f 
 
i 
 
 DOCUMENTS 
 Pi PT. 
 
I 
 
DEBATES 
 
 PEOCEEDINaS 
 
 OF THE 
 
 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 
 
 FOB THE 
 
 TERRITORY OF MINiNESOTA, 
 
 n 
 
 TO FORM A STATE CONSTITUTION PREPARATORY TO ITS ADMISSION INTO 
 - THE UNION AS A STATE. 
 
 X. F. ANDREWS, Official Reporter to the Conventioa. 
 
 SAINT PAUL: 
 GEORGE W. MOORE, PRINTER. 
 
 JONNESOTIAN OFFICE. 
 1858. 
 
Jf<6> /3 6- 
 /I2. 
 
 OEpr. • 
 
THE ENABLING ACT. 
 
 An Act to Authokize the People of Min- 
 nesota TO FORM A Constitution and State 
 Government, Pbepakatory to their Ad- 
 mission into the Union on an equal 
 footing with the Original States. 
 Be it enacted hy th^ Senate and Rouse of 
 Bepresentatives of the United States of Ameri- 
 ca in Congress assembled: That the inhabi- 
 tants of that portion of the Territory of 
 Minnesota which is embraced within the fol- 
 lowing limits, to wit : Beginning at the point 
 in the center of the main channel of the Red 
 River of the North, where the boundary line 
 between the United States and the British 
 Possessions crosses the same ; thence up the 
 main channel of said river to that of the Bois 
 des Sioux River ; thence up the main channel 
 of said river to L,ake Travers ; thence up the 
 center of said lake to the southern extremity 
 thereof; thence in a direct line to the head of 
 Big Stone Lake ; thence through its center to 
 its outlet ; thence by a due south line to the 
 north line of the State of Iowa ; thence along 
 the northern boundary of said State to the 
 main channel of the Mississippi River; thence 
 up the main channel of said river, and follow- 
 ing the boundary line of the State of Wiscon- 
 sin, until the same intersects the Saint Louis 
 River ; thence down the said river to and 
 through Lake Superior on the boundary line 
 of Wisconsin and Michigan, until it intersects 
 the dividing line between the United States 
 and the British Possessions ; thence up Pigeon 
 River, and following said dividing line to the 
 place of beginning, be, and they are hereby, 
 authorized to form for themselves a Constitu- 
 tion and State Government, by the name of 
 the State of Minnesota, and to come into the 
 Union on an equal footing with the original 
 States, according to the Federal Constitutioa. 
 
 Sec. 2. A7id he it further enacted, That 
 the State of Minnesota shall have concurrent 
 jurisdiction on the Mississippi and all other 
 rivers and waters bordering on the said State 
 of Minnesota, so far as the same shall form a 
 common boundary to said State, and any 
 State or States now or hereafter to be formed 
 or bounded by the same ; and said river and 
 waters leading into the same, shall be common 
 highways, and forever free, as well to the in- 
 habitants of said State as to all other citizens 
 of the United States, without any tax, duty, 
 impost or toll therefor. 
 
 Sec. 3. And he it further enacted. That 
 on the first Monday in June next, the legal 
 voters in each Representative District, then 
 existing within the limits of the proposed 
 State, are hereby authorized to elect two 
 Delegates for each Representative to which 
 said District may be entitled according to the 
 apportionment for Representatives to the Ter- 
 ritorial Legislature, which election for Dele- 
 gates shall be held and conducted, and the 
 returns made, in all respects in conformity 
 with the laws of said Temtory regulating the 
 election of Representatives; and the Dele- 
 gates so elected shall assemble at the Capitol 
 of said Territory, on the second Monday in 
 July next, and first determine, by a vote, 
 whether it is the wish of the people of the 
 proposed State to be admitted into the Union 
 at that time ; and if so, shall proceed to form 
 a Constitution, and take all necessary steps 
 for the establishment of a State Government, 
 in confora.ity with the Federal Constitution, 
 subject to the approval and ratification of the 
 people of the proposed State. 
 
 Sec. 4. And he it further enacted. That 
 in the event said Convention shall decide in 
 favor of the immediate admission of the pro- 
 
 M12599 
 
EI^ABLING ACT. 
 
 posed State into the Union, it shall be the 
 duty of the United States Marshal for said 
 Territory to proceed to take a census or enu- 
 meration of the inhabitants within the limits 
 of the proposed State, under such rules and 
 regulations as shall be prescribed by the 
 Secretary of the Interior, with the view of 
 ascertaining the number of Representatives 
 to which said State may be entitled in the 
 Congress of the United States ; and said State 
 shall be entitled to one Representative and 
 such additional Representatives as the popu- 
 lation of the Sfate shall, according to the 
 census, show it would be entitled to according 
 to the present ratio of representation. 
 
 Sec. 5. And be it further enacted. That 
 the following propositions be, and the same 
 are hereby, offered to the said Convention of 
 the people of Minnesota for their free accept- 
 ance or rpjection, which, if accepted by the 
 Convention, shall be obligatory on the United 
 States and upon the said State of Minnesota, 
 to wit : 
 
 First, That sections numbered sixteen and 
 thirty-six in every township of public lands 
 in said State, and where either of said sec- 
 tions, or any part thereof, has been sold or 
 otherwise been disposed of, other lands, equiv- 
 alent thereto and as contiguous as may be, 
 shall be granted to said State for the use of 
 schools. 
 
 Second, That twenty-two sections of land 
 shall be set apart and reserved for the use 
 and support of a State University, to be se- 
 lected by the Governor of said State, subject 
 to the approval of the Commissioner at the 
 General Land Office, and to be appropriated 
 and applied in such manner as the Legislature 
 of said State may prescribe for the purpose 
 aforesaid, but for no other purpose. 
 
 Third, That ten entire sections of land, to 
 be selected by the Governor of said State, in 
 legal subdivisions, shall be granted to said 
 
 State for the purpose of completing the public 
 buildings, or for the erection of others at the 
 seat of Government, under the direction of 
 the Legislature thereof. 
 
 Fourth, That all salt springs within said 
 State, not exceeding twelve in number, with 
 six sections of land adjoining, or as contiguous 
 as may be to each, shall be granted to said 
 State for its use ; the same to be selected by 
 the Governor thereof, within one year after 
 the admission of said State, and when so se- 
 lected, to be used or disposed of on such 
 terms, conditions and regulations as the Leg- 
 islature shall direct: Provided, That no salt 
 spring or Jand, the right whereof is now vested 
 in any individual or individuals, or which may 
 be hereafter confirmed or adjudged to any 
 individuals, shall, by this article, be granted 
 to said State. 
 
 Fifth, That five per centum of the net 
 proceeds of sales of all public lands lying 
 within said State, which shall be sold by Con- 
 gress after the admission of said State into the 
 Union, after deducting all the expenses inci- 
 dent to the same, shall be paid to said State 
 for the purpose of making public roads and 
 internal improvements, as the Legislature 
 shall direct ; Provided, the foregoing proposi- 
 tions herein offered are on the condition that 
 the said Convention which shall form the 
 Constitution of said State shall provide by a 
 clause in said Constitution, or an ordinance, 
 irrevocable without the consent of the United 
 States, that said State shall never interfere 
 with the primary disposal of the soil within 
 the same, by the United States, or with any 
 regulations Congress may find necessary for 
 securing the title in said soil to bonajide pur- 
 chasers thereof; and that no tax shall be 
 imposed on lands belonging to the United 
 States, and that in no case shall non-resi- 
 dent proprietors be taxed higher than resi- 
 dents. 
 
TEREITORIAL ACT. 
 
 An Act to Provide for the Payment of the 
 Expenses of the Convention to form a 
 Constitution for the State of Minnesota, 
 in accordance with an act of con- 
 GRESS, APPROVED March 3, 1857. 
 Be it enacted hy the Legislative Asseiribly of 
 the Tei-ritory of Minnesota : 
 Section 1. That on the first Monday of 
 June next, the qualified electors of the Ter- 
 ritory of Minnesota, shall assemble at their 
 respective places appointed by law for the 
 opening of the polls, and shall there proceed 
 to elect by ballot, certain Delegates for a Con- 
 vention to form a Constitution and State 
 Government for this Territory. 
 
 Sec 2. Every Council District in this 
 Territory shall elect two Delegates for every 
 Councillor it may be entitled to in the Legis- 
 lative Council, and every Representative 
 District shall elect two Delegates for every 
 member they may be entitled to in the House 
 of Representatives ; Provided, That whenever 
 any District has been sub-divided in order to 
 elect their Representative in the Legislative 
 Assembly, the same sub-divison shall govern 
 in the election of Delegates to the Constitu- 
 tional Convention. 
 
 Sec. 3. That there be appropriated, out 
 
 of any money in the Territorial Treasury, 
 unappropriated, for mileage and per diem of 
 members, officers, and secretaries, and for 
 istationery, the sum of thirty thousand dol- 
 lars. 
 
 Sec 4. That the members, officers, and 
 secretaries of said Convention shall be enti- 
 tled to the same mileage and per diem as 
 members of the Legislative Assembly ; Pro- 
 tided, That the presiding officer shall be 
 entitled to three dollars per day extra. 
 
 Sec 5. The compensation herein provided 
 for the members, officers, and secretaries, 
 shall be certified by the presidirtg officer, and 
 attested by the Secretary, as well as all claims 
 for stationary, printing, and all other incident- 
 al expenses, which, said certificates, when so 
 certified, shall be sufficient evidence to the 
 Territorial Treasurer of each persons claim. 
 
 Sec 6. The qualifications of Delegates to 
 the Constitutional Convention shall be the 
 same as the qualifications for members of the 
 House of Representatives or the Legislative 
 Assembly. 
 
 Sec 7. This Act shall be in force from 
 and after its passage. 
 
 Approved May twenty-third, one thousand 
 eight hundred and fifty-seven. 
 
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INDEX. 
 
 99 
 
 583 
 
 Absence of Members — 
 
 Committee on leave of, appointed, 
 Absent Members — 
 
 To be permitted to sign the constitution 
 Act— ^ 
 Enabling act of Congress, - Z 
 
 Of the Territorial Legislature authorizing 
 the election of convention to form a con- 
 stitution, - - 5, 451 
 Adjournment — 
 Motions for, over Saturday, - 64, 98 
 Resolution for, sine die, - - 197 
 " laid on the table, - 219 
 " for, sine die, - - 400 
 " laid on the table, - 411 
 " taken up and adopted, - 438 
 " reconsidered, and laid on the 
 table, - - - - 497 
 Sine die, ... 595 
 
 Aldbich, Cyrus, (delegate from Hennepin,) — 
 Appointed a member of the committee on 
 
 credentials, ... 9 
 
 Wish of the people to become a State, re- 
 marks on, ... 12 
 Resolution to admit Mr. Sheldok to a seat, 
 
 remarks on, - - - 29 
 
 Appointed chairman of the committee on 
 
 the executive department, - 68 
 
 Appointed a member of the committee on 
 
 banks, .... 53 
 
 Appointed chairman of the committee on 
 
 supplies and expenditures, - 63 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, remarks on 
 
 the report of the committee on, - 110 
 The Executive Department, remarks on the 
 
 report of the committee on, - 129 
 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, re- 
 marks on the report of the committee on, 247 
 County and township organization, remarks 
 
 on the report of the committee on, - 262 
 Appointed a member of the compromise 
 
 committee, ... 411 
 
 Resolution relative to auditing the accounts 
 
 of the official reporter, offered by, • 586 
 Resolution relative to auditing the accounts 
 
 of Owens & Moore, offered by, . 586 
 
 Aldrich, Cyrus, (delegate from Hennepin,) — 
 Resolution of thanks to the President and 
 
 officers of the convention, - 587 
 
 Resolution relative to the expenses of the 
 convention, ... 5S7 
 
 Amendment of the Constitution — 
 Committee on, ordered, - - - 36 
 
 " appointed, - - 68 
 
 Resolution relative to the mode of organiz- 
 ing representative bodies, referred to 
 committee on, - - - 84 
 
 Committee on, reported, - - 307 
 
 Report of committee on, taken up in com- 
 mittee of the whole, - - 387 
 Report of committee on, ordered engrossed, 390 
 " read a third time and adopted, - 539 
 Anderson, Jno. A., (dele^tefrom Houston) — 
 Appointed member of the committee on the 
 
 Legislative Department, - - 63 
 
 Appointed member of the committee on ar- 
 rangement and phraseology, - 68 
 Andrews, T. F., — 
 Employed by committee on reporting, - 66 
 Resolution relative to payment of, - 636 
 Appent)IX — 
 Organic Act of the Territory, - 599-604 
 Constitution of the State, - - 605-19 
 Vote of the people on the constitution, - 620 
 Analytical index to the constitution, - 621-4 
 Arrangement and Phraseology — 
 Committee on, ordered, - - 36 
 " appointed, - - 68 
 Assault on Mr. Wilson — 
 Report of the committee of conference, sta- 
 ting the, .... 554 
 Resolution of Mr. Geeeish, relative to, - 554 
 Remarks of Mr. Wilson, relative to, - 560-5 
 
 Assessment of Damages — 
 Amendment to the report on Bill of Rights 
 relative to, in taking private property for 
 public use, ... 179 
 
 Amendment rejected, - - - 189 
 
 Assistant Secretary — 
 J. Q. A. Waed elected, pro tem, - 9 
 
 " " permanently, 10 
 
 Extra pay voted to, - 589 
 
INDEX. 
 
 AUTHENTICATIOJf OF CONSTITUTION — 
 Resolution of Mr. Colbuen for the, - 585 
 " " Kemp. " - 585 
 
 Ater, Frederick, (delegate from Morrison,) — • 
 Appointed member of the committee on the 
 
 Legislative Department, - - 68 
 
 Appointed member of committee on real and 
 personal estate and the rights of married 
 women, - - 68 
 
 Leave of absence granted to, - 493 
 
 Babcock, L. a. — 
 
 Elected Secretary pro tern of the Conven- 
 tion, ----- 9 
 
 Elected permanent Secretary, - - 10 
 
 Communicates proceedings relative to com- 
 promise, . - - - 496 
 
 Extra compensation voted to, - - 565 
 
 Balcombe, St. A. D. (delegate from "Winona) 
 
 Elected President of the Convention, - 10 
 
 Remarks on accepting the same, - 10 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, remarks on 100 
 
 Resolution recommending the people to 
 hold a series of meetings offered by, 108 
 
 The designs of the Administration Leaders 
 speech on, - . . 115-27 
 
 The Executive Department, remarks on 130 
 
 Exemption of Real Estate and the rights of 
 Married Women, remarks on, - 150 
 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, re- 
 marks on, ... 231, 241 
 
 County and Township organizations, re- 
 marks on, ... 264 
 
 State Officers other than Executive, remarks 
 on, - ... - 284 
 
 Banks, remarks on, - - 312 
 
 Impeachment and removal from office, re- 
 marks on, - - - 333 
 
 Striking out the word " white," remarks 
 on, - - - - 343 
 
 Amendments to the Constitution, remarks 
 on, - - - - 388 
 
 Civilized persons of Indian descent, their 
 right to vote, remarks on, - 395 
 
 Proposition to submit the question of Boun- 
 dary to the people, remarks on, - 431 
 
 Finance, Taxation and Public Debt, remarks 
 on, - - - - 464 
 
 University of Minnesota, remarks on the 
 location of, and distribution of the fund 
 of, - - - - 478 
 
 Remarks on the report of the committee on 
 Miscellaneous Provisions, - 543 
 
 Regent^ of the University, remarks on the 
 proposition to elect by the people, 547 
 
 Remarks on the final adjournment, - 596 
 Baldwin, B. C. (delegate from Wabashaw) — 
 
 Appointed a member of the committee on 
 County and Township Organization, 68 
 
 Appointed a member of the committee on 
 Educational Institutions and Interests 68 
 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, re- 
 marks on, ... 281 
 
 I Banks, &c., — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, 
 
 " " appointed. 
 
 Reports of committee on, 
 Consideration of report. 
 Report ordered engrossed. 
 
 - 35- 
 
 68 
 
 87, 307 
 
 141, 308 
 
 333 
 
 " read a third time and adopted, 504 
 
 Bartholomew, R. L. (delegate from Hen- 
 nepin) — 
 Appointed a member of the committee on 
 
 Elections and Credentials, - 68 
 
 Speech on the organization of the Militia 
 System, - - - 458-68 
 
 Bates, E. N. (delegate from Hennepin) — 
 
 Appointed a member of the committee on 
 Banks, &c., - - - 68 
 
 Appointed a member of the committee on 
 Arrangement and Phraseology, - 68 
 
 Executive Department, remarks on - 130 
 
 Banking, and Corporations other than Mu- 
 nicipal, remarks on, - - 141, 319 
 
 Exemption of Real Estate and the Rights of 
 Married Women, remarks on, - 150 
 
 Amendment to report on Preamble and Bill 
 of Rights, relative to assessment of dama- 
 ges in taking private property for public 
 uses, remarks thereon, - 174 
 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, re- 
 marks on, - - - 237 
 
 Elective Franchise, remarks on, - 383 
 
 University of Minnesota, remarks on the lo- 
 cation and distribution of the fund of, 485 
 
 Remarks on reconsidering the vote whereby 
 an article relative to the University was 
 adopted, - - - 50O 
 
 Billings, H. A. (delegate from Fillmore) — 
 Wish of the people to become a State, re- 
 marks on, - , - - 17 
 Resolution of invitation to Delegates to pre- 
 sent their credentials, remarks on, 61 
 Appointed chairman of the committee on 
 
 State Officers other than executive, 68 
 
 Appointed a member of the Judiciary com- 
 mittee, - - - 68 
 Limitation of discussion, remarks on, 72 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, remarks on. 111, 96 
 Executive Department, remarks on, 136 
 State Seal and Coat of Arms, appointed 
 
 chairman of committee on, - 182 
 
 Legislative Department, remarks on, 207 
 
 County and Township Organization, re- 
 marks on, ... 259 
 State Officers, other than executive, re- 
 marks on, ... 282 
 Civilized persons of Indian descent, remarks 
 on proposition to extend the elective fran- 
 chise to, - - - 895 
 Remarks on report of the committee on 
 
 State Seal and Coat of Arms, 412, 518 
 
 Finance, Taxation and Public Debt, re- 
 marks on, - - - 464 
 
INDEX. 
 
 Billings, H. A. (delegate from Fillmore) — 
 
 Remarks on amendment to report of the 
 committee on Public Property, relative to 
 common highways, - - 476 
 
 University of Minnesota, remarks on the 
 location and distribution of fund of, 478 
 
 Elective Franchise, remarks on the final 
 adoption of the report of the committee 
 on . . . .641 
 
 Report of the Compromise committee, re- 
 marks on, . . . 579 
 
 Resolution relative to mileage of members, 
 ofiered by, . . . 584 
 
 BoLLEs, Thos. (delegate from Rice) — 
 
 Salaries, appomted a member of committee 
 
 on. 
 
 68 
 
 Banking and Corporations other than Mu- 
 nicipal, appointed a member of commit- 
 mittee on . . .68 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rrights, remarks on 
 
 report of committee on, . . 96 
 
 Proposes a substitute for, . . 153 
 
 Banking, &c., remarks on . . 141 
 
 Punishment of Crimes, remarks on, . 147 
 
 Exemption of real and personal estate, re- 
 marks on, - - 149 
 The rights of married women, remarks on, 174 
 Liquor licenses, submits a proposition for- 
 ever prohibiting, - . 175 
 State seal and coat of arms, appointed a 
 
 member of committee on, - - 182 
 
 Capital punishment, remarks on, - 190 
 
 Educational institutions and interests, re- 
 marks on, - - 233, 242 
 Remarks on printing boundary resolution, 444 
 Militia organization, remarks on, - 456 
 Remarks on the State seal and coat of arms, 518 
 Remarks on the adoption of the report of 
 the committee on election franchise, - 542 
 Books for Members — 
 Proposition submitted for, - 81 
 
 — debate and rejection of, - - 82 
 Boundaries — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, - - 35 
 
 " appointed - - 68 
 
 Report of committee on, - . 88 
 
 — taken up in committee of the whole, - 221 
 Proposition of Mr. Davis, - - 408 
 Letter from W. C. Dodge, - - 452 
 Proceedings of meeting at St. Peter, - 453 
 Report read a third time and adopted, - 558 
 
 BcTLEB, A. H., (delegate from Fillmore,) — 
 Punishment of crimes, appointed a member 
 
 of.the committee on, . . gg 
 
 Supplies and expenditures, appointed a 
 
 member of the committee on, - 68 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, remarks on, 101 
 
 Remarks on the report of the committee on 
 
 miscellaneous provisions, - 551 
 
 Call of the House — 
 
 Ordered, - 34, 249, 325, 493, 497, 
 
 [501, 507, 539, 558 
 
 Capital Punishment — 
 Proposition of Mr. Bolles to prevent the 
 
 enacting of any law for prohibiting, - 189 
 Substitute of Mr. Maxtor for, - 190 
 
 — Proposition and substitute lost. - 191 
 Cederstam, p. a., (delegate from Chisago,) — 
 
 Elective Franchise, appointed chairman of 
 the committee on, - - 68 
 
 County and township organization, appoint- 
 ed a member of the committee on, - 68 
 
 Granted leave of absence, - - 182 
 
 Census of the Territory — 
 
 Resolutions and remarks in reference to, 26, 27 
 
 Resolution to wait upon U. S. Marshal, - 65 
 
 — laid over under the rules, - 66 
 
 — taken up, - - 67 
 
 — laid on the table and made the special 
 order, - - 68 
 
 — taken up and disagreed to, - 71 
 Resolution of Mr. Perkins in reference to, 74 
 
 — discussed and laid on the table, - 81 
 Chase, 0. L., (Secretary of the Territory,) — 
 
 Demands the use of the Hall, - 28 
 
 Cleghorn, John, (delegate from Fillmore,) — 
 State officers other than executive, appoint- 
 ed a member of committee on, - 68 
 
 — Remarks on, - - 286 
 Elections and credentials, appointed a mem- 
 ber of committee on, - - 68 
 
 Enrollment, appointed on committee on, - 68 
 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 the whole, - - 281, 454 
 
 Remarks on striking out the word " white," 347 
 
 Elective Franchise, remarks on, - 384- 
 
 Finance, taxation and public debt, remarks 
 on, - - - 463. 
 
 Remarks on the report of the committee on 
 miscellaneous provisions, - 544 
 
 Resolution relative to enrolling the constitu- 
 tion, offered by, - - 584 
 
 Resolution to print the journal, offered by, 585 
 " relative to signing the constitu- 
 tion, offered by, - - 586 
 CoE, Chas. a., (delegate from Houston,) — 
 
 Executive department, appointed a member 
 of the committee on, - 68 
 
 Miscellaneous provisions, appointed a mem- 
 ber of the committee on, - 68 
 
 Resolution to adjourn sine die on the 7th of 
 August, offered by, - - 197 
 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 the whole, - - 475 
 
 CoGGSWELL, Amos, (delegate from Steele,) — 
 
 Substitute for resolution relative to the wish 
 of the people to become a State, proposed 
 by, - - 11 
 
 — Remarks on, - - 11, 17 
 Proposition to appoint a standing committee 
 
 on State boundary, remarks on, - 39 
 
 Resolution relative to the use of the Terri- 
 torial Library, offered by, - 39 
 
INDEX. 
 
 40 
 
 43 
 
 46 
 
 53 
 
 54 
 
 62 
 
 65 
 
 68 
 194 
 
 70 
 
 COGGSWELL, Amos, (delegate from Steele,)— | 
 Resolution to print the Enabling Act, of- ' 
 
 fered by, 
 Proposition to supply the members with 
 
 newspapers, remarks on, 
 Resolution relative to the incidental print- 
 ing, offered by. 
 Resolution relative to officeholders in the 
 
 convention, offered by, 
 Ehgibility of Federal officeholders to seats 
 
 in the convention, remarks on. 
 Invitation to all delegates to present their 
 
 credentials, remarks on, 
 Sesolution relative to the U. S. Marshal, of- 
 fered by. 
 Appointed on the committee on the schedule, 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, appointed 
 
 chairman of the committee on, 
 — Remarks on. 
 
 Remarks on the resolution to appoint a com- 
 mittee to wait upon the U. S. Marshal, 
 Oro-anization of the convention, remarks 
 
 Legislative Department, remarks on, - 199 
 Boundary of the State, remarks on the sub- 
 stitute for the report of the committee 
 on, - - 227-9 
 
 Educational institutions and interests, re- 
 marks on, - - 2434 
 Rights of settlers on school lands, remarks 
 
 on, - - 256 
 
 County and township organization, remarks 
 
 on, 
 State officers other than executive, remarks 
 
 on. 
 Banking, &c., remarks on. 
 Equal suffrage, remarks on the proposition 
 
 to submit the question of, to the people, 
 Remarks on Mr. Fostee's suDstitute to sec- 
 tion one for the report of the committee 
 on elective franchise, - 379 
 
 Amendments to the constitution, remarks on, 389 
 Civilized persons of Indian descent, re- 
 marks on the question of extending the 
 right of suffrage to, - 396 
 
 Judiciary, remarks on the report of the 
 
 committee on, - - 403 
 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 
 the whole, - - 411 
 
 Proposition to submit the question of State 
 
 boundary to the people, remarks on, 412 
 
 Printing boundary resolution, remarks on, 443 
 Public property, remarks on the report of 
 
 the committee on, - 476 
 
 University of Minnesota, remarks on the lo- 
 cation and distribution of the fund of, 482-4 
 Navigable waters, remarks on the subject of, 510 
 State officers, remarks on the qualilica- 
 
 tionof, - - 521 
 
 Remarks on the 'three months residence 
 
 clause, - - 524 
 
 Compromise committe, remarks on the re- 
 port of, - - 570-8 
 
 267 
 
 283 
 819 
 
 307 
 
 57 
 
 99 
 
 74 
 
 OOGGSWELL, Amos, (delegate from Steele,)— 
 Resolution relative to the pay of members, 
 
 offered by, - - 586 
 
 Resolution proposing extr-K compensation to 
 
 members, - - 589 
 
 Payment of members and officers, remarks 
 on, - - 593 
 
 CoLBURN, N. B. (delegate from Fillmore)— 
 Wish of the people to become a State, re- 
 marks on . • 19> 20, 25 
 Remarks on resolution inviting members to 
 
 present credentials. 
 Banking, &c., appointed chairman of the 
 
 committee on. 
 Elective Franchise, appointed member of 
 
 the committee on, 
 Resolution to hold but one session per day, 
 
 offered by. 
 Resolution for the appointment of a com- 
 mittee on Leave of Absence, offered by. 
 Selected as Chairman of the committee of 
 
 the Whole, . 100, 108, 281, 400 
 
 Leave of Absence, appointed chairman of 
 
 the committee on, . ■ 108 
 
 Executive Department, remarks on, 131 
 
 Banking, &c., remarks on, . 143, 321 
 
 Exemption of Real and Personal Property, 
 
 remarks on, . . 150 
 
 Taking private property for public uses, 
 
 remarks on, . . 188 
 
 Educational Institutions aud Interests, re- 
 
 mai'ks on, . . . 237, 253 
 
 County and Township Organization, re- 
 marks on, • . 263 
 Remarks on striking out the word " white," 347 
 Substitute of Mr. Foster, to section one of 
 the report of the committee on the elec- 
 tive franchise, remarks on, . . 377 
 Elective Franchise, remarks on report of 
 
 committee on. . • 383 
 
 Amendments to the Constitution, remarks 
 
 on . • • 387 
 
 Civilized persons of Indian descent, remarks 
 
 on extending the right of suffrage to, 396 
 Resolution to adjourn sine die, August 13th, 400 
 Resolution directing the Secretary to com- 
 municate the compromise resolutions to 
 the Democratic Convention, . 441 
 
 Remarks on referring the question of State 
 
 Boundary to the people, . 414 
 
 Militia, remarks on the organization of, 455 
 Salt Springs, remarks on the disposition of, 491 
 State Seal and Coat of Arms, remarks on, 519 
 Qualification of State OfficeVs, remarks on. 
 Remarks on the report of the committee on 
 
 Miscellaneous Provisions, 
 Regents of the University, remarks on the 
 
 proposition to elect by the people. 
 Assault on Mr. Wilson, remarks on. 
 Printing the Debates and Proceedings, re- 
 marks on. 
 Resolution relative to the expenses of the 
 
 532 
 
 645 
 
 547 
 555 
 
 559 
 
INDEX. 
 
 OoLBCBN, N. B. (delegate from Fillmore) — 
 Conyention to form a Constitution, offered 
 by - - - 555 
 
 Compromise committee, remarks on the 
 report of, . . • . 566 
 
 Resolution relative to the authentication of 
 the Constitution, offered by, . 585 
 
 Resolution relatiTeto the pay of the Reporter, 586 
 
 Remarks on the pay of Members, . 591 
 
 Committee — 
 
 On Credentials, appointed . 9 
 
 On standing committees, appointed, . 27 
 
 On reporting, . • 23 
 
 Standing committees, appointed, . 68 
 
 Committee on Leave of Absence appoint€d, 79 
 
 " " Engrossment, " 197 
 
 " " Enrollment, " 231 
 
 " " Compromise, " 410 
 
 Committee of the Whole — 
 
 On the wish of the people to become a 
 State, - - 13 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, on the report 
 of the committee on, 88, 100, 109, 127 
 
 Executive department, on the report of com- 
 mittee on, - - 123 
 
 Bankings &c., on the report of committee 
 on, - - 141, 803 
 
 Punishment of crimes, on the report of 
 committee on, - - 147 
 
 Exemption of real and persoaal estate, and 
 the rights of married women, on the re- 
 port of committee on, . 149 
 
 Legislative department, on the report of 
 the committee on, - 199, 516 
 
 State boundary, on the report of the com- 
 mittee on, - - 221 
 
 Organization of cities and villages, on the 
 report of committee on, - 230 
 
 Educational institutions and interests, on 
 the report of the committee on, 230, 232 
 
 County and township organization on the 
 report of the committee on, - 259 
 
 State officers other than executive, on the 
 report of the committee on, - 281 
 
 Impeachment and removals, on the report 
 of committee on, - 333 
 
 Elective franchise, on the report of the com- 
 mittee on, - 337, 438, 540 
 
 Amendment and revision, on report of com- 
 mittee on, -' - 387 
 
 Salaries, on report of committee on, - 390 
 
 Judiciary, on the report of the committee on, 400 
 
 On the proposition for submitting to the peo- 
 ple the questipn of boundary, - 413, 417 
 
 Militia, on the report of the committee on, 454 
 
 Finance, Taxation, and Public Debt, on the 
 report of the committee on, - 462 
 
 Internal Improvements, on the report of the 
 committee on, - - 475 
 
 Public Property, on the report of the com- 
 mittee on, - - 475, 482 
 
 Schedule, on the report of the committee 
 on> - V20, 526, 527, 543 
 
 B 
 
 196 
 595 
 
 Committee of the Whole — 
 State Seal and Coat of Arms, on the report 
 
 of committee on, - 537 
 
 Miscellaneous Provisions, on the report of 
 committee on, - - 543 
 
 CoMMOx Highways — 
 Amendment of Mr. Billixgs to article on 
 
 Public Property relative to, - 476 
 
 — Rejection of, - - 477 
 
 Compromise — 
 Resolutions submitted by Mr. Galbraith 
 
 for a, - - 410 
 
 The Secretary directed to transmit the same 
 
 to the Democratic Convention, 441 
 
 Communication from the Secretary relative 
 
 to, - - 496 
 
 Commnnications from H. H. Siblbt relative 
 
 to, - . - 536, 685 
 
 Report of committee on, - 565 
 
 Committee on, report Constitution enrolled, 533 
 
 Conduct of the Democrats — 
 Resolution of Mr. McClure relative to, 
 
 — Of Mr. Foster relative to. 
 Contested Seat — 
 
 Petition of Chas. B. Sheldox, - 27 
 
 — referred to select committee, 27 
 — report of select committee on, - 28 
 Discussion of the report - - 28-34 
 Report of the committee on Credentials, 52 
 
 Coombs, Albert W., (delegate from Hen- 
 nepin,) — 
 
 Elections and credentials, appointed mem- 
 ber of the committee on, - 6S 
 CotrsTY AND Township Organization — 
 Committee on, ordered, 
 
 " appointed. 
 
 Report of committee on, 
 
 — taken up in committee of the whole, 
 Ordered engrossed, and read a third time 
 
 and adopted. 
 Credentials — 
 Committee on, appointed, 
 Report of committee on. 
 Report of committee on, in the case of Mr. 
 
 Sheldox, 
 Of members, ordered to be filed with the 
 Secretary, 
 Daily Session — 
 Resolution for one, per day, 
 
 — taken up and adopted, 
 Davis, E. Page, (delegate firom Nicollet)- 
 
 Invitation to delegates to present their cre- 
 dentials, remarks on. 
 
 Punishment of crimes, appointed chairman 
 of committee on, 
 
 Miscellaneous provisions, appointed a mem- 
 ber of the committee on, - 6S 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, remarks on, 91, 114 
 
 Leave of absence, appointed member of com- 
 mittee on, . . lOS 
 
 34 
 
 68 
 
 166 
 
 259 
 
 281 
 
 52 
 
 64 
 
 57 
 
 68 
 
INDEX. 
 
 Davis, E. Page, (delegate from Nicollet) — 
 Executive department, remarks on, . 129 
 Resolution to submit boundary question to 
 
 the people, offered by, . . 408 
 
 Remarks on, . . . 408-10 
 
 Printing boundary resolutions, remarks on, 448 
 Capital of the State, remarks on proposition 
 ' to locate at St. Peter, . . 521 
 
 Apportionment of representation, remarks 
 
 on, , . , 527 
 
 Remarks on the report of the compromise 
 
 committee, . . . 580 
 
 Remarks on the payment of members aud 
 
 officers, . . 590 
 
 Compensation of the Democratic members, 
 
 resolution, relative to, offered by, . 586 
 
 Designs of Administration Leaders — 
 Reiolutions of Mr. Balcombe, relative to 
 
 introduced, - - 108 
 
 Speech of Mr. Balcombe on, - 115-27 
 
 DicKERSON, D. D. (delegate from Scott) — 
 Salaries, appointed a member of committee 
 
 on, - - 68 
 
 Finance, Taxation and Public Debt, remarks 
 
 on, - - 68 
 
 Elective Franchise remarks on, - S82 
 
 Judiciary system, remarks on, . 405 
 
 Finance, Taxation, and Public Debt, re- 
 marks on, . . 465 
 
 DuLEY, Warben J. (delegate from Winona) 
 Punishment of Crimes, appointed a member 
 
 of committee on, . . 68 
 
 Printing, appointed a member of commit- 
 tee on, . . 68 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, remarks on, 100 
 Leave of Absence, appointed a member of 
 
 committee on, . . 108 
 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, re- 
 marks on, . . 252 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 the Whole, . . 551 
 
 Educational Institutions, &c. — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, . 35 
 
 " appointed, . . 68 
 
 Report of committee on, . . 83 
 
 Report on, taken up in committee of the 
 
 whole, . . . 128 
 
 — reported correctly engrossed, . 182 
 Read a third time and adopted, . 537 
 
 Elections and Credentials — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, . . 89 
 
 " appointed, . 68 
 Elective Franchise — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, . . 85 
 
 " appointed, , 68 
 
 Report of committee on, . . 887 
 Supplementary report of committee on, on 
 
 the question of equal suflfrage, . 867 
 
 Report ordered engrossed, . 400 
 
 — read a third time and adopted, . 640 
 
 Eligibility of certain Members — 
 Mr. Ooggswell's resolution on the, . 53 
 
 — discussion of, . . 53-& 
 Resolution laid over, . . 56 
 
 — called up aud laid on the table, . 65 
 Enabling Act — 
 
 Ordered to be printed, . . 40 
 
 Resolution to place on the journal, . 64 
 
 Engrossment — 
 
 Committee on, ordered. . , 19T 
 
 " appointed, . 197 
 
 Enrollment — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, . . 221 
 
 " appointed, . . 221 
 
 Equal Suffrage — 
 Resolution to refer to the people the ques- 
 tion of, . . 367 
 Supplemental report of the committee on 
 elective franchise, in reference to, . 3G7 
 Escheats — 
 
 Proposition to amend the article on Public 
 
 Property relative to, . 491 
 
 Consideration of amendment, . . 491-3 
 
 Amcndmont adopted, . . 493 
 
 EscHLiE, Henry (delegate from Cai^er) — 
 Organization of Cities and Tillages, appoin- 
 ted a member of committee on, 68 
 Elective Franchise, appointed a member of 
 committee on, . . 68 
 
 Executive Department — 
 
 Committee on ordered, . 38 
 
 " " appointed, . • 68 
 
 Report of committee on, • 83 
 
 — taken up in committee of the Whole, 128 
 
 — reported correctly engrossed, . 182 
 
 — read a third time and adopted, 537 
 Exemptions, &c., — 
 
 Committee on ordered, . 38 
 
 " " appointed, . . OS 
 
 Report of committee on, • 78 
 
 — taken up in committee of the Whole, 149 
 
 — indefinitely postponed, . 152 
 Federal Officers — 
 
 Their eligibility to seats in the Convention, 
 
 resolution and discussion relative to, 53-6 
 Resolution laid over, . 56 
 
 — called up and laid on the table, . 60 
 
 Finances, Taxation and Debt — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, . 35 
 
 " " appointed, . 68 
 
 Report of committee on, . • 407 
 
 — taken up in committee of the Whole, 462 
 
 — ordered engrossed, . • 476 
 
 — read a third time and adopted, 589 
 
 FoLSOM, W. II. C. (delegate from Chisago) — 
 Legislative Department, appointed a mem- 
 ber of the committee on, . 68 
 Impeachment and Removal, appointed a 
 member of the cooimittee on, . 6&- 
 
 *• 
 
INDEX. 
 
 VII 
 
 FoLSOM, W. H. C. (delegate fron Chisago) — 
 Organization of representative bodies, reso- 
 lution relative to, offered bv, . 82 
 Legislative Department, remarks on, 205 
 Appointed chairman of the committee on 
 
 engrossment . . 221 
 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, re- 
 marks on, . . 241 ! 
 County and Township organization, remarks 
 
 on," . . 271 
 
 Banking, &c., remarks on, . 325 
 
 Elective Franchise, remarks on, . 384 
 
 Judiciary, remarks on, . . 4<>4 
 
 Boundaries of the State, proposition to refer 
 the question of to the people, remarks 
 on, . . 416 
 
 Finances, Taxation, and Public Debt, re- 
 marks on, . . 465 
 Navigable waters, Temarks on the subject of 512 
 Kemarks on the three months' residence 
 
 clause, . . 524 
 
 Substitute for the resolution submitting the 
 question of the location of tft Capitol to 
 the people, offered by, . 539 
 
 Election of Regents of the University by the 
 people, remarks on proposition for, 550 
 
 Foster, Tnos. (delegate from Dakota) — 
 Wish of the people to become a State, 
 
 remarks on, . . 12 
 
 Resolution admitting Mr. Sheldox, remarks 
 
 on, . • . 29-33 
 
 Resolution relative to the census of the 
 
 Territory, offered by, . 27 
 
 Resolution relative to stationery, offered by, 40 
 Proposition to furnish newspapers to mem- 
 • bers of the convention, . . 41 
 
 Resolution relative to, offered by, . 47 
 
 Printing for the convention, remarks on the 
 
 question of, . . 48 
 
 Invitation to delegates to present their cre- 
 dentials, remarks on, . . 60 
 Arrangement and phraseology, appointed 
 
 a member of the committee on, . 68 
 
 Schedule, appointed chairman of the com- 
 mittee on, . . CS 
 Printing, appointed chairman of the com- 
 mittee on, . . 63 
 Banking, kc, remarks on, . 144, 329 
 Punishment of crimes, remarks on, . 148 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 
 the whole, . . 149,475 
 
 The rights of married women, remarks on, 169 
 County and township organization, remarks 
 
 on, . . 260 
 
 Striking out the word "white," remarks 
 
 on, . . . 340-2 
 
 Judiciary, remarks on, 407 
 
 Boundaries of^the State, proposition to refer 
 
 the question of, to the people, . 415 
 
 Militia, remarks on the organization of, . 455 
 Salt springs, remarks on the disposition of, 490 
 Escheats, remarks on the subject of, . 492 
 
 FostEB, Thos., (delegate fi:x)m Dakota) — 
 University of Minnesota, remarks on the 
 
 location and distribution of the fund of, 494 
 Navigable waters, remarks on the subject of, 510 
 Assault on Mr. "Wilsox, remarks on, . 556 
 Report of the compromise committee, offers 
 
 resolution relative to the report of, . 583 
 Payment of the members of the convention, 
 
 remarks cn the subject of, . 590 
 
 The conduct of the Democratic convention, 
 
 resolution relative to, offered by, . 595 
 FoSTEB, "WiLLIAJI — 
 
 Elected Sergeant-at-Arms^o tern, . 9 
 
 " permanently, . . .10 
 
 Extra pay voted to, . . . 589 
 
 FCBBEB, P. P. 
 
 Oath to members and oflBcers of the conven- 
 tion, offered by, . .10 
 
 Galbraith, Thos J., (delegate from Scott) — 
 
 Elected President pw ffm of the convention, 9 
 
 Wish of the people to become a State, re- 
 marks on, - - 13, 15, 22-3 
 
 Resolution to admit Mr. Shkldon to a seat, 
 remarks on. 
 
 Eligibility of Federal officeholders to seats 
 in the convention, remarks on, 
 
 Invitation to all delegates to present their 
 credentials, remarks on. 
 
 Judiciary, appointed a member of the com- 
 mittee on. 
 
 Impeachments, appointed a member of the 
 committee on. 
 
 Miscellaneous provisions, appointed chair- 
 man of the committee on. 
 
 Elections and credentials, appointed chair- 
 man of committee on. 
 
 Limitation of discussion, resolntion for, of- 
 fered by, 
 
 — remarks on. 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, remarks on. 
 
 Educational institutions and interests, re- 
 marks on, - - . 245-7 
 
 Rights of settlers on school lands, remarks 
 on, - - 257 
 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 the whole, - - 259 
 
 County and township organization, remarks 
 on, ' - - 273, 874, 276 
 
 State officers other than*execQtive, remarks 
 on, - - 232 
 
 Banking, &c., remarks on, - 310 
 
 Striking out the word " white," remarks 
 on. - - 343-5 
 
 23 
 
 53 
 
 oS 
 
 6S 
 
 6S 
 
 68 
 
 63 
 
 71 
 
 89 
 
 Elective franchise, remarks on. 
 
 Civilized persons of Indian descent, remarks 
 on proposition to extend the elective fran- 
 chbe to, - - - 
 
 Judiciary, remarks on, 
 
 Compromise resolutions, submitted by, 
 
 — appointed chairman of committee on, . 
 
 Remarks on referring the question of State 
 Boundary to the people, 
 
 334 
 
 396 
 406 
 410 
 411 
 
 429 
 
INDEX. 
 
 Galbbaith, Thos, J., (delegate from Scott) — 
 Militia, remarks on the organization of, 456 
 Escheats, remarks on the subject of, - 491 
 Assault on Mr. Wilson, remarks on, - 554 
 Compromise committee, remarks on the re- 
 port of, - - 568 
 Payment ol members and officers, remarks 
 on, - - 592 
 Grbbish, Chaeles (delegate froip Winona) — 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, ap- 
 pointed a member of the committee on, 68 
 Supplies and expenditures, appointed a 
 
 member of the committee on, . 68 
 
 Assault on Mr. Wilson, resolution relative 
 
 to, offered by, . . 554 
 
 Extra compensation to members, resolution 
 for, offered by, . . 589 
 
 GowAN, John H. — 
 Resolution to allow extra pay to, as Assist- 
 ant Sergeant at Arms, 587 
 Hall, D. M. (delegate from St. Anthony) — 
 
 Organization of Cities and Villages, appoin- 
 ted a member of the committee on, 68 
 
 Finance, Taxation and Public Debt, appoin- 
 ted a member of the committee on, 68 
 Hanson, Charles (delegate from Fillmore) — 
 
 Amendment and revision of the Constitution, 
 appointed a member of the committee on, 08 
 
 Internal Improvements, appointed a mem- 
 ber of the committee on, . . 68 
 Habding, Simeon (delegate from Olmsted) — 
 
 State Boundaries, appointed a member of 
 the committee on, - 68 
 
 Elective Franchise, appointed a member of 
 the committee on, - - 68 
 
 Newspapers, offers a resolution in relation 
 to the supply of, - 48 
 
 County and Township organizations, re- 
 marks on, - - - 260 
 
 Judiciary, remarks on, - 402 
 
 Term of Judicial officers, remarks on, 516 
 
 Hayde^i, Wentwoeth (delegate from Hen- 
 nepin— 
 
 Remarks on resolution inviting members to 
 present credentials, - 58 
 
 Executive Department, appointed a member 
 of committee on, - 68 
 
 State Officers, other than executive, appoin- 
 ted a member of committee on, 68 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, remarks on 
 the report of the committee on, - 89 
 
 Boundaries of the State, remarks on, 222 
 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, re- 
 marks on the report of the committee on, 240 
 
 County and township organization, remarks 
 on the report of the committee on, - 266 
 
 State Officers other than Executive, remarks 
 on, - - - - 281 
 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 the whole, - • 883, 667 
 
 Striking out the word " white," remarks 
 on, - - - - 869 
 
 Hayden, Wentwoeth, (delegate from Hen- 
 nepin, 
 
 Civilized persons of Indian descent, re- 
 marks on the question of extending the 
 right of suffrage to, - , 392 
 
 Personal Explanation, by, - - 452 
 
 Remarks on the report of the committee on 
 Miscellaneous Provisions, - 545 
 
 Holley, H. W. (delegate from Fillmore)— 
 
 Finance, taxation and Public Debt, appoin- 
 ted a member of committee on, 68 
 
 Amendment and Revision of the Constitu- 
 tion, appointed chairman of the commit- 
 tee on, - ' 68 
 
 Selected as Chairman of the committee of 
 the Whole, . 141 
 
 Hudson, Aakon G. (delegate from Goodhue) 
 
 Wish of the people to become a State, re- 
 marks on, - - - 12, 18 
 
 Amendment and revision of the Constitu- 
 tion, appointed a member of the commit- 
 tee on, - - 68 
 
 Schedule, appointed a member of the com- 
 mittee on, - - 68 
 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, re- 
 marks on, . . 251 
 
 State Officers, other than executive, re- 
 marks on, ... 282 
 
 Banking, &c., remarks on, - 320 
 
 Striking out the word "white," remarks on, 342 
 Elective Franchise, remarks on, - 386 
 
 Amendments to the Constitution, remarks 
 
 on, - - - - 388 
 
 Civilized persons of Indian descent, re- 
 marks on the question of extending the 
 right of suflrage to, - - 394 
 
 Judiciary, remarks on the report of the 
 
 committee on, - 405 
 
 Proposition to submit the question of Boun- 
 
 •dary to the people, remarks on, - 435 
 
 Printing boundary resolution, remarks on, 447 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 
 the whole, - - 462 
 
 Navigable waters, remarks on the subject of, 509 
 Manner of voting for the Constitution, re- 
 marks on, - 523 
 Apportionment of representation, remarks 
 
 on, - - 527 
 
 State Officers, remarks on the time 'of the 
 
 qualification of, - 585 
 
 Assault on Mr. Wilson, remarks on, 558 
 
 Impeacuments, &c., — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, - - 86 
 
 " " appointed, - - 68 
 
 Report of committee on, - 219 
 
 Consideration of report, 833 
 
 Report ordered engrossed, - - 834 
 
 " read a third time and adopted, 542 
 
 Impbisonment for Debt — 
 
 Incidental debate thereon, - 177-8 
 
 Internal Impeovements — 
 Committee on, ordered, - - ' 86 
 
INDEX. 
 
 Internal Impbovemexts — 
 Committee on, appointed, - - 68 
 
 Report of the committee on, - 449 
 
 — taken up in committee of the whole, 475 
 Report stricken out, - - 475 
 
 Invitation to Delegates — 
 Resolution of Mr. North, - 56 
 
 — discussion of, - - 56-64 
 
 — amended and adopted, - 64 
 Judicial Depabtment — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, - - - 35 
 
 " appointed, - - 63 
 
 Committee on, reported, - - 3S4 
 
 Report of committee on, taken up in com- 
 mittee of the whole, - - 400 
 
 Report of committee on, ordered engrossed, 407 
 
 " read a third time and adopted, - 539 
 
 Kemp, Sam'l A. (delegate from Wabashaw) 
 
 State Officers, otherthan executive, appoin- 
 ted a member of the committee on, 63 
 
 Salaries, appointed chairman of committee 
 on, . . . .63 
 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, re- 
 marks on, - - 249 
 
 County and Township Organization, re- 
 marks on, ... 260 
 
 Manner of voting for the Constitution, re- 
 marks on, - - 523 
 
 Authentication of the Constitution, resolu- 
 tion for, offered by, - 5S5 
 King, David L. (delegate from Olmsted) — 
 
 Wish of the people to become a State, re- 
 marks on, - • - 12, 23 
 
 Proposition to supply the members ^with 
 newspapers, remarks on, - 45 
 
 Remarks on inviting members to present 
 credentials, - - 60 
 
 State Officers other than executive, appoin- 
 ted a member of the committee on, 68 
 
 Salaries, appointed a member of the com- 
 mittee on, - - 68 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, "remarks on, 93 
 
 Offers a resolution of inquiry into the expe- 
 diency of inserting a registry clause in 
 the Constitution, - 74 
 
 Punishment of crimes, remarks'on, 148 
 
 Engrossment, appointed a member of the 
 committee on, - 197 
 
 County and Township Organization, remarks 
 
 on. 
 
 267 
 
 Banking, and Corporations other than Mu- 
 nicipal, remarks on, - - 323 
 
 Elective Franchise, remarks on report of 
 committee on, . • 384 
 
 Finance, taxation and public debt, remarks 
 on, - - - 472 
 
 Salt Springs, remarks on the disposition of, 491 
 
 Navigable waters, remarks on the subject of, 512 
 
 State Officers, remarks on the time of the 
 qualification of, - 535 
 
 Remarks on the three months' residence 
 clause, - - 624 
 
 C 
 
 Kino, David L., (delegate from Olmsted) — 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 
 the whole, - - 543 
 
 Remarks on the report of the committee on 
 
 Miscellaneous Provisions, . 552 
 
 Printing the Debates and Proceedings, re- 
 marks on, . . 584 
 
 Leave of Absence — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, - 99 
 
 Granted to Mr. Cederstam, - 182 
 
 " " Thompson, - 473 
 Legislative Depabtment — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, - 35 
 
 " appointed, . - 68 
 
 Report of committee on, - 84 
 
 Consideration of report, - 198 
 
 Report ordered engrossed, - - 307 
 
 " read a third time and adopted, - 518 
 Leu, Gustav — 
 
 Elected Fireman ^ro tern, - 9 
 
 " " permanently, - 10 
 Libel, (or Slander) — 
 Proposition to amend the article on the 
 Bill of Rights so that the jury determine 
 
 the law and the facts, - 158 
 
 — debate on, - - 158-61 
 Proposition rejected, - 161 
 
 Limitation of Discussion — 
 Resolution submitted in reference to, - 71 
 
 — discussion of, - - 71-3 
 
 — adoption of, - - 73 
 Location of the Capital — 
 
 Resolution of Mr. Mills for, - 537 
 
 Substitute for, of ilr. Folsom, - 539 
 
 — laid on the table, - 539 
 Lowe, Chables F., (delegate from Chisago) — 
 
 Invitation to all delegates to present their 
 credentials, remarks on, - 56 
 
 Punishment of crimes, appointed a member 
 of the committee on, - 68 
 
 Impeachments and removals, appointed a 
 member of the committee on, - 68 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, remarks on, 92, 113 
 
 Banking, &c., remarks on, - 141, 322 
 
 Punishment of crimes, remarks on, - 149 
 
 State Seal and Coat of Arms, appointed a 
 member of committee on, - 182 
 
 Educational institutions and interests, re- 
 marks on, - • 239 
 
 County and Township Organization, re- 
 marks on, . . 271 
 
 Judiciary, remarks on the report of the 
 committee on, - • 406 
 
 Proposition to submit the question of State 
 boundary to the people, remarks on, 417 
 
 Militia, remarks on the organization of, - 457 
 
 Finance, Taxation and Public Debt, re- 
 marks on, - - 462, 4^2 
 
 University of Minnesota, remarks on the lo- 
 cation and distribution of the fund of, 489 
 
 Location of the Capital at St. Peter, re- 
 marks on, - - 521 
 
INDEX. 
 
 Ltle, Robeet, (delegate from Mower) — 
 Appointed member of committee on the ex- 
 emption of real and personal estate and 
 the rights of married women, - 68 
 
 Supplies and expenditures, appointed a 
 
 member of the committee on, - 68 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Eights, remarks on, 107 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, re- 
 marks on, - - - 251 
 Judiciary, remarks on, - 402 
 Remarks on report of the committee on 
 
 miscellaneous provisions, - 551 
 
 Resolution to adjourn sine die, August 27th, 
 offered bj, - - 583 
 
 Mantor, Frank, (delegate from Dodge) — 
 
 Wish of the people to become a State, re- 
 marks on, - - 19 
 
 Census of the Territory, resolution relative 
 to, offered by, - 26 
 
 Printing the rules, resolution for, offered by, 28 
 
 Proposition to appoint a standing committee 
 on State boundary, remarks on, - 88 
 
 * Proposition to supply the members with 
 newspapers, remarks on, - 44 
 
 Invitation to all delegates to present their 
 credentials, remarks on, - 57 
 
 Internal improvements, appointed a mem- 
 ber of the committee on, - 68 
 
 Militia, appointed chairman of the commit- 
 tee on, - - 68 
 
 Limitation of debate, remarks on resolution 
 for, - - 73 
 
 Exemption of real and personal property, 
 remarks on, - - 151 
 
 Liquor licenses, remarks on proposition for- 
 ever prohibiting, - - 175 
 
 Capital punishment, remarks on, - 190 
 
 Engrossment, resolution for a standing com- 
 mittee on, offered by, - 197 
 
 — Appointed chairman of the committee on, 197 
 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 the whole, - - 198 
 
 Proposition to submit the question of State 
 boundary to the people, remarks on, - 226 
 
 Striking out the word "white," remarks 
 on, - - 338-40 
 
 Civilized persons of Indian descent, remarks 
 on the question of extending the right of 
 suffrage to, - - 393 
 
 Proposition to submit the question of State 
 boundary to the people, remarks on, 414 
 
 Payment of the mileage of members, reso- 
 lution for offered, and remarks on by, 449 
 
 Militia, remarks on, - 455 
 
 Apportionment of representation, remarks 
 on the, - - 626 
 
 jlcgents of the University, remarks on the 
 proposition to elect by the people, 551 
 
 Printing the debates and proceedings, re- 
 marks on, - - 560 
 
 Extra compensation to the Secretary, reso- 
 lution for, offered by, - 565 
 
 Mantor, Frank, (delegate from Dodge) — 
 
 Compromise committee, remarks on the re- 
 port of, - - 579 
 
 Payment of members and officers, remarks 
 on, - - 591 
 
 Extra compensation to Messenger, resolu- 
 tion for, offered by, - 589 
 Married Women, Rights of — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, - 35 
 
 " " appointed, - 6& 
 
 Report of committee on, - - 99 
 
 Amendment to Bill of Rights relative to, 1 64 
 
 " adopted, - 174 
 
 McOann, Jos. A. (delegate from Houston) — 
 
 Appointed a member of the Judiciary com- 
 mittee, - - 68- 
 
 Miscellaneous Provisions, appointed a mem- 
 ber of the committee on, - 68- 
 McOlure, Ciias. (delegate from Goodhue) — 
 
 Wish of the people to become a State, re- 
 marks on, - - 13, 16 
 
 Remarks on resolution inviting members to 
 present credentials, - 64 
 
 Organization of Cities and Villages, appoin- 
 ted a member of the crmmittee on, 68' 
 
 Appointed a member of the Judiciary com- 
 mittee, - - 68 
 
 Appointed a member of the committee on 
 banks, - - . . 68 
 
 Arrangement and phraseology, appointed 
 chairman of the committee on, 68 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, remarks on 
 report of committee on, . . 94 
 
 Election returns, resolution to procure cer- 
 tified copy of, offered by, - 88 
 
 Libel or Slander, in actions for, jurors to be 
 judges of the law and the fact, remarks on, 159 
 
 Rights of Married Women, remarks on, 173 
 
 Taking private property for public uses, re- 
 marks on, - - 184 
 
 Conduct of the Democrats, resolution rela- 
 tive to, offered by, - 196 
 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 the whole, . . 230 
 
 Organization of the Convention, speech 
 on, - - 287-96 
 
 Banking, &c., remarks on, . 823 
 
 Impeachment and removal from office, re- 
 marks on, - - - 833 
 
 Striking out the word "white," remarks 
 on, . . . 361 
 
 Substitute of Mr. Foster's, to section one, 
 of the report of the committee on the 
 elective franchise, remarks on, - 878 
 
 Amendments to the Constitution, remarks 
 on, - - 888 
 
 Appointed a member of the compromise 
 conmiittee, - - - 410 
 
 Remarks on referring the question of State 
 Boundary to the people, . 437 
 
 University of Minnesota, remarks on the 
 location and distribution of the fund of, 495 
 
 te« 
 
INDEX. 
 
 McClvre, Chas. (delegate from Goodhue) — 
 
 Remarks on the report of the compromise 
 committee, . . . 573-7 
 
 Remarks on the payment of members and 
 officers, . . 591 
 
 McKuxE, Lewis, (delegate from Waseca) — 
 
 Proposition of Congress, resolution relative 
 to, offered bv, - - 46 
 
 Public property and expenditures, appomt- 
 ed a member of the committee on, - 68 
 
 Miscellaneous provisions, appointed a mem- 
 ber of the committee on, - 68 
 
 Boundary of the State, remarks on the sub- 
 stitute for the report of the committee on, 221 
 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, re- 
 mai-ks on, - - 230 
 
 County and Township organizations, re- 
 marks on, - - - 262 
 
 Finance, Taxation, and Public Debt, re- 
 marks on, - - 463 
 
 Internal improvements, remarks on report 
 of committee on, - 475 
 
 Assault on Mr. Wn-sox, remarks on, - 559 
 
 Compromise committee, remarks on the re- 
 port of, - - 580 
 Messesger — 
 
 B. L. Sellers elected^© ton, - 9 
 
 " " permanently, - 10 
 
 " resigned the office of, - 34 
 
 W. H. Shellet, elected, - 35 
 
 — extra pay voted to, - 589 
 
 Messer, B. E., (delegate from McLeod) — 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, appointed a 
 
 member of the committee on, - 63 
 
 Educational institutions and interests, ap- 
 pointed chairman of the committee on, 68 
 
 — Remarks on, - 247 
 Impeachments and removal from office, ap- 
 pointed chairman of the committee on, 68 
 
 Elections and credentials, appointed mem- 
 ber of the committee on, - 68 
 
 County and township organization, remarks 
 on, - - 259 
 
 Striking out the word " white," remarks 
 on, - - - - 337-8 
 
 Civilized persons of Indian descent, re- 
 marks on proposition to extend the elec- 
 tive franchise to, - 394 
 
 Printing boundary resolntion, remarks on, 445 
 
 Compromise committee, remarks on the 
 report of, . . . 579 
 
 Mills, "Wiluam H., (delegate from Olm- 
 sted)— 
 
 Presents his credentials, - 27 
 
 Appointed a member of the committee on 
 
 educational institutions and interests, 68 
 
 Public property and expenditures, appoint- 
 ed a member of the committee on, - 68 
 Object of a constitution, resolution declaring 
 
 the fundamental, offered by, - 152 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, remarks on 195 
 
 Mills, William H., (delegate from Olmsted.) 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 
 the Whole, . . 387 
 
 Judiciary, remarks on the report of the 
 
 committee on, - - 406 
 
 Finance, Taxation and Public Debt, remarks 
 
 on, - - - - 472 
 
 Manner of voting for the Constitntion, re- 
 marks on, - - 528 
 Location of the Capitol, submits a resolu- 
 tion for, - - 537 
 MnjTiA — 
 Committee on, ordered, . . 35 
 " appointed, 68 
 Report of committee on, . 417 
 Consideration of Report, - 454 
 Report ordered engrossed, . 462 
 
 — read a third time and adopted, . 537 
 Miscellaneous Provisions — 
 
 Committee on ordered, . 36 
 
 " " appointed, . • 68 
 
 Report of committee on, • 538 
 
 — taken up in committee of the Whole, 543 
 
 — ordered engrossed, . 553^ 
 j Morgan, David (delegate fit)m Heimepin) — 
 
 Executive department, appointed a member 
 
 of the committee on, - 68 
 
 Punishment of Crimes, appointed a mem- 
 ber of the committee on, - 68 
 Organization of Cities and villages, appoin- 
 ted chairman of committee on, - i§ 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 
 the whole, - - 127 
 
 Punishment of crimes, remarks on, . 14& 
 Exemption of Real and Personal Estate, 
 
 remarks on, - 149 
 
 Slander or libel, in actions for, jurors to be 
 
 judges of the law and the fact, remarks on, 161 
 Agricultural lands, remarks on leases of, 161 
 Legislative Department, remarks on, 20O 
 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, re- 
 marks on the report of the committee on, 238 
 State officers other than executive, remarks 
 
 on, - - 284 
 
 Banking, &c., remarks on, - 316 
 
 Striking out the word " white," remarks 
 
 on, ' - - 343 
 
 Elective franchise, remarks on, - 382 
 
 Amendments to the Constitntion, remarks 
 
 on, - - 387 
 
 Printing boundary resolutions, remarks on, 443 
 Militia, remarks on the organization of, 461 
 
 Finance, Taxation and Public Debt, re- 
 marks on, - . - 4g3 
 Public Property, remarks on the report of 
 
 the committee on, - - 475 
 
 Common highways, navigable waters, re- 
 marks on, - . 477 
 University of Minnesota, remarks on the 
 
 location and distribution of the fund of, 487 
 Escheats, remarks on the subject of, . 493 
 State officers, remarks on the time of the 
 
INDEX. 
 
 Morgan, David, (delegate from Hennepin) — 
 qualifications of, - 521 
 
 Apportionment of representation, remarks 
 on, . . . 527 
 
 Remarks on the report of the committee on 
 Miscellaneous Provisions, - 543 
 
 Election of Regents of the University by the 
 people, remarks on proposition for, 546 
 
 Printing the Debates and Proceedings, re- 
 marks on, - - 560 
 
 MuRPiiY, J. H. (delegate from St. Anthony) 
 Elective Franchise, appointed a member of 
 
 committee on, . . 68 
 
 Public Property and Expenditures, appoin- 
 ted a member of the committee on, 68 
 Legislative Department, remarks on, 207 
 Striking out the word "white," remarks on, 347 
 Apportionment of Representation, remarks 
 on, - - 527 
 Neill, E. D.— 
 Elected Chaplain, - - 10 
 Communication from, - 28 
 
 — read and filed, - - 46 
 Newspapers — 
 
 Resolution relative to the supply of, to the 
 members, - - 40 
 
 — discussion of, - 40-6 
 
 — referred to select committee, 46 
 
 — Report of committee on, . 47 
 Officers allowed, - 81 
 
 North, J. TV. (delegate from Rice) — 
 Convention called to order by, - 9 
 
 Committee on Credentials, appointed chair- 
 man of, - - 9 
 Substitute to resolution on the wish of the 
 
 people to become a State, offered by, 21 
 
 — • remarks on, - - 21-2 
 
 Resolution to admit Mr. Sheldon to a seat, 
 
 remarks on, - - 29, 33 
 
 Resolution of Invitation to delegates to 
 present their credentials, . 56 
 
 — remarks on, . . 58 
 Resolution for the employment of a Re- 
 porter, offered by, . 66 
 
 Legislative Department, appointed chair- 
 man of the committee on, . 68 
 
 Elective Franchise, appointed a men:ber of 
 committee on, . 68 
 
 Arrangement and phraseology, appointed 
 a member of the committee on, . 68 
 
 Judiciary, appointed a member of the com- 
 mittee on, - - 68 
 
 Supplies and Expenditures, appointed a 
 member of the committee on, - 68 
 
 Limitation of discussion, remarks on, 73 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, remarks on 
 the report of the committee on, . 90 
 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 the Whole, . . 13,128,280 
 
 Exemption of Real and Personal Estate, 
 remarks on, . . 150 
 
 North, J. W., (delegate from Rice) — 
 The rights of married women, remarks on, 170 
 Taking Private Property for public uses, re- 
 remarks on, . . 184 
 Legislative Department, remarks on the re- 
 port of the committee on, . 200 
 Educational institutions and interests, re- 
 marks on, - - 236, 238 
 County and township organization, remarks 
 
 on, . . 277 
 
 Organization of the convention, speech 
 
 on, - - 296-807 
 
 Banking, remarks on the' report of the com- 
 mittee on, - - 330 
 Striking out the word "white," speech on, 347-60 
 Remarks on Mr. Foster's substitute to sec- 
 tion one for the report of the committed 
 on elective franchise, - 375 
 Remarks on report of the committee on State 
 
 seal and coat of arms, - 411, 518 
 
 Proposition to submit the question of Boun- 
 dary to the people, remarks on, - 436 
 Printing boundary resolutions, remarks on, 445 
 Militia, remarks on the report of the com- 
 mittee on, - - 455 
 University of Minnesota, remarks on the 
 
 location and distribution of the fund of, 481 
 Reconsideration of vote relative to the Uni- 
 versity, remarks on, - 499 
 Navigable waters, remarks on the subject of, 510 
 Manner of voting for the constitution, re- 
 marks on, - - 52S 
 Qualification of State officers, remarks on, 532 
 Compromise committee, remarks on the re- 
 port of, - - 579 
 Resolution relative to the payment of mem- 
 bers and officers, offered by, - 590 
 — Remarks on, - - 590 
 Official Reporter — 
 Committee appointed to employ, - 28 
 " employ T. F. Andrews, - 66 
 Resolution relative to the payment of, %6 
 " " discount on orders for, 586 
 Organization — 
 Temporary organization of the convention, 9 
 Permanent " " " 10 
 Of Representative bodies, resolution of Mr. 
 
 FoLSOM, - - 82 
 
 Of the convention, speech of Mr. Foster, 29-33 
 
 " " " Mr. CoGGSWBLL, 74-8 
 
 " " " Mr. Balcombe, 115-27 
 
 " " Mr. McClurb, 287-96 
 
 " " " Mr. North, 299-307 
 
 Organization op Cities, &c, — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, - 85 
 
 " " appointed, - 68 
 
 Report of committee on, - - 127 
 
 " taken up in committee of the whole, 230 
 
 " stricken out, - - 280 
 
 Owens & Moore — 
 
 Elected printers to the convention, - 88 
 
 Resolution relative to the payment of, 586 
 
INDEX. 
 
 ini 
 
 Pavmext of Members — 
 
 Resolution of Mr. Maxtor, relative to, 449 
 
 " laid on the table, - 454 
 
 " of Mr. BiLLDCGS relative to, 584 
 
 " laid on the table, - 584 
 
 Peckham, Jos., (delegate from Goodhue,) — 
 
 Invitation to all delegates to present their 
 credentials, remarks on, - 62 
 
 Finance, Taxation and Public Debt, appoint- 
 ed a member of committee on, C8 
 
 Exemption of real and personal estate and 
 rights of married women, appointed a 
 member of committee on, - 68 
 
 Executive department, remarks on the re- 
 port of the committee on, - 131 
 
 Exemption of real and personal estate, re- 
 marks on, - - 150 
 
 Engrossment, appointed chairman of ihe 
 mittee on, - - 197 
 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, re- 
 marks on, - - 235 
 
 Resolution for printing the constitution, of- 
 fered by, - - 537 
 
 Election of Regents of the University by 
 the people, remarks on proposition for, 550 
 
 Pebkixs, Oscab F., (delegate from Rice,) — 
 
 Wish of the people to become a State, re- 
 marks on. - - 19 
 
 Newspapers, resolution for the supply of, 
 offered by, - - 40 
 
 — Remarks on, - 44 
 
 Accepting the proposition of Congress, re- 
 solution relative to, oflFered by, - 66 
 
 State boundaries, selected as Chairman of 
 the committee on, - 68 
 
 Internal Improvements, appointed a mem- 
 ber of the committee on, - 68 j 
 
 Resolution of inquiry ofiFered by, whether I 
 
 the Assessors, have taken the number of 
 inhabitants, . . 74 
 
 Resolution granting the use of the Hall to 
 Dr. Roberts, ofiFered by, . 108 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, remarks on, 100, 114 
 
 Executive department, remarks on the re- 
 port of the committee on, . 130 
 
 Rights of Married Women, remarks on, 172 
 
 Taking private property for public uses, 
 remarks on, . . 183 
 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, re- 
 marks on, . . 234 
 
 Banking, Ac, remarks on, . 318 
 
 Striking out the word "white," remarks 
 on, . . 371-5 
 
 Elective Franchise, remarks on, - 386 
 
 Civilized persons of Indian descent, remarks 
 on proposition to extend the elective fran- 
 chise to, - - - 393 
 
 Boundaries of the State, proposition to refer 
 the question of, to the people, . 428 
 
 Location of the Capital at St. Peter, re- 
 marks on, . . 531 
 D 
 
 Perkins, Oscab F., (delegate from Rice) — 
 
 Manner of voting on the Constitution, re- 
 marks on, . . 525 
 
 Apportionment of representation, remarks 
 on, - - 529 
 
 Qualifications of State OflScers, remarks on, 534 
 
 Printing Debates and Proceedings, remarks 
 on, 
 
 Compromise committee, remarks on the 
 report of, , . 567 
 
 Payment of members and officers, remarks 
 on, - - 695 
 
 Personal Explanation — 
 Remarks of Mr. Hatdex, . 452 
 
 " " WiLSOx, . , 560 
 
 Petition — 
 
 Of L. H. Bond, and others, citizens of 
 Dodge county, . . 87 
 
 Phelps, Botd, (delegate from Mower,) — 
 Presents his credentials, - 4€ 
 
 Appointed member of committee on the ex- 
 emption of real and personal estate and 
 the rights of married women, - 68 
 
 Public property and expenditures, appoint 
 
 ed a member of committee on, - 68 
 
 Engrossment, appointed a member of the 
 
 committee on, 63 
 
 Closes the Convention with prayer, - 696 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, 8fi 
 
 " " appointed, - 68 
 
 Report of committee on, - - 78 
 
 — taken up in committee of the whole, 88, 100, 
 
 [109, 127 
 Substitute for proposed, - 15$ 
 
 Special report of committee on, 259 
 
 Read a third time and adopted, - 504 
 
 President of the Convention — 
 
 President pro tern elected, 9 
 
 *' elected permanentij, - 10 
 
 Vote of thanks to, - 587 
 
 Remarks on the adjoornment, - 696 
 
 Printing — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, ss 
 
 Of the Enabling Act, ordered, - if) 
 
 Of the Convention, resolution relative to, 46 
 
 Of the reports, ordered, - 80 
 
 Election of printer, " - - 82 
 
 OwEXS k MooRK elected printers, - 88 
 
 Of the Constitution, ordered, - 637 
 
 Of the Proceedings and Debates, resolution * 
 
 for, offered, - - 650 
 
 — Resolution adopted, - 584 
 Of the Journal, ordered, - 688 
 
 Proposition of Congress — 
 (See Acceptance.) 
 
XIV 
 
 INDEX. 
 
 Public Pbopebty — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, • - - 86 
 
 " appointed, - - 68 
 
 Report of the committee on, - 84 
 
 Consideration of report, - MO 
 
 Report read a third time and adopted, - 558 
 
 Punishment of Crimes — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, - 86 
 
 " appointed, . - 68 
 
 Report of committee on, - 87 
 
 Consideration of report, - 147 
 
 Report re-committed, - 149 
 
 Putnam, S. W., (delegate from St. Antho- 
 ny,)— 
 
 Legislative Department, appointed a mem- 
 ber ol the committee on, - 68 
 State Boundaries, appointed a member of 
 the committee on, - 68 
 
 Begistby Clause — 
 
 Resolution of Mr. King relative to a, 74 
 
 Reporting — 
 
 Special committee on, appointed, - 28 
 
 • — Report of, - - 66 
 
 Resolutions — 
 Relative to the wish of the people to become 
 
 a State, - - 11 
 Substitutes for, - IS, 18, 21, 25 
 Relative to the census of the Territory, 26 
 Substitute for, - - 27 
 Relative to printing the Rules, - 28 
 Admitting Charles B. Sheldon to a seat, 28 
 Relative to the use of the Territorial Li- 
 brary, - - 89 
 For the supply of Stationery, - 40 
 To print the Enabling Act, - 40 
 For the supply of Newspapers, - 40, 47 
 Accepting the Proposition of Congress, 46 
 Relative to incidental printing, - 46 
 To procure a certified copy of the Legisla- 
 tive Act, authorizing the formation of a 
 Constitution, - - 49 
 Relative to officeholders in the Convention, 53 
 For the admission of all members on terms 
 
 of equality, - - 56 
 
 To delay the appointment of committees, 57 
 
 To wait upon the United States Marshal, 65 
 
 For the employment of a Reporter, 66 
 Substitute to, accepting the proposition of 
 
 Congress, . . 66 
 
 To limit discussion, - 71 
 Of inquiry, whether the Assessors of the 
 Territory have filed lists of the inhabitants, 74 
 • Of inquiry into the expediency of a registry 
 clause, f . .74 
 
 For holding one session per day, . 74 
 To furnish officers of the Convention with 
 
 newspapers, . , 81 
 Relative to the organization of representa- 
 tive bodies, . . S3 
 
 Resolutions — 
 
 To procure a certified copy of the returns of 
 
 the late election, . . 88 
 
 For a committee on leave of absence, 99 
 
 Granting the use of the Hall to Rev. Dr. 
 
 Roberts, . . 108 
 
 Declaring the fundamental object of a Con- 
 stitution, . . 152 
 For a standing committee on Engrossment, 197 
 To adjourn sine die on the seventh of August, 197 
 Relative to equal suffrage, . 367 
 To adjourn sine die, August thirteenth, 400 
 Referring the question of Boundary to the 
 
 people, . . 408 
 
 For the appointment of a compromise com- 
 mittee, . . 410 
 Directing the Secretary to communicate 
 compromise resolutions to the Democratic 
 Convention, . . 441 
 To submit the question of Negro Suffrage, 440 
 Relative to the payment of the mileage of 
 
 members, . . 449 
 
 To print the Constitution, ' . . 537 
 
 To submit the location of the Capital to the 
 
 people, . . 537 
 
 Substitute for the same, . . 537 
 
 To adjourn sine die, August twenty-seventh, 558 
 Relative to the assault upon Mr. Wilson, 554 
 To print the Debates and Proceedings, 559 
 
 Relative to the expenses of the Convention, 565 
 Allowing extra compensation to the Secre- 
 tary, - - 565 
 Relative to the report of the Compromise 
 
 Committee, - - 583 
 
 Relative to the payment of the members, 584, 586 
 Relative to enrolling the Constitution, 584 
 
 Relative to authenticating the Constitution, 58g 
 Relative to printing the Journal, - 585 
 
 To audit the accounts of official reporter, 586 
 To audit the accounts of Owens & Moorb, 586 
 Relative to the certificates of the Democrat- 
 ic members, - - 586 
 Relative to signing the Constitution, 586 
 Relative to the pay of the Reporter, 586 
 Of thanks to the President and officers of 
 
 the Convention, - 587 
 
 Relative to translating the Constitution, 587 
 Granting extra pay to Assistant Sergeant- 
 
 at-Arms, - - 687 
 
 Relative to certain expenses, • 587 
 
 Adopting the enrolled report of the commit- 
 tee of Conference, - 688 
 To transcribe the Constitution on parchment, 589 
 Granting extra pay to the Sergeant, at- Arms, 589 
 For extra pay to members, - 689 
 Granting extra pay to the Assistant Secre- 
 tary, - • 689 
 Granting extra compensation to Messenger, 689 
 Respecting the payment of members and 
 
 officers, - - 690 
 
 Relative to the conduct of the Democratic 
 Convention, - • 595 
 
INDEX. 
 
 xr 
 
 RoBBiNS, Nathak B., (delegate from Olm- 
 sted,) — 
 
 Wish of the people to become a State, re- 
 marks on, - - 14, 21 
 Internal Improvements, appointed chairman 
 
 of the committee on, - 68 
 
 Schedule, appointed a member of the com- 
 
 miitee on, - - 6S 
 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 
 the Whole, - - S90 
 
 Assault on Mr. Wilsox, remarks on, - 554 
 Printing the Debates and Proceedings, re- 
 marks on, - - 559 
 Report of Conference committee, remarks 
 
 on, - - 570 
 
 Resolution granting extra compensation to 
 Assistant Secretary, oflFered bv, - 6S9 
 
 RtLES OF Proceeding — 
 
 Committee appointed to report on, - 11 
 Of last House of Representatives adopted 
 
 temporarily, - - 11 
 
 Report of committee on, - 27 
 
 Two hundred copies of, ordered printed, 28 
 
 Amendment proposed to, - 232 
 
 Russell, William F., (delegate from Hen- 
 nepin,) — 
 
 County and Township Organization, ap- 
 pointed a member of the committee on, 68 
 Enrollment, appointed a member of the 
 
 committee on, - - 221 
 
 State OflBcers, other than executive, remarks 
 on, - - 284 
 
 Salaries — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, - 36 
 
 " appointed, - 68 
 
 Report of committee on, - 837 
 Report on, taken up in committee of the 
 
 whole, - - 390 
 
 Ordered engrossed, - 891 
 
 Read a third time and adopted, - 537 
 
 Salt Spkixgs — 
 Debate relative to the disposition of, 490 
 
 Schedule — 
 
 Committee on, ordered, . . 36 
 
 " appointed, . 68 
 
 Report of committee on, . . 504 
 
 Taken up in committee of the Whole, 520 
 
 Report ordered engrossed, . 536 
 
 Reported correctly engrossed, . 537 
 
 Seal axd Coat of Arms — 
 
 Committee on ordered, . 182 
 
 " " appointed, . • 182 
 
 Report of committee on, • 336 
 
 — taken up in committee of the Whole, 411 
 
 — ordered engrossed, . 504 
 Report recommitted, . 520 
 
 — reported back, . . . 520 
 Substitute for adopted, . . 637 
 
 87 
 
 41 
 
 63 
 
 63 
 
 Secombe, D. a. (delegate from St. An- 
 thony) — 
 
 Proposition to appoint standing committee 
 on State Boundary, remarks on. 
 
 Proposition to furnish the Convention with 
 newspapers, remarks on. 
 
 Act of the Legislature authorizing the Con- 
 vention, remarks on, 
 
 — Resolution relative to, oflFered by, 
 
 'Appointed Chairman of the committee on 
 Public Property, 
 
 Banking, Ac, appointed a member of the 
 committee on, .... 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, remarks on 
 the report of the committee on, . 92,118 
 
 Executive Department, remarks on the re- 
 port of the committee on, . 139 
 
 Banking, &c., remarks on the report of the 
 committee on, . . . 141,309 
 
 Libel or Slander, in actions for, jurors to be 
 judges of the law and the fact, remarkson, 160 
 
 Rights of Married Women, remarks on, 163 
 
 Taking private property for public uses, re- 
 marks on, - - 187 
 
 Legislative Department, remarks on the re- 
 port of the conmaittee on, . 200 
 
 The St. Anthony delegates, speech on the 
 regularity of the election of, . 209-19 
 
 County and township organization, remarks 
 on. 
 
 State officers other than executiTe, remarks 
 on. 
 
 Impeachment and removal from oflBce, re- 
 marks on, ... 
 
 Substitute of ^r. Foster's, to section one, 
 of the report of the committee on the 
 elective franchise, remarks on. 
 
 Judiciary, remarks on the report of the 
 committee on. 
 
 Resolution for the payment of members, re- 
 marks on, ... 
 
 Proposition to submit the question of Boun- 
 dary to the people, remarks on, 
 
 Navigable waters, remarks on the subject 
 of, - - - 477,511 
 
 University of Minnesota, remarks on the 
 location and distribution of the fund of, 479,502 
 
 Salt Springs, remarks on disposition of, 490 
 
 Escheats, remarks on the subject of, . 492 
 
 Reconsideration of vote relative to the 
 Uuiversity, remarks on, - 493 
 
 Manner of voting for the constitution, re- 
 marks on, • • 660 
 
 Qualitication of State officers, remarks on, 633 
 
 Apportionment of representation, remarks 
 on the, - - - 626 
 
 Regents of the University, remarks on the 
 proposition to elect by the people, 543 
 
 Assault on Mr. Wilsox, remarks on, - 556 
 
 Compromise committee, remarks on the re- 
 port©^ - . Sli 
 
 262 
 
 286 
 
 SS3 
 
 377 
 
 401 
 
 449 
 
 469 
 
tvi 
 
 INDEX. 
 
 Secombe, D. a., (delegate from St. An- 
 thony) — 
 
 Resolution relative to the payment of mem- 
 bers and officers, remarks on, - 590 
 
 Offers resolution relative to the enrolled 
 copy of the Constitution, - 583 
 
 Secretary of the Convention — 
 
 L. A. Babcock, elected pro tern, - 9 
 
 " " permanently, - .10 
 
 Extra compensation allowed to, - 525 
 
 Sellers, B. L. — 
 
 Elected Messenger, pro tern. - 9 
 
 " " permanently, - 10 
 
 Resigned the office of, - - 34 
 
 Sergeant-at-Arms — 
 
 Wm. Fosteh, elected pro tern. - 7 
 
 " " permanently, - 10 
 
 Extra pay to, - - 589 
 
 Settler on School Lands — 
 
 Amendment to report of committee on Ed- 
 ucational Institutions, &c., respecting, 255 
 Amendment rejected, - 258 
 
 SnELDON, Charles B., (delegate from Hen- 
 nepin,) — 
 
 Opened the Convention with prayer, - 11 
 Submits his petition for a seat, - 27 
 Report on petition, - - 28 
 — re-referred to committee, - 83 
 Second report of committee, - 52 
 Admitted to a seat, - 53 
 Legislative Uepariment, appointed a mem- 
 ber of the committee on, - 68 
 Schedule, appointed a member of the com- 
 mittee on, - - 68 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, re- 
 marks on the report of committee on, 233 
 
 Shelley, Wm. H. — 
 
 Elected Sergeant-at-Arms j>ro<CT», - 27 
 
 " Messenger, - 85 
 
 Extra pay voted to, • - 689 
 
 Smith, T. D., (delegate from Carver,) — 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, appointed a 
 
 member of committee on, - 68 
 
 Exemption of Real and Personal Estate, 
 
 and Rights of Married Women, appointed 
 
 a member of committee on, - 68 
 
 — Remarks on, - - 160 
 
 Apportionment of Representation, remarks 
 
 on, • . - 627 
 
 Standing Committees — 
 
 Resolution in reference to, 
 Report of committee on, 
 Appointment of. 
 List of, ordered printed, 
 
 78 
 
 Stannard, L. K., (delegate from Chisago,) — 
 Offers resolution relative to the wish of the 
 
 people to become a State, - 11 
 
 — Remarks on, - - 11, 25 
 
 Proposition to supply the members with 
 
 newspapers, remarks on, - 45 
 
 Finance, Taxation and Public Debt, appoint- 
 ed chairman of the committee on, - 68 
 Legislative Department, appointed a mem- 
 ber of the committee on, - 68 
 Boundaries, appointed a member of the 
 
 committee on, - - 68 
 
 Judiciary, appointed a member of the com- 
 mittee on, - - 68 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 
 the whole, - 83, 111, 308 
 
 Executive Department, remarks on, - 137 
 Legislative Department, remarks on, 205 
 
 State Boundaries, remarks on, - 225 
 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, re- 
 marks on, - - 233 
 Rights of Settlers on School Lands, remarks 
 
 on, - - 257 
 
 County and Township Organization, remarks 
 
 on, - - 261 
 
 Banking, &c., remarks on the report of the 
 
 committee on, - - 322 
 
 Substitute of Mr. Foster's, to section one, 
 of the report of the committee on the 
 elective franchise, remarks on, - 377 
 
 Elective Franchise, remarks on the report 
 
 of the committee on, - 383 
 
 Appointed a member of the committee of 
 
 Compromise, - 411 
 
 Proposition to submit the question of State 
 
 boundary to the people, remarks on, 423 
 
 Finance, Taxation, and Public Debt, re- 
 marks on, - - 471 
 Reconsideration of a certain vote relative to 
 
 the University, - 497 
 
 Navigable waters, remarks on the subject of, 511 
 State Officers, remarks on the time of the 
 
 qualification of, - 520 
 
 Assault on Mr. Wilson, remarks on, - 554 
 Compromise committee, remarks on the re- 
 port of, . - 569 
 Resolution for transcribing the Constitution, 
 
 offered by . . 533 
 
 Extra compensation to the Sergeant-at- 
 Arms, resolution for, oflFered by, . 589 
 
 St. Anthony Delegates — 
 Remarks of Mr. Sbcombk on the regularity 
 of the election of, . . 209-11 
 
 Stationery — 
 Resolution in relation to, adopted, . 40 
 
 Report of committee of supplies and ex- 
 penditures on, . 82 
 
 State Officers other than Executive — 
 Committee on, ordered, . 85 
 
INDEX. 
 
 xvn 
 
 State Officers other thas Executive — 
 Committee on appointed, . 68 
 
 Report of committee on, . 220 
 
 Consideration of report, . 281 
 
 Report ordered engrossed, . 286 
 
 — read a third time and adopted, 537 
 
 Supplies and Expexditubes — 
 Conunittee on, ordered, . 39 
 
 " appointed, . 68 
 
 Report of committee on furnishing Sta- 
 
 tionerr, . . 82 
 
 Report of committee on certain bills, jadopt- 
 ed, . . 535 
 
 Territorial Library — 
 
 Resolution in relation to, adopted, 40 
 
 Thompson-, C. W., (delegate from Hous- 
 ton,)— 
 
 Appointed chairman of the committee on 
 Township Organization, . 63 
 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, ap- 
 pointed a member of the committee on, 68 
 
 Banking, 4c., appointed a member of the 
 committee on, . . 63 
 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 the whole, . 221, 417, 537 
 
 Leave of absence granted to, . 493 
 
 UXIVERSITT OF MINNESOTA — 
 
 Consideration of the subject of, in report on 
 public property, . 477 
 
 Vaughn, Alanson B., (delegate from Mow- 
 ers- 
 Appointed on committee on Credentials, 9 
 Executive Department, appointed a member 
 
 of committee on, . 68 
 
 Amendment of the Constitution, appointed 
 
 a member of committee on, ' . 63 
 
 Walker, L. C, (delegate from St. Antho- 
 ny,)— 
 Appointed a member of the committee on 
 
 Internal Improvements, . 68 
 
 Appointed a member of the committee on 
 
 Elections and Credentials, . 68 
 
 Ward, J. Q. A.— 
 
 Elected Assistant Secretary ^ro tern, . 9 
 
 " permanent Secretary, . 10 
 
 Extra pay voted to, . . 589 
 
 Watson, Geo., (delegate from Freeborn,) — 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, appointed a 
 member of the committee on, . 68 
 
 Salaries, appointed a member of the com- 
 mittee on, . . 68 
 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 the whole, . 147, 520, 543 
 
 Judiciary, remarks on the report of the 
 committee on, . 403 
 
 Watson, Geo., (delegate from Freeborn) — 
 Apportionment of Representation^ remarks 
 
 on. 
 
 527 
 
 Winell, p., (delegate from St. Anthony,) — 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, appointed a 
 member of the committee on, . 68 
 
 County and Township Organization, ap- 
 pointed a member of the committee on, 68 
 
 Engrossment, appointed a member of the 
 committee on, . . 197 
 
 Wilson, Thos., (delegate from Winona,) — 
 
 OflFers substitutes for resolution on the wish 
 of the people to become a State, IS, 25 
 
 — Remarks on, . . 18, 21, 25 
 
 Eligibility of Federal Officers to seats in the 
 Convention, remarks on, . 55 
 
 Judiciary, appointed chairman on, . 68 
 
 State Boundaries, appointed a member of 
 the committee on, . 68 
 
 Elective Franchise, appointed a member of 
 the committee on, . 68 
 
 Resolution for a committee to wait upon the 
 U. S. Marshal, remarks on, . 70 
 
 Resolution allowing newspapers to officers 
 of the Convention, oflFered by, . 81 
 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, remarks on 
 report of committee on, . 91, 109 
 
 Slander or libel, in actions for, jurors to be 
 judges of the law and the fact, remarks on, 159 
 
 Rights of Married Women, remarks on, 171 
 
 Taking private property for public uses, re- 
 marks on, . . 179-82 
 
 Substitute for the report of the committee 
 on Boundaries, remarks on, . 223-5 
 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, re- 
 marks on, - - 233 
 
 County and Township organizations, re- 
 marks on, . . 279 
 
 Banking, remarks on the report of the com- 
 mittee on, . . 326 
 
 Striking out the word "white," remarks on, 343 
 
 Remarks on Mr. Foster's substitute to sec- 
 tion one for the report of the committee 
 on elective franchise, . 881 
 
 Elective Franchise, remarks on report of 
 committee on, .. . 383 
 
 Judiciary, remarks on the report of the 
 committee on, . . iOo 
 
 Appointed a member of the compromise 
 committee, . . 411 
 
 Remarks on report of the committee on 
 State Seal and Coat of Arms, . 412 
 
 Proposition to submit the question of Boun- 
 dary to the people, remarks on, . 422 
 
 Finance, Taxation and Public Debt, re- 
 marks on, ... 468 
 
 University of Minnesota, remarks on the 
 location and distribution of the fund of, 480 
 
 Reconsideration of a certain vote relative to 
 the University, remarks on, . 499 
 
xvrn 
 
 INDEX. 
 
 Wilson, Thos., (delegate from Winona) — 
 Navigable .waters, remarks on the subject 
 
 of, . . 513 
 
 Selected as chairman of the committee of 
 
 the whole, . . 526 
 
 Personal explanation relative to the assault 
 
 of W. A. Gorman, . . 560-5 
 
 Remarks on the report of the compromise 
 
 committee, . . . 518 
 
 Remarks on the payment of members and 
 
 officers, . . 591 
 
 TransTation of the Constitution, resolution 
 
 relative to, offered by, . 587 
 
 Extra pay to the Assistant Sergeant-at- 
 
 Arms, resolution for, offered by, . 587 
 
 Yeas and Nats — 
 
 On substitute of Mr. North, to the propo- 
 sition embodying the wish of the people 
 to become a State, - - 25 
 
 On amendment of Mr. Wilson, to the sub- 
 stitute, - - . 26 
 
 On adjournment, - - 46 
 
 On amendment of Mr. McClure, to substi- 
 tute for resolution inviting all delegates 
 to seats, - - - 64 
 
 On indefinite postponement of Report on 
 Exemption, &c., - - 152 
 
 On motion to re-commit the Report on Pre- 
 amble and Bill of Rights, - 158 
 
 Amendment to Preamble, &c., making ju- 
 rors to be judges of the law and facts, in 
 certain actions, - - 161 
 
 Amendment to Preamble, &c., in reference 
 to the rights of married women, 174 
 
 Amendment to Preamble, Ac, prohibiting 
 licenses to sell liquor, - - 175 
 
 Amendment to Preamble, Ac, relative to 
 taking private property for public use, 189 
 
 Substitute for Mr. Bolles' amendment pro- 
 hibiting the abolition of the death pen- 
 alty, - - - 191 
 
 Yeas and Nays — 
 
 Substitute for the report of the committee 
 on Boundaries, - - 229 
 
 Amendment to report of the committee on 
 Educational Institutions and Interests, 249 
 
 On adjournment (two votes), - 250 
 
 Respecting the rights of settlers on school 
 lands, - - - 253 
 
 Amendment to report on County and Town- 
 ship organization, - - 280 
 
 Amendments to report of the committee on 
 Banking, - - 324,326,327,331 
 
 On striking out the word " white," 365 
 
 Laying on the table an amendment to Mr. 
 Foster's substitute for the report of the 
 committee on Elective Franchise, - 385 
 
 Amendment to report of committee on elec- 
 tive Franchise, relative to allowing civil- 
 ized persons of Indian descent the right 
 to vote, - - - 398 
 
 On printing Boundary resolution, - 442 
 
 Substitutes for the Boundary resolution, 447,467 
 
 Reconsideration of the vote on Boundary 
 resolution, - . - 468 
 
 Propositions to submit the question of Boun- 
 dary to the people, - - 470 
 
 Laying on the table a motion to reconsider, 471 
 
 Amendments to report of committee on 
 public property relative to the Univer- 
 sity, - - - 496,501,507,309 
 
 Dispensing with proceedings under a call 
 of the House, - - 497,501 
 
 On ordering the previous question, - 602 
 
 Amendment to report of Committee on Pub- 
 lic Property relative to navigable waters, 512 
 
 Motions to suspend the rules, - 516,568 
 
 On the passage of the report of the com- 
 mittee on Elective Franchise, - 542 
 
 On ordering the report of the Compromise 
 committee to a third reading, - 581 
 
 On the passage of the report, - 582 
 
 " " substitution of the report, 682 
 
THE CONVENTION. 
 
 HALL OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 
 Saixt Paul, Monday, July 13, 1857. 
 
 The Delegates elected to form a Constitution 
 and State Government for the Territory of 
 Minnesota, this day assembled in the Hall 
 of the House of the Representatives at the 
 CapitoL 
 
 TEMPOBAKY OBGAJOZATIOX. 
 
 At fifteen minutes before twelve o'clock, 
 Mr. J. W. NORTH called the Convention to 
 order, and nominated THOS. J. GALBRAITH 
 as President pro tempore. 
 
 Mr. NORTH put the question to the Dele- 
 gates, and declai-ed it carried. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH thereupon took the 
 chair. [At this stage of proceedings a portion 
 of the delegates left the Convention.] 
 
 The PRESIDENT pro tern, having called 
 the Convention to order, 
 
 Mr. FOSTER nominated the following tem- 
 porary officers, who were, without division, 
 declared elected: 
 
 L. A. Babcock, Secretary ; 
 
 J. Q. A. "Wabd, Assistant Secretary ; 
 
 Wm. Fosteb, Sergeant-at-Arms ; 
 
 B. L. Sellobs, Messenger ; 
 
 GusTAV Leue, Fireman. 
 
 Mr. NORTH said he would state for the 
 information of those who might not have been 
 aware of the fact, that he nominated Mr. 
 Galbbaith as President pro tern, at the 
 written request of a majority of the members 
 of the entire Convention. 
 
 CBEDEXTIALS. 
 
 On motion of Mr. ALDRICH, the President 
 pro tern, was authorized to appoint a commit- 
 tee of five members to collect and report upon 
 the credentials of the delegates present. 
 
 The PRESIDENT ;)ro Urn., (from a printed 
 list of all the delegates elect,) appointed as 
 such committee, Messrs. Nobth, Aldbich, 
 Shebbcbxe, Yacghx and Baasex. 
 
 The Committee having performed the duty 
 assigned them, reported the following delegates 
 as having presented regular credentials : 
 
 first I>igtrict—P. A. Ckdebstam, W. H. C. Fol- 
 so3t, L. K. Staxxabd, Chas. F. Lowe ; 
 
 TAird DUfrict—S. W. Pctsam, D. M. Hall, D. 
 
 A. Secombe, p. "Wkkll, L. C. Walkzk, J. H. 
 
 MCBPHT ; 
 
 Fourth District — Charles McCLrRK, Aarox G. 
 HcDsox, Geo. Watso.v, Fbaxk Maxtor, Joseph 
 Peckham ; 
 
 I'i/th District — ^Frederick Ater ; 
 
 Sixth District — Johx W. North, Thomas Bolles, 
 Oscar F. Perkixs, Thos. Foster, Thos. J. Gal- 
 
 BRAITH, D. D. DiCKIXSOX ; 
 
 Eighth District — Alaxsox B. Yacghx, C. W. 
 Thompsox, Johx A. Axdersox, Chas. A. Cob, N. 
 
 B. CoLBURX, Jos. A. McCaxx, H. a. Billixgs, 
 Charles Haxsox, H. W. Holly, Johx CleghObk, 
 a. H. Bctler, Robert Ltle ; 
 
 Jiinth District — St. A. D. Balcombe, Charles 
 Gerrisb, Siheox Haedixg, Nathax B. Robbiss, 
 Wm. J. Dult, Sam. A. Kemp, Thomas Wilsox, 
 David L. Kixg, Bexjamix C. Baldwix ; 
 
 Tfnth District — Amos Coggswell, Lewis Mc- 
 KcxB, Edwix Page Davis ; 
 
 Eleventh District — Cyrus Aldrich, Wextwobth 
 Haydkx, R. L. Bartholomew, W. F. Rcssell, 
 Hexry Eschlie, David ^Iorgax, E. X. Bates. 
 Albert W. Coombs, T. D. Smith, and B. E. Messer. 
 
 On motion of Mr. FOSTER, editors and 
 reporters of newspapers were invited to seats 
 within the bar. 
 
 On motion of Mr. THOMPSON, the report 
 of the committee on Credentials was accepted. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE moved that the credentials 
 
10 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Mondat, JuLt 13. 
 
 presented be «>ntered at large on the journal. 
 He wisbe,(^ that from the very commencement 
 it s-^hoald become apparent upon what basis 
 we are proceeding. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER approved of the motion. The 
 Convention had no archives in which its pa- 
 pers are to be deposited. The journal was 
 the only record of the Convention, and he 
 hoped these credentials would be spread upon 
 that record. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 MEMBERS QUALIFIED. 
 
 On motion of Mr. NORTH, Maj. Fukber, a 
 justice of the peace, administered to the dele- 
 gates present, the usual oath to support the 
 Constitution of the United States. 
 
 The PRESIDENT pro tern, then annoimced 
 that fifty-six delegates, a majority of the au- 
 thorized number of members of the body, 
 being present and in their seats, the Conven- 
 tion was open for the transaction of any busi- 
 ness which might come before it. 
 
 PERMANENT ORGAXIZATION. 
 
 On motion of Mr. NORTH, the Convention 
 proceeded mva voce to elect a permanent Pre- 
 sident, when it appeared that St. A. D. Bal- 
 COMBE received fifty-five votes and Mr. Al- 
 DRicn one. 
 
 On motion of Mr. NORTH, Messrs. Foster 
 and Thompson conducted the President elect 
 to the chair. 
 
 The PRESIDENT then addressed the Con- 
 vention as follows : 
 
 Gentlemen of the Convention : I return 
 to you my sincere thanks for this mark of 
 your kind consideration in electing me as 
 your presiding officer. I assume the duties 
 of this position with a knowledge of the fact 
 that there are many members of this Conven- 
 tion now before me, who are much better 
 qualified to perform its duties than myself. 
 But I ask it as a favor of each and every 
 member, to aid me so far as it is possible so 
 to do, in the performance of the responsible 
 duties to which you have assigned me. I shall 
 endeavor to discharge them to the best of my 
 ability ; and if I fail, it will be simply because I 
 have not the ability, and not because I have not 
 the ambition and dispo.sition to pcrfonn the 
 duties assigned mc in a creditable manner. 
 I again return my sincere thanks for your 
 
 consideration, and for the honor you have 
 conferred upon me. [Applause.] 
 
 On motion of Mr. STANNARD, the Con- 
 vention proceeded Xiixia wee to the election of 
 a permanent Secretary. 
 
 The roll was called and L. A. Babcock, of 
 St. Paul, having received all the votes cast, 
 (fifty-six) w'as declared to be duly elected. 
 
 On motion of Mr. WILSON, the Convention 
 proceeded mva voce to the election of perma- 
 nent Assistant Secretary. 
 
 The roll was then called, and J. Q. A. 
 Ward, of St. Paul, having received all the 
 votes cast, (fifty-six) was declared to be duly 
 elected. 
 
 On motion of Mr. FOSTER, the Convention 
 proceeded to the election of Scrgeant-at-Arms. 
 
 The roll being called, there were fifty -five 
 votes cast, of which Wm, Foster, of Dakota 
 County, received fifty-four, and B. L. Sellors 
 one. Whereupon, Wm. Foster was declared 
 duly elected. 
 
 On motion of Mr. THOMPSON, the Con- 
 vention proceeded to the election of a perma- 
 ment Messenger. The vote being taken, B. 
 L. Sellors, of Fillmore County, was unani- 
 mously elected. 
 
 On motion of Mr. FOSTER, the Convention 
 elected Gustav Leue, of Ramsey County, as 
 Fireman of the Convention. 
 
 On motion of Mr. GALBRAITH, the Con- 
 vention proceeded to the election of Chaplain. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH nominated the Rev E. 
 D. Neill, of St. Paul, and said : I desire 
 simply to remark, that Mr. Neill is one of 
 the pioneers of this country, and has identified 
 himself with its original history. He camo 
 here at an early day, one of the first perma- 
 nent ministers of the gospel among the whites 
 in the Territory. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Having had a long acquaint- 
 ance with Mr. Neill, I can, with Mr. Gal- 
 BRAiTH, endorse his qualifications. He has 
 been the historian of the territory, and has 
 contributed much to giving it position at homo 
 and abroad. As a liistorical man, wc shall 
 do ourselves credit in electing him — as we may 
 be called a historical convention, being the 
 first to lay the foundations of a state — and at 
 the same time we shall pay a deserved com- 
 pliment to him. 
 
 Mr. NORTH fiirther testified to the high 
 character of the nominee, after which the vote 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, Jclt 18. 
 
 11 
 
 being taken, Mr. Neill was unanimously | 
 elected. 
 
 On motion of Mr. WILSON, such ofiBcers 
 of the Convention as were present, were duly- 
 qualified by taking the oath of office, adminis- 
 tered by Maj. P. P. Fukbeb, Justice of the 
 Peace. 
 
 RULES OF PROCEEDINGS. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH moved that a committee 
 of three be appointed by the chair to complete 
 and report a code of rules for the government 
 of the Convention. The motion was agi-eed to. 
 
 The PRESIDENT appointed Messrs. Gal- 
 BRAiTH, Wilson- and McKune as such com- 
 mittee. 
 
 On motion of Mr. ALDRICH, the rules of 
 the last House of Representatives of the Ter- 
 ritorial Legislature were adopted as the rules 
 of the Ccmvention, as far as they were appli- 
 cable, imtil the select committee on Rules 
 should report, and their report be accepted. 
 
 On motion of Mr. WATSON, Messrs. Mc- 
 Clcre and Aldkich were appointed a com- 
 mittee to wait upon the Chaplaia elect, and 
 inform him of his election. 
 
 The organization of the Convention being 
 completed, the Rev. Mr. Sheldon opened the 
 Convention with prayer, in the absence of the 
 Chaplain elect. 
 
 WISH OF the people TO BE ADMITTED AS A STATE. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH (by imanimous consent) 
 read the Enabling Act of Congress, and then 
 offered the following resolution : 
 
 *'Ees6lv(d, That in the opinion of this Conven- 
 tion, it is the wish of the people of the proposed 
 State of Minnesota, to be admitted into the Union 
 at this time, in accordance with the act of Congress 
 entitled 'an act to authorize the people of the 
 Territory of Minnesota to form a constitution and 
 state government, preparatory to their admission 
 into the Union on an equal footing* with the original 
 states. Approved, March — , 185T." 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I offer the following 
 substitute : 
 
 "Seaolved, By the delegates elected in pursuance 
 of the provisions of the act of Congress, approved 
 March — , entitled ' an act to authorise the people 
 of the Territory of Minnesota to form a constitu- 
 tion and state government preparatory to their 
 admission into the Union on an equal footing with 
 the original states,' in Convention now assembled, 
 to form such constitution, in accordance with said 
 act, that it is the wish of the inhabitants residing 
 within the limits described in said act, to be ad- 
 mitted in the Union as a State in pursuance of 
 said act." 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I will accept the 
 substitute. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. If I understand the 
 language of that resolution, and the language 
 of the Enabling Act, the)' do not correspond 
 in some very essential features. The Enabling 
 Act provides that when the delegates elected 
 shall assemble at the Capitol, they shall " first 
 " determine by a vote whether it is the wish 
 " of the people of the proposed State " — ^the 
 "people," not "the inhabitants" — "to be 
 " admitted into the LTnion at this time." I 
 vmderstand that there is a material difference 
 between that language, and the language of 
 the resolution, and I am in favor of having the 
 language' of the Enabling Act incorporated, 
 verbatim et literatim, into that resolution as 
 far as it can be done. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. The words of my re- 
 solution are taken from the first part of the 
 first section of the Enabling Act, and fi-om 
 the second section, in which the term " peo- 
 ple" is used, which I consider synonomoua 
 with " inhabitants." 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Teiy true; but I 
 make a distinction between the acts of the 
 inhabitants of the Territory of Minnesota as 
 laid down and defined in the first section^ 
 and the actions and conduct of the delegates 
 when assembled at the Capitol for the purpose 
 of determining whether it is the wish of the 
 people to come into the Union upon an equal 
 footing with the original States. I am com- 
 pelled to vote against the resolution imtil it is 
 so fipamed as to include in it the words of the 
 Enabling Act, which specifies what shall be 
 done by the Convention when assembled, so 
 that there may be no doubt of its meaning, 
 and no advantage taken in any way, shape 
 or manner. 
 
 Mr. THOMPSON. I move that the reso- 
 lution be referred to a select committee of 
 three, with instructions to report to-morrow a 
 resolution in proper form. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I hope the motion will 
 not prevail. I think there is every evidence 
 of a long day's session, and I dislike very 
 much to sit here without having something to 
 i do. It seems that this is the key-stone of 
 ' our action, and we have to decide upon this 
 before we can advance another step. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I move to amend the 
 motion by striking out " select committee of 
 
13 
 
 MINxNiESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 18. 
 
 three," and substituting " a committee of the 
 Whole." 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. Would not the reso- 
 lution then be just where it is now ? 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. When we are in committee 
 of the Whole, amendments of all kinds and 
 shapes may be adopted,* rejected or changed 
 about to suit the wishes of this body; the 
 proceedings are not recorded upon the jour- 
 nals, or only so much of them as the House 
 afterwards adopts ; greater latitude of debate 
 is allowed, and an opportunity is afforded to 
 the President of the Convention to participate 
 in the discussion. For these reasons, I hope 
 it will be sent to a committee of the AVhole. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. It seems to me that it 
 would expedite business to refer the resolu- 
 tion to a select committee, which, I presume, 
 would report back such a resolution as would 
 satisfy the Convention. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. As a member of this 
 Convention I desire that, in taking a step of 
 this importance, we should act carefully, cau- 
 tiously, prudently and correctly. Our actions 
 will be criticised, and so far as I am con- 
 cerned, I am in favor of placing them in such 
 a shape that there shall be very little chance 
 for criticism or doubt. I can already see a 
 cloud lowering over us — and my apprehen- 
 sions are not, in my judgment, unfounded — 
 and it becomes us, as members of the Con- 
 vention, to look well to every step we take. 
 If I understand correctly the language of the 
 Enabling Act, and the proper construction 
 which is to be placed upon it, the resolution 
 which is adopted by the Convention should 
 incorporate substantially the language used in 
 that Act ; and if the pending resolution shall 
 be sent to the committee of the Whole, I shall 
 ofifer an amendment which will accomplish 
 that end. 
 
 Mr. KING. I second the motion for the 
 reference of these resolutions, and I hope they 
 will lie over imtil to-morrow to give the mem- 
 bers of the Convention time to reflect upon 
 them, and make up their minds. I conceive 
 this to be the most expeditious, and certainly 
 the safest mode of proceeding. A great many 
 of us are uninitiated in these proceedings, and 
 the noise and confusion has been so great that 
 all have not been able to understand all that 
 has been said. I hope, therefore, the rcsolu- 
 tion« will lie over until to-morrow to give us 
 
 nn opportunity of examining them at our 
 lodgings, and of consulting -with each other 
 relative to them. We shall then be able to 
 act understandingly. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I dislike very much to 
 obtrude myself upon the Convention, but I 
 wish to state to those who may not be fami- 
 liar with the rules, my understanding of this 
 matter. If this resolution and substitute are 
 referred to a committee of the Whole, it wiQ 
 be in the power of that committee to report 
 them back at any time. If I understand the 
 rules, they will come before the Convention 
 again just as easily from a committee of the 
 Whole as from a committee of three members. 
 The object of referring to a committee of the 
 Whole is to give us all an opportimity for ex- 
 amination and discussion among ourselves.^ 
 Every member who desires will have the op- 
 portunity of speaking upon them, and I do 
 not laiow why we may not arrive at correct 
 conclusions by this course as well as by any 
 other. I shall have no objection to adjourn- 
 ing, and allowing the matter to go over imtil 
 to-morrow, if we could adjourn with any safe- 
 ty ; but as we are obliged to remain here, let 
 us examine the matter coolly, quietly and 
 calmly, and see if we cannot come to a cor- 
 rect understanding of it. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I agree with gentlemen 
 that we should correct the phraseology of 
 the resolution so as to make it conform ex- 
 actly to the provisions of the Enabling Act ; 
 and although we might refer the* matter to a 
 committee, who could retire and report forth- 
 with, still, I see no reason why the resolution 
 cannot as well be perfected in committee of 
 the Whole, where there is perfect freedom in 
 offering and discussing amendments. When 
 we have agreed upon the phraseology of the 
 amendment, we can report it back to the 
 Convention, and adopt it. I hope the vote 
 will be taken without further delay, for, as 
 near as I can get at it, we can do no business 
 until we have disposed of this ; but when we 
 have disposed of this, we are then rectus in 
 curia, ready to proceed with the business of 
 the Convention. This is an important crisis ! 
 and we must move carefully, cautiously, and 
 at the same time decisively. Sending this 
 matter to committee of the Whole, where we 
 can hear and offer amendments, seems the 
 course be»t calculated to accomplish our ob- 
 
MIX^fESOTA C0N\T:NTI0N debates— Mont)ay, Jclt 13. 
 
 13 
 
 ject We can then go into Convention, and 
 take decisive action upon it. 
 
 Mr. ilcCLURE. I tiiink we can reach 
 this matter without going into committee of 
 the Whole at all. It seems to me we can 
 dispose of it just as well in Convention as in 
 committee, because we are just the same 
 body with a difiFerent head, and I do not see 
 what we should effect by it. If the gentle- 
 man over the way [Mr. Coggswell] will offer 
 the amendment which he has prepared, we 
 can consider it just as well here as in com- 
 mittee. If it should meet the views of gen- 
 tlemen here, those who have offered proposi- 
 tions before may be induced to withdraw 
 them, add we can adopt his resolution, and 
 thus arrive at the ; result we desire by a 
 shorter method than going into committee of 
 the Whole. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I do not consider myself 
 as posted in respect to the difference between 
 acting upon this subject in committee of the 
 Whole and in Convention, but I am decidedly 
 in favor of taking that course which will be 
 most likely to bring about the right result, 
 after a careful investigation of the whole mat- 
 ter. We are here to frame a Constitution for 
 the incoming State of Minnesota; and not 
 only are the eyes of Mumesota rating upon 
 us, but of the whole United States. We act 
 not for the present generation alone, but for 
 coming generations. The Constitution we 
 shall present to the people of Minnesota, we 
 shall present because we do not know enough 
 to make a better one ; and in all our actions 
 we ought to move cautiously. If I could see 
 any eflBcacy in going into committee of the 
 Whole — if as the gentleman [Mr. Fosteb] has 
 said, it can be discussed there more freely — 
 I should be in favor of discussing it there ; 
 but I should like to be enlightened as to the 
 mode in which it is to be accomplished. 
 
 The PRESIDENT stated that in committee 
 of the Whole members could speak as often 
 as they saw fit to the same question ; while, 
 xmder the rules, no member, in Convention, 
 could spe^ but twice to the same question. 
 Another difference was that the amendments 
 offered in committee of the Whole were not 
 required to be entered on the journal. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. This resolution is in 
 fact the starting point. Until we a«t upon 
 this matter nothing can be done. For my 
 
 part, I do not intend to discuss it here, and 
 am decidedly in favor of referring it to a com- 
 mittee of the Whole at once, for reasons and 
 good reasons, already stated. It can there 
 be debated and amended, if necessary, with- 
 out encumbering the journals. The utmost 
 latitude of debate should be allowed, and 
 there is not that freedom of debate here 
 which there is in committee. But it is our 
 business to make short work of this Conven- 
 tion. Our work must be done and well done ; 
 but we can practically do nothing until a re- 
 solution of this character has been passed. 
 
 The question was taken, and the motion to 
 refer the resolution to a committee of the 
 Whole was agreed to — ayes 24, noes 18. 
 
 Mr. NORTH moved that the Convention 
 resolve itself into committee of the Whole for 
 the purpose of taking up the resolution just 
 referred there. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. The Conven- 
 tion accordingly resolved itself into committee 
 of the Whole, (Mr. Nobth in the Chair), and 
 proceeded to the consideration of the resolu- 
 tions relative to the wish of the people to 
 form a State government. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL offered the following 
 substitute for the original resolution : 
 
 " Sesolved, That it is the wish of the people of 
 the proposed State of Minnesota, at this time, to 
 be admitted into the Union upon an equal footing 
 with the original States." 
 
 Mr. C. said. If this were the only body 
 to decide upon the correctness and legality of 
 our conduct and proceedings, I apprehend 
 there would be but little difficulty in arriving 
 at the object intended by the original resolu- 
 tion; but our conduct and proceedings are 
 all to imdergo the inspection of Congress ; 
 and sir, in laying down, as we are now doing, 
 the foundation of our futiu« action, I am in 
 favor of laying it down safely and securely ; 
 I am in favor of laying it down in such a 
 manner that neither Congress, nor any other 
 body, can misconstrue our intentions, our ob- 
 jects or our acts. I am satisfied tliat if there 
 were no diversity of opinion with regard to 
 our organization, any resolution which has 
 been offered to accomplish the object we have 
 in view would be pronounced sufficient ; but, 
 sir, I think I can see in the distance an effort 
 being made to distort every act of ours in 
 such manner as will give some little show for 
 
u 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, Jclv 13. 
 
 saying that our proceedings are irregular, 
 illegal, not warranted by the Enabling Act, 
 I have always found it the best plan, in draw- 
 ing up papers founded upon a statute, to fol- 
 low the precise language of that statute as far 
 as possible. When the language of the sta- 
 tute is adopted, there can be but little doubt 
 as to the construction that must be given. 
 Now, gentlemen might suppose that there 
 could be but little doubt as to the construc- 
 tion that must be given to the resolution as 
 originally drawn ; but, sir, there are certain 
 men who will resort to certain tricks to carry 
 out a certain purpose, and I have always 
 found it the better policy to be prepared 
 against every emergency, and to provide 
 against any possible misconstruction. I have, 
 in the substitute I have proposed, followed 
 the exact language of the Enabling Act. Let 
 us see : 
 
 Section third of the Enabling Act provides 
 that the Convention shall assemble at the 
 Capitol, on the second Monday in July, That 
 we have done — and shall determine by vote, 
 what ? "whether it is the wish of the people " 
 — that is English language — "whether it is 
 " the wish of the people of the proposed State 
 " to be admitted into the Union at this time." 
 That is the language of the Enabling Act, and 
 I think it will be well to incorporate that lan- 
 guage into thi^ resolution in such manner that 
 there can be no doubt left as to its construc- 
 tion or its legal effect. 
 
 The section goes on to provide that the 
 Convention shall then proceed to fonn a Con- 
 stitution and State government. When we 
 have adopted the resolution required in the 
 Enabling Act, we have the authority to go 
 on and form a Constitution, but not until 
 we have adopted it, I prefer the adoption of 
 the substitute, so that there sliall be no doubt 
 about the legality of our future proceedings. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I think the amend- 
 ment of the gentleman is too ambiguous. It 
 has no reference to the boundaries of the pro- 
 posed State. It makes no reference to the 
 Enabling Act. Now, sir, the substitute which 
 I proposed refers directly to the Act of Con- 
 gress under which we are here. It specifies 
 the inhabitants residing within the limits of 
 the proposed State, referred to in the Ena- 
 bling Act. If there is any surplusage in it, I 
 am willing to have it struck off. I want 
 
 nothmg but what is right, but I think the 
 amendment last offered is entirely too ambi- 
 guous. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. I was glad when the 
 Convention decided to bring this question re- 
 ferred to, up in committee of the Whole, for 
 two reasons : One was that the resolution, as 
 it then stood, was, in my judgmeut, imper- 
 fect ; and the other was that it was too com- 
 prehensive. The first resolution was brought 
 before us in a hasty manner, and we were 
 told that time was wanting, that we must get 
 through with what we have to do and go 
 home. Well, sir, I for one am opposed to 
 crowding everything into one resolution, I 
 wish to have questions in themselves separate, 
 decided separately. When we are to deter- 
 mine whether the people of Minnesota desire 
 to come into the Union upon an equal footing 
 with the original States, let us vote upon that 
 question alone, and not couple with it another 
 proposition to determine the boundary of the 
 proposed State. Let us vote for the first 
 proposition, upon which there is no difference 
 of opinion, and not couple with it another, 
 upon which there is a difference of opinion, 
 and in which my constituents feel a deep in- 
 terest. I hope the question will be taken 
 simply upon the proposition whether the peo- 
 ple of Minnesota desire to come into the 
 Union as a State. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. This is a question of 
 some importance. It is one upon which 
 great difference of opinion has heretofore 
 been expressed in the Territory of Minnesota, 
 and I wish simply to express my opinion up- 
 on it. The resolution of the gentleman over 
 the way [Mr. Stannabd], in my opinion, 
 covers the whole groimd. It is in fact this : 
 tliat the people of this Temtory agree to meet 
 here under the Enabling Act, and in accord- 
 ance with that act, I think that resolution 
 fixes the boundary of the proposed State. If 
 we accept the Enabling Act, we accept it as 
 a whole. If we reject a part of it, what 
 guaranty have wo that we do not reject every 
 part of it? Suppose tliat having come to- 
 gether under that act, elected under it, hold- 
 ing our seats by virtue of it, we imdertake to 
 repudiate it, is Congress bound any longer ? 
 They are bound now. Congress, or rather 
 the United States, lias done its part ; and now 
 we are bi process of doing our part. 1 1 is for 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Mosdat. Jilt iS. 
 
 15 
 
 us to put our signatures to the compact. Let ; 
 us fail to do that and we, as the other party, 
 violate the whole instrument, and the United 
 States are no longer bound. 
 
 Now, sir, whether this question of boun- : 
 dary is to come up afterwards or not is a { 
 serious one. Here we are cast where ? At ', 
 anchor. The United States, wliich has been ; 
 our guardian for a number of years gone by, 
 has now said to us in effect : " You are old 
 " enough to do for yourselves. Go and so do. 
 " We will give you no more appropriations. 
 " You must go and work your own way." 
 Now, suppose we go and tear up this propo- 
 sition which the United States offers, and 
 strike out in a new course, where shall we be 
 left? At sea, without compass or rudder; 
 perfectly at sea. "VTe make a Constitution 
 there, not under the Enabling Act ; we reject 
 that in the start, and go on our own hooks ; 
 we become squatter sovereigns of the deepest 
 dye. We say we will have our own boun- 
 daries, and the United States may.weU reply : 
 '• Gentlemen, if you reject om* proposition, 
 "you may support your own schools, you 
 "may build your own imiversity, you may i 
 " g^t your own five per cent, of the net pro- , 
 "ceetls of the sales of the public lands for 
 " public buildings." That is what the United 
 States would have the right to say. 
 
 But there is another view of this matter 
 which is important. The language of the 
 Enabling Act is peculiar. We become a 
 State as soon as we have complied with that 
 act The language is that they shall hecome 
 a Stnte when they have complied with the 
 terms proposed. All we have to do is to 
 adopt a Constitution that is consistent with 
 the Constitution of the United States, elect 
 our own oflScers, go to the door of Congress, 
 and demand admission, and we come right in. 
 We accept of the conditions proposed to us, 
 and eo imtante we are a State sovereignty of 
 this Union. But let us go to work and form 
 a Constitution upon squatter sovereign prin- 
 ciples, and they may become squatter sover- 
 eigns too. 
 
 Sir, I believe Congress has the right to 
 care for the Territories, and not only that she 
 has the right, but that it is her bounden duty. 
 So long as the men who live there go volun- 
 tarily on the land of the United States, take 
 its money and live under its protection, so 
 
 long it is their duty to submit to the guidance 
 of the United States. Children who cannot 
 walk, who cannot provide for themselves, 
 should not dress themselves in their parents' 
 clothes. 
 
 The door is wide open, and let us come in 
 on the terms proposed. I will not debate 
 the question of the r^tive advantage of a 
 north and south or east and west line. I am 
 content to tal:e this proposition as it comes to 
 us. Adopt that and we come into the Union 
 within the next year. Adopt another line 
 and we come in, who knows when ? Here ia 
 another question, and in this Republican Con- 
 vention, I need not hint what may be the 
 probable result. Next winter, in all proba- 
 bility, there will be an application to admit 
 Kansas into the Union. If we comply with 
 the terms proposed, we cannot be denied 
 admission without a breach of feith ; but let 
 us reject those terms, and we may be told 
 that We cannot come into the Union with our 
 free Constitution vmtil Kansas also comes in 
 with her slave Constitution. 
 
 So. far as the relative advantages of these 
 State lines are concerned, I have not deter- 
 mined in my own mind which carries with it 
 the greatest advantages. If anything, I think 
 the north and south line is the better line of 
 the two ; but whether that be so or not, we 
 came here as practical men, and as practical 
 men, let us not put into our Constitution 
 anything 'which shall endanger its acceptance 
 in Congress or by the people; for, let our 
 Constitution be rejected, and the expenses of 
 this Convention— $50,000, $60,000 or $100,- 
 000 — will have to be borne by ourselves, and 
 win be worse than thrown away. The people 
 of the Territorj' have, in my opinion, deter- 
 mined already that we shall have a north and 
 south line by electing delegates to this Con- 
 vention under an act prescribing that line. 
 And I take it for granted, that this line was 
 not adopted without a reason. It was adopt- 
 ed, after examining the geography of the 
 country, as the better line. A great many 
 wise men and good men acquainted with the, 
 coimtry, tell me that the north and south 
 line is the best line. Others, equally wise 
 and good, say that the east and west line is 
 better. But I submit it to this committee, 
 whether as Republicans and good citizens we 
 should not accept this proposition as it comes 
 
10 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, Jllt IS. 
 
 to us from Congress, with the boundaries de- 
 fined by Congress ? x\t any rate, let us dis- 
 cuss the question calmly and dispassionately, 
 and if gentlemen can show good reasons for a 
 different course, I have no feeling in the mat- 
 ter. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. If we, by a vote, deter- 
 mine that we will not accept the proposition 
 made by Congress, I presume our services 
 are at an end, and we have no authority here 
 whatever to go on and form a Constitution as 
 a Constitutional Convention. As such Con- 
 vention we have authority, by the Enabling 
 Act, to say nothing and do nothing as to an 
 east and west line. Congress has passed an 
 act, and made provision by which we may 
 come in as a State on an even footing with 
 the original States, provided that when we 
 assemble in this Constitutional Convention, 
 we say by a vote that we wUl accept the 
 terms proposed in that act. A refusal to ac- 
 cept them is equivalent to saying we will go 
 home, for surely no individual will sit here 
 after that refusal. If we do accept of the 
 terms, then, so far as the line is concerned, it 
 is fixed by Congress, and we can go on and 
 frame a Constitution. If we do not accept 
 them, we may as well go home and wait un- 
 til some other provision is made to enable us 
 to come into the Union on an equal footing 
 with the orignal States. 
 
 I have no interest in a north and south 
 line, any more than I have in an east and 
 west line ; but I have an interest, as a citizen 
 of the Territory of Minnesota, within the 
 boimds prescribed by the act of Congress, in 
 common with very many at least, to cease to 
 be a Territory, and to come in as a State; 
 and if I had any pecuniary interest in tMs 
 matter, I should sacrifice it in order to get 
 out of the condition in which we are now 
 placed. We cannot form a Constitution, ex- 
 cept for the limits prescribed by the Enabling 
 Act, and consequently I am in favor of ac- 
 cepting the terms of that act, and going on 
 and framing a Constitution. Suppose we re- 
 fuse to accept the terms, we may as well, as 
 I said before, go home. Suppose we do go 
 home, and to-morrow at twelve o'clock an- 
 other Convention, headed by a government 
 oflBccr, shall organize a Convention and accept 
 the proposed terms, they will go on — because 
 they will do almost anything illegal — and 
 
 frame a Constitution, submit it to the people, 
 and if the Republicans do not go out and vote 
 upon it, of course it will be adopted, and the 
 Republicans will have come here, organized, 
 but refused to do that for which they were 
 sent. For one, I do not feel like going home 
 in that way. I hope gentlemen of the Con- 
 vention will express their views freely upon 
 this point, and come to a determination as 
 soon as possible. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I desire to under- 
 stand where I stand, the position I occupy, 
 and the step I am about to take. It seems 
 to me that it does not require a great amount 
 of discrimination to discern between the right 
 of the inhabitants of a certain tract of land to 
 perform a certain act — for instance, to elect 
 certain individuals to represent them in Con- 
 vention — and the acts and conduct of their 
 representatives when assembled in Conven- 
 tion for the purpose of doing what they were 
 sent here to do. I do not understand, as 
 stated by the gentleman from Scott county 
 [Mr. Galbraith], that the moment we adopt 
 this resolution we become a State, and that 
 Congress has no right or authority to say 
 that we are not a State, and not entitled to 
 admission into the Union as a State. Sup- 
 pose that nothing had been done under the 
 Enabling Act, except the election of members 
 to the Convention, do we thereby adopt the 
 whole of that Enabling Act, so as to bind 
 ourselves to the limits proposed by that act ? 
 By no means. Suppose we simply convene 
 here, organize, choose our officers, and take 
 no further steps, do we adopt the provisions 
 of that act in such a manner as to preclude 
 ourselves from saying that we desire a difler- 
 cnt boundary? When we sunply say that 
 the people of the proposed State desire to bo 
 admitted into the Union on an equal footing 
 with the original States, do we say that we 
 adopt the limits proposed by Congress, and 
 that they are perpetually binding upon us as 
 a State ? I do not so understand it. If we 
 compare this act with the Enabling Act of 
 Michigan, wo shall find it substantially the 
 same. Yet it was not the understanding of the 
 Michigan Convention, organized under it, that 
 the limits proposed by Congress were perpe- 
 tually binding upon them, for if they had, in 
 my judgment, they would have recommended 
 a different boundary. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 13. 
 
 IT 
 
 I wish my finends to discriminate between 
 a State to be organized within the proposed 
 limits, and the vote we are now called upon 
 to ^ve, which is substantially that the people 
 of the proposed State desire a State organiza- 
 tion, and to come into the Union as one of the 
 States. "When we take this vote, and vote in 
 the affirmative, we are not, as I stated before, 
 a State, but we must go on and make a Con- 
 stitution. If we ne^ect to do that, are we a 
 State? Not by any means. Suppose We 
 frame a Constitution and neglect to have it 
 ratified by the people, are we then a State 
 standing upon an equal footing with other 
 States ? By no means. We are not a State 
 until certain resolutions are passed by Con- 
 gress, sanctioning our form of government as 
 being republican, and sanctioning our pro- 
 ceedings as being carried on under the Ena- 
 bling Act, 
 
 There is a distinction between the adoption 
 of this resolution, and the binding of ourselves 
 down perpetually to the proposed limits men- 
 tioned in the Enabling Act; and I want 
 members of this Convention to look upon it 
 in that light, if it looks reasonable to them. 
 
 I am in favor of adopting this resolution, or 
 something substantially the same ; of placing 
 ourselves in a position to frame a Constitu- 
 tion, and then of going before the people and 
 telling them that we have done oxur duty 
 faithfully. 
 
 If I were to prophecy, it would be that 
 nearly two years will elapse before we be- 
 come a State. My impression is that under 
 the present Administration, whatever Consti- 
 tution is adopted by tliis Convention, as at 
 present organized, that Constitution, though 
 ratified by a very large majority of the in- 
 habitants of the Territory, wiU not be ac- 
 cepted by Congress. For this reason, I de- 
 sire that this question and all other questions 
 be distinctly, perfectly and clearly imder- 
 stood. The idea that the moment we adopt 
 this resolution we are bound down to these 
 limits, is preposterous, and is not foimded in 
 either precedent, common sense, or thfe Ena- 
 bling Act. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. Whether the people of 
 this Territory have the right or not to meet 
 and frame a Constitution and State govern- 
 ment, without any assent upon the part of 
 Congress, I do not propose to discuss. But 
 
 the first part of this Enabling Act gives to the 
 people of certain portions of this Territory 
 the right to form a State Constitution. The 
 latter part of it, after giving the boimdaries, 
 reads thus : 
 
 "They are hereby authorized to form for thetn» 
 selves a Constitution and State government by tha 
 name of the State of Minnesota." 
 
 Now, the Enabling Act does not give to 
 the Territory of Minnesota the right to form 
 this government, but only to the inhabitants 
 of a specific portion thereofl In our reason- 
 ings then, \ve hold that members elected and 
 returned in precincts beyond the proposed 
 boimdaries, cannot sit in Convention. Now, 
 if they cannot, because they are beyond the 
 proposed boundaries, how can we, within the 
 proposed boundaries, legislate for those we 
 would exclude frt)m certain boundaries ? 
 
 The third section provides for the election 
 of delegates, and the latter clause of it tells 
 us that when we meet, we are to " determine 
 " by a vote." "Who to meet ? The delegates 
 chosen within the boundaries of the proposed 
 State. "What to determine? ""Whether it 
 " is the wish of the people of the proposed 
 " State to be admitted into the Union at this 
 time," as such proposed State. " As such," 
 to be sure, is not expressed, but it is imder- 
 stood. And if they do so determine, they 
 "shall proceed to form a Constitution, and 
 "take all necessary steps for the establish- 
 " ment of a State government." 
 
 Again, the fourth section says that " in the 
 " event said Convention shall decide in fiivor 
 " of the immediate admission of the proposed 
 " State into the Union, it shall be the duty of 
 " the United States Marshal for said Territory 
 «' to proceed to take a census." Now, if we 
 propose to form a State with boundaries dif- 
 ferent from those proposed in this act, the 
 Marshal is not obliged to take a census. 
 
 The fifth section offers certain propositions 
 to the " said Convention of the people of Min- 
 " nesota." If the people accept the offered 
 boimdaries, then the people of that Terrritory 
 shall have the right to do so and so. 
 
 There are questions which, in my mind, 
 outweigh the question of boundary; and it 
 occurs to me that, if we desire an immediate 
 adnMssion into the Union as a sovereign State, 
 we have but one road to pursue — we must 
 accept of tiie conditions without change. 
 3 
 
18 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES -Monday, July 13. 
 
 Think you the Republicans in Convention in 
 Minnesota, can dictate to our superiors not 
 only in the Territory — I speak of them as 
 oflScers and not as men — but to an Adminis- 
 tration which will be adverse to the ruling of 
 this Convention, and succeed ? Certainly not. 
 Hence my vote now is, and always must be, 
 to accept, without restriction or enlargement, 
 •the conditions imposed upon us by the Ena- 
 bling Act. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. The second resolution is 
 offered as a substitute for the first, and, as a 
 •substitute, is amendable. For the purpose 
 of harmonizing the feelings of those here who 
 may be in favor of different boundaries, I 
 ■propose to offer an amendment to the substi- 
 tute. I do not conceive it necessary or wise, 
 -at the present time, to raise the question of 
 boundary at all. For my own part, I proba- 
 bly agree with both parties. I believe that 
 Congress has the right to prescribe our 
 boundaries, if they so choose. I believe also 
 that we are not required to pursue that boun- 
 dary and that only ; yet, if we vary from it, 
 we may be rejected. I do not believe it 
 necessary, before a Territory assumes a State 
 .government, that there should be any Ena- 
 bling Act, nor do I suppose that if there be, 
 we must follow it out in minutia. We may 
 make such changes as we see fit, and then 
 Congress may act upon it. But at the pres- 
 ent time, I do not wish to raise the question 
 of boundary at all. I wish to accept the act 
 unqualifiedly, I will read the Enabling Act, 
 and then read my amendment, which I hope 
 will be satisfactory , to all parties, and do 
 away with this question for the present Sec- 
 tion three, after first stating how the dele- 
 gates shall be elected and where they shall 
 meet, says they shall "first determine by 
 " vote whether it is the wish of the people of 
 " the proposed State to be admitted into the 
 " Union at this time, &c." 
 
 That is what we are to vote upon and 
 nothing else. Now, I propose the following 
 substitute : 
 
 " Resoli>ed, That it is, at this time, the wish of 
 the people residing within the limits designated 
 in the act of Congress approved 
 
 entitled ' an act to authorize the people of 
 the Territorj- of Minnesota to form a Constitution 
 and State government, preparatory to their ad- 
 mission into the Union on an equal footing with 
 
 the original States,' to be admitted into the Union 
 upon an equal footing with the original States." 
 
 This amendment is framed in the very 
 words of the Enabhng Act. That is all, I 
 think, that is necessary in this case. It 
 leaves the matter of boundary untouched. 
 If we must discuss it at all, this is not the 
 time to do so. No man can feel that this re- 
 solution will prejudice us, because it was the 
 very language of the Enabling Act. I would 
 like to see this adopted as a substitute, and 
 the others waived, not because I differ from 
 them altogether, though each is objectionable 
 in some respects. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. So far as the substitute 
 of the gentleman from Winona [Mr. Wilson] 
 is concerned, I really do not understand that 
 it differs from the resolution as proposed to 
 be amended by Mr. Coggswell. Each is 
 simply a declaration that the people of Min- 
 nesota desire to become a State. It seems 
 that we are acting under a certain act of 
 Congress, which provides that the people 
 shall meet on a certain day, elect certain dele- 
 gates to appear at a certain time and place to 
 perform certain business. Now, it seems to 
 me a very plain matter that, if the people had 
 met on any other day than the one specified 
 in the act, we should not be delegates such 
 as could act under this Enabling Act. It 
 also seems to me that if the delegates elected 
 had met at any other place than the one de- 
 signated in the act, they could not make a 
 Constitution such as Congress would accept. 
 Congress has provided for our coming into 
 the Union upon certain conditions, and the 
 moment we comply with all those conditions, 
 we become a State. Whenever we step out- 
 side of the limits specified in that Enabling 
 Act, we cease to be delegates competent to 
 act under the law, but should be here simply 
 as an independent body of men, without dele- 
 gated power. Yet, under such circumstances, 
 should we form a Constitution which should 
 be ratified by the people, and Congress should 
 be willing to admit us after examining the 
 matter, it would be all right. But Congress 
 says that after we have done certain acts wo 
 are a State. They will have to take cogni- 
 zance of our proceedings, and unless they 
 can show that we have stepped outside of the 
 privileges they gave us, we shall have a right 
 to claim our place in the Union with all the 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Mosdat, Jclt 13. 
 
 !»• 
 
 i^ts and privileges of States. Such seems 
 to me to be the whole matter, and I must 
 support the original resolution, rather than 
 the substitute, not because they essentially 
 differ so much as because I am opposed to 
 encimiberiug our proceedings by a succession 
 of resolutions of substantially the same effect. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. By the Enabling Act, we 
 are to determine by a vote whether the peo- 
 ple in the proposed limits vrish to come in as 
 a State, according to the Enabling Act. Does 
 the resolution say " according to the Enabling 
 "Act?" " ' 
 
 The PRESIDING OFFICER. It does not 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. Well, it seems to me that 
 the question whether the dividing line shall 
 nm east and west or north and south does 
 not properly arise in this debate. The ques- 
 tion is simply whether the people in the pre- 
 scribed limits wish to come in as a State. It 
 is not a question as to the particular form of 
 the State, or whether anybody outside of 
 those limits wish to come in as the proposed 
 State. If any gentleman here knows of any 
 one who does not wish to come in as the pro- 
 posed State, let him say so. We are to 
 determine the simple question whether the 
 people within the prescribed limits have such 
 a wish ? Let that be first determined, and 
 we can decide the shape of the State after- 
 wards. I presimie no man's constituency 
 desires not to come in as a State. I know 
 there has been a question as to how the line 
 should be run, but as to the other matter 
 there is no question. 
 
 I see no difference between the ori^al 
 resolution and the substitute offered by the 
 gentleman firom Winona [Mr. Wilsox]. At 
 any rate, I agree with him that the question 
 as to the line is not iDvolved in this proceed- 
 ing. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I conceive that there is a 
 question of vital importance involved in the 
 resolution before the Convention, and in re- 
 ference to which our constituents are looking 
 to us with great interest to know exactly how 
 we cast our votes thereon. They are looking 
 with deep interest to see in what mode and 
 manner this Convention will dispose of the 
 boundaries of the incoming State. I can see 
 nothing in the Enabhng Act which would 
 prescribe any measure which this Convention 
 might see fit to take hereafter to establish an 
 
 east and west or a north and south line. The 
 resolution should leave that matter an open 
 question. The question to-day seems to be, 
 are we wiUing to become a sovereign State ? 
 and to that question I answer, as an indivi- 
 dual member of the Convention, " yes," and 
 for it I heartily give my vote. I am aware 
 that the eyes of the whole Territory are upon 
 us to see what measxu^s will be taken in 
 this Convention in reference to the proposed 
 limits of the State. I conceive that it is bet- 
 ter for us, imder the peculiar circumstances 
 by which we are svurounded, to assume the 
 ground at least to-day that we will become a 
 State, for if we leave without so doing, a 
 great advantage may be taken of our ne^ect. 
 Our constituents demand immediate action, 
 and will blame us if we postjwne it. K we 
 cannot come at once to a conclusion upon 
 this point, I conceive it would be far better 
 for this Convention to dissolve itself, rather 
 than remain in committee forty-eight hours to 
 discuss a question which seems to be the 
 turning point — and that is whether we wish 
 to become a State. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. The gentieman upon my 
 right [Mr. Wilsox] gives, as the first reason 
 why we should support his amendment, that 
 this is not the time to decide the question of 
 the boimdaries of the State. I cannot agree 
 with him in that respect. I believe that this 
 is the time to meet the question, and to meet 
 it fully and fairly. I beheve it should be de- 
 cided now, in the incipient stages of our pro- 
 ceedings. Suppose that we simply declare 
 that the people of the proposed State desire 
 to be admitted into the Union at the present 
 time, without defining the boundaries in any 
 way or manner, what will be the result so far 
 as it relates to our action '? Suppose we ap- 
 point, among other committees, one upon 
 " boundaries," and they should make a re- 
 port, which should be adopted in the Con- 
 vention, in favor of an east and west line, 
 what would be the result ? We should find- 
 men in this Convention living without the 
 limits of the proposed State, and consequent- 
 ly having no right to participate in the pro- 
 ceedings of this Convention. If they have 
 no right to participate in our proceedings, we 
 shall be under the necessity of excluding 
 them. 
 
 It is true, as gentlemen have argued, thai 
 
fO 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, Jclv 13. 
 
 we can, if we choose, adopt different bounda- 
 ries from those prescribed in the Enabling 
 Act ; but the effect of such a course would 
 be most serious upon the acts of this Con- 
 vention. The Enabling Act commences in 
 these words : " That the inhabitants of that 
 " portion of the Territory of Minnesota which 
 "is embraced within the following limits," 
 and then proceeds to define the boundaries 
 precisely. The third section provides " that 
 •*' on the first Monday of June next, the legal 
 "voters in each representative district then 
 "existing within the limits of the proposed 
 "State." What proposed State? The one 
 proposed within the bpundaries prescribed in 
 the first section, and the voters within those 
 limits, are the ones entitled to elect delegates 
 to the Convention. They have thus far com- 
 plied with the provisions of the act, by elect- 
 ing delegates. If we, in Convention, estab- 
 lish a different line, we repudiate the act, cut 
 ourselves loose from it, and release Congress 
 from all obligation upon their part, so far as 
 this act is concerned. If, _assuming different 
 boundaries, we go on and frame a Constitu- 
 tion and State government. Congress may or 
 may not accept us, as they choose. But 
 there will not be even an implied obligation 
 upon their part. I believe the people have 
 the right to frame a State Constitution with- 
 out an Enabling Act of Congress, but having 
 accepted it by electing delegates, it seems to 
 me the height of folly to cut ourselves loose 
 from it, and adopt a course which is not ex- 
 pected of us by our constituents. I propose 
 to meet this question before we proceed any 
 further, and if any members of the Conven- 
 tion have to leave their seats on account of 
 our decision, adopting another line, let them 
 know it, so that they may leave now. So fiir 
 ae my own feelings are concerned, they are 
 in favor of an east and west line ; but I am 
 .•satisfied that if we cut ourselves loose from 
 the act, there will be the best possible excuse 
 on the part of Congress for rejecting us. ' 
 
 The Enabling Act itself passed by a very 
 Rmall majority, and the Southern vote was 
 quite unanimously against it. If we send a 
 Constitution to Congress with different boun- 
 daries, ^nd thereby distract the small major- 
 ity by which we got this act, the probability 
 is that we shall be rejected by Congress, and 
 kept out of the Union two or three years 
 
 longer, a result which would suit quite a large 
 portion of this Union. For one, for the pur- 
 pose of having my preferences gratified, I am 
 not billing to run that risk ; and, therefore, I 
 shall be obliged to vote against the resolution 
 of the gentleman from Winona [Mr. Wilson], 
 upon the ground that it avoids a decision of 
 the question of boundary, and because I de- 
 sire a resolution to be adopted which will 
 embrace exactly the boundaries defined in 
 the Enabling Act. 
 
 The question was then taken on the sub- 
 stitute offered by Mr. Wilson, and it was 
 not agreed to. 
 
 The question was next taken upon the 
 substitute offered by Mr. Coggswell, and 
 there were on a division, ayes 15, noes 31. 
 So the substitute was lost. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I now move that the 
 committee rise and report back the original 
 resolution to the House, wdth a recommenda- 
 tion that it be adopted. , 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 So the coromittee rose, and the President 
 having resumed the chair, Mr. Noetii reported 
 back the resolution, with a recommendation 
 that it do pass. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I now move to amend 
 the resolution by striking out the word " in- 
 " habitants" and inserting the word "peo- 
 " pie," and by striking out the words " pro- 
 " posed limits" and inserting the words 
 " proposed State." I have no feeling in this 
 matter. I only wish to place the resolution 
 in a position where it cannot be misconstrued. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I shall be very brief, but 
 I cannot consent that this resolution should 
 pass without expressing myself distinctly. I 
 am a little astonished at the course which has 
 been taken by this Convention. I should 
 much preferred to have seen a resolution 
 passed which would have complied with the 
 requisitions of the Enabling Act, without 
 raising the question of boundary at this time. 
 
 Wc have not the full number of delegates 
 elected to tliis Convention present, and it 
 seems to mo it would be much better, if it is 
 not absolutely requisite, that there should be 
 something like unanimity in the passage of a 
 resolution of this kind. All of us are in favor 
 of coming into the Union under the J^nabling 
 Act, but all of us are not in favor of coming 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 13. 
 
 21 
 
 in according to tlie teiins of the Enabling Act. ; 
 And why is this boundan' question forced \ 
 • upon us in this manner ? It is for the pur- | 
 pose of compelling us to adopt the proposed j 
 boundary, in order to corflply with the terms 
 of the act relative to our ^ish to come in as a I 
 State. It is for that purpose, and members , 
 feeling like myself upon this question do well | 
 to understand it distinctly. It is here for the 
 purpose of compelling us to act without pre- 
 paration. "We are most, if not all of us, here 
 not expecting that we should be called on to 
 act on this boundary question at this time. 
 We have thought of it but a few horns, and 
 we are not read}- to decide it. It should not 
 be decided without full deliberation. 
 
 Sir, I know the origin of the boundary line 
 laid down in that Enabling Act. I know its 
 inception m Congress. I know how it got 
 there. I know it was not the ^-ish of the 
 people of Southern Minnesota — and we are 
 no small minority in the Territory. Mr. Pre- 
 sident, representing a constituency who feel 
 deeply upon this subject, I protest against 
 this question being decided in such a resolu- 
 tion as this. It is imnecessary. "We may 
 pass a resolution which shall in every respect 
 comply with the requisitions of the Enabling 
 Act, without touching the question of boun- 
 dary at all. 
 
 But it has been said that this boundary 
 w^ was inserted in the Enabling Act, in pur- 
 "* suance of the petitions which were sent from 
 the Territory. No sir. There was no such 
 thing. The largest nimiber of those peti- 
 tions went from Winona and the coimtry 
 adjacent, and ninety out of a hundred of the 
 signers were in favor of an east and west line. 
 The parties who signed those petitions pro- 
 tested against their being used as induce- 
 ments for the establishment of a boundary 
 to which they were opposed. 
 
 Sir, our interest, we conceive, will not be 
 satisfied with a north and south line. We 
 have to-day witnessed scenes in this hall 
 which will be reenacted, if this boundary line 
 be confirmed. And why? It is notorious 
 that Saint Paul has controlled the Territory 
 of Minnesota up to this time. They have 
 done it, how ? Have they done it as rowdies 
 and blackguards or as gentlemen, by forca of 
 moral suasion and force of reason ? Answer, 
 ye delegates, answer, for ye know. The rea- 
 
 sons are obvious why this should not be a 
 State extending from Superior to the Iowa 
 Une. The southern portion of this State is 
 all agricultural. The interests of its inhabi- 
 tants are diverse from those of Saint Paul, 
 and from those of the northern section of the 
 Territory. Adopt the north and south line, 
 and Saint Paul will forever have the manage- 
 ment of the State in her own hands. It must 
 necessarily be so, and what discord will it 
 create in our Legislatures ? We shall have 
 to meet this [thing year after year. I warn 
 gentiemen to beware before they act. The 
 favorers of this north and south line have 
 taken us at the very commencement, and 
 with the very best feeling towards them, I 
 say let us meet them too at the threshold, 
 and not permit this important question to be 
 decided without mature deliberation. That 
 is aU I ask. I am willing that the Conven- 
 tion should act promptly, so far as is neces- 
 sary to comply with the requisitions of the 
 Enabling Act ; and I shall be ready and wil- 
 ling to meet the question of boundary here- 
 after when it shaU arise. The point I wish 
 to make now is, that it is imnecessary at this 
 time to decide the question. 
 
 Mr. BOBBINS. At the present stage of 
 our proceedings, I do not feel that I could 
 do justice either to myself or my constituency, 
 were I to undertake to answer the arguments 
 that have been introduced here to-day in favor 
 of a north and south line. It is a subject I 
 did not anticipate would be opened at this 
 stage of oiu- proceedings. But, gentlemen, 
 all I ask is that you will allow this subject 
 to go over AntiU to-morrow, and we will be 
 ready to meet you upon this north and south 
 line. I hope the resolution will be laid on 
 the table until that time. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I concur fully in the senti- 
 ment of the resolution before us; but its 
 form, it seems to me, is somewhat compli- 
 cated. I think perhaps the phraseology may 
 be improved in some respects, leaving the 
 meaning precisely the same. I have pre- 
 pared a substitute, which I will read to the 
 Convention, if it is in order : 
 
 " Jiesolved, That it is the wish of the people of 
 the proposed State of Minnesota to be admitted 
 into the Union at this time, in accordance with the 
 provisions of the act of Congress entitled ' an act 
 to authorize the people of the Territory of Minne- 
 sota to form a CoiistitutioD and State government, 
 
22 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, Jilt 18. 
 
 preparatory to their adinissiofi into the Union on 
 au equal footing with the original States.' " 
 
 This is substantially the same in meaning 
 as the resolution now before the Convention, 
 and it contains the provision that the State 
 shall be admitted in accordance with the 
 terms of the Enabling Act. If the resolution 
 is in order, I should like to say a few words 
 in connection with it. 
 
 I wish to say in regard to the form, that I 
 hardly deemed it necessary to say " we the 
 " delegates, &c." This is a regularly organ- 
 ized body, and our action as a body speaks 
 for itself. 
 
 Now, sir, in regard to the provisions of the 
 resolution, it seems to me that the reasons 
 which have been urged for accepting the pro- 
 position of Congress, according to the terms 
 of the act passed by Congress, are good. It 
 seems to me that insurmountable difficulties 
 will arise and multiply in our path, if we at- 
 tempt to step aside from the plan laid down 
 for us, and change the boundaries of the pro- 
 posed State. These difficulties have been 
 stated, and it seems to me they are serious 
 ones, and ought to have weight in the minds 
 of the members of the Convention, as they do 
 have weight in the minds of the people at 
 large. I believe a decided majority of the 
 people of the Territory are in favor of accept- 
 ing the terms of the Enabling Act, with the 
 boundaries as therein defined. I believe it 
 would be unsafe to depart from them for 
 many reasons. 
 
 We know how strenuously that* Enabling 
 Act was opposed in Congress. We know 
 how strenuously one section of the Union 
 opposes anything like the admission of a free 
 State into the Union. Instances of this are 
 too numerous to need reference to, and it 
 seems to me it does not need argument at 
 this time, in the face of these facts. It is 
 true that precedents have been cited for this 
 course, but gentlemen vnl\ bear in mind that 
 the present times are not like those we have 
 seen. The time has been when such ques- 
 tions could be discussed dispassionately in 
 Congress, but I think that time is not the 
 present. That time does not exist now ; and 
 we have to do with facts as they exist, and 
 as they will exist when we come to apply for 
 admission into the Union. 
 
 Now, sir, I have never been able to get up 
 
 any feeling upon the subject of this north and 
 south or east and west line. The arguments 
 are very strong on both sides, and I have but 
 little choice in the matter ; but the question 
 having been settled *t)y Congress, it seems to 
 me it is the act of wisdom to accept of the 
 proposition as it is. 
 
 The gentleman from Winona [Mr. Wilson] 
 has alluded to the way we are treated here in 
 Saint Paul, and to the political aspect of 
 affairs in case this boundary is adhered to. 
 Now, Mr. President, I have ever been op- 
 posed to carving out States for the success 
 of this or that political party , but I ask gen- 
 tlemen Mho are in favor of such a course, 
 what permanent gain they are to expect from 
 it ? Those who are initiated have seen how 
 rapidly changes take place here in the West. 
 The aspect of things to-day is no sure crite- 
 rion of what the aspect of things vnll be to- 
 morrow. I cannot believe that Minnesota, 
 with her north and south line, will be other 
 than right; but if so, let us struggle on. 
 Besides, I think we should feel an interest in 
 the northern section of the Territory. But I 
 do not think considerations of this nature 
 should influence us in any degree. We 
 should take a practical view of the subject, 
 and judge of it in all its bearings. 
 
 But I will not take up the time of the Con- 
 vention. In reply to the suggestions which 
 have been made that gentlemen need more 
 time to consider this subject, I have to say 
 that this question has been pretty thoroughly 
 discussed in the last six months, and that 
 there is no need for further consideration. — 
 The question is a very plain one. We should 
 pass upon this question at once, and in my 
 judgment, pass upon it as a whole, though I 
 would by no means wish to injure the feel- 
 ings of any member who wishes further time 
 for consideration. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. We have very little 
 time in which to discuss this question. Our 
 Southern Minnesota friends, seem, some of 
 them, perhaps all of them, to urge a change 
 in this Enabling act. Now, sir, the wisdom 
 of that policy has not been shown to one in 
 this Convention. What are the reasons urged 
 in support of it? What are the reasons 
 urged by my friend from Winona (Mr. Wil- 
 son) ? Why, that St. Paul is going to con- 
 trol this territory. Well, sir, if I stand here 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES-^Ioxday, Jilt 13. 
 
 ss 
 
 alone, and Saint Paul undertakes to drive me j 
 from hence, they wiU walk over nij- dead 
 body before I leave this room. "We do not 
 intend to be brow-beaten by St. Paul. "We 
 are the last men who should cry out: "afiraid 
 " of St. Paul ! " TTe need no protection firom 
 those who rushed in hereto-day, cried out ''I, 
 " move to adjourn," and th^n ran out again. 
 — Did that scare us? Let them come on, 
 we are ready to die in our tracks rather than 
 yield. (Applause.) We, afraid of St. Paul ! 
 "Who is St. Paul? (Laughter j Let them 
 come. Vi'e have no guns, no pistols, no 
 slung shots, but we are ready to meet them, 
 and wiU not be driven fi-om this hall. 
 
 But suppose you adopt the East and West 
 line, will not St. Paul still be within the lim- 
 its of the proposed State? How can you 
 avoid it? If we had the power to annex it 
 to "NVisconsin, (laughter) we might rid our- 
 selves of %her by that means. But adopt 
 which line you will, St Paul will be with us 
 any how. 
 
 And, sir, I do not concur in this wholesale 
 condemnation of St. PauL There are good 
 men, noble men here, plenty of them ; men 
 who will protect you at all times and under 
 all circmnstances, and who always have done 
 so. I see some of them even in this halL I 
 can point them out all over town. St. Paul 
 is not a nest of vipers. I do not believe it 
 But to those who complain that St. Paul has 
 always made trouble in the Tenitory, that 
 she is a political eye sore to the Republican 
 party, I have to say that we are not to frame 
 a Constitution for the Territory and for St. 
 Paul as they now are, but we are to firame a 
 Constitution for our children and our chil- 
 dren's children. .:ind what matters it whether 
 the St Paul of to-day is Democratic or Re- 
 publican ? 
 
 In reference to the propositions before us, 
 I can see no difierence in substance what- 
 ever. They are the same thing in fact. I 
 am in favor of adopting one of them without 
 further delay, and we shall then be ready to 
 proceed with our work. Let the matter of 
 the boundary line stand for weeks and what 
 do we gain by it ? How much infOTmation 
 will you receive. Let the Convention accept 
 this proposition as it comes to us, and then 
 if a majority are in favor of an East and 
 West line, at the end of the Convention, we 
 
 can send a Memorial to (.^ongress, praying 
 them to change the boundary ; and that will 
 be the end of the whole matter. I think the 
 Convention should adhere to the proposition 
 just as it is at this time, as a precautionary 
 measure, as a measure of safety. I beg the 
 pardon of the Convention for occupying so 
 much of their time. I say it with the utmost 
 respect for the gentleman from Winona, (Mr. 
 Wilson) but I do not think St Paul is quite 
 as bad as he represents it, or at least not 
 quite so dan^rous. 
 
 Mr. KING. The question hes right here : 
 The gentleman wants to know what objec- 
 tion we have to the Xorth and South line. — 
 Well, sir, as a representative for Southern 
 Minnesota, I will make the solemn predic- 
 tion, that if we go on and frame a Constitution 
 with this North and South line, the people 
 wiQ repudiate the Constitution, and we shall 
 remain out of the Union for a year or two 
 longer. I do not apprehend any danger from 
 this change of boundary. Certainly we shall 
 lose nothing by asking. "When did you ever 
 know a little boy to get less by asking, than 
 would have been given to him without ? We 
 shall lose nothing by asking for this East and 
 West hne. 
 
 Now, sir, Congress passed this Enabling 
 Act, and how did they pass it ? If we are to 
 believe a statement which has been going the 
 roimds of the papers, they got to log rolling 
 and one of the Senators from Ga.. [Mr. 
 TooMBs] supported this specific boundary as 
 it now stands, for a specific "purpose. Sir, 
 oiur Supreme Court Judges have determined 
 in favor of the nationality of that abomina- 
 tion which we detest, and now by accepting 
 in fiill this Enabling Act, we are subscribing 
 I to an act that will unavoidably send to the 
 I Senate of the United States two supporters 
 ; of that abomination. 
 
 ' But we must make our choice, and I ask 
 I gentlemen which they will do ? I do not un- 
 1 derstand Congress in the Enabling Act to 
 ! decide what we must do. It tells us what 
 j we may do, and Congress will not object to 
 an\-thing of this kind which we deem to be 
 
 j . o , 
 
 I right. I am willing to take the risk we shall in- 
 j cur. Sir, the delegation fi"om Southern Minne- 
 I sota have been trying to have this question come 
 j up by itself upon its own merits before the 
 I Convention, but they have been fofled thus 
 
2i 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 13. 
 
 far. I hope that wc shall have a fair expres- 
 sion of the opinion of tlic Convention up- 
 on it. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I evidently spoke so as 
 not to he understood by the two gentlemen 
 who immediately followed me. I did not wish 
 nor do I now wish, to be understood as de- 
 siring to form a State which wiU be a Re- 
 publican or a Democratic State, or to be at 
 all influenced by the political complexion of 
 those who are to live in it. I desire merely 
 to form such a State as will meet the inter- 
 ests and wishes of those who are to live in it, 
 and especially of my own constituency. 
 
 As to this thing of being afraid of St. 
 Paul, I see nothing in the remarks of the 
 gentlemen (Mr. Galbbaith) pertinent to any 
 thing I have said. I have alluded to no such 
 fear. If there is any necessity of meeting 
 the enemy, I will go as far as he who goes 
 farthest to maintain our rights. It is not ne- 
 cessary to ai'gue that question, and I do not 
 want to argue it. There are sometimes things 
 which, though we do not fear them, are annoy- 
 ing, and we desire for that reason to avoid 
 them. That is all I have to say on that point. 
 
 But that is not the only objection to this 
 North and South line, and the reason why I 
 do not go further into a statement of the ben- 
 efits of the East and West line is, that I know 
 the delegates coming here understand the 
 benefits arising from the adoption of that 
 boundary but where is the necessity of set- 
 tling this question now and in this connec- 
 tion ? No gentleman has said that it is re- 
 quired in order to comply with the requisi- 
 tions of the Enabling Act, by settling that 
 question in such a resolution as this, which 
 we all desire should be passed with unanim- 
 ity. 
 
 The amendment of the gentlemen from 
 Rice County [Mr. Noeth] cuts just as deep 
 as the other, but a little smoother. It is a 
 species of legislative trickery to connect in 
 one bill different projects. You may like one 
 measure very much, and because you do, I 
 make you go for another you do not like, in 
 order ^to get what you do like. Leave us to 
 Ray now only M'hether we will not come in as 
 a State or not, and then afterwards by what 
 boundaries. They arc two distinct proposi- 
 tions, and should be submitted to us sepa- 
 rately. Many members of the Convention 
 
 now appear for the first time in a legislative 
 bod3^ They are not acquainted with the 
 mode of doing business. Sometimes they are 
 misled. But everj^thing can come up sepa- 
 rately and all will be right. I do not wish to 
 submit to doing something I dislike, because 
 it is yoked with something I like. Separate 
 them and let us have the wishes of the Con- 
 vention distinctly and fairly expressed and 
 that is all I ask. These are my opinions. I 
 have not argued the benefits of the North 
 and South or the East and West line because 
 we all undestand them. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. In regard to this trickery 
 of forcing two questions at once, I wish to 
 say that the thing has been tried separately. 
 The amendment of the gentleman from Steele 
 County brought the question before the Con- 
 vention in a separate form, and his amend- 
 ment was voted down. I had supposed, 
 therefore, that the Convention had decided 
 they would take them together. Supposing 
 they had come to that conclusion, I thought 
 the wording of my substitute was a httle 
 more direct than the original, and that is the 
 reason I proposed it. It was not done for 
 the pm-pose of concealing any thing ; not for 
 the purpose of trickery ; nor for the purpose 
 of forcing through two things together, which 
 would not pass separately. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I did not intend to im- 
 pute trickery to the gentleman who has just 
 taken his seat. I meant to say, and did say, 
 that this method of tacking together bills 
 discordant in their provisions, and passing 
 them together, is a species of legislative trick- 
 ery — that the practice was legislative trick- 
 ery — and the gentleman stated very fairly 
 that he did not consider that the two provis- 
 ions necessarily went together. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. It may be thought, from 
 the position I took upon the -amendment 
 of the gentleman from Winona Mr. [Wilson] 
 that I was endeavoring to force action upon 
 this question. My idea was that this Con- 
 vention should first decide this question as to 
 the wish of the people, — not that I desire ac- 
 tion upon it to-day, if more time is desired. 
 There arc gentlemen here who feel that they 
 owe certain duties to their constituents, 
 whose views and feelings should bo repre- 
 sented fairly and fully before the question is 
 taken, Those gentlemen desire more time 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, Jclt 18. 
 
 89 
 
 for investigation, and I am the last person 
 that would deprire them of that privilege. 
 
 Speaking for the County which I have the 
 honor in part to represent, I do not believe 
 that the people of Southern Minnesota are 
 going to reject the Constitution which we 
 form, on account of the boundaries which 
 we may establish, whether by an East and 
 "West, or a North and South hne. Fillmore 
 County \frill vote for Ihe Constitution, if it be 
 Republican, regardless of the boundary of 
 the State. Neither do I fear political consid- 
 erations. Give Southern Minnesota her fair 
 representation in proportion to her inhabit- 
 ants, and St. Paul may do her best, politi- 
 cally. I think that the question of pohtical 
 power should not influence us. I am ready 
 to concur in any action gentlemen may de- 
 sire, and give them suitable time to investi- 
 gate this question ; but I shall insist that the 
 question of boundary' should be settled before 
 we proceed to any other business of the Con- 
 vention. 
 
 The question recurring upon the substitute 
 of Mr. North — 
 
 Mr. "NViLsox demanded the yeas and nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being taken there were yeas 41 and 
 nays 15 as follows: 
 
 J€(M— Messrs. Aldrich, Aver, Balcombe, Baldwin, 
 Bates, Bartholomew, Billings, Bolks, Butler, Cleg- 
 horn, Colburn, Coombs, Dooley, Dickerson, Esch- 
 lie, Foster, Galbraith, Hall, Hayden, Harding, Han- 
 son, Holly, Kemp, Lisle, Lowe, McKune, Messer, 
 Morgan, Murphy, North, Perkins, Putnam, Peck- 
 ham, Russell W. F., Stannard, Secombe, Smith, 
 Vaughn, Walker, Winell, and Watson. 
 
 Nays — Messrs. Anderson, Coggswell.'Coe, Ce- 
 derstam, Davis, Folsom, Gerrish, Hudson, King, 
 JIantor, McCann, McClure, Robbins, Thompson, 
 •nd Wilson. 
 
 So the substitute was adopted. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I do not like to be troub- 
 lesome, and if things stood in any diflferent 
 shape, I would not oflfer a substitute. The 
 substitute adopted stands instead of the orig- 
 inal resolution, and is stiU open to amend- 
 ment. The reason why I offer a substitute 
 is, that it appears to me that there ought to 
 be a majority of the whole number of dele- 
 gates to this Convention, in favor of this res- 
 olution, which majority evidently cannot be 
 obtained if the two questions are connected 
 together. My amendment is this : 
 
 ; " Reaolced, By the House of delegates duly 
 
 '. " elected by the pebple of the Territory of Minne- 
 
 " sota residing within the limits described by the 
 
 " act of Congress approved entitled " An act 
 
 i " to authorise the people of the Territory of Min- 
 i " nesota to form a Constitution and State Govern- 
 " ment, preparatory to their admission into the 
 " Union on an equal footing with the original 
 : " States," assembled at the Capitol of said Terri- 
 I " tory, do hereby determine that it is the wish of 
 ! " the people of the proposed State to be admitted 
 
 i " into the Union at this time." 
 
 I 
 
 I I use the very language of the act, and 
 
 j nothing else. 
 
 I Mr.STANNAED. If I sought to defeat 
 I this amendment I would throw myself upon 
 : parliamentary J)ractice, We have had sub- 
 : stitute upon substitute. The gentleman from 
 Winona [Jlr. Wilsox] is very anxious about 
 I this question of St. Paul. The first question 
 to settle is the boundaries of the future State. 
 I live and represent a constituency north of 
 the proposed East and West line, and I could 
 not sit here with satisfaction to my conscience, 
 or credit to myself, and claim that I had a 
 right to participate in the formation of a Con- 
 stitution for a people living in a State formed 
 from Southern Minnesota, I claim that the 
 first question to be decided is that of the 
 boundary-, and if that question is to engage 
 our attention day after day, we might as well 
 adjourn immediately sine die. I do not be- 
 lieve that we would be admitted into the 
 Union with boundaries different from those 
 prescribed in the Enabling Act ; and aU the 
 time and money we spend here to change 
 those boundaries, will be thrown away. I 
 think that those who tiilnk with me, have 
 conceded considerable, and I ask the gentie- 
 man from Winona to concede as much. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I wish it to be distinctiy 
 imderstood, that it is my opinion, and has 
 been ever since I saw the Enabling Act, that 
 the best thing we can do is to come into the 
 Union under that act, and to take the boun- 
 daries Congress has proposed. I am aware 
 that there is a feeling in Southern Minnesota 
 adverse to it, but in my neighborhood, every 
 man is of the opinion I have expressed. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I design to vote for the 
 amendment of the gentleman from Winona, 
 so that if we are to have an accession of 
 members to-morrow, they may participate in 
 the question of settling the boundary of th« 
 
26 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Mo:«dat, Jult 18. 
 
 proposed State. If those delegates should 
 not come into the Convention to-morrow I 
 shall be ready then to vote upon the question 
 of boundary. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. The fourth section pro- 
 vides that after this question is decided, the 
 Marshal of the Territory shall proceed to 
 take a census. Now to show the gentleman 
 that it is impossible to separate those two 
 questions, suppose we leave this question un- 
 decided to-day, what inhabitants shall the 
 Secretary of the Interior order the Marshal 
 of Minnesota to take the census of? 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I have said that if we 
 are to have no accession to our numbers to- 
 morrow, I shall be willing to vote upon the 
 question of boundary then. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. It is true these are two 
 separate questions, yet I cannot see the ne- 
 cessity of their separation, or even the con- 
 sistency of a separation. 
 
 The question was then taken on the amend- 
 ment offered by Mr. Wilson, and it was not 
 agreed to. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH moved a reconsidera- 
 tion of the vote just taken, stating that he 
 did so at the request of the mover of the 
 amendment in order that a vote might be had 
 thereon by yeas and nays. 
 
 The question was taken and the motion to 
 reconsider prevailed. 
 
 The question recurring upon the amend- 
 ment, on motion of Mr. GALBRAITH the 
 yeas and nays were ordered; and being taken, 
 there were yeas 16, and nays 38, as follows: 
 
 Yeas — Messrs. Anderson, Balcombe, Billings, 
 Colburn, Coe, Davis, Dooley, Gerrish, Hudson 
 King, Mantor, McCaun, McClure, Robbius, Thomp- 
 Bon, and Wilson. 
 
 yays — Messrs. Aldrich, Ayer, Baldwin, Bates. 
 Bartholomew, Belles, Butler, Cederstani, Coombs, 
 Dickerson, Eschlie, Foster, Folsom, Galbraith, 
 Hall, Hayden, Harding, Hanson, Holly, Kemp, 
 Lisle, Lowe, McKune, Messer, Morgan, Murphy, 
 North, Perkins, Putnam, T*eckham, Russell, Stan- 
 nard, Secombe, Smith, Vaughn, Walker, Winell, 
 and Watson. 
 
 So the amendment was lost. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I caU for the previous 
 question. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. Before that is done I de- 
 sire to move to strike out the word "ap- 
 
 pojved " as we are not able to fill the 
 
 blank, and the act is suflBciently referred to 
 without those words. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 The previous question was then seconded, 
 and the main question ordered to be put ; and 
 the question being taken upon the resolution 
 as amended, it was adopted. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE moved to reconsider the 
 vote by which the resolution was adopted. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 ORGANIZATION OF THE CONVENTION. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I move that the written 
 request, in response to which this Conven- 
 tion was called to order by Mr. North, be by 
 him presented to the Secretary of the Con- 
 vention, and that the same be entered in its 
 appropriate place upon the journals of this 
 Convention. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. lam opposed to that 
 motion. I do not think the written request 
 of any account, and I do not desire to encum- 
 ber the Journal with anything that is not per- 
 fectly pertinent to our proceedings. Any 
 gentleman had the right to call the Conven- 
 tion to order. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 CNESUS OF the TERRITOKT. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR offered the following reso- 
 lution ; 
 
 " Besohed, That the Secretary of this Conven- 
 tion be, and is hereby instructed to notify tho 
 United States Marshal, that the Convention has 
 complied with the Enabling Act, and that he be 
 respectfully requested to take such steps as are 
 provided by law, to comply with said act." 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I would suggest that tho 
 resolution be amended by stnking out the 
 words "that this Convention has complied 
 "with the Enabling Act" and inserting in 
 lieu thereof the words "that this Convention 
 " has decided upon the immediate admission 
 "of the proposed State into the Union, ac- 
 " cording to the conditions of the Enabling 
 Act." 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I have but one word 
 to say. This resolution calls on the Secre- 
 tary of the Convention to notify the Marshal 
 of the United Stiitcs for the Territory. Now, 
 according to the terms of the Enabling Act, 
 the Marshal of the Territory is to take the 
 census according to the fonnsand regulations 
 prescribed by the Secretary of the Interior, 
 and I will guaranty to every member of the 
 Convention, that if the Marshal of this Ter- 
 ritory is informed of only just what is con- 
 tained in that resolution, he might pocket it. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tcesdat, Jcly 14. 
 
 and cany it for two years without censure. 
 The only proper course is for the President 
 to procure a copy of the resolution attested 
 by the Secretary, and transmit it immediately 
 to the Secretaiy of the Interior. This Con- 
 vention has no control over the Marshal. He 
 acts under the Secretary of the Interior. — 
 For one, I should very much object to having 
 anything of this kind go on the Journal. It 
 would appear to the detriment of the members 
 of this Convention. I think we had better 
 pursue the course I have indicated. It is the 
 only correct one. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I do not know but the gen- 
 tleman is correct. I have just prepared an' 
 amendment to meet his suggestion, that the 
 President procure a copy of the resolution 
 which the Convention has passed, and trans- 
 mit it to the Secretary of the Interior. I 
 think, too, that it will be well for the Secretary 
 of the Convention to notify the Marshal for 
 the Territory, who is to take the census. I 
 move this as a substitute for the resolution : 
 
 *' Riiohed, That the President of this Conven- 
 tion procure a copy of the resolution alBrming the 
 wishes of the people of the proposed State to be 
 admitted into the Union as a sovereign State, 
 properly attested by the Secretary, and tr. nsaiit 
 the same forthwith to the Secretary of the Inte- 
 rior ; and that the Sec'y of the Convention be re- 
 quested to notify the U. S. Marshal for this district, 
 that this Convention has decided in favor of the 
 immediate admission of the State of Minnesota 
 into the Union, and that he be requested to take 
 such steps as are provided by law to comply with 
 said act." 
 
 The amendment was adopted, and the res- 
 olution as amended was th^n passed. 
 
 The Convention then took a recess imtfl to- 
 morrow morning at 9 o'clock. 
 
 SECOND DAY. 
 
 TlTESDAT, JCLT 14, 1857. 
 
 The Convention re-assembled at 9 oclock, ; 
 
 I 
 
 Mr. WM. H. MILLS presented his creden- | 
 tials as a delegate from Ohnsted County; ' 
 which were referred to the committee on Cre- 
 dentials. 
 
 The committee subsequently reported that 
 the credentials were regular and Mr. Mills 
 entitled to a seat. Mr. Mills was thereupon 
 qualified by taking the usual oath of office, 
 
 and his credentials ordered to be placed on 
 the Journal. 
 
 STAXDISG COMMITTEES. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL offered a resolution in 
 reference to raising certain standing commit- 
 tees on the different subjects proposed to be 
 embraced in the Constitution ; which was re- 
 ferred to a select committee, consisting of 
 Messrs. Coggswell, Colbitrx, Cleghobx, 
 NoBTH, RoBBixs, and Eschlie. 
 
 COSTESTED SEAT. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN presented the petition of 
 Chables B. Sheldox, claiming the right of 
 being admitted to a seat in the Convention as 
 the delegate duly elected from Hennepin 
 Countj- iix, place of R. P. Rcssell; which was 
 referred to s( select committee, consisting of 
 Messrs. Mobgax^ Smith, and Coggswell. 
 
 BCLES. 
 
 Mr. WILSON from the select committee on 
 Rules, reported a code of rtiles for the gov- 
 enmient of the Convention ; which after con- 
 sideration and amendment were adopted. 
 
 Pending the consideration of the report of 
 the committee on Rules, Mr. FOSTER moved 
 that, as the sergeant-at-arms was absent, 
 Wm. H. Shelly be appointed sergeant-at- 
 arms j!>ro tempore. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and thereupon 
 Mr. Shelly was duly qualified by taking the 
 oath of office. 
 
 On motion, the sergeant-at-arms, was di- 
 rected to select such assistants as he might 
 deem necessary to assist him in the discharge 
 of his duties. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The chair would take 
 this opportunity to remark that if the dele- 
 gates who are legally entitled to seats in this 
 Convention were all present, and the editors 
 and reporters who have been admitted within 
 the bar were all present, all the seats would 
 be occupied, and as it is expected as a matter 
 of course, that those delegates will at some 
 time take their seats, it is the order of the 
 President that the sergeant-at-arms and his 
 assistants permit no one to enter within the 
 bar of the hall except members or those who 
 have credentials to present in order to become 
 members of the Convention, and the report- 
 ers and editors who have been already admit- 
 ted. It is not the intention of the President 
 in giving this order to debar any one who 
 claims a seat in this Convention, but to admit 
 
28 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, July 14. 
 
 all such that they may present their creden- 
 tials, but it is the intention to keep from 
 within the bar outsiders who have no right 
 inside of the bar. To do so is a matter of 
 convenience and necessity, from the fact that 
 the room is small and hardly sufBcient to ac- 
 commodate the members who are entitled to 
 seats within the bar. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR submitted the following res- 
 olution which was considered, and adopted. 
 
 " Besolved, That two hundred copies of the 
 Eules governing this Convention be printed in 
 pamphlet lorm ibr the use of the members, with 
 the names of the members, their post office ad- 
 dress, town county and council districts, together 
 with the names of tlie standing committees." 
 
 [The proceedings were here interrupted by 
 the appearance of Mr. C. L. Chase at the 
 door, who, as Secretary of the Territory, 
 demanded the hall for the use of the Consti- 
 tutional Convention. 
 
 The PRESIDENT repUed that that body 
 was now in session and in possession of the 
 Hall. 
 
 Mr. CHASE. Then you will not give up 
 the Hall? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. Certainly not. 
 
 Mr. Chase then retired.] 
 
 COMMITTEE ON KEPOBTING. 
 
 On motion of Mr. NORTH the President 
 appointed a committee of three to employ re- 
 porters to report the debates of the Conven- 
 tion as follows : Messrs. Nobth, Cedebstam, 
 and Watson. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN, from the Committee on the 
 petition of Chaeles B. Sheldon to be admit- 
 ted as delegate to a soat on this floor, submit- 
 ted a report recommending that the prayer of 
 the petition be granted and Mr. Sheldon be 
 admitted as a delegate. 
 
 The report was read. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I have but a word to 
 say upon this matter. I have little doubt in 
 regard to the facts. I have myself received 
 one of these affidavits signed by one of the 
 judges of election, which was made out by 
 myself, and I believe them every way worthy 
 our confidence. 
 
 [A communication was here received fix»m 
 Rev. E. D. Neill, Chaplain elect, which was 
 laid on the table.] 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I desire to know whether 
 this report states that the votes rqected by 
 
 the judges of election designated whether they 
 were for representative district, or delegate at 
 large ? 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. It does, and we have 
 given copies of the votes themselves. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I move that the resolution 
 reported by the Committee be adopted. 
 
 The resolution was read as follows : 
 
 "Besolved, That Charles B. Sheldon is enti- 
 tled to a seat in this Convention from the nth 
 district, and as such should be admitted upon the 
 proper application being made. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I would inquire if Mr. 
 Russell, who, I understand, received the cer- 
 tificate of election, is present ? I am not in 
 favor of deciding this case without giving him 
 an opportunity of being heard. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. These affidavits I 
 know, and I believe them, but they are ex- 
 parte affidavits, and are only sufficient to open 
 the contest. I believe that Mr. Sheldon is 
 entitled to a seat in this body. I have no 
 doubt as to the equity and legality of his 
 election, but there is another {)erson I under- 
 stand, claiming a seat here by virtue of a 
 certificate. Now, sir, I am willing, and I 
 think this Convention is willing, that every 
 member having a certificate shall come in 
 here, take his seat, and be treated fairly and 
 honorably. Let him have his seat on fair 
 honorable and equitable terms. No member 
 of this Convention has ever intimated that 
 any man who comes here duly elected, with 
 the sign and seal of the people upon his for- 
 head, shall be rejected. Rather than reject 
 any man who was . fairly and honorably 
 elected, I am satisfied every man here would 
 leave this hall. Whether he be in the major- 
 ity or minority it matters not. We wish no 
 fictitious majority. We have here now, I 
 believe, fifty-seven members with legal cer- 
 tificates, under the sign and seal of the proper 
 election officers, whose seats can only be con- 
 tested by legal and proper means. Other 
 gentlemen who have the same kind of certifi- 
 cates can come and present them, and there 
 is no man here who would reject them. If a 
 certaia set of men professing a certain set of 
 principles, find themselves in tlic majority, let 
 that majority rule, whether it be republican 
 or democratic. Let no fictitious majority be 
 created. Let the people's voice come up 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tiesday, July 14. 
 
 29 
 
 here and be heard. "We wish for nothing but 
 what is right, but we ask what is right. 
 
 Mr. SnELDOS comes here and asks for a 
 seat in thLs Convention. He has no certifi- 
 cate, but he presents evidence that he is a 
 legally elected delegate. I believe that evi- 
 dence, every word of it. But it is exparte 
 evidence, and as such, is entitled to no weight 
 for the present, except to admit him to con- 
 test his seat. I say, therefore, that for the 
 present we ought not to admit Mm to a seat 
 in tliis Convention. There has been, it is 
 said, no investigation upon the part of the 
 gentleman holding the certificate, but he 
 should have the opportunity of being heard 
 here. I do not wish to be factious in this 
 matter, but it seems to me it is the duty of 
 the Convention not to act hastily. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I wish to state to the Con- 
 vention that Mr. Russell is a friend and neigh- 
 bor of mine, and that he told me on Saturday 
 last, his certificate was made out by the 
 proper authorities, but he had declined to re- 
 ceive it for the reason that he had not received 
 a majority of the votes cast, and was not 
 fairly elected. Mr. Sheldon has presented a 
 certain petition here and has filed certain pa- 
 pers. There is nothing unfair in that, but in 
 view of the circumstances, I think it is due 
 to Mr. RcssELL that he should have an oppor- 
 tunity of establishing his right to a seat here 
 if he wishes so to do. I move, therefore, that 
 the report be recommitted to the committee 
 with instructions to notify Mr. Russell imme- 
 diately that his seat is contested, and report 
 as soon as practicable. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I want to say that I do not 
 fully understand the course which it is pro- 
 posed to pursue here. I am as far from 
 wishing to hasten a measure of this kind as 
 any gentleman present, but I look upon the 
 matter in this hght : We are not supposed 
 to know what is going on outside of this hall. 
 We are not supposed to know that any gen- 
 tleman has, or claims to -have, a certificate of 
 election to this body, until he comes and pre- 
 sents it. How is this Convention to know 
 that Mr. Russell has any claims to a seat here 
 imtil he comes and presents them ? Common 
 fame, common report says that he has, and I 
 have no doubt that if we go into an investi- 
 gation of the matter, we shall find that Mr. 
 RcssELL was a candidate, and was offered a 
 
 certificate of election ; but have we any offi- 
 cial information upon which we can properly 
 base such action ? If so, are there not other 
 cases here which demand like action ? I say 
 again, if Mr. Russell does not ask a hearing 
 before this Convention ; if he does not come 
 here and present his certificate or claim a seat 
 here ; is it incumbent on this Convention to 
 run after him ? I know Mr. Rusbell well ; 
 I believe him to be a highly honorable man, 
 and I have no doubt that imder the circum- 
 stances, he does not claim a seat as a mem- 
 ber of the Convention. As I understand it, 
 there is no question but that Mr. Sqeldox 
 had, strictly, legally and technically, a major- 
 ity of the votes cast. That evidence is be- 
 fore us. We have heard that Mr. Russell 
 does not claim a seat here ; that he declines 
 ; to receive a certificate ; and I ask then if it 
 I is necessary, on the part of the Conven tion, 
 i to consult Mr. Russell on the subject ? 
 I Mr. HAYDEX. I think the testimony be- 
 fore us is sufficient to warrant the action which 
 it is proposed to take. The fact that Mr. 
 Sheldon has no certificate is evidence in 
 itself that some other person has. And as 
 the evidence before us is purely exparte, I think 
 it much the best and most judicious course to 
 refer the report back as has been proposed. 
 Mr. FOSTER. WhUe I have no doubt 
 that Mr. Sheldon, the petitioner, in this 
 case, is entitled to a seat here — while I have 
 no doubt that he has received too, a majority 
 of the votes cast, and that those votes them- 
 selves stated on their face whether they were 
 for Council or Representative Delegate, as 
 is certified to by the Judges of Election, 
 and that the failure so to specify in the returns 
 was purely a clerical error, yet, as has been 
 said, the very fact that he comes here without 
 a certificate is of itself evidence that some one 
 else has such certificate. Now, sir, while we 
 might go on, and perhaps it would be just 
 and right to do so, and on the information we 
 have that Mr. Sheldon is legally and fairly 
 entitled to his seat, close up the case at once 
 and give it to him without further delay ; yet 
 t prefer to err in the opposite direction. I 
 prefer to give Mr. Russell the fairest possi- 
 ble chance, so that he could not say we took 
 advantage of his absence to prejudge his case. 
 I hope therefore, the motion of the gentleman 
 from Hennepin [Mr. Aldbich] will prevail 
 
30 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES -Tuesjay, July 1*. 
 
 We are here, so lo speak, in a peculiar sit- 
 uation. Composing as we do, a large major- 
 ity of the delegates elected in Mmnesota to 
 this Constitutional Convention ; yet we know 
 that a minority portion of those also elected 
 at the same time to this body, have seen fit 
 not to come here, or if they did come they 
 went out as suddenly as they came in. They 
 disappeared like a meteor shot across the sky 
 of as little substance, shedding as little light 
 on their erratic path. 
 
 Those who hear me are well aware of the 
 difficuties which from the start encumbered 
 the preliminary organization of this Conven- 
 tion. . The Enabling Act was entirely silent 
 as to the Tiour when the Convention should 
 meet, and the Legislature having also neg- 
 lected to name the hour, we were at a loss 
 what to do. Legally, the moment Sunday 
 went out and Monday came in, the Conven- 
 tion, or even a minority of its members, could 
 meet at the Capitol, and make a preliminary 
 organization. From the threats in the demo- 
 cratic presses prior to our meeting here, from 
 the bravado of democratic leaders since the 
 arrival of most of the members, the Republi- 
 can portion of this body had good reason to 
 believe that there were desperate men enough 
 amongst the democratic minority, to meet 
 here at midnight, to organize here at midnight, 
 and to adjourn from time to time until they 
 obtained a quorum, and to claim, on account 
 of such midnight organization, because it was 
 the first organization on the appointed day 
 for meeting, a precedence over any other or- 
 ganization that might be afterwards set up in 
 broad day -light by the Republican majority ; 
 and though I do not say that such a course 
 would primarily be participated in by all of 
 the members of that party, yet I know enough 
 of those timid souls who might not, to induce 
 me to believe that after the deed was com- 
 mitted, they would " let it slide," and profit 
 by the wrong which their bolder but less hon- 
 orable colleagues had perpetrated. They 
 would console themselves with the argument, 
 that the thing was done, could not now be 
 helped, and it was best to " acquiesce " in the 
 proceeding, much as they disliked it ! Thus 
 warned of the intentions, of the peculiar pro- 
 clivities of their Democratic brethren, the 
 Republican mernbers met together in caucus 
 on Saturday evening, July lUh, to consult on 
 
 the best means of overcoming the difficulty 
 in regard to the uncertainty about the hour 
 for the meeting of the Convention. They de- 
 termined, in the first place, that they, the ma- 
 jority would not attempt to organize until af- 
 ter broad day-light on Monday morning, the 
 13th, being the day appointed bj' the Enabling 
 Act. They next determined, that they would 
 take precautions to prevent the Democratic 
 minority from attempting to organize before 
 that time, or during the darkness of early 
 Monday morning, without the knowledge of 
 the Republican members; and be read}'', in case 
 they did so attempt, to frustrate the scheme. 
 As a means of precaution, they determined 
 to meet in caucus in the Council chamber oi 
 the Capitol, at 12. o'clock, midnight, between 
 Sunday and Monday morning; and there 
 watch for and pray over our Democratic 
 brethren. But for any unexpected contingen- 
 cy, such, among other things, as the Demo- 
 crats evincing a willingness in some precise and 
 reliable form, to pledge themselves not to meet 
 until a specified hour, an Executive commit- 
 tee was appointed by the Republican caucus 
 with discretionary powers ; and the Republi- 
 can caucus adjourned to meet in the Council 
 chamber at 12 o'clock, a. m., on Monday morn- 
 ing, as I have before stated. Nothing oc- 
 curred until Sunday evening, when one of the 
 Executive committee being at the FuUer 
 House where others of that committee board- 
 ed, accidentally met there Ex-Governor Gor- 
 man, and had a talk with him about the pos- 
 sibility of coming to an understanding with 
 the Democratic members as to an hour of 
 meeting. Governor Gorman said the Demo- 
 cratic members were just about going into- 
 caucus in No. 15, and he would communicate 
 with them on the subject. He did so, or ap- 
 peared to do so, passing several times back- 
 wards and forwards between a portion of the 
 Republican committee hastily gathered, (some 
 from their beds,) and the Democratic caucus 
 in No. 15 up stairs. The result of his peri- 
 grinations was, that the hour of meeting should 
 be at 12 o'clock at noon, on Monday; and 
 that a paper should be drawn up wliich the 
 Republican committee should sign, on the 
 one hand, and the members of the Democratic 
 caucus, on tlie other, mutually pledging their 
 sacred honors to organize at that hour and 
 not before. By request, I drew up such a 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tcesdat, Jclt 14. 
 
 81 
 
 paper, -which Governor Gokman' took up into 
 their caucus, to see if it was all right in form. 
 He brought it down stairs, .«yiid it would do, 
 and requested us to sign it fii*st. All of the 
 Execit ve committee present did so; and he 
 took it up with him into their caucus ; and, gen- 
 tleman, that is the last we ever saw of it ! — 
 We waited a long time to see it come down 
 with the signatures of the Democrats upon it; 
 but we waited in vain. They knew a trick 
 worth two of that. When they did finally 
 adjourn their Sunday caucus, about 11 o'clock 
 on Sunday night, and came down stairs in a 
 body, Governor Gokmax handed the Repub- 
 licans a resolution signed by the oflBcers of 
 the caucus, in which, in return for our posi- 
 tive pledge to meet at 12 o'clock the next day, 
 they said they would "meet at the vsiial hour 
 for the assembling of parhamentary bodies m 
 the United States.'' Indignant at this unfair 
 evasion, the Republican committee at once, on 
 the spot, denounced this as a subterfuge ; as 
 not the understanding, and declared that they 
 would not be bound by it. They demanded 
 their written pledge back again ; and it icas 
 refused! Now, what were the Republicans 
 to do imder these circumstances? To be 
 spared the necessity of a long night vigil, in 
 the Capitol, was the earnest desire of us all ; 
 but this dishonorable evasion, made it still 
 more evident that the only course for us to 
 pursue, was that of " eternal vigilance." It 
 was plain that the Democrats were playing 
 last and loose with us — that they were in for 
 all the chances. That having tricked us into 
 pledging a certain hour for meeting they kept 
 themselves ready to take advantage of any 
 circumstances that might arise by the loose 
 and doubtless well considered phrase of the 
 *' vsual hour ! " Now, sir, that " usual hotu-" 
 means anything, everything, or nothing, just 
 as you happen to want. It may mean 9 
 o'clock, which is the hour our rules fix for 
 the daily sessions of this Convention ; or it 
 may mean 10 o'clock, the usual hour for the 
 meeting of the Territorial Legi.'^lature ; or it 
 may mean 12 o'clock, the usual hour at which 
 Congress assembles. 
 
 Well sir. the Democrats having thus adopted 
 a sliding scale, while the Republicans had 
 offered to agree to meet at precisely 12 o'clock, 
 M., on Monday, the latter had but one re- 
 source; for, sir, sent here by an intelligpnt. 
 
 earnest and fearless constituency, the Repub- 
 lican Del^ates were not the men to be coaxed, 
 or driven, or humbugged, firom their position. 
 It was their intention, as it was their instruc- 
 tions from their people, to stand by their 
 rights, to stand by them in a legal manner, 
 but to stand by them with all the means which 
 God and nature, and the constitution of their 
 country had given them. 
 
 I repeat, sir, under the circumstances we 
 had but one course to pursue, and that we 
 took. Pursuant to our adjounmient on Sat- 
 urday evening, we met in caucus in the Coun- 
 cil Chamber of this Capitol as soon as possi- 
 ble afler the clock had struck twelve on Sun- 
 day night ; and we continued there all night, 
 not to do anj-thing, although we had a majori- 
 ty of aU the members elected present ; but to 
 prevent any imdue advantage being taken of 
 us by the other side. Let no man say we 
 were not justified in apprehending that the 
 Democratic delegates would attempt to take 
 such advantage. Why, then, it may be asked, 
 did they not come forward and meet our 
 proposition for twelve o'clock on Monday 
 noon as the hour for organization, in a manly, 
 straight-forward way ? Why the contempti- 
 ble evasion of the " usual hour ?" But in 
 addition to these signs of a disposition to take 
 advantage, it is a matter of history that the 
 same party in the State of Ohio, under the 
 lead of the present Democratic Governor of 
 this Territory, once met in legislative session 
 in Coliunbus, at midnight of the day fixed for 
 the meeting of the Legislature, and kept pos- 
 session of the legislative hall day and night 
 for two or three weeks, and aU this to obtain 
 political power and nullify an apportionment 
 bin passed by a previous Legislatxire — and, 
 sir, they succeeded. How did we know that 
 that was not the "usual hour" meant by them 
 — for this precedent showed it was an " usual 
 hour" with the Democracy of Ohio, and as 
 the party in this Territory had the same 
 oflBcial leader, could we suppose Ohio mid- 
 ni^t fashions would not be imposed on us 
 here in Minnesota ? Yes, sir, I repeat, we 
 were justified in mistrusting them, and by ap- 
 prehending in time their designs, fiiistrate 
 and prevent them. 
 
 Well, sir, the Republican members contin- 
 ued in the Coimcil Chamber until after day- 
 light, — in fact until afler the doors of the 
 
82 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, Jclt 14. 
 
 Convention Hall were unlocked by the work- 
 men, who, who under the employ of this 
 Democratic Admistration, were arranging and 
 furnishing it for the reception of the Delegates 
 to the Constitutional Convention. It was not 
 until the doors were thus unlocked, that a 
 single member of an}^ party took a seat in this 
 Hall. And how, sir, did the Republican mem- 
 bers enter it then ? Why, sir, they dropped 
 in singly, after going for their breakfast and 
 returning; entered it in broad day -light, not 
 organized, not in a body, not rushing in lilce a 
 mob, but calmly, quietly, and without noise 
 or confusion. They selected their seats, and 
 some of the Democratic members came in and 
 selected their seats also ; and all was going on 
 peaceably and quietly. Between 9 and 10 
 o'clock, the Democratic delegates met in cau- 
 cus in the office of the Secretary of State 
 down staus in this Capitol. Whether the 
 more respectable amongst them were ashamed 
 of the evasion of their caucus the evening be- 
 fore — or whether to blind the Republicans to 
 their designs and prevent them from proceed- 
 ing to organize the Convention, before they 
 were ready to make the grand rush that they 
 subsequently did, this caucus adopted and 
 communicated to the Republican members 
 the follo^^^ng resolution. 
 
 " July 13, IS"?- 
 . " Regolved, That the Democratic members of the 
 Constitutional Convention in caucus, do hereby 
 confirm the position of the Democratic members 
 last evening, and will concur in the proposition to 
 meet at 12 o'clock, M. of this day, the usual hour 
 for the assemblage of parliamentary bodies in the 
 United States. 
 
 M. SHERBURNE, Chairman. 
 C. L. Chase, Secretary." 
 SiE : It will be observed, that this resolu- 
 tion alludes to and establishes the fact, at- 
 tempted to be disputed, that the " Democratic, 
 members" were in caucus on the Sunday even- 
 ing previous ; and it tries to relieve them from 
 the evasive " position" they had taken by 
 interpreting the usual hour to mean 12 o'clock ! 
 and at this hour they now pledged them.selves 
 to meet. I want to call attention to another 
 feet, which still more strongly shows that there 
 vias a " caucus of the Democratic members" 
 the previous Sunday evening. This is, that 
 the caucus which adopted the resolution just 
 read, appears to have been only the adjourned 
 caucus from the night before ; for the game 
 
 persons were President and Secretary of both, 
 as will be seen by this copy of their commu- 
 nication to the Republican members at the 
 Fuller House on Sunday evening, when they 
 played the trick about the " usual hour." It 
 is, sir, as follows : 
 
 " Gextlemex: — The Democratic members of the 
 Constitutional Convention now present will be 
 governed as to time and place of meeting by the 
 usual rules governing the assemblage of parlia- 
 mentary bodies in the United States. 
 
 M. SHERBURNE. 
 
 (?. L. Chase, 
 
 W. A. Gorman. 
 
 To Messrs. Balcombe and others." 
 
 What followed, sir, the communication of 
 the resolution by them on Monday morning ? 
 The first thing- we witnessed, .sir, was that a 
 person, acting under Democratic orders, came 
 into this Hall with a small hand ladder, 
 mounted up to the Hall Clock facing your 
 desk, sir, and went through all the motions of 
 taking it apart, regulating it, and then setting 
 it agoing according to their own time. Not a 
 Republican hand, sir, touched that clock; 
 and we sat here, foohshly trusting in the good 
 faith of our opponents, that at 12 o'clock M. 
 by the time piece regulated by themselves, 
 they would meet with us here and proceed in 
 a proper manner to organize the Constitutional 
 Convention. How vilely they broke their 
 faith — how dishonestly they violated their hon- 
 or — you all know. All will bear me witness, 
 that at 17 minutes lefore the time fixed by 
 themselves, — 17 minutes before, by the Hall 
 Clock — they rushed in here in a body — 
 like a mob — some 38 or 40 of them — with a 
 man at the head of the name of Chase, who 
 claimed to unite in his one person, the various 
 functions of Secretary of the Territory and 
 Acting Governor, and making some pretence 
 also to a seat in the Convention. He, Chase, 
 by evident pre-arrangement, sprang unex- 
 pectedly into the Speaker's desk, and com- 
 menced calling the Convention to order. Say- 
 ing " As Secretary of tTie Territory of Minne- 
 sota, I call" — But before he could get his 
 words out even this far , Mr. J. W. North, a 
 duly elected and certified delegate, who had 
 previously been requested in writing by a ma- 
 jority of all the members elect to the Conven- 
 tion, to call the body to order, was by his side, 
 had called the Convention to order, had nom- 
 inated Thomas J. Galbbaith as temporary 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, Jilt 14. 
 
 3S 
 
 Chairman, and had put the motion before Mr. 
 Chase could call his mob to order. As soon 
 as he had done so, Willis A. Gorman at once 
 made a motion to adjourn. 
 
 The motion was put by Mr. Chase, and 
 declared by him carried. And thus a body, 
 as they called themselves, without being 
 organized, without a Secretary or record of 
 proceedings, adjourned and rushed out of the 
 room as they had rushed in. We, a majority 
 of the Convention remained, and have pro- 
 ceeded ever since upon our course, and are 
 ready at all times to receive members who 
 come with credentials, no matter to what 
 party they belong, and give them seats in this 
 body. We have endeavored to act, and have 
 acted fairly throughout ; and as I said before, 
 we have nothing to reproach ourselves with, 
 and nothing to take back. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I wish to state for the 
 information of the gentleman from Rice 
 county, and others, that there is evidence here 
 that a certiJBcate of election is made out for 
 Mr. RussELU I have seen it myself, and I 
 am opposed to acting decidedly in this case at 
 this time, for the reason that we have no 
 means of knowing but that Mr. Rcssell may 
 make his appearance here and ask to take his 
 seat. We have no means of knowing but 
 that he may be absent on account of sickness. 
 I will also state that there is a neighbor of 
 Mr. Russell now here, who will take to him 
 any communication from this Convention this 
 afternoon. I not only want the Convention 
 to do no wrong, but to avoid even the appear- 
 ance of wrong. 
 
 The question was then tak^i, and the mo- 
 tion was agreed to. 
 
 So the report was referred back to the 
 committee. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I suppose I am not strictly 
 in order in speaking when there is no ques- 
 tion before the Convention, and I will not do 
 so if any gentleman has objection. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The genUeman will 
 proceed, as no objection is made. 
 ^ Mr. NORTH. There have been a few 
 remarks made in Convention which I think 
 quite likely to excite some feeling upon the 
 part of people outside of the Convention, 
 and perhaps on the part of some within the 
 Convention. Such remarks, it seems to me, 
 are not desirable, are injudicious and inexpe- 
 5 
 
 dient. We are all aware of the circvunstan- 
 ces vmder which we meet ; that there is feeling 
 in others as well as in ourselves. "VVhen men 
 view the same thing from different points of 
 observation, it is very common for them to 
 perceive the same points in different lights ; 
 to judge of it differently, and at the same 
 time honestly. The human mind is capable, 
 I had almost said of any absurdity, and what 
 may seem to us absurd, may seem to others 
 not so absurd, and it becomes us, in exciting 
 times, to be as forbearing in our judgment, 
 and in our language as possible. I regret to 
 have heard any remarks in this Convention 
 derogatory to the motives, feelings, or views 
 of those outside of the Convention, or of 
 those who differ with us in regard to the or- 
 ganization of the Convention. Though they 
 may choose to take a course differing from 
 ours, I beUeve every man here is firm and 
 decided in the opinion that our course is the 
 proper one, the regular one, and the right one. 
 Let us be satisfied with that and go straight 
 forward in the discharge of our duties, with- 
 out turning round to charge wrong upon those 
 who differ with us. I hope we shall be so 
 inclined to do, and I believe that such is the 
 feeling of the Convention generally ; and our 
 good judgment will teach us the propriety of 
 acting upon that feeling. 
 
 A word in regard to St. Paul : Some re- 
 marks have been di'opped in reference to her 
 which I regretted to hear. We aU have our 
 views in regard to different places in our Ter- 
 ritory. We may have our prejudices, but we 
 have assembled in this Convention for a more 
 dignified purpose than that of passing enco- 
 miums or censure upon the people of any 
 place. St. Paul like other places, has its good 
 and its bad men. The good are not respon- 
 sible for the bad, and some whom we may call 
 bad, may not be as bad as we imagine. It 
 becomes us to be forbearing in our censures 
 of any, and as charitable as we can be to all. 
 Things have transpired in St. Paul wliich de- 
 serve encomium, and if she were a theme of 
 discussion in this Convention, much might be 
 said of which she might be proud. But St 
 Paul is not on trial, and it does not become us 
 to censure her. There are noble men in tliis 
 city, as I have had occasion to know within 
 the last six years, and I feel pained when I 
 hear them censured. I know the remarks to 
 
M 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wedmesday, Jult 15. 
 
 which I allude were not intended to fall upon 
 the good men of this city, but upon another 
 class, whose deeds even the people of St. Paul 
 regard with disapprobation. But such remarks 
 cause unpleasant feelings, and we should be- 
 ware how we digress into any remarks of that 
 nature. We should conduct ourselves with 
 the proprieties of the place and the object for 
 which we are assembled. , 
 
 I hope that nothing I have said will be con- 
 strued into a censure of any remarks which 
 have been made. My remarks are not so in- 
 tended, but simply as a suggestion for the 
 future. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. With the consent of the 
 Convention I wish to say that I perfectly 
 agree with the remarks of the gentleman who 
 has just taken Ms seat. They are my senti- 
 ments, but better expressed than I should 
 have expressed them. I regretted to hear 
 some remarks which have been made here. — 
 My views of our proper course are that we 
 should go straight forward, calmly, dignifiedly, 
 and firmly, as though nothing had happened ; 
 that we should treat every man with cour- 
 tesy, do our duties as we have sworn to per- 
 form them, drawing in no side issues, but 
 attending strictly to the business for which 
 we were sent here. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I regret that this discus- 
 sion has commenced at this time, as every in- 
 dividual must see that the remarks were prob- 
 ably intended as a censure, or something 
 equivalent, upon something said by myself 
 I have made no remarks which I should take 
 back under any circumstances after the most 
 mature thought. As to the people of St. 
 Paul, I have nothing to say against them indi- 
 vidually. As far as I know, they are like 
 other people, good and bad. The remarks I 
 made were applicable to certain influences 
 which they, as an aggregate body, would 
 have on our Territory under a certain divis- 
 ion. In a place where we are not at liberty 
 to discuss this matter, I think it wrong to 
 bring it up, but I am ready to sustain my 
 position in any proper place, and many peo- 
 ple of St. Paul say amen. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I wish merely to say that 
 I endorse what has been said by Messrs. 
 NoBTH and Aldbich. I believe it is always 
 better to pour oil upon the troubled wa- 
 l&rn ; to say notliing against any man or 
 
 a ny place, but to attend strictly to our busi- 
 ness, build up our o\vn cause and the inter- 
 ests of our country. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Had we not better 
 proceed to business. What, I would ask, are 
 gentlemen going to pour oil upon ? If what 
 has been said by me, fits any one, let 
 him put it on. I don't know as I have said 
 anything objectionable. If I have said anything 
 harsh to the members of this Convention, of 
 course, I am sorry for it. If I have said 
 anything offensive to people outside, let them 
 come and fcilk to me about it. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I hope to have my last 
 remark taken in its full force and meaning. 
 I did not intend a single remark I made, as 
 a censure, or as fault finding, but simply as 
 a suggestion to be thought of in the future. 
 
 CALL OF THE HOUSE. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH, (at one o'clock) moved 
 that there be a call of the House. 
 
 The motion was agreed to ; a call of the 
 House was had, the absentees noted, and the 
 sergeant-at-arms directed to close the doors 
 and bring in the absentees. 
 
 The doors were closed until 4 o'clock, p. m., 
 when the doors being opened, on motion all 
 further proceedings in the call were dispensed 
 with. 
 
 The Convention then took a recess imtil to- 
 morrow at 10 o'clock, A. M. 
 
 THIRD DAY. 
 
 Wednesday, July 15, 1857. 
 The Convention reassembled at 9 o'clock, 
 A. M. and a quorum being present, the jour- 
 nals of Monday and Tuesday were read, cor- 
 aected and approved. 
 
 MESSENGER TO THE CONVENTION. 
 
 The PRESIDENT laid before the Conven- 
 tion a communication from B. h. Sellers, 
 resigning the office of Messenger to the Con- 
 vention. 
 
 The resignation was accepted. 
 
 Mr. WILSON moved that W, H. Shelley, 
 the present Sergcant-at-Arms, pro temjwre, 
 be elected to supply the vacancy. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move to amend the 
 motion so as to provide for the election of two 
 Messengers. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wedne-^day, July 15. 
 
 85 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I would suggest that it 
 would be better not to exceed the usual and 
 customary officers of the legislative bodies of 
 this Territory, which are a Sergeant-at-Arms, 
 Messenger, Door-keeper and Fireman. The 
 object of the gentlemen can be as well accom- 
 plished by the election of a Door-keeper. 
 That was omitted yesterday. The precedent 
 of legislative bodies will be looked to, to as- 
 certain if our officers are necessary. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I do not see the necessity 
 of having two Messengers. We should be as 
 economical as possible at the commencement 
 of our organization. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I do not undertake 
 to say what has been customary in this Ter- 
 ritory in regard to the election of Messengers, 
 but if I imderstand the customs of Conven- 
 tions of this character in otlier States, it has 
 been to have two Messengers, to say the least. 
 My recollection is that they had two in the 
 Wisconsin, three in the Michigan, and I think 
 seven or eight in the New Hampshire Conven- 
 tion. My judgment is that the time is not far 
 distant when we shall want the services of at 
 least two Messengers. Our business will, 
 much of it, be transacted by Committees, and 
 there will be considerable ninning from this 
 hall to the Committee rooms and back ; and 
 it seems to me we should have two of these 
 officers, one upon each side of the Hall so that 
 they may be at hand for the piurpose, and also 
 for carrying to the Clerk's desk such resolu- 
 tions and papers as may be presented by the 
 members. 
 
 As to the matter of economy, I am as 
 much in favor of it as any other man, but we 
 should not carry our economy to the extent 
 of depriving ourselves of services which we 
 absolutely need. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I move to amend by striking 
 out the name of Mr. Shelly, so that the mo- 
 tion shall simply provide that we now proceed 
 to the election of a Messenger. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. In making my motion, j 
 did not say anything about the gentleman 
 whose name I proposed, nor shall I do so 
 now. I content mj^self by referring the Con- 
 vention to the gentleman as our present Ser- 
 geant-at-Arms, 'pro tempore. He has done us 
 good service thus far, and is just the man we 
 want, and I trust we shall not spend time in 
 trying to choose a better man. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I have no objection 
 to Mr. Shelley. So far as I know anything 
 about the manner in which he has discharged 
 his duties, he has my commendation; but 
 there are otlier individuals equally worthy and 
 "deserving, whose names should be proposed 
 to the Convention. From such names we can 
 select one. I shall be satisfied with any of ' 
 them. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. To Mr. Shelley I have no 
 objection ; on the contrary, from what I have 
 seen of liim, I like him both as a man and a 
 Republican. I think we can place the fullest 
 reliance upon him, but I think it nothing but 
 justice and fareness to allow the Convention 
 to propose other names, if they wish. There 
 are other individuals, as my friend Coggswell 
 remarked, equally as competent, and equally 
 as good Republicans, whose names I should 
 like to see brought before the Convention. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 The original resolution was adopted, and 
 W. H. Shelly was declared duly elected 
 Messenger to the Convention. 
 
 REPORT OF COMJOTTEE OS STANDING COSOnTTES. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN from the select committee 
 to which was referred the subject of desig- 
 nating the standing committees of this body, 
 made the following report : 
 
 "The select committee to whom wa^ referred 
 the resolution of Mr. Cogswell, have attended to 
 that duty and would recommend that standing 
 committees be appointed to whom shall be referred 
 all matters therein contained as follows : 
 
 1st. A committee of five — On, tJu Preamble and 
 Bill of Bights. 
 
 2d. A committee of seven — On the Legislative 
 Department. 
 
 3d. A committee of three — On the Executive 
 Department. 
 
 4th. A committee of five — On State Officer$ 
 other than Executive. 
 
 oth. A committee of seven — On the Judiciary 
 Department. 
 
 6th. A committee of five — On the Organization 
 and Government of Cities and Villages. 
 
 7th. A committee of five — On County and Town - 
 ship Organisations and Officers. 
 
 8th. A committee of five — On the Elective Fran- 
 chise. 
 
 9th. A committee of five — On Finances, Taxa- 
 tion, and Public Debt. 
 
 loth. A committee of five — On Edueatumal 
 Institutions and Interests. 
 
 11th. A committee of seven — On Banks and 
 Corporations otTier than Municipal. 
 
 12th. A committee of three — On the Militia^ 
 
36 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, July 15. 
 
 13th. A committee of five — On Exemptions of 
 Seal and Personal Estate, and the Rights of Mar- 
 ried Women. 
 
 14th. A committee of five — On the Punishment 
 of Crimes. 
 
 15th. A committee of five — On the Amendm,ent 
 and Eevision of the Constitution. 
 
 16th. A committee of five — On Internal Im- 
 provements. 
 
 17th. A committee of three — On Impeachment 
 and Eemavalfrom Office. 
 
 18th. A committee of five — On Public Property 
 and Expenditures. 
 
 19th. A committee of five — On Salaries. 
 
 20th. A committee of five — On Miscellaneous 
 Business. 
 
 21st. A committee of five — On Schedule. 
 
 22d. A committee of five — On the Arrange- 
 ment and Phraseology of the Constitution." 
 
 The report of the committee was accepted, 
 and the committee discharged. 
 
 The question being on the adoption of the 
 report of the committee. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN called for a separate vote on 
 each committee, and the question being put, 
 the recommendation as to committees Nos. 1, 
 8, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, 17, 
 18, 19, 20, 21 and 22 was agreed to without 
 debate. 
 
 On the reading of the 2d committee — a 
 committee of seven on the Legislative Depart- 
 ment. 
 
 Mr. QAYDEN said — There are so many- 
 committees, it seems to me that five members 
 are enough on any one committee. I there- 
 fore move to amend by striking out "7" and 
 inserting " 5." 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. That matter was con- 
 sidered by the select committee. This is an 
 important committee, as are also the com- 
 mittees on the Judiciary and on the Banking 
 Department, and we thought it desirable on 
 those committees to have as much counsel as 
 we could. But if seven cannot attend, five 
 would be a quonmi to do business. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. My idea was, that as the 
 committees are so numerous it would not be 
 convenient to have more than five members 
 upon a committee, as many of the commit- 
 tees would probably be in session at the same 
 time. A committee consisting of five mem- 
 bers, could act if only three were present, 
 and as a general thing throe can expedite 
 business more rapidly than a larger number. 
 In my opinion, five is a sufficient number on 
 
 those committees which should be strong, and 
 three on the others. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. That is an important com- 
 mittee and it is important to bring to bear 
 upon it all the wisdom possible to apply to it. 
 This committee especially, and the one on 
 the Judiciary, should consist of seven mem- 
 bers, and their object should be not so much 
 to expedite and get through business, as to 
 deliberate calmly and seriously upon the sub- 
 jects brought before them. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to, and the 
 recommendation of the select committee was 
 adopted. 
 
 The report as to the 13th committee was 
 read — a committee of five on Exemption of 
 Real and Personal Estate, and the Rights of 
 Married Women. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN said : I move to strike out 
 that committee. The subjects contemplated 
 by that committee have heretofore been sub- 
 jects of legislation, and not considered proper 
 subjects to incorporate into a constitution. 
 They are matters which constantly change 
 with public opinion. What might be deemed 
 a sufficient exemption of real estate at this 
 time, might not be at another time. 
 
 As to the rights of married women, I have 
 never known them introduced into any Con- 
 stitution. They are strictly subjects of legis- 
 lation. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Although they are matters 
 of legislation, rather than of constitutional 
 provisions, yet I think a committee upon 
 that subject should be appointed. No doubt 
 the subject will be mooted and proposi- 
 tion made in reference thereto. At all 
 events, we should have a committee to which 
 they could be referred, and then it lies in 
 their judgment whether to report them back 
 or not. Let them put the matter in shape, 
 if the Convention is to act upon it. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. My principal object is not 
 to lessen the number of committees. It is 
 evident that some members must be placed 
 upon two or three committees. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 The recommendation of the special com- 
 mittee wa.s then adopted. 
 
 The question was then taken on the adop- 
 tion of the report of the committee as a whole, 
 and it was decided in the affinnative. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— AVednesdat, Jlly 15. 
 
 37 
 
 COMMITTEE OX BOCXDABY CF STATE, &C. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE moved that an additional 
 standing committee of five on the name and 
 boundaries of the State be appointed. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. The select committee had 
 that subject under consideration, but came to 
 the conclusion that the question was sub- 
 stantially settled by the vote of the Convention 
 on Monday last. If we have accepted the 
 Enabling Act, we have also accepted the 
 boundaries specified therein. If that vote 
 accepted the Enabling Act, as most believe it 
 did, and as the committee think, it obviates 
 the necessity of such a committee as this. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I agree with the Chair- 
 man of the committee who reported the list 
 of committees, as to the result of the resolu- 
 tion passed the other day, but that does not 
 obviate the necessity of having this commit- 
 tee appointed to draft an article to be inserted 
 in the Constitution, so that the Constitution 
 itself shall contain the name and designate the 
 boundaries of the State. It is not my intention 
 or desire to have any change made in the 
 name and boundaries as contained in the 
 Enabling Act. It should be apparent to any 
 one taking up our Constitution, what our 
 name and boundaries are. It has been cus- 
 tomary in similar Conventions, to have such 
 a committee. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. That matter having 
 been substantially settled, as admitted by 
 the gentleman firom St. Anthony, it properly 
 comes imder the supervision of the commit- 
 tee on Arrangement and Phraseolog}', who 
 in the course of their duties will arrange and 
 place it in the Constitution. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I think the gentleman 
 who made the motion has a correct idea of 
 the matter. The committee on Arrangements 
 and Phraseology have nothing to arrange but 
 what is sent to them. I admit that we have 
 settled the matter, but who knows the fact 
 except members of the Convention. The 
 Constitution should itself give the name and 
 boundaries of the State. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I shall vote for the 
 resolution for the reason that I do not believe 
 that the question of boundary is settled. As 
 one member of the Select Committee, I am 
 not aware that any thing was said in regard 
 to the formation of a Committee of this kind. 
 Had there been, T should have been in favor 
 
 of it. In the Wisconsin Constitutional Con- 
 vention they had a committee of this charac- 
 ter. That Convention was held under an 
 Enabling Act not substantially diflTering from 
 ours. For the reason that I do not consider 
 this question settled, and that it must neces- 
 saiily come up hereafter, I am in favor of 
 this committee. I know that some members 
 here, living in certain localities, feel inclined 
 for some reason to express themselves in favor 
 of the permanent settlement of this question. 
 For my part the idea that it is permanently 
 settled by the adoption of the resolution the 
 other day, seems to me ridiculous. I shall 
 vote in favor of the committee. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. The subject will come up, 
 and there is force in the remark of the gen- 
 tleman from Goodhue [Mr. Hudson] that the 
 committee on Arrangement and Phraseology 
 will hardly have the subject before them 
 unless it comes in a different shape from that 
 in which it now is. As one coming from a 
 locality which believes that the action taken 
 the other day was correct, I am willing to 
 trust the committee and the Convention on 
 that subject. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I am perfectly willing that 
 any amount of investigation and discussion 
 if necessary, should be had upon the question 
 of the boundary, but it seems to me that we 
 have settled the question once, after consider- 
 able discussion and deliberation. It seemel 
 decidedly agreed upon that we should accept 
 the proposition of Congress in accordance 
 with the Enabling Act, which settles the boun- 
 dary question definitely. It strikes me that 
 to appoint a committee on boundaries now, is 
 inconsistent. I have very little idea that after 
 the most lengthy discussion and most mature 
 deliberation we shall change the position of 
 that matter for I believe that a majority of 
 the people of the Territory wish it to remain 
 as it is. Such is the sense of the Convention 
 dehberately expressed. But the question 
 ought to be settled at once if it is not already 
 settled, and if necessary, settled by a vote 
 upon this proposition. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I agree that we have 
 definitely settled the name and boundaries of 
 the State, but we did it for a particular 
 purpose, and in compliance with a specific 
 portion of the Enabling Act, which was a 
 prerequisite to our going on to transact busi- 
 
38 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, Jixv 15. 
 
 ness. That action was preliminan', and 
 which we were bound to take before we 
 could proceed to form a Constitution. Hav- 
 ing taken that action, I agree with the gentle- 
 man as to the result of it, but at the same 
 time I insist that it is desirable and necessary 
 that there should be a committee to prepare 
 an article to be inserted in the Constitution 
 setting forth the name and boundaries. The 
 Convention of Wisconsin, acting under an 
 Enabling Act similar to ours in every material 
 respect, had such a committee, which pre- 
 pared for the Constitution a distinct article 
 setting forth the name and boundaries, as 
 they were proposed by the Enabling Act. — 
 Who is to do the work of preparing such an 
 article? It has been suggested that the 
 committee on Arrangement and Phraseology 
 should do it. They have not the i)ower to 
 originate matter, but only to insert into the 
 Constitution the result of our action here. — 
 The language of the resolution adopted the 
 other day is to this eflFect : " Resolved, that 
 " it is the wish of the people of Minnesota 
 " to come into the Union as a State." That 
 would make a poor appearance in the Consti- 
 tution, and it seems reasonable that we should 
 have a committee for the purpose which I 
 have stated, and then when any member pro- 
 poses, or any committee reports a different 
 boundary from that which I tliink we have 
 adopted in fact, there will be time, ample 
 time for discussing it, and it will do no 
 harm. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I do not believe that the 
 question of boundary was definitely settled 
 by the resolution passed on Monday. Only 
 the question of our desire to come into the 
 Union as a State, was settled. I look upon 
 this matter merely as a proposition of Con- 
 gress to the Territory of Minnesota. A mere 
 proposition saying " if you will do so and so, 
 ' we will do so and so." It does not follow 
 as a matter of course that we must accept all 
 the other propositions. It does not follow 
 that we must accept the whole or none. We 
 may wish to accept to a certain extent, but 
 desire to differ from those propositions in 
 other respects which are not at all essential 
 to our acting under the act. They are bound 
 if we accept the propositions entire; they 
 are bound only in good faith however. 
 Though we do adopt a different line. Con- 
 
 gress I think will not dare to refuse our 
 admission. I think if this whole matter were 
 thoroughly understood by the people of the 
 whole State, they would desire a different 
 boundary. Therefore I am in favor of this 
 committee. I shall vote for it. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I do not think this the 
 time to argue this question, nor do I think it 
 necessary. This committee is necessary 
 whether the boundary be or be not settled. 
 By the rule which we have adopted each arti- 
 cle as it is adopted, is referred to the commit- 
 the on Arrangement of Phraseology. That 
 was the object for which the committee was 
 appointed, and it has no jurisdiction beyond 
 what is referred to it by the Convention. We 
 must have a committee upon the name and 
 boundaries of the State. The question will 
 be discussed just as much whether we have a 
 committee or not. I think the object will be 
 attained more directly by the appointment of 
 such a committee. 
 
 Mr. MANTOli. I find by looking at the 
 act enabling the State of Wisconsin to form 
 a State Constitution, that it is very similar to 
 the one under which we are acting. I find 
 in the reports of that Convention that there 
 was a committee similar to the one that is 
 now proposed to be appointed. That Com- 
 mittee took the subject of boundaries into 
 consideration, and reported an article in the 
 shape of an ordinance accepting the proposed 
 boundaries as laid down in the enabling act 
 of Congress. I see no reason why we should 
 not adopt the resolution. 
 
 I do not know as I have made up my mind 
 as to the actual boundaries of the incoming 
 State. I do not know that when we are act- 
 ing under an enabling act of Congress saying 
 we may come in as a State within certain pro- 
 posed hmits, we may not run a line within 
 those boundaries, but that we cannot step 
 beyond those boundaries is indisputable. 
 We certainly should have something in the 
 Constitution which will show to the people 
 what those boundaries are, without referring 
 them back to the enabling act. For this rea- 
 son I shall give my support to the resolution. 
 The boundaries should be laid out and the 
 land-marks understood, so that succeeding 
 generations may know what our action is, 
 without having to go back to the enabling act. 
 That they may not have. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, July 15. 
 
 39 
 
 Mr. COLBUEN. The only object I had 
 was to prevent occupying our time unneces- 
 sarily by discussion, but as discussion has got 
 to come, I hope the motion will prevail. 
 
 Mr. BATES. - I consider tliat the bounda- 
 ries were definitely settled the other day, and 
 I cannot see that there is any question in re- 
 gard to them. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. If I actually beUeved 
 that our action in the adoption of the resolu- 
 tion on Monday was a final settlement of the 
 boundary question, I certainly would go 
 against the resolution of the gentleman from 
 St. Anthony. But I do not believe it. If I 
 understand the motion, which is tb appoint a 
 committee upon the name and boundaries of 
 the proposed State, it would suit my idea better 
 if it were worded so as to read something like 
 this — " that there should be a standing com- 
 "mittee on the boimdaries of the proposed 
 "State," for the reason that I understand that 
 Enabling Act does lay down, establish and 
 mention the name of the proposed State. I 
 understand that we have no choice so far as 
 the name is concerned. The first section of 
 the Enabling Act reads thus — "that the inhabi- 
 "tants of that portion of the Territory of Min- 
 ''nesota which is embraced within the following 
 "limits," naming them, shall have the power to 
 do certain things. What are those thuigs? 
 That they shall have the power to form for 
 themselves a constitution and state govern- 
 ment by the name of the State of Minnesota, 
 and to come into the Union on an equal foot- 
 ing with the original States. So that as to 
 the name we have no power to make any 
 alteration. 
 
 But that section says nothing about the 
 permanent establishment of boundaries. It 
 onl^ gives the inhabitants who reside within 
 certain limits the right to select certain indi- 
 viduals who shall meet here for the perform- 
 ance of certain duties. The resolution of 
 Monday expressed nothing more than the 
 wish of the people to be organized as a State 
 — not a State with certain boundaries — not a 
 State which should commence at a certain 
 point, and run around m a certain manner, 
 and come back to the point of starting. Now 
 for the purjwse of having a committee to in- 
 vestigate this question of boundary, so that 
 the question may be met fairly, I am in fevor 
 of the appointment of this committee. 
 
 It seems to me unfair that those who hap- 
 pen to entertain different views from us, in 
 regard to the effect of the resolution adopted 
 on Monday, should shut the door upon us, 
 and say " because tee beheve the question is 
 " settled we will not place you in such a posi- 
 "tion before the Convention that you can 
 " express your views and sentiments." 
 
 My own locality or any individual senti- 
 ments do not require that I should take any 
 particular stand in reference to the matter. 
 I do not propose to pledge myself to vote for 
 one particular line or another. My simple 
 desire is that both sides may be heard, and 
 heard through a committee. When the 
 proper time comes I think I can introduce 
 an array of authorities — authorities which 
 are the actions of Conventions which have 
 assembled vmder Enabling Acts similar to 
 oiurs — to !?how that this question is not set- 
 tled, and that this Convention has the right 
 to pray that Congress will alter the proposed 
 boundaries. Wisconsin made such a prayer, 
 Iowa made such a prayer, and Michigan, 
 and Missouri, and Illinois made such a prayer. 
 My recollection is that those prayers were 
 heard in some instances, though not heard 
 or respected in others. 
 
 For these reasons I ask that the committee 
 may be appointed to take the matter under 
 consideration. If they believe that the ques- 
 tion is settled, all tliey have to do is to make 
 a report that, in their judgment, the Enabling 
 Act has settled the matter, and that it is no 
 longer a matter for debate or discussion in 
 this Convention. If that shall be the opinion 
 of the committee, so far as their duty is 
 concerned, it will meet my approbation. 
 
 The question was then taken on the motion 
 of Mr. Secojcbe, and it was agreed to. 
 
 On motion of Mr. COLBURN : 
 
 " Ordered, that a commmittee of three be ap- 
 pointed on Printing, and a committee of five on 
 Supplies and Expenditures." 
 
 On motion of Mr. COLBURN: 
 
 " Ordered, that a committee of five be appointed 
 to be called 'the committee on Elections and 
 Credentials.' " 
 
 rSE OF TEBKITOBIAL LIBRARY. 
 
 Mr. COGSWELL. I offer the following 
 resolution : 
 
 " Besohed, That a special committee of three 
 be appointed to ascertain if the members of this 
 Convention can hare access to the Territorial Li- 
 brarv, and if so durine what hours." 
 
40 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, July 15. 
 
 I have endeavored to obtain access to the 
 Territorial library, and each time have found 
 the door locked. I am not aware what tjjie 
 rules and regulations of the library are. 
 When I left home I supposed that every 
 member would have access to the books in 
 that library^ and for that reason neglected to 
 bring books which I otherwise should have 
 brought. I need the assistance of books to 
 discharge my duties as a member of this Con- 
 vention. I am not competent to originate 
 a Constitution in all its parts without consult- 
 ing books, containing the proceedings of 
 other Conventions of other States ; and also 
 other works. For that reason I have offered 
 the resolution. 
 
 The resolution was adopted and the Chair 
 thereon appointed as such committee, Messrs. 
 CoGGSWELL, Coombs, and Hudson. 
 
 STATIONERY. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER offered the foUowing resolu- 
 tion : 
 
 " Resolved,, That the committee on Supplies and 
 Expenditures are hereby instructed to make a con- 
 tract for a supply of 8taiionery for the use of the 
 members and officers of this Convention, that is 
 to say, not to exceed in amount $5 to eacli member, 
 and such amount as they may deem necessary for 
 the use of the officers of the Convention." 
 
 The resolution was adopted. 
 
 PRINTING THE ENABLING ACT. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I submit the follow- 
 ing resolution : 
 
 " Besolved, That two hundred copies of the late 
 Act of Congress entitled " An Act to authorize the 
 people of the Territory of Minnesota to form a 
 Constitution and State Government preparatory to 
 their admission into the Union on an equal footing 
 with the original States," be printed for the use 
 of the members of this Convention." 
 
 So far as my knowledge extends it appears 
 to me that not one member in ten has a copy 
 of what we denominate the Enabling Act, 
 and in my judgnv5nt we do not understand 
 its provisions as we ought. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move to amend the 
 resolution by adding " also an act of the 
 *' Extra session of the Legislature of this 
 " Territory in reference to the same subject 
 matter of said act of Congress." 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I accept the amend- 
 ment. 
 
 The resolution as modified was llion 
 adopted. 
 
 And then on motion of Mr. NORTH, the 
 Convention (at one o'clock) took a recess 
 until three o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention re-assembled at three 
 o'clock. 
 
 SUPPLY OF PAPERS TO MEMBERS. 
 
 MR. HARDING offered the foUowing res- 
 olution : 
 
 " Resolved, That the publishers of the St. Paul 
 Daily Times, the St. Paul Advei^tiser, and the 
 Daily MiiinesoUaii be requested to furnish to each 
 of the members of this Convention, two copies of 
 their several- daily papers during the session of 
 this Convention." 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I would enquire why the 
 "Pioneer" is not included ? It is just now 
 a very interesting paper, and I want to have 
 it. But I think the better way would be to 
 use general language, requesting the Editors 
 of the city papers to furnish us each with two 
 copies daily. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. If it is the intention of 
 either of these papers to publish the journal 
 of our proceedings, of course I desire to have 
 the perusal of that paper. It seems to me 
 that it would be better to have the Conven- 
 tion make an arrangement to have the official 
 journal of the Convention published in one 
 paper or more, so that when we get the papers 
 we shall get some equivalent for what we 
 pay. To be sure there is interesting matter 
 in all the papers, and especially the one 
 named by Dr. Foster, but my object would 
 be to procure each morning in print, the 
 journal of the day before. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS offered the following sub- 
 stitute : 
 
 "Resolved, That a select committee of three be 
 appointed to negotiate with some one of the news- 
 paper publishers in this city to publish an official 
 report of the proceedings of this Convention, and 
 furnish each member of the Convention daily with 
 twelve printed copies of such report ; to be charged 
 to the contingent expenses of the Convention." 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. My present impres- 
 sion is that it woiild not be any thing unusual, 
 or out of the order of proceedings of Con- 
 ventions of this kind to order copies of such 
 newspapers as may be printed at the Capitol. 
 The language of the substitute seems to 
 imply — for I did not distinctly hear it — that 
 we should procure copies of such papers as 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, July 15. 
 
 41 
 
 shall publish the official reports of this Con- 
 vention. I do not understand what is intended 
 by that word "official." I do not under- 
 stand that any paper in St. Paul or out of it 
 publishes an official report of our proceed- 
 ings. The word "official" seems to carry 
 upon its face a meaning something like " legal 
 authority ' ' in such connection . No authority 
 has been delegated by this Convention to 
 any publisher to publish anything in the 
 nature of an official accoimt of our proceed- 
 ings. What may be done hereafter I don't 
 pretend to say. 
 
 So far as I am concerned I do not care 
 anything about any of these newspapers. 
 That is, I am not in favor of appropriating 
 Uncle Sam's money, or the money which per- 
 haps win come out of the people of Min- 
 nesota, to pay for newspapers for us to read. 
 If we want to read this or that paper let us 
 pay for it out of oiu- own pockets like men. 
 I know of no authority vested in us as a 
 Conventional body, either by the Enabling 
 Act or any other law, to appropriate money 
 for any such purpose. True Conventions 
 have done such things before, but my impres- 
 sion is that they have done so imder entirely 
 different circumstances from those under 
 which we are placed. 
 
 I move to lay the resolution and the sub- 
 stitute on the table. 
 
 The question was taken, and the motion was 
 not agreed to. 
 
 Mr*. FOSTER. When we are here assem- 
 bled upon the people's business, and are s\u-- 
 rounded with papers which are constantly 
 criticising our doings, and some in particular 
 pointing out our errors, and which everybody 
 sees but ourselves, imless we go and pay for 
 them out of our own scanty stipend, I can 
 see no reason why the people should not pay 
 for what seems to be incident to our position 
 as the people's agents. To them it is of 
 little moment, but to us who have so many 
 calls made upon our purse in consequence of 
 our being here, it is a matter of considerable 
 importance. I am not in favor at this time 
 of engaging the publication of our official 
 record, but I am in favor of having placed 
 upon our desks the newspapers which have 
 at least a sketch of our proceeding, and in 
 some of them whole columns of criticisms 
 upon our doings. We may learn something 
 6 
 
 from them and our constituents want to see 
 what is going on as well as we do. How 
 much easier to furnish them that information 
 by papers than by letters, and how much 
 more fully it can be done. Gentlemen say, 
 why not do so out of our own pockets? We 
 are engaged, not upon our business, but 
 upon the people's business, and they ought 
 to pay the expense. Nor should Uncle Sam 
 begrudge a little expense to start us out with 
 our fireedom papers. I will move to amend 
 the substitute by striking out all after the 
 word " resolved," and insert — 
 
 "That the publishers of the varions daily and 
 weekly newspapers of St. Paul be requested to 
 furnish two copies of each publication to every 
 member of this Convention." 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. My idea is that there will 
 be a paper selected to publish the official 
 reports of this Convention. As to the other 
 papers, it does not seem to me right to pro- 
 cure them and saddle the expense upon the 
 contingent expenses of the Convention. What 
 is the object of having those papers at all ? 
 Is it to circulate them through the country ? 
 I am not as anxious to circulate those papers 
 that lie about the Convention as I am those 
 that state the truth, or furnish the official 
 record. The statements of those papers mis- 
 lead the pubhc mind, and prejudice it against 
 the Convention. My object is to get a 
 reasonable number of the correct reports of 
 the Convention for each member, and send 
 them among the people, that oiu: constituents 
 may know what we are doing. It seems to 
 me absurd to get copies of the Pioneer which 
 does not teU a correct story, and only the 
 same number of the papers which publishes 
 the official report. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I am in favor substan- 
 tially of the substitute, and opposed to the 
 amendment. It seems to me that if we can 
 have laid upon our tables each morning a 
 paper which will publish the journal of our 
 proceedings kept by the Secretary, it would 
 be of great use to us. We could examine it 
 and discover the errors, if any, before the 
 Jommal is read by the Secretary. Upon a 
 simple reading of the Journal, without inspec- 
 tion, we are likely to let errors slip in, which 
 would be corrected if we had laid upon our 
 table, previously, a printed copy of it. I am 
 opposed to the amendment, because I do not 
 
42 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— WEDNESiMY, July 15. 
 
 think that we should call upon the pubUc to 
 pay for papers, simply that we may read what 
 is said about the Convention, or about matters 
 outside of it. The true policy is for us ordi- 
 narily to pay ourselves. I shall consequently 
 vote for the substitute, and against the 
 amendment. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I do not so much object 
 to extra copies, as I do to restricting the num- 
 ber which contains the otficial report to the 
 same number as the others. People at a dis- 
 tance are not so well able to judge of the cor. 
 rectness or incorrectness of the representa- 
 tions in the papers as we arc. These journals 
 do go abroad, and I have no objection to their 
 being circulated by us, but I say the truth 
 should be more extensively circulated. Twelve 
 copies of the official report is better than 
 twelve copies of garbled proceedings. 
 
 Mr. MURPHY. I move that the word 
 "weekly" be stricken out from the amend- 
 ments. We get the dailies, which contain all 
 that appears in the weekly. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I move to amend the 
 amendment by striking out "two" and in- 
 serting "one." I think one copy of the 
 Pioneer is all we need and one copy of each 
 cf the other dailies will answer to furnish us 
 with all the information we can get from them. 
 When we get an official paper, I agree that it 
 will be well to procure a larger number of 
 that. I do not wish to send abroad such 
 felshoods as are contained in some of the 
 papers. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I have got hold of a copy 
 of the Piomer once or twice, and there was 
 choice matter in it which I desired to keep. 
 I want to preserve some of them for future 
 use, but I have been unable thus far to hold 
 onto them. If I can get two copies I shall be 
 likely to succeed. 
 
 Mr. GERRISH. I think the best way is 
 to send the Pioneer into the country with 
 with the other papers. If our object is to 
 convert the people to our views, that is the 
 very best course we can pursue. The people 
 will then see the ridiculous position the 
 Pioneer takes, and having both accounts they 
 can judge better how both parties stand. 
 
 The question was taken on Mr. IIaydem's 
 amendment, and it was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. CLEGUORN, offered the following 
 
 amendment to 'the amendment. Strike out 
 all after the word "resolved," and insert — 
 
 " That each member of this Convention shall be 
 entitled to ten copies daily of any paper published 
 in this city, which he may select." 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL." I feel it my duty, as 
 an individual, to place myself upon the record 
 right in this matter. Simply because Con- 
 ventions of this character have once done 
 things, it does not follow that we should 
 do the same things. Simply because a con- 
 ventional body has ordered papers for the 
 individual benefit of its members, it does not 
 follow that we are bound to take the same 
 course, or that we have a right to do so. It 
 seems to me that we ought not to make an 
 appropriation, either of our money, or of the 
 Federal Treasury, unless there is some reason 
 for it. The first reason assigned for doing so, 
 was assigned by the gentlemen from Dakota 
 county (Mr. Foster,) which was that we 
 might learn something, provided we took that 
 number of papers. There are other and 
 better sources to which we can go for the 
 purpose of obtaining information. What 
 kind of information do we want? We want 
 such kind of information as wilL enable us as 
 members of the Convention, to discharge our 
 duties. Is that information likely to be ob- 
 tained from newspapers ? My impresaion is 
 that the people of the Territory and the 
 Federal Government have provided sources, 
 which, if we can have access to them, are 
 amply sufficient to aid us in that reSpect. 
 
 Another thing. If we have the right to 
 subscribe to newspapers in St, Paul, have we 
 not the same right to subscribe for papers 
 published in St. Anthony ? 
 
 The gentleman from Dakota said he was in 
 favor of taking copies of every paper of the city 
 which publishes sketches of our proceedings. 
 Suppose the St. Anthony papers should hap- 
 pen t6 contain a sketch of our proceedings. 
 Why not subscribe for them ? It strikes mo 
 that we have the right to do the one as much 
 as the other, and no more. If you can learn 
 from St. Paul papers, you can from the St. 
 Anthony papers. 
 
 An attempt has been made to arraign the 
 Pioneer. This is not the proper place to ar- 
 raign any paper, Whenever wc are charged 
 by any paper with a dereliction of duty, 
 whether it be by the Piotmer, or Mlnmsotian, 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, July 15. 
 
 or any other paper, then, and not till then, 
 is the time to defend ourselves. I want no 
 better place to defend myself than before that 
 tribunal which I recognize above all other 
 tribunals, save one, and that is the tribunal 
 of the people. It does not become us as 
 members of the Convention, to arraign any 
 paper before this Convention — neither to 
 charge or intimate that any paper has been 
 guilty of falsehood, unless they come indi- 
 ■vidually and personally upon us as members, 
 and then it might not be inappropriate for the 
 individual aggrieved to make explanations. 
 
 Another reason urged is, that we may send 
 them home to our constituents, and this is 
 made a permanent reason. The mere fact 
 that such a thing will gratify our constituents 
 is no reason why we should send those pa- 
 pers. If I want to hu-e a liar I will hire and 
 pay for him on my own hook, and wUl not 
 ask Uncle Sam, or tliis Territory' to pay him. 
 
 Another reason urged is, that we can see 
 the arguments on both sides, and the posi- 
 tions taken by individuals who represent both 
 sides of certain questions. We can obtain 
 such information on our own hook, and we 
 ought not to make it a public biu-den simply 
 for the purpose of ascertaining what our po- 
 litical enemies say against us. 
 
 Therefore I have made up my mind firmly 
 against anything like ordering any number 
 of these papers in St. Paul, unless they con- 
 tain the oflBcial record of our proceedings. 
 When that is done, I am ready and willing to 
 make a liberal appropriation. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I am opposed to taking 
 all and any of these papers in the way pro- 
 posed. I think the probabihty is that the 
 expenses of this Convention will be borne by 
 the people of this Territory, and therefore I 
 shall be a little more careful in our expendi- 
 tures than I should be if they were to be 
 borne by the United States. But m either 
 case I do not think we have the right to order 
 these papers at the public expense for distri- 
 bution, and clearly not to take them for our 
 own use. If we have, we have equally the 
 right to pm-chase books for our own use. 
 
 As to oiir pay being meagre, we knew that 
 before oui- election, and I ventured to say 
 that there are not more than one or two here 
 who did not come here of their own free will 
 «nd desire. We came here not because we 
 
 were urged by the people, but because we 
 wanted to come. Many others desired to 
 come in our places. 
 
 Let us look to the justice of this thing by 
 taking papers for distribution among our con- 
 stituents. And then to the item of expense. 
 If I take a dozen copies for distribution to 
 whom do they go but to a dozen of my par- 
 ticular friends? I, sir, have some two thou- 
 sand voting constituents. Each one has an 
 equal claim upon me, but only a dozen get 
 the papers purchased at the expense of the 
 whole. More than that, two thousand voted 
 the RepubUcan ticket, and one thousand did 
 not vote it, and all are entitled to an equal 
 share in the distribution. Now I say the 
 masses get no benefit of the distribution. 
 The distribution is partial, and made for per- 
 sonal and political purposes. It cannot be 
 otherwise. 
 
 And what is the item of expense going to 
 be ? Let me say here that every item of ex- 
 pense of this Convention with interest ad- 
 ded to it, will be arrayed before and held up to 
 the people, for the purpose of making capital 
 out of it. True, that should be no inducement 
 to act, but we sshould be careful to act cau- 
 tiously, and see that there is not that done 
 which can be taken advantage of. What 
 will be the expenditure in this case ? Say 
 each member gets twelve copies. There are 
 or will be sixty members. Twelve times sixty 
 are seven hundred and twenty — the number 
 of copies — ^which at five cents each amounts 
 to $36 per day. Suppose we sit 30 days, — 
 and we are more likely to sit double that 
 time — we shall spent $1080 for the session 
 for this one item alone, for the benefit of our- 
 selves and our particular fiiends. That will 
 make an item in the svma total of the expen- 
 ses of the Convention, and I trust gentlemen 
 wUl not vote in favor of it. 
 
 I shall send oif just as many papers with- 
 out the appropriation as with it, and others 
 will do the same — true, at oin* own expense 
 though. We came here, knowing that this 
 was not money making business. 
 
 But say some, we can, in this manner, have 
 the proceedingsof this Convention^laid before 
 us every morning, and can send them to our 
 constituents for their information. I say we 
 cannot have the journal of our proceedings 
 so published. I have myself made inquiries 
 
44 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, Jult 15. 
 
 of authorities which know, and they tell me 
 that it is impossible, here or elsewhere to 
 have the proceedings of to-day laid before us 
 to-morrow. Even in the city of Boston that 
 could not be accomplished, much less here. 
 Then all we should get would merely be a 
 newspaper with some items and scraps of 
 our proceedings in it. 
 
 As to the Pioneer and Democrat, I am 
 opposed to ordering it for a reason not urged 
 as yet by any member. I would oppose tak- 
 ing any lying work. But can we get this 
 Pioneer and Democrat in the way you propose 
 to ask for it? There is a reason which 
 weighs with me more than any other. I 
 would not put ourselves in the position of 
 being refused. But independent of that, I 
 would not take and circulate them at the 
 expense of my constituents. If I circulate 
 them, I do so out of my own money, and 
 when that fails I take no more papers. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. One word about this 
 bug-bear of expenses. I have no idea that 
 it is going to cost us as much by the quantity 
 as by the single paper. No such amount of 
 expense as has been represented, will attend 
 the taking of these papers. Fifteen cents 
 per week I am told is the price of the dailies, 
 and I do not think our constituents will cen- 
 sure us at all. Mine are liberal enough to 
 have an oflBcial report circulated among them. 
 They need not all be sent to the same per- 
 sons. To-day I would send to some individ- 
 uals and to-morrow I would send to different 
 ones, and they vnU be circulated from hand 
 to hand, and nearly all will, in some way, get 
 a correct idea of our proceedings here. That 
 is the way such things are usually done, and 
 % I believe the people are generally pleased 
 with a moderate appropriation of that kind, 
 to circulate the proceedings of legislative 
 bodies among them. 
 
 As to the impossibility of getting the jour- 
 nal of the preceding day laid upon the tabic 
 each morning, that is no great bug-bear. Sup- 
 pose it should be a day or tA'O behind, it 
 would not be material, but when it came we 
 could circulate it as the official proceedings of 
 this Convention. What ought to be done can 
 be done. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I wish to have it under- 
 stood tlmt I am opposed to taking any news- 
 papers unless we pay for them ourselves, and 
 
 I think the argument of the gentleman from 
 Winona [Mr. Wilson] upon that point per- 
 fectly conclusive. We have no more right to 
 pay out the people's money in the purchase 
 of papers than we have in the purchase of 
 books. The people sent us here for the pur- 
 pose of making a Constitution, and we have 
 no right to say that ten or twelve of those 
 persons shall be enlightened, and that the 
 others shall pay for it. Every man has the 
 privilege of taking a paper for himself, and 
 that is what should be done. I am in favor 
 of every man's taking a paper, and in favor 
 of every man's paying for it himself. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I am reaUy glad that this 
 question has been brought before the Conven- 
 tion. What arguments have been deduced 
 in this discussion, save what I have heard for 
 a few minutes past, I do not know, but I am 
 pleased that the subject is brought before us. 
 I represent quite a large constituency who 
 are a reading community, and who like to 
 know what the Convention is doing. In 
 order that they may have that information it 
 is essentially necessary that we should pro- 
 vide them with the means of obtaining it. 
 How are they to obtain it ? By my money, 
 the money of an individual ? 
 
 That should be so according to other gen- 
 tlemen's arguments. I want my constituents 
 to have the information — the Lord bless my 
 constituents, for I love them because they 
 sent me here. (Laughter.) I wish the peo- 
 ple were here to hear gentlemen's argimient, 
 and I believe if we wei'c then to have another 
 election there would be less of them here. 
 
 I live thirty miles back from this great 
 thoroughfare — the Mississippi — and I know 
 of no other way of letting my constituents 
 know that I am here, than by sending papers 
 to them every day. To them it will be a 
 gratification to know how my vote stands 
 recorded upon the various questions which 
 come under our consideration. In this view 
 of the matter I hope the resolution will pre- 
 vail. 
 
 To-day I have spent the enormous sum of 
 one whole dollar for the purpose of purchas- 
 ing newspapers to send home to fiiy constit- 
 uents, and whether this resolution prevails or 
 not, I shall continue to do so from day to 
 day, until the Convention adjourns, and for 
 what purpose? Simply that the doings of 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, Jixr 15. 
 
 45 
 
 this Convention may be known to my con- 
 stituents. I know that when the post offices 
 are crowded with docimaents, the people are 
 satisfied. As I said before, I represent a 
 secluded district which cannot get the iofor- 
 mation they desire as readily as people do 
 who live on the river. The constituents of 
 gentlemen living below, get a knowledge of 
 the proceedings of this Convention every 
 day, if not through the press, yet from indi- 
 viduals who are passing through. My con- 
 stituents have but one resort, and that is the 
 press ; and I am in favor of crowding all the 
 papers upon them that I can get. I think it 
 is the duty of the Convention to pass the 
 resolution, and I hope there is not a gentle- 
 man here who wiU vote against it. 
 
 I have before me a resolution of a similar 
 character which was adopted by the Conven- 
 tion which framed the Constitution of the 
 State of TTisconsin, and it is in these words : 
 
 •' Begolved. That each member of this Conven- 
 tion be furnished with forty copies of any paper 
 published in Madison during the session of this 
 Convention." 
 
 Let us study economy. That is all well, 
 and as the resolution is one of confined lim- 
 its, I shall support it. It amounts to little out 
 of the sum which has been donated or appro- 
 priated for the purpose of paying the expen- 
 ses of this Convention. It is for the benefit 
 of our constituents from whom the money 
 comes. We do not receive the benefit of the 
 resolution. We can get up any morning, and 
 at our own tables, without any expense, see 
 he brick bats which are daily hurled against 
 this Convention, but our constituents know 
 nothing about it. Let the resolution prevail 
 and let the people have the papers. 
 
 Mr. KING. I have made an estimate of 
 this item of expense provided we sit here 
 thirty days, and take ten copies each of a 
 daily paper, and it amoimts to the sum of 
 $540. The objection has been urged that a 
 few privileged individuals only will get the 
 information. I admit that fact and contend 
 that it is ri^t. Bear in mind the fact that it 
 is only a few prominent men in any common- 
 wealth who imdergo the toils and vexations 
 of carrying on the machinery of life. Go 
 into any neighborhood and inquire into the 
 political aspect of the times, and you win find 
 only two or three that can teD you any thing 
 
 about it. Well, it is through such men that 
 we reach the masses who have not much 
 time to read, or who, if they do read, under- 
 stand and comprehend but little of what they 
 peruse. Therefore it is right to send these 
 papers to the few of our constituents who 
 have the leisure to read and can comprehend 
 readily what they see. Suppose I send home 
 ten copies of a paper to the most active of 
 my constituents, they immediately ^ean the 
 news and then circulate the papers among 
 some of their friends, and converse with oth- 
 ers about their contents. In that way the 
 papers go from Sunday morning to Satiu:day 
 night, and they are read until they are worn 
 out. Now, our constituents will say we are 
 ne^ectful of our duty if we deny them this 
 privilege. 
 
 I am in favor of the last amendment. I 
 have some democratic friends and it is my 
 duty to ^ve them the information they will get 
 throti^ the Democratic press, and so fer as 
 I see fit to acconunodate them, I accommo- 
 date my friends. I do not wish to make any 
 charges against the press, but I will state 
 that I can well see how the Pioneer may 
 make more Republicans than any other paper 
 published in St. Paul. I can cite many cases 
 of converts it has made to the Republican 
 faith. It acts as an emetic acts upon the 
 physical system, — turns the stomach upside 
 down, and leaves the body politic in a better 
 condition than it fovmd it. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I think there has been 
 a great deal of powder lost here, as it is very 
 doubtful, if the resolution passes, whether 
 the newspapers in this city will trust the Con- 
 vention to that amount. I move the previous 
 question. 
 
 The previous question was seconded. 
 
 The question was then taken on the amend- 
 ment to the amendment, and on a division 
 there were yeas 24, nays 18. 
 
 The question next reciured on the amend- 
 ment to the substitute as amended, and being 
 put it was decided in the affirmative. — Yeas 
 24, nays 16. 
 
 The next question was upon the adoption 
 of the substitute as amended, in place of the 
 original resolution, and being put it was de- 
 cided in the affirmative, — ^yeas 27, nays 15. 
 So the resolution was finally passed in the 
 following shape : 
 
46 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— TiaasD ay, July 16. 
 
 " Eesolved, That each member of this Conven- 
 tion shall be entitled to ten copies daily of any- 
 paper, published in this city, which he may select." 
 
 A slight discussion here arose, as to whether 
 the resolution confined members to one par- 
 ticular paper or not, and the result was that 
 the vote by which the resolution passed was 
 reconsidered, and then the resolution was re- 
 ferred to a select committee of three, con- 
 sisting of Messrs. Stannard, Foster and 
 Cleghorn, to report back a resolution in a 
 proper shape. 
 
 QUALIFICATION OP OFFICERS. 
 
 Mr. Wm. foster, sergeant-at-arms elect, 
 presented himself to the Convention and was 
 duly qualified by taking the usual oath of 
 office. 
 
 The oath of ofiice was administered to Wm. 
 H. Shelly, who was this morning elected 
 Messenger to the Convention. 
 
 ACCEPTANCE OF THE PROPOSITIONS OF CONGRESS. 
 
 Mr. McKUNE offered the following resolu- 
 tion. 
 
 " Resolved, That all propositions contained in 
 section five of an act entitled ' An Act to author- 
 ize the people of the Terrritory of Minnesota to 
 form a Constitution and State Government prepa- 
 ratory to their admission into the Union on an 
 equal footiug with the original States,' are hereby 
 fully accepted, and the President of the Conven- 
 tion authorized to appoint a select committee to 
 prepare an ordinance, irrevocable without the 
 consent of the United States, that said State shall 
 never interfere with the primary disposal of the 
 soil within the same by the United States, or with 
 any regulations Congress may find necessary to 
 have, securing the title to said soil to hona fide 
 purchasers thereof, and that no tax shall be im- 
 posed upon lands belonging to the United States, 
 and that in no case shall non-resident proprietors 
 be taxed higher than resident proprietors." 
 
 The resolution was laid over one day under 
 the rules. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH presented the creden- 
 tials of Boyd Phelps, which were referred to 
 the committee on Credentials. 
 
 The committee subsequently reported that 
 they had examined the credentials and had 
 found them correct, and recommended that 
 Mr. Phelps be admitted to a seat in the Con- 
 vention. 
 
 The report of the committee was accepted, 
 and Mr. Phelps was qualified by taking tlie 
 usual oath of office. 
 
 On motion of Mr. SECOMBE the creden- 
 
 tials of Mr. Phelps, were ordered to be en- 
 tered at large upon the journals of the Con- 
 vention. 
 
 PRINTING OF THE CONVENTION. 
 
 Mr. COGSWELL offered the following res- 
 olution : 
 
 ^'Resolved That the committee upon Public 
 Printing have full power and authority to receive 
 proposals and contract with the lowest and best 
 bidder to do all the incidental printing, and also do 
 the printing of the journals and debates of this 
 Convention." 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. Does not that resolution 
 lie over one day under the rules ? 
 
 Mr. KING. I ask for the reading of the 
 rule. 
 
 The rule was read as follows ; 
 
 " Every resolution debated or giving rise thereto 
 lies over one day without debate or other action." 
 
 The resolution was laid over. 
 
 Mr. MURPHY (at five o'clock and five 
 minutes p. m.,) moved to adjourn. 
 
 The yeas and nays were demanded and 
 ordered, and the question being taken, thei*e 
 were yeas 28, nays 24, as follows : 
 
 Yeas — Messrs. Anderson, Baldwin, BoUes, Cleg- 
 horn, Cederstam, Coombs, Davis, Eschlie, Gal- 
 braith, Gerrish, Hall, Hudson, Hanson, Holly, 
 King, Kemp, Lyle, Lowe, McCann, McKune, Mur- 
 phy, Phelps, Peckham, Secombe, Vaughn, Winell, 
 Watson and Wilson. — 28. 
 
 Nays — Messrs. Balcombe, Bates, Billings, But- 
 ler, Colburn, Coggswell, Coe, Duley, Dickerson, 
 Foster, Folsom, Hayden, Harding, Mantor, Mes- 
 ser, Morgan, Mills, North, Perkins, Putnam, 
 Robbins, ilussell and Smith. — 24. 
 
 The committee accordingly adjourned imtil 
 nine o'clock to-morrow morning. 
 
 FOURTH DAY. 
 
 Thursday, July 16, 1857. 
 
 The Convention met pursuant to adjourn- 
 ment, at 9 o'clock, A. M. 
 
 The roll of the Convention was called, when 
 a quorum of members answering to their 
 names. 
 
 The Journal of yesterday was read and 
 approved. 
 
 On motion of Mr. ALDRICH— 
 
 " Ordered, That the letter of the Rev. E. D. 
 Neill be taken from the table, read and filed with 
 the Secretory of the Convention." 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATE^-TncRSDAV, Jcly 16. 
 
 47 
 
 The communication was accordingly taken 
 firom the table and read to the Convention. 
 
 XEWSPAPERS FOB MEMBEBS. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER, from the Select Committee 
 to whom was referred the resolution in rela- 
 tion- to famishing members with newspapers, 
 reported the following resolution, with a 
 recommendation that it do pass, viz : 
 
 " Besolvol, That not exceeding ten copies of the 
 daily newspapers, or their equivalent in value of 
 weekly newspapers, be allowed to each member of 
 the Convention ; that each member fhmish a list 
 in writing to the Assistant Secretary of the nam- 
 ber of each newspaper he desires, and said As- 
 sistant Secretary is hereby required to notify the 
 several publishers of the number of copies required, 
 and request that they be delivered to the SergeaAt- 
 at-Arms, of the Convention, to be distributed by 
 him according to the list famished to him by the 
 Assistant Secretary." 
 
 The report of the committee was accepted 
 and the resolution adopted. 
 
 ACCEPT ASCE OF THE PBOPOSmOXS OFCOSGBESS. 
 
 Under the order of business, the Conven- 
 tion took up for consideration the resolution 
 oflFered yesterday by Mr. McKuse. 
 
 . The resolution which was reported to the 
 Convention, relates to accepting the proposi- 
 tions contained in the fifth section of the 
 Enabling Act of Congress. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN moved that the resolution 
 be referred to the Standing Committees on 
 Miscellaneous provisions. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I question whether that is 
 the best committee to which to refer the reso- 
 lution. "We had better look over our com- 
 mittees and see what they are, and wliat their 
 duties are, otherwise this committee on Mis- 
 cellaneous business will have too many matters 
 referred to them. 
 
 The Act of Congress, called the Enabling 
 Act, requires us to make provision, either by 
 a clause in the Con.stitution, or by an ordi- 
 nance irrevocable, that we will never interfere 
 with the primary disposal of the soQ by the 
 United States ; that we will not tax the lands 
 of non-residents higher than those of residents, 
 &c. It is the opinion of some persons that we 
 should comply with that requirement by an 
 ordinance, so that the Commissioner of the 
 Land Office might be immediately notified 
 thereof, as the per centage upon the sale of 
 the public lands would commence firom its 
 
 passage. Others think that the ordinance 
 should be passed by the first State Legisla- 
 ture. It would seem that any such ordi- 
 nance passed by us, must be incorporated 
 into the Constitution ; if not so, why should 
 the Enabling Act say, "by a clause in said 
 " Constitution." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I am not exactiy able to 
 see how a Convention assembled for the pur- 
 pose of forming a State Constitution, can 
 pass an ordinance. The questicaa comes up, 
 what is to give validity to that ordinance ? Is 
 it to be voted upon by the people separately 
 firom the Constitution? I am of the im- 
 pression that the only mode in which we can 
 meet the matter, is to incorporate such a 
 clause in some manner in the Constitution, 
 but my mind is not ftiUy satisfied upon the 
 point. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I would suggest that we 
 had better let the resolution lie on the table 
 imtil we can look over the Standing Commit- 
 tees, and perhaps we can find some other 
 committee to which it can more properly be 
 referred. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN withdrew his motion of 
 reference. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The meaning of this 
 Enabling Act is perhaps a littie ambiguous. 
 It is as foUows : 
 
 " Provided, The foregoing propositions hereby 
 offered are on the condition that the said Conven- 
 tion which shall form the Constitution of said 
 State, shall provide by a clause in said Constitu- 
 tion, or an ordinance, irrevocable without the 
 consent of the United States, that said State shall 
 never interfere, kc." 
 
 Now the question arises whether it was the 
 intention of Congress to pve the Convention 
 the choice between two methods, or whether 
 there is. simply only one method pointed out 
 to them. The question is whether the word 
 "or" is conjunctive or disjimctive. It occurs 
 to me that it would be safer, at any rate, to 
 construe it as a conjunctive conjunction, as 
 though it read, " by a clause in said Constitu- 
 " tion which shall be an ordinance irrevocable 
 "without the consent of Congress." It is 
 certainly susceptil^le of that construction. 
 Of course it should be referred to a commit- 
 tee. It was a point suggested by me yester- 
 day whether a distinct Standing Conunittee 
 should not be appointed, to whom should be 
 referred these propositions. 
 
48 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, July 16. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move that the resolu- 
 tion be laid upon the table. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the resolu- 
 tion was laid on the table. 
 
 PRINTING FOE THE CONVENTION. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL called up for consider- 
 ation his resolution of yesterday, which was 
 as follows : 
 
 "Resolved, That the coimnittee on Public Print- 
 ing have full power and authority to receive 
 proposals and to contract with the lowest and best 
 bidder to do all the incidental printing, and also 
 to do the printing of the journal and debates of 
 this Convention." 
 
 Mr. BATES. I am opposed to that resolu- 
 tion, because I am opposed to giving our 
 printing to certain papers in St. Paul which 
 misrepresent our proceedings, even though 
 they may do it cheaper than others would. 
 
 Mr, FOSTER. In this new country in par- 
 ticular, and sometimes in the older parts of 
 our country, this method of letting legislative 
 printing to the lowest bidder is very much of 
 a humbug. No matter what the rate of their 
 contract, the printers, in such matters, man- 
 age in the shape of extras, to get more than 
 the printing would cost if let out at printer's 
 regular rates. I have seen this kind of ope- 
 ration carried on at legislative capitols. I 
 recollect a case which occurred in connection 
 with the Legislature of Pennsylvania. Tha- 
 body got into a difficulty about the printing 
 and let it to the lowest bidder. At the end 
 of his three years it was generally agreed 
 that the printing had cost more than under the 
 old contract. You cannot construct a contract 
 which the printer, cannot, so to speak, drive 
 a coach and four through. It arises from the 
 peculiar nature of their business. Very few 
 understand it, and though you may restrict 
 the printer to so much per thousand ems, and 
 so much per page for press work, he will as- 
 tonish you with a quantity of ems and an 
 amount of press- work that you did not dream 
 of, and he will prove his account, too, in a 
 court of justice, if necessary, to be correct, 
 according to his contract. The man who will 
 take the contract for the purpose of getting 
 it, is the very man to resort to underhanded 
 means to get all he waiil^. I prefer employ- 
 ing a printer at tlie usual rates, compelling 
 liira to resort to no trickery or arts in order 
 to get a<lci]ua(o p;iy. If we let it at tho low- 
 
 est bid, the Pioneer and Democrat^ or some 
 press of that character, will come in and bid 
 very low. They have the officers of the gov- 
 ernment as their auditors, who are .not very 
 much opposed, to say the least, to such pa- 
 pers, and the result of such an arrangement 
 would show that we had helped our enemies, 
 discarded our friends, and saved nothing at 
 all. 
 
 In reference to our printing which is imme- 
 diately necessary, I prefer that a special con- 
 tract should be made. We shall get it done 
 quicker in that way than in any other. Let 
 the Assistant Secretary get it done where he 
 can get it done the quickest, and to the best 
 advantage. I think that is the best course to 
 pursue imtil we go into the election of a prin- 
 ter, which I think should not be done until 
 we can have a full conference of all the 
 members. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I think the difficulty can 
 be'obviated, and in order to do so, I move to 
 amend by striking out all after the word "Re- 
 solved," and insert — 
 
 " That this Convention go into an election for 
 Printer to-morrow at 12 o'clock, M." 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I move to lay the resolu- 
 tion and amendment on the table, and that 
 they be made the special order of the day for 
 to-morrow at 2 o'clock. 
 
 The motion was agi'ced to. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I move that the Secretary 
 of the Convention be directed to procure the 
 execution of such incidental printing as may 
 be necessary to be done unmediately, under 
 the order of the Convention from day to day. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 ACT OF LEGISLATCEE IN REFERENCE TO THE 
 
 CONVKNTIOX. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. \Vc passed an Order 
 yesterday for the printing of 200 copies of 
 the act known as the Enabling Act of Con- 
 gress, in connection with the act of the extra 
 session of the Legislature, relating to the 
 same subject matter. I understand that it 
 has been denied that any such act of the 
 Legislature was passed, or that there is any 
 such act upon the records of that Legislature. 
 Now, sir, it is within my knowledge that sucli 
 an act was published by the official paper of 
 this Temtory. I hold in my hand the copy 
 of an act which was published in the "Min- 
 nesota Republican" of St. Anthony on the 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thcbsday, Jcly 16. 
 
 49 
 
 28th of May last, copied from the ''Phneer 
 <ind Democrat^''' the official paper of this Ter- 
 ritory. It is of considerable importance that j 
 we should have an official copy of that act, j 
 if possible, for by virtue of the provisions of 
 that act, and of that act alone, there are quite 
 a number of delegates in my opinion, hold- 
 their seats in this Convention. As the Sec- 
 retary has been unable to comply with the 
 resolution of yesterday because he could not 
 obtain a copy of that act, I offer the follow- 
 ing resolution : 
 
 " Besolted, That a special committee of three be 
 appointed to procure from the Secretary of this 
 Territory a cenified copy of the Act of the late 
 extra session of the Legislative Assembly, entitled 
 ' An Act to provide for the payment of the ex- 
 penses of the Convention to form a Constitution 
 for the State of Minnesota in accordance with an 
 act of Congress approved March 3d, 1S57,' for the 
 use of this Convention." 
 
 yii. COGGSWELL. Under our rules I 
 suppose that resolution lies over one day. 
 
 PRESIDENT. It will, in aaisequence of 
 the gentleman's remarks. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move that the rules be 
 suspended in order that the resolution may 
 be considered at this time. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. If that motion is 
 debatable, I desire to say, that as one of the 
 members of this Convention, I am decidedly 
 in favor of the resolution laying over vmtil 
 to-morrow. That resolution refers to a cer- 
 tain act of our Legislature. What that act 
 is I shall not pretend to say now, for the 
 reason that perhaps I do not understand it 
 thoroughly in all its bearings; but if my 
 recollection serves me right, there are certain 
 provisions in that act, which in my judgment 
 the Territorial Legislature had no right to 
 pass. There is, or there probably will be, a 
 question raised before the Constitution is rati- 
 ified by the people, and we become a State 
 in the Union, in regard to the constitutionali- 
 ty of certain of its provisions. A question 
 also win be raised at a certain time and in a 
 certain place, in regard to the effect of what- 
 ever steps may be taken by this Convention 
 in reference to it, and I desire that every 
 member should thoroughly xmderstand the 
 effect that each step taken by this Convention 
 may have upon the future prosperity of Min- 
 nesota. For that purpose I desire that the 
 resolution shall lay over imtil to-morrow. 
 7 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I am unable to see any' 
 force in the objection raised by the gentleman 
 who has just taken his seat. If there is an 
 act such as has been referred to, we ought to 
 know what it is, and understand it in order 
 to judge of its constitutionality, and to know 
 what action should be taken by the Conven- 
 tion in regard to it. We only propose to 
 make a call for it, and we can do nothing 
 about it until we know what it is. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. We have abeady passed 
 an order for printing 200 copies of that act 
 in connection with 200 copies of the Enabling 
 Act. Here we are, and have not the means of 
 reading that act by virtue of which we are 
 constituted. We should get at it as soon as 
 possible. 
 
 The question was then taken on the motion 
 to suspend the rules, and there were yeas 40 
 and nays 9. So the rules were suspended, 
 (two-thirds voting in favor thereof). 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I now move that the 
 resolution be adopted. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. By the leave of fee Con- 
 vention I will read what purports to be a' 
 copy of the act which the resolution calls for. 
 
 Mr. S. here read the act and then proceeded 
 as follows : This was taken from the " J/?ft- 
 nesotu Sepublkan" published at St. Anthony, 
 on the 28th day of last May, and it was cop- 
 ied from the '■'■pioneer and Democrat,^'' the 
 official paper of the Territory, of either the 
 same morning, or a morning or two previous. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. If that number of the Pi- 
 oneer and Democrat can be found, it will be, 
 by law, sufficient evidence, of itself, of the 
 passage of the Act. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I have afready suggested 
 the difficulty. I am informed that a member 
 of the Convention who went to consult the 
 records of the Territory, was informed that 
 no such Act as that was on file. Another 
 gentleman who went to consult the file of the 
 Pioneer and Democrat, was informed that no 
 such Act had been published. My object is 
 to take the necessary steps now to ascertain 
 whether any such law has been passed, and if 
 so, whether it is in existence, and if not, wheth- 
 er a copy oH the official paper containing it 
 can be found. 
 
 Whatever views any gentleman may enter- 
 tain of the legality or constitutionality of the 
 law, or any part of it, it vrill be observed that 
 
60 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thubsdat, July 1G. 
 
 it purports to be an Act relating very mate- 
 rially to this Convention and its functions, and 
 it is very important that wc should have it 
 before us in an oflBcial form, that we may 
 guide ourselves by its provisions if they are 
 binding. It seems to me that the first and 
 the proper step to be taken is the one indi- 
 cated by my resolution. If we get a certified 
 copy from the Secretary of the Territory, it 
 is, by law, made evidence of the existence of 
 such an act, and of its provisions. If we do 
 not get it, then we will have to take tlie next 
 best evidence we can get. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I was a member of the 
 last Legislature, and my recollection is that 
 such an Act was passed, and signed, and no- 
 tice of its signature returned. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I had the honor to be 
 upon the committee to which that act was 
 referred. At the request of the chairman of 
 the committee, I drew up the bill, and the bill 
 which has been read is, verbatim, the biQ 
 which passed the House of Representatives, 
 with the exception of the two first sections. 
 They were not in the bill. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. As the chairman was 
 a member of the Council, he would state that 
 the two sections referred to by the gentleman 
 who has just taken his seat, were introduced 
 into the Council by the chairman of the com- 
 mittee to which the bill, which passed the 
 House, was referred. He remembers being 
 in the chair at the time the report was made 
 by the committee, and adopted. It is the 
 distinct recollection of the chair that the bill, 
 «s it has been read, passed the Council, was 
 sent back to the House, and that the House 
 <x)ncurred in the amendment made by the 
 Council. 
 
 It is in the di.stinct recollection of the chair 
 also, that the Enrolling and Engrossing Com- 
 mittees made their several reports, and that 
 the Enrolling Committee reported it back as 
 having been signed by the Governor. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. That is probably tlie 
 manner in which the two first sections got 
 into the bill. The business of tliat session 
 was done generally upon the rail-road sys- 
 tem, (laughter) and it is not surprising that 
 I should not be informed of those facts. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The chair remembers 
 distinctly the individual who oflfcred the 
 amendments. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I am exceedingly 
 sorry that the Convention has seen fit to call 
 up this question at this stage of our proceed- 
 ings, and I am sorry that it is not now per- 
 mitted to lay over until to-morrow. The 
 object of the resolution is to obtain a copy of 
 a certain act passed by our Territorial 
 Legislature at its last session. That act has 
 been read, and, as a matter of course, I have 
 a right to refer to its provisions. If what 
 has been read is a copy of the act for which 
 the resolution calls, I want nothing to do with 
 the act. As a member of this Convention I 
 think I can discharge my duties without 
 knowing anything further in regard to it. — 
 This Convention lias assembled here not 
 under and by virtue of the provisions of that 
 act, but under and by virtue of the provisions 
 of an act of Congress. An act emanating 
 from a power we are bovmd to regard and 
 respect — an authority which we are bound to 
 consider as the highest, provided that its acts 
 are within the scope of the federal Constitu- 
 tion. So far as the act of Congress is con- 
 cerned, I apprehend that there is no difference 
 of opinion between us. Congress had the 
 the right to pass it. In my judgment that 
 act is all that is necessary for us to have in 
 order faithfully to discharge our duties as 
 members of this Convention. It, in the first 
 place, provides that the inhabitants residing 
 wilhin certain limits, shall elect certain indi- 
 viduals whose duty it shall be to assemble at 
 the Capitol of the Territory at a pai'ticular 
 tune. My impression is, that that question, 
 being settled by Congress, cannot be inter- 
 fered with in the least by our Territorial 
 Legislature, and that if our Legislature im- 
 dertakes to repeat the same thing their act 
 has no effect whatever. The rcaffirmance of 
 the provisions contained in the Enabling Act 
 amounts to nothing. A mere legislative con- 
 struction of that act is not, in my judgment 
 binding upon us ; is not to be respected by 
 us ; neither is it binding upon Congress, nor 
 will it be respected by Congress. The Organic 
 Act, organizing the Territorial government 
 of Minnesota, conferred upon the Legislature 
 power to perform certain duties, and pass 
 certain laws, and make certain rules and reg- 
 ulations, and as long as they confine them- 
 selves witliin the scope of that power their 
 acts arc legal and binding. But the moment 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thtbsd ay, Jily 16. 
 
 51 
 
 they depart from it, that moment their acts 
 and proceedings are entirely null and void. 
 The power granted by that Organic Act, is 
 substantially in these words — 
 
 " The Legislative power of the Territory shall 
 extend to rightful acts of legislation, consistent 
 with the Constitution of the United States and the 
 provisions of this act ; and no law shall be passed 
 interfering with the primarr disposal of the soil, 
 Ac." 
 
 Now I am not going to discuss the question 
 raised in the first section of the le^slative 
 act, which is in regard to the payment of the 
 members of this Convention. Nor do I pro- 
 pose to discuss the right of the legislature 
 to make an appropriation for that purpose. 
 We all know what the precedents have here- 
 tofore been. We aU know that "Uncle 
 "Sam " as a general thing, has footed all these 
 bills, and it is my judgment his duty to 
 foot ovu" biUs upon this occasion. But there 
 are certain other provisions contained in that 
 bill, which, in my judgment amount to noth- 
 ing. For instance that provision which pro- 
 vides for the election of two members for 
 each councilman who has to be elected to the 
 Territorial Legislature. It is but a legislative 
 attempt to construe an act of Congress. A 
 right never delegated to the Legislature, and 
 for that reason entirely [null and void. The 
 Enabling Act provides that "on the first Mon- 
 " day of June next the legal voters in each 
 " representative district then existing within 
 "the limits of the'proposed State, are hereby 
 " authorized to elect two delegates for each 
 " representative to which said district may be 
 *' entitled according to the apportionment for 
 "representatives to the Territorial Legisla- 
 "ture" &c. Now the only tribimals which 
 can construe that act, are Congress and the 
 Courts. The act of the Legislature making 
 such construction is entirely nugatory. If 
 the Legislature intended the very same thing 
 which Congress intended, then all I want is 
 the Enabling Act. If they intended a differ- 
 ent thing I do not want their act, for the 
 reason that I believe that it does not amoimt 
 to anything. 
 
 Again, the sixth section of the Territorial 
 act provides that^the qualification of delegates 
 to the Constitution^ Convention shall be the 
 same as for members of the House of Repre- 
 sentatives of the Territorial Legislature. 
 
 That seems to me but a reiteration of the 
 lan<mage of the Enabling Act, and if it is, let 
 us take the Enabling Act itself, and not a 
 substitute. But if the Territorial act conflicts 
 with the Enabling Act, so &r it is entirely 
 null and void. 
 
 I am aware that a great many individuals 
 think that simply because an act has been 
 passed by the Legislature, or by Congress, 
 that it is binding and Constitutional — in other 
 words that it is law. But I apprehend that 
 the lawyers of this Convention know to the 
 contrary. It seems to me that we want no ' 
 other light for our guidance than that ema- 
 nating from the Enabling Act, the Constitu- 
 tion of the United States, and the laws of the 
 Territory which are made a part of the 
 Enabling Act itself. 
 
 For these reasons I shall, at a proper time, 
 move tliat the whole subject be postponed un- 
 til to-morrow. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. It seems to me that this 
 matter might easily be disposed of. My friend 
 who has just taken his seat misapprehended 
 the purport of the resolution. It does not pro- 
 pose to take any action upon that act to-day, 
 but simply calls for a certified copy of it, so 
 that the members of the Convention can de- 
 termine for themselves whether it has any 
 applicability or validity. The gentleman as- 
 sumes that because at the time it was passed, 
 there was an Enabling Act existing, therefore 
 it must be entirely invalid. That does not 
 follow as a matter of course. There may be 
 an Enabling Act, and at the same time a legis- 
 lative act assisting in carrying out the provis- 
 ions of the former. Whether it is such an 
 act, remains to be seen. But what propriety 
 is there in preventing the Enabling Act firom 
 being brought before the Convention ? When 
 it is brought before them, I have no doubt the 
 Convention will deal with it properly. It may 
 be a valid act. I do not say it is. When it is 
 properly before the Convention I shall proba- 
 bly have something to say in regard to the 
 validity of the thing itself, and decide for my- 
 self whether it is best for the Convention to 
 pay attention to it, and whether it is best to 
 proceed exclusively under the Enabling Act 
 of Congress. The Enabling Act may be in- 
 sufficient in itself for the purposes of the Con- 
 vention in all its details ; the paying of it» 
 expenses, &c. 
 
52 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, July 16. 
 
 Now the act of last winter sfcems to pur- 
 port such an object — an effort to provide in 
 detail for holding the ^Convention ; paying its 
 expenses, &c. ; and it may be valid and proper. 
 I do not say it is. I doubt whether it is so, but 
 it is improper to assume that it is invalid, and 
 to prevent gentlemen of the Convention from 
 having an opportunity to examine it. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I am opposed to the pas- 
 sage of the resolution at present. There is 
 some doubt as to the legality of that act. 
 There were doubts in regard to it at the time 
 ■ of its passage. It certainly can do no harm to 
 let the matter remain in its present shape for 
 the time being. If it is a law, it will benefit 
 us the same in the end, whether we get it now 
 or hereafter. If it is not a law, it will be of 
 no advantage to us to request a copy of it at 
 the present time. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I wish to make a remark 
 or two in reply to what has been stated in 
 regard to the effect of that law. So far as it 
 repeats the act of Congress, it is mere sur- 
 plusage, and has no effect whatever. So far 
 as it construes a doubtful point in that act, it 
 might perhaps]^be held to have effect ; for in- 
 stance, as to the word " representative" being 
 taken in its general sense, including the coun- 
 cillors and the members of the House as the 
 representatives from the different districts of 
 the Territory. So far as it construes the act 
 of Congress and decides that under the term 
 "representatives" it meant the election of 
 delegates at large in the place of councillors, 
 I think it fair to take it as a decision of the 
 people, whose agents the Legislature were, 
 upon that question. So also in relation to the 
 pay of the expenses of the Convention until 
 Congress should have an opportunity to pay 
 them. In that view of the subject it is im- 
 portant that we should know whether the act 
 passed or not, and we should have it in an 
 official form. But if this committee is ap- 
 pointed and they cannot find the act in the 
 Secretary's oflSce, they may possibly find it 
 published in the official newspapers ; and that 
 is notice to everybody of the existence of the 
 law. Still I prefer to have the matter lie 
 over for the present, 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Some gentlemen seem to 
 be afraid that some law has been passed, 
 which if legal, will injure us. I hold in my 
 hand a copy of the Pioneer and Democrat of 
 
 the date of May 27th, 1857, the official paper 
 of the Territory, which contains a list of the 
 titles of the Acts passed at the extra sesion of 
 the Legislature. Among them is a bill of this 
 title : 
 
 "An act to provide for the payment of the ex- 
 penses of the Convention to form a Constitution 
 for the State of Minnesota, in accordance with the 
 act of Congress, approved March 3d, 1857." 
 
 I consider that sufficient notice that such an 
 Act was passed, and what has been read here 
 pm-ports to be a copy of that Act Still we 
 have not official information that it is a copy 
 of the Act. We do know that such an Act 
 has been passed, and it is of vital importance 
 that we should know, and know soon, what 
 the provisions of that Act are, and whether it 
 is binding upon us in any respect I do not 
 see how any damage can be done to the Con- 
 vention or to any member. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Suppose we do get it^ 
 what are we going to do ? So far as that pay- 
 ment clause is conceri^ed, I rather it were 
 buried in the deep sands of the sea. I know 
 the United States will pay the expenses of 
 this Convention. If they will not, we can 
 pay them ourselves. If the Act is in exist- 
 ence anywhere, it is published, and if it is pub- 
 lished it is an Act ; and what good it is going 
 to do us to bother ourselves about it I cannot 
 see. I care very little whether the resolution 
 is passed or not. It is law or it is not, and 
 the courts can decide that question when it 
 is brought before them. Every member of 
 the Convention has the right to go and request 
 a copy of it from the Secretary. Under at 
 former Secretary I know that a mere applica- 
 tion by letter, for an Act, was sufficient to 
 procure a copy from him. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move that the reso- 
 lution lie upon the table. 
 
 The question was put and the motion was 
 agreed to. So the resolution was laid on 
 the table. 
 
 BEPOET OF COMMITTEE ON CBEDENTIALS. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN from the special committee 
 to whom was referred the petition of C. B. 
 Sheldon to be admitted to a seat in the Con- 
 vention, by permission, made the following 
 report : 
 
 " That since the recommittal of the subject to 
 them they have given a written notice to R. P. 
 Ri;8.SELL, the person to whom the certificate of 
 election was given for the seat, that the committee 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, July 17. 
 
 53 
 
 would meet on Wednesday, the 15th instant at 3 
 o'clock, P. M., at the Capitol in St. Paul, for the 
 purpose of hearing evidence which might be of- 
 fered upon the subject, and requesting him to be 
 present and contest the claim of Mr. Sheldox to 
 that seat, if he saw fit so to do ; that the commit- 
 tee was in readiness at the hour appointed, but Mr. 
 KrssKLL did not appear. Subsequently your com. 
 mittee desired Dr. Murpht to call upon Mr. 
 RcssKLL to ascertain if he had received the written 
 notice from the committee. Dr. Mcepht has this 
 morning informed the committee that he had seen 
 Mr. RcssELL, and that Mr. Russell informed him 
 that he received the notice from the conmiittee, 
 that he had no cause for appearing before the com- 
 mittee as he had never taken the certificate of 
 election and never intended to ; that he had before 
 informed Mr. Aldeich, a member of the Conven- 
 tion to that effect. All which is respectfully sub- 
 mitted." 
 
 The report of the committee was accepted 
 and adopted. 
 
 Thereupon the following resolution reported 
 from the same committee was taken up and 
 adopted^ viz : 
 
 " Eegolved, That Chas. B. Shkldox is entitled to 
 a seat in the Constitutional Convention from the 
 11th Council District and as such should be ad- 
 mitted upon proper application being made." 
 
 Then, on motion of Mr. MORGAN, Mr. 
 Sheldox appeared at the bar of the Conven- 
 tion, was by the President sworn in, and 
 took his seat as a member of the Convention. 
 
 On motion of Mr. HAYDEN, (at 12 o'clock 
 and 30 minutes) the Convention took a re- 
 cess mitil 3 o' clock, p. m. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSIONS. 
 
 The Convention was caUed to order at 3 
 o'clock, and on motion of Mr. NORTH, took 
 a recess until 5 o'clock, p. ii. 
 
 The Convention was again called to order at 
 5 o'clock, and thereupon immediately ad- 
 journed until to-morrow at 9 o'clock, a. m. 
 
 HFTH DAY. 
 
 Fbidat, July 17, 1857. 
 
 The Convention met at 9 o'clock, a, m. 
 
 Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. E. D. Neill. 
 
 The roll was called, and a quorum being 
 being present, the Journal of yesterday was 
 read and approved. 
 
 PAPEBS FOB MEltBEBS. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The chair takes this 
 opportunity to notify the Convention that the 
 
 Secretary informs him that the Pioneer and 
 Democrat refuses to furnish papers to any 
 member of this Convention imless he becomes 
 individually responsible for the payment. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. U they refuse, that ends 
 the matter, and we are required to take no 
 further notice of it. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL offered the following 
 resolution : 
 
 " Whereas, It hath been represnted that in some 
 of the representative districts of this Territory 
 certain persons who were and still are federal oflS- 
 cers, were voted for as members of this Conven- 
 tion and have received certificates of election, and 
 whereas strong doubts are entertained as to the 
 eligibility of such oflBcers, and the right of such 
 members to a seat in this body : therefore — 
 
 " JResolved, That a committee of three be ap- 
 pointed for the purpose of ascertaining, 
 
 1st. Whether any persons were voted for as 
 members of this Convention who held a commis- 
 sion or appointment under the United States, 
 (Postmasters excepted,) and if so in what districts, 
 and also whether they received a majority of the 
 votes cast, and have received their certificates of 
 election. 
 
 3d. Whether any person who holds a commis- 
 sion or appointment under the United States, 
 (Postmasters excepted) is elegible to a seat in this 
 Convention." 
 
 Mr. C. said : — I wish simply to say that in 
 my judgment the time has arrived when we 
 should take steps to ascertain whether certain 
 individuals are entitled to seats in this Con-" 
 vention. We have already taken the extra- 
 ordinary pains to have our certificates entered 
 at large upon the journals — a very unusual 
 thing — and if there is another tribunal which 
 can investigate our acts, and the fact as to 
 whether we have been legally and properly 
 elected as members of this Convention, it 
 seems to me that they should have all the evi- 
 dence that can possibly assist them in coming 
 to a correct conclusion in regard to the right 
 and authority of this body. I do not desire 
 any definite action upon the resolution to-day, 
 but offer it that members may take the mat- 
 ter into consideration. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. It stiikes me that it 
 is not proper to enter into any inquiry of this, 
 kind, until the question is properly raised. 
 Every member sitting in this body now, is 
 here by virtue of law. Every member here 
 according to the precedents of parliamentary 
 bodies in the United States, is a member de 
 facto, and until the question as to his right is 
 
54 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fkiday, July 1^ 
 
 raised, we cannot enter into an inquiry in 
 regard to it, and I give my opinion now that 
 if we should decide that any member of our 
 body having a certificate has no right here, 
 we have no means of ejecting him but by 
 main force, and whoever should undertake to 
 eject him would be liable for an assault and 
 battery. Any lawyer will tell you that the 
 man who comes with his certificate — the title 
 deed to a seat — is prima facie entitled to it, 
 and should this Convention upon investigation 
 even, without the question being regularly 
 raised, oust h"m from his place, they can only 
 do it by main force, Now there is no one 
 contending for the seat of any member here. 
 If there is any contest, let it be decided by 
 law and precedent. One thing we are cer- 
 tain of: Every man that sits in this body, sits 
 here as a legal member, under the broad seal 
 of his district, and until reasons are put upon 
 the record for his removal, he cannot be re- 
 moved except by main force. We are organ- 
 ized legally, fairly and justly, and we have 
 the right to sit here, against the world. 
 
 The hint has been thrown out that the 
 government will give us no pay. We can 
 pay ourselves. We can make a Constitution 
 and send it to our constituents. I think the 
 resolution is premature, and therefore I hope 
 it will not be passed. But it is Avell to think 
 of the subject, and the gentleman has done 
 well in calling our attention to it. It will 
 enlighten members' minds, and lead them to 
 ask themselves — " Why hold we seats here ? 
 " have we rights here ? Are we members of 
 "the Convention under protection of law?" 
 We are, and that is the opinion of every 
 member here. 
 
 Mr. M'CLURE. This resolution, as I 
 understand, lies over imtil to-morrow, under 
 the rules, yet I think it may be well, for 
 members to express their opinion upon it. I 
 am not in favor of adopting the resolution as 
 it stands, but I should be in favor of it were 
 it modified so as to apply only to members 
 who have presented their credentials. We 
 might properly ascertain whether we have any 
 of these government officers in their scats 
 here, and that object could be fMly attained 
 by the report of a Committee appointed to 
 investigate the matter. 
 
 In reference to entering the credentials of 
 members upon the journals, I shall at the 
 
 proper time make a motion to reconsider the 
 vote by which it was so ordered. I am 
 entirely opposed to such a course. It is 
 unprecedented and ought never to Jiave been 
 adopted. There is no tribunal other than the 
 Convention itself to decide the legality of the 
 election of the members of this Convention. 
 The body itself decides it upon the evidence 
 produced before it. From their decision there 
 is no appeal, unless it may be to the people, 
 and they cannot reverse the decision, but 
 only decide whether we have done right. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move that the resolu- 
 tion and the subject matter thereof be referred 
 to the committee on Elections and Creden- 
 tials, when appointed. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I am exceedingly 
 sorry that I am compelled to disagree with 
 my friend and old law partner [Mr. M'Clure.] 
 who has just taken his seat. I have a high 
 regard for his wisdom, honesty and knowl- 
 edge, but I cannot accede to his views in 
 reference to this matter. He intimates that 
 there is no higher tribunal than this Conven- 
 tion which can review our proceedings. I 
 disagree with him entirely. We are here by 
 virtue of an act of Congress, and we can 
 only come here in a proper, legal and legiti- 
 mate shape. If we come here other than by 
 virtue of the provisions of the Enabling Act, 
 our proceedings are absolutely null and void. 
 The body which confers upon us the power 
 to come, can inquire whether we are entitled 
 to our seats as members of this Convention, 
 and, as such, have power to frame a Constitu- 
 tion or. not. Suppose A, B, and C, and a 
 hundred others, should claim that they were 
 a Convention under and by virtue of the 
 Enabling Act, but in fact there had never 
 been an election held in any of the precincts 
 of the Territory for the purpose of sending 
 them here, do you suppose that simply 
 because tliey said by their journal that they 
 were members of this Convention, — nothing 
 appearing on their journal showing that they 
 were, — those facts could not be inquired into 
 by Congress ? I apprehend not. I appre- 
 hend that we have only to look to the pro- 
 ceedings which the House of Representatives 
 of the United States took in regard to the 
 action of a certain Convention, and of a cer- 
 tain Lcpslature, also, held in tlie Territory of 
 Kansas, to be satisfied of the truth of my 
 
MLVNESUTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, July 17. 
 
 position. I apprehend too, there are other 
 instances in which Congress has investigated 
 the regiJ:irity and legahty of proceedings of 
 Conventions of this character. If so, it is 
 proper for us to look to this matter. 
 
 One word in reply to the gentleman from 
 Scott County [Mr. Galbbaith]. He thinks 
 we have nothing to do with this matter at 
 the present time, and that we cannot have 
 until the question has been raised in the 
 usual manner, by one person claiming the 
 seat of another who claims to be a member. 
 I do not understand it in that light. I under- 
 stand that any member has the right to raise 
 the question. The idea that no man but the 
 one who claims the seat of another can raise 
 the question, is not correct. I do not propose 
 at present to sit in judgment upon the right 
 of any man who has presented his creden- 
 tials tq. this Convention. AH I desire is, that 
 a committee shall be appointed for the pur- 
 pose of ascertaining whether certain individ- 
 uals have been voted for in certain localities, 
 who should not under any circvimstances, 
 become ehgible to seats in tliis body. I agree 
 with the gentleman that the certificate of 
 election is prima fade evidence of right to a 
 seat. But I ask the members of this Con- 
 vention to discriminate between the doctrine 
 that the certificate, being fair upon its face, is 
 presumptive and prima fade evidence of the 
 legality of a person's election, and the propo- 
 sition contained in this resolution, which is 
 simply to make an inquiry in regard to the 
 eligibility of certain individuals, in certain 
 contingencies, to a seat here. I am satisfied 
 that our whole proceedings are to be reviewed 
 by Congress, and I ask, gentlemen, what will 
 be the evidence presented to that body ? The 
 journals of this Convention are proper evi- 
 dence, and when members of Congress look 
 into them and there see certificates of election 
 apparently fair upon their face, they can 
 come to no other conclusion than tliat they 
 are prima facie and presumptive evidence of 
 the rights of these members. "When they 
 see also that there is incontrovertible evidence 
 of the fact that certain individuals, who were 
 voted for in certain localities were officers of 
 the United States government, (Post Masters 
 excepted,) what conclusions can they come to, 
 when they read the Constitution of the Uni- 
 ted States and the Organic Act, except that 
 
 such individuals cannot become members of 
 this Convention imder any circmnstances or 
 in any contingency ? 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I agree with my friend 
 from Scott coimty [Mr. Galbbaith] that this 
 is not the time or place, nor are circumstan- 
 ces such as authorize us to go into an inves- 
 tigation of this matter, at this time. I 
 agree also with my friend from Brookfield, 
 in part, that vmder no circumstances, and on 
 no conditions, am I witling as a member of 
 this Convention, nor am I willing that this 
 Convention itself should proceed to judge of 
 the qualifications or eligibility of members 
 who have never presented certificates of elec- 
 tion here ; have never asked admission into 
 our body ; and probably never will. I must 
 object to that in toto. We must not only 
 act fairly and honestly, but with dignity. We 
 must not step to one side or the other for the 
 purpose of gratifying outside curiosity. Of 
 doing something forsooth, which may look 
 well, unless it is legitimate for this body to 
 do so. Whenever we do so, we place our- 
 selves in a position which I do not wish to 
 occupy. The last gentleman who spoke said 
 he did not wish to sit in judgment on any 
 member who has presented his certificate 
 of election here, and been accepted by 
 this body. We have a certificate of every 
 member of this body, not one of which cer- 
 tificates are contested by an opponent claim- 
 ing a seat here. This resolution then must 
 have reference to members not within this 
 body, and who probably never will be. If 
 so, then we are going into an examination of 
 cases outside of our body. We are upon 
 one side ; who is upon the other ? Is it not 
 an exparte examination by those who are op- 
 posed to those parties whose cases we are 
 examining, without their having any chance 
 to show their claims here. Will it not go 
 forth to the world that it was omr exparte 
 examination? Most certainly it will. This 
 body sits here and is supposed to act not 
 only correctly, but legally. But it is not 
 coiTect for us to decide upon the qualifica- 
 tions of a person who has never asked to be 
 admitted as a member, and who never will 
 come before that proposed committee to make 
 a case for himself. It is not legitimate, and 
 it is not right to do so, and we make nothing 
 hy it. The matter of his bemg an officer of 
 
66 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBxVTES— Fkiday, July 17. 
 
 the United States is a matter which is 
 knowTi, it is a matter of record, and it 
 is not necessaiy for us to go into an exam- 
 ination of it. An investigation of one's eli- 
 gibility is only proper when he asks to become 
 a member. Who knows that such a one will 
 ever ask admission here ? Our investigation 
 into the eligibility of persons who may possi- 
 bly propose to become members, will be a 
 squandering of time which will not pay, and 
 labor which will not satisfy. I am opposed 
 to it, and hope every member will oppose it. 
 I hope we shall take no course for the pur- 
 pose of making capital, and that we will 
 attend to busines which legitimately belongs 
 to us. 
 
 The question was then taken on the motion 
 to suspend the rules, and it was not agreed 
 to, (two thirds not voting in favor thereof). 
 
 The resolution was then laid over under 
 the rules. 
 
 Mr. NORTH oifered the following resolu- 
 tion: 
 
 " Whereas, There are a considerable number of 
 delegates well known to have been elected to this 
 Convention who are now in the citj' and apparently 
 undecided in regard to presenting their creden- 
 tials and taking seats in this body, therefore — 
 
 " JResolved, That this Convention has been and 
 is at all times ready to receive delegates who have 
 been duly elected within the limits of the proposed 
 State of Minnesota, and t hat all such delegates are 
 respectfully invited to present their credentials 
 and take their seats on terms of perfect equality 
 with the present members of this Convention." 
 
 Mr. NORTH said : My reason for offering 
 this resolution is that we may express, as 
 a body, what I beheve to be the sentiment of 
 every individual member, and that we may 
 put ourselves right upon the record. 
 
 Mr, GALBRAITH. I favor that resolution 
 sincerely. Now that all danger of any phys- 
 ical conflict between the contending factions 
 and ourselves here has passed away, I may 
 say that it is a matter of regret that such a 
 state of affairs should exist, and every mem- 
 ber of the Convention so solemnly assembled, 
 thinks it so. We desire to be harmonious. 
 Wc desire that there shall be a union of every 
 member representing a constituency of this 
 Territory, in order that every constituency 
 may have a Constitution in which they have 
 had a voice by their representative ; and it 
 is for us to say So now unanimously, in orckr 
 
 to put forever the brand of falsehood upon 
 the slander that we kept men out by main 
 force. Open all the doors, as they always 
 have been opened, but open them by a unani- 
 mous vote. Say to every man who has a legal 
 right to a seat, " You are welcome to come in 
 " and take a seat and act with us upon perfect 
 "terms of equality." This and no more than 
 this the honor of our State requires. It puts 
 us right upon the record, and it puts our 
 original intentions right upon the record. 
 Never has a single man of this Convention — 
 and I have heard every one express his senti- 
 ments — expressed a single sentiment that 
 would indicate that it was his wish to keep 
 out of the Convention a single man who has 
 a right to be here. We msh now to hold out 
 the ohve branch of peace. If those gentle- 
 men who have a right to come in, wish to 
 come in, invite them to come. Let us put 
 this upon the record, and say to our constitu- 
 ents, and to the world, that the doors of this 
 Hall are not closed against any legally elected 
 member. I know that is the unanimous voice 
 of every man here. I hope for peace and 
 quiet, and though the report has gone abroad 
 that this Convention holds this Hall by force 
 of arms, that report, our consciencies, our 
 votes, our caucuses, and our own knowledge 
 put to rest. We feel that it is not true. Let 
 that slander go with other slanders, where it 
 shoxild go. I hope I shall never again men- 
 tion it. 
 
 I hope this resolution will pass unani- 
 mously. If gentlemen have sentiments upon 
 this subject, I hope they will freely but 
 briefly express them. If our Democratic 
 friends who sit in the opposite Hall — for some 
 cause, I know not what — have any reason for 
 staying away, let us know it : and let us say 
 to them, that because they are Democrats we 
 do not disrespect them as gentlemen. Such 
 an idea has never been expressed. 
 
 Mr. IIAYDEN. I move that the rules bo 
 suspended so as to enable us to put that res- 
 olution upon its passage now. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. It strikes me that the resolu- 
 tion is an undignified one for such a body as 
 this to adopt, and in fact that it is a mere 
 matter of surplusage. Why, wc tell mem- 
 bers that they have a right to come in here, 
 when that right is a matter of notoriety. Wo 
 might as well express our opinion, by resolu- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, July 17. 
 
 67 
 
 tion, by law, that we do not intend to rob or 
 murder tliem. This Convention has been 
 open to everybody to come in. If there is 
 anybody who is not perfectly aware of 
 that fact, it indicates a sti-ange state of igno- 
 rance upon their part, and if there is any 
 wrong impression wliich should be removed, 
 it should be removed in some other way. The 
 resolution strikes me in the most unfavorable 
 light possible. I regard it as an insult. I want 
 to do everything possible to be done, to re- 
 move any misapprehension, and induce those 
 to come in here who have the right. I look 
 upon it as important tliat thej should come 
 in, but I must declare that I look upon that 
 resolution as entirely inappropriate to adopt, 
 and that it will show the proceedings of this 
 Convention in an unfavorable light. I sup- 
 pose the Convention will look upon it merely 
 in the spirit in which it was offered, but that 
 is not the only light in which it should be 
 viewed. We have no right to inform gentle- 
 men having certificates of election, that they 
 have the right to come in. They already 
 know they have. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I have no desire to extend 
 this discussion, but I desire to say that I am 
 opposed to the resolution. "We have come 
 here, and organized imder law. We are the 
 legal Constitutional Convention of Minnesota. 
 We have at present fifty -nine members, and 
 had upon the organization fifty-six. It is be- 
 neath our dignity as a Constitutional Conven- 
 tion to coax a faction to come in, which sees 
 fit, because it cannot get forcible possession 
 of this Hall, to organize itself in another part 
 of the House. They are aware that they 
 should have come up here in a peaceable man- 
 ner, and that those having legal rights to 
 seats would not be refused. I am opposed 
 to coaxing unruly children. I am opposed to 
 buying them to do right, by presents of candy 
 and sugar. I have seen the effect of that 
 course too often. I am opposed to sending 
 out to the world this resolution, and I hope 
 every member will vote against it. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I wish to give my opinion 
 briefly in common with others, upon this 
 question. It seems to me the height of folly 
 to discuss a question of this kind. It has 
 been the fortune of my life to have been 
 thrown somewhat into different kinds of 
 societv, and in that time I have received calls 
 ' 8 
 
 to meet my friends at different points, and 
 sometimes I have felt gratified to meet with 
 them. But that was done in a social way. 
 But we come here as representatives to form 
 a State Constitution for the incoming State of 
 Minnesota. Agreeable to the provisions of 
 the Enabling Act of Congress, which author- 
 izes this Convention, we found ourselves as- 
 sembled here last Monday morning, as the 
 representatives of the people. Nearly a week 
 has passed away, and we have found out by 
 the conjectm"es of some men here, that there 
 is a class of men in St Paul, who, forsooth, 
 have been elected to represent the dear people 
 of this commonwealth in this Convention, but 
 who have neglected to present their creden- 
 tials. Now, sir, I do not wish to cast any 
 imputations upon men because they do not 
 come up to the i-ack, fodder or no fodder, 
 and present such credentials ; but, sir, for us, 
 as representatives, to extend oiu* hands to 
 them, and with this poUte invitation, beg 
 them to come in and take seats among us, 
 when, if as good citizens, they woiold do their 
 duty, they would be here, is a solecism to me. 
 I trust the resolution wiU be voted down. 
 For my pait I am not willing that this matter 
 of burlesque should go the country, and give 
 them to understand that this deliberate body, 
 containing fifty-nine representatives coming 
 fi-om different sections of the Territory, 
 would come here and ask a minority of 
 men in the city of St. Paul to come in and 
 sit down beside us. I like the principle of 
 of "milk for children, and strong meat for 
 men." They have the right to come here and 
 take seats when they present us their creden- 
 4aals, and we have not the right to question 
 them if they are not contested. I am willing 
 to see spread upon the record that which will 
 represent to the people our fairness, but I do 
 not see anything which calls for us to send 
 out an invitation to men to do what they know 
 they have a right to do at any time. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I hope that the rules 
 may be suspended, that this resolution may 
 be considered and passed at this time. I 
 have no fears that in passing a resolution of 
 this sort, that I as an individual member of 
 this Convention, or that the Convention itself 
 is going to compromise its dignity in any 
 respect. It has been stated outside that our 
 course has been such as to preclude thoK 
 
^8 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, July 17. 
 
 members to whom the resolution refers, from 
 xjoming in here. Now this resolution simply 
 contradicts that assertion. It is simply a de- 
 claration upon our part, without retracting 
 anything we have said, without retracting one 
 single step of our course, without expressing 
 any regret for any act we have performed, 
 that we are and have been desirous that those 
 men who hold certifieaftes shall come in and 
 take their seats. I, as a member of the Con- 
 vention am desirous that they should do so. 
 I desire their aid and assistance in the labors 
 before us. There are among them men of 
 experience, ability and wisdom, whose advice 
 would be useful and servicable to this Con- 
 vention. If by passing this resolution we can 
 counteract the false reports which have been 
 •circulated, without compromising our dignity, 
 without retracting anything we have said or 
 done, I see nothing objectionable in it to say 
 the least. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I beg to differ from those 
 gentlemen who oppose the resolution. Such 
 is human natm-e that it is often necessary 
 that men should receive line upon line and 
 precept upon precept before they wiU be 
 induced to come up to that which they know 
 •to be right. They have to be urged, entreat- 
 ed and invited in various ways, and I never 
 supposed that to do so, was undignified, or 
 imgentlemanly. The great moral reforms of 
 our world are based upon that principle, and 
 I do not consider it undignified to ask those 
 men to come in and take seats with us, 
 though they know and their constituents 
 know, it is their duty to do so. We should 
 be glad to have them here, and if by giving 
 them to understand that we are ready to 
 receive them, and to do by them as we 
 would they should do to us, they should be 
 induced to come, I think we shall have accom- 
 plished an important work. I hope the Con- 
 vention will vote to suspend the rules, and 
 will pass the resolution. If they do come 
 and act with us everything will go on harmo- 
 niously, and we will speedily accomplish that 
 for which we were sent here, and the people 
 will be satisfied. 
 
 The question was taken on the motion to 
 suspend the rules, and it was decided in the 
 affirmative. 
 
 The question then recurred on the passage 
 of the resolution. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. It seems to me that this is 
 a very plain and simple matter, and one 
 wliich should not occasion much diflference of 
 opinion. If we were circumstanced just as 
 those gentlemen are to whom that resolution 
 refers, and we felt as I have no doubt many 
 of them feel — desiring very much a different 
 state of things — we should feel much more 
 like coming and taking our seats if we were 
 met cordially, the hand of friendship extended 
 to us, and we treated like friends and neigh- 
 bors in this matter, than we should if we saw 
 an unfriendly and turbulent disposition mani- 
 fested towards us. Kind words, it is often 
 said, cost but little, but they are very useful. 
 
 Many long contests, strifes and wars have 
 sprung from a few hard words in the com- 
 mencement. I have no idea that any thing 
 we say and do in the adoption of this resolu- 
 tion wiU give any one the impression that this 
 Convention lacks the courage, nerve, or de- 
 cision, to stand up to the right. We have 
 our reputation pretty well cstabhshed at the 
 present time for that, and I hope also for 
 courtesy and kindness to those who differ 
 from us. By passing this resolution wo 
 extend our hand to them cordially, and give 
 them a polite invitation, and thus declare that 
 we appreciate their ability and services in the 
 Convention. If they do not choose to accept 
 the invitation, we place ourselves in the right 
 position at any rate. If they spurn it, it but 
 increases the difficulties under which they 
 labor. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I am reluctant to oppose the 
 resolution as it seems to meet the views of 
 the Convention, but it seems to me unprece- 
 dented in its character. I consider it entirely 
 impertinent to suggest to those gentlemen to 
 do what they know they have a right to do. 
 It seems to me that this body should avoid 
 any deviation from the ordinary course of 
 proceeding. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. On consultation with sev- 
 eral members, and believing it sound policy I 
 offer the following substitute : 
 
 " Whereas, There are several districts in the 
 Territory which ore not fully represented, in this 
 body, and whereas we understand there are seve- 
 ral delegates now in St. Paul who are entitled to 
 scats with us, and whereas it is desirable to com- 
 plete the appointment of the several committee? 
 of this body as soon as possible and to have in 
 such committees the services of all the deleg^itci 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fkiday, July 17. 
 
 !»y 
 
 who are entitled to seats in the Constitutional 
 Convention in order that our constituents may 
 hare the benefits of the combined wisdom and ex- 
 perience of all their delegates in the important 
 work of firaming their Constitution ; therefore be 
 it— 
 
 " Besohed, That the President be requested to 
 delay the appointment of the several committees 
 of the Constitutional Convention till Monday the 
 2i>th July instant, and that all persons who claim 
 to be entitled to seats as delegates be respectfiilly 
 requested to present their claims to this Conven- 
 tion before that time." 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I should be in favor of that 
 substitute, if amended by striking out the 
 request to the Preadent to delay the appoint- 
 ment of Committees. With that exception, I 
 prefer the substitute to the original. 
 
 Mr. SEGOMBE. I did not intend to make 
 any remarks upon the original resolution, but 
 the substitute presents a different aspect of 
 affairs, and I shall oppose it. I believe it is 
 the wish of a majority of the Convention that 
 the committees should be appointed immedi- 
 ately, and that we proceed to the discharge of 
 the duties for which we have assembled, and 
 then go home and present the Constitution to 
 the people for ratification. I do believe it is 
 bad poUcy to delay the matter any longer. 
 "We are properly organized and ready to pro- 
 ceed to business. We are already near the 
 close of the first week, and this proposition is 
 for the still further delay of two or three days. 
 I do not favor the object of this delay, but I 
 do not propose to object to the passage of 
 the resolution imaccompanied by the definite 
 action proposed by the substitute. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. "SVhen this resolution 
 was first presented I regarded it unfevorably. 
 
 It is well known that my desire is for union 
 if possible — ^any union which will not sacrifice 
 any prerogatives which this Convention has 
 already acquired ; which will not sacrifice our 
 dignity, and our rights to be an organized 
 Convention. I stand here feeling just as cer- 
 tain that we are organized according to law 
 and justice, as I can be. I feel that we are the 
 Constitutional Convention contemplated by 
 the law. For that reason and various others 
 which I need not mention, I came to the con- 
 clusion last night that longer delay was un- 
 necessary and uncalled for, and that we ought 
 to have the committees announced to-day. 
 
 I said that when the resolution was first 
 submitted I disapproved of it. But wise men 
 
 in this body, in whom I have confidence, and 
 and one especially in whose judgment I have 
 as much confidence as in any man in this 
 body, have suggested to me that it is well 
 probably to pass this resolution. He says to 
 me, " You are a lawyer, and does not this 
 " resolution operate as a notice to those who 
 " have not pres«ited their credentials that 
 " we will not wait beyond a certain time, and 
 " if they whose services we need and desire 
 " upon the committee, do not appear within 
 " that time, we will proceed to their appoint- 
 " ment ?" Such would be but following out 
 the corffse usually taken in matters of public 
 concern. Now there are among that niunber 
 of men not in this Convention — kept out, I am 
 sorry to say, by some foolish party whim, I 
 know not what — on whom this Territory looks 
 with great esteem and respect. So do I, and so 
 do we all. They are men who have the qualifi- 
 cations of that mature intelligence which entitle 
 them to important positions upon the Com- 
 mittees of this body. If those men refuse to 
 come in, yet we shMl have ^ven them public 
 notice of the fact. 
 
 The substitute is nothing more than the 
 original resolution, with the simple addition 
 of a fixed time for the appointment of the 
 committees. As to the day, it is but to- 
 morrow and Monday next. Saturday and 
 Sabbath intervene. In that period they can 
 have time to consider, we will be ri^t upon 
 the record, and the world will see, as we can 
 see now, that this Convention have acted 
 fairly ; that they have organized and have the 
 power in their hands, but have not made a 
 desperate use of that power. We, gentlemen, 
 are imder the protection of law, and the pro- 
 tection of the majority, as we believe. We 
 are here, plainly, clearly, and wisely organ- 
 ized. What submission is it for the victor to 
 be honorable? Why strike a fallen foe? 
 Hold our position where we are firmly, and 
 what will the world say ? It will stamp the 
 brand of falsehood upon the slander cast 
 forth, that this Convention has met here as a 
 mob, and that we are so. It will make a 
 clean record. Men who read our records will 
 award us justice and say we are right. 
 Reconciliation upon honorable terms is the 
 disposition of every man in this body. Upwi 
 this groimd we stand, and ask for our ri^ts 
 and ask for nothing more. Is not that fair? 
 
60 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, July 17. 
 
 What harm, then will this do us ? It is im. 
 portant that we should be right upon the re- 
 cord, and, that we should refute the slanders, 
 which have been heralded throughout the 
 counhy. Be right ourselves, and if others will 
 persist in the wrong, convinced against their 
 will, we wash our hands of the consequences 
 and say — " Gentlemen, you are the victims of 
 " your own folly." 
 
 I hope that the resolution will pass, not 
 that I was Originally in favor of it, but be- 
 cause wise and cool heads in this body, and 
 as firm men as ever stood upon this floor, 
 have said they wanted the resolution passed. 
 I yield to their views, and I trust that every 
 member of this Convention will yield to what 
 is right, and adhering to our ovm, tell the 
 world that we are ready to do right and jus- 
 tice to others. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I offered my substitute 
 with some fear that it might be objected to 
 by many members, because I well know the 
 anxiety of the Convention to proceed to busi- 
 ness, and because I know their convictions 
 are that we are the Convention, and that 
 there is no doubt as to the correctness of our 
 position. For those reasons I felt reluctant 
 to offer it. But I thought I had reason to 
 believe that it was better for us to pursue 
 the course usually pursued in all courts of 
 justice — give notice before we take judgment. 
 Let them know that if on or before a certain 
 day they do not perform or complete a cer- 
 tain act, we will and can wait no longer. It 
 at once removes all excuse for delay. They 
 know and the public know that our course is 
 marked out, and that we are going right 
 straight ahead. It is but a small concession. 
 To-day nothing vrill be done ; to-morrow is a 
 non- working day, and Sunday is another. 
 All that is asked is to delay until Monday 
 morning, to give them notice of the delay, 
 and that after that time the record is made 
 up, and our course is onward. If after that, 
 any thing happens which they do not like, 
 theirs is the fault. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I do not intend to oppose 
 the resolution of my colleague, although I 
 am unable to sec the propriety and dignity of 
 stopping at this period of the Convention and 
 attempting to clear up our character. We 
 are assembled by authority of law, and 
 assembled for legitimate business. I think if 
 
 the course we hereafter pursue is as consist- 
 ent as the one heretofore, all will be well in 
 the end. I am opposed however to the sub- 
 stitute because it proposes still further delay, 
 contrary to the well expressed sentiment of 
 a majority yesterday. It seems to me to be 
 the play of children. I see no evidence of a 
 disposition on the part of those holding cer- 
 tificates to come into this body. They were 
 in this Hall on the day specified in the Ena- 
 bling Act for the assembling of this Conven- 
 tion. But they staid only long enough to 
 adjourn themselves and go out of the Hall. 
 I do not consider that we are bound, in 
 honor or courtesy, to wait longer, and have 
 our noses snubbed any more by those disaf- 
 fected delegates, if any such there are. We 
 can afford now to go along with our business 
 and do the work for which we are assembled. 
 If we are assembled according to law, why 
 stop to clear up our character, and make any 
 further show to the world than we have 
 already made, that we intend to do the fair 
 thing. If there are any individuals in town 
 entitled to seats, let them present theii* certifi- 
 cates, and then it will be soon enough to 
 show that we have no disposition to exclude 
 them from this body. I hope the resolution 
 will not be adopted, and that the committees 
 will be appointed, in accordance with the 
 general sentiment yesterday. 
 
 Mr. KING. We have no evidence in any 
 oflBcial document that there ever has been a 
 disposition upon the part of the Convention 
 to exclude any members from their seats, and 
 these outside reports, of which gentlemen are 
 atraid, are not true. What is the use of ask- 
 ing men to disbelieve what they know is not 
 true? They know they have the right to 
 come here. If I wanted to go into a body 
 to which I had a right of admission 1 would 
 knock at the door, and if not admitted would 
 take due course of law to get my rights. I 
 would not wait to be invited and coaxed in 
 any such manner. If we coax them in, they 
 will be, when they get in, like other spoUed 
 children. Let them come in like men, and 
 they will act like men. I have myself como 
 to the conclusion that some of our men who 
 have been unflinching heretofore, are begin- 
 ning to wjvcr, and are becoming afraid of 
 the consequences. If I see much further 
 demonstrations of the kind, I shall vote for 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— J-^ridat, Jllt 17. 
 
 <1 
 
 some new leaders who will go ahead witliout 
 fear. 
 
 Mr. MESSER. I see there are some gen- 
 tleman here in favor of the resolution and 
 opposed to the substitute. There seems to 
 me an inconsistency in this. If they are in 
 favor of inviting those gentlemen to come in, 
 it is inconsistent to say that they will proceed 
 with business at once so that they shall be 
 debarred fix)m being members of the com- 
 mittees. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I ask each member of 
 the Convention, if the passing of the resolu- 
 tion would accomplish the object contemplated 
 by it, he would not vote for it ? WiU it not 
 have a direct influence towards accomplishing 
 that object? I have learned that concession 
 always comes with better grace firom a su- 
 perior, and I have found its influence in 
 individual cases extremely beneficial, and I 
 think its exercise exalts instead of debases 
 the man. It is said that we are confident of 
 our integrity, and of the correctness of our 
 position and that we ought to pursue our 
 course energetically. That is true, but there 
 is a haste which is not proper. TVe may 
 nm so fast that we stimible. "We should 
 make all due progress, and discharge ovu* du- 
 ties faitlifuUy, efficiently, and in such a man- 
 ner as to be able to go home to the people 
 and stand approved in that second sober 
 thought which will be brought to bear upon 
 our actions. I do not consider a wish to de- 
 lay tliis matter as an evidence that we wish 
 to turn back. "When I consider the interests 
 at stake, the object for which we are met, and 
 the difficulties which will be obviated by a 
 little caution, I am certainly vrilling to vote 
 for this delay. There is no man present who 
 is not aware that we shall meet with innu- 
 merable difficulties, even if we form a Consti- 
 tution, if it is an erparte one. Now, is there 
 any man so fearful, so distrustful that the 
 right will not prevail, that we must iu"ge on 
 our matters to day ? Is there any disrespect 
 or want of good faith in saying to those men 
 that we want them to come in ? I would 
 delay action not only to-day and to-morrow, 
 but still further if in this great work we 
 could be united and move on harmoniously 
 as one man in the accomplishment of the 
 work for which we were sent here. 
 
 I do not believe in turning back, not at all. 
 
 I believe that we are the regular Convention, 
 that its duties are to be performed by us, and 
 so far from yielding, if a majority say pro- 
 gress now, I am with them, but it is my 
 candid opinion that it is discreet and proper 
 to say to those who are not present to see 
 what we do, and who are beyond the reach 
 of the influences which prevail here, that we 
 are willing, yea, anxious to avail ourselves of 
 the intelligence, the experience and the wis- 
 dom of all elected to this Convention, in the 
 formation of a Constitution, which is not for 
 us alone, but for future generations. The 
 breach is widened by outside influences, and 
 no other power than this Convention can heal 
 it. I propose to do nothing dishonorable 
 to those members of the Convention, and I 
 ask for no concessions. But I would say to 
 them that we have open doors, open hearts, 
 and ready hands to welcome them here. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I have not desired to occu- 
 py time in the discussion of this resolution. 
 It seems to me that it is well to pass it. The 
 more I reflect upon it, the more I am in favor 
 of the substitute as it stands, without the 
 amendment which I suggested when I was 
 up before. 
 
 It is gratifying to me to see the determina- 
 tion and resolution of the Convention ; and 
 to see even our clerical friends nerve them- 
 selves in so war-like a manner, is a little 
 refreshing, and even if they accuse some of 
 us of being tame and flagging in our patriot- 
 ism, we will bear vrith them for the purpose 
 of seeing the good, courage and grit there is 
 upon their part. But it seems to me there is 
 nothing lost in showing courtesy in this mat- 
 ter. K I thought there was a member of 
 this Convention who regretted any step this 
 Convention had taken, who wavered for a 
 moment in r^ard to the straight forward 
 course we should piirsue, I should feel very 
 differently firom what I do. But I have the 
 most complete and perfect confidence in every 
 member of the Convention — even in those 
 who would suspect us of flagging ; and having 
 that perfect confidence and security in regard 
 to the matter, I feel as though I should like to 
 see this Convention show its good nature, its 
 magninimity and its kind feelings towards 
 those who have placed themselves in an awk- 
 ward position. I know if we were in their 
 position, we woxild like to be taken cordially 
 
62 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fikday, Ji;ly i; 
 
 by the hand and to be treated with that cour- 
 tesy with which we all desire to bo treated. 
 There is sometimes a great deal gained by 
 forbearance. We have seen that exemplified 
 in the warfare in Kansas, where some of the 
 true patriots were impatient and indignant at 
 the forbearance, and what they sometimes 
 thought, the timidity of the Free-State lead- 
 ers in Kansas. But experience has taught 
 that that forbearance was the truest wisdom. 
 If we err, let it be upon the side of forbear- 
 ance, and not by raslmess and haste throw 
 away, the possibility of harmonizing this Con- 
 vention, and cut ofl' the prospect of a speedy 
 formation of a State, and the admission of 
 Minnesota into the American Union. I hope 
 gentlemen will look upon this matter in a 
 practical light. While we concede nothing 
 of our rights in doing this, we do show a dis- 
 position of neighborly fairness, jdnd feeling 
 and courtesy towards those who occupy a 
 position different from ours. I hope the sub- 
 stitute will pass, and it would do me good to 
 see it pass unanimously. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. When the resolution 
 was first introduced it struck me as being 
 beneath the dignity of this body, and as in- 
 sulting to those members, but on a second 
 thought I am led to believe that it is in pur- 
 port, what it was in the spirit and intent 
 of the mover. I has been suggested that the 
 resolution is unprecedented; and certainly 
 the circumstances are unprecedented. If I 
 recollect right there was a sort of semi-ofiicial 
 statement made that the members of this 
 Convention, not in this HaU, were actually 
 excluded from it. I refer to the answer of 
 the President of the Convention to a certain 
 demand which was made for the Ilall, at a 
 time when we were in session, by him who 
 assumed that he had the right, by virtue of 
 his ofiBce as Secretary of the Territory, to 
 preside over this Convention. Perhaps this 
 body ought to take the earliest opportvmity 
 possible to correct any such impression, if it 
 exists. It may be possible that those who 
 have neglected to take their seats with us 
 may be laboring under the idea tliat they 
 were excluded from this body by that reply, 
 and as has been said, every act of concilia- 
 tion, mildness and forbearance upon our part, 
 will redound to our honor. Let us do all we 
 can consistently to throw oil upon the troubled 
 
 waters, and to accomplish that for which we 
 were sent here, in order that Minnesota may, 
 as speedily as possible come in as one of the 
 States of our Union. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. At the present time 
 almost every deliberative body is divided into 
 two classes, the one denominated " A'oung 
 Americans," and the other " Conservatives," 
 and sometimes " Old Fogies." Now I sup- 
 pose if this body were thus divided I should 
 be classified with the "Young Americans," 
 but I am disposed under the circxmistances in 
 which we are placed, to listen to the voice of 
 wisdom, and to pursue the course believed to 
 be most judicious. If I err, I choose to be 
 upon the right side. The circmnstances are 
 peculiar, and demand cautious action upon 
 our paii;. When I came here this morning 
 I was in favor of proceeding with our busi- 
 ness immediately, but having conferred with 
 gentlemen of the Convention in whose expe- 
 rience, wisdom and integrity I have great 
 confidence, I am now inclined to tliink it will 
 be judicious for us to pursue the course pro- 
 posed by the substitute. It will serve as a 
 notice to those who are without, that unless 
 they see fit by a certain time, to come in and 
 take part with us, we shall proceed without 
 them. I hope it wUl be adopted. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I admire in the first 
 place, the kind sentiment and feeling which 
 have been manifested here by certain individ- 
 uals upon my right. They are men of high 
 standing, whose opinions and sentm^ents are 
 entitled to the highest regard, and I warrant 
 you, should they see any of their friends, or 
 even enemies, in circumstances requiring aid, 
 they would be the first men to step forward 
 and grant it. But it seems-to me that this is 
 not the proper time or place to express our 
 S3rmpathetic feelings. We are assembled 
 here as a Convention for the purpose of trans- 
 acting business as such Convention, and so 
 far as this substitute is concerned, I, as an 
 individual, am opposed to the whole of it. 
 Why ? Not because it proposes to delay the 
 announcement of the Standing Committees ; 
 for in my judgment that would make no 
 difference in regard to the result of our delib- 
 erations. I wish to tell gentlemen here, if I 
 understand what is to come in the future, that 
 this idea of hurrying on with our proceedings 
 will prove to be wholly fallacious. The idea 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, Jcly 1^ 
 
 68 
 
 that we can lay the result of our deliberations 
 before our constituents in one, three, or fire 
 weeks is fcillacious. If we look at what our 
 duties must necessarily be, we shall see at 
 once that we cannot perform some of the 
 most material parts of our labor until we as- 
 certain the amount of our population. With- 
 out that, how are we to arrive at our repre- 
 sentative, state, senatorial, and congressional 
 districts ? Can you get the census in one, 
 two or three weeks ? How will you obtain it ? 
 If you cannot obtain it, how can you complete 
 yom- labors and go home to your constituents 
 with your constitution ? 
 
 It is not then that the substitute proposes 
 to delay the appointment of the committees 
 that I oppose it, but because, if I understand 
 it, it offers to those gentlemen what I should 
 consider an insult. Much has been said in 
 regard to its being a concession on our part. 
 Should it pass, I should not regard it as such, 
 but as an insult to those who should be mem- 
 bers of this body. AYhy ? We J)ropose, in 
 the first place, to tell them that they are mem- 
 bers of this Convention ; not only that, but 
 they are entitled to seats here ; and not only 
 that, but that we want them to come into the 
 Convention and deliberate with us. Are they 
 fools? Do not they know that they are 
 elected as members of this Convention, and 
 are we, the legitimate body, to sit here and 
 adjudicate upon that fact before they present 
 their credentials ? Is it for us to say to them, 
 " You are actually members of the Conven- 
 "tion, and now for Heaven's sake come in?" 
 If I were one of those gentiemen, I would 
 regard it as a practical insult. I would say 
 to you members of the Convention — " You 
 " have no authority to tell me, nor is there 
 " any propriety in your teUing me, what my 
 "rights and privileges are. I know them 
 " weU myself." For that reason I am oppos- 
 ed to the passage of the resolution. 
 
 If we were sitting in caucus, and an 
 attempt were being made to bring about a 
 reconiciliation between Democratic and Re- 
 publican members of • this Convention, my 
 judgment is that I should use just as sympa- 
 thetic words as have been used here, for the 
 purpose of effecting that reconciliation. And, 
 in my judgment, a caucus is the only proper 
 place to consider such a subject a.s this. 
 
 Much has been said about slanders which 
 
 have been circulated. How do you know 
 that slanders have gone abroad ? Has any 
 member of this Convention been hit ? If he 
 has, what were the means used for hitting 
 him? Some might say the newspapers of 
 St. Paul. And to show to the Editors of the 
 newspapers, and the people of Minnesota 
 that he has been wronfully charged with cer- 
 tain conduct, and that he is not such a scoun- 
 drel and villain as has been asserted, gentie- 
 men would have this resolution passed. Let 
 me tell gentiemen that I want no better place 
 to repel any false charges which may be 
 brought against us, than the stimip before 
 the people. I want no better evidence than 
 the newspapers themselves, and the record 
 of our proceedings. 
 
 Again, how do you know that there are any 
 members outside of this Convention? When 
 I introduced my resolution a short,time since, 
 touching the fact that certain members had 
 been elected who were federal officers, post- 
 masters excepted, objection was raised iliat a 
 question of that kind was not before the Con- 
 vention, and that it could not be raised before 
 us as a Conventional body except in the case 
 that such a man had presented his certificate 
 of election, and his seat was contested. But 
 now we propose to take it for granted that 
 there are certain men running around St. 
 Paul, who are actually members of this Con- 
 vention, and vmder a " whereas " the resolu- 
 tion assmnes that there are such members, 
 and proposes to invite them in. For myself 
 I am opposed toany such " whereases " with 
 such assumptions attached to them. If there 
 are such men, they know their rights ; and if 
 they know them, like the rest of us, they 
 win maintain them. Such is our determina- 
 tion, and my judgment is, such is their deter- 
 mination. For that reason it strikes me that 
 to pass tills resolution would be a departure 
 from our dignity as a body. We should go 
 on and discharge our legitimate functions and 
 duties, and when tiie proper time comes for 
 us to repel slanders, let us repel them. 
 
 What will this invitation to them to come 
 in, amount to? Suppose the resolution is 
 passed, do you suppose they will come in, in 
 accordance with it ? Why, they will make 
 all kinds of ridicule of us : they will lau^ at 
 us : they will sneer at us ; and in my judg- 
 men they will do nothing more than right 
 
e4 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Feiday, Jcly 17. 
 
 For that reason I am in favor of going about 
 our business as a Convention, and opposed to 
 going to work to compromise with individu- 
 als in the streets of St. Paul, whom we assume 
 to be members. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. I offer the foUowing 
 amendment to the substitute : 
 
 Strike out all before the word " resolved" 
 and all after the word " resolved" and insert : 
 
 "By this Constitutional Convention, that there 
 are districts within the limits of the proposed 
 State of Minnesota unrepresented in this Conven- 
 tion (at the present time) and being desirous that 
 every district should be fully represented in the 
 committees of this Convention, we therefore re- 
 quest the President of this Convention, to defer 
 the appointment of the said committees until 11 
 o'clock, A. M., on Monday next, in order to give 
 time for absent delegates to present their creden- 
 tials." 
 
 I hope this amendment will be adopted, 
 not because it is offered by myself, but be- 
 cause I am opposed to all " whekeases" and 
 to anything of the kind, assuming that there 
 are gentlemen in town entitled to seats in 
 this Convention, who have not presented their 
 credentials. As a member of this Constitu- 
 tional Convention I do not know anything 
 about it ; as a man I know something about all 
 these matters, but as a member I have no right 
 to know whether a majority of this Convention 
 are RepubUcans or Democrats. All I know is 
 that I am a member of the Constitutional Con- 
 vention assembled at the Capitol at St. Paul, 
 for the purpose of transacting the legitimate 
 business of such Convention. But all men 
 know that there are certain districts unrep- 
 resented here. Who should represent those 
 districts I know not. Whoever they are, the 
 probability is that business or sickness de- 
 tains them at home ; at any rate the assump- 
 tion is that they are lawfully detained. We 
 arc not to presume that they are in town, 
 and refuse to present their credentials. Well, 
 in order to give them time to get here and to 
 participate in our proceedings, and to take 
 part as members of our committees, I offer 
 my amendment and hope to sec it adopted. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. That amendment ex- 
 actly suits my views. The gentleman has 
 exactly hit the nail upon the head. 
 
 The question was then taken by yeas and 
 nays upon the adoption of the amendment to 
 the substitute, and it was decided in the af- 
 firmative, yeas 51, nays 1 as follows : 
 
 Teas — Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Ayer, Bal- 
 combe, Baldwin, Bates, Bartholomew, Billings, 
 Bolles, Butler, Colburn, Coggswell, Coe, Ceder- 
 stam, Coombs, Davis, Duley, Dickerson, Eschlie, 
 Foster, Folsom, Galbraith, Gerrish, Hall, Hayden, 
 Harding, Hudson, Hanson, Holly, King, Lyle, 
 Lowe, Mantor, McClure, Messer, Morgan, Mills, 
 Murphy, Perkins, Putnam, Peckham, Bobbins, 
 Ilussell, Stannard, Secombe, Smith, Sheldon, 
 Vaughn, Walker, Winell and Watson. 
 
 JVai/s — Mr. Phelps. 
 
 The substitute as amended was then adop- 
 ted. 
 
 ENTEKING CREDENTIALS ON THE JOURNALS. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I move to reconsider the 
 vote, taken the other day, by which the Secre- 
 tary was directed to enter our credentials on 
 the journals of the Convention. It seems to me 
 entirely unnecessary to make such an entry. 
 It makes a great deal of work for the Secre- 
 tary, and it will cost something to print them. 
 The credentials have been referred to a com- 
 mittee, by them examined and reported to the 
 Convention as correct. It seems to me that 
 that is all that is necessary. 
 
 Mr. COGSWELL. I hope the motion will 
 not prevail. For one I am in favor of having 
 the evidence of my right to a seat in the 
 Convention, placed upon the journal. 
 
 The question was taken and the motion to 
 reconsider prevailed. 
 
 The question then was " shall the creden- 
 tials be entered upon the journals?" and be- 
 ing put it was lost. 
 
 On motion of Mr. FOSTER, it was— 
 
 Ordered. That the credentials of members be 
 filed with and preserved by the Secretary. 
 PLACING THE ENABLING ACT ON THE JODENAL. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON offered the foUowing resolu- 
 tion : 
 
 "Beaolved, That the law of Congress under 
 which this Convention has assembled be recorded 
 on the first page of the journal of the first day's 
 proceedings." 
 
 The resolution was laid over one day un- 
 der the rules. 
 
 ADJOUBNMENT OVER. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move that when the 
 Convention adjourns, it adjourn initil Monday 
 morning at 9 o'clock. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I should prefer that 
 we adjourn to a later hour on Monday, as 
 some of us, having business at home, do not 
 live quite as near as the gentleman from St. 
 Anthony. I move 11 o'clock, as an amend- 
 ment. 
 
MINNESOTA CuNVENTION DEBATES— Fsiday, Jcly 17. 
 
 65 
 
 Mr. SECOilBE. I accept the amendment. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I can see no good 
 reason why we should adjourn imtil Monday, 
 imless it be to accommodate a few of our 
 friends who happen to live within a short 
 distance from St. Paul. It is well known 
 that most of us Uve at a great distance from 
 this point. I Uve about one hundred miles 
 distant. I wish here to state that I hope 
 the Convention vriU not adjourn until ihsA 
 time, for the reason that I intend, after con- 
 sultation \vith members of this Convention, 
 to move an adjournment for some three weeks 
 or more. I am inclined to think that an 
 adjournment for that length of time vrill be 
 necessary for the circumstances under which 
 we are placed. If we diould come to the 
 conclusion that that is necessary, it seems to 
 me that we might come to that conclusion 
 between this time and next Monday morning, 
 if we remain in session. There is certain 
 information indispensibly necessary for us to 
 have before we can go to work successfully. 
 The way and manner in which we can obtain 
 that information is a great question in my 
 mind. There are certain methods which can 
 be adopted for the purpose of procuring it. 
 If we adjourn now until Monday, considera- 
 ble time wild^lapse in which we cannot trans- 
 act the business which should be transacted 
 prior to a conclusion of the Convention that 
 they will adjourn over two or three weeks. 
 
 The question was taken on the motion to 
 adjourn over and it was decided in the 
 negative. 
 
 ACCEPTANCE OF THE PKOPOSITIONS OF CON- 
 GRESS. 
 
 Mr. ROBBIXS called up for consideration 
 the resolution of Mr. !McKuxe, presented on 
 Wednesday last and laid on the table under 
 the rules, in reference to accepting the propo- 
 sition submitted to Congress, contained in 
 the fifth section of the Enabling Act. 
 
 The resolution was read. 
 
 Mr. ROBBIXS. I understand that it is 
 necessary that we should dispose of this 
 matter before any action is taken in the for- 
 mation of a Constitution. We should dispose 
 of it as soon as possible, in order that we 
 may receive the benefit of the fifth section, 
 by which five per cent, of the net proceeds 
 of the public lands are granted to ike State to 
 be disposed of by the Legislature. 
 9 
 
 i There is one point in the fifth section which 
 
 i should be looked at, and that is this : 
 
 I 
 
 j "Provided, The foregoing propositions herein 
 
 I offered are on the condition that the said Con- 
 
 I vention which shall form the Constitution of said 
 
 i State shall provide, bv a clause in said Constitu- 
 
 ' tion, or an ordinance, irrevocable without the con- 
 
 I sent of the United States, that said State shall 
 
 • never interfere with the primary disposal of the 
 
 I soil \vithin the same, by the United States, &c" 
 
 It seems to me that this clause leaves it 
 ; discretionary with us as to the manner in 
 I which it shall be complied with, whether by 
 I a clause in the Constitution, or by an ordi- 
 1 nance. It was contended yesterday that 
 ! this Convention had no right to pass an ordi- 
 nance. It seems to me otherwise. If we 
 I do so, we avail ourselves of the immediate 
 ! benefit of the five per cent, provision, because 
 the ordinance will go into efiect immediately 
 upon its passage, and notice given of it to 
 the Commissioner of the General Land Office. 
 I hope the resolution will be adopted, and I 
 know of no more appropriate time than the 
 present. 
 
 Mr. KING. I think the gentleman is mis- 
 taken in his construction of the proviso. It 
 provides that we put a clause in the Consti- 
 tution, or an ordinance in the Constitution. 
 It seems to me that the compliance must ap- 
 pear in the Constitiition, and we shall get no 
 benefit of the five per cent, fund imtil the 
 Constitution is adopted. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I move that the reso- 
 lution be laid on the table. My object is to 
 have it referred to one of the standing com- 
 mittees, when they are appointed. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, And the resolu- 
 tion was laid upon the table. 
 
 On motion of Mr. HARDING, (at 12 
 o'clock and 30 minutes) the Convention took 
 a recess until 2 o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 The Convention was called to order at 
 two o'clock: 
 
 TAKING OF THE CENSUS. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL on leave offered the 
 following resolution : 
 
 " Besolved, That a Committee of three be ap- 
 pointed to wait upon the United States Marshal, 
 and ascertain if any steps are being taken by him 
 in regard to the taking of the census, and if so, 
 at what time in his judgment, he will be able to 
 lay the same before the committee." 
 
66 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, July 18. 
 
 Mr. C. said: I wish to say that in my 
 judgment it would not be improper for this 
 Convention to ascertain what action the United 
 States Marshal intends to take in regard to 
 the census. For that reason I hope the rules 
 will be suspended and that this resolution will 
 be acted on to-day. 
 
 The rules were not suspended and the reso- 
 lution was laid over imder the rules. , 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS moved that the Convention 
 adjourn. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would suggest that the 
 Convention adjourn over until Monday at 11 
 o'clock in order to give those who do not 
 reside at any great distance time to go home. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I do not think that it 
 would be wise for the Convention to take that 
 course. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Very well, I wiU not make 
 the motion. 
 
 The Convention then adjourned until to- 
 inorrow at 11 o'clock, a. m. 
 
 SIXTH DAY. 
 
 Saturday, July 18, 1857. 
 The Convention met at 11 o'dock. 
 Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. E. D. Neii.l. 
 The Journal of yesterday was read and 
 -approved. 
 
 BEPOBTING. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. The committee having 
 •charge of the matter of employing a reporter 
 'beg leave to report : 
 
 "That after jpnferring with several gentlemen 
 'upon the subject, they have received a proposition 
 from Mr. Anduews to take a full report of the de- 
 bates and proceedings of the Convention at the 
 ■rate of $6.25, per one thousand words. The com- 
 mittee have become satisfied that it is the best ar- 
 rangement they can make, and therefore submit 
 the following resolution : 
 
 Resolved, That Thkodork F. Andrews, Esq., be 
 employed to take a full report of the proceedings 
 of this Convention, and that he be allowed $0.25 
 per thousand words for taking such report. 
 
 The resolution was adopted. 
 
 ACCEPTANCE OF UNITED STATES PKOPOSITIONS. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I have a resolution wliich 
 I wisli to offer as a substitute for the one 
 -offered yesterday, which, if I recollect it, pro- 
 posed to provide an ordinance accepting thq 
 
 propositions of the Enabling Act. Some 
 questions were raised at that time as to the 
 meaning of the Enabling Act. For the pur- 
 pose of silencing any questions of that kind, 
 I propose to introduce the resolution in a little 
 different shape. I move this as a substitute : 
 "Eesolved, That -there be incorporated into the 
 Constitution of the State of Minnesota to be framed 
 by this Convention, a clause, irrevocable withoirt 
 the consent of the United States, ' That the said 
 State shall never interfere with the primary dis- 
 posal of the soil within the same by the United 
 States, or with any regulations Congress may find 
 necessary for the securing the title in said soil to 
 'bonafide purchasers thereof; and that no tax shall 
 be imposed on lands belonging to the United 
 States ; and that in no case shall non-resident pro- 
 prietors be taxed higher than residents.' " 
 
 It seems to me this is all the Convention 
 need do now, and it seems to me that the Con- 
 vention may and should insert such a provis- 
 ion in the Constitution. As far as the power 
 of the Convention to form an ordinance out- 
 side the Constitution is concerned, this will 
 obviate the necessity of any such ordinance. 
 I suppose the resolution will be referred to 
 some one of the standing committees with 
 instructions to report such a clause to be 
 inserted in the Constitution. -J think this is 
 the safest and best way of prAeding. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I submit whether this reso- 
 lution had not better lie over until the other 
 resolution on the same subject comes up for 
 consideration. I am afraid we shall shingle 
 our journal all over in different spots with 
 these resolutions, without making a good roof 
 any where. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The resolution having 
 given rise to debate, lies over under the rule. 
 
 ELIGIBILITY OF CERTAIN MEMBERS ELECT. 
 
 Mr. COG G SWELL called up for consider- 
 iition, the resolution of inquiry offered by him 
 yesterday, in reference to the election of per- 
 sons to this Convention who held commis- 
 sions from the United States Government, &c. 
 
 Mr. HARDING moved to lay the resolution 
 on the tiiblc. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 CENSUS OF MINNESOTA. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL then caUed for tlie con- 
 sideration of a resolution offered yesterday, 
 for the appointment of a committee to wait 
 upon the Marshal of the Territory to make 
 
MINNESOTA C0N\T:NTI0N DEBATES— Saturday, July 18. 
 
 er 
 
 certain inquiries in reference to taking the 
 census of the Territory. 
 
 The resolution was read. 
 
 ^[r. FOSTER moved to lay the resolution 
 on the table. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. For my own part I 
 cannot see any reason why the resolution 
 should he over until Monday. If there is any 
 reason, I should like to hear it stated. It 
 seems to me necessary for the Convention to 
 have the census of the Territoiy in order that 
 they may discharge theu* duties in a proper, 
 correct and impartial manner. The Enabling 
 Act makes it the duty of the United States 
 Marshal, as soon as the Constitutional Con- 
 vention shall have passed a resolution declar- 
 ing it to be the wish of the people of the pro- 
 posed State to come into the Union, to imme- 
 diately cause a census to be taken. That 
 resolution has been passed by the Constitu- 
 tional Convention, and a copy of it has been 
 transmitted to the Secretary of the Interior, 
 and also to the United States Marshal. "We 
 need that census to act upon in carving out 
 our State representative, our State senatorial,^ 
 and our representative districts. We cannot 
 adjourn and carry a Constitution home to our 
 constituents, ,\mtil we have that knowledge, 
 or knowledge which will answer the same 
 purpose. 
 
 It has been suggested by certain members 
 of the Convention that the object of Congress 
 in directing the Marshal to take the census 
 was simply and solely that we might ascer- 
 tain how many representatives we were enti- 
 tled to in Congress, and that we can arrange 
 that matter just exactly as well without the cen- 
 sus as with it. I do not understand it to be so. 
 I do not understand that to be the sole object 
 of Congress. But admit for the sake of the 
 argument that it was ; now according to offi- 
 cial documents which have been placed be- 
 ' fore the people, emanating from the Governor 
 we are entitled, to say the least, to two mem- 
 bers of Congress. If we are entitled to two 
 members, of course it is the duty of this Con- 
 vention to carve out tliose two Congressional 
 districts. Such was the course pm-sued in 
 Wisconsin, Indiana, Alabama, Iowa, Illinois, 
 and by all other Conventions which have as- 
 sembled imder Enabling Acts like om"s. If 
 it is our duty to carve out those districts, and 
 make them a part and parcel of our Consti- 
 
 tution, it seems to me that we can come to 
 no other conclusion than that it is indispensa- 
 bly necessary for the Convention to ascertain 
 whether the census has been, or is to be tak- 
 en. If it is not to be taken, we want to know 
 it. Why '? That we may resort to tlie next 
 best course to ascertain about what our pop- 
 ulation is. If it is to be taken, we want to 
 kno^ that fact, and what the probability is as 
 to the time when the returns can be present- 
 ed to this body. 
 
 Now, as an individual, I know that certain 
 steps are being taken by the Marshal. I 
 know that certain individuals have been in 
 this town for the purpose of receiving orders 
 and directions in regard to the discharge of 
 their duties in that respect. I know that 
 individuals havB already gone from this town 
 with instructions to enter \ipon that work 
 about the first of August. It seems to toe 
 not improper that this Convention should 
 call upon the Marshal and ask him, in a 
 respectful manner, what steps he has taken 
 for the purpose of laying that information 
 before us, and what the probabihties of his 
 success. K we do it at all, we ought to do 
 it at once, so that we may proceed to the 
 discharge of our duties. If the census is to 
 be laid before us in three, foiu", or five weeks, 
 it is our duty to take steps to place the Con- 
 vention in a condition to avail themselves of 
 it. If this censiis is not to be taken, let us- 
 proceed at once to form a Constitution and 
 carve out our districts according to the best 
 information we can obtain, and authorize the 
 President of this Convention to issue writs, 
 for the election of whatever officers should 
 be elected, according to the best information 
 we can obtain. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. It might after a time, 
 perhaps, be necessary to wait upon the Mar- 
 shal and ascertain at what time the necessary 
 returns can be had, but at present it does 
 not seem to me right and proper to appoint 
 a committee to call upon that officer and 
 ascertain whether he proposes to do his duty. 
 If Congress has provided that he shall do a 
 certain thing at a certain time, we are bound 
 to believe that he will do it, and do it as 
 expeditiously as possible. He cannot prob- 
 ably inform us, at present, how soon it can 
 be effected. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. 1 move that the resolu- 
 
68 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 20. 
 
 tion be laid on the table and made the special 
 order for Monday next at two o'clock. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I think we had better not 
 be in haste in pressing this matter at this 
 time. The resolution proposes to appoint a 
 committee to await upon the Marshal. Well, 
 sir, the Marshal is a very excellent man I 
 believe, and a good officer. But, sir, this 
 Convention represents the people of Minne- 
 sota, and I am not ready at this time to stoop 
 from the pedestal on which we stand to await 
 on him and ask him if he intends to perform 
 his duty. The terms of the Enabling Act 
 make him an inferior officer to act under the 
 direction of the Secretary of the Interior. 
 The Secretary of the Convention has notified 
 him that the Convention has decided in favor 
 of the immediate admission of the State into 
 the Union. We have complied with the law, 
 and I think we had better not proceed further 
 at present. At all events there can be no 
 objection to a short postponement. I move 
 that the Convention adjourn until Monday 
 next at 11 o'clock, a. m. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and thereupon 
 at fifteen minutes past 12 o'clock, the Con- 
 vention adjourned. 
 
 SEVENTH DAY. 
 
 Monday, July 20, 1857. 
 The Convention met at 11 o'clock, a. m. 
 Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev, E. D. Neill. 
 The Journal of Saturday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 STANDING COMMITTEES. 
 
 The PRESIDENT, in pursuance of the 
 resolution of Friday last announced the fol- 
 lowing standing committees : 
 
 On PrearrH)U and Bill of Bights — Messrs. CoGOS- 
 WELL, Watson, Winell, Smith and Messeb. 
 
 On the Legislative Department — Messrs. North, 
 PcTNAM, Anderson, Aier, Stannahd, Sheldon 
 and FoLsoM. 
 
 On the Executive Department — Messrs. Aldricb, 
 Vaughn, Haydkn, Morgan and Ode. 
 
 On JSoundaries — Messrs. Perkins, Putnam, Wil- 
 son, Stannard and Harding. 
 
 On State Officers other than Executive — Messrs. 
 Billings, Hatden, Kino, Kemp and Cleohorn. 
 
 On the Judiciary Department — Messrs. Wilson, 
 Oalbbaith, Killings, North, McClurb, Stannard 
 and McCann. 
 
 On Organization and Government of Cities, and 
 Villages — Messrs. Morgan, Murphy, Eschlie, Mc- 
 Clure, and Hall. 
 
 On Salaries — Messrs. Kemp, King, Bolles, Dick- 
 ERSON and Watsox. 
 
 On County and Township Organization — Messrs. 
 Thompson, Russell, Wxnell, Baldwin and Ceder- 
 
 STAM. 
 
 On tlie Elective Francliise — Messrs. Cederstam, 
 Wilson, Eschlie, Harding and North. 
 
 On Finance, Taxation and Public Debt — Messrs. 
 Stannard, Peckham, Holley, Hall and Dicker- 
 son. 
 
 On Educational Institutions and Interests — 
 Messrs. Messer, Baldwin, Thompson, Gerrish, 
 McClure and Mills. 
 
 On Banhing and Corporations other than Muni- 
 cipal — Messrs. Colburn, Aldrich, Bates, Bolles, 
 Thompson, Secombe and McClure. 
 
 On Exemption of Heal and Personal Estate, and 
 the Rights of 31arried Women — Messrs. Smith, 
 Phelps, Peckham, Lyle and Ayer. 
 
 On the Punishment of Crimes — Messrs. Davis, 
 Duley, Butler, Lowe and Morgan. 
 
 On Amending and Revising the Constitution — 
 Messrs. Holley, Hanson, Coombs, Hudson and 
 Vaughn. 
 
 On Internal Improvements — Messrs. Robbins, 
 Hanson, Maxtor, Walker and Perkins. 
 
 On Impeachments and Removal from Office — 
 Messrs. Messer, Folsom, Lowe and Galbraith. 
 
 On Public Property and Expenditures — Messrs. 
 Secombe, Phelps, Murphy, Mills and McKune. 
 
 On Miscellaneous Provisiions — Messrs. Galbraith, 
 McCann, McKune, Davis and Coe. 
 
 On the Arrangement and Phraseology of tlie Con- 
 stitution — Messrs. McClure, Anderson, Foster, 
 Bates and North. 
 
 On Schedule — Messrs. Foster, Cogcswell, Hud- 
 son, Robbins and Sheldon. 
 
 On Printing — Messrs. Foster, Duley and Rus- 
 sell. 
 
 On Supplies and Expenditures — Messrs. Aldrich, 
 Gerrish, North, Butler and Lyle. 
 
 On Elections and Credentials — Messrs. Gal- 
 braith, Cleghorn, Coombs, Messer and Walker. 
 
 On the Militia — Messrs. Mantor, Bartholomew, 
 and Colburn. 
 
 The PRESIDBifT then proceeded to call 
 the order of business, and under that call 
 the following resolutions laying on the table 
 were taken up for. consideration. 
 
 The resolution offered on Saturday last, by 
 Mr. Perkins, in reference to incorporating 
 into the Constitution a clause complying with 
 the proviso contained in the fifth section of the 
 Enabling Act. 
 
 On motion of Mr. GALBRAITH, the res- 
 olution was referred to the committee on 
 MiscoUanenuR Business. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 20. 
 
 «9 
 
 CEXSCS OP THE TEBEITOBY. 
 
 The next resolution in order was the reso- 
 lution for the appointment of a committee to 
 wait upon the Marshal to make certain ruqui- 
 ries in regard to taking the census. 
 
 The resolution was read. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I trust that resolution will 
 not be adopted. I do not think it is exactiy 
 the thing for this Convention to appoint a 
 committee to solicit an inferior oflBcer of the 
 government, one who, by the terms of the 
 law, acts under the Secretary of the Interior, 
 and cannot act independently of him, to 
 perform the duties which he is required by 
 law to do. To do so, it strikes me, would be 
 to step beyond our proper bounds. "We 
 should not properly represent the dignity of 
 the people of Minnesota. It will be time 
 enough to call upon him when we ascertain 
 that he is not doing his duty. After sufficient 
 time has elapsed to see whether he is going 
 on to take the census, then we may properly 
 inquire of him how soon we may expect the 
 census returns presented to us. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. I move to amend the 
 resolution by striking out all after the word 
 " ascertain " and to insert in lieu thereof the 
 following — 
 
 "At what time in his judgment, he will be able 
 to complete the taking the census of the Territory 
 of Minnesota." 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. The adoption of the amend- 
 ment will put the thing in a much better 
 shape than it was before, but still I remain 
 of the opinion that we had better not make 
 the inquiry. That officer, in all probability, 
 would tell us he did not know ; that it was an 
 uncertain matter depending upon the instruc- 
 tions he should receive from his superiors at 
 Washington. I understand he has already 
 answered, in that way, inquiries which have 
 been made by individual members of the 
 Convention. I shall vote for the amendment, 
 and then shall vote against the whole propo- 
 sition. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I think, vriih my friend 
 who has just taken his seat, that if we make 
 a call upon the Marshal we shall not know 
 any more about it, after we receive his an- 
 swer than before. This Convention cannot 
 act upon any information it may ascertain in 
 that way. I do not mean to impute any- 
 thing wrong to the Marshal. Every member 
 
 of the Convention knows that the Marshal 
 himself cannot tell, and if he could, he would 
 not probably be very anxious to give us any 
 information beyond what he is required to 
 give. Every man here who knows the pres- 
 ent state of tilings, knows that we will not 
 receive any reliable information, first, because 
 the Marshal himself does not know, and sec- 
 ond, l^ecause he would not tliink we have 
 any business to make the inquiry of him. 
 When we absolutely know that we cannot get 
 any . information, I do not think it best to 
 make the inquiry. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I am in favor of the 
 amendment for the reason that it is one of 
 the duties of this Convention to apportion the 
 future State of Minnesota for legislative, judi- 
 cial, and perhaps other purposes. If we can 
 get the census contemplated by the Enabling 
 Act laid before us, it would be the best basis 
 we could have for that apportionment. If 
 we are not to have it, it will become incum- 
 bent on us to take some measures to procure 
 the basis otherwise. It seems to me proper 
 for tliis Convention to ascertain at the earli- 
 est moment whether there is a probability of 
 our having the benefit of the United States 
 census to aid us in our labors. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. I cannot conceive how 
 this Convention is to lower its dignity by 
 making this inquiry. Now my amendment 
 proceeds upon the supposition that the Mar- 
 shal intends to do just what he is required by 
 law to do. We have no right, as a Conven- 
 vention, to presume that he intends anything 
 else, and we merely ask him when, in his 
 judgment, the result can be laid before us. 
 
 So far as the answer we may receive from 
 him is concerned, I do not think we have any 
 right to presvmie that he will give us to un- 
 derstand that it is none of our business. The 
 government officers are gentiemen of the 
 highest respectability, courtesy and kindness, 
 and we shall receive from him a courteous 
 answer. Just so far as he is able to ascer- 
 tain about what time the matter will be com- 
 pleted, he will inform us. As gentlemen have 
 said, it will be absolutely necessary to have 
 some information upon this subject, and I do 
 not know of any better way than to get the 
 judgment of that officer as to the probabilities 
 of his furnishing it. I hope the substitute 
 will be adopted. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 20. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. As far ns I am ac- 
 quainted with the individual holding the 
 office of United States Marshal of this Terri- 
 tory, I can vouch for him as a gentleAan in 
 every respect ; but, sir, it seems to me as if 
 this proceeding was all unnecessary. The 
 Enabling Act itself says that the Marshal of 
 the Territory of Minnesota shall proceed to 
 take the census of the Territory under such 
 instructions as shall be given by the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior. It is already too early 
 for us ■ to presume that the Marshal of the 
 Territory has received any instructions from 
 the Secretary of the Interior, inasmuch as 
 any instructions from him must await the 
 decision of this Convention relative to the 
 wish of the people of the Territory to become 
 a State. I see then no reason why we should 
 take this step at present. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Being the mover of 
 this resolution, I deem it my duty to say a 
 few words in regard to its propriet}-, and also 
 to come to the rescue of the United .States 
 Marshal to a certain extent. Now I say I do 
 despise this idea of pre-supposing that an 
 United States officer is not a gentleman, and 
 that he would not take delight in furnishing 
 us with such information as may be within 
 his knowledge. The only reasons which have 
 been urged against the passage of this resolu- 
 tion are, first, that we have no right to ask the 
 United States Marshal if he is going to do his 
 duty. It seems to me that this Convention 
 has a perfect right to ask him if he is going to 
 do that which the law requires him to per- 
 form — and especially so under the circum- 
 stances in which we are placed — and that it 
 is nothing more than proper, and only what 
 we owe to ourselves and to our constituents. 
 Perhaps there might be circumstances in 
 which it would be improper for us to inquire 
 whether a certain officer would perform his 
 duty. But circumstances alter cases, and in 
 my judgment, the circumstances in which we 
 are placed at the present time, require that we 
 should ascertain whether he is going to do 
 that which is required of him by the fourth 
 section of the Enabling Act. It would nei- 
 ther lower our dignity, nor do anything wrong 
 to him. 
 
 The second reason is, that he does not 
 know himself, and therefore he cannot inform 
 us. Perhaps it may be that he docs not 
 
 know. I do not pretend to say that he does, 
 but I think it can be satisfiictorily shown to 
 members of this Convention that instructions 
 have already been received by him from the 
 Secretary of the Inteiior upon the presump- 
 tion that this Convention would pass a vote 
 affirming that it is the wish of the people of 
 the proposed State of Minnesota to come into 
 the Union as a State. As the Enabling Act 
 does not require the Secretary to wait vmtil 
 such a vote is given, there seems nothing im- 
 proper, on his part, in issuing instructions 
 based upon the supposition that this Conven- 
 vention would pass such a vote. Neither 
 would such a course be anj-thing unusual or 
 out of the ordinary course. 
 
 Another reason urged against this course is 
 that even though the Marshal had the infor- 
 mation, he would not feel inclined to furnish 
 that information to this body. I do not be- 
 lieve that the Marshal is any such kind of a 
 man. I believe he would furnish it to us as 
 soon as to any other body, and that he would 
 take delight in so doing. I know of no other 
 source to go to for this information. If gen- 
 tlemen will tell me of any other source, I am 
 willing to apply to that. But the Congress of 
 the United States have provided a source, and 
 that source is the United States Marshal. In 
 my judgment, steps are already being taken 
 upon his part for the purpose of accomplish- 
 ing that object ; and if that is so, he will in 
 my judgment, readily and cheerfully inform 
 us. As an individual member, I am desirous 
 of knowing the facts in regard to it, so that I 
 may perform my duties in a manner satisfac- 
 tory to my constituents. 
 
 I do not ask the passage of the resolution 
 simply because I moved it, but because I 
 believe it is due to this body ; because I be- 
 hove there is nothing improper in it; and 
 because I believe the Marshal liimself would 
 regard it as a pleasure to furnish this Con- 
 vention with all the information which lies in 
 his power. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I have the honor to be 
 acquainted with the United States Marshal, 
 and I do not mean to intimate that he will do 
 anytliing which is not in accordance with hi.s 
 duty, nor do I mean to say, nor do I sa3% 
 that he is not a gentleman ; but I will say that 
 a resolution that asks a man if he is going to 
 do his duty, implies that he is not going to do 
 
M1^'NES0TA CONVEXTiON DEBATES— Monday, Jlly 20. 
 
 71 
 
 his duty ; and it is a question I would nev- 
 er answer to any man so long as I were a 
 public officer. It is presumed that every 
 man, and especially every government officer, 
 will do his duty. If, as gentlemen say, it is 
 his duty to take a census immediately, and 
 he has instructions to that effect, he will go 
 on and do his duty. 
 
 Now when, by resolution, we as a body 
 ask for anything, it should be because the 
 answer to that resolution would enUghten us 
 as a body, or in some way modify our action 
 as a body ; because if it cannot modify our 
 action, we have no right to ask it. If the 
 object be merely individual gratification, let 
 us as individuals, call upon him. Now will 
 our action as a Convention be modified by 
 any answer we may receive? Not at all. 
 Whatever answer may be received, we will 
 take the same course as a body. If we are 
 not going to be influenced by the answer, 
 why ask for anything. It is a 0010*56 we 
 ought not to adopt. "We might as well appoint 
 a committee to obtain papers which are not 
 jiecessary. 
 
 Again, this United States Marshal, I sup. 
 pose beyond a doubt, beheves that we are no 
 Constitutional Convention, and if we call upon 
 him, he will be likely to treat us accordingly. 
 He will treat us as gentlemen, certainly. If 
 1 were an officer, believing that a certain set 
 of men assembled together were nothing more 
 than a town meeting, as some have more po- 
 litely termed us, and they should appoint a 
 committee to wait upon me to see if I were 
 going to take a census as such officer, I would 
 •treat them as well as I could, but I should 
 not be likely to inform them what I was going 
 to do. I hope the resolution will not be 
 adopted. 
 
 The question was taken oa the amendment, 
 and it was not agreed to. 
 
 The resolution as amended was then disa- 
 greed to. 
 
 I.IMITATIOX OF DISCUSSIOX. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH by mianimous consent, 
 introduced the following resolution : 
 
 Besolced, That no member of this Conveution be 
 permitted to speak for a longer time than fifteen 
 minutes, nor more than twice upon any single sub- 
 ject, unless by the unanimous consent of the Con- 
 vention. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I would suggest to the 
 gentleman that he should move to amend the 
 
 hour rule by moving to strike out " one 
 hour," and insert " fifteen minutes." 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I have no objection to 
 accepting such a substitute. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. The seventh rule now 
 reads as follows : 
 
 " Xo member shall speak more than twice on the 
 same question, nor more than one hour at any one 
 time without leave of the Convention, nor more 
 than once until every member who chooses to spealc 
 shall have spoken." 
 
 I move to strike out the words " one hour," 
 and insert " fifteen minutes." 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I accept that as a 
 substitute for my motion. 
 
 Mr. ALDRIGH. I am in favor of inserting 
 " ten minutes " in the place of " fifteen min- 
 utes." As a general thing, I can say all I 
 have to say in ten minutes. I do not know 
 how it may be Mith others, but in order to 
 test the question I move that amendment. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I am not myself in favor 
 of long speeches, and I do not think any one 
 can accuse me of a propensity to inflict them. 
 But at the same time there may be occasions 
 in tliis body when the production of docu- 
 ments, and the making of arguments upon 
 important principles wUl require more than 
 ten minutes, and I am unwilling to see this 
 reform run into the ground in this way. I 
 think a fall from one hour to fifteen minutes is 
 a pretty good descent. It is often said, "/a- 
 cilis decenmis acerni " — the downward road is 
 very easy ; and it would seem so in this case. 
 I think a Constitutional Convention is for de- 
 bate to a certain extent. The privilege of 
 speech may be abused, but I think fifteen 
 minutes is not very long, and it certainly is 
 short enough. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I have no doubt that sub- 
 jects will be introduced, upon which we shall 
 want to talk longer tlian ten or fifteen min- 
 utes, and possibly, in the progiess of the 
 Convention, individuals may want an hour. 
 Should such occasions arise, perhaps impor- 
 tant questions might be discussed fi"eely by 
 unanimous consent, or in committee of the 
 Whole. As a general thing I am in favor of 
 very short speeches upon matters of business, 
 and to make long speeches upon every ques- 
 tion which arises in which only a word or two 
 is necessar}-, I do not tliink to be good policy. 
 I am in favor of the ten minute rule. * 
 
72 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 20. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Upon aU questions 
 of serious importance I have no doubt the 
 Convention will resolve itself into a com- 
 mittee of the Whole, when there will be 
 latitude of debate, and opportunity for eve- 
 ry member to speak as he desires. But 
 in the Convention proper, I think it is the 
 general opinion of this body that it would 
 be well to have as short speeches as possible, 
 and have them pungent and to the point. It 
 will compel us all to think what we want to 
 say, and to present it in due shape. There 
 is no doubt that irritants fi'om outside sources 
 will be applied to this Convention, and one 
 of the objects of this motion was to prevent 
 us from noticing any of them. The business 
 is our own, and to the work of framing a 
 Constitution we should apply ourselves assid- 
 uously, and with a will. We can form a good 
 Constitution, as we have the material in the 
 Convention, and we have plenty of good pre- 
 cedents by which to guide ourselves. It 
 seems to me that it is well to have a rule con- 
 fining ourselves to short speeches. Every 
 member will know when the subject demands 
 more extended remarks, and then unanimous 
 consent can be given. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I am opposed to the whole 
 matter — amendment and all ; but as I sup- 
 posed the resolution would pass I proposed 
 the amendment so that a two-third vote could 
 suspend the rule, which I understand would 
 not be the case of the resolution as originally 
 offered had passed. Those who could speak 
 longest in this Convention are those whom I 
 am most anxious to hear, and who could not 
 speak without giving me some information. 
 
 Mr. AL|!>RICH. I presume gentlemen here 
 will act courteously towards each other, and 
 if any gentleman desires to speak more than 
 ten minutes, he can have the privilege of do- 
 ing so by unanimous consent. I am willing 
 to extend that courtesy if gentlemen desire it. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I suggest that no gentle- 
 man would speak longer than ten minutes, 
 unless he was desirous of doing so. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I concur with the 
 gentleman from Winona (Mr. Wii-son) in his 
 views in regard to this matter. I for one am 
 opposed to the whole arrangement. The Con- 
 stitution of the Uniled States guarantees to 
 me the right of speech, and I do not like to 
 have a Republican Convention undertake to 
 
 deprive me of that right. And not only that, 
 but it seems to me that if a man desu"es to 
 make a speech he should be heard. If I want 
 to make a speech longer than my friend Al- 
 DRiCH does, I should be allowed that privi- 
 lege, and if he wants to make a short speech, 
 I will not insist upon his making a long one. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I am in favor of freedom 
 of speech, but I also believe in the equality 
 of the rights of men. It was never intended 
 that a certain few should govern the rest of 
 mankind. We meet as equals, to work and 
 not to talk. Most men will condense more 
 thought and argument with a ten minutes 
 speech, if they are compelled to confine them- 
 selves to that space of time, than they would 
 in an hour under the present rule. 
 
 But I do not consider the length of time so 
 essential as I do another part of the rule, and 
 that is that no member shall speak more than 
 once until all others shall have been heard". 
 Our speeches sometimes remind me of speeches 
 of pettifoggers on the trial of a cause. One 
 counsel states an idea, and the opposite coun- 
 sel wants to reply to the frivolous and irrele- 
 vent matter, and the debate goes off entirely 
 upon points which have nothing to do with 
 the decision of the case. If one member 
 takes a diSerent view from what I do, and he 
 answers my argument, it is not necessary for 
 me to defend my position, but some other 
 gentleman can do it for me. I am in favor 
 of the fifteen minute rule, and of a strict ob- 
 servance of that part of the present rule 
 which provides that members who have once 
 been heard shall remain silent until all others 
 shall have had an opportunity of being heard. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I am opposed to this 
 whole thing. There are questions of grave 
 and vital importance to come before this de- 
 liberative asser^bly, and I am not in favor of 
 regulating the mouths of the members of this 
 Convention by the hands of that clock, but 
 like my friend near me (Mr. Cogoswell) I am 
 in favor of liberty of speech. If a man can 
 make a speech in ten minutes and weigh all 
 matters which arise on these important mat- 
 ters, we can say " well done good and faithful 
 " servant." But there are men of experi- 
 ence in this body, to whose opinions I should 
 bow with deference, and to whom, upon tho 
 important questions which will be discussed 
 here, I should be willing to listen sixty min- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 20. 
 
 YS 
 
 utes, and six time sixty if necessary. It is 
 important and necessary that we should have 
 all the light and information possible, upon 
 these questions, and how shall we get them ? 
 By this ten mhiute rule? Certainly not. 
 But gentlemen say they will extend the time, 
 and give ten minutes longer. But we find 
 ourselves involved in this dificulty, after a 
 gentleman has spoken ten minutes he looks 
 at the clock, and then gazes around this delib- 
 erate assembly with an inquiring look, seem- 
 ing to ask " gentlemen are you willing that I 
 * ' should speak ten minutes longer ?' ' It looks 
 to me like the height of folly. I have heard 
 gentlemen here to-day, who can make good 
 speeches, say they would consent to a fifteen 
 minute rule. They might be content to be 
 cut oS, but the Convention might not be 
 satisfied to have them. We should not be 
 too hasty in oiu- deliberations. Conventions 
 which have met heretofore for the simple 
 revision of Constitutions, have had sessions of 
 six months. If it is from the hasty disposition 
 of gentlemen to get home to take care of their 
 crops that they vote for the ten or fifteen 
 minute rule, this Convention might as well 
 adopt the silent rule, and content themselves 
 with merely giving their votes, and then their 
 object would be soon accomplished and they 
 could go home. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I suppose it is the right- of 
 every gentleman to make as long speeches as 
 he desires provided he does not infiinge upon 
 the rights of any one else. We have all duties to 
 perform and while some claim the right to speak, 
 others claim the privile^ of acting. Should 
 I claim the right to make a long speech upon 
 some subject in which I felt interested, some 
 gentleman might feel restive imder it, and be 
 anxious to proceed to business. While it is 
 my privilege to express my ideas, they have 
 rights equal to mine. The people want a 
 Constitution made, and expect us to make it, 
 and I believe that if we make short speeches 
 we shall discharge our duties better, as a gen- 
 eral thing, upon most subjects which arise, 
 than we should by making long speeches. 
 When we have reports fi"om committees on 
 important subjects, we may need more time 
 for discussion, and even in such cases vinless 
 we can get more time by a two-third vote, I 
 say cut the debates short, then. K the Con- 
 Tention is satisfied that more time is needed, 
 10 
 
 they will grant it. Some of the vrisest men 
 this country ever boasted of, were men of few 
 words, and they learned to condense their 
 thoughts and ideas into a small compass. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. It strikes me that it is a 
 bad role that don't work both ways. Some 
 gentlemen who advocate the passage of this 
 rule, were opposed to a resolution which was 
 discussed to-day, on the ground that it cast 
 the reflection upon the United States Marshal, 
 that he would not do his duty. Now, it 
 seems to me it casts a reflection upon this 
 body to suppose they will trespass upon the 
 patience of this House. I do not know why 
 gentlemen come to the conclusion that any 
 individual will speak longer than necessary. 
 It seems to me that when the Convention 
 becomes wearied with long speeches, that will 
 be the proper time to attend to this matter. 
 Are we to suppose that gentlemen will make 
 speeches when nobody desires to hear? 
 When that time comes, then I shall be ready 
 to vote for such a proposition as this. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. It is an old adage, " lock 
 the stable before the horse is stolen." I 
 think it the best course to have the rule 
 brought down to a reasonable time at once. 
 It certainly can do no one any harm. I 
 should rather prefer twenty minutes, but still 
 I am willing to go with my fifiends for fifteen 
 minutes. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I think there is a mis- 
 taken opinion as to the modus operandi of this 
 resolution. Its object is only to save the 
 time of the Convention itself, but I believe it 
 is customary in all deliberative assemblies to 
 conduct their heavy debates in committe of 
 the Whole ; and there this rule vriU have no 
 operation. 
 
 The question was taken on the amendment 
 limiting the time to ten minutes, and it was 
 not agreed to. 
 
 The original motion was then agreed to. 
 
 On motion of Mr. KING, at 12 o'clock 
 and fifteen minutes, the Convention ad- 
 journed until two o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 I The Convention was called to order at 3 
 o'clock, p. M. 
 
 CESSCS OF THE TERRITORY. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I understand that it is im- 
 portant that this Convention should have tht 
 
74 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— MoxNdav, July 20. 
 
 census of this Territory before they adjourn, 
 and in case the United States Marshal should 
 disregard the commands of this Convention 
 and refuse to recognize it as the Constitutional 
 Convention, it will be necessary for the Con- 
 vention to take some other steps to procure 
 an enumeration of the inhabitants. The cen- 
 sus should be upon the files of the Secretary's 
 office, if the Territorial officers have per- 
 formed their duties. If they have done their 
 duty, I think we need not depend upon the 
 United States Marshal or any body else. I 
 oflfer the following resolution : 
 
 " Besolved, That a committee of three be 
 appointed to ascertain wLether the several assess- 
 ors in the Territory have filed with the Secretary 
 of the same, lists of the inhabitants of their 
 respective districts, according to section 10, article 
 9, and chapter 8 of the Revised Statutes ; and if 
 60, to procure a certified copy of such lists for the 
 use of this Convention." 
 
 If the assessors have done their duty, a 
 census of the Territory was taken in June, 
 and the returns are on file in the office of the 
 Secretary of State. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. It seems to me that the res- 
 olution is a little premature. It takes the 
 ground in the first place that the Marshal of 
 the Territory will not do his duty, and that 
 we must as a matter of necessity look to tliis 
 course, in order to find out the population of 
 the Territory. It seems to me that it would 
 be better to wait until we ascertain that we 
 are to have no census taken by the proper 
 authority, and then it will be time enough to 
 resort to other means to obtain the informa- 
 tion. I object to the resolution. 
 
 The resolution giving rise to debate, was 
 laid over under the rules. 
 
 Mr. KING. I ofifer the following resolu- 
 tion: 
 
 "Besolved, That the committee on Elections 
 be instructed to insert a registry clause requiring 
 all legal voters to have their names registered in 
 the county records of the county in which they 
 live; to receive a certificate of registry stating the 
 date, book, and page containing said registry, and 
 without which no vote will be received wlieu chal- 
 lenged — said clerk to be paid by State reve- 
 nue." 
 
 The object of my resolution is simply lb 
 incite inquiry in the minds of members as to 
 the best mode of preventing frauds in elec- 
 tiong. As matters now are, we all know that 
 it is difficult to ascertain a man's right to 
 
 vote where there are so many strangers com- 
 ing and going. There might be an additional 
 provision requiring every man's certificate to 
 be filed in the ward, precinct, or district in 
 which he proposes to vote, or that there be a 
 file of those certificates furnished to the 
 Judges of Election in each precinct. 
 
 The resolution was laid over under the 
 rules. 
 
 ONE DAILY SESSION. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I oifer the following : 
 
 "Besolved, Tliat this Convention hold but one 
 session per day, and that the hour of meeting be 
 9 o'clock, until otherwise ordered." 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Would it not be wise to 
 regulate that matter from day to day as cir- 
 cumstances may require ? I think we had 
 better take no action upon it at the present 
 time. 
 
 The resolution was laid over under the 
 rules. 
 
 ORGANIZATION OF THE CONVENTION. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. If there is no other 
 business before the Convention at this time, 
 I ask unanimous consent to make a brief 
 statement of facts, connected with myself as 
 a member of this Convention, knd the Con- 
 vention itself as a body. (Cries of "leave, 
 leave.") I received a letter this morning from 
 one of my constituents residing in Steele 
 County, stating that a report had been circu- 
 lated in that section of the country-, that the 
 Republican members of this Convention had 
 made an agreement with the Democratic mem- 
 bers, not to attempt to organize until 12 
 o'clock, M., on the 13tli instant ; that the Re- 
 publican members had violated that contract, 
 and had organized at half past 11 o'clock, in 
 the forenoon ; liad taken forcible possession 
 of the Hall of the House of Representatives, 
 and refused to allow the Democratic members 
 their seats in Convention. The question was 
 asked me whether tliat statement was true. 
 
 As it is impossible for me to answer him in 
 such a manner tliat all my constituents may 
 know my views, I desire to give here my 
 understanding of the whole transaction from 
 begining to end. And I wish it distinctly 
 understood by every member of the Conven- 
 tion, that whatever remarks I make, I shall 
 make them upon my own responsibility ; and 
 if they do not meet the ooncurrenco of other 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Mont)ay, July 20. 
 
 gentlemen, I ask that they may be entirely 
 absolved from responsibility. 
 
 I propose to speak, in the first place, of 
 the arrangement which was made between 
 the Republicans and the Democrats as to the 
 time of the organization of this Convention, 
 and the time when the Republicans came into 
 this building, and in what manner, and for 
 what purpose. 
 
 Second : I propose to speak "of the rights of 
 the Secretary of the Territory of Minnesota 
 as such when he undertakes to organize a 
 Constitutional Convention under our Enabling 
 Act, and of his rights as a member of this 
 Convention. 
 
 Third: I propose to speak of the precedents 
 which have come within my knowledge in 
 regard to the right of such an ofBcer to call a 
 body of this kind to order ; and the rights of 
 members holding certificates of election which 
 are fair upon their face, to participate in the 
 temporary organization of such a Convention. 
 
 First : as to the agreement which was made 
 between the Democratic and Republican 
 members of this body. I arrived in this city 
 late on Saturday night of the 11th inst., and 
 ascertained that a caucus had been held by 
 the Republican members who had reached 
 here earher, at which it was resolved that no 
 attempt should be made to organize this Con- 
 vention on their part, until the Democratic 
 members had been consulted and their wishes 
 made known. I was not at that caucus, and 
 as a matter of course, what transpired there 
 is a matter of hearsay with me. I do know, 
 however, that there was a statement to that 
 efiect, which was reduced to writing and 
 signed by certain Republican members of 
 Ms Convention, and handed to certain Dem- 
 ocratic members with the understanding that 
 they should sign and return the same. And 
 I am justified in saying that instead of that 
 instrument being signed and returned, an- 
 other proposition was returned, which is in 
 these words: 
 
 " Gexts : — The Democratic members of the 
 Constitutional Convention now present, will be 
 governed as to time and place of meeting of said 
 Convention by the usual rules governing parlia- 
 mentary bodies in the United States. 
 
 (Signed) M. SHERBURNE, 
 
 C. L. CHASE, 
 W. A. GORMAN. 
 To Messrs. Balcoxbb and others." 
 
 Now, sir, if I understand the " usual" hour 
 of meeting of Constitutional bodies of this 
 kind, it varies in different States ; and when 
 this paper was returned to the Republican 
 members who had signed the first proposition, 
 the idea struck them, and not only struck 
 them, but others who heard that answer read, 
 that it would admit of some littie doubt of 
 construction, and that it was not exactiy in 
 accordance with good faith to say the least of 
 it, to withliold the original docimient and re- 
 turn one in its place which could be construed 
 as circumstances might reqviire. After con- 
 sultation with various RepubUcan members 
 of the Convention who were here, it appeared 
 to be the unanimous conclusion that near the 
 hour of 12 o'clock on the morning of the 13th, 
 the Republican members should come into 
 this Hall or this Capitol, not for the purpose of 
 organizing the Convention, but for the pur- 
 pose of preventing the Democratic members 
 from organizing it without ovur knowledge or 
 concurrence. And, sir, here I wish it dis- 
 tinctly understood, that our sole object for 
 so doing was to prevent our being taken by 
 surprise. 
 
 We believed in guarding well the outposts 
 that the citadel might be safe. 
 
 I do not know the exact hour when other 
 members came in here, but about the hour of 
 one o'clock on that morning I came into this 
 building, and went into the Council Chamber, 
 where I found a considerable nimiber of Re- 
 pubUcan members sitting upon seats, and 
 talking upon various subjects. We remained 
 there (at least some of us) in an unorganized 
 condition until near daylight, when I left the 
 building for the purpose of obtaining my 
 breakfast. 
 
 I know nothing of what took place after 
 until I returned, which was about eight o'clock, 
 A. IT., when I found the door of this Hall 
 open and several Republican members here, in 
 an unorganized condition, some talking about 
 one thing and some another. We then, most 
 of us took our seats, and continued in them 
 vmtil about a quarter before twelve o'clock, m. 
 About that time, a portion of the Democratic 
 members came into the Hall in a body. I 
 will not say how many, for the reason that 
 most of them were strangers to me — ^but as 
 soon as they came in Mr. Chase rose in that 
 desk, rapped upon it, and called the Conven- 
 
Y6 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Mondat, July 20. 
 
 tion to order. About the same time Mr Noktii 
 also stepped into the desk and called the 
 Convention to order ; which one called to order 
 first I will not pretend to say. My judgment 
 is that there were but few seconds differ- 
 ence. What motion was put, I will not pre- 
 tend to say, for the confusion and noise was 
 so great I could not tell, but I heard in an- 
 swer to a certain noise, pr a certain sound 
 which I supposed emanated from the lips of 
 Mr. Chase, a kind of unanimous expression 
 from the Democratic members, in regard to 
 adjournment. As soon as that took place, 
 these Democratic members left the Hall. 
 
 Now, sir, I wish to ask every member 
 within the sound of my voice, if they did not un- 
 derstand there was a solemn agreement made 
 between the Democratic and Republican mem- 
 bers of this Convention, that there was to be 
 no attempt at organization until 12 o'clock, si., 
 which agreement was consummated about 7 
 o'clock on Monday morning ? It is unneces- 
 sary perhaps for the members who were here 
 to prove that there was a contract of this 
 kind, but for the benefit of my constituents 
 at home, I will prove it, and prove it not only 
 by a WTiting signed by their leading men, but 
 by their leading organ of this City. First I 
 will produce the writing, which is in these 
 words : 
 
 July 13, 1857. 
 Besolved, That the Democratic members of the 
 Constitutional Convention in caucus, do hereby 
 affirm the position of the Democratic members last 
 evening, and will concur in the proposition to meet 
 at 12 o'clock, M., this day, the usual hour for the 
 assemblage of parliamentary bodies in the United 
 States. 
 
 (Signed) M. SHERBURNE, Chairman 
 
 C. L. CHASE, Secretary. 
 
 I now propose to introduce another witness, 
 the Pioneer and Democrat, for the purpose of 
 proving conclusively this same fact : 
 
 "Although 12 o'clock, m., on Monday was the time 
 agreed upon on which the Convention should be 
 called to order — " 
 
 Admitting that there was an agreement to 
 that effect, and that the time mentioned in 
 that agreement was twelve o'clock — 
 *' yet the Black Republicans took possession of the 
 Hall of the House of Representatives on Sunday 
 night, fifteen hours prior to the time," &c. 
 
 Now, sir, I have proved conclusively by an 
 instrument of writing under the hands of their 
 leading men, and also by their organ of this 
 
 city, that this Convention should not be or- 
 ganized until 12 o'clock, m., on Monday, the 
 13th instant. 
 
 And now I arraign the Democratic mem- 
 bers, and charge them with being the viola- 
 tors of this agreement, and this charge I will 
 prove, sir. 
 
 There are three ways, Mr. President, in 
 which a man can prove a fact — first, by the 
 introduction of a witness which he himself 
 has brought upon the stand ; second, by wit- 
 nesses which the opposite party have intro- 
 duced ; and third, by their own admission. 
 
 I propose first to adopt the latter course, 
 and show from their own organs that they 
 were its violators and not us. 
 
 My witness is the same paper from which 
 I have already read — the Pioneer and Dem- 
 ocrat. 
 
 In giving a statement of the proceedings 
 of the Convention of that day, it says, " At 
 " quarter to 12 o'clock, A. i/"., Hon. C. L. 
 " Chase, Secretary of the Territory of Minne- 
 " sota, and Mr. Nobth, of Rice County, simul- 
 " taneously entered the Speaker's desk and 
 " called the Convention to order." 
 
 I also call upon every Republican member 
 of this Convention to bear me witness, when I 
 say that about seventeen minutes before twelve 
 o'clock, and before any attempt was made on 
 the part of the Republicans to organize, the 
 Democratic members marched into this Hall 
 in a body, and through Mr. Chase, sought to 
 secure the preliminary organization. Sir, such 
 are the facts; 
 
 I next propose to speak of the right of the 
 Secretary of the Territory, as such, to call 
 this Convention to order. The Organic Act 
 of the Territory of Minnesota, which created 
 the office of Secretary, has defined its powers 
 and prescribed its duties. The thu-d section 
 of the Organic Act, says : 
 
 " Andhe it further enacted, That there shall be a 
 Secretary of said Territory, who shall reside there- 
 in, and hold his office for four years unless sooner 
 removed by the President of the United States ; 
 and he shall record and preserve all the laws and 
 proceedings of the Legislative Assembly herein- 
 after constituted, and all the acts and proceedings 
 of the Governor in hi^ Executive department ; he 
 shall transmit one copy of the laws and one copy 
 of the Executive proceedings, on or before the first 
 day of December in each year, to the President of 
 the United States, and at the same time two copies 
 of the laws to the Speaker of the House of Repre- 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 20. 
 
 sentativesandthe President of the Senate for the j Mr upon its face, had he any right to call 
 
 use of Congress. And in case of the death, re- j jjjjg Conyention to order. 
 
 moval or necessary absence of the Governor from A^ain, we find that almost invariably where 
 
 the Territory the Secretary shall be and he is here- j ^^ Secretary of a Territory has call^ such 
 
 by authorized and required to execute andperform | ^ ^^ ^^ ^,d,, j^ ^33 bee„ by ^tue of some 
 
 all the powers and duties of the Governor during 
 such vacancy or necessary absence or until another 
 Governor shall be duly appointed to fill such yut i 
 cancy. I 
 
 In that section, we find his duties, his | 
 rights and his powers clearly and distinctly j 
 marked out ; but among those powers noth- 
 ing can be found ^ving him authority to or- 
 ganize or call to order a Constitutional Con- i 
 vention. Neither can any such power or j 
 authority be found in any law which has been 
 passed by Congress or the Territorial Legis- ! 
 lature of Minnesota. Hence, I say that the ] 
 Secretary of the Territory, as such, has | 
 no more power, has no more right, has no i 
 more authority to call such a Convention to ■ 
 order, than any individual who may happen ; 
 to be passing along the street. This, sir, in 1 
 my judgment would settle everytbing con- ! 
 nected with the organization of this Conven- 
 tion. But we imderstand it is claimed that \ 
 he had not only the right to call the Conven- ! 
 tion to order as Secretary of the Territory, 
 but as a member of this Convention. 
 
 Sir, I recognize most fiilly the right of eve- 
 ry person who has been duly elected, and 
 who has a certificate of his election as a mem- 
 ber, to call this body to order. The right of 
 such a member must be recognized. But, 
 sir, had he any evidence to show that he was 
 a member of this Convention ? Not any at 
 all, sir. He had no certificate of election, and 
 upon .this point the rules and r^ulations 
 of parliamentary practice are well settled. 
 The best authority which I know upon this 
 subject is Cushing's Law and Practice of 
 Legislative Assemblies, which is recognized 
 as the highest parliamentary authority in this 
 country. Upon this subject he says : 
 
 "These principles are as follows: First, that 
 every person duly returned iS a member, whether 
 legally elected or not, until his election is set aside. 
 Second, that no person who is not duly retwmedis 
 a member, even though legally elected, until his 
 election is established." 
 
 Mr. Chase at that time, therefore, could 
 have no claim as a member. And I have 
 shown that neither as Secretary of the Terri- 
 tory, nor as an individual who comes here 
 without any certificate as member, which is 
 
 law which authorized returns to be made to 
 his office, and he being the keeper or custodi- 
 an of these returns, has been suffered to per- 
 form that duty. But vmder Enabling Acts 
 Hke ours, in all the Territories, as far as my 
 knowledge extends, the tmiversal practice and 
 custom has been for some member who has a 
 certificate which is fair upon its fece, to call 
 the Convention to order. So that I say even 
 upon the groimd of precedoit he bad no such 
 anthority. 
 
 Now, sir, if I understand the position which 
 we at present occupy, it is substantially this : 
 We have met here as delegates, duly elected, 
 with certificates in our possession which are 
 fiiir upon their face. We met at the time ap- 
 pointed by law. We made an agreement 
 with our Democratic brethren, which agree- 
 ment was violated by them in the first in- 
 stance. If we organized before twelve o'clock 
 it was because we were compelled so to do in^^ 
 order to preserve our rights — they having vio- 
 lated the agreement in the first instance by an 
 attempt to organize, of course we had no 
 other alternative left. 
 
 Then, I say, that as we stand here before 
 the people of Minnesota, we stand justified 
 upon the ground that we have done everything 
 which the terms of our agreement required — 
 have done everything that honor dictated. 
 But, sir, it is insisted that we should not 
 have allowed certain gentlemen from Henne- 
 pin coimty their seats. 
 
 I tell you, Mr. Pbestoent, we had no alter- 
 native in this matter— we had no ri^t to say 
 I that they should not take their seats in the 
 : first instance and participate in our proceed- 
 j ings up to such time as their seats might be 
 ! contested. They had certificates of election, 
 and we had no right to go behind those cer- 
 tificates, when no one contested their seats 
 and pronounce their election fraudulent and 
 void, simply because some newspaper said 
 they were. If it were true that these gentle- 
 men were not legally and properly elected, 
 why not appear before the Convention at the 
 proper time, and in the proper manner, and 
 make it appear? No attempt of this kind 
 
78 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— TcESii ay, July 21. 
 
 Vv'as made, and hence we had no right to say 
 to these gentlemen, "You shall not partici- 
 "pate with us in our proceedings for the rea- 
 " son that your certificates of election were 
 " wrongfully obtained, and the reason why we 
 " know it is because the Pioneer and Demo- 
 " crat says so." 
 
 Mr. Pkesidext, who ever heard of news- 
 paper rumor being received in courts of jus- 
 tice, or conventional bodies in preference to 
 the official statements of properly constituted 
 officers acting under the sanctions and solem- 
 nities of an oath ? The idea is too preposter- 
 ous to be thought of. 
 
 Sir, the doctrine of allowing the majority 
 to rule is abandoned, and the war cry now 
 raised is "rule or ruin." 
 
 If, therefore, we are compelled to go before 
 the people of Minnesota upon this issue, let 
 us go before them stating the facts as they 
 occurred. If we are charged with being rev- 
 olutionists, if we are charged with being 
 fanatics, let us have in our hands a clear 
 statement of these truths. I understand to a 
 certain extent, the Republican sentiment of 
 this Territory, and I know that sentiment 
 demands and wants nothing more than what 
 is right and what is just. I know that the 
 Republicans of this Territory demand of 
 others nothing that is not founded upon prin- 
 ciples of honor and justice. I know that the 
 members of this body have demanded noth- 
 ing that was not justly, legally and honorably 
 due them. Mr. Peesident, no man feels more 
 sensitive than I do, when charged with being 
 violators of the Constitution, and with having 
 no regard for the federal compact which should 
 bind us all together. For one, I say that I 
 stand here to day, having taken the oath to 
 support that instrument, and I intend to car- 
 ry out its provisions so far as lies within my 
 power. Sir, the Republican party acknowl- 
 edge fealty — first, to the God of IJeaven, and 
 second, to the Federal Constitution; and I 
 hurl back the charge which has been made 
 against us as Republicans, of desiring to 
 trample under foot the provisions of that 
 sacred instrument, as totally, knowingly, and 
 wickedly false. 
 
 Sir, I love the Union of the American 
 States; Ilovc the Federal Constitution. To 
 that instrument wc owe all that we are — all 
 that we hope to be. Under that instrument 
 
 we have increased from four millions of self- 
 sacrificing, patriotic inhabitants, to thirty mil- 
 lions of proud and prosperous people. Under 
 thatjinstrument we have extended our domains 
 from the Mississippi to the Rocky Mountains, 
 and from the Rocky Mountains to the Pacific 
 Ocean. Under that instrument we have 
 contended successfully with the British Lion 
 and sent him howling across the waters of the 
 sea. And may God grant that when the rays 
 of the last setting sun shall sink back into 
 eternal night, no longer to gladden the face of 
 man, its crimson hue may be reflected back 
 upon those extended Heavens that still cover 
 the United States of America. 
 
 LIST OF STANDING COMMITTEES. \ 
 
 On motion of Mr. GALBRAITH— 
 Ordered, That the committee on Printing be 
 
 instructed to procure the printing of 100 copies of 
 
 the list of Standing Committees. 
 
 And then on motion of Mr. KING, at three 
 o'clock and fifteen minutes, the Convention 
 adjourned. 
 
 EIGHTH DAY. 
 
 Tuesday, Juiy 21st, 1857. 
 The Convention met at 9 o'clock, a. m. 
 The Journal of yesterday was read and 
 approved. 
 
 PBEAMBLE AND BILL OF EIGHTS. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL, from the committee 
 on the Preamble and Bill of Rights, made the 
 following report, which was read a first and 
 second time, viz : 
 
 Preamble. We the people of the State of Min- 
 nesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious 
 liberty and desu-ing to perpetuate its blessings 
 and secure the same to ourselves and our posterity, 
 do ordain and establish this Constitution : 
 
 ARTICLE I — DECLARATION OF RIGHTS. 
 
 Section 1. All men are born equally free and 
 independent, and have certain inherent rights; 
 among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of 
 happiness. To secufe these rights, governments 
 are instituted among men deriving their just pow- 
 ers from the consent of the governed. 
 
 Sec. 2. There shall be neither slavery nor in- 
 voluntary servitude in this State except for tho 
 punishment of crime, whereof the party shall haVo 
 been duly convicted. 
 
 Sec. 3. Fvery one may freely speak, write and 
 publish his sentiments on all subjects, being respon- 
 sible for tho abuse of such right ; and no laws shall 
 bo passed to restrain or abridge tho liberty of 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, July 21. 
 
 Y9 
 
 speech or of the press. In all criminal prosecu- 
 tions or indictments for libel, the truth may be 
 given in evidence : and if it shall appear to the jury 
 that the matter charged as libelous be true, and 
 was published with good motives and for justifi- 
 able ends, the party shall be acquitted ; and the 
 jury shall have the right to determine the law and 
 the fact. 
 
 Sec. 4. The right of the people peaceably to 
 assemble to consult for the common good and to 
 petiiion the government or any department thereof 
 shall never be abridged. 
 
 Sec. 5. The right of trial by jury shall remain 
 inviolate ; and shall extend to all cases at law with- 
 out regard to the amount in controversy ; but a 
 jury trial may be waived by the parties in all cases 
 in the manner prescribed by law. 
 
 Sec. 6. Excessive bail shall not be required ; 
 nor shall excessive fines be imposed ; nor shall 
 cruel and unusual punishments be inflicted. 
 
 Sec. T. In all criminal prosecutions the accused 
 shall enjoy the right to be heard by himself and 
 counsel ; to demand the nature and cause of the 
 accusation against him ; to meet the witness face 
 to face ; to have compulsory process to compel the 
 attendance of witnesses in his behalf; and in pros- 
 ecutions by indictment or information, to a speedy 
 public trial by an impartial jury of the county or 
 district, wherein the ofience shall have been com- 
 mitted, which county or district shall have been 
 previously ascertained by law. 
 
 Sec. 8. Xo person shall be held to answer for 
 a criminal offence unless on the presentment or 
 indictment of a grand jury, except in cases of im- 
 peachment or in cases cognizable by Justices of 
 the Peace, or arising in the Army or Navy, or in 
 the militia when in actual service in time of 
 war or public danger ; and no person for the same 
 offence shall be put twice in jeopardy of punish- 
 ment nor shall be compelled in^any criminal case 
 to be a witness against himself. All persons shall, 
 before conviction be bailable by sufficient sureties, 
 except for capital offences when the proof is evi. 
 dent or the presumption great ; and the privilege 
 of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be sus- 
 pended unless when in case of rebellion or inva- 
 sion, the public safety may require. 
 
 Sbc. 9. Every person is entitled to a certain 
 remedy in the laws for all injiu-iesor wrongs which 
 he may receive in his person, property or charac- 
 ter ; he ought to obtain justice freely and without 
 being obliged to piuxhase it ; completely and with- 
 out denial, promptly and without delay, conform- 
 ably to the laws. 
 
 Sec. 10. Treason against the State shall con- 
 sist only in levying war against the same or in 
 adhering to its enemies, giving them aid and com- 
 fort. Xo person shall be convicted of treason 
 unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the 
 same overt act, or on confession in open court. 
 
 Sec. 11. The right of the people to be secure 
 in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against 
 
 unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be 
 violated, and no warrant shall issue but upon 
 probable cause supported by oath or afiirmation, 
 and particularly describing the place to be searched 
 and the person cr things to be seized. 
 
 Skc. 12. Xo bill of attainder, ex-post facto law, 
 nor any law impairing the obligation of contracts 
 shall ever be past ; and no conviction shall work 
 corruption of blood or forfeiture of estate. 
 
 Sbc. 13. X^o private property shall be t^en for 
 public use without just compensation therefor. 
 
 Sec. 14. All lands within the Sate are declared 
 to be allodial, and feudal tenures are prohibited. 
 Leases and grants of agricultural land for a longer 
 term than fifteen years, in which rent or service of 
 any kind shall be reserved, and all fines and like 
 restraints upon alienation reserved in any grant 
 of land hereafter made, are declared to be void. 
 
 Skc. 15. Xo distinction shall ever be made by 
 law between resident aliens and citizens in refer- 
 ence to the possession, enjoyment or descent of 
 property. 
 
 Sec. 16. Xo person shall be imprisoned for 
 debt arising out of or founded upon any contract 
 express or implied. 
 
 Sec. 17. The right of the debtor to enjoy the 
 necessary comforts of life shall be recognized by 
 wholesome laws, exempting a reasonable amount 
 of property from seizure or sale for the payment 
 of any debt or liability hereafter contracted. 
 
 Skc. 18. The right of every man to worship 
 God according to the dictates of his own conscience 
 shall never be infringed ; nor shall any man be 
 compelled to attend, erect or support any place of 
 worship, or to maintain any ministry against his 
 consent. X'or shall any control of, or interference 
 with the rights of conscience be permitted, or any 
 preference be given by law to any religious estab- 
 lishment or mode of worship. Xor shall any 
 money be drawn from the Treasury for the benefit 
 of religious societies, or religious or theological 
 seminaries. 
 
 Sec. 19. Xo religious test or amount of prop- 
 erty shall ever be required as a qualification for 
 any office of public trust under the State. Xo re- 
 ligious test or amount of property shall ever be 
 required as a qualification of any voter at any elec- 
 tion in this State ; nor shall any person be rendered 
 incompetent to give evidence in any court of law 
 or equity in consequence of his opinion upon the 
 subject of religion. 
 
 Skc. 20. The military shall be in strict subor- 
 dination to the civil power. 
 
 Sbc. 21. Writs of error shall never be pro- 
 hibited by law. 
 
 Sec. 22. Xo lottery shall ever be authorized by 
 this State, and the buying and selling of lottery 
 tickets is hereby prohibited. 
 
 Sec. 2-3. Every law enacted by the Legislature 
 shall embrace but one object, and that shall be 
 expressed in the title. 
 
 Sec. 24. Any citizen of this State who shall. 
 
80 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, July 21. 
 
 after the adoption of this Constitution, fight a 
 duel with deadly weapons, or send or accept a 
 challenge to fight a duel with deadly weapons, 
 either within this State or out of it, or who shall 
 act as second, or knowingly aid or assist in any 
 manner those thus oflfending, shall be deprived of 
 holding any office of profit or trust under this 
 State. 
 
 Sec. 25. The criminal code shall be founded on 
 principles of reformation, and not of vindictive 
 justice. 
 
 Sec. 26. The people shall have the right to 
 bear arms in defence of themselves and State. 
 
 Sec. 27. The blessings of a free government 
 can only be maintained by a firm adherence to 
 justice, moderation, temperance, frugality and 
 virtue, and by a frequent recurrence to fundamen- 
 tal principles. 
 
 All of which is respectfully submitted. 
 
 AMOS COGGSWELL. 
 GEO. WATSON. 
 T. D. SMITH. 
 B. E. MESSER. 
 
 PRINTING OF REPORTS. 
 
 The PRESIDENT suggested that no order 
 had yet been made in reference to printing 
 the reports of the various standing com- 
 mittees. 
 
 Mr. ALDRIOH. I do not know as it will 
 be necessary to print every report of the com- 
 mittees, but it is important that the report 
 just made should be. I move that the report 
 be laid on the table, and that one hundred 
 copies be printed for the use of the Con- 
 vention. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS moved to substitute one 
 hundred and fifty copies. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I accept the amendment. 
 My friend, [Mr. Morgan], suggests two hun- 
 dred copies so that our friends at the other 
 end of the capitol may have the benefit of 
 them, if they desire. 
 
 Mr, HAYDEN. I move to amend so as to 
 require that two hundred copies of each re- 
 port of the standing committees be printed. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH accepted the amendment. 
 
 The resolution, as thus modified, was agreed 
 to. 
 
 considbeation of pending resolutions. 
 
 Under the order of business of the day the 
 following resolutions were taken from the 
 table for consideration : 
 
 The resolution offered by Mr. PERKINS 
 yesterday for the appointment of a committee 
 to ascertain whether the several assessors of 
 the State have filed with the Secretary of the 
 
 Territory, lists of the inhabitents of their 
 several districts, &c. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I hope that the resolution 
 will pass, as I desire this Convention to neg- 
 lect no means of bringing before it an authen- 
 tic census of the Territory. The Marshal, 
 Mr. Gere, has informed members that he has 
 received no instructions whatever from the 
 Secretary of the Interior, and that he can 
 give no information as to the time when he 
 can have the census taken. If the assessors 
 of the whole Territory have performed their 
 duties, as the assessors of the southern por- 
 tion have, there was a census placed on the 
 files of the Secretary's office by the first 
 Monday of July. I see no harm, at least, to 
 result from the appointment of this committee 
 to ascertain the fact. 
 
 Mr. DICKERSON. I think that the cen- 
 sus taken by the assessors is not such as is 
 required for our use. That census merely 
 specifies the number of each family, male and 
 female, and the number of persons subject to 
 military duty. We need sometliing more 
 than that for our purposes. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I think this resolution un- 
 necessary. We have a standing committee 
 on " Schedules," and it is the duty of that 
 committee, as I understand it, to make inqui- 
 ries to ascertain such facts as may enable 
 them to form a correct basis of representation. 
 If it should be necessary to have a resolution 
 of this body to enable them to procure from 
 the Secretary of State this information, the 
 resolution should emanate from that commit- 
 tee. I dislike very much the practice of 
 sending out committees of this body for vari- 
 ous purposes, unless it is absolutely necessary 
 to do so. It is in the power of any iiu'iiibcr, 
 and it is the right of every individual, to ob- 
 tain from the Secretary's office, a copy of 
 any paper which exists there. Until that 
 privilege is refused, we ought not to act as 
 though we thought it necessary to appoint a 
 committee to oblaiii tliat wliich every one has 
 a right to have. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I move that the resolution 
 be laid on the table. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the resolu- 
 tion was laid on the table. 
 
 The next resolution tjikcn up, was that 
 offered by Mr. KING yesterday, instructing 
 the committee on elections to insert a registry 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, Jclt 21. 
 
 81 
 
 clause in the Constitution. The resolution 
 was read. 
 
 Mr. COLBrRN. I move to amend that 
 
 resolution by striking out the word " insert,'' 
 and insert in lieu thereof the words, " enquire 
 into the expediency of inserting." 
 
 Mr. KING accepted the amendment. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. It seems to me that ei- 
 ther the gentleman who offered that resolu- 
 tion or myself has a misconception as to the 
 duties of the committee on elections and cre- 
 dentials. That commitee as I understand, is 
 simply a committee on the election and cre- 
 dentials of members of this Convention. If 
 so, it is not the appropriate committee to 
 which to refer the subject matter of the reso- 
 lution. I therefore move that the resolution 
 and the subject matter thereof be referred to 
 the committee on the Elective Franchise. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I am opposed to this, as I 
 shall be to all movements of this sort. There 
 is a standing committee now appointed whose 
 duty it is to examine this very matter. This 
 resolution anticipates their actions, and seeks 
 to instruct them in regard to that which it is 
 th&r duty to investigate and report upon to 
 this Convention. I know that nothing dis- 
 courteous towards that committee is intended 
 by the mover of the resolution, because he 
 would not intentionally be discourteous to- 
 wards anybody, yet it savors of liscourtesy 
 to that committee. We should leave the 
 matter alone until we see whether the com- 
 mittee take action upon it. I shaU therefore 
 oppose the resolution, and oppose the refer- 
 ence of it 
 
 On motion of Mr. HARDING, the resolu- 
 tion was laid upon the table. 
 
 The next business taken from the Speaker's 
 table, was the following resolution offered by 
 Mr. COLBURN yesterday. 
 
 "Rtisoltid, That this Convention hold one session 
 per day, and that nine o'clock be the hour of meet- 
 ing until otherwise ordered." 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. As some objection was 
 made yesterday to this resolution, I will 
 simply state that my object was that members 
 might understand definitely what were to be 
 our regulations as to the time and length of 
 our sessions. Now that the standing com- 
 mittees are appointed, they will require a 
 portion of the day to attend to their duties, 
 as such, and if it shall be determined that 
 
 11 
 
 we will have but one session per day, and that 
 at nine o'clock, the committees will know what 
 time they can have to devote to their business. 
 I think that will be better than it would be 
 to adjourn from day to day, as we might 
 think circumstances required. 
 The resolution was adopted. 
 
 PAPERS FOB OFFICEKS OP THE COXTESTIOS. 
 
 Mr. WILSON by vmanimous consent, intro- 
 duced the following resolution, which was 
 read, considered and agreed to: 
 
 " Resolved, That the officers of the Convention 
 be entitled to receive newspapers to the same num- 
 ber and under the same rule as members of the 
 ConTention." 
 
 RECOXSrOEBATIOS. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move to reconsider the 
 vote by which the resolution, offered by Mr. 
 McKcxE a day or two since in reference to 
 the proviso in the fifth section of the act of 
 Congress, was referred to the committee on 
 Miscellaneous Provisions. I make the mo- 
 tion so as to have the resolution referred to 
 the committee on Public Property and Ex- 
 penditures. 
 
 The motion to reconsider prevailed, and then 
 the resolution was then referred to the commit- 
 tee on Pubhc Property and Expenditiu^s. 
 
 BOOKS FOB MEMBERS 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I wish to submit a proposition 
 to instruct the Secretary of the Convention 
 tb procure for each member a copy of the 
 Constitution of the United States. I feel the 
 want of it very much myself, and upon con- 
 sideration \vith others, I find they entertain 
 the same view I do upon the subject I make 
 the motion. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. That proposition stands 
 upon the same basis as the one furnishing pa- 
 pers to the members of the Convention, and 
 as I opposed that, I shall oppose this, and I 
 do hope there wnU be found no member voting 
 for any resolution of this sort If we pro- 
 cure a copy of the Constitution for members, 
 why should we not also procure other books 
 of which they stand in need ; why not pro- 
 cure a copy of Webster's Dictionary, which 
 we need just as much in our labors here, as 
 we do the Constitution. And I have nodoubt 
 some would need Murray's old Grammar — 
 for in my opinion that is the best thing of the 
 kind out yet The whole thing is radically 
 wrong. The people did not send us here to 
 
82 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, Jult 23. 
 
 buy books at their expense. They supposed 
 we Avould procure them for ourselves if we 
 . needed them. I need indeed a library to con- 
 sult, worth hundreds of dollars, and shall I 
 procure that at the expense of the people of 
 the Territory ? I hope we shall not have a 
 vote here that will show any gi-eat minority 
 even in favor of any such thing. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I have had occasion to 
 make some inquiries in regard to procuring 
 that book here at this time, and I ascertained 
 this morning that an individual sent for some 
 copies about a week ago, and that it would be 
 two weeks yet before they would arrive. If 
 we now instruct the Secretary to procure 
 copies for us, they could not be obtained in 
 time for our use. 
 
 The question was put on the motion, and 
 it was decided in the negative. 
 
 On motion of :Mr. NORTH, (at ten o'clock 
 and forty-five minutes) the Convention ad- 
 journed. 
 
 NINTH DAY. 
 
 Wednesday, July 22d, 1857. 
 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. m. 
 
 Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. E. D. Nbill. 
 
 A quorum being present, the Journal of 
 yesterday was read and approved. . 
 
 stationery fob members. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH from the committee on 
 Supplies and Expenditures, reported that the 
 committee had made arrangements with Mr. 
 VoN Hamm to furnish the stationery ordered 
 by this Convention — that is five dollars worth 
 to each member, and such quantity as the 
 Secretary and Reporter shall require. 
 
 ORGANIZATION OF REPRESENTATIVE BODIES. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM offered the following resolu- 
 tion, which giving rise to debate, was laid 
 over under the rules, viz : 
 
 "Resolved, That a committee of five be ap- 
 pointed, of which the Chairman of the Convention 
 be ex^offido Chohr man, and the remaining members 
 to be chosen by ballot, whose duty it shall be 
 to report to this Convention the proper measures 
 for obviating, in the assembling of any future 
 Convention, the difficulties which have occurred 
 in the organization of this, — who shall indicate 
 proper means by which the organization shall be 
 «firccted, and the manner in which the credentials 
 
 shall be awthenticated. It shall also be their duty 
 to make similar provisions with regard to all rep- 
 resentative bodies so as to secure their organi- 
 zation in a manner as free as possible from all 
 party bias." 
 
 PRINTER TO THE CONVENTION. 
 
 On motion of Mr. GALBRAITH— 
 
 "Ord(-red, That the election of Printer to this 
 Convention be made the special order for to-day 
 at 10 o'clock." 
 
 CALL OF THE CONVENTION. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH, at nine o'clock and 
 fifty-five minutes, moved that there be a call 
 of the Convention. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and -the roll be- 
 ing called, Messrs. Foster, Hall, Mills, Mur- 
 phy, Perkins, Putnam, Thompson, Walker, 
 and Sheldon, failed to answer to their names. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN moved that all further pro- 
 ceedings under the call be dispensed with. 
 
 The motion was lost and the Sergeant-at- 
 Arms was directed to bring in the absentees. 
 After an interval of thirty minutes — 
 
 Mr. STANNARD moved that the vote by 
 which the Convention refused to dispense 
 with all further proceedings under the call, be 
 reconsidered. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and then all fur- 
 ther proceedings under the call were dispen- 
 sed with. 
 
 Pending the call Mr. SECOMBE stated 
 that Mr. Walker was sick and unable to be 
 in attendance upon the Convention to-day. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD, at ten o'clock and 
 thirty minutes, moved that the Convention 
 adjourn, which motion was not agreed to. 
 
 After a few minutes, during which time no 
 business was transacted — 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH moved that there be a 
 call of the House : which motion was agreed 
 to. 
 
 The roll being called, Messrs. Foster, 
 Murphy, Perkins, Putnam, Thompson, Walk- 
 er, and Sheldon, failed to answer to their 
 names. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD moved that all further 
 proceedings under the call be dispensed with, 
 which motion was not agi'eed to. 
 
 The Scrgeant-at-Arms was directed ta bring 
 in the absentees. 
 
 • After a few nrinutes, during 'which time 
 several absent members appeared — 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH moved, at eleven o'clock, 
 to reconsider the vote by which the Convea- 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, Jcly 22. 
 
 83 
 
 tion refused to suspend further proceedings 
 under the call. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and then all 
 further proceedings under the call were dis- 
 pensed with. 
 
 EtECTIOX OF PR1>-TER. 
 
 On motion of Mr. GALBRAITH the Con- 
 vention proceeded to the election of a Printer 
 to the Convention, and the roU being called, 
 there were 55 votes, all of wliich were cast 
 for Messrs. Owess & Moore of St. Paul; 
 whereupon they were declared duly elected 
 printers to the Convention. 
 
 ORGASIZATIOS OF EXECUTIVE DEPARTJIEXT. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH, from the committtee on 
 the Executive Department, made the follow- 
 ing report which was read a first and second 
 time and laid upon the table to be printed, 
 viz: 
 
 Sectiox 1. The executive power shall be vested 
 in a Governor who shall hold his otlice for two 
 years. A Lieutenant-Governor shall be elected at 
 the same time, and for the same term. 
 
 Sec. 2. Xo person except a citizen of the Uni- 
 ted States, shall be eligible to the office of Gover- 
 nor, nor shall any person be eligible to that office 
 who has not attained the age of thirty years, and 
 who shall not have been one year next preceding 
 his election, a resident within the State, or resi- 
 dent at the time of the adoption of this Constitu- 
 tion. 
 
 Sec. 3. The Governor and Lieutenant Gover- 
 nor shall be elected by the qualified voters of the 
 State at the times and places of choosing members 
 of the Legislature. The persons respectively hav- 
 ing the highest number of votes for Governor and 
 Lietenant-Governor, shall be elected ; but in case 
 two or more shall have an equal and the highest 
 number of votes for Governor or Lieutenant-Gov- 
 ernor, the two Houses of the Legislature at its 
 next annual session, shall forthwith, by joint bal- 
 lot; choose one of the said persons so having an 
 equal and the highest number of votes for Gover- 
 nor or Lieutenant-Governor. 
 
 Sec. 4. The Governor shall be Commander-in- 
 Chief of the military and naval forces of the State. 
 He shall have power to convene the Legislature on 
 extraordinary occasions ; and in case of invasion or 
 danger from the prevalence of contagious disease 
 at the seat of Government, he may convene them 
 at any other suitable place within the State. He 
 shall communicate by message to the Legislature 
 at every session the condition of the State, and 
 recommend such matters to them as he shall judge 
 expedient. He shall transact all necessary business 
 with the officers of Government, civil and military. 
 He shall expedite all such measures as may be 
 resolved upon by the Legislature, and shall take 
 
 care that the laws are faithfully executed. He 
 shall at stated times receive for his services a 
 compensation to be established by law, which shall 
 neither be increased nor diminished after his elec- 
 tion and during his continuance in office. 
 
 Sec. 5. The Governor shall have power to 
 grant reprieves, commutations and pardons after 
 conviction, for all offences, except treason and 
 cases of impeachmentL upon such conditions, and 
 with such restrictions and limitations as he may 
 think proper, subject to such regulations as may 
 be provided by law relative to the manner of ap- 
 plying for pardons. Upon conviction for treason, 
 he shall have power to suspend the execution of 
 the sentence until the case shall be reported to the 
 Legislature at its next meeting, when the Legis- 
 lature shall either pardon or commute the sen- 
 tence, direct the execution of the sentence, or 
 grant a further reprieve. He shall annually com- 
 municate to the Legislature each ca.se of reprieve, 
 commutation or pardon granted ; stating the name 
 of the convict, the crime of which he was convic- 
 ted, the sentence and its date, and the dates of the 
 commutation, pardon or reprieve, with his rea- 
 son for granting the same. 
 
 Sec. 6. In case of the impeachment of the Gov- 
 ernor, or his removal from office, death, inability 
 to discharge the powers and duties of the said of- 
 fice, resignation or absence from the State, the 
 powers and duties of the ofiice shall devolve upon 
 the Lieutenant-Governor for the residue of the 
 term, or until the disability shall cease. But when 
 the Governor shall, with the consent of the Legis- 
 lature, be out of the State in time of War, at the 
 head of a military force thereof, he shall continue 
 Commander-in-Chief of all the military force of 
 the State. 
 
 Sec 7. The Lieutenant-Governor shall possess 
 the same qualifications of eligibiUty for ofiice as the 
 Governor. He shall be President of the Senate, but 
 shall only have a casting vote therein. If during 
 a vacancy of the office of Governor, the Lieuten- 
 ant-Governor shall be impeached, displaced, re- 
 sign, die, or become incapable of performing the 
 duties of his office, or be absent from the State, 
 the President of the Senate shall act as Governor 
 until the vacancy be filled, or the disability shall 
 cease. 
 
 Sec S. The Lieutenant-Governor shall, while 
 acting as such, receive a compensation which shall 
 be fixed by law, and which shall not be increased 
 or diminished during his continuance in office. 
 
 Sec. 9. Every bill which shall have passed the 
 Senate and the House of Representatives, shall, 
 before it becomes a law, be presented to the Gov- 
 ernor ; if he approve, he shall sign it ; but if not, 
 he shall return it with his objections to that House 
 in which it shall have originated, who shall enter 
 the objections at large on their journal, and pro- 
 ceed to reconsider it. If after such reconsidera- 
 tion, two thirds of the members present shall 
 agree to pass the bill, it shall be sent, together 
 
84 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, Jult 23. 
 
 with the objections, to the other House, by which 
 it shall likewise be considered, and if approved 
 by two-thirds of all the members present, it shall 
 become a law, notwitlistanding the objections of 
 the Governor. But in all such cases the votes of 
 both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, 
 and the names of the members voting for and 
 against the bill, shall be entered on the journal of 
 each House respectively. If any bill shall not be 
 returned by the Governor within three da\'s (Sun- 
 days excepted) after it shall have been presented 
 to him, the same shall be u law, in like manner as 
 if he had signed it, unless the Legislature shall, 
 by their adjournment, prevent the return ; in 
 which case it shall not be a law. 
 
 And then on motion of Mr. GALBRATTH, 
 (at eleven o'clock and fifteen minutes) the 
 Convention adjourned. 
 
 TENTH DAY. 
 
 Thcbsday, July 23, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. m 
 The Journal of yesterday was read and 
 approved. 
 
 REPORT OF COMMITTEE. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE, from the committee on 
 
 Public Property and Expenditures, made the 
 
 following partial report, which was read a 
 
 first and second time, and laid upon the table 
 
 to be printed, viz : 
 
 The committee on Public Property and Expendi- 
 tures, to whom was referrea a resolution in re- 
 lation to the propositions of Congress contain- 
 ed in the fifth section of the Enabling Act, 
 and the subject matter thereof, have given their 
 consideration to the same, and beg leave to re- 
 port the accompanying dralt. of an article on the 
 said subject ; and ask leave to report at a future 
 time on the other matters properly coming be- 
 fore them. 
 
 PHOPOSITIOXS OF COXGRESS. 
 
 The propositions contained in the fifth section of 
 the Act of Congress, entitled "An Act to author- 
 ise the people of the Territory of Minnesota to 
 form a Constitution and State Government, pre- 
 paratory to their admission into the Union on an 
 equal footing with the original States," and each 
 of the same, are hereby freely accepted, ratified 
 and confirmed : and it is hereby ordained, irrevo- 
 cably without the consent of the United States, 
 that the State of Minnesota shall never interfere 
 with the primary disposal of the soil within the 
 name by the United States, or with any regulations 
 Congress may find necessary for securing the title 
 in said soil to bona fide purchasers thereof; and 
 that no tax shall be imposed on lands belonging to 
 the United States ; and that in no case shall non- 
 resident proprietors be taxed higher than resi- 
 dantf. 
 
 ORGANIZATION OF REPRESENTATIVE BODIES. 
 
 Under the order of business, the resolution 
 offered by Mr. FOLSOM yest rday in refer- 
 ence to the mode of organizing representative 
 bodies, was taken up and reported to the Con- 
 vention. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Will not the subject mat- 
 ter of that resolution come directly and natu- 
 ally before the committee on Amending and 
 Revising the Constitution? I think it will, 
 and that it includes a very great part of their 
 duty. To adopt the resolution would be to 
 take awfiy the duties of a standing committee 
 and give them to a select one. I am opposed 
 to that, and especially as it takes all their 
 duties away. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I agree fully with the 
 gentlemen from Winona. I therefore move 
 that the resolution, and the subject matter 
 thereof, be referred to the committee on 
 Amending and Revising the Constitution. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. In order that the 
 committees may have time to work, I move 
 that the Convention now adjourn. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would inquire if the 
 report of the committee on the Preamble and 
 Bill of Rights has been printed. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The chair is informed 
 that it has been, and will be here in a few 
 minutes. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. It wiU be impossible 
 to act upon it to day, even if it is printed . 
 We shall need time for examining it outside 
 of the Convention, before we proceed to act 
 upon it. I think we had better adjourn. 
 
 The motion to adjourn was not agreed to. 
 
 LEGISLATIVE DEPART.MENT. 
 
 Mr. NORTH, from the committee on the 
 Legislative Department, made the following 
 report, which was read a first and second 
 time and laid upon the table to be printed, viz : 
 The committee on the Legislative Department beg 
 leave to report the following article for incorpo- 
 ration into the Constitution : 
 Sec. 1. The legislative power of this State shall 
 be vested in a Senate and House of Representa- 
 tives, which shall be designated as the Legislature 
 of the Stale of Minnesota. 
 
 Sec. 2. The Senate shall consist of not less than 
 twenty-four, nor more than thirty-two members 
 The House of Representatives shall consist of not 
 less than sixty-four, nor Inore than one hundred 
 members. , 
 
 Sec. 3. In the year one thousand eight hundred 
 •nd sixty-five, and every tenth year thereafter, »■ 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thcrsdat, July 23. 
 
 85 
 
 enumeration of all the inhabitants of this State 
 shall be made ij such manner as shall be directed 
 by law ; and in the year one thousand eight hun- 
 dred and sixtv, and everj- tenth year thereafter, 
 the census taken by the authority of the Govern- 
 ment of the United States, shall be adopted by the 
 Legislature as the enumeration of this State; and 
 at the first regular session of the Legislature, 
 holden after the returns of each census herein pro- 
 vided for are made, the several districts for the 
 election of senators and representatives shall be 
 established and apportioned by law according to 
 the number of inhabitants. 
 
 Sec. 4. The members of the House of Repre- 
 sentatives shall be chosen annually, one from each 
 representative district, on the Tuesday succeeding 
 the first Monday of October, by the qualified elec- 
 tors of the several districts ; such districts to be 
 bounded by county, precincts, town or ward lines, 
 to consist of contiguous territory, and to be in as 
 compact a form as practicable. 
 
 Sec. 5. The senators shall also be chosen by 
 single districts of convenient contiguous territory 
 at the same time the members of the House of 
 Representatives are required to be chosen, and in 
 the same manner, and no representative district 
 shall be divided in the formation of a senate dis- 
 trict. The senate districts shall be numbered m 
 regular series, and the senators chosen by the dis- 
 tricts designated by odd numbers shall go out of 
 office at the expiration of the first year, and the 
 senators chosen by the districts designated by even 
 numbers, shall go out of office at the expiration of 
 the second year ; and thereafter the senators shall 
 be chosen for the term of two years, except that 
 there shall be an entire new election of all the sen- 
 ators at the election next succeeding each new 
 apportionment provided for in the third section of 
 this article. 
 
 Sec. 6. The first session of the Legislature af- 
 ter the adoption of this constitution, and each ses- 
 sion immediately succeeding the return of the 
 census provided for in this article, shall not ex- 
 tend beyond the term of ninety days. No other re- 
 gular session shall extend beyond the term of 
 sixty days, nor any special session beyond the term 
 of forty days. The Legislature shall meet at the 
 seat of government on the first Wednesday in 
 January of each year, and not oftener unless con- 
 vened by the Governor. 
 
 Sec. 7. Xo person shall be eligible to the Legis- 
 lature who shall not be a citizen of the United 
 States, who shall not have resided within the state 
 one year next preceding his election, or who shall 
 not be a qualified elector in the district which he 
 may be chosen to represent. 
 
 Sec. 8. Each House shall be the judge of the 
 elections, returns and qualifications of its own 
 members, and a majority of each shall constitute a 
 quorum to do business, but a smaller number mav 
 adjourn from daj to day, and maj compel the at- 
 
 tendance of absent members in such manner and 
 under such penalties as each House may provide. 
 Sec. y. Each House may determine the rules of 
 its own proceedings, punish for contempt or dis- 
 orderly behavior, and with the concurrence of two 
 thirds of all the members elected, expel a member; 
 but.no member shall be expelled a second time for 
 the s.^me cause. 
 
 Sec. 10. Each House shall choose its own offi- 
 cers, and the Senate shall choose a temporary 
 President when the Lieutenant Governor shall not 
 attend as President, or shall act as Governor. 
 
 Sec. 11. Each House shall keep a Journal of its 
 proceedings, and shall publish the same, except 
 such parts as require secrecy. The doors of each 
 House shall be kept open, except when the public 
 welfare requires secrecy. Neither House shall, 
 without the consent of the other, adjourn for more 
 than three days. 
 
 Sec. 12. Xo member of the Legislature shall, 
 during the term for which he was elected, be ap- 
 pointed or elected to any civil office in the State, 
 which shall have been created, or the emoluments 
 of which shall have been increased during the term 
 for which he was elected. 
 
 Sec. 13. Xo person being a jnember of Con- 
 gress, or holding any military or civU office under 
 the United States, (postmasters receiving a com- 
 pensation of not over five hundred dollars per 
 annum excepted,) shall be elligible to a iseat in the 
 Legislature: and if any person shall, after his 
 election as a member of the Legislature, be elected 
 to Congress, or be appointed to any office, civil or 
 military, under the Government of the United 
 States, (the office of postmaster at a compensation 
 of not over five hundred dollars per annum ex- 
 cepted,) his acceptance thereof shall vacate his 
 seat. 
 
 Sec. 14. Xo member of the Legislature or oth- 
 er State officer shall be interested, either directly 
 or indirectly, in any contract authorized by the 
 Legislature during his term of office. Xor shall 
 the Legislature grant any extra compensation to 
 any public officer, agent, servant or contractor, 
 after the services shall have been rendered or the 
 contract entered into. Xor shall the compensation 
 of any public officer be increased or diminished 
 during his term of office. 
 
 Sec. 15. Members of the Legislature shall in all 
 cases, except treason, felony, and breach of the 
 peace, be privileged from arrest ; nor shall they be 
 subject to any civil process during the session of 
 the Legislature, nor for fifteen days next before 
 the commencement and after the termination of 
 each session. 
 
 Sec. 16. Xo member of the Legislature shall 
 be liable in any civil action or criminal prosecu- 
 tion whatever for words spoken in debate. 
 
 Skc. 17. The Governor shall issue writs of 
 election to fill such vacancies as may occur in 
 either House of the Legislature. 
 
 Sec. 18. The style of the laws of the State 
 
86 
 
 mNNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, July 23. 
 
 shall be, "Be it enacted by the Legislature of the 
 State of Minnesota;" and no law shall be enacted 
 except by bill. 
 
 Sec. 19. Bills may originate in either House of 
 the Legislature, and a bill passed by one House 
 may be amended or rejected by the other ; except 
 that bills for raising revenue shall originate in. the 
 House of Representatives. 
 
 Sec. 20. No private not local oill, which may 
 be passed by the Legislature, shall embrace more 
 than one subject, and that, shall be expressed in 
 the title. 
 
 Sec. 21. No law shall be revised, altered or 
 amended by reference to its title only ; but the act 
 revised, and the section or sections of the act 
 altered or amended shall be re-enacted and pub- 
 lished at length. 
 
 Sec. 22. A majority of all the members elected 
 to each House shall be necessary to pass every bill 
 or joint resolution, and all bills and joint resolu- 
 tions shall be signed by the presiding officers of 
 the respective Houses. 
 
 Sec. 23. Every bill and joint resolution except 
 of adjournment, passed by the Legislature, shall 
 be presented to the Governor before it becomes a 
 law. If he approve he shall sign it ; but if not he 
 shall return it with his objections to the House in 
 which it originated, which shall enter the objec- 
 tions at large upon its Journal, and reconsider it. 
 On such reconsideration, if two thirds of the mem- 
 bers elected agree to pass the bill it shall be sent 
 with the objections to the other House, by which it 
 shall be reconsidered. If approved by two-thirds of 
 the members of that House it shall become a law. In 
 such case the vote of both Houses shall be deter- 
 mined by the yeas and nays, and the names of the 
 members voting for and against the bill shall be 
 entered on the Journals of each House respec- 
 tively. If any bill be not returned by the Gover- 
 nor within three days, (Sundays excepted,) after it 
 has been presented to him, the same shall become 
 a law in like manner as if he had signed it, unless 
 the Legislature by their adjournment prevent its 
 return, in which case it shall not become a law. 
 The Governor may approve, sign and file in the 
 office of the secretary of state within three daj's 
 after the adjournment of the Legislature, any act 
 passed during the last three days of the session 
 and the same shall become a law. 
 
 Sec. 24. The yeas and nays of the members of 
 either House on any question shall at the request of 
 one sixth of those present be entered on the Jour- 
 nal; and any member of either House shall have 
 the Tight to protest and to have his protest with 
 his reasons for dissent entered upon the Journal. 
 
 Sec. 25. Every Statute shall be a public law, 
 unless otherwise declared in the Statute itself. 
 
 Sec. 20. In all elections to be made by the Le- 
 gislature the members thereof shall vote viva voce 
 and their votes shall be entered on the Journal. 
 
 Skc. 27. Each member of the Legislature shall 
 receive for his services three dollars for each day's 
 
 attendance during the session, and ten cents for 
 every mile he shall travel in going to and return- 
 ing from the place of the meeting of the Legisla- 
 ture on the most usual route. 
 
 Sec. 23. The Legislature may confer upon the 
 boards of supervisors or boards of commissioners 
 of the several counties of the State and upon the 
 corporations of towns and cities. such powers of a 
 local, legislative, and administrative character, as 
 they shall from time to time prescribe. 
 
 Sec. 29. The Legislature shall establish but 
 one system of town and county government, 
 which shall be as nearly uniform as practicable. 
 
 Sec. 30. The Legislature shall never author- 
 ize any lottery, nor allow the sale of lotterj' tickets. 
 
 Sec. 31. The Legislature shall not establish a 
 State Paper. Every newspaper in the State which 
 shall publish all the general Laws of a session 
 within forty days of their passage shall be entitled 
 to receive a sum not exceeding fifteen dollars 
 therefor. 
 
 Sec. 32. The Legislature may submit to the 
 people any act for their ratification or rejection, 
 and such act so submitted shall, if approved by a 
 majority of the legal voters at the appointed elec- 
 tion, become a law. 
 
 Sec. 33. The Legislature shall direct by law in 
 what manner and in what courts suits may be 
 brought against the State. 
 
 Sec. 3i. Members of the Legislature and all 
 officers executive and judicial, except such inferior 
 officers as may be by law exempted, shall, before 
 they enter upon the duties of their respective offi- 
 ces, take and subscribe an oath or affirmation to 
 support the Constitution of the United States and 
 the Constitution of the State of Minnesota, and 
 faithfully to discharge the duties of their respec- 
 tive offices to the best of their abilitj-. 
 
 Sec. 35. The Legislature shall determine what 
 persons shall constitute the Militia of the State, 
 and may provide for organizing and disciplining 
 the same in such manner as shall be prescribed by 
 law. 
 
 Sec. 36. The Legislature may contract debts to 
 meet casual deficits or failures in the revenue, but 
 such debts direct or contingent, singly or in the 
 aggregate, shall not at any time exceed five hun- 
 dred thousand dollars; and the moneys arising 
 from loans creating .such debts shall be applied to 
 the purposes for which they were obtained, or to 
 pay such debts ; Provided that the State may con- 
 tract debts to repel invasion, suppress insurrection, 
 or if hostilities are threatened, provide for the 
 public defense. 
 
 Sec. 37. The Legislature shall provide for the 
 speedy publication of all statute laws of a public 
 nature and of such judicial decisions as it may 
 deem expedient. All laws and judicial decisions 
 shall be free for publicalion bj' any person. 
 
 And then on motion of Mr. NORTH, at 
 ten o'clock and 30 minutes, the Convention 
 adjourned. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, July 24. 
 
 sr 
 
 ELE^TENTH DAY. 
 
 Friday, July 24, 1857. 
 The Conrention met at 9 o'clock, a. m. 
 Pmyer by the Chaplain, Rev. E. D. Neill. 
 The Journal of yesterday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 PETITIOX. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR presented the petition of L. 
 H. BoxD and nineteen others, citizens of 
 Dodge County, praying that, in framing that | 
 portion of the Constitution relative to the ; 
 Sabbath, the liberty and rights of conscience ! 
 of the citizens may be secured, ic, which ; 
 was referred to the committee on the Pream- i 
 ble and Bill of Rights. 
 
 KEPORTS OF CCMMITTEES. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN from the committee on 
 Banking and Corporations otlier than Muni- 
 cipal, submitted the following report which 
 was read a first and second time, and laid on 
 the table to be printed, viz : 
 
 Sectiox 1. Corporations for Banking.purposes, 
 with the necessary powers and privileges may be 
 formed under the g-meral laws, but shall not be 
 created by special enactment. 
 
 Sec 2. If a general banking law shall be en- 
 acted, it shall provide for the registry and coun- 
 tersigning, by an oflScer of State, of all bills or 
 paper credit, designed to circulate as money, and 
 require security to the full amount thereof, to be 
 deposited with the State Treasurer, in United 
 States Stocks, or in interest paying stocks of States 
 in good credit and standing, to be rated at ten per 
 cent, below their average value in the city of New 
 York, for the thirty days nextpreceeding their de- 
 posit ; and in case of a depreciation of any portion 
 of such stocks, to the amount of ten per cent, on 
 the dollar, the bank or banks owning said stocks, i 
 shall be required to make up such deficiency by ! 
 depositing additional stocks ; and said law shall i 
 also provide for the recording of the names of all 
 stockholders in such corporations, the amount of 
 stock held by each, the time of transfer, and to 
 whom. ^ 
 
 Sec. 3. Xo law shall be passed sanctioning in 
 any manner, directly or indirectly, the suspension 
 of specie payments, by any corporation issuing 
 bank notes of any description. 
 
 Sec. 4r. The stockholders in every corporation 
 or association for banking purposes, issuing any 
 kind tf paper credits to circulate as money, shall 
 be individually responsible for its debts and lia- 
 bilities of every kind. 
 
 Sec. 5. In all cases of the insolvency of any 
 bank or banking association, the bill-holders there- 
 of, shall be entitled to preference in payment, over 
 ail other creditors of such bank or association. 
 
 Sec 6. Corporations for purposes other than 
 banking may be formed by general laws ; bvit shall 
 not be created by special act, except for municipal 
 purposes, and in cases where in the judgement of 
 the Legislature the object of the corporation can- 
 not be obtained under general laws. All general 
 laws, or special acts passed in pursuance of this 
 section, may be altered from time to time, or re- 
 pealed. 
 
 Skc. 7. Dues from corporations other than 
 banking shall be secured by such individual lia- 
 bility of the corporators, and other means as may 
 be prescribed by law. 
 
 Sec. 8. The State shall not be a stockholder in 
 any banking, or other corporation ; nor shall the 
 credit of the State be given or loaned in aid of any 
 person, association, or corporation. 
 
 Sec 9. The term corporations, as used in this 
 article, shall be construed to include all associa- 
 tions and joint stock companies, having any of the 
 powers or privileges of corporations, not possessed 
 by individuals or partnerships. And all corpora- 
 tions shall have the right to sue, Snd shall be sub- 
 ject to be sued in aU the courts, in like cases as 
 natural persons. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS firom the committee on Pun- 
 ishment of Crimes, made the following report, 
 which was read, a first and second time, and 
 laid on the table to be printed, viz : 
 Report of the committee to whom was referred 
 
 that portion of the Constitution relating to the 
 
 Punishment of Crimes. 
 
 PUXISHMEXT OP CRIMES. 
 
 Skctiox 1. No person shall be held to answer 
 for a capital or infamous crime, unless on a pre- 
 sentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in 
 cases of impeachment, or in cases cognizable by 
 a justice of the peace, or in cases arising in the 
 army or navy, or in the militia, when in actual ser- 
 vice, in the time of war or public danger. The 
 Legislature shall provide by law a suitable and im- 
 partial mode of selecting juries, and their usual 
 number and unanimity, in indictments and con- 
 victions, shall be held indispensable. 
 
 Sec. 2. In all criminal .prosecutions, the party 
 accused shall enjoy the right of a speedy and public 
 trial, by an impartial jury of the State and County 
 wherein the crime shall have been committed, and 
 to be informed of the nature and cause of the ac- 
 cusation ; to be confronted with the witnesses 
 against him ; to have compulsory process for se- 
 curing the attendence of witnesses in his favor, 
 and to have the assistance of counsel for his de- 
 fense. 
 
 Sec 3. Sanguinary laws shall not be passed ; 
 excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive 
 fines imposed; cruel and unusual punishments shall 
 not be inflicted, and all penalties shall be propor- 
 tioned to the nature of the offence. 
 
 Sec 4. All persons, before conviction, shall be 
 bailable, except for capital offences where the 
 proot is evident, or the presumption great. 
 
88 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, July 24. 
 
 Sec. 5. The privilege to the writ of liaheas cor- 
 pus shall in no ciise be suspended in this State un- 
 less when, in ease of rebellion or invasion, the 
 public safety may require it. 
 
 Sec. 6. No per.son arrested or confined in jail 
 shall be treated with cruelty or unnecessary rigor. 
 
 Sec. 7. Treason against this State consists only 
 in levying war against it, adhering to its enemies 
 and giving them aid and comfort. No person shall 
 be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony 
 of two witnesses to the same overt act, or confes- 
 sion in open court. 
 
 Sec. 8. No person shall be subject to corporal 
 punishment iinier military law, except such as are 
 emploj'ed in the army or navy, or in the military 
 when in actual service in time of war or public 
 danger. 
 
 Sec. 9. No person for the same offence shall be 
 twice put in jeopardy of life or limb ; nor shall he 
 be compelled in any criminal case to bear witness 
 against himself. 
 
 Sec. 10. In all criminal cases whatever, the 
 jury shall have a right to determine the law and 
 the facts. 
 
 Sec. 11. The Legislature may authorize trial 
 by jury of a less number than twelve men in the 
 inferior courts of this State. 
 
 Sec. 12. The penal code shall be founded on 
 the principles of reformation, and not of vindic- 
 tive justice. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS, from the committee on 
 Boundaries, made the following report, which 
 was read a first and second time and laid on 
 the table to be printed, viz : 
 
 The committee on Boundaries beg leave to re- 
 port the following Article, and recommend its 
 adoption into the Constitution of the State of 
 Minnesota : 
 
 It is hereby ordained and declared that the State 
 of Minnesota doth consent to and accept of the 
 boundaries prescribed in the Act of Congress en- 
 titled "An Act to enable the people of Minnesota 
 to form a Constitution and State Government pre- 
 paratory to their admission into the Union on an 
 equal footing with the original States. Approved 
 March 3d, 1857." Beginning at the point in the 
 centre of the main channel of the Red River of 
 the North, where the boundary lino between the 
 United States and the British Possessions crosses 
 the same ; thence up the main channel of said riv- 
 er to that of the Bois des Sioux River ; thence 
 up the main channel of said River to Lake 
 Traverse ; thence up the centre of said lake to 
 the southern extremity thereof; thence in a di- 
 rect line to the head of Big Stone Lake ; thence 
 through its centre to its outlet; thence by a 
 due south line to the north line of the State of 
 Iowa ; thence along the northern boundary of said 
 State to the main channel of the Mississippi River ; 
 thence up the main channel of said river, and fol- 
 lowing the boundary line of the State of Wiscon- 
 sin until the same intersecta the St. Louis River ; 
 
 thence down the said river to and through Lake 
 
 Superior on the boundary line of Wise; nsin and 
 
 Michigan, until it intersects the dividing line be- 
 
 ! tween the United States and the British posses- 
 
 T sions ; thence up the Pigeon River, and following 
 
 ' said dividing line to the place of beginning. 
 
 OSCAR F. PERKINS, 
 j SAMUEL W PUTNAM, 
 
 j L. K. STANNARD, 
 
 I SIMEON HARDING. 
 
 ! Mr, McCLURE offered the following reso- 
 i lution, which was read, considered, and agreed 
 ' to, viz : 
 
 Whereas, It has been reported that in the Sev- 
 I enth Council District (which includes Pembina) 
 no election was held for the election of Delegates 
 to this Convention ; and whereas, it is also report- 
 ed that certain persons, some of whom reside in 
 that District, and others in Minneapolis, (without 
 said District,) have obtained certificates of election 
 to this Convention ; therefore, 
 1 Resolved, That a committee of three be appointed 
 by the President of this Convention, whose duty 
 it shall be to procure from the Secretary of this 
 Territory a certified copy of the returns of said 
 election by the Register of Deeds to this office, and 
 that said committee be further empowered to as- 
 certain the fact whether an election was held in 
 said Seventh Council District on the first Monday 
 of June, eighteen hundred and fifty-seven, for the 
 election of delegates to this Convention ; and that 
 they report to this Convention at as early a day as 
 possible. 
 
 The PRESIDENT thereupon appointed as 
 such committee, Messrs. McClure, Foster 
 and Stannard. 
 
 PREAMBLE AND BILL OF RIGHTS. 
 
 On motion of Mr. SECOMBE, the Conven- 
 tion resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole, Mr. Staxnard in the Chair, on the 
 report of the committee to whom was refcrrd 
 that portion of the Constitution relating to 
 the Preamble and Bill of Rights, [ For report 
 see proceedings of the 2 1st of July.] The 
 report was read by clauses, and amendments 
 offered and discussed as follows : 
 
 "Preamble. We the people of the State of 
 Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and reli- 
 gious liberty and desiring to perpetuate its bless- 
 ings and secure the same to ourselves and our 
 posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitu- 
 tion." 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH moved to strike out all 
 between the word "Minnesota" and the word 
 "do." 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I hope that amendment 
 will not be adopted. I like that part of th» 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, Jult 34. 
 
 aa 
 
 preamble. I like that recognition of a higher 
 power, in all our Constitutions, as the source 
 from which our civil rights come. I know it 
 is the modern doctrine that there is no higher 
 law than an assemblage of men who meet to 
 make laws for the people. But I think a 
 moment's reflection will convince any man of 
 the folly of such an idea, and I think, in 
 order to procure a correct idea upon this sub- 
 ject, there should be such a recognition in 
 the preamble of the Constitution itself. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I tliink that verbiage 
 in a Constitution is objectionable, and to stuff 
 it with self-evident truths is of no account 
 whatever. I see in this preamble, evidence of 
 the ancient land marks, — a set of words 
 which have no immediate connection with the 
 Constitution. There is no man here but 
 recognizes a Divine Providence, but why put 
 that in this Constitution ; what has it to do 
 with the Constitution ? We were sent here 
 to frame a Constitution for the people, and let 
 us do that and avoid other matters. It is not 
 to be presumed that we do not recognize an 
 overruling Providence. Hence this clause is 
 unnecessary. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I think that we shoul(% 
 in this preamble, recognize a higher power, 
 and if we refuse to do so, the people we rep- 
 resent will call us to account. I am confi- 
 dent that the people of the Territory recognize 
 a higher power than the law of the land; 
 and the will of God, upon which all just law 
 is based, and his kindness, mercy and good- 
 ness to us, in permitting us to enjoy our civil 
 and religious privileges, should be recog- 
 nized by us in the very commencement of 
 our work. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Sec. 3. Every person may freely speak, write 
 and publish his sentiments on all subjects, being 
 responsible for the abuse of right ; and no laws 
 shall be passed to restrain or abridge the liberty 
 of speech or of the press. In all criminal prose- 
 cutions or indictments for libel the truth may be 
 given in evidence : and if it shall appear to the 
 jury that the matter charged as libelous be true, 
 and was published with good motives and for jus- 
 tifiable ends, the party shall be acquitted j and the 
 jury shall have the right to determine the law and 
 the fact. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move to insert after 
 the word "libel," the words "or slander," 
 and after the word "libelous," the words " or 
 Blanderous." 
 12 
 
 The amendment was adopted. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move that aU of the 
 section after the word "press" be stricken 
 out. To show the object of my amendment 
 I will state that I think the. bill of rights 
 should be a simple statement of rights, and 
 that we should avoid in it everything of a 
 legislative nature. We have a committee 
 upon the Punishment of Crimes, and the lat- 
 ter part of this section embraces a subject 
 which will properly come under the cogni- 
 zance of that committee. It also seems to 
 partake of the nature of legislation rather 
 than of a declaration of rights. The first 
 part of the section is a simple declaration of 
 rights, while the latter part seems to go far- 
 ther than that. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. We should be care- 
 ful in forming a Constitution to form it in as 
 simple terms as possible. Fill our Constitu- 
 tion with so much superfluous matter, and it 
 will be more than all the men in the world 
 can do to explain what it means. Here is an 
 endeavor to legislate in the Constitution. 
 Now a Constitution should be a system of 
 abstract principles, — something like the Con- 
 stitution of the United States, — and from 
 those principles should be deduced the proper 
 legislation of the country. Adopt the latter 
 part of this section, and we tie up the future 
 legislation of the country upon this subject. 
 The views of men may change, and our laws 
 may change accordingly. I have never yet 
 come to the conclusion that a written libd 
 should be tolerated in any community. Not 
 because it is an injury done to a person indi- 
 vidually, but because it is a criminal act 
 tending to excite riot and a breach of the 
 peace. It may be true that the greater the 
 truth the greater the Ubel, as declared by the 
 doctrine of the old common law. A man 
 may stick up in the streets obscene carica- 
 tures upon me. They may be true represen- 
 tations, but they may be disgraceful, and may 
 excite riot, and under the clause as it now 
 stands every thing may be done to justify 
 the act This striking out all the old land 
 marks is a dangerous operation at the best. 
 We should consider calmly and wisely before 
 we attempt to do this thing. Men in these 
 days have got to be wiser than what is writ- 
 ten, and the ancient land marks are being 
 torn down. It puts me in mind of thow 
 
•80 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, July 24. 
 
 wise men who last winter made the Dred 
 Scott decision. They had Become wiser 
 than the men who framed the Constitution. 
 Adams and Jefferson and other great men did 
 think the prohibition of slavery Constitutional, 
 but those wise-acres got new light — I sup- 
 pose spiritualism gave it to them — and they 
 decided that those who framed the Constitu- 
 tion knew nothing about it. That is, that 
 the potter is no better than the clay which 
 he fashions — the principle of the quack doc- 
 tor who declares that he knows more of the 
 human system than Heaven which made it. 
 Let us insert in our bill of rights simple ab- 
 stract truths, and let the wisdom of legisla- 
 tion act upon them. 
 
 " In all criminal prosecutions or indictment 
 " for libel or slander " is the reading of the 
 section as it now stands. Is there a lawyer 
 in Minnesota who ever heard of an indictment 
 for slander — words simply spoken? If so, 
 when and where ? Who ever heard of it in 
 the United States ? 
 
 " The jury shall have the right to determine 
 "the law and the fact." That is another 
 new fangled notion. Why, the next thing 
 will be to abolish all our Judge's oflBces. 
 What do we elect Judges for if it is not that 
 they may instruct the jury what the law is ? 
 The jury determine the law and fact ! Why, 
 they are not presumed to know the l^w, and 
 they do not pretend to know it. I never 
 •knew a jury who did not have enough to do 
 to determine the facts. I believe the Consti- 
 tution of the United States prohibits any such 
 course of proceeding. It is going too far. 
 We had better abolish the office of Judges at 
 •once. It has been argued that juries have 
 the right to determine the law and the fact in 
 cri i.inal cases. Now suppose they disregard 
 the instructions of the Judge in a criminal 
 case, and they find an innocent person 
 guilty ; or suppose the law declares that such 
 and such an act shall be deemed larceny, and 
 the Judge so expounds the statute to the jury ; 
 is a juror to disregard the instruction in the 
 one case, and may he hop up and declare 
 that is not larceny in the other ? He might 
 shield his course under such a provision as 
 this in the Constitution, if we adopt it. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. It is a little surprising to 
 me that the gentleman should be opposed to 
 «ny new ideas, and should cling to the past 
 
 as the only safe course by which to be gov- 
 erned. I believe that the world is growing 
 wise, and that this generation knows more 
 than the past one. If there is new light, it 
 becomes us to avail ourselves of it ; and if 
 there are old errors and wrongs, it becomes 
 us to avoid them. It does not necessarily 
 follo^v that because we find a new thing, we 
 should swaUow it good or bad, but the gen- 
 tleman clings to the old doctrine that the 
 greater the truth the greater the libel, and I 
 must confess that I am surprised that any 
 gentleman in this age should advocate such 
 an idea. It may become necessary for a man 
 to publish, for the good of the people, the 
 crimes committed by certain criminals in the 
 community. Papers may publish them, peo- 
 ple may speak of them in the terms befitting 
 the crimes ; and the criminal turns round and 
 prosecutes for libel. The publisher may say 
 the publication is true, and it is for the inter- 
 est of the people to know the facts. " It 
 "makes no difference," says the criminal, 
 " the gi'eater the truth the greater the libel. 
 "If it is true that I am the consummate 
 " scoundrel you represent me, the greater the 
 k* penalty that shall fall upon you." That is 
 a beautiful system to retain in our Constitu- 
 tion. It seems to me that the principle is 
 perfectly absurd. A year or two ago the 
 Mayor of New York issued a proclamation in 
 reference to the knavery of the mock auction 
 shops of that city, and cautioning the public 
 to be on their guard against them. One of 
 them, a little more impudent than the rest, 
 pitched into the Mayor and prosecuted him* 
 Now upon the principle, " the greater the 
 " truth the greater the libel," the penalty 
 against the Mayor would have been pretty 
 heavy. The greater the criminal is, the 
 greater the penalty he can recover in such a 
 case. 
 
 As to the jury being judge of the law as 
 well as of the fact, it is a little surprising that 
 the gentleman should regard that as a new 
 idea. It is a very old one, and though there 
 is a difference among lawyers, and among 
 judges upon the propriety of that course, it 
 has been acted upon, and the courts have 
 sustained it for a very long time. If it is a 
 good one, it ought to be retained. The gen- 
 tleman asks what is the use of having judges. 
 The Drcd Scott decision shows that judges 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, July 24. 
 
 91' 
 
 I 
 
 are not infallible — judges are imperfect as well 
 as jurors, — and if we are to have a Jeffries 
 or a Lecompte upon the bench to rule as 
 some corrupt judges have ruled in times past, 
 I hope the jury will have power to decide 
 upon the law as well as the fact, and thereby 
 save the people from the consequence of 
 such corrupt ruling upon the part of judges. 
 I am more williing to trust power in the hands 
 of the people, than I am to one or two indi- 
 viduals. If there is danger of wrong, that 
 danger is less as the power is divided among 
 a greater number. 
 
 But I like the suggestion of the gentleman 
 at my right, (Mr. Colburn), in regard to 
 leaving this latter clause of the section to be 
 incorporated into that subsequent part of the 
 Constitution which shall treat of crimes and 
 punishments ; and I hope that disposition will 
 be made of it. 
 
 Mr. BALCOilBE. Both those who have 
 spoken in favor of the retention of the clause 
 as reported by the committee, and those in 
 favor of striking it out, have spoken as though 
 this provision was something new and unus- 
 ual. I find in the Constitutions of Maine, 
 Ohio, Wisconsin, and other States, provis- 
 ions and language similar to this. I do not 
 rise to discuss the propriety of retaining tliis 
 clause in om* Constitution, but simply to dis- 
 abuse the minds of those who might be 
 impressed, by what has been said, with the 
 idea that this provision is new. On the con- 
 trary I believe that nearly one-half of the 
 States of the Union havq, in their bill of rights 
 language very similar to this. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Certainly if this pre- 
 vision is to be retained, it ought not to be here. 
 I labor under the difficulty of being some- 
 what old fogyish in my views upon this mat- 
 ter. Such a thing as an indictment for slan- 
 der was never heard of. An indictment for 
 libel is a different tiling. That is a public 
 offence, and no damages are claimed under 
 an indictment. The indictment is for the 
 purpose of punishing a pubUc offence — for 
 the disturbance of the public peace. Dama- 
 ges for a libel are to be recovered in a civil 
 suit. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I am in favor of this sec- 
 tion as reported by the committee, but I 
 think it should not be placed In the Bill of 
 Rights, but in another part of the Constitu- 
 
 tion. I was somewhat astonished that a law- 
 yer, like my friend who has spoken against 
 this clause so eloquently and forcibly, should 
 speak about the common law as a standard 
 which we could not make any better. Were 
 I but to read some of the decisions which have 
 been made under the common law, that law 
 would seem ridiculous to every man here. 
 The doctrine of that law that the greater the 
 crime, the greater the libel, will not bear the 
 test of reason in these days. 
 
 But where shall we have this proposed pro- 
 vision? In the Constitution, or shall we 
 leave the matter to the Legislature ? Sup- 
 pose the Legislature fails to pass such a pro- 
 vision as this, then we shall be under the 
 common law. I say we should leave no 
 chance for that. 
 
 As to the amendments inserting " slander " 
 and "slanderous," I have no doubt the Con- 
 vention will, upon looking at the matter more 
 carefully, say they should not be inserted. 
 I would wish to amend in the last line by in- 
 serting after the word "law" the words, 
 "under the direction of the court." Now at- 
 torneys come before a jury and one states the 
 law in one way, and the other in another way. 
 But the court will be impartial, and a jury 
 after hearing his statement of the law by the 
 court, will be governed by it, rather than by 
 the statement of the attorneys. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. If I thought this the 
 proper time to discuss the right of juries to 
 determine the law, I should offer some further 
 considerations upon it. But I do not. It 
 seems to me that this clause should be strick- 
 en out of the Bill of Rights and should be 
 brought before the Convention at another 
 t"me, and in another form. It ought to be 
 fully discussed, and for the reason that I 
 think it will be stricken out here, and incorpo- 
 rated in another place, I wiU say no more 
 upon it now. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I do not think this matter 
 comes before us from the proper committee. 
 On the first or second day of the Convention 
 there was a select committee appointed to 
 take into consideration the subject of forming 
 permanent committees of this body. That 
 committee, of which, I think, the chairman 
 (Mr. Coggsavell) of the committee on the Bill 
 of Rights was chairman, reported among other 
 thmgs in favor of a committee on Punishment 
 
92 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, July 24. 
 
 of Crimes. Of that committee I have the 
 honor to be chairman. Now tliis Committee 
 on the Preamble and Bill of Eights, with 
 great modesty, have included in their report 
 nearly everything which would properly come 
 under the consideration of the committee on 
 Punishment of Crimes. Upon the duties and 
 jurisdiction of how many other committees 
 they have trespassed, I do not know. In my 
 opinion the course they have pursued is an 
 insult to the committee of which I am chair- 
 man. I am therefore in favor of striking oiit 
 the provision here, and at the proper time I 
 .vhall move to strike out other provisions of 
 this report, because I think they legitimately 
 belong to the duties of other committees. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I deem it proper to say 
 here that the chairman who reported this 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights is not present, 
 and that I do not think it is a very clear case 
 that they have transcended the limits of their 
 duties, because I think that nearly all prece- 
 dent wiU show that the subject matter of this 
 section is within the limits of their duties, 
 and so far as I know, it is incorporated into 
 the Bill of Rights of almost every Constitu- 
 tion I have examined, which has a Bill of 
 Rights. I am not in favor of changing it un- 
 til the chairman who reported it is present, 
 and has an opportunity to speak for himself. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. It is very common to have 
 a clause similar to this in Constitutions, and 
 yet I think the best place for it is not in the 
 Bill of Rights. I have no idea that the com- 
 mittee had any idea of trespassing upon other 
 committees, for they have precedents for in- 
 serting this provision in this part of the Con- 
 stitution, But I think it better to have it 
 elsewhere, and therefore I am in iavor of 
 striking it out. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE, I differ with the gen- 
 tleman who has just taken his seat. If this 
 clause is to be inserted in the Constitution at 
 aU, this is the proper place. On perusing the 
 various Constitutions of the several States, I 
 find that wherever this clause is inserted at 
 all, it is contained under the head of Bill of 
 Rights. In the Now York Constitution it is 
 contained in these words : 
 
 " Every citizen may freely speak, write and pub- 
 lish his sentiments ou all subjects, being responsi- 
 ble for the abuse of that right ; and no law shall be 
 passed to restrain or abridge the liberty of speech 
 
 or of the press. In all criminal prosecutions or 
 indictments for libels, the truth may be given in 
 evidence to the jury, and if it shall appear to the 
 jury, that the matter charged as libellous is true, 
 and was published with good motives and for justi- 
 fiable ends, the party shall be acquitted, and the 
 jury shall have the right to determine the law and 
 the fact." 
 
 Now it seems to me that this is the proper 
 place for this clause, if it is to be inserted in 
 the Constitution at all. I am decidedly in 
 favor of the clause as reported by the com- 
 mittee. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I wish to say a word in 
 regard to my amendment, which was adopt- 
 ed, inserting the words " slander " and " slan- 
 derous." 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I rise to a point of or- 
 der. That amendment has been adopted, and 
 is not now the subject of discussion. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The chair sustains the 
 point of order. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would suggest to the 
 Chair that the pending motion is to strike out 
 that part of the section including my amend- 
 ments, and in the course of the discussion 
 the fact .that the amendment was adopted, 
 has been used as an argument in favor of 
 striking out. I propose to confine my re- 
 marks to the clause as it now stands. I find 
 a difference of opinion among men of the 
 legal profession in this body, on this point. 
 The matter might very properly be left as it 
 is now, and let it be acted upon when it is re- 
 ported to the Convention, at a time when all 
 the members of the Convention shall be 
 here. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I understand that this clause 
 bears only upon the case of libel, whereas 
 there is a clause in a report of another com- 
 mittee, which will come up hereafter, which 
 is much broader and more comprehensive. I 
 believe there is a class of ideas in the public 
 mind for which the Republican party, and 
 the Anti-Slavery party are being made re- 
 sponsible, and for my part I do not intend to 
 become responsible for any ideas which have 
 no necessary connection with the cause for 
 which this party is formed. I do not choose 
 to accept things because they are new. I 
 shall be found in opposition to this idea of 
 giving the jury power to judge the law and 
 fact in all cases. 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I do feel that thw 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fridat, Jclt 24. 
 
 9S 
 
 innovations which are creeping into the laws 
 of the country, are robbing the people. The 
 whole system of our laws, as established by 
 a train of decisions, is being attacked and 
 gradually undermined, and decisions made in 
 times long gone by, by the greatest judges 
 the world ever saw, are now considered as no 
 precedents. Where do you go now for your 
 decisions upon matters of law ? To a set of j 
 young attorneys. Clients are placed at the ; 
 mercy of young attorneys who frequently j 
 have never read of law out of the Territory ! 
 of Minnesota. There is a day coming in this ! 
 Convention, when I hope to be heard at ■ 
 length upon this subject. The people are \ 
 now at the mercy of what is called the code — ! 
 a mass of contradictions which no lawyer can [ 
 fathom. Take that New York code, and the ; 
 decisions upon it in the different districts of \ 
 that State, and in the court of appeals, and 
 decisions in number one of Howard's reports, | 
 are contradicted in number two. You read a j 
 decision from one volume and some snap of a 
 lawyer will get up and read a different decis- 
 ion from another volume. I hope this Con- 
 vention will be cautious how they make any 
 further innovations upon the old and well tried 
 system. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I do not suppose the code 
 by which we practice, — adopted from the 
 State of New York — is properly under dis- 
 cussion, but as it has been attacked rather 
 fiercely, I wish to say that that very much 
 abused New York code has become the 
 admiration of the civilized world. It is 
 applauded in England, and the highest enco- 
 miums have been passed upon it there — that 
 code which we were so unfortunate as to 
 adopt some seven years ago. Some of the 
 leading minds, and ablest lawyers of New 
 York were engaged in the preparation of it. 
 Graham, of New York City, one of the 
 ablest lawyers and most expert practitioners, 
 was one of them. It swept away the rubish 
 and fictions of law which had accumulated 
 for centuries, and which were only productive 
 . of expense to clients. The old lawyers of 
 the State, at that time, were mostly opposed 
 to those innovations, and some of them stood 
 out stoutly against it. But no longer ago 
 than last winter, I was conversing with a son 
 of Joshua Spencer, an old lawyer, who was 
 originally opposed to the code. His son 
 
 informed me that his father was written to by 
 a practitioner in Iowa for his opinion of that 
 code. He replied in a long letter, passing the 
 highest encomiums upon it. 'And thus it has 
 worked itself into the approbation of the best 
 l^al minds in that State. 
 
 As to the mode in which that code has 
 been administered here by our judges, I have 
 nothing to say. I wiU let the Miimesota 
 judges speak for themselves. 
 
 Mr. KING. This section is merely a decla- 
 ration of rights, and if we should exlcude it 
 from a place here because it will necessarily 
 find a place in another part of the Constitu- 
 tion, we ought to exclude seven eighths of this 
 report. Examine every section of it, and 
 you will find that nearly all of them would 
 properly be embraced in the reports of other 
 committees more or less. I understand the 
 bill of rights to be merely a declaration of 
 certain rights and privileges which belong to 
 the people, and we base ovu* Constitution upon 
 those rights, and as a consequence we shall 
 embrace more or less of them in every article 
 of that Constitution. I am in favor of letting 
 this section stand as it is reported ; it will not 
 interfere with the reports of other standing 
 committees in the least. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. One word in answer to 
 my friend fix)m Scott coimty, [Mr. Gav- 
 BRAriH.] I do not claim to be anything else 
 than a young lawyer, nor have I ever prac- 
 ticed law except in the Territory of Minnesota. 
 Pitching into the New York code seems to be 
 the order of the day now, but as it is, it is 
 not necessary to eulo^ze that code. The 
 world is eulogizing it by adopting it, and I 
 hesitate not to say that as a system of prac- 
 tice, it is infinitely beyond any thing e\&r 
 offered to the world before. 
 
 As to this matter of slander, I aver that no 
 man lives who can take the laws and decis- 
 ions of the State of Pennsylvania, and say 
 what the law of slander is there ; and you 
 cannot get a good lawyer in that State to give 
 you a written opinion upon a case of slander, 
 without his saying that the code is very im- 
 certain, because the decisions are so contra- 
 dictory. Now shall we, in this state of things, 
 submit to such uncertainty here, where there 
 are frequently political animosities 'pervading 
 he hearts of our judges, who ought to be 
 incorruptible and uninfluenced by such fe«l- 
 
94 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Feiday, July 24. 
 
 ings ? Shall we put reputation, standing and 
 property all in the hands of one single man? 
 The first Constitution in this book of Con- 
 stitutions, wliich I hold in my hand, has in it 
 such a provision as we contemplate ; and the 
 last has it also, and it rvms through most of 
 them. But we need not to pass it upon the 
 strength of precedent, because it stands upon 
 its own merits, as weU as upon precedent. 
 Every man knows that it is wrong to say 
 that the greater the truth a man enunciates, 
 the greater the libel and the jjunishment. 
 That needs to be modified by circumstances 
 which may be presented to a jury — and that 
 jury of twelve men is the best tribunal to 
 say what amount of punishment shall be 
 inflicted upon a man for what he has said. 
 
 As to the idea of its being something new, 
 it is entirely without foundation ; because it 
 is found in the oldest Constitution almost that 
 we can find. "The -greater the truth the 
 greater the libel" has never been sanctioned 
 universally, and never has been sanctioned 
 by all the gi'eat legal minds even in New 
 York. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. The question is upon 
 striking out all after the word "press" not 
 because it ought not to be inserted in the 
 Constitution, but because this is not the proper 
 place. I am opposed to striking it out, and 
 in favor of leaving it just where it is. 
 
 The subject of the New York code has 
 been pretty freely discussed by our young 
 friends upon both sides. I am neitheir a 
 young man, nor a young lawyer, having lived 
 more than half a century, and practiced law 
 upwards of twenty years. And I must say 
 that did I desire to live by a world of litiga- 
 tion I should advocate the adoption of the 
 New York code everywhere, and upon all oc- 
 casions, because a very little ingenuity will 
 construe it to mean anything and everything. 
 I can take it and make out a case to a jury 
 which they cannot resist, and get a verdict 
 either way. Now, I have passed the time of 
 life when I care a great deal about fun, and 
 consequently I am in favor of a steady pro- 
 gressive movement. I am in favor of holding 
 individuals responsible for all libelous matter 
 they may publish ; in favor of allowing them 
 to plead the truth of the assertion which they 
 have made, and if they can establish it by le- 
 gal testimony, why let them go hence without 
 
 delay. If they cannot, let the jury decide 
 upon the law and the fact in reference to the 
 matter. 
 
 An amendment was suggested that the jury 
 should be the judges of the law under the 
 direction of the court. I shall always be 
 opposed to anything of that kind. It was 
 once decided by a very distinguished judge of 
 Indiana that a juror who disregarded the in- 
 structions of the court, was guilty of perjury. 
 It was subsequently decided by a full bench, 
 that such was not the law, and that a juror 
 might honestly differ from even a judge. I 
 hold that a juror should respect the law as 
 given by a court, yet that they have the right 
 to find a verdict directly contrary to the 
 ruling of the court. If I were a juror and the 
 judge should instruct me contrary to what I 
 considered to be law, I should feel under no 
 obligation to pay any sort of attention to his 
 instructions. In all criminal cases the jury 
 should have a perfect right to decide upon 
 both law and fact. I hope this provision will 
 remain where it is, and as it is. 
 
 The question was then put upon Mr. Col- 
 bubn's amendment, and it was lost. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I now move to amend by 
 inserting after the word "determine" in the 
 last line, the words " the facts and the law 
 "under the direction of the court." My 
 amendment will leave the jury to determine 
 everything. They will not be bound by the 
 court. It becomes the duty of the court to 
 instruct the jury as to what the law is, and 
 the jury then conclude themselves whether 
 the court has properly instructed them or not. 
 The counsel upon one side insists that the law 
 is so and so, while the counsel upon the other 
 side will insist that it is exactly the reverse, 
 but generally the instruction of the judge 
 would be much nearer correct, and more re- 
 liable than the diction of lawyers upon either 
 side. I trust the amendment will Ije adopted. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I object to the amendment 
 I think it makes the clause vague and uncer- 
 tain. The object of the section is to make it 
 the right of the jury to decide the law and the 
 fact. Now if it is said that they shall have 
 the right to decide it under the direction of 
 the court, and in a given instance they should 
 decide the law contrary to the instructions of 
 the court, might not this clause as amended 
 be brought up against them to show they did 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fkidat, Jult 24. 
 
 93 
 
 not decide the law under the direction of the 
 court ? 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I would ask what in 
 the world judges are for ? What arc their 
 duties in criminal cases if not to expound the 
 law ? Are they to be set upon the bench to 
 keep order merely, as though they were only 
 presiding over a town meeting? If the jury 
 are to expound the law why not abolish the 
 court, and fall back upon first principles?— 
 restore the old system of decision by battle, 
 and turn the parties out to try which can 
 whip the other. 
 
 But there is such a thing as law now recog- 
 nized, and if this levelling system is to be 
 adopted, I hope, before I am called upon to 
 vote upon it, that some one will expound to 
 me the office and duties of a judge upon crim- 
 inal trials. What are his fimctions, if we 
 put into the Constitution an unbending rule 
 that the jury shall decide the law and the fact ? 
 He is reduced to nothing and you might as 
 well set upon the bench a block of wood. 
 You deprive the judge of every function that 
 belongs to him by virtus of his office as judge. 
 But you say the judge is to expound the law 
 to the jury, but the jury is not bound to res- 
 pect the law. It is said judges may be cor- 
 rupt. There have been corrupt judges in the 
 world, but have there not also been corrupt, 
 juries ? And is it not a matter of history that 
 the decision of a jury is the most doubtful 
 thing in the world ? One very learned judge 
 did say, that he acknowledged the omni- 
 science of Divine Providence, but there were 
 two things which even Providence never could 
 know, before they happened — one was the 
 decision of a traverse jury. 
 
 I have as much confidence in the decisions 
 of the people as any man, but I believe in 
 every man's following his own business. I 
 do not believe that a blacksmith can make a 
 watch. I do not like to see a man get above 
 his business. When we look aromid for a 
 judge we endeavor to get one who is legally 
 educated ; who has had practice and experi- 
 ence ; and who is supposed to know all about 
 law. When vre look for a jury we seek for 
 intelligent and honest men. It is the duty of 
 the judge to expound to the jury what the 
 law is, and he is the only fit man to expound 
 the law to twelve men who do not pretend to 
 know what the law is. Who is the better 
 
 judge of the law in a given case, the judge or 
 the jury ? I hope we shall stop and tlaink 
 before we adopt this levelmg system, rob the 
 court of all its character, and turn it into a 
 town meeting. 
 
 Take the works of that noble race of legal 
 minds which have run down the stream of 
 time from the first establishment of the com- 
 mon law, to this day; take the works of 
 Blackstone, and Coke, and Sugden, and Mans- 
 field, and others, — books now musty on the 
 shelves, and scarcely ever read, — and they 
 contain an epitome of the wisdom of the 
 world, and are the bulwarks of the fiberty 
 we enjoy to-day. We should thank God that 
 those books are still in existence. Deprive 
 the judges of their functions, and it will be 
 like running a railroad car without a locomo- 
 tive. Tell me, some one, what are to be the 
 functions of a judge under this new system. 
 There always has been a definition of a judge. 
 Webster's dictionary will give it. Blackstone 
 will give it. The history of the world will 
 give it. But you will wipe them all out, and 
 make out another. I should hke to see it 
 put into plain English, so that I may know, 
 before I vote for the clause, what a judge is 
 to be now. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I do not see such cause of 
 alarm and fear of a catastrophe, in conse- 
 quence of adopting tliis good old provision, 
 for it has been inserted in many of the Con- 
 stitutions of our States, and it has had a bene- 
 ficial influence. I do not think the rights of 
 the people will be all taken away from them. 
 As wise States and statesmen have adopted 
 this provision, I think, if there were such evils 
 as the gentleman seems to anticipate, we 
 should have been likely to have found them 
 out before this. The gentleman tells us that 
 lawyers and the judiciary are the guardians 
 of the people's rights, and have been ; and he 
 runs back to the time of Coke and Littleton, 
 Blackstone and Mansfield, as though they 
 were the ones above all others who guarded 
 the people's rights, and protected them in the 
 enjoyment thereof. I am glad he referred to 
 Lord Mansfield, for there was, in his time, a 
 a case involving the liberties of man as man. 
 A Coke, a Littleton, and a Blackstone, had 
 decided that a man could be robbed of his 
 liberties, and that the Constitution of England 
 authorized it. All the lawyers, and all the 
 
f« 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Feidat, Jclt 24. 
 
 judges, Mansfield into the bargain, so decided. 
 But one common-sense man said, '* No ! the 
 " Constitution of England sanctions no such 
 " thing." That man studied the law, vindi- 
 cated his principles, fought it from year to 
 year, imtil he compelled Mansfield upon the 
 bench to reverse liis decision, and compelled 
 Blackstone to revise his commentaries, and to 
 declare to the world that slaves cannot 
 breathe in England. 
 
 I tell you common-sense people sometimes 
 know the law better than judges. It was 
 said by a wise and shrewd man that the use 
 of language was to enable us to conceal our 
 ideas, and many judges adnainister the law as 
 though its object were to defeat the ends of 
 justice. There are little minds upon the 
 bench as well as off it ; and many judges ad- 
 minister the law as though its technicalities 
 were more important to be preserved, than 
 the rights of the people. 
 
 The gentleman asks what is the use of a 
 judge unless he can rule the jury in regard to 
 the law. With as much propriety he might 
 ask what is the use of witnesses if the jury 
 are to determine the facts. Why, the wit- 
 nesses bring the facts before the jury for their 
 consideration, and the counsel and the judge 
 bring the law before them for consideration. 
 If there is no possible use for a judge unless 
 he can control the jury on subjects of law, we 
 might say, with equal propriety, that there 
 is no use for witnesses unless the jury are 
 bound to believe every witness who is sworn. 
 The counsel will differ in their interpretation 
 of law, and the judge makes his statement 
 before the jury to guide their judgment to a 
 correct decision. But judges are not infalli- 
 ble, as he himself has showai. I do not know 
 as the gentleman, in his encomiums of the 
 judges of England, meant to have us believe 
 that the judges of Minnesota are as infallible. 
 If so, I beg leave to differ with him. I doubt 
 very much whether some of our recently ap- 
 pointed judges are more infallible than some 
 of our juries. 
 
 Mr. KING. I move that the committee 
 rise. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I hope the motion will 
 not prevail. In all probability the Conven- 
 tion will adjourn to-day, imtil Monday, and 
 it seems that we ought to be willing to devote 
 • good part of this day to the consideration 
 
 of this report in order to bring our Conven- 
 tion to a close at the earliest possible day. If 
 individuals desire to go home upon the boat 
 which leaves at twelve o'clock, they can go, 
 and the rest of us can remain here and 
 work. 
 
 The motion was lost. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I hope the amendment 
 wiU prevail. If I understand the object of 
 this bill of rights, it is to declare a few funda- 
 mental ideas, which are to be carried out in 
 the body of the Constitution. I am in favor 
 of sticking out the latter part of this section, 
 for the reason that we ought to enunciate but 
 simple principles in the bill of rights and 
 nothing more. We have appointed commit- 
 tees to carry out in detail the programme laid 
 down in the bill of rights, which, in my opin- 
 ion, should be as simple and concise as possi- 
 ble. Hence I shall vote for this amendment. 
 Unless we are cautious, we shall get into deep 
 water, and shall anticipate in this bill of 
 rights, things which properly belong to tb© 
 reports of other committees. I do claim that 
 the committee which made this report, ex- 
 ceeded, not only in this section, but in various 
 other sections, their legitimate sphere of 
 action. I hope in such cases we shall strike 
 the sections out. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I believe the amendment 
 to insert the words " slander" and " slander- 
 ous " was adopted. If so, I shall now vote 
 against the whole section. It seems to me 
 that in a case of libel the jury are better qual- 
 ified to judge of the law than any one else, 
 but I am opposed to extend that power to the 
 case of slander. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The amendment to which 
 the gentleman referred was adopted and now 
 forms a part of the section. I offered that 
 amendment supposing that what is technically 
 called slander — that is the spealdng of certain- 
 words — was indictable. Other gentlemen 
 took a different view of it. I find by con- 
 sulting what no gentleman will dispute to be 
 good authority, that I was right. I propose 
 to read a few lines from Wharton's Ameri- 
 can Criminal Law, pages 534, 535, and 536. 
 
 "An indictment will lie for all words spoken of 
 another which impute to him the commission of 
 some crime punishable by law, such as high trea- 
 son, murder, or other felony (whether by statute 
 or at common law) forgery, perjury, subomatioo 
 of perjury, and other misdemeanorB." 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, Jcly 24. 
 
 97 
 
 "An indictment will lie for all words spoken of 
 another which will have the eflfect of excluding 
 him from society, as for instance to charge him 
 with having an infectious disease, such as leprosy, 
 the venereal disease, the itch or the like. But 
 charging him with having had a contagious dis- 
 ease is not actionable, for, as this relates to time 
 past, it is no reason why his society should be 
 avoided at present." 
 
 "No indictment however will lie for words not 
 reduced to writing, unless they be seditious, blas- 
 phemous, grossly immoral, or uttered to the mag- 
 istrate in the execution of his office, or uttered as 
 a challenge to fight a duel, or with an intention to 
 provoke the other party to send a challenge," 
 
 Now if that class of cases is indictable, it 
 seems to me it is the very class of cases, of all 
 others, which should have the benefit of the 
 provisions of this article. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE, I have a substitue to 
 offer to the pending amendment, which I 
 think will obviate all this diflBculty. It is to 
 strike out all after the word " acquitted '' and 
 to insert " and in all indictments for Ubel the 
 '•jury having received the direction of the 
 '• court, shall have the right to decide at 
 *' their discretion, the law and the facts." 
 This will procure the direction of the court, 
 and at the same time leave the jury, at their 
 discretion, to decide the law and the facts. 
 I think the amendment covers the whole 
 ground upon which so much debate has been 
 had. • 
 
 The substitute was adopted. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I move to amend the sec- 
 tion by inserting the word "that" before the 
 word "right" where it first occurs. 
 
 The amendment was adopted. 
 
 Sec. 5. The right of trial by jury shall remain 
 inviolate ; and shall extend to all cases at law 
 without regard to the amount in controversy ; but 
 a jury trial may be waived by the parties in all 
 cases in the manner prescribed by law. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to amend that 
 section by inserting the word " civil " before 
 the word " cases " where it last appears. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I approve of the amend- 
 ment. In most of the Constitutions that 
 word " civil " is used in that connection, and 
 there is a propriety in its use. 
 
 ilr. COLBURN. I hope the amendment 
 will not prevail. I can see no objection to 
 allowing a party in a criminal trial to waive 
 that right. 
 
 Now I am not one of those who deem it 
 
 13 
 
 my special duty to follow what is prescribed 
 in some other instnmient. The gentleman 
 fi-om Winona [Mr. Balcombe,'] in eveay 
 instance in which he has spoken in favor of 
 any measure, has based his views upon the 
 fact that some other instrument has contained 
 a provision similar to the one imder conside- 
 ration. While I would pay due regard to all 
 other Constitutions, I am not willing to bind 
 myself to foUow their example in all respects. 
 I am not afraid of adopting some new ideas, 
 if they seem reasonable and proper. I be- 
 lieve we may well make some improve- 
 ments. I do not believe that hvunan wisdom 
 has yet devised an instrument but what may 
 be improved. I can' see no objection to 
 allowing any person in all cases to waive his 
 right of trial by jnry, if he chooses. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I thought my amendment 
 so obviously proper that tliere could be no 
 doubt about it. To grant a criminal the ri^t 
 to choose whether he will be tried by a jury 
 of his vicinage, or by some judge whom he 
 might fancy would try his case better, is a 
 thing which has never yet been done in this 
 country. I suppose that the mere suggestion 
 of the amendment would carry its own pro- 
 priety with it. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. The gentleman is mis- 
 taken in regard to the language used in this 
 section. It says trial may be waived by the 
 parties — ^not by one party, but by hoth par- 
 ties. In all cases, both civil and criminal, 
 there are two parties, and if both choose to 
 waive trial by jury, they can do so. It doeg 
 not lie in the person of a criminal alone to 
 say he will waivs such a trial. He must have 
 the consent of the prosecuting attorney. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. In the State of Ohio a crim- 
 inal has the right to choose between a jury 
 trial and a trial by court in all cases which 
 are not penitentiary offences. • 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I think it eminently prop- 
 er that the amendment should prevail. It is 
 true that in all cases there are two parties. 
 In criminal cases the people are one party, 
 and in all cases of that kind I think a jury 
 trial should be had. It is* true, as has been 
 remarked, that a jury trial cannot be waived, 
 except by the consent of both parties, but it 
 seems to me improper to allow any district 
 attorney to take the responsibility of waiving 
 a jury trial. 
 
9S 
 
 MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Fkiuay, Jlly 24, 
 
 It is true, as the gentleman, says, that im- 
 provements should be made upon the Consti- 
 tutions Avhich have been made before. It is 
 equally true that no Constitution was ever 
 framed wliich was in itself perfect, and not 
 susceptible of some improvement ; and the 
 questions, in cases like this, arises, whether 
 this is really an improvement. I do not con- 
 sider it as such. I think it is a departure 
 from the principles usually adopted in cases 
 of this kind. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. It is not necessary to go 
 to Ohio, or any other State to find examples. 
 For the last six years we have been living 
 under just such a law as this is. At the 
 present time any criminal arraigned before a 
 magistrate — and there is a very large class of 
 offenses triable before that oflBcer — has a 
 right, of his own accord, and without consul- 
 tation with the prosecution, to waive a trial 
 by jury, and to be tried by the magistrate 
 Our statute provides that the magistrate shall 
 demand of a criminal brought before him, 
 whether he waives a trial by jury, and unless 
 he does expressly waive it, a jm-y is to be 
 summoned. If he expressly chooses to sub- 
 magistrate, the government has no control over 
 mit himself to the trial and judgment of the 
 him. Although I do not consider the reser- 
 vation necessary in this article, I would ob- 
 ject to making a distinction between civil and 
 criminal cases. When we say that the rights 
 of trial by jury shall be preserved, we do not 
 say necessarily, or by unplication that a trial 
 by jury shall not be enforced upon any one. 
 We simi^y say that parties shall be entitled 
 to it as a matter of right. I see no reason 
 why a distinction should be made between the 
 two cases. In civil cases it is not optional 
 with either party to have the tiial by the 
 court, for either party may demand a trial 
 by a jury, l^he proposition, as contained 
 in this article, does not give the criminal the 
 right to choose, but gives it to both par- 
 ties. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN, Ti-ue that in minor offen- 
 ces, triable before a magistrate, the accused 
 may waive a jury trial at his option, and choose 
 to be tried by the magistrates. But in the 
 higher grade of offenses, to be tried before 
 higher courts, to allow the district attorney 
 and the courLscl for the offenders, by simple 
 agreement, to compel the court to try the 
 
 criminal, would be something new, imheard 
 of, and highly objectionable. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. WATSON. The chairman of the 
 committee on the Preamble and Bill of Rights 
 is not present, and as there seems to be a 
 disposition to clip and criticise this report, I 
 move, in order to give the chairman an oppor- 
 tunity to be here, that the committee rise. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The committee accordingly rose, and the 
 President having resumed the chair, Mr. 
 Stannard reported that the committee of the 
 Whole had had under consideration the report 
 of the committee on the Preamble and Bill of 
 Rights and had made progi-ess thereon. 
 
 Mr. NORTH moved to lay the report on 
 the table. 
 
 Mr. STAN:NARD. I rise to a question of 
 order. I submit that without a motion of 
 the Convention the report goes among the 
 special orders ready to be taken up when we 
 go into committee again. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is usual in such 
 cases, when the committee hav^ not com- 
 pleted its labors, to ask leave to sit again. 
 When leave is granted, the subject matter of 
 consideration lies upon the table as a matter 
 of course, but when leave is not granted the 
 report is properly before the Convention for 
 its disposition. 
 
 The report was laid on the table. 
 
 ADJOURNMENT OVER. 
 
 Mr. LYLE moved that the Convention 
 adjourn until two o'clock, p. m. 
 
 Mr. NORTH moved to amend by making 
 it two o'clock on Monday. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I deem it my duty to 
 vote against any adjournment over. A largo 
 portion of the members of this Convention 
 live so far from this place that it would be im- 
 possible for them to go home and return with- 
 in the proposed time. If we are to adjourn 
 over, I want it for a sufficient length of time 
 tb allow me to go home also, and that will be 
 a week to say the least. But I am opposed 
 to adjourning over at all. If gentlemen must 
 go home, let them go, but let the rest go on 
 with our business. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS, I am opposed to idling 
 my time away for a day or two for the pur- 
 pose of accommodating a few gentlemen who 
 live near by, and I do not think it is the wish 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fkiday, July 24. 
 
 93 
 
 of a majority of the Convention to adjourn. 
 I hope the motion will not be agi'eed to. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. Gentlemen have said that 
 their business at home was suflfering. Mine, 
 too, is suffering, and I am in favor of brining, 
 this Convention to a close as soon as it can 
 be done and done properly. I hope we shall 
 not adjourn. 
 
 The amendment was lost. 
 
 The motion to adjourn was then carried, 
 and the Convention adjourned until two 
 o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 The Convention met at two o'clock. 
 
 BEPOET. 
 
 Mr. SMITH, from the committee on Ex- 
 emption of Real and Personal Estate, and the 
 Rights of Married Women, made the follow- 
 ing report, which was read a first and second 
 time, and laid upon the table to be printed, 
 viz : 
 
 Eepoet on Exemptions of Real and Personal Es- 
 tate, and the Rights of Married Women. 
 Sec. 1. The personal property of every resi- 
 dent of this State, to consist of such property as 
 shall be designated by law, shall be exempted to 
 the amount of not less than two hundred and fifty 
 (^250) dollars from sale on execution or other final 
 process of any Court issued for the collection of 
 any debt contracted after the adoption of this Con- 
 stitution. 
 
 Sec. 2. Every homestead owned and occupied 
 by any resident of this State, not exceeding in 
 value the sum of one thousand ($1000) dollars, 
 shall be exempt from forced sale on execution, or 
 any other final process from a Court for any debt 
 contracted after the adoption of this Constitution ; 
 such exemption shall not extend to any mortwafe 
 thereon ; but such mortgage or alienation by the 
 owner thereof, if a married man, shall not be valid 
 without the signature of the wife. 
 
 Sec. 3. The homestead of a family after the 
 death of the owner, shall be exempt from the pay- 
 ment of his debts in all cases daring the minority 
 of his children. 
 
 Sec 4. If the owner of a homestead die, leav- 
 ing a widow, but no children, the same shall be 
 exempt, and the income thereof shall accrue to her 
 benefit during the time of her widowhood, unless 
 she be the owner of a homestead in her own 
 right. 
 
 Sec. o. The real and personal estate of every 
 female, acquired before marriage, and all property 
 to which she may afterwards become entitled, by 
 gift, grant, inheritance or devise, shall be and re- 
 main the estate and property of such female, and 
 may be devised or disposed of only by the con- 
 currence of the husband. 
 
 ADJOrBN'MEXT OVES. 
 
 Mr."; SECOMBE. I move that when the 
 Convention adjourn it adjourns to meet on 
 Monday next at ten o'clock, a. a. It is ap- 
 parent that we have a bare quorum present, 
 and I wish to know what course the Conven- 
 tion intends to take for to-morrow, that we 
 may make our calculations accordingly. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I shall oppose that mo- 
 tion now, and always. Our labors have not 
 been performed, and I, for one, shaU not con- 
 sent to any adjournment beyond what is 
 usual, until they are finished. Nor do I wish 
 to remain here on expense, to let others, whose 
 convenience it may suit, return home. Gen- 
 tlemen say that business requires them to go 
 home. That is the case with all of us. If 
 our business at home is more important than 
 our business here, let us go home and stay 
 there. Dutj' called me here, and duty will 
 keep me here until our .^work is done. If ne- 
 cessity were a'controling argument I should 
 be on my homeward journey too. But my 
 private interests suffer and must suffer if the 
 public good requires my presence here. If 
 some members leave there will be less speeches 
 made, and we shall get on the faster. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I am opposed to adjourn- 
 ing over. If some members see fit to go home, 
 let us who remain, continue to do our business. 
 So far as the plea of necessity is concerned I 
 might as well urge it as any others, but I am 
 willing to devote as much time as is neces- 
 sary to form a constitution, and I do not wish 
 to waste any time here, to allow others to 
 enjoy a trip home. 
 
 The motion to adjourn over was lost. 
 
 COMMITTEE OX LEAAT; OF ABSENCE. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN offered the following reso- 
 lution, which was read, considered and agreed 
 to: 
 
 " WnEBEAS, It is desirable that the Convention 
 complete the business for which it was assembled 
 at as early a day as possible, and whereas it is de- 
 sirable that as many members as possible shall be 
 present to participate in the transaction of such 
 business, therefore, 
 
 Besolved, That there be a select committee of 
 three appointed upon "Leave of Absence." 
 
 PREAMBLE AXD BILL OF BIGHTS. 
 
 On motion of Mr. HARDD^G, the Con- 
 vention resolved itself into committee of the 
 Whole on the report of the committee upon 
 
100 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Feidat, July 24. 
 
 the Preamble and Bill of Eights. (Mr. Col- 
 burn in the Chair. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I rise to a point of 
 order. The report of the committee was this 
 morning, by special action of the Convention, 
 laid upon the table ; therefore it was not in 
 the general orders, and cannot come before 
 the committee of the Whole for consideration. 
 I move that the committee rise for the pur- 
 pose of taking that report from the table. I 
 do not make the motion for purposes of delay, 
 but that we may appear right upon the 
 record. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The committee accordingly rose, and the 
 President resumed the Chair of the Conven- 
 tion. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I now move that the 
 report of the committee upon the Preamble 
 and Bill of Rights be taken from the table and 
 refered to the committee of the Whole. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 On motion of Mr. SECOMBE the Conven- 
 tion then resolved itself into a committee of 
 the Whole (Mr. Colbcrn in the Chair) and re- 
 sumed the consideration of the report on the 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, commencing 
 with section six, where the committee left off 
 in the morning. 
 
 The section was read as follows : 
 
 Sec. 6. Excessive bail shall not be required ; 
 nor shall excessive fines be imposed ; nor shall 
 cruel and unusual punishments be inflicted. 
 
 Mr. DULEY. I move to strike out that 
 section. There is a special committee ap- 
 pointed to take into consideration the subject 
 matter of this section, and it seems necessary, 
 in order that we may have a report from the 
 committee on Punishment of Crimes, that 
 this section should be stricken out. It would 
 seem as though the committee on Bill of 
 Rights liad reported almost every subject that 
 could possibly come before the committee on 
 Punishment of Crimes. If they may legnti- 
 mately do so, why should the other committee 
 be appointed? I am opposed to one com- 
 mittee encroaching upon the jurisdiction of 
 another. It hope we will strike out this sec- 
 tion and leave the matter to como up upon the 
 report of some other committee, 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I am well aware that 
 there is some clasliing of the reports of the 
 committees, but it will be the province of this 
 
 committee of the Whole to strike out from 
 one or the other, according to their judgment, 
 so that' there wiU finally be no clashing in the 
 Constitution. The question with us should 
 be, which is the proper place for each subject 
 matter. This sixth section is purely a decla- 
 ration of rights, and it seems peculiarly' ap- 
 propriate that it should be retained where it 
 is. If it should be admitted here, and in our 
 judgment the only proper place for it, then 
 if it should come up again in the report of 
 the committee on Punishment of Crimes, 
 there would be the proper place to strike it 
 out. On the other hand if this is not the 
 proper place for it, we should strike it out 
 here, and retain it in another place. 
 
 Mr. MESSER. The Chairman of the com- 
 mittee who made this report is absent, and I 
 hope it will not be further considered until he 
 can be present. Some imputations have been 
 cast upon that committee for apparently in- 
 truding upon the jurisdiction of other com- 
 mittees, but I can assure gentlemen that the 
 committee had no intention of interfering in 
 the least. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. This section properly 
 belongs under the head of Bill of Rights if 
 we adopt such a clause at all. 
 
 In those Constitutions which do not con- 
 tain a Bill of Rights, this'^clause comes under 
 the jurisdiction of the Judiciary committee, 
 and would be more apt to be put into the re- 
 port of that committee than in any other. 
 Wherever there is a Bill of Rights this section 
 is contained in it, and properly comes under 
 that head. As to the clashmg of reports, it 
 is a matter of minor consequence. Our ob- 
 ject is to frame a constitution, and if various 
 committees report various clauses which may 
 perhaps more properly belong to some other 
 committee, we will, as we take up those re- 
 ports, adopt what we think ought to be adop- 
 ted, and wliich we tliink to be in an appro- 
 priate place, without reference to the fact that 
 they did or did not come from the most appro- 
 priate committee. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I do not wish to stick for 
 -.small points, but it does appear that this sub- 
 ject in the sixth section belongs exclusively to 
 the report of the committee on- the Punish- 
 ment of Crimes. That committee was ap- 
 pointtd for something or it was appointed for 
 nothing. If it was appointed for something. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— FKiirAf, Jc&y M*^ 
 
 401. 
 
 what was it ? Was it for the purpose of get- [ 
 ting certain members appointed upon unim- 
 portant committees, in order that others might 
 get all the important portions upon other 
 committees ? I do not say but that this sec- 
 tion comes in appropriately here. But that is 
 a matter of after consideration with the com- 
 mittee on Arrangement and Phraseology. . If 
 they should see fit to put it under this head 
 finally, I have no objection, but I do contend 
 that for the present, it belongs to the province 
 of the committee on the Punishment of Crimes, 
 and therefore I hope it will be stricken out 
 here, and retained in the report of that com- 
 mittee. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. There seems to be a jeal- 
 ousy between the different committees here, 
 and an apprehension that they have been 
 trespassed upon by the report of the commit- 
 tee on the Preamble and Bill of Rights, and 
 some hard feehng seems to have been engen- 
 dered against that committee for their pre- 
 sumption in thus encroaching. I do not 
 beUeve there was any malicious intention upon 
 the part of anj- one of thai; committee, nor do 
 I believe that they intended to deprive any 
 one of the honor or glory of making reports 
 upon the different subjects committed to 
 them. It seems to me the feeUng results 
 from a misapprehengion of the purport of the 
 BUI of Rights. Its object, as I understand 
 it, is to set forth to the world those fundamen- 
 tal ideas and principles which underlie our 
 Constitution, xind it seems to me that there 
 would be no impropriety even should the 
 Constitution go on and re-affirm those great 
 principles a second time, even in the identical 
 language of the Bill of Rights. I see no 
 objection to such a course. It seems to me 
 that this jealousy is entirely wrong, and that 
 in fact there has been no trespass upon the 
 rights of any committee. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I think the committee, in 
 giving us this report, have gone into details 
 more than was necessary, and more than is 
 usual for committees on the Preamble and 
 Bill of Rights to do. But I should regret 
 exceedingly to believe that tliey designed to* 
 exceed their powers. The section under con- 
 sideration I would regard as eminently proper 
 to be incorporated in the Bill of Rights, 
 whether coming legitimately from that com- 
 mittee or not. It is simple, precise, and 
 
 expressed in just the language I like. It is 
 the ground work wliich vmderlies and sus- 
 tains a lai^ amoimt of legislation, and if we 
 were to exclude any section upon this page 
 of the report, it should not be that one. If 
 any are to be stricken out, I would prefer to 
 strike out the two following ones, which are 
 but details of the same idea. 
 
 Mr. D4VIS. I wish it distinctly under- 
 stood that I mean to impute no wrong inten- 
 tion to the committee which made this report.' 
 I merely wished to say, that, in my opinion, 
 they did report what should properly come 
 from the committee on Punishment of Crimes. 
 Mr. BUTLER. I think that committee 
 have done no more than any member of 
 this Convention would have done, had they 
 been members of that committee. They 
 have only followed out precedents which have 
 been set in the formation of other State Con- 
 stitutions. I think they have done their duty 
 and nothing more. Ever since the appoint- 
 ment of the committee on Punishment of 
 Crimes, I have been of the opinion that they 
 had nothing to do, and I felt thankful for 
 being placed upon a committee whose duties 
 were so light. I had myself no idea of 
 reporting any thing from that committee, from 
 the fact that I was aware that the whole 
 ground would be covered by other commit- 
 tees. I was of opinion that the committee 
 was formed for the express purpose of giving 
 places to some members upon it. 
 
 The question was taken on the amendment, 
 and it was lost. 
 
 Sec. 7. In all criminal prosecutions the accused 
 shall enjoy the right to be heard by himself and 
 counsel ; to demand the nature and cause of the 
 accusation against him ; to meet the witness face 
 to face ; to have compulsory process to compel the 
 attendance of witnesses in his behalf and in prose- 
 cutions by indictment or information, to a speedy 
 public trial by an impartial jurj* of the county or 
 district wherein the offence shall have been com- 
 mitted, which county or district shall have been 
 previously ascertained by law. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I move that that entire sec- 
 tion be stricken out, and for the same reasons 
 I gave in fiivor of striking out section six. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. There has been -some 
 talk about following precedents, and about 
 there being men who can see nothing good 
 in what is old, and no good but in that which 
 is new. I do not belong to cither of those 
 classes. I do not believe any thing is good 
 
102,. 
 
 '^JNlfEgOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fiuday, Jily 2-i. 
 
 because it is old, nor bad because it is new. 
 I am in favor of adopting in this Convention, 
 so far as we can do so, the precedents set us 
 in the formation of the Constitution of the 
 United States, and which have been followed 
 down to the present day in the formation of 
 the State Constitutions. There are certain 
 principles which have never been declared in 
 any better form, and never can be. Where 
 such is Ihe case, I am in favor of following 
 such precedents. The Constitution of the 
 United States has a clause equivalent to this, 
 declaring the rights therein contained to be 
 inherent rights in the people, and I hope to 
 see it incorporated into our Gbnstitution. 
 
 The question was taken on the motion to 
 strike out, and it was lost: 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move to amend the 
 section by striking out " and" where it first 
 occurs and inserting "or." 
 
 The amendment was adopted. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I now move to strike 
 out the word "meet" and to insert in lieu 
 thereof the word " confront." 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I move to amend the 
 amendment, so as to make that particular 
 clause read " and to be confronted with the 
 "witnesses against him." 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. That would give the 
 accused the right to be confronted, but not to 
 confront. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I doubt whether that 
 amendment conveys the meaning intended by 
 the committee which reported this bUl, or 
 which we wish to conve}^, for this clause is in 
 favor of the accused, and of his liberty to 
 meet and confront, and hot for giving the State 
 the liberty to confront him. It is his right to 
 show by counter evidence that the things 
 alleged against him are not true, and that is 
 the right we intend to secure to him. But a 
 provision "to be confronted" is for the ben- 
 efit of the accuser and not for the accused. 
 The State always has that right. We do not 
 want to enlarge the powers of the govern- 
 ment, but we are legislating for the largest 
 liberty of the party accused. 
 
 Nott' I doubt whether we, as a body, can 
 improve any one of those clauses reported by 
 the committee, and unless error is clearly 
 apparent upon the first flush, we had better 
 not meddle with them. First impressions are 
 generally the best. I consider this Bill of 
 
 Rights something like the bills of fare laid 
 upon our dinner tables — not the dinner itself, 
 but only as foreshadowing what it may be. 
 It may cover all or more. Now is there a 
 gentleman in this Convention, who docs not 
 believe just what this sixth section contains 
 as it stands? Is there a gentleman who be- 
 lieves that excessive bail should be required ; 
 excessive fines imposed ; or unusual punish- 
 ments inflicted? Is there a man who believes 
 ; that the accused should not be heard by him- 
 ; self or counsel ; that he should not have the 
 nature of the accusation made known to him ; 
 I that he should not have the privilege of meet- 
 j ing the witnesses face to face ; and that he 
 ; should not have compulsory process to com- 
 I pel the attendance of witnesses? There is 
 I nothing that we can do, but what other per- 
 sons may and mil find fault with. Our 
 labors may be, and will be imperfect, after 
 we expend all our wisdom upon them, but 
 because a thing is imperfect, it is no reason 
 why it should be stricken out entirely. I 
 believe the meaning is conveyed more per- 
 fectly by the word "confront" than by the 
 words " to be confronted," and I shall vote 
 accordingly. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I believe the gentleman 
 from Fillmore county [Mr. Billings] miscon- 
 ceives the meaning of Ae words used. I 
 refer here again to the Constitution of the 
 United States, framed by wiser heads than 
 ours, and I find the language there used the 
 same as that proposed by the gentleman from 
 Rice county [Mr. Perkins] — "to be confronted 
 with the witnesses against him." What does 
 that mean ? It means that when a charge is 
 made against any person, he may demand 
 that the government shall bring the witnesses 
 before his face, and that they shall there, in 
 his presence and under his eye, make the 
 charge against him — not that he shall have 
 permission to go off somewhere to meet them, 
 but that the government shall bring those wit- 
 nesses into his presence. 
 
 What is the idea conveyed by the sentence 
 as it stands — " to meet the witness face to 
 Xace ? " What witnesses ? For or against 
 him? 
 
 Suppose the word "confront" is used, 
 what is the meaning then ? Of itself it means 
 face to face, and you have a repetition of the 
 same thing in the same sentence. 
 
MINNESOTA COXVENTIOX DEBATES— Fkidat, Jlly 24. 
 
 108 
 
 The provision proposed, cuts off the right 
 of introducing depositions upon criminal tri- 
 als. In civil cases it is well known, that if 
 the attendance of witnesses is inconvenient, 
 their depositions can be taken, imder certain 
 restrictions of law. But the provision that 
 he shall be confronted with the witnesses 
 against him, compels the government to bring 
 the witnesses bodily into the presence of the 
 accused. I believe that no language can be 
 used which more clearly expresses the idea, 
 than the language proposed by the gentle- 
 man from Rice county. 
 
 I do not wish to pick flaws in the report, 
 but the object of the Convention, sitting in 
 committee of the Whole, is to perfect the 
 matters which the committees report, accord- 
 ing to the best of their present knowledge 
 and ability. 
 
 Mr. LYLE. I do not see any particular 
 necessity of altering the language of this 
 section. It says " to meet the witnesses face 
 to face." Now those are the witnesses 
 against him, of course. Then it goes on to 
 state that he shall have compulsory process 
 to compel the attendance of witnesses in liis 
 behalf. It seems very plain to me, and I do 
 not think it necessary to discuss such small 
 matters. I hope we shall proceed at once 
 and dispose of the subject. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I rise to express my 
 opinion in favor of the substitute offered by 
 the gentleman from Rice county. It is in 
 the exact language of a clause in the Consti- 
 tution of the United States. I have a par- 
 ticular regard for that instrument and for its 
 language; and I believe that nearly every 
 Convention which has heretofore formed a 
 State Constitution, has adopted that language. 
 I hope the substitute will be adopted. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. It seems to me that 
 gentlemen upon the other side of the House 
 have misinterpreted the language I propose 
 ta employ. One gentleman says it is a very 
 different thing to " confront" or " to be con- 
 fronted by." But the language I propose to 
 use is " to be confronted with the witnesses 
 against him." The words " to meet the wit- 
 nesses face to fiice" are meaningless in my 
 opinion, and would lead to difSculties in their 
 practical application. The language, taken 
 from the Constitution of the United States 
 expresses just the idea gentiemen desire. It 
 
 ' is as significant as any language that can pos- 
 sibly be employed, and is beyond quibble as 
 to its meaning. 
 
 The question was taken on Mr. Peekixs' 
 substitute, and it was adopted. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. I move that the com- 
 mittee rise report progress and ask leave to 
 sit again. 
 
 The motion was lost. 
 
 Mr. SEC0:MBE. I move to amend in the 
 seventh line, by inserting after the word 
 " behalf," the words, " to have the assistance 
 of counsel for his defense." 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I really cannot see 
 the necessity of such an amendment. In the 
 first two lines, the accused is guaranteed the 
 assistance of counsel. The language is — " in 
 " all criminal prosecutions the accused shall 
 " enjoy the right to be heard by himself or 
 " counsel." Now why renew the guarantee in 
 the same section? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The first provision, it 
 seems to me, is simply a provision that in all 
 criminal prosecutions, the accused shall be 
 notified, and have the privilege of making a 
 defence ; but the provision I propose to insert 
 is of a different nature entirely. The first 
 provision leaves it optional with him whether 
 he wiU be heard personally or by counsel. 
 I propose to insert a provision to the effect 
 that he shall have the assistance of coimsel. 
 For instance, a prisoner appears before the 
 bar without comisel ; the court demands of 
 him if he has counsel for his defence ; he has 
 none ; it then becomes the duty of the gov- 
 ernment to furnish him with counsel, and not 
 take advantage of his poverty or inability to 
 procure counsel. The government not only 
 pays the district attorney for prosecuting him, 
 but it binds the government to furnish counsel 
 for the defence. 
 
 And here again we have the sanction, and 
 not only the sanction, but the binding force 
 of the Constitution of the United States, for 
 we have to frame a Constitution which does 
 not conflict with the Constitution of the United 
 States; and one of the provisions of that 
 Constitution is that every individual under the 
 government of the United States shall have 
 the assistance of coimsel for his defence. We 
 are bound to protect citizens in the rights 
 which are given to them by the Federal 
 Constitution. 
 
104 
 
 MIXNESOTxV CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, July 24. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I move to amend the 
 amendment last offered, by stiiking it out 
 and inserting in the place of it a comma after 
 the word " behalf." That may seem trivial 
 but it is not. If I understan i the gentle- 
 man's argument, it is based upon mercy to the 
 accused, and he conceives, in his generosity, 
 that the government should furnish every 
 criminal veith an attorney. Oases of assault 
 and battery, and other trivial offences before 
 a justice of the peace, are criminal proceed- 
 ings, but who before ever conceived it the 
 duty of the government to furnish coimsel to 
 defend in such cases ? Now it occurrs to me 
 that if you insert a comma where I have pro- 
 posed, and let each part of the sentence re- 
 fer to its own subject, that will be sufficient 
 for all purposes. We ought not to bind the 
 incoming State, in all future time, to keep in 
 each county or each district, imder the juris- 
 diction of a justice of the peace, an officer 
 whose business it shall be to attend to the de- 
 fence of all matters of a criminal nature. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. If I had not a material 
 object in view, I would accept the gentleman's 
 amendment. But the poor, unfortunate 
 criminal would very unwillingly accept, in 
 place of the defence which I propose he shall 
 have, the comma proposed by the g-entleman. 
 Mr. BILLINGS. Will the gentlemen give 
 me the difference in most cases between an 
 attorney and a comma? The one is fre- 
 quently only a longer pause than the other. 
 (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The gentleman from 
 Fillmore, [Mr. Billings] is an attorney him- 
 self, I believe, and perhaps he has only been 
 giving a righteous judgment, and I find no 
 fault with it. (Laughter.) I know what the 
 Constitution of the United States says, and 
 it is, that in all criminal prosecutions the 
 accused shall have the assistance of counsel 
 for his defence, and I propose that the Consti- 
 tution of this State shall adopt the same 
 language ; and if in the Constitution of the 
 United States it means that criminals shall 
 have that defence in justice's courts, then it 
 will mean the same in our Constitution. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I wiU ask the gentle- 
 man from St. Anthony to withdraw his 
 amendment and permit me to offer a sub- 
 stitute for the whole section in the words of 
 the Constitution. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I will do so. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. Then I ofier the follow- 
 ing substitute for the whole section : 
 
 " In all criminal prosecutions the accused shall 
 enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial by an 
 impartial jury of the county or district wherein the 
 crime shall have been committed, which county 
 or district shall have been previously ascertained 
 by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause 
 of the accusation^ to be confronted with the wit- 
 nesses against him ; to have compulsorj' process 
 for obtaining witnesses in his behalf, and to have 
 the assistance of counsel for his defence." 
 
 I know of no better language than that of 
 the Constitution of the United States, in which 
 to express the idea we wish to convey. 
 
 Ml-. BILLINGS. I now offer a substitute 
 for the substitute. Strike out all after the 
 word, "criminal" and insert the following: 
 
 " Cases involving the life, limb or liberty of an 
 individual, the accused shall have the right to a 
 speedy and public trial by an impartial jury ; to be 
 informed of the accusations against him ; to have 
 a copy of the same when demanded ; to meet the 
 witnesses face to face ; to have compulsory process 
 to compel the attendance of witnesses in his be- 
 half : Provided, that nothing in this article shall be 
 so construed as tu afi'ect requisitions from Gover- 
 nors of other States upon the Governor of this 
 State for the rendition of fugitive criminals to the 
 Courts having proper jurisdiction in those States 
 in which such criminals are charged with having 
 committed crimes." 
 
 The substitute for the substitute was re- 
 jected. 
 
 The substitute was then adopted. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I now move that the 
 committee rise, report progress and ask leave 
 to sit again. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. We have agreed to sit 
 here and work. What hinders our sitting 
 here an hour longer ? 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Sec. 8. No person shall be held to answer for a 
 criminal offence unless on the presentment or in- 
 dictment of a grand jury, except in cases of im- 
 peachment, or in cases cognizable by justices of 
 the peace, or arising in the army or navy, or in 
 the militia when in actual service in time of war 
 or public danger, and no person for the same of- 
 fence shall be puttwicein jeopardy of punishment, 
 nor shall be compelled in any criminal clise to be a 
 wiin ss against himself. All persons shall, before 
 conviction, bo bailable by sufficient sureties, except 
 for capital ofllences when the proof is evident or 
 the presumption great ; and the privilege of the 
 writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, un- 
 less when in case of rebellioa or invasion the 
 public safety may require. 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, Jcly 24. 
 
 105 
 
 Mr. STAN'NARD. The word "punish- 
 ment" in that section does not conform to 
 the Constitution of the United States, and I 
 therefore move to strike it out. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move to amend by \ 
 inserting after the word "himself" the words : ; 
 
 " Nor be deprived of life, liberty or property, 
 without due process of law." 
 
 The amendment was adopted. 
 
 Sbc. 9. Every person is entitled to a certain 
 remedy in the laws for all injuries or wrongs which 
 he may receive in his person, property or charac- 
 ter ; he ought to obtain justice freely, and without 
 being obliged to purchase it; completely and 
 without denial, promptly and without delay, con- 
 formably to the laws. 
 
 Mr. LYLE. I move as a substitute for 
 that section the following : 
 
 " Every person shall be entitled to a remedy for 
 all injuries and wrongs which he may receive in his 
 person, property, or character, without delay con- 
 formably to law." , 
 
 The substitute was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I move to amend by strik- 
 ing out all the section after the word " charac- 
 ter." The latter part seems to be a repetition 
 of the idea of the former part. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. It seems to me that the 
 whole section is unnecessary . We have already 
 declared that men have certain inherent rights, 
 among which are life, liberty and the pursuit 
 of happiness ; and to secure those rights gov- 
 ernments are instituted among men, deriving ' 
 their just powers from the consent of the 
 governed. If these are inherent rights and 
 governments are instituted to secure them, 
 does it not follow as a natural presiunption 
 that persons are entitled to a remedy if de- 
 prived of those rights ? 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I move to strike out the 
 words " being obliged to" and the word " it," 
 so that it shall read " he ought to obtain jus- 
 " tice freely and without purchase, completely 
 " and without denial" &c. 
 
 The amendment was adopted. 
 
 Sec. 10. Treason against the State shall consist 
 only in levying war against the same or in adhering 
 to its enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No 
 person shall be convicted of treason unless on the 
 testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, 
 or on confession in open court. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I think that section should 
 remain as it is. For one, I am in fiivor of 
 14 
 
 having treason defined as it is in this section, 
 and so I think every man in this Convention 
 will, when he remembers that charges of trea- 
 son are made against us, and we are liable to 
 swing for it. (Laughter.) I think treason 
 should only consist in levying war against the 
 State, and in adhering to the enemy and giv- 
 ing them comfort. I think we have not ad- 
 hered to the enemy, but have separated from 
 them, nor have we given them much comfort. 
 (Laughter.) 
 
 The amendments were proposed and the 
 section was passed over. 
 
 Sec. 11. The right of the people to be secure 
 in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against 
 unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be 
 violated, and no warrant shall issue but upon pro- 
 bable cause supported by oath or affirmation, and 
 particularly describing the place to be searched, 
 and the person or things to be seized. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I move to amend by in- 
 serting after the word " but," the words " on 
 " complaint in writing." 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. The language used in this 
 section is the same that is employed in the 
 Constitution of the United States, and it 
 seems to me to be suflBcient, The Legisla- 
 ture can carry out the provision in detail. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I am opposed to the 
 amendment from the fact that there are cer- 
 tain circumstances in which seiztu-es of persons 
 should be made without the delay which 
 would be necessary to put the facts, warrant- 
 ing the seizure, in writing. Justices of the 
 Peace and Constables are by law now au- 
 thorized instanti to suppress riots, and disperse 
 persons engaged in any unlawful act. That 
 provision should not be interfered with. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BOBBINS. I move to strike out the 
 words "searches and seizures" and insert 
 " search or seizure." 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BOBBINS. I move that the commit- 
 tee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit 
 again. 
 
 The motion was lost 
 
 Sec. 13. No private property shall be taken for 
 public use without just compensation therefor. 
 
 Mr. DULEY. I move to strike out all 
 after the word " no" and insert the following : 
 
 " Man's particular services shall be demanded 
 without just compensation. No man's property 
 shall be taken by law without jnst compensation ; 
 
106 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fkidat, July 24. 
 
 nor except in case of the State, without such com- 
 pensation first assessed and tendered." 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Sec. 14. All lands within the State are declared 
 to be allodial, and feudal tenures are prohibited. 
 Leases and grants of agricultural land for a longer 
 term than fifteen years, in which rent or service of 
 any kind shall be reserved, and all fines and like 
 restraints upon alienation reserved in any grant of 
 land hereafter made, are declared to be void. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS moved to strike out the 
 word " agi'icultural ;" which amendment was 
 agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. This is a section of 
 some considerable importance. I must con- 
 fess that I am not prepared at this time to say 
 whether I am in favor of, or opposed to in- 
 serting it in the Preamble and Bill of Rights. 
 There is a great question involved in this sec- 
 tion, and over which there has been much dis- 
 cussion, and a great deal of dispute in the 
 State of New York, and in some of the other 
 States of this Union. I wish to refresh my 
 memory upon the question involved in it, be- 
 fore I am called upon to vote for or against it. 
 I therefore move that the section be stricken 
 out, and when we go into the House with it, 
 we can restore it, if the Convention sees fit, — 
 and in the mean time members will have an 
 opportunity to investigate it. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the motion wiU 
 not prevail. The gentleman has alluded to 
 difficulties which have existed in the State of 
 New York, anl to the differences of opinion 
 which have existed in that State upon this 
 subject. I presume there has been no differ- 
 ence of opinion about that being an unfortu- 
 nate state of affairs in New York, which has 
 arisen out of a state of things which is in- 
 tended to be prevented in this State by this 
 section. In the State of New York there 
 was something like feudal tenures, and if the 
 question now was, whether we should insert 
 a provision in the Constitution allowing such 
 tenures, I should be in favor of the gentle- 
 man's motion. But we wish to avoid the 
 difficulties they have had in New York, and 
 therefore I am in favor of the clause remain- 
 ing where it is. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. The fact that this is a 
 very important question induces mc at thi^ 
 time to move to strike it out, and then at some 
 future time when we shall have a full Con- 
 vention, we can move to insert it again. We 
 
 all know that we have but few members here, 
 and I want to hear the questions involved in 
 this section fully discussed in committee of 
 the Whole at some future time, when each 
 member will have the opportunity of speaking 
 as many times as he desires. If we pass it 
 by now, it comes up in the Convention upon 
 the adoption of it, and then we shall each of 
 us be entitled to speak only fifteen minutes. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I do not believe there is 
 a member of the Convention who will oppose 
 the insertion of this article in the Constitu- 
 tion, and I do not believe there is any neces- 
 sity for any body to speak fifteen minutes 
 upon it. It may be desirable to make some 
 amendments to it. I have not myself given 
 it any particular attention. It may not be in 
 the best form now, but that there will be any 
 objection to it I do not believe. 
 
 The question was taken upon the motion 
 to strike out, and it was decided in the nega- 
 tive. • 
 
 Mr. BIILLINGS. I move to strike out 
 the word " fifteen " and insert " fifty." 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Sec. 16. No person shall be imprisoned for 
 debt arising out of or founded upon any contract 
 express or implied. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I move to amend that section 
 by adding at the end thereof the words " un- 
 "less in case of fraud." 
 
 I suppose the section as it now stands 
 * meets the ideas of gentlemen here. But it is 
 apparent that there are some gross cases of 
 fraud in (f&ntracts that ought to be punished, 
 and we ought not to place it out of the power 
 of the Legislature to provide punishment in 
 such cases. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I presume it was the 
 intention of the committee which made this 
 report, to provide for what the amendment 
 provides. But it seems to me they did not 
 do it. It says " no person shall be imprisoned 
 " for debt arising out of or founded upon any 
 " contract expressed or implied," no matter 
 what fraudulent circumstances there might 
 be connected with that debt. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Sec. 17. The right of the debtor to enjoy the 
 necessary comforts of life shall be recognized by 
 wholesome laws, exempting a reasonable amount 
 of property from seizure or sale for the payment 
 of any debt or liability hereafter contracted. 
 
 Mr. LYLE. The subject of this section 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, July 24. 
 
 107 
 
 properly belongs to the committee on Exemp- 
 tions of Real and Personal Estate, and inas- 
 much as that committee have made a report 
 covering this whole ground, I move to strike 
 the section out. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I hope the motion will 
 not prevail. I am in favor of inserting in the 
 Conititution a homestead exemption clause, 
 but I am not in favor of a clause covering 
 the whole ground, and leaving nothing for the 
 Legislature. I have been the advocate of a 
 homestead exemption law for many years, but 
 there are others in this Convention and out of 
 it who differ with me as to the amount of 
 exemption. For this reason I would not 
 endanger the adoption of our Constitution by 
 inserting in it, an unnecessary clause, which 
 might cause many to vote against it, who 
 would otherwise vote for it. I think, under 
 the circumstances, that this is a matter which 
 we ought to take into consideration. There 
 are many things which I would insist on hav- 
 ing inserted in the Constitution, were it not 
 for the peculiar circumstances by which we 
 are surrounded, which I vnQ. not now insist 
 upon ha\Tng in that instrument. I think all 
 of us should be governed by the same spirit. 
 I think all we are called upon now to do, is to 
 provide that the Legislature shall have power 
 to frame an exemption law. Then let that 
 question go into the next canvass, and mem- 
 bers of the next Legislature will be elected in 
 reference to it. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I agree with the gentle- 
 man from Winona [Mr. Balcombe] that we 
 better insert in the Constitution such a 
 general clause as this, in preference to the 
 more lengthy and particular provisions of the 
 report of the committee on Exemptions. We 
 should do it not only as a matter of policy, 
 but as a matter of principle. I do not be- 
 lieve it is the province of a Constitutional 
 Convention to legislate in detail. They 
 should only lay down genei-al principles upon 
 which the Legislature shall proceed, and by 
 which they shall be governed. As the sec- 
 tion now stands it imposes upon the Legisla- 
 ture the necessity of making laws upon the 
 subject. It says the right of the debtor to 
 enjoy the necessary comforts of life, shall be 
 recognized by wholesome laws. It leaves to 
 the Legislature to say what the amount of 
 exemption shall be. I believe it is a proper 
 
 provision in the proper place, and therefore 
 hope it will be suffered to remain. 
 
 Mr. LYLE. I think it was entirely unne- 
 cessary to appoint a committee on Exemption 
 if that committee was to have nothing to do — 
 if its duties could all be performed by the 
 committee on the Preamble and Bill of Rights. 
 I deemed it very necessary that such a com- 
 mittee should be appointed, and also that a 
 clause should be inserted in the Constitution 
 guarding the rights of the debtor, and also a 
 clause guarding the rights of married women. 
 
 I think they should be protected by the 
 Constitution, and not be left to the caprice of 
 the Legislature. I think we shall get more 
 votes for the Constitution if we insert in it 
 the report of the committee on Exemption of 
 Real Estate &c., than we shall with only this 
 provision in it. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I hope the clause will 
 remain as it is. It is a simple declaration of 
 what we, as a body, are ready to start out 
 upon in reference to this question. It is 
 recognized by the community at large as a 
 legitimate subject of legislation. I am in 
 favor of leaving it as it is. Then I am in 
 favor of a good wholesome exemption law, 
 and I hope that we as a Republican party 
 will adopt that as our creed. I happen to be 
 somewhat acquainted with the rural portions 
 of our Territory, and I know that the popu- 
 lar sentiment is in favor of such a law. But 
 I do not think this is the proper time to dis- 
 cuss the details of such a law. When the 
 report of the committee on Exemption shall 
 come under discussion I shall be ready to 
 offer an amendment enlarging the provisions 
 there recommended, to a considerable extent. 
 
 The motion to strike out was lost. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. It is now six o'clock. I 
 I move that the committee rise, report pro- 
 gress and ask leave to sit again. 
 
 The motion was lost. 
 
 Ml'. BILLINGS. I move to amend by 
 inserting between the words "wholesome" 
 and "laws" the word "exemption" and to 
 strike out the remainder of the section. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I now move that the 
 committee rise, report progress, and ask leave 
 to sit again. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 So the committee rose, and the President 
 
108 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satuedat, July 25. 
 
 having resumed the chair, the Chairman 
 reported progress and asked leave to sit 
 again. 
 
 Leave was granted. 
 
 And then on motion of Mr. PERKINS, 
 the Convention adjourned. 
 
 TWELFTH DAY. 
 
 Satuedat, July 25, 1857. 
 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. m. 
 
 No quorum being present, on motion of Mr. 
 BILLINGS, a call of the Convention was 
 ordered. 
 
 The Clerk proceeded to call the roll when 
 thirty members answered to their names. 
 
 A quorum being present all further pro- 
 ceedings under the call were dispensed with. 
 
 The journal of yesterday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS oflFered the following reso- 
 lution, which was read, considered and agreed 
 to: 
 
 " Besolved, That the use of this Hall be granted 
 to the Rev. Dr. Roberts, of the Reformed Presby- 
 terian Church of Iowa, for the purpose of holding 
 Divine service in the same on to-morrow the 26th 
 instant." 
 
 WISH OF THE PEOPLE TO BECOME A STATE. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I offer the following 
 resolution : 
 
 Whereas, It has been determined by the as- 
 piring leaders of the Democratic party to prevent, 
 if possible, the immediate admission of Minnesota 
 into the Union of States as a sovereign and inde- 
 pendent State ; and whereas it is our belief that 
 nearly every citizen of this Territory is in favor of 
 an immediate admission as possible, therefore be 
 it— 
 
 Besolved, That we recommend that the citizens 
 of this Territory hold meetings in their respective 
 precincts or counties, without distinction of party, 
 and express by resolutions their desire upon this 
 important question." 
 
 I do not propose Mr. President, to press 
 the adoption of this resolution to-day. I of- 
 fer it now that it may lay over under the rule 
 and come up in the regular order of business 
 on Monday, at which time, with the permis- 
 sion of the Convention, I propose to make 
 some remarks upon it, showing that it is the 
 design of the leaders of the Democratic party 
 to put every obstacle in the way of the ime- 
 diate admission of Minnesota into the Union, 
 and I mean to show this by their actions and 
 by their words. 
 
 The resolution was laid over under the rule, 
 
 COMMITTEE ON LEAVE OF ABSENCE. 
 
 The PRESIDENT appointed Messrs. Col- 
 BUEN, Davis and Duley as the members of 
 the committee on Leave of Absence, ordered 
 yesterday. 
 
 On motion of Mr. BOBBINS, the Conven- 
 tion resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole upon the report of the committee on 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, (Mr. Colbuen 
 in the Chair.) 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move that the commit- 
 tee now rise. I believe only nine members 
 voted in favor of the committee of the Whole, 
 and seven against it. I believe we are with- 
 out a quorum and I make the motion to as- 
 certain that fact. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The committee accordingly rose, and the 
 President having resumed the Chair, Mr. 
 SECOMBE moved that there be a call of the 
 House. 
 
 A call of the House was ordered, and the 
 roll being called twenty -nine members (not a 
 quorum) answered to their names. 
 
 The Sergeant-at-Arms was directed to bring 
 in the absentees. 
 
 After a few minutes, — 
 
 Mr. BOBBINS moved that all further pro- 
 ceedings under the call be dispensed with. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 And then on motion of Mr. SECOMBE the . 
 Convention adjourned until Monday morning 
 at nine o'clock. 
 
 THIRTEENTH DAY. 
 
 Monday, July 27, 1857. 
 
 The Convention met at 9 o'clock, a. m. 
 
 Prayer by the Chaplain^ Rev. E. D. Neill. 
 
 The journal of Saturday was read and 
 approved. 
 
 The following resolution, laid over from 
 Saturday, coming up in the regular order of 
 business, viz : 
 
 " Whereas, It has been determined by the 
 aspiring leaders of the Democratic Party to pre- 
 vent, if possible, the immediate admission of Min- 
 nesota into the Union of States as a sovereign and 
 independent State ; and 
 
 " Whereas, It is our belief that nearly every citi 
 zen of this Territory is in favor of as immediate 
 admission as possible ; therefore be it 
 
 "Besolved, That we recommend that the citizens 
 of this Territory hold meetings in their respective 
 precincts or counties without distinction of party. 
 
MINNESOTA CONTFA'TION DEBATES— Mosoat, July 27. 
 
 109 
 
 and express by resolves their desires upou this 
 important question." 
 
 On motion of Mr. CLEGHORN, the same 
 was laid upon the table until to-morrow. 
 
 PREAJIBLE AXD BILL OF BIGHTS. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I move that tlie Conven- 
 tion proceed to the consideration of the report 
 of the committee, pn the Preamble and Bili of 
 Rights. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I understand that that 
 bill is yet in committee of the Whole. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The bill is out of com- 
 mittee every time the committee reports to 
 the Convention. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. I believe the committee 
 did not ask leave to sit again. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I now move that the Con- 
 vention resolve itself mto a committee of the 
 "Whole on the Preamble and Bill of Rights. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The Convention accordingly resolved itself 
 into a committee of the Whole (Mr. Stax- 
 NARD in the chair,) and resumed the consider- 
 ation of the report of the committee on the 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights, commencing 
 where the committee last left oflf, being section 
 eighteen, as follows : 
 
 " The right of every man to worship God 
 according to the dictates of his own conscience 
 shall never be infringed ; nor shall any man be 
 compelled to attend, erect or support any place of 
 worship, or to maintain any ministry against his 
 consent. Xor shall any control of or interference 
 with the rights of conscience be permitted, or any 
 preference be given by law to any religious estab- 
 lisement or mode of worship. Nor shall any 
 money be drawn from the Treasury for the benefit 
 of religious societies, or religious or theological 
 seminaries." 
 
 . Mr. MORGAN. I move to amend by in- 
 serting before the word "ministry," the words 
 "religious or ecclesiastical." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Skc. 2-3. Every law enacted by the Legislature 
 shall embrace but one object, and that shall be 
 expressed in the title. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move to amend the 
 section by striking out the word "object' 
 and inserting " subject." 
 
 The amendment was adopted. 
 
 Sec. 24. Any citizen of this State who shall, 
 after the adoption of this Constitution, fight a duel 
 with deadly weapons, or send or accept a challenge 
 to fight a duel with deadly weapons, either within 
 this State or out of it, or who shall act as second, 
 
 or knowingly aid or assist in any manner those 
 thus oflFending, shall be deprived of holding any 
 oflice of profit or trust under this State. 
 
 Mr. MILLS. I move to strike out the 
 whole of that section and insert in lieu thereof 
 the following : 
 
 "Duelling is an evil and shall never be allowed 
 in this State." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the amendment 
 will not prevail. It seems to me that there is 
 no better way of preventing the evils of duel- 
 ing than that proposed in the section as it is 
 reported from the committee, and I am very 
 much in favor of it. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I am in favor of the 
 amendment. I am in general opposed to 
 attaching any punishment to any crime be- 
 yond that which the court which convicts the 
 individual may inflict. The court before 
 which the accused is tried, knows the circum- 
 stances under which the crime was committed, 
 and therefore knows better than anybody else 
 the punishment it deserves. The court, 
 therefore, is the proper tribunal to inflict pun- 
 ishment. This legislating in our Constitution, 
 and saying that in every case of a certain 
 ofifence, there shall be, so to speak, a revision- 
 ary punishment, which shall attach, is wrong. 
 We can probably all say, and I can say, that 
 I believe that dueling is always wrong, but 
 there are times and circumstances when the 
 wrong, if not justifiable, is certainly an 
 excusable wrong. 
 
 Another thing : wrong or right, the provis- 
 ion will be got around in some way. There 
 are times and circumstances in which men 
 will fight duels. Take, for instance, the case 
 of the present Governor of Illinois, Mr. 
 Bissell. He sent a challenge. Who blamed 
 liim for it ? The citizens of his own State 
 took him up and elected him Governor. Who 
 believes he was wrong in the course he took ? 
 He believed it was his duty to do as he did, 
 and he made the champion of States' rights 
 in the south " crawfish," — to use an expres- 
 sive phrase. He did a good work for the 
 Free State party. He showed southern men 
 that they could not abuse Free State men 
 vrith impunity, and he gave a check to the 
 growing opinion of the South that Free State 
 men were cowards, and hiding themselves 
 vmder the plea of morality, would not fight. 
 That case has made a great many Southern 
 
110 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 27. 
 
 Congressmen cautious how they challenge 
 Northern men. 
 
 Again, take the case of Burlingame and 
 Brooks. Shall we attach an eternal punish- 
 ment to such an act as that of Burlingame's ? 
 Shall we go beyond the punishment which 
 the court might inflict in such a case as that? 
 I am opposed to it, and I would not have 
 this Convention anticipate all cases. I should 
 not wonder if there were times when the most 
 moral and religious of men in this Conven- 
 tion should justify what this section condemns. 
 Circumstances might compel them to, and 
 hence I would not inflict such a punishment 
 for such an offence. Let such cases take 
 care of themselves, for we have no fighting 
 men among us, and hence no necessity of this 
 provision. 
 
 But I said such a provision would be 
 evaded. In the State of Illinois their Consti- 
 tution forbids dueling, and how did they get 
 along with BisselFs case? Why they said 
 he was not at the time a citizen of the State, 
 • — being out of it at the time — and therefore 
 not a violation of the law. I think that was 
 a quibble myself; but it shows that people 
 will get around the provision one way or 
 another. When does a man fight in his own 
 State ? It is almost the uniform practice to 
 go outside of the State. But why select out 
 this crime, as though it were the most henious 
 of all crimes, and provide for it punislmient 
 in the Constitution ? Why not put in some- 
 thing about murder, polygamy, or many other 
 crimes ? I hope the amendment will be 
 adopted. It is true such a provision has been 
 incorporated in the Constitutions of some 
 other States, but that is no reason why we 
 should follow their example. We should use 
 our own judgment, and not follow because 
 others have taken the lead. It may be well 
 to look to precedents, and] to look well before 
 we depart from them, but I am not in favor 
 of this provision. 
 
 Mr. BOBBINS. I move a substitute for 
 the substitute, and that is to strike out of 
 the original section all after the word " offend- 
 ing," and insert in lieu thereof the words, 
 
 "Shall bo subject to such punishment aa the 
 liegislature shall determine by law." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I am opposed to this section 
 in this place. The Bill of Rights does not seem 
 to me to be the proper place for inserting a code 
 
 of punishment for offences. Pimishment for 
 crimes are usually contained in the statutes, 
 and not in the Constitution. There are many 
 worse offences than dueling, and to say that 
 a man who has either fought a duel, or has 
 been connected with one, shall be forever 
 disqualified for holding office, is going a good 
 ways. A man may be guilty of manslaugh- 
 ter, or highway robberry, and be in State 
 prison as a punishment for the offence, yet if 
 he is pardoned out one day before the expira- 
 tion of his sentence, he is restored to all his 
 civil rights ; but a man who has been con- 
 nected in any way with a duel, cannot, if this 
 section is adopted, be restored to his civil 
 nghts without a change of the Constitution. 
 
 I object to this placing in the BUI of Rights 
 so many tilings which are so foreign to its 
 object. The Bill of Rights is a statement of 
 certain rights and privileges which are to be 
 forever assured to the people of the State, 
 and it is never supposed that it will treat in 
 detail of the punishment of this or that 
 offence. The matter of punishment of crimes 
 is a proper subject of legislation, and there it 
 should be left. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I must say that I am 
 opposed to the section entirely, and I think it 
 better to strike it out wholly, than to adopt 
 the amendment or substitute. At the same 
 time I am as much opposed to dueUng as any 
 man, but cases have arisen when it was almost 
 absolutely necessary for a man to stand up to 
 his rights, even to the extent of fighting a 
 duel. I know the Governor of Illinois, [Mr. 
 Bissell], and when he sent that challenge to 
 the arch nuUifier of Mississippi, there was 
 not a citizen of Illinois who was not proud of 
 Governor Bissell, and not until he was nomi- 
 nated tor Governor, was the matter even re- 
 garded in other than the most approving light. 
 
 I think we had better leave the matter with 
 the Legislature. If we put all of these things 
 into this report, we shall have something 
 entirely different from the Bill of Rights. If 
 the gentleman will move to strike out the 
 whole section I will vote for it. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. I wiU, with the consent 
 of the Convention, withdraw my substitute. 
 
 The amendment offered by Mr. Mills 
 was then agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to strike out the 
 whole section as amended. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 27. 
 
 Ill 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I rise to a point of order. 
 The Convention have just determined that the 
 section shall remain in a certain shape, and it 
 cannot be in order to strike it out. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN thinks the point of order 
 well taken, and that the motion is not admis- 
 sible. 
 
 Sbc. 25. The criminal code shall be founded on 
 principles of reformation, and not of yindictive 
 jnstice. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I move to strike out that 
 section. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 Sec. 27. The blessings of a free government 
 can only be maintained by a firm adherence to 
 justice, moderation, temperance frugality and vir- 
 tue, and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental 
 principles. 
 
 Mr. SECO^klBE. I move to strike out that 
 section. There is nothing in it I disagree 
 with, but it seems to me that it is a simple 
 dissertation ; that it does not entmciate any- 
 right of the people ; and therefore ought not 
 to be incorporated in the Bill of Rights. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. Our proceedings in dis- 
 posing of this report, reminds me of the boy 
 with the dnun, who, not exactly understand- 
 ing where the music came from, deemed it 
 his duty to pull it to pieces, supposing that 
 he should find something inside that would 
 explain the matter. Here gentlemen say 
 they have no objection to certain principles ; 
 that they believe they are true, but yet are 
 in favor of striking out the section containing 
 them. Look at section twenty -fifth which we 
 have stricken out : " The Criminal Code shall 
 "be founded on principles of reformation, 
 " and not of vindictive justice." Is not that 
 a truism? Is there a man here who does not 
 believe the principles there asserted? And 
 am I not justified in saying tliat those who 
 voted " aye" say that it shall be formed upon 
 principles of vindictive justice ? I say it is 
 better to affirm and re-affirm a good principle, 
 than by striking it out, to leave it without 
 affirmation. Now this section declares that 
 " the blessings of a free government can only 
 " be maintained by a firm adherence to jus- 
 " tice, moderation, temperance, frugality and 
 " virtue, and by a frequent recurrence to fun- 
 " damental principles." That is true ; those 
 principles underlie all good governments and 
 all good societies. The characteristics which 
 distinguish a good citizen, characterize a good 
 
 government. TThat is good for a man in his 
 individual capacity — those virtues which he 
 should nourish as an individual, are good for 
 the state and for communities. Now will it 
 do any harm to say that these private virtues 
 should be carried out in our government? 
 Why we might as well say that the whole Bill 
 of Riehts is surplusage, and move to strike 
 it all out at once. I say strike out every 
 other clause, but leave me this 27th section. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I desire to say, in expla- 
 nation, that I do not consider that when I 
 vote to strike out a section, I am denying the 
 principles that are therein set forth. This is 
 not a bill of principles and doctrines that we 
 have under consideration, but a declaration 
 of rights which we believe belong to the citi- 
 zens of this State. 
 
 As the gentleman has referred to section 
 twenty-five, I will say, that this and that 
 section differ materially. That section, as it 
 stood before it was stricken out, did enunci- 
 ate a right, and that was, that no person 
 should be punished imder a criminal code 
 which was formed upon principles of vindic- 
 tive justice. But it was the pleasure of the 
 committee to strike that out. But section 
 twenty-seven enunciates no right or privilege, 
 but merely a general principle which no one 
 will dispute. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I hope the motion to strike 
 out will not prevail. It is certainly true that 
 in this article proposed to be incorporated in 
 our Constitution we not only assert a feet, 
 but declare to the world what are the prin- 
 ciples upon which we base oiur Constitution. 
 This section, in a short and comprehensive 
 maimer, enumerates some of those principles, 
 and it seems to me proper that in summing 
 up this Bill of Rights, that this final section 
 should be incorporated in it. 
 
 The motion to strike out was lost. 
 Mr. MORGAN. Will it be proper now to 
 refer back to section twenty-two ? 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. It will if there is no 
 objection. The chair hears no objection. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. Section twenty-two reads 
 as follows : 
 
 "Xo lottery shall ever be authorized by this 
 State, and the buying and selling of lottery tick- 
 ets is hereby prohibited." 
 
 Now I move to strike out all after the word 
 '' State," and my reason for the amendment 
 
112 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 27. 
 
 is that the first part of the section is in the 
 nature of a prohibition upon the Legislature, 
 and as such very properly in this Bill of 
 Rights ; but the second part is a matter of 
 legislation merely, and should be left to the 
 control of that body. It is departing from 
 all correct principle to enact a law in the Bill 
 of Rights. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I move to add the fol- 
 lowing section : 
 
 " Sec. — . To guard against transgressions of 
 the high powers which we have delegated, we de- 
 clare everything in this article is excepted out of 
 the general powers of government, and shall for- 
 ever remain inviolate, and that all laws contrary 
 thereto, or contrary to this Constitution shall be 
 void." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. It seems to me that such 
 a section would not work very well, as some 
 of our propositions in this Bill of Rights are 
 affirmative and some are negative. It is a 
 very unusual provision, and I must confess I 
 do not see how it can operate. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I do not see the need of 
 a section of this kind. It does not add any 
 particular sanctity or obligation to the Consti- 
 tution. That all enactments of the Legisla- 
 ture, in contravention to this Constitution, 
 shall be void, is certainly a principle which 
 cannot be gainsay ed, and it need not be affirmed 
 and reaffirmed. The acts of the Legislature 
 which conflict with the Constitution must be 
 void, and it seems to me folly to add a sec- 
 tion of that kind. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I certainly am opposed to 
 that amendment, because, as has just been 
 stated, the facts asserted in that section lie at 
 the very foundation of all government. And 
 the idea that the Constitution is above all law 
 is something which needs no affirmation. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS/ My idea of the necessity 
 of this section arose from the fact that we 
 have in this preamble enumerated certain 
 rights as belonging to the people. But there 
 are still remaining with the people a large 
 number of rights which we cannot enume- 
 rate, and to guard those unenumerated rights, 
 I proposed that section. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I think the section has 
 just a contrary effect from what the gentle- 
 man intends. 
 
 The amendment was withdrawn. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I offer the foUowing a3 
 an additional section : 
 
 " Sec. — The enumeration of the foregoing 
 rights shall not be construed to impair or deny 
 others retained by the people." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. That is almost in the very 
 language of the Constitution of the United 
 States, which is in these words : 
 
 " The enumeration in the Constitution of cer- 
 tain rights shall not be construed to deny or dis- 
 parrage others retained by the people." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I move to strike out sec- 
 tion twenty -two from the Bill of Rights. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will put the 
 question if it is not objected to. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I object, as we have already 
 passed over that section. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I move to amend the thir- 
 teenth section. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair wiU enter- 
 tain the motion if there is no objection. 
 
 No objection was made. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I move to add to the sec- 
 tion the words — 
 
 " And the jury or Commissioners assessing the 
 damages shall not take into consideration any ad- 
 vantage which shall result to the owner on account 
 of any improvement for which it was taken." 
 
 I offer the amendment for the folllowing 
 reasons : Where public improvements, such 
 as railroads, pass through the country, they 
 do great injury to the property of individu- 
 als, and in such cases it is customary to ap- 
 point Commissioners or a jury to assess the 
 damages. Now those Commissioners or jury 
 in assessing the damages, take into account 
 the benefit which the individual damaged re- 
 ceives from that railroad or other public im- 
 provement running through his farm. That 
 is unjust. His neighbor by his side, and the 
 whole community around him, are reaping the 
 benefit of that public improvement, as much 
 as he is, and yet he has to pay for the benefit 
 which he receives, while they pay nothing. 
 I think it is palpably WTong. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I hope the amendment will 
 not prevail. It seems to me that it infringes 
 upon the province of the Legislature. It 
 strikes mo that the section as reported by the 
 committee is all that ought to be incorporated 
 into the Constitution. What is just compen- 
 sation ought to be IcfTt to the Legislature to 
 decide. The gentleman says that in assess- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Mosdat, July 27. 
 
 lis 
 
 ing damages, to take into consideration the 
 benefit accruing from the public improvement, 
 is palpably unjust. Now to me it does not 
 appear so. The very fact that juries have 
 decided so, proves to me clearly that it is not 
 palpably vrrong. If that is the custom in aU 
 parts of the coimtry, why the gentleman's 
 amendment settles the question against the 
 custom and sense of the country, — which is 
 itself palpaply wrong. 
 
 At the rate we are going on, it seems to me 
 that we shall infringe upon the legislative pow- 
 er of the government to a very great degree. 
 We are doing more than ought to be done by 
 any Constitutional Convention — ^we axe legis- 
 lating too much in the Constitution. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. The very reasons adduced 
 by gentlemen in favor of leaving this out, are 
 the most cogent reasons for inserting it. 
 Why, it is our duty, as a Constitutional Con- 
 vention, to say what the Legislature shall and 
 shall not do. The very fact that Legislatures 
 have heretofore declared that the benefits de- 
 rived from public improvements, may or shall 
 be taken into accoimt upon the assessment of 
 damages sustained by an individual upon 
 those works, proves that it is necessary to 
 insert such a provision into the Constitution, 
 so that subsequent Legislatures cannot be 
 bought up by these mammoth corporations, 
 which are able to buy every Legislature which 
 ever sat in this Territory. 
 
 A and B, for instance, have farms side by 
 side, and a railroad passes through the coun- 
 try cutting off ten acres of A' s farm. There is 
 the loss of that amount of land to him, and the 
 extra expense of making fences, &c B through 
 whose farm the road does not pass, receives 
 an equal amount of benefit as A. Now when 
 the CoDMnissioners or jury come to assess A's 
 damages, they say to him " your remaining 
 " fifty acres are worth fifteen dollars more per 
 " acre tlian they were before the railroad was 
 " built, and that amounts to seven hundred and 
 "fifty dollars, which must be deducted from 
 *' the damages you received by having the ten 
 *' acres taken for the road." B's form, and all 
 the others go ft«e. Now why should A pay 
 any more than any other person who is equally 
 benefitted ? There is no reason for it, except 
 that these corporations have been base enough 
 and rich enough to buy up the Legislature to 
 make laws that suit their convenience. 
 15 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I am obliged to differ 
 with the gentleman from Winona. I beUeve 
 that the rule he inveighs against is eminently 
 just and equitable, and it has been adopted in 
 all the States. This is the principle. If an 
 individual is benefitted vastly more than he 
 is injured, or if he is benefitted a Uttle more 
 tlian he is injured, he shall not receive the 
 full amount of damages, independent of the 
 benefit ; but that the benefit shall be offset 
 against the damages. But the gentleman 
 says that in the operation of this rule one 
 man is benefitted more than another, and he 
 complains of that result. Tlfet is no new 
 complaint. We read in a very old book of 
 certain laborers, a part of whom commenced 
 laboring with the morning, a part in the 
 middle of the forenoon, others at noon, and 
 others at a late hour of the night, and each of 
 them received the fiiU pay of a day's labor. 
 But the man who commenced in the morning 
 made complaint because the eleventh hour 
 man had been paid as much as he had. But 
 he was rebuked. He had received all that 
 belonged to him, and it was none of his busi- 
 ness if the eleventh hour man had received 
 more. 
 
 The same principle appHes here. A has a 
 farm worth five dollars an acre, and likely to 
 be worth no more for years to come. But a 
 railroad passes through his drm and takes 
 away fifteen acres, and he is thereby deprived 
 of what it is worth, being seventy-five dollars. 
 He should receive compensation for that 
 seventy-five dollars. But by the railroad 
 passing through his farm, the balance, say 
 one hundred acres, is increased in value five 
 dollars an acre. The value is raised by the 
 very act by which he lost the seventy-five 
 dollars. Now the gentleman says there are 
 other fiirmers along the road, but not touch- 
 ing upon it, who consequently lose none of 
 their land, but receive a benefit equal to him 
 through whose £irm the road passes, and 
 therefore they make more than he does. Not 
 that he loses anything ; not that he is injured, 
 but that others make more than he does. 
 Now the increased value of his one hundred 
 acres is five hundred dollars, and deducting 
 from that seventy-five dollars, leaves his bene- 
 fit four hundred and twenty-five dollars by 
 the operation. But says the gentleman, here 
 is his neighbor who makes five hundred 
 
114 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Mondat, Jult 27. 
 
 dollars, and it is unreasonable. It seems to 
 me it is very reasonable, just and right. 
 
 However this may be, it is a proper sub- 
 ject to be left to the determination of the Leg- 
 islature ; and I am willing to leave it to that 
 body to say by what rule of evidence that 
 just compensation shall be arrived at. If it 
 is the opinion of the Legislature that it is just 
 and reasonable that where a public benefit is 
 carried on, a person who holds private prop- 
 erty which is taken for public use, shall 
 receive the full compensation for that property, 
 making no allowance for the benefit he receives, 
 I shall be wilfing to let it go in that way. 
 But I am satisfied that no Legislature would 
 ever make any such rule. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. In this thirteenth section 
 an important principle is laid down, and it is 
 enunciated in almost if not all the Constitu- 
 tions of the severfd States, and is contained 
 in the Constitution of the United States 
 itself, in the words : 
 
 " Nor shall private property be taken for public 
 use without just compensation." 
 
 — I am opposed, however, to the amendment 
 offered by the gentleman from "Winona, be- 
 cause it is, in my opinion, an innovation which 
 ought not to be made. That clause in the 
 Constitution of the United States, and in 
 other States, has received an interpretation by 
 many judicial decisions so that its meaning 
 cannot \>e mistaken. I think the almost uni- 
 versal decision has been that under that 
 clause no private property can be taken with- 
 out just compensation in money. That is, 
 if land has been taken for the public use, the 
 actual value of that land at the time must be 
 paid in money, and you cannot offset the 
 advantage likely to accrue to the property 
 holder from the taking of his property. It 
 has received this definite and precise signifi- 
 cation, and it seems to me the section, as it 
 stands, goes far enough, and that no attempt 
 should be made by us at this time to tie up 
 the hands of the Legislature. The Legisla- 
 ture has the right to say that if the person 
 whose property is taken sets a value upon his 
 property beyond its real value, that the bene- 
 fit which he derives from that public appro- 
 priation of his property may be offset. But 
 that is as far as they have ever had any right 
 to go under this clause of the Constitution. 
 But further than tb&t, it is improper to 
 
 introduce a principle in the Constitution which 
 properly belongs to the legislative department 
 of the Government. Let us take a provision 
 which is already construed by existing judi- 
 cial decisions, and rest content with that. 
 That is the safest course. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I trust the amendment 
 will not be adopted, and my particular reason 
 is that this is not the place for a provision of 
 that kind. I conceive that the amendment 
 partakes strongly of the nature of legislation, 
 and I shall oppose the introduction of any- 
 thing into the Constitution which partakes so 
 strongly of legislation as this does. If it 
 should be incorporated anywhere in that 
 instrument it should be under the head of the 
 rights and privileges of corporations. But I 
 am opposed to it here, and opposed to it else- 
 where in the Constitution. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. For my part, I am in favor 
 of the amendment, because I believe it is 
 founded upon principles of justice and equity. 
 I had prepared a similar amendment myself, 
 though I was not present when the clause 
 was regularly under consideration. It is not 
 just, in my opinion, to take into consideration 
 in such cases, the increased value of the 
 remaining property. I believe that where a 
 public improvement of the kind mentioned is 
 made, and the whole community is benefitted, 
 they should all be compelled to contribute, 
 and I am in favor of inserting that provision 
 here because I think this is the proper place 
 for it, so that no future Legislature can get 
 around the provision. If our Legislatures 
 can be bought up as they have been hereto- 
 fore, it is proper and just that we should put 
 up the bar against their acts. As to this 
 section, without the amendment, having given 
 general satisfaction wherever it has been 
 adopted, I beg leave to differ with gentlemen 
 in that opinion. It may have given general 
 satisfaction to corporations, but it is not true 
 that it has given satisfaction to the farmers, 
 and those who are most likely to be injured 
 by the operation of it. I knew an instance 
 where one man was injured to the amount of 
 hundreds of dollars, and he received a mere 
 nominal compensation for the damages, while 
 his neighbors, who received equal advantage 
 with himself, were not compelled to contribute 
 anything toward the right of way of the road 
 which caused the benefit and the mjury. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, Jclt 27. 
 
 115 
 
 As to this being an innovation, I am fairly 
 sick of hearing that argument brought before 
 this Convention, If we are not able to walk 
 alone let us go home. I take it that we are 
 able to think and act for ourselves, and I do 
 not think it is necessary for us to go back 
 and ascertain what has been heretofore, before 
 we shall decide what we shall do. We are able 
 to decide for ourselves, and let us do it. Let 
 us hear no more of this matter of innovation. 
 
 I favor the amendment and hope it will be 
 adopted, because I believe the community 
 are in favor of it, and because I believe the 
 farmers throughout the country and others 
 holding land will sanction the proceeding of 
 the Convention, should we adopt this amend- 
 ment. Let us show to the farmers that we 
 are not in favor of giving monopolies the 
 power of trampling them vmder foot; and 
 they will show us, in turn, that they will 
 sanction our doings. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I rise not to discuss 
 the question properly before the committee, 
 but to ask a favor of the committee. Yester- 
 day I offered a resolution and gave notice 
 that I should desire to make some remarks 
 upon it to-day. Since I came into the Capi- 
 tol this morning, I have been into the other 
 Hall of this building and have heard a discus- 
 sion going on there in which this resolution 
 was referred to, and before that discussion 
 goes out to the world, I desire that my own 
 remarks upon my own resolution should first 
 appear. To enable me to make those remarks 
 at this time, I ask the fiivor of the committee 
 that they rise and ask leave to sit again. 
 With the consent of the committee, I will 
 make that motion. 
 
 The motion was unanimously agreed to. 
 
 So the committee rose, reported progress 
 and asked leave to sit again. 
 
 Leave was granted. 
 
 On motion of Mr. BALCOMBE, the report 
 of the committee of the Whole was laid upon 
 the table and made the special order for 
 to-day at two o'clock. 
 
 On motion, the rules were then suspended 
 by a two-third vote so far as to enable the 
 Convention to take from the table the resolu- 
 tion offered by Mr. Balcombe, yesterday. 
 
 The preamble and resolution introduced by 
 Mr. Balcombe on Satvuxiay, having been read 
 »s follows : 
 
 Whereas, It has been determined by the aspi- 
 ring leaders of the Democratic party to prevent, if 
 possible, the immediate admission of Minnesota 
 into the Union of States, as a sovereign State, and 
 
 Whereas, It is our belief that nearly every citi- 
 zen of this Territory is in favor of as Immediate 
 an admission as possible, therefore be it 
 
 Besolved, that we recommend that the citizens 
 of this Territory hold meetings in their respective 
 precincts or counties, without distinction of party, 
 and express by resolves their desires upon this 
 important question ; 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE said, [Mr. Wilsos in the 
 Chair] I wish it distinctly understood before 
 I proceed to make any remarks upon the reso- 
 lution before the Convention, that I am not 
 accustomed to making speeches; that I do 
 not rise simply for the purpose of making a 
 speech ; and that as I am not a candidate for 
 the United States Senate, it will not be 
 expected that I shoidd make a three hour's 
 speech. I rise simply to perform what I con- 
 sider to be a duty to my constituents, to my 
 party and to myself. In some respects it is 
 a painful duty ; in others it is a pleasurable 
 (Hie. 
 
 The resolution which I offered on Saturday, 
 distinctly charges upon the leaders of the 
 Democratic party a determination to prevent 
 Minnesota from going into the L'nion as a 
 State, and I promised when I offered it, to 
 prove by their own knowledge, by their own 
 connection with and actions in parliamentary 
 bodies heretofore, that they knew that this 
 Convention had proceeded in a legal and regu- 
 lar manner ; and that the only conclusion any 
 one can come to from their actions, from the 
 assembling of this Convention up to the pres- 
 ent time, is that their object is to defeat the 
 wish of the people, which is to go into the 
 Union as a State immediately. I also prom- 
 ised to prove that the leaders of that party 
 knew before assembling, that they were in a 
 minority in this Convention, and expected 
 that it would proceed to business in the man- 
 ner which it has done. 
 
 The defence they make for their course, 
 will be found in the four following points : 
 First, that the Republicans demanded that 
 all those who presented certificates of election 
 from the proper ofiBcer within the limits of 
 I the proposed State should be permitted to 
 take their seats and be qualified, in accord- 
 ance with the general rule that a certificate i« 
 
115 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 27. 
 
 prima facie evidence which always entitles 
 the possessor to the seat in the first instance. 
 
 I insist that such is the general rule govern- 
 ing all deliberative bodies. That there have 
 been exceptions to the rule, I do not deny. 
 That parties have, in the heat of party strife, 
 seen fit in certain instances, to accomplish 
 certain party ends, to directly violate that 
 rule, I do not deny. But are exceptions to a 
 rule to be followed in preference to the rule 
 itself? No man will contend for that. But 
 an exception to that rule, in the New Jersey 
 case, in the House of Representatives of Con- 
 gress, has been paraded before the public, as 
 an instance of what the rule is. I deny that 
 that case was decided in accordance with the 
 general inile. I insist that it was an excep- 
 tion; and assert that that violation of the 
 general rule did much to bring about the de- 
 feat of the Democratic party, in 1840. In 
 1839, their leaders and members in Congress 
 violated the general rule of parliamenta,ry 
 bodies, and in doing so kept out of their seats 
 in the House of Representatives, members 
 who appeared there with their certificates. 
 That departure from the well known, and 
 general rule, has received the condemnation 
 of the members of all parties, ever since, 
 and will for all time to come. 
 
 I say, sir, that it has been the universal 
 rule to admit members who presented prima 
 facie evidence of election — that is to say, 
 certificates of election from the proper officers 
 in the first instance. Look over the journals 
 of the United States Senate and House of 
 Representatives, and of all the legislatures in 
 the country, and you will not find one instance 
 in twenty where that rule has been departed 
 from. I propose to refer this Convention to 
 the remarks made, and the course taken, in 
 the United States Senate in a case which 
 might be ^considered an extreme case ; and 
 where the general rule might have been 
 set aside with some show of propriety. But 
 even in that instance jt was not set aside. 
 On the sixth day of December, 1852, Hon. 
 Archibald Dixon presented his CTedcntials to 
 the United States Senate, claiming a seat in 
 that body. Objection was made to his being 
 qualified, on the ground that the seat which 
 he claimed was not varnnt, and that there 
 were already two seats filled by Senators from 
 Kentucky . A motion was made to refer the 
 
 matter to a committee. The Senate refused 
 to do it. In that case the Senator came ^-ith 
 with a certificate from the Governor of his 
 State, — ^Q prima facie evidence that he was 
 entitled to a seat in that body. On the other 
 side, it was contended that there was pnma 
 facie evidence that Mr. Meriwether still occu- 
 pied a seat in that body, and that there was 
 no vacancy. The Senate would not refer the 
 matter, but immediately entered upon its con- 
 sideration, and by common consent continued 
 to discuss it untn the claimant was admitted 
 to his seat and sworn in. This was a contest 
 between two who had presented the prima 
 facie evidence — the certificate. Those who 
 spoke in favor of Mr. Dixon's right to a seat 
 presented to the Senate niunerous instances 
 where the certificate of election had been con- 
 sidered pnma fads evidence, and that the 
 Senate had been governed by it in its action. 
 It was declared to have been the univers'cl 
 rule governing the actions of that body, to 
 admit to a seat the man who presented his 
 certificate of election — one case only excepted, 
 which seems to have passed by xmanimous 
 consent. The assertions of those supporting 
 Mr. Dixon's right, were not denied by the 
 opposition. In their remarks they tacitly and 
 repeatedly admitted that if another person 
 was not occupying that seat at the time, (as 
 they contended there was,) the claimant would 
 have a right to take it and be sworn in as a 
 member ; and that after that, the contestant, 
 if there was one, could come in and contest 
 the right. In the course of that discussion, 
 Mr. Seward said : 
 
 " The case is, prima facie, complete ; and in re- 
 ceiving Senators it is the custom, and has been the 
 custom of the Senate of the United States, from 
 the foundation of the Government, to receive the 
 Senator who comes prima facie entitled to fill a 
 vacancy known and admitted to exist, witli a com- 
 mission given him by the Legislature of the State 
 in whose service the vacancy has arisen." 
 
 Mr. Dawson said : 
 
 "I think, Mr. President, that during your long 
 experience in this body you have never known such 
 an application as the present one to be denied. I 
 do not think tliere has been any case since you 
 occupied that chair, or have been a member on 
 this floor, wlierc a member presenting the broad 
 seal of his State, was not permitted to occupy the 
 scat, and if there was a contest, it waste be settled 
 afterwards. « * * It is said that there arc 
 doubts 8!! to whether Mr, Dixon is entitled to th» 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 27. 
 
 117 
 
 seat. If there be doubts, as the Senator from ' 
 Tennessee suggests, to whom should you give the 
 benefit of them ? Of course to the party claiming 
 the seat under the broad seal of one of the sove- 
 reign States of this Union,'equally interested with 
 us in preserving the Constitution. Hence it is 
 that I say he should be permitted to take his seat, 
 and then when the report comes in, in the Ian- | 
 guage of the Senator from South Carolina, we can 
 consider it maturely. By the comse that I have 
 proposed, we shall stick to precedent, and cannot 
 be charged with evasion, or with changing our 
 course for any consideration." 
 
 Mr. Jones, of Tennessee, said : 
 
 " The certificate of election is the highest testimo- 
 nial that can be presented. It makes out &pritna 
 facie case, and has been so held by the Senate from 
 its organization to the present day with but one 
 solitary exception, that I have been able to find 
 in the journals." 
 
 Mr. Jones further said : 
 
 "But, sir, while gentlemen admit the commission 
 is prima facie evidence, they say it is not conclu- 
 sive. Well, it may not be conclusive in every 
 instance that may possibly arise, but is it not some- 
 what remarkable that in all the cases which have 
 arisen from the formation of the Government of 
 the United States to the present day, it has been 
 regarded as conclusive, except in one solitary case ? 
 * * * What were the motives which operated 
 upon the minds of the Senate in that case we are 
 not informed. * * * But all of us can think 
 of many cases, yea, they are innumerable, where 
 the certificate of election is held to be not only 
 prima facie, but conclusive evidence of title so 
 far as holding the seat is concerned. 
 
 " Who does not remember that the Senator from 
 Florida, (Mr. Mallory,) came here and presented 
 his credentials or certificate of election from the 
 Legislature of Florida, and asked to be permitted 
 to take his seat on this floor, and that that seat was 
 contested? What was done? Does not every 
 Senator know that the certificate of election was 
 held to be valid ? And that Mr. Mallory was per- 
 mitted to occupy a seat, although that seat was 
 contested, and contested for six months before a 
 decision was made ? 
 
 " There again I illustrate this point by another 
 case which occurred upon the floor of the Senate 
 in relation to the claim of the distinguished Sena- 
 tor from Illinois, Mr. Shields. Who will not 
 remember that when he came here bearing the 
 broad seal of the State of Illinois, and asking a 
 seat on this floor, a Senator rose and asked that 
 his credentials should be referred to a committee 
 for examination, and who will fail to remember 
 with pleasure, as I do, that the Senate refused to 
 refer them to a committee, and granted him a seat 
 on this floor. * « * But, sir, go further back. 
 Here is the contested election of Potter vs. Rob- 
 bins. Here were two gentlemen standing before 
 
 the Senate of the United States, each claiming to 
 be a Senator from the State of Rhode Island, and 
 each holding a commission from the Legislatiure of 
 that State. That is a stronger case, if possible, 
 than any which I have presented. Here are two 
 gentlemen coming before the Senate, each bearing 
 a certificate of election from the Legislature of the 
 State to which they belong, and each claiming to 
 be a Senator from the State of Rhode Island. 
 What was the decision of the Senate in that case ? 
 It seems to my mind perfectly clear, that the de- 
 cision of the Senate in that case is conclusive, if 
 any decision whatever can be conclusive as a prec- 
 edent in this body. It was decided, after debate, 
 that Mr. Robbins was entitled to be sworn in and 
 take his seat in the first instance, leaving his elec- 
 tion to be determined by the investigation of a 
 committee, and he was ultimately confirmed in 
 his seat in the Senate. 
 
 "Mr. Robbins came here and presented his cre- 
 dentials, and afterwards another gentleman came 
 and presented his credentials, and the Senate 
 instead of referring them to a committee, asserted 
 that Bobbin's claim was good, and permitted him 
 to take his seat, and then the contest was referred 
 to a committee and adjudicated. 
 
 "There is still another case. On the fourth of 
 March, 1801, Uriah Tracy, of Connecticut, having 
 presented his credentials under an appointment 
 by the Governor, and the seal of the State, an 
 exception was taken to his credentials, and debate 
 ensued thereon, but on the motion that he be 
 permitted to take the oath required by the Consti- 
 tution, it was decided in the affirmative. This was 
 a question with regard to the validity of the cre- 
 dentials, but still the claim to a seat was taken in 
 advance of the adjudication of the question. I 
 repeat, that so far as I have been enabled to exam- 
 ine this question, I fand but one solitary case where 
 a member who has come here with the regular cre- 
 dentials of election, has been refused permission 
 to take his seat." 
 
 Mr. Mangum said : 
 
 "Sir, I had hardly expected to lire to see us re- 
 enact the scenes of the New Jersey case, which 
 happened some years ago in the House of Repre» 
 sentatives, which was burned with a brand that 
 was heated to a white heat by the public reproba- 
 tion of the whole United States — by men of all 
 parties." 
 
 Now Mr. President, at the very time this 
 matter was under discussion in the Senate of 
 the United States, Mr. Shields was a member 
 of that body, and Ex-Governor Gobmas was 
 a member of the House of Representatives, 
 and the President of the Convention which 
 sits in the other end of this Capitol, was the 
 Delegate in Congress from the Territory of 
 Minnesota. This principle, then, was re-as- 
 serted and not controverted in the very pres- 
 
118 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 27. 
 
 ence of those men — the present leaders of 
 Democratic Party in this Territory. They 
 had personal knowledge of this principle and 
 had heard it reiterated over and over again ; 
 and yet, sir, one of those very leaders has 
 the hardihood to come into this building and 
 assert that the exception which was presented 
 in the New Jersey Case, was the rule itself, 
 and has acted accordingly, and the other 
 leaders have acted with him. 
 
 Again, sir, questions of the same kind have 
 arisen in the Territory of Minnesota. I 
 remember the cases of Tillotson and Han- 
 son, and Taylor, and Ludden, and McLeod, 
 who presented their certificates of election to 
 the Territorial Legislature, and I remember, 
 too, that Messrs. Muebay, Setzer, Rolette, 
 Flandbau, Bailly, Nobris and Stubgis, 
 [Mr. KiNGSBUBY was a contestant] now mem- 
 bers of the Convention in the other Hall were 
 members of that Legislature, and that some 
 of them took the ground that the member 
 presenting a certificate iiresented prima facie 
 evidence that he was entitled to a seat, and 
 that he must have his seat in the first instance, 
 and if there were others who w ishcd to con- 
 test that seat, his claim must be referred to a 
 committee. Those gentlemen, then, were cog- 
 nizant of this rule, and acted in accordance 
 with it. They know that the Republicans 
 did not insist upon any thing but. what was 
 usual and parliamentary, when they insisted 
 that every person who presented a certificate 
 from the proper officers within the limits of 
 the proposed State was entitled to a seat in 
 this Convention in the first instance. 
 
 I remark here that I do not propose to 
 enter into the merits of the question whether 
 certain members who presented their certifi- 
 cates as prima facie evidence, were really en- 
 titled to their scats in this Convention or not, 
 in case a contest was made. We had noth- 
 ing to do with that question, as a body, at 
 that time, nor have we now until a contest- 
 ant comes. It would have been an insult to 
 them to have refused to receive their certifi- 
 cates and admit them as members of this 
 body, and an insult to the officers who gave 
 them their certificates. Nor is it our busi- 
 ness to go into that matter voluntarily our- 
 selves. "Who is to blame if any one occupies 
 a seat in this Convention who is not entitled 
 to it ? Not the members of this Convention. 
 
 Has the matter ever been brought before 
 them in a tangible and legal shape ? Not by 
 any means. Who then is in fault? Those 
 who supplise they really had rights to seats 
 here, and have not claimed them, and those 
 who sustain them in their course, if anybody. 
 
 The second excuse which the leaders of 
 that party make for their course is, that the 
 Republicans insisted that the Clerk or Clerks 
 of the board of County Commissioners was 
 the only legal source from whence the prima 
 facie evidence could come. 
 
 Here I propose to read that section of the 
 Enabling Act which refers to the manner of 
 conducting the election of Delegates to this 
 Convention. It is as follows. 
 
 Sec. 3. And be it further enacted, That on the 
 first Monday in June next, the legal voters in each 
 representative district, then existing within the 
 limits of the proposed State, are hereby author- 
 ized to elect two delegates for each representative 
 to which said district may be entitled according to 
 the apportionment for representatives to the Ter- 
 ritorial Legislature, which election for delegates 
 shall be held and conducted, and returns made, 
 in all respects in conformity with the laws of said 
 Territory regulati.ig the election of representa- 
 tives ; and the delegates so elected shall assemble 
 at the Capital of said Territory, on the second 
 Monday in July next, and first determine by a 
 a vote, whether it is the wish of the people of the 
 proposed State to be admitted into the Union at 
 that time ; and if so, shall proceed to form a Con- 
 stitution, and take all necessary steps for the 
 establishment of a State Government, in conform- 
 ity with the Federal Constitution, subject to the 
 approval and ratification of the people of the pro- 
 posed State. 
 
 Now, sir, what is the law ? I refer to sec- 
 tion 33, chapter five of the Revised Statutes, 
 and find the following: 
 
 Sec. 33. On the twentieth day after the close of 
 any election, or sooner, if all the returns be 
 received, the clerk of the board of County Com- 
 missioners, taking to his assistance two justices of 
 the peace of the county, shall proceed to open said 
 returns and make abstracts of the votes in the fol- 
 lowing manner : 
 
 The abstract of the votes for Delegate to Con- 
 gress shall be on one sheet ; the abstract of votes 
 for members of the Legislative Assembly shall be 
 on one sheet ; and the abstract of votes for county 
 and precinct oflicers shall be on another sheet ; 
 and it shall be the duty of said clerk of County 
 Commissioners immediately to make out a certifi- 
 cate of election to each of the persons having th« 
 highest number of votes for members of the Le- 
 gislative Assembly. « » * • ^nd 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Moxdat, Jclt 27. 
 
 119 
 
 to deliver said certificate to the person entitled 
 to it. 
 
 Also 33, chapter five: 
 
 When two or more counties are united in one 
 t:ouncil or representative district, the clerk of the 
 board of County Commissioners of the county last 
 «stablished, shall within twenty days after the day 
 of election attend at the office of the clerk of the 
 board of county commissioners, of the senior coun- 
 ty and in coi^unction with the clerk or the clerks of 
 the senior county or counties, shall compare the 
 votes given in the several counties composing such 
 council or representative district, and said clerks 
 shall immediately make out a certificate of the 
 person or persons having the highest number of 
 votes in such counties * * * * 
 which certified shall be delivered to the person 
 entitled to it. ***** # 
 
 It is made the duty then, of the clerk or 
 clerks of the board of County Commission- 
 ers, to give the certificate, and that certificate 
 when presented, is prima facie evidence of 
 election, and under it the member is entitled 
 to have and hold his seat until it is proven, 
 by actual evidence, that there was fraud or 
 illegal voting, or something of that kind in 
 his election, back of the certificate, sufficient 
 to give the seat to the contestant. The 
 returns, it is true, are made to the Secretary 
 of the Territory, but he does not give certifi- 
 cates. 
 
 Section 35 of the same act is as follows : 
 
 Sec. 35. The clerk of the board of Commis- 
 sioners immediately after making the abstracts of 
 the votes given in his county shall make a copy of 
 eacb of said abstracts and transmit it by mail to 
 the Secretary of the Territory who with the Mar- 
 shal of the Territory or his deputy in presence of 
 the Governor, shall proceed within fifty days after 
 the election, and sooner if all the returns be 
 received, to canvass the votes given for delegate to 
 Congress. 
 
 That is the exception. The Secretary of 
 the Territory has a part in the canvassing the 
 votes for the delegate to Congress, but for no 
 other officers, and no other certificate can 
 come from him or from the Governor, as 
 prima facie evidence. 
 
 The third reason the leading Democrats 
 give for leaving this Convention, was because 
 the Republicans insisted that a member of 
 the Convention who had been requested in 
 writing, by a majority of all the members elect, 
 and two-thirds of those present, to call the 
 Convention to order, was the proper person, 
 instead of an officious and intermeddling fed- 
 
 eral office holder — the Secretary of the Terri- 
 tory — and that the general rule was that 
 when no person was directly authorized by 
 law to call deliberative bodies to order, that 
 some member of the body perform that duty. 
 
 Now, sir, before I proceed to the legal 
 part of the question, I ask the simple ques- 
 tion whether it is not right that a body of 
 this character, assembled to frame a State 
 Constitution, should be entirely free firom all 
 executive interference, or the interference of 
 any federal office holder ? Is it not our right 
 to assemble here to deliberate without any 
 such interference ? Does it not, upon its face, 
 present an appearance of right ? Is it not 
 right in fact ? Certainly it is. 
 
 Now, as it has been disputed by a gentle- 
 man high in authority in the other party, that 
 no written request was made to Mr. North 
 to call this Convention to order. I ask the 
 Clerk to read from the journal the written 
 request as entered thereon by the order of 
 the Convention. 
 
 The Clerk then read the request as fol- 
 lows : 
 
 We, the undersigned, members elect to the Con- 
 stitutional Convention of Minnesota, hereby re- 
 quest J. W. North to call said Convention to order 
 at as early an hour on Monday, the 13th of Julj 
 inst., as the majority of the Convention shall be 
 found in attendence. 
 
 (Signed) 
 
 St, A. D. Balcombe, Thos. Foster, H. "W. Holley, 
 Thos. "Wilson, L. K. Stannard, W. H. C. Folsom, 
 N. P. Colburn, A. B. Vaughn, Thos. J. Galbraith, 
 W. Hayden, W. F. Russell, T. D. Smith, N. B. 
 Bobbins, B. H. Baldwin, E. N. Bates, J. H. Mur- 
 phy, S. W. Putnam, P. A. Cederstam, Chas. F. 
 Lowe, Thos. Winell, R. S. Barthololomew, F. Ayer, 
 Geo. Watson, Frank Mantor, Chas. H. Coe, J. A. 
 Anderson, Chas. G. Gerrish, H. A. Billings, S. 
 Harding, A. Coombs. H. Eschlie, J. Cleghorn, 
 Thos. BoUes, J. "W. North, W. J. Duley, J. A. 
 Kemp, J. A. McCann, C. W. Thompson, Chas, 
 McClure, Aaron G. Hudson, Lewis, McKune, Amos 
 Coggswell, 0. F. Perkins, D. A. Secombe, L. C. 
 Walker, B. E. Messer, Cyrus Aldrich, David Mor- 
 gan, B. Lyle, D. L. King, Joseph Peckham, D. M. 
 Hall, E. Page Davis, A. H. Butler, Chas. Hanson, 
 D. D. Dickerson. 
 
 Dated July 11th, 1S57. 
 
 Mr. B continued: — Now I will refer to 
 authorities to show that our proceedings were 
 actually in accordance with parliamentary 
 usage. In the first place I read from Cush- 
 ing's Manuel, page 10, sec. 8 : 
 
120 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, Jcly 27. 
 
 "The most usual and convenient mode of organ- 
 izing a deliberative assembly is the following : — 
 The members being assembled together in the 
 place, and at the time appointed for thcii' meeting, 
 one of them addressing himself to the others, re- 
 quests them to come to order ; the members there- 
 upon seating themselves and giving their attention 
 to him, he suggests the propriety and necessity of 
 their being organized before proceeding to busi- 
 ness, and requests the members to nominate some 
 person to act as Chairman of the meeting," &c. 
 
 Now I propose to show that that course 
 has been almost, if not quite, universally fol- 
 lowed, and that this rule universally prevails 
 that wherever a person has been pointed out 
 by law as a person to call a deliberative 
 body to order, he in the first instance has the 
 roll of members called, to ascertain who are 
 members and who are present; and that 
 where the law has not pointed out any such 
 person, any member of the deliberative body, 
 whatever its character may be, has a right to 
 call the body to order. Where such person 
 is pointed out by law, he acts as temporary 
 Chairman. There may be exceptions, in prac- 
 tice, to the rule I have laid down, as there 
 are exceptions to all other rules, but as in 
 other cases, exceptions prove the rule. In 
 the Massachusetts Constitutional Convention 
 held in 1853, the Hon. Robert Raxtoul, of 
 Beverly, called the Convention to order. He 
 was a member of the body, and it was one 
 of those instances in which the law creating 
 the Convention did not prescribe who should 
 call the Convention to order. In Ohio the 
 same course was pursued in its Constitutional 
 Convention of 1850. Mr. Sawyer, member 
 from Allen County, moved that Mr. Larwill 
 be called to the Chair. — Carried. In Illinois 
 no provision was made for calling the Conven- 
 tion to order, and it was called to order by 
 Francis C. Sherman, of Cook County, upon 
 whose motion Mr. Zadok Casey was ap- 
 pointed President of the Convention pro tern. 
 In Iowa there was no provision of law in that 
 respect, and the Convention was called to or- 
 der by James Grant, member elect from 
 Scott County, upon whose motion Mr. Wm. 
 Thompson was appointed Secretary, pro tern. 
 In California, no provision was made by law, 
 and the Convention was called to order by 
 Mr. Halleck, member from Monterey, and 
 Mr. Dimmick was appointed Chairman, pro 
 tern. And here I wish to remark upon the 
 difference in the modesty between the Secre- 
 
 tary of the Territory of California and our 
 Secretary. Mr. Halleck was Secretary of 
 Cahfomia, and was also elected a member of 
 the Constitutional Convention. His seat was 
 not in controversy ; but, sir, instead of arro- 
 gating to himself the authority of calling the 
 Convention to order, by virtue of his official 
 position., he did so as a simple member of the 
 body, and in his capacity as such? Note still 
 further his modesty, in contrast. On calling 
 the roll on the first day, it was ascertained 
 that there was not a quonmi present, and an 
 adjournment took place until the next Mon- 
 day. On Monday, the Chairman announced 
 that he had received a communication from 
 the Governor, through the Secretary of State. 
 That communication showed who were mem- 
 bers of the Convention, according to the ideas 
 of the Governor. The returns were to be 
 made to the Secretary and Governor, from 
 whom the certificates were to come ; and had 
 it not been for the difference between that 
 Secretary and our Secretary, he could have 
 presented himself at the desk and called the 
 roll of members, because he was the only 
 man who had that roll, and the only man who 
 was oflicially entitled to it, and who could 
 give certificates of election./ 
 
 I have examined the journals of the Wis- 
 consin Conventions to frame a Constitution, 
 and I find that in both of them a member of 
 the body called them to order. There are 
 other instances which I might cite, but I havo 
 referred to sufficient to establish the general 
 rule. I have examined the joiu-nals of every 
 Convention I could get hold of, and I have 
 not been able to find a single exception to the 
 rule I have laid down. Not only the rule, 
 but the justness of that mode of proceedure, 
 has always been acknowledged. And here I 
 take occasion to say, that one of the members 
 sitting in the other Hall, (Mr. IIolc(>mbe,) 
 was a member of the Wisconsin Convention, 
 and was personally cognizant of the proper 
 mode of proceedure, and the rule. 
 
 I now come to precedents nearer home. 
 As a general rule the Secretary of the last 
 Senate, the Clerk of the last House, call the 
 succeeding bodies to order in most of the 
 States. That is generally regulated by law, 
 and it is so in this Territory. Our statute 
 provides that the Secretary of the last Council, 
 and the Clerk of the last House, are to call 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 27. 
 
 121 
 
 the succeeding Council and House to order, 
 But an instance occurred in 1853, when the 
 Clerk of the House was not present at the 
 meeting of the follo\^-ing House, and I find 
 in the journal of that body, that " At twelve 
 "o'clock, M., on Monday the fifth of Janu- 
 "ary, designated by law for the Legislature to 
 " assemble, the Chief Clerk of the House not 
 " being in attendance, on motion of Mr. A. E. 
 *' Ames, Mr. Joseph R. Bkowx, was appoin- 
 " ted to occupy the Clerk's desk." Here was 
 an instance in which Mr. A. E. Ames, a 
 gentleman who holds a seat in the bogus 
 Convention in the other end of this Capitol, 
 followed and acknowledged the binding force 
 of the universal rule which I have declared 
 that where no person is appointed by law. 
 to call a deliberative body to order, or if there 
 be such a person^and he is absent, the proper 
 and usual mode is for some member of the 
 body to caU it to order. Joseph R. Brown, 
 also a member of that other body, was 
 appointed Clerk under that rule, and Messrs. 
 MrRKAY, Rolette, and others in that Con- 
 vention were members of that House, and 
 knew of that precedent, and acknowledged it 
 by their action. 
 
 But I have referred to a sufficient nxmiber 
 of precedents to show the universaUty of the 
 rule, and I will therefore not detain the Con- 
 vention longer with this point, though I could 
 cite a hundred more precedents were it neces- 
 sary to do so. The propriety of such a rule 
 is e\'ident to every unbiased mind. 
 
 And now, not so much for the purpose of 
 enlightening the members, as to the views of 
 the editor of a certain paper in this city, as 
 for the purpose of spreading the views of that 
 editor upon the journal of debates of this 
 Convention, I will read an editorial article 
 written by an editor of a neutral paper, 
 supposed to be entirely unbiased on this 
 question. The St. Paul Advertiser, of July 
 twenty -fifth, a commercial paper, speaking the 
 sentiments of a class who pay little attention 
 to th.e mere political aspects of this matter, 
 but who are engaged more particularly with 
 the pecuniary and commercial interests of the 
 country, and are disposed to discountenance 
 any movement which is calculated to retard 
 our progress. It is as follows : 
 
 "The doctrine now for the first time stated, 
 that the Secretary of the Territory is the only 
 16 
 
 person competent to call a Constitutional Conven- 
 tion to order, is too ridiculous to merit one mo- 
 ment's consideration. This, we venture to say, is 
 the most extraordinary proposition that even the 
 exigencies of party logic ever gave rise to. That 
 the Secretary may exercise this privilege, is itself 
 the very doubtful proposition, which nothing but 
 an array of precedents, which do not exist, could 
 warrant in this case, and nothing less than univer- 
 sality of precedent, when there is, perhaps, a 
 single instance on record, could establish it as a, 
 rule. It is, on the other hand, the indubitable and 
 self-evident proposition that any member of an 
 inchoate, deliberative body may call it to order and 
 put the question preliminary to its organization. 
 It does not depend on the occasional or exceptional 
 precedent. But it is the r>TVERSAL rule, and is 
 inherent in the nature, and results from the neces- 
 sity of the case. If any one, therefore, doubts 
 that Mr. Chase, acting by virtue of his Secretary- 
 ship, was competent to call the Convention to 
 order, no one can doubt that Mr. Xoeth, a member 
 of the Convention was fully competent to perform 
 that office. We take it for granted that Mr. Chask 
 was a competent person to do this, but that Mr. 
 XoRTH was equally so. Both these gentlemen acting 
 concurrently, put questions in the usual parliament- 
 ary form, to an assemblage of persons within the 
 bar of the Convention, one was for an adjournment, 
 the other for an organization. Both motions were 
 declared carried. We have here, in one assembly 
 two separate and distinct proceedings at the same 
 time. If we could now ascertain that a majority 
 of the assembly participated in the proceedings 
 initiated by Mr. Chase, and acted upon the motion 
 put by him, we are not sure that any of the conse- 
 quences would follow which the Pioneer deduces 
 from its assertion of that fact. But it is impossi- 
 ble to ascertain any such thing, and it is, to say the 
 least, highly improbable that such was the case. 
 First, because a majority had consented to recog- 
 nize Mr. North beforehand, and had requested 
 him in writing to call the meeting to order. 
 Second. Because the majority of Republicans had 
 every motive for ignoring the proceedings of Mr. 
 Chase. Third. They were acting at the same 
 time upon a motion of their own, agreed upon 
 beforehand, and consented to beforehand unani- 
 mously. 
 
 " But it must have struck every one that all 
 this balderdash about the competency of this or 
 that oflScer has nothing to do with the question. 
 It is not of the least consequence who puts the 
 questions preliminary to organization, or how they 
 are put. It is only necessary that by some means 
 or other the will of the majority be ascertained. 
 The mode of procedure does not enter into the 
 essence of the act. The will of the majority, how- 
 ever expressed, is the act of all the parties partici- 
 pating in the proceeding. The single circumstance 
 that but forty -five Democrats withdiew from the 
 Hall in accordance with the resolution to adjourn 
 
122 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Mond at, July ZT- 
 
 while fifty-six Republicans remained, and orga- 
 nized in accordance with the motion so to do, but 
 concurrently with the other, would seem to express 
 in the clearest and most emphatic manner possible 
 the will of the majority in this case. It is doubtful 
 if a majority of those present recognized the 
 authority of Mr. Chase. It is beyond dispute that 
 a majority recognized the authority of Mr. NoExn. 
 There is no evidence at ail of the one, and there is 
 the most absolute evidence of the other. 
 
 " On the next day, the Democrats, now increased 
 to forty-six, met pursuant to a(^ournment, as the 
 CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION — as an adjoumed meet- 
 ing of the Convention, and came in a body 
 to the Hall occupied by a minority of the members 
 who had already organized as the Convention, and 
 demanded the surrender of the Hall to them as 
 the Convention. Being refused, they adjourned 
 again to the Council Chamber, and though a minor- 
 ity, and therefore not a quorum, organized as the 
 Convention. 
 
 "We are the advocates of no party. We have 
 too high a respect for the prominent members of 
 the recusant delegation, to believe that they would 
 lend themselves without good reasons, to the am- 
 bitious schemes of demagogues for a party domi- 
 nation, obtained by wicked and unjust means ; but 
 we confess we are at a loss to understand how, 
 even admitting for the moment, that the adjourn- 
 ment upon which their action was predicated, was 
 the sense of the meeting at the Capitol on Monday 
 noon. We are at a loss to understand how i 
 could be considered in any sense as the adjourn- 
 ment of the Convention. There is no evidence 
 that of all those who participated in the proceed- 
 ing, any one was a member of the Convention. It 
 is known that several persons were present wlio 
 were not members. There had been no organiza- 
 tion, no credentials had been presented. The 
 Convention did not exist as a deliberative or par- 
 liamentary body when that meeting adjourned, if 
 it were an adjournment. It can only be consid- 
 ered in its most favorable light, as the act of an 
 informal and tumultuous assemblage of mou, 
 speaking without organization, and therefore with- 
 out authority. And there is not the least doubt 
 that if every member in the Hall had voted on the 
 motion to adjourn, prior to organization, that a 
 majority of all the members of the Convention, 
 this being a quorum, would still, as such quorum, 
 be competent to remain and organize." 
 
 Again, it is objected that a majority of all 
 the members elect met and organized in the 
 usual and parliamentary manner, and pro- 
 ceeded to the business for which they were 
 elected, without taking notice of the factious 
 and discourteous conduct of the minority or 
 its quibbles. 
 
 A great deal has been said about a motion 
 made by an individual — no one knew whether 
 by a member of the Convention or not — be- 
 
 cause the journal of the proceedings of that 
 day's Convention, which they will present to 
 you, does not show who were members of the 
 Convention that day, and does not even show 
 that any members were present, because a 
 list of the members was never called by that 
 individual who professed to be Chairman 
 at that time. Had he followed the uni' 
 versal rule, he would have called the list that 
 day. But a motion was made to adjourn to 
 twelve o'clock next day. It is asserted that 
 that motion took precedence of all otherSv 
 Now granting for the sake of the argument 
 — nothing more — that the official who pre- 
 tended to be the presiding officer at that time, 
 was the presiding officer in fact. I deny that 
 a motion to adjourn to a fixed time was % 
 privileged motion, and I charge that those 
 who pretend it is, know better. 
 
 On page seventy-nine of Cushing's Manuel 
 I find the following : 
 
 "A motion to adjourn takes the place of all 
 other questions whatsoever; for otherwise the 
 assembly might be kept sitting against its will, and 
 for an indefinite time ; but in order to entitle this 
 motion to precedence it must be simply to adjourn 
 without the addition of any particular day or time, 
 and as the object of the motion, when made in the 
 midst of some other proceeding, and with a view 
 to supercede a question already proposed, as simply 
 to breaking up the sitting, it does not admit of any 
 amendments by the addition of a particular day, 
 or in any other manner, though if a motion to 
 adjourn is made, when no other business is before 
 the assembly, it may be amended like other ques- 
 tions." 
 
 Now, sir, what was the motion made by a 
 gentleman, at the time the Secretary presented 
 himself as the presiding officer? It was a 
 motion to adjourn to a certain day and to a 
 certain time. Hence tliat motion could not 
 be a privileged motion, and was not in order, 
 as the motion made by Mr. NoiiTU that Mr. 
 Galbkaitu be elected President pro tempore 
 was previously made. But supposing it was, 
 I contend that it was impossible for them to 
 adjourn at that time. There was no Conven- 
 tion to adjourn — no assembly to adjourn. 
 They were simply a mass of individuals with- 
 out organization. No one knows, or can 
 know, who voted for or against the motion — 
 whether they were members having a right to 
 a scat in the Convention, or merely citizens of 
 St. Paul. I refer again to Cdshino's Manuel, 
 page 166, and find — 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, Jlt-y 27. 
 
 li?n 
 
 "The reason why amotion to adjourn, moved for 
 the purpose of superceding or suppressing a pend- 
 ing question is not susceptible of amendment, is 
 that if amended, it would at once become inadmis- 
 sable in point of order, on the ground of its being 
 introductorr to a second question, having no priv- 
 ilege, to take the place of a question already pend- 
 ing, and entitled to be first disposed of." 
 
 I submit the testimony of an imbiased 
 man as to the condition we were actually in 
 at the time the motion was made. I extract 
 from the editorial of the Advertiser^ July 
 twenty-tifth : 
 
 "Let us analyse thereon without disputing him. 
 The point at issue is this : Was the motion for 
 adjournment on Jlonday the 13th inst., put by Mr. 
 Chase, in the Hall of the Convention, to the per- 
 sons there assembled prior to organization, and 
 declared carried by Mr. Chase— .-was this adjourn- 
 ment of the Convention binding as the act of the 
 Convention on all its members?" 
 
 "If this were indeed so, then it is! beyond dispute 
 that to the Democratic delegates in session at the 
 Council Chamber, rightfully belongs the duty of 
 framing a Constitution for Minnesota." 
 
 "The act of the Convention ? By what process 
 had the persons who met within the bar of the 
 House become the Convention * What, and who 
 constituted them the Convention ? We had sup- 
 posed it to be a fundamental law of th« inception 
 of parliaments that assemblies of men convened to 
 transact the business of parliamentary bodies, must 
 first become a parliamentary body before they 
 can perform the acts of parFiamentary bodies. An 
 adjournment binding upon the members of a par- 
 liamentary body, as such, necessarily implies the 
 existence of a parliamentary body. An adjourn- 
 ment prior to organization is a thing impossible. 
 There can be no adjournment, because there is 
 nothing to adjourn. Will Theron, will Mr. Flax- 
 DRAC, will the Pioneer explain to the people of 
 Minnesota, how a number of persons congregated 
 informally, and without organization, within the 
 bar of the Convention, could adjourn as the Con- 
 vention, before they existed as a Convention? 
 Will any one tell us how such an act could be the 
 act of a parliamentary body, obligatory on the 
 members thereof as such, before the first step had 
 been taken to constitute them a parliamentary 
 body? 
 
 "We repeat thatamotion for adjournment at that 
 stage of proceedings was simply absurd. It could 
 only be regarded in its most favorable light as an 
 informal, and exceedingly impertinent and foolish 
 suggestion, and the unanimous concurrence of all 
 present in it, could be nothing more than the vol- 
 untary dispersion of a crowd. We are sure that 
 we are right in saying, that if the motion to ad- 
 journ had met the unanimous concurrence of every 
 one, the proceedings could have had no bitiding 
 force, except as tacit agreement between individu- 
 
 als, and a quorum of the inchoate convention 
 might have reassembled at any time thereafter, and 
 proceeded to organize without reference to it. The 
 first and only steps which the unorganized assem- 
 blage of individuals claiming to be members elec- 
 ted to the Convention, was capable of taking, was 
 the one step neceesary to organization. Xo other 
 could come within its powers till after organiza- 
 tion. Before that, it might disperse, or the indi- 
 viduals who composed the meeting, might, in their 
 individual capacity, do what they pleased, but it 
 could not adjousn as a parliamentary body. 
 
 "Throwing aside all technical tests, and reducing 
 it to a question of legal right — what was the sense 
 of a majority of those present at the meeting on 
 Monday noon ? What was the sense of a majority 
 of those present who were legally and rightfully 
 entitled to their seats? There were fifty-five Re- 
 publicans at least with credentials in their pockets 
 — if six were bogus there would remain forty-nine 
 in favor of organization. The highest number 
 claimed by the Democrats, including several who 
 had not credentials — was forty -five." 
 
 Now, sir, when this motion to adjourn was 
 made, a member of the Convention was oc- 
 cupying the desk by the authority of a ma- 
 jority of all the members elected, and by a 
 majority of two-thirds of the members pres- 
 ent, and that member made the motion that 
 Mr. Galbbaith be appointed temporary Chair- 
 man. "WhQe he was putting that motion, a 
 gentleman in tlie assembly moved to adjourn 
 until a certain time. As I have shown the 
 motion to adjourn to a certain time was not a 
 privilegetl motion, but was out of order; and 
 not only was it out of order, but it is consid- 
 ered by the rules, to have been a breach of 
 order. A motion to adjourn would even have 
 been out of order then, because the yeas and 
 nays were being put ; and I refer to Jeffer- 
 son's Manuel to prove that position. The 
 motion to adjourn to a certain time was made, 
 while the motion that Mr. GALBRAirn be 
 temporary Chairman was being put, and even 
 if it had been a simple motion to adjoinm 
 without specifying the time, it would have 
 been out of order, as I have shown, Jeffer- 
 son's Manuel says : 
 
 "A motion to adjourn simply takes place of all 
 others ; for otherwise a House might be kept sit- 
 ting against its will, and indefinitely. Yet the 
 motion cannot be received after another question 
 is actually put, and while the House is engaged in 
 voting." 
 
 Now was not the .House actually engaged 
 in voting when the motion to adjourn to a 
 certain time and place was made ? Then 
 
124 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, Jult 27. 
 
 was it not out of order ? Certainly it was 
 — as decided by the best authority that can 
 be produced. Again, Jefferson's Manuel 
 page 161 : 
 
 "It might be asked whether a motion for adjourn- 
 ment or for the orders of the day cannot be made 
 by one member while another is speaking. It 
 cannot." 
 
 Was there not at the time a gentleman oc- 
 cupying the floor? Was not Mr. Noetu 
 putting the question? Undei- three rules, 
 then, a motion to adjourn to a certain time 
 and place at that time, was out of order. 
 
 Again, it has been the universal rule to 
 ascertain who the members of a deliberative 
 body are, before a motion of this character is 
 made. I will not here refer to precedents in 
 detail, but \\all refer to the journals and de- 
 bates of every Constitutional Convention, and 
 of every legislative body. They will show 
 that the first business is to make out a hst of 
 members. That there may have been excep- 
 tions to that course, I will not deny ; but I 
 have no such exception now in my mind. 
 
 It has generally been conceded that there 
 is no deliberative body, to act upon any mo- 
 tion, except merely a motion for the appoint- 
 ment of a temporary Chairman, and temporary 
 Secretary, until after the roll is called, and 
 until it was ascertained who were actually 
 members of the body. I refer to the jour- 
 nals of Wisconsin, Massachusetts, Ohio, In- 
 diana, New York, Iowa and all others — cases 
 where they were called to order both by the 
 Secretary of State, and by members of the 
 body itself. I here refer to the editorial of 
 the St. Paul Advertmr of July 25. I have 
 shown you, according to the best of my 
 ability, at the present time, that those who 
 present themselves to any deliberate body 
 with certificates of election from the proper 
 authority, are first entitled to seats — that 
 Buch certificates are held to be prima facie 
 evidence of their rights to seats, — to which 
 rule there have been but few exceptions. I 
 have shown you that the prominent leaders of 
 the Democratic party of this Territory are 
 cognizant of that law governing deliberative 
 bodies, and have acted upon it, in Congress, 
 in other Conventions, and in our Territorial 
 Legislature. I have shown you that some of 
 them have been personally engaged in enforc- 
 ing that general and universal rule. Gen. 
 
 Shields, a prominent member of that party, 
 was himself admitted, under objection made, 
 to a seat in the United States Senate. He 
 presented himself with 2)rma facie evidence 
 of his right to such seat. Mr. Douglas 
 moved that he be sworn in immediately ; and 
 he would not allow the Senate to proceed to 
 business unless he was qualified, contending 
 that Illinois should be represented in that 
 body, and that immediately ; and that it was 
 right and just that he should be admitted 
 upon prima facie evidence, and he was ad- 
 mitted, though afterwards it was proven that 
 he was ineligible. I have shown you that very 
 many of those who are assembled in the other 
 end of the Capitol, are men of large experi- 
 ence in legislative bodies, and have themselves 
 assisted in establishing the universal rules I 
 have brought to your notice. I have shown 
 you who the persons are in this Territory 
 from whom that 2)nma facie evidence should 
 come, and from whom only it can come. 
 
 What other conclusion then can any indi- 
 vidual come to, from the course pursued by 
 the Democratic leaders, than that it is their 
 determination to prevent the immediate ad- 
 mission of Minnesota into the Union as a 
 sovereign and independent State ? Upon 
 what other ground can you explain the ac- 
 tion of those men in acting directly contrary 
 to their own knowledge, and contrary to what 
 is right, just, usual, parliamentary and cour- 
 teous ? Can any one explain the matter upon 
 any other grounds ? 
 
 It has been suggested that our Representa- 
 tive in Congress (Mr. Rice) procured the 
 passage of the Enabhng Act, and that this 
 was an indication that the Democratic party 
 was in favor of our immediate admission into 
 the Union. True, he did procure the passage 
 of that Act, and in doing so he acted in obedi- 
 ence to the voice of the people of this Terri- 
 tory, and undoubtedly he and the Democratic 
 leaders at the time thought it would be an 
 easy matter for them to escort the new State 
 into the Union under Democratic auspices. 
 But an election of Delegates to this Conven- 
 tion has since taken place, and it resulted in 
 giving the Republicans a majority of Delegates 
 in the Convention, and the signs of the times 
 pretty clearly indicate that if the State was 
 to go into the Union now, the Republicans 
 would have the pleasure of escorting her in. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Moxdat, July 21 
 
 125 
 
 That has become evident to the leaders of 
 that party, and to others. Then what was 
 the next coiu'se for them to pursue? It 
 was to prevent the State of Minnesota, if 
 possible, from going into the Union. It was 
 tirst, to break up, if possible, the deliberations 
 of tlie Constitutional Convention entirely; 
 to withdraw from the Convention, tliinking 
 there would not be a quorum to organize, and 
 thus defeat the formation of a Constitution. 
 They violated all parliamentary law, all 
 usages, and all courtesy, yet failed in their 
 attempts. What next? They secede from 
 this Convention, and enter upon the formation 
 of another Constitution, in order to confuse 
 the minds of the people, for the purpose, 
 apparently, of carrying the impression to the 
 people that they are in favor of admission 
 into tlie Union as a State, because they dare 
 not openly violate the miiversal feeling and 
 desire of the people. But they want to do it 
 in an indirect manner, and the question now 
 remains to be solved whether the people of 
 tlus Tenitory will pennit the leaders of that 
 party, for selfish purposes, to defeat the 
 adoption of the Constitution which we may 
 frame here. The reasons for the course they 
 pursue are obvious. There are certain indi- 
 viduals in that party who are very ambitious, 
 and who proclaim it abroad that they must 
 be the first United States Senators from the 
 State of Minnesota. But now they see that 
 prospect rapidly growing dim under the 
 advance of the Republican party, and they 
 are in hopes that by delajring tlie formation 
 and adoption of a Constitution a few years 
 longer, that their officials, their federal office 
 holders, and their money, may bring about a 
 diiFerent state of tilings from what exists in 
 the Territory now, and that their chance for 
 a seat in the United States Senate from the 
 State of Minnesota, will be much better than 
 it is now. 
 
 But some person may ask, " Is it possible 
 " that the leaders of that party can change so 
 'suddenly their course of action? They 
 *' have heretofore acted in favor of our admis- 
 " sion into the Union immediately, and they 
 " have expressed themselves in favor of it." 
 Now, sir, it is nothing new to me to see the 
 leaders of that party change their course of 
 action, or their views upon any subject 
 whatever. I myself have some personal 
 
 knowledge in reference to this matter. I have 
 seen the " dictator " of that party change his 
 mind three or four times upon one question, to 
 accomplish certain selfish ends and objects. 
 And I will here state that that same individual 
 came to me some few da3-s before the meeting 
 of this Convention, and acknowledged that 
 they were in the minority ; that they did not 
 expect the control of the Convention ; that 
 we had two majority, even if they had what 
 they claimed — four seats from St. Anthony, 
 and the delegates from Pembina ; but the 
 delegates from Pembina were not entitled to 
 seats, according to his o\vn judgment, though 
 if the party contended for them he would have 
 to. And that very same ^^ dictator" has 
 since acknowledged that fourteen of their 
 members were not present, and that there 
 were fifty-six of our members present at the 
 first meeting on Monday, the thirteenth inst., 
 — that being four majority of all the mem- 
 bers elect. He knew that his party was to 
 be in the minority, and knowing it, he came 
 to me individually and requested an interview 
 with me after my election as President of this 
 body, to permit him to suggest certain posi- 
 tions he wished to occupy upon the commit- 
 tees — hoping to have a ])roniinent place upon 
 the committees, in case he did not succeed in 
 making his party follow him in his attempt 
 to break up the Constitutional Convention 
 altogether. 
 
 Again, it is notliing new for that individual 
 who is now the acknowledged leader of that 
 party, to change his position upon any sub- 
 ject, or his course of action, or his pohcy. I 
 recollect very well having been a member of 
 the Council a year ago last winter, when the 
 subject of giving the old North-Western Rail- 
 road Company an opportunity of getting a 
 foothold in this Territory came up for consid- 
 eration. Many of us were entirely opposed 
 to it, and that very " dictator " of that party 
 had been for a long time professedly opposed 
 to it. But, sir, after much bitter strife and 
 contention over the matter upon both sides, 
 he deserted us and signed the bill which they 
 asked him to sign. 
 
 Again, I can very well remember when 
 that individual was professedly in favor of a 
 north and south line division of this Territory. 
 But a short time after he came out in favor of 
 an east and west. Knowing that to be the 
 
126 
 
 mNNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 27. 
 
 universal view of Southern Minnesota, he 
 hoped to court some favor with her, and gain 
 her support for him to the United States 
 Senate at some future time. He then stated 
 that the only reason why he had heretofore 
 been in favor of a north and south line was 
 that he thought it was going to be a better 
 line for the Democratic party ; but that he 
 had come to the conclusion to sacrifice party 
 interests for the interests of the Territory. 
 Then, sir, but a few months after he had 
 proclaimed himself in favor of an east and 
 west line, we hear that he has promised to 
 vote for a north and south line in the event 
 of his election to this Constitutional Con- 
 vention. He deserted Southern Minnesota 
 then, and that very movement of his, he 
 having been a prominent individual in the 
 Territory, and having taken a prominent 
 position in favor of an east and west line, made 
 it impossible to make any successful struggle 
 against a north and south line division. 
 Southern Minnesota may give him the credit 
 of having defeated her wishes in that mattef. 
 
 Again sir, I happened to have been a mem- 
 ber of the Council last winter when the ques- 
 tion of removing the seat of government was 
 mooted. I was in favor of its removal, and 
 I do not deny that I am still in favor of it, 
 upon the general principle that the seat of 
 government of any State or Territory should 
 not be at the commercial metropolis of that 
 State or Territory. And I have another rea- 
 son which I will express to my St. Paul friends, 
 and that is, that they have always been con- 
 trolled in their political action here by a class 
 of men who have always some traps set for 
 the country members — by men who are 
 always up to this border ruffian kind of trick- 
 ery — this kind of skullduggery, as it is called 
 in Minnesota. And now St. Paul allows her- 
 self to be controlled by these same border 
 ruflian politicians. Members who come from 
 the country are met at the threshold with 
 some trap and snare. 
 
 But I digress from the point. I said I was 
 in favor of the removal, but I wish to state 
 that I was not, as represented by that dicta- 
 tor, the first one to moot that question. I 
 did not favor that movement until after it 
 had been discussed in private circles for some 
 length of time, and until I had ascertained 
 that I had to take one side or the other, and 
 
 I finally took the side that my own inclina- 
 tions dictated. The "dictator" of the other 
 party, to my own personal knowledge, was 
 in favor of the removal from the very begin- 
 ning and inception of the agitation upon that 
 subject. To my personal knowledge he was 
 the adviser of the Saint Peter Company from 
 the beginning of that struggle to the end of 
 it. To my personal knowledge, he was the 
 one who drafted that bill as it passed, with 
 the exception of some minor amendments 
 which were made to it. He says to the Saint 
 Peter Company : " Gentlemen, let me appar- 
 "ently stand in the back ground ; I am Gover- 
 "nor, and I do not want it to appear that I am 
 "very anxious in the matter; but if you want 
 "my assistance at any time when there is a 
 "hard job before you, I am ready — I do not 
 "want to say much about this matter, but I 
 "am willing to meet you in your deliberations 
 "on this matter, though I do not wish to have 
 "it go forth that as Governor I am working for 
 "the removal of this Capitol." I personally 
 know that this leader advised in the whole 
 matter, and that his advice was generally 
 taken. He was looked up to as the best man- 
 ager in the matter. I have it sir, in black 
 and white in my own house, that he was in 
 favor of it. I have even seen him since I 
 have been in this city within the last three 
 weeks distributing Revekdy Johnson's opin- 
 ion upon the subject of the removal. He 
 presented me with a copy. I personally 
 know that he obtained a copy of the act as it 
 passed, with all the objections of the presiding 
 officers, with the very object of going to 
 Washington and obtaining the opinion of 
 learned and legal gentleman upon the IcgaUty 
 of that bill. But, sir, after a few months we 
 find a denial by that gentleman, that he was 
 in favor of a removal at aU. He says he 
 thought it was a premature movement, and 
 that he thought it would fall still-born ; that 
 ho knew it would not succeed ; that he advised 
 accordingly; and he attributes the Avhole 
 movement to the Black Republicans. He 
 deserted his friends in that movement, 
 changed his course, and for what ? To ac- 
 complish a selfish end at the time — to accom- 
 plish his election as a member of this Con- 
 vention, thinking that that very election 
 would place him as " dictator " in the party, 
 wliich it has. In one sense of the word per- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 27. 
 
 127 
 
 haps it was a slirewd movement. He denied 
 that he was in favor of the removal, and said 
 he signed the bill reluctantly; that he was 
 driven to it because somebody in St. Paul 
 had threatened violence if he did, and that he 
 must show he was not a coward. Tliis de- 
 sertion of the friends of the removal will make 
 it impossible to accomplish that end for some 
 time to come. Now I submit, after men who 
 are the acknowledged leaders of that party, 
 have changed their views and course of ac- 
 tion upon so many questions of the day, 
 whether it is anything strange, after having 
 been once in favor of the immediate admission 
 of Minnesota into the Union, they should 
 tm"n about and try to prevent it ? Is it not 
 in exact accordance with the action of the 
 leaders of that party in the past ? They will 
 shift as many times as they think necessary 
 to accomplish some personal and party end. 
 
 Now, sir, I say the people should know 
 that such is their intention at tliis time ; that 
 they do intend to prevent, if possible, this 
 Territory from coming in as a State at this 
 time. And it is for this purpose and no other 
 tliat I have attempted to make a few remarks. 
 I presented the resolution to which I have 
 spoken, for the purpose of waking up the 
 people upon this subject, and having them 
 express their views in their various counties 
 and districts in condemnation of the course 
 the democratic leaders, and democratic party 
 are taking to accomplish selfish and party 
 objects. Ought the great interest of this 
 Territory to be sacrificed to the accomplish- 
 ment of these selfish objects ? Ought our 
 railroad, our commercial and our financial 
 interests be sacrificed to promote the perso- 
 nal ambition of some party leaders ? 
 
 I hope the resolution will be passed and 
 that each one of us will hereafter let our con- 
 stituents know fully what is transpiring here. 
 We stand in a position where we are cogni- 
 zant of all that transpires, and it is our duty 
 to let the people know what plottings are tak- 
 ing place against their interests. We are 
 here where we can find out all the movements 
 of tliat party before and since our organiza- 
 tion ; and we are perhaps better able to judge 
 what the object of those leaders are, than our 
 friends at home are, who are attending to 
 their own private affairs. The people at 
 home are under the impression that every 
 
 body is in favor of coming into the Union as 
 a State as soon as possible, and that there are 
 no politicians seeking to prevent it. I say 
 their minds should be disabused, and it is for 
 that purpose, and that purpose alone, that I 
 make these remarks to-day. 
 
 I move that this resolution lie upon the 
 table for the present. I \vish to hear others 
 upon it, and I make the motion in order to 
 give a favorable opportunity for discussing it. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the resolu- 
 tion was laid on the table. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. CLEGHORN, 
 (at one o'clock) the Convention adjourned 
 until two o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 The Convention met at two o'clock. 
 
 KEPORT OF COMMITTEE. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN, from the committee on the 
 Organization and Government of Cities and 
 Villages, made the following report which 
 was read a first and second time, and laid 
 upon the table to be printed, viz : 
 
 The committee on the Organization of Cities and 
 Villaf es, beg leave to report the following sec- 
 tion to be inserted in the Constitution : 
 Sectio.v 1. The Legislature shall grant no Act 
 of Incorporation establishing the form of a city 
 government for any place or portion of territory, 
 which at the time does not contain a resident popu- 
 lation of not less than three thousand. Xor shall 
 the Legislature grant any special act for the incor- 
 poration of any town or village which does not at 
 the time contain a . resident population of not less 
 than five hundred. 
 All of which is respectfully submitted. 
 
 PEEAMBLE AND BILL OF RIGHTS. 
 
 On motion of Mr. SECOMBE, the Conven- 
 tion resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole, on the report of the committee on. the 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights. (Mr. Morgan 
 in the Chair), and resumed the consideration 
 of said bill at the point where the committee 
 left it at its last sitting. The pending ques- 
 tion being upon the amendment to the thir- 
 teenth section, offered by Mr. Wilson to add 
 thereto the words — 
 
 " The jury or commissioners assessing the dam- 
 ages shall not take into consideration any advan- 
 tage which may arise to the owner on account of 
 the improvement for which it is taken." 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I move to amend the 
 amendment by adding thereto the foUowing : 
 
 " And no property shall be taken possession of 
 for public use until the damages assessed shall 
 have been tendered." 
 
li 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, Jlly 27. 
 
 The amendment to the amendment was re- 
 jected. 
 
 The amendment was not agi*eed to. 
 Mr. CLEGIIORN. I move that the com- 
 mittee now rise and report the report to the 
 Convention. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I will move an amend- 
 ment, which I presume the gentleman will ac- 
 cept, and that is, withi a recommendation that 
 the various amendments made by the com- 
 mittee of the Whole be adopted. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I accept the amendment. 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 So the committee rose, and the President 
 having resumed the Chair, the Chairman of 
 the committee reported that the committee 
 had had imder consideration the report of the 
 standing committee to whom was referred 
 that portion of the Constitution relating to 
 the Preamble and Bill of Rights, that they 
 had made sundry amendments thfireto, and 
 had directed him to report the same to the 
 Convention, with a reconmiendation that the 
 amendments be agreed to. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Under the rule I'believe 
 the report lies over one day before it can be 
 acted upon. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. After a bill is reported 
 back to the Convention from the committee 
 of the Whole, the first question is upon the 
 adoption of the amendments recommended 
 by such coumiittee, vmless some other dispo- 
 sition of the report be made. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. The Chairman of the 
 committee (Mr. Coggswell) who reported this 
 Preamble and Bill of Rights is not now here 
 to give his reasons in favor of the various sec- 
 tions of this report. A good many other 
 members are also absent to-day, and it seems 
 to me that when we take final action upon 
 this part of the Constitution there should be 
 as many members present as we can get to- 
 gether at any one time. I therefore move 
 that the report do lie upon the table. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the report 
 was laid upon the table. 
 
 EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENT. 
 
 On motion of Mr. BATES, the Convention 
 resolved itself into a committee of the Whole. 
 (Mr. NoBTii in the chair) upon the report of 
 the committee to whom was referred that jjart 
 of the Constitution relating to the Executive 
 Department. 
 
 The report was read by sections for con- 
 sideration and amendment. 
 {For report^ see proceedings of 22d July.) 
 Section 1. The executive power shall be vested 
 in a Governor, who shall hold his office for two 
 years. A Lieutenant Governor shall be elected at 
 the same time, and for the same term. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move to strike out 
 " two" and insert " three." 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Sec. 2. No person except a citizen of the United 
 States, shall be eligible to the office of Governor, 
 nor shall any person be eligible to that office, who 
 has not attained the age of thirty years, and who 
 shall not have been one year next preceding his 
 election, a resident within the State, or a resident 
 at the time of the adoption of this Constitution. 
 
 Mr. HOLLEY. I move to amend that sec- 
 tion by striking out the words " citizen of the 
 " United States," and insert " citizen of this 
 " State." 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BOBBINS. I move to amend by strik- 
 ing out all after the word " State" in the fifth 
 line. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. The clause proposed to 
 to be stricken out was inserted by the com- 
 mittee with reference to the election of the 
 first Governor, as there might be a question 
 whether there would be any person eligible to 
 the office of Governor, at the first election, 
 without that clause. The preceding part re- 
 quires the person to have been a resident of 
 the State for one year next preceding his elec- 
 tion. There could probably be no person 
 having 'that qualification at our first election 
 of State officers. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I move to strike out the 
 word " one" and insert " three." 
 
 If this Constitution were not expected to 
 remain in force for a number of years I should 
 not wish the change I propose. But in a few 
 years from this I do not think it would be 
 well or proper that a man coming into our 
 State and being a resident for only one year, 
 should be eligible to the office of Governor. 
 We could not become sufficiently acquainted 
 with such a man in that length of time. I 
 think, too, that the one year resident qualifi- 
 cation is unprecedented. I have not particu- 
 larly examined the point, but I do not recollect 
 of ever seeing it before. Whether there is a 
 precedent or not, I do not think it is proper. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 27. 
 
 129 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I move to amend by strik- 
 ing out the word " thirty" and inserting 
 " twenty-five. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. Of course I supposed that 
 every member who had attained the age of 
 thirty would vote against my amendment. 
 (Laughter.) 
 
 CLEGHORN. I move to strike out the 
 word " thirty" and insert " twenty-one." 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. DICKERSON moved to strike out the 
 word " one" and insert " two." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I move to strike out 
 the words " who has not attained the age of 
 thirty years." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I rise to a point of order. 
 We have voted down one amendment equiva- 
 lent to that, and I contend that this amend- 
 ment is not in order. 
 
 Mr. B-U.COMBE. I believe that an amend- 
 ment to strike out certain words is not equiva- 
 lent to a motion to strike out and insert 
 others in their place. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair thinks the 
 point of order is not well taken. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I caU for the reading of 
 the thirty -ninth rule. 
 
 The rule was read as follows : 
 " A motion to strike out and insert shall be 
 deemed indivisible ; but a motion to strike out 
 being lost shall neither preclude amendment, nor 
 a motion to strike out and insert." 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair thinks that 
 the amendment is in order. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I am pretty positive 
 that I am correct in the position that after a 
 motion has been made to strike out and 
 insert, I have the right to make the simple 
 motion to strike out without inserting any- 
 thing. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Ordinarily I should not 
 differ with the gentleman from "Winona upon 
 that point. But I put my objection now upon 
 the principle that where the committee have 
 refused to adopt a certain amendment, the 
 same amendment or an equivalent one cannot 
 be offered, the committee having expressed 
 their wish that such an amendment shall not 
 be adopted. Now an amendment was offered 
 to strike out *' thirty," and insert " twenty- 
 17 
 
 one," which would make any person of the 
 age of twenty-one years eligible to the office 
 of Governor, if he had the other qualifica- 
 tions. The amendment now offered by the 
 gentleman from TTinona is to the same 
 effect. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I believe the Chair 
 decided my amendment in order. I am 
 opposed to putting any restraint upon the 
 action of the people in the election of their 
 servants, but I am in favor of putting into 
 the Constitution all possible restrictions upon 
 the actions and movements of the servants 
 themselves, upon the Legislature, the Gover- 
 nor, the Secretary, and all other officers. I 
 am as ready and anxious to restrict the action 
 of those officers as perhaps any gentleman 
 upon this floor, but I would not restrict the 
 people themselves, in the election of their 
 servants. They should have a firee choice. 
 If they desire to elect a man twenty -one, 
 twenty -five, or fifty years of age, let them 
 do so. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I agree with the gentle- 
 man who has last spoken, and I do not see 
 any good reason why a man twenty-one 
 twenty-two, or twenty-three years of age, 
 should not have the privilege of being elected 
 Governor if the people desire it ; for I take it 
 that the people would not elect such a man 
 unless he was qualified for the office. I find 
 by reference to the Constitution of Wisconsin 
 there is no limit as to age in reference to the 
 eligibility of Governor. I believe the people 
 of Minnesota are as intelligent as any other 
 people, and wiU know when a man is quali- 
 fied to discharge the duties of the office of 
 Governor. I am in favor of " Young Amer- 
 ica" myself and of giving my fi:iend Davis 
 here a chance, believing that he is K, and 
 all " right on the goose." 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I thank the gentleman for 
 his kind offer for support, but I will inform 
 him that I do not expect to be a candidate 
 this &11, but shall wait imtil the next election, 
 and I suggest that if this gentleman himself 
 should happen to be a candidate for the office, 
 I warrant him the support of all " Young 
 America;" and I would also suggest to gen- 
 tlemen who voted against the amendment, 
 adopting twenty-one years, that they had 
 better look at home and see if they have not 
 some " Young Americans " in their region, 
 
180 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Mondat, July 27. 
 
 and if they have, I hope to mercy, they wiU 
 all be found arrayed against those who adhere 
 to the thirty year quaUtication. I am in favor 
 of the amendment, and I think there ai'e many 
 men who have attained the age of twenty- 
 one, who are as well qualified, as those who 
 have attained the age of thirty. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I think that the idea that 
 a man is as well qualified for office at the age 
 of twenty-one as he is at thirty, is not saying 
 much for progression. We know from our 
 general knowledge of things, that few men at 
 twenty-one know enough about government, 
 or know enough about htmian nature, to resist 
 those snares and temptations which are 
 thrown around Governors. I go with all my 
 heart for thirty years, and I do not believe 
 that one out of a thousand is qualified for 
 that office before he arrives at that age. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I would inform the gentle- 
 man that I said rnany men, not all men. And 
 by the way, I take it tliat the gentleman is 
 above the age of thirty. (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. BATES. I am as much in favor of 
 the liberty of the people as any man, but I 
 think that this restriction is a wise one. The 
 feeling of Young America among us is quite 
 prominent, and vmder the excitement of that 
 feeling, an incompetent man might be pre- 
 sented as an independent candidate, and 
 might be elected, when there would be no 
 chance for him if this restriction is imposed. 
 If we are to throw aside this limit, why, I 
 say throw aside all limits. Why make two 
 years residence a qualification, and why re- 
 quire a man to be a certain time within the 
 Tenitory ? If one restriction is to be taken 
 off, I go for taking off all restrictions. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I am in favor of per- 
 mitting the people, if they see fit to do so in 
 their sovereign capacity, to elect any legal 
 voter, I am perfectly willing that they 
 should act their pleasure in that matter. I 
 think that the qualification of two years resi- 
 dence should also be stricken out. If a man 
 has become a legal voter he ought to be eligi- 
 ble to any office in the State. 
 
 I disclaim any connection with this particu- 
 lar anxiety about Young America, and I hope 
 this question will not be decided upon that 
 point. I hope it will be decided upon the 
 principle of giving the people their own desire 
 in this matter, and that they will be permit- 
 
 ted to act freely without restriction or 
 restraint. 
 
 Mr. DICKERSON. As a general thing 
 our judgments are much more mature at the 
 age of thirty than they are at twenty-one or 
 twenty-five, and for my part I hope the 
 amendment will not prevail. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. If the idea "of the Con- 
 vention is to encourage and foster Young 
 America, why not go down to the age of ten 
 years or thereabouts. They are more Young 
 Americans from ten to twenty-one than at 
 any other time. The idea that the people- 
 should have the greatest liberty, would apply 
 just as well to all other provisions of the Con- 
 stitution as to this. Take away your Bill of 
 Rights and remove the Constitution itself, for 
 they are restrictions thrown around the 
 actions of the people, and say that the people 
 may settle those matters hereafter. If they 
 wish the writ of habeas corpus suspended 
 during time of war, let them suspend it. If 
 they want dueling established here, let them 
 establish it. Do not throw any restrictions 
 in the way of the people. Now that argu- 
 ment ought not to weigh in the mind of the 
 Convention. There may be cases where a 
 man at the age of twenty-one may be better 
 qualified for the office of Governor than some 
 who may get into the Governor's chair at the 
 age of thirty. But if any time is to be set, 
 this Convention ought to resolve that a man 
 is qualified for that office at the age of thirty 
 if he is ever qualified. It seems to me that as 
 a general tjiing, men do not become sufficiently 
 mature for that office until the age of thirt}^, 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. In the Bill of Rights 
 we guarantee to the people certain rights, 
 and we refuse to bestow upon the Legislature, 
 upon the Judges, and the rulers, the right or 
 power of taking from them certain liberties, 
 and certain inalienable rights. But that is a 
 different matter altogether from what is pro- 
 posed in this section. Tliis is saying to the 
 people that though they should be in favor of 
 a certain person for Governor, they shall not 
 have him, unless he is of a certain age. In 
 the Bill of Rights we guarantee the people 
 certain rights against those whom they clothe 
 with a little authority. That is proper for us 
 to do, and, as I said before, I would go as 
 far as any man to restrain the actions of 
 those rulers and servants. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 2T. 
 
 181 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. The office of Governor 
 will be % highest in the gift of the people, 
 and it seems to me that it will be no favor to 
 the young man to advance liini to the top- 
 most round of the ladder at the outset. If 
 there is a man of ability in the State of the 
 age of twenty -one years, his services will be 
 wanted by the State for many years, but if 
 he is advanced to the highest office at once, it 
 \Y\]1 be readily seen that liis services will not 
 be enjoyed by the State for so long a time as 
 they would be if he passed through the sub- 
 ordinate offices first It is an old remark 
 that the captain of a vessel, who creeps in at 
 the cabin window, is not so well qualified to 
 command a ship, as he who advances through 
 successive grades up to captain. So it is in 
 regard to the office of Governor. He should 
 have experience, and be prepared for the office 
 by taking the preparatory steps. 
 
 The question was taken on Mr. Balcombe's 
 amendment, and it was not agi'eed to. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I move to strike out the 
 word " state" where it last occurs, and insert 
 the word " territory," and strike out the bal- 
 ance of the section. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I shall be obliged to 
 oppose that amendment upon the same ground 
 that the gentleman from VTinona advocated 
 the other. If the people choose to elect a 
 Governor who has not been a resident of the 
 Territory more than a year or six months, 
 they ought to have the right to do so. Had 
 the one year residence qualification been 
 retained, I should not be so much opposed to 
 the amendment. If the amendment should 
 be adopted, no man can be elected Governor 
 at the first election who has not been a resi- 
 dent for two years. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 Mr. WILSON. I move to strike out the 
 whole section and insert — 
 
 " Xo person shall be eligible to the office of 
 Governor, who has not been a resident of the 
 Territory two years, and who is not a citizen of the 
 United States, or who shall not be a resident of 
 this State at the time of the adoption of this 
 Constitution." 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 Sec. 7. The Lieutenant-Governor shall possess 
 the same qualifications of eligibility for office as the 
 Governor. He shall be President of the Senate, 
 but shall only have a casting vote therein. If 
 during a vacancy of the office of Governor, the 
 Lieutenant-Governor shall be impeached, dis- 
 
 placed, resign, die, or become incapable of per- 
 forming the duties of his office, or be absent from 
 the State, the President of the Senate shall act as 
 Governor until the vacancy be filled, or the disa- 
 bility shall cease. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move that the seventh 
 section be stricken out. My object is not to 
 get rid of the whole of that section. If it is 
 stricken out, I shall move, when the next 
 section comes up for consideration, to insert 
 in it such parts of this section as I wish to 
 retain. I am opposed to the Lieutenant Gov- 
 ernor acting as President of the Senate. I 
 believe every deliberative body should have 
 the right of selecting then- own presiding 
 officer. It is very important that there should 
 always exist a good feeling and understand- 
 ing between the presiding officer of a deliber- 
 ative body and a majority of the members. 
 The Lieutenant Governor is usually nomina- 
 ted with a particular view to his qualifications 
 for the executive department, whereas • the 
 President of the Senate should be elected with 
 a view to his qualifications as a presiding 
 officer. Now the qualifications for the two 
 offices are entirely unlike. A man may be a 
 good executive officer, and yet be entirely 
 unqualified to be a good presiding officer of a 
 a deliberative body» while on the other hand 
 a man who has those peculiar qualities and 
 talents which fit him for a presiding officer, 
 may lack the qualities of an executive officer. 
 
 And not only that, but this report provides 
 that the Governor and the Lieutenant-Gover- 
 nor shall hold their offices for two years. If 
 this section is adopted it may happen that we 
 shall have a presiding officer of the Senate 
 whose political \aews may be opposed to those 
 of a majority of the Senate. It may be that 
 when the Lieutenant-Governor and the Senate 
 are elected, they may be of the same political 
 views, but it may happen that during the first 
 year vacancies may occur in the Senate, and 
 when the vacancies are filled, the political 
 complexion of the majority may be changed, 
 and thereby the President of the Senate and 
 a majority of the Senate wovild be of diffijrent 
 political parties. Now I hold that the Senate 
 should have the privilege of electing a presi- 
 ding officer of their own political views. 
 
 I hope the committee will consider the 
 matter fully and carefully before they act 
 upon it. There are other views which might 
 be urged against making the Lieutenant- 
 
182 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 27. 
 
 Governor President of the Senate, but these 
 are suflBcient, I think, to induce the committee 
 to vote to strike out this section. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I hope the motion will 
 not prevail, not so much that I am opposed to 
 innovation, as that I think that the more 
 stability we can give to deliberative bodies the 
 better, so far as the formation of this Consti- 
 tution is concerned. I hope every member of 
 this body will lay aside all political con- 
 siderations. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I hope the motion will 
 prevail. I am not only in favor of the people 
 electing the President of the Senate, but I am 
 also in favor of their electing the Speaker of 
 the House of Representatives. I think the 
 presiding officer should feel himself under 
 obligation to every part and every portion of 
 the State, and should not be the particular 
 and immediate representative of any particular 
 portion of it. Having had some experience 
 in these matters, and having set one session 
 as a member of the Cooncil under a presiding 
 officer, when a particular question came before 
 that body, I came to the conclusion that as a 
 general rule the people would elect better 
 presiding officers than the body itself, because 
 it will be the object of the people to nominate 
 men peculiarly fitted for that office, in order 
 that they may bring strength to the ticket 
 upon which they run. If so elected, he would 
 be more impartial, and less under obligation 
 to particular localities. The election of officers 
 of the Senate and House of Representatives 
 are generally conducted upon the principle of 
 " you vote for me and my candidate, and I 
 "will vote for you and your candidate." It 
 is the buy and sell system — a sort of log- 
 rolling. A man is not generally elected 
 because he is better qualified for that position 
 than any other member of the body, but 
 probably because he may be a little shrewder 
 in seeking for the station, or because he has 
 the advantage of locality. And generally he 
 is elected under the influence of those in the 
 government, wherever it is. This may not, 
 to the iminitiated appear to be so, but it is 
 nevertheless the case, and I want to see the 
 election of these officers put out of the reach 
 of a few individuals, a few political tricksters 
 who may be hanging around. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN, I simply desire to say, 
 as the gentleman's main objection is, that the 
 
 election of officers by the bodies themselves 
 is a system of log-rolling, traffic and trade, 
 that I do not believe there ever was a system 
 of log-rolling, traffic and trade, carried on in 
 the election of a presiding officer to a greater 
 extent than in political caucuses and conven- 
 tions. It may not be done in precisely the 
 same manner, but it will be done upon the 
 principle of "if you will vote for a man from 
 " my section for this office, I will vote for a 
 ' ' man from your section for that office.' ' And 
 the system will be carried on to a greater 
 extent too, because those caucuses will be 
 larger than the caucuses in these bodies. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. In eveiy State of the 
 Union where they have a Lieutenant-Governor, 
 he is by law made President of the Senate, 
 except in the State of Rhode Island. So also 
 the Vice-President of the United States is 
 President of the Senate of the United States. 
 The committee inserted this section because 
 its provisions were recommended to them by 
 the practice of all the States. Unless he is 
 made President of the Senate, I should be in 
 favor of striking out from the report every- 
 thing that relates to him. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I move to amend by 
 striking out the words, 
 
 " He shall be President of the Senate, but shall 
 have only a casting vote therein." 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I withdraw, then, my 
 amendment, and allow the question to be 
 taken upon the one just oflfered. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. The objection is made 
 that the President of the Senate may be of a 
 different political party than the majority of 
 the body. But I take it for granted that the 
 members of that body are to be elected for 
 the same time with the Governor and Lieu- 
 tenant-Governor, But whether that is the 
 case or not, I do not see that it makes any 
 great difference if he should belong to an- 
 other party. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. It may be true that they 
 would be elected the same year, and yet a 
 majority of the Senate, elected by districts, 
 might be of a different political complexion 
 from the Lieutenant-Governor, who is elected 
 by a general ticket. It should also be remem- 
 bered that the President of the Senate has the 
 appointment of committees. If he belongs to 
 a different political party, his friends will 
 demand that he shall favor them upon the 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, Jcly 27. 
 
 133 
 
 committees, and that a majority of his political 
 friends shall be appointed upon them. It 
 does seem to me improper that a presiding 
 oflBcer should belong to a different political 
 party from that of a majority of the body 
 over which he presides. Suppose that this 
 year a Lieutenant-Governor is elected by the 
 people of the State, and he and the Senate 
 agree in politics. But vacancies may occur 
 during the year in the Senate. At our next 
 annual election we fill those vacancies by the 
 election of men of a different party from those 
 who occupied the seats at the time the 
 Lieutenant-Governor was elected. Then dur- 
 ing the second year that officer presided over 
 the Senate, he would not agree with them in 
 political views. Such a case may occur, for 
 the political opinions of the people may 
 change, and that change may be manifested 
 in filling those vacancies. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. It seems to me that we 
 are providing for three offices to be filled by 
 two officers. In case the Grovemor dies, the 
 Lieutenant-Governor fiUs his place, and then 
 he holds two offices — that of Governor, and 
 President of the Senate. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. As far as any incon- 
 sistency arising from the language of this 
 section is concerned, I think it is all correct. 
 It provides that if a vacancy shall occurr in 
 the office of Governor, the Lieutenant- 
 Governor shall be Governor of the State, and 
 of course he cannot be President of the 
 Senate. The Senate then appoints one of then- 
 own body President. If, during a vacancy 
 in the office of Governor, the Lieutenant- 
 Governor shall be impeached die or resign, 
 then the President of the Senate who shall 
 preside at the time, vrill be the Chief Executive 
 officer of the State. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. The construction of the 
 words in this section is similar to the construc- 
 tion of similar provisions in the Constitutions 
 of the different States, and I believe it is 
 verbatim the same as the section upon the 
 same subject in the Constitution of the State 
 of New York. The committee do not claim 
 much ori^ality in this report. Its provisions 
 have been copied mainly from the Consti- 
 tutions of other States. When the Governor 
 dies the Lieutenant-Governor becomes Gov- 
 ernor, de facto ^ and then a President of the 
 Senate is chosen by that body itself, and he, 
 
 in case of the death of the Lieutenant- 
 Governor, becomes Governor. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. The provision in the 
 New York Constitution is in these words : 
 
 " The Lieutenant-Governor shall not possess the 
 same qualifications of eligibility for office as the 
 Governor. He shall be President of the Senate 
 but shall only have a casting vote therein. If dur- 
 ing a vacancy of the office of Governor, the Lieu- 
 tenant Governor shall be impeached, displaced, 
 resign, die, or be absent from the State, the Presi- 
 dent of the Senate shall act as Governor, untd the 
 vacancy be filled or the disability shall cease." 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. It seems to me that 
 notwithstanding that is taken from the Con- 
 stitution of New York, difficulties may arise 
 in its practical working. Perhaps no difficul- 
 ties have arisen there, but still a difficulty 
 may arise TVe will suppose the legislative 
 session has adjourned, and immediately after 
 the adjournment, the Governor dies. The 
 Lieutenant Governor of course assumes the 
 position of Governor. Then the Senate have 
 no President. Now suppose while the Lieu- 
 tenant Governor is acting as Governor, he is 
 impeached or should die, what will you do ? 
 The provision says the President of the Sen- 
 ate shall be the Governor; but the Senate 
 have no President as they have not been in 
 session since the death of the Governor. 
 
 Perhaps no such event as that has transpired 
 in New York but there is a liability of it. But 
 I did not propose to occupy further time in 
 discussion. The gentleman says that Rhode 
 Island is the only State in which the Lieuten- 
 ant Governor does not act as President of the 
 Senate. I can inform the gentleman that 
 Massachusetts always elects a President of 
 the Senate, and she has a Lieutenant Gover- 
 nor also. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I think I can explain the 
 mode in which the difficulty suggested by the 
 gentleman is obviated. Before the adjourn- 
 ment of the Senate of the New York Legis- 
 lature, it is always customary for the Lieuten- 
 ant Governor, who is the presiding officer of 
 that body, to withdraw for an hour or so be- 
 fore the adjournment, and a temporary Pres- 
 ident is always chosen. That too, I believe, 
 is the practice in the Senate of the United 
 States. 
 
 ilr. ALDRICH. I would remark that if 
 a majority of the Senate are politically op- 
 posed to the Lieutenant Governor, they can 
 
134 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 27. 
 
 at any time take the power of the appoint- 
 ment of committees out of his hands. 
 
 The question was then taken upon the 
 amendment and it was not agreed to. 
 
 Sec. 8. The Lieutenant-Governor shall, while 
 acting as such, receive a compensation which shall 
 be fixed by law, and Avhicli shall not be increased 
 or diminished during his continuance in office. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move to amend that 
 section by striking out the words "continu- 
 *' ance in" and insert in lieu thereof the words 
 " term of." 
 
 The amendment was adopted. 
 
 Sec. 9. Every bill which shall have passed the 
 Senate and the House of Representatives, shall, 
 before it becomes a law, be presented to the Gov- 
 ernor; if he approve, he shall sign it; but if not, 
 he shall return it with the objections to that House 
 in which it shall have originated, who shall enter 
 the objections at large on their journal, and pro- 
 ceed to reconsider it. If after such reconsidera- 
 tion, two-thirds of the members present shall 
 agree to pass the bill, it shall be sent, together 
 with the objections, to the other House, by which 
 it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved 
 by two-thirds of all the members present, it shall 
 become a law, notwithstanding the objections of 
 the Governor. But in all such cases the votes of 
 both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, 
 and the names of the members voting for and 
 against the bill, shall be entered on the journal of 
 each House respectively. If any bill shall not be 
 returned by the Governor within three days (Sun- 
 days excepted) after it shall have been presented 
 to him, the same shall be a law, in like manner as 
 if he had signed it, unless the Legislature shall, 
 by their adjournment, prevent the return; in 
 which case it shall not be a law. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move to strike out 
 section nine. My reason is this : that the 
 section seems to me more properly to belong 
 under the head of the Legislative Department, 
 and a similar section has been incorporated 
 into the report of the committee upon that 
 department. The duties which devolve upon 
 the Governor are rather legislative than ex- 
 ecutive. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I want to know if the 
 Governor does anything but what is execu- 
 tive? 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. It seems to me that a 
 section defining the duties of Governor should 
 come under the head of the Executive De- 
 partment. That is the head under which tliis 
 provision is usually found in most Constitu- 
 tions, It is true that the same subject has 
 been reported upon by another committee. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. VAUGHN. As this report has now 
 been gone through with, I move to go back 
 and amend the third section adding to the 
 section the words : 
 
 " The returns of election for Governor and Lieu- 
 tenant-Governor shall be made in such manner as 
 shall be provided by law." 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. How are the returns to 
 be made at the first election ? 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. That will have no bear- 
 ing upon the first election, and does not pro- 
 vide for the difficulties which arise in making 
 the returns of that election, and after that 
 time the returns will have to be made accord- 
 ing to law anyway. I see no necessity for 
 the amendment. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I think the difficulty 
 in regard to the first election can be obviated 
 when we come to the consideration of the 
 schedule. That is the proper place for it, but 
 tliis is not. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. This Constitution will 
 be all the law we shall have upon the matter. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. It seems to me that this 
 amendment would complicate the difficulties. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. By inserting it here, it 
 only leaves the matter open for future Legis- 
 latures to prescribe the manner in which the 
 returns shall be made. It cannot injuriously 
 effect the returns of the first election of Gov- 
 ernor, because this constitution will be the 
 law and the only law upon the subject. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I am in favor of the 
 present amendment, but gentlemen ask the 
 question, what shall^be done with the returns 
 of the first election. I think that matter can 
 appropriately be considered and arranged un- 
 der the head of Schedule. It should not be 
 inserted here but should be left for a separate 
 article. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I move, as an amendment 
 to the amendment, the insertion of the words 
 "all elections after the first." That will 
 settle the question which has arisen here. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I am opposed to that. 
 I still insist that there should not be a word 
 in the body of the Constitution as to the 
 transition State — the manner in which we 
 shall change our form of government — until 
 we come to the Schedule. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. The original amendment 
 applies to all elections after the first, and the 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Mondat, July 27. 
 
 135 
 
 question arises whether it would have any ap- 
 plication to the first or not. To save that 
 question I moved my amendment. I believe 
 that it is not unusual to have such words in 
 Constitutions. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The amendment can- 
 not be considered imtil it is passed up in 
 writing. 
 
 The question was taken on Mr. Vacgex's 
 amendment and it was lost. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I move to amend the first 
 section by inserting after the word "years," 
 the words *' and until his successor shall be 
 "qualified," so as to make the Governor's 
 office continue until the qualification of his 
 successor. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. I move to amend the 
 ninth section by striking out the words " two- 
 thirds" wherever they occur, and insert in 
 heu thereof the word "majority" so as to 
 allow a majority of both Houses to pass a 
 bill over the Governor's veto. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS moved to strike out the 
 words " shall have" in the same section, so 
 that it should read " shall retmrn it to the 
 " House in which it originated." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I now move that the com- 
 mittee rise and report the report and amend- 
 ments to the Convention with a recommenda- 
 tion that they be adopted. 
 
 The motion was carried. 
 
 The committee accordingly rose and through 
 their Chairman [Mr. NortS] reported back 
 the report and amendments, with a recom- 
 mendation that they be adopted. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I move that the report 
 be laid upon the table, and that it be made the 
 special order of the day for Thursday next. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. Is that motion deba- 
 table? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair thinks not. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I understand that the 
 Convention has accepted the report. Now, 
 sir, I do not rise to a question of order, but I 
 do consider it a great evil to have a report, 
 when made to the Convention, lie over for 
 several days before it is considered. The 
 report of the committee, laid upon our desks 
 does not contain the amendments which have 
 been made by the committee of the Whole. 
 
 They are only in our memories, as it were, 
 and I submit to you and to others, if it is not 
 the usual and the better course to concur in 
 the amendments made in committee of the 
 "Whole, immediately upon the reception of the 
 report and amendments? All these amend- 
 ments are now fresh in our minds, and to 
 delay their consideration to a subsequent day, 
 is a loose and careless way of doing business^ 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. It seems to me that while 
 the matter is fresh in our minds we had bet- 
 ter go to work and dispose of it. "We have 
 time to go through tliis report to-day. If we 
 do so, we shall be ready in the morning to 
 take up something else. I hope the gentle- 
 man will withdraw his motion unless there is 
 some good reason for it. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I think myself it is better 
 to go on now. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I do not withdraw the 
 motion. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 The Convention then proceeded to the con- 
 sideration of the amendments as follows : 
 First amendment. — Insert after the word "years" 
 in the second line of the first section, the words 
 " and until his successor shall be appointed." 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 
 Second amendment. — Strike out the word "one" 
 in the first section, and insert the word " two," so 
 as to require two years residence as a qualifier- ^ 
 
 tion for Governor, 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I hope the amendment 
 will not be concurred in. It seems to me 
 that the people of this State ought to have the 
 privilege of electing a man who has been in 
 the State twenty or twenty-two months if 
 they choose to do so. This Territory has 
 been very recently settled, and many of its 
 inhabitants have been here but comparatively 
 a short time, and therefore it seems to me 
 that we ought not to be restricted to two years 
 residence. I think one year's residence is 
 sufficient. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I would rather have two 
 years than one, and three years than two. 
 This Constitution will probably last for years, 
 and after a while when our State becomes 
 settled, it will be impossible for the people to 
 obtain that knowledge of a candidate for Gov- 
 ernor, who has been in the State one year, 
 as will enable them to vote intelligently. That 
 is a very short time. Some demagogue may 
 come among us and get the nomination, whom 
 
136 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 27. 
 
 we are not acquainted with, and who ought 
 not to be elected. 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 
 Third amendment. — Strike out the words "con- 
 tinuance in," and insert the words "term of." 
 
 Mr. NORTH. There may be some ques- 
 tion whether that would refer to the time 
 he is acting as Governor, or when he is 
 in his position of Lieutenant • Governor. 
 Should not the section read — "The Lieu- 
 tenant Governor shall, while acting "as 
 Governor, receive" &c. I move to amend 
 so that the section shall read in that manner. 
 
 The PKESIDENT. The Chair would sug- 
 gest that while acting as Governor, he would 
 receive the compensation fixed by law for 
 Governor. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Then as there are no duties 
 assigned to the Lieutenant Governor, I shall, 
 at the proper time, move to strike out the 
 provisions relating to that oflBcer entirely. 
 
 Mr. ALDRIOH. The seventh section pro- 
 vides that he shall be President of the Sen- 
 ate, and while he serves in such capacity, he 
 shall receive a salary. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I was under the impression 
 that that provision had been striken out. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. The amendment to that 
 effect was rejected. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. The same provision as to 
 the compensation of the Governor occurs at 
 the end of the fourth section. The words of 
 that provision were taken either from the 
 Constitution of New York, or that of Wis- 
 consin. It seems tome that the words "term 
 of" do not materially alter the matter. 
 But there may be some question as to whether 
 his "term of office," and "continuance in 
 oflSce," apply to the same period of time. ' I 
 think it safer to leave the matter as it is in 
 the section. 
 
 Mr. ST ANN ARD. According to the amend- 
 ment which has been adopted to the first 
 section, the Governor holds his oJBfice two 
 years. That I understand to be his term of 
 office ; though it also provides that he shall 
 hold his office until his successor shall be 
 qualified. Now if the Legislature, during the 
 two years for which he was elected, should 
 increase the salary of his successor, and the 
 person subsequently elected should refuse to 
 qualify, I am not disposed to deprive the Gov- 
 ernor who holds on to the ofiBce, of the emol- 
 
 uments which result in consequence of the 
 additional increased pay so provided for. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Fourth Amendment. — In section nine strike out 
 the words, " shall have," so as to make the clause 
 read, "shall return it with his objections to tlie 
 house in which it originated." 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I hope the amendment 
 will not prevail. It seems to me that the 
 phraseology is much better than it is now, 
 and I am not entirely clear but it conveys the 
 same idea. I do not think a bill originates 
 anything. It is itself originated^ and I think 
 that the words, as they are, should be 
 retained. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I think the section, as it 
 is printed is gramatically correct. It has 
 reference to the action of future Legislatures, 
 and not to past ones. It relates to some 
 action which shall have been performed by 
 by some future Legislature. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I hope, by all means, that 
 this amendment will not be concurred in. I 
 think the section is correctly worded, and for 
 the reasons assigned by the gentleman who 
 last spoke. It says : 
 
 " But if not, he shall return it with his objections 
 to that house in which it shall have originated." 
 — In which it shall, prior to^that future time, 
 have originated. It is evidently good gram- 
 mar, and would not be if amended. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I find the same words in 
 the Constitution of the United States in refer- 
 ence to the same matter. I also find it in the 
 Constitutions of New York and Wisconsin. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I think there can be no 
 doubt but what there is a difference in the 
 idea conveyed by the two expressions, and it 
 seems to me very improper to concur in the 
 amendment. The language of the Consti- 
 tution of the United States is as significant as 
 it can be, and it i^ the same language as is 
 contained in this section. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I do not understand that 
 the gentlemen who have undertaken to give 
 a grammatical construction to this language 
 are grammarians by any means, though they 
 may have blimdered upon the truth. But 
 we should use, in all instruments, just those 
 words which convey our ideas clearly, and no 
 others. The ofiice of grammar is to lop ofT 
 superfiuous language, and to convey in direct 
 and clear language our meaning, so that it 
 shall not be susceptible* of any misconception- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 27. 
 
 137 
 
 Now the fact that the words " shall have " 
 are used in other instruments, is no reason, of 
 itself, why we should use it. " It originated," 
 conveys a perfect idea in itself, and of course 
 it originated, and originated before it was sent 
 to the Governor. Because the Constitution 
 of the United States, and some Constitutions 
 of the States, contain the words, is no reason, 
 in my judgment, for their retention here. 
 
 These same gentlemen say we are pro- 
 gressing, yet they must go back, and like 
 certain persons in Pennsylvania, who, because 
 their fathers balanced a grist on one side of 
 the horse by putting a stone on the other, 
 forsooth must still carry a stone to balance 
 their grist now. They go back to the Consti- 
 tution of the United States, and say that 
 because they find those words there, therefore 
 we must have them here. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I am opposed to the 
 amendment for two reasons. One is, because 
 the language of the section appears to be in 
 accordance with the Constitution of the United 
 States. That Constitution was drafted with 
 great care, by men of learning and ability, 
 and we may natvirally conclude that they 
 found the very best language that could be 
 found. But that is not the principal reason 
 why I oppose the amendment. It is because 
 the words used in the original section are used 
 in Murray's grammar, and in every other 
 grammar that has ever been published since 
 the world began, in exactly the sense in which 
 we propose to use them. There are proper 
 words for every place, and it strikes me that 
 the words used here are in accordance with 
 grammar, and express the meaning intended. 
 Mr. STANNARD. I supposed that the 
 gentleman who made the motion to amend, 
 did so as pastime, and to create fun and 
 excitement. But it seems that he was in 
 earnest. Now, sir, I studied grammar once, 
 and it does appear to me that whenever 
 we wish to express the idea, which all 
 admit we intend to convey here, the past 
 future tense should be used. Here we speak 
 of a future thing, and we use the potential 
 form — that the Grovemor shaU do so and so 
 at a future time, — and then we speak of some- 
 thing which happened prior to that future 
 time and this is the only language that I know 
 of that win convey that idea. 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 18 
 
 Mr. BATES. I would inquire whether it 
 would not be well to strike out the words, 
 "continuance in" and insert "term of," in 
 the last line of section four, which applies to 
 the Governor, so as to make it conform to the 
 language of the eighth section as amended, 
 which applies to the Lieutenant-Governor ? 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I would inquu^ of the 
 gentleman whether the words, " continuance 
 in," are not used in the Constitution of the 
 United States. (Laughter.). 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move that amendment. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I am opposed to the 
 amendment. There seems to be great doubt 
 whether there is any difference between the 
 two expressions. I should like to have it 
 remain as it is, so that we may hereafter 
 obtain the decision of the proper tribunal upon 
 that point. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. If I am elected to serve 
 two years in office, and serve six months, six 
 months is my continuance in office, but two 
 years is my term of office. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. It seems to me that there 
 may be a difference of meaning between the 
 two expressions. In the first section we have 
 provided that the Governor shall hold his 
 office two years, and until his successor shall 
 qualify. He may then hold his office for two 
 years and six months, while he was only 
 elected for two years, and his salary might be 
 changed after the expiration of the two years, 
 and during his continuance in office. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I would refer the gentle- 
 men to the language of article third, section 
 first of the Constitution of the United States, 
 which, speaking of the Judges of the Supreme 
 Court, declares that they shall receive for 
 their services a compensation which shall not 
 be diminished " during their continuance in 
 office." Now if there is any doubt, let us 
 remove it by using both expressions. In one 
 section we have adopted the words, "term 
 of;" and now let us be right, anyway, and 
 retain the words, " continuance in," in the 
 other section. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. We have provided that 
 the Governor shall hold his office, not only 
 during two years, but until his successor shall 
 be quaUfied. Suppose the Legislatiu-e shall 
 increase the salary of the Governor, to take 
 effect on and after the expiration of the term 
 of the incimibent. Now I would not jeopard- 
 
138 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, July 27. 
 
 ize that act of the Legislature by allowing 
 the words, " continuance in," to remain in 
 the Constitution. The person who is obliged 
 to remain in office should have the emolu- 
 ments of the office, and be entitled to the 
 increased salary allowed by the Legislature. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I differ with the gentle- 
 man who last spoke, as to what the term of 
 office of the Governor is. The language is 
 that— 
 
 " The executive power shall be vested in a Gov- 
 ernor, who shall hold his opce for two years, and 
 until his successor is qualified." 
 
 — The term is two years absolutely, and 
 contingently an additional length of time. So 
 that his term is the whole length of time he 
 actually holds office. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I hope the amendment 
 will not prevail, and that we shall re-consider 
 the vote by which we struck out these same 
 words from the eighth section. I prefer the 
 term used in the Constitution of the United 
 States. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I caU for the yeas and 
 nays upon the amendment. 
 
 The yeas and nays were refused. 
 
 The amendment was then rejected. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I now move to recon- 
 sider the vote by which the amendment to 
 the eighth section was adopted, striking out 
 " continuance in," and inserting " term of." 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I do not want to tres- 
 pass upon the patience of the Convention, 
 but I must say one word upon this matter. 
 I will suppose a plain case, and then leave 
 the matter. Suppose that the term of office 
 of the Governor of the State of Minnesota 
 expires on the first day of March 1865 : 
 Suppose the next preceding Legislature passes 
 an act increasing the salary of the Governor 
 $500, to take effect the day after the next 
 Governor should take his office ; and suppose 
 the Governor elect should fail to qualify at 
 that time and the Governor should hold over, 
 now under the wording of the section as it 
 originally was, — "continuance in office" — 
 that law would be unconstitutional, for the 
 Legislature cannot increase the pay during 
 his continuance in office. I submit the sub- 
 ject to the candid consideration of the Con- 
 vention. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. That clause from the 
 Constitution of the United States which has 
 
 been read here, happens to be as inapplicable to 
 this case, as something read from Tom Hood's 
 ballads. That clause related to the Supreme 
 Court Judges who have a life long tenure, or 
 as long as they behave themselves. But take 
 the clause relating to the President of the 
 United States, and what is that ? " The Pres- 
 "ident shall at stated times, receive for his 
 "services a compensation which shall neither 
 "be increased or diminished during the period 
 "for which he was elected" — or during the 
 term of his office, — which are synonimous. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. The gi-eat idea which 
 pervades this whole matter, whether relating 
 to the President of the United States or any 
 other officer, is that as long as he exercises 
 the duties of his office, his compensation shall 
 neither be increased or diminished. Now it 
 seems to me that the words " continuance in," 
 are more appropriate than "term of" and 
 conveys the idea that so long as he continues 
 in office and performs its functions, his com- 
 pensation shall not be increased or dimin- 
 ished. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. There is another case 
 we may suppose. The Governor resigns his 
 office at the end of the first year, and a new 
 incumbent takes his place. Is there any rea- 
 son why his salary should not be increased ? 
 And yet he would be still holding during a 
 part of the term of office of the preceding 
 Governor. 
 
 Let us look at the reas(Mi of this provision. 
 It is that the Governor himself, being a part 
 of the law making power, shall not increase 
 his own salary, by assisting the Legislature 
 to pass a law to that effect — for every law 
 must receive his sanction. Now the words 
 " continuance in office," provide for that con- 
 tingency. If he leaves the office before the 
 expiration of his term, the reason is lost, and 
 if he holds over longer than two years, the 
 reason holds good. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I would inquire whether 
 the Governor has tlie power to resign by his 
 own voluntary act ? The first section says 
 that the Executive power shall be vested in a 
 Governor, who shall hold his office for two 
 years. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICII. Section sLxth provides 
 for a resignation. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I judged from the 
 remarks of the gentlemen from Chisago 
 
MIXXESOTA COXVEXTION DEBATES— Tcesdat, July 28. 
 
 189 
 
 county, that it would hold the Glovemor abso- 
 lutely. If that is not the true meaning of 
 this provision, or if any provision is made for 
 resignation, he cannot be compelled to remain 
 in oflBce contrary to his will, and receive a 
 low salary. 
 
 The question was taken on the motion to 
 reconsider, and it was decided in the affirma- 
 tive. 
 
 Mr. WILS OX. Have we a quorum present ? 
 
 The PRESIDEXT. That can only be de- 
 termined by ordering a caU of the Conven- 
 tion. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES moved (at five o'clock and 
 forty-five minutes) that the Convention ad- 
 journ. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 The question then recurring upon adopting 
 the amendment to strike out " continuance 
 in," and insert " term of" 
 
 Mr. STAXXARD caUed for the yeas and 
 nays, which were ordered. 
 
 The question was then put, and the roll 
 being called, no quorum answered to their 
 names. 
 
 Thereupon on motion of Mr. LOWE, (at 
 five o'cloc k and fifty-five minutes) the Con- 
 vention adjourned. 
 
 FOURTEEXTH DAY. 
 
 Tuesday, July 28, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. m. 
 Prayer by the Chaplain, E. D. Xeill. 
 The journal of yesterday was read and 
 approved. 
 
 EXECrTIVE DEPABTMEXT. 
 
 The first business imder the order of pro- 
 ceedings, was the consideration of the amend- 
 ments to the report of the committee on the 
 Executive Department, reported from the 
 committee of the Whole. 
 
 The PRESIDEXT stated the first question 
 to be on the amendment proposed to the 
 eighth section, to strike out the words, " con- 
 " tinuance in," and insert " term of." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. As there are many mem- 
 bers present this morning who were not here 
 during the discussion yesterday on this 
 amendment, I will state the reasons why I 
 opposed the amendment. The section, as | 
 originally proposed by the committee, provides ! 
 that during the " continuance in" office of ( 
 
 the Lieutenant-Governor, his salary shall not 
 be increased or diminished. As I stated 
 yesterday, there is a reason for such a provision 
 as that being incorporated here. The Lieu- 
 tenant Governor, by the terms of another 
 section, is made a part of the legislative 
 power of the State. He is President of the 
 Senate, and has a casting vote. Consequently 
 any law passed during his continuance in 
 office, raising his salary would be liable, at 
 least to be passed by his own vote. It is 
 highly improper, to say the least, that an 
 officer of the Government should have the 
 privilege of fixing his own salary. The 
 recommendation of the committee of the 
 Whole was to strike out the words " continu- 
 "ancein," and insert ''term of." The only 
 difference which would be made by that 
 amendment, as I can see, would be this : the 
 words, " term of," would apply to the whole 
 term for which the Lieutenant-Governor was 
 originally elected, and that would be, accord- 
 ing to the first section, two years absolutely, 
 and contingently, an additional length of time. 
 Consequentiy the salary of that officer could 
 neither be increased or diminished during that 
 term, whether he occupied it all the time, or 
 some other person took his place. As the 
 matter now stands, in case of the removal, 
 resignation, or other disability of that officer, 
 during that term, it would allow the incum- 
 bent of the remaining portion of the term to 
 receive the benefits of the salary which might 
 have been increased during the first part of 
 the term. I see no reason why that should 
 not be the case, because the reason of the 
 rule being gone, the rule itself has lost its 
 efficacy. The Lieutenant-Governor who had 
 a part in passing that law ha\Tng gone out of 
 office, the new man coming in to fill the 
 balance of the term, would rightfully receive 
 that salary. Those are the reasons which 
 induced me to vote as I did yesterday, and 
 which I hope will induce the Convention to 
 vote against the amendment. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BILLIXGS. I move to strike out 
 from the seventh section the words : 
 
 " He shall be President of the Senate, but shall 
 have a casting rote therein." 
 
 — I made that motion yesterday, but I renew 
 it to-day because there are many present now 
 who were not here then. 
 
140 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, July 28, 
 
 Mr. BATES. I hope it wiU not prevaU. 
 If we are to have a Lieutenant-Governor, I 
 do not see why all power should be taken 
 from him. It is customary in almost every 
 State of the Union for the Lieutenant-Gover- 
 nor to be President of the Senate. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move that the report be 
 now read a third time and put upon its 
 passage. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair would state 
 that it cannot be done without a suspension 
 of the rules. Before that is done, it is usual 
 to have a bill or report properly engrossed. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I rise to a question of 
 order. One of our rules requires that the 
 third reading shall be upon a day subsequent 
 to the first and second reading. Hence it 
 cannot be read a third time to-day. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The point of order is 
 well taken, and it can only be read now under 
 a suspension of the rules. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move that it be ordered 
 to be engi-ossed for a third reading. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I would enquire if 
 there is an Engrossing committee ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. There is not. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. Then I move to amend 
 the motion so as to refer it to the committee 
 Vhich reported it, for engrossment. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I accept of that amend- 
 ment, if that is the proper method. Perhaps 
 it is the duty of the Secretary to perform that 
 service. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I would enquire if the 
 report should not be referred to the committee 
 on Arrangement and Phraseology, before it is 
 engrossed. 
 
 . The PRESIDENT. The report should be 
 engrossed, read a third time and passed, 
 before reference to that committee. 
 
 The report was then referred back to the 
 committee on the Executive Department for 
 engrossment. 
 
 PROPOSITION OF CONGRESS. 
 
 On motion of Mr. SECOMBE, the Convcn- 
 tion resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole on the report of the committee on 
 Public Property and Expenditures, (Mr. 
 Vaughn in the chair.) 
 
 The report was read as follows : 
 
 The Committee on Public Property and Expendi- 
 tures, to whom was referred a resolution in 
 relation to the propositions of Cona;ress con- 
 tained in the fifth section of the Enabling Act, 
 and the subject matter thereof, have given their 
 consideration to the same, and beg leave to 
 report the accompanying draft of an article on 
 the said subject ; and ask leave to report at a 
 future time on the other matters properly com- 
 ing before them. 
 
 The propositions contained in the fifth section of 
 the act of Congreas, entitled " An Act to authorize 
 the people of the Territory of Minnesota to form 
 a Constitution and State Government preparatory 
 to their admission into the Union on an equal 
 footing with the original States," and each of the 
 same are hereby freely accepted, ratified and con- 
 firmed ; and it is hereby ordained, irrevocably 
 without the consent of the United States, that the 
 State of [Minnesota shall never interfere with the 
 primary disposal of the soil within the same, by 
 the United States, or with any regulations Con- 
 gress may find necessary for securing the title in 
 said soil to lona fide purchasers thereof; and that 
 no tax shall be imposed on land belonging to the 
 United States, and that in no case shall non- 
 resident proprietors be taxed higher than residents. 
 
 No amendment being offered, — on motion 
 of Mr. SECOMBE, the committee rose, and 
 reported the article to the Convention with a 
 recommendation that it be adopted. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I do not hke the form of 
 the article, at first sight, I think that the pro- 
 position of Congress, accepted by this article, 
 should have been written out in full. It re- 
 fers to another document to ascertain what 
 those propositions are, and if we want to see 
 them we must refer to that other document 
 which is in no wise connected with this. In 
 Iowa, which came into the Union under an 
 Enabling Act similar to ours, they set out the 
 propositions in full, and then declared specifi- 
 cally that they adopted those propositions. I 
 think that would be the proper course in this 
 case. 
 
 Mr. MURPHY. I move that the article 
 be laid on the table. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 BOUNDARIES OP THE STATE. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move that the Con- 
 vention resolve itself into a committee of the 
 AVliole, to consider the report of the commit- 
 tee upon Boundaries. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I am not inclined to ask 
 favors, but I will state why I shall do so in 
 tliis instance. I have been unable to find a 
 map in this city giving our Territory, surveyed 
 and unsurveyed, in full. As a member of 
 
MIN^^SOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tlesday, Jult 28. 
 
 Ul 
 
 that committee, and the only one who dis- 
 sented to the boundaries laid down in that 
 report, I wish to make a minority report, and 
 I ask the Convention to grant me the favor of 
 passing the subject over to-day, to allow me 
 time to make that report, so that it can be ac- 
 ted upon with the majority report. It will 
 not delay our proceedings as we have plenty 
 other business to occuyy our attention. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I decline to withdraw 
 my motion. Ample time has elapsed since 
 that report was made to enable the gentle- 
 man to make a minority report. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I will state that I will 
 make that report to-morrow, whether I get a 
 map or not. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I hope the request will be 
 granted. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to, and the re- 
 port was laid over. 
 
 BASKIXG COBPOBATIOXS, AC. 
 
 On motion of Mr. MORGAN, the Conven- 
 tion resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole upon the report of the committee 
 upon Banking and Corporations other than 
 Municipal, — Mr. Hollet in the Chair. (For 
 report, see proceedings July twenty-fourth.) 
 
 The report was read by sections, and the 
 following proceedings took place : 
 
 Sec. 2. If a general banking law shall be en- 
 acted, it shall provide for the registry and coan- 
 tersigning, by an oflScer of State, of all bills or 
 paper credit, designed to circulate as money, and 
 require security to the full amount thereof, to be 
 deposited with the State Treasurer, in United 
 States Stocks, or in interest paying stocks of 
 States in good credit and standing, to be rated at 
 ten per cent, below their average value in the City 
 of New York, for the thirty days next preceding 
 their deposit ; and in case of a depreciation of any 
 portion of such stocks, to the amount of ten per 
 cent, on the dollar, the bank or banks owning said 
 stocks, shall be required to maktf up such defi- 
 cienncy by depositing additional stocks ; and said 
 law shall also provide for the recording of the 
 names of all stockholders in such corporations, 
 the amount of stock held by each, the time of 
 transfer, and to whom. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN offered the following 
 amendment : 
 
 " Strike out all after the word ' enacted' and in- 
 sert the following: 'The Legislature shall pro- 
 vide by law for the registry of all bills or notes is- 
 sued or put in circulation as money, and shall re- 
 quire ample security for the redemption of the 
 suae in specie.' " 
 
 Mr. BATES. I hope the amendment wfll 
 not be adopted. I am aware that our Terri- 
 tory wish for banks, but they wish for those * 
 in which they can have confidence, and with 
 such security that they can feel perfectly safe. 
 We know very well tlie result, to our West- 
 €!m States generally, of having banks with- 
 out having ample security. Adopt the amend- 
 ment proposed and I do not believe our 
 people will feel safe. I believe the result 
 would be very injurious to our banking sys- 
 tem as a whole, and hence I am opposed to it. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I hope the amendment will 
 be adopted, or something similar to it. It 
 seems to me that the provision proposed by 
 the committee is obnoxious to the same ob- 
 jection which has been made to many other 
 provisions reported by other committees — 
 that it infringes upon the legislative depart- 
 ment of the government. I think if there is 
 any error which this Convention can commit, 
 and which will be just ground for impeaching 
 its action, it is that of infringing upon the 
 duties of the other department of the gov- 
 ernment. There seems to be a tendency in 
 this Convention to do so, and perhaps they 
 will do it at all hazards. So far as I am con- 
 cerned I dissent from any such proceedings. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the amendment 
 wiU not prevail. This section was incorpo- 
 rated into the report by the unanimous con- 
 sent of the committee, though not originally 
 in accordance with the unanimous feelings of 
 the committee. I think if there is any one 
 point which we should guard more than all 
 others, in framing a Constitution to be sub- 
 mitted to the people for acceptance or rejec- 
 tion, it is this one. It is well known that in 
 the new States great diflBculty has been ex- 
 perienced in regard to the institution of banks, 
 and that great objection has been made to 
 any banking system. But that has resulted 
 not from any objection which people had to 
 banks, but to the tmfortunate system of 
 banking which has prevailed throughout the 
 western world. That opposition has been 
 carried so far that in Wisconsin it was provided 
 in their Constitution that no banking system 
 should ever be adopted by the Legislature, 
 tmta they had first submitted to the people 
 the direct proposition of " banks or no banks," 
 and further, after they had determined that 
 it wa.s their wish either to have a general 
 
142 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, July 28. 
 
 banking law, or special bank charters, that no 
 such sj^stem or special charter should take 
 effect until it had been first submitted to a 
 direct vote of the people. 
 
 In Iowa there has been a constitutional pro- 
 vision against banks ; but their Constitution, 
 recently framed, authorizes their Legislature 
 to incorporate banks. It is from that Con- 
 stitution that the article under consideration 
 has been taken in all its material features. 
 The great necessity of a revision of the Con- 
 stitution of Iowa resulted from this very sub- 
 ject, and the main feature, in the revised Con- 
 stitution, which is to be submitted to the 
 people next month, 'for adoption, is this bank- 
 ing question. 
 
 Now, Mr. President, while I am satisfied 
 that a large majority of the people of the pro- 
 posed States are in favor of some system of 
 banking, I am equally well satisfied that they 
 will look with the closest scrutiny upon that 
 system, and that they will demand that the 
 Legislature, if they are authorized to enact 
 either a general banking law, or special char- 
 ters, shall be bound by the strictest provis- 
 ions. They will demand that the grant of 
 that power to the Legislature, shall itself se- 
 cure a safe system. The proposition of the 
 gentleman from Fillmore County (Mr. Cleg- 
 horn) is a very good proposition. It pro- 
 vides that there shall be ample security. 
 Now no one wants anything more than ample 
 security, but the people of the proposed State 
 want to know, before they vote for banks 
 what that security is to be. I believe they 
 will be afraid to trust that important matter 
 to the Legislature, and that if we adopt a sys- 
 tem liable to the objection that that proposi- 
 tion is open to, it will meet with the disap- 
 probation of the people of the proposed 
 State. 
 
 I know that there is a class of citizens who 
 will be very hostile to the system which we 
 have proposed. Who compose that class? 
 Are they the farmers, the mechanics, the 
 tradesmen ? Are they a larger proport'on of 
 the people who are to live under this provis- 
 ion ? Assuredly not. They arc those who 
 embark in the business of banking, for the 
 purpose of making more money in that way 
 than they can in any other. Now that is 
 very laudable, and I have no objection that 
 the man of means should make just as much 
 
 money out of his capital as he can, provided 
 he does not do it at my expense and risk, I 
 am aware that this provision will not leave 
 them a chance to make money enough, and 
 consequently they will turn their money into 
 some other channel. Very well, let them turn 
 their capital in some other direction where 
 they can make more money, but less poor men. 
 
 I propose briefly to consider the provisions 
 of this second section. In the first place it 
 provides that if " a general banking law shall 
 "be enacted, it shall provide for the registry 
 " and countersigning, by an officer of State, of 
 " all bills or paper credit, designed to circu- 
 "late as money." Now the proposition of 
 the gentleman from Fillmore county makes 
 no such proposition as that. The term " ample 
 security," which he uses, implies that the 
 Legislature may use their discretion in that 
 matter. Now I believe that no very respec- 
 table number of the members of this Conven- 
 tion will be willing to waive the requirements 
 of a registiy and countersigning of all bills 
 that are to be issued. 
 
 It requires in the next place, that the Le- 
 gislature shall "require security to the full 
 " amount thereof to be deposited with the State 
 " Treasurer." I trust that no man here, and 
 that no honest and respectable banker, will 
 object to that. The banker has the benefit of 
 sending out his own promissory notes upon 
 the community, and of receiving his rates of 
 interest for the loan of them, and certainly 
 he cannot object to providing security for 
 those notes. 
 
 But it is provided further, that this secu- 
 rity shall be in " United States Stocks, or in 
 " interest paying stocks of States in good 
 " credit and standing, to be rated at ten per 
 " cent, below their average value in the City 
 " of New York, for the thirty days next pre- 
 " ceeding their deposit." Now if there is any 
 necessity of having any security, there is an 
 equal necessity for having good security. 
 This is not a mere matter of form. This secu- 
 rity is to lie in readiness to apply to the pay- 
 ment of those notes in case of a failure on tlie 
 part of the maker to meet them, so that if 
 you, Mr. Chairman, should hold the note of a 
 broken bank for five dollars, you would be 
 able to get your five dollars in full. 
 
 But it is said, that in order to bank under 
 this provision, for every ten thousand dollar* 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tlesdat, Jult 28. 
 
 143 
 
 capital, the banker has to lie out of one thou- 
 sand dollars. In other words, that if he buys 
 ten tliousand dollars worth of par stock, he 
 can only send out nine thousand doUars worth 
 of notes. Now there is a very good reason 
 for that. Suppose he sends out nine thou- 
 sand dollars worth of notes and by-and-bye 
 fails ; there is the ten per cent, to pay the 
 expenses of winding up the concern, so that 
 the individuals who hold those notes may 
 receive their nine thousand ddlars in full. If 
 the bank had deposited only nine thousand 
 dollars worth of stocks, there certainly would 
 be a loss. 
 
 The next provision is that " in case of a de- 
 " preciation of any portion of such stocks, 
 " to the amoimt of ten per cent, on the dol- 
 " lar, the bank or banks owning said stocks, 
 " shall be required to make up such deficiency 
 "by depositing additional stocks." A very 
 necessary provision, if it is intended that it 
 should amount to anything, and for the same 
 reason that is necessary that the stocks 
 should be rated at a less amount than their 
 par value in the first instance. 
 
 The last provision is that "said law shall 
 " also provide for the recording of the names i 
 " of all stockholders in such corporations, the i 
 " amount of stock held by each, the time of : 
 " transfer, and to whom." A very necessary ' 
 provision taken in connection with a subse- ■< 
 quent one, contained in section four, which 
 provides for the individual liability of stock- 
 holders in addition to the security already i 
 provided. \ 
 
 Now, Mr. Chairman, as a member of the j 
 the committee to whom this matter was I 
 referred, and as a member of this Convention, | 
 I am imwilling to send out to the people of i 
 Minnesota a Constitution imless it contains ' 
 some provision equivalent to this. I believe j 
 it would be reuinons to the Constitution, and i 
 that it would be unwise and imsafe. I there- ! 
 fore hope the amendment will not prevail. j 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move to amend by 
 striking out all between the word " require," 
 in the third line, and the word " and," in the 
 eleventh line, and insert in place thereof as fol- 
 lows : 
 
 "Ample collateral security, easily convertible 
 into specie, to be deposited with the State Treas- 
 urer, for the redemption of all such paper credit, 
 
 and shall provide foi' the election of three ban* 
 
 commissioners, a part of whose duty it shall be to 
 
 examine, and decide upon the sufficiency of all 
 
 security offered for deposit ; and they shall rate 
 
 such securities at least fifty p«r cent, below 
 
 I their real value, and in case of a depreciation of 
 
 I any portion of such securities to the amount of 
 
 \ twenty per cent, on the doUar, they shall require 
 
 j the bank or banks owing such securities to deposit 
 
 additional securities." 
 
 As a member of tiie committee which made 
 this report, it may be expected that I should 
 assign some reason for now ofieringan amend- 
 ment to that report. Although the gentle- 
 man who has just taken his seat remarked 
 that the report was made, by the unanimous 
 consent of the committee, it did not coincide 
 with the views of all the members. I did 
 not wish to make a minority report, but 
 choose to ofier an amendment at the proper 
 time. 
 
 I am in favor of giving all necessary secu- 
 rity to bill holders, and of protecting the 
 conmivmity under any banking system. As 
 remarked by the gentleman from St. Anthony, 
 (Mr. Secombe), I believe the people of the 
 proposed State will actually require a banking 
 system for the issue of paper currency, upon 
 some basis or other. The quostion arises 
 then, how can such a system be established, 
 giving suflBcient security to the commimity, 
 and at the same time holding out suflBcient 
 inducement to capitalists to engage in it. 
 Under the provisions of this section, it seems 
 to me there will be very little inducement for 
 years to come, for men of capital to engage in 
 banking business. It requires that they shall 
 deposite with the State Treasurer security to 
 the amoimt of their issues in United States 
 stocks, or of paying stocks of States in good 
 credit, to be rated at ten per cent, below their 
 average value for thirty days next preceeding 
 their deposite. And then in addition to that, 
 they of course must have specie in their 
 vaults to redeem their paper as presented. 
 Take the basis supposed by the gentleman 
 for an illustration. With a capital of ten 
 thousand dollars, only nine thousand dollars 
 of paper could be issued, and then, besides 
 that, the banker would be obliged to keep two 
 or three thousand dollars of specie to redeem 
 paper as presented. Here then would be a 
 capital of thirteen thousand dollars invested 
 for the purpose of issuing nine thousand 
 
144 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, July 28. 
 
 dollars in bills. Now I do not believe our 
 capitalists in Minnesota will be induced to 
 sell their real estate at the present time, or 
 for some time to come, and invest their 
 money in United States or State stocks to 
 deposit with the Secretary of State as security 
 for banking business. It seems to u;e that 
 the proposition I have offered wUl give ample 
 security, and all that can reasonably be asked 
 for by the community for the paper which 
 shall be issued. It provides that such collat- 
 eral security shall be rated at least fifty per 
 cent, below its real value by three Bank 
 Commissioners to bo chosen, whose duty it 
 shall be to look at the banking interest of the 
 State. If, in the course of their duties, they 
 find those securities have depreciated in value 
 twenty per cent., they shall require the bank 
 owning such securities to deposit addditional 
 security, so that the community shall be con- 
 tinuously safe. 
 
 I am aware that it wUl be objected to this 
 kind of security, that those Bank Commis- 
 sioners are men who in times of pohtical 
 excitement, and perhaps at other times, may 
 be bought, or induced in some way or another 
 to act in the discharge of their duties, for the 
 interest of the capitalists, and to the injury of 
 the community. In other words, that they 
 may be corrupted, and will not do their duty 
 as prescribed by the Constitution and the 
 laws. Now I am in favor of throwing 
 around all our State oflScers all necessary 
 guards and restrictions, but I think there is 
 manifested in this Convention too much 
 suspicion, and the idea seems to pervade the 
 minds of some that we are the only pure and 
 immaculate body which will ever assemble in 
 this capitol, and that tliose who come after us 
 will be corrupt, and that the officers of the 
 people are not to be trusted in the remotest 
 degree, if we can restrict them. I am in 
 favor of leaving something to the people, and 
 something to the officers of the people. The 
 only way in which we can establish a banking 
 system at all, is to leave something to the 
 people hereafter. I desire to have the system 
 80 arragned that the capitalists of our own 
 State will engage in it. If the original section 
 is adopted, and we have banks at all, the 
 capital will be owned by persons not residing 
 in our State, but by those living in other 
 States who are not bore, and cannot be here 
 
 to engage in the speculations which are more 
 lucrative than banking. Capitalists from New 
 York, Philadelphia, and Boston may possibly 
 be induced to engage in banking under such 
 a law, and to the exclusion of capitalists liv- 
 ing in our State. 
 
 I do not desire to discuss the report now 
 at length, but I want to hear the views of 
 other gentlemen upon it ; and hereafter I shall 
 move to re-commit this report to the commit- 
 tee in which it originated. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I confess that this matter 
 has taken me somewhat by surprise. In 
 taking a first glance at this report, I must say 
 that I think we are entering upon a very dan- 
 gerous and doubtful experiment. If this arti- 
 cle is adopted, we prescribe the details of a 
 banking law, upon which there are as many 
 opinions perhaps as there are capitalists. To 
 say at this time, what our banking system 
 shall be three or four years hence, I regard as 
 exceedingly premature. The attempt to 
 establish a permanent banking system now, 
 must result, as every such attempt has re- 
 sulted in new communities, in disaster and 
 loss, and the general breaking up of confi- 
 dence in the community. "VVe should be 
 exceedingly cautious in our action upon this 
 matter at the present time. 
 
 Another thing, it is exceedingly doubtful 
 whether it is good policy, to legislate, in a Con- 
 stitution which we are to submit for the adop- 
 tion of the people, upon subjects on which 
 there are such diverse opinions. "VVe had 
 better adopt a general article, authorizing tho 
 establishment of a banking system by the 
 Legislature, after the submission of the ques- 
 tion to the people whether they will or will not 
 have such a system. That appears to me to 
 be the safer course. It was adopted in Wis- 
 consin when they framed their Constitution. 
 They waited there until the people were 
 ready to have banks, and when the people 
 had so expressed their wish, a system was 
 adopted which is probably the best one in 
 existence. And when that system was es- 
 tablished by the Legislature, it was again 
 submitted to the people, and they ratified it. 
 I think we had better pursue the same course, 
 under the peculiar circumstances in which 
 we are placed. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. T move that tho report be 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, Jult 28. 
 
 145 
 
 recommitted to the Committee which reported 
 it, with instructions that they report for tlie 
 consideration of the Convention a provision 
 similar to that contained in the Constitution of 
 Wisconsin. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I second tliat motion, but 
 before it is put I will read the clause in the 
 "Wisconsin Constitution : 
 
 " The Legislature shall not have power to cre- 
 ate, authorize, or incorporate, by any general or 
 special law, any bank, or banking power or privi- 
 lege, or any institution or corporation having any 
 banking power or privilege whatever, except as 
 provided in this article. 
 
 "The Legislature may submit to the votes at any 
 general election, the question of "bank or no 
 bank," and if at any such election a number of 
 votes equal to a majority of all the votes cast at 
 such election oa that subject shall be in favor of 
 banks, then the Legislature shall have power to 
 grant bank charters. Or to pass a general banking 
 law, with such restrictions and under such regula- 
 tions as they may deem expedient and proper for 
 the security of the bill-holder. Proiidid, that no 
 Such grant or law shall have any force or eflfect 
 until the same shall have been submitted to a vqte 
 of the electors of the State at some general Elec- 
 tion, and been approved by a majority of the votes 
 cast on that subject at such election." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I am opposed to this mo- 
 tion for two reasons, the first is, that we have 
 not yet discovered that there is objection, to 
 any considerable extent, to the present report 
 of the committee. Two propositions have 
 been made to amend section second, and they 
 have received but a slight support. Again — 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I rise to a question of 
 order. Is it in order in committee of the 
 Whole, to move to commit to a committee ? 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. It is not. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. Then I move that the com- 
 mittee rise and report the report to the Con- 
 vention \vith a recommendation that it be 
 recommitted to the committee from which it 
 came, with the instructions I before men- 
 tioned; 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I supposed that such was 
 the purport of the gentleman's motion. It 
 does not seem to me that it would be justice 
 to the cammittee which has had tlie subject 
 under consideration, and have made their 
 report, to summarily refer it back to them 
 when we have had no great amount of objec- 
 tion made to it. 
 
 I also am opposed to the motion because it 
 gives directions to that committee what par- 
 19 
 
 ticular report to make. I object to it again 
 because I am opposed to the system which it 
 is proposed the banking committee shall 
 report. 
 
 As I said when I was up before, I am sat- 
 isfied that the people of the proposed State 
 want banks, and that, too, immediately, and 
 I would not be willing to subject them to the 
 necessity of waiting until the matter could 
 be submitted twice to themselves. The Wis- 
 consin Constitution, provides that the Legis- 
 lature shall have no power to pass any bank 
 charter, or pass any general banking law, 
 until they had ordered — 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I rise to a point of 
 order. A motion that the committee rise, 
 according to our rules, must be decided with- 
 out debate. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I rise to « point of order. 
 Was there not a motion pending before the 
 conunittee when the motion to rise was made ; 
 and is it not therefore out of order now ? 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. I prefer to leave the 
 committee to decide the question whether the 
 gentleman who is speaking is in order. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would like to speak to 
 that point of order before it is decided. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I withdraw my motion. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I make the molaon 
 that the co.^/imittee rise and report the report 
 to tlie Convention with a recommendation 
 that it be recommitted to the Standing Com- 
 mittee. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Is the motion debatable ? 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The Chak thinks not. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. It is not a simple motion 
 to rise, but is coupled with other matter. 
 
 The C H AIRMAN. The Chau- understands 
 that, according to the rule, it must be decided 
 without debate. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I rise to a question of 
 order. Is not a motion that the committee 
 rise, tlie same to the committee of the Whole, 
 that a motion to adjourn is to the Convention ? 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The Chau- thinks it is. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Well a motion to adjovim, 
 with anything else attached to it loses its 
 privilege, and becomes debatable like every 
 other motion. A motion therefore that the 
 committee rise, with another matter attached 
 to it, loses its privilege, and is debatable. I 
 I think the analogy is so clear that there can 
 be no doubt about it. 
 
146 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, Jci.y 28. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair has decided 
 that question. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I app^cal from the decision 
 of the Chair. The point taken by the gen- 
 tleman from Winona is the view I have of the 
 matter. A simple motion to rise is not de- 
 batable, but a motion tangled with other mat- 
 ter, like this, is debatable. 
 
 Mr. LOAVE. I move to amend the motion, 
 so as to make it a simple motion to rise. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I accept the amend- 
 ment. 
 
 Mr. "WILSON. When mattel^s stand in 
 their present position, can such an amendment 
 be oflfered ? 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. Under the decision of 
 the Chair the opinion of the Convention should 
 be had upon the motion of Mr. Lowe, that 
 the committee rise and report with instruc- 
 tions, &c. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The point I appealed 
 from is this : Mr. Loave withdrew his motion 
 and Mr. Stannakd renewed it, and the Chair 
 decides that the motion is not debatable. 
 From that decision I appealed to the com- 
 4Mttee. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. Is the Chair to under- 
 stand that Mr. Lowe withdrew his motion ? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. He did, and Mr. Stan- 
 NARD renewed it. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I suggest that the motion 
 now is simply that the committee rise. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I suggest that it is not, 
 for the reason that before that amendment 
 was offered, an appeal was taken from the 
 decision of the Chair that the motion of Mr. 
 Stannard was not debatable; and conse- 
 quently, it seems to me, that it would be out 
 of order. The question is now whether the 
 Chair shall be sustained. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. It is evident that the 
 •committee is not ready to take a calm con- 
 sideration of the subject before it, and there- 
 fore I move that the committee now rise. 
 That motion takes precedence of all others 
 and is not debatable. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I rise to a point of or> 
 der. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. The gentleman is out 
 of order in rising to debate the motion that 
 •the committee rise. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. That motion has not been 
 seconded. 
 
 A MEMBER. I second the motion. 
 The CHAIRMAN. The question is shall 
 the decision of the Chair stand as the judg- 
 ment of the Convention, as an appeal is taken 
 from the decision of the Chair that the motion 
 of Mr. Standard was in order. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. With the indulgence of 
 the Chair, I would state that my appeal was 
 taken from the decision that the motion of 
 Mr. Stannard was not debatable. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair intended to 
 decide that the motion of Mr. Stannard was 
 in order, and he supposed the appeal was from 
 that. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. That was not the ground 
 of my appeal at all, and if the Chair has not 
 made such a decision, I will resume my re- 
 marks. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Mr. Stannard modified 
 his motion, to a simple motion that the com- 
 mittee rise. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. Mr. Lowe moved that 
 as an amendment and I accepted it. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. It appears to the Chair 
 that an appeal having been taken, it should 
 be decided. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I beg'to say that no such 
 appeal as the Chair supposes was made. An 
 appeal was taken from a supposed decision 
 of the Chair that the motion was not debata- 
 ble, but the Chair sj^ys he made no such de- 
 cision. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I understand tliat Mr. 
 Secombe withdraws his appeal. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I sat down simply be- 
 cause the Chair said he had made no such de- 
 cision as that from which I appealed. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will put the 
 question on the motion that the conunittee 
 rise. 
 
 The question was then taken and the mo- 
 tion was agreed to. 
 
 The committee accordingly rose and re- 
 ported progress on the bill. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I now move that the re- 
 port be re-committed to the committee from 
 whence it came. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICII. Does the gentleman in- 
 tend to include in his motion instructions to 
 the committee ? 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. Tliat was not my inten- 
 tcntion, I will briefly give my reasons for 
 the motion. At the time this committee re- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, Jcly 28. 
 
 14^ 
 
 ported, there seemed to be but little business 
 before the Convention, and it was thought de- 
 sirable to make the report as soon as possible 
 in order that the Convention might have 
 something to do. The report was hurried 
 along faster than it should have been, "and was 
 not duly considered by the committee. If 
 the committee had taken more time, they 
 would have reported diiFerently from what 
 they did. That is the reason why I desire to 
 have it re-committed without instructions. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I am opposed to this 
 motion for the reason that it has not yet become 
 apparent to the Convention, that the report 
 is not iq accordance with their wishes. We 
 have but slightly considered it in committee 
 of the Whole, and so far as consideration was 
 ^ven to it, there seems to be a very general 
 satisfaction with its provisions. 
 
 The remark by the gentleman that suflB- 
 cient time was not given to this proposition 
 while it was before the Committee I cannot 
 coincide in. The matter was, so far as I 
 know, fully and thoroughly discussed, and 
 there seemed a general acquiescence upon the 
 part of the committee, that we should have 
 something in the natm'e of this second pro- 
 vision. I do not see any reason yet why we 
 should re-submit this matter to the committee 
 when they have already performed their duty, 
 and submitted a report which we have not 
 vet had time to consider in committee of the 
 Whole. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. As a member of that com- 
 mittee I would certainly approve of the 
 motion to re-submit. Not that I have received 
 any new light, but that I am satisfied that 
 the chairman is not gratified with his own 
 rejwrt. We have an abundance of time, and 
 the action of the committee will not be 
 delayed. I am willing to let that committee 
 concoct any plan they or their chairman may 
 have in view. I certainly will not shrink 
 from going into an investigation of the matter 
 again. I myself think we hurried the matter 
 through more than we should have done. It 
 was so hurried because we were anxious to 
 get some business for the Convention to act 
 upon. 
 
 The question was taken on the motion to 
 re-commit, and it was carried. 
 
 Mr. AVILSON. I now move that Mr. 
 Cleohor:^ be added to that standing com- 
 
 mittee. He offered an amendment to the 
 report which is worthy of consideration, and 
 I think he ought to be added to the committee. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I hope that will not be 
 agreed to. I myself proposed to ofiFer an 
 amendment, and should I be added to the 
 committee on that account ? If we do this, 
 there is no telling where we shall end. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I suggest to the Conven- 
 tion that any suggestions which may be made 
 to the committee will be considered. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 PCXISHMEXT OF CRIMES. 
 
 On motion of Mr. COLBURN, the Conven- 
 tion resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole, (Mr. Watson in the chair,) upon the 
 report of the committee upon the Punishment 
 of Crimes. (For report, see proceedings ofi 
 July 24th.) 
 
 The report was read by sections for 
 amendment. 
 
 Sec. 1. No person shall be held to answer for a 
 capital or infamous crime, unless on a presentment 
 or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases of 
 impeachment, or in cases cognizable by a justice 
 of the peace, or in cases arising in the army or 
 navy, or in the militia when in actual service, in 
 time of war or public danger. The Legislature- 
 shall provide by law a suitable and impartial mode 
 of selecting juries, and their usual number and 
 unanimity, in indictments and convictions shall be 
 held indispensable. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move that that section 
 be stricken out, and my reason for such a 
 motion is, that the ground is fully covered by 
 the report of the committee upon the Preamble 
 and Bill of Rights. I was a member of the 
 committee which made this report, and con- 
 sented to its being made in this form, for 
 the purpose of having it come before the 
 Convention, but I never approved of making 
 a separate article in the Constitution upon tliis 
 subject. I have seen but one Constitution 
 where the provisions of this section have 
 been provided for in a separate form. Article 
 first of this section is provided for in article 
 eighth of the Bill of Rights. If these sections 
 are adopted in the form in which they are 
 here reported, it will be necessary to strike 
 them out from the Bill of Rights, where they 
 were all passed upon in Convention. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I hope the motion will not 
 prevail. You remember that the question 
 was raised when the Bill of Rights was under 
 
148 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, July 28. 
 
 discussion, that it included matters properly 
 belonging to other committees, and that report 
 was objected to upon that ground. But that 
 is no good reason why this report should not 
 be adopted, and those redundant articles 
 in the Bill of Rights be stricken out 
 there. 
 
 I believe it is the sense of this Convention 
 that we should have something in onr Constitu- 
 tion which should be the basis upon which our 
 criminal code shall be founded, and there is 
 no better way, in my judgment, than to 
 incorporate an article, going into <;hp details 
 somewhat, prescribing what the Legislature 
 may do, and may not do, in the premises. 
 And I will say to the Convention, that when 
 the proper time arrives, I have a substitute 
 to offer to the whole Bill of Rights, simplify- 
 ing it, and making it what it should be, — a 
 simple declaration of right;s and nothing more 
 — declaring fundamental principles and leav- 
 ing it for the body of the Constitution, under 
 proper and legitimate^ heads, tQ carry out 
 t):}0se simple declarations. 
 
 Mr. KING. One difficulty arises in regard 
 to the motion before the Convention, and that 
 is, if you strike out the whole section you 
 strike out a provision securing to us one of our 
 most important rights, which is that the Leg- 
 islature shall provide by law " a suitable an^ 
 "impartial mode of selecting juries, and their 
 "usual number and unanimity." It is only 
 the first part of this section which is contained 
 in the eighth section of the Bill of Rights. 
 But the Bill of Rights is not a Constitution, 
 but simply a declaration of what shall be 
 contained in the Constitution, and what it 
 shall be based upon, 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. The matter which has 
 just been spoken of, is provided for in the 
 seventh section of the Bill of Rights, which 
 provides that the criminal shall have compul- 
 sory process to compel the attendance of 
 witnesses in his behalf, and in prosecutions 
 by indictment or information, to a speedy and 
 public trial by an impartial jury of the county 
 or district wherein the offence shall have been 
 committed. It is impossible for us, in fram- 
 ing a constitution, to go into details, and state 
 and re-state that the Legislature shall enact 
 provisions for obtaining imi)artial juries. A 
 Constitution is some general directions as to 
 the formation of the State Government, and 
 
 the enunciation of some general principles 
 upon which legislation shall be founded. If 
 we go into details, and introduce every propo- 
 sition which may be good in itself, and proper 
 at some time to be introduced as matters of 
 legislation, we shall make a Constitution as 
 large as a book of statutes. I am utterly 
 opposed to all these details. They seem to 
 me unnecessary and uncalled for. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I am opposed to striking 
 out the section, substantially for the same rea-. 
 son that I was in favor of striking out a sim- 
 ilar provision from the Bill of Rights. I 
 deem this the appropriate place for it, and as 
 the Bill of Rights has not been finally acted 
 upon, I shall vote to retain this section here, 
 and when the BUI of Rights comes up, I shall 
 move to strike out the provision then. 
 
 Whether other States have arranged their 
 Constitutions in this form or not, I think it 
 preferable to retain it here. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. It strikes me that this 
 article provides for sometliing more than the 
 article in the Bill of Rights. It contains cer- 
 tain qualifications which are not contained in 
 that. The Bill of Rights says : " Except in 
 " cases of impeachment, or in cases cogniza- 
 "ble by a justice of the peace, or in cases 
 "afrising in the army or navy, or in the mi- 
 "litia, when in actual service in time of war 
 " or public danger." But this section says 
 further, that " the Legislature shall provide 
 " by law a suitable and impartial mode of 
 " selecting juries." That would seem to be 
 necessary. Then it goes on to say — "and 
 " their usual number and unanimity, in indict- 
 "ments and convictions, shall be deemed 
 " indispensable." I must confess I do not 
 understand exactly what that means. But 
 notwithstanding it speaks of the usual number 
 of jurors, section eleventh of the same report, 
 says that the Legislature may authorize trial 
 by jury of a less number than twelve. men in 
 the inferior courts of tlio Strte. I have no 
 objection to the article though I think its 
 meaning might be more clearly expressed. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I am in favor of stri- 
 king out tills section for the reason, first, 
 because I consider it a species of legislation 
 unnecessary to bo inserted into the Constitu- 
 tion ; and secondly, because the wording of 
 this section is not as good as that of the eleventh 
 section of llic Bill of Rights. That Is more 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tcesday, Jclt 28.' 
 
 140 
 
 compact and partakes much less of the nature 
 of legislation. 
 
 Again, the proper place for a clause of this 
 Import, is in the Bill of Rights. All States 
 which have adopted a Constitution -with a 
 Bill of Rights, have inserted such a clause in 
 the Bill of Rights. By common consent it 
 seems to have been conceded that that is the 
 proper place for this subject matter. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I was a member of the com- 
 mittee which made this report, and I would 
 be glad to have it receive the compliment of a 
 consideration by the Convention. Neverthe- 
 less it seems to me that nearly the whole of 
 the subject matter of this report has been 
 acted upon carefully by the committee of the 
 Whole when they had under consideration 
 the report of the committee on the Bill of 
 Rights. If we go through this bill we shall 
 have to travel over the whole ground again, 
 and it will only tend to bring us into a state 
 of confusion upon the subject. It strikes 
 me that it would be better to refer the matter 
 back to the committee with instn^ctions to 
 report only so much as has not been acted upon 
 before. I move that the committee now rise, 
 and if that is agreed to, I will move in Con- 
 vention, that it be recommitted to the com- 
 mittee from which it came. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The committee accordingly rose and re- 
 ported the report to the Convention. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I now move that the report 
 be recommitted to the con^mittee in which it 
 originated. 
 
 *he motion was agreed to, and the report 
 was recommitted. 
 
 EXEJtPnOX OF BEAL AM) PERSONAL ESTATE. 
 
 On motion of Mr. CLEGHORN,"the Con- 
 vention resolved itself into committee of the 
 Whole (Mr. Fosteb in the Chair) upon the 
 report of the committee upon Exemption of 
 Peal and Personal Estate, and the rights of 
 Married Women. [For report, see proceed- 
 ings of July 2-ith.] 
 
 The report was read by sections for amend- 
 ment. 
 
 Sectiov 1. The personal property of everj 
 resident of this State, to consist of such property 
 as shall be designated by law, shall be exempted 
 10 the amount of not less than two hundred and 
 ftftj (1250) dollars from sale on execution or other 
 final process of any court issued for the collection 
 
 of any d«bt contracted after the adoption of this 
 Constitution. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move that the first sec- 
 tion be stricken out, and [if that motion is 
 carried, I shaU move that every succeeding 
 section be stricken out, and for the reason 
 that this is wholly a matter of legislation. 
 All there is in this section, for which any 
 provision is needed, is provided for in section 
 seventeenth of the Bill of Rights which says 
 that " the right of the debtor to enjoy the 
 "necessary comforts of life shall be recog- 
 "nized by wholesome exemption laws." That 
 is a general provision covering the whole 
 ground. The remaining part of this report 
 is mere legislation. I can see no reason why 
 we should go into specific legislation upon 
 this subject. The third and fourth sections 
 are also matters of legislation, and there 
 already exists in this Territory legislation 
 upon the subject of the rights of married 
 women. It does seem to me that we ought 
 not to enter upon matters of legislation of 
 this kind, in this place. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I shall be under the neces- 
 sity of voting against this motion, and against 
 the striking out of any other section of this 
 report As an indiWdual I am decidedly in 
 favor of incorporating into the Constitution 
 a specific exemption, and make it the fimda- 
 mental law of the land that a certain amount 
 of real and personal property shall be exempt 
 from such execution. Such being my senti- 
 ments, and the sentiments, I beheve, of that 
 portion of the community that is benefitted 
 by exemption laws, I shall vote for retaining 
 this section and all the sections of this report. 
 If there is any amendment which can give it 
 more force and more sacredness, I shall vote 
 for such amendment. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I am in favor of strik- 
 ing out every section of this report, not be- 
 cause I am not in favor of an homestead ex- 
 emption law, for I am most sincerely in favor 
 of it, and were I a member of the first Legis- 
 lature under the State government, I should 
 insist upon such a law, and perhaps for a 
 more hberal one than any member in this 
 Convention, But I do not consider it proper 
 for us, more particularly under present cir- 
 cumstances, to place a full and perfect ex- 
 emption law in the Constitution. If it is left to 
 the first Legislature, I believe the people 
 
150 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, July 28. 
 
 will see to it that senators and representatives 
 are elected who will frame a law of that char- 
 acter. We should not encumber the Consti- 
 tution with full and perfect laws upon any of 
 these subjects. I am equall}^ opposed to the 
 insertion of a banking law in the Constitution. 
 Let the people elect a Legislature with spe- 
 cial reference to those matters. 
 
 Mr. SMITH. I regard this section merely 
 as a basis of future legislation. I think the 
 people demand that something specific shall 
 be inserted here. I hope the motion to strike 
 out will not prevail. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. There is in the BUI of 
 Rights a clause which covers this whole 
 ground. It provides that the right of the 
 debtor to enjoy the necessary comforts of life 
 shall be recognized by wholesome exemption 
 laws. That gives to the Legislature full power 
 and authority to pass such laws, as in their 
 judgment they "think proper and which they 
 think the people demand ; and there is where 
 I think this matter should be left. But I was 
 very glad to hear the committee report upon 
 this subject and bring it before the Conven- 
 tion, that it might be freely discussed. I hope 
 gentleman will not vote for the retention of 
 this clause simply because [they are m favor 
 of such a law. I, too, am in favor of- it, 
 and I suppose there is not a member of the 
 Convention more so, but I shall vote to strike 
 it out upon the ground of the inexpediency of 
 inserting a full and complete exemption law 
 io the Constitution. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I agree with the gentle- 
 man from Winona. While I am in favor of 
 an exemption law, and while I believe the 
 members of this Convention, and neai'ly every 
 citizen of the Territory, are in favor of it, at 
 the same time I believe it is not proper to in- 
 corporate a law in detail, like this, into our 
 Constitution. It is agreed upon all hands 
 that the people of the Territory demand such 
 a law, and if so, the Legislature will be sure 
 to pass one. What the people demand, the 
 Legislature will not refuse to grant. Such 
 being the universal sentiment of the commu- 
 nity, there is no risk in leaving the details of 
 that law to the Legislature. I hope therefore 
 that the section will be stricken out. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I do not think a gentleman 
 in this Convention is opposed to a homestead 
 exemption law. On the contrary I believe 
 
 that every member, as well as the people* 
 are strongly in favor of it. Yet I hope that 
 this entire article will be stricken out, from 
 the fact that I believe the proi^cr place for it 
 is in the Bill of Rights ; and in advocating 
 that, I may say, I am following in the course 
 pursued by other Constitutional Conventions. 
 In looking over the Constutions of other States, 
 I have not found a single instance where there 
 is a separate article upon this subject, but I 
 did find that the Constitutions of various 
 States have articles in the Bill of Rights sim- 
 ilar to the one we have. I believe that is the 
 place for it, and therefore I shall vote for 
 striking it out here. 
 
 Mr. SMITH. I would refer the gentleman 
 to the Constitutioh of Micliigan where he will 
 find a homestead exemption law in detail. 
 And why, if the people are so much in favor 
 of such a law, should we not incorporate 
 something of this kind, as the basis of future 
 legislation? The insertion of this article 
 would not preclude legislation. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I am decidenly in favor of 
 restricting ourselves, in the formation of a 
 Constitution, as much as possible, to a decla- 
 ration of general principles and of fixing the 
 rights of the people of this State by general 
 principles, without going into the details of 
 legislation. Still there is something in this 
 article which I should not like to see stricken 
 out, because the subject of the last section is 
 not provided for in the Bill of Rights. ^Vhile 
 gentlemen advocate the policy and propriety 
 of striking out the whole report, I should 
 Uke to see something like this last article Re- 
 tained. It relates to the property of married 
 women. As to the remaining portion of the 
 report, I am in favor of striking it out, as the 
 subject embraced in it is already sufficiently 
 provided for in tlve Bill of Rights already re- 
 ported. I hope we shall not go into legisla- 
 tion upon this subject as minutely as there 
 seems to be a disposition to do upon the part 
 of the committee. I think we should find 
 our labors curtailed and our Constitution im- 
 proved if we guard that point. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. I differed somewhat with 
 my associates upon the committee in regard 
 to this report, although I signed it, I did m 
 more particularly to have the subject brought 
 before the Convention. I suppose that the 
 article in the Bill of Rights covered the whoU 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, July 28. 
 
 151 
 
 ground, and is suflBcient for the action of future 
 Legislatures, and that the matter would more 
 properly come before such a body, than be- 
 fore a Constitutional Convention. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. If we go on in this way 
 with the reports of the different committees) 
 it will be pretty conclusively demonstrated 
 that we made an egregious eri'or in appointing 
 the committees at all. If we are going to 
 take the report of the committee on the Pre- 
 amble and Bill of Rights as the Constitution, 
 what was the necessity of having giny other 
 committees ? They are of no use at all. But 
 I view this matter in a different light from 
 what others do. I look upon a Bill of Rights 
 as incorporated in a Constitution, merely as a 
 recapitulation of fundamental principles and 
 nothing more. But I do consider it perfectly 
 legitimate and proper to incorporate into a 
 Constitution certain fundamental ideas, and 
 then make them so specific that there can be 
 no misconception as to their meaning — no two 
 ways in which they should be construed. For 
 instance, in regard to the subject under con- 
 sideration, the Michigan Constitution exempts 
 personal property to an amount not less than 
 five hundred dollars, and a homestead of not 
 exceeding forty acres of land, &c., going 
 specifically into the details of the matter. 
 That is what I want here, and it is all I ask. 
 Make such a general exemption here, and 
 then leave it to the Legislature to say what it 
 shall consist of in detail. 
 
 One word as to this idea that we must take 
 the thunder out of the Constitution, which 
 will be presented by the body sitting in the 
 other end of the capitol. I am in favor of it, 
 but may differ from others as to the best 
 mode of doing it. I am in favor of incorpo- 
 rating into the Constitution every popular 
 sentiment of the day, and of taking it before 
 the people and urging its adoption most 
 ardently, claiming it, as emphatically the 
 Constitution of the Republican party. I 
 shall in my future covu"se act upon that prin- 
 ciple, and thus take all the thunder out of 
 the other Constitution, by adopting and incor- 
 porating into ours all popular views of the day. 
 In reference to the Bill of Rights, I wish to 
 say that I hope there will be no definite action 
 upon it, until I shall have had an opportvmity 
 to present the substitute to which I referred 
 before. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I am in favor of a liberal 
 homestead exemption law, to protect families, 
 fi-iends, and the entire community, but I am 
 opposed to the adoption of the report of this 
 conynittee. Now, sir, if we are to take up 
 every popular sentiment of the day which we 
 may find in the report of any committee, and 
 insert them into our Constitution, we should 
 make an instrument which the people could 
 not miderstand. I am opposed to this section 
 from tlie fact that it lays down a specific 
 amount of exemption. My views of the 
 amount of exemption would probably differ 
 very much from a majority of the members 
 upon this floor. The gentleman from Winona, 
 (Mr. Balcombe) stated that he was in favor 
 of the most liberal laws in that respect, yet I 
 presume I would go further than any delegate 
 here. But, sir, if we are going to incorporate • 
 this into our Constitution, we had better 
 follow out the plan indicated by one gentle- 
 man who has spoken, and take up all the 
 isms of the day, and give them a place here. 
 But it looks to me ridiculous to embody in 
 our Constitution anything infringing on the 
 legislative department, and for that reason I 
 shall oppose this section. There is also in the 
 Bill of Right ssufficient to guarantee to every 
 man a sufficient exemption. It is so worded 
 that the Legislature can act upon the subject 
 with a due regard to the rights and wishes of 
 the people. 
 
 The question was then taken, and the sec- 
 tion was stricken out. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move to strike out the 
 second section. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I move that the committee 
 rise. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I move to strike out the 
 third section. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. To save the time of 
 the committee, I move that the committee rise 
 and report back the report to the Convention 
 with a recommendation that it be indefinitely 
 postponed. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The committee accordingly rose, and the 
 chairman reported back the report, with a 
 recommendation of the Committee that the 
 report be indefinitely postponed. 
 
152 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, July 28, 
 
 The question being on agreeing with the 
 recommendation of the committee, Mr. LYLE 
 called for the yeas and nays. 
 
 The 5'cas and nays were orderedi 
 
 The roll was then called, and the question 
 was decided in the aflBrmative, yeas 39, nays 
 9, as follows : 
 
 Yeas— Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Ayer, Bal- 
 combe, Baldwin, Bates, Bartholomew, Billings, 
 Cleghorn, Colburn, Coe,Cederstam, Coombs, Dool- 
 ey,Dickerson, Folsom, Galbraith, Gerrish, Hayden, 
 Uarding, Hudson, Hanson, HoUey, Lowe, Mantor, 
 Morgan, Mills, Murphy, Nortli, Putnam, KobbinSj 
 Russell, Stannard, Secombe, Walker, Winell, 
 Watson, and Wilson. 
 
 JVays — Messrs. BoUes, Foster, King, Kemp, 
 Lyle, McClure, Phelps, Smith and Vaughn. 
 
 And then on motion of Mr. HARDING, 
 (at twelve o'clock and thirty minutes,) the 
 Convention adjom-ned until two o'clocki 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention met at two o'clock; 
 
 Mr. MILLS offered the following resolution : 
 
 "Sesolved, That the object of a Constitution is 
 to organize a government, prescribing the nature 
 and extent of the powers of the several depart- 
 ments thereof; and that to engraft any legislative 
 enactment therein would be anti-Republican. Fur- 
 ther, that a Bill of Rights should only be declara- 
 tory of general fundamental principles." 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I am not prepared to go 
 for that resolution at the present time, nor do 
 I as yet see the propriety of passing it. It is 
 barely possible, that there might be different 
 views of what might be termed legislative 
 acts. There may be provisions that we may 
 find necessary to incorporate into the Bill of 
 Rights, which some might consider legislative 
 in their nature, while others would think 
 differently. I am of opinion that the adop- 
 tion of such a resolution would not be bene- 
 ficial at this time. 
 
 The resolution was tlien laid over under 
 the rule. 
 
 BILL OF BIGHTS. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I move that the Convention 
 now proceed to the third reading of the report 
 of the committee on the Preamble and Bill 
 of Rights. 
 
 Mr. NORTH, I would inquire if it is not 
 yet in committee of the Whole. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is not. It has been 
 reported back, and was laid upon the table. 
 It has not yet been engrossed, nor have the 
 amendments of the committee all been acted 
 
 on, and it would require a two-thirds vote tO 
 put it upon its third reading before its 
 engrossment. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I withdraw my motion, and 
 move that it be taken from the table, and that 
 we pi-oceed to act upon the amendments 
 recommended by the committee of the Whole; 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I should like to see the 
 bill disposed of to-day, but the chairman of 
 the committee which reported ' it is absent 
 now on account of sickness in his family, and 
 has been absent all the time during its con- 
 sideration. He will be here to-day, and I 
 think we had better leave it until he re- 
 turns. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair would sug- 
 gest the propriety of not finally passing any 
 of these propositions without having them 
 engrossed. It would be rather a difficult 
 matter for the Secretary to read the report in 
 its present shape, with its various amend- 
 ments so as to make it understood. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I am in favor of its bein^ 
 engrossed, but before that is done I wish to 
 say that there is a part of the report which 
 we recommitted this morning, which I should 
 like to see added to the Bill of Rights. It is 
 the section in regard to the rights of married 
 women, Jtnd if the bill is again taken up I 
 shall move such an amendment. 
 
 Mr, STANNARD. Have the amendments 
 recommended by the committee of the Whole 
 been yet concurred in ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. They have not. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. Then of course it 
 must be takfn up and the amendments 
 acted on. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the bill was 
 again before the Convention. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. Mr. President. I pro- 
 pose a substitute for the wKole report. I do 
 so' out of ntf feeling of disrespect for the 
 opinions of the gentleman who got up this 
 report, but sitaiply from the conviction that 
 the investigations were insufficient for want 
 of time on the part of tlie standing com- 
 mittee. 
 
 The substitute was read by the Secretary. 
 It is as follows : 
 
 Preamble. Wc the people of the State of Min- 
 nesota, feeling that the blessings of free govern- 
 ment can only be maintained by a firm adhcrenc* 
 to justice and strict virtue, and being desiroHi to 
 
MEsXESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Tcesdat, Jclt 28. 
 
 153 
 
 nerpetuate the blessings of civil and religions 
 liberty to our posterity, do ordain and establish 
 this Constitution. 
 
 ARTICLE I — DECLABATION OF BIGHTS. 
 
 Sectiox. 1. All men are bom equally free and 
 independent, and have cenain inalienable rights, 
 among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of 
 happiness. To secure these rights governments 
 are instituted among men, deriving their just 
 powers from the consent of the governed. 
 
 Sec. 2. There shall be neither slavery nor 
 involuntary servitude in the State, except for the 
 punishn^nt of crimes, of which the party shall 
 have been duly convicted. 
 
 Sec. 3. The liberty of the press shall forever 
 remain inviolate, and all persons may freely speak, 
 write and publish their sentiments on all subjects, 
 being responsible for the abuse of those rights. 
 
 Sec. 4. The right of the people to assemble to 
 consult for the common good, and to petition the 
 government, or any department thereof, shall 
 never be abridged. 
 
 Sec. 5. The right of trial by jury shall forever 
 remain inviolate. 
 
 Sec. 6. Liberal laws regulating capital punish- 
 ment should be enacted, but no laws prohibiting 
 such punishment shall be passed. 
 
 Sec 7. The privilege of the writ of Jidbeaa 
 corpus shall not be suspended, except in case of 
 insurrection. 
 
 Sec. 8. All persons are entitled to certain rem- 
 edy in law, for all injuries or wrongs which they 
 may sustain in their person, property or char- 
 acter. 
 
 Sec. 9. Treason against the State shall consist 
 only in bringing war against the same, or in adhe- 
 ring to its enemies, giving them aid and comfort. 
 
 Sec. 10. The right of the people to be secure 
 i'l their persons, houses, papers and effects against 
 unreasonable searches or seizures, shall not be 
 violated. 
 
 Sec 11. No bill of attainder, ex pogt facto law, 
 nor any law impairing the obligation of contracts, 
 shall be passed, and no conviction shall work cor- 
 ruption of blood or forfeiture of estate. 
 
 Sec 12. No private property shall be taken 
 •" jr pubUc use, without just compensation therefor. 
 
 Sec. 13. All lands within this State are declared 
 allodial, and feudal tenures are prohibited. 
 
 Sec 14. Xo distinction shall be made by law 
 between resident aliens and citizens, in reference 
 to the possession, enjoyment or descent of prop^ 
 erty. , 
 
 Sec 15. No imprisonment for debt shall be 
 allowed. 
 
 Sec 16. The right of the debtor to enjoy the 
 comforts of life shall be recognized by liberal and 
 -.rholesoihe exemption laws. 
 
 Sec. 17. The right of every man to worship 
 God according to the dictates of his own con- 
 science shall never be infringed, nor shall any 
 
 20 
 
 man be compelled to attend, erect, or support any 
 place of public worship, or to maintain any reli- 
 gious ministry against his consent, nor shall the 
 Legislature appropriate any public funds for the 
 support of reUgious or theological institutions. 
 
 Sec 18. No religious test or prc^rty qualifi- 
 cation shall ever be required for civil privileges. 
 
 Sec 19. The military shall be in subjection to 
 the civil power. 
 
 Sec 20. Writs of error shall never be prohibi-' 
 ted by legal enactments. 
 
 Sec 21. Lotteries shall not be authorized by 
 law. 
 
 Sec 22. The Legislature shall pass no laws 
 licensing the traffic in ardent spirits, or intoxica- 
 ting liquors. 
 
 Sec 23. Dueling shall not be allowed in the 
 State, and the Legislature is required to pass good 
 and wholesome laws prohibiting the same. 
 
 Sec 24. The criminal code shall be founded 
 upon principles of justice and reformation. 
 
 Sec 25. The people shall have the right to 
 bear arms in defense of themselves and the State. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Mr. Pbesidest: There are 
 some things in that substitute that I like, and 
 I don't know but I should like most of it. I 
 move that it lie on the table and be printed, 
 that we may have an opportunity of examin- 
 ing it more at leisure. 
 
 The motion was agi'eed to. 
 
 So the substitute was ordered to be printed, 
 and the question recurred on the amendments 
 recommended by the committee of the Whole. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I move that the report of 
 the standing committee be laid on the table. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I move that the bill 
 before the Convention together with the 
 amendments, be printed. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The motion to lay on 
 the table takes precedence. 
 
 The motion to lay on the table was re- 
 jected. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I now renew my 
 motion to have the bill and amendments 
 printed. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I was going to move an ad- 
 ditional clause — if I have the permission of 
 the gentleman — in regard to the rights of 
 married women. I will m ove that the fol- 
 lowing section be added : 
 
 " Sec — Married women shall have the right 
 to hold and convey real and ptersonal property, 
 in their own right, and separately from their 
 husbands." 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The amendment is 
 not properly in order, until the amendments 
 recommended by the committee of the "Whole 
 
154 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesdat, Jult 28. 
 
 ^ 
 
 shall be disposed of, no other amendment will 
 be in order. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move to re-commit 
 the report of the standing committee with the 
 amendments in committee of the Whole, 
 together with the substitute, and the resolu- 
 tions submitted this afternoon upon the same 
 subject, to the standing committee on the Bill 
 of Rights. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. Tlie substitute has 
 been-ordered to lie on the table to be printed. 
 A motion to take it up would be in order. 
 ' Mr. SMITH. I move to take the substitute 
 from the table. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I hope that will not prevail. 
 I hope the paper will be allowed to go to the 
 printing offiee and be printed, that we may 
 all look at it and compare it with other propo- 
 sitions, and decide between them as to what 
 we want. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. Pbesident : It does 
 appear to me that we have a committee 
 competent to their task, and if this substitute 
 shall be referred to them, and if there are 
 good ideas in it — and I confess there are some 
 that I like — I think they are abundantly com- 
 petent to put them into the article. It looks 
 to me like unnecessary work to print. There 
 bas been one report printed, and to print any 
 more would be out of the usual course. I 
 think it would be far better to refer the whole 
 to the standing committee, and let them 
 investigate it. If there are valuable ideas 
 suggested, I trust they will incorporate them. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I object to this mode 
 of forming a Constitution. We have spent 
 considerable time on the Bill of Rights, and it 
 ■is only out of courtesy that I should feel dis- 
 posed to refer the substitute. Although the 
 substitute might be even better than the 
 original report, I would not vote for it with- 
 out first extending this courtesy to the com- 
 mittee, which is usually extended by deliber- 
 ative bodies. The committee luve prepared 
 their report, no doubt, with great care and 
 labor, and here we have a substitute for it 
 which it is proposed to print. It is out of 
 the line of parliamentary proceeding to order 
 a substitute to be printed. It would be dis- 
 courteous toward the committee, unless the 
 original and amendments were also printed. 
 I have all confidence in the standing com- 
 Hiitteo on the Bill of Rights, and instead of 
 
 having so much printing done, and taking up 
 so much time, I should prefer that the whole 
 subject were simply referred again. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I am opposed to all 
 reference of the matter at present. We have 
 had a clean report from the standing com- 
 mittee, and that report has been considered 
 in committee of the Whole. But no attention 
 has been given by the Convantion to the 
 amendments recommended by the committee 
 of the Whole. We have no assurance as to 
 "whether the Convention might not#iow be 
 satisfied with i^e present shape of the report. 
 I think it better first to ascertain whether the 
 Convention will accept and adopt the amend- 
 ments of the committee of the Whole. This 
 motion seems to be taking the matter again 
 out of our hands. Some gentlemen say they 
 have not been present when this article has ^ 
 been before us. To be sure, a good many 
 have taken it upon themselves to go home 
 about their own business ; but I do not like 
 to see this used as an argument and a reason 
 why we should go over this matter again. It 
 has been now two or three days since this 
 report came back from the committee of the 
 Whole, and it seems to me nothing but cour- 
 tesy that we should act upon their recom- 
 mendations ; and if we find we are not satis- 
 fied, then it will be time enough to make 
 another reference. TiU then, I am opposed 
 to all reference of the matter. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The first question is 
 on the motion to print the article with the 
 amendments. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Would it not be well to 
 print the amendments in the bill ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The amendments have 
 not been made yet. 
 
 Mr. WILSON.. They will bo printed, as 
 recommended by the committee of the Whole. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I hope this will not pass. 
 It would be folly to send a paper to be printed 
 in that condition. I think, myself, it would 
 be as well not to have it printed at all. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair would 
 suggest, that it would bo almost impossible 
 for the printer to ferret out the amendments. 
 
 Mr. CLEGIIORN. I withdraw the motion 
 
 The question recui-ring on Mr. Smith's 
 motion, it was agreed to, and the substitute 
 was again before the Convention. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President, I move 
 
MINXESOTA COXVENTION DEBATES— Titesday, Jult 28. 
 
 155 
 
 that the report and amendments, with the 
 substitute, be re-committed to the standing 
 committee. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The course indicated by 
 this motion will require several days before 
 we can get tliis matter before us again. After 
 the report shall be again made by the stand- 
 ing committee, it has then to be read the first 
 and second time and printed ; then it has to 
 be considered in committee of the whole ; 
 then, on a subsequent day, it has to be 
 brought before this body. In other words, it 
 is taking the back track for about a week, in 
 order to go again over the very same ground 
 we have been over before. I wish, Mr. Pbesi- 
 DEST, to get along as fast as possible with 
 this matter. These amendments have been 
 long enough before the Convention, and new 
 amendments can be offered. I hope gentle- 
 men will not insist on going back and being 
 delayed so long. 
 
 Mr. PERKIXS. As I look at it, this de- 
 lay is for the espec:al benefit of those who 
 saw fit to leave their places here and go 
 home about their own business. The Con- 
 vention refused last week to adjomn over till 
 Monday, for the sake of enabling these gen- 
 tleman to retire. Nevertheless, they saw fit 
 to go, and I understand that some, who were 
 left here for the sake of aiding in the move- 
 ment, when their names were called, refused 
 to answer, for the sake of putting off the busi- 
 ness of the Convention. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEX (interrupting.) I rise to a 
 point of order. I think the gentleman is not 
 on the subject. . 
 
 The PRESIDENT. [Mr. Secombe in the 
 Chair.] The Chair is of opinion, that the 
 gentleman from Rice county is on the subject. 
 Mr. PERKINS. I understand that there 
 was a plan contrived to have this thing laid 
 over, so as to give these gentlemen a chance 
 to come back and take part. I do not know 
 that this is correct ; but it seems to me that 
 the movement to-day must be for the special 
 benefit of those who left Inasmuch, then, 
 as this report has been fully considered in 
 committee of the Whole, and the whole 
 ground has been traveled over, it seems to 
 me, it is a matter of sheer justice to those 
 members who have remained here, that this 
 delay should not be permitted. I hope the 
 majority of this Convention will not delay ; 
 
 but that the business in hand may be dis- 
 posed of, and we may take hold of other 
 matter, so that we may not be obliged to 
 spend six months in fi*aming a Constitutioti, 
 when three or four weeks would be sufiBcient. 
 Mr. BATES. Mr. President: I think 
 the gentleman from Rice county is vmder a 
 mistake. I am one of those who have been 
 away ; and I was the one who made the mo- 
 tion this afternoon that the report of the 
 committee on the Preamble and Bill of Rights 
 be taken up ; and I desire to proceed immedi- 
 ately to act upon the amendments recom- 
 mended by the committee of the Whole. I 
 was in fiivor of going forward with business, 
 and am so stiU. I was opposed to the sub- 
 stitute, and opposed to the ordfer to print. I 
 am now in fiivor of going forward with the 
 consideration of the amendments. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I feel cafled upon to 
 explain the reason of my standing outside 
 the bar yesterday — as the gentleman alh^ed 
 to me — to break a quorum. I did it, sir, on 
 the grovmd that I beHeve the majority ought 
 to rule. There were but twenty-nine mem- 
 bers present, and I certainly thought it wrong 
 to proceed. I would rather the whole one 
 hundred and eight were here than the fifty- 
 nine, — ^much rather the fifty-nine than the 
 twenty- two or twenty-three who then remained 
 in their seats. I am ready to stand by all that 
 I did. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Mr. Pbesidext: I have 
 twice suggested a postponement of the mat- 
 ter of the report of this committee — inasmuch 
 as we had other matter before us — ^untU the 
 Chairman of the conmiittee should be pres- 
 ent. That gentleman, however, never spoke 
 to me about putting off action. He is absent 
 because his child is sick, as I understand — 
 absent necessarily ; and I thought it would 
 be proper to leave it till he should be 
 present ; for upon this, as upon every sub- 
 ject, I should be very glad to have his coun- 
 sel and assistance. I shall certainly vote for 
 giving the report again to the committee, or 
 for any delay of its consideration imder the 
 circumstances. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I hope the motion to re- 
 commit will prevafl. I happen to know, that 
 the standing committee did not take the time 
 in getting up their report which they would 
 have taken, had they not supposed, that the 
 
156 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, July 28. 
 
 report should be presented very early in our 
 deliberations here. Consequently, they has- 
 tened to get through with it, expecting the 
 Convention to do with it as they saw fit. 
 They did not give the subject the attention it 
 deserved, as I have understood from them- 
 selves ; and J believe, if they all understood 
 l^ow the mfittter now stands, they would be 
 exceedingly gratified if the Convention would 
 ^.llow it to go back to them. It seems to me 
 such a course is necessary to the perfection 
 of the work. 
 
 I for one, would not like to see the Consti- 
 tution go out with such imperfections that we 
 would not like to look upon it hereafter. I 
 want a Constitution that the State shall be 
 proud of— one that will not need revising for 
 a hundred years to come. And to accom- 
 plish such a work, I hope we shall take all 
 the time that may be necessary. I am one 
 of those really needing my own time at home, 
 but I am not willing to go away from this 
 place and leave our work half done. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEX. I made the motion to 
 recommit for ftie express purpose of expe- 
 diting business. That report was made, and, 
 in my opinion, weak as it may be, it is a very 
 good Bill of Bights. I do not pretend to say 
 but that it needs some amendments, but we 
 see it lumbered up with almost innumerable 
 amendments ; and at this time a substitute is 
 offered for tl^e whole bill, a vote taken to lay 
 it upon the table and have it printed. That 
 will consume some time. It seems to me 
 that the only correct course for us to pursue 
 is to recommit the whole matter. 
 
 In regard to the assertion that many of us 
 were absent when the report was acted upon, 
 and that we therefore complain of forcing 
 action upon it now, I will say that I have- 
 made no complaint, though I was absent 
 during its consideration. I have had some 
 little legislative experience, and I am willing 
 that my course should be properly presented. 
 During the last six months I have spent 
 eighty-nine days in this place in a legislative 
 capacity, and in all that time, I believe that 
 the roll has been called but once when I have 
 failed to respond to my name. It is true I 
 absented myself from the Convention a part 
 of the last week. I went home on account 
 of sickness, and nothing but the peculiar cir- 
 cumstances in which this Convention is placed 
 
 would have induced me to return now. I do 
 not complain in the least of amendments hav- 
 ing been made during my absence. I am 
 glad the business has been done and I pre- 
 sume it has been well done. But I think 
 now, at this stage and position of the report, 
 that the best possible, the most cautious, and 
 the straight forward course, is to recommit 
 it, that the committee may have a fair chance 
 to compare the substitute with the report. If 
 they find the substitute better than the origi- 
 nal I presume they will adopt it. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I am very sorry to see 
 so much of the time of the Convention occu- 
 pied in this manner, and apparently for no 
 earthly good that any one can percieve. The 
 substitute oflfered by the gentleman from 
 Rico County (Mr. Bolles) contains but one 
 or two sections, and one or two subjects, 
 differing from the report made by the com- 
 mittee. Now is it necessary, in order that we 
 may get tjiose additions into the Bill of Rights, 
 that we should take under consideration the 
 whole substitute, after having spent two or 
 three days upon the report ? The proper 
 course for the gentleman to have taken to have 
 his new ideas included in the Bill of Rights 
 would have been to offer them by way of 
 amendment, that he could have done after 
 the committee of the Whole had reported 
 back the report to the Convention with the 
 amendments. He could have got them inserted 
 just as well, and even better, by offering them 
 as amemendments, than by way of substi- 
 tute for the whole biU. If he only wanted 
 to change the phraseology — and I perceive 
 that he has changed the language of the re- 
 port but very little in the substitute he has 
 offered — why did he not offer amendments to 
 accomplish tliat purpose ? and not encumber 
 the journals with a long substitute for the 
 whole, and occupy the time of the Conven- 
 tion with it ? 
 
 Now, sir, it is not, as was taken for granted 
 by another gentleman from Rice County, that 
 the reason for tliis movement is that cer- 
 tain gentlemen were absent when the report 
 was considered in committee of the Whole. 
 There is sompthing back of all that, and I am 
 sorry to see it, and I hope I shall not see it 
 in this Convention again. It is this matter 
 of little jealousies and little piques, alleging 
 that this committee and that committee have 
 
MIXXESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tiesd at, Jclt 28. 
 
 15T 
 
 infringed upon the rights of other committees. 
 I think the time of this Convention should 
 not be occupied with such tridal matters. 
 Committeas were simply appointed to present 
 to the Convention a firame work of a Consti- 
 tution, which we are afterwards to side up, 
 put on a cornice, a roof, «Sbc., without refer- 
 ence to its origin from any committee what- 
 ever. That is a matter of minor importance 
 in this work, and they are worthy of no con- 
 sideration in the deliberations of this body. 
 
 The gentleman from Rice County has left 
 out from his substitute certain sections which 
 were claimed here, the other day, should have 
 been reported from some other committee — I 
 do not now recollect what they were and I 
 care not. It is a petty jealousy which ought 
 not to be recognized. Those sections are in 
 their proper place. Just such sections are 
 contained" in the Bill of Rights of every Con- 
 stitution which has a Bill of Rights, and I 
 care not from what committee they come. 
 They are sections calculated to protect the 
 rights of the people and they belong where 
 they are, if anywhere. 
 
 Now what ditference does it make whether 
 one committee or another reported them ? It 
 is of no importance. And now after the re- 
 port has been considered in committee of the 
 Whole for two or three days and reported 
 back to the Convention with certain amend- 
 ments, we should go to work and' adopt or 
 reject those amendments, and then if any 
 gentieman wishes to add an additional section, 
 let him move to add it, and if we want to 
 change the phraseology, we can do it If 
 there is any section there which does not be- 
 long to the Bill of Rights, it will be in order 
 to move to strike it out. We should proceed 
 in the straight forward, manly and parliamen- 
 tary way. 
 
 I make these remarks not because I have 
 any personal feelings in the matter. I have 
 not. I am willing to sit here six weeks if it 
 is necessary to do so, but I desire that we 
 should go directly forward and do our duty, 
 be the time longer or shorter. I do not want 
 to see the time of the Convention taken up in 
 this trivial, imusual and undignified man- 
 ner. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I hope the motion wiU 
 not prevail. I believe with the gentleman 
 who last spoke, that it is our duty, as a Con- 
 
 vention, to go directly to the consideration of 
 the recommendation of the committee of the 
 Whole. I can see notliing gained by refer- 
 ring the report back to the committee. If it 
 is so referred and they make another report, 
 we shall have to go over the whole groimd 
 again. It must be again considered in com- 
 mittee of the Whole section by section, and 
 I venture the prediction that there would be 
 quite as many amendments offered the next 
 time as there have been this. It is not to be 
 supposed that the report of a committee on 
 a subject of this kind is going to meet the 
 views of every member ; and hence amend- 
 ments will be offered again and again, and 
 when we get through, it is not probable that 
 we shall be any better off than we are now. 
 My opinion therefore is, that we had better 
 go on and consider the amendments. We 
 shall save time and money by so doing. 
 
 As regards the matter of the Chairman of 
 the committee being absent, I must say that 
 while I claim to have some regard to the ex- 
 ercise of courtesy towards members, he has 
 no claim to courtesy in this respect. A gen- 
 tleman says he is absent on account of sick- 
 ness in his family. I really very much doubt 
 whether that is the reason why he is not in 
 this Convention now. He told me some four 
 days before he left, that he should leave and 
 go home on thftt day. He told other gentle- 
 men that he was going home to address a 
 public meeting. He said nothing about sick- 
 ness in his family. 
 
 Again, in reference to his having considered 
 this matter more fully than any other member. 
 I doubt whether he. gave that consideration to 
 the Bin of Rights which was given to it in 
 committee of the Whole. He certainly drew 
 it up in one evening — the very evening the 
 committee was appointed — and presented it 
 to the Convention the next day. He did not 
 have time to give to it more consideration 
 tlian other members have given to it, and I 
 very much doubt whether he would make 
 any such claim. From the very fact that he 
 has been gone so long I do not consider that 
 it is due to him, that this Convention should 
 delay on his account. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I would not have it 
 understood that I am in favor of pressing the 
 Convention to vote to-day upon the various 
 committees or upon the gentleman's substi- 
 
158 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, July 28. 
 
 tute, but my idea is that if we want to await 
 the return of the Chairman of the committee, 
 or if we want more time to consider the sub- 
 ject, the proper way would be to lay the re- 
 port upon the table, where we can get at it 
 at any time. It is the re-committal to the 
 committee to which I am so much opposed, 
 thereby compelling us to go over the whole 
 matter again in the committee of the Whole 
 upon the new report wliich that committee 
 might make. I am opposed, too, to sending 
 this substitute to the office to be printed, 
 thereby incurring still further expense. Our 
 expenses will be sufficient without incurring 
 any that are unnecessary. 
 
 I move that the report together Math the 
 substitute be laid upon the table. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. I suppose all debate is 
 cut off by that motion. 1 see some gentle- 
 men here who always violate the rule by 
 making two or three speeches, and then cut 
 off" all debate by some motion. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I withdraw my motion 
 if the gentlemftn wishes to speak. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. I do not wish to take up 
 the.time of the Convention, 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I wish simply to say that 
 if we had gone directly to work after we had 
 reconsidered the motion to print, we should 
 have got half through the bUl before this time. 
 I am decidedly opposed to spending any more 
 time in discussing the merits of one another 
 here, or the complaints as to the manner in 
 which the business of the Convention has 
 been done. We had better proceed to busi- 
 ness at once. 
 
 I hope the motion to re-commit will not 
 prevail, and if we are not to have the substi- 
 tute printed, I hope we shall proceed section 
 by section through the bill, and pass upon it 
 to-day and have something finished. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I demand the yeas and 
 nays upon the motion to re-commit. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered. 
 
 The roll was then called, and it was de- 
 cided in the negative, yeas 8, nays 41, as fol- 
 lows: 
 
 Jeo*— -Messrs. Aldrich, Bolles, Folsom, Hayden, 
 Stannard, Smith, Watson and Wilson. — 8. 
 
 Hays. — Messrs. Anderson, Aycr, Balcombe, Bald- 
 win, Bates, Bartholomew, Butler, Clcghorn, Col- 
 bum, Coe, Cederstom, Coombs, Davis, Duley, 
 Dickerson, Eschlic, Galbraith, Gerrish, Hall, Hard- 
 ing, Hudson, llansoD, lloUcy, King, Kemp, Lylc, 
 
 Mantor, McCann, McClure, Morgan, North, Phelps, 
 Perkins, Putnam, Peckham, llobbins, Russell, 
 Secombe, Vaughn, Walker, Winell, and Sheldon. 
 —41. 
 
 On motion of Mr. NORTH, the Convention 
 then proceeded to the consideration of the 
 amendments to the report. 
 
 The first question being on the substitute 
 off"ered by Mr. BOLLES. 
 
 On motion of Mr. NORTH, the same was 
 laid upon the table. 
 
 The amendments reported by the commit- 
 tee of the whole were then taken up and con- 
 sidered as follows : 
 
 First amendment, section three, line two, 
 insert the word " such," so that the clause 
 shall read, — ■ 
 
 " Every person may freely speak, write and pub- 
 lish his sentiments on all subjects, being responsi- 
 ble for the abuse of such right." 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 
 Third amendment, section two, insert after 
 the word " libel" the words "or slander" and 
 after the word "libellous" the words "or 
 slanderous," so that the clause shall read, — 
 
 " In all criminal prosecutions or indictments for 
 libel or slander the truth may be given in evi- 
 dence ; and if it shall appear to the jury that the 
 matter charged as libellous or slanderous be true, 
 and was published with good motives and for jus- 
 tifiable ends, the party shall be acquitted ; and the 
 jury shall have the right to determine the law and 
 the fact." 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 
 Third amendment, section two, strike out 
 the words " the jury shall have the right to 
 " determine the law and the fact" and insert : 
 "in all indictments for libel, the jury after 
 " having received the direction of the court, 
 " shall have the right, to determine at their 
 " discretion, the law and the fact." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope that amendment 
 will not be adopted. I do not understand 
 that it changes the effect of the provision as 
 it now stands. As it now stands, under the 
 conunon law, the jury are bound by the 
 ruling charge of the judge, and if they find 
 a verdict against that ruling or charge, tlio 
 verdict could be properly set aside. If I un- 
 derstand the object of the provision as inserted 
 here, it is to take that power from the judge 
 and give it to the jury, so tliat when they 
 have heard the facts in the case — and they will 
 hear, of course, for their enlightenment, and 
 the law from both sides, and in addition to 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Tcesdat, July 28. 
 
 159 
 
 that, the law from the judge, — then they are 
 made the judges, not only of the facts in the 
 case, but of the law. Now I do not under- 
 stand how the provision of the amendment 
 alters it. If it does alter it, it destroys the 
 whole effect which is intended to be obtained. 
 
 There is another difference, it makes a dis- 
 tiaction between libel and slander. And if 
 that was the intention of the mover of the 
 amendment I should still be oposed to it, for 
 I cannot consent to have libel, or written 
 slander, receive a benefit which is denied to 
 spoken slander. Slander when spoken has 
 but a small circle in which it moves, but when 
 it is written or printed it circulates not only 
 more widely, but through a longer lapse of 
 time, and it certainly should have no privilege 
 over slander. But I suppose that was a dis- 
 crepancy which arose from the fact that the 
 amendment which has been adopted, was 
 then under discussion. I am opposed to the 
 amendment. 
 
 Mr. "WILSON. I think, Mr. President, 
 that the amendment contains about the idea 
 we wish to incorporate. There are two 
 theories upon the subject, — an old one, revered 
 by many in our midst, that the court shall 
 determine the law — which is the case in civil 
 actions, and in most cases in ciiminal actions. 
 The other is that the jury shall determine the 
 law as well as the fact. I am in favor of the 
 latter with a modification. There is not a 
 man in the room who has sat upon a jury in 
 a criminal case but has noticed the fact, that 
 juries are generally composed of a class of 
 men who do not see the point as quickly as 
 might be, and that after a long and intricate 
 case has been gone through with, a little 
 explanation makes the point clear to them. I 
 wish to make it the duty of the judge to state 
 to the jury what the law is. Here is coimisel 
 on the one side, and coimsel on the other. 
 We do know that counsel, honest as they 
 may be, when engaged in any case, naturally 
 ^vill lean towards their own side, and they try 
 to make that side the stronger. How fre- 
 quently do we hear our coimsel 'declare— -and 
 especially wiU that be the case when the jury 
 are made judges of the law — ^that the law is 
 so and so, while the other declares that such 
 is not the fact. Now the judge, sitting upon 
 the bench, is supposed to know what the law 
 is, and he usually does know. The judge is 
 
 not interested, he is not feed upon either side; 
 nor are his prejudices and feelings enlisted on 
 either side. He sits as a moderator upon both 
 parties, and he states to the jury what the law 
 is. After that time the jury are left at perfect 
 freedom to decide whether the law is interpre- 
 ted by the judges or not. All that is proposed 
 by this amendment is that the judge shall 
 state the law to the jury, for the purpose of 
 enUghtening them — which I think is necessary 
 in almost every case. After he has done so, 
 it is at their discretion to decide whichever 
 way they please. It is not the same provis* 
 ion that is contained in the original section, 
 nor does it destroy any principle contained in 
 that section. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I differ with the gentleman 
 who has just taken his seat, and I hope the 
 amendment will not be conciured in, for this 
 reason : if it is necessary at all to legislate 
 upon the duties of the judge and jury, and 
 especially to change the law either in civil or 
 criminal cases, I do not think that this is the 
 place to do it. We simply set forth the rights 
 and powers of juries in this case, and that is 
 all we need to do. I suppose that it is under- 
 stood that the power of the judge to charge 
 the jury in cases of slander, as well as in aU 
 other cases, is already abundantly secured. 
 But even if it is necessary to have a special 
 law to that effect, it is better to have it else- 
 where than in the BiU of Rights. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. I hope the amendment 
 will be concurred in. I was opposed to this 
 amendment when it was first suggested by 
 the gentlemen from Winona, (Mr. Wilson.) 
 I do not understand that the original report 
 of the committee prohibited the judge fit)m 
 instructing the jury upon any point of law 
 which either party might require. Hence I 
 should ha'^e been entirely opposed to any 
 amendment upon that ground, beUeving as I 
 do, that either party may ask the court to 
 charge the jury in regard to it. The court 
 may give it, and the jury give what weight 
 they choose to it. But I am in favor of the 
 amendment now, from the fact that it wiU 
 have an important bearing to show what the 
 sense of this Convention is upon another 
 point — that is upon the amendment which has 
 just been adopted — offered by the gentleman 
 fix)m St. Anthony, (Mr. Secombe) inserting 
 the words "slander" and "slanderous" 
 
160 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, July 23. 
 
 whereby we said that an indictment under 
 the laws of the land may be sustained for 
 verbal slander. Now it seems to me that this 
 amendment of the gentleman from Winona, 
 will show, when this clause of the Constitu- 
 tion goes out to the people, that it was not 
 the intention of this Convention to say any 
 such thing, for he confines his amendn>ent to 
 the term "libel." It seems to me that it will 
 show conclusively that this Convention never 
 did intend to say that an indictment could be 
 found for verbal slander. I am in favor of it 
 upon that ground, in order that it may place 
 us right upon that subject ; for so far as I am 
 concerned, I do not wish to have it under- 
 stood that I would advocate and vote for this 
 clruse without the term " slander " in it, for I 
 do not imderstand that, according to the laws 
 of this country, an indictment can be found 
 against an individual for verbal slander. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I am still opposed to the 
 amendment, and for the very reason just 
 assigned. I am decidedly opposed to this 
 Convention instituting a distinction which 
 has not been heretofore instituted, and a dis- 
 tinction which, to my mind, has no founda- 
 tion in reason or philosophy — a distinction 
 between a slander uttered by the mouth and 
 that uttered by the pen. The idea of making 
 an act a penal offence and indictable, when 
 done in one way, and not when done in 
 another, is nonsense. I do not know why it 
 is not just as wrong for me to accuse my 
 neighbor of theft or robbery, and circulate 
 that with my lips, whispering it here and 
 there through the community wherever I could 
 get an opportunity, and why it is not as com- 
 mon to produce injurious results in that man- 
 ner, as it is to sit down and write that same 
 thing and publish it through the newspapers. 
 I do not know why the effect is not the same. 
 I do not know why the thing itself is not the 
 same, and it seems to me that the law author- 
 ities have so regarded it. I do not see any 
 reason why this Convention should make any 
 distinction in that particular. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I feel called upoh to 
 make a few furtlicr remarks upon this sub- 
 ject. I supposed after I read the authority 
 upon this subject the other day, while wo 
 were in committee of the Whole, that no 
 member of this Convention would think it an 
 extraordinary thing that this Convention 
 
 should recognize the principles of the Ameri-' 
 can common law as laid down in every ele- 
 mentary treatise published in this country. 
 When I oflfered, in the committee of the 
 Whole, an amendment to insert the words 
 " slander," and "slanderous," in connection' 
 with "libel," and "libelous." I never sup- 
 posed any gentleman would raise that ques- 
 tion. I did not have any doubt in my own 
 mind, bnt after a gentleman did raise the 
 question, I immediately began to look about 
 to see if I had made such an egregious blun- 
 der as that. I found that a majority of tho 
 legal members of this Convention differed 
 with me upon that point, and I took the pains 
 to consult the authorities upon the subject, 
 and I laid my hand on Wuakton's American 
 common law, and read from it the other day.- 
 I now propose to read the same sections 
 again. 
 
 On pages five hundred and thirty-four and 
 five of that work, I find the following : 
 
 "An indictment will lie for all words spoken of 
 another which impute to him the commission of 
 some crime punishable by law, such as high trea- 
 son, murder, or other felony (whether by statute 
 or at common law) forgery, perjury, subornation 
 of perjury, and other misdemeanors." 
 
 "An indictment will lie for all words spoken of 
 another which will have the effect of excluding 
 him from society, as for instance to cliarge him 
 with having an infectious disease, such as leprosy, 
 the vchereal disease, the itch or the like. But 
 charging him with having had a contagious dis- 
 ease is not actionable, for, as this relates to time 
 past, it is no reason why his society should be 
 avoided ai present." 
 
 On page five hundred and thirty-six the 
 limitation of this doctrine is found : 
 
 "No indictment however will lie for words not 
 reduced to writing unless they be seditious, blas- 
 phemous, grossly immoral, or uttered to a magis- 
 trate in the execution of his office, or uttered as a 
 challenge to fight a duel, or with an intention to 
 provoke the other party to send a challenge." 
 
 Now it seems to me, there is authority 
 which this Convention need not feel ashamed 
 to recognize. If this amendment prevails, 
 after the recommendation of the committee of 
 the Whole shall have been passed upon, I 
 shall move an additional amendment to this 
 very section, as it will stand amended, to 
 insert the word "slander," in this very 
 place. 
 
 A word further in regard to the interpreta- 
 tion given by the gentleman from Winona to 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tlksday, Jlly 28. 
 
 161 
 
 tiie object of this provision, and that is that 
 the judge might act as] the tMrd counsel in 
 tlie case, that he might have the privilege of 
 arguing to the jury what the law was, and 
 that they then should decide it according to 
 their own discretion. I would be the last one 
 to inflict upon the judge the duty of stating 
 the law to the jury with the tmderstanding 
 that it was mere gratuitous advice upon his 
 part. If the judge is to decide the law, let it 
 be so understood, and if the jury are to de- 
 cide the law, let that be equally well under- 
 stood, and then let the judge use his discre- 
 tion about charging the jury. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I hope the amendment 
 wiU not prevail, and if it does not, I shall 
 move to strike out all after the word " ac- 
 quitted," in this section, for the purpose of 
 inserting the general rule by adding thereto 
 the words "in all criminal cases the jury 
 shall have the right to determine the law and 
 fact." As the section now stands it is unne- 
 cessary and partial, for it only applies to 
 cases of libel and slander. It is a well un- 
 derstood rule of law that in all cases the jury 
 are obliged to determine the law and the fact. 
 That has always been admitted. No jury 
 can ever determine and find a verdict in a 
 criminal case, without, to some extent, de- 
 termining the law. A man, for instance, is 
 charged with burglary, and the first question 
 to determine is whether the facts constitute, 
 in law, burglary ; or whether it is petty lar- 
 ceny, or some other ofiense. It is in fact, the 
 common law rule, recognized not only in this 
 country but in England, that the jury must 
 in every criminal case, to some extent, deter- 
 mine the law. That is, whether the crime 
 charged was committed in fact, and whether 
 the facts with which the criminal is charged, 
 do, in fact, constitute that crime. If the 
 criminal is charged with murder, the first 
 thing to determine is whether murder has 
 been committed, or whether it is not man- 
 slaughter. 
 
 It seems to me the rule should be general, 
 and that there should be inserted a clause 
 such as I have mentioned. The rule has 
 been more extended in some States than in 
 others, and there has been some very laugha- 
 ble results from it. I recollect that upon the 
 trial in Massachusetts of some persons 
 charged with a.«!sisting in the escape of fugi- 
 21 
 
 tive slaves, the people of that State thought 
 that the law in reference to instruction to 
 juries, was rather too harsh, and they passed 
 a law leaving it to the jury to decide tlie law 
 in criminal cases. The first application of 
 that law made by juries, was to decide that 
 the Maine liquor law was unconstitutional. 
 And in every case which was brought up in 
 Boston, the juries decided that the law was 
 not law because it was imconstitutional, and 
 there was no case of conviction under that 
 law for more than two years, because the 
 juries had the right to decide what was law 
 and what was not law. 
 
 But it seems to me there is no question but 
 that jurors have always had the right to de- 
 cide the law in criminal cases, 
 
 Mr. LOWE demanded the yeas and nays 
 upon the amendment. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered. 
 
 The question was then taken and it was 
 decided in the negative. 
 
 Yeas twenty-one, and nays thirty-one, as 
 follows : 
 
 Teas — Messrs. Aldridh, Anderson, Balcombe, 
 Billings, Butler, Cederstam, Dickerson, Folsom, 
 Gerrish, Hajden, Holley, Lisle, Lowe, Mantor, 
 McCann, McClure, Mills, Peckham, Smith, "Walker, 
 and Wilson — 21. 
 
 Nays — Messrs. Aver, Baldwin, Bates, Bartholo- 
 mew, Bolles, Cleghom, Colburn, Coe, Davis, 
 Duley, Eschlie, Galbraith, Hall, Harding, Hud- 
 son, Hanson, King, Kemp, Morgan, North, Phelps, 
 Perkins, Putnam, Bobbins, Russell, Stannard, 
 Secombe, Vaughn, Winell, Watson and Sheldon. 
 — 31i 
 
 Mr. KING moved (at fovur o'clock and ten 
 minutes) that the Convention adjourn. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Fourth Amendment. — 
 
 (A mere verbal amendment, and was con- 
 curred in.) 
 
 Fifth Amendment. — Strike out all of section 
 seven and insert the following : 
 
 " In all criminal prosecutions the accused shall 
 enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial by an 
 impartial jury of the county or district wherein 
 the criminal shall have been committed, which 
 county or district shall have been previously ascer- 
 tained by law, and to be informed of the nature 
 and cause of the accusation against him ; to be 
 confronted with the witnesses against him ; to have 
 compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his 
 favor, and to hava the assistance of coonsel for his 
 defence. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I cannot understand that 
 there is any difference between that substi- 
 
162 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, Jult 28. 
 
 tute and the original section, except in the 
 phraseology. The original section is in these 
 words : 
 
 "In all criminal prosecutions the accused shall 
 enjoy the right to be heard by himself and counsel; 
 to demand the nature and cause of the accusation 
 against him ; to meet the witnesses face to face ; 
 to have compulsory process to compel the attend- 
 ance of witnesses in his behalf, and in prosecutions 
 by indictment or information, to a speedy public 
 trial by an impartial jurj' of the county or district 
 wherein the offence shall have been committed, 
 which county or district shall have been previously 
 ascertained by law." 
 
 If there is to be any amendments made to 
 that, I suppose it would be the particular 
 business of tlie committee on Arrangement 
 and Phraseology to suggest it, and tmless we 
 can materially improve it, I do not see why 
 we should adopt the substitute. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would state for the 
 information of the gentleman, that the provis- 
 ion in question, offered as an amendment in 
 committee of the Whole, was agreed upon 
 after a long discussion and the offering of a 
 great many propositions as amendments. 
 This amendment is equivalent to a provision 
 in the Constitution of the United States, and 
 was adopted as a union measure. That 
 accounts for its appearance here, and yet 
 perhaps it is not materially different from the 
 original section. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. The intention and pur- 
 port of the original section is the same as a 
 similar section in the Constitution of the 
 United States. But it was not expressed in 
 precisely the same language, and in my 
 opinion not as good language. The clause in 
 the Constitution of the United States, like 
 most clauses in that instrument, has received 
 a judicial interpretation, and has come to be 
 understood very uniformly. The language 
 used there is significant, and expi'esses just 
 the idea intended to be conveyed. There was 
 some debate in the committee upon the mean- 
 ing of this section. There was more particu- 
 larly a discussion upon the meaning of the 
 words " to meet the witnesses face to face," 
 and as it reads in the original clause without 
 any addition to it, in my judgment it means 
 nothing at all. It was to get rid of such 
 equivocal clauses, that the words of the Con- 
 stitution of the United States were adopted 
 word for word, and it seems to me no gen- 
 
 tleman can object to a substitute of that 
 kind. 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 
 Sixth Amendment. — Section eight, after the 
 word "himself" insert the words, "nor be de- 
 prived of life, liberty or property without due 
 process of law." 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 
 Seventh Amendment. — Section fourteen, strike 
 out the word " agricultural." 
 
 The original clause of the section reads as 
 follows ; 
 
 "Leases and grants of agricultural land for a 
 longer term than fifteen years, in which rent or 
 service of any kind shall be reserved, and all fines 
 and like restraints upon alienation reserved in any 
 grant of land hereafter made, are declared to be 
 void." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I hope the amendment 
 will not be concurred in. Sueh a provision 
 would be unprecedented. I do not think that 
 a provision prohibiting the lease of land not 
 agricultural, can be found in the Constitution 
 of any State of the Union. Leases of non-' 
 agricultural lands are as common as any 
 mode of conveyance. Leases of town lots 
 for fifty or a hundred years are veiy common, 
 and leases of water power and other rights 
 have been common in every country. Now 
 I apprehend that the object of a Bill of Rights 
 is to protect persons in their rights, and not 
 to prohibit their use. We undertake to say 
 here, that a man who holds a lot of land, shall 
 not have it for more than fifteen years. That 
 is a direct prohibition of the use of his land^ 
 I do not sec vrhy, if I desire to keep a piece 
 of land for my children, I should be deprived 
 of the privilege of leasing it more than fifteen 
 years. In many cases it is an advantageous 
 mode of dealing with property, both for the 
 lessor and the lessee. Town lots are fre- 
 quently leased for a long time for the purpose 
 of being built upon, and both parties derive 
 advantage from it — the party owning the land 
 being able to lease it, and to receive a remun- 
 erative rent for a long period of time, and the 
 lessee being able to get it at a rate wliich will 
 justify his putting improvements upon it. 
 There are many instances where it is actually 
 necessary, in order that the parties may 
 receive an adequate benefit, that they should 
 have the right of leasing for a considerable 
 length of time. 
 
 The amendment makes the section apply to 
 all lands. The objection to a restriction to 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, July 28. 
 
 163 
 
 agricultural lands is not so great as to other 
 lands. Such a provision has been introduced 
 into the Constitution of Wisconsin. It was 
 thought a great innovation to introduce it there. 
 
 I do not see the particular object of intro- 
 ducing this into the Bill of Rights at all. 
 Bather than protecting men in their rights, it 
 restricts them in the enjojinent of them. As 
 to the extent of the application of this right 
 to the disposal of property, I would say that 
 the "Lock and Canal Company " of Lowell, 
 Massachusetts, being the owner of the whole 
 water power at that place, leased out water 
 rights and land right s for the period of nine 
 hundred and ninety nine years, so that the 
 whole power might be used. Those water 
 rights are now held under those leases, and it 
 would not have been possible to divide that 
 power in any other way. The same disposi- 
 tion may be made of the water power at St. 
 Anthony Falls. There are two companies 
 upon both sides of the river which own the 
 whole power, and they hope to lease it out to 
 permanent occupants for long terms, who will 
 thereby be justified in putting permanent 
 buildings upon it. A restiiction of tliis kind 
 would interfere very materially with the 
 rights of property in a great many instances. 
 There are leases in this City of St. Paul for 
 a much longer period than fifteen years. A 
 large portion of the territory of the cities of 
 Baltimore and Philadelphia are held under 
 long leases, and thereby the poor man, by 
 paying a nominal ground rent, is enabled to 
 erect a dwelling for himself, and then if he 
 desires to sell it he seUs his lease. 
 
 The question was then taken, and the 
 amendment was not concurred in. 
 
 Ninth Amendment. — Section sixteenth, add 
 thereto the words "except in cases of fraud" so 
 that it shall read: 
 
 "No person shall be imprisoned for debt arising 
 out or founded upon any contract expressed or 
 implied, unless in cases of fraud." 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 
 Tenth Amendment. — Section seventeen, after the 
 word "wholesome" insert the word "exemption" 
 and strike out all after the word "laws" so that the 
 section shall read : 
 
 " The right of the debtor to enjoy the necessary 
 comforts of life shall be recognized by wholesome 
 exemption laws." 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH called for a division of the 
 question, first on inserting, and then upon 
 striking out. 
 
 The question was taken upon each portion 
 of the amendment separately, and they were 
 severally concurred in. 
 
 Eleventh Amendment. — Section eighteen, after 
 the word "ajy" insert the words "religious or 
 " ecclesiastical," so that that clause of the section 
 shall read : 
 
 " The right of every man to worship God ac- 
 cording to the dictates of his own conscience shall 
 never be infringed ; nor shall any man be com- 
 pelled to attend, erect or support any place of wor- 
 ship, or to maintain any religious or ecclesiastical 
 ministry against his consent." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I would state to the Con- 
 vention that the reason why I offered that 
 amendment was, because the word " minis- 
 try" is a general term, and originally meant 
 " servant," and it is frequently used in that 
 sense now. We have the ministry, for in- 
 stance, of instruction. The intention was 
 to provide against the compulsory attendance 
 or support of any reli^ous ministry. 
 
 The amendment was concurred in.- 
 
 Twelfth Amendment. — Strike out all of section 
 twenty-four, and insert the following : 
 
 " Dueling is an evil and shall never be allowed 
 in this State." 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I move to strike out of the 
 substitute the words " dueling is an evil." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I now submit to the Con- 
 vention whether it is not advisable to strike 
 out the rest of the substitute. It strikes me 
 that we have so reduced the section that it 
 soimds quite flat, and I hope it will all be left 
 out. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I am opposed to the 
 amendment as it now stands, or as it stood 
 before amended. I would not consent to have 
 any provision in regard to dueling in the Con- 
 stitution, except as a disqualification for of- 
 fice. I do not know why we should pick out 
 any particular crime, and say that it shall not 
 exist in this State. We might as well say 
 that the crime of miwder, manslaughter, or 
 larceny shall not exist in this State. But I 
 think it would be proper to say that dueling 
 should be a disqualification for office. I 
 should be in favor of that and that only. 
 Consequently I am in favor of the section as 
 it originally stood, before it was amended by 
 the committee. 
 
 The amendment was then non-concurred 
 in. 
 
XH 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, July 28. 
 
 Thirteenth Amendment. — Strike out all of sec- 
 tion twenty -five which is as follows : 
 
 "The criminal code shall be founded on prin- 
 ciples of reformation and not of vindictive jus- 
 tice." 
 
 The amendment was not concurred in. 
 '• Fourteenth Amendment. — Insert the following 
 additional section : 
 
 Sec. — The enumeration of the foregoing rights 
 shall not be construed to impair or deny any others 
 retained by the people." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I think the language of 
 that section should be slightly altered. I do 
 not understand that the people are giving up 
 any rights by declaring this Bill of Rights. 
 The word '' retain" was the word used in the 
 Constitution of the United States where the 
 States did give up to the general government 
 certain rights, and that word would be proper 
 in case the people were giving up, by this bill, 
 certain of their rights. I move to amend by 
 striking out the word " retain" and ipsert the 
 word " possessed." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I hope the amendment 
 recommended by the committee will not be 
 concurred in. It seems to me mere surplus- 
 sage, having no force whatever. The section 
 was taken from the Constitution of the United 
 States, which was adopted under different 
 circumstances from ours. There the people 
 did give up certain rights to the general gov- 
 ernment. But the section has no application 
 to our case, and it has never been inserted in 
 the Constitution of any State. We retain all 
 the rights we had before, and the Bill of 
 Rights is merely a guarantee to us of those 
 rights. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. It seems to me that the 
 section is all right as it now stands. The ob- 
 ject is to give a portion of the people's rights 
 to the oflBcers of the government, and to re- 
 tain a portion. It strikes me that the word 
 *' retain" is a better word than " possess," 
 and we certainly have some rights which we 
 have not delegated to anybody, and which we 
 vill not delate. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I do not understand tliat 
 in this bill we delegate any of our rights to 
 any person or body. We merely enunciate 
 certain of the principal rights that we possess 
 and we do not wish to have it understood by 
 that enunciation, because we do not happen 
 to mention certain other."?, that we have not 
 got them. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. We do not delegate them 
 in the Bill of Rights, but we do in the Con- 
 stitution before we get through. 
 
 Tlie amendment to the section was not 
 agreed to. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I now hope the additional 
 section will not be agreed to. It seems to me 
 to be entirely unnecessary, to be meaningless, 
 and that it can have no real force. In fact it 
 amounts to nothing. In the Bill of Rights 
 we simply set forth certain rights, but we do 
 not propose to take any rights from anybody, 
 and to say that the setting forth any rights 
 we do not impair any rights we retain, is sur- 
 plusage and can have no effect in any man- 
 ner. I do not think we should encumber our 
 Bill of Rights with anj^thing which does not 
 have a direct, plain, and tangible meaning. 
 
 The amendment was not concurred in. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I now move to insert tho 
 following additional section : 
 
 " Sec. — Married women shall have the right to; 
 hold and convey real and personal property in 
 their own right and separately from their hus- 
 bands". 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move to amend that 
 amendment, by adding thereto the words 
 "and to contract on their own behalf." 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I accept the amendment. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS, To contract what? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Any and every thing 
 they please. My object is to put women 
 upon the same footing witht men in regard to 
 doing business, so that she may enter into, 
 business upon her own account, buy and sell, 
 and enter into contracts of aU kinds in the same 
 way and manner that a man does. I think 
 there is a Constitutional provision like this 
 in tlie Constitution of CaUfo3,Tia, and I would 
 like to see it adopted here. If women are to. 
 hold property in their own names, they should 
 have the right to use that property so as to 
 increase it. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. The gentleman would do. 
 well to mention also, that we leam by the 
 last accounts from California, that that pro- 
 vision has been found to operate so badly, 
 that the people desire to repeal it. I am in 
 favor of doing something for widows too, 
 (laughter) and for the whole female sex, but 
 it may be objected that it would be infring- 
 ing upon the business of the Legislature. I 
 wish to do as much for women a."! possible, 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, July 28. 
 
 165 
 
 but not in violation of the laws. (Laugh- 
 ter.) 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Then I hope it is a joke 
 all thi-ough. Tliis matter of permitting mar- 
 ried women to dispose of their property with- 
 out the consent of their husbands is all wrong. 
 The husband cannot dispose of his real prop- 
 erty \\'ithout the consent of his wife, and now 
 they want us to say that a woman is not only 
 as good as a man for doing business, but that 
 she is his superior. A husband cannot con- 
 vey his real estate and deprive his w=ife of her 
 dower, but you would allow a woman to con- 
 vey her real estate and leave the husband no 
 right in it whatever. It is aU wrong. A 
 woman does not understand any thing about 
 buying and bartering real estate. I hope we 
 shall be serious about this matter or else 
 make it a joke out and out. 
 
 Mr, MANTOR. Like the gentleman from 
 Winona, I really imagined that when that 
 amendment was offered, it was a mere mat- 
 ter of joke, and that nobody was serious 
 about it. But it proves not to be a matter of 
 joke. I am convinced that if Astoixette L. 
 Brown-, LrcY Stone, and Abbey Kelley 
 should hear of the adoption of this section, 
 they would send up to this Convention a let- 
 ter of congratulation. It seems to me a pre- 
 posterous idea, although in this day of new 
 fangled notions it is not to be wondered at 
 that we should attempt to give to a certain 
 portion of the fair sex the right to hold prop- 
 erty in their own names, and to convey it 
 without the consent of their husbands. If 
 this appendage is to be added to our Bill of 
 Eights, I should be in favor of amending it so 
 as to do something for the widows. But the 
 whole matter seems to me to be absurd and 
 ridiculous in the extreme. I should like to 
 see the matter disposed of in all seriousness. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. In offeiing that section in 
 the form in which I did, I intended no joke. 
 I meant to be as serious as the gentlemen who 
 have spoken upon the subject, and I meant it 
 to the fullest extent gentlemen have construed 
 it — that married wonaen should have the right 
 not only to hold personal and real property 
 in their own right, but to have the right to 
 convey it independently and freely without 
 any control whatever upon the part of their 
 husbands. Now it may be that that is going 
 too far, and that the hu.^band should have 
 
 the right of dower, or something equivalent 
 to it. But in the state of facts which exist it 
 is rare for a maiTied woman to hold any prop- 
 erty at all. She seldom holds property in 
 her own right except in cases in which it is 
 important that she should have the complete 
 and unrestricted control of it. How often do 
 we see cases where the friends of a woman, 
 having a dissipated husband, are disposed to 
 do something for her and her children — are 
 anxious to give her property if it could be 
 placed beyond the control of her husband — 
 but are prevented from doing it on account 
 of liis dissipated habits. There may indeed 
 be a few cases where this provision would 
 work an inconvenience and wi'ong to the hus- 
 band, but there are a multitude of cases 
 where the restraint upon a woman's convey- 
 ing without the consent of her husband, does 
 work great inconvenience and wrong. I think 
 that for answering the ends of justice, and 
 subserving the object for which that provis- 
 ion is offered, it Ls now in just the right shape, 
 but if any one wishes to change it so as to 
 give the husband the right to dower in his 
 wife's real estate, I shall have no objection. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I was equally in earnest 
 in proposing the amendment I did ; for while 
 I hold that it is proper and right that married 
 women should hold property in their own 
 names, whether it is acquired by their own 
 labor, or bestowed upon them as a gift, or 
 inherited, I at the same time beheve that wo- 
 men should have the right to use their property 
 to the best advantage, so that they may in- 
 crease it, so that if it is a benefit to her in its 
 original state, it will be increased by this 
 privilege. 
 
 Gentlemen have stated that if this provis- 
 ion is adopted, they should be obliged to 
 move an additional section in favor of wid- 
 ows. I take it that there is no gentieman 
 here who does not know that unmarried 
 women have the right to hold property and to 
 buy and sell, and carry on business. It is 
 not necessary that a person should be a male 
 in order to hold property and do business. 
 But it is necessary that there should be some 
 provision in regard to married women, to give 
 them the same rights that single women have. 
 I therefore hope the amendment offered by 
 the gentleman from Rice county will pass. 
 
 The gentleman from Winona [Mr. WilsoxJ 
 
166 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, July 29. 
 
 complains that the husband cannot sell his 
 real estate without the joining of the wife, so 
 as to cut off her right of dower. The gen- 
 tleman from Winona will admit that the wife 
 cannot sell her real estate without the joining 
 of her husband so as to cut off his right by 
 courtesy, which is given by the same code of 
 laws wliich gives the right of dower to the 
 wife. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. It seems to me that this 
 is going a little too far. As th« law now is 
 the wife has the right of dower in her hus- 
 band's real estate, and the husband cannot 
 cut it off by a conveyance during his life time, 
 nor by devise. As an offset to that tlie hus- 
 band has always had the right to courtesy in 
 the wife's real estate, — that is, when the wife 
 dies and leaves real estate the husband has 
 the right of using that real estate during his 
 life time, and he is called tenant by courtesy. 
 Now what is proposed by this section is, not 
 only to allow the wife to take and hold her 
 right of dower to the full extent, but to cut 
 off the husband's right to courtesy by allow- 
 ing her to convey without the husband's con- 
 sent; or to devise so that after her death h« 
 can have no interest in her real estate. It 
 seems to me that that is going further than is 
 required of us. I am perfectly willing to 
 protect a married woman's property to a rea- 
 sonable extent, but no further. I tliink this 
 section goes too far. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I have no idea that we can 
 get through with this amendment this even- 
 ing, and therefore I move that the Convention 
 adjourn. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and thereupon 
 the Convention, (at five o'clock and fifteen 
 minutes) adjourned. 
 
 FIFTEENTH DAY. 
 
 Wednesday, July 29, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. m. 
 Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. E. D. Neill. 
 
 KEPORTS OF COMMITTEES. 
 
 Mr. RUSSELL, from the committee to 
 whom was referred that part of the Consti- 
 tution which relates to County and Township 
 organization, made the following report, which 
 was read a first and second time and laid on 
 the table to be printed, viz : 
 
 CO UXTY organizations — ARTICLE. 
 Section 1. Each organized county shall be a 
 body corporate, with such powers and immunities 
 as shall be established by law. All suits or pro- 
 ceedings by or against a county shall be in the 
 name thereof. 
 
 Sec. 2. No new county shall be formed or es- 
 tablished by the Legislature of less area than four 
 hundred square miles, nor shall any organized 
 county be divided, or have any part stricken there- 
 from, without submitting the question to a vote of 
 the electors of the county or counties to be directly 
 affected or dismembered, and unless a majority of 
 all the votes cast shall be in favor of the same. 
 
 Sec. 3. No county seat shall be removed until 
 the point to which it is proposed to be removed 
 shall be designated by two-thirds of the Board of 
 Supervisors of the county, and a majority of the 
 electors of the county voting thereon shall have 
 voted in favor of the removal of the county seat 
 to the proposed location in such manner as shall be 
 prescribed bj' law. 
 
 Sec. 4. The Legislature may organize any city 
 into a separate county when it has attained a pop^ 
 ulation of twenty thousand inhabitants, without 
 reference to geographical extent, when a majority 
 of the electors of a county in which such city may 
 be situated, voting thereon shall be in favor of a 
 separate organization. Cities shall have such rep- 
 resentation in the Board of Supervisors of the 
 counties in which they are situated as the Legisla- 
 ture n;ay direct. 
 
 Sec. 5. A board of supervisors, consisting of 
 one from each organized township, shall be es- 
 tablished in each county with such powers as shall 
 be prescribed by law. 
 
 Sec. 6. The board of supervisors of any county 
 shall have the exclusive power to prescribe and 
 fix the compensation for all services rendered for, 
 and to adjust all claims against their respective 
 counties. 
 
 Sec. 7. The board of supervisors of each or- 
 ganized county may provide for laying out and con- 
 structing highways and organizing townships, un- 
 der such restrictions and limitations as shall be 
 prescribed by law. 
 
 Sec. 8. The board of supervisors of any county 
 may borrow or raise by tax one thousand dollars 
 for constructing or repairing public buildings and 
 highways ; but no greater sum shall be borrowed 
 or raised by tax for such purpose in any one year, 
 unless authorized by a majority of the electoi's of 
 such county voting thereon, and they shall have 
 such powers of local taxation for public purposes 
 as may be prescribed by law. 
 
 Sec. 9. In each organized county there shall bo 
 a Sheriff, a County Clerk, a County Treasurer, a 
 Register of Deeds, a Prosecuting Attorney, a Su- 
 perintendent of Common Schools, a County Sur- 
 veyor, and a Coroner, chosen by the electors there- 
 of once in two years, and as oftsn as vacancies 
 shall happen, whose powers and duties shall bo 
 
MIXXESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wedxesdat, July 29. 
 
 167 
 
 prescribed by law. The board of Supervisors in 
 any county may unite the oflBces of county clerk 
 and register of deeds in one ofl&ce or disconnect 
 the same. 
 
 Sec. 10. The sberiflF shall hold no other office, 
 and shall be incapable of holding the office of sher- 
 iff longer than four in any period of six years. 
 He may be required by law to renew his security 
 from time to time, and in default of giving such 
 security his office shall be deemed vacant. 
 
 Sec. 11. All county officers may be removed in 
 such manner and for such cause as shall be pre- 
 scribed by law. 
 
 TOWSSHIP OBGAXIZATIOXS. AKTICLE. 
 
 Sectiox 1. Each organized township shall be 
 a body corporate with such powers and immunities 
 as shall be prescribed by law. All suits and pro- 
 ceedings by or against a township shall be in the 
 name thereof. 
 
 Sec. 2. There shall be elected annually in each 
 organized township, one Supervisor, one Township 
 Clerk, three Commissioners of Highways, one 
 Township Assessor, one Township Treasurer, three 
 School Commissioners, one Overseer for each 
 Highway District, not exceeding four Constables, 
 whose powers and duties shall be prescribed by 
 law. 
 
 Sec. 8. Justices of the peace and Township 
 officers may be removed in such manner and for 
 such cause as shall be prescribed by law. 
 
 Mr. BALDWIN, from the committee to 
 whom was referred the report of the Consti- 
 tution relating to Educational Institutions and 
 Interests, made the following report : 
 
 Sectiox 1. The superintendent of public in- 
 struction shall have the general supervision of 
 public instruction and his duties shall be prescribed 
 .- law. 
 
 Sec. 2. The proceeds of all lands that have 
 been or that may hereafter be granted by the 
 United States for the support of schools, which 
 may be sold or disposed of, and all estates of de- 
 ceased persons who may have died without leav- 
 ing a will or heir, shall be and remain a perpetual 
 fund, the interest of which, together with all the 
 rfents of the unsold lands, and such other means 
 as the Legislature shall provide shall be exclu- 
 sively applied to the following objects, viz : 
 
 First. — The support and maintenance of com- 
 mon schools in each school district and the pur- 
 chase of suitable libraries and apparatus therefor. 
 Second. — The residue shall be appropriated to 
 the support and maintenance of academies and 
 normal schools and suitable libraries therefor. 
 
 Sec. 3. The Legislature shall, within five years 
 firom the adoption of this Constitution, provide for 
 and establish a system of common schools, w^hich 
 shall be as nearly uniform as practicable, whereby 
 B school shall be kept without charg* for tuition, 
 at least three months in each year, in every School 
 District in the State, and all instructions in said 
 
 schools shall be in the English language, and no 
 sectarian instruction shall be allowed therein. 
 
 Sec 4. Provision shall be made by law for the 
 distribution of the income of the school fimd 
 among the several towns and cities of the State for 
 the support of common schools therein, in some 
 just proportion to the number of children and 
 youth resident therein, between the ages of four 
 and twenty years, and no appropriation shall be 
 made from the school fund to any school district 
 for the year in which a school shall not be main- 
 tained at least three months. 
 
 Sec. 5. The Legislature shall provide for the 
 establishment of a library in each school district^ 
 and all fines assessed and collected in the several 
 counties and townships, for any breach of the penal 
 laws shall be exclusively applied to the support of 
 such libraries. 
 
 Sec 6. There shall be elected in each judicial 
 circuit at the time of the election of the judge of 
 such circuit, a regent of the university, whose 
 term of office shall be the same as that of such judge 
 The regents thus elected shall constitute the board 
 of regents of the university of Minnesota. 
 
 Sec 7. The regents of the university and their 
 successors in office shall continue to constitute the 
 body corporate, known by the name and title of 
 " The Regents of the University of Minnesota." 
 They shall have the general supervision of the 
 university, and the direction and control of all 
 expenditures from the university interest fund. 
 
 Sec 8. The Secretary of State, State Treasui:er, 
 and Attorney General, shall constitute a board of 
 commissioners for the sale of the school and uni- 
 versity lands, and for the investment of the funds 
 arising therefrom. Any two of said commissioners 
 shall be a quorum for the transaction of all busi- 
 ness pertaining to the duties of their office. 
 
 Sec. 9. Provision shall be made by law for the 
 sale of all school and university lands, after they 
 shall have been appraised, and that notice that such 
 sale will take place shall in all cases be given at 
 least three months prior thereto, by publication in 
 the newspapers, and by posters placed in conspicu- 
 ous places in the county in which such lands are sit- 
 uated. Xo sale shall take effect unless at least one- 
 fourth of the purchase money be paid at the time of 
 the sale, and when such lands shall be sold, and a 
 portion of the purchase money shall not be paid at 
 the time of the sale, the Commissioners shall take 
 security by mortgage upon the land sold, for the 
 sum remaining unpaid, with twelve per cent 
 interest thereon, payable annually at the office of 
 the Treasurer, except on timbered lands, which 
 may be depreciated in value, for which the com- 
 missioners shall require such additional security 
 as shall by them be deemed amply sufficient fof 
 ensure the purchase of the payment money upon 
 such lands remaining unpaid. The commissioners 
 shall be authorized to execute a good and sufficient 
 conveyance to all purchasers of such lands, and to 
 discharge any mortgage taken as security wh«6 
 
168 
 
 MINNESOTA C0NVI:NTI0N DEBATES— Wednesday, July 29. 
 
 the sum due thereon shall be paid. The commis- 
 sioners shall have power to withhold from sale any 
 portion of such land when they shall deem it 
 expedient) and shall invest moneys arising from 
 the sale of such lands, as well as university and 
 school funds, in such manner as the Legislature 
 shall provide, and shall give such security for the 
 faithful performance of their duties as may be 
 required by law. 
 
 Sec. 10. The board of supervisors in each 
 bounty shall constitute a board of appraisers, 
 whose duty it shall be, within three months previ- 
 ous to the time any school or university lands in 
 their respective counties are offered for sale, to fix 
 the valuation thereof, and in no case shall any 
 portion of such lands be sold for less than the 
 appraised value. 
 
 Sec. 11. Institutions for the benefit of those 
 inhabitants who are deaf, dumb, blind or insane, 
 shall always be fostered and sustained. 
 
 Sec. 12. The Legislature shall encourage the 
 promotion ofintellectual,scientific, and agricultural 
 improvements, and shall, as soon as practicable, 
 provide for the establishment of an agricultural 
 school. The Legislature may appropriate all salt 
 springs, with the six sections of land adjoining or 
 contiguous thereto, to which the State, on admis- 
 sion into the Union shall be entitled according to 
 the provisions of the Act of Congress, entitled 
 " An Act to authorize the people of Minnesota to 
 " form a Constitution and State Government pre- 
 "paratory to their admission into the Union on an 
 "equal footing with the original States," and any 
 land which may hereafter be granted or appropria- 
 ted for suth purpose, for the support and main- 
 tenance of such school, and may make the same a 
 branch of the luiiversity for instruction in agri- 
 culture and the patural sciences connected there- 
 with, and place the same under the supervision of 
 the regents of the university. 
 
 The report was read a first and second 
 time, and laid on the table to be printed ^ 
 
 Under the order of business, the following 
 resolution was taken from the table and con- 
 sidered, viz : 
 
 "Bfgohed, That the object of a Constitution is 
 to organize a government prescribing the nature 
 and extent of the powers of the several depart- 
 ments thereof, and that to engraft any legislative 
 enactments therein would be anti-Republican. 
 Further that a Hill of Rights should only be decla- 
 ratory of fundamental piinciples." 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. That resolution contains 
 but a simple declaration of sentiment. It 
 may be all very well. I presilme nobody 
 disputes its main proposition, but really, it 
 seems hardly worth while to put such a de- 
 claration upon our journals. Every body 
 concedes that we ought not to have a code of 
 
 laws in our Constitution, and the only point 
 of difference between any of us, would be as 
 to what constitutes legislation, and what wcro 
 abstract fundamental principles. One mem- 
 ber thinks we should lay down certain points 
 in the Constitution which are necessary to 
 guide legislation, and he would make them 
 full and explicit. Another member thinks 
 differently. Now pass that resolution and 
 the same thing will be still constantly occur- 
 ring. It can do no good. I am opposed to 
 affirming a mere truism. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Should we make a com- 
 plete code of laws in our Constitution, I 
 would inquire if that VA'Ould necessarily make 
 it anti-Republican in its fonn ? I do not ex- 
 actly see the truth asserted in that resolution, 
 and therefore shall vote against it. 
 
 Mr. RUSSELL moved that the resolution 
 be laid upon the table. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 PKEAMBLE AND BILL OP EIGHTS. 
 
 The Convention next proceeded imder the 
 order of business, to the consideration of the 
 report of the committee upon the Preamble 
 and Bill of Rights. 
 
 The first question was upon the amendment 
 offered yesterday, as follows : 
 
 " Sec. — ^ Married women shall have the right 
 to hold and convey real and personal property in 
 their own right separately from their husbands, 
 and to contract on their own behalf." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I offer the followmg sub- 
 stitute for that section : 
 
 " The common law disability of married womer 
 to hold, enjoy, and convey real property, and to 
 contract on their own behalf shall not exist in this 
 State." 
 
 I wish to make a few remarks upon this 
 subject, in addition to what I said yesterday. 
 
 It was intimated in Convention at that 
 time, that the amendment offered by the gen- 
 tleman from Rice county, [Mr. North] was 
 offered as a joko^ and that there was nothing 
 serious about it. That intimation has since 
 been repeated in connection with members of 
 the Convention. Now I have to say so far as 
 I am concerned, I attempted no joke in this 
 matter. I prefer the substitute I have offered, 
 and I believe it is acceptable to the gentleman 
 from Rice county. It conveys the same 
 meaning he intended to have conveyed in the 
 original. The common law prohibits married 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wedkesdat, July 29. 
 
 169 
 
 women from holding, in their own names, 
 real and personal property : disposing of it, 
 and entering into contracts upon their ovra 
 behalf. It does not prohibit single women, 
 either maidens or widows, from the exercise 
 of those rights. For one, I do not beUeve it 
 is right, just, or equitable, that when a wo- 
 man contracts marriage, she shall lose the 
 rights she possessed before. It throws a 
 barrier in the way of marriage. It also offers 
 an inducement to those who are in the bonds 
 of mati'imony to get out in some way. 
 
 Objections were made to the amendment 
 proposed yesterday, on the ground that it 
 gave an advantage to married women over 
 married men. Although I do not so under- 
 stand the amendment, yet the substitute is 
 offered to obviate that difficulty. It was sta- 
 ted in the com-se of the argument yesterday, 
 that a married man had, under the principles 
 of the common law, a right by courtesy to the 
 estate of his wife after her death, in certain 
 circimastances ; also, that a married woman 
 possessed a similar right to dower in the 
 estate of her husband, and that the amend- 
 ment offered by the gentleman from Rice 
 county proposed to take away that right from 
 the husband, and still retain it for the wife. 
 Now under the workings of the substitute I 
 have offered, there can be no such objection 
 as that. If I understand the principles of 
 law correctly, it would leave the husband and 
 wife upon an equal footing in regard to the 
 whole thing of having property and making 
 contracts. K the husband shoiild convey 
 his property without the signature of the 
 wife, her right of dower would remain unim- 
 paired, and if the wife should convey her 
 property without the signature of her hus- ^ 
 band, his right to courtesy would remain imim- 
 paired. 
 
 "We have already adopted in our Bill of 
 Rights, a provision in contravention of the 
 principles of the common law upon this sub- 
 ject. We have provided that no distinction 
 diall be made in this State between resident 
 Idiens and citizens, in regard to the holding 
 or conveying of property. And it is equally 
 proper that we should contravene the provis- 
 ions of the common law in this case, if we 
 deem such a provision just and equitable. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. One question as to the 
 bearing of that amendment. Am I to under- 
 22 
 
 stand that in case an'amendment of tliis kind 
 is adopted, the wife would have" the^right to 
 convey her real estate without the consent, 
 or participation, in anyj manner of her hus- 
 band ? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I understand fthelwife 
 to have the same right to convey her property 
 without the consent of her husband, that the 
 husband has to convey without the consent 
 of the wife. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I understand that now, by 
 the common law, a husband has an interest 
 in the ^wife's real estate after her death. Is 
 that so? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. That is my understand- 
 ing of it. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. And that would still be 
 reserved if this substitute should be adopted ? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Certamly. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Another question. "Would 
 this substitute authorize the wife to convey 
 absolutely by devise, without any reservation 
 of the husband's rights ? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would sunply say, in 
 answer to the question, that it is my imder- 
 standing, that she would have the same rela- 
 tive right to convey her property, in the same 
 manner that the husband would have. But 
 I am not prepared to give a dissertation upon 
 the principles of the common law to the full- 
 est extent. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. This is a very important 
 matter, and we should be careful to make no 
 mistake; The principle affects the whole 
 social fabric, and if we should adopt anything 
 which is not well matured, it might tend to 
 loosen the bonds which bind society together. 
 Now I am disposed to sustain the rights of 
 woman as woman, and not to ignore her 
 existence and rights to the extent which the 
 old feudal system did, but at the same time 
 I see a disposition abroad in commimity to 
 so far separate the interests of man and wife 
 as to loosen the bonds of the marriage con- 
 tract, and to offer, as it were, an inducement 
 to sever its ties. Of course if you give the 
 man and wife separate and independent inter- 
 ests, that community of thought and ^action 
 which are so desirable in that relation, is to 
 some extent impaired. 
 
 As I said before, I am not a non-progress- 
 ive in this matter, but am in favor of going 
 ahead,— of relieving woman from some of 
 
m 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, July 29. 
 
 the old feudal restraints, and recognizing her 
 in law as being a person having rights of her 
 own, and not as being entirely absorbed in 
 the man who is joined by law to her as hus- 
 band. 
 
 I have had handed to me an amendment 
 which I will read and offer as a substitute for 
 the substitute : 
 
 "All property both real and personal of the 
 wife, owned or claimed by marriage and that ac- 
 quired afterwards by gift, devise or descent, shall 
 be her separate property; and laws shall be passed 
 more clearly defining the rights of the wife, in 
 delation as well to her separate property as that 
 held in common with her husband. Laws shall 
 also be passed providing for the registration of 
 the wife's separate property." 
 
 This substitute is a transcript of the pro- 
 Vision in the Constitution of California. I 
 ' wish to take the sense of the Convention 
 lipon it. 
 
 The question was taken on the substitute 
 to the substitute, and it was agreed to. 
 
 The question then recurred on the substi- 
 tute as amended. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I am opposed to this 
 whole matter — the original and the substitute. 
 
 The original goes to the fullest extent I 
 think it possible to go, and both are legisla- 
 tion, rather than that which should be incor- 
 porated into a Constitution. Both proceed 
 upon the ground that there is danger of the 
 Legislature not only disregarding the rights 
 of married women, but of repealing laws now 
 in force in reference to them. Are not mar- 
 ried women sufficiently protected now ? Can- 
 not they hold their separate property now in 
 the way spoken of in this amendment? 
 •Certainly it is so. Now do we wish here, by 
 innuendo or otherwise, to say that the Minne- 
 sota Legislature is likely to disregard the 
 rights of maiTied women ? Is it necessary to 
 insert into the Constitution special legislation 
 upon this head more than upon any other ? 
 I think not. We are inclined to go too far 
 upon this subject. We ought not to legislate 
 in our Constitution upon any subject, and 
 certainly not upon this. This is a subject 
 upon which the Legislature itself is inclined 
 to go full far enough. I will go as far as he 
 who goes farthest in guaranteeing to woman 
 ■all the rights she should havc^ But I do 
 protest against putting a woman upon an 
 xtquaUty with man in a business point of view. 
 
 These out-door transactions are not her busi- 
 ness. If she has any property before mar- 
 riage, or if she acquires any after marriage, I 
 am willing that she should hold it in such a 
 mamier that her husband cannot deprive her 
 of it without her own volunttiry consent ; but 
 I do not wish to say here, by implication or 
 otherwise, that a woman is fitted, or ought to 
 be fitted, for doing business generally. As 
 soon as you place woman in that sphere you 
 deprive her of all true womanhood. Her 
 next step would be to the ballot box. If we 
 go to this extent we may be justly called 
 "women's 'rights men." I protest against 
 saying directly or indirectly, that a Minnesota 
 Legislature needs to be bound to do justice 
 to women as such. They need no such obli- 
 gations. Our laws are ample, and yet this 
 says that other laws shall be passed. Why 
 this sen&itiveness ? There are some points 
 upon which men become sensitive, and which 
 they consider the " all in all " of legislation. 
 The Legislatures which have recently enacted 
 laws upon this subject, have come up to all 
 that women want. I teU you it is not the 
 women that call for such provisions as this, 
 but the men, and not a majority of them 
 either. I hope the Convention wiU place a 
 quietus upon this matter, and allow it to be 
 carried no further. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. It is a little amusing to sec 
 how people are terrified for fear there may be 
 a little item of fanaticism worked into the 
 Constitution we are framing. It is amusing 
 to see them frightened when they are so far 
 from danger, and to see them work themselves 
 up to a fever heat for fear the world is going 
 to make some great revolution, and turn 
 things topsy-turvy, which have stood upright 
 for so many years, and that our opponents 
 will call us fanatics. I confess I have no 
 such fear. I believe tliat tliis age is wiser 
 than the preceding one. I believe that the 
 people of our day know more than people did 
 in the dark ages, and feudal times. I believe 
 they are capable of making wiser laws and 
 institutions than were made then, and when 
 they advance upon sound, correct, and philo- 
 sophical principles, I tliink it is nonsense to 
 be frightened for fear we shall make some 
 hnprovemcnt, and |for fear tlie old fogies of 
 the present day will call it fanaticism. 
 
 A provision of this kind is found in the 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wedsesdat, July 29. 
 
 171 
 
 Constihition of California, and it has been 
 incorporated into the laws of several other 
 States. New York long since came up to 
 tliat standard ; and other States have been 
 progressing towards it from year to year. 
 This idea that we are going to abolish all that 
 is good and old, and substitute something in 
 its place, is simply ridiculous. I want to 
 know if married women ought not to have 
 some rights ? If they ought to be completely 
 under the control of their husbands, in all 
 respects, and under all circumstances ? If a 
 woman before marriage has in her own right 
 a large estate, is it just and reasonable or 
 philosophical, that her husband, though he 
 be an imbruted, degraded being, should take 
 the entire control of it ; or is it right that i 
 she should have the control of what was ! 
 her own, and forever should be her own ? 
 If he has property, no matter how much 
 more capable she might be to manage it, gentle- 
 men would not advocate her control of it 
 because she was much the more capable. 
 Not at all, for it was his right. Now if a 
 woman has property in her own right, why 
 should she not be permitted to control, enjoy 
 and protect it for her children ? Or shall we 
 insist, for fear of being called fanatical upon 
 this subject, that the husband should be per^ 
 mitted under all circumstances, to use and 
 squander that property? It seems to me 
 that some safeguard should be thrown around 
 the family circle ; that children and women 
 have rights which ought to be protected, and 
 that our Constitution should afford that pro- 
 tection, in the same way that wise and 
 experienced heads have thrown protection 
 around that class in other States. With the 
 history of the past upon this subject, and the 
 example of other States before us, for us to 
 wake up and begin to cry " fanaticism " for 
 doing things which were deemed prudent and 
 "Rise twenty years ago by the very best men 
 of this country, is a little amusing indeed. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I am sorry that he, who 
 above all others seeks the insertion of this 
 clause, should not represent it to the full ex- 
 tent to which it goes. But he does not. Who 
 here says a word against permitting a woman 
 to hold property in her own name ? Do I ? 
 Does any one ? And is that the full extent 
 to which the section goes ? Not at all. It 
 goes far beyond that in its eflfects. I did not 
 
 say that I was opposed to this because it was 
 new. Nor do I wish to adopt the old com- 
 mon law rule that a married woman shall not 
 hold property in her own name and right. 
 That is not my position. I am willing that 
 she should hold all her own property in her 
 own name and right, and that she shall not 
 be deprived of it, unless by her voluntary 
 act. Such a provision now stands upon our 
 statute book, and there is no probability of 
 its being repealed. Now when should we 
 guard our Legislature and put checks upon 
 it ? In my opinion, when that Legislature is 
 likely to be turned aside from the path of duty, 
 by some influence which can be brought to 
 bear upon them. For instance, suppose we 
 have corporations in our Territory of im- 
 mense wealth. They may make an attack 
 upon the integrity of the Legislature and in- 
 duce them to make laws more favorable to 
 such corporations than they should be. Then 
 guard well your Legislature. But when we 
 come to a matter of cool legislation where no 
 money influence is brought to bear, where no 
 local influence have any weight, why will not 
 our Le^slature be likely to pass laws as fa- 
 vorable to the rights of women, and the rights 
 of humanity, as they ought to have ? Why 
 not ? Is there to be any pecuniary influence 
 brought to bear upon them to prevent them 
 jfrom doing right in the premises ? I think 
 not. Therefore we have no right to surround 
 them with any provision of this sort which 
 will prevent them from legislating as they 
 think proper. A Constitutional enactment 
 is something which will be permanent, while 
 a l^slative enactment may be changed when 
 it is seen that it can be made better. Now if 
 there is no danger of any wrong influences 
 being brought to bear upon the Legislature, 
 why tie their hands by such a provision as 
 this ? They come here yearly, instructed by 
 by the people, and it is not probable that they 
 will know the wishes of the people for the fu- 
 ture, better than we can ? Our laws, upon 
 this subject, are now right, and they go as far 
 as women generally wish them to go, so far 
 as I know. There may be a few exceptions, 
 and I say now that those women who are the 
 exceptions are not those whom their sex will 
 take for their type. They are women who 
 are pointed out and shunned. 
 I care not for the &ct that there is such ai 
 
172 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, Jult 29. 
 
 provision in the Constitution of the State of 
 CaUfomia. Let me tell you that California 
 was a State that needed such a provision, 
 while Minnesota does not need it. California 
 is an exception to almost all rules. They had 
 no such laws upon their statute book as we 
 have. Men and women went there together 
 and men, upright and honest at home, became 
 there dissipated, reckless, gamblers and all 
 such things. Theirs was a sort of transition 
 state. They perhaps needed such a provision. 
 We, on the contrary, are a sober, temperate, 
 and honest people usually. Our legislation 
 upon this subject has always been liberal. 
 Why then throw a check aroimd them and 
 compel them to pass laws upon a subject upon 
 which there are ample laws already ? If the 
 gentleman insists upon his amendment let 
 him first show that our laws are not amply 
 liberal upon the subject, or that there is dan- 
 ger that the Legislature will repeal those laws ; 
 and further that his amendment only asks 
 that married women may hold property in 
 their own right. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. According to the princi- 
 ples of the common law there are certain dis- 
 abilities imposed upon married women in re- 
 lation to the holding and disposing of property, 
 and the making of contracts. Those disabili- 
 ties have been sanctioned for centuries and 
 have been approved by a vast amount of 
 learning. And now gentlemen propose to 
 brush away all the experience and learning 
 of centuries past. They go further, and say 
 that this new rule is not to be introduced as 
 an experiment, to see whether it will work 
 well, notwithstanding it is in opposition to the 
 lore of centuries. The old rule is to be swept 
 away perpetually. We are to revolutionize 
 the whole law on that subject at once. We 
 are to incorporate this new principle into our 
 Constitution and recognize it as one of the fun- 
 damental principles which underlie the Consti- 
 tution. Because we hesitate to go to that length 
 at once, before the experiment has been fully 
 tested, before it has been ascertained whether 
 that is the best principle or not, gentlemen 
 are inclined to denounce us as old fogies. It 
 does not seem to me that the charge is just, 
 or that a revolution so radical ought to take 
 place at once, or that we ought to take the 
 responsibility of putting such a clause in our 
 Constitution until the principle has been more 
 
 thoroughly tested than it has been. To say 
 the least, we should leave it for the present 
 with the Legislature. If the people demand 
 that further-protection shall be thrown around 
 married women, the Legislature vrill comply 
 with that requisition. With them then I 
 would leave the matter entirely. It was one 
 of the principles of the conmion law that 
 there should be a perfect union between man 
 and wife, and in order to establish that union, 
 these disabilities were imposed upon the wife. 
 Now it seems to me, as suggested by a gen- 
 tleman upon the other side, that to incorpo- 
 rate this provision into our Constitution and 
 declare it to be a fundamental principle, would 
 be to loosen the bonds of the married re- 
 lation. I hope the Convention will not see 
 fit to go the length which some gentlemen 
 desire. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I do not want to spend 
 much time in discussing this question, but it 
 is an important one, and it becomes us to 
 look at it calmly and rationally. If the gen- 
 tleman's argument is sound, that it is well 
 enough to leave this matter with the Legisla- 
 ture, and confide in their judgment for right 
 legislation, I ask why it is not equally sound 
 and rational to leave qther points, upon which 
 we are now framing a Constitution, to the ac- 
 tion of the Legislature also ? Are our rights 
 as men, so much more imperiled than those 
 of women ; are we so much more weak and 
 defenseless, that we need Constitutional pro- 
 tection for ourselves, while they need none ? 
 If that is not the reason, what is the reason 
 that married women shall not have constitu- 
 tional protection to their rights, as well as 
 men in theirs ? For myself I confess I am 
 so obtuse that I cannot see why men should 
 have such protection and women have nothing 
 of the sort. I have always been accustomed 
 to think that law was peculiarly adapted to 
 the protection of the weak. The strong, it is 
 remarked, need no protection. They can take 
 care of themselves, but the weak and de- 
 fenseless need the strongest protection and 
 guarantee of law. 
 
 Mr. KING (interrupting) I rise to a point 
 of order. Rule seventh of this Convention 
 says that no memb«r shall speak more than 
 twice on the same question, nor more than 
 fifteen minutes at any one time without leave 
 of the Convention, nor more tlian once until 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wedxesdat, Jclt 29. 
 
 173 
 
 every member who chooses to speak shall 
 have spoken. The gentleman has spoken twice 
 before on this subject, and he is out of order, 
 imlcss the Convention grant leave to proceed. 
 
 Cries of " leave" " leave." 
 
 Mr. NORTH proceeded. I wish now to 
 refer to, and read the clause of the California 
 Constitution, to ascertain whether there is 
 anything so very ultra in the sentiments em- 
 bodied there. It is as follows : 
 
 " AU property both real and personal of the 
 wife, owned or claimed by marriage, and that ac- 
 quired afterward bj gift, devise, or descent, shall 
 be her separate property; and laws shall be passed 
 more clearly defining the rights of the wife, in re- 
 lation as well to her separate property, as to that 
 held in common with her husband. Laws shall 
 also be passed providing for the registration of the 
 wife's separate property." 
 
 It happens that when the laws now upon 
 our statute book on this subject, were passed 
 by our Territorial Legislature, there were many 
 who were just as much opposed to legislating 
 upon the rights of married women, and as 
 fearful of the fanatical doctrine of guarding 
 the rights of married women at all, as some 
 gentlemen of this Convention are to-day. 
 The idea of woman's rights were sneered at in 
 the same manner, and by the same kind of 
 slurs and innuendos that are sometimes ex- 
 hibited here. But there was good sense 
 enough in that Legislature to pass good and 
 wholesome laws for woman's protection. It 
 was my privilege to advocate them, as I ad- 
 vocate now, the same kind of legislation. I 
 had the opportunity of urging that provision 
 then, and I met with the same kind of oppo- 
 sition that now meets me here. The amend- 
 ment I offered is not of itself legislation, but 
 it imposes upon the Legislature the duty of 
 legislating upon the subject, and more speci- 
 fically defining and guarding the rights there- 
 in emmciated. 
 
 This, seems to me to be one of the most 
 wise, just, and wholesome provisions we can 
 incorporate into our Constitution, and one 
 which should be made as prominent in the 
 fundamental law as any other. As a man I 
 should be ashamed to ask a constitutional pro- 
 tection of my rights, and then turn around 
 and say that women shall be turned away to 
 to trust to haphazard legislation for her pro- 
 tection. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. I understand the ques- 
 
 tion now to be upon the adoption of the sub- 
 stitute as amended. I hope the good sense 
 of the Convention vrill prevent it from being 
 adopted. It never moves me a particle to 
 hear certain gentlemen from certain quarters 
 talk about oldfogyism. It is a thing which I 
 have heard a long time and have got used to 
 it. We ought to act here as sensible men, 
 and undoubtedly we all suppose we are do- 
 ing so, and yet, we may do things which, when 
 published to the world, may show that we 
 are acting a little foolishly. 
 
 My Mend from Rice Coimty (Mr. North) 
 takes the position that aU the opponents to 
 his amendment are opposed to married wo- 
 men holding property at aU. The gentieman 
 must iindoubtedly know, if he considers for 
 a moment, that that is not the position taken 
 by the gentieman fi-om Winona, nor is it the 
 position taken by myself. I am in favor of 
 married women having every right that a wise 
 legislation may deem it proper to give them. 
 But I am not in favor of placing this provis- 
 ion into the Constitution, nor would I be in 
 favor of engrafting it into a law, were I a 
 legislator, nor do I think the gentieman him- 
 self would, if he looks at the language care- 
 fully. How does it read? "AU property, 
 " both real and personal, of a wife, owjied or 
 " claimed by marriage, <fec." Now what prop- 
 erty does a wife claim or ovni by marriage ? 
 I suppose the gentleman meant to say before 
 marriage. I would like the gentleman to tell 
 me what property the wife becomes possessed 
 of by marriage, real or personal ? It may be 
 that I am too old a fogy to see it, but I must 
 confess my inability. Had it said property 
 owned by her before marriage, I should have 
 understood it. The balance of the substi- 
 tute is as follows : 
 
 " And that afterwards acquired by gift, devise or 
 descent, shall be her separate property ; and laws 
 shall be passed more clearly defining the rights of 
 the wife, in relation as well to her separate prop- 
 erty, asto that held in common with her husband. 
 Laws shall also be passed providing for the regis- 
 tration of the wife's separate property." 
 
 Now the objection I take to that is, that I 
 do not think that anything so legislative in 
 its character should be incorporated into oiu" 
 Constitution. We ought to make a Consti- 
 tution as plain and simple as possible, and to 
 leave to those who may legislate under the 
 Constitution, to secure all those rights to 
 
174 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, July 29. 
 
 married women and others, which ought to 
 be secured to them. I am in favor of secu- 
 ring to married women sufficient to guard 
 them against all the inconsistencies of man, 
 but I am opposed to so completely separating 
 them that they shall be distinct persons in 
 interest, when the Bible says "they twain 
 " shall be one flesh," — and I believe the gen- 
 tleman across the way is a higher law man. 
 Then I am opposed to any legislation, either 
 in or out of the Constitution, to so separate 
 man and wife that one can set up a trade in 
 one end of the Capitol, and the other in the 
 other, independently of each other. The 
 effect which would result, reminds me of the 
 story of the man who proposed to a husband 
 that he would give him the best horse in his 
 flock, if he and his wife would agree upon 
 the selection. The husband selected the one 
 he thought best, and the wife selected a cer- 
 tain gray mare which she asserted to be the 
 better horse. They could not agree and the 
 consequence was that the man saved his 
 horse. Now the same would be the result if 
 husband and wife were allowed to be entirely 
 independent of each other in controlling their 
 property. Instead of promoting domestic 
 happiness, it would place a barrier between 
 them. I wish gentlemen to xmderstand that 
 I am not opposed to giving woman her rights, 
 but I am opposed to placing any such pro- 
 vision in the Constitution. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I would suggest that the 
 word " before," should be inserted before the 
 word " marriage." It is a mere clerical mis- 
 take. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. Gentlemen seem to think 
 that we are to exclude every thing from our 
 Constitution which savors of legislation. I 
 would like to ask gentleman what the result 
 of our deliberations will be, if adopted by the 
 people, if it is not legislation? Most cer- 
 tainly it is legislation. We are framing a 
 law which is to be emphatically tlie .law of 
 the State. So that whatever we do, I would 
 have gentlemen understand, that it is legisla- 
 tion, so far as it is incorpomted into the Con- 
 stitution. While we should be careful not to 
 encumber our Constitution with useless legis- 
 lation and superfluities, the idea that we 
 should not incorporate anything which is 
 lcgi.slation, is ridiculous upon the face of it. 
 
 A word in regard to tlie idea that we must 
 
 not take up new propositions. If I under-= 
 stand the object of a Constitutional Convene 
 tion, it is that we should take up new ideas 
 and with the world, digest them and incorpo- 
 rate them into the fundamental law if they 
 are right. What is the use of a great and 
 powerful State of our confederacy convening 
 a Constitutional Convention, if it is not for 
 that purpose ? We are framing a Constitu- 
 tion for the State of Minnesota, and I trust 
 we shall consider all the great ideas of the 
 eighty years that we have been a separate and 
 distinct government, and adopt them. 
 
 I am in favor of this proposition. I do 
 think that the rights of married women, in 
 certain circumstances, are not sufficiently 
 guarded. They are an important part of 
 community, and while we are legislating for 
 the benefit of the community, we should 
 legislate for all parts of it. The minority is 
 not to be swallowed up by the majority in 
 any instance. Their rights are as sacred as 
 those of the majority. They should espe- 
 cially be guarded because the majority will 
 look out fbr themselves. The class of per- 
 sons particularly sought to be protected by 
 the provision under consideration, are in the 
 minority, and I hope the proposition will pre- 
 vail. 
 
 The substitute as modified was then 
 adopted. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I caU for the yeas and 
 nays upon the question of adopting the 
 amendment as amended, as a part of the Bill 
 of Rights. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 roll being called, it was decided in the affirm- 
 ative. Yeas thirty-two and nays nineteen as 
 follows : 
 
 Yeas — Messrs. Aldrich, Ayer, Baldwin, Bates, 
 Bartholomew, Billings, Bolles, Butler, Cleghorn, 
 Colburn, Coombs, Davis, Duley, Dickerson, 
 Hayden, Hudson, Hanson, Holley, Kemp, Lyle, 
 Mantor, Messer, Murphy, North, Phelps, Putnam, 
 Peckham, Russell, Secombe, Vaughn, Walker, 
 Winell, and Sheldon.— 83. 
 
 Is^ays — Messrs. Anderson, Coe, Cederstani, 
 Eschlie, Foster, Folsoni, Gerrish, Hall, Harding, 
 King, McGune, McClure, Morgan, Mills, Perkins, 
 Stannard, Smith, Watson, and Wilson. — 19. 
 
 So the amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES offered the following as ;tn 
 additional section : 
 
 "Sec. — . The Legislature shall pnss no law 
 liccQSing the traffic in intoxicating liqi;uu»." 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesdat, Jult 29. 
 
 175 
 
 Mr. HARDING offered the following as a 
 substitute for the additional section : 
 
 " The Legislature shall pass no law granting 
 license for the sale of intoxicating liquor as a 
 beverage. But they may prohibit such sale by 
 suitable enactments. Provided that no such law 
 shall be in force until it shall have been approved 
 by a majority of all the votes cast at the next gen- 
 eral election succeeding the passage of such law." 
 Mr. BOLLES. I am decidedly opposed to 
 the substitute. The objection has already- 
 been harped upon in this Conrention that we 
 are going too much into detail in saying what 
 the Legislature may or may not do. My 
 amendment is simply that* the Legislature 
 shall pass no law authorizing the traffic in 
 ardent spu-its. I am in favor of my proposi- 
 tion, expecting that if it is adopted, the Le- 
 gislature will pass no law upon the subject, 
 but leave the subject as it leaves the selling of 
 potatoes and com, or any other article of 
 traffic. I do not mean that the Legislature 
 shall impose upon good society the stigma of 
 having laws upon the statute book which 
 ^ve encouragement to the traffic of the arti- 
 cle spoken of. 
 
 I do not feel disposed to go into a full ar- 
 gument upon this question. If gentlemen 
 are so exceedingly anxious to lay upon the 
 table every proposition which emanates from 
 certain individuals in this Convention, I want 
 them to give some good reason for it. I am 
 not disposed to have them disposed of so 
 rmceremoniously. If they have good reasons 
 for not adopting them, I hope they will have 
 the courtesy to state them. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I am really glad that this 
 subject has come before the Convention. I 
 am in iavor of the original section, and op- 
 posed to the substitute. In the first place, 
 when we look back and consider the difficul- 
 ties which some States have labored under in 
 regulating the sale of intoxicating drinks, we 
 can discover that there is some pretty good 
 reason why there should be a clause in the 
 Constitution prohibiting it. I should be glad 
 to see this thing carried to the fullest extent. 
 If you please, I may be termed an ultraist 
 upon this subject. I would be glad to hear 
 every gentleman express his opinion upon it, 
 without shirking responsibility by laying the 
 matter upon the table. It is a selJf-evident 
 feet throughout Christendom, that the ques- 
 tion of legislation upon the subject of intoxi- 
 
 cating drinks, has caused more excitement, 
 has been the means of spending more money 
 and time, than any other subject within the 
 same length of time. And why aU this? 
 Because oiu- legislatures cannot adopt a right 
 kind of a law for protecting our citizens from 
 the use and abuse of the power which they 
 give for the sale of intoxicating drinks. If 
 gentlemen will look for a moment at the con- 
 dition of the State of New York ; and the 
 immense difficulty she has had for the last 
 few years, in her efforts to regulate this one 
 thing, as shown by the records of her courts, 
 and then glance at the amotint of pauperism 
 that exists there, and especially in her com- 
 mercial metropolis, they can but come to the 
 conclusion that it is best for the citizens of 
 the Territory of Minnesota, who are about 
 entering upon a new Ufe, to throw aroimd 
 themselves the protection contemplated by 
 this amendment, and that it is the duty of 
 this Convention to nip the evil in the bud. 
 
 Sir, I cannot but feel a little chagrined at 
 the thought that gentlemen wiU swerve from 
 their duty and leave this thing to the Legisla- 
 ture, who may throw it into the hands of the 
 people to vote upon. I am opposed to such a 
 course. I have seen that thing once tried, and 
 have seen its bad effects. I am opposed to 
 ever submitting to the people the question of 
 "license or no license." I hope there will be 
 no shrinking on this question, and that every 
 man will be willing to put himself upon the 
 record by yeas and nays. 
 
 Mr. OOLBURN. I hope we shall spend 
 no time in discussing this question. I pre- 
 sume the minds of members are made up, 
 and I am perfectly vrilling the yeas and na^s 
 should be called. s 
 
 The question was taken on the substitute 
 and it was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES called for the yeas and nays 
 upon the section. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 roU being called, there were yeas twelve and 
 nays thirty-seven, as follows : 
 
 r^os— Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Baldwin, 
 Bolles, Cederstam, Harding, King, Lyle, Mantor, 
 McCann, Messer, and Stannard— 12. 
 
 ;^ays — Messrs. Bates, Bartholomew, Billings, 
 Butler, Cleghorn, Colburn, Coe, Davis, Duley, 
 Dickerson, Eschlie, Foster, Folsom, Gerrish, Hair, 
 Hayden, Hudson, Hanson, Holley, Kemp, McCune, 
 McClare, Morgan, Mills, Murphy, North, Phelps 
 
176 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, July 29. 
 
 Putnam, Russell, Secombe, Smith, Vaughn, "Walk- 
 er, Winell, Watson and Sheldon — 37. 
 
 So the section was not agreed to. 
 
 Pending the call of the roll, a member 
 insisted that Mr. Wilson should vote. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I object to that gentle- 
 man voting, as he was without the bar when 
 the question was stated. 
 
 Mr. KING. We Have a rule which requires 
 tevery member to vote unless excused by the 
 ConventiorC. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The fifteenth rule 
 says that every member who shall be present 
 when the question shall be last stated from 
 the chair, shall vote for or against the samfe, 
 unless the Convention shall excuse him, in 
 which case he shall not vote. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I came in after the ques- 
 tion was stated and the call of the roU was 
 half completed, and I hope the rule wiU be 
 enforced. (Laughter.) I do not know any- 
 thing about the question. 
 
 Mr. KING. One of our rules require 
 members to be present. 
 
 The CHAIR then announced the result of 
 of the vote as above stated. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I will record my vote very 
 quickly, if any gentleman will explain what 
 the question is. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. There is no question 
 before the Convention. (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move to amend sec- 
 tion fourteen by striking out all after the 
 word " prohibited," so that we shall get rid 
 of this question of leasing land for 5, term of 
 years. And besides, it is a matter which 
 fihould be left to the Legislature. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move to strike out 
 section three, and insert in lieu thereof the 
 following: 
 
 "The liberty of the press shall forever remain 
 inviolate, and all persons may freely speak, write 
 and publish their sentiments upon ail subjects 
 being responsible for the abuse of that right." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. CLEGIIORN, I move to amend sec- 
 tion seven by striking out the words — 
 
 " Of the county or district wherein the crime 
 Bball havebetn committed, which county or district 
 shall have been previously ascertained by law." 
 
 — My object is to guarantee, in many cases 
 a change of ycnue. There may be cases of 
 
 offenses committed, when it would be impos- 
 sible for the accused to have an impartial 
 trial in the same county. I wish to leave that 
 matter to be provided for by the Legislature 
 as circumstances may demand. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the amendment 
 will not prevail; It has been one of the 
 sacred rights always guaranteed to citizens, 
 that they should be tried within the district 
 wherein the crime was committed, and that 
 that district should be previously defined. 
 And if I really understand the interpretation 
 which has been given to that clause, it has 
 never prevented the Legislature from passing 
 laws providing for a change of venue. If, 
 however, it is understood to prevent that, I 
 should be in favor of giving it such a limita- 
 tion that the Legislature may pass laws 
 authorizing, in certain cases, a change of 
 venue. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. The article in the Consti- 
 tution of the United States is in these words : 
 
 "In all criminal prosecutions the accused shall 
 enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial by an 
 impartial jury of the State and district wherein the 
 crime shall have been committed, which district 
 shall have been previously ascertained by law, and 
 to be informed of the nature and cause of the 
 accusation against him ; to be confronted with the 
 witnesses against him ; to have compulsory process 
 for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have 
 the assistance of counsel for his defence." 
 
 That is pretty high authority for the plu-ase- 
 ology we have employed, and for one I desire 
 to retain it. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. HAY DEN. I move to amend section 
 twenty-five by striking out the words" not of 
 vindictive," so that it shall read : 
 
 " The criminal code shall be founded on pnnci- 
 ples of reformation and justice." 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. If that amendment pre- 
 vails, I hope the whole section will be stricken 
 out. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to, 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I move to strike out the 
 section as amended. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I move to strike out sec- 
 tion nineteen and insert the following : 
 
 "No religious test or property qualification 
 shall ever be required for civil privileges." 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. It seems to me that the 
 vital jwint of section nineteen is left out of 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, July 29. 177 
 
 the gentleman's substitute. The last part of 
 the section reads as follows : 
 
 "Nor shall any person be rendered incompetent 
 to give evidence in any court of law 'or equity, in 
 consequence of his opinion upon the subject of 
 religion." ^ 
 
 If it is designed by the gentleman's amend- 
 ment to allow the judges of the Court, in 
 their discretion to say that because a man 
 believes in this or that dogma or sect, what- 
 ever it may be, therefore he is not competent 
 to give evidence in a coiu^ of justice, I tliink 
 we ought to vote down the amendment. In 
 the progress of events and of liberal opinions, 
 we have arrived at that point when a man's 
 opinions in regard to a Heaven or Hell, — in 
 regard to the present and the futm-e, shall not 
 incapacitate him to give evidence in a Court 
 of justice, and the dictum of no judge should 
 exclude him on that account. I wish such a 
 right guaranteed in the Constitution, for the 
 decisions of judges upon that question have 
 been various. A man may be a man of truth 
 and veracity, and his oath just as reliable as 
 that of any other person, even though he 
 may not beUeve in all the notions which ar- 
 considered orthodox in regard to future re- 
 wards and pimishments, or any other reli- 
 gious doctrine of the present day. I am 
 opposed to the amendment, for the reasons 
 which I have stated. I am for man as man, 
 in all cases, without regard to his reUgious 
 belief, and I am opposed, upon principle, to 
 depriving him of any privileges which he, as 
 a man, is entitled to. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I differ with the gentleman 
 in the position he assumes in reference to the 
 amendment. I claim that the term " civU 
 " privileges," which I have used, include all 
 the privileges a man is entitled to imder the 
 civil code. It includes the privilege of going 
 into Court and testifying as a witness. We 
 hold our religious views under the protection 
 of the civil laws, when they do not infringe 
 upon the rights of other individuals, and 
 those rights are included in the term " civil 
 " privileges." 
 
 I am not tenacious about the amendment. 
 I offered it because I thought it would sim- 
 plify the matter, and was just wliat we 
 wanted. The gentleman is entirely mistaken 
 in his construction of its meaning. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. That wiU entirely depend 
 23 
 
 upon the construction of the Courts as to 
 what " civil privileges " mean. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 Mr. KING. I move to amend section six- 
 teen by sti-iking out the words " arising out 
 " of any contract expressed or implied,"tS'^ 
 that the section shall read — " no person shall 
 " be imprisoned for debt, unless in cases of 
 " fraud." As our Constitution is to be based 
 upon principles of reformation and justice, 
 perhaps it would be well to put a man in jail 
 if he is guilty of fraud and deceit, but in nO 
 case on accoimt of debt simply. That would 
 be only a biu'den upon the commvmity, and 
 also upon the indi\'idual who put him in jail ; 
 and without any good result. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I am in favor of the 
 proposed amendment. The language as i^ 
 now stands, is not only circumlocution, but 
 it leaves it a matter of some doubt what is 
 intended. There are two classes of debts, — - 
 those arising from contracts, and those ari- 
 sing from tort. This would leave the matter 
 so that any person might be imprisoned in 
 any action arising out of tort, and in addition 
 to that leave it so that he might be imprisoned 
 in an action arising out of contract, if fraud 
 were connected with that debt. If we adopt 
 the amendment offered, it seems to me that 
 it wiU include the whole idea that there shall 
 be no imprisonment for debt except in case of 
 fraud, whether that debt arise out of contract 
 originally, or whether it arises out [of fraud 
 originally. There may be fraudulent circum- 
 stances subsequent to a debt arising out of 
 contract, which I think would justify impris- 
 onment, — for instance the case of a debtor 
 putting his property out of his hands, after a 
 debt has arisen, to prevent the liquidation of 
 that debt. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Upon this matter I should 
 like to hear the views of other members of 
 the legal profession. They tell me there 
 are two or three kinds of debt. There is 
 debt arising from damages. That is what the 
 gentleman calls a tort. "Would this section 
 prohibit imprisonment for legal penalties, — 
 fines for instance — which in one sense are a 
 debt to the State or community? If the 
 striking out of the word "proposed," would 
 have tliat comprehensive scope, we would do 
 well to pause, for we should catch in our net 
 almost every kind of debt. 
 
178 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, Jult 29. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I do not understand that 
 the word "debt" in this connection would 
 include fines. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. It seems to me that 
 the amendment would simplify the section 
 and still cover the whole ground desired. It 
 seems to me that there will ^be no diflSculty 
 in determining the application of the section 
 to cases of fraud. There are actions upon 
 contracts, and actions for damages. Those 
 are neither of them cases of fraud. A case 
 of fraud might be something like this : Sup- 
 pose A gives me a check upon a bank where 
 he has no funds. I pay hmi for the check, 
 and he gets my money by a fraud ; and in 
 such a case under this section I could arrest 
 him. It is to such cases, that I understand 
 the provision is to apply. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I am opposed to the 
 amendment, if I understand it. I think it 
 might be well to strike out the words " ex- 
 " pressed or hnplied ;" but to strike out the 
 words "arising out of, or founded upon any 
 " contract," does not seem to me right. I 
 think that there should be no imprisonment 
 for debt, which really is founded upon or ari- 
 ses out of contract. But where it arises out 
 of fraud I think the Legislature should have the 
 power to provide by law for imprisonment on 
 that account, otherwise a man who has no 
 property might commit a tort with impunity. 
 You might get a judgment against lum, but 
 that would be the end of it. The thing is 
 clear as it now stands, and there can be no 
 mistake about it, and no mischief resulting 
 from it. On the contrarj;^, great inconven- 
 ience, and very deplorable results might fol- 
 low from striking out those words, and there- 
 "by tying up the hands of the Legislature. * 
 
 Mr. MOllGAN. The great objection to all 
 this matter is that it is a question of legisla- 
 tion. We now have upon our statute book a 
 law which covers the whole ground that is 
 covered by tliis section, and I do not suppose 
 there is any probability of that law being 
 changed. I find that almost all our clauses 
 and sections upon which a question Ls raised 
 as to their application, embrace matters of 
 lepslation, and not general principles which 
 ought to be laid down in a Constitution. Now 
 this is a matter of legislation, and has usually 
 been treated as such, but perhaps there can 
 be no great objection to its bebg placed in 
 
 the Bill of Rights, if it can be stated in a 
 clear manner, so as to leave no doubt upon 
 the mind as to its application. It seems to 
 me that to say a man shall not be imprisoned 
 for debt except in cases of- fraud, is exactly 
 what we ij-ant, and covers the whole gi'ound. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I am under the impression 
 that if we strike out the words — 
 
 Mr. KING. I rise to a question of order. 
 The gentleman has already spoken on this 
 subject, and he has no right to speak again, 
 until other members who wish to speak, have 
 spoken. 
 
 (Cries of "Foster!" "Foster!") 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The gentleman will 
 proceed, as no other member claims the right 
 to speak. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. If we strike out the words 
 proposed, I am inclined to think the section 
 will include imprisonment for two or three 
 kinds of debt — one, for instance, damages 
 rendered by a jury for assault and battery, 
 which damages then become a debt, but not 
 one founded on contract. Another case would 
 be where a man has damages rendered 
 against him for slander. Both are penalties 
 and become debts, though not founded on 
 contract expressed or implied. I am inclined 
 to think that we ought to leave the section as 
 it now stands. 
 
 Mr. KING. The gentleman supposes that 
 a debt may arise out of a suit for slander, and 
 that if my amendment is adopted, the author 
 of the slander could not be put in jail for it. 
 Well, I should like to know whether the sec- 
 tion as it now stands, covers that ^ase — wheth- 
 er there is any contract expressed or implied 
 that he should not engage in slander. He also 
 supposes that a case of debt might arise out of 
 an assault and battery, and consequently that 
 the offender could not be put in jail for it, 
 because it was a debt of assault and battery. 
 It is strange that a man should make such an 
 objection as that, because a man guilty of such 
 an act is liable to imprisonment whetlier there 
 be a contract or not 
 
 But what good does it do to put a man in 
 jail for debt ? If I owe a debt, my only hope 
 of liquidating it is from the avails of my 
 labor, from which I am cut off, if imprisoned. 
 What good does it do to put a man in jail for 
 debt ? If I owe a debt, when am I going to 
 bo able to pay it, if I am put in jail ? If left 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, Jcly 29. 
 
 179 
 
 at large, I can possibly earn suflScient to 
 pay it. 
 
 The amendment was not agreeed to. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I move to amend section 
 thirteen, by adding thereto the words — 
 
 " And the jurv or commissioners assessing the 
 damages shall not take into consideration any 
 damages which will result to the owner on account 
 of the improvement for which it was taken." 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I want to say to the gentle- 
 man from Winona, who offers that amend- 
 ment, that we ought to leave that matter to 
 the Legislatm-e, and not legislate upon it our- 
 selves in the Constitution. We should enun- 
 ciate simple principles, and leave the Legisla- 
 ture to go into the minutia. And it strikes 
 me further that the principle is manifestly 
 unjust. There might be a small piece of 
 property taken for the public use, by which an 
 immense advantage would accrue to the owner 
 of the whole property ; and it seems to me that 
 in the assessment of damages, all the circum- 
 stances should, in justice to the public and to 
 the individual, be taken into account 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair would re- 
 mind the gentleman that this whole matter 
 was discussed at length the other day during 
 the absence of many members. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I remember that it was dis- 
 cussed somewhat when I was present, and I 
 believe I said something upon the subject 
 then. I am most decidedly opposed to the 
 amendment being added to the section, for the 
 reason I have already stated, and further for 
 the reason urged by the gentleman himself — 
 applicable to this case, though not applicable 
 to the case to which he applied it — that it is 
 purely a matter of legislation. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. This is a mooted question. 
 If gentlemen will look into the doings of the 
 last LegislatvuT at its extra session, they will 
 find that in granting acts of incorporation to 
 various railroad companies, the Legislature 
 inserted a provision that damages for lands 
 taken by those companies, should be assessed 
 by commissioners or a jury, and that those 
 commissioners, or the jury, should take into 
 consideration the benefit to the party derived 
 firom the improvement. That was adopted 
 by a large majority of the Legislatiure. The 
 principle has prevailed, also, in other Legis- 
 latures, and in others it has been discarded. 
 So it is a mooted question, and ought not to 
 
 be brought into the Constitution, where we 
 merely lay down general principles, supposed 
 to be acquiesced in by a large majority of 
 every community. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Mr. President, I am glad 
 to see my friend from Rice Coimty (Mr. 
 Noeth) show such a placid smile to the Con- 
 vention, as though he had proved that certain 
 persons had been inconsistent. Now sir, 
 when a whole family are concerned and suf- 
 fering it is worse than when one woman is 
 suffering, alone. But to say nothing about 
 woman's rights — for I do not belong to that 
 school — the gentleman did not give the right 
 construction to my position, from the fact that 
 I stated distinctly that when there is any 
 probability that influences will be brought to 
 bear upon the Legislature to divert it from 
 the path of right, and to cause le^lators to 
 make enactments which are not wholesome 
 and just, then put restraints upon that Le^s- 
 lature. 
 
 But this is not legislation, but prohibition 
 of legislation. And I will here say further 
 that the more numerous the cases which are 
 shown where the Legislature has gone so &r 
 as to say that the benefit resulting from a 
 public improvement shall be taken into ac- 
 coimt in assessing the damages of any indi- 
 vidual the greater the necessity, and the more 
 imperative our duty to insert such a provision 
 as this into the Constitution. The question 
 resolves itself into thLs : is it right or wrong 
 that a jury, or commissioners should in the 
 cases supposed take into consideration the 
 benefits derived ? because if they ought not, 
 to take that into consideration, we find the 
 IcOTslatures permitting — aye requiring — them 
 to do so, and therefore the Legislatm-e should 
 be restrained from legislating on that subject 
 contrary to the-interests of the people. Let 
 us restrict legislation on this subject I say. 
 We should restrict them, because corpora- 
 tions have long purses and know how to use 
 them effectually. He who has sat here and 
 seen our Minnesota Legislature act, knows 
 what can be done, and to him I have nothing 
 to say. To him who has sat in the Legisk- 
 tvure of other States and seen them act, I have 
 nothing to say. But to those who have never sat 
 and seen the practical workings of legislative 
 bodies, I say that these corporations hardly 
 ever fail to get from Legislatures what they 
 
160 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, July 29. 
 
 wish. The Legislature is surrounded by a 
 net-work of influences which always prove 
 efficacious. But such a provision as I have 
 proposed has not been inserted in Constitu- 
 tions before, says some one, and therefore we 
 should not insert it here. The world is grow- 
 ing more wise and wicked every day, Mr. 
 President. Railroads did not exist when most 
 of the Constitutions were framed ; these im- 
 mense corporations did not exist, and there- 
 fore there was no necessity to provide for such 
 ^n evil. I have just been informed however, 
 that the Constitution of Ohio docs contain 
 such a pro\nsion. That I did not know be- 
 fore, but I know that the Constitution of 
 Iowa framed the past spring has such a pro- 
 vision inserted in it, and vdth the consent of 
 the Chair I will read it. 
 
 " Private property shall not be taken for public 
 use without just compensation first being made or 
 secured to be made, to the owners thereof as soon 
 as the damages shall be assessed by a jury, who 
 shall not take into consideration any advantage 
 which shall result to said ovyner on account of any 
 imprpyement for which it is taken." 
 
 Ohio and Iowa have railroads in them, and 
 they have felt the influence of these corpora- 
 tions and they have made provisions to guard 
 against their effects in future. 
 
 Now as to the thing itself, is it right or is 
 it wrong ? I do say in the first place, that 
 unless at the time a railroad passes through 
 our Territory we derive a great benefit from 
 the road, we are great losers by the road ? 
 Why ? Is not every real estate holder in 
 this Territory to-day suffering from the rail- 
 road grant which has been made to the Terri- 
 tory ? Has it not checked emigration to a very 
 great extent? Has it not prevented our Ter- 
 ritory from being filled up ? Has not the 
 mandate come from Washington that no more 
 (leclaratory statements of pre-emptors shall 
 be filed for four months to come, and no pre- 
 emptions shall be made on declaratory state- 
 ments made for four months past ? Now to 
 make us as good as we would have been, had 
 not the grant been made, we must derive an 
 immediate benefit at the time the roads are 
 built and go into operation ? 
 
 Another proposition is that tliis grant of 
 land to the Territory of Minnesota was made 
 for the i)eople of the Territory of Minneso- 
 ta, and not for railroad corporations living 
 without the Territory. It was made for those 
 
 here who live by the cultivation of the soil ; 
 it was made for Minnesotians. The very 
 railroad companies which have got hold of this 
 grant, will make themselves rich by it ; and 
 does it come from such a body of men, with 
 good grace, to say to the farmer whose farm 
 is partially destroyed by the road, that he has 
 reaped an advantage fi-om it, and that such 
 advantage must be deducted in estimating the 
 amount of damages he sustains ? I say it 
 comes with a bad grace from them. If they 
 are not to be made rich by it, why did they 
 seek the grant with such avidity ? Why did 
 they expend so much money to get it ? 
 
 To see how this matter -v^orks, take an il- 
 lustration. A and B own farms adjacent. 
 The road runs through the country and across 
 A's farm and cuts off ten rods wide for per- 
 haps half a mile, or what might be worse cuts 
 off a strip of thirty rods in width from his 
 farm. Now he has his crops to protect and 
 he must go to the expense of fencing, if per- 
 chance he is so fortunate as to be possessed 
 of ready cash to do so, which many of our 
 farmers have not, for it costs a great deal of 
 money where timber is so scarce. But whether 
 he has or not, it docs not change the prin- 
 ciple. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. The law of the Territory 
 requires the road to build those fences. 
 
 Mr. WILSON, Some may be required to 
 do so, but I think not all. I do not doubt 
 that the gentleman states correctly as far as 
 he has any inforrhation, and I am not so well in- 
 formed as to speak certainly on the subject. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. My impression was tliat 
 there is a general provision to that effect. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Whether that be so or 
 not, let us proceed, for though it be so, the 
 case is not much better. The company apr 
 points a man, the individual whose property 
 is taken, appoints another, and they two ap-^ 
 point a third, to assess the damages. Well, 
 ho may have two or three hundred acres of 
 land, and may have ten or fifteen acres cut 
 off, and does not leave his farm in good shape. 
 But, says the company, what he has left us is 
 worth double what it was before — for you 
 know that at the time a Railroad is run 
 through the country everybody has a mania 
 about Railroads. Say they, his fann is worth 
 thus cut up, double what it would liave been 
 if tlic road had not run through the neigh-' 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— "Weditesdat, July 29. 
 
 181 
 
 borhood. Therefore "my good man, you are 
 ''not entitled to any damages whatever." 
 Look at the justice of this thing — or rather 
 let us look at the injustice of it — for there is 
 no justice in it. In the first place it is not 
 for the Railroad monopoly to rise up and say 
 you have suffered no damages whatever. 
 Though your house may be separated from 
 your bam, and both from your spring or well 
 — ^yet the nominal value is now greater. That 
 corporation sought for the building of the 
 road, and they are to be made wealthy by it, 
 and if any advantage is to be derived from 
 the rise of property, the actual settler and 
 owner should be the one to benefit. He should 
 not be required, contrary to his will, to take 
 his pay for actual damages — in nominal 
 benefits. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Will the gentleman permit 
 me to rea 1 a claase from the statute upon 
 tiiis subject of fences ? 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Certainly. ' 
 
 Mr. NORTH. The act is in these words : 
 
 " All the different companies mentioned in this 
 act shall construct and maintain a good substantial 
 fence four and otfe-half feet high on both sides of 
 their respective roads, and shall construct and 
 maintain cattle guards wherever the same may 
 be necessary, suflBcient to keep cattle, sheep, horses 
 and hogs from off the track of said road, and shall 
 be liable for all damages sustained by any person 
 by reason of any neglect to keep and maintain 
 such fence and cattle guards in good repair. Said 
 company shall make and keep in repair such farm 
 crossings as shall be necessary to accommodate 
 the several land owners through which the said 
 roads pass." 
 
 Mr. WILSON. WeU that makes it a lit- 
 tle better for the farmer, but how much ? 
 When do they make those fences? Not 
 when they get the grant, and the road is laid 
 out, but when they have completed the road, 
 so that they may not run over cattle. But 
 where are our poor farmer's crops during that 
 two or three years ? He must have the fen- 
 ces made himself for his own protection. Or 
 shall he bring a suit against the company ? 
 What chance has a private individual in a 
 '^ law suit against a corporation of that kind ? 
 They care nothing for suits, and they havo 
 money enough to defeat him by protracted 
 litigation. At any rate it does not meet the 
 wants, and if it does, it meets it only fro 
 tanto. Is not the man's farm very materially 
 injured thereby ? And why should he suffer 
 
 any more than his neighbor whose farm is not 
 thus injured and who yet receives an equal 
 benefit \\ith himself? And why should he 
 not be paid the amount of those damages? 
 There is no reason but because these Rail- 
 road Companies have the purse to buy up 
 the Legislature to pass such laws as they 
 want. 
 
 Interest very essentially affects our views 
 of things. We see things in a different light 
 when our interests are at stake. And here 
 let me say that I do not mean to apply these 
 remarks to my friend from Rice county (Mr. 
 NoBTu) who spoke before me, because I be- 
 lieve he is honest, and will act purely, whether 
 he is interested or not, but I do say that 
 there are many in this Hall who are inter- 
 ested in Railroads to a great amount. Who 
 they are I may not say. But every member 
 who wishes to do right in this matter must 
 look at the subject thoroughly before it is 
 acted upon. I hope they will act upon it for 
 the benefit of the people, and against these 
 monopolies, which we will all cm"se from the 
 bottom of our hearts before ten years roll 
 around. If you are not willing to have your 
 land cut up, and if you are not willing your 
 land should be cut up, you should not be 
 willing to see yoiu* neighbors so cut — diago- 
 nally or otherwise — and twenty, thirty or 
 forty acres taken out, and have it said to you 
 that you have sustained no damage. You 
 should vot^or the insertion of this clause in 
 the Constitution. 
 
 But gentlemen upon the other side say, 
 "that our Legislatures have passed such laws 
 "already as those, I fear, and we cannot 
 " repeal them." Let us then put a stop to it 
 altogether in this Territory. These charters 
 will be modified and changed hereafter, and 
 some others will be taken in their stead, and 
 let it be understood that hereafter there shall 
 be no more such practices. 
 
 I feel upon this subject. It is a matter of 
 right, as I estimate it. We have wagon 
 roads by the sides of our farms, and Rail- 
 roads running through them, and our farms 
 may be literally ruined and we get no dama- 
 ages whatever. Now gentlemen, just consider 
 who should pay for these damages ; consider 
 for whose benefit this Railroad grant was 
 made. If the Congress of the United States 
 made a donation of land, it was for us, and 
 
183 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thuksday, July 30. 
 
 not for Mr. Broker in Wall Street* New York, 
 nor for Minnesota speculators — not for any 
 Railroad corporation, nor for any favored 
 class; but for ourselves, individually and 
 collectively. And it is not for them to say it 
 benefits us, and hence we shall have no dam- 
 ages where they appropriate to themselves 
 and disfigure our farms. They have no right 
 to say because the United States enriched 
 them, therefore they may impoverish us. 
 They are to be made rich by the grant, and 
 why should the poor farmer be made to suffer, 
 and they have all the benefit ? Judging of 
 the future from the past, our legislators can- 
 not be trusted. Therefore, let us stand up 
 for the right and insert the amendment. 
 
 On motion of Mr. DAVIS, (at twelve 
 o'clock and thirty minutes) the Convention 
 adjourned. 
 
 SIXTEENTH DAY. 
 
 Thdbsday, July 30th, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. m. 
 Prayer by the chaplain, Rev. E. D. Neill. 
 The journal of yesterday was read and 
 approved. 
 
 REPORTS OF COMMITTEES. 
 
 Mr. CEDERSTAM, from the conmiittee on 
 the Elective Franchise, made the following 
 report which was read a first and second time 
 and laid on the table to be printad, viz : 
 
 Sec. 1. Every white male inhabitant of the age 
 of twenty -one years and upwards, (excepting per- 
 sons under guardianship — persons of unsound 
 mind) who shall have resided in the State six 
 months, and in the town, ward, or precinct in which 
 he may claim the right to vote, ten days next pre- 
 ceding any election, shall be entitled to vote at 
 such election; if he be a Citizen of the United 
 States, or if he has been an inhabitant of the 
 United States for two years next preceding the 
 election at which he may claim the right to vote, 
 or if he shall' be an inhabitant of this State at the 
 time of the adoption of this Constitution : Provi- 
 ded, ahoayg, that no person of foreign birth — and 
 notacitizen of the United States — shall be n quali- 
 fied elector until he shall have declared his inten- 
 tion to become a citizen in conformity with the 
 laws of the United States on the subject of natu- 
 ralization. 
 
 Sec. 2. It shall be the duty of the Legislature 
 to provide by law at its first session that lists of the 
 names of qualified electors shall be used at nil 
 elections rtqnircd by this Constitution, and like- 
 
 wise to provide as to the manner in which said 
 lists shall be made out and used, and the presiding 
 officers at said elections shall uot be held answera- 
 ble for refusing the votes of any person whose 
 name is not found on said lists as required by law. 
 
 Mr, ALDRICH, from the standing com- 
 mittee to whom was referred the report for 
 the organization of the Executive Department, 
 reported back the same as correctly engrossed. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN, from the committee on 
 Leave of Absence, made a verbal report, 
 recommending that Mr. Cedekstaji have 
 leave of absence until Tuesday the 4th day 
 of August. 
 
 Leave was granted. 
 
 COMMITTEE ON COAT OF ARMS, &C. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS moved that a committee of 
 three on a Coat of Arms and State Seal, be 
 appointed by the Chair. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and thereupon 
 the PRESIDENT appointed Messrs. Bil- 
 lings, Lowe and Bolles. 
 
 PREAMBLE AND BILL OF EIGHTS. 
 
 Under the regular order of business the 
 Convention proceeded to the consideration of 
 the report upon the Preamble and Bill of 
 Rights, — being the unfinished business of 
 yesterday — the pending question being on 
 amending section thirteen by adding thereto 
 the following : 
 
 " And the jury or commissioners assessing the 
 damages, shall not take into consideration any 
 advantage which may result to the owner on 
 account of the improvement for which it was 
 taken." 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I move to amend the 
 amendment by striking out the words, " the 
 "damages," and inserting "such compen- 
 "sation." 
 
 I offer the amendment, (though I am op- 
 posed to the whole thing,) for sundry reasons. 
 One is that it is a matter which properly 
 belongs to the Legislature. That is an 
 objection which has been frequently urged 
 here, and the gentleman from Winona has 
 urged it as frequently as anybody else. I 
 think it is a good and valid objection generally. 
 Such matters should have no place in our 
 Constitution. 
 
 I object to it still further because I think 
 the amendment goes further than this Con- 
 vention .should go, and I may say that it goes 
 further than any Convention ever has gone. 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Thcksdat, Jclt 30. 
 
 183 
 
 I 
 
 The gentleman from Winona (Mr. Wilson) 
 read yesterday from the Constitution of Ohio, 
 as sanctioning such a provision. It strikes me, 
 upon reading that section myself, that it carries 
 no such sanction with it, and that the Constitu- 
 tion of Ohio, in fact, goes no further than the 
 Constitution of the United States and the 
 Constitutions of all other Statfs. It does 
 sanction the idea that the commissioners 
 in assessing the damages a man sustains, shall 
 not offset the leneJiU which accrue to him from 
 the public improvement. It is however declar- 
 atory of the principles which the courts have 
 declared time and again. I recoUect a case 
 which occmred in Vertnont, where there is a 
 statute which declares that the commissioners 
 in assessing the damages, may take into account 
 tne benefits which accrue to the individual 
 also. It was contended that that statute 
 was imconstitutional, as being in violation of 
 that clause in the Constitution of the United 
 States which provides that no man's property 
 shall be taken for public use without just 
 compensation being made. The case was 
 carried up to the Supreme Court, and the 
 court decided that it was in conformity to the 
 Constitution of the United States, and that 
 damages and compensation were different 
 things, and that when property is taken for 
 public use, it must be compensated for in 
 money, and that it was unconstitutional to 
 pass laws to provide that so far as the com- 
 pensation is concerned, the benefits shall be 
 offset. The courts have fi^quently decided 
 that this compensation means compensation 
 in money, and the benefits which accrue can- 
 not be offset. It seems to me that that is the 
 right principle, and that the Constitution does 
 not go any further than that. The Constitu- 
 tion of Ohio does not say that in assessing 
 the damages — which' the courts say is a 
 different thing from the actual value of the 
 property — the benefits shall not be offset, but 
 it uses the word " compensation." It may 
 be well enough to settle in the Constitution a 
 principle which has lead to considerable dis- 
 cussion in the courts, but I am unwilling to 
 go to the length which the gentleman from 
 Winona wishes to go. I think that when a 
 man's property is taken, he shall be compen- 
 sated for the actual value, but if he claims 
 damages beyond the actual value of the prop- 
 erty, the benefits which accrue shall be offset 
 
 It does not seem to me a good argument that 
 some other person's property is benefited as 
 much as his whose property is taken, because 
 you are here establishing a universal rule. I 
 think it is better for us in framing our Con- 
 stitution, to follow universal precedents, and 
 to adhere to the land-marks laid down by the 
 Constitution of the United States. 
 
 The amendment to the amendment was not 
 agreed to. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. As the principle con- 
 tained in this amendment has been thoroughly 
 discussed, I call for the yeas and nays. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I think there are other 
 gentlemen in the Convention who desire to 
 make some remarks upon this subject, and I 
 hope the gentleman will withdraw his call, 
 and allow them to have the same privilege 
 others have enjoyed. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I do not suppose that 
 the call for the yeas and nays will preclude 
 them. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair is disposed, 
 if the yeas and nays are ordered, not to hear 
 any further discussion. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I am not disposed to cut 
 off further discussion, and I therefore with- 
 draw the calL 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. I move a substitute for 
 the amendment, and that is to strike out the 
 word " therefor," in the originjd section and 
 insert — 
 
 "Rrst being made, tendered, or secured to be 
 made to the owner." 
 
 Mr. BATES. I am opposed to the amend- 
 ment, and to everything which has been of- 
 fered, thus far, to change this section. I be- 
 lieve it is right as it now stands. 
 
 There has been much said here of the pe- 
 culiar circumstances in which we are placed. 
 We are told that we are placed in such pe- 
 culiar circumstances that we are obliged to 
 leave out of the Constitution everything upon 
 which there is much difference of opinion. 
 Now we know that this amendment intro- 
 duces a question on which there is great di- 
 versity of opinion, and which will meet with 
 decided opposition from many quarters. Upon 
 that ground I am opposed to it, if there is 
 any force to be given to that objection. 
 
 I am opposed to it also upon the ground that 
 it introduces a species of legislation into the 
 Bill of Rights about which so much has been 
 
184 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thcesday, July 30. 
 
 said. If there is anything which can be 
 called legislation, that amendment is such. 
 What does the original section say ? "No 
 " private property shall be taken for public 
 *' use without just compensation therefor." 
 Is not that all we want ? Does a man want 
 unjust compensation for his property ? If he 
 has a just compensation, is not that sufficient ? 
 If a man receives the worth of his property, 
 he is as well off as he was before. 
 
 But say gentlemen, damages may accrue. 
 But if damages are to be taken into account 
 is it not just and proper that the profit should 
 be taken into account also ? If a man re- 
 ceives the value of his property and then 
 claims that damages should be paid in addi- 
 tion to that, is it not equitable that advantages 
 should be offset? I hope that the section 
 will remain as it now is. 
 
 Mr. BOBBINS. I am in favor of the 
 amendment offered by the gentleman from 
 Winona. It seems to me that if a farmer 
 owns a farm which to-day is worth ten dollars 
 an acre, and a railroad, by passing through it, 
 cuts off twenty -five acres, it is no more than 
 fair and just that he should have the actual 
 value of the land in damages. Here is a man 
 who owns a farm worth ten dollars an acre. 
 A railroad passes through it, and makes the 
 land worth tvrenty dollars an acre. Now if 
 I understand that amendment to mean that 
 when damages are assessed, that land should 
 be calculated at twenty doUars an acre, I 
 should be most decidedly opposed to it. But 
 such is not its effect. It only gives the value 
 of the land, before the road was run through 
 it, as damages. 
 
 Mr, NORTH. I am most decidedly op^ 
 posed to the amendment of the gentleman 
 from Winona, for the reasons assigned by the 
 gentleman from Minneapolis, as well as those 
 assigned by others. It seems to me that if 
 there is any force in the argument that we 
 ought not to go into special legislation in the 
 Constitution, that objection certainly applies 
 here. If there is any force in the argument 
 that, under the peculiar circumstances in 
 which we are placed, we should not introduce 
 into the Constitution a new principle which 
 has not heretofore been introduced into anyi 
 Constitution, it applies here, when we attempt 
 to adopt a principle which will strike a large 
 portion of the p«oi)le of this Territory as very 
 
 unjust. I know that such a provision as that 
 would be regarded as unjust in the extremcj 
 and it seems to me that it bears that injustice 
 upon its face. For the provision applies to 
 all kinds of public improvements, such as 
 common roads, and Territorial roads as well 
 as to railroads. These gentlemen harp upon 
 railroads, asithough they were the only roads 
 to which this principle was to apply. They 
 are entirely mistaken. According to that pro- 
 vision, every man who has a common road 
 laid out through his farm, could tax the peo- 
 ple of the county to pay for it, even though 
 he had petitioned for the road for his own ac- 
 commodation. Look at the effect of the 
 amendment to the amendment. Here a man 
 wants a road laid out through his farm, and 
 petitions for it, and then that road cannot be 
 laid out until he is paid for the land, and the 
 persons appointed to assess damages must 
 appraise the land at its full value, regardless 
 of the advantages the individual may derive 
 from it even though he may have been willing 
 to give ten times the value of the land for the 
 purpose of getting the road. 
 
 The section as it now stands provides for 
 just compensation. Do we want more than 
 is just ? It is a provision sanctioned by long 
 continuance in the Constitutions of other 
 States, and this new provision is an innovation 
 which ought not to be countenanced at this 
 time. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. I am opposed to the 
 amendment to the amendment, and also to the 
 amendment itself. The section simply states 
 that private property shall not be taken foi* 
 public use without just compensation — with- 
 out making any distinction between real and 
 personal property. Justice is to be done to 
 the individual whose property is taken, and 
 in my judgment we cannot insert an amend- 
 ment so as to do justice without we draw a 
 distinction between personal and real property, 
 from the simple fact that a clause inserted 
 here which would apply to personal property, 
 could not be applied to real property. 
 
 In my judgment it ought to be left to the 
 Legislature to say what would be just com- 
 pensation. This argument has proceeded uj)on 
 the supposition that only real property would 
 be taken. I think the section is right as it is, 
 because it simply provides that just corapen^ 
 sation shall be made, and in my judgment, if 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thubsdat, July 80. 
 
 185 
 
 the value of the individual's laild is enhanced, 
 something ought to be allowed to the indi- 
 vidual or company who thus enhances the 
 value. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I hope the amend- 
 ment will not prevail. I am satisfied that it 
 partakes too much of legislation, and I do not 
 believe that imder the Constitution of the 
 United States that clause would be of any 
 avail. An appeal may be taken from the de- 
 cision of the persons or commissioners ap- 
 pointed to assess the damages, and when that 
 appeal is taken and it goes into another tri- 
 bunal, you will have to take for a guide the 
 decisions of the courts upon the very same 
 clause which is contained in the section which 
 is proposed to be amended — and that is upon 
 the question of just compensation. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I think it is singular, Mr. 
 President, that some gentlemen in this Con- 
 vention should press their objections upon the 
 groimd that this partakes of legislation. I 
 say it is singular when they have before them 
 the reports of some eight standing committees, 
 to whom they have referred the different parts 
 of the Constitution, and in every such report 
 there is not only that which savors of legisla- 
 tion, but is legislation far more thin this. I 
 think in the face of that fact, it is singular 
 that this objection should be pressed — and 
 pressed too for the pui-pose of producing ef- 
 fect and having an influence upon the decision 
 of a question which they do not want to meet 
 fairly and squarely. The position I take is 
 this ; where there is danger, real danger that 
 the Legislature will do wrong, there throw 
 restrictions around it in the Constitution. 
 Where the people's rights are likely to be 
 trampled upon by the Legislature, there restrict 
 the Legislature by the Constitution. When 
 such a case as that arises, no man will deny 
 that the framers of the Constitution are bound 
 to insert a restrictive clause. 
 
 Now let us put this matter upon that basis. 
 We all know that Legislatures have been 
 inclined to favor monopolies, and disregard 
 the rights of the poor man, and the men hold- 
 ing property throughout the country ; that 
 they have done it and have continued to do 
 it, and that the railroad companies have al- 
 ways got all they wanted and all they asked 
 for. I need not quote precedents. Gentle- 
 men themselves have quoted precedents enough 
 24 
 
 and they are in my fiivor. They have them- 
 selves shown that the Legislature will do that 
 which is wrong in this respect. Now when 
 we have the evidence before us in our own 
 Territorial laws, that the Legislature wiU sanc- 
 tion such a covirse of proceedings, I say w^ 
 are bound in conscience to restrict them. 
 
 One word as to the argument brought up 
 here by the gentleman from Minneapolis (Mr. 
 Bates) and responded to by the gentlemari 
 from Rice County (Mr. Nobth). I spnm and 
 hate all arguments such as that we shall have 
 the r:\ilroad influences down upon our Con- 
 stitution ; that it is impolitic to do this. If 
 the railroad interest is against the interest of 
 the coimtiy, then down with the raUroad in- 
 terest, and up with the people. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. The gentleman will aUow 
 me to correct him in one point. I am not 
 aware that the gentleman from Rice County 
 responded to any such sentiment, or that the 
 gentleman from Minneapolis uttered it 
 
 Mr. WILSON. The gentleman from Min- 
 neapolis said that we should get the railroad 
 interest arrayed against us ; and the gentle- 
 man from Rice said he responded to' it. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I said that a very large por- 
 tion of the people of the Terrifory would b6 
 found opposed to it ; and not the railroads, and 
 the railroad companies. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I remarked that a great deal 
 had been said in this Convention in regard to 
 the peculiar circumstances in which we are 
 placed, and that much had been said that 
 we could not act out our honest sentiments 
 and convictions of duty for fear of arraying 
 this or that interest against us ; and adopting 
 that principle of action, I thought it wrong to 
 insist upon this amendment here, because it 
 did introduce into this Constitution a question 
 upon which there were opposite views, and 
 to which a great many of our people are 
 strongly opposed. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Yds sir, just so—" stroiigly 
 "opposed" by a great many people of this 
 Territory, and I understood the inunendo as 
 referring to those who had an interest in rail- 
 roads, and the gentleman from Rice County 
 said he heartily responded to the speech of 
 the gentleman from Minneapolis. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I stated clearly wherein I re- 
 sponded to the gentleman from Minneapolis 
 so clearly that nobody need misunderstand me; 
 
186 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thubsdat, July 30. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I did not desire or intend 
 to put the gentleman in a false position, or to 
 misconstrue his language. Now, sir, I say I 
 have no respect for such a position as that, 
 though I may for the men who utter them, at 
 times. Such a consideration will never in- 
 fluence me one particle. If this is the be- 
 ginning where will be the end of it. If in 
 one short year these corporations have got 
 this strong hold, when grown to manhood 
 ■*vhat will they be ? Their grasp will be like 
 that of the giant, and we will fall beneath 
 them. 
 
 But, says my friend from Chisago counlty, 
 this amendment will not make any difference. 
 The construction of the courts will be just 
 the same as it would be without the amend- 
 ment. Now I am astonished at such an 
 assertion, and that, too, from one for whose 
 legal opinion and sound judgment I have great 
 respect and confidence. When he says that, 
 he says it in direct opposition to the declaration 
 of the Legislature in several cases, and of 
 the courts in cases without number. I do not 
 know asingle State in which the question has 
 not bred a "great deal of discord, and so much 
 so that they have been driven to the necessity 
 of putting such a provision as this into some 
 of their Constitutions. It has been said that 
 the State of Ohio has not made any such 
 rule as that which I propose. Let me read 
 from her Constitution. To make assurance 
 doubly sure, they inserted it in two places. 
 In the Bill of Rights they say : 
 
 " Private property shall ever bf held inviolate, 
 but subservient to the public welfare. When 
 taken in time of war or other public exigency, 
 imperatively requiring its immediate seizure, or 
 for the purpose of making or repairing roads, 
 which shall be open to the public without charge, 
 a compensation shall be made to the owner in 
 nloney, and in all cases where private property 
 shall be taken for public use, a compensation 
 therefor shall be first made in money, or first 
 secured by a deposit of money ; and such compen- 
 sation shall be assessed by a jury without deduc- 
 tion for benefits to any property of the owner." 
 
 Then turn over to the article on Corpora- 
 tions and you find this : 
 
 " The right of way shall not be appropriated to 
 the use of any corporation until full compensation 
 therefor be first made in money, or first secured by 
 a deposit of money, to the owner, irrespective of 
 any benefit from any improvement .proposed by 
 such corporation." 
 
 And I will say now that I should prefer to 
 have incorporated with my amendments a 
 provision for full compensation in money, or 
 a deposit in money ; for I do not want these 
 corporations to pay us any thing else than 
 money. They can law an individual any 
 length of time, but if they make a deposit in 
 money, there is no use in lawing it. 
 
 Such are the provisions of the Ohio Con- 
 stitution. Now I will read again what I read 
 yesterday from the recently formed Constitu- 
 tion of Iowa : 
 
 "Private property shall not be taken for public 
 use without just compensation first being made, or 
 secured to Be made, to the owners thereof as soon 
 as the damages shall be assessed by a jury, who 
 shall not take into consideration any advantage 
 which shall result to said owner on account of any 
 improvement for which it is taken." 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I would inquire of the 
 gentleman if that Constitution has yet bee» 
 adopted. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. It has not yet, but I sup- 
 pose there is no doubt but what it will be 
 adopted. It is a Constitution just framed 
 by a people who have felt the iron heel of 
 these railroad monopolies. Gentlemen say 
 that there are no precedents for such an 
 article. I show them that there arc prece- 
 dents, and they would be more numerous 
 were it not for the feet that until recently 
 there has been no necessity for such a pro- 
 vision. Most of the Constitutions were 
 framed when there were few or no railroads. 
 We are not then taking the initiative in tliis 
 matter, but are following where others have 
 found it absolutely and imperatively necessary 
 to go. 
 
 But say some, if a man's damages are to 
 be assessed, of course his benefits should be 
 reckoned too. I answered that point yester- 
 day, — and I answered it to my satisfaction. 
 It is not for these railroad companies who are 
 being made wealthy by this munificent gi-ant 
 of land made by the United States for our 
 benefit — not for the benefit of i-ailroad compa- 
 nies — to say to us that we shall not reap the 
 benefits of that grant. It was made for the 
 benefit of you and me, and all of us Miim«- 
 sotians, and it does not come with good grace 
 from those companies to use such language 
 to the fanners and real property holders of 
 the country, whoso acres they take for their 
 own benefit. And if the people of tlie coun- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thcesdat, Jcly 30. 
 
 187 
 
 try are to bear the expense of building these 
 roads, why should they not bear those expen- 
 ses equally, and not have it shouldered upon 
 a few men who are so unfortunate as to have 
 the road run diagonally through their fami. 
 
 I have made a little calculation. Within 
 the space of one mile we will have sixteen 
 farms — and I would rather be a mile from the 
 road than upon it — and each of these sixteen 
 farms is benefitted as much as the particular 
 farm through which the road runs, and now 
 I ask why should one bear all the damages 
 while there are fifteen others who reap the 
 benefits equally. That is aU wrong. 
 
 But I must say that I cannot appreciate 
 the argument of my friend over the way, that 
 the amendment does not apply equally to 
 real and personal property. Will such an 
 argument as that satisfy any constituency 
 when their farms are run through and cut up, 
 and thus are compelled to build fences to 
 protect their crops, or wait until after the 
 roads are ready to be nm ? For those roads 
 do not protect a man's crops at first. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. The gentleman misappre- 
 hends the statute requiring the company to 
 build fences entu'ely. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. But there are no fences 
 until the roads are built. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. The gentleman claims that 
 to be a statute provision, which is not such at 
 aU. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I feel an interest in this 
 matter, and the coimtry feels an interest in it 
 too, and it wiU be a poor excuse for us to say 
 to them that the Bill of Rights is not the 
 proper place for any such provision. I am 
 in favor of any provision which accomplishes 
 the object, I care not what its wording may 
 be. Give us something to protect ourselves 
 with against these monopolies. Give us 
 something which will grant us equal rights 
 all over the country. This is a matter in 
 which we are following in the lead of others, 
 and it is something which I think the country 
 requires. 
 
 If my proposition then, be absolutely just, 
 vote for it. It is no more legislation than a 
 thousand other things which are in oiu: Con- 
 stitution. It is no more legislation than the 
 insertion of a clause protecting the rights of 
 property of married women. I want a pro- 
 vision which will protect married women, and 
 
 children, and old men ; not one which will be 
 confined in its operation to married women 
 only. How many more will this clause pro- 
 tect, than that clause which declares that in* 
 voluntary servitude shall never exist in Min- 
 nesota ? Let us be consistent. Let us not 
 in legislating upon particular points, lose sight 
 of others quite as important. I do not be- 
 lieve men will be governed by their interests 
 here, but let me tell you it is hard to see 
 through a gold dollar, and there are in this Hall 
 a great many men interested in Railroads. I 
 say our interests imperceptibly warp our 
 judgments, and it behooves those who are 
 not interested to stand up and see what they 
 are doing. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Having expressed myself 
 explicitly upon this question the other day, 
 I did not intend to say anything more, but 
 the gentleman from Winona has taken such 
 a course that I deem it my privilege, if not 
 my duty, to make a few further remarks. 
 When the gentleman made his first attack 
 upon Railroad corporations, — when he lugged 
 it into the argument himself for the first 
 time ; when he set it up as a windmill against 
 which to direct his batteries, I supposed he 
 was setting it up just from his natural love 
 and desire of setting it up and then battering 
 it down again. But I believe the gentleman 
 now really begins to mean what he says. 
 
 The gentleman says he wants them to pay 
 us the money. I really myself begin to be- 
 Ueve that the gentleman, from his proximity 
 to W inona, from which he hails, knows some- 
 thing about tliis question, and is really afraid 
 that he is going to be benefitted by one of 
 these outrageous corporations. I do not know 
 that it is so, but the gentleman himself says 
 that he feels a very great interest in the mat- 
 ter. Now the gentleman takes the ground 
 that other gentlemen here should not be in- 
 consistent. I have no objection to the gen- 
 tleman from Winona being inconsistent. I 
 have no objection to his defending the doc- 
 trine that we should not legislate in this 
 Constitution. I have no objection to his 
 advocating that doctrine upon one subject, 
 and then turning right about face, and advo- 
 cating a contrary doctrine upon another sub- 
 ject. But when he does so, I do not want 
 him to charge other people with being incon« 
 sistent, and complain of that. 
 
188 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thuesday, July 30. 
 
 Now, Mr. President, I take it that it is not 
 pecessary tliat all the members of this Con- 
 vention should vote upon the merits of the 
 principle which is contended for here, although 
 I, for one, would not be afraid to risk this 
 matter upon that very question of principle. 
 I do believe that this Convention does consist 
 of men who laave the natural principles of 
 justice and equity in their hearts, and \n their 
 heads ; and that if the sense of th^s Conven- 
 tion should be taken on t^ie very question 
 whether, when a man is benefitted, almost 
 beyond comparison perhaps, by a public im- 
 provement, he should require the full amount 
 pf damages he may sustain, they woi4d de- 
 cide it in the negative. But at the same time 
 I contend that gentlemen here, who have all 
 along strenuously objected to special legisla- 
 tion in this 'Constitution, have the rio;ht to 
 put their objection upon that ground. I am 
 not one of those who have been so particu- 
 larly opposed to incorpoi^ating into the Con- 
 stitution some matters that might be left to 
 future legislation. The gentleman from AYi- 
 nona has been one of tt^ose. That gentleman 
 not content with Ringing out his general slurs 
 upon those who have been inconsistent, must 
 need bring up again a matter which has once 
 been decided by this Convention, and by a 
 vote which I thought should put the gentle- 
 man to the blush. I mean the subject of the 
 recognition in tliis Constitution of certain 
 rights of married women. AVhen that sub- 
 iect was up for consideration, the gentleman 
 was very much opposed to it, not only on 
 principle, but because it was matter of legis- 
 lation. But now the gentleman undertakes 
 to discriminate by saying tliat he would legis- 
 late in this Convention upon such points as 
 we believe — judging from the past action of 
 ^e Legislature — will not be suflBciently pro- 
 moted. Now I ask the gentleman wlfiat com- 
 fort he can get by his allusion to the subject 
 which was before the Convention yesterday, 
 upon that point? Does not past legislation 
 Rhow.that that particular class never liave had 
 their rights ; and does it not show that this 
 doctrine of inconsistency, like birds of a cer- 
 i/aia kind, go homo at night to roost ? 
 
 I hope gentlemen wl^q are opposed to 
 special legislation will vote against this amend- 
 ment, and tliat those opposed to it in princi- 
 ple, will vote against it, without regard to 
 
 any imputations thrown out by any gentle, 
 man. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. One word Mr. President, 
 in regard to the insiimations which have been 
 thrown out against certain Railroad men in 
 this Convention. I suggest whether it is not 
 ungenerous and unmanly to throw out insinua- 
 tions of that kind so frequently as they have 
 been from that quarter, in regard to this sub- 
 ject. I had supposed there were interests to 
 be guarded upon all sides. I supposed that 
 the public interest in regard to common roads, 
 was to be looked to, as well as those of Rail- 
 road companies, whiph the gentleman from 
 Winona seems to dwell upon incessantly. 
 He dwells upon the interests of the poor 
 man, tlu'ough whpse lands the Railroads pass, 
 and the immense wealth of those Railroad 
 corporations. I believe it is a .fact that there 
 are some wealthy land holders, as well as 
 poor land holders — some wealthy land pro- 
 prietors as well as wealthy Raili'oati compa-. 
 nies, and if I were to judge from the long 
 speeches which are made here, I should sup- 
 pose there were some very special interests to, 
 be fought over in this Convention. And I 
 would suggest that gentlemen should not 
 throw stones when stones may be throwTi in 
 the other direction. It is possible that there 
 may be interests quite as much upon one 
 side as upon the other. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I hope the amendment 
 will not be adopted. Notwithstanding the 
 eloquence and ability with which the gentle- 
 man has urged it, I have failed to see the 
 necessity for it. It seems to. me that the 
 tliirteenth section of this bill is all that is re- 
 quired for the protection of the people. The 
 reasojw urged for it, are based principally 
 upon the assumption that our future legisla- 
 tures arc not ^o do their duty — that they are 
 to be corrupted jyjd bought, as the gentleman 
 from Winona exp];'esses it, by the long purses 
 of our Railroad corporations. I ixm not will- 
 ing to act upon tliat presumption. We have, 
 it is true, the right to recognize the possibility 
 of Legislatures being comapted and bought, 
 but when we assume tliat they are going to 
 be corrupted and bought as a matter of 
 course, and assume that it is our duty to 
 restrict Legislatures upon that ground, it 
 seems to me that it is going too far. I am 
 willing to leave the details of this matter witb^ 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thubsdat, July 30. 
 
 189 
 
 the Legislature, and also with the commis- 
 sioners or jurors who may appraise the dam- 
 ages. 
 
 But I object to the amendment upon 
 another ground. It has been mv fortime to 
 live in a section of country where I have had 
 an opportunity to contrast the prosperity of 
 those States which have pmrsued a liberal 
 course towards Railroad companies, and those 
 which have pursued an opposite policy. The 
 State of New Hampshire has lost milUons of 
 dollars in consequence of the policy she has 
 pursued towards Railroad corporations while 
 on the contrary Massachusetts, an adjoining 
 State, has gained millions of dollars by an 
 opposite policy. And I undertake to say that 
 there is not a State in the Union which has 
 adopted a more liberal policy in that respect 
 than Massachusetts, and there is not a State 
 in the Union which has derived more benefit 
 from Railroads, nor a State which is more 
 properous than Massachusetts. How was it 
 in New Hampshire ? The same arguments 
 were urged in her Legislature, as have been 
 m-ged here to-day, by the gentleman from 
 "Winona. Farmers and agriculturalists were 
 to be ruined, and they placed every restric- 
 tion upon Railroads. Those arguments for a 
 time prevailed, and they refused to pursue 
 any thing hke a liberal course. The conse- 
 quence was that roads were built in a western 
 direction before they were in that State, and 
 the farmers soon found that they were unable 
 to compete with western agricultiire, be- 
 cause the expense of transportation was so 
 great. They were, at length, compelled to 
 abandon their illiberal policy and retrace their 
 steps, and that State is now begining to re- 
 cover from the injury which she had inflicted 
 upon herself. 
 
 Now, Sir, I am not interested myself in any 
 Railroad corporation, but, I hve in a county 
 in which Raihoads are desirable, and we hoge 
 a road will be built through that county in a 
 certain direction, and I do not want anything 
 put into this Constitution which will prevent 
 the building of such a road. I prefer to 
 leave this matter with the Legislature so that 
 they can give us sufficient encouragement. 
 This section gives us all the protection we 
 want. 
 
 The gentleman also refers us to the pro- 
 yisions of the special session of the Legisla- 
 
 ture, which assembled to take into considera- 
 tion the disposition of the land grants which 
 were made by Congress, and from his remarks 
 I judge he would have us infer that whatever 
 he would have us put in here, would afifect 
 the persons whose lands were taken for those 
 roads. That is not the case. It will have 
 no effect upon those coi-porations, but its 
 effect will be confined to corporations hereaf- 
 ter formed to build roads, without the aid of 
 government. Such a provision would pre- 
 vent the building of roads which have not the 
 benefit of the government grants of land, and 
 that is an additional reason why I do not 
 want it inserted here. 
 
 Mr. McKUNE demanded the yeas and nays 
 upon the amendment to the amendment. 
 
 The yeas and nays were refused. 
 
 The question was then taken on the amend- 
 ment to the amendment, and was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I wish simply to say, that 
 I do not, in the least believe, that gentlemen 
 who were interested in Railroads, intend to 
 be influenced by that interest, but I do know 
 that our interests warp us. As to my own 
 interest, I may say that I have none, and if 
 I could have any, that interest would be m, 
 favor of the corporations. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE called for the yeas and 
 nays upon the amendment. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being put, it was decided in the neg- 
 ative, yeas twenty-two and nays thirty-two 
 as follows : 
 
 Yea». — ^Messrs. Anderson, Baldwin, Barthol<K 
 mew, Cleghorn, Coe, Coombs, Davis, Duley, 
 Eschlie, Folsom, Gerrisbi, Harding, King, Kemp, 
 Mantor, McKune, Messer, Peckham, Rdbbins, 
 Walker, Wilson, and Sheldon.— 22. 
 
 Aay«. — Messrs. Aldrich, Aver, Balcombe, Bates, 
 Billings, Bolles, Butler, Colburn, Coggswell, Gal- 
 braith. Hall, Hayden, Hudson, Hanson, Holley, 
 Ljle. Lowe, McCann, McCluie, Morgan, Murphy, 
 Xorth, Phelps, Perkins, Putnam, Russell, Stan- 
 nard, Secombe, Smith, Thompson, Vaughn, and 
 Watson.— 32. 
 
 So the amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I offer the following addi- 
 tional section : 
 
 " Sec. — . Liberal laws regulating capital pun- 
 ishment, should be enacted, but no law prohibit- 
 ing such punishment shall be passed." 
 
 I have scarcely any expectation that this 
 amendment will be adopted, yet I feel that I 
 should not be doing justice to myself^ or to 
 
190 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, July 30. 
 
 the people of the State of Minnesota, without 
 having that question discussed and acted 
 upon in this Convention. I know that in off- 
 ering the amendment I go against the senti- 
 ment of a very large portion of the people of 
 this community, as well "as of others. Yet 
 notwithstanding that, I know that I act in ac- 
 cordance with the judgment and sound rea- 
 soning of another respectable portion of com- 
 munity, not only in this Territory, but in 
 other States. I know, sir, that the abolish- 
 ing of capital punishment has proved delete- 
 rious in the localities in which it has been 
 tried, and I know, also, that States which 
 have made the experiment, have been anx- 
 ious to restore capital punishment. Under- 
 standing these facts as I do, I submit the 
 amendment, and I submit it in the proper 
 place — the Bill of Bights. It is the right of 
 the State of Minnesota to throw around its 
 citizens just and wholesome restraints, and 
 there is nothing which seems to me so whole- 
 some, and so sure of producing a good effect, 
 as to have it understood distinctly, by all in- 
 dividuals, that he who commits murder must 
 suffer the penalty of death. No man com- 
 mits crime, but, in the end hopes to escape 
 punishment. Men do not go to work delib- 
 erately and commit crime, with the expecta- 
 tion of being brought to justice. The man 
 who steals a horse and is sent to State prison, 
 hopes to escape, if the time is long, and he 
 can make anything by it. A man who com- 
 mits murder, and under an imprisonment act, 
 goes to State prison, suffers aU the punish- 
 ment which is inflicted on him. Men may 
 say that he goes there for life. That may be, 
 but it only puts him upon an exact equality 
 with the man who steals a horse, lie too 
 hopes to escape. I have known instances 
 where such criminals have escaped, and are 
 now at large, and at liberty to commit the 
 same crime again. But I will not pursue this 
 train of argument but leave the matter witli 
 the Convention. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I offer the following sub- 
 stitute for the amendment : 
 
 Sec. — . The taking of life, either by hanging 
 or otherwise, shall never be instituted as a mode of 
 punishment for crime in this State. 
 
 In offering that substitute I am not un- 
 mindful of the variety of opinions which 
 exist in our land with regard to this one 
 
 question. It is a question which has been 
 universally discussed in private and public, 
 and by all classes, and by all parties. I am 
 opposed to the amendment offered by my 
 friend from Rice county, because I am op- 
 posed to capital punishment, and I can see 
 nothing in reason or in right which should 
 induce me to support that amendment. I 
 can see nothing in it of a moral bearing upon 
 community, which should induce me to give 
 it my support, while I see many good reasons 
 why I should not support it. I am convinced 
 that more than nine-tenths of all the capital 
 crimes which have been committed, the evi- 
 dence of which now stands upon the records 
 of our country, have been committed in 
 moments of indiscretion, or in times of high 
 excitement, and I am inclined to extend a 
 liberal charity [to a person' who commits a 
 crime under a sort of monomania, as it were. 
 I am inclined to the belief, in looking over the 
 records of the past, and contrasting them with 
 the present, that there are less crimes committ- 
 ed now in proportion to the number of inhabi- 
 tants, than there were fifty years ago. If 
 we look for a moment back into the dark ages 
 of the world, we find that the death penalty 
 induced, in the community, a bad state of 
 morals. And how was it brought about? 
 Every man who has read the history of the 
 past, knows that every man who committed 
 a capital offence, was hung, not as criminals 
 are hung now, but upon the gibbit, and the 
 dangling bones of men have been seen to 
 hang swinging in the air for weeks and 
 months. Now I ask you, what was the state 
 of morals at that time ? I ask any gentle- 
 man if it was anything like what it is now ? 
 Like causes produce like effects, and if the 
 death penalty is carried out, instead of pro- 
 ducing a good state of morals, it will blunt 
 the moral faculties of man. I said, the bones 
 <i£ criminals were seen dangling in the air for 
 months, and it produced a very bad state of 
 society, and it became necessary that some 
 other mode of punishment should be inflicted ; 
 and finally the simple mode of hanging men 
 was adopted. And what is the effect of the 
 death penalty, even now? The records of 
 every State produces evidence of this fact, 
 that even under the very gallows, numerou.4 
 murders have been committed; and conse- 
 quently it is a bad argument for us that the 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thcbsdat, Jclt 30. 
 
 191 
 
 death penalty should be inflicted for the pur- 
 pose of creating a good state of morals in 
 society. On the contrary, it has the effect of 
 hardening men in crime. I would, then, like 
 to see capital punishment stricken from our 
 statute books, and a law passed that would 
 give the culprit, who in a moment of excite- 
 ment, should take the life of one in my 
 family, time meet for repentance. 
 
 Mr. MURPHY, I move the previous 
 question. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. I second it. 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I wish to suggest an 
 amendment, and I hope the gentleman will 
 withdraw his call. 
 
 Mr. MURPHY. I withdraw it. 
 Mr. BOBBINS. I rise to a point of order. 
 The gentleman cannot withdraw his demand 
 for the previous question. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I wish to offer an amend- 
 ment for the consideration of the gentleman 
 from Rice county, and I should be glad to 
 have him accept it. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is not in order, 
 unless the gentleman who made the call for 
 the previous question, and the gentleman who 
 seconded it, consent. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. I insist upon the previous 
 question. 
 
 The previous question was seconded, and 
 the main question was ordered to be put. 
 
 Mr. MAN TOR. demanded the yeas and 
 nays upon the substitute for the section. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being put, it was decided in the 
 negative; yeas nine, nays forty -foiu:, as 
 follows : 
 
 Teas — ilessrs.Aldrich, Bartholomew, Hall, King, 
 Ljie, Mantor, North, Putnam, and Russell. — 9. 
 
 -Vay«. — Messrs. Anderson, Ayer, Balcombe, Bald- 
 win, Bates, Billings, Bolles, Butler, Clegham, 
 Colbum, Coggswell, Coe, Coombs, Duley, Esch- 
 lie, Folsom, (Jalbraith, Gerrish, Hajden, Hard- 
 ing, Hudson, Hanson, Hollej, Kemp, Lowe, Mc- 
 Cann, McKune, McClure, Messer, Morgan, Murphy, 
 Phelps, Perkins, Peckham, Bobbins, Stannard, Se- 
 combe. Smith, Thompson, Vaughn, Walker, Wat- 
 son, Wilson and Sheldon. — 44. 
 
 The question recurring upon the section 
 offered by the gentleman fix)m Rice county, 
 (Mr. BoLLEs) it was put, and the section was 
 rejected. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I move that section 
 twenty-four in reference to dueling, be stricken 
 6ut. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Upon that motion, I 
 move the previous question. 
 
 The previous question was seconded, and 
 the main question ordered to be put. 
 
 Mr. NORTH demanded the yeas and nays 
 upon the motion to strike out 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being put, it was decided in the neg- 
 ative ; yeas twenty-three, nays thirty-two, as 
 follows : 
 
 Tea* — Messrs. Aldrich, Balcombe, Bates, Cleg- 
 horn, Coggswell, Duley, Eschlie, Galbraith, Hall, 
 Hanson, Kemp, Lowe, McKune, Morgan, Mills, 
 Murphy, Perkins, Bobbins, Russell, Stannard, 
 Walker, Watson and Wilson— .23. 
 
 JVay« — Messrs. Anderson, Ayer, Baldwin, Bar- 
 tholomew, Billings, Bolles, Butler, Colburn, Coe, 
 Coombs, Davis, Folsom, Gerrish, Hayden, Hard, 
 ing, Hudson, HoUey, King, Lyle, Mantor, McCann, 
 McClure, Messer, Xorth, Phelps, Putnam, Peck, 
 ham, Secombe, Smith, Thompson, Taughn, and 
 Sheldon.— 32. 
 
 Fending the call of the roll — 
 Mr. GALBRAITH said : In regard to this 
 matter I think there is a misunderstanding. 
 There should a be a provision similar to this 
 somewhere in the Constitution, but I do not 
 think this the proper place for it, and for that 
 reason I vote in the affirmative. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I also wish to say that 
 while I am opposed to this in this Bill of 
 Rights, I do not wish it understood that I am 
 opposed to it in the Constitution. Therefore 
 I vote " aye." 
 
 Mr. RUSSELL. I believe that the provis- 
 ion should be in the Constitution, but I think 
 it is in the wrong place here. 
 
 The PRESIDENT then announced the re- 
 sult of the vote, as above recorded. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I now more the previous 
 question upon the adoption of the Pream"ble 
 and Bill of Rights. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I hope the motion wiU 
 not prevail. I would suggest whether it 
 would not be best not to act finally upon this 
 matter until it has passed through the hands 
 of the committee upon Arrangement and 
 Phraseology for Engrossment. Should we 
 adopt these articles finally one by one, or re- 
 fer them all to that committee and when they 
 report them all back, take the question on 
 theni aH at the same time ? In tliat way we 
 shall avoid the possibility of one conflicting 
 with the other. 
 The PRESIDENT. Discussion is not is 
 
192 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thuesday, July 80. 
 
 order upon a demand for the previous ques- 
 tion. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I withdraw the demand. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I move that the report as 
 amended be re-committed to the committee 
 for the purpose of having it engrossed. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I would enquire whether, 
 When it is reported back from that committee 
 it would not be open to amendment ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair is of opin- 
 ion that further amendment would not be in 
 order. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. If that is so I have no 
 objection to its re-commitment. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. We had better not be 
 in too much haste. Why have this report 
 engrossed now, so as to preclude all further 
 amendment ? We may be compelled, when 
 all the reports are adopted, to go to work and 
 fit the different parts together, and in doing 
 so, it may be necessary to modify some of 
 them. There may be surplusage in this one 
 or that, and it is impossible to tell now how 
 the next one may fit to it. I think the whole 
 of them should be taken into view at one 
 time. Are gentlemen willing to have the re- 
 port engrossed now, and all opportunity for 
 amendment cut off? We have had amend- 
 ment upon amendment made to this report, 
 and I ask any gentleman if he c an tell now 
 exactly how the matter stands ? Should the 
 matter not be left open so that it can be cor- 
 tected and compared with the balance of the 
 Constitution ? 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I wish to know if the 
 gentleman means to be understood to say that 
 the best course for us would be not to adopt 
 finally any of these reports, until they are all 
 placed before us? 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I do. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. It seems to me that this 
 teport is the foundation of our work, and that 
 all subsequent parts of the Constitution s-hould 
 be in subjection to this, and made to corres- 
 pond with it. It seems to me that the report 
 should be sent to the committee for engross- 
 ment 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I wish not to urge 
 this matter upon gentlemen, but I think there 
 ought to be calm consideration before wetake 
 that course. I would say now, that I think 
 there is in this Bill of Rights, that which is 
 unconBtitutional in itself, uid it would not 
 
 look well for us to send out to the people ail 
 unconstitutional Constitution ; and if we en- 
 gross the report now we cannot amend it in 
 that respect. In the twenty-fourth section 
 there is a clause which is palpably unconstu- 
 tional. " Any citizen of this State who shall, 
 " aflet the adoption of this Constitution, fight 
 " a duel with deadly weapons, or send or ac- 
 " cept a challenge to fight a duel with deadly 
 " weapons either within this State or out ofit^ 
 " &c., shall be deprived of holding any ofiBce 
 " of profit or trust under the State." NoWj 
 sir, those words, " or out of it" are vtrong. I 
 refer to the case of Mr. Bissell of Illinois, who 
 now holds the office of Governor by virtue of 
 the unconstitutionality of a similar clause in 
 the Constitution of that State. We have no 
 jurisdiction over the punishrtient of crimes 
 committed out of this State. According to 
 the language of the Illinois Constitution, Gov- 
 ernor Bissell was ineligible to oflBce, and dire 
 threats were made against him by his oppo- 
 nents if he dare qualify for the oflBce. But 
 he did take the oath of office, and defied the 
 Constitution, upon the very gi'ound of the un- 
 constitutional character of that article. Now 
 there is no use of our going beyond what can 
 be carried out. We may show our aversion 
 to duelling, but do not let us show our aver- 
 sion to the Constitution of the United States 
 at the same time. 
 
 Mr. WATSON. The amendment which 
 I offered to that section was intended to ob- 
 viate that very difficulty, and I would like to 
 see it made right now. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The motion to re-com- 
 mit takes precedence of a motion to amend. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. The provision of the Illi- 
 nois Constitution is different from ours, and 
 it is easy to see that a decision might be had 
 under it, which is not applicable to us. The 
 provision in the Illinois Constitution ia as 
 follows : 
 
 "Any person who shall, after the adoption of 
 this Constitution, fight a duel, or send or accept a 
 a challenge for that purpose, or be aider or abettor 
 in fighting a duel, shall be deprived of holding any 
 office of honor or profit in this State, and shall bo 
 punished otherwise in such manner as is or may 
 be prescribe by law." 
 
 That was construed to apply only to the 
 State of Illinois. But our provision is more 
 broad in its application, and says whether hef 
 fight a duel either in this State " or out of it." 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thuesday, Jclt 80. 
 
 193 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I hope the Convention 
 will be in favor of striking out the whole sec- 
 tion, but if they determine not to do so, yet 
 I hop# they will not consent to send it out to 
 the people in its present shape. To show the 
 unconstitutionality of that provision let me 
 read a part of section eight of this same report : 
 
 "And no person for the same offence shall be 
 put twice in jeopardy of punishment, &c." 
 
 Now suppose a citizen of Minnesota goes 
 across into Wisconsin and fights a duel there, 
 he becomes amenable to the laws of "Wiscon- 
 sin, and when he comes back he is to be pun- 
 ished again. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I do not profess to be a 
 lawyer, but I take a different view of this 
 matter from what many gentlemen take. It 
 has reference to fighting duels out of the 
 State, and declares that no one fighting a duel, 
 out or in the State, shall be eligible to office 
 within this State. Suppose a man lives in 
 Wisconsin and there fights a duel, and after- 
 wards becomes a resident and citizen of this 
 State, this clause would make such person 
 ineligible to office in this State. I think that 
 should be so. 
 
 Mr. SECOilBE. I do not think that upon 
 either ground mentioned by the gentleman 
 from Scott County (Mr. GALBBAriH) or the 
 gentleman from Hennepin County (Mr. Al- 
 drich) that the section is unconstitutional. 
 As has been observed by the gentleman from 
 Rice County (Mr. North) the decision, given 
 in the Illinois case, was upon a very different 
 foundation from the section under considera- 
 tion here. It was there decided, as it was 
 made a crime to be punished not only other- 
 wise, but to be punished in this way, that it 
 could only apply to the State of Illinois, con- 
 sequently any act committed out of the 
 State would not come within the provisions 
 of the Illinois Constitution. The gentleman 
 from Hennepin County contends that it would 
 subject a man to punishment twice for the 
 same offence. I differ with the gentleman. 
 I do not believe that it is a pimishment, which 
 ■ is proposed in this section — no more a pun- 
 ishment than it is a punishment to say that 
 certain persons, as we have said in the report 
 of the Committee on the Executive Depart- 
 ment, shall not hold the office of Governor, 
 unless they be citizens of the United States. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. Is it not probable that 
 25 
 
 the Legislatm'e of the State will hereafter 
 pass laws punisliing dueling ? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would inform the gen- 
 tleman fi-om Hennepin County that I hope 
 they will. K they do, then a person com- 
 mitting the crime of dueling will be punished 
 once and or^y once, for it is no more a pun- 
 ishment, to say that a man who fights a duel 
 shall not hold an office, than it is a punish- 
 ment to say that a man, unless he is a citizen 
 of the United States, shall not hold an office* 
 We have said that no man shall be Governor 
 of this State unless he be a citizen of the 
 United States. Now we have a plenty of 
 men in this Territory who will be punished 
 by that provision, if that kind of legislation 
 is to be construed as punishment. But it 
 seems to me that it is not a punishment in 
 any way or manner. It is merely giving to 
 certain citizens privileges which we do not 
 give to all citizens. It is a deprivation, to be 
 sure, of the exercise of certain privileges. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN (interrupting). I rise to 
 a point of order. As there is no question be- 
 fore iixQ Convention, the gentleman is out of 
 order. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The motion before the 
 Convention is a motion to commit. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I withdraw the motion. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I was discussing that 
 point, and showing argimaents why we should 
 not commit. The only argument urged in 
 favor of committal was that we have here a 
 provision which is unconstitutional. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I renew the motion. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I desire to submit a mo^ 
 tion for reconsideration, if the gentleman will 
 withdraw his motion. 
 
 Mr. COGGS^VELL. I am inclined to ac- 
 commodate the gentleman, but I am still fur- 
 ther inclined to accommodate the gentleman 
 from St. Anthony (Mr. Secojibe) and there- 
 fore I decline to withdraw my motion. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. My reason for withdraw- 
 ing the motion was that some felt that some 
 other motion should be considered in regard 
 to this report. I did not desire to take any 
 advantage, or cut off any gentleman from 
 the privilege of speaking. 
 
 Mr. GxlLBRAITH. The only thing I wish 
 is, that all parts of this report sliall be con- 
 sistent, and I think that the engrossment of 
 it will cut off necessary corrections. 
 
194 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thl-bsdat, July 30. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair would sug- 
 gest that there is a difficulty in reference to 
 this matter, which the Convention might as 
 well overcome now as at any other time. We 
 have no engrossing Clerk or engrossing com- 
 mittee, which deliberative bodies of this kind 
 usually have. The Chair would .suggest the 
 propriety of re-committing this report to the 
 committee from which it came, for engross- 
 ment. If it is referred to that committee for 
 engrossment, they will retain it, until aU the 
 reports have been considered, and then when 
 they are reported back, the Convention can 
 go into committee of the Whole on all the 
 reports, and then report them back for final 
 action by the Convention, and then send them 
 to the committee on Arrangement and Phra- 
 seology, 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. Do I understand that a 
 reference of it to the Standing committee for 
 Engrossment, brings it back with the privilege 
 of amendment again ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. Th» re-commitment of 
 a bill, unless it be for engrossment only, will 
 put it in a situation which will require its con- 
 sideration again by the committee of the 
 Whole. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I desire that it shall be 
 re-committed to that committe* for engross- 
 ment simply. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. The sooner tliis Bill of 
 Rights is placed beyond the reach of amend- 
 ment, the better it will be, I think. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The question will be 
 upon re-committing the bill to the committee 
 for engrossment. 
 
 Mr. COGSWELL, I have sat by quietly 
 this morning and listened to the arguments 
 which have been adduced both for and against 
 certain sections in the Bill of Rights which 
 the committee saw fit to report, and some of 
 them have been pretty good, in my judgment, 
 and some not so good. At the time we made 
 this report, we did not con^der it perfect by 
 any means. We concluded to arrange it as 
 well as we could, report it to the Convention, 
 and let them make such amendments as they 
 thought proper. If I have kept track of the 
 amendments which have been made, some of 
 them arc pretty good, and some of them are 
 ■not as good as the original. 
 
 In regard to thi.s particular twenty-fourth 
 ficction, as an individual member of the Con- 
 
 vention, I am in favor of striking it out alto- 
 gether, for the reason that if any of our peo- 
 ple are inclined to fight, I do not wish to 
 place anything in their way. It is som(ftimcs 
 absolutely and indispensably necessary that 
 men should fight. I do not know that I de- 
 sire that any particular mode of fighting shall 
 be prescribed or proscribed by this Conven- 
 tion. If a man wants to fight with pistols I 
 have no objection; or if he wants to use the 
 instruments alone which the Almighty has 
 given him, I have no objection to that either. 
 But if tills provision is to be inserted in the 
 Constitution at all, I am in favor of its re- 
 maining about as it is. 
 
 The PRESIDENT (interrupting). The ques- 
 tion is upon ordering the report to be engi'oss- 
 ed for a third reading. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. That is very true, 
 but from the remarks which have been made, 
 and the latitude of remarks which have been 
 allowed, I think it not improper that I should 
 say a few words in regard to the constitution- 
 ality of the section immediately in discus- 
 sion. But if there is any objection, I will 
 resume my seat, (Cries of "goon" "go 
 on.") 
 
 The section says, if " any citizen of this 
 " State who shall, after the adoption of this 
 " Constitution, fight a duel with deadly weap- 
 " ons, or send or accept a challenge to fight a 
 " duel with deadly weapons, either within this 
 " State or out of it." — Now, it is that portion of 
 the section, which refers to duels fought out 
 of the State, to which objections are raised. 
 
 If the fighting of a duel out of the State is 
 proposed to be punished as a crime, then I 
 have no doubt but that it is unconstitutional ; 
 for it is a well settled principle of the common 
 law that when a man conmiits a crime ii) one 
 State, he cannot be punishwl fur that crime 
 outside of the limits and jurisdiction of that 
 State. But I do not understand that we 
 propose to pimish the fighting of a duel out- 
 side of the ^nits of this State, as a crime. 
 We do not propose to say that he shall pay a 
 fine of fifty or a thousand dollars. We do 
 not propose to say that he shall be imprisoned 
 in the county jail Ht -ix ihoiuIh, ov iiicarcor- 
 ated within tlie walls of a puniLcuLiary lor any 
 length of time. We simply say that if lie 
 commits that particular crime he shall not bo 
 Pound Master, Register of Deeds, yecretary 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— THmsDAr, Jcly 30. 
 
 195 
 
 of State, Lieufcnant-Govemor, or Govemor. 
 . It seems to me that when we saj he shall 
 hold no office of profit or trust in the State, 
 we do not undertake to punish the act as a 
 criminal offence. If we look at the Constitu- 
 tion of the State of Texas, we find this same 
 provision, letter for letter, and the Supreme 
 Court of that State has decided that that was 
 not unconstitutional. That is the only State, 
 within my recollection, in which that question 
 has been raised and decided. They make a 
 distinction between the punishment of a crime, 
 and a mere disqualification {ov holding any 
 office of profit and trust We say in our 
 Constitution, that no person shall hold the 
 office of Governor unless he be a citizen of 
 the United States, and imless he has resided 
 within the limits of this State a certain length 
 of time, «S;c. Now there are many men who 
 would be disqualified fi-om holding that office 
 simply because they have not resided within 
 the State that length ot time, and because 
 they are not citizens of the United States. 
 "We do not regard that provision as a punish- 
 ment for the crime of not being a citizen of 
 the United States, or of not residing here a cer- 
 tain length of time. Now the provision under 
 consideration does nothing more than that. 
 It simply says he shall not hold any office of 
 profit or trust under the State, and we do not 
 inffict upon the individual any criminal pun- 
 ishment. If we do not, as a matter of course 
 it is not unconstitutional. 
 
 Mr. MILLS. As one of the minority upon 
 this question, I hope it will be recommitted 
 to the committee, so that we may have some 
 chance of still further amending it. It se^us 
 to me that we have gone too fiir, and that in 
 the Bill of Rights we should declare nothing 
 but general fundamental principles. Instead 
 of declaring here that dueling is an evil and 
 shall never be allowed in this State, we go on 
 and prescribe how it shall be punished. If 
 we notice dueling in the Constitution, why 
 should not we notice gambling, or murder, or 
 any other crime? If we notice all those 
 subjects we shall sit here six ^or eight months. 
 I do not imderstand that ^>came here to 
 make laws for the people ; yut to prepare a 
 system by which they may make laws them- 
 selves through the Legislature. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. My opinion is that we 
 shall be in the Union as a State, and imder a 
 
 Constitution framed in the other end of the 
 Capitol, before we get our Constitution framed, 
 unless we stop this interminable debate. I 
 I see no prospect of this Convention adhering 
 to fundamental (principles in framing this 
 Constitution. I hope we shall go on and 
 dispose of this matter without finrther delay. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. If the Chair puts the 
 question to the Convention in this way — 
 "Shall the report of the committee on the 
 " Bill of Rights be engrossed for a third 
 " reading?" — it will put it out of the power 
 of this Convention to further amend it If 
 the question is put to recommit it to the 
 standing committee, then, when they report 
 it back to the Convention, it will still be sub- 
 ject to amendment. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would inquire what op- 
 portunity the committee on Arrangement and 
 Phraseology will have to act upon this sub- 
 ject? When will it be their province to 
 attend to that duty ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. After the various 
 reports have been adopted in detail, they are 
 to be sent to the committee on Arrang'^nient 
 and Phraseology, and that committee will 
 have no right to make any alterations, except 
 such as are actually necessary to carry out 
 the intention of the sections. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. If there were two similar 
 articles in different reports, would they have 
 the right to strike out one ; and would they 
 have the right to take a provision fix)m one 
 report and put it into another ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair thinks they 
 would have the right, with the final concur- 
 rence of the Convention. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I am in favor of having the 
 report recommitted, and I would like the 
 committee to have the right to suggest cer- 
 tain changes in in it, if they see fit to do so, 
 and when it comes back to us, I would like to 
 see prompt action upon it 
 
 I would suggest, also, that we should not 
 talk quite as much as we have done ; that we 
 should keep up more thinking, and check our 
 propensity to amend. I recolle<Jl at one time 
 that there were no less than eight or ten 
 amendments offered to one section, all of 
 which were rejected ri^t straight along, and 
 I doubt whether any one can count the num- 
 ber of amendments which have been offered 
 to one single section of this report. This 
 
196 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, July 80. 
 
 thing consumes time, and, as has been sug- 
 gested, unless we are cautious we shall pro- 
 tract the session to months. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. If I understand any- 
 thing about an engrossed paper, it is not sub- 
 ject to amendment at all, except by unani- 
 mous consent. Now we have a committee on 
 Arrangement and Phraseology, and if I un- 
 derstand their duties, they are to take all the 
 parts of this Constitution and fit them 
 together, and report the result to this House, 
 with the corrections they have made — for I 
 do not consider that the committee have any 
 final power in the matter at all. Now would 
 it not be putting the cart before the horse to 
 engross any of these papers and then send 
 them to that committee, and allow them to 
 take out a whole section here, and place it 
 elsewhere, and strike out a word here and a 
 word there ? "Would that be the paper then, 
 which was ordered to be engrossed by this 
 body. Would it not be better to hand the 
 reports with the amendments, to the com- 
 mittee on Arrangement and Phraseology, as 
 fast as we get through them, and let them 
 compare the one with the other, and then re- 
 port the whole thing back to the Convention 
 corrected, and ready for engrossment? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The thirty-seventh rule 
 ef this Convention reads as follows : 
 
 " Every article when read a third time and 
 passed, shall be referred to the committee on Ar- 
 rangement and Phraseology." 
 
 I thought, at the time the rule was adopted, 
 that it was a bad rule. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. In order that we may 
 have a little time to consider this matter, I 
 move that the report be laid on the table. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I hope that motion will not 
 prevail. I want to see some progress made 
 in our work. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICII. I hope no disposition 
 will be made of this report, until it is finally 
 disposed Q^ by this Convention. I also hope 
 tliat every amendment which may be olTcred 
 — and I am%illing that every momhor should 
 offer as many amendments as he pleases — 
 will be voted upon without discussion. 
 
 From this time forth I shall insist that the 
 Chair enforce the rule that no member shall 
 speak but once until all others have spoken 
 who desire to speak, I hope the gentle- 
 
 man who made the motion that the report be 
 engrossed, will withdraw it, and if there are 
 any further amendments to be offered, let us 
 go on and consider them, and then dispose of 
 the report finally. Let us not be idling our 
 time as we have done. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I withdraw the mo- 
 tion. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I want to have this mat- 
 ter disposed of. I want it either put beyond 
 the reach of amendment or have the Conven- 
 tion immediately decide to amend it further. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Gentlemen have off- 
 ered aU the amendments they could, and then 
 they rise up and tell us we shall not offer any 
 more. I have not discussed this matter. I 
 ask you if you are not getting yourselves 
 into trouble ? You put it upon record that 
 you have ordered this paper to be engrossed, 
 and then it will come up again, and under a 
 suspension of the rules will have to be 
 amended again. I tell gentlemen, who are 
 talking about offering so many amendments, 
 that I have offered no amendment which I 
 did not consider important, and the only rea- 
 son why I moved to lay it upon the table was, 
 not that I wish to amend it again, but that I 
 desire that we shall proceed in a right man- 
 ner. Every other report has to go through 
 the same process as this, and the object of 
 my motion was that we might have time for con- 
 sultation as to the best mode of putting our 
 Constitution into shape so that there should 
 be no clashing. 
 
 Then, on motion of Mr. SECOMBE, (at 
 twelve o'clock and fifteen minutes) the Con- 
 vention adjourned until half past two o'clock. 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention met at half past two o'clock. 
 
 KESOLUTIONS. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE offered the following reso- 
 lutions, which was read a first and second time 
 and laid upon the table imder the rules: 
 
 Whereas, There is official evidence from the 
 production of the certificate of election, that there 
 is a majority of the legally elected members to 
 the ConstitutionaJ invention who claimed and 
 have been odmi^bji to seats in this Convention ; 
 nnd, V. 
 
 Wheeeas, The members now holding scats in 
 this Convention who produced j)ri7na facie evi- 
 dence by the production of regular certificates of 
 election as such delegates, represent a majority 
 of the legal voters of this Territory, and, 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tat rsdat, Jult30. 
 
 197 
 
 "Whereas, There are some iodUs of men begLn- 
 ning to assemble in a chamber of this Capitol, 
 who call themselves the Constitutional Convention, 
 which thev have an undoubted right to do, on the 
 principle that if a man desires to make a fool of 
 himself, there is no law against it — many of whom 
 have no certificates of election to the Convention ; 
 others who have certificates, and who would be 
 admitted to seats in this Convention, upon the 
 production of their certificates — who have not 
 attended the meetings of this Convention, from 
 reasons best known to themselves, therefore, 
 
 Risolved, That the men occupying the chamber 
 at the other end of the Capitol, are there, in our 
 opinion, for the purpose of defeating the will of 
 the people, and that their acts will not be recog- 
 nized by the electors of this Territory. 
 
 Risohed, further. That while that body of men 
 in the Council Chamber are denouncing us to the 
 Federal President, and threatening us with the 
 power of their masters, that the above preamble 
 and resolution, together with copies of the cre- 
 dentials and evidtnce of election of members of 
 this Convention be laid before the sovereign peo- 
 ple of the Territory of Minnesota, to whom we 
 appeal for the ratification of our action as a Con- 
 vention. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR offered the foUowing resolu- 
 tion, which was read, considered and agreed 
 to, viz : 
 
 "SesoUed, That there shall be a standing com- 
 mittee on Engrossment, consisting of five mem- 
 bers to be appointed by the President." 
 
 The PRESIDENT thereupon appointed as 
 such committee, Messrs. Maxtob, Kixg, 
 Phelps, Peckham, and Wixell. 
 
 Mr. COE offered the following resolution : 
 "Resolved, That this Convention adjourn with- 
 out day OB Friday, the seventh day of August 
 next." 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I think it will be im- 
 proper to pass a resolution of that kind imtil 
 we see how we get along with our business. 
 If we fix that day we may have to adjourn 
 without completing our business. 
 
 The resolution was laid over tmder the 
 rule. 
 
 PBEAMBLB AXD BILL OE BIGHTS. 
 
 The Convention, under the regular order 
 of business, resumed the consideration of the 
 report of the committee upon the Preamble 
 and Bill of Rights. 
 
 The PRESIDENT stated tlie question to 
 be on the amendment to the twenty -fourth 
 section, to strike out the the word " either," 
 in the third line, and the wordsi " or out of 
 "it," in the fourth line. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE caUed for the yeas and 
 . nays, but they were refused. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to strike out the 
 twenty-second section, which is as foUows : 
 
 "Xo lottery shall ever be authorized in this 
 State, and the buying and selling of lottery tickets 
 is hereby prohibited." 
 
 My reason for the motion is that in the 
 report of the committee upon the Legislative 
 Department, there is this provision : 
 
 "The Legislature shall never authorize any 
 lottery, nor allow the sale of lottery tickets." 
 
 I think that is the appropriate place for 
 such a provision. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to amend section 
 twenty-fourth, relating to dueling, by striking 
 out the , words, "deprived of holding," and 
 insert in lieu thereof the words " ineligible to." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I would suggest that m 
 the last line of the same section the words, 
 "the laws of" should be inserted so as to 
 make it read " of profit or trust tmder the 
 " laws of this State." I move they be inserted. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would suggest the words, 
 " within this State." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I accept of that modi- 
 fication. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. That would seem to be a 
 prohibition of any one holding a federal oflBce 
 in this State. That could not be done of 
 course, but I would prefer to have the lan- 
 guage suggested by the gentieman from Hen- 
 nepin coimty, (Mr. Mobgas.) 
 
 The question was taken upon the amend- 
 ment as modified, and it was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. KING. I move to strike out section 
 sixteen, and insert in lieu thereof the words : 
 
 " There shall be no imprisonment for debt." 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I think that motion has 
 once been made, and that the Convention 
 refused to strike out the section. 
 
 Mr. KING. There was a motion made to 
 strike out certain words, but no amendment 
 to strike out the whole section. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. COE. I move to reconsider the vote 
 by which the Convention refused to strike 
 out the section. , 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would inquire if the 
 gentleman voted with the majority. 
 
19S 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, July 80. 
 
 Mr. COE. I did. 
 
 Mr. WATSON. I move that there be a 
 call of the Convention. 
 
 A call was refused. 
 
 The motion to reconsider was lost. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I move that the report 
 be ordered to be engrossed for a third 
 reading. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I hope the gentleman wiU 
 withdraw that motion and move to refer the 
 report to the committee on Arrangement and 
 Phraseology. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. If the report is or- 
 dered to be engrossed for a third reading, it 
 cannot afterwards be amended, except by 
 unanimous consent. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. The committee on Phrase- 
 ology might find it necessary to change the 
 grammatical construction of some portions of 
 it. That ought to be done before it is 
 engrossed. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would inquire if, after 
 engrossment, the rules might not be suspended 
 by a two-third vote, and amendments be 
 made. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The rule can be sus- 
 pended by a two-third vote, but. the Chair 
 has never known an instance where a bill, 
 after being engrossed for a third reading, has 
 been amended, except by unanimous consent. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I think it would be the bet- 
 ter course to refer it to the committee on 
 Arrangement and Phraseology before the 
 engrossment, if they are to have any super- 
 vision of it at all. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I withdraw my motion. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move to suspend the 
 rules so far as to permit the report to be re- 
 ferred to the committee on Arrangement and 
 Phraseology. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICII. I move to amend the 
 eighth section. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The motion to sus- 
 pend the rules has precedence. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. This report has been 
 amended but very little, (laughter) and I 
 withdraw my motion so that it can be 
 amended. * 
 
 Mr, ALDRICH. I move to amend section 
 eight by adding thereto the following : 
 
 "In all* suits at common law, where the value 
 in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the 
 right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no 
 
 fact tried by a jury shall be otherwise examined in 
 any other court in this State, than according to the 
 rules of the common law. , 
 
 Mr. MILLS. I call for the yeas and nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were not ordered. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I now move that the 
 rules be so far suspended as to allow this re- 
 port to be referred to the committee on 
 Arrangment and Phraseology. 
 
 The rules were suspended, (two-thirds 
 voting in favor thereof) and the report was 
 accordingly referred, 
 
 THE LEGISLATIVE DEPARTMENT. 
 
 On motion of Mr. COLBURN, the Con- 
 vention resolved itself into the committee of 
 the Whole, (Mr. Mantor in the chair) upon 
 the report of the committee on the Legisla- 
 tive Department, (For report see proceed- 
 ings of July twenty -third.) 
 
 The CHAIRMAN proceeded to read the 
 article by sections. 
 
 Section one was passed without amendment. 
 
 Sec. 2. The Senate shall consist of not less 
 than twenty-four, nor more than thirty -two mem- 
 bers. The House of Representatives shall consist 
 of not less than sixty-four, nor more than one 
 hundred members, 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. Mr. Chairman : It seems 
 to me there ought to be some definite num- 
 bers substituted here. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would say to the gcntle- 
 -man, that it has been customary in the Con- 
 stitutions of the Western States, to provide 
 in this way for the rapid settlement of the 
 unsettled portipns of the State. We can 
 commence with the smallest number, and the 
 Legislature may increase the number as occa- 
 sion requires, and the State becomes settled 
 in the remote localities. The committee 
 thought this would be better than to fix a 
 permanent number. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move to strike out 
 the words " thirty-two," in the second line, 
 and insert "forty-two;" also, to insert the 
 words, "and fifty," after the the word 
 " hundred," in the third line. 
 
 The motion was rejected. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I propose to amend, by 
 striking out " sixty -four," in the third line, 
 and inserting " seventy-five ; " and inserting 
 and " twenty-five," after " hundred." 
 
 Mr, COGGSWELL, I certainly do not de- 
 sire to inflict a speech upon tlie Convention, 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thubsdat, Jclt 80. 
 
 199 
 
 but I desire to make a few remarks, which, 
 to my mind, are of some little importance. 
 In foiTning a Constitution, and establishing a 
 State gmernment, to ray mind, it is necessary 
 to have an eye to what must necessarily be 
 the wants and wishes of the people. It is 
 well known that we cannot establish a pure 
 democracy — a thing which, in my judgment, 
 should be established, provided circumstan- 
 ces would admit of it. But inasmuch as we 
 are compelled to establish a representative 
 form of government, I think we should see 
 that as far as possible, every interest of the 
 people should be heard and represented in 
 our legislative halls. This thing of cutting 
 down the number of representatives, tram- 
 ples in my judgment, upon the ideas we form 
 of a pure democracy — that is, the principle, 
 that every interest and every locality of the 
 State should be heard in the legislative de- 
 partment. I am aware that of late, it has 
 been thought prudent to cut down tlie mmi- 
 ber of representatives in the popular branch 
 of the Legislature. But, in my judgment, 
 this is wrong — ^very wrong. As far as I 
 have examined the report of this committee, 
 they have followed, almost word for word, the 
 "Wisconsin Constitution in this particular; 
 and, to my knowledge, there is already con- 
 siderable complaint in that State in regard to 
 the small nimiber of representatives in the 
 popular branch of the Legislature. I do not 
 undertake to say but what one hundred mem- 
 bers in the popular branch, would represent 
 all the interests of the State at the present 
 time. But any one, knowing anything about 
 our Territory, its resources and people, must 
 know very well, that the time is not far dis- 
 tant when we shall have one hundred well 
 peopled counties ; and this cutting down the 
 number of representatives to one for each 
 county is ridiculously and palpably wrong. 
 In the New England States it is well known, 
 that every litde township has one representa- 
 tive in the popular branch of the Legislature, 
 and some towns have three or four. But 
 here, you propose to circumscribe the num- 
 ber, so that, perhaps, in a few years it will 
 require that two coimties shall be represented 
 by one member in the popular branch of the 
 Legislature, and the result will be that many 
 locahties and interests will not be represented 
 properly and fairly. Now, sir, I say we are 
 
 here for the purpose of reflecting the inter- ' 
 ests and wishes of the people, and to secure 
 this for our future legislation. It is my 
 judgment, therefore, that we should be care- 
 ful to secure a sufficient number of represen- 
 tatives to do that most thoroughly. And if 
 you cut down this number to seventy-five or 
 a hundred, in my opinion, not five years will 
 pass away, before you will hear of a Conven- 
 tion to revise the State Constitution, for the 
 reason, that interests of importance to the 
 people cannot be heard in the Legislature. 
 
 Mr. MOEJ&AN (interrupting.) The gen- 
 tleman misapprehends my amendment. ~l 
 proposed to increase the nmnber of represen- 
 tatives — the smallest number "to seventy-five, 
 and the largest to one hundred and twenty- 
 five. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Then I have misap- 
 prehended the object of the amendment. As 
 I now understand it, as fiir as it goes, it is 
 good. I could wish it went a httle further, 
 so that we might have at least one hundred 
 and fifty members of the House of Represen- 
 tatives, provided it should be the wish of the 
 people to have that nmnber, I do not say it 
 is important to have that number now ; but, 
 in my judgment, the time is not far distant, 
 when the people will require that number, in 
 order properly to represent aU their vast and 
 varied interests. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Mr. Chairman, I hope the 
 amendment will not prevail ; and, if I was not 
 so much opposed to making speeches, I would 
 make a speech on the subject. But I will 
 not, till I see it is necessary. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Sec. 3. In the year one thousand eight hun- 
 dred and sixty-five, and every te jth year thereaf- 
 ter, an enumeration of all the inhabitants of this 
 State shall be made in such manner as shall be 
 directed by law ; and in the year one thousand 
 eight hundred and sixty, and every tenth year 
 thereafter, the census taken by the authority of 
 the government of the United States shall be 
 adopted by the Legislature as the enumeration of 
 this State ; and at the first regular session of the 
 Legislature holden after the returns of each cen- 
 sus herein provided for, are made the several dis- 
 tricts for the election of senators and representa- 
 tives shall be established and apportioned by law 
 according to the number of inhabitants." 
 
 Mr. KING. Mr. Chairman, I have an 
 amendment to this section. It is to remove 
 the words "are made," from the ninth line, 
 
200 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, Jolt 80. 
 
 • and insert them in tlie eighth line after the 
 word, "returns." As it reads now it would 
 take a man of considerable skUl to make sense 
 out of it. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. Mr. Chairman, this diffi- 
 culty is all in a typographical error. Put in 
 a comma after the word " made," in the tenth 
 line, and it will be all right. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I presume all this criti- 
 cising belongs to the committee on Arrange- 
 ment and Phraseology. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Sec. 6. The senators shall also be chosen by 
 single districts of convenient contiguous territory, 
 at the same time that the members of the House 
 of Representatives are required to be chosen, and 
 in the same manner, and no representative district 
 shall be divided in the formation of a senate dis- 
 trict. The senate distriots shall be numbered in 
 regular series, and the senators chosen by the dis- 
 tricts designated by odd numbers shall go out of 
 oflBce at the expiration of the first year, and the 
 senators chosen by the districts designated by 
 even numbers, shall go out of office at the expira- 
 tion of the second year ; and thereafter the scna* 
 tors shall be chosen for the term of two years, except 
 that there shall be an entire new election of all the 
 senators at the election next succeeding each new 
 apportionment provided for in the third section of 
 this article. 
 
 Mr, KIN-G. Mr. Chairman, I move to 
 strike out from the third line, the words, " rc- 
 " quired to be." 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. Mr. Chamnan, I pro- 
 pose to amend the fifth section, by striking 
 out all after the word " years," in the eleventh 
 line. Section three requires a new apportion- 
 ment to be made every five years ; conse- 
 quently, with this in the fifth section, the 
 term for Senators would be short in a great 
 many cases. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I wiU state the reason why 
 the section was put into that form. There 
 was considsrable discussion of that point in 
 tlie committee, and there were scvcml mem- 
 bers who thought there would be difficulty, 
 after a new apportionment, in knowing what 
 Senators were to hold over, or who to elect, 
 where senatorial districts might be cut up by 
 the new apportionment, and to know how to 
 arrange and calculate the representation under 
 the new apportioinnent — some Senators hold- 
 ing over and others not. My own opinion 
 was, that it could be done without having 
 an entire new election. Other member« 
 
 thought otherwise; and for the purpose of 
 obviating the difficulty, the report was put 
 into the foi-m it is. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Sec. C. The first session of the Legislature 
 after the adoption of this Constitution, and each 
 session immediately succeeding the return of the 
 census provided for in this article, shall not ex- 
 tend beyond the term of ninety days. No other 
 regular session shall extend beyond the term of 
 sixty days, nor any special session beyond the 
 term of forty days. The Legislature shall meet 
 at the seat of government on the first Wednesday 
 in January in each year, and not oftener unless 
 convehed by the Governor. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. Mr. Chairman, I move to 
 strike out " sixty," in the fifth line, and in- 
 sert " seventy-five." I do not think sixty 
 days sufficient time for the regular session of 
 the Legislature. I know that here in tliis 
 Territory sixty days has been found rather 
 short. The business has been very much 
 hurried toward the close of the session. I do 
 not think the public good will be subserved 
 by this restriction, and I therefore propose 
 seventy-five days. If the business can bo 
 done in less time, of course it will be all the 
 better. But I apprehend, that by hurrying 
 through the business of legislation, the State 
 will lose a great deal more than it wiU gain by 
 restricting the time of the session. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Mr. Chairman, I wUl state 
 the reasons that actuated the committee in 
 thus fixing the time. It has been generally 
 known, that since this Territory commenced 
 its Territorial existence, a large share of the 
 sessions of the Legislature have been spent 
 otherwise than in the enactment of laws and 
 attending to the business legitimately before 
 them. It has not unfrequently happened, 
 that the Legislature has occupied its two 
 weeks in organizing. It was because too 
 much time had been given away in this man- 
 ner, and in view of the importance of organ- 
 izing on the first day of the session as we did 
 here, and as I hope Republicans will always 
 be inclined to do — that it was thought best 
 to luuit the regular sessions to sixty days. 
 This will give an abundance of time, if it is 
 improved properly. In Connecticut where 
 they Imve the very large representation re- 
 ferred to, they only have about a four vrceks 
 session. It seems to me that sixty days for 
 the regular session, and ninety days when 
 there is an apportionment, is ample time. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thubsday, July 30. 
 
 201 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. It seems to me that sixty- 
 days will be sufficient time. I believe, if we 
 were limited to a hundred days, there would 
 be foimd many persons to desire a hundred 
 and fifty. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. In Illinois the sessions 
 are limited to forty days, including Simdays, 
 yet they generally manage to get through. In 
 the State of Rhode Island, also, they get 
 through in a much less time. 
 
 Mr. MURPHY. It is useless to extend 
 the time, Mr. Chairman. If they can't get 
 through in sixty days, let us have another set 
 of men. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Sec. 9. Each House mar determine the rules 
 of its own proceedings, punish for contempt or 
 disorderly behavior, and with the concurrence of 
 two-thirds of all the members elected, expel a 
 member ; but no member shall be expelled a sec- 
 end time for the same cause. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I would inquire of the 
 Chairman of the committee, what is to be 
 imderstood by this " second time ?" 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I suppose it means simply, 
 in a case where a member has been expelled 
 and sent home, if the people elect him again, 
 it would not be constitutional to turn him out 
 the second time. Joshua R. Giddings, an 
 Ohio Congressman, was once sent home to 
 his constituents, and they sent him back 
 again. 
 
 :Mr. COGGSWELL. So in the case of 
 Brooks. (Laughter). 
 
 Sec. 11. Each House shall keep a Journal of its 
 proceedings and shall publish the same, except 
 such parts as require secrecy. The doors of each 
 House shall be kept open except when the public 
 welfare requires secrecy. Xeither House shall, 
 without the consent of the other, adjourn for more 
 than three days. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. Mr. Chairman, what are 
 we to imderstand by these words, " shall 
 " publish the same ?" It is doubtful whether 
 it is to be imderstood that the journal of each 
 House is to be published at the public ex- 
 pense ; or whether it shall be a mere journal 
 kept for pubhc inspection. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I suppose it means, that 
 the Legislature do as they see fit in the mat- 
 ter of printing. It will be expected that their 
 journal will be published, at least, in the pa- 
 per employed to do the printing. It was not 
 a matter thought of very minutely in the 
 committee, but that was the impression. 
 26 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. We ha'^e already a law 
 for the pubUcation and distribution of the 
 laws. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. It has been usual for the 
 newspapers to publish sketches of the pro- 
 ceedings of the Legislatiure ; but as for the 
 publication of the journal, I believe that never 
 has been done. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Yes sir, they "are published 
 in pamphlet form every year — ^about two 
 thousand copies. You can supply yourself 
 below. 
 
 Sec. 16. Xo member of the Legislature shall 
 be liable in any civil action or criminal prosecu- 
 tion whatever for words spoken in debate. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move to strike out 
 section sixteen. 
 
 The motion was rejected. 
 
 Sec. 22i A majority of all the members elected 
 to each House shall be necessary to pass every bU 
 or joint resolution, and all bills or joint resolutions 
 shall be signed by the presiding officers of the 
 respective Houses. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Mr. Chairhax : I move 
 that section be stricken out ; and I will give 
 briefly the reasons I have for making the 
 motion. It is an unusual provision to require 
 that there shall be a majority of all the mem- 
 bers elected to the House, to pass a bill , and 
 it seems to me an unreasonable one. For 
 instance, if a third or quarter part of the 
 members elected do not see fit to take their 
 places in the Legislature, it would require a 
 clear majority of the members, who were qual- 
 ified members of the Legislature, to pass a bill. 
 Again, I object to the section on account of 
 the last provision, which requires that every 
 bill or joint resolution shall be,signed by the 
 presiding officers of the two houses. I think 
 that should be left to the two Houses them- 
 selves. The signatures of the presiding 
 officers are no part of the bills. They are 
 merely a method of authenticating the bills, 
 or of proving to the Governor that they have 
 been passed ; and I think it is a matter that 
 should be left to each House to determine by 
 its own rules. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I hope the section will be 
 stricken out. It is an unusual and imwise 
 provision to give power into the hands 
 of a minority to distract and prevent pro- 
 ceedings by withdrawing from the Legisla- 
 ture. I remember a case in the New York 
 Legislature, where the canal works of that 
 
-^02 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, July CO. 
 
 State were thrown back a whole year by 
 members withdrawing themselves from the 
 House. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I think if gentlemen 
 win read the section once more, they will 
 dismiss their objections. It says : 
 
 " A majority of the members elected shall be 
 necessary to pass every bill or joint resolution." 
 
 — It does not say they shall vote for it. It 
 does not say it shall take more than a majority 
 •of all the members present, but that it shall 
 require a clear working majority of all the 
 members elected to be present, and a majority 
 of those present voting for the measure. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. If that is the interpreta- 
 tion, I shall vote against it as unnecessary ; 
 for it always requires a quorum to do busi- 
 ness. But then the section does not require 
 a majority of all the members elected to vote 
 for the bill. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. The reason why that 
 section was incorporated there, was to pro- 
 vide against a case like this : where certain 
 members do not happen to be present, and a 
 certain portion of the body do not desire their 
 presence, a member gets up and asks that a 
 member be excused, and the Chair thereupon 
 deciding that a majority of the members 
 acting and present can go on and do business. 
 It is to provide against that. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. If the gentleman who 
 last spoke (Mr. Staxnard) truly represented 
 ■the section, it would seem that it should be 
 retained ; for it would induce members to be 
 ■careful to'be present. But suppose the same 
 .principle were applied to this Convention, we 
 would have to* be very constant in our atten- 
 tion here — much more than we have been. 
 But suppose, again, that a portion of the 
 members of the Legislature should withdraw 
 accidentally, it is manifest that a strict en- 
 forcement of the rule would retard business. 
 The principle appplied to this Convention 
 would certainly operate badly. I see no 
 advantage in it. 
 
 Mr, STANNARD. I certainly cannot vote 
 for the report, unless the Convention will fix 
 the quorum. I do not want to fly the track. 
 All I ask is to say that a quorum shall be a 
 majority of the members elected. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. If the gentleman will 
 look at section cightli, he will find a quorum 
 provided for. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I would like to hear again 
 whether I understand the gentleman on my 
 left, (Mr. Standard) whether it requires a 
 majority of all the members elected to pass a 
 bill, or a majority to be present. I think, 
 from the reading, that it re(|uires a majority 
 to vote for the bill. I would not say cer- 
 tainly either way, but I think so. 
 
 The section was stricken out. 
 
 Sec. 23. Every bill and joint resolution, except 
 of adjournment, passed by the Legislature, sliall 
 be presented to the Governor before it becomes a 
 law. If he approve he shall sign it ; but if not, he 
 shall return it with his objections to the House in 
 which it originated, which shall enter the objection 
 at large upon its journal, and reconsider it. On 
 such reconsideration, if two-thirds of the members 
 elected agree to pass the bill, it shall be sent with 
 the objections to the other House by which it shall 
 be reconsidered. If approved by two-thirds of 
 the members of that House, it shall become a law. 
 In such case the vote of both Houses shall be de- 
 termined by the yeas and nays, and the names of 
 the members voting for or against the bill shall be 
 entered on the journals of each House respectively. 
 If any bill be not returned by the Governor within 
 three days, (Sundays excepted) after it has been 
 presented to him, the same shall become a law in 
 like manner as if he had signed it, unless the lA'g- 
 islature, by their adjournment prevent its return, 
 in which case it shall not become a law. The Gov- 
 ernor may approve, sign, and file in the oihce of 
 the Secretary of State within three days alter the 
 adjournment of the Legislature, any act passed 
 during the last three days of the session, and the 
 same shall become a law. 
 
 Mr. BOBBINS. I move to strike out that 
 section. It seems to me that the subject 
 matter of it will come in more appropriately 
 in the report on the Executive Department. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I would ask the gentle- 
 man to modify his motion so as to strike out 
 all except the four last lines. That provision 
 does not belong to the Ecxecutive Depart- 
 ment. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would inquire of the -eii- 
 tlenian, if that part of this section wliich 
 controls the action of each House, ouglil to 
 be in the report on the Executive Department ? 
 It says : 
 
 " In such case the vote of both Houses shall be 
 determined by the ycas'and nays, and the names 
 of the members voting for and against the bill 
 shall be entered on tlie journals of earh Hduse 
 respectively." 
 
 — It seems to mo that there is so much of 
 this section wiiich applies to and controls the 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tutbsdat, July 30. 
 
 20a> 
 
 action of the Legislature, that its proper place 
 is in the report upon the L<^.?lative Depart- 
 ment. I therefore object to its being stricken 
 out. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I was one of the com- 
 mittee that made the report upon the Execu- 
 tive Department, and upon consideration I 
 think this section belongs to the Lc^lative 
 Department of the Goveiimient, that the ac- 
 tion of the government in this respect is legis- 
 lative action and not executive ; and hence 
 that is now in its proper place. If we re- 
 tain it here, tte committee on arrangement 
 will strike it out from the other bUl. Besides, 
 the last clause of this section is not in the re- 
 port on the other department. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. Every bill and resolution 
 must originate in the legislative body, and it 
 seems to me that everything which relates to 
 the perfection of the^se bills and resolutiens 
 into laws, properly belong to- the Legislative 
 Department. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I consider the clause 
 with respect to a two-third vote, is but a qual- 
 ification of the veto power, which belongs to 
 the Executive. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. There is one reason why 
 I want it stricken out here, and why I prefer 
 that in the report on the Executive. It says 
 here " if two-thirds of the members elected 
 " agree to pass the bill- it shall be sent, &c." 
 Now I do not want to make that provision so 
 stringent as to require two-thirds of the 
 members elected. , 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I think that upon reflection 
 the gentleman from Chisago Covmty (Mr. 
 Stannabd) will come to the conclusion that 
 this provides more for legislation, than for the 
 veto power. It presents the manner in which 
 a bill is to become a law when an objection Ls 
 made to it by the Governor. Therefore I 
 tlunk it belong here. As to the objection 
 raised by the gentleman from "Winona, (Mr. 
 WiLSOs) for myself I think it is none too 
 stringent. 
 
 The committee refused to strike out the 
 section. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I move to strike out the 
 word " three" in the thirteenth line and in- 
 sert the word " ten." 
 
 Mr. ^ViDRICH. I hope that amendment 
 will not prevail. That matter was discussed 
 in the committee and they come to the con- 
 
 clusion that three days was giving sufficient 
 time. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. Pretty much all the 
 business of legislation is done within the last 
 ten days, and the Governor might pocket 
 every bill passed, if you adopt this amend- 
 ment. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 ilr. PECHAM. I move to strike out the 
 word " elected" in the sixth line and insert 
 the word " present." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. 25. Every statute shall be a public law 
 unless otherwise declared in the statute itself." 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I would hke to hear 
 some member of the Convention explain the 
 meaning of that section. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Private bills are not always 
 called public laws and sometimes there are 
 legislative provisions which require public 
 laws to be published before they take eifect. 
 
 Judges are also required to take notice of 
 public laws, but not private statutes, unless" 
 they are pleaded. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. That it was found in 
 other Constitutions, and therefore should be 
 placed in here, is the best reason I have yet 
 heard. Now I have read Greenleaf, Starkey, 
 and other old authors, as well as the gentle- 
 man from Rice County, and I say that the 
 only eflFect of this section will be to alter the 
 old common law rule in regard to certain 
 matters connected with evidence. Now if we 
 are going to avoid everything which looks 
 like legislation, as many gentlemen strenu- 
 ously contend we shall, let us not alter the 
 principles of common law in that respect. I 
 am in favor of striking out the section. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN (interrupting). I riseta 
 a point of order. There Ls no question be- 
 fore the House. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I suggest if the gwitleman 
 wants it stricken out, he make a motion to 
 that effect, and let us talk to something. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I do not make tlie 
 motion. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Then I object to the gentle- 
 man's proceeding. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. If it is in other Con- 
 stitutions, I want it in ours. (Laughter). 
 
 " Sec. 27. Each member of the Legislature 
 shall receive for his services three dollars for each 
 day's attendance during the session, and ten cents 
 for ev£ry mile he shall travel in going to and re- 
 
204 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thuesday, Jitly 30. 
 
 turning from the place of the meeting of the Le- 
 gislature on the most usual route." 
 
 Mr. COG GS WELL. I move to amend by 
 striking out "three" and inserting " four." 
 That is small pay enough if you have any- 
 thing like decent men for Legislators. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move to strike out all 
 after the word " services" and insert in lieu 
 thereof the words " and travel such compen- 
 " sation as shall be provided by law," so that 
 the section shall read — 
 
 "Each member of the Legislature shall receive 
 for his services and travel such compensation as 
 shall be provided by law." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. 31. The Legislature shall not establish 
 a State Paper. Every newspaper in the State 
 which shall publish the general laws of a session 
 within forty days of their passage shall be entitled 
 to receive a sura not exceeding fifteen dollars 
 therefor." 
 
 Mr. RUSSELL. I move to strike out that 
 section and insert the following substitute : 
 
 "The Legislature shall not establish a State pa- 
 per. Any two papers having the largest circula- 
 tion within the county where printed, which shall 
 publish the general laws of the legislative session 
 within three months after their passage, shall be 
 entitled to receive therefor the sum of one dollar 
 for each thousand ems." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the amendment 
 will not be adopted, and that this section will 
 be stricken out entirely. I do not see the 
 necessity of binding up the Legislature in 
 this way. This does not provide any way 
 whereby the laws can be published, unless by 
 a voluntary publication on the part of the 
 different papers of the State. Suppose no 
 paper does publish them, then the Legisla- 
 ture are prohibited from procuring their pub- 
 lication. I would leave it for the Legislature 
 to determine the matter for themselves. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move that the section 
 be stricken out. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 "Sec. 82. The Legislature may submit to the 
 people any Act for their ratification or rejection, 
 and such act so submitted shall, if approved by a 
 majority of the legal voters at the appointed elec- 
 tion, become a law." 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move to strike out 
 l\iat section. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I hope that motion will 
 not prevail. It is frequently desirable to sub- 
 mit certain questions to the people, and the 
 will of the people should be the law. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the section will 
 not be stricken out. It has been decided re- 
 peatedly that where there is no such pro- 
 vision, it is unconstitutional to submit laws 
 to the people. It has been decided the other 
 way too, I believe. To make the matter sure, 
 I am in favor of allowing the section to stand 
 as it is. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. In Michigan, four judges 
 of the Supreme Court held that it was Con- 
 stitutional, and four judges held that it was 
 not. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. The question has been 
 mooted in several of the States. In Massa- 
 chusetts a long discussion was had upon the 
 same question, and to remove all doubt I 
 hope the section will be retained. 
 
 Mr. MURPHY. I hope the section will be 
 retained. We have had the matter tried in 
 this TeiTitory. The Maine liquor law, as it 
 is called, was submitted to the people, and 
 the judges decided that such a submission 
 was unconstitutional. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. The subject was dis- 
 cussed in the Massachusetts Legislature, and 
 it was contended by some that the people had 
 no power to pass a law submitted to their ac- 
 tion, in the absence of any provision in the 
 Constitution, authorizing such submission. 
 
 Mr. KING. I move to amend the section 
 by striking out the words " legal votes," and 
 inserting in lieu thereof, the words " voters 
 voting " The word " legal voters " might be 
 construed to mean the voters in the Territory, 
 and if a majority did not vote, it would not 
 become a law. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. There can be no doubt 
 but that this section is declaratory of a doubt- 
 fUl legal question. I know there was consid- 
 erable trouble over the matter in Vermont, 
 but it was there finally decided that a ques- 
 tion might be submitted to the people. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. This question has arisen 
 upon a great many different subjects. There 
 are many subjects which Legislatures gene- 
 rally refer to the decision of the people. It 
 is not uncommon that banking laws arc sub- 
 mitted to the people. Such is the case in 
 Wisconsin. Schoollaws arc also frequently 
 
MINNESOTACOXVEXTION DEBATES— Thubsdat, July SO. 
 
 205 
 
 submitted. It is also quite common for Le- 
 gislatures to delegate certain powers to coun- 
 ties, and they are allowed to vote upon the 
 location of the coimty seat. Boards of Su- 
 pervisors are also frequently clothed with 
 certain powers, and they, in turn, submit the 
 question to the people for their action. Now 
 if there is to be a question about the Consti- 
 tutionality of that kind of legislation, which 
 may cause litigation for years, and great 
 expense and inconvenience, it would be well 
 to settle it here. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I do not profess to under- 
 stand the question of the Constitutionality or 
 unconstitutionaUty of this matter, but it does 
 seem to me that to refer a question to the 
 people is Democratic and Republican. Now 
 I am not in favor of calling the people out to 
 vote upon a question, when it will do no good, 
 and only result in squandering their time and 
 money. I was once called out to vote upon 
 a question submitted to the people, and the 
 judges afterwards decided that the people of 
 the Territory, as a people, had no right to pass 
 a law : that the Legislature were the only law 
 making power. If, in the future legislation 
 of our State, it is thought best to submit a 
 measure to the people for their approval, I 
 hold that we should have a clause in our 
 Constitution, making such a submission valid. 
 
 Mr. STAXXARD. I have taken a great 
 deal of interest in reading the reports, not 
 only of Vermont and Massachusetts, but of 
 our own Territory, on this question. In 
 those reports, the principles of our govern- 
 ment were pretty thoroughly discussed. TTe 
 are not so pure a Democracy as many per- 
 sons imagine. Our government is a medium 
 between aristocracy and democracy. The 
 people are supposed to choose the best men 
 to make laws for them, and in that respect 
 our government is more of an aristocracy 
 than a democracy. It has been decided that 
 the Executive and the Legislature are the 
 only law making powers. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. That is the veiy reason 
 why we need such a provision as this. It 
 very frequently happens that the Legislature 
 is called upon to legislate upon important 
 matters, in reference to which they were not 
 elected. They, in their discretion, refer the 
 matter to the people and ask them to decide 
 upon it. The people decide it, and then some 
 
 judge says to the people : " you have no busi- 
 ness to pass upon such a matter, for it is un- 
 constitutional." Now it seems to me that 
 such is not the treatment which the people 
 should receive, and there should be some pro- 
 vision to guard against its recurrence. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 The question recurring on the motion to 
 strike out the section, it was put and decided 
 in the negative. 
 
 "Sec. 35. The Legislature shall determine 
 what persons shall constitute the Militia of the 
 State, and mar provide for organizing and disci- 
 plining the same in such manner as shall be pre- 
 scribed bj law." 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move to strike out 
 that section. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I hope the motion will 
 prevail, as that matter properly belongs to the 
 committee upon the Militia. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I am surprised to hear such 
 a motion as that come from a member of the 
 committee on the Militia. 
 
 Mr. COLBLTIN. The committee on the 
 Militia propose to introduce a better provision 
 than that. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I should like to see what 
 the provision is, before tiiis section is stricken 
 out. 
 
 The motion to strike out was agreed to. ^ 
 
 " Sec. 36. The Legislature may contract debts 
 to meet casual deficits or failures in the revenue, 
 but such debts direct or contingent, singly or in 
 the aggregate, shall not at any time exceed five 
 hundred thousand dollars ; andt he moneys arising 
 from loans creating such debts shall be applied to 
 the purposes for which they were obtained, or to 
 pay such debts ; Provided, that the State may con- 
 tract debts to repel invasion, suppress insurrection, 
 or if hostilities are threatened, provide for the 
 public defense." 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move to strike out 
 that section for the reason, that the subject 
 matter belongs to the committee upon Pi- 
 nance and Public Debt. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. Also to the committee 
 upon Internal Improvements. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. THOMPSON. I beUeve the bill has 
 now been read through. I desire to offer an 
 amendment to section two, to strike out the 
 words " sixty-four," and insert " fifty," so as 
 to provide that the House of Representatives 
 shall consist of not less than fifty members, 
 nor more than one hundred. 
 
206 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tiilrsday, July 30. 
 
 The amendment was not aiiveed to. 
 
 Ml". COLBURN. I move to amend section 
 two, by inserting " and twenty-five," after the 
 word " hundred," so as to provide that the 
 House shall not consist of more than one 
 hundred and twenty-five members. I do not 
 ofFer^this because I desire so large a House 
 at present, but the time may come before the 
 people will want to alter this Constitution, 
 when they will actually demand a larger num- 
 ber of Representatives. This number is not 
 materially larger, and I can see no objection 
 to adding it, because if the people do not 
 demand an increase of members, the Legisla- 
 ture will not provide for it. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. The great State of New 
 York has had but one hundred and twenty- 
 eight members in their House of Represen- 
 tatives, although she has a population of over 
 two millions, and I think we can get along 
 with a hundred. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. But the little State of 
 Massachusetts has a House of over three 
 hundred members. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. There are not as many 
 counties in the State of New York, as there 
 are in this Territory now. There will be a 
 great many counties in this State with a 
 sparse population, and I think it will be found 
 V necessary, in order to have a fair representa- 
 tion to have a large popular branch. I am 
 decidedly in favor of increasing the number 
 to one hundred and twenty -five. If the State 
 does not wish so large a popular branch, the 
 Legislature will not provide for it. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. In the State of Illinois 
 it is provided that the Senate shall consist of 
 twenty-five, and the House of Representatives 
 of seventy-five members until the population 
 shall amount to one million, and that the pop- 
 ular V)ranch shall not then exceed one hun- 
 dred members. That State has one hundred 
 counties. I am in favor of as small a num- 
 ber as can be got along with. I think it will 
 not be many years before a larger number will 
 be required than is provided for in the report. 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 Mr. CLEGIIORN. I offer the following 
 as an additional section : 
 
 "Sbc. — . Divorces shall not be granted by the 
 Legislature." 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I hope that will be adop- 
 ted. It certainly is a good provision. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move to amend by 
 adding thereto the words, " in this State." 
 
 Mr. CLEGIIORN. I accept that as a mod- 
 ification of my amendment. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I am in favor of the 
 amendment. It seems to me that the propri- 
 ety of the thing will suggest itself to every 
 one who thinks candidly upon the subject. 
 It has been the habit of the Legislature to 
 devote almost all its time to cases of divorce, 
 and all who are able to come here and log- 
 roll, can get divorces. 
 
 Mr.. MURPHY. I hope the section will bo- 
 adopted. A case occurred in this Territory 
 in which the Legislature one winter granted 
 a bill of divorce ; the next summer the parties 
 were married again, and the next winter 
 they came to the Legislature and got another 
 divorce. Our Legislatures have been con- 
 stantly troubled with these matters. We 
 have now a very liberal law upon this subject^ 
 and I hope the matter will be taken out of 
 the hands of the Legislature. 
 
 The section was adopted. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move to add to, 
 section four these words : 
 
 " Provided that nothing in this section shall be- 
 so construed as to interfere with the manner of 
 electing Representatives to the first Legislature to 
 be convened under this Constitution." 
 
 Mr.BALCOMBE. I cannot see the pro- 
 priety of inserting anj^thing of that kind into< 
 the body of the Constitution. When we 
 come to frame the schedule all matters per- 
 taining to the transition state will be provided 
 for. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I believe the amend- 
 ment is not properly before the committee, as 
 it has not been reduced to writing. I move 
 to amend the same section by striking out the 
 word, " October," and inserting "November," 
 so as to provide that the election of mem beas 
 of the House of Representatives shall ho 
 on the Tuesday succeeding the first .Momluy 
 of November instead of October. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I hope the amendment 
 will ivot prevail. If we a\ cic situated as some 
 Territories are, I should bo in favor of the 
 change. But we have a large population who 
 annually go into the woods a logging. If our 
 election is put off until November, we de- 
 prive them of the privilege of voting. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. And we have many in 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, Jcly 30. 
 
 20T 
 
 the southern part of the Territory who are 
 threshing buckwheat about that time. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. These men go into the 
 woods three hundred miles away, and it is 
 not so convenient quite for them to get to the 
 polls, as it is for the gentleman's constituents 
 who are threshing buckwheat. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. That subject was considered 
 in the committee, and one member of the 
 committee said that in his section of the Ter- 
 ritory there are something like two thousand 
 men who go into the woods logging early in 
 the fell, beyond the reach of voting precincts. 
 They would be deprived of the privilege of 
 voting if this amendment should prevail. 
 That is a matter of some importance, and an 
 interest we ought to consider. On that 
 account it was, that the statutes of our Terri- 
 tory have heretofore fixed the time in Octo- 
 ber, and it was this reason which induced the 
 committee to determine upon that time. 
 
 Mr. MURPHY. We have m St. Anthony 
 fi-om one hundred and fifty to two hundred 
 persons who go to the pineries every fall, all 
 of whom are Republicans. I have known 
 them to delay their departure a week, or two 
 weeks, in order to deposit their votes. But 
 rf the time of election is put off until Novem- 
 ber, we shall lose from one to three hundred 
 votes. We should lose in Minneapolis to 
 about the same extent. It would be more of 
 an injury to St. Antliony and St. Croix than 
 to any other part of the Territory. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. My remark in reference 
 to threshing buckwheat was but a jest to 
 off'set a previous remai'k made by another 
 gentleman. If there is an}- force in the argu- 
 ment that we shall poll less votes, I do not 
 know that it necessarily follows that the Re- 
 publicans in particular wiU lose by it, for I 
 presume that the class of persons who go into 
 woods are both Democrats and Republi- 
 cans, 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Is it right to deprive two 
 or three thousand voters of their votes ? 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I say no, but the same 
 argument which applies to this case would 
 apply to the fixing of any other special time. 
 To fix the day for October would deprive 
 many others and a different class of men, of 
 their votes, because navigation is not then 
 closed. You can fix no day but what some 
 must be necessarily absent from the polls. 
 
 October is just the time of the year when our 
 merchants, in the southern part of the Terri- 
 tory, go east to purchase goods. A consider- 
 ation in favor of November, is, that that is 
 the time for the Presidential election, and we 
 should get a larger vote for our State ticket, 
 when that election comes at the same time 
 \rith the Presidential election. Men get 
 warmed up at that time, and if they are good 
 Republicans,* they will not go into the woods 
 until after that time. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. There is a very large 
 class in this Territory who are engaged annu- 
 ally in lumbering, and the lumbering interest 
 is a very important one. It not only benefits 
 those immediately engaged in it, but the ben- 
 efits of that trade extend over the whole Ter- 
 ritory, and the whole length and breadth of 
 the land ; and in the prosecution of that busi- 
 ness it is absolutely necessary that about the 
 time tliis election is held, that they should go 
 hundreds of miles away. I hope the amend- 
 ment wiU not prevail. 
 
 Gentlemen have used the term " republi- 
 can." I do not consider that this Convention 
 is making provisions for Republicans, but for 
 the voters of the Territory, no matter which 
 way they vote. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. THOMPSON. I move that the com- 
 mittee rise and report the report back to the 
 Convention with a recommendation that the 
 amendments of the commtttee be concur- 
 red in. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The committee accordingly rose and re- 
 ported the report with the recommendation 
 that the amendments of the committee be 
 concurred in. 
 
 Mr. KING (at five o'clock and thirty min- 
 utes) moved that the Convention adjourn. 
 
 The motion was lost. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I move that the report 
 be laid on the table. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MURPHY. I move that the Conven- 
 tion adjourn. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I move that the Convention 
 now proceed to act upon the amendments 
 recommended by the committee of the 
 Whole. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
208 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thuesdat, July 80. 
 
 The several amendments were then taken 
 up and disposed of as follows : 
 
 ''First Amendment. — Strike out section twenty- 
 two." 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 ''Second Aine7idment. — Section twenty-three, line 
 six, strike out 'elected,' and insert 'present,' 
 and insert the word 'present' after the word 
 ' members ' in the ninth line." 
 
 The amendment was conciured in. 
 
 Third Amendment — Section twenty-seven after 
 the word 'services,' insert 'and travel such 
 compensation as shall be provided by law,' and 
 strike out the balance of the section." 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 
 "Fourth Ameiidm^it. — Strike out section thir- 
 ty-one." 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I hope that amendment 
 will not be concurred in. I am in faVor of 
 the poor people of the State receiving the laws 
 of the land through the newspapers. There 
 is hardly a head of a family in the State but 
 what lakes a weekly paper. If the laws are 
 printed in the weekly papers, a knowledge of 
 our laws will be spread throughout the whole 
 country. If you print them in a calf bound 
 volume, the poor people will not be able to 
 buy them. Let the German, the Sweedc, the 
 Norwegian and all have the privilege of read- 
 ing these laws, in a cheap form. That is the 
 easiest and most correct mode of dififusing 
 this knowledge, 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. The result under this 
 section would be that no paper would publish 
 the laws, as they could not afford to do it for 
 the compensation proposed. 
 
 The recommendation of the committee of 
 the Wbole was concurred in, and the section 
 was stricken out. 
 
 "Fifth Am,endment. — Strike out section thirty- 
 five, relating to the militia." 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 
 " Sixth Amendm,ent. — Add the following addi- 
 tional section : 
 
 " Sec. — . Divorces shall not be granted by the 
 Legislature in this State." 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move to amend the 
 additional section which has just been adopted 
 by adding thereto the words, " except in cases 
 •' not cognizable by the Courts." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the amendment 
 will not prevail. I cannot conceive of a case 
 
 which cannot come before the Courts. The 
 Legislature, of course, will pass such laws as 
 they see fit upon the subject. They will pro- 
 vide in what cases divorces may be granted, 
 and in what Courts they may be granted. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. The only divorce biU 
 which passed the Legislature last winter was 
 a case, which, from its peculiar circumstances, 
 could not have been cognizable by the 
 Courts. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. There were no Courts at 
 that time, and the Legislature granted the di- 
 vorce, as there would otherwise have been 
 unreasonable delay under the circumstances. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I move the foUowing 
 as an additional section : 
 
 " Sec. — . No new bill shall be introduced into 
 either House during the last three days of the 
 session, without the unanimous jconsent of the 
 House in which it originated." 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I move to strike out of 
 section four the words " on the Tuesday suc- 
 " ceeding the first Monday of October by the 
 " qualified electors of the several districts." 
 
 My object in moving the amendment is to 
 leave the matter to the Legislature hereafter, 
 to fix the time of election. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. That will obviate the 
 objections which have been made to this sec- 
 tion, and will satisfy all, so far as the Consti- 
 tution is concerned. 
 
 I hope the amendment will not prevaiL 
 Ever since I have been in the Territory, the 
 day of election has been that which is speci- 
 fied in this section. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. There must be a difference 
 of opinion on this matter. The idea, I think, 
 is a good one, to leave it with the Legislature 
 to fix the day. That will avoid any conflict 
 of opinion on that point when we get before 
 the people witli the Constitution. 
 
 Another thing. If we fix the day at all, 
 we should have it in a separate article, and 
 submit the question to the people. 
 
 The amendment was not agi'ccd to. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I offer the following 
 section : 
 
 Sec. — A majority of all the members elected 
 shall constitute a quorm in either branch of the 
 Legislature." 
 
 Mr. IIUDSON. That provision is already 
 contained in the eighth section. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, July 31. 
 
 203 
 
 Mr. STAN^NARD. That section says a 
 majority of each House, and that is the rea- 
 son why I want my amendment adopted. I 
 want a quorxim to consist of a majority of all 
 the members elected, and not a majority of 
 those who happen to be present I do not 
 want a few members to come in and organ- 
 ize the House in the absence of all the rest. 
 I cannot vote for a Constitution unless a pro- 
 vision similar to mine is in it. I insist that 
 a majority of the members elected to any de- 
 Hberative body should constitute a quomm. 
 It is a question which ought not to be left 
 open to the opinion of this man or that, but 
 should be fixed and certain. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I conceive that the word 
 " majority" means a majority of the mem- 
 bers sworn in. The section says, a majority 
 of each House, not a majority of those pres- 
 ent. There can be no other meaning at- 
 tached to it, for we firequently find ourselves 
 without a quorum, which is, less than a ma- 
 o rity of the members sworn in. 
 
 Mr. STAN'NAED. My amendment is de- 
 signed to take the place of section twenty- 
 two. It is nothing but just and fair, I would 
 ask for nothing more. I remember one in- 
 stance last winter in which the Speaker of 
 the House — a very able parliamentarian too 
 — decided that nineteen was a majority of 
 thirty-nine members. "NVhy? Because one 
 member was not here and another member 
 had been excused. , A precedent for such a 
 decision as that carmot be fotmd in any work 
 upon parliamentary law in the United States 
 or En^and. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the amendment 
 will not prevail. This amendment if adopted, 
 will allow a minority, by remaining out of 
 either House, and refusing to be sworn in, to 
 compel the attendence, and constantly per- 
 haps, of aU the other members — a case simi- 
 lar to what we saw at the commencemoat of 
 this Convention. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. THOMPSON. I move that the rule 
 be so far suspended as to allow the report to 
 be referred to the committee on Arrangment 
 and Phraseology. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I hope that will not b« 
 done. We have looked over this report very 
 hastily and only this afternoon. It will not 
 27 
 
 delay business at all if we let it lie over untfl 
 to-morrow. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I think the report is in 
 much better shape than if we had been spend- 
 ing three days upon it. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I hope the motion will 
 prevail, for I do not want any more discussion 
 on this report 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the report 
 was referred to the committee on Arrange- 
 ment and Phraseology. 
 
 Then on motion of Mr. RUSSELL (at six 
 o'clock) the Convention adjourned. 
 
 SEVEN-TEENTTH DAY. 
 
 Fridat, July 31st, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. '». 
 The journal of yesterday was read and 
 approved. 
 
 THE ST. AXTHOKY DELEGATES. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I rise, Mr. President, to 
 a question of privilege. I hold in my hand a 
 copy of the St. Paul Weekly Pioneer <fe Deny- 
 ocrat, and the supplement to the same, con- 
 taining an account of the proceedings of an 
 organized meeting now in session in this city, 
 in the other end of the Capitol, amongst 
 which proceedings I find the following pre- 
 amble and resolutions : 
 
 Whkreajs, There is official evidence, from the 
 report of the committee on Credentials, that there 
 is a majority of the legally elected members to the 
 Constitntional Convention who claim and are en- 
 titled to seats in this Convention ; and, 
 
 Whebbas, The members ascertained to be legallj 
 elected, from the official docoments before this 
 Convention, represent more than sixteen hundred 
 majority of the popular vote of the Territory ; 
 and. 
 
 Whereas, There is now a body of men who have 
 taken possession of one of the Halls of this Cap- 
 itol and call themselves the Constitntional Con- 
 vention, without any legal authority or right, al- 
 though some of those connected with that assem- 
 blage may be entitled to seats in this Convention, 
 tion, but who have not seen proper, as yet, to pre- 
 sent their credentials, or to attend the meetings of 
 this body, since the regular adjournment of the 
 Convention, on Monday, the 13th instant; there- 
 fore, 
 
 St^ohed, That the assemblage of persons now 
 occupying Representative Hall of this Capitol sty- 
 ling themselves the ' Constitutional Convention,' 
 is witbont the aathority of law or of Parliameo- 
 
210 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, July 31. 
 
 tary usage, and revolutionary in its character, and, 
 therefore, should not be recognized by the electors 
 of this Territory, nor by the officers of the Gene- 
 ral or Territorial Government. 
 
 Besolved, That a copy of the above preamble 
 and resolution, together with a copy of the report 
 of the committee on Credentials, be forwarded to 
 the President of the United States, each of the 
 heads of the departments of the General Govern- 
 ment, each of the members of the Senate and 
 House of Kepresentatives of the United States, 
 and to the Governor, Secretary, Marshal, Libra- 
 rian, Auditor and Treasurer of the Territory of 
 Minnesota. 
 
 Mr. President, under ordinary circumstan- 
 ces I should not deem it the duty or the pri- 
 vilege of myself, as a member of this Con- 
 vention, or of any other member of tliis Con- 
 vention to notice either newspaper articles 
 published in regard to this Convention or its 
 proceedings, or tllb ,doings of any body of 
 citizens of the Territory, either organized or 
 unorganized. But, Mr. President, I deem 
 that the proceedings to which I have referred, 
 are peculiarly a matter of privilege as relating 
 to this Convention, first from the nature of 
 the assemblage to which I have referred, and 
 second, from the peculiar nature of the pre- 
 amble and resolutions which I have read. I 
 find in this paper a list of names of the per- 
 sons who purport to be members of that as- 
 semblage, and amongst them I find the fol- 
 lowing federal officers: the Secretary and 
 acting Governor of this Territory ; one of the 
 Judges of the Supreme Court of tliis Terri- 
 tory ; one of the Indian Agents of this Ter- 
 ritory ; and one of the Custom House Officers 
 of this Territory. I also find among them 
 the names of the following Territorial oificers : 
 the Attorney General of the Territory, and 
 seven members of the present Legislative As- 
 sembly. In addition to that, I find the fol- 
 lowing ex-Federal officers : one ex-Governor ; 
 two cx-Judges of the Supreme Court of tlie 
 Territory ; one ex-delegate to Congress ; one 
 ex-Custom House Officer, and one ex-Land 
 Officer ; besides all those I find the following 
 ex-Territorial officers : one ex-Tcrritorial Trea- 
 surer ; two ex-Probate Judges, and nine ex- 
 Members of the Legislative Assembly. In 
 all, constituting twenty-six members, out of 
 the fifty-four who purport to be members of 
 that meeting, representing every branch of tlie 
 Government of this Temtory — the Execu- 
 tive, the Judicial and the Legislative. 
 
 It seems to me, therefore, that the assem- 
 blage to which I have alluded, and whose 
 proceedings I propose to consider, possess 
 more than ordinary interest. In the second 
 place, the nature of the proceedings to which 
 I have alluded, it seems to me, calls especial- 
 ly for the consideration of this Convention. 
 Here is a declaration by a body of individu- 
 als, constituted, as I have shown, of the va- 
 rious Federal and Territorial officers of this 
 Territory, to a very gi'cat extent, that this 
 Convention is here met without the authority 
 of law or parliamentary usage, that it is rev- 
 olutionary in its character, and recommend- 
 ing that it should not be recognized by tho 
 electors of this Territory, nor by the ofiiceris 
 of the general or Territorial Government ; and 
 also providing that a copy of the preamble 
 and resolutions shall be transmitted to the 
 officers of the general government — the Pres- 
 ident and Heads of Departments — to every 
 member of Congress, and to the various Ter- 
 ritorial officers of this Territory. It can 
 have, Mr. President, but one object, and that 
 is to nullify, so far as it is within the 
 power of tlie General and Territorial Govern- 
 ments, the acts of the people of the Territory 
 of Minnesota assembled by their delegates in 
 this Convention. It seems to me to indicate 
 that there is a disposition and intention on the 
 part of the national government represented 
 in that meeting by officers appointed by the 
 Federal Executive, to thwart and nullify the 
 action of this Convention authorized by the 
 action of Congress. It is also evident that 
 there is an intention and disposition upon the 
 part of the Territorial officers of this Terri- 
 tory, so far as they are concerned, to nullify 
 the action of this body. 
 
 Now I do not pj^oposo to examine into all 
 of the causes assigned by the assemblage of 
 persons to sustain the position they have 
 taken. Those causes are various, and they 
 are sent forth at large in the speeches wliich 
 accompany the preamble and resolution, and 
 have been more or less treated on in this Con- 
 vention. But I find, sir, prominent among 
 tho reasons which arc offered why this Con- 
 vention is without the autliority of law or 
 parliamentary usage and revolutionary in its 
 character, that there are six members of tiiis 
 Convention— four from the Third Council 
 District, and two from tho Eighth Council 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Friday, July 31. 
 
 211 
 
 District, — who hold seats in this Convention 
 and participate in its deliberations vrith- 
 out authority of law. And, sir, being myself 
 one of those delegates, I propose to examine 
 a little into this matter, and ascertain whether 
 or not the allegations made are true. 
 
 Mr. President, if this Convention is in ses- 
 sion here without authority of law, or of par- 
 liamentary usage, and revolutionary in i^ 
 character, it is to be shown and proved by 
 testing its Constitution and its proceedings by 
 Bome law a«d by some parliamentary usage. 
 Now I find that upon this resolution which 
 I have read, ex-Governor Gorman made the 
 following remarks : 
 
 " My object, in the remarks I shall submit to-day, 
 will be to place before the country the reasons for 
 our action thus far, and to show, so far as 1 have a 
 knowledge of the facts and the ability, distinctly 
 and plainly, why it is that we occupy our present 
 position. 
 
 ' 'First. —The Congress of the United States passed 
 an act, authorizing the people of the Territory of 
 Minnesota to form a Constitution and State Gov- 
 ernment, preparatory to their admission into the 
 Union as a State. To carry out that act, the Legis- 
 lature at its special session, called in pai-t for that 
 purpose, passed an act, in aid of the Enabling Act 
 of Congress, prescribing how many persons should 
 be elected as Delegates to the Constitutional Con- 
 vention. That act prescribed that there should be 
 elected two persons for each Councillor and two 
 for each Representative. The Enabling Act pro- 
 vided that there should be elected tow Delegates 
 for each member of the Territorial Legislature. 
 It has been contended that under that provision, 
 we had the right to elect only tow for each Rep- 
 resentative which, doubling the number of thirty- 
 nine, would make seventy-eight in all. The Legis- 
 lature, at its extra session in 51ay, however, took 
 & different view of the Enabling Act, and construed 
 it, as 1 have said, to give us two Delegates for each 
 Representative, and two for each Councillor. 
 
 That either the Enabling Act of Congress or the 
 act of the Territorial Legislature is binding abso- 
 lutely upon the people in their sovereign capacity, 
 no American Statesman has, to my knowledge, 
 attempted to assume. On the contrary the author- 
 ities all go to show that the Enabling Act of Con- 
 gress is passed to give conformity and regtdarity 
 to the proceeding — to indicate the mode of pro- 
 cedure. The act of the Legislature is to give con- 
 formity and regularity to the elections and to 
 avoid anything like revolutionary action on the 
 part of the people. Therefore the act of Congress 
 and the act of the Territorial Legislature, are 
 mere forms — in the language of Mr. Buchanan — a 
 mere scaffolding, which, when the edifice is com- 
 pleted, is of no further use." 
 
 Now, Mr. President, I contend, in the first 
 place, tliat the act of Congress authorizing 
 the people of the Territory of Minnesota to 
 form for themselves a Constitution and State 
 government, is binding upon the people. I 
 contend that the Congress of the United States 
 has the supreme power and the supreme right 
 of controlling by legislation, the Territories 
 of the United States ; and I deny that the 
 people of the Territory have any legal right 
 to do anything in contravention of the act of 
 Congress. I deny that the people of the 
 Territory have the right to abrogate the form 
 of government which the Congress of the 
 United States has seen fit to provide for 
 them, without the consent of Congress ; and 
 here I must, of course, be understood as 
 meaning all legal rights under the Constitu- 
 tion and laws of the United SCites ; for there 
 is a right greater and above all Constitutions 
 and all laws — the right of revolution. But, 
 Mr, President, may the time be far distant 
 when the people of Minnesota shall feel the 
 necessity of appealing to that ultimate resort. 
 
 I say, then, that the Enabling Act of Con- 
 gress is binding upon the people of this Ter- 
 ritory. But, taking the ground assimied by 
 Ex-Governor Gorman, that the only object of 
 that act was to give conformity and regular- 
 ity to the elections, and to avoid anything 
 Hke revolutionary acts upon the part of the 
 people — I say, taking that groimd, we are to 
 determine whether or not this body is in ses- 
 sion here without authority of law or parlia- 
 mentary usage; and is a revolutionary body, 
 by ascertaining whether or not it has con- 
 formed to the provisions of the Enabling Act 
 of Congress, under which high call this Con- 
 vention is now in session, pursuing its labors. 
 
 And here let me remark that Ex-Governor 
 GoRMAx has not quoted the Act as it passed 
 Congress, and in a very material respect. Says 
 the Ex-Governor, "the Enabling Act pro- 
 vides that there should be elected two dele- 
 gates for each memher of the Territorial Le- 
 gislature." Now, the Act of Congress referred 
 to there, is as follows : 
 
 " That on the first Monday in June next, the 
 legal voters in each representative district, then 
 existing within the limits of the proposed State, 
 are hereby authorized to elect two delegat€3 for 
 each representative to which said district may be 
 entitled according to the apportionment for repre- 
 sentatives to the Territorial Legislature. 
 
212 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, July 81. 
 
 I propose, first, to inquire in what sense 
 the term " representative," in the Enabling 
 Act, is used — in other words, what construc- 
 tion is to be given to that Act, by this Con- 
 vention? The word "representative," in its 
 general signification, includes any agent or 
 deputy of another or others, standing in his 
 or their place, and invested with his or their 
 authority. The term has, however, in the 
 United States, acquired a technical significa- 
 tion, which indicates a member of the lower 
 or more popular branch of the Congress of 
 the United States, and of the Legislative As- 
 semblies of the different States and Territo- 
 ries. 
 
 l^ow, Mr. President, it has been contended 
 by some — and I know not but what it is con- 
 tended by some members of this Convention, 
 that the term "representative," as here used, 
 does include, not only " representatives," but 
 ♦' councillors." That such a construction has 
 been given to it, lam well aware; butthatthat 
 construction has the support of either reason 
 or analogy, I deny, In the first place it is 
 pot reasonable to suppose that Congress in- 
 tended to include in the term " representa- 
 tive," representatives and councillors. The 
 House of Representatives in every legislative 
 body is presumed to, and does contain those 
 agents or deputies of the people, who are sent 
 from the smallest local divisions of the Terri- 
 tory to be represented ; and more immediately 
 represent the popular will of the people, the 
 number of representatives being larger than 
 the number of members of the upper branch. 
 The districts are proportionately smaller, and 
 in that way the voice of the people is more 
 popularly represented. And it is reasonable 
 to suppose that the Congress of the United 
 States, in establishing a basis for the election 
 of delegates to this Convention, whereby the 
 people of the Territory of Minnesota were to 
 frame for themselves a Constitution and State 
 Government, that it would be their intention 
 and desire to have those delegates elected in 
 the most popular manner. 
 
 Now, it is well known, an^ especially in 
 this Territory, does this principle apply — that 
 while the members of the House of Repre- 
 sentatives come from small districts — not rep- 
 resenting, severally as could be desired, the 
 will of the people throughout the Territory — 
 yet that they do so to a much greater extent 
 
 than does the House, called the Council. As 
 an example I will point to the upper subdivis- 
 ion of the first council district, which sends 
 to the House of Representatives one member, 
 but at the same time sends one councillor. 
 Also the western subdivision of the ninth 
 council district — the county of Olmsted — 
 which, while it sends one representative, also 
 sends one councillor. On the other hand, 
 the second coimcil district, and the eleventh 
 council district of this Territory, wliile they 
 each send five representatives, send each but 
 one councillor. Now, Mr. President, it is ob- 
 vious to every one that a basis of that nature 
 would be the furtherest from the popular 
 basis. Then, I say it is not reasonable to 
 suppose that Congress intended to include in 
 the term " representative," representative and 
 councillor. 
 
 In the second place a construction which 
 includes in the term " representative," also 
 the term " councillor," has not the support of 
 analogy. I undertake to say, without the 
 fear of successful contradiction, that in no 
 Act of Congress, and in no Act of any Legis- 
 lative body, can the term be found with the 
 construction that has been attempted to be 
 •given to it here. On the other hand, I find 
 numerous instances analogous to this, where 
 the distinction has been made. I refer, as 
 an example, to section first of the second 
 Article of the Constitution of the United 
 States, wherein provision is made for the ap- 
 pointment of elector of President, wliich is as 
 follows : 
 
 "Each State shall appoint in such manner as 
 the Legislature thereof shall direct, a number of 
 Electors, equal to the whole number of Senators 
 and Representatives to which a State may be enti- 
 tled in Congress, Ac." 
 
 Now, the intention of that article was not 
 only to include the popular representation of 
 the people of the State, but also to include 
 the idea of a representation of the State sove- 
 reignty. It was there the intention of the 
 framers of the Constitution to imite those two 
 principles ; and yet they did not use the 
 word " Representatives in Congress." and 
 thereby include Representatives and Senators, 
 but they used the words " Senators and 
 Representatives. 
 
 It is provided in section four of the Organic 
 Act of the Territory, that — 
 "The Legislative power and authority of«aii\ 
 
MINNESOTA C0N\T:NTI0N DEBATES— Fp.idat, July 31. 
 
 113 
 
 Territory shall be vested in the Goremor and Leg- 
 islative Assemblv. The Legislative Assembly 
 Bhall consist of a Senate and House of Represent- 
 atives. The Council shall consist of nine members 
 having the qualifications of voters as hereinafter 
 prescribed, whose term of service shall continue 
 two years. The House of Representatives shall 
 at its first session consist of eighteen members 
 possessing the same qualifications as prescribed for 
 members of the Council, and whose term of serv- 
 ice shall continue one year. The number of 
 the Councillors and Representatives may be in- 
 creased by the Legislative Assembly from time to 
 time, in proportion to the increase of population, 
 Provided, the whole number shall never ex- 
 ceed fifteen Councilors, and thirty-nine Rep- 
 sentatives." 
 
 Such is the provision made by Congress 
 for the election of Councillors and Represen- 
 tatives in the Territorial Le^slattire. It is a 
 provision which Congress must be supposed 
 to have had in view when they passed the 
 Enabling Act, and when they used the term 
 *' representative." In the fourth section of 
 the Enabling Act, we find the following 
 provision : 
 
 "That in the event said Convention shall de- 
 cide in favor of the immediate admission of the 
 of the proposed State into the Union, it shall be 
 the duty of the United States Marshal for said 
 Territory to proceed to take a census or enumera- 
 tion of the inhabitants within the proposed State, 
 under such rules and regulations as shall be pre- 
 scribed by the Secretary of the Interior, with the 
 view of a.scertaining the number of Jiepresenta- 
 tives to which said State may be entitled in the 
 Congress of the United States; and said State 
 shall be entitled to one Jiepreaentative, and such 
 additional Jiepresentaiives as the population of the 
 Btate shall, according to the census, show it would 
 be entitled to according to the present ratio of 
 representation." 
 
 Now it must be evident to the mind of 
 every member of this Convention, that Con- 
 gress in tlie section did not include in the 
 term " Representative," also the term " Sen- 
 ator." for it provides that " said State shall be 
 entitled to one Representative " at any rate, 
 and we are aware that every State is entitled 
 to two Senators. 
 
 The term "Representative" in this section 
 must therefore be used in its technical sense. 
 Now is it fair and reasonable to suppose that 
 the Congress of the United States, in the 
 same act, when speaking of the Territorial 
 Legislature of Minnesota, composed of Coun- 
 cillors and Representatives would include in 
 the term " Representative " members of both 
 
 branches of the Legislative Assembly, and 
 when speaking of the Congress of the United 
 States, consisting of Senators and Represen- 
 tatives, would use the term " Representative " 
 in another signification ? I therefore say that 
 the construction attempted to be given to the 
 terms " Representative " in the Enabling Act, 
 has not the support of analogy. 
 
 Then, that point being gained, the Enabling 
 Act of Congress provided for the election in 
 each representative district in this Territory 
 of two Delegates for each Representative to 
 which that district was entitled. Now the 
 Territory of Minnesota, at the time the elec- 
 tion took place, was divided into certain 
 districts, which districts elected each one or 
 more Representatives to the Territorial Legis- 
 lature, and although the districts may be 
 called, in some instances, council districts, 
 yet they are in fact representative districts. 
 In other words they are the districts of the 
 Territory, electing and sending to the Terri- 
 torial Legislature, by themselves, one or more 
 Representatives. 
 
 "We also find, Mr. President, that at the 
 special session of the Territorial Assembly of 
 this Tenitory, last held, upon the recom- 
 mendation of the Governor of this Territory, 
 the Legislative Assembly 'passed an act in 
 aid of the Act of Congress ; and by that act 
 amongst pother things, it was provided that 
 upon the same day provided for by Congress, 
 an election shall be held in the various pre- 
 cincts of the Territory for the purpose of the 
 election of certain delegates ; and it is specially 
 provided in that act, that each Council district 
 in the Territory shall elect two Delegates for 
 each Gowicillor, and that each representative 
 district shall elect two Delegates for each 
 Representative. Now, so far as the act of the 
 Legislature contravenes the act of Congress, 
 I contend that it is simply inoperative. So 
 far as it is in the aid of the act of Congress, 
 I contend that it has a certain degree of va- 
 hdity and binding force. 
 
 Now, I contend, Mr. Presidest, that there 
 was provision made by law for the election of 
 two classes of Delegates. In the first place it 
 was provided that each representative district 
 should elect two Delegates for each Represen- 
 tative in accordance with the act of Congress, 
 that the authority vested in the people to elect 
 those Delegates emanated fi:x)m the supreme 
 
114 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Feiday, July 31. 
 
 power of the land to whom alone it belongs 
 to provide for the abrogation of Territorial 
 Governments, and the establishment of any- 
 other fonn of government, and that the 
 authority to elect those Delegates, emanating 
 from the supreme power, vested in those del- 
 egates the authority of the principal. On the 
 other hand, whatever right the Legislature of 
 the Territory might have had to authorize the 
 election of Delegates, of course the Delegates 
 elected under that authority, would possess 
 no greater authority than the principal. But 
 without discussing or attempting to define the 
 difference between the two authorities, I con- 
 tend that there is a difference, and a radical 
 and material difference ; that while the Con- 
 vention would be bound to receive the Dele- 
 gates elected by virtue of the provisions of 
 the act of Congress, it would be a matter 
 entirely within their discretion to admit or 
 reject the others. Therefore, I say that there 
 not only was a distinction between those two 
 classes of Delegates, but there was an abso- 
 lute necessity that that distinction should be 
 made and kept by the voters that undertook 
 to elect Delegates, and by all the officers of 
 the Territorial Government who were to 
 return those elections, in order that this Con- 
 vention might have before them all matters 
 necessary for their final determination. 
 
 Now, Mr. Pbesident, it is contended by 
 the gentleman who spoke to the preamble and 
 resolution which I have referred to, that there 
 are sitting in this body and deliberating 
 therein, six members who received certificates 
 from the proper oflBccrs and took their seats 
 in this body upon the ground that although 
 they did not receive a majority of the whole 
 number of votes cast in their districts, yet 
 that they did receive a majority of the votes 
 cast for the particular office which they 
 claimed to hold, and as I observed before, 
 four of those Delegates hold seats in this 
 Convention to represent the St. Anthony 
 council and representative district. 
 
 I propose, now, Mr. PKESiDE>rT, to go back 
 a little and examine one of the provisions of 
 the Enabling Act, which reads as follows, in 
 section three: 
 
 " Which election slmll be held and conducted, 
 and the returns made, in all respects in conformity 
 with the laws of said Territory regulatingtbe elec- 
 tion of representatives." 
 
 It is here specially pointed out by Congress, 
 that the election of those Delegates, and the 
 returns of the elections, are to conform in 
 eveiy respect to the provisions of the laws of 
 this Territory regulating the election of Rep- 
 resentatives. I propose now to examine those 
 laws ; and the first point to which I call the 
 attention of the Convention, is to the provis- 
 ion regulating the action of voters in casting 
 their votes': section thirteen of page forty- 
 seven of the statutes of Miimesota, which 
 provides as follows : 
 
 " Every elector shall vote by ballot, and each 
 person oUering to vote shall deliver his ballot to 
 one of the judges of election in presence of the 
 Board. The ballots shall be a paper ticket which 
 shall contain, written or printed, or partly written 
 or partly printed, the names of the persons for 
 whom the elector intends to vote, and shall desig- 
 nate the oflSce to which each person so named is 
 intended by him to be chosen ; but no ballot shall 
 contain a greater number of names of persons 
 designated to any office than there are persons to 
 be chosen at the election to fill such office. 
 
 I next read section thirty of the same chap- 
 ter, which prescribes the duties of the 
 Judges of Election : 
 
 "The ballots and poll lists agreeing or being made 
 to agree, the board shall then proceed to count 
 and ascertain the number of votes cast, and the 
 clerks shall set down in their poll books the names 
 of every person voted for, written at full length, 
 the office for which such person received such 
 votes, and the number he did receive, the number 
 being expressed at full length, &c." 
 
 Section twenty-three of the same chapter 
 provides : 
 
 "On the twentieth day after the close of any 
 election, or sooner, if all the returns be received, 
 the Clerk of the Board of County Commissioners, 
 taking to his assistance two Justices of the Peace 
 of the County, shall proceed to open said returns, 
 and to make abstracts of the votes in the following 
 
 manner, &c. And it shall be the duty of the 
 
 said Clerk of County Commissioners immediately 
 to make out a certificate of election to each person 
 having the highest number of votes for members 
 of the Legislative Assembly, County and Precinct 
 Ofiicers respectively, and to deliver said certificate 
 to the person entitled to it, on his making applica- 
 tion to the Clerk at his office." 
 
 I next read section forty-eight, of the same 
 chapter : 
 
 " In all elections for the choice of any officer.s, 
 unless it is otherwise exprcsslj- provided, the per- 
 son having the highest number of votes for any 
 office shall be deemed to have been elected to that 
 office." 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, July SI. 
 
 315 
 
 "The Clerk of the Board of County Commis- 
 sioners and Register of Deeds, as aforesaid, shall 
 not construe the statutes concerning the opening 
 of the election returns, so as to decide all matters 
 of law and facts themselves; but the Clerk and 
 Register aforesaid, and the two Justices thej- shall 
 call to their assistance, shall constitute a Board, a 
 majority of whom shall decide all matters of dis- 
 agreement ; and the said Board shall disregard 
 technicalities and misspelling or abbreviations of 
 the names of candidates for office, if it can be de- 
 termined from such votes for whom they were in- 
 tended." 
 
 Section forty-three, of the same chapter, 
 provides : 
 
 "Xo returns shall be refused by any Clerk of 
 the Board of County Commissioners, for the rea- 
 son that the same may be returned and delivered 
 to him in any other than the manner directed in 
 this chapter ; nor shall he refuse to include" any 
 returns in his estimate of votes for any informal- 
 ity in holding any election or making returns 
 thereof; but all returns shall be received and the 
 votes canvassed by such clerks, and a certificate 
 given to the person or persons who may, by^uch 
 returns, have the greatest number of votes." 
 
 Now, Mr. President, we have in the first 
 place a provision of law requiring that each 
 voter should designate upon his ballot tlie 
 particular office for which he intended to de- 
 signate the particular person. We have a 
 provision also that no ballot shall contain the 
 names of a greater number of persons for any 
 office than there are to be elected to that 
 office. In the second place we have a provi- 
 sion of statute requiring the Judges of Elec- 
 tion and the Clerks of Election, in the returns 
 which are to be made to the Registers of 
 Deeds of the counties, to designate in wri- 
 ting, in full, the names of each person voted 
 for, arul the office for which he was voted for. 
 In the next place, we find a provision that 
 the canvassing board shall be made up of the 
 Register of Deeds and two Justices of the 
 Peace of the coimty, and that it shall be the 
 duty of that board to pass upon all questions 
 of law and fact which come before them in 
 their canvass ; and we find that it is the duty 
 of the Register of Deeds to issue certificates 
 of election to those persons found h/ this 
 hoard of canvassers to have received the high- 
 est number of votes for any particular office. 
 
 Now, Mr. President, I propose to examine 
 and ascertain whether or not the four dele- 
 gates in this Convention who represent the 
 third Council District and the Representative 
 
 District comprising the same, hold seats in 
 this Convention in conformity to law. In the 
 first place then, the delegates from St. An- 
 thony hold their seats in this Convention by 
 virtue of having presented to this Convention 
 certificates of election, issued in due form of 
 law by the proper officer and under the seal 
 of the proper county. I propose, so far as I 
 discuss further points, to take such evidence 
 as I find in the speeches and in the proceed- 
 ings to which I have referred, and in reply to 
 which I am speaking. I fijid in the proceed- 
 ings of the public meeting to which I have 
 alluded the following, being a part of the re- 
 port of a committee on credentials : 
 
 "Tour committee would further state that tho 
 following certified copy of an abstract of the vote 
 polled in the Third Council District, upon which 
 Messrs. B. B. Meekee, Wm. M. Lashells, C. A. 
 TcTTLE, and C. L. Chase, claim to be duly elected, 
 was referred to the committee for examination, viz : 
 
 "At an election held at the City Council Room, 
 in the city of St. Anthony, in St. Anthony Pre- 
 cinct, in the county of Hennepin, and Territory of 
 Minnesota, on the first day of June, 1857, the fol- 
 lowing named persons received the number of 
 votes annexed to their respective names, for the 
 following described offices, to wit : 
 
 "B. B. Meeker received for delegate to the 
 Constitutional Convention, five hundred and twen- 
 ty-four votes. 
 
 " Samuel Staxchfield received for delegate to 
 the Constitutional Convention, four hundred and 
 ninety-five votes. 
 
 "Richard Fewek received for delegate to the 
 Constitutional Convention, four hundred and nine- 
 ty-six votes. 
 
 "William M. Lashells received for delegate to 
 the Constitutional Convention, four hundred and 
 ninety-seven votes. 
 
 " C. L. Chase received for delegate to the Con- 
 stitutional Convention, five hundred and twen^- 
 one votes. 
 
 " C. A. TuTTLE received for delegate to the Con- 
 stitutional Convention, five hundred and nine 
 votes. 
 
 "S. W. PuTXAM received for delegate to the 
 Constitutional Convention, from the Council Dis- 
 trict, four hundred and ninety -one votes. 
 
 "J. H. MrRPHT received for delegate to the Con- 
 stitutional Convention, from the council district, 
 four hundred and ninety-six votes. 
 
 " D. A. Secombe received for delegate to the Con- 
 stitutional Convention, from the representative 
 district, four hundred and seventy-two votes. 
 
 Section forty-nine, of the same chapter, 
 says: 
 
 " D. M. Hall received for delegate to the Consti- 
 tutional Convention, from the representative di»- 
 
216 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, July 3J. 
 
 trict four hundred and eighty-five votes. 
 
 " L. C. Walker received for delegate to the Con- 
 stitutional Convention, from the representative 
 district, five hundred and three votes. 
 
 "P. WixELL received for delegate to the Consti- 
 tutional Convention, from the representative dis- 
 trict, five hundred and twelve votes. 
 
 " WofELL received for delegate to the Constitu- 
 tional Convention, from the representative dis- 
 trict, two votes. 
 
 " Lashells received for delegate to the Constitu- 
 tional Convention, from the representative district, 
 two votes. 
 
 " 0. Shasse received for delegate to the Constitu- 
 tional Convention, from the representative district> 
 one vote. 
 
 "F. FuKBRreceived for delegate to the Constitu- 
 tional Convention from the representative district, 
 one vote. 
 
 •'JoHX Wensinger received for delegate to the 
 Constitutional Convention one vote. 
 
 " H. WiNELLS received for delegate to the Consti- 
 tutional Convention, one vote. 
 
 " Walker received for delegate to the Constitu- 
 tional Convention, one vote. 
 
 "Some White Man received for delegate to the 
 Constitutional Convention, one vote. 
 
 " PcTNAM received for delegate to the Constitu- 
 tional Convention, one vote. 
 
 " Certified by us, James B. Gilbert, Moses W.- 
 Getchell, Stephen Cobb, Judges of election. 
 
 " Attest : H. B. Taylor, Dax. M. Demmon, Clerks 
 of election. 
 
 " Office of Register of Dbeds, ) 
 Hennepin County, M. T. \ 
 
 " I certify that the above written is a full, true 
 and accurate copy of the original, as it appears on 
 file at this office. 
 
 " GEO, W. CHOWEN, 
 "Dep. Reg. Deeds, Hennepin Co., M. T. 
 
 "Minneapolis, June 15, 1857.- 
 
 I next read a certified copy of the abstract 
 of the Canvassing Board : 
 " For Delegates to the Constitutional Convention :\^ 
 
 "B. B. Meeker received 524 votes. 
 
 Samuel fc-TANcmiELD received 495 " 
 
 Richard Fewer received 496 " 
 
 Wm. Lashalls received 497 " 
 
 C. A. TuTTLB received 509 " 
 
 C. L. CuASE received 521 " 
 
 " For Delegates to Constitutional Convention, from 
 Council District : 
 
 " J. U. Murphy received 496 votes. 
 
 B. W. Putnam received 491 " 
 
 " For Delegates to Constitutional Contention, from 
 
 Bepresentatine DistHot : 
 " D, A. Sbcombk received 472 votes. 
 
 D. M. Hall received 485 " 
 
 L. C. Walker received 503 " 
 
 P. WiNELL received 512 " 
 
 " This sheet contains an abstract of the votes 
 returned from the St. Anthony precinct, as being 
 cast for delegates to the Constitutional Conven- 
 tion, at on election there held on the first day of 
 
 June, 1857. The Board of Canvassers are unani- 
 mously of the opinion that the votes cast for dele- 
 gates to said Convention, without designation of 
 either Council or Representative District, could 
 not legally be counted by them; and they there- 
 fore determine that J. H. Murphy and S. W. Put- 
 nam, arc entitled to certificates of election, as hav- 
 ing received the highest number of votes cast for' 
 delegates to the Constitutional Convention, from 
 the Council District, and that D. A. Secombe, D* 
 M. Hall, L. C. Walker and P. Winell, are en- 
 titled to certificates of election, as having received 
 the highest number of votes for delegates to the 
 said Convention from the Representative District. 
 
 " [Signed] JOHN C. McCAIN, ) Justices of 
 E. 8. JONES. i Peace. 
 
 " Attest : C. G. Ames. Clerk Board of Commission- 
 ers. 
 
 " Hennepin County, M. T., June 10th, 1857." 
 
 Now, Mr. President, I claim that tlie pro- 
 ceedings in regard to the canvassing, and in 
 regard to the issuing of certificates of election 
 to those members were in all respects in con- 
 formity with the provisions of the law, and 
 that any other course, had it been taken by 
 either of the oiBcers would have been illegal. 
 I claim that there were two classes of dele- 
 gates to be elected, that those classes of del-- 
 gates were to be elected by virtue of two 
 authorities, and that there was a radical dif- 
 ference in the nature of the office to which 
 they were elected, that it was the duty of 
 every voter to designate the particular oflSce 
 for which he intended to designate each man 
 he voted for ; that it was the duty of all the 
 the judges of election to preserve that dis^ 
 tinction ; that it \^as the duty of the can- 
 vassers to preserve the same distinction ; and 
 that had they done in any other way they 
 would have palpably violated the law. 
 
 Now, I propose, in addition to this, to 
 show that in this particular instance not only 
 was it the law, but that the Democratic party 
 of St. Anthony knew it was the law, and pre- 
 viously to the election, and subsequent to tho 
 election so contended. I read first from tho 
 St. Anthony Express of May 16, 1857, the 
 only " Democratic" paper in the county of 
 Hennepin, and the accredited organ of the 
 party, " Suggestions in view of tho Coming 
 Election." 
 
 " It being the universally received construction 
 in all parts of the Territory, of the Enabling Act, 
 at least for the purposes of this canvass, that each 
 precinct is entitled to double the number of Dele- 
 gates in the Conveation which it has both of Rep- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, July 31. 
 
 2ir 
 
 reeentatives and Conncillors in the Legislature, 
 St. Anthony should make her nominations and 
 elections accordingly ; else she might fail of hav- 
 ing her due representation. Certainly such would 
 be the case should she only choose Representa- 
 tive Delegates, while other precincts choose Coun- 
 tillor Delegates in addition, and also secured seats 
 for them. At the same time it should be borne in 
 mind that the Convention, like any other legisla- 
 tive [body], will decide the number, as well as 
 judge of the qualifications of its own members ; 
 and that when assembled it may take it upon itself 
 to construe the Enabling Act, and to suit its own 
 uotion, caprice or convenience, without the re- 
 motest reference to what the people have thought or 
 done in the premises. The Convention, as re- 
 gards its rules of action or its organization, will be 
 entirely irresponsible ; and if it should hold that 
 only Representative Delegates should be admitted 
 to seats, the Councillor Delegates would be com- 
 pelled to retire. A thousand certificates of elec- 
 tion, signed by a thousand inspectors of election 
 would not avail them. Would it not then be 
 the part of wisdom to prepare for, or guard against 
 whatever may happen ? Would it not be the part 
 of wisdom and prevent misunderstanding aud 
 embarrassment, to designate or distinguish in 
 some simple, plain manner the two classes of Del- 
 egates, either as Representative or Councillor, on 
 the tickets themselves ? After such a precaution, 
 it would be known who must retire, should the 
 Convention as is not at all improbable, put a con- 
 struction upon the Enabling Act difiering from the 
 popular construction. And thus much time and 
 contention and many heart-burnings might b6 
 •saved." 
 
 In the same paper of May twenty-thirdj 
 previous to the election, it contained an article 
 entitled "Doings of the Democratic Nomi- 
 " nating Convention." It is as follows : 
 
 " Meeting called to order by J. B. Gilbert, Esq. 
 
 " Chose R. L. Joice President, and J. S. Dem- 
 mon Secretary. 
 
 "The name of Delegates were then called, and 
 all appeared but Mr. Cassitt in First Ward, James 
 Holmes in Second Ward, and J. A. Lennon in 
 Third Ward. Said vacancies hlled by substituting 
 Mulligan for Cassitt, Lochran for HolmeSj and 
 Endy for Lennon. 
 
 " The proceedings of the last meeting was then 
 read. 
 
 " On motion of Mr. Gilbert, the Convention 
 then proceeded to nominate candidates to the Con- 
 stitutional Convention by ballot. 
 
 " On motion of Mr. Lochran, it was voted to 
 proceed to nominate singly. 
 
 " On motion of J. B. Gilbert, the first ballot to 
 be considered informal. 
 
 " On motion of Mr. Lochran, voted that the first 
 two nominated shall be candidates at large. 
 
 " Whereupon, B. B. Meeker, Wm. Lochran, R. 
 28 
 
 Fewer, S. Rtanchfield, La Schell and C. A. Tuttle 
 were imanimously nominated. 
 
 "J. S. Demmon Secretary/' 
 
 And on the same day is published at the 
 head of its columns : 
 
 "DEMOCRATIC NOMIXATIOXS. 
 
 DELEGATES TO THE COXSTITUTIOXAL COXVEXTIOXi 
 
 Delegates at Large. 
 
 B. B. Meeker. William Lochkax. 
 
 District Ddegatea. 
 
 RicHAED Fewer. Samuel Staxchfield. 
 
 W. M. La Schell. C. A. Tcttle." 
 
 I would here state that subsequent to Jhe 
 nomination, and before the election, Mr 
 Lochran, nominated as Delegate as Lai'ge, 
 declined, and Mr. Secbetaby Chase was put 
 in his place. On the day of election, however, 
 the ticket came out differently, and I wiU 
 here state what is within my personal knowl- 
 edge, that they did come out so differently 
 because Judge Meeker himself went person- 
 ally into the printing office on the Tiohj Sab- 
 hath day-, and superintended the printing of 
 those tickets in a different manner from what 
 the nomination had been heard. 
 
 On the sixth of June, subsequent to the 
 election, but previous to the canvass, the fol- 
 lowing article appeared in the same paper : 
 
 " According to current report the Black sharpers 
 made a point of the alleged fact that the Demo- 
 cratic ticket was printed in solido, and without any 
 classification of candidates in words, either as 
 Council or Representative Delegates ; and there- 
 upon base a claim for certificates to Mcephy and 
 Putxam, who were distinguished on the printed 
 ballots of the "Republicans" as "Delegates at 
 Large." Well, there is no call here for a waste of 
 ink or of breath. The entire matter is resolved 
 into a question of intent and understanding ; and 
 when we arrive at the common intent and general 
 understanding in the premises, we have the only 
 solution. And in the outset it may be asserted 
 and very easily proved that the names of Judge 
 Meeker and C. L. Chase were, the Saturday 
 before the election, at the head of the columns of 
 the St. Anthony Express, under the appellation 
 printed in legible characters, of "Delegates at 
 Large." This of itself meets the objection raised^ 
 of a want of an understood and received distinction 
 in the public mind as to which were to be consid- 
 ered Council aud which Representative Delegates." 
 
 And on the thirteenth day of June, subse- 
 quently to the canvass thsre appeared in the 
 same paper the following article : 
 
 "Where is Judge Meeker? Why is he not 
 here pulling his own chestnuts out of the fire." 
 
 Now, Mr. President, as I said before, not 
 only did the law require the designation to b« 
 
fil8 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, July 31. 
 
 made upon the tickets between the two classes 
 of Delegates, but also the Democratic party 
 of that district knew that it was so required ; 
 Jnade their nominations in that way, published 
 them in that way by their own showing, on 
 the Saturday previous to the Monday on 
 which the election took place ; and that 
 subsequently to the election they undertook 
 to offer an argument that because they so 
 published them, the voters would be presumed 
 to have it understood that they were voting 
 for Meeker and Chase as Delegates at Large, 
 and the others from the representative district, 
 and that the Board of Canvassers were bound 
 to take that as evidence, in opposition to the 
 evidence of the tickets which the voters had 
 cast. 
 
 Again, the inquiry in regard to the where- 
 abouts of Judge Meeker, shows three things ; 
 In the first place, that they understood that 
 there were some chesnuts in the fire, and 
 liable to be burned ; second, that these ches- 
 nuts belonged particularly to Judge Meeker ; 
 and in the third place, charging him with not 
 being there to attend to them — or in other 
 words, charging Judge Meeker with having 
 produced the state of the case under which 
 they were laboring ; that there was trouble 
 and that he had brought it about. 
 
 Now, I propose to say a word in regard to 
 "what is alleged as the inconsistency of this 
 Convention in this matter. It is asserted 
 that while the distinction between the two 
 •classes of Delegates had been recognized by 
 somebody — and it is charged upon the Con- 
 vention — that the Convention themselves have 
 disregarded that distinction in other cases; 
 and the case of the gentleman from the 
 Eleventh Council District (Mr. Sheldon) is 
 referred to as one instance. In that case, 
 Mr. President, it appears by the evidence 
 before this Convention, that Mr. Sheldon 
 actually received in the Council District for 
 which he was a candidate, three votes more 
 than R. P. Russell ; that every one of those 
 votes contained the distinction, but that the 
 judges of election, in making the returns to 
 the register of deeds of their precincts, failed 
 to preserve that distinction, and that conse- 
 quently the canvassing board, being bound by 
 law to recognize and preserve that distinction, 
 could not go behind the returns,* and they 
 returned Mr. Russell as duly elected to this 
 
 Convention ; that this Convention having 
 the power to go behind the certificate, Mr. 
 Russell refusing to appear here, and Mr. 
 Sheldon claiming the seat, the Convention 
 determined that he having received the 
 greatest number of votes cast for that partic- 
 ular oflBce, was entitled to a seat in this 
 Convention. 
 
 It has also been asserted that twenty-eight 
 members of this Convention, sitting in this 
 body were voted for in the same manner as 
 were the Democrats in the Third Council 
 District. Mr. President, this Convention 
 knows, of course, nothing about that matter, 
 but I have simply to say that in each of the 
 districts in which that thing occurred both 
 tickets were in the same form, both parties 
 making a mistake, as I understood it, in the 
 printing of their tickets, and consequently one 
 had no preference over the other, and that tire 
 register of deeds in those counties did per- 
 fectly right in giving the cerSflcates to those 
 having the highest number of votes. 
 
 The same principle will apply to the two 
 scats that are said to be illegally held by 
 Delegates from the Eighth Council District. 
 Not only in that district was it necessary to 
 make the distinction because there were two 
 classes of Delegates to be elected, but also 
 because there were two Councillor Dele- 
 gates to be elected in diflFerent districts from • 
 the different Representative Delegates. The 
 counties of Houston and Mower, being them- 
 selves separated by the county of Fillmore, 
 constituting one of the subdivisions of the 
 Eighth Council District, are entitled to one 
 Councillor, while the county of Houston is 
 entitled to two representatives, and^he county 
 of Mower one. Consequently under the Ena- 
 bling Act the county of Houston would be en- 
 titled to elect four Delegates and the county of 
 Mower would be entitled to elect two Delegates, 
 and under the Territorial Act the Council Dis- 
 trict of Houston and Mower together were en- 
 titled to elect two Delegates. It is alleged that 
 two delegates sitting in this Convention received 
 a less number of votes than two others to 
 whom certificates of election were refused. 
 But by the report of the committee on Cre- 
 dentials, before referred to, it appears that the 
 two gentlemen sitting in this body, whose 
 scats, it is alleged, are illegally held by them, 
 received the highest number of votes in the 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, July 81. 
 
 21ff 
 
 council district for the particular office of 
 delegate for that council district, and that 
 they were, vrah. only slight exceptions, the only- 
 persons who received any votes for that office. 
 Now, Mr. President, I suppose gentlemen 
 have been uneasy wliile I have been speak- 
 ing, because they wish to go on with the 
 business of the Convention. I ^vish to pro- 
 gress with our business as much as they do, 
 and I will do the best I can to go on with it. 
 But, sir, while the action of this Convention, 
 in their accepting the certificates of every in- 
 dividual who has brought them here, as the 
 only e\'idence that could be received, have 
 taken no other than the regular and legal 
 course, yet I deem it my privilege and my 
 duty to place this matter upon the record, 
 in a position to show that not only has this 
 Convention pursued the steps required of 
 them by law, but also that all canvassing 
 and returning officers of the Territorial gov- 
 ernment have pursued the same steps. And 
 although I am aware that it is, at times, 
 superfluous to raise a point before it is made 
 in Convention, yet I trust that it will be ad- 
 mitted by all gentlemen that there are times 
 when it is proper that they should go beyond 
 that. I have not asked this body, nor would 
 I desire or consent to ask this body to take 
 any action upon the matter. "What has 
 . been said has been said as a matter of 
 knowledge, as a member of this Convention. 
 I have further to say that, as a matter of 
 equity, the delegates from the Third Council 
 District, whose seats have been alleged to be 
 held illegally, themselves believe and know 
 that they not only hold their seats here in 
 strict legal regularity, but also as the repre- 
 sentatives of quite a large majority of all the 
 legal voters in their districts, and had it been 
 their fortune to have had them contested, 
 they would have shown it to the world. The 
 average majority, counting the votes as passed 
 without any distinction, with the Democratic 
 ticket, is fifteen; and I assert, without the 
 fear of successful contradiction, that a simple 
 examination of the poll books of Manomin, 
 Minneapolis, St. Paul, and St. Anthony, 
 would find, without a reasonable doubt to 
 this Convention, or to anybody, that all the 
 delegates sitting in tlus body from the Third , 
 Council District, represent at least fifty ma- 
 jority of the legal voters of that District. 
 
 EEPOBT OP COStMITTEE. 
 
 Mr. MESSER, from the committee on Im- 
 peachment and Removal firom Office, made 
 the following report, which was read a first 
 and second time, and laid upon the table to 
 be printed, viz : 
 
 " Sec. 1. The House of Representatives shall 
 have the sole power of impeaching civil oflBcers 
 for corrupt conduct in oflSce, or for crimes or mis- 
 demeanors, but a majority of the members elected 
 shall be necessary to direct an impeachment. 
 
 Sec. 2. Every impeachment shall be tried by 
 the Senate. When the Governor or Lieutenant 
 Governor is tried, the Chief Justice of the Su- 
 preme Court shall preside. 
 
 "When an impeachment is directed, the Senate 
 shall take an oath or affirmation truly and impar- 
 tially to try and determine the same according to 
 the evidence. 2fo person shall be convicted with- 
 out the concurrence of two-thirds of the members 
 elected. 
 
 Judgment, in case of impeachment shall not ex- 
 tend fmther than removal from office; but the 
 party convicted shall be liable to punishment ac- 
 cording to law. 
 
 Sec 3. When an impeachment is directed, the 
 House of Representatives shall elect from their 
 own body three members, whose duty it shall be 
 to prosecute such impeachment. I*o impeachment 
 shall be tried untU the tinal adjournment of the 
 Legislature, whdn the Senate shall proceed to try 
 the same. 
 
 Sec. i. Xo judicial officer shall exercise his 
 office after an impeachment is directed, until he is 
 acquitted. 
 
 Sec. 5. The Governor may make provisional 
 appointment to fill a vacancy occasioned by the 
 suspension of an officer until he shall be acquitted, 
 or until after the election and qualification of a 
 successor. 
 
 Sec. 6. For reasonable cause, which shall not 
 be sufficient ground for the impeachment of a 
 Judge, the Governor shall remove him on a con- 
 current resolution of two-thirds of the members 
 elected to each House of the Legislature ; but the 
 cause for which such removal is required shall be 
 stated at length in such resolution. 
 
 Sec 7. The Legislature shall provide by law 
 for the removal of any officer elected by a county 
 or township or school district, in such manner as 
 to them shall seem just and proper." 
 
 BESOLUTIOXS. 
 
 The following resolution, oflfered yesterday, 
 was taken from the table and read : 
 
 "Besolved, That this Convention adjourn with- 
 out day on Friday, the seventh day of August 
 next." 
 
 Mr. BOLLES moved that the resolution be 
 laid on the table. 
 
220 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, July 81. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The resolution offered by Mr. McCLrnE 
 yesterday, was also taken from the table and 
 read, and then, on motion of Mr. McClxjre, 
 the same was again laid upon the table. 
 
 PROPOSITIONS OF CONGRESS. 
 
 Mr. BATES, I would enquire what dispo- 
 sition has been made of the report in refer- 
 ence to accepting the propositions of Congress ? 
 
 Mr. SEGQMBE. It was considered in 
 pommittec of the Whole, reported back to the 
 Convention with a recommendation that it be 
 adopted, and was ther^ laid upon the table, 
 
 Mr. BOLLES moved that the report be 
 ^aken up at this time. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the report 
 was taken from the table and read. 
 
 Mr. MORGAJJ. I move that the rules be 
 so far suspended as to allow this report to be 
 referred to the con^mittee on Arrangement 
 find Phraseology. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the report 
 ■^as accordingly so referred. 
 
 BOUNDARIES OF THE STATE. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move that the Conven- 
 ^on resolve itself into a committee of the 
 Whole, to take into consideration the report 
 pf the committee upon Boundaries, 
 
 Mr. COLI^URN. I should not object to 
 that motion were it not from the fact that 
 when the matter was last befo;re the Conven- 
 tion, the gentleman from Winona (Mr. 
 Wilson) stated that he wished to present a 
 minority report, and at that time it was de- 
 ferred in order to enable him to do sa That 
 gentleman is not present now, though he has 
 something prepared in the nature of a substi- 
 tute for the report. For that reason I think 
 we liad better not go into committee now. 
 
 Mr. SECOMB^, The gentleman from Win- 
 ona stated, at the time the matter was up 
 before, that he would make hiis minority 
 report the next d,ay, and that be would ask 
 no further delay. 
 
 Mr. COLBUilN. Tl^e gentleman intended 
 to make a minority report, but he has since 
 concluded to offer a substitute instead. He 
 is prepared to do so as soon as he returns. 
 lie has gone to his rooms for a special 
 purpose. 
 
 Mr. McKUNE, I hope the gentleman will 
 withdraw his motion. There are quite a 
 
 number who feel interested in this matter, but 
 they are not now prepared to meet it. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. The geiftleman from 
 Winona was present this morning, and stated 
 to me that there was no probability that this 
 report would be reached untU this afternoon, 
 and that it was indispensably necessary that 
 he should go to his room to transact some 
 business. He desired me to state, if this 
 report should be called up, that he desired 
 that it should be postponed until after dinner, 
 as he desired to be heard upon a proposition 
 he had to submit. Knowing some of the 
 positions he occupies, and sympathising with 
 him somewhat, I hope the report will not be 
 taken up now, 
 
 Mr. SFjCOMBE. I have no personal wishes 
 upon the subject, and as it seems to be the 
 desire of the Convention, I withdraw the 
 motion. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. As there seems to be no 
 business before the Convention, and as there 
 are several committees which have business 
 to transact, I move that the Convention 
 adjourn until half past two o'clock. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and thereupon 
 (at half past eleven o'clock) the Conventiori 
 adjourned, 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 REPORT OF COMMITTEES, 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS, from the committee on 
 State Officers other than Executive, made tho 
 following report, which was read a first and 
 second time and laid on the table to be 
 printed. 
 
 Skc. 1. There shall t^e elected at each general 
 biennial election a Secretary of State, State Treas- 
 urer, Attorney General, State Auditor and Super- 
 intendent of Public Instruction for tho term of 
 two years. They shall keep their offices at the 
 SiCat of Government, and perform such duties and, 
 receive such compensation as may be prescribed 
 by law, 
 
 Sec, 2. Their term of office shall commence on 
 the first Monday of January succeeding their 
 ejection, and everj' second year thereafter. 
 
 Skc, 3, Whenever a vacancy shall occur in, 
 aiyr of the State Offices, the Governor shall fill the 
 same by appointment, until the next election of 
 Representatives, by and with the advice and con- 
 sent of the Senate, if in session. 
 
 Skc. 4. The Secretary of State, State Treasurer, 
 
 and Auditor, shall constitute a Board of State 
 
 Canvassers, to determine the result of all elections, 
 
 'for Governor and State Officers, and such othev 
 
 ' Qflicera w may be referred to tliem. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, July 31. 
 
 221 
 
 Sec. 5. In case two or more persons have an 
 equal and highest number of votes lor any Office, 
 fLS canvassed by the Board of State Canvassers, 
 the Legislature in joint Convention, shall choose 
 one of said persons to fill such office. 
 
 Sec. 6. When the determination of the Board 
 pf State Canvassers is contested, the Legislature 
 in Joint Convention shall decide which person is 
 elected. 
 
 COM.MITTEE OX ENEOLLMEXT. 
 
 Mr. }iIcCLURE moved that a committee of 
 three on EmroUment be appointed by the 
 Chair. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I would inquire if such 
 a committee has not already been appointed ? 
 The PRESIDENT. A committee on En- 
 grossment has been appointed. 
 
 Mr, McCLURE. It is usual to have both 
 an Enrolling and Engrossing Committee, The 
 committee on Arrangement and Phraseology 
 have too much business thrown upoii their 
 hands. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and thereupon 
 the President appointed as such committee 
 Messrs. Folsoji, Cleghorx and Russell. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE, from the committee on 
 Arrangement and Phraseology, reported back 
 reports number one and eight, being the 
 reports upon the Preamble and Bill of Rights, 
 ^nd ■ upon the LegislaMve Department, and 
 asked that they be referred to the committee 
 on Enrollment. 
 
 They were so referred. 
 
 boundaries of the state. 
 On motion of Mr. CQLBURN, the Convene 
 tion resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole, (Mr. Thojipsos in the chair) upon the 
 report of the committee upon Boundaries. 
 The report was read as follows : 
 
 "It is hereby ordained and declared that the 
 State of Minnesota doth consent to and accept of 
 the boundaries prescribed in the act of Congress 
 entitled an act to enable the people of Minnesota 
 to form a Constitution and State Government pre- 
 paratory to their admission in the Union on an 
 equal footing with the original States, approved 
 ilarch 3d, 1S57 : Beginning at the point in the 
 centre of the main channel of the Red River of 
 the North where the boundary line between the 
 United States and the British possessions crosses 
 the same ; thence up the main channel of the said 
 River, to that of the Bois des Sioux River ; thence 
 up the main channel of said River, to Lake Trav- 
 erse ; thence up the centre of said Lake to the 
 southern extremity thereof; thence in a direct line 
 to the head of Big Stone Lake ; thence through its 
 
 centre to its outlet ; thence by a due south line to 
 the north line of the State of Iowa; thence along 
 the northern boundary of said State to the main 
 channel of the Mississippi River ; thence up the 
 main channel of said River, and following the 
 boundary line of the State of Wisconsin until the 
 same intersects the Saint Louis River ; thence 
 down the said River to and through Lake Superior 
 on the boundary line of Wisconsin and Michigan, 
 until it intersects the dividing line between the 
 United States and the British possessions ; thence 
 up the Pigeon River, and following said dividing 
 line to the place of beginning." 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I was a member of the 
 committee which made this report, though I 
 did not concur in it. I intended to make a 
 minority report, but will content myself with 
 oflfering the following substitute ; 
 
 "The boundaries of the State of Minnesota shall 
 be as follows : 
 
 Beginning in the middle of the main channel of 
 the Missouri River at the point where the forty- 
 sixth parallel of north latitude crosses the same ; 
 thence down the middle of the main channel of 
 said Missouri River to the western boundary of the 
 State of Iowa at a point opposite the mouth of the 
 main channel of the Big Sioux River ; thence up 
 the middle of the main channel of said Big Sioux 
 River to the north west corner of the State of 
 Iowa; thence east along the northern boundary of 
 said State to the main channel of the Mississippi 
 River ; thepce up the main channel of the Missis- 
 sipi River following the boundary line of the State 
 of Wisconsin until it is intersected by the parallel 
 of forty-six degrees north latitude ; thence west 
 ?dong said parallel of forty-six degrees until said 
 parallel intersects the middle of the main channel 
 of the Missouri River at the point of beginning." 
 
 Mr. McKUNE, I hope this substitute will 
 be adopted. Its claims are so just that Uttle 
 need to be said to convince the mind of any 
 man that great benefits would be derived 
 irom adopting it. The boundaries contained 
 in the Enabling Act are only recommenda- 
 tory. It that be true, then the people of 
 Minnesota are perfectly free to establish their 
 own boundaries. The boundaries proposed 
 in the substitute include nearly all the inhab- 
 ited portion of Minnesota and nearly all that 
 ever can become populous. By adopting this 
 boundary we not only get rid of large tracts 
 of unfertile lands, but of conflicting interests, 
 which will require distinct and separate legis- 
 lation. Legislation which is applicable to and 
 necessary for the protection of a fjuming com- 
 munity, is not applicable to, or necessary for 
 a minmg, trapping or hunting district. No 
 
222 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, July 31. 
 
 man will deny but that the agricultural in- 
 terest north of the parallel of forty-six dcgi'ces 
 is dwarfed to insignificance, nor will they deny 
 that lumber is the main product of the Ter- 
 ritory north of that line. The mining region 
 is very small. The fur trade is of considera- 
 ble consequence, and almost all its benefits 
 are confined to this City. The people north 
 of that line, by this division, will be deprived 
 of none of the commercial advantages they 
 now enjoy, nor shall we be deprived of the 
 large lumber interest which we now enjoy. 
 The commerce created by the mining interest 
 of the present Territory is confined to the 
 shores of lake Superior, and goes from there 
 directly east, and consequently it does not 
 benefit the Territory of Minnesota generally 
 one doUar. The City of St. Paul or any 
 other trading post wUl enjoy the same amount 
 of trade from the north that they do now. 
 No man will pretend to say that St. Paul will 
 receive a less share of the fur trade than she 
 does now, or that the rivers flowing south 
 will be turned north so as to deprive us of 
 the lumber trade. By this division, the peo- 
 ple north of the line will have all the com- 
 merce and advantages they now possess, and 
 at the same time be separated from the con- 
 flicting interests which would forever be a 
 curse to the Territory north of the parallel of 
 forty-six degrees. 
 
 I have now shown you that no portion of 
 this Territory will lose anything by this pro- 
 posed new boundary, and now let us see what 
 benefits the south will derive from such a 
 boundary. The proposed boundary stretches 
 from the St. Croix River to the navigable wa- 
 ters of the Missouri, taking in an area of Ter- 
 ritory almost equal to that included within 
 the boundaries proposed by the Enabling Act, 
 south of forty-six degrees of latitude, and in- 
 cludes a rich agricultural country second to 
 none in this Territory, and drawing with it 
 all the commerce and trade of all the numer- 
 ou.s branches of tho<Missouri River, and also 
 the rich coal fields lying along that River, 
 which will furnish a rich trade that cannot go 
 south of us, if included within our State, but 
 must come directly through the State by the 
 east and west roads, making Minnesota not 
 only one of the richest agricultural, but one 
 of the richest commercial States in the Union. 
 
 Mr. HA YDEN. I did not think of making 
 
 any remarks upon this question, but I must 
 confess that I am somewhat astonished, under 
 the circumstances, that it should be intro- 
 duced in this manner. There are a number 
 of reasons why I am opposed to that substi- 
 tute being adopted in place of the original 
 report. 
 
 In the first place, it is very important, if 
 we are framing a Constitution with the expec- 
 tation that the people will adopt it, and that 
 we shall be admitted as a State into the Un- 
 ion under it, that we should frame that Con- 
 stitution under the Enabling Act, and without 
 departing from it one way or the other. It is 
 much more important under the circiomstan- 
 ces in which we are placed, than it otherwise 
 would be, and I hope that, as members of 
 this Convention, we shall feel that importance 
 and act accordingly. 
 
 But it has been alleged here, that if we go 
 according to the Enabling Act, that there will 
 be conflicting interests in the State — that the 
 lumbering, the mining, the commercial and 
 the agricultural interests wUl all conflict. 
 Now, sir, I view that subject in a very differ- 
 ent light. I believe that those interests in- 
 stead of conflicting, will necessarily combine 
 to make us what we desire to be — a prosper- 
 ous and powerful State. It is just what is 
 demanded and necessary to make us one of 
 the most powerful States in the whole union. 
 
 Another thing is to be taken into conside- 
 ration. We have, according to the Enaljling 
 Act, mot and elected delegates to tliis Con- 
 stitutional Convention, living within the lim- 
 its of the proposed State. Now if this sub- 
 stitute is adopted, there are men in this body 
 who necessarily should go home, for they have 
 no business to assist in framing a State gov- 
 ernment for a State to which they do not and 
 cannot belong. 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. Will the gentleman inform 
 me what members live north of the limits pro- 
 posed by the substitute ? 
 
 Mr. IIAYDEN. There were men living 
 north of that line, who were elected to this 
 Convention, but who have not taken their 
 seats. They liavc as much right to claim a 
 seat here as any of us. 
 
 I liope, Mr. President, that wc who are as- 
 sembled to represent the interests of the peo- 
 ple of this Territory, will see the importance 
 of rejecting each and every substitute, and of 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, Jplt 81. 
 
 223 
 
 going forward and framing our Constitution 
 under the Enabling Act. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I hope the case is not so 
 hopeless a one as some would seem to think. 
 I hope in seeing the votes recorded upon this 
 amendment to see that there is not a great 
 majority against an east and west line ; and 
 I hope still further to see a majority in its 
 favor. If not, I say there are charges which 
 are to me inexplicable in every sense. Now, 
 I am in favor of the boundary contained in 
 the substitute in almost every hght that I can 
 view it. I am in favor of it because I believe 
 the people of this Territory want it. I be- 
 lieve the people demand this boundary, "W hen 
 we take a map of our Territory and see how 
 it is populated, and then look at the represen- 
 tatives that population sends to this Conven- 
 tion, I cannot see how any person can draw 
 any other conclusion. Houston and Winona 
 Counties where are they? In favor of the 
 boundaries contained in the substitute. Here 
 lies Fillmore County and where is she ? In 
 favor of an East and West line. Where stand 
 almost all the southern counties? Where 
 but on the side of an East and West hne. 
 
 Mr. WATSON. I beg the gentleman's 
 pardon, but I must interrupt him. I can in- 
 form the gentlemen that Fillmore County is 
 not in favor of an East and West line. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. WeU I never heard that 
 before. I have always imderstood that she 
 was arrayed with all the southern counties 
 against this North and South line. 
 
 Mr. WATSON. More than two-thu-ds of 
 the inhabitants of Fillmore County are in 
 favor of a North and South Une. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. WeU I suppose I stand 
 corrected, as the gentleman ought to know 
 more about that coimty than I do, but this is 
 the first time I ever heard of it in my life. 
 Almost the entire population of southern 
 Minnesota I understand to be in favor of it, 
 and I believe that quite a majority of the 
 whole people of the Territory are also in favor 
 .of an East and West line. I believe too that 
 the opposition to this line believe a majority of 
 the people are in favor of it, because if they 
 did not, they would, like honest men, have per- 
 mitted the people to express their sentiments 
 fairly upon the question. But they dare not 
 do it. Now how was this boundary procured ? 
 
 I state it, for the information of the members 
 of this Convention, that the present appor- 
 tionment under which we now act was procured 
 by these Pembina members. These Pem- 
 bina members had the control, the balance of 
 power in the Legislature, and they said to 
 their friends, " we will not vote so and so un- 
 " less you give us three members in the Legis- 
 " lature," and that too without taking a census 
 at all as is done in the remainder of the Ter- 
 ritory. It is notorious that they did not 
 deserve one in either House — their population 
 would not warrant it. The demand was 
 granted by those who always traded with 
 Pembina, and they got three representa- 
 tives when they should have had none. 
 Now, sir, we came up to the Legislature last 
 winter seeking a new apportionment, that we 
 might get a far representation in this Consti- 
 tutional Convention, and in legislative bodies 
 hereafter. WeU one of these Pembina mem- 
 bers takes himself away, hiding himself in 
 some obscure hole in this city, and then some 
 of our bretheren near St. Paul demands a 
 call of the Council, and thereby keeps it in 
 session so that no business can be done, in 
 order that no new apportionment may be 
 made. That is the condition in which we 
 stand now. I state these facts upon the in- 
 formation of gentlemen whose words are en- 
 titled to aU confidence, and therefore I be- 
 Ueve them. The veiy fact that they acted so 
 palpably imjust con^-inces me that they be- 
 lieved that fairness in the matter would have 
 given us an East and West line. The very 
 knowledge that such fi*audulent means have 
 been used to defeat the wiU of a majority of 
 the people of the Territory makes me the 
 more anxious and determined to have this 
 boundary if it is possible. 
 
 But, say some — and this is the argument 
 by which some gentlemen here, reaUy in 
 favor of an East and West line, wiU tiy to 
 solace themselves in voting for a North and 
 South line — the Enabling Act does not permit 
 us to have it. Now I am astonished when 
 sensible men like every man in this Conven- 
 tion, bring forward such an argument, and 
 more astonished when men known to be good 
 lawyers bring up such an argmnent. It is a 
 question which I will not argue here, that we 
 have the right without the Enabling Act, to 
 go on and frame a State Constitution. Now 
 
224 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— t'KiDAV, JuLt 31. 
 
 in what part of that Act is there any restric- 
 tion found ? In no section or line. 
 
 I think I know something about the origin 
 of this Enabhng Act, and I think I know 
 when the first petition was got up for such an 
 act. What was the use of petitions, said 
 many. The reply was, if we go on withoiit 
 an Enabling Act, the Territory will have to 
 bear the expense ; but if Congress passes an 
 Act, the expense will be defrayed by the 
 General Government. That was the argu- 
 ment I heard in favor of it. Now I take it 
 for granted that we have the right to go on 
 and form a Constitution without an Enabling 
 Act, and I say there is not a word in the 
 Enabhng Act passed, restricting us in any 
 sense. It merely affirms otu* power to do 
 what we had the power to do without it. The 
 very title shows that it is not an Act restrict- 
 ive. If then we are not restricted by that 
 Act, I hope no man will raise a cry again 
 about the Enabling Act. 
 
 Let that pass then,' and let us put the 
 matter upon its merits. Let us have some 
 reason why the East and West boundary 
 proposed in the substitute is not the best. I 
 say with my friend who spoke before me, 
 (Mr. McKune) — and I endorse every word 
 he said — that it seems to me perfectly clear 
 Miat the greatest good to the greatest number 
 of the people of Minnesota, would be derived 
 from a boundary different from that proposed 
 by the report of the committee. Why ? A 
 very good book says, "two cannot walk 
 " together unless they be agreed." That is 
 true. We have had proof ample of it. The 
 acts of our legislative bodies last winter are 
 proof sufficient. The acts of the legislative 
 body that made our present apportionment 
 is proof in point. And if you want more 
 proof, the events which have transpired within 
 this Hall within the last three weeks will 
 fuiTiish it. Those same Pembina members 
 representing a diversity of interest, and none 
 in common with us, come up again to disturb 
 our harmonious action. Take a State of the 
 length of this, with men living at one extreme 
 who follow different pursuits from those living 
 at the other extreme — or rather, following no 
 pursuit for a living. Take a population com- 
 posed of trappers, hunters, miners, lumber- 
 men — a sort of omnium gatherum of all 
 classes — living in one extreme, and an agri- 
 
 cultural class living at the other extreme, and 
 their interests are, and necesarily will be 
 diverse, and they can have no sort of feeling 
 in common. There wiU be distrust one of 
 the other, and legislative enactments which 
 suit the one will not suit the other. Take the 
 case which has lately transpired here at the 
 capitol. A certain party sees that it has not 
 carried its point in the election of Delegates 
 to this Convention. What does it do ? What 
 will it do in future in similar cases ? It resorts 
 to Pembina, and will again. She will do any 
 thing for them. 
 
 In the very face of this Enabling Act, 
 which they say so much about, they declare 
 that Pembina must have six members of this 
 Convention. Is there any pretence for it? 
 Is there any justice in it? Not at all. It is 
 not necessary to argue that point with this 
 Convention. But Pembina, very willing, very 
 ready and anxious to injure and thwart the 
 designs of Souttern Minnesota, is willing to 
 be made the pliant tool for anything. St. 
 Paul, I will say, if we have the boundaries of 
 the State as proposed by the report of the 
 committee, will have the balance of power in 
 her hands, and if we can judge the futm-e 
 from the past, I never wish St. Paul to have 
 the balance of power. I repeat it — because I 
 was taken to task for saying it once before — 
 I never wish St. Paul to have tt»e balance of 
 power. ^ 
 
 It is true southern Minnesota is populous,- 
 but St. Paul with these northern trappers 
 and miners, will always have the balance of 
 power, and when she wishes anythuig she 
 will make bargains with Pembina and will 
 get what she wants right or wrong, as she has 
 heretofore done. That is one reason why I 
 wish a different boundary and one which will 
 not of necessity give St. Paul the balance of 
 power. I speak not of the individual inhab- 
 itants of St. Paul. She has, like every other 
 place her good and her bad men. But I 
 speak of her politically and only of her poli- 
 tically — I mean the political leaders of St. 
 Paul. I never wish them to have any control 
 in any State of which I am a citizen. But 
 how can mo deprive her of it, without chang- 
 ing our boundaries ? 
 
 Another thing, it is always best to make a 
 State as nearly square as possible. That is 
 something that does not need proof. AVe do; 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, July 31. 
 
 225 
 
 not want for a State, a strip of country ex- 
 tending firom the British possessions down to 
 the Iowa line. We do not want to pay our 
 legislators, and all our other officers as much 
 in mileage as we do for per diem compensa- 
 tion. If gentlemen will look at the bounda- 
 ries of the State as proposed by the report of 
 the committee they will see that we shall have 
 to do that. We should have our State in as 
 compact form as possibjg so that our feelings 
 and interests should be identical, and those 
 who advocate such a boundary as is proposed 
 by the committee must see some very good 
 reason for neglecting every dictate of right 
 and prudence in the formation of such boun- 
 daries. I cannot see them. 
 
 Now why should we not have such boim- 
 daries as I have proposed ? Why should we 
 have imnatural boundaries here. Is it that 
 we may have the trade of a large State pass- 
 ing by the side of, rather than through it. 
 Grentlemen say here are the mining and the 
 lumbering interests. What does that amount 
 to ? The mining interest and the Imnbering 
 interest are good when they add to the wealth 
 of the State, if they develope wealth within 
 the State. That we should have lumber 
 growing in the State, and mining carried on 
 in the State is no good argument. We can- 
 not fear any duty or prohibition on their im- 
 portation, nor does the product of the forest 
 or the mine because it came from without 
 the State. Does om' wealth consist in our 
 pineries, in our minerals, or is it to be foimd 
 in the flourishing farms of Minnesota ? It is 
 only necessary to have the question asked, to 
 have it answered in our own minds. When 
 men talk of putting ovu: State in this imusual 
 shape for the purpose of making it more weal- 
 thy, it is for them to prove that it will be so. 
 I do not ask for a State such as I propose, 
 on account of its political aspects. That ar- 
 gmnent has been thrown out as the reason 
 why Southern Minnesota wishes an East and 
 West line. I say it comes with a bad grace 
 firom those who advance it. It is assertion 
 without proof. It is, too, an assertion which 
 needs proof, and very strong proof They 
 ought to show us the great necessity, before 
 they accuse us of being governed by selfish 
 motives and the great advantage of having a 
 State in so unusual and inconvenient a shape, 
 or else we must believe they have some local ' 
 29 
 
 or selfish object to attain by their proposed 
 line. 
 
 I hope gentlemen will not longer hide them- 
 selves beliind the Enabling Act. Let them 
 be manly, and come out upon this subject, 
 boldly and frankly, according to their real 
 sentiments. Do not permit a few interests 
 inside or outside to shape our course, and 
 above all things do not seek to scare us with 
 this Enabling Act. That act, I say again, 
 takes firom us no right we ever possessed 
 without it, and no man in this Hall will say 
 that Mmnesota has no right to come into the 
 Union without the Enabling Act. 
 
 But, say some, we a^e in peculiar circum- 
 stances, and we should endeavor to fii-ame a 
 Constitution with a view to its adoption. 
 Very well ; then I say adopt tliis East and 
 West line, and you will have the whole of 
 Southern Minnesota with you, notwithstand- 
 ing my firiend on my left thinks his county 
 is not in favor of such a measure. I have 
 meditated upon that subject much, and know- 
 ing the feelings of the people of my section of 
 the Territory, I do say you are not sure of 
 their votes imless you do adopt difierent 
 boundaries from those reported by the com- 
 mittee. Mark my words : You will always 
 find me, here, and after I leave this Hall, 
 working for the success of this Constitution ; 
 but I do say, I do not feel that certairfty of 
 its adoption with a North and South line, that 
 I would with an East and West line. I hope 
 gentlemen will take this matter into consider- 
 ation. Take a map of the State, look at it, 
 and see where its population mostly is, and I 
 think any man would naturally infer that an 
 East and West line is the line which the in- 
 terest of the people demand. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I feel called upon, in 
 defence of my own district and constituents, 
 to say a few words upon this very important 
 question. The great interest my constituents 
 have at stake in this matter, may well justify 
 any exhibition of deep feeling upon my part. 
 I am boimd to have more feeling upon the 
 subject than the gentleman fi-om Winona. 
 The East and West line does not propose to 
 disfi:tmchise any of that gentleman's constit- 
 uents, while it does a portion of mine. And 
 why should they be cut off? What good 
 reason can be assigned ? Let the gentleman 
 take a survey of the history of this Terri- 
 
226 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Feiday, July 31. 
 
 / tory. When the pineries of the St. Croix 
 were first opened in 1838, the only inhabit- 
 ants of this Territory were trappers, hunters, 
 and lumbermen ; and if I may be allowed to 
 say it, yea, those very trappers and lumbermen 
 of northern Minnesota, have made southern 
 Minnesota what she is — made it, somewhat as 
 the Almighty made the earth — out of nothing. 
 There was a time in the history of our Terri- 
 tory — and that not a long time back — when 
 there were no people in this Territory except 
 those living north and east of the Mississippi 
 river. 
 
 Now let us look at the acts of our Legisla- 
 ture, and see if s^e has been partial to 
 southern Minnesota. It was notorious, as 
 gentlemen well know, that our first Legisla- 
 ture was said to be under the influence of the 
 fur interest. I know something about our 
 history, as I have been in the Territory for 
 seven years. At the time the last apportion- 
 ment was made, the Legislature was nearly 
 equally divided. The fur interest insisted 
 upon the old apportionment, while the farmers 
 along the Mississippi, and the lumbermen, 
 were disposed to have a new apportionment. 
 Gentlemen have seen fit to reflect upon Pem- 
 bina. But it was through the Pembina votes 
 that southern Minnesota got -anything like a 
 fair apportionment, and representation, al- 
 though I am not here to justify all the acts 
 done in that regard. 
 
 I come from a lumbering district, and I 
 cannot sit here and allow gentleman from any 
 portion of the Territory to say anything which 
 will detract from the character of my con- 
 stituents. I know they have good heads and 
 noble hearts. 
 
 They forego all the privileges of society 
 one half of the year for the purpose of de- 
 veloping those means which are fast making 
 us a great and wealthy country. I presume 
 that southern Minnesota is all that gentlemen 
 claim for it. I do not deny it, but I had sup- 
 posed that this question was long since dis- 
 posed of, and that hereafter we should move 
 along hand in hand. Living in the northern 
 portion of the Territory, I am willing that 
 southern Minnesota should have a preponder- 
 ance in our deliberative bodies. I am willing 
 to throw myself upon their good judgment, 
 and tender mercies in that respect. But we, 
 of the St. Croix river, claim that we were the 
 
 first to open the soil of Minnesota to produc- 
 tive industry, and we claim that we should be 
 heard in determining the boundaries of our 
 future State. 
 
 It may be that a majority of the people of 
 the Territory are in favor of an East and 
 West line. If so, I do not know it. But 
 there is one thing I would remind gentlemen 
 of, and that is that there is an overruling 
 power in Congress so to divide our Territory, 
 not only to suit us, but with a view to the 
 formation of other States. Congress certainly 
 must feel disposed to prescribe the lines 'of 
 every State more in accordance with justice 
 and generosity than the people themselves of 
 any State. I desire to say nothing now about 
 that which I regard to be the wealth of the 
 northern portion of our Tenitory. I ijelieve 
 that a variety of pursuits tends to promote 
 happiness, and the more of the native ele- 
 ments of wealth we have within our borders 
 the more sure we are of success and pros- 
 perity. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I propose to trouble the 
 Convention with but few remarks. I am op- 
 posed and ever have been opposed to the 
 North and South line, and I have felt chagrined 
 that Congress should undertake to force upon 
 us a boundary which is not what we desire. 
 When I look at the proposed boupdaries of 
 Minnesota, stretching away far to the north- 
 west some five or six hmidred miles, I cannot 
 but think that there is a possession there 
 which is not very desirable. I am in favor of 
 the line proposed in the amendment. Take 
 that line and contrast it with that prescribed 
 by Congress, and what will be the difference 
 between the two States ? Minnesota with the 
 boundary proposed by my friend from Wino- 
 na, would be an agricultural State, possessing 
 all the advantages of a rich and inexhausti- 
 ble soil and a salubrious climate ; while on 
 the other hand at the extreme northern limit 
 there is a countiy great and inconceivable in 
 extent, but one that would hang upon our 
 interest and prosperity lilce an incubus. Wis- 
 consin changed her condition from a Tenitory 
 to a State under an Act of Congress similar 
 to ours, yet her Constitutional Convention did 
 not consider themselves bound by the boun- 
 daries therein prescribed. They looked upon 
 it as an open question, and it is an open ques- 
 tion with us. The interests of northern Min- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Feidat, July 81. 
 
 227 
 
 nesota are not identified with ours and they 
 cannot be. I hope the amendment of the 
 gentleman from TTinona will be adopted. 
 
 Mr. NORTH, ilr. Chairman, I dislike to 
 cut off any gentleman from making a speech 
 on this question, but when I remember the 
 urgent suggestions of last evening, to crowd 
 along the business, and get through some 
 time, it strikes me that we ou^t to make 
 better progress. 
 
 I call for the question on the substitute. 
 
 The substitute was rejected. 
 • Mr. COGGSTVT^iL. Mr. Chairman, I now 
 ofiFer the following amendment : 
 
 " Protidfd, Tiowever, That the following altera- 
 tion of the aforesaid boundary be and the same la 
 hereby proposed to the Congress of the United 
 States as the preference of the State of Minnesota; 
 and if the same shall be agreed to by the Congress 
 of the United States, that the same shall ever re- 
 main obligatory on the people of Minnesota with- 
 out any further act upon her part, viz : commen- 
 cing at the north-east comer of the State of Iowa 
 where the same terminates in the channel of the 
 Mississippi river ; thence west along the northern 
 line of the said State of Iowa to the line of longitude 
 numbered ninety-seren degrees west; thence north 
 along said line of longitude till the same reafches 
 the forty-sixth degree of north latiude ; thence 
 due east along said line of latitude, till the same 
 reaches the centre of the channel of the St Croix 
 river ; thence down the main channel of the said 
 river to the centre of the main channel of the 
 Mississippi river ; thence down the main channel 
 of said Mississippi river to the place of begin- 
 ning." 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Mr. Chairman, I move 
 that the committee now rise and report the 
 article and amendment to the Convention, 
 with a recommendation that the amendment 
 be indefinitely postponed.. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Mr. Chairman, be- 
 fore the question is put, I wish to make a few 
 remarks in regard to the amendment. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I withdraw the mo- 
 tion for the gentleman. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Mr. Ghaikmas:— I am 
 now fully satisfied as to the prevailing senti- 
 ments of this committee, upon this East and 
 West line question, and what will be the fate of 
 amendment. Nevertheless, it is well known 
 that I represent here, together with my friend 
 upon my right (Mr. Davis) four counties which 
 are more or less interested in this subject — 
 particularly the county of Nicollet. And it 
 being my duty to reflect the sentiments of my 
 
 constituency, and her views in regard to 
 this matter, I should prove recreant to the 
 trust reposed in me, were I to omit to dis- 
 charge my duty in this respect. 
 
 Mr. Chatrmax : — I know that this commit- 
 mittee are exceedingly anxious to come to a 
 vote upon this amendment, and intend to kill 
 it by an overwhelming majority, but I hope 
 they will indulge me a few moments, and I 
 assmre them I will be short. 
 
 Now, gentlemen, open your maps. My 
 amendment proposes a line that commences 
 at the North-East comer of the State of Iowa, 
 thence West to the seventy-seventh degree of 
 West longitude, thence North until it reaches 
 the forty-sixth degree of North latitude, 
 thence East along said line of latitude untQ it 
 reaches the St Croix river, thence down the 
 main channel of said river to the center of 
 the channel of the Mississippi River, thence 
 down the Mississippi to the place of beginning. 
 In my judgment, that line and those bounda- 
 ries are the proper ones. ^T^y? First, 
 because it makes the State nearly square. 
 Second, because it makes a State about the 
 size of Iowa — a little smaller than Missouri — 
 about the size of Arkansas — about the size 
 of Illinois — a little larger than Indiana — a 
 Uttle smaller than Ohio — in feet, about the 
 right size, Sir. 
 
 There can be no objection to it, then, on 
 the ground of its not being of the right size, 
 or of its being in a convenient shape, or in as 
 compact form as possible. No objections so 
 far. 
 
 Next, it comprises a tract of Territory 
 which at no very distant day will be entirely 
 settled up, by a thriving, industrious, intelli- 
 gent population. Sir, it has been my good 
 fortune to travel somewhat over the western 
 portion of the tract embraced in my amend- 
 ment, during the month of Jime last, and I 
 (an say from my own personal observation 
 that all along on the head waters of the Des 
 Moines, on the eastern branches nmning into 
 the Big ^ioux, or the Big Sioux itself, (most 
 of which is inside of these limits) on the Big 
 and Little Waraja, and indeed the whole 
 country there, is as rich and fertile as ever 
 lay out of doors. And who ever lives to see 
 ten years from to-day, will see upon nearly 
 every quarter-section in that whole country 
 a thriving and prosperous fermer, and they, 
 
228 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, Jdly 31. 
 
 Sir, are the back bone, the sinew of our Ter- 
 ritory. In reference to this matter of St. 
 Paul, which has been lugged into this debate, 
 and the controlling influence which she has, or 
 has not heretofore exercised, I have nothing 
 to say. If we are to be ruled or controlled 
 by any of the Saints, it makes no difference 
 to me whether it be by Saint Paul, or Saint 
 Anthony, or Saint Cloud, or Sai?it Peter 
 Sir, I do not believe the people of Minnesota 
 will suffer themselves to be controlled by 
 any of these sanctimonious gentlemen. But 
 I take the high ground that in carving out 
 oiu- State, and fixing her boundaries, it is our 
 duty to look somewhat into the future, and 
 say that we will make her a rich and pop- 
 ulous State — a farming State — an agricul- 
 tural State. As I have said, nearly every 
 quarter-section of land within these limits is 
 capable of supporting a good farmer — a good 
 farmer with a good large family, and every 
 farmer has a large family or ought to have 
 one. (Laughter.) ^ 
 
 Now, Sir, when we go North of this line 
 of forty-six degrees, what kind of a country 
 do we find ? A lumbering country, you all 
 admit — a country of vast and extensive 
 forests — reaching to the British Possessions, 
 a distance of two hundred and forty miles in 
 a direct line. I do not pretend to say they 
 are not valuable — that their lumber is not 
 with us a desideratum, that it will not add to 
 tho comfort and convenience of our inhabit- 
 ants, that it will not increase our wealth. 
 But I do sayi Sir, that all this will be brought 
 about, and to the same extent with the 
 boundaries that I propose, or in other words, 
 Mr. Chairman, that this imaginary line will 
 not operate as an everlasting boom, stopping 
 all the logs and lumber at the line of forty-six 
 degrees North latitude, and that forever after 
 we must build our houses of bass-wood, 
 poplar, and burr oak. 
 
 It is also substantially admitted here upon 
 this floor, that this northern re^on will never 
 be settled ap by a permanent, home abiding 
 population. When on a former occasion we 
 spoke of changing the day of holding our 
 general election, from the Tuesday next suc- 
 ceeding the first Monday ^of October, to the 
 first of November, the cry was raised, " why 
 "gentlemen we have a largo class of persons 
 "who start for the lumber regions ju.st before 
 
 "that time, and stay during the winter, and in 
 "the spring return, and if you do this, you de- 
 "prive a large class of our citizens from exer- 
 "cising the privilege of the elective franchise." 
 What does this mean? Does it not mean 
 that this whole lumber region will never be 
 occupied by any other than a floating popu- 
 lation, a transient population, a population 
 existing one day and extinct the next ? Not 
 so south of this line. Here you meet a class 
 of persons who are always at home, who have 
 around them well cultivated fields, ample 
 means for their sustenance the year round, 
 and ten times the aggregate wealth which you 
 find around the cabin of the isolated lumber- 
 man. And, sir, if you would condescend to 
 consider the question of taxes, the raismg of 
 revenue for the purpose of defi:aying the 
 legitimate expenses of the State government, 
 and go upon both sides of this proposed line 
 you would soon discover the difierence. How 
 much could you raise north of it? Suppose 
 you wanted means to pay your Governors, 
 your Secretaries of State, your judges, your 
 members of the Legislature, to build your 
 State houses, your Court houses, your jails, 
 your everything else, where will you go to get 
 them ? Sir, I will tell you where you will get 
 them : you will get them among the farmers 
 who will live inside the boundaries proposed 
 by my amendment. Where nothing is, noth- 
 ing can be obtained. Where an abundance 
 is, there is the place to ask for favors. Now, 
 sir, I wish to know what it is that has caused 
 such a defection in the ranks of our East and 
 West line men, what has come over the spirit 
 of theu- dreams to cause them to right-about 
 ftice on this questipn. 
 
 Sir, I do not pretend to be posted in the 
 history of this subject, and I do wish I could 
 blot from my memory some matters now 
 thereon indelibly impressed. I do wish I 
 could not remember the time, which has not 
 long since gone by, when St. Paul herself 
 recommended the adoption of an East and 
 West lino — when even the Pioneer and Dem- 
 ocrat recommended it. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. A bad recommenda- 
 tion, that. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Perhaps so, Mr. 
 Chairman ; but I wish I could forget all this, 
 for charity 'ssake, and for the purpose of show- 
 ing that many gentlemen who now oppose 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, July SI. 
 
 229 
 
 this plan of boundary, are firee from gross in- 
 consistencies. 
 
 I was trained in that school which taught 
 me to believe that principles were eternal no 
 matter how often men may change ; and I ask, 
 gentlemen, how it is, that this doctrine of an 
 East and "West line was correct a short time 
 ago, and wrong now ? If it was right when 
 advocated by Governors, by Legislatures, by 
 the public press, by private citizens, by a 
 majority of the people of southern Minne- 
 sota, why, in the name of. Heaven is it wrong 
 for me to take the same position ? And with 
 what kind of a grace can those men charge 
 me with attempting to commit a gross fraud 
 upon the people, upon the best interests of 
 this Territory, with attempting to engraft into 
 the Constitution an arrangement which will 
 defeat it before the people ? 
 
 I do not see how it is that men can change 
 so often ; I do not see how it is that men can 
 so skillfuUy " play upon a harp of a thousand 
 "strings." I tell you, Mr. Chairman, that 
 the history of our Territory for the next fifty 
 years to come, wiU tell you in thimder tones, 
 that our action here to-day upon this subject 
 was unwise — was clearly wrong. 
 
 You may gag us with your previous ques- 
 tions — you may sit imeasy while listening to 
 a rehearsal of these facts, but I would be un- 
 true to my nature, and to a large class of my 
 constituents, were I to sit by and see the 
 report of the committee adopted, and not 
 enter my protest against it. There are other 
 points to which I would like to refer, namely : 
 To the binding force of the action of this 
 Convention at its commencement; to the 
 probability of our Constitution being de- 
 feated by the people vrith my amendment 
 attached, but I promised to be short, and I quit. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I now move that the 
 committee rise, report the article to the Con- 
 vention and recommend its adoption. 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 So the committee rose, and the Chairman 
 reported aQcordingly. 
 
 The question being on concurring in the 
 recommendation of the committee. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Mr. President, I wish to 
 oflfer this paper as a substitute for the report. 
 
 The substitute was was read by the Secre- 
 tary — the same as that submitted by Mr. 
 Wilson in committee of the Whole. 
 
 The yeas and nays being demanded, ordered 
 and taken upon the adoption of the substi- 
 tute, the result was, yeas fifteen, and nays 
 thirty-seven as follows : 
 
 Yeas. — Messrs. Anderson, Balcombe, Billings, 
 Butler, Coggswell, Coe, Davis, Grerrish, Mantor, 
 McCann, McCnne, Mills, Robbins, Thompson, and 
 Wilson. — 15. 
 
 3ay«. — Messrs. Aldrich, Aver, Baldwin, Bates, 
 Bartholomew, BoUes, Cleghom, Colburn, Coombs, 
 Eschlie, Folsom, GaIbraith,'Hayden, Harding, Hud- 
 son, Hanson, Holley, Kemp, Lyle, Lowe, McClure, 
 Messer, Morgan, Murphy, North, Phelps, Perkins, 
 Putnam, Peckham, Russell, Stannard, Secombe, 
 Smith, Vaughn, Walker, Watson, and Sheldon.-37. 
 
 So the substitute was rejected. 
 
 The question recurred on concurring in the 
 recommendation of the committee of the 
 Whole. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. Mr. Chairman, I offer 
 the following amendment, merely for the sake 
 of accuracy in the description : 
 
 "In the tenth line, after the word 'said,' and 
 before the word 'river,' insert ' Bois des Sioux.' " 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Mr. President, I 
 would inquire whether the botmdaries here 
 proposed are not word for word the same with 
 the Enabling Act? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chamnan of the 
 committee, who made the report can answer. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. The words of the report 
 are the same as in the Enabling Act. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I am aware of that. The 
 amendment does not change the sense. It 
 only describes the line more distinctly. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. Mr. Chairman, I also offer 
 an amendment in the fifteenth line — after the 
 word " State," insert the words, " of Iowa." 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I have also an amend- 
 ment for the sixteenth line — after the word 
 " said," and before the word " river," insert 
 the word "Mississippi." 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 And then, on the motion of Mr. THOMP- 
 SON, the rules were so far suspended as to 
 allow the article to be referred to the commit- 
 tee on Arrangement and Phraseology. 
 
 And it was so referred. 
 
 EXGB0SS5IEST. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH, from the committee on the 
 Executive Department, now reported the arti- 
 cle (report No. two from that committee) as 
 
230 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Feiday, July 31. 
 
 correctly engrossed; and on his motion, it 
 was referred to the committee on Arrange- 
 ment and Phraseology. 
 
 OEGANIZATION OF CITIES AND VILLAGES. 
 
 On motion of Mr. CLEGHORN, the Con- 
 vention resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole, Mr. North in the Chair, to take into 
 consideration the article submitted in the 
 report (No. nine) from the committee on the 
 organization of Cities and Villages. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN read the article, as 
 follows : 
 
 Sec. 1. The Legislature shall grant an Act of 
 Incorporation establishing the form of a City 
 Government for any place or portion of Territory, 
 which at the time does not contain a resident pop- 
 ulation of not less than three thousand. Nor shall 
 the Legislature grant any special act for the incor- 
 poration of any town or village which does not at 
 the time contain a resident population of not less 
 than five hundred, 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. Mr. Chairman: I 
 move to strike out from the section all after 
 the word " thousand " in the fourth line. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. Mr. Chairman : I move to 
 strike out the whole. I look Upon it as a 
 mere nullity. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES' motion was agreed to. So 
 the section was stricken out. 
 
 On the motion of Mr. THOMPSON, the 
 committee rose, and the Chairman reported 
 the amendment to the Convention. 
 
 The question being on striking out the 
 section — 
 
 Mr. MORGAN said: Mr. President: I 
 wish to say that the committee on this subject 
 were ^doubtful from the first, whether this 
 whole matter might not be safely left with the 
 Legislature. But, on consideration, it was 
 thought better to submit a report, and allow 
 the Convention to say whether it were best to 
 restrict the Legislature in the matter of grant- 
 ing charters to cities and towns. It is well 
 known, that heretofore the Legislature have 
 granted town and village charters to a con- 
 siderable extent. I understand that forty or 
 fifty w.ere granted last winter, though those 
 laws have not yet seen the light ; and that a 
 great many of these charters have been for 
 localities where there were no inhabitants ; 
 towns whose locations had never been visited, 
 and whose exact geographical position are not 
 yet known. If the Convention do not see fit 
 to put any restriction upon the Legislature in 
 
 such cases, the committee will be perfectly 
 content. Their only design was to bring the 
 question up. 
 
 Mr. MURPHY. Mr. President : As this 
 report has been drawn up with a great deal 
 of labor and care, and has doubtless cost the 
 committee a good deal of time and thought, I 
 hope it will be treated with due respect by 
 the Convention. (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I have no objection to 
 the first part of the section, but the last, I 
 think, is wrong. The object in obtaining 
 grants of charters for towns in the Territory 
 has been to avoid the fee of the Judge of the 
 Court, where the title has been in him, or to 
 come through him — that proprietors might 
 enter under the act, and save that expense. 
 
 The amendment of the committee of the 
 Whole was adopted. 
 
 So the report was wholly stricken out. 
 
 EDUCATIONAL INTERESTS, AC 
 
 On motion of Mr. NORTH, the Conven- 
 tion resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole (Mr. McClure in the chair) upon the 
 report of the committee on Educational Insti- 
 tutions and interests. 
 
 The report was read by sections for amend- 
 ment. (For report see proceedings of July 
 twenty-ninth.) 
 
 Sec. 2. The proceeds of all lands that have 
 been, or that may hereafter be granted by the 
 United States for the support of schools, which 
 may be sold or disposed of, and all estates of de- 
 ceased persons who may have died without leaving 
 a will or heir, shall be and remain a perpetual fund, 
 the interest of which, together with all the rents 
 of the unsold lands, and such other means as the 
 Legislature shall provide, shall be exclusively 
 applied to the following objects, viz: 
 
 First. — The support and maintenance of com- 
 mon schools iti each school district, and the pur- 
 chase of suitable libraries and apparatus therefor. 
 
 Second. — The residue shall be appropriated to 
 the support and maintenance of academies and 
 normal schools, and suitable Libraries therefor. 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. I move to strike out from 
 the second clause of that section all after the 
 words " shall be," and insert in lieu thereof 
 the words " added to the perpetual fund," so 
 that the clause will read " the residue shall 
 be added to the perpetual fund." I move 
 the amendment in order to prevent incorpora- 
 tions from getting hold of the money which 
 rightfully belongs to the common schools. 
 It is quite common for academies and normal 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbid at, Jcly 31. 
 
 231 
 
 schools to be established by incorporated 
 companies, and they are often able to crush 
 out the common schools of whole townships, 
 while at the same time there may be many 
 children in those townships who are not able 
 to avail themselves of those high schools. I 
 would rather see the residue added to the 
 perpetual fund for the support of common 
 schools. 
 
 Mr. BALDWIN. I am opposed to the 
 amendment. This section proposes that the 
 fund shall be first appropriated to the support 
 and maintenance of common - schools in each 
 school district, and the purchase of suitable 
 hbraries and apparatus therefor, and then the 
 residue is to be applied to the support of 
 academies and normal schools. Now I 
 believe that academies have a good efiect upon 
 common schools, and tend to raise the stand- 
 ard of education. Normal schools are for the 
 pm^ose of educating teachers for common 
 schools. These are very important interests 
 in the State, and it seems to me that they 
 should receive aid from the State. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. As the matter now stands 
 in the section, I do not see how the fimd can 
 well be divided without much contention, and 
 for that reason I prefer to see the residue go 
 into the perpetual fund. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I would inquire if the 
 term " common school" would not include 
 normal schools and academies, if established 
 by legislative provisions ? The common 
 schools, I suppose, are to be established by a 
 law of the Legislatinre, and they can doubt- 
 less grade those schools and establish some 
 having the character of academies. It is not 
 necessarily to be presumed that no branch 
 higher than reading, writing and arithmetic, 
 are taught in common schools. I think the 
 term " common school" may cover the whole 
 ground. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move to amend 
 the amendment by inserting the words "com- 
 "mon school" before the word "fund," so 
 that it shall read, " common school fund." 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. I accept the amendment. 
 
 The amendment as modified was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. I move to amend the 
 first subdivision of the section by striking out 
 the words " in each school district." It seems 
 to me we ought not to inaugurate a system of 
 district schools at the very commencement of 
 
 our State or^nization. A more unfortunate 
 arrangement for common schools has never 
 been adopted than that of the district system. 
 The system of graded schools is much better. 
 If we are to have township organizations, it 
 seems to me the schools should be left to the 
 management of towns, instead of smaller por- 
 tions, called districts. Then a graded system 
 can be adopted, by which the children and 
 youth of the State will have the privilege of 
 enjoying not only the primary instruction of 
 common schools, but that of higher, schools, 
 in which they may be fitted for the university. 
 I hope such a system will be adopted as will 
 give to the youth of the State the best possi- 
 ble instruction the State can give. 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 "Sec. 3. The Legislature shall within five 
 years from the adoption of this Constitution pro- 
 vide for and establish a system of common schools, 
 which shall be as nearly uniform as practicable, 
 whereby a school shall be kept without charge for 
 tuition, at least three months in each year, in every 
 school district in the State, and all instruction in 
 said school shall be in the English language, and 
 no sectarian instruction shall be allowed therein." 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I move to strike out aU 
 after the word " practicable" down to and in- 
 cluding the word " language." 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I move to amend the 
 amendment by simply striking out the words 
 " and all instruction in said schools shall be 
 " in the English language." 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I am opposed to' the 
 amendment to the amendment, and to the 
 original amundment also. I hope the com- 
 mittee will not pass over this matter in haste. 
 This is a very interesting subject to me and 
 ought to be to every member upon this floor. 
 A well digested system should be adopted. 
 And I remark here, that it seems to me that 
 we were rather hasty in taking up this report 
 this afternoon, as it has but just been put 
 upon our desks, and we have not had time 
 to look it over, reflect upon it, and contrast 
 it with any other system we may have in our 
 minds. If any gentleman offers an amend- 
 ment I hope he will be able to ^ve a good 
 reason for it, and have it discussed thorough- 
 ly. I myself was opposed to the other amend- 
 ment which was made. I am in favor of the old 
 feshioned school district system, and in favor 
 of firee schools as much as three months in 
 the year. 
 
232 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satukday, August 1. 
 
 But I do not profess to be suflBciently well 
 posted on this subject to discuss it now, and 
 if any gentleman is familiar with the minutia 
 of this matter I hope he will give us his views 
 upon it. 
 
 Mr. THOMPSON. I agree with the gen- 
 tleman from Winona. This report has been 
 but just laid on our tables. I move that the 
 committee rise and ask leave to sit again. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The committee accordingly rose and report- 
 ed progress and asked leave to sit again. 
 
 Leave was granted. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I move that this report 
 be made the special order of the day for Mon- 
 day next. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I object to that for the 
 reason that we have no other report before us 
 with which we are any more familiar than 
 with this, and in fact I do not know as we 
 have any other that we can act upon to-mor- 
 row. I think a vote of this kind would be 
 equivalent to passing the day in idleness. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. We do not need a great 
 deal of time for the examination of this re- 
 port. We can be prepared to act upon it to- 
 morrow, and if we put off the time any 
 longer each of us will come armed with so 
 many amendments that we should not get 
 through with it in one day. 
 
 The motion was lost. 
 
 And then on motion of Mr. NORTH, (at 
 five o'clock) the Convention adjourned. 
 
 EIGHTEENTH DAY. 
 
 Satubday, August 1st, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. m. 
 The journal of yesterday was read and 
 approved. 
 
 LEAVE OP ABSENCE. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN from the committee on 
 Leave of Absence made a verbal report, re- 
 commending that leave of absence be granted 
 to Mr. Bartholomew until Tuesday the fourth 
 day of August. 
 
 Leave was granted. 
 
 AMENDMENT OF RULES. 
 
 Mr. THOMPSON. I wish to suggest the 
 propriety of amending our rules so that after 
 the second reading of a report, and its con- 
 
 sideration in the committee of the Whole it 
 may be referred to the committee on Ai-range- 
 ment and Phraseology. The reports would 
 then be amendable upon the suggestion of 
 that committee. Rule thirty-seven now reads : 
 " Every article when read a third time and passed 
 shall be referred to the committee on Arrangement 
 and Phraseology." 
 
 I move to strike out the words " third time 
 " and passed," and insert " a second time and 
 " considered in committee of the Whole." 
 
 Mr. BATES. It seems to me we shall get 
 into trouble by pursuing that course. How 
 can that committee perform their duty in 
 reference to these reports, until they are per- 
 fected ? 
 
 Mr. THOMPSON. My view of the mat- 
 ter was that by referring the reports to that 
 committee after a second reading and consid- 
 eration in committee of the AVhole, they could 
 report them back to the Convention, with a 
 recommendation that they be amended in 
 such respects as they thought necessary. 
 That could not be done after the reports are 
 perfected and engrossed. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS, &C. 
 
 On motion of Mr.' HARDING the Conven- 
 tion resolved itself into the committee of the 
 Whole, (Mr. McClube in the Chair) upon the 
 report of the commmittee on Educational In- 
 stitutions and Interests. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN stated that the pending 
 question, when the committee last had this 
 subject under consideration, was a motion to 
 strike aU out after the word " practicable," 
 down to, and including the word "language," 
 in the third section, and an amendment to that 
 amendment, which was to strike out only the 
 words, "and all instruction in said schools 
 " shall be in the english language." 
 
 Mr. LYLE. I have a substitute which I 
 desire to offer, for the whole report. AVill it 
 be in order to offer it now ? 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. It wiU not be in order 
 until the sense of the Convention is taken 
 upon the pending amendment, or they are 
 laid upon the table. 
 
 Mr. H A YDEN. I move to lay the amend- 
 ment, and the amendments to the amendment 
 upon the table. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I offered the amendment 
 to the amendment, and it seems to me that 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satcrdat, Acgcst 1. 
 
 233 
 
 the gentleman who moves to lay it upon the 
 table, does not really understand the matter. 
 It would seem almost unnecessary to go into 
 an argument to show the propriety of adopt- 
 ing my amendment. I hope this Convention 
 will not be guilty of restricting instruction in 
 our common schools, to the English language. 
 "We have a large population in this Territory 
 who do not understand English, and who de- 
 sire the benefit of common schools. Some 
 neighborhoods may think it desu-able to have 
 common schools taught in some language 
 other than English, and I should hope that 
 we will regard their interests and wishes, and 
 not restrict our system in such a manner that 
 they will be deprived of the benefits of com- 
 mon schools. 
 
 Again, I hope we shall .not festrict the ap- 
 plication of our school fund, so that it cannot 
 be applied to the support of a graded system 
 of schools, teaching the higher branches. 
 That system of schools has been established 
 in some bf ovir western States, and it has 
 been found very acceptable and beneficial. 
 They prove useful to the community, and 
 many individuals cannot get a competent ed- 
 ucation to do business without them. 
 
 I trust my amendment wUl be adopted. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I understand the amend- 
 ment to be to strike out all after the word 
 "practicable," down to and including the 
 word "language." The amendment to the 
 amendment, is to strike out only the words : 
 " and all instruction in sard schools shall be 
 " in the English language." 
 
 Now the last amendment is included in the 
 first — the lesser is included in the greater. 
 It seems to me that it would be better if the 
 gentleman would withdraw the amendment 
 to the amendment, imtil the question is taken 
 upon the first amendment. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I moved to lay both 
 amendments upon the table. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The motion was not 
 seconded, and the question is upon the amend- 
 ment to the amendment. 
 
 Mr. SHELDON. I am in favor of the 
 second amendment, but not in favor of the 
 first. I have some Uttle acquaintance with 
 the system of graded schools as established 
 in the State of Ohio, and I am greatly in &- 
 vor of that system, so far as circumstances 
 Will admit of its adoption. It will be readily 
 30 
 
 perceived, fix)m the very idea of such schools, 
 that they cannot be adopted except where the 
 population is sufficiently dense to afford a 
 large nimaber of scholars. It consists of a 
 classification of schools, embracing a primary 
 school, a grammar school, a high school &c, 
 or such nmnber of schools of different grades 
 as circumstances may demand. It will be 
 seen at a glance, that such a system possesses 
 great advantage in imparting instruction. It 
 has been found, in Ohio, greatly to raise the 
 standard of common school education. It is 
 also econijmical, from the fact that the schol- 
 ars are classified according to ages and at- 
 tainments, and these placed under different 
 teachers, and all superintended by the in- 
 struction in the high school department. It 
 has raised up a class of accomplished and 
 efficient teachers, thereby making teaching a 
 desirable profession, sought for rather than 
 shunned. It has dignified the business of 
 teaching. 
 
 There seems to be an impression with some 
 that a system of graded schools conflicts with 
 the district system. That is erroneous. The 
 two are consistent with each other. The dis- 
 trict system prevails in Ohio, while the large 
 towns, which can support a system of graded 
 schools, do so. I do not see how the district 
 system can be dispensed with in rural dis- 
 tricts, where the number of scholars are quite 
 limited. 
 
 It seems to me that we are, in this article, 
 going too much into the minutia of legislation. 
 A general provision should be adopted, but 
 we need not mention either the district sys- 
 tem or the graded system. Let that matter 
 be left to the Legislature. If anything is to 
 be stricken out here, I should favor striking 
 out what is proposed to be stricken out by 
 the second amendment. In the graded sys- 
 tem the classics are taught, and the poorest 
 persons in the land can pass through the diff- 
 erent grades and be fitted to enter the higher 
 institutions of learning. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. Under ordinary cir- 
 cumstances, I should be opposed to the inser- 
 tion of this section as reported by the com- 
 mittee. The system is one which I would 
 propose myself, being in favor of the old fash- 
 ioned district school system — the real demo- 
 cratic system. But, under present circum- 
 stances, I am inclined to believe we had bet- 
 
^34 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 1. 
 
 ter make one or two general provisions in the 
 Constitution, and leave the minutia to the first 
 Legislature. I come to that conclusion for 
 the reason that there is not a disposition 
 among a majority of the members of this 
 Convention to remain here and discuss thor- 
 oughly this subject and other subjects, which 
 are really matters of great interest to the peo- 
 ple at large. There is a disposition to discuss 
 such subjects as capital pimishment, women's 
 •rights, and matters of that character. This 
 is a subject in wliich the people feel more 
 interest than in almost any other. It will be 
 talked over in the most distant portions of 
 the Territory, more than any other subject in 
 the Constitution. It will arouse discussion 
 in every little neighborhood, and if we are to 
 adopt any specific system, we should take at 
 least one full week for its consideration. Are 
 we ready to do that ? We are not willing to 
 spend time over the most impoi-tant portions 
 of the Constitution, but we wiU spend time 
 over subjects in which the people feel very 
 'little interest. 
 
 Hence I am opposed to the amendments, 
 -and when they are voted down, I shall favor 
 the substitute which my friend upon the right 
 (Mr. Lyle) has to offer, which is general in 
 iits nature, leaving the minutia of the system 
 to the first Legislature. They will assemble 
 and remain in session ninety days, and have 
 sufficient time to perfect this system. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. If the gentleman from 
 Mower wishes to offer a substitute, I will 
 withdraw my amendment to the amendment. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I withdraw the original 
 amendment. 
 
 Mr. LYLE. I offer the following substi- 
 tute for the whole report : 
 
 Sec. 1. The principal of all funds, arising from 
 the sale or other disposition of lands or other 
 property, granted or entrusted to the State for 
 educational purposes, shall forever remain inviq- 
 latc and undiminished; and the income arising 
 therefrom, shall be faithfully applied to the specific 
 objects of the original grants or appropriations. 
 
 Sec. 2. The Legislature shall make such pro- 
 visions, by taxation or otherwise, as, with the in- 
 come arising from the school trust fund, will 
 secure a thorough and efBcieut system of common 
 schools throughout the State; but no religious 
 sect or sects shall ever have any exclusive right 
 to or contro^ of, any part of the school funds of 
 this State. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I do not know as it is nec- 
 
 essary to make any remarks upon the substi- 
 tute, but I hope it will be adopted for the 
 reason stated by the gentleman from Winona, 
 (Mr. Balcombe). We cannot go into the 
 minutia of this matter, and for that reason I 
 am in favor of leaving it with the Legislature. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. So far as I have read the 
 report of the committee, it is very good, but 
 it is very lengthy, and, as has been remarked, 
 there are points which would necessarily have 
 to be discussed at considerable length. Some 
 seem to be in favor of the township, and 
 others, of the disti'ict system. I am decidedly 
 in favor of the district system for this new 
 country. I think, however, that the sub 
 stitute covers all the ground that we should 
 go o'<^er in our Constitution. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I am afraid we are going 
 to take the back track without sufficiently 
 looking at the matter. The disposition of 
 this school fund is something we should be 
 very careful about. Look at Wisconsin. 
 What became of th« school fund of that State ? 
 Squandered, almost all of it. Is it not nec- 
 essary that we should throw some restrictions 
 around the disposition of these school lands, 
 lest we should be served in the same manner 
 as the people of Wisconsin have been served ? 
 The substitute leaves room for making too 
 much money by the Legislature, if there are 
 men base enough to make it in that way. It 
 is notorious that Wisconsin had a larger fund 
 than any State ever before had. We should 
 act cautiously. There are restrictions con- 
 tained in the report of the committee, which, 
 I think, we should adhere to. 
 
 As to the matter of having the classics 
 taught in our common schools, I will say that 
 I am in favor of every boy and girl studying 
 the classics, but not at the public expense. 
 Common schools should be preparatory to a 
 classical education. I am in favor of the 
 report as it stands. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. The substitute might be 
 modified in some respects, but substantially 
 it is right and ought to pass. I think it ought 
 to pass for the very reason urged by the last 
 gentleman who spoke against its passage — 
 that it is a matter of great importance, if wo 
 are going to have a large school fund, that it 
 should not be disposed of permanently with- 
 out a great deal of reflection and deliberation. 
 Now I do not believe that any gentleman of 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 1. 
 
 235. 
 
 I 
 
 this Convention has bestowed upon the sub- 
 ject all the thought he ought to bestow upon 
 it, before advising how that permanent dispo- 
 sition shall be made. I do not advocate the 
 adoption of the substitute for the same reason 
 that one gentleman from Winona (Mr. Bal- 
 combe) did — a disposition upon tlie part of 
 this body to bestow more attention upon un- 
 important rather than important matters. I 
 do not think that is the case, but I believe 
 tills Convention is satisfied that a subject of 
 tliis importance requires more reflection, 
 attention, thought and care, than we are able 
 to give to it at this time. 
 
 I am in favor of a good, thorough, and 
 efficient system of district schools, of the 
 New England plan, and of district schools 
 generally. So far as I am acquainted with it, 
 that system has worked well, though it might 
 be improved in some respects, I have no 
 doubt. I am opposed to this Convention 
 assuming all the wisdom which will ever be 
 necessary to lay down a plan which shall 
 forever be permanent. It is anticipating the 
 the wisdom of future ages to do it. I am in 
 fevor of progress in this matter, as well as in 
 other matters, and for that reason I am oppos- 
 ed to this Convention taking any action of 
 the kind proposed in the report of the com- 
 mittee at the present time — that is, detailing 
 the whole system of common schools, and 
 tying up the hands of the Legislature for all 
 time to come. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. The genUeman from 
 Winona has told us that this is a very im- 
 portant matter, and one in which the people 
 feel a deep interest. I do not doubt that it is 
 a matter which should receive the grave con- 
 sideration of this body. The people will re- 
 quire it at our hands. If we can present to 
 the people a system of public instruction 
 which shall be thorough and at the same time 
 of a popular cast, it stiikes me that it will do 
 more to procure jthe adoption of our Consti- 
 tution, than any other measure we can pro- 
 pose. I hope we shall adopt some system — 
 not a legislative system to be sure, hut one 
 within the province of a Constitution — ^which 
 will be of that popular cast, and shall meet 
 the approbation of the people. It strikes me 
 that the report of the committee can be 
 amended in such a way as to meet the ap- 
 probation of a majority of the members of 
 
 this Convention, and commend itself to their 
 good sense and better judgment. We need a 
 system of education which shall be thorough, 
 and economical, and for that reason I have 
 been opposed to the district system, and in 
 fevor of the graded system and I desire that 
 the way may be left open so that the graded 
 system can be adopted wherever it is practi- 
 cable. Adopt the district system, and you 
 render it impossible, in any general degree, 
 to adopt the graded system with a primary^ 
 i secondary, grammer, and high school depart- 
 I ments. And even if mixed schools are to be 
 the system of the future, I am opposed ta 
 cutting up our townships into smaller por- 
 tions, called districts. Take a township, for 
 instance, and divide it up into nine districts, 
 giving an equal number of schools to each of 
 those districts, and fix the district lines ; and 
 I ask you how long it will be before they will 
 want to change those Unes, in order to equal- 
 ize the schools, as the country settles up ? In 
 my opinion there would not he a township in 
 the State, which would not want to change in 
 less than five years. Can you change those 
 lines readily ? The districts become, in the 
 eyes of the people, a sort of municipal corpo- 
 ration, and they are generally unwilling that 
 any changes should be made. Besides, there 
 is a practical difficulty arising out of the fact 
 that the school houses are erected at the ex- 
 pense of the districts, and a change might 
 subject individuals to the burthen of taxation 
 for school houses, several times in the course 
 of a few years. 
 
 Let the whole matter be in the hands of 
 the town organizations ; let them select a com- 
 petent committee to control the matter, and 
 to see to the selection of teachers, and you 
 have a much more efficient board than would 
 be selected by the different districts, where 
 the principle of rotation in office would natu- 
 rally exist. Let the town committee draw 
 the district lines from year to year, and let 
 the school houses be buUt by the town, and 
 the teachers selected by the committee and be 
 sent to those districts for which they are best 
 adopted. I say, then, that if we adopt the 
 system of mixed schools, there is no neces- 
 sity of a district system. There are evils 
 connected with a district system. If a Con- 
 vention to revise this Constitution were ta 
 meet ten years from thia time, it would be im- 
 
288 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satukdat, August 1. 
 
 possible to abolish that district system, and 
 establish in its place anything like a graded 
 system in the State, because of the feeling of 
 attachment towards the district organizations, 
 which springs up fi-om usage and custom. I 
 hope that neither the substitute nor the re- 
 port itself will be adopted without some al- 
 terations. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I have almost come to the 
 conclusion that the gentleman from Winona 
 \yill change his opinion in regard to the dis- 
 position of this Convention to discuss mat- 
 ters of importance. There seems to be a 
 disposition to discuss even school questions, 
 and perhaps before we get through with it, 
 we shall have as much talk upon it as we had 
 upon the rights of married women, and upon 
 capital punishment. 
 
 I am very indifferent as to the adoption of 
 this report, but there is one thing which has 
 not been referred to either in the report, or in 
 the substitute, and to my mind more impor- 
 tant than the system itself, which we propose 
 to adopt : and that is the matter of guarding 
 these lands, to prevent their being squandered 
 as they have been in some States. They 
 should be protected from those schemes of 
 rascality by which, in the State of Wisconsin, 
 they have lost many hundred thousand dol- 
 lars of their school fund. It seems to me 
 that we should throw a safe-guard around 
 them, and then I am willing to leave the de- 
 tails of a school system to the Legislature. 
 It strikes me, that if each county could be 
 made the guardian of the school fund within 
 its own limits, that there would be a division of 
 responsibility. It would place the care of those 
 lands within the supervision of those directly 
 interested in them, and who would watch and 
 guard them from corrupt schemes, better than 
 could possibly be done by having them all go 
 to form a consolidated fund for the whole 
 State. If we should be as unfortunate in re- 
 gard to State officers, as they have been in 
 Wisconsin, it would be possible for ,them to 
 pursue the same scheme that was pursued 
 there. But if the fund is divided up, so that 
 each county should have the control of its 
 own land, the State officers would not have 
 much control over it. Then if one man, hav- 
 ing the management of a portion of the fuud, 
 should prove dishonest, he could not do so 
 much ini.schief. I think that division of pow- 
 
 er, is a democratic and safe rule to apply gen- 
 erally, and I would adopt and follow it out 
 scrupulously, in regard to school lands of this 
 State. I think if we can adopt some system 
 of the kind by which we should divide the res- 
 ponsibility, and put the trust in the hands of 
 those most immediately interested, the fund 
 .will be guarded more carefully, and more 
 schools be kept, than if the fund were in- 
 trusted here at the Capitol, in the hands of 
 one, two or three men. 
 
 Mr. BALGOMBE. The substitute brings 
 up the question immediately, whether we are 
 going to fix upon a school system in our Con- 
 stitution, or whether we will simply provide 
 for a sale of the public school lands, and leave 
 the system of schools to be established by 
 the Legislature. That question I should like 
 to hear discussed and settled before w^e pro- 
 ceed to frame an article in the Constitution in 
 reference to the matter. If we are not to 
 provide for a particular system, but are 
 simply going to^throw restrictions around the 
 Legislature, as to the manner in which they 
 shall dispose of the school lands, then there 
 need be no discussion Tipon the various sys- 
 tems proposed. If we decide to jBx upon a 
 system, we haye got ourselves into a week's 
 discussion. I propose to discuss that ques- 
 tion myself, if we come to that decision, and 
 I hope gentlemen will make up their minds to 
 discuss it for a week, for it is a matter of very 
 great importance. And I suppose, too, that 
 no two members of the Convention would 
 now agree upon any particular system as a 
 whole. I have not yet heard a single gentle- 
 man express my \'iews, and I presume the 
 same is the case with other gentlemen. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I hope members will take 
 this matter into serious consideration. J 
 agree exactly with my friend from Rice 
 county (Mr. North.) I do not care so much 
 about our system of schools — for that can be 
 regulated by the Legislaturcr— as I do about 
 securing the school fund from waste and pecu- 
 lation. I do want the sale of these lands 
 restricted, so that the Legislature, the State 
 officers, or any others, cannot squander the 
 funds. If we make a mistake in that respect 
 wo cannot rectify it. If the Legislature rnakcs 
 a mistake as to the system of schools, it can 
 be rectified. 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. I hope the substit\ite will 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 1. 
 
 237 
 
 «ot prevail. "We should throw the disposi- 
 tion of these lands as directly into the hands 
 of the people as we possibly can. The 
 people have suffered so much from legislative 
 acts, that they are afraid to trust those lands 
 to them. They expect that this Convention 
 will lay down in detail, a plan for their dispo- 
 sition, so as to secure them against legislative 
 corruption. They expect tlijs body to throw 
 such restrictions around the Legislature, that 
 it will be impos^ble for them to squander the 
 school fund. I hope that this committee will 
 xise and report progress, and this Convention 
 will refer this report back to the standing 
 committee, with instructions to report to the 
 Convention a plan by which the counties shall 
 have the disposal of the school lands within 
 their respective limits, and that the people of 
 each district shall have the privilege of fixing 
 their own time for the sale of those lands. 
 I move that the committee rise and report 
 progress. And then in Convention I will 
 make the other motion. 
 
 Mr. BALGOMBE. I hope we shall first 
 settle the question whether or not we are to 
 prescribe a system of schools in detail. 
 
 Mr. ilcKUNE. I withdraw the motion for 
 the present. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. In regard to the sug- 
 gestion that the counties should be the guardi- 
 ans of the lands within the respective counties, 
 it strikes me that it is entirely impracticable. 
 Some of the very smallest counties in the 
 State, possessing but a very small amount of 
 school lands, may have the largest population, 
 and be entitled to the largest portion of the 
 school fund. You propose to make a system 
 with a thousand heads, as it were, and every 
 body in that matter is to have the control. 
 What is every body's business, seems to be 
 nobody's business. The money should be 
 put into one fund for the benefit of the whole 
 State, to be divided, not according to counties 
 and districts, but according to the number of 
 children to be educated. A'll we need in this 
 matter is is to throw such safeguards around the 
 fund as to prevent it from being squandered. 
 A plan which has frequently occmred to my 
 mind, is this, that the money arising from the 
 sale of school lands should be funded, that 
 .the servants of the State should have charge 
 of that fund, and that the credit of the State 
 should be pledged for its .s^fe keeping. That 
 
 will make the school fund as safe as the State 
 itself. The officers of the State, it is true, 
 may cheat the State, but still the faith of the 
 State is pledged to reimburse that fund, and 
 it is preserved for the benefit of the children 
 of the State. It is the most important fund 
 we have, and why should not the State pledge 
 its faith for its safe keeping. 
 
 As to the report of the committee, although 
 it embraces a very good school system, yet it 
 may not be'the system we want. It is tread- 
 ing on dangerous ground, to go to work now 
 and form an entire system, and if we do not 
 form an entire system, it is more dangerous 
 still to form a part. "We want to provide for 
 a proper sale of these lands; we want to 
 place the fund so that it shall be securely 
 kept, and we want to provide that it shall be 
 sacredly applied to the purposes for which it 
 was designed. If we can provide for those 
 three things in the Constitution, it is all we 
 need do. 
 
 Mr. BATES. The question is one of deep 
 interest and importance to us all, and so far 
 as inaugurating a complete school system in 
 the Constitution is concerned, I do not think 
 it is practicable to do it. If we decide upon 
 a system, the future wants and conditions of 
 the State may require a change, and that 
 could not be done without a revision of the 
 Constitution. 
 
 The gentleman from "Winona (Mr. "Wilson) 
 says he is opposed to the substitute, because 
 he wishes to guard against fraud, and he re- 
 ferred to the Constitution of Wisconsin. I 
 have been looking at the provisions of the 
 Wisconsin Constitution, which are very elab- 
 orate upon this subject, and yet perhaps there 
 is no State in which the school funds have 
 been so squandered. This substitute propo- 
 ses first, that the principal arising from the 
 sale of school lands shall forever remain invi- 
 olate ; and second, that the income shall be 
 faithfully applied to the specific objects of the 
 original grants and appropriations. If in ad- 
 dition to that we can add some provision in 
 regard to the manner of the sale of those 
 lands, I have no objection. Two of the 
 points referred to by the gentleman from Scott 
 ' county, (Mr. Galbraith) are provided for in 
 the substitute, and the third can easily be. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I am myself satisfied 
 that the report of the committee is an able 
 
238 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 1. 
 
 one, but I agree with many gentleman here, 
 that it is not proper for us to go into the details 
 of an arrangement of a school system in the 
 Constitution. I like the suggestions of my 
 friend from Rice county (Mr. North) in 
 regard to the disposal of these school lands — 
 that the counties should have the manage- 
 ment and disposal of the lands within their 
 respective limits. The gentleman from Scott 
 county, (Mr. Galbraitii) objects to it, on the 
 ground that some of the counties, having a 
 small amount of school lands, liave a large 
 population, and to them he thinks that plan 
 would work imfairly. That is the very rea- 
 son why I desire it. It is well known that 
 in sparsely populated counties it costs several 
 times as much to educate a child as it does in 
 St. Paul and other large places. The children 
 of those counties are scattered over a large 
 tract of Territory, and it costs more to sup- 
 port schools for them. They must either 
 have more money expended for their benefit, 
 or have less time in which to receive their 
 education. There seems to me nothing unfair 
 or unjust in letting each county have the ben- 
 efit of the lands within its limits. Each 
 county would be interested in the disposal of 
 its lands. I think a law might be passed to 
 meet the objection the gentleman suggested, 
 of leaving this matter to too many heads. 
 There need be no conflict of authority. I be- 
 lieve such a plan has been adopted in some 
 of the States, and it has given general satis- 
 faction. Such was the case in Illinois, though 
 in some portions of the State the thing was 
 badly managed. 
 
 I am also of opinion that the substitute 
 might be improved, yet I prefer the substitute 
 to the report itself. It has been said that it 
 was desirable that we should have a decision 
 in the first place, of the question whether we 
 would go into the details of a system. In 
 regard to that, I would say that I am deci- 
 dedly opposed to it. It is suggested by some 
 gentleman near mc that in Illinois the lands 
 were given to each Congressional district. 
 But I tliink the principle will work well by 
 giving them to the counties. I am not partic- 
 ular, but I think it is decidedly better than 
 to leave the matter in the manner recommended 
 by the report. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I am in favor of the sub- 
 stitute and opposed to the report. I am op- 
 
 posed to the report because it looks to the 
 establishment of a system of common schools. 
 It points to a particular system to be estab- 
 lished hereafter by the Legislature. There 
 arc at this time in tliis Territory, two systems 
 of common schools — the common school sys- 
 tem, and the graded system ; the former apply- 
 mg to the farming portion of the country, 
 while the latter prevails in some of the towns 
 under the special acts of the Legislature. In 
 St. Paul, St. Anthony, Minneapolis, and 
 other places, they have the graded system, 
 and have built school houses with reference 
 to it. And it will always be found necessary 
 to have two systems. 
 
 In order to provide for placing these lands 
 under the control of the counties, it seems to 
 me, that we have got to go into a little matter of 
 legislation. We shall have to provide the way 
 in which the lands shall be distributed and 
 handed over to the counties, and the mode in 
 which the counties shall dispose of them 
 hereafter. Now I am opposed to going into 
 that kind of legislation, and it seems to me 
 that the substitute is the best thing we caa 
 adopt. It is a copy of the provision, on that 
 subject, from the Constitution of Oliio ; and I 
 have yet to learn that it did not serve a good 
 purpose in that State. In Wisconsin the 
 difficulty grew out of the manner of disposing 
 of the lands, and we cannot very well guard 
 against fraud of that kind, unless we go inta 
 very special legislation. That should be done 
 by the Legislature. It is impossible to shut 
 all these doors against fraud. We can only 
 adopt general provisions and leave minor 
 matters to the Legislature. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I hope the report will 
 be recommitted. There is a diversity of opinion 
 here, and I hope that the committee will re- 
 port something like the substitute. 
 
 I am opposed to a great many of the ideas 
 which have been advanced here, and one of 
 them is in reference to this county arrange- 
 ment. That seems to me impossible. The 
 report contemplates other sources of revenue 
 to the school fund, besides what arises from 
 the sale of the lands. I think there should 
 be a revenue raised in addition to the school 
 fund proper, and where is the gentleman that 
 will say but that all the proi)erty of the State 
 .«;hould ])e taxed and added to that school 
 fund, if necessary? Why? Here is one 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 1. 
 
 239 
 
 county in which there is a large city, and the 
 school fund is small compared ■with the num- 
 ber of children, and that portion of the school 
 fund proper, which would go to the rural dis- 
 tricts of that county, would be too small to 
 support schools. The provision made by 
 Congress is generous and ample, and I am 
 disposed to make its benefits general. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I offer the following as an 
 additional section : 
 
 "The school lands in each county shall be a 
 perpetual fund for the support of common schools 
 in such county, and shall be disposed of in small 
 parcels to the high^t bidder, and the proceeds 
 thereof shall be kept, loaned, or invested within 
 the county in such manner as shall be provided by 
 law." 
 
 There is no reason why such a provision 
 should not be incorporated into the Constitu- 
 tion. If all the school lands are to be loaned 
 and vested in one fund f(5r the whole State, 
 how is it to be disposed of, and how is it to 
 be invested to bring in an income ? Is it to 
 be done in the same manner as in some of the 
 other States ? In New York they have loan 
 committees in each comity, to loan such 
 monies. They are entrusted with the fund 
 to be loaned upon bond and mortgage from 
 year to year, and they have charge of the 
 proceeds. If that is the plan to be adopted 
 here — and I do not know of a safer one, if 
 there is to be but one fund — it will be scat- 
 tered abroad in many hands, and if one prove 
 a defaulter, the injury resulting will be less. 
 If that is to be the plan, why would it not be 
 better to let each county, on the start, have 
 its own fund, and avoid the necessity of going 
 through all the machinery of having the funds 
 first sent to the Capital, and thence distribu- 
 ted again all over the State ? It is like collec- 
 ting a missionary fund here to be sent to 
 New York, and they sending back some 
 laborer here upon the very ground where the 
 fund was raised. Is there not more danger 
 of its being lost by that course, than there 
 would be in keeping it in the counties where 
 the lands are originally, and where the funds 
 are to be invested and loaned ? It seems to 
 me that that is the most sensible, direct, and 
 practicable mode of proceeding. 
 
 There is another reason why I would put 
 in a provision that the lands should be sold 
 in small parcels, and to the highest bidder. 
 It is that the man of moderate means may 
 
 give the full value of the lands. If by the 
 management of public officers, they were 
 permitted to be offered in large quantities, 
 men of small means would not be able to 
 buy, and men of large means would get them 
 at much below their actual value. By selling 
 them in small parcels, they will produce the 
 largest possible fund. 
 
 Another reason is, that throughout this 
 Territory there is a prevailing disposition to 
 make claims upon these school lands, in hopes 
 that by some management the occupants of 
 such lands will be privileged above others, 
 and thereby be able to get their lands at one 
 tenth their value. I would put a check upon 
 that thing, and stop it now, for if it is allowed 
 to proceed, the school fund of this Territory, 
 as a whole, will not be one-tenth of what it 
 should be. I would make the provision now, 
 that the public may understand the arrange- 
 ment, and avoid putting themselves to great 
 inconvenience in the hope of making a large 
 haul out of the school lands. 
 
 Mr. GERRISH. I am opposed to that 
 additional section, because there are large 
 counties in the pine country, which would 
 have a large school fund, and no need for it. 
 Such a distribution would be extremely une- 
 qual. I think it would be better to divide it 
 throughout the Territory, and then all the 
 inhabitants would receive the benefits of it in 
 proportion to numbers. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would suggest that if 
 there are no inhabitants, tliose counties would 
 need no schools. 
 
 Mr. GERRISH, But where would the 
 money go to? 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I thought this Convention 
 had come to the conclusion that they would 
 put no questionable provision into the Consti- 
 tution. I do not know but the proposition of 
 the gentleman Irom Rice county is a proper 
 one, but it is one upon which I feel entirely 
 incompetent to form an opinion. It is, at any 
 rate, a questionable proposition, and if it be 
 inserted in the Constitution, whether it be 
 right or wrong, it will inaugurate a new policy, 
 which, from the nature of the case, wiU be 
 severely censured and questioned. For that 
 reason, I hope, if the repoyt is recommitted to 
 the committe for re-consideration, it will go 
 without the endorsement of this Convention. 
 The proposition is one which, were I sitting 
 
240 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satueday, AutiusT 1. 
 
 as a legislator, I would consider favorably, but 
 I dislike to be compelled to make up my mind 
 upon the question, as a member of a Consti- 
 tutional Convention. The idea of putting 
 such a provision into the Constitution, seems 
 to me erroneous, whether, in itself, right or 
 wrong. 
 
 Mr. KEMP. If I understand the proposi- 
 tion of the gentleman from Rice, it is that 
 each county shall take its own school land and 
 fund, and hold it upon its own account, with- 
 out its being at all connected with the general 
 fund of the Territory. I think that would be 
 unjust, and as an example, I refer to my own 
 county — Wabashaw. That county is mostly 
 situated upon the Half-Brced tract, and they 
 have no school lands at aU. There was no 
 reserve of lands for school purposes in that 
 tract. Of course she would suffer from the 
 proposed course, and we should have no 
 school fund at all. To obviate that difficulty, 
 and prevent that injusticej the fund should be 
 a general one, and distributed according to 
 population. There are other counties which 
 would suffer in a similar manner. Some 
 counties thickly settled, have a small school 
 fund, while others have a sparse population 
 and a large school fund. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I am rather of opinion 
 that by this time my friend from Winona 
 (Mr. Balcombe) will conclude ho was not 
 exactly a prophet, when he said the Conven- 
 tion were not wiUing to debate this question, 
 and that no interest was felt here upon the 
 subject, for I see there is quite an interest, 
 and no end to debate; 
 
 For myself, I am in favor of the substitute 
 rather than the report, and although I believe 
 that report is a good one, yet I suppose the 
 committee will not consider it discourteous if 
 we prefer something else. The substitute has 
 been referred to as being very concise, and as 
 avoiding legislation, and that is one of the 
 reasons why I prefer it. I think the first 
 section of the substitute does about as much 
 to guard against fraud in the sale of the 
 school lands, as can be done by us. 
 
 Much has been said in regard to diflercnt 
 school systems. I am ready to say, as an 
 individual, that I prefer the district system. 
 My friend upon my right (Mr. Peckiiam) has 
 spoken in favor of graded schools. I am 
 aware that in certain localities thoy may be 
 
 the best, but I assure that gentleman that 
 from my experience in this matter, I know 
 they will not work v.'cll in the rural portions 
 of the country; Small scholars cannot at- 
 tend such schools without great mconveni- 
 ence. Hence it is important that the matter 
 should be so leftj that the rural districts majr 
 have district schools. The system of dis= 
 trict schools was practically established in the 
 State from which I came, and I am of opin- 
 ion that the New England States had as good 
 a system as any. I am sure that as many 
 teachers have been sdnt forth from the New 
 England States, as from Sny portion of the 
 union. I am hence opposed to going on here, 
 and incorporating any system at length, into 
 the Constitution. 
 
 My friend from "Winona (Mr. Wilson) has 
 remarked that there was danger of corruption 
 in future legislation. I think that a short 
 time since, he stated in an argument, that this 
 body appeared to believe that we were the 
 only honest and honorable body that would' 
 ever assemble in the Capitol. But to-day^ 
 his argument has appeared very differently. 
 I think this substitute is all that is needed in 
 the Constitution, and for one, I am willing to 
 leave the rest to the Legislature. 
 
 As to the section proposed by the gentle- 
 man from Rice County, I am in favor of it,- 
 and I do not know but I would be willing to 
 go a little further. I am in favor of it for this 
 reason : in my native State, the fund was left, 
 not to the counties, but to the towns, and if 
 I understand the subject, that course might 
 be adopted here. It worked well there. But 
 whether we go as far as that or not, I am sat- 
 isfied that it is better to give the counties the 
 control of the fund, rather than the State. 
 But some object that large and populous places 
 would not get their share. It is usually the 
 case that such places have their peculiar fa- 
 cilities and advantages, over the rural districts, 
 in educating their children which the rural 
 districts have not. Hence I think the thing 
 is about equal. 
 
 Again the gentleman across the way (Mr, 
 Kemp) told us that his county was situated 
 upon the half-breed tract, and consequently 
 that there were no school lands there. 1 
 think that if they arc within the proposed 
 boundaries of the State, there are school 
 lands there. The Enabling Act was as follows : 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 1. 
 
 241 
 
 " Sections numbered sixteen and thirty-six in 
 every township of public land in said State, and 
 when either of said sections or any part thereof 
 has been sold, or otherwise been disposed of, other 
 lands equivalent and contiguous as may be, shall 
 be granted to said State for the use of schools." 
 
 I am of opinion that under that section, 
 two sections of every township in that county 
 must be school lands. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. I was misunderstood by 
 the gentleman who has just taken his seat. 
 In the remarks I made in regard to the dis- 
 trict and the graded system of schools. I did 
 not wish to be understood as being in favor 
 of adopting the graded system throughout the 
 entire state, but .that the district system was 
 not necessary in order to the adoption ^of 
 mixed schools; that where mixed schools 
 were adopted, we might just as well abolish 
 the district system as to retain it, and that 
 we cannot maintain the graded system where 
 the district system exists. I wished the dis- 
 trict system rejected in order that the people 
 might, if they desired it, and if their popu- 
 lation and niunber of children would admit 
 of it, establish the graded system. I did not 
 advocate the universal adoption of the graded 
 system, though I think the graded system 
 might be adopted to a greater extent, than 
 gentlemen seem to suppose. In every town- 
 ship there might be established a central high 
 school, and several primary and grammer 
 schools, scattered around as the wants of the 
 people demanded. But if the population is 
 so sparse that such a system cannot be adop- 
 ted, the people are authorized to maintain a 
 system of mixed schools, although the district 
 system be not in existence. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I am opposed to this county 
 system, for the reasons given by two of my 
 colleagues. One stated that in Wabashaw 
 County, there were no school lands. That is 
 true, also, in respect to a great portion of 
 Winona County, and that is a reason why it 
 will not answer for that county. My friend 
 from Winona (Mr. Gebbish) asks what we 
 would do in reference to the pine re^ons. 
 There are school sections there much more 
 valuable than those in the populated coimties, 
 and yet no necessity for schools. They have 
 a school fund much greater than that of 
 counties where they need a large fund. 
 
 Again take Winona County. She may 
 31 
 
 have a school section upon a bluff, which is 
 not worth ten cents an acre. The same may 
 be true of other counties lying along the river. 
 Those counties have a much larger population 
 than any six counties lying back of them, 
 where the school sections are more valuable. 
 Now to adopt the county system would not 
 be feir. The school fund should, be distribu- 
 ted in proportion to the children who receive 
 the benefits of the fund. I am therefore en- 
 tirely opposed to the county system. I am 
 in fayor of the other proposition of the gen- 
 tleman from Rice County, that the lands 
 should be disposed of in small quantities. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I am in favor of all proper 
 safeguards being placed in the Constitution 
 in order that the proceeds of these lands shall 
 be forever inviolable, but I am not in favor of 
 burdening our people with the details of a 
 school system which is contained in tliis bill, 
 because we are a progressive people, and any 
 system which may be adopted now, will not 
 be applicable to our circumstances five years 
 hence. I am not in lavor of any system 
 which ties up the hands of the Legislature. 
 
 In reply to some remarks made by gentle- 
 men in regard to the valueless portion of the 
 Territory, I will say that they labor under 
 a wrong impression ; and I say now, for the 
 benefit of the Convention, that there is not 
 any portion of that Territory which will ever 
 be organized imder a county government but 
 what will sustain a dense population, and they 
 can manage their own school lands. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I did not say it was val- 
 ueless. I did say, that in some of those 
 counties, when populated, the school lauds 
 would be much more valuable, because they 
 are good lands, and hence the system would 
 operate unequally. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. The question now be- 
 fore us is the amendment to the amendment, 
 and in that amendment two questions are 
 involved ; one is whether the lands shall be 
 under the control of each county by itself, or 
 whether they shall be under the control of 
 the State as a whole. That question has been 
 somewhat discussed, and I hope every mem- 
 ber will express his opinion upon the matter, 
 because I wish to have the opinion of the 
 people upon that point, and then be governed 
 by it. The second question is whether the 
 lands, when sold shall be appraised, or 
 
242 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 1. 
 
 whether when sold, they shall be sold to the 
 highest bidder. That question has not been 
 spoken of by any gentleman. I would like 
 to hear the opinion of every gentleman, be- 
 cause I wish to get at the wishes of the peo- 
 ple upon that point, and then be governed 
 by it. My idea is that the lands should be 
 appraised, and then put up at public auction, 
 and sold to the highest bidder. If the lands 
 are put under the control of each county, 
 and are put up at pubhc sale, there are two 
 or three things to be considered. In the first 
 place speculators would not desire to buy 
 lands out from under the settlers, by bidding 
 higher than the settlers, and the settler buys 
 at the minimum price of $1,25 per acre — 
 that is settlers who were actually on the 
 school sections. Though the speculators may 
 desire to bid even fifteen or twenty dollars an 
 acre, he does not desire to bid it out from un- 
 der the actual settler. A neighbor for instance 
 who might want the land actually for farming 
 purposes, would not bid against his neighbor, 
 the actual settler upon it. Suppose my friend 
 fi-om Scott county (Mr. Galbeaith) was an 
 actual settler upon a school section, I would 
 not, however much I wanted the land, take it 
 away from him because I was able to pay a 
 higher price than he. Now this is a matter 
 which we should take mto consideration. 
 
 I approve of putting some restriction upon 
 the Legislature, and the question is, what re- 
 striction shall we impose as to the disposal of 
 the school lands. 
 
 It seems conceded that we shall not incor- 
 porate here a general school system, and the 
 question then is, what kind of restrictions 
 shall we place upon the Legislature. That is 
 an important question, and I want to know 
 what are the wishes of the people upon that 
 point. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. The question is upon 
 the proposition of the gentleman from Rice 
 county, to give the school lands to the several 
 county corporations for the use of schools. I 
 am opposed to it, and not, I think, without 
 some reasons. To illustrate the real cifect 
 which this amendment would have, let us 
 suppose that we make smaller subdivisions, 
 and give the lands to the towns. In one town 
 say the school section is worth $100 per acre. 
 That would be a great fund for that town. In 
 another town adjoining, it may so happen 
 
 that the school section is worth but the gov- 
 ernment price — $1.25 per acre. Now those 
 towns may be just as populous, and every 
 one admits that education is not a local, but a 
 general benefit. It is for the benefit of our 
 county that the children of another county 
 should be educated. Now I submit if that 
 would be just? One county might have a 
 revenue of $50,000, while another would have 
 only a small revenue of $2,000. I ask if 
 that is just and equitable, and if it is carrying 
 out the objects which the people of such a 
 State as ours, ought to have at heart ? I say 
 there is no more need of instruction in large 
 cities than there is in the rural districts. And 
 you will generally find the children of the 
 rural districts better educated than those of 
 towns and cities. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I am disposed to treat this 
 subject with a great deal of caution. I con- 
 sider the proposition of the gentleman fi'om 
 Rice county correct in part, and in part not. 
 The proposition which he proposes to insert 
 into the Constitution, that the lands shall be 
 sold in small parcels, is a good one, for the 
 reason that if so sold, they will bring the 
 highest price, and put more money in the 
 school fund, than if sold in larger parcels. 
 There are school lands which are valuable, 
 and I believe that if they are sold in twenty 
 acre lots they wjll bring a larger revenue to 
 the school fund than if sold in any other way. 
 If we adopt the minimum price, it will ope- 
 rate unfavorably. I take it to be the true 
 principle that the settler has no business to 
 occupy these school lands to the injury of the 
 children of the State, and if he goes on to 
 them, he does so at his peril, and if he makes 
 improvements, he should understand that his 
 land must come into competition by the bids 
 of others. 
 
 One objection I have to the proposition is, 
 that it will not distribute the benefits of a 
 school fund equally. I think the only just 
 ground is to give the State the benefits of the 
 school fund equally. As far as my county of 
 Rice is concerned, we should get a large school 
 fund, because our school lands arc valuable, 
 but I am not disposed to hoard them up for 
 our exclusive benefit, and I believe our peo- 
 ple will be with me in that respect. 
 
 Unless we intend to go into the details of a 
 system from beginning to end, from the State 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satukdat, Augpst 1. 
 
 248 
 
 superintendent down to the town superin- 
 tendent, we cannot do anything more than to 
 adopt the substitute proper. I hope the last 
 amendment will not prevail. There seems to 
 be a difficulty in getting at it. It will bring 
 us into that difficulty we are all talking about 
 — special legislation. 
 
 Where there is a diversity of opinion, the 
 gentleman fi-om Winona will find that we are 
 as ready to talk upon a matter of importance, 
 as we are upon such questions as women's 
 rights, and I hope we shall have no more 
 reference to that matter, because what may 
 seem of importance to one, may not seem of 
 importance to another. I hope we shall have 
 no more remarks reproaching any one for 
 what they may say here. I have a good 
 opinion of my fellow beings, and I am inclined 
 to believe them honest in their sentiments, 
 imtil they prove themselves dishonest. I do 
 not want to charge them with anything like 
 double dealing, or anything of that kind. 
 
 I say again, I hope the proposition will not 
 prevail. It strikes me that it is not proper, 
 unless we intend to adopt a general and 
 minute system. 
 
 Mr. COLBURX. It appears to me that 
 the amendment of the gentleman fi-om Rice 
 county ought to be divided. I want to vote 
 for that part of it which provides that the 
 school lands shall be sold at public sale, and 
 against that part which provides for placing 
 them imder the control of the coimties in 
 which they are situated. On the other hand 
 there are those who wish the lands to be 
 placed under the control of the counties, but 
 are opposed to the first provision. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I offer the foUowing as a 
 substitute for the amendment of the gentle- 
 man from Rice county : 
 
 " Xo school lands shall be sold until they shall 
 have been appraised by three appraisers, who 
 shall be appointed by the board of supervisors of 
 the several counties in which such lands are situa- 
 ted, and not for less than the appraised value." 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I have listened with 
 considerable interest to the difierent speakers 
 who have spoken upon these various amend- 
 ments. There have been some very good 
 suggestions thrown out by several gentlemen 
 — suggestions which, in my opinion, would be 
 very proper, provided we were a Legislature, 
 and were sitting here to pass a code of laws 
 
 in regard to schools. Now I am one of those 
 who always want to know just where we 
 stand in the first place, and after having found 
 out the position we occupy, to take such a 
 direction as our judgments may dictate. I 
 tmderstand, in the first place, that Congress 
 has granted us a certain amount of lands for 
 school purposes, and that the grant is sub- 
 stantially like the railroad grants. It has not, 
 however, granted those lands to the diflFerent 
 counties, nor to the diflFerent townships, but to 
 the proposed State whenever we come into 
 the Union as one of the States. 
 
 Now I have no objection to the amendment 
 proposed by the gentleman fix)m Rice county, 
 which provides for the disposal of these lands 
 to the several counties. If we are sitting 
 here as a Convention for the purpose of dis- 
 posing of those lands in the same way that 
 the Legislature disposes of the railroad grants, 
 I want to imderstand what is the best and the 
 proper disposition of them. It so happens 
 that I was bom in New Hampshire, and 
 raised under the New England common school 
 system, and I know something about that 
 system. Some of their arrangements I liked 
 and some I disliked. I was transported to 
 Illinois, and I learned something about the 
 system which prevailed there. In that State 
 every sixteenth section was given for school 
 purposes, and the Legislature gave those six- 
 teenth sections, not to the counties, but to 
 each congressional district Now in coming 
 from Illinois up into Minnesota, it seems to 
 me that it is my duty to discriminate between 
 the circmnstances of Illinois and Minnesota. 
 I ought not to lug aroxmd aU my New Eng- 
 land notions through Illinois, and perhaps 
 amend them in Illinois, and then lug them up 
 the Mississippi into Minnesota, and say they 
 are right, and should be carried into operation 
 here. I see here a different coimtry fi-om the 
 Northern part of Illinois. I see the pine 
 and the lumber country up here, which can 
 never be thickly settled. Northern Illinois is 
 settled by a farming community, and a system 
 that would not operate well there, would 
 operate well here. We should look to the 
 circmnstances which surround us, and be 
 guided, to a certain extent, by those circum- 
 stances, and as tar as my judgment is con- 
 cerned, it seems to me that this county or 
 township system, which works well in Illinois, 
 
244 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satcbday, August 1. 
 
 where nearly all the lands are farming lands, 
 would not work well here. It seems to me, 
 also, that inasmuch as this grant has been 
 made to the State, it ought to be kept as a 
 State school fund, to be applied by the Legis- 
 lature in such manner as the wisdom of the 
 Legislature may direct. Now I do not 
 believe that we are going to have, hereafter, 
 such great swindlers to represent us. I do 
 not believe but that the Legislatiire will have 
 just as much knowledge in reference to the 
 school lands as we have ; nor do I believe but 
 what we shall have as smart, talented, and as 
 wise men in the Legislature as we have here. 
 So far as I am concerned, I am perfectly 
 willing to run the risk. Now perhaps you 
 and I may be so fortunate as to come into 
 one of those Legislatures, and if we do, then, 
 you know, everything is perfectly safe. 
 (Laughter.) 
 
 Now the question has been asked, and 
 properly asked, by my friend from Winona, 
 (Mr. Balcombe) are we to go on and devise 
 and perfect a school system. I, for one, 
 would like to have that question answered. 
 (Cries of " No ! " " No ! ") That is my idea 
 exactly. And then if we are not going on to 
 engraft a regular school system into the 
 Constitution, the next question is, where 
 is the propriety of engrafting certain re- 
 strictions in regard to the sale of schooj 
 lands ? In my judgment, when you come to 
 the details of that system of restriction, in 
 regard to the sale of the school lands, it will 
 amount to about the same thing as a system 
 of common school legislation. The ideas 
 already advanced arc, that the lands shall be 
 appraised at their actual value by certain indi- 
 viduals; that they shall be sold in small 
 quantities, and not for less than the appraised 
 value. Now if you are going that far, I pro- 
 pose that you shall protect the people of our 
 .section of the country who have settled upon 
 the school lands as honest and good citizens, 
 though, perhaps, under a mistaken idea of 
 their rights. But they are there, and a part 
 and parcel of our best citizens. They are 
 there helping us build our school houses, to 
 pay our taxes, and to build up the country, 
 and if you are going into restrictions, I have 
 something to say in regard to that class of 
 individuals. 
 My opinion is, that wo should leave it where 
 
 the Enabling Act has left it ; and for that rea- 
 son I am opposed to the report of the commit- 
 tee ; and furthermore, I am opposed to every 
 amendment which has been oflfered, and shall 
 be opposed to every amendment which may 
 be offered. Now that is going a great ways. 
 But the Enabling Act, by its fifth section, has 
 given the land to the State, and we have ac- 
 cepted of the provisions of that act. Now, 
 how does that make the matter stand ? Do 
 not the lands belong to the State? Yes. 
 For what purpose? For the support and 
 benefit of Schools. Can you appropriate the 
 proceeds of these lands to any other purpose 
 than the support of Schools ? Certainly not. 
 It is perfectly safe then, and the whole matter 
 rests with the Legislature ; and it is for their 
 wisdom to devise a system of Schools; to 
 say how the fund shall be applied, and in 
 what way and manner. It is perfectly safe 
 as a School fund — made so by the Enabling 
 Act, and by that clause of the Constitution 
 which we have substantially adopted, which 
 does accept the provisions of that fith section. 
 Then, if the fund is safe, what necessity is 
 there for going on to make restrictions in re- 
 gard to the sale of the lands ? Let the Leg- 
 islature dispose of that, as well as of all other 
 matters connected with this subject. My 
 opinion is, that the members of the Legisla- 
 ture will come here with just as much regard 
 for the good of the country as we have. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Before the question is taken 
 on the substitute for my amendment, I wish 
 to say that I think there is a little misappre- 
 hension in regard to the working of the sys- 
 tem I propose. I should not feel disposed to 
 urge that very strongly, if I did not know 
 that there were strong feelings in favor of such 
 an arrangement among some of the most en- 
 lightened people in this Tei'ritory. Some who 
 have had the misfortune to live under the 
 Wisconsin system, have seen the danger aris- 
 ing from a consolidated fund. We wish, 
 above all tilings, to have our School fund 
 guarded ; and the people would rather prefer 
 a smaller sum than they otherwise would 
 have, and have it secured and under their own 
 control, than to have a larger sum, and feel 
 that it was not secure. 
 
 A word in regard to the working of this 
 system in counties where there are no settle- 
 ments. Let the lands remain unsold until 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satubdat, Arousr 1. 
 
 245 
 
 there are settlements. If there are no schol- 
 ars to have the benefits of them, let them lie 
 until they are more valuable and there are 
 settlements which need them. 
 
 A^in, it is said that the lands will be of 
 small value in some counties, and in others 
 it will be the contrary. I beheve these lands 
 are generally valuable in proportion to the 
 population of the counties ; and as population 
 increases the lands become more valuable. 
 That is the reason why the lands are very 
 valuable in some localities and very cheap in 
 others ; and the value seems to be graded al- 
 most in exact ratio with the increase of popu- 
 lation. True, I know that lands have value 
 according to quality. If they lay upon bluffs, 
 they are almost valueless ; but the inequahty 
 which that would work is not greater than 
 under any other system. Suppose all those 
 lands are sold and the proceeds put into a 
 consolidated fund. It seems to me that val- 
 uable lands will be sold in some localities be- 
 fore they wiU bring their true value, for want 
 of improvements around them. They might 
 not bring a tenth or twentieth part of what 
 they would if they were allowed to remain 
 until the country became settled around 
 them. If the matter is left to the counties, 
 they would take their own time to dispose of 
 them, and wOl make the most out of them. 
 I believe it is the feeling among the people, 
 that they would rather have a small sum and 
 have it secure and under their own control, 
 with as little machinery about it as possible, 
 and as Uttle sending to and fro from the Cap- 
 ital to their respective localities, than to have 
 a large fund at the Capital in which they had 
 a share, but over which they had no control. 
 The additional security gained by having the 
 coimties have the entire control, is a reason 
 which ought to outweigh a great many rea- 
 sons against it. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. The amendment of 
 the gentleman firom Rice county, is to me, at 
 least, a matter of doubtful propriety. From 
 the great diversity of views expressed here, I 
 am satisfied that oiu" minds are not settled 
 upon the matter. Objections have been m-ged 
 here,- which, I think, are very strong. The 
 objection, also, is made here, that some coun- 
 ties, which may have more population than 
 richer counties, have a smaller School fund, 
 
 o-^- use tbwr lands are not valuable. I am 
 
 smprised that gentlemen should lu-ge such an 
 objection, contradicting the old adage, "Poor 
 " men for children." Now it is^a matter of 
 fact that in the old States, some of the poor- 
 est and worst counties are filled up with pop- 
 ulation, and why ? Because poor men go 
 there, while the capitalists go into the richer 
 counties. And here at the West, rich lands 
 are made the subjects of investment by the 
 rich capitalists. Poor men after the first set- 
 tiement of a country — after the lands pass 
 through first hands — cannot settie in the rich 
 and wealthy covmties, and their lands are not 
 the homes of poor men. The man who wants 
 a home merely, goes where his labor or his 
 funds wiU pay for it the easiest, and that is in 
 the poorest counties. It is a matter of histo- 
 ry, which cannot be denied, that poor men 
 have more children than rich men have. It 
 is the history of the world. Take Ireland as 
 an instance. Those who live in hovels wiU 
 every one of them have their dozen, and those 
 are the ones who need education. They are 
 the poor men who need facilities for educa- 
 tion, because it is a fact, that men, when they 
 become rich, do not send their children to the 
 common schools, and, as a general thing, you 
 will find none of the rich men, except such as 
 have Uberal minds, in favor of common schools, 
 because they say they can do better. 
 
 The land which has been given by Congress 
 for the benefit of the schools of the future 
 State of Minnesota, is an inheritance for every 
 child in the Territory, and the nearer equal 
 we make the distribution of that fund to 
 every child, the nearer we come to fulfilling 
 the conditions on which we received the grant. 
 Let us be cautious in distributing this fund 
 around among the coimties. What security 
 do they give ? Into whose hands in the county 
 shall those funds be entrusted? You say 
 the Legislature will provide for that. Then 
 the Legislature must provide for this county 
 and that county to the number of sixty all over 
 the Territory, according to their various cir- 
 cimistances. Do you place it within the hatids 
 of county Commissioners ? Are they boimd 
 to give security ? Will not that make a com- 
 plicated system composed of five hundred 
 different heads ? Is that a good plan ? Is that 
 the way monied men do ? Capitalists gene- 
 rally wish to have their funds invested in good, 
 sound, paying stocks, and to have them as 
 
.46 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 1. 
 
 near together as possible, on the principle 
 that an army scattered here and there cannot 
 fight a good battle. Will it be easier to se- 
 cure those funds, when scattered through 
 every county in the State, than it would be 
 were they all in one place ? We have a large 
 number of county organizations, and each 
 one of them must give some kind of security, 
 and the State has got to attend to that matter. 
 We have no provision here saying what kind 
 of security shall be taken, and I do not know 
 as we could put such a provision into the Con- 
 stitution. 
 
 I cannot say that I have made up my mind 
 upon this subject, but I can say that it is not 
 clear to my mind that the proposed plan is 
 the best. We are dealing with the grant of 
 school lands, and it is a new thing to us. In 
 many States the leeches of the State have 
 robbed the children of their inheritance. To 
 provide against the recurrence of such an 
 event, is now the duty of this Counstitutional 
 Convention, and if we can throw a safe guard 
 around that fund we will do an act for which 
 posterity will cast blessings upon our heads. 
 Is it not, then, well worthy the serious con- 
 sideration of every man here ? As there is 
 such a variety of opinions, to adopt any one 
 of these provisions as a finality, is a little 
 dangerous. It wiU bear further inquiry and 
 I am in favor of re-committing this whole pro- 
 position to the committee fi"om which it came, 
 to report, now that they have had the views 
 of this body, just how the lands shall be dis- 
 posed of, whether in small or large quantities, 
 and how the fund shall be secured and how 
 it shall be distributed. We should throw 
 around the Legislature a constitutional guard 
 beyond which they cannot go. If this Con- 
 vention can accomplish that object, they will 
 do a good thing, and whether the Constitu- 
 tion is adopted or not, it will, at least, show 
 their good intentions. I do not intend to of- 
 fer an amendment now, as I am not prepared 
 for it, but I wish to suggest the idea that the 
 Legislature shall have the po^^er to appoint or 
 name the Commissioners of the school fund, 
 who shall have power to sell or otherwise dis- 
 pose of the school lands and invest the money 
 arising therefrom in the same manner that 
 the* law prescribes that money belonging to 
 orphan children shall be invested — that is in 
 United States stocks, and solvent State stocks, 
 
 or in bonds and mortgages upon undoubted 
 real estate security. In addition to that, I 
 would provide that after the Commissioners 
 had agreed upon the securities, they should 
 not be finally taken and made valid and bind- 
 ing without the approval of either the Secre- 
 tary of State, Superintendent of common 
 schools, the Governor, or some other proper 
 officer. I also would have the faith of the 
 State pledged for all depreciation in the school 
 fund, from fraud or mismanagement — that 
 the State shall be collateral security, if you 
 please, for that fund, in order that this inher- 
 itance given to us by Congress, shall forever 
 remain inviolate to every child bom in the 
 Territory as long as the world stands. This 
 fund should be secured inviolable, though 
 every other fund should sink into the ocean. 
 
 Be it understood that I do not urge this in 
 any other way than as a suggestion. If the 
 fund is not well guarded every leech in the 
 Territory will be after it. I know it to be a 
 fact thatinen are colonizing the school lands 
 now. They are sending out pre-emptors 
 upon the school lands, and are cutting off the 
 timber upon them. Their object is to come 
 into the Legislature hereafter, and demand 
 that they shall give them those lands at a 
 certain price, upon the ground that they are 
 settlers upon them. And it is not the settler 
 either who does this. It is the speculator. 
 He knows that these school lands are valuable. 
 In the county in which I live the school sec- 
 tions are very valuable. It seems as though 
 Providence had given us the best sections in 
 the county, and every day we get the news 
 that some stranger has gone upon the school 
 lands, and is erecting a cabin. And what 
 for ? You can trace Ms steps from some spec- 
 ulating office in this Territory directly to that 
 school land. The Constitution should hedge 
 these lands about, as one of the most impor- 
 tant interests to be taken care of. How to 
 do that is what I want to get at, and I have 
 not arrived at a satisfactory conclusion in my 
 own mind. If wo can, let us accomplish it 
 by all means, and never permit the Legisla- 
 ture to allow those men who have gone on the 
 school lands after the surveys, one iota of 
 profit from such acts. Men who will volun- 
 tarily step upon the inheritance of the State 
 and rob the children of the State of their in- 
 heritance, deserve no commiseration, and 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satttrdat, Atjgust 1. 
 
 247 
 
 should have no benefit from their wrong 
 deeds. 
 
 Mr. MESSER. There is one reason why I ' 
 should be in favor of the amendment, and 
 that is, because 1 believe that where the 
 avails of the land are to be used, there is the 
 place where the people feel the deepest inte- 
 rest to guard them. I beheve, too, that the 
 counties should have the control of them, 
 because they will then have a direct and deep 
 interest in protecting them, and disposing of 
 them to the best advantage. I like, also, the 
 suggestion made by the gentleman from Rice 
 county, in his amendment, that these lands 
 should be sold in small parcels. I could wish 
 that those lands might lie for years, for I 
 believe that the lands themselves are the best 
 possible security we can have. They ought 
 not to be sold, only as they are needed to 
 carry forward the schools in the counties in 
 which the land lies. I know that the lands 
 are now looked upon as very valuable in many 
 sections, and school sections touching upon 
 towns and cities are considered immensely 
 valuable ; and there are many who are looking 
 forward to the time when they can purchase 
 those lands, and are willing to pay a good 
 price for them. But the people in my section 
 of the Territory prefer that the lands should 
 remain vmsold for the present, for they prefer 
 the land, to having its value placed in any 
 other shape. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. As I understand it, 
 the question is upon the substitute of the 
 gentleman from Olmsted county, (Mr. Habd- 
 ufc) which provides for the sale of the lands 
 after appraisal, instead of selling at public 
 auction. I believe I am in favor of that 
 principle. I believe the fund would be larger 
 derived from a sale in that way, than it would 
 be, if the lands were sold at public auction to 
 the highest bidder. I believe that if they 
 were sold at public auction, that they would 
 very seldom bring more than the minimum 
 price. Those school sections will be covered 
 by actual settlers, and as to the question 
 whether or not they will fall into the hands of 
 speculators, that has nothing to do with the 
 discussion of the question under considera- 
 tion, though I do not believe that any man 
 supposes that the actual settlers now upon 
 the school sections intend to ^ve them into 
 the hands of speculators. They design to 
 
 impression that they are intending to occupy 
 them as homesteads will prevent all others 
 from bidding upon those lands. Hence I am 
 satisfied that we shall get for them, upon 
 public sale, no more than the minimmn price. 
 Therefore I hope the Convention will decide 
 upon a system by which the lands must be 
 sold under appraisal. As to who shall ap- 
 praise them, I may differ with gentlemen. I 
 am of opinion that some responsible persons 
 should be appointed by the State to appraise 
 them — men who will not be directly interested, 
 as men would be if appointed in each county. 
 My idea is that the appraisers should be indi- 
 viduals as fer out of motives of interest as 
 possible. The supervisors of the county 
 would be more or less interested in them. 
 The commissioners who might be appointed 
 by the supervisors, would be directly within 
 the reach of those individuals in the covmties 
 who are living on the school sections, and 
 might be more likely to give a low appraisal 
 than individuals who were appointed imder 
 State authority. 
 
 The question was then taken on the substi- 
 tute offered by Mr. Habdixg, and it was not 
 agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I move that the com- 
 mittee now rise, in order that this report may 
 be re-submitted to the committee from whence 
 it came. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The committee accordingly rose and re- 
 ported back the report to the House. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I now move that the report 
 be re-submitted to the committee without 
 instructions. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I hope the motion of the 
 gentleman from Hennepin (Mr. Bates) will 
 not prevail. We might just as well dispose 
 of this matter now, as at any other time. At 
 least, let us try, and if gentlemen are in favor 
 of the substitute offered by the gentleman 
 from Mower coimty, (Mr. Lyle) let us adopt 
 it. If we are in favor of the report of the 
 committee as it now stands, let us adopt that. 
 If we see fit, after trying that, to re-commit 
 the report to the same committee, then it can 
 be done. We have had no votes yet which 
 amount to anything, as to obtaining the sense 
 of this Convention. It seems to me useless 
 to attempt to re-commit it until we have first 
 ascertained the sense of the Convention. 
 
248 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 1. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITII. That is a test ques- 
 tion as to whether we are prepared to vote 
 upon it now. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I made the motion — not 
 because I am prepared to vote, but simply- 
 cut of courtesy to the committee. But if it 
 is the wish of the Convention, I will withdraw 
 my motion. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I believe the Convention 
 ought, at least, to finish one report each day. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I move to re-commit the 
 report to the committee. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move that the 
 Convention adjourn until half past two 
 o'clock. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The motion to adjourn 
 to a specified time will not take precedence of 
 the motion of the gentleman from Winona, 
 (Mr. Wilson.) 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Then I withdraw it. 
 
 The Convention refused to re-commit. 
 
 Mr. HARDING moved (at twelve o'clock 
 and five minutes) that the Convention adjourn 
 until half past two o'clock. 
 
 The Convention refused to adjourn. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I move that the substi- 
 tute for the report be adopted. 
 
 The PRE SIDENT. There is no substitute 
 before the Convention. 
 
 Mr. LYLE. I move a substitute for the 
 report, the same that I offered when in 
 committee. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I move to amend that sub- 
 stitute by adding the additional section which 
 I offered in committee. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I wish to say a few words 
 upon this question. I think the gentleman 
 from Rice county cannot have thought of the 
 effect which his amendment will have upon 
 some of the counties of this State. There 
 are certain coimties which will be left without 
 any sohool fund — Wabashaw, for instance, 
 being mostly upon the half-breed tract, in 
 which there are no school sections reserved. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. They have an equivalent in 
 other lands. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. They have an equivalent 
 when all the best lands shall have been <jhosen 
 out, which is no equivalent at all. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. The section does not say 
 equivalent in acres. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I do not think it means 
 equivaleDt in value. 
 
 Mr, NORTH. The section does not say 
 equivalent in acres. I take it that " equiva- 
 /lent" means equivalent in value. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. The language of the ena- 
 bling Act is this : — 
 
 "That sections numbered sixteen and thirty-six 
 in every township of public lands in said State, 
 and where either of said sections, or any part 
 thereof, has been sold or otherwise been disposed 
 of, other lands, equivalent thereto and as contig- 
 uous as may be, shall be granted to said State for 
 the use of schools." 
 
 I think that means equivalent in acres. I 
 think so. My friend differs from me, and he 
 probably is correct. Now when we look at 
 the most populous counties in the Territory, 
 and see that they will probably, have their 
 school sections upon a bluff which is not worth 
 twenty -five cents an acre, and when we see 
 that the cities of those counties are the very 
 localities which most need the benefits of the 
 shool fund — for the children of the cities are 
 for the most part poor children — and when 
 we see the great inequality that system will 
 work, we ought to pause before we vote for 
 such a proposition. In the State of Illinois, 
 which is a prairie State all through, it might 
 be the case that the more populous the coun- 
 ty the more valuable the land. But that is 
 not the case here. I find that the school sec- 
 tions in the most populous counties, are the 
 least valuable. Now are you going to cut off 
 the populous counties from the benefit of the 
 school fund ; are you going to have the county 
 of Wabashaw to seek for her number of acres 
 after the best lands of the State are taken 
 up ? Are you going to leave the other coun- 
 ties to their school lands upon the bluffs, 
 when they have a population four or five 
 times that of counties which have fertile 
 school lands ? I say that is unjust, and I 
 say that any Constitution containing such a 
 provision w^ill not receive the sanction of the 
 people of Minnesota. I do not say that I 
 will vote against it, but I do say that I will 
 not vote for it. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. Under the Enabling Act 
 the question arises whether this Convention 
 has the right, or whether the Legislature of 
 the State of Minnesota has the right, to di- 
 vert the school lands, or the fund arising 
 therefrom in the manner proposed by the gen- 
 tleman from Rice county. These lands are 
 granted to the State for the use of schools in 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satckdat, Acgcst 1. 
 
 249 
 
 the State. They are not granted to the coun- 
 ties for the use of schools in those counties. 
 
 I am decidedly opposed to the amendment 
 proposed by the gentleman from Rice county, 
 and at the same time I am in favor of throw- 
 ing all the restrictions and safeguards around 
 that fund that I possibly can. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. They were granted to this 
 State in the same sense, we may say, that the 
 Railroad lands were granted to the State, for 
 the purpose of building Railroads in particu- 
 lar localities. These lands are for the benefit 
 of schools in particular localities — not only 
 in all the counties in this State, but in all the 
 precincts and school districts of the State. I 
 see nothing inconsistent in my amendment 
 with the provisions of the Enabling Act. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE called for the yeas and nays 
 on the amendment offered by Mr. Nobth. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being put, it was decided in the 
 negative, yeas five, and nays thirty -nine, as 
 follows : 
 
 Teas — Messrs. Ayer, Hayden, McKune, Mess- 
 er, and North. — 5. 
 
 ^ays — Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Balcombe, ■ 
 Baldwin, Bat«s, Billings, Belles, Butler, Cleg- 
 horn, Colbnm, Cogswell, Coe, Duley, Eschlie, 
 Folsom, Galbraith, Gerrish, Hall, Harding Hud- 
 son, Hanson, Holley, Kemp, Lvle, Lowe, Man, 
 tor, McClure, Morgan, Mills, Murphy, Putnam, 
 Peckham, Stannard, Secombe, Smith, Vaughn, 
 Watson, Wilson, and Sheldon. — 39. 
 
 The question recurred on the substitute 
 proposed by Mr. Ltle. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I am opposed to the sub- 
 stitute. I want to make an amendment to it, 
 but wish time to consider the same, and there- 
 fore move that the report be laid on the table. 
 We can take it up at any time. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I move to amend the sub- 
 stitute by striking out the word " exclusive." 
 
 Mr. ROBBIXS. I feel that the subject 
 now before the Convention is second in im- 
 portance to none which can occupy the atten- 
 tion of this Convention. It is also a question 
 of vital interest to our constituents, and it 
 goes home to their pockets. A question of 
 ordinary importance may be passed over, and 
 not arouse the attention of the commmiity, 
 but a question of this kind comes home to 
 their hearts and feelings at once. They have 
 A great inteKst in it. There is a quarter seo- 
 32 
 
 tion of school land near my residence, which 
 is worth $50,000. Now I do not want to 
 vote upon the question mitil I have had time 
 to think of it. I wish to know the provisions 
 of the bill all through, and I wish to act con- 
 sistently upon it. For that reason I move 
 that the Convention now adjourn. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH moved tiiat there be a 
 call of the Convention. 
 
 A call was ordered, and the roll being 
 called the following named members failed to 
 answer to their names : 
 
 Messrs. Bartholomew, Coombs, Davis, Dicker- 
 son, Foster, King, McCann, Phelps, Perkins, Rus- 
 sel, ^Thompson, Walker, Winel, and Watson. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN moved that aU further pro- 
 ceedings irnder the call be dispensed with. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. WILSON moved that the Convention 
 a-ljoum imtil half past two o'clock. 
 
 Mr. STANNABD. That motion is out of 
 order. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. A motion to adjourn 
 to a specified time, under a call of the House 
 is not in order. 
 
 Mr. HAYD£N. I move to reconsider the 
 vote by which the Convention refused to sus- 
 pend further proceedings under the call. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I belieT^ that a ma- 
 jority of the members who have spoken, have 
 expressed themselves m favor of this amend- 
 ment, and I want a vote upon it, but I do not 
 want that vote a finaUty. There are plentj^ 
 of amendments in the minds of members. K 
 the friends of this measm^ will allow it to be 
 amended hereafter, and not rush it through 
 to a flnahty to-day, I am willing to vote for a 
 suspension of aU further proceedings vmder 
 the call. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I rise to a question of 
 order. Debate is not in order. When the 
 Convention is imder a call, nothing is in or- 
 der, but a motion to adjourn, a motion to sus- 
 pend further proceedings, or a motion to re- 
 consider the vote refusing to suspend the pro- 
 ceeding under the call. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The question of order 
 is well taken. No motion is in order but a 
 motion to reconsider. 
 
 Mr. KEMP. I make that motion. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. Did the gentieman vote 
 with the majority ? 
 
250 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 1. 
 
 Mr. KEMP. I did. 
 
 The question was taken, and the motion to 
 reconsider prevailed; and then all further 
 proceedings under call were dispensed with. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH moved that the Convention 
 adjourn until half-past two o'clock. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move the previous 
 question. I believe that takes precedence of 
 a motion to adjourn to a particular time. 
 
 Mr, GALBRAITH. I move that the Con- 
 vention adjourn, and upon that I demand the 
 yeas and nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being put it was decided in the nega- 
 tive, yeas 13, nays 81, as follows : 
 
 Yeas — Messrs. Baldwin, Coe, Eschlie, Galbraith, 
 Hall, Lyle, McKune, Morgan, Murphy, Stannard, 
 Kemp, Smith, and Wilson. — 13. 
 
 Ifays — Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Ayer, Bal- 
 combe. Bates, Billings, BoUes, Butler, Cleghorn, 
 Colburn, Coggswell, Duley, Folsom, Gerrish, Hay~- 
 den, Harding, Hudson, Hanson, HoUey, Lowe, 
 Mantor, McClure, Messer, Mills, North, Putnam, 
 Peckham, Secombe, Vaughn, "Watson, and Shel- 
 don.— 31. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move to lay the re- 
 port and the motion for the previous question 
 upon the table. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR moved that the Convention 
 adjourn. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN demanded the yeas and 
 nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being taken it was decided in the 
 negative, yeas 9, nays 35, as follows : 
 
 Feffl*— Messrs. Baldwin, Eschlie, Galbraith, Hall, 
 Kemp, Lowe, Morgan, Secombe, and Smith.— 9. 
 
 iVays— Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Ayer, Bates, 
 BillingB, Bolles, Butler, Cleghorn, Colburn, Coggs- 
 well, Coe, Duley, Folsom, Gerrish, Hayden, Har- 
 ding, Hudson, Hanson, HoUey, Lyle, Mantor, Mc- 
 Kuue, McClure, Messer, Mills, Murphy, North, 
 Putnam, Peckham, Stannard, Vaughn, Watson, 
 Balcombe, Wilson, and Sheldon.— 35. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move that the Conven- 
 tion adjourn until half-past two o'clock. I 
 desire to say that I wish, so long as I am a 
 member of this Convention—^ — 
 
 Mr, WIIiSON. Is that motion debatable, 
 except as to the time ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is debatable. 
 Mr. COLBURN. I was about to say that 
 as long as I am a member of this Convention, 
 I shall reprobate all attempts to adjourn over 
 
 beyond the usual time, until after wo get 
 through with our work. And I hope the 
 Convention will discountenance every attempt 
 hereafter to adjourn over until Monday until 
 after the afternoon session. I consider the 
 action which has been had here by certain 
 members as an attempt to force us to adjourn 
 over until Monday, or else to do nothing at all. 
 I wish it understood that I am opposed to all 
 such proceedings. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I believe that so im- 
 portant a subject as the disposition of the 
 School lands of this Territory should not be 
 passed over in haste ; and that is the reason 
 why I aided what little I could in engineering 
 this matter as it has been to-day. The gen- 
 tleman may make as many charges as he 
 pleases, but I say to him that it is the prac- 
 tice of all parliamentary bodies to consider 
 Saturday as a dies no7i, and it is not custom- 
 ary to sit Saturday afternoons. It is a sort of 
 holiday. So far as the transactions of to-day 
 are concerned, I feel perfectly justified in what 
 I have done, in my own heart, and before my 
 constituents. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I wish to say one 
 word in explanation. I tell gentlemen that as 
 long as I sit here, I will never suffer so im- 
 portant a measure as this to be crowded down 
 my throat, until I have exhausted every spe- 
 cies of parliamentary tactics within my reach. 
 The expressions of members upon this floor 
 show that this matter has not been fully con- 
 sidered. It may be first rate as far as it goes; 
 and the only reason why I took such a part 
 in these proceedings as I have, was to preven- 
 the question being finally taken now, for I be- 
 lieve gentlemen will themselves, upon further 
 consideration, amend it themselves. And 
 how much shall we gain if we throw this mat- 
 ter before the public in its present shape ? 
 Does it go far enough? Is not another sec- 
 tion needed to complete it ? I think so, and 
 that was the only reason why I took the course 
 I did — not that I wanted to adjourn over un- 
 til Monday, for I care not whether we do so 
 or not. And here I wish to remark, tlicrc 
 are some gentlemen here most anxious not to 
 adjourn until Monday, who have not appeared 
 in their seats more than ten or fifteen minutes 
 at a time, for a week past ; and now they 
 come up and tell us wo shall not adjourn un- 
 til Saturday afternoon. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satueday, August 1. 
 
 2S1 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. It has been no object of 
 mine to force this matter to a vote. But 
 those gentlemen I referred to have voted 
 against adjourning until half-past two o'clock. 
 Between this time and that there is suflBcient 
 leisure to examine this matter. The fact that 
 they opposed every motion to adjourn to a cer- 
 tain time, satisfied me what their object was. 
 I do not come here to spend my holidays. 
 
 Mr. LYLE. I wish this Convention to take 
 proper time to consider this subject. I con- 
 sider it as the most important measure which 
 has yet come before the Convention. As the 
 mover of this substitute, I do not wish to 
 hurry it through. I wish to take sufficient 
 time to allow members to oifer amendments 
 which will guard the School fund of the State, 
 and I hope to see it done. I have voted 
 against adjourning over until Monday for the 
 purpose of advancing our business as rapidly 
 as possible. If gentlemen are not prepared 
 to offer amendments this afternoon, lay the 
 matter over until another time, and take up 
 some other business upon which we are pre- 
 pared to act. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. As the only motion 
 pending is to adjourn until half-past two o'- 
 clock, and as it is giving rise to considerable 
 debate, I move the previous question. 
 
 The previous question was seconded and 
 the main question ordered to be put. 
 
 The question was put, and the Convention 
 adjourned until half-past two o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS, &C. 
 
 On motion of Mr. HARDING, the Conven- 
 tion resumed the consideration of the report 
 of the committee upon Educational Institu- 
 tions and Interests ; the pending question be- 
 ing on the substitute offered by the gentle- 
 man from Mower County (Mr. Lyle). 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I believe a demand for 
 the previous question is pending. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I moved an amendment 
 to that substitute. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. That amendment was 
 not in order, as an amendment to an amend- 
 ment was then pending. 
 
 The demand for the previous question was 
 not sustained. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I now move to strike out 
 the word " exclusive," in the second section 
 
 of the substitute. It now reads "but no re- 
 " ligious sect or sects shall ever have any ex- 
 " elusive right to, or control of any part of 
 " the school fund of this State." 
 
 Mr. LYLE. I accept the amendment. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I wish to say now what 
 I was prevented from saying at the time the 
 Convention adjourned, and that is, that there 
 was a misunderstanding upon the part of this 
 Convention of the object of myself in calling 
 the previous question upon the adoption of 
 the substitute. It was the intention of no 
 one, so far as I know, to take any fiiial action 
 upon this matter at that time, but to adopt 
 the substitute as a basis. It would then re- 
 main open for amendments, if gentlemen had 
 any to offer. I had myself one to offer, when- 
 ever I found a proper place for it. 
 
 Some remarks have been made in reference 
 to the motion to adjourn. I voted every time 
 to bring the question to a vote, until I saw 
 the determination of the Convention was the 
 other way, and then I voted to adjourn. 
 
 I hope the substitute will be adopted, I 
 did not take part in the discussion this fore- 
 noon, but waited until something should be 
 offered which, to my mind, would be a proper 
 basis. If we adopt this substitute we shall 
 have the opportunity to amend it by addi- 
 tional sections, if the Convention is satisfied 
 with this so far as it goes. It seems to me 
 best to adopt it so far as it does go. 
 
 Mr. DULEY offered the following additional 
 section : 
 
 " Provisions shall be made by the Legislature 
 for the sale of all school and university lands. 
 Said lands shall be sold in small parcels and to the 
 highest bidder, except in cases where the land 
 may have been occupied previous to the govern- 
 ment survey." 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. If I understand the im- 
 port of the amendment, it is that the Legis- 
 lature shall provide for the sale of all 
 school lands, and that they shall be sold in 
 small parcels, and to the highest bidder, ex- 
 cept in cases where the lands may have been 
 occupied previous to the governmental sur- 
 vey. A question might arise how much of 
 the previous portion of the section may be 
 modified by the expression " except where 
 " the lands may have been occupied previous 
 " to the governmental survey." I suppose that 
 the intent of the gentleman was to provido 
 that those lands which should have been s 
 
252 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satueday, August 1. 
 
 occupied, shall not be sold to the highest bid- 
 der ; but that lands unoccupied should be sold 
 to the highest bidder — that the first should 
 be sold in some other way. I think the 
 amendment may be construed to make no 
 provision for lands previously occupied. 
 
 Mr. DULEY. I think the section very 
 plainly sets forth the terms upon which the 
 lands shall be disposed of, which were occu- 
 pied previous to the survey. I am aware that 
 a great portion of the school lands have been 
 settled on previous to the survey, and pro- 
 vision is made by the Enabling Act whereby 
 the State may receive an equivalent for those 
 lands. 
 
 Mr. HARDING oflfered the following sub- 
 stitute for the additional section : 
 
 " All school lands belonging to the State previ- 
 ous to being offered for sale shall be appraised by 
 a board of Appraisers who shall be appointed by 
 the Superintendent of Public Instruction; and 
 no such lands shall be sold for less than the ap- 
 praised value, but shall be sold in small parcels afld 
 at public auction." 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. There seems to be a dis- 
 position manifested by some members of 
 this Convention to prescribe a certain course 
 which the Legislature shall pursue. Now I 
 believe it is said tliat every generation grows 
 wiser and weaker. It seems to me that we 
 ought to leave something for the Legislature 
 to do. Now I never expect to occupy a high- 
 er position in public life than a representative 
 here, but others will probably be elevated far 
 above the sphere of legislator, and it is a 
 mistake when they come to the conclusion 
 that those who come after them will not be so 
 competent as they to attend to this matter. 
 1 believe that when we are dead and gone, un- 
 less it may be some at the other end of the 
 Capitol, there will be wiser heads than ours, 
 and they will be in the Legislature to control 
 this matter. I think the only thing we have 
 to do, is to lay down general principles and 
 leave the details entirely to the Legislature. 
 We ought not to say that those lands shall be 
 sold so and so, but leave the details with the 
 Legislature to prescribe as cu-cumstances may 
 require. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Mr. Pbbsident, when we 
 talk about the honesty of the Legislature we 
 nmst close our eyes upon the past. This 
 school fund is an inmiense one, I understand 
 that we liave about three million acres of land, 
 
 and they will be worth ten millions of dollars. 
 Now legislatures have been swerved from the 
 path of right, and to say that it is assuring in 
 us to restrict the Legislature, is not good logic 
 or good sense. No influences are brought to 
 bear upon us here. We are not surrounded 
 with the influences which speculators use with 
 the Legislature. Looking at the past we 
 must see the danger of leaving this thing un- 
 restrained. Therefore I believe it to be our 
 duty to restrict the action of the Legislature. 
 And by no principle of reasoning whatever, 
 can we avoid this conclusion. I do hope that 
 we, as a Convention, framing a Constitution, 
 will throw such restraints around the sale 
 of the school lands as will make it as nearly 
 impossible as practicable, for the Legislature 
 in any way, to squander them either by acts 
 of omission or commission. I am astonished 
 to hear gentlemen talk of the Legislature, as 
 though they never could do wrong. It has 
 almost become a matter of course, when there 
 is so large a pile as this, for the Legislature to 
 step aside from the path of right. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. If I understand it cor- 
 rectly, we now have the report, a substitute 
 for that, an amendment to the substitute, and 
 finally a substitute for the substitute. Now 
 I want to get at the bottom of this matter 
 once, and therefore I again move the previous 
 question. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I hope we shall not be 
 forced to a vote upon the question without 
 consideration. The amendment to the sub- 
 stitute offered by the gentleman from Winona, 
 (Mr. Duley) seems to have struck a point 
 upon which there appears to be considerable 
 difference of opinion, and I know not why 
 oiu: discussion should not be as well upon 
 tliis question as on any other. For my own 
 p:irt I am opposed to it. I am satisfied that 
 the substitute ought to be adopted in the place 
 report, and I am not willing to go any further 
 tlian that goes in restricting the action of the 
 Legislature. One gentleman is very appro- 
 hijnsive of the honesty of our future Legisla- 
 tures, and he reminds us of other and past 
 I jgislatures, where they have pursued a 
 V rong course. But I am reminded, too, that 
 Constitutional Conventions have made mis- 
 ti.kes, and so great mistakes that the people 
 have refused to endorse their action. And it 
 seems to me that we make a mistake, if we 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Sattjkdat, August 1. 
 
 253 
 
 restrict the action of the Legislature further 
 than is proposed in the substitute for the 
 report. The Legislature may think best to 
 adopt the system of leaving to the counties 
 or districts the management of these lands. 
 If they should, it seems to me tliat those 
 counties or districts should have the right to 
 sell the lands in such manner as they tliink 
 proper. If the proceeds are to be given to 
 them, the lands ought to be disposed of by 
 them in their own way. With the example 
 of Wisconsm before us, and knowing the 
 feeling which exists in community upon tliis 
 subject, I think it would be difficult indeed 
 for any body of speculators to buy up the 
 Legislature for the present. If there is any 
 argument to be drawn from the case of "Wis- 
 consin, I think it is in favor of leaving the 
 matter with the Legislature, because that case 
 will be a warning to them. 
 
 There are some other reasons why I am 
 opposed to putting these restrictions into the 
 Constitution. It has been said here that 
 there are a large number of men in the Terri- 
 tory interested in these school lands. Now 
 if you insert a clause in the Constitution 
 which they consider unjust, they will not be 
 likely to approve of the Constitution ; and it 
 may be that a majority for this or the other 
 Constitution may turn upon that very point, 
 and upon their votes. At any rate, I am sat- 
 isfied that a provision of this kind would pre- 
 vent many persons from voting for the Consti- 
 tution, and as I feel perfectly safe in leaving 
 the matter to the Legislature, I shall vote 
 against an amendment of that kind. « 
 
 Mr. NORTH. If there really be force 
 in that last objection, and if those men 
 who are upon the school sections are already 
 so strong tliat it is not safe now to take a 
 stand against them, I inquire how long it will 
 be before the whole of our school lands will 
 be picked up by those men ? 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. The gentleman must 
 have misapprehended my meaning. My idea 
 was, that there being nearly an equal divis- 
 ion of opinion upon this question, it would 
 require but very few votes to turn the balance, 
 and there might be enough of that very class 
 to turn the scale against the Constitution. 
 
 The amendment to the additional section 
 was not agreed to. 
 
 The additional section was not agreed to. 
 
 The substitute' for the report was then 
 adopted. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I now offer the following 
 as an additional section : 
 
 " Sec. — The proceeds of all lands that have 
 been, or may hereafter be gi-anted or set apart 
 and reserved by the United States, to the Terri- 
 tory or State of Minnesota, for the use and support 
 of a University, shall be and remain a perpetual 
 fund, to be |called the " University Fund," which 
 shall be appropriated in such manner as the 
 Legislature of said State may prescribe, to the 
 use and support of "The University of Min- 
 nesota," but for no other purpose. And the said 
 University shall forever remain one and indi" 
 visible." 
 
 I would say in support of the amendment 
 that in February 7, 1851, the Legislative As- 
 sembly of this Territory incorporated "the Uni- 
 versity of Minnesota," and provided for its gov- 
 ernment. It has been in operation ever since. 
 At the time it was incorporated, it was pro- 
 vided by the terms of the act, that all lands 
 which should hereafter be gi-anted by the 
 United States, should be a perpetual fund, to 
 be called the " University Fund," to be ap- 
 plied to the use and support of that Univer- 
 sity. I propose this section as carrying out 
 the terms of that act. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I can see no particular 
 use of that section. In looking at the second 
 section of the Enabling Act, I find all that is 
 necessary to be provided for in reference to 
 this matter. 
 
 • Mr. WILSON. Will the gentleman inform 
 us how many acres were granted for the use 
 of that University. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. There was passed, not 
 many days from the passage of this act of the 
 Territorial Assembly, an act of Congress 
 which provides that there should be set apart 
 and reserved for the use of the University in 
 the Territory of Mmnesota, two townships of 
 land, under the direction of the Secretary of 
 the Interior. That land has been, to a greater 
 or less extent, set apart'and reserved. There 
 was, I believe, some additional legislation by 
 Congress to the effect that the Board of Re- 
 gents of the University might locate the lands 
 subject to the approval of the Secretary of 
 the Interior. Those lands have been selected 
 by the Board of Regents of Minnesota, and 
 their location has been partly or wholly ap- 
 proved by the Secretary of the Interior. In 
 addition to that, there has been legislation by 
 
254 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satukday, August 1. 
 
 the Territorial Legislature, authorizing the 
 Regents of the University to raise a fund by 
 bond and mortgage upon those lands. That 
 has been done. And I understand the pro- 
 vision of the Act of Congress, called the En- 
 abling Act, as being merely the carrying out 
 of the [offer which has been made in the 
 former Act of Congress. A subdivision of 
 section five of the Enabling Act provides — 
 
 "That seventy-two sections of land shall be set 
 apart and reserved for the use and support of a 
 State University, to be selected by the Governor 
 of said State, subject to the approval of the Com- 
 missioner of the General Land Office, and to be 
 appropriated and applied in such manner as the 
 Legislature of said State may prescribe for the 
 purpose aforesaid, but for no other purposes.,' 
 
 My object is, that the University of Minne- 
 sota, as it has been incorporated by the act 
 of the Territorial Legislature, and as it has 
 actually received the benefits arising from 
 those lands, shall be made by the Constitu- 
 tion, the recipient of the benefits to be derived 
 from them. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I do not believe in 
 making ex-post-facto laws, or in making any 
 regulations which vrill vitiate the terms of 
 contract obligations. If I understand the 
 matter correctly, funds to complete the build- 
 ing have already been raised .by bond and 
 mortgage upon those lands. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I understand so. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I am not disposed to 
 tie up those lands in a perpetual fund, if they 
 have already been pledged for money which 
 has been expended. I certainly would not 
 put an officer of the University in a position 
 that such a provision would place him in. I 
 do not understand the act of Congress to say 
 that it shall be and remain a perpetual 
 fund, but that it is to be appropriated for the 
 support of an University, no matter whether 
 it be used to build a buDding, to purchase a 
 library, or anything else of that kind. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I move to amend the 
 amendment by striking out the words, " and 
 " the said University shall forever remain one 
 " and indivisible." I do not think it will be 
 divided, but I do not want the University so 
 tied up. 
 
 Mr, SECOMBE. By the act of Congress, 
 approved February Uth, 1851, it was provided 
 as follows : 
 
 "That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he 
 is hereby authorized and directed to set apart, and 
 reserve from sale out of any of the public lands 
 within the Territory of Minnesota, to which the 
 Indian title has been or may be extinguished, and 
 not otherwise appropriated, a quantity of land not 
 exceeding two entire townships for the use and 
 support of a University in said Territory, and for 
 no other use and purpose whatever, to be located 
 by legal subdivisions of not less than one entire 
 section." 
 
 And by the act of the Legislature of Min- 
 nesota, it was provided as follows : 
 
 "There shall be established in this Territory an 
 institution under the name and style of the ' Uni- 
 versity of Minnesota.' The proceeds of the lands 
 which may hereafter be granted by the United 
 States to the Territory for the support of an Uni- 
 versity shall be and remain a perpetual fund, to be 
 called the ' University Fund ; ' the interest of 
 which shall be appropriated to the support of the 
 University, and no sectarian instruction shall be 
 allowed in such University." 
 
 Here we have, in the first place, the estab- 
 lishment of the institution under the style of 
 the " University of Minnesota," with the pro- 
 vision that the proceeds of the lands which 
 shall be granted for the University shall be an 
 " University Fund," and shall be applied to 
 the use of that institution. We have then an 
 act of Congress setting apart and reserving 
 such lands, and it does seem to me that there 
 should be some disposition made of those 
 lands, as well as of the lands set apart for the 
 support of Schools ; and my only object is to 
 provide that that disposition shall be made in 
 accordance with existing laws. The amend- 
 ment I have offered, as an addition section, 
 embraces, so far as I have been able to do so, 
 that object. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. By a calculation of the 
 value of that land, I find it will amount to 
 some $400,000. That, the Legislature should 
 have the right to dispose of as it sees fit ; and 
 it may be necessaiy to make a branch of the 
 University, which could not be done imder 
 such a Constitutional provision. 
 
 The amendment to the amendment was 
 agreed to. 
 
 The additional section, as amended, was not 
 agreed to. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICII. I move to amend by ad- 
 ding, as an additional section, section four of 
 the report. 
 
 Mr. PECKIIAM. I move to amend that, 
 by striking out the word " four" in line five, 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satubday, August 1. 
 
 255 
 
 and inserting " five," and striking out " twen- 
 ty" and insert "fifteen," and striking out 
 all after the ^ord " school" in the sixth line 
 and insert " which shall not have been main- 
 " tained at least three months during the 
 " school year." 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I hope the gentleman 
 will accept an amendment to strike out the 
 words " three months." I think the interest 
 of the people will be sufficient to keep up 
 the schools for at least three months. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I hope the amendment of 
 the gentleman from Hennepin (Mr. Aldrich,) 
 will not prevail. I believe the District School 
 system is embraced in that fourth section. 
 That matter should be left to the Legislature, 
 to be provided for hereafter. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I am not particular about 
 accepting the amendment. I am aware that 
 dififerent rules prevail in different States. 
 Some States include scholars between the 
 ages of four and twenty, and others between 
 the ages of- five and eighteen. If our school 
 fund is to be as large as many gentlemen ex- 
 pect, it will be sufficient to educate all schol- 
 ars between the ages of four and twenty. 
 But I accept the amendment. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I move to amend the 
 amendment as modified, by striking out the 
 word " fifteen" and inserting " eighteen." 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I hope the amendment 
 will not prevail If it does, I shall be com- 
 pelled to vote against the original amendment, 
 entirely. I think that scholars should have 
 the privilege of attending school up to the age 
 of twenty -one. I have a family of children 
 whom I want to send to school ; and if we 
 are to have a graded system, I want the priv- 
 ilege of sending them until they are twenty- 
 one years of age, and I am opposed to re- 
 stricting the privilege to a less term of years. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. I do not understand that 
 the amendment will cut off any person 
 from attending school, as long as he may de- 
 sire. It only provides that the fimd shall be 
 distributed in proportion to the number of 
 children who shall attend school between cer- 
 tain ages. The rule will be universal, and 
 therefore just, equitable and fair through the 
 whole State. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. We have adopted a substi- 
 tute for the whole report, but I don't know 
 but we had better go to work and put in all 
 
 this report which we have once stricken out, 
 and insert all the minutia of legislation, 
 against which gentlemen have talked so much 
 for half the day. If so, let us make clean 
 work of it ; but if we are to adhere to the de- 
 cision of this morning, let us shut aU these 
 amendments out. I do not believe in going 
 over the whole groimd again. 
 
 The amendment to the amendment was re- 
 jected. 
 
 The amendment was then disagreed to. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I move the following as 
 an additional section : 
 
 " Sec. — The board of Supervisors in each 
 County shall constitute a board of Appraisers, 
 whose duty it shall be, within three months pre- 
 vious to the time any of the school lands in their 
 respective counties are offered for sale, to fix the 
 valuation thereof; and in no case shall any portion 
 of said lands be sold for less than the appraised 
 value, and only ia small parcels." 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. Mr. Peesident, I wish 
 the gentleman would fix the limit of the quan- 
 tity that may be sold — say how big it shall 
 be ; whether it shall be as big as a piece of 
 chalk — or twenty or forty acres. (Laugh- 
 ter). 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I will modify the amend- 
 ment so that it shall read : 
 
 " And shall be sold in quantities not less than 
 eighty acres." 
 
 Mr. COGGS WELL. Mr. President, I have 
 . an amendment to that, to come in at the end 
 of the section. 
 
 The amendment to the amendment was 
 read, as follows : 
 
 " Provided, always, If at the time of the ap- 
 praisement of any of said lands, the same shall be 
 occupied by an actual settler, who shall have made 
 improvements thereon, then the same shall be ap- 
 praised at the actual value of what the same would 
 have been worth provided the same had not been 
 occupied, and exclusive of such improvements; and 
 no person shall have the right to the possession of 
 any such lands until the value of such improve- 
 ments shall have been paid or tendered to the 
 owner thereof; and, in all cases, if the owner of 
 any such improvements shall be willing to pay 
 said appraised value, then and in that case, he 
 shall have a priority of right to the same." 
 
 Mr. HARDING. Mr. PBEsroExr, I hope 
 the gentleman will strike out that part which 
 gives the settler priority of right, if he chooses 
 to pay the appraisement at any time. I don't 
 like that, 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Mr. Peeside>t, I hope we 
 
256 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satuedat, August 1. 
 
 do not intend to pass such a law as this. 
 Where people have gone, with their eyes open, 
 upon the school lands, I am in favor of leav- 
 ing them to bear the consequences. If we 
 make such a law, our lands will all run down 
 to a dollar and a quarter an acre. I am in 
 favor of having every man bearing the con- 
 sequences of his own act. I think more of 
 the school fund, than of the interest of any 
 individual. And if we make one exception, 
 it will be a great loss to the school fund. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Mr. President, I do 
 not desire to talk on this matter ; but if gen- 
 tlemen are going to legislate here in regard to 
 these school lands, I want to say a word for 
 those men who have been so much abused for 
 going on these lands. I want those men pro- 
 tected to a certain extent. I desire the yeas 
 and nays to be called on my amendment ; and 
 that every member should be compelled to 
 vote for or against it, that we may see how 
 gentlemen stand on this school land legisla- 
 tion. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I will put down my 
 name ; and if any gentleman wants it plainer, 
 I will tell him, that I believe that every man 
 who settles on the school lands after the sur- 
 vey, and with knowledge of the fact, ought to 
 loose his improvements, if he were the angel 
 Gabriel dropped down ! It is a pubhc injury. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I believe that every 
 man who lays claim to one foot of these gov- 
 ernment lands, is a trespasser against the 
 State and the right of children yet unborn. 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. I would just as soon give 
 up the whole— just as soon these settlers 
 should have the remainder of the land. If 
 we are to do an unjust thing, let us do some- 
 thing notorious. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. Mr. Pbesident, If I un- 
 derstand the amendment, it is, that upon all 
 school lands that may hereafter be settled, up 
 to the time of appraisement, the improve- 
 ments shall be taken into consideration. It 
 says to these men, " put on your claims and 
 "improvements, and you shall be paid for 
 " them." My objection to the proposition is, 
 that it holds out inducements to settle the 
 school lands hereafter, 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. So far as I am con- 
 cerned, Mr. Pbesident, I had just as lief 
 make myself notorious in advocating this 
 amendment as not. I am entirely willing to 
 
 take all the responsibility — perfectly ready 
 and willmg to father the whole thing. But, 
 sir, when we come to look at the character of 
 the amendment, we find that it works nothing 
 like wrong or injustice to the school fund. 
 We do not find that the fund is to be depre- 
 ciated by it in the least. We find that when 
 the appraisement is made, it shall be, at what 
 the lands would have been worth,'provided 
 they had remained untouched and unoccu- 
 pied. Is not that enough ? If I ask'; for 
 more, I ask for injustice. Do you not get all 
 youl^coxild get, provided the land was not set- 
 tled upon ? I ask any gentleman if that is 
 not so ? — and if; when the land comes to be 
 appraised, the individual who has gone on 
 there and made his improvements, shall be 
 ready and willing to pay the amount of the 
 appraisement, does he not pay a fair consid- 
 eration for the land ? All that it is worth, and 
 all that men, acting under the sanctions and 
 obligations of an oath, say that it is worth ? 
 Do you want twice their value ? Do you 
 want one cent more than they are worth ? I 
 know you do not intend any such thing, when 
 you come to reflect upon it. I know that the 
 interests of the childi-en of the_^Stato do not 
 demand any such thing. They [demand noth- 
 ing but what is right and just; and I say, 
 when a man will stand up here, and ask of 
 these hardy settlers any more than what is 
 right and just, he is unworthy of the name of 
 a representative^of the people ^of Minnesota, 
 let him come from what quarter he may. 
 
 Besides this, Mr. President, when a man 
 has gone' upon a 'piece of school land, not 
 knowing so much about the lines as some 
 gentleman here ; when he has gone on inno- 
 cently, and for the purpose of making such 
 land his home as long as ho may remain in 
 this world ; when he has gone on cultivating 
 the soil and improving every day, making for 
 himself a residence and reputation, helping to 
 bear the burdens of government — I ask you, 
 sir, would you turn him away from his im- 
 provements and his home ? If any would do 
 that, I ask the man to stand up now before 
 the House and the people and say so. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITU (rising). I say so. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I say then, Mr. 
 Pbesident, that man is not the man to repre- 
 sent my section of the Territory. I say 
 moreover, that man isnot the man to rcprc- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES—Sattbday, Augpst 1. 
 
 257 
 
 sent the interests of the gchool fund of the 
 State of Minnesota ; and woe to the man that 
 will come into this Hall and undertake to 
 advocate a doctrine of that kind. I say, Mr. 
 Pbesident, it is rank iniquity and injustice ; 
 and I should not be true to myself and my 
 trust, if I did not pronoimce its condemnation. 
 
 All I ask is, that those who have gone 
 upon these school lands innocently, and not 
 knowing the collateral right, in the case, may 
 be protected ; that they may not be turned 
 away from their homes — ^homes built under 
 circumstances of peril and privation and toil, 
 when it was Hke drawing their life blood. I 
 know there have been such cases. I know 
 of many. I know them weU ; and to turn 
 such men away from their homes and their 
 improvements — I say it is wrong, it is iniqui- 
 tous and unjust ; and in my judgment the 
 man that would advocate such a proceeding is 
 not the man to represent the best interests of 
 this Territory. 
 
 Now, sir, let us do what is right and just 
 in this matter ; and that is, that the school 
 fund shall receive a just and fair consideration ; 
 and that at the same time, the man that has 
 gone upon the land, and given to it an increas- 
 ing value, shall not be turned out upon the 
 cold world without a dollar for his improve- 
 ments. I know there are men upon the 
 school lands willing to pay the price they 
 would be worth, provided their rights were 
 not to be touched — men who are able and 
 wflling to pay, and would secure and re- 
 secure the price — men of fenulies, who have 
 well cultivated farms — acres of com, wheat, 
 and potatoes — men who have paid taxes for 
 the support of government — good, honest 
 citizens. These men, sir, are part of the 
 wealth and prosperity of this Territory, and 
 I do not like to see them ruined. I will not, 
 if I can help it. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Mr. Pbesident, I 
 suppose it might be expected that I should 
 get a Uttle cross. But that is not the kind of 
 stuff that makes me cross. I have simply 
 to say on this matter — and I hope I shall say 
 it quietly and peacefully — that there is a 
 regular rule about everything. I suppose 
 every man will admit, that no man can settle 
 on a school section of surveyed land, without 
 knowing that it is a school section ; and I say 
 again, that, knowing what he is about, he has 
 33 
 
 no more right there, than if it were individual 
 property. He might just as well go upon my 
 land. 
 
 Now, where are you going to draw the dis- 
 tinction ? If 3-0U let the good, moral, indus- 
 trious, improving man go upon them, I can 
 go, and jTom, Dick and Harry can go upon 
 them ; and where one would go upon these 
 lands with decent husbandry, and increase 
 their value, one himdred would go upon them 
 skinning and withdrawing the life-blood of 
 the land. 
 
 These school lands are now held in trust 
 for the State by the government of the United 
 States ; and as soon as we shall be a State in 
 the Union, they vrill be held by the State in 
 trust for the children of the State, If we 
 aUow one to settle them, we must allow all, 
 else our rule will not be equal and democratic, 
 as gentleman would have us to be. TVe are 
 asking for nothing wrong. "We ask only for 
 the value of the land — the money the land 
 will bring ; and that these men shall not go 
 upon it and cultivate it, well or iU. 
 
 The best plan is to keep all and everybody 
 off entirely. That is the plan that I advo- 
 cate, and I think it is a plan that a majority 
 of this Convention will advocate. If one 
 man goes on, others may go — have not I as 
 good a right as any other man? — ^and then 
 get an appraisement, and an assessment of 
 damages ! Why, sir, the school lands in 
 every part of the Territory would be settled 
 upon in one month after such a proposition 
 should become a law ; and there woxild be 
 vast associations and combinations formed — 
 and they we already formed — to unite in 
 large bodies and break down the sales of the 
 school lands, and thus the school fund would 
 be thrown away. I tell you, sir, we ought 
 to hedge about this fimd; and that is the 
 only thing we have not done enough of. We 
 want a hedge about it. The proposition we 
 have just adopted is a good one. It enunci- 
 ates a good sound principle ; and if I can find 
 means to hedge about this land, so that no 
 man can go upon it to the hurt of the sdiool 
 fund, I shall vote for it. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I want to say a few 
 words in reply to the gentleman from Steele 
 County, (Mr. Cogswell.) He seems to think 
 there will be no other result of his amend- 
 ment than the protection of the settler. But 
 
258 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 8. 
 
 if I wanted to do a kind thing, especially for 
 the boys, to go into the woods and help them- 
 selves, I would vote for his amendment. I 
 know ther« are valuable timbered school 
 lands; and under this protection, the boys 
 could go upon them, cut wood as they please, 
 and get pay for so doing besides. I think the 
 gentleman's speech would look well, if he 
 were arguing for the repeal of the law, which 
 makes it the duty of the County Commission- 
 ers to supervise and prevent depredation and 
 waste of timber on our school lands. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered on the 
 adoption of Mr. Coggswell's amendment, 
 and being taken resulted — yeas V, nays 35 — 
 as follows : 
 
 F«a«— Messrs. Colburn, Coggswell, Hanson, 
 Mantor, Phelps, Thompson, and Vaughn.— 7. 
 
 Nays — Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Ayer, Bal- 
 combe, Baldwin, Bates, Billings, Butler, Cleghorn, 
 Coombs, Davis, Duley, Eschlie, Folsom, Gal- 
 braith, Gerrish, Hall, Hayden, Harding, Hudson, 
 HoUey, Lyle, McKune, McClure, Messer, Morgan, 
 Murphy, North, Putnam, Peckham, Stannard, Se- 
 combe, Watson, Wilson, and Sheldon. — 35. 
 
 So the amendment was rejected. 
 
 The question was then taken upon Mr. 
 Aldeich's second amendment, and it was also 
 rejected. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I now offer the following 
 additional section : 
 
 " Sec. — . Institutions for the benefit of those 
 inhabitants who are deaf, dumb, blind or insane, 
 shall always be fostered and sustained." 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. Mr. Pbesident, I pro- 
 pose to amend the section, so that it would 
 read, " Institutions for the benefit of persons 
 " who are deaf, dumb, blind or insane, shall 
 " always be fostered ; and the Legislature 
 " shall encourage the promotion of intellectual, 
 " scientific and agricultural improvements, and 
 " as soon as practicable provide for the estab- 
 " lishment of an Agricultural School, and 
 " place the same under the supervision of the 
 " Regents of the University." 
 
 The amendment to the amendment was re- 
 jected. 
 
 The original amendment was also rejected. 
 
 Mr, ALDRICH. I offer the foUowing 
 as an additional section : 
 
 " Sbc. — . The Legislature shall encourage the 
 promotion of intellectual, scientific, and agricultu- 
 ral improvements, and shall as soon as practicable 
 provide for the establishment of an Agricultural 
 School. The Legislature may appropriate all salt 
 
 springs, with the six sections of land adjoining or 
 contiguous thereto, to which the State, on admis- 
 sion to the Union shall be entitled according to the 
 provisions of the Act of Congress, entitled ' An 
 Act to authorize the people of Minnesota to form 
 a Constitution and State government preparatory 
 to their admission into the Union on an equal foot- 
 ing with the original States,' and any land which 
 may hereafter be granted or appropriated for such 
 purpose, for the support and maintenance of such 
 school, and may make the same a branch of the 
 University for instruction in Agriculture and the 
 natural sciences connected therewith, and place 
 the same under the supervision of the Kegents of 
 the University." 
 
 This amendment was also rejected. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I move that the rules be 
 so far suspended as to allow this report as 
 amended to be referred to ,the Committee on 
 Arrangement and Phraseology. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Was the substitute 
 adopted in place of the report ? 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. It was adopted without 
 change, except that one word was stricken 
 out. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. It seems to me that our 
 rules contemplate the reference after the re- 
 port is read a third time. 
 
 Mr. PUTNAM moved (at half-past four o'- 
 clock,) that the Convention adjourn. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. Before the question on 
 suspending the rules is taken, I wish to move 
 to amend the report by restoring the word 
 "exclusively," which was stricken out. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The motion is not in 
 order. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. I move to reconsider 
 the vote by which the Convention struck out 
 that word. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. That motion is out of 
 order, until the other motion is disposed of. 
 
 The question was taken on the motion of 
 Mr. Aldrich, and it was agreed to. 
 
 And thereupon, the report, as amended, 
 was referred to the Committee on Arrange- 
 ment and Plu-aseology. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. Folsom, (at 
 five o'clock and forty minut«s,) the Conven- 
 tion adjourned. 
 
 NINETEENTH DAY. 
 
 Monday, August 3d, 1857. 
 1'ho Convention met at nine o'clock, a. m. 
 Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. E. D. Neill. 
 
iriNXESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— M:o>t)at, August 3. 
 
 259 
 
 The journal of Saturday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 RETORT OP COMaOTTEE. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL, by unanimous consent, 
 made the following Special Report : 
 
 " The Committee upon the Preamble and Bill of 
 Rights, to whom was referred the Petition of B. F. 
 BoxD and others, citizens of the County of Dodge, 
 praying ' that the liberty and right of conscience 
 ' to all citizens may be secured,' have had the same 
 under consideration, and beg leave to report — 
 
 " That they believe it to be our duty to incorpo- 
 rate nothing into the Constitution except general 
 and fundamental principles, which are calculated 
 to guard and protect the rights of all men equally, 
 and that clause of the eighteenth section of the 
 BiU of Rights, heretofore reported by us, which is 
 ' Xor shall any control or interference with the 
 'rights of conscience be permitted, &c,,' will se- 
 cure substantially the objects desired by said peti- 
 tioners, and that if any farther specific or special 
 privileges in regard to the service of civil process, 
 and the days of holding elections, not mentioned 
 in the Constitution, are required, that the same 
 should be done, by the Legislature, and not this 
 Convention. Therefore, your Conmiittee would 
 respectfully ask to be discharged firom the farther 
 consideration of the subject." 
 
 The Report was accepted, and the Commit- 
 tee discharged. 
 
 COrSTY XSD TOWXSHIP ORGASIZATIOX. 
 
 On motion of Mr. Colburs, the Convention 
 resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, 
 (Mr. Galbhaith in the Chair,) upon the Re- 
 port of the Committee upon County and 
 Township Organizations. (For Report, see 
 proceedings of July 29th.) 
 
 The Report was read by clauses, for 
 amendment. 
 
 Sec. 2. No new county shall be formed or 
 established by the Le^^islature, of less area than 
 four hundred square miles, nor shall any organized 
 county be divided, or have any part stricken 
 therefrom, without submitting the question to a 
 vote of the electors of the county or counties to be 
 directly affected or dismembered, and unless a 
 majority of all the votes shall be in favor of the 
 same. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS moved to strike out section 
 two. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I hope the section will not 
 be stricken out, for the reason that the matter 
 of changing the boundaries of counties has 
 been a subject of firaud from beginning to end. 
 There is is no subject upon which there have 
 been more iniquitous proceedings, more high- 
 handed villainy, than in the matter of chang- 
 
 ing county boundaries and coimty seats, even 
 in our own Territory. It has been done as a 
 matter of political discipline in some cases. 
 It is made a matter of bargain in the Legisla- 
 ture, by promising votes for such purposes, 
 in order to procure votes for other matters. 
 Thus the interests of the people are bargained 
 away. There have been cases before the 
 Legislature — and it is said that some of our 
 Winona delegates were engaged in it, though 
 I do not know that it is so — when the Legisla- 
 ting came near fixing a county seat where 
 there was not a settler. There have been 
 cases where they have taken off a part of one 
 coimty and attached it to another, where 
 there was not only no necessity for it, but 
 where it made the county of a bad shape. It 
 has been so done for the purpose of making 
 political capital of some sort. Now, such 
 being the case, the Legislature ou^t to be 
 placed under some restraint in this respect. 
 The people know better than the Legislature 
 can know, what boundaries they need, and 
 I am opposed to having the boundaries of any 
 county changed until the people express a 
 desire for it. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I see nothing in this 
 section in regard to changing county seats. 
 We cannot make four himdred square miles 
 contain any even number of townships, and 
 the fact that it will contain a certain number 
 and a fraction, indicates to me that it was 
 recommended to subserve some special piir- 
 pose. There are many townships in the 
 Territory which contain nine townships, and 
 the people are perfectly satisfied. If they 
 want twelve let them express their wish to 
 that effect I have no objection to having 
 the people vote for or against such a proposi- 
 tion, but I am opposed to saying in the Con- 
 stitution, that they shall not have less than 
 such an amoxmt, for cases may arise when 
 cotmties with nine townships will be better 
 prepared to support the burdens of a coimty 
 oi^anization, than other counties with twelve 
 or twenty townships. My objection is not 
 that the people shall not have the right to 
 vote, for I would enlarge rather than restrict 
 that right. 
 
 Mr. MESSER. K the gentlemen has an 
 objection to the first part of the report, I hope 
 he will offer an amendment to it. I know that 
 last winter the Legislature came very near 
 
260 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 3. 
 
 removing the county seat of McLeod county 
 from Glencoe to a place upon a small lake, 
 when, in fact, there were no inhabitants with- 
 in five miles of that place. This is an im- 
 portant matter, and it seems to me that some 
 restriction should be thrown around the 
 power of the Legislature in that respect. 
 Something should be done, also, in regard to 
 the areas of counties, because I believe coun- 
 ties have been organized containing only one 
 township. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I am in favor of strik- 
 ing out this section, but not for the reason 
 that I am not in favor, substantially, of the 
 section, for I am. It contains a good restric- 
 tion, but there are many good laws and re- 
 strictions which it would not be wise for us 
 to insert into the Constitution. I was in 
 favor of the system of schools reported by 
 the committee the other day, but, upon reflec- 
 tion, I came to the conclusion that it was not 
 best to attempt to insert that system in the 
 Constitution. Now I am in favor of this 
 section, and were I in the Legislature, making 
 general laws, I should vote for such a law ; 
 but I do not think it judicious and proper to 
 incorporate everything which may be good 
 into our Constitution. Therefore I am in 
 favor of striking out the section. The county 
 seat question does not properly come into 
 consideration on the motion to strike out 
 this section, for that subject matter is in the 
 next section. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Now, Mr. President, I 
 hope this pretext of being opposed to legisla- 
 tion in the Constitution, will not be made, 
 when gentlemen know that the Legislature 
 will go astray. The very gentleman who has 
 just taken his scat, my colleague, offered an 
 amendment, the other day, to the third section 
 of the report on the Preamble and Bill of 
 Rights, which amendment went into the most 
 minute legislation, and now he comes up here 
 to-day and on a subject which interests every 
 county in the State, objects to it because it 
 is legislating in the Conslitution. I hope gen- 
 tlemen will not be driven from their positions 
 on any such grounds. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. My opinion is, that this 
 matter should be left to the Legislature. 
 This section, if adopted, would make those 
 counties which have already got their county 
 seats fixed to their present liking, permanent. 
 
 Now this is a new country yet, and as popu- 
 lation increases, it may be desirable to make 
 many alterations, and I would not so arrange 
 the matter in the Constitution that the people 
 cannot, without great delay, and immense 
 trouble, make such changes as they think 
 proper. 
 
 The section provides that no new county 
 shall be formed of less area than four hundred 
 square miles. 
 
 Now that does not contain an even number 
 of townships, and to fix the limits might 
 cause inconvenience in constructing the coun- 
 ties. Here are counties bounded by rivers, 
 and irregular lines, and it may at some time 
 be- convenient to lessen their size and put 
 them into better shape. It strikes me that it 
 is one of those provisions which may safely 
 be left to the Legislature. 
 
 The motion to strike out was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN offered the following sub- 
 stitute for section two : 
 
 " No organized county shall ever be reduced by 
 the organization of new counties to less than six- 
 teen townships, as surveyed by the United States, 
 unless in pursuance of law, a majority of electors 
 residing in each county to be effected thereby shall 
 so decide." 
 
 Mr. FO STER. My objection to that is that 
 there are quite a number of counties already 
 in the Territory which have less than sixteen 
 townships. In lowh the rule has been to 
 have not less than twelve townships, I believe, 
 in a county. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. My amendment has 
 reference only to counties which may be 
 formed hereafter. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. HARDING moved the following sub- 
 stitute for section two as amended : 
 
 "No new counties shall contain less than nine 
 townships." 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I rise to a question of 
 order. I believe it is not in order to strike 
 out a substitute after it has been once adopted. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair decides that 
 it is not in order. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. The substitute, if adopted, 
 would prohibit the formation of counties of 
 less tlmn nine townships, and would leave the 
 detail.s of the matter with the Legislature. I 
 am in favor of that. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. Thtre arc some very 
 large counties in this Territory and I contend 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Moxday, August 8. 
 
 261 
 
 that if the people prefer] to support smaller 
 counties, where it can be done without injury 
 to existing county organizations, they should 
 have the privilege j>f so doing. In some cases 
 we Uve twenty and thirty miles fix)m the 
 county seats of the present counties, and it 
 is attended with a great deal of trouble and 
 expense to go that distance to transact our 
 coimty business. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. This limiting the coun- 
 ties to a particular size strikes me as a child- 
 ish notion. I am always in favor of large 
 States, large counties, and large towns, if 
 possible. They possess more means, more 
 character and more influence. But whenever 
 the people are disposed to support a county 
 organization, I think it is proper that they 
 should not be restricted by a constitutional 
 enactment. I care not how large a county 
 corporation the people may wish, nor how 
 much Territory they may feel disposed to in- 
 clude within them. And I think it is their 
 privilege to say how much they win have. In 
 this western country, and especially in the 
 Territory of Minnesota, it so happens that 
 nature frequently fixes, as it were, the lines 
 of the counties, and it would be a very great 
 inconvenience to have the counties restiicted 
 to a certain size. For instance, there is a cer- 
 tain tract of land included within the forks of 
 a river, which it might be" more convenient to 
 have in a separate and distinct organization. 
 I am opposed to all restriction as to the num- 
 ber of townships which shall be included 
 within a county, for I am in favor of leaving 
 that to the people to decide that matter for 
 themselves. 
 
 The substitute was then rejected. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM offered the following as a 
 substitute for the second section as amended : 
 
 " No organized county shall be divided, or have 
 any part stricken therefrom, without submitting 
 the question to a vote of the electors of the county 
 or counties to be directly affected or dismembered, 
 nor unless a majority of all the votes cast shall be 
 in favor of the same." 
 
 The substitute was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I voted for that substitute, 
 as approaching very nearly to what we 
 wanted, but I do not think it is exactly the 
 thing yet. It gives to the large counties the 
 power of always preserving themselves from 
 alteration. I will oflfer now, as a substitute 
 
 for that, an amendment differing very little 
 from the original section. 
 
 "Xo new county shall be formed or established 
 by the Legislature of less area than twelve town- 
 ships without submitting the question to a vote of 
 the electors of the county or counties to be directly 
 affecJted or dismembered, and unless a majority of 
 all the votes cast shall be in favor of the same." 
 
 That will give the Legislature a discretion 
 in the formation of counties above a certain 
 size, but when it is proposed to reduce a coun- 
 ty below that size, it is made a question for 
 the people to decide whether they will stand 
 the burden of a small county. For instance 
 in the case of St. Paul and Ramsey County 
 there is no question but that the policy of the 
 people is to cut doMS-n their county to an ex- 
 ceedingly small size. It would be proper for 
 them to do so, and it would suit the other 
 counties around her. But if you leave the 
 matter in the form in which it has been placed 
 by the substitute of the gentleman from 
 Chisago (Mr. Folsom), it will be impossible 
 under the Constitution, to do so. Here is a 
 mass of p:ople whose interests are centered 
 within an area of a few miles around, and 
 they want to be together by themselves. The 
 same will be true in reference to other cities, 
 and I think we should leave the door open, 
 so that the people may vote to do so if they 
 see fit. I think it will prove an unwholsome 
 provision to put this restraint of a popular vote 
 upon the Legislature, when counties are to be 
 formed below a certain size. The Legislature, 
 last winter created a county embracing one 
 single ferm, as it were, which had only sixty 
 votes. Of course I want to see all such op- 
 erations stopped. On the other hand we 
 might err by prohibiting too much. I think 
 a medium ground is the best, and I hope my 
 substitute will be adopted. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. ^Yhile I am in favor of 
 the vote of the people being respected as a 
 general thing, yet I am opposed to the Legis- 
 latiire being absolutely bound by that vote. 
 The gentieman who has just spoken, alluded 
 to the County of Ramsey, and I will use that 
 case as an illustration. A portion of the 
 Coimty of Ramsey as it now exists, is sepa- 
 rated from another portion by the interven- 
 tion of two counties — the counties of Anoka 
 and Isanti — a portion of it being a hundred 
 and fifty miles away from the city of St. Paul. 
 Now all the provisions which have been offer- 
 
262 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 3. 
 
 ed here, would restrain the Legislature from 
 making a new county of that portion which 
 lies one hundred, and fifty miles away from 
 St. Paul, unless a majority of the voters of 
 the whole county should be in favor of it. 
 Well, there being a majority of the voters 
 here in St. Paul, and it being desirable that 
 the people living one hundred and fifty miles 
 away should help support the county organ- 
 ization ; they receiving no benefit of that or- 
 ganization whatever, they of course would 
 always vote against a dismemberment of the 
 County of Ramsey. That would be unjust 
 and unreasonable. There may be many in- 
 stances where the Iicgislature would see that 
 it was just and reasonable to dismember a 
 county, and form a new county out of two 
 or three other counties, where a majority of 
 the people of those counties would be opposed 
 to it. Of course, they would naturally be 
 opposed to having their county dismembered, 
 as they would thereby lose a portion of their 
 taxpayers. While I would have a vote of the 
 people taken upon such a measure to ascer- 
 tain what their views are, and that their views 
 should be respected, yet L would certainly be 
 opposed to the Legislature being bound and 
 governed by that vote. It would give the 
 majority the absolute power of restraining 
 the minority, when the Legislature would see 
 that it was eminently just and proper that the 
 wishes of the minority should be respected. 
 
 I hope therefore there will be some alter- 
 ation of this section. For my own part, I 
 would leave it so that no new county should 
 be formed until a vote of the people in the 
 part affected by it shall have been taken, and 
 I would leave the Legislature a discretion af- 
 ter that. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I wish to call the attention 
 of some members to the fact that this proposed 
 amendment does not come up to what we 
 want. It does not prevent changing the 
 boundaries of counties. For instance, there 
 is nothing to prevent cutting off five or six 
 miles from one county and adding it to anoth. 
 er, thereby making the shape of the counties 
 very bad. It does not prevent the Legisla- 
 ture from resorting to all kinds of tricks of 
 that sort, just as they have heretofore. I 
 hope the substitute will be voted down. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICII. I should like to see an 
 amendment offered, which should leave the 
 
 matter to be decided by a vote of the people 
 of that portion of the county proposed to be 
 cut off". If the people of any portion of a 
 county desire to be cut off from that county, 
 and to be attached to another, let them de- 
 cide it. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. If they, and the Legisla- 
 ture, should agree to that, nobody should ex- 
 cept to it. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. To leave the matter to a 
 vote of the people of that portion of the coun- 
 ty, would give the people living in that portion 
 of Ramsey county, situated one hundred and 
 fifty miles from here, the privilege of being 
 set off by themselves, if they desired it, in- 
 stead of being attached to Ramsey county. 
 
 I move to strike out the words " the coun- 
 ty" and all that follows it, and insert in lieu 
 thereof the M'ords " that portion of the Terri- 
 tory which it is proposed to set off or divide." 
 
 Mr. McKtFNE. I hope the amendment 
 will not prevail. The effect of it would be to 
 give the right to the minority to dictate to a 
 majority of the county ; and in that way, in 
 many instances, prejudice the interests of the 
 majority. By a few votes of a township, vo- 
 ting to be set off" and attached to another 
 county, a change of the center of the county 
 might be made, against the best interests and 
 the wishes of the county, thereby compelling 
 an alteration of the County Seat. For that 
 reason, I am very much opposed to giving to 
 a minority the power to say to a majority 
 what they shall do. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. It seems tome that there 
 can be no absolute rule laid down by this 
 Convention on this subject. The gentleman 
 from Hennepin county (Mr. Aldricu,) con- 
 tended that it would be right and proper for 
 the inhabitants of the portions of the several 
 counties to be set off", to determine that mat- 
 ter. Now I cannot agree with the gentleman, 
 because you scarcely find the inhabitants of 
 three or four counties that corner in together, 
 but would be desirous of forming a new coun- 
 ty ; especially when town sites are so much 
 in demand as at the present time. If the in- 
 habitants of those parts of the counties to bo 
 incorporated into a new county, were allowed 
 to govern in that manner, thc^ might do great 
 wrong to tlie inliabitauts of other portions of 
 the coimties. We had an illustration of that 
 during the last two sessions of the Legislo- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August S. 
 
 263 
 
 I 
 
 ture. An attempt has been made by the in- 
 habitants of a certain portion of Scott coun- 
 ty, and one or two other counties, to form a 
 new county ; and undoubtedly the inhabi- 
 tants of those portions of the counties calling 
 for the new covmty, were unanimously in fa- 
 vor of it. Yet tlie inhabitants, at large, of 
 the counties proposed to be dismembered, 
 were opposed to it. 
 
 Now while I would be opposed to binding 
 the Legislature by a majority of aU the in- 
 habitants of the counties to be affected by the 
 change, I would also be opposed to the Legis- 
 lature being bound to respect the will of a 
 majority of those who wish to have a new 
 county formed. I think the one would ope- 
 rate imjustly, as weU as the other. It seems 
 to me that we cannot form any absolute rule. 
 I prefer that it should be left with the Legis- 
 lature, but that they should first take the 
 sense of the people, not only in all the coun- 
 ties to be affected, but also the sense of the 
 people to be affected by the particular locality 
 which is desired to be formed into a new coun- 
 ty, and then leave it to their discretion. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. It seems to me that the 
 difficulty which will arise from incorporating 
 sections of this kind into the Constitution 
 must be obvious to every one. As has been 
 suggested, there are a great many counties in 
 this Territory cornered on to each other, and 
 lying in such a manner that by taking a few 
 townships from each, a new county might be 
 formed, with a County Seat more convenient 
 to those sections than the present County 
 Seats are. It is well known that at the pre- 
 sent time there is a great squabble for tlie 
 Coimty Seats. Many sections of counties 
 consider it absolutely necessary to their exis- 
 tance that they should have the County Seats 
 very near them. Under such circumstances, 
 we shall have a great deal of confusion arising 
 out of a Constitutional provision of this kind. 
 It may meet the particular casa of the gentle- 
 man who offered it ; but while it would answer 
 very well in that instance, it would work mis- 
 chief in many others, it appears to me. 
 
 The question was then taken, and the 
 amendment was not agreed to. - 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I offer the following sub- 
 stitute for the substitute : 
 
 " Skc. 2. No new county shall be formed or es- 
 tablished by the Legislature of less area than four 
 
 hundred square miles, unless a majority of the 
 qualified voters residing within the limits of the 
 proposed county vote in favor of the same ; nor 
 shall any organized county be divided, or have 
 any part stricken therefrom, without submitting 
 the question to a vote of the electors of the county 
 or counties to be directly affected or dismembered, 
 and unless a majority of all the votes cast shall be 
 in favor of the same." 
 
 I wiU explain the difference between that 
 and the original section ; and I think this is 
 what a majority of the members of the Con- 
 vention want. It is the same as the original 
 section, with this change — after the word 
 " miles," in the second line, I have inserted 
 the words, " unless a majority of the qualified 
 "voters residing within the limits of the pro- 
 " posed covmty, vote in favor of the same." 
 That obviates the difficulty suggested by ray 
 friend from Chisago. Where a new county 
 is to be formed, and the territory from which 
 it is to be formed is in such a shape as to 
 make it necessary that the county should be 
 composed of a less area than four himdred 
 square miles, it can be done by a majority 
 vote of the people residing within the Terri- 
 tory of which the county is proposed to be 
 formed. They are the ones to be affected by 
 it ; they are the ones who have to support the 
 county organization, and if they say that they 
 prefer a county of a certain size and shape, 
 let them have it. 
 
 My amendment then goes on to provide for 
 dismembering or changing the shape of or- 
 ganized counties. It accomplishes all we 
 want, and nothing more. It leaves the mat- 
 ter with the people of the counties, where 
 they are the only ones to be affected by the 
 change. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. KING offered the following substitute : 
 
 " No new county shall be formed or established 
 by the Legislature of less area than four hundred 
 square miles, nor shall any organized county be 
 divided, unless in the judgment of the Legislature 
 the case shall imperatively demand it ; but the 
 speculative wishes of the people shall not make an 
 imperative case." 
 
 The substitute was rejected. 
 
 The question was then taken on the substi- 
 tute offered by Mr. Foster, and it was re- 
 jected. 
 
 Sec. 3. No county seat shalf be removed until 
 the point to which it is proposed to be removed 
 shall be designated by two-thirds of the Board of 
 
264 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 3. 
 
 Supervisors of the county, and a majority of the 
 electors of the county voting thereon shall have 
 voted in favor of the removal of the county seat 
 to the proposed location in such manner as shall 
 be prescribed by law." 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I move to amend that 
 section by striking out the words " two-thirds 
 " of the Board of Supervisors of the county 
 "and" 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I move to amend the 
 amendment by striking out also the words 
 "shall have voted in favor of the removal of 
 the county seat to the proposed location." 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move to strike out 
 the whole section. I am satisfied that this 
 Convention should not establish any rule 
 which shall apply to aU cases indiscriminately. 
 The condition of our Territory will not admit 
 of such a general rule. 
 
 The motion to strike out was lost. 
 
 The amendment to the amendment was 
 lost, and the amendment itself rejected. 
 
 Mr, THOMPSON moved the following sub- 
 stitute for section three : 
 
 " No county seat shall be removed until a ma- 
 jority of the electors of the county voting thereon 
 shall have voted in favor of the removal in such 
 manner as shall be prescribed by law." 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I am opposed to that 
 substitute. I think it would place it in the 
 power of a few individuals in the county to 
 get an act passed to submit the question to a 
 vote of the people every year, and thus sub- 
 ject them to great inconvenience and expense. 
 I think when a county seat has been estab- 
 lished by the consent of the people, and pub- 
 lic buildings erected, they should not be sub- 
 ject to having the question of removal raised 
 upon them year after year. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I am in favor of the sub- 
 stitute. The gentleman from Chisago is op- 
 posed to a removal of the county seat when 
 it has been fixed by the people. Now it is 
 well known that that is not the way in which 
 county seats have been fixed in the Territory. 
 As a general thing, they have been located 
 arbitrarily by the Legislature, and without 
 regard to the wishes of the people, merely to 
 accommodate individual interest^ in particu- 
 lar localities. I see no objection whatever to 
 a Constitutional provision restricting the Le- 
 gislature in the exercise of such a power as 
 that, and leaving it to a vote of the people of 
 the whole county to determine. But I am 
 
 opposed to requiring that two-thirds of the 
 board of supervisors should first designate 
 the location. I hope the substitute will be 
 adopted. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I hope the substitute 
 will not prevail. I believe in delivering the 
 whole subject matter of covmty seats to the peo- 
 ple themselves, without any interference upon 
 the part of the Legislature. If we are to 
 have any provision upon this subject in the 
 Constitution— and I am opposed to that, as I 
 was opposed to the insertion of a clause in 
 reference to the size of the counties — I am in 
 favor of a provision which shall put it out of 
 the power of the Legislature to interfere with 
 county seats at all ; in favor of the section as 
 it is, putting the matter into the hands of the 
 supervisors, and the people. And I am also 
 in favor of the two-third clause, so far as the 
 supervisors are concerned. A majority of the 
 people should rule, but in matters of .this 
 kind a vote of two-thirds of the servants of 
 the people should be required. 
 
 Mr. HA YDEN, I am in favor of the sub- 
 stitute, because I am opposed to this tw'O- 
 thirds clause in reference to the supervisors. 
 That would give a small minority of the su- 
 pervisors the veto power. For instance, sup- 
 pose a large majority of the people were in 
 favor of the removal of the county seat, but 
 one-third of the board of supervisors should 
 be opposed to it; that one-third would have 
 control of the whole matter, and would de- 
 prive the people of their rights. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. If any gentleman is 
 opposed to the two-third clause, that need not 
 cause him to vote for the substitute, for he 
 can offer an amendment, giving the power to 
 a majority of the board of supervisors, instead 
 of two-thirds. As I understand it, it is the 
 intention of the section, that in the first 
 instance, the board of supervisors shall pro- 
 pose the removal, and designate the point to 
 which the removal shall be made. The pro- 
 posal must be carried by a two-tliird vote of 
 the supervisors, and the people are not per- 
 mitted to vote untQ two-thirds of the board 
 do vote and designate the point to which the 
 removal shall fee made. After that is done, 
 then the people have a veto power upon the 
 action of the board. That is, the people have 
 the veto power, and not the board of super- 
 visors. Gentlemen need not vote for the sub- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Mokdat, August 3. 
 
 265 
 
 stitute in order to get rid of the two-third 
 clause. They can vote down the substitute, 
 and then amend the section so as to require 
 the assent of only a majority of the board of 
 supervisors. 
 
 The substitute will place the matter in the 
 hands of the Legislature, and, as I said be- 
 fore, I am opposed to putting it in the power 
 of the Legislature to make any proposals 
 about the county seats. What do they know 
 for instance, about the necessity of removing 
 the county seat of Mower county? And 
 why should they have any voice in the remo- 
 val of it ? Why should not the people of the 
 respective counties have fuU power to do so, 
 if they think a removal proper ? The substi- 
 tute places the matter in the hands of the 
 Legislatiire as it always has been, with the 
 addition that the action of the Legislature 
 shall receive the sanction of a majority of the 
 people. I want it out of the hands of the 
 Legislature entirely, and in the hands of the 
 people entirely. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I am in favor of the sub- 
 stitute, but I will direct my remarks particu- 
 larly to the provisions of the original section 
 in regard to the board of supervisors. In the 
 first place, I agree with the gentleman from 
 Hennepin coimty (Mr. Haydex) in reference 
 to allowing one-third of a body of that kind 
 to have a veto power upon two-thirds of the 
 voters of this county. Again, I believe it is 
 a wrong course to trust the matter in the 
 hands of a board of supervisors atalL They 
 are elected to perform other duties, and ought 
 not to have this matter brought before them. 
 The Legislature is a better body to go to, 
 upon a mere local question, than the board of 
 supervisors. The very fact that they are 
 removed from the influence of local feelings, 
 is in favor of entrusting it to them. 
 
 Another thing. The section assumes that 
 there is to be a system of government by a 
 board of supervisors, established. That is 
 taken for granted, while I say that it is 
 exceedingly doubtful whether we shall estab- 
 lish that system, or a different one. That 
 matter is still undecided. In Iowa the people 
 had the liberty of selecting thdr own system 
 in the counties. Some counties that had 
 been accustomed to township organizations, 
 had the privilege of voting for the adoption of 
 such a system, while other covmties accus- 
 34 
 
 tomed to a different system, had the privilege 
 of voting for the plan to which they had been 
 accustomed. But this section assumes that 
 we are going to adopt a certain system. 
 
 The gentleman from Chisago, (Mr. Stax- 
 sabd) objects to the substitute, because he 
 thinks that under its provisions, a few persons 
 might come to the Legislature every year and 
 log-roll — and he is from a log-roUing county — 
 a bill through to take a vote of the people upon 
 this question. If I understand him, he is in 
 favor of our doing nothing at all about it ; the 
 result of which would be to leave the matter 
 open to allow anybody to come to the Leg- 
 islatm-e and log-roll a bill through, without 
 referring the matter to the people at all. Now 
 we need something to prohibit that thing. The 
 people should have the power to change 
 the county seats when they deem that the first 
 location was not a proper one. When our 
 counties shall become more populous, it may 
 be found more convenient to have the county 
 seats changed, and I want the Legislature 
 vested with power to pass a law giving to the 
 people the right to make such changes when 
 they see fit. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. In order to favor the 
 adoption of the substitute, the gentleman has 
 Jjrought in an issue not properly under dis- 
 cussion at this time — and that is this matter of 
 county or township organization. I am de, 
 cidedly in fevor of the supervisor township 
 system, and decidedly opposed to putting the 
 whole county business into the hands of three 
 or more coimty commissioners. I would let 
 each and every portion of the county have a 
 voice in controlling matters pertaining to the 
 county. It is a matter of very great interest 
 to the people. The gentleman's remarks in 
 reference to leaving this matter imder the 
 control of the Legislature seems to me to 
 prove that we should take it out of their 
 hands entirely. And I say to gentlemen 
 here, who have not bgen members of our 
 Legislature, that this coming to the Le^sla- 
 tture to get county seats removed, is a partic- 
 ular humbug and a sham, and I say it is an 
 interference on the part of the Legislature 
 which should not be tolerated. I have my- 
 self been guilty of favoring the establishment 
 of certain county seats. I acknowledge it. 
 I did it simply because it seemed to be the 
 practice of our Legislature to do so, and I . 
 
266 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 3. 
 
 was called on to act upon that practice by a 
 portion of my constituents ; and I acted under 
 what I supposed to be the direction of a ma- 
 jority of my constituents, in those particular 
 instances. But at the same time such things 
 are generally done under a log-rolling system, 
 and gentlemen vote upon such a question who 
 know no more about the propriety of it, 
 than if the county were in some European 
 colony. Local measures are made matters of 
 bargain and trade. Votes are obtained for a 
 particular measure by a promise of votes for 
 another particular measure relating to another 
 part of the Territory. One representative 
 knows what the people desire in his particular 
 locality, and if he can get such a measure 
 passed as his people desire, he will vote for 
 anything and everything else to accomplish 
 that end. That is especially the case with new 
 members — and the Legislature is generally 
 made up of a majority of new members. 
 Older members make them believe that they 
 cannot get their little local measures through 
 unless they vote for certain other measm-es. 
 
 Now I say, if we are going to put this 
 matter into the Constitution at all, we should 
 insert a provision taking the matter out of the 
 hands of the Legislature entirely, and giving 
 it to the people, and to the servants of the , 
 people in their respective coimties. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I would not be under- 
 stood to say that I am in favor of putting this 
 matter wholly into the hands of the Legisla- 
 ture, but I do say that we should have some- 
 thing like permanency in our affairs. I do 
 object to leaving this thing open, so that every 
 session of the Legislature shall be taken up 
 with considering this matter of the location of 
 county seats. I am in favor of leaving this 
 matter with the people, but I am opposed to 
 so leaving it that a few dissatisfied persons in 
 a county, or a few having a town-site they 
 want to improve, shall have it in their power 
 to go the Legislature every year, and log-roll 
 a bill through submitting the question to a 
 vote of the people of the county. I am op- 
 posed to subjecting the people of a coimty to 
 any such hardships. It would require them 
 to turn out every year to vote upon a question 
 which they want settled. Suppose a county 
 seat [is located, and the erection of county 
 buildings commenced, what would be the 
 result if this amendment is adopted ? Would 
 
 it not stop the erection of those buildings ? 
 Would the people feel like making permanent 
 public improvements ? Certainly not ? I am 
 willing, in all cases, that a majority of the 
 people should be this judge, buf I am opposed 
 to forcing them to vote upon a question of 
 change every year, at the instance of a few 
 persons. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I was somewhat amused 
 at the remarks of my good friend (Mr. Bal- 
 combe) when he first spoke. He said that if 
 the substitute was adopted, it would put the 
 matter entirely into the hands of the Legis- 
 lature, with some shght exceptions, and that 
 was that it would put it into the hands of the 
 people. Now that is quite an exception, for 
 in fact it would put the matter entirely into 
 the hands of the people for their decision. 
 He speaks of Mower county, the affairs of 
 which the Legislature would not naturally 
 know anything about. But it is natural that 
 the people of Mower county should know 
 whether they desire a change of their county 
 seat or not, and when the question is sub- 
 mitted to a vote of the people, I ask whether 
 they ought not to have the power to decide it ? 
 I am desirous that the matter should be left to 
 the people, and that they should have the 
 entire control of it. 
 
 Mr. KEMP. I feel some interest in this 
 matter and desire to introduce an amendment 
 to meet my views of the manner in which this 
 matter should be disposed of. Two years 
 ago, by a legislative act, the county seat of 
 Wabashaw County was fixed at Wabashaw ; 
 and that is still the county seat, against the 
 wishes of a large majority of the people. 
 There have been no public improvements 
 made there from the fact that no title has yet 
 been acquired to those lands, and it is possi- 
 ble that no title ever will be acquired. The 
 title may be in litigation ten or twenty years. 
 Under those circumstances it will be impos- 
 sible to continue the county seat there, and 
 to put up proper public buildings. I feel con- 
 fident that the people would remove the 
 county seat immediately upon the ratification 
 of a Constitution containing a provision sim- 
 ilar to the one proposed. It does not however 
 fuUy meet my views, and therefore I propose to 
 amend by striking out all after the word 
 *' designated" in the s«cond line, and insert 
 the following : 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Mokdat, August 3. 
 
 267 
 
 . " By a majority of the qualiiied electors of said 
 county, and a majority of the votes of such qual- 
 ified electors of such county being in favor of such 
 removal, shall have the effect of removing said 
 county seat indapendent of any legislative action." 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. That amendment brings 
 up the question whether the Legislature or 
 the County Commissioners or board of Su- 
 pervisors — whichever it may be — shall pro- 
 vide the time and manner of holding the elec- 
 tions and submitting the question to the peo- 
 ple. I am decidedly in favor of having the 
 County Commissioners or Supervisors pro- 
 vide as to the time, manner, and place of 
 voting upon this subject by the people, instead 
 of going to the Legislature, for their action 
 upon the subject They are better qualified, 
 under all the circumstances, to know the 
 proper time and places, and what the proper 
 manner is in which the people should be 
 called upon to vote upon this matter. I ask 
 gentlemen which would be the best body to 
 determine those matters ? Should it not be 
 determined by the immediate servants of the 
 people ? I say most certainly, it should. 
 
 Mr, KING. Who believes that we want 
 any better provision than the article as it 
 now stands ? I do not, and consequently I 
 shall vote against the substitute and the 
 • amendment. In the first place it gives to the 
 Supervisors the right to designate the place 
 of the proposed removal, and then it it gives 
 a majority of the people the right to fix the 
 county seat at the place designated by the 
 Supervisors. A fairer proposition we do not 
 want. 
 
 Mr, BALCOMBE. If the committee vote 
 down the amendment, I will offer an amend- 
 ment to give the power to designate the place 
 to a majority of the Supervisors, as also the 
 manner of holding the elections. 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 The substitute was also rejected, 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I now move to amend 
 the section so that it shall read as follows : 
 
 " Skc, 2. No county seat shall be removed until 
 the point to which it is proposed be removed shall 
 be designated by a majority of the board of Su- 
 pervisors of the county, and a majority of the 
 electors of the county voting thereon, shall have 
 voted in favor of the removal of the county seat 
 to the proposed location, in such manner as shall be 
 prescribed by the board of Supervisors." 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I hope the amendment 
 
 will not be adopted, I am unwilling to place 
 in the hands of the Supervisors, or any other 
 dass of men, the right to designate any sin^e 
 point in the county, for a county seat I pre- 
 fer to leave the whole matter to the Legisla- 
 ture, 
 
 Mr, COLBURN. I move to amend the 
 amendment by inserting after the word " Su- 
 pervisors" wherever it occurs, the words 
 " or Commissioners." My object is to leave 
 the coimties themselves to decide whether 
 they will be governed by a board of Super- 
 visors, or a board of Commissioners. I am 
 not myself in favor of the Supervisor system, 
 and especially am I unvrilling to place such a 
 system upon any county without their con- 
 sent, I think it may be so arranged as to 
 leave each coimty to say what system they 
 will adopt, K that matter, however, is to be 
 decided by us, my impression is that we 
 should adopt a system of county government 
 by Commissioners, rather than by Supervi- 
 sors. TMs report provides that each organ- 
 ized township shall have one Supervisor, and^ 
 those Supervisors are to constitute the county 
 board. Now in the county in which I reside 
 there are twenty-four townships, and the 
 board would consist of twenty-four Super- 
 yisors — a complete legislative body. It would 
 not be possible for them to transact business 
 except vmder the rules of a legislative body. 
 I do not believe the voters of that county de- 
 sire any such system, I am satisfied that they 
 will be opposed to it, and for that reason I 
 am opposed to the amendment. I want it to 
 be put in such a shape, that we can provide 
 hereafter that the counties may have their 
 choice of a system of county government 
 
 Mr. KING. It is much better to put tiie 
 disposition of the coimty seats into the hands 
 of a board of twenty-foiur, rather than three, 
 because this has become such a speculative 
 age, that you can buy a man as cheap as a 
 mule ; and if you have a board of only three, 
 you have only three mules to buy, which is 
 more easy than to buy twenty-four. The ex- 
 penses of a county is a thing the people are 
 going to look at, and the voting upon the lo- 
 cation of a coimty seat every year is going to 
 cost more than you calculate upon. How much 
 is it going to cost to build a court house and 
 jail ? Let them be built, and then buy up three 
 mules to say that the county seat shall be 
 
268 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 3. 
 
 removed, and by that time the people will 
 have their eyes open. The section cannot be 
 bettered, if you legislate upon it until next 
 Saturday. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. The gentleman must 
 have misunderstood the purport of my amend- 
 ment. It is not that thi'ee county commis- 
 sioners shall have the power to remove the 
 county seat, but that they shall designate the 
 place to which the removal shall be made, and 
 the manner and the place of voting upon that 
 question. I am decidedly opposed to the sec- 
 tion reported by the committee because it 
 enables one-third of the supervisors to con- 
 trol the action of a majority of the people. 
 Or rather, its operation will be to prevent a 
 majority of the people, wishing it, to have any 
 action upon the subject, whatever. I am in 
 favor of the amendment of the gentleman 
 from Winona, if the section is to remain sub- 
 stantially as it is. At all times it might prob- 
 ably be anticipated that one-third out of a 
 board of twenty-four supervisors, would favor 
 the location of the county seat where it is 
 already established, while a majority of the 
 people may desire to remove it, and yet would 
 never have an opportunity, under that system, 
 of expressing that desire. The section ope- 
 rates as a veto power, in advance, on the 
 people. 
 
 Mr. KEMP. I will read, for information, 
 an amendment I propose to offer, when it is 
 in order, which I think will accomplish that 
 desire. It is to strike out all after the word 
 "designated" and insert — 
 
 "By a majority of the board of supervisors of 
 the county ; and a majority of the voters of said 
 county, voting in favor of said removal, shall have 
 the effect of removing the county seat as pre- 
 scribed by the board of supervisors." 
 
 Under such a provision a majority vote of 
 the board of supervisors will place the ques- 
 tion before the people, so that their wishes 
 can be known on the subject. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBB. That is the same as 
 my amendment. 
 
 Mr. KEMP. Not exajctly. 
 
 The question was then taken on Mr. CoL- 
 bubn's amendment, and it was not agreed to. 
 
 The amendment ofiFered by Mr. Balcombe 
 was then agreed to. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I move to amend the 
 section as it now standi, by inserting after 
 
 the word " thereon," the words "at the next 
 general election." The object of the amend- 
 ment is to prevent the board of supervisors 
 from putting the county to the expense of a 
 special election on the question of removing 
 the county seat. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. If it is absolutely ne- 
 cessary to remove the county seat, the sooner 
 it is done the better. The commissioners or 
 supervisors will have the interest of the 
 county at heart, and they will certainly desig- 
 nate that time, imless the people demand an 
 election at an earlier period. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I think we can safely trust 
 the supervisors to fix the time. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I offer the following 
 substitute for the whole section : 
 
 " Counties already existing, and those which 
 may hereafter be created, are municipal corpora- 
 tions, established for the purpose of the better 
 carrying out those great objects for which all gov- 
 ernments, great or small, powerful or weak, were 
 instituted, to-wit : For the better protection of the 
 people in theii- lives, their libertiei, and their pro- 
 perty ; and not for the purpose of enriching or im- 
 poverishing the inhabitants of any particular 
 locality — and in the establishment or removal of 
 county seats the convenience and wishes of the 
 people of said county should be consulted, and 
 not the pecuniary gain or loss of any particular 
 locality. And in all cases when the inhabitants of 
 any part or portion of any county desire to be 
 disconnected therefrom, and added to any other 
 county, the same shall not be done without first 
 obtaining the consent of a majority of the votes of 
 both counties affected thereby. And the Legisla- 
 ture shall pass such general or special laws, from 
 time to time as will best carry into effect the fore- 
 going principles." 
 
 I wish simply to say, Mr. Chairman, that 
 we have adopted, I believe, a certain clause 
 in our Bill of Rights, which requires us to go 
 back from time to time to fundamental prin- 
 ciples, and it is a kind of song sung here, to 
 a certain extent, that in framing onr Consti- 
 tution we should lay down certain fundamen- 
 tal principles only, and not undertake to en- 
 ter into the minutia of legislation. And for 
 the purpose of carrying out that idea in regard 
 to coimty seats, their removal, and the dis- 
 memberment of coimties, I have offered the 
 amendment. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Sec. 4. The Legislature may organize any city 
 into a separate county when it has attained a pop- 
 ulation of twenty thousand inhabitants, without 
 
MINNESOTA CONATiNTION DEBATES— Monday, AracsT 3. 
 
 269 
 
 reference to geographical extent, when a majority 
 of the electors of a county in which such city may 
 be situated, voting thereon shall be in favor of a 
 separate organization. Cities shall have such 
 representation in the board of supervisors of the 
 cotmties in which they are situated as the Legiala- 
 ttu*e may direct." 
 
 Mr. COLBUEN. I move to amend section 
 four by striking out all after the word " or- 
 ganization." 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I move to strike out the 
 whole section. 
 
 Mr. COLBUEN. I accept of that amend- 
 ment in the place of mine. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I am in favor of that 
 amendment. The gentleman who moved the 
 first amendment wanted to stop at the word 
 " organization," and strike out the words 
 " cities shaU have such representation in the 
 "board of supervisors of the counties in which 
 " they are situated, as the Legislature may 
 " direct." Some provision of that kind is prob- 
 ably necessary. A large population may be 
 gathered into one city, and yet they might 
 really constitute but one voting precinct, and 
 consequently would not have a proportional 
 representation in the board of supervisors. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I do not see any necessity 
 of having such a provision in the Constitution 
 at all. If we do not insert such a clause, the 
 matter will be in the hands of the Legis- 
 lature. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I hope we shall have some 
 such provision somewhere. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I would call the gentleman's 
 attention to section five. We can insert that 
 provision there. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Section five prescribes 
 that a board of supervisors, consisting of one 
 firom each organized township, shall be estab- 
 lished in each cotmty with such powers as 
 shall be prescribed by law. I think it is un- 
 fair to say that a township having twenty 
 thousand inhabitants shall have a like repre- 
 sentation as a township having a hundred 
 thousand inhabitants. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. In Illinois the cities are 
 divided into townships, each of which elects 
 a supervisor. Chicago is divided into eight 
 or ten townships. That might be done here. 
 The object is to allow the cities to have a 
 representation in the board in proportion to 
 their population. 
 
 The section was stricken out. 
 
 "Sec. 5. A board of supervisors, consisting of 
 one from each organized township, shall be estab- 
 lished in each county with such power as shall be 
 prescribed by law." 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I move to amend section 
 five by adding thereto the words " cities shall 
 "have such representation in the board of 
 "supervisors of the counties in which they 
 "are situated as the Legislattire shall direct" 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I would suggest to the 
 gentleman that he should include both cities 
 and incorporated towns. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. It is necessary to have 
 some provision of this kind because one 
 supervisor from a large city, would not give it 
 a just representation. It has been custom- 
 ary in New York to have one supervisor firom 
 each ward of a city. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. But there may be 
 places having a large population, which would 
 not wish a city charter, preferring to remain 
 imder their town charter. I want the amend- 
 ment to include such places. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I accept that as a modifi- 
 cation of my amendment. The section thus 
 amended will cover all the groimd that is 
 desired. I hope the three following sections 
 will be stricken out. They define the powers 
 of the board of supervisors — ^a matter which 
 should be left to the Legislattu^. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. In looking over the report 
 I cannot find anything which provides how 
 the first precincts are to be made ; by whom, 
 and how the first board of supervisors are to 
 be chosen. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. The schedule will pro- 
 vide for that. I would inquire of the gentle- 
 man fix>m Rice cotmty, (Mr. Nobth) what 
 effect his amendment wotdd have in one 
 respect. The question arises whether the 
 Legislature at any time when it sees fit here- 
 after, can divide up the cities into a certain 
 number of organized townships, and give 
 each of them a representation on the board 
 of supervisors, or whether it is to be done by 
 a general law ? For instance, a general law 
 which may leave that matter entirely with the 
 board of supervisors of the cotmties in which 
 they are situated? If the effect of the 
 amendment is to leave the matter imcertain, 
 or to leave the Legislatture firee at any time to 
 organize new townships within the city limits, 
 I shotild be opposed to the amendment. I 
 think the Legislature should not have the 
 
270 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Mondat, August 3. 
 
 power to interfere with city organizations to 
 that extent. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I do not see how we can 
 very well avoid entrusting that matter some- 
 what with the Legislature. The city charters 
 themselves generally provide for the number 
 of wards in each city, and it has been cus- 
 tomary in some States to allow each ward in 
 a city to have a supervisor. Cities are incor- 
 porated with a larger or smaller number of 
 wards, not always in proportion to population, 
 and to lay down a general rule that each 
 ward should have a supervisor, would allow 
 the cities too many in some instances, and too 
 few in others. It is a matter of legislation. 
 If we lay down a general rule, it will surely 
 operate vmequally, and if we leave it with the 
 Legislature, it cannot operate more than un- 
 equally. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. These township organi- 
 zations are something new to me. But I 
 suppose the gentleman from Rice county, 
 coming from New York, knows how the 
 system works. In IlUnois the system is dif- 
 ferent. Chicago, for instance, is entitled to a 
 certain representation in the board, but I do 
 not know whether she is divided into wards 
 or not. She is divided into townships. 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. In Illinois each town and 
 city has at least one supervisor, and after 
 they reach a population of eight hundred they 
 are entitled to one additional supervisor for 
 each additional eight hundred inhabitants. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I was about to state that 
 fact. Some townships have half-a-dozen su- 
 pervisors in order to make them equal with 
 other towns in the county. The counties are 
 authorized to adopt a township organization 
 by a majority vote of the people,'and I should 
 think that about one half of the coun- 
 ties of the State have adopted such an 
 organization. The others have not, and 
 are still governed by a board of county com- 
 missioners. The matter is left to them to 
 them to decide, and I think that would be the 
 best course to adopt here. 
 
 It seems to me that it would be wrong to 
 make a township organization obligatory upon 
 the people, as this section does. It reads — 
 
 "A board of supervisors, consisting of one from 
 each organized township, shall bo established in 
 each county," 
 
 — Thus making it binding upon them. I 
 
 should prefer a general law, by the Legisla- 
 ture, giving to the people of each 'county the 
 privilege of adopting township organizations 
 or not, as they see fit. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I am decidedly opposed 
 to the establishment of a mixed system, as 
 suggested by the gentleman from Hennepin 
 county. I want either the one or the other, 
 out and out. Either the precinct and county 
 commissioner system, or the supervisor sys- 
 tem. I think uniformity is desirable. 
 
 Again, I would suggest an amendment to 
 the phraseology of the section so that it shal 
 read — 
 
 — "Shall be established with such powers aa 
 shall be prescribed by a general law." 
 
 I do not know as I can express my idea 
 about this matter fully. I wish to have this 
 matter of representation of cities in the board 
 of supervisors prescribed by a general law, 
 and not subject to the fitful action of each 
 Legislature that assembles. If the language 
 of the amendment proposed conveys the idea 
 that the representation of cities shall depend 
 upon a general law, which shall work the 
 same in reference to one city as another, 
 I am in favor of the amendment. But 
 if it can be construed in such a manner as to 
 allow the Legislature one year to give to St. 
 Paul, for instance, six supervisors, and the 
 next year, through lobby influence, double it 
 up to twelve, when perhaps the inhabitants 
 have not increased in numbers, I am opposed 
 to it, 
 
 I throw out these suggestions to see whether 
 it is thought by the mover, and others sus- 
 taining this amendment, that the language he 
 employs will apply to all cities equally, and 
 that a general law must be framed by which 
 all shall be governed ; or whether the matter 
 is subject to special legislation, 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I said before that I was 
 entirely willing to leave the matter to special 
 legislation, and I think tlie clause I propose 
 leaves it with the Legislature to act either by 
 general or special laws. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. Well I am opposed to 
 leaving in in that way. 
 
 The amendment offered by Mr. North 
 was then adopted. 
 
 Mr. OOLBURN, I now move to strike out 
 section five, as amended. It does seem to 
 mo that the remarks of the gentleman from 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 3. 
 
 271 
 
 Hennepin county (Mr. Aldbich,) are very 
 just, in reference to leaving it to the people of 
 each coiuity to determine their kind of county 
 government; and the gentleman from TTinona 
 (Mr. Balcombe,) gave no reason why he did not 
 approve of that He simply stated that he 
 was opposed to any mixed system. It is a 
 fact that in some of the counties, a majority 
 of the voters are New England people, who 
 are unaccustomed to this system of township 
 supervisorship ; and since they came here, they 
 have been tmder a system of commissioners, 
 as they were in New England. I am satisfied 
 that this revolution in the system of county 
 government, which this section proposes to 
 make, would be distasteful to the people of 
 those coimties. It may be, that in other 
 counties, a majority of the people may be 
 from the "Western States, where the system 
 of supervisorship has been generally adopted. 
 In those counties, they would imdoubtedly be 
 in favor of that system. I do think the pro- 
 posed system would be repugnant to the class 
 of counties I first mentioned. In the course 
 of time they might choose that system; but 
 at the present time they would not, and I 
 think it seriously objectionable to compel them 
 to adopt it. It seems to me that a section 
 might be introduced here providing that the 
 counties might select between the two sys- 
 tems. 
 
 And I believe further, that in every county, 
 the whole people of that county should have 
 an equal voice in the election of the men who 
 are to govern the county. Under this super- 
 visorship system, they might unite several 
 townships into one. In one section of the 
 county perhaps five or six townships may be 
 united and they have a population of not 
 more than five hundred persons ; in another 
 section, two towns may be vmited, and they 
 have a population of one thousand ; and yet, 
 if this system is adopted, a small township of 
 five hundred inhabitants has as much power, 
 as one with one thousand inhabitants or more. 
 Now these one thousand people pay more 
 taxes than the five hundred, and yet the su- 
 pervisor of the small township has the same 
 voice in expending the fund, as the one who 
 represents a larger amount of tax- payers. It 
 seems to me impossible to regulate that sys- 
 tem so as to make it equal and just to all the 
 peoplf of the county. If the supervisor sys- 
 
 tem is to be adopted, I think they should all 
 be voted for upon a general ticket, and by the 
 whole county. But the more serious difficulty 
 of deciding upon and arranging that system 
 now, is, that the counties are not prepared 
 for such a change. I prefer to have the whole 
 matter stricken out, rather than do that. I 
 would permit the present commissioner sys- 
 tem to prevail imtil it is changed by the Leg. 
 islatxire. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I move to atnend by stri- 
 king out aU after the third section, and insert- 
 ing the following : 
 
 " Sec. 3. The Legislature shall, at its first ses- 
 sion after the adoption of this Constitution, pro- 
 vide for the establishing of county and township 
 organizations." 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I hope that amendment will 
 prevail. I have listened to this discussion 
 with considerable interest, and have been en- 
 deavoring to make up my mind upon this 
 matter ; but it seems to me that we are get-* 
 ting into deep water, upon a difficult question. 
 The trouble is that the subject matter pro- 
 perly belongs to a Legislative Assembly, rath- 
 er than to a Constitutional Convention. I 
 feel myself incompetent to decide upon the 
 various points proposed, and I do not think I 
 should be called upon to decide here. The 
 substitute oflFered by my colleague is all I 
 ought to be called to vote upon, and I hope I 
 shall not be compelled to vote upon these va- 
 rious mooted points — mooted even in this 
 Convention. The suggestions oflFered by the 
 gentleman from Hennepin county seemed to 
 me valuable and weighty, and they ought to be 
 considered. This system should be matured, 
 if we are going to adopt it. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. My motion was to strike 
 out aU after section three. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. As that meets my views, 
 I withdraw my amendment. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. If the motion is agreed to 
 the effect will be to throw us back upon our 
 present system of government, until the Leg- 
 islature shall provide a system of future gov- 
 ernment. I think our election for officers this 
 fall will have to be held under the present 
 Territorial laws. In the first place, we do 
 not know as the Constitution wiU be ratified 
 by the people ; and if it is not, we shall stand 
 just as we do now. It leaves our present 
 system of government to stand imtil the Leg- 
 islature provides for a change. 
 
272 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, Auqitst 3. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I am in favor of the mo- 
 tion of the gentleman from Chisago (Mr. Fol- 
 soM,) to a certain extent, but I am not to the 
 full extent to which it goes. I am opposed 
 to a system of County Commissioners, and 
 equally opposed to the system of a Board of 
 Supervisors. The gentleman from FUlmore 
 county (Mr. Colburn,) stated that the County 
 Commissioner system was a New England 
 system. I do not so understand it. In New 
 Hampshire, which is the native State of that 
 gentleman, as well as myself, the system has 
 been a township system, wherein there were 
 elected officers called select-men, and the whole 
 affairs of the town were conducted by those se- 
 lect-men. There were no county officers that 
 had anything to do with the local affairs of the 
 several towns ; and formerly whatever coimty 
 affairs there were to be attended to — such as 
 paying the expenses of the courts and the ex- 
 penses of the coimty poor— were performed 
 by what were called side-judges — two coimty 
 judges to be elected in each county to sit by 
 the side of the presiding judge. They had no 
 duties to perform there, and they attended to 
 such county affairs as were strictly such. 
 Now that was a system I was in favor of; and 
 I would have in this State, township organiza- 
 tions, and have the local affairs of the town- 
 ships conducted solely by the townsliips 
 themselves. I would have officers elected in 
 each township — call them commissioners, se- 
 lect-men, or any other name — to perform the 
 business pertaining to each township. I 
 would have the roads and highway of each 
 township, constructed by itself. I would 
 have the poor which belong to each township, 
 supported by that township. Then it would 
 be necessary, of course, to have some officers 
 to transact the business of the county — ^busi- 
 ness which properly belongs to the whole 
 county, such as providing for the payment of 
 the expenses of holding courts, the expenses 
 of county officers, and other matters of gen- 
 eral interest throughout the county. 
 
 Now while I am in favor of leaving that 
 matter with the Legislature, I am not in favor 
 of striking out section nine of this report, 
 which provides for county officers. Section 
 nine is as follows : 
 
 " Skc. 9. In each organized county there shall be 
 a Sheriff, a County Clerk, a County Treasurer, a 
 Register of Deeds, a Prosecuting Attorney, a Su- 
 
 perintendent of Common Schools, a County Sur- 
 veyor, and a Coroner, chosen by the electors there- 
 of once in two years, and as often as vacancies 
 shall happen, whose powers and duties shall be 
 prescribed by law. The Board of Supervisors in 
 any county may unite the oflBces of County Clerk 
 and Register of Deeds in one office or disconnect 
 the same." 
 
 Those are offices that will be required, 
 whatever subdivisions may be made of each 
 county ; and if it is the effect of this amend- 
 ment to exclude the idea of specifying what 
 county officers there shall be, I shall be op- 
 posed to it. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I was probably mistaken 
 in regard to the New England system pre- 
 vailing in New Hampshire. I understand the 
 gentleman is in favor of the New Hampshire 
 system! Now I ask him if he is in favor of 
 electing two dmmny judges to sit by the side 
 of the presiding judge ? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I am not ; but I am in 
 favor of some county board to attend to af- 
 fairs common to the whole county. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I am in favor of that 
 system of township organization which ex- 
 ists in Massachusetts, and in most of the 
 New England States. There are some vari- 
 ations as to county government, but in no 
 case have they a board of Supervisors con- 
 stituted as this report proposes to constitute 
 them. 
 
 Mr. POLSOM. I do not see any necessity 
 for retaining section nine in the report. Our 
 present Territorial laws will be in force until 
 this Constitution is adopted ; and in the sched- 
 ule we shall probably insert a clause providing 
 that all laws of the Territory of Minnesota 
 not repugnant to this Constitution shall re- 
 main in force until repealed. Then the Legis- 
 lature can provide for these county officers, 
 and I see no necessity for inserting it here. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I am opposed to striking 
 out the ninth section. I heartily agree with 
 my friend from Hennepin, (Mr. Secombe) in 
 almost all he has said. I am a true born 
 Yankee, and have not lost all the Yankee yet. 
 I believe there are many things in the town- 
 ship organizations of New England, prefera- 
 ble to any other system I have any knowledge 
 of. I think it important that there should be 
 a clause in the Constitution prescribing what 
 county officers should be elected. And fur- 
 ther than that, I would have, instead of a 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 3. 
 
 273 
 
 board of Supervisors,'a board of county Com- 
 missioners, whose duty it should be to attend 
 to such business as the side judges performed 
 in New Hampshire. It would save a great 
 deal of expense in many ways, to have such 
 a board of Commissioners. 
 
 The question was taken on Mr. Folsoji's 
 amendmsnt, and it was agreed to; and then 
 on motion of Mr. Thompson, the committee 
 rose and reported the article as amended to 
 the Convention, with a recommendation that 
 the amendments be concmred in. 
 
 On motion of Mr. CLEGHORN, (at twelve 
 o'clock) the Convention took a recess until 
 half past two o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention resmned its session M half 
 past two o'clock. 
 
 COUNTY AND TOWNSHIP ORGANIZATIONS. 
 
 The Convention resumed the consideration 
 of the report upon the county and township 
 organizations, the pending question being on 
 concurring in the amendments recommended 
 by the committee of the "Whole. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I would enquire if it 
 would be in order at this time to offer a sub- 
 stitute for the whole report ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. In the opinion of the 
 Chair it would be. 
 
 Mr. COLBURX. I then offer the follow- 
 ing substitute for the whole report : 
 
 " The Legislature, at the first session, shall pro- 
 vide by law for county and township organizations; 
 and every county or township when organized 
 shall be a body corporate, and all suits for or 
 against such county or township, shall be in the 
 name thereof." 
 
 My object in offering this substitute is to 
 get rid of this system of legislation on the 
 subject, in the Constitution. A question, al- 
 so, has arisen in this debate upon which a 
 great diversity of opinion prevails among the 
 members of this Convention, and in regard 
 to which there will be a great diversity of 
 views anlong the people. Now I prefer, for 
 that reason, if for no other, that it should be 
 left to the Legislature, rather than settle it in 
 this Constitution. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I do not object to the 
 substitute to the whole report, as far as it 
 goes. But there are things contained in this 
 report which are not legislative at all, and I 
 do hope to see a part of this report, at least, 
 35 
 
 adopted. This matter of establishing new 
 counties is a source of the deepest corruption 
 in this Territory. The same has been true, 
 to a greater or less extent, in all the States, 
 and the older States are constantly amending 
 their Constitutions in that particular. The 
 object of those amendments is to put an end 
 to this interminable manufacturing of new 
 counties. Every man in the Territory who 
 builds up a new town expects that there is to 
 be a new coimty to surround it ; and the past 
 history "of our Legislature will bear one out 
 in saying, that it has been literally infested 
 every session by a set of men crying out for 
 new coimties. Every general bill for the gen- 
 eral welfare of the Territory has had, hitched 
 to it, from half a dozen to a dozen bills for 
 new coimties. Members' constituents im- 
 portime them for new counties, and represen- 
 tatives are tied up to a log-rolling system which 
 they cannot break away from without offend- 
 ing their constituents. Every man knows that 
 that lobby has been crowded by men affected 
 with a perfect itching for new counties, and 
 the cry continually is " give" " give." The 
 new States, and the older Sta^s, have come to 
 the conclusion that there is no greater som"ce 
 of corruption in legislation than this forming 
 of new counties. Now it is not legislation 
 to stop that matter here in the Constitu- 
 tion, and declare that it shall not be done 
 without the consent of the people. As our 
 laws are at present, the Legislature can manu- 
 facture new counties at pleasure. Take 
 this Territory now, as a general thing, it is 
 cut up into little pea patches, which have no 
 influence one way or the other. I hope the 
 provisions of this section will not all be strick- 
 en out. I have an amendment which I wish 
 to offer as an additional section to the pro- 
 posed substitute, and I hope it will be accep- 
 ted by the mover. It is as follows : 
 
 " No county shall be divided by a line cutting 
 off more than one tenth of the population, either 
 to form a new county or otherwise, without the ex- 
 press consent of such county, by a vote of the 
 electors thereof; nor shall any new county be es- 
 tabUshed containing less than four hundred square 
 miles." 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I do not accept it as a 
 part of my substitute, not so much that I am 
 opposed to it, as that I fear if it is attached 
 to the substitute it will kill the substitute 
 itself For that reason I shall have to vote 
 
2r4 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 3. 
 
 against it, as an amendment to the substitute, 
 but after the substitnte is adopted, I will vote 
 for the amendment. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. The reason why I 
 urge this amendment is, that the amendment 
 of the gentlemen from Chisago (Mr. Folsom) 
 which was adopted in committee of the 
 Whole, is not sufficiently definite. There are 
 cases where the representatives of two coun- 
 ties in the Legislature might agree that a 
 certain portion of one county should be cut 
 off and attached to another county for the 
 mutual convenience of each. But my amend- 
 ment provides that not more than one-tenth 
 of the population of any county shall be cut 
 off without the assent of the county. It may 
 be convenient in some cases, where a small 
 strip is desired to be taken from one county 
 and attached to another, to allow the Legisla- 
 ture to do it, if the representatives of the 
 respective counties agree to it, but that right 
 should not be extended to any considerable 
 portion of the county. It is no more than 
 fair that the people should decide such mat- 
 ters for themselves. It allows a sufficient 
 margin to the Legislature for straightening 
 lines, when the inhabitants petition for it. In 
 such cases there is no necessity for a vote of 
 the people, because in many cases the land 
 might not be worth the expenses of an elec- 
 tion. The plan I have proposed has been 
 adopted in some of the older States. 
 
 Again, as to the matter of limiting the size 
 of our counties. It is the general idea, that 
 counties should not be formed below a certain 
 size. Twelve townships would be four hun- 
 dred and thirty-two square miles. I think 
 that is sufficiently small. This interminable 
 making of small counties by the Legislature, 
 is injurious to the people, and the Legislature 
 should not be allowed to do it. We all know 
 that a county was organized last winter, 
 which was not large enough for a good sized 
 ferm. Do you suppose that that bill passed 
 by any fair means? Not at all. Shall 
 our State be cut up into small portions, and 
 the people subjected to pay immense taxes 
 for the gratification of a few individuals ? It 
 is usual now, in framing Constitutions, to put 
 some restrictions upon the Legislature in 
 making new counties. Such a restriction 
 would be a blessing to the Legiskture. It 
 would prevent their being dragged around 
 
 and button-holed by a set of men, importun- 
 ing them to make new counties for their 
 benefit. And at home, too, it would remove 
 that bitterness of feeling which would not 
 otherwise exist. The constant agitation of 
 the removal of county seats has a bad effect 
 upon our county organizations. I know that 
 in my own county — the smallest one in the 
 Territory except one — men hving in one 
 corner of the county have actually refused to 
 pay their taxes, simply out of this personal 
 local feeling. Now this local feeling would 
 never arise, if the Constitution should throw 
 a guard around this thing. I hope we shall 
 so act here as to prevent a recurrence of those 
 unfortunate and disgraceful affairs which have 
 disgraced, not only the Legislature of the 
 Territory of Minnesota, but of other States 
 and Territories. Remove this subject as far 
 as possible from the Legislature, and do not 
 allow our legislators to be driven into a 
 system of log-rolling to carry through bills* 
 for the organization of counties, which have 
 no merit in them whatever. Whenever it is 
 necessary to cut up a county, the people wiU 
 say so. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I have no objection to 
 the amendment, if offered by itself. The 
 object of my substitute was simply to get 
 rid of those provisions upon which there was 
 so much discussion, and such diversity of 
 opinion this forenoon. That was as to the 
 mode of government and control of counties. 
 If the gentleman will withdraw his amend- 
 ment, and allow the vote to be first taken 
 upon my substitute, and then offer his 
 substitute, I will vote for it. 
 
 Mr, WILSON. I hope the gentleman will 
 look carefully at this substitute. It will leave 
 us at sea, just as we were before, at the 
 mercy of town site makers. We know how 
 they have done heretofore, and I hope we 
 shall legislate for the future with the past in 
 our minds. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. The gentleman will bear 
 in mind that an amendment is to be offered 
 to fix that thing. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. The amendment of the 
 gentleman from iScott county (Mr. Gai,- 
 BBAiTii) docs not come up to near what I 
 want. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I wiU withhold my 
 amendment for the present. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Mokday, August 3. 
 
 275 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the substitute 
 will prevail, but only for the purpose of get- 
 ting a chance to offer an additional section 
 which will, perhaps, meet gentlemen's wishes. 
 
 The substitute was then adopted. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I now offer the fol- 
 lowing as an additional section : 
 
 "No county shall be divided by a line cutting 
 ofi more than one-tenth of the population, either 
 to form a new county or otherwise, without the 
 express consent of such county, by a rote of the 
 electors thereof; nor shall any new county be 
 established containing less than four hundred 
 square miles." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I am opposed to the sec- 
 tion proposed to be added by the gentleman 
 from Scott county. I am satisfied thai; we 
 cannot fix any arbitrary rule upon this sub- 
 ject, that will be just and equitable. The 
 gentleman from Scott county referred to the 
 provisions of other States. The condition of 
 things in those States is vastly difiFerent from 
 what it is in the Territory of Minnesota at the 
 present time. It is well known that the leg- 
 islation heretofore had in our Territory upon 
 this subject, has been legislation for specula- 
 tors, and for particular town sites ; that coun- 
 ties ^>ave been formed, not with reference to 
 what will be for the general good hereafter, 
 but with reference to what was the general or 
 particular good at the time those coimties 
 were formed. "We have been launched upon 
 a sea of legislation, which has already left our 
 counties in a very poor shape. I am satisfied 
 that the principle the gentleman contends for, 
 although it would answer very well to suit, 
 perhaps, the majority of voters in the county 
 the gentleman comes from, will, according to 
 his own admission, merely prevent a minority 
 of the people in his or any other coimty from 
 any longer grumbling or trying to help them- 
 selves. A portion of the citizens in the county 
 of Scott, which I believe in size is next to the 
 smallest in the whole Territory, together with 
 portions of the citizens of other counties cor- 
 nering into that, have been besetting the Leg- 
 islature, for two years, to form anew coimty ; 
 and in the course of proceedings, various 
 propositions have been made. It has been 
 proposed on the one side that the county of 
 Jefferson — the county desired to be formed — 
 should be established, subject to a vote to be 
 taken by the votes of the county of Scott and 
 the other counties from which the proposed 
 
 county of Jefferson was to be carved out ; 
 and if a majority of the voters in all those 
 counties shovdd be in favor of it, the new 
 county of Jefferson should be erected. On 
 the other hand, it has been proposed by the 
 friends of Jefferson county, that a vote should 
 be taken of that portion of those counties 
 which it was desired should be erected into 
 the new county of Jefferson ; and if a major- 
 ity of those people were in favor of the estab- 
 lishment of that new county, it should be 
 erected. Now neither of those plans is just 
 or equitable. A majority of the inhabitants 
 of Scott and the other counties are opposed 
 to cutting off any portion of tiieir counties, 
 and they would vote against it. Consequent- 
 ly, under the rule of action proposed by the 
 gentleman, the new county could not be es- 
 tablished. On the other hand, the voters in 
 the proposed county of Jefferson would vote 
 by a large majority that the county should be 
 established. If that rule prevails, the major- 
 ity of the voters of all the counties might lose 
 their property against their wUl. And yet, I 
 can conceive of cases where it would be ne- 
 cessary, in all justness, fiiirness, and equity, 
 that the county of Jefferson, or some other 
 county in like circmnstances, should be erect- 
 ed in opposition even to the will of a majority 
 of the counties from which it is proposed to 
 be taken. 
 
 I alluded, this morning, to the present con-.. 
 dition of the county of Ramsey, a portion of 
 which is separated from it entirely by two in- 
 tervening counties. Nobody would say but 
 what it was just and eqmtable that that p<)r- 
 tion situated a hundred and fifty miles away 
 from the other portion, should be erected into 
 a county by itself. But if we give to the 
 whole people of the county the power to re- 
 fuse to make it such, there is no safety to the 
 rights of the minority of the county living 
 that distance away. 
 
 Therefore, I am of opinion that it is impos- 
 sible to adopt a rule that in all cases will be 
 an equitable rule ; and, consequently, I am 
 opposed to the amendment, and I am opposed 
 to inserting anything into the Constitution 
 upon that subject. 
 
 The question was then taken, and the addi- 
 tional section was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE submitted the following, as 
 an additional section : 
 
276 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 8. 
 
 "No County Seat shall be established or re- 
 moved, except by the vote of a majority of the 
 legal voters of the county, which vote shall be 
 taken in such manner as shall be prescribed by a 
 general law." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I now offer as an ad- 
 ditional section, the amendment which was 
 adopted in Committee of the Whole this morn- 
 ing, viz : 
 
 " No organized county shall be divided or have 
 any part stricken therefrom without submitting 
 the question to a vote of the electors of the county 
 or counties to be directly affected or dismembered 
 — and unless a majority of all the votes cast shall 
 be in favor of the same." 
 
 Mr. VAUGHN. I offer the foUowing as a 
 substitute for the additional section : 
 
 "No new county shall be formed or established 
 by the Legislature of a less area than four hundred 
 square miles without submitting the question to a 
 vote of the electors of the county or counties to be 
 affected thereby. Nor shall any organized county 
 be dismembered unless a majority of the legal 
 voters of such dismembered portion shall approve 
 the same." 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Establish such a rule 
 as that and you put it in the power of every 
 heartless speculator, seeking to build up a pa- 
 per town site, to come into the Halls of the 
 Legislature, for the purpose of getting a new 
 county. Say that the dismembered territory 
 shall vote, and any paper town can vote, and 
 decide that it shall be a new county, and be 
 the county seat. It is ridiculous upon the 
 face of it — simply ridiculous. Now a county 
 is a municipal organization, and the people liv- 
 ing in it have a perfect control over it, and it 
 would be just as proper to say that the people 
 living in South Carolina may go out of the 
 Union upon voting to do so, as to say that the 
 people living within a particular portion of a 
 county, may go out of that county at their 
 own will and pleasure, by voting to do so 
 against the will of the whole county. A 
 county is created for the benefit of the whole 
 people of that county, and without the assent 
 of a majority of the whola people, a county 
 never should be dismembered and cut up into 
 atoms to suit the whims of a few men, and to 
 put money into this and that man's pocket. 
 
 Sir, the history of the past shows that it is 
 time that we should put such a provision as 
 I have proposed into our Constitution, and 
 stop this log-rolling all over the country. This 
 
 legislation about counties has been a nuisance 
 to the whole Territory,- and many States have 
 been driven, from stern necessity, to put pro- 
 visions into their Constitutions prohibiting 
 this thing of coming to the Legislature to get 
 new counties organized, for the purpose of 
 enabling this or that man to sell their town 
 sites. Have not we had experience enough 
 in this matter already ? I do not refer to my 
 own covmty particularly. Troubles exist 
 there yet. But do not troubles exist in other 
 counties ? Is there not a perfect mania for 
 making new counties through the whole Ter- 
 ritory ? As long as the power is in the Leg- 
 islature, men will beset them for the estab- 
 lishment of new counties. It wiU be in the 
 future as it has been in the past, and you can 
 hardly pass in the Legislature a bill for any 
 general object, but there will be tacked to it 
 bills establishing new counties, or establishing 
 county seats at places never dreamed or heard 
 of before. It has been done, and I have seen 
 it done. Now is it not well to put a stop to 
 ■such things, while we hare it in our power ? 
 
 But there should be a limit to the cutting 
 up of counties. Small counties must have as 
 good public buildings, the same oflBces and 
 the same machinery that large counties have, 
 and it costs as ^much to maintain a county 
 organization. As a financial question, then, 
 it is no more than proper that this Constitu- 
 tional Convention should take the precedents 
 established by the older States which have 
 taken this matter into consideration, and put 
 some restraint upon the Legislature in regard 
 to the manufacture of new counties. The 
 Legislatvu-e of this Territory, following in the 
 footsteps of the Legislatures of some of the 
 States, has become a machine for the manu- 
 facture of new counties — a patent right ma- 
 chine. Get up a bill in the Legislature on a 
 matter which interests the whole people, and 
 the first you know it is covered all over with 
 bills for the establishment of new counties, 
 and you cannot pass it without passing at 
 the same time those incumbrances. 
 
 Wtiy then will we stand here and vote down 
 every proposition to guard the rights of the 
 people in this matter. A majority of the 
 people all over the Territory are opposed to 
 cutting up and dismembering their counties. 
 Put it to a vote to-day, and I say that r.inety- 
 nine out of a hundred of the people would 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Mokdat, August 3. 
 
 27'r 
 
 vote in favor of such a restriction, and only 
 the interest of those paper town sites would 
 be opposed to it. Wherever there is a neces- 
 sity for erecting a new county out of a large 
 one, the people of the county will approve of 
 it. But if a majority of the people, whose 
 property it is, do not see fit to part with it, 
 who will say that they shall. A majority 
 should rule in this matter as in all others. If 
 any gentleman has any proposition which will 
 more effectually remedy this wrong, I will 
 vote for it. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would Uke to make a 
 proposition, and that is to leave the whole 
 matter to the Legislature, and I am more sat- 
 isfied now that that is the proper covu-se than 
 I was before the matter was discussed. I 
 wondered for some time how I should explain 
 the enthusiasm of the gentlemen from Scott 
 county, but I happened to remember Jeflfer- 
 son county, and all my trouble vanished. 
 "VV e ought to remember that we are not ma- 
 king a Constitution for Scott county alone. 
 JeflFerson county is not the only coimty which 
 should be guarded against in this State, and 
 the difficulty is to adopt a rule that shall 
 work well in all cases. While the gentleman 
 has a case which touches his interests and 
 feelings, making him so earnest upon this sub- 
 ject, we have, or had, in our coimty, a case 
 which operated in the other direction, and if 
 we had had a Constitution in our way con- 
 taining a provision of this kind, we should 
 never have been relieved vmtil the Constitu- 
 tion was changed. It would have subjected 
 us to great inconvenience — and I do not con- 
 sider a town of six hundred inhabitants ex- 
 actly a town on paper. There are necessities 
 which arise for changing coimty lines, which 
 accrue fi:om injustice done in carving out 
 counties, and it becomes the interest of all to 
 have the change made. There was a mutual 
 wish^^of some living along the line of Dako- 
 tah and Goodhue, to have a change of lines. 
 But let Goodhue vote upon a proposition to 
 give up a part of her Territory, and she would 
 vote against it every time ; and so would Da- 
 kotah county. And there never can be a 
 change of lines under such a provision as is 
 proposed by the gentleman fi-om Scott county. 
 No general rule can be established which will 
 guard perfectly every man's rights, or every 
 countiy's rights, and I know of no safer way 
 
 than to leave it to the sound discretion of the 
 Legislature. That is the course pursued in 
 the great State of New York, and in many 
 other eastern States, and no evil results from 
 it. Those matters have settled down into a 
 quiet condition, and when a necessity arises 
 for a new county, they make it, subserving 
 convenience, and doing no evil. I know of 
 no better method for us to pursue. But if 
 we are to establish a rule, do not let us adopt 
 one which wiU leave the people of one county 
 to control the people of both counties in a 
 matter which the other county should have an 
 equal voice in settling. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Some gentlemen ap- 
 pear very sensitive about matters. I am in 
 favor of this proposition from principle, with- 
 out any reference whatever to any particular 
 locality. Scott county can take care of her- 
 self. That is all I have to say about that. I 
 am interested in that matter, and I have an- 
 nounced my opinion so often, that every gen- 
 tleman understands it. 
 
 I beUeve that a provision of this kind is 
 for the general good. Take the Constitutions 
 of different States which have recently been 
 established, and gentlemen will see that they 
 put limits upon the power of the Legislature 
 in this matter. Pennsylvania for a time had 
 no provision in her Constitution upon this 
 subject, and the matter got to such a pass 
 that no bill could pass the Legislature, be- 
 cause some new county scheme defeated it. 
 Hence the people petitioned for a change, and 
 last winter they amended their Constitution 
 by just such a provision as I have offered. I 
 look upon it as a sound rule of policy, that 
 this matter should have guards thrown around 
 it in some way. Leave it to the sound dis- 
 cretion of the Legislature! You have had 
 experience of that course already, and you 
 know how it works, and the experience of 
 the State has not been different from ours. 
 The Legislature are not left to their sound 
 discretion. They have their public bills 
 which they wish to carry through, but it is 
 impossible to do it, when twenty or thirty 
 men stand out and say they will not vote for 
 them unless they put their county bills 
 through. That condition is made a sine qua 
 non to the passage of public bills. Can we 
 not put a stop to that ? I urge it not because 
 I am a representative of Scott county. There 
 
278 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 3. 
 
 are a number of other counties now interested 
 in this matter — Fillmore county among the 
 rest — and unless we now adopt some provis- 
 ion in regard to this subject, our future State 
 will be forced to it at some future time. One 
 gentleman says our counties are left in a bad 
 position now. Well if we allow it to go on 
 when shall we cure the evil ? Is not this the 
 time to cure it ? 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL moved that the Con- 
 vention adjourn. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I want to quote one of the 
 provisions of another State, to which the gen- 
 tleman from Scott county has referred. It is 
 satisfactory to me entirely. The Constitu- 
 tion of Illinois provides — 
 
 " There shall be no Territory stricken from any 
 county unless a majority of the voters living in 
 such Territory shall petition for such a division ; 
 and no Territory shall be added to any county 
 without the consent of a majority of the voters of 
 the county to which it is proposed to be added." 
 
 Mr. "WILSON. Let me inform the gentle- 
 man from Rice county that the Constitution 
 of Iowa, framed last spring, has a section 
 detinite and pointed upon that subject. 
 
 A VOICE. It has not been adopted. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I know it has not, but 
 there is no dDubt but that it will be. It 
 shows, at any rate, the feeling of the people 
 of that State upon the subject. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I hope this amendment, 
 as an additional section, will not be adopted 
 by this Convention, and I need oiFer no other 
 reason than that given by the gentleman from 
 Scott county himself Adopt the amendment 
 and you immediately array a large portion of 
 the people of this Territory against the Con- 
 stitution. Why ? Because there are a large 
 number of people in this Territory who want 
 new counties created. 
 
 The gentleman has referred to Fillmore 
 county. I do not doubt that there are a large 
 number of people in Fillmore county who 
 desire that the west part of the county should 
 be set off as a new county with the east part 
 of Mower county. Now let this proposition 
 be adopted and you array the balance of the 
 citizens of Fillmore county against the Con- 
 stitution, because they will be deprived of 
 their just rights in that matter. They will 
 be dismembered by a portion of their county 
 being taken off, which helps to pay the taxes 
 
 of that county, and that too without their 
 having any voice in the matter, whatever. It 
 will operate in the same way in other portions 
 of the Territory. On the other hand, adopt 
 the amendment of the gentleman from Scott 
 county, and you will array against the 
 Constitution, that portion of the people living 
 in the west part of Fillmore county, and the 
 east part of Mower county. You cannot 
 adopt either proposition without that conse- 
 quence following. The people feel deeply 
 upon this subject, as deeply as the gentleman 
 from Scott county who oifei'ed one of the 
 pending amendments. I want to avoid com- 
 ing in conflict with that feeling. If this mat- 
 ter is to be decided upon its merits, let it be 
 decided by the Legislature, and not by a Con- 
 stitutional Convention. If representatives 
 from Fillmore county come into the Legisla- 
 ture, they wUl be arrayed against each other 
 upon that question, and both sides will be 
 discussed, and then if the Legislature, after 
 hearing both sides of the argument, see fit to 
 create a new county, let it be done. 
 
 It is said that bills will be log-rolled through. 
 You cannot prevent that by any thing you 
 may put into the Constitution. If you pre- 
 vent it upon this matter, you leave other mat- 
 ters open. Every Legislative body is affected 
 with that failing more or less; This traffick- 
 ing for votes in legislative bodies is conunon, 
 and customary, but because it is customary, 
 is it any reason why we should insert such a 
 provision in the Constitution ? I trust that 
 both the amendment and substitute will be 
 voted down. 
 
 The question was then taken on Mr. Vaughn's 
 substitute, and it was rejected. 
 
 The question recun'ed on Mr. GALBRAiTn,s 
 amendment. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. This amendment was 
 adopted in committee this morning, but I am 
 afraid I see a change in the votes from what 
 they were in the morning, but I cannot see 
 why. Who has not noticed the action of the 
 Legislature upon this subject ? Sitting in my 
 otficc at home last winter, it was amusing to 
 hear the schemes which were laid, and the 
 arrangements which were made to got certain 
 matters of this kind throu<rh the Legislature. 
 "Here," says one man, "I am going to lay 
 " out a town, and I am going up to the Le- 
 " gislature to have a piece cutoff of this county 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, Arorsr 3. 
 
 279 
 
 "and a piece off of that county and make a 
 " new county, and then I will sell off my town, 
 "and make a fortune out of it." He was 
 going to give so much to this man in the 
 Legislature, and so much to that man, and 
 those men would have interest enough in it to 
 put it through the Legislature. 
 
 True it looks like viliainy run to seed. It 
 is imposition of the vilest sort, but it is done 
 under the guise of speculation, and though I 
 laughed at it in my office at home, I cannot 
 here, under the sanction of my oath. The 
 man who can get up here and say that the 
 Legislatvu"e will hereafter do what is right in 
 this matter, must have a stronger belief in 
 the honesty of the Legislature than I have. 
 When I see a man^do wrong again and again, 
 I believe he will continue to do so, and ihe 
 same rule holds to the Legislature. I want 
 to place this matter out of their reach. I do 
 not want to hold out anything as a tempta- 
 tion to the Legislature, for they can go far 
 enough without temptation. 
 
 The clause of the Constitution of Illinois, 
 which was read by the gentleman from Rice 
 county, was adopted in 1847. Few knew 
 ten years ago the length to which this thing 
 would be carried, and that is reason enough 
 for that provision. Few knew that coimty 
 seats would be established w"here there was 
 not a house. But now, he is no genius who 
 cannot invent such a scheme as that. 
 
 We now have it in our power to put a stop 
 to this thing, and why should we not do it ? 
 I lay it down as a principle on which I act in 
 every case, that where I know a thing is com- 
 pletely and absolutely right, I vote for it. And 
 that is the light in which I view this matter. 
 I do not care if it does savor of legislation. 
 I shall not be scared by that cry. This is 
 clearly demanded of me, on account of the 
 past action of our Territorial Legislature, and 
 I infer that they will act hereafter as they 
 have heretofore. I think that is a safe mode 
 of judging. What county is safe ? Who 
 knows what trades will be made? Who 
 does not know that some representatives are 
 elected with direct reference to some little 
 coimty seat operation? It is true that all 
 general rules wiU work some hardships. But 
 look now at the counties of Minnesota, and 
 tell me which is the greatest hardship, to 
 leave them as they are, subject to this system 
 
 of fraud, by leaving it tmrestrained, or an 
 individual case of wrong now and then 
 inflicted by a general rule ? 
 
 Mr. NO^H. I am glad to hear the gen- 
 tleman from Winona say that he is going for 
 what he believes is absolutely right upon every 
 case. I hope he wiU bear that in mind when 
 the suffrage question comes up. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. And upon the women's 
 right question. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. There are many cases the 
 gentleman is committed on. The gentleman 
 seems to argue this question as though no in- 
 justice or hardship is done except by forming 
 new counties, and cutting up the present 
 coimties. It strikes me that there are in- 
 stances where great injustice may be done by 
 not doing something of that sort. I am far 
 from believing that the coimties in their pre- 
 sent shape are perfect. I am far from think- 
 ing that that small county formed last winter, 
 should forever remain in its present form. I 
 think it should be cut up, and cut up so as 
 to take the whole of it and put it into some 
 county where there are more lands. I think 
 there are other counties not perfect in their 
 form. In a county settling as fast as this is, 
 new business towns are springing up, where 
 people go to transact their business and where 
 county seats should be; but if county Hnes 
 are to remain forever unchanged, men must 
 remain forever subject to the inconvenience of 
 going to other towns to transact their public 
 business. There are portions of counties not 
 much settled as yet, which are remote from 
 the county seats to which they belong, but 
 are nearer to the county seats of other coun- 
 ties, where it would be convenient for the peo- 
 ple to go to transact their public business. 
 But submit the question to the vote of the 
 county to which they belong, and what is the 
 result ? The county would not allow them to 
 be set off, and they could never get released 
 until doomsday. They would be perpetually 
 subjected to that inconvenience and injustice. 
 
 But the gentleman says legislators make 
 bargains for the purpose of cutting up coun- 
 ties and making new towns. Did it never oc- 
 cur to the gentleman that bargains are made 
 upon the other side ? and perhaps as numer- 
 ous as upon that side ? I am inclined to think 
 that legislative bodies, when the cases arise, 
 are competent to scrutinize those questions. 
 
280 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 3. 
 
 I am aware that injustice is sometimes done. I 
 am aware also that injustice wovild be done if 
 the hands of the legislature were tied so that 
 they could not do what was just^hen a case 
 comes before them ; there are two sides to be 
 considered. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. As I represent a portion 
 of FiUmore county interested in this subject 
 more than any other, I should do myself and 
 my constituents injustice, did I not express 
 my views upon it. Fillmore county, I trust, 
 will always be one and indivisible. She is 
 large, but none too large. I have not the least 
 fear, that with, or without the restriction, you 
 could muster a respectable minority in that 
 county to favor a division. Hence my oppo- 
 sition to this amendment is not based upon 
 any such fear. But I see quite a feeling 
 amongst us, who represent different sections 
 of the country, and an animated discussion 
 has grown up about the mode of settling the 
 matter. If this subject is so exciting to us, 
 what will be the feeling when we carry home 
 the matter to our constituents ? Now shall 
 we apply a rule to-day, which is to apply to 
 all ages to come ? " Or shall we act for the 
 present and let the future act for itself as cir- 
 cumstances may demand ? I am decidedly 
 in favor of voting down everything except the 
 substitute which we have adopted. Wise 
 men will not all have left the Territory when 
 we go home; occasionally, a true man wiU 
 come here and occupy a seat as a legislator. 
 The gentleman from Winona and myself, hon- 
 est men, may perchance, creep in by accident, 
 and do our constituents and ourselves justice. 
 I do not beUeve in total depravity, or that this 
 is the only possible chance when justice can 
 be done to Minnesota. I hope there will be 
 men who will represent the interests of Min- 
 nesota, when I am gone, as truly as I would. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH demanded the yeas and 
 nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being taken, it was decided in the 
 negative ; yeas sixteen, nays twenty-five ; as 
 follows : 
 
 Yeas. — Messrs. Anderson, Baldwin, Bartholo- 
 mew, Coggswell, Eschlic, Galbraith, Harding Han- 
 son, Kemp, McCann, McKune, Messer, Mills, 
 Smith, Watson, Wilson.— 16. 
 
 ^<iy«.— Messrs. Aldrich, Ayer, Billings, Butler, 
 Colbum, Coombs, Duley, Folsom, Gerrish, Hay- 
 den, Hudson, Lyle, Mantor, McClure, North, 
 
 Phelps, Perkins, Putnam, Peckham, Russell, Stan- 
 nard, Secombe, Thompson, Vaughn, Sheldon. — 25. 
 
 So the amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. Mr. President, I oflfer 
 the following as an additional section : 
 
 Sec. — . No county shall hereafter be created 
 or organized in this State of less territory than 
 four hundred square miles. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Mr. President, I 
 now desire to offer the amendment which I 
 offered in committee of the Whole, as a sub- 
 stitute for that additional section. 
 
 This proposition was read as before printed. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. Mr. President, I do not 
 propose to discuss this matter at all ; I would 
 like, for my part, to have something like what 
 I have offered, in the Constitution; and I 
 would like to vote upon that simple proposi- 
 tion. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. Mr. President, I move 
 the previous question. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I was going to suggest 
 that the sentiments of the proposition offered 
 by the gentleman from Steele coimty, had 
 better go into the Bill of Rights. 
 
 The main question was ordered, to-wit : 
 the adoption of Mr. Coggswell' s substitute ; 
 and it was rejected. 
 
 The question recurring on Mr. Aldrich' s 
 amendment, it was also rejected. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. Mr. President, I have 
 one more amendment — another section, as 
 follows : 
 
 Sec. — . No county seat, after having been loca- 
 ted by the people thereof, shall be removed or 
 changed oftener than once in ten years, and then 
 by a vote of the people only. 
 
 The section was rejected. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. Mr. President, I now 
 move that the rules be so far suspended, as to 
 allow this article, as amended, to be referred 
 to the committee on Phraseology. 
 
 Mr. THOMPSON. I move to amend that 
 motion, so as to allow the article to be order- 
 ed to engrossment, and to be now read the 
 third time and passed. I thmk we are now 
 through with the amendments. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. Mr. President, I would 
 like to inquire of the Chairman of the com- 
 mittee on Arrangement and Phraseology, as 
 to the progress of their investigations. Sev- 
 eral reports have been referred to them. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. It strikes me, that, ac- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, Arcrsr 4. 
 
 281 
 
 cording to our rules, this reference is proposed 
 to be made entirely too soon. 
 
 Mr. COLBUKN. The motion is to suspend 
 the rules. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. In regard to the gentle- 
 man's question, I can not see how we can 
 make the arrangement until we shall get all 
 the reports. Two of the articles which have 
 been referred to our committee have been re- 
 ported back, and they are now in the hands 
 of the committee on Enrolment. 
 
 Mr. Thompson's amendment of the motion 
 was agreed to, and then the motion, as amen- 
 ded, was agreed to. 
 
 And accordingly, the article was ordered 
 to be engrossed and read the third time ; and 
 it was read the third time and passed. 
 
 The Convention then adjourned. 
 
 TWENTIETH DAY. 
 
 Tuesday, August 4tii, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. m. 
 The jomnal of yesterday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 STATE OFFICEKS, OTHEE THAN EXECUTIVE. 
 
 On motion of Mr. CLEGHORN, the Con- 
 vention resolved into committee of the whole 
 — Mr. Cleghobn in the Chair, and took up 
 the consideration of the report (No. twelve), 
 embracing an article from the committee on 
 State Officers, other than Executive. 
 (For report see proceedings of July 31st.) 
 
 The report was read by sections for amend- 
 ment. 
 
 The first and second sections were passed 
 without amendment. 
 
 " Sec. 3. Whenever a vacancy shall occur in 
 any of the State ofiBces, the Governor shall fill the 
 same by appointment, until the next election of 
 Representatives, by and with the advise and con- 
 sent of the Senate, if in session." 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I would suggest the 
 propriety of striking out the words " imtil 
 " the next election of Representatives," and 
 inserting some provision for their filling the 
 vacancy during the balance of the term, and 
 until the next election to said offices. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. This section is pretty 
 much the same as we find in other Constitu- 
 tions, referring to the same subject. It seems 
 to me that it is sufficientiy definite, and the 
 proposition of the gentieman fix»m Winona 
 36 
 
 does not cover the whole ground. His pro- 
 position does not determine whether or not 
 the persons appomted to fill vacancies shall 
 hold their offices for the full term. The idea 
 of the section is, that at the next annual elec- 
 tion the vacancies shall be filled for the unex- 
 pired term. If that is so then the section is 
 all right as it stands, and I would desire no 
 amendment. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I think, taken in connec- 
 tion with the first section, this section con- 
 veys that idea. The first section provides 
 that there shall be elected at each general 
 biennial election, certain officers ; and this 
 third section conveys the idea that when a 
 vacancy shall occur the first year there shall 
 be an election to fill such vacancy at the next 
 annual election for representatives, instead of 
 waiting until the next biennial election comes 
 round. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I do not understand 
 the purport of the section exactiy as the gen- 
 tleman from Hennepin does. Suppose an 
 election takes place this fall for the State of- 
 ficers holding their office for two years fit)m 
 January. In February one of the State of- 
 ficers might be removed, and the Governor 
 would appoint some one to fill his place. Ac 
 cording to the section he would fill that office 
 only until the next election of Representatives, 
 which would be a year from this fall, and not 
 until the January following. I think it should 
 provide that he should hold his office until 
 the next election for said offices. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. The id«» of tiie gentle- 
 man fi^)m Winona is that the vacancy wiU be 
 filled only till the people assemble again for 
 an election. Suppose that in March of the 
 first year there should be a vacancy created. 
 The Governor would then fill the vacancy 
 until the fall election. There would be no 
 regular election for State officers until the year 
 after. Now this section provides that the 
 (jovemor shall fill the vacancy imtil the people 
 hold theu" next election, and when they do so, 
 that they shall have the privflege of selecting 
 a man to fill the vacancy imtil the next r^u- 
 lar election of State officers. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. It is impUed here, 
 that there shall be an election to fill a vacancy 
 at the next annual election, after the occur- 
 rence of the vacancy. But then, how long 
 shall the person so elected hold the office? 
 
282 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 Shall it be until the nex biennial election, or 
 shall he hold for the full term of two years ? 
 
 No amendment was offered and the section 
 was passed over. 
 
 " Sec. 4. The Secretary of State, State Trea- 
 surer and Auditer shall constitute a board of State 
 Canvassers, to determine the result of all elections 
 for Governor and State oflScers, and such other of- 
 ficers as may be referred to them." 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. That section, as it 
 now stands, provides that the same person 
 who may be re-elected — the Secretary of State, 
 State Treasurer, and Auditor— shall canvass 
 the returns of their own election — for they 
 may be re-elected a second time, and third 
 time. To say the least of the propriety of 
 the matter, they are too much interested to 
 canvass the returns of their own election, 
 though I do not exactly see how we shall 
 better it. Gentlemen of the Convention who 
 made this report, have probably considered 
 this matter and I would like to hear from 
 them. It has been a rule in many States 
 that persons eligible to re-election should not 
 be canvassers of the election. If these of- 
 ficers were to canvass votes cast for them- 
 selves in a close contest, it would at least 
 subject them to suspicion of wrong. This 
 board of Canvassers is entirely a new thing 
 with me. To say the least about it, men's 
 interests lead them a good wayS; and though 
 they may be honest they will be subjected to 
 suspicion under such circumstances. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move to strike out 
 section four. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I hope that sections five 
 and six will be read before the question is 
 taken upon striking out section four. 
 
 Sections five and six were read as follows: 
 
 " Sbo. 5. In case two or more persons have an 
 equal and highest number of votes, for any oflBce, 
 as canvassed by the Board of State Canvassers, the 
 Legislature in joint Convention, shall choose one 
 of said persons to fill such oflSce. 
 
 "Sbc. 6. When the determination of the Board 
 of State Canvassers is contested, the Legislature, 
 in joint Convention, shall decide which person is 
 elected." 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I withdraw my mo- 
 tion, and move to strike out sections four, five 
 and six. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I hope the motion will not 
 prevail, unless the gentleman can indicate 
 some suflBcient reason for it. I do not sup- 
 
 pose he makes the motion without reasons, 
 and I should like to hear what they are. A 
 Board of Canvassers is here established, and 
 an appeal provided for from their decision. 
 It appears to me that to let this board canvas 
 the votes in the first instance and determine 
 the result, is proper; and that section six 
 provides a suflBcient guarantee against any 
 fraud they might be inclined to perpetrate. 
 I do not see why the matter is not in as good 
 shape as it can be. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. Before I vote to strike out 
 these sections, I want some better way point- 
 ed out to accomplish the end they have in 
 view. In Michigan, where I have lived, the 
 returns are made to these ofiicers, and I un- 
 derstand that those returns are always public 
 property, and can be inspected by any one. 
 Sections five and six provide that any per- 
 sons, who think that wrong or fraud has been 
 committed by these officers, may appeal from 
 their decision. I certainly can see no objec- 
 tion to these provisions. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. We have here in this 
 Territory the returns of election made to the 
 Secretary of the Territory, He is directly 
 interested, and I would like to see any gen- 
 tleman inspect the returns in Ms office. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. The idea of the com- 
 mittee was that they could not constitute a 
 Board of State Canvassers, without having 
 them oflBcers of the State, although they 
 might set in judgment upon themselves, they 
 have the returns for all other officers referred 
 to them. We did not propose to go outside 
 of the State organization and appoint persons 
 specially for that purpose, and that only. I 
 have not yet come to the conclusion that I 
 should be warranted in prejudging that those 
 oflBcers would not do their duty. I think we 
 are faUing upon very perilous times, when as 
 an objection to everything, we must predicate 
 our arguments upon 'the almost positive 
 knowledge that persons to whom wo entrust 
 State matters, will prove recreant to duty. 
 
 This Board of State Canvassers would not 
 canvass the returns of their own election un- 
 der the Constitution, because, as I have al- 
 ways understood, the Convention will make a 
 special provision for the return and canvass of 
 those votes. If this Board of State Canvass- 
 ers will prove honest and true, I could have 
 no objection to their sitting and canvassing 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 283 
 
 he returns of the next election, even if they 
 are candidates ; and if they are not true and 
 honest, I trust we shall not re-elect them, and 
 in that case they would not sit upon their own 
 case. But suppose they should ; if there 
 were no two persons having an equal and the 
 highest number of votes, there could be no 
 doubt as to who was elected. It is possible 
 to make a false report of the returns when 
 there is not a clear majority for any one per- 
 son ; and if there is not a clear majority, then 
 the Legislature can, under these sections, re- 
 view the matter. If there is any suspicion 
 that the Board of State Canvassers have not 
 done justice, section six gives the right to the 
 Legislature to contest that canvass. If a bet- 
 ter system can be devised than the one which 
 your committee have reported, the committee 
 would gladly vote for it. 
 
 Mr. COGGS WELL. I have had but a very 
 few moments to consider this report ; but the 
 very moment I read sections four, five and 
 six, it struck me, in the first place, that they 
 savored strongly of legislation, to start with. 
 In the next place, it struck me forcibly that 
 section four was upon the principle of " vote 
 " yourself a farm" — or, " vote yourself into 
 " office." 
 
 In regard to sections five and six — and es- 
 pecially six — it seems to me that the Legisla- 
 tiu"e is not the proper tribunal to try cases of 
 contested elections of State oflBcers. So fer 
 as then" own individual members are con- 
 cerned, I have no doubt that they are the pro- 
 per tribunal to decide their own contested 
 election cases. We have already said, in that 
 part and portion of the Constitution which we 
 have already passed upon, that they shall be 
 judges of the qualifications and retvuns of 
 their own members. But when you come to 
 say that the Legislature shall sit in judgment 
 upon the rights of certain individuals to be 
 Governor, Secretary ai State, Auditor, or any 
 office of that kind, it seems to me it is estab- 
 lishing a judicial tribunal which is imcommon. 
 I have not examined other Constitutions upon 
 that subject, but I know that a great many 
 of our Western Constitutions are entirely si- 
 lent upon that subject, and especially the Con- 
 stitution of Wisconsin — which we aU say is 
 about as good as we can find in any Western 
 State. 
 
 My judgment would be to leave this matter 
 
 entirely to the wisdom of the Legislature, 
 and if they see fit to establish a board of can- 
 vassers, composed of these individuals, let 
 them do so. If they can devise a better 
 plan, and can constitute a board of canvas- 
 sers composed of men who have no personal 
 interest in the result of the election, it would 
 be better, to say the least of it. 
 
 The argument that sections of this kind 
 are to be foimd in some other Constitutions, 
 is not a very weighty one, because if that is 
 to be considered as a w'eighty argument, my 
 recollection is that we can find many Consti- 
 tutions, and equal in number, in which noth- 
 ing is said about this matter. 
 
 As I said in the first place, I have not 
 investigated this matter thoroughly, but my 
 impression is that we had better leave this 
 matter entirely to the wisdom of the Leg- 
 islatvire. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I am not at all op- 
 posed to the motion of the gentleman firom 
 Steele coimty, and I think it might be safely 
 left to the Legislature to establish a board of 
 canvassers. But I will offer the following 
 amendment to section four. Strike out 
 " Auditor " in the first line, and insert " Chief 
 Justice of the Supreme Court." The Judge 
 of the Supreme Court can never sit upon 
 the return of his own election — for I take 
 it, that the oldest judge in commission will 
 always be the Chief Justice — will always be 
 in office, and consequently can never sit upon 
 his own election returns. There will then be 
 at least one conservative element in the board 
 — the presumption is, the most conservative 
 dement in the government — a man whose 
 whole reputation depends upon acting fairly 
 in the matter. It would be eminently proper 
 to put such a trust into the hands of the Chief 
 Justice. He could never sit upon his own 
 election, though he might upon that of his 
 colleagues. 
 
 Mr. BALCOilBE. Two systems have 
 prevailed in other States in reference to this 
 matter. One has been to make the returns 
 to the speaker of the House of Representa- 
 tives, or the presiding officer of the Senate. 
 The other has been the course which has 
 been recommended by the committee in this 
 report — that a certain number of State officers 
 should constitute a board of State canvassers, 
 from whose decision an appeal could be taken 
 
284 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 to the Legislative Assembly. Of the two, I 
 prefer the system recommended by the com- 
 mittee. If that board should so far prove 
 recreant to their duty as to outstrip the 
 bounds of right and justice, any one com- 
 plaining of their decision, can appeal to a 
 higher tribunal. 
 
 I like, also, the amendment proposed by 
 the delegate from Scott county (Mr. Gal- 
 BBAirn). I think it very proper indeed that 
 the Chief Justice should be made a member of 
 that board. I am opposed to striking out the 
 three sections, and I hope it vnll not be done. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. As one of the committee 
 who made this report, if no other member 
 objects, I wiU accept the amendment of the 
 gentleman from Scott county. 
 
 The amendment of Mr. Galbbaith was 
 then agi'eed to. 
 
 The motion to strike out the three sections 
 was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I move now to amend 
 section three, by inserting after the words 
 " Representative " the words — 
 
 — " And until an officer to fill such vacancy shall 
 be elected and qualified according to law." 
 
 .--As the section now stands, it suspends the 
 appointment of the Governor at the time of 
 the election of Representatives. If a person 
 elected to fill the vacancy, should fail to 
 qualify, there might be a contest as to who 
 should fill the office, or whether there- was 
 any one who could do so. My amendment is 
 designed to obviate that difficulty. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. It seems to me that there 
 is another objection to section three. If we 
 examine it, we shall find that it does not give 
 the power of appointment to the Governor, 
 except during the session of the Senate. It 
 was, no doubt, intended to give him the abso- 
 lute power of appointment at any time during 
 the year, but under the construction I place 
 upon it, he would not have the power of 
 appointment except by and with the advice 
 and consent of the Senate, which is in session 
 only fifty days. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. Your committee did not 
 give the section that construction. It was 
 designed that the Governor should not 
 appoint without the consent of the Sen- 
 ate, if the Senate were in session ; but if not 
 in session, he should have the power of 
 appointment until the next election of Rep- 
 
 resentatives. The amendment of the gentle, 
 man from Scott county was designed to 
 obviate the possibility of a vacancy, and no 
 one to fill it. The committee based this 
 section upon the supposition that there are as 
 many office seekers, as offices, and if a vacancy 
 should happen, some one would stand ready 
 to fill it. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I think it very clear that 
 the construction put upon this section by the 
 committee is correct. It says positively that 
 the Governor shall fill a vacancy by appoint- 
 ment, and the manner in which he shall fill it 
 is pointed out upon certain conditions. If the 
 Senate is in session, he shall do it with their 
 advice and consent, but he shall positively do 
 it at all events. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. The difficulty would 
 be remedied by striking out the words "if in 
 session." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. It seems to me that if 
 we strike out the words "if in session," we 
 make it absolutely necessary that the Senate 
 shall give their assent. It seems to me, that 
 as this restriction will apply but two months 
 of the year, we might as well strike it out 
 altogether, and give the Governor the right to 
 appoint absolutely. I move to amend by 
 striking out all after the word " Represen- 
 tatives," and insert, " to the Legislature." 
 That would show what Representatives we 
 mean. I offer it as an amendment to the 
 section. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. There is already an 
 amendment pending. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. Then I withdraw my 
 amendment until that is disposed of. 
 
 The question was then taken on Mr. Gal- 
 bbaith' s amendment, and it vras agreed to. 
 
 Mr. RUSSELL. I offer the foUowing sub- 
 stitute for the section as amended : 
 
 " Sec. 3. Whenever a vacancy shall occur in 
 any of the State offices,* the Governor shall fill 
 the same by appointment, until the successor of 
 such officer shall be elected and qualified." 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I hope the substitute will 
 not prevail, for the reason that it makes no 
 provision for the election of an officer to fill 
 a vacancy until tlie regular biennial election, 
 which in some cases might be nearly two 
 years after the vacancy occurred. 
 
 Mr. RUSSELL. I would leave that mat- 
 ter with the Legislature. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 285 
 
 Mr. HA YDEN. I do not think that should 
 be done. 
 The substitute was rejected. 
 
 " Sec. 5. In case two or more persons have an 
 equal and highest number of votes, for any office, 
 as canvassed by the board of State canvassers, the 
 Legislature in joint Convention, shall choose one 
 of said persons to fill such office." 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I rise simply to sug- 
 gest whether it would not be best to confer 
 that power on only one of the bodies, instead 
 of two in joint Convention. I can conceive 
 of instances where the two Houses could 
 never be brought together. I know such a 
 provision is common in many of om* Consti- 
 tutions. But in these revolutionary times 
 when a certain party is disposed to be gov- 
 erned by the border ruifian spirit, and to 
 overstep all parliamentary rules, usages and 
 customs, for the purpose of accompUshing 
 political ends, the question arises whether it 
 would not be best to confer that power upon 
 one House instead of two? Suppose such 
 an election takes place while a democrat is 
 Governor, and the Senate is democratic, but 
 the House Republican by a majority sufficient 
 to overcome, in joint Convention, the demo- 
 cratic majority in the Senate. The Senate 
 might refuse to go into joint Convention with 
 the House, being well enough satisfied with 
 the Governor already in office. That Gover- 
 nor would continue to hold his office vmtil his 
 successor was qualified. Such a circumstance 
 might happen — it is very likely to happen. 
 The question, then, in mymind, is, whether 
 it would not be well to provide against such 
 an occurrence by referring the election in 
 such closely contested cases, wholly to the 
 House of Representatives. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I think the su^estion of the 
 gentleman from "Winona is a good one, and I 
 move to amend section five by striking out 
 the words " Legislative in joint Convention 
 *' assembled," and insert " House of Repre- 
 " sentatives." 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I am inclined to the opin- 
 ion that the amendment ought to be adopted. 
 The contmgency indicated might not, to be 
 sure, occur, but still it might. In these revo- 
 lutionary times, as the gentleman fi-om Wi- 
 nona says, such transactions as he has spo- 
 ken of, are very likely to occur. It does not 
 seem to me that we need invoke the aid of 
 
 ihe Senate to decide such a question of Elec- 
 tion. Referring it to the popular branch of 
 the Legislature is the next thing to referring 
 it back to the people. I hope the amendment 
 will prevail. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 "Sec. 6. When the determination of the 
 board of State Canvassers is contested, the Legis- 
 lature, in joint Convention, shall decide which 
 person is elected." 
 
 Mr. KING. I move to amend section six, 
 by striking out the words "Legislature in 
 "joint Convention," and insert "House of 
 " Representatives." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I move that the com- 
 mittee rise and report the report to the Con- 
 vention with a recommendation that the 
 amendments be concurred in. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the com- 
 mittee rose and reported accordingly. 
 
 The question was upon concurring in the 
 amendments of the committee of the Whole. 
 
 "First Amendment. — After the word "repre- 
 sentative," in section three, insert the words "and 
 until an officer to fill such vacancy shall be elected 
 and qualified according to law." 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I now offer the fol- 
 lowing substitute for the whole of section 
 three as amended : 
 
 " Sec. 3. Vacancies in any of the State offices 
 aforesaid, shall be filled by appointment of the 
 Governor — to continue till the successor shall be 
 elected and qualified." 
 
 I would suggest that though the section as 
 it is amended is short, yet the language is 
 not plain. It is scarcely possible to use lan- 
 guage sufficiently specific without going into 
 the details of legislation. I know that some 
 Constitutions have provisions in regard to fill- 
 ing the vacancies in offices, and I know too, 
 that vacancies sometimes occur which can- 
 not be filled. Men upon this floor know that 
 there are now some difficulties in filling vacan- 
 cies in the office of Register of Deeds. The 
 amendment provides that the Governor shall 
 in all cases fill vacancies whether the Legisla- 
 ture is in session or not. It is to be presumed 
 that the Legislature will specify the details as 
 to the election of officers to fill vacancies, but 
 the government, in the mean time, has, by 
 my amendment, the power to fill all vacancies 
 until an election is had. 
 
286 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. As the gentleman from 
 Scott county has remarked, it requires some 
 length of wording, to provide fully for this 
 matter. I had been attempting to prepare 
 a section, which, for the information of the 
 Convention I will read. It is as follows : 
 
 " Whenever a vacancy shall occur in any of the 
 State offices, the Governor, by and with the con- 
 sent of the Senate, shall appoint some person to 
 fall said vacancy; and the person so appointed 
 shall hold the said office until the next general 
 election and until his successor shall have been 
 elected and qualified; and in case the said vacancy 
 shall occur during the first year of the term of 
 said officer, then at the next general election an 
 election shall be held to fill the balance of the said 
 term." 
 
 In regard to the remarks which have been 
 made about the Senate not being in session 
 to consent to the appointments of the Gover- 
 nor, I will say that I think the practice has 
 been, where similar power has been given to 
 the Governor with the consent of the Senate, 
 that the Governor appoints in the first in- 
 stance, and submits his appointment to the 
 Senate upon their first meeting. Such has 
 been the practice in this Territory where the 
 Governor had the power of appointment sub- 
 ject to the consent of the Council. He ap- 
 points, in the first instance, and submits his 
 appointments to the Council upon their first 
 meeting thereafter. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. My substitute is a 
 mere assertion of power. The gentleman's 
 amendment is more definite. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I would like to ask my 
 friend upon my left, ( Mr. Secombe, ) if, in 
 case the Governor appoints, the vacancy can 
 be filled by the appointee until the Senate as- 
 sembles? Can he fill the oflSce until that 
 time, though the Senate, upon its assembling, 
 may reject his nomination ? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The appointment of the 
 gentleman takes place immediately, subject to 
 the revision of the Senate when they meet. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. If that is the idea, I am 
 not so much opposed "to the amendment. 
 
 In regard to the amendment offered by the 
 gentleman from Scott county, I should wish 
 to have it specify that if a vacancy should oc- 
 cur during the first year of the term, that the 
 people shall have the power to elect to fill the 
 vacancy at the first general election. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I would suggest to the 
 
 gentleman, that cases might arise, when per- 
 haps it would be well for the Legislature to 
 order a special election to fill certain vacan- 
 cies. My substitute gives the Legislature full 
 power, to provide how and when an election 
 should be held. I have no hesitancy, how- 
 ever, in allowing the words " until the next 
 annual election " to be inserted ; but I think 
 the fewer words we use the better, as a gen- 
 eral thing, provided they are sufiicient to 
 enunciate the power clearly. The Legisla- 
 ture then can provide all the details. 
 
 The question was then taken on the substi- 
 tute offered by Mr. Galhraith, and it was 
 adopted. 
 
 Second amendment recommended by the 
 committee : 
 
 Fec. 4, line one, strike out the word " Auditor " 
 and insert " Chief Justice of the Supreme Court." 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I think an amendment 
 should be made to that section, in addition to 
 that recommended by the committee. There 
 should be a provision specifying how many of 
 that board should constitute a quorum. 
 
 Mr. PRESIDENT. The Chair would sug- 
 gest that the universal rule is, that a majority 
 shall constitute a quorum and shall govern. 
 
 The amendment of the committee was con- 
 curred in. 
 
 " Third Amendment. — Sec. 5, strike out the 
 words ' Legislature in Joint Convention,' and in- 
 sert ' House of Kepresentatives.' " 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 
 "Fourth Amendment. — Sec. 6, strike out the 
 words ' Legislature in Joint Convention ' and in- 
 sert ' House of Kepresentatives.' " 
 
 The amendment was concun'ed in. 
 
 Mr. THOMPSON. I move that the rules 
 be so far suspended as to allow this report to 
 be read a third time and passed now. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I hope that motion will 
 not prevail. I think we had better pursue the 
 same course with this report that we have 
 with others. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 The report was then ordered to be engross- 
 ed for a third reading. 
 
 THE ORGANIZATION OF THE CONVENTION. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. A few days since, the 
 gentleman from Goodhue county, (Mr. Mc- 
 Clure, ) and the gentleman from Winona, 
 (Mr. Balcombe,) offered some resolutions 
 relating to matters connected with the organi- 
 tion of this Convention, &c. I move that 
 
iflNNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 287 
 
 those resolutions be taken from the table and 
 considered now. 
 
 The resolutions were taken from the table 
 and read to the Convention. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. As there was but little 
 business before the Convention this morning, 
 it was thought best by some gentlemen who 
 wished to speak to these resolutions, to take 
 them up now. But as there is considerable 
 business to be transacted by several of the 
 committees, I would move, in order that they 
 may have time to attend to their affairs this 
 morning, that the consideration of those reso- 
 lutions be postponed until half past two 
 o'clock this afternoon. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I move that the floor 
 be accorded to the gentleman from Goodhue 
 county, ( Mr. McCluke, ) at half past two 
 o'clock this afternoon. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. Galbbaith, 
 ( at ten o'clock and forty minutes, ) the Con- 
 vention adjoimied until half past two o'clock. 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention meet at half past two 
 o'clock. 
 
 ORGANIZATION OP THE CONVENTION. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. Mr. President, I wish to 
 occupy the time of the Convention, for a 
 short time, in speaking to the resolutions 
 which I offered some days since, and in order 
 to place the Convention in possession of the 
 facts contained therein, I will read them. They 
 are as follows : 
 
 "Whereas, There is official evidence from the 
 production of certificates of election, that there is 
 a majority of the legally elected members of the 
 Constitutional Convention, who claimed and have 
 been admitted to seats in this Convention ; and, 
 
 " Whebeas, The members now holding seats in 
 this Convention who produced prima facia evi- 
 dence by the production of regular certificates of 
 election as such delegates, represent a majority of 
 the legal voters of this Territory ; and, 
 
 " "Whereas, There are some bodies of men be- 
 ginning to assemble in a chamber of this Capitol, 
 who call themselves the Constitutional Convention, 
 which they have an undoubted right to do, on the 
 principle that if a man desires making a fool of 
 himself, there is no law against it — many of whom 
 have no certificates of election to the Convention ; 
 others who have certificates and who would be 
 admitted to seats in this Convention upon the pro- 
 duction of their certificates, who have not attended 
 
 the meetings of this Convention, from reasons best 
 known to themselves ; therefore, 
 
 "Resolved, That the men now occupying the 
 chamber at the other end of the Capitol are there, 
 in our opinion, for the purpose of defeating the 
 will of the people, and that their acts will not be 
 recognized by the electors of this Territory ; there- 
 fore, 
 
 " Mesolied, That while that body of men in the 
 Council Chamber are denouncing us to a Federal 
 President and threatening us with the power of 
 their masters that the above preamble and resolu- 
 tion, together with copies of the credentials and 
 evidence of the election of members of this Con- 
 vention be laid before the sovereign people of 
 Minnesota, to whom we appeal for the ratification 
 of our action as a Convention." 
 
 I wish, Mr. President, these resolutions 
 passed by this Convention, with such modi- 
 fications as this body may think proper to 
 make, in order that we may make that appeal 
 to the proper tribunal, which, in my judg- 
 ment, have the right to try the legality of the 
 acts we are here performing. The reason 
 which induced me to offer these resolutions 
 was, the offering and adoption of resolutions 
 in the other end of the Capitol, by those who 
 claim to call themselves a Constitutional 
 Convention, and who say that they will be 
 recognized by the general government as 
 such. My object, then, will be to draw a 
 contrast between the Republican party and 
 the Democratic party, and to show, as cir- 
 cumstances may require, the object of the 
 Democratic party to be just what it is charged 
 — to defeat the will of the people, to defeat 
 the Constitution formed by this Convention 
 and to prevent Minnesota from coming into 
 the Union as a State. Those resolutions are 
 as follows : 
 
 " Whereas, There is official evidence, from the 
 report of the committee on Credentials, that there 
 is a majority of the legally-elected members of the 
 Constitutional Convention who claim and are en- 
 titled to seats in this Convention ; an^, 
 
 "Whereas, The members ascertained to be 
 legally elected, from the official documents before 
 this Convention, represents more than sixteen 
 hundred majority of the popular vote of the Ter- 
 ritory; and, 
 
 "Whereas, There is now a body of men who 
 have taken possession of one of the halls of this 
 Capitol, and call themselves the Constitutional 
 Convention, without any legal authority or right, 
 although some of those connected with that as- 
 semblage may be entitled to seats in this Conven- 
 tion, but who have not seen proper, as yet, to pre- 
 sent their credentials, or to attend the meeting of 
 
288 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 this body, since the regular adjournment of the 
 Convention, on Monday, the 13th instant ; there- 
 fore, 
 
 " Sesolved, That the assemblage of persons now- 
 occupying the Representatives Hall of this Cap- 
 itol, styling themselves the "Constitutional Con- 
 vention," is without the authority of law or Par- 
 liamentary usage, and revolutionary in its char- 
 acter, and therefore, should not be recognized by 
 the electors of this Territory, nor by the officers 
 of the General or Territorial Government." 
 
 Instead of appealing to the people for the 
 rectitude of their acts, they now make an ap- 
 peal to the President of the United States, 
 and the heads of the departments. 
 
 "Resolved, That a copy of the above preamble 
 and resolution, together with a copy of the report 
 of the committee on Credentials, be forwarded to 
 the President of the United States, each of the 
 heads of the departments of the General Govern- 
 ment, each of the members of the Senate and 
 House of Representatives of the United States, 
 and to the Governor, Secretary, Marshal, Librari- 
 an, Auditor and Treasurer of the Territory of Min- 
 nesota." 
 
 Now I remark that these resolutions were 
 offered in the other end of the Capitol, by a 
 government officer — by a man who has re- 
 cently been appointed a Judge of the Su- 
 preme Court of the Territory of Minnesota, 
 and the fact of its being offered by him and 
 advocated by him, in my judgment indicates 
 what course the administration are ready to 
 pursue, what course they will pursue, and 
 what decision they will make, so far as that 
 man is concerned, in reference to matters of 
 the most vital importance to the people of 
 this Territory. In the remarks which he 
 made in advocacy of those resolutions, let us 
 examine the rule of decision wliich he laid 
 down, by which matters of the most vital 
 importance are to be adjudicated upon. He 
 has asserted and laid it dowm as the rule in 
 regard to the St. Anthony delegates, that the 
 fact that the- Governor of tWs Territory— a 
 government officer, one who has no sympa- 
 thies with nor relation to the people of this 
 Territory — by an arbitrary official act, re- 
 moved the Register of Deeds for giving certi- 
 ficates of election to members of this Consti- 
 tutional Convention, decides the right to scats 
 in this Convention of those upon whom he 
 has adjudicated, without having those parties 
 before him at all— taking the responsibility 
 and assuming the position that bodies of this 
 character liave no right to judge of the quali- 
 
 fications and right of seats, of its members — 
 an assumption in violation of every principle 
 of right, a violation of every legislative rule 
 that can be found upon record anywhere, 
 either inmonarchial governments or any other. 
 Now let us see if I am correct in charging 
 upon that officer the decision I have stated. 
 He says referring to these St. Anthony dele- 
 gates — 
 
 " How does it happen that these men assume to 
 come in and deliberate in the Councils of the Con- 
 stitutional Convention of Minnesota ? They have 
 not been sent here by the only principal authorized 
 to dispute them — the people. They have been dis- 
 carded at home, and why, then do they assume to 
 sit there ? It has been through the trickery and 
 chicanery of certain officials. It will be said that 
 they have prima facia the right to take that posi- 
 tion, because forsooth, they have received creden- 
 tials from the officer whose duty it is to certify to 
 the members having the greatest number of votes. 
 I answer, sir, by presenting these facts. In the 
 first place it was so palpably, so manifestly, wrong, 
 that the very members of the opposition would 
 delight in the opportunity — by a contest to relieve 
 themselves of the odium of the position they oc- 
 cupy and have placed their party in, by expelling 
 those members from that House." 
 
 And then he alleges that there is an answer 
 which is unanswerable to the claim that those 
 delegates had a right to take seats in this 
 Constitutional Convention. He says : 
 
 "And, sir, there exists a perfect answer to the 
 prima facia character of right claimed for these 
 credentials, which leaves no apology for the disre- 
 putable position that factious body have placed 
 themselves in by admitting them to a seat among 
 them. It is this : The people of that District 
 were so outraged when it was made public that 
 their wishes as expressed through the ballot-box, 
 had been attempted to be defeated by an official of 
 their own creation, that they insisted such a man 
 should be removed from office. Charges were pre- 
 ferred against him for misconduct in office, before 
 the proper tribunal ; this man received a fair and 
 impartial hearing. He made his defence there by 
 his attorney, and it was finally adjudged against 
 him, that he had been guilty of official misconduct ; 
 that ho had violated the sworn duties of an officer, 
 and had attempted to subvert the will of the peo- 
 ple. This judgment, I say, removes from these 
 papers styling themselves credentials upon their 
 face, all authority which they might otherwise carry 
 with them." 
 
 Such is the rule of decision laid down by 
 the recent appointee to the Supreme Court of 
 Minnesota. Under that decision all that 
 would have been necessary for them to do in 
 order to entitle thom to seats in this Conven- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 289 
 
 tion, would have been to come into this body, 
 upon the day of its organization, with the 
 judgment which the Governor pronounced 
 against the Register, Ames, removing him 
 from office, produce it, and this Convention 
 would have been bound to deprive the sitting 
 members from their seats although they had 
 never had a trial, and their claims never passed 
 upon by the proper tribunal. 
 
 But I do not wish to dwell upon that point, 
 but proceed to call the attention of the Con- 
 vention to another very important feature 
 which appears in the speech which he made 
 upon that occasion. He takes the groimd 
 that it is the intention of the Republicans to 
 pass a Constitution right over the heads of 
 the people. Then, sir, I take it for granted, 
 from the position which he assumes here, that 
 he is opposed to a Republican Constitution. 
 He does not say that he is opposed to the 
 Republicans making a Constitution, but he 
 ^;ays that Jthe Republicans wished to carry 
 this matter, and to form a Republican Consti- 
 tution against the will of the people. What 
 people ? But I do not wish to misrepresent 
 his position, and I will read what he says : 
 
 "Mr. President, let me ask why all this has been 
 done ; these men have found, on coming here, that 
 in order to make out their majority, it was neces- 
 sary to do these things. They have been instruct- 
 ed from abroad that Minnesota must have a Re- 
 publican Consiitution, and in obedience to the will 
 of their masters, they have, finding it impossible 
 to do itregularly, and having been rebuked through 
 the ballot-box, they have created the material and 
 machinery to carry it over the people." 
 
 What a trying scene, to see this body as. 
 semblcd here, and endeavoring to frame a 
 Republican Constitution, and to carry it right 
 over the heads of the people ! 
 
 My object, however, so far as that govem- 
 tnent officer is concerned, was not materially 
 10 take issue with him upon any particular 
 point, but I quote him to show what his rule 
 of decision is to be. Ex-Governor Gorman, 
 and the party to which he belongs, have 
 placed this man and the Ex-Governor upon 
 the stand in order to testify to the world 
 tliat the Democratic members who belong to 
 the Constitutional Convention were in the 
 right at the time they left this Hall, and at 
 the time they came back, and went away 
 again. Now I am sorry that I may have to 
 allude to some things which I would gladly 
 37 
 
 avoid. There are two or three ways by 
 which you may destroy the evidence of a wit- 
 ness. One is by showing that he contradicts 
 himself. He has laid down the rule by 
 which our acts as a Constitutional Convenr 
 tion are to be judged, and he has stated that 
 we are to be judged by our acts. Now, I 
 wish to apply the same rule to him and his 
 party which he wishes to apply to us. Now, 
 if upon the application of that rule, his 
 works, and the works of the party with which 
 he acts, gives the lie to their profession, wo 
 conclude that when they make a statement, 
 they state what is palpably untrue. Now, I 
 propose, in the next place, to show by the ev- 
 idence of a member of that Convention, by 
 the name of Sibley, that what ex-Governor 
 GoBMAN stated in regard to the objects which 
 they had in view in coming into this Hall, is 
 palpably false. Then I expect to show by 
 the Pioneer & Democrat, that ex-Govemor 
 GoBJiAN is unworthy of credit in any commu- 
 nity, in any Court of Justice, or before any 
 body of men. Now if I succeed in that 
 point, then, so &r as the testimony which has 
 been sent out goes, it seems to me that it will 
 have but httle weight with the people. Let 
 us see, then, what he says, when speaking 
 upon this resolution of Mr. Flandbeau's : 
 
 " Well, sir, what further did we do ? We came 
 into the Hall of the House of Representatives, on 
 the 13th of July at 12 o'clock M. There was no 
 particular order that we should meet in that room 
 or that we should meet in this ; but a large ma- 
 jority of the delegates elected by the people did 
 meet in that Hall, After the Democratic delegates 
 come into the Hall, what did they propose to do ? " 
 
 Then he goes on to show what they decided 
 on in caucus, what was proposed to be done, 
 and what they came into the Hall to do. 
 Now, when they came into this Hall, they did 
 not do, nor attempt to do, what they had de- 
 cided to do. Then, jud^g them by their 
 acts, we must come to the conclusion that the" 
 statement which he makes here is palpably 
 false. He goes on to say : 
 
 " I intend to tell the country what their caucus 
 said they should do. I intend to tell the country 
 everything that was done in caucus by the Demo- 
 cratic party which is sitting here to-day. 
 
 " In reading the Statutes of the Territory, wc 
 found that the returns of elections should be made 
 to the Secretary of the Ten-itory, and that the Sec- 
 retary of the Territory was, perhaps, the only pro- 
 per custodian of those returns. My reading of the 
 
290 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 Statutes expressly requires that at a given time 
 these returns shall be made to that ofiBcer — of 
 course this applies to the election of Councillors 
 and Delegates to the Legislature, and o£ Delegate 
 to Congress. That oflBcer has now the returns of 
 the election of all the members of this Conyention ; 
 he had them mostly then." 
 
 Now, here he admits that he did not even 
 have at the time they came into this Hall on 
 13th of July all the returns of the Registers 
 of Deeds of the election of delegates to this 
 Convention. 
 
 " Well, sir, what did our caucus determine to 
 do ? We passed a vote that the Secretary of the 
 Territory should go into the Hall of the House of 
 Representatives at the proper hour, 
 
 — That proper hour he admits to be 12 
 o'clock M. — 
 
 and call the Convention to order — not call any 
 member to the chair, nor by any trick try to take 
 the advantage of the adversary, but proceed and 
 call the Council Districts in the order in which they 
 stand. Every man before me will bear me out in 
 saying that this was the course which the party I 
 am now addressing expected to pursue when we 
 came into that Hall. 
 
 "When we had called the Convention to order, 
 and the Council Districts had been called, it was 
 supposed that in the ordinary course of parliamen- 
 tary proceedings, he would, like the clerk of the 
 House of Representatives in Congress, have a list 
 of members made out. And why should lie have 
 a list? Because the returns were made to him." 
 
 He admitted a little while ago, that the 
 returns were not all made to him. 
 
 " And who elSe should have the list? Certainly 
 not Mr. North, a delegate from Rice county. It 
 was perfectly proper and regular that* the Secre- 
 tary should have such a list. We therefore ex- 
 pected when we came into the Hall, without vio- 
 lence, without pistols in our pockets, without send- 
 ing for our neighbors to keep us from being 
 whipped by the Border Ruffians (laughter) ; that in 
 pursuance of the most usual and regular course of 
 proceeding, the Secretary would call the first 
 Council District and allow the members to come 
 forward and present their credentials, then the 
 second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, — yes, 
 sir, call the Seventh Council District, too — and I 
 shall have something to say of the rights of the 
 delegates from that District presently. We in- 
 tended to proceed thus with the Districts until 
 they had all been called, when, if a quorum ap- 
 peared, tho Convention would be ready to transact 
 business. 
 
 " Having proceeded to this point, the intention 
 expressed in our caucus, was, inasmuch as several 
 of our members had nof come in, knowing that in 
 consequence of this alarm which had been sounded 
 tbroagbout the Territory, calling on the Republi- 
 
 can Delegates to be here ; they were here, armed 
 cap-a-pie, and that having slept upon their arms 
 they were expecting some great development. If, 
 on calling the roll, it resulted as we expected, that 
 the Republicans had the majority, we intended to 
 appeal to their justice to adjourn, and not organ- 
 ize until our men should have had time to come in, 
 although we had reason to believe the appeal 
 would be like the appeal made to sinners a thou- 
 sand times, and Avith about the same eflFect." 
 
 Now I wish gentlemen to bear that last re- 
 mark in mind, so that they may see, when I 
 come to read the Pioneer and Democrat^ if 
 Ex-Governor Gorman has not probably had 
 more appeals in vain, and appeals to one of 
 the greatest sinners without effect, than almost 
 any man who has lived since the time of the 
 destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. (Laugh- 
 ter.) 
 
 "This was the course marked by the Democrats 
 in caucus to pursue, as forty-four of the men here 
 present will bear me witness. We had no arms, 
 no pistols, no bowie-knives, no border ruffian 
 revolver party to take possession of the Capitol at 
 midnight. We had no scenes in contemplation 
 such as have fiu-nished food for the Republican 
 party during the last eighteen months. Nothing 
 of the kind, we were resolved, should emanate 
 from us, but the course we proposed to pursue 
 was precisely what would have been pursued by 
 any deliberative parliamentary body in the coun- 
 try. Every man before me knows this was our 
 intention. If we could secure an adjournment 
 until our men could come in, of course we should 
 have been glad to do so." 
 
 Now Sir, judging them by their acts and 
 not by a word of the Ex-Governor, how does 
 the matter stand ? Did they attempt to do a 
 single thing which he said they had deter- 
 ihined in caucus to do, and for which they 
 came here to do, vrith the single exception of 
 calling the Convention to order? Did they 
 attempt to ask for credentials? Did they 
 then undertake to call the Districts ? Did they 
 attempt a temporary organization at all? 
 They did not. Not the first step was taken 
 toward it. Then we say, when the declara- 
 tion is made by him that they came here for 
 that purpose and did not attempt to consum- 
 mate it, but did do something else, we have 
 the right to say that tho statement is know- 
 ingly false, and is made for public capital. 
 By their words we* are to judge them : 
 
 " This is all we asked here. Wo only asked 
 that when we came into that Hall, the roll should 
 be called ; those members whose seats were con- 
 tested should stand aside until we had ascertained 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Ttjesday, August 4. 
 
 291 
 
 whether a quorum was present, and then that 
 their cases should be determined according to the 
 law and facts." 
 
 Now, that is all any man would have asked 
 — all that would have been proposed by tliis 
 Convention had they come in and made ob- 
 jection to members whose seats they proposed 
 to contest. How would the matter have stood 
 then ? They had the minority, and were not 
 prepared to go into an organization, and they 
 intended to ask for an adjournment in order 
 to give time for their absent members to be 
 present. Now, how long did it take them to 
 organize after they left and had the matter in 
 their own hands, with all the bogus delegates 
 to procm-e? How long did it take them to 
 satisfy themselves that they had a sufficient 
 nimiber to organize ? I believe from about 
 Tuesday the 14th, until near two weeks from 
 that day. Did they intend to ask this Con- 
 vention to remain here all that time unorgan- 
 ized, for the purpose of permitting their mem- 
 bers to come in ? They would not dare tell 
 the people they did. Hence we come to the 
 conclusion that the assertion which has been 
 made time and again must be imtrue, and 
 that they xame in here for the purpose of 
 making a motion to adjourn, and leaving this 
 Hall, thereby supposing that they could pre- 
 vent the organization of this Convention. 
 This is all charged upon them. 
 
 " Well, sir, Mr. Chase, the Secretary of the 
 Territory, walked up to the chair first and called 
 the Convention to order; then Mr. North, precisely 
 in keeping with the position of that body of men 
 who had remaiaed in that hall from midnight un- 
 til day, and from day until 12 o'clock at noon, to 
 prevent the Border Rufiians from forestalling them 
 and performing any act by which they should get 
 the advantage, also came into the desk, and made 
 some motion, which he himself put to the Conven- 
 tion." 
 
 Now, sir, what are the facts in regard to 
 that matter ? They did come into this Hall, 
 and a large proportion of those who are now 
 members of this Convention were in their 
 seats. Did the Democratic members, when 
 they came in, take seats as men who came 
 for the purpose of organizing a Convention ? 
 No, sir ! They came rushing in as a body, and 
 the very first thing done by them was to 
 move to adjourn, and the next thing they did 
 was to leave the Hall. Now, was that 
 according to parliamentary usage? Who 
 ever heard of a parliamentary or legislative 
 
 assembly acting in that manner? How do 
 men usually assemble upon occasions of this 
 kind ? Why, in the morning as soon as the 
 doors are open, men begin to drop in one 
 after another, exchange salutations, and by the 
 time the hoiir arrives for organization, mem- 
 bers are in their seats. They are not out in 
 some secret caucus ; they are not devising 
 ways and means by which they can defeat an 
 organization. They come in like men and 
 take their seats promiscuously through the 
 house. How did these men come in ? In a 
 parliamentary manner? They admit that 
 they came in as a body. They say they had 
 a right to. Who disputes the right ? But 
 we say it was unparliamentary. No instance 
 of the kind can be found upon record. They 
 did make a motion to adjourn. They did it 
 while many, if not all, of their members were 
 standing. That was not exactly parliamen- 
 tary. I believe, the parliamentary usage is 
 to rise from a seat and address the Chair. 
 Did the mover upon that occasion arise and 
 address the Chair ? And were the members 
 sitting, when he did it ? Most imdoubtedly 
 not. 
 
 He went on, however, in his statement, 
 and read from Jefferson's Manual, to show 
 that a motion to adjourn is always in order, 
 and that no motion could properly be put 
 until that motion was decided. I have 
 always heard that when a person vmdertakes 
 to tell what is imtrue, he is very swce to leave 
 some point untold, and thereby exposes his 
 folly. 
 
 Now I will read from Jefferson's Manual, 
 page 39 : 
 
 "When the Speaker is seated in his Chair, every 
 member is to sit in his place." 
 
 Now, when Mr. Chase took the Chair, 
 according to all parliamentary usage, every 
 member should be sitting in his place. Where 
 were they ? Together in a body, and stand- 
 mg upon their feet. It was unparliamentary. 
 Again Jefferson's Manual, page forty-eight, 
 says: 
 
 " When a motion has been made, it is not to be 
 put to question or debate until it is seconded ; it is 
 then, and not till then, in possession of the House." 
 
 Now, I understand a motion is not before 
 a body at all for action, until it has been 
 seconded. Now, will this gentieman who 
 made the motion, and will the Chairman who 
 
292 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 was governed by sh'ict parliamentary usage, 
 dare to say that the motion to adjourn was 
 seconded? They would not dare to do it. 
 Then there was no motion before the House 
 aliill and he had no right to put it. If he 
 did, it was in violation of every parliamentary 
 usage. " It is then, and not till then, in pos- 
 session of the House." Until seconded it is 
 not before the Assembly, and it was abso- 
 lutely null and void.* 
 
 Now it is said that some men's memories 
 are short. It is astonishing that they, being 
 such strict parliamentarians, and intending to 
 rely strictly on such parliamentary usage, to 
 sustain them in the act they perpetrated, did 
 not think to get some man to swear that he 
 seconded the motion. They will in all proba- 
 bility plead in excijse of that, that they had 
 not time. But they have seen fit to rest 
 their case upon the broad foundation that 
 everything they did was strictly parliamen- 
 tary, and that the question was properly put 
 at the proper time, and properly carried. 
 
 I have now attempted to show that thek 
 acts, when they came in here, contradict the 
 assertion the Ex-Governor made. Now let 
 me introduce a piece of evidence from the 
 speech of Mr. Sibley. He says : 
 
 " When they went into that Convention, know- 
 ing that several Democratic Delegates were absent, 
 they desired to adjourn ; but if they had been 
 voted down, unjust as I should have considered 
 the conduct of the opposition, I for one should 
 have submitted." 
 
 Here Mr. Sibley says that when they came 
 in here they desired to adjourn, and if they 
 had been voted down, he, for one, would have 
 submitted. Here Mr. Sibley is corroborated 
 by the fiicts. Gobman is contradicted by 
 Sibley, and contradicted by the facts as they 
 occurred. Which shall we beheveV Shall 
 we believe Gorman, when he attempts to 
 send out his statement of facts to the world, 
 and which he wishes to be relied upon, or 
 shall we believe Sibley wlio is corroborated 
 by the facts themselves':" According to 
 Sibley, they came in here for the purpose of 
 adjourning. That is what they attempted to 
 do when they did come in. Therefore, I say 
 tbat the remarks of Sibley prove that 
 Uobman's remarks were untrue, and tho facts 
 prove them so. 
 
 Well, Ex-Governor Gobuan goes on to tell 
 
 us of the principles of the Democratic party, 
 I propose to bestow a few moments' attention 
 to that, and then conclude. He says : 
 
 " Does the Democratic party propose to extend 
 the institution of Slavery ? Not a single member 
 sitting in this Constitutional Convention but that 
 would rejoice to see the voice of the people stop 
 the progress of Slavery where it is. The Demo- 
 cratic party is not a pro-slavery party in the 
 Northern States." 
 
 I want gentleman to notice that particular 
 expression — the " Northern States " — because 
 before I get through, I intend to show what 
 the Democratic party is in the Southern 
 States. " The Democratic party is not a pro- 
 " slavery party in the Northern States." 
 No North, no South, no East, no West, but a 
 Union party ! 
 
 "They are in favor of having free territory 
 wherever it can be done by the legitimate and 
 constitutionally expressed voice of the people. Our 
 doctrine here now is, and we will embrace it by a 
 unanimous vote of the Convention, that neither 
 slavery or involuntary servitude shall exist within 
 the limits of Minnesota, except for crime whereof 
 the party has been duly convicted by a jury of his 
 countrymen. 'We will give the falsehood to the 
 declaration promulgated by their presses and their 
 speakers all over the country, that we are a pro- 
 slavery party, by putting the seal of condemna- 
 tion on their brow, in the Constitution that will be 
 framed by the Convention." 
 
 Now here we have the sentiments of the 
 Democratic party, as expressed by a member 
 of that party in the North. They occupy 
 pretty much the same position as the Repub- 
 lican party occupy, when their views are ex- 
 pressed by their own speakers at the Nortli. 
 They are opposed to the extension of slavery, 
 only they will put in that peculiar word " con- 
 stitutionally." That is the only difiFerencc. 
 They are decidedly and distinctly opposed to 
 the introduction of slavery into the Northern 
 States. But what are their acts in Congi-ess ':• 
 Who was it that introduced, who was it that 
 sustained, who was it that passed the Kansas- 
 Nebraska bin, which introduced slavery into 
 Kansas ? Was it not the Democratic party 
 of the North, which the gentleman says is 
 opposed to the extension of slavery ':• Then 
 do not they preach up free soil and free ter- 
 ritory, when at home, and do they not when 
 thoy get to Congress, and when they vote for 
 President, throw their influence continually 
 with the pro-slavery party 'i' 
 If that is this sentiment of the Democracy 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tttesdat, AuausT 4. 
 
 293 
 
 of the North, let us try for a moment to as- 
 certain how it is that this party in the North, 
 entertains the opinion which he there expi'ess- 
 es, became either the Democracy at the North 
 or the Democracy at the South. Which is dis- 
 honest — for they cannot pull together as they 
 do in the Congi'ess of the United States, with- 
 out a sacrifice of principle upon the one side or 
 the otlier ; and I know it is not the Democracy 
 of the South that is dishonest, for they still pro" 
 mulgate their principles right straight ahead. 
 It is well that the gentleman put in his words 
 "the Democratic Party are not a pro-slavery 
 " party at the North." He showed a great deal 
 of ingenuity upon that point, which ingenuity 
 will be pretty well expressed when I come to 
 read from the Pioneer & Democrat. I will 
 read a declaration of sentiment by the Hon. 
 M. Keitt, a leading Democratic member of 
 Congress from South Carolina. He says : 
 
 "The fountains of the great deep of the North 
 seems to me to be broken up, and the abolition flood 
 rises higher and higher every day. Little subal- 
 tern municipal elections, and the control of cross- 
 roads, which the opponents of Black Republican- 
 ism have in some instances torn from them, are 
 not noticeable wrecks upon the waters. They have 
 the legislative, judicial and executive power ; and 
 this is all that we at the South are concerned about. 
 " I believe from the signs, that the Demccracy will 
 be defeated in 1S60;" and while I entertain this 
 belief I shall not conceal it. I believe that the 
 safety of the South is only in herself. The road to 
 Federal honors should not be over her rights, nor 
 should betrayal and treachery be the passport to 
 Federal favor. My advice, then, to the South is, to 
 have some — not absolute — confidence in the Na- 
 tional Democratic party, and keep her powder dry. 
 The latter is much more likely to save her than the 
 former." 
 
 Now that is the sentiment of a portion of 
 the party with which the northern Democracy 
 continually act. Then it is well for the gen- 
 man to put in the " Democracy at th« North." 
 There is a Southern Democratic party, with 
 which the gentleman acts, and which is ad- 
 vising to " keep their powder dry," because 
 that is the last resort, having greater reliance 
 upon that than upon the Democracy of the 
 nation. 
 
 Well, Mr. President, to show the sentiment 
 of that party South, let us read a few senti- 
 ments as taken from the Charleston Mercury, 
 given at a celebration of the Fourth of July — a 
 day which ought to be held sacred to every 
 American ; a day when politics, when party, 
 
 when everything calculated in its nature and 
 tendency to harrass the feelings of one section 
 of the country towards another, ought to be 
 left entirely out of view ; a day on which above 
 all others, citizens of all portions of the Union 
 ought to meet together as brethren, and lay 
 aside all political preferences, and spend, as it 
 were, a jubilee. But what did they say upon 
 that day ? 
 
 "A Southern Confederacy. — The only reliable 
 and certain security of our Southern rights." 
 
 What will the Democracy of the North, 
 who are always harping upon being Union 
 savers, say to that ? 
 
 "Las Casasand Wilberforce. — The Spanish priest 
 was a statesman — the British statesman a charla- 
 tan." 
 
 " Tfie Year I860.— May it toll the death-knell of 
 these United States — an union of States, but not 
 of hearts." 
 
 There is a sentiment of the Democracy of 
 the South. How will the Union-saving Dem- 
 ocracy of the North relish that ? There is 
 the sentiment of the party with which gentle- 
 men at the other end of the Capitol are acting. 
 That is the party which calls themselves the 
 National party. 
 
 " Walker of Nicaragua and Walker of Kansas. — 
 The former a friend to the South, the latter an ene- 
 my to the Constitution." 
 
 Walker, this fillibuster, the friend of the 
 South. What next ? 
 
 " Kansas.— \{ she is not a Slave State it will be 
 the fault of Walker and the Administration. Let 
 thfe South look to all traitors." 
 
 There is a sentiment for you, promulgated 
 by this Southern wing of the Democratic 
 party. If Kansas is not a slave State, it will 
 be prevented by the treachery of the admin- 
 istration. This looks very much like the de- 
 claration of a party which wishes to extend 
 slavery beyond its present limits, and to bring 
 into this confederacy of States, another slave 
 State. Again — 
 
 " Butler and JBrooks.— The one the stay, the 
 other the promise of the State. The memories of 
 the aged Senator and the young Representative in- 
 spire us with equal homage." 
 
 Here follow some sentiments drank by the 
 ■members of the "Boat Company No. 4, 15th 
 Regiment of South Carolina MUitia," upon this 
 same Fourth of July, which show not only 
 the sentiment of the South, when assembled 
 to celebrate the glorious Fourth, but shows the 
 military spirit of that State, and which per- 
 vades the whole Democratic party. 
 
294 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 "Hon. P. S. Brooks. — Though dead, livcth in 
 the hearts of the sons of Carolina." 
 
 " Gen. Bonham, sucessor to Brooks. — Able to 
 lash with tongue and hand ; may he keep in mind 
 the achievement of his predecessor, and when ar- 
 gument has failed, wipe out every stain attempted 
 to be thrown upon the people or institutions of the 
 South, by the magic of a cowJdde." 
 
 " When argument has failed " — that is the 
 Democratic doctrine — " wipe out every stain 
 '' attempted to be thrown upon the people or 
 " institutions of the South, by the magic of a 
 " cowhide.^'' That is one of the planks engraft- 
 ed into the great Democratic platform. "When 
 argument has failed," when the good sense of 
 the people has rebuked them, then try the 
 border ruflBan power. It is a prominent plank 
 in their platform, yet a plank which sometimes 
 gets knocked out, and it was the knocking out 
 of that plank of the platform in the last elec- 
 tion, which causes the Democracy of Minne- 
 sota to-day, to occupy the ground which Caesar 
 wished his wife to occupy — the back ground. 
 
 "Slavery — An institution which the wants of 
 society keep in existence : negroes in the South, 
 and white slaves in the North." 
 
 Now where is there a Democrat who can 
 submit to act with that party without unman- 
 ning himself? "Negroes in the South and 
 white slaves in the North." Do they mean 
 our laboring class? No, sir! They mean 
 the men who do tlie dirty work for them in 
 politics. They call them their slaves, and 
 they glory in the appellation of slaves. It is 
 glory enough for them to be called the slaves of 
 the South. Still I do not know that I should 
 take any exception to that. If they desire 
 the name, let them wear it. 
 
 "Hon. L. M. Boriham, Member of Congress from 
 Edgefield. — May he supply himself with a cane 
 named after his predecessor, of sufficient strength 
 and size to beat, whenever its country's rights 
 demand it, all the Abolitionists from the Govern- 
 ment seat at Washington. 
 
 That is the gentleman who succeeds Mr. 
 Brooks. 
 
 The Hemp Crop of Kansas— Ought to be applied 
 in a domestic way to hang the Free State agitators 
 in the Territory. 
 
 Now, sir, take these anti-slavery opinions of 
 the North, as expressed by the Ex-Governor, 
 I take the pro-slavery sentiment of the South, 
 and see the work acting with the South, 
 and I say there is no man but must come to 
 the conclusion ibai either the Democratic 
 
 party North, or the Democratic party South 
 are dishonest. They cannot the one be op- 
 posed to slavery, and the other be in favor of 
 it, when every word and act in Congress, by 
 those who adhere to the present administra- 
 tion go to sustain slavery. 
 
 No'iV I propose to occupy a few moments 
 in reading a resolution which I find in the 
 Pioneer and Democrat^ to sustain the position 
 I have taken, that the object of the assemblage 
 in the other end of the Capitol is to defeat 
 the wish of the people to come into the 
 Union as a State. This resolution was passed 
 at a meeting at St. Peter — the county repre- 
 sented by my friend, Mr. Coggswell — on 
 the twenty-seventh of July : 
 
 Resolved, That we cordially approve of the stand 
 against fraud and injustice which the Democratic 
 delegation have made, and that we exhort them to 
 adhere to their position at all hazards, preferring 
 rather that we remain as a Territory, than that the 
 odious features of modern Kepublicanism shall be 
 thrust upon us in in our fundamental law against 
 the expressed will of the people." 
 
 Now if that is the declaration of the Demo- 
 cratic party — and it is published in the Pioneer 
 and Democrat, the Government organ here — 
 there is an intention in that party to defeat 
 our coming into the Union as a State, and 
 rather than let a Republican Constitution be 
 thrust upon the people of the Territory of 
 Minnesota, they will remain in the other end 
 of the Capitol to defeat it. 
 
 But I promised to introduce an item of 
 evidence to show that our friend. Governor 
 Gorman, is unworthy of credit. I know tliis 
 is a very serious charge, but when he brings 
 himself upon the witness stand to testify in 
 regard to a matter of fact, he makes himself 
 a pubhc witness, and all men have the right 
 to test his character for truth and veracity. 
 I hold in my hand the Pioneer and Democrat 
 of March 5th, 1857. Its reputation is above 
 suspicion, (laughter) and hence I read from 
 to it. The article is headed "A Second Tribute 
 His Excellency, Governor Gorman." It says : 
 
 " The fact is, however, as certain as it is singu- 
 lar, that in spite of the aids of your former ruptvo 
 and the general prosperity; in spite of the fact 
 that you were a Democratic Governor of a Demo- 
 cratic people, and acting in conjunction with a 
 Democratic Legislature, you came to the close of 
 the first session under your administration, an 
 object of contempt among your friends, and a de- 
 rision among your enemies. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 295 
 
 " Failing thus, as you have, to impress yourself 
 favorably upon the Democracy of this Territory ; 
 failing, also, to create a " Gorman " faction in the 
 party, which either in point of talent or number, 
 could claim the consideration of respectability; 
 and failing, further, in linking your name with any 
 measure for the benefit of the people, except as its 
 opponent ; we are frank to confess that your pres- 
 ent open alliance with the Black Republicans of 
 the Territory has occasioned us pleasure and com- 
 misseration ; — of pleasure that the Democrats are 
 relieved of the burden of your countenance, and 
 of commisseration for the opposition in view of 
 the incubus which is thus, in your person, fastened 
 upon them. 
 
 "But this alliance, if it does not redound to your 
 credit as a man, or to your fame as Executive, has 
 already secured one of the objects for which it was 
 consummated ; and the reproach can no longer be 
 urged against your Excellency, that your adminis- 
 tration is barren of even one solitary public meas- 
 ure. The bill for the removal of the Capitol can, 
 after your retiracy, be successfully pointed to in 
 vindication of the truth that your Excellency has 
 in one instance, at least, left your impress upon 
 the legislation of the Territory. That this measure 
 involved corruption in its passage, and must in- 
 volve perjury in its approval by your Excellency, 
 does not in the least invalidate the truth of what 
 we have stated. ?fo amount of crime can altar the 
 fact of your Excellency's success. The fact may 
 be damning, but it is no less a fact ; and with a 
 man of your Excellency's temper, success, even if 
 it brings infamy, is more palatable than the gall- 
 ing mortification of unvarying defeat. Organic 
 acts promise now to be mere cobweb trash, when 
 they stand against the interests of your pocket 
 and the demands of your ambition ; and the con- 
 summation of this act, if it prevents your attaining 
 celebrity for virtue, will certainly insure you noto- 
 riety for vice — an alternative far more congenial 
 to your Excellency than the burial of obscurity, 
 which, otherwise, must have remained your inevi- 
 table lot. There is a fitness, too, in the fact that 
 an administration, the inauguration of which was 
 an afflictive dispensation of Providence, the con- 
 tinuance of which has been characterized by folly 
 and imbecility, should close, as your Excellency's 
 bids fair to close, amid outrages upon the para- 
 mount law, amid the corruption of the legislature, 
 and amid the crimes, and the infamy following the 
 crimes of its ofiicial head." 
 - Now, sir, with that evidence piled up 
 against the ex-Governor, we will leave him 
 upon the present occasion, and offer a few re- 
 marks in regard to the position which the Re- 
 publican party hold in this country. It is 
 alleged by our opponents that we are enemies 
 of the Union, and it is the cry of the Repub- 
 lican party continually, " dissolve the Union." 
 The Republican party beg leave to represent 
 
 their own sentiments. What are they? 
 They are opposed to extension of slavery to 
 the Territories belonging to the United States ; 
 and they are opposed to the coming into the 
 Union of any more slave States. Such is 
 their position. But, say their opponents, 
 they are seeking to elevate the colored man to 
 a level with the white man. 
 
 Now, sir, so far as the Republican party are 
 concerned, they sympathize with suffering 
 humanity everywhere. Yes, sir, with the 
 poor suffering imbecile Democrat ; they would 
 pick them out of the mud, and vice and de- 
 gradation, and, if possible, make a man of 
 him ; they would, if possible, have him change 
 his opinions and take a different course, and 
 walk in the road that leads to honor. This 
 they have been trying to do, and we are hap- 
 py to know that very many have left their 
 course of sin and foUy and are walking in the 
 high road of Republicanism — and are now 
 the staunchest Republicans, and the strongest 
 opposers of the extension of slavery, we have 
 in all our ranks! 
 
 But we claim to be emphatically the white 
 man's friend. Look at tlie declaration con- 
 tained in the sentiment of the South : " Ne- 
 " groes, slaves in the South ; white men, 
 " slaves in the North." Now we extend an 
 invitation to all countries, to every people, lan- 
 guage and tongue, to come in and join m our 
 institutions. They come here to our free 
 Territories and free States to seek a home and 
 asylum from oppression. Now what do we 
 seek to do? We seek to elevate free labor; 
 we seek to prevent the coming amongst us 
 and working side by side with the farmer, the 
 slaves of the South. We do not ask them 
 to come here to be degraded ; we do not ask 
 them to come here to work with the bond 
 slave. We invite them to come here to en- 
 joy our free institutions, to be free men, and 
 to mix and mingle with free men. That is 
 our position as the white man's friend. 
 While we sympathize with the blacks, our 
 determination is to protect the whites from 
 the baneful influences of slave labor. Our 
 acts prove that ; while their acts prove that 
 they are for the .dissolution of the Union. 
 What did Brooks say? "If Fremont was 
 " elected, he was in favor of marching to the 
 " Capitol, seizing jipon the Treasur}^ march- 
 " ing down South and establishing a Southern 
 
296 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 " Confederacy ; of tearing to pieces the Con- 
 " stitution of the United States, and tramp- 
 " ling it under foot." Such is the language 
 of the South, and just in keeping with that 
 declaration was the acts of the minority here 
 on the thirteenth of last month. It was 
 "rule or ruin." They knew they had not a 
 majority and they were unwilling that the 
 majority should rule. They supposed they 
 had adjourned the Convention, and they 
 marched off as Brooks marched off" with the 
 Treasury, but poor mistaken men, they left 
 the Treasury behind. It reminds me of what 
 Fremont told a Southern man, who said if he, 
 Fremont, were elected he should leave the 
 Union. " AVell, sir," said Fremont, " I sup- 
 pose you will leave the State behind." They 
 left the Convention ,but they left the Hall be- 
 hind, and they left a majority of members. 
 
 Now, sir, in framing a Republican Consti- 
 tution, our appeal is not to government offi- 
 cers and heads of departments, but to the 
 people to sustain us. While they go to 
 Washington to get sympathy, we go to the 
 people and lay the facts before them. If 
 they sustain us, well and good — if they con- 
 demn us, why then we are condemned. But 
 we are willing to go to the people with our 
 Republican Constitution, and with no other 
 Constitution can we come into the Union. 
 
 Thanking the Convention for their indul- 
 gence, I will resume my seat. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Mr. President, if ther« is 
 time, before the Convention adjourn, I would 
 like to make a few remarks on the resolutions 
 which have been called up, and especially up- 
 on that offered by the President of this Con- 
 vention, alluding to the intention of the Dem- 
 ocratic Convention in the other end of the 
 Capitol to keep out of the Union, if possible, 
 the State of Minnesota, unless it is to come 
 in Democratic. But before proceeding to 
 this, I wish [to present a few points of con- 
 trast between the Republicans entirely com- 
 posing this Convention — the Constitutional 
 Convention of Minnesota — and the Demo- 
 cratic caucus that left this Convention on the 
 thirteenth of July, and have since assembled 
 from day "to day in the other end of the Cap- 
 itol. 
 
 Ist. The Republicans Ist. The Democrats 
 have fifty-four dolc^^atos have but forty-three 
 
 with credentials that are 
 unquestioned. 
 
 have but lorty-tn 
 with unquestionable ( 
 dentials. 
 
 2d. The Republicans 
 have fifty-nine members 
 in actual attendance with 
 cfedentials. 
 
 3d. The Republicans 
 refused to organize the 
 Convention at 12 o'clock 
 at night, and only watch- 
 ed the Democrats to pre- 
 vent them from doing it, 
 as they once did in the 
 Ohio Legislature under 
 Got. Medary's lead. 
 
 4th. The Republicans 
 laid no plans to defeat 
 an organization of the 
 Convention on the first 
 day of the session. 
 
 5th. The Republicans 
 with fifty-six delegates, 
 did organize the Con- 
 vention on the first day 
 of the session, and went 
 on with business in the 
 Hall designed for the 
 meeting of the Conven- 
 tion. 
 
 6th. The Republicans 
 presented their certifi- 
 cates of election, and 
 were sworn in on the 
 13th of July, the first 
 day of the session. 
 
 7th. The Republicans 
 had no credentials to no- 
 tice but those that were 
 presented by members 
 then present. 
 
 8th. The Republicans 
 have none in their num- 
 bers who are ineligible 
 to the office of delegate. 
 
 9th. The Republican 
 delegates all reside with- 
 in the Districts from 
 which they were elected, 
 as required by law. 
 
 10th. The Republicans 
 held no caucus on the 
 Sabbath. 
 
 2d. The Democrats, at 
 most, have but fifty-four 
 on the list. And no one 
 can tell how many are in 
 attendance, for want of 
 calling the roll. ' 
 
 3d. The Democrats 
 laid their plans to organ- 
 ize the Convention at 12 
 o'clock at night ; but 
 were prevented by the 
 vigilance of the Repub- 
 licans. 
 
 4th. The Democrats, 
 by a trick, tried to defeat 
 such organization, and 
 run away from the Con- 
 vention as it was about 
 to organize ; and in less 
 than a minute after en- 
 tering the Hall. 
 
 5th. The Democrats 
 left the place designated 
 for the Convention, and 
 for two weeks did no- 
 thing. 
 
 6th. The Democrats 
 did not report on their 
 credentials until the 23d 
 day of July ; and were 
 not sworn in until the 
 27 th. 
 
 7th. The Democrats 
 reported on the crcdcu- 
 tisus of the Pembina 
 members, at the very 
 hour when those mem- 
 bers were taking dinner 
 at Little Falls, 140 miles 
 from St. Paul, and sev- 
 eral days before their 
 arrival at the Capitol. 
 
 8th. The Democrats 
 have three United States 
 officers, who, by the laws 
 of the Territory, arc in- 
 eligible to the office of 
 delegate to the Consti- 
 tutional Convention. 
 
 9th. Five of the Pem- 
 bina Democratic dele- 
 gates reside outside of 
 the District from which 
 they profess to have 
 been elected ; four of 
 them from beyond the 
 line of the State, and 
 the fifth being from Min- 
 neapolis, and never hav- 
 ing lived within five 
 hundred miles of his 
 pretended constituency 
 — all of them by law 
 disqualified for seats in 
 the Convention. 
 
 10th. The Democrats 
 held a caucus on Sunday 
 evening, which lasted 
 'till midnight, and then 
 their piety was shocked 
 because the Republicans 
 went to the Capital too 
 early on Monday morn- 
 ing. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 297 
 
 11th. J. W. XORTH 
 
 called the Convention to 
 order at the written re- 
 quest of a majority of 
 me whole Convention. 
 
 11th. Mr. Secretary 
 Chase attempted to in- 
 terrupt this proceeding 
 by calling the Conven- 
 tion to order in opposi- 
 tion to the will of the 
 majority. 
 
 12th. "Mr. Chase was 
 not a proper person to 
 call the Convention to 
 order; not being a le- 
 gally elected member — 
 having no certificate of 
 election, and not being 
 eligible to the ofiBce. 
 
 13th. On the contrary, 
 the precedents in other 
 States condemn in all 
 respects the course pur- 
 sued by the Democrats. 
 
 1-tth. The Democrats 
 pretended to adjourn 
 when there was no or- 
 ganization to be ad- 
 journed. 
 
 15th. The Democrats 
 on the first day had no 
 President to preside nor 
 Secretary to record their 
 proceedings — and no 
 proceeding to record. 
 
 16th. The Democrats 
 have uo record to show 
 who of their number 
 were present for the first 
 two weeks; they never 
 having called the roll. 
 And 1 am not aware that 
 they have called it to 
 this day. 
 
 17th. The Democrats 
 none of them were sworn 
 in until the •27th of July, 
 and then they carefullv 
 avoided calling the roll, 
 so as to show how many 
 of their number were 
 absent. 
 
 The Convention was called to order, by 
 calling Mr. Galbbaith to the Chair. 
 
 Mr. Galbbaith being the only person ap- 
 pointed to the Chair, was the only one to en- 
 tertain motions to adjourn, or any other mo- 
 tioDS. 
 
 Mr. Chase having no certificate of election 
 was only a disturber of the Convention, and 
 his right to be there at all was not recognized 
 by the majority and could not be legally, 
 until he had in some way shown himself enti- 
 tled to a seat in the body, much less his right 
 to call the Convention to order against the 
 express wish of a majority of the whole num- 
 ber entitled to seats. 
 
 As no certificates were presented by the 
 minority, and as they did not wait to com- 
 plete a preliminary organization, and had no 
 Secretary, there is no legal means of know- 
 ing how many of them were present — whether 
 indeed any of them were there — for they 
 38 
 
 12th. J. W. North 
 was a proper person to 
 call the Convention to 
 order, being a legally 
 elected member with a 
 certificate of election. 
 
 13th. The precedents 
 in other States sustain 
 in all respects the course 
 taken by the Republi- 
 cans. 
 
 14th. The Republicans 
 did not adjourn until 
 they had an organized 
 body to adjourn. 
 
 15th. The Republicans 
 had a President to pre- 
 side and a Secretary to 
 record their first day's 
 proceedings. 
 
 16th. The Republicans 
 have a record to show 
 just who were present 
 every day from the first 
 day of the session. 
 
 • 17th. The Republican 
 members were ail sworn 
 in on the 13th of July, 
 the first day of the ses- 
 sion, and their records 
 show how many were 
 sworn in. 
 
 ! have no record of their proceedings of that 
 I day. 
 
 j Under such circumstances it was impossi- 
 ble that they could have a legal adjournment 
 of their own number, to another day ; even if 
 they had been there alone, for they had no 
 body to adjourn. It could not be properly 
 known that any portion of the Convention 
 Vere there without some list of names or the 
 production of certificates. This should have 
 been ascertained before any attempt to ad- 
 journ. Besides if they had a proper adjourn- 
 ment, they had no Secretary to record it, and 
 therefore no proper evidence of such fact. 
 Nor can they properly have anything on their 
 records to show whether they went into the 
 Representatives' Hall on the 13th, as a Con- 
 vention or as a democratic caucus. From their 
 conduct it appeared like a caucus ; and the 
 fifty-six members of the Constitutional Con- 
 vention paid no attention to their manoeuvres, 
 but, in obedience to duty, proceeded to an 
 organization. 
 
 In the face of these fiicts, the minority 
 claim to have legally adjourned, and even 
 have the impudence to assert that they not 
 only adjourned themselves, but that they also 
 adjourned the majority who never recognized 
 their authority in any respect. As weU might 
 any rowdy in the street rush in and adjourn 
 the Convention after its permanent organiza- 
 tion, as for Chase (who held no credentials,) 
 to attempt to do it in the preliminary organi- 
 zation. The claim is too ridiculous for sane 
 men to assert for a moment, and none would 
 think of doing it, except on the princi- 
 ple that drowning men catch at straws. 
 
 In order to make anything of this famous 
 adjournment, which seems to be the only hair 
 on which they hang, it must of course be 
 claimed that Chase was Chairman of the 
 meeting, and authorized to entertain motions. 
 But let us inquire by what right, if at all, he 
 held this prerogative. 
 
 It was first claimed that he had a right by 
 virtue of his oflBce as Secretary. When they 
 found that all precedents foiled them, they 
 gave this up. 
 
 They next claimed that as a matter of 
 " courtesy, this prerogative should be extended 
 " to him." But if Mr. Chase, without a cer- 
 tificate of election, can, on a claim of courtesy, 
 take away the rights of delegates who have 
 
298 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 certificates, and against the express will of a 
 majority, intrude himself upon them and 
 adjourn theu' body, how many other govern- 
 ment oflBcials might claim the same courtesy, 
 and by virtue of it, exercise the same control ? 
 
 There is no evidence that any number of 
 the delegates extended to Chase this cour- 
 tesy, but it is certain that fifty-six delegates^ 
 then present did not. 
 
 I have not thought it best, Mr. Pbesident, 
 to spend much time heretofore, in talking 
 upon this subject, preferring rather to leave 
 the consideration of it until the time should 
 arrive when we might have all the positions 
 taken by those gentleman who so unceremo- 
 niously left this body ; and I think we have, 
 by this time, pretty fully ascertamed their po- 
 sition. I think we have learned pretty nearly 
 all the sham excuses they have to give out by 
 way of attempting to justify themselves for so 
 unceremoniously leaving this body. I will, 
 as briefly as possible, advert to one or two 
 of their speeches, and notice a few points. 
 
 It is not a little singular to see, with what 
 unanimity they resort to every manoeuvre and 
 subterfuge, and attempt to throw dust and 
 mystify, so as to prevent, if possible, the real 
 facts of the case from coming before the peo- 
 ple, for their impartial judgment. It is a 
 little amusing to see, in cx-Gov. Goeman's 
 speech, the very great anxiety he seems to 
 feel, to have the people understand, that the 
 Republicans are a dangerous set of men — 
 perfectly terrible — the chief points he makes 
 being the expression of his fears of the out- 
 rages the Republicans would commit, if the 
 Democrats did not prevent them by depriving 
 them of an opportunity. It is really amu- 
 sing! 
 
 Near the commencement of his speech, the 
 Ex-Governor says: 
 
 " The scenes which have transpired in the Ter- 
 ritories of this Union within the last eighteen 
 months, or two years, have given cause — I think 
 just cause — of alarm for the perpetuity of the insti- 
 tutions of our country." 
 
 Knowing the partiality of the Ex-Governor, 
 for certain peculiar institutions, it might be 
 well to inquire what institutions the Republi- 
 cans are opposed to, for it is the perpetuity 
 of those he seems to be alarmed about. I 
 notice, on the other page, he alludes to it 
 again: 
 
 " They belong, he says, to a party which has no 
 sympathy for the institutions of the South as they 
 view them." 
 
 A little further down he says : 
 
 "No sir, go where you will, and these men will 
 tell you that, whatsoever calamities may befal this 
 Union, the institution ofslavery shall never extend 
 one inch beyond where it is now." 
 
 In two or three other places, I notice simi- 
 lar allusions to the horrible fact that Republi- 
 cans will oppose the peculiar institution, be- 
 traying the anxiety he is in to alarm the 
 country about their fearful designs, and their 
 being opposed, actually opposed to the further 
 extension of slavery. But terrible as the 
 accusation is, to this we plead guilty. Wo 
 are, decidedly, calmly and firmly opposed to 
 the further extension of slavery. The Ex- 
 Governor has apprehended us right. But I 
 cannot tliink the fearful vision has really 
 alanned him quite so much as it would seem. 
 
 In other parts of the speech, he would 
 appear to have the idea constantly before him, 
 that the Republican members of this Conven- 
 tion, and the party in general, have a strong 
 disp(^ition for bloodshed ; that we were fierce 
 and anxious for a fight, in which we migljt 
 gain something — I don't know exactly what. 
 I will read : 
 
 "I want the country to know why we did it. If 
 we had gone into the Hall then, it would have been 
 said, we came there to take it by force. Our op- 
 ponents had circulated the report, that we intend- 
 ed to take it by force. * * * » « 
 
 "Mr. President, that is exactly what they want- 
 ed to do. They wanted violence. They wanted 
 food for fanaticism. They wanted the material for 
 another campaign. It would have suited ther pur- 
 pose if there had been violence and bloodshed. 
 
 "Well sir, in our caucus, we resolved to be 
 peaceable, and to commit no violence. We re- 
 solved not to give them the chance they wanted to 
 tell the country we were ruflSans. We went to the 
 door of the Hall in obedience to our adjournment, 
 and when it had been announced in an official form, 
 that the Hall was in the peaceful possession of a 
 meeting of the citizens of the Territory, wc ad 
 journed to this chamber. Again "Othello's occu- 
 pation's gone." That was the crisis of this Con- 
 stitutional Convention. If violence had been used 
 on that occasion, it would have furnished food for 
 their party in Minnesota for years to come. 
 Instead of that, our whole proceedings have been 
 conducted in a quiet, orderly manner, in accor- 
 dance with parliamentary law and practice." 
 
 I have a few words to say upon the passage 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, Acgcst 4. 
 
 299 
 
 I have read, and other passages occuring in 
 the speech carrying the same idea, for he 
 speaks often of the anxiety of the Republi- 
 can party to have war and bloodshed, and 
 seems to desii'e very much to make the im- 
 pression that the Democrats are all too peace- 
 able and quiet and orderly to be drawn into 
 conflict with Such men. 
 
 Now, let me ask what are the fiicts in the 
 case, known to every observing man in this 
 city, nearly every man in the Territory ? The 
 fact is well known, that these same gentlemen, 
 representing themselves so innocent and peace- 
 ful before this body and the public did, so 
 long as there was hope of accomplishing any- 
 thing, b}n it assume a boastful and threatening 
 air, talking so loudly in their caucus as to be 
 distinctly heard in the street, and announcing 
 their determination to take this Hall, " peace- 
 " ably if they could, forcibly if they must." 
 Others of them declared to a merchant in 
 this city, that " they would have the Hall if 
 " it costs their heart's blood," and other similar 
 rash and foolish expressions were made in the 
 street. But the more calm and better judg- 
 ing portion, it seems, voted down these violent 
 •men, and would not allow them to do it. 
 Meanwhile, tliis Convention went quietly on 
 with business, attending to the work which 
 their constituents sent them here to do. 
 Whilst all this blustering was going on, they 
 looked into this Hall and saw the determina- 
 tion that was manifested here, and one of their 
 most distinguished leaders, was heard to say 
 " you see they will not yield — you must 
 " give up ;" and Secretary Chase said to 
 them : " It is no use gentlemen ; no man can 
 " get into that chair." They then turned on 
 their heel, went into the other end of the Cap- 
 itol, and concluded to make out and represent 
 themselves as quiet and much abused men ; 
 and visions of revolvers and bludgeons, and 
 bowie-knives and Sharp's rifles, seem to have 
 been swimming in the ex-Governor's brain 
 from that day to this. It is amusing, almost 
 contemptible in these men, after ranting and 
 blustering as they have done, now to whine 
 over the warlike disposition of tliis peaceable 
 Republican Convention. It reminds me of one 
 FalstaflF, that used to bluster and boast very 
 much of himself, and wherever he got fright- 
 ened and run from a contest, he was always 
 sure, in telling the tale, to make himself out a 
 
 great hero, only overcome by overwhelming 
 numbers all armed to the teeth. 
 
 I fancy I see the ex-Governor in the fol- 
 lowing passage from Shakspeare's King Hen- 
 ry IV : 
 
 "P. ^«rw.— What's the matter? 
 
 " Fal. — What's the matter? there be four of us 
 here have ta'en a thousand pound this morning. 
 
 " P. Hen. — Where is it Jack? where is it? 
 
 "Fill. — Where is it? taken from us it is; a hun- 
 dred upon our four of us. 
 
 "P. Hen. — What, a hundred men? 
 
 " Fal. — I am a rogue, if I were not at half-sword 
 with a dozen of them two hours together. I have 
 'scaped by miracle. I am eight times thrust 
 through the doublet ; four through the hose ; my 
 buckler cut through and through; my sword hack- 
 ed like a hand Saw. * * * * 
 
 " P. Hen. — What, fought ye with them all? 
 
 "Fal.—M\^ I know not what ye call all; but 
 if I fought not with fifty of them, I am a bunch of 
 radish ; if there were not two or three and fifty 
 upon poor old Jack, then I am no two legged crea- 
 ture. ♦ *♦*♦* 
 
 " P. Hen. — * * * Mark now, how a plain 
 tale shall put you down. Then did we two set on 
 you four ; and, with a word out-faced you from 
 your prize, and have it ; yea, and can show it you 
 here in the house ; and, Falstaff, you carried your 
 guts away as nimbly, with as quick dexterity, and 
 roared for mercy, and still ran and roared, as ever 
 I beard a bull-calf. What as slave ai-t thou to hack 
 thy sword as thou hast done, and then say it was 
 in a fight ! What trick, what device, what start- 
 ing-hole, canst thou now find out, to hide thee 
 from this open and apparent shame?" 
 
 There are other points in this speech which 
 I would like to notice, if time would serve. 
 Frequently throughout it, he seems disposed 
 to draw a parallel between the RepubUcans 
 in this Territory, and the Republicans in 
 Kansas. He says : 
 
 " In Kansas to-day, if the truth were told, their 
 Emigrant Aid Societies have peopled that country 
 with a set of men armed with Sharp's rifles, armed 
 with Colt's revolvers, armed with deadly weap- 
 ons, &c." 
 
 Again, he says : 
 
 . " Give this Republican party the prestige of 
 power in Minnesota, and they will flood your Ter- 
 ritory with the minions of their Emigrani Aid So- 
 cieties, armed with rifles, Ac." 
 
 And he keeps drawing the parallel, and says 
 in reference to this, that the Democratic cau- 
 cus had resolved not to give these Republicans 
 any "food for fanaticism" — not to give the 
 Republicans a pretext of Democratic wrong 
 doings to make a noise about. I ask no bet- 
 
800 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 ter statement, Mr. President. I am glad the 
 ex-Governor has been willing to place himself 
 and colleagues upon the same footing with his 
 party in Kansas. The illustration is a good 
 one. The Republicans in Kansas have fought 
 in self defense. The Border Ruffians fought 
 and shed blood there in a cowardly manner, 
 when they were in the ascendant and had noth- 
 ing to oppose them ; but whenever the Free 
 State men have stood their ground and show- 
 ed grit in defense of their rights, the assailants 
 have recoiled and made a great outcry and 
 noise about Sharp's rifles and revolvers and 
 revolutions, just as Governor Gorman and his 
 friends have done. As long as the latter 
 thought they could effect anything by it, they 
 heralded it to the world that they would have 
 this hall. But when the Republicans met 
 them quietly, like men in the flirm discharge 
 of their duty, they backed oif, and began to 
 raise a hue and cry about arms and revolution. 
 I thank the ex-Governor for presenting this 
 matter so truly before his friends and the 
 country. The disposition has been the same 
 on the part of the Democratic party here that 
 was manifested by the same party in Kansas. 
 Notice the illegal voting ! There, the Border 
 Ruffians from western Missouri rushed in and 
 told the people of Kansas to stand aside ; and 
 where they had power, drove the real people 
 of Kansas from the polls. So it was with the 
 Democracy on the first day of June, right 
 here in the city of St. Paul ; and so numerous 
 and outrageous were the frauds practiced at 
 the polls here, that even their own newspa- 
 per — as unscrupulous a sheet as it is — was 
 compelled to chronicle the wrong as " shame- 
 ful fraud." The same thing occurred also at 
 St. Anthony, and at other precincts where 
 they had the power and could proceed with 
 impunity. But not having the same relative 
 numerical force here in Minnesota that they 
 had in Kansas, of course they could not go 
 quite to the same extent. But just as far as 
 they had the power to go, so far they went. 
 I thank the ex-Governor again, for drawing 
 the parallel in so fair a manner, between him- 
 self and his friends, and the Border RuJBQans 
 of Kansas. 
 
 I had thought, at one time, to review the 
 ex-Governor's remarks in regard to the elec- 
 tion of the members from St. Anthony, upon 
 which he dwelt at considerable length. But 
 
 one of these gentlemen, ( Mr. Secombe,) hav- 
 ing presented this case the other day with 
 great clearness, I am relieved from that ne- 
 cessity. But the ex-Governor, alluded to the 
 alleged connection of Judge Trumbull with the 
 St. Anthony case. In reference to that mat- 
 ter, I would remark that I have seen in that 
 party from time to time, a persistent deter- 
 mination to declare and send it abroad, that 
 Senator Trumbull counselled the Board of 
 Canvassers of Hennepin county in regard to 
 the course they pursued. Notwithstanding 
 this has been contradicted repeatedly by the 
 St. Anthony Hepublican, and over and over 
 again, contradicted by the Register of Deeds 
 of Hennepin county, it has been still repeated 
 and reiterated, as though some great advan- 
 tage was to be gained by perpetuating that lie. 
 But I will say here, Mr. President, if that be 
 so — if Judge Trumbull was counselled, and 
 he did give his advice in the case — perhaps 
 there is no higher legal authority in all the 
 Western or Northern States. I believe he is 
 regarded as one of the clearest and soundest 
 lawyers in the North West, and if he has 
 given an opinion in favor of the course pur- 
 sued by that Board, that, in my judgment, 
 would strengthen the case wonderfully. But 
 it seems that the case is sufficiently strong 
 without the help of Judge Trumbull. But sir, 
 I am authorized to say, and I do say, without 
 fear of successful contradiction, that the whole 
 story, from beginning to end, which tliese gen- 
 tlemen have taken so much pains to publish 
 and repeat, is all utterly without foundation, 
 all false and untrue, from beginning to end. 
 So much for that. 
 
 Now, sir, with regard to the Pembina case, 
 the ex-Governor says : 
 
 " Sir, I care not from which side of the river the 
 delegates are elected. Pembina is entitled to rep- 
 resentation upon this floor, unless you can prove 
 that there is no Seventh Council District." 
 
 Again, he says : 
 
 " If the Enabling act then changes the boundary 
 of the county of Pembina, which I say it does not, 
 that portion of the county still within the bounda- 
 ries of the proposed State, yet more than two 
 thousand miles square, of right claims the repre- 
 sentation of the county, unless forbid by law."* 
 
 The ex-Govenior has a fault of stretching 
 stories sometimes, and it seems he has in- 
 
 "* In the revised edition of the Governor's 
 speech this is made to read two thousand square 
 miles — the other must have been a misprint. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 301 
 
 dulged a little in regard to the area of a part 
 of tlae county of Pembina ; for there would 
 hardly be found room for two thousand miles 
 square between Hudson's Bay and the Mis- 
 souri river. 
 
 A VOICE. Is it not two thousand square 
 miles ? 
 
 ' I^Ir. NORTH. Two thousand miles square, 
 is the reading. I might think, that this might 
 have been a mistake of the ex-Governor's, 
 but such mistakes occur so often wnih. him, 
 that I am inclined to think it is in harmony 
 with the rest of the speech, and not a mere 
 misprint. 
 
 It would seem, for the first time in the his- 
 tory of this Tenitory, the certificates of elec- 
 tion obtained by certain members of the body 
 in the other end of the Capitol, purporting to 
 come from Pembina County, came not fi'om 
 Pembina, but from the county of Nicollet. 
 I am informed, by a gentleman familiar as 
 well with this transaction as with former 
 elections in Pembina, that heretofore, when 
 their representatives and covmcillors have 
 brought any certificates at all, they have 
 brought them from the Register of Deeds of 
 the county of Pembina. It seems they were 
 in trouble. They wanted a full representa- 
 tion, and could hardly wait for, or dared not 
 ventiure, to bring the certificates fiom the 
 county officers on the western side of Red 
 River, and so they had them purport to come 
 from Nicollet County, for the reason, they 
 say, that Pembina is attached to Nicollet 
 County for judicial piu^ses. 
 
 But there is another very singular feet in 
 this case. It is this : that these same dele- 
 gates came from Pembina without any certi- 
 ficates, and before they are within a hundred 
 miles of the Capitol, their certificates are 
 here. They lie here two weeks before they 
 are reported upon ; and then they are report- 
 ed upon several niays before the delegates 
 arrive ! It is stated, in one of the city pa- 
 pers, by a gentleman well known in the Ter- 
 ritory, and direct from Pembina, how the 
 election occurred. I read the account from 
 the St Paul Daily Times of July STth. 
 
 " All About Pkkbixa ! — By the arrival of Mr. 
 B. T. Baldwia from Pembina on Saturday we are 
 placed in possession of the actual returns of the 
 Delegate election there, which we hasten to lay be- 
 fore our readers. 
 
 " Mr. Baldwin is one of the pioneers of the west, 
 and an old resident of this city, so that his state- 
 ments may be implicitly relied on as correct. 
 
 " Mr. Baldwin says, that the voters of Pembina 
 city on the west side of the river, got together on 
 the first Monday in June and drew up a ticket to 
 be voted for on the east side of the river, and 
 knowing by the provisions of the Enabling Act that 
 the west side had no part in the election, the polls 
 there were not opened. 
 
 " On the east side of the Red River he says there 
 were two places of voting, and the ticket — Demo- 
 cratic of course and the only one in the field — was 
 composed of four candidates, and ran as follows : 
 Joseph Rolette, Jerome St. Martre, J. P. Wilson, 
 and Joseph Versere. 
 
 " Of these Joseph Rolette and JeromeSt. Martre 
 were both from the west side of the river, outside 
 " the boundaries of the proposed State" and of 
 the remaining two, J. P. Wilson, a resident of 
 Minneapolis, was then on a flying trip to Sheyenne 
 (three hundred miles from the election precinct) 
 and had never been near Pembina in his life I 
 Joseph Versere was a half-breed living on the east 
 side — the only one of the ticket eligible to elec- 
 tion. 
 
 " Mr Baldwin (a Democrathimself,) was present, 
 but perceiving that a game of high handed fraud 
 was being played, refused to participate; and 
 threatened to "post" every man who became an 
 accomplice in the crime. 
 
 " Well — the farce went on, and Mr. Baldmn as- 
 certained at night from the " Judges of Election" 
 that there had been only eleven [11] votes cast, all 
 told I — and that five [5] of these came from Pem- 
 bina city, on the west side. This would leave six 
 simon-pure voters to elect four delegates, but now 
 Gorman and his tools — Becker, Sherburne, Flan- 
 dran, Sibley, Brown &, Co. — insolently claim six 
 delegates — or precisely one delegate to every 
 voter ! 
 
 "The two extra men whom they have fraudu- 
 lently summoned to the rescue of collapsing De- 
 mocracy, are Jas. McFetridge, who is Custom 
 House officer at Pembina, and who was Clerk at the 
 bogus election the ridiculous details of which we 
 give above, and a half-breed cousin of Rolette's. 
 All these six are now sitting at the Democratic 
 " Convention," to frame a Constitution for the 
 Free People of Minnesota. To the truth of the 
 above facts Mr. B. is willing to make affidavit. 
 
 " There — ^the particulars of this stupendous fraud 
 which the Gorman rebels hoped would be hidden 
 in the shadow of its own unexplored obscurity, are 
 before the world. On these six is the whole force of 
 the Revolutionists leaning for an apology, as with- 
 out these, they would be — even admitting the other 
 half dozen of their bogus ' members' to be simon- 
 pure — in a helpless minority of eleven. A fair and 
 candid statement is now before the people, and 
 without a comment, we leave all honest men to 
 deduce their own inferences." 
 
302 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tcesday, August 4. 
 
 This was published in this city on the twen- 
 ty-seventh of July, and it has not yet been 
 contradicted in any material point. It seems 
 then, that two of the Pembina delegation, with- 
 out any election whatever, come in and claim 
 seats and are admitted. Thus we see with 
 what remarkable facility they can induce men 
 to take seats in that body, to justify the pro- 
 ceedings of a minority, scraping up delegates 
 and, fittbg them out with certificates without 
 foundation of right, to enact the farce of pre- 
 tending to be the Constitutional Convention 
 of Minnesota. 
 
 Let us look at it in the light of candor and 
 fairness, and at their complaints in the case. 
 They pretend to be grieved, that certain men 
 have certificates and seats in this Convention, 
 which they think they ought not to have ; and 
 what do they do ? Without ever coming here 
 and presenting a courteous, parliamentary 
 claim, and contesting faiiiy the seats of these 
 persons — without daring to meet them and 
 make the issue, which has been invited by 
 the St. Anthony members, they endeavor to 
 noise it abroad and prove to the world, that 
 great injustice has been done to them. And 
 they think to be heard by the people in all 
 this, notwithstanding the illegal votes they 
 obtained ; notwithstanding their outrageous 
 frauds, that made even themselves to blush, 
 by which a thousand illegal votes were cast 
 here in this city ; and passing over the Bas- 
 sett case, wherein they ejected that gentle- 
 man from the Legislature some two years ago, 
 and the case wherein Judge Vaughn was 
 treated in like manner ; and without thinking 
 of the case of Mr. llowell, who was also 
 ejected from the Council, on the ground of a 
 mere clerical error, and with reference to 
 which they have ever confessed, that it was 
 the wickedest thing they ever did. 
 
 We say to them : 
 
 We hope, gentlemen, you will repent of 
 your sins ; but we also hope you will bear 
 bear these things in mind, when you profess 
 fiuch a holy horror of tricks, and so strict an 
 observance of law, and when you consider 
 the case of the St. Anthony certificates, 
 which were issued in strict conformity with 
 the law, even as you understood it, up to the 
 hour of election. These men who were so 
 shocked at the proceedings in the St, Anthony 
 case, themselves attempted a fraud in that 
 
 very case. They attempted a trick to secure 
 a certain amount of votes, and the election of 
 a certain delegate. But when the tricksters 
 are caught in their own trap, we here them 
 whining about it. 
 
 The St. Anthony Baypress, the Democratic 
 organ of the place, in an editorial article 
 written prior to the election, holds the followii 
 ing language : 
 
 "It being the universally received construction 
 in all parts of the Territory, of the Enabling Act, 
 at least for the purposes of this canvass, that each 
 precinct is entitled to double the number of delegates 
 in the Convention, which it Jias both of Bepresenta- 
 tives and Councillors in the Legislature, St. Antho- 
 ny should make her nominations and elections 
 accordingly ; else she might fail of having her due 
 representation. Certainly such would be the case 
 if she should only choose Ee^resentative delegates, 
 while the precincts choose Councillor delegates in 
 addition, and also secured seats for them. At the 
 same time it should be borne in mind that the 
 Convention, like any other legislative body, will 
 decide the number, as well as judge of the qualifi- 
 cations of its own members ; and that when assem- 
 bled it may take upon itself to construe the Enab- 
 ling Act to suit its own notion, caprice or conven- 
 ience, without the remotest reference to what the 
 people have thought or done in the premises. 
 The Convention, as regards its rules of action, or its 
 o)'ganization, will be entirely irresponsible, and if it 
 should hold that only Representative delegates 
 could be admttted to seats, the Councillor dele- 
 gates .will be compelled to retire. A thousand 
 certificates of election, signed by a thousand in- 
 spectors of election, would not avail them. Would 
 it not then be the part of wisdom to prepare for, 
 or guard against whatever may happen ? Would 
 it not be the part of wisdom, and prevent misun- 
 derstanding and ; embarrassment, to designate or 
 distinguish in some simple, plain manner the two 
 classes of delegates, either as Keprescntativc or 
 Councillor, on the tickets themselves ? After such 
 a precaution, it would be known who must retire, 
 should the Convention, as is not at all improbable, 
 put a construction upon the Enabling Act diflerent 
 from the popular construction. And thus much 
 time and contention and many heart-burnings 
 might be saved," 
 
 In]tliis article it is urged upon the people 
 of that precinct to make a distinction in their 
 nominations — to name some as CouncOlor, 
 and some as Representative delegates ; that 
 there might be no question, when they came 
 before the Convention, who should be entitkvl 
 to scats. They so understood the law up to 
 the time of the election. They so interpreted 
 it in their organ before tJie election, and it was 
 so understood afterwards ; for even the 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 303 
 
 Express acknowledged that the Register of 
 Deeds from Hennepin county might have 
 acted honestly. 
 
 Now, I say, Mr. President, after so much 
 noise about the matter, it is extremely ridicu- 
 lous that men should give one interpretation 
 of the law up to the time of the election, and 
 then, when they get caught in a trap set for 
 others by one of their own men, who imme- 
 diately afterwards run away, and left it for 
 others, as the Express intimated, " to haul his 
 own chesnuts out of the fire " — should 
 attempt to prejudice the whole Republican 
 party on account of his and their own trick — 
 I say, sir, it is not only extremely ridiculous, 
 but it is a little contemptible. 
 
 But the organ says this Convention would 
 be their own interpreters of the law, and 
 would have the right to decide upon the qual- 
 ifications of its own members. Then why 
 did they hesitate ? Why did they come into 
 that door in a body, and in less than foi"ty- 
 five seconds depart from this Hall, and refuse 
 to come in and let the question be passed 
 upon by this Convention, as the only inter- 
 preters of the law, and in the only mode and 
 manner in which it could be done ? 
 
 They have said that we were even anxious 
 to get rid of the St. Anthony delegates. Now 
 in all conscience, if that be true, Mr. Presi- 
 dent, it shows as great a degree of fairness 
 on the part of the members composing this 
 Convention, as tliey themselves could ask. 
 Why need they fear, then, to come in and 
 present their case before this body ? Aye, 
 sir, they know too well, that there was fraud 
 in that election. They know [too well that 
 the law and the interpretation are against 
 tliem. They know, sir, that they can make a 
 much better case, when they go and sit down 
 together in the other end of the Capitol and 
 have their say, all to themselves. 
 
 Now let us look at the manner in wliich 
 they get admission into that body. Accord- 
 ing to the universal rule of parliamentary 
 proceedings in such cases, those having certi- 
 ates of election fair on their face, have prima ' 
 
 icie, the right to come in and take their seats. 
 
 hen the contesting parties come in as they 
 hink proper, and present their cases. This 
 - the regular mode of proceeding. But the 
 organization of the minority Convention was 
 all irregular. 
 
 Such an organization was never seen before ! 
 Besides those having certificates, some ten or 
 twelve persons, it is not kno^^'n how many, 
 came in. The whole of them present them- 
 selves without any roll call, to tell who or 
 what they are. They produce nothing to 
 show, authoritively on its facfe, that they have 
 come there as members of the Constitutional 
 Convention. Two or three daj's after their 
 temporary organization, some of them hand 
 in certain certificates. These certificates are 
 kept from the time they are handed in up to 
 the twenty-third of July, before they are 
 reported upon. 
 
 Then all kinds of cases were reported upon 
 in a mass — the cases of those who had certi- 
 cates, as well asjjthose who had none, of those 
 who were present, and of certain ones who 
 were absent, but whose certificates were mys- 
 teriously present. They report upon them 
 all promiscuously. Then promisculously vote 
 tliemselves in. They just vote themselves in 
 en masse ! Why, sir, if tlie whole town of 
 St. Paul had come in and asked to have been 
 admitted, and if they had been admitted by 
 that common vote, it would have been as 
 much in legal, parliamentary form, as is their 
 organization to-day. 
 
 But these gentlemen are so much opposed 
 to tricks ! Let us see how much they are 
 opposed to tricks. In the first place they 
 contemplated, they consulted together, and 
 planned an organization in this Hall, at mid- 
 night, ending Sunday the twelfth of July. 
 This was a thing proposed by those gentle- 
 men, who pretend to be so very honest, and 
 so much averse to trickery. We have the 
 fact from authority which they themselves 
 dare not deny, tliat they contemplated such 
 an organization ; and the members of this 
 body were right when they concluded that 
 such was their intention. When the propo- 
 sition was made to the members of this party, 
 to sign a paper pledging themselves to meet 
 at twelve o'clock on Monday, and organize 
 like men, they met this proposition with a 
 sneer, and took French leave of those who 
 offered it. Every sign and circumstance on 
 their part showed that there was something 
 behind the curtain, and every circumstance 
 since has shown that they had determined to 
 come in and organize at twelve at midnight. 
 It was conceded on all hands, that no hour 
 
304 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 4. 
 
 being " mentioned in the Enabling Act, the 
 " Convention had a right to organize at any 
 " hour of the day ; " and in the action that 
 we took, we merely said to them, "We will 
 "not take advantage of your absence, but we 
 " will see that you shall not take advantage of 
 "ours." The members of this Convention 
 had to depend upon themselves to prevent 
 and protect themselves from the trick which 
 the same party enacted once before in Ohio 
 by an organization at twelve o' clock at night, 
 when the present Governor of this Territory 
 was the leader of the Democratic party of 
 that State. Well, sir, when they saw that 
 there was vigilance and determination here, 
 they came up with all apparent fairness, and 
 proposed to sign a paper to organize at noon. 
 But this also, was by way of a trick, for they 
 got a few names from us ; and then getting 
 together again into consultation, they retained 
 it, and sent back an evasive resolution speci- 
 fying no hour whatever. This only aroused 
 still further the vigilance of the Republican 
 members. 
 
 These men also who are so shocked at the 
 idea of breaking the Sabbath, had a caucus 
 meeting on Sunday night. That caucus con- 
 tinued in session till near midnight, consulting 
 on schemes for the organization of this body. 
 The next morning they profess to have come 
 to a resolution in the matter, and send us a 
 copy of that resolution in which they con- 
 curred in the proposition of the Republicans 
 to organize at twelve o'clock, M. The clock 
 of this Hall was turned back some ten min- 
 utes or more, by their direction. The clock 
 being turned back, they rushed in here in a 
 body, tumultuously, seventeen minutes be- 
 fore the time, and by a trick, endeavored to 
 adjourn this body, and get away. Now I 
 have just one passage to read from the speech 
 of Ex-Governor Gorman, on this point, where 
 he is setting forth the honesty and fairness 
 and good intention of the Democracy in com- 
 ing into this Hall on that day — their very hon- 
 est intentions ! lie says : 
 
 " Having proceeded to this point, the intention 
 expressed in our caucus was, inasmuch as several 
 of our members had not come in, knowing that, 
 in consequence of the alarm, which had been 
 sounded throughout the Territory, calling on the 
 Republican Delegates to be here ; they were hero 
 armed cap-a-pie, and that, having slept upon their 
 arms they were expecting some great development. 
 
 If upon calling the roll, it resulted, as we expected, 
 that the Republicans had the majority, we in- 
 tended, &c." 
 
 Here, Mr. President, is a precious admis- 
 sion by the Ex-Governor, that they expected 
 they were in a minority. They knew this, in 
 their councils. They knew it very well, and 
 admitted and reported the fact to different 
 members of this body, that they were legally 
 in a minority, before coming into this IJall : 
 and still these gentlemen, so honest, so much 
 adverse to trickery, come in here and attempt 
 to seize upon the organization, and by a trick, 
 endeavored to coerce this Convention and 
 compel the majority to receive their dictation. 
 But they got frightened and run away instantly, 
 and felt themselves, no doubt, in an unenvia- 
 ble position. 
 
 It is, indeed, quite amusing to notice the 
 Ex-Governor, in four or five passages of this 
 speech, when he expatiates on their determi- 
 nation that they would pursue a course of 
 fairness; that they would not, under any 
 circumstances, proceed to violence. It re- 
 minds me of the efforts of a drunken man to 
 walk straight, the effort but exposing the 
 more the weakness he would conceal. So it 
 is with the Ex-Qovernor and his story. 
 
 Talk about honesty and fairness! Make 
 us believe in the honesty and fairness of these 
 men, knowing themselves in a minority, and 
 coming in here, and attempting to adjourn 
 this body, Avith less than forty members ; for 
 with all told, they had but forty-four ; wliilst 
 the Republicans proceeded to organize with 
 fifty-six. 
 
 — ^But, suppose they had the number to 
 make a quorum, if that adjournment fails 
 them, they are gone ; and if that is the only 
 hair on which they hang, it seems to me their 
 condition is rather precarious ; and hereupon 
 the ex-Governor very adroitly says, " Well, 
 " sir, we can give them some Parliamentary 
 " tactics, but we cannot put brains into their 
 " heads." 
 
 Here is an example of the honesty of men 
 refusing to submit to, the rule of the majority 
 and exulting to their own shame in their fee- 
 ble tactics and contemptible tricks. 
 
 But what was their motive for wishing to 
 adjourn? The ex-Governor tells us they 
 were going to do this, and to do that. They 
 were going to have the roll called, and all 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tcesday, August 4. 
 
 305 
 
 having certificates should present them, and 
 the thing was to be gone through in parlia- 
 mentaiy order. Why did they not do it? 
 Another gentleman fells us, they wanted the 
 Convention to adjourn but for one day ; an- 
 other, for tlu-ee days ; and another, till their 
 members could get in; and then, judging 
 from their actions, they wanted us to adjourn 
 for about two weeks — and actions speak 
 louder than words. 
 
 A glance at the speech of one more gentle- 
 man in that body, and then I am done ; and 
 that is, the speech of the President of their 
 Convention. The President of that body is 
 well knovm in the Territory, and he has main- 
 tained a character for integrity and honor that 
 has been quite equal to that of any gentleman 
 there. But the speech, I must say, falls fiir 
 short of what might be expected from such a 
 som-ce. He accuses us, to commence with, 
 of gross incivility. I read from his speech 
 the following : 
 
 " Sir, it strikes us, that never has a deliberative 
 body evinced so great a want of civility — I might 
 say of common decency — towards a portion, and a 
 large portion of its members, as the body occupy- 
 ing the opposite end of the Capitol, taking their 
 own account of their proceedings." 
 
 This is a pretty broad assertion, that the 
 members of this body are not merely uncivil, 
 but actually indecent. But let us see in what 
 respect ? He endeavors to point out some of 
 the grievances he has to complain of, as fol- 
 lows: 
 
 "Well, sir, what did I find here on my arrival 
 in this city on that Monday morning? I found a 
 body of men in possession of the Hall of the 
 House of Representatives, who are said to have 
 occupied it — and they do not deny it — since mid- 
 night, as they were fearful of some danger, some 
 violence, if they did not remain at their posts, and 
 retain possession vi et armis of the Hall." 
 
 Mr, President, I take it upon myself to 
 say that this allegation, come from what source 
 it may, is wholly imauthomed and imfounded; 
 and if the gentleman did not know that it was 
 not true, he ought to have known it. He had 
 been often enough informed in the case to 
 know fully, that this Hall was not taken pos- 
 session of at midnight, nor at any other hoiur 
 of the night. He continues : 
 
 "This, sir, is in perfect keeping with the revolu- 
 tionary state of things which has manifested itself 
 in the Republican ranks for the last two years. 
 The Democratic members of the Convention resort 
 
 39 
 
 to violent proceedings for the sake of controlling 
 the organization of that body ! ! I have too much 
 respect for the members before me to believe for a 
 moment, that any gentleman would think of pur- 
 suing any such course towards other members of 
 the same body." 
 
 In regard to that, Mr. Pbesidext, with the 
 well known facts before this Convention, and 
 the other Convention, or the Democratic cau- 
 cus; with the well known facts before the 
 people of this city, I have simply to say, that 
 their denial by tliis gentleman is simply ab- 
 surd — a denial that can amount to nothing in 
 the face of facts so weU understood. He says 
 further : 
 
 " Xo, sir ; from the beginning, their whole course 
 has been in accordance with the precedents and or- 
 der." 
 
 I think, on the contrary, that every step of 
 these men has been without precedent and 
 against order. He says : 
 
 " AiSTien they went into that Convention, know- 
 ing that several Democratic members were absent, 
 they desired to adjourn, but if theyhadbeen voted 
 down, unjust as I should have considered the con- 
 duct of the opposition, I for one should have sub- 
 mitted." 
 
 Unjust ! to have voted against an adjourn- 
 ment, when more than ninety members were 
 in attendance here ! Was»it unjust for us to 
 proceed on the day of our assembling,- to the 
 discharge of public duties, because certain 
 members from the other side of Red river 
 had not arrived ? Was it unjust that ninety 
 delegates here should proceed to do their oiuty, 
 like men, instead of running away, like boys ? 
 I should be ashamed of the citizens of this 
 Territory, if they had not a more correct 
 sense of public duty, than to consider it un- 
 just in us, to stay here and do as we did, in- 
 stead of running away after the Democracy. 
 
 Mr. Sibley next comes to the resolutions 
 offered by the President of this body, and re- 
 marks on them as follows : 
 
 " The gentleman who presides over that body, 
 (Mr. Balcombe,) for whom — although I have very 
 little personal acquaintance with him — I have 
 hitherto entertained much respect, has distinctly 
 announced, in a resolution which he brought before 
 that body, on Saturday last, that the Democratic 
 party, so far as they are identified with this body, 
 are opposed to the admission of Minnesota into the 
 Union as a State, and that the object of our course 
 has been to protract indefinitely, the time in which 
 w« shall be admittgd as a State into the Confedera- 
 cy. Now, sir, I say here, that I do not see how 
 any man having any decent regard for truth, with 
 
306 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wed nesda'y, August 5. 
 
 the facts before his eyes, could make that asser- 
 tion. I stand here to-day to asseverate that there 
 is not a man in this Convention, and there is not a 
 man, to my knowledge, in the Democratic party, 
 here or elsewhere — who is not in favor of the im- 
 mediate admission of Minnesota into the Union, as 
 a State. And I will refer gentlemen to the fact, 
 that the Enabling Act was brought forward by a 
 Democratic Delegate in Congress, supported by 
 Democratic members, and that to the leaders of 
 the Democratic party in Congress are we mainly 
 indebted for the initiatory steps for our admission 
 into the Union. This is a fact which the public re- 
 cord shows. It is a fact which will not be denied) 
 and cannot be denied." 
 
 I have only to remark upon this, that the 
 gentleman perfectly well miderstands another 
 fact — a fact that is well known to the country, 
 that the opposition in Congress to the Ena- 
 bling Act, was Democratic opposition — oppo- 
 sition that came within an ace of defeating it, 
 and for a time held it in suspense. It was 
 held back in the Senate of the United States 
 for a Know Nothing amendment, which was 
 proposed and advocated by Democratic Sena- 
 tors, and adopted by their votes, which would 
 have carried the bill over, if John P. Hale, 
 of New Hampshire, had not seen the trick, 
 and changed his vote so as to move to have it 
 re-considered, and then gone to Northern 
 Democrats and rallied them in support of it. 
 Still many Democrats were against it, though 
 most of the Northern Democrats were for it. 
 Governor Seward, and other distinguished 
 Republicans were consulted, and it is univer- 
 sally admitted that to John P. Hale, is due 
 the credit of discovering the trick and defeat- 
 ing the Democratic-Know-Nothing opposition 
 to the bill, the entire Republican force of the 
 Senate voting for its passage. 
 
 It was agreed that the Republicans were 
 to keep quiet, while the Democrats fought the 
 battle. The RepubUcan Senators — fourteen 
 in number — sat there, all for the bill, whilst 
 the opposition were divided. I ask, then, if 
 it is just to claim the glory of its passage for 
 the Democracy ? In the House of Represen- 
 tatives it was mainly indebted for its passage 
 to the support of the Republican members 
 led on by Mr, Grow, who reported the bill. 
 
 In regard to the gentleman's astonishment 
 at the allegation of the resolutions, I will 
 briefly refer to some of the evidence upon 
 which it might be predicated. The editor of 
 the St. Anthony ExpresSy who is one of then- 
 
 own party, openly declares in the streets — 
 " Minnesota shall not come mto the Union 
 " now, unless she comes in Democratic." 
 " What ! are you not going to let the majority 
 " rule ?" " No !" he says, " if it is going to 
 " put power into the hands of fanatics — and 
 "the Republicans are fanatics." We have 
 also evidence to the same effect from a hi^er 
 source than the other end of the Capitol — a 
 source that they themselves will regard as 
 good authority. It comes from St. Peter, 
 and St. Peter is almost as good authori- 
 ty as St. Paul. It is a resolution in the pro- 
 ceedings of a Democratic meeting pubhshed 
 in the Pioneer and Democrat of to-day, and 
 is as follows : 
 
 liesolved, That we cordially approve of the stand 
 against fraud and injustice which the Democratic 
 delegation have made, and that we exhort them to 
 adhere to their position at all hazards, preferring 
 rather that we remain as a Territory, than that the 
 odious features of modern Republicanism shall be 
 thrust upon us in in our fundamental law against 
 the expressed will of the people." 
 
 Such, Mr. President, is the language of 
 their own organs and their own men ; and 
 hence there is no occasion for the surprise of 
 the President of the minority body, that the 
 people should believe it is their intention, by 
 their present course of conduct, to defeat the 
 admission of Minnesota into the Union at 
 this time. 
 
 It shows that the President of this Con- 
 vention, when he drew those resolutions, was 
 able to see what was working in the minds of 
 the Democratic leaders — a thing they would 
 like to conceal, but which is published openly 
 elsewhere, and the organ in this city has not 
 sagacity enough to see how it exposes them. 
 
 The gentleman refers to the Pembina case, 
 and says : 
 
 "Now, sir, I cannot conceive how, with any 
 regard to justice or precedent, that body of Repub- 
 licans could over have taken the position, that the 
 Pembina delegation were to be excluded from the 
 Convention. 
 
 I am as much surprised at that, sir, as at 
 any other thing in the whole speech ; and it 
 the more surprises me, because that gentle- 
 man has so recently changed front upon that 
 question. This change must have come 
 over him since this Convention organized. 
 I say so, because I can hardly think it prob- 
 able that he could have changed his opinion 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wxdsesdat, Acgcst 5. 
 
 307 
 
 so suddenly before he came to this place; 
 for I had occasion to know, but a few days 
 before he came here, from his own lips, tiiat 
 his opinion then was the very reverse of 
 that I have read. I confess, it is wholly inex- 
 plicable to me, that the gentleman should 
 express his astonishment, that any person 
 shall think just as he thought, less than a 
 week before. 
 
 I do not like, Mr. Pbesidext, in these 
 remarks, to call in question the statements 
 of any gentleman of that body. I do not 
 like to be placed imder the necessity of con- 
 tradicting any man. But when these gentle- 
 men take it upon themselves to accuse every 
 member of this Convention with a want of 
 courtesy, and everything that characterizes 
 the gentleman, they must not complain if we 
 take the trouble to contradict them, when we 
 know them to be in the wrong. I do not like 
 to charge dishonesty upon any man. I would 
 gladly think it all a mistake. But there is too 
 sad a prochvity to mistake around us. I 
 will say then, that the examples before us 
 show what power there is in a bad cause to 
 make men change front and position, and to 
 assert things Vhich they would not do for their 
 lives under ordinary circumstances. I really 
 hope we shall never be so imfortunate as to 
 get into such a position as to allow those 
 influences to have such an effect upon us. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move to lay the 
 resolutions upon the table. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. FOSTER, (at 
 five o'clock and ten minutes) the Conventiwi 
 adjourned. 
 
 TWENTY-FIRST DAY. 
 
 "Wedsesday, August 5th, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. m. 
 Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. E. D. Neill. 
 The journal of yesterday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 REPOKTS. 
 
 Mr. HOLLEY from the committee on 
 Amendments and Revision of the Constitu- 
 tion made the following report, which was 
 read a first and second time, and laid upon 
 the table to be printed, viz : 
 
 " Skctiox 1. The Legislature may, by a vote 
 of two-thirds of the members of either branch, 
 
 propose amendments to this Constitution, which 
 proposed amendments tiiall be published in at 
 least one newspaper in each county of the State, 
 where a newspaper is published, for three months 
 preceding the next election for Representatives to 
 the Assembly, and at such election shall be sub- 
 mitted to the people for their approval or rejec- 
 tion ; and if a majority of the votes cast at such 
 election for, and agaiqst, be in favor of such amend- 
 ments, they shall become part of this Constitution. 
 When more than one amendment shall be sub- 
 mitted at the same election, they shall be voted 
 upon separately. 
 
 "Sec. 2. Whenever two-thirds of the members 
 of both branches of the Legislature shall deem it 
 expedient to revise this Constitution, they may 
 call a Convention for that purpose, making by law 
 all needful provisions relative to the same. 
 
 "Sec. 3. At the regular election for Repre- 
 sentatives, in the year 1870, and every twenty 
 years thereafter, the question "Shall the Consti- 
 tution be revised?" shall be submitted to the peo- 
 ple, and if at such election a majority of the votes 
 cast, for and against such proposition, shall be in 
 favor of revision, it shall be the duty of the Leg- 
 islature to make the necessary laws providing for 
 the assembling of such Convention." 
 
 Mr. MANTOR from the committee on En 
 grossment reported back report No. 12, on 
 State OflBcers other than Executive, as cor- 
 rectiy engrossed. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM from the same committee 
 reported back as correctly engrossed, report 
 No. 8, on the Legislative Department 
 
 BANKIXG, 4C. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN from the committee on 
 Banking and Corporations, other than Mimi- 
 cipal, to whom was recommitted report, No. 
 5, made a report, recommending the follow- 
 ing amedments to the report : 
 
 " Amend section one, by adding thereto the 
 words ' nor shall any such law take effect until 
 the same shall have been submitted to a vote of 
 the people at some general election and shall have 
 been approved by a majority of all the votes cast 
 on that subject, at such election.' 
 
 " Amend section two by inserting in the third 
 line after the word ' require' and before the word 
 ' security' the words ' ample collateral' and strik 
 ing out all between the words ' Treasurer' in the 
 fifth line and the word ' and' in the eleventh line.' 
 
 " Amend by striking out section four. 
 
 " Amend section seven by substituting the word 
 or' for the word 'and' in the second line." 
 (For original report No. 5, see proceedings of 
 
 July twenty -fourth.) 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would enquire what 
 course that report would take under our 
 rules ? 
 
308 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 5. 
 
 The PRESIDENT.. According to usual 
 parliamentary rules, the report will have to be 
 considered in committee of the Whole, and 
 the amendments then acted on. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Must the report be laid 
 ever and printed under the rule ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It need not be, it is 
 in order to move to refer it to the committee 
 of the Whole. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I make that motion. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I now move that the Con- 
 vention now resolve itself into the committee 
 of the Whole upon the report upon Banking 
 and Corporations, other than Municipal. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I hope we shall not go 
 into committee upon that subject to-day, but 
 that we shaU have the amendments printed, 
 so that every member of the Convention may 
 look at the amendments recommended by the 
 committee. 
 
 Mr. BATES. These amendments are not 
 very lengthy. There is only one additional 
 clause recommended, and the balance of the 
 report are recommendations to strike out 
 what already exists in the report. It is not 
 worth while to have the report printed. That 
 will cause unnecessary delay. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I think there will be no 
 difficulty in understanding the report. The 
 amendments recommended are very simple, 
 and it does not seem to me worth while to 
 have them printed. I hope the Convention 
 will go into committee. 
 
 The motion of Mr. Bates was agreed to, 
 and the Convention accordingly resolved itself 
 into committee of the Whole, (Mr. Stan- 
 NARD in the Chair) on the report on Bank- 
 ing and Corporations, other than Municipal. 
 
 Section one was read as follows : 
 
 " Corporations for Banking purposes, with the 
 necessary powers and privileges may be formed 
 under general laws, but shall not be created by 
 special enactment." 
 
 The first amendment recommended by the 
 committee was to add to section one the fol- 
 lowuig : 
 
 "Nor shall any such law take efl'cct until the 
 same shall have been submitted to a vote of the 
 people at some general election, and shall have 
 been approved by a majority of the votes cast on 
 that subject at such election." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move that section one, 
 with the amendment recommended by the 
 
 Standmg Committee be adopted by this com- 
 mittee. 
 
 Mr. THOMPSON. We are in committee 
 of the Whole and acting upon the report of 
 the' Standing committee, and the'proper mo- 
 tion would be that the committee rise and 
 report back the report with a recommenda- 
 tion that the amiendments be adopted. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. That was not the nature 
 of my motion at all. 
 
 Mr. THOMPSON. Then I misunderstood 
 the gentleman. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I wish to have the report 
 open to discussion on each section. This re- 
 port has never been discussed to any consid- 
 erable extent in this committee. The only 
 provision which came before the committee, 
 when it was mider consideration before, was 
 the second section. After a slight discussion 
 upon that, the committee rose and the report 
 was recommitted. My motion was that the 
 committee now take action upon the first sec- 
 tion, and the recommendation of the standing 
 committee to amend it, and that the amend- 
 ment be concurred in by this committee. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair understands 
 that if this special report of the standing 
 committee was accepted by the Convention, 
 the amendments proposed by the standing 
 committee become part of the bill and sub- 
 ject to amendment, and debate as an original 
 bill. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Has the report been ac- 
 cepted ? 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The chair does not 
 know how it could have got upon the general 
 orders, unless it was accepted by the Con- 
 vention. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The only action upon it 
 was to refer it to this Committee of the 
 Whole. 
 
 Mr. THOMPSON. I supposed that when 
 the Chairman made the report, and it was 
 accepted by the Convention, it would occupy 
 the same position in the committee of the 
 Whole that the original report did, and that 
 by a motion that the committee rise and 
 report the report back with a recommendation 
 that it do pass, we adopt the amendments 
 recommended. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. There was no motion 
 made to accept thjit report, nor do I under- 
 stand that it is necessary when a report is 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES—Wedxksdat, August 5. 
 
 309 
 
 made to the Convention, that a motion should 
 be made to accept it. If the Convention 
 receive the report and refer it in any manner, 
 that is equivalent to accepting it. Thou^ 
 not formally accepted, I think the Convention 
 did accept it by referring it. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The opinion of the 
 Chair is that this report could not have been 
 upon the general order, and referred to the 
 committee of the Whole, without virtually 
 having been accepted by the Convention. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. It was specially referred. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is now, for 
 the first time, informed by the Secretary that 
 it was by a special motion that this report 
 was referred to the commaittee of the Whole. 
 If such is the case, the report stands in a 
 different position from what it would have 
 occupied imder ordinary circumstances, and 
 it ii before the committee for their specific 
 action. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I hope that the com- 
 mittee will not rise at present, but that it will 
 take time to investigate this subject, and 
 thoroughly discuss the many important fea- 
 tures connected with it. The committee of 
 :'•" Whole is the proper place for offering 
 > cuendments and for general consultation over 
 the subject matter. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would inquire if the 
 motion I made was in order? 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. It was, and is now 
 before the committee. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The standing committee 
 upon Banking, to which this matter was 
 re-committed, after considering the subject in 
 all its lights, have come to the conclusion to 
 change somewhat the report and the policy to 
 be pursued by this Convention, so &r as 
 their recommendation goes, upon the subject 
 of Banking. The report, as it ori^nally 
 stood, provided merely that corporations for 
 banking purposes, might be formed under 
 general laws, and that they should not be 
 created by special enactment ; and then pro- 
 vided what should be the basis of those laws, 
 without providing that the banking law should 
 be submitted to a vote of the people for their 
 approval. And Mr. Chatrmax, the reason 
 that was urged for pui^uing that course was 
 this : The committee were unanimously of 
 opinion that the people of the proposed State 
 of Minnesota were desirous of having bank- 
 
 ing corporations established, and that they 
 were desirous of having them established im- 
 mediately, without any unnecessary delay 
 but at the same time that they would inquire 
 imperatively that that system should be 
 guarded in the strongest manner. They 
 therefore at first proposed to the Convention, 
 that the L^islature should have power to 
 pass a general banking law, and that they 
 should be required imder the provisions of 
 that law, to provide for the registration and 
 countersigning of bills, and to provide for the 
 security of those bills in a certain specific 
 manner, ^ that the people looking upon the 
 provision of the Constitution, should be able 
 to see that the Legislature had it not in their 
 power to give them a wild-cat system. 
 
 The benefit to be derived fixim that plan 
 was, that there woxild be no unnecessary 
 delay. The first Legislature might pass a 
 banking law, and banks might be instituted 
 immediately \^thout waiting for a popular 
 vote. But upon a reconsideration of the mat- 
 ter, the Committee, as I said before, deter- 
 mined to alter their plan, and to provide that 
 while corporations for banking purposes might 
 be formed by general laws, and not otherwise, 
 yet that these general laws should not go into 
 effect until they had been submitted to a 
 direct vote of the people, and then only upon 
 their being approved by a majority of the 
 votes cast upon that subject. And at the 
 same time, as the people were to have the 
 right to pass upon the banking laws, your 
 committee concluded to change the policy in 
 r^ard to requiring a specific security to be 
 ^en, and to substitute in the place of the 
 specific security provided for in the first 
 report, that there should be ample collateral 
 security required, — leaving it for the Legisla- 
 ture, in the first place to provide what, in 
 their wisdom, would be ample collateral secu 
 rity, and then leaving it for the people to de- 
 termine whether or not the Legislature had 
 provided what they were willing themselve.*!, 
 to consider ample security. 
 
 For one, I was not particulariy in fiiver of 
 the change. I acquiesced in it however, and 
 have no great objection to it, because it is left 
 with the people to determine whether or not 
 the Legislature have complied with the re- 
 quirements of the proposed section second, 
 and have giv^i them ample security. I 
 
310 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES- Wednesday, August 5. 
 
 would not take back one word I said the 
 other day, in committee, in regard to the 
 most stringent rules being adopted upon the 
 subject of banking. But takbg the ground 
 that the people can determine that matter for 
 themselves, I hope the recommendation of 
 the committee upon Banking, in respect to 
 section one particularly, and in connection with 
 section two, will be adopted by this commit- 
 tee, and recommended to the Convention, 
 because I believe it will make a perfectly safe 
 system, and one which the people will approve 
 of and adopt as safe. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I woul4 enqmre 
 whether this is in effect the Wisconsin sys- 
 tem. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. It is not. There is this 
 difference — the Wisconsin system provides 
 that any Legislature may submit to the people 
 first, a proposition whether or not they wish 
 any banks ; and if a majority of the people 
 vote in favor of having banks, ^ that then the 
 Legislature may pass either a general banking 
 law, or they may grant special charters, but 
 that none of those laws or charters shall take 
 effect untU they have again been submitted to 
 a vote of the people — thus requiring two votes 
 of the people. We do not propose to submit 
 the question in the first place, whether the 
 people want banks, and in the second place 
 we do not propose to allow the Legislature to 
 grant special charters. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. As chairman of this 
 committee, it may be expected that I should 
 make some explanation of this matter, but as 
 the gentleman from St. Anthony has kindly 
 volimteered to relieve me from that duty, it 
 will only be necessary for me to express my 
 own views. I was not, I am not now, spec- 
 ially in favor of the amendment proposed to 
 section one. I did not however dissent from 
 the views of a majority of the committee. — 
 When this subject was before the committee 
 of the Whole before, I expressed myself 
 against submitting this question to a vote of 
 the people, and upon the ground that I am 
 satisfied that the people of the Territory are 
 desirous of a banking system. Still it was 
 thought by a majority of the committee that 
 it would be better, whatever law might be 
 passed by the Legislature, to submit it to the 
 people before it should go into effect. It was 
 thought that a law thus submitted to and ap- 
 
 proved by the people, would go into operation 
 in such a manner as to give greater confidence 
 to the people ; and not only to the people of 
 Minnesota, but to the people of other States, 
 and that the paper or currency issued under 
 that system \vould have a better credit. 
 
 I am not particular whether that amend- 
 ment be adopted or not. I have but little 
 feeling in regard to the matter. If that amend - 
 ment is adopted, the committee will see that 
 it will be necessary to change, to a considera- 
 ble extent, the following sections. It seems 
 to me proper that this committee should first 
 decide upon the proper amendment to section 
 one, because the balance of the report, as we 
 have proposed to amend it, is based upon the 
 amendment to the first section. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. In looking over the 
 different banking laws in the constitutions of 
 the different States, none have struck me so 
 forcibly as the Wisconsin system, and from 
 all I can learn of the workings of that sys- 
 tem, I am inclined to believe that it works as 
 well in practice as it appears in theory. And 
 here I would say that I think the committee 
 have done well in not recommending that we 
 should in the first place, submit to the people 
 the question whether they will have banks or 
 not. That seems to be, in the Wisconsin 
 system, a matter of surplusage. The Leg- 
 islature can, without submitting that question, 
 pass a general banking law, and then they 
 can submit the whole question at the same 
 time. In the bankmg law they can also de- 
 termine whether they are in favor of banks 
 or not, and whether the system devised by 
 the Legislature is a good one, and one that 
 will protect the bill-holders especLilly. It is 
 right that in the Constitution we should at 
 least give the Legislature power to create 
 banking corporations. But there should be 
 some safeguard, and that is secured by sub- 
 mitting the law to the people for ratification or 
 rejection. The good sense of the people, who 
 are directly interested in the matter, express- 
 ed through the ballot-box, will decide whether 
 the system is a good one or not. It is there 
 fore my opinion that the committee have hit 
 upon a good amendment, and I shall vote for 
 it cheerfully. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. 1 think that the first 
 section is a complete legislative provision, in 
 itself upon this subject of banking, and I 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wedkesdat, Augcst 5. 
 
 311 
 
 therefore move that all after the first section 
 be stricken out. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. The gentleman will ob- 
 serve by looking over the report, that some 
 portions of it refer to the other corporations 
 then banking, though the first section refers 
 only to banking corporations. I hope the 
 whole report will not be stricken out with 
 that exception, because if it is, it will cut ofi* 
 evei-j-thing but banking corporations. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The motion of tlie 
 gentleman from St. Anthony (Mr. Secombe,) 
 has preference. 
 
 The question was then taken, and tie 
 amendment to the first section was concurred 
 in. 
 
 "Sec. 2. If a general banking law shall be en- 
 acted, it shall provide for the registry and coun- 
 tersigning, by an oflBcer of State, of all bills or 
 paper credit, designed to circulate as money, and 
 require security to the full amount thereof, to be 
 deposited with the State Treasurer, in United 
 States Stocks, or in interest paying stocks of States 
 in good credit and standing, to be rated at ten per 
 cent, below their average value in the City of New 
 York, for the thirty days next preceeding their 
 deposit ; and in case of a depreciation of any por- 
 tion of snch stocks, to the amount of ten per cent, 
 on the dollar, the bank or banks owning said stocks, 
 shall be required to make up such deficiency by de- 
 positing additional stocks ; and said laws shall also 
 provide for the recording of the names of all stock- 
 holders in such corporations, the amount of stock 
 held by each, the time of transfer, and to whom." 
 
 The recommendation of the committee is 
 to amend section two so that it shall read as 
 follows : 
 
 "Sec. 2. If a general banking law shall be en- 
 acted, it shall provide for the registry and coun- 
 tersigning, by an oflScer of State, of all bills or 
 paper credit, designed to circulate as money, and 
 require ample collateral security to the full amount 
 thereof, to be deposited with the State Treasurer : 
 and said law shall also provide for the recording of 
 the names of all stockholders in such corporations, 
 the amouut of stock held by each, the time of 
 transfer, and to whom." 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I move to strike out 
 the^ whole of section two. I make the motion 
 for the reason that in the first section we pro- 
 pose that a general banking law shall be 
 formed by the Legislature, and submitted to 
 the people, and then in this second section we 
 attempt to dictate to a great extent, what that 
 law shall be. That, I think, is unnecessary. 
 If we are going to leave this matter to the 
 Legislature and to the people, let us leave the 
 
 whole of it, in all its minutia, to the Legisla- 
 ture, and to the people. The subject con- 
 tained in the second section may be the very 
 one upon which the people will be diTrided ; 
 it may be the very one upon which there may 
 be a division of feeling, sentiment and action, 
 and the people will desire to have a voice in 
 that matter. We ought not to attempt to 
 fi:tune a part of a banking law, and leave the 
 other parts to the Legislature and the people. 
 
 I therefore hope section four will be stricken 
 out. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I beheve my motion, 
 which I have modified so as to include only 
 sections two, three, four and five, is first in 
 order. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The first question is 
 upon the motion to strike out those sections. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the motion will not 
 prevail. The gentleman firom Winona is vrill- 
 ing to leave the whole matter to the Legisla- 
 ture and the people. Well, Mr. Chaibman, 
 he might as well say that he is willing to leave 
 the whole matter without any restriction 
 whatever — even without the first section — to 
 the Legislature and the people. 
 
 Mr. BALCOlklBE. That is the whole sub- 
 ject matter. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Very true, but without 
 any provision whatever in the Constitution, I 
 think the Legislature would have the right to 
 grant banking charters, and charters for 
 other corporations, and we might say we 
 would leave the whole matter to the people, 
 because the people are going to approve 
 of the action of the Legislature, and if they 
 do not want banks, or if they do want 
 banks, they will choose Representatives who 
 will or will not incorporate them. Now I 
 believe the people want banks, but they 
 want safe and secure banks, and that we 
 ought not to leave it to the Legislature so 
 that they may go to work at their first session 
 and pass a general law that in all human proba- 
 bility will be unacceptable to the people. If the 
 matter is left simply upon section one, the 
 first, second, and every subsequent Leg- 
 islature may pass a law which will be voted 
 down every time by the people ; and the ten- 
 dency will be to their doing that very thing. I 
 am not one of those gentlemen who believe in 
 the total depravity of Legislators, but it has 
 been very well said in this Convention, and in 
 
812 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 6. 
 
 this committee, that the Legislature is liable to 
 to be influenced, and it is very well known that 
 the Legislature of this Territory has been so in- 
 fluenced. It is well known that our Territory 
 has been covered over with charters of every 
 kind and description. Now I am not willing 
 to leave it for a future Legislature to keep the 
 people out of a good and safe banking system 
 by having it in their power to submit to the 
 people every year a wild cat concern, and no 
 other. I want the Legislature bound to make 
 a safe banking law, and one which in the 
 opinion of this Convention, will be acceptable 
 to the people. 
 
 The provisions of section second are very 
 simple. There are merely three requirements 
 which will be binding upon the Legislature. 
 The first is, that they shall provide for the 
 registry and countersigning of bills by an 
 ofiScer of the State. Now is there any gen- 
 tleman in this Convention who supposes for a 
 moment, that the people will not require that 
 those bills shall be registered and counter- 
 signed ? The next provision is, that the Leg- 
 islature shall require ample collateral security 
 for the bills which may be put afloat. Is 
 there any gentleman in this committee who 
 supposes that the people will not require that ? 
 The third provision is, that the names of the 
 stockholders, the amount of stock held by 
 each, the time of transfer, and to whom, shall 
 be recorded. Is there anything imreasonable 
 in that proposition, which the people of the 
 proposed State will not require ? It seems to 
 me not. Then if there are propositions which 
 no gentlemen here will object to, which no 
 gentleman here would claim that the people 
 would object to, but on the other hand 
 require, I say it is right and fair to the people 
 of the [proposed State who wish banks, to 
 leave it in the power of the Legislature to 
 send out to them every year a law which, in 
 all probability, will be refused, and thus de- 
 prive them of banks ? — for that is the only 
 way in which they can get them ? They can 
 grant no special charters, but only pass a 
 general banking law. At the same time it 
 leaves it to the Legislature in their wisdom, 
 subject to a ratification by the people, to pro- 
 vide this system, and what security shall be 
 considered ainple. The other provisions of 
 section two we propose to strike out. 
 Section throe provides that no law shall be 
 
 passed, sanctioning in any manner, directly 
 or indirectly, the suspension of special pay- 
 ment, by any corporation issuing bank notes 
 of any description. Now is there any proba- 
 bility that any respectable portion of the 
 people of the State of Minnesota would object 
 to that provision ? or that they would not 
 absolutely require such a provision, as well 
 as the provisions of section five ? 
 
 Now I hope we shall show to the people of 
 Minnesota that we are not going to allow the 
 Legislature to pass charters, and pass general 
 laws for wild cat concerns, such as have flood- 
 ed the Western world. I hope the idea is 
 not to be sent out to the people, that the first 
 Legislature will be allowed to flood this State 
 with swindling concerns — because under the 
 first section, without further restrictions, the 
 Legislature can pass a banking law, and get 
 the people thereafter to favor it, which may 
 operate greatly to the detriment of the people 
 of the State of Minnesota. I am opposed 
 to that, and I hope the recommendation of 
 the committee will be adopted. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. The gentleman from 
 St. Anthony is disposed to beg the question. 
 He takes it for granted, if tliis subject is left 
 at the disposal of the Legislature, that as a 
 matter of course, a banking system will be 
 presented to the people which will partake of 
 the nature of the wild-cat system. At the 
 same time he contradicts himself, by saying 
 that it is the undoubted wish of the people, 
 that the restriction which he proposes to put 
 into the Constitution, should be put upon 
 banking corporations, and at the same moment 
 he asserts that in all human probability there 
 is not a gentleman upon tliis floor who is not 
 in favor of the restrictions. Now if every 
 gentlemon upon this floor is in favor of those 
 restrictions, and the people are in favor of 
 them, I would ask whether it is not reason- 
 able to suppose that the first Legislature 
 would insert those restrictions in any law they 
 might frame upon the subject? Is it not 
 liighly fprobable 'i I am disposed to believe 
 that you could not elect a Legislature in this 
 proposed State, wliich would not impose most 
 of those restrictions upon banking corpora- 
 tions in a general banking law. Were I in 
 the Legislature, passing upon this subject, I 
 should certainly insist upon the restrictions 
 wluch are contained in tliis section as pro- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wedxesdat, Avqvst 5. 
 
 313 
 
 posed to be amended by the committee, and 
 I believe- the people would demand it. At 
 the same time I believe there is a minority, 
 and perhaps a respectable minority in the 
 Territory, which would oppose many of those 
 restrictions. 
 
 But, sir, my principal [objection to this 
 matter is this : If we are going to establish 
 any part of a banking system in the Coflsti- 
 tution, let us go the whole length, and make 
 it a complete system ; let us go into the minu- 
 tia, and not do business upon a half-way 
 system. The gentleman takes it for granted, 
 in his argument, that the Legislature will 
 frame some wild-cat system which will be 
 rejected by the people. I do not suppose any 
 such thing. I believe the people will feel the 
 necessity of having banks, and that they will 
 make it incumbent upon the Legislature to 
 recommend such a system as they them- 
 selves will adopt ; and that no Legislature in 
 our State will dare to recommend any other, 
 after the example we have had in the States 
 of Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa and other States. 
 I take it for granted that there is a general 
 disposition to adopt the present banking sys- 
 tem of "Wisconsin, and I believe our first Le- 
 gislature would recommend that system sub- 
 stantially, and would not dare to do other- 
 wise. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I hope the motion of my 
 colleague will not prevail. So far as the 
 second section is concerned, I do not know 
 that there is any particular objection to stri- 
 king it out. I have no particular feeling in 
 regard to it, but the third section should be 
 retained in the Constitution. It provides 
 that no law shall be passed sanctioning, in 
 any manner, directly or indirectly, the sus- 
 pension of specie payment by any corporation 
 issuing bank notes of any description. It 
 seems to me that such a provision should be 
 in the Constitution, where it cannot be re- 
 pealed. If it were only incorporated into a 
 general banking law passed by the Legislature 
 it might be repealed, if suflBcient influence 
 could be brought to bear upon the Legisla- 
 ture, without arousing suspicion. It might 
 be repealed without the general [attention of 
 the Legislatmre being called to it. It seems 
 to me that no law sanctioning a suspension 
 of specie payment should ever be passed, and 
 it certainly can do no harm to retain this 
 40 
 
 section in the Constitution, and then there 
 will be no danger of any attempt being made 
 in the Le^slature to pass any such law. Such 
 a clause would commend itself to the minds 
 of the people, and even if the Legislature 
 should violate it. the people would then have 
 a veto power upon the action of the Legisla- 
 ture. This would also serve as a guide to 
 the Legislatxire in passing a general law, 
 although I do not doubt that almost any legis- 
 lative body would incorporate such a provis- 
 ion into any system. There is nothing in 
 that section which the people will disagree 
 upon. 
 
 That part of the second section which has 
 been stricken out, would xmdobtedly have 
 caused a great diversity of opinion and feel- 
 ing, and it would have been impossible to 
 unite the feelings of the public upon those 
 provisions. Therefore it was weU to strike it 
 out. I think the remainder might be retained, 
 and I feel anxious that it should be. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I hope the second section 
 will be stricken out. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. The motion is to strike 
 out section two, three, four, and five. I call 
 for a divison of the question. 
 
 Mr. BALCOilBE. A division of the ques- 
 tion will bring the Convention to a vote first 
 upon striking out section two. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I am opposed to incorpo- 
 rating section two into the Constitution, and 
 I think the other sections might as well be 
 stricken out too. I am opposed to section 
 two, in the first place, because it is matter of 
 legislation. I am opposed to any species of 
 legislation being incorporated into the Consti- 
 tution. The objection is just as good now as 
 it was at the commencement of our session, 
 when so much was laid upon that subject. 
 The practice should be discarded and dis- 
 countenanced. In my opinion the Legisla- 
 tures of the country, and especially that of 
 Minnesota, are the best abused bodies now in 
 existence. I should come to the conclusion, 
 judging firom what has been said upon this 
 floor, that our Legislators are a band of con- 
 spirators to rob the treasury, and crush out 
 the liberties of the people. Such seems to be 
 the opinion of many gentleman here, and if I 
 were of their opinion I should be in favor of 
 incorporating into the Constitution a provision 
 declaring that a Legislature should never exist 
 
314 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 5. 
 
 in the State of Minnesota; that all laws should 
 be framed by this Convention and be contained 
 in this Constitution. I do not, however, look 
 upon the Legislature in that light. I look 
 upon a Legislature generally, as being just as 
 honest a body of men as this Convention, and 
 no more desirous of thwarting the good inter- 
 ests and welfare of the people. T am of 
 opinion that if this matter is left to the Legis- 
 lature under one general article, that the rights 
 and liberties of the people will be just as 
 much respected and guarded as they will be 
 by this Convention. I know there is such a 
 thing as corruption creeping into legislative 
 bodies. The experience of the past shows 
 that And I know too that selfishness and 
 corruption creeps into all bodies. I do not 
 think the Legislature is the worst body that 
 ever existed. 
 
 Then I say it is not an argument in favor of 
 this legislation being introduced into the Con- 
 stitution, that legislators are sometimes un- 
 willing to deal fairly with the people. I claim 
 that the Constitution, notwithstanding that 
 objection, should declare only fundamental 
 principles, and that those matters which be- 
 long properly to the Legislature, should be 
 referred to them. If I understand the gen- 
 tleman from St. Anthony, (Mr. Secombe,) he 
 said that though the people were anxious for 
 a bankmg law, yet, if this section was stricken 
 out, the Legislature might defeat the will of 
 the people. I have no doubt but that is the 
 case. But if the Legislature have any desire 
 to defeat the will of the people in this respect, 
 they can do it under the report as it now 
 stands, as well as they could if all were all 
 stricken out but the first section. I do not 
 understand that this article makes it impera- 
 tive upon the Legislature to pass a banking 
 law. The first section declares that they may 
 do so, and the second section says, " if agen- 
 " eral banking law shall be enacted," implying 
 that it is the discretion of the Legislature to 
 enact, or refuse to enact such a law. They 
 may, by refusing to act on the subject, defeat 
 the will of the people just as well as they can, 
 by throwbg before the people, year after 
 year, general banking laws which may and 
 will be refused by the people. 
 
 It seems to me, too, that the gentleman 
 from St. Anthony betrays a great lack of 
 confidence in the wisdom of the people in this 
 
 regard. It seems to me that if the Legisla- 
 ture pass a law and submit it to the people, 
 and the people themselves adopt it, no fault 
 can be found either with the Legislature or 
 the people themselves. I apprehend that 
 when a law is submitted to the people of the 
 State they will be wise enough to know how 
 to vote upon it ; and know what is their best 
 interest at the time, and what they require. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. The Wisconsin system 
 of banking is now looked upon as the best 
 system in this country. It is tJte system, in 
 my estimation, and I believe it has become so 
 in the general estimation of the people, and it 
 is the system which will eventually be adopt- 
 ed in the State of Minnesota. That system 
 was recommended by the Legislature, and 
 adopted by the people. It was recommended 
 by the Legislature, under the following section 
 of their Constitution : 
 
 " The Legislature may submit to the voters at 
 any general election, the question of * Bank or no 
 Bank ; ' and if at any such election, a number of 
 votes equal to a majority of all the votes cast at 
 such election on that subject, shall be in favor of 
 Banks, then the Legislature shall have power to 
 grant Bank Charters, or to pass a general banking 
 law, with such restrictions and under such regula- 
 tions as they may deem expedient and proper for 
 the security of the bill-holders ; 
 
 " Provided, That no such grant or law shall have 
 any force or effect until the same shall have been 
 aubmitted to a vote of the electors of the State at 
 some general election, and been [approved by a 
 majority of the votes cast on that subject at such 
 election." 
 
 There, the Legislature had the choice either 
 to grant special charters or pass a general 
 banking law. Now which did the Legislature 
 choose ? They passed a general banking law 
 and submitted it to the people. 
 
 Now I am disposed to leave this subject 
 just as the Wiscon.sin Constitutional Conven- 
 tion chose to leave it there, and I would be 
 willing to take the language of their Constitu- 
 tion and insert it, word for word, into our 
 Constitution and there drop the subject. As 
 the result of their course, they have the best 
 banking system in the United States. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I desire that this matter 
 may be thoroughly considered. The gentle- 
 man from Winona says I distrust the Legis- 
 lature and the people ; that I take it for a cer- 
 tainty, or a matter which is to be granted up- 
 on all hands, that the Legislature will pass a 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— "Wednesdat, August 5. 
 
 315 
 
 wild-cat system of banking. Now, Mr. 
 CnAiKMAX, I have no other guide for the fu- 
 ture than the past ; and I have lived too long 
 in the Territory of Minnesota, and observed 
 the workings of the Legislature of the Terri- 
 tory of Minnesota, to have any other feeling 
 in regard to that Legislature than a feeling of 
 distrust ; and I call the gentleman from Wi- 
 nona (Mr. Balcombe,) to bear me witness 
 that the past legislation of this Territory upon 
 the subject of corporations, will justify that 
 distrust. I have seen, and the gentleman 
 from Winona has seen, men elected to the 
 Legislature of this Territory upon the sole 
 ground of their opposition to a special incor- 
 poration in this Territory. Elected, I say, 
 solely to oppose it, there being no other ques- 
 tion in issue ; and when the time came that 
 they were to vote in the Legislature, they 
 wilted like grass before the scythe, and voted 
 against every principle, for which they were 
 elected to vote. I have seen, and the gentle- 
 man from Winona has seen, the public press 
 of this Territory that has spoken for years in 
 the strongest terms against a certain act of 
 incorporation in this Territory, and when the 
 moment of need came, those who had charge 
 of the press, deserted their posts, and left the 
 Temtory, and the voice of that press has 
 come out in opposition to the very thing they 
 had advocated for years. I have seen, and 
 the gentleman from Winona has seen, the ex- 
 ecutive oflScer of this Territory, who has a 
 part in legislation, after he has protested in 
 every shape possible, in all the language he 
 could command, against a certain act of in- 
 corporation and influences connected with it, 
 when the time has come for him to act in the 
 matter, get down upon his knees in the dust, 
 eat his own words, and show himself up as an 
 instance of the power which has been broiight 
 to bear upon the Legislature of the Territory 
 of Minnesota. 
 
 Now then, I say, in the light of these ex- 
 amples, it is the duty of this Convention, to 
 guard in tlie strongest terms against future 
 results similar to those which have occurred 
 in the past. 
 
 The gentleman from Rice covmty (Mr. Per- 
 kins,) also says, that I distrust the people. 
 I do not distrust the people as a general thing, 
 but in this particular instance I say that the 
 people may be forced by the Legislature to 
 
 act upon the principle that half a loaf is bet- 
 ter than no bread. I say that the people of 
 this Territory, being anxious for and desirous 
 of a banking system, may be called upon by 
 the Legislature, either to vote for that which 
 they themselves know is not safe, or to vote 
 against having any banks at all. 
 
 The influences which are brought to bear 
 upon Legislatures do not pervade, I hope, to 
 any fextent, this Convention. This Conven- 
 tion has not the power of granting charters 
 for banks, nor of passing banking laws. I 
 have not heard of any money being circulated 
 here to influence any member of this Conven- 
 tion. I think that no such thing ever will be 
 attempted. But if the Legislature has sole 
 control of this matter, without any restriction 
 whatever, I believe we are not safe from the 
 influences which have operated upon past 
 Legislatures, and the result will be that the 
 Legislature will send out to the people a sys- 
 tem which they will either be obliged to vote 
 down, because they disapprove of it, or be 
 obliged to accept, rather than to have no 
 system. 
 
 The question was taken on the motion to 
 strike out sections two, three, four, and five, 
 and it was lost. 
 
 The question was then taken on concurring, 
 in the amendment recommended by the stand- 
 ing committee, to section two, and it was con- 
 curred in. 
 
 The next amendment recommended by the 
 committee, was to strike out section four, 
 which is as follows : 
 
 Sec. 4. The stockholders in every corporation 
 or association for banking purposes, issuing any 
 kind of paper credits to circulate as money, shall 
 be individually responsible for its debts and liabil- 
 ities of every kind. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move'that this commit- 
 tee concur in the recommendation to strike 
 out that section. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I do not rise for the 
 purpose of making a speech in regard to this 
 matter, but I wish it distinctly understood 
 that so far as I am concerned, I am totally 
 opposed to striking out that section. 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 The next amendment recommended by the 
 committee, was to strike out the word "and " 
 and insert " or " in section seven, which reads 
 as follows : 
 
316 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— "Wednesday, August 5. 
 
 Sec. 7. Dues from corporations, other than 
 banking, shall be secured by such individual lia- 
 bility of the corporators, and other means as may 
 be prescribed by law. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move that that amend- 
 ment be concurred in. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I would take this occa- 
 sion to ask the committee to explain the mean- 
 ing of that section, and how it is understood 
 that it is to be appUed. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I presume the gentle- 
 man understands it as well as the committee. 
 He vmderstands the use of the English lan- 
 guage as well as any one here. " Dues from 
 " corporations, other than banking, shall be 
 " secured by such individual liability of the 
 " corporators, and other means, as may be 
 "prescribed by law." Now there may be 
 corporations formed — as is done in some 
 States — where it may be proper to make the 
 corporators individually responsible for all 
 the labor performed for the corporation, so 
 that the laborers, if it becomes bankrupt as a 
 body corporate, will be safe. There are many 
 cases of that kind arising, and it is not unfre- 
 quently the case that when special acts of 
 incorporation are granted, the individual mem- 
 bers of the company are held responsible, to 
 a certain extent, either for labor or mate- 
 rials, or both. In Massachusetts you will 
 find repeated instances of that kind, where 
 special charters are granted. Section six 
 provides that in certain cases, the Legislature 
 may grant special acts of incorporation ; or 
 in other words, if they are of opinion that 
 the objects, for which the special act is asked 
 for, cannot be attained under general laws, 
 they may grant a special charter. In cases 
 of that kind it may be necessary to secure 
 dues from that corporation in some particular 
 manner, either by making stockholders indi- 
 vidually liable to a certain extent, or by pro- 
 viding some other means. This section leaves 
 the Legislature to exercise that power in such 
 cases according as circumstances may require. 
 We recommend to strike out " and," and to 
 insert " or," so as to leave it with the Legis- 
 lature to make the corporation liable in such 
 way as they think best. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. There may bo cases 
 where it would be proper for the Legislature 
 to make some peculiar provision to secure the 
 payment of the dues of a corporation, but at 
 
 the same time this section makes it necessary, 
 in every charter granted for corporations 
 hereafter, for the Legislature to provide either 
 that the stockholders shall be individually 
 liable, or some other peculiar security for the 
 payment for debts', which have not existed 
 heretofore. If we look into our statute book, 
 we will find a great number of objects for 
 which acts of incorporation have been granted, 
 such as the building of railroads, the buildmg 
 of bridges and a great many other things, in 
 which acts of incorp rations there are no 
 peculiar provisions for the security of the 
 debts of those corporations ; and this section 
 seems to require that all corporations hereaf- 
 ter shall be required to make some peculiar 
 and extraordinary provisions for the payment 
 of debts, which have not existed heretofore. 
 There are no less than six corporations for 
 building bridges across the Mississippi, within 
 ten miles of this place, and a great , many 
 more above the Falls of St. Anthony. There 
 are a great number of charters granted for 
 building bridges across other streams ; several 
 for plank roads, and for other purposes, none 
 of which contain such a provision. Now 
 tQ apply this provision to all incorporations 
 hereafter, will be unfair and unjust to certain 
 sections of this Territory. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. In reply to the gentle- 
 man, I will say that the general rule under 
 this article is, that no special charter shall be 
 granted for any corporation; consequently 
 the general rule is, that there is a general law. 
 Therefore the provisions which might be 
 adopted by the Legislature for securing dues 
 of corporations, would be general provisions. 
 If any special charters are granted, it is true 
 there might be some special provisions in 
 those special charters for securing dues from 
 tliose special corporations. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to strike out the 
 word " shall " from the first line of the sec- 
 tion, and insert the word "may." 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The first question is 
 upon tlio motion to concur in the recommen- 
 dation of the committee to strike out " and " 
 and insert " or." 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. It seems to me that this 
 whole section is superfluous, and if you in- 
 tend to make a Constitution clear of unneces- 
 sary verbiage, I think we had better strike it 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 5. 
 
 317 
 
 out. It, after all, leaves with the Legislature 
 a power which they would have at any rate, if 
 this section were not in the Constitution. It 
 amoimts to nothing else. " Or other means 
 " as may be prescribed by law." The Legis- 
 lature may prescribe something merely nom- 
 inal — twenty-five dollars deposited with the 
 County Treasurer, for instance. I move to 
 strike out the whole section. 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I now move to strike out 
 " shall" and insert " may." 
 
 Mr. GALARAITH. What would the sec- 
 tion be worth then ? What should it be in 
 the Constitution for ? Is it not a power in- 
 herent in the Legislature to create corpora- 
 tions ? Why insert a truism ? 
 
 " Dues from corporations, other than banking 
 shall be secured by such individual liability of the 
 Stockholders or other means as may be prescribed 
 by law." 
 
 Have not the Legislature the power to do 
 that, witiiout putting it into the Constitution ? 
 The section as it now stands is of no earthly 
 use. It is a mere truism. But it can do no 
 harm. There is that much to be said in its 
 favor. It says dues shall be secm-ed by such 
 individual liability or otherwise as the Legis- 
 latiu-e may think proper. It is somewhat 
 binding upon the Legislature that there shall 
 be some individual Uability, and " may be" 
 is perfectly useless in any case. If the Legis- 
 lature have not the power already, the " may 
 be," may confer power. But do not they 
 possess the power already to create corpora- 
 tions, and have they not the power to put any 
 restrictions upon them they please, even to 
 prohibition ? 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I hope the amendment 
 will not prevail. As said by the gentleman 
 from St. Anthony, the general rule is that 
 corporations shall be formed under general 
 laws. If a body of men come forward and 
 ask for a special act, they ask for an excep- 
 tion to the general rule, and if special privi- 
 leges are granted, I beUeve the Legislatture 
 should secure the payment of dues fix>m such 
 a corporation, in some manner, and that it 
 should not be left to the Legislature to say 
 whether they will or will not require it. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I wish to say a word 
 more. The ninth section of this article de- 
 fines^what is meant by the term "corpora- 
 
 tions." It is to be construed to include all 
 associations and joint stock companies having 
 any of the powers and privileges of corpora- 
 tions not possessed by individuals or part- 
 nerships ? In other words a corporation is an 
 association of persons — but it may be a single 
 person — invested by the Legislature with 
 some privileges that they would not have 
 without an act of incorporation. Now let us 
 see what would be the liabilities of those per- 
 sons without an act of incorporation. Indi- 
 viduals, for instance, associate themselves by 
 partnership, and they are individually liable, 
 each man of them, for all the debts. Now 
 they come to the Legislature and ask that 
 they may be incorporated — that is that they 
 may have some additional privileges that they 
 did not have before, and at the same time that 
 they do that, they invariably ask that they 
 shall be relieved from the responsibility which 
 existed before — in other words, that while 
 they have privileges which they did not before 
 possess, they shall now be relieved from any 
 individual liability for tlie debts of the whole 
 concern. And the Legislature usually grants 
 them what they ask. In some instances they 
 provide that they shaU be individually liable 
 to the amount of the stock which they hold. 
 Now the intention of this provision is — and 
 it is one which occurs in the Constitution of 
 almost every State — that the Legislature shall 
 not, while they grant to individuals, under 
 corporations, special privileges, relieve them 
 from all the obhgations they were under with- 
 out such an act. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. K it does not mean any- 
 thing, it ought not to be in the Constitution. ' 
 If it does really mean something, then it will 
 operate unfairly. I do not wish hereafter, if 
 another company wishes to build another 
 bridge across the Mississippi river, at Saint 
 Paul, they shall be put under a restriction 
 which was not put upon the first company. 
 Or if the Gas company of St. Paul should 
 become such a monopoly, that the people 
 shouldj require another company, that that 
 new company shall not be required to come 
 under some restriction, as to the payment of 
 its debts, which do not exist in reference to 
 the first company. If it really means n'oth- 
 ing, and it is not intended that the Legislatiu-e 
 shall hereafter impose any restrictions more 
 than have been imposed upon corporations 
 
$18 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 5. 
 
 which now exist, it ought not to be in' the 
 Constitution. If it does, it operates unfairly 
 in favor of corporations already existing, and 
 against those which are to be formed here- 
 after. 
 
 The question was then taken on the amend- 
 ment offered by Mr. Morgan, and it was not 
 agreed to. 
 
 And then on motion of Mr. BATES, the 
 committee rose and reported the report to the 
 Convention, with a recommendation that the 
 amendments made in committee of the Whole 
 be adopted. 
 
 The amendments to the first, second and 
 seventh sections were concurred in. 
 
 The question being upon concurring in the 
 amendment to strike out the fourth section as 
 follows : 
 
 "Sec. 4. The stockholders in every corpora- 
 tion or association for banking purposes, issuing 
 any kind of paper credits to circulate as money, 
 shall be individually responsible for its debts and 
 liabilities of every kind." 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I demand the yeas 
 and nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered. 
 
 The vote was taken by yeas and nays, but 
 confusion in the record arising, from members 
 changing their votes, a new call of the roll 
 was ordered. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Before the question is 
 taken again I wish to say a few words. It 
 has been said to-day upon this floor, that the 
 people of this Territory are in favor of banks. 
 Whether that is so or not I do not profess to 
 know. If it be so, why put a clause in your 
 constitution which will prohibit men of capital 
 who have a particle of financial sense abolit 
 them, from engaging in the business of bank- 
 ing? This section will drive capital out of the 
 business, and make wild-cat banks? Men of 
 solid means are not going into banking for 
 the accommodation of the community, but for 
 their own benefit, and such resultant benefits 
 as the community may receive from it. Men 
 of capital want to make money. There is no 
 use in disguising that fact. In the first place, 
 you require in this article that they sliall de- 
 posit ample collateral security, and then you 
 require that every individual shall be individ- 
 ually liable for all the debts of the concern. — 
 Now what man is going to risk his all in 
 banks? Hero A, B and C unite in a banking 
 concern, A and B owning one tenth each, and 
 
 C eight tenths of the capital. C is a man of 
 means, and perhaps has invested all he is 
 worth, A and B may control the affairs of 
 the bank in some way, and create debts which 
 the bank is unable to pay, and C is ruined 
 forever. Every stockholder in the bank is 
 bound for all the debts of the corporation. 
 That will kill any banking system in the world. 
 Why ask of those men collateral security if 
 you are going to hold them to strict individual 
 liability? In many States each stockholder is 
 held liable, not only for the amount of the 
 stock he subscribed for, but for double that 
 amount. That is all well. But to require a 
 man to be bound for the whole amount of the 
 debts of the corporation, is not well. Sup- 
 pose every corporator in that bank but one 
 should become bankrupt, and the bank should 
 fail; a crushing weight falls upon that one 
 man. He may be a good man. He may not 
 be even an officer in the bank. He may have 
 put his money in, in good faith, to have it in 
 a secure place. All the corporators of the 
 bank break up and become insolvent and 
 bankrupt; the bank closes, and all the debts 
 of the bank fall upon that honorable man, who 
 was the life-blood of the bank. He is ruined. 
 What capitalist will put his money into a bank 
 upon such conditions? If we say that the 
 people of a Territory are in favor of banks, 
 let us prescribe a liberal system. Here we 
 have left it to the Legislature and to the peo- 
 ple to say what system we shall have. That 
 is a sufficient safeguard. First the Legisla- 
 ture has the power to pass a general banking 
 law ; second, the Governor has a veto power 
 over the law, and thirdly the people have a 
 right to pass upon it, before it can go into op- 
 eration. What greater security do the peo- 
 ple want than themselves ? The whole ques- 
 tion is placed before them. What more do 
 we want. 
 
 Gentlemen were very anxious here, yester- 
 terday, to leave everything to the Legislature'; 
 but these very gentlemen to-day, in a matter 
 wherein we provide specifically that the peo- 
 ple shall have the right to decide the matter, 
 will put in restrictions, when they say, at the 
 same time, that they know that the people of 
 the Territory are in favor of having banks, — 
 They put a clog upon the banking system ' 
 which will create nothing but wild-cat banks. 
 Capitalists will never engage in banking ulider 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 5. 
 
 319 
 
 such a system. Fancy men — men who make 
 their money out of nothing — men who get up 
 chalk-milk pumps, and make India rubber 
 out of any kind of gum, may engage in it, 
 and become individually liable ; but what is 
 their liability worth? They will borrow as 
 much money as they can, stuff it into their 
 pockets, and where is your recourse? But 
 the man who has made his money by hard 
 labor, will never risk it in an institution with 
 such a clog upon it as that. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope this motion will 
 prevail, agreeing as I do, heartily with the 
 views just expressed ; and my only object in 
 changing my vote was to move to reconsid- 
 er, if the question was decided in the nega- 
 tive. I believe that we have provided suffi- 
 cient security in the sections which precede 
 and follow this, for a safe banking system. — 
 If we have done that, it is aU any man can 
 reasonably ask. I do not want to impose 
 such restrictions as shall prevent the creation 
 of banks — good and reliable banks. We have 
 provided that there shall be ample collateral 
 security. What is the necessity for anything 
 more ? There is no necessity for it, and it cer- 
 tainly would operate as a great objection to 
 any system, and deprive the people of what 
 they want — a good and safe system of bank- 
 ing. I hope gentlemen will consider the mat- 
 ter carefully before they vote upon the propo- 
 sition. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I do hope gentlemen will 
 consider this matter coolly before voting again. 
 It seems to me that the question was not 
 fully vmderstood. The members of this Con- 
 vention did not imderstand the extent to 
 which they were going. I verily believe that 
 if this section is allowed to remain it will for- 
 ever exclude banks from our State, — and we 
 all conciu- in the opinion that our people wish 
 for banks, and that they wish for them upon 
 a safe and firm foundation. Have not we pro- 
 vided for that? We have provided for ample 
 collateral security in the first place. In the 
 next place we have provided that no banking 
 law should go into operation until it shall 
 have been submitted to the people, and re- 
 'ceived a majority of the votes cast for and 
 against it. What more can gentlemen ask ? 
 Is not that safe? 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. As I happened to be 
 one of those members who voted against 
 
 striking out tliis section, I desire to give a 
 few of the reasons which induced me to take 
 that position. So fer as I am concerned, I 
 think I have carefully considered this ques- 
 tion. I am satisfied in my own mind what 
 my duty is in regard to it. The gentleman 
 from Scott coxmty (Mr. Galbraith,) has in- 
 timated that it is the desire of the people of 
 Minnesota to have a banking system. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. My statement was, 
 that other gentlemen upon this floor, had so 
 stated — taking it for granted — but that I did 
 not take it for granted. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. We'll admit that it is 
 the wish and desire of the people to have a 
 banking system ; I do not pretend to say but 
 what such is their desire. But in my judg- 
 ment, if they do desire it, they desire a sound, 
 a safe, and a reliable system. For my own 
 part, as an individual, I am not much in favor 
 of banks or banking operations. However, I 
 do not propose to follow out that position, but 
 I wish to call the attention of the Convention 
 to csrtain reasons assigned here, why this 
 section should be stricken out. In the first 
 place, it is insisted that if this section is al- 
 lowed to remain, it will operate substantially 
 as an exclusion of any kind of a banking sys- 
 tem. Now, Mr. Chairjian, I do not under- 
 stand that that will be .the result. If, as has 
 been intimated here, our men of capital will 
 refuse to go into banking operations under 
 this section, it seems to me that there must 
 be a reason for it. What can that reason 
 possibly be ? If men are allowed to throw 
 their bills of credit out into the world to have 
 them circulate as a monied medium, in my 
 judgment they ought to be willing to place 
 themselves in such a position that there can 
 be no doubt of their redemption ; and if men 
 of capital are not willing to place themselves 
 in such a position, there must be something 
 wrong about it. Now, sir, if you and I pro- 
 pose to establish a bank and issue bills of 
 credit, and have th«m go out as a circulating 
 medium, it seems to me, if we were honest 
 men, and did intend to redeem those bills, we 
 should be perfectly willing to place ourselves 
 in a position that there would be no doubt of 
 eflFecting that object. Now, sir, if those men 
 who go into these operations, propose to re- 
 deem their bills, and propose also to place the 
 bill-holders in a perfectly safe condition, in 
 
320 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES- Wednesday, August 5. 
 
 my judgment it will make no difference to 
 them as to the extent to which they may be 
 compelled to go, in order to secure the rights 
 of the bill-holders. We have all had some 
 little experience in regard to this matter of 
 holding stockholders responsible only to the 
 amount of the stock held by them. We know 
 that under that system, in a great many in- 
 stances, bill-holders have suffered, and that 
 imder a system substantially like this now 
 proposed, there are hundreds of thousands of 
 dollars which are worth only from fifty to 
 seventy-five per cent. And I even have bills 
 of that character in my pocket now — bills 
 with which I could hardly buy my dinner. 
 If we intend to establish a sound and reliable 
 system of banking, and place the bill-holder 
 in a position to be perfectly safe when he has 
 a bill in his pocket, we will tell these banking 
 men that when they go into these operations 
 they shall secure us not only by a deposit 
 of these stocks in the hands of the treasurer ; 
 but that they shall secure us by their own in- 
 dividual responsibility. 
 
 Now a case has been put by the gentleman 
 from Scott county, something like this : A, 
 B and go into a partnership in banking, and 
 C puts in a great share of the capital. Now 
 would C wish to do that, if by so doing he 
 would place himself in a position, where, in 
 the pase of a contingency arising, he would 
 have to foot all the bills of the corporation ? 
 Or, in other words, where he would have to 
 take the money out of his own pocket and 
 redeem the bills put afloat by that corpora- 
 tion ? In my judgment, if he did not wish to 
 place himself in such a position, he ought not 
 to go into the operation. He goes into it 
 knowingly and puts in more capital thart A 
 and B, and if he is foolish enough to put it in, 
 let him take the responsibility ; for I do not 
 believe that the bill-holders should suffer be- 
 cause he is foolish, enough to go into it in that 
 kind of way and manner. 
 
 Again the question has been asked, who 
 will put money into banking corporations if 
 they are to bo made personally responsible 
 for the whole amount of the debts of the cor- 
 porations. In my judgment any man would, 
 provided he was honest and intended to re- 
 deem the bills ; and if he is a dishonest man, 
 as a matter of course, we ought to throw 
 around his operations such kind of restric- 
 
 tions as will protect the creditors of these 
 banking institutions. Now I think I can re- 
 fer gentlemen to New England States where 
 this same individual liability system is in full 
 operation ; and you will find, when you come 
 to inquire of our brokers, that a discount of 
 only one quarter per cent is placed upon the 
 bills of those individual banks, while the bills 
 of banks that have gone on imder this, which 
 I call wild-bank system, are at a discount of 
 three, four and five per cent. In New Hamp- 
 shire, I know a law has been in operation for 
 a long time, by which individual stockholders 
 were liable not only for the redemption of all 
 bills, but for the payment of all the debts of 
 the corporation ; and I know that men in- 
 vested money in such kind of banks, and I 
 know too that they made money in so doing, 
 and that the bill-holders were perfectly safe. 
 Hence I say that men who embark in this 
 kind of business will do so with the idea that 
 they will have to redeem their bills, and at 
 the same time will be perfectly \villing to 
 place themselves in a position which will af- 
 ford the bill-holders a perfect confidence in 
 the solvency of the bank. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I was willing, after we 
 had provided that banking corporations 
 should be established under a general law, to 
 leave the matter with the Legislature ; but if 
 we propose to go into the minutia of this mat- 
 ter, I am decidedly opposed to hanng this 
 section struck out. Gentlemen seem very 
 much alarmed for fear that we shall drive 
 capitalists from our Territory, and that we 
 shall fail to secure any banking system. 
 Well if we are to secure a banking system at 
 the expense of individual bill holders, I hope 
 we shall have none at all. It is the duty of 
 every man who enters an association or cor- 
 poration for banking purposes, to know who 
 his associates are, and to know whether he 
 is likely to be defrauded by them. If indi- 
 vidual stockholders are liable to lose, or if 
 there is any danger of it, there certainly is 
 danger that the bill holders will lose, and we 
 should look out for the interests of tlie people 
 first. What do the people generally know ot 
 the value of the bills which circulate through 
 the country ? There is not one man in a hun- 
 dred who knows any thing of the value of the 
 bills he takes. He has no means of knowing, 
 and hence every safeguard should be thrown 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 5. 
 
 321 
 
 around the banking system, that possibly can 
 be, to protect bill holders, so that when a man 
 takes a bill he may know that he is safe in 
 doing so, 
 
 Mr. BATES. I am as much in favor of 
 liaving a safe banking system as any individ- 
 ual, but we have decided to leave this matter 
 to the Legislature. They are to enact a law, 
 and that law is to be submitted to a vote of 
 the people for their approval, and if the Le- 
 gislature do not enact a safe system, the peo- 
 ple will have the privilege of voting it down. 
 What more can gentlemen ask ? One gentle- 
 man refers to a system in New Hampshire. 
 I ask the gentleman if in the Constitution of 
 New Hampshire, there is any such provision 
 as this ? There certainly is not. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I did not state that 
 there was any such provision in the Consti- 
 tution of that State, but that there was a 
 general law of that character. 
 
 Mr. BATES. And in the Constitutions of 
 the various New England States, to which 
 the gentleman has referred, there is no pro- 
 vision similar to this. The safety of their 
 banking institutions is secured under a gene- 
 ral law, and such should be the case here. 
 If this section is put into the Constitution, it 
 may act as too great a restraint. I am in fa- 
 vor of a general law, and one which will make 
 our system safe, 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I now rise to a point of 
 order. Is not this whole debate out of order ? 
 We have had debate suflficient upon both 
 sides, and it is all out of order after the yeas 
 and nays are demanded. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It certainly is out of 
 order but the Chair has permitted it, consid- 
 ering it a very important subject. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I desire to say a few 
 words upon this subject, as I have felt some 
 interest in this provision. I have been from 
 the first opposed to it. I believe, as the gen- 
 tleman from Scott county (Mb. Galbbaith) 
 said, if you incorporate this provision into 
 the Constitution, it will operate as a prohibition 
 of banks. And if it does not operate as a 
 prohibition it will throw the banking system 
 into the hands of irresponsible men. If the 
 man of capital wants to engage in the busi- 
 ness of banking imder this provision, his own 
 name will not be used, but the names of 
 other persons who are not responsible, al- 
 41 
 
 though he may be at the bottom of it. I 
 have seen that thing carried out in the bank- 
 ing business, time and again, and I want to 
 avoid its recurrence here. I am in favor of 
 securing the bill holder in the best possible 
 manner, I am in favor of throwing around him 
 all proper safeguards, but at the same time, 
 I am opposed to defeating the banking system. 
 Gentlemen talk as though they looked upon 
 this system as a one sided system, and as 
 though the only object was to make money, 
 upon the part of the bankers. I believe that 
 the banking system is for the mutual benefit 
 of the men who carry on the business, and of 
 the people who enjoy the facilities they fur- 
 nish for developing the resources of the coun- 
 try. It is a benefit to the State as such. 
 But I desire this matter to be left to the Le- 
 gislature. We have left them to determine 
 what kind of stocks shall be pledged as secu- 
 rity for the bills issued; but we have said 
 distinctly that ample collateral security shall 
 be deposited. Another section provides that 
 in case of the insolvency . of any bank, the 
 bill holders shall be entitled to preference in 
 payment. Now is there any chance for the 
 bill holders to lose, if the Legislature do their 
 duty? 
 
 Again, if that provision is put into the 
 Constitution, and it has the effect, which I 
 believe it wUl, to drive capitalists away, and 
 keep them out of the business, or else to 
 engage in the business in the names of irre- 
 sponsible persons, it will certainly be delete- 
 rious, if it has the latter effect ; and if the 
 former effect, we shall have the State flooded 
 with foreign biUs. This Territory is flooded 
 to-day with the paper currency of other 
 States. Can you point me to a single West- 
 em State which has such a provision as this, 
 under a general banking law? Is there a 
 single State that provides for the deposit 
 of security to the full amount of the paper 
 issued, and at the same time makes the 
 stockholders individually responsible for all 
 its debts ? If any gentleman can point me 
 to such an instance, I would Hke to know it. 
 Wisconsin has no such provision in her law, 
 which has been so eulogised here, and justly 
 too. 
 
 The gentleman from Steele County, (Mr. 
 Coggswell) has referred to New Hampshire. 
 New Hampshire has no general banking law. 
 
822 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesdat, August 5. 
 
 Her laws do not require the men who engage 
 in banking business to deposit security to the 
 full amount of their issue, and then become 
 individually responsible. 
 
 How is it in Massachusetts ? Their stock- 
 holders are individually responsible to twice 
 the amount of shares they own, but they are 
 allowed to issue bills to twice the amount of 
 the security deposited. It seems to me, to 
 say that they shall be individually liable to 
 the full amount of their fortune, will have a 
 prohibitory effect, and that no banking sys- 
 tem can prosper under such a provision. 
 
 I hope, then, the section will be stricken 
 out, and the matter be left with the Legisla- 
 ture. If the Legislature thinks that there is 
 not ample security, let them provide that the 
 stockholders shall be individually responsible 
 to the amount of their respective shares. I 
 am confident that the Legislature will pro- 
 vide all the security that is needed. If this 
 section is retained it will create a strong pre- 
 judice in the minds of the very men who have 
 had ideas of going into the banking business. 
 I believe it will have the opposite effect from 
 what gentlemen intend. Instead of putting 
 the business into the hands of reliable cap- 
 italists — though they may be at the bottom of 
 it — ^it will be placed into the hands of men of 
 straw. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I am disposed to put 
 banking corporations upon the same footing as 
 limited partnership. The second section pro- 
 vides that no general act shall be passed grant- 
 ing banking privileges, without ample collat- 
 eral security being deposited for the redemp- 
 tion of the issue. I consider that the credit 
 of such a body should be the credit of a cor- 
 poration and not that of an individual. I am 
 aware that in the New England States where 
 they have no general banking law, and where 
 the corporation is not obliged to deposit with 
 the State Treasurer any security, it may be 
 very important, as the gentleman suggested, 
 to have the individual stockholders liable for 
 the redemption of the bills. But hero we 
 provide that no act shall be passed which shall 
 not require a bank to deposit ample collateral 
 security for the redemption of its issues. Now 
 suppose that section four is allowed to re- 
 main in, and that each individual stockholder 
 shall be liable not only to the amount of his 
 stock — for I am willing to go thus far — but 
 
 for every debt and liability of every kind ; 
 do you suppose capitalists would go into 
 business under such a regulation ? I think 
 that inasmuch as we have exacted a general 
 security, it would be folly to hamstring cor- 
 porations of this kind by making stockholders 
 individually liable. If this were the only pro- 
 vision in the bill, I should consider that it 
 created an unsafe system. As it is, we have 
 other provisions much better, securing fully 
 the bill holders. Require only an individual 
 responsibility, and if the affairs of a corpora- 
 tion should be going badly, a man could trans- 
 fer his stock to an irresponsible person and 
 thereby escape responsibility under the pro- 
 visions of this section, which gentlemen say 
 should remain in the Constitution. Now the 
 credit of banking corporations is not based 
 upon the individual responsibility of the stock- 
 holders, but upon the credit of the corpora- 
 tion as such. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I have lived in a State where 
 a provision similar to this has been, for along 
 time in operation, and I think I am prepared to 
 have an opinion upon the subject. My im- 
 pression of its operation is unfavorable to it. 
 I have known a great many cases of hard- 
 ship to poor men resulting from it ; but in 
 what respect good has resulted from it, after 
 an experience of ten years, I cannot say, and 
 do not know. I would like gentlemen to 
 point me to an instance in which it has ope- 
 rated advantageously. It seems to me that 
 it operates badly for the corporation and the 
 people. It was tried in New Hampshire purely 
 as an experiment, and as such it operated 
 mischievously. If it is to become a part of 
 our laws, it should be left to the Legislature 
 to establish it. It is strictly a matter of legis- 
 lation. But I do not even see why, M'hen it 
 is of doubtful eflBcacy, we should apply to 
 the Legislature for such security. We can 
 entrust the whole matter to them. If we are 
 to have any such provison for security in the 
 Constitution, I want it to be an unquestion- 
 able provision, and one that wUl answer the 
 end intended. I hope the good sense of the 
 Convention will vote down this section. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I do not wish to dis- 
 cuss this matter any longer. I hope the ques- 
 tion will be put and if the section is voted in, 
 I will offer an amendment. 
 • Mr. McCLURE. I wish merely to sug- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES—Wedxesdat, August 5. 
 
 823 
 
 I 
 
 gest here, that if some of our friends do not 
 cease violating one of our rules pretty soon, 
 I shall have to call them to order. When we 
 have rules, I believe they should be observed. 
 This speaking two or three times is a little 
 more than should be allowed. 
 
 For myself I shall vote to strike out this 
 section, for the reason that I think the Legis- 
 lature can provide, under the preceding part 
 of this report, security just as good as is de- 
 sired or necessary. 
 
 Mr. KING. I tlank there is evidence 
 enough before the Convention to show them 
 the propriety of taking this security for banking 
 operations. Take the whole history of bank- 
 ing, and there never has been a bank upon a 
 firm foundation, except existing banks, of 
 course, and we cannot tell how soon they 
 may break. Let us try this plan and see if 
 it will not give us permanent and secure banks. 
 One gentleman has said that capitalists will 
 not connect their names with a bank, but 
 will assume a name. I reckon our Legisla- 
 ture is wise enough to counteract any such 
 operation, and forbid it. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. The gentleman mis- 
 apprehends me. I said that if the real 
 capitalist should engage in the business of 
 banking, he would allow other and irrespon- 
 sible people to take the stock, and although it 
 was really his, it would be in the names of 
 other persons, and thereby he would escape 
 personal liability. 
 
 Mr. KING. That may be so, and if it is 
 so, it will be necessary to find that out as 
 soon as possible. It seems to me that there 
 would be a very fair prospect of making 
 money, if I could go into a corporation of this 
 kind, and issue bills to an amount two or 
 three times as much as I am worth, and not 
 risk what possessions I have. If men are 
 not willing to risk their property and stock 
 which they may put into a bank, in the hands 
 of other individuals because they may be 
 rascals, it seems to me that that is sufiBcient 
 evidence to satisfy us that this section is 
 right. 
 
 I think there is a provision in some Consti- 
 tutions that corporations shall not have privi- 
 leges which individuals do not possess. Now 
 no individual has a right to give his note, and 
 not be responsible for that note ; and no cor- 
 poration should have that right. Corporationg 
 
 should never have privileges not granted to 
 individuals. If there never has been a bank 
 incorporated upon this principle, T should like 
 to try it here. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I do not rise to speak 
 again at length. I have spoken but once. I 
 like the idea of keeping, as nearly as may be, 
 corporations upon the same footing with indi- 
 viduals. A corporation is but one individual 
 in law, though it is a combmation of individ- 
 uals to accomplish a specific end, which 
 individuals cannot do. We provide that the 
 stockholders shall put in good, ample security, 
 and shall we require anything more ? Who 
 ever heard of an individual doing a legal 
 credit business, depositing collateral security 
 for every debt he creates. The law prescribes 
 no such thing. One instance of the working 
 of this principle now occurs to me. It is the 
 case of the Miner's Bank of Pennsylvania. 
 It went into operation under a charter in 
 which the most stringent personal liability 
 clause was inserted. Certain individuals well 
 known in that State, went to work to defraud 
 the people through that bank. An old man 
 and his sons put their heads together, and 
 got control of the concern, issued a hundred 
 thousand dollars worth of bills, and then 
 "busted." Well, they were individually 
 liable, but what security was that to the bill- 
 holders? Nobody ever got anything. The 
 other security is the best. Security which is 
 tangible is what I want. Individual security 
 is good enough in its place, but not here. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. We want tangible security, 
 and along with that we want individual lia- 
 bility. I cannot say that I am in favor of 
 this section to the extent to which it goes, and 
 if it is retained I shall offer an amendment to 
 it. The members of corporations know when 
 there is no responsibility in a banking concern, 
 eacTi member is behind the screen, and knows 
 what security there is there ; and if he is not 
 willing to assume the responsibility of becom- 
 ing personally liable, it is sufficient evidence, 
 to my mind, that that bank is unsafe ; that 
 every poor man with one of its bills in his 
 pocket, is unsafe. 
 
 But gentleman say we require them to give 
 ample collateral secmity. How often have 
 we found this ample security turn out not to 
 be ample security ? We have found it so in 
 the case of almost every bank that has been 
 
824 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— "Wednesday, August 5. 
 
 broken. Ample security often means any- 
 thing. Every man knows that. Ample 
 security ! It is at the discretion of certain 
 men to say what is. Sometimes we err wil- 
 fully, and sometimes ignorantly. The Legis- 
 lature ■will be quite liable to err. If men are 
 not willing to say that they will risk their 
 property under this section, I say they should 
 not have the benefits resulting from the 
 business. If banks break, who should lose 
 but those who get up the security. Except 
 themselves, who knew what the security was ? 
 They know what the security is, and they 
 should not loan their paper unless it is secured. 
 If it is secured, they get the benefit, and if it 
 is not, they should bear the loss. 
 
 As I said before, I am in favor of a medium 
 between the two extremes, but I shaU vote 
 first in favor of retaining the section, and if 
 retained, I will offer an amendment to it. But 
 I rather have the section as it is, than nothing, 
 and I shall continue to vote for it. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I voted before, against 
 striking out this section for the very purpose 
 of moving a re-consideration, as did the gentle- 
 man from St. Anthony, (Mr. Secombe). I 
 am in favor of striking out this section, as I 
 was before in favor of striking out all the sec- 
 tions which provide for a system of banking. 
 I am more desirous of striking out this 
 section, than I am of any other, for the reason 
 that it contains a principle over which there 
 will be a great deal of controversy. I sup- 
 posed, when the first section of this report 
 was amended so as to require the Legislature 
 to frame a banking law, and submit it to the 
 people, that it was for the purpose of throw- 
 ing out of the Constitution the whole banking 
 system, and to get rid of the discussion upon 
 the consequences of establishing a banking 
 system. I cannot see the consistency of pro- 
 viding that the Legislature should pass a law 
 and submit it to the people, and then going 
 on and framing a whole system and inserting 
 it into the Constitution. I cannot see why 
 gentlemen should persist upon that with so 
 much tenacity. If we adopt the first section, 
 we provide for a full and complete system 
 substantially, for the Legislature, under that, 
 must frame a general banking law and submit 
 it to the people. If you go on and adopt the 
 other sections, why make it incumbent upon 
 the Legislature to submit their law, when 
 
 there is nothing to submit, which is not con- 
 tained in the Constitution ? Why ask them 
 to submit something which the people have 
 already sanctioned in the Constitution ? The 
 time and expense which the Legislature 
 would spend in passing a general law and 
 submitting it to the people would be all lost. 
 
 Again, by inserting such provisions in the 
 Constitution, we put an obstacle in the way 
 of the adoption of the Constitution itself, for 
 I am satisfied that a large number of our vo- 
 ters will oppose the ado{)tion of a Constitution 
 containing such a system of banking. There 
 is a large commercial, mercantile and monied 
 interest in the Territory, that wQl oppose its 
 adoption, and thereby endanger the adoption 
 of the Constitution, and perhaps entirely de- 
 feat it, and prevent our coming into the Union 
 for some time. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I would inquire if the 
 yeas and nays are ordered to be taken again 
 upon this question ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. They have been or- 
 dered. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I recorded my vote in the 
 aflfirmative. I am still opposed to that section. 
 I hope we shall have no more discussion upon 
 it, but shall proceed to vote immediately. 
 
 The question was then taken on the recom- 
 mendation to strike out section four, and it 
 was decided in the afiSrmative, yeas thirty- 
 two, and nays sixteen, as follows : 
 
 Yeas — Messrs. Ayer, Balcombe, Baldwin, Bates, 
 Butler, Cleghorn, Colburn, Dickerson, Eschlie, 
 Foster, Folsom, Galbraith, Hayden, HoUey, 
 Kemp, Lowe, McClure, Morgan, Mills, Mur- 
 phy, North, Phelps, Perkins, Putnam, Peckham, 
 Russell, Stannard, Secombe, Smith, Thompson, 
 Watson, and Sheldon.— 82. 
 
 JViz^rs-Messrs. Anderson, Bartholomew, Billings, 
 Coggswell, Cederstam, Davis, Duley, Gerrish, 
 Harding, Hudson, Hanson, King, Mantor, McCann, 
 McKune and Wilson. — 16. 
 
 So the section was stricken out. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I offer the following to sup- 
 ply the place of the section which has just 
 been stricken out : 
 
 "Sec. 4. Dues from corporations or associa- 
 tions for banking purposes issuing any kind of 
 paper credits to circulate as money shall be secured 
 by such individual liability of the stockholders 
 and other means as may be prescribed by law, but 
 in all cases, each stockholder shall be liable over 
 and above the stock by him or her owned, and any 
 amount unpaid thereon, to a further sum at least 
 equal in amount to such stock." 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, Arcxm 5. 
 
 325 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would inquire of the 
 Chair if that amendment is in order while 
 there are other amendments recommended 
 by the committee pending ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair thinks it is 
 not strictly in order until after those amend- 
 ments are disposed of 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I have no objection to its 
 laying over. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. HUDSON, (at 
 twelve o'clock and ten minutes) the Conven- 
 tion took a recess imtil half past two o'clock. 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention was called to order at half 
 past two o'clock. 
 
 BAXKIXG CORPORATIOXS, AC. 
 
 The Convention resumed the consideration 
 of the amendments to the report of the com- 
 mittee on Banking and Corporations other 
 than municipal, the question being upon the 
 next amendment recommended by the com- 
 mittee, to substitute the word " or," for the 
 word " and," in section seven, which is as 
 follows : 
 
 "Sec. 7. Dues from corporations other than 
 banking shall be secured bj such individual lia- 
 bility of the corporators, and other means as may 
 be prescribed by law.'-' 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I move to strike out sec- 
 tions six and seven. Section six provides 
 that corp rations for purposes other than 
 banking may be formed by general laws, and 
 also that all general laws &c., may be altered 
 from time to time or repealed. I do not see the 
 necessity of first giving the power to pass laws, 
 and then to repeal them from time to time. 
 It seems to me useless to burden the Consti- 
 tution with any such article. The Legisla- 
 ture have the power, without its being con- 
 ferred upon them here. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE moved a call of the Con- 
 vention. 
 
 A call was ordered and the roll being called 
 the following members failed to answer to 
 their names : 
 
 Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Ayer, BoUes, Cleg- 
 horn, Coe, Coombs, Eschlie, Foster, Hall, Han- 
 eon, King, Lowe, McCann, Murphy, Xorth, Per- 
 kins, Robbins, Walker, Winell, Watson, and 
 Sheldon. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN from the committee on 
 Leave of Absence, stated that Mr. Aij)bich 
 
 was out of town, and had asked leave of ab- 
 sence for the day. 
 
 Mr. HARDING moved that all further 
 proceedings under the call be' dispensed with. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would inquire how 
 many members are absent ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. Twenty-OTie members 
 are absent unexcused. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The matter we have 
 under consideration is one of very great im- 
 portance, and about which we have discov- 
 ered that there is a difference of opinion. I 
 hope further proceedings in the call will not 
 be dispensed with. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to, and the 
 Sergeant-at-Arms was directed to report ab- 
 sent members in their seats. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD moved (at two o'clock 
 fifty minutes) that the Convention adjourn. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. WILSON moved (at three o'clock) to 
 reconsider the vote by which the Convention 
 refused to suspend further proceedings under 
 the call. I wish to say that 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. Debate is not in order. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I would inquire if my 
 motion is debatable? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is not. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Can I be permitted to say 
 that if we do not reconsider the vote we shalll 
 be compelled to adjourn ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is not in order to 
 make any such remark. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Then I will not say so. 
 (Laughter.) 
 
 The motion to reconsider prevailed. 
 
 The question then recurred on the motion 
 to dispense with all further proceedings under 
 the call, and being put it was lost. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON moved (at three o'clock and 
 five minutes) that the Convention adjourn. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD moved to reconsider the 
 vote by which the Convention refused to ad- 
 journ. (Laughter.) 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The motion is out of 
 order. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I move that we adjourn 
 until four o'clock. 
 
 The PRESIDISNT. A motion to adjourn 
 to a specific time is out of order. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. WiU a motion to take a 
 recess be in order ? 
 
826 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 5. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It will not. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. WUl a motion to 
 adjourn be in order. (Laughter.) 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It will not. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. Shall I have leave to make 
 a remark ? [Cries of " leave," leave."] 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I cannot listen to any 
 remarks. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. If any gentleman ob- 
 jects it is not in order. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I will withdraw the 
 objection. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I would like to hear the 
 gentleman under other circumstances, but I 
 must object now. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I think we are not doing 
 our duty as we should, while spending time 
 in this way. There is a goodly number of 
 members present, and it is wrong to spend 
 time in this manner when we have so much 
 business on our hands. I hope we shall pro- 
 ceed to business at once. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN moved to reconsider the 
 vote whereby the Convention refused to sus- 
 pend further proceedings under the call. 
 
 The motion to reconsider prevailed, and 
 then all further proceedings under the call 
 were dispensed with. 
 
 The question recurred on the motion to 
 strike out sections six and seven of the re- 
 port. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I move the previous 
 question. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move that the report 
 and the previous question be laid on the table. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 The previous question was then seconded, 
 and the main question ordered to be put. 
 
 The main question being the motion to 
 strike out sections six and seven — 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE demanded the yeas and 
 nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being taken, it was decided in the 
 negative — yeas 6, nays 33 — as follows : 
 
 Jea«.— Messrs. Ayer, Balcombe, Folsom, Mills, 
 Putnam, and Stannard. — 6. 
 
 J\'ay«.— Messrs. Baldwin, Bates, Bartholomew, 
 Billings^ Butler, Colburn, Coggswell, Cederstam, 
 Davis, Uulcy, Dickerson, Esohlie, Galbraith, Qer- 
 rith, Hayden, Harding, Hanson, HoUey, King, 
 Kemp, Lyle, Mantor, MctJlure. Messer, Phelps, 
 Perkins, Peckham, Russell, Sccombe, Smith, 
 Vaughn, Wilson, and Sheldon. — 88. 
 
 Mr. DICKERSON. I move to strike out 
 section seven. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I now offer the following, 
 to take the place of section four, which has 
 been stricken out : 
 
 '"Sec. 4. Dues from corporations or associa- 
 tions for banking purposes, issuing any kind of 
 paper credits to circulate as money, shall be se- 
 cured by such individual liability of stockholders 
 and other means, as shall be prescribed by law ; 
 but in all cases, each stockholder shall be liable, 
 over and above the stock by hira or her owned and 
 any amount unpaid thereon, to a farther sum at 
 least equal in amount to such stock." 
 
 My amendment will obviate to a great ex- 
 tent the difficulty spoken of this morning, in 
 regard to one person being held for the whole 
 amount of the debts of the corporation. My 
 amendment provides that each stockholder 
 shall be individually liable for the debts to at 
 least double the amount of stock held by such 
 person. What is the necessity for such a 
 provision ? Here is a bank established, and 
 there is a law requiring that bank to deposit 
 stocks of a certain kind to secure the redemp- 
 tion of the bills. Stocks may be deposited 
 to the amount, say, of one dollar and twenty- 
 five for every dollar circulated. Now we 
 know that those stocks frequently depreciate, 
 and they may so depreciate as to come down 
 to the actual amount in circulation. Now 
 take a bank that has nearly as large a circu- 
 lation as it has securities deposited, that bank 
 does not secure the people fully. I want se- 
 curity enough to cover the deposits as well 
 as the circulation, and if the members of a 
 corporation are not wilhng to become person- 
 ally responsible for a sum at least double the 
 amount of their stock, then their institution 
 is an unsafe one, and the people should know 
 it, that they may guard against it. If per- 
 sons who know the whole workings and re- 
 sponsibility of a bank, will not become re- 
 sponsible for at least an amount double their 
 stock, so as to cover the amount of deposits 
 and bills, no person should touch the notes of 
 that bank. It would be unsafe, and we 
 should have nothing to do with it. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I hope the amendment 
 will not be adopted. It seems to me to be a 
 piece of complicated legislation which we can- 
 not fully understand at this time. ^Vo have 
 decided, by an amendment previously intro- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wedkesdat, August 5. 
 
 327 
 
 daced, to leave the matter with the Legisla- 
 ture, subject to revision by the people, who 
 are to vote upon any law the Legislature may 
 pass. This amendment is liable to all the ob- 
 jections which have been urged here so often 
 in regard to legislation. For that reason, I 
 am decidedly opposed to it. 
 
 Mr. "WILSON. Permit me to say thatmy 
 amendment is taken, word for word, from the 
 Ohio Constitution. "We are not anticipating 
 and going ahead of the times, but coming af- 
 ter. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. The Ohio .provision was 
 founded upon a diflFerent basis firom our re- 
 port. 
 
 Mr. BATES. "We have introduced here a 
 provision which is contained in no other Con- 
 stitution in the United States. "We have re- 
 quired ample collateral security, which Ohio 
 has not required. In addition to that we re- 
 quire that a general banking law shall be sub- 
 mitted to a vote of the people. I do not 
 know what further could be asked. It seems 
 to me that that is all that ought to be re- 
 quired. 
 
 Mr. "WILSON demanded the yeas and nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being taken it was decided in the 
 negative — yeas 17, nays 26, as follows: 
 
 Teas. — Messrs. Anderson, Bartholomew, Bil- 
 lings, Cogswell, Davis, Duley, Eschlie, Gerrish, 
 Harding, Hudson, Hanson, Holley, King, Kemp, 
 McCann, Messer, and Wilson. — 17. 
 
 Kayg. — Messrs. Aver, Balcombe, Baldwin, Bates, 
 Butler, Colburn, Cederstam, Dickerson, Foster, 
 Fo'.som, Galbraith, Hajden, Lyle, McClure, Mor- 
 gan, Mills, Phelps, Perkins, Putnam, Peckham, 
 Russell, Stannard, Secombe, Smith, Vaughn, and 
 Sheldon.— 26. 
 
 So the amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. LYLE. I offer the following as a sub- 
 stitute for the first five sections of the bill. 
 I am opposed to any legislation whatever up- 
 on the subject in the Constitution : 
 
 "Sec. 1. The Legislature shall have power to 
 pass a general banking law, with such restrictions 
 and under such regulations as they shall deem ex- 
 pedient and proper for the security of the bill 
 holders; Provided, that no such law shall have 
 any force or effect until it shall have been submit- 
 ted to the electors of the State at some general 
 election, and been approved by a majority of the 
 votes cast upon that subject at such election." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE demanded the yeas and 
 nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being taken it was decided in the 
 negative — yeas 17, nays 27, as follows: 
 
 Teas — Messrs. Balcombe, Foster, Foljom, Gal- 
 braith, Hudson, Hanson, Holley, King, Kemp, 
 Lyle, McCann, Mills, Putnam, Russell, Stannard, 
 Smith, and Vaughn. — 17. 
 
 Nays — Messrs. Anderson, Aver, Baldwin, Bates, 
 Bartholomew, Billings, Butler, Colburn, Coggs- 
 well, Cederstam, Davis, Duley, Dickerson, Eschlie, 
 Gerrish, Hayden, Harding, Mantor, McClure, Mes- 
 ser, Morgan, Phelps, Perkins, Peckham, Secombe, 
 Wilson, and Sheldon. — 27. 
 
 So the substitute was rejected. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move to amend sec- 
 tion six by striking out the words "formed 
 by general laws" and insert in lieu thereof 
 the words " created by the Legislature." 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. If that amendment is 
 adopted, corporations for other purposes than 
 banking, cannot be created by a general law 
 or by a special act, except in certain cases. 
 It would place the Legislature in a very awk- 
 ward position. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I claim that my amend- 
 ment will have just the contrary effect. The 
 Legislature can pass any general law at any 
 time and it is always the poUcy of the Legis- 
 lature to do so, and the only case in which 
 special acts are called for is where the object 
 cannot be attained under general laws. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Would not the object the 
 gentleman seeks, be obtained quite as well, if 
 the section were amended to read in this man- 
 ner: "corporations for purposes other than 
 " banking shall not be created except by spec- 
 " hal act, except for municipal purposes, &c." 
 That would improve the phraseology. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I am opposed to the 
 section as it now stands, for reasons urged be- 
 fore by some gentleman this morning. There 
 are some portions of our Territory already 
 settled, the water power of which is already 
 sufficiently secured by acts of incorporation ; 
 and many of those acts extend quite a length 
 of time. But there are other parts of the 
 Territory, not yet settled, that will need simi- 
 lar acts of incorporation. But here we are 
 providing for the creation of corporations only 
 by general laws. Now where it would not 
 be practicable to pass general laws, it would 
 stop all legislation of the kind. I ask every 
 member of this Convention, if a general law 
 can be framed which will apply to all these 
 
328 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, Axtqust 5. 
 
 cases ? We all know it cannot be done. — 
 Then special acts should be passed. I do 
 not propose to shut the gate now against other 
 portions of our Territory, not yet settled, and 
 debar them of the privileges we enjoy. The 
 Legislature heretofore has been very liberal, 
 and I say that is one reason why Minnesota 
 has advanced so rapidly as she has. The in- 
 corporation of towns and railroads tend to 
 awaken interest in Minnesota, and it is a mis- 
 taken idea that our Legislature should be 
 trammelled in this respect. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I think the gentleman 
 does not understand the language of the sec- 
 tion, or else he does not correctly explain 
 what he understands. If I understand what 
 the gentleman from Chisago desires, it seems 
 to me that this section meets his views exact- 
 ly. In the first place I understand that the 
 gentleman is in favor of corporations being 
 created and established under general laws, 
 a general rule. Now tliis section provides 
 that " corporations for purposes other than 
 " banking may be formed by general laws ; but 
 " shall not be created by special act, except for 
 "municipal purposes;" and then it goes on to 
 provide that in cases where, in the judgment 
 of the Legislature, the object of the corpora- 
 tion cannot be attained under general laws, 
 they may create corporations by special act. 
 That meets the gentleman's views exactly It 
 makes the formation of corporations under 
 general laws the rule. The exceptions are 
 when the objects cannot be attained under 
 general laws. Such also was the intention of 
 the committee, and I believe the language is 
 
 very clear. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. Will the genUeman give 
 one or two instances of corporations which 
 will be established by general laws? 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. There are many kinds 
 of manufacturing companies in the several 
 States, which do exist under general laws. — 
 Railroad companies may sometimes be formed 
 under general laws. But where the object 
 cannot be attained under a general law, the 
 Legi.slature has the power to pass a special 
 act. This provision will save much legislation. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the amendment 
 will not prevail. The provision as it now 
 stands, lays down to the Legislature a general 
 rule of action, and that is, that corporations, 
 not only for banking, but for all other pur- 
 poses, shall be formed under general laws — 
 
 that there shall be laws passed comprehend 
 ing certain subjects, and then every associa- 
 tion of persons who wish to go into that kind 
 of business imder that general act of incorpo 
 ration, can, by complying with the terms of 
 the act, become incorporated. And if there 
 were not certain cases to which it would seem 
 that general laws could not apply, I should 
 be decidedly in favor of prohibiting the Leg- 
 islature from passing any special acts. But 
 there are a class of cases, in the opinion of 
 the committee, which could not be reached 
 by a general law, or if it could be, it would 
 require great circumlocution. I might refer 
 to the case of boom companies, — a very im- 
 portant class of incorporations in tliis Terri- 
 tory. It might be that a general law might 
 be passed which would cover that subject. — 
 There might also be such cases in regard to 
 the improvement of rivers, either by dams or 
 otherwise, which no general law would cover. 
 And it was the intention of the committee 
 while we prescribed a general rule for the 
 Legislature, yet not to prohibit them from 
 passing an act incorporating companies spec- 
 ially and with special privileges, if in their 
 judgment it could not come within a general 
 law. It was objected by some of the com- 
 mittee that it left it to the judgment of the 
 Legislature to say whether or not the required 
 object could be attained under a general law, 
 and that if they desired to pass an act giving 
 special privileges to any individual, they could 
 make an excuse, and do it. But the general 
 provisions of the Constitution would be to them 
 a rule, and they would fall back upon that 
 and refuse special privileges to individuals, 
 when they would not do so if they had the 
 whole thing under their control. I believe 
 that the provision as it now stands, is the best 
 we can have upon the subject. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I wish simply to remark 
 that this whole section appears to me to mean 
 everything and nothing. It seems surplusage 
 entirely. It in the first place attempts to 
 prohibit the Legislature from doing something, 
 and then in another line it permits them to 
 do it. Mark the language. 
 
 " Corporations for purposes other than banking 
 may be formed by general laws, but shall not be 
 created by special act, except for municipal purpo- 
 ses, and in cases where, in the judgment of the 
 Legislature, the object of the corporation cannot 
 be attained under general laws." 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 5. 
 
 329 
 
 That is a charter as lai^ as the wind. 
 The Legislature may at any time decide 
 that a particular object cannot be attained 
 under general laws, and pass a special act to 
 meet the case. "Where is there any appeal 
 from that matter of judgment?' Suppose 
 you take it to the Supreme Court, what could 
 they say, but that it was a matter left to the 
 judgment of the Legislature, and that they 
 could not reverse that judgment? If you 
 intend to prohibit the Legislature from pass- 
 ing special acts of incorporations, why pro- 
 hibit them, or else say nothing about it. Do 
 not attempt to do it, and then not do it. 
 
 The question was taken, and the amend, 
 ment was not agreed to, 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I propose to amend the 
 report further by adding the following sections : 
 
 " Sec. — . No right of way shall be appropria- 
 ted to the use of any corporation, until full com- 
 pensation therefor be firsfmade in money, or first 
 secured by a deposit of money to the owner, irre- 
 spective of any benefit to accrue to the owner 
 from any improvement proposed by such corpora- 
 tions ; which compensation shall be ascertained by 
 a jury of twelve men, in a court of record, as may 
 be prescribed by law," 
 
 Mr. CO LB URN. I move the previous 
 question upon that amendment. The subject 
 has been thoroughly discussed heretofore. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I rise to a question of order. 
 That amendment having been once introduced 
 before, and full}^ discussed, can it be intro- 
 duced again ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair thinks it is 
 in order, as an amendment to this report. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Will a substitute for 
 the additional section be in order ? 
 
 , The PRESIDENT. Not after a demand 
 for the previous question. 
 
 The previous question was seconded, and 
 the main question ordered to be put. 
 
 Mr. WILSON demanded the yeas and 
 nays upon the amendment. 
 
 The yeas and nays were refused. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD moved that there be a 
 call of the Convention. 
 
 A call was refused. 
 
 The amendment was then rejected. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I now move that the 
 report be ordered to be engrossed for a third 
 reading. — 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move that that 
 motion be laid upon the table. 
 42 
 
 Mr. KING. What will be the effect of 
 laying that motion on the table ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The report will still 
 be before the Convention. 
 
 The motion to lay upon the table was 
 lost. 
 
 The question then recurred upon the motion 
 of Mr. Secosibe. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I believe a motion 
 of that kind is debatable. I wish simply 
 to say that I am opposed to that motion 
 at present, for the reason that I know 
 that there are gentlemen here who have 
 amendments they desire to propose ; and 
 it looks exceedingly ungentlemanly, to say 
 the least of it, for gentlemen to make propo- 
 sitions, and speak time after time in violation 
 of the rules of this body, and then move the 
 provious question and attempt to deprive 
 other members of equal rights. I hope the 
 motion will not prevail. Every member 
 should have the right to move any amend- 
 ment he sees fit. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I have not moved the 
 previous question for the purpose of cutting 
 off anybody from offering any amendment 
 which I thought had any bearing upon this 
 subject. I moved the previous question for 
 the first time since I have been in the Con- 
 vention, and I did it because an amendment 
 was offered which was out of place, and every 
 principle of which had been decided by this 
 Convention after full discussion ; and I say 
 that to try to lug in any such proposition, 
 when it is entirely out of place, is improper, 
 to say the least of it. I should move the 
 previous question again under similar circum- 
 stances, and if I ever bring in such an amend- 
 ment, I will quietly submit to the prenous 
 question. The gentleman who moved the 
 amendment, himself voted for the previous 
 question. So I think no harm can be done 
 to anybody. 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Mr. Pbesident— 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I caU the gentleman to 
 order. He has spoken once. [Cries of 
 "leav«!" "leave!" 
 
 The PRESIDENT. If no objection is made 
 the gentleman from Steele wiU proceed. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I deny the right of 
 the gentleman from Fillmore, or any other 
 man, to dictate to me in regard to the propri- 
 ety of introducing an amendment at any time 
 
330 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 5. 
 
 I think proper. I deny the right of him or 
 any other man, to decide for mo when the 
 proper time is or is not, for me to introduce 
 an amendment. So far as the amendment in- 
 troduced by the gentleman from Winona (Mr. 
 Wilson) is concurred, I apprehend there is 
 no sane man who will pretend to say that that 
 amendment is not appropriate in this place, or 
 connected with this report. Here we are 
 treating upon banking corporations and others 
 not municipal. We are treating upon railroad 
 corporations and canal corporations, and all 
 others, of like kind and character; and it seems 
 to me that when amendments are introduced 
 which touch directly upon the rights and lia- 
 bilities of this kind of corporations, it does 
 not come with any degree of propriety, to say 
 the least of it, for any man to get up and say 
 it is not proper — that it is clearly improper. 
 It is true that an amendment of that kind 
 was proposed to be inserted in the bill of 
 rights, and I voted against it at the time for the 
 reason that I thought the bill of rights was 
 not its proper place. I thought that anything 
 connected with the right of way, anything 
 connected with the assessment of damages in 
 regard to the right of way to be taken by any 
 company, was appropriate imder the head of 
 corporations other than municipal. That is 
 my opinion now, and it is for that reason I 
 say that the amendment introduced by the 
 gentleman from Winona was offered in its 
 proper place. 
 
 I know there are other gentlemen who have 
 amendments which are proper at this time 
 and in this place, but as I said before, it may 
 be according to the disposition or nature of 
 certain gentlemen, after occupying the floor, 
 time after time, to undertake to move the pre- 
 vious question and cut off the rights and 
 privileges of others. I tell them, they, in the 
 future, better beware. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I have not undertaken, 
 nor do I undertake to dictate to any man 
 when the proper time is to offer an amendment. 
 I have not attempted to dictate to the gentle- 
 man from Steele County (Mr. Coggswell), or 
 to the gentleman from Winona County (Mr. 
 Wilson). 
 
 The President will recollect that I withdrew 
 two motions in order to allow gentlemen to 
 offer amendments. But I want the gentle- 
 man from Steele County to understand, neither 
 
 shall I allow him to dictate to me, when it is 
 proper to move the previous question. When 
 I do not undertake to dictate, I shall not be 
 dictated to. I believe it is proper for me or 
 any other gentleman of this Convention, if he 
 believes an amendment is not introduced in 
 the proper place, to say so. If I have offend- 
 ed in so saying, I plead guilty, for I did say 
 it. I think the amendment was not offered 
 in a proper place, and I said so. The gentle- 
 man from Steele County differs with me, but 
 I claim the same right he does. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I want to say that the 
 modesty — I would not dare to give its true 
 name — that induces a man to stand up here 
 and say " in my judgment amendments are 
 " proper, and I shall not attempt to shut them 
 "off"— such modesty is examplary truly. 
 When this amendment was offered before to 
 the Bill of Rights, the gentleman could not say 
 what he would do upon its merits, but that- it 
 was not in its proper place in the Bill of 
 Rights and upon that groimd he would vote 
 against it. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN, I did not say any such 
 thing. I was not in favor of the proposition 
 itself. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I said the gentleman said 
 he should vote upon it upon the ground that 
 it was not in its proper place ; and now to-day 
 he says it is not in its proper place — thus con- 
 tradicting himseff. Here is modesty in the 
 extreme; becoming, though, in some — very 
 modest I 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The question is upon 
 ordering the bill to be engrossed for a third 
 reading. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I was not present during 
 the whole discussion upon this article. It 
 seems to me that the sixth section should bo 
 further amended, and I hope that in some 
 manner it will be done before the report is 
 ordered to be engrossed. Though I am in 
 favor of general laws as fei" as practicable, I 
 think there are cases where there may bo a 
 necessity for special laws, such .as charters 
 for railroad and other companies of a like 
 character, where the object can be attained 
 more conveniently by a special than by a gen- 
 eral law. There are many cases where the 
 Legislature find great diflBculty in framing gen- 
 eral laws to apply to proper objects of legisla- 
 tion. I recollect there was a bill before the Leg- 
 
MIXXESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES^Wedxesdat, AuGuspr 5. 
 
 331 
 
 islature last winter, authorizing the erection of 
 a dam upon a certain river of this Territory. 
 It was a proper subject of legislation ; it was 
 a matter which was needed and desired by 
 the whole community. There was an effort 
 made to get up a general law which should 
 cover that case, and aU other cases of a like 
 nature. One gentleman said to me that he 
 worked upon it for several days, and found it 
 almost, if not quite impossible to frame such 
 a law ; and that it was much easier to frame 
 a special enactment. I have no doubt that 
 that is a very common difficulty. Whether 
 it is or not, cases will arise which general laws 
 will not cover, and to tie up the legislative 
 body so that it cannot provide for such cases, 
 would be imwise. 
 
 Agam, the section provides that all judicial 
 laws, or special acts passed in pursuance 
 thereof may be altered from time to time or 
 repealed. Now if that means all that its lan- 
 guage could be construed to mean, it would 
 not be safe for any corporation to do any 
 business whatever under any charter that 
 might be given them by general laws in this 
 State, because their vested rights would not 
 save them at all — ^the Legislature having the 
 power by this article, to repeal, alter, or 
 amend the law at their pleasure. We cer- 
 tainly ought not to put things in such a shape 
 as that. I do not see the necessity for any 
 such provision in the Constitution. It is 
 enough that the Legislature throws sufficient 
 guard aroimd that right of alteration or re- 
 peal when they pass the law. 
 
 And here I reiterate the idea often ex- 
 pressed, but not regarded as it should be, 
 that we are proceeding to legislate too much 
 in the Constitution. I am receiving letters 
 from all parts of the country, from some of 
 the wisest heads in the Territory, continually 
 cautioning me against legislating in the Con- 
 stitution. The people of the Territory are 
 thinking about it, and feel concerned thuat we 
 are going too far m that direction. I hope we 
 shall pause before we consummate too much 
 of that kind of legislation. 
 
 Mr. KING. I want some considerable al- 
 teration made in this report before it is or- 
 dered to be engrossed. If it goes into the 
 Constitution as it now stands, it will knock off 
 considerable many votes from ovu* Constitu- 
 tion, because any man who understands the 
 
 nature of legislation, will see that sections 
 three, fovu*, and five, are mere legislation, and 
 if they go before the people they will be 
 judged of and voted for or against, according 
 to their merits ; every man judging of them 
 according to his own notions. I think we 
 should pause and look at this thing a little 
 more carefully, and see if it is not best to 
 strike them out. The Constitution will cer- 
 tainly get a much better vote with them out, 
 than with them in. 
 
 The question was then taken on the motion 
 to order the report to be engrossed, and it 
 was decided in the negative. 
 
 Mr. CoGGSwELL offered the following as an 
 additional section : 
 
 "Sec. — . No right of way ahall be taken by, 
 or appropriated to, any corporation, until a fair 
 compensation shall have been paid or tendered to 
 the owner thereof, and also all damages sustained 
 by reason of the taking or appropriating of the 
 same ; and in no case shaU any benefit or supposed 
 benefit which may arise by reason of the construc- 
 tion of any Canal, Railroad, or other internal im- 
 provement, be taken into the account in estimating 
 the amount of the same." 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would inquire if that 
 amendment is not identically the same with 
 the one offered by the gentleman fix)m Wino- 
 na (Mr. Wilson) ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The same in substance, 
 but not the same in language. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. In my judgment, 
 there is quite a difference ; but I do not pro- 
 pose to go on and point out that difference, 
 I desire the yeas and nays upon the adoption 
 of my amendment, as an additional section. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being put it was decided in the nega- 
 tive — yeas 15, nays 30, as follows : 
 
 Yeoi. — Messrs. Anderson, Baldwin, Coggswell, 
 ederstam, Davis, Duley, Gerrish, Harding, King, 
 Kemp, Mantor, McCann, McKune, Mills, and Wil- 
 son. — 15. 
 
 Jtays. — Messrs. Ayer, Balcombe, Bates, Bartho- 
 lomew, Billings, Colburn, Dickerson, Eschlie, Fos- 
 ter, Folsom, Galbraith, Hayden, Hudson, Hanson, 
 Holley, Lyie, McClure Morgan, Murphy, North, 
 Phelps, Perkins, Putnam, Russell, Stannard, Se- 
 combe. Smith, Thompson, Vaughn, Sheldon. — 30. 
 
 So the amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move to strike out 
 section six. , 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I rise to a point of order. 
 That motion has been once made and voted 
 down. 
 
83^ 
 
 MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES- Wednesday, August 5. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. A motion was made 
 to strike out section seven. 
 
 Mr. COGGS WEi.L. I move to amend the 
 motion, by so modifying it as to strike out the 
 following words from section six : 
 
 " All general laws or special acts passed in pur- 
 suance of this section, may be altered from time to 
 time or repealed." 
 
 So far as, the first part of the section is 
 concerned, it is right and proper in my judg- 
 ment. So far as the latter portion is con- 
 cerned, while there may be cases, where, per- 
 haps, it would be proper for a Legislature to 
 repeal certain acts conferring upon corpora- 
 tions vested rights, I am satisfied that there 
 might be times when this latter part of that 
 section would be unconstitutional. But the 
 first part of the section is right and proper, 
 and will prevent all this special legislation, of 
 which we have heard so much. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. When the committee 
 had this section under consideration, they did 
 not consider that it would authorize the Leg- 
 islature to interfere with vested rights ; but as 
 one member of that committee, I have no par- 
 ticular objection to its being stricken out. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I suggest to the gentle- 
 man from Steele county, to allow the vote to 
 be first taken upon the motion of the gentle- 
 man from Chisago (Mr. Stannard,) to strike 
 out the whole section. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I withdraw my 
 amendment for that purpose. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Before the motion to 
 strike out is put, I have a word to say. I 
 am perfectly indifferent, to say the least, 
 about it, except to this extent, that I do not 
 see what effect the section will have. It may 
 be that it will show our good intentions. It 
 seems to me very much like the man saying 
 to his son, " here, you go and do this, and if 
 «' you don't please, you needn't." It says, 
 " corporations for purposes other than bank- 
 "ing may be formed by general laws" — that 
 is, the Legislature shall have the power. Is 
 that conferring a power upon the Legislature, 
 which they did not possess ? If they did not 
 possess it, that part is all well. " But shall 
 *' not be created by special act except for mu- 
 " nicipal purposes, and in cases where in the 
 "judgment of the Legislature the object of 
 " the corporation cannot be attained under 
 " general laws." Now here the Legislature 
 
 are constituted a jury to judge of the facts, 
 and they will judge of them from the repre- 
 sentations of those desiring corporations ; and 
 there are no persons desiring corporations but 
 what want special charters. Most of the old 
 States have these general corporation laws 
 now, and yet every corporation goes right to 
 the Legislature and asks for a special charter. 
 We have a general law now upon the statute 
 book of this Territory, and I defy any man to 
 form a corporation under it, worth anything. 
 For the Legislature to form a general law at 
 one session, which will cover manufacturing, 
 mining and lumbering business, is impossible. 
 But say you, they can alter and amend. Of 
 course they may, but they must alter or 
 amend it at every session, or they defeat the 
 objects the corporations desire to attain. If 
 it is our intention to say that no special act 
 shall be passed, let us say so, and that will 
 do, and will tie the Legislature's hands. The 
 only difficulty I have in voting for the section 
 is, that I cannot see that it is anything but 
 permissive. This does not make it compul- 
 sory upon the Legislature to pass a general 
 law, if they choose not to do so. And sup- 
 pose they should go to work and pass any 
 number of special charters, would this section 
 prohibit them ? Not at all. What, then, the 
 need of the section ? Is there any rule laid 
 down by which you could test the judgment 
 of the Legislature ? Suppose they pass a spe- 
 cial charter for an iron company, and some- 
 body contests the constitutionality, how 
 would you bring it before the Supreme Court 
 under section six? It only shows the good 
 will of this Convention. That is the only ob- 
 jection I have to it. It can do no harm. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. As this section has been 
 said to be an unusual one, I would like to 
 refer to a few Constititutions upon that point 
 — that is upon the latter part of it. It is not 
 by any means a new provision, though I 
 know that many Constitutions have no such 
 provision in them. I think it is perfectly 
 right, and a wholesome provision. Look at 
 the influence of many of those corporations. 
 How many States would be glad to circum- 
 scribe them ? The Constitutions of New 
 York, Michigan, and Wisconsin, have each 
 this same provision. As said by the Chair- 
 man of the committee, it will not interfere 
 with vested rights, nor will any person say 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 5. 
 
 833 
 
 so, after looking at it. It merely gives the 
 Legislature the power, after thei granting 
 those corporation powers, to modily those 
 powers if necessary. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I would ask whether 
 the Legislature, without such a clause as this, 
 would not, in all cases, have the right to alter 
 or repeal, provided they did not interfere with 
 vested rights ? 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I do not think they would. 
 They cannot change, alter, modify or repeal, 
 unless the other party permits them so to do. 
 I believe the Legislature has no right to inter- 
 fere with any charter, unless that charter 
 itself contains a clause, that they shall have 
 the right to do so. 
 
 The question was then taken on the motion 
 to strike out section six, and it was not 
 agreed to. 
 
 Mr. COGGS WELL. I now move to strike 
 out the following words from section six : 
 
 "All general laws or special acts passed in pur- 
 suance of this section may be altered from time 
 to time or repealed." 
 
 Mr. STANNARD demanded the yeas 
 and nays, but they were refused. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 And then the report was ordered to be 
 engrossed for a third reading. 
 
 Mr. THOMPSON moved, (at half past'four 
 o'clock) that the Convention adjourn. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 IMPEACHMENT AND BEMOVAL FBOM OFFICE. 
 
 On motion of Mr. COLBURN, the Conven- 
 tion resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole, (Mr. Hatdex in the Chair) upon the 
 report of the committes upon Impeachments 
 and Removal from OflBce. (For report see 
 proceedings of July thirty-first.) 
 
 The report was read through by sections 
 for amendment. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I move to strike out 
 section six. The section is as follows : 
 
 " For reasonable cause, which shall not be suflS- 
 cient ground for the impeachment of a Judge, the 
 Governor shall remove him on a concurrent reso- 
 lution of two-thirds of the members elected to 
 each House of the Legislature ; but the cause for 
 which such removal is required shall be stated at 
 length in such resolution." 
 
 I hardly think it is necessary to 'give the 
 Governor and the Legislature the power of 
 removing a judge, where there is not suffi- 
 
 cient ground of impeachment. There seems 
 to be too much verbiage in this report, and I 
 would like to get rid of as much of it as pos- 
 sible. That section, at any rate, seems to 
 me to be unnecessary. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the motion will 
 not prevail. I believe it is a very necessary 
 provision. There are cases where there 
 would not be considered sufficient legal cause 
 for impf achment ; or in other words, where 
 an impeachment would not be successful, 
 wherein the sense of the community would 
 demand a removal, t do believe that it is 
 necessary to have this section retained. Ca- 
 ses of successful impeachments of judges, 
 either by Congress, or by the Legislature of 
 any State, are very rare, and yet I believe 
 there are plenty of cases where judges ought 
 to be impeached ; or if they cannot be im- 
 peached, ought to be removed. And the 
 restriction here is of such a nature that I do 
 not think it would be injurious to the cause 
 of justice. It requires the concurrent resolu- 
 tion of two-thirds of the members of each 
 House. 
 
 The motion to strike out was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE moved to add the following 
 additional section : 
 
 " Sec. 8. No person shall be removed or sus- 
 pended from any office, without first having had 
 notice in writing of the specific charge or accusa- 
 tion preferred against him and opportunity to be 
 heard in his defence." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to amend section 
 seven by inserting the word " general " be- 
 fore the word "law," so that the Legislature 
 shall provide by general law for the removal 
 of coxmty and township officers. The object 
 is to prevent the Legislature from making a 
 special law to apply to a particular case. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR moved to strike out from 
 the third section the words : 
 
 " No impeachment shall be tried until the fina 1 
 adjournment of the Legislature, when the Senate 
 shall proceed to try the same." 
 
 The amendment was agi'eed to. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I move that the com- 
 mittee rise and report the report and amend- 
 ments to the Convention. 
 
 Mr. COGGS WELL. I hope the gentleman 
 will withdraw that motion until I can move to 
 
384 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 5. 
 
 insert certain words which I find in the Wis- 
 consin Constitution, for I wish this to be ex- 
 actly like that. (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH withdrew his motion. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move to amend the 
 third clause of section two relating to the dis- 
 qualifications arising out of impeachment, by 
 inserting after the word " ofiice," the words : 
 "and disqualification to hold any oflice of 
 " honor, profit, or trust vmder the State." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I am opposed to that 
 amendment. It seems to me, if the Legisla- 
 tiu:e' should impeach a Governor aAd remove 
 him from oflBce, and the people should subse- 
 quently elect him to be Governor of the State, 
 he ought to be able to hold that ofiice, and not 
 be deprived of that privilege because a part 
 of the Legislature perhaps, had impeached and 
 removed him. Cases might occur where from 
 political acrimony, and difficulties grown up 
 between a Legislature and some ofiicer of 
 State, they had proceeded to impeach him, 
 and the people might not sustain the Legisla- 
 ture, but the other party. It strikes me that 
 in such ar case, the will of the people should 
 be obeyed and the ofiicer be allowed if sub- 
 sequently elected to office, to hold it. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. GALBRAITH, 
 the committee rose and reported the report 
 and amendment to the Convention with a re- 
 commendation that the amendment be con- 
 curred in. 
 
 The question was severally taken on the 
 amendment made by the committee, and they 
 were respectively concurred in. 
 
 The report was then ordered to be engross' 
 ed for a third reading. 
 
 KEPORT OF COMMITTEES. 
 
 Mr. WILSON from the committee on Ju- 
 diciary made the following report which was 
 read a first and second time and laid on the 
 table to be printed, viz : 
 
 Skc. 1. The Court for the trial of impeachments 
 shall be composed of the Senate. The House of 
 Representatives shall have the power of impeach- 
 ing all Civil Officers of this State for corrupt con- 
 duct in office, or for crimes and misdemeanors — 
 but a majority of all the members elected shal' 
 concur in such impeachment. On the trial of an 
 impeachment against the Governor, the Lieuten- 
 ant Governor shall not act as a member of the 
 Court. No Judicial Officer shall exercise his office 
 after he shall have been impeached until bis ac- 
 
 quittal. Before the trial of an impeachment the 
 members of the Court shall take an oath or affir- 
 mation truly and impartially to try the ijnpeach- 
 ment according to evidence, and no person shall 
 be convicted without the concurrence of two-thirds 
 of the members present. Judgment in case of im- 
 peachment shall not extend further than to remo- 
 val from office, or removal and disqualification to 
 hold any office of honor, profit or trust, under the 
 State, but the party impeached shall be liable to 
 indictment, trial and punishment according to law. 
 Sec. 2. The Judicial power of this State both 
 as to matters of law and equity, shall be invested * 
 in a Supreme Court, Circuit Courts, Probate 
 Courts, and in Justices of the Peace. Municipal 
 Courts of limited Criminal and Civil jurisdiction, 
 may also be established by the Legislature in Cities 
 — Provided, That Municipal Courts shall not have 
 jurisdiction in their respective municipalities to 
 exceed the jurisdiction of Circuit Courts, in their 
 respective Circuits. The Judges of the Municipal 
 Courts shall be elected by the qualified electors of 
 their respective jurisdictions, and for a term not 
 longer than that of the Judges of the Circuit 
 Courts. 
 
 Sec. 3. The Supreme Court shall consist of 
 three Judges, a majority of whom shall constitute 
 a quorum and a concurrence of two of said Judges 
 shall in all cases be necessary to a decision. The 
 Judges of the Supreme Court shall be elected for 
 the term of nine years. 
 
 Sec. 4. The Supreme Court except in cases 
 otherwise provided in this Constitution shall have 
 appellate jurisdiction only ; but in no case remov- 
 ed to the Supreme Court, shall have a general su- 
 pervisory control over all inferior Courts. It shall 
 have power to issue writs of habeas corptcs, man- 
 damus, pj'oMhition, quo ivarratito, certiorari, and 
 other original remedial writs, and to bear and de- 
 termine the same ; its jurisdiction shall be co-ex- 
 tensive with the State. 
 
 Sec. 5. The State shall be divided into three 
 districts — such districts shall be formed of conti- 
 guous territory, as nearly equal population as, 
 without dividing a County, the same can be jnade. " 
 One of the Judges of the Supreme Court shall be 
 elected by the qualified electors of each district, 
 and he shall reside therein during his continuance 
 in office. 
 
 Sec. 6. The office of one of the Judges shall be 
 vacated at the expiration of the third year — of 
 another at the expiration of the sixth year — of the 
 third at the expiration of the ninth year, so that 
 one of the Judges of the Supreme Court shall bo 
 elected every third year. 
 
 Sec. 7. The Secretary of State, on receiving 
 the official returns of the first election shall pro- 
 ceed immediately in the presence, and with the as- 
 sistance of two Justices of the Peace to determine 
 by lot, among the three candidates having the 
 highest number of votes in their respective dis- 
 ricts, which of the Judges elect shall serve for the 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesdat, August 5. 335 
 
 tenn of three yeats, which shall serve for the term 
 of six jears, and which for the term of nine years • 
 and the Governor shall issue commissions accord- 
 ingly. And the Judge whose commission expires 
 in three years shall be Chief Justice during his 
 term of office, and after him the Judge senior in 
 commission shall be Chief Justice. 
 
 Skc. 8. The Supreme Court shall upon the de- 
 cision of every case give a statement in writing of 
 each question arising in the record of such case and 
 the decison of the Court thereon. 
 
 Sec. 9. The Legislature shall provide by law 
 for the speedy publication of the decisions of the 
 Supreme Court under this Constitution. All Ju- 
 dicial decisions shall be free for publication by any 
 person. 
 
 Sec. 10. The Supreme Court shall hold at least 
 one term annually in each district of the State at 
 such time and place as may be provided by law. 
 
 Sec. 11. There shall be chosen by the qualified 
 electors of each district of the State, one Clerk of 
 the Supreme Court, who shall hold his office for 
 the term of three years, and until his successor is 
 duly elected and qualified. Provided, That a Clerk 
 of the Circuit Court may be elected Clerk of the 
 Supreme Court, »nd the Judges of the Supreme 
 Court, or a majority of them, shall have the power 
 to fill any vacancy in the office of Clerk of the 
 Supreme Court, until an election can be regularly 
 had. 
 
 Sec. 12. The Circuit Court shall have original 
 jurisdiction in all matters, civil and criminal within 
 this State, not excepted in this Constitution, aad 
 not prohibited by law, and appellate jurisdiction 
 from all inferior Courts and tribunals, and a su- 
 pervisory control of the same. They shall also 
 have power to issue writs of Jiaheas corpus, man- 
 damus, injunction, quo warranto, certiorari, and 
 other writs necessary to carry into eflfect their 
 orders, judgments, and decrees, and to give them 
 a general control of inferior Courts [and tribunals 
 within their respective jurisdictions. 
 
 Sec. 13. The State shall be divided by counties 
 into six judicial circuits. A judge for each circuit 
 shall be elected by the voters thereof for the term 
 of six years. He shall reside within the circuit for 
 which he was elected during his continuance in 
 office. The Legislature may by law, increase the 
 nunjber of circuits as may become necessary. 
 
 Sec. li. ^^^^ circuit judge shall hold Court at 
 least twice a yeai',^° every county within his cir- 
 cuit organized for judiciJ!^ purposes. The judges 
 of the circuit court may hold tt.''^''^s for each other, 
 and shall do so when required by laT- 
 
 Sec. 15. There shall be elected by ih^ qualified 
 electors of each county organized for judiciiil pur- 
 poses one clerk of the circuit court, who shall hold 
 Ms office for two years, and until his successor 
 shall be elected and qualified. The judges of any 
 circuit court shall fill any vacancy in the office of 
 clerk until the same can be filled by an election. 
 
 The county clerk may be chosen or elected clerk 
 of the circuit court. 
 
 Sec 16. No person shall be eligible to the office 
 of judge of any court of this State, who is not a 
 citizen of the United States, who shall not have 
 resided in this State two years next preceding 
 his election, and who shall not at the time of the 
 election be a qualified elector of the district, cir- 
 cuit or county, in which he may be a candidate for 
 election ; nor shall any person be elected judge of 
 the supreme court who shall not have attained the 
 age of thirty years ; and no person shall be eligible 
 to the office of judge of the circuit court until he 
 shall have attained the age of twenty-six vears. 
 Pi-owhd, that at the first election under this Con- 
 stitution a longer residence in this State than one* 
 year shall not be required in order to be eligible 
 to the office of judge of any court. 
 
 Sec. 17. The judges of the supreme and circuit 
 courts of this State shall receive at stated times a 
 compensation, which shall not be diminished 
 during their continuance in office. 
 
 Sec. is. There shall be elected in each judicial 
 circuit, by the voters, thereof, a prosecuting attor- 
 ney, who shall hold his office for the term of two 
 years, and until his successor is elected and quali- 
 fied, and his duties and compensations shall be 
 prescribed by law. 
 
 Sec. 19. There shall be established in each 
 county organized for judicial purposes, a probate 
 court, holden by one judge, elected by the voters 
 of the county, who shall hold his office for the 
 term of two years, and until his successor is elected 
 and qualified. He shall receive such compensation 
 as shall be prescribed by law. 
 
 Sec. 20. The probate court shall have jurisdic- 
 tion in probate and testamentary matters, the ap- 
 pointment of administrators and guardians, the 
 settlement of the accounts of executors, adminis- 
 trators, and guardians, and for the sale of lands 
 by executors, administrators, and guardians, and 
 such other jurisdiction in probate and testamentary 
 matters as may be prescribed by law. 
 
 Sec 21. The supreme court, circuit courts, and 
 probate courts shall be courts of record and have 
 a common seaL 
 
 Sec 22. The several judges of the supreme 
 and circuit courts, and of such other courts as 
 may be created, shall respectively have and exer- 
 cise such power of jurisdiction at chambers as 
 may be directed by law. 
 
 Sec 23. The Legislature shall have power to 
 vest in the clerks of the supreme and circuit 
 courts, or of such other courts as Ihay be estab- 
 lished by the Legislature, authority to grant such 
 orders and do such acts as may be deemed neces- 
 sary for the furtherance of the administration of 
 justice, but in all cases the powers thus granted 
 shall be specific and determined. 
 
 Sec 2-L In case the office of any judge shall • 
 become vacant before the expiration of the regu- 
 lar term for which he was elected, the vacancy 
 
336 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thubsdat, August 6. 
 
 shall be filled by appointment of the Governor 
 until a successor is elected and qualified, and such 
 successor shall be elected for the unexpired term 
 at the first annual election that occurs more than 
 thirty days after the vacancy shall have happened. 
 
 Sec. 25. A competent number of justices of the 
 peace shall be elected by the electors in the several 
 counties. Their term of oflBce shall be two years, 
 and their powers and duties shall be regulated by 
 law. 
 
 Sec. 26. There shall be an attorney general 
 elected by the voters of the State, whose term of 
 ofiice shall be two years, and until his successor is 
 elected and qualified, and whose duties shall be 
 prescribed by law. 
 
 Sec. 27. All judicial officers shall be conserva- 
 tors of the peace in their respective districts. 
 
 Sec. 28. If any cause shall be pending in the 
 supreme court in which any two of the judges 
 thereof shall be personally interested, the Gover- 
 nor shall appoint competent persons to act as 
 judges during the trial of such cause, in the place 
 of the judges thus interested. 
 
 Sec. 29. The style of all process shall be " The 
 People of the State of Minnesota," and all prose- 
 cutions shall be conducted in the name and by the 
 authority of the same. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. Noeth, (at 
 five o'clock and ten minutes) the Convention 
 adjourned. 
 
 TWENTY-SECOND DAY. 
 
 Thursday, August 6th, 1857. 
 The Convention met at 9 o'clock, a. m. 
 Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. E. D. Neill. 
 The journal of yesterday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 REPORTS. 
 
 Mr. LOWE, from the committee upon State 
 Seal and Coat of Arms, made the following re- 
 port, which was read a first and second time 
 and laid upon the table to be printed, viz : 
 
 "Your committee would report that they have 
 taken the subject devolved upon them into consid- 
 eration, and have procured a design for a Seal and 
 Coat of Arms, from a competent person, and would 
 recommend the adoption of the same. For a moro 
 particular knowledge of the device your committee 
 would refer to the design itself which accompanies 
 this report, but would say in general that it repre- 
 sents a waterfall, (supposed to be that of Minne- 
 haha,) within a shield. This part of the device is 
 intended to symbolize the idea of water, for the 
 amount and varied forms of which Minnesota is 
 distinguished above any other part of our country, 
 and probably above any other part of the world. 
 In addition, is represented the figure of an Indian, 
 
 with his face turned towards the setting sun, and 
 with his tomahawk and bow and arrows at his feet. 
 Opposite the Indian is the figure of a white man, 
 with a sheaf of wheat and some of the implements 
 of agriculture at his feet. The Indian is represen- 
 ted as asking of the white man, by an imploring 
 gesture, whither he shall go, and the white man is 
 responding by pointing to the- implements of ag- 
 riculture, as indicating that he must now assume 
 the habits of civilized life. In one corner of the 
 field appears a distant view of Lake Superior, with 
 a ship in sail. In another is a view of a river, 
 (which may be supposed to be the Minnesota,) run- 
 ning to the westward, with a steamboat ascending 
 its stream. In rear of the shield and waterfall, 
 three pine trees are placed, which are typical of 
 the three great pine regions — the St. Croix, the 
 Mississippi, and Lake Superior. 
 
 " For a motto to accompany the words, ' State of 
 Minnesota, A. D. 1857,' which are placed upon the 
 upper rim of the seal, only two phrases have sug- 
 gested themselves to your committee as suitable. 
 One is the expression from one of the Latin poets. 
 ' Fulget intaminatia honoribus f which may be 
 thus translated : She, or it, (Minnesota) shines or 
 is refulgent with untarnished honors. This would 
 be more significant and appropriate than most of 
 the Latin mottoes placed upon the seals of the 
 States, but the one the committee have placed upon 
 the design accompanying the report, and which 
 they recommend for adoption, is taken from a cele- 
 brated speech of one of the greatest of our Orators, 
 and which, as giving expression to the two great 
 id? as which have always swayed the American mind, 
 and always must sway it, they think well worthy to 
 be forever linked with the fortunes and memory of 
 the State of Minnesota. ' Liberty and Union, now 
 and forever .' 
 
 " The committee would remark that the principal 
 feature of the seal, that of the waterfall has been 
 suggested to them by a number of the members of 
 the Convention. For the accessory features of 
 the seal, they are indebted in great part to the 
 suggestion of an artist and designer of this city, 
 to whom they are happy, on this occasion, to ac- 
 knowledge their obligations — Mr. R. Ormsby Swee- 
 ney." 
 
 Mr. KEMP, from the committee to whom 
 was referred the subject of official salaries, 
 made the following report, which was read a 
 first and second time and laid upon table to 
 be printed, viz : 
 
 "That as many, if not all other reports, in which 
 there is reference made to State Offices, they have 
 provided for the compensation of the same by 
 leaving it to the Legislature. 
 
 " We would therefore merely recommend : 
 
 "That all salaries of State Officers shall be 
 fixed by the State Legislature at its first 8cs.<«ion. 
 With this recommendation your committee would 
 respectfully osk that they may be discharged." 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thcbsdat, Acqcst 6. 
 
 837 
 
 ELECTIVE FRANCHISE. 
 
 On motion of Mr. COLBCRN, the Con- 
 vention resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole, (Mr. Sjiith in the Chair) to take into 
 consideration the report of the committee on 
 the Elective Franchise. 
 
 (For report, see proceedings of July 30.) 
 
 The first section of the report was read as 
 follows : 
 
 "Sectiox 1. Every white male inhabitant o' 
 the age of twenty -one years and upwards, (ex- 
 cepting persons under guardianship, and persons 
 of unsound mind) who shall have resided in the 
 State six months, and town, ward or precinct, in 
 which he may claim the right to vote, ten days 
 next preceding any election shaU be entitled to 
 vote at such election, if he be a citizen of the 
 Uhited States, or if he has been an inhabitant of 
 the United States for two years next preceding the 
 election at which he may claim the right to vote; 
 or if he shall be an inhabitant of this State at the 
 adoption of this Constitution. Provided always, 
 that no person of foreign birth — and not a citizen 
 of the United States — shall be a qualified elector 
 until he shall have declared his intention to be- 
 come a citizen in conformity with the laws of the 
 United States on the subject of naturalization." 
 
 Mr. MESSER. Mr. Chairman, I move to 
 amend the article by striking out the word 
 " white" in the first line, and upon that amend- 
 ment I desire to submit a few remarks. 
 
 The sentiment declared in the Declaration 
 of Independence that all governments among 
 men derive their just powers fi"om the consent 
 of the governed ; that all men are created fi*ee 
 and equal ; I am aware are called by modem 
 sages, rhetorical flourishes. But I believe 
 they are sentiments which will flourish long 
 after the author of them has been forgotten. 
 Sir, I believe that in the insertion of this word 
 white into our Constitution, we should be 
 adopting a principle which would be striking 
 at the dearest rights a man can enjoy under 
 our government — the elective franchise. The 
 word " white," in this connection, has prac- 
 tically no meaning, although it refers to men 
 of color, or descendents from the Afirican race. 
 But there is nothing definite in regard to it, 
 as might easily be shown. 
 
 I wish to allude to some of reasons which 
 are urged by those who would insert this 
 word here, why it should be so inserted. One 
 reason which I have heard urged by mem- 
 bers of this body, and which I hear urged 
 everywhere, where this question is discussed, 
 43 
 
 is that those to whom it applies are negroes. 
 WTien you ask why they should not enjoy 
 the right of elective firanchise, you are told 
 that they are negroes. That is the alpha and 
 omega of their objection. Now sir, this rea- 
 son, potent as it may be in the minds of those 
 who ui^ it, is no reason in my mind why 
 that class should be deprived of this highest 
 privilege under our government. 
 
 Another reason urged is that the colored 
 man is inferior to the white man ; that he was 
 made such by his Creator, and therefore he 
 should not enjoy that privilesre. In despo- 
 tism the principle is that " might makes right;" 
 but imder a Republican form of government 
 justice holds the scales, and the poor man's 
 vote weighs as much as the rich man's. The 
 vote of the humblest individual in the com- 
 munity, poor though he may be, ignorant and 
 unlettered as he may be, will weigh as much 
 as the vote of the wisest statesman in IJbe 
 government. And this principle is acknowl- 
 edged here in this body. 
 
 I do not propose to consume much of the 
 time of this Convention, because I know there 
 are other gentlemen in this body better qual- 
 ified than myself to discuss this question ; 
 but I desire to mx^ a few reasons why this 
 word should be stricken out, and why the 
 class of persons it proscribes should enjoy 
 this right of sufirage. In the first place, he 
 has committed no crime which should disfi^n- 
 chise him. He is responsible to this govern- 
 ment, and amenable to all its laws, for his 
 acts, and, therefore, he should have a voice 
 in its formation. It is said, in that declara- 
 tion which I have quoted, that " all govem- 
 " ments among men derive their just powers 
 " firom the consent of the governed." I am 
 not disposed to discuss here whether colored 
 persons are men or not. I believe it is con- 
 ceded in this body, that an immortal spirit 
 a human soul, may exist under a black, an 
 olive, or a white skin. Our revolutionary 
 fathers acknowledged that principle in the de- 
 claration of independence; and could those 
 lips speak now, they would acknowledge that 
 principle here to-day. 
 
 My second reason is, that colored men 
 stood shoulder to shoulder with white men 
 upon the battle-fields of the revolution. His 
 blood, equally with that of the white man, 
 enriches the soil of our common country. 
 
3S8 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursd at, August 6. 
 
 But while the white man was rewarded with 
 pensions while living, and monuments of mar- 
 ble when dead, the colored man has been 
 chained, fettered, and deprived of the dearest 
 ri^ts which can be enjoyed under this gov- 
 ernment — the right of suffrage. 
 
 The justice of the colored man's claim is 
 acknowledged here ; but say gentlemen, it is 
 not policy to strike out this word. I should 
 like to know whether it is our best policy to 
 barter truth for falsehood, and whether we 
 should make anything by compromising the 
 truth ? In every trade made with Satan, man 
 has been cheated, from Eden to Minnesota, 
 and ever will be. If we attempt to barter 
 away what we know to be right, for what we 
 know to be wrong, I believe we shall be cheat- 
 ed. (Hear ! hear ! ) Are we fearful that the 
 colored man will gain an ascendency in this 
 country ? I do not fear it ; and though I did 
 fear it, I would still argue upon the side of 
 justice, and would give all the races upon the 
 earth a fair field, and not attempt to throw 
 obstacles in the way of the elevation of any 
 race. Let the force of intellect and mind 
 carry them up to the highest point of their 
 development. 
 
 I believe, too, that by striking out this word 
 we shall gain strength in presenting our Con- 
 stitution to the people of the Territory. By 
 striking it out, we shall make our Constitu- 
 tion a Sampson in strength ; but with the 
 word in, a Sampson shorn of his locks, and 
 the sport of the Philistine Democracy. Many 
 have told me that they would not vote for a 
 Constiljition with this word in it ; and not 
 only so, but that they would use their influ- 
 ence against it. I beheve there is a majority 
 in this Territory who are opposed to the prin- 
 ciple which the insertion of this word estab- 
 lishes. I sincerely believe it, and I think we 
 shall find it to be so. 
 
 Furthermore, I believe that if two Consti- 
 tutions are to be submitted to the people, 
 there should be some point of issue between 
 them, and that we should start out with the 
 advantage which this principle, which I pro- 
 pose to establish, will give us ; and that we 
 should be able to say to the people that wo 
 present them with the very best Constitution 
 which it was in our power to frame, and one 
 which we believe they will approve of. 
 Though we should send out a Constitution 
 
 containing a principle which we know to be 
 wrong, yet there is a tribunal before wliich 
 this Constitution must go to be ratified — the 
 tribunal of conscience, and the tribunal of 
 Heaven ; and if it is not ratified there, it will 
 sooner or later be amended. It cannot stand. 
 There is no principle but that of truth and 
 justice which will stand the test of time. It 
 may stand for to-day, but sooner or later, 
 truth must triumph. Though we should fail 
 to-day, let us stand upon tliose principles 
 which must ultimately triumph, and which 
 our consciences, and our God will approve. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I have been looking with 
 considerable anxiety from day to day, since 
 this body assembled, to see this report of the 
 committee upon the Elective Franchise, and I 
 promised myself, when the time should arrive 
 for the consideration of this important matter, 
 that I should be found advocating the motion 
 which is now before the committee — the mo- 
 tion to strike out this word " white." , But I 
 find myself, from a prostration of my physi- 
 cal system, unable to advocate this measure, 
 as I could desire. Therefore I shall proceed 
 to make only a very few remarks, and in what I 
 do say, I wish to have it understood, now and 
 forever, that I am following out the dictates 
 of my head and my heart. There is no ques- 
 tion which has come before this body, which 
 has given occasion for so much feeling and 
 anxiety, as this one of striking out the word 
 "white" from the report of the committee 
 upon the Elective Franchise. It has given 
 rise to great political, as well as moral feeling, 
 
 Mr. President, were we here under differ- 
 ent circumstances, I should not attempt, at 
 this time, to adduce some argimients which 
 I propose now to do ; but when I look aroimd 
 me, and see a body of men, who are opposed 
 to all kinds of oppression, shrinking from ad- 
 vocating their real sentiments upon this sub- 
 ject, from the nonsensical fear which some 
 persons have, that we shall not be able to 
 carry our Constitution before the people, I 
 must say something. Many members of this 
 Convention cannot extricate themselves from 
 the dilemma in which this question places them, 
 except by the miserable pretext of policy. 
 The proposition is to strike out the word 
 "white" and thereby leave the Constitution 
 free from that odium and reproach to which 
 ■0 many Constitutions are subjected. This 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thijbsday, August 6. 
 
 839 
 
 word, when inserted in the Constitution is 
 . fraught with much meaning. It signifies a 
 restraint of liberty; and upon accoimt of 
 what? The color of the skin. "When this 
 word is stricken out of the Constitution, that 
 instrument means a very different thing. It 
 would then extend equal suffrage and equal 
 rights to all. The idea of an equality of rights 
 seems to have been the idea which prompted * 
 Washington, a Madison, a Monroe, a Jeffer- 
 son, a Franklin, and a host of venerable moj, 
 to rise and strike off the head of tyranny and 
 usurpation which seemed to be brooding over 
 them. "We have incorporated into oiu: Bill of 
 Bights those remarkable words that " all men 
 " are endowed by their creator with certain in- 
 " ahenable rights, among which them are life, 
 '* liberty and the pursuit of happiness," but 
 now the idea of conferring upon the colored 
 man such grave rights, seems to some men 
 to be preposterous. We have been taught to 
 look upon colored men in a ludicrous light. — 
 We find it difficult to give them a place in 
 our affections and esteem. We have looked 
 upon them as persons with whom we have 
 nothing to do, except to employ them in me- 
 nial offices for our benefit, — upon whom we 
 are to bestow nothing, but firom whom we are 
 to expect everything. It is not easy therefore, 
 to secure for them rights which they really 
 desire. Now it seems to be admitted here, 
 that colored men possess all, or nearly all 
 the natural qualities which go to make them 
 equal to us. They possess, in common with 
 us, the faculties to perceive, to appreciate, and 
 to admire. The black man has a mind to re- 
 flect, and to adore. He has the body of a 
 man, the functions of a man, and the mind of 
 a man. He has a heart which beats in sym- 
 pathy at the afflictions of his fellow man. He 
 is fed with the same kind of food, warmed by 
 the same sun and breathes the same air- 
 Prick him and he will bleed, tickle him and he 
 will laugh, and administer to him the poisoned 
 chalice and he will die. If then he has a na- 
 ture like ours, let us seek to elevate him 
 through this Constitution. If we do not, let 
 us secure him, at once, a kingdom by himself. 
 Down-trodden as he may be, let him have a 
 sun of his own. But do not, you proud au- 
 tocrats of the Territory of Minnesota, place 
 your iron heel upon the colored man, and 
 swear that he does not possess any vested 
 
 rights, which you are bound to" respect To 
 strike out the word "white'' from the Con- 
 stitution, and leave it to the people to say 
 whether they will or will not accept it, wil 
 not be hazarding the reputation of a body of 
 men whose opinions I very much admire, and 
 whose calm deliberations and judgment I very 
 much respect. I mean the Republican party, 
 which this day possesses a political faith pre- 
 eminently above all fi^ctional and sectional 
 parties, — a party which I have been taught 
 to believe to be right upon all questions of 
 poUtical importance. With the people I am 
 willing to rest the whole thing. 
 
 But sir, to make a man's political rights de- 
 pendent upon his color, is whimsical and arbi- 
 trary. You might as well object to a man's 
 possessing the right of suffrage because he 
 happened to be bom on the last day of the 
 year, or because he was not bom on the fourth 
 da}' of July. It would be just as reasonable 
 as to exclude a man fi-om the right because 
 he happens to be black. It is but a very few 
 years since a large number of men through- 
 out the country declared that they dissolved 
 all connection with that class of men who 
 happened to be foreign bom, and their poKti- 
 cal rights were proscribed on account of their 
 foreign birth. That class of proscriptionists 
 assumed a political name, and established 
 certain signs whereby they might know each 
 other in the dark as well as in the light, 
 " Know-Nothingism " was inscribed upon 
 their banner, and their motto was " The flag 
 * of our Union." That political party soon 
 'began to win. But a revulsion soon took 
 place, and popular opinion began greatly to 
 change, and that whole political party wiU 
 soonsink to the earth. And I am astonished 
 in looking at this report to find the names of 
 three men attached to it who are of foreign 
 birth. Now, gentlemen, I appeal to you to- 
 day to think upon this subject. How is it 
 that men, who a few days ago, as it were, 
 were proscribed in this very respect, come 
 now before this body and attach their names 
 to a report which will disfiranchise a certain 
 portion of our citizens ? But, sir, those who 
 oppose equal suffrage to colored men, possess 
 less liberality even than those who proscribe 
 foreigners. The one proscribes on account of 
 foreign birth, and the other proscribes on ac 
 count of color, not foreign. Suppose we 
 
340 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, August 6. 
 
 were disposed to carry this principle out at 
 length, and declare that a man, in order to 
 become an elector in the State of Minnesota, 
 should have dark hair, blue eyes and red 
 whiskers ? How many members of this Con- 
 vention would indulge in ideas of that kind ? 
 It would be simply ridiculous. But mark 
 you, all the above qualities are strong marks 
 of the Anglo-saxon race. And yet that 
 ivould be quite as reasonable, as to proscribe 
 on account of color. 
 
 I ask any man what objection there is to 
 striking out the word " white ? " I am an- 
 swered that policy, that outside influences, 
 demand that we should retain that word : 
 that this Constitution which we are framing is 
 to go before the people for their adoption or 
 rejection, and that in order to meet the wishes .. 
 and views of the masses, this word should 
 remain where it is : that if it is stricken out, 
 it would be a sure defeat of the Constitution. 
 But, sir, I have yet to learn that men are to 
 barter principle for policy. It has been done 
 many times to attain certain ends, yet I have 
 no right to trample upon the personal rights 
 of men. 
 
 But I am reminded here of that oft used 
 argument, that a temporising policy is better 
 than defeat. Let me answer that argument 
 in the language of the immortal Clay, " bet- 
 ter be right than to be President." Then let 
 us throw off this disguise of policy, and wash 
 our political garments while in the waters of 
 Jordan, Let us snatch one coal from the smol- 
 dering embers upon the altar of liberty, 
 and apply it here, that we may be enabled to 
 say to our constituents, when we go home, 
 that we present to them a Constitution which 
 has been renovated by fire. 
 
 It has been provided in some of our New 
 England States that a colored man may vote 
 by being the owner of, and paying a tax on, 
 a certain amount of property. While I am 
 opposed to all property qualifications for vo- 
 ting, I cannot but think that such a privilege 
 would be valuable, even ifit were encumbered 
 by such a restriction. By leaving this word 
 in the Constitution, and giving countenance 
 to this distinction, we place a stain upon our 
 State which will not easily be wiped out. It 
 is a policy which will lead to crime, because 
 we could expect nothing better of that race of 
 men than that they should desire to be the 
 
 avengers of the wrong committed upon them 
 in this way. We have been taught to regard • 
 liberty as national and not sectional. Who 
 can wonder then that I should be surprised 
 when I see a disposition manifested here, 
 from outside pressure, to encumber this re- 
 port with the word "white." Do not, by 
 this, believe, that I fear that Minnesota will 
 be a slave State^ and that our free-soil will be 
 contaminated with this national curse. While 
 I am a firm believer in the right of free suf- 
 frage, and free Territory to all, I still desire 
 to look at the interests of every class of peo- 
 ple who settle in our Territory, and to make 
 a Constitution which shall be as clear from 
 every thing which would be objectionable to 
 the people, as we can. When we have done 
 that, we have done all that can be required 
 of us. When we have accomplished that, 
 Minnesota with her broad prairies, her wood 
 land, her waters, and her thrice loved clime, 
 will invigorate the body and enliven the soul 
 of every weary traveler in this our thrice 
 prosperous and happy state. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I offer the following sub- 
 stitute for section one : 
 
 " Sec. 1. Every white male person of the age 
 of twenty-one years and upwards, (excepting por- 
 sons under guardianship, non ccmvpos mentis, 
 or insane) belonging to either of the following 
 classes, who shall have resided in this State for 
 six months, and in the town, ward or precinct, in 
 which he may oflFer to vote, for ten days next pre- 
 ceding any election, shall be deemed a qualified 
 elector at such election, viz : 
 
 "First. — Citizens of the United States. 
 
 "Second. — Every person of foreign birth who 
 shall exhibit a certificate from a proper court of 
 record that he has declared his intentions to be- 
 come a citizen of the United States in conformity 
 to the laws of the United States. 
 
 2%irc?.— Civilized persons of Indian descent, 
 not members of any tribe." 
 
 I am not going to make a speech of any 
 length upon this subject, but in offering the 
 amendment I would say, that while retaining, 
 in pursuance of deliberations heretofore had, 
 the word " white," I am one of those who 
 hold to the principle of the common rights of 
 humanity without regard to birth-place, or 
 to creed, or to complexion. Dr. Franklin, I 
 think it was, alluding to the early times of 
 the country, when one of the qualifications of 
 a voter in a certain part of the country was 
 that ho should* own a mule or a jackass, put 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES—Thtbsdat, Atjgcst 6. 
 
 841 
 
 the question whether, in that case, it was the 
 man that voted, or the jackass? Now it 
 strikes me that in requiring a certain shade 
 of complexion as a quaUfication for voting, 
 we put mankind pretty nearly in the same 
 predicament. Complexion has nothing to do 
 with a man's mental capacity ; nothing to do 
 with his political efficiency ; and nothing to 
 do with his ability to serve the State, either in 
 the councils of the nation, or upon her battle 
 fields. A man may be other than white, and 
 yet not be an African. Instead of belonging 
 to the Caucassian race, which is pure white, 
 he may belong to the Malay race, or the 
 ftidian race, and yet he may be competent to 
 perform all the duties which the law requires 
 of him as a citizen. This prejudice of color 
 appears to me most contemptible and foolish. 
 Because a man may happen to have a certain 
 dark shade of complexion, or because his 
 forefathers may have been in a degraded con- 
 dition, not because of their own act, but 
 because some superior power or brigand force 
 may have been brought to bear upon them ; 
 to say that for any such reasons, he and his 
 descendents shall for all time to come, have 
 no rights which the white man has, is a doc- 
 trine unworthy of high-minded and intelligent 
 beings, and I have no sympathy with it. And 
 while I express myself in this way, anfl would 
 like to see a different state of things, yet in 
 framing this Constitution and submitting it to 
 the people, we have not only this, but other 
 ends to attain, and other objects to accomplish. 
 I am in favor of discussing this question, and 
 of educating the people up to the mark ; but 
 as public men and statesmen we have got to 
 take the people as they are, and for the time 
 being, to do, not all the good that ought to be 
 done, but all we can do. And it is upon that 
 ground, and that only, that I am willing to 
 consent to admit the word "white" in the 
 Constitution, for I do not believe the people are 
 quite up to the lughest mark of principle : the 
 force of prejudice is yet so great among them. 
 I am willing to go as fast as I" can, but because 
 I cannot get all good, I am not willing to 
 say that I will not have any thing which is 
 good. I am in favor of inserting the word 
 " white," purely upon the ground of expedi- 
 ency, and I am not ashamed to say it. It is 
 extremely desirable, in view of the contest in 
 which the nation is engaged, that Minnesota 
 
 should not be delayed from coming into the 
 Union at the earliest possible moment. We 
 all can see that freedom is going to gain prac- 
 tically in the councils of the nation by Minne- 
 sota coming into the Union as soon as possible. 
 A great contest is going on between the 
 antagonistic powers of slavery and freedom, 
 for the plains of the West; and going on, not 
 only for that purpose, but to wrest the 
 national government from its proper purposes, 
 and to establish the principle that the Consti- 
 tution of the United States is a Slave 
 Constitution, and that its adoption was simply 
 and solely to protect the institution of slavery. 
 Such are the doctrines now broached, and a 
 great contest is now waging upon those princi- 
 ples, and it is important that Minnesota 
 should come in, so that her voice and influence 
 may be cast in the scale of freedom. That is 
 the practical effect I wish to accomplish. If 
 we go to Congress with two Senators upon 
 the floor of the Senate, and our members in 
 the House, all upon the side of freedom, we 
 accomplish more for the cause of freedom — 
 freedom for the white and freedom for the 
 black — ^tiian we should by engaging here in a 
 vain contest upon an abstraction, and thereby 
 fiifl in aU these great objects we have in view. 
 As I said before, I am willing to attain the 
 greatest good I can for the time being, and 
 with that desire you will see that I have put 
 into that amendment a provision that civilized 
 persons of Indian descent, not members of 
 any tribe, shall be electors. Some may 
 object to that, on the groimd that it allows 
 persons of a particular class, not white, to 
 vote, while we exclude another class, not 
 white, from the same privilege. I feel dis- 
 posed to recognize the objection to its fullest 
 extent. But in obedience to the principle I 
 have declared, of attaining as much good as 
 possible for the time being, and endeavoring 
 to educate the people to going as far as they 
 ought, I aq^ willing to allow half-breeds to 
 vote. The people, I think, are willing to go 
 that far. Indeed, it would be great injustice 
 to that class of people, after having enjoyed 
 the privilege of voting for so long a time, to 
 refuse them that privilege, now or hereafter, 
 simply because we cannot extend to another 
 race, against whom the people have great 
 prejudices, the same privilege. At the same 
 time that I am for doing whatever is right, 
 
348 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursdat, August 6. 
 
 yet because I cannot get all that is right for 
 one, I am not for doing wrong to another. 
 When, under all the circumstances, the people 
 are willing to admit this class to the privilege 
 of voting, I am not for excluding tliem, 
 because another class is excluded. 
 
 There is another point in which the amend- 
 ment differs from the original. My substitute 
 provides that every person of foreign birth, 
 who has resided in the State six months, who 
 has declared his intention to become a citizen 
 of the United States, conformably to the laws 
 of the United States, and shall exhibit a cer- 
 tificate from a proper court of record that he 
 has so declared his intention, shall have the right 
 to vote. That is the system which has here- 
 tofore prevailed in this Territory, and I think 
 it would be sound policy to adopt it in our 
 Constitution. A clause in regard to the evi- 
 dence by which the fact is proved — that is, 
 the exhibition of the seal of a court of record, 
 should be placed in the Constitution. It is, 
 after all, only going back to the common law 
 axiom, that the best evidence which is extant, 
 shall be produced in every case. In the State 
 of Pennsylvania, I think, without any legisla- 
 tion, it was always held that a person at the 
 polls should produce his certificate of natural- 
 ization, because that was the best evidence 
 the case admitted of. But if you allow, as 
 you have heretofore, foreigners to come up 
 and swear that they have declared their inten- 
 tions, it would be objected to on the part of 
 many. The trouble is this — take St. Paul, 
 for instance : There are, perhaps, many per- 
 sons here — I need not designate the particu- 
 lar class — to whom such an oath is consid- 
 ered of the character of what they call, in 
 smuggling, custom-house oaths ; who consider 
 that a man commits no sin in taking and 
 breaking them. There is no diflficulty in get- 
 ting any number of such men. Sometimes 
 you may find those whose consciences prick 
 them a little, but there are always enough of 
 them to accomplish the object sought by 
 those who desire to have them vote. For 
 that reason, I am in favor of requiring the 
 certificate as evidence of the fiict of declara- 
 tion of intention. 
 
 In another point, my substitute differs from 
 the original which requires a residence of two 
 years in the United States, six months of 
 which shall be in the Territory. The substi- 
 
 tute does not require that. It simply re- 
 quires that they shall have declared their in- 
 tention to become citizens, and prove that by 
 their certificates under seal ; and shall have 
 resided in the State six months, ani in the 
 precinct in which they may offer to vote, ten 
 days. Then they are entitled to vote. Such 
 is the rule in our elections now. If you put 
 in a two year's residence, the remarks I made 
 in regard to oaths, would apply to that, be- 
 cause a man who would falsely swear that he 
 had declared his intentions would find no 
 great difficulty in lumping in an oath that he 
 had resided two years in the United States. 
 While such a provision would operate as no 
 bar to polling votes in the cities, yet in the 
 country, among the foreign population who 
 have a more conscientious regard for their 
 oaths, it would operate as an effectual bar to 
 their voting. The law-abiding men of foreign 
 birth, who reside, for the most part, in the 
 country, are most likely to be Republicans. 
 As a general thing they are, and if they are 
 not now, they will soon be. I think our- pol- 
 icy should be for the largest liberty upon that 
 point. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. While I wish to have it 
 understood that I am willing to act with the 
 majority, as they see fit in determining 
 whether the vvoM " white" shall be inserted 
 in this place in the Constitution, yet I claim 
 the privilege of expressing the reasons why I 
 am opposed to it. I am decidedly in favor of 
 striking the word " white" from this section. 
 The great object of a Constitution should be 
 to protect the weak. It was to secure the 
 people against tyranny and oppression that 
 the first Bill of Rights was ever written, in the 
 early part of the thirteenth century, by the 
 people of Hungary. About seven years later, 
 for the same object, the Magna Charta — that 
 great platform of civil hberty — was extorted 
 from King John by the people of England. 
 
 The great principle involved in the amend- 
 ment is, equal rights to all men. That prin- 
 ciple, sir, is the fundamental principle in the 
 Declaration of Independence. That principle 
 is prominent in the Constitution of the United 
 States. That principle we recognize and en- 
 dorse in our Bill of Rights. That principle 
 we propose to reject in the main part of our 
 Constitution. That principle, sir, is Repub- 
 lican, and is consistent with the genius of our 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thtbsday, August 6. 
 
 343 
 
 government. The opposite is Aristocracy 
 and Monarchy. ^Vhy do we propose to re- 
 ject it ? Not because gentlemen consider it 
 wrong. They tell us it is not policy. Is not 
 right, sir, always popular? It is true that it 
 will not always secure to individuals political 
 aggrandizement, but it will always promote 
 the interest of humanity, and future genera- 
 tions will rise up to bless those who had cour- 
 age to stand up in its defence. 
 
 I believe that the right of suffrage should 
 be extended to every native-bom citizen of 
 the United States who has sufficient intelli- 
 gence to read the Constitution. But if we do 
 not propose to make intelligence the standard, 
 I would have no standard but citizenship. 
 What is the objection to the amendment? 
 The strong argument is, would you introduce 
 the negro into society ? would you introduce 
 negroes into the councils of our nations ? 
 Would you place bim upon the judicial bench ? 
 Would you have him for Governor, or for 
 President ? Mr. Chaibjiax, I have heard this 
 argument used in the State of New York, 
 when the question was before the people 
 there. I heard it in Michigan, when the 
 question was before the people there; and 
 that argimient has found its way to Minneso- 
 ta. We proclaim to the world, that the Uni- 
 ted States is a home for all .that may choose 
 to settle within her borders ; that they shall 
 be governed by her institutions, that they 
 shall help support tliem, and that they shall 
 help to make them, if they are white. But 
 we propose to trample in the dust about one- 
 fourth of our whole population, while we pro- 
 claim equal rights to aU men, and this an asy- 
 lum for the oppressed. 
 
 I was about to say, Mr. Chairman, that 
 this amendment would prevaU, but I dare not 
 hope. Pride, that progenitor of all evil, whis- 
 pers in the public ear, " keep them down." 
 But, sir, we will not despair. In the future, 
 there is hope. Truth is mighty, and will pre- 
 vail. Justice cries, " Raise them up." Hu- 
 manity cries, "Raise them up." The God of 
 Heaven cries, " The captive shall be free." I 
 believe, sir, the time will come when universal 
 suffrage will be extended to all men, on the 
 basis of intelligence, and not of color. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I rise not to make a 
 lengthy speech upon this matter. My views 
 are known to every member here, and I 
 
 wish not now to urge them. I believe those 
 gentleman who advocate this amendment are 
 actuated by good intentions, and I desire no 
 better evidence of their good intentions than 
 their wish, expressed here, to elevate those 
 beneath them. I accord, then, to those gen- 
 tlemen all they can ask as to honesty of pur- 
 pose. But I do ask them when they make 
 their arguments, not to take it for granted 
 that the course they propose is right, and that 
 any other course that other men see fit to 
 pursue, is therefore wrong. I should hope 
 that in the speeches of those gentlemen, they 
 would argue the question, and show that they 
 are right by argument, and not come out with 
 bold assumptions that they are right and 
 every body else wrong. We say that this 
 is a debatable question— a question upon which 
 great and good minds can and do differ. And 
 we say further, that we, as the representatives 
 of the people, claiming to reflect their views 
 upon the subject, have the right to do so 
 here, and that we act in accordance to what 
 we believe to be the views of our constitu- 
 ents. Those gentlemen have the same right, 
 but while they assume that they, and they 
 only, are right, there should some argu- 
 ments be put upon the record to show why 
 they are right. 
 
 Let us see whether their argument does 
 not prove too much. In the first place, they 
 assume that the Declaration of Independence 
 declares entire freedom for all mankind. They 
 also declare that a man's highest state of hap- 
 piness is in his right to vote. They seem to 
 assimae that the chief end of man Is voting — 
 voting. They argue, and put their own stress 
 upon it, that the negro should vote at all haz- 
 ards. Now we say it is not wise or proper, 
 under present circumstances, to let him vote. 
 And further, many of us are honestly of 
 opinion, that it is not in accordance with the 
 genius of our institutions, to assimulate the ne- 
 gro with us, and make him a native resident citi- 
 zen of this country. Many of us believe that 
 his home is among his fellows, and that he is 
 a stranger among us. And so the facts 
 prove. Gentlemen may cry out, in their 
 affection for the poor degraded African, what 
 they please, yet he remains among us without 
 friends. The voice of community in this 
 coimtry says that the poor African is a de- 
 graded being, and hide it as we will, it is so. 
 
344 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thubsday, August 6. 
 
 An African voting ! Let him vote and still 
 he moves amongst us as an outcast. What 
 are his social privileges here ? Will we, or 
 can we, by constitutional provisions, elevate 
 him to a position in society the white man 
 occupies ? Who, in this Convention, with all 
 his philanthropy, will take the negro by the 
 hand, and lead him into his family, be he ever 
 so good and intelligent; introduce him to his 
 daughter, and permit him to marry her? 
 There is a plain question. Who will do it ? 
 The seal of degradation is upon the poor 
 down-trodden African, and years and ages 
 must pass by before that seal can be removed. 
 No man, I hope, would sooner see it removed 
 than myself. But how shall we do it? Gen- 
 tlemen say let him vote, and that will secure 
 the whole thing. But. does not the argument 
 prove too much ? You quote the declaration 
 of Independence, to show that the chief end 
 of man is to vote, and that that is a right 
 which every man should possess. And then 
 you bring up the argument that taxation and 
 representation are inseparable. Why then 
 do you not move to strike out the word 
 "male," and "twenty-one, years," from this 
 Constitution ? And you gentlemen could do 
 it with more propriety than you could strike 
 out the word "white." Women pay taxes 
 in this Territory, and I am satisfied that the 
 great body of the intelligence and the virtue 
 of the country is bound up in the female 
 heart, and that she is better prepared to vote 
 correctly upon all great questions, than a ma- 
 jority of men, white though they be. Let 
 the female Heart express its opinion through 
 the ballot box, and Hottentotism, if you 
 please to call it, flies the lahd. There would 
 be an appeal from the Dred Scott decision, 
 which would go forth and make the four cor- 
 ners of the earth ring, and it would be 
 answered from Heaven, and the appeal would 
 be sustained. Let the female voice be heard, 
 and that decision, which would have come 
 well from a Hottentot court, would be re- 
 versed by the voice of the land. Consistency 
 then would require you to do that, and yet 
 who here wishes to strike oiit the word 
 male? We say that females have other voca- I 
 lions ;'' that it is their business to remain at \ 
 home, and that it is ours to meddle in politi- ' 
 cal matters. Their sphere lies in a different j 
 direction. They are our mothers, and the t 
 
 mothers of our children, and we would not 
 remove them from their present sphere. But 
 what becomes under these circumstances, of 
 the argument that all men are created free 
 and equal, and that the chief end of man is 
 voting? What becomes of the argument 
 that taxation and representation are insepa- 
 rable, unless we give woman the privilege of 
 voting ? 
 
 We must, in all the circumstances of life, 
 do what we can do, and not what we wish to 
 do. Human nature is imperfect. We have 
 a great beau ideal of perfection held out to go 
 by, and we may approximate to it, and come 
 as close to it as we can. But we must do 
 one thing at a time and do it well. It will 
 not do to sacrifice all the best interests of our 
 country, because we cannot do every thing 
 at once. We must exercise a wise policy; 
 and a wise policy is to let women remain 
 where they are, to educate them, to make 
 them wise and virtuous beings to preside over 
 the household goods of the land. Nature 
 has marked out her position, and it is not in 
 the power of human legislation or of this 
 Convention to alter the fiat of nature. 
 
 But be that as it will, nature has placed 
 upon the African a mark, which it is useless 
 for legislatures or this Convention to try to 
 remove. Let thp negroe be elevated ; let him 
 be educated ; let him be entitled to all the pro- 
 tection of our laws ; and if our friend can 
 raise him up to a lofty position, be it as high 
 as the name of Washington, no one will re- 
 joice more than your humble speaker. But 
 the first thing is not to make him a voter. 
 The first thing is to destroy this social inetjual- 
 ity. How ? By making him a voter ? You, 
 gentlemen, who know so much about the con- 
 taminations around the ballot box, ought to 
 know that it is not the way to elevate a man 
 to bring him up to the ballot box on the day 
 of election. 
 
 While gentlemen would accuse some of us 
 of voting upon this subject as a matter of 
 policy, I tell them I vote upon it conscien- 
 tiously, as a matter of right and policy, just 
 as I would upon striking out the word " male." 
 I would vote against that as a matter of right 
 and policy, because I think what is not poli- 
 tic and wise can never be right. Wisdom is 
 always right; and sound policy is always 
 right ; and to talk here of sacrificing policy 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thubsday, August 6. 
 
 345 
 
 to principle, what is it ! Sound policy is al- 
 ways composed of good principles, wise prin- 
 ciples. Policy is wisdom reduced to system. 
 "Why then charge home on us because we say 
 it is both politic and right to retain this word ; 
 that we are all wrong and you all right? 
 We accord to you good intentions in advo- 
 cating your views, and I hope to Heaven, the 
 day may come when the African will rise up 
 to the position of a man ; when he may be- 
 come noble and respected, and when the 
 clanking of the chain of the same, and the 
 accursed foot of the bondman may no more 
 curse the soil of America. That day I hope 
 not to see myself, but when we are dead, and 
 right and truth will prevail, the God of battles 
 and of peace will in his own good time, work 
 the way and means of removing this stain 
 from the fair escutcheon of om* American 
 States. Grod speed the day when that may 
 come about, and to that end let us direct our 
 energies. The RepubUcan party is a unit on 
 this one thing, and to slavery we say, " thus 
 " far hast thou gone, but no farther." 
 
 That is the groimd I stand upon. Nail our 
 flag to the mast there, and slavery has a 
 woimd inflicted in it, which will cause its 
 death as sure as the revolution of the earth. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to amend the 
 second division of the substitute, by inserting 
 after the word " birth" the words " who has 
 resided in the United States two years." 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I do not exactly see 
 the propriety of ofiering that amendment, as 
 the question now stands before us. That 
 question is involved in a vote upon the sub- 
 stitute for the section as reported by the com- 
 mittee. The gentleman's amendment would 
 simply put in the same language that is in the 
 original section. That, I take it, is the main 
 difference between the amendment of the 
 gentleman from Dakota and the original sec- 
 tion. The other difierences are merely dif- 
 ferences of phraseology and not of substance. 
 I am in favor of the substitute, in place of the 
 original section ; first for the reason of the 
 change which is proposed to be made by it; 
 and for the further reason that it expresses 
 th« meaning intended to be conveyed, in a 
 more concise form than the original section. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I am in favor of the sub- 
 stitute, because I think it expresses our wish- 
 es in a more direct and simple manner than 
 44 
 
 the original section, and also because there is 
 another requisition in the substitute, which I 
 think is important ; and that is that persons 
 of foreign birth, upon oSering to vote shall 
 exhibit some evidence of their having made 
 their declaration of intention to become citi- 
 zens of the United States. But I do think 
 there should be required a residence of not 
 less than two years in the country. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I do not care myself 
 whether this substitute, as proposed to be 
 amended, be passed, or the original section, 
 with this exception, that I do not like that 
 part of it which applies to Indians and those 
 of mixed Indian blood. Whether it be fm 
 honor or a dishonor to be a foreigner, I claim 
 no honor from it, and acknowledge no inferi- 
 ority on account of it. There are a number 
 of others in this Hall "in the sam* position, 
 and I, as one of that number, say I never 
 wiU submit to anything wrong, nor will I ask 
 for anything wrong — and to ask for foreigners 
 the right of equal suffrage with American 
 citizens, is wrong, and more than the foreign 
 population ask for. I say this in their name, 
 and I know this to be the fact. It is going be- 
 yond all precedent ; it is bidding for a vote 
 which, I wish to say, cannot generally be 
 bought ; and it is offering to the foreign pop- 
 ulation what they knew they should not 
 have. 
 
 There is another difference between the 
 substitute, and the original section, and on 
 account of which I shall favor the original 
 section. The original section gives to every 
 person who is a resident of this Territory, at 
 the time of the adoption of this Constitution, 
 and who shall have been a resident of the 
 United States six months, and who, if of for- 
 eign birth, has declared his intention to be- 
 come a citizen, the right to vote. That I am 
 in favor of We are making those now resi- 
 ding in the Territory a general exception to 
 the qualifications required both for oflBcers and 
 for voters. The emigration into this TeiTito- 
 ry has been sudden. Many foreigners have 
 settled throughout our Territory, have borne 
 the heat and the burden of the day, and have 
 assisted to make Minnesota what she is, and 
 I am in favor of extending the privilege of 
 voting, to every foreigner who has resided in 
 the Territory six months previous to the 
 adoption of this Constitution, But I am ojp- 
 
S46 
 
 [MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thubsd at, August 6. 
 
 posed to extending the right of suffrage to 
 those who come in subsequently, short of a 
 residence of two years. I am opposed to the 
 substitute, though, if it should be adopted, I 
 hope it will be amended as proposed by the 
 gentleman from Hennepin county (Mr Mor- 
 gan). But I prefer the original article just as 
 it is. I do not want members of this Conven- 
 tion to extend any favors to foreigners which 
 they do not think they justly merit. I think 
 the intelligent, thinking foreign population of 
 the United States will consider it rather as 
 an insult than a favor. They know they are 
 not well enough acquainted with our institu- 
 tions to vote intelligently when they have 
 been in the United States six months, or to 
 hold office until they have been here a longer 
 period. Why should* we make such a pro- 
 vision ? Are we not exalting foreigners over 
 American citizens when we say they may 
 vote after a six months residence ? We do 
 not let American citizens hold offices until 
 they have been here two years. Why V Be- 
 cause we want to become acquainted with 
 them and know what they are. Be not incon- 
 sistent. Do not hold out to foreigners any 
 such bid, thinking they can be caught in any 
 such trap. I am opposed to it. Let us vote 
 the amendment down. But I do say that I 
 hope every foreigner who has come here and 
 helped to make Minnesota what she is, and 
 has been in this Territory six months previ- 
 ous to the adoption of this Constitution, shall 
 be permitted to vote. He is one of us. Our 
 foreign population have done their full share 
 in developing our Territory, and let us do full 
 justice to them, but let us do no more. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. In looking over the 
 Constitutions of the various States, I find 
 in the Wisconsin Constitution almost the iden- 
 tical language of the amendment offered by 
 the gentleman from Dakota (Mr. Foster), as 
 a substitute for the original section. The 
 Wisconsin provision is as follows : 
 
 " Every male person of the age of twenty-ono 
 years or upwards, belonging to either the follow- 
 ing classes, who shall have resided in the State 
 for one year, next preceding any election, shall 
 be deemed a qualified elector at such election : 
 
 "First— White citizens of the United States. 
 
 " Second— White persons of foreign birth who 
 shall have declared their intention to become citi- 
 zens conformably to the laws of the United States 
 on the subject of naturalization : 
 
 "Third-Persons of Indian blood, who have once 
 been declared by law of Congress to be citizens 
 of the United States, any subsequent law of Con- 
 gress to the contrary uotwithstanding : 
 
 " Fourth — Civilized persons of Indian descent, 
 not members of any tribe. 
 
 ^'Provided, That the Legislature may at any 
 time extend by law the right of suffrage to per- 
 sons not herein enumerated ; but no such law 
 shall be in force until the same shall have been 
 submitted to a vote of the people at a general 
 election and approved by a majority of all the 
 votes cast at such election." 
 
 The third clause which I have read is left 
 out of the gentleman's amendment. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. That was designed to meet 
 a peculiar local matter in Wisconsin. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. The persons mentioned 
 in the fourth clause — civilized persons of 
 Indian descent — should, in my opinion, have 
 the right to vote. There are many of them, 
 in the Territory, and quite a nmnber of them 
 living in my own district, who are property 
 holders, who are able to read and write, and 
 are capable, perhaps, of understanding all 
 questions over which the two parties are at 
 variance, full as well as a large number of 
 American citizens. I am very much inclined 
 — though I do not intend to make a long argu- 
 ment upon the question — to give them the 
 privilege of voting. 
 
 Again, I am inclined to give persons of 
 foreign birth the right to vote if they have 
 been in the Territory six months, and are 
 over the age of twenty-one years, and have 
 declared their intention to become citizens. 
 There is a large class of foreign persons, 
 Scotch, English, Irish, Germans, and others 
 who, after having been m this Territory six 
 months, are quite as well qualified to vote as 
 a large number of our own citizens of Ameri- 
 can birth. 
 
 Now if you are going to establish a 
 rule, why not establish a universal rule 
 which will apply to all cases? If you 
 are going to lay down the principle that 
 a man must have a certain amount of knowl- 
 edge relative to the questions before the peo- 
 ple, before he is qualified to vote, why not 
 make it applicable to American citizens as 
 well as to foreign born citizens? Why not 
 say to American citizens — for we have many 
 of them who can neither read or WTitc, and 
 who know nothing more about the political 
 I institutions of the country than foreignerg 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Ththsdat, August 6. 
 
 347 
 
 just come across the waters — that they shall 
 not have the privilege of voting unless they 
 have such qualifications ? I am disposed to 
 give foreigners who have been within the Ter- 
 ritory sis months the right to vote. I see 
 nothing to be lost by it, and nothing to be 
 gained by refusing them the privilege. They 
 are property holders, and pay taxes; and why 
 should they not have the privilege of voting ? 
 
 I am in favor of the substitute again, for 
 the reason that I prefer the phraseology. I 
 think that the same subject matter is expresed 
 in a shorter and more explicit manner than 
 in the section reported by the committee. 
 
 Mr. MURPHY. I hope the substitute will 
 not be adopted without the amendment. I 
 come here representing a great many foreign- 
 ers — being about half foreigner myself — and 
 it is singular to me that the gentleman from 
 Winona should state that the foreigner who 
 has lived here but six months is just as well 
 qualified to vote, as a native bom American 
 citizen. My father lived in America five years 
 before he was allowed to vote, and then he 
 had to show his full papers of naturalization. 
 Now, it seems to me, that we are getting along 
 pretty fast. A year or two ago foreigners 
 had to be in the Territory two years before 
 they could vote ; and now we desire to put it 
 into the Constitution that they shall have the 
 right to vote after a six month's residence. 
 That would not suit the foreigner himself. 
 You might as well say that a boy sixteen 
 years old is as well qualified to vote as he is 
 at twenty-one. A boy of that age is as well 
 qualified as a foreigner, and a good deal bet- 
 ter, because he has lived here sixteen years ; 
 and when he is ten years of age he learns 
 more in a year of our institutions, than a for- 
 eigner will in five. I hope the amendment 
 of the gentleman from Minneapolis (Mr. Mob- 
 gan) will be adopted, or that we shall let the 
 section remain as it is. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. One remark further in 
 reply to my colleague (Mr. Balcombe) who 
 spoke after me. He says this amendment is 
 nearly word for word like the Wisconsin pro- 
 vision. Well it is nearly in every respect ex- 
 cept one, and in that one respect there is a 
 difference ; that difference amounts to the 
 whole thing. The time of residence in Wis- 
 consin is just double — one year. And that 
 is the best and almost the only example he 
 
 can quote. I have taken some pains to look 
 at the different Constitutions. Indiana makes 
 one years residence necessary. The Consti- 
 tution of Illinois makes citizens of foreigners 
 who resided in the State at the time of the adop- 
 tion of the Constitution. The Constitution of 
 Michigan has a provision not as favorable to for- 
 eigners as we propose ; and California a great 
 deal worse than ours. We as a Territory, 
 stand better in that respect, than any Dem- 
 ocratic State that ever came into the Union. 
 We are taking the lead in this matter. 
 
 And as to these Irish votes I claim to know 
 something about them, and I know that the 
 foreigners do not wish the right of suffrage 
 extended to them as soon as is proposed in 
 the amendment. I say to the gentleman from 
 Hennepin (Mr. MrRPHv) that many of our 
 foreigners, as soon as they arrive in the United 
 States are as well qualified to vote as the 
 citizens of the United States, because many 
 of them are highly educated and highly in- 
 telligent men. But that does not change the 
 reason for the general rule. 
 
 As to these half-breeds, I would extend to 
 all of them the right of suffrage, but I am op- 
 posed to the grand frauds which have been 
 perpetrated under color of that right. And 
 therefore to adopt this amendment as it is, 
 would subject us to those frauds again. This 
 putting a coat upon one Indian, and when he 
 has voted, stripping it off and putting it on 
 another, and thus running them up to the 
 polls by hundreds, I protest against, and we 
 should have same provision to protect us 
 against it. I know some half-breeds I would 
 vote for as soon as for any man I know. 
 They are high-minded men ; but I would 
 throw a guard around the right so that it can- 
 not be abused. ■ 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. As a foreigner I wish 
 to say that I fully endorse the ground taken 
 by the gentleman firom Winona (Mr. Wilsox). 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I hope the substitute will 
 not be adopted unless the amendment is at- 
 tached to it. I think this matter of residence 
 should be looked to particularly. I am in 
 favor of allowing foreigners every right and 
 privilege they can consistently claim, or that 
 would be safe for us to give. Although I am 
 willing to acknowledge the truth of what the 
 gentleman from Winona (Mr. Wilsox) has 
 said — that many foreigners come here'as well 
 
348 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thuesday, August 6. 
 
 qualified to vote when they first came into 
 the country as many of our own citizens, I 
 do not acknowledge that that is the general 
 rule ; and I think no one will attempt to 
 maintain it as the general rule. As a gene- 
 ral rule foreigners who come into our country, 
 are not acquainted with the principles of our 
 government, nor with the practical workings 
 and operation of them. Many of them are 
 men of intelligence and education, but their 
 attention has never been called directly to the 
 principles of our government so as to enable 
 them to understand it; and certainly their 
 attention has not been called to the practical 
 working of those principles in their minutia. 
 The great dificulty with foreigners when they 
 come here, is, that they find two or three po- 
 litical parties, each one claiming to be the 
 true representative of the principles of our 
 government, and each one claiming to be the 
 friend of that system which works best in 
 practice. Before he can vote intelligently he 
 has to investigate the theories of these various 
 parties. Very few foreigners have the oppor- 
 tunity to do that before they come to this 
 country. They may have heard of the par- 
 ties, but they have not become familiar with 
 their principles nor with the practical work- 
 ing of their theories. 
 
 Now I believe that two years is a short 
 time enough for the mass of foreigners to be- 
 come familiar with all these things ; and, as 
 the gentleman from Winona has said, the 
 honest and intelligent portion of them do not 
 ask the right to vote in a shorter space of 
 time than that. If you allow them to vote in 
 six months, and before they become familiar 
 with all these facts, they are beset on every 
 hand by politicians, who perplex their minds 
 and confuse their ideas, and they know not 
 how to act. Require of them a residence of 
 two years, and they have time to make up 
 their minds without being beset by politicians 
 who crowd their peculiar views upon them. 
 I certainly hope the amendment to the sub- 
 stitute will bo adopted. 
 
 Mr. COGGS\vi:LL. I have a substitute 
 which I wish to offer for the whole report. 
 
 Mr, BALCOMBE. I rise to a point of 
 order. The committee having under consid- 
 eration the first section, a substitute was 
 ofi*ered for it, and then an amendment to the 
 substitute. Now I raise the point that a 
 
 substitute for the whole report cannot b 
 offered until the amendment is disposed of. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair thinks the 
 question of order well taken. 
 
 The amendment to the substitute was then 
 agreed to. 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. I move to strike out the 
 last clause of the substitute, referring to civi- 
 lized persons of Indian descent, and insert 
 the following : 
 
 " All persons of mixed Indian blood, or full 
 blood Indians, who shall have declared their inten- 
 tions to become dissevered from all Indian tribes, 
 and to become a citizen of the United States, who 
 can read, write and speak the English language, 
 and shall have resided within this State five years, 
 such residence dating from the time of filing their 
 intentions to become a citizen, and such facts being 
 prf>ved, the supreme court shall grant a certificate 
 of citizenship ; and the supreme court shall be the 
 only court competent to grant such certificate, or 
 to judge of the qualifications of persons applying 
 for citizenship. The first Legislature at their first 
 session after the census of eighteen hundred and 
 sixty, shall establish by law the qualification of 
 voters, the basis of which shall be education ; and 
 no other qualification shall be required except such 
 as is required by the laws of the United States, or 
 this Constitution." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE caUed for a division of the 
 motion to strike out and insert. 
 
 The question was taken on the motion to 
 strike out, and the Chair announced that it 
 was decided in the affirmative, by a vote of 
 fourteen to thirteen ; when the objection was 
 made that no quorum voted. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the motion will 
 not prevail. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I rise to a question of 
 order. The vote has been declared, and is 
 there any way of getting at that question 
 again, except by a motion t<> reconsider? 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. ^The Chair did not 
 decide it positively. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. The qucsUon is raised 
 whether there is a quorum present, I move 
 that the committee rise. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I voted with the majority, 
 and I move to reconsider the vote by which 
 the committee agreed to strike out the third 
 subdivision of the substitute. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. The gentleman voted against 
 striking out. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The gentleman is mis- 
 taken. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thtjksday, August 6. 
 
 349 
 
 Mr. HARDING. There is another diffi- 
 culty. There are some here who contend that 
 as a majority of a quorum did not vote in 
 fevor of striking out, the motion was lost. 
 In that view I hardly know how we shall get 
 at the question again. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I rise to a pomt of order. 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. The gentleman's point 
 of order is out of order, because — 
 
 Mr. WILSON. The gentleman forgets 
 himself. He thinks he is in the chair now, 
 when in fact somebody else is. I believe 
 Jefferson's Manual is our guide where the 
 rules do not apply. That Manual says a 
 committee of the Whole cannot reconsider 
 its own vote, and if we cannot, the sooner we 
 stop this matter the better. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair thinks the 
 gentleman is out of order, as the committee 
 was dividing on the question when he ad- 
 dressed the Chair as to his point of order. 
 
 The question was then taken on the motion 
 to reconsider, and it was crrried. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Would it be in order to 
 raise the point of order now, that the recon- 
 sideration is out of order, and therefore 
 amounts to nothing ? 
 
 Mr. NORTH. It would seem that the 
 gentleman is too late with his point of order. 
 It should have been raised before the thing 
 was done to which he objects. It is out of 
 order to raise a point of order upon a thing 
 past. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair thinks it is 
 out of order. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move that the com- 
 mittee rise. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and thereupon 
 the committee rose and reported progress and 
 asked leave to sit again. 
 Leave was granted. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. Rule] seven of this 
 Convention provides that no member shall 
 speak more than twice on the same question, 
 nor more than fifteen minutes at any one time 
 without leave of this Convention, nor more 
 than ohce imtil every member who chooses to 
 speak shall have spoken. Now I wish to 
 have this report considered in Convention, 
 and not in committee hereafter, and I there- 
 fore move that rule number seven be suspen- 
 ded, so fiir as the consideration of this report 
 is concerned. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would enquire of the 
 Chair what order of business we are under ? 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The last order— the 
 general orders of the day. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Is the gentleman' s motion 
 in order. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. After the committee 
 of the Whole have had a bill under considera- 
 tion, and reported back to the Convention, it 
 is then in order for the Convention to consider 
 that bin, and amend or debate it. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would enquire if it is 
 in order to move to go into committee upon the 
 same bill agam. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. It would be, but it 
 would not take precedence of the other 
 motion. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. The object of my mo- 
 tion is that members may be allowed the 
 same latitude of debate in Convention on 
 this report, that they would have in committee 
 of the Whole. And by being in Conventipn 
 we can compel every member to vote upon 
 the amendments, and thereby avoid the diffi- 
 culty we met with a short time since. 
 
 The question was taken, and the motion 
 was agreed to. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. DAVIS, (at 
 twelve o'clock) the Convention took a recess 
 until half-past two. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention was called to order at half- 
 past two o'clock. 
 
 BIGHT OF SUFFRAQS. 
 
 The PRESIDENT stated that when the 
 Convention took a recess, it had under con- 
 sideration . the report of the committee upon 
 the Elective Franchise, which had been re- 
 ported back fi"om the committee of the 
 Whole without amendment, and that amend-, 
 ments thereto were in order. 
 
 Mr. NORTH moved to amend the same by 
 striking out the word " white " firom the first 
 line, which reads as follows : " Every 'white' 
 "male inhabitant of the age of twenty-one 
 " years and upwards ," &c. 
 
 Mr. NORTH said — I desire, Mr. Pbesident 
 to make a few remarks upon the amendment 
 vl have ofi'ered before the question is taken 
 upon it. When the committee on the Elec- 
 tive Franchise made their report, as a mem- 
 ber of the committee I concurred in the report, 
 
850 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, August 6. 
 
 except that I was opposed to inserting the 
 word " white ; " and I then stated that when 
 the report should come up for consideration I 
 would give my views upon it. This I now 
 propose to do, though I am conscious, from 
 my limited preparation, that I must do it 
 very imperfectly. My first reason, and one 
 which, to the mind, of every honest and up- 
 right man, I think must be the strongest, is, 
 that it is wrong to insert that word here. I 
 look upon it as an absolute -wrong, which we, 
 as a Convention, have no right to inflict upon 
 any class of our fellow men. For myself, I 
 know of no principle on which our own rights 
 are based that does not guarantee to every 
 other class of human beings the same rights 
 which we claim for ourselves. If there are 
 exceptions to this rule — particular circum- 
 stances must make those exceptions — those 
 exceptions cannot and do not exist in the 
 nature of things as established by the Crea- 
 tor. The contour of the countenance, the 
 complexion of the face which the Creator has 
 stamped on human beings, does not give one 
 class the right to inflict wrong and injury upon 
 another. It does not give us the right to say 
 that we have rights which are natural and 
 inalienable, and to another class, " you are 
 deprived of those rights." The claims of 
 equal and impartial justice are the highest 
 claims that one class of men can make to an- 
 other, and they are claims which should be 
 regarded in a legislative body, a Constitu- 
 tional Convention, or any assemblage of men 
 where laws are to be established. The prin- 
 ciples of natural justice should be first and 
 above all regarded. I believe it is a principle 
 upon which all writers on elementary law 
 agree ; that any enactment by a legislative 
 body that contravenes natural justice, does 
 not rise to the dignity of law ; that it is not 
 law, but an abuse of the prerogative of the 
 law maker. If then natural justice is to be 
 regarded in that high sense, can we avoid the 
 consideration of this principle when we come 
 to make a Constitution, which is more perma- 
 nent than any other kind of law ? 
 
 I know there are those who would cast 
 aside all principles of higher law, that should 
 govern men in making legal enactments, but 
 I believe, here, again, all writers agree that 
 human law is based upon divine law, and 
 that any human law that contravenes divine 
 
 law and absolutely requires a violation of it, 
 is not binding upon the conscience of man. 
 All law writers agree that there is a standard 
 of right eternally fixed, by which all law and 
 law makers are to be tested. If it is not so, 
 how could we determine whether a law is a 
 good or a bad one ? how determine whether 
 this or that Constitution is a good or a bad 
 one ? Washmgton in his address to his coun- 
 trymen, at the close of his Presidential career, 
 endeavored to impress upon their minds the 
 intimate connection which exists between 
 duty and advantage. It is an idea which I 
 have thought we lose sight of frequently in 
 attempting] to establish constitutional provis- 
 ions or legal enactments. The intimate and 
 inseparable connection, the indissoluble tie 
 that binds duty and advantage together, also 
 connects evil with the violation of duty, and 
 we cannot, with impunity, violate the laws of 
 the Creator, which are as eternal as his na- 
 ture, without in some manner suffering the 
 penalty of their violation. We know per- 
 fectly well that if we violate a physical law, 
 we suffer the penalty of physical injury ; if 
 we violate a mentjil law of our being, our 
 mental faculties suffer the penalty ; if we vio- 
 late a moral law, our moral being suffers. 
 These laws are fixed and immutable, and 
 Chancellor Kent says " the same moral prin- 
 " ciple that governs individuals goverjis States 
 " and nations, and they are to be governed by 
 " the same standard of right, nothing more 
 " nor less." Then I say, that when we come 
 to the question of law making, there is a 
 standard of right which we cannot with im- 
 punity disregard, and as I before stated, 
 there is no principle on which we can base 
 our [rights, that does not give the same right 
 to our neighbor. 
 
 It is a fact which some of us may have 
 overlooked, that in the bills of rights which 
 existed before the revolution, emanating 
 from EngUshmen, whether in England or 
 in the colonies, they confined themselves to 
 the specification of rights properly belong- 
 ing to Englishmen. But when the philoso- 
 phers of the revolution were called upon to 
 base themselves upon principles which 
 would justify their action, they made a plat- 
 form, as broad as the whole human family. 
 They did not confine themselves to English- 
 men, to Frenchmen, to Germans, or to Amer- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thubsday, August «. 
 
 S51 
 
 icans, but they took the position that "all 1 
 " men are created equal, and are endowed by 
 " their Creator with certain inalienable rights." 
 Now upon this principle, I say we should 
 harmonize our laws and Constitution. This 
 is the platform upon which we stand, and if 
 we depart from it, there is no principle we 
 can depend upon for a moment, by which to 
 vindicate our own rights should any attempt 
 to take them from us by the hand of power, 
 as we, by inserting the word " white," in this 
 Constitution, would take from a large portion 
 of our fellow citizens the rights we claim for 
 ourselves. 
 
 No person will undertake to claim that the 
 mere temporary condition of men, is a safe 
 criterion by which to judge of their rights. 
 Our ancestors, if we trace them back to Eng- 
 land, will exhibit a most miserable condition, 
 in theu- early history. A large portion of the 
 ancient Britons were held in servitude and 
 vassalage, and were far more degraded than a 
 large share of the colored population of our 
 country to-day. A degradation which would 
 stamp them in the minds of the present gen- 
 eration as altogether imfit to be associated 
 with the people of the present day. I say 
 then that the temporary condition of a people 
 is an uncertain and unsafe standard by which 
 to judge, of what is right. We are taught in 
 scripture that God created all men of one 
 blood, and the Golden rule has taught us that 
 we should do unto others as we would that 
 others should do unto us. 
 
 And it is no more plainly taught in scrip- 
 tiu*e, than it is by our own standard law in 
 this country — the platform which our fathers 
 laid down for us, that all men are created 
 equal. That noble sentiment in the Declara- 
 tion of Independence, was at a subsequent 
 time embodied in the Constitutions of all the 
 thirteen original States, and that fact shows 
 that they regarded this principle as something 
 more than a mere rhetorical flourish — some- 
 thing more than a general expression of an 
 abstract truth, — as a practical truth which 
 was not only to be made practical in the 
 freedom of the individual, but practical by al- 
 lowing liim to have that voice in the govern- 
 ment of the country, which protects him in 
 that right and in the enjoyment of his firee- 
 dom. 
 
 Experience too, teaches this lesson as plain- 
 
 ly as it is taught in scripture, and in our stan- 
 dard law. Turn our eyes upon any country 
 upon the face of the earth, which violates this 
 principle, and we find that it is suffering from 
 that violation. Do we look at the despotisms 
 of the East ? We find that they are suffer- 
 ing to-day, as they have suffered for centu- 
 ries, from a violation of every principle of 
 natxiral right and justice. Look at our own 
 covmtry even, and compare those States of 
 the Union, where men have been deprived of 
 all their rights, with those States where men 
 have been guaranteed all their rights. Draw 
 a contrast between the New England States, 
 and the States of the Soutli where men are 
 robbed of their rights to the greatest extreme, 
 and how does that contrast appear? The 
 one, in all the characteristics of good society 
 have risen to eminence and have become the 
 admiration of the civilized world, while the 
 others are despised and scorned by the nations 
 of the earth, and even by their own citizens. 
 It seems to me that this lesson is taught so 
 plainly everywhere that it should not escape 
 ovu" observation, when we come to construct 
 political institutions. 
 
 I am also opposed to the insertion of the 
 word "white" for the reason that it is incon- 
 sistent with the genius of our institutions. 
 And here I shall have to refer to the Declara- 
 tion of Independence, which some gentlemen 
 seem to think does not mean anything as con- 
 nected with the right of suffrage. It asserts 
 the broad principle of equality of rights — of 
 the black man's rights as truly and as clearly 
 as the white man's rights. If it is claimed by 
 white men that the Declaration means them 
 alone, judging from the language of that in- 
 strimient, it could be claimed with equal fair- 
 ness by black men that it meant them alone, 
 for the language of the instrmnent is as broad 
 to cover the one as the other. 
 
 I am not one of those who believe that an 
 instrument is to be interpreted in any other 
 way than by the plain common sense mean- 
 ing of its language. The people of that time, 
 I believe, knew enough to enunciate princi- 
 ples in plain language, capable of being im- 
 derstood by their countrymen then and now 
 
 In the Constitution of the United States, 
 which was adopted soon after the the Declar- 
 ation of Independence, we see the same prin- 
 ciple carried out. There is not a word or syl- 
 
352 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thuesdat, August 7. 
 
 able in that instrument discriminating be- 
 tween diflferent classes of men on account of 
 their complexion. That was carefully kept 
 out. There is not a word to intimate diflfer- 
 ent conditions of men. The words " slave,'' 
 " slavery," " servitude," and the word 
 " white " are all excluded from that noble in- 
 strument, issuing from that noble body of men 
 whom the North will ever have occasion to 
 honor and revere for the stand they took at 
 that time in laying the foundation of our polit 
 ical institutions. 
 
 It is remarkable not only that the Consti- 
 tution of the United States carefully avoided 
 making any distinction on account of color, 
 but the Constitution of every one of the origina* 
 thirteen States were clear of any such distinc- 
 tion, even including the State of South Carolina. 
 In 1776, even she had a Constitution which 
 had not the word "white," but in 1778, they 
 inserted that word. In my hand I hold a book 
 of Constitutions, published in 1797. In the 
 biUs of rights and the elective franchise clauses 
 of these Constitutions, I find embodied the 
 principles of the men of those times, and they 
 show that they regarded that Declaration of 
 Independence as sometliing more than a mere 
 abstraction, and that they deemed it right to 
 give to colored men, with white men, the right 
 to vote as well as the right to be free, and 
 that they regarded the one as inseparable from 
 the other. 
 
 In the Constitution of New Hampshire, I 
 find the following language : 
 
 "All men are born equally free and indepen- 
 dent ; therefore all government of right originates 
 from the people, is founded in consent and institu- 
 ted for the general good. 
 
 " All men have certain natural, essential and in- 
 herent rights, among which are the enjoying and 
 defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing 
 and protecting property, and in a word of seeking 
 »nd obtaining happiness." 
 
 And in the elective franchise clause I find 
 the following : 
 
 " Every male inhabitant of each town, and par- 
 ish with town privileges, and places unincorpora- 
 ted in this State, of twenty-one years of age and 
 upwards, excepting paupers and persons excluded 
 from paying taxes at their own request, shall have 
 a right at the annual or other meetings of the in- 
 habitants of said town and parishes, to be duly 
 named and holden annually forever in the month 
 oT March, to vote in the town or parish wherein 
 he dwells, for a Senator ifi the district whereof he 
 s a member." 
 
 And the same qualifications are further ex- 
 ended to election of all ofiicers. 
 
 I find in the Constitution of Massachusetts, 
 a bill of rights more complete than that of 
 any other State — a bill of rights drafted by 
 John Adams, who, perhaps, bore as impor- 
 tant a part in the revolution as any other man 
 in the Union. It commences, 
 
 " All men are born free and equal, and have cer- 
 tain natural, essential and unalienable rights; 
 among which may be recorded the right of enjoy- 
 ing and defending their lives and liberties ; that of 
 acquiring, possessing and defending property ; in 
 fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and 
 happiness." 
 
 In the Elective Franchise clause the princi- 
 ple is carried out strictly. They did not put 
 the word " white" in the Elective Franchise 
 clause and leave it out of the Bill of Rights, 
 as it is proposed to do here. I read from 
 that clause : 
 
 " At such meeting every male inhabitant, having 
 a freehold estate within the commonwealth, of the 
 annual income of three pounds, or any estate of 
 the value of fifty pounds, shall have a right to give 
 in his vote for the Senators of the district of which 
 he is an inhabitant. And to remove all doubt con- 
 cerning the word 'inhabitant,' in this Constitu- 
 tion, every person shall be considered as an inhab- 
 itant (for the purpose of electing and being elected 
 into any office or place within the State,) in that 
 town, district or plantation where he dwelieth or 
 hath his home." 
 
 A number of States at that time had a 
 clause requiring the possession of some pro- 
 perty in order to qualify a man for voting, but 
 no clause making any distinction on account 
 of color. 
 
 In the Constitution of New York, adopted 
 in 1777, the following provision is found in the 
 elective franchise clause : 
 
 "That every male inhabitant of full age who 
 shall have personally resided in one of the coun- 
 ties of this State for six months immediately pre- 
 ceding the day of election, shall, at such election, 
 be entitled to vote for representatives of the said 
 county in assembly ; if, during the time aforesaid, 
 he shall have been a freeholder, possessing a free- 
 hold of the value of twenty pounds within the said 
 county, or have rented a tenement therein of the 
 yearly value of forty shillings, and have rated and 
 actually paid taxes to this State." 
 
 '■^ Every male inlutbitanV — language as 
 broad as it could be. I find the same in 
 Pennsylvania ; and when I come tP the little 
 State of Delaware, I find a noble sentiment, 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thubsdat, August 6. 
 
 353 
 
 more fully expressed than in any other Con- 
 stitution I have seen, viz : 
 
 " That the right in the people to participate in 
 the Legislature is the foundation of liberty and of 
 all free governments ; and for this end all elections 
 ought to h&frei. ^aifrequent ; and every free man, 
 having sufficient evidence of a permanent common 
 interest with and attachment to the commonify, 
 hath a right of suffrage." 
 
 I should rejoice if there were virtue enough 
 in the Territory of Minnesota to incorporate 
 such a provision as that into our Constitution. 
 The sentiment is a noble and a true one, say- 
 ing what every man knows and recognizes to 
 be true, so far as it relates to himself — and it 
 is true alike of others — that the right in the 
 people to participate in the Legislature, to 
 have a voice in making the laws by which 
 they are governed, is the foimdationof liberty 
 and of all free governments, and that for that 
 end all elections oug^t to be '■'■free andfre- 
 quent." 
 
 I find the same general provision in Vir- 
 ginia, Maryland, North Carolina, South Caro- 
 lina and Georgia, but I will not take up the 
 time of the Convention by reading them. 
 All the Constitutions in this volume are free 
 from any distinction on account of color, ex- 
 cept that of South Carolina. And even their 
 first Constitution was right in this particular. 
 
 The fact is one which ought to be borne in 
 mind by every American citizen, that our 
 fathers of revolutionary memory had the vir- 
 tue to stand up frankly and boldly like men, 
 and to carry out their principles. They did 
 not care for the peculiar circimastances in 
 which they were placed. They discovered a 
 grand and noble truth as a platform upon 
 which they could base themselves, and when 
 charged with inconsistency, they had, like 
 Patrick Henry, the nobleness to say that they 
 would " so far pay their devoir to virtue as to 
 " own the excellence and rectitude of fier pre- 
 •• cepts, and to lament their own want of con- 
 " formity to them." 
 
 To prove this still further, I ask the atten- 
 tion of the Convention to a passage from Pat- 
 rick Henry to which I have just alluded. He 
 says: 
 
 " Is it not surprising that at a time when th« 
 rights of humanity are defined with precision in a 
 country above all others fond of liberty — that in 
 such an age and in such a country we find men, 
 professing a religion the most humane and gentle, 
 adopting a principle as repugnant to humanity as 
 
 it is inconsistent with the Bible and destructive to 
 liberty? Believe me, I honor the Quakers for 
 their noble efforts to abolish slavery. Every 
 thinking, honest man rejects it in speculation ; 
 yet how few in practice from conscientious mo- 
 tives. Would any man believe that I am master 
 of slaves of my own purchase ? I am drawn along 
 by the general inconvenience of living without 
 them. I will not, I cannot justify it. For however 
 culpable my conduct, I will so far pay my devoir 
 to virtue as to own the excellence and rectitude of 
 her precepts, and to lament my own conformity to 
 them." 
 
 That was noble in a man, if he had not the 
 courage to come up to his own standard of 
 right, he had not the meanness to try to ex- 
 cuse himself by saying that it was right for 
 him to do otherwise. And Franklin, who was 
 a member of the Convention that issued the 
 Declaration of Independence, and also a mem- 
 ber of the Convention that framed the Con- 
 stitution, subsequently presented a petition to 
 Congress in which his views upon the subject 
 of slavery and also of human equality — 
 which is applicable to this very question be- 
 fore us — was set forth more fully and in a 
 briefer form than I have been able to find 
 elsewhere. I wiU read a part of that memo- 
 rial which was presented to Congress, signed 
 by him in his oflScial capacity as President of 
 the Pennsylvania Abolition Society : 
 
 " That mankind are all formed by the same Al- 
 mighty Being, alike objects of his care and equally 
 designed for the enjoyment of happiness, the 
 Christian religion teaches us to believe ; and the 
 poUtical creed of Americans fully coincides with 
 the position. Tour memorialists, particularly en- 
 gaged in attending to the distresses arising from 
 slavery believe it to be their indUpensabU dvty to 
 present this subject to your notice. They have 
 observed with real satisfaction that many impor 
 tant and salutary powers are vested in you ; for 
 promoting the welfare and securing the blessings 
 of liberty to the people of the United States, and 
 as they conceive that these blessings ought right- 
 fully to be administered, without distinction of col- 
 or, to all description of people, so they indulge 
 themselves in the pleasing expectation that noth- 
 ing which can be done for the relief of the un- 
 happy objects of their care will be either omitted 
 or delayed. 
 
 " From a persuasion that equal liberty was ori- 
 ginally the position and is still the birthright of 
 all men;" 
 
 ' Equal liberty, the birthright of all men P 
 — there are some at the present day who 
 would have that Uberty unequal, which Frank- 
 lin here says is the birthright of aU men. 
 
8S4 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, August 6. 
 
 " And influenced by the strong ties of humanity 
 and the principles of their institution your memo- 
 rialists conceive themselves bound to use all justi- 
 fiable endeavors to loosen the bonds of slavery, 
 and promote a general enjoyment of the blessing 
 of freedom. Under these impressions they ear- 
 nestly entreat your serious attention to the subject 
 of slavery ; that you will be pleased to counte- 
 nance the restoration of liberty to those unhappy 
 men, who alone, in this land of freedom, are de- 
 graded into perpetual bondage, and who, amidst 
 the general joy of surrounding freedom are groan- 
 ing in servile subjection ; that you vnll promote 
 justice and mercy towards this distressed race, and 
 that you will step to the very verge of the powers 
 vested in you for discouraging every species of 
 traffic in the persons of your fellow men." 
 
 So general was the feeling at that time on 
 the subject of the wrongs done to that class 
 of human beings held in bondage, that Jef- 
 erson used his utmost exertions to influence 
 gentlemen in England to come over to Amer- 
 ica to labor for the removal of that black 
 stain upon the body politic. He wrote a very 
 distinguished gentleman of London, Dr. Price, 
 upon the subject, and I will only read one sen- 
 tence to show what Jefferson thought of the 
 general views of the people on that subject. 
 In his letter to Dr. Price he says : — 
 
 "Northward of the Chesapeake, you may find 
 here and there an opponent to your doctrine, as 
 you may find, here and there, a robber and a mur- 
 derer, but in no great number." 
 
 Speaking upon the sulgect of legislation he 
 says : — 
 
 " And witili what execration should the states- 
 man be loaded, who, permitting one half of the 
 citizens, thus to trample on the rights of the 
 other." 
 
 — It seems that Jefferson regarded even the 
 slaves as citizens. — 
 
 " Thus to trample on the rights of the other, 
 transforms those into despots and these into ene- 
 mies—destroys the morals of the one part and the 
 anuyr patriae of the other. For if a slave can 
 have a country in this world, it must be any other 
 in preference to that in which he is bom to live 
 and labor for another, &c." 
 
 There is an idea which it would be well for 
 every citizen to reflect upon, that just as far 
 as we do wrong to any class of our citizens we 
 compel them to be enemies instead of friends. 
 They may not be driven to be enemies com- 
 pletely, but such a course is not calculated to 
 produce attachment to institutions which are 
 designed to crush them. 
 
 I am also opposed to the insertion of the 
 
 word " white" for the reason that the colored 
 men of the United States have done their full 
 share towards securing our liberties. They 
 have helped to fight our battles and win our 
 victories. As evidence upon this point, I will 
 read a few extracts from an authentic work 
 upon tliis subject, in which is enumerated some 
 particular instances in which colored patriots 
 of the revolution sacrified their lives in fight- 
 ing those battles by which we gained those 
 blessings which we now enjoy. It is a fact 
 which we ought to remember, that the first 
 man that fell in the battle of the revolution in 
 Boston was a colored man. Botta, in his his- 
 tory, speaking of the scenes of the fifth of 
 March says : 
 
 "The people were greatly exasperated. The 
 multitute ran towards King street, crying ' Let us 
 drive out these ribalds ; they have no btisiness here.' 
 
 "The rioters rushed furiously towards the Cus- 
 tom House ; they approached the sentinel, crying 
 ' MU him, kill Mm!' They assaulted him with 
 snow balls, pieces of ice, and whatever they could 
 lay their hands upon. Tlie guard were then called, 
 and in marching to the Custom House, they en- 
 countered a band of populace, led by a mulatto 
 named Attucks, who brandished their clubs, and 
 pelted them with snow balls. The maledictions, 
 the imprecations, the execrations of the multitude, 
 were horrible. In the midst of a torrent of in- 
 vective from every quarter, the military were chal- 
 lenged to fire. The populace advanced to the 
 points of their bayonets. The soldiers appeared 
 like statues ; the cries, the bowlings, the menaces, 
 the violent din of bells still sounding the alarm, 
 increased the confusion and the horror of these 
 moments ; at length the mulatto and twelve of his 
 companions, pressing forward, environed the sol- 
 diers, and striking their muskets with their clubs, 
 cried to the multitude ' be not afraid, they dare 
 not fire ; why do you hesitate, why do you not kill 
 them, why not crush them at once ?' The mulatto 
 lifted his arm against Capt. Prescott, and having 
 turned one of the muskets, he seized the bayonet 
 with his left hand, as if ho intended to execute 
 his threat. At this moment confused cries were 
 heard, ' the wr itches dare not jire' Firing suc- 
 ceeds. Attucks is slain. The other discharges 
 follow. Three were killed, five severely wounded, 
 and others slightly." 
 
 John Adams, counsel for the soldiers ad- 
 mitted that Attucks appeared to have under- 
 taken to be the hero of the night, and to lead 
 the people. 
 
 At Bunker Hijl, the laan wljo shot Major 
 Pitcairn was a colored man. Sweet, in lijs 
 sketches of the Bunker Hill battle says : 
 
 "Major Fitooini caused the firit efi^ioa of 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursdat. August 6. 
 
 m 
 
 blood at Lexington. In that battle his horse wag 
 shot under him, while he was separated from hiS 
 troops. With presence of mind, he feigned him- 
 self slain ; his pistols were taken from his holsters 
 and he was left for dead, when he seized the op- 
 portunity and escaped. He appeared at Bunker 
 Hill, and sayest the historian, among those who 
 mounted the works was the gallant Major Pitcaim, 
 who exaltantly cried out " the day is ours," when 
 a black soldier named Salem'shot him through and 
 he fell. His agonized son received him in his 
 arms, and tenderly bore him to the boats. A con- 
 tribution was made in the army for the colored 
 soldier, and he was presented to Washington as 
 haTing performed this feat." 
 
 In order to confirm this statement, I will 
 read an extract from the address of the Hon. 
 Edwabd Evebett, oh the occasion of the 
 erection of the Warren monimient to com- 
 memorate the heroes of that battle. Mr. 
 Everett says : 
 
 " It is the monument of the day of the event 
 of the battle of Bunker Hill ; of all the brave men 
 who shared its perils— alike;of Prescott, and Put- 
 nam, and Warren — the chiefs of the day, and the 
 colored man Salem, who is reported to have shot 
 the gallant Pitcairn as he mounted the parapet. 
 Cold as the clods on which it reats ; still as the 
 silent Heaven to which it soars, it is yet vocal, 
 eloquent, in their undivided praise: Till the pon- 
 derous and well compacted blotks of granite which 
 no force but that of an earthquake will heave from 
 •their bearings, shall fall asunder, it will stand to 
 the most distant posterity, a grand, impartial illus- 
 tration (nature's own massive lithography) of the 
 noble page, second to no other in the annals of 
 America, on which ;history shall write down the 
 names and the deeds of the seventeenth of June, 
 1775." 
 
 That monument commemorates thie deeds 
 of colored men as well as white men, and it 
 is refreshing in these days of forgetfiihiess of 
 such services to find now and then a gem 
 like that from such a man as Everett, recall- 
 ing to mind the fact that we are indebted 
 somewhat to adored men for the hberties we 
 enjoy. 
 
 During the revolution it^was determinedby 
 the Legislature of Khode Island, to raise a 
 colored regiment, asxA. here is the whole bill, 
 covering two pages, providing iSw their enlist- 
 ment as soldiers. 
 
 Massachusetts did the same thing, and 
 General "Wilson, in the Massachusetts Con- 
 stitutional Convention, alludes to it in the fol- 
 lowing language. 
 
 " The first victim of the Boston massacre, on 
 the fifth of March, 1770, which made the fires of 
 
 resistance bum more intensely, was a colored 
 man. Hundreds of colored men entered the ranks 
 and fought bravely on all the fields of the revolu- 
 tion. Graydon, of Pennsylvania, in his memoirs, 
 informs us that many of the southern officers dis- 
 liked the Xew England regiments because so many 
 colored men were in their ranks. , When the 
 country has required their blood in the days of 
 trial and conflict, they have given it freely and we 
 have accepted it ; but in times of peace, when their 
 blood is not needed, we shun and trample them 
 under foot. I have no part in this great wrong 
 to a race. Wherever, and whenever we have the 
 power to do it, I would give to all men, of every 
 clime and race, of every faith and creed, freedom 
 and equality before the law. My voice and my 
 vote shall ever be given for the equality of all the 
 children of men, before the laws of the common- 
 wealth of Massachusetts and the United States." 
 
 That sentiment I fully endorse. During 
 the revolutionary war, after a protracted con- 
 test had rendered it difiBcult to procure re- 
 cruits for the army, the colony of Connecti- 
 cut adopted the expedient of forming a corps 
 of colored soldiers : 
 
 " A battallion of the blacks was soon enlisted, 
 and throughout the war conducted themselves 
 with fidelity, and efficiency. iTie late General 
 Humphreys, then a captain, commanded a com- 
 pany of this corps. It is said that some objections 
 were made on the part of officers to accepting the 
 command of colored troops. In this exigency. 
 Captain Humphreys, who was attached to the fam- 
 ily of Gen. Washington, volunteered his services. 
 His patriotism was rewarded, and his fellow ofll- 
 cers were afterwards as desirous to obtain appoint- 
 ments in that corps as they had previously been 
 to avoid them." 
 
 During the same war the Legislature of 
 New York passed an act granting freedom to 
 all slaves who served in the army three years 
 and were regularly discharged. Mr. Mar- 
 TisDALE, of New York, said in Congress, on 
 the twenfy-secolid day of January, 1828 : 
 
 "Slaves, or negroes who had been slaves, were 
 enlisted as soldiers in the war of the revolution ; 
 I myself saw a battalion of them, as fine martial 
 looking men as I ever saw, attached to the north- 
 ern army, in the last war, on its march from Platts- 
 burgto Sackett's Harbor." 
 
 Among other reminiscences connected with 
 the revolution, the celebrated Mr. Fort en, 
 who had been himself a soldier in the revolu- 
 tion for a long time and a prisoner on the old 
 Jersey prison ship, often alluded to the part 
 taken by colored men in the war. Says he : 
 
 " Saw the regiments from Rhode Island, Con- 
 necticnt and Hassacbusetto when ther mardied 
 
358 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thubsdat, August 6. 
 
 through Philadelphia to meet Cornwallis, who 
 was then overninning the South, and said that 
 one or two companies of colored men were at- 
 tached to each. The vessels of war of that period 
 were all to a greater or less extent, manned by 
 colored seamen. On board the Royal Louis, on 
 which Mr. Forten enlisted, there were twenty col- 
 ored seamen ; the Alliance, of thirty-six guns, 
 Commodore Barry ; the Trumbull, of thirty-two 
 guns. Captain Nicholson, and the ships South, 
 Carolina, Confederacy, and Randolph, were all 
 manned in part, by colored men." 
 
 Captain Sealer, of the brig, Governor 
 Tompkins, who had some remarkable ad- 
 ventures in the late war, speaks of two col- 
 ored men of that crew in the following lan- 
 guage: 
 
 " The name of one of my poor fellows who was 
 killed ought to be registered in the books of fame, 
 and remembered with reverence as long as bra- 
 very is considered a virtue. He was a black man 
 by the name of John Johnson. A twenty-four 
 pound shot struck him in the hip and took away 
 all the lower part of his body. In this state the 
 poor brave fellow lay on the deck, and several 
 times exclaimed to his shipmates, fire a/way my 
 boys! — not haul a color down! " 
 
 " The other was also a black man by the name 
 of John Davis, and was struck in much the same 
 way. He fell near me, and several times requested 
 to be thrown overboard, saying, Tie was only in the 
 way of others. While America has such tars, she 
 has little to fear from the tyrants of Europe." 
 
 The celebrated Charles Pinckney, Esq., of 
 South Carolina, in his speech on the Missouri 
 question, and in defence of the slave repre- 
 sentation of the South, made the following 
 admissions : 
 
 "At the commencement of our revolutionary 
 •truggle with Great Britain, all the States had 
 this class of people. The New England States had 
 numbers of them ; the Northern and Middle States 
 had still more, although less than the Southern. 
 They all entered into the great contest with similar 
 views. Like brethren they contended for the 
 benefit of the whole, leaving to each the right to 
 pursue its happiness in its own way. Thus they 
 nobly toiled and bled together, really like brethren. 
 And it is a remarkable fact, that notwithstanding, 
 in the course of the Revolution, the Southern 
 States were continually overrun by the British, 
 and every negro in them had an opportunity of 
 running away, yet few did. They then were, as 
 they still are, as valuable a part of our population 
 to the Union, as any other equal number of inhab- 
 itants. They were, in numerous instances, the 
 prisoners, and in all, the laborers of your armies. 
 To their hands were owing the erection of the 
 greatest part of the fortifications raised for the 
 protection of our country. Fort Moultrie gave, at 
 
 aa early period of the inexperience and untried 
 valor of our citizens, immortality to American 
 arms. And in the Northern States numerous 
 bodies of them were enrolled and fought side by 
 side with the whites the battles of the Revolution." 
 
 After the famous battle of New Orleans, 
 which gained so much renown to General 
 Jackson, it is well known that we called upon 
 the colored men to engage in that fight. In 
 his call upon them, he used the following 
 language in his proclamation from his head- 
 quarters at Mobile : 
 
 " Through a mistaken policy, you have hereto- 
 fore been deprived of a participation in the glori- 
 ous struggle for national rights in which our 
 country is engaged. This no longer shall exist. 
 As sons oi freedom you are now called upon to 
 defend our most inestimable blessings. AsATneri- 
 cans, your country looks with confidence to her 
 adopted citizens for a valorous support, as a 
 faithful return for the advantages enjoyed under 
 her mild and equitable government. As fathers, 
 husbands and brothers, you are summoned to 
 rally around the standard of the eagle to defend 
 all which is dear in existence. * * * * 
 To assure you of the sincerity of my intentions, 
 and my anxiety to engage your invaluable services 
 to our country, I have communicated my wishes to 
 the Governor of Louisiana, who is fully informed 
 as to the manner of enrollments, and will give you 
 every necessary information on the subject of this 
 address." 
 
 From another subsequent proclamation, I* 
 extract the following language : 
 
 " SoLDiKRS !— When on the banks of the Mobile 
 I called you to take up arms, inviting you to 
 partake the perils and glory of yowr white 
 fellow citizens, /expected much of you; for I was 
 not ignorant that you possessed qualities most 
 formidable to an invading enemy. I knew with 
 what fortitude you could endure hunger and thirst, 
 and all the fatigues of a campaign. / knew well 
 haw you loved your native country, and that you 
 as well as ourselves, had to defend what man 
 holds most dear— his parents, wife, children and 
 property. You ?iave done more than I expected. 
 In addition to the previous qualities I before knew 
 you to possess, I found among you a noble enthu- 
 siasm which leads to the performance of great 
 things. Soldiers, the President of the United 
 States shall hear how praiseworthy was your con- 
 duct in the hour of danger, and the representatives 
 of the American people will give you the praise 
 your exploits entitle you to. Your General antici- 
 pates them in applauding your noble ardor." 
 
 General Jackson was willing to admit that 
 this was their native country, but I notice 
 that when gentlemen here try to deprive them 
 of the right of suffrage, they say that they 
 have no business hero ; that this is not their 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thtbsd at, August 6. 
 
 357 
 
 country, and that they should go home where 
 they belong. Such vas not the language of 
 General Jackson to the colored soldiers of the 
 war of 1812. 
 
 Hon. Robert C. Winthrop, in his speech in 
 Congress in 1850, on the imprisonment of 
 colored seamen, bore this testimony to the 
 gallant conduct of the colored soldiers in 
 New Orleans : 
 
 "I have an impression that, not indeed in those 
 piping times of peace, but in the time of war, 
 when quite a boy, I have seen black soldiers en- 
 listed who did faithful and excellent service. 
 
 "But however it may have been in the Jforthem 
 States, I can tell the Senator what happened in the 
 Southern States at this period. I believe I shall 
 be borne out in saying that no regiments did 
 better service at New Orleans, than did the black 
 regiments, which were organized under the direc- 
 tion of General Jackson himself, after a most 
 glorious appeal to the patriotism and honor of the 
 people of color of that region, and which, after 
 they came out of the war, received the thanks of 
 General Jackson, in a proclamation which has 
 been thought worth to be inscribed on the pages 
 of history." 
 
 From the documents it appears that there 
 were over four hundred " men of color " in 
 that battle. But here it is proper to notice 
 the feet that Great Britain had her colored 
 soldiers in that battle ; the United States had 
 hers. Great Britain's became fireemen and 
 citizens ; those of the United States continued 
 only half free and half slaves. 
 
 What a disgrace to our country that Eng- 
 land, which we call an oppressive government, 
 can do justice to those who fight her battles, 
 while our own country, claiming to be more 
 free, more noble and wise than any other, con- 
 tinues such injustice, not only in the Southern 
 States, but here in free States and Territories, 
 where we all profess to believe that every 
 man has an equal right in the government. 
 What a disgrace that we will, fi^m mere tem- 
 porary expediency, rob men of what we all 
 know is their just due. We ought to rise 
 above this prejudice, and for once do that 
 justice which has been so long delayed. 
 
 In view of aU these circumstances a colored 
 man makes the following appeal to his 
 countr3rmen : 
 
 " We are naivvea of this country ; we ask only to 
 be treated as well OBforeignerg. Not a few of our 
 fathers suffered and bled to purchase its independ- 
 ence ; we only ask to be treated as well as those 
 who fought against it. We have toiled to cultivate 
 
 it, and to raise it to its 'present prosperous condi- 
 tion ; we only ask to share equal privileges with 
 those who come from distant lands to enjoy the 
 fruits of our labor." 
 
 When such an appeal is made to us, can 
 any man say that it is not a fair one ? one 
 which does not commend itself to the imder- 
 standing and heart of every American citi- 
 zen ? When they have fought our battles, is 
 it anything more than fair, that they should 
 be treated as well as those who fought against 
 us in that struggle ? And yet for the sake of 
 obtaining the favor of that very class of men 
 who fought against us, and from a fear of in- 
 curring their opposition, gentlemen will con- 
 sent to trample in the dust that very class of 
 men who stood by us in the hour of need, 
 and commend to our utmost favor that class 
 which fought us to the death. We ought at 
 least to have the virtue to do as much justice 
 to otir friends as we have done to our ene- 
 mies. 
 
 If there is anything on earth that is per- 
 fectly despicable, it is one, who having been 
 suddenly raised fix)m a low degree, to afflu- 
 ence and honor, forgets or scorns the friends 
 of former years, and who were friends in ad- 
 versity. There is no one of us but would 
 look with utter contempt upon a character of 
 that kind. And shall we try to fasten upon 
 this new State the character we would despise 
 in an individual ? Shall we turn coldly away 
 from the demand of justice and humanity, and 
 from appeals which come to us as strongly as 
 appeals can come to the human mind and 
 heart, and lay aside all considerations of jus- 
 tice and compassion, and sneakingly oppress 
 those who were our friends in adversity but 
 who have been denied simple justice for more 
 than eighty years that we have existed as a 
 nation ? It seems to me that gentlemen 
 should take these things into consideration 
 before they insert the word " white" in this 
 Constitution, and thus cut off the rights of 
 those whose rights are equal in justice to our 
 own. 
 
 Again, I am opposed to the insertion of the 
 word " white" because it is inexpedient and 
 bad policy to put it there. It is much easier 
 to begin right and remain so, than it is to get 
 right after having begun wrong. We all know 
 how hard it is to correct abuses in govern- 
 ment ; how diflBcult to eradicate old evils, to 
 remove the prejudices of men, and the great 
 
858 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thitesday, August 6. 
 
 reverence for precedents. We can look back 
 here and see how much we are governed by 
 precedents. If men here can find precedents 
 in some old Constitutions, they rely upon 
 them as that by which we should be governed 
 in framing our own Constitution. Precedents 
 have their influence upon the human mind, 
 and I say we are now here making prece- 
 dents. Coming generations will look back to 
 this Constitution as a precedent, and the time 
 is coming when they will say that the men 
 who framed this Constitution did as well as 
 they could under the circumstances, and give 
 us quite as much credit as we deserve for sin- 
 cerity, honesty and patriotism in framing this 
 instrument. Do not let us claim a credit 
 which is not due, and give them a precedent 
 which will lead them astray. Do not let us 
 consent to do what we know is wrong, be- 
 cause we think it is the policy of the hour. 
 I am opposed, and shall ever be opposed to 
 that kind of policy which sacrifices principle 
 and requires us to countenance injustice' for 
 the sake of mere temporary success. 
 
 But I do not believe that success is to be 
 gained by sacrificing principle. By taking 
 that course we are going backward as a na- 
 tion, while other nations are going forward. 
 
 Some gentlemen say, "You are right in 
 " theory. In the abstract we will agree with 
 " you, and all of us will be with you soon, 
 " but you must not press things too fast." 
 Is it going too fast after the lapse of eighty 
 years to come up to the standard, our fathers 
 marked out for us ? Is it going too fast if we 
 do not go beyond a point to which they -ivent 
 eighty years ago ? While the Eussian Gov- 
 ernment has set itself against the extension 
 of serfdom, and the Sultan of Turkey, the 
 Bey of Algiers and of Tunis, and even the 
 King of Morocco have set their faces against 
 slavery and are making progress in favor of 
 the right and of human liberty, what do we 
 see in our own country ? Republican Amer- 
 ica, claiming to be the wisest, the most exalt- 
 ed, and ihe noblest nation on the face of the 
 earth, is retrograding from the high standard 
 set up by the fathers, and is fighting to-day 
 for the extension of human bondage. While 
 the monarchies of Europe are liberalizing 
 their governments and increasing the guaran- 
 tees to human liberty, shall we go backward 
 and endeavor to put on the cast-off barbarism 
 
 of Eastern despots, and trample in the dust 
 our own citizens ? Here in this Northern 
 Territory, peopled by New England men who 
 were brought up where every man enjoyed 
 his freedom, and educated under institutions 
 which gave to every man equal rights in the 
 government ? Even here in this Convention, 
 we are told that we must not come up to the 
 standard which our fathers established more 
 than eighty years ago. We should not go 
 backward; we should hot retrograde, but 
 should, at least, have the virtue to come up 
 to the mark our fathers set us, if we cannot 
 go beyond it. But in this day of light, 
 knowledge and virtue, it is a disgrace to the 
 son to hold that he cannot go beyond his fath- 
 er. It is a disgrade to any man not to be 
 able to improve upon the wisdom of the past. 
 We, as American citizens, successors of revo- 
 lutionary patriots should not be content mere- 
 ly to come up to their mark. It is a matter 
 of surprise that those noble men accomplished 
 so much for hmnanity in the short time in 
 which they labored. But they left a work 
 for us to accomplish, and we ought not to 
 prove recreant to the trust or despise the ex- 
 ample they set us. To institute a mere tem- 
 porary policy, which rejects all principle, is 
 itself a wrong for which future generations 
 must suffer, and for which they w\]l condemn 
 us. 
 
 But how does it appear to the eyes of na- 
 tions, that while the governments and despot- 
 isms of the old world are casting off their rel- 
 ics of barbarism we are endeavoring to put 
 them on ? In what light shall we be viewed 
 by coming generations if this is our position 
 and the stand we are to take ? 
 
 But there is another thing which we ought 
 not to overlook, and that is the degrading in- 
 fluence which this course will exert upon our 
 own citizens ? Our foreign population, igno- 
 rant and degraded, when they come here — 
 (T speak of those who are most oppressed in 
 their own countries,) — stand at the polls, side 
 by side with the opulent of the land, and they 
 rise in dignity, manhood and respectability, 
 because they have a ballot to deposit, and a 
 voice in the government ; and that ballot 
 shields them from wrong. Men will not tram- 
 ple on them when they remember that they 
 arc American citizens, possessing the right to 
 deposit a ballot in favor of men who will rule 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— *t7Bsday, ArousT 6. 
 
 359 
 
 over them, with justice. It is an ennobling 
 and elevating influence, and I rejoice that it is 
 so. But I object to those who bestow upon 
 our foreign citizens that right, turning round 
 and attempting to dispossess of those same 
 rights, men who are native bom citizens, and 
 whose ancestors fought the battles which won 
 our liberties. 
 
 The degrading influence it has upon society 
 is enough to make any man pause before he 
 votes to consummate this great wrong. I 
 like the sentiments of Goldsmith in his de- 
 serted village, when he says : 
 
 "111 fares the land to fostering ills a prey, 
 Where wealth accumulates and men decay ; 
 Princes and Lords, may flourish or may fade — 
 A breath can make them as a breath has made, 
 But a bold peasantry, their country's pride, 
 When once destroyed can never be supplied." 
 
 Trample men to the earth, grind them 
 down, make them lose their self-respect, their 
 hopes and their aspirations, and you create a 
 class in community that clogs the body poli- 
 tic. Treat them like men, and they become 
 men, defenders of the country, and a class 
 that materially assist in building up every 
 useful institution. Neither States nor com- 
 munities can sin with impimity in this respect, 
 and, as I said before, every nation upon the 
 fiice of the earth, show in its present condi- 
 tion how f^r it has sinned io that particular. 
 
 It is inexpedient, too, in another respect. As 
 members of the Convention we have claimed 
 to be ahead, somewhat at least, those who are 
 opposed to us in political sentiments. I know 
 of no principle but this that defines the two 
 parties and places them in a diiFerent position 
 from us, so far as Territorial and State policy 
 is concerned. Shall we for the sake of the 
 present moment, lose sight of the immense 
 advantage we gain firom the purity and exal_ 
 tation of our principles ? Shall we lower our- 
 selves down to the level of our opponents for 
 the purpose of taking the wind from their 
 sails for the moment ? If we gain by it to- 
 day we lose by it to-morrow. It is the worst 
 policy we can pursue. If we look at the past 
 experience of pditical parties we are compell- 
 ed to come to that conclusion. The Whig 
 party of the past d^enerated by adopting 
 this veiy policy. It was continually choosing 
 the least of two evils. It died as a partyi 
 and nothing in the world brou^t it to that 
 
 death but the want of a living and vital prin- 
 ciple, which should have governed them in. 
 
 stead of expediency. 
 
 The other party is to-day treading in their 
 footsteps. They are casting aside the princl 
 pies of Jefi'erson and the fathers. They are 
 ignoring th^ idea that there is any higher law 
 than their own corrupt machinations. And 
 what is their condition to-day? They are 
 sinking as fast as a political party ever sank. 
 The country is spevring them out of its mouth 
 in consequence of their rejection of princi- 
 ple. Let us be warned by their example, 
 and not do wrong in the hope of a temporary- 
 success. 
 
 But I am further opposed to the insertion 
 of the word "white," because it makes us 
 simply ridiculous. How are we to determine 
 legally and constitutionally who are voters, 
 imder such a restriction ? "What is to be the 
 standard of color ? There are as many shades 
 of complexion as there are difierences in the 
 contoiu: of countenances. There are as many 
 shades of color of the hair, of the eyes, of 
 the skin, as there are individuals in the world. 
 If we are to have that word inserted, we 
 should have some standard by which to show 
 just about how much whiteness we should 
 have, or how much blackness we could bear, 
 so that we may unerringly know, when a man 
 comes to the polls, whether he can be legally 
 and constitutionally rejected or not. Shall 
 we submit that to the judges of the election ? 
 I ask if there is any man in the Union who 
 would not laugh at their perplexity? Let 
 them undertake to do it legally and candidly, 
 and their perplexity would make them a 
 laughing-stock. We make ourselves ridicu- 
 lous when we insert that word in our Consti- 
 tution. One judge, of strong prejudices, sees 
 a man come up to the polls to vote who is as 
 white as any man in this Convention, but he 
 finds out he has negro blood in his veins, and 
 he rejects him. Another judge, of less pre- 
 judice, sees a man come to the polls who is 
 three-quarters African, but has a tolerably 
 white complexion, and he passes his vote. 
 And so the rule will vibrate from one extreme 
 to another, according to the prejudices of 
 men. The right of a man in this Government 
 to vote, ought not to be dependent upon 
 caprice and whim. It ought to be placed upon 
 some mor^pecific, firm and reliable basis. 
 
360 
 
 MINNESOTA CONfENTION DEBATES— Thtjbsday, August 6. 
 
 I am opposed to it also because it would 
 cut off, if it is adopted and consistently car- 
 ried out — as it should be if at all — some of 
 the honorable gentlemen in the other end of 
 the Capitol. Now I would protect those men 
 in theu" rights, and whUe I would protect 
 them I would not cut off the rights of other 
 men in this city who are quite as intelligent, 
 quite as refined and as much men in all the 
 qualities which make the man. 
 
 Another thing. It does not become men 
 to admit the rights of the Indians and half- 
 breeds of this Territory, and at the same 
 time despise the mixed blood of the other 
 race. I hold that the blood of the frst fam- 
 ilies of Virginia, running in the veins of 
 mulattoes is as elevating and whitening in its 
 influence as the blood of the Indian traders, 
 whisky sellers and gamblers running in the 
 veins of the half-bre«d Sioux and "Winneba- 
 goes, and quite as much to be respected. I 
 am not particularly partial to the blood of the 
 first families of Virginia, but I am convinced 
 nevertheless, that their blood running in the 
 veins of the slaves is as much to be respected 
 as that of the whisky seller, Indian trader and 
 gamblers in the veins of half-breeds of this 
 Territory. And I regret to see gentlemen 
 upon this floor discriminate and advocate the 
 right of the half-breed Indians to vote, and 
 deny that right to half-breed negroes. The 
 one is quite as honorable as the other. 
 
 With these remarks I submit the question 
 hoping that we shall act upon this subject 
 with candor and fairness, and not to be car- 
 ried away with ideas of pohcy, which govern 
 only for to-day, in making a Constitution for 
 years. I hope we shall make such a Consti- 
 tution as we shall not look back upon with 
 shame and self-reproach in coming time. 
 
 The question being on the amendment to 
 strike out the word " white" — 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH moved a call of the 
 Convention. 
 
 A call was ordered, and the roll being 
 called, the following members failed to answer 
 to their names : 
 
 Messrs. Anderson, Ajer, Billings, BoUes, Coe, 
 Coombs, Hall, Hudson, Murphy, Peckbam, Rob- 
 bins, Thompson, Winell, and Watson. 
 
 Pending the call — 
 
 Mr. COLBURN stated that Mr. Billihgs 
 was confined to his room by sickness, and 
 
 that Mr. Bolles had been compelled to return 
 home on account of sickness in his family. 
 
 Mr. HARDING moved that all further pro- 
 ceedings under the call be dispensed with. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH stated that Mr. Ayeb was 
 absent from the city. 
 
 The Sergeant-at-Arms was directed to re- 
 port the absentees in their seats. 
 
 After an interval of half an hour — 
 
 Mr. WILSON moved to reconsider the vote 
 by which the Convention refused to suspend 
 further proceedings imder the call. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Did the gentleman vote 
 with the majority. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I beUeve I did, but I do 
 not exactly recollect. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I voted with the majori- 
 ty, and I move to reconsider. 
 
 • Mr. KING. I voted with the majority, and 
 I second it. 
 
 The motion to reconsider prevailed, and 
 then all further proceedings under the call 
 were dispensed with. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. As a member of the com- 
 mittee which reported this article, I deem it 
 proper that the Convention should under- 
 stand just how this matter stands. It is 
 agreed and understood by the majority of the 
 committee, that if the word " white" is left 
 in the Constitution, there shall be a separate 
 article drawn up and inserted in the schedule, 
 or made a distinct proposition — for this is not 
 the proper place for it — submitting this ques- 
 tion to a direct vote of the people, at the same 
 election at which the people vote on this Con- 
 stitution. I, myself, am in favor of lea'^ing 
 the word " white" in the Constitution, and, 
 so far as I know, all the members of the com- 
 mittee, with the exception of the gentleman 
 from Rice county, (Mr. North,) are in favor 
 of the same thing. If the word " white" is 
 taken out, stDl the section will read correctly 
 without any further alterations to correspond. 
 The section was drawn with special reference to 
 that possible action of the Convention. With 
 the understanding I have mentioned, I shall 
 vote against striking out the word " white." 
 
 We are framing a Constitution for the 
 whole State. We are not framing a Repub- 
 lican or a Democratic Constitution. And if 
 we were framing a Constitution for the Re- 
 publicans, I am not aware that it is any part 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thtbsdat, Acgcst 6. 
 
 361 
 
 of the Republican creed to admit negroes to 
 an equal right of suffrage ; nor do I wish to 
 inaugurate any such system until I know the 
 wishes of the people in that respect. They 
 have not expressed themselves upon the sub- 
 ject. I am in favor of submitting the ques- 
 tion to them, and if they say, strike out the 
 word " white," I bow respectfully to their 
 judgment ; and if they say retain it, I say 
 "amen" to that. I do think it would be 
 wrong, on a question like this, where no party 
 has taken a stand upon it, to depart from the 
 ordinary course. The people's attention has 
 not been called to the subject. The practice 
 hitherto in this Territory, has been to allow 
 no negro to vote, nor any person tainted with 
 negro blood. I think the fair way is to leave 
 this matter as it stands. The people have not 
 demanded a change from us. Leave it as it 
 is, and submit a fair proposition to the people, 
 whether or not they wish a change. "VYhat 
 more should any one ask ? 
 
 I thought explanation thus far necessary as 
 to the intention of the committee. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. If it should be stricken out, 
 the question could just as easDy be submitted 
 to the people, to have them determine whether 
 they would have it inserted. I think that 
 would make the Constitution in harmony with 
 the views of a large majority of this Conven- 
 tion — a body which is almost entirely, upon 
 principle, in favor of leaving it out, but upon 
 policy, of keeping it in. Do not let us insert 
 a word into the Constitution, and then go be- 
 fore the people and say, " We want you to 
 " strike it out for us. "We have acted against 
 *' our own convictions of right, and we want 
 " you to help us out of the difficulty." 
 
 And here allow me to say, that a large 
 number of the best Republicans of the Terri- 
 tory, feel upon this matter very deeply, and 
 many of them say they cannot support a 
 Constitution which thus violates their princi- 
 ples. Men have this matter at heart. They 
 insist that the word shall be left out, and that 
 we shall give the people the right to say 
 whether it shall be inserted or not. Then 
 they will be with us ; otherwise they cannot be. 
 
 Mr. "WILSON. I protest against any gen- 
 tleman saying that a large majority of this 
 Convention are acting upon this subject con- 
 trary to their conscientious convictions and 
 feelings, out of motives of policy. 
 46 
 
 Mr. NORTH. A vote of this body was 
 taken — to be sure not in the Convention — and 
 there were not to exceed six of this entire 
 Convention but would vote, when it came in 
 question at the polls, in favor of striking out 
 this word " white." 
 
 Mr. KEMP. Was that recorded on the re- 
 cord ? 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Not at all ; and I do not 
 know of any such action of this Convention. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Not in Convention. I ex- 
 press the sentiments made by the members 
 of this body, in caucus. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. If that be an argument 
 for members of this Convention, it is a spe- 
 cies of argument, of the propriety and strength 
 of which I know nothing. If it be advanced 
 for the purpose of driving in anybody to vote 
 for the gentleman's motion, I would like to 
 know it. I suspected such a thing at the 
 time, and some gentleman declared that the 
 vote was taken at that caucus for such a pur- 
 pose. I protested against any such vote. 
 Many gentlemen voted to satisfy that gentle- 
 man, and now it is brought up here — a vote 
 which the Convention knows nothing of. I 
 protest against it. 
 
 Another idea; the course we are taking 
 to leave the word in, and leaving the peo- 
 ple to strike it out, is according to custom, 
 and I think it is wise, before we change that 
 custom, to ask the people whether they want 
 a change, rather than first say that we will 
 change this thing for them, and if they do not 
 like it, let them change it back. Ours is the 
 correct and philosophic mode. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. Mr. Pbesident. I hope 
 our fi-iends will not become excited on the 
 subject, but keep cool. I am unable to see 
 how a great principle is to be sacrificed either 
 by allowing this word to remain, or by strik- 
 ing it out since the people have to vote upon 
 the matter. As far as I am concerned, I 
 shall vote here for leaving it in, and I don't 
 know that it's any gentleman's business how 
 I shall vote on it at the polls. We are now 
 forming a Constitution, and I believe it is 
 agreed on all sides, that this matter shall be 
 left for the people to decide at the time of the 
 adoptipn of the Constitution ; and for the life 
 of me, I cannot see the importance of this 
 question here. 
 
 Gentlemen on, both sides, talk about the 
 
S62 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thuesdat, August 6. 
 
 sacrifice of principle : but I cannot understand 
 how I would sacrifice my principles by voting 
 either way ; for the simple reason, that the 
 proposition is to go to the people. But if, af- 
 ter the submission of the question to the peo- 
 ple, I should vote against my sense of right, 
 as a matter of policy I should sacrifice a 
 principle. As far as the Republican party is 
 concerned, this question never was a plank in 
 our Platform — never was thought of— never 
 was attempted to be put in. I presume every 
 member knows that. Republicans may be 
 in favor of striking tliis word out, and nobody 
 blames them ; and then again, a great many 
 may be opposed to striking it out, and nobody 
 accuses them of dissenting from the party 
 for such views. Therefore I can see no occa- 
 sion, certainly, for getting excited on this 
 question. So far as I am concerned, I keep 
 cool, and when I come to the polls to vote I 
 shall vote as I please. The whole contro- 
 versy is, shall we leave the woi'd out, and let 
 the people put it in ? or, shall we leave it in, 
 and let the people strike it out ? It is merely 
 a matter to go to the people ; and I say again, 
 for the life of me, I cannot see any great 
 difference whether it be in or out. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. [Mr. Stannakd being 
 in the Chair.] The gentleman from Goodhue 
 (Mr. McClube) has made much the same 
 remark I intended to make, which of course 
 leaves no necessity for repeating it; and I 
 should not rise now, if it had not been alleged 
 that we have had an expresion in favor of 
 this amendment. There was, at one time 
 here, a consultation to get at an expression 
 of the feeling of our friends upon this partic- 
 ular subject. It was also then thrown out, 
 that there might be an ulterior object in view, 
 in attempting at that time, to get an express- 
 ion on the subject. I denied it at the time, 
 and I d«ny it now. There was no expression 
 given ; at least, it was no part of my inten- 
 tion. I had no such idea ; and I wish to di- 
 vest myself entirely of blame in the matter. 
 The gentleman who has alluded to the matter 
 has done so upon his own responsibility. 
 
 While I am up, I will notice one remark 
 which the gentleman made in his speech. He 
 stated, that the only distinctive difference 
 between the two parties, in this Territory, 
 was on this question of negro suffrage. Now, 
 sir, I deny that .that is the difference. I 
 
 deny that the Republican party, as a party, 
 have adopted equality of suffrage as a plank 
 in the platform of the party. I deny it, 
 knowing what I say, sir, it has been my pol- 
 icy, and I believe it has been the policy of a 
 majority of the members of this Convention, 
 to keep the distinction clear between the two 
 parties ; but this suffrage issue is no part of 
 it. What is it ? Opposition to the further 
 extension of slavery. 
 
 Mr. NORTH (Interrupting). I desire to 
 correct the gentleman. I stated distinctly, 
 that was the difference, as far as the politics 
 of the State were concerned. No further. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. Very well; I take the 
 gentleman upon that ground, and I say here, 
 that it is not the wish of a majority of this 
 Convention this day, to take that issue. It 
 is not the wish of the Republican party to 
 join issue upon that question. It is the wish 
 of the majority of the Republican party to 
 ignore that issue in our State politics. I be- 
 lieve it to be the desire of the majority of the 
 Republican party to ignore the Temperance 
 issue, and all other side issues. I believe 
 that is the principle upon which the party 
 was formed. For instance : I am in favor 
 of a protective tariff; I agree to lay that 
 aside, and agree with my friend here fi"om 
 Steele county, (Mr. Coggswell) who is an 
 anti-protection man ; and he agrees to lay that 
 aside and all other issues, that we may stand 
 together and fight to the best of our ability 
 against the further extension of slavery and 
 the slave power. We do not fight for the 
 abolition of slavery ; we do not fight for negro 
 suffrage ; nor for the abolition of slavery in 
 any particular locality ; nor against the fugi- 
 tive slave law ; but the party was formed for 
 an express purpose — for one purpose only. 
 Now, I suppose, for instance, there are a ma- 
 jority of protective tariff" men in this Conven- 
 tion ; and suppose further, that should I 
 insist upon a protective tariff^, and require 
 that to be placed in the platform ; would not 
 that ibe doing injustice to my Democratic 
 friend, who come into the party with me 
 under the impression that wo had laid that 
 aside in our Union ? Again, on the subject 
 of Temperance. I am a temperance man. I 
 have belonged to all the temperance societies 
 that have existed, since I was twenty-one 
 years of age ; and I never drank a glass of 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Thtbsdat, Acgust 6. 
 
 363 
 
 liquor at a bar, except as a medicinal prescrip- 
 tion ; bnt I never will agree that a temperance 
 plank shall be in the Republican platform; 
 and I say it would be a violation of our party 
 oi"ganization. So, when another portion of 
 the party alleges that negro sufirage is a 
 plank in the platform, I shall deny it, and say 
 it is not the principle upon which I united 
 with my finend fix)m Steele county in sustain- 
 ing. We imited upon the understanding, 
 that all other issues should be laid aside 
 except that one ; and that we would work 
 together, shoulder to shoulder, against the 
 further aggressions of the slave power, and 
 confine ourselves to that issue, and to that 
 alone. 
 
 Now, as to the question : Like my friend 
 from Goodhue, (Mr. McClure) I cannot see 
 for the life of me, why gentlemen cannot just 
 leave it to the people. Is it because they are 
 afraid of the pe<^le — ^because they distrust 
 the people on this question? If they do, 
 then they insert a provision whidi they know 
 is against the wishes; of the people, and which 
 will have a tendency to endanger the accept- 
 ance of OUT Constitution by the people. Now 
 I submit it to the candid ccmsideration of the 
 membei^ of this Convention who are in favor 
 of equal sufirage without reference to color, 
 whether it is not wrong under such a state of 
 things to strike out this word " white." You 
 admit that it is not a plank in the platform of 
 the Republican party, yet you ask us to adopt 
 your peculiar views to the serious embarrass- 
 ment of our party in the coming canvass. 
 
 I regret exceedingly that this question has 
 assimied its present aspect I had believed 
 that it was substantially settied elsewhere in 
 accordance with the report of the committee 
 on sufirage. As I said before, I regret very 
 much that this matter has been precipitated 
 upon us here, for I believe it can result in no 
 good, but much harm. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I desire to say in regard 
 to this question simply that I did not propose 
 to make any remarks upon this question. I 
 was pleased at the course the discussion took 
 until very recently, from the fact that it 
 seemed to be carried on amicably, and no 
 accusations were made against those who dif- 
 fered in opinion. The gentleman from Scott 
 county, (Mr. Galbbaith) and the gentieman 
 frwn Rice county, Mr. (Nobth) cairied on the 
 
 discussion in a very fair manner, and calcula- 
 ted to call out the particular opinions of indi- 
 viduals. I intended to record my vote with- 
 out any remarks. But when gentiemen tell 
 me that if I vote to strike out the word 
 " white," I vote for what I know wiU defeat 
 the Constitution, it demands from me an em- 
 phatic denial. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. Allow me to correct 
 the gentleman. I stated that if the gentie- 
 man had confidence in the people, why not 
 submit the question to the people ; and if they 
 had not confidence, and did not believe the 
 people would strike out the word " white," 
 why insist upon our striking it out, and 
 thereby leave it so that negroes will have the 
 right to vote, when they own that a majority 
 of the people will not favor a Constitution 
 with that provision in it. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I understand the gen- 
 tleman further to say that we were voting to 
 strike it out'when we knew it must defeat the 
 Constitution. Does the gentieman disclaim 
 that sentiment? 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I did not say so. I 
 said it was wrong for them to strike out the 
 word if they did know that feet, and that if 
 they felt that a majority of the people were 
 not in favor of negro sufirage, it was wrong 
 to insist that we should strike oul the word. 
 If they have confidence in the people why 
 not leave them to strike it out. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I accept the disclaimer 
 willingly, and am glad to be corrected. But 
 in reply to the question the gentieman pK>- 
 pounds, I would say that if a majority of this 
 Convention are satisfied that a majority of the 
 people are opposed to having the word "white" 
 in the Constitution, they would be recreant 
 to their duty if they do not strike it out. If 
 we are satisfied that the people do not desire 
 it, how can we go before them and say " we 
 "knew you were opposed to the' word remain- 
 "ing, but we put it in there, and leave you to 
 "correct our wrong ? " Would that be doing 
 our duty ? I do not pretend to know, and I 
 distinctiy state that I do not know whether a 
 majority of the people are in favor of the 
 word "white" being in the Constitution or 
 not. But I do know that I am myself op- 
 posed to inserting the word because I believe 
 it is wrong to do so. The grounds of that 
 wrong have been fully set forth by the gen- 
 
364 
 
 MINNESOTACONVENTION DEBATES- Thursday, August 6. 
 
 tleman from Rice county (Mr. North) and I 
 have been educated in that doctrine myself. 
 My first political education was in the old 
 democratic State of New Hampshire — the 
 banner State of democracy in New England. 
 The doctrine of negro suffrage prevailed 
 there, and negroes were permitted to vote. 
 But before I attained my majority circum- 
 stances caused my removal into the Whig 
 State of Massachusetts, then the banner 
 State of Whiggery. The same doctrine of ne- 
 gro suffrage existed there, and no one objected 
 to it. Is it strange then that under that sys- 
 tem of education I should still be in favor of 
 that doctrine, unless proof is brought up here 
 to show that it is wrong ? I honestly believe 
 that is right, and I claim the credit of being 
 honestly of that opinion. All I ask of gen- 
 tleman is to accord to me the same honesty 
 they claim for themselves. If the word is 
 retained in the Constitution I shall ask the 
 people to strike it out : or if it is Stricken out 
 by us, I shall ask them to insert it. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I have been alluded to with 
 severity by the gentleman from Winona for 
 speaking, perhaps inadvertantly, of an ex- 
 pression of the sentiments of the members of 
 this Convention upon this subject, and of 
 their voting contrary to their real sentifiients 
 on account of policy. The gentleman from 
 Winona says I alluded to that upon my own 
 responsibility. I always do that. I do not 
 ask other gentlemen to assume any portion 
 of the responsibility of what I say. All will 
 recollect that in my discussion of this ques- 
 tion, I did not discuss it upon any party 
 grounds. Gentlemen will bear me witness 
 that the only allusion I made to the Republi- 
 can party was this : That if we acted con- 
 trary to our convictions in this matter, we 
 gave up the distinctive features which distin- 
 guished us from the other party in our Ter- 
 ritory, so far as Territorial questions were 
 concerned. And we have had considerable 
 discussion arising out of the fact that I allu- 
 ded to the feet that some gentleman had ex- 
 pressed a determination to go against what 
 they knew to be right, as a matter of policy 
 under the circumstances. Now it has be- 
 come 80 common for members of this Con- 
 vention, openly to express the same senti- 
 ments I have expressed, ,that I do not con- 
 sider that I transgress any rule of propriety 
 
 in alluding to the oft repeated opinions of 
 gentlemen composing this Convention ; and I 
 was surprised that the gentleman from Wi- 
 nona, (Mr. Wilson) who had expressed the 
 same sentiments, should assume to get up here 
 and deny the fact. Then, and not till then, 
 did I allude to any expression of opinion of 
 the members of this Convention as a whole, 
 upon this subject. 
 
 The other gentleman from Winona (Mr. 
 Balcombe) is unnecessarily excited upon this 
 subject. Having been a little excited on a 
 former occasion upon this subject, he ought 
 to be a Httle forbearing now. The gentleman 
 will bear us, upon our side, witness, that we 
 have kept tolerably calm. We intended not to 
 be excited, and I do not think we have been, 
 nor have we made remarks which ought to 
 be complained of. I see no necessity for 
 excitement upon the other side. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. It is my habit, per- 
 haps, in discussing questions, to evince some 
 interest and excitement. And the gentleman 
 here refers to some excitement manifested 
 upon this subject upon another occasion, out- 
 side of the Convention proper. I made some 
 remarks then which I take back now, and 
 one in particular. Gentlemen know to what 
 I allude, and I need not repeat it. 
 
 But I will say this in reply to the gentle- 
 man's remarks and allusions, that I am some- 
 what excited when any man or class of men 
 attempt to engross into the platform of the 
 Republican party — and by the way I am 
 under the necessity of now referring to party 
 matters somewhat, because, under the cir. 
 cumstances, this Convention is, in one sense, 
 looked upon as a party Convention, and 
 the course they take will be taken as the 
 course of that party upon this subject — I say 
 I am excited when men attempt to insert a 
 plank in the Republican platform, which does 
 not belong to it. I am a little excited when 
 any class of individuals, with peculiar views 
 upon any subject, attempt to foist them upon 
 the Republican party. I should be a little 
 excited if some free trade Republican should 
 attempt to insert into the Republican plat- 
 form a free trade plank. I should be excited 
 should some gentleman attempt to introduce 
 some anti-Maine-law plank into the platform. 
 I should be excited if some gentleman in 
 favor^of the old United States banking system, 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thttesday, August 6. 
 
 365 
 
 should attempt to insert some plank upon 
 that subject. And so I am here. I say 
 where there is a matter of difference in the 
 party, that subject matter of difference should 
 be laid aside so far as party action is con- 
 cerned. I do not object to gentlemen advanc- 
 ing their peculiar views and ideas upon any 
 subject whatever, in dny place or at any time, 
 but I do insist upon it that we ought not to 
 crowd upon others our own ideas on subjects 
 upon which there is a matter of difference. 
 Suppose I am in favor of negro suffrage — as 
 I am — there are, perhaps, one-tenth of this 
 Convention who are opposed to it. I am in 
 favor of it, but think it proper that the ques- 
 tion of striking out the word "white" should 
 be left to the people. I say one-tenth of the 
 Convention may be opposed to allowing the 
 negro to vote. Now by striking out the 
 word " white" you give the negro the right 
 of suffrage, and thereby, perhaps, you compel 
 that tenth to oppose the Constitution which 
 they have been assisting to frame. Perhaps 
 when we go home to our constituents, we 
 may find a large nimiber of our RepubUcan 
 Mends who will feel under obhgation to op- 
 pose it upon that ground, and at the same 
 time we shall have the other party, who are 
 all opposed to negro suffrage, arrayed against 
 us. Then with one-tenth, one-twentieth, or 
 one-half of [our own party opposed to us, 
 what would become of our Constitution ? 
 
 The gentleman refers to the New England 
 Constitutions. I grant that those Constitu- 
 tions allow negroes to vote, with certain 
 restrictions. But I believe all the Constitu- 
 tions which have been framed of late years, 
 contain this word " white," and Republican 
 Conventions, which have had this matter 
 under consideration heretofore, have proposed 
 to do as we propose here — to leave the word 
 " white " in, and submit to the people the 
 question whether negroes shall have the right 
 to vote. The Iowa Convention, which framed 
 the Constitution which has just been voted 
 upon by the people of that State, left the 
 word " white " in the Constitution, and sub- 
 mitted to the people the question whether or 
 not it should be stricken out. And I may 
 say here, that a majority of the members of 
 that Convention -were Republicans. The 
 same course was pursued by the Constitu- 
 tional Convention of Michigan in 1850. The 
 
 vote of the people of the latter State decided 
 that the word "white" should remain in the 
 Constitution, and it does remain there to this 
 day. It is generally conceded, too, I believe, 
 that the same decision will be made by the 
 people of Iowa. The same question has been 
 submitted to the people of other Western 
 States, and the result has been the same. 
 
 Now what have we to expect in this Terri- 
 tory ? Our population is made up largely of 
 citizens from Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan, 
 Illinois, and other Western States. We are 
 naturally, then, to expect that there will be 
 such an opposition to giving the negro the 
 right of suffrage, that if we submit a Consti- 
 tution containing such a provision, it will be 
 defeated. Indeed, I actually believe we may 
 consider such a Constitution defeated in 
 advance. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would ask the gentle- 
 man one question. He has said a great deal 
 about engrafting a new principle upon the 
 Republican party. I confess I dislike to 
 hear so much said about the Republican 
 party in this Convention, and so much about 
 engrafting a new principle. But I ask the 
 gentleman, if we put in the word " white " 
 into the Constitution, do we engraft that upon 
 the RepubUcan party as a principle of the 
 party ? 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. K we leave the word 
 " white " where it is, and leave it to a vote of 
 the people to say whether it shall remain 
 there, it is giving the whole subject matter 
 into the hands of the people entirely. We 
 take neither one position or the other — nei- 
 ther in favor of it, nor in opposition to it 
 That is my ground. 
 
 As to the gentleman's first remark, as I 
 said before, the circumstances are such that 
 upon this question we are compelled to refer 
 to it in a party view. We are looked upon 
 as a party Convention, and our action here 
 will be construed as the action of the Repub- 
 lican party. Our position on this subject 
 will be considered as the position of the Re- 
 publican party. For that reason, I protest 
 against taking the position at all, and favor the 
 reference of the matter to the decision of the 
 people. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I understand the gentle- 
 man to say that by inserting the word, and 
 leaving it to a vote of the people, we do not 
 
866 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, August 6. 
 
 take sides either way. I respectfully ask the 
 gentleman if taking the word out, and then 
 leaving the question to the people, is taking 
 sides either way, more than the other course. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. It is under the cir- 
 cumstances. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. " 'Tis strange such differ- 
 " ence there should be, 'twixt tweedle-dum 
 " and tweedle-dee." 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. The gentleman upon my 
 left (Mr. North) alluded to me I suppose, in 
 some of his remarks, for I am the only person 
 in this Convention that answers to his allu- 
 sion. I diflfer with my friends upon both 
 sides of this question, slightly, 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Upon the fence, I suppose ? 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Not exactly. I am one of 
 those who are not so clear that this doctrine 
 of equal suffrage and equal rights to all men, 
 is not a plank in the Republican platform. 
 My recollection is that in the platform laid 
 down at Philadelphia the Declaration of In- 
 dependence was reaffirmed, and made a part 
 of that platform ; and that on sundry other 
 occasions, both in State and Territorial Con- 
 ventions we have adopted resolutions which 
 point to the idea of the political equality of all 
 men, I do not say that it is so. There is a 
 doubt in my mind and our friends upon the 
 one side are entitled to the benefits of that 
 doubt, if I say it is so ; and our friends upon 
 the other side are entitled to the benefit of 
 the doubt, if I say it is not. (Laughter.) So 
 you see I do not agree with either. They 
 perhaps are both right and both wrong, and 
 I do not pass judgment upon them. 
 
 I am individually in favor of progress, and 
 I say now that I vote as I do purely upon the 
 groimd of policy. Gentlemen may think that 
 is all wrong, but I think it is perfectly right. 
 I vote against striking out the word " white" 
 and upon that groimd solely. I say we are 
 part and parcel of the great party that has 
 great objects to attain, and one is the repres- 
 sing of the slave power, the preventing the 
 extension of slavery, and generally the bring- 
 ing the government back to the old platform 
 of freedom instead of slavery. Now I have 
 strong doubts whether the people of this Ter- 
 ritory are educated up to the mark of equal 
 rights, so as to endorse the doctrine of negro 
 suffrage. I want this Constitution adopted, 
 and I want two repretentativcs in the House, 
 
 and two senators upon the floor of the Sen- 
 ate from the State of Minnesota. Now believ- 
 ing that the people are not sufficiently educa- 
 ted up to the mark of adopting a Constitution 
 which does recognize negro suffrage, I am not 
 ready now to put in such a provision, and 
 thereby risk the loss of all the benefits which 
 may arise from its adoption. To get a minor 
 good you lose a greater. "We cannot get all ; 
 and therefore, upon the principle that I prefer a 
 quarter of a loaf to no loaf at all, I shall vote 
 in favor of retaining the word proposed to be 
 stricken out. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS moved (at five o'clock and 
 thirty minutes) that the Convention adjourn. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. HARDING moved the previous ques- 
 tion on the amendment. 
 
 The previous question was seconded and 
 the main question ordered to be put. 
 
 Mr. BATES demanded the yeas and nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered and the 
 question being put, it was decided in the neg- 
 ative, yeas 17, nays 34, as follows : 
 
 Yeas. — Messrs. Baldwin, Bates, Cleghorn, Col- 
 burn, Davis, Gerrish, Haj'den, Holley, Mantor, 
 Messer, North, Phelps, Perkins, Putnam, Peck- 
 ham, Secombe and Sheldon. — 17. 
 
 Nays. — Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Balcombe, 
 Bartholomew, Butler, Coggswell, Cedcrstam, Du- 
 ley Dickerson, Eschlie, Foster, Folsom, Galbraith, 
 Harding, Hanson, King, Kemp, Lyle, Lowe, Mc- 
 Cann, McKune, McClure, Morgan, Mills, Murphy, 
 Bobbins, Russell, Stannard, Smith, Thompson, 
 Vaughn, Walker, Watson and Wilson. — 34. 
 
 So the Convention refused to strike out the 
 word "white." 
 
 Mr. FOSTER offered the following substi- 
 tute for section one : 
 
 "Sec. 1. Every white male person of the age 
 of twenty-one years and upwards, (excepting per- 
 sons under guardianship, non combos mentis, or 
 insane,) belonging to either of the following class- 
 es, who shall have resided in the State for six 
 months, and in the town, ward, or precinct, in 
 which may he ofier to vote, for ten days next pre- 
 ceding any election, shall be deemed a Qualified 
 elector at such election, viz : 
 
 " First — Citizens of the United States ; 
 
 " Second. — Every person of foreign birth, who 
 shall exhibit a certificate from a proper court of 
 record, that he has declared his intention to be- 
 come a citizen of the United States, conformably 
 to the laws of the United States. 
 
 "Third. — Civilized persons' of Indian descent, 
 not members of any tribe." 
 
 On motion of Mr. KING, adjourned. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, August 7. 
 
 367 
 
 TWENTY-THIRD DAY. 
 
 Fridat, August Tth, 1857. 
 The Convention met at 9 o'clock, a. m. 
 The journal of yesterday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 EQUAL SUFFBAGE. 
 
 Mr. CCGGSWELL offered the Mowing 
 resolution : 
 
 " Bfsolted, That there shall be submitted to the 
 qualified roters of this Territory, at the time this 
 Constitution is submitted to them for their ratifica- 
 tion or rejection, the following proposition ; and if 
 it shall receive a majority of all the rotes cast both 
 for and against it, then it shall become a part and 
 portion of the Constitution, otherwise it shall be 
 null and void. Proposition First : Every male 
 person, of either mixed or full African or negro 
 blood of the age of twenty-one years and upwards, 
 and who shall have resided in this State six months 
 next preceding any election, and in the town, 
 precinct or ward in which he claims the right to 
 vote, ten days next preceding the same, shall be 
 deemed a qualified elector, and shall have the right 
 to vote for all officers which may be elected by the 
 people. 
 
 Mr. C. said : My object in offering that 
 resolution, is to ascertain if it is the wish, de- 
 sire and intention of the Convention to have 
 a proposition of that character submitted — 
 and submitted as a separate proposition. 
 During the course of the remarks made yes- 
 terday in regard to the rights of voters to 
 vote at the different elections, it was intimated 
 that a proposition of that character should 
 come from the committee on the Schedule, 
 and be made a part and parcel of the Sched- 
 ule. I offer the resolution for the purpose of 
 ascertaining the wish of the Convention, in 
 that respect, for the reason that I am a mem- 
 ber of diat committee, and am exceedingly 
 anxious to know something about what the 
 duties of that committee are, and to enter, to 
 a certain extent, upon their discharge. 
 
 Mr. "WILSON. Permit me to explain. I 
 referred yesterday to the matter spdcen of by 
 the gentleman from Steele county, and if I 
 named the committee upon the Schedule, it 
 was a mistake. I intended the committee on 
 the Elective Franchise. I stated that the 
 Chairman of that committee had, at that time, 
 a proposition of that kind in his hands. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would inquire if the gen- 
 tleman proposes that the committee on the 
 Elective Franchise shall insert that as a sep- 
 
 arate article, or make a proposition to this 
 Convention to be passed upon ? 
 
 Mr. WILSON. In some States the prop- 
 ositicKi has been contained in the Schedule, 
 and in others it has been submitted as a sep- 
 arate proposition. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. It should be either incor- 
 porated in the article on the Elective Fran- 
 chise, or in the schedule — one or the other. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The resolution having 
 given rise to discussion, will lie over imder 
 the rule, until to-morrow . 
 
 Mr. CEDERSTAM, from the committee oo. 
 the Elective Franchise, made the following 
 supplemental report, which was read a first 
 and second time and laid on the table to be 
 printed, viz : 
 
 "At the same election that this Constitution is 
 submitted to the people for its adoption or rejec- 
 tion a proposition to amend the same by striking 
 out the word * white' from Article — , Sec. 1, on the 
 ' Right of Suftrage,' shall be separately submitted 
 to the electors of this State for adoption or rejec- 
 tion in manner following : A separate ballot may 
 be given by every person having a right to vote at 
 said election, to be deposited in a separate box ; 
 and those given for the adoption of such prorposi- 
 tion shall have the words, ' Shall the word ' white' 
 'be stricken out of the Article — , Sec. 1, on the 
 Right of Suffrage ? — Yes.' And those given 
 against the proposition shall have the words, 
 * Shall the word ' white' be stricken out of Article 
 ' — , Sec. 1, on the Right of Suffrage ?— No.' And 
 if, at said election, the number of ballots cast in 
 favor of said proposition shall be a majority of all 
 those cast on that subject, the said word ' white' 
 shall be stricken from said Article and be no part 
 thereof." 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I move that that re- 
 port be referred to the committee upon the 
 Schedule, with instructions to insert a propo- 
 sition, embracing the substance of that re- 
 port, in their report upon the Schedule. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I am not certain that the 
 Schedule is the proper place for such a propo- 
 sition. I have the impression that that ques- 
 tion has been usually submitted in a separate 
 article. I would ftirther remark, that the 
 Schedule is a part of the Constitution itself, 
 and forever remains a part of the Constitu- 
 tion. I suppose that if this proposition is not 
 accepted by the people, it will not be in the 
 Constitution at all, and should not subse- 
 quently appear there. If it goes into the 
 Schedule, it must necessarily remain in the 
 Constitution. 
 
 I • 
 
868 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, August 7. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I would simply re- 
 mark, that the Schedule relates to matters 
 connected with our transition State, and re- 
 mains permanently in the Constitution ; but 
 after the first year most, if not all, of the 
 Schedule is a dead letter. For instance, the 
 first thing in a Schedule usually is, that all 
 laws which exist at the time of the adoption 
 of the Constitution, shall still exist until 
 changed or amended under the Constitution. 
 Now the Schedule is usually superceded the 
 first year. The Schedule mostly is composed 
 of matter, pertaining to getting the machinery 
 of the Constitution into operation. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I think the gentleman from 
 Hennepin county (Mr. Morgan,) is in error 
 in regard to the permanent character of the 
 Schedule. It is true that all matters that are 
 of a temporary character, are put in the 
 Schedule. But there are matters there which 
 may be permanent for some time. It con- 
 tains the first apportionment under the Con- 
 stitution ; it prescribes the judicial districts ; 
 and it contains other matters of that kind. 
 But at the same time, I believe it would be 
 better to submit this question in a separate 
 article, and that the proper way would be to 
 refer it to the committee on Miscellaneous 
 Provisions, of which the gentleman from Scott 
 county (Mr. Galbraith,) is Chairman. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I care not what dis- 
 position is made of it. I notice that in some 
 Constitutions, it is placed in the Schedule, 
 while in others it is contained in other parts 
 of the Constitution. Wherever it is, it must 
 be in the Constitution, and it is not material 
 with me. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the report will lie 
 over until we get through the report upon 
 which the Convention is now at work. For 
 one, I prefer to see this proposition in this 
 very article on the Elective Franchise. It is 
 a matter which pertains strictly to that sub- 
 ject ; and I prefer, not only that it be intro- 
 duced as a proviso, but that it should forever 
 remain in the Constitution, that it may be 
 seen that although the word " white" be in- 
 serted in the Constitution, yet that it was in- 
 serted with the express proviso that the peo- 
 ple should, by a popular vote, determine 
 whether it should remain or not. At the 
 proper time, I shall move that such a proviso 
 be inserted as an amendment to section one. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. As this matter has 
 given rise to debate, I suppose it will lie over 
 until to-morrow under the rule. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It will. 
 
 ELECTIVE FRANCHISE. 
 
 The Convention resumed the consideration 
 of the report of the committee on the Elective 
 Franchise — the pending question being on the 
 substitute oflfered yesterday by Mr. Foster. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I move to amend section 
 one by striking out the words, " every white 
 "male inhabitant," and insert in lieu thereof, 
 " every citizen of the United States." 
 
 The PRESIDENT. That is the same 
 amendment which was oflfered yesterday and 
 considered at length. The Chair is of opinion 
 that it is out of order now. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. Does the Chair pretend 
 to rule that a motion to strike out and insert, 
 is to be precluded by a motion simply to 
 strike out ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The amendment is 
 substantially the one oflfered yesterday by 
 the gentleman from Rice county, (Mr. 
 
 NORTU.) 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. Will the Chair answer me 
 the question whether a motion to strike out 
 precludes a motion to strike out and insert ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chau- would 
 state that as a general rule, where an amend- 
 ment has been proposed and voted down, 
 another substantially the same is out of order. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. This motion is not sunply 
 to strike out, but a motion to strike out and 
 insert something which entirely qualifies the 
 sense of the section. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I think my amendment 
 is, according to parliamentary rules, strictly 
 in order, and if the Chair decide otherwise 
 I shall appeal from the decision of the 
 Chair. 
 
 Mr. KING. Rule twenty-ninth says : 
 
 "A motion to strike out and insert shall be 
 deemed indivisible ; but a resolution to strike out 
 being lost, shall neither preclude amendment, nor 
 a motion to strike out and insert." 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair is aware of 
 that rule, and also of another rule laid down 
 in Jefferson's Manual, which asserts the piin- 
 ciple that where a proposition is oflfered simi- 
 lar to a*former one, it is not in order. Still if 
 it is the wish of the Convention to go into a 
 discussion of this question again, the Chair is 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, Acgcst 7. 
 
 369 
 
 willing to, and will waive all his objections to 
 that course. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I want to understand 
 whether the Chair decides that I am in order 
 or not ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair withdraws 
 all objections. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I wished to know that 
 &ct, because I believe in adhering to parlia- 
 mentary usage. 
 
 I have oflfered the amendment because I 
 deem it my right, privilege and duty to sub- 
 mit a few remarks upon this question. If I 
 did not feel thus, I should certainly hold my 
 peace. Being afflicted with a disorder which 
 makes it painful for me to speak, I shotild 
 refrain from doing so, did I not feel called 
 upon to that extent, as to overtook my physi- 
 cal weakness. I offer th« amendment because 
 I am opposed to that first section as it was re- 
 ported from the committees. I offer it because 
 I am in favor of equal suffrage. I am aware 
 that I am to be told that such an amendment 
 will bring us into conflict with the decision of 
 the Supreme Court of the United States. I 
 I care nothing in regard to that, either one 
 way or the other. It is said that inasmuch 
 as the Supreme Court have decided against 
 the claims of a cer^fiin class of persons to be 
 citizens, that they could have no chance of 
 equal suffrage, even though such an amend- 
 ment should be adopted. Be that as it may, 
 the adoption of it wiU put that matter in no 
 worse condition than it would be under the 
 section as it now stands. I trust the time 
 will come when the people of these United 
 States \vill change the decision of the Supreme 
 Court in that respect ; when they wiU place 
 upon the bench of that court men who will 
 not be under the dictation of the slave poiver ; 
 K, then, this amendment can make that 
 matter no worse, I am in favor of adopt- 
 ing it. 
 
 But, sir, there are those here who have 
 labored hard to show the expediency of leav- 
 ing this first section just as it is. Now, sr, 
 while I am willing to award to those who are 
 opposed to me in opinion upon this point, the 
 same honesty which I claim for myself, I am 
 sorry that I am forced to believe that men 
 claiming to be Republicans will adopt the 
 principle of the old adage that we are bound 
 to choose between two evils. I admit that in 
 47 
 
 a philosophic point of view it is COTtect, but 
 morally I deny that it is. I repudiate the 
 idea, and I detest the doctrine. Sir, I recog- 
 nize a higher law. I believe the higher law is 
 the basis of all just legislation ; that it is the 
 standard by which to try ihe acts and decis- 
 ions of men ; and that so far from binding us 
 to a choice between two evils, commands us 
 to shun even the appearance of evil. I believe 
 that this verj' doctrine of expediency is the 
 doctrine which will ruin us as a Republican 
 party in this Territory. Why, sir, my con- 
 stituents are deeply aflBicted to learn that 
 such a state of things exist here. Men who 
 have but recently left the pro-slaverj' ranks, 
 have tmned because we were taking a stand 
 for the right. But they now say that if such 
 a milk-and-water Constitution is fimned, they 
 leave us. I say, therefore, that in this point 
 of view, it is wrong for us to keep that word 
 in our Constitution, and it wiU be our ruin. 
 
 But one gentleman told us, that it was 
 inexpedient to take the course I propose, in 
 view or the great contest which is going on 
 in this nation. Now, sir, in that very view . 
 I believe it is demanded of us to stand up 
 for the right, and maintain the truth, and to 
 yield to no expediency which shaU sacrifice 
 the right, though we may be delayed thereby 
 somewhat, in attaining ovu- ends. It is the 
 only way to insiure ultimate success. AVe 
 can aU see what compromises have done for 
 this nation,'and what the doctrine of expedi- 
 ency has done for political parties. It sank 
 the old Whig party beycmd the reach of res- 
 urrection, and it will sweep us into oblivion if 
 we pursue the same course. 
 
 Another gentleman has told us that he was 
 in fiivor of the first section as a matter of 
 justice; that he believed it to be right. So 
 fer as that is concerned, there is consistency. 
 I say if a man believes himself to be right, 
 let him maintain his principles though the 
 Heavens fall. But let us examine the consis- 
 tency of the gentleman a little ferther. He 
 told us that the arguments of those who were 
 in favor of equal suffrage proved to much. 
 Let us see. He has told us that equal suf- 
 frage necessarily brings the black man to a 
 social equality, and then he went on to 
 describe that social equality by saying that it 
 would be bringing the black man into our 
 houses, and marry him to our daughters. 
 
870 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fmday, August 7. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I hope the gentleman 
 will not misrepresent me. I did not say any 
 such thing at all; That is not the language I 
 used, nor did I convey that idea. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. Did not the gentleman 
 express that sentiment ? 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I did not. I said it 
 was useless to attempt to give a man the elec- 
 tive franchise, and not equalize him socially. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. Did not the gentleman 
 define social equality as the marrying the 
 negroes to our own daughters ? 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. That I did say. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I did not wish to misrep- 
 resent the gentleman in any respect. Now, 
 sir, I deny that raising any class to an equality 
 of suffrage brings them to such a social 
 equality as that. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Should it not ? 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. No, sir, I say empha- 
 tically. Now the Almighty has put a dififer- 
 ence between the races in complexion. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I suggest, " All men 
 "are bom free and equal." Does that mean 
 equal in right of suffrage ? When you take 
 one position, why do not you take it ui aU its 
 meaning? 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. They are born equal, 
 that is with equal privilege to liberty, life 
 and the pursuit of happiness ; and not the 
 right to break over what the Almighty has 
 done. But now as to the gentleman's doc- 
 trine of social equality. After he had passed 
 through the greater part of his speech, he 
 urged the importance of bringing that class 
 up to to a social equality, and then that they 
 would be prepared for equal suffrage. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I said it was the duty 
 of gentleman who urged equal suffrage, 
 to do that ; and I said it was impossible to 
 bring them up to that 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. This difference of social 
 equality is the very thing which is producing 
 the amalgamation of the races; and if we 
 wish to prevent that, we should bring them 
 up to their equal rights. Why is it that 
 amalgamation is now going on as it is? It is 
 because colored persons have no right to 
 resist the nefarious practices of the most 
 brutal white man. Under the operation of 
 that system, fathers are yearly selling their 
 own offspring. But raise colored persons to 
 
 their God-given rights and it will prevent the 
 further amalgamation of the races. 
 
 But, sir, I am in favor of that amendment, 
 in the second place, because I am opposed to 
 the substitute offered by the gentleman from 
 Dakota, and opposed to it upon principle. I 
 believe it to be inexpedient, and the worst 
 course we could take. There has been much 
 said here in regard to equal rights and equal 
 suffrage contained in the Declaration of Inde- 
 pendence, and much has been said here in 
 regard to the Republican party having but 
 one plank. It has been said that old issues 
 have become obsolete, that there is but one 
 plank, and that, opposition to the extension 
 of slavery. Now, sir, I am prepared to say 
 that no Convention, either State or National, 
 has been held since the Republican party 
 came into existence, where any platform has 
 been adopted, but what has incorporated into 
 that platform the principles contained in the 
 Declaration of Independence. And why did 
 not the question of equal suffrage come up ? 
 Because it was not demanded. But I defy- 
 any man to successfully deny the assertion, 
 when I say that the doctrine of equal suffrage 
 is contained in the Declaration of Indepen- 
 dence. Men may refer to it as a side issue 
 as much as they please, yet it stands there, 
 and the Repubhcan party of this nation see it 
 there. Why do we venerate our fathers ? Is 
 it because they rejected those principles? 
 No, but because they stood by them, declared 
 them to the world and maintained them 
 against the odds with M'hich they had to con- 
 tend at the risk of their own lives. Now, 
 sir, when we repudiate the doctrine contained 
 in the Declaration of Independence, we ren- 
 der ourselves unworthy of our noble sires. 
 Where are we to look for the origin of these 
 self-evident truths ? Back to the principles 
 of eternal justice ; and all that man has said 
 or done, or can say or do, can never change 
 them. They remain the same, and will when 
 our heads are laid beneath the clods of the 
 valley. 
 
 I am opposed then to the course which is 
 proposed to be taken, because I believe it is 
 wrong ; and to show that it is wrong I step 
 back to the teachings of him who spake as 
 never man spake ; I step back to him who 
 taught with authority, and not as the scribes. 
 And he said •' Whatever ye would that men 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION;DEBATES— Fbidat, August 7. 
 
 871 
 
 " should do to'you, do you even so to them, 
 " for this is the law and the profits." Now 
 men means all mankind. Now, sir, until we 
 are ready to deprive ourselves of those priv- 
 ileges, we are wrong in depriving our fellow 
 man of them, although he has a sable skin. 
 And that great Teacher, when asked what 
 was the first and great commandment in the 
 law, answered: "Thou shalt love the Lord 
 "thy Grod with all thy heart, might, mind and 
 " strength ; that is the first commandment ; 
 " and the second is like imto^it ; Thou shalt 
 "love thy neighbor as thyself; upon these 
 " hang all the law and the prophets." Now all 
 the principles of the Bible, as revealed to man 
 for our happiness here and hereafter, are op- 
 posed to the idea which gentlemen advance, 
 I am not ashamed to-day, to say that I 
 believe in such a religion, and that I intend 
 here, and always, to maintain and carry 
 out its principles. I feel in this that I have 
 every thing on my side. And I tell you, as 
 a matter of righteousness, that it is demanded 
 of us to oppose such principles as have been 
 advanced here. 
 
 But, sir, I wish here to say, before I re- 
 sume my seat, that I have chosen this beau- 
 tiful West for my home. Here I expect that 
 the dust of my body will in the future mingle 
 in the dust of Minnesota. I have sought it 
 too as the home for my children. And I 
 expect after I am dead that they will inherit 
 and enjoy the blessings or bear the evils that 
 may be brought upon them by the legislation 
 which shall be had here and elsewhere. Now 
 I ask for myself equal rights, and I ask equal 
 rights for my children, and I ask, for the gen- 
 erations which shall come after us, the same 
 privileges which I ask for my children. 
 
 This IS a matter which should not be lightly 
 passed over. It is a matter which will tell 
 for weal or woe on the generations which 
 shall come after us. When we shall have 
 passed fix)m earth away, the influences which 
 we exercise even here, may tell to the weal or 
 woe of those then living. It is something 
 which we cannot look out of countenance. 
 It is something which we have got to meet, 
 and our constituents demand that we shall 
 stand up for the right. The rising genera- 
 tion demands it of us ; yea, the God that rules 
 in the armies of the nations demands it 
 of us. 
 
 Mr.;PEKKINS. As I had not yesterday 
 
 an opportunity to^explainlmy position, I pro- 
 pose now to say a word in defence of the 
 course I have taken and expect to take. It 
 was pretty freely charged yesterday that we 
 were afi^d to leave this question to the peo- 
 ple. I wish it distinctly understood that I 
 have no such fear. I want it understood fur- 
 ther, that I am in &vor of this amendment 
 both upon principle and policy. And in what 
 I say I do not imdertake to combat the idea 
 that a prejudice exists against the negro race, 
 or that it exists to a greater extent in the 
 northern portion of the United States than in 
 any other country on the civilized globe. And 
 gentlemen tell us with a great deal of as- 
 surance that it is an inborn and natviral pre- 
 judice — a prejudice against color; a prejudice, 
 native to thehimian heart. Well I know that 
 it is very deep seated, and at first blush it 
 would appear, that they are right in the as- 
 sertion. But I deny that it is bom in the 
 heart of any man. This truth is illustrated 
 by the manner in which children of both 
 races, play together in the earlier years of in- 
 fency. This prejudice is not developed until 
 they are taught that there is a social inequal- 
 ity. Still I am willing to take things as they 
 exist, and I know that this prejudice cannot 
 be very well eradicated at the present time. 
 I know it is difficult to get around it, and I 
 am disposed myself to imbibing more or less 
 of that feeling. I do not pretend that I should 
 like to ask a negro into my family, and adopt 
 him as a brother, but I know, after all, that 
 the prejudice which I do entertain is a most 
 miserable and contemptible thing, and ought 
 to have no existence in my bosom. And 
 when I come to vote upon any great ques- 
 tion of humanity, in which that class are in- 
 terested, I do not mean to be governed by 
 those feelings. 
 
 The people are not prepared for equal suf- 
 fi:^ge, and I apprehend if they are not pre- 
 pared for it at this time, they never well be pre- 
 pared for it, unless those who assume to be 
 the leaders of the multitude prepare them. 
 Somebody has to take the step in advance. I 
 think our steps in that direction have retro- 
 graded very much since the formation of the 
 Constitution of the United States, and the 
 Constitutions of Vermont, Massachusetts and 
 New Hampshire. I think then the people 
 
373 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, ^Iugust 7. 
 
 were prepared for equal suffrage. Well if they 
 were prepared for it then, why not now ? It 
 is because those who assume to be the leaders 
 of the multitude are demagogues, and have 
 introduced a species of demagoguism which is 
 contemptible. Every year the public senti- 
 ment is growing more and more vitiated in 
 regard to this matter. Now I do not like to 
 hear gentlemen say that the public mind is 
 not prepared now, when no effort has been 
 made by those gentlemen to reform and puri- 
 fy the public sentiment in regard to this mat- 
 ter. I say the public mind is as well prepared 
 now as it ever has been unless vitiated by 
 this species of demagoguism which is incorpo- 
 rated into all the Constitutions which have 
 lately been framed. Let us take a step in 
 advance, and let us not say that the people of 
 Minnesota are not prepared for it, and that 
 they have retrograded, and are not willing to 
 come up to the support of the Declaration of 
 Independence. If they are not prepared, let 
 us take a step to educate them. I do not as- 
 sume however that they are not prepared. I 
 say let every member of this Convention go 
 home to his constituents and talk this matter 
 over, not as demagogues, but in the sincerity 
 of their hearts, and I tell you that the peo- 
 ple will Usten to you, and will see the reason- 
 ableness of this thing. But as long as we 
 hold back and are not willing to take the strife 
 in advance, you may be pretty sure that the 
 people will not advance. 
 
 But we were told yesterday that our argu- 
 ments proved too much, because the Declara- 
 tion of Independence included women as well 
 as men, and that in order to be consistent we 
 should also incorporate into the Constitution a 
 clause granting the right of suffrage to women. 
 Now I am not inclined to be drawn into a dis- 
 cussion of the subject of women's rights, as 
 that is not legitimately before the Convention. 
 But I think I might answer the question in 
 brief, and I will take his own argument against 
 granting equal suffrage to the African race. 
 The Almighty has made a distinetion between 
 man and woman, which it will be very diffi- 
 cult, if not impossible to eradicate. Now if 
 it is an argument to be thrown into our faces, 
 when we talk about equal suffrage, that the 
 Almighty has made a distinction, I hope gen- 
 tlemen will not offer that argument again un- 
 less they can show by some process of logic, 
 
 that, tf a distinction has been made, it is a 
 justification for a superior race subjecting and 
 submitting an inferior one. 
 
 Now as a matter of principle, I am in favor 
 of equal suffrage. I am in favor of it also, 
 from the fact that when I belong to a party, 
 and am associated with that party in opposition 
 to another, I always want a principle to fight 
 for. I do not want to fight for a technicality, 
 a shadow, a straw. Gentlemen well asked, yes- 
 terday, what we were fighting for in this Con- 
 vention ; what the contest in the late canvass 
 Was about, and what distinction there was be- 
 tween the Democratic and the Republican par- 
 ties, so far as State politics were concerned. 
 What was the answer ? Instead of meeting 
 the question fairly, and stating what the dif- 
 ference was, gentlemen got up and said, we 
 ignore the question of woman's rights ; we 
 ignore the question of temperance ; we ig- 
 nore the question of suffrage. That was the 
 response made every time to the question. 
 Well why were gentlemen disposed to dodge 
 that question ? I ask gentlemen to point out 
 any distinction between the Republican and 
 the Democratic parties, so far as the late can- 
 vass was concerned. Where, in the name of 
 Heaven, is the difference between the two? 
 So far as anything I can see, I would just as 
 soon be a Democrat as a Republican — that is, 
 so far as State politics are concerned. 
 
 We had a very hotly contested election. 
 At first, it was supposed that the Democrats 
 had won the victory, but afterwards, as the 
 news from Southern Minnesota came in, it 
 was discovered that she had sent an almost 
 unbroken phalanx of Republicans to this Con- 
 vention ; and what rejoicing there was all over 
 the country ! What was that rejoicing for V 
 Why, that they had sent Republicans instead 
 of Democrats to this Convention. That was 
 all the difference between the two. Gentle- 
 men deny that the suffrage question had any- 
 thing whatever to do with it. They deny it, 
 and have the effrontery to tell us — it looks to 
 me like effrontery— that the question of equal 
 suffrage never was a principle of the Republican 
 party, and that that party had only one idea 
 and that was the restriction of slavery, and 
 the keeping it out of the Territories. 
 
 Now, in the late canvass, we sent delegates 
 here to frame a Constitution for the State of 
 Minnesota. We did not send delegates here 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fridat, August 7. 
 
 378 
 
 to elect United States Senators or represen- 
 tatives to Congress, and the election, if it had 
 any, had a very remote connection with na- 
 national politics. We came up here and con- 
 sidered it of great importance, that vre should 
 have the control of tliis Convention. We 
 caucussed about it before the assembling Of 
 the Convention. It was so all important that 
 we should have the control of this Conven- 
 tion — as we certainly were entitled to it — 
 that we met in the coimcil chamber, and it is 
 undeniable, that there we stayed until the 
 next morning, and in the morning, when the 
 doors were opened we came in here. Although 
 we received a proposition from the Democratic 
 party not to organize until twelve o'clock, m., 
 yet we were not caught by any lures, and 
 keeping it in mind that it was very important 
 that we should have the control of this Con- 
 " ntion, we stayed here, and by vigilance and 
 Qance only, we got the control. And this 
 •mphatically the Republican Convention, or 
 s considered by the country at large as a 
 nubhcan Convention. I do not know a 
 ' in the Convention who would acknowl- 
 'liraself a Democrat. 
 ' vhat was all this fuss for ? Did we 
 ' .0 elect United States Senators or 
 entatives to Congress ? Not at all. I 
 ,^yose we wished to form a Constitution 
 which should be Republican in its character, 
 and we claimed that there was a distinction 
 between us and the Democratic party. And 
 now at this late hoiu*, when gentlemen are 
 called upon to point out the difference, they 
 dodge the question, and no attempt whatever 
 is made to answer it. And I apprehend that 
 no gentleman can point out the distinction. 
 They say we have incorporated into our 
 creed a portion of the Declaration of Inde- 
 pendence. Very good. So have the Demo- 
 crats. We say we are grateful to God for 
 our civil and religious liberties. I have no 
 doubt the Democrats will mouth that quite as 
 lightly as we have done it. Are we any 
 ahead of the Democrats in that respect? 
 Not a whit. I have no doubt the Democrats 
 will say that " all men are bom equally free 
 " and independent ; " because it is specious. 
 They will say that " they are entitled to cer- 
 " tain inalienable rights, among which are life, 
 " liberty and the pursuit of happiness," and 
 that " to secure these rights governments are 
 
 "instituted among men, deriving their just 
 '• powers from the consent of the governed." 
 I would here inquire if that is a plank in the 
 Republican platform — that to seciure these 
 rights governments are instituted among men, 
 deriving their just powers from the consent 
 of the governed ? Does that squint towards 
 imiversal suffrage ? Gentlemen say the Dec- 
 laration of Indepepdence has nothing to do 
 with it. What does that clause look like. 
 It looks to me as if it meant that all those 
 bom and living under the government of the 
 United States, and imder the control of it« 
 laws should have a hand in making those 
 laws. It looks like Republicanism. Now 
 who will say, after reading that clause taken 
 from the Declaration of Independence, that it 
 has nothing to do with the question of suf- 
 frage, and is not a principle in the Republican 
 platform ? 
 
 Well, I say I have no doubt the Democrats 
 will mouth those things just as strongly as 
 we do. There is also another ^clause which 
 they will incorporate into their Constitution, 
 for there Ls not a Constitution but what con- 
 tains it. " There shall be no slavery or in- 
 " volimtary servitude in this State, except for 
 " punishment of crime, Jbc." Does any gen- 
 tleman doubt that the Democrats will have 
 that clause in their Bill of Rights ? Certainly 
 not. 
 
 Well then what is the distinction ; where is 
 the difference between the two Constitutions ? 
 Gentlemen cannot point out any difference at 
 all, and so far as they can see, it is just as 
 well so far as the Constitution is concemed, 
 and so far as the party in this Territory is 
 concemed, in reference to State poUtics, to be 
 a Democrat as a Republican. Now, I thought 
 when I was passing through the canvass that 
 there was some principle at stake. But I am 
 informed by those who are good Republicans 
 that there is no principle at stake; or if there 
 is, nobody can tell what it is. If that is so 
 I am in favor of taking one step in advance 
 of the Democratic party before our Constitu- 
 tion is sent out to the Republicans of Minne- 
 sota. What will the Republicans of Minne- 
 sota care about technicalities, or the rules of 
 this Convention, or Jefferson's Manual ? Do 
 you suppose they will stop to investigate par- 
 liamentary rules to see whether the Republi- 
 cans did actually get the control of the Con- 
 
374 
 
 : MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, August 7. 
 
 vention or not, or whether it is really the Re- 
 publican Convention or not ? The sentiment 
 of the Territory will be divided, and many 
 Repubhcans will tell you that they are doubt- 
 ful and that they do not know whether the 
 Democrats or Republicans are right, and fur- 
 thermore they will tell you they do not care. 
 Now how are you going before the Republi- 
 cans of the Territory, if you have not princi- 
 ples to discuss ? All you have to lean upon 
 is parliamentary law. What are you going 
 to tell them ? Suppose the Democrats get all 
 these Republican clauses into their Constitu- 
 tion, and make as good a judiciary and exec- 
 utive department as you do, how are you 
 going to advocate your Constitution above 
 theirs, and show the people that it is, in any 
 respect more Republican than the other ? It 
 seems to me that my mouth would be closed, 
 and that I should have no principle whatever 
 to rest upon. Now if I am identified with 
 any party whatever, I want a principle to 
 fight upon, and when I go before the people, 
 I want to show them that there is a principle 
 at stake. But the way this Convention pro- 
 poses to arrange the matter, there is no prin- 
 ciple whatever, and it will be the ruin of the 
 Republican party in Minnesota. 
 
 M. GALBRAITH. I had thought that af- 
 ter a question had been once introduced into 
 this body, and full privilege given for discuss- 
 ing it, that would end the matter. But I am 
 mistaken, and some of the very gentlemen 
 who have fired this bomb-shell upon us to- 
 day, have heretofore advocated that very iden- 
 tical doctrine ; and why bring up the same 
 question again after it has been once decided 
 by a two-third vote of the members of this 
 Convention ? But it has been sprung upon 
 ug, and I wish not to go into an argument 
 upon it, but only to say that the persistent 
 misrepresentation of men's views, comes with 
 a very ill grace from those who defend the 
 absolute right as the highest expediency. 
 When a man says anything upon this floor, 
 and says it in good faith, it should be taken 
 for granted, by others, that he does not say 
 it as a demagogue and that he is lying. Gen- 
 tlemen should be careful how they throw out 
 these misrepresentations, either by innuendo 
 or otherwise. The gentleman who has spoken 
 here to-day so freely about equal rights — ab- 
 solute and inalienable rights — has thrown out 
 
 by innuendo, that in my few remarks, yes- 
 terday, I advocated woman's rights, and then 
 he built up a man of straw that he might 
 knock it down. lie represents me as advo- 
 cating woman's right to vote. I submit that 
 I advocated no such thing. I put it upon 
 the record that I did not. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. AUow me to explain. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I hope you will. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I did not represent the 
 gentleman as advocating woman's rights, and 
 denied being an advocate of them myself. I 
 only used the gentleman's argument, against 
 the negro race, and turned it against a wo- 
 man's right to vote. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. The argument I used 
 was this : that there was a distinction be- 
 tween the white and the black man — a dis- 
 tinction impressed by nature — and that if 
 such distinction should make no difierence 
 between the rights or privileges of persons, 
 then the gentlemen, to be consistent with 
 themselves, should bestow the right of suf- 
 frage upon women. The exact language of 
 the Declaration of Independence is, " All men 
 are created equal." Then there is another 
 principle in that same Declaration, and that 
 is, that taxation and representation are inscp 
 arable. That was the hinge upon which the 
 whole revolution turned. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. Go on a little further. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. How far? 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. And that they "are en- 
 " dowed by their Creator with certain inalien- 
 " able rights, &c." 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Upon those two prin- 
 ciples it is advocated here, that all men should 
 vote. Upon those grounds is universal suf- 
 fi-age advocated, and no other. Because all 
 men are created equal, and because, in a gov- 
 enmient, taxation and representation go to- 
 gether, it is taken as a self-evident proposition 
 that every person who is created, and every 
 person who pays taxes, should have a voice 
 in the government. Now no man, who can 
 see the consequences of an argument, but 
 must say that those gentlemen are forced to 
 admit, from their own premises, that a woman 
 must also vote. The conclusion is irresisti- 
 ble, and more irresistible from the fact that 
 all females in the land are liable to pay taxes 
 to the government for their property. Now 
 I wish gentlemen to be consistent, and they 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fkidat, August 7. 
 
 375 
 
 who advocate universal suflFrage, relying upon 
 the Declaration of Independence, must include 
 the whole population of the country without 
 distinction of color or sex — for to such a re- 
 sult does their argument lead them. They 
 talk to us about advocating a distinction be- 
 tween the races. It is not the color particu- 
 larly that we talk abo.ut. There is a distinc- 
 tion between the races as fixed as the eternal 
 hills, and gentlemen may talk as much as they 
 please, there stands the palpable fact before 
 their eyes. It is as palpable as the noon day 
 sun. I appeal to gentlemen if it is not so ? 
 But we create public sentiment, say gentle- 
 men. We create public sentiment upon this 
 subject ! As well, we go to work and turn 
 the Niagara to flow its mighty waters up- 
 wards ! Talk of creating public sentiment ! 
 We may endeavor to correct that sentiment, 
 if possible. If those gentlemen who wish 
 this sentiment corrected, can correct it, well 
 and good. 
 
 The arguments gentlemen have used are 
 such that to be consistent, they should, as a 
 matter of course, be the advocates of wo- 
 man's rights. I said then, and I say now, I 
 should vote against this amendment^ for the 
 good reason that I believe that the African, as a 
 class, are not qualified to be voters. I do so 
 honestly and fearlessly. 
 
 But say gentlemen, if the Democrats make 
 a Constitution just like ours, there will be no 
 distinction between the parties. I make no 
 stump speech in this Convention about this 
 being a Repubhcan or a Democratic Constitu- 
 tion. In regard to the fundamental laws of 
 the Constitution, we are Democrats and Re- 
 pubUcans; we are all Americans, and may 
 the sun of heaven cease to shine upon this, 
 or any other Convention, when it can be said 
 that upon the fimdamental principles of our 
 Constitutions we difier ; and may it cease to 
 shine upon Repubhcan America when we 
 shall not all imite upon the great principle 
 which underhes our Constitution, and the flag 
 of our common coimtry. Upon questions of 
 national and local policy we may difier, but 
 upon the grand fundamental principles of 
 government we agree ; and if the Republican 
 party and the Democratic party should merge 
 their labors into one Constitution here, God 
 speed the day. If this is a plank in the Re- 
 publican platform, let us difier about it. Gen- 
 
 tlemen say that it is. I care not whether it 
 be or not. I ask that question not here. I 
 vote upon this question fix)m my own convic- 
 tions of right, and other gentlemen vote upon 
 it according to their convictions of right. But 
 I say again, that to bestow equal suffrage 
 upon the negro race, without recognising their 
 social equality in community, is more of an 
 injury than a good. 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. I move to lay the amend- 
 ment to the substitute on the table. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN demanded the yeas and 
 nays upon laying the amendment on the 
 table. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being taken, it was decided in the 
 negative, yeas nine, nays thirty-eight, as 
 follows : 
 
 Teas — Messrs. Foster, King McKune, Morgan, 
 Mills, Smith, Thompson, "Watson and Willson. 
 
 ^'ayg — Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Ayer, Bates, 
 Bartholomew, Cleghorn, Colbnrn, Coggswell, Ce- 
 derstam. Coombs, Davis, Duley, Dickerson, 
 Eschlie, Folsom, Gerrish, Hall, Havden, Harding, 
 Hudson, Hanson, HoUey, Lyle, Mantor, 3IcCann, 
 McClure, Messer, Murphy, Xorth, Perkins, Put- 
 nam, Peckham, Russell, Sheldon, Secombe, 
 Vaughn, Walker and. Mr. President. 
 
 So the Convention refused to lay the 
 amendment upon the table. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I trust we shall now come 
 to a vote upon the amendment to my substi- 
 tute — the amendment to strike out the word 
 " white," and insert " citizens of the United 
 " States "—and that all will understand.that it 
 is substantially the same question decided 
 yesterday. It is, after all, the simple question 
 whether the word white shall, or shall not be 
 in the Constitution. I voted to lay it upon 
 the table, but I suppose that other gentlemen 
 voted against laying it upon the table, prefer- 
 ing to have a direct vote upon it, as the best 
 policy. This question has been sufBciently 
 debated, and I do not wish to discuss it any 
 more. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. One word before the vote 
 is taken upon this amendment and substitute. 
 I did not intend to say anything more upon 
 the question, but the gentleman from Scott 
 county (Mr. Galbbaith) urges very strongly 
 that we should not trample upon the Consti- 
 tution. Now it seems to me that the substi- 
 tute does trample upon the Constitution, and 
 that is my objection to it, and to my mind it 
 
876 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, August 7. 
 
 is a very strong objection. It tramples upon 
 the Constitution by cutting off a very large 
 class of citizens of the United States from 
 voting in this State. If it is adopted in its 
 present form, there are thousands upon thou- 
 sands of citizens of the United States, should 
 they come to this State, who could not vote. 
 Let us look at it for a moment, and at the 
 same time take into account the fact that in 
 New York and other States, colored persons 
 are citizens of the United States. They are 
 entitled to vote in those States under certain 
 restrictions. They are citizens of the United 
 States to all intents and purposes, and have 
 been so regarded. Now none af that class of 
 citizens of the United States are permitted to 
 vote, imder this substitute. Mark the 
 language. 
 
 "Every white male person of the age of twenty- 
 one years and upwards (excepting persons under 
 guardianship, non compos mentis, or insane) belong- 
 ing to either the following classes, &c., shall be 
 deemed a qualified elector at such, election, viz : 
 First — Citizens of the United States." 
 
 — That is to say, citizens of the United States 
 who are white male persons, may vote. It 
 does not go the full length of saying that 
 every citizen of the United States may vote. 
 I object most decidedly to having our Consti- 
 tution trample on the Constitution of the 
 United States, and upon men who are citizens 
 . under that Constitution. lirevere that instru- 
 ment, because it is an impartial Constitution, 
 and knows no such thing as complexion. I 
 am in favor of the amendment to that substi- 
 tute, because it includes all citizens of the 
 United States regardless of color. 
 
 The question recurring upon the amend- 
 ment, Mr. GALBRAITH moved a call of the 
 Convention. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the roll 
 being called, the following members failed to 
 answer to their names ; 
 
 Messrs. Billings, Bolles, Butler, Coe, Kemp, 
 Lowe, Bobbins and Winell. 
 
 Mr. HARDING moved that all further 
 proceedings under the call be dispensed with. 
 
 The motion was lost, and the Sergeant-at- 
 Arms was directed to report the absentees in 
 their seats. 
 
 After an interval of lialf an hour — 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN moved to reconsider the 
 vote by which the Convention refused to 
 
 suspend all further proceedings under the 
 call. 
 
 The motion to reconsider prevailed, and 
 then all further proceedings under the call 
 were dispensed with. 
 
 The question was taken on the amend- 
 ment oiFered by Mr. Hayden, and it was 
 decided in the negative. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE moved to amend the sub- 
 stitute by striking out the word " ten," and 
 inserting " thirty," so as to require a resi- 
 dence of ^thirty ^days in the town, ward or 
 precinct. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I would remark that per- 
 haps it would be better not to put in any 
 definite time, but to leave it with the Legisla- 
 ture. "We could do that by using the phrase- 
 ology, "and in the town, ward or precinct, as 
 " may be prescribed by law." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. In reply, I would say 
 that if we do not insert the word, the Legis- 
 lature will have no power. Leave it blank, 
 and it is the absolute right of those who have 
 resided [within the State six months, to vote. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN moved to amend the substi- 
 tute bji inserting after the word " birth," in 
 the first line of the second subdivision, the 
 words : 
 
 "Who has resided in the United States two 
 years next preceeding the election at which he 
 may claim the right to vote." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I desire to modify the 
 phraseology of the first subdivision of • 
 substitute. I wish to insert in place of 
 zen of the United States," the words — 
 
 "Persons, not aliens, born in the United ^ . 
 and persons of foreign birth, who have bee :■. 
 citizens of the United States, according to tii,' 
 laws thereof." 
 
 The reason why I desire to make that alto- 
 ration is, to meet a diificulty which would 
 exist in the phraseology, if the word " white " 
 should bo stricken out. If the phraseology 
 stands as it is now, and that word be stricken 
 out, it still leaves it a mooted question before 
 the courts, who arc citizens of the United 
 States, and the will of the people might be 
 defeated through the judiciary. If we go to 
 tlie trouble of having the 'people vote upon 
 the question, it is not worth while to leave it 
 an open (question at all. I oQcr it as an 
 amendment. 
 
MINNESOTA COXYENTIOX DEBATES— Fbidat, Augcst 7. 
 
 377 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move to strike out the 
 feecond and third subdivisions of the substi- 
 tute, and insert the following : 
 
 "Second, Every person who has been an inhabi- 
 tant of the United States (or two years next pre- 
 ceding the election at which he shall claim the 
 right to rote, shall be a qualified elector ; 
 
 " Provide always, Xo alien by birth, who is not 
 a citizen of the United States, shall have the right 
 to vote at any election, unless he shall exhibit to 
 the proper officer a certificate showing that he has 
 declared bis intention to become a citizen of the 
 United States in conformity with the laws of the 
 United States on the subject of naturalization ; 
 and, 
 
 " ProvOid further, That no person shall vote at 
 any election, unless he shall have complied with 
 the requirements of the Registry Act hereafter 
 provided for." 
 
 I desire that the article upon the Elective 
 Franchise shall be certain and definite in re- 
 gard to the question of negro sufiFrage. I de- 
 sire that we should insert such a provision in 
 the article that the people may know what it 
 means when they come to vote upon it. If 
 the provision should remain as it now is in 
 the substitute, and if the people of the Terri- 
 tory of Minnesota who propose to form a 
 State, should decide by a majority vote to 
 strike out the word " white," it would still be 
 left an open question — whether or not, ne- 
 groes were citizens of this State, for the rea- 
 son that the only provision for any class of 
 persons other than those of foreign birth, is 
 that they shall be citizens of the United 
 States. As the substitute now stands, there 
 are but three classes of persons who are ac- 
 corded the nght of suffrage : first, citizens of 
 the United States ; second, persons of foreign 
 birth, who have declared their intentions to 
 become citizens of the United States ; and 
 third, half-breeds, who have adopted the hab- 
 its of civilization. Now I say, should the 
 peonle of Minnesota decide, by the vote 
 which they will be called upon to give upon 
 this question, to strike out the word " white," 
 they would not, in so doing, surely accom- 
 plish the object they would have in view in 
 voting to do so. It would still be left to the 
 decisions of the Supreme Court of the United 
 States, or the Supreme Court of the State of 
 Minnesota, (the decision of the Supreme 
 Court of the United States being given, the 
 Supreme Court of the State would be bound 
 48 
 
 by it,) to decide whether colored persons were 
 or were not citizens of the United States, and 
 therefore citizens or not citizens of the State 
 of Minnesota under the provisions of a Con- 
 stitution like those in the substitute. I there- 
 fore desire that some amendment may be 
 made so that the matter may be put in a de- 
 finite form, and that the people, when they 
 vote to strike out the word " white," may be 
 assured in so doing, that they have accorded 
 to colored persons the right of suflFrage and 
 citizenship in this State. 
 
 Now if the amendment I have ofiFered should 
 be adopted, there would be three classes of 
 persons who would be entitled to the right of 
 sufiFrage : first, citizens of the United States ; 
 second, foreign persons, who had resided in 
 the United States two years, and had declared 
 their intentions to become citizens of the 
 United States ; third, persons who had been 
 inhabitants of the United States for two years 
 and who were not aliens, although they might 
 not be, by the decisions of the Courts, citi- 
 zens. In other words, if the Courts should 
 decide that negroes were not citizens of the 
 United States, they, not being aliens, would 
 be citizens of the State of Minnesota. I 
 hope, therefore, the amendment will prevail 
 upon that point. 
 
 In the second place, it is there provided that 
 no person shall be allowed to vote unless he 
 shall have complied with the terms of the Reg- 
 istry Act, which, it is to be presmned, we are 
 going to provide for in a subsequent section. 
 But if there be members of this Convention 
 who are in favor of the first part of the amend- 
 ment, and yet not disposed to restrict the 
 right to vote to those who have had their 
 names registered, an amendment can be made 
 to that eficct. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I do not know that I un- 
 derstand the gentleman, and I desire to ask 
 him if he is understood to say that if a case 
 should come before the Supreme Court of the 
 State, involving the right to citizenship of 
 any person, or any class of persons, whom 
 the Supreme Court of the United States have 
 decided not to be citizens, the Supreme Court 
 of the State would be obhged to render a de- 
 cision in accordance with the Supreme Court 
 of the United States ? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. If the Supreme Court of 
 the United States should decide that negroes 
 
878 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, August 7. 
 
 are not citizens of the United States, the Su- 
 preme Court of the State would be bound by 
 that decision, and negroes would not, under 
 our Constitution — provided this substitute is 
 adopted as it is — be citizens of this State. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I did not then misun- 
 derstand the gentleman. I first understand 
 him, however, to say that the Supreme Court 
 have decided that Africans are not citizens of 
 the United States, 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I did not say so, and I 
 do not think they did. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. Then the gentleman ba- 
 ses his amendment on the presumption that 
 they will so decide. I am not willing to pre- 
 sume any such thing. If they have not been, 
 I will not presume that they will be, guilty of 
 any such inconsistency, and I will not imply 
 it by providing against any such contingency. 
 
 Mr, FOSTER. The potat the gentleman 
 argues is the very one which was just decided 
 against by the Convention on the vote upon 
 the amendment, which I myself offered to the 
 substitute. The Convention decided that 
 they would not make any alteration in that 
 respect. Consequently, so far as tliat point 
 is concerned, it is settled, and the gentleman's 
 amendment is but bringing up the question 
 again. 
 
 There is still another point which that 
 amendment reaches, and to which I wish to 
 call the attention of the Convention. It ex- 
 cludes all civilized persons of Indian descent, 
 not members of any tribe. We had some 
 talk about that yesterday. I trust we shall 
 be disposed to do good so far as we can, and 
 that we will not attempt to disfranchise a large 
 body of citizens who are now voters. This 
 does not present the question of admitting 
 any class to vote, who have not heretofore en- 
 joyed that privilege, but it presents the ques- 
 tion of absolutely depriving, of that right in 
 future, a class who have heretofore enjoyed 
 it. I think we should not do that, and I 
 trust the amendment will not prevail for that 
 reason. 
 
 Mr, SECOMBE. 1 would state, in reply to 
 the remarks of the gentleman from Fillmore, 
 (Mr, CoLBUttN,) that although I do not believe 
 that the Supreme Court of the United States 
 have decided that negroes are not citizens, yet 
 I believe that they failed to decide that ques- 
 tioa, for the simple reason that the question 
 
 was not before them ; that they attempted to 
 decide it, and that so far as the expression 
 of their opinions in concerned, they did de- 
 cide it. But from the fact that the question 
 did not come before them — they themselves 
 deciding that it did not — the case went off 
 upon the simple point that they had not ju- 
 risdiction of the case ; or, in other words, that 
 the black man who had been a slave was not 
 a citizen of the United States within the 
 meaning of certain acts of Congress, to the 
 extent that he might bring a suit in the Uni- 
 ted States Court, and, therefore, they had not 
 jurisdiction of the case. That was the full 
 extent to which the decision of the Court 
 went. But at the same time, a majority of 
 the Judges of that Court did express an opin- 
 ion — extra-judicially to be sure — which would 
 go to the extent that a black man is not a cit- 
 izen of the United States, and could not be. 
 I am satisfied that with the present construc- 
 tion of that Court, the question would be de- 
 cided in that manner. Therefore, I desire 
 that we shall free the Constitution which we 
 are about to present to the people from that 
 doubt, that they may know, when they vote 
 to strike out the word " white," that they do 
 vote absolutely and positively that blacks may 
 vote. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. I had supposed that the 
 Supreme Court had made a pretty direct de- 
 cision upon that very point. I believe that 
 the judges in the Missouri court decided not 
 to entertain the suit, and that they had not 
 any jurisdiction, from the fact that' the black 
 man was not a citizen of the United States. 
 I believe the Supreme Court of the United 
 States affirmed that decision, and in affirm- 
 ing it, decided that the negro could not be a 
 citizen of the United States. Now so far as 
 the binding force and effect of that decision 
 is concerned, it would go this far ; tlie judges of 
 the Supreme Court of Minnesota, being Dem- 
 ocrats, would feel themselves bound by that ■ 
 decision, because it would be carrying out the 
 views of their party. If the judges were Repub- 
 licans they would treat the decision of that 
 court as they ought to, and consider it no 
 more binding upon them than it is binding 
 upon the Supreme Court of the United States. 
 1 hold that the decision of the Supreme Court 
 upon that point would be no more binding 
 upon the Supreme Court of this State, than a 
 
MINNESOTA CON^YENTION DEBATES— Feidat, August 7. 
 
 379 
 
 decision of the Supreme Court of this State 
 would be binding upon them. In my opinion 
 then, it will make no ditference whether you 
 adopt the amendment or not, for the court if 
 Democratic, will construe the Constitution so 
 as to favor the views of their political party. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I shaU be compeUed to 
 disagree with the gentleman upon the facts of 
 the case, and I will refer him to the decision 
 of the Circuit Court of the United States, for 
 Illinois, composed of Judge M'Lean of the 
 Supreme Court, and Judge Drummond, Cir- 
 cuit Judge of Illinois ; where they have de- 
 cided not only that a black man is a citizen of 
 the United States, but that the Supreme 
 Court of the United States in the Dred Scott 
 case did not decide to the contrary. The 
 ground is taken distinctly by Judge M'Lean, 
 that the only point decided was this : that a 
 negro who had been a slave, was not a citizen 
 of the United States within the meaning of 
 the particular act of Congress, which provided 
 what persons might bring suits in the United 
 States courts. The case in the Circuit Court 
 of Illinois came up on this wise : a negro 
 brought a suit in the Circuit Court of the 
 United States, and the question of law was 
 raised either by demurrer, or by appeal fitxii 
 the jurisdiction, that a negro could not bring 
 an action in the United States Courts. The 
 point of law was overruled in the Circuit 
 Court of the United States for the circuit in 
 which Illinois was included. 
 
 Mr. McCLCRE. I wish simply to say that 
 the gentleman does not correct me upon that 
 point. I say it is the understanding of the 
 Democratic party, and the understanding of 
 a majority of the Supreme Court of the 
 United States, that they did decide that ques- 
 tion. I am not going to take issue upon what 
 the particular views of Judge M'Lean mayor 
 may not be or what he may have decided. I 
 say that the court have decided that question, 
 and that the Democratic party holds that it 
 is so decided. I am arguing about matters as 
 they are now, and not as we might wish them 
 to be. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I have been remark- 
 ably quiet for me, to say the least of it dur- 
 ing this discussion, (laughter,) and you must 
 give me credit to that extent, (a voice, " you 
 shall have it") And what I have to say now 
 will be very short, certainly. I think we can 
 
 dispose of this question of the Elective Fran- 
 chise this afternoon, and do it understanding- 
 ly. I had supposed before this report was 
 brought before the ConvMition, that there was 
 a general understanding that we would insert 
 the word '' white" here, and then submit to 
 the people the question whether negroes should 
 vote, and if a majority of the votes was in 
 favor of it, then that negroes should be per- 
 mitted to vote ; and if a majority of the voters 
 were opposed to it, then they should not have 
 that right. I understood that that was the 
 general prevailing sentiment among the mem- 
 bers of this Convention. But it appears that 
 I was mistaken in regard to that matter. 
 Now so far as I am concerned individually, I 
 stand in this position : I came here as a mem- 
 ber of this Convention for the purpose of 
 aiding and assisting in drafting certain propo- 
 sitions to be submitted to the people, and that 
 none of those propositions shall have any 
 binding force or efficacy imtil they have been 
 ratified by the people; and so far as I am con- 
 cerned individually, I would like, provided it 
 could be done conveniently, to have every 
 single article which will be incorporated into 
 our Constitution, submitted to the people sep- 
 arately. But (hat cannot be done conveni- 
 ently, and hence I am in favor of having the 
 main portion of the Constitution submitted to 
 the people as one whole thing, and certain 
 other matters separately. When this sepa- 
 rate proposition is submitted to the people, 
 and I go home to my constituents, I appre- 
 hend that I shall be just as much in favor of 
 the rights of colored persons in this Territory 
 as my Mend from Rice County, (Mr. Nobth) 
 or my friends from any other coimty ; and I 
 will ten the people that, in my judgment, the 
 colored population of this Territory, over 
 twenty-one years of age, who aid and assist 
 m bearing the bxurdens of taxation, should 
 have a voice in the enactment of the laws 
 which govern and control their action. 
 
 But so far as the manner of submitting this 
 question is concerned, I am decidedly in favor 
 of having it submitted as a separate proposi- 
 tion, as to who shall and who shall not vote. 
 I say that I am in favor of giving to eveiy male 
 citizen of the United States, who is over twen- 
 ty-one years of age, who has been a resident of 
 this State sLs months, and a resident of the 
 coimty ten days, the right to vote. In the next 
 
880 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, August 7. 
 
 place I am in favor of every white male inhabi- 
 tant, over and above that age, and who is of 
 foreign birth, who is a resident of the Territory 
 at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, 
 having the right to vote. Then I am in favor 
 also of giving the right to vote to every male 
 inhabitant of foreign birth over twenty-one 
 years of age, &c., after he has been here two 
 years — a time sufficient to acquaint himself 
 with the general machinery of government. 
 
 Now I want that expressed in as plain and 
 definite language as it possibly can be. And 
 here I wish to say, that in looking over this 
 report of the committee, my judgment is, that 
 they have not chosen as good language as I 
 think they might have chosen, and which 
 would have conveyed more distinctly and 
 definitely the rights and privileges of persons 
 therein named. 
 
 Besides all that, I am opposed to the latter 
 part and portion of that substitute, and in 
 favor of substituting something like what I 
 hold in my hand, and which I shall ofl^er at 
 the proper time, either in the shape of an 
 amendment or substitute. It is in this lan- 
 guage following : 
 
 " Every male person of the age of twenty-one 
 years and upwards, belonging to either of the fol- 
 lowing classes, and who shall have resided in this 
 State for the period of six months, and in the 
 town, precinct, or ward ten days, next preceding 
 any election, shall be deemed a qualified elector, 
 and have the right to vote for all offices elective 
 by the people — 
 
 "First — Citizens of the United States. 
 
 " Second — White persons of foreign birth who 
 shall have declared their intention to become citi- 
 tens of the United States, in conformity to the 
 laws of Congress on the subject of naturalization, 
 and who are residents of this State at the time of 
 the adoption of this Constitution. 
 
 " Third — White persons of foreign birth who 
 shall have declared their intentions to become cit- 
 izens of the United States in conformity to the 
 laws of Congress on the subject of naturalization, 
 and who have been residents of the United States 
 for the period of two years. 
 
 "Fourth — All male persons of mixed Indian 
 blood, and all full blooded Indians who have 
 adopted the habits and customs of civilized life, of 
 the age of twenty -one years and upwards who can 
 write their own names and read this Constitution 
 either in their own or the English language, and 
 who shall take an oath to support the same, and 
 who are not members of any tribe and do not 
 receive the annuities from the United States, and 
 who shall have resided in the said county, town, 
 
 ward, or precinct, the same length of time re- 
 quired of other voters, shall have the right to vote 
 at any and all elections. Provided, however, that 
 no such person shall be entitled to the elective 
 franchise, unless he shall have obtained a certifi- 
 cate from some judge of the circuit or supreme 
 court showing that upon a thorough examination 
 he possesses the«bove qualifications. And it shall 
 be the duty of the Legislature fiom time to time 
 to provide for the manner in which said examina- 
 tion shall be conducted." 
 
 Now that expresses my views in regard 
 to the elective franchise pretty clearly. And 
 here let me say, that the fourth clause which 
 I have introduced, is introduced upon the re- 
 quest of Mr. RiGGS, Indian Missionary among 
 the Indians upon the Sioux reservation. The 
 clause he desired me to introduce was a little 
 different from this„ but upon showing it to 
 him, he said it would answer better than noth- 
 ing, and would throw restrictions around this 
 matter of fraud committed under color of the 
 right of these mixed, and full blooded Indians 
 to vote. It will put an end to this matter 
 of dressing up Indians, giving them an ap- 
 pearance of civilization, leading them up to 
 the polls to vote, and then leading them away, 
 stripping off their clothes, and putting them 
 upon other Indians for the same purpose. 
 "We claim that that thing shall not be done. 
 But as I am satisfied that there are certain 
 mixed blood Indians as well qualified to exer- 
 cise the elective franchise as many of those 
 w^ho will undoubtedly exercise it, I am 
 decidedly in Tavor of extending it to them 
 under these restrictions. 
 
 Now I hope this thing will be put in a nut 
 shell, and in such language as cannot be mis- 
 construed, which all will understand. If the 
 language I have proposed is any better than 
 the language made use of by the mover of 
 the substitute, or by the mover of the amend- 
 ment, or by the committee, I should like to 
 see it adopted ; and I would like to see the 
 same principle incorporated into the article 
 upon the elective Franchise. I certainly 
 am opposed to have the right of the ne- 
 gro to vote incorporated into the Constitu- 
 tion and made a part and parcel of it. I am 
 opposed to making the fute of the Constitu- 
 tion depend upon that. But I am in favor of 
 having it submitted to the people separately, 
 and if the people desire that negroes shall 
 vote, let them vote. So far as the people of 
 Steele county are concerned, they will show 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Fkibay, Arcrsr 7. 
 
 381 
 
 as good a vote for it, as the votes of Rice 
 county, taking into consideration their popu- 
 lation. 
 
 Mr. "WILSON. I think amendments pro- 
 posed to this matter, will show that it has not 
 been looked at as much, probably, by those 
 offering amendments, as it has been by the 
 members of the committee which made the 
 report I agree with my firiends from Rice 
 and Steele counties exactly as to who should 
 be entitled to vote, and I think the original 
 report of this committee arrives at just that. 
 I am not here to defend the language of that 
 report, though I think that this first section 
 is in better language than any which has 
 been offered as a substitute. I like it, as far 
 as language is concerned, and certainly, so 
 far as sentiment is concerned. There are two 
 or three things to be avoided. If the word 
 " white " be stricken out, it is necessary to 
 • have this part of the Constitution in a proper 
 shape to correspond to that change. Any 
 person by looking at the report as we have 
 drawn it up, will see- that it will be left in 
 proper shape, for it was drawn with spe- 
 cial reference to that fact. 
 
 Some of the amendments which have been 
 proposed, I object to in toto,'&nd if this Con- 
 vention is going to pass some of them, I may 
 be compelled to change my position, for it 
 then becomes a choice of evils. For instance, 
 making it necessary that every person of for- 
 eign birth should exhibit a certificate of some 
 officer that he has declared his intention to 
 become a citizen of the United States. I 
 object to that, in the first place, because it is 
 an implication that aliens or persons of for- 
 eign birth are not as honest as other people 
 are. That would be sufficient to influence 
 my vote, and I shall oppose it directly and 
 indirectly. I shall never submit to any thing 
 of that kind unless I am compelled to. 
 
 But there is another reason still stronger why 
 I oppose it. There are many aliens by birth 
 who become citizens of the United States 
 and never declare their intentions to be- 
 come citizens. Does the gentleman from 
 Dakota, wish to introduce a new law upon 
 the subject of naturalization? 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I believe that clause upon 
 which the gentleman comments, does not 
 apply to any who are citizens, but only to 
 those who are not citizens. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I may be mistaken. I 
 must read it. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. My amendment does not, 
 because the provision is '* citizens of the 
 " United States." 
 
 Mr. WILSON. But it has its application 
 to the fullest extent on the other account I 
 spoke of, and to that I cannot agree. Suppose 
 a foreigner has declared his intentions to 
 become a citizen, but has lost his certificate, 
 and the judges of election declare that they 
 cannot take his oath ? Must he be compelled 
 to send all over the United States for it, before 
 he shall be permitted to vote ? It is wrong 
 and I am opposed to it, and I trust the Con- 
 vention are opposed to it 
 
 Further, the original report of the committee 
 provides that foreigners who have been resi- 
 dents of the Territory for six months, and 
 resided in the Territory at the time of the 
 adoption of this Constitution, shall be quali- 
 fied electors. I believe they should be. 
 They came here and endured the hardships 
 and privations of frontier life, and helped to 
 make Minnesota what she is, and they should 
 be electors. I think this Convention thinks 
 so too. 
 
 I am also opposed to this wholesale making 
 of Indian, or mixed bloods, qualified voters. 
 There are many of them I would wish to 
 extend that privilege to, but not promis- 
 cuously. Now the ninth section of the 
 article reported by the committee, provides 
 that— 
 
 " Xo persons belonging to any Indian tribe) or 
 who shall not have assumed the habita of civilized 
 life, shall ever be a qualified elector." 
 
 — What does that mean? It has no force 
 whatever, if the word " white" is lefl in the 
 Constitution. 
 
 Mr. KING moved (at twelve o'clock and 
 fifteen minutes) that the Convention adjourn 
 until half past two. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and thereupon 
 the Convention adjourned. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention assembled at half-past two 
 o'clock, and immediately resumed the report 
 of the committee on the 
 
 ELECTIVE FBAXCHISE. 
 
 The pending question being upon the adop- 
 tion of the substitute offered by Mr. Fosteb. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, August 7. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN moved to amend the 
 third clause of the substitute by adding 
 thereto the words — 
 
 " Provided, they comply with the same requisi- 
 tions required of persons of foreign birth." 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. CO GG SWELL. I move to amend by 
 
 striking out all after the first word " every," 
 
 and inserting the words I read this morning, 
 
 when I gave notice of offering an amendment. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I would inquire if it is in 
 order to introduce a substitute for a substitute. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is not. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. The amendment offered 
 by the gentleman from Steele county is sub- 
 stantially a substitute for a substitute. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. Substantially it is, 
 but technically it is not. The Chair thinks 
 the gentleman has a right ^to offer the 
 amendment. 
 
 The question was taken on the amendment, 
 and it was rejected. 
 
 The question recurring on the substitute — 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL said : I would inquire 
 if the question is divisible, so tlaat we can 
 vote upon each clause separately ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. In the opinion of the 
 Chair, it is divisible. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Then I call for a 
 division. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair would sug- 
 gest that the question should be taken upon 
 the first, second, and third divisions first, and 
 upon the preamble last. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. My object was to 
 get a vote upon those three propositions sepa- 
 rately. 
 
 The question was then put upon the first 
 subdivision, viz : " citizens of the United 
 " States," and it was decided in the negative. 
 (Great laughter.) 
 
 The question was then taken upon the 
 second and third subdivisions respectively, 
 and they were severally rejected. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICII. WUl it be in order to 
 move to go into committee of the Whole to 
 take into consideration the report of the com- 
 mittee upon the Elective Franchise ? It seems 
 to me that we had better do so, as we are 
 making a great deal of work for our reporters. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Docs not the reporter 
 report in committee of the Whole, as well as 
 Ib the Convention, and ^wiU not tide same 
 
 words amount to as much in one place as in 
 the other ? 
 
 Mr. DICKERSON. As the substitute has 
 been disposed of, I move to amend the first 
 section by striking out the word " two," and 
 inserting " one," so as to require only one 
 years residence instead of two. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN moved to amend section 'ouo 
 line twelve, by striking out the word " have," 
 and inserting the words, " produce evidence 
 of having," so that it shall read — 
 
 "Shall be a qualified elector until he shall have 
 produced evidence of having declared his intention 
 to become a citizen, &c." 
 
 • Mr. WILSON. I will not argue that 
 amendment, but I will say that it involves the 
 same idea which \^as advanced this morning, 
 of requiring the foreigner to produce his cer- 
 tificate that he has declared his intentions to 
 become a citizen of the United States. It| 
 declares tacitly that his .word is not so good 
 as that of other men. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I hope that part of the sec- 
 tion will be retained, whether amended or not. 
 Now I know that the oath of the Irish Cath- 
 olic amounts to but very little. I have seen 
 it tried too often, and I think it but proper 
 that he should produce such evidence as is 
 required by the section. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. There is another provis- 
 ion in this report which provides for the reg- 
 istration of votes and the preparation of poll 
 lists. Now this provision would be peculiarly 
 applicable to the preparation of poll lists, 
 where the applicant should be required to 
 show some evidence of being entitled to vote. 
 
 The remedy which is intended to be reme- 
 died is the rushing up of men to the polls 
 when they do not know exactly whether they 
 are swearing truly or not. Sometimes they 
 are brought up from whiskey shops when 
 they do not know what they are about. It 
 seems to me that this requirement would 
 remedy that evil in a great measure. Cer- 
 tainly it is requiring no more than to require 
 an oath, and it does not seem to me that 
 it would be imposing a greater hardship. It 
 may be considered insulting, but frequently 
 the requiring of an oath is resented. This is 
 also conformable to the practice in other 
 States. In Pennsylvania, I believe, natural- 
 ized citizens are required to produce their 
 
JUXNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Feidat, Arcrsr 7. 
 
 S83 
 
 naturalization papers, while this only applies 
 to those who have not been naturalized. It 
 simply requires them to show, at the time of 
 voting, that tliey are entitled to vote. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I do not know whether 
 there is a Constitutional provision in Pennsyl- 
 vania. The eases are not at all analagous. 
 In Pennsylvania there are no pre-emptors, 
 while here we are all pre-emptors. By the 
 rule of the Greneral Land OflBce, every man, 
 when he pre-empts is required to send his 
 declaration of intention to become a citizen of 
 the United States, to the General Land Office 
 at Washington. They require that proof, 
 and will accept nothing else. Now then, if 
 you make the same requirement as a qualifi- 
 cation for voting you shut out every foreigner 
 from voting until he can send all over the 
 United States and get another certificate of 
 his declaration of intention. Now that is 
 vmjust and unfeir, and I do not believe that 
 this Convention will adopt any such clause. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I do not want anything but 
 what is fair in this case. But the objection 
 that is urged, arising out of foreigners being 
 required to file their certificates of intention 
 when they pre-empt, amounts to but little 
 because the great mass of foreign population 
 in this City and in St. Paul, never will pre- 
 empt. And furthermore we aU know that 
 the great mass of foreigti population who are 
 required to take an oath do not vmderstand 
 the luture of an oath, and do not know what 
 they are about, when they do take an oath. 
 I have seen a hundred of them at a time, 
 who did not know what they were about when 
 they went to the polls to vote, because they 
 were drunk. But if they are obliged to pre- 
 sent a certificate, there is somelliing to be 
 relied upon. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. It is not true what has 
 been stated. I pretend to know somethin*' 
 about that. It is not correct that most of 
 foreigners do not know the nature of an oath, 
 and that they will swear fidsely as quick as 
 they will truly. It is felse, fahe, false. 
 That is all I have to say. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I hope Uiis provision 
 will be adopted, for it supercedes the neces- 
 sity of a registry law. I think the gentle- 
 man is very much mistaken in regard to the 
 transmission of the original declaration of 
 intention to become a citizen to Washington. 
 
 The original must be deposited with the clerk 
 of the court before which he makes his 
 declaration, and he takes a certified copy of 
 that declaration, and if it is necessary to for- 
 ward such an instnmient as that to the Com- 
 missioner of the General Land Office at 
 Washington, it is only necessary to get a cer- 
 tified copy thereof As many certified copies 
 can be obtained as may be desired — one for 
 Washington, and one to be used vmder this 
 requirement. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. There is no difficulty at 
 all about getting certificates. Men frequently 
 lose their copy, and are obliged to get another 
 one. As remarked by the gentleman from 
 Chisago, the original remains on tiie files of 
 the court before whom the declarati<xi is 
 originally made, and duplicate copies can 
 always be obtained. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I used to be posted 
 upon this matter, at a certain time, and if I 
 now recollect the mode and manner of doing 
 this thing it is this : A foreigner comes, for 
 instance, to the city of New York ; he goes 
 before the clerk of some court of record and 
 declares his intention to become a citizen of 
 the United States. He receives from the 
 clerk a certificate of the feet that he has so 
 declared his intentions, and brings it with him 
 to Minnesota. , When he gets here, he seeks 
 to pre-empt a tract of land. At the time he 
 does pre-empt, it is indispensably necessary 
 that he shall transmit this certificate, or some 
 other certificate, showing that he has declared 
 his intention to become a citizen of the Uni- 
 ted States, to the department at Washington 
 before he can obtain a patent for his land. 
 Well, having sent that away, as required by 
 law, it would be necessary for him to send 
 clear back to the city of New York to get 
 another certificate showing the same fact, and 
 in the mean time, perhaps, an election has 
 interposed, and not having a certificate in his 
 pocket, of course he could not vote. 
 
 Another objection arises. Not one foreigner 
 in ten knows the fact that he can send back 
 to New York to the clerk of the court in 
 which he filed his original declaration of in- 
 tention, and get a duplicate copy. The prac- 
 tical operation of this thing would be exceed- 
 ingly bad. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. If I understand the 
 amendment, it is, that the person of foreign 
 
884 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, August 7. 
 
 birth shall produce evidence of having de- 
 clared his intention. It does not say that he 
 shall produce the certificate. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. That is true. But 
 in furnishing evidence we all understand that 
 the general rule is that the best evidence the 
 nature of the case admits of, must be pro- 
 duced, and of course, the certificate, being 
 the best evidence, must be produced. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. But if the best evidence 
 cannot be produced, a certificate copy would 
 answer. 
 
 Mr. KING. I cannot see any use of the 
 amendment. It is the object of the registry 
 law, which this report contemplates being 
 made, to secure the ballolbox against fraud 
 from every quarter. Frauds are not commit- 
 ted by foreigners only, but we have as luany 
 native-born citizens as bad as any that cou^e 
 from other countries. And if this is designed 
 to supercede the registry law, I go against it 
 altogether. We want a registry law which 
 will guard against fraud from every quarter, 
 and of every kind. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I understand the gentle- 
 man from Minneapolis to say that the pre- 
 emptor, sending his certificate to the Land 
 OfiBce at Washington, could obtain a certifi- 
 cate from the Land Ofiice to that effect, and 
 that that certificate would b§ sufficient evi- 
 dence. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I said he might have a 
 certified copy. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Now if the gentleman will 
 say, as a lawyer, that any such certificate 
 could be required of the Land Office, I think 
 it strange ; and if he says that that certificate 
 so certified to, would be evidence, I think it 
 very strange, for I say, unhesitatingly, that 
 neither would be correct. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. AU the difficulties which 
 have been suggested here in relation to the 
 production of certificates, will be found to 
 exist in regard to a man's getting his original 
 naturalization papers. If he sends his cer- 
 tificate of declaration to Washington, he loses 
 his evidence of having filed his declaration ; 
 and it is no more an objection in this than it 
 would be in that case. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I am disposed not to favor 
 this amendment for the reason that it requires 
 evidence to be given at the polls. Who is to 
 say what kind of evidence is required ; 
 
 whether by" certificate, or by the evidence of 
 disinterested parties, who may be cognisant 
 of the fact, that the requirements of the law 
 have been complied with ? It appears to me 
 that it would create a perfect Babel at the 
 polls. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. In my opinion, the pas- 
 sage of this amendment will be tantamount 
 to an exclusion of the foreign vote. I know 
 that no honest foreigner will vote if he is re- 
 quired to have his certificate in his hand. He 
 will consider it as a declaration that he is not 
 to be believed under oath. Nor can you guard 
 the ballot-box in that way, for in the city of 
 St. Paul, it will be as easy to manufacture 
 false papers of declaration of intention, as it 
 is to manufacture false certificates of election, 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I do not see that I 
 have any particular objection to this report as 
 a whole. To have good evidence of a man's 
 right to vote, is certainly right. That evi- 
 dence is, in such cases, generally the certifi- 
 cate of declaration of intention. It is the re- 
 quisition which was made in the State from 
 which I came. I submit whether, with this 
 article standing as it now is, it would not be 
 perfectly Constitutional for the Legislature to 
 pass a law requiring every evidence they 
 please ? For instance, this section says that 
 " Every white male inhabitant of the age of 
 " twenty -one years and upwards, who shall 
 " have resided in the State six months, &c." 
 Now there is a fact to be proved, and if it is 
 contested, it is perfectly competent for the 
 Legislature to provide what evidence shall be 
 required to prove those facts. 
 
 True, by adopting the amendment, some 
 might be disfranchised, but I do not see any 
 great danger of disfranchising men, because 
 I know this to be a fact, that foreigners, be- 
 coming citizens of Minnesota, never can get 
 their final naturalization papers, until they 
 produce the certificate of declaration of in- 
 tention, for that must be made part of the re- 
 cord. So that he must have his papers any- 
 how, or forever remain not a citizen of the 
 United States, and forever ineligible to all the 
 rights of citizens. lie may be a citizen of 
 Minnesota, but not a citizen of the United 
 States. I think this section, though not 
 worded exactly as I could desire, will allow 
 the Legislature to pass such laws, in regard 
 to evidence, as will be proper in regard to the 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, August 7. 
 
 385 
 
 point of declaration of intention and all other 
 requirements contained in the section. 
 
 In the next section we allow the Legi^- 
 ture to provide a general election law. I 
 think we must leave that to the Legislature, 
 because men, under present circumstances, 
 are frequently placed in position that they 
 are disfranchised, who would really have a 
 right to vote under the Constitution, but for 
 lack of some evidence. I see the difficulty 
 that foreigners in the country would be in- 
 volved in. I know it is hardly ever the case 
 that foreigners coming in, have their certifi- 
 cates, and they hardly ever think of sending 
 for them. Under such circumstances they 
 come to the polls, and if they are challenged, 
 they are excluded, and there is no help for 
 them. 
 
 One word in regard to section nine. It 
 says that "No person belonging to any Indian 
 "tribe, or who shall not have assumed the 
 " habits of civilized life, shall ever be a quali- 
 " fied elector." I would ask the committee 
 whether the affirmative of that proposition 
 was not intended ? and whether it would not 
 be better to put it in an affirmative form ? I 
 suppose the intention is to bestow a right, 
 positively, upon a certain class of persons. I 
 would like it more definite. 
 
 The question being upon Mr. Mobgax's 
 amendment — 
 
 Mr. WILSON called for the yeas and nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being put it was decided in the ne- 
 gative — ^yeas 6, nays 37, as follows : . 
 
 Teas. — Messrs. Bates, Davis, Hall, Hayden, Mor- 
 gan, and Mills. — 6. 
 
 JS'ai/s. — Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Ajer, Bar- 
 tholomew, Butler, Cleghom. Colbum, Coggswell, 
 Cederstam, Coombs, Duley, Dickerson, Eschlie, 
 Folsom, Galbraith, Harding, Hudson, Hanson, 
 HoUey, King, Lyle, Mantor, McKune, JlcClure, 
 Messer, Phelps, Perkins, Putnam, Peckham, Rob- 
 bins, Stannard, Sheldon, Taughn, Walker, Wat- 
 son, Wilson, and the President. — 37. 
 
 So the amendment was rejected- 
 Mr. MORGAN. I would ask some mem- 
 ber of the committee to explain their views 
 of the appUcation of the following paragraph 
 of the report : 
 
 " Or if he shall be an inhabitant of this State at 
 the time of the adoption of this Constitution." 
 
 I wish to know what class of voters it re- 
 fers to and how many classes it includes in 
 49 
 
 itsparticular appUcation, taken in connecation 
 tion with the preceding part of the report? 
 
 No one answers, and I will move to strike 
 out those words. In the first clause of this 
 section it is made absolutely necessary that 
 j every pei-son, who shall vote, shall have been 
 ; an inhabitant of the State six months, and an 
 I inhabitant of the town, ward or precinct ten 
 I days. This proviso says, " if he shall be an 
 1 "inhabitant of this State at the time of the 
 j " adoption of this Constitution." Now the 
 I six months clause is general, and this proviso 
 ; can only apply to a person not a native of 
 this country, and the efiect of it is to allow 
 persons, not natives of this country, but who 
 have declared their intentions to become citi- 
 zens, to vote before they have been in the 
 country two years ; and, then, in any election 
 subsequent to the adoption of this Constitu- 
 tion, provided they have been in this State 
 six months. If that is the meaning, I think 
 there is the same objection to their voting for 
 the next eighteen months after tiie adoption 
 of this Constitution, as there would be at any 
 other time, provided they have not been here 
 two years. I do not exactly see the reason 
 why persons from foreign[countries who have 
 been in the Territory six months, should be 
 allowed to vote for the first eighteen months 
 after we become a State, when they would 
 not be allowed to vote, if they had not hap- 
 pend to be here upon the day of the adoption 
 of the Constitution. If they came the day 
 after, the privilege would not be allowed to 
 them. ^ 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I do think that those per- 
 sons who came here when our country was 
 all a frontier and have endured the hardships 
 incident to such a hfe, should have privileges 
 over others. And that is the ground upon 
 which that provision is based. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I cannot understand why 
 a man who comes into the Territory the day 
 before the Constitution is adopted, should be 
 placed a year and a half ahead of the man 
 who happens to come in the day after. 
 
 The question was then taken and the 
 amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I move to amend the 
 same clause by striking out the words " shall 
 " be an inhabitant" and inserting " have his 
 " home and residence m this State." 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
386 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Pbiday, August 7. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I move to amend by- 
 striking out " inhabitant of this Statd" in the 
 same clause, and insert "resident of this 
 State." There is considerable difference be- 
 tween being an inhabitant, and a resident of 
 a State. If that amendment should be adop- 
 ted, it will cure all the diflBculties which are 
 suggested by the gentleman from Saint An- 
 thony. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I am not aware that 
 there are many more amendments to be of- 
 fered to this first section. It has been pretty 
 freely discussed. The last section of this re- 
 port has something so indefinite about it, that 
 I must call the attention of the Convention 
 to it again. Before it is finally adopted I 
 want to understand what it really means. As 
 it stands, it seems to me to be only declara- 
 tory of negative. I presume it was put in 
 here upon the presumption that the word 
 " white" would be stricken out, and then no 
 Indian of half-blood or quarter blood could 
 ever vote. But if the word " white" remains 
 in the Constitution, this section seems to be 
 useless. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to amend section 
 two by striking out the words " shall not be 
 " held answerable for refusing," and insert- 
 ing " shall not receive." 
 
 The section now reads as follows : 
 
 " It shall be the duty of the Legislature to pro- 
 vide by law at its first session that lists of the names 
 of qualified electors shall be used at all elections 
 required by this Constitution, and likewise to pro- 
 vide as to the manner in which said lists shall be 
 made out and used, and the presiding oflBcers at 
 said elections shall not be held answerable for re- 
 fusing the votes of any person whose name is not 
 found on said lists as required by law." 
 
 My object is to make the requirement defi- 
 nite. It seems to me that the provision was 
 left in rather a loose way, and would give the 
 presiding officer the right to refuse or not to 
 refuse to receive votes not upon the list. It 
 simply says they " shall not be held answer- 
 aV>le for not receiving," but there is no provision 
 that they shall not receive them. The whole 
 object of a registry law would be defeated, if 
 there were not some more stringent provision 
 upon that subject. The object of the registry 
 law is to have the names of all the voters upon 
 the poll lists, and if votes are to be received 
 from those whose names are not there, there is 
 
 no use of having a poll list at all. My amend- 
 ment would make a registry of the names 
 necessary before the time of voting. The 
 Legislature may prescribe the manner and 
 the time when the names shall be so entered, 
 and may make provision for entering them 
 even after the opening of the polls, though that 
 is contrary to the usual rule, which always 
 has been, that the presiding officers at the 
 election have no power to insert names in the 
 list. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I hope the Convention 
 will not refuse to adopt the proposed amend- 
 ment. It seems to me that the section, if it 
 is intended to mean anything at all, means 
 that the judges of election shall not receive 
 the votes of any whose names are not upon 
 the poU lists. But it does not express that 
 idea, but leaves it to the discretion of the 
 judge to receive the vote or not ; it throws the 
 whole power into the hands of the judges of 
 election. To carry out the evident intention, 
 it is necessary to make the change. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I would enquire of the 
 Chair if the whole report has been under con- 
 sideration ? Has each section been read ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair has no 
 means of knowing. The committee of the 
 Whole took the report into consideration and 
 reported it back to the Convention without 
 any information whatever of their action 
 upon it. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. There seems to be 
 quite a desire to change some of the provis- 
 ions of this bill, and I think, as we have some 
 other work to do, it will be well to let this 
 report lay over for a day at least. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. Oh, let us finish it. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. We had better pro- 
 ceed carefully, but I will not urge the matter. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I move to strike out sec- 
 tion nine. It says that — 
 
 "No person belonging to any Indian tribe, or 
 who shall not have assumed the habits of civilized 
 life, shall ever be a qualified elector." 
 
 — Now that certainly means nothing, for the 
 first section says that, " every white male 
 inhabitant, &c.," So the voter must be 
 white, and as the Indian is not white, he can- 
 not vote under the first section. What, then, 
 is the use of the ninth section ? 
 Mr. WILSON. In explanation, allow me 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, August 7. 
 
 887 
 
 to say that that section means nothing in 
 practical effect unless the word " white " be 
 stricken from the Constitution by the pro- 
 posed vote of the people. If it is stricken 
 out, then this section would be necessary. It 
 was framed with that contingency in view. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I do not wish to 
 offer an amendment, but I wish to say that 
 the report, as it now stands, is exceedingly 
 bungling, indefinite and uncertain ; that it is 
 ill in every shape and particular, especially 
 when taken all through as a whole. To my 
 mind it might be bettered in many particulars. 
 
 But it appears that we differ as to ^hat 
 those particulars shall be. So far as I am 
 concerned, perhaps I may vote for it with the 
 idea and understanding that I cannot do any 
 better, but I wish it distinctly understood 
 that it does not suit my ideas at all, and that 
 a man with any sagacity, can pick a great 
 many flaws in it. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move that the report be 
 laid upon the table. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the report 
 was laid upon the table. 
 
 AMEKDMEXTS TO THE CONSTITUTION, AC. 
 
 On motion of Mr. GALBRAITH, the Con- 
 vention resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole, (Mr. Mills in the chair) upon the 
 report of the committee on Amendments and 
 revision of the Constitution. (For report see 
 proceedings of August fifth.) 
 
 The report was read by clauses for amend- 
 ments. 
 
 Sec. 1. The Legislature may, by a vote of two- 
 tbirds of the members of either branch, propose 
 amendments to this Constitution, which proposed 
 amendments shall be published in at least one news- 
 paper in each county of the State, where a news- 
 paper is published, f)r three months preceding 
 the next election for Representatives to the As- 
 sembly, and at such election shall be submitted to 
 the people for their approval or rejection, and if a 
 majority of the votes cast at such election for and 
 against be in favor of such amendments, they shall 
 become part of this Constitution. When more 
 than one amendment shall be submitted at the 
 same election, they shall be voted upon separately. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH moved to strike out the 
 word "Assembly" in the sixth line, and 
 insert the word "Legislature." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to strike out the 
 word " either " in the second line, and insert 
 
 " each." It strikes me as very bad policy to 
 allow one branch of the Legislature to bring 
 the whole people to a vote upon an amend- 
 ment to this Constitution ; that it would be 
 leaving the matter exceedingly loose, and 
 establishing a precedent such as I have never 
 known before. In the State of Massachu- 
 setts, where I have been more particularly 
 acquainted, it required a vote of two-thirds 
 of both branches of the Legislature for two 
 consecutive years, before any amendment 
 could be submitted to the people. But here 
 we propose that if two-thirds of one branch 
 of the Legislature proposes an amendment, it 
 shall be submitted to the people, without the 
 concurrence of the other branch, at the very 
 next election. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. As the chairman of the 
 committee which reported this article is not 
 present, I will say, that I find, in looking at 
 this report, that it is different from what I 
 supposed it was, and what was agreed upon 
 in committee. The understanding in com- 
 mittee was, that either branch of the Legisla- 
 ture might propose amendments, and then if 
 they were concurred in by two-thirds of both 
 Houses, this should be submitted to the 
 people. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I would suggest that 
 the language should be "both branches," 
 instead of "each branch." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I accept that modification 
 of my amendment. 
 
 The amendment as modified, was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH moved to amend by 
 striking out all before the word " in " in the 
 third line, and insert in Ueu thereof the 
 words — 
 
 " Any amendment or amendments to this Con- 
 stitution may be proposed by either branch of the 
 Legislature, and if the same shall be agreed to by 
 two-thirds of the members of each House, such 
 proposed amendment or amendments shall be 
 entered upon their journals, and published." 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I would simply remark 
 that the amendment of the gentleman from 
 Scott county, is in effect what was agreed 
 upon in committee, and what I suppose was 
 reported. After the report was prepared, the 
 members of the committee attached their 
 names without looking it over. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH further moved to amend 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, August 7. 
 
 by inserting after the word " people " in the 
 ■sixth line, the words — 
 
 "At such time and place, and in such manner as 
 the Legislature may direct." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Sec. 2. Whenever two-thirds of the members of 
 both branches of the Legislature shall deem it ex- 
 pedient to revise this Constitution, they may call a 
 Convention for that purpose, making by law all 
 needful provisions relative to the same. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I move to strike out 
 section two. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I am in favor of strik- 
 ing out section two, from the fact that I 
 think there are suificient provisions in the 
 first and in subsequent sections of the report, 
 both as to amendments to this Constitution, and 
 to its revision by a Constitutional Convention. 
 The first section provides for amendments 
 submitted through the Legislature. That will 
 give an opportunity to amend as much as 
 would be required. Then the third section 
 provides that in the year 1870, and every 
 twenty years thereafter, the question of a 
 revision of the Constitution shall be submit- 
 ted to the people. If the people say " yes,'' 
 then the Constitution is to be revised. In 
 my opinion, that is suflQciently often for the 
 people to incur the expense, especiallj'^ when 
 they have an opportunity through the Legis- 
 lature to get amendments at any time. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. There is a provision in 
 nearly all Constitutions, giving the Legislature 
 the power, at any time, to call a Convention 
 for the revision of the Constitution. In 
 Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, and other States, 
 where wise men have consulted together, they 
 have seen fit to make a provision of this kind, 
 and we were not disposed to take upon our- 
 selves the responsibility of making a different 
 recommendation to this Convention. It may 
 not only be necessary to have such amend- 
 ments as may be proposed by the Legislature, 
 but it may be necessary to have a revision of 
 the Constitution before ]870, as the country 
 is new, and great changes may occur before | 
 that time. This section can do no harm. ! 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I object to giving the I 
 Legislature the power to call a Constitutional j 
 Convention upon their own motion. I believe 
 that the question should be submitted to the 
 people first in all instances, whether they re- 
 (juire a revision of the Constitution. This 
 
 [ section gives the Legislature power, at any 
 I time, when a two-third vote can be obtained, 
 ! to call a Constitutional Convention ; and as 
 j a matter of course, to require the people to 
 I bear the expense, which is no small matter — 
 i fifty to a hundred thousand dollars. If the 
 I people desire a revision, and are willing to 
 : bear the expense, they will say so. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the section 
 was stricken out. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS moved to amend the first 
 .section, by striking out the words "for and 
 against" in the eighth line. 
 
 Mi». HUDSON. I should say to the gen- 
 tleman that those words have an important 
 meaning in that connection. If you strike 
 them out, the clause will read : 
 
 "And if a majority of the votes cast at such 
 election be in favor of such amendments they shall 
 become part of this Constitution." 
 
 That would require a majority of all the 
 votes cast, not oh this question alone, but at 
 that election. Now one half of the people 
 who voted, might not feel an interest in the 
 amendments and might not vote at all; so 
 that the votes cast in favor of the amend- 
 ments might not be a majority of the whole 
 number cast at that election, though it might 
 be a large majority of all those cast on that 
 particular subject; yet under such a pro- 
 vision the amendments would be defeated. 
 Now by leaving those words in, you provide 
 against that difficulty, and leave the amend- 
 ments to stand or fall upon their own merits. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. I move to amend by 
 striking out the whole section. I understand 
 that this first section gives to any legislature 
 the privilege, by a two third vote, to propose 
 amendments to the Constitution, which amend- 
 mcpts they may be called to vote upon every 
 year. I am in favor of striking out that sec- 
 tion, and leaving in the third section, with 
 some amendments. In my opinion, in about 
 five years the question should be submitted 
 to the people whether they are in favor of a 
 revision of the Constitution ; and if they de- 
 cide in the affinnative, then the Legislature 
 should make provision for calling a Conven- 
 tion. Although I have the utmost confidence 
 in the Legislature, I am disposed to leave it 
 to them only to propose amendments to the 
 Constitution, and have those amendments sub- 
 mitted to the voter§. In my judgment tliere 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Fbidat. ArcrsT T. 
 
 389 
 
 would be such amendments submitted aimogt 
 every year. A provision of that kind can be 
 added to the third section, and I therejfore 
 move to strike out section one. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 The amendment offered by Mr. PERKINS 
 was rejected. 
 
 Then, on motion of Mr.GALBRAITH, the 
 Committee rose and reported back the report 
 with the amendments, with a recommendati<Hi 
 that the amendments be concurred in. 
 
 The question was then put upon the amend- 
 ments recommended by the Committee of the 
 Whole, and they were severally concurred in. 
 
 Mr. HARDING moved to amend the first 
 section by striking out the word "people" in 
 the sixth line, and inserting in lieu thereof 
 the word "electors." 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move that section two 
 be stricken out. 
 
 The motic«i was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. SHELDON. I move to amend by in- 
 serting the following for section two : 
 
 "Whenever two-thirds of the members of both 
 branches of the Legislatnre shall deem it expedient 
 to revise this Constitution, they shall reconmiend 
 to the electors of the State to vote at the next 
 election for members of the Legislature, for or 
 against a CouTention: and if a majority of the 
 Toters at such an election shall have voted for a 
 Convention, the Legislature shall at their next 
 session provide by law for calling the same." 
 
 Mr. COLBOIN. I do not see the neces- 
 sity for a section of that kind. It will be ob- 
 served that section three provides that in the 
 year 1870, and every twenty years thereafter, 
 the question of a revision is to be submitted 
 to the people. I believe if the people adopt 
 this Constitution they will be satisfied, without 
 another Convention, for thirteen years. I 
 think after we provide for submitting the ques- 
 tion of a revision every twenty years, that 
 the provision by which the Legislature may 
 submit amendments to the people from time 
 to time, as circumstances may require, is all 
 that is necessary. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. So far as I am con- 
 cerned I am decidedly in favor of the amend- 
 ment, and I believe that is all that is necessary 
 in regard to this subject of amending the Con- 
 stitution in any way, shape or manner. The 
 idea of allowing the Legislature to propose 
 amendments, is the Massachusetts plan I 
 
 ! believe. 1 do not regard it as the best plan, 
 whether it originated in Massachusetts or any 
 where else. So fer as I am concerned, I am 
 in favor of having a Convention called, and 
 
 ; such amendments considered, as the members 
 
 composing that Convention, see fit to offer. I 
 
 [ am in favor of leaving the whole matter in 
 
 i 
 
 ; the shape in which the amendment would 
 
 i leave it. 
 
 ' Mr. COLBURN. I think, myself, that it 
 
 t is very proper that the Legislature should be 
 
 i allowed to propose amendments. It may 
 
 happen that some slight amendment to the 
 
 Constitution may be necessary. It would 
 
 not be worth while to call a Constitutional 
 
 Convention to make such amendment, as 
 
 [ it may be one about which there is no great 
 
 ; difference of opinion and one which could be 
 
 ' easily settled. Some amendments to the 
 
 Constitution of ilassachusetts, have been 
 
 : adopted, upon which there was great unanim- 
 
 • ity of opinion. They were propose in the 
 
 ■ Legislature, passed by two successive Legis- 
 
 ! latures, and then submitted to the people. 
 
 By that course they saved the whole expense 
 
 ; of a Constitutional Convention. 
 
 I 
 
 Then, if after that, the people become sat- 
 
 j isfied that they want a general revision of the 
 
 ! Constitution, and more extensive alterations 
 
 tban can be had through the Legislature, they 
 
 may call a Convention, and incur the expense 
 
 of having the work more thoroughly done. 
 
 The question recinring on Mr. Sheldon's 
 amendment — 
 
 Mt. COLBURN called for the yeas and 
 nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were not ordered. 
 
 The amendment was then adopted. 
 
 Mr. SHELDON. 1 move to amend section 
 third by adding thereto the following: 
 
 '* ]^ut no amendment of this Constitution agreed 
 upon by any Convention assembled in pursuance 
 of this article shall take eflect until the same shall 
 have been submitted to the electors of the State 
 and adopted by a majority of those voting 
 thereon." 
 
 Mr. KING. I would inform the gentleman 
 that section three does not provide for any 
 amendment of the Constitution. It provides 
 only for a revision of it. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. Section firet provides for 
 that. 
 
 Mr. SHELDON. I suppose a revision and 
 
390 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, August 7. 
 
 an amendment of the Constitution are the 
 same thing, and that a revision shall be sub- 
 mitted to the people before it becomes perma- 
 nent. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I move to amend 
 section one by inserting before the word 
 "amendments" in line eight, the words 
 *' amendment or." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS offered the following substi- 
 tute for the whole report : 
 
 "Any amendment or amendments to this Con- 
 stitution may be proposed in the Senate and 
 House of Representatives ; and if the same shall 
 be agreed to by a majority of the members elected 
 to each of the two Houses, such proposed amend- 
 ment or amendments shall be entered on their 
 journals with the yeas and nays taken thereon, 
 and referred to the Legislature to be chosen at the 
 next general election of Senators, and shall be 
 published for three months previous to the time 
 of making such choice; and if in the Legislature 
 so next chosen, as aforesaid, such proposed 
 amendment or amendments shall be agreed to by a 
 majority of all the members elected to each House, 
 then it shall be the duty of the Legislature to sub- 
 mit such proposed amendment or amendments to 
 the people, in such manner and at such time as the 
 Legislature may prescribe; and if the people shall 
 approve and ratify such amendment or amend- 
 ments, by a majority of the electors qualified to 
 vote for members of the Legislature, voting 
 thereon, such amendment or amendments shall 
 become part of the Constitution. 
 
 " At the general election to be held in the year 
 1870 and in each twentieth year thereafter, and 
 also at such time as the Legislature may by law 
 provide, the question 'Shall there be a Convention 
 to revise the Constitution and amend the same?' 
 shall be decided by the electors qualified to vote 
 for members of the Legislature ; and in case a 
 majority of the electors so qualified, voting at such 
 election, shall decide in favor of a Convention for 
 Buch purpose, the Legislature, at its next session, 
 shall provide by law for the election of delegates 
 lo such Convention." 
 
 Mr, HUDSON. It will be seen very plainly 
 that it will take some time to secure an 
 amendment to the Constitution in that man- 
 ner. In the first place the amendment must 
 be proposed, and it must be submitted to the 
 people at the next general election of Sena- 
 tors, which might not be in two years, Sena- 
 tors being elected for two years, and hence it 
 would be a long time before it could be 
 secured. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I presume Senators will 
 
 be elected every year. If not, the substitute 
 may be amended so as to bring the matter 
 before the Legislature chosen next after the 
 amendments are proposed. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I would rather see the sub- 
 stitute stand as it is. Then we shall have the 
 action of two Legislatures upon it. This calling 
 Conventions and proposing amendments to 
 the Constitution too hastily is not well. I do 
 not think any thing will be lost by delay. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I move to amend the 
 substitute, so as to provide for a revision of 
 the Constitution every ten years, instead of 
 twenty. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I suggest that the vote 
 be first taken upon the adoption of the sub- 
 stitute. If it is rejected, we save the labor 
 of making amendments to it. If it is adop- 
 ted, we can then make amendments to it. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I withdraw my amend- 
 ment. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I believe the substitute 
 provides for a revision every twenty years, 
 and at such other times as the Legislature 
 may by law provide. That obviates the 
 necessity of the amendment proposed by the 
 gentleman from Dodge. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. It seems to me that it 
 would be well for the mover of the substitute 
 to modify it, so as to strike out the words 
 "next general election of Senators" and 
 insert in lieu thereof, " next election of mem- 
 bers of the House of Representatives." 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I accept of the modifi- 
 cation suggested. 
 
 The substitute was then adopted. 
 
 The report was then ordered to be en- 
 grossed for a third reading. 
 
 OFFICIAL SALARIES. 
 
 On motion of Mr. CLEGHORN, the Con- 
 vention resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole (Mr. Robdins in the Chair) upon the 
 report of the committee upon olficial salaries. 
 
 The report was read as follows : 
 
 "That as many, if not nl! other reports, in 
 which there is reference made to State officers, 
 have provided for the compensation of the same 
 by leaving it to the Legislature. 
 
 " Wo would therefore merely recommend : 
 
 " That all salaries of State officers shall be affixed 
 by the State Legislature at its first session. With 
 this recommendation your committee would re- 
 spectfully ask that they may be disciiarged." 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I think it is wcU 
 
MINNESOTA COISfVENTION DEBATES— Satubday, August 8. 
 
 891 
 
 enough to allow the first Legislature to fix 
 the salaries of State officers, but I do not see 
 what action can be taken upon this report. 
 What can we act upon; what is there to 
 adopt ? 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. Amendments will be 
 in order. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. There is nothing to 
 amend. 
 
 Mr. WILSON offered the following substi- 
 tute for the whole report : 
 
 " Sec. 1. The Legislature shall fix the salary 
 of every ofBcer whose salary is not fixed by this 
 Constitution." 
 
 The substitute was adopted. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. KING, the 
 committee rose and reported the substitute to 
 the Convention, with a recommendation that 
 it be adopted. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move that the report 
 be referred to the committee upon Miscella- 
 neous Provisions. It seems hardly necessary 
 to put this as a separate article in the Consti- 
 tution, containing so little. It may properly 
 be placed in the article containing miscella- 
 neous provisions. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. I am opposed to that, I 
 want to see something put in this Constitu- 
 tion, which has but little in it. (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I would inquire if it is in the 
 Massachusetts Constitution ? (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. WILSON. The committee on Ar- 
 rangement and Phraseology will put this ar- 
 ticle where they think proper. 
 
 Mr. Colbubn's motion was not agreed to. 
 
 The report of the Committee of the Whole 
 was concurred in, and the substitute for the 
 report adopted. 
 
 Mr. HARDING moved that the report be 
 ordered to be engrossed for a third reading. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. HARDING moved (at five o'clock and 
 twenty minutes,) that the Convention adjourn. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Before that motion is put, 
 I wish to give notice of a resolution I intend 
 to offer ; and it is this : that the question as 
 to wh|^t boundary shall be adopted as the 
 boundaries of the State of Minnesota, shall be 
 submitted to the people as an independent 
 proposition at the same election at which they 
 vote upon this Constitution. I do not intend, 
 when I introduce that resolution, to argue it, 
 and I give this notice that every member may 
 
 make up his mind so that they can vote with- 
 out discussion. But if others should argue 
 it, of course I shall do so. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I object to the ser- 
 vice of notice, for the reason that it is not in 
 writing. (Laughter.) 
 
 And thereupon the Convention adjourned. 
 
 TWENTY-FOURTH DAY. 
 
 Satukday, August 8th, 1857. 
 The Convention met at 9 o'clock, a. m. 
 The journal of yesterday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 ELECTIVE FBAh'CHISE. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE moved that the Convention 
 take up for consideration the report of the 
 committee upon the Elective Franchise. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the report 
 was taken from the table and reported to the 
 Convention for its action. 
 
 The question being on the first section — 
 
 Mr. KING offered the following substitute 
 for the whole report : 
 
 " Sec. 1. Every white male inhabitant of the 
 age of twenty-one years and upwards, who shall 
 have resided in the State six months, and in the 
 town, ward, or precinct, in which he may claim the 
 right to vote, ten days next preceding any elec- 
 tion, shall be entitled to vote at the said election ; 
 
 " Providid, He be a citizen of the United States ; 
 or, 
 
 " Provided further, He has resided within the 
 United States two years, and filed his intention of 
 becoming a citizen in conformity with the laws of 
 naturalization of the United States; 
 
 " Provided further, That a minor, foreign-born, 
 whose parents have been naturalized, shall be 
 deemed an elector at twenty-one. 
 
 " Sec. 2. It shall be the duty of the Legisla- 
 ture at its first session to pass a registry law fully 
 adequate in all its parts to preserve the purity of 
 the ballot-box. 
 
 " Sec. 3. No person shall be a qualified voter 
 at any election who shall be convicted of treason, 
 felony, illegal voting, or who shall induce others to 
 vote illegally. The Legislature shall have power 
 to restore such persons to civil rights. 
 
 "Sec. 4. Residence- shall not be impaired by 
 absence on business of this State, or of the United 
 States; but no soldier, seaman, or marine, in the 
 army or navy of the United States, shall be deemed 
 a resident of this State in consequence of being 
 stationed within its limits." 
 
392 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— S^tobdat, August 8. 
 
 The substitute was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I move to amend the first 
 section, in line ten, by inserting after the word 
 "Constitution," the words, "or if he be a 
 " civilized person of Indian descent, not a 
 " member of any tribe." 
 
 I hope the members of this Convention will 
 reconsider any determination they have here- 
 tofore had to exclude so large a class of the 
 present voting population of this Territory 
 from any future exercise of the Elective Fran- 
 chise. It seems to me as if here was a 
 strange union of opposite extremes to do rank 
 injustice to a large and intelligent class of om* 
 population who are quite as well qualified to 
 exercise the right of suffrage as many men 
 upon this floor. I find, on the one hand, 
 those who are actuated by feelings of preju- 
 dice against, or distrust of, those called half- 
 breeds ; I find those who object to Indians 
 voting from some feeling of natural, so to 
 speak, antagonism; and I find that class uni- 
 ting with another class, who, upon this floor, 
 proclaim that they particularly are actuated 
 by principle, aside from policy. 
 
 When I see the union of the class of preju- 
 dice, with the class of principle, I regard it as 
 something remarkable ; and I look around to 
 see what can be the reason for such a con- 
 junction of elements. I can understand, 
 perhaps, why those actuated by prejudice 
 should vote against this matter ; but why, on 
 the other hand, those who claim to be supe- 
 rior on the score of principle, should do so, 
 is more than I can understand. Sir, they 
 say that the negro, who Is far distant from us, 
 and who, locally, does not come in contact 
 with us, must have the right to vote ; that it 
 is rank injustice to deprive him of that right, 
 and that humanity, everywhere, should be 
 entitled to the same privileges. But when 
 they have an opportunity to carry out that 
 portion of their faith, an opportunity to 
 award to a large class of our population those 
 rights which they contend belong to humanity, 
 they say : " No, if we cannot do justice to all, 
 " we will not do justice to any." That seems 
 to be the broad position taken upon this floor. 
 I did not expect to see any of those men 
 advance the doctrine promulgated by the old 
 Jesuits — do evil that good may come ; the 
 end justifies the means. What is the end 
 which is to justify such means ? I have heard 
 
 it whispered around that if you admit persons 
 of mixed Indian blood to vote you take away 
 the prospect, at some future time, of securing 
 to persons of mixed African blood the same 
 right; that if you place them both in the 
 same category you have a better chance here- 
 after, to secure the right to mixed African 
 blood. That is the Jesuit maxim — " do evil 
 that good may come." These men will 
 trample down one portion of our population, 
 because another portion cannot get their 
 rights. I am for justice to all humanity, as 
 fast as it can be accomplished, and whenever 
 the opportunity offers. If I cannot do it all 
 at once, I will do it piece-meals, and I am not 
 going to risk a great good by attempting to 
 go to fast. Now here is such an opportunity. 
 No doubt the people are willing and ready to 
 admit those half-breeds of Indian descent, to 
 vote. You find men of the highest culture 
 among that class. In towns below here, you 
 find those men owning large and valuable 
 tracts of country ; and even in sight of this 
 Capitol, magnificent residences are owned by 
 men of that class, who are as high-minded as 
 any among the whites. Now, I say that 
 those men professing to act upon principle are 
 not justified in the course they take upon this 
 floor. If yOu leave out of the Constitution a 
 provision of this kind, you array against us 
 an amount of wealth and influence which it 
 is worth whDe to calculate upon. Of the 
 class who act from prejudice or policy, I want 
 to know how they can justify themselves 
 before the people for refusing to grant the 
 pi'ivilege to that class of our population, who, 
 you admit at once, have the rights of men ? 
 You will have to throw yourselves back upon 
 the ground of expediency, thinking that in 
 your future battles for rights, the cause of 
 both together would be stronger than that of 
 one alone. 
 
 Now I feel upon this subject, because 1 
 tliink we do an injustice for wliich there is 
 now a remedy, and because it is bad policy, 
 if we wish our Constitution adopted. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I did not intend to make 
 another remark upon this subject, but I must 
 say tliat if ever I have known a person to 
 raise a man of straw and kick it over himself, 
 that man is my friend ticross the wa}', (Mr. 
 Foster.) Perhaps I said as much in regard 
 to principle as any other man, and I have 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satuedat, August 8. 
 
 393 
 
 been in favor, from" the first, of granting to 
 half-breeds the right to vote. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I did not refer to tlmt 
 gentleman. 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I am for equal rights. 
 Mr. PERKINS. As I happened to be one 
 of the small minority in the Convention 
 that declared themselves in favor of free- 
 suffrage, and as the imputation is cast very 
 freely, this morning, upon us, of being in 
 favor of negro suffrage exclusively, I have to 
 say here, that I think this intense sympathy 
 for half-breeds, and the imputation of exclu- 
 siveness, comes with ill grace from men who 
 oppose with all their might the idea of free 
 suffrage being contained in the Constitution 
 of the United States. 
 
 While I am in favor of negro suffrage, I 
 am in favor of allowing half-breeds to vote, 
 and I do not know of anybody who takes a 
 position against it. I cei-tainly have not made 
 any such declaration of principle upon this 
 floor. My coUeage from Rice county, (Mr. 
 Nobth) was not able to see, and I am not 
 able to see why the mulatto ought not to be 
 entitled to the privilege of the elective fran- 
 chise as much as the Indian half-breeds — that 
 is, why the blood descending from the first 
 families of Virginia in negro veins, was not 
 as much entitled to representation in the Legis- 
 lature, or to the elective franchise, as tliat of 
 the Uquor dealers, gamblers, and traders in 
 the veins of the half-breeds of this Territory. 
 Now if anybody can point out the reason why 
 it ought not to be, I will go in for excluding 
 the mulatto, and in favor of the half-breeds. 
 Mr. MANTOR. I do not know but I am 
 one of those unfortunate men who have had 
 imputations cast upon them, simply because 
 we do not all see exactly alike upon all ques- 
 tions before this Convention. 
 
 Now, sir, day before yesterday, under very 
 distressing physical prostration, I stood upon 
 this floor and vindicated equal suffrage. Yes- 
 terday the same question was brought before 
 this Convention again, and it was advocated 
 ably by gentlemen upon this floor. The 
 question was tabled last evening, and there 
 our work ended. Yesterday when the sub- 
 ject was under discussion, I found myself 
 once upon this floor voting against a proposi- 
 tion made by my friend from Steele county, 
 (Mr. Coggswell) ; and why did I vote against 
 50 
 
 it? Not simpiy because the word " Indian,'' 
 or " half-breed," was inserted in that amend- 
 ment, but because I saw many objections to 
 it, besides those which grew out of the propo- 
 sition to give the half-breed the right to vote. 
 And, sir, I cannot but think to-day, that 
 these imputations come with very bad grace 
 from men upon this floor who advocate the 
 rights of a class of men who have roamed 
 over our Territory for a thousand years, and 
 in the next breath put their veto upon the 
 rights of men who happen to come from 
 Africa. 
 
 I am one of the unfortunate fifteen or six- 
 teen who stood upon this floor, day before 
 yesterday, and advocated equal suffrage to 
 all, and I want it now and forever distinctly 
 understood, that I am in favor of equal suf- 
 frage, and shall vote for it every time. But, 
 until such a proposition can be brought be- 
 fore this Convention in reference to half-breeds 
 as shall meet my candid approbation, and 
 which shall not be liable to objection after ob- 
 jection on other grounds, I shall vote directly 
 against it. I consider that it is my right to 
 do so. Although I am in iavor of letting 
 the half-breeds vote, I shall be found voting 
 against any such propositions as were made 
 here yesterday by some gentlemen. These 
 imputations are thrown out for the very- 
 reason that some gentlemen stood up here and 
 voted against those propositions yesterday, 
 who the day before stood here and advocated 
 the right of equal suffrage. And I am utterly 
 astonished to see gentlemen who are so di- 
 rectly opposed to free suffrage, stand up here 
 and advocate partial suffrage, and especially 
 to that class of men, who, though their feel- 
 ings are in unison with ours, yet do not 
 possess that entire white blood which we have 
 in this Convention. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I am opposed to the 
 amendment, and it is but justice to myself 
 that I explain my position, and give the rea- 
 sons why I have advocated the principle of 
 universal suffrage. I fully believe in and 
 heartily endorse the doctrine contained in the 
 amendment to strike out the word " white" 
 from this Constitution. I believe the right of suf- 
 frage should be extended to all, but when gen- 
 tlemen who approve that doctrine, and would 
 have it read " every white male inhabitant" 
 come here and ask to modify that doctrine and 
 
894 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 8. 
 
 allow a part of the colored races to vote, I 
 consider it as heaping injustice upon a certain 
 class that we have already trodden beneath 
 our feet. "We say that the descendants of 
 one of those races — the Indian — shall have 
 the right to vote, and we will grant that with- 
 out submitting it to a vote of the people ; and 
 we say that the other — the negro — shall not 
 have the right, but we will submit it to the 
 people. Why this partiality ? WhUe I am 
 decidedly in favor of equal sufFcage, I am not 
 willing to acknowledge that I act^ upon any 
 such partial principle. 
 
 Mr. MESSER. Since almost all who spoke 
 in favor of equal suffrage when this matter 
 first came before us have seen fit to say a 
 word in explanation, I will make one remark. 
 The first amendment made in committee of 
 the Whole was to strike out the word 
 " white." I offered that amendment, and I 
 did it from principle and because I believed 
 in universal suffrage — not that I had any par- 
 ticular partiality for the negro race or for any 
 other colored race. I planted myself upon 
 the broad platform of human rights. 
 
 In regard to the particular matter under 
 consideration, I certainly shall riot vote against 
 extending the privilege of voting to the half- 
 breed Indians of this Territory, Now I can 
 see reasons why the half-breeds should have 
 that privilege, over and above, if I may so 
 express myself, the reasons why the half- 
 breed negroes should have the right to vote. 
 I stand upon the broad platform that they 
 should all have the right to vote when they 
 become citizens. There are hundreds of half- 
 breed Indians who are identified with the his- 
 tory of this Territory and who were here 
 years and years before the white men settled 
 here in any numbers, and it seems to me that 
 they should not be deprived of the right of 
 voting here. 
 
 Therefore, although, as I said, I have no 
 partici lar preference for the one over the 
 other — for the Indian half-breed, over the ne- 
 gro half-breed— I shall upon the principle of 
 universal suffrage, vote in favor of the Indian 
 half-breeds. But I desire to see some res- 
 trictions placed upon that right which should 
 prevent the frauds which have heretofore been 
 perpetrated under color of that right. 
 
 Mr. BOBBINS. Since the discussion of 
 this question commenced it has been my mis- 
 
 fortune to be so ill as not to be able to listen 
 to it. I should like to have heard the opin- 
 ions of every gentleman in this Convention 
 up>n this subject. I feel that I have lost 
 much. Equal suffrage, apart from negro or 
 half-breed suffrage, is as dear to me as to any 
 other man, and I would go to as great lengths 
 as any man in giving to every class of colored 
 persons an equal right at the ballot box. I 
 do not believe that color is the true criterion 
 of safeguards to be thrown around our right 
 of elective franchise. Color is a poor crite- 
 rion by which to judge of a man's intellect. 
 It seems to me that because a man is a mu- 
 latto, a negro, an Irishman, or a foreigner, is 
 no reason why he should be excluded from 
 the ballot box. A man should have a certain 
 degree of intelligence before he is permitted 
 to vote. And knowledge is the only ground 
 upon which equal suffrage should be given. 
 
 Let us see how this question has been 
 managed from the beginning. 'J'his subject 
 was brought up in a caucus meeting of the 
 members of this body, and each man's opin- 
 ion was asked upon it. I told the caucus that 
 I was in favor of equal suffrage. I told them 
 that the more I thought upon the question 
 the more I thought there was a principle in- 
 volved, and that the only way to settle the 
 matter to the satisfaction of every one was to 
 leave the word " white" out of the Constitu- 
 tion, and to submit the question to the people, 
 and let them vote to put it in. 
 
 I have thought upon this matter a longtime, 
 and although I have not had the pleasure of 
 listening to the arguments of gentlemen, I 
 share in the approbrium, if any there is, cast 
 upon those who having expressed their opin- 
 ion upon the subject, have seen fit to change 
 their minds as to the proper course to be pur- 
 sued. If there is a principle involved on the 
 one side, there is a principle involved on the 
 other. If it is not a violation of principles to 
 allow the people to vote in the word " white," 
 it is not a violation of principles to allow thera 
 to vote out the word " white." Now having 
 thought much upon the subject, I have come 
 to the much abused doctrine of expediency, 
 and I do believe, when a principle is not com- 
 promised, men have a right to change. I do 
 not believe that party considerations should 
 be brought here, to govern our action ; but, 
 as one gentleman said the other day, our 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— SATrKO ay, ArorsT 8. 
 
 S95 
 
 action here will be taken as the action of a 
 party; and, believing that, we should study 
 the interest of that party, when we do not 
 confiict with principle in so doing. Tak- 
 ing that view of the subject, I believe it is 
 good policy, and indeed the only policy on 
 which we can sustain ourselves before the 
 people — at least in my section of the county 
 — to put the word " white" into the Consti- 
 tution, and let the people vote it out if they 
 will. And 1 pledge myself in this Convention, 
 when our Constitution comes before the peo- 
 ple, to use my utmost endeavors to have them 
 vote it out. 
 
 These are the grounds upon which I have 
 changed my opinion as to the proper course 
 to pursue, and with my position I feel per- 
 fectly sati>fied. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I move to amend the 
 amendment offered by the gentleman from 
 Dakota (Mr. Foster) by inserting the words 
 •' or African " after the word ''Indians" so 
 tliat it shall read '' or if he be a civilized per- 
 '' son of Indian or African descent, not a mem- 
 •' ber of any tribe." 
 
 I have been confined to my room from 
 indisposition for the last two or three days, 
 and have not taken any part in this discus- 
 sion. I propose to put my views upon this 
 subject in writing and present them to the 
 Convention, and content myself, at this time, 
 with recording my vote. The principles 1 
 maintain now are the same as they were 
 when this subject first arose in caucus. I 
 have not changed my views of right, and 
 hence have no views to change as to pol- 
 icy. If a person of color, being civilized, 
 has a right to vote, I care not whether he be- 
 longs to an Indian tribe or to the African 
 race. So far as civilization is concerned, the 
 education of the Indian, if he have any, ma}' 
 be quite as well questioned, to my mind, as 
 the education of the African. The little edu- 
 cation the African has, is all American. He 
 is American bom, and reared among Ameri- 
 can statesmen, and what he does know of civ- 
 ilization is American civilization. He has, in 
 every view of the case, preeminent right over 
 the Indian who has never taken to himself 
 the habits and customs of the whites. I ob- 
 ject in most unqualified terms, that we, as 
 Republicans or Minnesotians, should at this, 
 or any other time, prosciibe any man from 
 
 ' the full rights of a citizen on account of color, 
 ; or birth place. I believe that to be anti-Re- 
 j publican, and anti- American, and upon this 
 I rock I believe, we as a people are to split 
 { Rather than do that wrong, I would say, 
 were it left to me, let our Constitution be 
 rejected, and let the Republicans of Minne- 
 sota of 1857 receive a check from the people, 
 which will learn them, in after time, to study 
 the rights of all, and carry into practice what 
 we have so long argued as principle ; which 
 we have set forth in our Bill of Rights, and 
 inscribed upon our seal. Let us be true to 
 the right, and to the age in which we live; 
 true to our former declarations, and the peo- 
 j pie will be true to us. If the people are not 
 prepared for this, let us prepare them, and 
 I let us not ask them to put us forward upon 
 the vantage ground. If the principle is not 
 right, let us change our declaration of 
 : rights, and say that all persons are not 
 '■ bom with certain inalienable rights ; that all 
 are not bom free and equal ; ard let us take 
 from our seal the motto we adopted. Let us 
 be consistent with ourselves, and all the time, 
 and not for one purpose aflBrm a thing, and 
 for another disaflBnn it. 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I do not propose to 
 ; discuss this question, but I rise simply to ask 
 the gentleman if he will not withdraw his 
 amendment. The question has been dis- 
 cussed two days at length — or rather, it has 
 ; been discussed at length upon his side. Four 
 long, set speeches have been delivered upon 
 that question, and it has probably been pre- 
 sented by the gentleman from Rice county 
 (Me. North) in as good a light as it po.ssibly 
 I could be. A vote was taken upon the ques- 
 • tion, and there were two votes to one against 
 , striking out the word " white." Since that 
 ' time the question has again been raised by 
 ■ those who believe as he does and it was dis 
 i cussed at length a second time, and agiiin the 
 , Convention refused to strike out the word 
 ' '* white " by a large majority. 
 I Now I aok the gentleman, whether, under 
 : the circumstances, he is determined to crowd 
 i this question upon us every day after it has 
 : been decided time and again ? It does seem 
 to me a little strange, that gentleman who are 
 I anxious to proceed with our business with so 
 { much speed, should take up so much time 
 ; with a question which has been settled by 
 
S98 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satcbdat, August 8. 
 
 the Convention. Is it supposed that any 
 gentleman will change his vote upon the ques- 
 tion ? None can suppose that. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. The gentleman presumes 
 that persons once wrong are always wrong. 
 As I have not been present, I do not know 
 how long the question has been discussed. 
 As I said before, I wish the unanimous con- 
 sent of the Convention, to give my views to 
 the reporter, and thereby save taldng up the 
 time of the Convention in giving my views at 
 length here. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I am perfectly willing 
 to hear a speech upon this or any other ques- 
 tion, but I really object to going back half a 
 dozen times and bringing up a question which 
 has been settled. If the gentleman wants to 
 make a speech upon his side other gentlemen 
 will want to reply. Now I appeal to those 
 gentlemen who agree with the gentleman who 
 has offered the amendment, whether they will 
 not desist from pressing this subject upon us 
 time after time, when it has already been 
 twice decided ? I beg gentlemen not to thus 
 detain us day after day. If the gentleman 
 will write out his speech, I will vote to have 
 it go upon the record of details, just as though 
 he had delivered it. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I never take anything 
 by courtesy. All I ask is a matter of right. 
 If it be not my privilege, I ask it not. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Well, I rise to a question 
 of order, and it is whether that amendment 
 is in order. It is the same question which 
 has been discussed and already decided twice 
 in this Convention. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. 1 would say that I 
 do know, that the gentleman from Fillmore 
 (Mr. Billings) has been confined to his room 
 by illness, and has not had an opportunity to 
 express his views upon this question ; and I, 
 for one, am decidedly in favor of allowing 
 every man to express his sentiments upon all 
 and every subject. I never did belong to the 
 gag clan. I want every man to free his 
 mind, and to deliver himself in the best man- 
 ner he possibly can ; and if the gentleman 
 from Fillmore has any views to submit either 
 to his constituents or to this Convention, I 
 am decidedly in favor of hearing them. 
 
 It is true, this question has been substan- 
 tially settled, as stated by the gentleman from 
 Winona. It is true, too, that it has been sub- 
 
 stantially settled by this Convention, that 
 citizens of the United States shall not have 
 the right to vote. (Laughter.) It is true, 
 too, that it has been settled here, that foreign- 
 ers shall not vote ; and it is true, too, that I 
 stand here in favor of the amendment to the 
 amendment, for the reason that I want some- 
 body to vote, (laughter,) and that I am wil- 
 ling, if we cannot have citizens of the United 
 States vote, that half-breed Indians and ne- 
 groes shall. I want somebody to vote for cer- 
 tain men to pass laws, to govern and control 
 us — and the half-breeds have controlled us so 
 far, and have done it pretty well — and now I 
 want the negroes to come in and help them. 
 Then I think we shall be perfectly safe. 
 These are the reasons which induce me to go 
 for the amendment to the amendment, al- 
 though those questions have been settled to 
 the same extent that the amendment to strike 
 out the word " white" has been. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I withdraw my objection. 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I withdraw my objec- 
 tion, and at the same time give notice that I 
 shall make a speech upon the subject myself. 
 And I call upon every one of our friends, 
 who have advocated the policy we have adopt- 
 ed, to make speeches also, and let us have a 
 good time over it. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I do not wish to occupy 
 the time of the Convention. I have been as 
 anxious as any gentleman in this Convention 
 to close our labors at the earliest possible day. 
 Indeed, I have already a resolution before me, 
 which I intended to offer, to close our pro- 
 ceedings upon a particular day. But if we 
 can induce the gentleman from Winona, (Mr. 
 Balcombe,) and other gentlemen, who take 
 the same position he does, to come out and 
 put their views and sentiments on this sub- 
 ject, upon the record, T am willing to sit here 
 another month. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Who does not know 
 that my views are upon the record ? I as- 
 sure gentlemen that I am willing to give them 
 my views and put them, with my vote, upon 
 the record from this until doomsday. 
 
 The gentleman who has offered this amend- 
 ment was not here during the debate. I am 
 willing to let him speak, for it is right that he 
 should do so. But while I am in favor of 
 that, I do protest against men raising the 
 same question day after day, and intermina- 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Satckday, August 8. 
 
 397 
 
 ably, after it has been once and tvnce settled. 
 When men have in sight twelve good things 
 which they can do, and a million good things 
 which they carniot do, I protest, that because 
 they cannot do them all at once, they will re- 
 fuse to do any. 
 
 Mr. COLBURX. I deem it my duty to 
 state that I do not understand that the gen- 
 tleman from Scott county (Mr. Galbraith,) 
 has defined his position upon the amendment 
 introduced by the gentleman from Dakota 
 county. I had reference to that. I did not 
 i-equest him to define his position upon the 
 negro question, for he did that the other day. 
 I wanted his position upon the question raised 
 by the gentleman from Dakota, and I wanted 
 to know how his position upon those two 
 questions correspond. I understand the gen- 
 tleman's position upon the negro suffrage 
 question to be, that negroes are not qualified 
 to Tote, and were not qualified to be raised to 
 a social position equal to the whites. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. No such thing; that 
 is another of those contemptibJe misrepresen- 
 tations. (" Order ;'' Order.") It has been 
 stated here, time and again, that I advocated 
 that doctrine. It is not so. I said that gen- 
 tlemen should be consistent with themselves, 
 and consistent with their OMm doctrine. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I do not wish to misrep- 
 resent the gentleman fix)m Scott county ; but 
 I desire to understand his views upon that 
 question ; and if I do misrepresent him, I re- 
 quest him to state his views again. I imder- 
 stood the position of tliat gentleman to be. 
 that we ought not to elevate the negro by ex- 
 tending to him political privileges, but by ex- 
 tending to him social privileges and rights ; 
 that we ought to raise him in social position 
 before we do in a political position. Is that 
 the gentleman's position ? 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I hope the gentleman 
 will go on and make his speech if he wants to 
 make one, and I will make mine when I get 
 ready. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. The gentleman, then, 
 does not deny that position ? 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I deny your right to 
 define my positioa for me. I can define sudi 
 positions as I desire, and can answer such 
 questions as I please. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I am sorry to raise any 
 excitement by my remarks. I have defined 
 
 the gentleman's position as I understood it. 
 I do understand such to be his position. 
 Now, sir, I believe that both the negro and 
 Indian should enjoy the right of suffrage. I 
 believe the negro should be as highly elevated 
 in social position as the Indian. I believe that 
 by extending the right of suff'rage to the In- 
 dian, you do elevate his social position just as 
 much, and just as fast, and justaseff"ectually, 
 as you do the negro by extending the right of 
 suff'rage to him. I believe, if there is any ob- 
 jection to this thing of amalgamation, you 
 will encovu^ge that practice, and extend it 
 just as effectually by extending the right of 
 suff'rage to the Indian, as you will by extend- 
 ing it to the negro. The white race will amal- 
 gamate with the Indian just as much as it 
 will with the negro, provided the circumstan- 
 ces are the same. My position is this ; if we 
 ought not to encourage amalgamation of ra- 
 ces, and if elevating them to political posi- 
 tions does encourage it, the gentleman firom 
 Scott county should be just as anxious to en- 
 courage amalgamation with Indians as with 
 negroes. While the gentleman makes a very 
 strong appeal not to cut off half-breeds be- 
 cause they own property around the Capitol 
 and elsewhere, will he pretend to say that 
 there are not mulattoes — men of respectabili- 
 ty, education and talent — who own property 
 here and elsewhere throughout the Territory ? 
 There is no argument in favor of the half-breeds, 
 but may be urged in favor of the negroes; 
 and I cannot understand how those who are 
 opposed to extending the right of suffrage to 
 the negroes, can advocate its extension to the 
 Indian. The same objections which are raised 
 against the negroes, can be raised with equal 
 force against the Indians. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I move the previous question. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. I hope it will not be sus- 
 tained, if the gentleman from Fillmore county 
 (Mr. Billings,) wants to speak. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I do not desire to speak 
 to-day. I merely ask the privilege of submit- 
 ting, in writing, to the reporter, my views 
 upon this question. My object in offering the 
 amendment to the amendment was to get a 
 vote of the Convention upon it, that I might 
 understand what the views of the Convention 
 were. I have no objection to having the vote 
 taken at once upon the amendment, for then 
 I shall have that information. 
 
398 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Sati-rdat, Acgtist 8. 
 
 The previous question was seconded, and 
 the main question ordered to be put. 
 
 The question recurring on Mr. Billings' 
 amendment. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS called for the yeas and 
 nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question bemg put there were yeas fifteen, 
 nays twenty-eight. 
 
 Teas. — Messrs. Aver, Billings, Cleghorn, Col- 
 bujn, Coombs. Hayden, Hudson, Holley, Man'or, 
 Me.<;ser, Phelps, Perkins, Putnam, Sheldon, Se- 
 combe. — 15. 
 
 jVai/s. — Messrs. Alarich, Bartholemew, Butler, 
 Coggswell, Cederstam, Duley, Dickerson, Eschlie, 
 Foster, Folsom, Galbraith, Harding, Hanson, King, 
 Lyle, Lowe, McCan, McKune, McClure, Morgan, 
 Mills, Murpliy, Robbins, Stannard, Vaughn, Wat- 
 son, Wilson, Mr. President. — 28, 
 
 So the amendment to the amendment was 
 rejected. 
 
 The question recurring upon the amend- 
 ment offered by Mr. Foster. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN called for the yeas and 
 nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being put, there were yeas twenty- 
 seven, nays fourteen, as follows : 
 
 J'ea«.— Messrs. Aldrich, Ayer, Bartholemew, Bil- 
 lings, Cleghorn, Colburn, Cederstam, Coombs, 
 Duley, Dickerson, Foster, Folsom, Hayden, Hard- 
 ing, Holley, Lyle, Lowe, Mantor, Messer, Morgan, 
 Phelps, Perkins, Putnam, Stannard, Sheldon, 
 Vaughn, Mr. President. — 27. 
 
 J\'ays. — Messrs. Butler, Coggswell, Eschlie, Gal- 
 braith, Hudson, Hanson, King, Mc an, McKune, 
 McClure, Murphy, Secombe, Watson, Wilson. — 14. 
 
 So the amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I propose the following 
 substitute for section one, as amended — not 
 intending thereby to change the matter of the 
 of the section, but only the form. 
 
 "Sec. 1. Any white male inhabitant, of the 
 age of 21 years and upwards, (excepting persons 
 under guardianship, and persons of unsound mind) 
 who shall have resided in the State six months, 
 and in the town, ward or precinct in which he may 
 claim the right to rote, lor ten days next preceding 
 any election, shall be entitled to vote at such elec- 
 tion, if he belong to either of the following classes, 
 to-wit : 
 
 " 1. Citizens of the United States. 
 
 " 2. Persons who have resided in the United 
 States two years next preceding the electioD at 
 which they tlien claim the right to vote. 
 
 " 8. PetsoDR who sliall be residents of the State 
 at the time of the adoption of this Constitution : 
 
 Procidtd always, tbut no person who is an alien 
 
 by birth, and not a citizen of the United States, 
 shall be a qualified elector, until he shall have de- 
 clared his intention to become a citizen in conform- 
 ity with the laws of the United States on the sub- 
 ject of naturalization." 
 
 The object of my amendment is to place the 
 matter in a more definite form. It does not 
 differ materially from the section as it now 
 stands, and I must say with all due deference 
 to the committee who drew up the provision 
 that it took me at least two days to determine 
 in my own mind just what it meant, and what 
 class of persons would be entitled to vote un- . 
 der it. Perhaps my mind is more obtuse than 
 that of others, and perhaps I look upon it in 
 a different light from what others do. My 
 proposition defines the class of persons who 
 are to be entitled to the elective franchise un- 
 der the third clause^ and it can be discovered 
 at a glance who they are. A provision of the 
 Constitution of so great importance, should 
 be put in the best possible language. I think 
 it does not interfere with the provis^ion of the 
 amendment just adopted. If I understand 
 that, it is, that civilized Indians not belonging 
 to any tribe shall have the right to vote. If 
 that is so, the term " alien " as used in the 
 substitute offered by myself does not include 
 such a person. I understand that there ijiay 
 be persons, who, while they are not citizens, 
 are not aliens. They may be some where 
 half way between ; and a civilized Indian not 
 belonging to any tribe, while he would not be 
 a citizen of the United States, yet might not 
 be an alien. If however it might be consid- 
 ered that it is not explicit enough, an amend- 
 ment might be made to except the class of 
 persons meant in the amendment, in terms 
 like the following: 
 
 " Except civilized Indians not belonging to any 
 tribe." 
 
 I hope a substitute substantially like the 
 one 1 have offered will be adopted, so as to 
 state specifically the class, who will have the 
 right to vote. " 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I hope the substitute will be 
 rejected. I think the provision as it now 
 stands is clear enough. If we go into a dassi- 
 lication there will be no end to it. It seems 
 to me we have had enough discussion about 
 suffrage, and I hope the Convention will vote 
 down this amendment and all others. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I would suggest to the 
 gentleman to modify his substitute by insert- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Sattbdat, Acgust 8. 
 
 ing after the words "United States" where ] allowed to vote, that it is the desire of the 
 it first occurs in the first clause the words \ people to have restrictions thrown around 
 
 " civilized persons of Indian descent and not ; 
 "members of any tribe, excepted.'' 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I ex-ept the modification 
 suggested by the gentleman from Dakota, ' 
 as it involves the principle just adopted by ' 
 
 the Convention. It will then read— i 
 
 I 
 " T/'iird— Persons who shall be residents of the ' 
 State at the time of the adoption of this Const i" , 
 tution. provided, always, that no person who is ; 
 an alien by birth, and not a citizen of the United • 
 States, (civilized persons of Indian descent, and , 
 not members of any tribe excepted) shall b« a ' 
 qualified elector, until he shall have declared his 1 
 intention to become a citizen of the United States, j 
 in conformity with the laws on naturalization." \ 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. If I understand the : 
 nature of that amendment, it requires that f 
 persons of Indian descent shall declare their j 
 intention to become citizens of the United i 
 States. 
 Mr. SECOMBE. They are excepted. 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. ViU the Clerk read , 
 it again. ; 
 
 Th3 clause was again reaH. , 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. So far as I am con- i 
 cerned, I am decidedly opposed to half-blood • 
 Indians, or half-breeds, or quarter-breeds, or j 
 any other kind of breeds voting, unless it is j 
 under restrictions which will fully provide 
 against abuses of that right. I do not pre- 
 tend to say that I am not opposed to allowing 
 full-blooded Indians, who can read and write 
 to vote ; but I am opposed to having the mat- 
 ter so arranged in our Constitution that that 
 right and that privilege can be abused. I ara 
 satisfied that it will be abused if it is couched 
 in the language of that substitute. I ,know 
 that in Wisconsin, under a clause substan- 
 tially like that, the right and privilege has 
 been abused, and I know of no reason why 
 we should not come to the conclusion that 
 the same will be the case here. 
 
 I voted against the amendment proposed 
 by the gentleman from Fillmore county (Mr. 
 Billings) in regard to negroes, for the reason 
 that I supposed the general understanding 
 was that there shall be a clause substantially 
 in the shape of a separate proposition, author- 
 izing negroes to vote, provided it is the wish 
 and desire of the people to allow them to do 
 so. I know, also, if thjse full-blooded civi- 
 lized Indians, and those half-breeds are 
 
 that right in such a manner as to prevent the 
 abuse of that right — to prevent fuU-bloooded 
 Indians, who have not adopted the habits and 
 customs of civilized life, and to prevent tho 
 full-blooded Indians, whose hands are now 
 reeking with the blood of the white man. from 
 controlling this Territory. I will not vote for 
 any amendment of that character, unless 
 those restrictions are provided for. 
 
 The question was taken on Mr. Secombe's 
 substitute, and it was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I move that the gentle- 
 man from Fillmore county (Mr. Billixrs) 
 have the privilege of putting his views of this 
 matter upon the record, by handing the same 
 to the reporter in writing. 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 Mr. McKUNE moved (at eleven o'clock 
 and thirty minutes) that the Convention 
 adjourn. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I move to amend the 
 first section by adding thereto the following 
 proviso : 
 
 " Provided, That no person shall at any time be 
 allowed to vote upon any proposition to impose a 
 tax, or for the expenditure of money, in any town 
 or city, unless he shall within the year next prece- 
 ding have paid a tax assi ssed upon property in 
 said town or city, valued at one hundred and fifty 
 dollars." 
 
 I wish simply to say that the proviso does 
 ; not restrict any man in votmg at the elec- 
 , tion of any ofiBoer of State, county, city or 
 i town. It simply prohibits a person having 
 \ no property, or property of only a very small 
 • amount, from voting to impose a tax upon the 
 ! property of his fellow-citizens, or for the 
 expenditure of any money raised by taxation. 
 ' [ do not see as any one can find fault with 
 ' that. 
 
 \ Mr. WILSON. Would it not exclude a poor 
 man from voting for school taxes ? A great 
 many who have not property of the amount 
 specified, have children to send to school, and 
 they feel a great interest in that matter. I 
 \ am not inclined to vote for anything that will 
 I exclude any man from voting for school taxes. 
 j If our schools were left to be controlled by 
 ! rich men, we should have no schools. 
 I Mr. ALDRICH. I wiU modify the amend- 
 ment, and except school taxes. 
 
400 
 
 MDTNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satubdat, AtJorsT 8. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I am opposed to the prin- 
 ciple of the whole thing. It looks too much 
 like property qualification, and will make a 
 bad impression. I take it that the aggregate 
 wealth of individuals is the aggregate wealth 
 of the State, and it is really the whole labor 
 and capital of the community that bears the 
 burdens of taxation. The poor man pays his 
 share of the tax ; taxes are included by the 
 landlord, in estimating his rents. It is like 
 entries paid in at the custom house. The 
 duty is really paid by the consumer, though 
 paid at the time by the importer. So it is as 
 to taxes upon property. Those who rent a 
 house, or a farm, in reality pay the taxes 
 upon that house or farm. I am opposed to it 
 upon principle, as well as upon policy. 
 
 Mr. CO LB URN. I hope the amendment 
 will not prevail. It smacks too much of prop- 
 erty qualification. I had hoped that nothing 
 of that kind would be incorporated into our 
 Constitution, in any way or form. As that 
 amendment certainly involves the principle of 
 property qualification, I cannot support it. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. As the amendment seems 
 to meet with great opposition, I will with- 
 draw it. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN moved to amend the first 
 section by adding the following proviso : 
 
 " Provided, also, that the Legislature may, atany 
 time, extend by law the right of suffrage to per- 
 sons not herein enumerated ; but no such law shalj 
 have any force until it shall have been submitted 
 to the people at some general election, and ap- 
 proved by a majority of all the votes cast at such 
 election." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. EOWE. I have an amendment which 
 was suggested by the remarks of the gentle- 
 man from Steele county (Mr. Coggswell). 
 I move to add to the first section the follow- 
 ing provision : 
 
 " Provided, That the right of persons of Indian 
 descent and of Indians who have assumed the 
 habits of civilized life, to exercise the right of 
 sufirage, shall be exercised under such regulations 
 as the Legislature may, from time to time ordain.' 
 
 The objection of the gentleman from Steele 
 County is entitled to much weight. It is no- 
 torious that the right of suffrage enjoyed by 
 Indians in this Territory is abused to an ex- 
 tent tliat requires it to be placed under pecu- 
 liar regulations. I therefore propose the 
 amen iment in order to place the right of suf- 
 frage, so far as the Indians arc concerned, 
 
 peculiarly under the control of the Legisla- 
 ture. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to, 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. As provision has now 
 been made in regard to Indian suflfrage, I 
 move to strike out section nine. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I would suggest that in 
 the amendment offered by the gentleman fi*om 
 Fillmore County (Mr. Cleghorn) there is an 
 omission of one or two words, which should 
 be supplied. It was no doubt intended by 
 the mover of that amendment that the law 
 should be " approved by a majority of all the 
 " votes cast on that mbject at such election." 
 The words "on that subject" are omitted. I 
 move to insert them. 
 
 The amendment was*agi'eed to. 
 
 The report was then ordered to be engrossed 
 for a third reading. 
 
 FINAL ADJOURNMENT. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN ofiFered the following reso- 
 lution : 
 
 " Pesolved, That this Convention adjourn with- 
 out day, on Thursday, the thirteenth instant." 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I suppose that resolution 
 lies upon the table for the day, under the 
 rule. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. If the gentleman dis- 
 cusses it. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. 1 think we are hardly 
 ready now to fix so early a day as that named 
 in the resolution. If we get away as early as 
 next Saturday, we shall do well. I tliink we 
 can fix upon the day of adjournment a day 
 or two before we get through, better than we 
 can now. 
 
 The resolution was laid over under the 
 rule. 
 
 And then on motion of Mr. HARDING, (at 
 twelve o'clock) the Convention then took a 
 recess until half past two. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention was called to order at half 
 past two o'clock. 
 
 JUDICIABV DEPARTMENT. 
 
 On motion of Mr. COLBURN, the Conven- 
 tion resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole, (Mr. Colburn in the Chair) upon the 
 report of the committee on the Judiciary De- 
 partment. 
 (For report see proceedings of August 5th. I 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satubdat, Adgcst 8. 
 
 401 
 
 The report was read by sections for amend 
 ment. 
 
 " Sectiox 1 . The court for the trial of impeach- 
 ments shall be composed of the Senate. The 
 House of Representatives shall hare the power of 
 impeaching all civil officers of this State for cor- 
 rupt conduct in office, or for crimes and misde- 
 meanors ; but a majority of all the members elec- 
 ted shall concur in such impeachment. On the 
 trial of an impeachment against the Governor, the 
 Lieutenant Governor shall not act as a member of 
 the court. Xo judical officer shall exercise his of- 
 fice after he shall have been impeached until his 
 acquittal. Before the trial of an impeachment the 
 members of the court shall take an oath or affir- 
 mation truly and impartially to try the impeach- 
 ment according to evidence, and no person shall be 
 convicted without the concurrence of two-thirds 
 of the members present. Judgment in case of im- 
 peachment shall not extent further than to removal 
 from office, or removal from office and disqualifi- 
 cation to hold any office of honor, profit or trust, 
 under the State ; but the party impeached shall be 
 liable to indictment, trial and ponishment accord- 
 ing to law." 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. I move to strike out section 
 one. The same subject matter is contained 
 in the report of the committee on Impeach- 
 ment and Removal from Office. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I would remark that this 
 report was prepared before the committee had 
 seen that report. For that reason they came 
 in confiict. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. 2. The judicial power of this State both 
 as to the matters of law and equity, shall be in- 
 vested in a supreme court, circuit colirts, probate 
 courts, and in justices of the peace. Municipal 
 courts of limited criminal and civil jurisdiction, may 
 also be established by the Legislature in cities; pro- 
 vided that municipal courts shall not have jurisdic- 
 tion in their respective municipalities to extend the 
 jurisdiction of circuit courts, in their respective 
 circuits. The judges of the municipal courts shall 
 be elected by the qualified electors of their res- 
 pective jurisdictions, and for a term not longer 
 than that of the judges of the circuit courts." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move to amend that 
 section by striking out the words " municipal 
 " courts of limited criminal and civil jurisdic- 
 " tion, may also be established by the Legis- 
 " lature ; provided, that the mvmicipal courts 
 " shall not have jurisdiction in their respective 
 "municipalities to exceed the jurisdiction of 
 " circuit courts in their respective cities," and 
 insert in lieu thereof, the words : 
 
 " And in such other courts of limited, civil and 
 criminal jurisdiction, as the Legislature may from 
 
 51 
 
 time to time establish ; provided, that the jurisdic- 
 tion of no such additional court shall exceed the 
 jurisdiction of the circuit courts in their respec- 
 tive circuits." 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I hope the amendment 
 will not prevail. It seems to me that the 
 language used in this section is unexceptioR- 
 able, and I do not believe it can be improved. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The language used is 
 very good for the purpose for which it is used. 
 It is very good language to authorize the es- 
 tablishment of municipal courts, and that 
 alone. If it is desirable to establish, or to 
 authorize the legislature to establish any 
 other courts than municipal courts, of course 
 it is not the right language. Now I myself 
 am in favor of county courts in some instan- 
 ces. It seems to me that the object of courts 
 is that the people may have speedy justice. 
 I presume there will not be to exceed six or 
 seven circuits in the State — perhaps not so 
 many as that. Consequently each circuit 
 will comprise a nxmiber of counties. I do 
 not know how many coimties there are in the 
 State, but there are a great many. And it 
 will be provided, either by this article or bv 
 law, that there shall be held in each county 
 of the circuit a certain number of court terms. 
 This very report provides that there shall be 
 held in each county of the Territory, two 
 terms of the circuit coiurt each year. Sup- 
 pose there should be held in each county two 
 temis, it would, from the necessity of the 
 case prevent the holding of more than two 
 terms. Consequently there would be six 
 months intervening between the terms. Now 
 there is a lai^ amoimt of business in tha 
 State, in cases involving a sum which is above 
 the ordinary amount over which a justice of 
 the peace has jurisdiction — between the simis 
 of one and five hundred dollars — and it is 
 very desirable that suits of that nature should 
 be disposed of with speed. Now I would be 
 in favor, under certain circumstances, of 
 authorizing a county to establish a county 
 court which might have terms held once in 
 two or three months, or even once a month 
 with jury trial, and jurisdiction between one 
 and five hundred dollars, and no appeal firom 
 a jury trial. 
 
 There are objections raised to the system 
 of County Courts, and there are arguments 
 in favor of it My object is, if it is the wish 
 of this Convention, that the L^islature may 
 
402 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satubdat, August 8. 
 
 have power to establish such Coxirts, if they 
 think it would be beneficial, in addition to 
 those already provided for ; and that this Con- 
 stitution may not limit us merely to Municipal 
 Courts. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. 3. The Supreme Court shall consist of 
 three Judges, a majority, of whom shall constitute 
 a quorum, and a concurrence of two of said Judges 
 shall in all cases be necessary to a decision. The 
 Judges of the Supreme Court shall be elected for 
 the term of nine years." 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I move to amend by stri- 
 king from the last line the word " nine," and 
 insert " six." I am opposed to any man hold- 
 ing oflQce that length of time, without giving 
 the people the opportunity of making a change. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. 5. The State shall be divided into three 
 districts— such districts shall be formed of con- 
 tiguous territory, as nearly equal in population as, 
 without dividing a county, the same can be made. 
 One of the Judges of the Supreme Court shall be 
 elected by the qualified electors of each district, 
 and he shall reside therein during his continuance 
 in oCace." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I offer the following sub- 
 stitute for that section : 
 
 "Sec. 5. The Judges of the Supreme Court 
 •hall be elected by the qualified electors of the 
 State on a general ticket." 
 
 I offer it because I think it provides for a 
 better way of electing Judges of the Supreme 
 Court. I do not know of an instance where 
 the Judges of the highest Court are elected 
 in the manner proposed here. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. In Illinois. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. And in Michigan. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. It seems to me that it is 
 not the proper way. These Judges are to sit 
 for the whole State. They are not expected 
 to have any local interest or feeling, and they 
 ought not to have. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 "Sec. 13. The State shall be divided by coun- 
 ties into Judicial Circuits. A Judge for each 
 
 Circuit shall be elected by the voters thereof for 
 the term of six years. He shall reside within the 
 Circuit for which he was elected during his contin- 
 uance in oflQce. The Legislature may, by law, in- 
 crease the number of Circuits as may become ne- 
 cessary." 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. The committee have 
 not filled the blank in this section. It is a 
 mere matter of opinion, and without argument 
 at all ; I will move to fill the blank with " six." 
 
 I would suggest that gentlemen look over 
 their different localities and express their opin- 
 ions upon it, if they differ with me. We 
 were unable, in the committee, to fill it. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. 14. Each Circuit Judge shall hold Court 
 at least twice a year, in every county within his 
 Circuit, organized for judicial purposes. The 
 Judges of the Circuit Court may hold terms for 
 each other, and shall do so when required by law." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Though I have been un- 
 successful thus far, I will yet move to amend 
 this section. I think it is a bad principle to 
 have the Constitution determine that there 
 shall be held two terms of the Court each 
 year in every organized county. It will put 
 the counties to great expense, when a great 
 many of them will not have inhabitants enough 
 to furnish grand and pettit jurors — certainly 
 not enough for jurors and witnesses both. 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. I do not understand that 
 the section means every organized county, but 
 every county organized for judicial purposes. 
 Such a judicial organization may be composed 
 of half a dozen counties. 
 
 No amendment being offered, the section 
 was passed by — 
 
 " Sec. 15. There shall be elected by the quali- 
 fied electors of each county organized for judicial 
 purposes one Clerk of the Circuit Court, who shall 
 
 hold his oiBce for years, and until his successor 
 
 shall be elected and qualified. The Judge of any 
 Circuit Court may fill any vacancy in the oflice of 
 Clerk until the same can be filled by election. The 
 County Clerk may be chosen or elected Clerk of 
 the Circuit Court." 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I moved that the blank 
 be filled with " two." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. 19. There shall be established in each 
 county organized for judicial purposes a Probate 
 Court — holden by one Judge, elected by the voters 
 of the county — who shall hold his office for the 
 term of two years, and until his successor is elected 
 and qualified. He shall receive such compensation 
 as shall be prescribed by law." 
 
 Mr. LYLE. It is not very probable that 
 lawyers will be elected for Probate Judges, 
 but rather a class of men who are qualified 
 for the office of Justice of the Peace. The 
 Probate offico is of great importance to the 
 jV;ople, and it would take an individual a 
 whole year to qualify himself to perform the 
 duties of that oflBce, after spending his whole 
 time, and being to the expense of purchasing 
 necessary books. And he would only have one 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satcbdat, August 8. 
 
 403 
 
 year after that in which to perform liis duties. 
 I move to strike out " two" and insert " four." 
 I think if gentlemen wiU look at the matter, 
 they will come to the conclusion that it is 
 right and proper to make the term longer, in 
 order to give the incumbents a better oppor- 
 tunity to qualify themselves for the station. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I think myself the time 
 should be longer, and I think so, for the rea- 
 sons mentioned by my friend fi'om Mower 
 county. No lawyer will accept the office, and 
 by the time the incumbents are turned out of 
 office they will have but just become qualified 
 for their duties. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. So far as I am con- 
 cerned, I am decidedly opposed to striking out 
 the word " two," and inserting " four." If, 
 as has been said here, we are to have men 
 elected to that office who know nothing about 
 their duties, I think we should look to the 
 road at the other end, through which, or over 
 which, we can pass them out. Now I have 
 had some little experience in matters of this 
 kind, and I have always found the practical 
 result to be, that if men were elected to that 
 office who had some little smattering of legal 
 knowledge, and who performed their duties 
 well for two years, they are re-elected for two 
 years more ; but if they are incompetent for 
 the first two years, they are thrown aside and 
 somebody else is elected in their places. 
 The two year's sj'stem has given better satis- 
 faction than the four year's system. I could 
 point out an instance where a man got into 
 that office for four years, who knew as much 
 of probate matters as any of us here, but 
 who, fi-om an inclination not to discharge his 
 duties, became odious to the people. But the 
 people had no remedy, and they were com- 
 pelled to bear with him 'till the expiration of 
 the four years. If they are any way tracta- 
 ble, ot course, they can get some little know- 
 ledge of their duties long before the expiration 
 of two years ; and if they discharge their du- 
 ties faithfully they are re-elected, and if they 
 do not, two years is long enough. 
 
 Mr. MURPHY. I hope the provision will 
 remain as it is. For the welfare of the md- 
 ows, I am in favor of allowing it to remain. 
 If a man has the proper qualifications he can 
 learn the duties of the office in less than one 
 year, and if he cannot, two years is as long 
 as he should be kept in office. I Lave seen 
 
 many instances where men, elected to the 
 office of Probate Judge, were not fit for their 
 duties, and under tliis amendment, we covdd 
 not get rid of them for four years. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 "Sec. 23. The Legislature shall have power to vest 
 in the clerks of the supreme and circuit courts, or of 
 such other courts as may be established hj the 
 Legislature, authority to grant such orders and do 
 such acts as may be deemed necessary for the fur- 
 therance of the administration of justice — but in 
 all cases the powers thus granted shall be specific 
 and determined. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I think it must have 
 been the intention of the committee to have 
 inserted the words "of record" after the 
 word " courts," where it occurs the second 
 time. I move that it be inserted. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I hope the amendment 
 will not be adopted. It seems to me to be 
 unnecessary, for courts of justices of the 
 peace have no clerks. If the Legislature 
 should see fit to establish other courts, not 
 courts of record, it might be deemed advisa- 
 ble that they should have clerks, and I see 
 no reason why they might not have the same 
 powers in this respect as clerks of courts of 
 record. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I think, by afl means it 
 should be " courts of record." Whether there 
 shall be established any other courts or not, I 
 do not want their clerks to have any such 
 powers as are conferred here. The amend- 
 ment was agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. 25. A competent number of Justices of 
 the Peace shall be elected by the electors in the 
 several counties. Their term of office shall be 
 two years, and their powers and duties shall be 
 regulated by law. 
 
 Mr. KING. I should like to know how 
 that competent number is to be ascertained ? 
 
 Mr. WILSON. The Legislature have that 
 matter in charge. 
 
 Mr. WATSON. I move to amend by 
 striking out "two" and inserting "three.' 
 For the last few years I have lived in a State 
 where justices held their offices five years. I 
 think two years too short a term. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. 26. There shall be an Attorney General 
 elected by the voters of the State, whose term of 
 office shall be two years, and until his successor 
 is elected and qualified, and whose duties shall be 
 prescribed by law." 
 
 Mr. KING. I move to strike out section 
 
404 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Sat today, August 8. 
 
 six. That provision is embraced in the report 
 on State oflBcers, other than Executive. That 
 report has been considered, and ordered to 
 be engrossed for a third reading. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. 28. If any cause shall be pending in the 
 Supreme Court in which any two of the Judges 
 thereof shall be personally interested, the Gover- 
 nor shall appoint competent persons to act as jud- 
 ges during the trial of such cause in the place of 
 the judges thus interested. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. There seems to be 
 a little inconsistency in section twenty-eight. 
 /Suppose one of the judges should be in- 
 terested and only one, and then suppose the 
 other two are unable to agree ; what is to be 
 done ? Now we have another provision ma- 
 king it indispensably necessary that two jud- 
 ges should concur in any decision, otherwise 
 it is not a decision. The contingency might 
 possibly arise where the two judges remaining 
 could not agree. In that case, of course, no 
 decision could be made. 
 
 No amendment was offered and the section 
 was passed over. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. Mr. Ciiaibman, I have an 
 amendment to offer to section fourteen. I 
 I move to amend, by striking out all after the 
 word " hold," in the first Hne, and inserting 
 these words : " AS many terms of court in 
 " every county organized for judicial purpo- 
 " ses within his circuit as may be ordained by 
 "law;" so that the section will read: "each 
 "circuit judge shall hold as many terms of 
 " court, &c." 
 
 My object is to save expense. I live in a 
 county of 4,000 inhabitants, and the people 
 there have never asked for more than one 
 term in the year. They do not desire any 
 more ; and there are many other counties that 
 do not require more than one tenn. Then 
 there will be new counties organized in remote 
 parts of the State, Where it would bo impos- 
 sible for the judge to attend twice a year, and 
 where his duties would not be required if he 
 should attend. I remember we had an exam- 
 ple of this kind in the Stato of Wisconsin — 
 in La Point, and other new counties, they 
 were compelled in this way to hold two terms 
 a year ; and there were cases there in which 
 the Judge had traveled 150 miles to hold 
 court, and when he got there no court could 
 be convened, because the people did not re- 
 quire it. I hope the Convention will look at 
 
 this 'matter before passing upon it. If the 
 people should want more than one session, it 
 wDl be an easy matter for the Legislature to 
 provide for them. I am satisfied that the 
 people of my county do not desire more than 
 one session in the year. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELIi. Mr. Ciiaibman, I 
 move a substitute for that amendment, by 
 merely inserting after the word "purposes," 
 these words: "Unless othen\'ise provided 
 "bylaw." 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. That would be the same 
 in substance. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Mr. Chaikman, I do not 
 think the substitute would be the same in 
 substance, exactly. I think some such pro- 
 vision should be made in case of the new 
 counties, and those small counties nominally, 
 but regularly organized for legislative and 
 judicial purposes — some of them having not 
 to exceed thirty votes — such as the county of 
 Anoka, and other counties cut out of the 
 county of Benton, &c. They do not require 
 two terms — not so many as one, in some 
 instances. It seems to me it would be better 
 for the Legislature, or for the judges them- 
 selves, to decide how many terms shall be 
 held. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I believe Mr. Chairman, 
 that the Legislature should prescribe the num- 
 ber of terms. There are many counties 
 where they would be unnecessarily compelled 
 to hold two terms, unless otherwise provided 
 by law. It would be a useless]|expense, and 
 should not be done. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman 
 from Chisago accept of the substitute ? 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. No sir. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The original amend, 
 ment proposes to strike out and insert, whilst 
 the substitute proposes only to insert. It is 
 the opinion of the Chair that it could hardly 
 be taken as a substitute. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Mr. Chaibman : If 
 the amendment is adopted, we cannot have a 
 court in any county till the Legislature shall 
 have met and determined the number of 
 terms ; whereas, if the substitute is adopted, 
 there will be two terms held in every county, 
 unless otherwise provided by law. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Our present Territorial 
 laws, will of course, remain in force until the 
 organization of the judiciary under the new 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Sattodat, August 8. 
 
 405 
 
 Constitution. We do not know, indeed, 
 whether the Constitution will be adopted; 
 and until then, of course, the judges wiU 
 hold, as at present. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I suppose the gentle- 
 man understands that as we have no circuit 
 court now, we ] shall not have two terms a 
 year imtil they are authorized. 
 
 Mr. WILSON, Mr. Chaibman : The ob- 
 ject sought Is the same, by each^^gentleman ; 
 and I think the gentleman from Steele county 
 (Mr. Coggswell) comes to a correct conclu- 
 sion. As a general rule, we shall want two 
 terms of the circuit court in each county 
 organized for judicial purposes. There are 
 some counties brought to notice, where the 
 court, probably, wiU not be held twice. They 
 will be the exceptions, the other cases the rule. 
 These exceptions can be made very readily 
 by the Legislature. There need be no trouble 
 whatever about it, if we accept the amend- 
 ment of the gentleman from Steele. I think 
 the language, also, is a little better, and prefer 
 it on that account. 
 
 Mr. Folsom's amendment was rejected. 
 
 And then, Mr. Coggswell's amendment, 
 inserting after the word " purposes," in the 
 third line, these words: "unless otherwise 
 " provided by law," was adopted. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. Mr. Chairman : I would 
 like to offer an amendment to section twenty- 
 five, striking out all after the word " counties," 
 in the second line, and inserting " their 
 " term of office, powers and duties shall be 
 " regulated by law," so that the section will 
 read: 
 
 " A competent number of Justices of the Peace 
 shall be elected by the electors in the several coun- 
 ties. Their term of office, powers and duties shall 
 be regulated by law." 
 
 My object, Mr. Chairman, is this : I sup- 
 pose it is not certainly ascertained, yet, what 
 organization we are going to have with respect 
 to county officers, whether the township sys- 
 tem is to be adopted, or whether we are to have 
 all as county officers. I am in favor, myself, of 
 the township organization ; that is, wherein 
 justices of the peace are elected by townships, 
 each having jurisdiction, of course, aU over 
 the county. In the State of Michigan there 
 are four justices in each county, one elected 
 every year, and each holding four years. We 
 might have three justices, with a three years 
 
 term, electing one every year : and I should 
 be in favor of leaving their'powers and duties 
 and their term of office, aU regulated by the 
 Legislature. 
 
 The amendment was adopted. 
 Mr. DICKERSON. Mr. Chairman : I would 
 move to amend the twenty-eighth section in 
 reference to cases where the judges are inte- 
 rested in a cause, by inserting the words, 
 "judge or" before the word "judges," where 
 it occurs in the second, third and fourth 
 lines. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. Mr. Chairman : It seems to 
 me that this would be leaving power very 
 loosely in the hands of the Governor, which 
 is likely to be abused. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Mr. Chairman : I do not 
 like the wording of this amendment, and I 
 do not think there is any necessity for it. 
 There is, to be sure, the objection suggested 
 some time ago by my friend from Steele 
 county, (Mr. Coggswell) but I do not think 
 it very important, from the fact that ©ne of 
 the judges goes out every three years. The 
 probability is there wU] be no appoint- 
 ment necessary, from the fact, that two judges 
 will most likely act in concert, and the cases 
 where the judges might differ would be 
 anomalous. I would rather the section should 
 remain as it is. And there is this, further, 
 that if more than one of the judges should be 
 interested in any cause, it is very likely there 
 would be a change at the next election. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. It seems to me, Mr. 
 Chairman, if there is a necessity for the sec- 
 tion at all, these amendments should be 
 adopted. If there was only a chance, I would 
 not provide for it, unless it were necessary. 
 But now,, if a party has a suit against a judge, 
 he must wait three years. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Mr. Chairman: If 
 the section is to be adopted, it should be made 
 operative in all possible cases. I think this 
 section should be something like the following: 
 
 " If, in any case pending in the supreme court, 
 any one or more of the judges thereof should be 
 personally interested, the Governor shall appoint 
 some competent person or persona to act in their 
 stead during the trial of the same." 
 
 — I think something of that kind would meet 
 every possible contingency, and if the amend- 
 ment of my friend should not meet with 
 favor, and nothing better should be presented 
 
406 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satueday, August 8. 
 
 by any other [member, I shall' oflfer what I 
 have read at the proper time. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would suggest a better 
 course than either, that power be given to 
 the Governor to appoint circuit judges to take 
 the place of those supreme court judges, in 
 cases where they are interested. 
 
 Mr. DICKERSON. I do not think it nec- 
 essary that the Governor, should be com- 
 pelled to appoint from the circuit judges. I 
 think a discretion would be better, for him to 
 appoint whom he pleases. 
 
 The amendments by Mr. Dickebson were 
 adopted. 
 
 Mr. MILLS. Mr. Chaibmax : I propose to 
 amend section thirteen, by striking out "six," 
 in the third line, and inserting " three." I do 
 this for the reasons submitted by the gentle- 
 man from Steele (Mr. Coggswell) with ref- 
 erence to the term of the probate judges. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Mr. Chaibman, the 
 report has passed through so pleasantly that 
 I am almost hesitating about an additional 
 section which I have to offer. It is submit- 
 ted however, upon consultation with several 
 gentlemen — attorneys of this city and other 
 places — and more than anything else for the 
 purpose of eliciting the opinion of members 
 of the Convention on the subject. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN read the section as fol- 
 lows: 
 
 « Sbc. — The Legislature shall, at its first ses- 
 sion, provide by law for the time and manner of 
 electing the Judges of the Supreme and Circuit 
 Courts, provided, that in no case shall any oflScer 
 be voted for upon the day fixed for the election 
 of said Judges." 
 
 I will just remark, Mr. Chaibman, in ref- 
 erence to this matter, that it is desirable per- 
 haps to have such a provision as this. The 
 question was not brought before the commit- 
 tee at all. It has been suggested in conver- 
 sation by several legal gentlemen ; and there 
 are members present who know that the sug- 
 gestion has come from gentlemen of the bar, 
 whose opinions are entitled to credit and res- 
 pect. This provision was adopted, and tliis 
 course pursued in the State of Wisconsin : 
 that the excitements of mere political and 
 party issues should be kept as far as possible 
 from the election of the judges — that the peo- 
 ple should elect the Judges, upon their mer- 
 its as judges — that they should be elected 
 
 with the view of making them as indepen- 
 dent of political parties as possible ; and con- 
 sequently, they should be elected on a day 
 separate from that on which the other officers 
 are elected, whose canvasses necessarily in- 
 volve grave political issues and create popu- 
 lar excitements. Manifestly, the election of 
 Judges should not be affected by popular ex- 
 citement, but the people should be left free to 
 choose the men in whom they are to place the 
 issues of life and property. I have thought 
 it proper to offer this amendment, subject, of 
 course, to the amendment of others, being 
 desirous of of eliciting the opinions of mem- 
 bers on the subject. The Convention will ob- 
 serve, that in the report, the election of judges 
 is not provided for at all. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Mr. Chaibman, this is a 
 subject which other State Constitutions have 
 made provision for, some in one way, and some 
 in another. I think, myself, the best way is 
 this: that in voting for the judges, the ballots 
 should be separate, and kept in a separate 
 box. That would sufficiently secure the judges' 
 election from the excitement of the general 
 elections, and save the expense of a separate 
 election. There would be a judge's election 
 every two years, and sometimes every year, 
 to fill vacancies. So, I . think it would be 
 better to have the separate ticket, than the 
 separate day. 
 
 Mr, LOWE. I think the suggestions of 
 the gentleman from Scott County (Mr. Gal- 
 bbaith) will be found more plausible than 
 beneficial. It will be remembered by gen- 
 tlemen, that in New York city, the charter 
 election was fixed on a different day, for the 
 very object suggested by the gentleman from 
 Scott, and it failed entirely. I do not believe 
 it will be possible to separate the election of 
 judges from political considerations, whether 
 they are made on the same day with the gen- 
 eral election, or a different day. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Mr. Chaibman : I have not 
 been here during most of this debate. I pre- 
 sume it might be safely trusted to the law- 
 yers. This, however, is a little in my line 
 also, and I will say that I feel inclined some- 
 what to the idea of a separate box on the day 
 of the general election. At the same time, 
 as the gentleman from Chisago (Mr. Lowe) 
 has intimated, there may be more plausibility 
 than benefit in it. I am opposed to this drag- 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Mondat, Auersr 10. 
 
 407 
 
 ging the people out to too many elections. In 
 this new country it is hard to get the people 
 out, imless you make a conflagration — a sort 
 of moral volcano — a great popular upheaval, 
 out of it. But around the cities there are 
 always people enough to come out, and they 
 would not tire, if you had three hundred -and 
 sixty-five elections in the year. Therefore I 
 think it better not to multiply our days of 
 election. This is my impression. 
 
 Mr. Galbbaith's amendment was rejected. 
 
 On motion of Mr. CLEGHORX, the com- 
 mittee now rose and reported the article and 
 amendments, with a recommendation, that 
 the amendments be adopted. 
 
 The question being on the first amendment 
 — to strike out the first section of the article. 
 
 Mr. KING, at forty minutes after four 
 o'clock, moved that the Convention adjourn. 
 
 The motion was lost. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Mr. Presibevt : I move 
 that the further consideration of the report be 
 postponed, and that it be made the special 
 order for Monday, at half past two o'clock. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Mr. President : I think 
 we can finish this now. I am opposed to lay- 
 ing over anything when we are prepared to 
 act upon it. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I make the motion for 
 this reason. It has not been till within a few 
 hours that any member has seen or heard this 
 report. It was not read when it was reported 
 from the committee, and no one has had the 
 means of knowing about it, until it was 
 brought in from the printers after the recess 
 this day at noon. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. It seems to me if we post- 
 pone, it wUl take more time to get through 
 with it than we have consumed already. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Mr. President: I 
 hope the motion will not prevail I think it 
 is well understood by this body, and the whole 
 of the legal profession in it, that a great d«al 
 of deliberation and time have been expended 
 on this report ; and, it seems to me, if we are 
 going to accomplish anything, it is high time 
 we were about it. Generally, the more we 
 work at these reports the worse we make 
 them. I do not for my part, feel inclined to 
 tinker on this any more. 
 
 The motion to postpone was rejected. 
 The several amendments reported from the 
 
 Committee of the Whole were then read and 
 severally concurred in without debate. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL then offered thefoUow- 
 ing substitute for section twenty -eight : 
 
 "If in any case pending in the Supreme Court, 
 any one or more of the Judges thereof shall be 
 personally interested, the Governor shall appoint 
 some competent person or persons to act in their 
 stead during the trial of the same." 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. The substitute seems to 
 differ merely in phraseology, from the section 
 as it now stands. I see no difference in the 
 meaning, and the choice is one of words 
 merely. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I think the substitute is 
 in better language than the original. 
 
 The substitute was adopted. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I now move that the report 
 be laid on the table. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 The report was then ordered to be engrossed 
 for a third reading. 
 
 On motion of Mr. CLEGHORN, (at^five 
 o'clock) the Conventiou adjourned. 
 
 TWENTY-FIFTH DAY. 
 
 Monday, August 10, 1857. 
 The Convention met at 9 o'clock, a. m. 
 The journal of Saturday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 REPORTS OF COMMITTEES. 
 
 Mr. MAXTOR, from the Committee on En- 
 grossment, reported back to the Convention, 
 as_correctly engrossed, report number fifteen, 
 on Amendments and Revision of the Consti- 
 tution; also, number sixteen, on OflBcial Sal- 
 aries. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. NORTH, the 
 Convention took a recess, until ten and a half 
 o'clock, A. M. 
 
 The Convention was called to order at half 
 past ten o'clock. 
 
 REPORT OF COIQIITTEE. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD, from the Committee upon 
 Finance, Taxation, and Public Debt, made 
 the following report, which was read a first 
 and second time, and laid on the table to be 
 printed, viz: 
 
 " Sec. 1. The Legislature shall provide by law 
 for a uniform and equal rate of assessment and 
 taxation, and shall prescribe such regulations as 
 shall secure a just valuation for taxation of all 
 
408 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 10. 
 
 property, both real and personal, excepting such 
 only for municipal, educational, literary, scientific, 
 religious, eleemosynary or charitable purposes as 
 may be especially exempted by law. 
 
 Sec. 2. The Legislature shall provide for an 
 annual tax sufficient to defray the estimated ex- 
 penses of the State for each year ; and whenever 
 the expenses of any year shall exceed the income, 
 the Legislature shall provide for levying a tax the 
 ensuing year, sufficient, with other sources of in, 
 come, to pay the deficiency, as well as the esti- 
 mated expenses of the ensuing year. 
 
 Sec. 3. Every law which imposes, continues or 
 revives a tax shall distinctly state the tax and the 
 object to which it is applied, and it shall not be suf- 
 ficient to refer to any other law to fix such tax or 
 object. 
 
 Sec. 4. The credit of the State shall not be 
 granted to, or in aid of, any person, association or 
 corporation. 
 
 Sec. 5. No money shall ever be paid out of the 
 Treasury of this State except in pursuance of an 
 appropriation by law. 
 
 Sec. 6. The State shall never contract any 
 debts for works of internal improvements, or be a 
 party carrying on such works; except, in such 
 cases when grants of land or other property shall 
 have been made to the State, especially dedicated 
 by the grant to particular works of internal im- 
 provements, the State may carry on such particular 
 works, and shall devote' thereto the avails of such 
 grants, and may pledge or appropriate the reve- 
 nues derived from such works in aid of their com- 
 pletion. 
 
 Sec. 7. The State shall never contract any pub- 
 lic debt, unless in time of war, to repel invasion, 
 or suppress insurrection ; except as in this Consti- 
 tution provided. 
 
 Sec. 8. The money arising from any loan made, 
 or debt or liability contracted, shall be applied to 
 the object specified in the act authorizing such 
 debt or liability, on the re -payment of such debt 
 or liability, and to no other purpose. 
 
 Sec. 9. Suitable laws shall be passed by the 
 Legislature for the safe keeping, transfer and dis- 
 bursment of the public funds ; and also, for the 
 publication of the expenses of the State for each 
 fiscal year. 
 All of which is respectfully submitted. 
 BOUNDARIES OF THE STATE. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS offered the following resolu- 
 tion: 
 
 "Besolved, That there shall be submitted to the 
 qualified voters of this territory, at the same time 
 this Constitution is submitted to' them for their 
 adoption or rejection, the following proposition (or 
 one substantially the same) ; and if the same shall 
 receive a majority of all the votes cast both for and 
 against it, then the same shall be a part of this 
 Constitution, and go with the same to the Congress 
 of the United States to be acted upon by them as 
 they may see proper, viz : 
 
 PROPOSITION NUMBER — . 
 
 "That the following alteration of the boundary 
 line mentioned in the act entitled an act to author- 
 ize the people of Minnesota to form a Constitution . 
 and State Government, preparatory to their ad- 
 mission into the Union, on an equal footing with 
 the original States, approved March 3d, 1857, is 
 desired by the people of said State of Minnesota; 
 and, if the same shall be assented and agreed to 
 by the Congress of the United States, then the 
 same shall be and forever remain obUgatory upon 
 the State of Minnesota, viz: Beginning at the 
 middle of the main channel of the Missouri river, 
 at the point where the forty-sixth parallel of lati- 
 tude crosses the same ; thence down the middle of 
 the main channel of said Missouri river to the 
 western boundary of the State of Iowa, at a point 
 opposite the mouth of the main channel of the Big 
 Sioux river; thence up the middle of the main 
 channel of said Big Sioux river, to the north-west 
 corner of the State of Iowa ; thence east along the 
 northern boundary of said State, to the main chan- 
 nel of the Mississippi river ; thence up the main 
 channel of the Misssissippi river and following the 
 boundary line of the State of 'Wisconsin, until it 
 is intersected by the parallel of forty-six degrees 
 north latitude ; thence west along said parallel of 
 forty-six degrees, until said parallel intersects 
 the middle of the main channel of the Missouri 
 river at the point of beginning." 
 
 Mr. DAVIS said: Mr. President, in the 
 few remarks I shall make in support of the 
 resolution I have just oSered, I do not pro- 
 pose going into a discussion of the merits of 
 an east and west line over a different, or 
 north and south line. The relative merits 
 of the two lines have already been pretty 
 thoroughly dfecussed, at the time this Con- 
 vention adopted the line proposed by Con- 
 gress. But, Mr. President, I cannot help 
 but express a hope that the resolution referred 
 to will pass, for the reason that I believe it 
 but doing an act of justice to a certain por- 
 tion of this Territory and to a large number of 
 citizens who are in favor of a different line 
 from that which has been prescribed by Con- 
 gress in the Enabling Act, and which we have 
 accepted. I deny, in the first place, that 
 Congress has the right to prescribe the 
 boundaries of any new State coming into the 
 Union, because it is a matter which concerns 
 the citizens of the State or Territory, and them 
 alone. The Congress of the United States 
 have, in the present instance, defined our 
 boundaries, but we were not bound to accept 
 them. It is true that, as a matter of policy 
 and expediency, we have accepted them in 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satcbdat, Augost 8. 
 
 409 
 
 full. But it was a mere proposition made by 
 them to us, which we might have accepted or 
 refused. Now, as a matter of expediency, as 
 a matter of poUcy, and as a matter of justice 
 to a large nmnber of inhabitants of this Ter- 
 ritory, I hope this resolution will pass. I am, 
 to a certain extent, in favor of Squatter Sover- 
 eignt}-. I think on this question of boundary, 
 a question of such importance to them,'the 
 citizens of this State should be heard, and 
 should have an opportunity to express their 
 preference and to make their wishes known ; 
 and if this proposition should receive the vote 
 of a majority of the voters of this Territoiy, 
 it will go before Congress as a simple memo- 
 rial, which they may accept or reject as they 
 think proper. It will not prejudice our chances 
 for admission in the least. 
 
 In my section of the Territoiy, there is an 
 intense feeUng and excitement upon this one 
 question. They have called public meetings ; 
 they have passed resolutions ; and they have 
 declared that no Constitution coming from 
 this body or any other body, wliich does not 
 either give them an east and west line, or 
 give them an opportunity to express their 
 views and preference as to the line, shall 
 receive their support ; but that, on the contra- 
 ry, they will, without distinction of party, go 
 against it. To show the members of this 
 Convention something of that sentiment, I 
 will read an article from the St. Peter Free 
 Press, of the date of July 29th; 
 
 " What we ask is, that this matter shall be aiib- 
 mittM to a vote of the people, as a separate ques- 
 tion. 
 All we ask is, ' An open field, and a fair fight.* 
 
 " Give us this, and we are content. Without 
 this, we will not be. And we tell the Convention 
 nov beforehand that if any other course be adopt- 
 ed — or if a north and south line boundary be in- 
 corporated into the Constitution, we icillfight it to 
 the death — we care not how good the Constitution 
 may be, in other respects. In this, we know we 
 but speak the wishes and determination of the mass 
 of our citizens in Southern Minnesota, without re- 
 gard to party. As a Republican paper, represent- 
 ing the interests and wishes of the Republicans of 
 this region, we tell our Republican delegates, no 
 matter who they may be, that if you attempt to 
 force upon us this line contrary to our known and 
 expressed wishes, we will not submit to it. We 
 will make common cause with any party to defeat 
 those Republicans who attempt it. If, gentlemen, 
 you desire to ruin yourselves and our party for the 
 present, adopt a north and south line. If not, then 
 
 52 
 
 I adopt our suggestion, and let the People have a fair 
 j chance to express their choice in the matter. 
 
 "That much we demand; and will have it. or 
 fight." 
 
 I know that the sentiments of that article 
 are but the general sentiments in that portion 
 of the Territory, in which I reside — not only 
 in my county, but in two or three adjoining 
 counties. Meetings have been held by Dem- 
 ocrats and Republicans, without distinction of 
 party, and this has been the imiversal senti- 
 ment expressed in those meetings. I hold in 
 my hand resolutions passed at a pubhc meet- 
 ing of Republicans, held in St. Peter on the 
 third day of August ; at which meeting were 
 assembled at least three or four hundred peo- 
 ple. The resolutions are as follows : 
 
 " Whereas, The citizens of the Territory of Min- 
 nesota, 'by an Enabling Act of Congress,' are en- 
 deavoring to form a Constitution by which they 
 may be admitted into the Federal Union as a State, 
 with equal rights and privileges with the other sis- 
 ter members of the Confederacy ; and, 
 
 " Whereas, Under the call for framing a Consti- 
 tution and defining our boundaries as a future 
 State, delegates have been chosen throughout the 
 Territory, and are now sitting at St. Paul for the 
 ostensible purpose of framing a Constitution which 
 shall be acceptable to the majority of the people in 
 the Territory ; and, 
 
 " W}iereas, The present crisis in our political af- 
 fairs demands energetic and philanthropic action 
 on the part of the people, in order to thwart th« 
 despotic machinations of the Democratic party, 
 which, in our opinion, judging from former prece- 
 dents, is endeavoring to impose upon us a Consti- 
 tution embracing doctrines and sentiments repug- 
 nant and antagonistical to the fundamental and 
 well established principles of the Federal Consti- 
 tution, and inimical and dangerous to our best in- 
 terests and welfare as a State ; and, 
 
 " Whereas, We believe that the true policy and 
 general interests of the people of the Territory de- 
 mand the establishment of an'east and west boun- 
 dary line ; therefore, as an expression of the feel- 
 ings of this Republican body, 
 
 " Besolvtd, That we recognize the Repablican 
 organization at St. Paul as the legal branch of the 
 Constitutional Convention, and endorse their ac- 
 tion, thus far in the premises, as in accordance 
 with the principles and tenets of the Republican 
 party. 
 
 " Jtesohed, That we deem^it for the interests of 
 this Territory that it be divided by an east and 
 west boundary line, and our delegates in the Con - 
 stitutional Convention are hereby requested and 
 instructed to use all fair and honorable means to 
 embody in the Constitution such a boundary line, 
 or submit the same to a vote of the people as a 
 separate question." 
 
410 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satckdat, August 8. 
 
 Mr. President, I feel anxious to have 
 this resolution passed, for I know it represents 
 the wishes of a large portion of the people of 
 Southern Minnesota, aside from the particular 
 county which I represent. I have received 
 numerous letters on this subject from people 
 residing in my section of the country ; and I 
 have seen gentlemen, both Democrats and 
 Republicans, and they all say that if this 
 Convention will give them the opportunity to 
 express their wishes in regard to the boun- 
 dary line, they will support the Constitution 
 to a man, without distinction of party ; and 
 if they are not so permitted to express their 
 wishes, they will oppose it. To show some- 
 thing of the feeling which pervades the com- 
 munity, I will read anj^extract from a letter 
 written from St, Peter : 
 
 " St. Peter, Aug. 4, 1857. 
 
 " ^RIE^^) Davis, — I am very sorry to see such a 
 disposition to loch down from our position in favor 
 of the east and west line. It will not do. We sup- 
 posed, of course, that there was to be no question 
 about it among our folks. How can we do else 
 than adopt it, after the position we took upon it 
 last winter ? We cannot do it, and if we do the 
 people will not support it. The feeling here is be- 
 soming intense upon the subject. All parties are 
 ready to unite in favor of that Constitution which 
 will give us that line, or at least leave it to a vote 
 of the people. It is bad, but so it is ; and this 
 musthe done, or we are used up." 
 
 I have received other letters, but I cannot 
 now read them. All I ask, and all that any 
 from that portion of the Territory ask, is, that 
 this question shall be submitted to a vote of 
 the people. Give us that and we can go into 
 Nicollet county, and into Le Sueur county, and 
 obtain nearly every vote in favor of this Con- 
 stitution ; while without it, I assure this Con- 
 vention that our Constitution will receive but 
 a very few votes. For my own part, I will 
 stand up for it ; but if I go home without 
 such a provision, I know wliat prejudices I 
 shall have to encounter, and I consider it 
 hopeless to undertake to overcome that preju- 
 dice, and to obtain the votes of the people in 
 favor of our Constitution. Again, Mr. Pbe- 
 siDENT, let me say that I hope this resolution 
 may pass, for while it gives that portion of 
 our people who desire an cast and west divis- 
 ion line an opportunity to express their prefer- 
 ence, it secures their support for our Consti- 
 tution, and thus enhances the chances for our 
 success. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The resolution having 
 given rise to discussion, Kill be laid over one 
 day under the rules. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move that the rules 
 be so far suspended as to allow this resolution 
 to be considered now. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to, (two-thirds 
 not voting in favor thereof) 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I move that this reso- 
 lution be printed for the use of members. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I hope the motion 
 will not prevail, for the reason that I think — 
 and all gentlemen wUl agi*ee with me, consid- 
 ering the 'present state of our printing — it 
 will be at least three days before it will be 
 laid upon our desks ; and I hope that before 
 that time has elapsed, we shall be able to 
 complete our labors, and go back to our con- 
 stituents. It seems to me to be a resolution 
 which can be easily understood. It is sim- 
 ply a proposition to submit the boundary 
 questions to the people, and allow them to 
 decide it for themselves. It is not like a long 
 report involving a great many questions, and 
 a great many issues. It is a simple proposi- 
 tion which can be understood the very mo- 
 ment it is read. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I withdraw my motion. 
 
 A COMPROMISE PROPOSED. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH submitted the foUowing 
 resolution : 
 
 " Whereas, The persons who were elected by the 
 people of this Territory to represent them in a 
 Constitutional Convention, having met at this Cap- 
 itol on the day appointed by law for such melting, 
 and having disagreed upon some questions which 
 arose in the course of forming a temporary organ- 
 ization, separated and formed two distinct Con- 
 ventions, in numbers nearly equal, and are now 
 forming two separate and distinct Constitutions, to 
 be presented to the people ; and, 
 
 " Whereas, Proceedings so extraordinary in their 
 character will have a tendency to injure the repu- 
 tation of our people — to lessen the confidence of 
 the other States in our integrity, stability and pa- 
 triotism, and place us in a false position before the 
 world ; therefore, 
 
 " Hesolved, That a committee of five be appointed 
 by the President of this Convention to confer with 
 a committee of an equal number, if appointed, of 
 the duly elected members of that portion of them 
 who are acting separately from us; and that it 
 shall be the duty of such committee to consider 
 and agree upon, if practicable, and report some 
 plan by which the two bodies can unite upon a sin- 
 gle Constitution to be submitted to the people. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Sattbdat, August 8. 
 
 411 
 
 The resolurion was unanimously adopted. 
 
 The Pbesidext subsequently appointed as 
 such committee, Messrs. Galbraith, Mc- 
 Clcbe, Staxxakd, Aldbich, and Wilsox. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. North, (at 12 
 o'clock,) the Convention took a recess imtil 
 half-past two o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention was called to order at half- 
 past two o'clock. 
 
 FISAL ADJOCRySTEST. 
 
 The following resolution coming up in the 
 regular order of business, viz : 
 
 "Jiesolv(d, That the Convention adjonm withoat 
 day on Thursday, the thirteenth instant." 
 
 Mr. COLBURN said : Since I introduced 
 that resolution on Saturday, matters have 
 taken a somewhat different turn from what 
 was anticipated, and I therefore move to lay 
 the resolution upon the table. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I would inquire what 
 became of the resolution I introduced the 
 other day, in regard to submitting the ques- 
 tion of negro suffrage to the people ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chah- would 
 inform the gentleman that it was referred to 
 the conunittee upon the Schedule. 
 
 SEAL A>"D COAT OF ASXS. 
 
 On motion of Mr. NORTH, the Convention 
 resolved itself into a committee of the Whole, 
 (Mr. CoGGSWELL in the chair) upon report 
 nimaber seventeen, on the state seal and coat 
 of arms. " 
 
 The report was read as follows : 
 
 " Your committee would report that they have 
 taken the subject that devolved upon them into j 
 consideration, and have procured a design for a ' 
 seal and coat of arms, from a competent person, j 
 and would recommend the adoption of the same. ' 
 For a more particular knowledge of the device, ; 
 your committee would refer to the design itself j 
 which accompanies this report ; but would say in ' 
 general that it represents a waterfall, (supposed to ' 
 be that of Minne-ha-ha) within a shield. This part 
 of the device is intended to symbolize the idea of j 
 water, for the amount and varied forms of which ; 
 Minnesota is distinguished above any other part of 
 our country, and probably above any other part of 
 the world. In addition, is represented the figure 
 an Indian, with hLs face turned towards the setting 
 sun, and with his tomahawk and bow and arrows at 
 his feet Opposite the Indian is the figure of a 
 white man, with a sheaf of wheat and some of the 
 
 implements of agriculture at his feet. The Indian 
 is represented as asking the white man, by an im- 
 ploring gesture, whither he shall go, and the white 
 man is responding by pointing to the implements 
 of agriculture, as indicating that he must now 
 assume the habits of civilized life. In one comer 
 of the field appears a distant view of Lake Superior, 
 with a ship in full sail. In another is a view of 
 a river, (which may be supposed to be the Minne- 
 sota), rtmning to the westward, with a steamboat 
 ascending its stream. In rear of the shield and 
 waterfall three pine trees are placed, which are 
 typical of the three great pine regions — the Saint 
 Croix, the Mississippi, and Lake Superior. 
 
 " For a motto, to accompany the words, " State of 
 Minnesota, A. D., lSo7," which areplacedupon the 
 upper rim of the seal, only two phrases have sug- 
 gested themselves to your committee as suitable. 
 One is the expression from one of the Latin jwets, 
 " Fulget intaminatis Tumoribus" which may be 
 thus translated, " She, or it, (Minnesota) shines 
 or is refulgent with untarnished honors. This 
 would be more significant and appropriate than 
 most of the Latin mottoes placed upon the shields 
 of the States ; but the one the committee have 
 placed upon the design accompanying the report, 
 and which they recommend for adoption, is taken 
 from a celebrated speech of one of the greatest of 
 our orators, and which, as giving expression to the 
 two great ideas which have always swayed the 
 American mind, and always must sway it, they 
 think well worthy to be forever linked with the 
 fortunes and memory of the State of Minnesota — 
 "Liberty and Union, now and forener." 
 
 " The committee would remark that the principal 
 feature of the seal, that of the waterfall, has been 
 suggested to them by a number of the members of 
 the Convention. For the accessory features of the 
 seal, they are indebted in great part to the sug- 
 gestion of an artist and designer of this city, to 
 whom they are happy, on this occasion to acknowl- 
 edge their obligations, Mr. R. Ormsby Sweeney." 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I move to strike out from 
 the motto, the words, " tioic and foreterJ'' 
 It seems to me that those words do not add 
 anything to the force of the motto. The 
 words " Liberty and Union "' contain all the 
 idea there is there ; and if that motto is per- 
 petual, it exists " now and forever." In a 
 motto, brevity is desirable. A long motto, or 
 a motto that contains the idea that it is a part 
 of a speech, becomes hacknied, and does not 
 contain the idea with that brevity and terse- 
 ness which should characterize it And I am 
 not sure that a better motto could not be 
 found, if we had time to look for one. 
 
 The PRESIDENT here presented to the 
 Convention the design of the seal which 
 accompanied the report. 
 
412 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 8. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I hope the motion wiU 
 prevail. Being one of the committee that 
 made the report, I did not feel like amending 
 my own report, though I am decidedly in 
 favor of that amendment. " Liberty and 
 Union" now, and we can tell about the future 
 when that becomes the present. 
 
 The amendment was ^'eed to. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. NORTH, the 
 committee rose and reported back to the 
 Convention the report with the amendment, 
 with a recommendation that the amendment 
 be concurred in. 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I move that the report 
 be referred to the committee on Engrossment. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I hope we shall not be 
 hasty about this matter. I Vould like to see 
 this report laid upon the table for a few days, 
 for the reason that a great many persons in 
 the city feel a great interest in this matter, 
 and I do not know but what we can improve 
 it by allowong it to lay over for a few days. 
 It certainly can do no harm, and we can pass 
 it in a few moments, at any future time. 
 This is something which we are not all, prob- 
 ably qualified to criticise. I certainly am not, 
 and I would like to obtain the opinions of 
 some gentleman of better taste than my own, 
 upon such a matter as this. I move that it 
 be laid on the table. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 BOUNDARIES OF THE STATE. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move that the rules 
 of Convention be so far suspended as to allow 
 the resolution offered this mornmg by the 
 gentlemen from Nicollet, (Mr. Davis) to be 
 taken up and considered at this time. 
 
 The motion was agreed to (two-thirds vot- 
 ing in favor thereof 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would suggest that it 
 might be well to go into committee of the 
 Whole upon that resolution. There may be 
 considerable discussion upon it, and in order 
 to give an opportunity for a free expression 
 of sentiment jupon it, I move that the Con- 
 vention resolve] itself into a committee of the 
 Whole for the consideration of that resolution. 
 
 The motion was agreed "to, and the Con- 
 vention accordingly resolved itself into a 
 committee of the Whole (Mr. Watson in the 
 (-hair) on said resolution. 
 
 The reeolution was read. (See report of 
 this morning's proceedings. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. If I were to consult 
 my own feelings at the present time, I should 
 make no remarks upon this resolution, for the 
 reason that my physical health is such as to 
 incline me to remain quiet. But I feel that it 
 is my duty, representing as I do a constitu- 
 ency who, I know, are deeply interested in 
 this question — to say a few words. In the 
 outset I am willing to acknowledge that I 
 have fears and strong fears that this resolu- 
 tion may not pass this Convention ; but I will 
 hope that those fears may prove to be un- 
 founded. I know, Mr. Chairman, that there 
 is more anxiety felt in regard to the matter 
 set forth in that resolution, than there is in 
 regard to this question of negro suffrage — a 
 question which we have unanimously agreed 
 shall be submitted to the people in some way, 
 shape or manner. I am satisfied also that 
 there is more intense feeling existing upon 
 this question in certain localities than there is 
 in regard to many other matters and subjects 
 which have been adopted or rejected with an 
 extraordinary degree of feeling in this Con- 
 vention. There is a portion of this Territory 
 running along the valley of the Minnesota 
 river, and between Minnesota river and Strait 
 river which is well settled, and there are 
 counties . there containing from four to eight 
 thousand inhabitants, who are deeply inter- 
 ested in this question. It is my duty to rep- 
 resent their views and feelings in this matter 
 as well as my feeble abilities will p'ermit. I 
 am receiving letters every day in regard to 
 this east and west Une, from individuals in 
 that section of the Territory; and every 
 newspaper that comes from that quarter, 
 brings us the tidings of public meetings held 
 in certain localities, for the purpose of taking 
 into consideration this question, and of in- 
 structing their representatives thereon, in this 
 Convention. It seems to me that we ought 
 not to turn a deaf ear to the petitions of that 
 portion of our Territory and to say to them 
 that their voice shall not be heard in this 
 body. 
 
 My colleague from Nicollet (Mr. Davis) has 
 read some resolutions which were passed at 
 a large meeting at St. Peter, and he has also 
 read a letter which ho received from a gen- 
 tleman of high standing in that section of the 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satueday, August 8. 
 
 413 
 
 country; all going to show that there is an 
 intense feeling there in regard to this subject ; 
 and showing that that feeling is paramount to 
 all other feelings in regard to matters before 
 this Convention ; that this east and west line 
 is the question, and the only question which 
 seems to enter into their feeling and their con- 
 sideration ; that unless this Convention shall 
 allow their voice to be heard in some way, 
 shape or manner, they will irrespective of 
 party lines, party ties, and party obligations, 
 vote against our Constitution. 
 
 Now it seems to me that when men go to 
 that extent — men who are as strong partisans 
 as we are to say the least of it — we can come 
 to no other conclusion than that their feelings 
 must border upon that of intense excitement. 
 They do not desire that this Convention shall 
 place itself in an attitude that would place the 
 fruits of our labors in jeopardy. By no 
 means. All they ask is that this proposition 
 shall be submitted as a separate proposition, 
 so that they can vote either for or against it ; 
 so that their feelings may not be smothered, 
 and stifled, but may have a fair chance to 
 express themselves through the ballot box. 
 It seems to me that if we are Republicans, if 
 we are men who believe in the power and 
 capacity of the people to govern and control 
 themselves, if we believe that the people have 
 not only the right, but the capacity to decide 
 all these questions for themselves, there should 
 be no hesitation in our minds in regard to the 
 propriety of submitting this question as a 
 separate proposition. 
 
 And mark you, gentlemen, I say nothing in 
 regard to the merits of the question, for the 
 reason that that is a matter which I believe 
 the people wiU discuss when the question is 
 properly brought before them. If we are 
 Republicans, if we believe in this doctrine of 
 popular sovereignty — which we all profess to 
 beheve in — we shall have no hesitancy, it 
 seems to me, in submitting it as a separate 
 question to the people. I know that unless 
 it is submitted there is a large majority of 
 our voters — men who belong to both the Re- 
 publican and Democratic parties — will take 
 some course and resort to some measures, 
 which will give them a chance to express 
 tiieir views and sentiments in regard to this 
 question. I know too, that if you undertake 
 to silence that voice, and stifle that sentiment, 
 
 the Constitution we are about to submit to 
 the people, will not receive that support which 
 it otherwise would. Now if it were proposed 
 to engraft this into the Constitution and make 
 the result of this depend upon the fate of the 
 Constitution, I certainly would not srpport 
 it. But no such thing is asked. All they 
 ask is the privilege of expressing their senti- 
 ments through the ballot box. 
 
 If it should so happen that that sentiment 
 should be the prevailing one, they ask that 
 that wish may go to Congress, that Congress 
 may take it into consideration and give it such 
 weight as they think proper. Even though 
 a majority of the people of this Territory 
 should vote in favor of an east and west line, 
 they do not pretend to say that Congress 
 would grant their prayer, and respect their 
 choice and preference ; but they do say that 
 there is a strong probability, to say the least 
 of it, that Congress would take it into consid- 
 eration, and give it more consideration than 
 they would, had not that wish and preference 
 been expressed. Now I say, when we take 
 into consideration the rights of that section of 
 the Territory, and our duties here as repre- 
 sentative members, it seems to me that there 
 is no alternative left us but to respect those 
 rights, and to say to them that they shall have 
 a chance to express their sentiments through 
 the ballot box. When we take into consid- 
 eration, too, the strong desire we have that 
 our Constitution shall be adopted, and when 
 we take into consideration the fact that if 
 this question is submitted to the people as a 
 separate question, that whole country will 
 come up to a man and vote for our Constitu- 
 tion, it seems to me that it is a matter of pol- 
 icy for us to take that course ; and when we 
 connect that policy with a matter of right, it 
 makes that claim doubly strong. When we 
 consider the fact that such a course does not 
 jeopardise the Constitution, nor the admission 
 of Minnesota into the Union as a State, there 
 can be no sound reason, or substantial objec- 
 tion to submitting this as a separate proposi- 
 tion to the people. And I hope, before this 
 Convention shall vote that that class of our 
 population shall not be heard, that they will 
 take into consideration that glorious doctrine 
 of popular sovereignty which they will tram- 
 ple upon by so doing. I hope, too, they will 
 take into consideration the feet that they are 
 
414 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satuedat, August 8. 
 
 trampling upon the rights of a large portion 
 of our citizens who are just as much inter- 
 ested in the prosperity, growth and future 
 population of our Territory, as we are. They 
 are just as good Republicans as we are ; just 
 as good Democrats as can be found in the 
 Territory, and men who have just as intense 
 a desire to see Minnesota prosper, as we have. 
 
 I do not, Mr. Chaieman, propose to go uito. 
 an argument for the purpose of showing 
 that an east and west line is better than a 
 north and south line. That is a question 
 which will properly come before the peo- 
 ple when this is submitted as a separate 
 proposition. But upon this question of the 
 propriety of submitting it, I do hope we 
 shall be in a sufficient majority to carry it 
 through this Convention ; and I should like to 
 see it unanimously carried, for the reason that 
 it is carrying out a Republican principle, and 
 carrying out a Democratic principle. It is 
 giving to a large portion of our citizens the 
 right to express their views and sentiments, in 
 regard to a matter in which they feel intensely 
 interested, at the ballot box. If any member 
 can have a serious objection, or any kind of 
 objection, I hope he will state it ; and if he 
 has a better proposition than the one which 
 has been presented, I hope he will bring it 
 forward, and I shall be ready to sustain it. 
 
 If there is nothing more to be said on this 
 matter, I move that the committee rise and 
 report the resolution to the Convention with 
 a recommendation that it be concurred in. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I have an amendment 
 to offer to that motion. It is that the com- 
 mittee rise and recommend that the resolution 
 be laid over until to-morrow. My colleague 
 * (Mr. Lowe) who voted this morning to sus- 
 pend the rules for the purpose of taking up 
 this resolution, is now absent, and I desire 
 that he shall have an opportunity to speak 
 upon it. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. It is well known that I 
 am very favorable towards this resolution, 
 and I shall do what I can to procure its pas- 
 sage, as I have done for everything of a sim- 
 ilar sort which has been presented to the Con- 
 vention. As is well known, the county m 
 which I reside is almost unanimously in favor 
 of such a line as is proposed here. The 
 county of Wabashaw, is, I think ahnost two 
 thirds in favor of the north and south line 
 
 proposed in the Enabling Act. My colleagues 
 from Wabashaw are not present to-day. For 
 that reason, to give them an opportunity to 
 be heard, I desire to have the resolution laid 
 over imtil they are here, and then I shall take 
 the responsibility of voting and working 
 against a part of my constituency. I rather 
 not do it while my colleagues are absent. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I withdraw my mo- 
 tion, 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. Whenever this proposi- 
 tion has come before this body I have ex- 
 pressed my disposition and desire to have an 
 east and west line. But I am placed to-day 
 very much in the position of the gentleman 
 from Winona (Mr. Wilson). I am here the 
 representative of one more county than he — 
 Goodhue, Dodge and Freeborn — and I find 
 that a portion of my colleagues are not here 
 to-day. The representatives living in Good- 
 hue County may possibly oppose this reso- 
 lution. Yourself, Mr. Chairman (Mr. Wat- 
 son in the Chair) is from a coimty which, 
 were I to express my candid opinion, is in 
 favor of an east and west line. But Dodge 
 Coimty, I know, is in fiivor, to a man, of an 
 east and west line, and they will expect me 
 to support this proposition. And I see no 
 other or better time to express our wish and 
 desire than the present. And allow me to say 
 here, that while the gentleman who introduced 
 this resolution has been importuned by let- 
 ters on this subject ; and while his constitu- 
 ents have through their letters, their public 
 meetings, and their press, disclaimed their de- 
 sire of the line marked out by the Enabling 
 Act, I also have received nmnerous letters, 
 irrespective of party, praying that that line 
 would not be adopted by this Convention. 
 Men of all all parties request that the voice 
 of the people may be heard upon tliis ques- 
 tion. Now sir, while we will undoubtedly 
 submit another question of vital importance 
 to the people, for their decision, I can see no 
 good reason why, with the same propriety, 
 we might not also submit thi ^ question. Let 
 them have the opportunity to cast their vote 
 upon the subject, and they will be satisfied. 
 Then we shall have cleaned our skirts. I 
 hope however the resolution will be laid over 
 for the day, and until my colleagues shall all 
 bo present. 
 
 Mr. COLBUKN. Mr. Chaibman: It will 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satcbdat, August 8. 
 
 416 
 
 be remembered, that when this question of 
 boundary came before the Convention in the 
 earlier part of the session, and the question 
 arose as to whether the boundary prescribed 
 in the Enabling Act should be the boundary 
 in the Constitution, or whether it should be 
 an east and west line, I expressed myself de- 
 cidedly in favor of the line fixed by Congress ; 
 not because I was individually in favor of that 
 line — for I think I stated I had but little 
 choice between them — and in my estimation 
 there is but little choice between them — but 
 then I was in favor of the boundary proposed 
 by Congress, for the reason as I believed, 
 that if any other should be placed in the Con- 
 stitution, Congress would refuse to admit us 
 as a State into the Union, or at least reject or 
 delay us for a time. But this resolution, as I 
 understand it, provides that this question 
 shall be submitted to the people as a separate 
 and distinct question ; that by it the people 
 shall have an opportunity of expressing their 
 preference between the two lines ; and if a 
 majority prefer an east and west line, then 
 the resolution goes before Congress in the 
 shape of a memorial, praying for that line 
 rather than the one defined in the Constitu- 
 tion. 
 
 Now I can see no serious objection to adop- 
 ting this course of allowing the people to ex- 
 press their wishes and memoralize Congress 
 upon the subject ; and as I can see nothing 
 in it that can embarass the action of Congress 
 upon the admission of Minnesota into the 
 Union, I shall support this resolution ; and I 
 do so for the purpose of giving the people an 
 opportunity of exprressing their preference. 
 If a majority should be favorable to an east 
 and west line, I can see no reason why Con- 
 gress should not look into it ; and if they 
 should do so, and see fit to make the change, 
 I for one shall find no fault — if a majority 
 desu*e an east and west line, and Congress 
 shall see fit to gratify that desire, I shall not 
 object. Left as I am in the southern portion 
 of the Territory, it makes but very little dif- 
 ference to me, or to the people of our county, 
 who go some one way and some the other on 
 this question. 
 
 With this expression of opinion, I certainly 
 can see no objection to submitting this matter 
 as a separate proposition to the people, and 
 Shall support the resolution. 
 
 Mr. KING. Mr. Chaieji an : I hope the re- 
 solution will be laid over. I wish to offer an 
 amendment extending the line a little further 
 north, so as to give us an outlet to Lake Su- 
 perior ; and if we cannot do this in any other 
 way, I would make it a jog as they did in 
 Pennsylvania. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Mr. Chairman : I think my- 
 self this had better be laid over, so that every 
 gentleman may have a fair opportunity of ex- 
 pressing his opinion ; and then, I should like 
 to see the question discussed by a full Con- 
 vention. 
 
 I see some practical difiBculties in the way 
 of our friends who are in favor of an east and 
 west line, that are likely to arise in bringing 
 about what they want. The case is this : 
 Congress has provided a north and south line. 
 We accept that, and go on and elect a Legis- 
 lature with that boundary. We go to work, 
 also, and elect members of Congress over the 
 whole ; and in due time, also, the Legislature 
 elects two Senators representing the whole to 
 the border. These Senators and Representa- 
 tives go on to Washington ; and then we will 
 suppose an east and west line to be adopted. 
 The whole thing is in chaos again. Yoiu* 
 Senators find themselves chosen by a Legisla- 
 ture not representing the State at all; and 
 your Representatives in Congress are in the 
 same predicament. They will find themselves 
 in the end, all in chaos. 
 
 I had supposed, Mr. Chairman, that this 
 question was settled ; that we had done with 
 it, after pleading and fighting over it, as we 
 did. Really, there ought to be an end of it 
 some time, it seems to me. I do not want to 
 go again into it — to the propriety of making 
 a State all long and no wide — extending from 
 Lake Superior to the Mississippi, embracing 
 some good country, and some waterless and 
 treeless districts, instead of putting it into a 
 more compact political and geographical form. 
 I do not want to go into this discussion now. 
 I think it better lie over. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Mr. Chairman, I 
 wish to say to the gentleman fi-om Dakota, 
 (Mr. Foster,) that it presents nothing like the 
 case manifesting itself to his mind. Of 
 course, in the Schedule, provision will be 
 made for the first Legislature. We shall 
 there district the State into representative 
 districts for Congress and the Legislature, 
 
416 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satubday, August 8. 
 
 and into judicial districts ; and this work will 
 have to be gone over again at the very first 
 session of the Legislature under this Consti- 
 tution. And I apprehend, sir, that no Le- 
 gislature will meet until after this Constitution 
 shall be adopted, and we are admitted into the 
 Union ; and when we shall be admitted into 
 the Union, then, as a matter of course, they 
 can cut up the State into districtsjustasthey 
 see proper. I can see nothing likely to bring 
 about those circumstances of trouble and dis- 
 arrangement spoken of by the gentleman, and 
 in my judgment they will not exist. I stated 
 to gentlemen, at the outset of this discussion, 
 when it was claimed by the gentleman from 
 Dakota and the gentleman from Rice, that the 
 moment we adopted the Congressional boun- 
 dary line, there would be no backing out. I 
 told these gentlemen, that I did not believe it, 
 and that they would hear from me in the mat- 
 ter again, subsequently to that time. 
 
 Now, Mr. Chaibman, it seems to me, that 
 this is only a question whether the voice of 
 the people shall be heard, or not ; whether 
 the intense popular desire and interest mani- 
 fested in certain portions of the Territory, 
 shall have a free expression through the ballot- 
 box or not; or, whether we will just shut 
 down, and say, the people shall not decide ! 
 they are such consummate fools they do not 
 know what boundary they ought to have! 
 Because we do not happen to think exactly as 
 they think, therefore the wishes of those peo- 
 ple living in the valley of the Minnesota river 
 shall not be respected. 
 
 I wish gentlemen who are opposed to this 
 proposition would just go back to fundamen- 
 tal principles — go back to that portion of this 
 Constitution which we have adopted in the 
 Bill of Rights, which treats of the fundamen- 
 tal right of man, and see whether the people 
 have not the right to be heard. It seems to 
 me, if they would do this, they would say : 
 it is just as well to adopt this at once; be- 
 cause, if we do not, we just say in effect, that 
 we know better than the people; that the 
 people do not know how to direct themselves 
 in this matter where the Enabling Act has 
 been interposed ; and, therefore, we will just 
 take the bits into our own mouths, and judge 
 for thim. I think the people arc just as com- 
 petent to direct and decide for themselves in 
 regard to boundary, as they are in regard to 
 
 other matters. I say again, the only ques- 
 tion here is, whether or not we shall stifle the 
 voice of the people ; and if gentlemen come 
 up to argue it, they will find they must argue 
 it on that point, ultimately, righteously and 
 republicanly. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I merely wish to make a 
 remark, Mr. Chaieman; I am not going to 
 speak in reply. The gentleman, in his reply, 
 has hardly got rid of the case I made. The 
 difficulty is in the first election of Represen- 
 tatives and Senators and members of Con- 
 gi'ess. However, the State may be subse- 
 quently districted, is another matter. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. Mr. Chairman: I was op- 
 posed to this proposition when it was up be- 
 fore. I thought it had been settled: but it seems 
 to have been again sprung upon us. I live, sir, 
 in the northern part of the Territory, and I 
 am still opposed to this. My whole constit- 
 uency are opposed to it, and I believe the 
 whole northern portion of the State to be- op- 
 posed to it. One reason for their opposition 
 is in the question of the railroad land gi'ants. 
 Here we have had about six millions of acres 
 of land granted for railroad purposes, and 
 nearly the whole of it is in the south half. 
 It is said that we are living in a country that 
 is good for nothing; but I affirm, if that is 
 anything, that our pine districts are good land. 
 We are willing, sir, if gentlemen will be guided 
 by fundamental principles, as has been re- 
 marked, to submit this question to the people, 
 and I claim, that we are acting upon funda- 
 mental principles so long as we act in con- 
 formity with the Enabling Act of Congress, 
 and no longer. We are not a legally organ- 
 ized body, if we depart from that. If the 
 boundary is to be changed at all, I prefer that 
 the Mississippi should be the line, and let us 
 on the the north side remain one Territorj\ 
 If the question is to be submitted to the peo- 
 ple, I would say, let us have the utmost free- 
 dom in it ; let every man vote just as he would 
 have it. And, then I would say, let the Mis- 
 sissippi river be the line ; and when you come 
 into the valley of the Minnesota river, let them 
 have a State to themselves if they will. 
 
 Mr. PHELPS. Mr. Chairman. I under- 
 stand it is the desire of gentlemen that this 
 resolution should be laid over ; and therefore 
 I will make the motion that the committee 
 now rise, and report the resolution back to 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Ttjesday, August 11. 
 
 41T 
 
 the Convention with a recommendation, that 
 it be laid on the table till to-morrow. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 So the committee rose, and the Chairman 
 reported accordingly. 
 
 The question being on postponement, 
 
 Mr. WILSON, said : Mr. President, this 
 is not the same proposition that has been be- 
 fore acted upon, and which was settled ; but, 
 as my friend (Mr. Coggs^-ell) has observed, 
 it is quite a different question. It is, whether 
 we wUl admit the people to express themselves 
 at the polls, on something vital to the interests 
 of every citizen of Minnesota; and I want 
 the name of every member upon the record 
 who will vote no, upon this question, against 
 the people expressing themselves at the ballot 
 box. I want to hear an argument, going to 
 show, that the Enabling Act is in our way. 
 We have never yet had one. I rather think 
 there will be found no great number here to 
 vote against the people expressing themselves 
 at the ballot box. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Mr. President : That argu- 
 ment has been used quite a number of times 
 here, "I would like to see the names of gen- 
 tlemen recorded against this or that," and I 
 would bravely suggest to my friend from 
 Winona, that, after using that argument, the 
 vote has usually been very strong against it. 
 I would suggest, that it better not be used. 
 
 Mr. AVILSON. I never adopted it before. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 So the resolution was laid over. 
 THE militia. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR, from the Committe on the 
 Militia, now submitted the following report, 
 (number nineteen) which was read a first and 
 second time, and laid on the table to be 
 printed. 
 
 " Sec. 1. The Militia of this State shall be com- 
 posed of all able bodied white male citizens, be- 
 tween the age of eighteen (18) and forty-five (45) 
 years, except such as are or may be exempt by the 
 laws of the United States, or of this State, and they 
 shall be enrolled in such manner as may be pro- 
 vided by law. 
 
 Sec. 2. The Legislature shall provide by law 
 for the organization, equipment and discipline of 
 such number of volunteer troops as they shall 
 deem necessary for the protection of the State and 
 the preservation of order. 
 
 Sec. 3. All officers of the militia (staflF officers 
 excepted) shall be elected by persons, subject to 
 
 53 
 
 military duty in their respective commands, in such 
 manner as shall be provided by law. 
 
 Sec. 4. The Governor shall appoint the Adju- 
 tant, Quarter Master, and Commissary Generals of 
 the State, and Major and Brigadier Generals and 
 Colonels ; and Colonels shall appoint their respec- 
 tive staff officers. 
 
 Sec 5. All commissioned officers shall be com- 
 missioned by the Governor, but no Commission 
 shall be issued for a longer time than hve years. 
 
 Sec. 6. Xo person having conscientious scru- 
 ples against bearing arms, shall be compeHed to do 
 miUtary duty in time of peace, but may be required 
 to pay an equivalent for such service. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. Mr. President : I would ask 
 if all the reports have been considered in 
 Committee of the Whole ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair is unable 
 to inform the gentleman. 
 
 And then, (at four o'clock, and twenty min- 
 utes,) on motion of Mr. Morgan, the Conven- 
 tion adjourned tiU to-morrow morning at nine 
 o'clock. 
 
 TWENTY-SIXTH DAY. 
 
 Tuesday, August 11, 1857. 
 
 The Convention met at 9 o'clock, a. m. 
 
 The Journal of yesterday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR, from the Cmmittee on En- 
 grossment, reported back as correctly en- 
 grossed, report number fourteen, on the Elec- 
 tive Franchise. 
 
 BOUNDABf LINE. 
 
 On motion of Mr. HARDING, the Conven- 
 tion resolved itself into a Committee of the 
 Whole (Mr. Thompson in the chair,) upon the 
 resolution offered yesterday by the gentleman 
 ffom Nicollet (Mr. Davis.) (For resolution, 
 see proceedings of yesterday.) 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I understand that my col- 
 league and fHend (Mr. Stannard,) did me 
 the honor yesterday to announce to the Con- 
 vention that I had some intention of express- 
 ing my opinion upon this question. It was 
 not my intention to inflict a speech upon the 
 Convention, though I am certainly opposed to 
 the resolution, and shall vote against it with- 
 out hesitation. The reason why I did not 
 think of speaking upon the question, was be- 
 cause the reasons why it should not pass, ap- 
 peared to me so obvious and clear, that it 
 hardly needs to be remarked upon. The rea- 
 
418 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesdat, August 11. 
 
 s<m why I am opposed to it, and think it 
 should be rejected, is found in the position in 
 which it will place our Constitution, and in 
 the doubt which it will throw upon our pros- 
 pect of a speedy admission. If we once pass 
 out of the field which was within the purview 
 of Congress when they passed the Enabling 
 Act, we are in great danger of having our 
 claim to admission rejected. It is well known 
 that that act was passed with great difficulty, 
 and that outside of that act, we have no claim 
 upon Congress. As I understand that act, it 
 was fi-amed expressly with reference to the 
 subject, that we might become a State without 
 any further action of Congress. I imder- 
 siand that any action whatever, in departure 
 from that act, will bring us again before Con- 
 gress,and place us in extreme peril, a position in 
 which we ought not to be placed under any 
 circumstances whatever. 
 
 The gentleman from Nicollet (Mr. Davis) 
 has said that this resolution if passed will op- 
 erate merely as a memorial by which to bring 
 the subject before Congress. That of itself 
 is sufficient reason why it should be rejected. 
 Congress would then be authorized to dispute 
 the right of our senators and representatives 
 that we may send there ; and Congress, that 
 so bitterly opposes the admission of every free 
 State, that nearly refused admission to Cali- 
 fornia, that nearly failed to pass the Enabling 
 Act, would easily seize upon that as a pre- 
 text to embarrass the subject of our admission, 
 and might postpone th«t event for a long pe- 
 riod of time. If we know that the last House 
 was Republican, or nearly balanced, we know 
 that the next House will be Democratic ftnd 
 much more strongly opposed to the admission 
 of Minnesota than the last was ; while the 
 Senate would seek a pretext for preventing 
 her admission. Minnesota was thought then 
 to be Democratic, while we now believe her 
 to be Republican. That, of course, would be 
 an additional reason, and a strong one, for 
 rejecting her. I honestly believe that any 
 such action upon our part would ensure the 
 rejection of the application of this State, as 
 an independent State, for a considerable length 
 of time, I will not undertake to say how long. 
 I cannot conceive of any tiling more insane 
 and suicidal than such action upon the part of 
 this Convention, and I do not understand 
 what reason there is now, for any such action. 
 
 It is said that there have been pubUc meet- 
 ings held upon this subject in certain locali- 
 ties, and it is said that the reasons which op- 
 erate in this case are not of a national char- 
 acter ; not of a character that looks to the in- 
 terests of the State in a large point of view ; 
 but that they grow out simply on the ques- 
 tion of the removal of the capitol. Now that 
 is a point upon which I am absolutely indif- 
 ferent. If the people wish to move it, I shall 
 raise no objection, but I protest strongly 
 against this Convention being operated upon 
 by the movements of gentlemen who have 
 that in view. It is not a subject which properly 
 concerns this Convention, nor should consid- 
 erations growing out of that question sway 
 their minds at all here. I think those gentle- 
 men who come up here and try to influence 
 our action by such motives, show no case 
 whatever why we should peril the probabDity 
 of our admission as a State, and render it 
 problematical whether we shall be admitted. 
 I think the action they recommend is repro- 
 bated upon its face, under the circumstances 
 in which we are placed. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I propose to amend, by 
 inserting after the words " up the main chan- 
 " nel of the Mississippi river," the words, " to 
 " the mouth of the Chippewa river, thence up 
 " the main channel of the Chippewa river to 
 "its source; thence in a right line to the 
 "46th parallel of north latitude." 
 
 Much has been said about making this a 
 square State and I think while we are about 
 it, we might as well go the whole figure. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I had hoped that 
 some gentleman would rise in his place and 
 show some reason why this resolution should 
 not be adopted. I did hope that some of 
 those men who are so bitterly opposed to 
 leaving this question to be decided by the 
 people, would come here this morning and 
 give us some substantial reasons why tliis 
 question should not be left, to the people, to 
 be decided by them as they see fit I did 
 not suppose that an amendment such as has 
 been oflfered by the gentleman from Chisago 
 (Mr. STANNABD)Vould havo been introduced, 
 and introduced in place of an argument. 1 
 did not suppose that a gcntleuaan of the 
 standing of my friend from Chisago would 
 undertake to throw burlesque upon this ques- 
 tion, and I regret it very much. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 11. 
 
 419 
 
 Mr. Chairman, this is simply a question as 
 to whether the people shall decide this ques- 
 tion ofTboundary themselves. And gentlemen 
 seek to avoid that issue by introducing amend- 
 ments which are of a character which tend to 
 throw ridicule and burlesque upon the ques- 
 tion. The gentleman who preceded the gen- 
 tleman from Chisago stated honestly and fairly 
 that he should vote against this resolution ; 
 and he went on to give his reasons. Those 
 reasons were, substantially, that by voting for 
 this resolution he would be lending a hand in 
 carrying out a proposition that would embar- 
 rass our admission into'the Union ; in other 
 words, that if this resolution was adopted, 
 and this proposition was submitted to the peo- 
 ple as a separate proposition, that the ten- 
 dency would be to embarrass our admission 
 into the Union as a State. If that is so, the 
 objection is a good and cogent one. Let us 
 examine it and see if it is true. The resolu- 
 tion simply proposes to leave the question of 
 boimdary to the people to be decided by 
 them. It proposes to leave it to them in the 
 shape of a separate proposition, and it pro- 
 poses to leave it in such a manner that the 
 people simply express theu" wish and prefer- 
 ence in regard to what this boundary line 
 shall be. Now sir, it is admitted here, that 
 we will "submit other questions as separate 
 propositions — as, for instance, the question as 
 to the right of colored persons to vote. Has 
 any gentleman risen in his place here and 
 said that by submitting such a proposition, 
 we embarrass our admission into the Union 
 as a State ? Not at all. No such argument 
 has been made use of, when it has been urged 
 here that we should submit that proposition 
 as a separate proposition to be voted on by 
 the people. 
 
 Now if that proposition does not embarrass 
 our admission into the Union as a State, how 
 happens it that this proposition, if submitted 
 to the people in the same way and manner, 
 is going to operate to embarrass our admission 
 into the Union ? Will gentlemen tell us the 
 reasons ? I tell you, Mr. Chaibman, that it is 
 not going to embarrass our admission into the 
 Union at all, and I say that simply submitting 
 this question to the people to be decided by 
 them, in the shape of a preference, or wish, 
 or desire, not only will not embarrass our 
 admission into the Union, but will tend to 
 
 expedite our admission as a State, and I will 
 tell yoi? why. It has been stated by the 
 gentleman from Chisago (Mr. Lowe) that 
 there is but little feeling in regard to this 
 matter, and that that feeling has arisen in 
 certain localities from a desire to have the 
 Capitol removed to their locality. Now, sir, 
 I stand here, speaking for that section of the 
 country, and say that the majority of that 
 people repudiate the idea of having the Capitol 
 removed there for the present, to say the 
 least of it. In talking with those men about 
 this subject of boundary, they all say that 
 their interest in it does not arise from their 
 wish to have the Capitol removed to their 
 section of the country; for they do not 
 expect that, for a long time to come ; that 
 they want this East and West line adopted 
 for the reason that it will make us a rich and 
 powerful State. Such is the reason they 
 urge. 
 
 But as I said yesterday, I do not propose to 
 enter into a discussion of the merits of the ques- 
 tion. Whatever may be said, both for and 
 against this East and West line, may be said 
 to the people when this proposition is properly 
 before them. But upon this naked question 
 as to whether we will submit it, it seems to 
 me that there should be but one sentiment. 
 It seems to me as though we should have full 
 confidence in the people, and say to them that 
 they are competent to settle this question- 
 just as competent to decide the judiciary, or 
 the negro, or any other propositions which 
 may be submitted to them for their rejection 
 or ratification. 
 
 If there were any truth in the assertion that 
 it would tend to embarrass us in the least, in 
 the matter of our admission into the Union, I 
 should say that that was a consideration which 
 we shovild take into view. If it is voted down 
 as a matter of course, we come into the Union 
 just as well ; and if voted for by a majority, 
 it goes with the Constitution to Congress just 
 the same as the negro question goes there, 
 and it is for Congress to determine whether 
 they will grant that preference or not, just as 
 it is for Congress to say whether or not we 
 have a Republican Constitution, when that 
 negro clause is in it. If Congress sees fit to 
 grant our desire we shall rejoice at it, and i f 
 they refuse to grant it, they do no less than 
 they did to the State of Wisconsin. At the 
 
4^0 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 11. 
 
 time Wisconsin formed her Constitution, she 
 inserted an article like this. 
 
 "Provided, however, that the following altera- 
 tion of the aforesaid boundary be and hereby is 
 proposed to the Congress of the United States, 
 as the preference of the State of Wisconsin, and 
 if the same shall be assented and agreed to by the 
 Congress of the United States, then the same shall 
 be and forever remain obligatory on the State of 
 Wisconsin, &c." 
 
 That was incorporated into her Constitu- 
 tion without having the question submitted to 
 the people all. It was made part and parcel 
 of her Constitution under an Enabling Act 
 precisely like ours in all essential particulars. 
 It was sent to Congress, and Congress rejected 
 it, but there was no trouble. She came into 
 : the Union just as exactly as well as she would 
 have done, provided that provision had not 
 been contained in her Constitution. There 
 was no embarrassment there, and it seems to 
 me that if there were no embarrassment there, 
 there can be no embarrassment in our case. 
 All that Congress has to do is to say whether 
 she will grant our petition or not. She can 
 do neither more nor less than she did in the 
 Wisconsin case. That is all a perfect hum- 
 bug. It is all hue and cry got up for the 
 purpose of shielding certain gentlemen in 
 voting in a manner substantially saying that 
 the people are not competent to decide this 
 question for themselves; for it is nothing 
 more or less than the question whether the 
 people are qualified to decide for themselves 
 or not. Whether an East and West line is 
 the better line, or a North and South line is 
 the better line, I do not pretend to say. We 
 will discuss that question before the people, 
 and I want it before the people so that they 
 can discuss it, and when it is, I shall take 
 such sides as my judgment approves. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. As the gentleman has made 
 special reference to some remarks of mine, I 
 beg the indulgence^ of the Convention for a 
 moment again. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Will the gentleman from 
 Chisago allow me to offer an amendment just 
 here, and then I will yield the floor to him. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. Certainly. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I withdraw my amend- 
 ment 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I offer the following substi- 
 tute for the resolution : 
 
 "The people are hereby authorized to vote on a 
 separate ballot for such boundary line for the State 
 of Minnesota as they shall desire; and if a majority 
 of all the votes cast for and against the Constitu- 
 tion shall be in favor of a different line from that 
 prescribed in the first article of this Constitution, 
 the said vote, on being certified by the Governor 
 of this State to both Houses of Congress, shall be 
 the memorial of the people of Minnesota, asking 
 Congress to modify the boundary line of Minne- 
 sota, in the manner and form indicated as afore- 
 said, by the votes of a majority of the people." 
 
 Mr. LOWE. The point of controversy 
 between the gentleman from Steele county 
 (Mr. Coggswell) .and myself is simply 
 whether such action, on our part, as he 
 recommends, would be hkely to embarrass 
 the admission of Minnesota into the Union as 
 a State. I feel that the inevitable result must 
 be so, if it should be accepted by Congress. 
 If it should be rejected, as it was in the case 
 of Wisconsin, it is true it might not have that 
 effect. But our case is different from what 
 theirs was. In the case of Wisconsin, no 
 objection whatever was anticipated. No 
 objection was made in Congress to the passage 
 of their Enabling Act. 
 
 But I take it that if we go to Congress as 
 a Republican State, we shall be encountered 
 by all the opposition that can possibly be 
 made ; and hence it is necessary to use ex- 
 treme caution in our movements. I would 
 not object to leaving the question to the peo- 
 ple imder ordinary circumstances, but I do 
 object to it, in view of the circumstances in 
 which this Convention is placed. If there is 
 any such thing as good sense, and discretion, 
 in regard to the future, I maintain that the 
 course we should take under such cu'cum- 
 stances as the present is one of extreme cau- 
 tion. Any other course would expose the 
 future of Minnesota to imminent danger. 1 
 say It in spite of the gentleman's assertion, 
 and I appeal to the Convention if I am not 
 right in my position. If this proposition 
 should pass and be accepted by Congress — 
 and it might be for the very purpose of em- 
 barrassing our future — then our choice of 
 Senators and Representatives falls to the 
 ground, and the whole Constitution falls to 
 ' the ground also. What right has this body 
 to make a Constitution for Southern Minne- 
 sota ? This Constitution is not made by the 
 people of that section, and the moment you 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Tcesdat, August 11. 
 
 421 
 
 change the boundaries all our labors fall to 
 the ground, if Congress accepts that boun- 
 dary. 
 
 That is a fair view of the case, and a view, 
 which many members of Congress would like 
 to take. The ascendancy of the southern 
 Democracy, both in the Senate and House of 
 Representatives, came near defeating the En- 
 abling Act, in spite of the efforts of the dele- 
 gate from this Territory, who used all the 
 efforts possible to be used. I say, in spite of 
 all that, the southern ascendancy nearly pre- 
 vented the passage of the Enabling Act, 
 when there was not a shadow of reason for 
 it. What, then, will they do, when they 
 have not only a shadow of reason, but a good 
 reason for embarrassing the admission of our 
 Territory as a State? I will not insult the 
 understanding of this Convention by under- 
 taking to argue that question. It looks to me 
 self-evident upon the face of it, and I am wil- 
 ling to leave the matter with the Conven- 
 tion. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I am in favor of the sub- 
 stitute offered by the gentleman from Dakota, 
 (Mr. Fosteb) and I shall vote for it, and 
 against the resolution. I do not see why this 
 Convention shoiold establish a line different 
 from that which was given to us by Congress. 
 If they are going to submit the question to 
 the people at all, let them leave it to their 
 choice entirely untrammeled. Let them be 
 their own judges, and let not the Convention 
 dictate to them upon what particular boun- 
 dary they shall vote. The time Republican 
 doctrine is to leave the question to the people 
 unrestrained by any such restrictions. If 
 this Convention wishes to debar us from the 
 benefits of the Enabling Act, and thereby 
 throw obstacles in the way of our coming 
 into the Union upon an equal footing with the 
 original States, let us decide so at once ; let 
 us go back and reconsider the vote by which 
 we accepted the Enabling Act. But if we 
 are going to stand by that act, let us stand up 
 to it fairly and squarely without dodging. I 
 contend that in sending out to the people the 
 Constitution which we are framing, with the 
 boundaries established by the Government, 
 we do leave" the people to decide whether or 
 not they are satisfied with the boundaries. If 
 they are not satisfied let them reject the Con- 
 stitution. I contend that we have no right to 
 
 depart from the boundaries laid down by Con- 
 gress. But if we are going to submit the 
 question at all, let every one vote as he sees 
 fit. I am satisfied that a majority of the peo- 
 ple are not in favor of the boundary proposed 
 in the resolution. I know that the whole 
 northern portion of the Territory, if an east 
 and west Une is to be forced upon them, do 
 not wish that line to be upon the forty-sixth 
 degree of north latitude. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. It is a little amusing, and 
 a little astonishing, that men, with apparent 
 honest, sober faces, will talk as my friend has 
 done who has just taken his seat ; and cer- 
 tainly I am astonished that any gentleman 
 should offer such an amendment as has been 
 offered by the gentleman from Dakota if he 
 is in earnest about the matter. If gentlemen 
 want to while away time, as though they 
 were at some school boy lyceum, it might 
 do ; but when men are acting upon a matter 
 of vital importance to the people, to trifle 
 in this manner with the Convention is what I 
 do not understand. Who does not know that 
 if this question is submitted to a vote of the 
 people as proposed by the substitute, there 
 will be some dozen different lines voted for ? 
 Who does not know that there will be no 
 unanimity ? To remove the seat of govern- 
 ment from St. Paul, it would be necessary 
 that a greater number of votes be cast in 
 favor of any one particular place, than one 
 half the whole number of votes cast for all 
 other places. Now where there are five or 
 six different lines proposed there are five or 
 six to one against us. It comes with bad 
 grace for gentlemen to amend our proposition, 
 who are themselves opposed to it in toto, and 
 forsooth, its most deadly enemies. Our own 
 fiiends can amend our own proposition. They 
 who want a different line from the one already 
 agreed upon — the line of the Enabling Act — 
 may come up and assist in amending it. But 
 . gentlemen who are opposed to any change, 
 ought to be satisfied to vote against it, and to 
 meddle with it otherwise shows what it is 
 done for. Those of us who want a boundary 
 different from the one contained in the Ena- 
 bling Act, ask for the boimdary agreed upon 
 in the resolution. I do not know that there 
 is any difference of opinion among them upon 
 that. 
 
 As I said yesterday, I represent two coun- 
 
422 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 11. 
 
 ties, in one of which probably two-thirds of 
 the inhabitants are in favor of the north and 
 south line, proposed in the Enabling Act. I 
 objected to acting upon this resolution yester- 
 day in the absence of the delegates from that 
 county. One of those delegates is present 
 to-day, and one of the delegates from my own 
 county, who is a strong east and west line 
 man, is absent, and I stand here upon this 
 floor the sole representative from that county, 
 in favor of this proposed change. I support 
 it because I believe it will be for the greatest 
 good of the greatest number of the people of 
 this Territory, embraced within the limits of 
 the proposed State. I gave notice, a day or 
 two since, that I should introduce a proposi- 
 tion of this kind myself; but I found that my 
 friend from Nicollet had bestowed a great deal 
 more labor upon it than I had, find was doing 
 his best to carry such a proposition. It is of- 
 fered by him, and comes properly from him. 
 He lives in a county where there is much feel- 
 ing upon the subject. I am glad to operate 
 with him, and if the proposition carries, he 
 will deserve a great deal of praise — for praise 
 it will be. 
 
 It is said, in opposition to this resolution, 
 that Congress has proposed boundaries for 
 us, and therefore we are restricted, and have 
 no right to say anything about another line. 
 Now I happened to be in Washington at the 
 time the boundaries were fixed, and I know 
 the influences which were brought to bear 
 upon the committee of the House of Repre- 
 sentatives who reported the bill establishing 
 this boundary. I know who labored day and 
 night with that committee ; I know who stated 
 that it was a sine qua noii for the admission 
 of Minnesota. I do know a few leading men, 
 who made that committee, and who made 
 Congress believe, that they represented the 
 wishes of the people of Minnesota, when they 
 represented that that was the boundary de- 
 sired by the people of this Territory — leading 
 men of both parties, I will say, both Demo- 
 crats and Republicans. I, for one, remon- 
 strated against it. But I was a stranger 
 among them. One of the committee voted 
 against it, and one of my acquaintances voted 
 against it, and opposed it to the bitter end. 
 Most of the committee — for there was an im- 
 mense pressure brought to bear upon them — 
 went in favor of the boundary proposed in 
 
 the Enabling Act, because they were made to 
 believe that the people of Minnesota wished 
 it so. I can speak from actual knowledge, 
 and I think no gentleman can deny what I 
 state ; I have no doubt whatever that Con- 
 gress would as freely admit us under the 
 boundaries proposed in this resolution, as un- 
 der those of the Enabling Act, and I do not 
 believe that any gentleman upon this floor has 
 any gi'ound for believing otherwise. No one 
 shows, or pretends to show that it would be 
 any disadvantage to Congress to admit us 
 with diiferent boundaries. Now it is a mat- 
 ter susceptible of proof that the whole West 
 is interested in having the boundaries pro- 
 posed in this resolution. It is for the interest 
 of the whole West to have as large a repre- 
 sentation in Congress as possible, and I think 
 any man can see that this change will give us 
 two additional United States Senators much 
 sooner than if the north and south line is ad- 
 hered to. This is a matter which the people 
 of the North-west feel an interest in. Who 
 does not know that, if we take the bounda- 
 ries proposed in the resolution, we shall soon 
 have another State north of this ? Who does 
 not know that it will increase in population 
 much faster, if set off" by itself? Now if 
 Congress would not admit us, it must be be- 
 cause we are cutting up the Territory and 
 leaving it in a bad shape for another State. 
 Now gentlemen's own arguments show that 
 we leave the remaining Territory in a better 
 shape. Therefore, it would be for the interest 
 of Congress to admit us with those bounda- 
 ries, rather than the boundaries proposed by 
 the Enabling Act. 
 
 But, as remarked by my fi-iend from Steele 
 county, (Mr. Coggsweli^) I am not going to 
 argue this question further. I have, perhaps, 
 talked about it as much as any gentleman 
 in this Convention. But I wish to say this 
 much further, that here is a proposition to 
 test the correctness of the representations 
 made last winter by our leading men at 
 Washington, as to the wishes of our people 
 in reference to this north and south line. I 
 say that I really believe that the people of 
 this Territory do prefer an east and west line 
 to that proposed in the Enabling Act. And 
 I say here again, that I do not see how gen- 
 tlemen, and especially gentlemen who have 
 had no objection before tliis, can believe that 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 11. 
 
 423 
 
 we should be excluded from coming into the 
 Union on account of rejecting the boundaries 
 of the Enabling Act, and choosing some other. 
 Let the people say what they do want, and 
 let us see whether they want an east and west, 
 or a north and south line. 
 
 Let our people see that we are not of those 
 who forbid them from having a fair apportion- 
 ment. The scenes of the last winter were 
 the most disgraceful ever enacted in this Ter- 
 ritory. The Legislature prevented the people 
 from having a fair apportionment and a fair 
 representation in this Constitutional Conven- 
 tion ; and they said boldly, that if they should 
 let the people have it, they would go in for 
 an east and west line of division. 
 
 As to this matter of removal of the Capital, 
 let me say that I had no sympathy with that 
 Capital movement last winter. I deemed it 
 impolitic and unwise, and was opposed to it. 
 I thought the movement was premature, 
 though the majority were actuated by the 
 best motives and thought they were doing 
 the best thing imaginable. I have no feeling 
 in common with them upon that one point. 
 That is not what we are after now. We are 
 after the greatest good for the whole people 
 of Minnesota. We are testing this question 
 of boundary fairly, and every one can meet 
 us fairly. I hope the matter will be left to 
 the people, so that Congress may know ,what 
 the people want from their own mouths, and 
 not be dependent upon the representations of 
 interested parties. As I said, on a former 
 occasion, the first petition which was ever got 
 up for the Enabling Act, was got up in and 
 around Winona. We all worked for it there, 
 with the express understanding that it was to 
 be with an east and west boundary. That 
 petition went to Congress ; I saw it there ; 
 and therent was used as a petition for a north 
 and south line, contrary to our express wishes. 
 It was used for a purpose to which, above all 
 others, we were opposed. 
 
 As to the substitute proposed by the gen- 
 tleman from Hastings, (Mr. Foster) I want 
 to see it voted down of course, and I do not 
 think there ought to be any ceremony upon 
 it. I hope gentlemen who are not friendly to 
 this movement at all, who want to kill it 
 by direction or indirection, will not trouble us 
 with amendments which amount to nothing 
 except for delay. If they think that any man 
 
 here upon our side is foolish enough to 
 be led off by any such thing as that, I want 
 to show them that they are mistaken. As to 
 taking in part of Wisconsin, as proposed by 
 the gentleman from Chisago, that is just as 
 plausible as this substitute. They are both 
 of a piece. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. It is rather unfortu- 
 nate for my colleague Mr. Lowe, and myself, 
 that we have to stand almost alone from the 
 northern part of the Territory. It so hap- 
 pens that nearly all the delegates from the 
 northern part of the Territory belong in the 
 other wing of the Capitol. But, sir, I cannot 
 sit here quietly and hear such remarks as 
 have been uttered upon this floor. I hardly 
 know whether the gentleman from Winona 
 (Mr. Wilson) in using the term "humbug" 
 referred to me or to the gentleman from Da- 
 kota, (Mr. Foster) in reference to the treat- 
 ment we were disposed to observe towards 
 this resolution. I believe, in the first place, 
 that Congress has the right to dispose of, and 
 make all needful rules and regulations re- 
 specting the Territories of the United States, 
 and that they have the right to prescribe our 
 boundaries. We have been let into the secret 
 agencies and causes which perhaps operated at 
 Washington last winter, in procuring the 
 passage of this Enabling Act. But, sir, I am 
 confident that the committee on Territories 
 had in view, at the same time, the interest of 
 the whole Northwest, and had in view the 
 future projected States, when they carved out 
 the State of Minnesota as described in the En- 
 abling Act, and that they had an eye single 
 to the formation of other States. It is said 
 that we manifest an undue feeling in regard 
 to this matter. Let us look at the case as it 
 stands. Here is a projected east and west 
 line, which does not intersect the district of 
 either the gentlemen from Nicollet (Mr. Davis) 
 or the district of the gentleman from Winona, 
 (Mr. Wilson). It in no way disfranchises 
 any portion of their constituents. Nor does 
 it divide them from their natural thorough- 
 fares. On the other hand the line which the 
 gentlemen propose to submit to the people, 
 does cut in two my district. Now where 
 does the proposition come from? Does it 
 come from those whose districts are cut up 
 by a north and south line ? Not at all. And 
 I can see no other reason why they should 
 
424 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August .11 
 
 urge it, than that it will change the geograph- 
 ical centre of the State, and bring the seat of 
 government, eventually, into one or the other 
 of those gentleman's districts. If so, then I 
 can understand why the gentleman from Wi- 
 nona feels so much interest in it. The Capi- 
 tol of the State, whenever located, must, ne- 
 cessarily bring with it a great deal of business 
 to the people; and consequently Winona, 
 occupying the position she does, must neces- 
 sarily be the outlet of that business, and of 
 course it would be for her benefit. 
 
 I believe that the Enabling Act is just as 
 binding upon us as any act of Congress, and 
 I introduced my amendment merely that gen- 
 tlemen might see where they stood. I am 
 glad that the gentleman from Steele county 
 (Mr. Coggswell) referred to the case of Wis- 
 consin. A portion of my district was settled 
 at that very time, and one gentleman who 
 now occupies a seat in the other end of the 
 Capitol was a member of that Wisconsin Con- 
 vention, and it is a fact that he lived as much 
 upon this side of the St. Croix river as upon 
 the other. He represented this whole Terri- 
 tory, and that portion of this Territory lying 
 north of the Mississippi river, was the only 
 portion to which the Indian title had been 
 extinguished, and it was then the wish of the 
 people of that part of this Territory — and the 
 gentlemen in the other wing of the Capitol to 
 whom I have referred supported that wish — 
 to come under the State government of Wis- 
 consin. And the clause in their Constitution 
 which the gentleman from Steele county read, 
 shows that the only then settled portion of 
 Minnesota, was included within that proposed 
 alteration of boundary. The] people were 
 anxious to come under a State government 
 but Congress refused to admit them, and now 
 gentlemen would shut us out again. 
 
 It has been charged upon the Legislature 
 of last winter that they refused to make an 
 apportionment. 
 
 Now, Mr. Chaieman, I do pretend to know 
 something about that matter. An apportion- 
 ment bill was prepared, in the House of Rep- 
 resentatives, which nearly doubled the repre- 
 sentation of Southern Minnesota, and lessened 
 the representation of Northern Minnesota, and 
 I do know that the representatives from 
 Northern Minnesota supported that bill in the 
 
 House of Representatives. I can show it by 
 the journal of the House. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. As this is a matter 
 of considerable interest to my constituents, 
 I hope the* committee will indulge me in ma- 
 king a few further remarks in regard to the 
 amendment proposed by the gentleman from 
 Dakota (Mr. Fosteb.) I wish to say here, 
 that if I believed his proposition were more 
 Republican than ours, and we had the ability 
 to carry out that proposition to the extent to 
 which he seems to think we might we carry 
 it, I certainly would go for it. But we must 
 recollect that we were sent here for the pur- 
 pose of framing certain propositions to be sub- 
 mitted to the, people. We came here for the 
 purpose of framing certain propositions as to 
 the rights of men. Those propositions are 
 incorporated in what we term the Bill of Rights , 
 and none of those propositions amount to 
 anything until they have been sanctioned and 
 ratified by the people. We came here to 
 frame certain propositions in regard to the 
 executive branch of our State government. 
 None of those propositions amount to any- 
 thing until ratified by the people. We came 
 here too for the ^purpose of framing certain 
 propositions in regard to the legislative and 
 judicial branches of our State government. 
 None of those propositions amount to any- 
 thing until they have been ratified by the peo- 
 ple. 
 
 Now sir, if it is not our duty to frame cer- 
 tain specific propositions to submit to the peo- 
 ple, why not submit the whole thing to the 
 people ; why not let the people go to the ballot 
 boxes, and let each one deposit in the ballot 
 box his whole idea in regard to a Constitution 
 and State government ? Let one man go to 
 the ballot box and say that a black man may 
 be governor of the State of Minnesiota; let 
 another man say that only a white man shall 
 be governor ; let another man go to the bal- 
 lot box and say that the governor shall hold 
 office two years ; Jmd another say he may 
 hold ten years ; let one man go to the ballot 
 box and say that no man, unless he is an 
 Irishman, shall be judge of a District Court ; 
 and another may say that no man shall be a 
 District Judge unless he was born in the 
 State of Massachusetts ; let one man go to 
 the ballot box and say that no man shall be 
 judge who has more than one eye ; and an- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 11. 
 
 425 
 
 other man that no person shall be judge un- 
 less he has a lame leg ; let men go to the bal- 
 lot boxes and deposit all these conceivable 
 ridiculous propositions. No more ridiculous 
 would that be, than this proposition of the 
 gentleman from Dakota. Just carry this same 
 thing into practical operation, in regard to an 
 east and west line ; let one man go to the bal- 
 lot box and say that the State of Minnesota 
 shall be composed solely of Dakota County ; 
 let another man say through the ballot box 
 that the State shall be composed of only a 
 particular district which will subserve his po- 
 litical interests. 
 
 How ridiculous, does all this thing appear. 
 Now we all know that we came here for the 
 purpose of framing definite and specific pro- 
 positions ; and such, and such only must 
 be submitted to the people. We cannot sub- 
 mit any question in the manner proposed by 
 the amendment of the gentleman from Dakota 
 County. He, too, knows it, and he takes the 
 course he has, for the purpose of avoiding the 
 responsibility of coming up manfully and say- 
 ing to a large portion of the people of Minne- 
 sota that they shall not have the right of ex- 
 pressing their sentiments in regard to this 
 east and west line. 
 
 Now if there were any feeling in any part 
 or portion of the Territory in regard to any 
 other line than the one proposed in this reso- 
 lution, then I should be in favor of respect- 
 ing that sentiment and of submitting a speci- 
 fic proposition, and of allowing the people to 
 express their views and sentiments in regard 
 to it. If there were any particular feeling in 
 regard to any particular line, and it amounted 
 to anything like the feeling in regard to the 
 line we have proposed, I certainly should be 
 in favor of submitting it as a separate propo- 
 sition. But there is no feeling in regard to 
 any other line than the one mentioned in this 
 resolution. 
 
 Now in regard to aU this talk which we 
 have heard, in regard to the efforts which 
 were made in Congress to secure this particu- 
 lar line, laid down in the Enabling Act, I 
 have nothing to say, for the reason that it has 
 nothing to do with the question before us. In 
 regard to what was done in the Legislature in 
 regard to an apportionment different from the 
 one which now exists, I have nothing to say 
 because it has no connection with the subject 
 54 
 
 under consideration. The only question be- 
 fore us is whether this question shall be sub- 
 mitted as a separate proposition, and when 
 that question is brought before the people, we 
 can tell them of all the trickery and knavery 
 which existed at the time this north and south 
 line was proposed and carried through Con- 
 gress; we can tell them what consummate 
 rascals we had in the last Legislature, and 
 , how they would not allow us of southern 
 Minnesota to send up here a proper represen- 
 tation ; we can tell them of the benefits, the 
 advantages and disadvantages, which will arise 
 from the adoption of this east and west line. 
 But all these things have nothing to do with 
 the question as it now stands. When it 
 comes before the people, my friend from Chi- 
 sago (Mr. Stannakd) will have an opportunity 
 to go before his constituents and urge them 
 to vote against this east and west line, because 
 it will cut them in two ; because it will cut 
 them across the fifth rib ; because his chance 
 to get to the Legislature will not be so good 
 as they would otherwise be, and therefore, 
 for Heaven's sake vote against it. Now that 
 is a good argument before the people ; but 
 they have nothing to do here with this ques- 
 tion, as to whether or not th question shall 
 be submitted to the people, and I desire that 
 gentlemen instead of lugging in all these ex- 
 traneous matters, which are proper to be 
 urged before the people, when the question is 
 before them, would come up now and meet 
 the question fairly. If gentlemen will come 
 forward and say that there is any feeling in 
 regard to any other line, which amounts to 
 anything, though it should cut Steele County 
 right in two, I certainly will vote for submit- 
 ting it to the people. And why ? Because I 
 believe it would be carrying out the doctrine 
 of popular sovereignty — the right and power 
 and capacity of the people to control and 
 govern and decide these questions for them- 
 selves. 
 
 I will not be backward or behind in this 
 matter. I will not urge against it the argu- 
 ment which is urged against us — that it cuts 
 my district in two. Notwithstanding I may 
 suffer, I will vote for it, and t ask gentle- 
 men to come up and meet this question fairly, 
 as to whether this question shall be submit- 
 ted to the people or not. If they say tha 
 there are any four, six or eight counties that 
 
426 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tcesday, August 11. 
 
 have any feeling in regard to any other par- 
 ticular lino, let us have their proposition. 
 We have got, at least seven or eight counties 
 in this Territory, which are deeply interested 
 in regard to this line, and which say out 
 plumply, and absolutely, that unless they 
 have an opportunity to express their views in 
 regard to this matter, they will vote against 
 the Constitution which is submitted for their 
 rejection or adoption. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. It has been reiterated 
 again that the proposition last winter, to give 
 southern Minnesota her fair representation, 
 was defeated in the House of Representatives. 
 Sir, I deny that. It did pass the House of 
 Representatives. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL, I said that when I 
 went before the people, I would discuss that 
 question and see whether it was true or not. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. My objection to this 
 proposition is fast giving away, if the object 
 is to manufacture thunder for gentlemen to 
 use before the people. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I submitted my substitute 
 because it has been my uniform practice here, 
 as all know, if I cannot get exactly the prop- 
 osition I want, to endeaver to put such 
 propositions as are submitted to us, in the 
 best possible shape before I am called to 
 vote upon them, even though I do not like 
 them at all. That is a fair rule in legislation. 
 I think when gentlemen talk about trifling, 
 it is they that are trifling; and when they 
 talk about smothering the voice of the people, 
 it is they that are trying to smother the voice 
 of the people. 
 
 If there is anything in this matter of submit- 
 ting to the voice of the people, my proposition 
 does it in the most effectual and broadest 
 manner. It does not mark out a chalk line, 
 and say that if the people choose to vote for 
 that line, they shall have the privilege, and 
 that they shall not have the privilege of vot- 
 ing for any other line. I have my doubts 
 about the propriety of submitting questions 
 of this kind to the people. They have issues 
 enough before them, and to throw in this 
 local issue, this speculative issue, this ques- 
 tion as to where the Capitol shall be, or 
 where certain town sites shall grow up — all 
 of which are involved in this question— is 
 impolitic and unwise. It ought not to bo 
 brought in and made a bono of contention. 
 
 As a general rule it is not best to submit any- 
 thing but a question involving a principle, 
 and this does not. The question as to whether 
 the word "white" should or should not be 
 stricken from the Constitution, involves a 
 great principle, and is proper to be submitted 
 to the people. But it is a matter of doubtful 
 propriety, to say the least of it, to submit to 
 the people a question of mere detail — such as 
 the establishment of a particular line — especi- 
 ally after Congress has prescribed a line. 
 But if the question is to go to the people, and 
 they are to decide, I say do not restrict them 
 to any one or two lines. Let them have the 
 largest liberty to express their opinions upon 
 the subject, I find that those gentlemen who 
 talk so much about smothering the voice of 
 the people, favor smothering it, whenever it 
 does not exactly suit their purposes to have it 
 expressed. We have had some expose of the 
 motives which were brought to bear in 
 Washington in order to get this North and 
 South line. The gentleman from Winona 
 (Mr. Wilson) tells us that certain influential 
 and prominent men managed that matter, and 
 fixed the line, and I think that a majority of 
 the Minnesotians there would probably have a 
 large influence in determining the line reported 
 by the committee on Territories. If we submit 
 the matter of boundary again, how do we 
 know but what the same influences will be 
 brought to bear, and we have all this trouble 
 and contest for nothing? The gentleman, 
 when he went in for an East and West line at 
 Washington, was too greedy. Those gentle- 
 men who were there, were there not merely 
 for the purpose of arranging an East and 
 West line, or a North and South line, but 
 they were there for the purpose of fixing this 
 matter of railroads, and Winona got her 
 share, and so did other places in the Territory, 
 while Hastings got nothing. Now when 
 Winona and those other fortunate portions of 
 the Territory have got their share, they come 
 hero and want to grab our share too. They 
 want to cut up the district of my friend from 
 Chisago (Mr. Stannabd) into two, leaving 
 one-half in one State, and the other half to go 
 into another ; and to place my county in the 
 North-east corner of a State. Now I think 
 they ought to rest content, and allow some- 
 body else to have a little sometliing, after they 
 have all these railroads fixed to their liking. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tcesday, Acgcst 11. 
 
 427 
 
 The gentleman ftom Steele county (Mr. 
 CoGGSWELL,) has said if he thought there 
 were any considerable body of the people 
 who were in favor of any other particular line 
 than the one mentioned in the resolution, he 
 would be in fevor of giving them a chance to 
 express their wishes. Now it is perfectly no- 
 torious that the people of St Paul, and of St. 
 Croix, desire, if there is to be an east and 
 west line at all, that the Mississippi and the St. 
 Croix shall form that line. They want to be 
 in the northern State, and not in a sou&em 
 State, and no opinion has been more strongly 
 expressed than that. So there is a tiiird 
 party who are in fevor of another line than 
 that mentioned in the resolution. If as the 
 gentleman from Winona (Mr. Wilsos,) said, 
 there wiU be a thousand different lines named, 
 and consequently, that the east and west line 
 they wanted for tlieir own purposes, would 
 not be likely to be adopted, I think that is a 
 sufficient reason for not submmitting the 
 question. If the people are in favor of di- 
 vers lines, and if the act of Congress is to 
 be departed from at all, why, let all these va- 
 rious views have a full and untrammeled op- 
 portunity of being expressed. The argu- 
 ment the gentleman uses, that his particu- 
 lar line might fail, is only an additional reason 
 and argument for those who reaUy are in 
 fiivor of the people having their own free-will, 
 about it, if it is submitted at all. Why con- 
 fine them down, and say, " You shall not 
 " have the privilege of voting for any other 
 " line than a certain specified line." 
 
 Some gentleman has talked about our dar- 
 ing to vote not to allow the people to act upon 
 this matter. If we are to talk in that style, 
 I, too, want to say to those gentlemen, just 
 come up if they dare, and vote against the 
 people having this privilege in the largest 
 sense. I want their names down in black 
 and white, that I may see who really are in 
 favor of allowing the people to exercise their 
 real choice in this matter. 
 
 There is another point which members of 
 the Convention ought to reflect upon, and 
 this is, that by the course of events, that 
 portion of the Territory which would be most 
 opposed to this East and West line, is not 
 properly represented in this Hall. To be 
 sure, it may be said that it is so by their own 
 act, but still it is a fact, and we should move 
 
 very cautiously in what we do by reason of 
 that very fact, for which the people of the 
 northern portion of the Territory are not 
 themselves to be blamed. Their voice can- 
 not be heard, and therefore you should 
 exercise'a great deal of forbearance and cau- 
 tion. Do not, because you may have the 
 numerical strength coming from the South, 
 ignore those people, and attempt to force 
 a state of things upon them, when they can- 
 not have a voice in the matter. It has been 
 well said that]the people of St. Croix, and all 
 that region, who are interested in the most 
 vital manner, are not represented upon this 
 floor, as they would have been but for pecu- 
 liar circumstances. 
 
 There has been some talk here about the 
 merits of this question. Now I do not pro- 
 pose to enter^into a discussion of that matter. 
 But the idea of dividing this State by an East 
 and West line running to the Missouri river, 
 making the State about one hundred miles 
 wide by three, fom*, or five hundred mUes 
 long, is to me an most absurd idea. It would 
 be making a State, too, which had but one 
 interest, and that agricultural. Congress pro- 
 poses to unite into one a people who are now 
 connected together by business relations and 
 associations, who are connected together by 
 water communications, and who are soon to 
 be intimately connected by this great system 
 of railroads which, like a net work, is to cover 
 the Territory fix)m East to West, and from 
 North to South. Now I say that when you 
 vmdertake to bind people together politically, 
 you should combine those whom nature and 
 the geographical position of the country has 
 connected together, and whose business 
 naturally brings them together, in as near by 
 a square form as possible. That, this North 
 and South line does. Contrast the States 
 marked out by those two proposed lines, and 
 consi ler their relative interests and resources. 
 There is no comparison between them. That 
 marked out by Congress would (jombine agri- 
 culture, commerce, and the pineries, sources 
 of permanent wealth and prosperity to the 
 State. 
 
 Without arguing this matter further, I 
 again repeat that if this question is to be sub- 
 mitted to the people at all, it should be sub- 
 mitted in the manner I have indicated in my 
 substitute. I hope gentlemen upon this floor 
 
428 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, Augitst 11. 
 
 will not attempt to smother the voice of the 
 people by their proposition. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I am not impelled in my 
 course upon this subject by the press of any 
 public sentiment at home. I have received 
 no letters urging me to this or that particular 
 course in regard to the boundary line of the 
 State. But I happen to have been Chairman 
 of the committee on Boundaries, which re- 
 ported in favor of a north and south line. A 
 majority of the committee were in favor of 
 the boundaries proposed by Congress. There 
 was a minority, not in favor of it. So far as 
 the merits of these two several lines are con- 
 cerned, I do not propose to discuss that. 
 
 There are gentlemen who understand the 
 interests of this Territory much better than 
 I do, and who understand its aspects, and 
 its resources in all its parts. 
 
 If this resolution proposed to incorporate 
 into the Constitution a clause declaring that 
 an east and west Une[^should be the boundary 
 taken and adopted by the State, to the exclu- 
 sion of all others, I should most certainly 
 oppose it. I favor the adoption of the hue 
 prescribed by the Enabling Act, because I 
 feel it to be necessary under the circumstan- 
 ces. The gentlemen from Winona (Mr, Wil- 
 son) a member of the committee on Bounda- 
 ries, stated here, if I understood him correctly, 
 that we could come into the Union just as 
 well by adopting boundaries different from 
 those prescribed by Congress, as we can by 
 adopting that prescribed line. But it seems 
 to me that any person, with half an eye, 
 should see the utter fallacy of such a state- 
 ment. It is useless to disguise the fact that 
 we are sitting here under peculiar circumstan- 
 ces. It seems to me that it is useless to dis- 
 guise the fact that a strict compliance with 
 the Enabling Act, in all its provisions, is in- 
 dispensable to the early admission of Minne- 
 sota into the Union as an independent State. 
 Gentlemen may talk as much as they please 
 to the contpiry, still I apprehend that they 
 cannot close their eyes to the facts I have 
 mentioned. And it has been admitted here 
 over and over again, that the facts I have sta- 
 ted are true, and as a necessary consequence, 
 that there was but one course for us to pur- 
 sue. It has been urged so strongly that we 
 should proceed solely under the Enabling Act, 
 and shovdd have nothing whatever Ufido with 
 
 the act passed by the Territorial Legislature, 
 that a simple proposition to obtain a certified 
 copy of that act, was voted down by a large 
 majority, because it was considered a matter 
 of pollution, and would contaminate all the 
 proceedings of the Convention and would ex- 
 clude us from admission into the Union as a 
 State. And this was owing to the fact, which 
 is notorious, and known all over the country, 
 that this Convention is divided ; that the 
 Democrats have abstracted themselves from 
 the rest of the Convention and are now sitting 
 in the other end of the Capitol ; and it was 
 supposed at the time, and has been ever since 
 — and it is useless to deny it — that Congress, 
 being Democratic, would not be more favor- 
 able than it would be obliged to be, towards 
 the actions of this Convention, Gentlemen 
 say we have no right to believe that. All the 
 world beside believe differently, and why 
 should gentlemen say that this little body of 
 delegates should believe differently, when all 
 the world know and believe what I have' sta- 
 ted to be truth ? 
 
 Now my constituents, upon this question 
 as an independent question, are somewhat di- 
 vided ; a portion of them, I have no doubt, 
 would be in favor of an East and West line, 
 and a portion of them in favor of a North and 
 South line. But, under the circumstances, 
 Congress, having prescribed a North and South 
 line, they feel it important those boundaries 
 should be accepted by this Convention and by 
 the State, in order that we may not be de- 
 layed in our admission into the Uuion. That 
 seems to me to be a sensible view of the 
 question. Although other gentlemen have 
 expressed a different view, I have not, and I 
 have no doubt that if this Convention should 
 go on and incorporate into the Constitution 
 an article adopting different boundaries than 
 those prescribed by Congress, that Congress 
 would not admit us, and gentlemen all along 
 have acted consistently with that idea, and it 
 is only upon this subject of boundaries that 
 they have ever differed from me in regard to 
 the course we ought to pursue under the cir- 
 cumstances. In every other respect they 
 have been very careful indeed not to place 
 this Convention in an attitude of opposition to 
 the general government, because they have 
 appreciated the difficulties which surround us. 
 They very well understood the peculiar cir- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tcesdat, Acgust 11. 
 
 429 
 
 cumstances under which we were sitting, and 
 know the obstacles which might be thrown 
 in our wav, by this hne of policy, to prevent 
 or retard ovu: admission ifito the Union. That 
 has been very well vmderstood all along, and 
 it is useless at the present time for us to wince 
 this question out of sight. 
 
 Well, it was under the influence of those 
 circumstances and considerations, that I fa- 
 vored the acceptance of the boundaries pre- 
 scribed by Congress, by incorporating them 
 into the Constitution. But now there is a 
 proposition brought before us, somewhat dif- 
 ferent from that. If I imderstand it, it is like 
 this — not that we shall reconsider what we 
 have done and adopt boundaries different firom 
 those we have already adopted and incorpo- 
 rated into the Constitution, but that a request 
 shall be made to Congress, if the people de- 
 sire it, for a change in such boundaries. Now, 
 so far as I can see, that is a very reasonable 
 and proper thing, and I do not see any neces- 
 sity for any great excitement in regard to it. 
 It is simply a respectful petition or memorial. 
 We have already incorporated into the Con- 
 stitution an article accepting the boundaries 
 prescribed by Congress. And now it is pro- 
 posed to accompany that acceptance, with a 
 simple and polite request to Congress to change 
 those boundaries in obedience with the ex- 
 pressed wishes of the people of Minnesota 
 manifested through the ballot-boxes. I can- 
 not see that a proposition of that kind would 
 be likely to embarrass the admission of Min- 
 nesota in the least. Congress can take no 
 exception whatever to a request of that re- 
 spectful kind. Can she? Where is the 
 ground of exception to it ? I am willing to 
 trust this matter to the people, and if they 
 desire other limits and other boundaries than 
 those proposed by Congress, I am perfectly 
 willing that they should have them. I appre- 
 hend that a great majority would not be in 
 favor of any such course, if it were going to 
 embarrass the admission of our State with the 
 Union. But it will not ; it cannot. 
 
 Now let the question go out to the people, 
 and let them vote upon it. I understand that 
 there is no representative here from above the 
 forty-sixth degree of latitude ; and, therefore, 
 nobody is to be excluded that is represented 
 in this Convention. No harm is to be done. 
 If it were to cut off a portion of the Territo- 
 
 rial representatives here, a different question 
 would be presented. But I understand that 
 nothing of that kind is proposed by this pro- 
 position. And then all agree, if it is to go to 
 the people at all, it should go in the shape pro- 
 posed by the original resolution, and not as 
 proposed by the substitute of the gentleman 
 from Dakota, (Mr. Foster,) for that would 
 evidently defeat the whole object in view. 
 Nothing could be done under that, and no 
 definite line could be prescribed ; and such 
 confusion would result fix>m it that it would 
 be useless. A definite proposition, politely 
 asking Congress to change the boimdaries 
 can do no harm ; and it is a simple matter of 
 justice to the people that they should be per- 
 mitted to make such request if they desire. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. The gentleman who 
 has just taken his seat, represents that there 
 is no one here from a portion of the Territory 
 which is proposed, by this resolution, to be 
 cut off from the State. There is a represen- 
 tative in this body from such portion of the 
 Territory — the gentleman from Morrison coun- 
 ty, (Mr. Ateb.) He is not in his seat to-day, 
 and it is unfortunate that those portions of the 
 Territory which are mostly without the line 
 are unrepresented here. We should not take 
 undue advantage of their misfortunes. This 
 is a question, which not only involves the 
 plausible argument of submitting this to the 
 people, but it involves many other and serious 
 questions which should be well considered 
 before we take final action upon it. I am not 
 prepared to give a final vote upon it to-day, 
 but I am willing and glad to hear gentlemen 
 discuss it. I know the views of my constit- 
 uents upon this matter, and I know my own 
 views, and I am decidedly and positively in 
 favor of a north and south line ; and I think 
 that when I say that, I am also expressing the 
 sentiments of a large majority of my constit- 
 uents. The question is simply this : do we 
 not, in introducing and debating this proposi- 
 tion in this Convention, throw ourselves at 
 sea, and back upon the principles of squatter 
 sovereignty, and, in fact, discard the Enabling 
 Act ? I wish gentlemen to discuss this mat- 
 ter and make it plain. We may say, and 
 truly, that this is only a proviso; that we 
 have accepted the Enabling Act, and do ac- 
 cept it now ; but how ? Upon conditions, say 
 gentl^nen. Does that assert, at least by im- 
 
430 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 11. 
 
 plication, that we do not consider the Ena- 
 bling Act binding ? And will not that throw 
 us at sea again ; and does it not say, that not- 
 withstanding the Enabling Act, we have a 
 right to do just as we please ? I understand 
 this Convention to be organized under the 
 Enabling Act ; that it has claimed its organ- 
 ization from the beginning up to this time, un- 
 der the Enabling Act; and that we hold our 
 seats here by virtue of that Act. Now what 
 ■ do we do by this proposition ? We submit a 
 question to the people, who are not within the 
 limits of the proposed State, because we dis- 
 card the Enabhng Act, and go out of the re- 
 cord and make a provision for people whom 
 we do not represent, and who, as has been 
 asserted upon this floor, have no representa- 
 tion here — that is the Pembina portion of our 
 Territory. If we depart from the Enabling 
 Act, we submit the question to the whole Ter- 
 ritory ; to the people living west of the line 
 of the proposed State. And do we not by 
 that very act discard the Enabling Act? We 
 may put it in as plausible language as we 
 please, but still do we not discard it ? Not- 
 withstanding the Enabling Act, which we pro- 
 fess to act under here ; by virtue of which 
 we hold our seats ; and by virtue of which 
 we have said that certain portions of our Ter- 
 ritory shall not be represented here ; not- 
 withstanding that, I say, we propose to legis- 
 late for a Territory without our limits and 
 without our jurisdiction. Is not that so? 
 Who represents the Territory without the 
 proposed limits, in this body? Gentlemen 
 may say that there are but few inhabitants 
 there. That is true. But if there were but 
 a hundred men, their voice should be heard. 
 We cannot act for them. This resolution pro- 
 poses that the people of the whole Territory 
 shall vote upon the resolution. Am I right ? 
 
 Mr. OOGGSWELL. Will the Chair read 
 the resolution for the gentleman's benefit. 
 
 The resolution was again read. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. It submits the ques- 
 tion to the people of this Territory. The Ter- 
 ritory is organized under the Organic Act. 
 We must have an election west of the line of 
 the proposed State. Now who do we repre- 
 sent here? Do not we represent only the 
 people within the limits of the proposed State ? 
 and have we not asserted it as a fundamental 
 position, that nobody has a right to bo repre- 
 
 sented here, who do not reside within the 
 limits of the proposed State ? Then why go 
 beyond our jurisdiction ? I ask this question 
 in all good faith. Because I see \n this thing 
 not only a departure from the Enablmg Act 
 itself, but I see breakers ahead ; I see the 
 whole thing fraught with danger. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I suppose the first 
 part of that resolution might be worded a lit- 
 tle dififerently. It was the intention to have 
 the resolution so as to submit it to the legal 
 and qualified voters residing within the limits 
 of the proposed State. And if that is the 
 only objection the gentleman has, that can 
 easily be obviated. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. But there is another 
 and greater objection. There is a large portion 
 of our territory lying west of us, as large as 
 that portion which we represent, which we 
 have no business to act for. Now by what au- 
 thority do we hold our seats here ? Under the 
 authority of the Enabling Act, and no other 
 authority whatever. We were not elected by 
 virtue of the authority of squatter sovereignty. 
 I was elected under that act and you were 
 elected under it, and it is the charter by which 
 we hold our seats, and the moment we depart 
 from it, I believe tve have no right in this 
 Convention. Congress said we should elect 
 delegates so and so. That was done. We 
 assembled here under that act, and the mo- 
 ment we depart from it we become a Conven- 
 tion not elected under the Enabling Act, but 
 by our own act we become a Convention elect- 
 ed under the principles of squatter sovereign- 
 ty. If then we can amend the boundaries 
 of the State as proposed by Congress, then 
 we have the right to fix the boundaries of a 
 State which we do not represent, for we have 
 no representation from that portion of our 
 Territory which is included in that resolution, 
 and which lies west of the limits of the pro- 
 posed State, and which we know we have 
 no right to legislate for. Then how can we 
 give to the people within the hmits of the pro- 
 proposed State the right to say that a certain 
 portion of our Territory lying without those 
 hmits shall be a part of our State. Has it 
 not been urged, that the validity of our or- 
 ganization is based in part upon the fact that 
 that part of our Territory, not included with- 
 in the limits of the proposed State was not 
 and should not be represented here? Wc 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 11. 
 
 431 
 
 have held that position, and why ? Because 
 we hold seats under the Enabling Act. Now 
 if we change it, we run upon a dangerous 
 rock, because we thereby profess to represent 
 another portion of our Territory without the 
 limits of the proposed State, which is as large 
 as our own, and which we have said should 
 not be represented here. Who in this Con- 
 vention has said tliat anybody should repre- 
 sent, in this Convention, a portion of Terri- 
 tory outside the limits of the proposed State ? 
 But you depart from that principle in submit- 
 ting a proposition for the benefit of that por- 
 tion of teiTitory. Do not we thereby say 
 that that territory shall be represented, and 
 that all of our opposition to the admission of 
 the Pembina members was without founda- 
 tion ? I see danger in such a course. If 
 gentlemen can disabuse my mind I would like 
 to have them do it, and before they force me 
 to vote upon this resolution, I hope they will 
 clear up these difiBculties, so that we may be 
 placed in a position that we can help these 
 gentlemen honorably and conscientiously, for 
 we have all a desire to do so, if we can, with- 
 out destroying our own organization, and 
 abandoning the authority under which we 
 act. Disabuse my mind of these things, and 
 there are no gentlemen whom I would sustain 
 more cordially than the Representatives who 
 stand upon this floor honorably striving to 
 get an East and "West line. I differ with 
 them, but if this question can be submitted 
 without sacrificing our position, I vrill vote 
 with them. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. Mr. Cuaibmas : I do 
 not wish to discuss the merits of this ques' 
 tion, as to the difference between an East and 
 West line of division and a North and South 
 line of division — sis to which would be the 
 best, provided we might have our choice. — 
 This is not the place nor the time to discuss 
 that question. That question has been dis- 
 cussed somewhat at length before the people 
 heretofore ; and if the proposition, which the 
 gentleman from Nicollet, \[Mr. Davis], has 
 offered should be adopted and sent forth for 
 the people to vot« for or against, then will be 
 the time to discuss this question. 
 
 It is not necessary for me to tell this Con- 
 vention, nor is it necessary for me to notify 
 the people abroad throughout the Territory, 
 that I am in favor of an East and West line. 
 
 This is well known. The Chairman of this 
 Committee well knows, that I expressed an 
 opinion in favor of this division line two years 
 ago in the other Hall ; that I have done 
 the same thing since in public meetings, 
 frequently declaring myself in fiivor of an 
 East and West line of division, and I still re- 
 main in favor of such a division. I have not 
 thought it necessary to demonstrate that I 
 was a man of wisdom by changing my opin- 
 ion on this subject. It is said by high author- 
 ity, that wise men change sometimes, but fools 
 never. Perhaps, I do not know, but that I shall 
 liave to remain in the catalogue of fools, for 
 not deeming it necessary to indulge in some 
 change of opinion once a year, or once in six 
 months or three months, for the sake of 
 showing myself to be a wise man. If I were 
 brought to this test, I question very much 
 whether I should be able to make much show 
 of wisdom. I am not made of that kind of 
 material, sir. I believe, that when a man has 
 once taken a position in the belief that it is 
 right, he should stand to it, through thick and 
 thin, under all circumstances, whether adverse 
 or prosperous. Never, sir, for the sake of 
 poUtical preferment, for the sake of proving 
 myself a wise man, for the sake of accom- 
 plishing an election to a Constitutional Con- 
 vention, or to the Senate of the United States, 
 I can change my position on no question what- 
 ever. If, sir, I cannot attain to these very 
 desirable and much sought for positions, with- 
 out changing front every three months, or 
 every six months, I shaU never attain to them. 
 As to the proposition before the Conven- 
 tion, I cannot see the least harm, Mr. Chair- 
 MAX, in submitting this as a separate proposi- 
 tion to the people, I cannot see that we 
 should in any way vitiate any action of the 
 Convention by so doing. We have already 
 accepted the boimdary as proposed by Con- 
 gress. We then, by presenting this prop- 
 osition to the people, add a proviso — not a 
 proviso exactly, but a memorial — in case a 
 majority of the people sanction it, we add a 
 memorial to the Constitution, asking Congress 
 to volimtarily change our boundary, if they 
 see fit to do so ; and if not, we travel on as 
 having accepted the boundary proposed in 
 the Enabling Act. They may give us either 
 boundary, and it is accepted and reliable, and 
 the coimtry and all the operations of govern- 
 
432 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 11. 
 
 ment may proceed upon it as the accepted 
 and established boundary. 
 
 But something has been said about " Squat- 
 ter Sovereignty." The same kind of talk has 
 heretofore been thrown out against those mem- 
 bers of the Republican party who have seen 
 fit to favor this East and "West line — that we 
 were thereby favoring the doctrine of Squat- 
 ter Sovereignty, and leaving the doctrine of 
 the Republican party. Now I cannot see it 
 in that light, nor never could. 
 
 When a State knocks for admission into 
 the Union, it is a matter of interest to every 
 State to know upon what principle the new 
 State is to be admitted. It is for them to see 
 that the State is not admitted upon any prin- 
 ciple which will have a bad effect. It is the 
 right of Congress to reject any State that may 
 knock for admission, with a Constitution 
 sanctioning an evil within her limits, calcula- 
 ted to have an injurious effect on every other 
 State in the Union. I say it is the right of 
 Congress to reject such a State. It is the po- 
 sition of the Republican party, that a State 
 presenting itself with a Constitution sanction- 
 ing slavery, shall not be admitted into the 
 Union, ■ "Why ? Such a State shall not be 
 admitted, because it is the belief of the Re- 
 publican party, that the institution of slavery 
 is an evil which should not be extended. It 
 is an evil continually, in a social fjs well as a 
 pecuniary and political point of view in every 
 State in the Union — where it exists, and where 
 it does not exist — and it is every way injuri- 
 ous to every State in the Union, to admit a 
 new State with slavery ; and therefore Con- 
 gress has the right to reject a State with such 
 an evil in their midst. That is our doc- 
 trine. 
 
 But this question of boundary is more a 
 local question. It cannot affect other States. 
 It cannot affect injuriously the society of any 
 other State. It cannot injuriously affect any 
 other State either pecuniarily or politically. 
 It is a question of mere local concern and 
 nothing more. It is a matter of interest to 
 the people within these limits, and to nobody 
 else ; a matter which Congress cares nothing 
 about one way or another. What difference 
 does it make to other States what our boun- 
 dary shall be, whether it bo an East and 
 West, or a North and South division line that 
 we shall adopt? Does it make any differ- 
 
 ence in the pecuniary or the social interests 
 of any other State ? Not at all. Inasmuch 
 then, as this matter is a question purely local, 
 interesting to the people of this Territory, and 
 to no other people. Congress should pay 
 some attention to the memorial of the people 
 within those limits. 
 
 And I say the people have a right to make 
 this memorial. They do not thereby assume 
 to dictate to Congress. They do not thereby 
 assume to set up a State government for 
 themselves, contrary to the wish and the au- 
 thority of Congress. They simply make a 
 request of Congress, and Congress can grant 
 it or not, as that body shall see fit. Is there 
 any thing anti-Republican in that ? Any thing 
 wrong in it? Any thing discreditable to 
 Congress ? If there is, Mr. Chaieman, I can- 
 not see it. 
 
 Mr. Chairman ; I look upon this as a mere 
 expression of the wish of the people. We 
 We might, perhaps get it in some other way, 
 but this is thought to be the very best man- 
 ner in which the case can be presented — a 
 strong, firm manner, which cannot be got 
 round easily. 
 
 And what objection can Congress have to 
 our sending up a memorial on this subject ? 
 For it is nothing more nor less than a memo- 
 rial. Will that body think we are interfering 
 with their rights to govern this Territory ? 
 Not a bit of it. Is the Enabling Act an act 
 which that body cannot reverse if they should 
 see fit? Cannot that body so far change 
 their former act as to admit us with an East 
 and West line? Is there any thing that for- 
 bids it ? If they have passed an Enabling 
 Act, is that a finality ? Not at all. Have 
 they not changed State boundaries before, at 
 the ^request of the people ? Certainly they 
 have. And cannot that body do the same 
 thing again ? Certainly they can. Because 
 Mr. Chairman, requests of this kind have 
 been made heretofore by Territories, and 
 such requests have been granted in some in- 
 stances, and refused in others. 
 
 But the gentleman who was last upon the 
 floor has brought up an objection on account 
 of a few voters who are living outside of the 
 proposed State limits, and within the limits 
 proposed by the Enabling Act of Congress, 
 Now, Mr. Chairman : I am perfectly willing 
 those voters should be allowed to vote on this 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 11. 
 
 483 
 
 question. I am wiling upon the general prin- 
 ciple of submitting this Constitution to the 
 people. If it should be submitted to those 
 living within the limits of the proposed State, 
 why should not those contemplated in the 
 EnabUng Act, but living still outside of the 
 proposed limits, have an opportunity of ex- 
 pressing themselves ? I have been^informed, 
 that those people living outside are in favor of 
 an east and west division. Now if this should 
 be so, and a majority of the voters within the 
 proposed limits should be in favor of an east 
 and west division, then I say, would it not be 
 the moral duty of Congress to respect their 
 memorial? Our vote would not bind Con- 
 gress ; but the moral duty to hear the voice of 
 the people, most assmredly would. 
 
 In passing the Enabling Act, Congress un- 
 doubtedly supposed they were passing an act 
 in accordance with the wishes of a majority 
 of the people. Why ? Simply because the 
 delegate from the Territory so represented the 
 case. That delegate, emanating from Saint 
 Paul, and surrounded entirely by men and 
 interests in favor of a north and south boun- 
 dary line, undoubtedly thought a majority of 
 the people were in favor of a north and south 
 line. What could Congress do, other than to 
 form a judgment upon those representations, 
 and act in accordance with the wishes of the 
 people as expressed through their delegate ? 
 There was no other medium trhough which 
 the people attempted to express their wishes. 
 Now we propose another medium. Now we 
 propose, by an actual vote of the people, to 
 show that our delegate in Congress did not 
 correctly represent the wishes of the people 
 at that time. And after a fair vote shall have 
 been taken, and it shall have been proved 
 that the delegate did not fairly represent the 
 people, would it be^anything inconsistent on 
 the part of Congress to change their act and 
 give us an east and west line? Congress ac- 
 ted at first upon the best information they 
 had as to what was the wish of the people. 
 But now, if a majority should say they are 
 in favor of an east and west line, they would 
 have a sure guide to go by, in fact the only 
 sure guide they could possibly have, as to 
 what were the wishes of the majority ; and 
 there could be nothing inconsistent in granting 
 it, but it would be right and proper for them 
 so to do, and I believe they would do so. I 
 55 
 
 believe that Congress would not hesitate to 
 give us the division line we might ask for, and 
 that without further question. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. Mr. Chaibman : I do not 
 propose to make another speech upon this 
 question. I do not propose now to discuss 
 the merits or demerits of either side of the 
 question. I wish merely to disabuse the 
 minds of certain gentlemen who suppose the 
 Capitol removal has anything to do with this 
 question. Now I Uve right in the vicinity of 
 St. Peter, at Traverse des Sioux, whose inter- 
 ests are identical with those of St. Peter, and 
 I know the question of the seat of govern- 
 ment does not enter into this matter in the 
 least. I know that our citizens there never 
 expect to get the Capitol in St. Peter, or upon 
 the school section, as provided last winter. 
 They did, at one time, expect the Capitol to 
 be located at St. Peter ; but since ex-Gover- 
 nor Gorman, the father of the project, and 
 the man who procured the passage of the biU, 
 deserted them and turned his back upon them, 
 they have not expected to get the seat of 
 government there. If gentlemen will just 
 look at their maps, they will see that St. Pe- 
 ter is not within a hundred miles of the cen- 
 tre of the proposed State, The Capitol, in 
 my opinion, should be near the centre ; and 
 St. Peter would be about as near the centre, 
 if the State were divided by the line proposed 
 in the Enabling Act, as if it were divided by 
 the proposed east and west line. 
 
 But sir, I will say, that the following'"are 
 some of the reasons which actuate these peo- 
 ple, and lead them to suppose, that an east 
 and west line is for their benefit, as well as 
 for the benefit of the people at large — not 
 merely for the benefit and advantage of the 
 people of the new State, but for those of the 
 Territory to be left out and I will read a 
 newspaper extract : 
 
 "Maine has thirty, and Ohio thirty-nine thou- 
 sand square miles. Maine had a population of one 
 hundred thousand, before Ohio began to be settled. 
 Amd now, after a lapse of a little more than half a 
 century, we have the following result : 
 
 KAINE. 
 
 Population, 683,169 
 
 Acres of land improved, 2,039,596 
 
 Total valuation of property, |122,777,521 
 
 Miles of Railroad, 608 
 
 OHIO. 
 
 Population, 1,880,427 
 
 Acres of land improved, 9,851,493 
 
 Total value of property, $504,756,120 
 
 Miles of Railroad, 8,140 
 
434 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 11. 
 
 "By a comparison of these statistics, it will be 
 seen that the population is as four to one — the 
 improved lands as five to one — the miles of railroad 
 as six to one — and the aggregate wealth of Ohio 
 equal to that of five just such States as that of 
 Maine! An east and west line would give us a 
 State like Ohio ; opulent in agriculture, the ' grand 
 ' art, rendering mankind happy, wealthy, and pow- 
 'erful.' " 
 
 These, Mr. Chaieman, amongst others, are 
 some of the reasons why a portion of those I 
 have the honor to represent here, prefer an 
 east and west to a north and south line. And 
 I hope, sir, this Capital removal question will 
 not be lugged into this debate again. For one, 
 I am heartily sick of it. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. Mr. Chairman: I do not 
 propose to discuss this subject. I do not 
 wish to occupy time but to notice one or two 
 things. The only argument against this reso- 
 lution, which has had the appearance of argu- 
 ment, is that raised by the gentleman from 
 Scott county, (Mr. Galbkaith,) and that is, 
 that having our seats here in this Convention 
 by virtue of the Enabling Act, he holds that, 
 if we pass this resolution we place ourselves 
 in an inconsistent position, by attempting to 
 legislate for a people outside of the proposed 
 limits. Now, it does not appear to my mind, 
 that we necessarily place ourselves in that 
 position. This proposition proposes to leave 
 a question to be decided by a vote of the peo- 
 ple of the Territory ; it proposes to leave it to 
 the people of the proposed State 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Tsuppose that alter- 
 ation could be made by consent. No objec- 
 tion could be made, certainly. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. In that event, Mr. Chaib- 
 MAN, I cannot myself discover those breakers 
 ahead, which the gentleman from Scott thinks 
 he sees. What is the proposition ? Simply 
 to get an expression of the voters of the pro- 
 posed State, as to their choice between two 
 boundaries; whether they prefer that pro- 
 posed by Congress, or an east and west line. 
 It is not saying to Congress, that we must 
 come in with an east and west line, or none. 
 As the gentleman from Olmsted has said, 
 we have already accepted another line. But 
 at the same time, we should prefer a different 
 line ; and if it should meet the approbation of 
 Congress to make a change, and run an east 
 and west division line, instead of the north 
 and south line, what harm is there in it? 
 
 There can be no harm done, unless it be to 
 that class of people living west of the line. I 
 do not know whether these people choose the 
 one or the other. They certainly have the 
 right ; not because we give it to them, but 
 because they possess it inherently. I caimot 
 see that it can work any evil effect at all. 
 We make the Enabling Act of Congress our 
 basis of action, and stand upon it ; but if the 
 people of the proposed State desire a different 
 line, there can be no harm in asking for it ; 
 and then it will be for Congress to decide 
 whether injustice will be done to those people 
 outside. 
 
 One word in regard to the position taken 
 by the gentleman from Dakota, (Mr. Foster.) 
 He says his amendment should be adopted, 
 because, if we are going to leave it to the peo- 
 ple, M'e should give them the largest liberty 
 as to the choice of boundary ; and he urges 
 it as a principle. I must confess, that when 
 I heard that declaration, I had some appre- 
 hensions — remembering that I belonged to the 
 Republican party, and that the gentleman 
 from Dakota, who made the declaration, and 
 the gentleman from Chisago, (Mr. Staxnard,) 
 who endorsed it, are both members of our 
 Republican Central Committee. It occurred 
 to me, that upon this principle, we, as a party, 
 could have neither organization nor concen- 
 tration of action, but every man would do 
 just as he pleased ; and if that was their 
 principle of action as members of the Repub- 
 lican party, I began to think we should have 
 to talk to our Central Committee. 
 
 Another thing. The gentleman from Chi-' 
 sago found fault, because the east and west 
 line would divide his county. But now, the 
 north and south line, which he advocates, di- 
 vides the county of Pembina, and I am in- 
 clined to think the people of that region are 
 opposed to it ; and it was but the other day, 
 that both the gentleman from Chisago and 
 the gentleman from Dakota, worked them- 
 selves up into a flame of zeal for the rights of 
 these half-breeds, which, they alleged, were 
 going to be interfered with. I commend these 
 things for gentlemen to reflect upon. 
 
 The question was now taken upon Mr. 
 Foster's substitute, and it was rejected. 
 
 Mr. WATSON. Mr. Chairman: in con- 
 fonnity with the wishes of several members, 
 I offer the following amendment : 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tcesdat, August 11. 
 
 485 
 
 Insert, after the word " Territory," these 
 words : " residing within the limits of the 
 "proposed State;" so that it will read: 
 " There shall be submitted to the qualified 
 " voters of the Territory, residing within the 
 " hmits of the proposed State, &c." 
 
 Mr. LOWE. Mr. Chairsiax : I shall vote 
 not to exclude any portion of the people. If 
 we must perform such an act as this, it strikes 
 me that we are bound to allow all the people 
 within the limits to vote. But then, it seems 
 to me that this proposition is the height of 
 injustice. We would be reversing all our 
 action here by the passage of this resolution. 
 It would be stultifying ourselves before the 
 world, by declaring, in effect, that we were 
 wrong in excluding the Pembina delegation ; 
 that they ought to be here to day, and have a 
 right to vote here, and we have no right to 
 proceed without their presence. It would be 
 declaring, almost in so many words, that the 
 opinion entertained here in regard to the pro- 
 priety of excluding those members is entirely 
 unjust ; and not only so, but that the position 
 of the Democratic members who have sepa- 
 rated from us, is not merely proper, but emi- 
 nently just. 
 
 Some gentlemen have said that if this reso- 
 lution should be rejected, no harm would be 
 done. But I say, it would go back to the 
 people and anaul all the proceedings of this 
 Convention. If there ever was a measure 
 calculated to repudiate our own action, and 
 place all our efforts here in a light of the 
 utmost disgrace and disparagement, it is 
 this. 
 
 For myself, Mr. Chaibmax, I disclaim any 
 personal feeling in the case. I know a good 
 many of my constituents are in favor of 
 remaining imder a Territorial organization. 
 Therefore with reference to coming into the 
 Union, I need feel no material anxiety. But 
 I do feel an interest in this question, on 
 accovmt of the inconsistency involved. It 
 wiU place us, I repeat it, in the attitude of 
 admitting that our decision in regard to the 
 Pembina delegation has been erroneous, and 
 I know very well the proposition will be sus- 
 tained in the eyes of the world. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Mr. Chairman: I 
 understood the gentleman from Scott coimty 
 to make objection to the language of the reso- 
 lution, on the ground, that it allows inhabi- 
 
 tants residing outside of the limits proposed 
 by the Enabling Act, the privilege of voting. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I stated that we had 
 no right, under our organization, to do any 
 act that was going to be obligatory on those 
 residing outside of our jurisdiction; and also, 
 that the people can have no right to vote on 
 this proposition, who live outside of the 
 boundary proposed. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Whatever, Mr. Chair- 
 man, may have been the object of the gentle- 
 man, it is evident that this amendment is 
 intended to prevent the inhabitants who Uve 
 outside of the limits mentioned in the Ena- 
 bling act from voting on this question ; and 
 also, to prevent those who hve out North — 
 and for the purpose of allowing only those to 
 vote who Uve within the limits proposed in 
 the resolution. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. Mr. Chaibjian: I pre- 
 sume we are all anxious to have this matter 
 settled. For myself, as there seems to be a 
 good deal of feeling manifested on one side, 
 and on the other a strong desire that this 
 proposition should be submitted to the people, 
 if it could be submitted in any way that 
 would not contradict what we have already 
 done, in accepting the proposition of the 
 Enabling Act, I for one should not object. 
 But, Mr. Chairman, I have taken this ground 
 from the start, and I mean to maintain it, if I 
 understand what I am doing. Congress has 
 said to a certain Territory — the people of the 
 Territory of Minnesota — "You may elect 
 " your delegates to a Constitutional Conven- 
 " tion, form a Constitution, and be admitted 
 " into the Union as an independent State, on 
 " conditions." But now, when we go outside 
 of that Territory — when we talk about any 
 other line, or any other set of men than those 
 embraced within that Territory, we have got 
 outside of the proposition of Congress, and 
 Congress is no longer bound by it. I under- 
 stand the case in this way : If A should 
 should offer B a span of horses for two hun- 
 dred dollars, and B turns round and says to 
 A, " You may have my cattle for them," he 
 virtually rejects the offer, by talking about 
 something else. Congress has said to us, 
 " You may have a State on certain conditions." 
 When we talk about other Territory and 
 other conditions, I fear we are stepping out- 
 side, so far as to offer to Congress an excuse 
 
43d 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 11. 
 
 for rejecting us altogether. It has been 
 objected to this proposition, that wo are now- 
 placed under peculiar circumstances, and if 
 there could be found any excuse, Congress 
 might be willing to avail themselves of it, and 
 reject us. This consideration has been urged, 
 it seems to me, with good reason ; and I think 
 we should be very cautious how we proceed 
 in this matter. If I understand the resolu- 
 tion, it reads to this eflFect, that if this propo- 
 sition shall receive a majority of all the votes 
 cast for and against it, within the Hmits of the 
 proposed State — if a majority shall be in 
 favor of an East and West line, then this 
 proposition shall be a part of this Constitu- 
 tion. Well, how far we can safely travel in 
 that direction, seems very doubtful in my 
 mind ; and I would like to have the matter 
 laid over for consideration until to-morrow. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Mr. Chairman: I was just 
 going to move that the committee rise and 
 report the matter to the Convention, with a 
 recommendation to lay it upon the table. My 
 reasons for this motion are, that there are ob- 
 jections to the proposition which it seems, it 
 cannot be now seen how to remedy by amend- 
 ment. I understood, when this was first 
 brought up, it was to be as a memorial, and 
 not as an amendment to the Constitution. 
 But it will be seen by the language of the 
 proposition, that if the people vote in favor of 
 it, it is to be a change of the Constitution. I 
 am decidedly opposed to that. But if it can 
 be changed so as to make it nothing but a 
 memorial, I can go for it. For the ^purpose of 
 having that point better considered, I move — 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Mr. Chaieamn: I 
 was about to say, I hope that motion will not 
 prevail. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I withdraw it if the gentle- 
 man wants to say anything. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. It does seem to me, 
 Mr. Chaibman, that we could dispose of this 
 little amendment in a few moments, and also 
 of the simple proposition of submitting this 
 question to the people. H' there was any- 
 thing in it so hidden and occult, that a man of 
 ordinary capacity could not understand it, I 
 could agree to lay it over day after day ; but, 
 when it is nothing but a simple question as to 
 whether a boundary line shall be submitted to 
 the people or not, I think, sir, we ought to 
 have the capacity to decide upon that at once. 
 
 As to the language of the proposition, that 
 this boundary is to become a part of the Con- 
 stitution when it goes to Congress, it seems 
 to me, that it must necessarily be a part of 
 the Constitution, when it shall be ratified 
 by the people. Of course, if the people 
 ratify it, with the Constitution, it is a part 
 of the Constitution, and so it must go to Con- 
 gress. It must go to Congress just as that 
 proposition went, which was sent up with 
 their Constitution by the people of the State 
 of Wisconsin. It cannot go in any other 
 shape, for the reason, that it has been ratified 
 by the people. If it should ^not [be ratified, 
 then, of course, it is no part of the Constitu- 
 tion ; otherwise, it must be a part of the Con- 
 stitution, and it can go to Congress in no other 
 shape. I hope this thing will be disposed of, 
 and let us go to something else. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. Mr. Chairman: There 
 has bten something said about the language 
 of the proposition that I do not understand. 
 It seems to have some hidden meaning. I do 
 not understand how it is to go before Congress 
 as a part of the Constitution. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. It says so in plain lan- 
 guage. 
 
 Mr, PERKINS. We have ahready adopted 
 into the Constitution an acceptance of the 
 north and south line ; and this proposition, if 
 I imderstand it, is nothing bnt a memorial. 
 It goes to Congress as a memorial ; but, if ac- 
 cepted by Congress, then it is incorporated 
 into the Constitution, but not otherwise. If 
 that is not the idea, then I am opposed to it 
 in toto. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. It says so, in so many words, 
 in the first part of the resolution. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN again read the first part 
 of the resolution, as follows : 
 
 Eesohed, That there shall be submitted to the 
 qualified voters of this Territory, at the same 
 time this Constitution is submitted to them, for 
 their adoption or rejection, the following proposi- 
 tion (or one substantially the same,) and if the 
 same shall receive a majority of all the votes cast 
 both for and against it, then, the same shall be a part 
 of this Constitution and go with the same to the 
 Congress of the United States, to be acted upon 
 by them as they may see proper." ' 
 . Mr. McCLURE. I cannot vote for the 
 proposition as it now stands. And I wish to 
 help my fiiends, because they disclaim any 
 idea of making this a part of the Constitution. 
 I cannot for a moment think that the counties 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 11. 
 
 437 
 
 I represent have any interest in the removaj 
 of the capital. Nor indeed any railroad in- 
 terest. We have either fortunately or unfor- 
 tunately been represented in the Legislature 
 by a man who for some years never saw a 
 railroad car or railroad track, and conse- 
 quently he has had nothing to do with these 
 Uttle petty railroad frauds at all. (Laughter.) 
 So far as I am concerned, therefore, I am free 
 from any of these little influences which some 
 may be controlled by. 
 
 Now the resolution which has been ofiFered 
 by the gentleman from Nicollet, (Mr. Davis,) 
 I could be in favor of, could it be amended a 
 little. I intend, at the proper time, to offer 
 this amendment, to strike out the words " then 
 "then the same shall be a part of this Con- 
 "stution &c.," and insert in heu thereof the 
 words " then the same shall be certified to the 
 " Congress of the United States, as a request 
 " to change the boundary line of the proposed 
 "State accordingly." 
 
 I understand that if it is engrafted into the 
 Constitution, as proposed by the resolution, 
 it goes up to Congress as a part of the Con- 
 stitution. I vmderstand that we have already 
 admitted by the action of this body, that we 
 liave accepted of and do accept the boundary 
 proposed by Congress. Now it seems to me 
 that we ought not to incorporate into the Con- 
 stitution a different line, but, that if a major- 
 ity of the voters of the proposed State should 
 vote in favor of the bovmdaries contained in 
 the resolution, it should go to Congress merely 
 as a request that they would change the line 
 so as to make it accord with the wishes of the 
 people so expressed. I am willing to go for 
 that, because I know my friends are really in- 
 terested in the matter, and that their constit- 
 uents will not be satisfied with less than a 
 chance to vote in some way upon the matter. 
 But I am imwilling to vote for a proposition 
 which shall incorporate it into the Constitution 
 as a part and parcel thereof. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I misimderstood the lan- 
 guage of the resolution, and before I can vote 
 for it, I shall require that some such amend- 
 ment as that suggested by the gentleman from 
 Goodhue, shall be adopted. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I would say to the Conven- 
 tion that the meaning I intended the res- 
 olution to convey, was this, that the proposi- 
 tion which was to go to Congress, should be 
 
 considered as a memorial ; or a request in 
 case a majority of the voters of the State 
 should vote in favor of it. If any gentleman 
 will offer to amend it in any way that will 
 satisfy them, and still convey the meaning I 
 intended, I would prefer, as a matter of course, 
 to see it done. I am not tenacious as to the 
 exact language used, only that it gives t9 the 
 people an opportunity to express their views 
 upon the division line. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I must say that I have 
 not seen the resolution in print imtil this mo- 
 ment. I certainly mistook its import, and 
 there must be some amendment, such as has 
 been suggested, before I can vote for the res- 
 olution. It is different from what I thought 
 it was. It makes the proposed change a part 
 of the Constitution. As i heard it read, I 
 took it to be a mere memorial to Congress to 
 change the line, and that if Congress should 
 see fit to do so, then, and not till then it was 
 to be a part of the Constitution. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. Such was my intention. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I move that the committee 
 now rise. We are involved in difficulty about 
 the matter, and we can not vote for it as it 
 now stands, although we might if it was 
 changed somewhat. We can go back into 
 Convention, and then refer it back to the 
 mover, to make such modification of it, as will 
 meet the views which gentlemen have ex- 
 pressed. I will move that the committee will 
 rise and report the resolution back with a 
 recommendation that it be referred back to 
 the original mover of the same, to report such 
 amendment to it as he sees proper. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the com- 
 mittee rose and reported back the resolution 
 with the recommendation of the committee. 
 
 The recommendation of the committee was 
 then concmred in, and the resolution was 
 handed to the mover (Mr. Davis). 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. KING (at twelve 
 o'clock and fifteen minutes) the Convention 
 took a recess until half past two o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 The Convention was called to order at half- 
 past two o'clock. 
 
 On motion of Mr. MANTOR,— 
 
 " Ordered, That all engrossed reports be printed 
 immediately for the use of members, prepara- 
 tory to their third reading." 
 
438 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 11, 
 
 FINAL ADJOUKNMENT. 
 
 On motion of Mr. COLBURN, the follow- 
 ing resolution was taken from the table and 
 read, and considered, viz : 
 
 " Resolved, That this Convention adjourn with- 
 out day on Thursday the thirteenth instant." 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move the adoption of 
 the following substitute for the resolution : 
 
 " Hesolved, That this Convention adjourn with- 
 out day on Saturday the fifteenth instant." 
 
 Mr. HARDING moved to amend the sub- 
 stitute by adding thereto the words " at twelve 
 o'clock M." 
 
 The amendment was lost. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I will merely say that it 
 seems to me that we may be able to get 
 through with our business on Saturday night. 
 If it is generally understood that that time is 
 fixed upon for adjournment, the various com- 
 mittees which have business yet to do, will 
 attend to it with reference to adjourning at 
 that time. We shall have to fix upon some 
 definite time and it may as well be done now 
 as hereafter. 
 
 The substitute was adopted. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I now move that the res- 
 olution as amended be laid on the table. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I hope the motion will 
 not prevail. I am aware that some of our 
 members are detennined to leave on Saturday 
 night whether the Convention adjourn or not, 
 and that is the reason which has induced me 
 to try to get through with our business at 
 that time. If anything should occur by which 
 it should be found to be absolutely necessary 
 for us to remain here longer, it will be com- 
 petent for the Convention to rescind the reso- 
 lution when that fact is ascertained. But I 
 think there will be no necessity for that if 
 each member works with reference to an ad- 
 journment at that time. 
 
 Mr, COGGSWELL, I hope the resolution 
 will be adopted, (Cries of "no" "no,") I 
 sincerely hope that we shall all act with the 
 intention of being ready to adjourn at that 
 time. It seems to mo that we can just as 
 well be ready to adjourn at that time, if not 
 at an earlier day, as we can be six months 
 hence. I am well aware that there are some 
 members who would as soon remain here all 
 summer as not. Perhaps it is not necessary 
 to call names. But I am satisfied from the 
 action of certain men that they would as soon 
 
 remain here as not. I am myself anxious to 
 go home, and am bound to go home, Consti- 
 tutional Convention or no Constitutional Con- 
 vention. And this idea of waiting, and es- 
 pecially waiting on the action of our political 
 enemies, I do not like. I know, that so far 
 as our own business is concerned, we can 
 transact it by that time. I hope the resolu- 
 tion will pass, and that we shall all apply 
 ourselves to our work rigorously, and be ready 
 to depart by Saturday night. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE, called for the yeas and 
 nays upon the resolution, to lay the resolu- 
 tion on the table. 
 
 The yeas and nays were refused. 
 
 The motion to lay upon the table was not 
 agreed to. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I wish to say a word be- 
 fore the vote is taken upon the resolution. I 
 am probably as anxious to go home as any 
 member of this Convention. I have got rather 
 sick of sitting here, and desire to go home as 
 badly as my friend from Steele County (Mr. 
 Coggswell). But notwithstanding all this 
 personal anxiety, I am inclined to sit here 
 until our business is disposed of, if it takes 
 six months longer, I am not disposed to tie 
 up the hands of this Convention so as to 
 oblige it it to suspend its work next Saturday 
 whether we get through that time or not. 
 We have already spent five weeks here and 
 it would be extremely foolish to close our 
 labors and go home before we had accom- 
 plished what we were sent here to do. We may 
 have to sit two or three days longer and per- 
 haps a week. If we do, let us be in a con- 
 dition that we can do it. And even if it 
 should require six months longer time to com- 
 plete a Constitution as we would be willing 
 to submit to our constituents let us take that 
 time to do it — though at a personal sacrifice. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I move the previous ques- 
 tion. I do not want to discuss a resolution 
 which amounts to nothing anyway. 
 
 The previous question was seconded and 
 the main question ordered to be put ; and 
 under the operation thereof, the resolution was 
 agreed to. 
 
 ELECTIVE FBANCniSE, 
 
 On motion of Mr. CLEGIIORN, the Con- 
 vention resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole, (Mr. Aldrich in the Chair) upon 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tcesdat, August 11. 
 
 439 
 
 report number nineteen, from the committee 
 on Elective Franchise. 
 
 The report was read as follows : 
 
 "At the same election that this Constitution is 
 submitted to the people for its adoption or rejec- 
 tion, a proposition to amend the same by striking 
 out the word 'white' from article — , section 
 one, on the 'Right of Suffrage,' shall be sepa- 
 rately submitted to the electors of this State for 
 adoption or rejection in the manner following : 
 A separate ballot may be given by every person 
 having a right to vote at said election, to be deposi- 
 ted in a separate box ; and those given for the 
 adoption of such proposition shall have the words, 
 ' shall the word ' white ' be stricken out of the 
 article — , section one, on the ' Right of Suffrage V 
 Yes.' And those given against the propositton 
 shall have the words, 'Shall the word 'white' be 
 stricken out of article — , section one, on the 
 ' Right of Sufifrage !' No.' And if, at said elec- 
 tion, the number of ballots cast in favor of said 
 proposition shall be a majority of all those cast 
 on that subject, the said word 'white' shall be 
 stricken from said article, and be no part thereof." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move that the commit- 
 tee rise and report back the resolution with- 
 out recommendation. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the com- 
 mittee rose and reported accordingly. 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. I move that the report be 
 laid on the table in order to allow us to take 
 up the imflnished business of this forenoon. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move that the report 
 be referred to the committe on the Schedule, 
 with instructions to incorporate such a pro- 
 vision in the Schedule. 
 
 Mr. COG GS WELL. As one of the mem- 
 bers of that committee, I hope the motion 
 will not prevail, for the reason that that com- 
 mittee have more upon their hands now than 
 they can possibly act upon. If you are going 
 to heap any more burdens upon that com- 
 mittee, you had better add some members to 
 that committee, or take some away from it 
 who are as lazy as I am. 
 
 Mr. KING. It appears to me that upon 
 reading this article, that it cannot be voted 
 upon at aU at the next election. Our present 
 election laws require that all votes cast shall 
 be upon one ballot, while this article pro- 
 poses that this question shall be voted on, on 
 a separate ballot. I have an amendment to 
 offer, which, I think, will obviate that diflS- 
 culty. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The motion to refer 
 is first in order. 
 
 The question was taken, and the report was 
 referred to the committee on the Schedule, 
 with instructions to incorporate it into the 
 Schedule. 
 
 BOUXDABV OE THE STATE. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS, to whom was referred the 
 boundary resolution, this morning, reported 
 the same back to the Convention, modified as 
 follows : 
 
 "Besolved, That there shall be submitted to the 
 qualified voters of this Territory, at the same 
 time this Constitution shall be submitted for 
 their adoption or rejection, the following proposi. 
 tion, (or one substantially the same ;) and if the 
 same shall receive a majority of all the votes cast 
 for and against it, then the same shall be certified 
 to the Congress of the United States, as the wish 
 and request of the people to change the boundary 
 line of said proposed State accordingly. 
 
 "I^roposUion. — That the following alteration in 
 the boundary line mentioned in the act entitled 
 ' An act to authorize the people of Minnesota to 
 form a Constitution and State Government pre- 
 paratory to their admission into the Union on an 
 equal footing with the original States,' approved 
 March third, 1857, is desired by the people of the 
 said State of Minnesota; and if the same shall 
 be assented and agreed to on the part of the Con- 
 gress of the United States, then the same shall 
 become a part of the Constitution of said State of 
 Minnesota and shall be and forever remain obliga- 
 tory upon the State." 
 
 Then follows the boundaries proposed as 
 contained in the resolution as originally re- 
 ported. 
 
 Mr. COGGSVTELL. I wish to say that I 
 am a fiiend of this East and West line. I am 
 in favor of submitting this question to the 
 people ; and I am in favcw of having this 
 proposition, when it has been submitted to 
 the people, and when it has been ratified by 
 them, become a part and parcel of the Consti- 
 tution, and go to Congress as such. But I 
 am not in favor of that resolution, as it now 
 stands. I wish to ask who it is that can cer- 
 tify that preference, that wish, that desire, 
 which the people may express. How can it 
 be certified to Congress? And after you 
 have certified it to Congress, what does it 
 amount to ? Even after Congress has gran- 
 ted the prayer, the wish, and the desire of 
 inhabitants of this Territory, then what is it ? 
 It seems to me that the resolution, as it now 
 
440 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tcesdat, August .11 
 
 stands, amounts to nothing. It is not good 
 as a memorial. It is not as good as a resolu- 
 tion to be passed by this Convention, and for 
 one I am decidedly opposed to it. I want it 
 in such a shape that when it has been ratified 
 by a majority of the voters of this State, and 
 when it has been assented to by Congress, it 
 shall form a part and parcel of the Consti- 
 tution of the State of Minnesota. With that 
 view, I move that the resolution lie upon the 
 table until to-morrow, and in the meantime I 
 will prepare an amendment. 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 NEGRO SUFFBAQE. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I understand that 
 the resolution which I offered the other day, 
 upon the subject of submitting to the people 
 the question of negro suflfrage, was not 
 referred to the committee on the Schedule, 
 and as I desire to have a vote to know 
 whether it is the intention of this Convention 
 to have such a question submitted or not, I 
 move to take that resolution from the table, 
 and consider it at this time. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The resolution was read as follows : 
 
 " Hesohed, That there shall be submitted to the 
 qualified voters of this Territory, at the time this 
 Constitution is submitted to them for their ratifi- 
 cation or rejection, the following proposition, and 
 if it shall receive a majority of all the votes cast, 
 both for and against it, then it shall become a part 
 and portion of the Constitution ; otherwise it ahall 
 be absolutely null and void. 
 
 "Proposition 1. Every male person, of either 
 mixed or full African or Negro blood, of the age 
 of twenty-one years and upwards, and who shall 
 have resided in this State six months next pre- 
 ceding any election, andin^the town, precinct, or 
 ward in which he claims the right to vote, ten days 
 next preceding the same, shall be deemed a quali- 
 fied elector, and shall have the right to vote for all 
 officers which may be elected by the people." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. We have already referred 
 a resolution of this nature to the committee 
 on the Schedule, with instructions to incorpo- 
 rate such a provision into the Schedule. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. The gentleman prob- 
 ably refers to the action of the Convention 
 this morning. Now I apprehend that that 
 has nothing to do with the resolution now 
 before the Convention. As one of the com- 
 mittee on the Schedule, I would hke to liavo 
 the sense of this Convention taken in refer- 
 ence to this subject, and I do not know of any 
 
 better way of taking that sense, than by a 
 direct vote upon the passage of this resolution. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. Has not this Convention 
 this very afternoon adopted a similar resolu- 
 tion and referred it to the committee on the 
 Schedule, with instructions to incorporate the 
 same into the Constitution as a part and par- 
 cel of it ? If the gentleman merely wishes to 
 ascertain the sense of the Convention I have 
 no objection to voting on the resolution. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I wish to say that in 
 my judgment a proposition of the character 
 of the one I have offered would have an en- 
 tirely different effect, provided it were adopted, 
 than would the striking out the word " whitei" 
 from the article on the elective franchise. I 
 apprehend that by striking out the word 
 " white," from that article, it might affect a 
 class other and different from the negro, and 
 inasmuch as I desire to have this question of 
 negro suffrage submitted separately and dif- 
 tinctly and submitted upon its own merits, 
 entirely disconnected with the rights of the 
 Indian, the Chinese, or the rights of any body 
 else who may have a little color in their skin, 
 I wish a vote taken upon it by the Conven- 
 tion. If I recollect the way and manner in 
 which the article on the elective franchise now 
 stands, the striking out the word " white " 
 would have entirely a different effect from the 
 adoption of this proposition. For that reason 
 I want the sense of the Convention upon it. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. We have just acted upon 
 one proposition, which was to be submitted 
 to the people upon the subject of negro suf- 
 frage, and I did not suppose that it would 
 come up in any other form. I do not under- 
 stand now whether it is proposed to submit 
 that resolution as a separate proposition, dis- 
 tinct from this, and as a second proposition, 
 or whether it is to be substituted for the 
 proposition already adopted. If it is to be 
 submitted just in the manner proposed, it 
 seems to me that it ought to be printed and 
 laid before the Convention in a shape in which 
 it could be examined. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. As remarked by the 
 gentleman who has just taken his seat, this 
 matter has been disposed of to-day, and I 
 therefore move that the further consideration 
 of this resolution be indefinitely postponed. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL demanded the 3'eas 
 and nays. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, AcGtrsr 12. 
 
 441 
 
 The yeas and nays were refused. 
 
 The question was then taken, and the mo- 
 tion to postpone indefinitely was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE moved, (at three o'clock) 
 that the Convention adjourn. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. If the gentieman wffl 
 withdraw his motion I will move that we take 
 a recess for an hour. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I will withdraw my 
 motion. 
 
 Then on motion of Mr. GALBRAITH, 
 the Convention took a recess until four 
 o'clock. 
 
 The Convention re-assembled at four 
 o'clock. 
 
 COJCMirrEE OF COSFEBEXCE. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN offered tiie following reso- 
 lution : 
 
 "Sesolved, That the Secretary of this Conven- 
 tion is hereby directed to communicate to the pre- 
 siding officer of that portion of the delegates to the 
 Constitutional Convention assembled in the coun- 
 cil chamber of this Capitol, an attested copy of 
 the Preamble and Resolution in reference to a 
 committee of conference adopted on the tenth inst. 
 and the official action of this Convention thereon. 
 
 Mr. SECOilBE demanded the yeas and 
 nays upon the passage of the resolution. 
 
 The yeas and nays were refused. 
 
 The resolution was then adopted. 
 
 And thereupon, on motion of Mr._FOSTER, 
 the Convention adjourned. 
 
 TWENTY-SEVENTH DAY. 
 
 Wednesday, August 12th, 1858. 
 
 The Convention met at 9 o'clock, a. m. 
 
 Prayer by the Rev. Mr. Mattocks. 
 
 The journal of yesterday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 reports. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR, from the committee on En- 
 grossment reported back as correctly en- 
 grossed, report No. eighteen, on the Judiciary 
 Department. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE, from the committee on 
 Public Property made the following report 
 which was read a first and second time and 
 laid upon the table to be printed, viz : 
 
 "Sec. 1. The State shall have concurrent juris- 
 diction on the Mississippi, and all other rivers and 
 waters bordering on this State, so far as the same 
 shall form a boundary to this State and any other 
 56 
 
 State or States, now or hereafter to be formed or 
 bounded by the same, and said river and waters 
 leading into the same, shall be common highways, 
 and forever free, as well to the inhabitants of this 
 State as to all other citizens of the United States, 
 without any tax duty, import or toll therefor. 
 
 " Sec. 2. The people of the State in their right 
 of sovereignty, are declared to possess the ulti- 
 mate property in and to all lands within the juris- 
 diction of the State ; and all lands the title to which 
 shall fail from a defect of heirs, shall revert or 
 escheat to the people. 
 
 " Sec. 3. The title to all lands and other prop- 
 erty which has accrued to the Territory of Minne- 
 sota by grant, gift, purchase, forfeiture, escheat 
 or otherwise, shall vest in the State of Minnesota. 
 
 "Sec. 4. The proceeds of all lands that have 
 been or may hereafter be granted or set apart and 
 reserved by the United States to the Territory or 
 State of Minnesota, for the use and support of a 
 University, shall be and remain a perpetual fund 
 to be called the ' University Fund,' which shall 
 be appropriated to the use and support of the 
 ' University of Minnesota,' incorporated by an'act 
 of the Legislative Assembly of the said Territory, 
 and for no other purpose, in such manner as the 
 Legislature of the State shall prescribe, in accor- 
 dance with the provisions of the said act of incor- 
 poration, and not otherwise. 
 
 " Sec. 5. The proceeds of all lands that have 
 been or may hereafter be granted to the State for 
 the purpose of completing the public buildings, or 
 for the erection of others at the seat of govern- 
 ment shall be appropriated for the said purpose 
 exclusively, under the direction of the Legislature 
 of the State, and not otherwise. 
 
 " Sec. 6. Th« proceeds of all salt springs and 
 lands adjoining or contiguous thereto, that have 
 been or hereafter may be granted to the State for 
 its use, shall be appropriated to the use of the 
 State, to be used or disposed of on such terms, 
 conditions and regulations as the Legislature of 
 the State shall direct, and not otherwise. 
 
 "Sec 7. The five per centum of the net proceeds 
 of sales of the public lands lying within the State, 
 which shall be paid to the State for the purpose of 
 making public roads and internal improvements 
 shall be appropriated for the said purpose exclu- 
 sively, as the Legislature of the State shall direct, 
 and not otherwise. 
 
 " All of which is respectfnlly submitted." 
 
 BOrjfDABIES OF THE STATE. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move that the res- 
 olution offered by the gentleman from Nicol- 
 let, (Mr. Davis) which was laid over yester- 
 day, be now taken up. 
 
 The motion was agreed to and the resolu- 
 tion was again read to the Convention. 
 
 On motion of Mr. COGGSWELL, the Con- 
 vention resolved itself into a Committee of 
 
442 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednespat, August 12. 
 
 the Whole, (Mr. Thompson in the Chair,) 
 upon the resolution just taken from the table. 
 
 (For resolution, see proceedings of Monday 
 and Tuesday.) 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move to strike out 
 all after the word " it," in the thirteenth line, 
 and insert the following : " Then the same 
 " shall go to the Congress of the United States 
 " with this Constitution, and, if assented to 
 " by Congress, then the same shall be a part 
 " of said Constitution, and binding upon the 
 " people of the State of Minnesota, without 
 " any further act upon their part" — 
 
 So that the whole clause shall read as fol- 
 lows: 
 
 " Besolved, That there shall be submitted to the 
 qualified voters of this Territory, at the same time 
 this Constitution shall be submitted for their adop- 
 tion or rejection, the following proposition, (or one 
 substantially the same) ; and if the same shall re- 
 ceive a majority of all the votes cast for and against 
 it, then the same shall go to the Congress of the 
 United States with this Constitution, and if assent- 
 ed to by Congress, then -the same shall be a part of 
 said Constitution and binding upon the people of 
 the State of Minnesota without any further act 
 upon their part." 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I move to amend by stri- 
 king out all after the words, " main channel 
 " of the Mississippi river," and insert, " until 
 " it is intersected by the parallel of forty-five 
 " degrees north latitude, thence west on said 
 "parallel of latitude until it intersects the 
 " Missouri river at the place of beginning." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. We had this resolution 
 before us day before yesterday and yester- 
 day, and after a long discussion it was ascer- 
 tained that members did not imderstand 
 what the proposition was, as it was not in 
 print. The tru3 state of the proposition was 
 only accidentally made known to the commit- 
 tee by a reference to the newspapers. AVe 
 have it up before us again, and it has not 
 been printed. To avoid errors, and the un- 
 pleasant predicament in which we found our- 
 selves the other day, I move that the commit- 
 tee rise, report back the resolution to the Con- 
 vention with a recommendation that the same 
 be printed. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The committee accordingly rose, and re- 
 ported the resolution to the Convention, with 
 the recommendation of the committee. 
 
 The question being upon ordering the reso- 
 lution to be printed — 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL said : I think, Mr, 
 President, that every member of this Con- 
 vention must necessarily know that, in the 
 first place, it is entirely useless to order that 
 resolution printed; and in the next place, 
 that it is only a mode which has been 
 adopted by the enemies of this resolution, to 
 stave the thing off; for we know that, in the 
 present state of our printing, the resolution 
 will not be printed and laid upon our tables 
 until the time arrives which we have fixed for 
 adjourning. And I want the friends of this 
 measure to understand what is intended by 
 this movement. I call for the yeas and nays 
 upon the question of ordering the resolution 
 to be printed — for that, in substance, is the 
 recommendation of the Committee of the 
 Whole. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being taken it was decided in the af- 
 firmative — ^yeas 25, nays 22, as follows : 
 
 Yeas. — Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Baldwin, 
 Bates, Bolles, BuLler, Cederstam, Coombs, Eschlie, 
 Foster, Folsom, Galbraith, Hayden, Hudson, Han- 
 son, Lowe, Messer, Morgan, North, Peckham, 
 Russell, Stannard, Sheldon, Vaughn, and Wi- 
 nell. — 25 votes. 
 
 Kays. — Messrs. Bartholomew, Billings, Colburn, 
 Cleghorn, Coggswell, Davis, Duley, Dickerson, 
 Harding, King, Lyle, Mantor, McCann, McKune, 
 McClure, Mills, Phelps, Secombe, Thompson, Wat- 
 son, Wilson, and the President. — 22 votes. 
 
 So the recommendation was concurred in. 
 
 Mr. BUTLER. I move to reconsider the 
 vote by which the Convention ordered the re- 
 solution to be printed. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I move a call of the 
 House. 
 
 A call of the House was ordered, and the 
 roll being called, the following members failed 
 to answer to their names : 
 
 Messrs. Ayer, Bartholomew, Gerrish, 
 Hall, Holley, Kemp, and Murphy. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN moved that all further pro- 
 ceedings under the call .be dispensed with ; 
 which motion was not agreed to. 
 
 The Sergeant-at-Arms was directed to re- 
 port the absentees in their seats. 
 
 After an interval of fifteen minutes — 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN moved to reconsider the 
 vote by which the Convention refused to sus- 
 pend all further proceedings under the call. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, ArcrsT 12. 
 
 443 
 
 The motion to reconsider prevailed, and 
 then all further proceedings under the call 
 were dispensed with. 
 
 The question was then put upon the motion 
 to reconsider the vote by which the Conven- 
 tion ordered the resolution, offered by Mr. 
 Davis, to be printed ; and the motion to re- 
 consider prevailed. 
 
 The question then recurred upon the mo- 
 tion to print, and being put it was not 
 agreed to. 
 
 The resolution was then before the Con- 
 vention for amendment or adoption. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I rose and addressed the 
 Chair before the motion to print was put. I 
 wished to give some reasons why I made the 
 motion to have the proposition printed. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair was not 
 aware that the gentleman addressed the Chair. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. It is very clear that mem- 
 bers of the Convention did not understand 
 the question when it was put, from the fact 
 that nobody voted for it ; when it is well 
 known that there is a large number, if not a 
 majority here, who desire to have this resolu- 
 tion printed. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I move to reconsider 
 the vote by which the Convention refused to 
 order the resolution to be printed. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I do hope that this 
 resolution will be disposed of to-day. If it 
 is the desire of this Convention to kill it, I 
 want them to do it like men. Let them come 
 up like men and vote right plump against it. 
 I dislike this method of getting up motions 
 which will have the same effect, and behind 
 which gentlemen undertake to shield them- 
 selves from public ignominy. As one of the 
 representatives of a district deeply interested 
 in this matter, I ask that this resolution may 
 be passed ; I ask, too, that it may be passed 
 or the reason that it is carrying out a Re- 
 publican principle; I ask that it may be 
 passed for the reason that I know that it will 
 enhance and increase the interest of the Re- 
 publican party. But if it is the wish and de- 
 sire of the members of this Convention to 
 knock it in the head, I desire that they shall 
 come up like men, in open daylight, and do it. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I desire to offer a substitute. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The motion before the 
 Convention is a motion to reconsider. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I stated that I wanted to 
 
 offer some reasons why I thought this docu- 
 ment ought to be printed. At the commence- 
 ment of our session we adopted a general rule 
 that all reports emanating from committees, 
 however unimportant they might be, should 
 be printed. Now here comes before us a pro- 
 position which it is proposed to make a part 
 of our Constitution in a certain conting-ncy, 
 and which is to be submitted to the people to 
 be voted upon by them. It comes before us 
 in manuscript, and we only hear it read. It 
 seems to me to be eminently proper that every 
 proposition which is proposed to be submitted 
 to the people of the Territory, and which, in 
 a contingency, may become a part of the Con- 
 stitution, should be printed and laid before 
 members, that they may examine it, and see 
 all its bearings. It is no more than a matter 
 of courtesy to members of this body that 
 they should have before them, in printed form, 
 all the propositions upon which they are ex- 
 pected to act. It is a courtesy which is usu- 
 ally extended in such cases, and ought not to 
 be denied. The pretence which has been sta- 
 ted here, that this motion is made for the pur- 
 pose of staving off action, is entirely without 
 foundation, in fact. As I stated before, we 
 had this proposition before us in another form 
 on Monday last, and the occurrences of that 
 day ought to teach the gentleman from Steele 
 county that such a motion as this is eminently 
 proper, to say the least of it, if not absolutely 
 necessary. It became evident, after a long 
 debate, that members did not understand 
 what the resolution was, and they admitted 
 that it was so, and it arose from the fact that 
 they had only heard it read from the clerk's 
 desk. Now it comes before us again, in 
 amended form, and it has not been printed. 
 It is very important that every proposition 
 should be thoroughly understood by mem- 
 bers, and we cannot understand the precise 
 bearing of this matter just from hearing it 
 read. And allow me to say here, that most 
 of the mistakes which are committed, and the 
 frauds which are perpetrated, in legislation, 
 have been brought about by a failure of hav- 
 ing matters printed which come before legis- 
 lative bodies. 
 
 I therefore hope that the vote by which the 
 Convention refused to order the resolution to 
 be printed will be reconsidered, and then that 
 the motion will be adopted. 
 
444 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 12. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I wish to say in reference 
 to my vote upon this matter, that I had no 
 disposition to delay the consideration of this 
 resolution, or to stave it oif, and finally to de- 
 feat it. The gentleman from Steele will recol- 
 lect that I have told him repeatedly that when 
 the proposition came hefore the Convention in 
 a proper shape, so that I could vote for it un- 
 derstandingly, I would do so most heartily 
 and cheerfully. It will be recollected, that 
 day before yesterday, after a long discussion, 
 and as we were about coming to a vote, it 
 was discovered that the resolution, if adopted, 
 would have knocked our acceptance of the 
 Enabling Act in the head, and we should have 
 been just where we were before we left home, 
 so far as our connection with Congress is con- 
 cerned, because we should have left it an open 
 question whether Congress would accept it or 
 not. Men may not view that matter in the 
 exact light that I do ; but I think I view it in 
 a correct light, and therefore I moved to refer 
 it back to have it altered. The report came 
 back to us yesterday amended, and amended 
 in a manner satisfactory to me, and was laid 
 over until to-day. To-day it comes up and 
 another alteration is made or proposed, ema- 
 nating from the friends of the resolution. 
 Now I do not profess to be particularly skilled 
 in discussing technicalities, but I think that 
 gentlemen have not acted perfectly upright in 
 this. I did suppose that in the first instance 
 when the matter was referred back to the 
 gentlemen who ofiered it, that he would con- 
 sult with his friends, and that they would get 
 up something which they themselves could 
 stand by and which we could understand 
 without difficulty, if they wanted us to act 
 upon the resolution without having it printed. 
 Why could they not get up a thing which we 
 could understand and which there could be 
 no mistake about ? and not come here, after 
 having done what they have, and charge us 
 with a disposition to stave off" and defeat a 
 matter which they have at heart. I am per- 
 fectly willing that the question should be sub- 
 mitted to the people, and I hope that all 
 those individuals who have not interest 
 enough in a north and south line to vote 
 upon it, will be defeated. I think it is a ques- 
 tion which is important enough to call out a 
 vote. I am willing that these gentlemen shall 
 have a vote, and do their best ; and may the 
 
 party, which does not feel interest enough to 
 go into the field and fight the battle, be de- 
 feated. I have no personal feeling upon the 
 subject. I vote for the proposition as a mat- 
 ter of accommodation, just as I would in any 
 other matter in which I had no personal feel- 
 ing, and in which there was no principle at 
 stake. But I want to vote for a proposition 
 properly worded and guarded, and I do not 
 want to be charged with making an attempt 
 to stave off" a matter for which I intend to 
 vote. . I repudiate the charge entirely. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I wish to say a few 
 words in regard to the statement made by the 
 gentleman concerning discoveries which he 
 made yesterday ; or discoveries that anybody 
 else made — if that suits him any better — of 
 certain language, which, if adopted, would 
 have knocked us a "kiting," as he says. I 
 hold in my hand the first part of that resolu- 
 tion, and I will read it, and then see how far 
 it would have knocked us up. The language 
 is this : 
 
 "And if the same shall receive a majority of all 
 the votes cast, both for and against it, then the 
 same shall be a part of this Constitution, and go 
 with the same to the Congress of the United 
 States, to be acted upon by them as they may see 
 proper, &c." 
 
 Now I pretend to say that that was in the 
 right, the proper, and the correct language ; 
 and I pretend to say that if it had passed in 
 that shape, instead of embarrassing our ad- 
 mission into the Union, it would have for- 
 warded that object ; that instead of prolong- 
 ing the time before we should come into the 
 Union as a State, in my judgment it would 
 have shortened it. Now when we come to 
 look into the Constitution of Wisconsin, we 
 find there ten thousand times stronger lan- 
 guage than this, and we find it there to-day 
 as a part and portion of her Constitution — a 
 provision which in its language is a great deal 
 stronger than that which is used here ; and 
 yet it did not embarrass her admission into 
 the Union as a State. But we have some re- 
 markably wise men in our Convention — men 
 who possess a great deal more wisdom and 
 sagacity than the men who framed the Con- 
 stitution of Wisconsin. They did not sup- 
 pose when they were incorporating into their 
 Constitution language a great deal stronger 
 than this, that it would embarrass their ad- 
 mission into the Union at all. Not by any 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— "Wednesday, August 12. 
 
 445 
 
 means. They framed their Constitution un- 
 der an Enabling Act substantially like ours, 
 and which prescribed their boundaries just 
 as ours does ours. Now I pretend to say 
 that all this hue and cry raised about this 
 matter is for effect. I say that that language, 
 if adopted would hasten the time of our ad- 
 mission into the Union, for I know of 20,000 
 inhabitants of this Territory who are deeply 
 interested in this question of the boundary 
 Une, and I know that unless their rights are 
 respected, the Repubhean part}', who are 
 trampling upon their own principles, will be 
 suflferers. 
 
 So far as I am concerned I do not desire to 
 insert any language into the resolution which 
 would embarrass our admission into the Union, 
 and I dislike very much that gentlemen should 
 rise here, and insinuate substantially that I 
 undertake to play a trick by inserting lan- 
 guage, which will have a tendency to keep us 
 out of the Union for a considerable time to 
 come. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. It seems to me that re- 
 marks which throw out flings about the 
 wisdom of men who occupy seats in this Con- 
 vention, are uncalled for. If some of us 
 choose to dififer with those who drew up this 
 resolution, and if we entertain the idea that 
 it really does contain language which would 
 have an injurious effect upon our interest, I 
 don't know that we should have taunts thrown 
 out that we are not as wise as the men who 
 framed the Wisconsin Constitution. We 
 may be and we may not be as wise, but 
 whether we are or not, I do not know as that 
 is a question which we need contend about at 
 this time. 
 
 It seems to me there is a great deal of un- 
 neccessary effort on the part of some gende- 
 men from certain portions of the Territory to 
 place themselves right before their constitu- 
 ents, and that there is unnecessary haste in 
 this matter. I would like to accommodate 
 those gentlemen who desire that this question 
 shall be submittted to the people, and if it 
 can be done in such a form as to make it en- 
 tirely safe, it seems to me that no harm can 
 be done by it, — no more than this, that it 
 would make it incumbent upon us, who are 
 in fiivq;r of a North and South line, to fight 
 that battle ; and if those who are in favor of 
 an East and West line, fight as hard, we might 
 
 be brought into conflict throughout the cam- 
 paign. But it seems to me that if this mat- 
 ter is delayed a little, and we await the action 
 of the Conference Committee, the thing can be 
 settled without any difficulty whatever. With 
 that view, and for that purpose I voted to 
 have the resolution printed. It seems to me 
 that if we await the result of present negotia- 
 tions about submitting one Constitution, that 
 might inflence our conclusions veiy much 
 about the propriety of submitting this ques- 
 tion to the people. But at any rate, it seems 
 to me that the form of this memorial shoiild 
 be weU considered, and that gentlemen should 
 have an opportunity to know what they are 
 called to vote upon, and that when they do . 
 raise objections they should not be called very 
 foolish, if they do chance to difler with other 
 gentlemen in reference to it. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. The last argument I ever 
 heard of being brought up in favor of any 
 cause, is that some gentlemen are not capable 
 of understanding some thing, and had been 
 misxmderstood heretofore, and may be again. 
 Whose fault is it that they did not under- 
 stand the meaning of the resolution? Are 
 we bound to go round and interpret it to 
 them, or to bring up something which we 
 know they can imderstand? Those who can 
 not understand this, -will never understand 
 anything. If it is through inadvertence, it is 
 their own fault, and not ours. 
 
 That any person tried to deceive, so far as 
 I am concerned, I know of no such thing, 
 and I beheve there was no such thing. I 
 prefer to vote here, and now, and have this 
 thing settled. I do not want to discuss it 
 further, nor do I want insinuations thrown 
 out that there was an intention to deceive. 
 It is a short matter, plainly written and plain- 
 ly worded, and if gentlemen do not under- 
 stand it now, it can be read again. I have 
 never seen it at all, but I have heard it read, 
 and I do not believe there is any thing intri- 
 cate in it. 
 
 Mr. MESSER. Perhaps the gentleman 
 trusted more to the remarks of gentlemen 
 upon that side than to the resolution itself; 
 and if we had trusted to them, no one would 
 ever have mistrusted that there were any such 
 ideas contained in the resolution, as were 
 found to be contained in it. They asked of 
 us m«rely that we sboidd let this question go 
 
446 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, Attgust 12. 
 
 to the people that they might vote upon it and 
 that then it should be a memorial, a mere re- 
 quest to Congi-ess. Instead of that we found, 
 that if it received a majority of the votes of 
 the people, it was to be part and parcel of the 
 Constitution. In that respect gentlemen found 
 that they had been mistaken. I think it arose 
 from the fact that they relied upon the re- 
 marks of gentlemen, and not upon the resolu- 
 tion itself. And I cannot understand why 
 gentlemen, who have urged upon the Conven- 
 tion that this should go before the people, and 
 go up to Congress as a request merely, de- 
 tached entirely from the Constitution, should 
 now change about and introduce an amend- 
 ment which will make it a- part of the Con- 
 stitution. If all they desire is that it shall go 
 simply as a memorial and request to Congress 
 why not adopt the amendment suggested by 
 the gentleman from Goodhue county, (Mr. 
 McClure.) 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I want it fully uftderstood 
 that I never spoke of making it anything but 
 a mere request, and not a part of the Consti- 
 tution. I never thought of any such thing, 
 and never used any language that could be 
 construed into any such meaning. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I spoke yesterday in fa- 
 vor of the passage of this resolution, and I 
 am one of those who really did misapprehend 
 the import of the resolution ; and I think if 
 any one will take the trouble to read the re- 
 marks of the mover of the resolution as re- 
 ported in some of the papers, he will see that 
 the impression that gentlemen conveyed is dif- 
 ferent from that conveyed by the resolution 
 itself. Now while I was willing to vote for 
 such a resolution as I supposed that to be, 
 it was not because I have any personal anx- 
 iety about the matter, but because I was 
 willing to accommodate my friends and the 
 people of southern Minnesota. If they wish 
 to vote upon a proposition of that kind, I was 
 willing to afford them the opportunity ; and 
 the only privilege which I thought ought to be 
 extended to them in this case, was that they 
 should vote upon what was substantially, a 
 memorial to Congress, asking them to change 
 the boundaries. If Congress saw fit to grant 
 the request, then the propriety of having that 
 change put into the Constitution must be 
 manifest. I supposed that that was all the 
 resolution contemplated, but when I came to 
 
 see it in print, I saw immediately that a dif- 
 ferent idea was expressed by it ; that it was to 
 become part of the Constitution before it went 
 to Congress. It seems to me that that would 
 be undoing what we have before done. That 
 I did not propose to do. Now I do not claim 
 to have any great powers of comprehension, 
 and I admit that I was a little mistaken in 
 that respect. Now I would like to see the 
 resolution printed before I vote upon it, or be- 
 fore the Convention take any action upon it. 
 It seems to me that a matter of so much im- 
 portance as this ought not to be acted upon 
 with precipitation, and it seems to me that the 
 advocates of this resolution, who feel so deep 
 an interest in it, are injuring their cause by 
 too great precipitation. I certainly am not 
 willing to go to the extent they desire. If 
 they wish to hasten the thing through, let 
 them go ahead, but do not blame us for not 
 voting for it. For one I want to see the reso- 
 lution printed, and I want members to see it 
 in print. When gentlemen say that I am en- 
 deavoring too kill this resolution by indirect 
 means, they charge that which is false. I am 
 willing that the people should have a chance 
 to vote upon this question, that it may be 
 submitted to Congress, and if Congress sees 
 fit to respect the wishes of the people in that 
 respect, they may do so and incorporate it 
 into the Constitution, and not before. That 
 is as far as I desire to go. I think there will 
 be time enough to print and lay this resolution 
 before the Convention. I do not think we 
 shall adjourn under three or four days, to say 
 the least. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. As an individual member 
 of the Convention, I am not anxious to ex- 
 tend to the people the privilege of saying 
 whether they will have any other State than 
 that proposed to us by Congress. Certain 
 gentlemen have manifested a great deal of 
 feeling upon this subject, and I have expressed 
 my willingness to aid and assist them, pro- 
 vided always that it could be done in a way, 
 not in any wise to embarrass our application 
 for admission into the Union. I do not know 
 but I may be very dull of comprehension, 
 but it is not by any means clear to my mind 
 that we can say to Congress that we accept 
 of their proposal contained in the Enabling 
 Act, and at the same lime a proposition for 
 something different, It looks to me very 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wedsesdat. August 12. 
 
 447 
 
 I 
 
 much like the case of the man who offered a 
 thousand dollars to any person who was per- 
 fectly contented with his condition. Presently 
 a claim was made for the money. "Are you 
 contented '? " " Certainly I am." " "Well then 
 what do you want of the thousand dollars?" 
 If we are willing to accept of the Une proposed 
 by Congress, Congress may well ask us what 
 we want of a different line. I beheve it is 
 the right of Congress to dispose of the Terri' 
 ries as she thinks best, and it is their partic- 
 ular business so to cut them up as will be best 
 for the country at large. They have had an 
 eye to the formation of other States, in car- 
 ving out this particular State of Minnesota. 
 
 Now I say it must be perfectly clear to my 
 mind that we are not taking any course which 
 Avill embaiTass us, or our Constitution, before 
 I can vote for this resolution. I am satisfied 
 in my own mind that it will have no other 
 effect than to tickle the constituents of cer- 
 tain gentlemen, for I am satisfied that a ma- 
 jority of the people of the Territory are op- 
 posed to it, and that Congress would grant 
 no such request. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I do not believe we can get 
 this resolution printed in time to act upon it 
 before we adjourn, and I believe it is the in- 
 tention of some gentlemen to kill it by delay, 
 in that way. 
 
 The question was then taken on the motion 
 to reconsider the vote by which the Conven- 
 tion refused to order the resolution printed, 
 and it was lost. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I now offer the following 
 substitute for the first part of the resolution : 
 
 " The people are hereby authorized to vote on 
 a separate ballot, for such boundary Ime for the 
 State of Minnesota as they shall desire ; and if a 
 majority of all the votes cast for and against the 
 Constitution shall be in favor of a different boun- 
 dary line from that prescribed in the first article 
 of this Constitution, the said vote on being certi- 
 fied by the Governor of the State to both Houses 
 of Congress, shall be the memorial of the people 
 of Minnesota asking Congress to modify the boun- 
 dary line of Minnesota in the manner and form 'in- 
 dicated as aforesaid by the votes of a majority of 
 the people." 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I wish to inquire if 
 that is not precisely, or substantially the sub- 
 stitute which was offered yesterday for this 
 same resolution, and if so, whether it is not 
 out of order to offer the same amendment a 
 second time ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair's recollec- 
 tion is that it was offered in committee of the 
 Whole, but that it has never been offered in 
 Convention. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. That is the fact. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is then in order. 
 
 Mr. KING. I move to lay that substitute 
 on the table. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER called for the yeas and nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being taken it was decided in the 
 affirmative, yeas thirty-two, and nays nine- 
 teen, as follows : 
 
 Teas. — Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Baldwin, 
 Bartholomew, Billings, BoUes, Butler, Colburn, 
 Coggswell, Coe, Coombs, Davis, Duley, Dicker- 
 son, Hayden, Harding, Hudson, King, Lowe, Man- 
 tor, McCann, McKune, McClure, Mills, Perkins, 
 Peckham, Bobbins, Secombe, Thompson, Watson, 
 Wilson, and the President. — 32. 
 
 Xays. — Messrs. Bates, Cederstam, Eschlie, 
 Foster, Folsom, Galbraith, Gerrish, Hall, Hanson, 
 Lyle, Messer, Morgan, North, Phelps, Putnam, 
 Russell, Stannard, Vaughn, Walker, and Wi- 
 nell.— 20. 
 
 So the substitute was laid on the table. 
 
 Mr. THOMPSON. I move that the reso- 
 lution be laid on the table and made the spe- 
 cial order for to-morrow afternoon. 
 
 Mr. COGGSAVELL. It will be recollected 
 by members of this Convention that we have 
 voted to adjourn on Saturday next. Some- 
 thing has been said here in regard to the com- 
 mittee of Conference which is in anticipation 
 of being appointed by the Convention which 
 is now sitting in the other end of the Capitol, 
 and inasmuch as reference has been made to 
 that subject I wish to say a few words. Now 
 if a committee of that character is appointed 
 and that committee should meet the commit- 
 tee we are about to appoint, I suppose it is 
 generally understood that the committee 
 which is appointed upon our part should have 
 all the substantial parts and portions of our 
 Constitution ready to be taken into consider- 
 ation by that joint committee ; that is to say, 
 " go-betweens " who have had conversations 
 with me on the subject, have stated that it 
 was wisdom that our committee should have, 
 at the time they meet the other committee to 
 take into consideration the matters referred 
 to them, all the parts and portions of our 
 Constitution. Well then if that is necessary, 
 I desire that they shall have this particultff 
 subject matter before them, and that they 
 
448 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 12. 
 
 should have the negro suffrage subject, and 
 all other subjects which it is proper to submit 
 to the people in any way shape or manner. 
 And if a committee of that character is ap- 
 pointed by that body, in my judgment it will 
 be appointed to day ; and if it is appointed 
 to-day, as a matter of course, the two Com- 
 mittees can meet to-morrow ; and if they are 
 to meet at all, it does seem exceedingly de- 
 sirable that they should meet as soon as that 
 time. Now if we postpone this resolution 
 until to-morrow, as a matter of course that 
 committee cannot have it to present to the 
 other committee. It seems to me that we 
 can dispose of this matter now just as well as 
 at at any other time ; and that there are other 
 matters which should be taken up, and as 
 soon as they are taken up, that they should 
 be disposed of. If we are going to adjourn 
 when we have proposed, we should do some 
 business before that time. But if we go on 
 in this way, when Saturday comes around, 
 we shall have as much business before us as 
 we have to-day. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I hope the motion will 
 not prevail, though not particularly for the 
 reasons offered by the gentleman from Steele 
 county. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I rise to a question of 
 order. This is a motion to lay upon the table 
 and is not debatable. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair considers 
 the point of order well taken, and must rule 
 that debate is out of order. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Is not a motion to lay 
 upon the table until a specific time, deba- 
 table? 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I was about to suggest 
 that the motion was not a simple motion to 
 lay upon the table. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. In the opinion of the 
 Chair a motion to lay a resolution on the table 
 and make it a special order for a particular 
 time would be debatable ; but a simple mo- 
 tion to lay upon the table would not be. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I was about to say that I 
 did not desire action upon this matter for the 
 same reason as that suggested by the gentleman 
 from Steele county, for I am opposed to pre- 
 dicating any action in this Convention upon 
 any anticipated action of any committees 
 whatever. I think the duty of this Conven- 
 tion is to go on with its work assiduously and 
 
 as fast as possible. But I am opposed to 
 laying this resolution upon the table for the 
 reason that I believe we are just as well pre- 
 pared to take action upon it to-day as we 
 shall be to-morrow. We spent nearly all day 
 yesterday upon it, and all of this day thus 
 far ; and I believe we ought to be prepared to 
 vote upon it now, if we ever are. I see nj) 
 necessity for delay. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I have been in favor of de- 
 ferring this matter to a future time, but I see 
 that the friends of the resolution are anxious 
 to have it brought to a vote now. If they 
 do wish to press it to a vote I shall be obliged 
 to vote against it. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I rise to deny the assertion 
 of the gentleman. As one of the friends of 
 the resolution, I do not wish to press it to a 
 vote at the present time. I am very anxious 
 that this resolution should prevail, for the 
 reason that I believe that the future of our 
 State depends in a great measure upon the 
 passage of this resolution. I hope gentlemen 
 will not get their ire up and vote against it be- 
 cause their petty motion, to put it off to a 
 particular day, cannot pass. I am willing, 
 myself to have it made a special order for to- 
 morrow. I want gentlemen to understand 
 the resolution they are called to vote upon it, 
 because I believe there are some here, who, if 
 they did understand it as amended this morn- 
 ing by my friend, Mr. Coggswell, would vote 
 for it. I am satisfied that the resolution as 
 amended by myself yesterday, is not exactly 
 as I intended to have it. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I wish simply to correct 
 the gentleman. If he has the idea that we 
 have our ire up he is mistaken. But when I 
 understand from a reliable source that it is 
 not expected to carry this resolution, and that 
 the object is to get it off our hands, I was 
 disposed to gratify the friends of the resolu- 
 tion in that manner. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I must correct the gentleman 
 again. I deny that my object is to press this 
 matter to a vote. I hope it will be carried, 
 and I believe it will be. At any rate I know 
 that a sufficient number of delegates to this 
 Convention have ofiered to support the reso- 
 lution if brought up in a manner and shape 
 not objectionable, to carry it. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. The position of the gen- 
 tleman from Rice County (Mr. Nokth) is 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wedxesdat, August 12. 
 
 449 
 
 rather an acute one. He says he wiU vote 
 against it now, but he does not intimate 
 that he will vote for it to-morrovr. "We can 
 decide it now as well as we can to-morrow, or 
 at any other time. Every man is prepared to 
 vote upon it, and no man will say that the gen- 
 tleman from Rice Coimty will vote for it, if 
 it is postponed until to-morrow. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I move the previous ques- 
 tion. 
 
 The previous question was seconded and 
 the main question ordered to be put. 
 
 The question recurring upon the motion to 
 lay the resolution on the table and make it the 
 special order for to-morrow. 
 
 Mr. WILSON said : I rise to a point of 
 order. When the main question is ordered 
 does it not bring us to a vote upon the reso- 
 lution itself, and can an incidental motion of 
 that kind come up ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is the opinion of the 
 Chair that the motion to postpone is the main 
 question. If an amendment were pending 
 when the previous question was ordered, the 
 Convention would first be brought to vote 
 upon the amendment and then upon the res- 
 olution itself. The motion before the Con- 
 vention, when the previous question was or- 
 dered, was the motion to lay upon the table. 
 And the Convention is brought to a vote upon 
 that in the first instance, and then upon the 
 passage of the resolution. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. My point was that this 
 motion to lay upon the table, &c., is an inci- 
 dental motion which would be cut ofif by the 
 previous question. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I rise to a point of order. 
 Unless the gentleman appeals from the de- 
 cision of the Chair, he is out of order. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I do not wish to appeal 
 firom the decision of the Chair. The question 
 is not of sufficient importance. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. Questions of order 
 must be decided without debate. 
 
 Mr. BATES called for the yeas and nays 
 upon the motion to lay the resolution on the 
 table, and make it the special order. 
 
 The yeas and nays were refused. 
 
 The question was then taken, and it was de- 
 cided in the affirmative. 
 
 So the resolution was laid upon the table 
 and made the special order for to-morrow af- 
 ternoon. 
 57 
 
 Mr. BOBBINS, fi-om the committee on In- 
 ternal Improvements made the following re- 
 port, which was read a first and second time 
 and laid upon the table to be printed, viz : 
 
 "Internal improvements shall forever be en- 
 couraged by the Legislature of this State ; but in 
 no case shall the credit of the State be pledged fcr 
 anv object of internal improvements, nor shall the 
 Legislature in any case create or incur a State 
 debt for this object, without at the same time pro- 
 viding means for the payment of the interest and 
 final liquidation of the same." 
 
 The Convention then took a recess until 
 half past two o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention reassembled at half past 
 two o'clock. 
 
 PAYMENT OF MEMBEBS. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR offered the foUowing reso- 
 lution : 
 
 " Sesolved, That the certificates of mileage, 
 signed by the President and attested by the Sec- 
 retary, be issued to each member of this Consti- 
 tutional Convention, and that the Territorial Trea- 
 surer be authorized to pay the same out of the 
 fund appropriated by law for defraying the expen- 
 ses of this Convention; and on production of said 
 certificates by the said Treasurer, the amount of 
 the same shall be allowed to him as a credit against 
 any moneys in his hands, appropriated as aforesaid 
 on the final adjustment of his accounts in relation 
 to the said fund." 
 
 Mr. M. said : Under our rules, if this res- 
 olution gives rise to debate, it lies over one 
 day. I really hope the Convention will sus- 
 pend its rules so far as to allow this resoultion 
 to be considered and acted upon at this time. 
 For my own part, I think I am quite modest 
 in offering a resolution to pay members their 
 mileage, without the per diem. It seems to 
 be understood that this Convention is " short" 
 — short, I mean in pocket. I see, that by a 
 resolution adopted yesterday, we are to ad- 
 journ on Saturday next, and I offer this reso- 
 lution to relieve us from the difficulty under 
 which we are laboring (laughter.) If we 
 adopt the resolution it will be expediting so 
 much of the business of the Convention. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I think the resolution is 
 unnecessary. An act was passed by the 
 Territorial Legislature, at its last extra ses- 
 sion, which covers this whole ground fully, 
 and if we can by any means have the order 
 of this Convention carried ,out,^at any time 
 
450 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 12. 
 
 between the present and the time when we 
 shall adjourn, it will be discovered that full 
 provision has been made for the payment of 
 the per diem and mUeage of members. It 
 will be remembered that at an early day of 
 our session, the Convention ordered the 
 printing of two hundred copies of that act. 
 It has not been done. 
 
 The PKESIDENT. As the resolution has 
 given rise to debate, it will lie over, under the 
 rules one day. 
 
 EXPENSES OF THE CONVENTION. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. As this matter of the ex- 
 penses of the Convention has come up, I move 
 that the Secretary be instructed to procure the 
 execution forthwith of the order of the Conven- 
 tion, made at an early day of its session, for the 
 printing of two hundred copies of the act of 
 the Legislature in regard to the expenses of 
 the Constitutional Convention. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Secretary in- 
 forms the Chair that he has performed his 
 duty, by furnishing the printer with a copy 
 of the order, and requesting him to furnish 
 the printing therein ordered. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would inquire if that 
 has been done within a short time ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It was done at the 
 time of the passage of the order, and the Sec- 
 retary has spoken to the printer about it 
 several times since. 
 
 The Chair is further informed that it was 
 partly set up in the printing oflBce, but that 
 the act was then lost, and the Secretary was 
 unable to get another copy. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I hope that by some 
 means another copy may be procured and 
 printed. I would like to see it myself, and 
 probably a great many others desire the same 
 thing. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would inquire what 
 became of the resolution I offered at an early 
 part of the sesion to procure a copy of that 
 act ? It was offered, but not disposed of 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I have always under- 
 stood that this Convention was assembled, 
 and was acting under the Enabling Act of 
 Congress, and not under the Territorial act. 
 I consider that we have repudiated that act. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. In regard to that matter, I 
 think it is clear that the Territory has the 
 right to pay us if it chooses. It did appro- 
 
 priate money to pay the expenses of this 
 Convention. If there is anything in it which 
 contravenes the Enabling Act, it is of no 
 force. But I am decidedly in favor of getting 
 a copy of that act, to see if an appropriation 
 has been made to pay us. I understand 
 there has been. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Secretary informs 
 the Chair that the re^lution offered by the 
 gentleman from Hennepin (Mr. Secombe), 
 relative to the appointment of a special com- 
 mittee, to procure a certified copy of the 
 the Territorial act, is upon the table. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I move that it be taken 
 from the table and considered at this time. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The resolution was then read as follows : 
 
 "Mesolved, That a special committee of three 
 be appointed to procure from the Secretary of this 
 Territory a certified copy of an act passed at an 
 extra session of the Legislative Assembly, entitled 
 an ' Act to provide for the payment of the expen- 
 ses of the Convention to form a Constitution and 
 State Government for the State of Minnesota, in 
 accordance with an Act of Congress, approved 
 March third, 1857.'" 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. Before the vote is taken 
 upon the passage of that resolution, I would 
 like to inquire of the gentleman who offered 
 the resolution, what authority the Legislature 
 of the Territory had to pass any act in 
 reference to the government, or the expenses 
 of this Convention ? 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I think the gentleman 
 can be [answered very easily. As a general 
 rule, it is not well for any people to pay them- 
 selves out of the public crib, and it was 
 thought best that the Legislature should make 
 an appropriation to pay the expenses of this 
 Convention, if Congress should not. 
 
 The resolution was adopted. 
 
 The PRESIDENT thereupon appointed as 
 such committee, Messrs. Seco.mbe, Davis and 
 McKuNE. 
 
 Mr. NORTH moved at three o'clock, that 
 the Convention adjourn. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Is there no business we 
 can do this afternoon. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. If there is,! wiU withdraw 
 the motion. 
 
 Mr. BILIilNGS. There is the report of the 
 committee upon the State Seal and Coat of 
 Arms lying on the table ready to be acted on. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wedxesdat, August. 12. 
 
 451 
 
 Mr. "WILSON. If there is any business 
 we can do, I want to go on with it ; if not, I 
 am anxious to adjourn. I hope our printer 
 will get our engrossed reports returned from 
 the printer as fast as possible. Can the 
 Clerk inform us how many committees have 
 yet to report ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair is informed 
 that all the committees have reported, except 
 the committee upon Miscellaneous Provisions, 
 and the committee on the Schedule. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I would further inquire 
 whether all the reports have been so fer con- 
 sidered as to be referred to the committee on 
 Engrossment ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. Jill except those which 
 have not been printed, and the report of the 
 committee upon the Seal and Coat of Arms. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I would inquire if we have 
 not a committee upon Printing, who should 
 see to getting those reports from the printer. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. We have such a com- 
 mittee, and they have stood long enough. 
 (Laughter) I move that a committee of 
 three be appointed to wait upon the gentle- 
 men who have charge of our printing, and 
 report as soon as possible what the probabihty 
 is of our being furnished with the reports 
 now in their hands. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 SPECIAL ACT OF THE LEGISLATURE. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE, from the special committee 
 appointed to procure a copy of the act of the 
 special session of the Legislature, to provide 
 for the payment of the expenses of the Con- 
 stitutional Convention, reported that the 
 committee had attended to that duty, and 
 presented the following certified copy of that 
 act. 
 
 " AN ACT to provide for the payment of the Ex- 
 penses of the Convention to form a Constitution 
 tor the State of Minnesota, in accordance with 
 an Act of Congress, approved March 3, 1857. 
 
 " JSe it enacted by the Legislative Assembly of the 
 
 Territory of Minnesota : 
 
 " Sec. 1. That on the first Monday of June 
 next, the qualified electors of the Territory of 
 Minnesota, shall assemble at their respective pla- 
 ces appointed by law for the opening of the polls, 
 and shall there proceed to elect by ballot certain 
 delegates for a Convention to form a Constitution 
 and State Government for this Territory. 
 
 " Sec. 2. Every Council District in this Terri- 
 tory shall elect two delegates for every councillor 
 
 it may be entitled to in the Legislative Council, 
 and every Representative District shall elect two 
 delegates for every member they may be entitled 
 to in the House of Representatives: JFravided, 
 That whenever any district has been subdivided 
 in order to elect their reprtsentative in the Legis- 
 lative Assembly, the same subdivision shall govern 
 in the election of delegates to the Constitutional 
 Convention. 
 
 " Sec. 3. That there shall be appropriated out 
 of any money in the Territorial Treasury, unap- 
 propriated, for mileage and per diem of members, 
 oflBcers, and Secretaries, for printing, and for sta- 
 tionery, the sum of thirty thousand dollars. 
 
 " Sec. 4. That the members, officers, and Sec- 
 retaries of said Convention, shall be entitled to 
 the same mileage and per diem, as the members of 
 the Legislative Assembly: Provided, That fhe 
 presiding oflBcer shall be entitled to three dollars 
 per day extra. 
 
 "Sec. 5. The compensation herein provided 
 for the members, oflScers, and Secretaries, shall be 
 certified by the presiding ofiicer, and attested, by 
 the Secretary, as well as all claims for stationery, 
 printing, and all other incidental expenses ; which 
 said certificates, when so certified, shall be suffi- 
 cient evidence to the Territorial Treasurer of each 
 persons claim. • 
 
 "Sec. 6. The qualifications of delegates to the 
 Constitutional Convention shall be the same as the 
 qualifications for members of the House of Repre- 
 sentatives of the Legislative Assembly. 
 
 " Sec. 7. This Act shall be in force from and 
 after its passage. 
 
 "J. W. FURBER, 
 "Speaker House of Rep's. 
 "JoHX B. Brisbix, 
 " President Council. 
 
 "Approved May 22, 1857. 
 
 " S. MEDARY, Governor. 
 " I certify that the foregoing is a correct copy of 
 the ' Act, to provide for the payment of the ex- 
 ' penses of the Convention to form a Constitution 
 for the State of Minnesota in accordance with an 
 Act of Congress approved March 3, 1857.' 
 "In testimony whereof, I have hereunto set my 
 hand and affixed the Great i^eal of the 
 [seal.] Territory of Minnesota, this 14th day 
 of July, A. D. 1857. 
 
 " Chas. L. Chase, Sec'y of M. T." 
 On motion of Mr. BATES, the report was 
 accepted and the committee discharged. 
 On motion of Mr. MORGAN— 
 
 " Ordered, That the report be laid upon the table 
 and printed." 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. NORTH, (at 
 three o'clock and fifteen minutes,) the Con- 
 vention adjourned. 
 
452 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thuesday, August 13. 
 
 TWENTY-EIGHTH DAY. 
 
 Thubsday, August 13th, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock A, M. 
 In the absence of the President, on motion 
 of Mr. KING, Mr. McClube was appointed 
 President pro tempore. 
 Prayer by the Rev. Mr. Mattocks. 
 The journal of yesterday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 pebsonal explanation. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. Pbesident : I rise to 
 a question of privilege. I have been absent, 
 and coming again to my desk, I find myself 
 reported as follows, in the Daily Minnesotian 
 of Saturday: 
 
 " Mr. Hatden proposed to amend the substitute, 
 by striking out from the first section, in the first 
 line, the words, ' white male inhabitant,' and in- 
 serting these words : ' citizen of the United States.' 
 
 " The President considered this amendment out 
 of order, as embracing the same matter which the 
 Convention rejected yesterday, but withheld the 
 decision." 
 
 Thus putting me before the public as pre- 
 senting that motion out of order, and speaking 
 to it out of order. I wish to correct this — 
 believing it to be my privilege and duty. 
 
 In the first place I refer to our Rules. In 
 Rule 29, I read : " but a motion to strike out 
 " being lost, shall neither preclude amend- 
 " ment, nor a motion to strike out and insert." 
 It is true, it is also said here, that Jefferson's 
 Manual shall be our guide where the Rules 
 do not apply. But if that Rule is not plain 
 and applicable to the case, I confess I do not 
 understand language. 
 
 In the second place, my motion to amend, 
 was to amend the substitute which was not 
 adopted. If it had been the same amend- 
 ment it would have been in order. To pre- 
 sent me in that light before the public I feel 
 is wrong; and if that is the manner of the 
 decision, or if it was so intended by the Chair, 
 I consider that it is an outrage upon my 
 rights; that it is contrary to parliamentary 
 usage; and I wish to have this matter set 
 right. 1 am aware that the editors of this 
 paper have the right to do as they please, in 
 regard to publishing these matters — and in 
 regard to withholding the remarks on one 
 side, and publishing them on the other side ; 
 yet that also looks to me as a matter of injus- 
 tice. 
 
 BOUNDAEY LINE. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I hold in my hand, 
 Mr. Pbesident, a communication which is in 
 the nature of a memorial or petition, which I 
 received this morning, in reference to the 
 boundary question ; and also the proceedings 
 of a public meeting held at St. Peter on the 
 third instant ; which I desire may be read. 
 
 The letter was then read as follows : 
 
 " St. Peter, Aug. 8th, 1857. 
 " To tlie Members of the Constitutional Convention 
 
 at St. Paul: 
 
 " Gentlemen, — In accordance with the instruc- 
 tions of a public meeting of the Republicans of this 
 vicinity, on the evening of the third instant, at 
 which H. A. Swift, Esq., and myself were ap- 
 pointed a committee for the purpose, (and Mr. 
 Swift being absent, and I unable to attend in per- 
 son,) I herewith transmit to you the resolutions 
 and proceedings of said meeting, as indicative of 
 the desire of the citizens in this region upon a 
 question in which, at this time, the deepest interest 
 is felt by all. I refer to the Boundary Line. 
 
 "And, gentlemen, as one feeling a deep interest 
 in your proceedings and success, I will, I trust, be 
 pardoned for accompanying these resolutions with 
 a few suggestions. 
 
 "1st. As all are aware, we have a desperate foe 
 to contend with. No means will be left untried for 
 our defeat. Hence that party which shows the 
 most fairness, who are willing to give the people a 
 full and fair opportunity to express their wishes, 
 will stand the best before them. 
 
 " 2d. As a body, the Republicans are decidedly 
 in favor of an Fast and West Line — many prefer- 
 ing that we remain out of the Union rather than 
 go in with a difl'erent boundary. 
 
 "3d. The Republican party is identified with 
 the movement in favor of that line — nearly all hav- 
 ing voted for and sustained the memorial to Con- 
 gress passed last winter. We were told by our 
 leaders that it was vital to our interests as a party, 
 and as a State, that we should have that line. 
 
 "4th. We supported them in that position, and 
 many of them were re-elected as delegates to this 
 Convention almost solely upon that ground. We 
 went into our District Convention with that as an* 
 issue, and no man was permitted to be nominated 
 who was not known to be sound upon that question. 
 
 " 5th. Having thus identified ourselves with 
 this movement, and that too with the advice and 
 under the control of our leadmg men, many of 
 whom arc now in the Convention ; how can we 
 abandon it, with honor, with consistency, or with 
 the expectation that the people will support us 
 in it? 
 
 " 6th. What reason can you give for denying 
 to the people the right of deciding this question 
 for themsdveif The fact that the bogus body will 
 adopt the North and South line, and that a Demo- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tutbsdat, Acgcst 13. 
 
 453 
 
 cratic Congress maj favor their position in prefer- 
 ence to ours, is no reason. The people have aright 
 to decide this question first; and what men may 
 think about our chances for admission, will not jus- 
 tify you in refusing them this right. Because a 
 Democratic Congress wwy do wrong, is no reason 
 why you sJioxdd do wrong. 
 
 "7th. There is a strong feeling in the minds of 
 the people, that a prominent reason why many of 
 the members oppose this line, and are so anxious 
 for inmiediate admission, is because they are looh- 
 ing ahead to places of trust and profit ; and that to 
 be kept out another year, would be to lessen and 
 remove the chances of their success. Whether 
 just or unjust, such suspicions exist ; and if the 
 Convention persist in enforcing upon them a line 
 they do not want ; and that, too, without giving 
 them a chance to express their wishes in the mat- 
 ter, that suspicion tcill be increased to such an ex- 
 tent as to destroy confidence in those members, 
 and to lead the people to believe that those men 
 seek their own advancement in preference to the good 
 of the State or the party. Such a result would in- 
 evitably lead to distrust, dissatisfaction, and de- 
 feat. Such a result would throw our young State 
 ijto the hands of our enemies, audit would require 
 years of toil to recover it. 
 
 "8th. It is more Republican, more truly Dem- 
 ocratic — is more fair and honorable, to submit this 
 question to a vote of the people. They have a 
 right to demand it, and they exact it. If a major- 
 ity decide in favor of, or against the line, that does 
 not prevent the adoption of the Constitution. 
 With that question left to the people, we can 
 heartily support your action — without that, we can- 
 not. Indeed, there are many here who are pledged 
 to oppose any Constitution — no matter how good 
 — which does not give them an East and West 
 line, or submit it to a vote of the people. The 
 Democrats in this region are also pledged to do 
 the same. 
 
 " Hoping, and trusting, that the Convention will 
 take truly Republican grounds upon this question, 
 by submitting it to a vote of the people, regard- 
 less of what our opponents may do, 
 "I remain, 
 
 " Very respectfully yours, 
 " W. C. DODGE, 
 
 " Ch'n Committee." 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I hope the genUeman 
 who introduced that letter will let it lie upon 
 the table, rather than to have it go upon our 
 journals. I am always ready to hear peti- 
 tions and letters, but I do not want a letter, 
 containing such a system of pettifogging as 
 that does, to go upon the journal. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. For the information 
 of the Convention I would state that the ad- 
 dress just read was an address drafted by a 
 committee appointed by a meeting held at St 
 
 Peter on the third of this month, and it is the 
 address of that conunittee which was appoint- 
 ed to present in person to this Convention, 
 such remarks as they thought prudent and 
 proper. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I would inqmre if what 
 has been read was intended as an address to 
 this Conventioh? 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Yes, sir. ^ 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I have no doubt that it was 
 intended as a respectful address to this Con- 
 vention, and I hope we shall hear the whole 
 matter through. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I would ask for thfe 
 reading of the proceedings of the meeting. 
 
 The proceedings were read and are as fol- 
 lows — 
 
 PCTBUC MEETING AT ST. PETER. 
 
 "At a mass meeting of the Republicans of the 
 county, called for Monday evening, August the 
 3d, the meeting was called to order, and William 
 L. Couplin was elected Chairman, and E. E. Pauld- 
 ing Secretary of the meeting. Mr. Horace Austin 
 was called upon to state the objects of the meeting. 
 On motion of Mr. Austin, a committee of three 
 were nominated to draft resolutions, consisting of 
 Messrs. Dodge, Hanscome and Pettijohn. 
 
 Dr. Ewing was called out, and in his remarks 
 recommending the establishment of an East and 
 West division line, was enthusiastically supported 
 by the prevailing sentiment of the evening. 
 
 Mr. E. E. Paulding was called for and addressed 
 the meeting in a few words, urging upon Demo- 
 crats, as well as Republicans, their duty, as patri- 
 otic citizens, to support the East and West line, 
 and asking them to accept of that, and none other. 
 
 Mr. Ames, in a short and telling speech, was 
 anxious for the success of Republican principles, 
 and of the establishment of the East and West di- 
 vision hue. ^ 
 
 The report of the committee on Resolutions was 
 then read, and the following unanimously adopt- 
 ed:— 
 
 " Whxrras, The citizens of the Territory of Min- 
 nesota, 'by an Enabling Act of Congress,' are 
 endeavoring to form a Constitution by which thev 
 may be admitted into the Federal Union as a .*^tate, 
 with equal rights and privileges with the other sister 
 members of the Contederacy ; and Whereas, un- 
 der the call for framing a Con.otitution and defining 
 our boundaries as a future state, Delegates have 
 been chosen throughout the Territory, and are now 
 sitting at St. Paul for the ostensible purpose of 
 framing a Constitution which shall be acceptable 
 to the majority of the people of the Territory; 
 and Whereas, The present crisis in our political 
 afiairs demands energetic and philanthropic action 
 on the part of the people, in order to thwart the 
 despotic machinations of the Democratic party, 
 which, in our opinion, judging from former pre- 
 cedents, is endeavoring to impose"upon us a Con- 
 stitution embracing doctrines and sentiments re- 
 pugnant and antagonistical to the fundamental and 
 well established principles of the Federal Consti- 
 
454 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thuesday, August 13. 
 
 tution, and inimical and dangerous to our b»st in- 
 terests and welfare as a State ; and Whereas, We 
 believe that the true policy and general interests 
 of the people of the Territory demand the estab- 
 lishment of an East and West boundary line, there- 
 fore, as an expression of the feelings of this Re- 
 publican body. 
 
 " Besolved, That we recognize the Republican 
 organization at St. Paul as the legal branch of the 
 Constitutional Convention, and endorse their ac- 
 tion, thus far in the premises, as in accordance 
 with the principles and tepents of the Republican 
 party. 
 
 " Besolved, That we deem it for the interests of 
 this Territory that it be divided by an East and 
 West boundary line, and our Delegates in the Con- 
 stitutional Convention are hereby requested and 
 instructed to use all fair and honorable means to 
 embody in the Constitution such a boundary line, 
 or submit the same to a vote of the people as a 
 separate question. 
 
 ^'Besolved, That the charge of our opponents that 
 the Republican party is Know Nothing in its char- 
 acter or affinities, is a false charge — and that we are 
 as a party, in favor of the largest liberty and equal 
 rights to all men, no matter where born, or of 
 whatsoever nationality. 
 
 " Besolved, That the fundamental aim of the 
 Republican party is the assertion of the true 
 principles and just interpetation of the federal 
 constitution, efiectual opposition to the modern 
 heresy that freedom is no better.than slavery, the 
 maintainance of the rights, dignity and sovereign- 
 ty of the States, and the defence of the personal 
 liberty of the citizen, the rights and interests of 
 free labor, ard the vindication of the doctrines of 
 the Declaration of Independence and the essential 
 rights of man. 
 
 "Besolved, That what is called the Democratic 
 party of to-day, in the free States, could not sur- 
 vive a single battle in its present position, but for 
 the lure and reward of feder?il patronage. That 
 this patronage being thus the great corrupter of 
 our politics, and the principal agent in retaining 
 vitality in the ranks of the pro-slavery party in the 
 free States, is an evil of vast and growing magni- 
 tude, which demands abridgement by bringing, 
 as far as practicable, all federal offices within the 
 reach of the people by popular election. 
 
 Mr. W. C. Dodge then took the floor and in a 
 forcible, argumentative, and telling speech fully met 
 and refuted all the misrepresentations made at the 
 meeting of the Democracy last week, and in his 
 review of the two political parties in this Territory 
 for the last few months, threw a light upon the 
 subject, that must have been particularly disagree- 
 able to the sore opposition. He stigmatized the 
 assertion made by the opposition leaders, that the 
 Kepublicans were a party with ?^now Nothing pro- 
 clivities as false, and challenged any person then 
 present or elsewhere, to produce a single senti- 
 ment in any Republican platform that ever was 
 formed, whereby the charge of Know Nothingisra 
 could attach to them as a party. Mr. Dodge ably 
 treated the other issue of the campaign, and^ re- 
 tired amid great applause. 
 
 Mr. Ilanscome was then recalled and delighted 
 the audience with a stirring appeal to them as 
 Republicans, closing with an eloquent and earnest 
 defense of them as a party, and of their position 
 in the present crisis. 
 
 A lively discussion than sprang up between some 
 of the speakers and one or two of the opposition, 
 
 who endeavored to crawl out of a very small hole 
 into which they had crept the other night, but who 
 after a considerable squirming and wriggling, were 
 obliged to stay where their folly had placed them. 
 
 A motion was then made and carried, that a 
 committee of two be appointed to present the res- 
 olutions passed to the Convention at St. Paul and 
 to have them published in the Free Press and other 
 Republican papers of the Territory. 
 
 W. L. COUPLIN, Chairman. 
 
 E. E. Paulding, Secretary." 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move that the 
 address, and resolutions accompanying the 
 same, be laid upon the table, to be taken up 
 and considered this afternoon at two o'clock, 
 in connexion with the resolution offered by 
 the gentleman from Nicollet (Mr. Davis). 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 MILEAGE OF MEMBEKS. 
 
 On motion of Mr. MANTOR, the following 
 resolution was taken from the table for 
 consideration : 
 
 "Besolved, That the certificates of mileage, 
 signed by the President and attested by the Secre- 
 tary, be issued to each member of this Constitu- 
 tional Convention, and that the Territorial Treas- 
 urer be authorized to pay the same out of the fund 
 appropriated by law for defraying the expenses of 
 this Convention ; and on production of said cer- 
 tificates by the said Treasurer, the amount of the 
 same shall be allowed to him as a credit against 
 any moneys in his hands, appropriated as aforesaid, 
 on the final adjustment of his accounts \n relation 
 to the said fund." 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move that the resolu- 
 tion be laid upon the table. 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 MILITIA. 
 
 On motion of Mr. CLEGHORN, the Con- 
 vention resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole, (Mr. Cleghokn in the Chair) upon 
 report number twenty, on the Militia. (For 
 report, see proceedings of August tenth.) 
 
 The report was read by sections for amend- 
 ment and discussion. 
 
 " Sec. 1. The Militia of this State shall be com- 
 posed of all able bodied white male citizens, be- 
 tween the ages of eighteen and forty-five years' 
 except such as are or may be exempt by the laws 
 of the United States, or of this State, and they 
 shall be enrolled in such manner as may be pro- 
 vided by law." 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I move to strike out the 
 word " white " in the second line. I wish, to 
 strike out that word so as to bring in the 
 Doctor's (Mr. Foster) half-breeds, whose 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thcbsday, August 1?. 
 
 455 
 
 cause he has been advocating so strenuously, 
 in order to give them a chance to fight. I am 
 told that these half-breed Pembina men make 
 the best cavalry in the world; that they 
 fire ■with astonishing rapidity on horseback, 
 and make first rate soldiers in an emergency. 
 They would do to chase Ink-pa-du-ta's band. 
 And if the negroes and mulattoes are such 
 excellent soldiers as General Jackson said 
 they were at the battle of New Orleans, I 
 want them to have a chance too. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I object to that amend- 
 ment, for the reason that the word " white " 
 occurs in the Constitution in another place 
 where it deprives negroes of the right of 
 the right of suffrage. Now I object to com- 
 pelling a class of men to do mihtary duty, 
 who are not allowed the right to vote. It 
 would be inflicting a hardship which they 
 ought not to be compelled to endure. They 
 will be compelled to do military duty under 
 such an amendment, and to pay a fine, if the 
 Legislature sees fit to impose a fine for the 
 non-performance of such services. If the 
 word " white " is to be retained in the article 
 on the Elective Franchise, it ought to be re- 
 tained here. If gentlemen desire to include 
 the half-breed, so as to subject them to do 
 military duty, it can be done by an additional 
 clause, but I object to negroes bepg compelled 
 to do military duty, unless they have the right 
 to vote. * 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Would the gentleman give 
 them the right to volunteer ? 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. This first section would 
 probably not prevent them from volunteering, 
 but I doubt the propriety of allowing evefl 
 that. 
 
 Mr . FO STER. I am in favor of the amend- 
 ment, not because the half-breeds are partic- 
 ularly able bodied men, capable of aiding in 
 the defence of the country, but because I 
 believe we should allow all able-bodied per- 
 sons to participate in the defence of the 
 country. Because public opinion, is not 
 ready to accord to a particular class of popu- 
 lation all their rights, I would not deprive 
 them of such rights as pubhc opinion is ready 
 to accord to them. I would not go so far as 
 to insist that, because they cannot have one 
 particular right, they shall not have another. 
 I consider that while fighting for our country 
 is a duty, it is also a privilege. Some may 
 
 think otherwise, and esteem it only a burthen. 
 I do not view it in that light. I think we 
 should so arrange this matter that that class 
 will not be excluded, if the State sees fit to 
 call upon them. I wish to have gentlemen 
 all understand that I have taken the broad 
 position that all the rights of men should be 
 awarded to them, and it is only a question of 
 policy and expediency whether we shall 
 attempt, at this time, to encounter the public 
 prejudice which exists. I go for doing all the 
 justice, and all the good I can, and as fast as 
 I can. For that reason, I am in favor of 
 striking out the word " white " fix>m this 
 article. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I think that the second 
 section, giving certain powers to the Legisla- 
 ture in regard to volunteer troops, provides 
 suflBciently for that class of persons, and it 
 is unnecessary to strike out the word " white " 
 because the second section permits them to join 
 in defence of their country, by volunteering. 
 Mr. NORTH. I am decidedly opposed to 
 conferring privileges upon a large class of 
 citizens, and then relieving them of their 
 burdens. Gentlemen say you deprive them 
 of the privilege of voting, and then relieve 
 them from military djity. But there are two 
 sides t3 the question. Here are a large class 
 which that section reUeves from the burden 
 of doing military duty, for instance, the half- 
 breeds. I hold that it is no worse for them 
 to do military duty than it is for the whites. 
 I insist upon it, if there is any fighting to be 
 done, they shall have their share of it. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. This word " white " here 
 places me in an awkward position. Here 
 comes before the Convention a report with 
 my name attached, containing the word 
 "white" while it is well known that I am in 
 favor of striking out that word from the 
 article on the Elective Franchise also. Now, 
 I withheld this report for some days to see 
 whether the word •' Yrhite " would be stricken 
 out of that article. Seeing that it was the 
 determination of this body to insert that 
 word in that article, I came to the conclu- 
 sion that it would be no more than right; 
 that if a certain class of persons wanted all 
 the glory of voting, they should have all the 
 glory of fighting too. For that reason I con- 
 sented that the word "white" should be 
 inserted in this report. 
 
456 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thuesday, August 13. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. Because men have placed 
 themselves in a position in which they will 
 wish in the future they had not placed them- 
 selves, I am opposed to allowing them to avoid 
 the inconveniences of that position. The fact 
 that we have, in another part of the^Constitu- 
 tion, used the word " white," (very inappro- 
 priately, as I conceive) is no argument why 
 we should use it in this article of the Consti- 
 tution, when we can very appropriately and 
 consistently withhold it. I think it is in this 
 connection very offensive, and I shall sustain 
 the motion to strike it out. I hope the amend- 
 ment will prevail, and I hope the good sense 
 of the Convention — and I say it with aU can- 
 dor, and with a due regard to the gentleman 
 who voted to retain it in the article upon the 
 elective franchise — will manifest itself by sus- 
 taining the amendment. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I would like to know 
 whether there is another case on record, ex- 
 cept those read by the gentleman from Rice 
 county (Mr. North) the other day, where 
 negroes have fought, or wished to fight. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. There is an abundance of 
 cases, other than those, but I had not time to 
 refer to them. 
 
 The question was taken on the amendment 
 and it was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I move the following 
 substitute for the whole report : 
 
 " Sec. — . The citizens of this State shall be 
 armed, organized and disciplined for its defence, 
 when, and in such manner as may be directed by 
 law. Those who conscientiously scruple to bear 
 arms, shall not be compelled to do so, but shall 
 pay an equivalent for personal service." 
 
 In regard to this subject, I think it is gene- 
 rally the best course to leave it to the Legisla- 
 ture, and to leave it as free as possible, so 
 that the Legislature may prescribe such rules 
 and regulations as they think best. Now I 
 do not suppose that the regular [militia sys- 
 tem will be adopted in the State of Minnesota. 
 It has proved a nuisance wherever it has been 
 adopted. The Legislature is the proper body 
 to devise a militia system such as we want, 
 and my substitute gives them the power to 
 do so, and it gives them the power to allow 
 negroes, or any other class, to serve in mili- 
 tary c jmpanics, if they think proper to do so. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I hope the substitute 
 will not be adopted, and there are several 
 
 reasons why I hope so. If this shall be left 
 to the Legislature, it will be liable to abuse, 
 from the fact that, as is n-ell known, that 
 there is generally but little interest in this 
 matter in the community. If there should 
 happen to be in the Legislature some half 
 dozen men ambitious of military titles and 
 honors, they could control the whole thing, 
 because there would be but little attention 
 paid to it by others. They can get such an 
 organization as they desire, and have such 
 oflBcers appointed as they please. That very 
 thing has in some States, lead to considerable 
 difficulty. This report provides not for the 
 old militia system, but it provides that the 
 Legislature shall provide by law for the 
 organization, equipment and discipline of such 
 number of volunteer troops as they shall 
 deem necessary for the protection of the State 
 and the preservation of order. 
 
 Then again, I do not like the last clause 
 of the substitute. It provides that persons 
 having conscientious scruples shall not be 
 compelled to bear arms at any time — not 
 only in time of peace but at any other time. 
 Now under that provision, any person who 
 might say that he had conscientious scruples 
 against bearing arms, could not be compelled 
 to bear arms at any time, and if a man is a 
 hypocrite he can get rid of doing military 
 duty. I think the report is far preferable to 
 the substitute. ■ 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. A word will answer 
 the last objection urged, by the gentleman 
 from Filmore county. There are men — the 
 Friends and others — who have conscientious 
 scruples against bearing arms. If you make 
 any provision in regard to this matter, you 
 must make ^me such provision as that. I 
 think it has been adopted in many States 
 where there are a great many Quakers, and 
 it has been adopted almost precisely in that 
 language, and for them expressly. It is wrong 
 to compel them to bear arms. Such a pro- 
 vision may be liable to be abused, and men 
 may seek refuge under it improperly, to avoid 
 bearing arms in time of war. But it is of lit- 
 tle use to have such men in the army. The 
 volunteer system is the best that can be de- 
 vised for this Territory. A compulsory sys- 
 tem can never be adopted efficiently. The 
 defence of the country is in the able bodied 
 men of the country,^who feel an interest in 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thtbsday, Acgust 13. 
 
 457 
 
 their homes and firesides. It has been de- 
 monstrated that volunteers, as a general thing, 
 defend themselves well, upon their own soil 
 at least — and that is what we want an army 
 for. They will defend themselves, and their 
 country against any body of mere hireling sol- 
 diers, and I never will, by my vote, give even 
 an intimation that this country does not at aU 
 times possess a sufficient number of men who 
 will volunteer to defend it. 
 
 True, as the gentleman says, a man might, 
 for the time being, say that he was a Quaker, 
 to avoid bearing arms, but would it not be a 
 blessing to keep such a man out of the army ? 
 We do not want such men in the army ? 
 
 As to the other objection, I have but httle 
 to say. My substitute leaves it wholly with 
 the Legislature. And by the way we have 
 left everything almost to the Legislature, out- 
 side of general fundamental principles. We 
 have left them to provide the details of almost 
 all matters, and that is our true policy in 
 framing a Constitution. We have left the 
 school system and the banking system to the 
 Legislature, and why should we not leave the 
 militia system? 
 
 The gentleman says there may be ambi- 
 tious men in the Legislature who want mih- 
 tary titles and honors. Perhaps there are 
 some of that class among us. I do not know, 
 and if the Governor has the right to appoint, 
 he may appoint them if he pleases. But this 
 I have found out, that men ambitious for mil- 
 itary titles in times of peace, are not generally 
 the ones to go to war. Those men, so ambi- 
 tious when all is harmony, peace and sunshine, 
 are not the ones to be found in actual war. 
 I recollect a circumstance that occurred at 
 the time the second requisition for volunteers 
 was made for the Mexican war. A company 
 of cavalry of my town held a meeting on a 
 certain night, and two officers of the company 
 made very brave and patriotic speeches. The 
 next morning the information that a second 
 requisition was made, came to our town, and 
 a call was. made for assistance there. The 
 cavalry company was called together, and it 
 was requested that those who would volun- 
 teer to go should advance. Two advanced 
 only, and all the officers stayed behind. 
 
 Now I think we should trust the Legisla- 
 ture with this matter of establishing a sys- 
 tem from time to time as exigencies require. 
 58 
 
 Military service does not pay very well, and 
 if there is any glory in it, let those have it 
 who want it. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. There are reasons which, 
 perhaps, should cause me to feel more par- 
 ticular interest in this subject than in any 
 other before the Convention. I hope the 
 amendment which has been proposed as a 
 
 substitute will prevail. The same reasons 
 which induced us to cut down the reports 
 upon the banking system and the school sys- 
 tem, and various other reports, should lead 
 us, with even more determination, to deal 
 with this report in the same way. 
 
 It seems to me that the reasons which the 
 gentleman from Fillmore County (Mr. Col- 
 BUKX) has ui^ed against the adoption of the 
 substitute, are very unsoimd. They are based 
 upon the ground that the Legislature is 
 not competent to legislate. If that be true, 
 it ought to have operated with us, in our ac- 
 tion upon many other questions which have 
 been before us. It seems to me that it would 
 be a very gross act upon the part of this Con- 
 vention to say to the Legislature that they 
 shall establish a certain system, and shall not 
 establi h any other. It seems to me that it 
 would awake a strong opposition against our 
 Constitution, upon the part of a large portion 
 of our people, who have strong military in- 
 stincts, to say that they shall have a volun- 
 teer system and shall not have a militia sys- 
 tem. They believe the Legislature is com- 
 petent to determine for themselves what is 
 best in regard to this matter. As to what 
 particular system is best, is a subject upon 
 which I have not been able to form an opin- 
 ion. It is one of the most difficult subjects 
 which have been offered to this Convention, 
 and a subject which should be determined by 
 the Legislature according to circumstances. 
 In one State it might be best to have a volun- 
 teer system, while in another State a mixed 
 system would best suit their circumstances. 
 Or it might be desirable to have a mixed sys- 
 tem, according to circumstances and the state 
 of public opinion at the time. An attempt 
 upon our part to prescribe which of these 
 systems shall be adopted for all time to come 
 is very objectionable. 
 
 Besides that, a particular course pursued 
 by this Convention might implicate it with 
 the peace party. It is well known that many 
 
468 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thuskdat, August 13. 
 
 advocates of anti-slavery principles, are also 
 strong peace men. I have nothing to say 
 about the correctness or incorrectness of their 
 principles, but this Convention should avoid all 
 implication with any of those hobbies. 
 
 Now this is a matter which does not con- 
 cern us in the least. It belongs to the Legis- 
 lature exclusively, and should be provided for 
 by them accor ling to circumstances at the 
 time. I think the substitute is all we should 
 adopt. It should be left open to the Legis- 
 lature and we should not prescribe to them 
 any particular system which they should 
 adopt, or the particular class of troops that 
 they shoiild organize at any future time. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I think the opinion of the 
 gentleman from Chisago (Mr. Lowe) aside 
 from the force of this argument, entitled to 
 respect. I have uniformly objected to legis- 
 lating in the Constitution. And it seems to 
 me that this article is, in fact, a complete mili- 
 tia system. I think we ought to leave it with 
 the Legislature. 
 
 But one gentleman upon the committee 
 which made the report, (Mr. Colburn) says 
 if we leave it with the Legislature, those am- 
 bitious gentlemen who want military titles and 
 honors, will get up a comprehensive system 
 which will suit their personal wishes, and 
 give them office. It strikes me that the sys- 
 tem which is contained in this report, is a 
 pretty comprehensive one itself, and that there 
 is a pretty large corps of these officers to be 
 provided for. I do not say that ambitious 
 motives operated in getting up this system. 
 I do not say that those who got up this report 
 deserve to be Major Generals, Brigadier Gen- 
 erals, Colonels, &c., but those offices are all 
 provided for here. Nor do I say that the 
 system was got up because we expect to 
 elect a Republican Governor, and because the 
 Republicans want all these nice honorable 
 offices among themselves. I do not say that ; 
 but I do say that the argument can just as 
 well be applied to this report, as it can be to 
 the Legislature. This is a complete system, 
 so far as the offices are concerned. If it 
 were not that it is legislating in the Constitu- 
 tion, I should have no objection, to be sure, 
 to the arrangement of all these officers, oven 
 though the gentleman upon the committee 
 should desire them. I think the gentleman 
 from Fillmore (Mr. Colbubn) would look 
 
 very well in uniform, though not quite as 
 well as my friend from Dodge County (Mr. 
 Mantor) the Chairman of the committee. 
 (Laughter.) I think his appearance in military 
 dress would be rather superi»r, and would 
 look the character well. 
 
 But aside from all that matter, I think it is 
 purely a matter of legislation, and that we 
 better adopt the substitute and confine the 
 article to that alone. 
 
 Mr. BARTHOLEMEW. The gentlemen 
 of the Convention will bear with me while I 
 make a few remarks upon this subject, and 
 for the first time put myself upon the records 
 of this Convention. I signed this report not 
 because it was a perfect one, but upon the 
 principle on which Dr. Franklin acted in sign- 
 ing the Constitution of the United States, that 
 it was the best we could have under the pres- 
 ent circumstances. I am in favor of a full 
 organization of a militia system. I am not a 
 fighting man I admit, but I hold that our 
 peace and security is insured to us by being 
 always prepared for war. I would go into a 
 full organization of a militia system so that 
 we may know what our strength is, and so 
 that we may have individuals upon whom we 
 may cast the proper resposibilities in case of 
 war. Now we all know that three quarters of 
 our Territory is surrounded by savage tribes, 
 and we know not at what time we may be 
 called upon to use our anns in defence of 
 our lives. Hence we must all see the necessity 
 of having a good and sufficient military force. 
 
 In regard to the amendment which was 
 proposed to strike out the word " white" irom 
 the first section, I have but a very few words 
 to say. I anticipated it from the quarter 
 whichit comes. The word "white" was in- 
 serted in that section for the reason that I, for 
 one, was not willing to lay burdens upon in- 
 dividuals from whom we took away the rights 
 which we guaranteed to every other class of 
 persons. This Convention deemed it to be 
 policy, and to bo absolutely necessary under 
 the circumstances, to insert the word " white '» 
 in another article of our Constitution. Now 
 if we deem it improper to give to that class of 
 persons certain privileges which we extend to 
 others, we should not, in all justice, require 
 them to bear arms, and expose themselves to 
 the shots of the Indian enemy. 
 
 Another thing ; it is certain that it will bo 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thcbsday, August 13. 
 
 459 
 
 necessary for us to depend upon volunteer 
 troops for oxir defence. Now I ask gentlemen, 
 if they would be willing to join a volunteer 
 company, if they were, by so doing, compelled 
 to associate with persons of color. I doubt 
 it. I assert it, without fear of successful con- 
 tradiction, that God has implanted in the 
 bosom of every man, and for wise purposes, 
 prejudices as to certain things, and this preju- 
 dice against color, is one of them. I think to 
 strike out this word "white" and permit col- 
 ored persons to bear, arms, and to volunteer, 
 would lessen very much the probability of our 
 always getting a suflBcient military organiza- 
 tion, under certain circimjstances. 
 
 In regard to the second proposition con- 
 tained in this report, I would urge, in its de- 
 fence, the necessity of having some imperious 
 obligation upon the Legislature, to provide 
 amply for the organization of troops. I am 
 well aware that it has grown to be popular at 
 the present day, among the descendants of the 
 revolution, to cry down a full militia organiza- 
 tion. "We have only to refer to Legislatures 
 which heretofore have existed, to be convinced 
 of the fact, that when the subject of the es- 
 tablishment of a militia system has been 
 brought before them, there exists a kind of 
 holy horror at the idea, and that they are 
 disposed to pass the matter over very lightly 
 and very triflingly. Now I beUeve that it is 
 necessary, vmder the circumstances in which 
 we are placed, that the Legislature should 
 give full encouragement to the organization of 
 volunteer troops. How recent is it that om- 
 homes have been disturbed by the reports of 
 Indian incursions ? How were we prepared 
 to meet those incursions ? There was no re- 
 sponsibility resting upon any one to bring out 
 our citizens. Our citizens are not disposed to 
 leave their farms and firesides to go out 
 against the savages. There must be some 
 compulsory process to bring them out. In 
 view of the manner in which this subject has 
 been treated by the Legislature, I think it in- 
 cumbent upon us, in our Constitution, to make 
 it obligatory upon the Legislature to provide 
 ample means for organizing troops. 
 
 The third section provides that all officers 
 of the militia (staflF officers excepted) shall be 
 elected by persons subject to military duty in 
 their respective commands, in such manner as 
 shall be provided by law. 
 
 In defence of the provisions of that section 
 I would say that in many States the Legisla- 
 tures have been in the habit of electing per- 
 sons, to fill offices which conlerred any partic- 
 ular honor in their own bodies. They have 
 been careful not to allow the election of officers 
 to be made by those who were luider the di- 
 rect command of those officers, and in nine 
 cases out of ten it has proved detrimental to 
 the best interests of the military system. I 
 recollect that the Legislatiure of Ohio, a few 
 years ago, when they revised their mihtary 
 system, and made provision by law for eight 
 new divisions, elected seven of the Major 
 Generals out of theu- own body. This is all 
 wrong, as every one must see, and the third 
 section is designed to prevent that in this 
 State. 
 
 The fourth section provides that the Gov- 
 ernor shall appoint the Adjutant, Quarter Mas- 
 ter, and Gommissaiy Generals of the State 
 and Major and Brigadier Generals and Colo- 
 nels, and Colonels shall appoint their respec- 
 tive staff officers. 
 
 I believe that provision is very necessary 
 for the advancement of the militia system. 
 We are aware that frequently officers are not 
 qualified for the position they occupy. And 
 they should not hold their commissions in 
 such a manner that they cannot be displaced, 
 provided they show themselves incapable of 
 performing the duties of their positions. 
 
 I regret to see the spirit of opposition which 
 has been manifested here to the militia sys- 
 tem. The gentleman from Scott County told 
 us of an instance which came vmder his ob- 
 servation. He told it for the purpose of dis- 
 paraging the militia system. I regret to see 
 him manifest the enmity he has to the militia 
 system. From what I have seen of legisla- 
 tive action upon this subject, I have no con- 
 fidence in that body in reference to this matter. 
 They are disposed to pass the matter over as 
 of trifling importance. We should provide 
 abundantly for our o^vn safety, and it is a 
 matter which calls upon us loudly for our at- 
 tention. We are surrounded by savages and 
 we know they are easily excited and aroused. 
 We are aware, too, that our government does 
 not always deal with them upon strict princi- 
 ples of equity, and they may, and frequently 
 do have, excusable cause for rising and at- 
 tacking whites. It becomes us then to be pre- 
 
460 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES -THrssD ay, August 13. 
 
 pared at all times, and to have some means 
 ready through which our physical strength 
 can be best exerted in our defence. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. The gentleman en- 
 tirely misapprehended me, if he understood 
 me to say that I was opposed to organizing 
 and displaying our citizens for military duties. 
 But the gentleman does not want to trust the 
 Legislature. But he must trust the Legisla- 
 ture under this very report. They are re- 
 quired by it to provide laws for the organiza- 
 tion, equipment and discipline of such number 
 of volunteer troops as they shall deem neces- 
 sary. The report itself is only a delegation of 
 certain powers, and the development of only 
 a part of a system, and it is inoperative of 
 itself, as a whole plan of military organization. 
 No man that looks at the report, will say that 
 there is any military organization established 
 by it. It only provides part of a system, and 
 that part is entirely inoperative without the 
 act of the Legislature, which the gentleman 
 does not like to trust. It says the Legisla- 
 ture shall do so and so. Suppose they refuse 
 or neglect to do so, who is going to bring com- 
 pulsory process against them ? There it no 
 such power. It is left to their judgment, after 
 all, to act or not to act, because they are to 
 do so and so, as they shall deem necessary. 
 
 While my amendment leaves out the details 
 of a partial system as contained in this report, 
 it leaves the whole matter where it should be 
 left— with the Legislature. The Constitution 
 of the United States provides that the Presi- 
 dent shall be commander in chief of the army. 
 And it only bestows upon Congress the simple 
 power to raise an army. And it impliedly gives 
 Congress unlimited power over the whole army. 
 And is Congress more competent than the 
 Legislature of a State, to govern this matter? 
 We presume that Congress is as corrupt as 
 most other bodies. 
 
 We have adopted the general principle of 
 leaving matters of legislation to the Legisla- 
 ture, and of confining ourselves to general 
 principles. With the same propriety, with 
 which gentlemen urge us to establish a militia 
 system, could they call upon us to establish 
 a common school system. That we have re- 
 fused to do. And I say here that a good 
 school system is worth all the military sys- 
 tems in the world. The genius of the country 
 is to cultivate the arts of peace— and to cul- 
 
 tivate the arts of peace by the diffusion of 
 knowledge, and the education of the morals 
 of the whole country. To discourage war is 
 the desire of every good man in the land. It 
 is to be avoided wherever it can be. " In 
 " time of peace prepare for war." That is a 
 general sentiment. But prepare the people 
 for war by giving them a good education, and 
 surrounding them with home interests. Then 
 they will defend their firesides effectually, 
 though they were mustered into the militia, or 
 enrolled in a volunteer company. I take it 
 to be a fact that the greater part of our citi- 
 zens who were engaged in the war with Mex- 
 ico, never shouldered a musket in a volunteer 
 or military company in their lives prior to 
 their enrollment. The troops were made up 
 of the good, solid, and hard working men of 
 the country. When our country is attacked 
 who defends it ? The good, substantial and 
 educated citizens of the country. 
 
 M}'' substitute provides that the Legislature 
 shall provide for the organization of a military 
 system, and they will do it. And so under 
 this report they are bound to do it, or else 
 the balance of the report is entirely inopera- 
 tive. If we are going into details in this mat- 
 ter let us have a whole system and not a part 
 of one. But I prefer to leave it all to the 
 Legislature. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I do not propose to go 
 into a lengthy discussion of this matter, but 
 it is so seldom that I am complimented for my 
 good looks, that I cannot let this opportunity 
 for saying a word pass, although perhaps I , 
 ought not to be the first one to notice it from 
 the fact that the gentleman (Dr. Foster) su- 
 perceded me by reference, in still more com- 
 plimentary terms, to another gen tlemaif upon 
 the committee. 
 
 In regard to the ambitious designs of cer- 
 tain gentlemen of the Convention, I have no 
 desire to deny that there may be members of 
 the Convention ambitious even for military 
 honors. For myself, I should be hardly wil- 
 ling to deny that I am ambitious. And since 
 the gentleman's remarks I begin to grow more 
 ambitious than ever. If a gentleman is de- 
 sirous of an office, he deserves one pleasantly 
 located. Now it is well known that the office 
 of Commissary General and Adjutant Gene- 
 ral is in the same building and contigious to 
 that of the Secretary of btate. I do not say 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, Acgcst 13. 
 
 461 
 
 that any gentleman of the Convention will be 
 Secretary of State, but it is conceded that 
 there is a gentleman here who would make a 
 very good Secretary of State, and doctor up 
 the matters of that office very skillfully. That 
 is a very good office, and if I aspired to any 
 office, I would desire one as near that of the 
 Secretary of State as possible, so that I might 
 enjoy the affability and sociability of any 
 gentleman who might be elected to fill it. As 
 it is not then determined, but that I shall as- 
 pire to that location, I hope the report will be 
 adopted, so that I may have a chance. (Laugh- 
 ter). 
 
 The substitute offered by the gentleman 
 from Scott County (Mr. Galbbaith) was then 
 adopted. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I offer the following as 
 an additional section to the substitute : 
 
 "Sec. — . All officers of the Militia — staff offi- 
 cers excepted — shall be elected by persons subject 
 to military duty in their respective commands, in 
 such manner as shall be provided by la»'.'"| 
 
 I offer the section in order to meet the ob- 
 jections of some gentlemen here. It prevents 
 the Legislatm-e from electing any of those 
 officers. It is the custom in many States, for 
 the Legislature to elect Major Generals &c. I 
 consider that a bad policy, and I propose 
 that the officers shall be elected by persons 
 who are required to do military duty. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. BATES, the 
 committee rose and reported to the Conven- 
 tion the report and amendments, with a 
 recommendation that the amendments be con- 
 curred in. 
 
 The question being upon concurring in the 
 recommendation of the committee — 
 
 Mr. MORGAN said : I call for a division 
 of the question so that we may take a sepa- 
 rate vote upon the substitute offered by the 
 gentleman from Scott • county (Mr. Gal- 
 bbaith.) I call for the division because I 
 am opposed to the last amendment which was 
 adopted, offered by the gentleman from Fill- 
 more county (Mr. Colbvbs.) It seems to 
 me that there may be a difficulty about the 
 choice of officers under that section. It pro- 
 poses that all persons interested may vote. 
 Different States have adopted different organ- 
 izations. Some of them have provided that 
 all persons between the ages of eighteen and 
 
 forty-five shall be enrolled, while at the same 
 time they have special provisions for the ac- 
 tual organization of independent companies. 
 Now the question arises in choosing Major 
 Generals, &c., whether every person in the 
 division would be entitled to vote, or only 
 persons belonging to organized, standing 
 companies. I think the whole matter had 
 better be left with the Legislature. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I will simply remind 
 the gentleman that that section states that 
 they shall be elected by the respective per- 
 sons doing military duty in the manner pre- 
 scribed by law. The Legislature provides 
 who those persons shall be, and they must be 
 in their respective commands. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. In that case the Legisla- 
 ture might provide that commissioned officers, 
 and non-commissioned officers, might choose 
 Brigadier and Major Generals. % 
 
 The question was then taken severally on 
 the amendments recommended by the com- 
 mittee of the Whole, and they were respec- 
 tively concurred in. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I offer the following 
 as a substitute : 
 
 "Sec. — . The Legislature shall provide by 
 law for the organization, equipment and disci- 
 pline of the militia, and such number of volunteer 
 troops as they shall deem necessary for the pro- 
 tection of the State and the preservation of 
 order." 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I desire to inquire if sec- 
 tion thirty-five of the report upon the Legis- 
 lative Department was stricken out ? 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. It was. It covered 
 the same ground as this report. 
 
 The substitute was adopted. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN offered the following as 
 an additional section. 
 
 "Sec. — . No person havinar conscientioas 
 scruples against bearing arms, shall be compelled 
 to do military duty in time of peace, but may be 
 required to pay an equivalent for such service." 
 
 The amendment was adopted. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I believe there is a 
 misunderstanding in regard to the substitute 
 I offered. I intended it only as a substitute 
 for one section. I did not intend that it 
 should take the place of the whole report. I 
 intended it only to take the place of the sec- 
 tion which was offered by the gentleman from 
 Scott county, (Mr. Galbbaith.) 
 
462 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, August 13. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair did not so 
 understand it, and^it was adopted as a sub- 
 stitute for the whole report as it then stood. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I call for the reading of 
 the whole report as it now is. 
 
 The PRESIDENT read the report, consist- 
 ing of the substitute oifered by Mr. Stan- 
 NABD, and the additional section offered by 
 Mr. Cleghorn. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I think that gentlemen 
 of this Convention do not understand the 
 force and effect which the report is going to 
 have as it now stands. It provides for more 
 than gentlemen, I imagine, are willing to go 
 for. It goes further in warlike preparation 
 than gentlemen are aware of. I desire to 
 have a little delay to allow me to prepare an 
 amendment. (Cries of " question," " ques- 
 tion.") 
 
 The report as thus amended was ordered 
 to be engrossed for a^ third reading. 
 
 TAXATION, FINANCE &C. 
 
 On motion of Mr. KING, the Convention 
 resolved itself into a committee of the Whole, 
 (Mr. Hudson in the Chair) upon the report 
 of the committee on Finance, Taxation and 
 PubUc Debt. 
 
 [For report, see proceedings of August 
 tenth.] 
 
 The report was read by^sections for amend- 
 ment and discussion. 
 
 The first three sections _were passed with- 
 out amendment. 
 
 " Sec. 4. The credit of the State shall not be 
 granted to, or in__aid_of, any person, association or 
 corporation." 
 
 Mr. KING moved to strike out section 
 four. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I hope that motion 
 will prevail. In report No. five, section eight, 
 on Banking and Corporations other than Mu- 
 nicipal, there is this provision : 
 
 " The State shall not be a stockholder iu any 
 banking or other corporation ; nor shall the credit 
 of the State be given or loaned in aid of any per- 
 son, association or corporation." 
 
 Mr. LOWE. It seems to me that this is 
 one of those doubtful propositions, which this 
 Convention is not called upon to insert in the 
 Constitution. I know that in many cases 
 the exercise of the power which is now pro- 
 posed to be taken away from the Legislature, 
 has been exercised by them very beneficially. 
 
 I think it is a mooted question whether the 
 Legislature should or should not be permitted 
 to grant such aid, and I do not think that this 
 Convention is called upon to determine it. I 
 should not feel satisfied to say that the Legis- 
 lature shall not grant such aid. I know that 
 in the State of Massachusetts that power has 
 been exercised by the Legislature, and it has 
 resulted in the highest good. Other instan- 
 ces might be pointed out in which it has ope- 
 rated differently. I do not know why it 
 would not be likely to operate as well in this 
 State as in any other, and by saying that such 
 power shall not be exercised by the Legisla- 
 tui'e might impede the advancement of our 
 State. I do not think we ought to restrict 
 the State in the use of this power for all com- 
 ing time, though it may be that the power has 
 been abused. There is the right of endorse- 
 ment among individuals. It has been abused, 
 but who would suggest a restriction of indi- 
 vidual action on that account? If rightly 
 used it is a source of great benefit. This pro- 
 vision is one which is not commonly adopted 
 in the Constitutions of our States and I think 
 we are not called upon to adopt any extreme 
 propositions. This is certainly such a one. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the section 
 was stricken out. 
 
 "Sec. 6. The State shall never contract any 
 debts for works of internal improvements, or be a 
 party in carrying on such works ; except in such 
 cases where grants of land or other property shall 
 have been made to the State, especially dedicated 
 by the grant to particular works of internal im- 
 provements, the State may carry on such particular 
 works, and shall devote thereto the avails of such 
 grants, and may pledge or appropriate the reve- 
 nues derived from such works in aid of their 
 completion." 
 
 Mr. McKUNE moved to strike out that 
 section. 
 
 Mr. STANNADD. I hope that motion will 
 not prevail. It seettls to me that it may be 
 necessary that there should be such a provi- 
 sion in the Constitution. It may be that a 
 donation or grant of swamp lands, or other 
 lands may be made to the State to aid in the 
 construction of some public works, to which 
 it may bo necessary for the State to be a 
 party. I am not disposed, by striking out 
 this clause of the Constitution, to make it 
 obligatory upon the State to transfer their 
 interest in such grant to certain parties, in 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thitbsdat, Acqitst 13. 
 
 463 
 
 order that the object for which the grant was 
 made may be carried out, and have the hands 
 of tlie State tied entirely. It certainly can 
 do no harm if it remains here, and it may do 
 much ood. 
 
 Mr. ilcKUNE. Such a grant as the gentle- 
 man alluded to, always carries with it the 
 right to dispose of it. In that respect, then, 
 this section is entirely mmecessary. Besides 
 that, it grants doubtful powers. A State, 
 under this clause, may become a partner to 
 any public work in the State wherever a grant 
 of land has been made, or may be made. 
 Now I hope never to see the State a partner 
 in any public works or public improvements. 
 
 The motion to strike out was not agreed to. 
 
 "Sec. 7. The State shall never contract any 
 public debt, unless in time of war to repel inva- 
 sion, or suppress insurrection, except as is in this 
 Constitution provided. 
 
 "Sec. 8. The money arising from any loan made, 
 or debt or liability contracted, shall be applied to 
 the object specified in the act authorizing such 
 debt or liability, on the re-payment of such debt 
 or liability, and to no other purpose." 
 
 ilr. CLEGHORN. I move to strike out sec- 
 tions seven and eight. My reason for making 
 the motion is, that we have already embodied 
 the 'subject matter, of those sections in the 
 article on the Legislative Department. Sec- 
 tion thirty-six of that article reads as follows : 
 
 " The Legislature may [contract debts to meet 
 casual deficits or failures in the revenue, but such 
 debts, direct or contingent, singly or in the aggre- 
 gate, shall not at any time exceed five hundred 
 thousand dollars ; and the moneys arising trom 
 loans creating such debts, shall be applied to the 
 pxirposes for which they were obtained, or to pay 
 such debts : Provided, That the State may contract 
 debts to repel invasion, suppress insurrection, or 
 if hostilities are threatened, provide for the public 
 defence." 
 
 If we adopt these two sections, they will 
 conflict with the provision of a section we 
 have already adopted in another part of the 
 Constitution. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the sec- 
 tions were stricken out. 
 
 Mr. WILSON oflfered the following as an 
 additional section : 
 
 "Sec. 10. The Le^lature shall provide by 
 law for taxing the notes and bills discounted or 
 purchased, money loaned on all other property, 
 efiects or dues of every description, of all banks 
 now existing or hereafter created, and of all 
 bankers, so that all property employed in banking 
 
 shall always bear a burden of taxation equal to 
 that imposed on the property of individuals." 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. Is not that species of 
 property included under the head of personal 
 property ? 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I would say that some- 
 times it is, and sometimes it is not It could 
 be included under that head, but I do say 
 that we shall find the rule upon this subject 
 is as conflicting as can possibly be imagined. 
 And if we here believe that this kind of prop- 
 erty should bear a burden of taxation equal 
 to that of individuals — and I think no person 
 wUl dispute that — ^it is our duty to insert such 
 a clause in the Constitution, for no person 
 will say that it has been a uniform rule to tax 
 them, when there has been no constitutional 
 provision requiring it. These banking insti- 
 tutions stand upon the same footing as the 
 other monopolies I have heretofore spoken of. 
 They frequently have privileges which indi- 
 viduals have not. I want to set the question 
 of their taxation at rest here. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. As chairman of the 
 conmiittee which made this report, and as a 
 member of this Convention, I have constantly 
 felt inclined to steer as fiir firom anything 
 which would look like le^lation as possible. 
 I am not opposed, that I know o^ to having 
 property of the kind mentioned by the gen- 
 tleman firom Winona, taxed, but I am op- 
 posed to making that amendment a consti- 
 tutional provision, because I think it belongs 
 entirely to the Legislative department to regu- 
 late that matter. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I will say that my amend- 
 ment was a section taken from the Ohio 
 Constitution. I do not claim any originality 
 in that amendment. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. It seems to me that such 
 a provision would operate very unjustly. In 
 the first place it is provided that aU species of 
 property shall be taxed. AU men are taxed 
 for their banking capital. I own shares in a 
 bank. I am taxed for them. In addition to 
 that, the gentleman now would provide that 
 bills and notes shall be taxed — for instance, 
 the bills in circulation or the notes discounted. 
 I might own a bank with a capital of one 
 himdred thousand dollars, and under this 
 provision I would first be taxed for my bank- 
 ing capital; then I might be taxed for the 
 deposits persons might be pleased to make in 
 
461 
 
 MIN^^ESOTA COXVEXTION DEBATES— Thursday, ^August 13. 
 
 the bank ; I might be taxed for all the notes 
 I discounted, and for all the notes which I 
 put in circulation — and in fact be taxed four 
 or five times the same capital. 
 
 In reference to this being a provision from 
 the State of Ohio, I know that that matter 
 has been in litigation in that State for many 
 years, and there is great diflSculty constantly 
 growing out of it. Banks have always dis- 
 puted the taxes, and banks have been broken 
 open by county or state authorities for the 
 purpose of collecting taxes, and the matter is 
 not settled yet. I do not desire to see any 
 such state of affairs in Minnesota. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I can see no necessity 
 for adopting the section offered by my col- 
 league, for the reason that the first section 
 provides that the Legislature shall make laws 
 for a uniform and equal rate of assessment 
 and taxation, and shall prescribe such rules 
 as shall secure a just valuation for taxation of 
 all property. Now why select out one partic- 
 ular class of property and appropriate a whole 
 section to it, especiallj'' when we have covered 
 the whole ground by a previous section, which 
 authorizes the Legislature to pass such gen- 
 eral laws as they may see fit and proper with 
 an eye to the proper and equal taxation of all 
 kinds of property. The first section covers 
 fully and completely the ground which the 
 gentleman wishes to cover. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. The reason I would give 
 for being specific on this particular property 
 is, that notwithstanding almost every Consti- 
 tution contains a clause similar to the first sec- 
 tion to which my collegue referred, yet the prac- 
 tice, under it so far as this species of property is 
 concerned, has been exceedingly fluctuating, 
 some States taxing and some not taxing the 
 circulation of banks. Now when we find this 
 rule so fluctuating, and that the provision like 
 that contained in the first section of this re- 
 port does not answer all the ends proposed, 
 should we not provide specifically by a section 
 which cannot be misunderstood or miscon- 
 strued, that this property shall be taxed ? I 
 think no gentleman can see anything unjust in 
 this provision. I have looked at it carefully. 
 I know very little of banks particularly, but 
 I claim that such a provision is just, and with- 
 out this additional section we have no security 
 that that first section will be carried out as 
 we wish. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD moved to insert in place 
 of section eight, which had been stricken out, 
 the following: 
 
 "The Legislature may provide for levying taxes 
 for the support of common schools as may be 
 deemed expedient." 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I M-ould inquire of the 
 gentleman, if there is not such a provision as 
 that in the report of the committee upon edu- 
 cational institutions and interests, already 
 adopted. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I am not able to inform 
 the gentleman, 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I believe it is provided for in 
 that report. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. My recollection is that 
 the report as made by the committee, was 
 entirely voted down, and a substitute of 
 two sections offered by the gentleman from 
 Mower county (Mr. Lyle,) was adopted in 
 the place thereof. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I withdraw the amend- 
 ment. I was not aware that there was any 
 such section. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. As the committee have 
 voted down the amendment of the gentleman 
 from Winona, I move to amend the first section, 
 by inserting after the word "personal" in the 
 fourth line, the words "and mixed," so as to 
 make it read " as shall secure a just valua- 
 " tion of all property, both real and personal 
 «'and mixed," &c. It may cover a class of 
 property which we may fail to recognize. It 
 is well known that there is a class of property 
 that does not belong to real or personal. 
 
 The amendment was adoptad. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. I move to amend the 
 same clause, by striking out the word "both'' 
 before the words " real, personal and mixed." 
 That amendment becomes necessary from the 
 change in phraseology made by the last 
 amendment. 
 
 The amendment was adopted. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH offered the following amend- 
 ment: strike out all after the word "except- 
 ing" in the fourth line of the first section and 
 insert : 
 
 "The property of the State and Counties, both 
 real and personal, and such other property as the 
 Legislature may deem necessary for school, reli- 
 gious, charitable, literary and scientific purposes." 
 
 Mr. DICKERSON. I would enquire ifthat 
 e:xception includes homestead exemptions t 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thuksdat, August 1?. 
 
 465 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. DICKERSON. I would now inquire 
 if there is any section which provides for the 
 exemption of any household furniture from 
 taxation. If there is no such provision I 
 should think it highly important that the lat- 
 ter part of the first section should be retained 
 as it was reported by the committee. There 
 should be a certain amount of household prop- 
 erty which every one may hold free from tax- 
 ation. That is the reason why I voted against 
 the amendment. 
 
 On motion of Mr. LOWE, the committee 
 then rose, reported to the Convention the re- 
 port and amendments with a recommendation 
 that the amendments be concurred in. 
 
 The question first recurred upon concur- 
 ring in the amendment to the first section by 
 striking out all after the word " excepting," 
 and inserting "the property of the State and 
 "county both real and personal, and such 
 "other property as the Legislature may deem 
 " necessary for schools, religious, charitable, 
 "literary and scientific purposes." 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. It strikes me that there 
 is one class of institutions which it may be 
 proper to except from taxation, but which is 
 not included in that amendment, such as hos- 
 pitals and asylums. They were provided 
 for in that part of the report of the committee 
 which was stricken out by this amendment. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The amendment in- 
 cludes charitable and literary institutions. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I would enquire if the 
 amendment includes municipal property? I 
 have the impression that it does not. 
 ^ Mr. FOSTER. I would suggest how this 
 whole difficulty can be got along with. It is 
 not necessary to enumerate all these classes 
 of property which may be exempted by law. 
 Suppose we strike out all between the word 
 "only" and the word "as" so that it shall 
 read " excepting such only as may be specially 
 " exempted by law." 
 
 There is force in the objection of the gentle- 
 man from Scott county_(Mr. Dickebson,) and 
 to obviate that objection, as well as others, I 
 move to strike out the words I have men- 
 tioned. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The first question is 
 upon concurring in the amendment recom- 
 mended by the committee, and after that is 
 disposed of, the amendment will be in order. 
 59 
 
 The amendment of the committee was not 
 concurred in. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I now ofi"er my amend- 
 ment. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I think that gentlemen 
 who want to be consistent, ought to vote for 
 the amendment, and leave it to the Legisla- 
 ture to tax a few and exempt a few — leave it 
 for them to do just as they choose. For my- 
 self, I shall vote against it. I do not wish to 
 leave it to the Legislature to make any such 
 exceptions. I do not think it would be safe. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I do not think any 
 wrong will arise from that course. We have 
 already provided in the Constitution, that all 
 laws shall be of a general character. I am 
 in favor of the amendment. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 The second amendment recommended by 
 the committee was to strike out the word 
 " both" in the third line of the first section. 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 
 The third amendment, to strike out section 
 four, was concurred in. 
 
 The fourth amendment, to strike out sec- 
 tions seven and eight, was concurred in. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I move to strike out sec- 
 tion six. It is as follows : 
 
 " The State shall never contract any debts for 
 works of internal improvements, or be a party in 
 carrying on such works; except in such cases 
 when grants of land or other property shall have 
 been made to the State, especially dedicated by 
 the grant to particular works of internal improve- 
 ments, the State may carry on such particular 
 works, and shall devote thereto the avails of such 
 grants, and may pledge or appropriate the reve- 
 nues derived from such works in aid of their com - 
 pletion." 
 
 Report No. 22, on Internal Improvements, 
 conveys the same meaning and in much bet- 
 ter style than the first part of section six. 
 As to the latter part of section six, which re- 
 fers to grants of land, I maintain that where 
 land is donated, there is a natural right in the 
 Legislature of the State to dispose of it, with- 
 out any Constitutional provision. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the section 
 was stricken out. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move to amend the first 
 section by inserting the words "a general" 
 before the word " law ;" so as to require that 
 the Legislature shall provide by a general 
 law for a uniform and equal rate of taxation, &c. 
 
466 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thuksd ay, August 18. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I am opposed to that 
 amendment. It is a useless multiplication 
 of words. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. My object is to make the 
 exceptions general. I do not understand, as 
 the section now stands, that it does make the 
 exceptions general. It would authorize the 
 Legislature at every session, perhaps, to ex- 
 empt certain and particular property from 
 taxation. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I would like a little further 
 time to look over this report, and I move that 
 the Convention take a recess until half-past 
 two o'clock. It is now our usual time to ad- 
 journ, 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I hope the Convention 
 will take a recess and think this matter over. 
 As this report is now shaped, I conceive that 
 the donation made by the Enabling Act, never 
 will be made available. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move that the report 
 be laid upon the table. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I withdraw.my motion. 
 
 The motion to lay upon the table was 
 agreed to. 
 
 THB MILITIA AGAIN. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I would like the miani- 
 mous consent of the Convention to move to 
 reconsider the vote by which the report upon 
 the Militia was ordered to be engrossed for a 
 third reading. I think that the Convention 
 did not, in that report, exactly get at what 
 they intended — or at least, that the phraseol- 
 ogy employed did not effectuate their inten- 
 tion. I will read, as part of my remarks, 
 what I intend to ofiPer as a substitute for that 
 report, if the motion to reconsider prevails. 
 It is this : 
 
 << guc, — . The Legislature shall provide by law 
 for the enrollment of the militia, the establishment 
 of volunteer corps, and such other organization, 
 equipment and discipline or both, as may be 
 deemed necessary for the protection of the State, 
 and the preservation of order ; but no person hav- 
 ing conscientious scruples against bearing arms 
 shall be compelled to do military duty in time of 
 peace, but may be required to pay an equivalent 
 for such service." 
 
 That differs from the report as it now stands 
 in this ; that the report seems to provide for 
 the organization, equipment, and discipline of 
 the militia, absolutely — which, I think, was 
 
 not intended by the Convention; certainly 
 not upon my part. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I would ask if the proposed 
 amendment would not prevent the organiza- 
 tion of the militia ? 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Certainly not. It reads in 
 this way : 
 
 " The Legislature shall provide by law for the 
 enrollment of the militia, the establishment of vol- 
 unteer corps, and such other organization, equip- 
 ment and discipline, or both, as may be deemed 
 necessary for the protection of the fctate and the 
 preservation of order, &c." 
 
 I make the motion to reconsider. 
 
 The motion to reconsider prevailed. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD, I now move to recon- 
 sider the vote by which the Convention adopt- 
 ed the substitute which I ofiFered. 
 ,. The motion was agreed to. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. CLEGHORN, 
 the Convention took a recess until half-past 
 two o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention re-assembled at half-past 
 two o'clock. 
 
 The PRESIDENT stated the business be- 
 fore the Convention, when it took a recess, 
 was the consideration of the report upon the 
 militia. 
 
 BOUNDARIES OF THE STATE. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I rise to a question 
 of order. I believe the resolution offered, by 
 the gentleman from Nicollet, (Mr. Davis,) a 
 few days since, was made the special order 
 for tliis afternoon at two o'clock. I ask that 
 it be now taken up and considered. 
 
 The resolution was taken from the table 
 and read to the Convention. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELI^ I move to amend the 
 resolution by striking out all of the first 
 clause of the resolution after the word *' if' 
 in the thirteenth line, and inserting the follow- 
 ing: 
 
 "Then the same shall go to the Congress of the 
 United States with this Constitution, and if assent- 
 ed to by Congress, then the same shall be a part 
 of the said Constitution, and binding upon the 
 people of the said State of Minnesota, without any 
 further action on their part. 
 
 I wish merely to say that I am satisfied 
 that I connot succeed in obtaining language 
 any stronger than that used in this amend- 
 ment, and that without that language, I am 
 satisfied that the resolution will amount to 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Thcbsdat, Acorsr 13. 
 
 467 
 
 but little. With the hope that it will prove 
 satisfectory to the friends of the measure, I 
 oflfer it. The language is more appropriate 
 than that made use of in the resolution as 
 ofifered by the gentleman fi-om Nicollet. The 
 idea of certifying a proposition of that kind is 
 ndiculous and absurd. For that reason I 
 desire to substitute the language I have 
 chosen, and then it will be intelligible to say 
 the least of it. And inasmuch as I do not 
 propose to discuss the merits of this matter, 
 but desire to come to a direct vote I move the 
 previous question, — a thing which I have not 
 done before during this Convention. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. Is a call for the previous 
 question debatable ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. After the previous 
 question has been seconded, debate is not in 
 order. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. My question is whether 
 debate is in order upon the previous questicwi? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is not. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I hope the previous ques- 
 tion will not be sprung upon the Convention 
 in a matter of this kind, and especially after 
 it has been discxissed by its advocates for two 
 or three days. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I call for the yeas 
 and nays upon the previous question. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I move that there be a call 
 of the Convention. 
 
 A call of the Convention was ordered, and 
 the roll being called the following members 
 tailed to answer to their names — 
 
 Messrs. Ateb, Billings, Colbijbn, Fosteb, 
 Gerbish and Sheldos. 
 
 Mr. PHELPS moved that all further pro- 
 ceedings under the call be dispensed with. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 The Sergeant-at-Arms was directed to re- 
 port the absent members in their seats. 
 
 After an interval of fifteen minutes, during 
 which the Sergeant-at-Arms was looking up 
 absent members — 
 
 ilr. CLEGHORN moved to reconsider the 
 vote by which the Convention refused to dis- 
 pense with further proceedings under the call. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I would inquire if the 
 gentleman voted with the majority? 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I did not. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The motion is out of 
 order then. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I voted with the majority, 
 
 and I move to reconsider. I believe several 
 of the absent members have come in. 
 
 The motion to reconsider prevailed, and 
 then all further proceedings under the call 
 were dispoised with. 
 
 The previous question was then seconded, 
 and the main question ordered to be put. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN called for the yeas and nays 
 upon the amendment. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being put, it was decided in the neg- 
 ative, ayes 28, nays 29, as follows : 
 
 Teas — Messrs. Anderson, Billings, Bolles, But- 
 ler, Cleghom, Colbxu-n, Coggswell, Coe, Davis, 
 Dulev, Gerrish, Harding, HoUey, King, Lyle, 
 Mantor, McGann, McKune, McClure, Mills, Xorth, 
 Perkins, Peckham, Robbins, Thompson, Watson, 
 Wilson and Mr. President. 
 
 Nays — Messrs. Aldrich, Baldwin, Bates, Bar- 
 tholemew, Cederst-am, Coombs, Dickerson, Esch- 
 lie, Folsom, Galbraith, Hall, Harden, Hudson, 
 Hanson, Kemp, Lowe, Messer, Morgan, Murphj, 
 Phelps, Putnam, Russell, Stannard, Sheldon, Se- 
 combe, Smith, Vaughn, Walker and Winell. 
 
 So tiie amendment was rejected. 
 
 The question then being upon the passage 
 of the resolution — 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL called for the yeas and 
 nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being put it was decided in the 
 affirmative, yeas 30, nays 28, as follows : 
 
 T&u — Messrs. Anderson, Billings, Bolles, But- 
 ler, Cleghom, Colbum, Coggswell, Coe, Davis, 
 Duley, Gerrish, Harding, HoUey, King, Lyle, 
 Mantor, McCann, McKune, McClure, Mills, North, 
 Perkins, Peckham, Robbins, Secombe, Thompson, 
 Vaughn, Watson, WUson and Mr. President. 
 
 Nays — Messrs. Aldrich, Baldwin, Bates, Bar- 
 tholemew, Cederstam, Coombs, Dickerson, Esch- 
 lie, Foster, Folsom, Galbraith, Hall, Hayden, Han- 
 son, Hudson, Kemp, Lowe, Messer, Morgan, Mur- 
 phy, Phelps, Putnam, Russell, Stannard, Sheldon, 
 Smith, Walker and Winell. 
 
 So the resolution was Mopted. 
 
 MrUTlA SrSTEM. 
 
 The Convention then resumed the consider- 
 tion of the report of the committee on the 
 Militia, the question being on the adoption of 
 the substitute ofifered by Mr. STAJfSASD. 
 
 Mr. KING. The report was ordered to be 
 engrossed for a third reading, and although 
 the Convention reconsidered the vote by which 
 it was ordered to be engrossed, I took the 
 liberty to have it engrossed as it passed, and 
 I now ask that it may be read. 
 
468 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Feiday, August 14. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The vote has been re- 
 considered by which the Convention ordered 
 the report to be engrossed. After that vote was 
 reconsidered the gentleman from Chisago (Mr. 
 Stannard) moved to reconsider the vote by 
 which the substitute he offered was adopted. 
 That motion prevailed, and the question now 
 before the Convention is upon the adoption of 
 that substitute. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I now offer my amendment 
 in the nature of a substitute, of which I gave 
 notice when I made the motion to reconsider. 
 
 The substitute was read as follows : 
 
 "Sec. — The Legislature shall provide by law 
 for the enrollment of the militia, the establishment 
 of volunteer corps, and such other organization, 
 equipment and dicipline or both, as may be deemed 
 necessary for the protection of the State, and the 
 preservation of order ; but no person having con- 
 scientious scruples against bearing arms shall be 
 compelled to do military duty in time of peace, but 
 may be required to pay an equivalent for such ser- 
 vice." 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. Is there more than one 
 section in the report as it now stands ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. There are two. Smce 
 the passage of the resolution on the boundary 
 question, much confusion prevailed in the 
 Hall, and the President was frequently com- 
 Ued to call gentlemen to order. So much 
 conversation and excitement prevailed in the 
 Convention that it was impossible to proceed 
 with the business. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I move that this subject be 
 laid upon the table for the present. Members 
 will not attend to business. Some of them 
 have more interest in another question. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the report 
 was laid upon the table. 
 
 BOUNDARY QUESTION ACxAlN. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I now move, if it is in or- 
 der, to reconsider the vote by which the re- 
 solution, submitting the question of boundary 
 to the people, was passed. I regret to see so 
 much feeling upon the subject, upon both 
 sides. It is well known what have been the 
 views of every member of this Convention in 
 reference to the boundaries of the State. 
 Gentlemen have had frequent occasion to ex- 
 press their sentiments, both by vote and by 
 speech. As there were certain portions of 
 the State that felt a deep interest in that 
 question, I felt disposed to gratify their wishes 
 and desire to submit that question to the 
 
 people, if we could do so without injury to 
 other sections of the Territory, and I hoped, 
 if the subject was submitted as a'memorial 
 simply, it might be done without injury or 
 prejudice to any portion of the Territory. 
 But I see there is great feeling upon the op- 
 posing side, as well as upon the other side ; 
 and as this vote was taken under the opera- 
 tion of the previous question, affording gen- 
 tlemen no opportunity to express their views 
 upon the question, I think it best to recon- 
 sider it, and, therefore, I make that motion. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL called for the yeas and 
 nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being put it was decided in the af- 
 firmative — yeas 32, nays 21, as follows : 
 
 Yeas. — Messrs. Aldrich, Baldwin, Bates, Bar- 
 tholomew, Butler, Cederstam, Coombs, Dickerson, 
 Eschlie, Foster, Galbraith, Hall, Hayden, Hudson, 
 Hanson, Kemp, Lyle, Lowe, Messer, Morgan, 
 Murphy, North, Phelps, Perkins, Putnam, Peck- 
 ham, Bobbins, Russell, Sheldon, Smith, Vaughn, 
 and Walker.— -32. 
 
 JVays.' — Messrs. Anderson, Billings, Bolles, 
 Cleghorn, Colburn, Coggswell, Coe, Gerrish, 
 Harding, Holley, King, Mantor, McCann, Mc- 
 Kune, McClure, Mills, Secombe, Thompson, Wat- 
 son, Wilson, and the President. — 21. 
 
 So the motion to reconsider was carried. 
 
 The question then recurring upon the pas- 
 sage of the resolution — 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL moved that there be a 
 call of the Convention. 
 
 A call was ordered, 'and the roll being 
 called, the following members failed to answer 
 to their names : 
 
 Messrs. Ayer, Lyle, Stannard, and Wi- 
 
 NELL. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. McKUNE, (at 
 three o'clock and thirty minutes,) the Con- 
 ventioH adjourned. 
 
 TWENTY-NINTH DAY. 
 
 Friday, August 14th, 1857. 
 The Convention met at 9 o'clock, a. m. 
 The journal of yesterday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 boundaries of the state. 
 
 The PRESIDENT announced, under the 
 regular order of business, the unfinished bu- 
 siness of yesterday, being the consideration 
 of the resolution offered by Mr. Davis, sub- 
 mitting the boundary question to a vote of 
 the people. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, August 14. 
 
 469 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Before the question is 
 taken upon that resolution, I desire to say a 
 few words. I have, heretofore, refrained 
 from taking any part in the discussion of this 
 resolution, for the simple reason that I felt no 
 interest in the matter one way or the other. 
 It will be recollected, that in the early part of 
 the session, when the subject was before the 
 Convention of accepting the Enabling Act, I 
 gave my views upon that subject ; that I 
 spoke in favor of adopting the provisions of 
 the Enabling Act, and that I did, in every re- 
 spect, strenuously insist upon the Enabling 
 Act being compUed with in its minutest par- 
 ticulars. At the same time, when gentlemen 
 have questioned me with regard to the pro- 
 priety of taking a vote of the people upon the 
 question of boundaries, I have invariably 
 stated to gentlemen upon both sides of the 
 question, that I had no objections ; that I saw 
 no impropriety in allowing the people to ex- 
 press their opinions upon that subject in any 
 way in which the validity of the Enabling 
 Act would not be afifected, or the effect of the 
 Enabling Act be injured. And when the pro- 
 position was submitted to the Convention, 
 which proposed, imder an amendment, to 
 make this proposition a part of the Constitu- 
 tion, I stated to gentlemen that I covdd not 
 vote for that, and that I should not vote for 
 the proposition in any other shape than as a 
 memorial. Other gentlemen made the same 
 statement. When the vote was taken, I 
 voted as I had indicated that I should ; not 
 that I had any feeling about it, but that I 
 considered it nothing but what was perfectly 
 fair and safe. I consider it so now. I en- 
 tirely deny and disregard the arguments that 
 have been used by those opposed to the reso- 
 lution, as to the deleterious effect that would 
 be produced by the passage of the resolution. 
 At the same time, it seems to be the general 
 wish of the delegates from "the county repre- 
 sented by myself that the resolution should 
 not pass. There is a great deal of feeling 
 upon the subject ; and as I have no particular 
 feeling upon this subject, and only voted in 
 accordance with what I considered a reasona- 
 ble and fair proposition, I propose to change 
 my vote when it is taken again. And I 
 thought it not improper to make a statement 
 of the reasons which induce me to do so. 
 
 Perhaps there is another reason. I under- 
 
 stand that some gentlemen are so much 
 aggrieved with the passage of the resolution 
 that they are threatening to go off and leave 
 us, and not assist any further in the work of 
 this Convention. Being very anxious to have 
 the assistance of all the members of this Con- 
 vention, if I can do anything to retain them 
 here, I shall be glad to do it. 
 
 Mr. !McCLURE. The people of the coimty 
 which I have the honor to represent, are al- 
 most imanimously in favor of a north and 
 south line. So far as I am concerned per- 
 sonally I am decidedly opposed to it, and I 
 am also decidedly in favor of the right of pe- 
 tition. I stated when the resolution was first 
 introduced that I could not support it, mak- 
 ing it part of the Constitution, i drew up a 
 little statement which I find incorporated in 
 it, which 1 conceive to be innocent and harm- 
 less, in shape, manner and form, and in my 
 judgment it cannot be construed in any other 
 way than simply as a request that Congress 
 will do so and so. I imderstand that we 
 have accepted the conditions of Congress un- 
 conditionally, and now I am disposed to vote 
 just as I did before ; I am disposed to vote 
 for this resolution, not because I am in favor 
 of an east and west line; not because the 
 people of my county are in favor of it, but 
 because I am not willing to say that the peo- 
 ple shall not memoralize Congress upon any 
 subject whatever. 
 
 Mr. COGGS WELL. As I desire that there 
 should be a full Convention when the vote is 
 taken. I move a call of the Convention. 
 
 A call was ordered, and the roll being called, 
 Messrs. Ayer, Lyle, Walker and Wintell 
 failed to answer to their names. 
 
 The Sergeant-at-Arms was directed to re- 
 port the absentees in their seats. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I am informed that ilr. 
 Ater has been excused. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I would state that Mr. 
 Ayer did apply to the conunittee on Leave of 
 Absence, to be excused, as there was an ab- 
 solute necessity for his going home. 
 
 Mr. SHELDON. I would state that he is 
 not expected to return. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I move that aU further 
 proceeding under the call be dispensed with. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BATES, after an interval of twenty 
 minutes, moved to reconsider the vote by 
 
470 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES—Feiday, August 14. 
 
 which the Convention refused to suspend all 
 further proceedings under the call. 
 
 The motion to reconsider prevailed, and 
 then aU further proceedings under the call 
 were dispensed with. 
 
 The question recurring upon the passage 
 of the resolution. 
 
 Mr. COGGS WELL demanded the yeas and 
 nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 roll being called, it was decided in the negative, 
 yeas 26, nays 31, as follows : 
 
 Feas— Messrs. Anderson, Billings, BoUes, But- 
 ler, Cleghorn, Colburn, Coggswell, Coe,. Davis* 
 Duley, Gerrish, Harding, Hanson, Holley, King, 
 Mantor, McCann, McKune, McClure, Mills, Peck- 
 ham, Bobbins, Thompson, Watson, Wilson and 
 Mr. President.— 26. 
 
 Nays.' — Messrs. Aldrich, Baldwin, Bates, Bar- 
 tholomew, Cederstam, Coombs, Dickerson, Eschlie, 
 Foster, Folaom, Galbraith, Hall, Hayden, Hudson, 
 Kemp, Lowe, Messer, Morgan, Murphy, North, 
 Phelps, Perkins, Putnam, Russell, Stannard, Shel- 
 don, Secombe, Smith, Vaughn, Walker and Wi- 
 nell.— 31. 
 
 So the resolution was rejected. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I move to reconsider the 
 vote just taken, and also move to lay the mo- 
 tion to reconsider on the table. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Is that motion de- 
 batable ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is not. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I want to know if 
 the gentleman can compound those two mo- 
 tions, so that members of this Convention 
 cannot express their views and sentiments in 
 regard to this matter. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is in accordance 
 with the practice in Congress to move to re- 
 consider and to move, at the same time, to 
 lay the motion to reconsider upon the table. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I am aware that a mere 
 motion to lay upon the table is not debatable, 
 but a motion to reconsider, coupled with a 
 motion to lay upon the table, it seems to me 
 is debatable. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. A motion to lay upon 
 the table is not debatable, and it is not in or- 
 der to debate the main question after a mo- 
 tion is made to lay the main question on the 
 table. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would inquire if, before 
 a motion is seconded, another motion can be 
 made to lay tlie previous motion upon the 
 table? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair thinks that 
 can be done in such a case as this, and such 
 is the practice in Congress. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I rise to a point of order. 
 Has any man a right to get up and make two 
 motions at the same time, at one standing ? 
 I think he has not. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair has decided 
 the question, and if the gentlemap wishes to 
 take an appeal, it is his privilege. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. I do not understand that 
 the motion has been seconded, and therefore 
 it is not before the Convention. . 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chau- heard a 
 second. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Which motion was the 
 second to ? Was there any designation as to 
 which it was to ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The motion of the 
 gentleman from Hennepin County was sec- 
 onded. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I ask for information, 
 which motion was seconded ; or were both 
 motions seconded? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The motion to lay 
 upon the table was seconded. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. If the motion to reconsider 
 was not seconded it was no motion, and there 
 is nothing for the second motion to stand 
 upon. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair has replied 
 to the gentleman, that it is customary in legis- 
 lative bodies — in Congress certainly — for a 
 gentleman to move to reconsider a vote, and 
 at the same time to move to lay that motion 
 on the table, and if the latter motion is sec- 
 onded the motion is put by the Speaker or 
 presiding officer, and if carried a reconsidera- 
 tion does not take place. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. The Chair does not under- 
 stand my point. The practice in Congress is 
 to make a motion to reconsider, and that be- 
 ing seconded, then to move to lay that motion 
 upon the table. There was no second to tlie 
 motion to reconsider in this case. The other 
 question too, as to the right of a member to 
 make two motions at one standing, so as not 
 to allow another member to get the floor, is 
 also a question to which I think there are two 
 sides, and the Chair seems to have taken the 
 one I cannot take. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I would like to say a 
 word by way of explanation. It is well 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Feidat, August 14. 
 
 471 
 
 known that tliis question has already occupied 
 a great deal of time. I have refrained from 
 saying anything one way or the other. It is 
 a matter of importance and interest to the 
 people whom I in part represent. It is also well 
 known that every gentleman here is anxious 
 to get through with our business and go home, 
 and myself as much so as any gentleman. 
 The object of my motion was to dispose of 
 this matter, so that we could go on with some- 
 thing else, and complete, as soon as possible, 
 the work we have before us. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL demanded the yeas and 
 nays upon the motion to lay upon the table. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being taken, it was decided in the 
 affirmative, yeas thirty, nays twenty-eight, as 
 follows : 
 
 Yeas — Messrs. Aldrich, Baldwin, Bates, Bar- 
 tholomew, Cederstam, Coombs, Dickerson, Eschlie, 
 Foster, Folsom, Galbraith, Hall, Hayden, Kemp, 
 Lyle, Messer, Morgan, Murphy, North, Phelps, 
 Perkins, Putnam, Peckham, Russell, Sheldon, 
 Secombe, Smith, Walker, Winell and Watson. 
 
 Nays — Messrs, Anderson, Billings, BoUes, But- 
 ler, Cleghorn, Colburn, Coggswell, Coe, Davis, 
 Duley, Gerrish, Harding, Hudson, Hanson, Holley, 
 King, Lowe, Mantor, McCann, McKune, McClure, 
 Mills, Bobbins, Stannard, Thompson, Vaughn, 
 Wilson and Mr. President. 
 
 So the motion to reconsider was laid on 
 the table. 
 
 MILITIA. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I now move that the 
 Convention take up report number twenty, 
 upon the Militia, and proceed to its con- 
 sideration. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the report 
 was taken from the table. 
 
 The pending question was upon the amend- 
 ment in the nature of a substitute, offered by 
 Mr. FosTEB, heretofore published. 
 
 The substitute was adopted, 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move the following as 
 an additional section : 
 
 " Sec. 3. All officers of the militia, (staflF officers 
 excepted) shall be elected by persons subject to 
 military duty in their respective commands, in 
 such manner as ahall be provided by law. 
 
 I would simply say tliat this was adopted 
 in Convention yesterday, and the substitute of 
 the gentleman from Chisago (Mr. Stannakd) 
 was not intended to cut it off, though by a 
 misapprehension of his design, his substitute 
 
 was adopted for the whole report. I now 
 move to reinstate it. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I would say that the 
 gentleman from Fillmore has stated my inten- 
 tions correctly. I did not intend by my sub- 
 stitute to cut off that section. It was done 
 inadverdently. 
 
 The amendment was adopted. 
 
 The report, as amended, was then ordered 
 to be engrossed for a third reading. 
 
 taxation, finance and public debt. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I now move to take 
 from {he table and consider at this time 
 report number twenty-one upon Taxation, 
 Finance, and Public Debt. • 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I hope that some gen- 
 tleman who voted to strike out section six, 
 will move to reconsider that vote, for I see 
 that it debars the State forever from carry- 
 ing out the intentions of any grant which 
 may be made to the State for any public 
 improvements. 
 
 Section six is as follows: 
 
 "Sec. 6. The State shall never contract any 
 debts for works of internal improvements, or be a 
 party in carrying on such works; except in such 
 cases where grants of land or other property shall 
 have been made to the State, especially dedicated 
 by the grant to particular works of internal im- 
 provements, the State may carry on such particular 
 works, and shall devote thereto the avails of such 
 grants, and may pledge or appropriate the reve- 
 nues derived from such works in aid of their 
 completion." 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. At the request of the 
 gentleman, I will move to reconsider that 
 vote. 
 
 The motion to reconsider was agreed to. 
 
 The question then recurred on striking out 
 the section. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. In reference to section 
 six, I will say that I, for one, am opposed to 
 the State being a party to works of internal 
 improvements generally; and I think it is 
 proper for us to limit the Legislature in that 
 respect. As a general thing, I think it is the 
 opinion of a majority of the Convention to so 
 limit the power of the Legislature. But this 
 section merely provides for an exception to 
 that rule, in order to enable the Legislature of 
 the State to carry on such works of internal 
 improvement as are particularly public in 
 their nature. I hope members of this Con- 
 
472 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, AiraTTST 14. 
 
 vention will well consider this thing. I find 
 that there are different opinions, some being 
 in favor of leaving the question undetermined, 
 and leaving it within the power of the Legii- 
 lature to loan the credit of the State for the 
 purpose of internal improvements, while others 
 are for restricting that power. I wish a full 
 expression of the opinion of members upon 
 that subject. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I do not often have occasion 
 to differ with my colleague. I believe I gen- 
 erally coincide with him. But in this ques- 
 tion of restricting the power of the Legislature 
 in regard to loans, I feel bound to differ from 
 what I believe tj be his opinion. I do not 
 think this Convention ought to put this restric- 
 tion upon the Legislature. I know of some 
 instances in which it has been done, and in 
 which it operated mischievously. It was done 
 in New York, and it was found that the Leg- 
 islature could avoid the Constitutional provi- 
 sion without difficulty. It was tried ia Cali- 
 fornia, and it has been the source of great 
 calamity to that State. I believe that the 
 Legislature can, if they choose, avoid any 
 provision of this sort which we may put into 
 the Constitution. 
 
 I am opposed as a matter of principle to 
 attempting to restrict the Legislature. It of- 
 ten operates badly, though some times it has 
 operated well. But it is one of those powers 
 which, I think, are essential to a good govern- 
 ment. And we ought to be cautious how we cut 
 off the power of improving our State. If the 
 people exercise proper precaution in electing 
 the Legislature, this power will not be abused, 
 but if they do not there may great evil grow 
 out of it. It might be well for the Conven- 
 tion to lay down the principle that the people 
 must take care of themselves, and look well 
 to the construction of theu- Legislative body ; 
 and that they must not look to _the Legislature 
 to protect themselves from the machinations of 
 the Legislature. They must themselves exer- 
 cise a strict supervision over the Legislature. 
 When I see any departure from that course, I 
 feel confident in my own mind that evil will re- 
 sult. The people should never be lead to sup- 
 pose that Constitutional provisions will exempt 
 them from the proper discharge of their own 
 duties. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. It seems to me that the gen- 
 tle man from Chisago misunderstands the de- 
 
 sign of this section. In another report it is pro- 
 vided that the Legislature shall not create a debt. 
 This section provides for an exception, where 
 they may contract a debt. It is not restric- 
 tive in its character, but creates an exception. 
 That I apprehend was the intention of the 
 committee when they framed this article, and 
 if this is stricken out the Legislature will have 
 no authority to contract debts for carrying 
 out improvements for tvhich the means of 
 payment are already provided. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. If that is the case I shall 
 have occasion to change my vote. It has not 
 been presented in that light before. If a pro- 
 vision has already been adopted and this is an 
 ex ception to the general rule, I shall vote dif- 
 ferently from what I intended. 
 
 Mr. KING. This section says that the 
 State may have power to contract debts for 
 works of internal improvement in cases where 
 grants of land are made to the State for par- 
 ticular works of internal improvements ; while 
 section eight of report number five, on bank- 
 ing &c., says that the State shall not be a 
 stockholder in any banking or other corpora- 
 tion, "nor shall the credit of the State be 
 "given or loaned in aid of any person, associ- 
 " ation or corporation." So it seems that this 
 section applies to specific grants made for spe- 
 cific purposes, while the other provision pre- 
 vents the State from becoming a stockholder 
 in a banking or stock company, or from loan- 
 ing the credit of the State. It is my impres- 
 sion, if this clause is stricken out, that the 
 State never can have anything to do with the 
 lands given to it, and hence, we would cut 
 ourselves off from the bentfits of any grants 
 of land made to the State from any source 
 whatever. 
 
 The question was taken on the motion to 
 strike outjthe section, and it was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I move to reconsider 
 the vote by which the words " for municipal, 
 " educational, literary, scientific, religious, elee- 
 "mosynary or charitable purposes" were 
 stricken out of the first section. 
 
 The motion to reconsider was carried. 
 
 The question was then taken on striking 
 out those words, and it was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MILLS. I move to amend the first 
 section by striking out the word " eleemosy- 
 nary." The language of the section immedi- 
 ately following that word has the same mean- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, August U. 
 
 473 
 
 ing as the word itself. It is therefore merely 
 repetition and surplusage. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I should prefer rather 
 that several other words should be stricken 
 out, and that that should be retained. It is 
 a good word, an appropriate word, having 
 a definite meaning, and foimd frequently in 
 the law. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would enquire for infor- 
 mation as to the nice shade of difference be- 
 tween "eleemosynary" and "charitable," for 
 in my mind I have got to considering them 
 as about the same thing. The word is obso- 
 lete except in the law works, and if it means 
 the same thing as "charitable," and I think it 
 is so understood, I am in favor of striking it 
 out. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I hope it will be stricken 
 out. It is possible that in explaining this 
 Constitution to the people we may have a 
 great deal of trouble in explaining this word 
 to them. My friend from Fairbault (Mr. Peb- 
 Kixs) will have to explain it a good deal. 
 (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I hope my constituents 
 will have no more difficulty in understanding 
 it, than the gentleman from Fillmore county. 
 But it seems to me extremely foolish to strike 
 out a word of that kind. But I presimae if 
 there is any gentleman here whose constit- 
 uents will not be able to understand it, he 
 will vote to strike it out. Probably that is 
 why my friend across the way (Mr. Colbubx) 
 goes for striking it out. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I did not mean to inti- 
 mate that the gentleman's constituents would 
 not be able to comprehend it, for we have 
 ample proof of their good judgment and sound 
 sense in sending their representative to this 
 body. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I am decidedly in favor of 
 striking out the word, and for tlie reason that 
 I found myself in the chair yesterday, and 
 while reading this section to the committee, I 
 came across this word and could not pro- 
 nounce it, much to my mortification. (Laugh- 
 ter.) Is not that sufficient reason why I 
 should vote to strike it out? 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I conceive that that 
 word embraces much more than the word 
 charitable, and I think it is used just as it is 
 here, in contradistinction to the word charita- 
 ble. You will find it in all works upon law, 
 60 
 
 and the Constitution is the basis of all law 
 "Charitable" means one simple thing, while 
 " eleemosynary " means much more, 
 means aiding and helping, either by charitv 
 or otherwise. A thing may be a charity 
 while it is eleemosynary, and it may be elee- 
 mosynary while it is not charitable. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. The adjudications on the 
 real meaning of the word "eleemosynary" 
 have probably cost a great many thousand 
 dollars. The real meaning lias become well 
 defined now, and it is well settled that there 
 is a difference between that and the word 
 " charitable." To leave it out might be the 
 means of litigation which would cost a great 
 deal of money again. When we go into the 
 courts to adjudicate questions under this 
 clause, we know exactly what " eleemo- 
 synary " does mean, while the lines are not 
 distinctly drawn in regard to the other word. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. There is m my mind 
 a case, involving the meaning of this word, 
 in which the ablest talent of the country was 
 employed. I refer to the Girard will case, 
 and the great contest was whether that Gi- 
 rard institution was an eleemosynary, or a 
 charitable institution. Webster was one of 
 the counsel, and upon the argument of the 
 cause more law was cited than I ever read. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would respectfully sug- 
 gest that if there is a chance for so much labor, 
 and so much expense in getting at the nice 
 shade of difference in meaning between those 
 two words, perhaps there might be economy 
 in avoiding that state of things in this State, 
 by leaving the word out entirely. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I hope that will not be 
 done. I am astonished at the t\im put upon 
 this matter by the gentleman from Rice 
 county, (Mr. Nobth) because it does not hit 
 the question before us. Nobody pretends 
 that there ever was a litigation as to the dif- 
 ference of meaning between those two words, 
 but that there has been litigation as to the 
 exact meaning of the first word. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I do not think this is a mat- 
 ter of very great unportance, though I think 
 there is a difference between the two terms. I 
 consider that the former includes the latter 
 and a great deal more, and I hope it will be 
 retained. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Will some gentleman point 
 out the difference between the two words. I 
 
474 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES—Fkiday, August 14. 
 
 inquired for the information to start with, and 
 I have failed thus far to hear any definition 
 of the word which does not mean "charita- 
 ble." 
 
 Mr. MILLS. It is an institution, giving 
 charity, and the terms immediately following 
 it expresses the same idea. I consider that 
 they are one and the same thing. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I am decidedly op- 
 posed to striking out this word, for I have a 
 general recollection about a, distinction being 
 made between that word and " charitable," 
 and made, too, by a very respectable tribu- 
 nal. I do not distinctly, recollect the point 
 made in the Girard case, but I do distinctly 
 recollect the distinction made in the Dart- 
 mouth college case, and if I understand it, 
 the word "eleemosynary" as applied to insti- 
 tutions is, that it is a donation of a certain 
 amount of money or property, in the first in- 
 stance, as the foundation upon which the 
 institution is raised ; as was the case with 
 Dartmouth College. While a charitable in- 
 stitution is an institution which may receive 
 charities or bequests from time to time, and 
 whose objects may perhaps be different from 
 a mere eleemosynary institution. Now an 
 eleemosynary institution may have for its ob- 
 ject, perhaps, other and different things from 
 which a mere charitable institution would 
 have. A charitable institution would have 
 the dispensation and distribution of charity, I 
 care not what it consists in, while an eleemo- 
 synary institution may differ entirely from 
 that whose objects is charity purely. It may 
 be an institution for educational purposes, and 
 that certainly would not make it a charitable 
 jnstitution. I am perfectly satisfied in my 
 own mind that there is a clear distinction be- 
 tween the two words " charitable " and "elee- 
 mosynary," and I think if gentlemen will 
 take the the trouble to look at the argument 
 of Mr. Webster in the Dartmouth College 
 case, they will find that he applies the word 
 " eleemosynary all through in contradistinc- 
 tion to " charitable." ' 
 
 Mr. ALDRICII. I am in favor of striking 
 out the word. I want a Constitution which 
 all can understand. I do not mean to say 
 that my constituents do not understand the 
 meaning of this word ; })ut that I certainly do 
 not, and I went so far as to inquire of the 
 gentleman from Winona, whether this word 
 
 was Greek or Chippewa. (Laughter.) I am 
 afraid too, that its retention will endanger the 
 adoption of our Constitution. And my friend 
 from Fillmore, I believe, has gone so far as to 
 say he will vote against the Constitution un- 
 less it is stricken out. (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. A friend near me says he 
 has learned considerable in regard to the 
 meaning of this word. I have no doubt we 
 all have, and I hope it will be retained so 
 that when it goes before the people, and they 
 inquire what it means, we shall have an op- 
 portunity to display our knowledge. I think 
 we are competent now to become teachers. 
 
 But, seriously, it does strike me that it does 
 mean something more than the word " chari- 
 table," and that it ought to be retained. 
 
 Mr. MURPHY. I hope this big word will 
 be stricken out. I have several reasons for 
 it, but I cannot enumerate them all. It cer- 
 tainly is a technical law term, and I see all 
 my friends of the legal profession are in favor 
 of retaining it. Now in looking over the Con- 
 stitution from beginning to the end, I do not 
 find one single word which is applicable to my 
 profession particularly. I do not find a single 
 medical term m it. Now I do not want law 
 to be put ahead of medicine, and, therefore, 
 I shall vote to strike it out. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would propose a com- 
 promise on this matter. There seems to be a 
 great deal of feeling upon one sideband the 
 other, and I propose to move that it be sub- 
 mitted to the people as a distinct proposition. 
 (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I desire to know if it should 
 be submitted as a distinct proposition, whether 
 the gentleman from St. Anthony would not 
 change his position and vote to reconsider ? 
 (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I would inquire, whether 
 the gentleman from St. Peter would get up an 
 entire new Constitution ? 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. There is a distinction 
 between the two words, and one that is ap- 
 plied constantly. Eleemosynary institutions 
 are such as poor-houses, asylums for the blind 
 and insane. Charitable institutions are such 
 as bestow charities strictly ; for instance, 
 schools and academies, whore the tuition i.s 
 given to the pupils. This word occurs in a 
 similar connection in many of the Constitu- 
 tions of our State, and because of this known 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Friday, August 14. 
 
 475 
 
 ilistinction between the two words ; and, I 
 think, if we undertake to strike it out because 
 we do not understand the difference between 
 those two words, we shall commit an error. 
 
 Mr. SHELDON. It strikes me that this 
 word is an important one, and that it covers 
 a class of property which should be exempt 
 from taxation. But, as this word has given 
 rise to considerable ambiguity, I think we 
 might obviate all difficulty by changing the 
 phraseology, in this way : strike out all after 
 the word " mixed," and insert — 
 
 "But burying grounds, public school houses, 
 aud houses used exclusively fof public worship, 
 institutions of a purely public charity, public pro- 
 perty, used exclusively for any public purpose, and 
 a certain portion of personal property, may, by 
 general law, be exempt from taxation." 
 
 I find that provision in the Ohio Constitu- 
 tion. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I think we have had 
 enough discussion upon this important amend- 
 ment, and I move the previous question. 
 
 The previous question was seconded, and 
 the main question ordered to be put ; and, un- 
 der the operation thereof, the amendment, of- 
 fered by Mr. Sheldox, was not agreed to ; 
 and the motion to strike out the word " elee- 
 mosynary," was also disagreed to. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE moved to amend, by insert- 
 ing the word " other" before the word " char- 
 itable" in the fifth line of the first section, so 
 that the clause would read, " Eleemosynary 
 or other charitable purposes, &c." 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 The report, as amended, was then ordered 
 to be engrossed for a third reading. 
 
 IXTEBNAL IMPEOVEMEXTS. 
 
 On motion of Mr. DICKERSON, the Con- 
 vention resolved itself into a Committe of the 
 Whole, (Mr. Coe in the Chair,) upon Report 
 No. 22, on Internal Improvements. 
 
 The report was read as follows : 
 
 " Internal improvements shall forever be encour- 
 aged by the Legislature of this State ; but in 
 no case shall the credit of the State be pledged 
 for any object of internal improvement, nor shall 
 the Legislature in any case create or incur a State 
 debt for this object, without at the same time pro- 
 viding means for the payment of the interest and 
 final liquidation of the same." 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. I move to amend the sec. 
 tion by striking out the word " forever," in 
 the first line, and all after the word " object," 
 
 in the fourth line, so that it shall read as fol- 
 lows: 
 ' " Internal improvements shall be encouraged by 
 I the Legislature of this State ; but in no case shall 
 I the credit of the State be pledged for any object of 
 I internal improvement, nor shall the Legislature in 
 i any case create or incur a State debt for this ob- 
 j ject." 
 
 : It appears to me that the effect of the sec- 
 i tion, as it is reported by the committee, would 
 be to repeal all the restrictions which we have 
 : placed upon the Legislature to prevent the 
 ' State firom becoming a partner in any public 
 ! works except under a grant of land to the 
 i State for particular purposes. 
 I Mr. FOSTER. I move to strike out the 
 ; whole section. I tliink that section thirty- 
 ! six of Report No. eight, and section six of 
 j Report No. 21, covers the whole groimd of 
 j this report. 
 
 j Mr. McKUNE. I believe the motion of 
 j the gentleman is out of order. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. My motion is an amend- 
 ment to the gentleman's motion. 
 j Mr. McKUNE. WeU, I will accept the 
 1 amendment, as a part of my motion. 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 Mr. THOMPSON. I now move that the 
 conmiittee rise and report back to the Con- 
 vention the report, with a recommendation 
 that it be whoU}- stricken out. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the commit- 
 tee rose and reported accordingly. 
 
 The recommendation of the Committee of 
 the Whole was concurred in, and the whole 
 report was stricken out. 
 
 PUBLIC PBOPERTT. 
 
 On motion of Mr. THOMPSON, the Con- 
 vention resolved itself into a Committee of 
 the Whole (Mr. Fosteb in the Chair,) upon 
 the report of the committee on Public Pro- 
 perty. (For Report, see proceedings of Au- 
 gust 12th.) 
 
 The report was read by sections, for amend- 
 ment and discussion. 
 
 " Sec. 2. The people of the State in their right 
 of sovereignty, are declared to possess the ulti- 
 mate property in and to all lands within the juris- 
 diction of the State ; and all lands the title to 
 which shall fail from a defect of heirs, shall rever 
 or escheat to the people." 
 
 Mr. McCLURE moved to amend section 
 two, by striking out the last word, and in- 
 serting in lieu thereof the word " State." 
 
476 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, August 14. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. COG GS WELL. I move to strike out 
 all after the word " State," in the third line. 
 Those words which I propose to strike out, I 
 never have known used before. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. The very same language 
 is found in the Wisconsin Constitution. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. That may be, but I 
 am inclined to think it is not proper language 
 to be used in a Constitution. I think I have 
 "a, case in my mind where I think, if this pro- 
 vision is adopted, it would work a hardship, 
 and contrary to what all of us would say was 
 right, just and proper under the circumstan- 
 ces. A man and his wife were killed instantly 
 by lightning. At the time of their death, 
 they had considerable property in this Terri- 
 tory, and they had an adopted son. It was 
 well known among the neighbors that it was 
 the intention of that man and his wife, in case 
 they should have no heirs, that the adopted 
 son should have their property after their 
 death. An investigation has been made, I 
 understand, for the purpose of ascertaining 
 whether there are any persons who could 
 possibly take the property as heirs, and so 
 far that investigation has proved unavailing. 
 They were persons who came into this Ter- 
 ritory from England a short time ago, and the 
 story is that they have no heirs even in Eng- 
 land. If that is so, it seems to me that the 
 adopted son is the person who ought to have 
 the property, and who would have had it had 
 the father and mother lived to will it to him. 
 Now this matter should be so left that the 
 Legislature may take into consideration cases 
 of that kind. I have no doubt in that case, 
 if the parties had had time, they would have 
 willed the property to the adopted son. 
 
 I can conceive of many other cases where 
 a provision of this kind and character in the 
 Constitution might operate as a hardship, and 
 hence I think we might a.s well leave the mat- 
 ter with the Legislature and let them dispose 
 of it as they think proper under all the cir- 
 cumstances. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. It seems to me that the 
 amendment offered by the gentleman from 
 Steele County docs not help the matter at all. 
 At common law where a person dies leaving 
 property, it goes, in default of heirs, to the 
 State. Now this section merely adopts the 
 common law, and if it is left out it does not 
 
 change the matter in the least, and if there 
 had been such a provision as the gentleman 
 desires, it would not have relieved the case to 
 which the gentleman alluded. The case must 
 go to the Legislature anyvray. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I would say that if 
 this is incorporated as a constitutional pro- 
 vision, the Legislature would have no right to 
 depart from it ; whereas if the will of the 
 common law should obtain, the Legislature 
 would have power to change that rule of the 
 common law. It is with that view that I of- 
 fer the amendment. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The instance mentioned 
 by the gentleman is not a similar instance to 
 those which are remedied or provided for by 
 the Legislature, when they provide that such 
 adopted children shall inherit property in the 
 same manner as though they were heirs by 
 birth. Consequently upon the death of the 
 parent by adoption, there would be no defect 
 of heirs. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I move to amend section 
 one, by inserting before the word " river" in 
 the fifth line, the word " navigable" so as to 
 restrict common highways tonavigable rivers. 
 I think that is in accordance with the ordi- 
 nance of 1787. In first reading over this 
 first section it seemed as if the intention of' 
 the committee was to give the right of com- 
 mon highways to those waters only which 
 were the boundaries of the State. But after 
 looking over it carefully I came to the con- 
 clusion that the language will make common 
 highways of waters leading into the rivers 
 which form the boundaries of the State, for 
 the language is, " the said rivers and waters 
 " leading into the same" — the word " same" 
 referring to the rivers and waters previously 
 mentioned. Now no one supposes that we 
 intend to give to individuals of other States 
 the right to pass up and down other waters 
 than those which are boundaries, unless they 
 are navigable waters. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would state for the ben- 
 efit of gentlemen that this language is an ex- 
 act transcript of the section of the Enabling 
 Act under which we are organizing a State. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. The ordinance of Con- 
 gress of 1787 reads as follows : 
 
 " No taxes shall be imposed upon the lands and 
 property of the United States, and in no case shall 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fkiday, Acgcst 14. 
 
 477 
 
 non-resident proprietors be taxed higher than 
 residents ; the navigable waters leading into the 
 Mississippi, and St. Lawrence and the camping 
 places between the same shall be common high- 
 ways and forever free as well to the inhabitants of 
 such Territory as to citizens of the United States, 
 and those of any other State which may be admit- 
 ted into the confederacy, without any tax, imports 
 or duty therefor." 
 
 I think where we find a certain word, such 
 as the tenn ''navigable'' in this clause I have 
 read, which has received a definite construc- 
 tion for a long number of years, we should 
 be very cautious in excluding them. We 
 should observe the old land marks and not 
 establish new rules unless we can see a de- 
 cided and certain benefit to result from so 
 doing. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. As I stated before, this 
 section is a transcript from the second section 
 of the Enabling Act, which the committee 
 were of the opinion, was the rule to govern in 
 this case. That act says: "and said river" 
 that is the Mississippi river — 
 
 " And waters leading int"' the same, shall be 
 common highways and forever free, as well to the 
 inhabitants of said State as to all other citizens of 
 the United States, without any tax, duty, imports 
 or toll therefor." 
 
 This Convention has no right to limit it in 
 that way. Congress has made it a condition 
 that the waters leading into the Mississippi 
 river shall be free. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I cannot think that Con- 
 gress intended to make every affluent of the 
 Mississippi or St. Croix, navigable streams, or 
 common highways. The reading of this line 
 would however imply that all the waters lead- 
 ing into the Mississippi should be common 
 highways. Now if you make a common high- 
 way of every stream emptying into the Miss- 
 issippi, jou cannot erect a bridge over any of 
 them because that would be erecting an ob- 
 struction. With that reasonable construction 
 of the intention of Congress I believe it would 
 be perfectly safe for us to introduce the word 
 "navigable'' as proposed by the gentleman 
 from Fillmore county. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I have only a word more 
 to say. If Congress intended to make all the 
 waters leading into the Mississippi, whether 
 navigable or otherwise, common highways, 
 then we have no right to change that inten- 
 tion of Congress, and if Congress in using 
 those words, did not intend that, if we adopt 
 
 the same language, we shall not intend it. 
 We will have the same Uberality of construc- 
 tion, that the act of Congress will have, and 
 we are entitled to nothing more. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH moved to amend section 
 two by adding thereto the words " for the 
 use of common schools," so as to make all 
 escheated property go to the State for the use 
 of common schools. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. i. The proceeds of all lands that have 
 been or may hereafter be granted or set apart and 
 reserved by the United States to the Territory or 
 State of Minnesota, for the use and support of a 
 University, shall be and remain a perpetual fund 
 to be called the ' University Fund,' which shall be 
 appropriated to the use and support of the ' Univer- 
 sity of Minnesota,' incorporated by an act of the 
 Legislative Assembly of the said Territory, and for 
 no other purpose, in such manner as the Legislature 
 of the State shall prescribe, in accordance with 
 the provisions of the said act of incorporation, 
 and not otherwise." 
 
 ilr. ALDRICH. I move to amend that 
 section by inserting after the word " Univer- 
 sity" where it first occurs, the words " andal^ 
 " other donations for University purposes." 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I move to strike out all 
 after the word "fund" in the fifth line. I 
 move this amendment, acting somewhat upon 
 the so oft repeated objection, that we should 
 not legislate in the Constitution, and believing 
 that the portion I move to strike out savors 
 very strongly of legislation of the most par- 
 ticular kind. That part of the section which 
 precedes the word fund, secures to the Uni- 
 versity of Minnesota the grants of land here- 
 tofore made or which may hereafter be made, 
 and the part which follows, seems to my mind, 
 to conflict with the eighteenth section of the 
 act incorporating that University. That act 
 is as follows : 
 
 "The Regents, if they deem it "expedient, may 
 receive into connection with the University any 
 college within the territory, upon the application of 
 the Board of Trustees, and such colleges so receiied 
 shall become a branch of the University, and be 
 subject to the visitation of the Regents." 
 
 It would seem that the language of this sec- 
 tion would imply that the fund received shall 
 be held and called the "L'niversity fund," and 
 be applied to the support of that sbgle Uni- 
 versity and no other. The language may not 
 be quite broad enough to embrace that idea 
 
4^8 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, August 14. 
 
 fully, but it certainly has a tendency that way 
 and it certainly is not as good language as 
 that of the act incorporating the institution. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. The gentleman's ob- 
 jection to the latter part of that section would 
 be the very reason why I should vote to re- 
 tain it. Now sir, I am in favor of having 
 that institution located at one place, and one 
 place only, in the future State of Minnesota. 
 I am decidedly opposed to the division of the 
 University fund. I am now, and always have 
 been in favor of fixing that institution perma- 
 nently and of making the fund indivisable. 
 Whether this Convention is prepared to do 
 that in this Constitution, I know not ; but I 
 believe this is the proper place to do it. I am 
 ready, so far as I am concerned individually to 
 do it, and I would like to have it known now, 
 whether it is the intention to leave the Con- 
 stitution in reference to this matter, in such 
 a way that that University can be shifted 
 from one pkce to another, year after year ; 
 and also, in the second place, whether the 
 fund is to be left in such a shape as that it 
 may be divided up and shifted about. If such 
 is the understanding and intention I give full 
 notice, that I am going to work to get the 
 University removed to Winona, and if I can- 
 not do that, I shall do what I can to estab- 
 lish a branch at Winona. And at the same 
 time that I give notice of that, every other 
 gentleman in this Convention, who represent 
 a different town, has the same feeling and will 
 give the same notice. Then what will be the 
 result ? The result will be that every little 
 town in the State will be bidding for that 
 University, and for a part of the fund of that 
 institution to be appropriated or expended 
 upon their respective town sites. 
 
 Now I say that I am in favor — though 
 perhaps it would not be judicious to make 
 such a provision in the Constitution — of lo- 
 cating the University permanently; and I 
 am in favor further of making the fund indi- 
 visible. If it is left to be divided up, every 
 little town will be trying to lobby a bill 
 through the Legislature, to get hold of a por- 
 tion of it, and to establish some little institu- 
 tion in each place. I happen to be one of the 
 Regents of that University, and so long as I 
 am such, I .shall oppose the division of the 
 fund, and its appropriation otherwise than at 
 one place in the Territory. I am satisfied 
 
 with the location where it now is. If how- 
 ever it is understood that we are to have the 
 privilege hereafter, whenever we can lobby a 
 bill through, to get any portion of that fund 
 we can, for a branch institution, I will be 
 ready to go for AYinona. 
 
 Now I suggest whether it is best to place 
 the fund in such a situation that it shall be 
 made the cause of corrupting the Legislature 
 — a subject so many gentlemen have fre- 
 quently referred to ? 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. That speech is all for 
 buncombe, and nothing else, because if the 
 gentleman is prepared to discharge the duties, 
 which he says are most unfortunately cast 
 upon him, he should have read the act of in- 
 corporation. I am ready to believe that he is 
 as ignorant of the act as he is of his duties. 
 Section twelve says that " the University of 
 " Minnesota shall be located at or near the 
 "Falls of St. Anthony," and there it is fixed 
 and located, and if it were not fixed and lo- 
 cated at or near the Falls of St. Anthony, I 
 am not one of those gentlemen who would 
 pitch in and take it away, and disturb its per- 
 manency. Let it remain there forever, and 
 let Winona, with her Academies entirely 
 alone. 
 
 Besides it is not in the power of the gen- 
 tleman or of any Minnesotian to distribute 
 the University fund among academics. If 
 the gentleman wants an institution of learn- 
 ing at Winona, let him aim at something 
 higher than academies. That idea is effect- 
 ually repealed by the eighteenth section of the 
 act of incorporation. " The Regents, if they 
 " shall deem it expedient, may receive into 
 " connection with the University." Now what 
 does that " receive into connection with" 
 mean? Does it mean a division of the Uni- 
 versity, the establishment of a branch here 
 and a branch there? Not at all. It would 
 be torturing the language to say that to "re- 
 ceive in" meant to divide up the fund. And 
 what may they receive into connection? 
 " Any college," not academy. Now I am 
 not in favor of diverting one dime which has 
 been appropriated, or may hereafter be ap- 
 propriated, from the purposes set forth in 
 the act incorporating the University of Min- 
 nesota as located at St. Anthony. It suits 
 me very well, and it is all that I could ask. 
 I would oppose any legislation for diverting 
 
MINNESOTA CON^TINTION DEBATES— Friday, August 14. * 
 
 47« 
 
 that fund, for crippling the resources of that 
 institution, or change its location. Is not the 
 gentleman satisfied with that? He cannot 
 but be. But that does not meet his view of 
 it, because if it is to be divertable, he Is for 
 diverting it. He would take it to Winona. 
 I think I am above and beyond any design of 
 that character. At least I have no traps for 
 securing any portion of that fund. I have no 
 plans to lay. I know nothing of them. "What- 
 ever is legal, fair, equitable and honest, and 
 comes fairly within the scope of my action, I 
 will do. But no traps, no plans, no wire pull- 
 ing, no " skulldugery" for me. 
 
 The gentl'-man says this act may be repeal- 
 ed. It may, sir, and it may yet be repealed 
 by that gentleman's influence, and vote, who 
 now seeks to make buncombe by making it 
 permanent. I am opposed to its repeal. In- 
 stead of being its enemy, I am its fiiend, and 
 want it now and forever as it is. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. If I understand the mo- 
 tion of the gentleman from Fillmore county, 
 it is to strike out all after the word " fund" in 
 the fifth line. Now I cannot conceive what 
 reasonable object the gentleman can have for 
 making that motion. He sa3-s that the object 
 of the section is to legislate in a direction 
 opposite to the act of incorporation. Now it 
 the gentleman will read the remainder of the 
 section which he proposes to strike out, he 
 vrill find that quite the reverse, from that is 
 the object of the section, for it provides that 
 money, being a perpetual fund, to be called 
 the " University Fund, shall be appropriated 
 ''to the use and support of the University of 
 " Minnesota, incorporated by the act of the 
 " legislative assembly of the said Territory, 
 ■ * and for no other purpose, in such manner as 
 " the Legislature of the State shall prescribe, 
 "in accordance with the provisions of the 
 " said act of incorporation and not otherwise." 
 Far from trying to divert the funds from the 
 channel prepared by past legislation, it dis- 
 tinctly directs them in that cliannel, and pro- 
 vides that they shall not be taken out of it. 
 Now I have a word to say in regard to this 
 University. It was my fortune without any 
 consultation on my part to be placed as Chair- 
 man of the committee which made this re- 
 port. It is also my fortune to have resided 
 for the last six years at St. Anthony, the 
 point at which, and previous to that time the j 
 
 ! University of Minnesota had been located by 
 j the Territorial Legislature, and I presume I 
 might be excused if I should feel a little more 
 interest inthis matter than I otherwise should. 
 But, Mr. Chairman, my interest is for the Uni- 
 versity of Minnesota, and I say to gentlemen 
 of this Convention, from whatever part of the 
 ! Territory they may come, that rather than 
 see the L'niversity of Minnesota divided up into 
 colleges, into branches, and scattered through- 
 out the Temtory, I would see it all removed 
 — every vestige of it, to Chatfield, or "Wino- 
 na, or any other part of the Territory ; and 
 so would the constituents I represent here, 
 rather see every vestige of it removed from 
 its present position and transferred to any 
 other part of the future State, than see its 
 influence destroyed by a division. 
 
 Now what is the object of a State Universi- 
 ty ? The very term itself shows what it is. 
 It is to encircle about one point, all the wis- 
 dom and all the intelligence that may be mth- 
 in the province of the State to encircle, and to 
 send out and diS'use education through the 
 whole State. It is the object of the fund, ag 
 expressed in the act of incorporation, to pro- 
 vide for the students of the State of Minneso- 
 ta, free of charge and expense upon their 
 part, enlarged facilities of education. It is 
 divided by the act of incorporation into five 
 departments, — embracing all the necessary de- 
 partments of instruction. And it is the ob- 
 ject, and reasonable intention of the act of 
 Congress, in making the grant of land that we 
 shall a State L'niversity one and indivisible. 
 And, although, Mr. Chairman, it was my de- 
 sire, as a member of this Committee, as I 
 have indicated previously, in offering an 
 amendment to the article on education, that 
 this Convention should determine that this 
 L'niversity should be one and indivisible, I 
 did not ask the Convention to provide for that 
 in this section, but only that it should be put 
 in the form in which it now is, —merely ap- 
 propriating the proceeds of those lands to the 
 University under the act of incorporation, and 
 leave it, rather than burden it with other 
 measures and liave it defeated entirely. And 
 now I ask the gentlemen of this Convention 
 to locate that University permanently either 
 where tlie Legislature seven years ago saw fit 
 to locate it, or at some other place, and pro- 
 vide that it shall remain permanent. I ask 
 
480 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, August 14. 
 
 then, at the same time that it shall not be 
 scattered abroad and destroyed. 
 
 Mr. WILSON I move to amend by 
 striking out all after the words "support of" 
 in the fifth line, and insert " a university, and 
 "for no other purpose, in such manner as the 
 "Legislature of the State shall prescribe." 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I accept that in lieu of 
 my amendment. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. That, sir, will leave this 
 matter just where it is now; leave the univer- 
 sity just where it is ; and leave all the lands 
 that have been or may be appropriated for it, 
 to be applied just as they have been applied, 
 or as the original section provides. It cuts 
 out of this section all this minute legislation 
 and it cuts out of the section that part which 
 provides for the adoption of a charter, of the 
 provisions of which we know nothing. We 
 do not know what sort of a bill our friends 
 from St. Anthony may have got. We sup- 
 pose that they have got as good a one as they 
 could, and they are somewhat celebrated up 
 there, for getting good acts passed. I admit 
 the force of the language which has been 
 echoed and re-echoed through this hall, about 
 legislating in the Constitution. I am opposed to 
 it. Leave this matter where it is, and let the 
 Legislature take care of it. There may be 
 many things necessary to be * done by 
 the Legislature concerning this University, 
 and which, if we leave the section as it now 
 stands, could not be done. For one I am not 
 here advocating a removal of the university 
 from St. Anthony. I have no idea of such a 
 thing. I am one who will always protest 
 against the adoption of such a course, but I 
 am not one who is ready to come here and 
 say that the Legislature shall never make any 
 changes in reference to it. I have heard it 
 said that there was a trick in this location 
 which raps in this wise, St. Paul, St. Anthony 
 and Stillwater, comprise the Territory of Min- 
 nesota; St. Paul shall be the seat of govern- 
 ment, St. Anthony the scat of the university, 
 and Stillwater the seat of the State Prison. 
 I understand that there has been expended 
 up there for building some thirty or forty 
 thousand dollars, and I will say, and every 
 gentleman in this hall knows that it is 
 true, that five or six thousand dollars is the 
 very utmost that ought to have been expended 
 hitherto. All that has been expended over that 
 
 amount must have been expended for the pur- 
 pose of preventing the people from moving it. 
 If it has been expended for such a purpose, 
 while I am willing to let the institution remain 
 there, I am not willing to encourage such a 
 course. People do not to come Minnesota for 
 the purpose of bringing their children to be 
 educated at St. Anthony; and I say there 
 was no need of expending more than six or 
 eight thousand dollars. I do not want to 
 make any further provisions respecting it un- 
 til I know the wishers of the people concern- 
 ing it. It is a matter of legislation exclusively, 
 I am sorry to hear my friend and colleague 
 (Mr. Balcombe) get up and say that by vo- 
 ting for this, we vote for dividing the Univer- 
 sity fund, and that we are in favor of getting 
 the university at Winona and elsewhere. 
 That was never talked of and he was the first 
 to suggest it. We live in the southern por- 
 tion of the Territory, and do not expect any 
 such thing. We are to live in the State and 
 we have an interest in doing right and seeing 
 right done, and I do not know whether the 
 people want the University located there, or 
 whether they want us to adopt such a pro- 
 vision as is contained in thii section. I do 
 not known any thing about it. Now all this 
 talk about dividing the University comes with 
 a bad grace and has a bad effect. It does 
 not meet the question fairly. Especially does 
 it come with bad grace from gentlemen who 
 have voted against measures of protection 
 which the people need, and voted against them 
 upon the express grn--nd that they savored of 
 legislation. Is not this legislation? is not this 
 taking out of the hands of the people what 
 they may wish to change? I like St. An- 
 thony, and I like her delegates here, so far as 
 I know them, but I like other places just as 
 well. I do not know that the people want to 
 establish that institution there permanently. 
 That is a sufficient reason for my not voting 
 to establish it. I do know that my people 
 did not send me hero to establish any such 
 thing. They sent mo here to frame an or- 
 ganic act for the advancement of the whole 
 people, and not a particular locality. This 
 does not savor even of a general law. It is 
 local and local only. It is legislation and mi- 
 nute legislation too. And when gentlemen 
 get up here and bluster about it, they ought 
 to take a retrospective view, and then they 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, Acottst 14. 
 
 481 
 
 I 
 
 will take a diflferent course. Now our oppo- 
 sition to this section is not because we have 
 any feeling against any locality ; not because 
 we want to divide this fund, for we protest 
 against any such thing; it is not because we 
 wish to remove the university, for we have 
 no idea of that; but because it is none of 
 the business which we were sent here to do. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. The gentleman from "Winona 
 who has just taken his seat, repeatedly alludes 
 to what he calls a trick by which the university 
 was located at St. Anthony. I happen to be 
 a httle better acquainted with the measure by 
 which it was located, and I am happy to in- 
 form the gentleman that ^there was no trick, 
 none whatever. The subject of the Univer- 
 sity was not introduced into the Legislatvire 
 at all imtU after the capital was located at St. 
 Paul, and the prison at Stillwater. The 
 University bill was introduced as a sepa- 
 rate measure, independent of the others en- 
 tirely, and after the others were disposed of. 
 While the other questions were being disposed 
 of, I think not an individual in the Legislature 
 thought about the University. That was an 
 after thought, and I claim the credit, if there 
 be any credit, and the disgrace, if there be 
 any disgrace, of introducing that bill and work- 
 ing to get it through. 
 
 That gentleman alludes, too, to the fact 
 that gentlemen get up here and bluster. Now 
 I respectfully submit that the style of oratory 
 of that gentleman comes as near to his own 
 description of a blustering style as that of 
 any^gentleman upon this floor, and perhaps it 
 would be as hard a thing as I need to say, to 
 turn the picture round to the source whence 
 it came. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The chair would re- 
 mark that it is not strictly in order to say that 
 any gentleman blusters in this Convention. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would inquire if it is pro- 
 per to say so in Committee of the Whole ? 
 (Laughter.) 
 
 I was simply taking the remark which was 
 sent out, and sending it home again to roost. 
 Another gentleman is .accused of trying to 
 make Buncombe because he advocates a per- 
 manent locality for the University. I would 
 respectfully submit that the charge would be 
 quite as appUcable where it comes from, for 
 all I can see, as where it is attempted to be 
 appUed. I hardly think it is courteous to 
 61 
 
 charge others with improper motives, and im- 
 proper manner of advocating what they be- 
 lieve to be right upon this or any other ques- 
 tion. 
 
 Now I can see — and in saying so, perhaps, 
 I come in for a share of the charge of making 
 Buncombe — I can see some reason why the 
 University should be permanently located, 
 and why it should remain a permanent insti- 
 tution without the liability of being removed 
 fix)m one place to another, or of being split 
 up. Gentlemen speak as though this talk 
 about its being divided is all idle and nonsen- 
 sical. Now gentlemen know that there are 
 threats of having it removed. Massachusetts 
 can incorporate a provision into her Constitu- 
 tion giving a permanent location to her insti- 
 tution — Harvard University. Michigan has a 
 provision for the permanent location of her 
 University, and other States have done simi- 
 larly. Now if there is any institution in a 
 State which it is diflBcult to remove, and 
 which ought not to be removed, it seems to 
 me it is a University. If it remains perma- 
 nently in one locality, contributions will be 
 made of a valuable character, which will not 
 be made if it is hable to be removed at any 
 time. If an institution were no larger than 
 Yale College was when it was removed from 
 Saybrook, it would be of comparitively tri- 
 fling importance, for when that institution was 
 removed to New Haven they took all its li- 
 brary and cabinet in a one-horse cart. But 
 when an institution becomes so large that it is 
 not capable of being removed easily, it seems 
 to me that it should be made permanent. If 
 gentlemen are not in favor of its being made 
 permanent where it is — and there is no more 
 favorable locality, or one more convenient — 
 place it somewhere else. If they are in favor 
 of making it one and indivisable, why not let 
 it stand, and take it out of the danger of 
 temporary legislation ? Let it remain so that 
 it can acquire a character for stabiUty and 
 value. It seems to me that it is reasonable, 
 right and proper that it should be a perma- 
 nent institution, and that it should have all 
 the character that can be given to it by such 
 a clause in the Constitution. 
 
 On motion of Mr. HUDSON, the commit- 
 tee then rose, reported progress, and asked 
 leave to sit again. 
 
 Leave was granted. 
 
482 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, August 14. 
 
 On motion of Mr. KING, (at twelve o'clock 
 and fifteen minutes,) the Convention took a 
 recess until half-past two o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention re-assembled at half-past 
 two o'clock. 
 
 PUBLIC PKOPERTY. 
 
 On motion of Mr. SECOMBE, the Conven- 
 tion resolved itself into a Committee of the 
 "Whole on the report on Public Property, (Mr. 
 Hudson in the Chair.) 
 
 The question recurred on the amendment 
 offered by Mr. WILSON, which was pending 
 when the committee rose in the morning. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. When the motion was 
 made this morning for the committee to rise, 
 I was about to say a word or two in reference 
 to some remarks which were made by a gen- 
 tleman upon this floor, as to the motives and 
 objects I had in submitting the remarks I did 
 this morning. In what I said upon the 
 amendment proposed by the gentleman upon 
 my right, (Mr. Billings,) I said that I was 
 in favor, so far as I was concerned personally, 
 of this educational institution being perma- 
 nently located ; and further, that I was in fa- 
 vor of making that fund, appropriated for 
 that particular educational interest, an indi- 
 visable fund. My colleague took pains to 
 state that all those remarks were for Bun- 
 combe. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Will the gentleman per- 
 mit me to explain. I did not use the word 
 Buncombe a single time during my remarks. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I did. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. It is fathered by the gen- 
 tleman upon the other side. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. It must be that my 
 ears are very much at fault, for I certainly 
 heard the gentleman make the remark, and I 
 did not hear the remark from the other gen- 
 tleman. Now I think this kind of remark 
 and thrust, under present circumstances 
 more particularly, are not in place. I believe 
 myself that I was sincere ; perhaps I was 
 not, but I think I was, and I think I did not 
 make them for Buncombe. It may be that I 
 may be mistaken, but that is my present im- 
 pression. I think, moreover, that it has been 
 known for two years to many who sit in this 
 body, and to many outside, that such has 
 been my opinion, and that I have acted ac- 
 
 cordingly whenever the matter has been pre- 
 sented to me — and I may say that it has been 
 presented to me a great many times by gen- 
 tlemen who happened to be town corporators 
 in Southern Minnesota, and who desired that 
 their town sites should have the benefit of 
 that particular fund. As I had something of 
 a reputation of being a removalist, I was ap- 
 proached several times to see whether the 
 University could not be removed to some 
 other locality. Now while I am sometimes in 
 favor of removing seats of government, and 
 perhaps other things which are mere matters 
 connected vrith some State policy, I am de- 
 cidedly opposed to removing the State Uni- 
 versity, and I am in favor of fixing it at some 
 particular spot, so that it never can be re- 
 moved. Its present location is central within 
 the State — as much so as any we could 
 select. 
 
 For these reasons I made the remarks I 
 made the remarks I did, that I was in favor 
 of its being located permanently, and that the 
 fund should be indivisible ; and for that 
 reason I was accused of making a Buncombe 
 speech. The gentleman was'simply mistaken, 
 for if I were to make such a speech, I should 
 speak in favor of its removal into Southern 
 Minnesota, where I am veiy particularly 
 interested. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I did not think I 
 should make any remarks upon this question 
 until I saw it was pressed in certain quarters 
 with an earnestness which I did not expect to 
 see. It is true I have kept a little watch of 
 this matter from the time the attempt was 
 first made, to have this fund held as an indi- 
 visible fund, and I did not suppose that the 
 same thing would be attempted in a different 
 manner, when it had once been voted down. 
 But I find the same thing now brought before 
 the Convention, though in a worse fonn. 
 
 There have been seventy-two sections of 
 land granted to this State for University pur- 
 poses, and that is to be a fund which belongs 
 to the State, and not to any particular locality. 
 That fund is to be appropriated to the cstab, 
 lishment of a University, and it cannot, under 
 any circmnstances, be appropriated to any 
 other purpose, even though this Constitution 
 and the Legislature should direct otherwise. 
 The terms of the original grant must be com- 
 plied with. In my judgment it is not neces- 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Fridat, August 14. 
 
 483 
 
 sary that this Convention should pass any 
 rule or regulation in regard to the matter. 
 That is my idea about it. But if anything is 
 to be done, I desire that it shall be done in a 
 manner that shall benefit the whole State, 
 and one part or parcel just as much as 
 another. 
 
 I find, also, in looking at the history of this 
 matter, that those seventy-two sections of 
 land have all been selected. It is true that 
 the title still remains in the United States 
 Government ;. but upon the strength of that 
 title which will iiltimately be vested in the 
 State or Territory, individuals have gone on 
 and made a selection of those lands. Now I 
 have been upon some of them, and 1 think 
 they are very valuable. I know that some of 
 them are worth at least tliirty dollars an acre 
 to-day, and on an average they are worth ten 
 dollars an acre ; that seventy-two sections of 
 land at the rate of ten dollars an acre would 
 amount to upwards of four hundred and 
 fifty thousand dollars. That amount of 
 money, together with the interest which will 
 accrue from it, is to be appropriated for the 
 benefit of a University, and that University 
 should enure to the benefit of the whole State. 
 Now I find, in looking at the language of this 
 report, that it has been very carefully and 
 very cunningly drawn, and I find that certain 
 language has been incorporated into it, which 
 I find in a certain act which was passed by 
 the Territorial Legislatm-e previously to this 
 time. I find in that act that this University 
 has been located at or near the Falls of Saint 
 Anthony, and here I find to-day men upon 
 this floor, coming from that same place, at or 
 near the Falls of Saint Authony, urging and 
 requesting us in the strongest terms, to have 
 that act, which has established that Uni- 
 versity, foimded upon a fund of four htmdred 
 and fifty thousand dollars, and the interest 
 which may accrue hereafter, made a part and 
 parcel of the Constitution of the State of 
 Minnesota. Now before I re-enact that law, 
 which I imderstand the gentleman fi-om Rice 
 coimty had the honor of originally framing — 
 and if there is any honor, he certainly is 
 entitled to it — I say before I propose to assist 
 in incorporating that law into our Constitution, 
 I desire to look to some other parts and por- 
 tions of this Territory, and see if they, too, 
 have not some rights in this matter. 
 
 Now in the first place, I pretend to say 
 that that amount of money and the interest 
 accruing from it, is sufficient not only to 
 establish one University at or near the Falls 
 of Saint Anthony, but branches in other and 
 diSerent portions of the State. And I find, 
 too, that the gentleman who drafted this par- 
 ticular statute, had that same thing in mind, 
 and, although he proposed to have that thing 
 done in the shape of Colleges, or something of 
 that kind, in my judgment that is not exactly 
 the right way and manner, to say the least of 
 it. Now, sir, if this fund is sufficient, not 
 only to establish a State Institution at or 
 near the Falls of Saint Anthony, but also to 
 establish branches in other places, it does 
 seem to me that other localities would have 
 the right to speak in regard to this matter. 
 We come fi-om other localities that are ready 
 and wiling to give, not only three thousand 
 dollars — for I understand that that particular 
 locality at or near the Falls of Saint Anthony 
 did give or secure the full sum of three thou- 
 sand dollars for the benefit of this University 
 — but to give fifteen or twenty thousand 
 dollars for the purpose of seciuring the expen- 
 diture, near their respective neighborhoods, of 
 this four hundred and fifty thousand dollars 
 or the interest accrumg therefrom. It does 
 seem to me that if we mean to represent the * 
 interests of our respective localities in this 
 matter, we should take into consideration 
 some of these facts and circumstances. 
 
 Now, representing, as I do, a certain portion 
 of Southern Minnesota, I say for one that I 
 ain not willing that this vast amoimt of money 
 which must, and necessarily will be expended 
 at or near the Falls of Saint Anthony, shall 
 be spent there for the purpose of building up 
 that particular place, increasing and enhan- 
 cing the value of property about there, while 
 my little place down in Southern Minnesota 
 derives no benefit from it in any way, sliape 
 or manner. That the whole of this thing 
 should be vested in certain Regents, appointed 
 by the Legislature, and having no power, 
 perhaps, except what is vested in them by 
 this particular legislative enactment, I am 
 not willing that it should be done, and I will 
 not have it done. 
 
 Now I say that instead of coming up here 
 in solid phalanx and attempting to push this 
 thing right through as a local messure, it 
 
484 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, August 14. 
 
 seems to me that we should look at the mat- 
 ter and see how the thing stands. Suppose I 
 should come in here with a proposition not 
 half as ridiculous as this; suppose I should 
 come in here with a proposition which neces- 
 siarily must and will come before the Conven- 
 tion, to remove the capital from St. Paul to 
 my little place of Owatonna, do you suppose 
 these men from St. Anthony, would be in fa- 
 vor of that local measure ? Do you suppose 
 they would vote for the removal of the capital 
 to Olvatonna or any other place? No sir, 
 they would say that is a matter of local legis- 
 lation and we did not expect you would ask 
 for it. Yet it is a legitimate matter before 
 the Convention, and it is within our province, 
 and we will have to act upon it. Now we do 
 not ask that any such local measure shall be 
 passed by this Convention. We know it 
 would benefit our particular locality by the 
 expenditure of a large amount of money, but 
 we know it is a local measure and that we 
 have no right to press it upon this Convention. 
 It is just so in regard to this university fund. 
 It is a fund given by the federal government 
 to the whole State, and instead of its being 
 swallowed up, as a certain amount of it has 
 been swallowed up, in a certain place illegally, 
 A it should not be done, and I say, that with 
 my consent it shall not be done. It shall not 
 be done by my vote or my sanction until it 
 has been submitted to the Legislature, when 
 the representatives and agents of the people 
 come here with the express view of deciding 
 the question for themselves. The land is per- 
 fectly safe at the present time ; the title is in 
 the federal government, and if the Legislature 
 has gone so far as to authorize bonds to be is- 
 sued, let those who have taken that step learn 
 the responsibility. It is a fund given to the 
 whole State, and as a part of that State, I 
 say that my locality shall have a share. I for 
 one will not consent, to ramming into our Con- 
 stitution a provision locating this university 
 permanently at St. Anthony, carrying with it 
 the expenditure of a large sum of money 
 every year, which is calculated to enhance 
 the price of property, in that particular lo- 
 cality, without /establishing branches in any 
 other portions of the Territory, when there 
 are funds and means .of carrying it out ; I say 
 I will not consent to that, and that my people 
 will not consent to it. 
 
 Therefore I say leave the whole thing with 
 the Legislature ; and let our agents, the Leg- 
 islature, come here, with the express under- 
 standing that they shall dispose of this mag- 
 nificent fund. Such are my views and senti- 
 ments on this subject. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I do not know as there is 
 any use of discussing this question any fur- 
 ther because the gentleman from Steele county 
 tells us he will not have this or that done, as 
 though he had made up his mind to that, and 
 had come to the conclusion deliberately and 
 had the power to carry it out. If that is so 
 perhaps we had better stop where we are. 
 But seriously, if there is any reason why 
 there should be permanency given to that in- 
 stitution in this Constitution, it seems to me 
 that the gentleman's argument shows that as 
 conclusively and clearly as almost any one 
 thing. Now what kind of an idea can that 
 gentleman have of a university for the State 
 of Minnesota which is to be scattered around 
 every neighborhood of our entire State ? He 
 claims a portion of it for Owatonna and argues 
 that every neighborhood is entitled to a share 
 of it. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. We want some at 
 Winona to. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. They want some at Wi- 
 nona. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. We want nothing at Wi- 
 nona. He who says so is not a friend to 8t. 
 Anthony. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Well that seems to be a 
 matter unsettled; some want it and some 
 don't. And up here at Shakopee they want 
 it. Now the idea that because a University 
 is located in one portion of the Territory, 
 therefore the people of other portions of the 
 Territory have no interest in it is absurd. I 
 certainly should feel no interest in an institu- 
 tion cut up into slices so small that every 
 neighborhood could have a part of it. We 
 have an^institution of that kind and it is pro- 
 vided for — our common schools. Lands have 
 been given us for that specific purpose. 
 Owatonna will get her share. Congress, in 
 her liberality, has made a donation of lands 
 for another purpose and that is for a University, 
 and a University, I suppose means a University 
 in the ordinary acceptation of that term. It 
 does not mean an institution cut up into such 
 email portions that every school district in the 
 
MINNESOTA CONl^ENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, August 14. 
 
 485 
 
 State can have a piece of it. Now the charter 
 of that institution provides that colleges in dif- 
 ferent portions of the Territory, bj- making ap- 
 plication may become branches of it. "What 
 more does any reasonable man want than that. 
 Does he desire that every school district may 
 have a share, and become a branch of the Uni- 
 versity ? If we want to make our institution 
 contemptible and of no use whatever, and 
 leave it so that every neighborhood in the 
 State may clamor for a share of it, and get 
 it, I apprehend that the $450,000 wiU be of 
 very small service to the State, so far as edu- 
 cational objects are concerned. But, it seems 
 to me that if th& fund is applied to a perma- 
 nent institution, and such branches as come 
 under the head of colleges, it is liberal enough 
 for any portion of the State. "We ought to 
 pause and look at the consequenses of a dif- 
 ferent policy. We ought not to hold this sub- 
 ject up perpetually for every Legislatiure to 
 meddle vrith, and to see how much they can 
 make out of it. It ought not to be held out 
 as a temptation. "We ought to put it in such 
 a shape that it will be permanent, and give us 
 at least one institution in the State which 
 shall b8 of a high order and character, and 
 afford every facility to students to get an edu- 
 cation as thorough as they could get in any 
 institution in the United States. The proceeds 
 of the fund will be none too large to furnish 
 that institution with the necessary libraries, 
 apparatus and professorships, and to aid such 
 colleges as may be branches of it. We ought 
 to look at these points carefully and give the 
 institution such permanency as similar insti- 
 tutions have in other States. 
 
 Mr. BATES. Mr. Chairman : thus far in 
 this discussion I have not participated, from 
 the fact, that I represent, in part, the district 
 in which the University is located, and that 
 it might be thought, perhaps, I might be in- 
 fluenced by local prejudice. But this is a 
 question, sir, which should rise above all local 
 prejudice. "Whatever views may be enter- 
 tained l5y others, I consider it no great mat- 
 ter whether the University were located at 
 Hastings, Rochester, "Winona, or any other 
 part of the Territory; but it is of the first im- 
 portance to my mind, that wherever the loca- 
 tion is, it should be permanent. The people 
 should feel that it is a permanent thing, and 
 not subject to be removed at any time. And, 
 
 in the second place, it is necessary that it 
 should have a large and permanent fund. One 
 gentleman, estimating this University fund at 
 $450,000, considered that it ought to be dis- 
 tributed in various parts of the State. But 
 $450,000 is not a large fund for a University. 
 It is a small fund compared with that of simi- 
 lar institutions in the old world ; and there 
 are colleges in our land with endowments of 
 double that amount. Perhaps the gentleman 
 would have a system of education here some- 
 thing like that in the State of Ohio, where 
 there are twenty-three separate institutions 
 of learning, and yet hardly one of them really 
 worthy of the name of a college ; whereas, if 
 that people had united their ample fund, and 
 put it all into one University, they would have 
 built up an institution of the highest utility, 
 and worthy of that great State. As it is, 
 their young men do not, as a general thing 
 attend their own schools, which are almost all 
 laboring imder the depressions of debt. This 
 is an example we should by all means avoid. 
 But, if we adopt the amendment, I cannot but 
 fear, that, instead of having one State Univer- 
 sity, everyway creditable and prosperous, and 
 permanent, with all its professorships regularly 
 endowed, we shall have a httle college located 
 here and there, of little advantage to the peo- 
 ple, and in no way calculated to give dignity 
 and character [to the literary institutions of 
 our country. 
 
 Mr. "WILSON. Mr. Chaibmax : I would 
 like to ask two or three questions of some 
 gentleman knowing the facts. I would like 
 to know what improvements have been made 
 on those University lands, and of what order? 
 What preparations there are for further im- 
 provements? and how much they will be 
 worth when done ? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Mr. Chaibman: I will 
 state as far as I know : though the facts are 
 doubtless more completely within the know- 
 ledge of the gentleman from Winona, (Mr. 
 Balcombe) who, gentlemen say, has been 
 making buncombe speeches on this subject. 
 
 In the first place, immediately after the 
 incorporation of this University — there being 
 then no funds, no lands, and no income of any 
 kind; and it being provided in the act of in- 
 corporation that a preparatory department 
 might be instituted immediately, certain citi- 
 zens of the Territory — not particularly those 
 
486 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Feiday, August 14. 
 
 of St. Anthony, because St. Anthony has 
 never claimed the privilege of doing every- 
 thing for this University — certain citizens of 
 the Territory contributed some three or four 
 thousand dollars — the gentleman from Steele 
 county will accept of this. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Yes, sir ; raised by 
 the citizens of the Territory. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. These citizens of the Ter- 
 ritory raised some three or four thousand dol- 
 lars, and therewith the Regents erected a 
 wooden building upon a lot in St. x\nthony, 
 which was occupied for their school purposes 
 some three or four years. This being in the 
 centre of the city of St. Anthony, and there 
 not being sufficient room for the University, 
 the building was disposed of by the Regents, 
 and another location was made about half a 
 mile from that, where twenty-seven acres of 
 ground were purchased at an expense of 
 about $5,000. The $3,000 realized from the 
 sale of the old building, were put in for the 
 purchase. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. How did they pay the 
 other two thousand dollars ? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The other two thousand 
 dollars were paid in the manner I am about 
 to state. Some two years ago, the Legisla- 
 ture authorized the Regents to raise money 
 by bond and mortgage — to what amount I 
 am not able to tell exactly — for the purpose 
 of going on to erect University buildings in 
 accordance with the original act of incorpora- 
 tion, by which it was provided that the Re- 
 gents might erect buildings for University 
 purposes. That sum of money, whatever it 
 was, has been, and is now being applied to the 
 erection, upon this new site, of a stone build- 
 ing, which is intended as one wing of the 
 University — a draught of which has been in 
 existence some three or four years, and may 
 be seen in the office of the Secretary of the 
 Territory. It is open to the inspection of all. 
 But what precise sum of money has been ex- 
 pended, or is to be expended, on this building, 
 I am not able to inform the gentleman. I 
 know, however, that that University ground, 
 that was purchased at about $5,000, is worth 
 not less than forty thousand dollars at the 
 present time. 
 
 Mr. MURPHY. Mr. Chair-man: Three 
 thousand dollars of that sum was raised by 
 the sale of the property contributed by friends 
 
 of the institution, and the remaining two 
 thousand from the proceeds of bond and 
 mortgage on the pine lands of the University. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. .Mr. Chairman: I would 
 like to know to what amount these lands have 
 been mortgaged, if any gentleman can tell 
 me. Even echo does not answer, Mr. Chair- 
 srAN. As far as I can see into this matter, 
 the further you go, the worse it looks. Sir, 
 there is not a town of any importance in the 
 Territory, that would not to-day raise fifty 
 thousand dollars for the location in it of the 
 State University. This is no black-mail, Mr. 
 Chairman ; it is something fairly owing to 
 the school fund of the Territory. 
 
 Here, sir, are seventy-two sections of land, 
 making forty-six thousand and eighty acres. 
 This land, at ten dollars an acre, is worth four 
 hundred and sixty thousand and eight hun- 
 dred dollars. See what would be the interest 
 on that in the run of ten years ; and then, 
 double that for the expenditures of tlie 
 students. The interest on nine hundred and 
 twenty-one thousand six hundred dollars at 
 ten per cent, would give an annual revenue 
 of ninety-two thousand one hundred and 
 sixty dollars. This sum will be expended 
 annually wherever the University is located. 
 Such would be the advantage to the parties 
 who should have it. Everybody that knows 
 anything about colleges, know that the 
 students generally expend, every year, about 
 twice the sum required for the annual support 
 of all the other expenses of the college. I 
 I tell you, sir, they ought to give us a bonus. 
 Wherever the University goes, they ought to 
 pay largely. It is due to the school fund ; it 
 is due to the common interest. There are 
 other localities just as eligible in every way, 
 as that at Saint Anthony ; and if I were in 
 the Legislature — and the developments of cir- 
 cumstances might still further modify our 
 legislative action, though this is not the place 
 to make these changes — but if I were in the 
 Legislature, to any place that would put uj) 
 their buildings, I would give a shar^ of the 
 benefit of this fund. I could name ten or 
 fifteen towns that would give fifty thousand 
 dollars for that location ; and it would be the 
 best thing they ever did. 
 
 This thing of special legislation in our 
 Constitution, for the benefit of any particular 
 people, is wrong. There ia no necessity for it. 
 
MINNESOTA CONYENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, Acgust 14. 
 
 487 
 
 We do not come here wkh information of 
 these matters. No man here knows enough 
 about such questions to vote intelligently. 
 We do not know what to do with them. The 
 men who think we are in favor of squander- 
 ing this fund, and scattering it abroad over 
 the Territory, are altogether mistaken. We 
 are every one in favor of preserving it, and 
 taking care of it. I stop short of no man in 
 my desire for this to become a "number one'' 
 institution. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. Mr. Chaibjian : In the 
 last report of the Regents of the University 
 it is stated, that about twenty-five thousand 
 acres of the University lands had been located, 
 and that the larger portion had been located 
 in the pine region. Everybody at all acquain- 
 ted with pine lands, knows their price to 
 range from three to five dollars an acre. 
 What is the character of the lands located in 
 other parts of the Territory I do not know. 
 Some of them may be very good lands. I 
 understand the selections have been made 
 with care, and they may be worth ten dollars 
 an acre ; but the probability is their value 
 would not average above five dollars an acre. 
 As for that portion of the land not yfet located, 
 of course they will have to take their chance. 
 The location cannot be made before the sur- 
 veys, and then the Regents iwiU have to take 
 their chance with others. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Mr. Chairman: I 
 cannot forbear making a remark or two more, 
 in reply to what has just fallen from the lips 
 of the gentleman fi"om St. Anthony. He says 
 a certain amount — perhaps about one-half of 
 the University lands have been selected ; that 
 a considerable portion of these selections are 
 pine lands, not worth more than five dollars 
 an acre. 
 
 Now I wish to be distinctly understood 
 when I say that these individuals who have 
 had this fund in their eye, in their eagerness 
 to get control of it, have overstepped all law, 
 and all authority. They had no right or 
 authority to interfere with this land in any 
 way, shape, or manner. In the first place, 
 Mr. Chaibman, they had no right to select it. 
 In the next place, they ha'd no right to 
 mortgage it. In the next place, they had no 
 right to encumber it in any way, shape or 
 manner. Now, sir, by the terms of the 
 Enabling Act, we do not get possession of 
 
 this University fund, any more than we get 
 possession of the school fund, tmtil we accept 
 of the provisions of the Enabling Act, and 
 become a State. It never was the intention 
 of Congress to give up their right and au- 
 thority over these lands, until we should 
 become a State. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. Mr. Chaikmax: The 
 lands which were granted by Congress, never 
 have been mortgaged ; there never has been 
 any attempt made to mortgage these lands. 
 Tliat mortgage by which the regents have 
 raised money, is upon those twenty-two acres 
 of the site which they procured by other 
 means outside of the grant of land by Con- 
 gress, and which lies in the city, of Saint 
 Anthony, and upon which, also, this money 
 has been expended. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I beg pardon, Mr. 
 Chairman, if I have stated aaything incor- 
 rectly. I vmderstood the gentleman from 
 Saint Anthony to state, that a certain amount 
 of money was raised upon bond and mortgage, 
 and I took it that it was upon these Univer- 
 sity lands. Now, Mr. Chaibman, I ask that 
 gentleman whether any attempt has been 
 made to encumber those lands ? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Mr. Chaibman: The 
 gentleman fi-om Steele county will recollect 
 that I stated, that money had been raised 
 upon bond and mortgage, but that how, or in 
 what manner, I knew not. It has been first 
 brought to my notice here. I know nothing 
 further about, the mannner in which the 
 money was procured, except that it was 
 authorized by an act of the Legislature. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. At what session was 
 the act passed. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. A year ago last winter. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Then, Mr. Chairman, 
 we wiU have it imderstood, that these lands 
 are not, and are not to be, encumbered by 
 mortgage. But now this does not support 
 the right of the Regents to go on and select 
 the lands. I do not undertake to say what 
 the language of the act of Congress is, but I 
 do say, the Regents went on without authority. 
 
 Mr. SECO MBE. Mr. Chairman : the lands 
 which have been selected, were selected under 
 the act of Congress, setting apart and reserv- 
 ing seventy-two sections for the purpose of 
 the endowment of the University of the Ter- 
 ritory of Minnesota. They have been select- 
 
488 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, August 14. 
 
 ed under the direction of the Secretary of the 
 Interior. By his authority, the Regents have 
 made these selections, and sent on their re- 
 port ; and they have been approved by the 
 Commissioner, and marked upon the maps in 
 the GeneratLand Office. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. If that be true, Mr. 
 Chairman, then the Congress w^ere fools when 
 they passed that act. [Laughter]. I will 
 read, sir, from the second clause of the fifth 
 section of the Enabling Act. 
 
 "Second. That seventy -two sections of land 
 shall be set apart and reserved for the use and 
 support of a State University." 
 
 Not, " have been selected and set apart," 
 nor " to be selected by the Regents," but — 
 " to be selected by the Governor of said State" 
 — the name of an office that had not yet 
 been created ! — 
 
 — " To be selected by the Governor of said State, 
 subject to the approval of the Commissioner of the 
 General Land Office, and to be appropriated and 
 applied in such manner as the Legislature of said 
 State may prescribe for the purpose aforesaid, but 
 for no other purpose." 
 
 Now, Mr. Chairman, I say this Convention 
 have no authority to make any appropriation 
 of these lands, nor to make any location of 
 the University, because by these terms of the 
 Enabling Act, the whole thing is placed in 
 the hands of the Legislature of the proposed 
 State of Minnesota. Mr. Chairman, it may 
 be that these proceedings of the Regents are 
 warrantable and proper ; but I say, if they 
 are, then the Congress of the United States 
 were fools on the 3d of March, 1857. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Mr. Chairman: If I have 
 to correct my friend from Steele county, he 
 will bear with me. He seems to be driving 
 at something, he does not know what exactly. 
 He seems at one time to know that the whole 
 of these seventy-two sections were worth ex- 
 actly $10 an acre. After a while he finds 
 out, that not more than half the lands have 
 been selected. Then again, falling back from 
 the wall he had run against, he staves away 
 at the idea that the lands have been mort- 
 gaged. When it turns out, that the lands 
 have not been mortgaged at all — that it is all 
 waste paper, or something else ; then ho de- 
 clares roundly, that the Regents were exceed- 
 ing their prerogative in selecting and locating 
 the lands : and thereupon he finds that these 
 lands are withdrawn from the market by the 
 
 Secretary of the Interior, and the whole Of 
 this is done under his direction. And when 
 he finds out that the whole has been done 
 under the direction and by the authority of 
 Congress, he suddenly exclaims that the Con- 
 gress must have been a set of fools. 
 
 But, Mr. Chairman, if Congress have been 
 fools, I hope we shall not make fools of our- 
 selves in this matter. 
 
 This is a matter entrusted to the Territory : 
 and the gentleman supposes that this Conven- 
 tion has nothing to do with it. Now, sir, I 
 suppose that this Convention may guide and 
 restrain the Legislature, and restrain and con- 
 trol its action in reference to this matter, as 
 well as anything else. And I hope we shall 
 have sufficient regard for the educational in- 
 terest of the State, to do this thing like men, 
 and not like boys. 
 
 In all this discussion, it would seem as 
 though these grants of land were made for 
 some pecuniary benefit or advantage which 
 this Territory was to derive therefor. One 
 gentleman would have certain towns give so 
 much towards buildings. Now, I suppose, 
 with deference, that it was not the object of 
 these grants, that money should be made out 
 of them for towns and town proprietors ; but 
 that education was the object : and that that 
 should be the thing to which our minds should 
 be directed when we are making laws in re- 
 gard to them. The object is not to compel 
 this or that town to raise all the money they 
 can, but for the purpose of raising up an in- 
 stitution, on a good, substantial basis, that 
 shall educate the people of this country. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. Mr. Chairman: This is a 
 subject of some interest to me. Having spent 
 some portion of my life in connection with 
 such institutions, I have had occasion to no- 
 tice some of the workings and wants of such 
 an institution as this: and it seems to me, 
 that the idea of gentlemen guarding well the 
 integrity of this fund, is very reasonable and 
 proper. I am opposed to specific legislation 
 in the Constitution ; and if this is a case of 
 specific legislation, it is one of the cases of ex- 
 ception wliich I should be prepared to make, 
 I believe the danger is gi'eat, especially in this 
 new Territory, of frittering away the funds of 
 tliis institution in such a manner as almost 
 entirely to lose the benefit of it. We all 
 know enough of the history of such cases ; 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, Acgdst U. 
 
 489 
 
 and how the whole country is encumbered by 
 insignificant colleges. It is certainly possible 
 for us here, to provide well for one institution : 
 and there is nothing we could accomplish that 
 would be more honorable to ourselves. 
 
 Most of the objections to the report that 
 have been stated here, appear to have but Ut- 
 ile relation to the case. They have relation 
 to such questions as, whether St. Anthony 
 has given as liberally toward the University 
 as she might have done : or whether any other 
 town might not have done more : whilst the 
 main point is, how far we ought to provide 
 for the permanancy and stability of the insti- 
 tution, and against all unnecessary and capri- 
 cious modifications. If it were possible for 
 the Convention to provide for an Agricultural 
 College in connection with this institution, it 
 might be more in accordance with the great 
 interests of the State. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. By the act of incorpora- 
 tion, a department of Agriculture is provided 
 for. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. Mr. CnAmjiAN : I did not 
 intend to address the Convention at any 
 length on the subject ; but merely to say, 
 that it is an object of interest to me, and if 
 wisely treated here, will go far toward making 
 a good reputation for this Convention. I 
 hope it is not an exceptionable case of legis- 
 lation. But, if it is, I am prepared to make 
 the exception. I will go to almost any length 
 to prevent the diversion of this fund to the 
 purposes of other institutions, than the 
 more important and useful one we might 
 have, and which it was the object of the 
 grant to confer upon us. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. A stranger in locking 
 upon our discussions, would suppose that 
 some of us were in favor of having a trav- 
 eling locomotive University, upon wheels, to 
 take it where we could get the largest crowd 
 and the most money ; that we were in favor 
 of diverting the grant of Congress, and put- 
 ting it up at auction that any and all placeg 
 might bid for it. Now that is a subversion of 
 the argument. The premises are assumed, 
 but no one has made any such argument. 
 We say this ; the institution has been estab- 
 lished in the Territory ; we believe the fund 
 is much larger than is required for any one 
 institution. If that be the fact, then, we 
 as a Convention ought not to say that the 
 62 
 
 Legislature shall not, in their wisdom, estab- 
 Ush other branches or other Universities of 
 learning. Now is not this view of the sub- 
 ject right? and is not the proposition a cor- 
 rect one, which we make ? Under the Organic 
 Act the United States gives to the Territory 
 of Minnesota two townships of land for the 
 purpose of a University of Minnesota. There 
 is one grant. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The gentleman wiU aUow 
 me to correct him. Congress did not, in the 
 Organic Act, give that. The Territory of 
 Minnesota memorialized for a grant of land. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. It is the same thing; 
 Congress gave the Territory two townships 
 of land. These lands have been selected, 
 and they are now the property of the Univer- 
 sity of Minnesota, while we are a Territory. 
 There, now, is the University fund. 
 
 Under the Enabling Act, which has been 
 referred to so often. Congress proposes to 
 make a further donation to the State of Min- 
 nesota — not to the Territory — to be selected 
 by the Governor of the State — ^not of the 
 Territory — a thing'which is to be done in the 
 future ; thus making two separate donations 
 for two separate purposes — one under the act 
 of Congress, the land of which is located and 
 is the property of the University of the Ter- 
 ritory; and the other, of seventy-two sec- 
 tions, is for a State University. Now -the 
 language of the report of this committee is 
 intended to embrace both subjects. Not only 
 do they embrace that which belongs to the 
 University of Minnesota imder a special law 
 of Congress, dedicated to that purpose, and 
 which has been set apart, and is now their 
 property, but they seem to go further and 
 embrace the other seventy-two sections, and 
 appropriate the same to the use of the same 
 University. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. The gentleman is entirely 
 mistaken, for they mean the same thing pre- 
 cisely, and apply to the same land. The En- 
 abling Act, if I understand it, provides for 
 two school sections in each township, and the 
 University lands too. This provides for the 
 conveyance of the land to the State. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. The gentleman says that 
 Congress means something which they cer- 
 tainly do not say. If the gentleman, by any 
 coiu"se of reasoning, can convince the Con- 
 vention that the two townships of land which 
 
490 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, August 14. 
 
 have been located and are the property of 
 the University — a thing which is past — are 
 the same in the eye of Congress as something 
 which is to be in the future, and given to the 
 State as a State, to be located by the Gover- 
 nor, as the officer of the State 
 
 Mr. NORTH. The bill which granted the 
 seventy-two sections, simply required the 
 Secretary of the Interior to reserve that 
 amount from sale. It did not give the title to 
 the Territory or to the University, but simply 
 reserved them from sale for that purpose, and 
 there is no power here to hold it until we be- 
 come a State. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I have seen the bUl. I 
 do not profess to have a great deal of acute- 
 ness, but it occurs to me that nothing is 
 plainer than that the two grants are not the 
 same, because they are made by diflFerent acts 
 and in diflFerent bodies of lands — the one is 
 done and past, the other is to be done in the 
 future. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The argument of the 
 gentleman from Fillmore wUl require a revis- 
 ion of the argument of the gentleman from 
 Steele county, (Mr. Coggswell,) and he will 
 have to double his figures. The same argu- 
 ment must necessarily apply to the first sub- 
 division of section five of the Enabling Act, 
 which provides for granting to the State for 
 the use of schools sections sixteen and thirty- 
 six of every township. Now under the act 
 organizing this Territory, these same sections 
 sixteen and thirty-six have been set apart 
 and reserved for the use of schools in the 
 Territory. And now here comes Congress 
 again, according to the gentleman's argument, 
 and sets apart those two same sections ; and 
 in case they have been granted and disposed 
 of, then other two sections as nearly contig- 
 uous thereto, as may be, shall be sot apart. 
 Consequently, we get double grants of com- 
 mon school lands. Now the truth is, it is 
 merely carrying out the intended grants 
 which have been promised heretofore. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. When was the first 
 bill passed by Congress ? 
 Mr. SECOMBE. In 1851. 
 The question was then taken on Mr. Wil- 
 son's amendment, and^it was adopted. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM moved to amend the same 
 section by adding thereto the following : 
 
 " Provided, No religious sect shall ever have ex- 
 clusive control of said University." 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I would inquire if the 
 same provision was not incorporated in the 
 article of incorporation ? I do not want to 
 have them have exclusive control, or any 
 control. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM., I suppose that under 
 the act of incorporation, any rule of law in 
 that act of incorporation can be amended or 
 altered by the Legislature at any time. It. 
 strikes me that such a provision should be a 
 fixed law, which the Legislature cannot tam- 
 per with, or alter or amend. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 "Shc. 6. The proceeds of all salt springs and 
 lands adjoining or contiguous thereto, that have 
 been or hereafter may be granted to the State for 
 its use, shall be appropriated to the use of the 
 State, to be used or disposed of on such terms, con- 
 ditions and regulations as the Legislature of the 
 State shall direct, and not otherwise. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER moved to amend by inserting 
 after the words "appropriated to the use," 
 the words " of the common schools." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope that amendment 
 will not prevail. We have one grant certain, 
 if not two, for common schools, and there 
 are other objects in the State which, it seems 
 to me, should be provided for ; and I suggest, 
 if it be specifically appropriated to any use, 
 it should for an insane hospital, rather than 
 to common schools, which have already such 
 a liberal fund. It was left by the committee 
 in the manner in which it was found in the 
 Enabling Act. It was thought best by tlicm 
 to let the Legislature have the disposal of it 
 in such a manner as they thought best. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I hope the amendment will 
 be adopted. I do not believe that our lunatics 
 are going to be so large a number as to need 
 the benefit of such a fund as this wiU be, and 
 I believe furthermore that if the people be 
 educated they will show less signs of insanity 
 than some of them do now. (Laughter.) 1 
 think we cannot augment the common school 
 fund too much nor guard it with too much 
 care. If we are to became a great State we 
 ought to take care that our intellectual advan- 
 tage, are commensurate with the wants of a 
 large population. 
 
 I hope this amendment will bo adopted. 
 It is not without a precedent in other States. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, August 14. 
 
 491 
 
 My impression is that Iowa and Michigan 
 have adopted a similar provision. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I think it would be bet- 
 ter to leave this matter where we find it in 
 the Enabling Act, to the- Legislature. It is 
 very important that the State should establish 
 some institution for the relief of the insane^ 
 the blind, &c. Now, as has been said, we 
 have a very liberal provision for the support 
 of common schools. When that matter was 
 under discussion it was estimated by some 
 gentlemen, whom I suppose competent to 
 make a correct estimate, that the common 
 school fund would be amply sufficient to sup- 
 port our common schools during the greater 
 part of theyear,'in every district of the State. 
 But we have no special provisions for the es- 
 tablishment of any charitable institutions^ 
 and if the Legislature should deem it best to 
 take this grant for that purpose, I think they 
 should have the privilege of doing so. If it 
 shall be found that our school fund is going 
 to be short, and the Legislature think it best 
 for the interest of the whole people, to add 
 this to the school fund, they will have the 
 liberty to do so without any act upon our 
 part. 
 
 Mr. KING. I am wholly at a loss to know 
 what course members are going to pursue. 
 We found a little while ago. that a little more 
 than half of the members of this Convention 
 present were opposed to altering a single letter 
 of the Enabling Act, stating as a reason for it 
 that great inconvenience would arise firom 
 such a course, and now, some of those very 
 members are in favor of altering a specific 
 provision of the Enabling Act. That act has 
 left this matter to the Legislature, and now 
 gentlemen say that this Convention shall ap- 
 propriate it, when Congress has said that the 
 Legislature shall make the appropriation. 
 Now if we can do one thing contrary to the 
 Enabling Act, we can do two things, and we 
 can change our boundaries just as well as we 
 can dispose of these lands. If my friends 
 can make my mind satisfied upon that subject, 
 I will vote with them. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. The matter of the bounda- 
 ries of our future State is one thing, but the 
 disposal of the lands granted to that State 
 under the Enabling-Act is quite another ques- 
 tion. It is one which we are bound to take 
 ^cognizance of; while the former is a question, 
 
 which, it is doubtful whether we have any 
 right to take cognisance of. 
 
 The amendment was not 'agreed to. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I had this morning 
 prepared an amendment to section' two, but I 
 did not ofler it as I desired more time to con- 
 sider the subject. I would call the attention 
 of the Convention to that section and then I 
 will offer an amendment merely with a view 
 of getting it into better shape than it now is. 
 The section relates to escheats and I think the 
 less escheats to the State we have'the better. 
 If I understand that matter, this section does 
 not cover all the ground that I desire it should 
 cover. It provides that "all lands the title 
 "to which shall fail from a defect of heirs 
 " shall revert or escheat to the State." Now 
 I may be wrong, but I think that if a man 
 should die leaving no heirs, this clause would 
 require that his property should revert to the 
 State, even though he had disposed of his 
 property by will, for there is equally a defect 
 of heirs. Suppose a man should make by 
 will a donation of his property, he being heir- 
 less, to some eleemosynary institution, would 
 not this clause cut it off? 
 
 I have not examined the constitutional pre- 
 visions of other States in this respect. Some 
 of the States I know, have no constitutional 
 provisions in regard to this matter. The 
 word "heirs" as it stands here has a fixed 
 and definite meaning. They are that class of 
 persons who receive property by descent from 
 the original proprietors. Devisees may be no 
 relation at all. This word "heirs" is limited 
 in its meaning. It does not include all the 
 kindred. I would have it that when a man 
 dies the last of his race, and has no known 
 kindred in the world, and he makes no will, 
 that the State should be considered as his 
 heir. But as long as his blood runs in human 
 veins, so long should those having that blood 
 be allowed to possess the property, and the 
 Legislature should provide for them. I do 
 not know exactly how to get at the idea which 
 I have in view, but I have embodied it in this 
 language. 
 
 " If any person, who at the time of his or her 
 death, was seized or possessed of aty real or per- 
 sonal property within this State, die intestate, 
 without heirs or any known kindred, such estate 
 or property shall escheat to the State, subject to 
 all legal demands on the same." 
 
 I do not know whether we have made any 
 
492 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Pbidat, August 14. 
 
 provision in the Constitution in reference to 
 personal property. This clause will cover 
 that, and it is well known that some of the 
 wealthiest men in the country have no other 
 property than personal property. Some of 
 the largest estates in the country are in stocks 
 and personality. The section as it stands in 
 the report of the committee, does not apply 
 to that kind of property ; and I think it will 
 be admitted, on all hands, that that should 
 be included. I" oflfer the provision which I 
 have read as a substitute for the last clause 
 of the section. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would ask the gentle- 
 man if, in the case he cites — that of an indi- 
 vidual without heirs, disposing of his property 
 by will— the title would fail ? Would not the 
 title rest in the devisee ? 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Most assuredly. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Then it would not come 
 within the meaning of the words " all lands 
 the title to which shall fail." 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. But then the words 
 " from a defect of heirs" follows, to qualify- 
 that. It is true the title would not fail ; but 
 why not say " from defect of devisees" as 
 well as kindred ? Would this clause now in- 
 clude kindred who are not heirs — distant re- 
 lations ? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would enquire if there 
 are any kindred who are not heirs ? And if 
 heirs do not go both in direct and collateral 
 lines? 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. At the common law 
 that is the rule, but I think that in most of the 
 States, a limit is put to heirship, and they de- 
 fine by legislative enactment what heirship is ; 
 and that property descends to a certain ex- 
 tent and no further — changing the rule of the 
 common law. And the reason given for it is, 
 that difficulties might arise if it were not re- 
 stricted within reasonable limits. The old 
 system, much abused in England, has been 
 done away with in this country, and we have 
 only statutory escheats. I would, before the 
 State should step in and take the property of 
 any individual dying in the State, have it as- 
 certained, as nearly as possible, whether such 
 person has any distant kindred ; and I would 
 go further, and have the Legislature pass a 
 law that children \)y adoption, there being no 
 children of the blood of the parents by adop- 
 tion, should como in as heirs. To give the 
 
 property to the State, to say the least of it, 
 is not desirable. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. The gentleman says that in 
 this country statutory provisions are neces- 
 sary in order that 'escheats should revert to 
 the State. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. That is a general prin- 
 ciple. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Would not escheats, upon 
 the principles of the common law, revert to 
 the State, if there are no heirs ? If so the 
 whole thing would be under the control of the 
 Legislature. I have been looking at this sec- 
 tion, and it seems to me that if there is any- 
 thmg in it, which should be in the Constitu- 
 tion, it should be in the BiU of Rights. If we 
 are going to alter the common law, it would 
 be the most correct course to have it in that 
 place. But it strikes me that the section is 
 entirely unnecessary. Is not the right an 
 inherent property of sovereignty, at any rate ; 
 and would it not exist even without any such 
 provision as this in the Constitution ? And 
 at the common law, would not property to 
 which there were no heirs, escheat to the 
 State? 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. If there is to be any 
 qualification, we should make it broad enough. 
 But I would not object to striking out the 
 whole section. The first section gives to the 
 people the ultimate right to the soil, and, as 
 has been remarked, the Legislature can make 
 such laws in relation to escheats as it thinks 
 proper. I heard a case stated the other day, 
 where an adopted child had lived with its 
 adopted parent all his life, and the parent had 
 always said the child should have his property. 
 The parent was accidentally killed, and left 
 no will. The State is now trying to get that 
 property and will get it. Now the Legisla- 
 ture should have jurisdiction over cases of 
 that kind. The State does not need the prop- 
 erty, and to take it would be an absolute 
 wrong. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Would not the State hJive 
 the right to do justice and equity, and to 
 give the property back to the person to whom 
 it ought to go, imder the power of the right 
 of sovereignty ? 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I do not think it 
 would, and the question is whether the courts 
 would have the right to grant relief. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I did not ask that, but 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fridat, Acgtst 14. 
 
 493 
 
 whether the State would not have the right to 
 give it to whom it equitably belonged, though 
 legally it belonged to the State? 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I think it would, un- 
 der the clause we have inserted. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. As it now stands ? 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I would rather have 
 it modified so as to refer to property the title 
 to which shall fail from any cause rather than 
 simply from a defect of heirs. It certainly 
 does not provide for devisees and distant re- 
 lations. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I agree with the gentle- 
 man from Dakota (Mr. Foster). I do not see 
 the use of this section at all. It makes no 
 new rule and if it is stricken out the Legis- 
 lature will have the power to change the rule 
 of the conunon law if they think proper. It 
 is unnecessary and improper to put into the 
 Constitution a maxim of the common law, or 
 a maxim of any other character. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. In regard to the first part 
 of the section, there seems to be a propriety 
 in having it remain here, even if the last 
 clause be stricken out. "We have declared in 
 the Constitution, in another place, that the 
 Legislatm-e shall never interfere with the pri- 
 mary disposal of the soil, and it would do no 
 harm to declare, at the same time that they 
 have the ultimate property. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I prefer that the first 
 clause of the section should remain as a dec- 
 laration of the principle that the people have 
 the ultimate right of sovereignty when the 
 title fail entirely. 
 
 The amendment of Mr. Galbkaith was 
 then agreed to. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. CLEGHORN, 
 the committee rose and reported to the Con- 
 vention the report and amendments, with a 
 recommendation that the amendments should 
 be conctirred in. 
 
 The question first recurring upon the 
 amendment offered, in committee, by Mr. 
 Galbrajth to the second section — 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE called for a division of the 
 question, so as to take a vote first upon the 
 striking out, and then upon inserting. 
 
 The question was accordingly taken upon 
 striking out all after .the word " State," and 
 it was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I would say, before the 
 vote is taken upon inserting the juuendment 
 
 proposed by the gentleman from Scott county, 
 that if the Convention reject that amendment, 
 the section will stand simply as the first clause 
 reads: 
 
 "The people of the State, in their right of sove- 
 reigntr, are declared to possess the ultimate pro- 
 perty in and to all lands within the jnrLsdiction of 
 the State." 
 
 Now I would prefer to have it so remxiin, 
 and I believe the gentleman from Scott county 
 himself said he would not object to it. 
 
 The question was taken upon inserting the 
 amendment proposed by Mr. GAXBaAiTH, smd 
 it was not agreed to. 
 
 The question next recurred upon the re- 
 conmaendation of the committee to strike out 
 all after the words, " appropriated to the use 
 " and support of" in section four, and insert, 
 " a University and for no other purpose, in 
 " such manner as the Legislature of the State 
 " shall prescribe." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE moved a cafl of tiie Con- 
 vention. 
 
 A call was ordered, and the roU being 
 called the following members failed to answer 
 to their names : 
 
 Messrs. Asdebson, Atkb^ Cedebstam, Da- 
 vis, and Thoipsox. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I understand that Mr. 
 Cedebstam is absent by permission of the 
 committee on Leave of Absence. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. Messrs. Cedebstam, 
 Ateb, and Thompsox, are absent from the 
 city. 
 
 Mr. NORTH moved to dispense with all 
 further proceedings under the call. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. There are some members 
 in the city, who are not present, and I move 
 to reconsider that last vote. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair would sug- 
 gest that the gentleman can more easily ac- 
 complish his object by moving a call of the 
 Convention.' 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I make that motion. 
 
 A call was ordered, and the roll being 
 called the following members fiailed to answer 
 to their names : 
 
 Messrs. Ardbbsos, Ateb, Cedebstah, and 
 Thompson. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER moved that all further pro- 
 ceedings imder the call be dispensed with. 
 
 The motion was ^reed to. 
 
4M 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, August 14. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Is the question open for 
 discussion yet? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. The Sergeant-at-Arms has 
 gone after absent members, not knowing that 
 further proceedings have been suspended, 
 and I want to give him time to "bring them in. 
 
 This is a question which has been troubling 
 our Legislatures every session. Hardly a 
 session has passed since the University was 
 established, but what some question in regard 
 to it has come up in the Legislature. The 
 matter is doubtless an important one, and I 
 think myself that it is very important that 
 the fund should remain intact, and be one 
 fund for one institution. That can hardly be 
 disputed. If we distribute it broadcast over 
 the land, it wUl never do good to anybody ; 
 and whether it is to do good any way, is 
 to be determined in the future. I have not 
 much faith in Universities any where. While 
 I think this institution is located in a pretty 
 central position, and am not disposed, while 
 it is conducted properly and fairly, to remove 
 it from its present position, I may at the same 
 time be permitted to scold a Httle at the man- 
 ner in which the fund has been managed 
 heretofore. I agree with the gentleman from 
 Winona (Mr. Wilson,) that an unnecessarily 
 large building has been erected, and more 
 money expended than is justifiable, in putting 
 up a building, costing forty or fifty thousand 
 dollars, which will not be demanded for years 
 to come ; and when it is demanded, will have 
 become dilapidated in part, and not in as 
 good order as it should be. Now I take it that 
 the idea of cutting up the fund, and scatter- 
 •ing it all over the State is not to be thought of. 
 And as to a removal, although I disapprove 
 of the extravagant expenditure of money 
 heretofore made, I am opposed to it. It re- 
 minds me of a case which occurred during 
 General Jackson's administration, in which a 
 receiver of public money in Mississippi was a 
 large defaulter, and application was made to 
 the President to remove him. The General 
 sought information and advice from the pro- 
 per quarter, and he was advised to allow him 
 to remain, on the ground that he was a pretty 
 fair man — as fair as any that could be got ; 
 and if he was turned out and another put in 
 his place, the other would have to be gorged 
 too ; and the result wovild be that the Treas- 
 
 ury would be robbed twice. He was allowed 
 to remain, and he became a very good ofBcer, 
 and made no further default. 
 
 So, in this case, if you remove the Univer- 
 sity to any other point, they will go to work 
 and put up another large building to orna- 
 ment their town, and expend as much, if not 
 more money. Now we have a building al- 
 ready, and it would be decidedly bad policy to 
 change the location. I think we ought to 
 keep it where it is. Whatever mischief has 
 been done is passed and irretrievable, and the 
 only way now for us is, to go along and look 
 out well for the future. 
 
 Now I am going for this section as origin- 
 ally reported by the committee, and against 
 the amendment for the reason that the orig- 
 inal clause refers to the act of the Legis- 
 lature, and that act gives the Legislature com- 
 plete control over any abuse of the fund, or 
 the institution. It also provides that no re- 
 ligious tenets shall be required of either schol- 
 lar or professor. Under that act, I hope it 
 will be managed in the future in a manner 
 acceptable to the whole State, and that no 
 more money will be expended for the purpose 
 of ornamenting the place. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. I had intended unre- 
 servedly to vote for this amendment, until I 
 heard the knock-down argument of the gen- 
 tleman from Dakota, and I am going to say a 
 few words now to see if I can get my mind 
 settled to the same point again. I under- 
 stand him to assert that the funds have not 
 been used as they ought to have been, and 
 he is decidedly opposed to a removal to anoth- 
 er place from the fact that the same thing 
 would be transacted over again by another 
 set of men, and he thinks we bad better let 
 the first thieves appropriate all to their own 
 advantage. Now I declare to this Conven- 
 tion that that^is an argument which I hardly 
 know how to get over. Supposing that no 
 man would make it who had not some expe- 
 rience in these things, I took it for granted 
 that it must be so. But still, when I look at 
 our action in accepting the Enabling Act, and 
 at its terms, it seems to me that there is lan- 
 guage in this section, as reported by the com- 
 mittee, which I cannot understand. We have 
 accepted the seventy-two sections of land, 
 and we have agreed that the Legislature of 
 Minnesota shall dispose of that land, for the 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, August 14. 
 
 495 
 
 purposes contemplated by the act granting 
 them. Now the gentlemen who are opposed 
 to this amendment do not ask that the Legis- 
 latiu"e shall be deprived of the privilege of 
 legislating upon that subject, because they 
 say that in the Territorial Act there is an ex- 
 press provision made, which allows them to 
 do so. But gentlemen will remember that 
 they ask us to do, what ? not to legislate — 
 for they say we have no power to do that — 
 but they only ask us to say in the Constitu- 
 tion that the acts of the Territorial Legisla- 
 ture shall be confirmed and made binding 
 upon the State. Now that is the whole sum 
 and substance of the thing. We cannot le- 
 gislate, but we can confirm an act of the Ter- 
 ritorial Legislat\u-e. They ask us to make an 
 act of the Territorial Legislature apply and 
 have the same effect and force as an act of the 
 State Legislature ? That is exactly as I un- 
 derstand it. 
 
 Now so far as appropriating this fund to 
 the erection of buildings is concerned, I have 
 nothing to charge upon the people of St. An- 
 thony. I suppose they are honest men up 
 there, and, like a good many other people, 
 they want to make the most of it ; and I do 
 DOt blame them for desiring that the institu- 
 tion shall be permanently located there. 
 But I say they take such views here as they 
 ought not to take when they ask us to give 
 the same force and effect to an act of the Ter- 
 ritorial Legislature, which an act of the State 
 Legislature would have. 
 
 Now I hope it will be left with the State 
 Legislature, and if gentlemen up at St. An- 
 thony had suflBcient influence previous to the 
 location of the institution there, to do what 
 they have done, I have no doubt they wiU 
 have as much influence with future Legisla- 
 tures. I am willing to leave the St. Anthony 
 men to contend with such influences as may 
 be brought to bear from other portions of the 
 State, and I have no doubt they will be able 
 to carry their points as they have heretofore. 
 Therefore, I am decidedly in favor of the 
 amendment proposed by the gentleman from 
 "NVinona, and reported to us from the CMn- 
 mittee of the Whole. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I happen, at the pre- 
 sent time, to be one of the Regents of the 
 University, and it has been intimated here 
 that tk^ Regents had taken upon themselves 
 
 the responsibility of expending rather too 
 much money at St. Anthony. I feel called 
 upon to make a short reply to that assertion, 
 from the fact that the Regents of the Univer- 
 sity have done everything which they have 
 done thus far, without encroaching in the 
 least upon the original grant of Congress. 
 They have not mortgaged the lands granted 
 by Congress, and have given no liens upon 
 them whatever. What has been done by the 
 Regents, has been done by their own personal 
 efforts in the way of obtaining private sub- 
 scriptions, and in other ways managing to get 
 into their hands some means and some pro- 
 perty outside of the grant of Congress. 
 They have obtained the possession of twenty- 
 two acres of land in St. Anthony, which is 
 worth forty or fifty thousand dollars 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Twenty-seven acres, 
 worth not less than fifty thousand dollars. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. Now the Regents have 
 mortgaged that twenty-seven acres of land 
 for some fifteen thousand dollars, and they 
 have commenced the erection of a building, 
 and they must raise upon that building and 
 the land upon which it stands, a sufficient 
 amount of money to complete what they have 
 commenced, without asking any aid from the 
 fund which comes from Congress. In view 
 of that state of facts, I ask what have the 
 Regents done more than they had a right to 
 do, more than would be well for them to do, 
 provided they could do it ? 
 
 Again, this has not been done by St. An- 
 thony, nor by any other town. It has been 
 brought about and accomplished by men who 
 look higher than town sites, I hope, or to the 
 particular pecuniary interest of any town 
 site. It has been done by such men as 
 Henry M. Rice, Ex-Governor Ramsey, Nel- 
 son, Steele, Meeker, Atwater, and many 
 others I might mention. It has been done 
 by the Board as a unit, and |by men who 
 were looking to the proper education of the 
 youth of Minnesota, and who desired an in- 
 stitution which should be a credit to the 
 State. Now when the assertion is made by 
 gentlemen, that the Regents have transcended 
 their powers, and that they have done wrong, 
 I must beg to differ with them entirely. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I desire to say one word 
 in addition to what the gentleman fix)m Wi- 
 nona has said, in relation to the part which 
 
496 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satcrdat, August 16. 
 
 St. Anthony has had in the disposal of the 
 fund used at St. Anthony ; and I will state 
 that until this last- session of the Legislature, 
 there has never been a time when the wishes 
 of St. Anthony have been respected in the 
 election of the Regents of that University. 
 AU powerful, as St. Anthony has been repre- 
 sented to be, upon this floor, yet such has 
 been the fact. They have had to contend 
 against odds, and they have only been per- 
 mitted to have what the people of other parts 
 of the Territory have been pleased to give to 
 them ; and when it has been determined that 
 there might be a Regent elected from St. An- 
 thony, that Regent has not been the choice of 
 St. Anthony itself, but such as the otlier 
 parts of the Territory saw fit to give than. 
 There has always been a struggle upon that 
 point; and the most bitter struggle we have 
 ever had, was that which took place last 
 winter. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move the previous 
 question. 
 
 The previous question was seconded, and 
 the main question ordered to be put. 
 
 Mr. "WILSON called for the yeas and nays 
 upon the amendment. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being taken it was decided in the 
 afiBrmative — yeas 31, nays 25, as follows : 
 
 Teas. — Messrs. Anderson, Baldwin, Billings, 
 Bolles, Butler, Cleghorn, Colburn, Coggswell, 
 Coe, Davis, Duley, Gerrish, Harding, Hudson, 
 Hanson, HoUey, King, Kemp, Lyle, Mantor, 
 McCano, McKune, McClure, Mills, Perkins, Peck- 
 ham, Bobbins, Stannard, Vaughn, Watson, and 
 Wilson.— 31. 
 
 Nays. — Messrs. Aldricb, Bates, Bartholomew, 
 Coombs, Dickerson, Eschlie, Foster, Folsom, 
 Galbraith, Hall, Hayden, Lowe, Messer, Morgan, 
 Murphy, North, Phelps, Putnam, Russell, Se- 
 combe, Smith, Walker, Winell, Sheldon, and Mr. 
 President. — 25. 
 
 So the amendment was agreed to. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. STANNARD, 
 the Convention adjourned. 
 
 THIRTIETH DAY. 
 
 Satubdat, August 15, 1858. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. v. 
 Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. E. D. Neill. 
 The journal of yesterday was read and 
 approred. 
 
 4 
 
 COMPEOMISE PEOCEEDINGS. 
 
 The President laid before the Convention 
 the following communication from the Secre- 
 tary, and the same was ordered to be entered 
 on the journal : 
 
 Constitutional Convbntion, j 
 St. Paul, August 13, 1857. ) 
 Hon. St. A. D. Balcomce, President of the Consti- 
 tutional Convention : 
 
 Sir : — In obedience to instructions contained in 
 a resolution passed by this body on the eleventh 
 instant, I gave into the hands of the Hon. H. H. 
 Siblkt a communication in writing, of which the 
 enclosed are true copies. 
 Respectfully, 
 
 L. A. BABCOCK, Secretary. 
 
 Constitutional Convention, 
 Hall, House op Representatives, 
 St. Paul, August 11, 1857. 
 Hon. H. H. Sibley, Presiding Officer of that por- 
 tion of the Delegates to the Constitutional Con- 
 vention assembled in the Council Chamber of the 
 Capitol : 
 
 Sir : — The Constitutional Convention assembled 
 in the Hall of the House of Representatives, have 
 this day passed the following resolution, viz : 
 
 liesolved. That the Secretary of this Convention 
 is hereby directed to communicate to the pjesiding 
 officer of that portion of the Delegates to the 
 Constitutional Convention assembled in the Council 
 Chamber of the Capitoi an attested copy of tfie 
 Preamble and Resolutions in reference to a Com- 
 mittee of Conference, adopted on the tenth instant, 
 and the official action of tnis Convention thereon. 
 
 I have, therefore, the honor to communicate the 
 enclosed attested Preamble and Resolutions, as 
 the same passed this body on the tenth instant. 
 Respectfully, 
 
 L. A. BABCOCK, 
 Secretary of the Convention. 
 
 PREAMBLE AND RESOLUTIONS. 
 
 Whbeeas, The persons who were elected by the 
 people of this Territory to represent them in a 
 Constitutional Convention, having met at this 
 Capitol on the day appointed by law for such meet- 
 ing, and having disagreed upon some questions 
 which arose in the course of iorming a temporary 
 organization, separated and formed two distinct 
 Conventions, in numbers nearly equal, and are 
 now forming two separate and distinct Constitu- 
 tions, to be presented to the people. 
 
 And Whereas, Proceedings so extraordinary 
 in their character will have a tendency to injure 
 the reputation of our people — to lessen the confi- 
 dence of other States in our integrity, stability 
 and patriotism, and place us in a false position 
 before the world, therefore, 
 
 Besolved, That a Committee of five be appointed 
 by the President of this Convention to center with 
 a Committee of an equal number, if appointed, of 
 the duly elected members of that portion of them 
 who are acting separately from us; and that it 
 shall be the duty of such Committee to consider 
 and agree upon, if practicable, and report some 
 plan by whicn the two bodies can unite upon a 
 eingle Constitution to be submitted to the people. 
 Constitutional Convention, ) 
 Hall, House or Befrssentativbs, \- 
 St. Paul, August 10, 1866. ) 
 
 I hereby certify the foregoing to be a true copy 
 
MINNESOTA CON^TINTION DEBATES— Satcbday, August 15. 
 
 497 
 
 of a Preamble and Resolutions which onanimously 
 passed this body on the tenth instant. 
 
 Attest : L. A. BABCOCK, Secretary. 
 
 Mr. MANX OR, from the committee on 
 Engrossment, reported back as correctly 
 enrolled, Reports numbers twenty and twenty- 
 one, being the Report on the Militia, and the 
 report on Taxation, Finance, and Public Debt. 
 
 FKAL ADJOURXMEST. 
 
 Mr.* NORTH. I move to suspend the rules 
 so far as to enable us to reconsider the vote 
 by which the Convention resolved to adjovun 
 this day. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, two-thirds vot- 
 ing in favor thereof. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I now move to reconsider 
 the vote by which the resolution to-day was 
 adopted. 
 
 The motion to reconsider prevailed. 
 
 The question then recurring on the passage 
 of the resolution as follows : 
 
 "Jiesolved, That this Convention adjourn without 
 day on Saturday the fifteenth instant." 
 
 On motion of Mr. NORTH, the resolution 
 was laid upon the table. 
 
 BEPOBT ON Pr^LIC PROPEBTT. 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. K it is in order now to 
 move to reconsider the vote by which, last 
 evening, the amendment offered by Mr. 
 WiLsox to the fourth section of the report on 
 Public Property, was adopted, I desire to 
 make that motion. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move that there be a 
 call of the Convention. 
 
 A call was ordered, and the roll being 
 called, Messrs. Ateb, Cedebstam, Fosteb, 
 HoLLET, Kemp, Lyle, Messeb and Thomp- 
 TON, failed to answer to their names. 
 
 The PRESIDENT announced that Messrs. 
 Cedebstam, Ateb and TnoiiPSON were ex- 
 cused from attendance. 
 
 Mr. McKUNE moved that all further pro- 
 ceedings under the call be dispensed with. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD demanded the yeas and 
 nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 roll being called, it was decided in the afiSrm- 
 ative, yeas thirty-one, nays eighteen, as 
 follows : 
 
 Yeas — Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Baldwin, Bil- 
 lings, Butler, Cleghorn, Colbnm, Coggswell, 
 Coe, Davis, Duley, Dickerson, Galbraith, Gerrish, 
 Harding, Hudson, Hanson, Holley, King, Lowe, 
 63 
 
 Mantor, McCann, McKune, McClure, Mills, North, 
 Perkins,' Peckham, Smith, Watson, and Wilson. 
 
 JS'ai/s — Messrs. Bates, Bartholomew, Coombs, 
 Eschlie, Folsom, Hayden, Morgan, Murphy, 
 Phelps, Putnam, Robbins, Russell, Stannard, Shel- 
 don, Secombe, Taughn, Walker, and President. 
 
 So all further proceedings under the call 
 were dispensed with. 
 
 The question then recurred upon the recon- 
 sideration of the vote by which the amend- 
 ment was concurred in. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. This is a matter of 
 very considerable importance, and I do feel 
 that gentlemen should not act hastily, and 
 put this matter in reference to the University 
 beyond the chance of examination. If this 
 body refuses to reconsider that vote, then, so 
 far as the action of this Convention is con- 
 cerned, it is fixed. Now for one I am not 
 disposed to incorporate into this Constitution 
 any legislation which is calculated to benefit 
 this particiilar locality or that. But, sir, the 
 benefit of a system of government for any 
 subject, depends, in a great measure, upon its 
 stability and continuance. I am not disposed 
 to leave this University question so open — as 
 is proposed by the amendment adopted 
 yesterday — that every Legislature of the 
 State of Minnesota may use it for such pur- 
 poses as will advance their own interests, 
 and in the end render useless tha grant of 
 the United States to this Territory, for the 
 purposes for which it was intended. 
 
 Mr. V^ILSON. I rise to a point of order. 
 I would like to hear my friend's ai^ument 
 upon this matter, but I think the question is 
 not now before the Convention. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The question is upon 
 the motion to reconsider. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. Mr. Pbesidext: I am 
 not disposed to violate any rule of the Con- 
 vention, but I do want to urge upon the mem- 
 bers of this Convention that they should not 
 act too hastily upon this matter : that they 
 should give it due reflection ; and I ask the 
 gentleman who made the motion to reconsider 
 to withdraw it, out of courtesy to this body, 
 so that members may have time to reflect 
 upon this matter. I am aware that it was 
 local feeling which induced that amendment, 
 and I am not prepared to say but what it is 
 just ; but I do not wish to record my vote upon 
 it imtil I have' had time to examine it further. 
 I want to examine the Enabling Act, and I 
 
498 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satubd at, August 15. 
 
 want to get a copy of the original act of Con- 
 gress which reserves seventy-two sections, 
 and see whether it harmonizes with the En- 
 abling Act. I do not want to act hastily, nor 
 do I want the members of this Convention to 
 act hastily upon a matter which many of them 
 confess they do not understand. As a mat- 
 ter of courtesy, then, I ask the gentleman to 
 withdraw his motion and let the matter re- 
 main as it is for the present. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the motion to re- 
 consider will prevail, and that the vote will be 
 reconsidered, and the amendment not agreed 
 to. If it should be reconsidered, I propose to 
 ofifer a substitute for the section. If that is 
 not satisfactory I propose to offer another ; 
 and I propose to offer substitute after substi- 
 tute, in various forms to see if this Convention 
 will not, in some manner, dispose of the lands 
 which were set apart by Congress for the 
 benefit of that University. I hope the motion 
 to reconsider will prevail, although I am per- 
 fectly well aware that the gentleman who 
 made the motion, did not make it for the pur- 
 pose of having it prevail, but for the purpose 
 of clinching, as he supposes the effect will be, 
 the amendment which was adopted yesterday. 
 But the gentleman will fail in his purpose. 
 The effect of his motion will only be to amend 
 section four as it now stands in the report, in 
 a certain manner ; but after that, as I under- 
 stand, a substitute as further amended will 
 be in order to the whole section as amended. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is the opinion of 
 the Chair that it will be in order to offer a 
 substitute for the whole section as amended. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. That being so, I care 
 not particularly whether gentlemen see fit to 
 refuse to reconsider the vote which they took 
 yesterday by which they — 
 
 Mr. "WILSON. I rise to a point of order. 
 Is not this a little like the Dred Scott decision 
 — deciding something which is not before the 
 Convention? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. If the gentleman will 
 have a little regard for the rules of this Con- 
 vention, ho will keep his scat while gentlemen 
 are speaking perfectly in order to the ques- 
 tion. I am speaking to the motion of the 
 gentleman from Waseca county, upon_ the 
 motion to reconsider a certain vote ; and I say 
 I care not greatly whether it is reconsidered 
 or not. I prefer rather that it should be, and 
 
 I decidedly prefer that the section shall be 
 left as it stood yesterday previous to the adop- 
 tion of that amendment. 
 
 But I say, whether it is or not. I propose 
 to offer a substitute, and if it does not meet 
 the wishes of the Convention, I propose to 
 ascertain if any substitute can be offered 
 which will meet with their approval, and as- 
 certain whether they are, or are not in favor 
 of carrying out the contract which has been 
 made by Congress. 
 
 I propose at this time, while I am upon 
 this subject, to read the act of Congress of 
 February 19th, 1851, upon this subject. 
 
 "Skc. 2. And be it further Enacted, That the 
 Secretary of the Interior be and he hereby is au 
 thorized and directed to set apart and reserve from 
 sale out of the public lands within the Territory of 
 Minnesota to which the Indian title has been or 
 may be extinguished, and not otherwise appro- 
 priated a quantity of land not exceeding two entire 
 townships for the use and support of a University 
 in said Territory and for no other use and purpose 
 whatever, to be located in legal subdivisions of not 
 less than one entire section." 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I ask the gentleman 
 to read the first section. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I propose to read such 
 sections only as have any reference to the 
 subject. The first section has no reference 
 to the subject whatever. It has reference to 
 school lands in Oregon and Minnesota. Now 
 it appears that in February, 1851, the Con- 
 gress of the United States enacted that the 
 Secretary of the Interior should set apart and 
 reserve from sale, out of the public lands in 
 this Territory not otherwise appropriated, for 
 the use and support of a University in the 
 Territory of Minnesota a quantity not exceed- 
 ing two townships which shall be located by 
 legal subdivision of not less than one section 
 in a place. Now that is in fact a grant of 
 land. The grant is not perfected, but that 
 land, as was stated in this Convention yes- 
 terday, has been, under the direction of the 
 Secretary of Interior, partly and actually lo- 
 cated and approved by liim, and set apart and 
 reserved for, what? — for a University in the 
 Territory. 
 
 Now," Mr. President, the Territory of Min- 
 nesota, by an act of its Territorial assembly, 
 have incorporated the University of Minneso- 
 ta, and they have given a pledge of their sol- 
 emn enactment tliat this land which was 
 granted by Congress to the Territory, should 
 
MEsXESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Saturday, Acgcst 15. 
 
 499 
 
 be devoted exclusively to that University of 
 Minnesota. And I ask of this Convention if 
 they are willing to violate the solemn pledge 
 of the Legislature of the Territory in a mat- 
 ter in which the Territory alone is interested 
 — because the grant is for the support of a 
 University in the Territory '? I leave it for 
 gentlemen to decide for themselves whether it 
 is the intention of Congress, in the Enabling 
 Act, to set apart and reserve any other two 
 townships of land or whether it is merely th<* 
 completion of the same grant. But this I do 
 say, that Congress has granted and set apart 
 two townships of land for the benefit of a 
 University in the Territory. The Territory 
 itself has appropriated that land to the use 
 of a University which they have incorporated. 
 And what I say is that this Convention should 
 not break over and violate an act of the Leg- 
 islature upon the subject. I will read for in- 
 formation the section I propose to offer as a 
 substitute, if the vote is reconsidered. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I rise to a point of 
 order. If I recollect right, this Convention 
 adopted a rule that no member of this Con- 
 vention should speak but once upon any 
 proposition which may come before the Con- 
 vention, and only a certain number of minutes. 
 I recollect distinctly I opposed that rule. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The gentleman has 
 spoken fifteen minutes, and if the gentleman 
 &x)m Steele insists upon the point of order, 
 the chair will have to enforce the rule. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I do. 
 
 Mr. WILSON, I imderstood the gentle- 
 man to allude to me as making the motion to 
 reconsider. He does me honor overmuch in 
 so doing. It is my friend (Mr. McKcxe) upon 
 my right who deserves the honor of that, 
 though I am with him heartily. Now as to 
 this being a local matter as stated by my 
 friend from Chisago (Mr. Stasxard), I deny 
 that it is local, so far as the friends of this 
 amendment are concerned ; or if it be local, 
 it is local with a large part of the Territory. 
 True it is local, if taken in comparison with 
 the United States, because it is a territorial 
 matter. But if taken in connection with the 
 Territory, I say it is not local. The local 
 feeling is all upon the other side. Take the 
 votes and see. Now when we have agreed 
 and settled this matter, I do not want our 
 friends who voted for this amendment, to have 
 
 a tacit insult offered to them by saying they 
 wUl change their votes to-day. Other gentle- 
 men may change, but I do not think any 
 friend of this amendment will. Here a gen- 
 tleman gets up and gives notice that he will 
 offer amendment after amendment and sub- 
 stitute after substitute. It is not the way to 
 treat reasonable men, by threatening to drive 
 them into a matter. Our friend from Chisago, 
 (Mr. Stasxabd) who spoke upon this subject 
 this morning, voted the other way last night, 
 and I supposed, then, he did so, that he might 
 move to reconsider himself sometime; and 
 now I have no doubt about it. 
 
 As to springing a trap upon this matter, I 
 would ask who called the previous question 
 the other day upon a certain motion ? "Who 
 did if? The gentleman who does not want 
 us to do so here — I believe it was. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. What question was 
 it on? 
 
 Mr. WILSON. The question of leaving to 
 the people the question of boundary lines. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. No sir, I did not caU 
 the previous question. 
 
 Jlr. WILSON. Then if I am mistaken, 
 it was one in that same crowd. It was one 
 of the same sort. I may be mistaken as to 
 the particular gentieman. Now sir, we dis- 
 cussed this question yesterday until there was 
 no persoij last night seeking the floor upon it, 
 and the only groimd of keeping this matter 
 before us any longer is to spend time, and 
 tire gentiemen out, or scare them into for- 
 warding the wishes of certain gentiemen here. 
 That was the way gentieman were scared the 
 other day I beUeve, but I do not believe they 
 will be scared upon this subject. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I have only a word to say 
 upon this matter. I do protest against some 
 of the remarks of the gentieman from Wino- 
 na, with all due respect to that gentieman. I 
 protest against the taunts and flings and 
 sneers of that gentieman against those who 
 happen to differ with him on questions before 
 this Convention. It is not respectful to throw 
 out flings and inunendoes that there was not 
 good faith, nor honesty of purpose in the gen- 
 tleman from Chisago moving to reconsider, 
 and voting as he did upon another occasion. 
 But the gentieman from Winona happens to 
 be mistaken and he charges tiie gentleman 
 from Chisago with a motion which I made 
 
500 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satuedat, August 15. 
 
 myself. When the gentleman from Chisago 
 denied having made the motion, the gentleman 
 acknowledged that he was mistaken, but said 
 it was "one of that crowd" or "one of the 
 same sort," as though there were a class of 
 persons here acting in bad faith, and from in- 
 sincere purposes. Now I protest against that 
 style of remark. I see no reason for it. Gen- 
 tlemen have a right to move to reconsider, and 
 they are entitled to be treated with respect 
 upon this side as well as upon the other. 
 
 A word in reference to his long train of re- 
 marks about keeping this question up, after it 
 has once been settled. Is the gentleman's 
 memory so short that he does not remember 
 how many times that question of boundary 
 was brought up, and pressed by that very gen- 
 tleman himself after we all supposed it had 
 been settled ? Now if he could be indulged 
 in all that, he should be the last man .to com- 
 plain he should not be satisfied with the man- 
 ner in which we may settle this question. 
 Now there are persons having very deep feel- 
 ings in regard to this University question. It 
 is a question of magnitude and importance. 
 If they have feeling upon it, it is not at all 
 strange or singular. If they want our action 
 reconsidered it seems to me that it is their 
 right to move to do so, and their right to have 
 gentlemanly treatment from members differ- 
 ing with them. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. It has got to be a little too 
 common recently — 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I call the gentleman to 
 order. The gentleman has spoken once. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The point of order is 
 a good one, if the gentleman himself or any 
 other member desires to speak. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move the previous 
 question. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Will the gentleman give 
 me permission to make an explanation ? That 
 remark about ungentlemanly conduct has been 
 made several times. 
 
 Mr. COGGS WELL. WeU, I withdraw my 
 motion. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. If no other gentleman 
 desires the floor, the gentleman from Winpna 
 will proceed. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I remarked that the gen- 
 tleman from Chisago, (Mr. Stannabu) voted 
 last night on the side of the question to which 
 he was opposed, for tlic purpose of moving a 
 
 reconsideration. I do not suppose there is a 
 gentleman in this Hall who wUl deny it or 
 doubt it. As to its being unmanly to make 
 any such remark, I see nothing exceptionable 
 in it, and the accusation of the gentleman 
 from Rice County (Mr. North) is one which 
 I think is not well founded. As to my ac- 
 cusing any person of making a motion which 
 was made by that gentleman, I did not do so. 
 The motion to which I referred was made by 
 the gentleman from Hennepin County (Mr. 
 Aldeich). 
 
 The gentleman from Rice did not have 
 anything whatever to do with it. 
 
 Mr. BATES. The charge of being influ- 
 enced by sectional feehngs, comes with a bad 
 grace from the gentleman from Winona. When 
 the question- was introduced here by the 
 gentleman from St. Anthony, (Mr. Secombe) 
 a few days ago, that gentleman said that were 
 that institution located at Winona, he would 
 go for it, and now we are charged here with 
 being influenced by sectional feelings. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Who ever heard me say 
 that? 
 
 Mr. BATES. There are gentlemen here 
 who heard it. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. If I ever said it, I must 
 have said it in sport. But I do not recollect 
 of saying any such thing, and I do not believe 
 I ever did. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I am responsible and 
 hold myself responsible to my constituents 
 for all the votes I cast. Gentlemen know very 
 well what position I have held upon this mat- 
 ter. A few days ago when the gentleman 
 from St. Anthony (Mr. Secosibe,) offered an 
 amendment relating to this subject, to another 
 report which was then under consideration, 
 I opposed it, raising the objection that that 
 amendment was not carrying out the provis- 
 ions of the act incorporating the University, 
 and I thought it was improper for this Con- 
 vention to take any other course than to carry 
 out that act. Now here is a section in this 
 bOl, which the gentleman from Winona moves 
 to strike out, wliich he knows accords very 
 well with my feeUngs expressed at that time. 
 
 Mr. CLEGIIORN. I move the 'previous 
 question. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. The yeas and nays 
 have been ordered upon the motion to recon- 
 sider, and the President cannot entertain any 
 
MIN^^:SOTA convention debates— Sattodat, ArGUST 15. 
 
 601 
 
 other motion after that, except it be for a call 
 of the convention. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I move that there be a call 
 of the Convention. 
 
 A call was ordered, and the roll being called, 
 the following members Ailed to answer to their 
 names: 
 
 Messrs. Ater, Cedebstaji, Foster, Gal- 
 BRAiTH, Hall, Lyle, Perktss and Thompson. 
 
 Mr. COGGS^TILL moved that all further 
 proceedings under the call be dispensed with. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. On that motion I caU 
 for the yeas and nays. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being taken, it was decided in the 
 negative — yeas twenty-three, nays twenty- 
 seven, as follows : 
 
 Teax. — Messrs. Baldwin, Billings, Butler, Cleg- 
 horn, Colbum, Coggswell, Duley, Dickerson, Grer- 
 rish, Harding, Hudson, Hanson, HoUey, King, 
 McKune, Kemp, Mantor, ilcCann, McClure, Mills, 
 Peckham, Bobbins and Wilson. — 2-3. 
 
 Nays. — Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Bates, Bar- 
 tholomew, BoUes, Coombs, Eschlie, Folsom, Hall, 
 Hayden, Lowe, Messer, Morgan, Murphy, North, 
 Phelps, Putnam, Russell, Stannard, Sheldon, Se- 
 combe. Smith, Vaughn, Walker, Winell, Watson 
 and Mr. President. — 27. 
 
 The Sergeant-at-arms was directed to re- 
 port the absentees in their seats. 
 
 Mr. "WATSON moved to reconsider the 
 vote by which the Convention refused to sus- 
 pend all further proceedings under the call. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN called for the yeas and nays 
 upon that motion. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being taken, it was decided in the 
 negative — yeas twenty-six, nays twenty-sLsr, 
 as follows : 
 
 Teas. — Messrs. Anderson, Baldwin, Billings, 
 Butler, Cleghorn, Colbum, Coggswell, Davis, 
 Duley, Gerrish, Harding, Hudson, Hanson, Holley, 
 King, Kemp, Lowe, Mantor, McCann, McClure, 
 Mills, Peckham, Bobbins, Stannard, Watson and 
 Wilson.— 26. 
 
 Nays. — Messrs, Aldrich, Bates, Bortholemew, 
 BoUes, Coombs, Dickerson, Eschlie, Folsom, Gal- 
 braith. Hall, Hayden, McKune, Messer, Morgan, 
 Murphy, North, Phelps, Putnam, Russell, Sheldon, 
 Secombe, Smith, Vaughn, Walker, Winell and Mr. 
 President. — 26. 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. I move that the Conven- 
 tion adjoimi without day. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I rise to a question of 
 of order. No motion is in order now but a 
 simple motion to adjourn. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The point of order is 
 a good one. 
 
 Mr. STAN"NARD moved (at 10 o'clock and 
 20 minutes) that the Convention adjourn. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD proceeded to make a 
 remark upon the motion, but was loudly 
 called to order by many members. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. A motion to adjourn 
 is not debatable. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I only wished to say 
 if the Convention refuses to adjourn on this 
 motion, we may have to sit here all night. 
 
 The motion to adjourn was lost. 
 
 After an interval of half an hour. 
 
 The Sergeant-at-arms reported all the ab- 
 sentees who were in the city, in their seats, 
 except Mr. Lyle, who was sick. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move that all further 
 proceedings under the call be dispensed with. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I rise to a point of 
 order. My idea is^hat a motion of that kind 
 is not in order at this time. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair is of opin- 
 ion that some other business having been 
 transacted since that motion was made before, 
 it is now in order. A motion to adjourn has 
 been made and lost, and a report has been 
 received from the Sergeant at-arms. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and all further 
 proceedings under the caU were dispensed 
 with. 
 
 The question recurring upon the motion to 
 reconsider, 
 
 The question was put, and it was decided 
 in the negative — yeas twenty-five, nays twen- 
 ty-eight, as follows : 
 
 Yeas. — Messrs. Aldrich, Bates, Bartholemew, 
 Coombs, Eschlie, Foster, Folsom, Gralbraith, Hall, 
 Hayden, Lowe, Messer, Morgan, Murphy, North, 
 Putnam, Russell, Stannard, Sheldon, Secombe, 
 Smith, Vaughn, Walker, Winell and Mr. Preai 
 dent.— 25. 
 
 Nays. — Messrs. Anderson, Baldwin, Billings, 
 BoUes, Butler, Cleghorn, Colbum, Coggswell, Da- 
 vis, Duley, Dickerson, Gerrish, Harding, Hud- 
 son, Hanson, Holley, King, Kemp, Mantor, Mc- 
 Cann, McClure, Mills, Phelps, Perkins, Peckham, 
 Bobbins, Watson and Wilson. — 28. 
 
 So the motion to reconsider was lost. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE offered the following sub- 
 stitute for section fom*. 
 
 Sec. 4r. The proceeds of all lands set apart and 
 reserved by and under the act of Congress, ap- 
 proved February 19, 1851, for the use and support 
 of the University in the Territory of Minnesota, 
 
502 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 15. 
 
 shall be a perpetual fund to be called "The Uni- 
 versity Fund," which shall be appropriated to the 
 use and support of " The University of Minne- 
 sota;" and the location of the said University 
 under existing laws is hereby confirmed." 
 
 Mr. EOBBINS. I move the previous 
 question. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I had the floor, and I 
 claim that the previous question cannot be 
 moved while I am upon the floor. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is the opinion of the 
 Chair that after the gentleman made his mo- 
 tion for the adoption of the substitute, and it 
 was seconded — that he did not again address 
 the Chair to make any remarks, and hence 
 that the motion for the previous question is in 
 order. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The only reason was that 
 I was obliged to leave my seat to carry my 
 substitute to the Secretary, yet I retained my 
 position on the floor. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair, as a mat- 
 ter of course, was unable to know what were 
 the gentleman's intentions. He offered a 
 substitute. It was read and immediately 
 thereafter the previous question was moved 
 and seconded. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I caU for the yeas and 
 nays upon the previous question. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered. 
 
 Mr, DAVIS moved a call of the Con- 
 vention. 
 
 A call was refused. 
 
 The question was then taken, and it was 
 decided in the negative — yeas twenty-four, 
 nays twenty -nine, as follows : 
 
 Feas. — Messrs. Baldwin, Billings, BolleSj^ Butler, 
 Colburn, Coggswell, Coe, Davis, Duley, Dicker- 
 son, Gerrish, Harding, Hudson, Hanson, Holley, 
 King, Kemp, Mantor, McClure, Mills, Peckham, 
 Robbin.s, Watson, and Wilson. — 24. 
 
 JVai/8. — Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Bates, Bar- 
 tholomew, Cleghorn, Coombs, Eschlie, Foster, 
 Folsom, Galbraith, Hall, Hayden, Lowe, McCann, 
 Messer, Morgan, Murphy, North, Phelps, Perkins, 
 Putnam, Russell, Stannard, Sheldon, Secombe, 
 Smith, Walker, Winell, and the President.— 29. 
 
 So the motion was refused. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The substitute which I 
 have offered for the section, as it now stands 
 amended, provides for the land which has 
 been set apart and reserved by the act of 
 Congress passed in 1851, jvhich is a quantity 
 not exceeding two townships, which, by the 
 provisions of that act, was to be set apart and 
 
 reserved by the Secretary of the Interior for 
 the use and support of a University in the 
 Territory of Minnesota, and for no other use 
 or purpose whatever. That land has been 
 actually, partly located under the direction of 
 the Secretary of the Interior, and is reserved 
 and taken out of the lands which are subject 
 to sale, and remains University lands. The 
 Territorial Legislature of this Territory 
 passed an act the same year, by which the 
 proceeds of that land were ordered to be 
 kept in a perpetual fund and appropriated to 
 the use and support of the University of 
 Minnesota, incorporated by an act passed 
 that year. Under the provisions of that act, 
 the Regents of the University of Minnesota 
 have been recognized by the Secretary of the 
 Interior and been authorised by him to select 
 lands throughout the Territory under the 
 provisions of the act of Congress ; and the 
 selections made by them have been passed 
 by him. Under the provisions of these acts 
 — the act of Congress, and the act of the 
 Territorial Legislature of this Ten'itory — this 
 University has been in actual existence, and 
 has been in operation for the last six years. 
 By the terms of the act of the Legislature, 
 the Territory of Minnesota, which was the 
 recipient of that grant, pledged its solemn 
 faith to the University of Minnesota that the 
 proceeds of this land shall be a perpetual 
 fund for its use. It has also located that in- 
 stitution at or near the Falls of St. Anthony ; 
 and under and by the provisions of these 
 acts of Congress and of the Territorial As- 
 sembly of this Territory, there have been 
 erected buildings, and, as I stated before, the 
 University has been in regular process of 
 advancement, and has been under the regula- 
 tions which were imposed upon it by the Ter- 
 ritory of Minnesota, according to the Territo- 
 rial Act, which is subject, at any time to al- 
 teration, amendment, modification or repeal. 
 Now what I ask of gentlemen of the Conven- 
 tion is, that they will regard the sacredness 
 of compacts. I trust no gentleman who 
 holds a seat in this Convention would wish to 
 disregard that. I ask that it may be done at 
 this time in order that the matter may be put 
 upon a permanent basis, so that the Legisla- 
 ture of the State may not be called upon ev- 
 ery session to make a further disposition of 
 this matter. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Sattjmay, Acgcst 15. 
 
 503 
 
 Objections have been made by gentlemen 
 upon this floor to the section as it now stands, 
 and as it stood before it was amended by the 
 motion of the gentleman from Winona, on 
 the ground that it appropriated, not only all 
 the lands that hare been granted, but also all 
 that should be granted hereafter or set apart 
 and reserved, to the University of Minnesota. 
 It has been contended by some gentlemen — 
 with what degree of plausibility I leave to the 
 Convention to determine — that Congress had 
 provided for two grants, that the grant men- 
 tioned in the Enabling Act was a dififerent one 
 from the grant mentioned in the act of Febru- 
 ary, 1851, and, consequently, that there were 
 four townships intended; that two were in- 
 tended for the Territorial University, and two 
 intended for the State University. If that be 
 the case, Mr. Presidext, the substitute which 
 I propose does not affect the two which are 
 mentioned as granted to the State University ; 
 and if gentlemen here, who have opposed this 
 section as it was originally reported by the 
 committee, upon the ground that the fund is 
 going to be too large — taking the view of it 
 taken by the gentleman from Fiilmore county 
 (Mr. BiLLiXGS,) — will look at this substitute, 
 they will see that there are left, subject to 
 the entire disposal of the Legislature, two en- 
 tire townships of land to be appropriated to 
 another University hereafter to be incorpora- 
 ted and located as the people of the State 
 may desire. 
 
 I trust then that this matter will be consid- 
 ered calmly and without reference to any par- 
 ticular locality. It is true, inevitably true, 
 that those members of this Convention who 
 repr^ent the immediate locality of the Uni- 
 versity of Minnesota feel perhaps a greater 
 interest, may perhaps feel even a different in- 
 terest, and naturally would feel a different 
 interest, from those representing other locali- 
 ties. But I trust th'ey will have the credit 
 for feeling, at the same time, an interest 
 which should be the common interest of ev- 
 ery member of this Convention — that the 
 University of Minnesota, as it exists under 
 the acts I have mentioned, shall carry out the 
 objects for which it was intended. 
 
 The propriety of dividing up that fund has 
 been fully discussed here. It is well under- 
 stood that the provisions of the act of the 
 Territorial Legislature are, that the Regents, 
 
 if they deem it expedient, may receive into 
 connection with the University any College 
 in the Territory, upon application to the 
 Board of Trustees, and such Colleges shall 
 be subject to the visitation of the Regents. 
 The substitute proposed by me, does not pro- 
 pose to alter that in the least respect. Gen- 
 tlemen have said upon the floor, that they did 
 not wish to alter it. Gentlemen have denied 
 any intention or desire either to divide up 
 the fund otherwise than mentioned in the act 
 of incorporation, or to remove its locality. I 
 ask, then, gentlemen to give this matter a 
 candid consideration, and let it be disconnect- 
 ed with — 
 
 Mr. "WILSON. I rise to a point of order. 
 The gentleman has spoken fifteen minutes. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The gentleman is mis- 
 taken. I took pains to note the clock myself 
 on this occasion, so that the question might 
 not be sprung upon me. I trust no Unes 
 win be drawn here upon locality. I hope no 
 gentleman will say here that because certain 
 gentlemen have seen fit to vote upon other 
 questions as they thought their duty impelled 
 them to do, therefore they wUl vote against 
 them upon this question. Let us look upon 
 this in its true light, as members of the Con- 
 vention representing the future State of Min- 
 nesota. If it is so looked upon, I believe 
 some substitute will be adopted for the sec- 
 tion as it now stands, which will permanently 
 recognize the contract which has been made 
 by. the Territory of Minnesota in regard to the 
 fund which was granted to the Territory of 
 Minnesota. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I move that this re- 
 port and pending amendments be laid upon 
 the table until Monday next at half past two 
 o'clock. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I should like to know 
 the gentleman's reasons, for that motion. If 
 there is any good reason I should not object 
 to it, but I cannot see why we cannot con- 
 sider it to-day as well as then. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. There are many good 
 reasons. It is apparent to every one that 
 very great feeling exists upon this subject 
 Members want time to consider this question, 
 to see if some*measiu*es cannot be adopted to 
 meet the diflBculties in the case. 
 
 Mr. MLTIPHY. I hope the motion will 
 
504 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 17. 
 
 prevail. There appears to be a great deal of 
 feeling and excitement about this matter. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 And then, on motion;of Mr. MANTOR, (at 
 eleven o'clock) the Convention took a recess 
 mitil half past two o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 The Convention was called tq order at half 
 past two o'clock. 
 
 STATE SEAL AND COAT OF AEMS. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I would enquire what dis- 
 position was made of the report on the State 
 Seal? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is lying upon the 
 table. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. Has it been considered 
 in committee of the Whole ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It has, and the ques- 
 tion on it, is upon ordering it to be engrossed 
 for a third reading. 
 
 Mr. BATES. Has it been considered in 
 Convention, and were any amendments made 
 to it? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. There was one amend- 
 ment proposed and adopted by the Conven- 
 tion. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I move that the report be 
 taken from the table and be ordered to be en- 
 grossed for a third reading. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the report 
 was ordered to be engrossed. 
 
 PREAMBLE AND BILL OF RIGHTS. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I move that report Num- 
 ber one, upon the Preamble and Bill of Rights, 
 a printed engrossed copy of which lies upon 
 our desks, be now taken up, and read a third 
 time and put upon its passage. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The report on the Preamble and Bill of 
 Rights was accordingly taken up, read a third 
 time and passed. 
 
 BANKING CORPORATIONS, AC. 
 
 On motion of Mr. SECOMBE, engrossed 
 report number five, on Banking and Corpo- 
 rations other than Municipal, was taken from 
 the table, read a third time and passed. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. FOSTER, (at 
 three o'clock) the Convention adjourned until 
 Monday next. 
 
 THIRTY-FIRST DAY. 
 
 Monday, August 17th, 1857. 
 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. m. 
 
 Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. E. D. Neill. 
 
 The Journal of Saturday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR, from the committee on En- 
 grossment, reported back, as correctly en- 
 grossed, report number seventeen, on the 
 State Seal and Coat of Arms. 
 
 SCHEDULE. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER, fropi the committee on the 
 Schedule, made the following report : 
 
 " Section 1. That no inconvenience may arise 
 by reason of a change from a territorial to a per- 
 manent State government, it is declared, that all 
 rights, actions, judgments, claims and contracts, 
 as well of individuals as of bodies corporate, shall 
 continue as if no such change had taken place, and 
 all process which may be issued under the author- 
 ity of the Territory of Minnesota, previous to the 
 organization of the State government, shall be as 
 valid as if issued in the name of the State. 
 
 " Sec. 2. All laws now in force in the Territory 
 of Minnesota, which are not repugnant to thisCon- 
 stitutiofl, shall remain in force until they expire 
 by their own limitation, or are altered or repealed 
 by the Legislature. 
 
 "Sec. 3. All fines, penalties or forfeitures ac- 
 cruing to the Territory of Minnesota, shall enure 
 to the use of the State. 
 
 "Sec. 4. All recognizances heretofore taken, 
 or which may be taken before the change from a 
 territorial to a permanent State government, shall 
 remain valid, and shall pass to, and may be pros- 
 ecuted in the name of the State ; and all bonds 
 executed to the Governor of the Territory, or to 
 any other officer or court in his or their official ca- 
 pacity, shall pass to the Governor or other ^ate 
 authorities and their successors in office, for tho 
 uses therein respectively expressed, and may be 
 sued for and recovered accordingly ; and all the 
 estate or property, real, personal or mixed, and all 
 judgments, bonds, specialties, choses in action, 
 and claims or debts of whatsoever description, of 
 the Territory of Minnesota, shall enure to and 
 vest in the State of Minnesota, and maj be sued 
 for and recovered in the same manner and to the 
 same extent, by the State of Minnesota, as the 
 same could have been by the Territory of Minne- 
 sota. All criminal prosecutions and penal actions 
 which may have arisen, or which may arise before 
 the change from a territorial to a State govern- 
 ment, and which shall then be pending, shall be 
 prosecuted to judgment and execution in the name 
 of the State. All offences committed against the 
 laws of tho Territory of Minnesota, before tho 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, AcarsT 17. 
 
 505 
 
 change from a territorial to a State government, 
 and which shall not be prosecuted before such 
 change, may be prosecuted in the name and by 
 the authority of the State of Minnesota, with like 
 eflFect as though such change had not taken place ; 
 and all penalties incurred shall remain the same 
 as if this Constitution had not been adopted. All 
 actions at law, and suits in equity, which may be 
 pending in any of the courts of the Territory of 
 Minnesota, at the time of the change from a terri- 
 torial to a State government, may be continued 
 and transferred to any court of the State which 
 shall have jurisdiction of the subject matter 
 thereof. 
 
 " Sec. 5. All officers, civil and military, now 
 holding their offices under the authority of the 
 United States, or of the Territory of Minnesota, 
 shall continue to hold and exercise their respec- 
 tive offices until superceded by the authority of the 
 State. 
 
 " Sec. 6. The first session of the Legislature 
 of the State of Minnesota shall commence on tlie 
 second Tuesday of January, 1S58, and shall be 
 held at the Capital in the city of St. Paul, at which 
 time and place the State Election Commissioner 
 hereinafter provided for, shall attend vrith a list of 
 the members elect in each house ; and after read- 
 ing said list to the members assembled, shall call 
 them to order, and act as presiding officer, until 
 a temporary organization shall be effijcted in each 
 branch. The said State Election Commissioner 
 shall likewise communicate to the Legislature, a 
 list of all the State and Judicial officers elected, 
 with an abstract of the votes cast for each, and on 
 the day subsequent to the permanent organization 
 of the Legislature, by the election of permanent 
 officers thereof, the State and Judicial officers 
 elect, shall appear in the Hall of the House of 
 Representatives, and in presence of both branches 
 of the Legislature in Convention assembled, shall 
 be publicly sworn into office, and shall thereafter 
 assume and perform all the duties of their several 
 offices as enjoined upon them by the provisions of 
 his Constitution. 
 
 " Sec. 7. All county, precinct and township 
 officers, shall continue to hold their respective of- 
 fices unless removed by the competent authority, 
 until the Legislature shall provide by law for filling 
 such offices respectively, in conformity with the 
 provisions of this Constitution. 
 
 "Sec. 8. The President of this Convention 
 shall immediately after its adjournment cause a 
 fair copy of this Constitution, to be forwarded to 
 the President of the United States, to be laid be- 
 fore the Congress of the United States at its next 
 session. 
 
 "Sec. 9. This Constitution shall be snbmitted to 
 the people for their ratiflcatio n or rejection, at an 
 election to be held on the second Tuesday of Octo- 
 ber next, in the duly established election precinct* 
 within the limits of the proposed State ; and all per- 
 sons who have resided in the proposed State three 
 
 64 
 
 months, and are otherwise duly qualified to vote, 
 
 as provided in the article of this Constitution, 
 
 shall be entitled to vote for and against the adop- 
 tion of this Donstitution, and for all officers first 
 elected under it. And if the Constitution is rati- 
 fied by the said electors, or a majority [thereof, it 
 shall become the Constitution of the State of Min- 
 nesota. On such ballots as are for the Constitu- 
 tion, shall be written or printed the word "Yes," 
 and on such as are against the Constitution, the 
 word " No." The election shall be conducted in 
 all respects, and vacancies in the election of officers 
 filled in the manner prescribed by law. But if, 
 from any cause, in any precinct, at the time speci- 
 fied for opening the polls, the usual places of 
 holding the elections cannot be used for that pur- 
 pose, then the officers of the election shall adjourn 
 to, and open the polls forthwith at the most con- 
 venient place nearest thereto ; and on counting the 
 votes cast at said election, the judges of the elec- 
 tion shall make return thereof in legal form to the 
 following named persons who are hereby appoin- 
 ted county election commissioners in and for the 
 several counties and districts for which they are 
 respectively named, to receive said returns, and to 
 perform in regard thereto, aU the duties which are 
 now by law required to be performed by registers 
 of deeds, as commission officers in the several 
 cotmties, and in addition to the returns and ab- 
 stracts prescribed by law to be made by the said 
 register, the county election commissioners shall 
 respectively make another abstract of all the votes 
 cast in their respective districts, and forward the 
 same to St. A. D. Balcombe, President of this 
 Convention at the city of St. Paul. 
 
 The county election commissioner for Honston 
 county shall be James A. McCann. 
 
 For Mower county, Rufus L. Kimball. 
 
 For Olmsted county, Moses W. Fay. 
 
 For Freeborn county, W. Andrews. * 
 
 For Faribault county, J. B. Wakefield. 
 
 For Blue Earth county, A. D. Seward. 
 
 For Wabashaw county, Abner Tibbets. 
 
 For Goodhue county, J. W. Hancock. 
 
 For Dakota county, John Kennedy. 
 
 For Scott county, Hamilton Clarke. 
 
 For Steele county, H. M. Sheetz. 
 
 For Rice county, Isaac Hammond. 
 
 For Winona county, C. F. Buck. 
 
 For Nicollet, Brown, Renville and Pierce coun- 
 ties, Henry A. Swift. 
 
 For Le Seur county, Jud Joneg. 
 
 For Carver county, T. D. Smith. 
 
 For McLeod eounty, W. S. Chapman. 
 
 For Meeker county, Thomas H. Skinner. 
 
 For Sibley county, James C. Pratt 
 
 For Dodge county, Isaac Turtlott. 
 
 For Waseca county, J. W. Crawford. 
 
 For Fillmore county, S. B. Murrell. 
 
 For Wright county, J. F. Bradley. 
 
 For Steams, Todd and Pembina, C. T. Steams. 
 
 For Anoka and Manomin, Jared Benson. 
 
506 
 
 MINNESOTxY CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 17. 
 
 For Isanti county, Joseph H. Canny. 
 
 For Hennepin county, C. G. Ames. 
 
 For Sherburne county. 
 
 For Benton county. 
 
 For Morrison, Crow Wing and Cass counties, 
 James Fergus. 
 
 For St. Louis, Lake and Itasca, E. F. Ely. 
 
 For Chisago county, Thomas Lacy. 
 
 For Pine county, J. G. Randall. 
 
 For Washington county, Thomas J. Yorks 
 
 For Ramsey county, G. W. Moore. 
 
 And the persons aforenamed are hereby declared 
 to be the election commissioners, respectively, for 
 the several counties and districts specified, and 
 they shall continue in oflBce and act as canvassing 
 oflacers, in place of the register of deeds, at all 
 elections under this Constitution, and until the 
 final admission of the State of Minnesota into the 
 Union of the United States, unless otherwise pro- 
 vided by law passed in pursuance of the provisions 
 of this Constitution. The President of this Con- 
 vention, St. Andrew D. Balcombe, is hereby 
 appointed State Election Commissioner ; and he 
 shall perform the same duties in regard to all 
 elections under this Constitution as are now re- 
 quired by law to be performed by the Secretary of 
 the Territory ; and if from any cause, he is unable 
 to act, he may designate his own successor, and 
 he shall have power to fill all vacancies in the 
 county election commissioners, that may occur by 
 death, resignation or otherwise, and may appoint 
 others in place of those county commissioners, 
 who may refuse or neglect to attend to th« duties 
 of their appointment. And in the event of the 
 ratification of this Constitution by a majority of 
 the people voting thereon, the State Election Com- 
 missioner shall make public proclamation of the 
 same ; whereupon, an election shall be held for 
 Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Treasurer, Attor- 
 ney General, Auditor, Superintendent of Public 
 Instruction, Members of the State Legislature, and 
 Members of Congress, and such other ofiicers 
 
 whose election is herein provided for, on the 
 
 ^gv of and no further notice of such 
 
 election shall be required. 
 
 " Sec. 10. Until there shall be a new apportion- 
 ment by the Legislature, the Members of the 
 Senate and House of Representatives shall be ap- 
 portioned and elected in districts as follows : 
 
 In the first district, the county of Houston shall 
 elect four representatives tlnd one senator. 
 
 In the second district, the county of Fillmore 
 shall elect four representatives and two sena- 
 tors. 
 
 In the third district, the county of Mower shall 
 elect two representatives and one senator. 
 
 In the fourth district, the county of Blue Earth 
 shall elect one representative, and the county of 
 Farribault one representative, and together they 
 shall elect one senator. 
 
 In the fifth district, the county of Winona shall 
 elect four representatives, and the county of Wa- 
 
 bash aw two representatives, and together they 
 shall elect two senators. 
 
 In the sixth district, the county of Olmsted 
 shall elect four representatives and one senator. 
 
 In the seventh district, the county of Dodge and 
 the county of Steele shall together elect three 
 representatives and one senator. 
 
 In the eighth district, the county of Waseca 
 shall elect one representative, and the county of 
 Freeborn shall elect one representative, and to- 
 gether they shall elect one senator. 
 
 In the ninth district, the county of Goodhue shall 
 elect three representatives and one senator. 
 
 In the tenth district, the county of Dakota shall 
 elect four representatives, and the county of Rice 
 three representatives, and together they shall elect 
 three senators. 
 
 In the eleventh district, the county of Scott shall 
 elect two representatives and one senator. 
 
 In the twelfth district, the county of Carver 
 shall elect one representative, and the county of 
 McLeod one representative, and together they 
 shall elect one senator. 
 
 In the thirteenth district, the county of Le Sueur 
 shall elect one representative and the county of 
 Nicollet one representative, and together they 
 shall elect one senator. 
 
 In the fourteenth district, the county of Sibley 
 shall elect one representative, and the counties of 
 Brown, Renville and Pierce one representative, 
 and together they shall elect one senator. 
 
 In the fifteenth district, the county of Hennepin 
 shall elect six representatives and two senators. 
 
 In the sixteenth district, the counties of Wright 
 and Meeker shall elect one representative, and the 
 counties of Sherburne, Benton and Morrison one 
 representative, and together they shall one sena- 
 tor. 
 
 In the seventeenth district, the counties of Stearns 
 and Todd shall elect one representative, and the 
 counties of Cass, Itasca, Pembina, St. Louis and 
 Lake, one representative, and together they shall 
 elect one senator. 
 
 In the eighteenth district, the counties of Chi- 
 sago, Pine and Isanti, shall elect two representa- 
 tives, and the counties of Anoka and Manomin one 
 representative, and together they shall elect one 
 senator. 
 
 In the nineteenth district, the county of Wash- 
 ington shall elect three representatives and one 
 senator. 
 
 In the twentieth district, the county of Ramsey 
 shall elect five representatives and two senators. 
 
 "Sec. 11. The several elections provided for by 
 this article, shall be conducted according to the ex- 
 isting laws, except as is otherwise provided ; and 
 the returns of the election for all officers shall be 
 made to the county election commissioners ; and 
 a full abstract of all the votes cast for each and 
 every officer shall be made to the State election 
 commissioner, who shall make public proclamatiom 
 of the aggregate of the votes for each office, in 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 17. 
 
 507 
 
 every district, and of the persons in each district 
 who are elected to the several offices voted for. 
 
 " Sec. 12. Two members of Congress shall also 
 be elected on day of ; and until other- 
 wise provided by law the counties of Houston, 
 •Winona, Wabashaw, Olmsted, Fillmore, Mower, 
 Goodhue, Dodge, Freeborn, Faribault, Brown, 
 Pierce, Renville, Nicollet, Blue Earth, Waseca 
 and Steele counties, shall constitute the first Con- 
 gressional district, and elect one member of Con- 
 gress ; and the counties of Rice, Le Sueur, Sibley, 
 Scott, Dakota, Ramsey, Hennepin, Carver, Mc- 
 Leod, Meeker, Wright, Washington, Chisago, 
 Pine, Isanti, Anoka, Sherburne, Stearns, Benton, 
 Morrison, Crow Wing, Itasca, Pembina, St. Louis 
 
 and shall constitute the second Congressional 
 
 district, and elect one member of Congress. 
 
 " Sec. 13. The following shall be the apportion- 
 ment and arrangement of the judicial districts of 
 the State, until otherwise provided by law : 
 
 The counties of Ramsey, Dakota and Manomin 
 shall constitute the first judicial circuit. 
 
 The counties of Washington, 'Chisago, Pine, 
 Isanti, Benton, Stearns, Morrison. Todd, Pembina, 
 Cass, Itasca, Lake and St. Louis shall constitute 
 the second judicial circuit. 
 
 The counties of Hennepin, Carver, McLeod, Sib- 
 ley, Meeker, Wright, Sherburne and Anoka shall 
 constitute the third judicial district. 
 
 The counties of Mower, Dodge, Blue Earth, Far- 
 ibault, Freeborn, Steele, Waseca, Brown, Ren- 
 ville and Pierce shall constitute the fifth judicial 
 circuit. 
 
 The counties of Scott, Le Sueur, Rice, Goodhue, 
 Wabashaw and Nicollet shall constitute the fourth 
 judicial circuit. 
 
 The counties of Winona, Olmsted, Fillmore and 
 Houston shall constitute the sixth judicial circuit. 
 
 " Sec. 14. Each judicial circuit shall elect one 
 circuit judge ; and the first and second circuits 
 shall together compose the first Supreme Judicial 
 district; the third and fourth judicial circuits shall 
 together compose the second Supreme Judicial 
 district, and the fifth and sixth judicial circuits 
 shall together compose the third Supreme Judicial 
 district ; and in each Supreme Judicial district 
 as aforesaid, one Judge of the Supreme Court 
 shall be elected." 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I move that so much of 
 the rules as require that this report shall be 
 printed before it is considered, be suspended, 
 and that we now proceed to its consideration, 
 Mr. WILSON. I hope that course will 
 not be adopted. It is an important report, 
 and I should like to have it laid before each 
 member, so they can examine it. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I have no desire to press 
 my motion, if it is objected to. I supposed it 
 would be agreed to without dissent. I with- 
 draw the motion. 
 
 The report was then read a second time, 
 and laid upon the table to be printed. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. HUDSON, the 
 Convention took a recess until half past two 
 o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention re-assembled at half past 
 two o'clock. 
 
 The PRESIDENT announced that the 
 special order for this hour, was the considera- 
 tion of the report of the committee upon Pub- 
 lic Property, the pending question being on 
 the amendment offered by Mr. Secojibe to 
 the fourth section. 
 
 The amendment was read as follows — 
 
 " Sec. 4. The proceeds of all lands set apart 
 and reserved by and under the act of Congress, 
 approved February 19, 1851, for the use and sup- 
 port of the University in the Territory of Minne- 
 sota, shall be a perpetual fund to be called "The 
 University Fund," which shall be appropriated to 
 the use and support of "The University of Min- 
 nesota;" and the location of the said University 
 under existing laws is hereby confirmed." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I demand the yeas and 
 nays upon that amendment. The yeas and 
 nays were ordered. 
 
 Mr. KING. I move that there be a call of 
 the Convention. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the roll 
 being called the following members failed to 
 answer to their names — 
 
 Messrs. Aldbich, Ayeb, Bartholemew, 
 Cederstam, Dickebson, Foster, Lowe, Mc- 
 KuNE, Messeb, Putnam, Smith and Thomp- 
 son. I 
 
 Pending the call, it was stated that Messrs. 
 Cedebstam, Messeb, Peckham arid Dicker- 
 son were detained from the Convention by 
 sickness, and that Mr. Thompson was out of 
 the city. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN moved that all further pro- 
 ceedings under the call be dispensed with. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The question was then taken by ayes and 
 nays on the amendment, and it was decided 
 in the negative — ^yeas seventeen, nays twenty- 
 nine, as follows : 
 
 Yeas — ^Messrs. Bates, Coombs, Eschlie, Folsom, 
 Galbraith, Hall, Hayden, Morgan, Murphy, North, 
 Phelps, Perkins, Russell, Secombe, Smith, Walker 
 and Mr. President — 17. 
 
 iVays— Messrs. Anderson, Baldwin, Billings, 
 BoUes, Butler, C leghorn, Colburn, Coggswell, Coe, 
 
508 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 17. 
 
 Davis, Dulej'', Gerrish, Harding, Hudson, Hanson, 
 HoUey, King, Kemp, Lyle, Mantor, McCann, Mc- 
 Clure, Mills, Feckham, Bobbins, Stannard, 
 Vaughn, Watson and Wilson — 29. 
 
 So the amendment was not agreeed to. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I wish to offer another 
 substitute. I will not detain the Convention 
 by any remarks upon it. 
 
 The amendment was jead as follows : 
 
 " Sec. i. The proceeds of all lands granted or 
 set apart and reserved by the United States for the 
 use and support of a University, shall be a perpet- 
 ual fund, to be called the "University Fund," 
 which shall be appropriated to the use and support 
 of the University of Minnesota." 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I move as an amendment 
 to the substitute that the original section as 
 it now stands amended, be stricken out. 
 That will leave the whole matter where the 
 Enabling Act leaves it. The Enabling Act is 
 specific upon that point and we have accept- 
 ed the Enabling Act. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I rise lo a point of order. 
 The gentleman's motion is not in order. This 
 is offered as a substitute for the section, and 
 it seems to me that an amendment to that sub- 
 stitute to strike out the whole section would 
 not be in order. However, I propose, if this 
 substitute does not pass, to make that motion 
 myself, but I prefer to have a vote taken upon 
 the substitute first. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I do not think that 
 the amendment offered by the gentleman fi^om 
 Hennepin (Mr. Secombe) is a substitute for 
 the section, because it is only a part of the 
 original section itself. It is word for word, 
 like the first part of the section. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I would inquire what 
 
 will be the effect of the u.otion of the gentle- 
 
 . man from Winona, (Mr. Wilson)? It seems 
 
 to me that we are mixing up matters rather 
 
 too much. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair is of opin- 
 ion that the motion of the gentleman from 
 Winona is not strictly in order. After the 
 question is put upon the substitute, that mo- 
 tion will be in order. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I rise to remark that I 
 much prefer striking out the whole section to 
 having it as it now stands, for the reason that 
 it simply recognizes the fact that a University 
 does exist in the Territory, and directs that 
 the fund appropriated to the University by 
 the United States shall be appropriated to that 
 
 particular purpose. If this substitute fails, I 
 shall vote for striking out the whole section. 
 
 Mr. Bx\TES. I agree with my colleague 
 who has just taken his seat. I prefer that 
 the section should be stricken out, rather than . 
 remain as it is now. At the same time, I 
 prefer that the substitute be adopted, and I 
 cannot see any objection any gentleman can 
 have to it. It does not locate the University. 
 It leaves it simply as gentlemen have asked 
 that it should be left. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I do not wish to appeal 
 from the decision of the Chair on my amend- 
 ment or motion, but I certainly differ with 
 him, and think my amendment must be in 
 order. If to strike out is not an amendment, I 
 do not know what an amendment is under 
 parliamentary usage. I never before heard 
 the point decided in that way. I certainly 
 think the chair can call to mind many similar 
 cases during the course of this Convention. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The motion is not to 
 strike out anything in the substitute. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. It certainly is an amend- 
 ment, whether it makes the matter better or 
 worse. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair is perfectly 
 willing to record his decision upon the Jour- 
 nal, and the gentleman can take an appeal [if 
 he desires. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. The motion of the 
 getleman from Hennepin is to strike out and 
 insert. I call for a division of the question, 
 first upon striking out, and then upon insert- 
 ing. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. That is not my motion. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The motion is not 
 to strike out and insert, but to substitute. 
 There is a difference in the opinion of the 
 Chair between the two motions. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. How can a substitute 
 be put in the place of that section without 
 striking out f 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. This is a substitute, and 
 if adopted, it is true the other will have to 
 be stricken out. But it certainly is not a 
 motion to strike out and insert. If it is ad- 
 opted it leaves the matter about as the gentle- 
 man from Winona desires to put it. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The opinion of the 
 Chair is that a motion to substitute is not 
 divisible. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Rule thirty-nine says : "A 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Moxdat, August 17. 
 
 509 
 
 I 
 
 " motion to strike out and insert shall be deemed 
 "indivisible; but a motion to strike out being 
 " lost, shall neither preclude amendment, nor 
 *' a motion to strike out and insert." 
 
 So that even if it were a motion to strike 
 out and insert, it would be indivisible. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair has deci- 
 ded in accordance with the rule. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE called for the yeas and nays 
 upon the amendment. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered. 
 
 Mr. COGOSWELL moved a call of the 
 Convention. 
 
 A call was ordered, and the roll being called 
 the following members failed to answer to 
 their names : 
 
 Messrs. Baktholomew, Cedebstam, Davis, 
 DicKERsox, Foster, Lowe, McKu>t:, Messeb, 
 McBPHY and Pctxam. 
 
 The Sergeant-at-arms was directed to re- 
 port the absentees in their seats. 
 
 T.Ir. MURPHY moved that all fm-ther pro- 
 ceedings imder the call be dispensed with. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL moved to lay that mo- 
 tion upon the table. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. The gentleman from 
 Steele covmty is out of order in making that 
 motion. 
 
 The motion made by Mr. Mcbphy was 
 agreed to, and all further proceedings under 
 the call were dispensed with. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. Will remarks upon this 
 amendment be in order ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. They wiU be. , 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I rise to a point of or- 
 der. Debate is not in order after the yeas 
 and nays have been ordered. The yeas and 
 nays have been ordered upon this amend- 
 ment. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Secretary informs 
 the Chair that the yeas and nays have been 
 ordered, such being the fact, debate is not in 
 allowable except by general consent. 
 
 Mr. SEC0:MBE. I hope that consent will 
 be given to discuss this substitute. I de- 
 manded the yeas and nays myself, and if it 
 is in order, I would mthdrawthe call. (Cries 
 of "No, No.") 
 
 The question was then taken and it was 
 decided in the negative — ^yeas twenty-two, 
 nays twenty-eight, as follows : 
 
 Yeas. — Messrs. Aldrich, Bates, Coombs, Eschlie, 
 Foster, Folsom, Galbraith, Hall, Hayden, Morgan, 
 
 Mnrphy, Xorth, Phelps, Perkins, Rnssell, Sheldon, 
 Secombe, Smith, Vaugn, Walker, Winell and Mr. 
 President— 22. 
 
 H'ayg. — Messrs. Anderson, Baldwin, Billings, 
 Bolles, Butler, Cleghom, Colbum, Coggswell, Coe, 
 Davis, Duley, Gerrish, Harding, Hudson, Hanson, 
 Hollej, King, Kemp, Lyle, Mantor, McCann, Mc- 
 Cluxe, Mills, Peckham, Bobbins, St^nnard, Wat- 
 son and Wilson. — 23. 
 
 So the substitute was not adopted. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I now move that section 
 four be stricken out. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The report as amended was then oidered to 
 be engrossed for a thu'd reading. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. There is in section one of 
 this report, a — (cries of "order" "order.") 
 I think there is a matter of importance in sec- 
 tion one, which has been overlooked. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would inquire if the 
 gentleman sees the University anywhere in 
 it ? (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I refer to no local matter. 
 (Cries of " Order.") 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I hope we have courtesy 
 enough to allow the gentleman to state what 
 he desires. It may be a matter of impor- 
 tance to the Convention. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. A motion to that ef- 
 fect will be in order. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I move that the gentleman 
 have leave to speak. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. Section one is as follows : 
 
 "The State shall have concurrent jurisdiction 
 on the Mississippi, and all other rivers and waters 
 bordering on this State, so far as the same shall 
 form a common boundary to this State and any 
 other State or States, now or hereafter to be formed 
 or bounded by the same ; and said river and waters 
 leading into the same, shall be common highways, 
 and forever free, as well to the inhabitants of this 
 State, as to all other citizens of the United States, 
 without any tax, duty, import or toll therefor." 
 
 A motion was made to insert the word 
 " navigable" before the word " waters," 
 where it occurs the second time. I was 
 about to say in regard to that matter, that 
 the word "river" was understood by the 
 Convention to mean the Mississippi. Now I 
 think we are not warranted in coming to that 
 conclusion. According to the meaning of 
 this section, we would not be able to make a 
 dam across any stream leading into the St. 
 Croix, or into the Mississippi, or even to 
 
510 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 17. 
 
 buDd a bridge over it. I do not believe that 
 it is the intention of the Convention so to 
 leave the matter. If gentlemen think it is all 
 right, I am satisfied. (Cries of "Right!' 
 " Right ! ") 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I would like to know, 
 whether, under this section, we could put 
 bridges across the small streams that run 
 through our farms ? It seems to me that we 
 cannot. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would inquire in what 
 stage of its progress this bill is ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It has been ordered 
 to be engrossed for a third reading. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. This is a very important 
 matter, and ought to be carefully considered. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. It was discussed at the 
 time it was under consideration, and it was 
 found to be in the very words of the Enabling 
 Act. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would state, as Chair- 
 man of the committee that made the report, 
 that such is the fact. It is a transcript of a 
 section of the Enabling Act upon the same 
 subject. The matter was fully considered at 
 the time the section was under consideration, 
 and it was deemed by the Convention not 
 within our province to alter the act of Con- 
 gress upon this subject. Congress may have 
 been fools in passing it, but it is not the busi- 
 ness of this Convention to alter it. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. With the leave of the Con- 
 vention, I will state why I deem this an im- 
 portant point. Certain individuals residing 
 upon certain streams in this Territory, which 
 are good streams for mill purposes, but not 
 for navigation, have at times attempted by an 
 act of the Legislature to declare those streams 
 public highways, thereby preventing the erec- 
 tion of dams across them for mill purposes. 
 By putting this into the Constitution we give 
 such persons additional strength in making 
 trouble where there should be none. It ap- 
 pears to be the same as the Enabling Act, 
 still it appears to me better not to put it into 
 the Constitution. For that reason, I would 
 move to strike out all after the words, 
 " bounded by the same." It will then sim- 
 ply recognize the power of the Legislature 
 over these streams, without stating anything 
 further. It certainly can do no liarm to leave 
 the latter part of the section out, and it may 
 
 be of considerable benefit to the people of 
 this Territory. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I beUeve a motion of 
 that character would not be in order, inas- 
 much as we have ordered this report to be 
 engrossed for a third readmg. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Then I move to reconsider 
 the vote by which it was so ordered to be 
 engrossed. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I hope the motion to 
 reconsider will not prevail, for we have been 
 very careful thus far not to violate any pro- 
 vision of the Enabling Act. We have been 
 remarkably cautious, and as we have adopted 
 the Enabling Act, and* have been so careful 
 not to violate its provisions,- it seems to me 
 that it is rather too late in the day to back 
 out of that position, and undertake to con- 
 travene any provision of that act. If we 
 have made fools of ourselves, and Congress 
 made fools of themselves, I propose to 
 stand it. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. When this section was 
 under discussion before the Convention, I 
 made a motion to insert "navigable"- before 
 " waters." That was voted down, upon its 
 being stated that this section was an exact 
 transcript of the language of the Enabling 
 Act. I think Congress made an omission in 
 not inserting that word, and if it is a fact that 
 Congress did make such an omission, I do 
 not think that is a valid reason why we 
 should make a like omission. It seems to me 
 that the proper course for us would be to re- 
 consider, and then make this alteration. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I hope this motion will be 
 re-considered. As the section now stands, 
 we are debarred from making any improve- 
 ments, on every mill stream that leads into 
 the St. Croix ; and indeed, I do not know but 
 the provision is retro-active, and we should 
 have to remove such improvements as are al- 
 ready made. 
 
 In the Wisconsin Constitution they have a 
 provision of a similar character, and in that 
 the word " navigable" is inserted. It cer- 
 tainly can do no harm to strike out the latter 
 part of the section. That would not inter- 
 fere with the Enabling Act. It would only 
 be silence upon the subject. 
 
 The motion to re-consider was carried. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN, I now move to insert the 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, Acgust 1^ 
 
 511 
 
 word " navigable" before the word " waters," 
 in the fifth line. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I hope the gentleman 
 will include in his motion the addition of the 
 letter " s " to the word " river," in the same 
 line. I think it is very clear that it is in- 
 tended to be a repetition of the language of 
 the second line. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I think the amendment 
 of the gentleman from Hennepin county may 
 be adopted without involving us in any diffi- 
 culty, though I think we would be justified 
 in adopting the section as it stands. The re- 
 marks I made previously were more in justi- 
 fication of the committee, than anything else. 
 Congress have said, however, that the Miss- 
 issippi river and the waters leading into it, 
 whether navigable or otherwise, shall be pub- 
 lic highways. We need not necessarily say 
 that. TVe may merely say that navigable 
 waters shall be highways, and if Congress in- 
 tended that all waters shall be, they will be, 
 whether we say so or not. So it seems to me 
 that it would not be a violation of the Ena- 
 bling Act to say " navigable waters." We 
 do not thereby exclude other waters from be- 
 ing highways. 
 
 In regard to the word " river," to which 
 the gentleman from Fillmore (Mr. Billings,) 
 referred, I take it that it means the Mississip- 
 pi river, and no other. " The said river ; " 
 the word "said" refers to some particular 
 river which has been previously mentioned, 
 and that particular river is the Mississippi 
 river, and no other. There is a reason in 
 that. Here are two provisions made ; first, 
 that the Mississippi river and all other rivers 
 bordering upon the State shall be under the 
 jurisdiction of this State, in concurrence with 
 other States. The other is, that the provis- 
 ion of the ordinance of Congress, imder which 
 the Territory was originally established, shall 
 be carried out ; and that is, that the Missis- 
 sippi river and the St. Lawrence, and other 
 rivers running into the same, shall be public 
 highways. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. The orders of the 
 General Land Office to the surveyors in the 
 new Territories, have invariably been, to 
 meander the navigable streams, and where 
 they have not considered streams navigable, 
 they have not been meandered. I am willing 
 
 to leave it where the Enabling Act has left it. 
 It is definite enough. I am disposed to pro- 
 hibit the Legislature from giving exclusive 
 rights to build dams across any streams 
 which may be navigated unless they provide 
 for getting around them. There are many 
 streams leading into the St. Croix river, 
 where dams have already been built, and 
 individuals owning property above, have no 
 means to get to it, except by following along 
 the river. Now if dams have been built, and 
 the navigation obstructed for a long time, I 
 do not know how the individuals owning pro- 
 perty still higher up, are to get their rights. 
 I think we had better leave it where it is. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I think the difficulty the 
 gentleman su^ests is usually|provided for by 
 a statutory provision, requiring those persons 
 who biuld dams to provide a slide for the pas- 
 sage of logs and lumber down those streams. 
 But there are other streams in the Territory 
 where difficulty has been attempted to be 
 made, and persons have even gone so &r as 
 to say that dams should not be erected, be- 
 cause those streams, as they assert, are high- 
 ways. In reference to the Cannon river, 
 which was never known to be navigable, a 
 bill was got through the Legislature one win- 
 ter declaring that to be a public highway, 
 and it was claimed under that act, that no 
 dam could be erected. A half a dozen dams 
 or more, were already upon that stream. It 
 was regarded by those who afterwards saw 
 the bill, but did not detect the object of it at 
 the time of its passage, as a mischievous bill, 
 and designed to make difficulty. So far as 
 we were concerned, our dams were built be- 
 fore the passage of the bill, and it would not 
 have acted upon us, even if the Legislature 
 had any authority in the case. But the bill 
 was so badly framed, that it failed of its ob- 
 ject, though the design was apparent. 
 
 Knowing the disposition of certain trouble- 
 some pergons, as manifested in that case, I 
 can easily conceive how others, through the 
 Territory, might be subjected to the same dif- 
 ficulty, and how persons, having no other in- 
 terest than to make trouble, could easily do 
 so. Upon that account, it seems to me to be 
 best to amend the section in the manner pro- 
 posed. Then all will be perfectly safe and 
 secm^ — the people of St. Croix as well as all 
 others. 
 
^12 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 17. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD called for the yeas and 
 nays upon the amendment. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 question being put, it was decided in the af- 
 firmative — yeas thirty-five, nays fifteen, as 
 follows : 
 
 Teas. — Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Baldwin, 
 Bates, Billings, Butler, Cleghorn, Colburn, Coe, 
 Coombs, Davis, Duley, Dickerson, Eschlie, Foster, 
 Galbraith, Hayden, Harding, Hudson, Holley, 
 Kemp, Lyle, McCann, Morgan, North, Phelps, 
 Perkins, Eussell, Sheldon, Secombe, Smith, 
 Vaughn, Winell, Bolles, and Watson.— 35. 
 
 Nays. — Messrs. Coggswell, Folsom, Gerrish, 
 Hall, Hanson, King, McKune, McClure, Mills, 
 Peckham, Bobbins, Stannard, "Walker, Wilson, 
 and the President. — 15. 
 So the amendment was adopted. 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I desire to offer an amend- 
 ment. The St. Croix river is considered nav- 
 igable as far as the Falls. Then there are 
 five or six mile of rapids, and above that are 
 sixty or seventy miles of the river which is 
 navigable, and upon which boats are now be- 
 ing built. I think it would be better to strike 
 out the words, " said river and navigable wa- 
 " ters leading into the same," and that would 
 leave our navigation forever free. I think if 
 members of the Convention would look upon 
 this matter in its true light, they would let us 
 have the rivers forming the boundaries of our 
 State forever free. Companies are preparing 
 to build boats, and if we put in the word 
 "navigable," it will cut us off above the 
 Falls. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would inquire if that is 
 not the case now ? I understand that the 
 section now leaves the boundary rivers en- 
 tirely free. 
 Mr. FOLSOM. T do not understand it so. 
 Mr, NORTH. " And said rivers and nav- 
 " igable waters leading into the same shall be 
 "forever free." I think that, mthout any 
 alteration makes the bovmdaries free. An 
 amendment was suggested to add.the letter 
 " s " to the word " river," and I suppose it 
 was adopted by general consent, and hence I 
 have quoted the language in that manner. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I do not understand, as 
 does the gentleman who has just taken his 
 seat, that there is any connection between the 
 first and second parts of the section. I un- 
 derstand that the word " river " does not 
 refer to the " rivers and waters bordering 
 
 on this State." There are two subjects em- 
 braced in this section. One is that the State 
 shall have concurrent jurisdiction upon cer- 
 tain waters. What are they ? The Missis- 
 sippi river, wherever it forms the boundary 
 and any other rivers or waters that form boun- 
 dary lines between this and other States. 
 That subject is disposed of in the first part of 
 the section. In the Enabling Act, there is a 
 semi-colon after that provision. Then we 
 come to another subject ; we come to that 
 provision of the Enabling Act, which is in 
 accordance with the ordinance of 1787, ma- 
 king the Mississippi and St. Lawrence rivers, 
 and all rivers running into them, public high- 
 ways. It was a part of the original compact 
 between the granting States and the United 
 States, which it was the intention of Congress 
 to provide for carrying out, in this section. 
 Then the " said river" means some river that 
 has been mentioned in the section — that is the 
 Mississippi river. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. If it be in order, I move 
 that the letter " s " be added to the word 
 "river," and then it will cover the object 
 sought by the gentleman from St. Croix. 
 
 Mr. KING. I do not know as I can throw 
 any light upon this subject. 
 
 The Enabling Act reads as follows : 
 
 " That the State of Minnesota shall have concur- 
 rent jurisdiction on the Mississippi and all other 
 rivers and waters bordering on the said State of 
 Minnesota, so far as the same shall form a common 
 boundary to said State, and any State or States 
 now, or hereafter to be formed or bounded by the 
 same ; and said river and waters leading into the 
 same, shall be common highways, and forever free, 
 as well to the inhabitants of said State as to all 
 other citizens of the United States, without any 
 tax, duty, imposts, or toll therefor. 
 
 Now if we call the " said river " the Mis- 
 sissippi, what will we call the words " the 
 same"? I think it is a mistake of the printer, 
 and that it should be "the said rivers and 
 waters" leading into the same Mississippi 
 shall be common highways, and forever, free, 
 &c. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. If in the fiflh line, the 
 word "river " is mistaken for " rivers," then 
 it means all the rivers that are mentioned in 
 second line, and that includes not only those 
 wliich are navigable, but those which are not 
 navigable. Now we cannot suppose that 
 Congress meant to declare that all waters, 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Moxdat, Acgcst 17. 
 
 513 
 
 bordering upon the State, though navigable 
 only by a canoe, should be common highways. 
 Hence, if the word ^" river " in the fifth line, 
 means the same waters mentioned in the sec- 
 ond Une, we must come to the conclusion that 
 Congress made a mistake in the second line, 
 and should have said " and all other naviga- 
 ble rivers and waters." The word " river," 
 it seems to me, can mean no other than the 
 Mississippi river, because if it means all the 
 waters before mentioned, it necessarily in- 
 cludes all rivers, whether navigable or not. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I differ with the gen- 
 tleman. I consider that the word " river " in 
 the fifth line has reference not only to the Mis- 
 sissippi, but to all other rivers. I think so 
 from this feet, that it could not have been the 
 intention of Congress to exclude the Red 
 River of the North, from being a common 
 highway, so far as it forms a common boun- 
 dary. The language must be apphed to the 
 Red River as well as to the Mississippi. By 
 making the word plural, it would meet the 
 intention of Congress, I think. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would ask the gentle- 
 man whether the words in the second line are 
 limited to navigable rivers ? 
 
 Mr. STAXS'ARD. That is the position I 
 took before the Convention a short time ago. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Then I would inquire if 
 the United States has refused to give us con- 
 current jurisdiction upon rivers not navigable, 
 which form a boundary ? 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I do not doubt that 
 the State would have concurrent jurisdiction, 
 according to the first clause of the section ; 
 but by using the term " river '' in the second 
 clause, you would exclude the Red River from 
 being a public highway so &r as it formed a 
 boundary. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. I think this matter is 
 becoming more and more involved, and I move 
 to amend by striking out all the section after 
 the word " same " in the fifth line. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I have in my hands the 
 Statutes of Congress, including the Enabling 
 Act, and I find that the language of the sec- 
 tion as reported by the Committee, and the 
 language of the Enabling Act as printed for 
 our use, do not conform to the act as passed 
 by Congress. It should read " and the said 
 " river and waters, and the natigalle icaten 
 " leading into the same, shall be common high- 
 65 
 
 " ways and forever free, &c." This solves 
 the whole difficulty in which we have been in- 
 volved. I move that the section as I have 
 read it, and as it passed Congress, be substi- 
 tuted for the section as reported by the Com- 
 mittee, so that it shall read — 
 
 Skc. 4. The State shall have concurrent juris- 
 diction on the Mississippi, and all other rivers and 
 waters bordering on this State, so far as the same 
 shall form a common boundary to this State and 
 anr other State or States, now or hereafter to be 
 formed or bounded bv the same; and said river and 
 waters, and the navigable waters leading into the 
 same, shall be common highways, and forever free 
 as well to the inhabitants of this State as to all 
 other citizens of the United States, without any 
 tax, duty, imposts or toll therefor. 
 
 The substitute was adopted. 
 The report was then ordered to be engross- 
 ed for a third reading. 
 
 THE LEGISLATIVE DEPASTMEVT. 
 
 Mr. MAXTOR moved that report number 
 eight, upon the Legislative Department be ta- 
 ken up, read a third time, and put upon its 
 passage. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The report was accordingly taken up and 
 read a third time. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I ask tmanimous consent 
 to insert the word " what " before the word 
 "courts" so that it shall read — 
 
 " The Legislature shall direct by law, in what 
 manner, and in what courts, suits may be brought 
 agUnst the State. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to by unani- 
 mous consent. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. There is in section four- 
 teen a provision which escaped mv atten- 
 tion when the report was tmder consideration 
 in the committed of the Whole, which, it 
 seems to me is inequitable. It is this : 
 
 " Xor shall the compensation of any public offi- 
 cer be increased during his term of office.'* 
 
 It would prevent the salaries of Judges, 
 who are elected for nine years, being increased 
 at any time dining that term. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. We had considerable 
 discussion upon that provision at the time 
 the report was imder consideration. 
 
 Mr. SECOXLBE. I would enquire by 
 what method a change of that provision can 
 be reached at this stage of the report ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It can be changed by 
 the tmanimous consent of the Convention. 
 
5U 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 17. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I ask the unanimous 
 consent of the Convention to strike out the 
 words " increased or." 
 
 Several members objected. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I think the section is well 
 enough, as far as it relates to those oflBcers 
 who hold only one or two years. But the 
 Legislature will probably be inclined to give 
 but small salaries, when our State Govern- 
 ment first goes into operation, and in the case 
 of oflBcers holding oflSce nine years, we shall 
 find that this will work a hardship, and we 
 shall find such oflficers resigning. 
 
 Mr. KING. If their salaries are too small, 
 they can resign. The Legislature would then 
 increase the salary, and good oflficers would 
 then be re-elected. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to suspend the 
 rule which requires unanimous consent to be 
 given. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. The rules cannot be 
 suspended at this stage of the report. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I should like to know the 
 reason. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I would like to know at 
 what particular point the rules become so 
 strong that they cannot be suspended. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair is of the 
 opinion that the rules can be suspended by a 
 two-thirds vote. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. By what rule is that ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. By a rule of JeflTer- 
 son's Manual. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I doubt whether there 
 is any such rule of parliamentary law. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. There is no rule of 
 the Convention in regard to the third reading 
 of a report. • 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. To suspend the rule 
 now, would violate a universal rule estab- 
 lished in all legislative bodies. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. It has been done in the 
 Territorial Legislature. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is not within the 
 recollection of the Chair, that the rules have 
 ever been suspended on the third reading of 
 abUl. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. That was before the Chair 
 had any participation in the legislation of our 
 Territory. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Rule twenty-nbth says, 
 that^ 
 
 " No rule of the Convention shall be suspended, 
 altered or amended, without the concurrence of 
 two-thirds of the members present." 
 
 — And rule thirty-second provides that — 
 
 " The rules of parliamentary practice comprised 
 in Jefferson's Manual shall govern the Conven- 
 tion in all cases to which they are applicable, and 
 in which they are not inconsistent with the stand- 
 ing rules and orders of this Convention." 
 
 — Now by rule thirty-two, we adopt the rules 
 of Jeflferson's Manual as part of our rules in 
 certain cases. Rule twenty-ninth says ex- 
 pressly that a two-thirds vote may suspend 
 the rules, and if that rule does not apply in 
 this case, we can suspend the rules by a mere 
 majority vote according to the Manual. There 
 is no rule of any parliamentary body which 
 may not be suspended by a majority vote, 
 unless there is a special rule of the body 
 requiring a larger vote. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. The universal rule of 
 all legislative bodies is, that bills shall be 
 subject to amendment upon their first and 
 second reading; but that after they are 
 ordered to a tliird reading, they shall not be 
 amended, except by the unanimous consent 
 of the body. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. If there is some rule 
 which has been adopted and acted upon uni- 
 versally, which prevents an amendment on a 
 third reading, the object of that motion is to 
 dispense with that rule, and if there is any 
 objection which can be made to making an 
 amendment at this time, it is because it is in 
 opposition to some rule, which we desire to 
 suspend by this motion. It is a singular 
 state of aflTairs, if this Convention is bound 
 down in such a way that it would require 
 unanimous consent for them, at this stage of 
 proceeding, or any other stage of proceeding, 
 to correct their errors and mistakes. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I would inquire if there 
 is any standing rule of this Convention which 
 applies to this case ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. There is no special 
 rule of the Convention which applies to the 
 third reading of reports, but there is a rule 
 which adopts Jefferson's Manual as a guide, 
 where there are no special rules. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. Then it seems to me 
 that there is no chance for us, by a two- 
 third vote, or any other vote, to suspend that 
 rule. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. For the life of me I cannot 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, Acgcst 17. 
 
 515 
 
 see the nice point which is made in this case. 
 After we have adopted Jefferson's Manual as 
 a system of rules for the action of this body, 
 I cannot see why they are not under the 
 control of this body, just as much as the 
 rules which we have adopted specifically. So 
 far as our own action is concerned, the rules 
 of Jefferson's Manual are just as much under 
 our control as rules, as those rules we have 
 specifically framed, for they are made a part 
 of our rules. The twenty-ninth rule says no 
 rule of this Convention shall be altered or 
 suspended without the concurrence of two- 
 thirds of the' members present. 
 
 It does not say only the standing rules of 
 this body shall be so altered or suspended. 
 The thirty-second rule provides that all rules 
 of Parlimentary practice comprised in Jeffer- 
 son's Manual shall govern the Convention in aU 
 cases to which they are applicable, in which 
 they are not inconsistent with the standing 
 rules and orders of this Convention, without 
 referring to those rules which are framed es- 
 pecially for the Convention. Now the twenty- 
 ninth rule, which says that no rule of this 
 Convention shall be suspended, &c., evidently 
 would cover both the rules which are laid down 
 in Jefferson's Manual and our standing rules. 
 It seems to me as plain as can be, that all 
 the rules come under the same control of this 
 Convention, and one can be suspended as 
 much as another. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. On page sixty-one of 
 Jefferson's Manual, I find the following : 
 
 " The Senate of the United States was so much 
 in the habit of making material amendments at 
 the third reading, that it has become a practice 
 not to engross a bill untU it has passed." 
 
 Showing that a bill can be amended upon 
 its third reading. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. But this report has 
 been engrossed. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I hope the vote vrill be 
 taken upon the motion to suspend all rules. 
 I have no doubt that we have the power to 
 suspend any rule of this body at any time. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The chair is still of 
 opinion that the rule can be suspended by a 
 two-thirds vote, though strongly impressed 
 that it is not customary. It is something 
 which the chair does not remember to have 
 seen done during his legislative experience. 
 It is the right of any gentleman to take an 
 appeal from the decision of the chair. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I think anything is 
 possible in this Convention ; but, sir, for the 
 credit of our journal I hope this wiU not be 
 done. I would prefer almost any other 
 course to be taken. If possible, I would re- 
 consider the vote by which the report was or- 
 dered to be engrossed, or ordered to a third 
 reading — anything which would come within 
 the range of parliamentary practice, because I 
 do not believe there is any precedent for the 
 proposed course either in the journals of the 
 Congress of the United States or of any other 
 parliamentary body. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I hope for the credit of this 
 Convention, that we have no laws which, like 
 the laws of the Medes and Persians, can 
 never be revoked. I hope the motion will 
 prevail, if for no other reason, to show thai 
 we have no rules but what we can revoke. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I believe this is a univer- 
 sal rule for the purpose of cutting off amend- 
 ments. There is a time when amendments 
 should stop, and if there is no such time, we 
 shall never know when we have finished om* 
 business. I know of no precedent for this 
 kind of action. I agree with my fide^id from 
 Chisago, that it would be better to reconsider 
 our former votes and get back where we can 
 make amendments in a parliamentary man- 
 ner. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. But according to our rule, 
 retracing our steps must be done within a 
 certain time, and that time has expired. I 
 do not see how we can get at the amendment 
 of an error or oversight without suspending 
 some rule. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. If a mere error has been 
 committed, that can be remedied by unani- 
 mous consent ; but this is in reference to an 
 amendment upon which there is a difference 
 of opinion. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Suppose an error has been 
 intentionally committed ? There have been 
 such cases. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I would simply re- 
 mark that aU these reports have yet to be 
 referred to one committee — the committee 
 upon Phraseology and Arrangement. And if 
 that committee do their duty, they will 
 recommend some material amendments. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD demanded the yeas and 
 nays upon the motion to suspend the rules. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered, and the 
 
516 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 17. 
 
 question being taken, there were yeas sixteen, 
 nays thirty -ona, as follows: 
 
 Yeas — Messrs. Anderson, Baldwin, Colburn, 
 Foster, Galbraith, Hudson, McCann, McUlure, 
 Morgan, North, Perkins, Russell, Secombe, Smith, 
 Vaughn, Wilson — 16. 
 
 li^ays. — Messrs. Aldrich, Billings, BoUes, Butler, 
 Cleghorn, Cogswell, Coe, Coombs, Davis, Duley, 
 Dickerson, Eschlie, Folsom, Grerrish, Hall, Hay- 
 den, Harding, Hanson, Holly, King, Lyle, Mantor, 
 McKune, Murphy, Phelps, Peckham, Bobbins, 
 Stannard, Winell, Watson and Mr. President — 31. 
 
 ' So the rvUes were not suspended. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I now move that the 
 report be recommitted to the Committee of 
 the Whole, to take into consideration this 
 fourteenth section. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. Cannot this be amended 
 by unanimous consent, without going through 
 all that formality. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I hope the gentleman 
 who made objection will look at the inconsist- 
 ency of leaving this section as it is. We have 
 in another report a provision which conflicts 
 directly with this, and one or the other must 
 be wrong. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I hope the gentleman 
 will withdraw his objection. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I was the one to make 
 the first objection, I believe. At the time the 
 term of office for judges was fixed, it will be 
 recollected that I submitted an amendment 
 to reduce the term of office, as I was opposed 
 to any one holding office nine years. That is 
 the reason why I made the objection. But I 
 see another difficulty which I did not see at 
 that time. I will, however, withdraw my ob- 
 jection. 
 
 Mr. COGSWELL. With what report does 
 
 this section conflict ? 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. With the report upon 
 the Judiciary. 
 
 Mr. COGGS WELL. What does that say ? 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. That their salaries 
 shall not be diminished during their term of 
 office. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. They do not conflict 
 then. This adds a further provision that 
 they shall not be increased. 
 
 The question was then taken upon the 
 motion to recommit the report to the Com- 
 mittee of the Whole, and it was carried. 
 
 On motion of Mr. ALDRICH, the Conven- 
 tion then resolved itself into committee of 
 
 the Whole, Mr. Stannabd in the Chair, and 
 took up the consideration of the report (num- 
 ber eight) from the committee on the Legis- 
 lative Department. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Mr. Chaibman: I move 
 that section fourteen of the Report be now 
 considered by the committee. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN read the section as fol- 
 lows: 
 
 "Sec. 14. No member of the Legislature or 
 other State oflacer shall be interested either di- 
 rectly or indirectly in any contract authorized 
 by the Legislature during his term of oflBce, nor 
 shall the Legislature grant any extra compensa- 
 tion to any public officer, agent, servant or con- 
 tractor after the services shall have been rendered 
 or the contract entered into. Nor shall the com- 
 pensation of any public officer be increased or 
 diminished during his term of office." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Mr. Chairman : I move 
 to strike out from the seventh line of section 
 fourteen, the words " increased or." 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. Mr. Chairman : I am op- 
 posed to this amendment. I am in favor of 
 allowing the salaries of the Judges of the Su- 
 preme and Circuit Courts to be increased, if 
 thought necessary for the reason that they 
 hold for so long a term ; but I am opposed to 
 striking out these words, so as to allow and 
 extend to all other officers of the State with 
 them the same advantage — members of the 
 Legislature and others who hold only two 
 years. I should prefer to put in an exception, 
 and allow the rule to remain — make the Judges 
 an exception to the rule. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Mr. Chairman : I would 
 suggest a difficulty. It is in cases where no 
 compensation is provided for the officer. 
 
 What are you going to do in regard to thoSe 
 officers to be elected before the salaries can 
 be fixed ? According to this section, if they 
 get nothing when they start ofl*, they get 
 nothing during their term. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. Mr. Chairman : I am op- 
 posed to the amendment for this reason — we 
 have heard a great deal about the corruption 
 of office-holders ; and this proposition, it seems 
 to me, is just letting down the bars of cor- 
 ruption to every office-holder in the State. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Mr. Chairman : I like that 
 last speech, and I think I shall now change 
 my vote. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— MoifDAT, August 17. 
 
 517 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. Mr. Chaikjian : I pro- 
 pose to amend the fourteenth section, by in- 
 serting after the word " oflBcer,'' inthe seventh 
 line, these words : " except the Judges of the 
 " Supreme and Circuit Courts." 
 
 The amendment was adopted. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. Mr. Chairmax : I would 
 like to hear the section read, as amended. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN, accordingly, read the 
 section. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. It seems to me this 
 amendment contradicts a section in the ar- 
 ticle on the Judiciary, which we have adop- 
 ted, and which says, the Judges' salary shall 
 not be diminished during his term of office. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. Mr. Chaikxax : if in or- 
 der, I would like to call the attention of the 
 committee to section thirfy-one, which reads 
 as follows : 
 
 "Sec. 31. The Legislature may submit to the 
 people any Act for their ratification or rejection, 
 and such Act so submitted shall, if approved by a 
 majority of the voters voting at the appointed 
 election become a law." 
 
 It seems to me, Mr. Chaibmax, that, after 
 the word " voting," here, we ought to have 
 inserted the words " for or against such act." 
 
 Now sir, we might have some matter sub- 
 mitted which would not call out an expression 
 from all the voters in the State, and so there 
 might be a good law defeated ; for this ex- 
 pressly says, it must be approved by a ma- 
 jority of the voters voting at the election. I 
 think we ought to have the words *' for or 
 against such act" in here. 
 
 Mr. KING. Mr. Chairman : that same 
 proposition has been offered heretofore, and 
 voted down. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman 
 • insist on his motion ? 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I would make the motion, 
 if in order, to insert the words " for or against 
 said act" after the word " voting." 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. Chaibmas : I rise to 
 a question of order. Was not this bill re- 
 ferred tathe committee of the Whole, for the 
 express piupose of making the amendment 
 to section fourteen ? And is it in order to 
 proceed to make other amendments ? I read 
 from Jefferson's Manual, page eighty-five. 
 
 "A bill on the third reading, is not to be com- 
 mitted for the matter or body thereof, but to re- 
 ceive some particular clause or provi^ ; it hath 
 
 been sometimes suffered, but is a thing very on- 
 usual." 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair so under- 
 stands it. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. Mr. Chaibmas : I move 
 the committee rise. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. Mr. Chaibmax, I hope 
 that motion wiU not prevail now. If we look 
 again at section fourteen, I think we shall see 
 it still requires amendment. I believe a little 
 care — a little more thought on this subject, 
 to be essential to our judicious action. I res- 
 pectfully submit to the committee this laur 
 guage: " Nor shall the compensation of any 
 " public officer be increased or diminished 
 " dining his term of office." Now, if you 
 can neither increase nor diminish the salary, 
 what can you do ? Can you do anything ? 
 "We are to start, sir, with a set of officers to 
 be elected next fall, before the Legislature 
 meets, having no fixed salaries. Now, if you 
 can, tell me what is to be done in these 
 cases? 
 
 A VOICE. "Work for nothing. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. That is true. But do 
 we intend to prescribe that ? All the State 
 officers are to be elected before the Legisla- 
 ture can meet to fix their salaries ; and we here 
 say, they shall neither be increased nor di- 
 minished. Now what will they do. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. Mr. Chaibmax : It seems 
 to me that the construction of my colleague 
 is a forced one. It seems to me that estab- 
 lishing a salary is not increasing it, or dimin- 
 ishing it. These terms have no such close 
 relation. The Legislature may establish the 
 salary of an officer, but then afterwards, it 
 shall neither increase nor diminish it 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Mr. Chaibmax : I second 
 the motion, that the committee rise, report, 
 and recommend the adoption of the amend- 
 ments. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Mr. Chaibmas : will the 
 gentleman withdraw that ? I desire to move 
 to amend the thirty-first section, by adding 
 the word " thereon " after the word " voting," 
 in the third line. It Avill make it better — 
 much more definite. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 The motion, that the committee rise, was 
 now renewed and agreed to ; and, according- 
 ly, the committee rose and the Chairman re- 
 ported the amendments, with a recommenda- 
 tion that the Convention conciu: therein. 
 
518 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, Algust 18. 
 
 The amendments reported were both con- 
 curred in ; and then — 
 
 On motion of Mr. ALDRICH, the rules 
 were suspended so as to allow the report, as 
 amended, to be considered on its third read- 
 ing at this time ; and being read the third 
 time, by its title, it was passed. 
 
 SEAL AND COAT. OF ABMS. 
 
 Mr. KING. . Mr. President : I move to 
 take up number seventeen — the report of the 
 committee of the Seal and Coat of Arms — to 
 be considered on its third reading. 
 
 " The motion was agreed to, and the report 
 was taken up and read through by the Secre- 
 tary. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Mr. Pkesident : I would 
 inquire whether it is the intention, that this 
 report shall be incorporated into the Constitu- 
 tion ? If it is, it seems to me, that it is not 
 in proper shape. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is the opinion of 
 the Chair, that the report is^ not to be a part 
 of the Constitution, 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would inquire, then, 
 how information is to be given to the world, 
 that this is the State Seal ? 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Mr. President : it seems to 
 me this report will go upon the record as part 
 of the proceedings of this Convention ; and 
 if we adopt this seal, it will become the seal 
 of State. The report will not appear in the 
 Constitution any more than such a report ap- 
 pears in the Constitution of any other State 
 where they have a seal ; but it will show in 
 our proceedings what the seal is. If we 
 adopt what this describes for the seal, this 
 goes upon the record as descriptive of it. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. Mr. President : I hope 
 this report is not to become a part of the 
 Constitution ; for although I signed it, it 
 seems to me to require the correction of va- 
 rious errors. If there is no objection, I 
 would like to have the words, " devolved 
 upon," stricken out of the second line of the 
 report, so that it would read : " Your com- 
 " mittce would report, that they have taken 
 "the subject into consideration, &c." It 
 would be better language without these 
 words. There is another discrepancy in the 
 twenty-second line, ■ The sentence is : " In 
 "another, is a view of a river, (which may be 
 " supposed to be the Minnesota,) running to 
 *' the westward, with a steamboat ascefiding 
 
 the stream." Now, the Minnesota river runs 
 eastward ; and the steamboat represented as 
 going up the river, according to this descrip- 
 tion, would be descending the river, for the 
 Minnesota does not run westward. It has 
 been also suggested to nie by several gentle- 
 men, (and I like the suggestion,) that, instead 
 of a steamboat ascending the Minnesota, it 
 would be much more natural and to the life, 
 to have a canoe — on one side, an Indian with 
 a canoe, and on the other, civilization and a 
 sail. If this report is not to be subjected to 
 the strict rules which govern reports on their 
 third reading, I would like to have these 
 amendments made. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. Mr. Chairman: I would 
 move, if this is to go upon the record, that 
 the bill be recommitted to the Standing Com- 
 mittee, and that they be instructed to incor- 
 porate into the report a simple description of 
 the seal, without going much into detail. It 
 has before occurred to me, that this is not ex- 
 actly such a thing as we would like to see 
 upon our record. I think it would be much 
 better, as a simple declaration of what the 
 seal shall be, without the circumstances con- 
 nected with it. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Mr. President: I like 
 the suggestion of the gentleman from Rice 
 county, and was about to make the same mo- 
 tion — that this matter be recommitted to the 
 Standing Committee, with instructions to 
 draft an article to be inserted in the Consti- 
 tution, prescribing what the seal shall be, so 
 that the Constitution shall show what the 
 seal is. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Mr. President : there are 
 many reasons why this report, descriptive of 
 the design of the seal, should be preserved in 
 its present, or in a corrected form. It should 
 be presei'ved to illustrate and give meaning to 
 the design. If there should be nothing but 
 the engraving, without the particular descrip- 
 tion given, no person could form so perfect an 
 idea of the design as might be obtained from 
 the explanation. It is said of -a certain ar- 
 tist, who, for fear his pictures might not be 
 understood, would have them all labelled, as, 
 " This is a Horse," " This is a Dog," or 
 whatsoever the animal might be. I do not 
 say that this would be necessary here ; but I 
 do think any person at all curious about the 
 seal, could not get as correct an idea in any 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 18. 
 
 519 
 
 other way as by a description in an intelli- 
 gent report. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. If all our reports go into 
 the proceedings, of course this will have to 
 go amongst them. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. Mr. Presidest : I like 
 the motion, except the instructions. I hope 
 the Convention will allow the report to go to 
 the committee again without instructions. I 
 find in most of the reports accompanying the 
 seal to other State Constitutional Conventions, 
 a rather broad sketch of their early history 
 intended to be illustrated; and it seems to 
 me that is proper. I am opposed to incor- 
 porating this report into the Constitution, as 
 suggested by the gentleman fi-om St. Antho- 
 ny, (Mr. Secombe) ; but I think it should go 
 upon the record. I think the report very 
 proper as made. And I think, if the report 
 were recommitted without instructions — the 
 committee now understanding what the Con- 
 vention desire to have represented — they 
 would be able at once to make a satisfiictory 
 report. I think it would be much better to 
 recommit vrithout instructions. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I am willing so to modify 
 my motion in that respect. 
 
 Mr. NO RTH. Before the question is taken, 
 I would suggest, inasmuch as there is a diver- 
 sity of opinion in regard to the design and 
 motto, and nobody feels perfectly satisfied 
 with what we have got, whether it would not 
 be well to leave the whole matter to the first 
 Legislature to decide, instead of adopting this 
 in a hasty manner? Perhaps in the interme- 
 diate time more designs and mottoes may be 
 suggested, some of which would give more 
 complete satisfaction. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I should be ver>' glad to 
 have the labor, necessary to present this thing 
 in a proper shape, devolve upon others, but I 
 question much whether the legislative body 
 will give it that necessary attention. I hope 
 the report will be recommitted. There are 
 other mistakes to which I have not called the 
 attention of the Convention. I think if this 
 matter should go upon the record as it now is, 
 it would not be satisfactory, because no per- 
 son by reading this report can tell what our 
 motto, at least, is upon the seal. We sug- 
 gested several and then struck out part. "We 
 also suggested a Latin phrase, and we have 
 stricken that out. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Though I reaUy like this 
 design, I hope the motion of my friend firom 
 Rice county will prevail. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I made no motion ; merely 
 a suggestion. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. WeU, I hope the sugges- 
 tion will be incorporated into a motion, fi-om 
 the fact that between this time and the meet- 
 ing of the Legislature, persons having any 
 taste will be thinking of this thing. It is 
 something any one would be proud to sub- 
 mit. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Unless it be incorporated 
 as an article of the Constitution, I do not see 
 how any body is to be bound by it. It is 
 suggested by gentlemen that it is unprece- 
 dented to incorporate into the Constitution 
 an article descriptive of the seal. But if we 
 merely adopt the report, who knows that it is 
 the Seal of the future State ? If it is the 
 wish of the Convention that it should be 
 placed in an article, I think the subject had 
 better be postponed. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. Can the gentleman point 
 to a Constitution vrhich has a description of 
 the seal in it ? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. It is objected that there 
 is no article ; I then suggested, if there is not, 
 it would not be binding upon the future 
 State. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I beUeve that every State 
 has a copy of the seal in their Constitution, 
 as I said before, with a very short history of 
 the Territory, giving an account by whom 
 discovered, how populated, by whom, what 
 nation, &c. It seems to me that by adopting 
 the report of the Committee, we adopt their 
 seal. I think a seal should go out with the 
 Constitution. I have heard no particular 
 fault found with that suggested by the com- 
 mittee. I like the suggestion of my colleague, 
 a member of tlie committee, (Mr. Billixgs,) 
 to substitute a canoe in the place of the steam- 
 boat. I hope the motion to recommit will 
 prevail. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I hope so. My col- 
 league, (Mr. Lowe,) the Chairman of the 
 Committee is not now present. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. The gentleman is mista- 
 ken in regard to his colleague being Chair- 
 man. During the time I was detained from 
 the Convention by sickness, that gentleman 
 made the report, signing himself as Chairman. 
 
520 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 18. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I know nothing about 
 it except what appears in the report. I do 
 know that he feels great interest in this mat- 
 ter, and would like to be heard. 
 
 The question was then taken, and the re- 
 port was recommitted to the committee. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. KING (at five 
 o'clock and thirty minutes,) the Convention 
 adjourned. 
 
 THIRTY-SECOND DAY. 
 
 Tuesday, August 18, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. m. 
 Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. E. D. Neill. 
 The journal of yesterday was read and 
 approved. 
 
 EEPORTS. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS, from the committee on 
 State Seal and Coat of Arms, made the fol- 
 lowing report, containing a brief and more 
 correct description of the Seal and Coat of 
 Arms, which they reconamended for adoption, 
 viz: 
 
 " The principal feature of the seal is a water fall 
 within a shield, (supposed to represent the Minne- 
 haha Falls.) On one side of the shield is repre- 
 sented an Indian, with his tomahawk, bow and 
 arrows at his feet. Opposite the Indian is the fig- 
 ure of a white man, with a sheaf of wheat and some 
 of the implements of agriculture at his feet. The 
 Indian is depicted with his face toward the setting 
 sun, and as asking of the white man, by an implor- 
 ing gesture, whither he shall go? To this the 
 white man is responding, by pointing to the imple- 
 ments of agriculture before mentioned, as indi- 
 cative that he must now assume the habits of 
 civilized life. In one corner of the field occurs a 
 distant view of Lake Superior, with a ship under 
 sail. In another, is a view of a river (which may 
 be supposed to be the Minnesota,) with a steam- 
 boat ascending its stream to the westward. In 
 rear of the shield and waterfall, three pine trees 
 are placed, representatives of the three great pine 
 regions in Minnesota — that of the St. Croix, that 
 of the Mississrppi, and that of Lake Superior. 
 Above these appears the North Star. 
 
 "For a motto, to accompany the words, 'State 
 of Minnesota, A. D. 1857,' are these words: 
 'Liberty and Union.' " 
 
 The report was read and laid on the table. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR, from tho Committee on en- 
 grossment, reported back as correctly enrolled, 
 report number twenty-three, on Public Pro- 
 perty. 
 
 SCHEDULE. 
 
 On motion of Mr. CLEGHORN, the Con- 
 vention resolved itself into the committee of 
 the Whole, (Mr. Watson in the Chair,) upon 
 report number twenty -four, from the commit- 
 tee on Schedule. [For report see proceedings 
 of August seventeenth.] 
 
 The report was read by sections, for amend- 
 ment. 
 
 "Sec. 6. The first session of the Legislature of 
 the State of Minnesota shall commence on the sec- 
 ond Tuesday'of January, 1858, and shall be held 
 at the Capitol in the city of St. Paul, at which 
 time and place the State Election Commissioner 
 hereinafter provided for, shall attend with a list 
 of the members elect in each house ; and after 
 reading said list to the menxbers assembled, shall 
 call them to order, and act as presiding officer, 
 until a temporary organization shall be effected in 
 each branch. The said State Election Commis- 
 sioner shall likewise communicate to the Legisla- 
 ture, a list of all the State and Judicial officers 
 elected, with an abstract of the votes cast for each; 
 and on the day subsequent to the permanent organ- 
 ization of the Legislature, by the election of per- 
 manent officers thereof, the State and Judicial 
 officers elect, shall appear in the Hall of the House 
 of Eepresentatives, stnd in presence of both 
 branches of the Legislature in Convention assem- 
 bled, shall be publicly sworn into office, and shall 
 thereafter assume and perform all the duties of 
 their several ofiices as enjoined upon them by the 
 provisions of this Constitution." 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. It seems to me that 
 there should be some amendment made in 
 regard to the swearing in of the State oflBcers. 
 The section, as it now stands, provides that 
 the State and Judicial officers elect shall ap- 
 pear in the Hall of the House of Representa- 
 tives, and in presence of both branches of the 
 Legislature in Convention assembled, shall be 
 publicly sworn into office. Now it may so 
 happen, and it has so happened in one or two 
 States, that one branch of the Legislature 
 may be politically opposed to the other, and 
 refuse to meet in joint convention at any time 
 during the entire session. I will prepare an 
 amendment to meet my views. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move to amend the 
 sixth section in the third line, by striking out 
 the words " the Capitol in," so as merely to 
 provide that the first Legislature shall be held 
 in tho city of St. Paul. 
 
 Tho amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I now move to amend 
 by inserting in line fourteen, between the 
 words "presence^" and "of," the words "of 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tcesday, August 18. 
 
 521 
 
 the House of Representatives or." The 
 amendment is ofFered not at all to exclude the 
 idea that the officers should be qualified in 
 the presence of both branches of the legisla- 
 ture, but to obviate the difficulty which might 
 arise in case one branch being poUtically op- 
 posed to the incoming officers, should refuse 
 to meet in joint convention. If the only way 
 they could be qualified was in joint conven- 
 tion, one body might have it in their power 
 to put ofiF their being qualified for any length 
 of time. In one State the election of an Uni- 
 ted States Senator was prevented for a great 
 length of time, because one House, having a 
 majority opposed to the real majority of both 
 Houses in joint convention, refused to go into 
 joint convention. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I think the amendment 
 only meets a part of the difficulty, and that 
 is where the Senate refuses to go into joint 
 session. But in case the House of Represen- 
 tatives should refuse to admit those officers, 
 then the amendment should provide that they 
 may be qualified before the Senate. That 
 would obviate the whole difficulty. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Suppose they both re- 
 fuse? 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move to amend the 
 amendment by striking out all after the word 
 " each" in the eleventh line. I think if the 
 whole of this latter part of the section should 
 be adopted, there would still another difficul- 
 ty arise, which has not yet been mentioned. 
 Suppose some of these State or Judicial offi- 
 cers should fail to appear before both or 
 either branch of the Legislature at that particu- 
 lar time — being detained by sickness, accident 
 or business ; the question arises, how could 
 they be quaUfied as officers ? It strikes me 
 that the whole of this latter part of the sec- 
 tion is an extraordinary piece of Constitu- 
 tional legislation. I do not know where it 
 was found, though I was a member of the 
 committee that reported it. Though my 
 name appears to it, I do not pretend to father 
 but very little of this report. It certainly 
 was not found in the Constitution of "Wiscon- 
 sin, which has been copied up to this time, 
 terhatim et literatim. It seems to me we had 
 better dispense with the whole of it, and al- 
 low our officers to be qualified in the ordinary 
 way, by appearing before some officer quali- 
 fied to administer oaths, and taking the ordi- 
 66 
 
 nary oath of office. If there is any good 
 reason why these words should be retained, 
 I do not know it. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The motion of the gen- 
 tleman from Chisago, (Mr. Stasnaed,) must 
 be first put, and then the other amendment 
 will be in order. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS moved to amend by striking 
 out the words " at the Capitol in the city of 
 " St. Paul," in the third line, and inserting the 
 words " at the city of St. Peter, in the Capi- 
 " tol buildings erected on the site selected by 
 " building Commissioners, Secombe, et. al. 
 
 Mr. LOWE. I hope that amendment will 
 prevail. We all know that the expense of 
 living in St. Paul has been more than it ought 
 to be, and I am of opinion that we might hve 
 more economically in St. Peter. I speak of 
 those who have occasion to assemble at the 
 Capital. It is on that ground that that I favor 
 the amendment. I believe the people of St. 
 Peter, for the sake of getting the Capital there, 
 would be willing to furnish us with accommo- 
 dations at a reasonable price. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I hope it wiU prevail for 
 this reason also, that St. Peter has failed in 
 her endeavors to carry a great many things 
 thus far, and if we can give her a lift now, we 
 better do it, and satisfy our friends and keep 
 them from bolting. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I would inquire as to 
 the convenience of the building at St. Peter. 
 Is it as convenient as this ? 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. Has it got two ends 
 to it ? [Laughter.] 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I would say that the build- 
 ing is quite as good, if not better than this, 
 and upon the site selected by the Com- 
 missioners. As to St. Peter having failed in 
 everything she has undertaken, I would in- 
 form the gentleman from Rice county that he 
 is mistaken. She has endeavored to get up 
 a good city there, and she has done it. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I now move to strike 
 out all after the word " each " in the eleventh 
 line. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I move to strike out 
 " Tuesday " in the second line, and insert 
 
522 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tdesd ay, August 18. 
 
 the words " Thursday at twelve o'clock M." 
 Tuesday is a bad day, and will compel mem- 
 bers to travel on the Sabbath to get here. Wc 
 have heard a great deal about breaking the 
 Sabbath in the organization of this Conven- 
 tion. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. I move to strike out all 
 after the words, " in each branch," in the 
 eighth line. I hope before gentlemen vote 
 upon my amendment, they wall look carefully 
 at the clause I propose to strike out. I am 
 aware that the Chairman of the committee on 
 the Schedule is a man of a liigh sense of pro- 
 priety, but it seems to me that he is giving a 
 little more dignity to the oflBcers contemplated 
 by this section, than is absolutely necessary, 
 in initiating them into oflBce in a country like 
 this. They must all appear at the Capitol, 
 and in the presence of both branches of the 
 Legislature they must take an oath to support 
 the Constitution of the State of Minnesota,^ 
 and then they must retire formally, I sup- 
 pose, to the discharge of the duties of their 
 respective offices. So much formality seems 
 to me unnecessary. Although it is a solemn 
 thing to take an oath of office at any time, it 
 seems to me that it is not necessary to come 
 to St. Paul or St. Peter, and before the Le- 
 gislature, to do it. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move to amend the 
 amendment by striking out all after the word 
 " each," in the eleventh line, and the words, 
 " and shall," in the fifteenth line, and insert 
 the following : 
 
 "And the several persons elected to the said of- 
 fices shall, as soon as may be practicable thereaf- 
 ter, be sworn into office before any person author- 
 ized to administer oaths, and shall file their oaths 
 of office in the office of the Secretary of State." 
 
 The amendment to the amendment was not 
 agrped to. 
 
 The amendment was then agreed to. 
 
 Mr. PECKIIAM. The first part of this 
 section provides that the Election Commission- 
 er shall, at the assemblmg of the Legislature, 
 attend with a list of the members elect in 
 each House. Now the Election Commissioner 
 cannot perform that duty unless ho has the 
 power of being in two places at the same 
 time. I move to strike out the whole sec- 
 tion, and something else can be substituted 
 for it. Wc have already stricken out the lat- 
 
 ter half, and I move to strike out the first 
 half. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I move to strike out the 
 word " second," in the second line, and insert 
 " first," so as to provide for the meeting of 
 the Legislature on the first Thursday of 
 January. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I move the following sub- 
 stitute for the section : 
 
 "The first session of the Legislature of the 
 State of Minnesota shall commence on the first 
 Thursday of Janury next, at 10 o'clock A. M., and 
 shall be held at the city of St. Paul, which shall be 
 and remain the seat of Government until other- 
 wise provided by law." 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I move to amend the 
 amendment by striking out all after the 
 words, " Saint Paul," and inserting, " until 
 "the year 1865, when the seat of Govern- 
 " ment shall be permanently established by 
 " the Legislature." 
 
 The amendment to the amendment, and 
 the amendment itself, were rejected. 
 
 " Sec. 7. All county, precinct and township of- 
 ficers, shall continue to hold their respective offices 
 unless removed by the competent authority, until 
 the Legislature shall provide by law for filling such 
 offices respectively in conformity with the provis- 
 ions of this Constitution." 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I move to insert the 
 words, " and municipal," after the word 
 " township." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move to strike out 
 all after the word " authority." If we adopt 
 the whole of this section, no county officer 
 can be elected, in my judgment, at the time 
 our State officers are elected, or at the time 
 our Constitution is adopted. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. 8. The President of this Convention 
 shall, immediatel}' after its adjournment, cause a 
 fair copy of this Constitution to be forwarded to 
 the President of the United States, to bo laid be- 
 fore the Congress of the United States at its next 
 session." 
 
 Mr. KEMP moved to strike out the word 
 " fair." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD moved to strike out all 
 after the words, " United States." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Tcesdat^ Acctrsr 18. 
 
 528 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I now move to strike 
 out the balance of the section. I do not see 
 any object in forwarding a copy of the Con- 
 stitution to the President of the United 
 States, any more than in forwarding a copy 
 to Mike Walsh, in the city of New York. 
 He has nothing to do with it until it is rati- 
 fied by the people. It might give him some 
 information about what we have been doing 
 here, but he can get that from the papers just 
 as well 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. It seems to me that the 
 provisions in section nine, for voting upon 
 this Constitution, are not sufficiently definite. 
 Its language is this: "On such ballots as 
 " are for the Constitution, shall be written or 
 " printed the word ' yes,' and on such as are 
 . " against the Constitution, the word ' no.' " 
 Now that day of election is the day of the 
 Territorial Election, and it is not impossible 
 that there may be submitted to the people on 
 that day two Constitutions. If that should 
 be the case, and a ballot should be handed in 
 to the officer, simply with the words " yes" 
 or *' no " upon it, what xmderstanding would 
 the officer get from it ? I propose to amend 
 by inserting before the word "yes" the 
 words, " the Constitution adopted August — , 
 " 1857," and before the word "no " the same 
 language. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. Suppose both Constitu- 
 tions should be adopted the same day ? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I have left the date for 
 the day blank, as it is not probable they will 
 be adopted by the Conventions on the same 
 day. If they should be, some further desig- 
 nation would be needed. 
 
 Mr. KEMP. I move to amend the amend- 
 ment so that it shall substantiaDy read, " The 
 " Republican Constitution, adopted Aug. — , 
 " 1857, &c." Then the people in the country 
 will be sure to know what Constitution they 
 are voting for ; whereas, imder the other 
 form, they might be ignorant of the day upon 
 which the two respective Constitutions were 
 passed. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I shall vote for this 
 amendment, if it will obviate the difficulty 
 which, it has occurred to us, might be in the 
 way, ever since we have been forming this 
 Constitution. The question with us has been, 
 how shall we get this Constitution before the 
 
 people, and have the vote upon it properly 
 defined, if another Constitution should also 
 be before the people ? That problem has not 
 yet been satisfactorily solved. How can a 
 distinction, be made between tiie two ? It 
 seems to me that the proposed amendment 
 does not get rid of the difficulty. And as to 
 labelling it " Republican," that would be a 
 little out of character, when in fact it should 
 be and is, a Constitution for the people of the 
 State of Minnesota. I do not know that any 
 distinction at all can be made. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Can any other ballots on 
 that day be received by the Commissioners 
 appointed imder the provisions of this report, 
 except ballots which are cast for or against 
 this Constitution? If these Commissioners 
 were empowered on that day to receive ballots 
 for other purposes, there might be confusion. 
 But it seems to me that these Commissioners 
 have nothing else to do. They must have a 
 box distinctly devoted to this Constitution, 
 and there can be no difficulty arising. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The judges of election, 
 under the article adopted, are the judges 
 under the Territorial organization — the pri- 
 mary officers for receiving the votes. The 
 Commissioners appointed ^re merely the 
 County Commissioners to whom those rotes 
 are returned. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I do not think it is worth 
 while to spend too much time upon this. It 
 seems to be the impression, that through the 
 Committee of Conferenc**, there will be but 
 one Constitution submitted, or if that is not 
 done, that an arrangement will be made by 
 which the two shall be submitted upon the 
 same day. 
 
 Mr. MILLS. I hope this section will be 
 permitted to remain as it is, and if any dis- 
 tinction is to be made, let the other party 
 make it. 
 
 The amendment to the amendment, and 
 the amendment itself, were rejected. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL moved to amend sec- 
 tion nine, specifying the qualifications of 
 those who shall vote upon the Constitution, 
 by striking out " three months " and insert- 
 ing " thirty days," so that it shall read — 
 
 " All persons who have resided in the proposed 
 State thirtv days, and are otherwise duly qualified 
 kc, shall be entitled to vote for or against the 
 adoption of this Constitution, and for all officers 
 first elected under it." 
 
524 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES—Tuesdat, August 18. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. It appears to me that 
 three month's residence is a short period 
 enough. We know that two or three thou- 
 sand voters will be brought into the Territory 
 to work upon the railroads, thirty days or 
 more before election, and I do not think they 
 are prepared to vote upon our Constitution. 
 
 Mr. KING. I do not think the objection 
 of the gentleman from Chisago is exactly 
 right. We know that the Republicans will 
 act honestly, while the other side will not. 
 They will import votes anyhow, and put 
 them through. Now I want to have as good 
 a chance as they, without violating any law 
 or principle. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I hope before mem- 
 bers vote this amendment down, they will 
 take into consideration the circumstances 
 which surround us, and the rights of the 
 actual residents of this Territory who expect 
 to remain here, in regard to voting either for 
 or against this Constitution. As far as I am 
 concerned, I have no knowledge of any inten- 
 tion of importing three or four thousand men 
 into our Territory within the next forty or 
 sixty days, and indeed, I do not believe there 
 is any intention upon the part of any one to 
 carry out a scheme of that character. It 
 seems to me that there cannot be a very large 
 importation of men by Republicans or Demo- 
 crats between the time this Constitution shall 
 be sent forth from our hands, and the time 
 when the people will be called to vote upon 
 it. And furthermore, I can see no inducement. 
 Men certainly will not be brought here for 
 the purpose of commencing operations on our 
 railroads, and if they are brought here at all, 
 it will be for the purpose of voting for or 
 against this Constitution. We have no right 
 to suppose that our friends, or our political 
 enemies, will resort to any such measures. 
 Now it seems to me that every person who 
 comes into our territory with the intention 
 of making his permanent residence among us, 
 should have the right to vote for or against 
 this Constitution. It is to effect n(rt only 
 him, but his posterity for all time to come, 
 and it seems to me as though we could trust 
 him with that right. For the purpose of 
 securing them that right, I want at least no 
 longer than thirty days' residence in the Ter- 
 ritory required. In Wisconsin, every bona, 
 fide resident was permitted to vote for or 
 
 against her Constitution. But I do not pro- 
 pose to go as far as the Constitutional Con- 
 vention of Wisconsin went. I would require 
 a residence of thirty days, which I think is 
 long enough to manifest an intention of re- 
 maining, and of making this their permanent 
 home. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I move to amend the 
 amendment by striking ont "thirty" and 
 inserting " ten." 
 
 The amendment to the amendment was not 
 agreed to. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 Mr. ROBBINS moved to amend the ninth 
 section by inserting after the word " appoint- 
 ment," line sixteenth, page seven, the fol- 
 lowing : 
 
 "He, (the State Election Commissioner) shall 
 also appoint three judges of election in each elec- 
 tion precinct within the limits of the proposed 
 State, whose duty it shall be to receive the votes 
 upon the Constitution, and make a transcript of 
 the same to the appointed Election Commissioners 
 of the particular county or district." 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS said : — My reason for offer- 
 ing this amendment is, that in many of the 
 precincts of my coimty — and I suppose the 
 same is true of other counties — the present 
 judges of election are Democrats, and will not 
 receive the votes upon this Constitution, or 
 recognize the action of this Convention in 
 any manner whatever. To make it certain 
 that we shall have a full return of votes upon 
 the Constitution, there should be a full set of 
 officers appointed, from State Commissioner 
 do^\Tl to precinct officers. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. This section ap- 
 points St. a. D. Balcombe State Election 
 Commissioner, to perform such duties in 
 regard to the voting upon this Constitution 
 as are now required by law to be performed 
 by the Secretary of the Territory in regard to 
 other elections ; and if, in case he is unable 
 to act, he may designate his successor. Sup- 
 pose he should die and fail to do so? It 
 seems to me that further provision should be 
 made to meet every possible contingency. 
 
 Mr. MILLS. I would enquire whether it 
 would not be the duty of the couflty commis- 
 sioners of each county to look after that 
 particular county, in regard to the precinct 
 election officers ? 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. I think not, under this 
 section as it now stands. I think perhaps it 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, Acgcst 18. 
 
 525 
 
 k 
 
 would be better to have the county commis- 
 sioners appoint these precinct oflBcers, rather 
 than that the State Commissioiier should 
 do it. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. BOBBINS. I move to amend by 
 striking out all after the word " same " in the 
 ninteenth line, page seven. The portion 
 which I move to strike out provides for the 
 election of State officers and members of 
 Congress on some day subsequent to the 
 adoption of the Constitution. My object is 
 to eUcit an expression of opinion on this one 
 point — whether it would be advisable to have 
 the election for such officers on the same day 
 we vote upon the Constitution or not. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. Members seem quite in- 
 dififerent about this whole report. I suppose 
 it arises from the expectation of some com- 
 promise, which will render our labors upon 
 this report useless. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move that the com- 
 mittee rise, report progi'ess, and ask leave to 
 sit again. This report has been laid upon our 
 tables this morning and we have not had time 
 to consider it. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. I ask for the question on 
 my amendment first. 
 
 The question was taken and the anendment 
 was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I now make my mo- 
 tion. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. The reason for the mo- 
 tion certainly is a good one. I would like to 
 have it deferred untU we can have time to in- 
 vestigate it. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the com- 
 mittee accordingly rose, reported progress and 
 asked leave to sit again. 
 
 Leave was granted. 
 
 COMPBOMISE PROCEEDINGS. 
 
 The Sergeant-at-Arms announced Mr. J. J. 
 Noah, Secretary of the Convention in the 
 west end of the Capitol, charged with a com- 
 munication, in writing, from the President of 
 that body ; which was laid upon the Presi- 
 dent's table. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move that the Con- 
 vention take a recess untU two and a half 
 o'clock. 
 
 The motion was lost. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move a call of the 
 Convention. 
 
 The PRESIDENT decided that a call was 
 not ordered. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I hold that a single 
 member may demand a call. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair thinks that 
 it requires ten members. Rule thirty is ex- 
 plicit upon that point. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I submit to the ruling 
 of the Chair. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I move that the Conven- 
 tion take a recess for twenty minutes, for the 
 purpose of going into caucus. 
 
 The motion was lost. 
 
 (Cries of "read" "read.") 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I move that this Conven- 
 tion take a recess until two and a half o'clock. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 (Renewed cries of " read" " read.") 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move that the commu- 
 nication laid upon the table be now read. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. KEMP. I rise to a question of order. 
 That communication is not business connec- 
 ted with this Convention. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The communication 
 has been ordered to be read. 
 
 The communication was read, and is as 
 follows : 
 
 " Capitol, St. Pacl, August, 18th 1857. 
 Hox. St. a. D. Balcombe, 
 
 President : 
 "Sir: — The Convention over which I preside 
 has this day penned a resolution authorizing me 
 ' to appoint a committee of five to confer with a 
 committee appointed by the Convention holding 
 sessions in the Representatives Hall of this Capi- 
 tol,' designated in your communication of this 
 day. 
 
 " In pursuance of said resolution, 1 have ap- 
 pointed Messrs. (tOeSax, Browx, Holcoube, Shkr- 
 BCRXE and Kdcgsburt such committee. 
 
 " A certified copy of the resolution referred to 
 is herewith enclosed. 
 
 Very Respectfully, 
 
 Your Obedient Servant, 
 
 H. H. SIBLEY, President' 
 " JSesohed, That the President of this Conven- 
 tion is hereby authorized to appoint a committee 
 of five, to confer with a committee appointed by 
 the Convention holding sessions in the Represen- 
 tative Hall in this Capitol, upon the subject desig- 
 nated in the communication just received, and that 
 the President is hereby authorized to communi- 
 cate the action of this Convention to the Conven- 
 tion over which the Hon. Mr. Baux>iibe presides. 
 "A true copy. 
 
 Attest, J. J. NOAH, Secretary. 
 
526 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 18. 
 
 The Convention then took a recess until 
 half past two o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 THE SCHEDULE. 
 
 On motion by Mr. HARDING, the Con- 
 Whole, (Mr. Wilson in the Chair,) and re- 
 vention resolved itself again into committee of 
 the sumed the consideration of the Schedule, 
 (Report number twenty-four.) 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM proposed further to amend 
 the ninth section, by adding in the ninth line, 
 the words " the Secretary of this Convention 
 " — L. A. Babcock," so as toappoint two, in- 
 steiid of one State Election Commissioner, 
 viz: St. Andkew D. Balcojxbe, and L. A. 
 Babcock. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 The section was then made to correspond 
 grammatically, with the last amendment, cre- 
 ating two Commissioners instead of one. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I ask leave of the 
 committee to move that the committee rise, 
 report progress and ask leave to sit again. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The committee accordingly rose, reported 
 progress and asked leave to sit again. 
 
 Leave was granted. 
 
 On motion of Mr. GaLBRAITII, the Con- 
 vention then took a recess for fifteen minutes. 
 
 At the expiration of the time of this recess, 
 the President resumed the chair, and the Con- 
 vention resolved itself again into committee 
 of the Whole — Mr. Colburn in the Chair 
 — and resumed the consideration of the Sched- 
 ule. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE moved so to amend as to 
 authorize the County Commissioners to ap- 
 point three judges of electiSn to each election 
 precinct, which was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MILLS moved to amend section nine 
 by striking out the words " and vacancies in 
 the election oflBces filled." 
 
 The clause reads as follows : 
 
 "The election shall be conducted in all respects, 
 and vacancies in the election oiliccs filled, in the 
 manner now prescribed by law." 
 
 The araendiyent was agi'ced to. 
 
 Section ten was then read, which pro^'ides 
 for districting the State for members of the 
 Senate and House of Representatives. 
 
 Mr. HARDING moved to amend by strik- 
 ing out the word " three" ami insert " four," 
 so as to make it read : 
 
 "In the seventh district, the County of Dodge 
 and the County of Steele shall together elect four 
 representatives and one senator." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I think before the com- 
 mittee do that they had better ascertain 
 where they are going to cut off an additional 
 representative. I suppose this apportionment 
 has been made for a certain number. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I would like to know upon 
 what basis this apportionment was made? 
 It seems to me there is something wrong, but 
 I do not know where it is. I see Olmsted 
 county is allowed four representatives and 
 one senator, while the counties of Dodge and 
 Steele have only three representatives and 
 one senator. I know there is a greater popu- 
 lation in those counties than there is in Olm- 
 sted county. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to amend so that 
 Dodge county shall have two representatives 
 and Steele two representatives, and they to- 
 gether one senator. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I do not know as I shall 
 have a better opportunity to say a few words 
 upon some things I notice in this report, than 
 the present. The question has been asked, 
 what basis has been taken in making out this 
 report. It would seem as though no regular 
 basis had been taken. For instance, in the 
 first district the county of Houston has four 
 representatives and one senator. There is a 
 senator to four representatives. In the sec- 
 ond district, the county of Fillmore has four 
 representatives and two senators. There is 
 a senator to two representatives. In the 
 third district, the county of Mower has two 
 representatives and one senator. There again 
 is one senator to two representatives. In the 
 fifth district, Winona has four representatives 
 and the county of Wabashaw two represen- 
 tatives, and together they have two senators — 
 in all six representatives and two senators — 
 one senator to three representatives. And so 
 on throughout the section. 
 
 Without going any farther, we find three 
 ratios — a senator to two, to three, and to four 
 representatives. Now I cannot see that there 
 is any basis there. It seems to be a sort of 
 sliding scale. I presume there is sonie com- 
 pensation somewhere. If they could not give 
 a county a sufficient number of representa- 
 tives, tliey have given it more senators. But 
 certainly there does not seem to have been 
 any fair apportionment. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES-Wbdnesdat, August 1». 
 
 627 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I Avithdraw my amend- 
 ment to the amendment. 
 
 Mr. MAXTOR. I do not wish to discuss 
 this nvittev. But I am satisfied that Dodge 
 and Steele have a larger population than some 
 counties which are allowed four representa- 
 tives. I am quite well acquainted with Dodge 
 county and some portions of Steele county, 
 and I am satisfied, from personal knowledge 
 of that fact. I do not think it will be doing 
 more than justice to that district to give them 
 another rejDresentative. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 Mr. ^7ATS0X. It is provided in the 
 eighth district, that Waseca shall elect one 
 representative and Freeborn one representa- 
 tive, and they together one senator. Now I 
 am satisfied that there is something vsrong 
 about that. I know that those two counties 
 are entitled to a larger representation. Their 
 population as handed in to the committee 
 was 9000, and they have only one represen- 
 tative each. As the apportionment was first 
 made by the committee, Freeborn and Fari- 
 bault coimties were put together as one 
 district, and given three representatives. The 
 district was afterwards recast and Freeborn 
 and "Waseca were put together, and allowed 
 only two representatives ; whereas, they are 
 better entitled to three than Freeborn and 
 Faribault. I move to add, after the word 
 "elect," the words "one representative and." 
 That will give each county one representative, 
 and together one senator. 
 
 Mr. MURPHY. It seems every district 
 wants an additional representative. Now 
 when we come to our district we shall want 
 the same addition. It seems to me that this 
 is not right, and that the report had better be 
 referred back to the committee for their re- 
 vision. 
 
 Mr. WATSON. We might just as well 
 say tliat every report, which we do not per- 
 fectly agree upon, shall be referred back. I 
 think we can fix this matter up here just as 
 well. 
 
 The amendment was rgreed to. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. There is evidently no 
 quorum present, and I move that the com- 
 mittee rise. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the commit- 
 tee accordingly rose and reported that the 
 
 Convention had found itself without a quo- 
 rum. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr.-MURPHY, (at 
 4 o'clock and 20 minutes) the Convention 
 adjourned. 
 
 THIRTY-THIRD DAY. 
 
 Wednesday, August 19th, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. m. 
 Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. E. D. Neill. 
 The Journal of yesterday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 THE SCHEDULE. 
 
 On motion of Mr. HARDING, the Convention 
 resolved itself into Committee of the Whole, 
 Mr. CoLBUBN in the chair, and resumed the 
 consideration of the Schedule. 
 
 The Clerk resumed the reading of the tenth 
 section by clauses. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. In the thirteenth district, I 
 move to strike out "one" afl;er Nicollet, and 
 insert "two," so as to give Nicollet two rep- 
 resentatives. That county has probably 
 between 6500 and 7000 inhabitants. It is 
 one of the oldest counties in Minnesota — has 
 several large towns, and is tliickly settled. I 
 have no desire to ask anything more than is 
 right for my county, but what is right I do 
 demand, and hope the Convention will not 
 refuse to grant it. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 Mr. SMITH. In the twelfth district, I move 
 to amend so as to give Carver county two 
 representatives instead of one. I do not 
 know upon what basis this division is made, 
 but I think she is entitled to two representa- 
 tives. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. The basis is 8000 for 
 senator and 3000 for representative. 
 
 Mr. SMITH. AU I ask for Carver county, 
 is her due representation. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. In regard to Carver 
 county, I think the apportionment was made 
 upon actual returns, while that of other coun- 
 ties was made upon estimates. My belief is 
 that Carver contains a larger population than 
 Nicollet. I was opposed to giving Nicollet 
 county an additional representative. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. The committee labored 
 under some disadvantage in making this ap- 
 portionment. They obtained the population 
 
528 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesdat, August 19. 
 
 of each county as best they could. Gentle- 
 men handed in their estimates, in the first 
 place ; and then the committee took the vote 
 which was cast in the respective counties at 
 the last election and made estimates from 
 them, and in these various ways they arrived 
 at their conclusions to the best of their abil- 
 ity. Eight thousand was then made the ba- 
 sis for Senator and three thousand for Repre- 
 sentative. If, in some instances where the 
 population fell short of what was required for 
 one Senator, the committee gave one Senator, 
 but in some measure compensated by giving 
 less than the number of Representatives the 
 county was entitled to. This was the onl}"- 
 course they could pursue, and in the aggre- 
 gate they considered it as nearly right as pos- 
 sible. 
 
 Mr. SMITH. I move that Carver county 
 be allowed two representatives. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 ■ Mr. NORTH. In the tenth district, Da- 
 kota is allowed four representatives and Rice 
 three representatives, and they together elect 
 three Senators. I move as a substitute for 
 that provision the following : 
 
 "In the tenth district the county of Dakota 
 shall elect three Representatives and two Sena- 
 tors; and the county of Rice three Representa- 
 tives and two Senators." 
 
 The substitute was adopted. 
 
 Mr. GERRISH moved to amend the pro- 
 vision for the fifth district, by giving Winona 
 and Wabashaw counties one additional repre- 
 sentative each, and increasing their Senators 
 from two to three. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. The tenth district has 
 been altered so as to give Dakota and Rice 
 counties each three representatives and two 
 Senators. I think, now, they should consti- 
 tute separate districts. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I have just prepared an 
 amendment to the following effect : 
 
 "In the tenth district, the county of Dakota 
 shall elect three Representatives and two Sena- 
 tors; and 
 
 " in the twenty-first district, the county of Rice 
 shall elect three Representatives and two Sena- 
 tors." 
 
 That will make them separate districts, 
 and by placing Rico county as the twenty- 
 first district, we avoid the necessity of cliang- 
 
 ing all the numbers of the districts following 
 the tenth. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 " Skc. 11. The several elections provided for 
 by this article, shall be conducted according to the 
 existing laws, except as is otherwise herein provi- 
 ded , and the returns of the elections for all offi- 
 cers shall be made to the county election commis- 
 sioners ; and a full abstract of all the votes cast 
 for each and every office shall be made to the State 
 election commissioners, who shall make public 
 proclamation of the aggregate of the votes cast 
 for each office, in every district, and of the per- 
 sons in each district who are elected to the several 
 offices voted for." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE moved to amend section 
 eleven by adding thereto the following : 
 
 "And the several persons so declared elected to 
 the said offices, shall, as soon as practicable there- 
 after, take and subscribe the requisite oath of of- 
 fice, before any officer authorized to administer 
 oaths, which said oaths of office shall be filed in 
 the office of the Secretary of State ; and the said 
 persons shall immediately thereafter enter upon 
 the duties of their said offices." 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. That amendment covers 
 the ground of a provision in section six, for a 
 similar purpose, which the committee struck 
 out yesterday. Now I prefer that portion of 
 section six to this amendment. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. It is not similar, but rad- 
 ically different from the proposition struck 
 out yesterday. That provision was that on 
 the next day after the organization of the 
 Legislature all the officers elect should ap- 
 pear in one branch of the Legislature, and 
 in the presence of both branches in Conven- 
 tion assembled, take the oath of oflice ; and 
 if they failed to take the oath at the time and 
 in the manner prescribed, there was no pro- 
 vision made for their doing so at any other 
 time, or in a different manner. The proposi- 
 tion I have submitted, it seems to me, would 
 remedy all the difficulties which were sug- 
 gested then. It does not require the oflBcers 
 to come to any particular place, but that they 
 may take and subscribe the oath in the man- 
 ner in which it is usually done, before any 
 proper officer. 
 
 Mr. KING. Does it apply to town and 
 county officers ? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. To all officers mentioned 
 in the section. It might, perhaps, be well to 
 change the place of filing the oath, although 
 in the first instance the office of the Secretary 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wedxesdat, Acgcst 19. 
 
 529 
 
 of State would, perhaps, be the only place 
 where they could be filed. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. It seems to me necessary 
 that some provision of that kind should be 
 inserted here, for the reason that there is no 
 provision elsewhere prescribing how and 
 when those officers shall take upon themselves 
 the duties of their respective offices. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. . 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I notice in the twelfth 
 section, dividing the State into two -Congress- 
 ional districts, the new counties, which were 
 formed last winter out of Brown county, are 
 not included. 
 
 Mr. SMITH. I move to amend the twelfth 
 section, by adding after the names constitu- 
 ting the second Congressional district the fol- 
 lowing : 
 
 "And all counties which now exist, or may 
 hereafter be formed north of the Minnesota river 
 and forty-fifth degree of north latitude, not other- 
 wise provided for." 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I would suggest the 
 propriety of obtaining from the Secretary of 
 the Territory, the names of the new counties, 
 in preference to adopting an amendment so 
 indefinite. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 The twelfth section, apportioning the State 
 into judicial districts was then read. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I have an amendment 
 which afiects three or four of the districts, 
 and I will move the amendments as one. It 
 is to amend by taking the county of Dakota 
 from the first judicial circuit and annexing it 
 to the fourth ; by taking the county of Sibley 
 from the third, and the counties of Le Sueur 
 and Nicollet from the fourth, and annexing 
 them to the fifth ; and by taking the counties 
 of Mower and Dodge fi-om the fiflh and an- 
 nexing them to the sixth. 
 
 The reasons for my amendment are these : 
 The county of Dakota is placed in the first 
 district with Ramsey. Now my belief is, 
 that the county of Ramsey has more legal 
 business than any other circuit in the State, 
 while the fourth judicial district is one him- 
 dred and sixty miles long, and only fifty or 
 sixty miles wide — a very bad shape. By ad- 
 ding Dakota to it, the shape will be improved. 
 
 The counties of Sibley, Le Sueur and Nic- 
 ollet, added to the Fiflh Judicial Circuit, will 
 67 
 
 make it a compact district, and one of good 
 shape. 
 
 Mower and Dodge added to the Sixth 
 will make a district of six counties, and be 
 compact. 
 
 That is the arrangement which I under- 
 stand was first made by the Committee, and 
 so read to a portion of the members • assem- 
 bled here. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I beheve these judicial 
 circuits, as reported by the Committee, are in 
 accordance with the wishes of most of the 
 members who represent these various dis- 
 tricts. I do not see the necessity of the 
 change proposed. I think the districts, as 
 now arranged are of contigious territory and 
 very compact, and thej^ have been arranged 
 upon consultation with the members from the 
 various localities. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. The gentleman objects to 
 the Fourth District as being in. very bad 
 shape, and he proposes to correct it by ad- 
 ding Dakota coimty to the district. Now all 
 I have to say in that regard is, that I think 
 the inhabitants of that district would be very 
 well satisfied with the arrangement made by 
 the committee, and that they would not be 
 particularly desirous of having Dakota added. 
 And as far as the shape is concerned, it ap- 
 pears to me that it is made worse by that ad- 
 dition. It would not add one iota to the 
 symmetry of the district. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I proposed not only to 
 add Dakota, but to take away the counties of 
 Le Sueur and Nicollet. That would shorten 
 the district fifty miles. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I did not hear that part 
 of the gentleman's proposition. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The adoption of the 
 amendment proposed by the gentleman from 
 Hennepin will leave the report in exactly the 
 shape in which it was first proposed by the 
 committee, upon consultation with gentlemen 
 of the bar, and read to the Convention in 
 caucus. No objections were made to it, but 
 since, alterations have been mad€ by the com- 
 mittee which are proposed to be changed back 
 again by the gentleman from Hennepin. The 
 original arrangement was made upon request 
 of the members of the committee on the 
 Schedule, that certain gentlemen, members of 
 the bar, should propose a plan. A plan was 
 proposed and adopted by the committee, and 
 
530 MINNESOTA CONVENTMION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 19. 
 
 submitted to the members of the Convention 
 in caucus, and no individual made an objec- 
 tion to it, I believe it should be changed 
 back to its original form. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. There were some 
 changes made, at the request of members 
 from these various localities, after the subject 
 had bean submitted to the members in cau- 
 cus. The different districts are satisfactory 
 to the members from those districts, and 
 while that is so, members from other districts 
 ought not to object. If the gentleman wishes 
 to make a change in his own district, I have 
 no objection, but I object to his urging the 
 change of other districts which are entirely- 
 satisfactory to the representatives from those 
 districts. 
 
 Mr. M ANT OR. I hope the amendment 
 will not prevail. I am opposed to any change 
 in the shape of the Fifth District. When the 
 report was. first made in caucus I was in favor 
 of having Dodge county attached to the Sixth 
 District as now proposed by the gentleman 
 from Hennepin, but upon more mature con- 
 sideration I am satisfied that the present ar- 
 rangement is the better one. I ask it as a 
 matter of favor, to say the least of it, that we 
 shall be permitted to have the matter our own 
 way. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. As members seem to be 
 satisfied with the changes which have been 
 made in their own districts, I withdraw my 
 amendment, as a whole, and move to amend 
 by striking Sibley county from the Third Dis- 
 trict, and attaching it to the Fifth. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I really hope the good 
 sense of the Convention will vote that down. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the good sense of 
 the Convention will adopt it. The amend- 
 ment of the gentleman from Hennepin was 
 withdrawn, with the understanding that an 
 amendment might be made so far as the Third 
 District is concerned. 
 
 Mr. WATSON. The gentleman from Hen- 
 nepin seems to have a nice idea of symmetri- 
 cal forms. If they are desirous of getting 
 rid of Sibley, I hope they will attach it to the 
 Fourth District, instead of the Fifth. It 
 would be distorting the Fifth District out of 
 all proper shape. 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I would call the atten- 
 tion of the Convention to the eighth section, for 
 
 the transmission of a copy of this Constitution, 
 immediately after our adjournment, to the 
 President of the United States. I would like 
 to have it amended so as to provide that the 
 President of this Convention immediately after 
 the adoption of the Constitution by the peo- 
 ple, shall transmit a copy to the President of 
 the United States. I do not see the propriety 
 of forwarding a copy before its adoption by 
 the people. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I move to strike out the 
 whole section. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. Whose duty, then, will 
 it be to forward a copy to the President? It 
 appears to me that if the people adopt this 
 Constitution, it should be sent to Congress 
 for ratification by them, and we should make 
 it the duty of some one to transmit a copy. 
 The President of the Convention is the proper 
 person to do it. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I suppose we shall have 
 a delegate in Congress whose duty it will be 
 to present this Constitution to Congress. 
 
 The motion to strike out was lost. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I move to amend section 
 nine by inserting before the words "yes" 
 and " no," respectively, the words "the Con- 
 stitution of the State of Minnesota" so that 
 the clause shall read : 
 
 "On such ballots as are for the Constitution, 
 shall be written or printed the words ■' The Con- 
 stitution of the State of Minnesota, Yes," and on 
 such as are against the Constitution, the words, 
 "The Constitution of the State of Minnesota, 
 "No." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. It strikes me tliat the 
 term " Commission OflBcers," is not a very 
 good term by which to designate those per- 
 sons to whom the returns are to be made. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move to strike out 
 those words and substitute " Election Com- 
 missioners." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. NORTH moved to amend section nine, 
 page seven, line fifteen, by inserting " elec- 
 tion" between the words "county" and 
 " commissioners." 
 
 The amendmend was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. I move to amend that part 
 of section ten, which refers to the Sixth Sen- 
 atorial District, by striking out "one" and 
 inserting "two," sotliat it shall read— 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wedxesday, AvorsT 19. 
 
 531 
 
 k 
 
 In the sixth district, the county of Olmsted 
 shall elect four representatives and two senator. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I hope that amendment 
 will prevail, and I think no other reference 
 need be made, than to the amendment which 
 was made to the tenth district, giving Dakota 
 and Rice counties three representatives and 
 two senators each. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. COE. I move to amend the provision 
 in reference to the first district, so as to give 
 Houston county two senators instead of one. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to amend the 
 provisions for_the sixteenth and seventeenth 
 districts by strildnj out " Benton, Morrison 
 and Todd " from the former district, and in- 
 serting them in the latter , and by striking 
 out "Steams and Sherburne" from the 
 second of those ^two districts, and inserting 
 them in the first. 
 
 My reason is that the two representative 
 districts in those two senatorial districts are 
 entirely separated by an intervening district. 
 By making the change I propose, you bring 
 them together. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. I move to amend section 
 twelve, by adding to the counties constituting 
 the second congressional district, the names 
 of Buchanan, Carlton and Mille Lac. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I move to amend the 
 amendment by adding thereto the words — 
 
 " And all counties not otherwise provided for." 
 
 The amendment to the amendment was 
 not agreed to. 
 
 The amendment was adopted. 
 
 On motion of Mr. PERKINS, the commit- 
 tee rose and reported to the Convention the 
 report and amendments, with a recommend- 
 ation that the amendments be conctured in. 
 
 The amendments of the committee of the 
 Whole were severally concurred in, without 
 debate, with the following exceptions : 
 
 The sixth amendment. — To strike out from the 
 seventh section the words, '.' until the Legislature 
 shall provide by law for filling such offices respec- 
 ively, in conformity with the provisions of this 
 Constitution," being under consideration. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS said : — It seems to me that 
 the committee of the whole Rusapprehended 
 the eflPect of striking out that part of the 
 
 section, and leaving only the first part, which 
 reads as follows : 
 
 " All county, precinct, township and municipal 
 officers shall continue to hold their respective 
 offices, unless removed by competent authority." 
 
 Now the idea we should convey is this: 
 That all oflScers in office at the time of oiu* 
 transition from a Territorial to a State Gov- 
 ernment shall hold their offices by competent 
 authority, or untiKothers are elected to fill 
 their places. 
 
 The amendment of the committee was not 
 conciured in. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I move to amend that 
 section by striking out the words, "shall 
 continue to hold their respective offices," and 
 insert — 
 
 " Holding their respective offices at the time of 
 the change from a Territorial to a State Grovemi 
 ment, shall continue to hold the same." 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Eleventh Amendment. — Amend the ninth section 
 by striking out the following words : "Whereupon 
 an election shall be held for Grovemor, Lieutenant 
 Governor, Treasurer, Attorney General, Auditor, 
 Superintendent of Public Instruction, Members of 
 the State Legislature, and Members of Congress, 
 and such other officers whose elections are herein 
 
 provided for, on the day of , and no 
 
 further notice of such election shall be required." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope that amendment 
 will not be concurred in. That is the only 
 section which makes any provision for the 
 election of State Officers. 
 
 Mr. BOBBINS. If that part of the sec- 
 tion is not stricken out, the election will take 
 place subsequent to the adoption of the Con- 
 stitution. It has been my desire that the 
 election for State Cfficers should be held at 
 the same time the people vote upon the adop- 
 tion or rejection of the Constitution. And 
 especially would I desire to have it so, if 
 there is but one Constitution submitted to the 
 people. 
 
 The amendment was not concurred in. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. KING, the 
 Convention took a recess until half past two 
 o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention re-assembled at half past 
 two o'clock. 
 
 SCHEDULE. 
 
 The Convention resumed the consideration 
 
682 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesd at, August 19. 
 
 of the amendments recommended by the com- 
 mittee of the Whole, to the report on the 
 Schedule. 
 
 The amendment to add to the eleventh 
 section the words — 
 
 "And the several persons so declared elected to 
 the said offices, shall, as soon as practicable there- 
 after, take and subscribe the requiste oath of 
 office, before any officer authorized to administer 
 oaths, which said oaths of office shall be filed in 
 the office of the Secretary of the State ; and the 
 said persons shall immediately thereafter enter 
 upon the duties of their office " 
 
 — Being the next in order for consideration — 
 Mr. COLBURN moved to amend the same 
 by striking out all after the words, "persons 
 shall," and insert — • 
 
 "Enter upon their duties immediately upon the 
 admission of Minnesota into the Union as a State." 
 
 Mr. C. said: If I understand the amend- 
 ment recommended by the committee of the 
 Whole, it is that when our State OflBcers are 
 elected under this Constitution, the State 
 Commissioner is to announce that fact, and 
 that as soon as practicable thereafter, they 
 are to take their oaths of oflBce and assume 
 the functions of officers of the State of Min- 
 nesota. Now I am opposed to such a pro- 
 vision. I am in favor of their assuming the 
 duties of their offices whenever Minnesota is 
 recognized as a State by Congress, and not 
 before. I do not agree with some gentlemen, 
 that we become a State in fact, the moment 
 our Constitution is adopted, whether we are 
 recognized by Congress or not. There is 
 something more to be done before we are 
 clothed with all the powers of a State Gov- 
 ernment. The Enabling Act provides for the 
 election of delegates to frame a Constitution 
 preparatory to our admission as a State. W e 
 are to be admitted as a State upon certain 
 conditions, and those conditions are that we 
 shall come in, in accordance with the Federal 
 Constitution. We assume that we have com- 
 plied with every condition of the Enabling 
 Act, but who is to decide that question ? 
 
 We are not the final arbiter. The Consti- 
 tution of the United States requires that we 
 shall come with a Republican form of govern- 
 ment. Congress may say that our form of 
 government is not Republican. I do not 
 presume that they will say that, but they may 
 do it. Or we might frame a government 
 which is not Republican, and if wo should, 
 
 clearly we should not be entitled to admission 
 under the Enabling Act. Is not Congress to 
 examine the Constitution, and decide that 
 question ? 
 
 We have provided that our State officers 
 shall not be elected at the time the people 
 vote upon the Constitution, but on a subse- 
 quent day. Suppose the Constitution is 
 adopted and we go on and elect our State 
 officers. Considerable time must intervene 
 between the adoption of the Constitution and 
 the election and qualification of State officers. 
 Now if gentlemen are correct in the position 
 they assume, we shall be a State in fact, gov- 
 erned by Territorial and United States officers. 
 Now I say if our State officers are to assume 
 their duties immediately upon the adoption of 
 this Constitution, I say let us go back, and 
 provide for their election at the time the Con- 
 stitution is adopted. But I prefer to leave 
 that provision as it is, and provide that the 
 officers shall assume their duties whenever 
 the State is recognized by Congress, and 
 when we are admitted into the Union as a 
 State, and not before. I hope the amendment 
 to the amendment will be adopted. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Mr. President: It seems 
 to me there is no difficulty in meeting the 
 objections to a sState government before ad- 
 mission. I am aware that there are difficult- 
 ies in the minds of some gentlemen upon the 
 question. Should we elect a Legislature, and 
 have them acting as a State Legislature whilst 
 we are making application for admission, — 
 would their laws, passed before or after ad- 
 mission, be Territorial or State laws ? What 
 should be our action? Here we have a State 
 Constitution — the Constitution we suppose to 
 have been acted upon by the people — adopted 
 as the Constitution of the State. Yet there 
 is another government — a Territorial govern- 
 ment existing, whilst this is in force— the 
 Territorial officers holding on, right over the 
 Constitution — two governments existing at 
 the same time. 
 
 Now, as to this, the language of the Ena- 
 bling Act is very pfain : It authorizes us to 
 form a Constitution and establish a State 
 government preparatory to our admission into 
 the Union. On the first page, it is enacted, 
 after the description of the boundaries, that 
 that the inhabitants of the Territory "be and 
 they are hereby authorized to form for them- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wedxesday, ArcrsT 19. 
 
 533 
 
 selves a Constitution" — that is one thing; 
 "and State government" — that is another 
 thing — "by the name of the State of Minne- 
 sota, and to come into the Union on an equal 
 footing with the original States, according to 
 the Federal Constitution." Now it seems to 
 me, from this language, that we should have 
 a Constitution and State government before 
 we can be in a condition to come into the 
 Union. But, if we come in, we come in on 
 a level with the original States. They came 
 into the Union having State governments, 
 therefore, when we come in, we should have 
 a State govemment. If we come in, then we 
 come in as a State govemment — not in a 
 chrysalis condition, passing from a Territorial 
 to a State form of existence. It seems to me, 
 that this act gives us complete authority to 
 become a State, in order to our application for 
 admission. 
 
 Then again, on the third page, it is said, if 
 they determine to have a State govemment 
 and come into the Union — "And be it further 
 "enacted, that in the event said Convention 
 " shall decide in favor of the immediate ad- 
 " mission of the. proposed State" — showing 
 that there might be a contingency in which 
 they would not do so. They had their State 
 Legislature, meeting and acting in the State 
 of Michigan, and they continued their State 
 government for some time before their ad- 
 mission into the Union, and I see no good 
 reason why it could not be so in our case — 
 especiall}^, since the Enabling Act is so clear 
 upon that point. 
 
 Several members calling for the reading of 
 the section, as proposed to be amended, it 
 was now again read through. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Mr. Pbesident : I hope 
 the amendment to the amendment will not be 
 adopted, although perhaps some Umitation 
 should be made. It is true, sir, that there 
 have been two minds among the members of 
 this Convention, in regard to the right and 
 the policy of organizing the State govemment 
 previous to the admission of the State into 
 the Union ; but I have not supposed that any 
 gentleman here advocated the idea, that, if 
 Congress, from any factious motive, should 
 refuse us admission into the Union, that then 
 we have done entirely, and our work shall 
 amount to nothing; and I hope such a senti- 
 ment will never prevail in this Convention. 
 
 If we comply with the terms of the Enabling 
 Act, and form a Constitution which the people 
 shall ratify, ai)d then make our application to 
 Congress for admission into the Union — if 
 our application should be refused, I for one 
 shall not be willing to quietly sit down under 
 a Territorial govemment, and have all that we 
 have done pass for nothing. And that would 
 be the effect of the amendment of the gentle- 
 man from Fillmore county — that the ofiBcers 
 to be elected to form the State government 
 shall not go into office until after the State has 
 been admitted into the Union. 
 
 "NVe have not yet fixed the time of holding 
 these elections. The time may, if necessary 
 be postponed till November or January, or 
 still later than January — until we may have 
 an opportunity to see what action Congress 
 will take. I wiU not object to such a post- 
 ponement; but I do object most strenuously 
 to inserting a provision which is going to make 
 the Constitution and State government void, 
 if Congress should refuse to admit us into 
 the Union. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. Mr. Pbesidest: I do not 
 know but the amendment might be made so 
 as to obviate some of the objections of the 
 gentleman. But I fail yet to be satisfied that 
 our govemment ought to assume all the pre- 
 rogatives of a State Govemment, before we 
 are admitted into the Union. TVe exist as a 
 Territorial govemment, unquestionably, until 
 we are recognized by Congress. 
 
 If two Constitutions are to be submitted, 
 (and we have no right now to assume that 
 there will not be,) it is quite probable that 
 each section of the Territory will claim to 
 have a ratified Constitution ; and these two 
 Constitutions will imdoubtedly go before Con- 
 gress, each section claiming to be admitted 
 with their particular Constitution. Under 
 this state of things, we shall be delayed in 
 our admission into the Union. Probably we 
 shall be delayed for a long time. We do not 
 know how long. "We may have to wait 
 months and even years. All speculation must 
 be at fault in regard to the time we may be 
 delayed. But, during this time, these Terri' 
 torial officers are not going to give up — they 
 are not going to cease exercising the functions 
 of their commissions under the Federal Gov- 
 emment. Suppose we go on and organize a 
 State Govemment, complete in all its parts, 
 
534 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 19. 
 
 what are we going to do ? Are we going to 
 come into collision with the general govern- 
 ment ? I apprehend that there would be but 
 one government, in reality, and that the Ter- 
 ritorial government would be that government, 
 whilst the other would be only a government 
 in form. And then suppose again, another 
 Constitution adopted, and another government 
 formed. Sir, we do not know how long the 
 conflict would be protracted, nor how far it 
 might extend. 
 
 I believe, sir, that a just regard for the in- 
 terests and well being of all concerned 
 would lead us, by all means, to avoid any ac- 
 tual collision with the authority of the gene- 
 ral government ; and in the event of a State 
 organization, unrecognized by Congress, it 
 seems to me that our judicial system at least, 
 must inevitably come into conflict with the 
 Territorial judiciary. 
 
 My friend from Rice county, (Mr. North,) 
 supported his view, by reference to the cir- 
 cumstances of the admission of the State of 
 Michigan. But the circumstances there were 
 . entirely diSerent from ours. There were no 
 two conflicting parties. There was at the 
 time perfect harmony between the Territorial 
 and State governments. Everything was 
 going on smoothly, with nothing of that ar- 
 dent and persistent struggling for power which 
 appears in the Territory of Minnesota ; and 
 it seems to me, if we go on, regardless of the 
 recognition of Congress, we shall fall into 
 trouble, not easily to be got rid ot. 
 
 Then in regard to the election of Represen- 
 tatives in the Legislature, Representatives in 
 Congress, and United States Senators. These 
 together with our State officers, should be 
 elected, that they may be able to assume the 
 duties of their offices the moment Congress 
 shall recognize us as a State. Our Federal 
 representatives might be elected, and in Wash- 
 ington, if you choose : There could no trou- 
 ble grow out of that. I do not, however, 
 deem it necessary that we should actually 
 elect United States Senators before we are 
 admitted, — not at all. For if that were abso- 
 lutely necessary, it would be necessary for us 
 to hold our State elections at the time of the 
 adoption ol" the Constitution ; otherwise our 
 Senators might not be ready to take their seats 
 at once. It requires time to organize a State 
 government; and as for the election of United 
 
 States Senators, that could be provided for, 
 even if the State were to be admitted imme- 
 diately upon presenting the Constitution. I 
 can see no difficulty arising from the course 
 proposed in ihe amendment, I have offered, 
 and I think I can see very serious difficulties 
 involved in the other course of procedure — a 
 difficulty similar to that which has taken 
 place in the Territory of Kansas. I think the 
 organization of a State government there, was 
 attempted at quite too early a day. It was 
 a serious mistake for them to come into con- 
 flict with the government recognized by Con- 
 gress. I trust that we shall profit by their 
 example, and avoid the difficulties in which 
 they have involved themselves. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. Mr. Pkesident: I hope 
 the Convention will be cautious enough, in 
 adopting this Constitution, not to come into 
 conflict with the general government ; and it 
 seems to me that such a case as this will bring 
 us into direct conflict with the authority of 
 Congress. It makes us liable to such a thing, 
 to say the least. Now, sir, we come before 
 Congress. We have adopted and ratified our 
 Constitution and sent it there, at the same 
 time giving out pretty sti'ong intimations that, 
 whether Congress admit 6s or not, we, are 
 determined to set up for ourselves. It seems 
 to me that' would not look very respectful, 
 nor would it be very apt to conciliate Con- 
 gress according to my view. I am not so 
 much of a " squatter sovereign," myself as to 
 think about getting up a State government in 
 opposition to the authority of Congress, and 
 set it revolving. I am not so much of a squat- 
 ter sovereign, as to believe it best imder the 
 pressure of present circumstances, to do any- 
 thing of the kind. 
 
 As I understand the case, action is to be 
 had on the part of Congress, recognizing us 
 as a State. We are authorized, it is true, to 
 form a State Constitution, and come into the 
 Union in accordance with the provisions of 
 the Federal Constitution; and one of those 
 provisions is, that Congress shall admit us as 
 a State. 
 
 It seems to me that Congress must deter- 
 mine first, whether we liave a Republican 
 Constitution, and have a right to come into 
 the Union. It does not seem to me that this 
 Convention or the people of MinnesoUi arc 
 tlie only party to decide this question — not at 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 19. 
 
 535 
 
 all. And, as it has been intimated, if we 
 should disregard the will of Congress, we 
 shall not only come into collision Avith the 
 general government, but have on our hands a 
 kind of triangular war ^\-ith our political ad- 
 versaries, and the Territorial authorities. I 
 think, now, it is veiy probable there will be 
 two Constitutions : and the two parties, dis- 
 tinctively claiming the State Government, if 
 neither should be admitted by Congress, 
 might both set up independent governments 
 and set them to revolving. There would be 
 two State Governments revolving at the 
 same time, at war with each other, and with 
 the general government. It seems to me 
 that would be a very disgraceful state of 
 affairs, and that it would be a very incautious 
 and unwise movement for us to take any 
 step that might ^ead us into such a difficulty. 
 If Congress does not see fit to admit us, 
 when we shall have complied with the terms 
 of the Enabling Act — accepted all its condi- 
 tions in a Republican Constitution and form 
 of government, all we have to do is to feel like 
 American citizens conscious of having done 
 our duty, and wait for Congress to correct 
 theu' own mistakes. 
 
 Mr. KING. Mr. Pbesidest: it is unfor- 
 tunate for us, that these gentlemen have not 
 been able to see these difficulties a little soon- 
 er. If they will turn back the pages of the 
 report, they will see that we have already de- 
 termined that the Legislature shall not meet 
 till the first Thursday in January, at twelve 
 o'clock noon, 1858 ; and this being the case, 
 I should think it would be about right, if 
 they would fix their amendments so as to al- 
 low every department of the government to 
 go into operation, and all the officers to be 
 qualified, at the same time. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. Mr. President: I under- 
 stand, by the language of the Enabling Act, 
 that the people of Minnesota are authorized 
 " to form for themselves a Constitution and 
 " State Government," and that they are also 
 authorized " to come into the Union." I un- 
 derstand, by this language, that Congress 
 thereby opens the door and authorizes us to 
 come in. We have come here to form a 
 Constitution in accordance with that act. 
 We propose to make for ourselves a State 
 government according to that act, and to do 
 everything required of us on our part toward 
 
 going into the Union according to that act ; 
 and I have been under the impression through- 
 out, that it was our wisdom to take care that 
 no act of ours should contradict the idea, 
 that we are to do here just precisely what 
 Congress has authorized, in order that we 
 may have a right to go into the Union ; and 
 if Congress, after all, should be disposed to 
 say to us, you must stay out, that would be 
 a matter for consideration aflerwards. I 
 cannot think we are going to have so much 
 trouble as gentlemen imagine, talking about 
 the conflict of three or four different kinds of 
 government. But, if such a thing should 
 happen, it will certainly make it, that our 
 State will be a great place to get office ; and 
 that might induce a larger immigration and 
 increase of population, which would be at 
 least one great advantage. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS made an ineffectual de- 
 mand for the yeas and nays. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. Mr. Pbesidest : I would 
 like to have the question divided, and taken 
 first on striking out. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. According to our 
 Rules, a motion to strike out and insert is 
 indivisible. 
 
 The amendment to the amendment was 
 adopted ; 
 
 And then, the amendment as amended was 
 rejected. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN moved to amend section 
 thirteen by inserting the county of Crow 
 Wing, in the second judicial circuit, that 
 county having been overlooked. 
 
 The amendment was agi-eed to. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM moved to amend the sixth 
 section, by adding the letter " s " to the word 
 " Commissioner," in the fourth line, and by 
 striking out all between the word " House," 
 in the fifth line, and the word "the," in the 
 eighth line, and inserting the following : 
 
 " The first named of the said Election Commis- 
 sioners, or his successor, as hereafter provided, 
 after reading a list of the Senators elected to the 
 members assembled in the Council Chamber of 
 the Capitol, at the time above specified, shall call 
 them to order, and act as presiding officer, until a 
 temporary organization shall be effected ; and the 
 second named of the said State Election Commis- 
 sioners, or his successor, after reading a hst of the 
 Representatives elected to the House of Represen- 
 tatives, shall call them to order and act as a presi- 
 ding officer, until a temporary organization shall 
 be effected by said House." 
 
63S 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 19. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN moved to amend section 
 ten, by inserting the county of Crow Wing 
 in the seventeenth district. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. KING moved to amend section five by 
 striking out the words, " now " and " their," 
 in the first line. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to, 
 
 Mr. GERRISH moved to amend section 
 ten, page eight, fines fourteen and fifteen, by 
 inserting after the word " representatives " 
 where it first occurs the words, " and two 
 " Senators," and by striking out all after the 
 last " and," and inserting, " one Senator," so 
 that the clause shall read — 
 
 " la the fifth district, the county of Winona shall 
 elect four Representatives and two Senators, and 
 the county of Wabashaw two Representatives and 
 one Senator." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. NORTH moved to amend section twelve 
 by taking the county of Rice from the sec- 
 ond congressional district and placing it in the 
 first. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move to amend that 
 part of section ten which refers to the second 
 district, by striking out the word "four" and 
 inserting " six," so that it shall read — 
 
 " In the second district, the county of Fillmore 
 shall elect six representatives and two Senators." 
 
 We clam a population for Fillmore County 
 of fifteen thousand, while at the same time 
 we are allowed only the same number of rep- 
 resentatives as Winona, which only claims 
 ten thousand five hundred. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR moved to amend that part 
 of section ten which relates to the seventh 
 district, so as to give the counties of Dodge 
 and Steele two representatives each, and to- 
 gether, one senator. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. KING moved to amend by giving the 
 county of Olmsted, which constitutes the 
 sixth district, two senators, instead of one. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move to amend section 
 thirteen by striking out the county of Sibley 
 from the third judicial circuit, and adding it 
 to the fourth. As the section now stands 
 there are eight counties in the third judicial 
 
 circuit, each of which are well settled, and in 
 each of which terms of court are now held 
 and have been. There are three circuits 
 which contain a less number of counties than 
 this. One contains three, one four, and one 
 six counties. I am satisfied that there are 
 four circuits which will have a less amount of 
 business than the third. If the change I 
 propose is made, the third and fourth judicial 
 circuit will each contain seven counties. 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 Mr. MURPHY. I move to amend that 
 part of section ten which refers to the six- 
 teenth and seventeenth districts by placing 
 Todd County in the place of Sherburne, and 
 Sherburne in the place of Todd County. 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 Mr. NORTH proposed, after the word 
 " Constituuion," in the fourthjine of the sixth 
 section, to add : " when the Register of Deeds 
 " in their respective counties shall neglect or 
 " refuse to act." 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 Mr. MILLS. I move now to recommit this 
 report to the select committee which report- 
 ed it. 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 Mr. MORGAN. There are a number of 
 blanks yet to be filled, and I move that this 
 report be laid on the table until to-morrow. 
 The motion was lost. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope this report will 
 not be disposed of now. We have made no 
 arrangement for ordering the election of of- 
 ficers at any time, nor have we taken any 
 steps towards organizing a a State govern- 
 ment. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I understand that these 
 blanks can be filled up at the third reading 
 of the report; It is in a bad shape now, and 
 in fact we hardly know in what shape it is, so 
 many amendments have been made. I am 
 decidedly in favor of having it printed, and 
 then we can perfect it. 
 
 The report was then perfected by filling 
 various blanks with names, and the report, as 
 amended was ordered to be engrossed for a 
 third reading. 
 
 EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENT, 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move that report num- 
 ber two, upon the Executive Department, be 
 now read a tliird time and put upon its pas- 
 sage. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thtbsdat, Arorsr 20. 
 
 537 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The report was accordingly read a third 
 time. 
 
 By unanimous consent, section nine of the 
 report which related to the veto power of the 
 Governor, was stricken out, the same ground 
 being covered by a section in the report upon 
 the Legislative Department 
 
 The report, as thus amended was then 
 passed. 
 
 On motion of Mr. KING (at a quarter be- 
 fore five o'clock) the Convention adjourned. 
 
 THIRTY-FOURTH DAY. 
 
 Thcbsday, August 20th, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. m. 
 The joiuTial of yesterday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 RESOLCTIOX. 
 
 Mr. MILLS offered the following resolution : 
 " Eegolved, That upon the day that this Consti- 
 tution is submitted to the people of this Territory 
 for its adoption or rejection, the electors of the 
 Territory shall, at each of the usual places of hold- 
 ing elections, open a ballot box and appoint judges 
 and vote for the permanent location of the Capital 
 of the State of Minnesota; and the city, town or 
 village having the largest number of votes shall 
 be the permanent Capital of said State. 
 
 " And le it further JSeiolced, That the aforesaid 
 election shall be held and governed according to 
 the provisions of the Constitution." 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I hope we shall not pass 
 any such resolution. I am decidedly opposed 
 to imdertaking to establish a permanent loca- 
 tion of the Capital, by this Convention. 
 
 The resolution was laid over one day, un- 
 der the rule. 
 
 THTBD BEADIKG OP KEPOBTS, 
 
 On motion of Mr. MANTOR, report num- 
 ber twenty, on the " Militia," was taken up, 
 read a third time and passed. 
 
 On motion of Mr. BUTLER, report num- 
 ber twelve, on "State Officers other than Ex- 
 ecutive" was taken up, read a third time and 
 passed. 
 
 STATE SEAL, &C. 
 
 On motion of Mr. HAYDEN, the Conven- 
 tion resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole (Mr. Thompson in the Chair) upon re- 
 port number seventeen, " on Seal and Coat of 
 Arms." 
 68 
 
 The substitute reported by the committee 
 in place of the original report, was read. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS moved to amend by strik- 
 ing out the words " steamboat ascending," 
 and inserting " canoe descending." 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. If the gentlemen d^ 
 sire to retain the steamboat, I have no ob- 
 jection, but I really desire to have a cano» 
 also. I therefore move to insert '' and canoe" 
 after the word '' steamboat." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 On motion of Mr. NORTH, the committee 
 then rose and reported back the report to the 
 Convention, together with the amendment, 
 with a recommendation that the amendment 
 be concurred in. 
 
 The recommendation of the committee was 
 concurred in, and the substitute, as amended, 
 was ordered to be engrossed for a third read- 
 ing. 
 
 Mr. Galbbaith was excused from further 
 service as Chairman of the committee upon 
 Miscellaneous Provisions, and Mr. Cleghobh 
 was appointed in his stead. 
 
 PBIXTISG THE CONSTITCnOS. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM offered the foUowing reso- 
 lution, which, giving rise to debate, was laid 
 over under the rule, viz : 
 
 " Resohid, That twenty thousand copies of the 
 Constitution that may be adopted by this Conven- 
 tion, be printed in pamphlet form for general dis- 
 tribution." 
 
 SCHEDtTiE. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR, from the committee on ea- 
 grossment, reported back as correctly en- 
 grossed, report mmiber twenty-foiu-, on the 
 Schedule. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. HAYDEN 
 (at ten o'clock and thirty minutes,) the Con- 
 ventioa took a recess imtil half-past two. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 The Convention re-assembled at half past 
 two o'clock. 
 
 THIED BEAOIXG OF REPOBTS. 
 
 On motion of Mr. BILLINGS, report num- 
 ber twenty-three, on Public Property, was 
 taken up, read a third time and passed. 
 
 On motion of Mr. HAYDEN, report num- 
 ber sixteen, on Official Salaries, was taken up 
 read a third time and passed. 
 
 SaSCELLAXEOCS PBOVISIOKS. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN, from the committee on 
 
538 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, August 21. 
 
 Miscellaneous Provisions, made the following 
 
 report, which was read a first and second 
 
 time, and laid upon the table to be printed, 
 
 viz: 
 
 "Sec. 1. The political jear for the State of 
 
 innesota shall commence on the first Monday of 
 
 anuary of each year. 
 
 "Sec. 2. All persons residing upon Indian 
 Lands within any county in this State or persons 
 residing in any unorganized county, and qualified 
 to exercise the right of suffrage under this Con- 
 stitution shall be entitled to vote at the polls which 
 may be nearest their residence, for United States, 
 State, or County oflScerg ; Provided, that no per- 
 son shall vote for county officers out of the county 
 in which he resides. 
 
 " Sec. 3. The Legislature may declare the cases 
 in which any ofiBce shall be deemed vacant, and 
 also the manner of filling the vacancy where no 
 provision is made for that purpose in this Consti- 
 tution. 
 
 " Sec. 4. No person convicted of any infamous 
 crime in any court, within the United States, and 
 no person being a defaulter to the United States or 
 to this State or to any county or town therein, or 
 to any State or Territory within the United States, 
 shall be eligible to any oflSce of trust, profit or 
 honor in this State. 
 
 Sec. 5. Members of the Legislature, and all 
 ofBcers, executive and judicial, shall, before they 
 enter upon the duties of their respective offices 
 take and subscribe the following oath or affirma- 
 tion : " I do solemnly swear, (or afiirm,) that I 
 will support the Constitution of the United States, 
 and the Constitution of the State of Minnesota, 
 and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of the 
 office of according to the best of my ability.'' 
 
 And no other declaration or test shall be required 
 as a qualification for any office or public trust. 
 
 "Sec. 6. No contract of marriage, if other- 
 wise duly made, shall be invalidated for want of 
 conformity to requirements of any religious sect. 
 
 ".Sec. 7. No perpetuities shall be allowed ex- 
 cept for eleemosynary purposes. 
 
 " Sec. 8. Every person shall be disqualified 
 from holding any office of profit in thig State who 
 shall have been convicted of having given or 
 offered a bribe to procure his election or appoint- 
 ment. 
 
 " Sec. 9. The Seal of the State shall be kept 
 by the Governor or person administering the gov- 
 ernment, and used by him officially, and shall be 
 called the Great Seal of the State of Minnesota. 
 
 " Sec. 10. An accurate and detailed statement of 
 the receipts and expenditures of the public money, 
 the several amounts paid, to whom, and on what 
 account, shall from time to time be published aa 
 shall be prescribed by law. 
 
 "Sec. 11. There may bo established in the 
 Secretary of State's office, a bureau of statistics. 
 
 under such regulations as may be prescribed by 
 law. 
 
 " Sec. 12. If this Constitution shall be ratified 
 by the people, the State Election Commissioners 
 shall forthwith, after having ascertained the fact, 
 issue writs of election to the several County Elec- 
 tion Commissioners of the several counties of this 
 State for the election of all the officers, the time of 
 whose election is fixed by this Constitution, and it 
 shall be the duty of said County Election Commis- 
 sioners to give at least twenty days notice of the 
 time and place of said election, in the manner now 
 prescribed by law. 
 
 "Sec. 13. No navigable stream in this State 
 shall be either bridged or dammed without au- 
 thority from the Board of Supervisors of the 
 proper county under the provisions of law. No 
 such law shall prejudice the right of individuals 
 to the free navigation of such streams or preclude 
 the State from the further improvement of the 
 navigation of such stream. 
 
 "Sec. 14. Whenever the office of United States 
 Senator shall become vacant from any cause, either 
 by expiration of term, death, resignation or other- 
 wise, it shall be the duty of Governor, or person 
 administering the government, to notify the Le- 
 gislature at their first session thereafter, and on 
 the first day thereof And on the third day there- 
 after the members of the Senate shall assemble in 
 the Hall of Representatives in joint convention, 
 the President of the Senate acting as presiding of- 
 ficer thereof, and they shall proceed to fill said va- 
 cancy or vacancies, and the person having a ma- 
 jority of all the ballots cast at said election shall 
 be declared duly elected. 
 
 " Sec. 15. There shall be elected in each judi- 
 cial circuit at the time of the election of the Judge 
 of said circuit two Regents of the University, 
 whose term of office shall be the same as that of 
 such Judge. The Regents thus elected shall con- 
 stitute the Board of Regents of the University of 
 Minnesota. The Regents of the University, and 
 their successors in office, shall continue to consti- 
 tute the body corporate, known by the name and 
 title of ' The Regents of the University of Min- 
 nesota.' " 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. ROBBJNS, 
 the Convention adjourned. 
 
 THIRTY-FIFTH DAY. 
 
 Friday, August 21st, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. m. 
 The Journal of yesterday was read and 
 approved. 
 
 LOCATION OF STATE CAPITAL. 
 
 Mr. MILLS' resolution, offered yesterday, 
 with reference to submitting to the people the 
 question of the permanent location of the 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, August 21. 
 
 539 
 
 seat of government, coming up in order, for 
 consideration. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM submitted the following sub- 
 stitute : 
 
 " Resolved, That the first Legislature of this 
 State shall make provision by law for the election 
 of five State Capital Commissioners, whose duty 
 it shall be to procure the title to six hundred and 
 forty acres of land, as near the geographical cen- 
 ter of the State as can be procured, suitable for 
 the erection of the Capitol buildings and other 
 buildings which may be deemed necessary for the 
 future use of the State ; on which land, when lo- 
 cated, shall be and forever remain the permanent 
 Capitol of the State of Minnesota." 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I hope the substitute 
 will prevail. As it is fashionable to make 
 capital for number one, I do not see why the 
 State should not make Capitol also. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN moved that the resolu- 
 tion and substitute be laid upon the table. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 EXTRA COPIES OF THE CONSTITUTION. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM'S resolution submitted 
 yesterday, for printing twenty thousand co- 
 pies of the Constitution, for distribution among 
 the people, coming up in order. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS said: I would amend 
 that resolution, by adding that five thousand 
 should be printed in the Norwegian, five 
 thousand in the Sweedish, and five thousand 
 in the German language. If we are to pub- 
 lish our Constitution at all, I hope it will be 
 published more particularly for the use of 
 foreigners, rather than for the use of those 
 who have the means and facilities of obtaining 
 it in the newspapers, and learning its provis- 
 ions by conversation with others. Foreigners 
 generally can obtain that information only by 
 having it published in their own language. 
 The copies in Sweedish can be published at 
 Red Wing ; those in Norwegian, at Madison, 
 Wisconsin ; and those in German, in this city. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM accepted the amendment. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I would suggest that the 
 difference between the Sweedish and Norwe- 
 gian is so shght, that a publication in the 
 Sweedish language would be sufficient. 
 
 Mr. CEDERSTAM. The difference be- 
 tween the t\vo languages is not very great, 
 yet the difference is so considerable that the 
 common people have difficulty in reading 
 both. I think, therefore,][it would be best to 
 publish it in both languages. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I move to amend by in- 
 serting, " and five thousand in French." 
 
 The amendment was accepted by the 
 mover, and the resolution as amended was 
 adopted. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I move that the commit- 
 tee on Printing he instructed to procure from 
 the hands of the printers, all the engrossed 
 reports, unpublished, in their hands, and re- 
 turn the same to the Convention. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. KING moved a call of the Convention, 
 which was refused. 
 
 Mr. KING moved that the Convention ad- 
 journ, which was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. THOMPSON. I renew the motion 
 for a call of the Convention. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the roll be- 
 ing called the following m'embers feiled to 
 answer to their names : 
 
 Messrs. Aldrich, Ayer, Baldwin, Bates, 
 CoGGSWELL, Coombs, Dickerson, Foster, Fol- 
 sost, Galbraith, Hall, Hudson, Lowe, Man- 
 tor, McCann, McKune, McClure, Messer, 
 Murphy, Putnam, Stannard, Secombe, Smith, 
 Walker, Winell, and Wilson. 
 
 On motion of Mr. WATSON, all further 
 proceedings under the call were dispensed 
 with. 
 
 third reading of reports. 
 
 Mr. KING. I move that the Convention 
 take up report number eighteen, on the Judi- 
 ciary, and put it upon its third reading. 
 
 The motion was agreed to,^and the report 
 was taken up and read a third time accor- 
 dingly. 
 
 On motion of Mr. COLBURN, by unani- 
 mous consent, the last clause of section 
 eight, as follows, was stricken out, viz . " All 
 "judicial decisions shair be free for pubUca- 
 "tion by any person." 
 
 The report, as thus amended, was passed. 
 
 On motion of Mr. COLBURN, report num- 
 ber twenty-one, on Taxation, Finance and 
 Public Debt was taken up, read a third time 
 and passed. 
 
 On motion of Mr. BILLINGS, report num- 
 ber fifteen, on " Amendments and Revision of 
 " the Constitution," was taken up and read 
 a third time. 
 
 By unanimous consent, the words, " ratify 
 such," was inserted in line sixteen, between 
 the words, "and" and " amendment ;" also 
 
540 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fkidat, August 21. 
 
 the word " such," in the eighteenth line, be- 
 fore the word " amendment." 
 
 The report, as thus amended, was then 
 passed. 
 
 Mr. BUTLER. I move that report num- 
 ber fourteen, on the Elective Franchise, be 
 taken up, read a third time and put upon its 
 passage. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The report was accordingly taken up and 
 read a third time. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I move that the Conven- 
 tion resolve itself into a committee of the 
 Whole, to consider this report. 
 vThe motion was not seconded. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I do not feel disposed to 
 urge anything un tasteful upon the Conven- 
 tion. I wish to vote for this report, with the 
 exception of the first section ; and if the Con- 
 vention compells me to vote upon the report 
 as a whole, I shall have to vote against it. I 
 cannot vote for the first provision of the bill. 
 If the question is pressed to its final passage 
 now, I shall be compelled to call for the yeas 
 and nays. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. Before the report is 
 passed, I would ask the Convention to change 
 one word in the third section. As it now 
 stands, it provides for punishing a person for 
 procuring or inducing another to vote ille- 
 gally, while he may himself vote illegally, and 
 escape the disability imposed by that section. 
 I propose to amend that part of the section 
 so that it shall read, " or of voting, or indu- 
 " cing any person to vote illegally, &c." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I think we are going too 
 far in this section, either way. It provides 
 that every person who procures another per- 
 son to vote illegally shall be disfranchised. I 
 have no doubt that at every election that 
 thing is done, and innocently done. This is 
 rather a sweeping piece of legislation. If it 
 is in order, I would move to strike out the 
 whole section. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. When this report was 
 under consideration in committee of the 
 Whole, the attention of the committee was 
 almost wholly directed to another clause of 
 the report, and this was passed over without 
 much consideration. For the purpose of hav- 
 ing an opportunity to re-arrange this section, I 
 would move that the Convention resolve itself 
 into a committee of the Whole to take into 
 
 consideration this section of the report. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. I hope the motion will in- 
 clude the entire report. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I limited the extent of 
 my motion from the fact that that part of the 
 report which the gentleman from Rice desires 
 to re-consider, has been thoroughly consid- 
 ered and discussed, and I am satisfied that 
 there is no general desire to interfere with the 
 disposition which has been made of that sec- 
 tion. It is well known that my views corres- 
 pond with those of the gentleman from Rice 
 county, but I am not disposed to re-open that 
 question now. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The Convention accordingly resolved itself 
 into a committee of the Whole, (Mr. Bar- 
 tholomew in the Chair,) and took up for con- 
 sideration the third section of the report, on 
 the Elective Franchise. 
 
 The section was read as follows : 
 
 '.' Sec. 3. No person shall be qualified to vote 
 at any election who shall be convicted of treason 
 — or any felony — or of voting, or attempting to 
 vote, more than once at any election — or of pro- 
 curing or inducing any person to vote illegally at 
 any election ; Provided, That the Governor or the 
 Legislature may restore any such person to civil 
 rights." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to strike out the 
 whole section. I believe it is unusual, in this 
 connection, to introduce such a section as 
 this. I have never seen it in any other Con- 
 stitution, and it certainly is a very sweeping 
 piece of legislation, and a matter wholly 
 within the province of the Legislature. This 
 provision is certainly a very stringent one, 
 and difficult of application, and in many cases 
 would work great hardship. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BUTLER. I move to amend by stri- 
 king out the word " procuring," and inserting 
 " voting." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I move to strike out 
 all after the word " felony." 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I object to that, for the 
 reason that it would cut off the power of the 
 Legislature to restore civil rights to any per- 
 son who may be convicted of violating the 
 provisions of this section. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. A pardon always restores 
 a person to his legal civil rights. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. That is usuaUy the cas* 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, Augcst 21. 
 
 541 
 
 under the laws of the various States ; but 
 where there is a Constitutional provision, that 
 no person shall vote at any election who 
 shall have been convicted of a particular of- 
 fence, it is not in the power of the Legisla- 
 ture or Governor to restore him. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. The object of the gentle- 
 man from Fillmore can be attained by moving 
 to strike out all after " felony," and before 
 " provided." 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I move to amend the 
 amendment, by striking out the word " any," 
 in the second line, and all after the word 
 " felony," down to the word " provided." 
 
 The amendment to the amendment was 
 agreed to, and then the amendment as amend- 
 ed was adopted. 
 
 On motion of Mr. HARDING, the commit- 
 tee rose and reported to the Convention the 
 report and amendments, with a recommenda- 
 tion that the amendments be concurred in. 
 
 The amendments reported by the commit- 
 tee were severally concurred in. 
 
 The question then recurred upon the pas- 
 sage of the report. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. Mr. President : I do 
 not rise to offer any apology for the vote I 
 shall give upon the final passage of this re- 
 port. The amendment offered in committee 
 of the Whole, by the gentleman from Rice 
 county, (Mr. North,) which proposed to 
 strike out the word " white," in section one, 
 met my cordial approval, and would have re- 
 ceived my support at that time, had I not 
 been confined to my room by severe indispo- 
 sition. A large majority of this Convention, 
 however, refused to concur in the amend- 
 ment, consequently the original report of the 
 committee has come down to us unamended, 
 and we are now asked to give it a finishing 
 stroke, and adopt it as a part of our Constitu- 
 tion — the supreme law of the land. I have 
 hitherto had the pleasure of acting with the 
 majority of this body upon most questions of 
 importance, which have come before us ; and 
 in doing so, I am happy to say my pleasure 
 and my duty, have been united. 
 
 I am not, I trust, so self-confident or so 
 egotistical, as to reject without due and careful 
 consideration the arguments of honorable gen- 
 tlemen who favor the passage of this report. 
 Yet while I admire their eloquence, and 
 cheerfully accord to them that superiority of 
 
 intellect eminently their due, I must, with 
 becoming deference, say, that in my judg- 
 ment the article as it now stands with the 
 word " white " retained, is anti- American, 
 anti-Republican, and unfit to be placed in the 
 Constitution of a people who are or deserve 
 to be free. 
 
 I know not what may be the final action of 
 this Convention, but judging from the past, I 
 fear that a large majority of this body are in 
 favor of the report, but I will not believe it until 
 the last vote is taken. I am not prepared to 
 believe that of the fifty -nine gentlemen pres- 
 ent — Minnesotians by adoption and by pro- 
 fession. Republicans, also, of 1857, who 
 have before this altar called upon Heaven to 
 witness the sincerity of their intentions, and 
 have sworn faithfully to discharge the duties 
 upon which they have entered — a respectable 
 number will be found finally, who are \\-illing 
 to crush out the only feature in our Constitu- 
 tion that marks the age in which we live, and 
 with it destroy the hopes of Freedom in our 
 beloved Territory ; who are willing to disre- 
 gard the claims of humanity and justice ; 
 who are willing to help blast the hopes of our 
 colored population, whose hands are upraised 
 to them for protection. I say, Mr. Presi- 
 dent, that I cannot believe a respectable 
 number will finally be found ready and M-illing 
 to enter upon such unholy work without 
 reasonable precedent or apology. I blush 
 for men when I confess that the history of 
 the past proves that Freedom receives, and 
 has received, the cruellest stabs in the house 
 of her pretended fi-iends. 
 
 It is said " Negro Suffrage " is not a plank 
 in the National Republican Platform. Admit 
 it. But does it follow that what would be 
 an impracticable plank in a national plat- 
 forn of party principles, is an impracticable 
 plank in a State platform of a party. By no 
 means. When the Republican party in our 
 our sister State (Wisconsin) inserted as a 
 plank in its platform, " that the Fugitive 
 Slave Law shall not be enforced in Wiscon- 
 sin," did it inquire, or was it its business to 
 inquire, whether this had been incorporated 
 in the national platform of the party? Of 
 course not. Refusing to catch fugitive slaves 
 might not be considered orthodox Republi- 
 canism by a majority of the delegates to a 
 National Convention, but it was and is » 
 
542 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Feid ay, August 21. 
 
 proper subject to be considered upon, either 
 for or against, by any State Convention, and 
 the action of such Convention would be 
 orthodox Republicanism in and for said State. 
 Precisely so is it with this universal suffrage 
 question. It is no argument against it, that 
 party platforms have hitherto been lacking in 
 such a plank. Properly the question should 
 be met here and now. We are organizing a 
 State, the first one organized since the forma- 
 tion of the Republican Part3^ It is under- 
 itood that our party in this Convention is in 
 the ascendant. Our preaching has been here- 
 tofore, " Let us carry out the doctrines of 
 " the Fathers of the Republic as they are 
 " promulgated in the Declaration of Rights," 
 and now when the opportunity comes to us 
 shall not our preaching and our practice cor- 
 respond ? Policy or expediency has nothing 
 to do with the question. It is simply this : 
 Shall we play " artful dodges," or act like 
 men. The first course may perchance win 
 us a doubtful victory, the last will preserve 
 for us at least, what is better, our own self- 
 respect. Disguise it as you may, under the 
 sham garb of party policy, the fact is never- 
 theless significant and plain, that by this 
 word " white " inserted where it is by a Re- 
 publican Convention, it is admitted by them 
 that the Bill of Rights, which precedes it, is 
 simply " losh" hifaluten, put there as a pre- 
 face to our Constitution, to show posterity 
 that we, like others, have learned to be Janus- 
 faced — to pretend to a goodness we have not, 
 and whose chiefest motive of action is not 
 principle, but — spoils. I am opposed to the 
 whole thing. Let us, as a party, free our- 
 selves from such just and merited imputations, 
 by making a Constitution, in this respect at 
 least, in accordance with the genius of Chris- 
 tianity and humanity. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I move that there be a call 
 of the Convention, before the vote is taken. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 The question was then taken and resulted, 
 yeas twenty-.six, nays .seven, as follows : 
 
 Yeas — Messrs. Anderson, Bartholomew, Col- 
 burn, Coe, Cederstam, Duley, Eschlie, Gerrish, 
 Hall, Harding, Hanson, King, Kemp, Lyle, Mor- 
 gan, Mills, North, Phelps, Perkins, Peckhara, Rob- 
 bins, Sheldon, Thompson, Vaughn, Watson and 
 Mr. President.— 26, 
 
 ^ay»— Messrs. Billings, BoUes, Butler, Clog- 
 horn, Uayden, Holley and Metser.— 7. 
 
 So the report was passed. 
 
 Pending the call — 
 
 Mr. BOLLES said : — Before I cast my vote 
 I desire to make a simple explanation. Con- 
 sulting my own sense of justice and right in 
 this matter, I shall have to vote in the nega- 
 tive on the final passage of this report. It 
 will be remembered that upon the final vote 
 uporl the action of the committee of the 
 whole on this subject, I was unavoidably 
 absent on account of sickness, and therefore 
 had not an opportunity to express my senti- 
 ments upon the subject ; — sentiments which 
 are entertained in common by my constitu- 
 ents and myself. My convictions are, that 
 we, as a Convention, have made a sad mis- 
 take in incorporating the word "white" into 
 this first article, and acting under that con- 
 viction, I consider it my duty to myself and 
 my constituents to record my vote in the 
 negative upon this final vote, and I accord- 
 ingly vote "No!" 
 
 Mr. BOBBINS said:— I voted "aye" with 
 the understanding that I have the pledge of 
 the Convention that the final decision upon 
 the word " white " shall be left to the peo- 
 ple. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I voted with the same un- 
 derstanding that the gentleman from Olmsted 
 (Mr. RoBBiNs) did, upon this subject, and I 
 suppose it is taken for granted that the con- 
 sent of this Convention is unanimous in sub- 
 mitting the question of retaining the word 
 " white" to the people. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I would state that I 
 vote in the aflBrmative for the reason that the 
 question of striking out the word "white" 
 has once been fully discussed and decided by 
 the Convention ; and for the further reason 
 that it is to be submitted to the people as a 
 separate proposition. My views upon the 
 matter have been given before, and I do not 
 desire to make any factious opposition to a 
 thing of this kind, after it has once been dis- 
 po.sed of 
 
 On motion of Mr. BUTLER, Report num- 
 ber thirteen, on Impeachment and Removal 
 from Office was taken up, read"a third time 
 and passed. 
 
 And then on motion of Mr. ^MORGAN, 
 tho Convention took a recess until half-past 
 two o'clock, 
 
MINNESOTA CONYExSTION DEBATES— Satcbdat, Augcst 22. 
 
 54? 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention re-assembled at half-past 
 two o'clock. 
 
 The roll being called, no quorum answered 
 to their names. Other members subsequently 
 coming in, 
 
 The PRESIDENT announced that there 
 was a quorum present. 
 
 On motion of Mr. COLBURN, the Conven- 
 tion resolved itself into a committee of the 
 Whole (Mr. "Watsox in the Chair) to take 
 into consideration report number twenty-foiur 
 on the Schedule, and after some time spent 
 therein, the committee rose and reported the 
 same back to the Convention with a recom- 
 mendation that the same be concurred in. 
 
 Mr. KING moved that the rules be so far 
 suspended as to allow the report to be read a 
 third time and put upon its passage. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The question being on the final passage of 
 the report — 
 
 Mr. HARDING mov^ed that the same be 
 laid upon the table. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. HARDING, 
 the Convention adjourned. 
 
 THIRTY-SIXTH DAY. 
 
 Satubdat, August 22d, 1857. 
 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. jt. 
 
 The Journal of yesterday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 On motion of Mr. KING, the Convention 
 resolved itself into a committee of the "Whole, 
 (Mr. KiN'G in the Chair), to take into consid- 
 eration Report No. 25, "on Miscellaneous 
 Provisions." 
 
 (For Report, see proceedings of August 
 20th.) 
 
 The Report was read by Sections for 
 amendment and consideration. 
 
 "Skc. 2. All persons residing upon Indian lands 
 within any county in this State, or persons resid- 
 ing in any unorganized county, and qualified to 
 exercise the right of suffrage under this Constitu- 
 tion, shall be entitled to vote at the polls which 
 may be nearest their residence, for United States, 
 State, or County OfiBcers ; ProvicUd, That no per- 
 son shall vote for county officers out of the county 
 in which he resides." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN moved to strike out section 
 two. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I hope it will not be 
 stricken out. There are a great many persons 
 living in our Territory for whom no other pro- 
 vision is made for voting. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. TTe have provided in the 
 article upon the Right of Suffrage that per- 
 sons must reside ten days within their res- 
 pective precincts before they shall be entitled 
 to vote. This provision that persons living 
 in unorganized counties may vote in organized 
 counties, is exceedingly loose. The number 
 of persons this provision would cover is ex- 
 ceedingly small. Every organized county 
 will have voting precincts all over them, so 
 that no person will be deprived of voting in 
 such counties, while in unorganized counties, 
 precincts may be found. 
 
 Another thing; the section provides that 
 such persons shall not vote for county oflBcers 
 out of the county in which they reside, while 
 it does not prohibit them from voting for 
 members of the Legislature out of the legisla- 
 tive district in which they reside. There is 
 as much necessity for prohibition in the one 
 case as in the other. 
 
 The motion to strike out was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES moved to amend by adding 
 after the word "provided" the words "that 
 " this shall not interfere with any other provis- 
 "ions of this Constitution." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. That would be a singtilar 
 provision, and would seem to indicate that we 
 did not know what we had provided for in 
 the Constitution. 
 
 Mr. BOLLES. It is true that I do not 
 know fully what provisions are in the article 
 refen-ed to a short time since, by the gentle- 
 man from Hennepin, (Mr. Mobga>-), from the 
 fact that I have not been able to get hold of 
 a copy of that report. But I withdraw my 
 amendment for the present. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to amend by ad- 
 ding to the section the words " or for mem- 
 "bers of the Legislature out of the legislative 
 "district in -which he resides." 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move to amend the 
 amendment, by adding thereto, "Nor for 
 "Judges of the Supreme or Circuit Court out 
 "of the district or circuit in which he may re- 
 " side." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN accepted the amendment, 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I do not see the necess- 
 ity for the amendments, nor do I see the ne- 
 
au 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satukdat, August 22. 
 
 cessity for inserting a section of this charac- 
 ter in the Constitution at all. All the terri- 
 tory within the proposed limits of the State 
 is included within some county, and there 
 will be precincts organized in those counties, 
 and voters will have the privilege of voting 
 for State oiBcers anywhere within the limits 
 of the proposed State, and for Representatives 
 and Senators anywhere within the represen- 
 tative and senatorial districts in which that 
 portion of the Territory in which they reside is 
 included, without any provision of this char- 
 acter, and whether he happen to reside on an 
 Indian reservation or not. 
 
 Mr. DULEY. I am decidedly in favor of 
 striking out the section, and I move to recon- 
 sider the vote by which the Convention refus- 
 ed to strike it out. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The motion is out of 
 order, as there is already a motion before the 
 Committee. 
 
 The amendment to the amendment was not 
 agreed to, and the amendment was disagreed 
 to. 
 
 * ' Sec. 3. The Legislature may declare the cases 
 in which any office shall be deemed vacant, and 
 also the manner of filling the vacancy where no 
 provision is made for that purpose in this Consti- 
 tution." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to strike out that 
 section. 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. 4. No person convicted of any infamous 
 crime, in any court, within the United States, and 
 no person being a defaulter to the United States 
 or to this State, or to any county or town therein, 
 or to any state or territory within the United 
 States, shall be eligible to any office of trust, profit 
 or honor in this State." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to strike out that 
 section. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I hope not, for I think 
 it is of great importance that we should have 
 honest men in office in this Territory. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. Persons have sometimes 
 been convicted of infamous crimes when they 
 have been wholly innocent, and the communi- 
 ty have become satisfied that they were inno- 
 cent. Now under this provision such persons 
 could not hold office in our State. 
 
 As regards defaulters, the question of being 
 such or not, is generally a mooted question. 
 Persons are sometimes charged with being de- 
 faulters where it is only a matter of dispute 
 
 as to the allowance of their accounts. This 
 is so in nine cases out of ten where persons 
 are charged with being defaulters. Under 
 such a state of facts this provision is exceed- 
 ingly loose. I think the matter should be 
 left entirely with the Legislature. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. If the gentleman will 
 read the section he will see that a person 
 must be convicted in court of crime, or of 
 being a defaulter, before he becomes disquali- 
 fied. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. 6. No contract of marriage, if otherwise 
 duly made shall be invalidated for want of con- 
 formity to requirements of any religious sect." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to strike out sec- 
 tion sixth. The section is wholly unneces- 
 sary. Marriage has been decided by all the 
 courts of this country, to be a civil contract, 
 and has no dependence upon the religious 
 forms of any sect whatever. Any person 
 authorized to perform the ceremony of mar- 
 riage may perform it in any manner he 
 chooses. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 "Sec. 7. No perpetuities shall be allowed ex- 
 cept for eleemosynary purposes. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move to strike out that 
 section. 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. 10. An accurate rnd detailed statement 
 of the receipts and expenditures of the public 
 money, the several amounts paid, to whom, and 
 on what account, shall from time to time be pub- 
 lished as shall be prescribed by law." 
 
 Mr. PECKH AM. I move to strike out that 
 section. 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 " Skc. 11. There may be established in the Sec- 
 retary of State's office, a bureau of statistics, un- 
 der such regulations as may be prescribed by law. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to strike out that 
 section. It gives no authority to tlie Legisla- 
 ture beyond what they would possess under 
 the Constitution in any event, and it may be 
 found very convenient to establish a bureau 
 in some other department than that of Sec- 
 retary of State, and therefore it should be left 
 to the Legislature. It simply says the Legis- 
 lature "may establish," while the Legislature 
 has the power to establish, without this pro- 
 vision. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I think the word " may" 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satcbday, August 22. 
 
 545 
 
 would be construed to mean " shall." If so, 
 we better leave it discretionary with the Leg- 
 islature, and strike out the section. 
 
 The motion to strike out was agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. V2. If this Constitution shall be ratified 
 by the people, the State Election Commissioners 
 shall forthwith, after having ascertained the fact, 
 issue writs of election to the several County Elec- 
 tion Commissioners of the several counties of this 
 State for the election of all the oflBcers the time of 
 whose election is fixed by this Constitution, and it 
 shall be tlie duty of said County Election Com- 
 missioners to give at least twenty days notice of 
 the time and place of said election, in the manner 
 now prescribed by law." 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I move to strike out that 
 section. I do not think anything of that kind 
 should be found in this place. It should be 
 in ths Schedule. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORX. There is nothing of 
 this kind in the schedule. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. It certainly should be m 
 the Schedule, for the provision is exhausted 
 after the first election, and there will be no 
 use for it after that. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. There is another difficulty. 
 The last clause says, " it shall be the duty of 
 "said County Election Commissioners to give 
 " at least twenty days notice of the time and 
 " place of said election, in the manner now 
 " prescribed by law." Now the manner pre- 
 scribed by law is that the Register of Deeds and 
 Judges of Probates shall issue writs of elec- 
 tion. Those officers in all the counties might 
 not be willing to perform that duty. 
 
 The motion to strike out was lost. 
 
 " Sec. 13. Xo navigable stream in this Stale 
 shall be either bridged or dammed without author- 
 ity from the board of Supervisors of the proper 
 county under the provisions of law. Xo such 
 law shall prejudice the right of individuals to 
 the free navigation of such streams, or preclude 
 the State from the further improvement of the 
 navigation of such stream." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. It seems to me that that 
 section is entirely unnecessary. The ground 
 is covered by the first section of the article 
 upon Public Property. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I move to amend by 
 inserting between the words " of" and " Su- 
 pervisors" the words " County Commissioners 
 or." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to strike out the 
 whole section. I do not think it should be 
 69 
 
 left to the Supervisors or Commissioners of 
 one county to determine what should be de- 
 termined by the ^\-hole State. 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. 14. Whenever the office of United States 
 Senator shall become vacant from any cause, 
 either by expiration of term, death, resignation 
 or otherwise, it shall be the duty of the Governor, 
 or person administering the government, to notify 
 the Legislature at their first session thereafter, and 
 on the first day thereof. And on the third day 
 thereafter the members of the Senate shall assem- 
 ble in the Hall of Representatives in joint Con- 
 vention, the President of the Senate acting as pre- 
 siding officer thereof, and they shall proceed to 
 fill said vacancy or vacancies, and the person hav- 
 ing a majority of all the ballots cast at said elec- 
 tion shall be declared duly elected." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I would inquu-e of the 
 committee whether, under this section, the 
 Legislature would have the power to elect a 
 Senator after the third day ? 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I would say that we 
 drew up this report somewhat in a hurry. 
 TVe were aware that something of this kind 
 was required in the Constitution, and if it 
 needs amendments, I hope they will be made. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. There are some diffi- 
 culties in the election of United States Sen- 
 ators which I should like to see obviated, but 
 I cannot think of any way of meeting those 
 exigencies by an article in the Constitution. 
 According to the provisions of the Constitu- 
 tion of the United States whenever a vacancy 
 occurs, the Governor is to appoint to fill the 
 vacancy until the Legislature fills it. You 
 cannot fix now upon any time when the Leois- 
 lature shall fill it, because you do not know 
 when the Legislature will be organized and 
 ready. If you fix upon a particular day, the 
 Legislature may not be then organized, and 
 the day having passed by, the Legislature 
 would not, under this article, have the power 
 to elect a senator during that session. 
 
 I move to strike out the section. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. HA YDEN. Some provision similar to 
 the one which has just been stricken out 
 should be incorporated in this report, and in 
 order that it may be referred back to the com- 
 mittee for the purpose of iraming such an 
 article, I move that th« committee rise and 
 report back the report to the Convention. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I do not know whether 
 a provision can be framed to meet all the ex- 
 
546 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satckday, August 22. 
 
 igencies of the case. In many States the 
 matter is left where the Constitution of the 
 United States leaves it. Most of the States 
 leave it with the Legislatures to prescribe the 
 manner in which senators shall be elected, 
 whether by joint Convention, or by the con- 
 currence of the two Houses separately. I 
 think it would be difficult to frame an article 
 to meet all the difficulties which gentlemen 
 would like to obviate. Under the Constitu- 
 tion of the United States, it would seem that 
 while the Governor has power to appoint a 
 person to fill a vacancy until the meeting of 
 the Legislature, yet if the Legislature should 
 fail to elect a United States Senator, the pow- 
 er of the Governor then ceases. The Consti- 
 tution makes no provision for an appointment 
 after the meeting of the Legislature. We 
 might incorporate some provision in our Con- 
 stitution giving the Governor power to ap- 
 point if the Legislature should fail to fill the 
 vacancy at its next session, because the Con- 
 stitution of the United States does not pro- 
 hibit us from making a provision of that 
 kind. 
 
 I have no particular objection to recom- 
 mitting the report to the committee, but I 
 have great doubts as to the propriety of put- 
 ting into the Constitution, a clause prescribing 
 the precise manner in which, and the time 
 when. United States Senators shall be elected. 
 Mr. MORGAN. The Constitution of the 
 United States does not confer upon the Gov- 
 ernor the power to appoint longer than till the 
 next session of the Legislature, nor do I think 
 that the Legislature of any State can confer 
 upon him such power. Had they that power, 
 I think it would have been exercised before 
 this time. I think if we should insert any 
 such clause in our organic law, it would be 
 deemed an infringement of the Constitution of 
 the United States. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. 1 am aware that that 
 is a controverted point, and one upon which 
 able men have differed. 
 
 The motion that the cmnmittee rise was 
 not agreed to. 
 
 " Sec. 15. There shall be elected in each judi- 
 cial circuit at the time of the electionof the Judge 
 of said circuit, two Regents of the University, 
 whose term of office shall be the same as that of 
 such Judge. The Regents thus elected shall con- 
 stitute the Board of Regents of the University of 
 Minnesota. The Regents of the University, and 
 
 their successors in office shall continue to consti- 
 tute the body corporate, known by the name and 
 title of ' the Regents of the University of Minne- 
 sota.' " 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I move to strike out that 
 section. When this matter of the University 
 was last before the Convention, I believe it 
 was understood that the whole matter was 
 to be left to the Legislature. There is now, 
 under the Territorial Lnw, a Board of twelve 
 Regents, part of whom hold office one year, 
 part two years, and part three years. This 
 section provides that they shall hold office six 
 years. The Regents are now chosen by the 
 legislature — four of them at every session. 
 The legislature is the better body for choos- 
 ing officers of this kind, and it is desirable 
 that the office should be'^kept out of the politi- 
 cal arena. If chosen in the judicial circuits, 
 the matter will be mixed up with politics, and 
 I do not think as good selections will be made 
 in that way. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. I hope the section will 
 not be stricken out. I am in favor of the 
 election of the Regents of the University by 
 the people, in preference to the Legislature. 
 In the first place, when they are elected by 
 the Legislature, as a general rule, they have 
 been elected from those residing at the seat of 
 government, or within a few miles around the 
 seat of government. Now this is a matter in 
 which all portions of the Territory are, and 
 should be as much interested as that portion 
 immediately around St. Paul, or immediately 
 around the institution itself. Notwithstand- 
 ing the fact that more than half the popula- 
 tion of this Territory lies south of St. Paul, 
 there is but one Regent out of twelve who 
 resides south of this city. I think the control 
 of the University fund should be put into the 
 hands of all portions of the Territory alike. 
 
 I think the gentleman is mistaken as to the 
 tin\e for which the Regents are elected. 1 
 believe they are all elected for a six years 
 term. This section then, does not change the 
 term of office, but only the mode of their 
 election. I think the mode proposed is Tair 
 and reasonable. I think that those who 
 would be nominated by the Convention would 
 be quite as well qualified as tho.se elected by 
 some lobbying Legislature. Lobby influence 
 has heretofore had much to do with tliis mat- 
 ter, in the same way as in the election of 
 ' other officers. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 22. 
 
 547 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. As my motion was made 
 partly out of respect to the present Board of 
 Regents, I withdraw it. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I move to amend the 
 section by adding thereto the words "and 
 " the said University of Minnesota is hereby 
 " declared to be the State University." 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. That is but a repetition 
 of the terms which immediately precede his 
 amendment. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I think not. There has 
 been no provision whatever in the Constitu- 
 tion for a University. Here is a section which 
 the Committee have refused to strike out, 
 which pi'oposes to alter the present plan of 
 electing the Regents of the University of 
 Minnesota, which, as it exists at present, is 
 the University of the Territory of Minnesota. 
 If it is thought desirable that this Convention 
 should introduce a section providing for the 
 election of the Regents of the University and 
 changing the plan that has already been pro- 
 vided by the Territory, it seems to me it is 
 proper that it should be provided that that 
 University shall be the State University of 
 Minnesota. The Convention should either do 
 that or let it alone entirelJ^ 
 
 The University of Minnesota, as it exists 
 under the act of incorporation, is an institu- 
 tion under the name and style of the " Uni- 
 versity of Minnesota," and whenever that 
 terra is used, it means that identical institu- 
 tion, and no other. The University of Min- 
 nesota is an existence at this time, and when- 
 ever those words are used, that particular 
 corporation is meant. Now it is proposed by 
 this section that the Constitution shall make 
 a change in the particular arrangement of that 
 institution. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. Merely in the election 
 of oflBcers, and no other. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. A very material change 
 in the regulations of that institution. Now I 
 ask what this Convention, or this Constitution 
 has to do with that institution, unless it pro- 
 poses to adopt it, as the State institution ? If 
 they do not propose to do that, they have no 
 right to meddle or interfere with it in the least. 
 They have no more right to do it than any 
 body of men in the streets. If they, how- 
 ever, adopt that institution as the State Univer- 
 sity of Minnesota, they have the right to do 
 so, and to provide the regulations heretofore 
 
 existing, or additional regulations. I do not 
 think it peculiarly desirable to make this 
 change in the manner of electing Regents, but 
 I do not object to it provided this Convention 
 adopt that institution as the State Institution 
 of Minnesota. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I am opposed to this sec- 
 tion entirely. I am opposed to it, first, be- 
 cause the subject was once thoroughly dis- 
 cussed, and we agreed to leave it exactly 
 where the Territorial Legislature and the En- 
 abling Act have left it, and I am in favor of 
 adhering to that decision. I am opposed to 
 it, in the second place, on account of the man- 
 ner in which it is proposed to elect these Re- 
 gents. They are to be elected in each judi- 
 cial circuit, at the same time and for the same 
 term, as the judges of those circuits. Then 
 we have the whole number of Regents elected 
 at the same time ; commencing their oflSces 
 at the same time ; and their ofiSces expiring at 
 the same time. If elected by the people, I 
 desire to have them classified so as to have a 
 part of their offices expire every two years. 
 But T prefer to leave the whole matter where 
 we once before determined to leave it. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. 1 am very much in favor 
 of the permanent location of that institution. 
 If we are going to take any legislative action 
 into our hands, I am in favor of giving it a 
 pennanent location. I oflFer a substitute for 
 the section as follows : 
 
 " The first Legislature of the State of Minnesota 
 shall make provision by law for the permanent 
 location of the University of Minnesota — and the 
 government of the same." 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. Mr. Chaikman : I am 
 sorry to see a disposition to go back again 
 into this discussion. I hope the gentlemen 
 will withdraw their amendments. We have 
 discussed the subject sufficiently, and it has 
 been decided, and decided too, against my 
 ideas of propriety. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. Perhaps the gentle- 
 man had better hear the amendments read 
 before he proceeds. 
 
 The section as proposed to be amended was 
 read through by the Chairman. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. The same subject mat- 
 ter, Mr. Chairman, has been once voted down 
 by this body. It has been thorougl ly dis- 
 cussed, and the Convention have decided 
 against the insertion of such an article in our 
 
548 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satueday, August 22. 
 
 Constitution ; and I cannot see any reason 
 now for bringing up the discussion again upon 
 this section, which merely proyides for the 
 election of the Regents of the University by 
 the people — that all the people shall have the 
 control of the University fund, instead of a 
 few persons near the Capitol. I think this is 
 a matter in which all the people of the Terri- 
 tory are interested, and should have a voice ; 
 and, as I said before, under the present sys- 
 tem of appointment of the Regents, heretofore 
 there has been one region of the Territory 
 that has had comparatively no voice in it. 
 More than half the people of this Territory 
 live south of the city of St. Paul, and there 
 has yet been only one of these twelve Regents 
 selected residing in that south half; the bal- 
 ance have resided in, and within a few miles 
 around this city. 
 
 This question, sir, has nothing to do with 
 the location of the Institution, nor with any 
 grant of land which has been made to it ; but 
 it is a proposition simply providing for the 
 election of the Regents of the State Universi- 
 ty. There is no necessity for using the word 
 "State" in order to make it the State Uni- 
 versity. It becomes so as a matter of course ; 
 still I have no objection to using the word, 
 and it could be inserted in the fifth line, before 
 the word " Minnesota." But I find this same 
 thing in the Constitution of the State of 
 Michigan, providing for the election of the 
 Regents of their University; and they did 
 not think it expedient to put in the word 
 " State." I will read the provision: 
 
 " Section 6. There shall be elected in each Ju- 
 dicial Circuit, at the same time of the election of 
 the Judge of such circuit, a Regent of the Uni- 
 versity, whose term of ortice shall be the same as 
 that of such Judge. The Regents thus elected 
 shall constitute the IJoard of Regents of the Uni- 
 ver.sity of Michigan." 
 
 Their University became the State Univer- 
 sity, as a matter of course. But, as I said 
 before, I have no objection to the use of the 
 word. It will not have any bearing, one way 
 or another, on either the grant of land or the 
 location, by prejudicing the location of the 
 Institution, or producing any effect whatever 
 on any future grant of land. ' It merely pro- 
 vides for the election of the Regents, in the 
 same manner that wc have provided for the 
 election of Judges and other State officers. 
 
 A.s I said before, sir, 1 am anxious to hare 
 
 this section adopted, although it will throw 
 me out of the Regency. It is a good element 
 in the Constitution — it is a guarantee for the 
 security of the University fund, provided for 
 by giving the control of it to the people. Let 
 the whole people of the Territory have a voice 
 in this matter, and not merely that portion of 
 the people who may reside in the vicinity of 
 the seat of government. Let us have some 
 voice in this matter in southern Minnesota. 
 Let us have an equal chance in the manage- 
 ment of the affairs of this Institution, in 
 which we all feel an equal interest. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Mr. Chairman: I am 
 surprised that the gentleman from Winona 
 should seem to complain that this discussion 
 has been forced upon the Convention by the 
 friends of the present location of the Univer- 
 sity. This report was made by those who 
 never voted for the present location ; and it 
 proposes in this Constitution to take away 
 from the University certain rights which the 
 Institution should possess under the State 
 government. Here is a proposition, that this 
 Convention shall change the manner of elect- 
 ing the Regents, and at tTie same time refuses 
 to recognize the Institution as the State Uni- 
 versity and recipient of the land grants of 
 Congi-ess. I repeat, sir, this section was not 
 brought forward by the friends of the Uni- 
 versity ; on the other hand, the motion was 
 made by my friend and colleague, the gentle- 
 man from Hennepin [Mr. Morgan] to strike 
 it out. 
 
 The gentleman from Winona says he is in 
 favor of the section, although it will throw 
 him out of office. But now, sir, I deny that 
 this Convention have any right to throw him 
 out of office. They can have nothing to do with 
 the Institution, nor vdth its officers, unless 
 they make it the child of their adoption. If 
 they recognize and establish it as the Univer- 
 sity of the State of Minnesota, they then 
 acquire a control over it, but not otherwise. 
 They may pass as inan}'^ sections as they 
 please, but unless they will invest the Insti- 
 tution with those certain privileges which it 
 is in theu' power to do, they had as well let it 
 alone. And what I ask is, that they should 
 let it alone, or do justice by it, and establish 
 it as the University of Minnesota, and the 
 beneficiary of the grants of lands to it, as 
 such. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 22. 
 
 549 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. Mr. Chaibman : I have 
 charged it upon him, and I do now again 
 charge it upon the gentleman from St. An- 
 thony, that he exhibits an undue sensitiveness 
 upon this subject, which involves an interest 
 not exclusively his own — not exclusively rep- 
 resented here by himself and his friends. 
 The moment a section is reported here for the 
 election of the Regents, they have to open the 
 whole subject about the recognition of the 
 University as a State Institution. I say 
 again, sir, this section has nothing to do with 
 these questions at all, they have no connec- 
 tion whatever with the election of Regents, 
 and the gentleman forces their consideration 
 upon the Convention, in order to arouse feel- 
 ing. There is really no ^occasion for sensi- 
 tiveness — nor need for any gtntleman to be 
 afraid of this section ; for it will neither con- 
 firm the location, nor recognize the Institution 
 as a State Institution. And on the other 
 hand, there is no reason for gentlemen on the 
 other side to fear, that it will recognize the 
 Institution as the State University, and es- 
 tablish its location. 
 
 It is simply a provision, that the people shall 
 hereafter elect the Regents of the University. 
 What objection can gentlemen have to this ? 
 I can see no other ground of fear than this :' 
 that, if the Regents were elected by the peo- 
 ple, the immediate locality which the gentle- 
 man represents may not get quite as large a 
 representation in the Board of Regents as they 
 now have. That is the only reason which I 
 can perceive for the gentleman's opposition ; 
 and I think now the only object in introducing 
 his amendment, is simply to secure somebody 
 on the other side, and induce them to vote 
 against the section, for fear it -may confirm 
 the location of the University at St. Anthony, 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Mr. Chairman : the gen- 
 tleman from Winona has presented a very 
 singular argument. He says he is in favor 
 of the election of the Regents by the people 
 of the several judicial circuits, so that southern 
 Minnesota, which contains two-thlxds of the 
 population of the State, may be justly rep- 
 resented in the Board — thereby imparting to 
 the people of southern Minnesota the weak- 
 ness, or the misfortune of sending men to the 
 Legislature, heretofore without the ability or 
 the will, to resist the blandishments and bri- 
 beries of the people of St. Anthony ! — men 
 
 coming here, representing two-thirds of the 
 people, and bartering and trifling with their 
 interests in this way ! 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS (interrupting.) Mr. Chair- 
 man : I rise to a question of order. I would 
 inquire whether the gentleman has a right to 
 speak more than twice on the same subject. 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The rule does not ap- 
 ply in committee of the "Whole. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE (resuming.) When gen- 
 lemen find that they can not get me down 
 under the rule, I hope they will keep their 
 seats. It was but the other day, that gen- 
 tlemen on the opposite side of this question, 
 in this same spirit, exercised this privilege 
 against me, and refused to allow me even to 
 read a proposition for information. But we 
 are now in committee of the Whole, and they 
 will have to wait for theu- snap-judgment tDl 
 some other occasions oflfers. 
 
 As I have said before, sir, I am not opposed 
 to the election of these Regents by the peo- 
 ple ; although I do not think it the best way. 
 I think the manner of their election as at 
 present provided by law, is better ; and, as 
 gentlemen may not know what the law is, I 
 will read it. It is in the Revised Statutes, 
 section five, chapter twenty-eight : 
 
 "The members of the Board of Regents shall 
 be elected at the present session of the Legislature 
 and shall be divided into classes numbers one, two 
 and three. Class number one shall hold their 
 office for two years ; class number two for four 
 years ; and class number three, for six years from 
 the first Monday of February 1851; biennially 
 thereafter there shall be elected in joint Conven- 
 tion of both branches of the Legislature four mem- 
 bers to supply the vacancies made by the provis- 
 ions of this section, and who shall hold their ofiice 
 for six years respectively." 
 
 Now, the proposed section does not change 
 the term of the office at all. They hold for 
 six years now. But it is proposed to change 
 the manner of their election ; to take it from 
 the joint Convention of both branches of the 
 Legislature, and give it to the six Judicial 
 Circuits. There are, at present, according to 
 the judiciary article, six Judicial Circuits, 
 which would give twice that number of Re- 
 gents. But then we have a proposition to in- 
 crease the Circuits to twelve; and in that 
 event we would have twenty-four Regents. 
 Therefore the section is not merely a propo- 
 sition to change the manner of the election of 
 the Regents, but to change theirnumber als». 
 
660 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 22. 
 
 Still, I do not object, if the Convention will 
 put themselves into a position upon this sub- 
 ject, that will give them a right to meddle in 
 the aflfairs of the University. If the Conven- 
 tion will come forward, as I think it would be 
 very proper and right for them to do, and de- 
 clare that the present University shall be 
 adopted as the State University , then they 
 will have one undoubted right to impose any 
 reasonable and proper change upon the Uni- 
 versity, and the Institution will be bound to 
 accept it. 
 
 This, Mr. Chairman, is what I contend 
 for ; and I will say again, that I cannot but 
 think the people of Southern Minnesota will 
 not be very thankful to the gentleman for the 
 imputation, that they have been sending in- 
 competent and unworthy men here to repre- 
 sent their rights in the Legislature. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. Mr. Chairmax : I should 
 not have introduced my amendment, but for 
 my desire to secure the donations of land to 
 the University. I am in favor, for one, of 
 securing for it the most ample endowment, 
 and making it an institution of the very first 
 class. I have consulted no one in what I 
 have done. I repeat, that I am in favor of 
 some permanent location of the institution. 
 I do not desire the recurrence of these use- 
 less discussions and agitations of the ques- 
 tion of removal. We want this institution 
 built upon a firm basis, which cannot be 
 moved ; and if our friends in Southern Min- 
 nesota will protect and cherish it, and take 
 care of its interests better than they of the 
 centre, I am perfectly willing to go with 
 them for its location there, and for its perma- 
 nent location; so as to have done with all 
 this strife about its removal from St. Anthony 
 to Hastings, Wauseca, Winona, or whereso- 
 ever. I want the thing permanent and fixed 
 never subject to removal for the accommo- 
 dation of local interests, as the seat of gov- 
 ernment of the State of Iowa has been for 
 the last several years. I am in favor, also, 
 of the election of the Regents by the people ; 
 and still more democratic, I would be in fa- 
 vor of allowing the Legislature to pass the 
 laws on that subject. But I am decidedly in 
 favor of some provision being adopted by this 
 Convention, which shall secure the most per- 
 manent location of the institution. 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. Mr. Chairman : It is 
 
 well known to every member of this Conven- 
 tion, that Avhen that question was before us, 
 I was in favor of the present location of the 
 University — of putting an article into the 
 Constitution which would locate the institu- 
 tion permanently at St. Anthony, and so put- 
 ting it out of the reach of legislation. I be- 
 lieved that was right and best, and I voted 
 accordingly ; but a majority of the Conven- 
 tion believed and voted otherwise. I advo- 
 cated the proposition for tying up the Univer- 
 sity at St. Anthony ; and the same proposi- 
 tion which the gentleman from St. Anthony 
 has offered now, was offered then as an 
 amendment, and voted down — 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I think not, Mr. Chair- 
 man ; no amendment has been brought for- 
 ward for such a purpose. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. If my recollection 
 serves me aright, there was an amendment 
 referring the location to the first Legislature. 
 I may be mistaken. 
 Mr. FOLSOM. It was talked of. 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. Very well ; be that as 
 it may ; I now say, as a matter of course, I 
 am opposed to any further agitation of the 
 subject here, especially under the circum- 
 stances — having but a limited time, and much 
 need of harmony — I think it would be very 
 unwise to continue this discussion. In fact, 
 I have been opposed to its discussion at any 
 time, since the disposition was manifested to 
 leave the matter to go over to future legisla- 
 tion. Then let us not emban-ass the subject. 
 Let them have full sweep ; and let us all 
 have an opportunity there. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. Mr. Chairman : Is it 
 in order now to offer an amendment ? 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will re- 
 ceive it. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM. I submit the following, 
 by way of substitute for the fifleenth section 
 and amendments : 
 
 "There shall be a Board of Public Instruction, 
 for the control of the University of Minnesota, 
 and for the general supervision of the public 
 schools of the State. There shall be elected in 
 each judicial circuit at the time of the election of 
 the Judge of said circuit, two members of the said 
 Board of Public Instruction, whose term of office 
 shall be the same as that of such Judge. The.Su- 
 perintendant of Public Instruction shall be ex- 
 officio a member of the Board of Public Instruc- 
 tion, and shall be Secretary of said Board." 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 24. 
 
 551 
 
 It seems to me, Mr. Chaibmax, as a very 
 important thing, that the University and the 
 school fund should be, as far as possible, im- 
 der the control of one Board of Public In- 
 struction ; and that we should have a system 
 of instruction for the State extending from 
 the common schools up to the University ; 
 and the design of the amendment is, to have 
 but one Board, and that they sliall have the 
 whole matter under their general supervision. 
 It is not my desire at this time to go into any 
 argument. 
 
 The substitute was rejected. 
 
 The question was then taken on Mr. Fol- 
 som's amendment, and it was also rejected. 
 
 The question now being upon the adoption 
 of Mr. Secombe's amendment — 
 
 Mr. MAXTOR. Mr. Chairman: I pro- 
 pose the following amendment to the amend- 
 ment: 
 
 Add these words : " And the said Uni- 
 *' versity shall be established at Mantorville, 
 " in Dodge county." (Laughter.) 
 
 The amendment to the amendment was 
 rejected ; and the question recurring again on 
 the adoption of Mr. Secombe's amendment, 
 it was also rejected. 
 
 On motion of Mr. KEMP, the Committee 
 now rose, and the Chairman reported £he 
 amendments to the Convention, with a recom- 
 mendation that the same do pass. 
 
 On motion of Mr. COLBURN, the Conven- 
 tion took a recess till half-past two o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 The Convention assembled at half past two 
 o'clock, and thereupon adjourned until Mon- 
 day, the 24th inst. 
 
 THIRTY-SEVENTH DAY. 
 
 MoxDAY, August 24, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. m. 
 Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. E. D. Neill. 
 The journal of yesterday was read and 
 approved. 
 
 jaSCELLAXEOUS PROVISIONS. 
 
 Under the order of unfinished business the 
 Convention took up for consideration Report 
 No. 25, on Miscellaneous Provisions, the ques- 
 tion being on concurring in the amendments 
 made by the Committee of the Whole. 
 
 The several amendments recommended by 
 the Conmiittee of the Whole were concurred 
 in, except the fourth amendment to strike out 
 section ten, which was non-concurred in. 
 
 Mr. LYLE. ■ As the amendments recom- 
 mended by the jCommittee are disposed of^ I 
 oflfer the following additional section — 
 
 "Institutions for the benefit of those inhabitants 
 who are deaf, dumb, blind or insane shall always 
 be fostered and sustained by legislative enact- 
 ments." 
 
 I think it very important that some provi- 
 sion should be made for the benefit of those 
 afiiicted inhabitants of our incoming State. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. The amendment is in- 
 definite. " Shall be fostered and sustained" 
 are words capable of great latitude of con- 
 struction. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. BUTLER ofiered the foUowing addi- 
 tional section — x ' 
 
 "The powers of the government of Minnesota 
 shall be divided into three separate departments, 
 the Legislative, Executive and Judicial; and no 
 person charged with the exercise of powers prop- 
 erly belonging to one of those departments, shall 
 exercise any function appertaining to either of the 
 others, except in such cases as are directed or per- 
 mitted by this Constitution." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. KING oflfered the fdlowing additional 
 section — 
 
 " At the same time this Constitution is submit- 
 ted to the people for their adoption or rejection a 
 separate proposition shall be submitted upon the 
 same ballot to the electors of this State for adop- 
 tion or rejection in manner following, viz : — " Free 
 suffrage; Yes:" " Free sufiFrage ; Xo:" and if, at 
 said election the number of ballots cast in favor of 
 said proposition shall be a majority of all votes 
 cast on that subject, then all restrictions on the 
 right of suffrage in regard to color shall be stricken 
 from the Constitution." 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN, As there seexas to be 
 many amendments offered to this report, I 
 move that the Convention resolve . itself into 
 committee of the Whole to take under consid- 
 eration this report. 
 
 Mr. KING. I see no necessity for such a 
 course. We have just come out of commit- 
 tee, and disposed of its recommendations, 
 and we can dispose of this amendment just 
 as well in Convention as in committee. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 The Convention accordingly resolved itself 
 into committee of the Whole, (Mr. Dcley in 
 
552 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Monday, August 24. 
 
 the Chair), and assumed the consideration of 
 the report upon Miscellaneous Provisions. 
 
 Mr. KING offered his amenlment as an 
 additional section. 
 
 Mr. C LEGHORN. I move to amend the 
 amendment by striking out thfe words "free 
 suffrage" wherever they occur and inserting 
 in their place the words "shall the word 
 ' white' be stricken out," and by striking out 
 all after the word "subject" and insertuig 
 " then the word ' white ' shall be stricken out 
 of the article upon the Elective Franchise." 
 
 Mr. IIAYDEN offered the foUowing substi- 
 tute for the additional section and amend- 
 ment — 
 
 "Sec. — . At the same election that this Con- 
 stitution is submitted to the people for its adoption 
 or rejection, a proposition to amend the same by 
 striking out the word "white" from the article- 
 section one, on the "Right of Suffrage," shall be 
 separately submitted to the electors of this State 
 for adoption or rejection in manner following : A 
 separate ballot may be given by every person hav- 
 ing a right to vote at said election to be deposited 
 in a separate box ; and those given for the adop- 
 tion of such proposition shall have the words: 
 "Shall the word 'white' be stricken out of the 
 article— section one, on the Right of Suffrage? 
 Yes." And those given against the proposition 
 shall have the words : " Shall the word ' white ' be 
 stricken out of article — section one, on the Right 
 of Suffrage? No." And if, at said election, the 
 number of ballots cast in favor of said proposition 
 shall be a majority of all those cast on that sub- 
 ject, the said word "white " shall be stricken from 
 said article and be no part thereof." 
 
 The substitute was adopted. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. My colleague, Mr. But- 
 LEB, offered this morning an additional sec- 
 tion, which was drawn up in haste, and needs 
 a slight modification. It was as follows : — 
 
 "Sec. — . The powers of the government of 
 the State of Minnesota shall be divided into three 
 separate departments — the Legislative, the Execu- 
 tive and the Judicial ; and no person charged with 
 exercising powers properly belonging to one of 
 these departments shall exercise any of the func- 
 tions belonging to either of the other departments, 
 except in such cases as are directed or permitted 
 by this Constitution." 
 
 Now all State officers must belong to one 
 or the other of those departments, and Justi- 
 ces of the Peace, Notary Publics, and Militia 
 OflBcers, would, under that section, be exclu- 
 ded from holding a scat in the Legislature. 
 I do not believe that such was the intention 
 of the Convention. As that section is now a I 
 
 part of this report, I move to strike out al 
 after the word "Judicial." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. FOLSOM. Section fourteen of this 
 report, in reference to filling vacancies in the 
 U. S. Senate, has been stricken out. I think 
 it all important that our Constitution should 
 make some provision for filling such vacancies. 
 I offer the following additional section — 
 
 "Skc. 7. Whenever the office of United States 
 Senator shall become vacant from any cause, it 
 shall be the duty of the Governor, or person ad- 
 ministering the government, to notify the Legisla- 
 ture at their first session thereafter, and on the 
 first day after the permanent organization of both 
 branches thereof, the members of the Senate shall 
 assemble in the Hall of Representatives in joint 
 convention, the President of the Senate acting as 
 presiding officer thereof, and they shall proceed to 
 fill said vacancy or vacancies, and may adjourn from 
 day to day until said vacancy or vacancies shall be 
 filled ; and the person having a majority of all the 
 ballots cast at said election shall be declared duly 
 elected." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 On motion of Mr. CLEGHORN, the com- 
 mittee then rose and reported the report and 
 amendments to the Convention with a recom- 
 mendation that the amendments be concurred 
 in. . 
 
 The question being on the first amendment 
 recommended by the committee — 
 
 Mr. KING said: — The amendment offered 
 in the committee by the gentleman from Hen- 
 nepin (Mr. Hayden) and now under consid- 
 eration, does not suit my views. The section 
 is too complicated to suit my views, and to 
 answer the objects intended. I propose to 
 offer as a substitute, my amendment modified 
 as follows : 
 
 Sec. — . At the same time that this Constitution 
 shall be submitted to the people for their adoption 
 or rejection, a separate proposition shall be sub- 
 mitted upon the same ballot to the electors of the 
 State for adoption or rejection, in manner follow- 
 ing, viz: "Shall the word 'white' be striken 
 out." Those voting in the affirmative shall write 
 or print the word ' Yes; ' those voting in the neg- 
 ative, the word ' No ' ; and if at said election, the 
 number of ballots cast in favor of said proposition 
 shall be a majority of all the votes cast on that 
 subject, the said word ' white ' shall be stricken 
 from said article and be no part thereof. 
 
 The substitute was rejected. 
 The amendment recommended by the com- 
 mittee of the Whole was then concurred in. 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Tuesday, August 25. 
 
 553 
 
 The next amendment recommended by the 
 committee was to strike out all after the word 
 "Judicial " in the section, dividing the powers 
 of the government into three departments. 
 
 The amendment was concurred in. 
 
 The next amendment was the additional 
 section in regard to filling vacancies in the 
 United States Senate. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move to amend that 
 amendment, by adding after the word "Sen- 
 ate " the words "and members of the House 
 of Representatives." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 The question being on concurring in the 
 section as amended — 
 
 Mr. GERRISH moved a call of the Con- 
 vention, which was not agreed to. 
 
 The additional section as amended was 
 then concured in. 
 
 Mr. PECKHAM moved to amend the fif- 
 teenth section of the Report, relating to the 
 election of Regents of the University, by in- 
 serting after the word " Minnesota," where 
 it first occurs, the words " The Superintend- 
 ent of Public Instruction shall be ex-offido a 
 member of said Board." 
 
 The amendment was rejected. 
 
 The report was then ordered to be engross- 
 ed for a third reading. 
 
 On motion of Mr. HARDING the conven- 
 tion took a recess until half past two o'clock. 
 
 • AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 The Convention was called to order pursu- 
 ant to adjournment, and on motion of Mr. 
 Watsox immediately adjourned. 
 
 THIRTY-EIGHTH DAY. 
 
 Tuesday, August 25th, 1857. 
 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock, a. m. 
 
 The Journal of yesterday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR, fixjm the committee on 
 Engrossment reported back Report number 
 twenty -five, on Miscellaneous Provisions, as 
 correctly engrossed. 
 
 Mr. LYLE offered the following resolution : 
 
 " Besolved, That this Convention adjourn on 
 Thursday the 27th inst., without day." 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I hope the resolution will 
 not be adopted. We would all like to finish 
 70 
 
 our labors on Thursday if we can, but it is 
 impossible to say whether we can do so or 
 not, and it would be useless to pass a resolu- 
 tion which we do not know that we can carry 
 out. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The resolution, giving 
 rise to debate, will lay over under the rules. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR moved to suspend the rules 
 so far as to allow the consideration of the 
 resolution at this time. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to, and the 
 resolution was laid over. 
 
 Mr. KING moved to take up Report num- 
 ber twenty -five upon Miscellaneous Provis- 
 ions, and put it upon its third reading and 
 final passage. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. The committee on 
 Miscellaneous Provisions have other matters 
 to report, and I think it better to let this 
 report remain as it is imtil the committee 
 report finally. 
 
 Mr. KING withdrew his motion. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS offered the following reso- 
 lution : 
 
 "Hesolved, That the committee on Arrangement 
 and Phraseology is hereby requested to report 
 back such articles to this Convention as they have 
 considered." 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. My impression is that the 
 committee on Arrangement and Phraseology 
 cannot report article by article. The object 
 of that committee is to arrange the articles in 
 the proper order in which they should stand. 
 
 The resolution was not agreed to. 
 
 On motion of Mr. KING, the Convention 
 took a recess until half past two o'clock. 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention was called to order at half 
 past two o'clock. 
 
 On motion of Mr. SECOMBE, the Conven- 
 tion took a recess imtil five o'clock. 
 
 The Convention was called to order at five 
 o'clock, and on motion of Mr. North, ad- 
 journed. 
 
 THIRTY-NINTH DAY. 
 
 Wedn-esday, August 26th, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock A. M. 
 The journal of yesterday was read and 
 approved. 
 
 FINAL ADJOUBSKENrr 
 
 The resolution of Mr. Lyle, offered yester- 
 
654 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 26. 
 
 day, in reference to the final adjournment of 
 the Convention, coming up under the regular 
 order of business — 
 
 Mr. HARDING moved to lay the same 
 upon the table. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I would enquire of the 
 Chair whether all the reports have been 
 passed and referred to the committee upon 
 Arrangement and Phraseology ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. There are half-a-dozen 
 reports yet unacted on. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. It seems to me that they 
 should be immediately passed and referred to 
 that committee. They will require some 
 consideration after that committee reports 
 upon them. 
 
 On motion of Mr. COLBURN, the Con- 
 vention took a recess until half-past ten 
 o'clock, A. M. 
 
 At the expiration of the recess, the Pbesi- 
 DBNT resumed the Chair. 
 
 ASSAULT ON MK. WILSON. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH, chairman of the com- 
 mittee of Conference, made the following 
 report, which was accepted and ordered to be 
 entered upon the journal, viz : 
 
 "The Conference Committee would respectfully 
 report that on yesterday, (August twenty-fifth) 
 while in session of the joint committee, Ex-Gov. 
 Willis A. Goeman, chairman of the committee, 
 appointed by the Convention holding its session 
 in the Council Chamber of this Capitol, committed 
 a violent assault upon Thomas Wilson, a member 
 of this committee. 
 
 Your committee therefore respectfully request 
 instf actions from this Convention as to their future 
 course of action in view of the events that have 
 transpired. THOS. J. GALBRAITH, 
 
 Chairman. 
 
 To the Goiistitutional Convention. 
 
 Mr. GERRtSH offered the following pre- 
 amble and resolutions : 
 
 ♦< Whebbas, It appears by the report just receiv- 
 ed, that Willis A. Gorman, chairman of the com- 
 mittee appointed by the Convention sitting in 
 the other end of the Capitol, to confer with a com- 
 mittee appointed by this Convention, did, on the 
 twenty-lifth instant, while the committees were in 
 session, commit a violent assault, without any just 
 cause or provocation, upon Thomas Wilson, Esq., 
 a member of the commiitee appointed by this 
 Convention; therefore, 
 
 "Resolved, That the committee of this Conven- 
 tion be requested to hold no further conference 
 with the aforesaid committee, so long as Willis 
 A. GoEMAN continueB to be o member thereof. 
 
 Mr. HARDING. I move that the rules be 
 so far suspended as to allow the resolution to 
 be considered now. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I have a word to say, 
 and only a word. The committee does not 
 report that the assault was without just 
 cause or provocation. We cannot do that 
 without putting upon the records the grounds 
 upon which we base such a conclusion. I 
 cannot consent that a resolution pronouncing 
 a conviction, shall go upon the journal, with- 
 out having the evidence upon which it is 
 founded, publicly expressed upon the journals 
 of the Convention also. We have reported 
 only that such an occurrence took place, and 
 it is now for the Convention to take action 
 upon it, and to make the record right so that 
 we can show to the world the evidence upon 
 which we based our accusation. This is 
 merely a report to base the action of the 
 Convention upon. At present the facts are 
 not stated. The Convention have not the 
 facts before them, and before this resolution 
 is passed, I ask that the facts be ascertained 
 and placed upon the record. I do not want 
 the Convention to act upon what they have 
 heard outside. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I move that this matter 
 be made the special order for this afternoon 
 at half-past two o'clock. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I would submit t« the 
 Convention the propriety of that course, as a 
 part of the committee of Conference are now 
 in the Secretary's oflBce, waiting for the part 
 of the committee from this body. The prob- 
 ability is that all the subject matters before 
 that {committee can be disposed of, one ^sij 
 or another, in the course of two hours, and if 
 anything is to be done about this assault, it 
 should be done at once. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I withdraw my motion. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. The gentleman from Chi- 
 sago says that a part of the committee arc 
 now waiting in the Secretary's oflBce for the 
 committee from this body. I would ask the 
 gentleman what committee they expect from 
 this bodyV Have they the impudence to 
 believe that tliis body is going to send the 
 same man down there who was so brutally 
 assaulted yesterday? Do they believe we 
 are so lost to our self-respect that we can 
 treat with them while all their members still 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wed>-esday, August 26. 
 
 555 
 
 continue upon it ? So long as I am a mem- 
 ber of this body, my ^ sanction cannot be had 
 for such a course. As I have said before, I 
 am ready for any compromise which can be 
 made consistently with our self-respect, but I 
 can do nothing towards furthering the action 
 of that committee, while "Willis A. Gokman 
 is a member of it. We have had it reported 
 by our Conference committee that Wilus A. 
 GoRMAX did commit an outragrous assault, 
 and we know it is without provocation. Shall 
 we send Mr. "Wilson down there again to 
 meet Willis A. Gobmak ? I am not one of 
 those who choose to conciliate any adverse 
 party by placing myself in a groveling posi- 
 tion. So long as I can maintain what I think 
 to be a right, I am ready to make compro- 
 mises. I am not willing to go any lower. I 
 am as low as I can go, and I will not send 
 down another committee from this body while 
 Gorman is a member of that committee. 
 
 I like the resolution, but I think it can be 
 improved. I oflFer the following substitute 
 for the preamble of the resolution : 
 
 " Whereas, By the report of the committee of 
 the Conference, just received by this Convention, 
 it appears that a gross personal assault was made 
 by Willis A. Goemax, a member of the commit- 
 tee of Conference appointed on the part of the 
 Convention sitting in the Council Chamber of this 
 Capitol, upon Thomas Wilsox, a member of the 
 said eommitiee, appointed on the part of this Con- 
 vention, during the session of the said committee, 
 and yesterday ; therefore" 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. In cases of this kind 
 we are liable to be excited, and I am disposed 
 to keep very cool. I am in favor of disposing 
 of this matter, now, and against postponing 
 it, for the reason that if this committee of 
 Conference is to be continued, it ought to be 
 determined by this Convention now, so that 
 they can finish their labors to day. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER moved to amend by striking 
 out all after the preamble, and inserting the 
 following : 
 
 " Resolved, That the committee of this Conven- 
 tion be instructed to notify the committee of the 
 other body, that they cannot meet with them so 
 long as Willis A. Gorman shall participate in the 
 proceedings of the committee." 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The question must be 
 first put on the substitute for the preamble. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I am opposed to this last 
 substitute. If there was a gross personal I 
 
 assault, and there was any justifiable excuse 
 for it, then we ought not to refuse to confer 
 with the committee in consequence of that 
 assault. If it was not justifiable, then our 
 position is correct. Now I say nothing will 
 justify such an assault, unless a similar as- 
 sault was committed first upon Mr. Gorman, 
 compelling him to put himself upon the de- 
 fence. I say no words would justify it, there- 
 fore I am prepared to say, as a member of 
 this Convention, that the assault was without 
 a justifiable cause. Hence I am opposed to 
 the preamble and substitute. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. The report is before 
 the Convention, and all I ask of the Conven- 
 tion is to use the language of the report. We 
 have reported the naked fact that a violent 
 assault was committed, without qualifying 
 terms at all. Whether there should be quali- 
 fying terms, is a matter to be decided upon 
 investigation. It does not appear by our re- 
 port that there should be, though, as an in- 
 dividual, I am ready to say there was no cause 
 for the assault. But it does not appear in our 
 report that that is so, and we did not wish to 
 put it in our report. We wished simply to 
 state the offence. That was plain enough to 
 any man. If the Convention caUs upon us 
 to report the facts of the case, we will do so; 
 but there is now nothing upon the record but 
 the simple fact of the assault committed, and 
 the Convention is called upon, by the resolu- 
 tion, to vote upon a matter of which there is, 
 as yet, no record. We have not reported 
 testimony in the case. The members of the 
 committee are ready to give their testimony, 
 if called upon by the Convention. But all we 
 ask of the Convention is now that the Con- 
 vention should act upon the simple fact of 
 the assault. 
 
 Mr. BOBBINS. I thought when I offered 
 the substitute, that it was in the exact lan- 
 guage of the report of the gentleman who has 
 just taken his seat. I intended that it should 
 be so, and if the gentleman will suggest such 
 alteration as he desires, I will accept it. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I desire that the lan- 
 guage of the report should be used. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. The language of the re- 
 port is, " violent assault," and the language 
 of the substitute is, " gross personal assault." 
 There is hardly difference enough to make* 
 distinction. 
 
556 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 26. 
 
 By general consent the words " violent as- 
 sault " were substituted for " gross personal 
 assault." 
 
 The substitute for the preamble of the res- 
 olution was then adopted. 
 
 The question then recurred upon the sub- 
 stitute for the resolution, offered by Mr. 
 Foster. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the amendment 
 will not prevail. The resolution, as it was 
 originally offered, provides that the committee 
 appointed upon the part of this Convention, 
 wUl hold no further conference with the com- 
 mittee appointed upon the part of the Con- 
 vention sitting in the Council Chamber, so long 
 as Willis A. Gorsian " remains a member 
 of the committee," while the amendment 
 offered by the gentleman from Dakota county 
 uses the language " participates in the pro- 
 ceedings of the committee." 
 
 Now I understand that this is part of a 
 plan or system, which has been got up, by 
 which Messrs. Wilson and Gorman shall, by 
 common consent, retire themselves from the 
 committee, and the other four members upon 
 each side, shall go on and complete the labors 
 of the committee. For one, I protest against 
 any such action. I wish this Convention to 
 take the ground that they will hold no further 
 conference so long as the offending member is 
 a member of that committee. I desire that 
 this Convention shall put the matter in such 
 a position that the other Convention will be 
 bound to show their hand upon this matter, 
 and take a position either to justify the action 
 of the member of their committee alluded to, 
 or to repudiate it, and put that disclaimer 
 upon the record in full and bold terms. I 
 wish, as a member of this Convention, to know 
 whether the Convention sitting in the other 
 end of the Capitol do countenance that action 
 or not. I wish to know whether they admit 
 it as a part of the policy which they wish to 
 inaugurate in the coming campaign. If they 
 do not so desire, I would like to have them 
 come out and disclaim all connection with it, 
 as a Convention. Now the proposition offer- 
 ed by the gentleman from Dakota county, al- 
 lows Willis A. Gorman to withdraw from the 
 meetings of the committee to attend to his 
 own private affairs, to skulk out of the way 
 of the retributive hands of justice, and to 
 relieve the Convention sitting in the other end 
 
 of the Capitol from the responsibility of pass- 
 ing upon the question. I hope, therefore, the 
 amendment will not prevail, but that the ori- 
 ginal resolution will pass, and that this Con- 
 vention will offer the alternative to the other 
 Convention, either boldly to adopt the policy 
 of their dictator, or to disclaim it. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. The gentleman from Hen- 
 nepin has explained what was meant by the 
 proposition which has been introduced by the 
 gentleman from Dakota, which renders it un- 
 necessary to do what I was about to do — ask 
 the gentleman from Dakota if, in covering up 
 this thing he wished to pass something through 
 this Convention, which members of this Con- 
 vention, if not the Convention itself, would 
 not vote for, if the motive was apparent, 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I think the gentleman from 
 Olmsted ought to hesitate when he imputes to 
 others, motives different from those which 
 appear upon the face of things. I am one 
 of those who condemn the outrage which has 
 been committed, as gross, unprovoked, and 
 quite characteristic of the man who perpetra- 
 ted it, but we may differ as to the best course 
 of poUcy to pursue. We were sent here to 
 frame a Constitution, not for ourselves, but 
 for the people. We were sent here to inau- 
 gurate a government for the benefit of the 
 whole people, and to take care that the career 
 of prosperity upon which Minnesota has thus 
 far proceeded, shall not be checked, and that 
 anarchy shall not prevail ; that two govern- 
 ments shall not be instituted with two full 
 sets of officers, contending for the suprema- 
 cy in our State. I am for pursuing a policy , 
 which shall prevent such a state of things, 
 because it will certainly bring ruin upon our 
 Territory. So long as the course pursued by 
 the members of the other Convewtion forced 
 upon us the alternative of making two dis- 
 tinct Constitutions, and submitting them to 
 people, I was willing to do so, because I knew 
 that we were right, and there was no other 
 course before us. They would be responsible 
 for the result. But a compromise was pro- 
 posed and we have proceeded so far in it, 
 that the committeeof compromise have agreed 
 upon an apportionment for representation, an 
 arrangement of the judiciary, fend upon the 
 same set of oflBcers, and there now remains 
 but one other point to arrange, and that is 
 the mode of submitting the Constitution to 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 26. 
 
 557 
 
 the people. Having proceeded thus far, I am 
 un\villing, on account of angry or party feel- 
 ing, to close the door against finishing and 
 completing this compromise. Therefore it is, 
 that I offer the resolution that the committee, 
 if this man shall not appear and participate in 
 their deliberation, may proceed to finish the 
 work confided to them. 
 
 As to what the gentleman across the way 
 (Mr. Secombe,) said, as to not allowing Mr. 
 Wilson to participate in their proceedings, I 
 do not know of any such arrangement, though 
 if he should retire, it would be nothing more 
 than what has been done heretofore. It has 
 been a common practice in the committee. I 
 have been informed, if one member was ab- 
 sent, for some member upon the opposite side 
 not to participate in the deliberations of the 
 committee. Three members upon each side 
 would be suflBcient to go on and complete 
 their labors. I hope that gentlemen will look 
 at this matter in the proper light, and see to 
 it, that we substantially accomplish all that 
 we ought to do, and, while we direct our com- 
 mittee not to associate with that man, yet wiU 
 authorize them, in his absence, to go and ac- 
 complish the work before them. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I hope we shall not spend 
 much time in discussing this matter. I be- 
 lieve the substitute offefed by the gentleman 
 from Dakota meets the views and wishes, so 
 far as I can learn, of the men who are best 
 acquainted with all the facts, and for that rea- 
 son I shall vote for it, and hope it will 
 prevail. 
 
 Mr. ROBBIXS. The gentleman answered 
 ray question simply by requesting me not to 
 impute wrong motives to any member who 
 might offer an amendment to the resolution. 
 I did not do so. I asked the gentleman a 
 simple, plain, straight forward question. I 
 now understand his design to be to allow 
 GoBMAN to remain on the committee, without 
 participating in its doings. I consider that 
 would be an insult to myself and to this 
 Convention. Though I would like to vote 
 with my friend upon my right, I cannot do 
 so. There is something in this beyond mere 
 party policy. We came here to frame a Con ■ 
 stitution for aU — Republicans and Democrats. 
 We came here, and have acted all along in a 
 strictly parliamentary manner. We took 
 possession of this Hall ; we have kept pos- 
 
 session of it; we organized, and we com- 
 mitted no outrage. AYe had a majority of 
 legally elected delegates to this Constitutional 
 Convention, holding their credentials fi"om the 
 proper officers. Behind them we could not 
 go. Outside pressure has forced us from the 
 position we took. That position was a good 
 and strong one, and we did wrong when we 
 succumbed to outside pressure. We did 
 wrong because it was not successful in its ob- 
 ject. I regret that we did yield to it on that 
 account, not that under the same circumstan- 
 ces I would not vote for the same thing 
 again, for I would, as I believe what we did 
 was intended for good. 
 
 Well, we succumbed to a minority, and ap- 
 pointed a committee from this body to meet a 
 committee from that body. The people 
 demanded it, and we yielded to that demand 
 because it was merely a parliamentary matter. 
 But now comes a different state of thiiig-s. 
 A member of our committee has been grossly 
 assaulted. Now when it comes to blows, af- 
 ter all the sacrifices we have made, I think it 
 is time that we should pause. Our own self- 
 respect requires that we should stop ; and 
 our constituents require that we should stop. 
 I do not think that a single individual of those 
 who sent me here would bear me out in tak- 
 ing another forward step. I do not think 
 they require such a compromise as that ; and 
 if they do, they must require it of somebody 
 besides me. If they wish me to sacrifice 
 everything — reputation, principle, honor — I 
 cannot do it. And if the people will not sus- 
 tain the action of this Convention, so far as 
 the Convention have been right, the respon- 
 sibility rests with the people, and there we 
 ought to be content to leave it. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I regret that the pream- 
 ble of the resolution has been changed. It 
 met my views exactly. But that preamble 
 having been stricken out and another adopted 
 in its place, which, to my mind, is wrong, and 
 presents us in a wrong light, I shall be com- 
 pelled to vote for the substitute offered by 
 the gentleman from Dakota county. This 
 Convention has declared that no evidence has 
 come before them to show that the assault 
 committed by Gorman was justifiable. Now 
 if that assault was justifiable, why should we 
 discontinue our intercourse with that commit- 
 tee? If it was not justifiable, why not as- 
 
558 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Wednesday, August 26. 
 
 sert it, and not imply that it was justifiable ? 
 But as the committee have refused to say that 
 it was not justifiable, I say pass the resolu- 
 tion, and let us take our own course un- 
 der it. 
 
 Mr. HUDSON. I am in favor of the orig- 
 inal resolution, and opposed to the substi- 
 tute. If a member of our committee has 
 been assaulted and insulted, every member of 
 this Convention has been insulted. If one 
 member of their committee has been guUty 
 of an outrage, every member of that Conven- 
 tion who sustains it, is equally guilty of an 
 outrage, and for one I am decidedly opposed 
 to our committee having any farther negotia- 
 tions with that committee, unless that Con- 
 vention take action upon this matter, and re- 
 move Willis A. Gorman from the committee. 
 I think we should make that a condition of 
 our farther acting with them, and therefore I 
 shall vote against the substitute. 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. I hope the substitute will 
 be voted down, as it appears to sanction a 
 gross and violent personal assault, without 
 any provocation whatever. A resolution 
 should be passed which requires the removal 
 of GoEMAN from that committee, and in- 
 structing our committee to agree, upon no 
 compromise until that is done. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I desire to say, in ex- 
 planation of some remarks made by the gen- 
 tleman from Dakota, (Mr. Fosteb,) what I 
 did not say at first, and what I should not 
 have said at all, if that gentleman had not 
 denied any knowledge of the plan I spoke of. 
 I stated, when I spoke before, that this reso- 
 lution was offered in accordance with a plan 
 that the two members of the cominittee of 
 Conference who were more particularly con- 
 nected with this matter should leave the com- 
 mittee, and that the other ^four, upon each 
 side, should go on with the business before 
 the committee. As the gentleman denies 
 any knowledge of such plan, I ask the priv- 
 ilege of stating that [amongst others, I con- 
 versed with that gentleman this morning, and 
 proposed the plan that has been offered to the 
 Convention ; that he opposed it and proposed 
 the plan which he has embodied in his sub- 
 stitute — that four members of the committee 
 upon each side should go on and finish up 
 the business before the committee. It is also 
 a part of the plan which has been followed 
 
 out from the very commencement of our pro- 
 ceedings for a compromise. When the thing 
 was first talked of, we must not say anything 
 about it, but wait a little while and see if 
 something new would not turn-up. Gentle- 
 men, enough has turned up ^already; and 
 among the things which are going to turn up 
 in the future, I hope it will not be that this 
 Convention will disgrace itself by holding 
 communion with that committee while Ex- 
 Governor Gorman is upon it. 
 
 I ask for the yeas and nays upon the sub- 
 stitute. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I move that there be 
 a call of the Convention. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, and the roll be- 
 ing called the following 'members failed to 
 answer to their names : 
 
 Messrs. Ayer, Coggswell, Davis, Folsom, 
 Kemp, Lyle, Lowe, Mantor, McCann, Mes- 
 SER, Perkins, Putnam, Sheldon, and Smith. 
 
 On motion of Mr. SECOMBE, all further 
 proceedings under the call were dispensed 
 with. 
 
 And then the Convention took a recess un- 
 til half-past two o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention met at half-past two 
 o'clock. 
 
 The PRESIDENT announced as the unfin- 
 ished business of the morning session, the re- 
 solution in reference to the assault on Mr. 
 Wilson, the immediate question being on the 
 substitute for the resolution, offered by Mr. 
 Foster. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. Not having the evi- 
 dence necessary to [enable us to vote intelli- 
 gently on that resolution, I move that the 
 preamble, resolution and substitute be laid on 
 the table. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE called for the yeas and 
 nays, but they were refu.sed. 
 
 The motion was then agreed to. 
 
 BEPOBTS PASSED. 
 
 On motion of Mr. MANTOR, report num- 
 ber three, on Public Property, was tjvkcn up, 
 read a third time and passed. 
 
 On motion of Mr. MANTOR, report num- 
 ber four, on Boundaries, was taken up, read 
 a third time and passed. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE moved that the Convention 
 adjouni. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thubsd ay, August 27. 
 
 659 
 
 Mr. NORTH remarked in opposition, and 
 by unanimous consent, that he had just been 
 informed that the Conference Committee were 
 perhaps nearly ready to report their agi'ec- 
 ment uport one Constitution, and he thought 
 it incumbent upon members to wait f8r their 
 report. 
 The motion however, prevailed, and. 
 The Convention adjourned until to-morrow 
 morning at nine o'clock. 
 
 FORTIETH DAY. 
 
 Thursday, August 27, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock a. m. 
 The journal of yesterday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
 PBIXTISG OF THE PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN submitted the following: 
 Resolved, That the President of this Convention" 
 be directed to contract for the purchase of two 
 thousand copies of the debates and proceedings of 
 this Convention, as taken by the oflScial reporter, 
 including the Organic Act of this Territory, the 
 Enabling Act of Congress, and the act of the Ter- 
 ritorial Legislature passed in pursuance thereof, 
 the Constitution and an abstract of the vote of the 
 people thereon, with a full and complete index ; 
 ^ the same to be furnished in good substantial bind- 
 ing, subject to the order of the President, on or 
 before the first day of January, 1858, at a price 
 not exceeding that allowed the Territorial Printer 
 by law, for executing work of like character, to be 
 paid as a part of the expenses of this Convention. 
 Besolved, That five copies of said Debates and 
 Proceedings be furnished to each of the members 
 and officers of this Convention and that the copies 
 remaining be deposited in the Library of the Ter- 
 ritory or future State. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN said : There is now some 
 prospect that we shall agree upon one Con- 
 stitution, and that only one will be submitted 
 to the people. In that event I presume that 
 the expenses of this Convention in full will 
 be recognized and paid eventually by the gen- 
 eral government. It is very desh-able that 
 the reports of our debates and proceedings 
 should be published, and it appears to me 
 that it should be left in such a manner as to 
 allow the President of this Convention or 
 some other person, and I think the Presdest 
 is as suitable person as any one — to contract 
 for -the printing of these reports to the best 
 advantage. It is not known, in fact, whether 
 
 the printing can be done in St. Paul. I pro- 
 pose to leave it so that the printing may be 
 done in the best possible manner, without 
 specifying how it shall be done. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The resolution will lay 
 over imder the rule one day. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move to suspend the 
 rules so as to allow the resolution to be con- 
 sidered now. 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I am inclined to think 
 that the resolution had better lie over for the 
 reason that the committee of Conference may 
 agree upon some mode in which these debates 
 and proceedings may be published. 
 
 The question was taken, and the rules 
 were suspended, (two-thirds voting in favor 
 thereof.) 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I will modify my reso- 
 lution by substituting the word " authorized " 
 for "directed" in the second line. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I am in favor of the 
 resolution, but would prefer that the remain- 
 ing copies should be deposited with the Reg- 
 ister of Deeds in the several counties in pro- 
 portion to their representation in the House 
 of Representatives. They would thereby 
 become more generally distributed in the Ter- 
 ritory. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I see serious objections 
 to such a course. These debates are to be 
 printed, not only for us, but for the benefit of 
 future generations, and if they should be de- 
 posited in the several counties now organized, 
 counties hereafter formed will not be provided 
 for. I think they should be deposited In the 
 State Department, that the Legislature should 
 provide by law for their distribution, and for 
 the sale of the remaining copies. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. I would suggest another 
 amendment to the resolution. Instead of two 
 thousand, I would have three thousand copies 
 published, and I would give eight copies to 
 each member instead of five. It is well 
 known that the edition of the Revised Statutes 
 published, was not large enough to supply the 
 wants of the people. There are none now on 
 hand, even for the officers of the Territory. It 
 is also well known that the members of this 
 Convention will have to supply a number of 
 individuals with copies of these reports, and 
 five copies are not enough to answer their 
 purposes. At any rate, eight copies will go 
 farther. 
 
560 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thubsday, August 27. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. Five copies will be as 
 many as my modesty will allow me to ask. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. I do not ask them for 
 myself. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I have no objection to 
 increasing the number of copies, if it is de- 
 sirable. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I think that the future 
 generations, which the gentleman talks about, 
 will read sufficient of our 'debates in two 
 thousand volumes, and I think new counties 
 will find no difficulty in obtaining sufficient 
 knowledge of the proceedings of this Conven- 
 tion. I am in favor of having two thousand 
 copies published, and of giving to each mem- 
 ber one or five copies, just as the Convention 
 thinks best. I am not willing to spend too 
 much money in publishing the reports of this 
 Convention, but I am not opposed to spend- 
 ing a reasonable sum. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I think we ought to have 
 a large number of volumes of our debates 
 published, especially if the committee of Con- 
 ference succeed in agreeing upon one Consti- 
 tution. Four-fifths of that Constitution, I 
 understand, will consist of the Constitution 
 framed in the other chamber. That being 
 the case the debates in this Hall will be so 
 instructive to future generations, and throw 
 such a flood of illumination upon the Consti- 
 tution that they ought to be printed. It seems 
 to me that ten, fifteen, or twenty thousand 
 copies will be an insufficient ntimber. And I 
 hope gentlemen will not be so modest as to 
 restrict themselves to five or even eight cop- 
 ies. Each member here will have three times 
 that number of grand children, among whom 
 he will want to distribute these debates. 
 [Laughter.] 
 
 Mr. MORGAN. I am inclined to diminish 
 rather than to increase the number, because 
 if the committee of Conference agree upon a 
 Constitution, our debates will have but little 
 reference to the articles actually in the Con- 
 stitution. The chief object in publishing 
 debates and proceedings is to learn from 
 them the reasons for the ditterent articles of 
 the Constitution — the reasons and arguments 
 adduced by members of the Convention in 
 favor of, or against this or that particular pro- 
 vision. We may find some very good reason- 
 ing in our debates, but it will have no appli- 
 
 cation to the provisions of the Constitution 
 which we shall actually have. For that rea- 
 son I think that the smallest number we can 
 get along with will be best. 
 
 Mr. PUDSON. I think it important to 
 have as many copies of our debates published 
 as modesty will allow us to ask for, for if we 
 do not, future generations will not mistrust 
 that the body which made the Constitution 
 which we shall probably adopt, was a Repub- 
 lican body. I think that we oug'ht to have 
 published reports to show that there was a 
 Republican body here. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. I move that the resolution 
 be laid upon the the table. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS moved that the Convention 
 take a recess until half-past two o'clock, which 
 motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS moved that the Convention 
 adjourn, which motion was lost. 
 
 PERSONAL EXPLANATION. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Mr. President; I wish, 
 sir, the indulgence of this Convention while I 
 make a few remarks that wDl be brief, this 
 morning ; and at some future time before the 
 Convention shall adjourn finally, I may, per- 
 haps, desire to be heard more at length on 
 the subject. It is a subject that probably 
 concerns myself much more than this Conven- 
 tion, or any member thereof, besides myself. 
 I refer to the difficulty between Ex-Governor 
 Gorman, of the other wing of the Capitol, and 
 myself, which took place in the conmiittee 
 room. 
 
 As the Convention well know, I had the 
 honor to be appointed to serve as one of the 
 committee of Conference, to meet a like com- 
 mittee from the west wing of the Capitol, 
 which committee was appointed, if possible, 
 to consider and arrange matters of difference 
 between the two Conventions, so that one 
 Constitution should be submitted to the 
 people. I can say, sir, for one, that as a mem 
 ber of the committee appointed on the part of 
 this Convention, I felt that the business com- 
 mitted to us was all important to the best 
 interests of the Territory ; and I can say that 
 my colleagues, the members of the committee 
 on our part, each and every one of them, 
 worked assiduously to bring about the object 
 of their appointment. I think I shall be sus- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— TntiBSDAV, August 57. 
 
 561 
 
 tained, when I say here that I, as one of that 
 committee, worked all the time for that end, 
 and that only. 
 
 On the twenty-fifth instant tlie occurrence 
 took place, which has prevented my being in 
 that committee room since. It was a personal 
 assault on me by Ex-Governor Gormax. The 
 facts in the case I wish to state now ; and 1 
 shall state them as they exist, and not to cor- 
 respond with the distorted shape in which 
 they have appeared under the hand of some- 
 body on the opposite side. 
 
 I see, sir, in the Pioneer ami Democrat, of 
 yesterday morning, a statement purporting to 
 be facts in this case, but which are real false- 
 hoods, which I have no doubt were indited 
 by Ex-Governor Gorman himself, for no one 
 else could hardly have used such license of 
 language. This paper says : 
 
 " Mr. WiLSOK, throughout the sessions of the 
 committee, has exhibited the most ultra partisan 
 spirit, and manifested a disposition, by the use of 
 ungentlemanly language, and ascribing motives 
 to members of an almost criminal character, to 
 provoke a personal collision. Yesterday, in a dis- 
 cussion with Judge Sherburxe, he made use of 
 language very insulting in its character. Up«n 
 an explanation being demanded, he withdrew the 
 language so far as the Judge was concerned, but 
 stated that it remained applicable to other Demo- 
 cratic members of the joint commfttee. Mr. 
 KDfGSBCET demanded the withdrawal of the lan- 
 guage as applicable to him ; the demand was con- 
 ceded." 
 
 Now, sir, there were two points before the 
 committee upon which I was more sti'enuous 
 than any other member of the committee, and 
 but two points. One of these points was 
 with reference to our judicial system ; and I 
 believe few will censure the position I took ; 
 for the very point of difference which was 
 made against me in the committee has been 
 since changed, as I am credibly informed, to 
 my views by the Democrats themselves. 
 Their own Convention having taken up these 
 points of mine and adopted them of their 
 own accord, the public can judge from this 
 fact whether I was right or WTOng. 
 
 The other point was to the districting of the 
 State for Congressmen. The position which 
 I took here, I insisted upon strenuously. 
 But I never heard any person take exception 
 the language I used in m^ng my views. I 
 was in earnest, certainly — nothing more ; and 
 when any one will say I was insulting, they 
 71 
 
 willfully falsifv'. It is well known that our 
 State reaches from the British Possessions on 
 the North, to tlie Iowa line. It is well known 
 that the northern part of the State has inte- 
 rests diverse from the southern part. It is 
 also well known that, in these two divisions 
 of the State we are divided in feeling as well 
 as interest ; and that, therefore, each portion 
 of the State would prefer to choose its own 
 Congressmen ; and that the people of these 
 divisions of the State would be most likely 
 to be pleased with such an apportionment. I 
 insisted upon this course very earnestly, as 
 my colleagues know. But I was voted down 
 in the committee ; and then I gave it up, and 
 had nothing further to say. 
 
 These two are the only points upon which 
 I insisted, that our committee did not go with 
 tte as far as I went. If censure fell upon 
 any^other measure adopted, it must rest with 
 them as well as with me. Every man on our 
 part acted openly and ingenuously, upon every 
 question. I dare any Democrat to open the 
 record of that committee, and show that we 
 have not, from first to last, each one of us, 
 acted the open and manly part. Our com- 
 mittee, sir, have done their duty. We insis- 
 ted that they should lay down every feeling 
 and prejudice as members of a party, and 
 act for the common good ; and no one can 
 show anything from our proceedings like a 
 departure from that rule on our part. 
 
 The committee had found out, before the 
 day this encounter took place, that we could 
 not agree upon one Constitution, and they 
 were working with a view to the submission 
 of two Constitutions on the same day, in such 
 a manner that the electoral oflBcers might not 
 come into conflict. There was a proposition 
 mkde by a member of the Democratic side, 
 and insisted on by Ex-Governor Gorman, that 
 there should be three different ballots and 
 no more. So that by one you might vote for 
 the Republican Constitution, by the second 
 you might vote for the Democratic Constitu- 
 tion, and by the third you might vote against 
 both Constitutions. These were the only 
 three ballots or classes of ballots to be allowed 
 by the proposition. It was further stated m 
 the same resolution, that every vote cast for 
 the Democratic Constitution should be con- 
 sidered and counted as cast against the Re- 
 publican Constitution, and that every vote 
 
562 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATE^— Thursday, August 27. 
 
 cast for the Rcpublician Constitution should 
 be considered and counted as cast against the 
 Democratic Constitution. This imposition 
 was objected to — I believe by myself— at 
 any rate by some member of our committee, 
 that that mode of counting the votes was one 
 which would, almost to a certainty result in 
 the defeat of both Constitutions, from the 
 fact, that the number of votes cast against 
 both Constitutions, together with the number 
 of votes cast for any one, would to a moral 
 certainty be far gi-eater than the number of 
 votes cast in favor of either Constitution — 
 thereby making almost certain that both 
 would be rejected. This objection was too 
 apparent to be resisted. It was too apparent 
 to be supported by even Governor Gorman, 
 though I doubt not he approved of it tacitly, 
 for he does many things which do not frass 
 for his in the pubUc journals— and in keeping 
 with his course ; for it has been most evident 
 throughout, that his sole object was to break 
 up the conference without agreeing oif one 
 Constitution, and set us out before the world 
 Avith two Constitutions in this stormy man- 
 ner. Ex-Governor Gorman knows that when 
 the means of excitement fail him, he dies po- 
 litically. He knows that every honest, think- 
 ing man, of each party despises him as he 
 does the devil ; and that his only strength 
 consists in keeping up a public turmoil, and 
 keeping away from the people any special 
 knowledge of his individual merit. 
 
 It was then proposed by Ex-Uovernor Gor- 
 man that every vote cast in favor of either 
 Constitution should be considered as a vote 
 cast in favor of a State government ; and this 
 was seconded by one of their committtee. 
 When this was insisted upon, I remarked that 
 I thought that was worse still ; for by it, it 
 seemed we were to come into the Union with 
 a State government organized under a Con- 
 stitution which had received the approval of 
 but a mmority of the voters of the State. 
 It was an inconsistent, self-contradictory pro- 
 position, and we could have no right to author- 
 ize any such thing. The general government 
 would take no notice of a Constitution that 
 had received only the votes of a minority. 
 But the Ex-Govemor ever pretending to be 
 thoroughly versed in Pariiamentary usages, 
 called for the previous question in the com- 
 mittee. 
 
 Judge Sherburne coming into the room a 
 few minutes afterward, I stated to him, that 
 my position was this : that every voter should 
 be permitted to vote, singly, for or against the 
 Republican Constitution, and for or against 
 the Democratic Constitution ; and that by no 
 possible construction should any vote be con- 
 sidered and taken to mean what the voter 
 never intended it should mean. I made a 
 few other remarks which I do not now re- 
 collect. We then adjourned till after dinner. 
 
 As to the lie alleged by the Ex-Governor 
 to have been given to himself in the forenoon 
 — I would certainly remember the fact had I 
 made such remark, and 1 here unhesitatingly 
 say there was no such thing said, imputed or 
 thought by me. Nothing of the kind. I 
 do not believe his own friends will support his 
 allegation. I feel assured that every man of 
 our committee (though I have not spoken to 
 one of them on the subject,) will bear me out 
 in this statement so far as they know, and it 
 must have been said in their presence if at 
 all. But such statements may be expected 
 from a man who has been considered and 
 Wanded by his own party leaders in this citj', 
 as a liar — a man whom, if the statements of 
 his own party be true, infamy itself could 
 not but tiatter. 
 
 But to the point. When our committee 
 met again in the afternoon, the Ex-Governor 
 fell back on his dignity, and declared that his 
 party had done everything that they could do, 
 that they had originated everything and we 
 had merely torn down. Now he considered 
 their personal dignity required, that they 
 should make no more propositions. Mr. 
 Kingsbury had made a proposition that morn- 
 ing, and he appealed to him, but Mr. Kings- 
 bury said he would re-offer his proposi- 
 tion. He made the same appeal to others of 
 his side, that any further proposition must 
 come from our side. At this time, one or 
 two of the committee asked me to propose a 
 plan. I remarked, that I had proposed a 
 plan in the morning which, I thought the only 
 true and correct one. 
 
 Judge Sherburne remarked to me, using 
 this language: "I think, Mr. Wilson, you 
 " are drawing too refined a distinction, and 
 "your proposition, if carried out, would be 
 "ridiculous;" and went on to state his objec- 
 tion in a very candid manner, taking occasion 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, August 2?, 
 
 563 
 
 also to compliment my opinins, and say he 
 meant no disrespect in saying my proposi- 
 tion was ridiculous. I remarked then in re- 
 ply : "If you really think so, I have so much 
 " confidence in your judgment and candor, I 
 " shall doubt my position ;" and went on to 
 explain. I stated plainly and frankly what 
 I thought I saw would be the result to follow 
 the course proposed. I was not going to dis- 
 guise it ; it would deprive the Republicans of 
 a large vote. The Democratic Constitution 
 says that a certain subject should not be sub- 
 mitted to the people with this Constitution, 
 for their approval or rejection ; nor should 
 the Legislature have the power of submitting 
 it to the people at any future tune. 
 
 Now, does not every man in this committee 
 know, that one-third of the Republican part}"- 
 would imder no circumstances vote for such 
 a Constitution ? And I stated there that I 
 was one who never would consent that the 
 people should be gagged on any subject. 
 " Do not }'ou. Judge Sherbubse, see, that it 
 " will cause at least a third of the Republi- 
 " can party to refuse to vote for their own 
 " Constitution, from the fact that here is such 
 " a proposition that if the Democratic Consti- 
 " tution receives more votes than the Repub- 
 " lican Constitution, the votes for the Repub- 
 " lican Constitution must be turned in and 
 " counted in favor of a State government un- 
 " der the so-called Democratic Constitution ? 
 " In effect, it tells the Republicans, that their 
 " votes shall be counted first in favor of their 
 " own Constitution, and secondly in favor of 
 " the Democratic Constitution." Such was 
 my language in substance. I told them that 
 our party would not consent to any such 
 tiling ; that it was not fair to ask it ; and that 
 there was no use to talk about it further. 
 Judge Shebbukxe remarked, " I was not in 
 " when the proposition was made, and I cer- 
 " tainly misapprehended your remarks." He 
 had said, as I stated before, that my proposi- 
 tion, if carried out, was certainly ridiculous. 
 Ex-Governor Goemax, with whom I had dis- 
 cussed the matter fully, in the morning, rose 
 up from a reclining posture and said, " If you 
 ' ' misapprehended. Judge, there are a num- 
 " ber in your crowd" — or words to that effect. 
 I knew he understood me, and wished to put 
 false construction upon it, by an insulting in- 
 uendo, that I had wilfully changed the pro- 
 
 position, or that the proposition was simply 
 ridiculous. I replied, " There are some gen- 
 "tlemen that I wish would always misunder- 
 " stand me ; I prefer to chose my own com- 
 " pardons." Those, I think, are the verj- 
 words I used. As to Judge Sherbckne feel- 
 ing insulted and demanding an explanation, 
 it is a flat lie, got up by those who retail it, 
 whoever they may be — an unmitigated lie. 
 Judge Shebburxe, I am confident, will state 
 that fact, if called upon. To him I appeal in 
 confidence ; and what man, pretending to be 
 a man, would state, thfough the public jour- 
 nal, what his own political friends must know 
 to be false. How much of a man is he ? I 
 made the remark I above stated, and Gover- 
 nor Gorman rose up and asked me if I 
 meant him, by that remark. I told him, 
 " Certainly." I spoke it out flatly, with no 
 reserve. I was sitting behind a round table, 
 in the comer of the room. I had been sitting 
 a few minutes before with my feet upon the 
 table, and whether I was in that position at 
 the moment, I do not certainly know. Those 
 present say I was, and my recollection is 
 that I was. He took his cane — every man 
 knows it was a heavy cane — and struck me 
 over the head before I could place myself in 
 a position to defend myself I was then in a 
 position in which I could not defend myself 
 in any possible way — I was struck to the 
 floor, and as I rose and saw this man — the 
 most consummate and the basest coward I 
 ever saw in my life — diagonally across the 
 room. I picked up a fragment of his cane, 
 and finding it no use for my purpose, I seized 
 my own, when I saw him drinking away 
 into the corner of the room, arid crying, 
 " don't let him strike me with that cane." 
 He immediately left the room. Where he 
 went I do not know — my friends could not 
 ascertain — and, as I imderstand, continued in 
 some place around the Capitol until nearly 
 dark, and then, with two men in his buggy to 
 guard him, went home. 
 
 Now, I state the fiicts, without coloring 
 and without any exaggerated particulars, as 
 members of that committee must know. The 
 insult first came from Ex-Governor Gorman 
 — more insulting because in ambiguous phrase. 
 As to those statements I made there, as be- 
 ing insulting to Governor Gorman. I under- 
 stand he said he would do the same thing 
 
564 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Thursday, August 27. 
 
 again, upon a repetition of them. I repeat 
 them here ; I repeat them to the fullest ex- 
 tent, and I say, when I repeat and reiterate 
 them, that, though almost a non-resistant in 
 practice — though I am not a quarrelsome 
 man, though not a brave or a strong man, I 
 hold myself personally responsible for every 
 word I utter. Now that cowardly, miserable 
 poltroon may take that up, but I prophecy 
 he will not, unless he can get me in some po- 
 .sition where I cannot defend myself, or unless 
 there are half a dozen men to guard him from 
 being struck " with that cane." 
 
 But this morning appears another state- 
 ment in the papers. It is ridiculous to make 
 .such a statement, as every man who knows 
 anything about it, knows to be utterly false. 
 What he can mean, I hardly know. But 
 perhaps I can surmise. That man is not 
 known so well abroad, as he is h^re. He 
 does not make those statements to be used in 
 St. Paul, for he is known here. Every raan^ 
 knows what his reputation iS in the city of 
 St. Paul. His statements will have no effect 
 here, one way or the other. He does not 
 make them for this latitude. He makes them 
 for the districts where the facts cannot go, 
 and where he thinks his paper will be circu- 
 lated. What does he say ? 
 
 "They were promptly separated, and while two 
 persons were holding Mr. Gorman, Mr Wilson 
 seized a large lead-headed cane and approached 
 Mr. Gorman, when Mr. Gorman said — " 
 
 Now as to that, we were standing opposite 
 to each other across the room. There were 
 a number of men close around me to prevent 
 me from crossmg to him, and he upon the 
 other side of the room, evidently very much 
 alarmed for his safety, no person holding hit a 
 or having a hand upon him. For all that 
 matter, all that was necessary was to hold 
 him from jumping out of the window. But I 
 read further from the speech : 
 
 " When Gorman said, 'don't hold me until he 
 ' strikes me with that cane. If he does, I will 
 ' make a more summary defence than I have.' " 
 
 I submit here Mr. President, that tliis 
 thing is simply ridiculous if intended for home 
 consumption. But it was not intended for 
 home consumption, but to be sent abroad. — 
 1 venture the assertion here that there is not 
 A member of that committee that will not, if 
 you ran get them to speak at all in reference 
 
 to that transaction, unequivocally declare that 
 that declaration is false. I said he cried, and 
 cried out with pathos and feeling, " don't let 
 him strike me with that cane" — not a word 
 more, not a word less, and the recollection of 
 the members of that committee agree vi-ith 
 my own. It is false, sir; and for all the 
 statements I make here, I am responsible — 
 for every one of them. It is false, sir. 
 
 Thus ended the matter. Now as to the 
 object for which that committee was appoint- 
 ed. I have not a particle of doubt, and not a 
 member of this body, and, so far as I know, 
 but very few in the other wing of the Capitol 
 — certainly not many among the candid and 
 honorable men of that body — have expressed 
 a doubt but that the secret object of that gen- 
 tleman has been, all through, to prevent any 
 sort of an arrangement being made between 
 the two Conventions. As I said before, he 
 lives in a storm. He lives where the atten- 
 tion of the community is distracted and drawn 
 from the man, to other circumstances. He 
 knows that he can do nothing when men look 
 calmly at the man who wishes to be sent to 
 the United States Senate. That is under- 
 stood by him. 
 
 Now as to the action of that committee. 
 When that committee took their seats in the 
 committee room to endeavor to arrange this 
 matter, and to agree upon one Constitution to 
 be submitted to the people, as the resolution 
 under which we were appointed, declared it 
 our duty to do, the very first word said 
 was by W. A. Gorman. He said: — " Gentle- 
 " men : I know one thing ; there is no use in 
 " trying to agree upon one Constitution ; we 
 " can never do it," or words to that import. — 
 That man goes out then into the other wing 
 of this capitol and makes a long speech, show- 
 ing that he was in favor of agreeing upon one 
 Constitution. I say that the first words said 
 in that committee room was that very declar- 
 ation of Willis A. Gorman. Our committee 
 said they came there for that purpose, and 
 nothing else. His own committee declared 
 that they came there to try to accomplish 
 that end. Upon that, seeing he was not sus- 
 tained by his own committee, he sits down 
 and says "Gentlemen, I have some knotty 
 points I want to present." And what is the 
 first resolution, or about the first resolution 
 he presents? That the Constitution agreed 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, August 28. 
 
 565 
 
 upon by the joint committee, shall be signed 
 by the Hon. H. H. Sibli;v, as President^ and 
 by all the admitted members save some in 
 our own body whom they declare are not le- 
 gally elected. Who believes that a man, who 
 could offer such an insulting resolution — a 
 resolution which everj-body sees, strikes at 
 the very root of the compromise — can be other- 
 wise than opposed to a compromise ? 
 
 And when it was declared by the commit- 
 tee that they did not want to listen to any 
 such thing, he goes to work to get up some 
 other knotty point, as he caUs it. I have not 
 a particle of doubt, that if he had not been 
 in the Convention, there never would have 
 been a split in the Constitutional Convention. 
 Does anybody believe otherwise ? [" No- 
 body, nobody."] I know, too, that in the 
 other wing of the Capitol, a similar view is en- 
 tertained among their best men, and if there 
 had been an honest man appointed instead of 
 Gov. GoBJiAX, on our joint committee, who 
 meant what he said, I have no doubt that 
 one Constitution would have been agreed 
 upon long ago, and I have no doubt that if he 
 keeps away, that committee will yet agree 
 upon one Constitution. He has been the 
 bane of everything. 
 
 I speak what every man who belongs to 
 the Convention knows, and for it I am res- 
 ponsible. I mean what I say. I say it not 
 in passion. I say what circumstances and 
 positive knowledge will bear me out in. 
 
 Thus went the matter. I need not make 
 any buncombe speech in this Convention, to 
 satisfy my colleagues here around me. I need 
 not take the course that gentlemen took. I 
 know the feeling of every gentleman in this 
 Hall. I know what they think of my course. 
 I say nothing in regard to that. I only speak 
 of those base falsehoods which have gone out 
 through the paper. I shall probably at some 
 future time take up this subject and analyze 
 it further, but at present I need say no more. 
 
 REPORTS PASSED. 
 
 On motion of Mr. KING, Report number 
 ten on Educational Interests was taken up, 
 read a third time and passed. 
 
 The Convention then took a recess until 
 half-past two. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention assembled pursuant to ad- 
 journment. 
 
 EXPENSES OF THE COJTS'ENTIOX. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN offered the following reso- 
 lution which was adopted : 
 
 " Eesolved, That the committee on Supplies and 
 Expenditures be required to report to the Conven 
 tion all bills and demands against the Convention ; 
 and that all persons having demands against the 
 Convention be required to present the same to 
 said Convention." 
 
 Mr. MANTOR submitted the following res- 
 olution, which was adopted : 
 
 " Resolved, That the Secretary of this Conven- 
 tion be allowed an extra compensation of five hun- 
 dred dollars for all services which he may be re- 
 quired to perform by this Convention, after the 
 adjournment ; and that said sum be paid out of the 
 funds appropriated to defray the expenses of this 
 Convention." 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. MURPHY, the 
 Convention adjourned. 
 
 FORTY-FIRST DAY. 
 
 Friday, August 28th, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock A. M, 
 Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. E. D. Neill. 
 The journal of yesterday was read and 
 approved. 
 
 REPORT OF the COMiflTTEE OF COXFEREXCE. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH, from the Conference 
 Committee, submitted the following paper for 
 the first report from the joint committee : 
 
 "The committee of Conference, appointed by 
 the two Conventions, to agree upon a single Con- 
 stitution, to be submitted to the people, respectfully 
 submit the report which is annexed. The com- 
 mittee also further report, that, in their opinion, 
 they will be able to submit 8 final report at ten 
 o'clock, this day. 
 
 M. SHERBURNE, Chairman. 
 
 L. K. Staxkaed, Sec'j/. 
 
 JOSEPH R. BROWN. 
 W. HOLCOMBE, 
 W. W. KINGSBURY, 
 THOS. J. GALBRAITH, 
 CYRUS ALDRICH, 
 CHARLES McCLURE." 
 The report annexed, included the several 
 articles of the Constitution which appears in 
 the Appendix, with the exception of articles, 
 "Schedule" and '-'Miscellaneous Provisions," 
 which were subsequently reported by the 
 same committee and became a part of the 
 first report. 
 
 The report, as a whole, was read a first 
 and second time and referred to a committee 
 of the Whole. 
 
5G6 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION t)EBATES— Fbiday," August 28. 
 
 On motion of Mr. HAYDEN, the rule re- 
 quiring the report to be printed, was sus- 
 pended. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN moved that the Convention 
 resolve itself into a committee of the Whole 
 to take into consideration the report of the 
 committee of Conference. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I hope we shall not go 
 into the committee of the Whole upon that 
 report. We shall get along much faster by 
 considering it in Convention. If the gentle- 
 man will withdraw his motion I will move 
 that the rules be suspended, so far as to allow 
 us to consider tliis report in Convention. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I will withdraw my mo- 
 tion for that purpose. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I submit the motion to 
 suspend the rules for the purpose indicated. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, two-thirds voting 
 in favor thereof. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I move that the rule be 
 dispense^ with which requires the engross- 
 ment of this report. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. As the Convention 
 have dispensed with the consideration of the 
 report in the committee of the Whole, the 
 report is in the same condition as though it 
 had been considered in Committee of the 
 Whole, and been reported to the Convention. 
 The first question is upon the engrossment of 
 the report for a third reading. 
 
 The motion of Mr. Hayden was agreed to. 
 
 The question 'recurring on ordering tlie 
 report to be read a third time — 
 
 Mr. COLBURN moved that the report be 
 read and considered article by article. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I hope the motion 
 will not prevail, for I understand that a mo- 
 tion has been adopted that this report should 
 be considered as a whole in the Convention, 
 instead of in committee of the Whole. Be- 
 fore this report is put upon its final passage, 
 I presume I may have something to say in 
 regard to its merits as a whole. It will con- 
 sume considerable time to consider this report 
 section by section ; and not only that, but it 
 will be embarrassing. I understand that it 
 is before us as the report of the Conference 
 committee, and that if it is adopted, the 
 whole of it must l)e adopted, and that if it is 
 njected, the whole of it must be rejected. 
 For that I desire that it should be considered 
 as a wliole. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I think the best way 
 is to consider it as a \yhole — to read it article 
 by article, that members may have an oppor- 
 tunity to express their views upon it as we 
 proceed. We, as members of the committee 
 who made the report, may be compelled to 
 say something, but we do not desire to con- 
 sume the time of the Convention unless we 
 are called upon. We submit it as a whole 
 report. Let it be read as such, and whenever 
 we come to a point upon which any member 
 wishes to say anything, I am sure no one will 
 object to spending the time necessary to do 
 so. 
 
 Mr, McCLURE. We have submitted this 
 as one report. If it is amended in any man- 
 ner or form, that amendment knocks the 
 whole compromise in the head. There is no 
 necessity of reading it section by section, or 
 taking separate votes upon those sections, 
 because gentlemen can, without that, just as 
 well point out those difficulties which occur 
 to their minds. It will also afford less oppor- 
 tunity for speaking, and though I want to 
 hear my friend fi'om Steele county (Mr. 
 CoGGSWELL,) yet if he has any objection to 
 the report, I want to hear him object to it as 
 a whole. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. The only object of my 
 motion was to expedite business. I under- 
 stand that it is necessary that this Constitu- 
 tion shall be written out upon parchment 
 before it is signed. Now if we pass upon the 
 first article, it may be placed in the hands of 
 the person employed to engross it upon parch- 
 ment, while we are proceeding to the discus- 
 sion and consideration of other articles. But 
 if we discuss it as a whole that cannot be 
 done until we get through with it. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. Suppose you adopt all 
 except the very last article and reject that, 
 then the trouble and expense of writing out 
 all the former articles is thrown away. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. There may be some 
 things wliich this Convention might recjucst 
 the committee to change, and which the com- 
 mittee might change upon request, and to the 
 satifaction of both Conventions. We might 
 not insist uj)on such changes as are ultima- 
 tum, but tliey might be made by mutual 
 agreement. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. The joint committee 
 is not discharged, and if the Convention see 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES—Friday, August 28. 
 
 567 
 
 fit to request alteration to be made, the com- I 
 mittce upon the part of this body, will make 
 the change with pleasure. I would say, 
 however, that the committee have had a 
 labor to arrive at the result they have, and 
 every change will involve the necessity of 
 making every other article of the Constitution 
 conform with the one changed. There was 
 an alteration made in one article this morning, 
 and it required us to make changes in three 
 other articles. My idea is that we should 
 deal vrith this report as one entire thing. If 
 we amend one single clause, and the commit- 
 tee, or the other Convention disagi'ee to it, 
 and we hold out, we kill the whole report. 
 We must adopt it as a whole, or reject it as 
 a whole. 
 —Mr. COLBURN. I withdraw my motion. 
 
 The question again recurred on ordering 
 the report to be read a third time. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move that the rules 
 limiting debate to fifteen minutes be so far 
 suspended as to allow each member to speak 
 upon thLs question as long as he thinks 
 proper. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I hope the motion wiU 
 not prevail. We have, most of us, been here 
 six or seven weeks without having returned 
 to our homes or business, and although it 
 may be pleasant and agreeable to a man who 
 has been home with his famUy for a week or 
 fortnight, and being refi'eshed, has come back 
 for another campaign, to go into the details 
 of this matter again, and to make long 
 speeches; yet I apprehend that it will not 
 be a very agreeable thing to the majority of 
 this Convention, for I am confident that a 
 large part of this Convention are disposed to 
 leave for home this week. I, at least, pro- 
 pose to leave to night, and I certainly shall 
 if this motion prevails, and there is a prospect 
 of om" having inflicted upon us speeches run- 
 ning through one or two weeks. I think for 
 the sake of having the Constitution adopted, 
 and speedily adopted, we had better dispense 
 with hour speeches, and at any rate, limit them 
 to fifteen minutes. In that way we may be 
 able to go home soon and honorably, having ac- 
 complished the work we were sent here to do. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. So far as I am con- 
 cerned, I have no objections to the gentle- 
 man's going home, and staying at home just 
 as long as he sees fit and proper, just as I did. 
 
 But it does seem to me that we should have 
 some little time to canvass the merits of this 
 report, and that those who have necessarily 
 been absent at their homes for a few days, 
 should be allowed some little time in which to 
 express their views and sentiments in regard 
 to this matter. I understood, last night, that 
 that it was the intention of this Convention 
 to caiTy this report right through under the 
 operation of the previous question. Perhaps 
 that may be their intention, but I wish it dis- 
 tinctly understood, if it is the object of this 
 Convention to ram this report down the 
 throats of certain members of this Conven- 
 tion, who do not happen to agree to certain 
 details of it, they may possibly hear from 
 those gentleman before the thing is finally 
 ratified by the p?ople. So far as I am con- 
 cerned, I would like the privilege of express- 
 ing my views «nd sentiments in regard to it. 
 There are some portions of it I like very well, 
 and other portions of it I dislike very much. 
 
 In regard to accomplishing our work and 
 going home ^vith some little honor, I am in- 
 clined to think it is pretty late in the day to 
 talk about going home honorabl}' — rather 
 late in the day to talk of having achieved an 
 honorable work, and claiming from our con- 
 constituents any considerable degree of credit. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. No man in this Con- 
 vention would be more willing than myself to 
 allow every member to speak upon this 
 subject. We now have a rule that a member 
 can speak longer than fifteen minutes by the 
 consent of the Convention. Let the Conven- 
 tion grant its unanimous consent, when it is 
 asked for. I can say to the gentleman fi-om 
 Steele coimty, that the balance of this Con- 
 vention know very little more about this 
 report than he does, although he has been 
 absent. When tliis report is read, one gen- 
 tleman will know about as much of it as 
 another, because it was only fairly commenced 
 day before yesterday morning. The com- 
 mittee desire to gag no one. They have 
 made the report, and it is your province to 
 deal with it as it becomes you. We desire 
 not to dictate in the matter. Let this motion 
 be disposed of, and as chairman of the com- 
 mittee, I can state in five minutes the reasons 
 why we made the report, and then gentlemen 
 can make what comments they choose upon it. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. I should be glad to hear 
 
668 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, August 28. 
 
 gentlemen give their reasons for or against 
 this report, and I think my friend Coggsavell, 
 who is somewhat gifted with the power of 
 speech, can express his views in ^fifteen min- 
 utes, so that we shall know pretty conclu- 
 sively where he stands. I am, therefore, 
 opposed to the pending motion. 
 
 But I do not like to hear remarks traducing 
 the honor of this body. I do not know Avhat 
 the gentleman has done himself, but I believe 
 that a majority of this body feel that they 
 have done the best possible thing for their 
 ' constituents under the circumstances. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would move to amend 
 the motion of the gentleman from Steele 
 county, so as to provide that any member of 
 the Convention may have the privilege of 
 writing out his remarks in full and submitting 
 them to the reporter. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. It comes with iU-grace 
 from the gentleman who has just taken his 
 seat, after having occupied so much time of 
 the Convention as he has, to try to gag any 
 member of the Convention just at this time. 
 Now so far as I am concerned, I coincide 
 fully with my friend Coggswell. We have 
 been discussing this matter for almost seven 
 weeks. Our committee of Conference now 
 report an entire Constitution, differing in a 
 great many respects from the Constitution 
 we had formed, as a body, and, although all 
 are anxious to return to their homes, and none 
 more so than myself, I want to hear every 
 gentleman upon this floor make a speech, just 
 as long as he pleases, upon this subject. If 
 gentlemen who have made up their minds to 
 vote for this report, do not think proper to 
 say anything upon that side, let the speeches 
 come from the other side. I apprehend, 
 however, that few persons will want to make 
 speeches. Some members are more pecu- 
 liarly situated than others, and I hold that it 
 is the duty of every member to place himself 
 in that position before his constituents that he 
 can go home and meet them, conscious of 
 their approval. I want to hear my friend 
 CoGGSWEiJ.. I do not think ho will be tedious. 
 He is not in the habit of making long speeches, 
 but I am willing to listen just as long as he is 
 willing to speak upon this subject. I am 
 satisfied that there is something peculiar 
 about his constituents, and that he deems it 
 necessary, in order to place himself before 
 
 his constituents as he should be placed, to give 
 his views upon this subject. Other gentle- 
 men may be in the same predicament. I 
 hope by unanimous consent the Convention 
 will suspend the rules, and give each member 
 the privilege of being heard. It is the most 
 important matter that has come before us 
 since the commencement of our session. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS called for the yeas and 
 nays on the motion. 
 
 The yeas and nays were ordered. 
 
 The question was taken, and it was decided 
 in the negative, yeas twenty-three, nays 
 twenty-four, as follows . 
 
 Yeas — Messrs. Aldrich, Bolles, Cleghorn, Coggs- 
 well, Davis, Foster, Galbraith, Gerrish, Hanson, 
 Holley, King, Kemp, Lowe, Mantor, McCann, Mc- 
 Clure, Peckham, Bobbins, Stannard, Thompson, 
 Watson, Wilson and Mr. President. — 23. 
 
 Nays — Messrs. Anderson, Baldwin, Bates, Bar- 
 tholomew, Billings, Colburn, Coe, Cederstam, 
 Coombs, Duley, Dickerson, Hall, Hayden, Hard- 
 ing, Lyle, Messer, Morgan, Mills, Murphy, Phelps, 
 Peckam, Russell, Secombe and Vaughn. — 24. 
 
 So the Convention refused to suspend the 
 rules. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. The committee of 
 Conference of this body, as this Convention 
 is well aware, have been in session with the 
 committee from the body sitting in the other 
 chamber of the Capitol, for some considera- 
 ble length of time. It has been the object of 
 this committee, all the time, to arnve, it pos- 
 sible, to one conclusion — the adoption of one 
 Constitution — considering that object para- 
 mount to all others for which they were 
 created. For the accomplishment of that 
 object the committee has worked, and I am 
 satiflsed that every member of it has been, 
 and is now, convinced that the adoption of 
 one jConstitution is paramount to all other 
 questions, in order to avoid a prospective state 
 of anarchy. It is too late, now, to talk about 
 the past. The past is a matter of history. 
 It is a matter of record. If \vrong has been 
 committed, that is no reason why we should 
 not do right above all other things, now. Judg- 
 ing by the sentiment expressed by the people 
 of thi8 Territory, by strangers from abroad, 
 and by this Convention, what conclusion could 
 wn come to other than that to us the duty of 
 submitting one Constitution is paramount to 
 all other things ? This is the ground the com- 
 mittee took, and under Heaven, they will 
 stand or fall by the position they have taken. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbidat, ArocsT 28. 
 
 569 
 
 We come in and report to this Convention 
 one Constitution, and only one, and by that 
 Constitution this committee stand pledged 
 novf and forever. TVe took this ground, be- 
 lieving that the Convention would sustain our 
 action ; and we know, though we are neither 
 prophets, nor sons of prophets, that but one 
 voice will come up from the people on this 
 subject, which is and which will be this, the 
 making of one Constitution is a good act. 
 
 There are things in the Constitution we 
 have reported, which no member of our com- 
 mittee approves ; and there are also things in 
 the Constitution adopted by this Convention, 
 which a large minority, and perhaps majority 
 of the body do not approve. A just and 
 proper Constitution must express the aggre- 
 gate of the views of the people. It is impos- 
 sible for men of diverse views, meeting to 
 form a Constitution in such a state of affairs 
 as the present, to form a Constitution which 
 shall please everybody. There were ten 
 members of the joint committee, and no two 
 of them sitting down together, could think 
 alike on all subjects. For them to have come 
 together, then, it must have been by assimi- 
 lation, sacrifice, compromise. They have 
 done the best they could under the circum- 
 stances. We have now submitted our report 
 to the Convention. Take it and adopt it as a 
 whole, if you can ; or take the responsibility 
 of rejecting it. We could have rejected it as 
 members of the committee, because of objec- 
 tionable features to every man from this, as 
 well as from the other Hall. But the question 
 for all is : Is it not as good a Constitution 
 as we could get under the circumstances? 
 We do not come in here to dictate and say : 
 Gentlemen of the Convention adopt this Con- 
 stitution. We do no such thing; but we 
 submit it for your kind consideration, and if 
 anything better can be done than to adopt it, 
 under the circumstances, none will be better 
 pleased than every member of your committee. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I voted in favor of 
 suspending the rules. I could not do other-' 
 wise as a member of that committee. I am 
 not disposed to have the acts of that commit- 
 tee forced upon this Convention in any man- 
 ner, without due deliberation, although I am 
 as anxious as any member of this Conven- 
 tion that the report should be adopted as it 
 has been reported. But I am willing that 
 72 
 
 gentlemen should speak upon the subject as 
 they desire, and cut into the report though 
 the chips might fly into my own fiice. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. As a member of the 
 committee, I felt it my duty to vote for sus- 
 pending the rules. Like the gentleman who 
 last spoke, I am in &vor of giving every 
 gentleman an opportunity of expressing his 
 views upon the report of the committee. 
 There are provisions in the Constitution 
 which we have reported, that I do not ap- 
 prove ol^ and could I have had my own way, 
 they would not have been there. Some of 
 them I opposed to the utmost of my ability, 
 though other gentlemen took a different view 
 from what I did. They were gentlemen, 
 however, whose opinion I am bound to re- 
 spect, and whose judgments are as Ukely to be 
 correct, as my own. Acknowledging, however, 
 the right of the majority of the committee to 
 govern, I acquiesced in the action of the 
 committee. It now remains for the Conven- 
 tion to approve or reject the recommendation 
 of the committee. But I must say that I 
 think if we do reject it, we will be assuming 
 a responsibility larger than I am willing to 
 assume. Gentlemen must recollect that the 
 report of the committee is the result of com- 
 promise and concession, and concessions made 
 upon both sides. I hope, however, gentle- 
 men will have the opportunity of expressing 
 themselves fully, whether they are in favor of, 
 or opposed to the report, and whether they 
 condemn the action of the [committee, or 
 approve of it. If the question is again taken 
 on suspending the rules, I hope every gentle- 
 man will vote for it, though I am as anxious 
 to complete our labors as any man upon this 
 floor. 
 
 Mr. MURPHY. I move to reconsider the 
 vote by which the Convention refused to sus- 
 pend the rules. 
 
 The motion to reconsider was agreed to, 
 and then the rules were suspended (two 
 thirds voting in favor ^thereof ) 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I desire to make a 
 few remarks upon this matter, but I am not 
 exactly prepared to make them until after 
 dinner. I have some papers of reference 
 which I find are not here. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I would inquire if it will 
 be in order, as each member is called upon to 
 vote upon the final passage, to express his 
 
570 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Feiday, August 28. 
 
 % views, giving his reasons for voting one way 
 or the other. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. That will occupy too much 
 time in calling the roll. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. Common usage per- 
 mits individuals, when their names are called, 
 to make a simple explanation ; that however 
 would not allow them to make long speeches. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I prefer, before this report 
 is brought to a third reading, that it should 
 be printed and laid upon the desks of every 
 member. I am aware however, that this is a 
 very unpalatable idea. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair would in- 
 form the gentleman that during his absence a 
 motion was made and adopted to dispense 
 with the engrossment and printing of the 
 report. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. I hope we shall go on 
 and dispose of this matter now and not post- 
 pone its consideration until afternoon. During 
 the session of our committee, members were 
 urging us to work all the time, and now that 
 we have done our part, I hope the Convention 
 will do its part. 
 
 Mr. KING. I move that the Convention 
 take a recess until half past two o'clock. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I hope not. If we have 
 anything to do I hope the Convention will go 
 on and do it, and if we have nothing to do, 
 that we shall adjourn without day. We have 
 spent several days in doing nothing, and it is 
 time we were doing something. 
 
 Mr. RO'BBINS. I hope it will be carried. 
 The most important question of the whole 
 session is now before us, and I think we ought 
 to take some action outside of this body be- 
 fore we take the report into consideration here. 
 At any rate I think we should have a few 
 moments to reflect upon it before we are 
 called upon to vote. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. This is an important 
 question, and if it be so, should we not dis- 
 cuss the subject at once ? Why lose two 
 hours on the last day of the session in idle- 
 ness when this subject is legitimately before 
 us. I voted against a su.spension of the rules, 
 believing that the courtesy of the Convention 
 would extend the time of speaking to any 
 gentleman, upon request. I hope we shall 
 proceed at bncc. 
 
 The Convention refused to take a recess. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL, As I have had but 
 
 very little time to consider this report, and 
 to examine it in detail, I presume I am not as 
 well piepared to express my views upon it as 
 I should be, provided, I had had a longer time. 
 But from the hurried reading I have given it, 
 I am prepared to say that I shall vote against 
 it, and as I seem to stand almost entirely 
 alone in my.position on this matter, judging 
 from present appearances, I desire to state 
 some of the reasons why I shall vote against 
 it. 
 
 The chairman of this committee of Confer- 
 ence has told us that the great and para- 
 mount question now before this Convention, 
 is the submission to the people of one Con- 
 stitution, that the committee are unanimous 
 in their expression of preference for this re- 
 port, and that by it they are determined to 
 stand or fall. Now, Mr. President, there is 
 no man who would be more in favor of unit- 
 ing and agi'eeing upon one Constitution, than 
 I would, provided, we could secure our rights 
 — rights which we claimed when we first came 
 into St. Paul; rights which wc claimed when 
 we organized this Convention ; rights which 
 we heralded all over the world as being rights 
 which belonged peculiarly and exclusively to 
 the majority. But I am satisfied that this 
 report does not secure to us our rights, and 
 for that reason I shall vote against it. Sir, 
 we are told by the chairman of the committee 
 that what has been done has become a mat- 
 ter of history, that we ought not to look back 
 to see what has taken place, but that we 
 should look ahead to the future prosperity 
 and happiness of the people of this Territory. 
 Sir, I am one of those individuals that love, 
 upon certain occasions, to look back and see 
 what kind of a track I have made. I am one 
 of those individuals who believe there is such 
 a word as " consistency" in the English lan- 
 guage, and that upon certain occa.sions it is 
 our duty to look back and see what positions 
 we have previously occupied, what sentiments 
 we have previously heralded to the world, 
 and what doctrines we have previously preach- 
 ed. 
 
 Now sir, we came here claiming that we 
 had a majority of this Convention. Did we 
 not? When wo came here wo said that, 
 being a majority, we had the right to rule and 
 control this Convention. Did we not? Did 
 wo not say|that wo had fifty-eight ^members 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Pbidat, August 28. 
 
 571 
 
 who held credentials lair upon their face, and 
 that fifty-eight was a majority of one hundred 
 and eight ? Of course we did. And did we 
 not come into this building at twelve or one 
 o'clock at night, for the purpose of preserving, 
 protecting and defending those rights which 
 were vested in us by virtue of our having a 
 majority ? Of course we did. And, sir, 
 when the minority came into this Hall in a 
 body and left us so unceremoneously, and un- 
 parliamentary and set up a bastard Conven- 
 tion upon their own hook, did we not say that 
 we had a majority of the legally elected mem- 
 bers of the Convention — that we had fifty- 
 eight members who had credentials fair upon 
 their face, that we had another member from 
 the eleventh council district (Mr. Sheldon) 
 who had received a majority of the votes of 
 his particular district, but for the reason that 
 some of the local officers acted injudiciously 
 and erroneously, that those votes were not 
 canvassed ; and did we not say that he was 
 entitled to his seat because he had received a 
 majority of the votes of his distiict? Cer- 
 tainly, we did. And, sir, when our Demo- 
 cratic friends left us and went into the other 
 Hall to organize a bastard Convention, did 
 not we set up a howl which has gone all over 
 the land? That howl was that^we were a 
 majority and they a minority ; that we were 
 the representatives of the people of the Ter- 
 ritory, that they were the border ruffians, that 
 they were men seeking to trample upon the 
 rights of the people of this Territory, while we 
 were seeking for nothing but what was right, 
 and fair, and honorable among men. Did not 
 we say that ? Of course we did. 
 
 "Well, sir, after having taken that position, 
 after having said that we would go on and 
 frame a Constitution for the reason that we 
 were a majority and had the legal right so to 
 do, and that we would submit that Constitu- 
 tion to the people, and that we would be sus- 
 tained by the people, what do we propose 
 now to do ? We were unanimous in the po- 
 sitions we took at that time. "We said we 
 had been treated like dogs; we said that 
 those who left us had no right to leave us, 
 and had no right to set Up and organize a 
 Convention of their own, and that for that 
 reason we would not respect them, or recog- 
 nise them at aU. Such was the position we 
 took at that time, and at that time nothing at 
 
 aU was said about all this ruin, and anarchy, 
 and desolation, which is to spread over the 
 Territory. Not one individual member of 
 those who are now so exceedingly anxious for 
 this compromise, even dreamed of this anar- 
 chy and confusion which they now talk about 
 so much as about to sweep over the Territo- 
 ry, destroy our real and personal property, 
 and prevent the influx of capital from foreign 
 States and countries. Then we were all 
 unanimously in favor of presenting our own 
 Constitution to the people, with the under-' 
 standing among ourselves, to say the least of 
 it, that we should be sustained by the patri- 
 otism and intelligence of the peopte. 
 
 But now it has been discovered, by these 
 very same men who were so very anxious 
 that we should come here at the dead hour of 
 the night, contrary to all former usage, con- 
 trary to everything like courtesy-^I say it 
 has been discovered that we were all wrong, 
 and they now propose to back down from 
 their positions, and say we were lying to the 
 people, and that all that hue and crj' was 
 moonshine, and that there was no truth in 
 it, and that because anarchy !ind confusion 
 are about to sweep over the land we must 
 unite upon one Constitution. 
 . Sir, when we were candidates before the 
 people, what was our story ? VTe desired to 
 be elected as Republicans to this Convention, 
 and why ? For the purpose of securing a 
 majority in this Convention. And why ? So 
 that we could carve up this Territory in such 
 a manner as to secure two members in Con- 
 gress ; and not only that, but to carve it up 
 so that we could secure a majority of the first 
 Legislature, and, by so doing, secure two 
 Senators in the United States Senate— that 
 we might send to the Halls of the National 
 Legislature men who would represent Repub- 
 lican views and sentiments. That was the 
 story we told oixr constituents at the time we 
 were candidates, and the people elected fifty, 
 nine of us. And we fifty-nine came here 
 with the understanding that a majority should 
 rule. That is an old and established Demo- 
 cratic doctrine. 
 
 And now, Mr. Chaibmax, instead of carry- 
 ing out what our constituents supposed we 
 would carry out, and instead of adliering 
 strictly to our rights as a majority, we pro- 
 pose to throw all this arrangement into such 
 
572 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fbiday, August 28. 
 
 a state that the Republicans will not elect one 
 single member of Congress, and by which 
 the Democrats will stand one equal chance 
 with us in securing a majority in the first Le- 
 gislature, and thereby two Senators in the 
 United States Senate. These are my opin- 
 ions. Having told this story to the people, 
 before whom I was a candidate, I do not pro- 
 pose now to eat my own words. I am not 
 disposed to back down from that position. I 
 am disposed to look back and see what tracks 
 I have made, what stories I have told, and 
 what positions I have taken, and I am dis- 
 posed here to adhere to those positions. 
 
 I came here as one of the majority of this 
 Convention, .and being of the majority, I sup- 
 posed we had the right to rule and control it, 
 Now what is the objection raised against sub- 
 mitting two Constitutions to the people ? We 
 are told that the Democrats will make ar- 
 rangements by which they will have a foreign 
 population in the river counties which will 
 cram our ballot-boxes full of votes, and in 
 case the ballot-boxes will not hold a sufficient 
 number of votes to* secure their success, that 
 they will bring in dry-goods boxes and cram 
 them full of voies also. Now I ask you, if 
 they can do that in regard to the Constitution, 
 can they not do it also in the election of 
 judges, the members of Congress, and mem- 
 bers of the Legislature? Certainly tlieycan,' 
 and all this hue and cry now raised about the 
 diflBculty of submitting two Constitutions, is 
 an after thought — as much an after thought 
 as it was with Douglas when he brought in 
 his second Nebraska report. I am one who 
 always was suspicious of these after thoughts, 
 and generally disposed to adhere to the posi- 
 tions I have taken, provided I am right in 
 thj first instance. It does seem to me that 
 those men who are so fast for this comprom- 
 ise, who say we miuit compromise, that it is 
 the all-absorbing question, that the whole 
 country is looking upon us and anxiously ex- 
 pecting that we shall make a * compromise, 
 should look back a little and see the position 
 we occupied six weeks ago, when we said to 
 the people that we would present to them a 
 Constitution which would be Republican in 
 its character. 
 
 Look at some other points. We came here 
 as Republicans, and many of us were in favor 
 of negro suffrage ; and when we talked over 
 
 the question in caucus a good manj of us 
 said that we were entirely ready and willing 
 to submit it as a separate proposition to the 
 people. Why? Btcause we were anxious 
 for speedy admission into the Union, because 
 we wanted our Constitution ratified by the 
 people, and did not wish the fate of the Con- 
 stitution to hang upon the fate of the decision 
 of the negi'o-suffrage question — for a good 
 many of the Republicans, or men who are 
 acting with the Republican party, are re- 
 cently from the Democratic or Whig ranks, 
 and are not so much abolitionized as a good 
 many others, and therefore not so exceedingly 
 fast upon the question of negro suffrage. 
 We compromised upon that question, and 
 unanimously agreed to submit it as a sepai'ate 
 proposition. Now what do we propose ? We 
 propose to give that question the go-by, en- 
 tirely. 
 
 What do we get in return for it? We 
 get Indian suffrage ; we get at least six or 
 seven hundred half-breeds, who have, by vir- 
 tue of that report, not only the right to the 
 exercise of the elective franchise, but to be 
 made oflScers of the State of Minnesota ; and 
 not only that, but they can hold any oflice 
 that the people of this proposed State see fit 
 to boost them into, except Governor and 
 Lieutenant-Governor. We propose to back 
 down, and say that the negro shall not vote, 
 and say that the people shall not express 
 their views upon it. That is what we receive 
 in return for our desire to compromise and 
 arrange this whole difficulty. 
 
 Now, sir, I stood here as the opposer of In- 
 dian suffrage, unless the right was confined 
 to those who had adopted the dress, habits 
 and customs of civilized life, and had passed 
 through an ordeal which should satisfy the 
 mind of any intelligent man that they had 
 done so. As to the necessity of that, we have 
 only to look to the Sioux and Winnebago re- 
 serves to see what an amount of votes can be 
 polled upon those two reserves without such 
 restrictions — and all upon one side too, under 
 and by virtue of that one Constitution which 
 you propose to send out to the people. And 
 whUe you are conferring these extraordinary 
 rights, you prescribe the negro race, and 
 strike at the root of popular sovereignty, 
 which is that the people have a right to de- 
 cide all these questions themselves. This is 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, August 28. 
 
 573 
 
 what you propose to do by virtue of this glo- 
 rious compromise. 
 
 Now, so far as I am concerned, I ^ould 
 rather we had, when those who claim to be 
 Democratic members left this Hall, followed 
 them into the Hall, and whenever the question 
 came up there, allowed them to control it 
 themselves, or else have taken our hats and 
 gone home. And I say, sir, if there had not 
 been one single Republican in this Convention, 
 the Democrats could not have got up a more 
 anti-Republican Constitution than this which 
 is recommended by the committee. No dem- 
 ocratic Constitution could be more anti-repub- 
 lican than this very same Constitution. 
 
 Now taking into consideration the positions 
 we have previously occupied, the things we 
 have previously contended for, — the right of 
 submitting this question of negro suflfrage to 
 the people ; the propriety of compelling for- 
 eigners to remain a certain length of time in 
 the country until they become somewhat ac- 
 quainted with the machinery of government ; 
 the restriction upon the right of suflfrage to 
 certain half-breeds and whole blooded Indians 
 having certain qualifications, — and are no\v 
 proposing to abandon all these for the pur- 
 pose of compromising, and for the purpose of 
 avoiding this great calamity, this war and 
 destruction which gentlemen say are now hov- 
 ering over this land, but which, six months 
 ago, no member of this Convention dreamed 
 of existing ; I say, in view of all these things 
 I have simply to say in the language of the 
 pious old poet : 
 
 "Black spirits and white, blue spirits and gray. 
 Mingle, mingle, mingle, ye who want to, may." 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. So far as I am concerned, 
 I agree cordially and heartily with much that 
 my friend who has just resumed his seat (Mr. 
 CoGGS^vELL,) has stated, and for the purpose 
 of justifying myself before my constituents 
 and the Territory, I beg leave to submit a few 
 remarks. 
 
 So far as our organization is concerned, 
 every member knows the position I assumed; 
 and so far as the conference question was con- 
 cerned, every member here also knows the 
 position I assumed on that. I was, with my 
 friend, (Mr. Coggswell) in favor of giving or 
 submitting a Constitution made by the Re- 
 publican members who had been elected to 
 this Constitutional Convention. In my ab- 
 
 sence at home a resolution was passed, author- 
 izing the creation of a joint commtttee. to 
 meet a like ccmmittee to be appointed by the 
 body sitting in the other wing of the Capitol, 
 ily name was placed upon that committee. 
 When I returned, I took occasion to disprove 
 of what had been done ; but I am just as 
 much in fevor of the majority ruling as my 
 friend before me (Mr. Coggswell,) is, and 
 when a majority of this Convention had de- 
 cided that such a course as that should be 
 pursued, as a matter of course, I submitted 
 to it. I hesitated sometime whether I should 
 decline serving on that committee, or whether 
 I should go there in conformity to the wishes 
 of those who appointed me. I consulted with 
 friends, and stated substantially my objec- 
 tions to them, and I was induced by their 
 advice and suggestions to consent to serve as 
 a member of that committee. I went there 
 for the purpose of carrying out the views of 
 the Convention as far as it was possible for 
 me to do, and no vote have I given in that 
 committee contrary to a majority vote given 
 in this body on the same subjects, only with 
 one exception, which I will point out in aTew 
 minutes, and that was not given until after 
 consultation with those gentlemen who had 
 voted for a certain proposition, and until I 
 was told that it would meet their views. 
 
 The very first day after we went into the 
 committee, I was satisfied from the acts and 
 fi-om the declarations of the chairman of the 
 part of the committee appointed by the other 
 body, (Mr. Gokmax,) that it was his determi- 
 nation never to agree upon one Constitution, 
 I was satisfied from the positions which he 
 assumed and the questions he brought up 
 there, that he was determined to make a split 
 right upon the question, and that alone, of 
 negro suffrage. "We passed on from one sub- 
 ject to another until we arrived at a certain 
 point where this question had to be met di- 
 rectly in the face. Not being able to get over 
 that point, I submitted to the conference com- 
 mittee that they should not make provisions 
 for submitting two Constitutions imtil we had 
 made one more eflfort to agree upon one, (af- 
 ter first having agreed upon those points in 
 our Constitution which, if diflTerent, would 
 lead to a conflict in the returns, and to a con- 
 flict between the difierent sets of oflBcers 
 elected under them.) The whole idea of sub- 
 
574 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, August 28. 
 
 mitting one Constitution had then been given 
 up. A proposition had been submitted in the 
 other body, and voted for by every member 
 of their committee, that the right of suffrage 
 should not be extended by the Constitution to 
 any one having African blood ; that the Con- 
 stitution should not be so amended as by any 
 possibility to allow them the right of suffrage; 
 and that no law should ever be passed sub- 
 mitting to the people the question whether 
 the right of suffrage should be extended to 
 them. That proposition was submitted to us, 
 every Democratic member of the committee 
 voting for it, and our members voting against 
 it. The proposition which I submitted when 
 we arrived at that part of the Schedule in 
 which we were going on to make provision for 
 the submission of two Constitutions, I sub- 
 mitted on my own responsibility, atter consul- 
 tation with some gentlemen of this Conven- 
 tion. The proposition was substantially this: 
 
 " Provided, nevertheless, that nothing in this 
 Constitution shall be so construed as to prevent the 
 Legislature at any time from passing a law extend- 
 ing the right of suffrage — " 
 
 Not to negroes, not to foreigners, not to wo- 
 men, but a general extension of the right of 
 suffrage to all to whom the Legislature should 
 see proper to extend it ; — 
 "But that no such law should take effect until it 
 was submitted to a vote of the people and be ap- 
 proved by a majorityof the votes cast upon that 
 subject." 
 
 I intended that our Democratic friends, if 
 they split, should split upon that point and 
 decide that the people should not decide any- 
 thing. I contended that that proposition was 
 democratic, an old Jeffersonian principle, and 
 that I should declare that no man could be a 
 Democrat who should deny such a right. 
 
 When that proposition was submitted, my 
 friend Brown, a member of the committee 
 from the other wing, said that that did seem 
 actually democratic, that there could be no 
 objection to it. It was then proposed by, him 
 that we should so amend the article upon 
 amendments to the Constitution so as to just 
 get what we wanted ; and in doing that, Mr. 
 Pbesident, we got a great deal more than we 
 would have asked for, and a great deal more 
 than the Democrats probably now think that 
 we did get. 
 
 Let us see : our Democratic friends had a 
 
 proposition in their Constitution substantially 
 like this : 
 
 "Whenever a majority of both Houses of the 
 Legislature shall deem it necessary to alter or 
 amend this Constitution, they may propose such 
 alteration or amendment, which proposed amend- 
 ment shall be submitted to the next legislative as- 
 sembly, be published with the laws which shall 
 have been passed at the same session, and if a ma- 
 jority of each House, at the next session of the 
 legislative assembly shall approve of the amend- 
 ment proposed, on a vote by yeas and nays, said 
 amendment shall be submitted to the people." 
 
 This was the proposition which our Democrat- 
 ic friends had in their article upon the amend- 
 ments to the Constitution. According to that 
 one Legislature would have to propose an 
 amendment, publish it with their laws, sub- 
 mit it to the next Legislature, to be passed 
 by a majority of that Legislature, and then 
 be submitted to a vote of the people. Two 
 successive Legislatures would have to have 
 acted upon it, and then the people would have 
 had to have acted upon it before it could have 
 been adopted. Our proposed amendment was 
 this: — "that a majority of both Houses may 
 " propose amendments, shall publish them with 
 "their laws, and that they shall be submitted 
 " to the people for their approval or rejection at 
 " the first election thereafter." 
 
 Now, what did our friends in favor of negro 
 suffrage sacrifice by that? They sacrificed 
 the privilege of submitting to the people, as a 
 separate proposal, at the time of the adoption 
 or rejection of this Constitution, the question 
 whether the right of suffrage shall be extend- 
 ed to those in whose veins runs African blood. 
 They know, I know, and everybody knows, 
 that that would have been voted down by an 
 overwhelming majority, and that no vote 
 could have been taken upon it again. When 
 they had once voted, their power would have 
 been exhausted. Then they have simply 
 sacrified the privilege of giving a minority 
 vote in favor of that proposition ; for not one 
 of them will say that it could pass. Every 
 Democrat in the whole country would vote 
 against it, and a large majority of the Repub- 
 licans would vote against it ; hence it could 
 not pass. 
 
 Now let us see what our friends upon that 
 side gain by it. Why if they are prudent — 
 and I suppose they are and will be — they will 
 never jM-oposo such an amendment until the 
 public mind is educated up to that idea, that 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, August 28. 
 
 575 
 
 they will be pretty sure that they vnM get a 
 majority. I do not believe there is one of 
 them who is so impolitic as to wish to take a 
 vote upon a thing continually, when it must 
 come out in the minority every time. I hope 
 no man belonging to either the Republican or 
 Democratic party could be so impolitic as that. 
 They have gained this point, then, that when- 
 ever they think the question can be passed 
 by the people, and they have a majority of 
 the Iicgislature which will propose such an 
 amendment, it can be voted upon, and if it 
 obtains a majority of votes, it becomes a part 
 and parcel of the Constitution. Now that can 
 be done at any time hereafter, while under 
 our own proposition the question could only 
 be voted on now, when we all acknowledge 
 that it would be voted down, and then our 
 power would all be exhausted. 
 
 It may be that the people may want to ex- 
 tend the right of suffrage to women, to In- 
 dians, or to negroes ; and under this provi- 
 sion they can extend it to any class they 
 think proper. Now, in my judgment, that is 
 a great gain for them. They could take a 
 vote on the proposition we proposed to sub- 
 mit, but they could not succeed, and then 
 their ammunition would be exhausted. By 
 this they can await the proper time until their 
 eye is unerringly upon the mark, and then 
 drawing the trigger, there will be some chance 
 of their prey. 
 
 But again : granting for the sake of the ar- 
 gument that we have gained nothing upon 
 this point, it is true that we have lost nothing. 
 ^Ye can propose by a majority vote of the 
 Legislature, at any time to submit any amend- 
 ment to a vote of the people. A banking law 
 ■could be recommended by the Legislature, 
 and become a part of the Constitution after 
 it shall be ratified by the people. The bank- 
 ing privilege is an important one, and in my 
 judgment no law granting banking privileges 
 ought to go into operation without the sanc- 
 tion of the people, expressed by a direct vote 
 upon that one question. 
 
 I don't know but that I am more demo- 
 cratic than the Democrats themselves. I have 
 every confidence in the people, and in the rep- 
 resentatives of the people ; and if the people 
 do wrong, or their representatives do wrong, 
 I believe they have the power and the wis- 
 dom to correct the evil. Wrong may be per- 
 
 petrated, unwise and unjust legislation may 
 be passed ; but the people will chastise their 
 representatives just as certainly as they exist, 
 and will correct those evils as soon as they 
 can. I am willing to leave this matter entire- 
 ly with the people. So far as my judgment 
 is concerned, our friends, so tenacious upon 
 the subject of negro suffrage, have gained 
 materially by the provision as it now stands. 
 Certain defeat would have been the inevitable 
 result of a vote this fall. Now they will have 
 some chance hereafter, if they are prudent, 
 when the pubhc mind becomes educated upon 
 the subject. It may be a long time before 
 the prejudice which now exists can be eradi- 
 cated; but when it is, they -wiU have a 
 chance. 
 
 As to my friend before me, (Mr, Coggs- 
 WELL,) I will say there is no man for whose 
 opinions I have a higher respect. He has for 
 a long time been my equal, and, I would ad- 
 mit, my superior in knowledge. We have 
 been partners in law together, and always, 
 when we differed I have bowed with humble 
 submission, [laughter] because it is true he 
 is a perfect book worm. I have known him, 
 however, somestimes mistaken ; sometimes I 
 have known him not to carry his point, and 
 even the court dared to differ with him ; and 
 sometimes I have known twelve honest jurors 
 to differ with him ; but that did not lessen him 
 in my estimation at all — not in the least. So 
 I think he may sometimes err in his judg- 
 ment. 
 
 I shall vote, myself, for this proposition, 
 because it meets my views precisely ; but I 
 do not ask a majority of this Convention to 
 do so. Let them act like men — like Republi- 
 cans, and in the spirit of true Jeffersonian 
 Republicans ; and if there is anything which 
 they do not like and cannot conscientiously 
 vote for, as men they ought to vote against it, 
 and they would do wrong if they did not. It 
 would be remarkable if a Constitution had 
 been framed by us — a band of Republican 
 brothers — without the Democrats to fight 
 with, upon which, when the final vote was 
 taken, we should have all been found united. 
 It would have been a remarkable circum- 
 stance. I am not much in favor of unani- 
 mous votes upon any important thing, because 
 it looks a little too much as though that con- 
 sideration had not been given it which there 
 
576 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, August 28. 
 
 ought to have been. But I shall bow to the 
 will of the majority. If every man in the 
 Convention should vote against it, I shall be- 
 lieve that they have acted rightly and consci- 
 entiously. 
 
 But my friend (Mr. Coggswell) seems a 
 little concerned lest some half-breed might, 
 perchance, be Governor of the State of Min- 
 nesota. Well, I do not suppose my friend, 
 if a majority of the people of Minnesota 
 should select Fred Douglas, or any other per- 
 son having African blood in his veins to be 
 Governor, would dare to say they had not the 
 right to do so. No man would say that, who 
 had the first particle of Republicanism in his 
 veins, and I know my friend is full of it. 
 When the public mind becomes educated and 
 familiarized with the savages of the forest as 
 to take that hard named fellow — [A voice, 
 " Ink-pa-du-tah"] well, I will take his pronun- 
 ciation first. When the public mind shall 
 become so far educated as to pick him up and 
 make him Governor of Minnesota, though I 
 should vote against him, undoubtedly, I would 
 not further object. Nor would I leave the 
 Territory, because I should expect to get into 
 a fight pretty soon, and upon certain occasions 
 I would as soon fight as stand still. 
 
 Well, now, upon whom do we bestow the 
 right of voting ? First, to white citizens of the 
 United States. Second, to white persons of 
 foreign birth who shall have declared their 
 intentions to become citizens conformably to 
 the laws of the United States upon the sub- 
 ject of naturalization. There is nothing wrong 
 thus far. Third, to persons of mixed white 
 and Indian blood who have adopted the hab- 
 its and customs of civilization. The only 
 question which can arise upon that point is in 
 reference to the length of time that they 
 should have adopted the customs and habits 
 of civilized society. That is all. It is a mere 
 matter of time ; because if they have the very 
 best blood of those who may have come amongst 
 them tracing through their veins, if they are 
 not men when they come to maturity, I ap- 
 prehend that the good sense of community 
 will never take them up and place them in any 
 oflBce ; or if they do, they will have to bear 
 the consequences. 
 
 The next class is, '• persons of Indian blood 
 " residing in tliis State, who have adopted the 
 " language, customs and habits of civilization. 
 
 ' ' after an examination before any District Court 
 " of the State, in such manner as may be pro- 
 " vided by law, and shall have been pronounced 
 "by said Court capable of enjoying the rights 
 "of citizenship within the State." 
 
 Now, in order to object to that, in my judg- 
 ment, he must come to the conclusion that 
 the Judge of a District Court must be a cor- 
 rupt, base and perjured villain. Why? Be- 
 cause if he were not he would never certify 
 to anything which he knew to be untrue for 
 the purpose of making a vote. I care not 
 whether he be Republican or Democrat, he 
 would have to degrade himself below the sav- 
 ages of the forest before he would do it. I 
 have not, when upon the stump, a great deal 
 of confidence in what my democratic friends 
 say; they always go in for victory, and I ex- 
 pect the Republicans will do the same ; and 
 if a Republican should be a Judge, under the 
 solemnities of an oath, I should come to the 
 conclusion that he ^ would do right, and I 
 would not say that a Democrat, under the 
 solemnities of an oflBcial oath would not do 
 right, until I was satisfied to the contrary by 
 an act which he had'perpetratcd, even though 
 when upon the stump telling a story about 
 the Republicans, I would not believe a word; 
 [laughter] for they would present the facts and 
 the arguments in the best manner possible; 
 and so would my friend before me, (Mr. 
 CoGGSWELL,) for I tell you he can present 
 facts upon the stump, that if men did not 
 know they came from such a source they 
 would be staggered to believe them. [Great 
 laughter.] 
 
 As to the last part of that latter provision, 
 I would, if I had my own way, have made it 
 a little different in reference to the half-breeds, 
 though I would not in reference to the full- 
 blooded Indians. 
 
 Now, it was impossible for us to agree 
 upon one Constitution and put the African 
 upon the same footing with the Indians. 
 That was a matter of impossibility. Then 
 what must wo do ? So far as lowering our 
 dignity is concerned, I profess to have as 
 much dignity as the circumstances will admit 
 of. Since I came to St. Paul, [laughter,] I 
 have been necessitated to accommodate my- 
 self to surroundhig circumstances. Well, 
 each body firmly and positively declared that 
 it was the Constitutional Convention, and, as 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, August 28. 
 
 577 
 
 a necessary consequence, that the other was 
 bogus. Novr, there is one of us mistaken in 
 that declaration. But a correspondence takes 
 place between those two dignified bodies, and 
 in some way or another, by the appointment 
 of a joint committee, they met upon a com 
 mon level. I do not care which occupied the 
 highest post before, the moment the commit- 
 tee was appointed they met upon common 
 ground, and although one assembled in one 
 end of the Capitol and the other in the other, 
 virtually they were one, and the only diflFer- 
 ence was whether Sibley or Balcombe should 
 be the head. I presume that the sun would 
 rise and set, and that the heavens would not 
 fall, though the heads of Sibley and Bal- 
 combe were to be severed from the trunks. 
 I do not believe the whole arrangement of 
 creation would be disarranged if they were 
 both in paradise. (Great laughter.) Now 
 the question was this : Shall all our hopes of 
 seeing Minnesota come into the Union as a 
 State be blasted, after having appointed this 
 committee of Conference, by the submission 
 of two Constitutions, by the wai-fere that would 
 run over our Representative Districts, and the 
 confusion that would reign from beginning 
 to end ; or shall men act like wise men and re- 
 concile the matter and [submit but one Con- 
 stitution, and then go upon the stump and 
 fight our battles in that way ? And I tell my 
 Democratic friends, that just as certain as 
 fate, if my exertions will beat them in the 
 coming campaign I Avill do it. There is no 
 mistake about that. If my exertions would 
 secure the election of every State, county and 
 town officer to the Republicans, I would do 
 it; and they are more docile than I think 
 they are if they would not do the same — and 
 it is said that they sometimes condescend to 
 pretty mean things. But that has nothing to 
 do with the question before us. Shall we 
 adopt this Constitution or shall we not ? So 
 far as I am concerned, I shall vote for it, 
 though I do not ask any single member of 
 this Convention to do so. I feel bound by 
 everything which the Convention has done, 
 but if adopted, it must be adopted as a whole, 
 because a single amendment destroys the 
 whole arrangement between us. If they 
 make an amendment, they violate every sin- 
 gle principle upon which they appointed that 
 committee ; if we do, we do also. If they 
 73 
 
 make an amendment, let them take the conse- 
 quences of submitting two Constitutions ; if 
 we do it, we must take the consequen- 
 ces. 
 
 Now, there has been quite a quarrel as to 
 how this matter of signing the Constitution 
 should be got along with, so as to get the 
 Constitution into the Governor's office. Mr. 
 Sibley thinks he would be lowering his dig- 
 nity to sign one Constitution with Mr. Bal- 
 combe. Now I think that is very contempti- 
 ble, and mere child's play; and to satisfy 
 that gentleman, we made out two sets of pa- 
 pers, exactly alike, word for word, and they 
 sign each separately as the Constitution of 
 the State of Minnesota. It is a joint product 
 of the joint committee of both ends of the 
 Capitol, and they are filed separately in the 
 Secretary's office. Now in my humble judg- 
 ment, between those two men it is the most 
 childish thing I ever heard of; but as it does 
 not hurt any body, let the children do as they 
 please. I am willing they should do so when 
 it does not affect the accomplishment of the 
 object we have in view. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move that the final 
 question on ordering the report to a third 
 reading be taken at half past three o'clock 
 this afternoon. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. I hope, if there is any 
 gentleman who has anything to say upon this 
 •eport he will say it now. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. A number of members 
 have gone to dinner, not supposing that the 
 question would be taken till this afternoon. 
 
 Mr. EJEMP. I move that the Convention 
 take a recess until half past two o'clock. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. While it is desirable 
 that every member should be present to vote 
 upon this subject, it is also desirable that the 
 vote should be taken at once. Speeches have 
 been made upon each side, and the remarks 
 of the gentleman from Goodhue County ex- 
 pressed the united voice of the committee. 
 They were characterised by practical good 
 sense, and I en lorse every word uttered by 
 him. The conclusions he came to are correct 
 in the opinion of the committee, and I think 
 they cannot be questioned by the Convention. 
 The remarks of the gentleman from Steele 
 County (Mr. Coggswell) were as good as 
 can be made upon that side. If there are 
 any further remarks to be made, I hope we 
 
578 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Feiday, August; 28. 
 
 shall have them immediately, so that we may 
 dispose of this matter as soon as possible. 
 
 Mr. BALCOMBE. Lest some wrong im- 
 pression may go abroad, from the remarks of 
 the gentleman from Goodhue (Mr. McCluke) 
 as to the matter of signing one Constitution, 
 I wish to state that I have never refused to 
 sign one Constitution in company with my 
 friend, Mr. Sibley, and do not now. I stand 
 ready at any and all times to sign one instru- 
 ment with him, and I prefer to do so, to filing 
 two separate pieces of paper, each containing 
 one and the same Constitution. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. My remarks were merely 
 inferential. 
 
 The motion to take a recess was then 
 agreed to. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention was called to order at half 
 past two o'clock. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The question is upon 
 ordering the report of the committee of Con- 
 ference to a third reading. 
 . Mr. SECOMBE. The subject matters con- 
 tained in the report of the committee, have 
 been before the Convention during its session 
 and have been discussed. There are in the 
 report, probably, no matters other than what 
 have been either adopted or rejected by this 
 Convention, and as was remarked this fore- 
 noon by the gentleman from Goodhue County ,# 
 it has been my lot to say more or less upon 
 the propositions which have been before the 
 Convention. The remarks I have made re- 
 main a matter of record, and I propose simply 
 to say, at the present time, that the various 
 matters I have approved of at times when I 
 have spoken heretofore, I approve of now, 
 and those of which I expressed my disappro- 
 bation, are entitled to the same disapproba- 
 tion now. 
 
 At the same time, Mr. President, I pro- 
 pose to vote for the report which has been 
 made by the committee. 1 do so because, al- 
 though it does not meet my approbation in all 
 respects, I believe it is for the best. I be- 
 lieve that no gentleman of this Convention, 
 when he comes to consider upon the practi- 
 cal importance of this vote, will differ from the 
 opinion I have expressed, and which has been 
 expressed by the gentleman from Goodhue 
 County. But I desire to say a word espe- 
 
 cially in reference to one subject which has 
 been discussed pretty thoroughly heretofore — 
 the right of suffrage. I cannot vote for this 
 report without again entering my protest 
 against the doctrine of the report enunciated 
 upon that subject. But, Mr. President, the 
 general provision for proposing and adopting 
 amendments to the Constitution, is of such 
 a nature that the will of the majority of the 
 people of the State of Minnesota, cannot be 
 prevented an expression. If a majority of 
 the people of the State, at the meeting of the 
 first Legislature see in the Constitution, which 
 we propose to send out to them, errors and 
 omissions, or matters inserted which should 
 not be there inserted, they have a plain and 
 simple method by which they can relieve 
 themselves from the burden upon them. For 
 that reason I shall vote for the Constitution 
 as it now stands, hoping that the time will 
 come when, in respect to the elective fran- 
 chise, the Legislature and the people of the 
 State of Minnesota will take the true ground 
 of liberty upon that subject. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I wish to say but one 
 word. I shall vote for this report though I 
 do dislike parts of it very much. I dislike a 
 part of the judicial system, and I dislike very 
 much indeed the arrangement for electing 
 members of Congress The location of the 
 University — I need not say I dislike that. I 
 have not changed my mind. The committee 
 have reported it, and doubtless they have 
 done what they thought best and right. I 
 shall vote for the report, though I would it 
 were different. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I do not know as it is ne- 
 cessary to say anything upon this occasion. 
 I do not wish to take up the time of the Con- 
 vention, but I will say a word. 
 
 There are points in this Constitution, as 
 reported, that I very much wish were other- 
 wise. The position I have taken upon some 
 iwints contained in that report, is well known ; 
 and I might refer to quite a number of point.N 
 which I think could have been very much im- 
 proved. Upon the suflrage point, particu- 
 larly, T could M'ish the report were diHercnt. 
 But since this Convention decided to insert 
 the word " white" — and there is no hope now 
 of getting it out— it becomes with me a ques- 
 tion whether the present provision is a better 
 one than the contemplated provision to sub- 
 
MINNESOTA CON'^TINTION DEBATES— PRiDAf, August 28. 
 
 579 
 
 mit that question now to the people. It may 
 seem to some like yielding a principle not to 
 submit that question to the people when the 
 Constitution is submitted, but to my mind 
 we gain as much ia the trade as we yield. 
 For that reason, I shall not feel it my duty to 
 oppose the Constitution as it has been report- 
 ed. In those points in which the people wish 
 to change it, it can be changed at any time 
 by amendment proposed in the Legislature, 
 and submitted to the people immediately, 
 ^vithout waiting a tedious process through 
 vears to accomplish it It affords an oppor- 
 ■ '.nity for improving that instrument, which 
 -her methods of amendment might not af- 
 urd. I have it also from good authority, 
 >rom persons most deeply interested in the 
 -Tjuffrage question, that the most intelligent of 
 ;ie colored class feel that this provision is 
 etter than the other would have been, 
 ihat, to my mind, is something of a reason 
 ;0r being satisfied with the provisions of this 
 eport upon that subject. I shall, therefore, 
 vote for this report, and hope it will be 
 adopted. 
 
 Mr. MESSER. I merely wish to say that 
 I deem it my duty to vote for this report at 
 this time, but, while I do so, I wish again to 
 enter my protest against the provision in re- 
 gard to negro suffrage — a question upon 
 which I have taken a decided stand. But 
 when this Convention agreed to appoirit this 
 committee it was seen by me, and by the 
 Convention, that that was the only alterna- 
 tive, and that it was necessary that there 
 should be a compi*omise. Consequently, a 
 committee was appointed and a compromise 
 made more to my satisfaction than I had 
 dared to hope ; and while the word " white " 
 is retained in the Constitution, I intend to 
 follow up the matter to the Legislature, and 
 exert what influence I possess, to have the 
 word erased from the Constitution. Taking 
 such a view of this matter, I shall vote for 
 the report. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I, for one, shall vote for 
 the report. It is not exactly what I would 
 like ; nor would the Constitution, which we 
 had nearly framed, have been exactly what I 
 desired. I did not come here expecting to 
 get an instrument which would suit me in 
 every respect. I came here expecting to find 
 a variety of opinions differing from, mine, and 
 
 that some of them would find their way into 
 the Constitution ; and it would be no more 
 than I could expect, to have to vote, finally, 
 for an instrument which contained provisions 
 I do not very much admire. In reference to 
 the article on Elective Franchise contained in 
 this document, I hke it much better than a 
 great many other provision! on that subject 
 which could have been made. I can now 
 see some possible chance of extendmg the 
 right of suffrage to the colored man, when the 
 people of the State of Minnesota shall be 
 better prepared to do so than they are at 
 present. I was convinced, on hearing the 
 argmnents of gentlemen upon this subject 
 when it was before the Convention, that we 
 couki not get a majority of the people of the 
 incoming State of Mimiesota to sustain the 
 doctrine of the right of suffrage upon the 
 part of colored persons. Under tlie airange- 
 mentx we had proposed for ourselves, after 
 we had cast one vote we should have ex- 
 hausted our power; but now we can have 
 the question submitted time and again. 
 
 There are other reasons why I shall sup- 
 port this Constitution. I have been laboring 
 for weeks under a dilemma as to the manner 
 in which we were going to get into the Union, 
 but I can now see how we are going to get 
 into the Union without turmoil and confusion. 
 I might add other reasons, but it is tmneces, 
 sarj'. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. In regard to this matter, 
 I scorn now, as ever, to make an apology for 
 what I do deliberately. I make none. I ask 
 none. Let every man dispassionately deter- 
 mine what is his duty, aside from outside 
 pressure or improper influences, and stand 
 acquit at the bar of his own judgment and 
 conscience. Were I acting for myself on- 
 ly, it would be of very. Httle consequence 
 how I should vote upon this question because 
 not many years hence, the circumstances, 
 the influences, and the policy which govern 
 us to-day as individuals will have been cov- 
 ered up in the past and forgotten ; but the 
 acts we do will live and tell upon i^es yet to 
 come. Having opposed certain measures 
 when they were properly before us, which 
 are now retained in this report, I cannot see 
 by what course of reasoning gentlemen who 
 acted with me then are now found upon the 
 other side. Have the facts changed ? Is the 
 
580 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, August 28. 
 
 principle different ? Has Republicanism be- 
 come a different ism from what it was the 
 thirteenth of last month ? I trust not. Have 
 we a less desperate foe to contend with, or a 
 country whose claims are lighter upon us ? 
 Not at all. The right had advocates then, 
 and I trust it will have a few still. Gentle- 
 men say to me it is policy, under present cir- 
 cumstances, to act so and so. I deny that 
 anything is true policy which is vrrong. 
 When shall we learn from the history of the 
 past, that to do right, to love mercy, and 
 to deal justly, are the surest safeguards of 
 liberty ? Are we to gain national eminence, 
 and become great and good as a nation, by 
 means that would sink individuals, socially 
 and morally ? By no means. Such is not 
 the order of things. 
 
 I hold that no defeat from outside pressure 
 is as disastrous to us as a people, as a sur- 
 render of the high position which Republicans 
 have hitherto assumed. I speak not now par- 
 ticularly of the suffrage question. I differ 
 with many gentlemen upon that point, and 
 my views are upon the record, but there are 
 other features in this report which we, as a 
 Convention, have refused to recognize. I make 
 no factious opposition because I bow humbly 
 to the will of the majority. If this Constitu- 
 tion is ad«pted by the Convention, I will labor 
 for its acceptance by the people, and for the 
 election of the candidates nominated to serve 
 under it. But because I apprehend that a ma- 
 jority are going to vote for it, must I necessa- 
 rily consent to vote with the majority ? Not 
 at all. I can be consistent without going with 
 the current. 
 
 How should I answer to the future for 
 such a course ? I have not so learned the 
 rula of life. It may be that I am behind the 
 age. It may be that I was never designed 
 for a politician. That is a sphere in which I 
 desire not to act. But if I act as a politician, 
 I must act too as a man, and whether I act 
 in an individual or in a representative capa- 
 city, I must apply the same rule to myself, 
 and leave it to future generations to decide 
 whether I am right or not. When the vote 
 is taken, you will record my silent, firm, but 
 solemn '' No." I bequeath not to Minnesota, 
 the homo of my adoption, a Constitution un- 
 worthy of her. I would bequeath to her a 
 jargecr and purer gift than gentlemen around 
 
 me — I would give her liberty, socially, politi- 
 cally, and morally. These I tender to her by 
 my vote. 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. Mr. Pbesident : I have but 
 a very few words. I have seen Republicans 
 vote to sustain enormous corporations, and 
 willing to confer upon them powers and priv- 
 ileges by which they might crush out indivi- 
 dual rights ; and again, I have seen them vote 
 against submitting to the people of Minnesota 
 the decision of a proposition which immedi- 
 ately affected their rights, and which did not, 
 in substance, amount to anything more than 
 a memorial to Congress. And now, when 
 they bring forward this compromise, I see 
 that it has been obtained at the sacrifice of 
 almost everything for which I was elected. I 
 see that the apportionment of representation 
 is sacrificed by it. I see in it, that the Uni- 
 versity Fund is placed in a position to be con- 
 trolled by a few. I see in it the sacrifice of 
 almost everything for which I have worked 
 earnestly and honestly in many a campaign ; 
 questions involving the greatest principles, all 
 sacrificed and given up at once for this com- 
 promise. I know, sir, that my opposition 
 cannot avail anything. I know tliat I cannot 
 argue here successfully against this report. 
 But I want to be consistent. I want to sus- 
 tain here a position that shall be consistent 
 with what I have done and said heretofore ; 
 and therefore I have determined to do here 
 upon this question, the same thing that I shall 
 do elsewhere. I shall vote against this report 
 here, and I .shall vote against the Constitution 
 it embodies, when it shall come before the 
 people. If it be in my power to prevent its 
 adoption by the people, I shall do it. I would 
 rather have no Constitution. I would far 
 rather see a new Convention called to frame 
 another Constitution. Taking this view of 
 the subject, sir, it is impossible for mo to sus- 
 tain this report. I have stood here amongst 
 those who have thought a compromise was 
 desirable, if it could be obtained without tho 
 sacrifice of rights and great principles ; but 
 when I find, that, instead of such a compro- 
 mize, we are presented with a report, by which 
 we are overreached and humbled not only as 
 a party, but as a Convention and as indivi- 
 uals, I cannot and will not give it the sanction 
 of my vote. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. Mr. President: Inasmuch 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Fridat, ArcusT 28. 
 
 581 
 
 as both my colleagues have e^ressed their 
 >riews upon this report, perhaps I ought to 
 give mine. I have to say, sir, that I shall 
 vote against this report, for the reason, that 
 I think it requires of us the sacrifice of a prin- 
 ciple. I have been of the number of those 
 here who never have been in favor of a com- 
 promise. I have never been anxious for^uni- 
 ting with tlie other body upon one Constitu- 
 tion, for the reason that, I saw plainly, by so 
 doing, we must be losers, and they gainers in 
 everything. I saw that to do so, we must 
 sacrifice a pi-inciple, and we have done so. 
 That state of anarchy which gentlemen have 
 said awaited us, I have never seen. I have 
 never been afraid of the future, in the course 
 we have pursued here. The bowlings of go- 
 betweens have never finghtened me in the 
 least. But, now, inasmuch as it has been 
 determined here to unite upon one Constitu- 
 tion, I shall do all in my power, when it shall 
 come before the people, to secure its adoption; 
 not because, it suits me, but because, under 
 all the circumstances, I shall be disposed to 
 think it the best that can be done. 
 
 Mr. SE COMBE demanded the yeas and 
 nays upon the pending question: Shall the 
 report be ordered to a third reading? and 
 they were ordered, and being taken, resulted 
 — yeas forty-two, nays eight, as follows : 
 
 Teas. — Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Balcombe, 
 Baldwin, Bates, Bartholomew, BoHes, Butler, 
 Cleghorn, Colburn, Coe, Cederstam, Coombs, 
 Duley, Dickerson. Eschlie, Foster, Galbraith, Hay- 
 den, Harding, King, Kemp, Lyle, Mantor, Mc(yann, 
 McClure, Messer, Morgan, Mills, Murphy, North, 
 Phelps, Perkins, Peckham, Russell, Stannard, Fc- 
 combe, Smith, Vaughn, Walker, "Watson and 
 Wilson.— 42. 
 
 Kayi. — Messrs. Billings, Coggswell, Daris, Ger- 
 rish, Hanson, Holley, McKune and Bobbins. — 8. 
 
 So the report was ordered to be read the 
 third time. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. Mr. President: I move 
 to suspend the rules so iar as to allow the 
 report to be read the third time now, by its 
 title. ^ 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. Mr. President: I hope 
 that motion will not prevail. I was so unfor- 
 tunate as not to get in this morning, until 
 quite a large portion of the report had been 
 read through. It seems to me it ought to be 
 read again at large. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. Mr. Pbesi*xt : I hope 
 
 it will be read again. I presume there are 
 others who have not heard it, and that other 
 gentlemen who had heard it, when they come 
 to hear it again will vote differently. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Mr. President: I 
 shaU object to the reading. It will require 
 too much time. This is a dose that has got 
 to go down, and we might as well shut our 
 eyes and open our mouth and take it 
 [Laughter.] 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Mr. President : I certain- 
 ly think this is a question upon which we 
 ought not to be in too much haste about the 
 vote. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair wiU take a 
 division of the question. 
 
 The first question being on a dispensation 
 of the rules so as to admit of the third read- 
 ing now, was carrief^l, and the second ques- 
 tion, " shall the rules be suspended so as to 
 " allow the report to be read by its title ?" 
 was also agreed to. 
 
 The question recurring on the final passage 
 of the report— Mr. COGGSWELL demanded 
 the yeas and nays, and they were ordered. 
 
 Mr. BATES. Mr. President : I have been 
 so unfortunate as not to have heard the read- 
 ing of the report, and I ask, on this account, 
 to be excused fi'om voting on this question. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair wiU enter- 
 tain the gentleman's motion. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Mr. President: I make 
 the point of order, that a majority vote can- 
 not excuse a member from voting. We have 
 a rule requiring every member to vote, and 
 to excuse from voting involves a suspension 
 of the rules. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. It is still the opinion 
 of the Chair that a majority can excuse a 
 member from voting. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I think then, Mr. Presi- 
 dent, the latter part of the rule, as to the 
 time when the motion shall be put, cuts off 
 the present motion. 
 
 Mr. BATES. Mr. President : I would like 
 to know if a man must vote without having 
 ever heard the proposition ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Secretary had 
 not begun to call the roll. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I wUl say, that I hate to 
 vote on this report most awfully myself, and 
 I am therefore, perhaps, the more willing to 
 excuse all I can. 
 
582 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Feiday, August 28. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. Mr. Pbesident: Now 
 that the gentleman has helped us to get up 
 this prescription, I hope he will be willing to 
 help us swallow it. 
 
 The motion to excuse Mr. Bates was re- 
 jected. 
 
 The question on the final passage of the 
 report of the joint committee of Conference 
 was then taken and resulted — ayes forty-two, 
 nays eight, as follows : 
 
 Yeas — Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Baldwin, 
 Bartholomew, Bolles, Butler, Cleghorn, Colburn, 
 Coe, Cederstam, Coombs, Duley, Dickerson, Esch- 
 lie, Foster, Galbraith, Hayden, Harding, King, 
 Kemp, Lyle, Mantor, McCann, McClure, Messer, 
 Morgan, Mills, Murphy, North, Phelps, Perkins, 
 Peckham, Russell, Stannard, Secombe, Smith, 
 Thompson, Vaughn, Walker, Watson, Wilson and 
 Mr. President — 42. 
 
 Nays — Messrs. Billings, Coggswell, Davis, Ger- 
 rish, Hanson, Holley, McKune and Robbins— 8. 
 
 So the report of the committee on Confer- 
 ence was agreed to. 
 
 When Mr. HAYDEN'S name was called, 
 he explained and said: Mr. Pbesident: I 
 have deteniiined to vote Aye here, because I 
 prefer this report to falling back upon the 
 Constitution we have been framing, and there- 
 by involving the submission of two Constitu- 
 tions. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. Mr. Pbesident : I de- 
 sire to make another motion here, to make it 
 show upon the record what has been done. — 
 I move to substitute the Constitution embrac- 
 ed in the report just passed for the several 
 Articles of the Constitution which the Con- 
 vention have heretofore adopted. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL demanded the yeas 
 and nays upon this motion, and they were 
 ordered, and being taken resulted — yeas forty, 
 nays seven, as follows : 
 
 Yeas — Messrs. Aldrich, Anderson, Baldwin, 
 Bartholemew, Bolles, Butler, Cleghorn, Colburn, 
 Coe, Cederstam, Coombs, Duley, Dickerson, Esch- 
 lie, Foster, Galbraith, Hayden, Harding, King, 
 Kemp, Lyle, McCann, McClure, Messer, Morgan, 
 Mills, Murphy, North, Phelps, Perkins, Peckham, 
 Russell, Stannard, Secombe, Smith, Thompson, 
 Vaughn, Walker, Watson and Mr. President — 40. 
 
 Says — Messrs. Billings, Coggswell, Davis, Ger- 
 rish, Uanson, Holley and Robbins — ^7. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Mr. President : the ques- 
 tion arises in my mind whether this is a cor- 
 rect way of proceeding at this time. The idea 
 of substituting a proposition for matter that 
 
 has already passed from us, it seems to me> 
 cannot be according to rule. 
 
 A VOICE. Too late. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Perhaps not. There is yet, 
 perhaps, such a thing as reconsidering what 
 we have heretofore done, and laying it upon 
 the table, according to our rules. But we 
 have already passed various articles of a Con- 
 stitution, and the question is, does this vote 
 repeal what we have thus done ? does not 
 that work stands as the legal Constitution, as 
 far as it goes ? It seems to me that is a ques- 
 tion worth considering. It seems to me it 
 would be in order to reconsider the several 
 votes passing those articles, and then lay 
 them all on the table. That course would 
 place them where they could not be meddled 
 with. But I would first move to reconsider 
 the vote just taken. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Mr. President: I 
 hope that motion will not prevail. I will give 
 my reasons : I regard it, sir; as a fixed fact, 
 that we have made fools of ourselves from the 
 very .commencement down to the present 
 time. We have proceeded in an unparlia- 
 mentary manner time after time, and time 
 after time we have passed solemn votes and 
 then backed out. I propose now, after hav- 
 ing taken this si -.nd, that we stick to it, and 
 swear that we will not back down on this. 
 We have played the back-water trick long 
 enough, it seems to me. I have got sick 
 of it. 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President : I am not 
 in favor of this back-handed work, in the way 
 of accusations against the proceedings of this 
 Convention, alleging that we have been un- 
 parliamentary and all that. Gentlemen 
 should not throw out such assertions. In 
 regard to the present question, I suppose 
 this proceeding is all perfectly correct. As 
 to those reports that have been passed and 
 now superceded, if nothing more is done, 
 with them, they remain just like any other 
 reports that have foiled. This which we have 
 just finally passed, has become the Constitu- 
 tion, and the other cannot become so while 
 this exists. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The Chair will state, 
 that, although reports of the various articles 
 of a Constitution have been passed upon, still 
 the Constitution, as a whole, lias not been 
 finally passdH upon until the last vote was 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, August 28. 
 
 583 
 
 taken. Hence those other former reports are 
 left in an incomplete state, and so amount to 
 nothing. The case is similar to that where a 
 bill goes from one House to the other, and re- 
 mains there untouched. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. If that is the decision of 
 the Chair, I withdraw the motion to recon- 
 sider. 
 
 Mr.SECOMBE. Mr. Pbesidext : It seems 
 to me there is no necessity for going back, 
 but that we have got yet one step further to 
 take in going forward. We have heretofore 
 passed the various readings of the various re- 
 ports of our several standing committees by 
 their titles, as reports. We have now had 
 before us the report of this special commit- 
 tee, and that has been passed upon in the 
 same manner, by its title, as the Report of 
 the Conference Committee. I ask you, sir, if 
 that is the name of the instrument we intend 
 to send abroad ? We have substituted this 
 report for the others ; and now, it seems to 
 me, we should adopt this report as the Con- 
 stitution, and I move, that the report of the 
 Conference committee be adopted as the Con- 
 stitution of the State of Minnesota. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. That was the effect of 
 the last vote. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Mr. Presidext : I will read 
 as a part of my remarks, two resolutions 
 which I think had better be adopted in place 
 of that motion. It is proper that some offi- 
 cial notice should be given to the other body 
 as to the action taken here upon the joint re- 
 port. I doubt whether we had better take 
 the final vote till the who'e thing shall be 
 fully prepared and ready. The resolutions 
 
 are — 
 
 • 
 
 " Resolved, That the report of the committee of 
 Conference, as read the third time and passed by 
 the Convention, is hereby referred to said commit- 
 tee, to be by them carefully compared with the re- 
 port as adopted by the other body ; and that the 
 committee of Conference be instructed to arrange 
 and number the articles of the Constitution in 
 their proper order, and immediately cause the 
 whole Constitution to be correctly enrolled for its 
 due verification and authentication by the Con- 
 vention. 
 
 " Itesolved, That the President of this Conven- 
 tion communicate the fact of the adoption of the 
 report of the committee of Conference, without 
 amendment, and the passage of the above resolu- 
 tion, to the President of the Convention sitting in 
 .the Cpujicil Chamber of the Capitol." 
 
 I have so shaped the first resolution, that 
 the verification of the Constitution by the 
 signatures of members of the Convention, 
 can be done at any time that may be conven- 
 ient. Some gentlemen do not wish, perhaps, 
 to remain to the final adjournment, and this 
 allows us to authenticate by the signatures of 
 those that remain with the officers of the 
 Convention. 
 
 The resolutions were adopted. 
 
 PRINTING OF THE PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN called up the considera- 
 tion of his resolution of yesterday, author- 
 izing the President of this Convention to con- 
 tract for the printing and binding of two 
 thousand copies of the report of the Proceed- 
 ings and Debates of this Convention, &c., by 
 the official Reporter. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. I understand that the res- 
 olution provides for the publication of the De- 
 bates of the Constitutional Convention. I 
 would ask the gentleman from Fillmore (Mr. 
 Colburn) what the object is in publishing 
 debates which have no reference whatever to 
 the Constitution wljich we have adopted. 
 
 Mr. IIAYDEN. I would ask the gentle- 
 man from Olmsted if the subject matter of 
 the various articles in the Constitution we 
 have adopted, or are about to adopt, have not 
 all been discussed in these debates. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. I understand that this 
 report which we have agreed to, and which is 
 the Constitution itself, was got up by the 
 committee of Conference appointed by the 
 two bodies, and not by the Conventions them- 
 selves. We may have discussed articles sim- 
 ilar to them, but to say that our debates have 
 any reference to this Constitution, seems to 
 me to be eiToneous. 
 
 Again, the publication of these reports will 
 cost a large sum. It seems to me that the 
 expenditure is unnecessary. If the gentle- 
 man will move to have the reports of to-day's 
 proceedings printed, I will vote for it, but I 
 shall vote against expending five or six thou- 
 sand dollars for pubUshing matter which has 
 no connection with our Constitution. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I hope we shall have some- 
 thing to show what we have been about all 
 this time. If we do not have these proceed- 
 ings pubUshed the people will not know what 
 we have been doing. (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I believe that nearly 
 
684 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Friday, August 28. 
 
 every member of the Convention is desirous 
 of having the report of our debates printed. 
 
 A similar course has been taken by the 
 body in the other end of the Capitol, and I 
 presume they will not be ashamed of their 
 debates. I will not consume the time of the 
 Convention in discussing this matter, for I 
 presume the mind of every member is made 
 up. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. According to the idea of 
 the gentleman from Olmsted (Mr. Robbins) 
 if a report has been before this body and dis- 
 cussed, and finally a substitute adopted in its 
 place, all the debate upon that report should 
 be excluded from the reported debates. That 
 is a wrong idea. We want to publish our 
 whole proceedings, and give them to the pub- 
 lic eye. The public will then know what has 
 been transpiring here during the six or seven 
 weeks we have been sitting here. I presume 
 the Convention will be nearly unanimous in 
 favor of the publication. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. I beUeve the Convention 
 have decided to-day that they have done noth- 
 ing for the last six or seven weeks. We have 
 done more to-day, than we have done from 
 the time we came here until to-day. Our 
 work heretofore has been nothing at all and I 
 do not approve of the expense of having a 
 report of our work printed. 
 
 Mr. KING. I think it will be nothing but 
 just to order the debates taken down by our 
 reporter, printed. The Convention will re- 
 collect that when the subject of employing a 
 reporter first came up in caucus, some of us 
 opposed it pretty strongly. But some of the 
 friends of the measure got the matter in such 
 a shape as to do away the objection which 
 many of us had, and our reporter was cn\- 
 ployed. Now it would be the most ridiculous 
 thing we have done, after employing a repor- 
 ter, to refuse to put those reports in print. 
 Let those who were so anxious to have our 
 proceedings reported be gratified in seeing their 
 long speeches in print. "Hope deferred 
 maketh the heart sick." Why cut off all hope 
 of seing the great speeches of smart men 
 upon this Constitution I For myself I would 
 not make this speech for the whole five vol- 
 umes which are proposed to be given to mo. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I would bo glad to give 
 the gentleman a reasonable price for his 
 
 speech, and take his five volumes of reports. 
 (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS. I offered an amendment 
 to that resolution yesterday, providing that 
 the surplus copies should be distributed 
 among the several counties in proportion to 
 their respective representation in the Legis- 
 lature. I suggested that amendment, believ- 
 ing it would make the distribution more equi- 
 table throughout the State. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS. I move to strike out the 
 word " President" and insert " Secretary." 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I am satisfied that our 
 President will shrink from no responsibility 
 we may impose upon him, and as he is my 
 choice I am opposed to the amendment. 
 
 The amendments were not agreed to, and 
 the resolution as originally introduced was 
 adopted. 
 
 PAY OF MEMBERS, AC. 
 
 Mr. BILLINGS offered the following res- 
 olution : 
 
 " Besolved,, That the President appoint a com- 
 mittee of three whose duty it shall be to ascertain 
 what discount it will be necessary to make on the 
 script issued to the members and officers of this 
 Convention for tnileage and per diem, for cash at 
 this time, and that an additional amount be allowed 
 to each equal to such discount." 
 
 The resolution was subsequently with- 
 drawn, and Mr. Coggswell renewed it. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I am informed that 
 the other Convention have passed a similar 
 resolution, and after what we have done, that 
 Convention ought to be good authority for 
 anything. 
 
 Mr. PHELPS. I understand that they 
 voted that resolution down. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. Whether they voted 
 it up or down I do not know, but if they have 
 passed it, we ought to pass it, and if they 
 have voted it down, we ought to vote it down 
 — such is my faith in that authority. (Laugh- 
 ter.) We have followed the other Conven- 
 tion from the time of our first coming here, 
 and I prefer now to follow them through to 
 the end. 
 
 On motion of Mr. MANTOR, the resolution 
 was laid on the table. 
 
 ENBOI.LING CONSTITUTION. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN offered the following res- 
 olution — 
 
 " Resolved, That the committee of Conference be 
 justructed to employ a sutliciont number of copy- 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— SATrROAY, August 29. 
 
 585 
 
 ists to enrol the Constitution, and have it prepared 
 for authentication by members of this Convention 
 early to-morrow morning." 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I would enquire 
 what method has been fixed upon, if any, for 
 the authentication of the Constitution. Is it 
 to be by the signatures simply of the Presi" 
 dent and Secretary, or by those of each 
 member ? 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I would enquire if the 
 gentleman would sign the Constitution if he 
 had a chance. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I wiU tell the gentle- 
 man when it is presented to me. I never 
 dodge when the time comes. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. No particular arrange- 
 ment has been adopted, that I know o£ 
 
 The resolution was agreed to. 
 
 ACTHEXTICATION OF THE COSSTITUTION. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN offered the following reso- 
 lution — 
 
 "Besolved, That the President and Secretary of 
 this Convention be authorized and empowered to 
 authenticate the Constitution adopted by this Con- 
 vention by signing the same in their oflScial capa- 
 city." 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I have no objection 
 to that. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move that tha reso- 
 lution be laid on the table. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. KEMP offered the following resolu- 
 tion — 
 
 " JSesolved, That the Constitution as formed by 
 this Convention be authenticated by the signatures 
 of each member of this Convention." 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I move to lay the reso- 
 lution on the table. I understand the com- 
 mittee of Conference have that matter imder 
 consideration. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 SUPPLIES AXD EXPEXDITUBES. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH, from the committee on 
 Supphes and Expenditures made the follow- 
 ing report — ■ 
 
 "Your committee have examined the follow- 
 ing bills presented to them, and find said bills to 
 be correct, and recommend that orders be drawn 
 for the payment of the same : — 
 T. M. Newson & Co., for newspapers fur- 
 nished the members and officers of this 
 
 Convention $481 87 
 
 Minnesota Dutch Zeitung, for newspapers 
 furnished the members and officers of 
 this Convention 61 00 
 
 74 
 
 Owens & Moore, for newspapers furnished 
 and printing done for this Convention. . 1,566 78 
 
 Gustave Leue, for articles furnished the 
 Convention as per bill rendered 30 35 
 
 Von Hamm, agent, for stationery furnish- 
 ed the members as per order of Con- 
 vention 305 00 
 
 Yon Hamm, for stationery furnished the 
 Secretary as per order of Convention. . 52 95 
 
 2,497 9« 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN. I would enquire of the 
 Chairman who made the report, if he can tell 
 us at what rate we are charged for newspa- 
 pers? It strikes me that the sum reported is 
 exhorbitant. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. I am assured by the 
 publishers that they have charged the same 
 that has always been charged to the Legisla- 
 ture, when they have furnished them with 
 papers, and no more. They also state that 
 they have to wait six, twelve, or eighteen 
 months for pay, and that the charge is no 
 more than will make them whole when they 
 receive their pay. 
 
 The report was adopted. 
 
 The PRESIDENT here announced the fol- 
 lowing commimication : 
 
 " Capitol, August 28, 1857. 
 Hon. St. A. D. Balcombe, President : 
 Sir : — I have the honor to communicate to yon 
 the fact that the Convention over which I have the 
 honor to preside has adopted the report of their 
 committee of Conference without amendment or 
 change. 
 
 Very respectfully. 
 
 Your ob't servant, 
 
 H. H. Sibley, President." 
 
 PUBLICATION OF JOUBXAL. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN offered the foUowing res- 
 olution, which was read, considered and agreed 
 to— 
 
 "Sesolved, That the Secretaiy of this Conven- 
 tion be instructed to prepare an exact copy of 
 the Journal of this Convention, and that 2,000 
 copies be printed and disposed of in the same man- 
 ner as the Proceedings and Debates of the Con- 
 vention — and the expense be defrayed in the same 
 manner." 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. LYLE, the 
 Convention adjourned. 
 
 FORTY-SECOND DAY. 
 
 • Satubdav, August 29, 1857. 
 The Convention met at nine o'clock a. m. 
 The journal of yesterday was read and ap- 
 proved. 
 
686 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 29. 
 
 Mr. ALDKICH offered the following reso- 
 lution, which was considered and adopted : 
 
 "Hesolved, That the President of this Convention 
 be and he is hereby authorized to audit the account 
 of T. F. Andrews, the oflScial Reporter of this 
 Convention for reporting the Proceedings and De- 
 biites thereof when the same shall be written out, 
 and prepared for publication, and that he grant 
 his certificate or certificates thereof, attested by 
 the Secretary of this Convention for the payment 
 of the same." 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH offered the following reso- 
 lution, which was considered and agreed to — 
 
 " Besolved, That the President of this Conven- 
 tion be and he is hereby authorized to audit the 
 account of Owens & Moore, the official printers of 
 this body, for all printing they have been instruct- 
 ed to do hereafter — for this Convention, and grant 
 his certificate or certificates thereof attested by 
 the Secretary of this Convention for the pay- 
 ment of the same." 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL offered the following 
 resolution — 
 
 "Besolved, That in making up the expenses of 
 this Convention, the President and Secretary be 
 instructed to allow to each member and ofiicer of 
 the said Convention such additional sum as may 
 be necessary to realize in cash the full amount of 
 their per diem and milage." 
 
 Mr. C. said : — The resolution which I now 
 offer is word for word, like the resolution 
 which the other Convention passed yesterday. 
 It does seem that it is nothing more than 
 right we should receive our full pay. It is 
 well known that it is insufficient to compen- 
 sate us for our tune, trouble and expense. So 
 far as the equity and legality of the thing is 
 concerned, I have no doubt about it at all, 
 and I hope the resolution will be passed 
 unanimously. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I am opposed to that res- 
 olution. I am opposed to it because I think 
 our script in this end of the Capitol is worth 
 twenty-five cents more than theirs. I have 
 no doubt of that, and for my own part I am 
 not willing to take less than one hundred cents 
 on the dollar. I trust the Convention will 
 not pass the resolution. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The resolution having 
 given rise to debate, lies over imder the rules. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I move to suspend 
 the rules so far as to allow the resolution to 
 be considered now. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. DAVIS offered the following rcsolu- 
 tion: 
 
 "Hesolved, That incase the Auditor and Trea- 
 surer refuse to recognize the certificates for 
 services and compensation of the Convention 
 holding its sessions in the west end of the Capitol, 
 and especially that in favor of Willis A. Gorman, 
 that the President, St. A. D. Balcombe, and L. A. 
 Babcock, Secretary of this Constitutional Conven- 
 tion, be authorized to sign the same, and the said 
 Auditor and Treasurer upon presentation of said 
 certificates signed by said Balcombe and Babcock, 
 as aforesaid, be, and are hereby requested to 
 recognise said certificates." 
 
 Mr, SECOMBE moved to lay the resolution 
 upon the table. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN submitted the following : 
 
 "Hesolved, That any member of this Convention 
 whe may not be present to sign the Constitution 
 this day, may sign the same in the office where it 
 shall be deposited for safe keeping, at any time 
 after the adjournment sine die, and before the first 
 day of October next." 
 
 On motion of Mr. COLBURN, the resolu- 
 tion was laid on the table. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN offered the following reso- 
 lution, and moved to suspend the rules to 
 consider the same at the present time, viz : 
 
 "Hesolved, That the President of this Conven- 
 tion be instructed, in auditing the account of the 
 official reporter of this Convention, to allow him 
 in addition to the compensation to which he shall 
 be entitled under the resolution of July 18, 1857, 
 employing him, such additional sum as may be 
 necessary to realize in cash the full amount to 
 which he shall be so entitled as aforesaid without 
 discount." 
 
 The motion to suspend the rule was agreed 
 to. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. I do not know as it is 
 necessary to say anything in regard to this 
 resolution. It is well known that the Con- 
 vention sitting in the other end of the Capitol 
 have passed a similar resolution in regard to 
 their reporter. Simple justice seems to re- 
 quire that we should be as liberal as they are- 
 
 The resolution was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL'S resolution of yester- 
 day, appointing a committee of three to as- 
 certainthe rate of discount on the scrip issued 
 for the per diem and mileage of members, 
 coming up in order — 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE said — I hope the resolution 
 will not be adopted. The act of the Terri- 
 torial Legislature making an appropriation of 
 $30,000 for paying tlic expenses of holding 
 the Constitutional Convention, is definite upon 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satceday, AcorsT 29. 
 
 587 
 
 the point of compensation of members. It is 
 provided that the members and officers pf the 
 Convention shall be entitled to the same pay 
 as members and officers of the Legislative 
 Assembly, and that the payment shall be 
 made in a certain manner — ^by drafts drawn 
 upon the treasury by the President and Sec- 
 retary of the Convention. Now I trust the 
 Convention will not attempt to legislate upon 
 this matter, but will quietly receive what has 
 been provided for them by law. If it should 
 appear, upon the organization of the State 
 government, that the members of the Con- 
 vention had not been paid enough, I think we 
 may rely upon the generosity of the future 
 State. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would enquire, through 
 the chair, if any member has a copy of that 
 act of the Territorial Legislature ? 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. We have twice had an 
 order of this Convention for the printing of 
 two hundred copies of that act. We had a 
 committee appointed to procure a certified 
 copy of the act for the use of the Convention. 
 A copy was obtained and sent to the printer, 
 and yet, after all of our endeavors, we have 
 not been able to procure it laid upon our tables. 
 It seems as if there had been some determi- 
 nation that the act should not come into this 
 Convention. 
 
 The resolution was not agreed to. 
 Mr. ALDRICH offered and put the follow- 
 ing resolution : 
 
 "Hesolved, That the thanks of this Convention 
 be and are hereby tendered to the President, Sec- 
 retary, Reporter, and other oflScers of this body, 
 for the able, faithful and courteous manner in 
 which they have respectively discharged their 
 duties." 
 The resolution was unanimously adopted. 
 Mr. WILSON oflfered the following resolu- 
 tion: 
 
 " Resolved, That the President be instructed to 
 appoint some suitable person or persons to trans- 
 late the Constitution into the German, French, 
 Sweedish, and Norwegian languages, and that the 
 expenses thereof be paid out of the fund appro, 
 priated for defraj-ing the expenses of this Conven- 
 tion." 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. I fliove to amend by in- 
 cluding the Chippewa language, in order to 
 allow those civilized Indians to read the Con- 
 titution. (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. DAVIS. And the Winnebagoes, 
 
 Mr, MESSER. When they become civi- 
 lized they will be able to read the English 
 language. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL. I rise to a point of 
 order. This resolution having given rise to 
 debate, lays over under the rule. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The chau- holds the 
 point of order well taken. 
 
 Mr. WATSON. I move to suspend the 
 rules so far as to allow the resolution to be 
 considered now. 
 
 The motion was agreed to, (two-thirds vo- 
 ting in favor thereof) 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. I hope the resolution will 
 not be passed. We are anxious as a party 
 to do everything we can to poll a large vote 
 this fall, and if we publish this evidence of 
 our M^Y we shall lose a great many votes. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN, The gentleman's argu- 
 ments of to-day and those of yesterday, do 
 not seem to correspond, 
 
 Mr. McKUNE. We are married now — 
 one flesh and blood, one soul and body. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. I believe this is the first 
 time that I have come seriously in conflict 
 with my friend upon my right (Mr. McKune.) 
 He certainly has good grit, and maintains his 
 consistency, but he is a little like the native 
 of the forest, who stood so straight that he 
 leaned over the other way. It foUowa as a 
 matter of necessity, from what we have done, 
 that we should pass this resolution. 
 The resolution was agreed to. 
 And then, on motion of Mr. MANTOR, the 
 Convention took a recess of one hour. 
 
 At the expiration of the hour the Conven- 
 tion was called to order by the President, 
 
 Mr. WILSON offered the following resolu- 
 tion, which was read, considered and agreed 
 to: 
 
 "Resolved, That John H. Gowax, Assistant Ser- 
 geant-at-Arms to the Convention, be allowed the 
 sum of fifty dollars for extra services by him per- 
 formed, and for sums of money by him, paid to 
 procure necessary assistance in the performance 
 of his duties as Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms." 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH offered the following reso- 
 lution, which was read, considered and 
 agreed to. 
 
 Resolved, That the President and Secretary of 
 this Convention are hereby authorized and in- 
 structed to audit and draw orders to defray all con- 
 tingent expenses which shall arise after the 
 adjournment, and which have been authorized 
 
588 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satuedat, August 29. 
 
 during the session of the Convention, and not 
 otherwise provided for." 
 
 THE CONSTITUTION ENROLLED. 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH, from the joint commit- 
 tee of Conference, submitted their final joint 
 report of the enrolled Constitution in writing 
 as follows : 
 
 " The joint committee of the two Conventions 
 appointed to agree upon and submit one Constitu- 
 tion to be submitted to the people of the State of 
 Minnesota for ratification or rejection, would re- 
 spectfully report, that, in accordance with the 
 instructions to said committee, they have enrolled 
 and now report a copy of the Constitution care- 
 fully compared, and identical with the copy here- 
 tofore reported by the committee and adopted by 
 the two Conventions, are now ready for ratifica- 
 tion by the Conventions. 
 
 M. SHERBURNE, Ghairman. 
 
 L. K. Stannakd, Sec'y. 
 
 JOSEPH R. BROWN, 
 W. HOLCOMBE, 
 W. W. KINGSBURY, 
 THOS. J. GALBRAITH, 
 CYRUS ALDRICH, 
 CHARLES McCLURE." 
 
 The Constitution as thus reported enrolled, 
 appears in the Appendix. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE offered the foUowing reso- 
 lution : 
 
 " Besolved, That the enrolled report of the com- 
 mittee of Conference be adopted by this Conven- 
 tion as the Constitution of the State of Minnesota." 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. What occasion is there 
 for such a motion ? Did we not virtually do 
 that yesterday ? 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The report of the 
 committee of Conference was substituted for 
 the previous reports which have been hereto- 
 fore adopted by the Convention. 
 
 The resolution was agreed to. 
 
 On motion of Mr. SECOMBE, the three 
 resolutions, relating to the manner and time 
 of authenticating the Constitution, which had 
 been laid on the the table, were taken up for 
 consideration. 
 
 The resolutions, as heretofore reported, 
 were read. 
 
 Mr. BATES. I would enquire if the com- 
 mittee of Conference have made any recom- 
 mendation as to the manner of authenticating 
 the Constitution V 
 
 Mr. McCLURE, I understand that the 
 other Convention intend to authenticate it by 
 the signature of each member, and if any 
 members are absent, that they will pass a 
 
 resolution authorizing such members to add 
 their names hereafter. 
 
 The resolution authorizing the authentica- 
 tion by the signature of each member, was 
 adopted. 
 
 Mr. CLEGHORN'S resolution, authorizmg 
 absent members to sign the Constitution in 
 the office of the Secretary of State, at any 
 time before the first day of October being 
 read — 
 
 Mr. COLBURN said :— WiU it be possible 
 to do that after the Constitution is deposited ? 
 If a member should go the Secretar'y office 
 who is an entire stranger to the Secretary, 
 he would have to prove his identity, even if he 
 could get access to the Constitution. I do 
 not think this Convention can control the 
 Constitution after it is deposited with the 
 Secretary. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. There is a mutual un- 
 derstanding that a resolution of the like 
 import to this, shall be passed by both 
 Conventions. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I do not believe silch a 
 resolution will amount to anything. I do not 
 believe the Secretary will allow individuals to 
 sign the Constitution in that way. After it 
 has gone out of the hands of the Convention 
 it is no longer subject to the control of the 
 Convention. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH. In examining the reports 
 of the Ohio Constitutional Convention, I find 
 a resolution in these words : 
 
 " Resolved, That the foregoing Constitution be 
 signed by the President and Secretary, and that 
 the members now present proceed to sign the same 
 in attestation thereof, and that the members who 
 are absent have the privilege of signing it in the 
 office of the Secretary of State at any time be- 
 tween this and the first day of September next," 
 
 I think there will be no difficulty in absent 
 members signing it, whenever they may be in 
 the city hereafter. 
 
 The resolution was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD offered the following 
 resolution, which was read, considered and 
 agreed to : 
 
 "Besolved, That if this Constitution be adopted 
 by the people, that the Governor of this Territory 
 be, and he is hereby requested to have a copy 
 thereof transcribed on parchment, with the signa- 
 tures attached, for preservation in the archives of 
 Btate." 
 
 Mr, MANTOR offered the following resolu- 
 
MINNESOTA CON'VENTION DEBATES— Satcbday, Acgfst 29. 
 
 589 
 
 tioQ, which was read, considered and agreed 
 to:— 
 
 " Jiesohed, That Wm. Shelley, Messenger of 
 this Convention, be allowed fifty dollars for extra 
 services rendered to the same." 
 
 Mr. HAYDEN moved that after the Presi- 
 dent and Secretary had signed the Constitu- 
 tion, that the members should be called in 
 alphabetical order to sign the same. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD offered the following res- 
 olution, which was read, considered and 
 agreed to : 
 
 "Besohed, That the Sergeant-at-Arms of this 
 Convention be allowed seventy-five dollars for 
 extra services done for this Convention." 
 
 Mr. GERRISH offered the following: 
 
 " Bisolved, That the members of this Conven- 
 tion, each, receive the sum of seventy-five dollars, 
 as extra pay." 
 
 The resolution was rejected. ' 
 
 Mr. COGGS WELL. I move to re-consider 
 the vote by which the resolution was rejected. 
 "We have already voted extra pay to certain 
 officers of this Convention. Now under the 
 act passed at the extra session, if we have 
 the right to grant extra pay to any of the of- 
 ficers of this Convention, we have the right 
 to grant extra pay to ourselves. I propose 
 to go the whole figure. If the one is right, 
 the other is right. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. The resolutions we 
 have passed, giving extra compensation, state 
 that it is given in consideration of extra servi- 
 ces, and extra expenses. 
 
 The resolution was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL offered the foUowing 
 resolution : 
 
 "Jiesolved, That the members of this Conven- 
 tion receive the sum of fifty dollars each, for extra 
 services." 
 
 Mr. C. said: So far as I am concerned, I 
 have no objection to allowing officers of this 
 Convention extra pay, if they have performed 
 extra services. They have, in my opinion, 
 performed extra services ; and, therefore, I 
 do not object to the resolutions which have 
 been passed. But while I admit that the of- 
 ficers of this Convention have performed extra 
 services, I know that the members of the 
 Convention have. I do not guess at that. 
 During the whole ot this warfare, from the 
 time we came here at midnight, I know it has 
 
 been a constant train of extra services — ser- 
 vices which never have been performed by 
 any Constitutional body, from the foundation 
 of the government down to the present time. 
 We came here at the dead hour of the night ; 
 we slept here night after night, and went 
 hungry and tired as dc^ ; and not only that, 
 but we have performed extra services in other 
 respects. And it does seem to me that we 
 are entitled to extra pay. For that reason, I 
 hope we shall not show this favoritism to our 
 officers — whose conduct has certainly been 
 praiseworthy — ^and neglect to do justice to 
 ourselves. 
 
 The PRESIDENT. The resolution having 
 given rise to debate, will lie over one day. 
 
 Mr. STANNARD. I move a suspension of 
 the rules, so far as to allow its consideration 
 now. 
 
 The motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS moved that the Convention 
 take a recess until half-past two o'clock, 
 which motion was not agreed to. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I would inquire how long 
 it will be before it will be in order to proceed 
 to sign the Constitution. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I understand that the 
 Secretary has sent for a sheet of parchment, 
 on which to make the signatm-es. 
 
 And then, on motion of Mr. ROBBINS, 
 the Convention took a recess imtil half-past 
 two o'clock. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 The Convention was called to order pursu- 
 ant to adjournment. 
 
 The President and Secretary of the Con- 
 vention severally attached their signatures to 
 the Constitution, after which the members of 
 the Convention, as their names were called 
 in alphabetical order, came forward and signed 
 the same. 
 
 Mr. ROBBINS offered the following resolu- 
 tion : 
 
 " Resolved, That the sum of seventy -five dollars 
 be and is hereby allowed to Johx Q. A. Wakd, for 
 extra services as Assistant Secretary of this Con- 
 vention." 
 
 Mr. COGGSWELL moved to amend by 
 inserting after "Ward," the words, "and 
 " also to each member of this Convention." 
 
 The amendment was not agreed to, and the 
 resolution was adopted. 
 
590 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satubdat, August 29. 
 
 PAY OP MEMBERS AND OFFICERS. 
 
 Dr. DAVIS. I would inform this Con- 
 vention that Mr. Mills and myself just 
 walked down into the Treasurer's office and 
 presented our certificates. The Treasurer 
 politely told us that they wouid not recog- 
 nize certificates coming from this body. I 
 make tliis statement to relieve members from 
 the necessity of making a journey down 
 there for nothing. I told him, however, we 
 should be happy soon to put a good Republi- 
 can in his place, who would recognize these 
 certificates. 
 
 Mr. NORTH introduced the following reso- 
 lution : 
 
 "Sesohed, That the Convention respectfully re- 
 quest the Territorial Treasurer to pay all certifi- 
 cates of the members of either Convention, as 
 well as those signed by H. II. Siblky, as Presi- 
 dent, and J. J. Noah, as Secretary, as those signed 
 by St. A. D. Balcombe, as President, and L. A. 
 Babcock, as Secretary." 
 
 I hope, said Mr. NORTH, that we, as mem- 
 bers of this Convention, will continue to 
 maintain our honor, and let the people of this 
 Territory see the contrast between the two 
 Conventions, if there is any, and if there is 
 not any, then all is well. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I hope the resolution will 
 be adopted. When the Constitutional Con- 
 vention, composed of a majority of duly 
 elected members thereof, sitting in this Hall, 
 agreed to descend from their position, so far 
 as to meet the seceding members and to ap- 
 point a committee of Conference to agree 
 upon one Constitution, I say it was a part of 
 the terms of that compromise, tacitly under- 
 stood, that the other body should not avail 
 themselves of the fact that the Territorial 
 Treasurer was of their party, and that they 
 would not control him, and refuse to pay the 
 members and officers of this Convention. In 
 violation of that tacit understanding, and in 
 a spirit characteristic of all their transactions 
 connected with this body, they have now in- 
 structed their Treasurer, as we have reason 
 to think, to refuse to recognize ^the certifi- 
 cates of this Convention. The Secretary 
 tells us Hot that " I " but that " we " refuse 
 to recognize the certificates. Who is " we ? " 
 The Territorial Treasurer, and those behind 
 him — the Democratic party, the power behind 
 the throne. We, a majority, conceded every- 
 thing. We agreed to meet them upon an 
 
 equal footing, and all they gave in return was 
 to say that their officers should do what they 
 are bound by law to do. I am willing to go 
 to the people upon the small issue they are 
 raising, and the people will take care that the 
 next Treasurer will pay the members and of- 
 ficers of their Constitutional Convention, 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE. I hope the resolution will 
 not be adopted. This Convention has noth- 
 ing whatever to do with the matter. There 
 has been boys play, and fool's play enough at 
 the other end of the Capitol about this sub- 
 ject. The legisla ture have provided the means 
 of paying the members of the Constitutional 
 Convention, and having provided just what 
 shall be paid and just how it shall be paid, 
 this Convention has no power to change the 
 matter in the least. Now, gentlemen may 
 think that by passing such a resolution as this, 
 we will be taking the wind out of the sails of 
 gentlemen in the other end of the capitol. We 
 will do it more eifectually by passing the 
 matter ^over in silence. We will present to the 
 officer of the Territory, whose duty it is to 
 pay members their per diem and mileage, the 
 proper certificates, authenticated in^ the pro- 
 per manner, which the law says shall be suffi- 
 cient evidence to the treasurer of the claim of 
 each member, and let him and his party take 
 the responsibility of refusing to pay them — a 
 thing which they have announced officially 
 that they will do. The Attorney General of 
 the Territory, claming a seat in the west end 
 of the Capitol, announces boldly, " I know 
 the Treasurer of this Territory will not recog- 
 nize the organization over which Mr. Bal- 
 combe presides." How docs he know it ? He 
 is the legal adviser of that Treasurer, and 
 there is a pretty violent presumption that if 
 he " knows " it, it is because he has beaten it 
 into the Treasurer, and has enforced the in- 
 structions, given when the resolution was 
 passed in the other end of the Capitol advis- 
 ing all officers to refuse to recognize us. I 
 hope we shall go about our business and not 
 bother with his boy's play which was com- 
 menced at the^other end. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I hope the resolution will 
 pass. I presume there is not a member of 
 this Convention but what regards the other 
 Convention as illegal ; as a Convention not 
 properly organized for framing a Constitution 
 for Minnesota. But this Convention prefers 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 29. 
 
 691 
 
 anarchy to confusion ; that there should be 
 one Constitution submitted to the people, be- 
 cause it is for their interest, in a social, in a 
 pecuniary, and in every point of view. 
 
 For that reason we have condescended to 
 treat with them as equals, under an implied 
 and express understanding that the members 
 of both bodies should have their pay. Now 
 I am in favor of this Convention carrying out 
 that understanding, in its full spirit, and to 
 the letter. However meanly others may act, 
 I trust this Convention will continue to do as 
 heretofore, and act upon honorable principles, 
 and see that nothing mean creaps into our 
 transactions. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. I am in favor of this res- 
 olution from the simple fact that we entered 
 into the arrangement in good faith, having a 
 majority of all the members elected to the 
 Constitutional Convention. I am in favor of 
 it, from the fact that we are to adjourn in a 
 short time, and it may be possible that the 
 members holding sessions in the other end of 
 the Capitol may circulate reports that we, the 
 majority, had ordered the Treasurer not to 
 pay them. [Laughter.] As we are the majority 
 and they the minority, we ought to spread 
 the fact upon the record that we are in favor 
 of paying them. Although we think a great 
 many of their members bogus, yet, at the 
 same time by joining in the appointment of a 
 conference committee, and by passing the 
 same Constitution, we have recognized them, 
 as well as they ns. 
 
 Now, I have ascertained satisfactoriily, at 
 least so far as my own judgment is concerned, 
 why the President of the Convention in the 
 other end of the Capitol (Mr. Sibley,) has so 
 tenaciously refused to sign the same identical 
 paper, with the President of this body, (Mr. 
 St. a. D. Balcombe.) It will be remem- 
 bered that the mother of the President of this 
 Convention has made of him what no earthly 
 power could make of the presiding officer in 
 the other end of the Capitol — ^has made of him 
 a " Saint." Now it may be that the Pres- 
 ident in the other end, has great and rever- 
 ential awe for the name " Saint " and that he 
 would not place his name upon the same pa- 
 per, feeling his littleness and nothingness. 
 Now sir, I must confess that I admire his 
 taste; that it would not look well; that it 
 would be undignified and irrevcrential to put 
 
 the name " Sibley " before the name " Saint;" 
 and to place it after, would be an awful fall 
 from " Saint " to " Sibley," [laughter], and I 
 have actually come to the conclusion, if I were 
 in his place, I would do exactly as he has 
 done. 
 
 Under all the circumstances, therefore, I 
 think it is right that we shall pass a resolu- 
 tion informing our finends in the other end of 
 the Capitol that we are willing that they should 
 have their pay. 
 
 Mr. MANTOR. I hope the resolution will 
 not pass. I am convinced that the compro- 
 mise committee from the other Hall, or some 
 of them, at least, intend to carry out the com- 
 mon understanding which was had when that 
 committee was appointed, — that the certifi- 
 cates from both wings of the Capitol should 
 be recognized. It is not ten minutes since 
 Judge Shebbcrnte proclaimed publicly that all 
 the members of this Convention are of right 
 entitled to their pay, and that he should de- 
 nounce any other course. I do not feel that 
 there is any great necessity for the passage of 
 this resolution. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN, Before I vote, I desire 
 to know the correctness of certain statements 
 which have been made here, and elsewhere. 
 It has been stated by the gentleman from 
 Rice coimty (Mr. North,) and by others, 
 that there was a general understanding upon 
 the part of the committee of Conference that 
 there would be no objection to members of 
 this Convention receiving their pay, and that 
 their certificates would be recognized. Now 
 if there was an agreement or understand- 
 ing, well founded in that committee, though 
 not exactly put in form, that the Treas- 
 urer would recognize the certificates signed 
 by our President and Secretary, then it 
 may be that this resolution is proper 
 enough. If there has been no vmderstand- 
 ing of that kind, nothing to found this resolu- 
 tion upon, I say it should not be passed. 
 They cannot, with any degree of consistency, 
 accuse us of bad faith unless there has been 
 an agreement of that kind to fulfill. If they 
 accuse us of bad Mth in this matter, without 
 an agreement, they will also in other matters. 
 If there has been an agreement, I would like 
 to have the members of the committee tell us 
 what it was. 
 
 Mr. "VVILSON. I hope no such resolution 
 
592 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 29. 
 
 will pass. It is a fact, well understood by us 
 here, that the Territorial Treasurer has re- 
 fused to recognize our certificates. I am 
 wilHng to leave it there. It is but a contin- 
 uation of the consummate meanness which 
 has characterised the other body, ever since 
 the organization of this Convention. I am 
 willing to go before the people with the issue 
 they present. I hope the resolution will be 
 laid upon the table, and that we shall treat 
 the whole thing with the contempt it de- 
 serves. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I wish to understand from 
 the committee if there was any such agree- 
 ment? 
 
 Mr. GALBRAITH. As to whether this 
 resolution pass or not, I care not. There is 
 connected with this subject, what I consider 
 a matter of honor, and as sacred as the mar- 
 riage vow. It is true, fully true, that in the 
 discussion of this subject by the committee, 
 with the intention of inserting a provision in 
 reference to it, into the Schedule of this Con- 
 stitution, that the committee found such a 
 course impracticable. That there was, in 
 that committee, an honorable understanding 
 that there should be no question raised as to 
 the paying the members, and all the expenses 
 of this Convention, I assert here. It is 
 known to every member of that committee, 
 and in my opinion, that agreement is more 
 sacred than if it had been in writing. To 
 violate it, is a sacrifice of plighted honor. I 
 shall never, so help me God, appeal to the 
 Treasurer of this Territory to decide whether 
 I have served in this Convention or not. My 
 constituents will decide that for me, and our 
 constituents are the proper parties to appeal 
 to. They will see that a proper person is 
 placed there to do their will. I ask not the 
 charity of that body. If they choose to vio- 
 late as solemn and as honorable a compact as 
 could be made, let them do it, and let them 
 shoulder the responsibility. The voice of the 
 press and the voice of living men will give a 
 true history of the transaction and of the 
 facts which have transpired here. We are 
 ready for the battle. If the compact is to be 
 broken on a quibble, let it be broken, and wo 
 Avill go to the country on the issue. Wc are 
 ready loaded to the muzzle. I ask nothing 
 but what is fair, and I know this Convention 
 will not. We have acted honorably. Every 
 
 letter of the compact has been fulfilled on 
 our part, to the dot of an " i," and the cross 
 of a "t." There is the Constitution reported 
 by the joint committee of the two bodies. 
 There is the fact staring the'world in the face, 
 that we are members of this Constitutional 
 Convention. I wish to cast reflections upon 
 no individuals of that body. I will not do so. 
 And I do not believe that one member of the 
 committee upon the part of either body will 
 ever, in word or deed, do any act which will 
 violate the sacred, honorable compact, which 
 was made between them. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. Mr. President : It seems 
 to me that this resolution has been discussed 
 in rather a singular manner. I am happy to. 
 hear it, however, for it is a matter that needs 
 to be talked over ; but I had not supposed it 
 would produce the discussion which has been 
 predicated upon it. I fuUy agree with the 
 gentleman fi-om Scott county as to the char- 
 acter of the conduct of the seceding members. 
 But the object of the resolution is not to cast 
 censure, or encomiums upon anybody, but 
 to put this Convention right upon the record, 
 and to show that they are in favor of keeping 
 good faith, regardless of what others may do. 
 We are told that this arrangement about pay 
 was fairly understood as] part of the agree- 
 ment by which one Constitution has been 
 produced and signed. I want simply to 
 carry out that agreement, and then if the 
 other party to this agreement wish to break 
 faith and act meanly in the premises, let them 
 have the full credit of it. This Convention 
 stands fair in all their proceedings, and that 
 their fidelity and , good faith in this matter 
 may stand fair upon the record, I desire this 
 resolution to pass. 
 
 Mr. WILSON. Mr. President: I think 
 my friend from Rice county does not look at 
 this matter with as much discrimination as he 
 usually displays. Now, sir, what power have 
 wc to order a Territorial Treasurer to receive 
 or not to receive any paper whatever ? There 
 are the laws of this Territory, regulating the 
 duties of all Territorial oflBcers. By these 
 laws the whole Territory is governed. There 
 stands the whole of this matter. 
 
 As to putting ourselves upon the record, 
 we are upon the record now, sir. We have 
 already acted in such a manner as to be well 
 understood. 
 
MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— SATCBOAr, August 29. 
 
 593 
 
 There is a law of the Territorial Legislature, 
 as I am informed by those having correct 
 knowledge of the fact, which makes these 
 certificates evidence of debt. The resolution 
 then, which has been adopted in the other 
 wing of the Capitol can amount to nothing 
 more than an expression of the wish of those 
 insisting upon it ; and when in obedience to 
 that resolution, certain Territorial officers re- 
 fuse to recognize our certificates, it shows 
 only that those officers are the creatures of 
 that Convention, or they would not do their 
 bidding in violation of law. Is the Territorial 
 Treasurer in any way responsible to this 
 body ? I say he is not. I do not wish to 
 impute anything wrong to the Territorial 
 Treasurer. I never saw the man ; but I will 
 say, with reference to this compromise and 
 his connection wit^ it, that I expected punic 
 faith when I went into it. But for men to act 
 meanly in a case where their meanness is 
 sure to rebound and rest upon their own 
 heads — I confess I did not expect that. 
 
 A majority of the members sitting in the 
 other end, know that they are not the legal 
 Constitutional Convention of Minnesota. 
 
 Many of them came in here and owned it 
 themselves, that' they were soma twelve or 
 fifteen less in number than we ; and they put 
 the legality of their acts upon the ground, that 
 a Constitution formed by any number of del- 
 egates — if not more than ten in number — and 
 ratified by a majority of the people, becomes 
 a legal Constitution. But the initiative of the 
 compromise was taken by them. It was 
 upon their urgent soUcitation that we went 
 into conference with them. They urged and 
 solicited outside and inside. They insisted 
 and plead with us, for the love of the powers 
 above, and the fear of ruin, to unite with 
 them upon one Constitution, that all might be 
 right. TVe acquiesed. We gave them a com- 
 mittee. That committee have agreed upon 
 one Constitution, and we have adopted and 
 signed it. I km credibly informed sir, and 
 who does not know, that where a Constitu- 
 tution is adopted between two parties the 
 very act of its adoption shows the equal mem- 
 bership of both parties. And now for them 
 to come up at the last with such consummate 
 childish meanness, and talk about not paying 
 members sent here by the people of Minne- 
 sota ; I will not follow after them sir. I shall I 
 75 
 
 never offer to the Territorial Treasurer my 
 certificate. I will go home and tell mj- con- 
 stituents, who sent me here, of this contempt 
 of the law and of them ; how I was not 
 recognized as a member of this Convention 
 — not entitled to pay ; and I will rest it there. 
 I hope the resolution may not be passed. 
 
 A point of order was here interposed under 
 the rule forbidding the discussion of a pro- 
 position the same day it is offered, and, on 
 motion by Mr. Stannaed, the rule was sus- 
 pended so as to admit of the consideration of 
 of the resolution. 
 
 •Mr. COGGS^YELL. Mr. Pbesidext: I 
 am remarkably cool, for me, at the present 
 time ; and it seems to me as though there was 
 no particular necessity for our getting excited 
 in regard to this matter at all. For my part, 
 I am opposed to the passage of this resolu- 
 tion, first ; for the reason, that I do not think 
 it would amount to anything if it were passed. 
 It is simply attempting to instruct an officer 
 to perform what the law requires of him • 
 and such attempts have been voted down by 
 this Convention heretofore. Secondly; as a 
 member of this Convention, I do not expect 
 to derive my pay from the Treasury of Min- 
 nesota Territory. 
 
 I know there was a tacit understanding 
 with reference to this matter of pay between 
 the members of the Conference committee ; 
 but I care nothing about that understanding 
 or agreement. The gentleman from Scott 
 County (Mr. Galbraith) and other gentle- 
 men complain that that agreement has been 
 violated. Now, Mr. Pkesident : if that agree- 
 ment has been violated, it is just what we 
 might expect from that quarter. It was only 
 what has been continually practiced by that 
 body ever since the thirteenth day of last 
 July. It is not the first time they have vio- 
 lated agreements and openly insulted parties 
 treating with them. Sir, you remember, on 
 a certain occasion, they agreed not to attempt 
 to organize this Convention until twelve o'clock 
 M., on the thirteenth of July inst., and we 
 know how they violated that agreement, by 
 coming in and attempting to organize nine- 
 teen minutes before the time. We know also 
 how one of our members has been most bru- 
 tally assaulted by one of them. We know 
 this is not the one-hundredth part of the 
 amount of insult that has been heaped upon 
 
594 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Saturday, August 29. 
 
 this Convention ; and it seems to me that it 
 comes rather late in the day for gentlemen to 
 undertake now to assert their manhood and 
 say that they will not yield themselves to be 
 insulted any longer. 
 
 Sir, from the first, I have had no confidence 
 in that body of men. I can have no confi- 
 dence in any of their views — no confidence 
 in any of their stool-pigeons, in any of the 
 men under their control. Sir, I would scorn 
 to ask their Treasurer for my pay — ask such 
 a man to do his duty ! But if we are to de- 
 rive our pay from the Territorial Treasury — 
 a thing which I deny — I say the act of the 
 Legislature is very plain and explicit in re- 
 gard to what the duty of the Treasurer is ; 
 and any instructions we might give him would 
 amount to nothing. The fifth section of that 
 act says : 
 
 "The compensation herein provided for the 
 members, officers, and Secretaries, shall be certi- 
 fied by the presiding officer, and attested by the 
 Secretary." 
 
 This has been done, sir. Our certificates 
 have been signed by the President and attest- 
 ed by the Secretary, " as well as all claims for 
 "stationery, printing, and all other incidental 
 "expenses, which said certificates, when so 
 " certified, shall be sufficient evidence to the 
 " Territorial Treasurer of each persons claim." 
 
 Now, sir, that is the law. These certifi- 
 cates having been signed by the President of 
 this Convention, and attested by the Secre- 
 tary here, whenever they are presented to the 
 Territorial Treasurer, the law makes it his 
 duty to recognize and pay them, and if he 
 sees fit to refuse to perform the duty thus 
 imposed upon him by law, then I want noth- 
 ing better wherewith to go before the people 
 ot the Territory, to show him associated with 
 those in the other end of the building in this 
 low, mean, contemptible piece of conduct. 
 Sir, it will strengthen the Republican ticket 
 everywhere in this Territory; it will add 
 immensely to the ranks of the Republican 
 party. And then, if, with all this, we do our 
 <jQty — if we select proper men and place 
 them before the people for our Representatives 
 in Congress, our rights will come, at last, to 
 be respected, and we shall derive our pay on 
 these certificates, not in the paper-rags of the 
 Territorial Treasury, but in the gold and silver 
 of the Federal Treasury ; for, in my judg- 
 
 ment, the Congress of the United States, 
 knowing these facts, would not foUow the 
 example of this illustrious Territorial Treasu- 
 rer, and refuse to audit and pay the accounts 
 of members here. 
 
 It is for these reasons, Mr. Peesident, that 
 I say, if these men want to repudiate the 
 claim for compensation of the members of 
 this Convention, and violate the tacit under- 
 standing and agreement made with our Con- 
 vention, I am perfectly ready and perfectly 
 willing, if they take the responsibility, to 
 herald the fact to the people, who are the 
 ultimate arbiters and judges of this matter. 
 
 That is the way I feel. Hence I can see 
 no necessity of our passing any resolution in 
 the case. If the Territorial officers do not 
 see fit to regard the law, they will not regard 
 our instructions. 
 
 The other body have said we did not recog- 
 nize them. I have not recognized them. I 
 have been opposed to this conference from 
 the very beginning. As an individual, I took 
 the responsibility of that course of action, 
 and asked no man to share it with me. I 
 have endeavored to take a straight forward 
 course since I came here. I have endeavored 
 to discharge my duty under the law. I stand 
 here with a clear conscience, and a few dollars 
 cannot now cause me to change my mind. 
 
 I hope every member of this Convention 
 will, at the present time, assert so much of 
 the instinctive dignity of men as to say noth- 
 ing. If the other party want to act the dog, 
 let them do it, but, for God's sake, let us not 
 stoop to the same degrading level with them. 
 These are my views, and I make no bones 
 about expressing them. 
 
 Mr. McCLURE. Mr. Pbesident : I rise to 
 request my friend from Rice county, (Mr. 
 NoBxn,) to withdraw his resolution, and let 
 us have no more discussion upon it. There 
 is no question about the law giving the right 
 of members of both bodies their pay. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I should be most happy to 
 accommodate my friend from Goodhue, Mr_ 
 Pbesident, if I did not think it involved a 
 question of some importance. There has 
 been a compromise, which has been fairly 
 entered into, and this resolution is simply 
 saying to the other party, that we propose to 
 take no advantage by departing from the 
 strict line of the agreement we have mado 
 
MINNESOTA CONTENTION DEBATES— Satcbday, Augcst 29. 
 
 595 
 
 vrith them, notwithstanding their course, as 
 well as the fact that we are obliged to regard 
 a large number of them as bogus members. 
 
 I would respectfully suggest again, Mr. 
 Pbesidext, that nearly all the speeches made 
 upon this resolution have been as wide of its 
 object as they could be. It does seem to be 
 a matter of some consequence that we should 
 put ourselves right upon the record, and show 
 our purpose to maintain good faith in this 
 matter. If gentlemen differ with me, and 
 are determined that the resolution shall not 
 go upon the record, let them vote it down. 
 
 [Question, question.] 
 
 It seems to me, Mr. Pbesidext, that after 
 listening to half-hour speeches in opposition, 
 I might be heard in explanation. [Go on.] 
 
 Mr. PHELPS. Mr. President : I hope the 
 gentleman wiU go on with his remarks. 
 
 Mr. NORTH. I do not wish to go on. 
 
 Mr. COLBURN. Mr. Pbesidext : There 
 was one remark made by the gentleman on 
 my left, which I do not understand. I under- 
 stood him to say there was no member of the 
 Conference committee from the other Conven- 
 tion, disposed to act in bad faith. If I under- 
 stood the remark, I have this to say : I want 
 gentlemen to remember, that on yesterday 
 afternoon, a resolution was introduced by 
 Gov. GoBM AX, as insulting toward every mem- 
 ber of this body as it well could be. It was 
 simply this: Advising the Treasurer to ac- 
 knowledge and pay our certificates, provided 
 that we should first go and get Mr. Siblet to 
 sign them. Gentlemen should also bear in 
 mind this fact, that Judge Sherbubxe, a man 
 whom we have all looked upon as one of the 
 most worthy members of that body, stood up 
 and stated that he was in favor of the sub- 
 stance of Go BM ax's resolution. Yet we have 
 been told, that no member of that joint com- 
 mittee is disposed to act in bad faith. I do 
 not wish to occupy time ; but I would have 
 gentlemen consider these facts ; that men 
 who would seem fair and honorable in their 
 personal correspondence with us, are willing, 
 on occasion, to treat us in the most insulting 
 manner. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Mr. Pbesidext : I heard 
 the remark of Judge Shebbcbxe. He repre- 
 sented himself in favor of the substance, 
 thought the intention good, but did not like 
 the terms in which it was expressed. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. Mr. Pbesidext : I heard 
 the same remark. The impression I received 
 was, that Judge Shebbubxe was in favor of 
 the substance of that resolution so far as it 
 would intimate, that we ought to receive our 
 pay as well as them. The idea was, that 
 they should, by some appropriate resolution, 
 intimate to the oflBcers holding the purse, that 
 the certificates of the members of this Con- 
 vention should be recognized. 
 
 A TOICE. I would ask whether the reso- 
 lution was passed. 
 
 Mr. PERKINS. I understand the resolu- 
 tion did not pass. 
 
 Mr. NORTH'S resolution was then adopted 
 on a division — aflBrmative twenty, negative, 
 fifteen. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Mr. Pbesidext: I wish to 
 offer the following preamble and resolution at 
 this time: 
 
 "Whereas, When this Constitutional Conven- 
 Tention, embracing a majority of the duly elected 
 delegates, agreed to meet in conference with the 
 seceding minority Convention, in the adoption of 
 one Constitution, it was part of the terms of com- 
 promise, fairly understood, that the Democratic 
 accounting officers should not refuse, as had been 
 threatened, to acknowledge and pay the members 
 and officers of this Convention ; 
 
 "AxD Whereas, It appears, on the testimony of 
 members of this body, that the Treasurer of the 
 Territory, G. W. Arustroxg, refuses, in violation 
 of law, to pay the certified accounts of the mem- 
 bers and officers of this Constitutional Convention, 
 on the ground alleged by him to members of this 
 Convention, that ' we (to quote his own words) do 
 not recognize those certificates;' therefore, in 
 view of these facts, 
 
 "Esxolved, That the violation of honor and faith 
 on the part of the Democratic minority Conven- 
 tion, implied by this action of their creature, the 
 Territorial Treasurer, should receive, and we 
 doubt not will receive, the condemnation of all 
 honorable men; and we appeal to the people of 
 Minnesota to rectify the wrong of this action of a 
 partizan Territorial officer, the appointee of a par- 
 tizan Governor, acting under the influenc^of a 
 partizan Convention.'" 
 
 On motion of Mr. COGGSWELL, the 
 preamble and resolution were indefinitely 
 postponed. 
 
 FIXAL ADJOmXTTEXT. 
 
 Mr. SECOMBE moved that the Convention 
 adjourn, sitie die. 
 
 Mr. ALDRICH suggested the propriety of 
 of closing the proceedings of the Convention 
 with ' prayer, and called upon the delegat« 
 
696 
 
 MINNESOTA CONVENTION DEBATES— Satubday, August 29. 
 
 from Mower county, (Mr. Phelps) to perform 
 that service. 
 
 The PRESIDENT desired to be indulged 
 in a few remarks, before the final adjourn- 
 ment, and said — 
 
 .Gentlemen of the Convention: — I feel 
 very much gratified at the final result of our 
 deliberations. I desire, before we finally ad- 
 journ, to congratulate you upon your success 
 in bringing about what is to my mind a very 
 much to be desired result of our labors which 
 are now brought to a close. I claim, and I 
 believe it is generally conceded, that the 
 credit which is due to this result which we 
 have just accomplished — that of framing one 
 Constitution, and one Constitution only — be- 
 longs to this body ; that to this body is due 
 the credit of having accomplished this much 
 desired end, and that it is due to this body 
 alone. That from the first, a persistent effort 
 and endeavor has been made on the part of 
 the other Convention, not to have this Territory 
 form itself into a State and go into the Union, 
 is a fact that many have seen and every man 
 in the State has felt ; and that their effort has 
 failed is certainly a source of congratulation. 
 Certainly this is something for us to rejoice 
 over ; for the reason that our every interest, 
 pecuniary, social and moral, demand it ; the 
 great interest of the people demand it ; the 
 interests of every class of people demand that 
 we should shake off our Territorial form of 
 government at this time, and as soon as pos- 
 sible, become one of the States of the Union. 
 The greater number of individuals composing 
 the other part of the Convention were desi- 
 rous that this object should not be attained. 
 That they desired to defeat the wish of the 
 people in this matter, is perfectly evident and 
 plain to every member of this Convention, 
 and it has become so to the people of this Ter- 
 ritory. Had that Convention persisted in its 
 original design of framing a Constitution, and 
 we another, neither would have been accepted 
 by the people. That the end which has been 
 finally accomplished has been accomplished 
 by the earnest and unwearied efforts of each 
 and all of the members of this Convention, is 
 also known to the people as well as to them- 
 selves. This object is accomplished ; and I 
 have taken this occasion to congratulate you 
 upon the accomplishment of this much de- 
 sired end. But I will not extend my remarks, 
 
 for I am aware of the impatience of members. 
 I know that each and every one must be very 
 desirous of coming to a final adjournment and 
 returning to their families. 
 
 The session has seemed to be a long one, 
 though not, in fact, very lono;. Certainly it 
 has not been as long as it would have been, 
 had all the members met with us ; neither has 
 it been as long a session as Constitutional 
 Conventions usuaUy hold. In one State I 
 remember a Constitutional Convention of nine 
 months' duration. In other States I could 
 name, they have sat four, five and six months. 
 Hence we might even congratulate ourselves 
 upon bringing our labors to a close in a much 
 shorter time than Constitutional Conventions 
 usually complete their work. 
 
 1 cannot but return my warmest personal 
 thanks to members, one and all, for their con- 
 tinued and cordial assistance and support in 
 the discharge of the dutias of this Chair. 
 When I first assumed them I requested as- 
 sistance in the performance of these duties, 
 and that request has been granted to the ful- 
 lest extent, and always in a manner most 
 grateful to my own feelings. 
 
 I am constrained also to offer my congrat- 
 ulations upon the general harmony and good 
 feeling which has been maintained through- 
 out the proceedings of this Convention to an 
 unusual extent. It would be very natural to 
 suppose that, under the peculiar circum- 
 stances in which we have been placed — in 
 the midstof a most uncertain state of affairs — 
 under the depressions of upcertainty as to 
 what would be the result of our session — 
 taking these into consideration, it may well be 
 said, that peace and harmony have reigned in 
 this Convention to an unusual extent. 
 
 In conclusion, gentlemen of the Convention, 
 my best wishes are with you all — now and 
 forever. May you all arrive safely at home, 
 and find each and every member of your sev- 
 eral families alive and in good health. 
 
 Again, gentlemen, I tender to you all my 
 sincere thanks for your most considerate re- 
 gards, which have constantly sustained me in 
 the discharge of the delicate and responsible 
 duties of this Chair. 
 
 And then — after prayer by the Rev. Boyd 
 Phelps, a delgate from Mower county — 
 
 The Convention adjourned sim die. 
 
APPENDIX. 
 
OEGANIC ACT 
 
 OF THE 
 
 TERRITORY OF MINNESOTA. 
 
 Sec. 1. Beit enacted by the Senate and 
 Souse of Representatives of the United States 
 of America, in Coiigress assembled: That from 
 and after the passage of this Act, all that 
 part of the Territory of the United States 
 \yhich lies within the following limits to wit : 
 Beginning in the Mississippi River at the 
 point where the line of forty-three degrees 
 and thirty minutes of north latitude crosses 
 the same, thence running due west on said 
 line, which is the northern boundary of the 
 State of Iowa, thence southerly along the 
 western boundary of said State, to the point 
 where said boundary strikes the Missouri 
 River; thence up the middle of the main 
 channel of the Missouri River to the mouth 
 of the White Earth River; thence up the 
 middle of the main channel of the "White 
 Earth River to the boundary line between the 
 possessions of the United States and Great 
 Britain ; thence east and south of east along 
 the boundary line between the possessions of 
 the United States and Great Britain to Lake 
 Superior; thence in a straight line to the 
 northernmost point of the State of "Wiscon- 
 sin in Lake Superior ; thence along the west- 
 em boundary line of said State of "Wiscon- 
 sin to the Mississippi River , thence down the 
 main channel of said river to the place of 
 beginning, be, and the same is hereby erected 
 
 into a temporary Government by the name 
 of the Territory of Minnesota ; Provided^ that 
 nothing in this act contained shall be con- 
 strued to inhibit the Government of the 
 United States from dividing said Territory 
 into two or more Territories, in such manner 
 and such times as Congress shall deem con- 
 venient and proper, or from attaching any 
 portion of said Territory to any other State 
 or Territory of the United States. 
 
 Sec 2. And be it further enacted, That 
 the executive power and authority in and 
 over said Territory of Minnesota, shall be 
 vested in a Governor, who shall hold his office 
 for four years, and until his successor shall be 
 appointed and qualified, unless sooner re- 
 moved by the President of the United States. 
 The Governor shall reside within said. Terri- 
 tory, shall be Commander-in-Chief of the 
 Militia thereof, shall perform the duties and 
 receive the emolimients of Superintendent of 
 Indian Affairs; he may grant pardons for 
 offences against the laws of said Territory, 
 and reprieves for offences committed against 
 the laws of the United States until the decis- 
 ion of the President of the United States can 
 be made known thereon ; he shall commission 
 all officers who shall be appointed to office 
 under the laws of said Territory, and shall 
 take care that the laws be faithfully executed. 
 
600 
 
 APPENDIX. 
 
 Sec. 3. And le it further enacted, That 
 there shall be a Secretary of said Teiyitory, 
 who shall reside therein, and hold his oflQce 
 for four years, unless sooner removed by the 
 President of the United States; he shall 
 record and preserve all the laws and proceed- 
 ings of the Legislative Assembly hereinafter 
 constituted, and all the acts and proceedings 
 of the Governor in his Executive Department ; 
 he shall transmit one copy of the laws and 
 one copy of the Executive proceedings, on or 
 before the first day of December in each 
 year to the President of the United States, 
 and at the same time two copies of the laws 
 to the Speaker of the House of Representa- 
 tives, and the President of the Senate, for 
 the use of Congress. And in case of the 
 death, removal, resignation, or necessary ab- 
 sence of the Governor from the Territory, the 
 Secretary shall be, and he is hereby, author- 
 ized and required to execute and perform all 
 th duties of the Governor during such va- 
 cancy or necessary absence, or until another 
 Governor shall be duly appointed to fill such 
 vacancy. 
 
 Sec. 4. And ie it farther enacted, That 
 the legislative power and authority of said 
 Territory shall be vested in the Governor and 
 a Legislative Assembly. The Legislative As 
 sembly shall consist of a Council and House 
 of Representatives. The Council shall con- 
 sist of nine members, having the qualifications 
 of voters as hereinafter prescribed, whose 
 term of service shall continue two years. 
 The House of Representatives shall, at its first 
 session, consist of eighteen members, posses- 
 sing the same qualifications as prescribed for 
 members of the Council, and whose term of 
 service shall continue for one year. The 
 number of Councillors and Representatives 
 may be increased by the Legislative Assembly 
 from time to time, in proportion to the in- 
 crease of population : Provided, That the 
 whole number shall never exceed fifteen 
 Councillors and thirty-nine Representatives. 
 An apportionment shall be made, as nearly 
 equal as practicable, among the several coun- 
 ties or districts, for the election of the Coun- 
 cil and Representatives, giving each section of 
 the Territory representation in the ratio of 
 its population, Indians excepted, as nearly as 
 may be. And the members of the Council 
 IW<J of the Honse of Representatives shall 
 
 reside in and be inhabitants of the district for 
 which they maj be elected respectively. 
 Previous to the first election the Governor 
 shall cause a census or enumeration of the 
 inhabitants of the seveml counties and dis- 
 tricts of the Territory to be taken, and the 
 first election shall be held at such time and 
 places, and be conducted in such manner, as 
 the Governor shall appoint and direct; and 
 he shall, at the same time, declare the num- 
 ber of members of the Council and House of 
 Representatives to which each of the counties 
 or districts shall be entitled under this Act. 
 The number of persons authorized to be 
 elected having the highest number of votes 
 in each of said Council Districts for members 
 of the Council, shall be declared by the Gov- 
 ernor to be duly elected to the Council ; and 
 the person or persons authorized to be elected, 
 having the greatest number of votes for the 
 House of Representatives, equal to the num- 
 ber to which each county or district shall be 
 entitled, shall also be declared by the Gover- 
 nor to be duly elected members of the House 
 of Representatives : Provided, that in case of 
 a tie between two or more persons voted for, 
 the Governor shall order a new election to 
 supply the vacancy made by such tie. And 
 the persons elected to the Legislative Assem- 
 bly shall meet at such place on such day as 
 the Governor shall appoint; but thereafter, 
 the time, place, and manner of holding and 
 conducting all elections by the people, and 
 the apportioning of the representation in the 
 several counties or districts to the Council 
 and House of Representatives according to 
 the population, shall be prescribed by law, as 
 well as the day of the commencement of the 
 regular session of the Legislative Assembly; 
 Provided, That no one session shall exceed 
 the term of sixty days. 
 
 Sec. 5. And be it further enacted, That 
 every free white male inhabitant above the 
 age of twenty-one years, who shall have been 
 a resident of said Territory at the time of the 
 passage of this Act, shall be entitled to vote 
 at the first election, and shall be eligible to 
 any office within the said Territory ; but the 
 qualifications of voters, and of holding office, 
 at all subsequent elections, shall be such as 
 shall be prescribed by the Legislative Assem- 
 bly: Provided, That tlie rights of suffrage, 
 and of holding oflQce, shall be exercised only 
 
APPENDIX. 
 
 601 
 
 by citizens of the United States, and those 
 who shall have declared, on oath, their inten- 
 tion to become such, and shall have taken an 
 oath to support the Constitution of the United 
 States, and the provisions of this act. 
 
 Sec. 6. And he it further enacted, That 
 the Legislative power of the Territory shall 
 extend to all rightful subjects of legislation, 
 consistent with the Constitution of the United 
 States and the provisions of this Act ; but 
 no law shall be passed interfering with the 
 primary disposal of the soil ; no tax shall be 
 imposed upon the property of the United 
 States ; nor shall the lands or other property 
 of non-residents be taxed higher than the 
 land or other property of residents. All the 
 laws passed by the Legislative Assembly and 
 Governor, shall be submitted to the Congress 
 of the United States, and if disapproved, shall 
 be null and of no eflfect. 
 
 Sec. 7. And de it further enacted, That 
 all township, district and county officers, not 
 herein otherwise provided for, shall be ap- 
 pointed or elected, as the case may be, in 
 such manner as shall be provided by the. 
 Governor and Legislative Assembly of the 
 Territory of Minnesota. The Governor shall 
 nominate, and, by and with the advice and 
 consent of the Legislative Council, appoint 
 officers not herein otherwise provided for; 
 and in the first instance the Governor alone 
 may appoint all said officers, who shall hold 
 their offices until the end of the next session 
 of the Legislative Assembly. 
 
 Sec. 8. And he it further enacted, That 
 no member of the Legislative Assembly shall 
 hold or be appointed to any office which shall 
 have been created, or the salary or emolu- 
 ments of which shall have been increased 
 while'he was a member, during the term for 
 which he was elected, and for one year after 
 the expiration of such term ; and no person 
 holding a commission or appointment under 
 the United States, except Postmaster, shall 
 be a member of the Legislative Assembly, or 
 shall hold any office under the Government of 
 said Territory. 
 
 Sec. 9. And he it further enacted, That 
 the Judicial power of said Territory shall be 
 vested in a Supreme Court, District Courts, 
 Probate Courts, and in Justices of the Peace. 
 The Supreme Court shall consist of a Chief 
 Justice and two Associate Justices, any two 
 76 
 
 of whom shall constitute a quorum, and who 
 shall hold a term at the seat of Government 
 of said Territory annually, and they shall 
 hold their offices during the period of four 
 years. The said Territory shall be divided 
 into three Judicial Districts, and a District 
 Court shall be held in each of said Districts 
 by one of the Justices of the Supreme Court 
 at such times and places as may be prescribed 
 by law ; and the said Judges shall, after their 
 appointment, respectively reside in the Dis- 
 tricts which shall be assigned them. The 
 jurisdiction of the several Courts herein pro- 
 vided for, both appellate and criminal, and 
 and that of the Probate Courts, and of Jus- 
 tices of the Peace, shall be as Umited by law : 
 Provided, that the Justices of the Peace shall 
 not have jurisdiction of any matter in contro- 
 versy when the title or boundaries of land 
 may be in dispute, or where the debt or sum 
 claimed shall exceed one hundred dollars ; 
 and the said Supreme and District Courts 
 respectively, shall possess chancery as well 
 as common law jurisdiction. Each District 
 Court, or the Judge thereof, shall appoint its 
 Clerk, who shall also be the register in chan- 
 cery, and shall keep his office at the place 
 where the Court may be held. Writs of 
 error, bills of exception and appeals, shall be 
 allowed in all cases from the final decisions 
 of said District Courts to the Supreme Court 
 under such regulations as may be prescribed 
 by law, but in no case removed to the Su- 
 preme Court, shall trial by Jury be allowed 
 in said Court. The Supreme Court, or the 
 Justices thereof, shall appoint its own Clerk, 
 and every Clerk shall hold his office at the 
 pleasure of the Court for which he shall have 
 been appointad. Writs of error, and appeals 
 from the final decisions of said Supreme 
 Court shall be allowed, and may be taken to 
 the Supreme Court of the United States, in 
 the same manner and under the same regula- 
 tions as from the Circuit Courts of the United 
 States, where the Rvalue of the property, or 
 the amount in controversy, to be ascei-tained 
 by the oath or affirmation of either party, or 
 other competent witness, shall exceed one 
 thousand dollars ; and each of the said Dis- 
 trict Courts shall have and exercise the same 
 jurisdiction, in all cases arising under the 
 Constitution and laws of the United States, 
 as is vested in the Circuit and District Courts 
 
602 
 
 APPENDIX. 
 
 of the United States ; and the first six days 
 of every term of said Courts, or so much 
 thereof as shall be necessary, shall be appro- 
 priated to the trial of causes arising under 
 the said Constitution and laws ; and writs of 
 error and appeal in all such cases shall be 
 made to the Supreme Court of said Territory, 
 the same as in other cases. The said Clerk 
 shall receive, in all such cases, the same fees 
 which the Clerks of the District Courts of 
 the late Wisconsin Territory received for 
 similar services. 
 
 Sec. 10. A7id le it further enacted, That 
 there shall be appointed an Attorney for said 
 Territory, who shall continue in office for four 
 years, unless sooner removed by the Presi- 
 dent, and who shall receive the same fees and 
 salary as the ' Attorney of the United States 
 for the late Territory of Wisconsin received. 
 There shall also be a Marshal for the Terri- 
 tory appointed, who shall hold his office for 
 four years, unless sooner removed by the 
 President, and who shall execute all processes 
 issuing from the said Courts, when exercising 
 their jurisdiction as Circuit and District 
 Courts of the United States ; he shall per- 
 form the duties, be subject to the same regu- 
 lations and penalties, and be entitled to the 
 same fees, as the Marshal of the District 
 Court of the United States, for the late Ter- 
 ritory of Wisconsin, ; and shall in addition be 
 paid two hundred dollars annually as a com- 
 pensation for extra services. 
 
 Sec. 11. And ie it further enacted, That, 
 the Governor, Secretary, Chief Justice, and 
 Associate Justices, Attorney and Marshal, 
 shall be nominated, and, by and with the ad- 
 vice and consent of the Senate, appointed by 
 the President of the United States. The 
 Governor and Secretary to be appointed as 
 aforesaid shall, before they act as such, res- 
 pectfully take an oath or affirmation, before 
 the District Judge, or some Justice of the 
 Peace, in the limits of said Territory, duly 
 authorized to administer oaths and affirma- 
 tions by the laws now in force therein, or be- 
 fore the Chief Justice or some Associate Jus- 
 tice of the Supreme Court of the United States, 
 to support the Constitution of the United 
 States, and faithfully to discharge the duties of 
 their respective offices ; which said oaths, when 
 so taken shall be certified by the person by 
 whom the same shall have been taken, and 
 
 such certificates shall be received and recorded 
 by the said Secretary among the executive 
 proceedings ; and the Chief Justice and Asso- 
 ciate Justices, and all other civil officers in said 
 Territory, before they act as such, shall take a 
 like oath or affimation before the said Gover- 
 nor or Secretary, or some Judge, or Justice of 
 the Peace of the Territory, who may be duly 
 commissioned and qualified, which said oath 
 or affirmation shall be certified and transmit- 
 ted by the person taking the same, to the Sec- 
 retary, to be by him recorded as aforesaid ; 
 and afterwards the like oath or affirmation 
 shall be taken, certified, and recorded in such 
 manner and form as may be prescribed by 
 law. The Governor shall receive an annual 
 salary of fifteen hundred dollars as Governor, 
 and one thousand dollars as Superintendent 
 of Indian Affairs. The Chief Justice and 
 Associate Justices shall each receive an an- 
 nual salary of eighteen hundred dollars. The 
 Secretary shall receive an annual salary of 
 eighteen hundred dollars. The said salaries 
 shall be paid quarter-yearly, at the Treasury 
 of the United States. The members of the 
 legislative assembly shall be entitled to receive 
 three dollars each per day during their attend- 
 ance at the sessions thereof, and three dollars 
 each for every twenty miles travel in going to 
 and returning from the said sessions, estima- 
 ted according to the nearest usually traveled 
 route. There shall be appropriated, annually, 
 the sum of one thousand dollars, to be ex- 
 pended by the Governor to defi'ay the con- 
 tingent expenses of the Territory ; and there 
 shall also be appropriated, annually, a suffi- 
 cient sum, to be expended by the Secretary 
 of the Territory, and, upon an estimate to be 
 made by the Secretary of the Treasury of 
 the United States, to defray the expenses of 
 the legislative assembly, the printing of the 
 laws, and other incidental expenses ; and the 
 Secretary of the Territory shall annually ac- 
 count to the Secretary of the Treasury of the 
 United States for the manner in which the 
 aforesaid sum shall have been expended. 
 
 Sec. 12. And be it further enacted, That 
 the inhabitants of the said Territory shall be 
 entitled to all the rights, privileges and im- 
 munities heretofore granted and secured to 
 the Territory of Wisconsin and to its inhabi- 
 tants ; and the laws in force in the Territory 
 of Wisconsion at the date of the admission of 
 
APPENDIX. 
 
 603 
 
 the State of "Wisconsin, shall continue to be 
 valid and operative therein, so far as the same 
 be not incompatible with the provisions of 
 this Act, subject, nevertheless, to be altered, 
 modified, or repealed, by the Governor and 
 legislative assembly of the Territory of Min- 
 nesota ; and the laws of the United States 
 are hereby extended over and declared to be 
 in force in said Territorj', so far as the same, 
 or any provision thereof, may be applicable. 
 
 Sec. 13. And be it further enacted, That 
 the legislative assembly of the Territory of 
 Minnesota shall hold its first session at St. 
 Paul ; and at said first session the Governor 
 and legislative assembly shall locate and es- 
 tabUsh a temporary seat of government for 
 said Territory, at such place as they may 
 deem eligible ; and shall, at such time as they 
 shall see proper, prescribe by law the manner 
 of locating the permanent seat of governmeijt 
 of said Territory by a vote of the people. — 
 And the sum of twenty thousand dollars, out 
 of any money in the Treasury not otherwise 
 appropriated, is hereby appropriated and 
 granted to said Territory of Minnesota, to be 
 applied, by the Governor and legislative as- 
 sembly, to the erection of suitable public 
 buildings at the seat of government. 
 
 Sec. 14. And he it further enacted, That 
 a Delegate to the House of Representatives 
 of the United States, to serve for the term of 
 two years, may be elected by the voters qual- 
 ified to elect members of the legislative as- 
 sembly, who shall be entitled to the same 
 rights and privileges as are exercised and en- 
 joyed by the Delegates from the several other 
 Territories of the United States to the said 
 House of Representatives. The first election 
 shall be held at such times and places, and 
 be conducted in such manner, as the Gover- 
 nor shall appoint and direct ; and at all sub- 
 sequent elections, the times, places, and man- 
 ner of holding the elections shaU be prescrib- 
 ed by law. The person having the greatest 
 number of votes shall be declared by the 
 Governor to be duly elected, and a certificate 
 thereof shall be given accordingly. 
 
 Sec. 15. And he it further enacted, That 
 all suits, process, and proceedings, civil and 
 criminal, at law and in chancery, and all in- 
 dictments and informations, which shall be 
 pending and undetermined in the courts of 
 the Territory of "Wisconsin, within the limits 
 
 of said Territory of Minnesota, when this Act 
 shall take effect, shall be transferred to be 
 heard, tried, prosecuted and determined in 
 the district courts hereby established, which 
 may include the counties or districts where 
 any such proceedings may be pending. All 
 bonds, recognizances, and obligations of every 
 kind whatsoever, valid under the existing laws 
 within the limits of said Territory, shall be 
 valid under this act ; and all crimes and mis- 
 demeanors against the laws in force within 
 said limits may be prosecuted, tried and pun- 
 ished in the courts established by this act ; 
 and all penalties, forfeitures, actions, and 
 causes of action, may be recovered under 
 this act, the same as they would have been 
 imder the laws in force within the limits com- 
 posing said Territory at the time this act shall 
 go into operation. 
 
 Sec. 16. And he it further enacted. That 
 all justices of the peace, constables, sherifis, 
 and all other judicial and ministerial ofBcers, 
 who shall be in office within the limits of said 
 Territory when this act shall take efiect, shall 
 be, and they are hereby, authorized and re- 
 quired to continue to exercise and perform 
 the duties of their respective offices as offi- 
 cers of the Territory of Minnesota, tempora- 
 rily, and until they, or others, sha l l be duly 
 appointed and qualified to fill their places in 
 the manner herein directed, or until their offi- 
 ces shall be abolished. 
 
 Sec. 17. And he it further enacted. That 
 the sum of five thousand dollars be, and the 
 same is hereby, appropriated, out of any 
 moneys in the Treasury not otherwise appro- 
 priated, to be expended by and under the di- 
 rection of the said Governor of the Territory 
 of Minnesota, in the pvu"chase of a library, to 
 be kept at the seat of government, for the 
 use of the Governor, Legislative Assembly, 
 Judges of the Supreme Court, Secretary, 
 Marshal, and Attorney of said Territory, and 
 such other persons, and imder such regulations 
 as shall be prescribed by law. 
 
 Sec. 18. And he it further enacted, That 
 when the lands in the said Territory shall be 
 surveyed imder the direction of the govern- 
 ment of the United States, preparatory tc 
 bringing the same into market, sections num- 
 bered sixteen and thirty-six in each township, 
 in said Territory shall be, and the same are 
 hereby, reserve^ for the purpose of being ap- 
 
604 
 
 APPENDIX. 
 
 plied to schools in said Territory, and the 
 States and Territories hereafter to be erected 
 out of the same. 
 
 Sec. 9. And he it further e7iacted, That 
 temporarily, and until otherwise provided by 
 law, the Governor of said Territory may de- 
 fine the Judicial Districts of said Territory, 
 and assign the Judges who may be appointed 
 for said Territory to the several Districts, 
 and also appoint the time and places for hold- 
 ing Courts in the several counties or subdi- 
 visions in each of said Judicial Districts, by 
 proclamation to be issued by him ; but the 
 legislative assembly, at their first or any sub- 
 sequent session, may organize, alter, or mod- 
 ify such Judicial Districts, and assign the 
 Judges, and alter the times and places of hold- 
 ing the Courts as to them shall seem proper 
 and convenient. 
 
 Sec. 20, And de it furtJier enacted, That 
 every bill which shall or may pass the Coun- 
 cil and House of Representatives shall, before 
 it becomes a law, be presented to the Gover- 
 nor of the Territory ; if he approve, he shall 
 
 sign it, but if not, he shall return it, with hia 
 objections to the House in which it originated ; 
 which shall cause the objections to be entered 
 at large upon the Journal, and •proceed to re- 
 consider it. If, after such reconsideration, 
 two-thirds of that House shall agree to pass 
 the bill, it shall be sent, together with the 
 objections, to the other House, by which it 
 shall also be reconsidered, and if approved by 
 two-thirds of that House, it shall become a 
 law ; but in all cases the votes of both Houses 
 shall be detertermined by yeas and nays, and 
 the names of the persons voting for and 
 against the bill shall be entered on the Journal 
 of each House respectively. If any bill shall 
 not be returned by the Governor, within three 
 days, (Sundays excepted,) after it shall have 
 been presented to him, the same shall be a 
 law, in like manner as if he had signed it, 
 unless the legislative assembly, by adjourn- 
 ment, prevent it ; in which case it shall not 
 become a law. 
 
 Appeoved March 3, 1849. 
 
COIiSTITUTION 
 
 OF THE 
 
 ST^TE OF MIlSJ"lsrESOTA.. 
 
 PREAilBLE ; 
 
 We, the people of the State of Minnesota, 
 grateful to God for our civH and religious 
 liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its bless- 
 ings, and secure the same to ourselves and 
 our posterity, do ordain and establish this 
 Constitution : 
 
 ARTICLE I. 
 BiU of PdgUs. 
 
 Section 1. Government is instituted for 
 the security, benefit and protection of the 
 people, in whom all political power is inherent, 
 together with the right to alter, modify or 
 reform such government, whenever the pubHc 
 good may require it. 
 
 Sec. 2. No member of this State shall be 
 disfiranchised, or deprived of any of the rights 
 or privileges secured to any citizen thereof, 
 unless by the law of the land, or the judgment 
 of his peers. There shall be neither slavery 
 nor involuntary servitude in the State other- 
 wise than in the punishment of crime whereof 
 the party shall have been duly convicted. 
 
 Sec. 3. The Uberty of the press shall for- 
 ever remain inviolate, and all persons may 
 freely speak, write and publish their senti- 
 ments on all subjects, being responsible for 
 the abuse of such right 
 
 Sec. 4. The right of trial by jury shall 
 remain inviolate, and shall extend to all cases 
 
 at law without regard to the amount in con- 
 troversy, but a jury trial may be waived by 
 the parties in aU cases, in the manner pre- 
 scribed by law. 
 
 Sec. 5. Excessive bail shall not be requir- 
 ed, nor shall excessive fines be imposed, nor 
 shall cruel or mnusual punishments be inflict- 
 ed. 
 
 Sec. 6. In all criminal prosecutions the 
 accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and 
 pubhc trial, by an impartial jury of the county 
 or district wherein the crime shall have been 
 committed, which county or district shall 
 have been previously ascertained by law, and 
 to be informed of the nature and cause of the 
 accusation, to be confronted with the witnesses 
 against him, to have compulsory process for 
 obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have 
 the assistance of counsel in his defense. 
 
 Sec. 7. No person shall be held to answer 
 for a criminal oflfence unless on the present- 
 ment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except 
 in cases of impeachment or in cases cognizable 
 by Justices of the Peace, or arising in the 
 Army or Navy, or in the militia when in actual 
 service in time of war or public danger, and 
 no person for the same offence shall be put 
 twice in jeopardy of punishment, nor shall be 
 compelled in any criminal case to be mtness 
 against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty. 
 
605 
 
 APPENDIX. 
 
 or property without due process of law. All 
 persons shall before conviction be bailable by 
 sufficient sureties, except for capital offences, 
 when the proof is evident or the presumption 
 great ; and the privilege of the writ of habeas 
 corpus shall not be suspended, unless, when 
 in case of rebellion or invasion, the public 
 safety may require. 
 
 Sec. 8. Every person is entitled to a cer- 
 tain remedy in the laws for all injuries or 
 wrongs which he may receive in his person, 
 property or character; he ought to obtain 
 j ustice freely and without purchase ; complete- 
 ly, and without denial ; promptly and without 
 delay, conformably to the laws. 
 
 Sec. 9. Treason against the State shall 
 consist only in levying war against the same, 
 or in adhering to its enemies, giving them aid 
 and comfort. No person shall be convicted 
 of treason unless on the testimony of two 
 witnesses to the same overt act, or on confes- 
 sion in open court. 
 
 Sec. 10. The right of the people to be 
 secure in their persons, houses, papers and 
 effects, against unreasonable searches and 
 seizures shall not be violated, and no warrant 
 shall issue but upon probable cause, Support- 
 ed by oath or affirmation, and particularly 
 describing the place to be searched, and the 
 person or things to be seized. 
 
 Sec. 11. No bill of attainder, ex post facto 
 law, nor any law impairing the obligation of 
 contracts shall ever be] passed, and no con- 
 viction shall work corruption of blood or 
 forfeiture of estate. 
 
 Sec. 12. No person shall be imprisoned 
 for debt in this State, but this shall not pre- 
 vent the Legislature from providing for im- 
 prisonment or holding to bail persons charged 
 with fraud in contracting said debt. A rea- 
 sonable amount of property shall be exempt 
 from seizure or sale, for the payment of any 
 debt or liability, the amount of such exemp- 
 tion shall be determined by law. 
 
 Sec. 13. Private property shall not be 
 taken for public use without just compensa- 
 tion therefor, first paid or secured. 
 
 Sec 14. The military shall be subordinate 
 to the civil power, and no standing army shall 
 be kept up in this State in time of peace. 
 
 Sec. 15. All lands within this State are 
 declared to be allodial, and feuded tenures of 
 every description, with all their incidents, are 
 
 prohibited. Leases and grants of agricultu- 
 ral land for a longer period than twenty-one 
 years, hereafter made, in which shall be re- 
 served any rent or service of any kind, shall 
 be void. 
 
 Sec 16. The enumeration of rights in 
 this Constitution shall not be construed to 
 deny or impair others retained by and inher- 
 ent in the people. The right of every man 
 to worship God according to the dictates of 
 his own conscience shall never be infringed ; 
 nor shall any man be compelled to attend, 
 erect, or support any place of worship, or to 
 maintain any religious or ecclesiastical minis- 
 try against his consent ; nor shall any control 
 of, or interference with the rights of consci- 
 ence be permitted, or any preference be given 
 by law to any religious establishment or mode 
 of worship; but the liberty of conscience 
 hereby secured, shall not be so construed as 
 as to excuse acts of licentiousness or justify 
 practices inconsistent with the peace or safety 
 of the State ; nor shall any money be drawn 
 from the treasury for the benefit of any re- 
 ligious societies, or religious or theological 
 seminaries. 
 
 Sec 17. No religious test or amount of 
 property shall ever be required as a qualifica- 
 tion for any office of public trust under the 
 State. No religious test or amount of pro- 
 perty shall ever be required as a qualification 
 of any voter at any election in this State ; 
 nor shall any person be rendered incompe- 
 tent to give evidence in any court of law or 
 equity in consequence of his opinion upon the 
 subject of religion. 
 
 ARTICLE II. 
 On Name and Boundaries. 
 Section 1. This State shall be called and 
 known by the name of the State of Minneso- 
 ta, and shall consist of and have jurisdiction 
 over the Territory embraced in the following 
 boundaries, to wit : Beginning at the point 
 in the center of the main channel of the Red 
 River of the North, where the boundary line 
 between the United States and the British 
 Possessions crosses the same ; thence up the 
 main channel of said river to that of the 
 Bois des Sioux river; thence up the main 
 channel of said river to Lake Traverse ; thence 
 up the center of said Lake to the southern ex- 
 tremity thereof; thence in a direct line to 
 head of Big Stone Lake ; thence through its 
 
APPENDIX. 
 
 607 
 
 center to its outlet ; thence by a due south 
 line to the north line of the State of Iowa ; 
 thence east along the northern boundary of 
 said State to the main channel of the Missis- 
 sippi river; thence up the main channel of said 
 river, and following the boundary line of the 
 State of "Wisconsin until the same intersects 
 the St. Louis river ; thence down the said 
 river to and through Lake Superior, on the 
 boundary line of "Wisconsin and Michigan, 
 until it intersects the dividing line between 
 the United States and British Possessions; 
 thence up Pigeon river, and following said 
 dividing line to the place of beginning. 
 
 Sec. 2. The State of Minnesota shall 
 have concurrent jurisdiction on the Mississippi 
 and all other rivers and waters bordering on 
 the said State of Mmnesota, so far as the 
 same shall form a common boundary to said 
 State, and any other State or States now or 
 hereafter to be formed by the same ; and said 
 river and waters, and navigable waters lead- 
 ing into the same, shall be common high- 
 ways, and forever free, as well to the inhabi- 
 tants of said State as to other citizens of the 
 United States, without any tax, duty, unpost 
 or toll therefor. 
 
 Sec. 3. The propositions contained in the 
 act of Congress entitled "An Act to authorize 
 " the people of the Territory of Minnesota to 
 " form a Constitution and State government 
 " preparatory to their admission into the Union 
 " on an equal footing with the original States," 
 are hereby accepted, ratified, and confirmed, 
 and shall remain irrevocable without the con- 
 sent of the United States ; and it is hereby 
 ordamed that this State shall never interfere 
 with the primary disposal of the soil within 
 the same, by the United States, or with any 
 regulation Congress may find necessary for 
 securing the title to said soil to bona fide pur- 
 chasers thereof; and no tax shall be imposed 
 on lands belongmg to the United States, and 
 in no case shall non-resident proprietors be 
 taxed higher than residents. 
 
 ARTICLE III. 
 
 Distribution of the Powers of Government. 
 
 Sectios 1. The;" powers of government 
 shall be divided into three distinct Depart- 
 ments—the Legislative, Executive and Judi- 
 cial ; and no person or persons belonging to or 
 constituting one of these Departments, shall 
 
 exercise any of the powers properly belonging 
 
 to either of the others, except in the instances 
 
 expressly provided in this Constitution. 
 
 ARTICLE IV. 
 
 Legislative Department. 
 
 Section 1. The Legislature of the State 
 shall consist of a Senate and House of Rep- 
 resentatives, who shall meet at the Seat of 
 Government of the State, at such times as 
 shall be prescribed by law. 
 
 Sec. 2. The number of members who com- 
 pose the Senate and House of Representatives 
 shall be prescribed by law, but the represen- 
 tation in the Senate shall never exceed one 
 member for every five thousand inhabitants, 
 and in the House of Representatives one mem- 
 ber for every two thousand inhabitants. The 
 representation in both Houses shall be appor- 
 tioned equally throughout the different sec- 
 tions of the State, in proportion to the popu- 
 lation thereof, exclusive of Indians not taxa- 
 ble under the provisions of law. 
 
 Sec. 3. Each House shall be the judge of 
 the election returns, and eligibility of its own 
 members; a majority of each shall constitute 
 a quorum to transact business, but a smaller 
 number may adjourn from day to day, and 
 compel the attendance of absent members in 
 such manner and under such penalties as it 
 may provide. 
 
 Sec. 4. Each House may determine the 
 rules of its proceedings, sit upon its own ad- 
 journment, punish its members for disorderly 
 behavior, and with the concurrence of two- 
 thirds, expel a member, but no member shall 
 be expelled a second time for the same of- 
 fence. 
 
 Sec. 5. The House of Representatives 
 shall elect its presiding officer, and the Sen- 
 ate and House of Representatives shall elect 
 such other officers as may be provided by 
 law; they shall keep Journals of their pro- 
 ceedings, and from time to time publish the 
 same, and the yeas and nays, when taken on 
 any question, shall be entered on such Jour- 
 nals. 
 
 Sec. 6. Neither House shall, during the 
 session of the Legislature, adjourn for more 
 than three days, (Sundays excepted,) nor ia 
 any other place than that in which the two 
 Houses shaU be assembled, without the con- 
 sent of the other House. 
 
APPENDIX. 
 
 Sec. 7. The compensation of Senators and 
 Representatives shall be three dollars per 
 diem during the first session, but may after- 
 wards be prescribed by law. But no increase 
 of compensation shall be prescribed which 
 shall take effect during the period for which 
 the members of the existing House of Repre- 
 •sentatives may have been elected. 
 
 Sec. 8. The members of each House shall 
 in all cases, except treason, felony, and breach 
 of the peace, be privileged from arrest during 
 the sessions of their respective Houses, and 
 in going to or returning from the same. For 
 any speech or debate in either House they 
 shall not be questioned in any other place. 
 
 Sec. 9. No Senator or Representative 
 shall, during the time for which he is elected, 
 hold any office under the authority of the 
 United States, or the State of Minnesota ex- 
 cept that of Postmaster ; and no Senator or 
 Representative shall hold an office under the 
 State, which had been created, or the emolu- 
 ments of which had been increased during the 
 session of the Legislature of which he was a 
 member, until one year after the expiration of 
 his term of office in the Legislature. 
 
 Sec. 10. All bills for raising a revenue 
 shall originate in the House of Representa- 
 tives, but the Senate may propose and concur 
 with amendments, as on other bills. 
 
 Sec. 11. Every bill which shall have passed 
 the Senate and House of Representatives, in 
 conformity to the rules of each House and 
 the Joint Rules of the two Houses, shall, be- 
 fore it becomes a law, be presented to the 
 Governor of the State. If he approve, he 
 shall sign and deposit it in the office of Sec- 
 retary of State for preservation, and notify 
 the House where it originated of the fact. 
 But if not, he shall return it with his objec- 
 tions to the House in which it shall have ori- 
 ginated, when such objections shall be entered 
 at large on the journal of the same, and the 
 House shall proceed to reconsider the bill. 
 If, after such reconsideration, two thirds of 
 that House shall agree to pass the bill, it 
 shall be sent, together with the objections, to 
 the other House, by which it shall likewise be 
 reconsidered, and if it bo approved by two 
 thirds of that House, it shall become a law. 
 But in all such cases the votes of both Houses 
 shall be determined by yeas and nays, and 
 the nittiba of the persons voting lor or against 
 
 the bill shall be entered on the journal of 
 each House respectively. If any bill shall 
 not be returned by the Governor within three 
 days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have 
 been presented to him, the same shall be a 
 law in like manner as if he had signed it, un- 
 less the Legislature, by adjournment within 
 that time, prevent its return, in which case it 
 shall not be a law. The Governor may ap- 
 prove, sign, and file in the office of the Secre- 
 tary of State, within three days after the ad- 
 journment of the Legislature, any act passed 
 during the three last days of the session, and 
 the same shall become a law. 
 
 Sec. 12. No money shall be appropriated 
 except by bill. Every order, resolution or 
 vote requiring the concurrence of the two 
 Houses, (except such as relate to the busi- 
 ness or adjournment of the same,) shall be 
 presented to the Governor for his signature, 
 and before the same shall take effect, shall 
 be approved by him, or being returned by 
 him with his objections, shall be repassed by 
 two-thirds of the members of the two Houses, 
 according to the rules and limitations," pre- 
 scribed in case of a bill. 
 
 Sec. 13. The style of all laws of this 
 State shall be : " Be it enacted by the Legis- 
 lature of the State of Minnesota." No law 
 shall be passed unless voted for by a majority 
 of all the members elected to each branch of 
 the Legislature, and the vote entered upon the 
 journal of each House. 
 
 Sec. 14. The House of Representatives 
 shall have the sole power of impeachment, 
 through a concurrence of a majority of all 
 the members elected to seats therein. All 
 impeachments shall be tried by the Senate ; 
 and when sitting for that purpose the Sena- 
 tors shall be upon oath or affirmation to do 
 justice according to law and evidence. No 
 person shall be convicted without the con- 
 currence of two-thirds of the members pres- 
 ent. 
 
 Sec. 15. The Legislature shall have full 
 power to exclude from the privilege of elect- 
 ing or being elected, any person convicted 
 of bribery, perjury, or any other infamous 
 crime. 
 
 Sec 16. Two or more members of either 
 House shall have liberty to dissent and pro- 
 test against any act or resolution which 
 they may think injurious to the public or to 
 
APPENDIX. 
 
 609 
 
 any individual, and have the reason of their 
 dissent entered on the journal. 
 
 Sec. 17. The Governor shall issue writs 
 of election to fill such vacancies [as may oc- 
 cur in either House of the Legislature. The 
 Legislature shall prescribe by law the manner 
 in which evidence in cases of contested seats 
 in either House shall be taken. 
 
 Sec. 18. Each House may punish by im- 
 prisonment, during its session, any person not 
 a member, who shall be guilty of any disor- 
 derly or contemptuous behavior in their pres- 
 ence, but no such imprisonment shall at any 
 time exceed twenty-four hours. 
 
 Sec. 19. Each House shall be open to the 
 public during the sessions thereof except in 
 such cases as their opinion may require se- 
 crecy. 
 
 Sec. 20. Every bill shall be read on three 
 diflFerent days in each separate House, unless 
 in case of urgency, two-thirds of the House 
 where such bill is pending, shall deem it expe- 
 dient to dispense with this rule ; and no bill 
 shall be passed by either House until it shall 
 have been previously read twice at length. 
 
 Sec. 21. Every bill having passed both 
 Houses, shall be carefully enrolled, and shall 
 be signed by the presiding officer of each 
 House. Any presiding officer refusing to 
 sign a bill which shall have previously passed 
 both Houses, shall thereafter be incapable of 
 holding a seat in either branch of the Legis- 
 lative Assembly, or hold any other office of 
 honor or profit in the State ; and in case of 
 such refusal, each House shall, by rule, pro- 
 vide the manner in which such bill shall be 
 properly certified for presentation to the Gov- 
 ernor. 
 
 Sec. 22. No bill shall be passed by either 
 House of the Legislature upon the day pre- 
 scribed for the adjournment of the two 
 Houses. But this section shall not be so con- 
 strued as to preclude the enrollment of a bill, 
 or the signature and passage from one House 
 to the other, or the reports thereon from com- 
 mittees, or its transmission to the Executive 
 for his signature. 
 
 Sec 23. The Legislature shall provide by 
 law for the envuneration of the inhabitants of 
 this State in the year one thousand eight hun 
 dred and sixty-five, and every tenth year 
 thereafter. At their first session after each 
 enumeration so made, and also at their first 
 77 
 
 session after each enumeration made by the 
 authority of the United States, the Legisla- 
 ture shall have the power to prescribe the 
 bounds of Congressional, Senatorial and Rep- 
 resentative districts, and to apportion anew 
 the Senators and Representatives among the 
 several districts, according to the provisions 
 of section second of this article. 
 
 Sec. 24. Ths Senators shall also be chosen 
 by single districts of convenient contiguous 
 territory, at the same time that the members 
 of the House of Represertatives are required 
 to be chosen, and in the same manner ; and 
 no representative district shall be dinded in 
 the formation of a Senate District. The Sen- 
 ate districts shall be numbered in regular 
 series, and the Senators chosen by the dis- 
 trict designated by odd numbers, shall go 
 out of office at the expiration of the first 
 year, and the Senators chosen by the'districts 
 designated by even numbers shall go out of 
 office at the expiration of the second year ; 
 and thereafter the Senators shall be chosen 
 for the term of two years, except there shall 
 be an entire new election of all the Senators 
 at the election next succeeding each new ap- 
 portionment provided for in this article. 
 
 Sec. 25. Senators and Representatives 
 shall be qualified voters of the State, and shall 
 have resided one year in the State, and six 
 months immediately preceding the^election in 
 the district from which they are elected. 
 
 Sec 26. Members of the Senate of the 
 United States from this State shall be elected 
 by the two Houses of the Legislature, in joint 
 Convention, at such times and in such man- 
 ner as may be provided by law. 
 
 Sec 27. No law shall embrace more than 
 one subject, which shall be expressed in its 
 title. 
 
 Sec 28. Divorces shall not be granted by 
 the Legislature. 
 
 Sec 29. All members and officers of both 
 branches of the Legislature shall, before en- 
 tering upon the duties of their respective 
 trusts, take and subscribe an oath or affirma- 
 tion to support the Constitution of the United 
 States, the Constitution of the State of Min - 
 nesota, and faithfully and impartially to dis- 
 charge the duties devolving upon him as such 
 member or officer. 
 
 Sec 30. In all elections to be made by the 
 Legislature, the members thereof shall vote 
 
610 
 
 APPENDIX. 
 
 viva VCC8, and their votes shall be entered on 
 the Journal. 
 
 Sec. 31. The Legislature shall ncer au- 
 thorize any lotteiy, or the sale of lottery 
 tickets. 
 
 ARTICLE V. 
 Executive Department. 
 Section 1. The Executive Department 
 shall consist of a Governor, Lieutenant Gov- 
 ernor, Secretary of State, Auditor, Treasurer, 
 and Attorney General, who shall be chosen 
 by the electors of the State. 
 
 Sec. 2. The returns of every election, for 
 the officers named in the foregoing section 
 shall be made to the Secretary of State, and 
 by him transmitted to the Speaker of the 
 House of Representatives, who shall c^use 
 the same to be opened and canvassed before 
 both houses of the Legislature, and the re- 
 sult declared within three days after each 
 House shall be organized. 
 
 Sec. 3. The term of oflBce for the Gover- 
 nor and Lieutenant Governor shall be two 
 years, and until their successors are chosen 
 and qualified. Each shall have attained the 
 age of twenty-five (25) years, and shall have 
 been a bona fide resident of the State for one 
 year next preceding his election. Both shall 
 be citizens of the United States. 
 
 Sec. 4. The Governor shall communicate 
 by message to each session of the Legislature, 
 such information touching the state and con- 
 dition of the country as he may deem expe- 
 dient. He shall be commander-in-chief of the 
 military and naval forces, and may call out 
 such forces to execute the laws, to suppress 
 insurrection and to repel invasion. He may 
 require the opinion, in writing, of the princi- 
 pal oflQcer in each of the Executive Depart- 
 ments, upon any subject relating to the duties 
 of their respective offices, and he shall have 
 power to grant reprieves and pardons after 
 conviction for offences against the State, ex- 
 cept in cases of impeachment. Ho shall 
 have power, by and with the advice and con- 
 sent of the Senate, to appoint a State Libra- 
 rian and Notaries Public, and such other ofli- 
 cers as may be provided by law ; ho shall 
 have power to appoint Commissioners to take 
 the acknowledgment of deeds or other instru- 
 ments in writing, to be used in the State. 
 He shall have a negative upon all laws passed 
 by the Legislature under such rules and lim- 
 
 itations as are in this Constitution prescribed' 
 He may, on extraordinary occasions convene 
 both Houses of the Legislature. He shall 
 take care that the laws be faithfully executed, 
 fill any vacancy that may occur in the office 
 of Secretary of State, Treasurer, Auditor, 
 Attorney General, and such other State and 
 District ofiicers as may be hereafter created 
 by law, until the next annual election, and 
 until their successors are chosen and quali- 
 fied. 
 
 Sec. 5. The ofiicial term of the Secretary 
 of State, Treasurer and Attorney General 
 shall be two years. The official tenn of the 
 Auditor shall be three years, and each shall 
 continue in oflBce until his successor shall 
 have been elected and qualified. The Gov- 
 ernor's salary for the first term under this 
 Constitution shall be two thousand five hun- 
 dred dollars per annum. The salary of the 
 Secretary of State for the first term shall be 
 fifteen hundred dollars per annum. The 
 Auditor, Treasurer and Attorney General 
 shall each, for the first term, receive a salary 
 of one thousand dollars per annum. And 
 the further duties and salaries of said Execu- 
 tive officers shall each thereafter be pre- 
 scribed by law. 
 
 Sec. 6. The Lieutenant Governor shall 
 be ex-officio President of the Senate, and in 
 case a vacancy should occur, from any cause 
 whatever, in the office of Governor, he shall 
 be Governor during such vacancy. The com- 
 pensation of Lieutenant Governor shall be 
 double the compensation of a State Senator. 
 Before the close of each session of the Senate 
 they shall elect a President pro tempore, who 
 shall be Lieutenant Governor in case a va- 
 cancy should occur in that office. 
 
 Sec. 7. The term of each of the Execu- 
 tive offices named in this article, shall com- 
 mence upon taking the oath of office, after 
 the State shall be admitted by Congress into 
 the Union, and continue until the first Mon- 
 day in January, 18G0, except the Auditor, 
 who shall continue in office until tlic first 
 Monday in January, 18G1, and until their 
 successors shall have been duly elected and 
 qualified. 
 
 Sec. 8. Each officer created by this ar- 
 ticle, shall, before entering upon Iiis duties, 
 take an oath or affirmation to support the 
 Constitution of the United States, and of 
 
APPENDIX 
 
 611 
 
 this State, and faithfully discharge the duties 
 of his office to the best of liis judgment and 
 ability. 
 
 Sec. 9. Laws shall be passed at the first 
 session of the Legislature after the State is 
 admitted into the Union to carry out the pro- 
 visions of thLs article. 
 
 ARTICLE VI. 
 
 Judicial. 
 
 Section 1. The Judicial power of the 
 State shall be vested in a Supreme Court, 
 District Courts, Courts of Probate, Justices 
 of the Peace, and such other Courts, inferior 
 to the Supreme Court, as the Legislature 
 may from time to time establish by a two- 
 thirds vote. 
 
 Sec. 2. The Supreme Court shall consist 
 of one Chief Justice and two Associate Jus- 
 tices, but the number of Associate Justices 
 may be increased to a number not exceeding 
 four, by the Legislature, by a two-thirds 
 vote, when it shall be deemed necessary. It 
 shall have original jurisdiction in such reme- 
 dial cases as may be prescribed by law, and 
 appellate jurisdiction in all cases, both in 
 law and equity, but there shall be no trial 
 by jury in said Court. It shall hold one or 
 more terms in each year, as the Legislature 
 may direct, at the seat of Government, and 
 the Legislature may provide by a two-thirds 
 vote, that one term in each year shall be held 
 in each or any Judicial District. It shall be 
 the duty of such Court to appoint a Reporter 
 of its decisions. There shall be chosen by 
 the qualified electors of the State, one Clerk 
 of the Supreme Court, who shall hold his of- 
 fice for the term of three years, and until his 
 successor is duly elected and qualified, and 
 the Judges of the Supreme Court, or a ma- 
 jority of them, shall have the power to fill 
 any vacancy in the office of Clerk of the Su- 
 preme Court until an election can be regu- 
 larly had. 
 
 Sec. 3. The Judges of the Supreme Court 
 shall.be elected by the electors of the State at 
 lar<^, and their term of office shall be seven 
 years, and until their successors are elected 
 and qualified. 
 
 Sec 4. The State shall be divided by the 
 Legislature into six Judicial Districts, which 
 shall be composed of contiguous territory, be 
 bounded by county lines, and contain a pop- 
 ulation as nearly equal as may be practica- 
 
 ble. In each Judicial District, one Judge 
 shall be elected by the electors thereof, who 
 sliall constitute said Court, and whose term 
 of office shall be seven years. Every Dis- 
 trict Judge shall, at the time of his election, 
 be a resident of the District for which he 
 shall be elected, and shall reside therein du- 
 ring his continuance in office. 
 
 Sec 5. The District Courts shall have 
 original jurisdiction in aU civil cases, both in 
 law and equity, where the amount in contro- 
 versy exceeds one hundred dollars, and in all 
 criminal cases where the punishment shall ex- 
 ceed three months imprisonment, or a fine of 
 more than one hundred dollars, and shall 
 have such appellate jurisdiction as may be 
 prescribed by law. The Legislature may 
 provide by law that the Judge of one District 
 may discharge the duties of Judge of any 
 other district, not his own, when convenience 
 or the public interest may require it. 
 
 Sec. 6. The Judges of the Supreme and 
 District Courts shall be men learned in the 
 law, and shall receive such compensation, at 
 stated times, as may be prescribed by the 
 Legislature, which compensation shall not be 
 diminished during their continuance in office, 
 but they shall receive no other fee or reward 
 for their services. 
 
 Sec. 7. There shall be established in each 
 organized county in the State a Probate 
 Court, which shall be a Court of Record, and 
 be held at such times and places as may be 
 prescribed by law. It shall be held by one 
 Judge, who shall be elected by the voters of 
 the county, for the term of two years. He 
 shall be a resident of such county at the time 
 of his election, and reside therein during his 
 continuance in office, and his compensation 
 shall be provided by law. He may appoint 
 his own Clerk, where none has been elected, 
 but the Legislature may authorize the election 
 by the electors of any county, of one Clerk 
 or Register of Probate for such coimty, whose 
 powers, duties, term of office and compensa- 
 tion shall be prescribed by law. A Probate 
 Court shall have jurisdiction over the estates 
 of deceased persons, and persons vmder 
 guardianship, but no other jurisdiction except 
 as prescribed by this Constitution. 
 
 Sec 8. The Legislature shall provide for 
 the election of a sufficient number of Justi- 
 ces of the Peace in each county, whose term 
 
612 
 
 APPENDIX. 
 
 of office shall be two years, and whose duties 
 and compensation shall be prescribed by law ; 
 Provided^ That po Justice of the Peace shall 
 have jurisdiction of any civil cause where the 
 amount in controversy shall exceed one hun- 
 dred dollars, nor in a criminal cause where 
 the punishment shall exceed three months 
 imprisonment, or a fine of over one hundred 
 dollars, nor in any case involving the title to 
 real estate. 
 
 Sec. 9. All judges other than those pro- 
 vided for in this Constitution shall be elected 
 by the electors of the Judicial district, county 
 or city, for which they shall be created, nor 
 for a longer term than seven years. 
 
 Sec. 10. In case the office of any Judge 
 shall become vacant before the expiration of 
 the regular term for which he was elected, the 
 vacancy shall be filled by appointment by the 
 Governor until a successor is elected and 
 qualified. And such successor shall be elected 
 at the first annual election that occurs more 
 than thirty days after the vacancy shall have 
 happened. 
 
 Sec. 11. The Justices of the Supreme 
 Court and the District Courts shall hold no 
 office under the United States, nor any other 
 office under this State. And all votes for 
 either of them for any elective office under 
 this Constitution, except a Judicial office, 
 given by the Legislature or the people, during 
 their continuance in office, shall be void. 
 
 Sec 12. The Legislature may at any time 
 change the number of Judicial Districts, or 
 their boundaries, when it shall be deemed 
 expedient, but no such change shall vacate 
 the office of any Judge. 
 
 Sec. 13. There shall be elected in each 
 county where a district court shall be held, 
 one clerk of said court, whose qualifications, 
 duties and compensation shall be prescribed 
 by law, and whose term of office shall be four 
 years. 
 
 Sec. 14. Legal pleadings and proceedings 
 in the courts of this State shall be under the 
 direction of the Legislature. The style of all 
 process shall be "The State of Minnesota," 
 and all indictments shall include "Against 
 " the peace and dignity of the State of Minne- 
 "sota." 
 
 Sec, 15. The Legislature may provide for 
 the election of one person in each organized 
 county in this State, to be called a Court 
 
 Commissioner, with judicial power and juris- 
 diction not exceeding the power and jurisdic- 
 tion of a Judge of the District Court at 
 Chambers, or the Legislature may, instead of 
 such election, confer such power and jurisdic- 
 tion upon Judges of Probate in the State. 
 
 ARTICLE VII. 
 Elective Franchise. 
 
 Section 1. Every male person of the age 
 of twentji'-one years or upwards, belonging to 
 either of the following classes, who shall have 
 resided in the United States one year and in 
 this State for four months next preceding any 
 election, shall be entitled to vote at such 
 election, in the election district of which he 
 shall at the time have been for ten days a 
 resident, for all officers that now are or here- 
 after may be elective by the people : 
 
 First. White citizens of the United States. 
 
 Second. White persons of foreign birth, 
 who shall have declared their intention to 
 become citizens, conformably to the laws of 
 the United States upon the subject of natura- 
 lization. 
 
 Third. Persons of mixed white and Indian 
 blood, who have adopted the customs and 
 habits of civilization. 
 
 Fourth. Persons of Indian blood residing 
 in this State, who have adopted the language, 
 customs and habits of civilization, after an 
 examination before any District Court of the 
 State, in such manner as may be provided by 
 law, and shall have been pronounced by said 
 court capable of enjoying the rights of citi- 
 zenship within the State. 
 
 Sec 2. No person not belonging to one of 
 the classes specified in the preceding sec- 
 tion ; no person who has been convicted of 
 treason or any felony, unless restored to civil 
 rights ; and no person under guardianship, or 
 who may be iion compos mentis or insane, 
 shall be entitled or permitted to vote at any 
 election in this State. 
 
 Sec 3. For the purpose of voting, no per- 
 son shall be deemed to have lost a residence 
 by reason of his absence while employed in 
 the service of the United States ; nor while 
 engaged upon the waters of this State or of 
 the United States ; nor while a student of any 
 scmkiary of learning ; nor while kept at any 
 alms-house or other asylum ; nor while con- 
 fined in any public prison. 
 
 Sec. 4. No soldier, seaman, or marine in 
 
APPENDIX. 
 
 613 
 
 the army or navy of the United States, shall 
 be deemed a resident of this State in conse- 
 quence of being stationed within the same. 
 
 Sec. 5. During the day on which any 
 election shall be held, no person shall be ar- 
 rested by virtue of any civil process. 
 
 Sec. 6. All elections shall be by ballot, 
 except for such town officers as may be di- 
 rected by law to be otherwise chosen. 
 
 Sec. 7. Every person who, by the provis- 
 ions of this article shall be entitled to vote at 
 any election, shall be eligible to any office 
 which now is, or hereafter shall be, elective 
 by the people in the district wherein he shall 
 have resided thirty days previous to such 
 election ; except as otherwise provided in this 
 Constitution, or the Constiliution and Laws of 
 the United States. 
 
 ARTICLE Vm. 
 School Funds, Education and Science. 
 
 Section 1. The stability of a republican 
 form of government depending mainly upon 
 the intelligence of the people, it shall be the 
 duty of the Legislature to establish a general 
 and uniform system of public schools. 
 
 Sec 2. The proceeds of such lands as are 
 or hereafter may be granted by the United 
 States for the use of schools within each 
 township in this State, shall remain a perpet- 
 ual school fund to the State, and not more 
 than one-third (1-3) of said lands may be 
 sold in two (2) years, one third (1-3) in five 
 (5) years, and one-third (1-3) in ten (10) 
 years ; but the lands of the greatest valuation 
 shall be sold first, provided that no portion of 
 said lands shall be sold otherwise than at 
 public sale. The principal of all funds aris- 
 ing from sales or other disposition of lands, 
 or other property, granted or entrusted to 
 this State in each township for educational 
 purposes, shall forever be preserved inviolate 
 and undiminished ; and the income arising 
 from the lease or sale of said school lands 
 shall be distributed to the different townships 
 throughout the State, in proportion to the 
 number of scholars in each township between 
 the ages of five and twenty-one years, and 
 shall be faithfully applied to the specific ob- 
 jects of the original grants or appropriations. 
 
 Sec. 3. The Legislature shall make such 
 provisions, by taxation or otherwise, as, with 
 the income arising from the school fund, will 
 secure a thorough and efficient system of 
 
 Public Schools in each township in the 
 State. 
 
 Sec. 4. The location of the University of 
 Minnesota as established by existing laws, is 
 hereby confirmed, and said institution is here- 
 by declared to be the University of the State 
 of Minnesota. AU the rights, immunities, 
 franchises and endowments heretofore grant- 
 ed or confen-ed, are hereby perpetuated unto 
 the said University, and all lands which may 
 be granted hereafter by Congress or other 
 donations for said University purposes shall 
 vest in the institution referred to in this Sec- 
 tion. 
 
 ARTICLE IX. 
 Finances of tJu State, and Banis and Banking. 
 
 Section 1. All taxes to be raised in this 
 State shall be as nearly equal as may be, and 
 all property on which taxes are to be levied 
 shall have a cash valuation, and be equalized 
 and uniform throughout the State. 
 
 Sec 2. The Legislature shall provide for 
 an Annual Tax sufficient to defray the esti- 
 mated expenses of the State for each year ; 
 and whenever it shall happen that such or- 
 dinary expenses of the State for any year 
 shall exceed the income of the State for such 
 year, the Legislature shall provide for levying 
 a tax for the ensuing year sufficient with 
 other sources of income, to pay the deficiency 
 of the preceding year, together with the esti- 
 mated expenses of such ensuing year. 
 
 Sec. 3. Laws shall be passed taxing all 
 moneys, credits, investments in bonds, stocks, 
 joint stock companies, or otherwise, and also 
 all real and personal property, according to 
 its true value in money; but public burying 
 grounds, public school houses, public hospi- 
 tals, academies, colleges, universities, and all 
 seminaries of learning, all churches, church 
 property used for rehgious purposes and 
 houses of worship, institutions of purely pub- 
 Uc charity, public property used exclusively 
 for any pubUc purpose, and personal property 
 to an amount* not exceeding in value two hun- 
 dred dollars for each individual, shall, by gen- 
 eral laws, be exempt from taxation. 
 
 Sec 4. Laws shall be passed for taxing 
 the notes and bills discounted or purchased, 
 moneys loaned, and all other property, effects, 
 or dues of every description, of all banks, 
 and of aU bankers ; so that all property em- 
 ployed in banking shall always be subject to 
 
614 
 
 APPENDIX. 
 
 a taxation equal to that imposed on the pro- 
 perty of individuals. 
 
 Sec. 5. For the purpose of defraying ex- 
 traordinary expenditures, the State may con- 
 tract public debts, but such debts shall never 
 in the aggi-egate exceed two hundred and 
 fifty thousand dollars ; every such debt shall 
 be authorized by law, for some single object 
 to be distinctly specified therein ; and no such 
 law shall take effect until it shall have been 
 passed by the vote of two-thirds of the mem- 
 bers of each branch of the Legislature, to be 
 recorded by yeas and nays on the journals of 
 each House respectively ; and every such law 
 shall levy a tax annually sufficient to pay the 
 annual interest of such debt, and also a tax 
 sufficient to pay the principal of such debt 
 within ten years from the final passage of 
 such law, and shall specially appropriate the 
 proceeds of such taxes to the payment of 
 such principal and interest; and such ap- 
 propriation and taxes shall not be repealed, 
 postponed or diminished until the principal 
 and interest of such debt shall have been 
 wholly paid. The State shall never contract 
 any debts for works of internal improvement, 
 or be a party in carrying on such works, ex- 
 cept in cases where grants of land or other 
 property shall have been made to the State 
 especially dedicated by the grant to specific 
 purposes ; and in such cases the State shall 
 devote thereto the avails of such grants, and 
 may pledge or appropriate the revenues de- 
 rived from such works in aid of their comple- 
 tion. 
 
 Sec. 6. All debts authorized by the pre- 
 ceding section shall be contracted by loan on 
 State bonds of amounts not less than five 
 hundred dollars each, on interest payable 
 within ten years after the final passage of the 
 law authorizing such debt ; and such bonds 
 shall not be sold by the State under par. A 
 correct registry of all such bonds shall be 
 kept by the Treasurer, in numerical order, 
 so as always to exhibit the number and 
 amount unpaid, and to whcm^sevcrally made 
 payable. 
 
 Sec. 7. The State shall never contract 
 any public debt, unless in time of war, to re- 
 pel invasion or suppress insurrection, except 
 in the cases and in the manner provided in the 
 fiftli and sixth sections of this Article. 
 Sec. 8. The money arising from any loan I 
 
 made, or debt or liability contracted, shall be 
 applied to the object specified in the act au- 
 thorizing such debt or liability, and to no 
 other purpose whatever. 
 
 Sec. 9. No money shall ever be paid out 
 of the Treasury of this State, except in pur- 
 suance of an appropriation by law. 
 
 Sec, 10. The credit of the State shall 
 never be given or loaned in aid of any indi- 
 vidual, association or corporation. 
 
 Sec. 11. There shall be published by the 
 Treasurer, in at least one newspaper printed 
 at the seat of Government, during the first 
 week in January of each year, and in the 
 next volume of the Acts of the Legislature, 
 detailed statements of all moneys drawn from 
 the Treasury during the preceding year ; for 
 what purposes, and to whom paid, and by 
 what law authorized ; and also of all moneys 
 received, and by what authority, and from 
 whom. 
 
 Sec. 12. Suitable laws shall be passed by 
 the Legislature for the safe keeping, transfer 
 and disbursement of the State and School 
 fimds, and all oflBcers and other persons 
 charged with the same shall be required to 
 give ample security for all moneys and funds 
 of any kind, to keep an accurate entry of 
 each svaa received, and of each payment and 
 transfer, and if any of said officers or other 
 persons shall convert to his own use in any 
 form, or shall loan with or without interest, 
 contrary to law, or shall deposit in banks, or 
 exchange for other fund, any portion of the 
 funds of the State, every such act shall be 
 adjudged to be an embezzlement of so much 
 of the State funds as shall be thus taken, 
 and shall be declared a felony ; and any fail- 
 ure to pay over or produce the State or 
 School funds intrusted to such persons, on 
 demand, shall be held and taken to hopmna 
 facie evidence of such embezzlement. 
 
 Sec. 13. The Legislature may, by a two- 
 thirds vote, pass a General Banking Law, 
 with the following restrictions and require- 
 ments, viz : 
 
 First. The Legislature shall have no power 
 to pass any law sanctioning in any manner, 
 directly or indirectly, the suspension of spe- 
 cie payments by any person, association or 
 corporation issuing bank notes of any descrip- 
 tion. 
 Second. The Legislature shall provide by 
 
APPENDIX. 
 
 615 
 
 law for the registry of all bills or notes is- 
 sued or put in circulation as money, and shall 
 requu'e ample security in United States stock 
 or State stocks fo| the redemption of the 
 same in specie, and in case of a depreciation 
 of said stocks, or any part thereof, to the 
 amovmt of ten per cent, or more on the dol- 
 lar, the bank or banks owning said stocks 
 shall be required to make up said deficiency 
 by additional stocks. 
 
 Third. The stockholders in any corpora- 
 tion or joint association for banking purposes 
 issuing bank notes, shall be individually lia- 
 ble in an amount equal to double the amount 
 of stock owned by them for the debts of 
 such corporation or association, and such in- 
 dividual liability shall continue for one year 
 after any transfer or sale of stock by any 
 stockholder or stockholders. 
 
 Fourth. In case of the insolvency of any 
 bank or banking association, the billholders 
 thereof shall be entitled to preference in pay- 
 ment over all other creditors of such bank or 
 association. 
 
 Fifth. Any General Banking Law which 
 may be passed in accordance with this article 
 shall provide for recording the names of all 
 stockholders in such corporations, the amount 
 of stock held by each, the time of transfer, 
 and to whom transferred. 
 
 ARTICLE X. 
 0/ Corporations having no Banhing Privileges. 
 
 Section 1. The term " Corporations," as 
 used in this article, shall be construed to in- 
 clude aU associations and joint stock compa- 
 nies having any of the powers and privileges 
 not possessed by individuals or partnerships, 
 except such as embrace banking privileges, 
 and all corporations shall have the right to 
 sue, and shall be liable to be sued in all courts 
 in like manner as natural persons. 
 
 Sec. 2. No corporation shall be formed 
 under special acts, except for municipal pm-- 
 poses. 
 
 Sec. 3. Each stockholder in any corpora- 
 tion shall be liable to the amount of the stock 
 held or owned by him. 
 
 Sec 4. Lands may be taken for public 
 way, for the purpose of granting to any cor- 
 poration the franchise of way for pubUc use. 
 In all cases, however, a fair and equitable 
 compensation shall be paid for such land, and 
 the damages arising from the taking of the 
 
 same ; but all corporations being common 
 carriers, enjoying the right of way in pursu- 
 ance of the provisions of this section, shall 
 be bound to carry the mineral, agricultural 
 and other productions or manufactures on 
 equal and reasonable terms. 
 
 ARTICLE XI. 
 Counties and TovmsMps, 
 
 Section 1. The Legislature may, fi-om 
 time to time, establish and organize new 
 counties, but no new county shall contain 
 less than four hundred square miles ; nor 
 shall any county be reduced below that 
 amount ; and all laws changing county lines 
 in counties already organized, or for removing 
 county seats shall, before taking effect, be 
 submitted to the electors of the coimty or 
 counties to be affected thereby, at the next 
 general election after the passage thereof, and 
 be adopted by a majority of such electors. 
 Counties now established may be enlarged, 
 but not reduced below four hundred (400,) 
 square miles. 
 
 Sec. 2. The Legislature may organize 
 any city into a separate county when it has 
 attained a population of twenty thousand in- 
 habitants, without reference to geographical 
 extent, when a majority of the electors of the 
 county in which such city may be situated, 
 voting thereon, shall be in favor of separate 
 organization. 
 
 Sec. 3. Laws may be passed providing 
 for the organization, for municipal and other 
 town purposes, of any Congressional or frac- 
 tional townships in the several counties in 
 the State, provided that when a township is 
 divided by county lines, or does not contain 
 one hundred mhabitants, it may be attached 
 to one or more adjoining townships or parts 
 of townships, for the purposes aforesaid. 
 
 Sec 4. Provision shall be made by law 
 for the election of such covmty or township 
 officers as may be necessary. 
 
 Sec 5. Any county and tow nship organ- 
 ization shall have such powers of local taxa- 
 tion as may be prescribed by law. 
 
 Sec 6. No money shall be drawn from 
 any county or township treasury except by 
 authority of law. 
 
 ARTICLE XII. 
 Of the JUmUa. 
 
 Section 1. It shall be the duty of the Leg- 
 islature to pass such laws for the organiza- 
 
616 
 
 APPENDIX. 
 
 tion, discipline and service of the Militia of 
 the State, as may be deemed necessary. 
 ARTICLE XIII. 
 Impeachment and Bemoval from Office. 
 Section 1. The Governor, Secretary of 
 State, Treasurer, Auditor, Attorney General 
 and the Judges of the Supreme and District 
 Courts, may be impeached for corrupt con- 
 duct in office, or for crimes and misdemean- 
 ors; but judgment in such case shall not 
 extend further than to removal from office 
 and disqualification to hold and enjoy any 
 office of honor, trust or profit, in this State. 
 The party convicted thereof shall neverthe- 
 less be liable and subject to indictment, trial, 
 judgment and punishment according to law. 
 
 Sec. 2. The Legislature of this State may 
 provide for the removal of inferior officers 
 from office, for malfeasance or nonfeasance in 
 the performance of their duties. 
 
 Sec. 3. No officer shall exercise the duties 
 of his office after he shall have been im- 
 peached and before his acquittal. 
 
 Sec. 4. On the trial of an impeachment 
 against the Governor, the Lieutenant Gover- 
 nor shall not act as a member of the Court. 
 
 Sec 5. No person shall be tried on im- 
 peachment before he shall have been served 
 with a copy thereof at least twenty days pre- 
 vious to the day set for trial. 
 
 ARTICLE XIV. 
 Amendments to the Constitution. 
 Section 1. Whenever a majority of both 
 Houses of the Legislature shall deem it neces- 
 sary to alter or amend this Constitution, they 
 may propose such alterations or amendments, 
 which proposed amendments shall be pub- 
 lished with the laws which have been passed 
 at the same session, and said amendments 
 shall be submitted to the people for their ap- 
 proval or rejection ; and if it shall appear in 
 a manner to be provided by law, that a ma- 
 jority of the voters present and voting shall 
 have ratified such alterations or amendments, 
 the same shall be valid to all intents and pur- 
 poses, as a part of this Constitution. If two 
 or more alterations or amendments shall be 
 submitted at the same time, it shall be so reg- 
 ulated that the voters shall vote for or against 
 each scaparately. 
 
 Sec. 2. Whenever two-thirds of the mem- 
 bers elected to each branch of the Legisla- 
 ture shall think it necessary to call a Conven- 
 
 tion to revise this Constitution, they shall 
 recommend to the electors to vote, at the next 
 election for members of the Legislature, for or 
 against a Convention ; and if a majority of all 
 the electors voting at said election, shall have 
 voted for a Convention, the Legislature shall 
 at their next session provide by law for call- 
 ing the same. The Convention shall consist 
 of as many members as the House of Repre- 
 sentatives, who shall be chosen in the same 
 manner, and shall meet within three months 
 after their election for the purpose aforesaid. 
 ARTICLE XV. 
 Miscellaneous Subjects. 
 Section 1. The seat of government of the 
 State shall be at the city of St. Paul, but the 
 Legislature, at their first or any future ses- 
 sion may provide by law for a change of the 
 seat of government by a vote of the people, 
 or may locate the same upon the land granted 
 by Congress for a seat of Government to the 
 State ; and in the event of the seat of govern- 
 ment being removed from the city of St. Paul 
 to any other place in the State, the Capitol 
 building and grounds shall be dedicated to an 
 institution for the promotion of science, liter- 
 ature and the arts, to be organized by the 
 Legislature of the State, and of which insti- 
 tution the Minnesota Historical |Society shall 
 always be a department. 
 
 Sec 2. Persons residing on Indian lands 
 within this State shall enjoy all the rights and 
 privileges of citizens as though they lived in 
 any other portion of the State, and shall be 
 subject to taxation. 
 
 Sec 3. The Legislature shall provide for 
 a uniform oath or affirmation to be adminis- 
 tered at elections, and no person shall be com- 
 pelled to take any other or diiferent Ibrm of 
 oath to entitle him to vote. 
 
 Sec 4. There shall be a seal of the State, 
 which shall be kept by the Secretary of State, 
 and be used by him officially, and shall be 
 called the Great Seal of the State of Minne- 
 sota, and shall be attached to all official acts 
 of the Governor, (his signature to acts and 
 resolves of the Legislature excepted",) requir- 
 ing authentication. The Legislature shall 
 provide for an appropriate device and motto 
 for said seal. 
 
 Sec 6. The Territorial prison as located 
 under existing laws, shall, after the adoption 
 
APPENDIX. 
 
 617 
 
 of this Constitution, be and remain one of the 
 State Prisons of the State of Minnesota. 
 SCHEDULE. 
 
 Section 1. That no inconvenience may- 
 arise by reason of a change from a Territorial 
 to a permanent State government, it is de- 
 clared that all rights, actions, prosecutions, 
 judgments, claims and contracts, as well of 
 individual as of bodies corporate, shall con- 
 tinue as if no change had taken place ; and all 
 process which may be issued under the author- 
 ity of the Territory of Minnesota previous to 
 its admission into the Union of the United 
 States, shaU be as vahd as if issued in the 
 name of the State. 
 
 Sec. 2. All laws now in force in the Ter- 
 ritory of Minnesota not repugnant to this 
 Constitution, shall remain in force until they 
 expire by their own limitation, or be altered 
 or repealed by the Legislature. 
 
 Sec. 3. All fines, penalties or forfeitures 
 accruing to the Territory of Minnesota, shall 
 inure to the State. 
 
 Sec. 4. All recognizances heretofore taken, 
 or wliich may be taken before the change from 
 Territorial to permanent a State Government 
 shall remain valid, and shall pass to, and may 
 be prosecuted in the name of the State ; and 
 all bonds executed to the Governor of the 
 Territory, or to any other officer or court in 
 his or their official capacity, shall pass to the 
 Governor or State authority and their suc- 
 cessors in office for the uses therein respec- 
 tively expressed, and may be sued for and 
 recovered accordingly ; and all the estate of 
 property, real, 4)ersonal, or mixed, and all 
 judgments, bonds, specialties, choses in ac- 
 tion, and claims and debts of whatsoever des- 
 cription of the Territory of Minnesota, shall 
 inure to and vest in the State of Minnesota, 
 and may be sued for and recovered in the 
 same manner and to the same extent by the 
 State of Minnesota as the same could have 
 been by the Territory of Minnesota. All 
 criminal prosecutions and penal actions which 
 may have arisen or which may arise before the 
 change from a Territorial to a State govern- 
 ment, and which shall then bo pending, shall 
 be prosecuted to judgment and execution in 
 the name of the State. AH offences committed 
 against the laws of the Territory of Minnesota 
 before the change from a Territorial to a State 
 government and which shall not be prosecuted 
 
 before such change may be prosecuted in the 
 name and by the authority of the State of Min- 
 nesota with Uke effect as though such change 
 had not taken place, and all penalties incurred 
 shall remain the same as if this Constitution 
 had not been adopted. All actions at law and 
 suits in equity which may be pending in any 
 of the courts of the Territory of Minnesota at 
 the time of the change from a Territorial to a 
 State government may be continued and trans- 
 ferred to any court of the State which shall 
 have jurisdiction of the subject matter thereof. 
 
 Sec. 5. All Territorial officers, civil and 
 mihtary, now holding their offices under the 
 authority of the United States, or of the Ter- 
 ritory of Minnesota, shall continue to hold and 
 exercise their respective offices until they shall 
 be superseded by the authority of the State. 
 
 Sec 6. The first session of the Legislature 
 of the State of Minnesota shall commence on 
 the first Wednesday of December next, and 
 shall be held at theCapitol in the city of St. Paul. 
 
 Sec 7. The laws regulating the election 
 and quahfication of all district, county and pre- 
 cinct officers shall continue and be in force until 
 the Legislatru*e shall otherwise provide by law. 
 
 Sec 8. The President of the Convention 
 shall, immediately after the adjournment there- 
 of, cause this Constitution to be deposited in 
 the office of the Governor of the Territory ; 
 and if after the submission of the same to a 
 vote of the people, as hereinafter provided, it 
 shall appear that it has been adopted by a 
 vote of the people of the State, then the Gov- 
 ernor shall forward a certified copy of the 
 same together with an abstract of the votes 
 polled for and against the said Constitution, to 
 the President of the United States, to be by him 
 laid before the Congress of the United States. 
 
 Sec 9. For the purposes of the first elec- 
 tion the State shall constitute one district, and 
 shall elect three members to the House of 
 Representatives of the United Sates. 
 
 Sec 10. For the purposes of the first elec- 
 tion for members of the State Senate and the 
 House of Representatives, the State shall be 
 divided into senatorial and representative dis- 
 tricts as follows, viz : first district, Washing- 
 ton county ; second district, Ramsey coimty ; 
 third district, Dakota county ; fourth district, 
 so'much of Hennepin county as lies west of 
 the Mississippi ; fifth district, Rice county ; 
 sixth district, Goodhue county ; seventh dis- 
 
618 
 
 APPENDIX. 
 
 trict, Scott county ; eighth district, Olmsted 
 county ; ninth district, Fillmore county ; tenth 
 district, Houston county; eleventh district, 
 "Winona county ; twelfth district, Wabashaw 
 county ; thirteenth district, Mower and Dodge 
 counties; fourteenth district, Freeborn and 
 Faribault counties; fifteenth district, Steele 
 and Waseca counties ; sixteenth district. Blue 
 Earth and Lesueur counties ; seventeenth dis- 
 trict, Nicollet and Brown counties ; eighteenth 
 district, Sibley, Renville, and McLeod coun- 
 ties; nineteenth district Carver and Wright 
 counties; twentieth district, Benton, Stearns 
 and Meeker counties; twenty-first district, 
 Morrison, Crow Wing and Mille Lac counties ; 
 twenty-second district, Cass, Pembina and 
 Todd counties ; twenty -third district, so much 
 of Hennepin county as lies east of the Missis- 
 sippi ; twenty-fourth district, Sherburne, An- 
 oka and Manomin counties ; twenty -fifth dis- 
 trict, Chisago, Pine and Isanti counties ; twen- 
 ty-sixth district, Buchanan, Carlton, St. Louis, 
 Lake and Itasca counties. 
 
 Sec. 11. The counties of Brown, Steams, 
 Todd, Cass, Pembina and Renville, as applied 
 in the preceding section, shall not be deemed 
 to include any Territory west of the State 
 line, but shall be deemed to include all coun- 
 ties and parts of counties east of said line as 
 were created out of the Territory of either, at 
 the last session of the Legislature. 
 
 Sec. 12. The senators and representatives 
 at the first election shall be apportioned among 
 the several senatorial and representative dis- 
 tricts as follows, to wit : 
 
 Ist District, . . 
 
 . 2 Senators... 
 
 . 8 
 
 Elepre'tives 
 
 2d 
 
 " 
 
 . 3 
 
 '• 
 
 . 6 
 
 " 
 
 8d 
 
 << 
 
 . 2 
 
 (< 
 
 . 5 
 
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 4th 
 
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 5th 
 
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 6th 
 
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 7th 
 
 << 
 
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 8th 
 
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 9th 
 
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 (< 
 
 10th 
 
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 11th 
 
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 12th 
 
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 13th 
 
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 14th 
 
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 15th 
 
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 16th 
 
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 17th 
 
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 18th 
 
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 19th 
 
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 20th 
 
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 22d 
 
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 23d 
 
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 2 
 
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 24th 
 
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 26th 
 
 l< 
 
 
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 26th 
 
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 87 
 
 80 
 
 Sec. 1?. The returns fi-om the twenty- 
 second District shall be made to and can- 
 vassed by the judges of election at the pre- 
 cinct of Otter Tail City. 
 
 Sec. 14. Until the Legislature shall other- 
 wise provide, the State shall be divided into 
 Judicial Districts, as follows : 
 
 The counties of Washington, Chisago, Ma- 
 nomin, Anoka, Pine, Buchanan, Carlton, St. 
 Louis and Lake, shall constitute thefirst Ju- 
 dicial District. 
 
 The county of Ramsey shall constitute the 
 second Judicial District. 
 
 The counties of Houston, Winona, Fillmore, 
 Olmsted and Wabashaw shall constitute the 
 Third Judicial District. 
 
 The counties of Hennepin, Carver, Wright, 
 Meeker, Sherburne, Benton, Stearns, Morri- 
 son, Crow Wing, Mille Lac, Itasca, Pembina, 
 Todd and Cass shall constitute the Fourth Ju- 
 dicial District. 
 
 The counties of Dakota, Goodhue, Scott 
 Rice, Steele, Waseca, Dodge, Mower and 
 Freeborn shall constitute the Fifth Judicial 
 District. 
 
 The counties of Le Seuer, Sibley, Nicollet, 
 Blue Earth, Faribault, McLeod, Renville, 
 Brown, and all other counties in the State not 
 included within the other districts shall con- 
 stitute the Sixth Judicial District. 
 
 Sec. 15. Each of the foregoing enumera- 
 ted Judicial Districts, may, at the first elec- 
 tion, Select one Prosecuting Attorney for the 
 District. 
 
 Sec 16. Upon the second Tuesday, the 
 thirteenth day of October, l§a7, an election 
 shall be held for members of the House of 
 Representatives of the United States, Gover- 
 nor, Lieutenant Governor, Supreme and Dis- 
 trict Judges, and Members of the Legislature, 
 and all other oflBcers designated in this Con- 
 stitution, and also for the submission of this 
 Constitution to the people for their adoption 
 or rejection. 
 
 Sec 17. Upon the day so designated as 
 aforesaid, every free white male inhabitant 
 over the age of twenty-one years, who shall 
 have resided within the limits of the State 
 for ten days previous to the day of said 
 election, may vote for all officers to be elected 
 under this Constitution at such election, and 
 also for or against. the adoption of this Consti- 
 tution. 
 
APPENDIX. 
 
 619 
 
 Sec. 18. In voting for or against the 
 adoption of this Constitution, the words 
 "For Constitution," or "Against Constitu- 
 tion," may be written or printed on the ticket 
 of each voter, but no voter shall vote for or 
 against this Constitution on a separate ballot 
 from that cast by him for oflBcers to be elected 
 »at said election under this Constitution ; and 
 mf upon the canvass of the votes so polled, it 
 shall appear that there was a greater number 
 of votes polled for, than against said Consti- 
 tution, then this Constitution shall be deemed 
 to be adopted as the Constitution of the State 
 of Minnesota; and all the provisions and 
 obligations of this Constitution, and of the 
 Schedule hereunto attached, shall thereafter 
 be valid to all intents and purposes as the 
 Constitution of said State. 
 
 Sec. 19. At said election the polls shall 
 be opened, the election held, rebirns made 
 and certificates issued, in all respect as pro- 
 vided by law for opening, closing, and con- 
 ducting elections, and making returns of the 
 same, except as hereinbefore specified, and 
 excepting also that polls may be opened and 
 elections held at any point or points, in any 
 of the counties where precincts may be estab- 
 lished as provided by law, ten days previous 
 to the day of election, not less than ten miles 
 from the place of voting in any established 
 precinct. 
 
 Sec. 20. It shall be the duty of the judges 
 and clerks of election, in addition to the 
 returns required by law from each precinct, 
 to forward to the Secretary of the Territory 
 by mail immediately after the close of the 
 election, a certified copy of the poU book, 
 containing the name of each person who has 
 voted in the precinct, and the number of votes 
 polled for each person for any office, and the 
 votes polled for or against the adoption of the 
 Constitution. 
 
 Sec. 21. The returns of said election for 
 and against this Constitution, and for all 
 state officers and members of the House o^ 
 Representatives of the United States, shall 
 be made and certificates issued in the man- 
 ner now prescribed bylaw for returning votes 
 given for Delegate to Congress, and the re- 
 turns for all district officers, judicial, legisla- 
 tive or otherwise, shall be made to the regis- 
 ter of deeds of the senior county in each 
 district, in the manner prescribed bv law, 
 
 except as otherwise provided. The returns 
 for all officers elected at large shall be can- 
 vassed by the Governor of the Territory as- 
 sisted by Joseph R. Bbowx and Thomas J. 
 Galbbaith, at the time designated by law for 
 canvassing the vote for Delegate to Congress. 
 Sec. 22. If upon canvassing the votes for 
 and against the adoption of this Constitution, 
 it shall appear that there has been polled a 
 greater number of votes against than for it, 
 then no certificates of election shall be issued 
 for any state or district officer provided for 
 in this]Constitution, and no State organization 
 shall have validity within the limits of the 
 Territory until otherwise provided for, and 
 until a Constitution for a State Govermnent 
 shall have been adopted by the people. 
 
 Done in ConTcntion this twenty-ninth daj of 
 August, one thousand eight hundred and fifty- 
 seven, and of the Independence of the United 
 States the eighty-second year. In witness 
 whereof, we have hereunto subscribed our names, 
 at the Capitol, in the City of St. Paul, this 
 twenty-ninth day of August, in the year of our 
 Lord one thousand eight hundred and fifty- 
 seven. 
 
 St. a. D. BALCOMBE, 
 Prtsident of the Constitutional Convention. 
 Bexj. C. Baldwin, Joseph Peckham, 
 D. M. Hall, Geobge Watsos, 
 
 RoBEBT Ltlb, Chables F. Lowe, 
 
 S. A. Kemp, P. A. Cedebstam, 
 
 William F. Russell, Chables B. Sheldox. 
 N. B. Robbixs, Jb., David Mobgan, 
 Simeon Habdlng, James A. McCasn, 
 W. H. C. FoLSOM, John A. Andebson, 
 "Wentwobth Hayden, A. H. Butleb, 
 
 D. L. King, Chables Hanson, 
 T. D. Smith, Chables A. Coe, 
 Edwin Page Davis, David A. Secombe, 
 Thomas Wilson, John Cleghorn, 
 
 E. N. Bates, Alanson B. Vaughn. 
 John H. Mubpht, Henbt Eschlie, 
 Thomas Bolles, Cybus Aldrich, 
 
 D. D. Dickebson, F. Ayeb, 
 
 Thomas Fosteb, Albebt W. Coombs. 
 
 Le^vis M'Kune, Thos J. GALBBArrn, 
 
 W. J. DuLET, H. W. Hollet, 
 
 R. L. Babtholomew, B. E. Messeb, 
 
 N. P. CoLBUBN, W. H. Mills, 
 
 H. A. Billings, John W. Nobth, 
 
 Aabon G. Hudson, Oscar F. Perkins. 
 
 Chables Gebbish, Samuel W. Putnam. 
 
 Frank Mantob, L. K. Stannabd. 
 
 Amos Coggswell, C. W. Thompson, 
 
 Chas. McClube, L. C. Walker, 
 
 BovD Phelps, Philip Wlnell. 
 
 Attest: L. A. Babcock, 
 Secretary of the ConstUvtional Conveniion. 
 
VOTE UPON THE CONSTITUTION. 
 
 Counties. 
 
 Anoka, 
 
 Benton, 
 
 Blue Earth, 
 
 Brown, 
 
 Carver 
 
 Cass, 
 
 Chisago, 
 
 Cottonwood, - 
 
 Crow Wing, 
 
 Dakota, 
 
 Davis, 
 
 Dodge, 
 
 Faribault, 
 
 Fillmore, 
 
 Freeborn, 
 
 Goodhue, 
 
 Hennepin, 
 
 Houston, 
 
 Isanti, 
 
 Lake, 
 
 Le Sueur, 
 
 Manomin, 
 
 Martin, 
 
 McLeod, 
 
 Meeker, 
 
 Mi He Lac, 
 
 Morrison, 
 
 Mower, 
 
 Murray, 
 
 Nicollet, 
 
 Olmsted, 
 
 Pembina, 
 
 Pierce, 
 
 Pine, 
 
 Ramsey, 
 
 Renville, 
 
 Rice, 
 
 Rock, 
 
 Scott, 
 
 Sherburne, 
 
 Sibley, 
 
 Stearns, 
 
 Steele, 
 
 St. Louis, 
 
 Todd, 
 
 Wabashaw, - 
 
 Waseca, 
 
 Washington, - 
 
 Winona, 
 
 Wright, 
 
 Total, 
 
 Canvasskbs' 
 
 Precinot 
 
 Return. 
 
 Returns. 
 
 For. 
 
 Ag'st. 
 
 For. 
 
 Ag'st. 
 
 477 
 
 10 
 
 477 
 
 10 
 
 295 
 
 3 
 
 295 
 
 3 
 
 
 
 1,090 
 
 29 
 
 "488 
 
 
 488 
 
 
 845 
 
 ""'5 
 
 845 
 
 " "5 
 
 
 
 126 
 
 5 
 
 '•600 
 
 
 600 
 
 
 
 
 73 
 
 ""'3 
 
 "96 
 
 ■"i 
 
 96 
 
 1 
 
 2,010 
 
 6 
 
 2,041 
 35 
 
 6 
 
 
 
 812 
 
 "ie 
 
 '2i9 
 
 "'2 
 
 219 
 
 2 
 
 1,874 
 
 60 
 
 1,874 
 
 60 
 
 635 
 
 3 
 
 635 
 
 3 
 
 1,810 
 
 12 
 
 1,810 
 
 12 
 
 3,662 
 
 70 
 
 3,662 
 
 70 
 
 1,188 
 
 8 
 
 1,188 
 
 8 
 
 19 
 
 
 19 
 
 
 
 
 86 
 
 6 
 
 • 'm 
 
 "87 
 
 819 
 
 87 
 
 113 
 
 
 113 
 31 
 
 
 "206 
 
 
 220 
 
 
 194 
 
 *"i 
 
 194 
 
 '"i 
 
 11 
 
 9 
 
 11 
 
 9 
 
 304 
 
 9 
 
 804 
 
 9 
 
 639 
 
 14 
 
 656 
 66 
 
 14 
 
 
 
 958 
 
 ""io 
 
 l',343 
 
 "'ii 
 
 1,629 
 
 13 
 
 313 
 
 
 313 
 25 
 
 
 "'56 
 
 
 50 
 
 
 2,567 
 
 ""'4 
 
 3,608 
 119 
 
 "'"8 
 
 1^798 
 
 "i4 
 
 1,798 
 
 37 
 
 1,393 
 
 "u 
 
 '943 
 
 ' "9 
 
 "ii 
 
 94 
 
 
 94 
 
 
 668 
 
 '"io 
 
 663 
 
 "io 
 
 354 
 
 14 
 
 354 
 
 14 
 
 C13 
 
 69 
 
 624 
 
 69 
 
 
 
 93 
 
 44 
 
 "i62 
 
 "ii 
 
 102 
 
 11 
 
 583 
 
 10 
 
 889 
 
 10 
 
 609 
 
 84 
 
 509 
 
 34 
 
 1,662 
 
 25 
 
 1,875 
 
 26 
 
 1,362 
 
 8 
 
 1,621 
 
 15 
 
 605 
 
 52 
 
 605 
 
 52 
 
 30,055 ' 571 ' 86,240 
 
 700 
 
 Note. — The vote under ttie beading of the Canvassers' Return is the official count as declared by the Board of 
 Oanvauers designated in the Scliedule. Their return was made tj]) from the returns of the Register, wlio, in several 
 Instances, failed to return the vote for and against the Constitution. The vote under the heading of I'rccinct Returns 
 embraces the whole vote of the State upon the Constitution, and is compiled from tlie Precinct Returns in the Secre 
 tary's office so far as they were received ; and where these returns have failed to shew the full vote, the Register's 
 Canvass has been taken. 
 
ANALYTICAL INDEX 
 
 CONSTITUTION OF MINNESOTA. 
 
 Absence, when not to affect residence for 
 
 ^purpose of voting, 
 Actions, Penal and Civil, on bonds, recog- 
 nizances, forfeiture, &c., to vest in the 
 State, - Schedule 
 
 Adjournment, power on each house on, 
 
 Bills not to be passed on day of, 
 Allodial, all lauds declared to be, 
 Amendments to Constitution, mode of mak- 
 ing. 
 Mode of revising of same 
 Appointments, State Librarian, Notaries 
 Public, Commissioners, etc., how made 
 To fill vacancies in offices, 
 Of Reporter of Supreme Court, and va- 
 cancy m ofiice ot Clerk of same. 
 Apportionment, for Legislative and Con- 
 gressional purposes, when to be made. 
 For Congressional, at first electior, 
 
 SCHEDUBE 
 
 For Legislative, at first election, Schedule 
 Army, standing, in time of peace, prohib- 
 ited, 
 Attainder, bill of prohibited. 
 Attorney General, an executive oflBcer, 
 how chosen. 
 Term of office, salary of first term. 
 Auditor of State, an executive officer, how 
 chosen. 
 Term of office, salary of first term, 
 Bail, shall not be excessive. 
 
 All persons entitled to, exception, 
 Ballot, all elections to be by, exception, 
 Banks, property of, how taxed. 
 Public funds not to be deposited in. 
 Law for chartering may be enacted, with 
 certain restrictions, 
 Bills, rules reOTilating passage of, 
 To be signed by presiding officer of each 
 
 house. 
 Penalty of refusal to sign, 
 How certified to Governor in such case. 
 Not to be passed on day of adjournment, 
 construction of this rale, 
 
 Art. 
 
 Sff. 
 
 7 
 
 3 
 
 
 4 
 
 4 
 
 6 
 
 4 
 
 22 
 
 1 
 
 15 
 
 14 
 
 1 
 
 14 
 
 2 
 
 5 
 
 4 
 
 5 
 
 4 
 
 6 
 
 2 
 
 4 
 
 23 
 
 
 9 
 
 
 12 
 
 1 
 
 14 
 
 1 
 
 11 
 
 5 
 
 1 
 
 5 
 
 5 
 
 5 
 
 1 
 
 5 
 
 5 
 
 1 
 
 5 
 
 1 
 
 7 
 
 7 
 
 6 
 
 9 
 
 4 
 
 9 
 
 12 
 
 9 
 
 13 
 
 4 
 
 20 
 
 4 
 
 21 
 
 4 
 
 21 
 
 4 
 
 21 
 
 4 22 
 
 Bonds of State. See State Debt. 
 Boundary of State, how defined. 
 Bribery, disqualification of persons convic 
 
 ted of. 
 Census, to be taken in 1865, and every ten 
 
 years thereafter, - - 4 
 
 Church, not to be supported by State, 1 
 
 Property of, not exempt from taxation, 9 
 Citizens, rights of, (see Elective Franchise) 15 
 Cities, when may be organized as counties 11 
 Clerk, of Supreme Court, how elected, term 
 of office, vacancy in, - 6 
 
 of Probate Court, - -6 
 
 of District Court, - - 6 
 
 Commissioners of Deeds, how appointed, 5 
 Congress, members, three to be elected. 
 State one district, - Schedule 
 
 Constitution, mode of amending, - 14 
 
 Mode of Revising, - 14 
 
 To be deposited in office of Governor, 
 Schedule 
 A certified copy to be sent to the Presi- 
 dent of the United States, if adopted, 
 Schedule 
 Shall be submitted to vote of people. 
 Schedule 
 Mode of voting on, - Schedule 
 
 Effect of, if adopted - Schedulb 
 
 Effect of, if not adopted. Schedule 
 
 Contracts, obligations of not to be impaired. 
 Corporations, definition of, rights and 
 privileges of. 
 Restrictions, exception. 
 Liability of stockholders in. 
 How lands may be taken for use of. 
 Duties as common carriers. 
 Courts, (see Supreme, District and Probaie 
 Courts) pleadings and proceedings in. 
 Successors of Territorial Courts, Schedule 
 Court Commssioner, jurisdiction, who may 
 
 be. 
 Counties, provisions for forming and chang- 
 ing, seats of justice in, etc. - 11 
 Citieg may be organized as counties, 11 
 
 2 1 
 
 4 15 
 
 16 
 18 
 18 
 22 
 1 11 
 
 1 
 
 2 
 
 3 
 
 4 
 
 4 
 
 6 14 
 4 
 
 6 15 
 
 1 
 2 
 
622 
 
 APPENDIX. 
 
 Counties, election of officers, 
 
 Powers of local taxation, 
 
 How money may be drawn from treasury, 
 
 Territory west of State line, Schedule 
 Crimes, rights of persons charged with. 
 
 Same subject. 
 
 Conviction of, not to work corruption of 
 blood or forfeiture of estate. 
 
 Disqualification of persons convicted ot 
 certain, 
 
 Same subject, 
 Debt, imprisonment for, prohibited, except 
 for fraud in contractmg same. 
 
 Of State, limits of, manner of contract- 
 ing, etc. 
 jyistrict Courts, how composed, number of 
 Judges, how chosen, term of office. 
 
 Jurisdiction, etc. 
 
 Qualification of Judges, compensation 
 not to be diminished, 
 
 Judges ineligible to other officers, votes 
 cast for void — exception. 
 
 Change of district not to vacate office of 
 Judge, 
 
 Clerk of, elective, etc. 
 Districts, for Congressional purposes. 
 Schedule 
 
 For Legislative purposes. Schedule 
 
 Twenty-second District, vote of, where 
 and by whom to be canvassed. Schedule 
 
 For judicial purposes, Schedule 
 
 Each judicial, may elect a Prosecuting 
 Attorney, - Schedule 
 
 Divorces, Legislature prohibited from 
 granting, 
 
 Education. See ScJiool Fund. 
 
 Election, to fill vacancy in Legislature, 
 
 Contested, 
 
 By Legislature, to be viva voce, etc. 
 
 Of executive officers, to whom returns 
 made, and by whom canvassed, etc. 
 
 Election, on day of, arrests in civil cases 
 prohibited. 
 
 All to be by ballot, exception, 
 
 Laws of continued in force, Schedule 
 
 When held for voting on Constitution 
 and election of State officers, Schedule 
 
 Manner of conducting, returns how made, 
 precincts of, exception, ' Schedule 
 
 Duties of officers of, - Schedule 
 
 Provisions relating to returns of the first 
 election, who to canvass votes for of- 
 ficers at large, - Schedule 
 Electors, qualifications of, four classes, 
 
 Persons disqualified from being, 
 
 Residence of not affected by absence, 
 
 Privileged from arrest. 
 
 Who may vote at first election. Schedule 
 Embezzlement, of public funds, what consti- 
 tutes declarea a felony, 
 Enabling Act, accepted, etc. 
 Executive Department of what offices com- 
 posed, and how chosen. 
 
 Terms of office, when to commence and 
 end. 
 
 Members of to take oath of office, 
 Exemption, of property from sale, a certain 
 
 amount to do determined by law, 
 Expost facto Laws, prohibited. 
 Fines, excessive, shall not be imposed. 
 
 Accruing to Territory, to inuro to State, 
 Schedule 
 Government, object of, 
 
 Distribution of powers of Government,— 
 prohibition. 
 Governor, head of Executive department, 
 
 To approve of all lawSj 
 
 To issue writs of election to fill vacancies 
 in Legislature, 
 
 To be onosen by electors of State, 
 
 Art. Sec. 
 
 11 4 
 
 1 12 
 
 6 12 
 6 13 
 
 9 
 10 
 
 13 
 14 
 
 15 
 
 4 28 
 
 4 17 
 4 17 
 4 30 
 
 7 5 
 7 6 
 
 7 
 
 16 
 
 19 
 20 
 
 6 10 
 1 7 
 
 Art. Sec. 
 
 Governor, term of office and qualifications of, 5 3 
 
 To communicate by message to Legisla- 
 ture at each session the condition of 
 the State, etc. - 5 4 
 
 Shall be Commander-in-Chief of, and call 
 out militia, etc. - 5 4 
 
 May require opinion of other Executive 
 o'fficers on subjects relating to their 
 departments, - - 5 4 
 
 May grant reprieves and pardons, ex- 
 ception, - • 5 4 
 
 With Senate, may appoint State Librari- 
 an and Notaries Public, 
 
 May appoint Commissioners of Deeds, 
 
 Has negative on laws. 
 
 May convene Legislature 
 
 Shall see that the Laws are executed. 
 
 May appoint, to till vacancies in certain 
 offices. 
 
 Salary of first term. 
 
 Vacancy in office, office to devolve on 
 Lieut. Governor, 
 
 To appoint to fill vacancy in office of any 
 Judge, 
 Habeas corpus, shall not be suspended, 
 
 exception, 
 Historical Society of Minnesota. See Seat 
 
 of Government. 
 ImpeacTiment, House of Representatives has 
 sole power of. 
 
 Shall be tried by Senate, 
 
 Who liable to. 
 
 Extent of judgment on, 
 
 Liability, to other punishment. 
 
 Person impeached forbidden to exercise 
 duties ot office before acquittal. 
 
 Of Governor, Lieutenant Governor not 
 to sit on trial. 
 
 Copy of, to be served on person before 
 trial, 
 Judiciary Department, powers of vested in 
 
 certain courts, (see Cou?'ts) 
 Judges, other than those provided for in 
 this Constitution, how elected, term of 
 office, 
 
 Vacancy in office of, to be filled by ap- 
 pointment by Governor, 
 Judicial Districts, six created, 
 
 Changes in, not to vacate the office of 
 any Judge, 
 Jurisdiction of State, concurrent on waters 
 
 forming common boundary, 
 Jury, rights of trial by secured, but may 
 be waived. 
 
 4 
 
 14 
 
 4 
 
 14 
 
 13 
 
 1 
 
 13 
 
 1 
 
 13 
 
 1 
 
 13 
 
 13 
 13 
 
 6 
 
 No trial by in Supreme Court, 
 Justices of the Peace, number to be elected 
 in each county, term of office, compen- 
 sation, jurisdiction, — prohibition, 
 Judge of Irobatc, election of, tei in of office, 
 jurisdiction, powers and duties. 
 
 May be Court Commissioner, 
 Lands, all allodial, feudal tenures prohib- 
 ited. 
 
 Leases of agricultural, in certain cases 
 void. 
 
 Of individuals, how taken for use of cor- 
 porations. 
 Laws. — expost fa^to, impairing the obliga- 
 tions of contracts, and bills of attain- 
 der prohibited, 
 
 Must be approved by Governor 
 
 How passea over Governor's veto, 
 
 llow oills to become laws without ap- 
 proval of Governor, 
 
 Style of, 
 
 Must be past by majority elected to both 
 Houses, 
 
 Each law to embrace but one subject, 
 expressed in title^ 
 
 To organize Executive department, 
 
 6 12 
 
 1 15 
 1 15 
 
 10 4 
 
 1 
 
 11 
 
 4 
 
 11 
 
 4 
 
 11 
 
 4 
 
 11 
 
 4 
 
 13 
 
 4 
 
 18 
 
 4 
 
 27 
 
 5 
 
 
 
APPENDIX 
 
 628 
 
 Sec 
 
 11 
 
 12 
 
 2 
 
 7 
 
 1 
 1 
 
 2 
 2 
 
 4 
 
 6 
 
 4 
 
 7 
 
 4 
 
 8 
 
 4 
 
 9 
 
 4 
 
 10 
 
 4 
 
 12 
 
 4 
 
 11 
 
 4 
 
 12 
 
 4 
 
 13 
 
 4 
 
 17 
 
 LoMis, receipts and expenditures be publish- 
 ed with laws, - - 9 
 
 Shall be passed for safe keeping of public 
 moneys, - - 9 
 
 Of Territorv, to remain in force, if not 
 inconsistent with Const' n. Schkdct^ 
 
 Territorial election, continued in force, 
 
 SCHEDULB 
 
 Ltgislative Department, \jQvxya&\%\. of Sen- 
 ate and House of Representatives, 4 
 To meet at seat of government, times of 
 ^ meeting to be prescribed by law, 4 
 Number of members prescribed by law, 4 
 Apportionment and ratio of i epresenta'n. 4 
 Each house to judge of election ratums 
 
 and eligibility of its own membeiS, 4 
 A quorum to do business, - 4 
 
 Each house to determine its rules, 4 
 
 Punishment and expulsion of members, 4 
 Each house to elect its own oflBcers (ex- 
 cept President of Senate), and to keep 
 and publish a Journal, on which yeas 
 and nays (when taken) shall be entered, 4 
 Neither House to adjourn for more than 
 three days without consent of other etc. 
 Pay of members, not to be increased, etc. 
 Members of, privileged from arrest, 
 
 exception, 
 Members of, to hold no other office except 
 
 as Postmaster, 
 Revenue bills to originate in House, 
 Of Governor's veto, etc. 
 Further provisions relat'g to veto power. 
 All money to be appropriated by bill, 
 Style of laws, how passed. 
 Vacancies how filled, contested seats, 
 Disorderly persons, not members, how 
 
 punishe'd, - - 4 18 
 
 Sessions of each House to be open except 
 
 when secrecy requires, - 4 19 
 
 Bills to be read on three difierent days in 
 
 each House, and twice at length, 
 
 before passage, 
 
 Of the signing of bills by presiding ofBcer 
 
 of eachH'se, penalty ot refusal to sign. 
 
 Bills not to be passed on day fixed for 
 
 adjournment. 
 Qualification of members, 
 To elect United States Senators, 
 Legislative Department.to take oath of office 
 All elections by, to be viva voce. 
 First session, when held, Scheditlb 
 
 Librarian of State, how appointed. 
 Lieutenant Governor, an executive officer, 
 when and how elected. 
 Term of office, qualifications, 
 Exrofficio President of Senate, when to 
 
 act as Governor, 
 Compensation of, when office vacated 
 
 how filled, . . . . _ 
 
 Not to sit on trial of impeachment of Gov. 13 
 Lotteries, Legislature not to authorize, 4 
 
 Militia, Legislature pass laws to organize, 12 
 Military, 9,hA\ be subordinato to civilpow'r. ' 
 Municipal Corporations, how created. 
 Money, shall onlj- be appropriated by bill, 
 Shall be specifically applied, , 
 
 Not to be paid out except appropriated 
 
 by law, .... 
 
 Statement of receipts and expenditures 
 
 to be published annually. 
 Public, not to be exchanged for other 
 funds, or deposited in banks, (see £m- 
 bezzlement). 
 Paid out by authority of law. 
 Navigable Waters, free, 
 Name of State, .... 
 Notaries Public, how appointed, 
 Oath, form of, for members and officers of 
 
 Legislature, . . . . 4 29 
 
 4 
 
 20 
 
 4 
 
 21 
 
 4 
 
 22 
 
 4 
 
 25 
 
 4 
 
 26 
 
 4 
 
 29 
 
 4 
 
 30 
 
 
 6 
 
 5 
 
 4 
 
 5 
 
 1 
 
 5 
 
 3 
 
 5 
 
 6 
 
 5 
 
 6 
 
 13 
 
 4 
 
 4 
 
 31 
 
 12 
 
 1 
 
 1 
 
 14 
 
 10 
 
 2 
 
 4 
 
 12 
 
 9 
 
 8 
 
 9 
 
 9 
 
 9 
 
 11 
 
 9 
 
 12 
 
 11 
 
 6 
 
 2 
 
 2 
 
 2 
 
 1 
 
 5 
 
 4 
 
 7 
 
 7 
 
 7 
 
 15 
 
 14 
 
 Oath, form of, for other public officers, - 5 8 
 At elections, to be unifurm, etc. . 15 3 
 
 Office, all electors eligible to, exception, 7 7 
 Cause of removal from, . . 13 1 
 
 Same subject, . . . . 13 2 
 
 Duties of, not to be exercised after im- 
 peachment before acquittal, . 13 3 
 Perjury, disqualification of persons con- 
 victed of, . . . . 4 15 
 Power, political, inherent in people, . 1 1 
 President pro tern, of Senate, when to act 
 
 as Lieutenant Governor, . .56 
 
 Press, liberty of secured, . .13 
 
 Pleadings, in the Courts, to be under direc- 
 tion of Legislature, . . 6 14 
 Probate Court, to be established in each 
 organized county, to be a Court of 
 Record, . . .6 
 Judge of. Clerk of, how chosen, . 6 
 Jurisdiction of, ... 6 
 Judge of, may be Court Opnunissioner, 6 
 Process, style of, ... 6 
 Property, of persons, not to be taken for 
 
 public use, without compensation, 1 13 
 
 Same, compensation made if taken by 
 
 corporations, . . . 10 4 
 
 Of Territory, to vest in State, Schedule 4 
 
 Protest, right of, secured to members of 
 
 Legislature, , . . . . 4 16 
 Proseeutinq Attorney, each judicial district 
 
 may elect one, . . Schedule 15 
 Punishment, not to be cruel or unusual, 1 o 
 
 No person to be put in jeopardy twice for 
 
 the same offence, . ..17 
 
 Of disorderly persons in session of Legis- 
 lature, . . . . 4 13 
 Quorum, a majority of each House of 
 
 Legislature constituted, ..43 
 
 Power of a less number, . .43 
 
 Religion, freedom of, secured, . 1 16 
 
 Licentiousness in, not allowed, . 1 16 
 
 Not a test, as a qualification for office or 
 
 of an elector, . . . 1 17 
 
 Opinion on, not to disqualify any person 
 
 as a witness, . . . . 1 17 
 
 Property of societies of, exempt from 
 
 taxation, .... .93 
 
 Reporter of Supreme Court, by whom 
 
 appointed, . . ... 6 2 
 
 Representation, how apportioned, ratio of, 4 2 
 R^esentatives, (see Legislative Depart- 
 ment) how chosen, term of office, 4 24 
 Residence, for purpose of voting, what not 
 to eflFect, 
 Who do not acquire, 
 Revenne, bills shall originate in House, bat 
 
 Senate may amend, . 
 Rights, political, secured, 
 Natural, secured. 
 To property, character, etc.. 
 Unreasonable searches and seizures pro- 
 hibited. 
 Enumeration of, not to impair others re- 
 tained by the people. 
 Existing, not to be afiected, Scheditlb. 
 Salaries, of members of Legislature, 
 Of executive officers. 
 Of Lieutenant Governor, 
 Of Judges of Supreme and District 
 
 Courts, not to be diminished. 
 Of Probate Judges, 
 Of Clerk of District Court, ■ . 
 
 Of Justice of the Peace, 
 Seal of State, provisions relating to 
 Seat of Government, provisions relating to 15 
 Senators {see Legislative Pepa rt men f) how 
 chosen, term of office, etc.. 
 Of United States, how chosen. 
 Secretary of State, an executive officer, how 
 chosen. 
 
 
 3 
 
 
 4 
 
 
 10 
 
 
 1 
 
 
 2 
 
 
 8 
 
 
 10 
 
 
 16 
 
 . 
 
 1 
 
 
 7 
 
 5 
 
 5 
 
 5 
 
 6 
 
 6 
 
 6 
 
 6 
 
 7 
 
 6 
 
 13 
 
 6 
 
 8 
 
 .5 
 
 4 
 
 15 
 
 1 
 
 4 
 
 24 
 
 4 
 
 26 
 
624 
 
 APPENDIX. 
 
 Secretary of State, term of office, salary, 
 ScJiools, etc., duty of Legislature to establish, 
 
 Of lands for use of, and concerning the 
 school fund, 
 
 Of taxes to support, 
 
 Property of, exempt from taxation. 
 
 Fund of, how kept. 
 Slavery, prohibited, 
 
 teech, liberty of, secured, 
 ite Del t, provisions relating to, . 
 How contracted. 
 In time of war, etc., 
 Credit of State not to be loaned, etc., 
 State Prison, Territorial Prison as located 
 to remain one of the prisons of State, 
 Stockholders, liability of, in banks. 
 
 Same in other corporations, 
 Supreme Court, how organized, jurisdic- 
 tion, powers and duties. 
 To appoint Reporter of its decisions, 
 To appoint Clerk in case of vacancy, 
 Judges of, elected for seven years. 
 Qualifications of Judges, their compen- 
 sation not to be diminished, 
 Judges of, to hold no other office, all votes 
 cast for void, except for a judicial office. 
 Taxation, non-resident property holders 
 not to be taxed higher than resident, 
 For school purposes. 
 To be equal and uniform, property taxed 
 
 to have a cash valuation. 
 For State purposes. 
 What shall be taxed. 
 What shall be exempt, 
 Banks and bankers, how taxed. 
 Powers of counties and townships. 
 Of persons on Indian lands. 
 Terms of Office, of Governor, 
 Of Auditor, Secretary, Treasurer and At- 
 torney-General, 
 
 Art. Bee. 
 
 5 5 
 8 1 
 
 9 3 
 9 12 
 
 9 10 
 
 15 5 
 
 9 13 
 
 10 3 
 
 6 11 
 
 2 
 
 3 
 
 8 
 
 8 
 
 9 
 
 1 
 
 9 
 
 2 
 
 9 
 
 3 
 
 9 
 
 3 
 
 9 
 
 4 
 
 11 
 
 5 
 
 15 
 
 2 
 
 5 
 
 3 
 
 Terms of Office, of Lieutenant-Governor, 
 Of executive office, when to commence 
 
 and end, . 
 
 Of Clerk of Supreme Court, 
 Of Judge of Supreme Court, . 
 Of District Judges, 
 Of Probate Judges, 
 Of Justices of the Peace, 
 Of other Judges, 
 Title, State not to interfere with, when giv- 
 en by Congress, 
 Territoi'ial Officers, continued until super- 
 seded by authority of State, Schedule 
 Towns and Townships, organization of. 
 Election of officers of. 
 Powers of local taxation. 
 Moneys of, how drawn from the treasury. 
 Treason, definition of, proof of. 
 
 Disqualifications of persons convicted of. 
 Treasurer of State, how chosen. 
 Term of office, salary first term. 
 To register State bonds, 
 To publish annually a detailed statement 
 of receipts and expenditures of public 
 money, .... 
 
 University of MinTiesota, provisions re- 
 lating to, ... 
 Property of, exempt from taxation, 
 Veto, of bills by Governor, 
 Of joint resolutions, etc.. 
 Votes, in passingjlaws, entered on Journal, 
 
 Same, in elections by Legislature, 
 Vacancies, in State and other offices, to be 
 filled by appointment by Governor, 
 In offices of Judges, same. 
 Witness, cannot compel person to be against 
 self on a criminal trial, 
 Opinion on religion not to disqualify any 
 person from being. 
 Yeas and Nays. See Votes, 
 
 Art. Be*. 
 
 5 8 
 
 5 7 
 
 6 2 
 6 8 
 6 4 
 
 6 7 
 
 6 8 
 
 6 9 
 
 9 11 
 
 8 
 
 4 
 
 9 
 
 3 
 
 4 
 
 11 
 
 4 
 
 12 
 
 4 
 
 13 
 
 4 
 
 80 
 
 5 
 
 4 
 
 6 
 
 10 
 
 1 
 
 7 
 
 1 
 
 17 
 
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