these associations the genuine co-operative societies have the noblest work. Besides his wages and interest on his capital, they are giving the workman high mental and moral aspu-ations ; they afibrd him a real insight into the problems of business, and they help to diminish industrial strife. They are the best of all known means for enabling an inci-easing share of the income of the country to go into the hands of those who have the gi-eatest need for it and can turn it to the best use. Continuity of Employment and Bates of Wages. By Emma A. Paterson. The continuity of industrial employment and the rates of wages are questions of deep interest, not only to men but also to women, for it appears from the latest census returns that, without including domestic servants, girls and women now constitute one-third of the industrial portion of the popula- tion.^ They are often ignored in investigations relating to wages, and truly the amount of their remuneration is in most cases so small, that one might suppose they worked for amuse- ment rather than for a livelihood. Mr. Giffen, in his recent paper on the Progress of the Working Classes, makes no reference to working-women. All through he speaks of the * working-man,' and in the list of thirteen industries which he gives as showing a great increase of wages during the last fifty years, trades in which women are employed, with the exception of weaving, do not appear. I can only suppose that he consigns working-women to the ' residuum still unimproved ' mentioned ' See Appendix A. p. 206. 200 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. in page 20 of bis paper. ' Where all are getting- on,' he says on the same page, ' it does not seem very practical in those who are getting on slowly to grudge the quicker advance of others.' Women often doubt whether they are getting on, even slowly, in this matter of remuneration for their work, but I think they cannot be accused of impatience about it, and I believe that until they become more impatient, very little improvement will take place in their position. I have found, however, during my ten years' experience in helping to establish Women's Trade Societies, that many women feel a deep sense of injury and wrong in the fact that their wages reach only one-third or one-fourth of the amount paid to men for any kind of skilled work, though they are not sure upon whose shoulders the blame should be laid.' I am taking, and I shall deal especially with, that which should be considered the skilled industry of women, leaving out the comparatively rough work, such as sack making and paper- bag making, ranging from 4s. to 7s. per week. Considering the high prices paid by fashionable ladies for their dresses, there seems to be no good reason why West-end dressmakers should not be as well paid as West-end tailors and tailoresses ; yet, in some of the largest West-end houses, time workers re- ceive only i2s. and 14s. per week, and against those amounts must be placed serious deductions at slack seasons, varying from two to three months' loss of work in the year.^ The West-end upholsteresses succeeded by means of a general petition to the employers, about fourteen years ago, in getting their wages raised to 15s. a week — the only case of that kind I have heard ' Professor Leone Levi, in his statistics of 1878, of the earnings of the working classes, placed the number of wage-earning women at 8,800,000, and gave the average weekly earnings of every woman of full age at 13s. 8d. This high average was obtained b)' throwing in the very large class of domestic servants— 1,300,000 at the census of 1871. ^ Since writing this paper I have heard it stated, at a meeting, by a large employer in the London bookbinding trade, that since he entered the business the wages of the men have gone up from 30s. to 36s., 38s., and 40s. per week, but that the same amounts are paid to the women as were paid forty years ago — 10s. and 12s. per week. He regretted this, and was glad the women had now formed a trade society, without which those employers who might be willing to pay higher rates could not be protected from the competition of less scrupulous employers. THUKSDAY MOENING. 201 of — but they are liable to be out of work for three months of the year. We often hear it said that the workers take no share of the risk of a business, that this is borne wholly by the employer, yet the loss of work from dulness of trade is surely a considerable share in the risk, and it is one not felt by the more highly paid workers — the foremen and overlookers. Holi- days also have to be deducted, for, unlike the salaried class, workpeople are required to pay for these. In many workshops even Christmas Day and the Bank holidays are deducted from the weekly wages. Enforced holidays, such as a week required for removing machinery and material to new premises, are also deducted. Where both men and women are employed it is not an unknown event for the day of the men's shop-dinner or ' beanfeast " to be possibly the day of no dinner for the women ; it is not the custom for them to join in these festivities, but as their work cannot go on while the men are absent, the workshop is closed and the women lose a day's pay. (a) The continuity of industrial employment. — The cause which most prejudicially influences this, with regard to women, I consider to be the length of their hours of work. If not all working-women, surely a far larger number than are at present in regular employment might gain it if there were a general reduction of working hours. This has been the experience of men, who have often striven harder for shorter hours than for higher wages. It is supposed to be a peculiar advantage to women that their hours of work are fixed by law, but what is the boon thus afforded ? Twelve hours, with a deduction of two hours for meals — two hours more than the limit men have, in many trades, gained through combination. The Factory Act also provides that in season-trades women may work for fourteen hours, on forty-eight days in a year ; it also legalises employ- ment in workshops until four o'clock on Saturday afternoons, and the fullest advantage of this is taken in most dressmaking, millinery, and tailoring establishments, so that the Saturday half-holiday, supposed to be now general in trades, is still un- known to many workwomen, and no money compensation for the loss of it is given. I have heard one restriction much complained of; it is that the dinner hour must be taken before 2 p.m. on 202 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNEEATION CONFEEENCE. Saturdays, as on other days, so that although the women would prefer to work on until three o'clock and then leave, and have their dinner at home, they are obliged to stay until four and waste an hour wandering about the streets. This is only a small instance, but it is a striking one, of the harassing effect of legislation in matters which could be much better arranged by agreement with the employers. I have but little hope of the reduction of women's hours of work by legislation; for children such protection may be necessary, but women, in this, as in other matters, must work out their own salvation. I know how strong a pressure is put upon employers by the public with regard to speed, as I have for some years had to do with the management of a women's printing office. The public is a monster of unreasonable impatience. In counting the days since an order was given, it includes Saturdays, Sundays, and general holidays. It also appears surprised that a dinner hour is necessary. ' You should get more hands,' it calmly says — for that barbarous term is applied, even in these enlightened days, to the men and women who toil for the good of the community. It professes, in the abstract, to wish every worker to have con- stant employment, yet it desires that a small army of unem- ployed ' hands ' should be hanging about, ready to be drawn upon when it wants a piece of work done that in nine cases out of ten might have been ordered at a week's, instead of a day's, notice, and this usually in the busiest seasons, immediately before holiday times, when, fortunately for the ' hands,' it is no easy matter to find them. A Member of Parliament, a pro- minent advocate of factory legislation, once ordered an Ulster coat so hurriedly, before going on his summer tour, that the Factory Act had to be broken to get it done in time. Employers are naturally afraid of offending a good customer and of losing work, but if they could say that the 'hands ' generally all through a trade absolutely refused to work beyond certain hours, they would have a strong protection against unreasonable demands. The reform must come from the determination of the ' hands ' to assert that they possess also heads, nerves, and digestive organs, all requiring consideration and attention. It is useless THDESDAY MOENING. 203 to plead legal restrictions ; everyone knows bow easily these are evaded. The extensive employment of young girls as ' improvers ' or * learners,' often without any formal apprenticeship, is a serious evil in women's trades, and it is one which, so far as I know, can be touched by nothing but combination. The principal causes prejudicially influencing (6) Wages, are, I believe, so far as women are concerned : — 1. The want of any common agreement with employers upon rates of payment, especially for piece-work, and, in con- nexion with this, the ignorance of the workwomen as to prices offered for similar work in different localities, or even in the same town ; and the want of a fund to fall back upon to enable them to refuse work offered at starvation wages. 2. The absence of any provision such as trades unions afford for the registration of trade requirements, and for the payment of travelling expenses from a town where an industry may be temporarily overcrowded to another where workers are wanted. 3. The absence in certain trades of any apprenticeship. This is especially complained of in East London tailoring. 4. The competition of married women, who work at home at the lowest rates, and without restriction of hours. 5. The cause assigned by John Stuart Mill, viz. 'prejudice.' 6. The demand for cheapness and for low estimates. 7. The cost of overlooking. 8. The prevalence of the sweating system. 9. The diminution in agricultural employment, by which men and women are driven into town trades. The first three of these causes I need not enlarge upon. They have been met with by workmen who have succeeded in bringing about marked improvements through trade organisa- tion, such as I recommend for women.^ The remedy is, I think, obvious, but here is just one instance with reference to prices. I have heard of an East-end tailoress going to a West-end house, and offering to make waistcoats at two shillings less than ' The men's trades in which Mr. Giffen shows the most marked rises of wages are those that possess the strongest organisations. 204 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. the price usually paid there ; she did this in ignorance arising- from the want of communication with other tailoresses. It may be urged that the crowded state of needlework trades and the competition of home workers will be an effectual barrier to organisation. But we must remember that only a portion of working-men are unionists ; these being, however, the steadiest and most skilful workers, they are able to influence the wages and other conditions of employment, so that if some common standard of prices were agreed upon for women's work, varying, of course, with fluctuations of trade,, similar results might be expected. Women who were not suflBciently skilful to earn these prices would proba])ly fall off into other occupations, such as domestic work, here or in the colonies. Cause 5 would, I am convinced, be beneficially influenced by combination, through which women would gain a higher standing in industry; also by the removal of electoral dis- abilities, now, I hope, rapidly approaching. Within the last ten years the Home Secretaries of both great political parties (Sir R. A. Cross and Sir William Vernon Harcourt) have refused to receive deputations of working-women upon questions directly affecting their work, and indirectly affecting their wages — the Factory Act and the appointment of Factory Inspectors — although several deputations of working-men on those questions have been received. 'Prejudice' and the want of political power may explain this strange fact. Causes 6, 7, 8 and 9 would, I believe, be to a great extent remedied by trades unions, but still more by small experiments in co-operation, such as that described by Mr. H. Broadhurst, M.P., in a most interesting article of recent date,' and the Working Tailors' Association in Whitechapel. These would be possible in many, though not in all, women's trades, and trades unions would atford the organisation necessary for initiating them. I am glad that the workmen Mr. Broadhurst speaks of ' will not undertake low-price work.' Protests against the nastinpss of cheap work are much needed in these days, when many people are taking to bargain-hunting and low estimate seeking, as a new form of excitement. I quote in an Appendix * » Pall Mall GazeUe, December 11, 1884. ^ See Appendix B. p. 207. THUESDAY MORNING. 205 some excellent remarks on this subject, from a technical journal which is in itself a specimen of high-class workmanship. The stimulus given to the worker by co-operation in work- shops might diminish the cost of overlooking and ' driving,' now so serious an item ; by bringing the workers and customers into more direct communication it would also powerfully tend to diminish the sweating, or ' middleman,' system. I think this directness of contact partly accounts for the fact that the wages of domestic servants and charwomen keep up to a certain level. No sweating is adopted in those industries. One objection that I wish to refer to before closing is fre- quently urged against the higher payment of women and the organisation of their trades. It is that men are the bread- winners for a family, and that women work only for their own support. I answer that women also, when their husbands die, become the bread-winners for families ; but both men and women who are in this position have at least the comforting thought that in old age their children will help them, and will not, except at the last extremity, suffer them ' to go on the parish.' The large and increasing number of women who reach middle age and old age vmmarried have no help of this kind ; therefore it is of especial importance to them that their wages should enable them to make provision for the time when they are past work.^ Another singular disadvantage of women is that, as statistics prove, they live longer than men ; ^ conse(:[uently, if they want to buy a Grovernment annuity, they are required to pay a rate of. premium higher than the men's rate. Notwithstanding their greater tenacity of life, work- women as they get into years are often weakly and ailing, and are called upon to paj for medical advice or to resort to dis- pensaries and hospitals, thus burdening the rates, or depending upon private charities kept up by philanthropic people, perhaps by those very employers who have underpaid them for their work. Their ailments, it is said, may be chiefly traced to poor living, close lodging, and overwork. How much, I wonder, of the meat, bacon, ham, eggs, butter, cocoa, coffee, wine, and other articles that Mr. Giffen finds the ' masses ' now obtain • See Appendix C. p. 207. ' -* See Appendix D. p. 207. 206 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. more abundantly than they could fifty years ago, can be pur- chased out of 12s. a week, when there are also rent, coals, light and clothing to be provided, and perhaps an invalid or aged relative to be helped ! A movement in the direction of spreading trade organisa- tion among women has been commenced. It is only in its early stages ; no radical change in the rates of remuneration has yet been attempted, but many cases of small improvements might be cited, and there have been successful temporary com- binations in the mill districts against reductions of wages, such as that at Dewsbury, entirely conducted by women. One important result has been the admission of women as delegates of their trade societies to the Annual Trades Union Congress, and a marked decrease of the hostility formerly shown by workmen towards the work of women — a natural hostility so long as that work assumed the form of totally disorganised competition. A centre of agitation and encouragement has been esta- blished at 36 Grreat Queen Street, Long Acre, where an increas- ing number of inquiries are received from all parts of the country, showing that a feeling in favour of union among work- women is steadily developing. Greneral information about the movement will be found in the Women's Union Journal and other papers published by the Central League. APPENDICES. A. Industrial Class, Males .... 4,795,178 „ „ Females. . . . 1,578,189 Some of the largest industries in which women are employed, in England and Wales : — From the Census Returns of 1881. Milliners and Dressmakers . . . 357,995 Cotton, Flax and Lace . 355,323 Wool and Worsted . 124,855 Shirtmakers and Seamstresses . 81,865 Mixed Materials, Textile . 59,893 Tailoresses ..... . 52,980 THUKSDAY MOENING. 2or Silk 39,694 Shoe and Boot making .... 35,672 Straw Manufacture 27,983 Hosiery 21,510 Earthenware 17,877 Glove Making 13,261 Bookbinding 10,592 Fvirniture (Upholstery and French Polishmg) 10,014 Nail Manufacture 9,138 Hat Manufacture (not straw) . . . 9,072 Box Making 8,718 Tobacco and Cigars . . . . . 8,575 Paper Manufacture 8,277 There are 53 industries employing from 1,000 to 8,000 female workers, and a large number below 1,000. Domestic servants (women) now number 1,545,302 ; and women engaged in agriculture, 64,840. B. 'Besides compelling the use of the basest materials, the de- mand for cheapness debases the art of the printer by discouraging^ any effort at perfection on his part. Instead of doing his work in artistic fashion, with excellence for his aim, the journeyman, harassed by pressure to do his task within a space of time wholly inadequate for its proper performance, produces a result which otherwise he would be ashamed of. No consideration whatever is given to the manner of the work, so long as it is done in as short a time as possible. * Not only ia priating, but throughout all the industries, the wretched results of the tyranny of competition are seen, and, alas ! workmen go on making cheap and nasty things until they lose the ability to make anything good at all. ' Fortunately there are some customers who know good work from bad, and they take pains to seek for it, and are content to pay a fair price for it when found.' — Caslon's Circular, 1884. C. Unmarried women 35 years of age and upwards, in England and Wales, 595,971. D. Women aged 70 to 75 Men 191,622 158,333 208 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. Discussion. Mrs, Ellis (Huddersfield Pattern Weavers) said that she held in her hand a pamphlet written a short time back by Mr. Giffen, in which he said that i^attern weavers in Huddersfield earned 16s. per week fifty years ago, and at the present time 25s. To this statement she must give an emphatic denial. To-day the men weavers in Huddersfield did not average more than 20s. The women were paid from 15 to 30 per cent, less than the men, and did not average more than 15s. per week. Pattern weavers were the best of weavers, who were expected to earn more than other men. Again, Mr. Giffen said that fifty years ago weavers had 12s. per week, and at the present time 26s. True, they get more money now than was paid fifty years ago., but that did not prove that they got a fair share of the profits. I may say (continued Mrs. Ellis) I have woven hundreds of yards of the cloth I am wearing at 6hd. per yard ; and if you look at it, Sir (presenting the corner of her mantle to Sir Charles W. Dilke, to the great amusement of the meeting), you will find that most of it is shoddy (great laughter), and the warp is cotton. Certainly there is a bit of good worsted on the face. (Renewed laughter.) I have often heard that the worsted costs 2s. 6d. per pound, but one pound will weave more than a yard. Of course it has to go through other hands than mine, but when it is sold at 9s. per yard, I don't think I get a fau^ share of the profit. (Applause.) Then, again, since I can remember, which is not quite fifty years ago, the manu- facturers in our district were quite content to live in houses of not more than four rooms, with one maid of all work. (Hear, hear.) Bvit what do we see to-day ] We are surrounded with villas that are almost mansions, compared with those their forefathers lived in, and quite a staff of domestic servants. To my mind, manufacturers are not content now if they do not make more money in twenty years than used to be made in fifty. I conclude by saying with a poetess, — We ask a fair price for our labour, Tliat men may be honest and true, In justice to peer and to peasant We'll give honour where honour is due. (Loud cheers.) Mr. G. Sedgwick (Boot and Shoe Riveters and Finishers' Union, Leicester) said that the questions under discussion were of special interest to his trade, which had been revolutionised by the introduc- tion of machinery and subdivision of labour. Under the hand-sewn method of shoemaking a man did all the work at home, and homes THUESDAY MOENING. 209 were thus made workshops for the manufacture of employers' goods, and he regretted to state that the same e^dl largely obtained under the new system. The workman had, involuntarily, to lose much of his time going to and from his employer's shop, and being kept waiting about for work. This not only engendered unsteady habits, but also compelled the man to work almost day and night, in order to make up for the time so lost. Physical exhaustion naturally followed, and any desire for mental improvement was gone. This state of thincrs could be remedied by the employment of the workmen upon the premises of the employers, thereby bringing about more regular, if not continuous work. The majority of the men in his trade would be very much surprised to hear statements that were made as to the avei-age of their earnings. There were not, he estimated, more than forty-four working weeks in a year. The loss of time incurred in waiting for work fell to the worker by piece. The employer had little or no inducement to facilitate the distribution of work for the benefit of workmen ; if he did, his weekly wage staff would have to be increased. The highest estimate that could be given of the wattes of working shoemakers, taking the whole country, was 23s. a week and few gentlemen would say that that was an extravagant wao^e hkely to be spent in 'champagne' or in 'legs of mutton for dogs.' (Hear, hear.) The detestable system of 'sweating' still prevailed in the trade, in which a number of young boys were employed as half- timers. As a member of the Leicester School Board, he had visited the schools attended by half-timers, and he found the boys were often so exhausted that to secure proper attention to the lessons bein» taught was a most difficult matter, the efforts to make them pass the standards and earn the grants adding mental to physical exhaustion. This evil could be remedied only by inducing the manufacturers instead of employing men under the ' middleman,' or ' sweating ' system, to have all the workers inside the factories under pi-oper supei'vision. This would reduce to a minimum the large number of half- taught boys and unskilled men that now bring so much discredit on the trade. (Hear, hear.) He and his fellow- woi-kers did not oppose machinery at all, although its introduction was detrimental to some of the best interests of the workmen; he did hold that they, as workmen, had a right to participate in the profits that are brought by machinery. It was of no use saying, ' Look at the vast good machinery is confei'ring upon the community ! ' What good was it to a man to talk about the good you were doing to those who were comparative strangers to him, if you were bringing starvation and miseiy into his home, by reducing his wage and taking the means of living from him? Machinery and the subdivision of labour 210 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONEERENCE. combined were destroying the pride that the shoemaker used to have in his work. At one time, no tradesman in the world could be more pi'oud of his work than the working shoemaker ; but, unfortunately, in consequence of the introduction of machinery and the division of labour, this was no longer possible, as the parts of a boot on which a man had to spend conscientious labour were so small that they could not be seen when the boot was made. The esprit de corps of the old cordwainers was being entirely lost with the new system of manu- fiicture. There was no reason why a man should not take pride in his workj under a method that paid him to do it in a proper manner. While employers were complaining that we were losing our trade by foreign competition, they did not endeavour to point out why it was going. If they left the boys, just entering the trade, to try and pick it up as best they could, they encouraged unsteadiness and other bad habits, for the boys were compelled to go from shop to shop and from town to town endeavouring to learn a tiade, which should have been taught by skilled workmen and under proper tuition. (Hear, hear.) For the workman to know only a small portion of his trade reduced his chance of continuous employment to a minimum, lowered the px'ice of labour, and flooded the labour market. In his opinion, therefore, remediable causes do influence prejudicially — (a) Continuity of industrial employment, (b) The rates of wages, (c) The well-being of the working classes. Whatever statisticians might say, the workmen would never feel content vmtil they had that portion of the profit on their labour which they had honestly earned. (Applause.) Mr. H. W. Rowland (Cab-drivers' Society) said it might be pre- sumptuous in him to contest propositions laid down by Professor Marshall, but he felt bound to contest a most essential portion of the professor's paper. A man who had stood well at his univei'sity, and taken the stroke oar of the university boat, was able to fight the battle of life better than a mere bookworm. Among workmen, exactly as among university men, a man who took a proper interest in sport did sometimes commit the cidme of looking at a sporting paper, and he was as good a man or better in all that concerned the welfare of his fellow-men, as the man who had never seen a boat-race, nor committed the ciime of witnessing a running match. Last Sunday he went from one end of London to the other to assist in organising, in one of the poorest parts of London, a public procession with the object of getting a few shillings for a convalescent home some distance from London organised by working people. A member of his society came up to him and said, ' You are walking the streets. The people want something to liven them up. If your hospital THURSDAY MORNING. 211 demonstration does nothing else, it gives them a little change. Can you wonder,' he said, * at the people here having half a crown " on " now and again, and enjoying the excitement of waiting a week or ten days until the event comes off?' (Laughter.) Without the sporting press, in his humble judgment, the life of workers would be consider- ably duller than it is now. (No, no.) At Derby on Boxing Day there were 6,000 people on the racecourse watching the game of football. It was a cold and miserable day, and that was the only change that strait-laced Derby had to offer the poor working people on their holiday. If they had gone to the reading-room, 5,800 of them would have had to wait outside for their turn to enter. Could you blame them for reading the sporting papers, and sometimes having hah" a crown ' on ' a race 1 A terrible amount of misery was produced every year by gambling on the London Stock market and the bourses of the world. In two days they had only touched the fringe of the question. Had they had the same opportunity of exposing the tactics of the Stock Exchange and the bourses, as the sporting press gave them of dissecting sporting juggles, they would be in a considerably better position for dealing with the question. The continuity of employment was not a matter so much affected by the con- sideration whether he could live on a shilling a day or his neighbour on Is. 3d., as it was affected by joint-stock operations to gain 10 per cent. or 15 per cent, by juggling with labour all over the world. The man had not arisen who could lead them out of the difficulty. If he did arise, he would have to thoroughly overhaul the operations of the stock markets of the world. The excitement of Frenchmen on the Paris Bourse exceeded that in the betting ring of English racecourses. (Question.) In his opinion this was the question. The misery was really imposed upon us by the stock markets of the world. The juggling that went on in them had more than anything else to do with the continuity and the proper remuneration of labour all over the world. Mr. Neil McLean (Edinburgh Tirades Council) said that those who were forced into competition with the labour of women knew that the tendency of employers was not to raise the wages of women to the level of those of men, but it was rather to lower the wages of men to the level of those of women. In a vast number of industries in which the labour of women was employed, the sweating system prevailed, and this practically set at nought the Factory Acts, as they could not reach the women in their own homes. Indeed, the Factory Acts as they were administered were a fiii'ce. Mrs. Paterson recom- mended stopping an hour earlier on Saturdays instead of breaking off for dinner. But in Edinburgh there was no recognised dinner- p 2 212 INDUSTEIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. hour on Saturdays, and labour was continued for seven and eight consecutive hours without the slightest attempt on the part of the factory inspectors to stop the work. One means of promoting con- tinuity of labour would be a more stringent bankruptcy law. It was to a large extent reckless speculation, that in times of prosperity causfed the production of goods in excess of all purchasing power. Crises ensued, rates of wages fell, and many were depiived of employment. A more stringent bankruptcy law would do some- thing to diminish reckless speculation. Mr. Joseph Hope (Scotch Railway Servants) said that Mrs. Paterson gave it as her opinion that reduction of hours would tend to continuity of employment. He believed it was true, and it was equally true with respect to railway servants. If the hours of rail- way servants were reduced, as they ought to be, many more men would be required. Mechanical appliances had involved more work on the part of railway employes. Many pointsmen had six times more to do than they had a few years ago, and their hours bad not been reduced. Pointsmen were kept on duty as a rule 12 hours per day, and they had often to woi'k overtime, and these long houx-s kept down wages, because at the end of the fortnight the managers added up a man's wages, and they said, ' Why, you are the best paid workman in the city.' And yet the rank and file of the body were among the worst paid, taking into account the long hours worked and the re- sponsible and hazardous nature of their employment. If the hours of the pointsmen and others were reduced, and overtime prevented, the well-being of the whole service would be improved. In this respect no doubt railway servants might do more for themselves than they were doing at present. Railways had been created by the Legislature, and it was its duty, on public grounds, to reduce the hours of railway servants, and to give them better opportunities of reading and think- ing. If something were not done, there would be loud complaint, for, in comparison with other classes, the opportunities and advantages of railway servants were unjustly limited. Mr. A. H. Dyke Acland (Central Co-operative Board) said that if the Conference were to lead to anything practical, one valuable out- come would be careful statistical inquiries, conducted, not by one class of people, but by representatives of all classes, including especially the working classes. Mrs. Paterson alluded to the suggestion made by Mr. Broadhurst in the Fall Mall GazeMe the other day as to the direct employment of workmen who co-operated in executing con- tracts. We were always thinking how we could promote the employ- ment of workpeople with their own capital, and all the time many of the co-operative societies had so much money they did not know what to do with it. The problem for society as well as co-operators THURSDAY MORNING. 213 appeared to be, how could this capital be usefully employed for the advantage of working people in carrying on work to be managed by themselves? Between the years 1862 and 1872 the capital of the co-operators increased about twice as quickly as at the present day. The reason why it was not accumulating so rapidly now was, because the co-operators did not know what to do with the money. Whereas the Industrial and Provident Societies Act allowed each member to hold 200/. of share capital in his society (upon which in nearly all societies 5 per cent, was paid), many societies now were saying to their members, ' You shall not leave more than 1001. or 50/. or even 30/. with us.' So the money which might be saved out of the accumu- lation of dividend on purchases made at the store was thrown back on members and often wasted. This happened even among agricultural labourers. In an out-of-the-way agricultural district there was a store, managed by farm labourers, which did a business of 17,000/. a year, though the village in which it was situated had only a population of 1,100. They had accumulated so much money that they did not really know what to do with it. One member of the store said he had in his house 6/. more a year than he had ever before ; not given to him by anybody, but made for him by the society to which he belonged. Another sharelKilder said he had ' eaten and clothed him- self into a house : ' what he meant was that he had saved money in dividend on his purchases on food and clothing at the store which had remained at the store at 5 per cent., and with which he had bought a house. This accumulated capital was being now thrown back upon the members because the co-operators did not know what use to make of it. A question well worthy of consideration was, how to utilise such capital in productive or manufacturing enterprise by working people so as to make 5^ per cent, upon it, instead of so many thousand pounds lying comparatively idle at the bankers of the co-operative societies Several societies had upon 30,000/. to 50,000/. lying idle at their bankers. These societies paid 5 per cent, to their members on their deposit. If a safe 5 or 5^ per cent, could be made by pro- ductive work to supply their own stores there would be tens of thou- sands of pounds forthcoming from the societies for investment. If we were to improve in matters of this kind, thinking people might well occupy themselves with this subject with a view of furthering the important principle of helping people to help themselves. Professor Marshall, in rei)ly, said he agreed with two-thirds of the speech of Mr. Rowland, who, however, was mistaken in regard- ing him as a bookworm. As to thousands of people watching a football match, and keeping up their interest in spite of the bitter cold, it was one of the grandest things in the world. As far as a sporting paper told one how games were carried on, instead of 214 INDUSTEIAIi EEMUNEEATION CONFEEENCE. encouraging readers to bet upon them, he had nothing to say against it. A reference to his paper would show that on this point he had been misunderstood, and that in what he said about gambling he was not speaking of the working classes chiefly ; lie was speaking about the gambling spirit that had invaded the most progressive countries of the world, and was a greater evil for the future than drunkenness ; for though not as great an evil now, it was likely to increase while drunkenness diminished. That con\detion was forced upon him fifteen years ago, when he was assisting German working men. He had high ideas of what the Germans would do with their leisure ; to his horror he found that a great many of them spent a great part of it in petty gambling. He also found that working men in America were being tempted away from the noble oppoi-tunities before them, and were speculating largely in mines ; even sei'vant girls were doing it. In writing the paper, however, he had not these things so much in view as he had the interruption to industry caused by illegitimate speculation in business ; and that illegitimate speculation was fostered by a habit of gambling which was encoui-aged even among little children, who would bet on races. He maintained that reckless gambling was in all classes a great evil, and that advancing educa- tion did not stop it, although it did stop drunkenness. It was on this account a much wider and further reaching evil, and it was one that would have to be circumscribed, unless the working classes were prepared to see their industry thrown out of gear a great deal more than it had been. Mrs. Paterson, in reply, said that no one had disputed the low- ness of women's wages, and, indeed, as a fact it was generally ad- mitted. She hoped that workmen would do all they could to help women to form societies. The working out of figures in regard to men's wages was helping trades vmions gi'eatly, by showing that trades unions had been able to raise wages, in spite of the declara- tions of professors years ago that they never could do it. As they had done it for men, there was hope that women's unions would do it for women. It was not necessary to quarrel with statisticians about their figures ; let them enjoy their statistics. Working people knew that trade societies rested on something far deeper than figures — on sympathy, and fellowship, and experience. If workers had listened to those who said that unions would not stand unless based upon strict actuarial calculations, much good would have been left undone, for so high a rate would have been fixed as to deter many from joining ; but workers had learned that figures did not rule everything in these matters. (Hear, hear.) AFTEENOON SESSION. DO ANY REMEDIABLE CAUSES INFLUENCE PREJUDICIALLY THE WELL-BEING OF THE WORKING CLASSES ? The Education of Public Opinion. By Professor Beeslt. PosiTiviSTS hold that the principal cause influencing preju- dicially the continuity of industrial employment, the rates of wages, and the well-being of the working classes, is the preva- lence of wrong theories as to the organisation of the industrial class and the duties incumbent on its members. Under the title ' industrial class ' I include its two divisions — the capi- talists, or directors of industry, and the labourers. I am pre- cluded from inquiring whether such a division should exist, because that question has been reserved for discussion to-morrow. I will merely say that, in common with the large majority of thinking persons, we regard that division as not only permanent, but advantageous to the community as a whole. What is wanted is not a transference of capital from one set of persons to another, but that those who possess it should use it well. They are not likely to do this as long as the theory prevails that it is their own ; that their title to possess it is one of right as against the rest of the community 5 that they can do what they please with it ; and that if they are so good as to devote any portion of it to purposes of a more or less public character, it is a work of supererogation entitling them to extraordinary praise. At present, no capitalist receives any censure or finds himself in any ill repute if he divides the whole 216 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. of liis profits between the two objects of gaining more wealth and providing comforts and enjoyment for himself. Those who are not quite so selfish too often satisfy their benevolent instincts by giving to what are called charitable and philanthropic schemes money which they have made by hard treatment of their workmen, thus perhaps earning a reputation for great munificence. No serious improvement will take place in the continuity of employment, or the rate of wages, or the well-being of the working classes, until public opinion treats the wealth of the capitalist as a fund entrusted to him by society, to be adminis- tered for the benefit of society, and more especially of that par- ticular group of workers for which he is responsible. I say his wealth, not his capital. The introduction of the latter word does but obscure the truth that the whole of his wealth is entrusted to him for the social purpose above mentioned, and not merely that particular portion of it which, according to Adam Smith, ' he expects to afford him a revenue ; ' or, accord- ing to Ricardo, ' is employed in production ; ' or, according to Mill, ' is destined to supply productive labour with the shelter, protection, tools, and materials which the work requires, and to feed and otherwise maintain the labourer during the process.' Looked at from the social point of view (and any other point of view is here repudiated as misleading), this wealth is en- trusted to him, not simply for production, but for production securing adequate comfort and dignity to the producers, includ- ing himself, he being, as it were, the managing partner for the rest. There need be no fear that public opinion will ever grudge Mm such reasonable superiority in comfort and even luxury as befits his position, as long as the industrial co-operation which he superintends is carried on wisely and prosperously. But it must be understood that the support of the co-operators in as much comfort and dignity as the state of the trust fund wdll permit is the first charge upon it ; and that they must not be pinched as long as the trustee has carriages, horses, handsome furniture, a cellar of wine, and a staff of domestic servants. The larger profits made during good years, instead of being used for a reckless expansion of the business, or an increased THUESDAY AFTEENOON. 217 scale of personal expenditure, are to be considered and treated as a reserve fund for providing continuous employment and a steady rate of wages in bad times. It may be asked in what respect our ideal capitalist of the future will differ from the manager of a co-operative society of the present day ? Chiefly in this. He will not be an elected officer, subject to removal, and more or less fettered by his electors. He will be the hereditary capitalist as he is now, administering his wealth according to his free discretion as he does now. Only he will be judged, and he will judge himself, by a different standard of duty. To the Socialist, who will accept no solution that fails to satisfy his demand for equality, this seems a very insufficient concession. He would rather all were poor together than submit to any hierarchical organisation of society. To this lingering metaphysical superstition we Positivists have often given a conclusive answer. It would be out of place to introduce it on the present occasion ; nor do I care to say more than that if the labourer can be assured a life of sufficient comfort and dignity he will turn a deaf ear to all subversive theories. A different objection, and one which must be dealt with more fully, will be made by others besides Socialists. How, it will be said, do you expect to induce the hereditary capitalist to take this new view of his duty ? Here, indeed, is the problem. It will not solve itself by merely being left alone. I hope I shall not be listened to with impatience if I say that we must trust mainly to the oldest, the strongest, the most universal, the most beneficent of civilising agencies, the influence of religion — religion systematically promoted by an organised body of teachers. I will not claim this field of usefulness for a new religion only. I believe that the older religions, stimulated by the example of the new one, must and will address themselves to a task so honourable and so urgent, if they would not perish quickly and without dignity. It is, indeed, no light undertaking to attempt to educate public opinion to a higher level. It can only be done gradually ; 218 INDUSTKIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. and for that reason, if for no other, it does not commend itself to the advocates of heroic remedies. But the history of civilisa- tion shows that public opinion is capable of such improvement ; and, therefore, there is nothing visionary or unpractical in the expectation that improvement may be carried further. It is not an improvement of individual characters that we are con templating. The goodness or badness of an individual is measured not by any absolute moral standard, but by the moral standard of his time ; and perhaps the proportion of good people relatively to any given population has never much varied. But the standard of conduct, the outward practice which is expected by public opinion, has been risinp- irom primaeval times to the present day. There have been intervals when it has receded under some aspects and for a time. And again, there have been periods of more rapid advance. But looking at history broadly, we may consider the rise to have been steady and con- tinuous, and in every case the agreement of the most enlightened people as to the improvement necessary has preceded its general acceptance by the public. This, then, is what we want — agreement on an ideal of industrial relations. Until that is reached heroic remedies will not be possible ; and when we reach it, they will not be needed. The Socialists unconsciously bear witness to this truth. For although they profess to place some hope in the results of universal sufifrage, they hardly conceal their preference for a sudden and violent clutch at power. It cannot be asserted with any confidence that they will not find an opportunity for this. A weak Government, a sheep-like Parliament, and a violent anonymous press, might suddenly plunge us into a European war. In such a crisis revolution of some sort could hardly be escaped : and no one can feel certain that its most subversive forms would not acquire a momentary ascendency. But with- out such an opportunity the numerical weakness of Socialists, and the anarchy, which in virtue of their principles, must always prevail in their camp, deprive them of all prospect of putting their schemes in practice. In the meantime their energy and social ardour, in many cases really admirable, are wasted, and worse than wasted. For by holding out delusive THUESDAY AFTEENOON. 219 hopes of a short cut to a social millennium they divert atten- tion from the longer but safer path. Education of public opinion — that is the first and last word. At the risk of being charged with wandering from the questions proposed, I must say, however briefly, that those questions can- not be considered with much profit in isolation from much larger and more general ones on which public opinion is in the vaguest state. What, for instance, can we determine about the continuity of industrial employment when there is no agree- ment as to the regulation of production, or whether it should be regulated at all ? How can we profitably consider the rates of wages until we have settled the theory of wages ? Is the labourer a man with a commodity to sell, or is he a public servant doing his duty to the community, and having a claim to be supported while he is doing it ? The wages he receives, are they an equivalent for the service rendered, or are they the means of enabling him to go on fulfilling his duty as a good citizen to his fellows ? The pay of a soldier, the salary of a Cabinet Minister, are not determined from day to day by competition, nor yet by the degree of valour the one has shown, or the amount of business the other has transacted. Is there any reason why the services of a workman should be re- quited on a different principle ? Lastly, how can we consider the rates of wages unless we at the same time consider the other half of the problem — the share appropriated by the employer ? As to the causes which influence prejudicially the well-being of the working classes, they can hardly be investigated to any purpose except by those who are agreed on what constitutes such well-being. In what respect, if any, does it differ from the well-being of employers ? What conditions go to con- stitute the well-being of any citizen, and what is their order of importance ? When we bear in mind that social phenomena have at last begun to be studied by scientific methods, we may hope that here too agreement will gradually be reached, as has been the case in other departments of human knowledge to which those methods have been applied. When the best minds have arrived at the same conclusions, a sound public opinion will soon be 220 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. formed, and we shall then have the means we want for in- fluencing the possessors of wealth. Hitherto many of the most accredited economic doctrines, though worked out with irreproachable logic, have started from the unsound assump- tion that the laws of the production of wealth could be studied usefully apart from sociology as a whole. The consequence has been that public opinion, instead of being enlightened by such speculation, has been disastrously led astray. But before taking refuge in revolutionary remedies, or endeavour- ing to supersede voluntary action by State interference, let us try what voluntary action can do when the public mind is not carefully poisoned by erroneous theories. Such a programme has, at all events, this advantage, that those who believe in it can begin to work at it at once, nay, are already working at it without asking leave of anybody. Whereas the Socialist cannot even begin to apply his remedy till he has first fought his way to political power at the polling booth, if not behind barri- cades. Keligion will afford the principal systematic means of in- fluencing the holders of wealth. But subsidiary means will not be wanting. The refusal of the workman to remain con- tent with his present condition will contribute powerfully to the same result. The spread of education, and the higher scale of comfort reached during the period of prosperity that came to an end some ten years ago, have raised his require- ments. The decrease in the consumption of intoxicating liquors shows that he is struggling to retain the higher level of living which he then learned to relish. And whatever economists may say, as soon as workmen generally refuse to accept a mere subsistence wage, the rate of wages will rise. Again, there is the action of trades unions. Improve the relations of capitalist and labourer as much as you will, there will always remain a need for these standing combinations to put a wholesome pressure on such employers and labourers as are inclined to defj public opinion. The time will come when the large majority of employers will look to trades unions as a most valuable protection against the greedy competition of the worst members of the employing class. THUKSDAY AFTEENOON. 221 Lastly, there is the action of the State. Although we con- demn the intention of the Socialists to use the power of the State if they can get hold of it, even for a moment, to enforce their revolutionary schemes on an unprepared and unwilling community, we are quite willing that when public opinion has grown sufficiently, Grovernment should second it cautiously with such measures as do not outstep its proper sphere. Since a beginning was made by the earliest Factory Acts, there has been an immense amount of legislation for the purpose of pro- tecting the public, and especially the poorer portion of it, against the effects of individual cupidity and unbridled com- petition. Mr. Herbert Spencer has recently compiled a cata- logue of it, which will be read by most people with very different feelings from those of the compiler. There is no doubt room for further progress in this direction. I anticipate the criticism that my remarks have been rather wide of the questions set down for discussion. I would plead in excuse that my paper is a very short one, that I have refrained from saying what I thought likely to be said by others, and, finally, that I have gone to the root of the matter. Do any Remedial Causes Injiuence Prejudicially the Well being of the Working Classes'? By W. J. Haekis, M.P. It may be accepted as an axiom that that nation which keeps its whole population employed by the variety of its resources is the most prosperous within itself. Other nations may be able to show a larger amount of accumulated property, but the immense wealth of the few is not, as a rule, any proof of the contentment of the many. On the contrary, when only a few are in possession of great wealth and the many are short of work, it shows an unhealthy state of the body corporate. That this state of things is the case in Great Britain can be undoubtedly asserted at the present time ; and to a larger extent is it so, than at any previous period since the great discoveries of gold, and the great development of 222 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. railways. If any evidence is required to support my assertion, I may quote the words of Mr. Chamberlain, published by him in the Fortnightly Revieiv of December 1883, since which date the facts are only the more evident. Mr. Chamberlain wrote as follows : ' Never before was the misery of the very poor more intense, or the conditions of their daily life more hopeless or de- graded.' And again: 'But the majority of the toilers and spinners have derived no proportionate advantage from the prosperity which they have helped to create ; while a population equal to that of the whole metropolis has remained constantly in a state of abject destitution and misery.' I am aware of the reply usually given to the above assertion, namely, that the returns of pauperism disprove it. But everyone who has any- thing to do with the relief of the poor knows well the cause of the decrease is the refusal of outdoor relief. It is also a well- known fact that the associations of working-men, such as trades unions and benefit societies, have taken a large amount of the unemployed labour off the poor rates, and yet the salient fact remains that there is more money spent in actual relief of the poor than there ever was before. In calculating the wages of our working classes at the present time, and the amount they have for their own use, these extra charges on their resources must be taken into account. The compulsory education of children and the subscriptions to trades unions and benefit societies abstract from the present wages part of that advance which economists have successfully proved has taken place dm:ing the last thirty or fifty years. When trades unions first became the rule amongst oar working classes, political economists were loud in their denunciation of the principles in- volved. The most farseeing among the Free Trade school of thought saw plainly enough that if working-men established rules of labour for themselves, which were intended to advance their own position in the social scale, the competition from foreign countries would ultimately overtake us in om- large industries.' They felt that in order to keep our supremacy we ' This feeling also led to the opposition on the part of many free traders to the Factory Act legislation which has done so much to benefit the working classes. THURSDAY AFTERNOON. 223 required our raw material at the lowest possible price; our machinery at the lowest price and greatest excellence ; our capital at a low rate of interest, and our wages at a rate not relatively above that of other countries. The workmen agreed with all these conditions except the last. They main- tained that they had a right to unite in order to raise wages, and the trades unions of this country are still far too popular among working-men for us to think of trying to upset them. It is the system which the men have chosen for themselves, and our political economists will do well at once to acknowledge the will of the people in this respect, and instead of denouncing" such associations, to try and connect them with Grovernment action, and to find out in what ways they may be made useful for the furtherance of British industry. The first recommenda- tion I would make, therefore, is that the system of trades unions should be the acknowledged system of labour in this country, and that a department of the Grovernment should be devoted to the gradual improvement of the system, and to the experimental development of both agriculture and manufactures, by means of technical colleges supported from the imperial revenue. The first results of trades unionism which require to be checked are the ' strikes ' and ' lock-outs.' If both the masters and the men formed associations which could be represented in the proposed department of the Grovernment, these two lament- able occurrences might be made impossible by arbitrators appointed by Grovernment itself. Of course all the money that is spent by trades unionists for the support of a ' strike ' is money lost to their class and likewise to the country. Also the losses of the masters either by a ' strike ' or a ' lock-out ' is money wasted and in every contract which capitalists make, they have to calculate a considerable sum for the contingency. I would pro- pose that manufacturers should be able to make labour contracts with the authorised managers of trades unions for specified work or for fixed wages for a specified limited period. The labour representatives would have the opportunity of investigating the state of trade in the same department in foreign countries, and a fair rate of wages, or piece-work, if preferred, could be at once arranged. The funds of the trades union would be responsible 224 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. for the observance of such a contract. In case wages rose during the completion of the particular contract so as to make the indivi- dual men dissatisfied, their wages would have to be supplemented from the central funds of the trades union. On the other hand, if the wages or price of work in the particular department de- clined, the subscriptions of the contract men to the funds of their unions would have to be proportionately advanced, thus preventing their earning materially more or less than their fellow- men. The results would be that capital would be put into constructive works with more confidence, and that in cases where contracts were taken at a settled price by the trades union authority, the talent of every man engaged would be called forth to discover means by which savings could be effected. Joining the unions must be a matter of option on the part of every man, but when enrolled the bye-laws should be made compulsory by law. The terms of labour ought to be the same for all employers, in a given area, though special allowances would be needed for the superior accommodation of the men. These special allow- ances would act as a premium to employers to provide com- fortable houses for their workpeople. The rate of subscription of the men would need to be fixed at a liberal sum at the com- mencement. Thus I propose to make trades unions rich and legally constituted bodies, who can deal with capitalists and whose contracts will be enforcible by law. If one of the results should be that trades unions became in time the owners of constructive works, and able to undertake contracts of their own, without the intervention of the capitalist, the country has no need to fear such a development, seeing that we might thus be better able to meet foreign competition. The next point to be decided is the position which these bodies should occupy towards their competitors in foreign countries. It is to the interest of both the employers and the employed that those manufactures which can be made in this country, should not be imported free of duty. The opening of our markets to all raw materials, whether of food or manufacture, has been a benefit to the majority of our workmen. The open- THUESDAY AFTERNOON. 225 ing of our ports to the free introduction of manufactured goods, and even of half-manufactured goods, has been of great dis- advantage to the wage-earning class. It is true that some of these half-manufactured goods are used in certain trades as a means of producing a cheaper finished article, but when an in- ducement arose to produce the same thing in this country, means would probably be found for making it as cheaply here, and, moreover, there are hardly any of our exported goods that require in their manufacture any admixture of foreign substances other than the raw material. It is almost entirely in goods used by ourselves, and almost entirely in those used by the rich, that these foreign additions are necessary. The increase in the import of these manufactured goods from abroad during the free import era is very remarkable. I will compare the imports of certain articles of manufacture for the years 1855 and 1883. Here it is : — ImjJOi'ts of certain Manufactured and Half-manufactured Articles.^ 1855 1883 £ £ Clocks 120,000 405,000 Watches . 218,000 470,000 Artificial Flowers 74,000 450,000 -China Ware 47,000 538,000 Confectionery . — 410,000 Silk Manufactures 1,900,000 11,080,000 Woollen Manufactures 1,045,000 7,780,000 Eefined Sugar . 648,000 4,276,000 Sawn-up and Manuf . Wooc 3,900,000 11,500,000 Paper 47,000 1,250,000 Flour. 2,300,000 12,200,000 Glass .... 83,000 1,440,000 Cotton Manufactures 240,000 2,400,000 Gloves 228,000 1,875,000 Lace 88,000 650,000 Linen Manufactures . 68,000 570,000 Musical Instruments . 83,000 718,000 Toys .... 51,000 456,000 Cordage and Twine . 78,000 417,000 Boots and Shoes 88,000 250,000 Hats and Bonnets 81,000 180,000 ' In this list I have deducte d th( 3 re-exports for 1883 Had I not done so the difference would have been still more pronounced. 226 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNEKATION CONFERENCE, During the year 1884, which has been a time of extreme depression in our industries, and when the export of our manu- factures has decreased by nearly 7,000,000?., the import of those manufactured goods from foreign countries which are included in Board of Trade returns has actually increased, thus showing how this trade has intensified the distress. With regard to made-up garments which enter our ports in large quantities from France, Belgium, and Grermany, I would propose an almost prohibitory duty. The import of such goods takes away from the earning power of the wives and daughters of the poor ; and workmen know well how the supplemental earnings of this sort add to the comfort of their families. It is not as though the countries I have mentioned reciprocated by taking similar goods from us to any extent. Nearly all the made-up clothes which we export go to our colonies and the comparatively young countries from which we obtain raw material in exchange. Eetaliation on the part of any of these neighbouring European countries would be most impolitic on their part, seeing that we import far more manufactured goods from them than they do from us. Advert- ing to the list of manufactured goods which I have already given, I will take the case of that one which will be most questioned by my audience as being an article of food — namely, flour. If a duty were placed upon foreign flour the effect would simply be an increase in the milling power at home. It is well to consider attentively tlie views enunciated in other countries instead of being engrossed by English ideas of Political Economy, which certain irresponsible doctrinaires have laid down for us. I will read an extract from an American newspaper in regard to the very manufacture which we have under considera- tion, and which shows their appreciation of a national necessity which exists for finding profitable employment for workmen in every conceivable way. The extract follows on an interesting account of some enormous flour mills being constructed in Minneapolis, and runs as follows : — * We are glad to chronicle the announcement of such an enter- prise, not only because we are proud of the growth and progress of the manufacturing industries of the great North-west, but for the still THUESDAY AFTEEXOOX. 227 better reason that we believe that our entire surphis wheat crop ought to be expoi'ted in the shape of manvifactured flour, instead of in its raw state, as the greater proportion of it now is. We hope the day is not far distant when not a bushel of wheat will be ex- ported from this country. It is the life and the vitality of the soil that is exported with the wheat, but which is saved and returned to it in the refuse product of the mill, turned into food for stock. And this, to say nothing of the labour furnished to the army of workmen required to carry on the work growing out of the operations of the great mills required to turn the hundreds of millions of bushels of wheat into the manufactured flour.' I maintain that the advantages claimed by the Americans for keeping the manufacture in their own country are advan- tages which ought to be to a large extent transferred to the benefit of British workmen. If, in place of importing all this flour, we were only import- ing the raw material. Wheat, free of duty, and making it into flour ourselves, we should at once require to build at least one hundred large flour-mills in this country. There is no difficulty in making wheat into flour here, any more than there is in America, and the brau and pollard which comes on the wheat, would be used in the manufacture of Meat in England, instead of the United States ; thus giving to our farmers a most valuable supply of cattle food which they do not now possess. As to the balance of trade it would be in no way affected, but the very first step we took in the way of a departure from free imports would be followed in the United States by a great reaction from the system of excessive protection. The persons engaged in agriculture and all its connected trades, the holders of railway property and all persons connected with real property other than those engaged in manufacturing industry, would fear further steps on oiu- part, and would vote in favour of a relaxation of their tariff, amounting in time to reciprocal interchange with very moderate duties on those manufactures which both coun- tries can alike produce. A country which raises its revenue by internal taxes, which fall more or less on its industries and on its wage-earning classes, has no right to admit the manufactures which compete with its Q 2 228 INDUSTRIAL REMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. own, without charging a duty at least equivalent to the amount of taxes so raised. In England we have allowed burdens to remain on the production of food which belonged to the days of pro- tection. It is generally considered right that food in its raw state should enter our ports free ; but if that be so it is the more necessary at the same time to put our farmers in a position to produce it in competition with foreign farmers. The conversion of large tracts of English land into grass, and especially into poor grass, is a disadvantage to the nation, and greatly lessens the employment of labour ; and while fairly re-^ ducing all agricultural burdens,! would propose to entirely relieve all agricultural land kept in alternate tillage by a return to the occupier of a sum equivalent of all the burdens it now bears. By this means the farmer would be encouraged to keep his land in alternate husbandry, which produces far more food, and em- ploys far more labour, than when laid down to poor grass. It would simply mean that that style of farming would be main- tained which is most conducive to the wealth of the nation and to the prosperity of the labouring classes. With regard to the production of wheat, there are special national considerations which make it desirable to maintain, and if possible increase, our acreage under that crop, and T con- sider that it would be a wise step for the nation to offer a special inducement for its production in years when the average price is less than 45s. per quarter. Of course I shall be told that this is putting money into the landowner's pocket, but the most superficial reasoner must be aware that the farmer would not- adopt that style of farming which has become the least bene- ficial to himself unless he received the premium for so doing, and the large increase in the demand for agricultural labourers would undoubtedly tend to raise the scale of farm, wages. The landowners, who might receive some benefit, would be those who own land unfit for pasture, and as the rent of this land has gone back to a most unremunerative price (in fact, much of it is running to waste) I cannot see that anyone need grudge to them some improvement in their present position. When Cobden advocated the repeal of the duty on foreign corn, his great argument was that the result would be a rise in agri- THUESDAY AFTEENOON. ■ 229 cultural wages in corn-producing countries, and his prediction was fulfilled. Although the length of this paper does not allow me to go further, yet I consider there are other forms of industrial pro- perty, such as mines, &c., which should also have relief from taxation, whether it be local or imperial. The means of raising revenue for these purposes should be collected from revenue duties on imported foreign manufac- tures, by a small tax on personal property other than that of stock-in-trade, and by an increase in the wine and spirit duties. I consider the result of my recommendations would be that the working classes would receive more remimeration for, and would have more variety in, their labour, without raising the price of any article that is necessary to them. An improve- ment in their dwellings must also be the subject of legislation. I would recommend that import duties shovdd be placed on all manufactured goods coming from foreign countries, without exception, but that they should be divided into classes. F'or instance, the lightest taxed should be flour, sawn timber, and such-like goods, on which a very small amount of labour has been spent. A higher rate should be charged on such manu- factured goods as are consumed in large measure by the upper and middle classes, and a still larger duty on those articles of luxury and complicated workmanship, of which the greater part of the value represents labour. All raw materials, except those which are bounty-fed, ought to be imported free, and if the Cobdenite assertion be well founded, that goods must be paid for with goods, the increase in our imports of raw materials would have to be paid for by the export of our own manu- factures, while the increased prosperity of our farmers would react on our internal trade in such a manner as to create a largely increased exchange of goods at home, which would benefit all classes. I wish, however, to guard myself against all agreement with the Cobdenite writers when I quote any of their opinions. Before concluding this paper, I must add that I consider the Government should ai-range special terms with all of the Colo- nies for grants of land for our workmen to emigrate to, and that it might be a mode of investment for trades union funds to 230 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. advance money on mortgage on the holdings of these emigrants in our own Colonies. While advocating discriminating duties against foreign powers, I should strive for the nearest possible approach to free exchange between all parts of the Empire, and if it were necessary for attaining this end that imperial guarantees should be given for capital invested in great pro- ductive works, such as railways, &c., I consider it would be a suitable employment of national credit, provided the materials of construction were largely taken from home or colonial work- shops. Certain of our Colonies are so dependent for their revenue on import duties, that we could only ask them to differentiate them in our favour. A differential duty of even o per cent, in our favour w^ould probably be sufficient to keep our trade secure. In conclusion, I believe that every proposal which tends to upset confidence in the holding of property will do incalculable mischief by drawing capital away from the country, and by stopping the outlay of money on those improvements which are now so urgently needed. Cheap conveyance of real estate is very necessary. Lord Cairns' Act has provided a means by which the ' Law of Entail' has lost its piincipal objections, but there is room for further legislation. The poor certainly ought to be able to buy property as easily as the rich, but the rich ought not to be compelled to sell without their own consent what, in most cases, represents the stored-up industry of their ancestors. There is no space in this Paper for me to enter on the Temperance question, but everyone must agree with me in believing that there is great room for improvement in all classes of society. I believe it would be wise as a first step to abolish the power of issuing new licenses for the next ten years, and rather than buying reciprocity at the expense of diminishing the wine and spirit duties, I consider they ought to be largely increased. I acknowledge no ' laws of Political Economy ' except those which for the time being most benefit the greatest number in our own Empire. Foreign countries have shown us no con- THUESDAY AFTERNOON. 231 sideration, and it has become our turn to show our power. The proposals to make the Empire, as far as possible, self- supporting, will undoubtedly come prominently before the electorate. The Food question would in such a case become the battle-ground. I consider this question to be one of immense importance for the working classes themselves to consider without prejudice. No proposal coming from interested persons for the taxa- tion of the raw material of food will be listened to. It is entirely a people's question, and it will be decided by the people. Foreign nations must be well aware that from a national point of view there is much to be urged in favour of making the Empire self-supporting, and they would therefore do wisely to understand the position, and make timely con- cessions in the direction of reciprocity, before the working classes take the matter into their own hands. I recommend to the working classes of this country to avoid being led away by irresponsible doctrinaires, and to remember that one ounce of practice is worth a ton of theory, and that a practical exam- ination of our fiscal system by men who are not shackled by theory has now become absolutely necessary to the well-being of the whole nation. The Conditions of Industrial Prosperity. By W. H. Houldsworth, M.P. I HAVE been asked to reply to the question, ' Do any artificial or remediable causes influence prejudicially (1) the stability of industrial employment, (2) the steadiness of rates of wages ? ' But the first question is — How much ' stability ' is to be expected in industrial employments ? and, secondly. Is ' steadi- ness ' in ' rates of wages ' either possible or desirable ? In fact, before we begin to form theories on industrial questions, we ought clearly to comprehend the conditions which 232 INDUSTKIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. govern trade of every kind in every place. And when these are understood they must not be lost sight of. All subsidiary questions must revolve round them and bear constant reference to them. A doctor cannot prescribe for a human being with any chance of success unless he pays attention to the laws, physical, mental, and moral, which govern human life. A farmer cannot till his ground with any good prospect of a crop unless he works in harmony with Nature. The primary conditions of a problem must be taken into account in its solution. Doctrinaires sometimes forget these. The practical man never does. He refers every new question to them, and generally finds that they settle, at once and for ever, one-half of the puzzles which are propounded to him. The first condition which industry demands in order that it may live and grow is freedom — freedom to spring where it likes, to flow where it likes, to alter its course as it likes, to disappear if it likes. ' Noli me tangere ' is the true password of industry. And to the thousand voices which from time to time press on us nostrums for the revival of dying trade, the only real and sensible answer is, ' Why can't you let it alone ? ' If you meddle with it you will most likely kill it altogether. History is full of examples. Grive it fresh air and perfect freedom to move ; then there if not here, in the future if not now, in its own way, and in accordance with the laws of its own being, it will spring into vigour again. Follow it, but do not attempt to guide it or control it. Make use of it wherever its beneficent streams will naturally flow, but do not attempt to dam it up here or direct it there by artificial obstacles, contrary to its own nature and in opposition to its own laws. The effect of such an attempt has always been and always will be to check its flow, to reduce its volume, ultimately to dry up its source. In endeavouring to irrigate yoiu' own little patch of ground contrary to Nature, you will rob your neighbours and not enrich yourself. Freedom, then, must be allowed to industry. And if so, a study of the natural laws which will govern its course becomes all the more important. It is to no purpose that we try to evolve a scheme for the better regulation of meteorological phenomena, when we know that ' the wind bloweth where it THUKSDAY AFTEENOON. 233 listeth,' and that forces are at work in the world of clond and storm which are free to act according to their own nature, and which brook no restraint except such as their own laws impose. In like manner, it is no use endeavouring to obtain results in the world of trade which are incompatible with the primary- principles which govern trade. It is better to learn these principles thoroughly, to study their action, to regulate our course by them, and to moderate our expectations, and even our desires, within reasonable limits — in other words, to descend from the Utopian to the obtainable. All industry is governed by the great law of supply and demand. This law is to trade what the law of gravitation is to matter. One of its first effects is to cause fluctuation. Trade changes its character, its volume, its intensity, and its value, according to the ever-varying proportion between demand and supply. Demand is ever changing; so is supply. Every variation in the one or the other makes a corresponding varia- tion (perceived or unperceived) in values, in cost, in wages, and in profits. How, then, is it possible to have any 'stability of industrial employment,' or any ' steadiness in rates of wages ' ? As I have said, it is a question whether, if stability and steadiness (that is, no falls, but also no rises) were possible, it were desirable. The instability and unsteadiness of trade are its best stimulant. A sailor might as well expect stability and steadiness on the ocean, a perpetual calm or an ever-favouring breeze, as the man of business, be he capitalist or workman, expect regular trade and regular work, regular profits and regular wages. Whatever calling in life we take up, we must accept it with its conditions, and the great condition of industrial life is change. But I shall probably be told that I am evading the real issue, and the question will still be pressed upon me. Are there not ' artificial and remediable causes ' in operation at the present time which make industrial employment specially unstable, and the rates of wages specially unsteady ? 234 INDUSTEIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. I do not think there are. Trade is bad, and yet people are not going out of it. Trade is unremunerative now in compa- rison with previous periods, yet the working classes are putting their savings into it. Our exports and imports have increased d\u-ir)g the last ten years up to 1883, in which year they stood at a higher total figure than they had ever done before, and at a higher proportion per head of population except in the years 1872, 1873, and 1874. The average earnings of the working- classes have increased by 12 per cent, during the last seventeen years, as shown by Professor Levi in his late report. Altogether, though there have been fluctuations, and though undoubtedly at present trade is depressed, yet there is nothing in the statistics to which I have access seriously to cause alarm. But even if things were worse than they are, can it be said that artificial 'remediable causes 'are at work to produce them? I know of none. The only cause at work is the old one of supply and demand. I shall be told that hostile tariffs are causing the present ■depression. But is this a remediable cause? Propositions have been made for removing it. But will they succeed ? It must be remembered that those countries which have adopted and maintain a protectionist policy against our manu- factures are prospering and growing rich ; or at least they think so, which is the same thing. It must also be remembered that retaliatory tariffs can only be imposed by England with any appreciable result on food and raw material, as the importation of other articles is still small in extent or value. But would the imposition of a duty on American corn or on American cotton force the American manufacturer to admit English-made goods ? The parties affected by the two sets of tariffs are not the same. How, then, can you get a reciprocal effect ? The American farmer or cotton-planter might cry out ; but the American manufacturer would resist to the utmost his mono- poly being interfered with. On the other hand, our last state would be worse than tlie first. For with dearer corn and dearer cotton the cost of our manufactures would be enhanced, till we should lose the advantage we now enjoy over our protectionist competitors in neutral markets. THUKSDAY AFTERNOON. 235 Only two suggestions occur to me. They are not new, but being founded upon the great law which regulates trade, they cannot be too often insisted upon. The first is, open new markets. The second is, produce as cheaply as you can. Grood trade depends upon a large and wide demand, and upon a cheap supply. Every new market you can open and every reduction you can make in cost goes directly to improve trade. In carrying out the first suggestion a wise Groverument can do much. In carrying out the second, intelligent and enlightened workpeople can do more. It is to our colonies and dependencies, or to countries where free trade is guaranteed, that we must look for the markets of the future. Our exports to foreign countries have consider- ably decreased during the last ten years. But this decrease has been almost compensated for by the increase in our exports to our colonies — chiefly to India, Australia, and Africa. During the present depressed times, the cost of our produc- tions is being reduced in every direction. The future of agri- culture in this country is unfortunately not bright. But other industrial employments are only at present going through the trough of the sea, and will in my opinion soon appear, as before, on the crest of another wave, if only our rulers will be wise and patriotic and our people continue to be industrious. Home and Foreign Policy: oi\ How to Restore Pros- perity to a Distressed and Anxious People. By Stephen Haeding. The practical knowledge I have of the subject here, and what I have learned from a short residence in New Zealand and from a recent visit to Canada with its magnificent wheat- growing lands in the north-west, and also the wheat country of the United States, convince me that the English farmer, unless he is put upon equal terms, will never be able to 236 INDUSTKIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. successfully compete with his modern rival on those vast, rich alluvial plains. It is a fallacy to attribute all oiu- past success to free trade, my opinion being quite the other way —that any success we have had has been in spite of, rather than the result of, free trade ; for we must go back and re- member the enormous amount of commercial activity that was called into existence in laying down the plant, &c., in order to open up these vast regions. So long as that activity lasted the demand was great, the supply limited, and the country flourish- ing ; but when the supply exceeded the demand, then free trade became a curse and a cause of distress. We should be wrong in laying down a hard-and-fast line for all time ; circumstances vary, and what might be a blessing at one time becomes the reverse at another. We have been too long under the domina- tion of mere theorists ; if we are to have a return of prosperity, we must come back to the first principles of common sense. I therefore strongly advocate equal taxation in home and foreign produce. A fair field and no favour is what this country wants and demands — a living for the tiller of the soil ; a flourishing commerce ; a peaceful and contented people. To advance this state of things we want a confederation of all classes with the object of assisting and protecting any one class that may, from no fault of its own, be overtaken and threatened with destruction. Depend upon it, the sooner we see and recognise our interests to be identical in all classes, the better it will be for the country generally. This is no party question, but one that affects the whole tax-paying community. As it is necessary to levy taxes, let this be done in the least objectionable way. Let the foreigner be treated the same as the home producer. If the former wishes to enjoy the advantages of our markets he must be called upon to contribute his share of the tax.es. We ask no more, and shall not be satisfied with anything less. Let us see how the case now stands with reference to the cultivator of the soil. He has had ten of the most unfavourable seasons ever known ; the crops have been bad and prices low. If the land had been his own the farmer's loss would still have been a heavy one. He has neither the will nor the means to continue employing his THURSDAY AFTERNOON. 237 usual number of labourers, consequently the land ceases to grow ■wheat, and the hands that would have been employed, if that -could be grown at a remunerative price, have to emigrate or migi-ate to our towns to lower the wages there. What is the use of a cheap loaf if it is produced by depriving the people of their labour and the means of buying it ? To say it is a matter only between landlord and tenant would be to advocate the doctrine that a manufacturer or tradesman, upon loss of custom or lower- ing of profits, should not discharge any of his employes or re- duce their wages, but should look to the landlord for a reduction of rent. Such an idea is too absurd for any unbiassed practical mind. If 50 per cent, of the land sown to wheat during the seven years preceding 1884 had not only been rent free but free of taxes also, it would not have paid, at the price, to have grown it. Perhaps Mr. Bright will tell us what the farmers are to do under such circumstances. Is he not aware that India is now supplyino- us largely with wheat, and that if it is admitted free it must very much reduce our labourers' wages here. If foreign produce is to continue to be admitted duty free, let us be consistent and allow our own produce to be untaxed and free also. I should say that a tax upon imports would be more likely to slightly reduce the value of foreign land than to raise the value of our own. We are all agreed that it is necessary to maintain a standing army and navy, yet we are throwing out of cultivation the land that could support them in time of war, and are driving out of the country the men who should form the natural som-ce for filling our ranks. At whatever cost, we must return to our normal state and grow at least 4,000,000 acres of wheat, this being about the amount grown ten years ago. It is now reduced to only 2,750,588 acres. The farmers will not sow unless they have some guarantee that they will get a fair return for their labour, and they can only get that, not by robbing the landowners, but by the Govern- ment taxing the imports. It may be necessary to charge these sometimes more, sometimes less, than the home producers ; that must depend upon circumstances. One thing is certain the farmers do not want a dear loaf, what they contend is that the mass of the people would be better off with the loaf at Qd. than 238 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. they are now. Again, there is scarcely a country that has adopted free trade in the sense or nonsense in wliich we have. Are we so conceited as a nation as to think that we are the only ones in the right ? Why, foreigners, although they are well pleased, as we might expect them to be, with the result, are nevertheless laughing at our folly, for which we have so dearly paid. For years past the labourer has fared much better than his em- ployer ; whilst the former has been living upon his labour, the latter has had to subsist upon his capital or charity, both of which are now nearly exhausted. I do not suppose it is gene- rally known, but such is the fact, that for many years past the general public have been partly fed at tlie expense of the culti- vator of the soil ; that is, the people have obtained their bread at a much less price than the actual first cost. Such a state of things cannot go on for ever. It reminds me of an occurrence some years ago, when a very superior luncheon was provided at a shilling a-head ; a lady standing at my side remarked upon its excellence and cheapness, and could not understand how it could be done for the money. I suggested that it would be possible to get it even cheaper at a friend's, and informed her that the society of which we were members was acting to us as a semi-friend by paying one-half the cost. What that society willingly did for once, the farmers of England have most un- willingly done for years past in the matter of bread. It has been calculated that before wheat can be fit for the consumer there is a local tax paid of at least 4s. per quarter, Si. on a fat bullock, and 5s. on a fat sheep ; if the same tax were levied on the imports it would amount to 12 millions. We should then see a change for the better in the general condition of the country. The million labourers who have been divorced from the soil would be again required at good wages, and the desired acreage of wheat would be again sown. The party advo- cating the nationalisation of the land, the abolition of land- lordism, and the cutting up of the country into small holdings, are neither landowners themselves nor have they any practical knowledge of the subject. All that tenants want is security for capital invested and improvements made. Even the twelve- months' notice given by the late Act is a great hardship in THUESDAY AFTERNOON. 239 the case of a tenant on a poor arable farm, for the sooner he quits the less he will lose ; on the other hand, land should be made as free to buy and sell as any other commodity. Primo- geniture and entail should be abolished, and the men who have grown rich by the industry of the people should pay taxes in proportion — that is to say, those that have the capital should pay the principal part of the taxes. For instance, I would repeal the death dues — probate at least : for I look upon it as a legal robbery, unnecessary and harassing at a time of dire distress. Then, again, if it is necessary to raise 9,000,000?. on tobacco and snufip, and about 30,000,000L on spirits, beer, &c., to induce people to be moderate and sober, are not those who abstain, and who now escape the tax, better able to pay than the others that do ? I do not object to the one paying, but what I do object to is, the others not paying in proportion in some other way ; but as the abstainers are likely, perhaps, to become our future capitalists, we can legitimately tax their income, which tax should be on a sliding scale : those under 500L a year are now taxed enough, those having 10,000?. a year should pay half as much again, and so on up to the man with the highest income. We could very well, under the head of Property and Income Tax, raise 30,000,000Z. instead of, as now, 12,000,000L Let us adopt some such programme as this, and only vote at the next election for those members pledged to its adoption, and we should see our dear old country again take the proud position she so justly deserves and formerly held. Now let us see the effect and result of the present distress. Our necessity appears to have been America's opportunity, which she has made very good use of. While we have been sleeping under the narcotic of free trade, she has been quietly and peaceably undermining the stabiKty of this country by first of all taking our cash, and then in our despair many people follow. The result has been that she has added to her population over 1,000,000 a year for the last ten years, whose value must be more than enough to pay indirectly the whole of the United States' debt twice over. Such being the case, can we be sur- prised to find that they are enabled to reduce their debt directly 240 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. over 30 Diillions a year ? Another point to be taken into account is that in 1873 one-half of their public debt was held abroad. To-day nine-tenths of it is held by themselves. Their country is so vast and so rich in everything man can want or wish for, that it -will be only a short time before they will be able to do for the manufacturer, merchant, and artisan what they have already done for the labourer and cultivator of the English soil. There is nothing that this country exports but what in a few years they will be in a position to export to us. So long as those almost boundless virgin wheat lands of the North-west were kept out of the market for want of communica- tion, and labour was turned to the more speculative business of gold -mining or sheep-raising, so long did it pay to grow the wheat here. All that has now passed away, never to return, and our policy must be rearranged to the altered circumstances before we can expect to reap the benefits of which we now stand so much in need. Discussion. Mr. Patrick Geddes (Edinburgh Social Union) said, without con- testing any of the statements or proposals of the papers dealing with the well-being of the working classes, he desired to call attention to a serious omission in almost all of them. While these dealt admirably in some respects with the question of nominal wages, they did not at all adequately discuss the underlying and essential question of real wages, which he had hoped to take up. Nor did they suffi- ciently face the immediate and pressing question : — How are we to act from this day forward, without waiting for those social and legis- lative changes, however desirable, which would necessai'ily need time to come into operation 1 How were we to do something forthwith for the real well-being of the working class 1 What immediate and practical means had we already in our own hands for raising it? Parliament might help us some day, certainly not much this year, nor next. Let it be supposed that all desired legislative changes were certainly coming hi five years hence, and he fancied that political reformers, however sanguine, would gladly discount their hopes for that. Suppose, too, all would be well when we realised the ideal adjustments of capital and labour which not only Thomas Carlyle, but the great socialist Lassalle, all sanguine as he was, put two cen- tui-ies off, and which he did not think even Mr. Hyndman saw hope of TflUESDAY AFTERNOON. 241 within the present century ; the question still remained, "What can we do here and now 1 The politician constantly said, ' Just wait till these reforms of mine have come into operation ; ' but even if it were true that when reforms did come into operation all were ever well, that should not suffice us. However good a time is coming, those next three years were the best that remained to us of life, yet they bid fair to be lean and poor enough. Could we not do something now 1 What were we to do in these years of waiting for the people w^ho had to live among present facts and not on future hopes 1 Politics were all very well for the intelligent working man, and he must go in for them, but what could his wife and children cai'e for them 1 They only saw their father when he was reading his newspaper or going to meetings. Let us look at the surroundings of their lives. What most men thought the greatest scientific advance of the century was summed up in the statement that life is modified by its surroundings ; that was very different from the curi-enb notion that life is mainly modified by Acts of Parliament. What were the actual surroundings of life for the working classes, not men only, but, in the order of human, national, social, and, therefore, also political importance— first for the children, next for the women, and then for workmen themselves? Dii'ty little narrow streets, jei-ry houses overcrowded and ill-ventilated, jerry furniture, parks generally so far away as to be of little use ; little playground for the children but the gutter ; little repose for the women but to gossip about the street doors ; no refuge for the weary men but to loaf at the street corner, if they did not muddle at the public house. And what were the best political and social reforms, or the most complete improvements of real wages ever going to do for them but improve those surroundings which made life 1 They wanted better houses, and more inside them and moi'e outside them. Parliamentary votes and Bills, and raised money wages alike]could never do more for them in this world than help towards getting these ; so let us work towards getting something of them now. That was what the Society he represented was working for ; and, unlike a good many of the societies represented there, they were getting a good deal of what they wanted every day, — not living merely in agitation or on hope. This Society was trying to improve the actual dwellings of the poor in Edinburgh. It was bringing cheap and good art and beauty and culture into every-day life, so making pleasanter both work and play ; and providing cheap pictures, casts, flowers, &c. It was also helping education, not only by lecturing and the like, but by preparing gymnasia, &c. ; and it helped recreation, for their crusade against drink took the form of providing something better. The main material causes which hindered the well-being of the 242 INDUSTEIAL REMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. poor were bad housing — unwholesome and comfortless ; lack of edu- cation ; lack of cheap and simple yet real pleasure ; and how were these to be remedied except by working at housing, at art, at educa- tion, at recreation 1 It would be asked : How about the prevalent destitution ? They were taking up that too — tiying to organise benevolent agencies, and better still, not simply putting down on paper fine schemes for the organisation of labovir, but trying some of them in practice. And so, when the time for political action in any of these respects came, they would be ready for it too, readier far than those who had been only talking meanwhile. The tendency of thus raising the standard of comfort was to produce a real action upon the distribution of wealth, and upon the population question, so that they claimed to be ficing the problem not only of how to maintain the people, but how to maintain them well. They would furnish inquirers with particulars of their schemes, only asking that they might be given a fair trial. (Applause.) Mr. George Macdonald (Social Democratic Federation) said as a working man and a trades unionist, apart from being a socialist, he had taken great interest in the debate. Mr. Owen advocated State-aided emigi-ation. If it were right to call upon the State to assist emigration, it must also be right to call upon it to build houses for the poor of this country. Six millions invested in houses would produce work for several thousands of people at '27s. a week, according to Mr. Hoyle. If the people had produced so much wealth, there was no need for them to work so hard ; so let there be a general holiday. If people wished to get over a river they used a bridge, but that was only the means. In that way they meant to use the Government of to-day, as a means of getting over the distress of to- day. It was said that the working classes spent money in following the fashion. It was impossible for them to help themselves. In a slop shop, or a second-hand shop, all the clothes for sale are in the fashion. With respect to food, the poor had shops, not for the sale of poultry and such like, but for the sale of sheep's heads, entrails, and the refuse that was left by the other classes of society. The whole system must be changed. The workers had no interest in that which they are required to do to procure them food. Profit-mongering must be done away with. If they had produced so much more than was necessary to support them, why should so many of them be starving to-day 1 Why should it be necessaiy to call a Conference to consider the question 1 Were we not living in the nineteenth century, after nearly 1,900 years of the Christian doctrine — live and let Hve? One gentleman proposed to tax the trades unions. They taxed themselves to enable them to protect themselves from the capitalists. THUKSDAY AFTEENOON. 243 There vvei-e too many idlers in this country. Why did he try to work ten or twelve hours a day ; was there not enough wealth in the country to support us all ] It was because the greedy few had taken so large a share, and left the crumbs for the others. They were asked to confer amongst themselves ; let those rich people confer amongst themselves, and say how long this system of white slavery — worse than any of the ancient systems — was to exist. They might talk of bettering the labouring classes, but that would never be done until their rights as citizens were fully recognised, until it was determined that one man should not live on another man's labour. One gentle- man said the socialists had got a grand idea and scheme, under which they were to take over the means of production and control it. Under that system the active and strong would take possession of the wealth, and the idle and vicious would be thrown into prison. Where was a better place for them 1 There was no fear that in any future constitution the idle and vicioias would be neglected. We should take pi-ecious good care of them. What we had to do was not so much to consider how the present system could be kept working smoothly for a little longer, as to say that the system of private ownership must be put an end to. Captain Halford Thompson, F.S.S. (Exeter Chamber of Com- merce), said it was a formidable thing for one holding fail' trade principles to address an assembly like that, wheie so many dis- tinguished political economists were present, who looked upon all attempts to throw doubt upon so called free trade as sacrilege. However, Mr. Han-is had had the pluck to attack it, and those who thought with that gentleman must not flinch from doing the same. He agreed with Mr. Harris that we should recognise no laws of political economy which did not benefit the greatest number of our own Empire. He believed that the industi'ial classes would hereafter discover that in blindly following the theory that they were doing good to them- selves in importing any amount of manufactured goods into this country, they were really supporting a theory against their own interest. The theory was greatly to the interest of the rich and the non-producing classes, but not of the industrial classes, Thei-e was no doubt that the rich man got his luxuries cheaper by this system; to a certain extent the industrial classes might get things rather cheaper, but he was veiy much struck by a remark made the previous day on that point. It was all very well, remarked the speaker, to say that boots were cheaper, but he did not like to pay for brown paper. He hoped that those boots said to contain it were not of English make ; but if they were, it was because things were driven down by foreign competition. (A Voice : They are English.) He R 2 244 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. was very sorry to hear it. They were met to see if there were no remedy for the present distress, and also whether anything could be done to ensure continuity of employment. They had heard a great many remedies suggested, some of which he hoped would be of great use ; but he maintained that there was one great bar to our continuity of employment, and one great cause of the distress — the immense quantity of foreign manufactured goods coming into this country. He cordially endorsed the attack which had been made by several speakers on those absurd theories of political economists. H,e had studied the import statistics, and prepared a table which tallied almost exactly with that given by Mr. Harris. In 1883, 64 millions' worth of manvifactured goods came into this countr}^, and 20 millions' worth of half-manufactured goods. The latter portion had done us some good, but they could just as well have been wholly manufac- tured here. We must remember that that 84 millions' worth of goods could have been manufactured in this country, and it was that home trade which he wished to see kept, and the proceeds go into our pockets instead of the pockets of the foreigner. If we could keep up that, and also develop our colonial trade so as to have the whole in our own hands, we could almost afford to snap our fingers at the rest of Europe if it tried to retaliate ; but, in fact, Europe could not retaliate, as it had more to lose than we had. The only way he could see in which we could retain our home trade was by entirely altering our fiscal plan, and puttmg a duty on foreign goods. He wished to see the bond between this country and our colonies strengthened, and not reduced, and that could only be done by giving them some advantage over outsiders. The colonies could not afford to remove theii' import duties on our manufactures, but so long as they charged the outsiders, say, 10 per cent, more than they did our- selves, it came to much the same thing as if they admitted our goods free and charged the outsiders 10 per cent. He did not for one moment deny the immense advantage that free trade was to this country in the first instance, but circumstances altered cases, and we were very much in the position of a good billiard player and a bad one. When the two played, the bad player had points given him by the other ; but when the bad player had learnt the game he did not get the points. When we first adopted free trade it was a game at which foreigners would not play until we gave them points. Now others had got our machinery, &c., and if we continued to give them points we should lose the game. He hoped they would consider the matter well, and not believe all the theories they heard from a set of irresponsible enthusiasts, but accept that which would redound to the welfare of the greatest nvimber of the community. THURSDAY AFTERNOON. 245 Mr. H. J. Pettifer (Workmen's Association for the Defence of British Industry) said he was on the same side as the gentleman who had just spoken. He had brought a little extract, which was the first to turn his attention in the direction of fair trade or protec- tion. It was only a few lines : — ' Those who speak of the selfishness of protection as a whole can never have taken the trouble to examine the arguments by which it is supported in America and Australia. In these countries it is no mere national delusion ; it is a system adopted with open eyes as one conducive to the country's welfare, in spite of objections known to all, in spite of pocket losses that came home to all. If it is, as we in England believe, a folly, it is at all events a sublime one, full of self-sacrifice, illustrative of a certain nobility in the natural heart. The Australian diggers and Western farmers in America are setting a grand example to the world of self-sacrifice for a national object. Hundreds and thousands of rough men are content to live, they and their families, upon less than they might otherwise enjoy, in order that the condition of the mass of their countrymen may continue raised above that of their fellow-toilers in old England.' This was from Greater Britain, the well-known work of the President of the Conference. The opening of our markets to raw materials had been of great benefit to our working classes, and he was not one of those who would be in favour of putting a single penny duty on food or raw material coming into this country. Trade was very much depressed, and he did not think we should benefit much by putting duties on those things. Some time ago a man, after running along a London street late one night, became quite exhausted. As he was leaning against some railings a man came to him and asked him what was the matter. He replied that a thief had snatched his watch and he had tried to catch him, but could not run a step further. The other man said, ' Are you sure you can't run any further?' 'Yes.' 'Then I'll take your hat.' (Laughter.) That was exactly the remedy proposed by Mr. Chaplin and Mr. Lowther for the present distress. Those gentlemen said trade was very depressed, the working-man had little work and less money, and they proposed to remedy that by taking his cheap loaf. (Hear, hear.) But we would not have that. (Applause.) One gentleman said he was opposed to the political economists, and yet his remedy was the same as that suggested by Richard Cobden. In a speech made in the House of Commons in February 1842 he said :— ' The question resolves itself into a very narrow compass. If you find that there are exclusive burdens on the land, do not put a tax upon the bread of the people, but remove the burdens.' 246 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. Some of the gentlemen were of opinion that that would benefit the farmer very little, but Cobden provided for that. He suggested in a speech made in London on December 11, 1844, that rents should be fixed on a sliding scale, to be determined by the price of wheat in the open market, so that the more a farmer got for his wheat the more rent he would pay, and vice versa. He believed that the free importation of manufactvired goods had been a great disadvantage to the wage-earners of this country, and the depression of the present day was almost entirely due to it. Let us go back to the time when every trade and branch of industry was prosperous, when every man who wanted woi'k could get it. That was from 1871 to 1874. How was that 1 Simply because for that time we had a sort of artificial protection. France and Germany had not recovered from the effects of the war. Just as they recovered, so the trade of England went steadily down. The amount of manufactured goods coming in was 60 millions' worth, but that was a mere fleabite. It was not the amount of goods coming into this country that workmen cared altout, but it was the price at which they came that caused the mischief. The year before last there were only 46,000 Waltham watches imported, but they brought down the price of the English watches, although much inferior to them. Even the price at which an article could be sold abroad ruled our markets, although the article never entered our markets. An ironmaster making a tender had to know the prices in Belgium, and send in his tender accordingly. He was a protectionist, and he could not help being so because he was a trades vxnionist. On his card of membership it said ' Electroplaters' Trade Protection Society.' The members bound themselves to protect each other against their employers and fellow- workmen, but they did not offer any protection against the cheap labour of the Continent. He could not see what diffei-ence it could make whether a foi-eigner came here, or stopped at home and worked longer hours than we did : the result in both cases was the same. He had the right to demand that his trade union should protect him in the one case as much as in the other. Mr. John Mokley, M.P., said so much had been introduced into the discussion about the Cobdenite writers, so-called irresponsible doctrinaires, and other advocates of free trade, that he was impelled to submit one or two points to the Conference. Mr. Pettifer had said that he had been converted by a paragraph in a book which set forth that the American protectionists declared that they would not allow their toilers to sink to the level of the toilers in the old country. [Mr. Pettifer : It was from Sir Charles Dilke's Greater Iji-itain.] Yes ; but Sir Charles Dilke was setting forth the point THURSDAY AFTERNOON. 247 of view of the American and Victorian protectionists. Mr. Pettifer might have remembered that at the present moment the wage receiver in the United States is not one atom better off in the majority of cases than the wage receiver here. It was not to be denied as a matter of fact that the iron-workers at Pittsburgh are much worse off than those at Wolverhampton. (' Tell us how.') It was not for him to explain why ; he was dealing with an argument that Mr. Pettifer supported by an example which did not make in favour of his position. (Hear, hear.) Captain Thomp- son said that we should devote our w^hole energies to our home trade, and let foreign trade take care of itself. That sounded very well, and very domestic and agreeable, but he would like to know what would become of half the industrial population of our country if we were to lose that foreign trade which Captain Thompson and Mr. Harris would undoubtedly injure and, for aught they cared, destroy. One gentleman said if the colonies were to federate, there would be a great alliance and great interchange of com- modities in consequence. Was there any probability of such a thing ? Was it not clear that it was the protectionist policy of Canada and of Victoria which made federation impossible 1 Those colonies would not consent to give up the control of their own tariffs. To think that federation would ameliorate the condition of things in this covmtry was a great delusioi:i. Mr. Harris said that all raw materials should be imported free. Had that gentleman considered fully what were raw materials ? Was yarn to be considered a raw material ? It was the raw material of the spinning industry. Aniline dyes were the raw material for the dyers. Were they to be considered raw materials 1 Those were incidental and secondary points, but they went to show that Mr. Harris had not thoroughly looked round the scheme which he had propounded. They were told that a limited protection — he used the fairest word he could — would be good for the distress in English industry. What English industry was at present most depressed and was the cause of distress in other industries 1 It was the shipping industry. Members of the Society of Amalgamated Engineers knew that the great stress upon its funds was due to the fact that only one-third the amount of shipbuilding was now going on as compared with last year. So many commodities entered into shipbuilding — so much ironwork and woodwork — that a great number of subsidiary trades and an enormous portion of the industrial population were affected by depression in that single industry. Nothing coiild be so evident as that to limit the exchange of commodities, and to check the importation of foreign goods, manu- factured or raw material, into this country, was to depress the 248 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. shipping trade. Foreign countries had shown us no consideration, and it was our turn to do — what 1 To exercise our power to injure ourselves for the sake of repaying them 1 That was a power the use of which he hoped nothing would induce the industries represented in the Conference to sanction. (Applause.) Mr. W. J. Harris, M.P., said that his reply to Mr. Morley, M.P., must necessarily be short. Mr. Morley had laid great stress on his contention that if we limited in any manner the quantity of manu- factured goods which we received, it would tend to our shipping having less employment ; but he seemed to forget that if we con- sumed less of foreign manufactures we should manufacture a larger quantity at home. The consequence would be that we should import a larger quantity of the raw materials which mostly came from distant parts of the world, and we should mostly live on that which only came from Antwerp, Boulogne, and Rotterdam. Consequently our shipping interests would be gainers instead of losers. All knew how important our shipping industry had been to the nation, and he wished to point out that it was the only industry in which we had had real free trade. The foreigner, for his own sake, had been satisfied to ac- cord to us free exchange in ships, and our natural advantages had gained for us a great supremacy. This was a pvoof of the soundness of perfectly free exchange if it could be ever gained ; but it was an illusion to suppose that it could. Already foreign countries by means of bounties, &c., were endeavouring to wrest from us this one arm of our strength. With regard to the present great depression in our shipping, he hoped and believed that it was not a permanent de- pression, but that it would gradually pass away. The profits that had been made in shipping were large some years since. It was hardly recognised why they had been so large. The great stimulus had been brought about by the bad harvests, and by the discourage- ment of corn production in this country. The quantity of corn which had to be brought from abroad to supply this deficiency had made a great demand for shipping, and had led to over-production. It was therefore the failure on the part of an internal industry which cavised the development of our shipbuilding, and this was in no way due to the fiscal system of our country. Cobdenites were apt to value our success as a nation by adding our imports and exports together and taking the result. It was a most fallacious test. A bad harvest caused immense imports, while a good one required small imports. And it had never been proved that the nations which sup- plied us took our goods as payment in exchange ; in fact, the contrary was manifest. The real value of our foreign trade might be better seen by taking the value of exports for the last year, say THUESDAY AFTERNOON. 249 235,000,000^. About 1 5,000,000^. of this was coal and raw ii-on, which could be more usefully used at home, and were an abstraction from our national wealth. This would leave 220,000,000^. as the value. Taking from this the value of exports to our own colonies (which fail- traders would not only keep but encourage to the utmost), say about 90,000,000^., the result would be 130,000,000^. Seeing that some 90,000,000^. out of this were manufactured and half manu- factured goods which might be made at home, the result was about 40,000,000^. per annum as the real export value of our foi-eign trade. An increase in the growth of farm produce in this country to the extent of only 20 per cent., brought about by the unburdening of the land, would tend more to the advantage of our industrial occupations than the whole balance of our foreign trade ; but it must be equally re- membered that our foreign trade wovild certainly not suffer in the countries which supplied us with raw materials and took manufac- tures from us. In fact, on Cobdenite principles the export trade to such countries would be largely increased if it were true that ' goods always paid for goods.' As to any nations retaliating against us on account of our imposing moderate duties on their manufactures, there could only be four European nations that could be very materially affected, and these four nations send to us far more manufactures than we send to them. It would therefore be most impolitic for them to retaliate. As to the United States retaliating, the effect of import duties would have exactly the opposite effect in that country. The whole of the population who are devoted to the production and carriage of the raw materials and food with which they supply us so largely would fear our taking further measures in the same dix-ection, and the result would be a reciprocal treaty, with equal duties between ourselves and that country, which would be very much to our ad- vantage. Time would only allow of his saying that no argument of Mr. Morley's had shaken him in the slightest, and he maintained that every part of his paper was unassailable, A gentleman in the body of the hall had reproached him for undervaluing the laws of political economy, and had asked him ' why he did not value this as much as the laws of gravitation.' His reply to that was that the laws of gravitation were created by the Almighty, but the laws of political economy only emanated from man. (Applause.) Mr. Harding, in reply, said he would admit that free trade had been a blessing to this country, but he would have vis remember the state of the world at the time when it was so. At that time ovir ■colonies were not opened up, and there was a great demand for everything that we could produce. Even the great wide lands of North-west Canada were about that time a sealed book. Let us re- 250 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. member also the amount of commercial activity required to open that vast district. What was good then is the reverse now. He charged free trade with being the cause of all the distress we were now suffering from ; for did it not deprive the people of the means to pro- cure the necessaries of life by the foreigner underselling the home pi"oduce 1 If it only required the labour of one man to produce the necessaries of life for seven persons, that showed that the other six must be producing or living in luxury. The working classes could not improve their own condition legitimately without improving that of the capitalist. As long as we kept up a standing army and navy at a considerable cost, was it not fair that we should tax the foreigner to the same extent as the home producer ? It had been calculated that a former paid a tax of 4s. on a quarter of wheat, 3^. on a fat bullock before he sold it, and 5s. on a sheep. He asked that we should tax the foi-eigner on the same terms as the English producer. He had lately been to America and seen what they were doing there, and he could say that if we went on in our present way there would soon be as great distress amongst the merchants as among the labourers. Our home policy was of much more importance than our foreign policy. Some advocates had suggested the distribution of wealth by the equalisation of capital, and said that each pei-son would have about 249/. That was very fallaciovis, as the calculation was made upon the basis of a going concern. If the value were realised, would there not be a depreciation of property 1 What would be the use of the palaces we saw on every hand ? What was equal to-day would be unequal to- morrow. Whilst we were standing still with respect to our national debt, the Americans were reducing theirs at a great rate, over 30,000,000 dols. a year ; and nine-tenths of it was held by themselves, although in 1872 one-half of it was held abroad, and largely by Englishmen. They were going ahead, whilst we were going back or standing still. The Chairman said it was quite clear that sufficient account had not been taken by some speakers of the fact that the United States had possessed — although they were now beginning to lose that ad- vantage — enormous tracts of unoccupied and valuable land. With that advantage their great increase of population and of production would have taken place whatever their commercial system might have been. THURSDAY AFTERNOON. 251 How far do Remediable Causes Influence Prejudicially the Well-being of the Working Classes f By Sedley Taylor, M.A. {Late Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge.) Under an industrial system carried on for the purpose of exchange, the price of the finished article, after covering every outlay incurred in the purchase of raw materials, maintenance of machinery &c., must supply the remuneration of all the persons who have collaborated in its production. In any in- dustrial establishment, therefore, it is the sum total of sales, less that of outgoings incident to the process of manufacture, which constitutes the ultimate remuneration-fund for all human services rendered within it ; including, of course, the supply of capital, as well as every application of brain-power, manual dexterity and muscular strength in all departments of direction and work. The well-being, as a body, of the entire staff which supplies these services must, therefore, in any given establishment, depend on the amount of this remuneration- fund. Similarly, the well-being of each separate class of collaborators must depend on the portion of the remuneration- fund allotted to it, and individual well-being on the amount which the ultimate distribution of that portion brings to each man. Inasmuch, then, as the amount of the remuneration-fund measures, cceteris paribus, the prosperity of an industrial concern, and that amount largely depends on the vigour and skill with which every part of the industrial process is performed, it would seem eminently desirable, in the interest of a success- ful result, that the two following conditions should be satisfied: — (1) That every collaborator should be made and kept aware that the fund available for joint remuneration is the direct result of the concerted efforts of each and all. (2) That the share falling to each grade of collaborators should be allotted 252 INDUSTKIAL EEMUNEKATION CONFERENCE. on such a scale, and distributed on such principles, as to enlist the full exertion of each man's physical, mental and moral faculties, with a direct view to a prosperous result. Any arrangement, therefore, which practically concealed from an important section of collaborators the direct bearing of their work on the joint final issue, would affect prejudicially the well-being of the concern which employed them, and with it necessarily their own. Fmther, even were there no such con- cealment, any obstacle which prevented them from regularly obtaining what they regarded as their equitable share of the ultimate joint result, would discourage zealous effort and lead to the same consequences. I contend that this is precisely the effect produced by the established system of remunerating labour. The workmen employed in an industrial establishment are paid either by time or by the piece. In neither case is there any obvious connexion between the amount of their earn- ings and the prosperity of the employing concern. They have no share in its direction ; in the case of private undertakings they are, as a rule, sedulously excluded from all knowledge of the state of its affairs. Further, the rates of their time or piece-work wages are avowedly fixed, not on any considerations of equity, but by the varying vicissitudes of a never-ending struggle, in which one side strives to pay as little, and the other to obtain as much, as possible. It would almost seem as if the system had been deliberately planned to withhold from workmen all insight into the connexion between effort and its natural reward ; or, should they attain such knowledge, at any rate to prevent its having any stimulating effect upon their conduct. I have tried to show that, in the ways just indicated, the ordinary system of remunerating labour constitutes a cause influencing prejudicially the well-being of the working classes, since it impairs the efficiency of industry itself, on which their well-being so essentially depends. I will next try to prove that — in the language of the question to which my paper supplies one out of many possible answers — this cause is a ' remediable ' one. THUESDAY AFTERNOON. 253 It is well-known how, in 1842, the Paris house-painter, Leclaire, commenced the practice of allotting to his workmen — independently of and in addition to ordinary wages paid at full market rates — a share of the net profits realised in his estab- lishment. His example was followed in 1843 by M. Laroche- Joubert, paper-maker at Angouleme, and in 1844 by the Paris and Orleans Railway Company. About ten years later the system was adopted by two great Parisian insurance companies, the Compagnie d 'Assurances Generales and the Union, and sub- sequently by other establishments. Profit-sharing has made, since the Franco-German war, considerably greater headway in France than it had done up to that time. In 1879 a French society, consisting exclusively of employers of labour, was established ' to facilitate the practical study of the various systems under which workmen participate in profits.* The periodical Bulletin ^ published by this society announces the names of new firms which have adopted profit-sharing, prints in extenso regulations in respect to it, and generally acts as the organ of the movement. As will readily be imagined, there exist between these houses great differences in respect to the modes in which they have organised the profit-sharing principle. Some allot to their employes an invariable percentage of the net profits, others fix the rate of participation from year to year. The majority distribute the employes' share of profits among them in proportion to wages or salaries, but in a certain number of them length of service in the house constitutes a title to a larger participation. Of much importance are the varying conditions under which the share allotted to labour actually reaches the hands of the beneficiaries. Some houses pay it to them at once in cash ; some retain it altogether for purposes of investment ; others hand over a part each year in ready money and invest the remainder with a view of eventually securing to each beneficiary an accumulated capital sum or a retiring life-pension. * Brdletin de la Particijmtion aux Benefices. Paris, Chaix. 254 INDUSTKIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. In a paper presented last year to the French Association for the Advancement of the Sciences, M. Chaix, the great Paris railway printer and publisher, who is also vice-president of the Participation Society, gave a tabular conspectus of the arrange- ments adopted in 49 profit-sharing establishments. A few facts taken from this source will give numerical precision to the statements which I have just made. M. Chaix' list comprises 44 undertakings in France, 2 in Alsace, 2 in Switzerland, and 1 in Holland ; but the enumera- tion is not intended to be exhaustive even with respect to French participating establishments, much less, of course, to those in other countries. Of these 49 concerns, which represent a great variety of different businesses carried on both on a large and a small scale, 36 allot to their employes a fixed and 13 a varying percentage on net profits ; 35 distribute this share in proportion to annual wages received ; 9 in proportion to wages and stand- ing jointly ; 1 in proportion to standing only ; 4 as the employer may from time to time determine. Nine concerns practise unreserved cash distribution ; 23 entire retention for investment; 17 a mixed system. Of the 23 concerns which have adopted entire retention, 20 apply the workmen's dividends to constitute accumulated capitals ; 3 to obtain retiring pensions. Of the 17 which follow a mixed system, 13 invest the retained portion for capitalisation and 4 for pensions. Four houses are mentioned which permit a verification of the accounts on the side of the participants, and 14 which have established con- sultative committees with workman-representation. In regard to what is of course the pivot of the system, the percentage on profits actually allotted to labour in these under- takings, M. Chaix has been able to state the result with tabular brevity in only 23 out of his 49 cases. In 11 other instances he found a detailed note indispensable to make clear the rate of participation in each several case. With regard to the re- maining 15 concerns no information on this point is given in his 'table. Taking the 23 first-named cases, at the head of which stands the munificently endowed Maison Leclaire, we find the following results : — THUESDAY APTEENOON. 255 Number of undertakings. 1 . 1 . 1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 4 . 2 2 1 . 2 . Percentage on profits allotted to labour. 75 50 33 25 15 10 5 4 3 2i To the workman the ratio which his sliare in profits bears to his annual wages is more interesting than that borne by the entire labour-dividend to the total net profits realised. I will, therefore, add that in some houses the share in profits allotted to a workman has, under favoui'able circumstances, reached a maximum of more than 20 per cent, on annual wages, which are always paid at full market rates. The Compagnie d'Assur- ances Generales has allotted as much as from 25 to 30 per cent. on wages in an exceptionally good year. On the other hand, highly distinguished houses have in bad years been reduced to a very restricted participation or to none. Thus in the year of the Russo-Turkish war a house in Switzerland, which five vears before had allotted 28^ per cent, on wages, found itself reduced to no participation at all. In the ten years down to 1882, however, it had allotted an annual average of nearly 15 per cent., and thus afforded the participating workmen the means of preparing to meet bad trade by systematic saving. The literature of profit-sharing affords, in my judgment, decisive evidence that, within the limits of its application, that system has invigorated industry by stimulating individual and corporate effort, and that it has done this by directly connect- ing the workman's labour with a portion of the workman's reward. It has, therefore, within corresponding limits, counter- worked the cause of diminished well-being on the part of the working classes dwelt on at the opening of this paper, and so proved that cause to be ' remediable ' by actually remedying it. 256 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. The rationale of profit-sharing is a very simple and obvious one. We may safely assume that a man who knows that the excellence of the work which he performs has a direct influence on the remuneration to be received for it, will make far more zealous efforts than one who has no such assurance. A house^ therefore, which besides regular marked wages offers a substan- tial share of annual net profits, may count on securing better work than it would obtain if it followed the ordinary routine. This expectation, that a direct interest in ultimate results will stimulate to improved exertion, and thus open an entirely new source of profit, is the economic basis on which the participat- ing system rests. A moral gain to the workman in passing from the position of a mere wage-earner to that of an associate in profits is also clearly involved in the new arrangement. In endeavouring to convey, within the narrowed limits of space, some idea of what the attained results of profit-sharing are, I find myself debarred, by the very extent of the subject, from entering upon a detailed treatment of it. A volume of 170 pages,^ in which I have described a few of the most im- portant cases of its application, gives but an imperfect view of what it has achieved. To go into any one of these cases with intelligible fulness is here impossible. The main point which I have to make out to the satisfaction of the Conference isy after all, that profit-sharing has commended itself in actual trial both to masters and men, and this I hope to show by pro- ducino- a series of brief testimonies in its favour from witnesses of undoubted competence. From INI. Marquot, junior managing partner of the Maison Leclaire, I requested, for the purposes of the present paper, an answer to a specific question, viz., whether the participating system had in the experience of that house actually led to en- hanced profits. In his reply, dated Dec. 8 last, M. Marquot cited the following facts, as affording an answer to my ques- tion : — In 1882 the working painters, who received 75 centimes per hour, asked of the City of Paris, which fixes the wages of work- men in the building trades, to be paid 80 centimes per hour. • Profit- Sharing. Kegan Paul, Trench and Co. 1884. THUESDAY AFTERNOON. 257 The request was granted from Nov. 1, 1882, onwards, but no increase was made in the sums to be paid for the finished work. The advance in wages would therefore have to be made good out of profits. In notifying to their workmen the increased rate of wages, the managing partners of the Maison Leclaire drew attention to this fact, and explained that, if the rate of participation at the year's end was to be maintained at its previous level, the workmen must, by additional care in avoid- ing bad work, waste of materials and loss of time, succeed in making up the difference. The practical answer given by the workmen to this appeal is shown by the following figures. For the year 1881 the rate of participation had been, in round numbers, 20 per cent, on wages received. For 1882 it was 22^ per cent. The rise in wages took place on Nov. 1 of the latter year. The results of 1883 brought a participation of 23^ per cent. ' I am fully persuaded,' writes M. Marquot, ' that if we had not had profit-sharing, our balance-sheet for that year would have shown a diminution at least equal to the reduction im- posed ; whereas instead of that we have obtained an enhanced result.' In the firm Billon et Isaac,' a joint-stock company manu- facturing parts of the mechanism of musical boxes at Geneva, Switzerland, the results of profit-sharing have been studied both by the managing director and by the workmen with a very unusual degree of care and intelligence. T, therefore, addressed to M. Billon and to the participating workmen independent requests for a brief statement of their present views on the action of the system in that establishment. The answers which I received will be found in an appendix to this paper. I will quote here only a few sentences from each. M. Billon writes : — Since the year 1871, when we introduced this principle, it has not ceased to produce its good effects, material and moral. In the good years our workmen have put forth redoubled activity in order to ' See Proft-Sharing, pp. 33-39. 258 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. increase the profits. In the bad yeai-s, such as that through which we are passing now, they wilhngly lend themselves to the efforts which we make to attain a more economical production, being aware that it is to their interest to support the house. Our workmen, therefore, possess a knowledge of the difficulties of business, a thing as useful to them as to the employer. The very real advantage which employers derive from participa- tion well applied consists in having on their side the goodwill and zeal of the workmen, who, without this principle of union, main- tain an indifferent or even a hostile attitude towards the results of bvisiness. . . . The share in profits which we allot to our workmen is no sacrifice to our house, since we find it made up for by the good quality of the Avork obtained, and by economies of time and materials, a source which yields incontestable surplus profits. The opinion sent to me by the participating workmen bears 85 signatures, representing every man present at the meeting at which it was agreed upon. No divergent view was expressed, and only three men out of the entire body were absent from the meeting. In order to guard against a possible misapprehension of a passage to be cited from this opinion, I will premise that in the firm Billon et Isaac one-half of the share in profits assigned to labour is distributed unreservedly in cash, and the remaining half compulsorily invested in purchase of 41. shares in the house. These shares receive in due course both fixed interest and also a share of profits. Each workman, therefore, partici- pates through two distinct channels, first on the score of his labour, and next on that of his pecuniary stake in the esta- blishment. This point cleared, I proceed to a quotation from the work- men's opinion : — Becoming, in A^i-tue of the shares acquired by means of obUgatory thrift, co-proprietors of the establishment in which we work, we are bound together by a strong feeling of unity, and it is to our interest to avoid useless expenditure of time, to execute work with all possible intelligence, and to economise the tools, materials tfec, which are entrusted to us. In consequence we find these results : that the workman is morally raised ; that saving for evil days (sick- THURSDAY AFTERNOON. 259 ness, want of employment, &c.) is facilitated, and that a friendly understanding between masters and men is established. Thanks to a good administi'ation, all those questions which appear to present serious difficulty have, in our house, been satisfactorily solved by participation. Before passing from testimonies now for the first time published to some recently delivered before a French Commis- sion of Inquiry, I will cite a paragraph from an unsolicited letter written to me by M. Groffinon, head of an important industrial establishment ^ at Paris, who has recently been appointed Chevalier de la Legion d'Honneur in recognition of his services as one of the earliest and most persistent pioneers of profit- sharing. The following results have, M. Goffinon affirms, been fully established by long experience in his establishment : — 1. The quality of the products, or of the works executed, is better ; this is incontestable, 2. A notable economy is realised in regard to the fixed machinery, or rolling stock. 3. More active manual labour is obtained, besides a reduction in the costs of superintendence. A participating house, therefore (adds M. Goffinon), should, and according to our experience actually does, cany on production better, more economically, and with greater expedition ; the logical result of which is the increase of its custom. In the summer of 1883 an extra-Parliamentary commission, appointed by the French Minister of the Interior, M. Waldeck- Kousseau, to examine the question of workmen's associations, devoted eight sittings to the subject of profit-sharing. The heads of twenty-four participating concerns gave evidence in person, and seven others sent in written depositions. From the statements made by a few of the most important among these witnesses, I extract a sentence or two of leading testimony in favour of profit-sharing. This evidence is wholly additional to that collected in my book. ' Goffinon et Barbas, Plumbers, Sanitary Engineers, &c,, 85 Boulevard de Strasbourg, Paris. s 2 260 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. Paper-Mills at Angoulkme and elsewhere. (M. Laroche-Joubert.)' I have studied the question in all its aspects. Perfection is, it is true, not for this world ; but, if there be anything w^hich approaches it, I believe that profit-sharing is the system which presents the smallest inconveniences. . . . The unity of feeling created by participation makes all my workmen superintend each other — a superintendence far more real than could be that exercised by employes paid the highest wages to overlook without being intei-ested. . . . It is not to be supposed that the master has in consequence of adopting participation given away a part of his profits ; not at all : he has done a very good stroke of business, and this is the fact of which we must try to convince those who are not in favour of the system. Suez Canal Company, 5 rue Charras, Paris. (M. Ferdinand de Lesseps.)^ From the initiation of the Suez Canal, we occupied ourselves in organising profit-sharing in favour of our employes. We went to work in a very simple way. It is statutably provided that 2 per cent, shall be annually distributed among the participating employes, and this year (1883) they received after the general meeting 600,000 frs., (£25,000). A committee composed of employes attends to those of their comrades who are assailed by disease, distress, or inability to work. These institutions maintain a complete unity of feeling between the company and its stafi". We have been in a position to receive proofs of the zeal and devotion of our agents, and have only to congratvilate ourselves on what we have done. Calico Manufactory, Maromme, Seine-Inferieure. (M. BESSELlfevRE.)^ What I desire to prove is that in industry on a great scale, where the superintendence is less active than in industry on a small scale, it is to the interest of the employer to take his workmen into association. This measure will cost him nothing. The workman who knows that he is acting on his own account, and that his earnings will grow all the more the better and the more pi'omptly he executes his task, will make efforts which are certain to increase the profits of the establishment. . . . An experience of nearly six years permits me ' I'hqui'fc de la Commission. Extra-Pm-lementairedes Associations Ourricres. Paris : Imprimeric Nationale, 1883, vol. ii. pp. 45, 50, 51-52. » Ibid. pp. 143-144. » Ihid pp. 189, 193. THUESDAY AFTEENOON. 261 to add that the results obtained from participation have in all points of view surpassed my forecasts. Had space permitted I could easily have added, from the same som'ces, many other favourable verdicts. It is also true that a few of the witnesses described their workmen, or parti- cular sections of them, as uninfluenced by the stimulus of profit-sharing. The balance of opinion was, however, over- whelmingly in favour of the system. The effect on French industrial opinion of the evidence given before the Minister of the Interior's commission has been very considerable. As summary proof of this I may refer to statements made on July 13 last ^ at a banquet given by the associated trade societies of France — a body corresponding to our trades unionist organisation. Besides representatives from trade societies in the metropolis and many parts of France there were present, by special invitation, the Minister of the Interior, members of the Legislature and of the Paris munici- pality, officers of chambers of commerce and of employers' associations, &c. The chairman, M. Veyssier, a working painter, after speak- ing of the benefits which might be looked for from co- operative production, said : — The principle of association pure and simple is not yet sufficiently well defined for workmen in general to risk entering upon it. Those unprepared for that step would frankly accept the position of collabo- rators interested in the profits of an establishment under an individual master. It would be the most efficacious mode of attaching them to the house in which they worked, of making them contribute to its prosperity, of maintaining it in good repute, and of enabling the master to depend with certainty on having his plans thoroughly undei"stood by those who were to execute them. The chairman subsequently made a categorical demand on the workmen's part for ' an extension of the practice of partici- pation in the profits of enterprise, the examples of which are very encom-aging for employers inclined to imitate them.' The Minister of the Interior observed that, when workmen endeavoured to secure an increased share in the results of * ' Le Moniteur des Syndicats Onvriers,' Troisieme Annee, Numero 94. 262 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. enterprise by forcing up wages, they adopted an a 'priori and, therefore, necessarily arbitrary procedure, which might even bring destruction upon an industry exposed to foreign competi- tion, and so dry up a national source of wealth. What they claimed was practically conceded, in a form which lent itself to all the variations of the market, by participation in profits, ' You,' said the Minister, addressing the trade societies, ' have the power of doing much for its development, for if by your union you succeed in establishing a powerful representation of labour, your voice will be listened to. Capital will understand that, when you ask for a more just remuneration, you concur- rently offer it a guarantee. I believe, then, that trade societies will soon place at the head of their reforms, in the list of their claims, participation in the profits of every enterprise, as being the most equitable remuneration of labour.' On December 21 last^ at a meeting called by the Masters* Association in the Building Trades, the Minister of the Interior pressed the same topic on employers of labour. He declared himself the ' decided partisan ' of profit-sharing, which ' made the workman a source of increased profit both to himself and to his employer, attached the workman to the house, and estab- lished among all concerned a more and more intimate collabo- ration.' I close at this point a necessarily incomplete sketch of profit-sharing and of the position which it has won for itself in France. That British industry also stands in urgent need of such a means of conciliation was the settled opinion of one to whose profoundly sincere and impartial mind men of all classes have long looked for guidance. In his work on Pawperism^ published in 1871, the late Postmaster-Greneral used these words : — It is vain to expect any mai'ked improvement in the general economic condition of the eovintry, as long as the production of wealth involves a keen conflict of opposing pecuniary interests. . . . All experience shows that there can be no hope of introducing moi-e harmonious relations, unless employers and employed are both made ' 'Ze Monitevr des Syndicats Onvriers,' Troisieme Ann6e, Numero 117. THUESDAY AFTEENOON. 263 to feel that they have an immediate and direct interest in the success of the work in which they are engaged.^ Mr. Fawcett was one of the earliest and staunchest suppor- ters of profit-sharing ; he attributed a constantly increasing importance to its extension, and I am convinced that had his life been continued, his voice would have been raised on its behalf at this Conference. In fact, he long since assured me that nothing but the obligations of his ministerial position prevented him from joining me in an active propaganda in its favour. I rejoice to be able to leave the subject of profit-sharing in the hands of the Conference, with so strong a recommendation from so universally trusted a source. APPENDICES. I. Letter from M. Jean Billon, Managing Director of the Joint-Stock Company, Billon et Isaac, Geneva, Switzerland. I wilHngly comply with the request which you have addressed to me in regard to the present working of participation in oui- factory. Since the year 1871, when we introduced that principle, it has not ceased to produce its good effects material and moral. In the good years oui* workmen have put forth redoubled activity in order to increase the profits. In the bad years, such as that through which we are passing now, they willingly lend themselves to the efforts which we make to attain a more economical production, being aware that it is to their interest to support the house. Our workmen, therefore, possess a knowledge of the chfficulties of business, a thing as useful to them as to the employer. The very real advantage which employers derive from participa- tion well applied, consists in having on their side the goodwill and zeal of the workmen, who, without this principle of union, maintain an indifferent, or even a hostile attitude towards the results of business, "We have so identified ourselves with participation that we no longer understand industry carried on without the application of this beneficent principle, which establishes community of interests between masters and men, between capital and labour. ' P. 164. 26-i INDUSTEIAL KEMUNEEATION CONFEEENCE. One of the great difficulties by which manufacturers are beset is that of having to meet, on the one side, the requii-ements of customers who are constantly calling for reductions of price in order to reach a larger number of consumers, and on the other, the demand for increase of wages made by workmen whose wants are becoming greater. Participation partly solves this difficulty by giving to the claims of the workmen a legitimate satisfaction without increase of wages. Such increase may entail on a countiy the loss of an important industry, as we have had the opportunity of seeing and convincing ourselves at Geneva, in regard to several branches of jewelry and clock-making. We will quote here the very correct opinion on participation given by M. Paul Leroy-Beaulieu, the French economist and publicist, who was formerly opposed to the system : — * Participation in profits is to wages what salt and pepper are to bread and meat, a relish, a stimulant. ... It is destined, not to suppress wages, but in some sort to supply their complement and coping-stone. . . . ' We will say, by way of conclusion, that the share in profits which we allot to our workmen is no sacrifice to our house, since we find it made up for by the good quality of the work obtained, and by economies of time and materials, a source which yields incontestable surplus profits. Geneva, Bee. 12, 1884. II. Letter from Eighty-five Particix>ating Workmen of the Maison Billo7i et Isaac. We are happy to be able to tell you that the manner in which M. Billon has organised participation has coi'responded favourably to the legitimate expectations of the workmen Becoming, in virtue of the shares acquired by obligatory thrift, co-proprietors of the establishment in which we work, we are bound together by a strong feeling of unity, and it is to our interest to avoid useless expenditure of time, to execute work with all possible intelli- gence, and to economise the tools, materials, &c., which are entrusted to us. In consequence we find these results : that the workman is morally raised, that saving for evil days (sickness, Avant of employ- ment, &c.) is facilitated, and that a friendly understanding between masters and men is established. Thanks to a good administration, all those questions which appear to present serious difficulty have, in our house, been satisfactorily solved by participation. THURSDAY AFTEENOON. 265 If the workman finds his advantage in the system, what we have just said shows that the master does so too. Many objections have been made against participation, and of late this one : — A\Tien a master admits this principle into his house he lowers the daily wages in proportion to the share of profits which he allots. This is an erroneous statement in respect to the house which employs us. But were anyone to maintain that it is preferable to increase wages rather than give a share in profits, we should answer No I because participation has the advantage of enforcing thrift, and of counteracting the general tendency to increase outlay in proportion to increased earnings, without leaving anything for bad times. Obligatory saving and well-understood individual interest have had a happy influence on many of our colleagues, who have become more conscientious and more laborious. We are convinced that, admitted generally, participation will be a powerful means of breaking down the barriers between mastei'S and men, and of thus solving, in a certain measure, the social question. Geneva, Bee. 10, 1884. Do any Remediable Causes Influence Prejudicially the Well-being of the Working Classes? By Benjamin Jones, of the Co-operative Wholesale Society. {TJte numbers in hracTiets, thus (1), refer to the notes, <^'c. in the Ajjpendix, p. 276.) By well-being, I understand to be meant prosperity, comfort, and happiness. The remediable causes may be divided into two : first, an insufficient share in the income of the country ; and second, an inefficient expenditure of that share. Both these causes can be removed by the exertions of the working classes themselves ; but they can be removed much more quickly, with the aid and sympathy of other classes. The present annual income of the country is estimated at one thousand two hundred millions sterling (1). This is about equal to 3oL per year per head of the population ; to about 80L per year per head of the population alleged to be engaged in some occupation or employment ; and to 170L per year per family. If the income was actually distributed in something 266 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNEEATION CONfEKENCE. like the above proportions, and was efficiently expended, the amount is sufficient to ensure comfort to everybody. The average cost of maintaining indoor paupers is 10^. per head per year, without reckoning the cost of buildings, or the cost of management ( 2). There are scores of thousands of honest, hard-working families whose incomes do not amount to so much as 1 0^. per head per year (3). Out of their incomes, too, they have not only to provide food and clothing, but rent, firing, light, and schooling. They also have to buy their goods retail at enhanced prices, while the poor-law officials buy their goods at wholesale prices. These families must, therefore, live on less than what the guardians consider as absolutely necessary to keep paupers barely in existence. Yet the produce of their labour ought to afford them a larger income : for, when these workers are removed to another district, to perform the same duties, with the same energy and intelligence, they receive much larger payments (4). If some of the working classes receive too little in return for their labour, it follows that somebody else is receiving too much ; and these persons are, apparently, among the rent receivers and monopolists, the capitalists, and those whom econo- mists describe as receiving remuneration for management ; which includes, not only managers and other holders of superior positions, but all capitalists who are employers of labour, or are directly engaged in business operations (5). They are said to receive their shares of the national income through the action of the economic law of supply and demand ; and working- people are also said to receive their portions through the action of the same law. As this law has invariably been held up as a rule by which people are compelled to be guided, as it is inva- riably said that people must not grumble so long as they receive all that the action of this law will give them, and as it is asserted that the law is just and beneficent in its action, no one can fairly complain, however badly the shoe may pinch, if working people apply this same law on their own behalf, to obtain an increased share of the produce of their labour. Applied intelligently and judiciously, it will be found possible to reduce the remuneration of capital, to reduce the re- THUKSDAY AFTEKNOON. 267 muneration of management, and to increase the wages of the workers. The wages of the workers can be increased by extending the practice of keeping working-class children at school till fourteen or sixteen years of age; by the adoption of shorter hours of labour; by the discontinuance of the practice of married women and mothers going out to work ; by the better adjustment of each year's supply of new labour in the different classes of work, so as to prevent overstocking on the one hand, or a short supply on the other ; by superior technical training ; and, perhaps, by a practice of learning two trades, of different characters, so that when one is overstocked, there may be a chance of turning to the other (6). The remuneration of management can be reduced by the higher education of the working classes, which will increase the supply of competent persons for superior positions in proportion to the demand ; and by the formation of Co-operative Associations, where the principal positions will be filled by the selection of the fittest, thus giving the humblest a chance, where now only a few specially favoured ones are allowed it (7). The interest, or profits, on capital can be reduced almost to zero, by the working classes accumulating their own capital, and using it, as far as is necessary, in providing joint self-employment. Capital in the hands of non-workers would then have to be loaned mostly to Associations, and the rate would gradually get lower and lower, until it is conceivable that some would be gladly lent, on perfect security, at no interest, solely for the advantage of receiving it back again at some future time, with- out having the trouble and risk of taking care of it in the interval (8). Eent receivers and monopolists stand to some extent in a class apart. By rent receivers, I do not mean the people who simply receive rents equivalent to interest on moneys actually expended in improvements and buildings. These are in the same position as other capitalists, and the supply and demand principle fully meets their case. But I mean those who, in consequence of their privileged positions as landowners, absorb a large share of the national produce by the appropriation of 268 INDUSTRIAL^KEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. what is now usually called the unearned increment. This class of rent receivers, together with monopolists generally, can only have their portions reduced by the working classes taking their proper position in the councils of the nation, and sending sufficient members of their own class to Parliament, to insist upon equitable legislation and administration. The greatest intelligence, the highest skill, the strictest honesty, and the most energetic industry, are powerless to improve the well-being of our class, unless the Government is conducted with knowledge, wisdom, integrity and justice (9). By the abolition of inequitable monopolies, and by the equitable administration of national affairs, the working classes would benefit to the extent to which they would be relieved of charges they now have to bear, and by the public executive rendering them additional and improved services. By a re- duction in the rates of interest on capital, the working classes would be benefited to the extent to which they used the capital of others, either directly as borrowers, or indirectly as consumers. By the reduction of the remuneration of manage- ment, the working classes would be benefited to the extent to which they were consumers of the articles persons in such positions helped to produce. By the establishment of co- operative associations, some of the working classes would further benefit by the greater share of lucrative and superior positions which would fall to their lot, by the practice of selecting the most capable men for those positions ; and all would benefit from the greater success which would result through the adoption of this practice. By the direct increase in the wages of the workers, the working classes would benefit to the extent to which other classes consumed their pro- ductions. The total income of the working classes could thus be at least doubled without inflicting the slightest injustice on anybody. Besides this increased income, there is to be considered the additional income that could be derived by a more efficient use of om- natm'al resources. It has been asserted that five hundred millions sterling could be profitably applied to the higher cultivation of the land (10). A general practice of THUESDAY AFTERNOON. 269 equity would encourage the rapid application of this capital, for persons would then feel seciu-e of receiving their just reward. It would also encourage increased efficiency in most trades ; for there is a great difference in the results from a body of men driven to work, and a body of men working freely, with their hearts in their work. The progress of invention, too, is likely to continue adding to the comforts and enjoyments of life, without adding to its labour (11). In the foregoing part, the working classes have been looked at as producers. They must now be looked at as consumers. An increased efficiency in the expenditure of their incomes can be secured as follows : — By supplying their wants through co-operative stores, they reduce to a minimum the costs of distributing their food, clothing, &c., which, by the present system of competitive trading, is conducted in anything but an economical manner (12). A still more important point is to avoid imprudent marriages and large families. Nothing is so certain as that it is unwise to marry if a man cannot bear the expense of decently maintaining a wife ; and it is equally certain that, say, 30s. a week will not keep a man, his wife, and half-a- dozen children so comfortably as it would keep a man, his wife, and two or three children. With a large family, the mother often lives a life of wretchedness and slavery ; and is unable to pay those attentions to her husband that would make life sweeter for both of them. The food, clothing, and schooling of six, as compared with that of two, the doctors' bills, the nursing, and the crowded-out home, must be items on the wrong side of the account, altogether out of proportion to the pleasure that the existence of the additional children can be supposed to confer on the parents (13). The existence of the Eoyal Commission on the Housing of the Working Classes speaks to the prevalence of bad and insuf- ficient dwellings. The direct benefits of any reduction in rents would be included in the estimated increased income previously mentioned. But the increased comfort, pleasure, health, energy, and intelligence, which result from good, roomy 270 INDUSTEIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. dwellings, would, when obtained, be a distinct additional gain, and would mean an increased efficiency in expenditure. Im- proved dwellings, both in town and country, can be obtained by means of co-operation. It is possible in twenty-five years to make all the working people who care for it the owners of their own dwellings, with very little, if any, additional expendi- ture beyond the weekly rents now paid by them (14). One thing, however, will have to be done — at any rate in the country. The men who, as magistrates, commit to prison the man who happens to have no place to lay his head ; and, as landlords, refuse either to build dwellings, or let others build them, will have to cease their dog-in-the-manger policy, and must be compelled to permit their erection. Excessive drinking is another item which I consider sepa- rately on account of its extent. It is estimated that the working classes expend one hundred millions sterling a year, either directly in payment for drink, or indirectly by loss of work, &c. All money spent in drink is not completely wasted. So far as it gives pleasure it may be well spent. But when the drink causes pain, wretchedness, and worse evils, the money is badly spent. The cost of excessive drinking, together with the working time lost thereby, and the loss of home pleasures, must therefore be added to the list of inefficient expenditure (15). Very little improvement in the well-being of our class can take place without providence. By this I don't mean the penurious system of thrift which is so often recommended to the poor by those who are wealthy. I don't believe that a man does good or gets good by doing without a pot of beer or a pipe of tobacco merely to enable him to save another sovereign. But by providence I mean a judicious and careful provision for the requirements and contingencies of civilised life. Sick and burial insurance, membership of trades unions, annuities for old age, abolition of the tallyman, and ceasing to take credit for articles of daily consumption, are items that are receiving constantly increasing support. A higher standard, however, must be set up, to which our people will grow steadily, if slowly. Numbers have already grown to it, and even passed it. In addition to what have been enumerated, the possessions of a THUESDAY AFTEENOON. 271 working-man ought to include a comfortable, well-furnished, freehold dwelling, the amount of capital necessary to provide self-employment, and a sufficient sum to equip each child when it begins to labour for its own subsistence (16). Until men get into this position, they are justified in exercising thrift of a fairly severe character. But I would not go so far as to sacri- fice all, or most, of present day enjoyments for the prospect of future ease and pleasure. The future may never come, and if it does, the penurious man may have become paralysed to all pleasures. Attention to domestic economy is of great importance. Most working men know the difference between a clever house- wife and an inferior one. The value got out of the husband's earnings by one as compared with the other is immense. A good general knowledge of the relative values of different kinds of food and clothing, of cookery, and of the other essentials for health would add a great deal to the total efficiency of the incomes of the working classes. Associated homes are closely connected with this question. They are as yet very unpopular in England, and may always continue so ; but if adopted, women could be relieved of much household drudgery, the pleasures of home could be largely increased, and all the surroundings could be improved and brightened, without one penny extra cost or a single particle of disadvantage. These benefits would result from division of labour and by enjoying in common those of their possessions which could be used in this manner without private disadvantage (17). By a general adoption of prudence in marriage, of tempe- rance in strong drinks, of habits of providence, of improved domestic economy, of the use of co-operative stores, and of improved dwellings, the spending power of working class incomes would be increased by at least 40 per cent. Part of a man's income can well be devoted to shortening his hours of labour ; or as it would be usually put, he can work less, and so earn less. If the time is not excessively shortened, he will be able to recoup some portion of his so-called lost time, by the increased energy and skill he could put into his work. His so-called leisure hours should be partly used in looking 272 INDUSTKIAL EEMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. after the interests of the public, both in local and national affairs. The practice of holding Town Council meetings, and that of other organised bodies, in the evenings, would enable working men to take a fair share of this work. Doing it, would also help to break down those stiff social barriers which are bad for both rich and poor. Community of feeling, and identity of tastes, might well be considered better rules for the selection of friends, than the possession or non-possession of wealth. The range of choice of amusements for working people has been very limited ; but it is rapidly widening, and will soon be varied enough to suit everybody. The great difficulty remain- ing in connexion with recreation, is how to spend Sunday. It is almost a compulsory choice now between Bible and beer. There ought to be other choices open for those who do not care to be so extremely limited. The opening of museums, libraries, and newsrooms on Sundays, with proper provision for the attendants having a holiday during the week, would not hm-t anybody, and would do good to thousands (18). With increased wealth and culture among the working classes, we may look forward to an increased love of the beautiful among them. This might be accelerated, if steps were taken to improve the public and semi-public property in working class districts. Perhaps it will convey distinctly what I mean, by suggesting that Mr. Euskin would be more likely to improve the artistic tastes of the nation, if, instead of hindering its growth among the working classes by preventing the construction of railways in picturesque localities, he would help to prevent railway companies erecting hideous, foul, dripping viaducts in thickly populated neighbourhoods. Rail- ways need not necessarily be ugly ; and the cost of building an attractive viaduct as compared with the cost of an ugly one, makes a very minute difference in the total. Railway com- panies should remember that if monopolies have their rights, they also have their duties (19). There is a class below the ordinary working class that re- quires notice— Mr. Bright's famous ' residuum.' This class com- prises criminals, paupers, casuals, and those just above them, who have some self-respect and power of work left, which causes THUESDAY AFTERNOON. 273 them to labour fitfully, so as to provide the means of existence. It is largely recruited from all classes, although the working class is usually charged by the others with being the sole source of supply. The problem of dealing with them is a difficult one. Intelligent benevolence may do a great deal to alleviate their misery, but it cannot do much to raise them up. Efforts have been made, and are being made, which, if successful, would mean thrusting them above the heads of members of the un- skilled working class, who, by their prudence and industry, would not deserve to be so treated. In charity, as well as other things, considerations of equity should prevail ; and for benevo- lent persons to help into positions of prosperity and comfort people who have for perhaps half a lifetime led drunken and dissolute lives, is to put a premium on extravagance and im- providence, which acts as a direct discouragement to the weaker portion of working people, who see such acts of unjust and senti- mental partiality perpetrated (20). Men and women who have fallen, should be encouraged and stimulated to rise by their own efiforts, but should not be pitchforked into renewed pros- perity. At the very best, few of the older ones can be re- claimed. Habits once formed are difficult to break. While, therefore, one would wish success to every effort, we must rely more on prevention than cure. If the young ones can be trained to better things, an improvement must follow, for the old ones will die out. To the young, the nation owes a duty. It is the godfather and godmother who has to train up its godchildren when the parents do not or cannot do it. So long as these godchildren of the State are not treated better than ordinary working class children are treated, nobody can justly complain, no evil will be done, and society will be benefited. Having sketched the methods of increasing working class incomes, and of increasing the spending power of those incomes, there remains the question, how are people to be induced to use these methods ? There is only one way. They must be instructed and educated. At last, our children are receiving a sound elementary education. To give them an opportunity of realising all the blessings that life can bestow, they need higher training in (a) technical knowledge ; (6) in T 274: INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. culture ; (c) in the moral and economic value of equity ; and (cl) in the power which is derived from association, the necessity for being- associated, the objects for which people ought to unite, and the relative advantages and disadvantages in the different phases of life, of individual freedom as com- pared with association. Technical schools should be provided for both boys and girls, and should include in their teaching every class of work, whether of a domestic, commercial, or manufacturing character. The steps already taken deserve encouragement, but pro- vision for instruction should be speedily made general all over the country ; and Grovernment grants, together with local rates in aid, ought to be used to effect it (21). Working-men ought to have in this, as in all other matters, a proper share in the direction of the work. It will be all the more successful with adequate representative management. Culture is needed to enable us to obtain all the happiness that may be derived from our surroundings, and has the addi- tional advantage of tending to place all men on a level in con- duct and social intercourse. The system of evening lectures by university men seems to meet the necessities of the case, if they can be given in sufficiently numerous centres, and if people will more generally attend them. It they succeed in inducing some people to derive pleasure from scientific pursuits which may in- crease the sum of human knowledge, and lead to inventions of permanent usefulness, a double benefit will have been secured (22). The practice of equity needs teaching to all classes (23), perhaps less to the working class than to those above them. It ought to be made a compulsory subject in all schools, colleges, and universities, and its teaching ought to occupy more of the time of our Church clergymen and dissenting ministers. There is, I think, a distinct economic value attached to the practice of equity, equivalent to its moral value. It is obscured by the general custom of taking advantage of one another. When every man is an Ishmaelite, there must be a great waste of power. If all treated each other by the rule of 'Doing to others as you would like others to do to you,' there would be a THUESDAY AFTERNOON. 275 large force set at liberty, which could be devoted to more pro- fitable uses than those of attack and defence. Teaching the power, objects, and necessity of association is absolutely necessary for making a good citizen ; and together with equity ought to form part of the secondary education of every child. Teaching it, involves an accurate perception of the value of imperial, national, and local government ; and of voluntary associations of all kinds, whether for benevolent, social, or industrial purposes. It would be a teaching of what we co-operators understand as ' complete co-operation.' While it would rigidly respect the individual liberty of citizens, it would enable them to obtain all the undoubted advantages which flow from equitable association, chief among which may be placed the emancipation from the thraldom and tyranny of individuals ; who, abusing the power which the existing social system has placed in their hands, have used it mercilessly, while they have neglected the duties which morally, if not legally, devolved upon them (24). Until we can get these subjects included in our national educational system (25) we must rely on voluntary effort. It will be another addition to the numerous proofs of the capacity of British workmen, if they succeed in evolving a system of teaching the principles of equitable association, which, when put into practice, mean general peace, prosperity, and happi- ness. The attempt is being made, and, so far, there has been fair progress. The work is great, and the workers are few. Members of other classes with plenty of leisure can here find plenty of work. It is much harder than almsgiving, or doing things for people. It means teaching people how to do things for themselves. There is a great tax on the patience, and very little gratification of man's vanity ; but the worker would have a nobler reward in the consciousness of having done something which would solidly promote the national well being. It would redound to their credit if, sinking class selfishness, men of edu- cation and leisure would come forward, and teach their less favoured brethren. Our path would be smoothed and straight- ened. But with the help of other classes, or without their help, the work will be done. The path may be longer and more T 2 276 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. rugged, but the same sterling qualities which have raised up so many working-men to devote themselves to the well-being of their class, will raise up increasing numbers, until the work is fully accomplished. APPENDICES. Note 1. Page 102. Total estimated income of the cotbntry. This amount of one thousand two hvindred millions is given by Mr. GifFen in his Progress of the Working Glasses in the last half century, p. 27, but he supplies no data for the estimate. Note 2. Page 102. Cost of maintenance of indoor iKiwpers. The thirteenth annual report of the Local Government Board gives the following details, among others, of pauperism, pp. xvi. and xvii. : Mean number of paupers in England and Wales, m-doors, in 1883 182,932 Cost of in-door maintenance of ditto in 1883 . . £1,869,505 Workhouse and other loans repaid and interest . £430,185 Salaries and rations of officers, and superannuations £1,117,705 Other expenses of, or immediately connected with, relief £1,303,416 Note 3. Page 102. Families tohose incomes do not exceed 10/. jwer head per year. In England and Wales there are on the average three children under twelve and a half years of age to each married woman under forty-five years of age. In Scotland and Ireland the proportion will be somewhat larger. There must, therefore, be a large proportion of the working classes in families of five and six, where the father is the only l)read- winner. In all such families where the father's wages do not amount to U. a week all the year round, they must come in the above category. As it is a well-known fact that the number of adult workers with less than an average U. a week income can be counted by the million, no further proof of my statement will be needed. It is too modest, and should read ' hundreds of thousands.' Note 4. Page 102. The produce of their labottr ought to afford them a larger income. The migration of a Dorsetshire labourer to a Lancashire or THUESDAY AFTEENOON. 277 Northumberland fann would enable the man to nearly double his wages. Love of his native place, apathy, ignorance, and lack of money to pay removal expenses, combine to keep him at home. Similar motives operate to produce inequalities in the wages of other classes in different districts, to a greater extent than the inequalities in the cost of living would produce. The low wages mean an in- creased share to the landlord, and in some cases to the employer. Note 5. Page 102. If the working- classes receive too little, somebody else must receive too much. Arnold Toynbee in his lectures on Progress and Poverty, p. 39, estimates the value of the unearned increment in land at sixty millions a year. Members of the working classes have few opportunities of occu- pying lucrative positions. All superior positions in national and local government, in the army and navy, in the church, and in the legal and medical professions, are occupied solely by members of the other classes. It is almost exactly the same in commerce and industry. The opinion of John Stuart Mill will be gathered by the follow- ing extract from Chapters on Socialism, published by Miss Taylor in the Fortnightly Review, February 1879, p. 226. * Since the human race has no means of enjoyable existence, or of existence at all, but what it derives from its own labour and absti- nence, there would be no ground for complaint against society if evexy one who was willing to undergo a fair share of this labour and absti- nence could attain a fair share of the fruits. But is this the fact ? Is it not the i-everse of the fact ? The reward, instead of being propor- tioned to the labour and abstinence of the individual, is almost in an inverse ratio to it : those who receive the least, labour and abstain the most. * The very idea of distributive justice, or of any proportionality between success and merit, or between success and exertion, is in the present state of society so manifestly chimerical as to be relegated to the regions of romance. ' The most powerful of all the determining circumstances is birth. The great majority are what they were born to be. Some are born rich without work, others are born to a position in which they can become rich by work, the great majorit}' are born to hard work and poverty throughout Life, numbers to indigence.' 278 INDUSTEIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. Note 6. Page 103. The wages of the workers can he increased. The practice of keeping children at school to a later age has been gi'adually gi-owing since the Elementary Schools Act of 1870. It has already had a beneficial efiect on wages. If, on the average, our children were kept at school an additional year, 550,000 children would be kept ofi' the labour market, and this would of course ulti- mately affect the supply of adult labour. It is true there would be an outcry against the folly of teaching working-class children so well > and how much better it wovild be if they were at work ; but what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander ! Well-to-do people keep then' children at school for years after working-class children of the same age have been earning their dally bread, and neither parents nor children seem the worse for it. The adoption of shorter hours of labour would raise even a greater outcry. It would be said that there is nothing for it but the impor- tation of coolies or Chinese. If they were imported they would not be used to much advantage. They would die off rapidly under the in- fluence of the climate. PubKc opinion, too, would be against the degi'adation of the nation by an infusion of such inferior elements. Then the imported labourers could not fall into the places of native workers and work with natives. They could not keep up either in time or skill. The whole machine would be disorganised, and what might be gained in money would be lost in efficiency. The same re- marks would not apply with the same force to importation of labour from other European countries, but still they would apply, and the workers here have this advantage, that through their trades unions they can influence French and German workers to be steadfast in their demands for somewhere near what native workers themselves ask for. The following statement of the estimated number of spindles per worker in different countries will support the above view — it is taken by i\lr. Jeans from Mulhall's Progress of the World : — Cotton S2)i')uUes per operative. Great Britain . 83 United States . Q,^ Germany . 46 France . 24 Russia . 20 Austi'ia . 20 India . • . • • . 20 THURSDAY AFTERNOON. 279 It is further supported by the following extract from the paper read to the Statistical Society in December last, on Home and Foreign Lahotcr, by Mr. Jeans : — ' With reference to the quantity of work capable of being produced ly workmen of different nationalities under conditions as far as possi- lle similar and parallel in every i-espect, ;the best information that I hive found is that communicated to the Institute of Civil Engineers only a few months ago by Mr. Charles O. Budge, as the results of his own experience in the execution of engineering contracts in different countries. ' In these tables the labour dealt with was : — ' (1) Earthwork. ' (2) Ordinary bricklaying. ' (3) Hammer-squared rubble (dressing and setting only). ' (4) Painting on new work. ' The results are herewith tabulated : — • 'No. I. — Earthwork. * Side cutting excavated and removed to embankment ; the nature of the soil, the Uft, and the lead, being approximately the same in each case. Showlug the amount of work done in a Cost of unit of work given time, average (labour oulv; English English quantity being average being unity unity Englishmen 100 1-00 Frenchmen, Belgians, Germans . 0-75 to 0-90 0-90 to 1-00 Southern Em-opeans 0-60 „ 0-85 0-60 „ U-80 Hottentot half-breeds . 0-50 „ 0-80 0-90 „ 1-25 Kalhrs, Zulus, «kc. 0-40 „ 0-70 0-80 „ 1-00 Stronger Indian races . 0-40 „ 0-70 0-25 „ 0-60 Inferior „ ... 0-25 „ 0-40 0-20 „ 0-50 ' No. n. — Ordinary Bricklaying. The amount of work done in a given time, average English quan- tity being unity Cost of unit of work (skilled labour only), English average being unity Englishmen Frenchmen, Germans, Dutch- men, &c Natives of India (best class) „ (inferior) . 1-00 0-80 to I-OO 0-40 „ 0-50 0-30 „ 0-40 1-00 0-80 to I'OO 0-50 „ 0-65 0-43 „ 0'60 280 INDUSTKIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. 'No. in. — Hammer-Squared Rubble (Dressing and Setting onlv). Ensflishmen 1-00 1-00 ' Frcnchuien, Germans, Sec. . 0-75 to 0-90 0-90 to 1-00 Southern Europeans 5.-) „ 0-70 0-70 „ 0-80 Natives of India (best class) 0-40 „ (30 0-65 „ 0-80 „ (inferior) . 0-33 „ 0-50 0-60 „ 0-80 No. rv. — Painting on New Work. Englislitnen . Natives of India 1-00 0-40 to 0-60 1-00 0-60 to 0-80 * It is not necessary to offer any comments on tlie foregoing figures, which show clearly the comparative capacity of workmen in different countries for doing work that is so greatly dependent on strength and energy. With reference to the cost of such work, Mr. Budge disputes the late Mr. Brassey's conclusion that difference of wages does not materially affect the price of work, contending that if Mr. Brassey " meant that wages generally adjust themselves to the ability of the workmen his statement was certainly open to question," and setting forth, with reference to " that class of work in which manual labour is the chief ingredient," that the i-esult arrived at is, " in general, this ; that the lower the wage, the lower is the price of work, though of course not in the same proportion." ' It is possible to combine shoi"ter hours of labour, at the full pre- vious wages, with increased net profits to capital, and without an in- crease in the selling price of the goods. For instance, a cotton spin- ning mill running night and day six days a week, with relays of hands every six hours, would work 144 hours a week as against 56 hours usually worked. Assuming a capital of 100,000/. the 56-hours-a-week wages would be 11,000/. a year. The sum written off plant would be 5,000/. per year, and at 8 per cent, the dividend to capital would be 8,000/. a year. The total would be 24,000/. The production would be increased in the proportion of 56 : 144, so that the amount available for depreciation of plant and payment of dividend would be increased to .33,400/., or a surplus of 20,400/. a year. But the addi- tional sum required to pay the four sets of workers the same wages for 36 hours' work as they received before for 56 hours will take 15,700/., leaving a surplus of 4,700/., which would give an in- creased dividend to capital of 4^^^ per cent, per annum. There would still be large savings from cost of management, and i^ates and taxes being sjjread over a larger production, which would probably meet all extra expenses of gas and repairs that might be incurred. Of course, all trades could not be manipulated in this manner* THURSDAY AFTERNOON. 281 But we want to rectify injustice, and give to every man his due. Men engaged in transport seem to suffer especially fi^om long hours. Yet the injustice could be remedied sometimes without even those who profit by the injustice very much feeling the cost of the remedy. The following figures have been extracted from the London and North- Western Railway Company's balance sheet, and an estimate made, based on the hours of labour now worked, as shown in the return published by the Amalgamated Railway Servants, of the difference that would be made in the profit of that great Company by the appli- cation of the eight-hours system without any i-eduction in wages : — Estimated Difference to the London and Noeth-Western Rail- way Company by Paying Present Wages for an 8-Hours Day. Department Present Wages Basis of 8 Hours Maintenance of way, salaries „ wages Locomotive power, salaries . „ wages . „ rei^au-s and renew- als, wages Carriages and wagons, repairs and renewals, salaries .... Ditto, wages Traffic department, coaching, salaries and wages General charges, salaries Traffic department, merchandise, salaries and wages .... Totals .... Balance .... £ 20,018 136,112 19,985 225,699 88,079 4,149 57,251 230,779 33,508 416,285 £ 20,018 164,000 19,985 271,000 98,000 4,149 64,000 288,000 33,508 520,000 £1,231,865 £1,482,660 250,795 £1,482,660 £1,482,660 This additional expenditure would reduce the net revenue by 10 per cent., which would be equal to ^ per cent, on the whole capital, and nearly equal to li per cent, on the ordinary stock of the Com- pany. This is supposing there is no increased efficiency in the work through the shorter hours of labour, but a prolonged experience has convinced me that an eight-hours' labour will give better proportionate results than a longer day will do. It is an undeniable fact that those who receive the highest remu- neration give the least number of hours' labour in return for it. The weekly hours of labour of professional men, public officials, and heads of businesses, will not exceed 33 hours after holidays are reckoned off. The best situated of our artisans work 54 hours a week, and lose 282 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. their pay if they lose their time. Other workers are employed 60, 90, and as many as 105 hours a week. In London itself men will often work 90 hours for from 17s. to 20^. a week of wages. The discontinuance of the practice of married women and mothers going out to work would meet with opposition from mill-owners, but Avould be looked upon with satisfaction by the greater and better part of the nation. It is absolutely needed, if working people are to be happy. At least 500,000 women now at work could then be looking to the comfort of their homes, instead of leaving them in a state of Avretchedness. The proper adjustment of the new supply of labour year by year is a part of a big question. The workers know very little of the in- fluences that are at work, causing ebbs and flows in the prosperity of difi'ereut trades. This is a Government question : the Board of Trade ought to supply not only to employers, but to the trades unions and other organised bodies, the fullest statistical and other informa- tion on all matters aflecting their well-being. To be forewarned is to be forearmed. Many a disastrous break in trade could have been prevented by a timely warning to the men of what was likely to happen. The general establishment of technical schools would afibrd an opportunity for men to become familiar with more than one trade. It is possible that considerable distress could be prevented if men be- came more adaptable, and when one trade did not supply employment were able to turn to another. The idea may not perhaps be a popular one, but it would benefit more than it would harm. If the law of supply and demand has any effect, there must be a rise of wages from the contraction of the supply of labour by the carry- ing out of the above suggestions. Employers not infrequently take notice of this law when it tells against the workmen. It is for working- men to take notice of it when the state of afiairs is in their favour. Note 7. Page 103. The remuneration of management can be reduced. Mr. Giffen (page 27, Progress of Working Classes), says the greatest part of the increase of wealth during the last half century has gone to the working classes and the next greatest part to remune- ration for management. Whether the first part be true or not, the second undoul>tedly is, and there have been compai^atively few among whom the grand total has been divided. There is here an immensely fertile field for energetic workmen. They can multiply their wages, obtain ejisier and pleasanter employment, and work less hours. Yet by taking less remuneration than is now taken by the pi'esent occu- THUESDAY AFTERNOON. 283 piers of these pleasant positions, they can confer benefits on their fellow- workmen. Fair payment must of course be made for responsi- bilities and talents, but after all has been thus allowed, a very great saving can be effected. It is almost impossible to do so without the accumulation of working class capital, and its investment in co-opera- tive associations ; but with these conditions success is certain. An Oldham joint-stock spinning company, with 100,000^. capital, will spend 7001. to 1,000/. a year for management salaries, and fees of directors. The shareholders will supply about 50,000/., and will borrow the remainder at 4^ or 5 per cent, per annum. They then take all the profits. This is not an ideal form of co-operation. It does not satisfy my ideas of equity, but it is a step in the right direc- tion, and all steps must be encouraged and welcomed. The profits are difiiised among 200 or 300 men instead of being concentrated in the pockets of one or two. I have within the past few weeks noticed the following dividends declared for the Christmas quarter : — Croft Bank Co. . 15 per cent. per annum Duke . 16f „ » Parkside . 10 „ ?> Eoyton . • 13i „ >j Sun Mill . 10 „ 55 There are over ninety joint-stock spinning companies in and around Oldham, with a capital of seven to eight millions sterling. They have nearly crushed out the private master spinners by the energy and skill with which they have taken up every mechanical improvement, and taken advantage of market fluctuations. They have their own banking and insurance companies, and have a joint cotton-buying Agency in Liverpool to keep in check the cotton brokers. Working- men in Oldham and its immediate neighbourhood have, during the last twenty years, secured more positions of control and management than have been accomplished by all the working-men in the country during any previous twenty years. The ideal of co-operation is to secure the equitable treatment of all interests. But this is difficult of attainment until the nation has re- ceived a better training in the meaning of equity. All classes more or less desire to get the advantage. It has often been asked : How are you going to apply your co-opei'ative ideas to the management of railways 1 A management could be devised which would probably do away with the supposed necessity for the State taking over the railways. I dislike the idea of all organisations being managed from one Government centre. Voluntary associations for eveiy purpose, with full liberty on equitable terms for individuals to leave them and 284 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. join them, would better meet the exigencies of national life. There ■would be more flexibility in satisfying the varying wants of the people. A method of managing the railway companies would be to allow everybody concerned a voice in their management through duly elected representatives. At present only shareholders are allowed a direct voice. But the employes and the customers have interests in the railways which, although at present ignored, would warrant them in having a share of the management allotted to them. The basis would be the amount of capital invested by shareholders, the amount of trade done by the customers, and the capitalised value of the wages of the employes reckoned at the same rate as the dividends allowed to capital. This would be nearly perfect. Each class could elect its own representatives ; the passengers wovild be the most difficult to arrange, but it could be got over. The proportions on the London and North-Western Railway would be as follows : — Shareholders . . . ii^^^ ^^ management. Employes .... T*erative stores. This has been alluded to in note 8. The actual amount of work- ing class co-operative store-keeping is stated by Working Men Co- operators, pages 30, 78-83, to be as follows at the end of the year 1882 :— Number of retail societies . . . 1,200 Number of members .... 640,000 Share and loan capital .... £8,000,000 Annual sales £25,.500,000 Annual profits £2,100,000 There are also stated to be two co-operative wholesale societies formed of the retail societies, consisting of 490,403 individual members. Their imited position was as follows at the end of 1883 : — THUKSDAY AFTERNOON. 291 Capital 874,236 Eeserve Fund 62,288 Annual Sales 5,749,887 They have three boot and shoe works, one soap works, one biscuit and sweet works, one pig-killing and ham-curing factory, and six steamships. They have their own places of business, in addition to the above enumerated workshops, in seven places in England, three in Scotland, seven in Ireland, one in France, one in Germany, one in Denmark, and one in America. The two concerns were originated and are managed by working men. The profit intercepted by co-operators, and which would other- wise go to private firms, is included in the estimate of increased in- come. But there are additional savings over and above these, which make a further gain to the workman co-operator. These are greater efficiency in management, resulting in increased profits ; and greater freedom from loss by adulteration and other forms of cheating. The expenses of management in both retail and wholesale co-operative stores is notoriously much, below similar expenses in private firms, and is principally caused by co-operators having their customers ready to their hands, while competitive traders have to hunt up cus- tomers and fight for them against other traders. The average ex • penses of retail stores will be fully one-third less than the average expenses of private shopkeepers, while the expenses of the two whole- sale societies are not half the amount of private wholesale firms in proportion to the business done. It is also to the credit of co- operators, and part of the benefits of co-operation, that they were the pioneers of shorter hours for shopmen, and were the fii-st to give a weekly half-holiday to them. The following extracts from the Local Government Board's Report for 1883-4 (pp. ex. and cxi.) ^\ill give some idea of the prevalence of adulteration, and the consequent value of co-operation as a safe- guard : — Samples analysed in 1883 . . . . 19,648 Samples found adulterated .... 2,955 Percentage of adulterations .... 15 "04 The Report says : — ' On a former occasion we gave the grounds for a calculation that Londoners pay between 70,000/. and 80,000?. a year for water sold under the name of milk, and we are inclined to think that the estimate was by no means excessive. We find that the public analyst for Plumstead calculates that in that single district u 2 292 INPrSTRTAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. the milkmen receive between 7,000^. and 8,000/. for water, while the fines for adulteration imposed on them collectively amounts to about 100?. annually.' Note 13. Page 269. Imprudent marriages and large families. False modesty ought not to be allowed to prevent a thorough investigation into these two important questions. Real wisdom consists in acquiring an accurate perception of the truth, and then acting upon it. No one ought to be shocked a.t human beings using the reasoning powers they are blessed with, rather than continuing to act as if they possessed no more reason than wild beasts. It is all the more ridiculous to do so, as human beings are in the daily habit of regu- lating with the most scientific precision the increase in the population of pigs, sheep, horses, and cattle. The late Joseph Kay, in Free Trade in Land, p. 178, says ; 'A poor man in Germany, Holland, France, and Switzerland is, from his education, intelligent enough to be able to calculate his chances. He knows, when he begins his life, that if he defers his marriage for some years, he will be able to save, and to acquire land.' * The consequence is, that the poor of these countries do not marry nearly so early in life as the English poor, and do not rear such large families.' The whole question ought to be thoroughly discussed in a becom- ing spirit, in both its physiological, social, and economic aspects. If there were no choice between improvident marriages with lai-ge families and the glaring immorality which is so prevalent in our large cities, and which seems to be the machinery by which the young men of our well-to-do classes avoid too early marriages, I should prefer to see things left as they are, as the lesser of two evils. But I am convinced there is more than one way out of the difficulty ; and ways which need not shock any unprejudiced and impartial mind. Early marriages — say twenty-three or twenty-four for the man, and twenty-one to twenty-three for the woman — with small families, seem to me the most likely to be productive of happiness. There is a double advantage : in taking away the temptation to immorality on the one hand ; and, on the other, by seeing one's children settled in life before old age will have made one anxious about their future welfare. THURSDAY AFTERNOON. 293 Note 14. Page 270. Improved dwellings. An investigation of the balance-sheet of the Waterlow Dwellings Company early last year, bi-ought out this result : that by borrowing half the required capital from the Government at 3^ per cent, per annum, and obtaining the remainder from the public at 5 per cent, per annum, working people could be supplied with dwellings of ' Water- low ' quality and at ' Waterlow ' chaiges, and at the end of twenty-five years they could be conveyed to the tenants as their sole property free of incumbrance. The profits over and above the interest payable on the capital were sufficient to pay off the capital in the twenty-five years. Similar or even better results would follow in most towns and cities. On the basis of the above facts, a suggestion has been made for the formation of companies for the express pvxrpose of turning working-class people into the owners of their own dwellings, without any further payments than their ordinary rents. An additional idea was appended, viz., that instead of conveying the freehold of a distinct dwelling, each tenant should take stock certificates in the Company to the value of a dwelling, which would authorise the holder to either occupy or draw interest at his option. This suggestion was stated by a solicitor to be ' a capital device for doing away with the heavy legal charges incurred in the transfer of real or leasehold property.' It has a further advantage of enabling a man to change his residence without feeling tied down by the possession of a free- hold in an inconvenient locality. Here is a wonderfully wide field open to wealthy philanthropists, if they care to work in it. Note 15. Page 270. Cost of excessive drinking must he regarded as i7iefficient expenditure. While this is strictly true of the individual, it must not be over- looked, that the State derives a large portion of its revenue from the taxation of drink. This would have to be made up from other sources ; and so far as these fresh sources affected the working classes, the amount thus paid for taxes must be deducted from the total saving by the cessation of excessive drinking. Note 16. Page 271. A higher standard of providence mu^st he set up. in Note 14 it is shown how easily, by means of co-operation, a man can become the owner of his own dwelling ; and in Note 8 it is shown how easily, by co-operating for the supply of his food, fuel, 294 INDUSTRIAL KEMUNKrxATION CONFERENCE. furniture, and clothing, he can become possessed of large amounts of capital, without saving anything from his weekly wages. The standard set up is not at all too high to be reached in the lifetime of a fairly jirosperous working man ; and therefore it ought not to take long to raise the mass of the nation up to the standard. It must also be borne in mind that the task is much easier for the second generation, because they have their fathers' accumulations to help them. While I have a great respect for the precept, ' Honour thy father and thy mother,' I think the duties of parents to children are much gi'eater than are the duties of children to parents. Children ai'e not consulted before they are brought into the world, so a sense of justice demands that eveiy effort shall be made to render their existence enjoyable. To train them well, and to equip them with all the tools necessary to gain a sufficient income for this purpose, is the least that can be done in fulfilment of a parent's duty. Note 17. Page 271. Associated homes. It is worth while expressing one's opinion in favour of these institutions, even at the expense of being taken for a visionary. Every man knows the immense benefit that has resulted from division of labour. The home has not been free from direct invasion. Cotton and wool used to be spun and woven at home ; now it is not. Stock- ings used to be almost universally knitted at home ; now the jDractice in England is rare. Most articles of underclothing used to be made at home, the practice is becoming less frequent, owing to the inven- tion of seAving machines. The home has also been invaded by labour- saving machinery, such as these sewing machines and wringing machines. The fact of so many changes having occurred in domestic life, impels one to ask. Why should there not be others 1 The work of women would be made much lighter by division of labour. In an associated home, one could cookj another could nurse, a thii'd could act as chamber-maid, a fourth could be the waitress, and so on. Those who wished to do nothing, and could afford the luxury, could pay their poorer or more energetic sisters to do the work for them. Note 18. Page 272. Opening museums, libraries, &c., on Sundays. The Norwood Review of December 13, 1884, says that the Upper Norwood Baptist Chapel avithorities have determined to open their school during service hours on Sunday evenings for the free use of THUKSDAY AFTERNOON. 295 those who may not care to go to church or chapel. In the school, books, magazines, and instrumental music are provided. This is a fair proof of the increasing liberality of opinion on this question. Note 19. Page 272. Love of the heautifid. The idea of Mr. Ruskin and others of keeping scenes of natural beauty for the sole enjoyment of the wealthy few, or of the small number of local poor, will not help him in his cherished object of spreading a love of the beautiful among the jieople. In his objection to the construction of i"ailways in picturesque localities, he overlooks the fact that they sometimes do look beautiful, and actually improve the landscape. There is an instance close to his old home, in the via- duct crossing Dulwich on the line from Peckham to Streatham. In- stead of preventing the erection of railways, he would be much more useful, and receive much more support, if he insisted on them being- constructed with a regard to appearances. Town working people have few chances of seeing beautiful things, only when they leave their homes and take a railway journey. The habit of railway travelling for pleasure is rapidly increasing among them. To me, with my town-bred notions, the sight of a train gUding rapidly along, now in a straight line, now in a graceful curve, with the steam curling slowly along in fantastic shapes, or perhaps being blown fiercely away, has far moi-e of the beautiful in it, than the sight of a herd of cows troop- ing along a country lane, and making the way impassable to foot passengers by the filth they leave behind them. Perhaps similar associations are at work in both cases. The imagination of the town- dweller is stimulated by the actual power visible in a railway ti^ain, to dream of man's strength and the possibility of unnumbered pleasures being derived from future discoveries ; while the sight of the cows may stimulate the countryman to dream of fields of golden corn, of overflowing harvests, punctual rent payers, and an enlarged bank balance. We want in our poorer districts more men of the stamp of the Rev. S. A.. Barnett, of Whitechapel, who in ministering with his devoted band of assistants to the well-being of the people, feels he is helping to do this by giving them opportunities of seeing and appre- ciating what is beautiful. Note 20. Page 273. Thrustiny up the residimm. I consider this is done unduly, by trying to provide this class of people with lodgings at less than the market price, and by systematically 296 INDUSTRIAL REMUNEIiATION CONFERENCE. supplying them with food at less than cost, while steady, persevering working people have to put up with worse food and worse lodgings at current prices. This is being done at the east-end of London, and probably elsewhere. Its tendency must be to make these people more satisfied with their half-vagabond life. Note 21. Page 274. Technical schools. Mr. John Slagg, M.P., in an article on Technical Instruction in the Wholesale Society's Annual for 1885, says : — ' One of the most staunch and able advocates of a national system of technical instruction and apprenticeship schools, on the German and Swiss plans, was the late Mr. Scott-Russell. In his work entitled Systematic Technical Echtcation he attempted to estimate what would be I'equired. He assumed that in 1869 (fifteen years ago), we needed at once 1,750 schools with 600,000 scholars and 10,500 teachers, and he assures us that " when the State shall have founded in England one great technical university with 100 chairs, fifteen local technical colleges with twenty -five professors to each, and 300 science and trade schools with from five to twenty-five teachers in each, it will have provided only for the teaching of 250,000, or one quarter of a million out of ten million and a quarter of the youth wanting knowledge and skill." He further states that " to do this limited work well one million per annum is necessary, or U. per head per annum from Government, in addition to local aid." He tells us else- where that the schools would be attended by youths from thirteen to fifteen, the colleges by those from sixteen to eighteen, and the miiver- sity by those who had completed their college education at eighteen. Mr. Scott-Russell's estimate of the annual cost of the State university is 195,000^., obtained as follows : — £ Annual grant from the Government . . 150,000 Annual vote from the City .... 15,000 Students' fees 25,000 Endowments ...... 5,000 Total £195,000 For each of the technical colleges he assumes that 20,000^. will be required annually from Government, making 300,000L ; half a million, will suffice for 20 first-class schools at 5,000?. each ; 100 second-class schools costing 2,000/. a year each ; and 180 third-class schools in- volving an annual Government outlay of 1,200/. each ; the balance of 50,000/. will be required for museums, libraries, &c. The buildings, THUESDAY AFTERNOON. 297 he tells US, should be provided by the town, and "100,000/. is the least sum that can adequately fulfil the purpose (of erecting a college) for a populous, industrious, wealthy town. In like manner for the schools 5,000Z. is the least sum that can be expended," or say 4,500,000?. in buildings, and 150,000/. in annual cost. These figures are interesting as showing the probable expenditure we should have to face in creating a national system of technical instruction, com- mensurate in scale with what has been attempted by some of the minor German States or by a small canton in Switzerland. The out- lay necessary to provide for the technical instruction of the country upon a truly liberal basis would, of course, be infinitely gi-eater.' Note 22. Page 274. Culture. The following is an extract from an article by Mr. R. D. Roberts, Assistant Secretary of the Cambridge University extension scheme, published in the Wholesale Society's Annual for 1885 : — ' If it were necessary or even desirable to divide life and the preparation for life into parts, it would perhaps be roughly accurate to call the preparation for bread- winning, technical education ; and the preparation for the leisure of life, culture. ' Life, however, cannot be broken up into parts, wholly distinct and separate from one another. Success in bread-winning often depends largely upon other circumstances than mere technical know- ledge. Not that technical knowledge is unimportant, it is indeed indispensable; but other circumstances also are of the highest im- portance. ' The mental acuteness and ability to take broad views, which come of definite mental training and wide knowledge; the incor- ruptible iutegrity and delight in honest work that come of the culti- vation of the moral qualities ; the sense of beauty of form and colour that artistic training gives ; all these, and more, influence in subtle ways a man's working life. * The need for something to give fulness and tone to life, although often overlaid, is never wholly absent. * How to get the best possible out of the working and leisure moments, so as to feel that life is good and worth having — that is the real problem. Large numbers of working men feel this. * In the glorious history of England, in her beautiful Hteratui'e and the literature of other countries, in the wondei-ful results of ■science, there are materials for the fullest mental cultivation. ' " Go with mean people," says Emerson, " and you think Life is 298 IXDUSTEIAL KEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. mean. Then read Plutarch, and the world is a proud place, peopled with men of positive quality, wnth heroes and demigods standing around us who will not let us sleep." In the best books we may enjoy the company of the wisest, wittiest, and noblest men the world has seen. ' There are practical benefits that come of widespread knowledge which it is not always easy to specify or estimate. Some yeai's ago^ the coal miners of the country met in conference to consider a ques- tion affecting the interests of the coal trade. The bulk of the mem- bers of the conference advocated a certain course which was opposed by the Northumberland representatives. Eventually the view taken by the latter proved to be the sound one, and the singular circum- stance that the Northumberland pitmen so generally took the accu- i-ate view of the case is attributed by them to the fact that a course of university lectures on political economy had been delivered at a number of pit villages to audiences numbering about 1,300 pitmen. * For the successful carrying on of co-operative production, men of the widest knowledge and training are absolutely necessary, and there can be little doubt that the taking up of the question of education by co-operative societies will give vigour and stability to the co operative movement.' Note 23. Page 274. The 2)ractice of equity needs teaching to cell classes. Working-men know this, in many instances, to their great sorrow. Employers of labour forget that they are simply parts of a gi-eat whole. They either ignore or do not know the beautiful teachings of S. Paul, which, for their edification I will briefly refer to : — ' But now are they many members, yet but one body. . . .' < If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body. . . and if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body. . . are they therefore not of the body 1 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelliug . . . ? ' * And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee ; nor again, the head to the feet, — I have no need of you. Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary. . . But God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked, that there should be no schism in the body ; but that the members should care for one another ' (1 Corinthians xii.). The following rules exist among others in a large London firm, employing over 2,000 hands : — THUESDAY AFTEENOON. 299 'Any employe found with matches in his possession "will be instantly dismissed, no excuse being accepted.' ' Any employe talking to a discharged employe will be instantly dismissed.' These rules scarcely can be kept. Fancy a smoker wishing to enjoy a pipe on his way to work, or on his way home, not being allowed to carry a match. "Where is the justice t Fancy a man being met in the street by a discharged employe, who stops him and says, ' How do you do 1 ' He must look the other way, and pass without a word, although the two may have been intimate friends. I lately engaged a young man who was dismissed under the second rule. Not being able to give credence to the stated cause of dismissal, the firm was written to as follows : — ' London, December 1, 1884. * Mr. has applied to us for a situation, and states that he was lately in your employ, but discharged for a breach in your rule, viz., " Talking to a discharged employe." Will you kindly inform us if this was the only reason, and if you consider him in every other respect suitable for a position as . Should this be the only reason we might give him employment.' To this the following reply was received : — ' London, December 2, 1884 * In reply to your letter dated the 1st inst., I have to acquaint you that was employed by this firm as a in the depart- ment from October 9, 1882, vmtil October 25, 1884, when he was dismissed for the reason stated by him. He was found honest, sober, industrious, and a very good ' Some of the brickmakers in Kent have to sign agreements at the beginning of every year which bind them not to work for any other firm or employer up to the ensuing September, but the firm does not bind itself to find the men work, neither does it give them a signed agreement. With very gi'eat difiiculty I have obtained a copy of the agreement, which is appended. I have known of thoroughly good honest men emigrating rather than continue to sign this one-sided document. It is a pity there is no trades union to induce fair play on the part of the masters. Co]}]/ of Agreement. — The said Labourer, in consideration of the payment of the wages mentioned in the Schedule below, doth hereby covenant, contract, and agi'ee with the said Company to perform any of the works, and at the prices therein specified, and at such times as lie may be required, and in accordance with the provisions of the 300 INDUSTRLVL REIVIUNEEATION CONFERENCE. * Factory Acts,' between the above date and the Ninth day of Sep- tember next. And further that he will not work with or for any other person or persons whomsoever during the said term, without the consent (in writing) of the s;iid Company ; and shall and will make or do his part in such capacity as aforesaid in making as many bricks as can reasonably be made in the aforesaid season. The bricks are to be well made, subject to the inspection and approval of the Managers and Foremen ; and also that he shall during the said term execute and perform all the orders and directions of the said Company, or their Managers, or Foremen ; and protect the bricks and property of the said Company from damage in any way whatsoever. And it is further agreed between the parties to this Agreement, that the said Company shall not be responsible for any delay or loss of time arising from accidents to machinery or other causes, more especially from any dispute, should any arise, between the said Com- pany and any persons engaged in any pait of the manufacture, not being work upon which the said Labourer may be engaged ; and also that the said Company shall be at liberty to deduct all rent that may be d\ie to the said Company for any house, premises, or land which, the said Labourer may occupy as Tenant under the said Company. Provided always that in the event of the said Labourer proving at any time to be incapacitated by illness, or incompetent to carry out and properly execute any work which he may be called upon to per- form under this AgTeement, that then it shall be lawful for the said Company to discharge the said Labourer forthwith, and thereupon this Agreement shall cease and be of no effect. And it is also agreed that the said Company shall be at liberty to deduct all fines and costs incurred by any infringement of the Factoiy Acts; also a fine of Five Shillings whenever the said Labourer shall be found intoxicated during the hours of working ; and likewise any money lent or advanced on account by the said Company to the said Labourer may be deducted by them at any time. As Witness the hands of the said parties the day and year first above written. Schedule of Prices Referred to in the Above Agreement. £ s. d. For moulding and making bricks, at per thousand (to be paid at the end of the season when the bricks are properly crowded) For steam mills (open hacks), at per thousand . For steam mills (covered hacks), at per thousand For day labour, per day 2 6 THURSDAY AFTERNOON. 301 £ s. d. (Time from 6 A.M. till half -past 5 p.m. Half-hour break- fast, 1 hour dinner.) For digging earth, 28 yards run, at per thousand . .007 For „ each 30 yards run afterwards at per thousand 002 For burning and crowding bricks, at per thousand Sorting bricks, at per thousand 8 Turning (61 cubic feet to the thousand), at per 100,000 .0180 Barge loading, at per thousand ...... The economic loss by neglecting to practice the pxnnciple of equity is glaringly shown in the case of railway companies. The amount of money spent in useless Parliamentary contests is well known. The still greater amovmt spent in annoying and hurting one another and the public is not known so generally. The following cutting from the Times of January 5, 188.5, is very suggestive : — ' A Railway Truce. — The rivalry between the Great- Western and South-Western Railway Companies, occasioned by the many competitive points at which their lines meet, has ended. Both com- panies have issued circulars to their respective staffs instructing them to do all in their power to assist in each other's business. This now happy state of affairs has been induced by the great outlay to which these companies' shareholders have been subjected in consequence of opposing each other's private Bills.' Note 24. Page 275. Teach mg the j)oiver of ttnio7i. Co-opei'ators are hard at work trying to do this in a regular and systematic manner. Among the leaders there is a vinanimous feeling that it is absolutely necessary, and no stone will be left unturned to diffuse a general knowledge of ' Complete Co-operation.' Mr. A. H. D. Acland, in an article on Education of Co-operators in the Wholesale Society's Annual for 1885, says : — ' Co-operators have a great advantage. Each society is inde- pendent, belongs to a definite town or village, and the members know one another, at least to some extent. What is done for education is feasily utilised by any or all of the members. At any rate, co-operators have taken advantage of the comparative ease with which they can deal with their funds to spend money on education, and they have done this with the feeling that without co-operative education co- operative progress of the best kind was improbable, if not impossible. ' It is to be hoped that this feeling of the immense importance of education for those members of co-operative societies who wish to lift the societies on to a higher level, and to utilise all their members' 302 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNEKATION CONFERENCE. savings instead of refusing them and throwing them back, is a growing one. The business capacity, the energy, and the tact requisite for the co-operative leaders of the future will not come without a very solid addition to that education which finishes with the sixth standard in the national school, or at the age of fifteen or sixteen in one of our secondary schools. There is an education wanted for our young adults — a development of their intelligence is required, and in this work co-operative societies may take a most important part. Besides what may be called the business point of view, namely, that which considers how the interest of each society may be forwarded, there is another more general point of view which many co-operators will not neglect. Just as in many a village or town, by doing away with debt and encouraging thrift, the co-operative society has raised the physical and moral condition of hundreds of people, so it may do a great deal more for its neighbourhood, at a most trifling cost to each individual member, by promoting educational work. Hardly any thoughtful co-operator will deny this. The difficulty is how to show this to members, and how to settle what is i-eally the best kind of education for adults at which to aim. ' Hitherto the money granted by societies has been chiefly spent on libraries, news-rooms, and popular lectures. In proportion as these fecilities, in which co-operators have often led the way, are granted conveniently and easily for all members by the municipali- ties, as they ought to be and will be in time in all our great towns, societies ought to turn their attention fi-om what is being done for them out of the rates which they are paying, and ought to lead the way in some other direction. It is no good trying to keep up a rivalry with what the citizens, as a body, can provide, and ought to provide. It is generally becoming clear to those co-opei'ative leaders who really have grasped the importance of edvication (for there are some who care very little about it), that co-operators have a special work to do in training their own members, first in the more special principles of their own movement, and then in the more general principles which grow to some extent out of these, and may be con- sidered to be concerned with the life of an ordinary English citizen. ' The education of co-operators and the education of good citizens, then, the one leading into or out of the other — these are the special objects to be aimed at. But people will say, ' Where there is a will there's a way. If a young fellow wants to educate himself as he grows into middle life, he can do it ; there are plenty of books about. Why should societies trouble about if? ' This is a profoundly untrue doctrine. If a young man's progress be carefully watched, how little makes the difierence as to the direction in which he is trained. Good THURSDAY AFTERNOON. 303 lectures, sound advice, the contact with a capable and sympathetic guide, may be of infinite value to a young man, to give him the start in the right direction. The Board Schools are preparing the ground. Co-operative societies may sow much good seed in this gi'ound if they choose. ' The great object of the co-operative movement is to make working people happier and more comfortable, and to give them more time and opportunity to think about their lives and duties as citizens of our great and important country. To be free from debt, to have some money saved, to be encouraged to self-education of every kind, to learn habits of forethought, to help our social progress, are steps in the right du-ection. For ordinary practical people this one thing is at least important — to edvicate the citizens, the voters, to a higher level of intelligence, to a greater sense of responsibility, to a fuller know- ledge of what opinions they really hold, whether those opinions are sound, and why they hold them. ' One special point may be worth insisting on here. Thex-e are growing up in many of our great towns local colleges, or university colleges as they are sometimes called, which are specially meant for the education of the people, which aim at making better workmen and better citizens. There are also many boards of trustees or governors, which are being remodelled from time to time, that have the management of sums of money which are intended for the edu- cation of the working classes. The boards of management of these local colleges or trusts will never carry out their work in the most eflfective way till they admit as an essential part of theii- body Genuine recognised, and trusted representatives of the working people them- selves, that is to say, representative working-men elected by trades unions, friendly societies, trade councils, co-operative societies and the like. Such men, trusted by theii" own fellows and accustomed constantly to be with them and to address them, would do somethino- by sug- gestions of what was desired by working people, but would do a great deal more by getting into close friendly relations with other »overnors with professors and teachers, and would then return to their fellow working-men who knew them, and caiTy far more weight than anyone else could in recommending the work to their serious attention.' Note 25. Page 275. These subjects ought to he included in otir national system of education. The principal objection that will rise to the lips of an ordinary middle-class man will be, ' We do too much already for the children 304 INDUSTRIAL REMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. of working-men ; they already receive too much help from public money.' This has been so often said, and is so generally believed, that the Co-operative Wholesale Society thought it worth their while to have an investigation into the relative amounts of public money, including endowments, rates, and imperial grants devoted to the education of the children of the working classes, and to the children of the classes above them. The following is the I'esult published in the Wliolesale Societt/s Annual for 1885 : — The total amount spent on working-class education is equal to 155. 4fZ. per head per annum for every child of school age. This includes cost of buildings, voluntary subscriptions, rates, and Govern- ment grants. The total amount spent on the education of children of the other classes is equal to 3^. 3s. per annum per head of the children of school age. The conclusion come to is, that * the working classes can equitably demand the thorough education of their children, even though the expense to the nation is increased by fifteen millions a year, without being justly subjected to the reproach of receiving more than their fair share of the nation's money.' Profit-Sharing and Co-operative Production. By Edwakd W. Gkeening, of the Labour Association. Public opinion has recently been attracted to all questions relating to the improvement of the working classes, and the belief that a change in the present system of employment is necessary is rapidly spreading among all students of social questions. Some time ago political economists believed that if freedom of action for the individual and freedom of international trade were thoroughly established, other social evils would cure them- selves, or be cured through the effect of unrestricted competition in arousing the energy of every one. This theory is found to be fallacious, and unrestricted competition is acknowledged to produce many evils, social and commercial. In this paper it is proposed to discuss these evils and the THURSDAY AFTERNOON. ' 305 attempts made to remedy them, and also to point out, as far as possible, where these effects have succeeded and where failed. One of the first effects of competition on the manufacturer is to produce in him a desire to manufacture goods at a lower cost than his rivals, in order to undersell them, and thus secure to himself as large a share of trade as possible. The lowering of the cost of production becomes in this way so important that almost every other consideration is sacrificed to it. This fierce competition reduces the prices of all manufactured articles, and to meet these reductions employers of labour have lowered the rate of wages wherever possible, and would have done so further had not the workers refused to submit. Instead of carrying out the doctrines of the free traders and competing against one another in the labour market, a large portion of the workers had formed themselves into trades unions for maintaining the rate of wages. These unions are combinations of men, who agree among themselves not to work under a certain amount. Although formed regardless of the principles of the Manchester school of economists, and almost unanimously condemned by them, these unions have become strong, wealthy, and in most cases are quite able to hold their ground. No one will deny that they have been instrumental in keeping up wages during a period when the prices of nearly all commodities have been steadily going down. The manufacturers having thus been prevented by the unions from reducing wages, have had to find other means of lowering the cost of production. This they have succeeded in doing by the meritorious process of offering large rewards to the inventors of labour-saving appliances, and also it must be acknowledged with regret, by sometimes lowering the standard of quality in manufactures by adulteration and other frauds on the purchasers. Trades unions are for the most part fighting organisations, saving the workers from the crush of modern competition. After all, they are but a temporary remedy for one of the many evils of our present system of pro- duction. A number of intelligent manufacturers have felt that, apart from any philanthropic considerations, to merely pay men a weekly wage is not the best way of inducing them to give their X 306 INDUSTKIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. heads and hearts to their work. This feeling has led to the adoption, by some, of the principle of profit-sharing, by which the employer undertakes to pay the workpeople a share of the profits of the workshop, beyond their wages. In many cases the workers' share of the profit is capitalised, so as to provide a fund for old age, sickness, and death. Mr. Sedley Taylor, in his work on profit-sharing, gives instances of the success of this system. The results prove it to be based on sound commercial principles. Several manufacturers working on this system have foimd their portion of the profits has been larger than the whole was previous to arranging to share with the workpeople. This increase of profit is clearly due to the fact of the workers having a direct interest in the results of their industry. Profit- sharing also effects a large saving in cost of supervision. The provident workman will see that his careless fellow- worker does his best to economise time and materials. Many of the firms which have adopted this system have risen to the first rank in their trade, and it has contributed largely to the material and moral welfare of the workers. Without doubt, therefore, profit-sharing is a step in the right direction, but the work- shops based upon co-operative principles prove that much more can be effected by giving the worker a larger interest in success than a mere share in the profits. Profit-sharing, pure and simple, appeals chiefly to the instinct of self-preservation and to a desire for material improvement. It is far from being the highest instinct to which an appeal can be made. A sense of responsibility is created by the ownership of property, and a natiu-al pride is excited if the possibility of a share in their workshops, or the tools and machinery with which they labour, and the management of the concern is opened up to them. It is sometimes stated that working-men have not sufficient capacity for conducting large commercial enterprises. This objection is met by the successful establishment and organisa- tion of the Industrial Joint-Stock Mills at Oldham and else- where, by the success of the Industrial Co-operative Stores throughout the country, and more especially by the wonderful success of the few co-operative workshops in England and Scotland. To this paper are appended tables showing the THURSDAY AFTERNOON. 307 results of both these classes of workshops, owned and managed almost entirely by working-men. The establishment and development of co-operative workshops based upon the co- partnership of the workers is the most effectual way of elevating the working population and improving the quality of English manufactures. Any real co-operative system would provide all the following conditions, viz. : — 1. A reasonable limit to the charge for the use of capital. 2. After this charge has been met, the profit should be divided in a fixed proportion between the workers and the shareholders. 3. The share list should be open to all workers, who should also be compelled to invest at least a portion of their profits in the society, not only as a provision against sickness, old age, and death, but also to give them a permanent interest in the welfare of their society. 4. Every shareholding worker should have a voice in the election of the directorate and managers, and an opportunity of obtaining any of the highest positions in the society. It is most important that the first dividend on capital should be limited to a fixed amount, as fluctuating dividends cause a constant rise and fall in the price of shares. At Oldham, where the dividends are declared solely on shares, speculative buying and selling obtains to a large extent among the industrial classes, and several of the public houses there are stock exchanges on a small scale. No one will desire to see working-men develop into gambling speculators. This rising and falling in the price of shares causes panics, during which many of the workers, through fear, improvidence, or misfortune, lose their shares, while their luckier neighbours increase their holdings. So extensively is this done that in the Oldham Mills not more than 2 per cent, of the shares of any one mill are now held by the workers in that mill. On the other hand, it is important that shareholders should receive a share of profit beyond their fixed dividend, bearing some agreed proportion to the profits" divided among the workers. Without this provision the share- holders might become interested only by making their dividend safe by large reserves and other means. X 2 308 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. After wliat has been said on profit-sharing, little need be urged in support of a large portion of the profits being divided among the workers according to the amount of wages they receive, and it should be remembered that, by paying a portion of this sum in shares, a provision is made for making every worker a shareholder in his workshop and interested in its results. By giving the workers a voice in the management of their factories a better article will be produced. Workmen take a pride in producing a good article. A speculative manu- facturer produces to sell. Utility and beauty are quite secondary considerations with him. In proof of the practicability of co-operative production there will be found in the appendix to this paper a list of societies based on the principle of labour association, with the tabulated results for the year 1883, as collected by the Central Co-operative Board. The result comes out thus : — & Share capital of the 1 5 societies . . . 71,521 Profits in 1883 8,825 Losses in 1883 134 The profits being rather over 12 per cent., after deducting the losses. The included societies embrace one large cotton mill, which, with a capital of 25,74U., made a loss of 90L Had it not been for this, the other 14 societies which recognise labour would have shown over 19 per cent, average profit on the share capitals they employ. If further proof were necessary, reference might be made to the success of co- operative workshops in France, which are generally on a much larger scale than in England. It might have been expected that the working-men who founded these societies would have appropriated the largest portion of the profits for the benefit of the workers. Strange to say, this has not been so, and by far the larger portion of the profits of these workshops are given to the capitalists and to the consumers or purchasers of the goods. Grenerally speaking, a dividend of at least 7^ per cent, and upwards has to be made for the capitalists before the worker sliares at all ; and often the purchasers are given a bonus of as much in tlie pound on their purchases as the workers receive on their wages. THUESDAY AFTERNOON. 309 This system of giving a share of the profits to the customers, although undoubtedly based upon true co-operative principles, as it tends to lessen the antagonism between the buyer and seller, and to interest the customers in the success of the works, thus inducing them to give as large a portion of their trade as possible to the co-operative workshop, has certainly been carried too far in most of the productive co-operative societies ; but in futm-e a much larger proportion of the profits should be devoted to the workers, and less to the capitalist and the consumer. But that the working-men should have voluntarily erred in the direction of favouring capitalists and consumers is only another proof that they have a sufficient sense of the importance of fairly remunerating the owners of property to entitle them to be entrusted with an important part in the management of the industries of the country. All who will carefully compare the position of the workers in a co-operative workshop with those employed with a private manufacturer will realise that the interests which labour asso- ciation creates in the mind of the worker will cause him to study many questions which he would not otherwise care about. In fact, labour association is destined to exercise a great educa- tional work among the industrial population, which must even- tually raise them from the present thraldom of an existence on mere weekly wages into thinking citizens, who will feel they have a real interest in the welfare of the State. APPENDIX. No. I.— Oldham Joint-Stock Mills. A recent return gives 71 mills, showing the following results :— £ Paid on share capital 2,976,656 Loan and debenture capital 1,915,636 Mortgages 610,735 Reserve funds (less losses) 45,853 Total £5,54:8,780 £ Average sales per annum 5,464,430 „ visages paid ditto 651,448 „ trade expenses 1,300,188 „ annual profit, being at the rate of about d\ per cent 273,936 310 INDUSTEIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. '> 1 .a o u 7| per cent, and 8^OC0i-HC005 C5 '^ CO O «0«0 l^ Or^OO (MlO'^lOTrH (M t^^ -* lO_ r CO (M lO i-H T-H O0it-i?^O«0«0OOC000(N lOt^l^-»JHC0-*IC0lOC^ -^O CO OO CO «1 l— to !>• 1— <(M O 00-*l OIOIOOJOS 05 (M iO ■-( GOO iO IQO'* iO-*OCOO C5 tfHa O CO 1-H. -*r-(lO i-HCOi-ii-H(M 05_ co' im' o ' - -i CO "^^ '^ '■^ °°.- (M t-H ,_! ■* ^H '-^ (>J 1— I d a ^1 ^ to lO O^Oi C^ OOOO OCOOSOSO -+I to 05 (M t— It- CO to O (MlO-*l>.Cer yard, 806,666 per cent., and so on. The Botanic Gardens ground, now valued at 15s. per square yard, has increased in value since it was feued sixty-six years ago 2,135 per cent. ; while compared with agricultural rent of 3/. per acre, the increase is 6,050 per cent. Acreage op Land under Crops. Com crops acres Green crops acres Grass and other crops acres Total acres 1868 . . 11,6.59,855 4,865,057 29,448,984 4.5,973,896 1883 . . 10,326,518 4,708,934 .35,421,427 50,456,879 - 1,333,337 - 156,123 + 5,972,443 F THE United + 4,482,983 Estimated Annual Land Values o KlN(JDOM. Cultivated land 50 million Per acre acres at £3 150,000,000 Town Waste lands, bogs, moors, &c. 261 ,. £200 = 10s. = = 100,000,000 13,500,000 Total 77 million acres 263,500,000 To this estimate have to be added the large levenues derived from lordships and royalties on niinei-als of all sorts, and the pro- bability is that 300,000,000/. per annum is approximate to the amount of the tax that land monopoly excises from the products of labour. THURSDAY AFTERNOON. 323 A Delegate wished to ask one question of Mr. Jones. How did it come about that E.ochdale, the Elysium of co-opei'ation, with a population of 109,000, had to pay 32,000Z. in poor rates, which was equal to 6s. per head of the population ; whereas Ashton-under- Ljme, where co-operation did not flourish, with a population of 130,000, paid only 18,000/. in poor rates, which was at the rate of 2*. lid. per head ? Mr. B. Jones, in reply, said he could only refer the gentleman who had put the question to the volume of the Co-operative JVeivs, where the whole subject had been completely thrashed out. Discussion. Professor Beesly (Positivist Society) wished to offer a few words by way of criticism on the paper of Mr. Sedley Taylor. He did not know how far the system of profit-sharing might please capitalists, but he thought it was not likely to be accepted very generally by workmen as a satisfactory solution of the labour question ; and he was very sure it ought not to satisfy them. What was the workman's ■complaint 1 It was that of the increased value given by labour to the raw material or to the unfinished article the capitalist appro- priated to himself an excessive portion, which he called his profit, and which he employed for his own advantage — either by extending his business or by giving himself certain enjoyments. The workman would not complain if his employer devoted a reasonable portion of his profit to the welfare of those who were in his service. This he might do by direct or indirect means : he might lay it by as a reserve fund, within his own control, but destined for use in worse times in order to keep up an equal level of wages. But the employer did no such thing : he took all he could get hold of, and claimed the right to use it for his own advantage ; and he did so. The profit- sharing capitalist said in eft'ect to his workmen : ' The profit I have been in the habit of taking I still intend to take. I mean to stick to it, and to use it for my own advantage. I do not intend to let you have any share of it, direct or indirect ; nor do I mean to put by a reserve fund to enable me to keep up your wages in bad times. But I tell you what I will do : if you like to woi-k harder, and take more care of my tools and my materials, and so create an adtlitional profit, then I am willing to allow you, not the whole of the additional profit, but a portion of it.' Mr. Taylor had insisted again and again that the employer's profits would be increased by this arrangement. That was the only argument by which he hoped to induce employers to adopt it. So far as that additional profit was the result of economy Y 2 324 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE, ill material and tools, tliere was nothing to be said against it : waste was a very bad thing, and should be discouraged on moral as well as on material grounds. But what did economy of time mean on which Mr. Taylor had dwelt so strongly? It meant just this, that more work was to be got in the twenty-four hours out of the workman than now : either there would be an increase of the hours of labour, and he was convinced that this would be the result of a general system of profit-sharing ; or, if the hours were allowed to remain nominally the same, the labour would be more severe, and a greater amount of it would be crowded into the same number of hours to the great fatigue and distress of the workman. What had become of the comparison between the larger wages paid now and those received in years gone by for labour in trades chiefly depending upon machinery, such as the cotton trade 1 There was no comparison, because the increased speeding of machinery, and along with it the increased labour got out of the woi'kman, caused more distress and exhaustion of mind and body to him than before. (Hear, heai\) It was not desii"able that workmen should work harder. They worked too hard already for their health, happiness, and dignity. There might be men who were attracted by the prospect of harder work and a share of fluctuating profits, even though it was only 2 per cent., as appeared to be the case sometimes. But what the bulk of the workmen wanted — and not only the bulk but the best of them — was lighter work and unfluctuating wages. There was only one way by which the workman could get a larger share of the fruits of his labour ; and that was by all non-workmen consenting to take a smaller share of them. {Hear, hear.) Miss Mary H. Hart (Decorative Co-operators' Association) read extracts from a paper treating of Obstacles to Industrial Reform. The following is the paper : — The biographer of Leclaire in his opening chapter remarks that before knowing that great captain of industry he had talked about labour, and workshops, and profits, and capital, as a blind man talks about colours. This candid confession cannot surprise any man who, like M. Chas. Robert, has clearly grasped the secret of Leclaire's success ; and who has mastered the vai'ied changes which brought that captain's industrial regiment to its present organised perfection. The gieat Frenchman knew human nature. In steady pursuit of truth he learned that to inspire confidence in others he must repose trust ; that to rule well he must be the servant of all ; that to get his lawful rights he must concede rights to those who served him, that duty alone secured happiness; and that the very joy of a life worth living lay in the spirit of self-surrender to the common THURSDAY AFTEKNOOX. 325 weal : in a word, he sought the right path, and took pains when found at any cost to walk in it. Were not the faithlessness of the world and the lack of imagination every day painfully forced upon one's observation, it would be a matter of profound astonishment to any thoughtful mind that all large employers of industry ^ — when they knew the story — should not resolve, if only for the sake of peace and security, to rise to the high moral level of the noble-heaiied French- man, and take a more equitable view of the natural rights of that large section of the human family who have only their labour to live by : at present is he not the victim of strikes as well as too freqiiently the object of the constant ill-will and suspicion of his employes 1 With capital, influence, and experience at his command what might he not accomplish 1 As the representative of a board of directors whose object in pro- moting the Decorative Co-operators' Association ^ is to develop an industrial partnership worthy of its French model, I pi'opose to set forth a few of the obstacles that beset the path of the industrial reformer. In the internal organisation difficulties vanish with com- parative ease when the workers understand that the interests of all are associated in one common band ; slowly in some cases, but sooner or later in all, the bondage of mere wage labovir becomes transformed into the service of freedom ; and the kindly testimony of a nobleman volunteered the other day to the effect that the painters in his dining- room ' were doing the work in half the time of any he had before met with,' is only one out of the many satisfactory reports that daily encourage us. The main obstacle does not rest with the workman as some would have us believe ; faults he may have, because he is only human, and he shares the frailty common to all grades of society. What I want to do is to bring the question home to the conscience of the public, to inquire whether no blame lies at the door of the consumer 1 All persons who keep their eyes and ears open must be aware that the word ' cheap ' is in everybody's mouth ; this rage for ' cheapness ' has grown to the extent of downright immorality. In one way or another the great majority are trying to get thirteenpence halfpenny for a shilling, and if they imagine they get more, they are profoundly happy, they never stop to think that some unfortunate person must be robbed ! The consequence is that this ' ignoi-ance of demand ' on the part of the public has produced, and tends every day to increase, ' adulterated supply ' ; and the purchaser ignorant of the value of the real article commits a double wrong — he either encou- rages scamped work and pays dearly for it, or else he has bought defrauded labour, and is in all probability putting very high profits • 405, Oxford Street, W. 32G INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. into the ]iocket of the thief. Leclaire was awake to this form of greed in huinan nature, and before instituting reforms which exposed him alike to the ill-will of the Government, as well as the suspicion of other employers, took the precaution of issuing fearlessly a number of pamphlets exposing the secrets of a dozen ways in which large pro- fits could be secured on scamped work, or literally on ' an adulterated article.' Leclaire's tracts on the subject have not reached me, but I will epitomise a few of these methods, restricting myself to the indus- tries with which I have made myself acquainted. The demand on the part of the public for estimates for every de- scription of work, with probably the intention — and certainly in most cases the result — of accepting the lowest tender, leads on all hands to deterioration in the quality of the work. Honourable firms undei'take it at the lowest possible profit, and often the prospect of none at all, in order to keep in the market, and have in turn to hurry the work un- duly, in order that the small margin left may not be converted into a loss, doing all the time, however, the best they can for the client with the narrow means at their disposal. The excellence of work which depends for its quality more on individual labour than on the material used, must consequently suffer much, if not in appearance at first, certainly in lasting quality. In the case, however, of men who are less scrupulous, and make as large a profit as possible out of everything and everybody — no matter whom, the client or the work- man — and who are satisfied if their work appear when finished just good enough to pass and to enable them to get their money with the minimum of discontent from the client, something more is done. Every obligation in the contract which can possibly be evaded is so much the more gain. Labour is starved and cheap material supplied. Work which at completion is out of sight is left in a disgraceful state, to be most likely a source of danger or of future expense ; and the whole is scamped in various ways. Take the building trades for example. Who has not heard of the 'jerry' builder, who runs up rows of houses of inferior half-burned and shapeless bricks, cemented with a composition miscalled mortar, into which composition the maximum of road sweepings and the minimum of lime and sand usually enter ; which houses he scarcely dare build alone, so he places thorn in rows for mutual support. Let us call such support ' corrupt association.' Into far better houses than these, however, the scamp- ing workman enters, and driven by the necessity of squeezing every possible penny out of the work, he falls to and does his best to make its quality correspond with the low value of his master's contract. The carpenter uses green tmseasoned wood, put together with ill- fitting joints and in the roughest manner; trusting to his fellow- THURSDAY AFTERNOON. 327 labourer the painter to smother over many of his sins. His timbers are thick enovigh to keep in place under ordinary strain, and that is all. Any abnormal stress may be followed by a coroner's inquest, but what cares he — his bill is paid 1 The painter forgets as many of the coats contracted for as he is able, and omits to make much prepara- tion for those he does put on, with the probable result of flaking or peeling off under the slightest heat. He ' puts on two coats at once,' as he calls it, by daubing on his colour with extra thickness, its shrinking, softness, cracking lia,r-ness- 408 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. maker, shoeing-smith, implement-maker, and other trades is promoted. Such being the ease for a small quantity of land, what might not be done with the 70,000 acres now out of cultivation in the county of Essex alone, if the question were grappled with tirmly by the capitalist or the philanthropist ? My own opinion is that our large towns and cities would speedily lose the agricultural portion of their population who have been unduly competing in the labour market, to the advantage of nobody in jjarticular, but to the great harm of those whose services they have displaced. Then, I trust, we shall hear no more of the sad realities depicted by the Rev. Stopford Brooke in the paper read this morning by Dr. Wallace, of the labourei-, his wife, his son, and two daughters, who had drifted into London after being turned out of their cottage-home in the country. Work being bad, he says they each went from bad to worse, and in a few months the father was in prison, the wife dying, the son a criminal, and the daughters on the streets. Pray let us do our best to bring about a better state of things. England has not only the land, but sufficient capital profitably to work it ; the question is engaging the attention of many of the distributive co-operative societies, who have thousands of surplus capital they are at their wits' end what to do with, though many, I may add, have given a helping hand to my own association ; and I trust the outcome of this Conference will put tens of thousands of acres of land again under cultivation, to the mutual advantage of everybody connected with so great an industry. (Applause.) Mr. David Holmes (Northern Counties Weavers) said he was forced to the conclusion that there was a good deal more to be said by some one upon the land question. There was a total absence of information in the paper of Professor Newman as to the method and the machinery by which he would transfer land and nationalise it. This was an important part of the business, because if you were to take the land unceremoniously, that would not be for the good of the greatest number. He could have wished that Mr. Williams would have drawn a distinction between the right to personal property and the right to ])roperty in land. He would respect as scrupulously as any one the rights of a man in artificial property, in anything he could by law remove ; but the land was another kind of property entirely. It was national. It was not amenable to the laws of supply and demand. You could not make it less or more. You could not in- crease it, whatever demand you might make ui)on it. It was there before the owners were born, and it would be there after they were gone. Did the advocates of individualism seriously contend that the working poi)ulatiun were to be kept in their piesent position, and that the unearned increment was to continue to go into the pockets of FRIDAY MOENING. 409 •private individuals 1 — this great increase that was taking place, not from any efforts of theii'S, but from the operation of natural law and the inci'easing demands made upon it by a growing population. The unearned increment due to this cause ought not to belong to any one man or to a particular class. There was no escaping from this, and in a general way he would say the sooner we set about effecting a change in the land laws the better. In a period of twenty years our population had increased by 7,000,000, and our agricultural labour- ing population had decreased by 300,000. We had 7,000,000 more mouths to feed, and 300,000 fewer cultivators to feed them. In these circumstances fair traders would have difficulty in persuading us to put any tax on the importation of food. Whilst this increase of popu- lation went on, and the cultivation of the land declined, there must be a flow of the unemployed from the agricultural districts to the indus- ti'ial districts, thus flooding the labour market. It was certain agricultural labourers did not want to be thus driven from their homes, and experience showed they would not leave them if they could possibly help it, and certainly not to put up with privation in the towns. The people were driven into the urban districts against their will because they could not find the means of subsistence. The un- earned increment went into the pockets of a few, and this was the proflt-lifting which gi-inds down wages. He would ask Professor Newman to lay before them some scheme by which he would trans- fer land from its present owners to the State. Major Ckaigie (Local Taxation Committee) said it was necessary that some one having a tolerably intimate acquaintance with the •conditions of agriculture should say a few words in reply to the hypo- thesis on which sevei'al papers proceeded, that it would be a great advantage and would result in increased production were we to cut up and redistribute land of this country in small and minute portions. He could not find that either the exi^erience of English or foreign farming, or the laws that were known to i"egulate the question of pro- duction, gave any ground for the belief that by this remodelling and reducing of our agricultural units we should increase the food supply of this country. On the contrary, we should deci-ease it. By abandon- ing the system of agriculture on a mixed scale which now obtained in England, embracing both large and small farms, each in suitable dis- tricts, we should lessen the result to the community as a whole. Which of all peoples in the world were the poorest 1 Those that depended most entirely upon the cultivation of the land. The larger the percentage of any people engaged in agriculture the poorer the community. Think of the miserable culture of peasants on the many xaillion farms of India, with the poorest of all cultivation and the 410 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. smallest production, ground down as peasants without capital of their own must be by the money-lender, and producing on their five-acre plots some 9^ bushels of wheat to the acre to our 28 or 30 ! Could any country be named that produced anything like so large an amount per acre as England did all round 1 There was no couiatiy in which the cultivation of the soil could obtain, as by our system of landlord and tenant he could obtain here, a loan of capital at 2Ty or 3 per cent. This he could do in England owing to the system of tenure whereby the cultivator paid rent for his land without having to lock up his capital in its purchase. If the land was ever to be violently taken from one set of owners without compensation, and handed as a free gift to the new cultivators, how was it proposed they should get the working capital requisite for cultivation 1 He denied that the land they were talking so much about was properly described as a natural product. In the sense in which we knew it, and in which they meant it to be redistributed, it was not a simple but a composite and an artificial production. It had been made fit for cultivation only by a large ex- penditure of capital on roads, drains, fences, houses, tillage. To deny this was to ignore the facts of the case. What the land would have been without this expenditure might be seen in some parts of the Highlands, or the West of Ireland, or in the jDrairies of America. The value of land was virtually created by the added capital. (' Labour.') It did not increase in value without capital and labour being expended upon it. Most certainly land so improved was an artificial production, and you could not deal with rent as anything but a composite payment, whereof intei-est on capital sunk was a large and material factor. The heavy taxation of land in England was one gi-eat reason why the old peasant propi-ietary, the class of yeomen, had so nearly disappeared ; they were overwhelmed by exceptional and gi'inding taxes, which fell most heavily upon the small owners. Land could certainly not be profitably cultivated, at all events in small holdings, so long as it was severely, inequitably, and unjustly taxed. If we wished to increase the number of small owners — and he for one would not be sorry to see that if it were practicable — we must reduce that most impolitic and absurd tax upon the production of home-gi-own food which we now impose by our mode of levying rates upon tlie land. These taxes were little thought of because it was imagined they fell only on a particular class of persons, who were fancied to be wealthy and able to bear the burden. But there were still, it should not be forgotten, as many as 300,000 landowners in the United Kingdom, of whom not two- thirds owned 10 acres apiece, and four fifths were owners of estates under 100 acres. Our present taxation of land prevented capital being placed in the soil to raise TKIDAY MORNING. 411 food for the sustentation of the country. We could not, he felt sure, raise the food supply by simply cutting up the land of England in five and ten-acre plots ; the country that did that would be certain to be- come a poor and retrograding country : but if we wanted gradually to encourage the holding of land by a larger number of small owners than at present, we must lighten the taxation which the land now bears. Mr. Ball (Agricultural Labourers' Union) said that the paper of Mr. Balfour appeared to require more consideration than it was likely to get. If he had been trained in the same school as Mr. Balfour, he might perhaps have written a paper on similar lines ; but if he had been educated like Mr. Balfour, and yet trained as an agricultural labourer, he could not possibly have done so. Undoubtedly he had made a clever apology for things as they are, and an able defence of the existing land system. Mr. Balfour appeared to say on behalf of the landloi"ds, ' The land is ours ; we are the landlords ; we are your landlords, and there are no better on the earth.' The last speaker had referred to the capital necessary to improve the land ; but where did the capital first come from to do it 1 The most ancient employ- ment was the cultivation of land ; how was it, then, that capital was so much glorified and labour so much ignored 1 (Applause.) As he understood, capital was the product of laboiu" — so much over and above what labour required for its present necessities. If so, then labour was the mother of all wealth, and he claimed for labour a much better share than had yet been given her. Mr. Balfour spoke of the necessity for encouraging the application of capital to the soil. It might be advantageous to inquire what it was that had promoted the accumulation of land in the hands of a few large proprietors. If you swept away every privilege that had been claimed by owners, if you gave to landed property no more privilege, nor power, nor influ- ence than other capital receives, there would not be so much eager- ness to keep up these large estates. It was well known that small holders had been bought out, frequently at enormous prices, in order to clear small holders away^ so that the boundaries of the lordship might include every inch of land within them ; and much of the land now paying no interest, on account of the high price it had cost, had ab- sorbed capital thus invested — not invested for the benefit of the masses of the people, but to glorify and satisfy the ambition of a landowner. He had been able to purchase it because he had had plenty of spare wealth to purchase it with, out of rents received from other land. It was said that our landlords had spent more upon permanent improve- ments than the landlords of other countries. Granted that they had ; where did they get it from to spend, and for what reason had it been expended? To improve their own surroundings or, from philan- 412 INDUSTEIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. thropic motives, to improve the surroundings of others 1 Those who had been lowly brought up and little educated might perhaps take erroneous views of these matters ; but depend upon it they would have to be looked at from more sides than one. It would be found that owners had improved theii* estates at the expense of the general public, on whose shoulders they had thrown every burden they could. Something had been said about improved loads. When the roads began to be extensively macadamised, trusts were established and toll-gates were set up, not to benefit the people who used the roads, but to remunerate the landlords for supplying the capital for the improvement; and a man who owned a horse and cart as a means of making a livelihood was made to pay twice or thrice as much as the man who drove a carriage for pleasure, and did nothing to earn a living. Why did they abolish turnpike trusts ? So that those who used the roads for purposes of pleasure might be exempt from paying anything at all. (No, no.) Well, that was his view of the case. It was said that the Legislature had been steadily woi'king to free agri- culture from hindrances which impeded its natural development, ad such legislation been fi-eely conceded by the landowners 1 No ; it had been wrested from them just as labourers would have to wrest from them a more equitable share of the profits that resvilted from labour; The last speaker seemed to think it would be a loss to the nation if more of the land were appropriated by small owners. If Ave only gave them as fair conditions, and as free scope as we had given to the large landowners, the experiment would be more suc- cessful and more satisfactory. All his lifetime we had been trying to make two classes of people in the rural disti'icts, the one rich and the other poor, and much of the mischief of the present day had resulted from this ; and yet it was said that we must continue the system in the hope of gaining some benefit. He did not advise that we should cut up all the land into small holdings, but he did advocate such changes that a man might — if by thrift, industry, and sobriety he could manage to accumulate a little money — have the opportunity of •either hii-ing or purchasing on reasonable terms a plot which he could cultivate with advantage to the community and to no one's injury. He held that numbers of men would do this if opportunity was given on fair conditions. It was said that the incidence of taxation fell heavily on small owners and occupiers : and why was that? It was because the assessment had been in the hands of rich men, or of men who were under their influence, and those who suffered had no voice in it. (Applause.) Mr. A. Balfour, M.P., said he acquiesced in his long paper being taken as read if he might be allowed a little latitude in reply FRIDAY MORNING. 413 in case his paper were attacked. But it had scarcely been com- mented upon except by the last speaker, and he had not touched the agricultural question as it was treated in the paper. Mr. Ball said that land in England had been driven up to an excessive price by the privileges given to landowners. By implication he thovight that it would diminish the value if the land were divided, as in France and Belgium, among a large number of small proprietors. But the prices of land were more excessive in France and Belgium than in England. It was not denied that no landowners had spent more than those of England and Scotland ; but Mr. Ball asked on what they had spent it. Unhesitatingly he affirmed that they had sj^ent more on unre- munerative improvements than the landowners of other countries. He did not i-efer to improvements made for their own benefit — parks, gardens, and the like ; but he referred to improvements such as draining and fenciag, and the building of houses and cottages. No other class had gone to the same extent in spending money unremunera- tively. (' Scotland,' and ' The Highlands.') He included the High- lands in speaking of the improvement of dwellings for the people working on the land. Mr. Williams in a lively speech said that the measure that was meted out to the landlords must also be meted out to capitalists. "While not agreeing in all that Mr. Williams said he heartily agreed with him in this sentiment. (Hear, hear). If they meant to establish socialism they must establish universally, and not tinker at the system. Mr. Wilson did not say how the proposed division of the royalties between capitalists and minei'S was to be made. He presumed that if the i-oyalties were abolished the only result would be that the profits of the capitalist would be increased, and the money that he now paid to the landlord he would put into his own pocket. Did Mr. Wilson think that by any operation known to him he could induce the mine owners to hand over to the miners their supposed shai-e of these royalties 1 It was surprising to hear that Mr. Wilson, after he had proposed to appropriate the royalties for the benefit of the miners, was in favour of nationalising the land. Nationalising the Durham coalfields did not mean giving the royalties to the capitalists and the miners, but it meant giving them to the whole country, so that Mr. Wilson's share would be a small one. Mr. Holmes was anxious to appropriate the ' uneai'ued increment ' of the landlord, but he would find that it was smaller than he thought, and, if he might coin a phrase, it might be called the unearned decre- ment. (' The Duke of Westminster ; ' and laughter.) The Rev, S. Headlam said that the hon, member stated in his. paper that land was an almost unsaleable commodity. Did that state- ment apply to the large towns 1 414 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. Ml'. Balfour said it did not, and the context would show that he was speaking only of agricultural land. Mr, Wallace affirmed that the dependence of labourers upon the farmers for employ- ment was the cause of low wages ; he dealt at length with the magic ■of pi'operty, and he said the vital point of his scheme was founded upon the assertion of Professoi- Rogers, to the eflect that wages were higher where a peasant proprietaiy existed. This was spoken of as an un- doubted ffxct. It might be undoubted by Mr. Rogers, but it was not only doubted, it was known to be untrue by all who had examined what the wages were in countries where a peasant proprietary did exist. France and Belgium were held up as examples of what a peasant pi-o- prietary could do for a country, and agricultural wages were lower there than here, while on the whole the dwellings of the labouring classes in the agricultural districts were mvich worse. If the dependence of the labourei's on the employer was the cause of low wages, he did not observe that the scheme of Mr. Wallace would get rid of this dependence of the labourers. Mr. Wallace proposed to give them, not allotments, but a perpetual tenure of their small holdings of from one to five acres. Now on such a holding a labourer could not live without having other work ; and it was certain that if he required other work you did not get rid of his dependence, and he was as dependent as if he had no land at all. Nay, he was more so, because the fact of his having the land tied him down to a district of the country, and made it difficult for him to go to a distx'ict where higher wages might be got. Therefore, far from making him less dependent you made him more so. This was brought out clearly by an ex- amination of the facts as to France and Belgium. {' The Channel Islands.') Well, owing to peculiarities of situation and climate, the industry of the Channel Islands was practically market-gardening, and the islanders had the first command of the London market. Peasant proprietors might perhaps flourish where market-gardening was a prevailing industry ; but in regard to the staple products of agriculture, meat and corn, small proprietors hud not succeeded, were not succeeding, and would not succeed. Nothing Avas more absolutely certain from statistics than that, whatever other objections might be raised to the English laud system, you cannot raise against it the objection that it does not produce food for the people, because, as a matter of fact, the pioduction of food for the people is not only greater, but far greater in this island than in any other (-ountiy of the world. As to the expectation that peasant proprietorship would bring about a great moral reform, this was not the experience of France. An in- teresting monograph on the agriculture of Normandy had been written by a Frenchman. It was written in an optimist spirit and FRIDAY MORNING. 415 with an evident desire to take as favourable a view as he could ; and yet he reported an increase of drunkenness, and dwelt upon other symptoms which he bitterly regretted. The only answer he desired to make on other points was contained in the final paragraph of his paper. Dr. "Wallace in reply said the details of the plan for the na- tionalising of the land could not be embodied in a paper confined to general principles, and therefore for the details he must refer Mr. Holmes to the publications of the Land Nationalisation Society. Mr. Williams said that the nationalisation of the land would pi-o- vide no remedy for the grievances of labourers and mechanics, and would only make capitalists more powerful than now. This assertion which Mr. Williams gave no facts to support, was demonstrably un- true. What was the source of the power of the capitalist over labour 1 It was simply that labour had no other resource but to work for the capitalists, and there was no capital in the country but what was in their possession. The proposal of the Land Nationalisation Society would immediately tend to the creation of a class of small capitalists over the whole country. These capitalists would be able freely to associate and to have in their midst small industries and manufac- tures in which they would invest their joint capitals and employ their surplus labour. The effect of this would be to take the wind out of the sails of the capitalist. His power had depended ujaon having an unlimited amount of labour. Limit his supply of labour and you limit his power ; and you do this by giving the people free access to the land, thus enabling them to acquire capital and to utilise it by asso- ciation. Referring to Mr. Wilson's remarks on the evil effects of royalty rents, he had always maintained that if there was one aspect of private property in land which was more atrociously unjust than another, it was that a private individual should be allowed to mo- nopolise not the surface only, but the actual bowels of the earth which it must be i-emembered were not merely used, like the surface but destroyed for ever. (Applause.) The deposits there were held by us as a trust for future generations, and yet we not only allowed individuals to make a profit out of that trust, but we allowed them to export coal and other minerals at the greatest rate possible, there- by preventing the development of the mineral resources of other parts of the world, and at the same time deteriorating the entire country for our successors. What would the next generation say when the coal was exhausted and when they found that our appropriation of it had rendered the country less valuable and less habitable to them? Would they not say that we had betrayed our trust 1 What had we gained by it ? Only a host of millionaires who had obtained their wealth 416 IXDUSTEIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. by exporting their country's coal. It was absolutely iniquitous that any Government should have allowed this to be done, as much as if they had allowed portions of our land to be sold to a foreign Govern- ment. Both would be the betrayal of a trust. Mr. Balfour had remarked that if the royalties were divided, the miners would get veiy little. That would be so if the royalties of one district only were divided, but if the royalties of the whole country were in the possession of the Government, it would make a serious diminution in the taxation. Mr. Rowland objected to land nationalisation alto- gether, and pi'oposed a scheme of his own under which the State was to interfere in order to prevent good land being kept out of cultiva- tion. Did he think what that involved 1 There would have to be an army of inspectors going about the country ; and officialism, jobbery ^ and corruption would neutralise any good from the scheme. What was wanted was to diminish Governmental action and to leave the free play of supply and demand to attain the desired result. Let the people have the land freely on fair terms and it would not remain uncultivated. There would not be the slightest necessity to have Government inspectors to see that it was cultivated. Major Craigie did not attempt to prove his assertion that the cultivation of small plots would not increase the food supply. On this point, and on that of wages, you could not compare foreign countries with this country unless you knew all the conditions. You must know the conditions under which the labourer lived, the price of food, and the effective value of wages ; without these the mere comparison of money wages was utterly valueless. There was an enormous body of facts opposed to- Major Craigie. A collection of them from all Europe was given in Mr. J. S. Mill's Political Economij; and it was proved that with a peasant proprietary there was a scale of living and an amount of comfort and con- tentment which were unknown to the English agricultural labourer, and even to English mechanics. In reply to a good deal of what Mr. Balfour said, he would read a portion of a letter from a clergy- man in Devonshire, the Rev. Mr. Taylor : — ' The labourers are leaving the country wholesale, so that now if extra labour is wanted by any more than ordinarily enterprising farmer he can't get it for love or money. Here is one fact, which will give you some idea of how the labourers live : — One family consisted of father, mother, and six chil- dren under ten; wages \0s. a week; \s. a week rent. How could this man pay for food, clothing, firing, school-pence, and doc*;or out of his wages 1 I don't know : but his wife told mo tliat wlion mowing- time came round (in 1883) he was so weak from insufficient food that he could not mow, and so lost a great part of the extra wages which he depended upon for paying his rent, &c.' This was what the Biitish FKIDAY MOENING. 417 agricultural labourer was reduced to in these times when we are assured he was so well off! (Hear, hear.) Mr. Taylor also gave an interesting account of one working farmer in his parish who made farming pay and did not grumble. He said : — ' There is one man here who does not complain and who seems to thrive ; so I interviewed him. " What is the real cause in your opinion, Mr. Bakers, of this depression 1 Is it the low price of produce only 1 " " No, sir, it is the bad farming and extravagance ; they live too fast ; farmers didn't used to live like it. This has been a very good year ; my son there raised 1,200 bushels of barley, and was offered 3s. 3d. a bushel for it. He wanted 3s. Qd. to make it pay, so he ' fed ' it all, and we found it paid him over 4s. a bushel, besides all the manure being left on the land. I don't want no Protection ; I'm all for Free Trade. But there you see, sir, we are always about. We don't go shooting nor nothing. We looks to everything ourselves, and we makes it pay and pay well, even now. No ! I don't complain of tithes or poor-rate, because I had my land with them on it. The only thing I complain of is some of the local rates. My brother shared ahke with me, and I bought his land of him. He put his money out to interest. Now he has got nothing to pay on that but income tax. I have got all these i-ates, sanitary, highway, and others besides. I don't call that fair. But that's all I have to complain of." Tliis man farms his own land. It is well manured, well worked, and now very profitable. However bad the year, he never lets the land get foul, and then when a good year comes he gets the return at once. And his labourers are the same for years and years. They live in his own cottages — the best in the place ; they are paid better, and made to work harder, than any and they all stick to him. He is a crotchety old customer and his temper is not angelic, but in his way he has done a good work in the world.' (Applause.) If such men succeeded in these hard times and under such conditions, there was no I'eason why others should not do the same under more favourable conditions. It was proposed that they shovild be allowed to come upon the land by a process of natural selection ; and if industrious and thrifty men succeeded, there would soon be numbers of them all over the country. All argument as to the plan not succeeding, came to nothing until it was tried. He could only refer to his book for the pi-oof of facts which had been denied by Mr. Balfour. A considerable part of Mr. Balfour's paper was devoted to a criticism of the proposals of the Land Nationalisation Society, but they were not fairly repre- sented. It was repeatedly assumed that it was proposed to give every man five acres of land, and it Avas contended at great length that he could not live upon it. But the Society had never made any E E 418 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. such proposal, and therefore the criticism was entirely beside the mark. The proposal was that the labourer who wished for land should have one acre or two acres in the place where he knew he could get work. It was a most extraordinary statement that a labourer who had this land would be more dependent than now upon an employer. The farmer or the capitalist could not do with- out labour ; he must have it at certain times ; and all experience showed that if you had a settled population of industrious labourers, they were always ready to suit their own time to that of the farmer, and to give him the labour when he wanted it, but at the same time they were not so dependent as to have their wages driven down to starvation point. (Applause.) AFTEENOON SESSION. WOULD THE MORE GENERAL DISTRIBUTION OF CAPITAL OR LAND, OR THE STATE MANAGEMENT OF CAPITAL OR LAND, PROMOTE OR IMPAIR THE PRODUCTION OF WEALTH AND THE WELFARE OF THE COMMUNITY? The Question discussed and answered. By Lord Bramwell. The first part of the question assumes that a more general dis- tribution of capital or land can by some means be brought about. For otherwise it would be to discuss what would result from what cannot take place. I cannot agree to that assump- tion ; I cannot at least agree that it can be brought about by any means which would cause it to promote the production of wealth and the welfare of the community. The general distribution of capital and land in a commu- nity is the result of natural causes, and could be altered only by legislation, which would be mischievous, and impair the produc- tion of wealth and the welfare of the community. There are two men, one born healthy, strong, intelligent, indus- triousjthrifty — the other sickly, weak, dull, idle and improvident. These two men will certainly be differently off in life. So will their children and children's children, even if the State should make itself heir to all deceased persons. One of the two men will be poor, the other rich. How is a more general distribu- tion of land and capital among such to be brought about ? Is the poor man to be made rich ? How ? Is the rich man to be made less rich ? That can, indeed, be done, but can it be done by any means that would promote the production of wealth and the welfare of the community ? Certainly not. E E 2 420 IXDUSTKIAL REMUNEEATIOX CONFERENCE. I know, of course, that a law might be made bringing everything into hotchpot, and dividing the mass into equal shares, one for each member of the community, which certainly would produce a more general distribution of laud and capital, but I suppose no one contemplates this. For my own part, I have no superstitious reverence for the institution of separate or private property. Show to me that its abolition would be for the general good, and I would vote for it, letting down the present possessors gently. But my opinion is most clearly the other way, for reasons I shall give at length in answer to the second part of the question. If that institution is to be pre- served, it would be useless to make such a distribution as I have supposed. For at the end of six months there would be a difference in the wealth of members of the community. Some would have wasted their shares, some have increased theirs (unless, indeed, that was forbidden, which would be most disastrous), and it would result that some would be poor and some rich. I cannot suppose, then, that a law directly taking from those who have, and giving to those who want, is expedient. But, unless some such mischievous contrivance is resorted to, there must be an inequality of conditions, and an inequality in which there will be the very poor and the very rich. I say, then, that there are no means by which there can be a more general distribution of land and capital which would promote the wealth and welfare of the community. I do not understand the question to mean whether countries where there is less inequality of wealth are happier — say Prussia, rural Switzerland, or Norway. If it did, I would merely say that I believe that in such countries there is less wealth, but as much and as great poverty, not so squalid, not so offensive, but as great. I do not say that nothing can be indirectly done to lessen the inequalities of conditions and improve that of the poor. Heavy taxes might be put on successions which woidd allow of the diminution of taxes that fall on the poor. Taxes which fall on their luxuries, but which they will pay to the lessening of their means for necessaries. The motive for saving in the rich would be diminished indeed, which is bad, and there FEIDAY AFTEENOON. 421 would be shifts and evasions to avoid the tax. So also, more of other taxation might be put on the rich. This, however, would be attended with the inconvenience, that one class would furnish the State with funds and another spend them. Education might be made gratuitous. Mr. Fawcett says ' No.' So I suppose allotments of small pieces of land in rural districts might be made more easy. I wish here to notice a passage in Mr. Wallace's paper : — He suggests that there should be a power of compulsorily taking land for small farms. This does not shock my notions of the respect due to property. The same argument he uses has occurred to me, namely, you may take land for a railway or canal or school, why not for a farm ? My doubt is if the farmer could be found — and the capital ; when they are, I incline to think that the land also can be found. Emigra- tion might be assisted. This, with' a prudent restraint on marriage and the bringing into the world of numbers of children, would make the poor less poor. This is most important whatever else can be done, nothing will be effectual for the good of the labourer unless he will help himself by not multiply- ing the numbers of those who possess his possession, and com- pete with each other for its employment. The abolition of the law of primogeniture would probably in time make the rich less rich, and so tend to reduce the inequality of condition at present existing. Whether this abolition is desirable on political considerations I do not say. That a larger number of pro- prietors, if prosperous, would be most beneficial I doubt not. That they cannot be brought into existence by direct legislation I am certain. . That they could make a living I much doubt. I offer no opinion on these various matters, as I do not think they bear on the question of a ' more general distribution of capital and land.' I only mention them to show they are not forgotten. As to the other part of the question, viz. : would the State management of capital or land promote or impair the produc- tion of wealth and the welfare of the community, I say, without hesitation, that State management of land or capital would impair such production and welfare. I can only repeat what I have said before, till men are as honest, some may think as 422 INDUSTRIAL REMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. senseless, as the bees, they will not work for the community as zealously as each works for himself. Consequently the total produce will not be as great in the former as in the latter case. When each man knows that the size of his ration will be the same whether he works or not, and knows that others will shirk, he will shirk too ; and the poverty and misery of all will follow. Besides there is the impossibility of managing such a large national farm or factory. Also such a state of things would have a most depressing, deadening, effect on all, and make life a dull misery. As to the nationalisation of land, I desire to speak of it with all the respect due to those who honestly believe in its desirability. But the scheme is impossible. If a man has the interest in a piece of land for a day, he is for that time a land- o%vner. I suppose that in any scheme of nationalisation the tenant would have it for a year, that he might sow and reap. I suppose he Avould pay a rent to the State for it. Suppose lOZ. paid for a piece of land for a year, and suppose the occu- pier said, Let me have it for ten years, and I will give you 20/. a year, ought not the State to accept the offer ? Then suppose he said. Give it me for ever and I will pay 30?. a year ? Again, ought not the State to agree ? He would then be that hateful creature a landowner, subject to a rent- charge. Now suppose the State wanted to do work and had to borrow money, and suppose he offered to give for the redemption of the rent-charge a sum which could not be borrowed for less than 40/. a year. Again, ought not the State to accept his offer ? Yet in that case he would become a hopelessly unmitigated landlord, one of those whom ]Mr. George calls robbers, and a proper object of plunder. Without going into tlie question of natural rights this is true : when men are united in society all their rules and insti- tutions are artificial. And if any of these is against the general good, it should be abrogated. But I am satisfied that the institution of private property in land is for the good of society, as is the right of each man to the benefit of his own labour. It gives each man a motive, and the strongest, to make the best of his means and his work. I agree with the late Sir FRIDAY AFTEEXOOX. 423 "SV. Siemens, who said, ' If an invention lay in the gutter unowned, I would give it to a particular owner, that some one might have a particular interest to develop and push it.' I believe that the best thing for all is that there should be what I believe the Americans call ' the largest pile.' Though the shares may be unequal, there will be the greatest bulk to divide, the greatest average share, the greatest amount of enjoyment, the greatest individual wealth perhaps, but the least individual poverty. As to the mischievous nonsense about each child being born with a right to share in the land, the short way of dealing with it is this, that he should have a share is it expedient or not ? If expedient, let him have it, whatever his right may be ; if inex- pedient, refuse it, whatever his right may be. Or rather be sure he has no right. It is nonsense to talk of such a right. As I have said, all rights in a state of society are artificial. It might as well be said he had a natural right to a box at the opera. Mr. G. Potter, in a letter to the Times of July 7, recom- mends ' the nationalisation of land.' He seems to suggest it as a remedy for the mischief occasioned by farmers having recourse to pasturage instead of tillage. Now the farmers do this because they get the greatest profit by it, and would con- tinue to do it for that reason, even if they paid no rent for their land. They now get, or ought to get, the fair reward for their capital and personal labour. If they paid no rent, they would get that rent in addition. But I infer that Mr. Potter, in consideration of their having to pay no, or less, rent, would make them revert to tillage instead of pasturage, because, as he says, the gross produce would be greater and the labour employed more. That may be so. Kicardo long ago pointed out that though the net profit from the use of machinery might be greater, yet the gross produce might be less than the gross produce of the same capital using manual labour, and so there might be less for the labourer and other consumers. True. But we use machinery, and this is certain that it is out of net profits that saving takes place and capital increases, and it is also certain that the most disastrous thing for 424 INDUSTEIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. what are called the working- classes, would be to diminish this increase of capital. But how would Mr. Potter bring about this change ? By a direct law that the farmer should have such a proportion of his land in tillage ? I believe such a thing im- practicable. But farther, what does Mr. Potter contemplate if the farmer is to pay no, or less, rent ? Confiscation ? That nothing shall be received by the landowner ? That if A has sold his railway stock and bought land, and B has sold his land and bought railway stock, A shall lose his land but B keep his rail- way stock ? Why ? It is said that the private ownership of land is robbery, and that every owner of land knows it. This, if honest, is crazy nonsense. All property exists by law, and one is owned as honestly as the other. Are all the members of building societies thieves ? I do not believe this is Mr. Potter's intention, though it may be that of others. As to them, the only argument I use is that if they attempt to put their opinions into practice they must be fought. But if the farmer is to pay no rent, or less rent, in consideration of his increasing his tillage, and yet the landowner is not to be plundered, where is his compensation to come from ? From general internal taxation, or from a customs duty ? There is no other source. Does Mr. Potter think that either would be for the good of the community ? He quotes with approval a letter which says we pay 150,000,000L a year for what we might grow at home. But to do tliat every quarter of wheat which now costs, say 40s., would cost at least 50s., and other things in proportion. For you cannot raise the price of one article of food unless you raise the price of other articles which compete with it. The 150,000,000^. then would cost 187,500,000^., or 37,500,000^. more. Would this be a gain to the country ? I have assumed that gross produce is less under pasturage than under tillage, and that labour is less ; but the liberated labour is sure to be employed on other productions. The Tir)ies concisely disposes of Mr. Potter's idea, by saying that it is protectionist unless it means the robbery of those who chance to own land at present. ' People can always be relieved for the moment by stealing other people's goods.' Only a word as to that part of the question which asks about FEIDAY AFTERNOON. 425 the State management of capital. It might as well be asked whether the State management of capital and labour at Portland Prison is not as productive and pleasurable as the private management of them. I say capital and labour. They cannot be dissociated. Separately they are useless. Those who manage capital must manage labour. On this subject I refer to a pam- phlet by Mr. Stanley Kobertson on ' Communism,' published by the Liberty and Property Defence League. (See Appendix.) I answer the second part of the question peremptorily in the negative. APPENDIX. Let us concede, then, for argument's sake, that a State organisation could be created — er rather that a group of organisations could be created within each State — which should provide for all the physical wants of the community, and regulate all merely material life, so as to exclude povertj^ to the utmost, and get rid of most of the ills poverty brings in its train. I will go so far as to suppose that all this could be done without a forcible revolution, though the Conti- nental advocates of schemes of this sort (CoUectivists, Socialists, or Communists, as they are called) are commonly reproached with being anarchists, hecavise they are apt to try to carry their projects into effect by violent and subversive means. As a matter of fact, we shall see that the success of such schemes would be by no means anarchic in effect, but, on the contrary, would involve an unheard-of tightening of the chains of authority. For a Collectivist community could only he kept at work on certain veiy rigid conditions, the acceptance of which would he a very high price to pay, even for the exclusion of poverty. Fust, it would be necessary that the State should sitperintend the provision of food, lodging, clothing, and all the material necessaries of life for every citizen, just as the commissariat department of an army provides for the soldiers. Now, anyone who knows what the administration of an army commissariat is, knows that even such a limited body as an army is most difficult to provide for. In our own army, as a general rule, the supplies are inadequate as often as any extraordinary call is made upon them. In most foreign armies, when the supplies are adequate, they are so much more than adequate as to err on the side of lavishness. The high state of efficiency of the German army is purchased at the cost of a crushing tax on German industry. Now, let us suppose that, instead of a quarter of a million 426 INDUSTKIAL EEMUNEEATIOX CONFEKENCE. of adult men, or even a million, the whole population had to be provided for — some thirty or forty millions, including not only picked and full-grown men, but the aged, the sick, delicate women, and young children. Surely to superintend the distribution of all the physi- cal necessaries of life among such a vast and mixed multitude would tax to the utmost the resources of any State organisation ! Subdivide and distribute the work how you will, surely it will be all but im- possible to guard against the risk of a breakdown at some point of the very complicated machinery ! Under the regime of private enterprise and competition (coai'se and cruel as some deem it), supply does somehow adjust itself roughly to demand. But the blunder of a State department would be of necessity irremediable. When the supplies of an army fall short there is free industry to fall back upon, and, when it is deemed necessary to ensure an army against shortness of supplies, free industry is permanently over-taxed. But a Com- munistically organised State would either have no such reserve, or would be compelled permanently to over- work its labourers in order that a reserve might exist. Secondly, the State, if Communistically organised, must of neces- sity control all labour, direct its quantity, test its quality, and compel its performance. Every man, woman, and child should have his or her daily task set and enforced. Under a regime of free industry and private enterprise, ' he that will not work neither shall he eat.' In countries like France, where there is no poor law, the cry of the Communistic agitator is not for maintenance while out of work, but for work to do whether the pi'oduce of his work is wanted or no. Our own poor law is a step in the direction of Communism (though not a very long one, and not wholly indefensible), and carries with it the Communist consequence that work for paupers must not only be provided but enforced. A Communistically organised State would be a collection of big workhouses. Those who aspire after such an ideal must have learned the lesson of the English workhouse very im- perfectly indeed. Otherwise they must needs know that there is a margin of the working class (as there is of all hvimanity) whose aim is to get through life doing the very smallest possible quantity of work. A considerable proportion of our workhouse population consists of tramps and ' casuals ' who are living upon the labour of others, they themselves producing nothing, and doing no more than they needs must in order that they may be fed at the cost of those who pi'oduce. And in this lowest deep there is a lower deep : the half criminal or wholly criminal fiinge, which actually prefei-s the gaol to the workhouse, and makes pi'ovision for a rainy day by breaking FEIDAY AFTERXOOX. 427 windows or street lamps. What room is there for people of this kind in a Collectivist State 1 Is it not self-evident that a man who will not work of his own accord must either be driven to work by the lash, or thrust out to starve on the roadside 1 And if either of these things has to be done, wherein lies the advantage of the new regime over the old 1 Thirdly, if the State is to be responsible for proportioning con- sumption to resources, the State must control the increase of the population. If the State is to provide food, and lodging, and clothing, it must have the power of deciding how many persons are to be fed, lodged, and clothed. This is a matter concerning which plain speak- ing is at once difficult and indispensable. Political economists write about restraints on marriage — as if no children were ever born out of wedlock. The truth is, that wherever restraints on marriage have been imposed, illicit unions and illegitimate bii'ths have inci'eased. In order to control population by State authority it would be neces- sary to bring things into the condition satuised by Shakespeare in Measure for Measure. The slaves on American plantations were encouraged to * breed,' because their oflfspring would sell at a profit. On the contrary, men and women in a State Communistically organised .... I will not complete the antithesis. In what way would the subjects of a Collectivist State differ from slaves except that they would not be directly subject to a master's caprices 1 And what manner of men would they be who should be entrusted with the organisation and control of the labour thus disciplined ? The ' captains of industry ' would have far more power than the officers of an army ; and what would be the check on them 1 We can hardly suppose them appointed by popular election. That pre- supposes freedom. We cannot imagine a plantation of slaves choosing the overseer by universal suffrage. The overseers of the slaves of Communism would have to be chosen by some process of selection other than a vote of the very men and women whom they would have to control, to keep at work, and to restrain from over-multiplying. Now, the first two of these functions are performed, roughly, indeed, and imperfectly, by the Capitalist Employer in a state of freedom. He it is who apportions the work to be done, and decides who shall do it. He it is who tvirns the lazy and inefficient workman into the street, and promotes the skilful and active labourer. The process by which the capitalist comes to the front is a process of natural selection, and is therefore more effective than any mode of artificial choice could be. — {Communism. By E. Stanley Robertson.) 428 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. Remedies for Social Distress. By Frederic Harrison. The third question before us submits to our judgment two methods proposed for the reorganisation of the industrial system : — the first, by the more general distribution of capital and of land ; the second, by the State management of capital and of land. These two plans are in violent contrast with each other. The former is merely an extension of the present social system, multiplying the holders of private property, imposing on private property no new checks or duties, proposing nothing subversive of our ordinary habits, and nothing but what is common in many countries in the Old and the New World. The second plan involves an entire revolution in the social system ; it would abolish, or at least recast, the oldest institu- tion of civilisation, private property ; and it proposes an indus- trial system which probably has never at any time been at work on any large scale on the face of the earth. But before we can properly consider any large scheme for the reorganisation of our industrial system, we must first be prepared with at least a general answer to the wider question, the question which is the raison d^etre of this Conference : viz. ' Does our industrial system need to be reorganised at all ? ' I shall simply indicate my own answer to this question, and shall then consider the two alternative proposals for reform ; giving in each case results, conclusions, and general estimates, the outcome of my own experiences and studies. I have now for twenty-five years occupied myself with these industrial pro- blems in their various phases, in personal contact with the movements and their leading exponents or directors : trades unions, workmen's clubs, benefit societies, co-operation, indus- trial partnerships, land nationalisation, socialism, communism. Time does not permit me to enter into details or systematic review of arguments. I shall seek only to lay before the Con- ference my final conclusions and suggestions. FEIDAY AFTEKNOON. 429 ' Does our industrial system need to be reorganised ? ' or in words which originated this Conference, 'Is the present manner whereby the products of industry are distributed satisfactory ? ^ I cannot myself understand how any one who knows what the present manner is, can think that it is satisfactory. To me at least it would be enough to condemn modern society as hardly an advance on slavery or serfdom, if the permanent condition of industry were to be that which we behold, that 90 per cent, of the actual producers of wealth have no home that they can call their own beyond the end of the week ; have no bit of soil, or so much as a room, that belongs to them ; have nothing of value of any kind, except as much old furniture as will go in a cart ; have the precarious chance of weekly wages, which barely suffice to keep them in health ; are housed for the most part in places that no man thinks fit for his horse ; are separated by so narrow a margin from destitution, that a month of bad trade, sickness, or unexpected loss, brings them face to face with hunger and pauperism. In cities, the increasing organisation of factory work makes life more and more crowded, and work more and more a monotonous routine ; in the country, the in- creasing pressure makes rural life continually less free, health- ful, and cheerful ; whilst the prizes and hopes of betterment are now reduced to a minimum. This is the normal state of the average workman in town or coimtry, to whicli we must add the record of preventable disease, accident, suffering, and social op- pression with its immense yearly roll of death and misery. But below this normal state of the average workman, there is found the great band of the destitute outcasts — the camp-followers of the army of industry — at least one-tenth of the whole proleta- rian population, whose normal condition is one of sickening- wretchedness. If this is to be the permanent arrangement of modern society, civilisation must be held to bring a curse on the great majority of mankind. Is the relative area of this extreme misery growing wider or smaller ? Is the normal state of the average workman growing better or worse ? Is the general lot of the upper ranks of the workmen rising or falling? Taking England and our own generation only, I have little doubt that there is some improve- 430 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. ment in all. The proportion of the utterly destitute is distinctly, however slowly, diminishing. The average workman, on the whole, has gained in money-values a real advance. The fortunate minority of the most highly-skilled workmen have gained very considerably. The figures arrayed by consummate economists are far too complete to be doubted. But then this question is by no means settled by figures. After all has been said as to the rise of wages, as to the fall of prices, as to the cheapening of bread and other necessaries, there comes in a series of ques- tions as to housing, as to permanence of employment, as to the general conditions of life in cities ever more crowded, and in country ever more and more inclosed, as to the nature of industry in the sum. These are questions that cannot be settled by statistics and comparative tables. It is impossible to balance a gain of 2d. on the quartern loaf against the growing un- healthiness and discomforts of an increasing city. No one can say if another \d. per hour in wages is the equivalent of increased strain in the industrial mill. No one can exactly value all the rush and squeeze of modern organised industry against the personal freedom of the old unorganised labour. These things one has to judge in the concrete, and my own judgment is this : the fortunate minority have gained, even in the sum total, at least as much as any other class in the community ; and they are in the ascendant, in the way to gain more, both positively and relatively. This is due mainly, I hold, to their trades unions and mutual societies. The average majority of workmen have, in the sum total, gained a little ; but far less than tlie rich or the middle-classes. And that little has been gained at the expense of some evils which are hardly compatible with civilisation. The destitute residuum is, if relatively diminishing, positively increasing in numbers ; and, under the pressure of modern organised life, is in a condition of appalling barbarism. Taking the general condition of the producers of wealth as a whole, it is improving, but somewhat slowly, and even the improvement is of so moderate a kind, and is accompanied with evils go menacing to society, that the future of civilisation itself is at stake. And herein I join hands with very much that is said by the earnest men of the FEIDAY AFTERNOON. 431 genuine Socialist schools, so far as they point out the evils and dangers of our actual system. In particular, I heartily sympathise with the critical portions of ]Mr. Henry Greorge's writings, especially in his latest work. Social Problems. That book seems to me a very powerful, and, in the main, a very just, exposure of the evils of our industrial system ; though I look on his pretended panacea as chimerical and futile. But Mr. George, whose genius and courage I cordially admire, has introduced one very important consideration. He has proved, or rather directed our attention to this, viz., that the evils long familiar to all in the industrial system of Europe are already in full operation in America and other new societies ; that they grow up with wonderful rapidity within a generation under conditions utterly different to those of Europe ; that they are found in primitive communities, in democratic republics, in societies where virgin soil, unbounded liberty, limitless space, social equality, and an absence of all traditions, restrictions, or hindrances whatever, leave an unorganised crowd of free men face to face with Nature. It is impossible, therefore, to attribute these evils to Government, social institutions, laws, or historical conditions. They are the direct growth of modern industrial habits ; and they develop with portentous rapidity directly industry finds a field wherein to organise itself, even in the most free and the most new of all modern societies. Mr. George, I say, has shown us that the evils of our industrial system are the direct product of the industrial system itself. This spectacle of the growth of free industry in America affords a sufficient answer to those who call out for absolute freedom from State interference. In the United States we have State interference at its minimum, and the freedom and independence of the individual citizen at its maximum. And this seems precisely the field where industry breeds the evils of the industrial system with the greatest rapidity. It is here, where the State does the least, and where the individual is most independent, that we have colossal accidents, gigantic frauds, organised plunder, systematic adulteration, the greatest insecurity of property and of person, and commerce fast re- ducing itself to a science of swindling. This should be enough 432 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. to warn us that it is impossible to make an absolute principle of the doctrine of non-interference. Where the State can usefully interfere, and where it cannot, is for each society a matter to be discovered by practical experiment. The sticklers for absolute respect for Liberty and Property have not the courage of their doctrines. If they are log'ical they should ask for the abolition of all legislation against truck, dangerous struc- tures or practices, unhealthy buildings, oppressive regulations, and fraudulent devices of any kind. They ought even to call for the abolition of all inspection, all compulsion, all monopolies, and all State manufactures, or even regulation of industry in any form. Cab-drivers would be free to charge the unwary what they pleased ; girls and boys would be ill-used in any way short of open violence. The population would grow up a prey to small-pox and all infectious diseases ; the children would be untaught ; salesmen would be free to falsify their weights and measures, and to adulterate their goods without check ; sailors would be drowned, pitmen blown to cinders, and trains wrecked entirely at the mercy of certain owners ; and we should have to forward our own letters, and (why not ?) protect our own houses ourselves. Society would be dissolved in the name of the sacred rights of self-help and property. The limits of age, sex, or special industry have no abstract force, apart from convenience. If it degrades a man to have State protection, it must degrade a woman ; if it is good for a young person of 14 to be under compulsion or inspection, it cannot be so evil for a young person of 18 or 20 to be so also. If there be any absolute doctrine of non-interference, the age of 12, 14, 17, or 21 cannot override it; nor does a factory girl of 16 differ so much from a factory lad of 16, or even of 21. Once show a few cases where State control has certainly made industrial life a little more human, and checked some forms of misery, and the al)stract doctrine of non-interference is blown to the winds. But cases of successful State control abound in all societies, and notably in ours. The rule of caveat emptor is perfectly observed only by savages. I turn to the first alternative proposal, the more general dis- tribution of capital and land. No one who knows the working- FRIDAY AFTERNOON. 433 man, so to speak, at home, can doubt how great an advance in well-being and independence is the possession of a little capital, a bit of land, however small. Only those who do know him at home can truly judge how great an advance it is. The workmen of such cities as Eochdale, Halifax, Huddersfield, Leeds, Newcastle, and Oldham, where the unions, the co-operative, building, and benefit societies are in strong force, are in an alto- gether different world from that of the average town and country labourer, who on a Friday night is the owner at most of a few shillings and five pounds worth of old fm-niture. The co-opera- tive societies, with their twenty-sis millions sterling of annual sales, are only one and the best known of the many agencies. The trades unions, with their large reserve funds, and their accident, sickness, and out-of-work benefits, are but another mode of securing to workmen some of the advantages of reserve capital. All the various forms of insurance and benefit societies, the land and building societies, do the same. The prudent, energetic workman of our northern in- dustrial districts, who can afford to take advantage of all the mutual benefit associations available to him, may be said to be in a position of something like security and comfort. If he is sick, out of work, or meets with an accident to himself or his tools, he is not forced to pawn his bedding ; when he is super- annuated, he is not driven to the poorhouse ; when he dies, he is not buried by the parish. He gets wholesome food, good clothing, and furniture at wholesale prices ; he has a good library and club, a night school, and an annual holiday ; and he comes to be master of a house and garden of his own. This is the bright side of the picture ; but of how few can it be said to be true ! Perhaps, at the most, of 5 per cent, of our total working population ; and of that 5 per cent, almost the whole are factory artisans, who alone, by their higher wages and the employment of whole families, can afford the needful weekly subscriptions. With the rural labourer the story is very different. How rare is the case where he owns anything, or has the remotest hope of ever owning anything ! Every ordinary misfortune of life — sickness, accident, infirmity, old age — to him means simply parochial relief, charity, the workhouse. He drinks poisonous water, eats F F 434 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. bad and adulterated food, lives a life without rational amuse- ment, without freedom, without hope. Compare the British labourer with the peasant owner of France, Italy, Belgium, Switzerland, or America, and he appears to be at the opposite pole of comfort and independence. It would be wasting time to multiply proofs that the more general distribution of capital and of land does promote the welfare of the labourer. Every means which contribute to that end are, in my judgment, an unmixed good, whether they take the form of co-operation, trades unions, benefit, building, insurance, or joint-stock societies, or peasant occupation and holdings. Na}', I go much farther, and I insist that until the working-man — whether in town or in country — has at least as much possessory interest in his home as an average middle-class man now has, and until he can count on so much capital, or its equivalent, as will keep him (if needs be) from destitution for a year at least, the first conditions of civilised industry are wanting. But the question before us is whether the reorganisation of industry and the welfare of the community are to be found in a general distribution of capital and land. And here we are met by two irresistible facts. The first is, that the universal ten- dency of organised industry, rural or urban, is towards the massing, and not the dispersion, of capital. The highly specialised subdivisions of all modern production, the increasing use of complex machinery, and the greater economy of all aggregate operations, make the massing of capital more and more essential to efficient production. In America and in new societies, even more than in the old, the same causes are at work. Increased concentration of capital is an indispensable condition of modern successful industry. Even in riu'al England, where the concentration of estates seems almost to have reached a maximum, the consolidation of farms goes on ; the big industry is driving out the little. The ancient controversies as to great and little culture of land have now ended in this : that for the largest production of cereals and stock and for the highest scientific farming the big-scale culture at least is indispensable, even if the ownership be subdivided. In urban industry no room is left even for debate. Collective industry has almost FKIDAY AFTERNOON. 435 extinguished individual industry. Factory production has swallowed up home production ; the spinning-wheel, the hand- loom, the village workshop, are now the bows and arrows of miodern industry. The middleman, the chapman, the small trader, the petty manufacturer, the private banker, the small builder, the village store, are every day superseded by big companies, central agencies, or big capitalists who are con- solidated companies and agencies in themselves. In the face of this universal law of modern industry, a law the more con- spicuous the more free and virgin be the field of industry, how idle would it be to look for any regeneration of the industrial systeni to a natural dispersion of capital or land ! In the teeth of universal tendencies such as these, it is rather unnatural to struggle for a revival of the equable distribution of capital and land which marks the ruder types of society. The second objection is a result of the first. As a fact, the possession of capital and of land is reached only by an insigni- ficant fraction of the labour population. After all has been allowed for the work done by trades unions, co-operation, benefit societies, and the like, it touches only a fortunate few. Even the most flourishing and progressive of these movements hardly advance more rapidly than population and the general wealth of the community : in other words, they barely hold their own. Trades unionism may now be said to be, as an efficient move- ment, about fifty years old ; co-operation is forty years old ; most of the mutual-benefit movements are in their second or third generation. It is time that the enthusiasts of each recognised the very narrow limit of their real work. They practically affect the fortunate minority alone. Ninety per cent, of the labour population scarcely feel any direct benefit from them. Co-operation, in particular, has a melancholy failure to acknowledge. Too much lias been made of the fact that a small fraction of the labouring classes (600,000 or 700,000 all told) have learned to buy their tea and sugar in economical ways at stores and clubs. There is n© social millennium in this. Co-operation started forty years ago with a mission, to revolutionise industry, to abolish the wages system, and to produce by associated labour, so that the labourer should F F 2 436 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. share in the profit of his labour. Over and over again the effort has been made to start true co-operative production, all workers sharing the profits. Over and over again it has failed. It has been a cruel disappointment to the noble-hearted men who forty years ago, and since, have hoped that they had found a new social machine, to see these hopes ruined by the in- domitable force of personal interest and the old Adam of industrial selfishness. One after another all types of co-opera- tive production worthy of the name have disappeared. Here and there a few associated artisans or artists struggle on in a small business where capital is hardly needed. In 1883 the united profits of all productive societies in the kingdom was less than 15,000^. This does not count the flour-mills, which are merely a form of store for the convenient supply of food. What a drop in the ocean of the total earnings of the working classes, 500,000,000^., is this annual profit of 15,000L! But co-operative employers usually, like other employers, give little but the market rate of wages, and secure the best dividends they can. Why should they not? they ask; for they are poor men, trying to rise. Why not indeed ? Only they make it plain that co-operation is simply a name for a joint-stock company; and the idea that it is about to re- organise modern industry is now an exploded day-dream.* Trades unionism, which I have known intimately for twenty-five years, is an even more important and efficient engine of industrial improvement, mainly because its indirect influence is at least as great as its direct influence. A trades union usually benefits indirectly quite as many non-members as members, sometimes perhaps twice as many. A powerful trades union often improves the condition of the whole trade. But, at the utmost, tradea unions substantially affect only the minority. Of the twelve millions of earners, certainly not one million are in union. In one or two of the most skilled trades, the unionists are the majority ; but, taking the whole labouring population ' In 18S3, the aggregate dividend paid by these productive societies in England was under 5,000^. About lOOZ. was devoted to educational and charitable purposes, and about twice as much to labour, apart from capital or purchases. FEIDAY AFTEENOON. 437 of these islands, the unionists are a mere fraction, the aristo- cracy of labour. Nor is this fraction now relatively growing. Trades unionism, in the sum, is not an advancing movement. In two generations now it has shown itself utterly powerless to reach the residuum, or even materially to combine the great average mass. In spite of all the creditable eflfortsmade by the larger unions, and by the annual congress and the like, unionism in its average, and certainly in its lower, types tends rather to sectional and class interests; it divides trade from trade, members from non-members ; and especially it accentuates that sinister gulf which separates the skilled and well-paid artisan from the unskilled labourer, and from the vast destitute resi- duum. Our industrial competition forces these classes into permanent antagonism. Unionism too often deepens this antagonism into bitter and imsocial war.' It is vain indeed to expect the permanent reorganisation of industry from any one of the movements which tend to the more general distribution of capital or land ; nor is there any reasonable probability that this will come about naturally. The steady logic of facts is towards the concentration of capital and not its distribution ; and all the movements for promoting that distribution but touch the topmost layers ; they scarcely affect the mass, and do nothing for the lowest state of destitu- tion. They leave the general organisation of the industrial system exactly as they find it. They do almost nothing to moralise it, to infuse into it a new spirit ; and they distinctly decline to revolutionise the industrial system itself. Trades unionism indeed, the best and by far the most powerful of these agencies, is a strongly conservative movement, and depends for its activity on the actual industrial system as it is. Compared with the gigantic and deep-seated evils of our present society, these various schemes for the general distribution of capital are mere palliatives, stop-gaps, and insignificant experiments. Nine-tenths of our working people, nine-tenths of their wages, are hardly affected by them at all. I turn to the various proposals for the State management of capital and land, that is to say, to the nationalisation of the soil, ' See the paper prepared by Mr. Lynch. 438 INDUSTKIAL REMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. and Communism pure and simple. There is nothing particu- larly new about the proposals of Mr. Henry George. In the last century, Thomas Spence, in Newcastle, proposed very similar theories, and the Spencean clubs of that period were quite as vigorous as the land nationalisation societies are now. Mr. George has, however, given the discussion a new interest by his eloquence, passion, and his experiences of the new societies across the Atlantic. I have already expressed my admiration of Mr. George's genius and energy. And I will add this : his dealing with the land question has drawn attention to some important truths, so valuable that if all the rest of his argu- ments were worthless, this would still make him one of the most vigorous social thinkers of our time. The greater part of his criticism of our present distribution of wealth is right in principle, even if exaggerated in statement. He has abun- dantly proved that it is not due to any special conditions of English society, law, or institutions. He has thrown fresh light on the danger of permitting to the owners of the soil in cities the absolute disposal of its surface and the buildings on it. And in particular he has done admirable service in insisting on the necessity for a genuine land tax. I am prepared myself to go with him so far as to see a iifth at least of our national in- come raised by a tax on land and ground-rents, as is usual in most other civilised communities. But all these proposals are part of the accepted programme of all radical reforms. And Mr. George has done nothing to put them into practical and work- able form. When, however, he goes on to represent the appropriation of the soil in private hands as the cause of all social misery, and the State confiscation of the soil as the panacea for every ill that afflicts society or the working poor, no wilder sophism was ever uttered by a sane man. I will not, in a serious gathering of cultivated men, waste a word on his invocations to the will of God or the rights of man. Kant of this kind is more fitting to a negro camp-meeting than to an industrial inquiry. I come at once to what I hold to be the central error of all land nationalisation theories whatever. It is assumed in all— FEIDAY AFTERNOON. 439 (1) That property in land is something different toto ccelo from any other kind of property. (2) That property in land represents a mere legal right, nothing of real value apart from its arbitrary and fictitious value. (3) That property in land retains its value without any act or expenditm'B on the part of the owner. (4) That there is some mysterious wickedness about owner- ship of the soil, some social mischief which is not at all shared in by mere permanent occupation of the soil. Every one of these assumptions is false. The appropriation of the soil rests on precisely the same grounds as any other appro- priation. If there is anything wicked and socially mischievous in private property in land, the same wickedness and mischief exist in any other private property. The former is the appropriation of an immovable and the latter of a movable ; but there the dis- tinction ends. There are things far more rare than the soil, and quite as essential to human life. The appropriation of all the salt in India, or of all the coal or wood in England, would create a monopoly far more formidable, and would sooner make the monopolist master of the community than any possible appropriation of the soil. Eaffaelle's pictures and ancient statues are far more rare than even the soil of these islands. And fuel, ships, or iron are quite as necessary to existence. If property becomes sin, when extended to things of which the supply is limited, the ownership of diamonds, coal, anti- quities, and ancient manuscripts must be even more unholy. To lay down a social law that no one shall own anything which is much wanted by others, would apply in turn to almost every subject of property. Food, building materials, horses, minerals, even books and newspapers, become in certain societies and under certain conditions, things of special desire, and suddenly enrich the fortunate owners. The unearned increment applies to everything in turn. The window of an attic which commands the view of some historical scene, the house in which Shake- speare lived and died, the Times newspaper with the account of the battle of Waterloo, suddenly become a fortune in the hands of some lucky owner. It is as much or as little criminal to own them as to own a bit of soil. If rarity and a general 440 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. / desire to possess them make things incapable of appropriation^ the rule should apply to thousands of things besides land. Immense nonsense is afloat respecting ' the unearned incre- ment.' The unearned increment is the result of civilised society which gives special value to various things, quite apart from any act of their possessors. In a besieged city, the fortunate holders of food, in a war, the possessors of ships, saltpetre, guns, and tie like, suddenly find that their property lias ' an unearned incre- ment.' The buyers of the first edition of the Modern Painters, Turner's Liber Studiorum, or Tennyson's poems, are in the same case. Those who have bought a piece of land in a spot where a town begins to rise are in precisely the same position. It may be quite right for the State to prevent the possessors of the soil from hindering the free development of the town. But why should the State confiscate the ' unearned increment ' of the piece of ground, and not the ' unearned increment' of the book, the grain, or the saltpetre ? Nor is it true that land is a positively limited thing. There are still boundless tracts on the earth's surface not actually occupied. Land is in no sense so limited as wood, iron, coal, salt, not to speak of Grreek statues and illuminated manuscripts. And in each country, even in ours, the quantity of cultivated and useful land is a constantly fluctuating amount. The land in practical occupation is now probably one-fifth more than it was fifty years ago ; and perhaps one-twentieth less than it was ten years ago. The land of any country in actual occu- pation varies from year to year very largely, far more than iron, coal, wood, or old books and pictures vary in amount. At this hour, there are millions of acres of the soil of these islands which are perfectly at the service of Mr. G-eorge and his friends, at a rental of Is. an acre, if he likes to lease them, and to convert them into good farms. It is untrue that the soil even of this island is all allotted out and closed for ever. There are millions of acres still to be had which might be made perfectly service- able to man at an outlay of so mucli per acre. What is lacking is the capital or the labour willing to convert them. For practical men well know that to convert these waste lands into farms would involve a ruinous loss. It would not pay one per FRIDAY AFTERNOON. 441 cent. Why, then, should the ' State ' be required to make an outlay which is certain to prove a ruinous loss ? This brings us to the point that property in the soil repre- sents not a bare legal right to exclude others, but the actual expenditure of capital and labour. The underlying fallacy of Mr. George is to think that land is a thing like the sea, and raising produce from it is a simple process, like catching fish. There are exceptional cases and extreme limits. But an ordinary farm is as much artificial as a house or a factory. Good farm land in England is the work of enormous outlay and labour. In its primitive condition it was moor, swamp, thicket, or sandy wilderness. Perhaps not a twentieth part of this island in its original state (Mr, George would say as God made it) was of any use at all to man. There is hardly an acre of cultivated land in England which has not been made cultivable by a great outlay of labour and capital. It has really been as much built up as a railway or a dock. Immense tracts of fine farm land have been in this very century slowly won from a state of barren wilderness, by continuous labour and the enormous expenditure of capital. The whole of the corn lands recently gained from the open down and moor, forming large parts of eight or ten southern and south-western counties, the vast and fertile regions in Lincolnshire, Cambridgeshire, and other North-Eastern counties, redeemed from saltmarsh, fen, and swamp, have been made quite as completely by human industry as a ship or a steam-engine. It is idle to repeat sophistical platitudes that God made the earth, but man made the ship or the engine. The ship and the engine are merely materials found on and in the earth, worked into useful forms, and arranged by human industry to serve man's wants. So is a farm. No farm in England is in the state in which it is supposed that God left it at the creation of the earth. It has been worked up and re- arranged by human labour extending over centuries. The farm is also, like the ship or the engine, a mass of the earth's materials so changed and placed that it can grow food. Apart from that labour, an acre, say, in the Bedford Level, or on the Wiltshire Downs, would be as perfectly worthless as an acre on 442 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. the top of Snowdon or on the Groodwin Sands. It is certainly immovable, whilst an engine or a ship, under conditions, and with great expense and labour, is movable. But this is a mere incident. A ship stranded is also immovable ; and so is an engine, in the absence of capital to move it. Hence we find that large portions of the soil of England have every quality possessed by other purely personal property, which Mr. George does not propose to touch. Even he would be scandalised at a proposal to confiscate the ships and engines built and owned by private persons, on the ground that their material was simply a portion of the earth's soil, which no man has a right to appropriate. Society judges it wise to guarantee property in ships and engines to those whose capital has procured them to be built, in order to encourage citizens to employ their savings in a way useful to the community. On precisely the same grounds it guarantees property in the Bedford Level to those whose capital has procured it to be made. The Bedford Level is no doubt an extreme case. But it is only a matter of degree. Hundreds of thousands of acres in England have been made by human toil, skill, and capital, quite as com- pletely as the Bedford Level was made out of tidal swamps. To a very great degree every cultivated acre in England has also been so made. Clearing of timber and brushwood, of stones, weeds, and other growths, draining, fencing, damming, bridging, making roads, barns, farmsteads and the like, ponds, wells, watercourses, and the hundreds of works without which the land could not bear produce — these costly operations were necessary for every farm alike. If the people, by God's law, have a right to God's earth, they can only have a right to that earth in the state in which God created it. Let us assume that Mr. George is right, and that we agree to hand back the soil to the people. It would be grossly unjust to hand it back to them in any other state than a state of nature. Assume that we could replace it in that state, in the state, say, in which Julius Cffisar saw it when he came over from Gaul. This island then consisted of pathless tracts of jungle, feu, moor, wood, and heath. The valleys of the great rivers were periodically under water ; the estuaries on the FKIDAY AFTEENOON. 443 coast were boundless salt fens ; the uplands were sandy or stony wildernesses ; there were only two or three varieties of tree ; four or five very common herbs ; and about as many coarse wild fruits. It would be impossible for any but hunters and coracle boatmen to get about the country ; there would be hardly any food for man or cattle ; neither man nor beast could live anywhere except on patches here and there, mostly in aquatic villages or on detached and stony hills. At the utmost, one- twentieth of the soil could be used for human produce, and that only in the rudest way for a few necessaries. Nineteen-twentieths of the soil would be as absolutely useless for human food as Dartmoor and the Wash are now. That is the condition in which God gave the soil of England to the people of England ; and that is the condition in which they should, by Grod's law, receive it back. To seize it, after centuries and centuries of labour have been, by man's law, expended in utterly changing its very face and na- ture, would be monstrously unjust. We have lately by legislation remedied what most of us hold to be a cruel injustice in Ireland, where the labour which A had put into the soil was confiscated by B. In Ireland, the mountain-side and the bog had often been won into cultivation and usefulness by the incessant labour of some tenant, or perhaps squatter or bare occupant. Mr. George has justly inveighed against the outrageous in- justice done, when the farm so reclaimed by the labour and capital of the peasant was claimed, plus its improvements, by the mere owner of the soil. We heartily agree with him. On what ground ? Because we tind it unjust that the men who may fairly claim the soil should plunder, along with the soil, the visible result of another's labour and capital. In England it is not the occupant but the owner, or those whom the owner represents, who have expended on the soil that labour which alone has made it useful to man. Mr. George, therefore, is going to do in England exactly what he and we find so monstrous in Ireland. Granted that the soil of England belongs to the people of England. Then he is calling on the people of England not only to seize the soil, but to confiscate the enormous wealth representing the outlay by which the soil has been transformed. He is going on a colossal scale to repeat 444 INDUSTEIAL KEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. the injustice which in a very minor form we have just redressed by legislation. Some schools of land nationalisation propose what they call compensation on this confiscation. What they propose is, how- ever, no compensation at all. It is not, and never can be, any kind of equivalent for the capital expended. The strict prairie value of agricultural land in England would hardly amount to one year's rent. The improved value, representing capital expended in making the prairie cultivable, would usually ex- ceed twenty years' rent. It may be doubted if 2,000,000,000^. would go any way in making the soil of England what it is to-day, supposing that it were in the state in which Julius Csesar, or even William the Conqueror, found it. The idea that the owners of the soil simply represent a parchment-right granted ages ago by some sovereign or paramount authority is almost too ridiculous to discuss. There is perhaps not a single enclosed and cultivated acre in England on which human labour has not been expended and paid for far in excess of many years' rent ; it would be easy to show that in some spots forty, fifty, even a hundred years' rental would not cover the loss and outlay sunk in making it fertile. We ought to calculate, not merely the bare clearing, draining, and inclosing the particular farm, but the whole of the permanent works needed to make any given district cultivable as it now is — the vast and ancient operations of dyking rivers, estuaries, and watercourses, the road-making, bridge-making, and planting, the sum of those labours which make an English county so utterly unlike the same soil in the days of the Heptarchy^ It is as great a difference as that between a frockcoat and a sheep's fleece. Mr. George might as well claim the coats off our backs, on the ground that God made the sheep, as the farms which have been made by human capital and skill. It is idle to seek now to unravel all the titles to every plot ' The works hore spoken of are all the beneficial constructions for the permanent improvement of the soil, made at the cost of successive owners of the land. It does not include high roads, bridges, or other works paid for by the parish, the county, or any public body. Everyone knows that in every large property there are occupation roads, bridges, dykes, and other works necessarily paid for by the proprietor. FEIDAY AFTERNOON. 445 in England. The notion thab the soil of England is held to-day under grants made by Xorman and Tudor kings is obviously childish. It would be easy to show that an immense proportion of it is now held by the assigns of those who paid hard money or money's worth for it. Somebody gave or paid for the labour ; and it would be as idle to trace back the heirs of the original labourers as it would be to find the men who made our coats, or the heirs of the bricklayers who laid the walls of our houses. In civilised society the legal ownership of an article is assumed to represent the value given for the labour expended on it. If every man were liable to have his coat confiscated off his back, unless he could show that he had paid his tailor, that the tailor had paid the clothier, that the clothier had paid the farmer, that the farmer had paid the sliepherd, and so on ad infinitum, civilised society would cease to exist. There is no more reason in land than in anything else for calling on the legal owner to show that he has personally paid the value expended in makino- the article, be the article coat or farm. As a matter of fact, a very large part of the soil of England has been acquired for value given within recent generations. Even the estates of our peers, whose Norman names excite Mr. George's democratic sensi- bilities, have usually been acquired, directly or indirectly, through purchases by capitalists or marriage with the children of capitalists. It was amusing to read Mr. Greorge's denunciations of the London estate of the Duke of Westminster, which he told us was a grant from a Norman king. Everybody knows that it comes by inheritance from a worthy yeoman, who farmed his own estate, and left it in due course to his grandchild. The grandchild's descendant about a hundred years ago obtained a title. But the right of the Duke to the soil is precisely the same as Mr. George's right to anything which was left to him by his grandfather. There are no Norman kings in America and no land-laws made by an aristocracy. And yet precisely the same evils of land monopoly exist there, we are told, and the same policy of confiscation is recommended. Who are the people of England to whom God gave the soil ? Are they the de- scendants of the aborigines, of the first occupants, of the Britons Saxons, or the medieeval yeomen ? Have not the Welsh, the 446 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. men of Cornwall, the Highlands, and the West of Ireland the best title to the soil of their ancestors ? And in America God certainly gave the soil to the red-skin ; and by the law of divine justice one would think that New York, Boston, and Chicago should be restored to the remnant still left in the Indian reserves. Absurd panaceas can only be properly exposed by pointing out the absurd consequences which logically they involve. Not only does the owner of a farm represent those who have expended capital in creating it, but the farm would soon cease to exist if the owner did not continue to expend capital in keeping it going. Next to the fallacy that the landlord has done nothing to make the land, comes the fallacy that he does nothing to maintain it. An ordinary estate requires periodical expenditure, amounting at the lowest to 10 per cent, of the rental, and which is often twice, thrice, or four times as much. Official reports from one of the great estates in the kingdom show that in sixteen years nearly three-quarters of a million sterling has been expended. Of late years much of this outlay has been incurred along with a reduction of rents. It may well be that much of this expenditure is in permanent improvements which will ultimately represent increased value. But in England an immense proportion of this ex- penditure has nothing to do with profit or speculation. It is voluntarily made by the duty or pride of ownership, just as parks and gardens are kept up without any view to profit. Farmhouses, farm buildings, cottages, schools, churches, clear- ings, plantations and model farms are placed on the soil by rich landlords out of their capital. The country gains largely by this ; and the reason that so many parts of England are culti- vated like gardens or home farms is that the owners, having immense capital from resources other than agricultural rents, are able to indulge their pride or their sense of duty by expend- ing enormous sums in improving and beautifying their estates. One landlord in 16 years spent in farms, cottages, &c., 290,000Z. Another, in 3 years, 60,000?. Another, in 17 years, 3O,000L (rental reduced). Another has, in 10 years, received 50,000?., out of which he spent on the laud 43,000?. without increased FKIDAY AFTERNOON. 447 rental. These improvements are all in country estates, and in different counties/ Instead of the great peers carrying off the rentals of their farms to be consumed in extravagance, the farms are often kept in their present high condition because vast sums acquired elsewhere are poured into them. I am certainly not prepared to utter one word in defence either of our landed sys- tem or of our concentration of land in a few hands, least of all in defence of the unsocial extravagance of the rich. But on the whole I believe that great landlords in England administer their estates with more sense of public duty than bankers or merchants employ their capital. On the whole I estimate that an annual sum of at least ten millions is needed to keep our agricultural land at a high level of condition, in building, draining, fencing, clearing, planting, in roads, dykes, watercourses, bridges, and so forth. In a country changing so rapidly as ours, and with daily advances in scientific farming, this outlay is required to keep abreast of the general progress. Were this not expended the fer- tility of the land would rapidly deteriorate and ultimately cease altogether. Any large tract of ordinary country left to itself for a generation would return to a state of nature, and in two or three generations it would be as uncultivable and as uninhabitable as the moor or the fen of our ancestors. An ordinary estate requires a continual expenditure of capital to keep it going, just as a ship, or a railway, or a cotton- mill. The sole justification of ownership of the soil is that this is done by the owner. In England it is done by the ' These cases have been given to me privately, and in each case with exact figures supplied from the agent's office. They belong to a large class of English properties which are owned by men of great wealth and managed on liberal principles, without any idea of exacting the maximum rental. They are not at all the strongest cases to be found. The entire rental of some large estates is expended on the property. I know myself of two properties owned by millionaires, one of 13,000Z., the other 4,000Z. a year, from which for years past no income has been taken off the land. I cite these cases not to claim any merit for the owners, nor as a defence of the landlord system, but to prove a plain economic fact, viz., that a large proportion of the estates in England are managed without any reference to pecuniary profit, and that immense sums are, as a fact, annually spent in improving the land by the owners. The question whence that money comes is a perfectly distinct issue. 448 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. owner, and, on the whole, done well. It is well done mainly because the soil of Eng-land is owned by men, very many of whom are rich apart from their rentals from farms. If an annual outlay of ten millions be taken (for illustration) as the amount required to keep our agricultural land in a high state of productiveness, I shall assume that no less than fifteen mil- lions are annually expended on it now, if we include every kind of outlay — churches, schools, cottages, model farms, houses, gardens, plantations, of every kind : in face, all that is not ac- complished by public taxation. Where is this ten or fifteen millions annually to come from if the State confiscates the soil ? To throw it on the occupant or farmer is to overburden him, already unable as he is to stock or work his farm from want of capital. He will have, as now, to pay his rent or land tax to the State. Otherwise the State will derive no benefit from confiscation, and will simply make a present of the land to the farmers. But if the farmer, besides pay- ing his rent, is to find the annual outlay for repairs and improve- ments, none but capitalists, or the nominees of capitalists, will be able to farm. Hence, the ten or fifteen millions must come either from the State or from land banks. If from the State, then a large slice of the State's new land tax will be cut off. And what a prospect of State intervention, jobbery, and mis- management is unfolded by a scheme which puts every farm under the direct management of the State ; which substitutes for all the land agents and landlords in England a huge depart- ment at Whitehall which would have to give an order before any gate, barn, or ditch in the kingdom could be repaired. It has been suggested that the difficulty is met by leasing the State land at a lower rate. This does not meet the case. In the first place, the State will have to see that the sums re- quired for improvements are actually expended. That would involve minute and constant inspection, followed by eviction in case of default. What an endless source of discontent such a system involves ! Again, a large part of the expenditure now made by great landlords is far in excess of what a public de- partment could or would exact from farmers with small capital. Yet if that expenditure is sacrificed the country, at any rate FRIDAY AFTERNOON. 449 the land, would be the loser. Lastly, a large, irregular, and occasional expenditure, which is easily borne by a gi'eat capi- talist, is not so readily met by a farmer without capital. A farmer, now pa3ring 200^. a year rental, needs, we may suppose, a new house, buildings, and appurtenances, to cost 2,000^. A landlord easily finds that sum. It is a very different thing to call on the farmer to find it, even if his rent be reduced from 200/. to lOOl. per annum. The seamen who navigate an ocean steamer could not find the capital to work it, even if their wages were 500/. a year. Suppose, on the other hand, that the State declines so gigantic and so unpopular a task, and that the ten or fifteen millions are found by financial corporations — land banks of some kind. That is to institute a vast system of mortgage over the face of our country. Mortgages are bad enough when created by a landlord ; they are far more ruinous when the farmer or peasant is indebted. The State would be the mere over-lord, receiving the true rent under the name of land tax, as in India or Egypt; and the cultivator — call him peasant, farmer, or lessee — would be the bond-slave of some money- dealer, who would be his mortgagee and practical master. The place of landlord would be taken by some banking company in London. This is what happens always where the cultivator is without capital, and yet where he has himself to find the sums periodically needed to keep his land in condition. This is why the Egyptian fellah, the Indian ryot, the peasant in Russia and Eastern Europe generally, is the bond-slave of the money- lender. Even in France, Belgium, or America, where the peasant has unusual qualities of industry and thrift, the poorer class of farmers are bowed down by mortgages and loans. How could it be otherwise ? No magic will get rid of the need for con&tant outlay to keep the land in condition ; nor will any magic supply the small farmer — call him what you will with the capital needed. At present he can hardly buy his stock and manure. How is he to find, then, ten or fifteen millions more, if we abolish the landowner, who now finds this sum ? He can only find it by borrowing ; and the lender will be more or less master of him and of his land. G G 450 INDUSTEIAL KEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. Suppose that, by a short Act of Parliament, the payment of rent were abolished, within a generation the present farmers, who, as a rule, have neither large capital, nor the habit of ac- cumulating a large capital, would be deeply in debt for the sums required to renew buildings and develop cultivation. Where there is need for continual outlay of capital, borrowing is the only means by which a class without capital can meet that out- lay, however easy be the terms on which the holders may get the land. The land question is a question of capital. No legislation can create capital where it does not exist, and where the habit of accumulating does not exist. But the nationalisa- tion scheme does not pretend to abolish rent. It only converts rent into land-tax ; that is, it changes the persons to whom rent is payable. The landowner system is a device for getting capital on to the land. If we abolish the landowner, then, as the farmer has not adequate capital, it must come either from the State or from lenders. The English schools of land nationalisation usually proclaim as their aim the formation of a number of small farms leased from the State, with fixity of tenure — in fact, the legislative creation of a system of permanent peasant occupation. There are great social advantages in peasant proprietorship, and in any system where the actual cultivator is in free possession of the soil he tills. I am wholly convinced that to occupying owner- ship, without legal limitation on the extent of the holding, we must ultimately come. But the questions before us are these : First, can we create such a system at a stroke by legislative compulsion ? Secondly, in order to do so, need we start with such a tremendous revolution as abolishing property in land ? Thirdly, when we had done it, would the advantages (apart from the dangers and evils) be at all commensurate ? To these three questions I answer. No ! If every rural labourer in England were suddenly by law declared the absolute owner of ten acres, other conditions re- maining unchanged, within a few years the productiveness of the soil would be reduced by one half, and in a few generations large properties would be again the rule, and the bulk of the labourers would be in a state of dependence. It is impossible. FRIDAY AFTERNOON. 451 in a country like ours, to force society back into the primitive simplicity of Switzerland and Norway, even if it were desirable. It is useless to make peasant proprietors or independent farmers by law, until both have the habits and the capital needed to work such farms or holdings to a profit. Then, when we had ' planted our people on the land,' we should at most have provided for one million of earners out of our twelve millions of earners, for if the holdings were too small, production would be arrested. How should we have improved the condition of the other eleven millions of earners ? To hope that we should have abolished wages, even in agriculture, is an illusion. There is not a country in the world where the wage-receivers do not exceed the pro- prietors tilling their own land. And in a system of peasant ownership the wage-receivers are often worse off than elsewhere. If our soil is to be well cultivated, the lots — call them farms, properties, or holdings — could not, at the outside, exceed a million, and would probably be quite small enough if they amounted to half or a quarter of a million. If these lots are to be well tilled, some one must have full control over each, call him peasant, farmer, owner, lessee, or occupant. Unless such occu- pant has permanent tenure, with full power to transmit to his assigns and successors, he will not put capital into the land Unless he has capital of his own he must borrow it. When he is a systematic borrower he will cease to be a free pro- prietor. And when financial rings hold under mortgages the soil of England, we shall simply have established for the landlords whom we see, and who (in England) live on their estates and usually take some pride in them, invisible money- dealers living in distant cities. What is there in all this to transform industry, reorganise our social system, and offer a millennium to the thirty-five millions of these islands ? Our English schools of land nationalisation adopt the principle merely in name. Mr. Greorge proposes a genuine Communism, so far as land is concerned. If his scheme is to have the grand social results which he claims he must abolish all property in the soil as an institution. It is, according to him, from the sinful institution whereby plots of Grod's earth are nefariously allotted to private persons in full control that 452 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. poverty, bad trade, rotten finance, injustice, fraud, and even prostitution, spring. But the practical result of our English land nationalisation movement is, not to abolish, but greatly to strengthen this malignant institution, the appropriation of the soil. The English schools seek to make many more persons the virtual masters of the soil. Nationalisation, in their mouths, is reduced to a phrase. The State is to be declared sole proprietor. Well, that is nothing ; such is now the law of the land, a law acted on daily, when land is taken under the compulsory powers of a thousand Acts of Parliament. But names apart, the new allottees of the farms or plots will be quite as much proprietors, in the anti-social sense of the term, as the Norman barons who now own them. Unless the allottees have permanent occupa- tion, with fixity of teniu'e, and freedom to transfer, charge, and devise them, the land cannot be properly worked. Some persons or other, by a law of nature, physical nature and human nature alike, must have full control over the soil, unless it is to waste and go to ruin as land does in Turkey or Persia. But permanent occupation, with fixity of tenure and freedom of assignment, is proprietorship in other words. It will exercise over society all the same effects. The new allottees will accumulate estates, and in a few generations will be just as selfish, tyrannical, and indolent as the Norman barons. They will be just as much the enemies of the human race. Why not ? We shall have changed the persons of the proprietors ; but how shall we have changed the proprietor nature ? In- stead of Lord Wolverton, a London banker, or Lord Ardilaun, a Dublin brewer, who care little for the rentals of farms, we should have got a dozen small capitalists who had saved money in iron, and a dozen more who had prospered in coal, butter, or mutton, and wlio are not likely to be easier landlords.' ' In Professor Newman's paper, ' written on behalf of the Land Nationalisa- tion Society,' he says : — ' The aim of our society is to establish a state of things in which small independent plots of land shall be procurable everywhere.' As the aim to be reached, he speaks of farms 'being multiplied tlnough peasant freeholds.' Now to maintain such a system in England, even if it could be created by law, two things are absolutely necessary — (1) limitation by law of the size of holdings, (2) jjroliibition against sub-letting. I'oth of these con- ditions are impossible. To attempt them would lead to an unendurable tyranny. FRIDAY AFTERNOON 453 In what I have said I do not by one word accept the actual land system as satisfactory, or our present social condition as tolerable. I am as eager as any Socialist to transform our landlordism as a permanent institution and to find a higher standard for our general industrial life. I see certain great advantages, chiefly economical and material, in our present system of landed estates ; but I am very far from believing that these counterbalance its grave social evils. But these are to be dealt with, I hold, by the class of measures long advocated by all schools of radical land reformers. I am as anxious as any man to see a large body of peasant holdings freely springing up on our land. I look for a large body of working farmers, with permanent interest and complete freedom in their own farms. And I see social and moral evils of the worst kind in any system which practically severs (as ours does) the ownership of the soil from any responsibility to superintend its cultivation. That is to say, there are grave evils to society where estates in the mass are simply leased or loaned for hire like money. These evils, however, can be remedied by a reform of the land laws, by abolishing all the legal and social privileges peculiar to the ownership of land, and by a resolute scheme of land taxation. Under such a system of reform it would simply not pay to be the nominal owner of a great estate. A great estate would become a mere burden, and not a very honourable one, except where a man of vast wealth might choose to devote a large part of it to the public service, by keeping up an estate without profit. How- ever, after all the changes, I am not sure that the tillers of the soil will be, in material conditions, quite as well off as many are now who hold under the great Bedford, Devonshire, Port- land, Buccleuch, and Northumberland estates. But, on the whole, the social objections to the maintenance of an indebted, idle, and exclusive squirearchy are so serious, that we should by every legal obstacle limit the formation of a landlord class whose social function is sport, and whose economic func- tion is to spend what rent remains after keeping the estate in productive efficiency. Economically speaking, there is some social justification for dukes and millionaires as landlords, for they sometimes put almost as much on to the 454 INDUSTRIAL REMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. land as they draw oft, and they offer types of high agricultural efficiency. It is the squireen, with one or two thousand acres, with no capital, no occupation, and few useful faculties, who is without any raison d'etre ; being, like his own cherished fox, a survival of the unfittest in modern civilisation. In what I have said I strictly limit myself to England, and to rural estates. If the system cannot be applied to English farms it fails altogether. The social and economical conditions of the greater part of Ireland, and even of Scotland, are so very different ; the social justification of the landlord there is so much less even when it exists at all, that very different reasoning applies to the ill -managed territories of so many Irish and Scotch absentee landlords. I also have been speaking ex- clusively of the soil in country, not in cities. I am quite prepared to see the State, through local authorities, assert in towns a permanent right to control the disposition of the soil in such ways as experience shall prove to be most iiseful to the public. Abstract rights of property should no more be an obstacle to laying out our cities as health and convenience sug- gest, than they are now in making a railway through an estate. What we want are a set of Lands Clauses Acts applying to any soil in towns, and vesting control over it in proper local authorities. And we shall want very stringent provisions to check owners from doing anything contrary to public interests, or from receiving fanciful compensation for their own laches and obstruction. Even then we ought to see more wisdom and honesty in local authorities before we can confidently entrust to them the work now done for the most part by great landowners. The municipalities of Paris, New York, San Francisco, or Mel- bourne are not model trustees of public interests ; some think that even the Corporation of London and the INIetropolitan Board of Works are far from all that is wanted. Is it quite certain that either of them would abolish misery and unhealthy dwellings the moment we had handed over to them the control of the Bedford, Salisbury, Portland, Portman, Grosvenor, and Cadogan estates ? We may take it at least as certain that in the management of these neither fraud nor oppression is directly charged against FEIDAY AFTERNOON. 455 the noble owners, other than such fraud and oppression as Mr. George finds in the act of owning land at all. To a citizen of Paris, New York, or San Francisco, accustomed to associate municipal government with bribery, rings, corners, and public plunder, such a state of things would appear an impossible Utopia. Everyone who knows London can see how unfounded and even ludicrous are invectives against the peers who own considerable districts in our city. Large as these estates are, they do not account for a quarter of the area or the population. So far from these being the districts where suffering is greatest, they are altogether those in which it is least. The central, ■eastern, northern, and southern districts of London, where tlie dukes do not own a house, are those where the misery and overcrowding are the worst. Misery and overcrowding as great, if not greater, are found in Paris, Berlin, Naples, Lyons, Kouen, New York, and Mel- bourne, where there are no Norman barons, no dukes owning whole quarters. Everybody knows that Mr. George's famous gates near Euston Square were set up for the convenience, not of the duke, but of the inhabitants of the quarter. They are doubtless a public nuisance, but if the soil belonged to the parish we might have a dozen more set up. This is a specimen of the rhetoric to which Mr. George treats us. Happily our English reformers do not adopt this outlandish style of reform. I am certainly no friend of landlordism as an institution, or of aristocratic social traditions ; I am for radical land reform both in town and country : but justice forces me to say, that amongst our great landowners, both in town and country, are to be found those men who, of all the rich and powerful in England, I will say of all the rich and powerful in Europe, administer their estates with the greatest sense of social duty and responsi- bility to public opinion. And when we have got rid of them, we shall have got rid of much that it will take us a long time to replace. On the whole, whilst we must thank the Land Nationalisa- tion movement for directing attention to many important truths, and whilst we may heartily go along with the spirit which inspires it, we cannot accept the chimerical hopes and the 456 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. blind leap in the dark which it offers us as a remedy for all indus- trial evils. We should sacrifice for a mere dream all the solid results won by radical reform and practical experiments ; for it would plunge us into a social revolution which might last for generations. The talk about 'planting the English people on the soil' is surely mere words. However successful the plan, it could only plant about one in ten of our families on the soil. The twenty-six millions of Englishmen cannot all be planted on the soil ; they are not Swiss or Norwegian woodcutters, nor are they all desirous of retiring to the country on a competence. And when they were planted on the soil, how would they live and earn a living if they have neither capital nor skill to work it ? We might as well talk of planting the English people in the shops, or warehouses, or offices of England. What would thev do when they got into the offices and shops without capital or business habits ? A tailor presented with a cottage and ten acres would starve as quickly as a farmer would starve if presented with a lawyer's business as a going concern. There are now thousands of farms ' on hand ' because, rent or no rent, there is no one with capital and skill who cares to take them. Of the State management of capital, i.e. of simple Com- munism, I say little now. We have not before us a definite statement of the views propounded by any systematic school of Communism. There are several organised bodies putting for- ward proposals of a more or less Communistic character; and within our generation we have seen sseveral Socialist movements of a more or less systematic kind. In what I say now I speak of no body in particular. I shall deal with the Socialist and Communist language which is to be heard nowadays in several quarters, both within and without the publicly-constituted bodies. There is not a little floating Socialism current around us. I neither fear nor despise Communism. I am anything but opposed to its motive spirit or its aspirations. I honour its generous instincts, and I sympathise with much in its social aims ; for undoubtedly some of the noblest characters of our day are in sympathy with them, and it counts in its ranks men of heroic devotion to a social ideal. Nor need we undervalue its forces and the future destiny before it. On the continent FEIDAY AFTEENOON. 457 of Europe it is already one of the mighty factors of social evolution. We shall have it here, I doubt not ; though hardly in any form that is yet presented to us. But in what form, in what system, with what doctrines, is Communism pre- sented to Englishmen to-day ? The Communism which alone has ever had a serious following — the Communism of Owen, Fourier, Saint Simon, Lassalle, and Karl Marx — had a social system of some kind, a hody of logical doctrines, and an ideal of human society, however vague and extravagant. But the Socialism in many quarters now preached amongst us has none of these — neither economical theory, nor social scheme, nor system of life of any kind. It offers nothing but invectives against the rich, fancy figures for its statistics, and appeals to the poor to begin a social insurrection. It has no economic, social, or political doctrines. It propounds no intelligible religious principle — no scheme of morality, of government, of institutions, of education, of domestic, industrial, or civic life. Now no real insurrection was ever made by pure anarchists. The people must have something to believe in, to hope for, and work for, before they will seriously rise. Incitements to plunder and to destroy do not touch the people, who need some great moral cause and some ideal in view to stir them profoundly. But Communism, as presented in England, offers no moral cause, no ideal. It has never faced, and has nothing to say about any one of the great social problems, about religion, morality, edu- cation, government, public or domestic duty. It is not Com- munism : it is mere Nihilism. Communism implies the syste- matic organisation of life on the principle of community and not of individualism. This Nihilism, which pretends to be Communism, simply proposes the confiscation of property. How the capital so confiscated is to be worked — under what moral code, by what institutions, and for what social aim — on this it has nothing to say. How can it have ? The small knots of propagandists whom we find here and there — some of them in organised societies, some in the press, the pulpit, or on platforms — seem to have no agreement about these things. Some are ministers of the Grospel ; some profess materialism pure and simple ; others belong to every intermediate phase of opinion. 458 INDUSTKIAIi REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. Their views about morality, education, government, and society are equally various. Now, although an economist is not bound, as such, to have any moral, religious, or educational programme, a Communist is bound ; for if people are to work in common they must be trained in common. Every serious Socialist or Communist school has provided for this. The interesting part about true Communism is that it so fully realises the impossibility of production on a Communistic basis without a complete set of institutions to mould life generally on a corresponding basis. All true Communists have seen that it is impossible to found a Communistic mode of industry without destroying private life. Hence they begin by attempting to found a set of social, family, and religious institutions to eradicate all traces of individualism. If they do not do this they know that Communism in labour is impossible. But the various groups who in England to-day advocate some vague Communistic proposals do none of these things. They may denounce our social sores, they may call every man who does not agree with them mere bourgeois (to these young gentlemen even trades-unionists and co-operators are all bourgeois — the real English workman does not even know the word bourgeois) ; but, in the absence of any social scheme, they will not penetrate tlie body of English workmen. Communism in a systematic form is, perhaps, not advocated amongst us. But Communistic proposals and Socialist schemes have little meaning unless they can be placed on a logical footing. The only Communism which is worth serious notice is that complete Communism which seeks to transform all private property into Collectivism, or common property. It would be strange if English workmen, who have laboured so long and sacrificed so much in order to share with their fellows some of that security and independence which the legitimate use of property gives, and who have organised patiently such powerful agencies foi* checking the abuses of property, were suddenly to declare for universal confiscation in the blind chance that something might come of it. Trades- unions, co-operative, building, land societies, and the rest would all disappear, for they all imply the institution of property. The numerous associations of which we have liere FRIDAY APTERNOON. 459 the delegates would have no raison d'etre. There would be no hope of a plot of ground for the countryman, of secure tenure of a farna, of a homestead of his own for any of us. There would be no ' Union ' on one side and employer on the other ; no personal relation between any capitalist and any labourer or any farmer. There would be but one employer, one capitalist, one proprietor, one general manager of everything and everybody. That one would be the State. But what is the State in any intelligible sense as sole landlord, sole capitalist, sole manager ? The State, we know, collects taxes and manages the army and the navy, and some persons are not satisfied with the way that these trifles are managed. But what is tlie meaning of the State, the possessions of which should be the aggregate capital of the kingdom, and the spending depart ments of which would have to pay in earnings alone a thousand millions a year to twelve millions of persons ? And on what principles, by what institutions, and what machinery, is this fabulous task to be acconaplished ? As no one has as yet given us any intelligible answer to this problem, it will be wiser to adjourn so vast a question. From all that I have said it will appear that, whilst I hold as strongly as any man that our industrial system is socially unjust and unsound, I look upon none of the industrial schemes I have considered as going to the roots of the question. Our industrial system is vicious, because our moral, religious, and social system is disorganised. It is impossible to regenerate industry until we also regenerate society. Trades unions, co- operation, and all the mutual benefit movements, are useful in their way, but they only touch the surface. Land confiscation could only affect a minority, and would not very clearly benefit them. Land confiscation is only a fragmentary and partial kind of Communism ; and Communism itself, as we hear of it to- day, is only a more sweeping confiscation, and a fragmentary and partial kind of social disorganisation. Property is only one of many social institutions ; and industry is only one of many human duties. To make property a little more common, more accessible, to check some abuses of property here and there, may be exceedingly useful when wisely accomplished ; 460 INDUSTKIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. but it cannot in itself alter human nature, life, and society. Even to abolish property, and to naake a strict code for industry, is only to get rid of one social institution, and to regulate one of many human duties. To expect a millennium from any kind of partial remedy is like giving pills to cure a fever. Industry can only be regenerated by regenerating society. And society can only be regenerated by sound religion, true morality, right education, wise institutions, and good government. The root of the matter is that we can only change the general conditions of industry by changing the spirit in which industry is carried on ; and we can only gain partial and temporary improvements by mending this or that industrial institution. Whilst men as a rule pursue their own desires and interests, the strongest and the most lucky will get the best of it, and the weak and the unfortunate will be cruelly used. And such is the ingenuity of human skill and the force of self- interest, that, alter as we please the mechanical modes in which industry is arranged, the strong and the fortunate soon contrive to turn them to their own advantage. The best proof of this is to be found in Mr. George's own books, especially in his last. He shows us that the industrial evils he denounces grow to immense proportions where all the social conditions and industrial arrangements are varied, and society begins with a mere tabula rasa. Almost the only point in which the Pacific territories of America originally resembled England was this, that the passion of self-interest was imperfectly controlled by a sense of social duty, and in the case of the States was even abnormally stimulated. Here then, in human nature, without sufficient moral control, is the source of all this evil ; and it is melancholy to see a man of genius labouring by a set of sophisms, each more preposterous than the last, to show that its source is in property in land. If the cause of industrial misery be traced to the passion of self-interest, and to a low sense of social duty, there might seem to be no more to be said. We should have to wait for a general improvement in civilisation. But there is more to be said. Industry has managed to develop a moral code of its own. In politics, philosophy, art, or manners, in domestic or FRIDAY AFTERNOON. 461 social life, self-interest is not canonised as the principal social duty of naan. In industry it is otherwise. For all industrial matters, in modern Europe and America, a moral code has been evolved, which makes the unlimited indulgence of self-interest, pushed to the very verge of liability to law, the supreme social duty of the industrious citizen. To buy cheap, to sell dear, to exhaust the arts of competition, to undersell rivals, to extend business, to develop trade, to lend on the best security, to borrow at the lowest rate, to introduce every novelty, to double and to halve business at every turn of the market — in a word to create the biggest business in the least time, and to accu- mulate the greatest wealth with the smallest capital — this is seriously taught as the first duty of trading man. Economists, politicians, moralists, and even preachers urge on the enter- prising capitalist that the industrialist does best his duty by society who does best his duty by himself. Banker, merchant, manufacturer, proprietor, tradesman, and workman alike sub- mit to this strange moral law. Almost the only class of capital- ists in this island who do not as a rule accept it are, in truth, those great landlords who are the principal object of modern attack. It is assumed as beyond proof that the rapid increase of business, the great accumulation of wealth, is a good perse— good for the capitalist, good for society. No account is taken of the business ruined, of the workmen thrown out of employ- ment, of the over-production, of the useles^;. mischievous, rotten trade created, and of all the manifold evils scattered broadcast amongst the producers and everyone within range of the work. It is enough to have made business, to have accumulated wealth, without coming within the grasp of the law. Here, then, is the all-sufficient source of industrial maladies. We have come, in matters industrial, to treat duty to others, and duty to society, as only to be found in duty to self. If all employers were as thoughtful of the general welfare of those they employ as tbey are now eager to get the most out of them ; if all producers were as anxious for good, sound, and useful pro- duction as they are for paying production ; if those who lend money considered not only the security and the interest, but the purpose for wliich the money was sought; if those who 462 INDUSTRIAL EEMUXERATION CONFERENCE. develop new works thought more of the workers than of possible profits, industry would not be what we see it. In other words, the solution of the industrial problem is a moral, social, and religious question. Industry must be moralised — infused with a spirit of social duty from top to bottom, from peer to peasant, from millionaire to pauper. But to moralise society is the business of moralists, preachers, social teachers ; the economist has but little more to add, and his field is not here. But here I must pause. This Conference is no place for moralising or preaching ; neither religion nor social science have their pulpits here. And, for myself, anything I could say I must reserve for another place. State Management of Land. By J. Shield Nicholson, M.A., Professor of Political Economy in the University of Edinburgh. The advantages which might conceivably arise from the State management of land are of two distinct kinds, which may be described as (i.) financial; (ii.) utilitarian. I. State management ivith a view to financial gain. — It seems to be generally admitted, and can easily be proved, that if full compensation, at market values, were given to existing landowners, the bargain would in all probability be a bad one for the State. The present value of any possible future incre- ment is part of the market value, and accordingly the State could only gain through the occurrence of events unforeseen when the market value was calculated. It is impossible to de- termine whether the economic rental of this country — that is, the rent paid for the natural qualities of the land, superiority of situation, &c. — will rise or fall during any future period. The present fall in agricultural rents was never anticipated, and it is at any rate possible that increased facilities in the means of communication, or the adoption of dififerent methods of produc- tion and exchange, may cause an equal fall in ground rents. Apart from other elements of uncertainty, it is impossible to FKIDAY AFTEENOON. 463 foretell the movements of general prices. An appreciation of gold, or, which is the same thing, a general fall in prices, seems at present more than probable, and it would be disastrous for the State to make a vast speculation for the rise in a falling market, and that is the real meaning of full compensation at market values, with a view to financial gain, under present circumstances. The argument against giving less than full compensation does not rest merely on instinctive morality. In a modern society the stability of credit is of the most vital importance. A serious shock to credit would paralyse the commerce and in- dustry of the country, and the confiscation, or partial confisca- tion, of land could not fail to produce a prolonged commercial crisis. The unearned increment, as it is called, assumes many forms, and to attack one is to threaten all the others. But even confining the attention to rent, those who advocate confiscation cannot have considered how many interests besides those of the nominal owners of large estates are involved. There can be no doubt that any direct gain arising from confiscation would be far more than counterbalanced by the indirect loss arising from the consequent contraction of credit. Apart from this purely economic consideration, full compensation to existing owners is justified on the moral ground that for generations land has entered into the circle of exchangeable commodities, and the defects of the original titles have been purified by contract. It is no doubt true, as a general proposition, that all wealth is the result of labour, and at first sight it seems quite plausible to say that therefore all wealth should form the reward of labour. But under a system of extended and minute division of labour, the only definite meaning to be attached to the right of an individual to enjoy the fruits of his own labour is the right to the fulfilment of the best contract lie can make. There is a very small part of the wealth of any individual which he can claim to have made by his own labour directly ; his only title to the remainder depends on an extended series of contracts, and any direct application of the labour test is absolutely impossible in a modern industrial society. The only legitimate method by which the State can gain from 464 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. a rise in reatai is by taxation, and taxes to be equitable must be levied on general principles, which it is beyond the scope of this paper to discuss. Tt is sufficient for the present purpose to state that land is not the only luxm-y which the actual owners have not made for themselves, and that economic rent is not the only unearned increment, and for further illustration to refer to the learned works of the German socialists. 11. — Utilitarian advantages of State ntanagement. — Apart, however, from any prospect of financial gain and in spite of the prospect of financial loss, State management may be advocated on grounds which can best be described as utilitarian. The right of compensation being admitted, the State (including local authorities) may in the interests of the community, either (a) purchase certain portions of land and assume the functions of landlord, or (6) diminish the control of private property in land by undertaking the partial management of all land. (a) It is easy to imagine particular cases in which the pur- chase of a portion of land by the State might be of advantage to a limited number of the community. The wealth and power of the State are so great that it can remedy almost any particu- lar evil. But this power of the State, which at first sight seems indefinitely large, is kept within very narrow limits by the fundamental principle that it must be prepared to extend the charitable or beneficial course adopted in any one instance to all similar cases. If, for example, it assumes the functions of landowner in one district of the Highlands, it must act in the same way towards the rest of the Highlands similarly situated, and further, unless very special causes of difference are shown to exist, it must extend the same benefits to the whole class of agricultural labourers throughout the kingdom. Similarly, if land is purchased by the State for the benefit of the poor in one city, land must be purchased in other cities for the same reason. Accordino-ly, any action of the State in the direction of amelio- rating the condition of the poor by the purchase of land, whether in rural or urban districts, if it is to be equitable must be of very wide extent. It seems hardly necessary to enumerate the difficulties and abuses which would arise from the State be- coming the universal landlord of the poor ; the success of the FEIDAY AFTERNOON. 465 system would depend on the integrity, zeal, and efficiency of the officials appointed, from the head of a department down to the lowest inspector. In fact, all the difficulties involved in State socialism would have to be overcome. If the management were conducted according to rigid iaflexible rules, there would be no scope for variation in particular emergencies, and, if room were left for variation, according to the discretion of officials, there would be equal room for caprice. Much has been written of the abuses of absenteeism, but from its very nature the State would always be an absentee landlord. (6) We seem then to be reduced by a process of rejection of alternatives to State interference with the management of land in general by a curtailment of some of the existing rights of private property or land, as, for example, in rural districts by judicial rents, valuation of improvements, assignment of land, determination of tenancy, &c., and in towns and cities by similar judicial functions so far as applicable to the case. In the limits assigned to this paper I can only examine the rural problem, and that merely in the briefest manner. Partial State Dianagement in rural districts. — Agricul- ture is the most important of all industries in this country, and in many ways the general prosperity of the labouring classes depends on the prosperity of agriculture. An increase in the rural population, not due simply to a process of ' making work,' would certainly be advantageous, and an improvement in the condition of the agricultural labourer would be reflected to the towns. At present, whatever may be hoped for as an ideal, agriculture is in this country mainly directed by tenant- farmers, and it cannot be supposed, that whatever facilities for purchase were offered, they would be induced to invest a large part of their capital in the purchase of land. If they did not do so before the recent Acts, which have in- creased the security of their farming capital, it is hardly likely that they will do so now. The most important practical question then that arises is : How far can the State with advan- tage take over any of the functions of the landowners as regards tenant-farming ? Tiie principal points of possible control are the selection of the tenant, the amount of rent, the H u 466 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. determination of the tenancy, and the compensation for im- provements. Selection of the tenant. — At first sight it might appear tliat the selection of the tenant might be safely left to land- owners and tenants respectively, but in reality several difficult points are involved. The size of the holdings, the nature of the produce, and a group of social considerations must be taken into account. In the Highlands of Scotland at the present time, the essence of the whole agitation on the part of the crofters is a cry for more land. In their view the most im- portant function of a land court will be to effect this object — that is to say, the selection of the tenant is to be handed over to State official?. The demand made is that the large farms and deer-forests should be broken up, and the crofter holdings increased both in size and number. According even to the report of the Crofters' Commission, which, compared with some views widely prevalent, is comparatively conservative, large powers are to be given to the sheriff for the expansion of the townships. At a recent meeting of landowners in Inverness, a promise has been made to extend the crofter holdings as oppor- tunity arises ; but it is quite clear that a general promise admits of various interpretations, and it is quite possible that legisla- tion may take the direction of applying the principle so ably advocated by Mill of governmental interference with the view of giving effect to the wishes of the parties concerned. Two distinct courses seem possible. The first is to appoint an executive commission to determine as regards every estate how much land is to be given to the crofters under certain conditions, and the other is to fix a minimum size of holding, determined by the produce it can raise and the stock it can carry, and to leave the landlord to his own devices in making the enlarge- ments necessary. Both plans are beset with difficulties. In some cases the extension would involve compulsory emigration, in most there would be a difficulty in providing stock, and in all it would be hard to draw the line between the substantial crofter and the labourer or fisherman who is to receive merely a garden plot. In addition to these difficulties, according to the general principle of beneficial legislation noted above, the FEIDAY AFTERNOON. 467 similar claims of agricultural labourers in other parts of the country must be provided for. A redistribution of land once begun will not stop at the Highlands, even although it is not intended as a precedent. The same circumstances may not be found in other parts of the country, but it is never difficult to find a justification for the extension of a method once adopted. It ought then to be remembered that so far as the Highlanders are worse off than other agricultural labourers, it is due to the subdivision of the holdings on the estates where the landowner has been too weak, too indulgent, or too careless to prevent it, and it seems inevitable that in some manner subdivision must be prevented unless an agrarian crisis on an increasing scale is to recur every other generation. Seeing that on some estates subdivision has been prevented by the strict enforcement of estate regulations, the natural course would appear to be to make the landowners responsible, and if necessary to stimulate them to the observance of the moral law by legal penalties. Rent. — So far as Great Britain is concerned the evidence appears to show that, with the possible exception of a com- paratively small area in the Highlands, there is no need for judicial interference with rent on the ground that monopoly rents are exacted. In England in particular there is a good deal of land which cannot find tenants at nominal rents — in fact (with the exception noted), the advantage of position in making the bargain as regards rent is decidedly on the side of the farmer. The essence of monopoly is not mere limitation — every form of wealth is limited — but absence of competition, and English landowners can no more exact monopoly rents than any other capitalists can exact monopoly profits. Those who are chained down by long leases are of course inclined to appeal to the State, but it is their own fault for embarking on a highly speculative undertaking. A consideration of the causes on which rent depends {i.e. regarded as a surplus over the expenses of production) will show that it is extremely hazardous to fix rent for a long period. A Government official would be in no better position than a farmer ought to be in the estimation of these causes. If any change is made in the present matter of fixing rents by agreement, it would be better to borrow a H H 2 468 INDUSTEIAL KEMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. principle from the French law, according to which a certain amount of gross produce is a condition precedent to the pay- ment of rent, but if the farmers are really anxious to get rid of the speculative element entirely they should adopt a sliding- scale varying with produce, prices, wages, &c. Duration of tenancy and notice to quit. — From the diffi- culty of moving agricultural capital from one holding to another the notice to quit ought to extend over a period long enough to secure the tenant from loss and to put him on fair terms with the landlord. The principle is already recognised, and in the recent Act the period was extended, but with the increasing complexity of agriculture a further extension seems desirable. It is difficult to imagine any reason for a closer approximation to fixity of tenure. The success of agriculture depends on effective competition, and fixity of tenure implies exclusion of competitors. A tenant who is unreasonably and capriciously evicted will, if an efficient farmer, easil}'^ find a more amiable landlord elsewhere, and if he is evicted for inefficiency so much the better for the community at large. One of the principal evils which would be involved in general State management would be the practical necessity of fixity of tenure. It must, however, be admitted that such an approximation to ownership might do something towards stimulating the industry and hope of very small tenants, such as the Highland crofters, and long leases seem to offer one of the best solutions of their difficulty. Compensation for improvements. — From whatever point of view the subject be regarded, it seems most important that the maximum of compensation for improvements and security for the investment of capital should be given to the tenant, and it is possible that this object might be best effected by official valuation on the termination of a tenancy. But it seems much more important to determine for what compensation shall be compulsory than the precise amount and the method of valua- tion. The principle of the recent Act should be carried to its logical conclusion, and compensation given for everything ' necessary for good husbandry and which does not change the character of the subject.' If more than this is attempted, the landlords will be deterred from letting their land, and will FEIDAY AFTEENOON. 469 attempt to farm it themselves, which could only be regarded as a national calamity, as every landowner who has farms on his hands will be ready to admit. Landlord cultivation is bailiff cultivation, and a bailiff is an inferior tenant at will. Owing to the sentiment clinging to ownersliip and the impossibility of moving an estate, the landowner may be made to bear a good many burdens, but the last straw which would induce him to farm his own land should never be placed on his back. It seems, however, that the principle of the Act might be con- siderably extended before this point was reached. It is difficult to conceive why a farmer who makes an improvement which answers the above description, which is necessary for good hus- bandry, and which does not change the character of the subject, should be deprived of compensation because it happens to be what is called permanent, especially as the Act gives him modified permission to drain. So long as the principle of com- pensation is the value, and not the cost, of the improvement, the landowner could not suffer. The agricultural labourer would probably gain more from the complete logical extension of the principles of the Act than from any change in the land laws. The cottages of the labourers ought to be included in the requisites of good husbandry, just as much as drains or farm-buildings. The farmer, if he were secure in his invest- ment, would soon find that improved dwellings for his labourers would pay him directly or indirectly. In some cases the im- provement might, under the stimulus of compulsory com- pensation, be undertaken by the labourers themselves. Labour would be attracted to the country, and its efficiency would be increased. The great complaint made to the recent Commission on Agriculture was the deterioration in the labourer on account of the constant migration of the better specimens of the class. The only economic reason why at present the farmer is less con- cerned for the accommodation of his men than of his beasts, is that any improvement in the latter belongs to himself only, whilst he is never sure of reaping the advantage of any ex- penditure upon the former. There can, however, be no doubt that a general improvement in the moral and material well- being of the agricultural labourers would benefit both farmers 470 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. and landlords. Inefficient, careless labour, however cheap, is always costly. A good case, then, seems to be made out for the enforcement by the State of general sanitary conditions, and for giving compensation (valued in the same way as for other improvements) for any improvement in accommodation which exceeds this legal minimum. The provision that the improve- ment in this, as in other cases, should be necessary for good husbandry, would limit the number and size of the cottages according to the requirements of the farm or the estate. Every farm requires a certain number of labourers, and good cottager are as necessary as a good steading ; and if, as in the Highlands, land is let to very small tenants, they should receive full com- pensation for improvements in their dwellings. So long as the compensation is given for value, and not for cost, it could never be very great, but even the bare right to compensation would be an encouragement. As a matter of fact, fixity of tenure is the rule at present in the Highlands, so that whilst the right to compensation would ensure the improvement being made, a claim for compensation in money would very rarely arise. Conclusion. — The conclusion to which the foregoing argu- ment leads is that, on the whole, neither on financial nor on utilitarian grounds can the direct management of land by the State be considered either advantageous or necessary. As far as the ordinary farmer who farms for profit is concerned, all that is required is to make explicit what is equitably implied in the nature of his contract. The interest of the community in the good cultivation of land is too great to allow a landowner to indulge in capricious and restrictive covenants. If he lets his land for agricultural purposes, he ought to give every facility for good cultivation and enterprise. If the farmer by his own labour and capital, and without infringing the general purpose for which the land was let, adds to its letting value, he ought to have a claim for compensation. The landowner could have no cause for complaint, if the option of making the per- manent improvement were always open to him (as is now the case in drainage), and if compensation were always proportioned not to cost but to value. It is absurd to call such an interpre- tation of agricultural contracts an infringement of the principle FKIDAY AFTERNOON. 471 of freedom of contract ; as a matter of fact what is loosely called freedom of contract would be largely increased if the restrictions on the freedom of agricultural enterprise were removed. To the community at large and to the farmer it is a matter of indifference who receives the rent which arises from natural superiority of situation, &c., but it is of the highest importance that the payment of rent to a particular person should not involve indirect loss of any kind. In its indirect effects rent resembles a tax on a commodity, in which the important thing to consider, from a national point of view, is not the direct payment of the tax but the consequent restraint on trade. The present owners have a right to receive rent, or in case of expropriation a full equivalent, but they have no right to impose restraints on what is by far the most important industry in the country ; as Mill says, the claim of the landowners to compensation is indefeasible, but their claim to the land itself is altogether subordinate to the general policy of the State. And when we pass from the capitalist farmers to the smaller tenants and the labourers, something more seems equitably exigible from the landowners. If the present system fails in any respect, two distinct courses are open : (1) the State may buy out the landlords and entrust their duties to its own paid officials ; or (2) the State may impose additional obligations on the present owners. The second course is that suggested by the course of beneficial industrial legislation. The essence of the factory legislation is the responsibility of the capitalist — the State does not itself build model factories or superintend the processes of production, but it lays down general conditions under which alone such production can be carried on, and competition with all its variety and energy is left unfettered. It may be urged in the same way that in cases where the recognised moral responsibility of the landowners fails, it should be effectively enforced by legal sanctions. The discovery of the best methods must be a work of time, but if the principle is once fully recognised that, from the point of view of the community, rent is paid for the fulfilment of certain functions the delay wiU not be long. It is not State management that is 472 INDUSTRIAL REMUNERATION CONFERENCE. required, but that the landowners should manage properly them- selves. It is difficult to see why a factor appointed by a duke, as the head of a department, should be any better than the factor of the same duke, considered as a responsible landowner. At the same time, just as in the factory legislation the workman is responsible for his own negligence, so in land legislation, on the principles here laid down, an increase in the responsibility of the landowner should not be accompanied by a diminution in the responsibility of the small tenant or labourer. In the two most important matters — sanitation and over-crowding — both must be responsible. The conclusion of the whole matter is : — Make the nominal owner real owner, make the real owner responsible for equitable contracts and good management, and do not pay one I'ent to landowners for doing nothing and another to State officials for performing their natural duties. [Note. — For a more complete statement of the views expressed in this paper, the writer would refer to his book : Tenants Gain not Landlord's Loss, and other Economic Aspects of the Land Question. Edinburgh : Douglas. And Examination of the Crofters' Commis- sion Report. Blackwood.] NOTE ON DR. WALLACE'S PAPER. By Professor Nicholson. Since I wi-ote my paper I have read the scheme offered to the Con- fei-ence by Mr. Wallace. It seems to me to be an example of the ' good despot ' fallacy — that is to say, the ' knowledge and integrity ' demanded fi'om the assessors and umpire on the one part, and the obedience and contented ness demanded from the labourers, farmers, and landlords on the other, are more than can be expected of rural human nature at present. Even on starting the scheme, a conflict of claims would arise, which it would be very difficult to settle equitably with the highest knowledge and integi^ity obtainable in the kingdom. Nothing short of an executive commission could ever undertake a redistribution of land on the scale proposed. Again, suppose the plots have been distributed, and tliat in any case the labourer cannot pay the rent, will he at once dispose of his holding and depart, or will he require a legal process ? With the rule, one man one plot, will he be able always to sell his holding] If he cannot sell it and cannot pay his rent, what will become of the FKIDAY AFTERNOON. 473 land in the meantime 1 How are the plots to be inherited or be- queathed 'i I think on reflection Mr. Wallace will find that he has only got rid of State management and land laws by assuming a simplicity that does not and cannot exist, and I am quite certain of one thing, that such a scheme, so far from settling the Highland land question, would make matters much worse, by ci'eating a nvimber of additional holdings of the size that has been universally condemned by land- lords, farmers, crofters, and the Royal Commission. Where there is real agrarian cUstress in the Highlands, it has arisen from the informal adoption of Mr. Wallace's plot system. The people have been their own assessors when the landlords have not been strong enough to prevent it, and now they appeal to Government to extend their hold- ings. What the crofters wish for and demand is a good deal more than these small plots. There is a general desire on the part both of landlords and crofters to increase the size of the holdings, but the pi-actical difficulties in the way are very great. In some quarters, e.g., Lewis, emigration, or at least migration, is inevitable. The Crofters Commission made an elaborate attempt to provide for the extension of holdings, but their scheme is genei-ally considered unworkable. It is true that Mr. Wallace does not pin his faith in his plan to the particular method adopted, but my contention is that from the nature of the case nothing but an elaborate system of law and judicial machinery could make such a plan tolerable. Everyone may approve of cultivating ownership in the abstract, but the real difficulty is, how can it be attained 1 It seems to me that the ideal of land law reform ought not to be to abolish the hire of land, which in all ages has been found useful, but to make contracts for the hire of land equitable — not to eliminate the landlord from the social economy, but to make him feel his responsibility and perform his natural functions, The French Worhmaris Party on the State Management of Capital and Land. By Adolphe Smith,' F.C.8. In discussing the remuneration of labour, it is only natural to inquire what the workers themselves have to say on the subject. For such a purpose it will, however, be necessary to look beyond ' Mr. Smith was especially authorised by the Federation des Travailleur.^ socialistes de France to represent their views at the Conference. 474 INDUSTEIAL KEMUNERATION CONFEHENCE. the Channel. Though the English trades unions are admirably organised and are the wealthiest working-class societies in existence, they cannot pretend to have even attempted to solve the social question. As benefit societies, they have rendered immense service, and, by combinations, they have at once raised wages and reduced the hours of labour ; but if by the ex- pedient of strikes and benefit funds they succeed in mitigating the evil effect of our present economic condition, they have not, as a body, sought to remove the cause. The very reverse is the case with foreign workmen. Less practical but more logical, devoted to principle rather than to expediency, and easily carried away by enthusiasm, they have readily accepted proposals attacking the very foundations of society and aiming at the complete regeneration of mankind. Nevertheless, experience soon proved that such dreams cannot be realised in a day, and, even if absolutely correct in theory, can only be the outcome of a slow evolution. In this French workmen have of late years shown great practical common-sense. A few still cherish the hope of immediate revolution and the immediate transformation of society into a Communist community. These tempestuous agitators, the Anarchists and the Impossibilists, however noisy, represent but an infinite minority, and are honeycombed with police agents, who egg them on to every extravagance, so as to supply a pre- text for their imprisonment. The real Workman's Party, while upholding an ideal which is quite as advanced, quite as revolu- tionary, as any of these smaller bodies, is far more reasonable in the choice of ways and means. They aim at gradual experi- mental legislation rather than sudden revolution. Taught by experience, by service in the army, by personal participation in war, they realise that the working classes, though numerous, could scarcely, if unaided by foreign complications or the support of the rank and file, withstand the military forces the Government would bring to bear against tbem. They have consequently resolved, for the present at least, to abandon the barricade for the ballot-box. In this they have met with general support, though such prudent policy was so much opposed to the traditions of the French workmen, that they FEIDAY AFTERNOON. 475 were sneeringly called the ' Possibilists.' This nickname, however, has done them more good than harm, particularly as those who first employed it were soon recognised to be * Im possibilists ' ! The history and strength of the French Workman's Party are well worthy of a moment's consideration. Before describing the ultimate aim and the intermediary measures they advocate, it is necessary to show that they possess sufficient power to justify the belief that, in course of time, they will be able to realise at least a part of their programme. It was only in 1876, when the ' White Terror ' was over, that the French working classes began to reorganise themselves. Their hopes and aspirations, temporarily crushed by the san- guinary suppression of the Paris Commune, the death or exile of their bes-t leaders, found voice once more. These were timidly expressed at the first general congress, held in Paris. At any previous date such a gathering would have been ruthlessly dis- solved by the police ; and it was in this instance barely tole- rated. Two years elapsed before the workmen ventured to again assemble the delegates of their trade societies and political clubs. This second congress was also held in Paris. The principal outcome of these two congresses was the recognition of the unavoidable antagonism existing between the interests of the workers and the holders of capital — the consequent neces- sity of establishing a Labour Party with a purely working-class policy. The third congress, held at Marseilles in 1879, went much farther. The principles of scientific Socialism — those same aspi- rations which have so recently rallied more than half-a-million voters in Grermany — were then adopted for the first time. It was recognised that the present economic and political situation must tend to the creation of a capitalist feudality, which, by monopolising the means of production, will reduce the workers to the condition of mere serfs. To prevent this consummation, the working classes must descend into the political arena, con- stitute a distinct class and party, and bring about, by all pos- sible means, the ' socialisation ' or nationalisation of the raw material — that is, the land — and of the means of production — 476 INDUSTKIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. that is, machinery, &c. But this programme, which expresses what is generally known as Socialism, was strenuously opposed by those who believed in co-operation based on individual and voluntary effort or in mere trades unionism. At the fourth congress, held at Havre in 1880, this moderate section broke away from the general body, and went to form what is now known as V Union des Chambres Syndicales Ouvrieres. This faction, however, soon fell into general discredit. It was patronised by the Government, some of its promoters were under Government pay, and such a connection was alone quite suffi- cient to destroy what little influence it might otherwise have possessed. Acting upon the decision of the Marseilles Congress, the delegates at Havre prepared for the forthcoming elections, and it is said that in 1881 no less than 96,000 votes were recorded throughout France for the candidates of the new Workman's Party. In Paris, at the municipal elections, they obtained 11,873 votes. The fifth congress, held during the year of the elections at Eheims, busied itself principally with questions of organisation. France was divided into five regions, and Algeria formed a sixth region. It was decided that each region should have its annual congress, that a national com- mittee, representing all the regions, should be elected, and Paris was chosen as its abode. This central executive committee was further entrusted with the production of a weekly paper, the Proletariat, as the organ of the party. The congress of 1882 was held at St. Etienne, where another small secession took place. The followers of M. Guesde, for personal and other motives, left the parent organi- sation and formed a little group of their own, known as the Guesdists or Impossibilists. The last two congresses — of Paris in 1883, of Rennes in 1884 — need only be mentioned as having helped to further organise the party. What should be noted with care is the practical result of this organisation. While the Workman's Party obtained at the Paris municipal elections of 1881 the sum total of 11,873 votes, the following election showed that its voting power had trebled in three short years. Their candidates scored 33,604 in 1884, and there were also FEIDAY AFTERNOON. 477 3,219 given to the Blanquists, and 867 votes to the Griiesdists. Altogether, for the election of the municipal council in 1884 there were recorded 287,730 votes, of which 37,690 were in favour of the out-and-out Socialists. We are therefore dealing* with a genuine political power of growing strength. In the provinces also the increase of voting power was very marked, and many of the municipal councillors elected were representa- tives of the French Workman's Party. Enough has now been said of the history and strength of this organisation, officially called the Federation des Travail- leurs socialistes de France, to show that, in describing its aims and objects, I am not merely propounding a scheme or a theory but explaining efforts that constitute an important phase of modern and practical politics. I will, however, say less of the ultimate ideal held in view than of those measures that could be at once applied, and which would serve as stepping-stones in the desired direction. My brief allusion to the principles laid down by the Marseilles Congress suffices to show that the French Workman's Party is thoroughly Socialistic, and its ultimate aim might be briefly defined as the ' nationalisation of everything.' But I can go further than this, and will say that, in the hope of thoroughly eradicating the last vestige of our present competi- tive and individualistic system, the greater part of the work- men are Communists, and believe in an ideal state of society where everyone will work according to his capabilities and receive according to his needs. These are not, however, the points that I now wish to discuss. I mention them simply because efforts have been made to discredit, the French Work- man's Party in the eyes of the French working classes, by representing them as too moderate, as Opportunists, and other terms that tend to destroy their prestige in the eyes of a people who are always anxious to see a complete scheme and not a mere temporary expedient. Also it is well to show that it is possible to hold opinions which many will qualify as mere dreams, or as mischievously subversive of all that is held dear by modern society, and yet be both practical and moderate when dealing with the daily circumstances by which we are sur- rounded. Let me therefore point out, not the ultimate aims, but 478 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. the immediate, the present action of the French Workman's Party. Three social questions are more particularly before the public at the present moment in Paris, just as well as in London — namely, the depression of trade, the housing of the poor, and the dearness of bread. On all these three points the French Workman's Party have issued reports and made definite proposals. It was through their action that the Commission of the Forty-Four was appointed by the National Assembly to inquire into the causes of the prevailing commercial depression. But the first of these three problems raises the entire social question, and can only be partially solved by intermediary measures. These latter, therefore, are proposed not as a logical and theoretically perfect solution, but, I repeat, as mere stepping-stones. It is in this light only that the suggestions of the Possibilist Party must be judged. They urged that the prevailing industrial depression would be lightened if all work done for the State was entrusted solely to the workmen's corporations, and no intermediary contractor or employer allowed to undertake public works. Already the streets of Paris are paved by the Paviors' Corporation and not by a private firm, while the Official Journal is entirely in the hands of those who compose and print it, the profits being divided among the workmen. Public money spent n public works should go to the benefit of the workers at large and not to individual con- tractors, who often grind down their hands to starvation wages. It is objected, however, that the trade corporations have not the necessary funds to undertake State contracts. To this they reply that, in 1848, the Grovernment gave 2,400,000^. to the Comptoir d'Escompte to be distributed among the middle-class tradesmen who were then suffering from commercial depression. A smaller sum would now enable the trades unions to undertake all government work without any intermediary contractor or employer. What the bourgeois obtained in 1848 the workman may claim in 1885. As over-production, the glut in the labour market, and excessive competition between workmen in search of employ are among the most prominent causes of the present depression, the French Workman's Party demand that legislation FEIDAY AFTEKNOON. 479 shall reduce the legal working day to eight hours, and render it illegal to employ any foreign workmen — notably Grermans, Italians, and Belgians — at lower rates than those generally paid to the native Frenchmen. Such legislation, when possible, should be extended to other countries ; the condition of the most favoured nation being accepted as the basis of an inter- national treaty. The solution of the second question, the housing of the poor, would also greatly contribute to relieve the prevailing distress. M. Joffrin, when he represented the Workman's Party on the Paris municipal council, presented a petition signed by forty- seven trades unions, thirty-seven workmen's clubs, and two co- operative societies, urging the town to build dwellings on the land it possesses, which should be let out in tenements at cost price. Such houses would not only serve as models, but their low rental would compete advantageously with private enter- prise. Then, to prevent attempts to rig the market by keep- ing apartments empty for a long period, a tax, of at least twenty per cent, on the annual value, should be imposed on all unutilised land and houses within the fortifications. Such drastic measures would, it will probably be argued, drive away the capital both of the landowner and the speculative builder. If so, nothing could be more fortunate. As the individual, beaten in the struggle, retreated, the State would step in and nationalise both land and houses, and this without any violent revolution, or the payment of compensation at a rate which otherwise would destroy the advantage of the change. Finally, with regard to the third question, the Workman's Party maintains that the condition of the bread trade in Paris proves the futility of orthodox political economy. The 1,800 master bakers of Paris have not been led by free competition to adopt improved machinery and to sell their bread at the. lowest possible price ; they have simply formed a ring so as to maintain high prices, high profits but low wages, and save themselves the trouble and expense of adopting new methods and improved machinery. Under these circumstances, M. Chabert, the Possi- bilist, and M. Vaillant, the Blanquist, members of the Paris municipal council, proposed that the bread supply of the capital 480 INDUSTEIAL KEMUNERATION CONFERENCE. should be converted into a public service. The State, by giving- the highest wages, would command the labour market, and by selling at the lowest rate would secure the largest custom. If private enterprise could survive such competition it would only be on the condition of paying high wages, selling very cheap, and contenting itself with slender profits. If, on the contrary, private enterprise was beaten out of the field, then one trade, at least, would have been nationalised. The meat trade would be attacked in the same manner, and one by one all the other trades, commencing always with the necessities of life. Thus pure Socialism would be realised in the course of time, and this without any sudden shock, without inflicting any widespread ruin on those who derived advantage from the present state of affairs ; but rather by the slow, orderly, and almost natural extinction of the present competitive, individualist and anar- chical system. But, in bringing about this State-aided evolution, it is of para- mount importance that the State itself should be in the hands of the producing classes, of the 'proletariat. State enterprises managed by the bourgeoisie are little better than private enter- prises ; and the workers at the French arsenals or post-office, like their brethren in England, are no better oif than those engaged by private firms. These are the considerations that have given so strong an impulse to the political action of the French Workman's Party, made them eager to contest every election, spread the conviction that the struggle was a struggle of class against class, of producer against non-producer, and that if it be possible to solve the social question pacifically, this can only be done at the ballot-box. Such, in a few words, are the views of the French Workman's Party ; and, when we consider how well it is organised, how powerful it has become in the course of a very few years, the importance of ascertaining what is its aim and policy can scarcely be challenged. This necessity is still further imposed upon us by the fact that the French Federation des Travailleurs socialistes is at one with the American, Belgian, and Spanish Workman's Party and the Italian Labour Party, represented in the Italian parliament by Signor Costa. Though differing perhaps FEIDAY AFTEKNOOX. 481 in minor details, the French "Workman's Party also advocates the same fundamental principles which have united together 600,000 Social Democrat electors of Grermany, and the Social Democratic parties of Switzerland, Holland, Denmark, and England. To discuss the question of industrial remuneration without taking into account what these vast and powerful working-class organisations have to say on the matter, would be to leave out of sight the opinions of those who are personally the most concerned in the satisfactory solution of the problem. Discussion. Dr. G, B. Clark (Highland Land Law Reform Association), before entering into a discussion on the papers read, asked to be heard as representing a society with over 10,000 members in the north of Scotland. Unfortunately, the Highland Land Law Reform Association had not been able to bring their views before the Conference in the form of a paper because, by a mistake, they were not invited to do so. Lord Bramwell had stated that the present land laws were the result of natural causes. The class of people whom he represented could tell the Conference that the land laws existing in the Highlands at the present day were due, not to natural but to artificial causes. Until rather more than a century ago land was held thei*e not as private property, but imder a tribal or patriarchal tenure. In 1846 Hereditary Jurisdiction was abolished; by the same Act compensation was given, and the rights of the crofter or farmer in the soil were practically confiscated by the State. What was the condition of the gi-eat majority of these men 1 They were not asking that one person should have a farm — in nearly the whole of the Highlands until lately there was not an individual property — but common property in land. The individualistic system was not in operation : there was not an individual farm, but there were farming or crofting townships which paid rent. In many places individual farmers in a township did pay a rent, and arable land was held as individual property ; but in the whole of the Highlands gi-azing land was always held as common property by the township. These men whom he represented did not demand anything for some special individual, but they asked that, as communities of agricultural workers, they should have sufficient land to keep them ahve. He wished to state one or two facts which might throw light on the problem under discussion. "Why did misery and destitution exist in the Highlands of Scotland ? He would tell them why. In the I I 482 INDUSTEIAL EEMUNEEATION CONFERENCE. beginning of the century the landlords thought that sheep would pay them better than men, and they cleared away the men in order to replace them by sheep. At first sheep did pay better than men, but not now ; and, therefore, if it were simply a question of sheep versus men, the former would go to the wall and the men would come back a^ain, because all the sheep and cattle runs had been made valuable by the labours of the crofters. A farm which used to give enough food for 1,000 sheep could now only afford suflScient pasture for 500, so that the landlords would be glad to get the men back again. It was now found that deer paid better than either sheep or men. The landlords of the Highlands, in virtue of the rights given partly by the Act of 1846, stolen partly with the concurrence and with the aid of the lawyers and others, since they had taken possession of the soil of the country, had driven the people to the hills and the rocks, there to find a living as best they could. No wonder, then, they now lived in misery and destitution, for their township lands were not sufiicient for them to live upon. They had been driven away and replaced by sheep. Now they were kept away in order that deer forests might be developed, and that for six weeks or two months in the year a few rich gentlemen — successful merchants, lawyers, and manufacturers— might go down and fill up some of their spare time killing tame animals. In order that one of these gentlemen might have 300 square miles of deer forest for himself, another 150, and so on, the inhabitants were driven away on to land exhausted from over-tillage, where they could not get enough to support them. Professor Nicholson's paper contained statements which seemed to be the very reverse of the truth, for he had said that where the Highlanders were worse off than other agricultural labourers was because of the subdivision of the holdings on estates whei*e the landlord had been too weak, indulgent, or careless to prevent it. In spite of the facts disclosed to the world by a Royal Commission com- posed almost entirely of landlords — facts showing that hundreds of families had been driven away to places where they could only eke out a miserable existence — here was a professor of political economy coming forward to state that all this was due to the indulgence of landlords. It was clear that Professor Nicholson rejjresented the landloids quite as much as Major Craigie did. Further than that, Professor Nicholson, as far as security of tenure was concerned, had said in his paper that, as a matter of fact, fixity of tenure was the rule at present in the Highlands. The real state of the case was that 999 out of every 1,000 were tenants- at- will, and they lived in absolute misery. That was the way in which a professor of political economy wrote on this question. The same writer alleged that there I FKIDAY AFTEENOON. 483 was no rack-renting. Some had said that 25 per cent, of the crop as rental would be fau' ; but not a few of these poor men in the High- lands would be glad to give not 25 nor 50 per cent., but the whole of the crop as rental if the landlords would take it. The latter, however, wanted more than the land could possibly give. They also got what was practically a rent for the sea ; this was not house rent in the ordinary sense of the term, since the tenants built all theh" own houses, so that they were really paying for the acres of ocean about their holdings. If these men could have for tillage the many square miles of land now used as deer forests, they would be happy and comfortable. Instead of that they were starving and miserable, and some of them were going to prison to-day rather than submit to this condition any longer ; and yet there came to that Conference a teacher of poUtical economy making this misex-able apology for things as they are ! With regard to land nationalisation, he had hoped to hear something definite upon that burning question from Mr. F. Harrison, but he confessed he was going away very much puzzled. Mr. Harrison had said that land did not differ from any other kind of property. Upon what gi-ound did he want to mulct the landlords to the extent of 15,000,000^. a year, and not to the same extent those who held consols, bank stock, ships, and houses, if land did not differ from any other kind of property ] Mr. Harrison had stated that salt and coal were as valuable a monopoly AS land. Of course, when land was spoken of, all the raw material was meant, and that implied salt and coal. Mr. Burns (Social Democratic Federation) said they had heard from the lips of a fellow-countryman of his — Dr. G. B. Clarke — some rather strong observations. As the grandson of an evicted Ayrshire peasant, he would himself make some equally strong remarks, also pertinent to the question, and especially the paper read by Mr. Frederic Harrison on ' Remedies for Social Distress.' He was per- sonally grateful to Mr. Harrison for having narrowed considerably the issues of the question before the Conference. One remarkable feature of the assembly was the undoubted fact that Mr. Harrison had shown the futihty of co-operative production. (No, no.) Professor Beesly had shown also the impossibility of profit-sharing as a method of improv- ing the woi'ker's condition. One word upon profit-sharing. He, as a worker in a factory, regarded profit-sharing as nothing less than a delusive bait on the part of capitalists to goad the workers on to greater intensity of toil. Mr. Harrison had devoted twenty pages of his paper to a criticism of society as it existed to-day. All well and good. Mr. Harrison had given eight lines on the twenty- first page for the remedy ; and Avhat was the remedy he suggested 1 To a I I 2 484 IXDUSTEI.IL EEMUNERATION COMFERENCE. socialist it was a peculiar one. Mr. Harrison had suggested the moralisation of industry and capital. Moralise capital 1 You might as well try to moralise the lion who was about to devour the lamb ; you might as well attempt to moralise the boa constrictor that had *^ its coils around the body of its victim. Could you moralise the letired capitalist out of his 300 square miles of deer forest, or out of his steam yacht, or out of the guinea orchid he wore in his button-hole 1 All such privileged luxuries had been secvired by the exploitation of labour, and by the prostitution of genius and ability to the very lowest degree. They had been told by Mr. Harrison that many landlords had done a great deal for their tenants and labourers. Yes, but at whose expense 1 From what source 1 Had the landlords some hidden source from which they secured this wealth, which it was said, they devoted to the improvement of the condition of their emiyloyes ? No, they had got it as labour, or as rent, from profit, and had put it into their own pockets. From that platform had been heard repeated statements as to the troubles of the cai-eworn capitalist and the overtaxed landlord. He had in his hand a cutting from the World newspaper, in which it was distinctly stated that three Welsh landlords had given .350,000/. for the improvement of Sandown for racing purposes. If that was so, where was the careworn capitalist or the overtaxed landlord ? It had been said this moralisation was to be brought about by a system of education. Edvication had so far enabled the capitalist to import from the realms of science and invention the means by which labour was deprived of its surplus value, this being done in the most subtle forms. The genius and ability of our greatest men had been prostituted by the landlord and capitalist in then- service, and against the interest of the proletariat. Mr. Harrison had deemed it expedient to criticise the want of system in the socialistic theories of to-day. It was the absence of theory, as regarded modes of production and distribution, that made that Con- ference necessary. If there had been any such theory or principles for the regulation of society to-day, the Conference would not have been necessary. He contended that the socialists had a definite code of prin- ciples — a set of theories — upon which to work. As an artisan, as a follower of Karl Marxs, and of Lassalle, as a member of a revolutionary body in England, he stated distinctly that the socialists had a definite theory. It was because individualism had no theory that it was bringing its own house about its ears. The question had been asked, how was capital to be worked 1 Were there not such things as national banks, and railways owned by the State ? Railways were but a form of capital. He agieed that the battle of the futui^e lay between iiidividuals on the one hand and socialists on the other. FRIDAY AFTERNOON. 485 Englishmen were unconsciously more socialistic than they thought they were. As to collective ownership, let them look at the town of Birmingham to-day. The corporation there owned the sewage, gas- works, and waterworks ; that was collective ownership. Bvit let them -consider the amount of profit realised by the corporation ; it reached no less a sum than 1-50,000^. a year. That saving, due to collective owner- sliip, went to build houses for the artisans, to improve the homes of the labouring population, to pro\dde open spaces, parks, libraries, baths, and washhouses. To such an extent was this carried out that a member of his own trades union had informed the Social Science Congress that, in Birmingham, there were only twelve cases in which a family lived in one room, whilst in Glasgow where there was no similar experience, 48 per cent, of the families lived in one room, and 38 in two rooms. These things at Birmingham had been done at the suggestion of Mr. Joseph Chamberlain. But the inconsistency ought to be pointed out of making a landlord a political and social Jonah for the benefit of the capitalist. If it was right for the President of the Board of Trade to suggest that Birmingham should mivnicipalise its gasworks, sewage, and waterworks, and even go so fir as to include the public houses, where men spent their earnings, surely it was necessary to nationalise the factory, the source from which those earnings came. If they nationalised in one direction and not in another, such inconsistency would not command any- one's respect. If it was right in one direction, it was right also in the other. "What was sauce for the landlord's goose was sauce for the capitalist's gander. (Hear, hear.) He could not, within the short time allotted to him, defend fully the theoretical position of socialism, but he might tell the Conference that bad remuneration was the cause of poverty, and that both bad remuneration and poverty were the result of private ownership in land, capital, and credit. Until governmental co-operation was instituted in Great Britain and in all the countries of the civilised world, they were sure to have the misery, destitution, and anarchy like that of to-day. As a socialist he would impress upon his brother- workers the necessity of studying this question from an economical point of view. As workers they had been told there was freedom to-day. He was sorry to say that the fact of his coming to the Conference as a delegate for the Social Democratic Federation had secured his dismissal from the factory in which he had worked. (Shame.) Where was the freedom in that 1 Was that not slavery 1 There was no freedom so long as you had wage-slaves and wage-slave- drivers. Tlie remedy, the socialists contended, was not only the nationalisation of land, capital, and credit, but proper means of pro- duction, distribution, and exchange. They had been told that the 486 INDUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFERENCE, State could not control labour. Why, in Belgium the railways were owned by the State, and with what result 1 One could travel there 100 miles, first class, for 4^. 6d., while in England, under the sway of individual ownership, we had to pay 25s. 3d., a difference only of 400 per cent, and yet there was 4 per cent, surplus I (Applause.) He could give dozens and dozens of similar ilkistrations to show that miners and agricultural labourers must be forced into the camp of socialism, and thus stop the robbery which they were subject to. Would they combine with the proletariat of Eui'ope who had embraced socialistic principles, or take the side of might against right 1 They would soon have to answer that question. A revolution was germinating in the bowels of society through the inequalities of condition which prevailed. To the middle class he would say : ' Will you guide this revolution, or be driven by it, or try to suppress it by force 1 If you do the latter, upon you rests the responsibility of the strife that is coming — the responsibility of pushing back the hopes and aspirations of the workmen of the world.' (Applause.) Mr. Shaw Lefevre, M.P., said : The discussion throughout the day has taken a very wide view, embracing the general principles of free- dom of contract, of individualism versus socialism, of nationalisation of land, and other matters. Within the few minutes which can be allowed me, I will deal only with one subject, and that very much more briefly than it deserves. I refer to the land question. I must be permitted to express my entire and absolute dissent from those speakers and writers who have advocated nationalisation of land. Looking at the question from the point of view of an economist who has very little interest in landed property and who is not afraid of change, I can only express my belief that such principles would be disastrous in their effect, that they could not be cai'ried out without an amount of cruel injustice to landowners, and that they would result in a system of State management of land which would develop pi'obably an expansion of State officialism which I should deprecate. In one respect I have been agreeably surprised. I have always understood that Mr. Wallace was one of the pi'ophets of nationalisa- tion, but I gather from his paper that he does not think that land- owners should be deprived of their property without compensation, and his ideas seem to me to result in a widely extended system of peasant proprietary which would import individual property in another shape and would not realise the ideas of nationalisation of land. Other speakers, however, have not limited themselves to this, and have spoken of the principle of individual property in land as unjust and as leading to the depression of the working classes. These ideas have been imported from the United States — (no, no) — through FEIDAY AFTEKNOON. 487 the medium of the eloquent and plausible work of Mr. Geoi^ge. I an tempted to ask why it is that these new ideas have not found favour and borne fruit in that country. (Hear, hear.) There are three hundred millions of acres of ground belonging to the different States not yet appropriated as private property, to which the new principle could be applied without injustice to anyone. But not one of the various States has adopted this principle, though they all enjoy universal suffrage. Why is it? I do not doubt that it is because they know that if in any State this pi'inciple were appKed, and it was not permitted to anyone to acquire an individual and personal right and intei^est in land, the stream of emigrants would go elsewhere, and a great blow would be given to the prosperity of the State. This seems to me to show this — that individual property in land has its origin at the foundation of States in the general consent of the people. If this be the case with new States, what are we to say of the application of the principle to old countries where land has for centuries been private property, and where a large proportion of owners have bought within recent times on the faith of the existing order 1 I agree with many speakers that if we are to adopt this principle of nationalisation, we cannot stop there. (Hear, hear.) The same principle would be extended to all other property — (hear, hear) — to houses, to railways, to shares and other property. It is my belief that the principle would not be adopted without the grossest injustice. I am unable to see how it would benefit the labouring people. The landowners employ a large mass of labourers, directly and indirectly, through the improvements they effect. These men would be thrown out of work — (no, no) — and would compete with others, thus lowering the rate of wages, and they would crowd into the towns in the manner already complained of, and would there also lower the rate of wages. It is my belief also that landowners would make a struggle for their property. Something has been said of the Irish land system and of the application of the principle in that country. I was an ardent supporter of the Irish Land Act as the friend of justice. Looking at the historical and economic position of the small tenants of Ireland, and the fact that they had universally made all the impi^ovements on their holdings under conditions totally different from those of English tenants, I thought that the law was justified in conceding to them fixity of tenure ; but no such claim can be justified on the part of the English tenant farmers. They have no hereditary connexion with the soil. The great bulk of them have come upon the land in recent times. They have not effected any of the permanent improvements, and it would be a monstrous injustice to give them fixity of tenure. For my own part I am firmly per- 488 INPUSTRIAL EEMUNERATION CONFEEENCE. suaded of the value of the principle of individual property in land. I think it one of the highest incentives to civilisation and improvement, and to industry and thrift. My object always has been to bring these influences within the reach of all classes. The defect of our system is that, owing jjartly to law and partly to custom, to the political, social, and sporting privileges which have been conceded to land, it has come to be the property of very few persons. (Hear, hear.) No one can look at the condition of landownership in this country with- out feeling alarm at the small number of persons who are interested in it — (hear, hear) — without feeling that it does not exert that influence for good which it ought to do and might do. It is my behef that changes of law in the direction of sweeping away the relics of the feudal system and simplifying the transfer of land will do mach to make a change and to bring land within the reach of all classes. AVe have already deprived it of political privileges. We have diminished greatly its sporting privileges. Recent events and the depression of trade have taken ofl" the greater part of the artificial value of land. We cannot, without concern, compare the position of our labouring classes with that of the labouring people of other countries of Europe in which they have a permanent interest in the soil. I believe that with the changed opinions on the subject we shall see, even without any artificial attempts to sub-divide land, a very great change in this respect, and that before long we shall see a dispersion of land which will bring it within the reach of all classes in this country. (Applause.) Mr. WiLLiAJis (Social Democratic Federation) : As a socialist, I challenge Mr. Shaw Lefevre to meet me on this question upon any platform he may name. Mr. J. Greenwood (Hebden-Bridge Fustian Works), as one practically acquainted with an attempt at co-operative production, remarked that co-operative production had been disparaged to some extent by previous speakei'S, and rather despondently spoken of by their friend Mr. Frederic Harrison. If they could have co-operative pro- duction and exploit their own labour, they would be doing the right thing. What they wanted was to take hold of the industries of the country and, as working men, get themselves gradually into the position of capitalists, and control the workshops to their own ad- vantage. This was the very object at which a small company of workers in connexion with the fustian trade at Hebden-Bridge had been aiming — a co-operative society with which he was himself associated. At the commencement of their effort fourteen years ago, when they were engaged as fustian workers in the workshops connected with that trade, they were suffering very considerably through the non- FEIDAY APTEKNOON. 489 regularity of employment. Since they began this experiment they had very much improved that state of things. Formerly they had only two or thi"ee days' work in a week on some occasions, and now and then a whole week would pass without their having any employ- ment. That was not the case in connexion with the Hebden-Bridge society. They had regular occupation, and by this means they had raised their wages 20 per cent, higher than they were before they commenced on their own account. The best rates of wages of the district are also paid. There were on the platform gentlemen who could certify to the correctness of the statement. As one who lived in the thrilling times of the Chartists' movement in 1842, he re- membered very well the systems that were then being advocated and tried by Fergus O'Connor with reference to land. He sat at the feet of his grandfather and listened to the reading of the Northern Star, and to the schemes then propounded for improving the position of workmen in Lancashire and Yorkshire. The woi'kmen combined to- gether to buy land, and allotments; were made ; but when they came to farm the land, they severally took their own allotments and culti- vated them. They did not co-operate to produce and buy implements o cr ■•* •^ [ Oj lii •— '7< or: >.o cn p_ (N 1 -f 00 iJ w^ rc -o IN Oi CI cc 1 -H Ci cc o ^^ " CO •^ -* « 1 o o »c lo o to ^ ^ >o 00 on CO o '"' ^^ "^ ■— 1 •—I ■— 1 •n o •O 00 ~» >5 !M » _, GO O ^ (^ OO 31 1^ OS ^-> -N rp ■-,'■". ^- w o ! 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Nicholson. (See page 500 above.) (^Reprinted from the ' Timr.^: Fch. 3, 18Sr,.) Sir, — In the discussion of my paper on State Management at the Industiial Remnne ration Conference on Friday last, Dr. G. B. Clarke is reported to have said that some of my statements regarding the crofters were the very reverse of truth. As I was unfortunately unable to be present and to answer Dr. Clarke on the spot, will you allow me space to quote three sentences from the report of the Crofters' Commission, which amply prove my statements — (1) That the crofters are not, with a few exceptions, rack-rented : (2) That they practically enjoy fixity of tenure : (3) That subdivision on some estates has been caused by the weakness or indulgence of the landlord. On page 50 of the Report I find it stated : ' In most cases a considerable degree of indulgence, often amounting to benevolence, may be discovered in the rent of small holdings ; they are rarely disposed of, when vacant, on a purely commercial principle, or by public competition in any form, and ai'e almost invariably held on easier terms than might be obtained in the open market by the inconsiderate rivalry of people aspiring to the occupancy of land.' On page 51 it is stated: — 'On a compi'ehensive view of the rents paid by the small tenants in the Highlands and Islands we have not found in the conduct of proprietors gi'ound for proposing a general revision by official authority.' On page 16 : 'Eviction and repartition have done their lamented work and passed away for ever ; . . . but the dangers of subdivision are perpetuated by the tenacity of the tenant, who often settles his offspring on the impoverished holding in defiance of estate regulations.' The fact that I advocated the adoption of leases as a remedy for the crofter difficulty is a sufficient pi'oof that my statement regarding fixity of tenure referred to estate rules and not to law. — I am, etc., J. Shield Nicholson. The University, Kdinburgh : INDEX. ITfi/; Nartfs of if inhvis of the Conffixnce and of Societu's repi-esented are in small capUals, The names of auf/toiities quoted are italicisMl.] ABS ABSTINENCE, 121, 277, iOO Accident, compensation for, 93 ACLAJ^D, Mr. A. H. Dyke, 212, 301 Acts, Adulteration, 398, 402 — Agricultural Holdings, 238, 465, 468/ — Combination Laws (Repeal), 27 — Corn Laws (Repeal), 338 — Corporation Laws (Repeal), 75 — Education, 11, 91 », 278, 401 — Employers' Liability, 10, 492 — Enclosure, 108 — Industrial and Provident Socie- ties, 213. 407 — Irish Land, 401, 487, 498 — Land Purchase, 320 — Poor Law (New), i^8 — Reform (1832), 338 — Regulation of Mines, 398, 403 — Settled Land, 238 — Trades Unions, 10. See also Fac- tory Adulteration, 291 , 325, 402 Age, statistics of, 205, 207 Agreement, form of, 299 Agriculture, co-operation in, 17, 362, 406, 490 — families engaged in, 97 — hindrances to, 110, 128, 133, 135, 228, 340, 407, 410, 412 — production from, 349, 375, 410 — wages, 6, 71, 79, 89, 120, 124, 127, 130, 132, 149, 172, .383, 413, 416. See Land, Farmers, &c. Aikin, Dr., 26, Airedale Woi-sted Manufacturing Company, 18, 310 AiTKix, Mr. J., 71 Alhusen, Mr., 167 Allotments, 380, 382, 406, 421, 489 Allowances, 224 BAL Allowances to rural labourers, 12.5, 127, 133, 149 Amalgamated Society of Car- penters AND Joiners, 332 Amalgamated Society of Rail- way Servants, 281 America, 234, 349, 402 — statistics in, 8, 81, 124 — standard of comfort in, 193 — wheat lands, 189, 226, 397. See also United States Anarchists, 474 Angouleme, 260 Apprenticeship, 23, 168, 202, 210, 405 Arbitration, 33, 36, 152, 167, 170, 223, 333 Areh, Mr. Joseph, 379 Ai-dilaun, Lord, 454 Arkwright, 23 Army, 64, 71, 107, 250, 425, 474 Artisans, 507 — intei-est in trade, 1 53 — standard of comfort, 71, 86, 369, 433 — subdivision among, 168, 208 Artisans' Technical Associa- tion, 405 Ashirorth, 3Ir. H., 32 Assington, 406 AssiNGTON Agricultural Asso- ciation, 406 Austraha, 130, 193, 235, 356 — protection in, 245, 246 Austria, 143 BAGEHOT, Mr., 22, 185 Balfour, Mr. A. J., M.P., 336, 397, 411 Ball, Mr., 126, 411, .501 518 INDEX. BAN Banking, IGO, 105, 177, 179, 181 Bankruptcy, 177, 212 Barnctt, Rev. S. A., 295 B.VHSTABLE, Prol'., 74 Barter, Mr. Budlcy, 3.-, 78, 90, 98, China, 81, 135, 278 Chippendale, 328 Church of England, 63, 71, 85, 274, 378 Clarke, Dr. G. B., 481, 483, 500, 516 Class cleavage, 503 Cleveland Blast-furnacembn, 1.32, 172 Cleveland, 120, 132, 141, 148, 172, 403, 492 Clubs, 170, 401, 402 Clyde, 21 Coal, exhaustion of, 44, 416 — price of, 52 /?, 206 — production of, 14, 33. See Royal- ties Cobden, Richard, 228, 245 Cole, Sir H., 106 Coleman, 3Ir., 120 CoUectivists, 425 Collings, Mr. Jesse, M.P., 395 Colonies, 229, 244, 249 — federation, 247, 287 Colonisation, 154 Combination laws, 10, 27 — among shop assistants, 508 — power of, 179, 301 S'ee Trade Unions Commission, executive, 472 Commissions, French, on profit shar- ing, 259 on prevailing depression, 478 — Royal, on Agriculture, 120, 124, 125, 377, 469 Crofters, 466, 473, 504, 515 Housing of Working Classes, 269 Women and Children's Em- ployment, 380 Commodities, primary and secon- dary, 313 Commons, rights on, 80, 378 — enclosures, 108 Communism, 420, 425, 438, 451, 456 Compagnie d'Assurances generales, 253, 255 Compensation, 93, 107, 387, 462, 468 Competition, foreign, 56, 222, 225 /, 234, 235, 243, 246 Continuit}'. See Emploj^ment Co-operation, 'complete,' 275, 301 DOR Co-operative Printing Co., Man- chester, 19, 310, 334 — production, 17, 19, 40, 58, 152, 159, 204, 284, 304 /, 436, 483 — corn mills, 311 — workshops, 306, 310 — Societies, 40, 55, 123, 177, 181, 199, 267, 269, 433 capital of, 213, 407, 490 members of, 436, 489 statistics of, 19, 290, 310 and trade unions, 285. See Agriculture — Wholesale Society, 66, 121, 182, 186, 265, 296, 301, 303, 311 Cornwall, 18, 352 Cotton trade, 225 wages in, 50, 52, 61, 157/ women in, 206 Coventrjr Watch Manufacturing- Company, 19, 310 Con-ell, Mr., 50 Craigie, Major, 124, 132, 133,409, 416, 483 Credit, 53, 178, 270, 358, 463, 485 Crises, 31, 93, 212 Crofters, 466, 481, 500, 516 Crompton, 23 Cross, Rt. Hon. Sir R. A. 204 Culture, 274, 297 Cunningham, Mr. David, M.Inst. C.E., 41, 69, 70, 71, 83, 119 Cunningham, Rev. W., 500, 504 Cutlery Manufacturing Co., 19 -nAILY NEWS, 373, 378 ■^ Dale, Mr. D., 147 Death rate, 88, 100, 128, 130, 133, 205 Decorative Co-operators' Asso- ciation, 324 Democracy, 95, 287, 332, 478 Derby, 211 Devizes, 109 Devonshire, 416 Dewsbury, 206 DiLKE, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles W., 1, 64, 71, 81, 172, 208, 24.5, 246, 250, 334, 380, 399, 400, 498, 501- 504 Diminishing return, law of, 189 Dixon, Mi\ Raiito7i, 142 Dock labourers, 80, 92, 100, 347, 373 Domestic education, 274. See also Economj'', Servants DONISTHORPE, Mr. W., 497 Dorsetshire, 9, 277, 377 520 INDEX. DOY Doi/U, Mr., 126 Dressmaker's, 200, 206 Drink-bill, 155, 270, 203 Drwe, Mr., 126 DuYSDALE, Dr. C. R., 130 Dudley Nail Manufacturing Co., 310 Dukes, 453, 472 Dunfermline Linen Manufacturing Co., 19, 310 Dumfriesshire, 381 Dundee, engineers' wages in, 69 — Harbour'^Trust, 41/, 69, 119 — house rents, 515 — population of, 46 — printers' wages, 45 — savings in, 46 Durham, 143, 402, 403 — royalties, 353 Durham Miners, 402, 403 Dyke, Mr. E., 131 115, 127, 134. 152, 157, 173,175, 199, 2u9, 373, 489. See also Un- employed P^nclosures, 108 Engineers, Amalgamated Society of, 69, 247 England, 49, 157, 175, 337 — agriculture in, 124, 135 — last century, 23 — population of, 96, 98, 130 — rate of profit, 1 3, 286 — standard of living, 170 — under Hemy VIII., 25 — work abroad and in, 278 English Land Restoration League, 68 Equity, 274, 298. 462 Essex, 127, 128, 355, 405, 408 EsTCOUKT, Mr., 132 Extravagance, 121, 417 EARLY CLOSING. See Shop Assistants Earnings and interest fund, 194, 195. See Emplo3'ers, Wages Eccles Quilt Manufacturing Co., 19, 310 Economist, The, 7, 177 Economy, domestic, 271. See Poli- tical Ecouom}^ Edinburgh Social Union, 240 Edinburgh Trades Council, 211 Education, 11, 183, 196, 209, 267, — cost of, 123. 222, 274, 303 — domestic, 274 — free, 421. See Technical Educa- tion, Public opinion — of co-operators, 301 Egypt, 154 Ela.stic Web Manufacturing Co., 19, 310 Electroplaters' Trade Protection Society, 246 Elliott, Sir G., 15 Ellis, Mrs., 208 Emerson, 297, 330 Emigration, 129, 154, 229, 242, 421 Employers, agreements with, 298 — combinations of, 179 — concealment by, 171, 177, 333 — expenses of, 146, 291 — gains of, .59, 75, 132. 153, 162, 194, 208, 216, 263, 282, 350 — numbers of, 97 — who have risen, 65, 74 Employment, conditions of, 299 — irregularity of, 37, 69, 80, 92 r APIAN SOCIETY, 120, 399, 403 Fair Trade, 10, 224 f, 243/", 497 Factory Acts, 10, 68. 201, 202, 204, 211, 222 //, 300, 365, 398, 401, 403, 472, 498, 510 Farms, large and small, 362, 394, 409, 414, 416, 434 Farmers, 97, 107, 128, 135, 227, 228, 236, 348, 359, 417, 450. See Agriculture F'asiiions, 176, 242 Fawcett, Prof., 4, 5, 17, 165, 262, 371, 399, 421 Federation des Travailleurs socialistes de france, 473/ Feudalism, 94, 341, 475 Fichte, 2 Fitters' wages, 21, 42, 122 Flax trade, wages, 52 — women in, 206 Flour, 50, 226, 332 Fluctuations in trade, 159, 166, 178, 233, 324 Ford, Mr., 119 Foremen's wages, 59, 172, 182, 353 Fortuif/htli/ Jlcview, 277 Fourier, 457 France, 192, 288, 291, 349, 413, 473 — cost of living in, 142 — peasant proprietorship in, 81, 343, 3.55, 394, 414, 449 — protection in, 76 — trade of, 145, 226 — wages in, 120, 143 — work in. 278, 279. See Paris Freedom, 485 — of contract, 402, 471, 509 INDEX. 521 Freedom of industry, 232. See also State and Indhiduals, Laissez- faire Free Trade, 144, 222, 224 f, 234, 243, 888 Friendly Societies, 1, 55 Fustian, quality of, 70, 78 G ALTON, Mr. F., 389 Gambling, 178, 210, 214, 307 Oarret masters, 328 Geddes, Mr. P., 240 Geneva, 257, 263 George, Mr. H., 56, 123, 344, 349/, 366, 369, 422, 431, 438. 486, 497 Germany, 192, 291, 296, 349 — cost of living in, 143 — protection in, 76, 425 — socialism in, 2, 175, 475 — trade of, 144 — wages in, 120, 142 — work in, 278, 279, 280 OlPFEN, Mr. R., 8, 29, 38, 55, 62, 66, 67, 73, 85, 103, 130, 132, 133, 156, 199. 203, 208, 276 Gladatone, Rt. Hon. W. E., 14, 150 Glasgow, 93, 322, 368, 398, 485 Godin, M., 331 Goffinon, M., 259 Goschen, Rt. Hon. G. J., 498 Government. See State Greening, Mr. E. W., 304 Greenock Chamber of Com- merce, 71 Greenwich Hospital Records, 50, 51, 52 Greenwood, Mr. J., 488 Greg, Mr. W. R., 22, 375 Grey, Mr. Albert, M.P., 330 Greg, Sir George, 377 Guesor, M.. 476 Guise, 330, 490 Guild op Co-operators, 407 Guild op S. Matthew, 123, 413, 495 Gurdon, Mr. J., 406 INC Hat, 245 Havre, 476 Headlam, Rev. S., 123, 413, 495 Health Exhibition, 327 Hearts of Oak Friendly Society, 168 Heath, Mr. F. J., 376 Heath, Rev. H. J. B., 133 Hebden Bridge Fustian Co., 19, 78, 310, 488 Helpers, shipj'ard, 114, 132 Hey, Mr. W. H., 80, 67 Highland Land Law Reform Association, 481 HiNES, Mr. George, 121 HoUdays, 200, 211, 272 Holland, 279, 288 Holmes, Mr. David, 408, 413 Holyoake, Mr., 504 Homes, associated, 271, 294, 331 — interest in, 434 Hope, Mr. Joseph, 212 Hopwood, Mr. C. H., M.P., 511 Horses, 42 Hosiery, 207 — Manufacturing Co., 19, 310 Hospitals, 101, 129, 133 Hotchpot, 420 Hottentots, 279 HOULDSWORTH, Mr. W.H., M.P., 231 Hours of labour, 46, 50, 73, 83, 126, 132, 138, 166, 201, 212, 267, 271, 280, 324, 507 — day of eight, 281. See Shop Assistants House rent, 86, 91, 104, 122, 373, 492, 514 — room, 322 Howell, Mr. G., 90, 119 Hoyle, Mr.. 242 Huddersfield Pattern Wea vers, 208 Hull Tr.\des Council, 332 Hunter, Dr. C 375 Hutchinson, Mr. J. G., 46, 71, 132 Hyndman, Mr., 240 JJALBERT, Mr. W. M., 30 f "" Halifax, 489 Harding, Mr. Stephen, 127, 235, 249 Hargreaves, 23 Harris, Mr. W. J., 221, 243, 247, 248 Harrison, Mr. F., 62, 107, 332, 428, 483, 488, 490, 492, 495 Hart, Miss M. H., 324, 334 IMPOSSIBLISTS, 374 Income, national, 25, 38, 96, 156, 265 — average, 122, 135, 187 — of middle classes, 85 — of working classes, 35, 66, 77, 79, 90, 138, 268, 276 Income tax, 239 — asses.sment, 14, 127 — omissions, 29, 66 — returns, 8, 85, 96, 177 522 INDEX. INC Increment, unearned, 268, 277, 408, 413, 439, 463, 498 India, 130, 235, 337, 356, 407, 409, 439 — work of natives, 278, 279, 280 Individualists, 397, 401, 402, 408, 484, 486/, 492, 497 Intensity of labour, 49, 68, 324, 334, 483 Interdependence of industries, 185 Interest, 178, 350, 360, 368 Inventors, 153, 165, 305 — and monopolies, 269, 423 Inverness, 466 Ipswich, v,-ages in, 122 Ireland, 291, 449 — deterioration of land in, 375 — landlords in, 113, 291, 359, 391, 402, 410, 443, 487, 493 Iron, export of, 145 — import of, 144 — price of, 143, 246 Ironfounders, 52, 67, 122 Iron Moulders, Friendly So- ciety OF, 30, 62, 67 Irreo-ularity. See Employment, Wages Italy, 170 — labour party in, 480 JAMAICA, 494 f) Jarrow, 123 Jeans, Mr. J. S., 5, 6, 22, 119, 132, 148, 172, 278, 279 Jpffcries, Mr., 383 Jerons, Prof. W. S., 5, 16 Joffrin, M., 479 Joiners, 42 Jones, Mr. Benjamin, 66. 265,323, 332 Jones, Mr. Lloyd, 23, 75, 77, 82, 133, 492, 500 JT^A Y, 3Ir. J., 292 Kent, wages in, 120 — agreements in, 299 A'olb, Prof., 35, 38 LABOUR, cost of, 59, 132, 138, 279 — division of, 168, 208 — importation of, 278. See Hours, Intensity. Labour Association, 304 Labourers, agricultural, 107, 124, 126, 197, 409, 416, 469, 490 Labourers, dock, 80, 92, 103, 347 — hours, 46, 126 — numbers of, 99 — standard of living, 88, 121, 127,. 133, 170, 193, 346, 369, 433 — wages, 42, 71, 120, 122, 127, 130, 132. See Agriculture Lacemakers, 206, 398, 405 Laissez-faire, 221, 232, 390, 401, 432^ 461, 492, 499 Lake district, 100 Lancashire, 157, 196, 276, 347, 353,. 489 Land, income from, 25, 322 — laws, 181, 239, 340, 404, 473, 488,. 493 — need of capital on, 269, 289, 407,. 411 — number of occupiers, 97, 410 — original properties of, 366, 441 — re-allottiug of, 386, 472, 494 — State management of, 399, 424,. 448, 462/, 473, 497 — State ownership of, 56, 171, 317, 353, 395, 397, 403, 422, 437/, 475/, 485, 490, 497 — waste, 155, 171, 268, 404. See Increment, Tenure, Farmers Land Law Kefoem League, 170 Land Nationalisation Society, 133, 392, 414 Landowners, abolition of, 395, 397, 400 — absentee, 454, 465 — and farmers, 110, 128, 133, 135, 228, 394, 443, 465, 468 — and houses, 68, 377 — and labourers, 126, 345, 377, 481, 490 — and public, 267, 441, 454 — compensation to, 444 — expenditure of, 340, 364, 367, 410, 413, 441, 446, 484, 498, 500 — peasant, 126, 342 — 'unmitigated,' 422. See Royal- ties Laroche-Joubert, M., 253, 260 Lasalle, 2, 240, 457, 484 Leclairo, M., 324 Leclaire Maison, 18, 253. 254, 335 Leeds, pauperism in 1842, 9, 433 — w\ages in, 51/ Leeds Mercury, 51 Leek Silk Twist Co., 19, 310 Lefevre, Rt. Hon. G. J. Shaw» 486, 488, 498, 501 Leroj^-r.cauliou, M., 196 Lessej)S, M- Ferdinand de, 260 INDEX. 523 Levi, Prof. Leone, .5, 28, 30, '35, 38, 78, 79, 90, 91 )i, 106, 200, 234 Liberty. See Laisi 25, 35, 37, 77, 278 MUNDELLA, lit. Hon. A. J., M.P., 502 MuRCHiE, Mr. J. S., 332, 335 NATION. See Income, State National Agricultural Labourers' Union, 126, 411, 501 Nationalisation, 408, 477, 486, 490, 497. See State Neison, Mr. F. G. P., 64 Newcastle Chemical Company, 167 Newman, Prof. F. W., 392, 408, 452 n New York, 120 New Zealand, 131, 235 Nicholson, Prof. J. Shield, 462, 472, 481, 500, 516 524 INDEX. NIH Nihilism, 457 Norfolk, 125 Normandy, -113 Northampton Productive Co-opera- live Society, li), 310 Northmiiberland, 125, 143, 277, 298 — Duke of, 453 North Yorkshire and Cleve- land Miners' Association, 404 Norway, 141, 28S, 420 Norwood Baptist Chapel, 295 Nottingham, 398 O'CONNOR, Fero-us, 489 Oldham, 61, 433 — Master Cotton Spirmers, Associ- ation, 163 — spinning mills in, 283, 306, 309 Opportunists, 477 Overcrowding, 78, 241, 269, 346, 374, 405, 455, 479 Overproduction, 53, 80, 313, 461, 478 Overtime, 166, 510 Owen, Mr. W., 149, 165 Owen, R., 457 PAINTERS, 42, 327 — work of, at home and abroad, 280 Paisley Manufactui-ing Co., 19, 310 Pall Mall Gazcite, 104, 106, 211 Paris, Bourse, 211 — and Orleans Railway, 18, 253 — commerce, 474 — paviors in, 478 — profit-sharing in, 18, 253, 261 — socialists in, 476 — wages in, 256 Parliament, class interest in, 136, 166, 268, 287, 365, 480 — payment of members, 288 Pasture, 228, 375, 394, 423, 482 Paterson, Mrs. P^mma A., 200, 211, 212, 214 Pauperism, 101, 161, 172,214,319, 381 — cost of, 266, 276, 323 — in 1750, 26 — in 1 842, 9 — increase of, 28 — ratio to population, 6, 7, 89, 130 — under Charles II., 11 Paviors' Corporation, in Paris, 478 I'easant proprietors, SI, 126, 338, 342,363,414, 416, 434, 500 — capital, 385, 415, 449 PRO Peasant farming, 381, 410, 412, 414 — wages, 383, 414, 451 Pettifer, Mr. H. J., 245 Petty, Sir W., 11 Pig iron, 14 Pewsey, Vale of. 111 Philadelphia, 120 Pianoforte makers, 18, 168 Piece work, 114, 125, 163, 169, 202, 252 Pitt, William, 97 Platers, 115, 132 Plumbers, 42 Plutarch, 298 Political Economy, 177, 186, 220, 226, 356, 369, 371, 394, 484 — connexion with morals, 2 — influence of old, 55, 186, 479 — laws of, 158, 189, 220, 230, 233, 236, 243, 249, 263, 282, 304, 354, 401, 402, 408, 497, 498 — terminology and theory, 339 Political Economy Club, 1 Poor Laws, old, 28, 88, 187, 377 Population, 357 — analysis of, 87, 97 — increase of, 6, 86, 135, 188, 322, 371 — migration of, 182, 237, 277, 317, 345, 374, 393 — of Dundee, 46 — pressure of, 130, 409, 495 — rural, 374. Sec Malthusianism Porter, Mr., 9, 50, 51, 103 n Portland, Duke of, 453 — prison, 425 PosiTivisT Society, 215, 323 Post Office, 174, 400 Potter, Mr. G., 423 Preston, 32 Printing, wages, 45, 83 — quality of, 207 Price, Prof. Bonamy, 7 Prices ami wages, 179, 224, 300 — general f.all of, 463 Pringle, John, 402 Prortts, 350 — rate of, 12, 21, 308 — relation to wages, 12, 146, 242 Profit-sliarino:, 17, 58, 152, 159, 253/, 304/; 323/, 483 I'RouRijssivE Association, 132 Proletariat, 476 Proletariat, 470, 484 Property, doctrine of, 350 — effects of private, 354, 423, 485 — personal and real, 408, 439 — rights of, 404, 421, 494 INDEX. 525 PRO I'rotection, 10, ISl, 225/", 234, 236, 244, 289, 417 — in United States, 15, 7(5 — in Germany, 76, 425 — in France, 70. 479 — and trades unions, 246 Prussia, 420 Public Opinion, education of, 219, 460 Pultney, Mr., 2r> Purchasing power, 185. Sr-c Wages, nominal and real QUALITY of goods, 70, 78, 166, 204, 307, 325 — of printing, 207 PADBOURXE, 490 El Radicals, 397 Railway Stock, confiscation of, 424, 497 ' Railways, 189, 295, 367, 397, 402 — and Co-operation, 284 — and State, 283, 484, 486, 497 — Bill, 165 — eight-hours day on, 281 — truce, 301 RatclifEe, 26 Rawson, Sir Raw-son, W., K.C. JI.G. 501. 503 Reciprocity, 231, 236 Religion, 65, 217, 242, 331, 495 Remuneration fund, 194, 251 Rent. 133, 367, 471 — appropriation of, 124, 355, 423 — fixed, 317, 467 — of allotments, 389. See House- rent — shares of, 357 — sliding scale, 246 — theory of, 194, 339, 401 — valued, 359, 467 Rent charge, 422 Residuum, 273, 295, 429 Rheims, 476 Ricardo, 187, 216, 423 Ripon, Marquis of, 407 Riveters, 21, 42, 71 Roberts, Mr. R. D., 297 Robert, M. Charles, 324 Robertson, Mr. Eric, 102 RoberUoH, Mr. E. Stanley, 425 Rochdale, 323, 376, 433 Rogers, Prof. J. E. T., 6, 383, 414 Rousseau, 190 Rowland, Mr. R., 404.416 Rowland, Mr. W., 210 Royalties, 316, 353, 403, 413, 415, 491, 499 RusMn, Mr. John, 88, 272, 295 Russia, 278, 349 n AP.DEX Co-operative Workshop,. S. Etienne, 476 S. Paul, 298 S. Simon, 457 Salisbury, 133 Sanitary regulation, 184 Sanitary Record, 102 Saturdays, 510, 512 Saunders, Mr. W., 68, 107 120 124, 127, 128, 13.3, 13.5, 378, 405 "" Savings Banks, 8, 34, 46, 55, 80, 83 165,347 Sa\\yers' wages, 42 Schulze-Delitsch, 13 Scotch Railway Servants, 21'' Scotland, 276 — Highlands of, 410, 413, 447 464, 473, 481 — landlords in, 11.3, 340, 360,367 394 — wages in, 143, 148, 168 Scott Burn, Mr. R., 375 Scottish Land Restoration League, 311, 368 Seamen, 67, 71, 82 Seamstresses, 206 Sedgwick, Mr. G., 208 Senior, Mr. N., 26, 37 Servants, domestic, 85 n, 96, 199, 207 Sewing Machine (Singer) Factory 72 Shaftesburj-, Lord, 10 Sliakspere, 427, 439 Shaw, Mr. G. B., 399. 404 Sheffield Cutlery Co-operative Society, 310 Shell-plate.s, 115 Shipping, tonnage of, 15, 67 — Bill, 165 — trade, 247, 248 Sliipbuilding, wages in, 21, 114/" 140 — tonnage of, 321 Shoddy, 208 Shoemakers, 162, 207, 209, 377, 405 Shopkeepers, 98, 99, 345, 367, 377 Shop assistants, 507 Shop Hours League, .507 Sickness, 30, 91, 101, 200, 433 Siemens, Sir W., 423 Silk trade. 103, 225 — women in, 206 526 INDEX. SIM SiMCOX, Miss E., 85, 120, ll^:? Sinclair, Si)' J., 25 Sitimondi, 75 Slaffff, iMr. J., M.P., 296 Slaveiy, 485, 494 Sliding scale for wages, 33, 14 7 — for rent, 246 Smih-g, Dr., 18, 36 Smith, Adam, 75,216,368 Smith, M. Adolphe, 473 Smiths, wages of, 122 Snow, Mr. William, 132, 148 Social Democratic Federation, 69. 79, 242, 397, 481, 483, 488, 490 Socialism, 160, 173, 217, 243, 337, :j97, 401, 413, 425, 431, 475 Society for Promoting Industrial Villages, 184, 406 Soda, manufacture of, 139/, 167 Soil, original properties of, 366, 441 Solly, Rev. H., 405 Spain, 356 — workman's party in, 480 SpcctaUir, The, 38 Speculation, 53, 178, 197, 211, 212, 214, 307. See Gambling Sperice, Thvma-t, 438 Spencer, Mr. Herbert, 221, 403 Spinners' (cotton) wages, 50, 52, 60 — work at home and abroad, 278 — (woollen) wages, 52 Staffordshire, 133 Stapleton, Mr. J. Glode, 120 Starvation, 93, 103, 108, 113, 242, 266, 313, 372 State, 426 — and children, 273 — and emigration, 154, 229, 242 — and housing of the poor, 183, 242, 293, 337, 464, 479 — and individuals, 3,131, 155,220, 232,390, 398, 401, 402, 404, 431, 486, 498, 500 — and insurance, 319 — and management of industry, ]60, 164, 174, 399, 424, 473/, 485, 497 — and railways, 212, 283 — and statistics, 7, 81, 124, 1 71, 282, 504 — and technical education, 296 — and trades unions, 223. See also Lard Statistics of age, 205, 207 — defectiveness of, 29, 34, 35, 39, 77, 90,126, 132,134, 430 — in America, 8, 81, 124, 171, 504 — in England, 7, 81, 124, 1 71, 282 TEA Statistics of employment, 30, 175 — of trade, 225, 234, 243, 321 — value of, 124, 134, 504 Statistical Society, 1, 62, 103, 119, 279, 504 Statistical Bureau of Berne, 142 Statistical Society op Ireland, 74 Steel rails, 14, 144 Stock Exchange, 211 Stockport, 9, 511 Strachan, Mr. W. J., 332, 335 Strikes, 16, 32, 147, 152, 163, 223, 333, 397, 474, 507 StitbbK, Rer. C. W., 382 Suez Canal Co., 260 Sidlivan, Mr., 375 Sunday, 272, 294, 510, 512 Surrey, 100 Sweating, 205, 209,211 Switzerland, 142, 255,263, 296, 420, 434,451, 481 Si/moiulK, Jfr. 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History of Angus or Forfarshire, its Land and People, Descriptive and Historical, illustrated with maps, facsimiles, &c. , 5 vols, 4to, cloth (published to subscribers only at £2. 17s 6d), £\ 17s 6d. Dundee. Sold separately, vol 2, 3s 6d ; vol 3, 3s 6d ; vols 4 and 5, 7s 6d ; vol 5, 3s 6d. A most useful Work of Reference. Wilsoti's Gazetteer of Scotland, demy 8vo (473 pp.); cloth gilt (pub 7s 6d), 3s. W. & A. K. Johnston. This work embraces every town and village in the country of any importance as existing at the present day, and is portable in form and very moderate in price. In addition to the usual information as to towns and places, the work gives the statistics of real property, notices of public works, public buildings, churches, schools, &c., whilst the natural history and historical incidents con- nected with particular localities have not been omitted. 'I'he Scotsman says : — " It entirely provides for a want which has been greatly felt." Youftger (John, shoemaker, St Boswells, Author of " River Angling for Salmon and Trout ^^ " Com Law Phyines," &^e.) — Autobiography, with portrait, crown Svo (457 pages), cloth (pub 7s 6d), 2s. " 'The shoemaker of ,St Boswells,' as he was designated in all parts of Scot- land, was an excellent prose writer, a respectable poet, a marvellously gifted man in conversation. His life will be read with great interest ; the simple heart- stirring narrative of the life-struggle of a highly-gifted, humble, and honest mechanic, — a life of care, but also a life of virtue." — London Review. Sent Carriage Free to a?iy part of the United Kingdom on receipt of Postal Order for the amount. JOH:^ grant, 25 & 34 George IV. Bridge, Edinbargh. 2^ & 24 George IV. Bridge, Edinburgh. 9 Grampian Club Publications, of valuable MSS. and Works of Original Research in Scottish. History, Privately printed for the Members : — The Diocesan Registers of Glasgow — Liber ProtocoUorum M. Cuthberti Siraonis, notarii et scribte capituli Glasguensis, a.d. 1499-1513; also, Rental Book of the Diocese of Glasgow, A.D. 1509-1570, edited by Joseph Bain and the Rev. Dr Charles Rogers, with facsimiles, 2 vols, 8vo, cl, 1S75 (pub £,z 2s), 7s 6d. Rental Book of the Cistercian Abbey of Coupar-Angus, ivitk the Breviary of the Register, edited by the Rev. Dr Charles Rogers, with facsimiles of MSS., 2 vols, Svo, cloth, 1S79-S0 (pub ^2 I2S 6d), los 6d. The same, vol II., comprising the Register of Tacks of the Abbey of Cupar, Rental of St Marie's Monastery, and Appendix, Svo, cloth (pub f\ is), 3s 6d. Estimate of the Scottish N'obility during the Minority of fames VI., edited, with an Introduction, from the original MS. in the Public Record Office, by Dr Charles Rogers, Svo, cloth (pub los 6d), IS. 6d. The reprint of a manuscript discovered in the Public Record Office. The details are extremely curious. Genealogical Memoirs of the Families of Colt and Coutts, by Dr Charles Rogers, Svo, cloth (pub los 6d), 2s 6d. An old Scottish family, including the eminent bankers of that name, the Baroness Burdett-Coutts, &c. Rogers' {Dr Charles) Memorials of the Earl of Stirling and of the House of Alexander, portraits, 2 vols, Svo, cloth (pub £Z 3s), los 6d. Edinburgh, 1S77. This work embraces not only a history of Sir William Alexander, first Earl of Stirling, but also a genealogical account of the family of Alexander in all its branches ; many interesting historical details connected with Scottish State affairs in the seventeenth century ; also with the colonisation of America. Sent Carriage Free to any part of the United Ki?igdo?n on receipt of Postal Order for the amount. JOM GRAI^T, 25 & 34 aeorge lY. Eridge, Edinbnrgli. JoJui Grants Booksellei-, Histories of Scotland, complete set in 10 vols for £3 3s. This grand national scries of the Early Chronicles of Scotland, edited by the most eminent Scottish antiquarian scholars of the present day, is now completed, and as sets are becoming few in number, early application is necessary in order to secure them at the reduced price. The Series comprises : — Scoticronicon of JoJm de Fordim, from the Contemporary MS. (if not the author's autograph) at the end of the Fourteenth Century, preserved in the Library of \\'olfenbuttel, in the Duchy of Brunswick, collated with other known M.S.S. of the original chronicle, edited by W. F. Skene, LL. D., Historiographer-Royal, 2 vols (pub 30s), not sold separately. The Metrical Chivnide of Andretv Wyntoitn, Prior of St Serfs Inch at Lochleven, who died about 1426, the work now printed entire for the first time, from the Royal MS. in the British Museum, collated with other MSS., edited by the late D. Laing, LL. D., 3 vols (pub 50s), vols i and 2 not sold separately. Vol 3 sold separately (pub 21s), los 6d. Li%'es of Saint AUnian a fid St Kejiiigern, compiled in the I2th century, and edited from the best M.SS. by the late A. P. Forbes, D.C.L., Bishop of Brechin (pub 15s), not sold separately. Life of Saint Columba, founder of Hy, written by Adamnan, ninth Abbot of that Monastery, edited by Wm. Reeves, D.D., M.R.LA., translated by the late A. P. Forbes, D.C.L., Bishop of Brechin, with Notes arranged by W. F. Skene, LL.D. (pub 15s), not sold separately. The Book of Fiuscarden, being unpublished Continuation of Fordun's Chronicle by M. Buchanan, Treasurer to the Dauphi- ness of France, edited and translated by Skene, 2 vols (pub 30s), I2S 6d, sold separately. A Critical Essay o?i the Ancient LiJiabiiants of Scotland, by Thomas Innes of the Sorbonne, with Memoir of the Author by George Grubb, LL.D., and Appendix of Original Documents by Wm. F. Skene, LL.D., illustrated with charts (pub 21s), los 6d, sold separately In connection with the .Society of Antiquaries of Scotland, a uniform series of the Historians of Scotland, accompanied by English translations, and illustrated by notes, critical and explanatory, was commenced some years since and has recently been finished. So much has recently been done for the history of Scotland, that the necessity for a more critical edition of the earlier historians has become very apparent. The history of Scotland, prior to the 15th century, must always be based to a great extent upon the work of Kordun ; but his original text has been made the basis of continuations, and has been largely altered and interpolated by his con- tinuators, whose statements are ui'.ually quoted as if they belonged to the original work of Kordun. An edition discriminating between the original text of Fordun and the additions and alterations of his continuators, and at the same time trac- ing out the sources of Fordun's narrative, would obviously be of great importance to the right understanding of Scottish history. The complete set forms ten handsome volumes, demy 8vo, illustrated with facsimiles. Sent Carriage Free to a7ty part of the United Kingdom on receipt of Postal Order for the anioimt. JOHC^ GRANT. 25 & 34 Geoiffe IV. Brifl^e. EclinbiirfflL 2S o>' 34 George IV. Bridge, Edinburgh. Campbell {Colin, Loid Clyde)— Life of, illustrated by Extracts from his Diary and Correspondence, by Lieut. -Gen. Shad well, C.B., with portrait, maps, and plans, 2 vols, 8vo, cloth (pub 36s), 6s 6d. Blackwood & Sons. "In all the annals of ' Self-Help,' there is not to be found a life more truly worthy of study than that of the gallant old soldier. The simple, self-denying, friend-helpmg, brave, patriotic soldier stands proclaimed in every line of General Shad well's admirable memoir." — Blackwood's Magazine. De IVitfs {John, Graiid Fetisionary of Holland) Life : or, Tiventy Years of a Parliaincjitary Republic, by M. A. Pon- tahs, translated by S. E. Stephenson, 2 vols, 8vo, cloth (pub 36s), 6s 6d. Longman. Uniform with the favourite editions cf Motley's " Netherlands" and "John of Barn veld," &c. Johnson {Doctor) : His Friends and his Critics, by George Birkbeck Hill, D.C.L., crown Svo, cloth (pub Ss), 2s. Smith, Elder, & Co. "The public now reaps the advantage of Dr Hill's researches in a most readable volume. Seldom has a pleasanter commentary been written on a literary masterpiece. . . . Throughout the author of this pleasant volume has spared no pains to enable the present generation to realise more completely the sphere in which Johnson talked and taught." — Saturday Reznc-.ii. Matheivs {Charles James, the Actor) — Life of, chiefly Autobiographical, with Selections from his Correspondence and Speeches, edited by Charles Dickens, portraits, 2 vols, Svo, cloth (pub 25s), 5s. Macmillan, 1879. " The book is a charming one from first to last, and Mr Dickens deserves a full measure of credit for the care and discrimination he has exercised in the business of editing." — Globe. Brazil a?id Java — The Coffee Culture in America, Asia, and Africa, by C. F. Van Delden Lavine, illustrated with numerous plates, maps, and diagrams, thick Svo, cloth (pub 25s), 3s 6d. Allen. A useful work to those interested in the production of coffee. The author was charged with a special mission to Brazil on behalf of the coftee culture and coffee commerce in the Dutch possessions in India. Smith {Captain John, 1579-1631)— 77/^ents of the Fhilosophy of the Human Mind ^ vol. Svo, cloth (pub £1 16.S), Ss 6d - ^ '/■'/, o ^ 01b, '^'t':i!i^'' ""'''"' ^"^'^"' ^ ^■°^^' Svo, cloth (pub ^^Mf^'-^^'^'''''^^^'"''"'"'' -^ ^'°^^' S^-°' ^l°th (pub editor of the works of hspredecesors''^^ %t''' t' "^\?°"ector and mute—The Divina Commedia, translated into En-lish cannot refrain from acknowledging the'^ant tond n, r^-^^'^^T^'^f ^^''^V- '^Ve at, on, and his labour of love will^not have^efn in ^^at h' hi f '^^^ord■s trans- those who enjoy true poetry to studvonrp mnr!. ,k ' ■ '^ ^l^'^ to induce from whence -the great founders of English Doetr^,T''"^''P''"u°^'''^' literature ness and power."-.^i'/,,v/^„„" l-n,hsh poeto' drew so much of their sweet- Po/ioh's {Robert) The Course of Time, a Poem be-iuti "^^'.S^J^S^-^ -^ --reus illus^:; A V..1C s -"i :r /' ""'"H"=^'- 'ronitfie commencement to 4 %ols, Svo, cloth (pub ^i los), los 6d. T & T Clarl \ ols. I 3, 4, separately, 2s each. wants of the present-day student of rheHiblehvff '.",^°'^